The New York herald., 1868-04-12

man, but not otherwise The counsel then went into
of those so eloquentiy denounced by the gentle
man who opened for the President Yesterday
as one Of the cases OF the Plantagenets
for authority, and they have s to pick into these
cases which Yesterday they wereto lay aside. The
quesuon there was, what was Lord William Russell's
character for loyaltyf The answer was, good"
How long have you known hmf l have known him
lor a long ume Did you ever hear him express him.
self against the King and the government No. Did
you ever near him express himself in favor Of insur
mans character given They were not arguing as to
what Lord Russell said but they were often told that
e p,S nps say anng nj Again let
pressed and 1t seems to be the strong point in the
to my sna ya% Is vital hoping
i is very important matter, you must pardon me
for arguing 1t at some length.
Mr.. STANBERY-The gentleman has fallen into an
error In referring TO my citation.
Mr.. BUTLER-I cannot allow you to interpoate any
Mr.. STANBERY-One moment II you please.
Mr.. ByrLER-I cannot spare moment for thatpur.
that ~ be ony one e any roe
is that some gentleman may think that this question
comes within the ruling Of the Senate Of yesterday.
after we said the conspiracy had eliminated, but the
Senate decided that should be put in Now however,
e8s e prove oV " What Cooper what
Cooper was doing In December IN order to show the
the Sa M ooS e
for the President propose to show what ne said to
General Sherman in December II has been re.
he never found one in General Sherman. What do
country-that Mr.. Johnson was seeking for some.
body by whom he might get Mr. Stanton out. First
man, knowing that General Sherman not wish wish
ing TO have the cares Of ONCE, would be
sy ito to get sS Of at m and
| else. He began with General Grant, and went down
through Grant and Sherman, and from sherman to
n ThnU and thQn hOun doNvp flnvvr
until he got to General Lorenzo Thomas. Now, they
want to prove that because the President did
not find one In General Thomas. Those two things
do not hold together Does 1t convince you that be-
Interim Secretary and to Sit in his Cabinet ad tn
terfm in General Sherman that therefore he did not
find the proper man In General % Thomnss Then as to
prove this by his acts. am willing that they
should put in any act Of the President about
the Senate ruled out an act which 1 offered
! to prove. But how do they propose to prove
General Sherman. l know, Senators, that you are
law unto yourselves, and that you have right to
Oo override @ rncp res equity
and allow the case OF the people OF the United states
to be preudiced BY the proof Of the criminal made In
his own defence before the acts done which the
people complain of. II they have right to put in
evidence conversation with General Sherman,
Conversation Of the President with reporters
ana correspondents d and call MACK" M,,,essna and
,.
/ think there Is no law which makes the Presidents
conversations with General Sherman any more
competent than his conversations with any other
tP They will get the forty, the sixty, the ninety or
hundred days that they asked for by simply reporting
the Presidents conversations, for | think may say
without offence that he is great conversationast
We will have reporters ana everybody else to tell US
about what he has said Allow me to say one thing
further stated that did not think 1t right for the
learned counsel to state what he expected to prove,
and in order to prevent his stating 1t said that ne
mi oh I'm Ui thOuQlt
1t an unpr0essiOnal thing that he should go on ana
state what he expected to prove and ! said ne
would examine the book he held In his hand, ne
would find that in Hardy's the Attorney General
OF England offered read letter found In Hardy's
objected and said You must not read it until II is
| allowed and given in evidence" The Attorney Cen
letter was Mr. Erskine said could not be read for
that purpose. The counsel for the President stated
dent had tried to get this officer Of the army to take
possession Of the War Department so that ne could
get Stanton out That is ,oN what vhev we charge &C.
any thing get Stanton out That is the very thing we
charge lie would be glad to get General Sherman,
and falling in Major General George II. Thomas, the
hero OF Nashville, ne took Lorenzo Thomas to get
ney General, to drive Stanton into the courts. lie
knew, what his counsel knew, that Stanton would
not go into the courts to get back the ONCE. There
is no process by which Mr.. stanton could through
the courts, be reinsated In his Office. think they
law applies to States aud Territories Of the United
States II does not also apply to the District OF Coum
bia Now, then, the simple question, and the only
one in which you expected to rule, Is whether
the conversations OF the President with General
Sherman evidence, and If they are evidence, why
not all the conversations which lie has had at
any time. with anybody, evdenceS Where is The dis
tinction to be drawnp
questions Of ordinary proprety have been raised and
been discussed at some length by the learned Man
ager, allow me to read from page l6s OF the record
Of this trial on this question OF stating what Is to be
| proved
Mr. Manager BgTLrn1he object to show the intent and
parment the morning Of the I'D Of February that he
force alleged that intent that e e9oss.
Of that allegation Mr Bgreg invited General MOOT
sps e ss
sass; sss RRs3@fa Ss oass
VISIT there on the @ on the evening OF the s ne S sod ac
sy force matter M about sas sa We o that
Mr. Manager Burrrn-You do wha you object
| TO II you do not hear what offer.
| Mr. BUTLER made some remark to the effect that
| Mr. Evarts was misreprescntng him.
Mr. EyAITs-In the case OF Hardy, stated by my
learned associate understand the question related
exclusively to the Introduction OF conversation be-
tween the accused and the witness pr0fessedy ante
cedent to the period OF the alleged treason, and
even that allowed. And now, Mr.. Chief Justice
and Senators as to the merits Of tins question OF
evidence is stated to be made applicable to It. then
1t is crime OF the narrowest dimensions and OF the
most puny proportions. IL consists for Its complete
ness, FOR its guilt, the delivery OF written paper
by the President to General Thomas to be com.
mnnicated to the Secretary Of War, and
that offence, II contrary to valid law,
and II done with intent TO Violate that law, may be
punished by fine OF six cents. That is the mere
dimensions OF mere technical statutory offence, and
It is concluded within the mere act OF the delivery of
the paper, unattended by grave public consequence,
which should bring II into Judgment here. But when
we come to the magnincence OF the accusation, 90
found page sevenyseyen, we will see what It is
We suggest therefore, that are In the presence OF
the Senate Of the United States convened as consti
tutional tribunal to inquire into and determine
whether Andrew Johnson, because OF malversation
in Office, Is longer M to retain the office OF Presi.
| dent OF the United States or hereafter TO hold
| any office of honor or profit on page 97 we come
little nearer, and beg the attention OF Senators 70
what Is said there bearing upon this question.
However Il nav be said the President removed Mr.,
Stanton for the very purpose testing the constuonay OF
this law before courts the question Is viii con
him a crime for dongy II this plea were a true