Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1868-04-02


In fantry had been detached and sent 20 south
Carroll na upon the REQ uisit on OF the comman-
der Of that Department. ami that two compa-
mics OF artillery had ben returned % thsir
c mmsnds, and that, although the number Of
companies Of infantry had been increased,
the numerical streffTfh Of the Dspsft-
Of the reduction of the army 20 the peace
tcoiing. The President thea said. DO not
refer 10 these thfngs. Y replied thai ~ he
would state Whist changes he 7ferred %
could be more explicit !. lie said he rel rred %
rsehs change; and replied thai eOald as
sure MIN thai no very recenf changes had been
u lade, Tor that by the law Of Congress all or
ders had 70 BE- trans ma It'd through Gen Jsraat
u me army. and in hike manner sal orders
froH General Grant 70 officers IA my depart
ln.hs AZ u. SSine through m, and could not
conceive that orders would ba issued 20 my
subordinates except through me The PreSf-
deut sskrd me "a hat order and act OF CJngre<s
i leltrIee 20 and r'plled, 90 Order No. a., q
the series OF leos. he replied that he wonld
like 10 see That order and he desnaf Mod :,
messenger FOR Il A. this rolnt q gentleman cane
in To see the Presidenf and NJ \ > a. ',e,
suppose that his business concerned ,n. n :
Wi'hdpew o. enc ena % the WON The mes
senger returned with the order and handed n
TO me, and after The gentleman rtferre, 10 hNd
retired. l returned TO whore TIE President vTss
and said l would he obliged 10 him 10 n ugould
give attention TO the order. told hmm the order
was found IN an approprauon ball that had
passed Congress last spring He rad the
order and said IL was not in con forlnity with
the Constitution OF the United States, which
makes him Commander an Chief. OF with The
language OF your commission
witness here spoke la 30 low a tone thai
several Senators asked him 20 repeat his las
remarks, " hich he did.
uness resuminC, said IL n piled that 10
the tider which you haNe al,proVed ana sent
TO the army for our guidance, or sometAing to
that effect as 1 cannot recoilect the exact Ian
. gusge. The President then said $50 Am 20
understand that tbs Pn.siden Of the United
States can no, give an order 10 tie army except
through the General OF the Army or through
7 Ia G...1 n -.
Impression, and thai that was the impr.xsion
/ OF the officers Of the army generally I said
further thai when the order was issued some.
} discussion ensued relative TO its construction
( End The duty Of Off GERS under IL; and several
lawyers were consulted about IL. and gave il
as their opinion that we Were bound by the
orders, whether they Were constitutional or
Q. Did you state hitherto who those lawyers
werei A. Yes, SIR.
z. Who did you state they werei A. MY
former statement with regard TO the matter was
not altogether correct. Il inadvertently stated
that had consulted lawyers. 1 only con-
suited Hon. Robert J. Walker, and other indi-
yiduais had consulted with Hon. Reverdy
johnson and other lawyers. told the Presi-
cent that the lawyer L consulted said we were
bornd by the order, and that other oficers W ho
had consulted Mr.. Reverdy johnson said thai
he was Of the same opinion; and that the con-
Nersatlon ended by my thanking the President
for his courtesy i'm allow ing me TO express my
Owl opinion so freely, and then withdrew.
Odd you see General Thomas that
mornlngl Al did not The order re-
ierred TO was here exhibited 70 witness.
who said the one exhibited was not an
exact copy Of the one be had in his ONCE. N
is only part of the order. The one in my once
contains also the appropriation bill. Sofar as
~ concerns TINS inquiry, however, the order is
the one have referred 10. This order is Of
fetal.
Q.-This II order No. IS. You referred to
order No. ~ Witness explained that 1t was
the same order. Order No II contai ned all of
the appropriation bill, and this order only a
section of that bill
Mr.. Butler proposed TO put the order in evil
depce.
Counsel for the Presiden Mt examined the paper
and made no objection.
The order was then read. Ii makes the
headquarters of the General of the army per-
manent In Washington, and he cannot be re-
leyed except by his own consent. And 10 pro-
yides that all orders Of the President 10 the
army, shall be transmitted through General
q rant.
q. You are still in command of the Depart
ment of the Cum berland. A. Yes. sir.
CrOss-eNaInined by Mr.. Stanbery.-The or
der read by the President at the interview re-
ierred TO was IS or IL, witness does not recol-
lect " hich. The only difference is that in or
der No IL, the whole appropriation bill is set
out ana IN the other nothing but the order 10
the army Is given. The copy on file in my Of
flee contains the appropriation bill, and IL No.
L.. That read by the President the same
as what was first read TO the Court When the
order was sent TO the officers of the army there
vas a discussion among them as 10 It's real
purport.
Q-This document, then, simply gave the
order, and gave nothing m reference 20 the con-
struouOn TO be put upon M A.-Ies, sir.
Witness was then asked what the discussion
among the army officers particularly
about. he replied as TO what their duties were
under the order.
Q. You received no instructions then from
the War Office relative TO the construction of
the order 2 A. No. sir.
u. Ii was then left 10 your own con stru ctiop.
and having doubts about il you consulted law
yers Witness replied that he had no doubts
about the construction, but he had consulted a
lawyer in order to settle the doubts of others
Q: Then you applied TO Mr.. Robt ]. Walker.
Odd Mr.. Walker tell YOU that Won were
bound by the order, whether IL was constitu-
tional or unconstitutional A.-The question
OF the oonstituuonalty Of the order did not
then come up. Witness understood the mean
ing 10 be that the order was 10 be obeyed, and
that officers would BE- bound by il until n was
declared unconstitutional by the courts.
The order and act are the same thing, and as
Ear as We are concerned are the same thing.
The act was approved; consider the order and
the act the same.
Mr.. Manager Wilson said they now Offered a
copy OF Gen. Emory's commission as Major
General by breyet. which he then read. II is
dated July IL, 1866. Also, the order assigning
partment OF Washington. Also, the order
under which Gen. Thomas resumed his duties
as Adlutant General of the army of the United
States. Also. the original letter of Gen. Grant
OF Jan. "a, Is6e. requesting the President TO put
In writing the verbal order which he
had given him the day previous to dis
regard the orders of Edwin NJ. Stanton as
SECRETARY of War until he knew they were
me Presidents orders. On this letter is in
dorsed by the President as folloYs:-.s(ieneral
Grant is instructed not obey any orders
issued from the War Department purporting TO
be issued by the President, unless the General
commanding knows that they are issued by the
direction Of the President
! AT the request Of Senator Cameron. the two
last documents Were read by the Secretary
Mr.. Wilson would further submit letter
written by the President of the United States
10 General Grant on February ia, 1862 Itwas
the original letter, and he would send il 10 the
counsel, that they might examine il.
Mr.. Stanbery examined the letter and said
tins was letter which purported TO be a part
OF the corresp ondence between Gen. Grant
and the President He would AJAX the Mana
gers II they proposed to submit the rest OF this
correspondence.
Mr.. Wilson replied that thev did not propose
to submit any more of the correspondence
Mr.. Stanbery asked what was the object of
producing this letter
Mr.. Wilson said they presented il TO prove
that the President intended to prevent the re-
turn of the Secretary of War, notwithst andlng
the action Of the Senate.
House OF REPREsENTATIvEs.-The House
assembled al 10 o'clock.
A number of members asked and obtained
leave Of absence.
Mr.. Washburne (Ill) asked unanimous con-
sent that IL shall he undqrsfood hat