The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1872-05-25

| ha H.
any trace upon the American side is the withdrawal
Should be responste for the recognition
\ OF the South as belligerent Power In company
/ with that equally wild imagination which believe
never extended beyond the minds OF two or three
speakers i IN Congress, OF making us liable for all
! ton which may be proved or supposed
to have arisen from our attitude during the
have been admitted by any arbitration and
we therefore derived no advantage from their with
Of the British Commissioner, who negotiated the
treaty replied to Earl Derbys remarks by denying
tnat the course taken by the English commissioners
az washington had been one OF uniform concession
70 their American colleagues. 1t was easy to say
that the lattor had given up no claim which wsuId
have been entertained by any arbitration; but it
was far more satisfactory to hear an express sur
render OF those which had been referred to by tho
| noble Earl Earl Derby.
| Earl Granville, continuing his despatch to
| Schcnck. says:-
| observed that you were present In the House OF
i;ords on mat occasion, and you informed me on
the 10th OF December that you were present during
the speeches OF Lord Russell and myself and that
you communicated the next day the full newspaper
report OF the debate to your government Sir $:
in ns use of repeated
remarks on the limitation Of the terms OF reference
and as his speech Is printed in the papers on For
must also have been reported to your governments
but neither on the occasion Of my speech nor Of his
nor when the Publications of the treaty were ex-
changed on the nth or June, did you call my atten
ton to the fact that different Interpretation was
placed on the treaty and protocol by Her Maiesty's
government and the government Of the United
States, nor so far as Her MaJestys government are
aware was their Interpretation thus publicly ex
pressed challenged either by the statesmen or the
public press OF the United States
The remarks referred to as made by Sir STAFFORD
Northcote on the treaty on the 4th August last
are as follows:-
The claims arising out Of the acts Of the Alabama
mond had remarked that the previous con-
felt points ws snS n
could never have admitted. They were left so
vague, indeed, that 1t would have been possible
under those claims to have raised number OF
questions which this country was not willing to
submit to arbitration. They might have raised
premature recognition OF beigerency and the con-
sequental damages arising from the prolongatIon OF
which this country could not have admitted. Instead
OF this being the case, however, the treaty as ac-
taa d the a. issue
losses growing out of the acts Of particular YES
sells and so shutting out a large class Of claims
upon which the Americans had heretofore insisted
He contended, therefore, that the Joint High Com
mission had upon this point worked substantial ad
vantage rather than injury to this country.
These speeches seem to justify the recent remarks
of Sir Edward Thornton and especially Of Sir Stat
ford Northcote. 1t Will be remembered that Sir
Edward Thornton, the British Minister, In the
speech already referred to in this despatch at the
st. Georges dinner In New York, where he spoke
for both the American and British Commissioners,
took the ground that the presentation OF the
American claim for consequential damages
A SURPRISE TO THE ENGLISH COMMISSIONERS AND
THE ENGLISH PEOPLE.
Sir Stafford Northc0te In his Exeter Hall speech
last week is reported to have said -
The understanding of the British Commission
ers was that promise had been given that the
claims for Indirect damages should not be pre-
sented, but II was necessary that the American
Senate should not be placed In position requiring
q confession that wrong had been DONE
This speech was made the subject Of General But
lers resolution which, far, he has failed to have
passed by the House. If 1t passes there will be
great trouble at the State Department. Mr.. Fish
cannot give straightforward, uneqhvocal answer,
and it asserted by the friends OF the Secretary
that General Butler, friend Of the administra-
ton, would not have introduced the resolution If
his
HOSTILITY TO THE TREATY
and his wish for its failure had not overborne party
considerations. II has been well known In certain
official quarters ever since the dispute began, that
the British Commissioners have time and again sug-
gested in private way that they are In possession
of documentary and contemporaneous evidence
which, though not OF an Official character, is amply
sufficient to establish circumstantally the position
of the English government that the in
direct claims should not have been introduced
into .'case." The British Cabinet has sudiously
RETAINED from officially or
OPENLY USING THIS EVIDENCE
up to this time, because to reveal 1t would fasten
the imputaton of absolute bad faith upon the
United States officials and make 1t impossible to
hold any proceedings with them under the treaty.
The knowledge that this evidence existed,
alleged to exist, has been source Of unremttent
anxiety and embarrassment to Mr.. Fish through
the whole course OF the negotiations.
FISH DECEIVE THE CoUNTRyS
This leaves only the hypothesis of lying for the
Commissioners side or the other, and reveals
to us the danger that Mr.. Fish first deceived the
British commissioners, then the Senate to secure
the ratification Of the treaty, and finally the Senate
and the country in order to secure for himself re-
treat from the endless laundering which
characterizes his official conduct. And it
was this subject which engaged the at
tention of the Senate to-day In executive session
Both Thurman and Sherman the Ohio Senator's,
took very
STRONG GROUNDS AGAINST THE WHOLE TRANsAc-
Thurman, while not indicating that he would vote
against the ratification of the supplementary ar.
ticle, took an unexpected view of the situation,
going into the merits Of the case as 1t has already
been explained in this despatch and deprecating
the entire situation. He denounced Mr.. Fish's d.
plomacy series OF blunders from the beginning,
and if he indicated disposition to agree 70 rati-
dcation as it is aveired he did it is understood
that he did only the ground that these blum.
ders have been so great and have gone so far as
NOW TO DE BEYOND REMEDY.
He thought that, under all the circumstances it
would have been better If the Senate had ratified
the Johnson Clarendon Treaty, Objectionable 1t
was as the country would thereby have escaped
the complicated position in which it now finds
Itself It would have been wise act, he said, If
we could have foreseen the trouble that has fol-
lowed and the sycophancy which has recently been
displayed, to have accepted tnat convention,
instead OF progressing
IN THE DIRECTION OF HUMILIATION,
as we have been doing since lts rejection. He was
particularly severe in his arragnment OF the adj
ministration. quoting from the Presidents Message
Eisi,.s Observation-Disclosures show. the adua