The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1868-04-17
IMPE ACH NJ b n I.
CONTINUED FROM THIRD PAGE.

me President any directions suggestions as to the
course TO be taken by yon as connsei IN that case
Mr.. BUTLER TO Mr.. Curtis)-Do you ask now for
Mr. CURrIs-I ask for directions to this gentleman.
do not care how far they go.
Mr. BUTLER think, sir these conversations can.
not be put H. THIS Is not the employing and send
directiQpsas TO how General Thomas counsel are to
Mr.. cuRTls-I suppose it depends upon what was
said. They might amount to verbal acts as they are
called In the books II these gentlemen so received
and actedppon them suppose they then passed out
OF the fange OF declarations The question is whether
he received directions and suggestions from the
President the Attorney General.
Mr.. BUTLER-The difficulty Is this 1t is not the
mere question of the difference between acts and
gree further on My proposition is thai the Pre a
dents acts IN giving directions to General Thomas
counsel to defend General Thomas that being
employed by the President, cannot be evidence,
whether acts or declarations.
Mr. EyARTs-It does not follow that these instruc-
lions were TO defend General Thomas. The first IN
qury 10 that the instructions to make nvesti.
gations that this proceeding being such could be
taken on behalf OF the President you anticipate
what the answer may be. An offer TO snow that the
Attorney General in the presence OF the President,
soon as the report of the situation OF this case OF
General Thomas was made, gave certain instructions
TO this gentleman Of the profession in reference 10
grating upon that case the act Of having habeas
corpus.
Mr. BTTLEH,I do not propose to argue It; the
statement OF IL Is enough the President has no
right to direct General Thomas lawyer, then, TO
direct me- and theieupon they do not offer the
deciaratons OF the Presidents lawyer, Attorney
General Stanoery, now his counsel TO put into the
case There is no TACT IN either that can do them any
The oner of evidence was reduced to writing, as
folIows:-"We oner TO prove that at the hour OF
twelve O'Clock noon on tie I'D OF February, on the
first communication with the President to the
situation OF General Thomas case, the President or
the Attorney General IN his presence, gave the wit.
ness certain directions as to obtaining a writ OF
ha0eas corpus Tor the purpose OF testing ,udicaliy
the right OF M Stanton 10 continue TO hold the ONCE
OF Secretary OF War against The authority OF the
President"
The CHIEF JUSTICE decided that the proof was ad.
missIbie within the rule adopted by the Senate,
out IS, sad s tnas ne wonia put the question
No vote beng called for the examination was re.
sumed.
Nj. CURTIs-The question is whether the Presi.
dent or the Attorney General in his presence gave
you any instructions IN reference to the proceedings
70 obtain writ Of naoeas corpus to test the night OF
contrary 10 the Will of the President.
Wtness-The Attorney General, on learning from
me the situation OF the case, asked II poss BILE
IN any way to get it into the Supreme Court immedi
ately; told him was not prepared to answer that
question; he then SAID LOOK at 1t and see whether
or not you Can take 1t up to the Supreme Court
mediateiy on haoeas corpus and have decision OF
that tribunal" and told him would.
z. Subsequent to that time did you come into com.
municaton with any gentleman acting as counsel
for the President IN relation to that inatter2 A. l
examined the question as requested by the Attorney
General and on the evening or afternoon OF the
seen him, wrote aim note
Mr.. BUTLER-We object TO the contents OF the note
N giving evidence.
Mr.. CURTIS to the Misunderstanding the RESULT
Misunderstanding the result OF that exaninatiOn2
Mr.. BUriER-WhaleVer is in the note you must not
Mr.. CURTIS ito the witness)-You wrote him note
on that subject2
Witness-I wrote him note on that subject the fol.
lowing Monday or Tuesday being saturday. met
MI Cox, who was the counsel OF The President, as an.
derStood, and in consultation with him | commune.
Gated to him the conclusion had arrived at the
course OF my examination the saturday previous
and we having come to the same conclusion, agreed
70 conduct the case together in harmony with
TO accomplishing the contemplated result OF taking
II ~ IN M hu "A uritn lab.
Y, state now anything which you and Mr. Cox did
1or the purpose Of accomplishing that resuitP A.
court, on which, according to the bond, General
IaomaS was TO appear before Judge Cartier in cham
Ders. That was, THINK, on Wednesday, the 10th, If
am not mistaken. Can state what transplred?
Mr.. CURTIs-Yes, so tar as your acts.
Mr.. BgTLER-I respectfully submit once again Mr..
President that the acts OF General Thomas counsel
nnder the direction OF the Attorney General after the
President was lmpeached cannot be put IN evidence
Witness-Wnl you allow me TO make a correctlonl
Mr.. CURTIs-Certany.
Wttness-fou asked when next ] came IN contact
with anyone representing the President. I should
have stated that on Tuesday night, by appointment.
had an interview with the President on the subject
OF THIS case and OF the proceedings TO be taken on the
following day.
ton which request may be reduced to writing before
argue 1t, because have argued one ques.
tons to-day and then found other questions put in
their place
The CHEF JUsrIcE-C Counsel will please reduce the
question to writing.
The question: beng reduced to writing, was read
as folows:-"What, If anything, did you and Mr.. Cox
do in relation to accomplishing the result you have
spoken olf'
MI. BUTLER-Does that include what was done in
sourtP
Mr.. CuRrIs-It includes what done before
Chief Justice Carttet
The CHIEF JusrIcE-The Chief Justice thinks 1t
competent, but he VIII put 1t to the Senate II any
Senator desires It.
No vote having been called for the question was
allowed 10 be put TO the witness.
witness-To answer that question it is necessary
should state what transpred before the Judge in
Chambers and IN court on Wednesday, wien all we
did was done to ACCOMPLISH that purpose. We
Into the room IN the Cy Hall In which the Criminal
Cartier was men hoding the term OF the Criminal
Court and the Criminal Court was regularly ad-
Sas discharged the Chief Justice announced that
ne was ready TO hear the case OF Gene.
;al Thomas sr the question was then suggested TED
court The Chief Justice said he would hear 1t IN
chambers, the criminal Court now having been adj
1ourned. The case was therefore called up. The
counsel appearing for Mr.. stanton, for the govern
lnent tMessrs Carpenter and Rddell moved That the
day on the grounds of the absence Of OF
she witnesses, tnink, and on the additional plea or
Mr. Carpenters mdlsposltion. To that motion, after
econsultatlon with my associates, Mr.. Cox and Mr..
Joseph II. Bradley, who appeared az advisory couD.
Sci for General Thomas, ! and objected to a
postponemenL stating that was constrained TO
oolect, Notwithstanding the plea OF personal indis
position TO which always yielded. and that oh.
}ected now for the reason that this nvolv
ing question OF great public interest aud which the
hArmoui0us acton Of the government rendered ne
eess.hy 70 oe specify determined. elaborated that
view, anu Mr. Carpenter replied, representing that |
Shcre COuIu Oe no uelrilient 10 The pubic
and he expressly urged the court lor postpone |
nent. The Chief Justice thcreupon remarked |
THINK that II was the hrst time he knew a case in
which tile plea OF personal ndispOsiuOn OF counsel
was not acCeded TO 10y the other SIDE. that II was
generally sufficient, aud he went On to remark
on the motion farther inasmuch that | concluded
shat he would continue the case untl the following
DAY. As soon as saw that he would continue the
we brought forward "A motion that " be then
adjourned from the Chlef Justice at Chambers to the
Chief Justice holding The Criminal Court. That mo-
ton argued by counsel and ourselves by the
Judge at Chambers, not IN court. We then submit
BED to the Judge
Mr. BCTLER unterposingl-Mr. President, wish
simply to be understood SO that may clear my skirts
et the matter that TINS all comes IN under obec
tiOns ana under the ruling OF the presiding oiiCer.
The CHIEF JUSTICE twith severe dignity IN his
tonel-lt comes In under tue direction of the senate