The New York herald., 1873-12-04

J Trinity College, Galbraith Shaw and Haughton and
Mr.. Butt. who drew up the following declaration OF
! the objects OF the association. which was unani-
| mously slgned:-
HOME RULE PLATFORM.
To obtain for our country the right and privilege
OF managing our own affairs, by Parliament
assembled in Ireland, composed Of Her Majesty the
| Sovereign and her successors and the LORDS ana
! Commons OF Ireland. To secure for tnat Para-
ment under q federal arrangement the right OF
legslating for ana regulating all matters relating
to the internal affairs Ireland, and contro over
Irish resources and revenue, subject to the ooga-
4 tion OF contributing our just proportion OF the
| Imperial expenditure. To leave to an Imperial
Parliament the power OF dealing with all questions
| affecting the Imperial Crown and government,
legislation regarding the colonies and other de-
Tendencies OF the Crown, the relations OF the
United Empire with foreign States and all matters
| appertaining to the defence and the stability OF
the Empire at large. To attain such an ADJUST
ment OF the relations between the two countries
without any interference with the prerogatives of
I the Crown or any disturbances OF the principles OF
| the constitution.
HUNGARY AND IRELAND.
CoRREsPoNDENr-Are the home rulers recog-
nized party In Ire landt
Mr.. SULLIv LIvAN-Certanly. think can Illustrate
my meaning by comparison with the state Of
At that time there were three partles-the sep
aratists, led by Kossuth; the constitutional
tonalists, whose leader was Deak, the
imperial, or Austrian party. Here we have very
nearly the same state of affairs. The Fenian party
corresponds to the separatists the home rulers to
the constitutional natonalists, and the castle, or
English party, to the imperial Austrian
CoRREsPoNDENT-How do you compare the home
rule movement to 0'Connels agitations
Mr.. SULLIvAN-oConnell's agitation was for
tot repeal or the union. wishing return to the
Irish constitution exactly as it was in 1882, in point
OF fact TO esta blish perfect duasm under one
crown, such as now exists in Sweden and Norway.
The home rulers give up as much OF OConnes
programme as relates to peace and war, the man
agement OF the army ana navy and our arrange
ments with foreign nations to the imperial gov
ernment. On the other hand they claim a respon-
sible local Irish executive or ministry well as
Parliament They wish, in fact, that Ireland should
bear the same relation to Great Britain as the
! State OF New York does to the United States.
| CORRESPONDENT Do you imagine that home rule
! IL granted would absorb Fenlanism7
| Mr.. SULLWAN-I cannot speak OF my own knowl-
edge, but firmly believe that many, even OF the
more advanced sympathzers with Fenlanism
would be content with home rule. During the IL
years from 1859 TO 1870 there was constitutional
agitation in the country, and Fenianism, which
may be called the politics OF despair, was in far
greater force than was actually believed. In
secret society is, oil course, unable to say how
many members are enrolled and, though / think
the number was comparatively small, yet the
spread OF the Fenian spirit among the masses OF
people was immense.
CoRREspoNDENr-Do you think that the passing
OF the Church Disestablishment act has been in
your favor or against your
Mr.. SULLIvAN-Certany in our favor; for now,
for the first time in history the Protestant
comes an Irshman. see three dangers ahead
The Fenian discomfort, the fears OF the orangemen
that we shall become the tools OF the Jesuts. the
Tears of Cardinal Cullen and the priests that we
shall become the tools OF the orangemen.
CoRREsPoNDENT-Are there many Protestants
with your
Mr.. SULLrvAS-yery many leading Protestant gen.
tlemen Qaughing). The wings say the Protestants
are joining US to spite Mr. Gladstone. The Catholic
clergy held back fearing the party might be made
! tools against Mr.. Gladstone. They did not believe
much in the sincerity OF the Protestants and
thought 1t was iactious attempt to embarrass the
Prime Minister. "We viii work with you later on"
they say, .'out do join the movement yet ior
fear of frightening the Protestants."
CoRREsPosDEST-In the elections which have
taken place since the nome rule movement was
started have the Catholic clergy at all interered
would be called o strong part in Catholic affairs,
led the great revolt against clerical selection
OF candidates which the celebrated Longford
election OF 1869 called forth. There the Cath
olic clergy selected Lord Grevie's son, the
people selected John Martin, then absent
In America, and called on me to represent
him on the husttngs. 1t was painful
fight between old friends, the people versus the
priests; the latter claiming the privilege OF select
ing Parliamentary candidates. the former voting
against IT, The priests, by fearfully ''unduen in
nuence. beat US at the polls, but the people lodged
petition and upset their reverences candidate.
CoRREsPoSDHST-Mr. Martin never sat Tor Long
ford, believe 2
Mr.. SULLIvAS-No; but on a vacancy occurring
shortly after in Meath, put up John Martin, who
Is Presbyterian, and carried him triumphanty
against the Hon. Mr.. Plunkett, who Is the son OF
Lord FIngal, great Catholic peer, and who was
supported by the Catholic bishops and clergy. |
am bound to say, however, that the Meath Bishop
and priests fought us fairly, temperately and good
humorediy. These elections-Longord and Meath
had great deal to do with the marvellous change
of Protestant and conservative opinion In me
home rule direction Immediately aferwai DIS.
Protestants saw with amazement that not only
would Catholics not blindy follow priests in poll
tics but would literally fight them, and that, too,
in favor OF Protestant candidates.
CoRREsPoNDEaT-You think, then, that the infu-
ence OF the priests In political matters mas de-
creased ? TO what do you attribute that result
Mr.. SULLIvAN-To the spread OF education.
There is no priestly lead, there was in
oConnell's time. The penal laws left the peasant
no other leader; he looked to the priests manage
his temporal as well his spiritual AFFAIRS The
national schools have now taught the people to
read and write; the penny press has stepped into
the field thus made Tor it; the newspapers read
everywhere and the Inhabitants of every cabin are
as well posted his reverence Therefore the
Roman Catholic priest as leader quits the scene
CoRREsPoNDENT-And do you think the influence
OF the home rulers will ever be as great as
O'Connell'ss
Mr.. SULLfvAS-Greater. because those to whom
II Ia addrasael are now mnre intnllinent and rea-