The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1876-04-01

Q Was any other member Of the Presidents house
bold implicated. General Babcocks A. General
Babeock and Colonel Luckey don't think Colonel
Luckey had anything TO do with the whskey matter;
never tie slightest evidence Ut IL
Then, as understand IT. you. Babcock, Bradley
ana Luckcy we're the parties TO the schcineY A. Yes,
sir
q And tho only partcss A. The only parties; I
don't consider bis counsel as parties.
Did you never see any other person in the Presid
cnts house. with reference TO this matter save General
Babcock and Mr. Luckcyy A. l don't think l ever
spoke TO General Baocoek about Il N the Presidents
mansion generally met him at his residence or at
his rooms on Pennsylvania avenue, went there
openly.
q. DO you know anything about the publication of
the Attorney Generals instructions TO the District
Attorneys A. Nothing whatever; | had nothing to
do with the Attorney Generals office after about tho
hrst OF the year.
Q. You never saw the written instructions that tho
Attorney General had prepared Tor you when you
about them only what no stated 10 me, that he had
prepared them; that at his residence Vermont
avenue; met him there once twice
Y. How did you happen 10 be Ut ST. Louis when Mr.
Luckey came out thercy A. lived there temporarily
Q. Did you 20 to Mr. Luckey, or did he come 10
see your A. I went Avery, and Luckey was
there; knew him previously
q How did these negotiations commence between
you and Luckeyy A. ON account OF my negotiations
and interviews with Avery: Avery had been good
friend OF mne In the dcpartm snt, and at that time
believed him 70 be innocent and always believed SO
until ne made statement To me at the Lindell Hotel
just before he was convicted
PROMISES PAY
u was tnerc any bargain between you and Luckey
what you were TO receive in case you got that
evidences A. No sir; ] made no bargain with him
whatever.
q Did he ever make you any promise as to what
they would pays A. He did not. Before he left ST.
Louis he said that Of course would be very Literally
paid; told HIM did care for that
q Did Babcock make you any promise IN regard to
ity a. Not there he did here he said would be lib
orally paid II | got the evidence of; It was not so
much that was working IN his interest that l
garded tho whole matter as a political move at that
time, and desired to my old commander II
could; have very little acquaintance with General
Babcock, and had no special interest sympathy
with him.
Q. DO you think that II General Babcock had been
an innocent man he would have wanted you 10 take
those papers and destroy themY A. Well | have re-
ilcctad on that matter great deal; he stated to mo
that his letters capable OF double construction
and thought that man in familiar correspondence
might write letters that could be misconstrued;
knew that very innocent expression conversation
Is sometimes misconstrued TO mean something very
different IRON what intended but there seemed
DO great deal OF th!s-oo many OF these misconstruc
tons.
.. Did he ever tell you any particular thing that
he wanted you to get A. Ancr spoke to him about
the dispatches signed "Buinch" or "B. F,nch" he
said he did not think he had anything with
that signature that quarter but he wanted ali there
was everything
O You were to take these bodily from the District
Attorneys Officer A. That the understanding.
= And they were to be Destroyer A Yes but
never agreed ut
boss sHspHxRD's NORTHUMBERLAND
Mr.. Blackburn-Do you know who Bradley isS A.
believe he is brother n-law OF Mr.. A. Il. Shepherd
here; he was sent out there just to DO tho watch
as he explained to me; he acting as one OF the
counsel, suppose.
q Have you detailed fully the interviews that &C.
CURED between you aud Luckcy ST. Louis relative
to your employment for the purpose which you have
indicatedy A. ! think have he stated TO me that
General Babcock was innocent; that II was simply
blow at the ''od man, and felt SO myself ut the
time
q. Whom did he mean by the ''old man, +" and whom
did you mean? A. The President
Q. Mr.. Luckcy said that General Babcock was inno-
cent and yet they wanted your get
papers out OF the District Attorneys office That
Is what Bradley proposed. Luckey told to consult
with him. He told Inc 10 get out all tho evidence there
was
Q Did Lucky tell you the same thingi A. Not at
that time
Q Did he not at some time tell you that they wanted
TO make away with certain proofs A. don't think
II camc up exactly IN that shape but II ntmated.
DID Luckey tell you In these. conversations any
thing about Secretary Bristow his connection with
the prosecu.ony A. There WAS grea. deal Of con;
the conversation tended that way at that time; Mr..
Bristows agency was more ntimated in the DulK Of
the conversation than expressed; II put IN this
way:-"This Is simply blow at the old man. the
President"
q. blow from whoms A. That was understood
from Brlsow, because Bristows trends are very
Jealous there.
A nnIsrow MOVEMENT
@ The question between Mr.. Luckey aud yourself
was A. tinterrppting)I understood it a a Bris.ow
movement in the start
through General nabcoct Thai she vbs s.sss
was IN the interest OF General Bristow.
q Did you learn from conversation with Bxbcock
that that was his view Of the mattsrf. A. Oh most
assuredy.
Q Did he tell you thats A. Yes, sir; TINT talked
several times.
@ Then Il is true that all the friends of General
BaDcock that you werc In consultation with advanced
that vew-that Il WAS war waged by Secretary Bris-
tow through General Babcock on General GrantY A.
That was It, and that was the reason went into It at
the start.
O. Do you know who sent Mr.. Bradley theref A.
He told me that General Babcock sent him.
Q. Did Mr.. Shepherd have anything do with III
A. never heard his name mentioned In ths
Q Did you ever have any conversation with the
President about this matter other than what you
detailedy A. had three or four interviews with the
President; up to the time l had my last Interview
was firmly Of the belief that Babcock was innocent.
O. In any Of the interviews that you had with the
President did you lcarn from him you did from
this prosecution that they did? The President
very rctcsnt he said very Titles no only went that
If Babcock was innocent he did not wish to see him
prosecuted; he seemed TO make personal matter
regard to General Babcock, but did not TO have
any bias whatever in regard to himself
Y. Was there ever anything that TRANSFERRED be-
tween you and the President 10 show that he shared
the same opinion that those other gentlemen ex-
pressed TO you in reference to Mr.. Bristows
A. No. sir.
PRESUMPTION or BABcocK's GUILT
Mr.. koBBSs-The remark OF General Babcock that
Bulnnch" to that quarter lead you INFER that he
had sent such kilograms 10 some quarter
4. Yes, most assuredly II was understood.
@ There systematical contrivancc on the
part OF the indicted man TO suppress the testimony
against hun?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he suppress . portion Of ~ A. Yes,
understood; don't know Of my own knowledge
@ You supposed IRON the Kuowlodged you derived
from him and his friends a. 10 tue tracks he wished
covered and tho evidence no wished suppressed that
ne was unquestonabiy guilty II all the facts were
known A. That Is the way understood It; don't
think he had any delicacy IN regard 10 my thinking
SO; there seemed to be dual feeling In tho matter
the President had line Of feeling and they another
q You do not think tho President had any to
do with this attempt 10 cover up ths tracks A. Not
at al.
On crossexamination by Mr. Danford the witness
stated that no had communicated to Colonel Dyer
pending tho Babcock trial, everything now given TO
the committee, and that no understood that nc
have been called rcbutial II Luckey and other
witness, whose name was not mentioned. had been
called Tor Babcock but as they were not called neither
was he.
BY Mr.. Danford-Does that article In the HERALD
state that you engaged 10 act as Spy on Colonel
DYER A. IL did.
WHAT CHANDLER KNEW
Q-Do you not think that Secretary Chandler did
exactly right In dsmissing you theny A. Now you
have asked plain question, and will tell you that
Mr.. Chandler knew exactly what employed for;