The New York herald., 1872-12-05

not be anything like 80 much ri0ting as at most
sibe chance OF disturbance would be that OF the
monarchsts falling out among themselves. We
repanIcans are dsr too sure 0l victory by peaceful
disturbance. II they would have the elections
even as late as next June there would be no riot
itself into vicious circle, from which 1t is not easy
to see how IL Is TO escape. II Will not dissolve
itself and there is no one who has, legally, power
EDUCATION IN FRANCE.
C0RREsP0NDENT-What do you think about me
educational question, NJ. Gambetta; you are oil f0r
lay as opposed to religious instruction. imagine
"fes, we must have secular education. We must
have lay schools; 1t is quite passionate desire
and nothing short OF the exclusion OF all strictly
religious teaching from the schools subventloned
6y the State win satisfy the present OF Of
morality should be taught IN schools paid py gov
ernment; religion should be taught else where.
do NOT object TO priests teaching in state scnoos
so long as they do not take advantage OF their
position to propagate their religious (anu very
strongly object to is the present system of subven-
tioning religious schools mean those kept by
priests or nuns to the prejudice Of lay schools.
What should wish for ID complete liberty in the
matter, SO long as the State refused to give pecu-
MARY aid to any schools In which there was reli-
DO not mean to be hostile to religion but as unfor-
tunatey we cannot be said to have any national
" o ons ses e 81
its rivals. Mind, am not hostile TO religion, but
repeat that IN country like France IT is impossi.
against Others"
THE PROGRESS OF uLTRAMoNTANIsM
CORREsPONDENT-Y0u are no doubt q little an
noyed at the spread OF ultramOntanst principles in
france as evnced by the pilgrimages to Lourdes
GAMBETTA--It is quite astonishing the progress
ultramOntanlsm has made in France during the
last twenty years or 80. have collected some Gu
rious figures showing the increase in numbers,
wealth and power OF the ultramontanists in France
during the last lew years Thirty years % ago such
been simply impossible. You could not have got
people to go except few hundreds Of benighted
peasants in Brittany. Now people come from all
parts Of France.
THE POLICY TOWARDS JEsUiTIsM
Wiling to sound Gambetta rs to what would be
his conduct with regard to the Jesuits In case he
should come into power In France. asked him
what he thought OF Bismarck's onslaught on the
Roman Catholics IN Germany.
THAT Prince Bismarck has chosen his time ex-
tremely wen, wonderfully WELL for his attack on
Italy h WI nm for se is
her is o matter OF life ana death. Austria, once
the stronghold Of the Jesuts, is not only now in
open revolt against their authority, but could at
present. even she would which is doubtful, do lit
tie to thwart Bismarck France the eldest daughter
ofthe Church, is down. par terre and would not pro-
marck has the Protestant feeling OF the great ma
Jority OF the North German Germans With with him,
very intelligent section. The old Catholics are no
doubt secretly glad to sec the overweening preten.
Prussian Chancellor. Bismarck is a great states
man-aas, he has made us feel 1t only too WE'LL
and he has shown all his usual skill in his attack on
the Jesnts. You may perhaps be surprised to hear
me speak in terms OF admiration OF a man who has
been such cruel enemy to France; but l know
that during the war he was not our most exacting
foe, and often restrained the outrageous preten-
sions OF the military party"
CORREsPOKDENT-Still, you must admit. NJ Gam
BETA, that the expulsion OF the Jesuits from Ger
many is very arbitrary act and contrary to the
principles OF 1ree government.
EAlI nvrrvyA w nj Ynnu hn hnf hn h0a
think.
beta, point-blanK, whether he would take leaf
from the great ChancellOrs book and oust the
Jesuits from France, were he in power; but though
Inferred that he would not be inclined to 80
thorough-gong step IN France, he would EVIL
IDENTITY not bring himself to blame the conduct of
the German government towards Rome.
CHURCH AND STATE
The religious question being one Of the most i'm.
portant az the present moment Of any IN Europe,
continued the conversation by asking Gambetta II
he was for the total separation OF Church and State
in France.
quite Impossible for any government to live on de-
cent terms with the Roman Catholic Church now
that the pretensions OF the priests are exorbi-
tant. or course, we can suDvene in one religion
aud not all. The whole tendencies OF Roman
Catholicism are so hostile, so utterly irrecon.
ciliable with those OF modern progress, that
the state must sever all connection with
the Church. ! see that even in England
Church Were ! an Engshman, however much
OF radical might be in politics, should not ad-
vocate the dsestablishment OF the national Church,
which, however lmperiectly, IN that country repre-
sents the views and aspirations OF the nation. l
mean that the Church OF England ls, in the main at
all events, in accord with the State; whereas the
very exact contrary is the case in France. No; in
England should be no advocate OF the disestab-
shment OF the Church, not even in theory, far less
in practice.
CoRREsPoNDENT-You astonish me somewhat by
this expression OF opinion because even in so con-
servative a country as England there are many ad-
Church
your ideas sound very conservative.
..,,u THE RADICAL % ID DICTATOR TOR CONSERVATIVE.
hearty smile, II am conservative. People will
persist in imagining that am fond OF destruction
is the case. ! am not such q revolutionst as
people would make Inc out to be.n
THEIRS FINANCIAL AND COMMERCIAL BLUNDER.
CoRREsPoNDENT-Wna nat Is your opinion as to the
commercial policy pursued by NJ Ihierss
GAMBErTA-That it is utterly wrong and msta-
ken, but that, at the same time-for the present,
at all events-we must put up with 1t as best we
may, because, as have said before, We must take
NJ. Theirs as we find him and put up with his faults
as well as his many excellent qualities. He is too
old to change. and we should only make matters
worse by opposing him. HIS opinions are like
stick. myself and most of the members, If not
oil the members, OF the republican party, am free
encouraging commerce by absolute freedom. France
is, believe very generally disposed to adopt free
aaa s aa 81 the he
convert not few VINO still hang back. There is
much loss and suffering already from the higher
rates on foreign vessels and so on The fact that
do not take SO much apparent interest as per-
maps ought to do in these matters because | Ieel
that the backward policy OF NJ. Theirs III this mat
ter cannot last long. Directly We have new AS
sembly all trade taxes on raw materials,
&C., will be swept away in five min
utes. Therefore l advocated support OF M.
Thiers last session In what | and may
party regarded as a totally erroneous commercial
policy, dating from last century, because we knew
that If We beat NJ. Theirs he would probably If not
certainly, have resigned, which would have been a
much worse calamity than the temporary imposi-
ton OF duties which cannot possibly be maintained
under a new Assembly. For these reasons, and be-
cause am convinced that the immense majority OF
French citizens In favor OF free trade, do not
take any great interest In the new commercial
treaty which is being negotiated with Great Brit
ain. am glad to see, however, that the English
Ministry has made provisions for changes in the
treaty by mutual consent That shows forethought
on their part
TIE GENERAL EUROPEAN SITUATION.
CoRREsPoNDENr--What do you think oil The gen.
siIuatiar n Ei,raI,e