The New York herald., 1875-09-11

10 the knowledge or notice Of the Commits
sOner OF Indian Affairs or the Secretary Of the
Interior, OF which alleged frauds or mismanagement
no notice was taken by them" A. 'No, none whatso-
ever have no knowledge OF any such case on the
contrary have never brought 10 the attention OF the
department what thought TO be suspicious proceed
ing that II was not Immediately noticed and attended
TO-.
@. ''Have you any knowledge or informaion OF any
other frauds misnanagemen the part Of any per-
son connected with the Indian Department that have
not called your attention tori II would Ike
that question 10 be limited TO officers in authority at
Washington and Indian agents, il is too general
question, and should have TO ransack my nnd Tor
Q ''Well, including agents now holding Office and
about whom there are no Investigations set on foot
against whom % charges have been made" A 81
would rather the question would be divided"
Q First then as 70 officers and employees in the
department at Washington 7" A. ~ say perfectly
fully and frankly regarding that that all my intercourse
with the Secretary OF the Interior the Assistant Secre
ary and The Commissioner Of Indian Affairs has tended
but TO win FOR them my respect and regard have
never known them 10 be guilty OF any fraudulent prac
tice whatsoever"
Q "Nor tolerating II in othersY" A. ''Nor toleratng
IL in others -
O. 'Now in reference to the agents and employees in
the Indian country is there anything that you know Of
concerning them ~ Before | give my answer To
that question would like say that my relations with
Indian agents are somewhat confidential | go among
them as a minister They know perfectly well that |
have Official relations with the officers of the govern
ment Sometimes agent tells me things conhden-
italy and say TO him. You ought never
will report it TO the government In That That
way an agent tells me confidential matters connected
with his management Now | will give my answer to
your question. IL is this. | have knowledge Of
fraud on the part of any agent now in the held;
garding some, however, have suspcions.n y
O. 'Well can you give us the names OF any persons
who in your opinion, would be likely afford infor
nation gong To establish any OF the charges
would be likely to know the facts or to
know Of the frauds If they existed ?" A. 81 cannot;
the gentlemen whom you have questioned, the beef
and such persons, suppose could give you
information; your question means that you wish to
know i'll have any knowledge a secret my answer is
that have such knowledge information" !"
BY Mr. Faulkner:-Q "Has anything occurred since
you prepared that report either from your personal
knowledge or on satisfactory information that would
lead you vary modify the conclusions of that
port, far as the administration OF the agency at Red
Cloud is concernedS" A. Nothing whatsoever to
change my opinion regarding the administration up 10
the date Of that report
q 81 speaking of the date of the report I
was speaking of up 10 the present time. Has anything
occurred since the date Of that report arising either
upon personal knowledge, To your mind salts
factory information that would vary the conclusions Of
that reporti" A. II have become very suspicious
garding the condition of affairs at that agency during
the last year, but have no knowledge"
O. "Has the Episcopal church ever intimated to the
department any want of confidence IN theagent at
Red Cloud Agency, who believe is of their seec
ton" A. "Never. would like to add to that that
upon conference with the Commissioner of Indian
Affairs last June we both concluded that Savile had
better vacate his place"
q "Can you assign any reason why more progress
has not been made IN the establishment Of schools and
in missionary labors at that agencyY' "rhe agency
and the administration of the agent have been the sub
ject OF constant attack anu the agency itself has been
the of the widest Indians. In the uncertainty
which these facts has produced have felt inds-
posed to begin either schools churches Now gentle
men, l perfectly willing, at any Inconvenience to
stay here longer If It is essential TO the TRUTH but
my time up am going out of town
and have but twenty minutes to reach the
railroad depot and the carriage is waiting for me- |
would be very glad to stay if be OF any service
but wish TO say that do not Ike 10 be asked general
questions in public investigation. l willing to
confer privately with the Commissioners and give them
all the information and suggestions IN my power but
do not think can IN justice TO the character OF others
answer such general questions as have been pro-
pounded"
The Commissioners being desirous to hear further
from Bishop Hare because of his extensive knowl-
edge in reference TO the management of Indian affairs
prevailed upon him to remain and the examination was
continued
The Chairman ito Bishop re)-'T appreciate your
delicacy in this natter but you might give some
suggestions that would be of use TO us
Bishop Hare-"I have nothing TO say on the Indian
question which would not state in the presence of Pro-
fessor Marsh any representative of the Indian Depart
ment or to any gentleman who would be talking gem
tlemen talk among themselves "
Some general conversation here followed, in the
course of which Bishop Hare asked Mr. Faulkner why
he mad put TO him the question to whether anything
had occurred since the date of his report that would
lead hm TO modify the conclusions at which he had
arrived in that report Mr. Faulkner replied that the
question was suggested to him by the Bishops own
remark that he had stood by Agent Sayle until he
came here in June last, when he came to the conc-
sion that he not the man for the place. The
versation then turned upon the condition of affairs in
that Indian country at the time the Bishop made the
Investigations upon which his report was based. In
this connection ho went on to say
Bishop Hare-Severa white had been killed in
the neighborhood Laramie Peak within two days so
many murders had occurred that the whites became
alarmed had private Information from Indians which
was threatening some men urged that these Indians
had been driven 10 frenzy by wrongs perpetraed upon
them by their agents, and hence there were warike
proceedings: was telegraphed to by the government
and asked go out to Red Cloud Agency and Spotted
Tail Agency was then at Yankton Agency.-and
examine into the true state of affairs at
those agencies; these Indians had been put
under my missionary care and the agents
the nominees Of the Episcopal Church, felt bound to
60, and out Of my going there this report; did
not go to examine into the truth of Mr. Walkers report
my chief business; the question altogether a
bigger one; some people maintain that Indians
do wrong and have committed depredations that
some white men must have been the immediate cause
that is all humbug; these Indians very violent
very savage, and burst into simply
from The violence of their natures Of
course they are grievousy outraged by white men,
but not always by their agents. have read this
ing the report which made year ago last April and
pleased with 1t today; will say, moreover, that in
all my experience in the Indian country the raons that
Ihave have been wholesome and good but first
class; at the Red Cloud and Spotted Tail agencies in
March, 1874 saw bad Hour so far as could discover
1t was the remains Of flour sent there the previous
year.
q will take your recommendation, which we
will mark No. l, that the agents the Red Cloud
and Spotted Tail agencies and any agencies hereafter
established among the wilder Sioux to be supported
by military force which should, however, except
under extraordinary circumstances, be at short
distance from the agency and not Immediately ad-
joining; the relation of the agent and the commanding
officer should be definitely determined; that agency
be provided for the Northern Sioux, and that TO this
end, they be refused raons at the existing agencies
and delegation of them be induced to visit Wash
ington, and that the location Of the agency
be in the neighborhood of the Black Hills u
O. Had you seen anything in Savilles conduct be-
fore June, 1875 that made you think him morally
weak ~ A. 81 decline TO answer the question, respect
fully to you. ! would like to add, with reference to
Save's moral character that equal the average
Mr. HarriS-'Inat term, morally weak has been
used boioreYn
lMr Marsh-"Thc Bishop will understand what morally
weak means. -
Mr.. Marsh-"I have nothing to ask"
Bishop Hare-'T wish to say distinctly that in tho
conversation between DR. Save and Professor Marsh
understood the question issue to be whether the cattle
rcceped for came up 10 the average required by the
contract or noth
BY Mr. Earrs-"I will ask you whether not IL
claimed on the side that they did not come up
10 the average and on the other side that they did
was that the matter of controversy z"
A. ~ have no information as to whether that has
been carried out"
O. "As TO your second recommendation, that all