Nashville union and American. [volume] (Nashville, Tenn.) 1868-1875, 1873-01-09
WASHINGTON.
The Credit MObilier Muddle.
Further Testimony Of j. B. Alley.
How Jim Fisk Tackled the Union
Pacific.

Alley was resumed. He said that up to
Dec, 1867, Credit Mobilier shares had no
market value. He knew that shares were
sold at 95 and the same were offered at
Is. But lase in Dec, 1857, after Ames
agreed upon basis, the stock rose in value,
bringing 16O and in January 2C0 and later
225.
The chairman having asked a question
relative to the 100 shares standing in the
name Of Nelson, son-in-law of James
Brooks, witness said he had no personal
knowledge as to who was the original OWL
er of them or whe paid for them. 1t ap-
peared on the books that Nelson was the
owner and was entitled to so shares
more; that there was no conversation be-
tween the witness and Brooks in relation to
these 80 shares Of Nelson. He presumed
Nelson paid for the shares.
MIR. McCrary asked witness whether he
knew how many shares of Credit Moblier
were disposed of to members of Congress.
Answer-Ames' subscription l believe
was on the books, and HOoper's, Grimes
and my own. Senator Wilson agreed to
take 20 shares and Dawes 10 shares. l
took 500 shares, but they were not all for
myself. After Jan. 1. 1868. l do not, know
that any were sold to any member OF Con-
gress at par. l did not know that the sue
cess or failure of the road would depend on
friendly or unfriendly legislation. 1t did
not occur to me that any further legislation
would be required. and none as to pecuniary
matters of the company. liza full inVesti-
cation could be made in regard to this sub
ject, the public would have been better sat-
isfed ESPECIALLY after the McComb suit was
instituted, which gave rise to SO much ap-
prehension.
The removal of the office Of the Union
Pacific Railroad Company to Boston was
matter Of life and death to the Company,
to keep it out of the clutches Of Judge Bar
nar1 and Fisk. Fisk wanted witness to
settle with him for hundred thous and, but
| witness said be would never be willing for
the Company to pay him single cent, say
ing to Fisk, "Au your interest is on $240."
Fisk replied it was matter of dollars, and
if the Company would not give him hun
dred thousand he would damage it to the
extent of million, and Fisk did damage it
TO the amount Of several millions by his
raids.
Witness was asked whether he did not
get and have under his control one hundred
! thousand dollars to cause an annullment Of
| the Secretary of the Treasury's ruling as 10
interest on the Union Pacific Government
| bonds, to which he answered that so far IS
be was concerned he challenged investiga-
ton. He never had any money, not dol
lar, to use directly or indirectly for s1ch
purpose, nor did he believe Ames had the
Slightest idea of influencing the legislation
Of Congress by allowing his friends to have
stock.
Witness said he sold bis stock at 200 in
January, 1865. His impression was it in
cluded all dividends as he himself never got
anv dividends Of the stock thus sold. He
sold this stock to Peter Butler Of Boston,
who, he understood, bought it for BardWel
Of that city.
Queslion-Do you know how much mo-
ney Oakes Ames put into the Credit Mob
ilier stock?
Answer-I do not. The books show.
do not know of my personal knowledge
that he paid Sl00 share for every share Of
stock issued TO him.
Question-Did you not say yesterday that
he put in five or six million dollars only?
Answer No, sir. l did say his in
diyidual interest in the Al million contract
was between FIVE and six million dollars,
and my own individual interest less than
half million.
Adjourned till tomorrow.
Anies Corrects Himself
Mr.. Ames yesterday corrected that por-
ton Of his testimony in relation to Scho-
field of Pennsylvania. 1t seems that Scho-
field gave Ames 1000 dollars TO buy some
of the Credit Mobilier stock, and took a
receipt therefor, bat upon examination he
declined to take the risk, and not having
received the stock nor any dividend, the
money was returned 10 him by Mr.. ADes,
and be gave up the receipt.
Lawyers Appointed to Suc the Credit
MObiIier.
In accordance with the resolution
adopted by the House of Representatives
last Monday, requesting the President to
employ two attorneys 10 commence suit
against tie Credit Mobiiier and its stock
holders corporately and individually, in the
proper court or courts, in order to recover
what may be due or what may become
due to the Union Pacific Railroad in law
or equity the President it is understood, has
selected and appointed Hon. Aaron T.
Perry, ex-member of Congress, of Gin
ciuDaii, and Gen. Harlan Of Kentucky.
Views of Distinguished Bankers Con.
ceraing she Syndicate.
William B. Duncan, of the Banking firm
of Duncan, Sherman & Co., Of New York,
and Mr.. Joseph Patterson, senior member
of the Banking firm of Patterson d Co., of
Philadelphia, appeared before the Commit
tee on Ways and Means this morning in re-
sponse to invitation by the committee, and
expressed their views on the subject of re-
funding six per cant into five per cent
bonds. Chairman Dawes remarked that
the committee desired to have the views OF
gentlemen eminent in financial matters in
the great cities who were not all identified
with the operations of the sO-c2lled syndi-
cate, when the subject was gone into at
considerable length. The substance Of the
opinions given was that the effect Of the
operations through the syndicate was to
take United States bonds out OF the hands
of small investors where they had the
greatest perrnanency aud to put them in
the hands of bankers and brokers and large
investors in the great financial centres,
where they were liable to be affected by the
frequent fluctuations in the money market.
This Mr.. Ducan regarded as an evil
which should be avoided, tending, as it did,
to lessen the popularity of the bonds and
to that extent depreciSte the credit OF the
Government in the markets OF the world.
Both gentlemen coincijed in this view
and also in the opinion that the better pole
icy would be not TO endeaVor 10 Iofce Tue
market at the present time, but wait until
the money market is in more favorable
condition for re-funding the debt at lower
interest; TO let the matter be done under the
immediate control of the Treasury Depart,
ment, without the aid Of intermediate par
ties, and that the bonds should be Of q uni
form character as to the rate Of interest, as
TO the period for which they are to run,
which should be long period, and as to
the place where they are to be made paya'
bic, which should be at the Treasury Of the
United States. Mr. Boutwell, was present
at the interview.
The Cost Of Collecting.
The estimate of the Commissioner er of In
ternal Revenue for the expenses Of that Of
fee for the next fiscal year has been sent to
the Committee on Appropriations. The
entire estimate amounts to S4,7GO coo, but
of that amount nearly two and half mil
lions is to pay gaugers and storekeepers
under the act of June 6, 1872.
Combinations.
The Senate in executive session to-day
confirmed The following nominations: Irwin
Mcdowell, Major General in the army, vice
Meade, deceased; A. W, Hawkins, Collec-