Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1876-03-04
The District "Real Estate Pools
Ihe IHrcstigatiOn Commenced.
ny ktiOOurn Declines 10 Furnish
His Rocks and Papers, Except ON
Certain Conditions

7
| estate pool ves commenced by the select
| committee recently appointed by the House
| for hat purpose, this morning. After short
private session the committee, at l1:30 o'cpk,
| opened their doors, being in session in the
| rooms of the Committee on Mines and Min
ing. Hallett kilbOurn, &C cOm panied by his
counsel, Judg e jeremiah Black, Mr.. Hillyer
OF California, Columbus Alexander, Colonel
Robert Christy, and several other persons,
and A. III. Smith. of the committee.
Mr.. New, OF the committee, asked Mr.. Kill
bourn If he had with him the books, records,
papers, &C., called for by the committee.
Mr.. KILBoUBN SAID
| he did not bring up anything, and If he
involve the transactions of the firm with
| verybody. He said, however, that he
| thought he would come up and ask what par
| tIrular papers were wanted.
Judge Black, counsel for Mr.. Kilbourn,
| then explained to the committee the pre-
vlous investigation OF this alleged real es-
| tate pool, and that it was not SHOWN that
any officer of the District government was
| connected with the pool"
| Mr.. New asked lift was not proven that
EX-GOVERNOR COOK
| was ore of the parties interested?
Judge Black answered that Governor
| Cooke told the committee the whole story of
| his connection with the matter, but that Mr..
Knbourn, being trustee for Others, refused
| TO divulge who he was trustee for. The other
| side failed to show that the spool, was con-
nected with any public interest. While the
| joint committee Investigating District af-
| fairs never announced their opinion why
| they declined TO make Mr.. Kllbourn an
swer, they had, in the language of Mr.. LIN
| coin, allowed IL to "peter out"
| Mr.. New said it would be better TO have
| Mr.. kilbourn sworn, so that the record
showing that he refused 10 answer would be
MR.. KILBOURN REFUSES TO PRODUCE HIS
| BOOKS, ETC,
| MI. kllbOurn was then sworn and refused
| TO present the papers, records and books,
called for by the committee as at present
| advised. He said he was not conscious OF
| having violated any law and that he claimed
| the light to be protected from being required
| To expose his private nTsiness and that OF
Others whom he did business for. He was still
! member of the firm OF KilbOurn & Latta,
| in which Mr.. j. NJ. Olmestead was now
| interested. Mr.. Kilbourn further stated that
| IL any one could make any accusation or
| affidavit against him that there was any
| fraud committed by them they would 81 We
| the committee all the books called for. He
| wanted the affidavit TO be made by some
| responsible person.
| Judge Black then argued at some length
| that the committee had 10 juriS 1ictiOa in
| this matter, and that an opinion had recent
| ~ been delivered in court in Philadelphia
that the cOllatcrals on hand would satisfy
| the claims OF the government, and that they
/ would not loose anything by the failure of
| Jay Cooke & Co. He argued that the COM
| nlittee had no right to make this iuvestiga-
| ton unless it was charged that there was
| fraud OF some kind, and that the government
would lose by it. Ii this was charged was
| this the proper proceeding? He did not think
! that any legislation was needed, and that the
! courts were the only place to settle this.
A general conversation then followed be-
| tween the several members of the committee
| and Judge Black in regard to the powers OF
a special committee. Judge Black said he
was willing to admit that the powers Of
broad, but he said there must be some limit
ln asking Tor papers OF private character.
II any paper OF a public character is called
| for, the committee has risat TO demand it;
but II was tyTannica!, wicked AID Culswaui
| 10 demand the production Of paper o. phi
vate lntereso Oily. mans no Is n9t m2-e
protected by the Constitution thal his pri-
vate papers. Judge Black said he admitted
| that the firm of Jay Cooke x Co: was IN
| debted to the government; but as there were
no allegations of fraud, and as the matter IS
how undergoing adjudication in the courts,
a committee of Congress has no right TO in
terfere. Had fraud against any governmel At
officer been charged, undoubtedly the corn
mittee had the desired power. There Were
| no cases on record where Congress has al.
| tempted 10 bring private papers before a
committee OF Congress, except III one case
other than this, in 1888, when a committee
| tried TO bring out private papers belongiGg
| to General Cass, then Secretary of War.
General Cass was charged with what would
be called now being connected with a public
land ring. Congress at that time by Il very
| decided majority decided they had no such
| right.
The committee then heard Colonel Robert
Christy in opposition to the views OF Judge
Black, contending that the last investigat-
| ing committee decided they had the power to
require the witness Kilbourn to answer, bat
| that other more important matters came up
| and prevented the committee from carrying
Col. Christy said be thought he could in
| form the committee that there would be no
| attempt to violate the Constitution of the
| United States.
| THEY HAD RIGHT TO THESE PAPERS
for the purpose of ascertaining how the mat
| ter stands. A legislative body may cause
the production OF public papers by simply
| ordering them, and If private papers OF a
public character are wanted they have the
| right TO issue a subpoena dUceS tecit0l. The
reason why the joint investigating commit
| tee did not force an answer from Mr.. Kill
| bourn was because of the doubt Of their
| power TO dose. Trey knew that committee
| of either body had the power, but were not
| certain of the power of a joint committee,
and for that purpose resolution giving a
| joint committee the same power as COM
mittee of either branch of Congress, which
| passed the House, but on account OF the
| want of time did not pass the Senate. That
| was the reason why Mr.. kllbourne was not
| compelled TO answer. This is not a case
| where the witness is on one side and the
| United States on the other. No one is upon
| tlial, and the witness is before the commit
| tee as witness simply. This is not a gene
morbid curiosity. The dttces tecanl was very
carefully drawn, and the particular papers
| desired were specifically asked for.
ANOTHER POINT.
Judge Black interrupted Col. Christy by
| asking if he contended that this real estate
1
| prove that, will give the case ur." Col.
| Christy replied it was just as public as il
| could be, with all of the mystery that was
thrown about ii. He then took up the argyll
| ment TO show that this was public trust.
| He contended, in examining into the pool,
he found many things that we're unusual
| and Unnatural, though he wonld not say
| fraudulent. The challenge that Judge Black
| made that these papers would be producet If
| an affidavit charging fraud was made, was
| meaningless. The witness himself says he
has been guilty of no wrong; that his reason
| for not answering is not because IL would
| criminate him, and hence there would be no
hardship in answering the question and
the production OF the papers There was
| no other body to inquire into this real estate
| pool, and this is the only tribunal that can
| inquire into IL. We want particular docu-
| ments that are described with such accuracy
| That witness well knows what is wanted. 1t
| Is no search, as he can do all the searching
himself. The only papers that are asked for
are those showing who he was trustee for Ia
this real estate pool. There is no effort to
inquire into his private business, but into
this public pool, which has dealt SO largely
| In real estate.
The committee then adjourned. and will AZ