The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1873-04-15
THE USURY LAWS.
The Grand Jury in a Guam
Diary.
Prominent Bankers Called Upon to Testify
Daniel Drew One of the Witnesses What is
!, Thought Of the Matter on Wall Street

The lock up of money has at last been made the
subject Of an official inquiry by the Grand jury.
Yesterday they were engaged upon ordinary busi
ness until haif-past eleven O'Clock when they were
called to the court room to answer to their names,
and to hand in the indictments that had Ven
found by them. on their return several OF me
leading fnanciers OF the city were examined. me
following were the members OF the jury: -Wlllian
Habershaw, foreman; William Kemp, Isaac II.
Reed, Jacob Russell, Robert Campbell Lucius ;.
Cemstock, Leander Buck, Alfred Y. Learnan,
Charles B. Cornell, Joseph Wehrle, John Babcock,
Theodore Perry, Samuel Wetmore, Richard Heathc,
Evert Duyckinck, Tunis H. Patterson, James ray
for, George W. Gafitt, Thomas woodward, MOTHS
X. Jesup Alfred a. Sparks William Adams, Jr,
and William d. Wellington
The examination was secret and the oulcers
were told not TO mention even the names OF the
witnesses to the reporters. The reporter of an
afternoon paper, who asked for them, obtained
LIST or FICTITIOUS NAMES,
not one OF which was correct. The following
the names OF the witnesses who had been sum
moned Henry q. Cambos, James Hartshorne,
James whitley, Alfred Grymes, Reuben Maney,
william A. vermilye, James 5. Paulding, Daniel
Drew Henry Graves representative OF Drexel,
Morgan & Co., and member OF the firm of Robin
son, Chase a. Co. Mr.. Daniel Drew asked 10 be ex-
cused. saying that ne did not feel very well The
foreman courteously acceded 10 this request and
Mr.. Drew was excused. or the remaining wit
nesses but five we're examined, Mr.. Pauld-
ing, Mr.. Camblos Mr.. Grymes Mr.. vermilye Mr..
Graves and MIR. Hartshorne. The examination was
not very formal one. First the foreman would
ask a question, then one OF the Jurymen would
want to know something, and so on until the wit
ness and the jury seemed 10 be engaged In cosey
chat. The examinations OF the different witnesses
were similar in this respect The jury wanted TO
know something and the witnesses all said they
knew nothing. The jury wanted &c know who
were the consprators who had brought about the
extraordinary
srRNGENcY OF THE MONEY MARKET,
and the witnesses, one after the otner, replied,
'.Can't tell; don't Know Then the jury wanted
the witness to state who did know, and the an
swer was again, "Can't tell don't know None
OF the witnesses though they were well known
brokers and were supposed TO have considerable
information in regard to money matters, seemed
most eXtraoT binary loss OF memory.
Mr. James 5. paulding was the lrst witness
Foreman-Be kind enough to state to the jury all
that you know OF the condition OF the money market
the lookup OF money and who Is responsible for IT,
Mr.. Paulding eliminating and locking out OF the
windowl-Well don't know much about it.
Foreman (after pause)-Be kind enough to tell
us all you know.
Mr.. Paulding (stin looking out OF the window
Well, all know is from rumor
solemn pause. The foreman looks at Mr..
Paulding, Mr.. Pauding looks out of the window,
JURYMES LOOK AT ONE ANOTHER
Foreman--Can you give us the name OF any per-
son who has received more than seven per cent
per annum for the use OF money!
Solemn pause, which lasts three minutes and
fOrty-siX seconds and three-quarters
Mr.. Pauldng (gravely)-Ihav heard that num-
Der OF money-lenders have done SO; Pm sure !
don't knew whether it's true
Mr.. PauldiAg lighted a cigar and pulled it eis-
urey. The foreman looked at him in anazement
Foreman-iou don't know any such parties,
Mr.. Pauldlng-only from rumor, SIR; that's all.
Pause. The foreman counts the buttons on Mr..
Paulding's coat
Foreman-You cannot tell US the names OF any
parties, sir
Mr. Pauiding-No sir, 1 can't do 1t.
Foreman atter consulting the Iuryl-Can you
tell US the names OF party who could tell US the
names OF these parties
Mr.. Paulding with an expression OF regret
most touching to beholdl-No, SIR.
Foreman--Mr Paulding, Pm sorry TO observe
that there is disposition
Mr. Pauldlng carefully measuring me ceiing,.
unless You want me 10 repeat all kinds OF Wall
street rumors.
Foreman CONFERENCE.-THE thank you.
Eft cetera, ct cetera The examination proceeds
for hall an hour and the nry IS Just as wise as II
man. Mr. Pauldng bows and another witness is
called.
foreman:-.I suppose you are through with me,
Mr.. Foreman ~
swell, yes,n the foreman replies, you don't
seem to know anything
MIR. PauldIng answers eyes, and darts out
glad to return to his business.
Mr.. Vermilye was asked u he had borrowed
money at usurious rates.
Yes" was his reply.
Foreman-WhyS
Mr.. Nermilye-Because had to have the money
Mt the time.
That's all the jury got out Of Mr. vermilye.
Mr.. Graves was equally communicative. HE did
not know anyone instrumental III bringing about
THIS LOOKUP or MONEY,
and did not know anybody who was en-
gagged In it, That was answer number one.
Answer number two was still more comprehensive.
"He did not know OF any lookup Of money, and
there certainly none as lar a. he mad any
knowledge OF it,
The Grand Jury adjourned at one O'Clock. They
will resume the investigation thls morning. A
HERALD reporter conversed with number OF prom
inent brokers Yesterday IN relation to the subject.
When asked what they ,hought OF the investigation
they gave II as their opinion that it would not
amount to much. 'Money Is Just a. much OF "A com
modify as ANYTHING else, one OF them said, "and
any one who knows Wall street easily tell that
they have forty different ways here 20 get round
the usury laws
Opinions of Prominent Bankers and
Brokers upon the Contemplated Repeal
There was no special excitement in Wall street
yesterday over the rumored indictments OF Wall
street bankers and brokers, for no believed
that any would be indicted. II was taKen in the
light OF a street exploded sensation and was paid
little attention to- But. on the other hand, there
q great deal Of talk about the possibility oil
Grand Jury bringing indictments against bankers
and brokers for engaging in what they consider
perfectly legitimate business, and the Indignation
ut the authorities and the laws Tor countenancing
such a thing was very great. Instead OF taking
things up in this way the financial men, az rule
are inclined TO think that the greatest latitude
should be allowed 10 speculation and that the law
should help on healthy activity instead Of smotn
ering it, as this contemplated movement wonld
seem TO pc doing.
The fear which was felt at the movement in the
Courts could best have been judged or about hall
past two yesterday, when the money market was
certainly az excited and crowded as II has been
any time during the past erentul month, and when
above the legal interest was freely bid for IL IN
dehance oil the action OF law and Grand Jury.
For the purpose Of sounding the opinions of
1nancial men on the subject vi the Usury laws