The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1868-04-01


Stanton, General Moorhead and Mr. Ferry, ana tnen /,
by myself; some little conversation was had that
did not hear before got into the ROOM u was put
moment after they went in, however; Mr. Stanton
addressed Mr. Thomas az follows, whcn ! uhoe'-
stood was the summing up OF the conversauoh-
MIR. EvARTs-Never mind about that.
Witness-Mr. stanton said, ''rhen you claim 10 De
here as Secretary OF War and refuse TO OBEY my
Ordersr" Mr. Thomas said, 81 do, sir; | snail re-
livered to me and shall transact all the business oi
the War DEPARTMENT. that was the substance OF tne
conversation which heard and IN fact the CONVERSE
ton as heard 1t.
BY Mr. BUTLER-Did you make any memorandum
afterwards A. l made it at the time; had paper
in my hand at the time and took it down as the
conversation occurred; it was copied OF by clerk
in the presence OF the gentlemen with me.
Q. What was done after thatP Where did Tnomas
gO9 A. IL then after eleven O'clock the rest oil
came right to the house and left Thomas in the
room with General Schriver
CrOsseXamined by Mr.. STANBERY-The witness
stated that he went to the War Department TO see
the Secretary OF War on public business; tne Time
being a rather exciting one went there 70 TAX
subject OF removal; did talk with him on
that subject; went there IN company WIN
little before eleven new O'Clock; General Moorhead
and Mr.. Ferry were there when he arrived; thought
Mr.. Delano was there also; two or three others came
was; they did not state 1t to him; General Thomas
then came into the room; when the conversation be-
tween them and the Secretary began he nad a large
envelope and pencil in his pocket; during the con-
versation 1t occurred to him that might be well to
know what they said; did not know that he was In
the habit OF making memoranda OF Conversations;
nobody requested him TO do it; it was of his own
motion; after the conversation was ended Thought
General Thomas went out first the Secretary OF war
followed but moment after; did not state what his
object was; did not rec0ect that the Secretary re-
quested any OF the gentlemen TO go with him; wit
ness followed upon his own motion; did not know
that all went In; General Moorhead and another
went In before him; they followed the Secretary very
soon, perhaps minute after he went In; could not
say what had taken place before he went in; heard
some conversation; did not know what was then the
conversation; that he had detailed followed had his
pencil and envelope in his hand when he went in;
did not know where that envelope is now; it was
probably destroyed copied 1t of Immediately at the
Secretays table, could not say that was destroyed
had no knowledge OF 1t; the document he had been
reading from was not manuscript; IL was copy or
his testimony before the committee taken from the
Secretary,s ONCE, who copied them; did not know
that 1t was important to keep the original; did not
know the name of the clerk who took the copy;
preserved the notes until he testified before the
committee; could not say how long he preserved
them; could not say what has become OF the envel-
ope; had not searched for 1t; suggested, of his
notion after he had returned to the Secrearys room
that the notes should be written out; young man
was there, ready to do it; was not aware that any
than what he had testified to- could not say who left
that room first; left Secretary Stanton there and
went INTO tne ROOM PM c e0aG not say
copied or not; saw Stanton sitting there in his office
after he left the room; did not know what
took place between them afterwards; saw no
friendly greeting between Stanton and Thomas
while in General Schriver's room; the notes
he took on the envelope were questions and answers
of which the copy an exact transcript, though 1t
did not exhibit the whole conversation and one ex
preston occurred to him now that Thomas used and
that he did not get down. The notes covered all the
conversation Of any Importance; what he wrote was
verbatim question and answer; did not take 1t in
short hand. The conversation was very slow and
ton; Stanton did not ask Thomas If he wished him
to vacate Immediately or If he would give him time
Redirect examination by Mr.. BUTIER-The remark
referred to by him In his examination that
CURED to him now and that ne mad not written
out, from General Thomas to the effect that he
did not wish anything unpleasant" that was what
Thomas said.
emphasis on the word don't know its materially;
did he speak that word in the ordinary way9 A. He
spoke in the way have mentioned; he said he did
not want any ''unpleasantness." Witness said this
occurred in the first part Of the conversation before
General Thomas went to his room had taken part
OF the conversation before that; did not think it
Mr. BINGHAM-I suppose 1t is not for the witness to
swear ghat he thought about It. tho q,
the perfection of the witness memory, Is certainly
material to know why he omitted some parts and
Mr.. BINGHAM withdrew the objection.
TESTIMONY OF J. K. MoORuEAD.
James X. MOOrhead sworn on behalf OF the Man
ayers. Direct examination by Mr. Butler:-
Witness is q member Of the House Of Representa-
tives; was present at the War Department on tn,
morning OF Saturday, February %, understandings
that General Thomas to be there that morning
take possession OF the Department. went there from
Who he understood, had some conversation with
General Thomas the night before; Mr.. Van Horn had
correctly stated what took place; could corroborate
the statement.
Objection by Mr.. CURTIS.
Witness proceeded to say that when General
Thomas went over to General Schriver's room he
was followed by Mr. stanton and himself Mr.. stan.
ton then put question to General Thomas, and
asked witness to remember It, which induced him to
make. memorandum OF II, which he thought he still
had among his papers; 10 was made briefly and
roughly but so that he could understand it:-"Mr
Stanton-Genera Thomas, you claim to be here as
eral Thomas replied, do, SIR" After that had
passed witness walked to the door leading into the
hail. when he heard something that attracted his
attention and he returned; Mr. Stanton then
said, General Thomas requires the mails Of
General Thomas, 81 require the mails Of the depart.
business Of the ONCE" witness then asked General
Thomas II he had made use Of these words, and he
assented and added, "You may make 1t full you
please.n That was all the memorandum witness
made; he made 1t at the time and place.
Cross-examined by Mr.. STASBERR.Y-Witness had
not made memorandum Of the number OF persons
he found at Mr.. Stantons ONCE when he arrived
there, and could not remember all Of them; there
were number Of members OF Congress-; he had seen
Mr. Van Horn and Judge Kelley there's had been there
in; saw him through the windows, which were open
towards the White House, coming somebody having
announced the fact; he came alone.
=, Q, Was he armed in any wayS A. No, sir; not
witness here made an observation inaudible in the
reporters gallery, but which caused considerable
merrment on the floor.
Witness resumed:-when General Thomas came in
he said Good morning, Mr.. Secretary; good morn
ing, gentlemen;" thought Mr.. Stanton asked him II
he had any business with him; Stanton was some
times sitting, sometimes standing: did not know
which he was doing when he spoke; thought he did
not ask Thomas to take seat, and that witness did
not take one; Thomas then said he was there as
Secretary OF War I'D Interim appointed by the Presi
dent and came TO take possession; nothing was said
before that. and Stanton said, II am
Secretary OF War, you are Adjutant Gen.
era; l order you TO your ROOM" he replied
that he would not obey the order that he was Secre-
tary OF War, and then retired General Schrivers
room; Stanton followed, asking witness TO accom-.
pany him; did not know what he wanted him for;
supposed ne was going to have further conversational
Van Horn Also followed; thought there was something
unmportant In the conversation before what he had
detailed could not remember It; 1t was joking or
something OF that kind to no purpose; they did not
seem TO be In any passon-nOt hostle did not recOl-
lect any OF the Jokes that passed; left the room
shortly after the remark that Mr.. Stanton
asked him to remember; had got back INTO