New-York tribune., 1869-03-31
THE IRISH CHURCH BILL.

SPEECHES BY DIsRAELI AND BRIGHT.
Mr.. Gladstone having, on March 1S, moved
the second reading Of the b amid loud cheers, Mr..
Dsraeli to oppose It, Adopting tho phrase
that gigantic issue at stake he referred In tone
Of warning to the experience OF 200 years back, when
gigantic issues also In question and when after
period OF civil warfare. followed by Of violent tran
quty, OF the objects aimed at really attained.
He recognized the Importance of conducting the discus
sion with forbearance and sefresraint, and his
part apologize beforehand for any rhetorical mshaps
which might wound the suscepblities OF his hearers
The BILL he said, proposed to accomplish two objecte.
Tho first the union between Church and State
which, for the Of debate We call dsesab-
lishment The second Is TO empower the State TO
seize the property of corporation which, for the
convenience OF debate call disendOwment. (Cheers
Now the first question which naturally arises is-are We
quite certain that in making the severance between
political and religious influence may not be establish
ing I'm country power greater than the acknowledged
Government ITSELF am far from considering that the
influence Of religion Is waning influence In public az
fairs. have for considerable time rather been OF
opinion that the OF period when the in
nuonce OF religion public affairs may be predominant
ton when ents ana excites all the passions OF
the nation the zeal of enthusiasm advocates one policy
recommends anotherf The Government might
be right but the Government would not be able 70 carry
out It's policy and the question would probably be decided
In way that might disturb the country or even destroy
the empire. In this country an individual though de-
nounced and expelled by "a Sect is not furlOrn being
There is the Church, OF which the sovereign Is the
head which does not refuse to that individual those
religious rites which are his consolation and comfort
therefore hold that the connection between Church and
state s really guaranty for that religious liberty ana
lous liberty and toeraton just as much as we by other
means sustain the standard Of value Passing to the
question OF dlsendowment. the Right Hon. gentleman
sad "Sr consider that II tho State sezes the prop
erty OF corporation without alleging any cause, it Is
spoiiatlon Cheers understand that II the State
alleges some penal for It's violent act though lt
NAV not be- wellfounded reason, though it may be a
tvrou al nm
for the act understand that 1t IS then consea
Hear, hear make that distinction between tho
two and think the House will find there is something
in IT, not here to uphold the principle that there Is
no difference between corporate and private property
Hear hear l acknowledge 1t fully and frankly, The
state has relations win an pr0perty' tnor OuS Is
arc OF different character. 1 would maintain
that the relations OF tho State 10 private property are the
rate property are those OF trustee. aud the duty OF
guardian to his ward is mainly to protect his interests
acter Unquestonably his first duty to that the
intentions Of tho founder are fulfilled as much as the
varying circumstances OF generations Will permit and
will make the admsslOnI wish TO argue the case fairly
that unquestonaby he finds that the at HIS
command To obtain object are beyond what Is neces
sary for the object in view that the purpose Of the
truet pernicous it is his duty to consider by what
redistribution OF those funds and or the property
can be safely accomplished. tIear But this do lay
down as a principle, which will maintain against all
comers that under no circumstances whatever ought
trustee lto appropriate to himself property OF which
he is the hduciary Hear, hear Well, .nSSY,sc,
mani Ireland discontented; among the Ses ol It's us
content one no d0n6; Is that Generate the Country
and % W viii have t Vel churches not connected with the
State fIa"o inter-, cheers, and cOuntercheers Well,
SIR what will be the probable consequence OF this policy
The honorable gentlemen will agree that am right IN
pass we must stil be prepared to encounter Irish scon
tent deposition cheersl There viii be great discon
in Ireland, the Church which N not now connected
with the State always comprises body Of learned
disciplined aud most eloquent men, who the
pOnents OF that discomfort Laughter and cheers Now
you have discomfort in Ireland and you have three
In.lfa Of al
iaughterl-who VIII only be doing their duty their
congregations by being the expCnens OF their discomfort
lContnued aughterl 1t would not be wild assumption
my part II were 10 suppose tna with the cause OF
the next great Irish dscontent the land may be IN some
degree connected. Hear hear What viii be the ne
cessary and natural feeling OF the three Churches upon
the land question think may venture to say that
entirely agree, which will be rs unanimously adopted as
any which can be sanctioned BY the Impending @eumenl
the three Churches whether they were disendowed in
the reign Of Queen Elizabeth or r. IN the reign OF Queen
and cheers And when there Is this general discon
I'VE entirely agree with the feeling Of the natonthe
land question Is question which must be settled Min
which belonged to the Church their trustees where
1t is neither the clergy dlsendowed III the reign OF
Elizabeth or to gsS9 OF srefoe efS T have Tc aDe no
the slightest doubt myself that the general discomfort
of the linen manufacturer win find eloquent organized
learned exponens without any reference to differences
ho asked was property OF the Church to be taken
awayi Her title stronger than that OF any other
landlord and sanctioned by the prescription Of three
centuries IL was not pretended that the objects for
which the property had been given not excellent
that they had not been carried out. Nor had Mr. Glad
stone made up his mind To other Church which |
would better discharge tho duty for which the property
was given The only pretext given was that the Catho
lies who Hd not wish for these endowments them |
selves wero Jealous OF the Protestants for possess
ing them. This he held TO be entirely new prln |
cple or rather it was the revival Of the old pFnc
pies Of tyranny and oppression In the darkest ages
On March 10 the second nights debate on the Irish
Church was commenced by DR.. Ball date AttorneyGen
eral for Ireand and continued by tho Irish Attorney
General Sir f. Heygate, Mr.. Mal, and Sir g. Norhcote
Mr. Bright who was received with loud cheers, said
Though myself have no faith In poltcoregous Es-
tabshments and believe in the voluntary principle yet
am willing TO admit-and II would be foolish to admit
it-that at present belief IN the usefulness of Estab
shed Churches appears this country to have the sane
ton Of majority Of people Hear, hearl The oues