The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, 1876-04-29

on the question as TO the oueninV and closing OF
The presiding oticer said the gentleman was
not In order an order Of the Senate cOuiu MOI
Mr. Ednunds said the Managers could move
20 set aside the order as IN any court
Mr.. Lord moved to rescind the order ana sara
Mr.. Hoar would speak Tor the M"uageIs vi "e-
half Of the motion.
on THE ORDER OF ARGUMENT.
Mr. Hoar said he had not exceeded that thls
question would arise at this point. ne uhuer-
stood that the rules Of proceeding upon I'M
peachment were not governed 10y the PRINCIPLES
aud precedents Of ordinary criminal courts,
though the House Of Lords or the senate, sit
ting ne n court " impeachment, undoubtedly
derived great hight from them In applications Of
ptiuciples of common Justice aud Of lag. Still,
il was a uroceedlng which stood on its own con-
stitutional ground. II was IN investigation into
the guilt of great putic Offenders VINO abused
their official trusts by the legislative bodies
of the country, aud In that investigd-
tion. 6s everywhere else. those legislative
American Conrrcss stood as n sutton at the bar
OF the other, Neither branch OF the British
i.Il."in'i . S,u"u az "Nult"t u, tue puI ~ tho
ether; hut the concurrent judgment Of the two
branches was necessary t. an impeachment
Just u.s. II was TO AN act Of legislation. In the
English Pntlianent a bill was brought to he
har OF the House OF Lords and the assent II the
Lords requested thereto. ANA in the same way
great public offender was brought to tine House
81 Lords 80 that his quit might he ascertained.
II was an absolutely settled principle Of right
that upun all questions which arose IN the
Of Commons had the right to reply. This was
right which had existed In England unques-
toned for 900 years. and which had been IN
variahlv recognized In all cases Of impeachment
that had teen conducted 10y the An erican Con
gtess. lie also wished the Court to remember
that IN this matter the Man gers really un-
dertook the Affirmation Of the issue. IL
was true the respondent had interposed
what he called a plea to the jurisdiction,
and that the tursdictional question had cen
ratscd by making an issue on that plea But
that was matter Of form aud not of substance.
o. al adj IN mt al
plea of not guilty the question Of the jursdio-
Ton OF tue senate would nave been Involved IN
the nnal vote upon that question, so that hy tho
logic OF ordinary practice they were brought To
the same result as they would he II II were not a
question simply OF The urerogative OF tue House.
MIR. Mcdonald Of Indiana moved that the vote
nv which the order In regard TO the order Of dis.
cussion IN the question of jurisdiction was pass
MATT CAHpENrrRs RUrLY.
Mr.. Carpenter said that from the course Of ar
gImeut of the Managers, the counsel for the
defence were very much IN doubt whether they
mad any concern at all m this business. Ii
seemed to be rather conference between the
two Houses than an Impeachment eding.
rncy had lust been informed nv the Man v,rs
that they had been tried ard convicted,
and that the Managers had brought the
judgment already arrived Il for ne cone urrence
Of the senate, and the onlN remaining question
was Us to how AMI In what form the Senate
should concur In that Judgment IL was simply
a qutsuon ~ practice betW cen the two HOUSES,
IN winch the defence had no interest on tue
merits OF the motion to re-cin1. Twenty. i've
Arars lfaftlCt Ia the courts liu convinced him
that It wss safe To leave a court TO Nudicatc us
own orders. After Tins court had made an or
der the defence assumed that that order would
oe adhered to. In the next place. Whatever
might he tue urccedents In the House of lords.
they had the authority Of no less distinguished
gentleman than Mr.. HOar for saving that these
were not applicable to a thai OF impeachment
under our Constitution. lie having taken tnat
ground In the House OF Re- reseutativcs, was 1t
possible that where the Constitution said the
accused was TO have n trial ami the House OF
Representative presented itself In the senate
a. an accuser. that the House became part II
tue court, ana were entitled to any favor u
which the accused was not euttledY
The rule uniformly adopted by all courts
OF Jaw was rule which experience
mad determined to be wise aud proper,
and was the rulc which the Senate lad
now ordered for THIS trial. Mas It deslred ny
the House Managers that the ordinary course OF
Justice should be changed for this tri aud that
and that they should tc borne down by Oppres
sNe prcccdents II tue House OF Lofdsf
Mr.. Hudr SAID that VI I. Carpenter Was mistaken
IN regard 90 the ground he MI IL arr had taken
In the House Of Representatives. and spoke In
Siuruu II tue motion OF the senator from
Nr. Howe moved that the Senate. sitting as a
CONT OF Impeachment, adjourn till tomorrow
Mr.. Cameron II owed to amend by making II
read NJ nd,v, At l23O o'clock. Lost.
Mr. iiowes motion was rejected-yeas, ,! (;
NJ. { meron moved to adjourn until Monday
at l2;3J o'clock.
The tresdins officer said the motion was not
IN order, having been already voted upon.
NJ. Cameron said he should make his motion
then i've minutes later. VIZ, that the Court ad-
JoIru unitl l-.sJ Gel ok on honcaN. which was
ags eed to- aud the ; ulte, situfru a> a Court OF
lmpeaontueut, at j.8u adjourned until Monday.
THE CONFERENCE.
In the private conference 81 the senate thl.
afternoon, Nr. Thurman IA we'd a. substitute
for Mr. I"nkilugs res solution offered Ia open
session tue following:
NJ is'a,s oi fact rca'inr 10 question Of jaTisdc.
tou. and .fer hearing dee same Nu INa time for tue
bearing II TIC argument upon thr questions VI Law anu
f-ct relating TO such llrisiictiOn.
Alter the debate this was rejected and Mr..
Conkiing's amended resolution, as aiterward
re1l 10 upeu court, was agreed TO.
ANllus by ~tuaturs Anthony md Burnside to
amend the &c solution Tor an adjournment OF the
court lutil the fth II NAV. 50 as t. make the
date May - ur May l6. were rejected uy very
large uiul1ilties, ana IA ltlon by Mr.. Howe To
sdJourh uuti NAV was 'lsO rejected by yea
L M m NM M IL.