National Republican. (Washington City (D.C.)) 1872-1888, 1874-04-16

not have known any tnluB VI shis AOsSSA e1AsAA
lam perfectly willing to state to the COM
mittee, also, any conversation that had with
Mr.. Chittenden, in Chicago, which led to the
destruction OF these letters, If they wish me to
do SO.
The Chairman. You may slate that If It was
in relation to these papers. A.. II was In re-
time when 1 showed the letter to Mr.. Gibson,
the correspondent Of the New York Sun, left
for Chicago the evening following. saw him
IN the evening and he requested me to let him
have a COPY of the letters. l told him that
had had copies ofthose letters myself, but that
they were safe in my keeping.
By the Chairman. q. You are talking now
about Mr.. Gibson. You had an interview with
him the night before you left for Chicagoi A.
Yes, sir; and told him that did not choose TO
commit them to the press. This is about all
the conversation / have had; and think the
last conversation we ever had. went to CHI
cago and spent some ten days there In settling
up business connected with our Affairs; and
had not seen Mr.. Chittenden then. At least l
had not recognized him or spoken 70 him for
several months had strong dislike for him,
and did not like to converse with him. But
saw this committee was being formed, and we
would all of us have to be witnesses, and DID
not wish myself to be called upon to testify 70
ANYTHING like hearsay. l was moro anxious
than the committee can be to know what had
become of that money andth proceeds of those
notes, for paid some of those notes myself. l
finally called upon him, and after little
yhile-at first he was reserved, but l made
him become interested In my conversation. L
told him that he would probably be compelled
to come here and disclose what had become OF
that money and the proceeds OF those notes.
He declined to have any conversation with me
at first upon that subject. l told him thought
7 sorhA n fnli furthermore.
that he might not be aware, but had letters OF
his in nv possession which contained various
statements that might be true or might be
false, and if he did not tell me would produce
those letters. At length he began to tell me
that he would disclose. He told me that ne
had received S25, 900 in all; $4,000 OF which ne
gave to Colonel Parsons here in Washington;
that afterward in July-he did not state the
time at which he received that $4,000, but
think il was some time in June, and that
in July he received q draft for SlO,OOO
more, which he inclosed to Colonel Par
cons, at Cleveland. Ohio, and that
he received another draft of $4,000, which he
sent to w. ColVin Brown. l had heard from
some source that he had never sent that to Mr..
Brown, but had retained $4,000 of it. Says /:
s'You did send that to Brown, you kept $4,000
of that money!" and he confessed, at length,
that he had, but with the consent of Brown,
and had sent his note for 5000 to Brown, In
lieu of IS, 900 in money, and that he was still
li.Sle upon that note. Then l asked him:
''That did you do with the hottest" Says l; u
have list of S72, 900 of notes which were
handed to you here in chicago, anu araTn W ~
DeGolyer s. Mcclellan, and made payable 10
your order, and Endorsed by them" Says he:
~ took those to Washington and handed them
to Col. A. B, Kirkland ;" "Well, !" says /, "what
became of the hottest" Says he: "You know he
arterward sold to Ira Holmes" Said /: "Weil,
what became of the proceeds!" He said: u do
not know" Said 1: 'Did you receive any por,
of Public Worksl 'fNo." Anybody con-
nected with it," "Not to my knowledge"
"No.b Says /, "Chittenden, want to know
now whether you are telling me the TRUTH
He said every word he said was true. That
was about the end of the conversation. After.
ward, in thinking the matter over, concluded
that great many wrong inicrences might DC
drawn from statements made in those letters
in connection with parties in Washington, &c.
| i'm connection with Colonel Parsons and Gen.
era! Garfield and 1 destroyed them. l de-
s;royed the letters and. the copies which had
That is the only statement which l have 70
make.
By Mr.. Bass: Q. Because you believed that
| the allegations as TO Colonel Parsons and zen
eral Garfield were not truthfully stated in
the lettersl A. do not suppose that Mr.
l
be drawn from those statements which would
be entirely false.
By Mr.. Thurman: Q. Where is this Mr.. Kirt,
landl A. do not know, sir. think have
not seen him since last July.
O. What relation had he with Chittenden Oh
DeGolyer g. Mcclellan? A. 1 do not know
that he had any special relations with them!
think he was one of those harpies that in1est
Washington that we have all seen.
| Q. How came he to have those notes in his
possession A. DO not know, sir.
@. You say that Chittenden told you that
the notes were sold to a man named Holiness
A. That Kirkland took them to Chicago and
sold them to Ira Holmes. That is a fact.
know that myself.
By Mr.. Stewart: Q. Ira Holmes has them7
A. Yes; and Kirkland told me here in Wash
ington that he had sold them to Holmes.
By Mr.. Thurman: Q. He got them dis,
counted A. No, sir. -
o, He lust sold them to him as an individual
| A. He sold them to him for little money, as
Mr.. Holmes told me; some land and some
horses. He made trade; traded them of fol
property and little money.
Q. Were DeGolyer s. Mcclellan not sufh-
GENTLY responsible to meet that debit A. Al
the time that paper was given they were per
| fectly good.
Mr. Bass. They have taken it up.
By Mr.. Stewart Q. They have given up theil
| worksl A. Yes, sir; they were good.
BY Mr.. Thurman: Q. That paper was con
sidered goods A. Their paper was good at that
time.
BY Mr.. Stewart: Q. How long have you
known Mr.. Kirtlandl A. l never knew him
until met him here in Washington last May,
| when he introduced himself to me. He called
at my rooms at Willard's.
| Q. Do you know anything about his BUSINESS
A. No, sir; he apparently had no business, ex-
cept as a hanger-on around Washington.
| By Mr.. Jewett: Q. Where was he FRONT
A. He is from Greenbush, opposite Albany, in
the State of New York, as he told me.
| By Mr.. Stewart: Q. Did you have any con-
| versation with him as to how he came to buy
the hottest A. tried to ascertain from him a
ndmbcrrof times what his interest was, &C.,
and, says he, 81 suppose you know all about
| that" says I, 'iNo, do not" swell, then,
says he, "you learn elsewhere" and l never
could extract anything from him.
By Mr.. Stewart: Q. Did Mr.. Chittenden give
you any reason why he gave those notes to
Kirtlandl A. No, sir.
BY Mr.. Thurman: O. Was this man Kirt-
land lobbyist at Washington A. think so.
Q. About Congress, or about the Depart
ments, or the city government A. think he
was general lobbyist, picking up job when
ever he could get chance.
Q. How long had he been pursuing that vo-
| cation herei A. do not remember. l do not
suppose that this would be evidence, but
would like to make statement to the CON-
mittee that believe Mr.. Kirkland and some
party or parties outside, that no one of us
know, deceived Chittenden in that matter. He
may have shared portion of it himself, but I
do not believe that It went anywhere near any
parties that were really influential In Wash
ington.
Q. Is Chittenden, do you think, green enough
to be caught in that wayl A. do, sir. He
is q man Of great egotism, but man Of good
deal of ability, too. He is a man who could be
deceived.
By MIR. Merrick: Q. Do you think he is
greener than Mcclellan A. Mcclellan was
completely magnetized by Mr.. Chittenden; he
and DeGOlyer both. For a while he could do
anything be chose with them. Mcclellan is a
very cautious man, and the responsible man of
that firm. How he came to put his name to
that paper cannot imagine, except that he
was magnetized.
By Mr.. Christy: wish you would describe
Mr.. Chittenden. A. Oh, you have had him de-
scribed, Mr.. Christy. --,
The Chairman. Mr.. Chittenden is here.
The Witness. Then he will be examined, and
you will sec him yourself.
By the Chairman: Q. You have stated,
suppose, to US substantially what you know
about these mattersi A. have stated to you
all that know, and good deal that have