The New York herald., 1874-12-13

time to time to be put by members OF the commit
tee.
RUFUS Hatch, being sworn, was then examined
by Mr.. Kasson He testified that no was elected
director or the company on the last
Wednesday In May, 1874 and mas been director
ever since; he had no personal knowledge
whatever OF the business OF the company
prior 20 May, 1873. but through an examination OF
the books he had kno Wedge OF Its accounts for
1872; there were some items OF the accounts dur
ing that period which had not been explained to
the satisfaction Of the company; these items con-
sisted solely OF payments made TO Richard B. Irwin,
their San Francisco agent to the aggregate amount
OF $3.50 ooo the original checks for which Mr.. Hatch
exhibited to the committee: there are Six Of
these checks. numbered consecusively, all drawn
on the National Bank OF Commerce Of New York,
to the order OF Richard B. Irwin, and signed for
the company by Theodore F. Johnson, Treasurer
pro ters and F. W. g. Bellows, Vice President,
and all certified by the bank; the nrst Of these is
tor $1,000, and is indorsed not only by Irwin. but
Dy E. Williams. cashier Of the American Exchange
Bank, for deposit; the other checks are indorsed
only by Irwin and are for the following amounts
namely $780, 900, $5000o $4,000 and two for $4,000
each. The witness stated that these are the
only checks of the existence OF which he has
any knowledge that have been drawn outside OF
the regular business OF the company or which ap-
ness knows, the company has no record OF these
cheeks except on the check book; there are,
however, very large entries ON the books OF the
company for several months before and after the
date OF these checks tmostly May "a, 1872, which
indicate large stock operations In Wall street or
money loans TO bankera and brokers. Witness
thought probable that the checks In question re-
lated to or were connected with some OF these ope
rations; there were NO facts within his knowledge
leading to this impression; these checks might
have been used to repay loans, or been otherwise
connected with these transactions, but witness
had no personal know ledge of any OF the bus-
ness OF the company prior to the date when he
became director; he did not know whether the
company had any agent at Washington during the
pendency Of the movement for suLsidy never
heard any person allege personal knowledge Of the
company's having employed any agent here, and,
in short, witness had not Information, either di-
rectly or indirectly, except through newspaper
statements, that the company had ever expended
q dollar to influence Congress; witness had never
spoken to Quick In his life, or seen him but once
at tina: time he heard Mr.. Sage say to Irwin that
he. Sage intended to 60 to the bottom OF this
matter and also satisfy himself In regard to GER
tain large expenditure made by Irwin for nre ex-
tingulshers; witness himself suspended as not
satisfactory one voucher OF $4,000 for expenses
or disbursements which had been flied by Irwin at
the time he lett the service OF the company, In
November, 1872; witness considered this voucher
unsatisfactory because 1t was supported by Irwins
name alone.
Examined by Mr.. Beck--Witness stated no one
had power to draw out money OF the company ex-
cept by order Of its President; there was nothing
on the books to show for what purpose this money
was used; action was taken by the company early
in 1878 to ascertain what had become Of this
money; witness did not then know that
Congress had commenced an investigation OF
the matter; nothing had been developed
in conversations or consultations Of the Board OF
Directors to show that any OF them had any desire
or motive to cover up these matters or that their
suit against Irwin was not brought in good raith.
Witness theory as to these checks was based on
nothing more than conjecture as to possibilities.
Witness stated that James D. Smith is the only
member OF the present Board VINO was Q director
OF the company at the time referred to.
In answer to Mr.. Dawes, the witness said that
when he spoke OF the memoranda on the books,
showing that large loans had been made to stock.
brokers about the date OF these checks, ne meant
merely ordinary entries Of debit and credit;
the company might have loaned the money
to Irwin, who might, with II, have en-.
abled gome banker Or stockbroker to
pay on loans made by the latter from the company
He could not OF his own knowledge, answer a
question put by Mr.. Beck, whether President
stockwell was or was nOt sick when he alleged
sickness as an excuse for not appearing before
this committee last year, nor did witness know
what Mr.. stockwell is now doing IN Europe; ac-
cording to the practice Of the company the Presi-
dent might have ordered these checks 10 be
drawn, and the Treasurer and Vice President
might have signed them on this order without
hs
necessarily have any knowledge OF them.
Mr.. Waldron called witness' attention TO the fact
one for $4,000. were stamped as paid by the Dank
May e, and aud asked him 81 Il this did not
that Time, and also whether, In view OF the other
checks bearing no Endorsement, except Twins,
the counter OF the Bank OF Commerce, and not
through any other bank. witness answered in
tion by Mr.. Waldron, stated he knew OF no inves-
tigatlon having as yet been made by the company
attne Bank Of Commerce in regard 70 these points.
by MIR. R0berts-Tne arrangement with Mr.
Roach had no relation to the Congressional SUBJ
sidy, and witness stated, without qualification,
with it has taken no steps whatever to influence
Congress or the executive departments OF the
~ fees secret S% ans
the committee e1 any Of their books. RECORDS Or
sEfs'al1s bs M pafshsrd-pid not know whether these
checks had been charged TO any account and did
not know whether the companys correspondence
hm The snd any a a.
service OF the committee whenever desired, and
they could make their own exemiuation: -ltHes5
Ad not know whether or not 1t hs--i peeh q prac-
its management t. suvance money to bankers Of
brokeya TO Protect The price ef,s stoox there was
possibility that these cheeks might have been
used to repay loans naaS5 BY the company but he
Knew notNn& whMeyey ABOUT the transactions
more than he had now stated.
Mr.. Hubbayt, as counsel for Irwin, at this point
submitte4 TO the Chairman tMr. Dawes some
written Questions to be propounded to witness,
n
peared for examination.
MIR. Roberts remarked that there were no
charges pending before the committee against
Irwin. and Mr.. Beck said he had never heard OF q
witness appearing by attorney. The questions
were therefore not allowed TO be put 1T present
Mr.. Hatch was excused to reappear when nott-
ned by Q subcommittee consisting or Messrs Kas-