The New York herald., 1876-03-02
THE STATE CAPITAL.
A Lively Talk Over the mo Seat
No Fare" Bill.
VIEWS OF STREET RAILROAD PRESIDENTS.
A Long Catalogue of Objections to
the Measure.
PASSAGE OF THE PAUPER CONVICT BILL.

ALBANY, March 1, leI6
The Railroad Committee Of the Assembly held ses-
non late this afternoon and considered among other
bills the Killian 'No seat no fare' bill
Henry NJ Scrbner, a New York lawyer appeared on
behalf the city railroad companies and argued
from the figures given sworn reports for 1874 to
the State Engineer by the various companies that the
companies would have income at all II they were
compelled TO put additional and horses and try
TO give every passenger seat As sample OF what the
profits Of the companies rule he said that II cost
the Third road in 1874 $40 per passen
ger and the average receipts u cents. Each pass
enger in that cost the Eighth road $40
cents each required eight horses day. and ten 10
supply the eight-whatever that may mean, $4,000
per mile to lay iron rails and $4,000 for steel rails
and instead OF $4l5OO0 for stables, &C, the Third
real for stables, &c, cost ST. 900
The of wages also had been increased since 1860
and hay and oats were very dear The roads were
really not making much money.
Mr. West, the chairman of the committee, asked
now it happened if the railroad business poor,
that so many persons were anxious to get into II?
Mr. Scrbncr could not account Tor this, but he went
on say that il a signal to indicate that the cars were
full was put the additional employee would
have to be engaged by the companies to attend to IL
zach car He claimed that the bill in It's first section
compelled the companies TO do what the second section
made a penal offence. The cause of the overcrowd-
ing of the cars that most OF the
people in New York went to and left their
places Of business about the same time 1t would be
impossible, he contcnded, to place more on the
various lines than there and he instanced
an argument to prove this that West Broadway tho
cars were nearly always within few feet of each other
and that on track from Canal to Vescy
1t would be impossible lenghen the cars II longer
than at present they could at the If
made double deckers they would be top heavy and
liable accidents. He stated that the reason why he
had quoted the figures to number of passengers
carried by the New York city companies from the
ports 1875 he had had them.
When asked what remedy there could be for the
rrowdng OF the cars he replied that rapid transit roads
could alone solve the problem The horse companies
made money from passengers who travelled the full
length of the routes but depended in reality for their
profits upon the fares received from passengers who
only travelled short distances
Mr.. Kian inquired # the horse companies would
he OF rapid transit roads that would take the
through passengers away from them.
'They would be, answered Mr. Scrioner
"Then, according your argument said Mr. Killan,
'the very people upon whose fares the horsccar com
panics depend for their income-rhat is those who
travel short distances-woud be certain TO get seats,
better accommodation, IN iact every way than II the
through passengers had also to take the horse carsy"
They would, OF course was the reply OF Mr..
scribncr.
Then how Is it," asked Killian, "hat for the past
I've years the horse-car companies have thrown all
heir infSnce and used their money TO defeat every
attempt made at Albany TO secure rapid transit road
Tor New York city 2"
Mr. Scr,bncr replied that he thought that people were
mistaken when they believed the horse companies
Kere inimca TO rapid transit
.Is II not fact asked Mr. Kiian "that the Third
road Is doing all II can now 10 prevent the
adjustment elevated road on Third avenueY II.
haI So" lie added "and the horse car companies do
make any money ou. OF through passengers is their
opposition not little singular.
Mr. scrbncr rather nonplussed at this question,
and again denied, much to the amusement of the COM
utcc apparently, that inc horse car companies were
opposed To rapid transit
Mr.. sullivan, President OF the Brooklyn City Rail-
road Company followed Mr.. Scribner in his opposition
10 the bill. ana based his arguments pretty much on
The grounds as MIR. Scribncr had based his He
claimed that his company, whose jurisdiction ex-
tended orty-two miles of road, received about
$40 per passenger leaving profit, therefore.
Of only sevcntCnths OF cent each passenger,
yet in answer to questions put by Mr.. West hc said
that the company had paid as high dividend as our
teen per cent, and the last dividend declared was
twelve per cent ''Yet you contend,' remarked Mr..
West "that the company could not make money by
putting many additional ears. Z"
al do. was the reply.
well all I've rot to say,n said Mr. West in his dry
way you're doing better business than am, and
think would be doing smashing business II ! got
sweve per cent on my investments"
Mr.. sullivan said that between the lst of October,
1S54 and the lst OF Octobor, 1915 this road had
red % 900 600 passengers and had run trips enough
carry every passenger seated To Fulton crry with
the exception OF one and half on each half trip He
believed that II would be impossible TO enforce the
provisions of the bill If II became a law, as people
would rush on to the cars aud stand and crush in
under to get home II they knew they could get
seat ny taking car two minutes later Than the ono
they crowded INTO whore there seats. IL tho
bill became law 1t would break every horse
pany in New York and Brooklyn.
As Mr. sullivan sat down Mr. West asked, "What is
The stock OF your road quoted atfn
zone hundred and eighty was the answer.
hr. Kihan then spoke IN favor OF the bill He said
that there two sections IN tho bill that
were conflicting but that was an oversight made when
IL drawn mp which hc intended to ask the com
mttee, OF which he himself was member, TO rcctiiy
There certain other defects in the bill which no
knew the railroad companies would make the most OF,
but then he proposed TO remedy that the COM
panlcs would have little chance TO escape It's mandatory
provisions by technicahty, He said that Mr. serb.
ncrs argument was the best that could be offered
against the BILL because II was the old story OF the
companies under new coat OF varnshi that and
nothing more The figures that had been quoted, The
statements that had been gwen TO show what losing
opera On at the best IL was TO run horse car COM
pany New York. had all been culed from the books OF
the companies and no one at all familiar with tue m
genious way railroad companies IN New York made out
their and reports would be at all surprised TO
hear that It was just as much as the companies could
do TO keep from gong into bankruptcy.
But these figures and statements gwen were not sup
ported by the aidavits of single officer OF any OF the
roads. Mr Scrbner had stated that they were based
upon tho reports made to the state Engineer, yet
though figures said never to lie there were many
ways by which totals, purporting TO tell all about
maintenance, counsel fees, operating the road &c,
did all the hgurcs on both sides of the com
panics' books, though on their face they may look
plausible enough II Il were TACT that the horse car
companies had to economic So very much
had bccn stated. no asked. now Coull the
fact be accounted for that was almost an impossible
y buy share OF the stock of any OF the large roads
Mr. sullivan had said that this road had 10 be
Quoted with great economy, yet the stock Of the road
was quoted at lo0 and dividend OF twelve per cent
had declared lie declared that the opposition OF
tho companies TO the bill prompted by pccunary
greed. He ready to conccdc that II they put on
more cars and had TO employ more help than they
have a. consequence, they would not be able
10 make as much money they now do but
that they would not make any money at all he would
not conoede. Companies whose stock was 80 valuable
l.I a. Laf a Al tru rlt
had large surpluscs OF which they were able TO de-
clare large dividends-had good margin TO work on
and vet be IN pocket handsomely by giving The people
more cars and better accommodation generally
The people in New York had submitted patiently
20 the treatment they had received at the
hands Of the companies long enough, and
the time had come when they determined
not TO be used like cattle any longer. Even as u is
hours OF the day when travel was at iis greatest
H.. laIL q N