The New York herald., 1868-05-20

ufStIHrre. fNlptES am IdurILer.) Witl reg lru 10
the E0ins b orc us can only say that eatrc.y op
pose tAc o Of the right honorable genl.e nan the
member q. nth Lancashlre. loud caeers.) lam
land. tCheers.) What has recently occurred has
amounted to what have always contemplated
would take place, and what viii be repeated There
has been quarrel for the plunder among the honor
ab e gentlemen opposite-Qoud cheers and laugh
terl-and do not think that 1t was my duty 70 give
an opinion upon such subject (Cheers.) With re
gard to the particular motion before the committee,
that of the honorable member for Kirkcady, had
the Important principles which IL in soHie degree
involves been placed simply and plainly before us
should not have shrunk from discussing them,
tso or from mn, giving my opinion upon them but
with details OF an mpracticable character which, il
we had agreed to, would have disturbed arrange
which the public had long recognized as conducting
to the convenience OF the country. Therefore was
obs ryaons Of the honorable S member for the Tower
Hamlets that am still OF opinion that the manner
In which attempt to perform my duties as leader OF
RAJ OccaSi0ds ne has offered TO the admiration OrdiS
assembly. Cheers and laughter.)
honorable member for the Tower Hamets, who is
perfectly capable OF holding his own neither am
about to discuss at large the conduct Of her Maesys
government tonight. But II do not proceed to dis
cuss that conduct at the present moment, it s be-
cause do not think that it is desirable to mix up that
cently diffcult and intricate must say, however,
that dot think that the right honorable gentleman
has been successful in the explanation he has given.
(Chccrs.) The right honorable gentleman says that
the motion of the honorable member for Kirkcady
would, II carried, have disturbed, in q remarkable
In consequence Of the mode in which it was drawn
up and Notwithstanding this assertion the Minister
did not choose to record his vote against it. Cheers
With the whole Of his colleagues he left the House,
seeking refuge In that small apartment which is ap
propriated to him. Cheers ana laughter.) His alb
sence has reminded me OF one OF his many witty
sayings. At the time when my noble friend Earl
Russell was paymaster general the accommo atlon
Of MS 9ce was very Limited and the right
ter( Upon this occasion zoe hare had
Of shutting up not one, but maanv great mem
CHEERS and laughter-dnd under circumstances
sontcn q nay Perhaps De proper at some future
member for Devices, must inform him that am
not responsible for the resolution which is about
one have already mentioned-in acceding 10 it. but
has now arrived when it would be satisfactory to
this question were stated with the same precision
With Which tae ma OF sub ecs have been stated, and
by applying to the minor subjects the very words
which we have used with regard to major ones =.
Mr.. WHIrBREAD wished to know whether the
amendment proposed by the last speaker not out
of order as being substantially the same as one
which had been already disposed of.
The CHAIRMAN Sal that there was an obvious diff
ference between the two amendments seeing tnat
one proposed to prohibit the application OF any part
Of the funds Of the Anglican Church to the Roman
prohibit their application to any institutions of other
religious denominations
subject Of this Importance should be brought before
the House In this way. | think the honorable men,
ber opposite and myself hold very much the same
opinions upon this subject but object to the word
constitutions" as contained In his amendment as
being very wide one. don't know what 1t
includes or what 1t excludes according to the inter-
pretation OF The honorable member, but think it is
sufficiently wide to include schools. l objected to
the motion of the honorable member for khkcaldy
WI unnn thofi
any sum Of money obtained by the Iisendowment of
the Anglican Church In Ireland, or any portion
% 10 an %oon
founded the fact that in Ireland it was utterly
impossible to have schools which were not denomina
tional. The same thing is proposed to be done by
by the present amendment, and therefore cannot
vote for it, II any honorable member is desirous OF
proposing any resolution or amendment upon this
subject he should take care that his motion should
be cOuched In terms which are not liable to be mis-
understood and will include Just what he intends to
be included and will exclude just what he intends
shall be excluded. When amendments are brought
forward In this hasty way 1t s absolutely impossible
for the committee to discuss them with satisfaction
III the right honorable gentleman opposite had exer-
cised his influence on his side OF the House as the
done on this side we should have settled this dicult
matter long ago. and the resolutions would before
this have been reported to the House. hope the
honorable gentleman will see no difficulty in with.
drawing his amendment.
Mr.. GLADsToNE-I am persuaded the honorable
member will be anxious to give every opportunity
for considering the propoeition he has made, ne
Will not expect to bind ourselves to the very terms
which he regards as vital and fundamental cOndi-
ton of the greatest national establishment rather
disestabishment-(hear)- proposed, without our
seeing the words or knowing what they are, and
being compelled to ask them over and over again
from the Chairman. therefore distinctly claim from
the honorable gentleman that the words he prOposea
shall be placed before us In print and that we may
have the opportunity OF fully considering them That
is claim which, think, every equitable man must
allow.
Sir s. NoRTHCOTE-A very important expression has
Just fallen from the right honorable gentleman He
saio ns quesuon toucnea great national establish
ment, but he corrected himself and said disestablish
ment.
Mr.. GLADsroNE--I did no such thing (Oh, ohD
had to encounter Interruptions and to avoid opposi-
tion I said .'dsestablishmentr ION, ohD
Sir ). NoRTncorE-The right honorable gentleman
certainly used the word ''dsest iblshment.r Hear
hear.) think 1t can hardly be wondered that now
we have arrived at this p0int and honorable gentle
men begin to see what is the practical bearing Of
these resolutions, they should ask some questions
and endeavor to arrive at clear understanding as
to what they have really done. tHear, hear IL may
the resolutions that may grow out OF those that have
been already passed. but no reproach attaches to
those honorable gentlemen who on the first occasion
done, have put forward some questions which they
think ought to be answered.
rose to reply to me, but take the liberty Of saying
that he has made no reply threw no reproach ON
he raj & gentleman en- asked for time md the
honorable gentleman cannot decline it. I ought to
recollect that the right honorable gentemans mind
distinct ntimaton he had within him, and which he
intended to propose In committee He said he
would oppose The first resolution II that was carried
ne would oppose the second resolution, and after
the second he would oppose the third RESOLUTION
!hear, hearl-but the political exigencies came upon
him which made the redemption OF those pledges in
convenientM!hear, hearl--and we need not be sur.
prised little OF his pent up matter has irreguarly
spent ITSELF e. Heart and laugh.)
An honorable member on the opposition side re-
marked that on his election he was questioned re-
upon 10.
The question having been again put from the chair,
ana Mr. Holden having been asked how he voted,
replied 81 vote with the ayesn (Chcers.)
The tellers then announced the nulnbers:--
For the amendment. .................... 97
Majority against the amendment. ......... %
Mr.. Whitbreads resolution, as amended, was then
put and agreed to as foows:-
That when legislative shall be Owen 10 the first resou-