The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1869-07-14
ENGLAND.
Passage Of the Irish Church Bill in the House
Of Lords.

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Passage Of the Irish Church Bill in the House
Of Lords.
LONDON, July 1877 A.M M.
The debate on the Irish Church bill was resumed
In the House OF Lords last evening.
The Earl OF Clancarty moved that the bill be read
the third time three months hence. He opened the
debate in speech in support of his motion. He ad.
mtted that the verdict Of the country In the late
elections was favorable to the bill, but the details
were then unknown TO the people. He believed if
the matter could be tested now the bill would be
rejected.
The Earl OF Derby said that beyond opposing the
second reading he had cOntenred himself by giving
silent vote. his objections to the bal were not re-
moved He was opposed on principle TO disestab-
lishment ana disend0wment Even with the amend
menr recently introduced the established Church
was left with q miserable pttance, absolutely in
sufflcent for her purposes. He would vote for the
amendments II they were passed, but ne advised
their withdrawal, as to throw the responsibility
OF rejected reasonable amendments on the House OF
Commons. He hoped the Lords would firmly resist
all the attempts OF the Commons to modify the
amendments.
Further discussion ensued after which the Earl Of
Clancarty's amendment was withdrawn.
The Earl Of Derby announced his intention to sub.
NIT protest against the bill.
The bill was then read the third lime. and the
question reourred-sha the bill pass
The Earl Of Devon moved as an amendment the
omission Of the clause permitting the bishops to be
retained in their seats. and spoke in favor OF his
motion.
Earl De Grey, on the part Of the government sup.
ported the Amendment
Lord Cairns opposed any alteration Of the amend
ments. He thought It no greater anomaly to allow
the bishops to retain their seats than the bill ITSELF
which Is altogether an anomaly and full Of novelties
The Earl Of Carnarvon supported the amend
ment. He urged the point that II the bishops were
allowed to keep their seats the substance would
have gone, but the shadow be retained. He thought
It better that the measure should be anal aud com.
plete.
Lord Hatherley urged the Inconsistency Of the
retention Of seats by the bishops when the quanca-
ton was gone.
After some further discussion the Lords divided
with the following result
For tue amendment. Observation-Disclosures. $50
Agaist' 81
The announcement was greeted with loud and
long continued cheering from the Ministerial
benches.
Earl Stanhope moved the insertion Of a provso
Tor furnished residences ana globes for the Catholic
and Presbyterian clergy and introduced the prlnci.
pie Of concurrent endowment.
Lord HOughtOn thought that the requirements
produced the impression that Ireland was TO give
religious equality. The bill did not. He would sup
port the proposal for concurrent endowment.
The Duke Of Somerset thought the bill ought to be
liberal to Catholics and Protestants. What the bill
wanted throughout was little generosity. The
House OF Commons in their amendments protested
TO qSe generosity, but unfortunately, their liper.
ality was a. one-slded. He supported the motion.
The Earl of kimberley opposed the motion on the
ground that It was contrary to the pledges given by
the liberal party at the gcn:ral election.
The Earl OF Granard also opposed he amendment.
The Catholic hierarchy was not prepared 70 accept
State endowment 1t was impossible for Catholics
TO vote FOR the motion except az the expense of con-
Sistency and good faith. What the Irish Catholics
wanted was the disestablishment and abandonment
OF the Established Church, and social and political
equality In place Of the system OF ascendancy when
Ostraclsed Catholics and deprived the Irish OF all To-
cal selfg0vernment
The Earl OF Dunyaven said that the hopes Of the
Catholics had been much disappointed by the cha
facter which the bill had now assumed. Instead Of
being measure OF disestabshment and dsendow.
ment it was a measure Of disestabilshment and re.
endowment. He urged the point that the Parlia.
mont would never remove the discomfort or obtain
the confidence OF the Irish people but by bona ade
measure guaranteeing perfect religious equality.
Earl Russell supported the motion. he favored
religious equality In Ireland but without the princi-
pie Of concurrent endowment the present bill does
not give It.
Lord westbury had not voted for the second read.
Ing Of the bill out of Difference to public opinion
He thought at the last elections the question was
not sufficiently understood TO enable the coun-
try TO dictate to the Legislature. He thought
the present constitution OF the Church was
great evil. He would favor any meas.
ore OF benincent reform. He regarded the
present time as opportunity to send forth mes.
sage OF peace and religious equality, and he would
regret II this opportunity 10 restore peace lost
through the bigotry Of one party or the high spirit
of the other, which induced them to dsclam con-
current endowment and pronounce 1t o sin to 40
anything for religious sect which comprises nine.