New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1871-06-03
FOREIGN CORRESPONDENCE.
ENGLAND.
SHALL THERE BE A STATE CHURCH 7
IPROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENCE


degree of success they obtained last night. 1t was
their first Parliamentary effort. Mr.. Mail said he
hoped for minority of possibly 81 votes. BE got 3d.
and it is difficult to overestimate the significance OF
the fact. Some six weeks ago, the meeting OF DIS
senters in London resolved to support MIR. Mall Ill
his previously -avowed purpose to make the dis
establishment of the English Church pohtlcal
question. / need not repeat what l then said TO
show how far these men were from nourlshlng any
thing like selfish sectarian policy MI
Malls speech last night showed that, and showed IL
so clearly to draw from his most distinguished
opponents an admission of the fact accompanied
with unusual eulogiums upon the sincerity ana hlgh
motive of his effort
Mr. Malls resolution declared that 1t is exponent
at the earliest practicable period to apply the pol
icy initiated by the dsestablishment OF the irlsh
Church by the act of 1869 to the other ChurcheS
established by law in the United Kingdom 1t Is
not easy TO conceive elsewhere than in England the
alarm and anger excited by such propositi9h'
Time was when Mr. Malls bOdness would nave
been rewarded with visit to the Tower. To-Day
he draws upon himself the pous rage of ecclesasti-
cal newspapers and the gentle fury of country par
sons Let il be set down to the credit of the House
of Commons that great majority, bitterly hosllo
TO Mr.. Mall listened with entire p0lltenesS anu
good temper to his speech in favor OF propoSl'ioh
exceedingly odous TO them. Nearly everybody III
the House who is not Dissenter has some personal
and probably also some pecuniary interest IN the
continued existence of the Church asa State Church
MFR. Bright once described the military and naval
services rs gigantic system of outdoor relief Tor
the British aristocracy. To a considerable extent,
the same thing might be said of the Church. 1t is
an asylum for decent poverty respectfully connected
for Younger sons of great families and for poor rea
tons of rich men, Iii great deal more than this of
course and the feelings enlisted in its defense are In
many cases very noble and true but part OF the
asperity excited by free comment on Church abuses
may fairly be traced to such motives as have sug-
gcsted. The country gentlemen regard an assault
upon their Church with scarcely less horror than
attack upon the land laws game laws. AS matters
now stand they know that such an attack cannot
Immediately succeed, but they have seen so many
changes that they begin to lose confidence in every
thing They see a great majority session dwinde
swiftly into minority two three sessions later,
and they listen to Mr. GladstOnes declaration of per-
petual hostility to disestablishment with dismal
recollection of previous pledges not less distinct that
did not outlast the changes of public opinion Ac-
cordincly they listened with no little terror to the
equivocal promises of Mr.. Bruce the Home Secre-
tary, who was put up first to answer MIR. Mail. MIR.
Bruce is perhaps the most cOnspicuously unlucky
member ofMr GladstOne's Cabinet. It's maxim that
1tOinc secretaries ulusl 10 uipOPulh' MI III u'O
has certainly done his best to Justify the maxim.
and has shown a capacity for awkward indscretions
that might excite the jealousy of Sir John Pabing
ton himself. lie contrived to say two things last
night more than usually maadroit: that Establish
mcnts in the abstract were not good things, and that
as for this particular establishment, no ministry
would be justified in attempting to upset 1t unless
they were sure Of succeeding Poor Mr. Bruce ought
to know for be has had to consent to the abandon
ment Of his Licensing bill, and Mr. Dsrael did not
fail to chat him nercessy upon the old assOcia-
ton Of ideas which led him to lay down such prn-
ciple.
The real interest OF the debate, however, lay in
the speeches OF Mr. Disraeli and Mr.. Gladstone 1t
must be powerful sentiment which arrays these
two old antagonists the same side, yet they are
both sincere in their way. Nobody supposes that
MI Disraeli takes very deep religious concern in
the welfare of the Church. What moves him to its
defense is the political necessity of consulting the
preiudccs of his party when ii can be done without
impeTng its or his prospects. One may fancy that
to a man of Mr.. Disraeis speculative turn of mind,
most cIeeds pretty much alike. MIR. GladstOnes
pety on the other hand, is not only sincere but in
tense and il is quite possible that if he had to choose
between loyalty to the Liberal party and devotion
to his church. he would choose the latter Naturally
enough therefore, the Tory leader is found resisting
for establishment has been made out. He declared
his belief that the majority of the country is the
side of the Church; that in the rural districts it is
stronger than all other sccs together aud the great
opponent of Democracy went so far as to suggest,
though not to propose plebiscitum the question
of Church or no Church. AS for the Irish Church
and it's dsestabishment, Mr. Disraeli admitted that
the precedent is perfect one If you look at 1t logi
cally that the overthrow Of the State Church in
Ireland ought logically to be followed by the over
throw of the State Churches in Scotland and in En-
gland. But fortunately, added the orator, England
is not governed by logic; it has a parliamentary
Governments it is governed by rhetoric and not
by logic One would like 10 know whether
Mr. Dis1aeh really believes this, or be-
ieves what he said Immediately after that
but for rhetoric England would long ago shaye
been erased from the list Of leading communities;
whether he really believes anything he says, or that
anybody else says In any event, he wants things
let alone. and remarks, ingenuOusly that although
not prepared 10 wish that the fair progress of this
country should for a moment cease, he thinks the
time has come when in matters of great change the
country requires repOse. As if the Tory party ever
held any other creed 1t has always been for things
as they are, except when out of Office when il is
strongly for getting in again at the earliest moment
The conclusion of his speech was III higher tone
than usual with Mr. Disrael domestic affairs and
il was fine touch to base his opposition more on his
regard for the State than for the Church
The notion had gained ground, after Mr. Bruces
speech that the Government was sincerely alarmed
at the prospect of a detection among It's Non-Con-
formst supporters and that it would not commit IT.
self irrevocably against Mr.. Malls motion. The
Cabinet must oppose it this time, but the question
Oh