National Republican. (Washington City (D.C.)) 1872-1888, 1874-05-26


mending change. So IL took me q long while
until saw that this was radically wrong, and
then afterward IL took me q long while until
could convince other members Of the board It
was wrong.
g. How long-you went in a. . member in
October, 1877 A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long after that before YOU came to
the conclusion that the system was wrongi A.
This conviction gradually Enthusiastically.
2. Was It six monthsi A am learning
every day. pa
Q. When did you come to the conclusion
that the system was wrongi A. am one of
those progressive men who try to learn every
day; so could not say exactly. am more
confirmed in this view than / was six months
ago. D. e..
Q. Did you think It was vicious system six
months agoi A. A bad system / said, not d
vicious system. 1t was too complicated alto
gether-
Q. Then the mistakes, errors, or frauds that
have grown up are the result of the systemi
A. Most of the errors, dare say.
2. And not the fault of the men who ad-
ministered it2 A. No, sir.
T. There have been two sessions of Congress
since you became Q member of the Board OF
Public Works2 A. Yes, sir. ..
y Did you ever suggest this to Congress
DID you ever make any suggestion that this
system should be changed A. / did not do
anything to create ll-feeling toward the Dis
trict government, as they seek to make up
here. have done, in a quiet way, my duty.
About Mr.. Forsyth and his doings / have
spoken to you, yourself, personally, many
times.
Mr.. Stewart. Yes; you have spoken to. me
about Mr.. Forsyth. You said you did not
think he was very competent man. recol-
lect that.
| The Witness. And when an opportunity
4 .knWNA Atar
matters ] would, without doubt, have ex-
pressed myself in the same way.
Mr.. Stewart. l know you very well, Mr..
| Cluss; but did not get the idea from any con-
versations that we have had-and we have had
a great many-our intercourse, believe, has
always been pleasant-but never got the idea
that there was anything wrong about the ar
rangement of the affairs of the District, so far
as you know. You certainly never conveyed
that idea to me. Did you intend TOT
The Witness. l could not say exactly. As
| said, i told you-and, you know, Mr.. Hildreth-
| there WAS Q peculiar opportunity of speaking
about this gentleman l have just mentioned,
Mr.. Forsyth.
Mr. Stewart know we were talking about
the grade down there, and you said that you
thought there was q difference of opinion about
where the grade had been, and you said you
had been misled in the matter by Mr.. Forsyth
in regard to Mr.. Hildreth's house. But, then,
did you say anything to me at any time that
would lead me to believe that there was such
fraud and corruption that the city was in dan
ger7
The Witness. have never said on the wit
ness-stand that there was such fraud and cor
ruption; but, dare say, as long as year ago
thought there were Irregularities. meant
10 go this morning and see Senator Morrill, and
see whether he recoilects an occurrence that
took place short time ago, before he went
away. went to him as chairman of the Com
mittee on Public Buildings and Grounds, he
being man in whose good opinion have great
faith, and told him that / believed that the
Board Of Public Works concerns were not
done with that accuracy which had been ac-
customed to before, and had an idea of re-
signing. The Senator told me afterward to
try and do the best could, and to hold on.
Q. II you had thought that your colleagues
Il mean the members of the Board of Public
Works-had been dishonest men, you would
have resigned, would you notl A. Yes, sir; If
had seen them steal.
@. If you had believed they were stealing,
you would have resigned If you had believed,
for instance, the Governor was stealing, don't
you believe you would have rendered your
resignation A. never thought of such q
thing; never allowed mpself to form such an
opinion.
Q. You believe him to be an honest man, do
youi A. believe every man to be honest
until proven to be dishonest.
Q. You have seen no evidence Of his dishon-
esty7 A. No, sir.
Q. Then, fyou had seen evidence of dishon-
esty anywhere, you would have resigned; you
would not have been associated with them and
taken this responsibility A. No, sir.
Q. When this investigation came on, and
Mr.. Msttingly suggested to you to come and
testify, why didn't you do that Did you not
think 1t was proper for all Of US to know
good, bad, or INTELLECTUALLY didn't you
come up and tell the story right QUIT What
was your objec.ioni We are all trying to find
out the truth about this matter. What was
your objectiorto telling of any irregularities or
frauds, or anything of that kind that existed
A. noticed there was an attempt to conceal
things. I have seen q couple Of times state
ments made under oath-for instance, in the
case Of Mr.. Sam. Strong, the Governor said he
had never seen the paper when he had signed
it. Then did not like to be in this position.
Q. Why didn't you come up and tell it right
outl You were under no obligation to keep
anything secreti A. knew that you knew
my direction If you had wanted me. You
know that am not afraid to say anything
anywhere. believe you have always known
me so.
Mr.. Stewart. don't believe you have been
afraid to talk, now since you have got here
to state anything you pleased.
The Witness. Or on any other case. When
| try to work for you, l try to work for your
best interests.
Governor Shepherd. have Just this moment
come in, and should like to have the witness
state what paper It was of Mr.. Strong's that
stated had not seen, but which had signed.
The Witness. Somehow or other paper had
been prepared up here, and had the signatures
Of Governor Shepherd and Mr.. Magruder to It.
1t came down to the Board of Public Works
for my signature by Charles 3. johnson, who
Is here, think. don't know how It was.
Governor Shepherd. desire the record to be
produced. do not want such Q statement as
that TO 60 out. 1t is false from beginning to
end; never said anything Of the kind; or
never spoke to this committee about It. /
Mr.. Stanton. The whole thing was gone over
here, and fully explained.
Governor Shepherd. Idemand that the record
be produced. .-.. -.
The Witness. hope It will. It was stated
here that the Governor had put his signature
to that paper. .
Governor Shepherd. Mr.. Harrington, one of
the counsel of the District, stated that had,
at his request to me, put my signature 10 that
paper; / made no statement In regard to 1t
whatever.
The Witness. / should like to see the testi-
mony.
Mr. Christy. The whole matter appears in
the testimony, and the point we made on 1t
was this: that Mr.. Magruder, called to make
an explanation, did not state that his name
was appended to the paper. That is the point
/ made as to Mr.. Magruder at the time, as
you will find 1t in the testimony.
Governor Shepherd, ito Mr.. Christy.l Did
make any statement about the matterl
Mr.. Christy. do not think you did.
Governor Shepherd. made no statement In
regard to It.
By Mr.. Stewart: Q. Is that the reason you
did not come up to testifyI A. 1t was not for
me to volunteer, as the counsel will say, state
evidence. / came here when was summoned
Mr.. Stanton. Mr.. Cluss has indicated that
as one Of the efforts at concealment. That Is
all. There was no concealment practiced.
The Witness. think It was an incorrect
statement.
By Mr.. Stewart: Q. You would not come
up here when Mr.. Mattingly aSked you. That
seems to be q little strange. Why didn't you
come up them A. have stated so.
@. You say that you were on friendly rela-
lions with them and are yet. You are men,
Der Of the board and have high responsibilities.
Did you decline to come them A. declined
to come. would rather be relieved from It
because knew my testimony could not be Of
much use to them.
Q. You were not going TO occupy the posi-
ton of defending or prosecuting anybody in
any way, were youl A. But in that fence mat
ter there was an advertisement offering to do
the work at much lower prices than were af-
terWard c1ven and I did not like to eXpose