The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1868-05-02
The Debate.

LONDON, May 1-P. NJ
The House of Commons went into Committee
tthc Whole immediately after assembling last night
the first Of the Gladstone resolves on the Irish
Curch establishment. During the debate Mr.. Wal
Pc in the course OF his remarks in opposition to
MI Gladstone's resolves, said these attacks on
cldgy such as that of the Irish Church, who were
notd for the purity of their doctrine and for their
eleated learning and Christian zeal, were sure to
eadtO the most disastrous results.
LGd Elcho followed. lie said that the introduce
Ton Il these resolves at the present time was unne
tessay and unfortunate. The Roman Catholics Of
Iflald would never be satisfied with anything short
supremacy In ecclesiastical matters. He regard
81 the issue presented TO the House an imperial
0e, for the Church establishments of England and
o Scotland were menaced as well as that OF Ireland
4snce blows were struck at the whole system Of the
uiOn OF Church and State in the United Kingdom.
After the conclusion of Lord ElchO's argument,
All at rather late hour, in the presence of full
1Buse, there being an unusual attendance OF men,
bCs of both parties In expectation OF division, MIR.
Gladstone rose and was loudly cheered.
, The leader of the opposition commenced by saying
tht he could not complain Of the result OF this
1Og debate, as eleven nights OF discussion had
fuk demonstrated that the Irish Church es-
Enlistment never did and never could fulfil the
en- OF its creation. 1t was not the Church of the
naon il not the Church OF the poor, nor was 1t
Missionary Church. 1t existed there only for the
purpose Of sustaining political supremacy on form
mot hateful to the people upon which 1t
wa imposed. This was uncomfortable. No minis
ter dared TO say that 1t Should continue
to exist. Now the time to apply the remedy. The
ministers had raised the Cabinet question and had
broched policy in regard to it, upon which they
subsequently failed to agree. lie would say nothing
nf Tho
ireland; for more and better information was needed
On anueston involving interests so extensive The
dutyof Parliament now was to accept justice to Ire
land
MIR Gadsi ne subsequently, abiding to the per-
soma attacks which had been made upon him, de-
MED the most explicit manner that he had any
connection with interest in the policy or plans of
eithe the Rituasts on the one hand or the Roman
Catholics on the other Discussing the arguments
made against his propositions he said two lead
ing objections had been presented 10 his plan for
the dBestablslment Of the Irish Church. One was
that IL imperiled the existence OF the Established
Churh Of England the other objection was that the
time was inopportune. Ten years ago, said Mr..
Gladstone, the people OF Great Britain were indif-
fercnt, and The introduction of great reform would
have been untimcy. Now the people are
aroused, and the opportunity presented itself
for a, carly and sound settlement OF the
question. The strength OF the Church OF
Englani Law in Its own merits and in the voluntary
zeal of Ter voares far more than in her connection
with tie state. He expressed the belief that the
Chmchof England would lose none Of her strength,
even fparted from the State. She had more - EAR
from her partsans than from her foes, and the re-
form of the Irish Established Church would
strengthen the Church Of England.
Mr. Gladstone resumed his seat amidst loud cheers,
and
Mr. Msraeli immediately rose In the ministerial
benches to reply and close the debate The Premier,
in m,ment of the most attentive interest, COM
menceda bitter speech, calling the scheme for the
disendovment OF the Irish church one Of con-
nscaton and violence, and likely to end
In its abolition in that country, plan and result to
which the people OF England would never consent.
Mr. Dsfaeli continued in this strain and line
Of argument to the termination of his ad.
DRESS He deplored the act OF injustice
contemplated by these resolves. II was an
act which involved wide conscation OF property and
menaced the rights OF every corporation and OF every
person In the United Kingdom. IL inevitably must
prcdispose the public mind for similar attack
,pon the Church OF England, and 1t undoubt-
edly was intended to have such influence.
But in spite of the virulence Of the press and the
pressure brought bear by the advocates OF change
| he firmly believed the English people would never
sanction the sacrifice OF sacred things TO party neces
sties leading as was sure to lead, to results only
10 be described as revolutionary.
The Division.
At half.past two O'Clock this morning the House
divided on the first of Mr.. Gladstones resolutions,
which reads thus:-"That in the opinion OF this
House. tits necessary that the Established Church o.
IRELAND should cease to exist as an establishment
dine regard being had to all personal interests and L
NIL individual rights of property
The teleis announced the results thus -
Against the resolve %
majority against Disraeli.. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS. 8
The announcement ofthe result was received will
ioud and prolonged cheering from the liberia
benches Tnis Is an increased majority OF seven owe
the maiort, Nv when the government was beatei
before the Easter vacation.