The New York herald., 1877-11-29

Mr. EDMUSDs-To such extremities have come at
Mr.. THURMAN said II it were u direct vote upon the
question OF seating Mr.. Butler, instead OF vote on
an amendment TO another resolution, he was quite
sure the Vice President would not have the right to
vote In case oil q tic. This was very interesting
question: and he submitted that the provision OF the
constitution that the Vice President shall have no
vote except In case OF tie did not apply TO the seating
o Senator The other provision OF the constitution,
that each House shall be Judge OF the election and
qualification OF It's members lett this matter
tirely III tho hands OF the Senate The question
DO decided by tho Senate itselI. and the Vice Presi
dent could vote IN case OF tie The Wee Prcsl-
dent was not part OF the Senate but simply the
siding officer. He was not elected as a Senator.
Mr.. EDMuSDs said II tho whole OF this affair was
not somewhat extraordinary this latter move would
cap tho climax. However 1t was In keeping with the
whole affair, nothing could be SAID on that point
The constitution provided, without limitation or quail
hcation, that The Vice President shall have tho
ing vote. II desirable Tor this OCCASION however
TO mrar; some qualification limitation, aad that
was that each House shall be the Judge Of the election
and qualifications OF Its own menbers. The consti-
tuition provided that tho Vice President should be
President Of tho Senate and being President
Of The body. he therefore belonged TO IT, II
tho proposition OF the Senator from Ohio be
true tho Vice President could have no vote
on bin anything else The Senate as
one OF the houses OF Congress must agree TO bin
passed by House OF be ore II could
become i law. II the Vice Presiuenl could not vote
In case OF Ito IN matters pertaining 10 the orgaDza
on o. s snS senate them 1y me same sign exactly he
CURED the action OF the House OF Representatives also
upon II.
the Senator from Ohio as 10 the right o the Vice Pres
dent 10 vote came up IN 1850 in the strongest possible
caseone relating to the organization OF the Senate
TO wit IN case Of an election OF chaplain ny ballot
There were two 0candidates-Rcv. Mr.. sheer ana Rev
The Vice President then said the question presented
itsolf MS TO whether he had the right 10 VOTE Mr.
Clay and others replied he had and the Vice President
did vote, no objection being made.
Mr. HoAR read at length from tho journals OF Con-
gress In support OF his argument, and said there
no distinction IN the case oi 1850 the cIcc
Mr. Butler MR SiCer. the
case no hoped The Vice President would not vote Tor
Mr.. Butler uaughtor.l
that tho Wee President should have voted to-day at
all He thought he was rather hasty IN giving tho
vote, and that being SO, all this discussion OF
order the amendment did not receive majority OF
v0tc>, ana therefore WAS lost
Mr.. EATON tdem.) Of Conn., said the action of tho
Senate some twenty-five thirty years ago taken
without thought and without time for examination.
He had no doubt In his own mind that the President
OF the Senate had no power to act la The
OF the Senate.
Mr. CoSKLNd said hc had heard It said that tho oc-
cason arse this moruing when 1t was ueccs-
sary that the Vice President should vote, tor the
reason that the amendment had not received "a ma
jority the therefor fell He would like 10
know whom 1t was that tie vote was not ata to the
Affirmative side.
MIR. EATON replied ho had said no such thing
MIR. ALLISON, (rcp) OF lowa-Suppose the Vice Pres
ident had voted with your
Mr.. EAroS-rhat is a supposition my friend has n o
right to make. We have learned during the last three
days that the suppost,on Is not tenablc. Laughter)
Mr. THURMAN SAID he made the point OF order for
two reasons. ln the hrst place he wanted 70 call tho
attention OF the senate to the question which IN gt
arse Al any time, and in the next place did not
concur IN the views OF some oil his friends TO tho
effect that the Vice President might havo absined
from voting Ii that officer had the right TO vote II
was his duty vote. However, he (Mr. Thurman)
bud all ne desired 10 IN calling tho
OF the Senate to the matter, but as some Senators
thought Sutcient unto the day Is the evil thorcor
he was quite contented to withdraw his challenge
Vice President WHEELER SAID ho had carefully
sdered the question 10 his right to vote In
whore the OF the senate was equally divided aud
he had doubt OF his right After what had fallen
from the Senator from Connecticut (Mr. EatonJ he
would take say that present advised
he would exercise that right In his discretion.
THE sPoPFoRD-KELLooG CASH.
Mr.. SALISBURY submitted u substitute Tor tho reso-
luton OF the committee, recltng at length various
charges made by Judge Sponord against the
officers Louisiana tho Legality OF the Legislature
which elected Kellogg, and that Kellogg himself, when
Governor Joined In illegal acts with such returning
officers, and, therefore, providing Tor the rccommlta
OF the whole question TO the Committee on Privileges
and Ecctons with instructions to SAID committee
TO take testimony in regard to such charges
Mr.. SALISBURY, in support OF his amcndmont, ar
guod that would be an act Of justice to one OF these
contestants to take this testimony, that the Senate
might know all the facts.
Mr. WADLElGV SAID the committee had what seemed
to 1t good rcfsons tor refusing tho request OF Mr..
Spoord to take testimony IN regard to these charges
wnen he made such application 10 the committee as
It would have led 10 further delay and the subjects had
already been thoroughly investigated ny Congressional
committees and was before the committee Oh thou
sands OF pages OF Testimony already taken therefore
they thought It best not to delay the case.
Mr.. HILL said this question had u much more i'm
portant bearing than Senators wefe Inclined give
to IL liz the proposition the Senator from Delaware
should bo refused. the Senate would do groat njus-
ucc to OF the contestants. he (Mr. Hi) charged
here, and tho Senate must hear him. and the country
should hear him, that Judge spoiord appeared before
the committee. and In the presence oi Governor Kc
ogg and the presence OF his counsel, distinct
charges that tho Returning Board counted in members
of the Packard Legislature Tor the purpose OF ccctng
Mr. Kellogg 10 tho Senate, and that alr Kellogg him.
self was one OF the promoters OF Tho fraud that
had TO the Board 10 carry out such raud and
carried Here was Charge that fraud was
committed at the Instance Of Governor Kellogg, and
for The express purpose OF getting up false Leg sa-
ture 10 elect him Senator and this charge was mado
IN tho presence OF Mr.. Kellogg.
Mr. NcMILLES said tho sessions OF the Returning
Board we're all attended by democratic counsel, and
testimony on these charges hat already been taken.
Dir. HILL said he challenged any ono who voted In
the committee against taking testimony to pout 70
any testimony IN all tho Louisiana Investigations
heretofore made bearing upon the points wnicn Judge
sponord alluded TO- wnen Judge spolrord read to the
committee his fourth cnarge as to the com pcity OF
Mr. Kellogg with the Returning Board la illegal acts,
Mr. KoIlogy got up to join issue with HIN, wncn
jectod. Judge sponord did not make his
charge behind the door, but said no could
prove IL, and so far as any testimony having been
Iaken last winter on tho subject OF hs charge Judge
Sponord said the acts had recently come TO his
knowledge. Ho (Mr HilD appealed TO every Senator
the no0r 10 SINK the partisan Tor a moment and
not deny the rignt To TINS contestant TO takc test
mony which no court ON cartn would refuse him.
Mr Kellogg came here now to ciuim The prIcc OF his
iraud he caino here TO ask that this Senate would
give elect to that fraud A committee had been ap-
point Ted 10 exAniu0 A Buch cases ana this
said :"We have taken 80 much testimony about re-
turning boards that we VIII take no more" "
Mr. WApLEIGH said the Field committee took tcstl-
mony on tuis very point.
Mr. HILL the Field committee took testimony
in regard to TIE electoral vote that closed aud
he WAS concerned II snouid be closed forever
Mr.. McDosALD den.) Of Ind, inquired OF the Sena-
tor IRON New Hampshire (Mr Wad,elsh) II he ala not
know that Ine members o tho LOUISIANA Returning
Board refused to TESTIFY before the House committee
ana not summoned before the senate ittco
last winter.
Mr. MCMILLAN said they wore examined by the Field
committee.
Sir. HILL, resumng, called upon any Senator put
his hand upon any testimony already taken 10 Mr.
kolioggs ccmpllcity witn the Returning Board, as
Judge SpoiIord offered 20 prove.
MT NcMILlAS-It wouid bc difficult to prove a fact
which never existed.
Mr.. Hiis-Did anybody before ever hear a judge tell
party asking leave to present testimony, "Wny you
can't provo that, even II gave you permission ~ Adj
dressing Mr.. Mcmillan, ho said 'How do you Know
II never occurrcdf We're you down therefr (Laugh-
tori.
Mr. MCMILLAN Il was there Tor long tmo.
Mr.. HlLL-Well, did NOT know that telorc. We
Will investigate you. (ipnewed iaughtcr.5
Continuing his remarks he said :--scnators should