The New York herald., 1870-01-09
Church and stato-Thc French Chambers
and the Council.


France with the Holy See are, by government
consent, to form the subject OF discussion in
the legislative body on the llth instant This,
It must be admitted is o significant move
ment. but IL cannot be called surprise.
Bavaria has already, in manner more OF less
formal gone into the same questions. So,
too, has Spain; and both Bavaria and Spain
have come to the conclusion that the DEGREES
of the Council are to be rejected If in any
way they interfere with the civil government.
Action of similar kind has in fact, been
taken by all the Catholic governments OF
Europe. Austria and Italy have spoken out
with an emphasis quite as remarkable as that
of Bavaria and Spain. 1t is notorious that
every Catholic government in Europe Is, on
certain questions in open antagonism to the
Council.
As yet, however, the Paraments have
taken no formal action. We know how the
governments feel, but the sentiment Of the
nations, as expressed by their chosen repre-
senta.ives, we wait to learn. The discussion
on the Council and the relations of France to
French Chambers on the llth will be the most
important event to which as yet the Council
has given birth. Napoleon stands forth before
the world us the protector Of the Holy See.
But for French bayonets the Holy Father
would have found it impossible to live in Rome
any time these last twenty odd years. II French
bayonets were removed tomorrow from the
Holy City there would be such a flutter among
the old women of the Vatican as has not been
witnessed in many centuries Are French
soldiers in Rome with the consent of the
French people, or only because of the imperial
mind and will? Does France approve, or does
she not, of the arrangement which fastens upon
her the charge of wild and wicked inconsis-
tency? Is liberty valuable only in France and
for Frenchmen? These are q few Of the qucs-
tions which the approaching discussion will
raise, and which in some form it must settle,
To our untutored minds it does seem
an unreasonable and outrageous thing
that Frenchmen, while they claim liberty
for themselves, should deny liberty to
the Italians, or, if you will, to the Roman
people. 1t will not surprise us if the approach
ing discussion prove the death of the iniquitous
September convention. We have no objec-
ton to Rome being proclaimed free city.
We have no objection to the Pope being left in
possession Of the Vatican and of the Church Of
st. Peter. But with every lover Of liberty
in ali the world, we must and we do protest
against ths indefinite prolongation of the
French occupation Of the Holy City and we
shall think less Of sse French people than we
ever have done If as one Gf the drst results OF
the new rtg5nae period is not ixed .or the
termination Of the French occupation of Rome.
This, however, will be but ono Of the many
questions which the free Parliament Of France
will have to consider in connection with the
Ecumenical Council and the Holy See gen
orally. 1t will have to consider the question
Of Papal iniallibinty, the new dogmas and the
propositions Of the Syllabus. 1t will be
something marvellous if tho countrymen of
Voltaire and Rousseau, of Massillon and of
Hyacinthe, now that their mouths are
opened, do no. frighten the Vatican
into something like respect for common sense.
AT any rate we expect such speaking as shall
leave the authorities Of the Catholic Church
no longer in doubt that the time is no more
when the Church, as in the days of Hildebrand,
can dominate civil governments. The action
of France will prove contagious. In Austria,
in Bavaria, in Belgium, in Italy, in Spain, in
Portugal the discussion will be carried on, and,
unless we greatly mistake, Rome will be
taught that whatever she may be to certain
weak consciences and timid souls she is no
longer in any sense the mistress Of the world.
If matters turn out as We expect the Ecurneni-
although in sense exactly the opposite of
that which was intended. 1t will complete
the breach between Church and State, and
work another and even grander reforma-
tion.
All this we say in spite Of our belief in the
continued usefulness of the Catholic Church.
Nay, all this we say because Of our conviction
that little more common sense is all
that is required to make that Church
one Of the best agencies in the gov
erning Of mankind. A little less of the old
wife in the Vatican, little less Of petticoat
nhuonce near the Holy Father, and al will be
we'll But ifthe Pope and his friends have no
nobler work 70 perform than to proclaim
humanity infallible, to multiply absurd dogmas
and to denounoe all that distinguishes this age
from the dark ages of the past, they must make
mp their minds to lose whatever respect the
world is yet willing to give them. We live in
active times. We move on with the speed Of
the lightning We are still willing, however,
to cling to what is reasonable in religion. II
the Church will advance with us we shall be
glad Of her company. IF she will not, she
must remain behind. In all fairness of spirit
we say it, the present attitude of the Catholic
authorities justiies the belief that the proudest
Church the world has known will soon take its