New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1875-05-05


though I think lfkely talked with him about ie
MI Evarts-what IA the objection 70 our question
Judge Neison-wen It In reading o discussion which
perhaps ought not to be read 10 the jury that the idea
Mr. Sherman put the remaining paragraph in the form
| of question, and ask him.
Mr.. Evarts-That Ia what he doing.
Judge Neson-No ask him more expressly.
Mr.. Beach, expressly object to this question: upon
ground that what the counsel reads s
part Of an interview between reporter and Mr. Tracy
There evidence Of that Sr there s proof OF IT,
and is surreptnously getting before the jury an as
serted declaration Of Mr. Tracy, OF which there not
] the slightest proof In this case.
Judge Neilson-The point stands precisely AZ II the
counsel had asked the witness whether In his convers-
ton with Mr. Mclean certain expressions were not re-
ferred TO, or repeated, made.
Mr.. Beach--rhat wond be correct
Judge Nelson-And meant to suggest to Mr.. Shear
TO put this last paragraph that he refers to In the
form Of q question.
Mr. EvartsBut ia not my learned friend wrong in say
ing there evidence this subjectt Mr.. Tracy has
testified that he published this interview in this paper,
and has been introduced and marked for Identification
that is by its date IL not necessary To mark Its
volume; your Honor remembers that And we offered to
read 1t in evidence and your Honor excluded But the
| paper il identified
Mr.. Beach-Th5n, CIR, It is true-the remark made
that there 10 not particle Of proof legitimate proof OF
that interview or that
Judge NeilsoIr-It had been excluded
| Mr.. 1nach [continuingl-Or Of what Mr.. sbearman
\ reads being any part Of the interview.
Mr. Shearman-The fact of the interview was proved,
and Gen. Tracy that he said all that he reported
here have said That lay the basis for subse-
quent action take the subsequent action by
showing that the witnesses attention was called TO what
| Gen. Tracy
Mr.. BeachGen. Tracy proved no such thing, Sir that
he said what In that interview and II 49, repeat
| hofnr Tho
alleged declaration that Mr. Tracy made TO reporter
Mr.. Evarts-How o public attempt In the face OF
the Court and the jury be called surreptitious onei
Mr.. Beaeh-well, think 1t may properly and justly.
Judge Nes0n-Well, this is very clear upon principle
that witness testified yesterday TO certain state OF
facts cannot IN any form show that the month before
he made the statement by way of fortnying what
| he says yesterday.
Mr.. Shearman-As general rule that is 30.
Judge NeilsonAs general rule; and If that is the OBJ
Jet OF this OF 1t Is improper. But think now
you may put that remaining paragraph In the form OF
question and whether those words, or the substance
OF those words passed between this witness aud this
| gentleman referred to; and then you have It all.
Mr. shearman-Did Mr. Mclean at that interview re fer
to the fact that question reported TO be addressed
Gen. Tracy in this language by the reporter DO you
cay that this is all the foundation there Is for
Tton Beecher scandal ." and that Gen Tracy was
reported answered, That is all 1t has not even
\
Mr. Beeehers church and others, that Mrs Tlton has
repeatedly and emphatically denied i A. No. do not
| rec0llect that.
O. Or any part OF It, Cir, being referred tot A Not
that you have read there now; have no doubt that
had general talk about that interview; very likely We
| did; but If we did, have forgotten it.
O. Well, Sir when was this A. / do not know
Mr. Beaeh-He says he has forgotten any such talk
| The witness does not say he had a talk
! MS shearman-ne says he had talb
| Mr. Beaeh-He does not say that
Mr. shearman-He sad that long ago.
Mr. Beach-He has not said IL; he said II was quie
likely he had talk but he had no recollection OF u
said from the beginning.
Mr. shearman-IIe said lit was quite likely nc had
and then further question he said no doubt De mad
The Winess-I said presumed had; / have no doubt
| OF 10 but | do not recollect it if did
| Judge Neilson-well, that covers that.
The Witness--I have talked so many times WIN MN
1 and others that I do not know cannot fix II.
| Mr. snear1nan-Did MT Mr.. Mclean at that interview
say to you effect that that ntervew-tha
reported interview-showed what Gen. Traey's under
standing of the case was He may have said So do
| not recolect that he did
q. Have you had any conversation since with any OF
those three gentlemen named, Mr. southwick, Mr. Nc
Lean, Mr.. Nichols, on that same suDeet-since tht
time-any more recent conversation A. had; MINK
| / was at Mr.. McIeans last night.
| O. Did you talk with him that subject then A
/
| transpred--
O. No no. did yon talk with him the subject Of this
interview last nights A. Did suggest that subject
say
q. mean this reported interview A. If You want TO
know what said last night Will tell you, II you want
int TO.
Mr.. Evarts-Wen, we don't; when we do, we will ask
you.
The witness-wen, am glad you don't.
Mr.. Beach-A they want If 10 get IN what Mr. Tracy
said, or what they assume he said
Mr.. shearman-Dd you ever have a conversation with
Gen. Tracy the subject Of that reported interview
| A. 1 don't think did have recollection OF IT,
O. Did you see Gen Tracy shortly after the publea-
ton of that interview A. How long after that was his
statement to the public madei Then can h1 H.
q. Gen Tracy's statement A. Gen. Tracy made
statement that published in the papers last Summer
Mr.. shearman-This Is the very one.
| The Witncss-That is an interview by reporter
Mr. sheartnan-That is the that is commonly called
the statement-June 20 that is the only statement Gen.
| Tracy made Oh there one in September.
| The Witness-Well, 1t is one OF the statements--
| Mr.. Beach-Mr. Tracy is prolific in statements
Mr.. shear1nan--we that is not the summer; that is
| in the Autumn. in September.
! The Wtness-I thought it was in August
| Nj. shearman-No, Sir; in September.
The wtness-Gen. Tracy made statement in which he
| said
Mr.. Beach-No, no: wait.
| The Witness-wen, saw Gen. Tracy right after he
made statement to the public.
Mr.. shearman-well, did you not ace Gen. Tracy fire.
quenty the 26th OF June and the time when he
made that second statement A. don't think saw
| him frequently.
Q. How often do you think you did see himi A.
| haven't any recollection.
@ You saw him occasionally did you mott A. Yes,
| think saw him occasionally
Q, And talked with himi A. recolect no talk but
special talk that had al his house. that went to see
| him about.