The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1874-03-20
THE EIGHTH WARD SHAME.
Disgraceful Scene Yesterday at
the Board of Education.

degree which may be most surprising 10 New
Workers. little explanation may be necessary
to the which led TO the scene. II is already
known to The readers Of the HERALD that the
Board OF Education has been pursuing an
inquiry into the amount Of evil which the children
who attend the public schools in the Fifteenth and
Eighth wards are subjected to in consequence Of
the vicinage Of houses OF ilfame to the schools
The proof was readily obtained in the case OF the
Fifteenth ward. and the names OF the owners OF
houses which were let for Illicit purposes were dis.
covered ana they have been indicted. In the case
OF the Eighth ward the burden OF proof however,
has been somewhat more
DIPFIcUrr TO FIND,
and the Committee on Bylaws, which is pursuing
this investigation, and which has prosecuted the
matter steadily, alter the examination Of a num-
Der OF witnesses whose testimony went directly to
show the evils resulting from the causes men,
toned found itself brought to stanastin in the
matter IN the absence OF absolute proof OF the
owners, occupants and lessees OF these houses.
Captain Williams. OF the Eighth precinct police,
was called upon to give this Information.
He answered that In the absence or orders
from his superiors lie could not give the
Information needed, though stating that he
was in tile possession OF complete list
OF the houses OF illiame in his ward together with
The Board OF Education, therefore. communicated
with the Board OF Police asking the latter to au-
thorlze Captain Williams to give the lnlormatl on
needed. Police Commissioner Gardner answered
taat Ut the next meeting OF the Board the subject
would be brought up, and the result was letter
yesterday addressed to Lawrence d. Herman
Clerk or the Board of Educatlon. from Seth q.
Hawley, ClerS o; the Board OF Police Commission
ers, saying that at the next OF the commit
tee Captains Williams, OF the Eighth precinct. and
Byrne OF the Fifteenth, had been ordered to be
present and to give all the information needed.
This session OF the committee took place yesterday
AFTERNOON. ana the TWO captains We're present.
OF the Committee on Bylaws, Messrs. Townsend,
chairman and FAIR, West and Mann were in at
tendance. There was also numerous attend
OF property owners and witnesses, all OF whom
took the most lively interest III the proceedings
The session began few minutes past Jour and
CAPTAIN WILLIAMS WAS CALLED 10 THE STAND.
He answered TO his name and WAS sworn according
to the usual formula. Alter the giving OF the
name occupation and residence, Captain Williams
who bore himself III an openly defiant manner, was
asked how many houses OF ili1ame existed al pres
ent in the Eighth precinct
Captain WILLIAAs-rhere exist at present in my
precinct eighty three houses OF lll-iame.
QUEsTlON-Where are they lOcatedY
Captain WILLIAAs-ln Mercer, Greene, Wooster,
Thompson, sullivan and Blocker streets.
QUEsrION-These houses, then, are Kept openly to
the knowledge OF The authorltiesH
Captain WHLIANs--Why, OF course, we know all
about them.
QUEsrIoN-Can you inform US VINO owns these
houses. together with the names OF the occupants
Captain WILLIAMs-1 know who owns them, or
QUEsrIoS~wiii you give US this information
Captain WILLIAAs-rm not authorized to do
that.
At this answer the Commissioners looked at
each other, and Mr., Townsend went on with his
questions.
..have you not made out a complete list Of these
house aud their ownrcs and occupantsf"
Captain WILIJAMs.-Yes, have. and what's more
I've got the list III my pocket.
MIR. TOwNSEND--WIl sou furnish 1t to u5f
captain WILLIAMS won't do 1t without orders
from the superintendent OF the Commissioners
THE LETTER FROM SETH c. HAwLEY,
Clerk OF the Board Oh Ponce, was SnOWu Captain
Williams. lie looked at 1t superciliousiy and threw
IL on the table.
II don't care nothing Tor that he said.
'iou mean 10 say" said Mr.. Townsend, "that
you refuse TO act IN accordance with tae orders
Those amt no orders l came to give all the
information that was asked to give. Nobody told
me to give up my list"
..But we can't proceed without the list" said
Mr.. Townsend.
yez when get orders 70 90 so. ana not before.
wasn't told to give up my list"
Mr. IOWNsEND-Has any one instructed you not
to give up the list OF houses OF tu-1ame in your
precinct which you say you have IN your pocket?
captain WILLIANs-l decline to answer that ques.
ton.
Tnere was pause OF astonishment at the impu.
dence OF toe poice captain. Then came another
Mr.. 1owNsEND-Why do you refuse to answer the
last question
mir. TOWNSEND lin his bandest manner) But,
my dear sir, ii this is the manner III which You
treat our questions this INQUIRY becomes lmposs;.
you 1t is OF no use going on.
captain WILLIAxs-l don't refuse to answer no
Mr.. lowNsEsD- Thus far we nave not elected
from you any information such as we want
that we should have adjourned until to-day simply
to obtain your testimony and be answered IN this
manner. This inquiry has been going on some
time, but We can go no iurtaer without specific
Information.
Mr.; MANN-You see, Mr. oncer the powers of
this Board are clrcumscrlDed. We can DO nothing
against these Institutions OF which You reuse to
give Us the list without We have particulars the
names OF owners and occupants. with these We
can get them indicted; without, we can 90 moth
ing. We are assembled here to Go away or tO cur
tall great evil. We have nothing 10 do with the
existence OF houses OF Ill fame generally speaking.
Bnt where We mud that they are running our
children oy the force or bad example,
where they are conaregating about our schools
In sucn numbers tnat IL Is Impossible Ior the
most innocent not 10 Jecoine iamiliar Win this
most degrading form of vice. we ind that We must
There are no reporters OF the press here and what
ever Information You give Is perfectly sure not to
get out. la t1Is we ask you 10 help US aad TO give
Us that ala winch can oniy De obtained from you,
and you reuse 10 let Us have list which you pos
sess IN yCur pocket.
Captain WiLLIhMs-I can't help that Pa not
agoing 10 give my iist up.
Mir. WEsr-lt appears TO me you are taxing here
a very extraordinary course III refusing necessary
information 20 a public board working Tor tne pub.
lie good. We want no Information iof wrong pur-
poses. But goa coBe here
WITH AN INSULTING MANNER,
aud seem To depend Oh your position to shield you.
There Is something higher than captain OF
police, and | 90 nOt believe your superiOrs can
countcnance YOU IN your action here To-Day.
Captain WiLLIAGs-i made list short time ago
and gave IL to the District Attorney. He can give
IL TO you Ii he wants TO, but I'm not agolng to do
what don't think Pm officially Obliged to.
Mr.. TowNshSD-But we want direct testimony.
II we get tae District Attorneys list VIII you
swear to lty
CAPTAIN WLLlAMs--n see it Is the list made
out, yes.
Mr. TowSsEND-Then it would save much trouble
and accomplish the same end It you were TO gave
US the one sou have.
Captain WILLiAhs--That's what won't do.
MI. To%NaEND-Ihen let US 90 on to another
branch oil the case You are, OF course, acquainted
with the location OF the SCHOOLS III your precinct.
DO you know OF any houses oi ll-iane Within three
blocks OF any OF tHenn.
captain Williams thought for y lew moments and
sad
eyes. know house OF ill.fame one block aud
O hail from tue SCHOOL"
Mr. TowHsESD-Wiil you tell US who owns IT.
Captain WILLIAAs--No,
OWN you tell us the number and name OF the
occupant
captain WfLL1ANs-So.
IA Htsgal has Avs has lx.s