The New York herald., 1869-03-21
NEW YORK CITY.
supasME cuuRI-spEcIAL (EGM.
THE CcGRrs.


ON the stand.
Before Judge Barnard.
The People, er rel James Fisk, Jr., u.s. Th0Da:
c. Duraat-This case, pursuant to adjournment
came up yesterday. The vice president OF the com
pany appeared, under q previous order to punish
him for contempt for declining to submit to an ex-
animation before referee appointed to take test
mony in the matter
Mr.. David d. Field opened the proceedings by ask
ing for the commitment OF Mr.. Durant
Mr. Tracey on behalf OF the defendant, submitted
that the order Of reference was utterly invalid and
that therefore no contempt had been committed.
The Court remarked that the surrounding circum-
stances did not show any Intentional contempt and
the defendant would not therefore, be punished.
He would, however, be compelled to proceed with
Thomas O. Durant was then examined by Mr..
Field-Ee said that he was vice president OF the
Union Pacific Railroad Company and had been so
since the formation OF the company he is director
and stockholder OF the Credit Mobilier; he had
been director of the latter company; that ended
nearly two years ago; he knew nothing OF the Credit
Mobiller since he lett the directorate; ne supposed
O. What had become OF thems
Mr.. Tracey objected, but his objection was over
A. can only speak up to the time left the COM
sawmills and advances 10 Mr.. Hoxie; Mr.. Hoxie mad
q contract TO build 100 miles OF the Union Pacific
Railroad; his name is A. II. Hoxie; he lives in Ne
braska-
Q. How came the Credit Mobilier to get these
Objected to- and objection overruled.
A. BY subscription TO their own stock; their own
capital subscribed by their own stockholders, and
paid in dollar for dollar; the Credit Moblier has
received no properly from the Union Pacific Rail-
roao except as being agents for Mr. Hoxie In carry
ing out his contract and making advances for him.
they received payment for him.
q. On the first 100 miles Of road onlys A. The
nrst lOo niles, and afterwards 1t was extended to
tract subsequently; the contracs was made with
Hoxie IN August 1884; 1t was carried on under his
name and nd ne carried It until September or perhaps
March, 1865; then he exhausted his means and all the
aIn,lisr, MoDi!ieI, who agreed @ carry out the
the business for him: n his asVa Contract cra was W
for cash, and the company sold the bonds and paid
States the Credit MoSseT DeVer haa the Sona
they received the funds; the Union Pacific Company
sold the bonds and used the funds in the conslruc
Credis Mobilier as Mr.. Hoxies agent.
9: DID they pay over to the Credit Mobiller as
agent OF Mr. Hoxie the proceeds OF all the bonds
they received from the government A. No; they
used them In all their business for constructing the
road can't tell the Items In the construction OF 500
Q. Was not all the property received from the gov
ernment OF the United States for the construction of
the road by the Union Pacific Railroad Company
In some form or its proceeds turned over to the
Credit MobilierS A. Never; the relation OF
the Credit kobilier to the railroad company
was simply as the agent OF Hoxie in carrying
out his contract up to 245 miles OF the road: be-
yond the Tooth meridian Ian the company has built por-
road so rapidly 10 borrow very largely: with 2 500
men and 500 teams the company had not means OF
1ts own; ! cannot give you the details of the ex-
penses without referring 10 books and papers; from
tnat point the Union Pacific Railroad Company made
q contract with Oakes Ames.
z. He was a director OF the Companyp A. No
sr; nor Is he now; he never has been.
z Was ne not az the last meeting OF the directors
and stockholdersf A. Yes, he is a stakeholder.
2. Oliver Ames, the president, Is his brothers A.
Yes, sir; the contract with 0akes Anes Is think
dated august 10, 1867; the contract was made by
resolution OF the company, subject TO the approval
oil the stockholders this Is the contract under which
over ooo miles were done, sperhaps 66I miles; In
ouiidng TINS road the company required s8 O0Oor
SlO,000,u00 beyond what they got from government:
they could not get or issue their bonds until por.
ton OF the road was completed, and that made 1t
necessary 10 have large capital carry on opera
tons; contracts have been given under my direction
as vice president and these contracts have been made
subject to approval by the stockholders: contract
was mace Win J. ". Davis, OF Nebraska; that con-
ract was mace 10 october last ana the road beyond
then a stockholder; his brother, Oliver Ames has
not always been a director
u Ii Oliver Afnes Interested with 0akes Ames In
tnat contracty A. Only to the extent OF his share
q stockholder.
q. Are the other directors Interested IN tts A.
Some OF them in the way; the contracts II any
or any profits on 20 TO the benefit of the Union Pa
cinc Railroad Company; all who advanced money to
help the company along and no one else.
Y. IL goes to the benefit OF those who have lent
money 10 the companyf A. Parties advanced the
whole s3,t5o0oo OF the Credit Moblier went IN that
way; cannot tell how the papers read without re-
possibly out Of $50 900 900 as 600 were not seem con.
sented 10 The contracts; every stockhoder had an
opportunity TO advance the money, aud II five per
cent was gained by advancing IL ne would have an
neresqn that; So 900 OF the Credit Mobiier cap
ta went IN advances for outfit and o build the road
on the nrst contract
q. They advanced for account OF Hoxie and had
an interest In the profits as you statedr A. These
things are In the contract; Mr. Durant did not know
nj fhort, af,..l
superintendent once Nebraska; the ORIGINALS were
not IN mis- charae; the Union Pacific Railroad Com
pany had an o1lce In New York; the Credit Mobiler
not that he knew OF; they had desk at the once OF
the Union Pacific Company; they had a sign there
once; wnen witness returned from the West some
been absent since the fore part OF december: he
knew but little OF the transactions OF the business OF
were officers: Mr.. Dllon was director OF the rail-
road company; he did not know where its oiice was
now; he had inquired at the Union Pacific Com
panys once OF clerk. but did not ascertain:
ne was still q stocKhoder OF the Credit Mobilier to
the extent OF $5o00oo; he Thought he had received
one dvidend OF six and another Of per cent but
could not tell how much dividend he had received:
he thought not sixty per cent possibly fty per cent
lar on two-thrds OF his stock; as TO the other third
about the time OF the 24s mile contract they had ex,
hausted all their own resources and the Pacific RaiL
road was in debt four hve mllons; they then in
creased their STOCK 81, 900, and purchased the
bonds OF the road TO that extent al eghtynve cents
and made the stockholders take II at par; he could
not say whether the new stock was premium for
taking the bonds az par, the bonds premium for
taking the stock; the dividends ne had spoken OF
were on the original twothlrds; he had never heard
OF that stock being al 600 100; the highest he mad
got for It was about 1885, he had interest In the
Oakes Ames contract, In As far as he was q stock
holder; that interest was about 30. 900 shares
U What dividend have you received on the Oakes
Ames contractY A. cannot tell; have not seen
my own books; he could not tell whether II was
hall am million or not; 1t was not paid the way OF
dividends; the trustees OF the Oakes Ames contract
Tor instance II you had interest m IT, would come
TO you with some security OF evidence OF indebted
ness, or would aot you ten or fifteen per cent and
make you sign an agreement so that you became a
partner lor building the road liable for all the debts
and liable 10 be called on for every dollar: the trus-
tees OF the contract are directors: was trustee
under one contract and resigned, ana suppose
sun am trustee under another; the last such con-
tract was made on the l. Of OctoDer with 4 ~
Davis, under q similar trust deed.
q Was u part OF your stipulation. with Davis that
the CONTRACT should be vested IA trusteesy A. IL
was made subject 10 the approval or the stockhold-
ers and for their security 70 be held IN trust for
them. n they approved II; the stockholders choose
all the trustees by their written assent.
z. Ia what form were dividends made BY the trus-
teesf You said Kind OF certificate was given
What Is ~ A. received q notice OF allotment OF a
IN fsp alla1,,