The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1876-04-28


the Attorney General in 1871, and proceeding TO
say tina, yc be had expended 50 900 OF his own
money and for this he had vouchers.
SIR. cochraue nterrupting, SAID he desired the wit
conanc himself 10 the question asked Witness
replied that the statement TO his S. 600 expended
necessary preliminary to what follow, because
the $1,000 might turn up afterward, and some
question might be raised in reference to IT, He then
explained that in 1871 he received in all So 900
from the Attorney General the first payment Of $1,000
having been made In August OF tina. year; In 1872 he
received 800 900; in 1873 $4,000 and in 1874 $4,000,
making lin all the OF ss4 O0c and for tho expend-
ture OF which he had receipts
Witness asked what he had done previous to
August, 1871, authorize him 10 the money
then sent 10 him. He replied by exhibiting series Of
books which he had prepared for the purpose Of do
tecting frauds One series what he called black
books the others were complete lists Of the registra
ton, arranged SO that any namo could be readily
reached and another series maps OF the city ndi
eating every house. for what II was occupied how
many stories high each house and how many males
1t could possibly accommodate Before receiving
the OF S. 900 no had spent Of money
OF his pocket. This expended tor books
papers and labor OF a clerical character Money was
also expended in the detection Of frauds as for in
stance he discovered where large number Of fraudu-
had to be used TO secure them.
BY Mr. Conger-As understand you then you had
incurred large expenses prior TO August 1871 and as
the expenses were growing on you you went to Long
Branch sea the President ask him If part OF the
fund could not be used continue the work
Wtness-rhat is II exactly.
BY Mr.. Candler-Did you at that time inform the
President that this expense had been incurreds
Witness replied he had explained the matter to the
a. IN ynnV
Branch with him to show the President the class OF
work ho doin4 the money was gwen TO him
therefore pay expenses that had been incurred the
past and such as would DO incurred the future:
the money pay for work actually dono and not
for information; whatever was paid for Information
paid out OF witness own pocket.
BY Mr.. Cochrane-Did you always indicate on your
checks the purpose for which it givcns A. did
not.
O find here q check paid to Mr.. Pavey Who is
Mr. Pavcys A. He was q clerk In my office; the check
TO HIM was to pay the clerks under him in his room;
witness employed all the clerks, but they
der Pavey's direction the check for their pay was
given to him In bnlk.
BY Mr. Conger-Did the President Mt tho
time Of your conversation with him at Long
Branch, at any time thereafter, in any
shape say that any portion of
this money to DO used for political pu rposes
A. He did not; he understood that 1t Was to be used
in detection Of frauds elections. and to result In
faithful execution of laws When tho plan
planned to Governor Fish he said he had examined the
plans to prevent frauds and thought Mr. Davenport's
plan better than any he had seen.
BY Mr. Cochrane-Was this extra work done by you
under any authority Of the acts o. 1871 1872 any
other law Witness replied that. after examination,
he found that In order to proper detection of fraud
necessary that one man should devote his whole
attention to tho subject for the purpose OF detecting
fraud, especially three tour devong all
their time to the preparation Of fraud; he found Il
necessary do this extra work. for the law directed
the detection OF Frauds but did not lay down the plan
@ You admit then, that in this extra work you went
beyond tho laws of 1871 and 1927 A. admit that
the preparation OF those books and the other extra
work not specifically contemplated by these acts
Q Was the work contemplated by any net OF Con-
gross? A. No, sir but it grew out Of tho necessities
Of the case deemed all these books necessary; for
instance, take convict book, which had recorded
the Of all convcts, tho time they served In tho
Penitcntiary and other matters by which they
prevented from voting; in tho Of Teronce Quinn,
for instance; It was found that he a convict
Mr.. Durham (interruptipg) objected TO tho witness
going that matter again in detail Ho had already
told the committee of Qunn's case.
Mr.. Conger thought the witness answering in a
witness whenever he going 70 show how he
exposed frauds
Mr.. Durham thought that remark unfair He dun
ham) was ms fair as any man. but he would stop the
witness whenever he wandered OF from the question.
Witness produced what he called his convict book
and described II.
by Mr. Cochrane-Is there any account Of Congress
authorizing that books witncss-No, SIR
Q Then IL is your own idea, and you got It up bo-
you thought necessary Witness replied that
he know Law which in precise terms directed the
making OF such hook, but he found It necessary 70
prevent fraud; he had also book in which he
corded the OF males In New York this also
TO prevent fraud.
Q. Was there any law authorizing that books wit
said he discovered that large number Of persons
registered and voted tho Of dead men;
therefore necessity, but he know Of statute that
specifically authorized It.
O Do you know of any statute that implicitly author
ICES its Witness knew OF authority except that
clause of the law which makes tho duty Of the Com
missioner 70 all possible in the detection
and prevention Of election frauds
@ Do you know of any statute that gives q Commits
discretion to prepare books like these and
do extra work. Witness knew Of no such law except
such implied; but the President, tho Attorney
General and the witness, after a full consultation,
thought that this extra work was necessary
BY Mr.. Conger-was not the appropriation out Of
which this money paid made to detect frauds In
elections leaving its disbursement to tho discretion or
the Attorney 'scneraly Witness replied that It WAS,
IL because Of the discretion that the President
and Attorney General authorized It. In reply 10 Mr.
Wait witness further said that his books had accom-
plshcd the object at which he AIMED, and democrats
as wcl as republicans conceded that fact.
Mr. Durham wanted witness to any democrats
who had approved of his mode OF detecting the frauds
and witness namcl Colonel J. r. Fellows, Isaac shcr-
man (wno a Greeley man, james W. Brown
and Foster Dewey late private secretary TO William NJ
Tweed Dewey told witness in the Hoffman House
not long ago
I'VE, In New York. know what your system has
DONE and II any proposes TO buck up against IT, It
will not DO New York democrats"
Witness did not pretend to say that the democrats