New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1875-01-08
and due. OF ellen, qreonsf Please give
NV ''"' 'f ' " - G. ABKar.
Hero Is Mr.. Johnson's reply: ,.-r

counsel ueh qr"cnst Please give
INC '0~' op'"'o" u" VI WIG P' G. ABEsr
Hero Is Mr.. Johnson's reply: =, ,s7k
To CuAnrr, Aprsr. UaA7g'Or. -, ,, %, ,.-. en-
porc by M Train - counsel IN that capacy ere cd ~
a Sa Co. S h no,s Sou Garnet legally or morally wi hou, h
consent disclose their You veil me and r, nv mem Of
you tits that yea made no paJ"e6, 20 JoTSsos
tee on Banking and Currency IN the Otean i h,s
Bank Investigation which he regrden as 80 ,nn ~ %
no ~ NaVrerd ms vows seem fully 10 accord win
the opinion OF Ms. X vcrdy johnson, aioaun saun
Wtoro diforcnre In tue Of action on the same
nnjnt Ly TWO Committees 4 the House oc' ul, Outh
courses cannot be iigh'. ana IN NY oPnon tho n5uSe
MA Gccreuce between the position OF Mr. Irwin anu
or agent of the Pacific NJ III Company. and was an
attorney and counselor emp yei hy him .,.,,.
tSrmuneo"s m.e On ,c ,n Of nS r s"neto are
shovel 70 b. revealed 10 court Of janee-IPmp' Cd h'0'n'e
Wan respect to the character and situation OF the
persons receiving tho communications IL ~ ~ ~
observed that this profe sioual hNisee eNttn"S '
three cases Of counsel attorney. aud solicitor ~
lC3) Therefore. IN he Payments made py nt, rs uao
ATTORNEY of hr IRWIN am debariel from testiiNinG,
especially when, on aplyng 10 my ccht 10 oe ,
to testify on this point nc dechhes 90 HNc MS
- II ~, he Moved sqas. his clients win. to disc'oe
m,tts oou6dBoe slough e hmehH Wiling 10 co ~
In % ocean Bank investigation case already referred
to- the witness not allowed 10 a. s"Vr tue qls'I"
as 10 whether he knew Of any illegal or iApin2tr %
dact 10 the management OF tn affairs of the Oan on us
N!r DayiN) part. or ON toe part win
oiler official IN any way connected , wtu
came nom Mr. DAVIS himself. Having exhibited 10 tn,s
Comctcc opposite course OF action fT I y! and
from that adoplrd by tne Committee on DSnf,nS @"I
Currency The question OF professional cohu"enov
respectfully contend NAT the House alone t"n ne'uo
which is he right course anu therefore, uulv,I "
swerng the pending ntcrrogdtory 81 tins cODmtee'
ak MAJ the committee VIII OBTAIN the decision Oh inc
House on llis uOpi rs ;pniicable to my case 49,,
Tde CnarmauI VIII not ask you jl,t now TO oivuiee
any communication made to Won by ML irWm pu anY
VIII arb NOa to testify TO Y"uF own ae's, "iJou, 10y
regard 10 any CoHm jnica toas. the' IOre pu 'he
qurstOn TO you, To waun dd you pay thls money -,
Wness-l strikes me mat mat Is INC very i'eS'i0n
ut issue. I made payments voluntarily. / made
I cm uudor the direction OF NJ. irwin.
The (h8irmnu-Ahout cODhunicallOns hetWcen couh-
MS cicDt, the courts say that these cOmmnhc
tons confidential, bat never heard ~ court s1y
10. that mau can Conceal lis owh acts uran , i
client told him to do them. ask You now about your
Mr. Nnack-I desire 70 call the attention Of the wit
ness t. h. distinction that cxIs,e between cOmhuucI
mons made bJ client to hiS "tI@lney an' &C.,
mems made ny the attorney Slu|y US an "srna' -
othcr words, the tc5 " c"dl'eI do no as run w
tcud 10 OF tnat sort, bat SIMPLY to advice ana
/ general direction.
ias CHAIRMAN to WitnossDo Won hold, os matter OF
Law, that this Committee ~ not entitled 10 near uny
communications made 1" YOU 10y Mf l!M' II oDSn 2ou
asi MI IRWIN itl Tdat seems to De me zoe,
trEe lara dO"n by nc Commit. &C "n banSiS a"u Nu
| r,rCy IN tlc case 10 hIru Won nave ratcItcdt .
Wtucs,-NJ SIR; the Uliculty IN this case ~ mat mr.
IRWIN himself declined 10 answer II Mr. irNih h91
not uC liu,d To answer, shoI'd not nave c"asldeIeu
,nis privileged a. sti'a al AL ,, =. ~. ,ho-.
Mr. Beckett IN make - 8 question to M Aocrh
Nj Johnson say, III hs leter, tnat II you "tte tn,.
ptuyed Iy Mr. lawn COUNSEL, ana III tddt cd!'lS
directed
pay tIom ont ~ Kills PIT IN your Gauds or me puIo'
tou cannot legally or morally, without lis consent us
close tn,ir nance YOL iCCO,icci THAT YO' said 20 US
rr,v tini che pay mems were made 10y tO men
whom never 1efcre or Slnc"In many eseS
| Does IT not occur 10 YOU thdt wncI@ payments were
made y Won to men whom yOu never saw before nor
! since, lac Letter Of Mt. EverGy johnson docs not
9pnroach the Question al ALI
| WiImcs,-It Is not u question of employment by me,
certainly ,,., :, o.o ,o.,uo,s ,,o, 7 IN,
n self 10 guard j'lIusy the Ug ITS or client ~ the
hands OF his counsel Ihcy arr considered Nv me pro
fe.sou the most sacred Of its Obligations, ana Tor Que
would nor knowingly trench upon those rights. We de-
sire get certain acts OF ours which We iey' We
question As Mr. NU,dCk has SAID, thtse acts or as
| Jnr.emcnt by YOU cannot under any CONSTRUCTION ne
considered rs COnadGhu"l COMMUNICATIONS between
MI KiSso,Ii tie very nature Of things the party to
whom tuc money Vad is wen aware OF the TACT as
the cient hHscif aud Therefore II cannot hc rSohdi
| secret. hold f,rther tnat universal law requires a
Lc made 10 another party by direction OF Ills cheNt
| Mr. En'ackIUMior the law Of my State. a physician
j. prohibited ron disclosing COMMUNICATIONS mdle TO
mn 10y his patients, bat that promotion would NOT pr
mt hun, If called upon IN proper way from cOmnuAl
eating te tact what medicine ho gave 20 his patient
MI KassoI-Or # a SUIT was brought by tae apotLe-
ca 40 sold the aud he should put the pays
oau on the sand the STEFAN would DC compelled 10
| testify tnat he ordeicd Tie III dciue:
property refuse 10 Tell what d} inE uan communicate
Ia Lin bat that WOuli not protect rim from disclosing
TO the court what OF the money OF tue dying
that into MS posses lOn' II That became ma
me CGsiimir-IIc might be shielded from saying
|
| Inc nd with the money.
! Mr. Bect-Tue question here does not raise at all
| the question between attorney and client. We are
| investigating now what corrupt means nave been used
to obtain legislation by COn-r Ss. Mr.. Irwin Is IN no
sense parry that matte. lie Is witness. and this
mao witness, ANA theN cannot constitute the reld
| lions of client ami ttrutV III covering up payments
made for corrupt purposes As Wc axe cadedNOrlngt 10 &c.
1T tue bottom vi tnc Question whether corrupt means
we're used moi, the relations OF client aud at Orncy
cannot in tue mater. Congress uOcs not recog
such thing. L. Il against puOlc morality tor
TO come here attempting 10 lhnp nee legislation,
| and
IRWIN ptnplOycd counsel or uUl he could constitute
a relation which wOud keep Congress from getting at
Ihc facts therefore 20 away bcJ Ond ali nls question
| of attorney and client.
| Air No, d-Nou express my sentiments exactly.
| MIR. Keley-AHd cUucdr enurely
The CnaIman-l do not doubt u word OF what Mr..
Beck sad that This matter Is distiuLushaOe from
the relations Ot attorney ana client
he Wtncss-I wuu,d state that only want to clear
my professional honor aud nv honor as man, who ny
10 % wears OF age has passed through lie with his
the question which | have suDmttel, and that
then You Will alJw Inc uuul Saturday N lnlng To de
clde fully my position. have been f;ring from
| cbronic CZPua, has weakened much,
| should IKE TO have rest until Saturday morning.
would feel dIh rent position II had the dccklol
OF Tue House want to feel u ~ fortified 10 the matter
Mr. Beck-Wil abide by The decision OF the House
Witness-Do you mean by that that If the HOus,
decides shall answer viii ansWerf
Mr.. Beck-Ics.
WltDess-I cannot say YES or no 10 that.
After sh ,rt consultation the request OF tho witness
was complied with, and nc excused until Saturday
morning.
Messrs Schumacher and Parsons were not examined
to-day, owing 10 The slOwness OF the COMMITTEE They
| are promised for tomorrow MT Riggs and Mr.. Cooke
the bankers whom the $4,000 la cnecks payable i'
Schumacher drawn were examined briefly Tor tl'
| purpose Of identifying The checks.
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