The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1874-06-01
M A N I T o B A.
An Interview with a Member Of
tho Dominion Parliament.
The Troubles in the Red
River Territory.

On Saturday. the HERALD having ascertained
that Mr.. Cunningham, member OF the Dominion
Parliament for the county OF Marquette, in Mani
tOba, was staying at Barnum's Hotel reporter
called upon him with view to obtain some inior-
nation respecting the peculiar history OF that
Province during the past four or five years. The
reporter found the honorable gentleman exceed
ingy courteous and communicative, and not at all
timid in expressing his views and opinions relative
to the matter In hand and OF the men connected
with what he called the "troubes OF 1869 and TO-"
condensed account OF the conversation between
the reporter and the member for Marquette is
given below
RsPoRTER-We have heard from time to time o
good deal about your Province Of Manitoba, but
our Information has been somewhat fragmentary.
Most OF our people fail to appreciate the exact
position which led to the difficulties which occurred
between Canada and your Province some years
ago. Can you ex lain what was the real cause
which led to the ''trouoles9o
Mr.. CuNNNGHAM-I can quite conceive the DIM
Guilty you have in approaching the political posi-
ton In the Red River country in 1885, for that po-
sltion was altogether anomalous-unprecedent
In fact, and thoroughly In discord with what are
termed tie principles OF English constitutional
government.
REPoRrER-Hows
parties connected with that Red River country.
These were England. Canada, the Hudson Bay
Company and the people OF the country. Now, the
first three parties laid their heads together and
came to q little arrangement among themselves
without recognizing the fourth party-that is, the
peope-at all. The arrangement was that the
Hudson Bay Company. were to be paid by Canada
the sum OF $780, 0OO for what 1t is rather difficult
to understand, for they owned no property in the
country further than the right Of trading which
they retain STILL exactly as before. For this
payment the whole Northwest was to be
handed over to Canada, and England was
to have no more bother with 1t. But you
observe the people OF the country were utterly ig-
nored in this transaction and you must remember
that the people OF what is now Manitoba are
better educated, Weather, more intelligent than
the people Of any Province In the Dominion, and
are perfectly capable OF approaching the rights
that belong to them as British subjects. To put
the position little more plainly-England and
Canada, with equal justice, might have come to an
arrangement by which Australia or New Zealand
or Jamaica, or any other colony, could have been
handed over to Canada, without consulting the
people Of any OF these colonies they could with
Manitoba. 1t was British colony in every sense
OF the term. 1t had its Parliament; 1t could I'M
pose taxes and did so it had its various courts OF
"
constitution. And England and Canada and the
Hudson Bay Company treated 1t as q chatteL
REpORTER-Do you mean to say that the people
OF that country got no Ocial intimation that first
negotiations were proceeding and then that these
were completeds
Mr.. CUNNINGHAM-Not one word was ever spoken
to the people OF the Northwest, either with re-
gard to the proceedings or their completion.
Neither Governor McTavish, who represented
at once the Hudson Bay Company and
Queen Victoria, nor the Council OF Assini-
boin, who represented the people, nor the
people themselves, ever had any intlmation that
confederation with Canada was ever dreamed OF.
REPoRTER-well, how did the matter eliminate.
and what brought about the troubes-I mean
what were the direct causes of these troublesi
Mr.. CUNNINGHAM-These were threefold. First,
the Canadian government, long before even the
negotiations were completed, sent up an army OF
surveyors into the Red River Territory, These
men, void OF all discretion, set to work. ran their
lines regardless altogether OF the conformation of
the farms Il the oil settlers threatened these
old settlers when they reasoned with them that
the Canadians would soon drive them out OF the
country any way, and that they need not mind how
they conducted their surveys. and produced in the
minds OF the old settlers strong feeling OF
fear OF Canadian rule. Then these people, who
were in great measure cut OF from any connec-
ton with Canada, did not exactly know what idea
to form with respect to confederation. They. as
people, did not know what laws were to be put in
force In their country. They had their own taxa
ton of Jour per cent on Imports but they had no
knowledge OF how far this was to be increased or
decreased by confederation; In tact, they, were
driven, by want Of knowledge, into q corner, and
at length they withstood Canadian interference,
and refused to have then anything to do with
Canada.
REGENERATION did they show thiss
Mr.. CUNNINGHAM-When the Hon. william Mac
Dougall came to Pemhna and wanted to enter the
country as Governor Of the Nortnwest-at time
when, as is acknowledged by everybody, he hal
neither commission nor had the Canadian gov
eminent right to grant MIN such q
thing, and when he issued, ON the LIST
OF December, proclamation purportlng to
to be Queens Rrociamasion but Which, in fact.
him as their Governor and accept such terms ana
arrangements as might seem proper Tor him to
come in here. We not only won't acknowledge
you, but we will not even permit you TO enter the
territory either as Governor or as plain William
MacDougan." And they did not allow him to come
in. So he had to return to OTTAWA, and Is now en-
'ployed by government as an emigration agent IN
RRPoaTER There occurs to me a question at
this point on which should like to have some In
take at this erisisf You have mentioned Gov
ernor representing the Queen and O Council repre-
senting she people OF the country. DID they make
any move at all when the people refused MacD0u.
gall entrance into the country?
Mr.. CUNNNGHAM-That Ia o very important point,
especially as matters now stand. When MacDOu-
gall issued his proclamation as emanating from the
queen, on the 1st OF December, the Governor re-
signed his functions the council was dissolved,
Canada had no legal connection with the country
until the 18th OF May following, and the question
now is. was there in the interim de Jdcto govern.
ment or was there not hold there was. Because
the people, after having told MacDougal to Keep
away, set TO work to form government on recog-
nized constitutional principles. There were twenty
four OF what were called parishes In the section OF
the Red River territory, now called Manltooa. IN.
tlmatlOn was given to each OF these parishes 10
send a representative In order To form parlla-
ment with view to the good government Of the
country, These representatives were sent, cabi-
net was formed by these representatives. what was
called bill OF rights was drawn out TO
he laid before the Canadian Government
and acceded to, before the people would
have anything to do with Canadian connection;
these delegates were received solely on the ground
M ha wing an Official letter from the secretary OF