The New York herald., 1868-04-05

tvsse.l ~ w you mean Irom WHOSE luanuai PoSses'
Nr. BUTLER-I mean who signed the letter.
Hf. GURTIs-That we object TO.
MI, bUTLER-l do not do it for the purpose oil
pose Of Identification.
Mr.. EvA.rs-We say that the paper itself win show
Mr. BUrLER-The difficulty with me is that unless
take an noIr & IN my argument these gentlemen are
proposition. Ny proposition is not to prove the
authority not to prove the signature but to prove
sme iaenusy OF tne paper It Is not to prove that It
IT, but it Is TO prove whether am to look for my ev
dence In given direction or in another direction
The CHIEF JUSTICE decided that the question in
the form in which it was put was not objectionable
and that the question whether these documents were
signed Dy tne PRESIDENT would be also competent
MT. bUTLER-State whether any OF the letters OF
authority which you have mentioned came from the
Secretary G OF State, or from what other otiicer.
MI. CURTIS-l understand that the witness s not to
answer by whom they were sent.
Mr. BUTLER ttartly)-I believe have the witness
Tne CHlEF !uSTICE-The Chief Justice Will instruct
the witness not 70 answer at present by whom they
Witness-They came from the President.
Mr. BuILER.All ~ OF thems A. Such Is the usual
@. Do you not know OF any letter or authority to a
CHIEF clerk TO act as Secretary Of State that did not
come from the PresidentS A. do not.
z WIN you on your return to the ONCE examine
and see G II there Is anythings A: will.
MT: STANBERY-I see by the list only one instance
OF the removal by the President of the head OF q
departmet during the session OF the Senate and that
was an early One-May 13, 1900. Q. DO you know
ahy.ning any oi the circumstances OF that removals A.
9. You do not not know whether that onicer had
refused 10 resign when requestedp A. do not
. Y. IN you own knowledge since you have been In
the department, do you know Of any instance in
which M i, the head Of department, when requested by
tne PRESIDENT 10 resign, has refused to resign2
object
The objection was either sustained or the question
Mr.. STANBERY-Have you ever examined the re-
cords TO ascertain under what circumstances 1t
that Mr.. Adams removed Mr.. Pickering from the
head OF the State Department in 1900 when the SEN
ate was In session. A. have not
Mr.. BUTLER-Do you know that he was removed
ledger A. do not.
Mr.. BUTLER-I now offer, sir, from the ninth VOL
nme OF the Works OF John Adams (the Little h
Brown edition. by his grandson, Charles Francis
Adams, what purports to be official letters from
Timothy Pickering, Secretary Of State, to John Ad-
ans, ana fron Adams to HILL Any objection Ito
Mr.. Stanbery)p
Mr.. STANBERY-Not the least.
Mr.. BUTLER-The first one is dated the 10th Of
May, 1900 (pages 3d. 54 55. offer them the best
evidence OF the official letters of that time have
not been able to ind any record Of them thus far.
ANY objection, gentemenY
Mr.. STANBERY-NOt at all, sir.
MIR. BUTLER read letter from President Adams to
Timothy Pickering, Secretary OF State dated May 10,
1900, which, he said was Saturday, announcing that
the administration deemed change in the ONCE of
secretary OF State necessary and stating that the
announcement was made in order to give Pickering
an opportunity to resign. He next read the reply
Mr.. Pickering, dated Department of State May u,
$780," stating that he had contemplated n cOntinu.
ance in oice until the 4th of March following after
the election OF Mr.. Jefferson which was con-
sldered certain and refusing, from various
read the letter of President Adams, Of the
same date, removing Mr. Pickering from
the goodness to send for the executive journal of
May ~ 1900, to be brought hereS propose 10 show
that at the same hour on the same day Mr.. Adams,
the President, sent the nomination to the Senate
MI. STANBERY-DO | understand the houOrab ble
Manager to say at the same hours Do you expect to
prove it2
Mr. BUTLER-when I come to look ut the corre
spOndence think am wrong. l think the action
OF the Senate was a little previous. Q.aughter.)
Mr. STANBEEY-YOu doI
Mr. BUTLER-Yes, sir.
On motion OF Senator SHERMAN it was ordered that
the Journal In question be furnished
MR.. CREECY RECALLED.
Mr Z. Eaton Creecy was recalled and examined
by Mr.. BUTLER:--
Q. You have been seven, l believer A. Yes, sir.
(Paper shown to wltncss.) You told us that you
were appointment clerk In the Treasury Office. You
are familiar with the handwriting OF Andrew John
q. Ii that his handwritingY A. It's
@, Did you produce this letter from the archives
OF the Treasury to-days a. did.
Mr.. BUTLER-Just step down moment Mr. presi.
dent and Senators, 1t viii be remembered that the
answer ~ the President to the first article says in
these w0fds:-"And IL has ever since remained and
Is now the opinion OF this respondent at the time
when he was forced as aforesaid, To consider and
decide what act or acts should or might carefully
done by this respondent as President of the United
States, to cause the said Stanton to sur
render the said Offices" this respondent was
ONCE acp was understood and intended
TO be an expression OF the opinion OF the Congress
by which tha act was passed; that the power TO re-
move executive 0ffcers Tor cause might by law be
taken from the President and vested him and the
Senate Jointly. MIR. Butler read further from the
articles. The President claims that he had removed
Stanton under the constitution. lie then read the
second section OF the Tenure OF Oice act empower
ing the President during the recess Of the Senate to
civ nnIfts Ipifn Sfnfn fI.Aa
for iDcapacty and misconduct, and authorizing him
TO designate temporary successor to hold
until acted upon by the Senate, and re-
quirng him to report such action within
twenty days from the next meeting of the
Senate with reasons therefor. He also read the
eighth section, requiring the President to notify the
Secretary Of the Treasury of such temporary appoint
ments made without the consent Of the senate lie
cOntinued:-lt will be seen, therefore Mir. Presi-
dent that the President Of the United states saws in
his answer that he suspended Mr.. Stanton under the
constitution, suspended him indefinitely and at his
pleasure. We propose now unless IL Is objected TO,
to show that II Is false under his own hand, and |
offer his letter to that effect which, If there Is OBJ
lection, will read.
Mr.. srAxBERY (after examining the letter)-we
see no Inconsistency In that, nor falsehood
Mr.. BuTLER-That Is not the question put to you
/ asked you II you had any objection2
Mr.. STANBERY-I have no objection.
Mr.. BuTLEI-The falsehood Is not In the letter; II
IL In the answer. lie then read the letter. dated
Washington, August H. 1867 as follows:-
sIR-In compliance with the requirements Of the eighth
Of the act OF Congress OF March 2 1867 An
TO regulate OF civil Oilccs"
hereby notified that on the 18th Inst the Hon. Edwin NJ
ton suspended from his oce Secretary OF War;
General Ulysses Grant authorized empowered ~ act
Secretary Of War al intr am sir very respectfully
yours, ANDREW JOHNSON.
To Hon. UGH McCULLoCH, Secret sry of the Treasury
Mr.. BCTLER-l wish to call attention to this again,
because II may have escaped the attention OF
Senators.
Mr.. CUHTIs-We object. We wish 10 know what
all this discussion means. What question Is now
before the Senate How Is II that this statement Is
nader
Mr. BrrIER-1 am endeavoring TO show that when
the President said that he did not suspend MIR. stan
ton vDder the Tenure OF ONCE ac., and that he had
to The conclusion that he had the right To slls
pend him before August ~, 1887, without leave OF
the Tenure OF ONCE act he sent u letter saying that
he did II under that act TO the Secretary Of the
Treasury, under the sth section OF the act TO which
he refers. lie expressly says that letter that he
did suspend him under this act.
Mr. CURTIs-We do not object TO the honorable
Manager Offering his evidence we do object to his
argument
Mr. BurLER-I am arguing nothing, sir. read the
law.
The journal asked for by Mr.. Butler arrived AT this
al