National Republican., 1874-05-21

Q. Whose duty was Il, under the organiza-
tion of the board, TO look to this matter OF
measurements, and to detail the men to make
the measurementsf A. It'was my duty, my
responsibility.
Q. Did you designate Mr.. Osrtly to make
these measurements for tsIese contractors
whom you have namedi A. / did not.
Q. Who did III A. He told me that-when
the thing went on for some time, and found
very large bills entered In the books which /
never had seen an application for, or anything
-he told me afterward that he had done that
under the orders of the vice president. l could
not blame him for it.
BY the Chairman: Q. What were these bills
you speak Of that you found on the booksl A.
These bills were principally those Of Mr.. Albert
Gleason and John o. Evans.
BY Mr.. Wilson: Q. At what time were these
measurements made with reference to Govern
meut appropriations or moneys received from
Government appropriations A. That Is rather
hard for me to say, because one of the diff
culties had in having order in my office.
found on one morning came there and was
trying to find Mr.. 0,rtiy at his desk. He was
of, and wouldn't see him again for a week or
q long time. When l would ask for him,
found he was on some Government measure
ment under the orders of the vice president.
Q. Was there order or arrangement by the
board with reference 10 the persons to whom
money should be paid that was appropriated
bv the Goyernmentf A. No. one word was
passed officially.
@. There was no system, then, by which the
contractors were paid IN the order of their in
debtedness-in the order of the date of their
certificates A. l am entirely ignorant of what
has been done in that respect. l frequently
thought that, like in any public institution,
that the acc )unts of the treasurer should be
audited once year, but 1t was not done.
N 1c .
been audited that you have any knowledge of
A. No, sir; not since have been member. of
the board.
Q. Has there ever been anything said on that
subject A. 1 have frequently mentioned 1t to
DR.. Blake and Mr.. Willard since last summer,
but was uniformly told that we were follow
ing out a system adoptep before we became
members, and the system was so admirable
that it could not be improved upon.
Q. Who measured the work of the Evans
Concrete Company! A. Mr.. William Forsyth.
Q. Under whose direction was that doncl A.
Under the direction of Mr.. Henry A. Willard,
most likely, or on the order of the Governor.
am certain did not designate him.
By the Chairman: Q. Did you object to his
being designatedi A. did not know he was
designated. only found the bills when they
were measured.
ByMr. Wilson: Q. When they were returned
to the Office? A. Yes, sir.
By the Chairman: Q. Did you certify to themi
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you refuse TOT A. They were never
presented TO me. If they have been passed, ii
was without my notice.
Q. Certified by Mr.. Forsyth A. Yes, sir
that is TO say, partial measurements may have
| been signed by me.
O. You say there was a million of dollars
A. AL Of the Evans concrete contracts. :
Q. They We're measured 6Ser-thc final esti
mate-by Mr.. Forsyth A. Yes, sir.
Q. Certified to by himl A. Yes, sir.
By Mr.. Wilson: Q. Do you know the process:
BY which Mr.. Forsyth determined the length
of haul in matters of gradel A. do not see
| at all how he can determine the length oi
haul. He must take the statement of the con.
tractor, not having been connected with the
work as It progressed, because, In fact, you
know, cases have been pointed out to me.
remember just now-let me see, l would say
about q couple of weeks ago-a property
holder came to me-and he Is also small
contractor, believe-and told me that he had
seen somehow or other that for grading at the
south of Rawlings square, Mr.. Forsyth had
allowed q haul of 5000 feet, while he knew
very well, from his personal knowledge, that
1t came from the next square. This man Ia
named Clark; John H., 1 think. ..-
Q. Have you any personal knowledge In re-
gard to thstl A. No, sir.
Q. Have you ever examined the voucher In
that case, or any of the papers, to see how
much haul was allowed therel A. examined
the voucher, and found such largo haul was
actually paid for. The quantity was not very
great, but instance this as an Illustration.
Q. State if you have discovered any mis-
takes that Mr.. Forsyth has madea A. Ere
quently.
Q. Where are theyi A. When got to have
charge of the engineers office, think one OF
the very first bills that came into my hands
was for the wood pavement of DeGolyer &
Mcclellan, on Pennsylvania avenue east.
found mistake in the surface measured-ar
overcharge of about four thousand yards Of
wood pavement. Mr.. Forsyth came to me and
tried to bully me down, and said for twenty
five years his figures had never been ques-
toned, and this was not going to be done here
after. told him he hadn't found the right
man, and unless he corrected his own state
ment, should throw his voucher In the fire
and make correct one. communicated this
fact to Mr.. Shepherd. Ue afterward told me
TO please go myself over the whole street, and
make the measurement IN detail. I did so.
made the measurement on a cold winter day
about New Years, 1878. / found that those
measurements which I had checked of from
the map were correct, and the oyercharge was
there, whereupon the bill was passed In It's true
shspe-in its corrected form. The men have
not got one yard too much.
Q. Do you know any other mistakes he
NADER A. Shortly after that there was another
case. think It was Mr.. Frank II. Smith. He
had a contract for NJ street, Just east Of the NJ
street bridge and Georeown. do not know
how 1t came, but Mr.. Forsyth gave the meas
urement to Mr.. Smith, most likely without its
being called for. ] at the same time had q cor
rect measurement made out at the Office.
There was o difference again, In plain sur
face measurement, Of between 900 and 2 900
yards of wood pavement. Mr.. Smith, of course,
after he had seen the largo bill, did not like
to take anything less, and so the vice
president referred this to Mr.. Willard,
believe, but in the meantime / settled this
matter with Mr.. Smith. / found that the
small amount of work had been done twice
You know, If any member of the committee
is conversant with the fact, there was wooden
pavement laid from Twenty second street to
the M-street bridge. In the Mstreet bridge
there was a big fill of twenty feet. Il seems
Mr.. Smith had laid It twice, once In the fall
and in the spring, and that had settled and he
laid It once more; and, with the exception OF
this, 1t was found our measurement was cor
rect, and SO it went to Mr.. Smith. The case
has been disposed of. The measurement was
incorrect. Isis all correct now.
Q. Was he paid according to the correct
measurement A. Yes, sir. .
Q. Are there any other cases of that kindi
A. The third case that / remember of is this:
there was q case of another Smith, I do not
remember what his christened name is, be-
lieve William, on street, between Second and
Third. There was square there Just q GER
tain length and certain width, and there was
an over-messurement at that place of over four
hundred square yards of wood pavement.
had It corrected again. These cases being all
in o short time, insisted that another man
should be appointed to make these measure
ments, and I saw Mr.. Charles E. Barney, whom
considered q very reliable and competent
gentleman, and had him have exclusive charge
Of that part In my branch Of service.
Q. Did Mr.. Forsyth make any measurements
after thatl A. Not under my direction.
Q. Did he make any under anybody's d!rec-
tionsl A. believe the committee are aware
that he was put in charge Of all the Govern.
ment measurement, and attending TO some
special cases like the Evans Concrete Com
psny. In fact have, perhaps once or twice,
had papers referred TO him, where he had COM
menced work, and IL was difficult for Mr.. Bar
ney TO make mathematical and exact esti-
mate. which he ALWAYS tries to do.
Q. What do you know in regard to this
measurement on Massachusetts, avenue east,
tnat has been inquired about here by the COM
mittee, where there was subsequent arbitra-
tionl A. That is one OF the cases which Mr..
Forsyth had commenced. l did not see that
there was any hurry for 1t, because this work
IA incomnlcfe Mt this time Anyhoy tho rom