The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1872-03-23
THE UBLE-BARRELLED ARMS INQUIRY.
Senator Schurs Before the Senate Committee
What He Knows Of the French spy-The
Third Parties Behind the Screens
How Little Germany Cares

Third Parties Behind the Screens
How Little Germany Cares.
frrs er. WASHINGTON, March %, 1871
Yhe Senate Arms Investigating Committee at
their meeting this morning examined
SENATOR scHURz
He said he hrst became acquainted with the
Marquis de Chambrun In the spring OF 1885, and
knew ne was an attorney for the prosecution OF
claims OF French citizens IN the Courts OF the
United states; he aid not think Chamsrun was
connected with the secret service In reply to the
question as to whether the witness had frequent In
terviews with the Marquis. MIR. Schurz commenced
his reply BY stating In what manner he obtained
knowledge about this arms business; he had said
IN his speech In the senate that when such feeling
arose In this country In consequences or
the sale Of arms to the French govern
ment he was startled to think that our
government should carry on sucn proceedings
merely for the purpose Of getting MD OF ordnance
stores; but he only knew the fact that such arms
were seld, cargo after cargo. 10 France; the first
time his suspicious were strengthened was after the
commencement OF the present session Of Congress.
when the organization OF the Retrenchment Com
mttee was talked about, for the correction OF
abuses; he understood that Senator COnkling had
said to Governor Jewell, OF Connecticut It would
head OF that committee, Tor the reason that he
would, perhaps avail himself OF his opportunity TO
investigate tne SAFE Oh arms 10 france ne naa not
circumstances oil the case, except that sucn arms
had been sold; about week or fortnight before
the Christmas vacation copy OF
W REMINGToN's LETTER TO Mr. LEcEsNE
was shown 70 MIN py member Of the legislative
the preamble OF Mr.. Sumuers resolution.
In answer to Senator Aamlln's question, he said
he did not know OF his own knowledge VINO got
that letter; he supposed the committee might Call
on the gentleman himself to say, and thought the
gentleman would have no objection to tell; ne re-
Qarded his conversation with him as confidential;
he would state, however, the gentleman 10 whom
e ee en Tos es nd Mr. ntro
duced his resolution that he learned the Marquis de
ChamDrun had knowledge Of the subject embraced
In the resolution, and asked the Marquis wnat he
knew OF the matter;
THE MARQUIS HAD CALLED AT HIS HOUSE,
he mad called IN social way, the families OF nIm-
self and the MARQUIS being animate; the Marquis
either at thar or subsequent interview, and IN
formed Witness that he had mad conversation with
the Secretary oil War; he had heard the letter read
from the Secretary OF War 70 the secretary state
which also had appeared In the debate, with refer.
ence TO the manufacture OF cartridges and the say
ing OF Remington to Lecesne that ne had to use
slrong influence to have them manufactured; the
THE LETTER WAS NO SECRET
1t having been read TO MIN by The secretary OF War
quent interview, In answer to the question whether
IT was u confidential dooumenG the Marquis replied
that IL WAS not.
Senator sCaURz having been asked how many in
tervlews helhad VITA NJ. de ChamDrun. responded he
had been acquainted with him for the last SIX years.
The wife or the Marquis visited his house, and
way. de had often talked to him on the
Know now COPY or the letter Of the secretary airy
OF VAR to the secretary OF state was furnished Tor
ness s was then asked whether he knew now COPY
or ME- Kemington's letter to Lecesne was procured
and replied tnat II was communicated 70 ChamDrun
Inv M ar Ha al q fhA lima
that the paper was produced In evidence at the
trial In Paris that the witness had no other IN
formation procured at that source. The other In
formation the witness procured from otner sources,
and he stated that ne
He had mad no reason for calling on either the
Secretary OF War Or the Secretary OF the Treasury
to inquire as to apparent discrepancies IN The
In response to q question whether he had any
knowledge OF any onicer connected with the
government having received any money, directly
or Indirectly. rrom tine sale Of arms, witness
repliel that good deal OF Information came TO him
Information could be got before this committee in
evidence. He thought he mad expressed to the
or course lie
COULD NOT TESTIFY HIMSELF ON THESE POINTS,
because ne had no knowledge OF his own.
Senator CARPENTER Inquired-From what persons
did you receive communications on the subJectY
Answer do not think 1 can answer that ques.
ton, because certain persons have communicated to
me In confidence what such AMI such persons knew
about the case. intend TO suggest that The per-
senator CARPENrER-I repeat, from what per-
sons ala you receive confidential communications
upon the subect2
Answer-I do not think ought to say.
Senator CARPENTER think we ought to know.
es a ne so Jay se n G
investigation entirely. Tor 1t would make those
afraid who now give Information; but the end
would be answered by giving to the committee the
names OF tile witnesses.
Senator HARLAN-It is your purpose to have The
witnesses suOp1naed and examiner
AnsWer-It Ia
Senator HARLAN-Are they citizens OF the United
StatesP
Answer-Every one: 1 received no information
from abroad except what have already detailed.
Senator CARPENTER said he would waive his
question until Senator Schurz had put In all his
testimony.
senator SEIZURE did not know but what that
would have tile same effect, as perhaps those per-
sons might not want to have their names known.
Senator CARPENTER said one part OF the resolu-
ton under which the committee were acting re-
qured them to ask whether any member OF the Sen.
ate any other American CITIZEN Is. or mas been IN
communication or collusl0n with the French gov
eminent or other foreign Power, or with any agent
or officer thereof, In reference TO said natter
The Witness replied he had
HAD NO SUCH COMMUNICATIONS;
his communications were with American citizens,
VINO had no connection whatever with foreign gov.
ernments
senator STEvENsoN-I understand you to say that
the gentlemen from whom you received the inior.
nation SAID the letter from the Secretary OF War to
the Secretary of state was read In the presence OF
others.
Answer-I did.
Senator CARrENTER-wno were there when the
letter was read?
WIrNEss-l stated thai Chambrun said so to me:
do not remember OF his having mentioned the
names OF the persons; the first time Chambrun re-
peated the contents or the letter from memory and
inc second time ne said the letter was not
sidered by the Secretary OF War confidential
documen at oil.
Senator HANLIN-Have you at any time heard
from HIM that copy OF the letter was given to him
for the Information OF the French Legation only,
and expressly for the purpose OF being shown 10 the
President and nobody else, and did you not hear
IRON nm that copy OF the letter was furnished Tor
that purpose sOley2
Answer--I never heard him say anything OF the
kind, but ne said the secretary OF War did not con.
slder 1t q confidential communication.
Senator CARPENTER-DO you know how COPY
OF the letter from Remington 10 Lecesne was pro-
cured2 UIaf..t9n VI. ters-.ta s.r4
Answer--I think the first impression had Of 1t
was that Senator Sumner obtained knowledge OF IL
from somebody else than Chambrun.
Senator CARPENTER--DO yOu Know from whom