The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1873-04-16
THE GRAND JURY AND usuRy

Buckley ON tho stand-The Frank Com
fcssiOn OF Member OF the Ora nd Jury
He Thinks There Are Not Soventy-Rvs
Business Mem I'm tho City Who Do Not
Violate tho Usury Law.
The Grand Jury room was again crowded with
bankers and brokers yesterday morning. The ex-
animation was begun at eleven O'Clock. put only
three witnesses were called. The following brokers
were waiting to be examined :-Rchard Sckell, IL.
W. Buckley tom Scotts SON in-law). E. N. Bieder-
man, George Wood, A. A. Drake. James whiteley.
NJ r. Dodge, Reuben Manley. J. Robinson. II. O.
Hilmers, G. II. Smithers W. L. Kennedy, II. Wa
llams, Russell Sage.
Mr.. Richard Schell was 1rst examined. Although
he was supposed to know everything about tho
men who had loaned money at u5urOus rates no
was not asked single question IN relation to the
subject. The questions that were put to him AN
referred to the alleged conspiracy to lock up
money 900 Sr.Ns A. eEs x .- s.',sY
Q. DO you knew anything about the lookup Of
money! A. No. sir.
Q. Can you give US the names OF any gcntlemen
who have been instrumental In bringing about the
stringency Of the money market A. No. sir.
And so on,
TILL THE FOREMAN GOT TIRED
and called Mr.. kusse Sage Mr. ScheIl came out
smiling and was congratulated by all the brokers
on being able to return to his office.
The examination OF Mr.. Sage was lengthy. The
following Is his testimony
Q. Are you acquainted with the manner Of bOr-
rowing and lending money In Wall street, A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do You know OF any combinations OF men to
put up the rates oil money! A. l do not, sir.
Q. Can you give US any name that will lead to
the discovery OF any such combination, II any suca
existedf A. l cannot; but, in common with mann
combination
been formed to put up the price OF gold and to
make make money dear; have no personal knowledge
@. What is your opinion as to the cause Of the
present stringency OF the money marketS A. There
1851 900 or its Indebtedness in the past four
about 800. 100000 in legal tenders by the with
drawal Of three per cent certificates,
AMOUNTING TO TIFrY-FIvE MILLIONS
and about lorty-hve millions legal tenders had
been withdrawn to form basis OF tine new bank
Ing which had been organized during the past year;
credits that had been paid OIL, which added TO the
demand Tor money; fourth, there were several
money 70 carry them; NTH, the LIST OF April was .
general settlement day throughout New England.
New York, Pennsylvania and several OF the West
ern states, which required many millions OF dol
was the season oil the year when money is required
10 commence the business OF the season; 1t usually
took ten or fifteen days to get relief from these
have been this year but FOR the agitation OF the
question which you are investigating.
q. Have you enumerated all the causes Of the
present stringency OF the money markets A. Well.
bank deposits In the Importers and Traders Bank,
with which am connected; this decrease I'M tho
AMOUNTED TO TWO MILLION DOLLARS,
and about 100000 In individual deposits; under.
stand that another o. the leading banks OF the city
had also lost s200O000 within thirty days, aud that
all the banks had lost moro or l0SS
q. Mr.. Sage. what 10 your opinion In regard to
marketS A. 1 believe that they have tended "a
make money much dearer than 1t otherwise would
have been, and that. 4 the laws were modified 50
usury restrictions. the rates OF money would rule
much lower than under the existing laws; but for
money would not be above gold interest.
Y What are your relations with the Importers
q. State whether that bank was ever engaged in
any combination to lock up money! A. IT never
| Y. what amounts OF loans have your A. Our
loans average from $7500,o00 to S. SOC. 900 to
chants and business men, and about 81, 900 de-
.. Has your bank received higher rates Of inter-
SEVEN Pen CENT DIRECTLY OR INDIREcrLYr
A.. Never, to my knowledge and belief
| Mr. N. W. Buckley was next called. One OF the
brokers. who had been waiting long while, ex-
pressed great Indignation that any preferences
should have been given TO Mr.. Buckley "because he
broker excla%ea tse nnnsyism IN tsis countrv
heats Europe all to pieces" And he smote the
The following Is Mr.. BickIey,s testimony
q. What Is the custom OF borrowing money! A.
The custom IL to give security and receive your
mission may he charged extra.
O. Have your nrm (Randoph 4 Co.. been bor-
rowers from bankss A. Yes. sir.
q. Have you paid banks usurious ratesi A. No,
q. Have you paid more than seven per cent tS
anybody else. A. Yes, SIR.
4 To whom A. To houses in the street: I
couldn't name any special case and date; have No
o Can YOU give NJ the names or any OF
these partiesi A. The borrowed money! get it
HrA vERY FAIR MARKET PRICE,
names OF persons who had In measure favored
as; y you 90 not press the question would beg 70
.. What IL your opinion in regard to the repeal OF
the rsury law A. IL would be highly beneficial;
the usury law Is productive OF evil rather than Of
v. What u the cause OF the stringency OF the
money marketf A. with smilel-Figured down
20 small point and without any rhetoric because
there are more borrowers than lenders. (LaughterI
This was all. and At one O'Clock the brokers, who
mad al been waiting two hours were told that the
ing. Mr.. A. A. Drake was very indignant at this,
and said u Was . disgrace that the Grand Jury
ana q, osy rom eleven an one and that haiti i WOULD
take them six montas AZ the lowest computation
10 DO this work The hours OF the Grand Jury
wsRg TOO AkisrocRArfc IN MS OPINION
n !. evident that all the brokers who are to 10
examined wiz say they do not know the names OF
any parties who have loaned money at usurious
rates. .ff man were 70 DO tht-,"a weli-known
broker sald 20 the reporter, ~ would ruin his
pc ors s ns Of 'as
lurymen told me o. the brokers who were exam
,sse yesss'pssa ~ s.s soarse a ne KNEW .n
city whg did not violate the usury Law almost
every day
HORSE NOTES.