The New York herald., 1868-04-12

] The presiding oficer asks the counsel question
| which he does not seem TO want to @.syeE The
question put to him was, Do you asS for The Presi
dents decaraons."
The CHIEF JUsrICE-The counsel for the President
are asked whether they ask for tie statements made
by the President.
Mr.. srANsERY-we expect to prove in what man.
ner the Department OF the Atlantic was created VINO
prescribed its boundaries what the purpose for
which 1t was created.
The CHIEF JUsTICE-Was subsequent to the time
Mr.. srANsERY-I do not know whether it was sub
be @neou by direction of the
| CNef Justice.
| Mr.. BUTLER-That department can only De created
Dy an order.
The CHIEF JUsTIcE-Do you object.
| Mr. BuTLER-I object to It in every aspect; but
first object to any declarations by the President.
| The CHIEF JUSTICE put the question on the adnis-
sion OF the question, and Il was excluded:
| questiOn:-Did the President make any application
to- yol respecting your acceptance OF the office or
Secretary OF War al interim +? Did he make pro-
| position to your Did he make an offer to your
| Mr.. BUTLER-Is that question in writingp
IN, Mr SaANBEEYEfes :. f & sronandng the paper to
Mr.. BUTLER (after cOnsutaton)-I am instructed,
Mr. President, to object to this because directly an
application can be made either in writing or In con-
versatOn and then there would be the written oral
declaration of the President and it is immateral to
Mr.. EvARTs-Mr. Chief Justice, the ground of the
understanding upon which the evidence in the form
overrued-sought to introduce It was overruIed be-
cause put in evidence declarations Of the President
several statements OF what he was to do or what he
had done. We offer this present evidence as execu-
tive action OF the President at the time and in the
direct power OF a proposed investment with office of
Mr.. BUTLER-To that we simply say that that is
not the way to prove executive action to anything
| cations made in closet cannot be put in whether
| upon declaration or otherwise.
Mr.. SrANBERY-Of course, Mr.. Chief Justice and
Senators, II we were about to prove the actual APP
p0ntment OF General Sherman to be Secretary OF
War ad interim we must produce the paper, the
a hnf q n Uh a UnQ
about to show now. The offer was not accepted.
What we offer is not a declaration but an act which
uncOnnected, il you please, with any declaration Of
any intention. Let the act speak for itself
| Mr.. BUTLER-Very well, put in the letter.
| Mr.. STANBERY-Is it question under the statute
| of frauds that you must have II In writing, that
sa Wha we pe r ao IN ow < What we Saye
not discussed as yet; it is an act thing proposed,
an office rendered to party General i Sherman M
interim ?' Is not that an actS Is that decara-
ton merely OF intentG Is 1t not the offer OF the
oifcep We claim it Is. 1t is not a declaration at
ALL 1t is not declaring anything about what his in
tention is but i IS doing an act "Wi you take the
Office? offer it.n Let that act speak for ITSELF
Mr. BUTLER-Mr. President, do not claim any
right to close the discussion but just call the aten-
tion Of the Senate to hs:-Suppose he did offer it,
what does that proven II you mean to deal fairly
with the Senate and not get in conversation under
the guse of putting in an act, what does it prove f
| he was trying to get General Sherman to take that
olices 1t was an attempt to get Stanton out If 1t
while 1t Is not within the statute of frauds, 1t is
attempt under the guise q an act to get In con-
by direction OF the Chief Justice the clerk read the
question, which had been reduced to writing, as fol-
| lOTs:-
"Did the President make any application to you
| OF War dd interim ?"
| The CHIEF JUSTICE submitted the point to the
| Senate, and the question was admitted.
| Mr. STANBERY ito witness)-Answer the question,
| If you please. A. The President rendered me the
nfi M of nd jDff1 n
sions; the first was on the afternoon OF January the
18th and the second on Thursday the 3oth OF January
O. Whereab0utsp A. In his own usual Office be-
tween the library and the clerks room in the Execu-
| tive mansion.
ton was then in office, as now.
q. Any one else present then9 A. think not. Mr..
but think he was not present when the President
| made me the tender. Both OF them were in writing
| 1 answered the first one on the 27th OF January.
O. Did you receive any communication in writing
from the President that subjectY A. did not
Q. What was the date OF your first letter. A. The
[Another question was answered here inauby to
O. Now, referring to the time when the offer was
| first made to you by the President did anything
further take place between you in reference to that
matter, the tender by him or the acceptance by you
concomitant to that act
Mr.. BUTLER-That we object to. This is now get
| ting in the conversations again. Senators, l call
your attention to the manner in which this case is
conducted warned you that II you let in the act
that the declaration would come after it. Now they
this means they cannot get around the declarations
Mr. EvARrs-wnat is the proposition OF the Man.
agerS
| Mr. BUTLER-My proposition is that the evidence
is incompetent and based upon evasion in getting in
liberal in senators TO vote to let In the act but that
lberaity is taken advantage Of to endeavor to get
by the ruling OF the Senate and put In the decara-
/ tions which the Senate has ruled.
| Mr.. EvARrs-The tender by the Chief Executive of
the United States to General In the position OF Gen.
eral sherman OF the war once is an executive act
| and as such has been admitted In evidence by
the Senate. Like every other act which is
petent to attend it by whatever was ex-
pressed from one to the other in the course Of that
act and the determination OF It, and on that PROPOSE
tion the learned Manager shakes his finger OF warn.
ing at the Senators Of the United States against the
malpractces OF the counsel for the President. Now,
Senators, II there be anything clearer, anything
palmer 10 the law Of evidence, without which truth
Is shut and the form and features Of the fact per-
mted to he proved excluded, 1t is this rule, that
| spoken act is part containing the qualifying fact
| and part OF the act ITSELF
| Mr.. BUTLER-To that answer, Senators, that OF
| an immaerial act-an act wholly immaterial-the
only qualifications that could be put in would be the
| answer, perhaps, OF General Sherman. That Is not
offered. But then the offer s to put in an incompe
tent conversation as explaining an immatcral act.
What is the proposition put forwards 1t is Executive
| offers OF Office to any man In the country, and
/ they would put in the fact that he made the
offer OF the ofilce, and, as illustrative Of
| the proposition. I did think there was little NAL
practice about that proposition, but IT was most
| remarkable one He does not act himself, and now
| he says ~ have got the act in; you must put the
declaration in.r What Is the propositions Ii is not
worthy Of words. criminal puts In his act. presses
/ 1t in. Now close. lie says, 81 have got the act I'M
now want also what said about it," Why, II Is
an argument itself.
BY direction OF the Chief Justice the Clerk read the
| question, which had been reduced 10 writing, as
| follows:-
| "At the first interview at which the tender OF the
duties of secretary of War al Interim was made TO
you 10y the President, aid anything further pass be-
tween YOU. and the President In reference to the
tender or your acceptance OF It,"
| The CHIEF JUSTICE submitted the question to the
Senate, on which the yeas and nays were demanded
| by senators Drake and Howard, and the question
was excluded by the following vote:-
YEAS Senators Anthony Bayard, Buckalew, Cole, Davis
Dhon, Doolhte, fessenden, Fowler, Grimes Hendricks
Johnson, McCreery, Morgan, Norton, Patterson of Tenn
Wiley g.
| NAYs-Senatnrs Canernn. Cat,cu- chandler- Cnnklnr