The New York herald., 1868-04-03

" INV cary AZ thC uoy As i thtuh ~ wuS oDOue
Q. Who did you find in the Presidents roomf A.
found the President alone.
Q. State as nearly as you can what took place
therea A. will try and state the substance OF it;
the words cannot undertake to state exactly; the
President asked me II recollected the conversation
he had with me when first took command OF the
department.; told him recolected the fact OF the
conversation distinctly; and he then asked what
changes had been made; told him no material
changes, but such as had been made could state at
once went on to state that in the fall six companies
OF the Twenty ninth infantry had been brought to
this city TO winter but as an offset TO them that
four companies OF the Twelfth infantry had been de-
tached to South Carolina on the requistOn OF the
commander OF that district; two companies
of artillery had been detached by my prede-
cessor; one OF them, detached for the purpose
OF aiding in putting down the Fenian difficulties had
been returned to the command, and that although
the number OF companies had been increased the
numerical strength OF the command was very much
artillery and infantry from the maximum OF the war
establishment 10 the minimum OF the peace estab-
these changes" replied that II he would state to
me the changes he referred to, or who made report
OF the changes, perhaps might be more explicit.
He said, 81 refer to the changes within day or twO "
or something to that effect. told him that no
changes had been made; that under recent order
issued for the of the army OF the United
States, founded on the law OF Congress, all orders
had to be transmitted through General Grant to
the army, and in like manner all orders coming
from General Grant TO any of his subordinate officers
must necessarily come, II in my department. through
me; that II by chance an order had been given to any
junior oflcer Of mine min it was his duty at once to
report the fact. The President asked me, ''What
order do you refer tor" l replied "Order No. IT, in
the series Of 1862" He stated he would see that
order, and q messenger was despatched for 1t. At
that time gentleman came in who supposed had
business In no way connected with the business
which had in hand, and withdrew to the further
end OF the room. While there the messenger came
with the book of orders and handed it to me. As
soon as the gentleman had withdrawn | returned to
the President with the book In my hand and stated
would take 1t as a favor if he would permit me to
call his attention to that order that 1t had been
passed in an appropriation bill, and that thought 1t
not unlikely 1t had escaped his attention. He took
the order and read II and Observed "This il not in
conformity with the constitution of the United States
which makes me COmmander-in- Chief or with the
terms Of your commission"
Senator HOWARD called upon the witness to repeat
his language
the constitution of the United States which makes
me Commander-in-Chiefo or with the terms Of your
commlssion;' replied, ''That is the order which
you nave approved and issued to the army for
government" or something to that effect cannot
recollect the exact words, nor do pretend to give
the exact words OF the President Of the United
states: the President then said sam TO understand
that cannot give an order except through the Gen
era Of the army, or through General Grant?, said
In reply that was my impression, and that was the
opinion the army entertained and that thought the
army was on that subject unit also said, ~
think II only fair, Mr.. President, to say You that
when this order came out there was considerable
discussion on the subec to what the obliga-
tions OF an oihcer under the order. and some emf
nent lawyers were consuted myself consulted one,
ana the opinion was given me decidedly, not equivo
cally, that we were bound by the order, constitl-
tiOnal or not CONSTITUTIONAL
@. Did you state TO him who the lawyers were who
had been consulted A. Yes.
q. What did You state on that subject2 A. Wen.
perhaps in reference to that part OF my statement
was not altogether correct; in regard to myself |
consulted Mr. Robert J. Walker.
z. state what you said to the President whether
correct or otherwise. a. stated that had consult
ed Mr. Robert j. Walker in reply to his question as
10 wno IL was that was consulted and that under
stood other officers had consulted Mr.. Reverdy
Johnson.
q. Did you say to him what opinion had been
given by those lawyers? A. I stated thar the LAWYER
whom consulted stated to me that we were bound
by it undoubtedly, and that understood from some
officers who, supposed, had consulted Mr. Johnson
tlat he was OF the same opinion.
q. what dld the President reply to thatY A. The
President SAID the object OF the law evident
then the conversation ended by my thanking him
iOr TIE courtesy with which he had allowed to eX
press my own opinion.
O. Did you then Withdraw A. then withdrew.
O. Did you see General Thomas that morning. A.
have no recollection of it.
g state whether ,H this paper is oca copy Of
a part Of the order; the order Which had in my
hand has the Appropriation bill in font Of IL That
Is perhaps another form from the Adjuant Generals
office but 1t is the substance of the Order--is part
OF 1t.
q. Is it so far 1t covers this matter? A. As far
as 1t concerns this matter il is the same order, but 1t
Is not the same copy, or, more properly speaking.
the same edition. there are two editions Of the
order; one contains the whole Appropriation bill,
o. Is this (handing the Witness another paper an
official copys A. Yes, sir
Q. This, observe, is headed "Order No. 49," and
you said the order was No. H. Do You refer TO the
same as different order? A.. | refer TO the same
order; think Order No. IL is the containing the
fle in my ot'ce that made .ne confusion III the rst
place; said Order No 40 or II, but order No. IL,
th,ak' ,a ,a enIoraces sine ine appropriation bill.
M. bo'Lhh r .ding the paper tn tie Presidents
the act. ''0 ">'''o' vi
Mr. EvARTs said-Then We win treat this as order
M hp q al
Mr.. BUTLER said there was no difference and he
read the order as ioll0ws:--
uEnRRAL oFnras-vo. Is.
WAR DEPARTMENT,
wAsmiSsTos, March i9. 1861.
for the Information and government of all
s ass eas @ s ad % SF as S 0'
ShcroS Aud be farther enacted Tia. the headouar.
at the e as eS e @ be
Of a War i a sssd G BY ss President i'd % Or
In case OF his absence through the next in rank. The
pended or removed from the command or assigned
TO duty elsewhere hsa at the headquarters except his
instruction. relating military operations issued %
asi an order er ns e
to the provisions Of this section shall he deemed guilty
transmit obey any order instruction ssuc contrary
TO Tue proySns OF this m & section snowing that such orders
two wears and not more than twenty conviction
seS MsreS i s sy '' '' competent "f'd''on Approved
by order Of the Secretary Of War.
f. ID. IOWNSLSD, Assistant Adjutant General.
o. You are still In command OF this Department
A. am.
Cross examined by Mr. STANBERY:-
o. The payer which YOU had and which was read
by the President ON that day, was marked order No.
l1Y \. IL or L..
prlatiOn act printed and set out? A. Yes.
O. in other respects It was like thisY A. I'm other
respects Il was like that; the copy hlc at my ofce
contains the Appropriation BILL and may have con-
founded them.
O. II is your impression that the paper which YOU
had at the Presidents, which was read by YOU at
the Presidents Is the the one In your Office
A. That is my impression.
q AZ understand you, when this document or
No IL was sent To the officers Of The army there as
discussion among them? \. Yes.
q. see that this document contains no conetrlc-
ton of the act but simply gives the their iI-
iormatiOnS a. That Is so.
g. on reading the act a discussion arose among the
oillcers Of the army? A. Yes
q AS TO Its meaning or what? A. discussion
WIN view OF ascertanng what an oflCer's 0bliga-
tiOns under the act were