Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1869-02-11

see, we sand in this position. II she House
and Senate. by joint action before hand, can de-
ties mine " hat votes shall be counted and what
votes snail not be counted, then the House aud
senate can determine who rs and who IL not
elected-vto shall and who shall not be Pres.
idehtoi the United Statee-and although does
not make any difference at this moment, yet
II this House can say with the Senate that su Gu
State sh all not be counted ont, and that such
another safe shali no. ps counted In. then,
Of the House, and Of the Senate, AT any time 10
overthrow the vote OF the people, and il will be
done.
After further remarks by Mr. Butler amid
great confusion and Interruptions, he said -
Now, suppose the Senate had gone into its
chamber aud had decided after the votes OF
New York and New Jersey had been counted
that no more States should be cou uted. And
having decided that had ordered the Pfest.
dent to take the stand, with the gavel In his
he had declared Horatio seymour TO ne the
President OF the United States, what would
have been the remedy, From this moment
and under this precedent unless the House
seris Its privileges, from this moment, l say,
your liberties and the liberties OF the country
are gone, and we are in the hands of an exec
utve body, known as the Senate of the United
States L call attention to IL, because saw an
act OF the Speaker which was well Intended,
and which have no doubt proceeds ed from his
conviction of duty, and which do not, there.
lore. particularly criticise. Suppose that when
he Precedent of the Sen ate hereafter shall make
The declaration that a Vice President was eIec.-
ed who was not elected, and that Vice Presi-
dent should happen to be the Speaker OF this
House, he could then order the Sergeant at
Arms To stifle the voice of the people in order
TO secure his own election. (Sensation.I
speaker Coifax (who was occupying
members deskD arose and asked whether
he member from Massachusetts desired a re-
ply.
Mr.. Butter. (Mass.)-I don't at this moment.
am only putting question. 1 do not mean
IN any way to crIticise the Speaker. stated
that the Speaker did exactly what be thought
to be his duty. and / don't think he was in
fuenced one HAIR, because he could not doubt
that he was the choice of the people, and that
under no circumstances would the people per.
init that choice OF theirs to oe overthrown; and,
therefore, be had not a single personal tbought
in 1t, and why L don't allow him TO reply is
that 1 would not wis to seem to have thought
for moment that / was attacking his posi-
ton. But put II 70 his own good sense land
would rather argue TO thar than to any other
power on earth) this question:: Suppose we
mad man in The Speakers chair who was
doubtful whether be had been elected by the
voice OF the people, he could. by the power of
the gend'a mes Of the House, by the constabu.
larry of the House, choke the voice OF the peo-
pie through the representatives, and allow the
President of the Senate to declare that he was
elected Vice President of the United States l
am speaking OF supposed case.
MIR. Butler continued at some length, aud
concluded by Offering the following resolu.
tions:
'.Resolred. That the 22d joint rule of the House
and Senate be, ana hereby is, rescnded on the
par OF the House."
sReSOlrS0. That the resolutions now pendip0
be, and hereby are, referred to a select com.
mlitfe OF fve,with leave tn report at ANYTIME"
MIR. Speaker Colfax (from a seat which he
occupied on the floor / acknowledge. Mr..
Speaker. my surprise when referred to directly
by the gentleman from Massachusetts in what
he pIopound@d as a hypothetical case, that
when asked HIN, the poor courtesy of reply
ing at the moment, he declined to grant it.
Mt. Butler.-l gave the reasons for my
declining.
Speaker Colfax-There are various WAYS of
attacking q person-someames by charge
dIrect-sous times with charging him with
what b. do in the future, aud the gentle
man from Massachusetts, is master of both
methods. Ii he did not in the remarks which
he made, which he VIII read to- morrow In the
GioJe, alluee alphabetically TO the conduct
which he who is now speaking TO you may be
guilty OF In future day, when in sitting in
lie chair as Vice President for the counting OF
the next electoral votes, then / do not UNDER
stand language.
MI. Butler ON the contrary. sir
Spt aker CUlfaX.-I yield To the gentleman,
though be declined TO yield to me. ILau ghter
and applause
Mr.. Butier.-I told the Speaker that 1 did
not refer to him alphabetically. SAID that the
Speaker, when the mex electoral vstes are be-
ing counted. might be the candidate for Vice
President, and did not have the gentleman In
my mind at all. / did not think OF him
Mr.. COlfax.-I accept the explanation of the
gentleman from Massachusetts. am glad to
hnd that was mistaken, although was list
enlng carefully To his language and his simlles.
There question here between the two
Houses. As one who is to leave this House,
perhaps forever, desire to address words of
warning 40 fellow mem bers, to avoid, as far as
possible, conflict between the two branches to
which are Intrusied by the Constitution the
legislative powers o; the Government. Ii il is
apparent that duties have been performed in
conformity TO me law, anding on the statute
book. then L Pray you beware! Will this
Houser OF sny mt nber Of it. choose to ~ down