The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1869-04-24
Of bis son. who was twenty four when

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM II. KIDNEY.
THIS witness, who said he was resident OF P0u8n'
description Of The properties contaiaed IN collodon
as 10 the various cOlors and degrees OF light and the
Kind Oh nYnt used IN pnotographing. On ms GLOSS,
sse nTev ~ ina Mr. Sea ana nj was Un
able TO tell what prism and other techncaties con-
nected with the art meant.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES r. LIvERM0RE.
Examined by Mr.. Townsend-l reside ut 227 Fiith
avenue; l was formerly member OF the frm OF
Lvermore, Jews Coz Ia tne cary part o. Malca
with Mumler at his gallery In Broadway had had
some very earnest inquiries made by some irlends
OF mine in London about this spiritual photograph.
ing business, and went as skeptic and stranger
to Mr.. Mumer to see II there was any truth IN II.
Q. Was any promise made 10 you by himS A. No
promise whatever; told him wanted 10 sit for my
photograph and lie gave me every facility Tor ex.
occurred in the operating after he had accom-
panied Mumier and his wife up stairs, and how ne
had changed his position several times When humler
guard and to make sure that he could not be hum
plugged; how lie had refused to pay for the first pic
LETT rather indignant and how at subsequent slttngs
satisfactory photographs were developed, and how
DIR. Gray Immediately recognized them as portraying
relatives OF hls how he sat five tames In succession
until no satisfied, the first two sittings resulting
In nothing but shadowy background how the
form OF his wife Enthusiastically. appeared on
hrs Photographic how he went to Munler al frsc
prejudiced against him and warned against him as
trickster by some friends In Boston; but now he
did not desire to do any injustice to Mr. Livermore
ana for that reason he gave this testimony; how he
refused to pay him his ten dollars for hls FIRST pic
lures which were SO unsatisfactory, but afterward
gave him twenty dollars because he was so wen sat-
isded with Mumler.)
that is behind your head on that picture that you
say bears the representation form OF your wiler
o. DID You recognize anything peculiarly spiritual
at the time the photograph was takenY A. No. sir.
Q. LOOK at that picture and see II there Is anything
about 1t like your wifes A. 1t resembles her some
what as much as one human face does another
There is similarity IN all human faces.
resemblance between that picture and your wiles
A. / don't see any resemblance more than one
human face bears to another.
q. Mr.. Lvermore, are you q believer in the doc.
trne that departed spirits return to earth and visit
their reiativess A. | am not spirtuaist IN the
spiritual phenomenon which presents itself to my
own senses.
of that belief so far as you dor A. l do.
Q. Do you believe that spirits are material or i'm
naturalf A. That Is o question which, think am
not called upon to answer so far as my observation
goes, the physical phenomenon seen by me either
occurs from the force OF the atmosphere or other
Is apparently material.
Q. Describe any one OF those material forms A.
mp sseS e 90 ae Ye
q. 10 the tOuchf A. Yes.
O. To the eyer A. Yes.
friend Mr.. Variey l spent some time In the
examination OF this phenomenon; he had electric
pose; we both came to the conclusion that force
exists which is subject to no known laws that II
was real as real magnetic as force force, ia
O. Did you make the experiment with view to
ascertain that fact2 A. Yes.
Q. Neither OF you was able to determine whether 1t
was positive or negative forcea A. We did not DIS
that 1t had any particular relation to magnetic
force except that 1t was as real.
Q. Was II created by artificial meansi A. No.
O. How did it exhibit itselfs A. Through the pre-
Q. Only through that presencef A. Yes: the ex
animation was made for that purpose.
@, And you watched the effect OF what was dOnei
| A. The form occurred In our presence.
q. What was I'll A. 1t would be impossible fol
to descrlbe 1t would take me too long to explain
| o. DID you observe during the time these photo
| graphs were being taken by Mumler whether there
| was an exhibition OF the sort? A. did not.
| O. When you went into the room with Mumler die
| his vile remain thereS A. She did not; she wa
standing one time In one place end one time IL
Q. Did she act as any such medium as in the cast
with your friend Mr.. Varleys A. No; she did no
@. 10 you believe those pictures are spiritual
| phenomenal A. My belief is not yet settled; hav,
| not watched sufficiently in that particular.
| @. You do not mean to,be understood as believing
| in the .phot0graphing Of spirits A. do not.
Q. Do you suppose that by electricity or know
ledge Of magnetism that definite forms can be pro
duced as human A. think every form Is human.
q. ask you whether your knowledge OF cleo
produced which is not human and yet at the sans
time IS susceptible to the eye ear and touchs A.
o. Have You known Of any such instances as tina
occurring9 A. have seen these physical nantes
| tations
sonal instances A. do not care to go into my ex
perience.
care to narrate his own experience he would not b
| compelled to do 80.
The witness said he did not wish to disclose It a
| fore excused.
Re-direct-You were entirely conscious at tn
time you were sittingf A. was.
Q. Were you conscious of any form having it
hand In front OF your A. am certain there was n
form visible to the human eye in front OF me.
q. Are you certain there was nothing standing be
hind you A. Positive.
Ann rf'7S slys OF AgS E X N1 pavyo
know Mr.. MumlerY A. do, little.
q. You visited his establishment A. Yes, sir.
q. What was the object OF your visitf A. wen
there for the purpose OF obtaining spirit photo
q. Did he promise or guarantee that he woul
give you ones A. l did not see Mi. Mumler; SAL
q. Did she promise or guarantee anythingS a
q. Did you sit for ones A. Yes, sir, 1 did.
q. Did you get picturei A. Not on the first time
q. Did you get one the second Tuner A. The secon
time the figures were rather indstinct.
Y. Was the picture cOmpletedY A. Yes, sir.
q. Did you recognize the picture2 A. Yes, bu
they were NOT sufficiently distinct to be recognize
q. Did you call AGAIN. A. I called again about 81
weeks afterwards; Mrs. Mumler told me could 81
again.
q. Did you recognize thatS A. Yes, sir, pos
lively; II was recognized by all who saw II, even b
| those who did not know me-
Q. Whose was the pictureS A. My sons.
Cross.examined by Mr.. Geary-How long befor
| you had this picture taken had your son dledS
| About ten years.
q. How old was ne7 A. Twenty-six
| q. How long before he died had You seen him ? A.
| Eleven days.
q. Had you any photograph OF him takena A
| Yes, SIR; the spirit photograph was indistinct;
| told MIS- Muiner 80 aud she said she was sorry OF
| one OF the photographs there appeared two figure
| whom take TO be my mother and my brother.
| O. How long since did your mother dleS A.
| think 1t Is twenty years.
| G. How old was she when she died A. Seventy
| q. How old was your brother when he died2 A
| don't know.
| q. Was he q chnd' A. think he was abou
eighteen or nineteen
z. Which OF the figures do You recognize % you
| brOtherY A. That Is my brother next me.