The Pacific commercial advertiser. [volume] (Honolulu, Hawaiian Islands) 1856-1888, 1869-08-07
The Irish Church bill
in the House OF Lords.

and agreed to. The Marquis Of Salisbury moved
to strike out clause 9th, which requires that
payments be made for the retention of ecclesi-
astical residences by the Church. Tie Duke of
Cleveland moved an amendment to authorize
grants to Catholics and Presbyterians. After a
long debate the House divided and the amend
ment was lost-113 TO 146-
LONDON, July 3.-The Times to-day says that
the votes in the House of Lords last evening have
had the effect TO render the Irish Church bill
more favorable to the established Church and
moro Extensively partial in its provisions.
Archbishop Cullen has addressed n letter to
the officers OF the Catholic College, saying that If
rhe bill is mutilated by the House of Peers, the
nation must have a fuller measure Of justice.
In the House of Lords, tonight, consideration
Of the Irish Church bill was resumed in Com
mittee. Clauses IL, IL, Is and II were agreed
To without amendment, except as to date-when
the property OF the Church shall pass into the
hands OF the Commissioners, which was changed
to January i, 1872 Ii was promised on the
part of the Government, that an additional clause
should be framed, providing that Irish Bishops
may retain their seats in the House Of Lords.
Bishop Peterborough amendment, that all
compensation be paid without deduction Of in
cOIne tax therefrOm, was adopted-95 to so.
Clauses Is to Is inclusive were agreed to.
The consideration of clauses 10 to % inclusive
were postposed. Lord Carnaryon's amendment,
fixing the Communication of life interests at four
teen years purchase, was adopted.
JULY O.-lne E1Ou-c OF LOTUS last night re-
sumed the consideration Of the Irish Church bill.
Lord Lyfford was afraid of the amendment
granting the value Of their manses to Presbyte-
rians. After discussion it was withdrawn.
The Archbishop of Canterbury moved an
amendment to clause 18th, that private endow-
ments made since 1860, instead of 1660, be re
tanned by the Church. He pointed out the large
~endowments which were made prior to 166O, and
said there was no reason why they should not be
dealt with in the same manner as those made
after. lie thought the discrimination unjust and
dangerous. 1t would shake the faith of the peo-
pie In private
Lord Harthery opposed the amendment on the
ground that private endowments made prior to
l6G0 were purely mythical in reference to the
Ulster grant. He said that it was in no sense at
present an endowment.
Bishop Peterborough supported the amend
ment, urging that neither on the ground Of JUS
tice or legal right, ought the Church to be de-
prived of these real ~endowments.
Earl Granville proposed to grant n half million
sterling instead, as the difficulty Of establishing
the legality Of carly would absorb
the whole value in litigation
Finally, the Archbishop OF Canterbury moved
the amendment that all Government lands granted
by the Crown since 1860 be given to the new
church in a body.
After long discussion, a division was had ands
the amendment was carried by los to SIS.
Clauses 80 and 80 inclusive were agreed to.
Clause SO was taken up.
Earl Limerick moved an amendment, providing
that the poor rates be deducted from any rent
charge sold in lieu Of titles.
The Marquis Of Salisbury remarked that this
clause was an arithmetical puzzle, and was evil
IDENTIFY intended as a sop to the Irish landlords,
as Government proposed, but the bill was the
most penurious and e~xacting measure ever devised.
The HSuse divided on the Marquis of Liner
ick's amendPent, which was adopted-91 to "a.
Clause SO, as amended, and clauses "a to 3S,
inclusive, were agreed to. -
LONDON, July THE Times, in an article on
the Irish Church bill, says the bill must become
q law this session. Parliament must DESTROY
Protestant Supremacy and establish religious
eqGanty In Ireland, but not attempt to set up a
multiplicity of Establishments. If ecclesiastical
property In Ireland Is to be put on a permanent
footing, we must recognize these facts and apply
50 much surplus as may be necessary to supply
homesteads for ministers.
The London Daily Nelrs says the Irish Church
bill will leave the House of Lords with n very
different character from that in which it entered
and be much less acceptable to the country. 1t
will be quite impossible for the Commons to ac-
cept the amendments made by the Peers, and it
viii be their duty to restore the bill to its original
form. The Lords have done their best to spoil
the measure they prudently abstained from re-
jecting. The Commons must transform the de-
formed.
The Times, commenting on last nights de-
bates, says that by their last act the House of
Lords have completed the transformation of the
scheme. They have refused, by n
Of 30, TO approve the clause appropri-
ating the surplus funds of the Church they
have preferred to reserve the question for future
consideration. Argyle condemned the vote as an
attempt to reverse the vote by which the Duke
of Cleveland's amendment proposing concurrent
endowment, was rejected. Although we agree
the Marquis of Salisbury, that the Lords
can scarcely have the provision for the residence
Of Catholic priests at heart, we must acknowl-
edge the justice Of the Duke Of Argyle's general
conclusion, that the vote unquestionably rcyerses
in spirit, and Is Of not from decisiOn) against
the Duke OF Cumberland's scheme. The Times
believes the country ready and willing to support
the grant of ecclesiastical residences to the Catho-
lies and Presbyterians and If the opportunity
to make il is rejected, il will be because the gov
erning power are unable to rise above the catch
words Of party, and dare not look openly and
,ourageously at the truth.
NEW YoRK, July S.-The Hzald's London
special says the action Of the House Of Lords on
he Irish Church bill causes intense excitement.
Gladstone and Bright are in daily receipt of let
from persons Offering the recommencement Of
he Reform League agitation. but they discounte-
nance the movement for the present, and express
Inc belief that the Lords and the people will
compromise on the basis of n pcstponement of
he date of disestablisbment till January, 1872,
BY paying half a million pounds in the lump, in
leu of private donations, and by computing life
at fourteen years
A letter has been circulated privately among
Snown Progressives, asking in view of the
probable failure Of the Irish Church bill through
he opposition Of the House Of Lords-tbe Gov
:rnment. the Commons and the country, whether
hey will permit the use Of their names to n pub
ic call for n mass meeting to consider the best
institutional mode of getting rid of this OBJ
~truction to legislation based on the expressed
will Of the people
LONDON, July 10-Nlidnight.-In the House of
lords tonight the Irish Church bill was up for
he reception of the report Of the COMMITTEES
On motion Of Lord Cairns, the date Of LIST of
lay, 1871, was substituted for the LIST of Janu-
ny, 1872, throughout the bill.
Lord Redsdalc moved an amendment that the
representation Of the Irish Church and Catholic
in cases of vacancy in Bishoprics, nomi-
three persons, and for the Crown to select
them, and that the Crown be empowered to
ummon one Archbishop and two Bishops from
ach Church to sit in Parliament.