The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1874-03-03

The War Of Bismarck Against
the Papaoy.
THE EXPULSION OF TIE JESUITS.
A Catholic View of the
Situation.

BERLIN, Feb Is, 1874.
1t appeared to mo, a. sat yesterday in Mr.. Ban
croft's study at the United States Legation. In
Berlin that republican Institutions make q very
nne kind OF gentleman. The American Minister
had received me as correspondent OF the NEW
YORK HERALD with great kindness and cordially,
and there, face to face with me- with the grasp Of
his friendly hand still lingering on mine. l saw .
type OF diplomatists ~ frank as Palmerston, as
pleasant as Granville. Mr.. Bancroft is quiet, dis
tinguished looking man, very upright, very
straightforward In manner. with well modulsted
voice and certain easy grace about him which Is
extremely winning. 1 found the American Min.
ister hard ct work with his secretary, yet
quite willing to spare enough time to
give me every Information could require
as . representative Of the American press,
and in 80 doing he showed the wide distinction
which exists between an able man who Ia thor
oughly up to his work and . weak man who is
overwhelmed BY weighty business, and kicks about
as though he were being crushed beneath It. have
seen too many dpomatists of the latter sort not
to have felt some admiration for Mr.. Bancros
when he paused good humoredly over his
dispatches and talked fully without halt hesita-
ton, upon subjects which were not, perhaps. juss
then uppermost in his thoughts.
Mr.. NICHOLAS FIsH.
Before had been long with him q handsome
youngster came into the room with some oflcial
document for the Minister'S signature. gathered
that 1t had reference to the case of an American
subject who had applied to the United States Lega
ton for help In some difficulty and had got
1t in prompt and hearty manner
which he certainly would not have got
from the representative Of any other country
Mr.. Bancroft. in accordance with American
custom, which has fallen into disuse In England,
<lav
as Mr.. Fish. lie seemed model Of strength,
health, good spirits and good breeding. write
this because he must have many friends in Amer
lea, who will be glad to hear that he Is well on
good terms with his chief and is much liked NJ
Berlin both personally and as prominent mem
Der OF the American Legation.
MR. BANCROFTs VIEWS ON GERMAN AFFAIRS.
The unguarded utterances OF statesman 80 high
in ONCE As Mr.. Bancroft cannot properly be re-
ported to u newspaper; but may say, trust with
out any breach OF confidence, that Mr.. Bancroft Is
of opinion that the Prussian government Will sue
coed In establishing its supremacy over the Church
In this country. l ventured to remind him, as
had previously reminded Prince Bismarck that an
attempt to bring about the complete sub
ordination OF the Church to the State is an
experiment which has been often tried
In history, but never with permanent success, ana
that q sense Of not unreasonable alarm would al
ways be produced on the minds OF men by any in
reference with their religious convictions. Mr..
Bancroft replied that the endeavor to put down
the authority Of the Ca th0lic Church had been re-
peatedly made in various countries and had sue
ceeded. asked him II he thought 1t had been per-
manently successful, and observed that the Pope
certainly continued to exercise considerable au-
thority in the British d0minionss did not clearly
comprehend the Minister'S reply to this ques-
20
1t. ! submitted to him, however. that
Archbishop LedOcnOwsh was under trial before
q new tribunal Tor new offence never contem-
pressed strong doubt whether the proceedings
taken against HIM were not altogether illegal Mr..
Prussian government had acted with great cir.
cumspectlOn, and that the measures they had
taken were strictly legal. Be this as 1t may 1t is
can only be condemned by e1 post Jdcto legis:a-
tiOn and that II any man can be judged by o new
ness for him and Tor his country. Now Prince
Bismarck has himself stated to me that ''the new
laws are the 1ang Of Ioe
thoughtful persons to decide whether new laws
can falrly be made to try actions which refer to
past events.
THR LAWS OF GOD OR MANI
The question which Is now agtating Germany,
and which threatens more than any other to break
up the Empire into divisions passionately hostile
to each other, is not question Of party civil or
ecclesiastical in any country, nor is IT one OF
the law OF God is superior to the law OF man, and
whether nations shall be ruled by human or divine
spiritual power in the midst OF q temporal power
and apart from 1t. Macaulay has very fine argu-
he was not Roman Catholic, that the Papal
authority offered the only refuge always open to
the oppressed under the military despotism or the
Middle Ages military despotsm now exists in
Prussia little differing, In many respects, from the
government or leudal times, and so, should Prince
Bismarck tor time contrive to suppress the Roman
Catholic priesthood in Prussia there will be no
asylum open to the victims OF arbitrary power
during that period ROD o,u,, u.uo.
Bearing this fact IN mind, am not writing from
an American or German point of view. 1 am
going to sder the question in the interests OF
modern Christian civilization. II the laws recently
introduced to the Landtag 0y the Prussian gov
upright man would feel bound Dy his conscience TO
oppose them. Under no circumstances could they,
OF ought they, to be seduccd into connlvanee with
arbitrary power or into giving their countenance
to an apology Tor persecution.
CATHOLIC COALITION.
am well informed that no large body OF either
Catholics or PrOtestants desires any change in the
relations which have hitherto existed between
Church and State In Prussia, and 1t would have
been we'll il Prince Bismarck had taken to heart
the Latin proverb, "Qutet q non naoUere," or the
snrewa advos o Lora Melbourne % 70 msdde
did not want doing, Cant you let II alonef"
Unfortunately the German mind lacks the sharp
common sense winch characterizes the Anglo
1t is right now to mention that the warfare upon
against the Cathohc Church is not crusade for the
overthrow OF the Papal power In Germany. 1t is
effort to put all churches under 0ficlai DONNA
ton. In dealing 30 harshly as he has done with
the Catholic clergy Prince Bismarck has had but
one object In view, VIZ. the establishment OF the
supremacy OF the State-that Is to say, Of some
half dozen Official persons-over all forms Of re-
lgiOn and the consolidation OF the military power
OF the Empire into an irresistible force. In judy
ing the new ecclesiastical laws now before the Diet
their supporters, VINO rather shrink from the
spoDslbllity they have incurred, require all persons
n % to In a al n maj
ton, and that legislation in great emergencies is
necessarily de ectlve in It's details. This plea does
not appear to me to hold good Every nation
Is always in q state OF transition and
emergencies do not Justify bad laws. Moreover, l
have already shown that there was no emergency
which required the passing OF the new ecclesasti-
cal avs but from the moment they come into effect