National Republican. (Washington City (D.C.)) 1872-1888, 1874-05-25

fast that you could not recover from the shock
of one before another as do3ei A. Yes, sir.
4 @. You were hit 50 rapidly that you were
down all the timei A. was never down. T
was always up. / an so STILL,
/ Q. Were you uprighti A. Upright, sir.
] Q. Now, these estimates and Measurements
which you approved, are they right A. To
the best of my knowledge.
Q. You now say they were right. There was
nothing wrong about any of theml A. II an
error occurred IL certainly is an exception, and
correctness Is the rule.
| Q. Including those which you stated the
other day were wrong, and which you had
never approved Of, and never stgned' A Yes,
Q. You consider that they are right now.
You now correct your testimony in chief by
saying that these measurements which you
pronounced wrong, and which yod declared you
never had approved, all are right, and you did
approve Of themi A. I do not know what you
nave reference to. Whose measurements
| y. nave reference to certain measurements
and estimates upon which you denied that you
had anything to do, and went back upon them
and SAID you were not responsible for them;
that you had never signed any approval, and
when the paper was produced to you YOU ad-
mitted that you hadl A. There is that single
case in this large bundle of papers. When Il
was presented to my Office, no records being
there, and having been made up there az an
official formality, was requested to sign those
balances from avenues. They were balances;
they were not the measurements themselves,
to the best OF my knowledge.
| Q. There was one paper, very important
zone, which you said you had signed without
understanding it, because you had only eight
days to examine, and another which you said
you had signed on the first of November, and
which had been presented to YOU only on the
last of October, and you had sat up all night
A.. That Is correct.
Q. And had not been able to understand,
and you put your name to it, nevertheless.
NOW, when these papers WIRE handed to you
Tor examination and approval, were they not
handed to you with the understanding that
you were to approve and did approve Of them
as you would find II right to dos A. Anybody
who sees that mass of figures, those columns
of figures, would see that it was impossible
for me, and that had TO rely upon the conf
DENTAL assistant, Mr.. Oertly, whom the Gov
ernor had done the honor of deputizing.
| 2. Answer in general terms, now !: had you
not just as good right to say no as to say yes
when you were asked If these papers were cor
ceci A. had a right, of course, to refuse,
| but my desire at that time was not to interfere
with the operations of the government, because
had no positive proofs, in fact no proof at all
from which l could infer that anything was
done carelessly. Therefore I was certainly
justified in relying upon the first assistant of
the Office and afixing my official signature.
Q. And you approved them, then, because
you believed them a. the time to be right A.
Yes, sir.
O. You believe them now to be ri. htl A.
We'll, do hot know.
Q. Now, you believe them to be right, or have
you changed your mind about that A. After
have seenthose careless measurements against
the Government, my confidence Is shaken, and
If would have seen this before, l never should
have signed those papers in such hasty man
ner as they were presented to me.
Q. Then these papers were wrong after slli
A. do not say they are right or wrong. My
confidence is shaken in them since 1 saw this
volume of testimony in here.
Q. II they are wrong, who Is responsible for
them; the man who solemnly under his ofi,ial
oath said they were right, or somebody elsei
A. have stated distinctly the circumstances
The Secretary Of the Treasury, believe, has
in the same way signed the Sanborn contracts
because he has put right before him q couple
of hundred day,
Q. Do you think an officer is morally or in
tellectually competent for his place who will
sign paper without knowing whether it is
right or wrong, and an important paper; the
validity and effect of which depends upon his
.signaturel Is II not as bad as giving q tudg-
ment without evidence, and false judgment
| at thatl A. l had o right, you know, at.thlt
time to rely upon my first assistants.
Q. You had right to rely upon themi Have
you right to deny the integrity of these gen.
tlemeui A. Not integrity, but the accuracy Of
| these statements.
Q. Have you any more right to doubt their
accuracy than they have to doubt yours when
there is a difference of opinion between you
| and them on q subject which they have sctu-
ally examined and you have not7 A. He is
subordinate Of ming. 1 am chief. My word
rule; therefore did not discuss the matter with
him.
Q. After having received this appointment
you cclhded, it seems, very fully in the integ-
rity of your associates, did you noti A. I GER
tainly did.
Q. In all of themi A. Yes, sir. Ihad known
Mr.. Oertly for many years to be the measurer
of the Treasury Department, and so certainly
had a fair right to infer that he was careful.
Q. Not only the subordinates of your office,
but in your associates-the gentlemen who were
associated with you on the Board of Public
Worksl A. 1 have stated that before.
| Q. You did, A. Yes, sir.
Q. You answered in the aflrmatiYel A.
| Yes, sir.
Q. Then you wen. on very tremendously
with them for length Of time, did you mt
A. Up 10 this day have never had any tro.-
bic with either of them of any great effect,
though always firmly and earnestly asserted
my rights wheneverthe question seemed TO be
imperious.
". 4Ou OOh IucIn Win 0Hyl0llG
that Is even irregular In their conduct now; are
we to understand thatl A. | have blamed the
system And not the men. say the system Is
one which tends to faVoritism, and Is bound 10
dead the best men TO corruption In tho end.
have nothing % say against the mn, but
against the system.
Q. Then the system was as well administered
BY them a. such system could bel A. [
think 50; 81 Is this mode of doing business DO
not approve Of. That is what say. Shallths
same question be repeated 10 me three times
after have answered IL for the purpose Of get
ting conflicting testimony out Of me.
Q. They and you were engaged together IN
the administration Of q system which was
essentially defective, and must lead to bad re-
suRsl A. In the end.
2. They and you were both engaged I'm the
administration Of that systeml A. Yes, sir.
Q. You being principally responsible for
whatever there was wrong about It . a. did
not say that.
Q. understood you to say that the engineer
was much the most important officer In tie
boarif A. Yes, sir.
Q. In regard To It's financial resuItsl A. In
regard 10 its financial results; do not mean
that; mean so far u the improYements-the
streets and sewers are concerned. In financial
matters the vice president has so far taken tho
exclusive lead.
Q. You and they were engaged together in
the ADMINISTRATION OF TINS System, ana you COM
init irregularities altogetherf
The Witness. All Of US you meant
Mr.. Black. Yes, sir; all Of you. A Yes, sir;
am ready TO take my share OF the blame.
Better late than never.
Q. Did not these irregularities consist almost
entirely iii your failure to perform your dutyI
A. No, sir.
Q. Then who was it that caused any failurel
A. l have stated SO many details that It IL
hardly worth while to waste the time to go
over them again.
@. 1t was not the duty of any other member
Of the Board OF Public Works to examine
and approve the measurements A. You just
now
Q. Did not the vice president OF the Board OF
Public Works refer these subjects 10 YOU
things about which you
found fault; and did you not examine tho
subject; and had they not the right to suppose,
after you had examined them, that you had
given your approval conscientiouslyf A. The
vice president in referring these papers 10 me
was well aware that u was utterly impossible
for any human being to go into the dstails of
these measurements.
Q. Then he supposed you were so much of q
rogue that you would do it without knowing
anything about IN A. They thought, upon