The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1868-07-22
Wba, the Radicals Reauir..

Duyipg the legislative debate on the French budget
on July 10 NJ. MAGNlN said:-The honorapie govern
ment Commissioner defends the present legislation;
but protest most strongly against IT, IN ,act by
virtue OF these articles the comnlercai notaDss and
heads OF houses designated by the Preiect have
alone the right OF election and II is the Project ln-
self who coniers certificates OF honoraoly ana sol-
vency This is not even restricted sahrage and "
purely arbitrary nasnuch as the Preiecl can make
purely arbitrary selection.
M DARIMoN-I should like TO see the sro1d notd-
bles etirety eGnced rom our legislation. IL Is III
violent contrast with the principle OF equality IN
M BARoCHE-One Word only. We are discussing
q very special eiectofal rlght lHat OF naming
NJ OMIvIgR-Aye not ,re judges
NJ BAROCHE-lou are statesmen. All citizens
have q right TO join IN nominating the representa-
tves Of The country, but the principle applied
20 the election OF judges involves serious danger
(Excamations on the left.j
M. PELLETAN--we demand civil magistrates, nomi-
mated by universal suffrage. tNoseJ
The PREsIDEkT-You are wrong to make these
interruptions. Tomorrow, perhaps you might re-
greet to see them in the MQntteur.
NJ. PELLETAN-We should regret nothing at all.
For my part prefer civil judges named by universal
suffrage to those appointed by minister. lNoise.)
The PREsIDENT-Be 1t SO; keep your opinion, but
NJ. BARocnE-lto the Opposition-If you do not
allow those who reply to you TO speak there can be
no serious discussion. (Hear, hear.)
Different sections OF the budget being agreed to,
the chapter for the support OF public worship came
up for discussion.
M GUERouIT said-I wish 70 call the attention of
the Chamber to the singular and abnormal situation
which Is becoming established in the relations be-
tween the Church and State The Revolution, In de-
srOying the old ecclesiastical regime In France, sub
stued order Of things regulated by the Concordat
and the organic articles According to those no docu
ments briefs or bulls can be published without leave
OF the civil authority Article "a also ordered that
the declaration OF the clergy OF 1882 should be taught
In all the training schools for priests. Those pre-
scrpuons are now quite neglected. The declaration
recognized the independence OF the civil power AT
present the CiUlitd CdttOlicd journal invested by
brief from the Pope with doctrinal authorty-tnter
ruptons)-maintains the necessity that the tenn
pora sovereign should be subject to the Roman Pom
tiff. Tho journal afrmS that 1t Is heresy FOR
the liberal Catholics to imagine Cancellation OF the
Church with the world, and treats the liberty OF
,oorshtp and or the press as madness, poison ana
The PsEs1pENT~I think the Chamber would prefer
to hear your Ownopnions instead of quotations from
the journals. (Hear, hear.)
Baron DE BENOIST-Hellg1OuS questions Sn0uid not
be mixed up with political subjects.
vened at Rome. II tha ideas refer to simply
theories, should not trouble myself about them;
but they influence the conduct Of the clergy towards
the government and the civil authority. That result
is in all countries. In Austria civil marriage 10
mathematical by the Church. AS for public in
strucuon, examples are not wanting In France. me
government paying about forty-six millions year
to the Catholic clergy to propagate IDEAS whlch are
the subversion OF our policy.
The Presidential Is to be presumed that tnere
other motives for spending the money than those
indicated by the honorable member tAssent.l
NJ. GUEROULT-I say that we are without any
guarantee and we are exposed to serious disorders
In allowing such state OF things to subsst. That
Is the Opinion OF Count de MOHtalenDeTt, ueVOleu
Catholic who has written that I'm any change or
regime the budget OF religion will be the rst to dis
appear in the storm not In the name OF reIgous
liberty, which Is perfectly compatible with paid
clergy. nor in that OF religious equality, for during
the last half century the ministers OF all forms OF
worship have been paid from the Budget, but solely
from hatred OF the Catholic Church and to punish It
for its completely more apparent than real, with
contemporary absoutsm" Ihat Is iae OPINION oi
liberty wish to avoid any such violent rupture by
separation OF Church and State Evidently you cannot
~ 10 "a ilnan
Church; and on the other hand, you have right 10
refuse to ally yourselves with the doctrines OF the
Ultramontane school Every one would gam Dy tne
are occurring in consequence or this CONFUSION All
the nations which had COMPOUNDED the Church With
the state are beginning TO see their error, England
among others. And here let me point ont the Ia
ferior position occupied by the Catholic countries
G sss nq Rnssa w Epaan dks and e Ae
win not SPEAK d Ti%asc ,Sent. Then see
Italy (unti recent period, South America, Ireland
and Poland. Does not that prove that there some.
thing IN the Catholic religions tMnrmurs and els.
sent
The PRRsIDENr--I must ask NJ. Gueroult to tres
this subject with the respect it imposes He Is
wrong attribute TO Catholicism the relative situ
ton in which the different nations are placed.
France Is Catholic, and IL sufficient reply to that
argument. loud applause.)
NJ GUHRouIT-I should be sorry to wound any re-
lgous ideas; but when the principles for which our
fathers sacrificed their property and their existence
are denied and attacked, l say solution can only
be attained by means OF a divorce, not by mutual
consent for the Church still clings to the union b.
an incompatibty OF temper. (Movenent.)
M. CHEFANDIER DE VALDROME-I must express m
surprise at hearing NJ. Gueroult attack the free teac
ing as given by the religious establishments. II tn
instruction given was contrary to the laws and I'll
concordat the clergy would soon be recalled TO
observance of their duties will leave the Ministt
OF Public Worship TO answer the proposal for
separation OF Church state; but will say that
the divorce is TO take place there would only he
act OF justice In restoring TO the church some OF tn
property Of which IL has been despoiled, and
which the grant to the clergy Is only c0mpensi
ton.
The discussion was again adjourned.