The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, 1877-10-12

against everybody who got safes from him then
to recover the money for them.
Cam YOU give an apnrG2Nimate Idea on tho
small and large, while you Were in powcr2 A.
1 do not know that l can. have never ng-
Q.-Would it not bc nearer sixty millions than
six millionsY Al do not know. You ought
for ilnding out, access to papers. and so forth.
than have.
Q.-Wcll, what would be your judgments A.
| should think not. hut ! could not give any
thing like an approximate idea Of the amount.
BIG RINGS AND LITTLE RINGS.
Q.-Is II not n fact that besides the large Ring
th"rc were .sundry little Rings. wheels within
wheels. all bent upon fraud Al have already
stated that such wgs the fact.
Q.-They .arrlcd ON the business on thcir own
Q-Who we're they composed Of? Aldo not
know th"m all. There were Watson, Wood
ward. and Ingerson. who were in them. That's
all rcmcmhcr now. II YOU will mention any
names that will bring them to my mind | Will
answer about them to the best Of my ability. hut
do not profess to carry in. my head everything
ever did and everything ever know.
Q-DOnt you think IT possible for You to l"t
Us know. before you close your testimony, who
the mon were that for SO many years dcfrnudcd
the citizens Of New York out of their franchises
Al will give any information can on any
point know anything about IT,,
Alderman COWing being desired to put his
pu stion formally that IL might he reduced To
writing for the witness who WIS req9cstcdto re,
fresh his memory " on II. he said. understood
Mr.. Tweed to say that II was customary. under ut
least a portion III his rule. tina, he gave instruc-
ton- t. certain leaders in certain districts Of the
city not to count tho votes. hut To lamp them SO
IA to hc uniformly successful now ASK him
To cndcavor Ia remember those men To- whom
such instructions were given, and who followed
them. II Il my desire to know If we still have
any Of them in this city. 50 that there shall be 20
more Of these frauds.
could and desired lists of the members OF the
several political organizations 10 qid him in re-
Wondering them, though he could not profess
10 lc able to recall all of those thus implicated
Oily Alderman Cowinel-Tho reason you
did not sooner make public this statement 10
the Attorney GENERAL YOU have said. was HAT
YOU were advised 10y counsel not to do so Who
present counsel advised me not to give IL to the
proper explanations and mado OF such use To
/ the city ~ It was Intended TO be.
CARNEY. ISGERsoLL. AND OTHERS.
! QIs it the fact that Mr. Garycy did work in
/ the houses Of many private cltiHns whl'h WIS
paid for 10y the city AL don't know OF n, ny y
great deal Of work for me. and | paid him a
great deal of money for doing 1t.
! Odd not Mr.. ingcrsoll furnish provisions
! in large amounts to private citllen~. which were
/ paid for 10y the ctyy Al don't know that he
did He never gave me- any provisions. except
J perhaps dinner now and then, or an apple
somctimcs didn't know he was IN the pro-
/ vision business.
! Co. had some dealings with you in the station
cry business. Do YOU know the names Of the
mnGmeSSrs Of that firm uA', An H. not; IN ,,o,
FIRM Al don't know. | don't think ever
knew any man OF that name.
Do You know II man named Nelson was
in that firm Al do not. | never knew any
body ~ that name connected with L. W. Roe
Then Mr. Townsend suggested that Ingorson
/ Davidson. and other persons whose names had
been mentioned. parties to some of the frau NJ
a- witnesses and WIS assured hy the comm ito,
/ That they would not h' iorg ottcn or neglect !