The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1874-05-02

The witness will be examined in public session
tomorrow, to AFFORD counsel on both sides an op-
p0rtunity to cross-examine him.
BOUTWELL, ON SANB0RN.
The Ex-secretary's Examination Before
the Committee ON Ways and Means-
The Celebrated Contracts ond tho Re-
sp0nsibility Therefor.
WASHINGTON, May l. 1874
Senator Boutwell, appeared before the Commit
tee on Ways and Means this morning and made
statement that when the law or May q, 1872, was
passed. his MIND Secretary of the Treasury, was
directed to two thngs-frst, that the department
should have the power to annul contracts at any
time specifically, and second, that 1t should not
only be understood, but specifically provided in
the contracts that all moneys collected should be
paid into the Treasury through the proper officers.
He advised the insertion OF these two provisions,
which accomplished
THE DESIRED RESULT.
He did not expect much money to come into the
Treasury, as he did not have much confidence in
what some persons engaged In the detective SER
vice said they could recover. Persons would come
to him with statements about the withholding OF
money and OF frauds OF various kinds against the
government. The statements were always consid-
cred when 1t was supposed there was good
foundation for them, but not otherwise. He re-
ferred to his order preliminary to contract with
Kelsey for the discovery and collection OF money
DUE but withheld by persons and corporations,
providing that no money be paid to him unless
the money should be secured, and said the con-
tract itself was according TO the form determined
at the time, and in conformity to the object he
had in hts mind. He recollected that Kelsey
called upon him. although he did not recollect
that he saw the list Of the corporations and
parties against whom the claims were made;
but ne learned that one OF these claims
cent was allowed By law, YET ii the sums ms to be
that the allowance should have, proportionateiy.
been much less. Judge Pendrey, he recollected,
proposed 70 collect certain moneys against q
Western railroad, and In his conversation with
him something was said about reduction of COM
pensation. The case was Q large one, and his I'M
preston was that Pendrey did not obtain con-
tract.
He could not recall any interview ne ever had
fore SanbOrn became special agent OF the Treas
ury Department he was not aware that he had any
@ 81 n 50 w Sns il as me ss
vice Of the department he obtained some knowl-
edge Of Sanborn by going over the list OF special
ing them. The obi ect IN going over the list was
to ind out the least eficient Agents. so as to ap.
point better ones IN their places the sion
HGsa wsi SsSs ef ~ as n
ciay or personally, nor had he of1cialy or person
ally knowledge Of contracts made with anybody
else ader t1e law Mr. amoO sner was
preparation Of the paper with reference to KEEL
seys contract was ntrusted to the solicitor OF the
ment. Therefore he felt at liberty to rely on htm
that the papers prepared In his ONCE were legal In
anything that was not In accordance with the law.
Having his attention called to the provision OF law
cosrRoMfsR AND SETTLEMENT or CASES
growing out of customs revenue, Mr., Boutwell,
said the construction put upon that provision
that it also applied to internal revenue cases. He
the Secretary Of the Treasury as applying to all
branches OF the department. The Secretary was,
OF course, subject to the restrictions OF law au-
thorlzed to go on and make collections in his
sary TO consult the Commissioner Of Internal
Revenue, but ne considered 1t to be his duty to
advise with the Solicitor of the Treasury before
commencing suit as to the proper course to be
by the advice OF the Solicitor. It was simply i'm.
Clients what 70 ao He must rely on the
good faith and ability OF his assistants or subordi
mates In office. He was sure the Sanborn bust
ness was never matter or conversation between
him and Secretary Richardson. Having been In.
formed that Sanborn conveyed the impression to
terms OF Intimacy, Mr.. Boutwell, said he never
had any personal relations with Sanborn at ALL
He had heard OF Sanborn through Mr.. Madge
who Is chief OF the special agents Of the Bureau
sANBoRN HAD NO RIGHT TO CLAIM HIS PERSONAL
FRIENDSHIP
and intimacy. the law under which such agents
were appointed was very peculiar, and placed the
Secretary IN very disagreeable position. II he
refused to employ them they would complain that
dollars illegally withheld from the government,
but that the Secretary would not let them do 80.
would exact their own terms because Il could nos
be expected that man should show his hand and
the government then turn round and say, after
Obtaining the Information, 1--WE do 1t cheaper
This would be dishonest; therefore the law was
diferent from any other law. The responsibility
to sanborn, Mr.. Boutwell, said he treated hun
properly IN business, but otherwise he had nothing
to do with him. During his term OF ONCE only five
amounting to $4,000; but he had no knowledge
that payment had been made.
said no Secretary the can ever propsry
be made responsible for all the business Of his de-
partment. except there be evidence IN matters
never less than an hour day signing papers, and
sometimes three hours are thus employed. He
PERSONAL initials upon them. the contracts bore
Solicitor Banneld's initials
THE ORDER COMMANDING ASSISTANCE FOR sANBoRN.
Mr.. Boutwelre attention was called to an order
signed by him and addressed to collectors and as
SCISSORS. directing them TO assist Sanborn IN such
way as ne may ask IN Ine examination OF 0ncl8l
records Mr.. Boutwell, said he stood by this as
legal and proper. 1t merely allowed MIN to see
the records In the assessors and collectors
ofices with reference to persons who have with
going aster those who have already paid their
taxes. Mr.. Boutwell, said this may have
been technical departure from the law
considering It In the light recently brought
before the committee As to the appointment Of
sanborn, ne supposed II was made on some rec
would be found In the Appointment Bureau or In
MIR. Madge's once. Hts frst knowledge OF con-
tract with Sanborn was derived from Solicitor
Banfeld, and he had NO doubt II he made any re-
marx concerning the matter 1t was not unfavors-
bic to Sanborn; and he knew OF no reason why ne
should not be appointed.
The examination here ended, having continued
two hours.
HAMILTON COLLEGE.