The New York herald., 1875-09-11

But that is merely an inference Of mine can
present II as anything like evidence. l know
nothing positive
O. II will ask you, Bishop, II you recoect the cir
cumstance Of conversation between DR.. Saville and
Professor Marsh in reference to the seven head Of
cattle that charged by Professor Marsh very
inferor-the same that General Bradley gave GER
tficate in reference to-if you remember Professor
Marsh writing down something concerning It and Dr.
savile stopping him and telling him that he misrepre
sented or misunderstood himf" A. 81 do remember
nn
Bv Mr. Faulkner-'Had not you better state
Bishop what you recolect with reference to it ?" A.
81 would rather be questioned"
BY Mr. Faukner-''We would rather you would give
the statement 1t presents itself to your mind"
BY the Chairman-"Dr Savle said in his testimony
before us, when met Professor Marsh again 1t in
Bishop Hare's room in the hotel There this question
up again and Professor Marsh stated in substance
that had said that had received those cattle and
issued them too told him that had not said So that
l said that thought that had receipted for them,
but l could not remember distinctly; he then
asked me If you have received them were
they issued to the IndansS said probably they
He then went to take Il down and then repeated
nearly what he says there In the statement stopped
him and told him that he wfully misnterpreted or
misunderstood Inc. told him thought he was trying
he did IT, BY that time Bishop Hare got up and put his
hand me, for was getting very angry. said good
deal more but that is the substance of what said 10
him about IT,"
''Now what your recollection that
tion?" "Wel, do not think can answer until know
what is said in Professor Marshs pamphlet which Is
there referred to; am willing TO state Informally,
however understood the point Professor Marsh
made that Dr. Savle had said that he recepted tor
those head of cattle and Thereby made the gov
ernment responsible for them, while ! understood DR..
Saville TO say that he did not receipt for them but
m 10 a
tween the two words that he Savie represented that
they driven with the rest of the cattle and he
had permitted them 10 be driven into the corral and ar
forwards they issued 10 the Indians; that he did
not receipt for them although he received them; there
Is distinction plainly implied between the two
them the government would be responsible and have
pay for them, while II he merely allowed them 10 be
driven in and did not receipt for them the government
was responsible for them; If delivers six
barrels of merchandise to me and receipt for them
responsible for them and then II he aiterward de-
vers four more barrels and do not receipt for them
not responsible for them; the difference the
words receipted' and received Professor Marsh
understanding that it receiptcd and Dr. Saville
that IL receved IL was in regard TO that nat the
feeling was dispayed as TO which Saville said do not
know
BY Mr.. Harris-"This is what find in our record
of Dr. Saviles testimony taken before us at Red Cloud
agency
so In the same connection Professor Marsh says that
Agent Saville confident that these cattle, thin as
they were, would weigh $50 pounds on an average.
Did you make that statement to hmI' A. 81 shall have
to explain that in the same way by recalling what was
said Bishop Hare asked me if these cattle would weigh
every 900 pounds, and | SAID, No, they would
not.' and then remarked that the contract did not
require them TO be 1000 pounds in weight, and he
asked me how much it was and | told him
$50 pounds, and he turned to and said,
Did these cattle average $50 poundsp' asking
general explanation II they up TO the conract
answered him in these words, Yes, and more those
think the exact words
20. Did you any time claim, In that conversation
or any other, that they weighed $50 ?" A. No,
Sir, not fixing the amount only that they filed the
contract"
your recoleconS' A ~ would omit the words and
more but If put my oath to deny that he said
and more, should prefer not saying it, because is
merely matter OF memory, and mans character is
at stake"
@ 'Then, Bishop, how in other respects does the
statement agree with your recolectonY" A SEX
actly."
BY Mr. Atherton-'Do you remember his speaking
of the 81, 900 and the contract?" A. 81 do.'
BY Mr. Harris-"I want in that connection to ask an
other question Do you know whether DIR. Savesor
notat that time In the presence of Professor Marsh
and YOURSELF claimed that he was then speaking without
his books and without the means Of giving you the
act figures IN tho matter2" A 81 do not remember
that he named it,"
O. s'Do you know whether or not that was the fact
whether he had any books by him or whether you had
a transcript Of the booksW A. "Hc did not produce
any" .u,, p.o,,..or u..., ,..n..r,.,. :, II.
accounts Yn A. ~ had not
q "Perhaps it could not be at that time, because
believe you afterwards the record OF his statement
OF the weight Of the cattle received on that day? A.
al saw II in Professor Marsh's statement
by the Cnarman-Q ''BlShOp, nave you read inc
pamphlet OF Professor Marshg' A. "Not fully, | took
up, but was very busy with other matters and have
not read II fully"
@ '"Then you are aware of what the charges are
which are made in his statement TO the Commission"
A 'No not specifically"
O. $50 far as you have read them and are aware of
them, is there any information that you give us
that would be relevant TO the questions raised there
going to show the correctness any of those charges
any testimony in support OF them that you could give
us ~ A. III would prefer you TO ask me questions.
have nothing say in to that general question:
but should be very glad to answer any particular ques
tionn
Q. SWELL then, are you aware of any frauds perpc
tratcd upon the Indians by Agent SavilleS" ~ am
not"
O ''or upon the government" A. ~ am not"
Q. "Are you aware, even, whether or not the num-
Der Of Indians the Red Cloud Agency has been over
estimated overstated by the agent or by anybody
else, by which the government has been wrongcd2"
A. 81 notn
you have investigated that matter have formed
opinion upon that subjectS" A. 81 examined that
Maeh Mafr THn sa 50 s s the know %s'nsy sSvos
reports up that date regarding the number of Indians
were true But there is no subject upon which men
have such difference OF opinion upon the number
Indians Regarding the time when Professor Marsh
was there have no information ] was not there.
Upon the subject of the general question would read -
In the third place the testimony is abundant and
unanimous to the point that these agencies, always
the refuge in winter Of our northern Indians who have
connected themselves with agency in particular
were last winter the resort of larger number than
usual
W. 'DO you kHOW dHytuHb III euCe 10 IDo
issue of annuity goods at Red Cloud Agency lS74Y"
A. al do not"
q. '"You are not aware Of any circumstances that
might be regarded fraudulent reference TO the
issue of goodsf" A. 81 am notn
O "Do you know anything Of the quality of the beef
issued by the agent at the Red Cloud Agency to the
IndiansY A. "At what timer"
q "At any timer" A. "RegardinR the time covered
by my report, which is here have read that report
this morning and stand by every word of to day
O. ''lIavc you any knowledge the subject that is
not embraced in your rcportS" A. "Do you mean up
to the time that report made or since then pn
q. "Since that time" A. "No; l have no know-
edge"
O. "Can you give us the names of any persons who
have any knowledge on the subject ?" A. NO can
not; will say, gentlemen, that | stood by Agent
Savlle because believed him TO be honest man in
difficult position, fretted by some of whom had
bad motives, until met him here last June; then |
TO the conclusion that he not the for the
place"
BY Mr. Faulkner-Q ''Was that conclusion based upon
any facts upon his temper and character ~ "Partly
upon his temper partly upon the fact that he had been
SO bothered and there were many persons enlisted
against him that believed his influence for good
and Dartly-I would VIII I saw nnt