The daily gazette., 1877-09-27
Interview win General Grant.
HIS TRAVELLING PRosRAAfsE-Hs
TROUBLES WITH MOTLEY AND SUM
NED rrN

Herald, writing from Edinburg, 6cotlan
) under date of September IL, gives an il
terview with General Grant whilst whi.
, zing through Scotland in a Pullman pa
ace car. The ex-President's programm
OF travel, mapped out to continue to SeI
tember, 1878, has already been publishe
and includes visits to Paris, Genoa, di
ferent ports in Spain, Turkey, Egypl
Malta, Sicily, the Grecian Archipelag,
and back TO Paris, in April, 1878; after
wards to Denmark, Sweden, Russia an,
Switzerland, where he will arrive in Sep
tember. 1878. General Grant referred +
the removal of the late j. Lathrop Mot
ley, minister to England, who was ap
pointed at the solicitation of Senate
Sumner shortly before the Senator mad
his violent speech about the Alabami
claims. Said Gen. Grant:
"Mr. Motley had to be instructed. Th'
instructions were prepared very carefully
and after Gov. Fish and had gone owe
them for the last time wrote an adden
dunn charging him that above ali thing
be should handle the subject of the Ala
bama claims with the greatest delicacy
MIR. Motley, instead Of obeying his ex
plicit instructions, deliberately fell il
| line with Mr.. Sumner, and thus addeC
insult to the previous injury. As soon a,
l heard of 1t went over to the State De.
partment and told Governor Fish to dis
miss Motley at once. was very angry
indeed, and have been sorry many a
time since that did not stick to my first
determination. Mr.. Fish advised delay
because OF Summers position in the Sen
ate and attitude on the treaty question
We did not want to stir him up again
just then. We dispatched note of Sc
we're censure TO Metley at once, and or
dered him to abstain from any further
connection with that question. We there
upon commenced negotiations with the
British minister at Washington, and tie
result was The joint high commission and
the Geneva award. l supposed Mr.. Mot
ley would be manly enough to resign af-
ter that snub, but he kept on. until he
was removed. Mr.. Sumner promised me
that he would vote for the treaty. But
when it was first before the Senate he
did all be could to beat it,
Gen. Grant then related the follow
ing incident. about Mr.. Sumner.
"The first time ever saw George
william Curtis he called upon me to
request on behalf of a mum Der of in
huential republicans the reinstatement
OF Mr.. Sumner as chairman of the
committee on foreign affairs. l told
him that If l should go to the Senate
and dictate the organization of the
committees would be apt to hear
something about the fellow who made
fortune by minding his own busi-
nest. said l Certainly should suggest
the idea to any part of the legislative
branch that should undertake TO con-
stTuct my cabinet. gave him distinct
ly to understand that | did not pro-
pose TO Interfere in the matter at all,
even by advice to personal friends
among the Senators,and that thought
MI sumner had not done his duty
as chairman of the committee because
ne had hampered the business of the
stale Department by plgeon-holine
treaties for months. Mr.. Curtis said
that was impossible for Mr.. Sumner
mad onlya short time before told him
that his successor would find a clean
docket and made special claims for
the execution Of the work of the com
mlttee. Knowing. as did the adroit
arguments used among Mr.. Summers
friends, l determined to test the mai
ter OF clean docket. l told Mr.. Curtis
that L had proposed to prove TO him
that his friend Mr.. Sumner had not
told him the facts, and that he made
these statements knowing them to be
falsehoods. Mr.. Curtis was amazed at
my o1er, but assured him that he
had been frequently caught in similar
nlbrepresentations. told Mr. Curtis |
that there We're nine or eleven treat
les before the Senate from the State
that had been there sew
eral months, and had been in Mr.
sumner 8 hauds but had never been
laid before the committee. | wrote
from the spot Long Bralch to the
ot1te department and 10 my own sur
prise there proved to be more treaties
than had said that had been in Mr.. !
summers own hands for longer time
-han L expected. That was the 'cleau
iocket.' When l told Mr.. Curtis about
It and gave him the record he was
rather disappointed. He said it was
remarkable. l told him my object in |
tA'ihS IuS leCOIu bedTcQeu was To |
show him that Mr.. Sumner was not a |
truthful man, as others had found oul
before me, and as had discovered on !
frequent occasions. The work OF that
committee when Mr.. Cameron took
charge was in a most deplorable
state, due entirely to Mr. Summers
persistent obstructiveness and dilatori
ness. had nothing to do with his
dismissal from the chairmausnip of
he foreign relations committee. but
was glad when I'heard that he
was put off, because he stood in the
way of even routine business like
ordinary treaties with small coun-
tries"
In regard to civil service reform Cen
Grant expressed the opiuion that che
theorists have disagreed among themselves
As to its practical application. 1 do not at.
tach much Importance to that matter. do
not believe 1t will succeed, though wish il
could, IN some practical way. Take Schurz
He is making business Of civil service re-
form. But he is a huInbug, and Mr.. Haves
Will lind him out before long 1t is a e1od
hing, bat 1t is hard to app in our country,
II is all very well to say that the business
of office seeking shall be abolished bat the
ofhce seeker cannot easily be abolished.
and the more the theorists onarrel among
themselves the further practical civil service
reform seems to recede.