The daily dispatch. [volume] (Richmond [Va.]) 1850-1884, 1871-12-25
Can an Amendment which requires II
mere majority vote be attached 10 "a
bill which requires II two-fhirds vote !:

w
DEBATE IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE.
FRIDAY, December -, 1871.
The following is a small part Of the debate
referred to elsewhere. The speeches of
ConkIin=, Trumbull, and EdmundS, are not
here, nor all of Mr.. Thurlnan's remarks.
But enough is here given to show the points
in the case, and how they were met by Mr..
Thurman:
Mr.. THURMAN I think might admit
almost every proposition for which the sena-
tors have contcnded, and yet my point OF
order would appear to hc well taken. In the
first place, what is said by the Senator from
Vermont. Why, that 10y parliamentary law
YOU may change the whole nature OF Il bill
that if there be 10 rule OF the House to pre-
vent you from so doing by requiring that
| amendments shall be germane to the matter
Of the bill, the House is ut perfect liberty to
| change black into white and white into black,
to strike out the whole Of the bill, ii you
choose. and to insert a new bill upona totally
different subject. agree with that. | have
commended for that in the Senate before, and
/ shall ever contend for it until the Senate
shall adopt some rule, which it never will
with my appreciation. similar to that OF the
House of Representatives.
| admit that this is that general parliament
tary law; and if this were III ordinary bill of
legislation, admit that you might adopt any
amendment you saw fit, however incongru-
Gus it might be. Nay, l go so far as to say
that you might adopt an amendment which
was plainly unconstitutional, and you might
do ii for the purpose of defeating the bill,
not that you could pass the bill after you had
adopted the amendment, because that would
violate your oaths to support the Constitu-
ton; but you may defeat Il bill even in that
extreme way if you see fit to do it.
| But my argument is that in the Constitu-
ton of the United States mot more i'll this
fourteenth amendment than in another pro-
vision of the Constitution there are certain
matters Of legislation which are peculiar, out
of the course of ordinary legislation, and
that in respect to them the Constitution has
rs much force as any rule this body can
adopt requiring amendments to be gerinanc
to the subject. In these special cases higher
rule than rule Of the Senate, the ConStitll-
ton ITSELF requires that amendments shall be
geImane to the subject of the bill.
The first of these has already been COM
mented upon. 1t is the case of Il proposition
to amend the Constitution of the United
a resolution us that must be submitted to the
President for his appreciation or not; that
does not touch the question of order at all.
am free to say that if the question were res
tnteqra, if there had been no decision (there
was an actual decision in the case that has
been referred toy of the Supreme Court of the
United States, and if there had been 10 plac'
| tice Of the Congress to the contrary, should
hold that proposition to amend the ConSti
tuition of the United States ought to he
submitted to the President for his ap-
!. proyal, and that if he vetoed it it would
be incumbent on Congress to recon-
slider that proposition. The whole oh.
jcct Of veto is not to defeat bill in the
presidential pleasure, but to require of the
legislative body to again consider that bill
with the objections OF the Executive. 1t is
not an absolute veto; it is a veto that only
stays legislation uutil the subject can be re-
considered and the objections urged by
the President cstn be reflected upon by the
Congress. That is all tlmt it is; and ii the
most ordinary piece Of legislation requires
that the Congress shall submit its action to
the President in order tlmt he may study it,
and it he disapproreS it may send it lack to
Congress with his objection, so that Congress
may reconsider the subject, it does seem to
ne that II the question were res fntegra we
ought to say that the highest OF all acts we
can perforn-an attempt to change the fun
damenal law OF the land-comes within that
provision and requires those safeguards of
consideration and reconsideration.
But that is res adju0icata !; there is an end
of all controversy about that. That question
was raised on the adoption Of the eleventh
amendment to the Constitution. The reso-
luton was not presented to the President for
his approval, and of course never received
his signature. The validity of the eleventh
amendment was attacked in the Supreme
Court of the United States, in the case OF
Hollngsworth Is. The State Of Virginia, on
that very ground; and the Supreme Court
unanimously decided that the resolution OF
the Congress did not require the approval OF
the President. That question, then, is res
adjudtcdta i'll the judiciary, and it is res ad-
jndicata here. This very fourteenth amend.
ment that imposes these disabilities never was
signed or approved by the President; the
resolution proposing it to the States neyerre.
ceived the Executive appreciation.
This Is a provision Of the Constitution that
is peculiar. 1t takes the subject Of it out OF
the course Of ordinary legislation, and here
is the highest proof that it is taken out of the
course Of ordinary lesislation--the fact that
the signature and approval of the President
is not required. There is the very highest
proof that it Is taken out Of the course of or.
binary legislation. A two-thirds majority i
| required i'll the first place, and the signature
Of the President is not required. That
takes it out of the ordinary course
of legislation. Now, although the Ian.
/ guage is not exactly the same, yet
| III IL en- r,oorlu fha Srua that fhn,.o