The New York herald., 1875-12-25
CANAL FRAUDS.
goRR EXPLANATIONS FROM AUDITOR rHAXER-
now HE CARRIED FIRTY THOUSAND DoIIARs
WORTH or FloUR-THR WILLARD JOHNSON
- votrNrraaN cwPTrETcA ATrg

Auditor Thayer appeared before the Canal lnvestgat
40 ComIni ission to-day and presented the statement
,hich has been already published appended % which
tere additional statements saying he desired 70 qualify
as former statement that upon none Of his purchases
4 the s162, $40 % from contractors named
tha eonsnltaton With the Governor had he or the
,ank realized mere than simple interest The rate
Eas simple interest; but the time being uncertain i
Vas estimated, and in some instances there was shgnt
gain IN time by of being paid sooner than was
s,pected al the time Of negotiation He also said his
sank liabilities diminished from $50 600 TO $1,000
" realizing on -four to the amount OF nearly
t5o.o 600 which he had been carrying in
New York He also explained his mean
mr. Of the word s.audip IN his testimony. He did not
consider himself called upon audit the certificates
nrther than to see they in proper form and
,enune All these certificates, he said were examined
md found 10 be due and proper form before he took
hem, and they wero accompanied by The Engineers
certificate required BY law.
Mr. Thayer was then examined 10 the several ale
ations 10 his written statement and particularly as TO
ais Of $4,000 for putting the canal a. unca 10
epair In this examination he fully admitted thai the
sovernor authorized suggested or countenancea
ne loan but on the contrary always insisted that it
,houd come out the ordinary repair fund ana that
was the PLAN duty Of the Auditor 10 pay
The Commissioners thon took recess.
AT the afternoon session Mr.. Magone resumed the
animation ofMr rhayer
q How much had the canals earned in 1875 prior to
June Az A. Can't say mp To the 4th. on the lst or
June S1o0642 90 had been earned
o That answers the question. Have yon looked to
see II you had money pay the certificates Of Yatess
A Have not looked, but know there none booked
~ tho time
O What sum of money was there put in the Treasury
subject 10 payments for ordinary repairs between tho
ist OF June and tho 18th OF June, Il anyf A. There
was money earned but u subject 10 resolution OF
the Commissioners OF tho Canal Fund
O But you paid out money without such resolu-
tionY A. Yes; there was no action taken by them
q do not understand Il as you do. | understand
lhere was plenty Of money Do you understand Yates
paid according to law A. Yes; tho fund set apart
Tor that purpose was exhausted
q Then you had adopted the same rule as in other
BASES you could have paid IL that s, there vas plenty
Df money hut 10 had been set apart by the Comms
Ti0ners OF the Canal Fund A. There had been APP
preparation BY the Commissioners OF the Canal Fund;
they had agpropTasss s seS more ! sogls Rays aseR
: O As to the certificate OF Thomas Gall, how much
I'D you pay for thatS A don't know exactly what
Q Do you know for what length of time you dis
counted III A No; cannot tell what pa1c nor the
ength Of time discounted 1t for.
O Can you say it was for month or two months2
a. Ny best recollection rs about one month.
o Didn't you discount i ON the face of the paperf
q When you took il wasn't IT entitled to INTEREST,"
4 No
u
much did you pay him A. I don't know
q We can only find that you paid $T2o SO; did you
pay thatf A. No, SIR; never discounted that much
kom any certificate, al know is that took about
month 's. interest
O How can you swear that when you say you don't
know anything about the timer A. draw my knowl-
pdge from the dates given and know took only simple
Interest
q Then what you got additional was on account Of
difference OF timer A Yes
You say in your written statement that the Canal
Commissioners and yourself consulted the Governor,
eHorsV NJ ch a1Etq ha
tractors you then purchased $lo2 GAO OF certificates
simple interest1 A. Yes, sir
q. You say ia your statement that the Governor ad
yised you to a. you did in order TO procure the
opening Of the canals the commencement OF navga
you buy the Dennison certificates, or had they any
thing 70 do with the opening Of the canals A. Deni
son refused to 20 with The work unless helped
y DID he ever 60 on with the work. A. YeA some
q Didn't you know that pennison able to go
onf A ] knew hirn 70 be a man of means, hut lie
threatened 70 throw Up his work unless he could have
money.
A Yea ca = ~
O WhereS A Up at Port Schuyler. heard he
fore the bill 200 passed A. That bill had nothing
70 do with Denison's certificates. II was Hamitons
@ Didn't you know that Hamilton was merely Den
isons foremanY A. No, sir; never knew IT,
Q In the interview with the Governor, what state
ment was made TO himS A NJ brother and myself
went 10 the Governor with the bill
o What amount Of certificates did you own at that
timef A. Not q dollars worth
O What certificates did the bank OF which you were
q stockhoIde hold A The Osborne certificate.
q What did you tell the Governor 10 the Interview
wpoken Of A. Nv brother did most Of he taking,
and stated condition Of affairs saying the contrac
needed help the Governor asked who they we're,
and my brother wrote down the names Of benson and
Bcden, who wanted $50 600; did not hold their GER
tlacate then Nash and Barnes were named, and did
not own any Of these theirs amounted to S70,oO0
also Fiager and Riley; also McEacrow, the Governor
said .-HGentlemen we must have the canals open at
all hazards; you must do the best thing possible" "
q Did he not say so on and do the best you can,
and you VIII be sustained N 50 doingf don't
know he added that; don't know as anything was
said about an enabling law
q DId be say anything about borrowing money at
seven per cent or at any other rato2 A. Not IN
many words; he ADVISED US 70 get the canals IN condi
o Didn't you know the State had plenty or money
drawing only four per cent? A. Yes
q And yet you bought up this paper az seven per
cent and cashed u as soon as money came lho your
q Did you know Hamlton's contract was let with
ont an examination by engineersY a. No, sir.
Q You that you had right to pay for this and
yet il not under contracts A l thought il was
under a contract
O You say.-"Ag " the difference IN my line OF dis
counts At the bank II produced BY my commercial
transactions In that you included your purchases Of
ccrLincates A. Yea
q And you also say II had nothing 10 do with your
official acts By that you mean that you did not allow
vour Official acts 70 stand in the way Of making these
o Dd The Trov CITY National Bank ever charge Won
than seven per cent per annum upon the loans they
made 10 you upon cer,ihcates2 A. No, sir
Mr. Magone here announced that he bad nothing FUR
ther TO ask
q You have sworn here that you reduced that vo-
Iume OF Indebtedness, IN which you were indebted TO
them out Of sales OF nourY A. Yes, sir
q Didn't you realize net anticipated pront OF over
SIS 600 on the negotiation at the Troy bank OF the
lizard Johnson certificates that passed into your ac
count and sill reTnanss your account and used
for the purpose Of reducing the volume OF your IN
debtedDessY A. ] admit IL Yes
IL mot he
Baxter award pass into and form portion OF the re-
ducton Of the volume of your accommodation indebt
edness the bankY A. Yes
q Did not the money that you realized in the trans
aoton nom the purchase Of the Case certificates, the
French certificates and tho Wells certificates each and
all pass into and be credited your bank account2
A. II did yes SIT.
q Didn't the difference In interest that you real
ized IN the transaction with Mr. Denison the pur
chase 500 600 worth Of certificates also into
tne bankf A An the money received
q Thon ali the profits that you realized that you