New-York tribune., 1868-04-18


% 10 nd su hs seS ssf St9 church
Ou connect w the State the Roman Catholic Church,
Of Not from the Liberal benches r, You TOn say
right in saying "no,b for the United Kingdom is Pro
testant people To establish In Ireland the Roman Sano
lie Church is thing which practical man would pro
pose. ICheersl WELL II you won't establish tho Church
have % goSe4ent IN shs resnd with
gous principle hear DenevS tor tcaa cv1a .ne
tion and religious liberty-cheers cay you agree to
thisNo. from the opposition II am endeayorng 70
and inellgble must acknowleage
that the means Of Accomplishment are not by running ,he
Church of Ireland You must accept one or other OF the
alternatives. Cheers.l Some comment has been maze @
on THIS point by the members Tor E6ee Se aa aI% rae
letter stating that the Church In danger Therelwas
letter written by Prime Minister ~ 70
My letter not TO clergyman. 1t was to layman and
was not sent to the newspapers as the member Oo
Mr.. LowE-The member for calne mover said 50.
msquoted the ietter~ycR misconceyed the letter.
Laughter and cheers did not say that the Church
Terminate the connection state and Church. di
vorce authority from the religious principle aud you will
losss ss the the Sss SsS sanction an Of rsOn cheefs Well
sD ask the the PdeS Of fs o snt t. or e
teman is adopted you terminate the connection IN "a
Ireland between Government and The Chureh. ls IL
or is it noti Let US have clear answer How can
you, IL you deal with Ireland. refuse also 10 deal
pies to them that you propose apply to Ireland Then
Task you how you eau meet the question OF Engandf
say that the observations OF the right honorable gentle
man (Air Gadstonel that 100000 in England are mem
bers OF the Church. does not answer the stern conclusion
OF people who are not members OF the Established
Church Are yen tn 70 % KNOW
very well the difficulties have to contend with at
present and what the powers are now ana nave
been for some time met together and Joined TO produce
the consequences which may anticipate, Dut Wnlch
hope yet De race m his SO country for the last few
| years without, 1 think, being prepared LOT lhe
used in the letter to my Lord Dartmouth that It is the
crisis Of England which ~ now ist AppiOachhB iLc
POpe have been long in secret combination near
and cries OF oh aie now ln open conldet!ey lna
such combinations, TO mitigate suc occurrences anu 20
AVOID such oonjectures which we always ielt Woua 10
most dangerous the country, They have c0neured'
they have combined 10 destroy that great pocy OF con
citation which both parties IN the state ap 70 Inc lass
perfectly OF the great diicWues WHICH We nave
To encounter. know the almost supernatural power OF
| almost upon tho realm OF England. On, on anu anu
the pretense o legslaing the spirit Of the they
are they think, about TO seiLe upon rue supreme au
hoty OF the realm Hear hear Bnt tns can hat say
will oppose 10 the utmost OF my aoy' NY tne aI1TpPt
%sc hy Il TrG a pSey the @ honorable gentleman
who their reprcs sentative Is successful u VIII chause
the Character of this country; Will deprive the subjects
of her Majesty Of Of their most precious privileges
and 1t will dangerously touch even the tenure OF the
| Mr. GIGpsroSE who was received with loud cheers,
said Mr. Speaker cannot help making an observation,
OF party courtesy as some which have recently
ed-cheerslthat there are portions OF the dis-
cursiyo speech of the right hon. gcnticman hear hear)
OF which. with every effort on my part fan TO discern
the M o een eea, to nSe e oo o severe
Judgment say that thor appeared tooe due 20 he IN
nuenco OF heated ina gnation. Laughter and cheers
can assure the House that at this hour OF the morning
oclock shall endeavor TO conhne myself TO the main
walton subecs that In tho treatment OF the right honor
aOle gentleman, occupied considerable time MS Ia
bored Justification OF the amendment OK the noble lord
STANLEY by a reference TO precedents think does not
call for detailed reply ina'much as he was mistaken In
for ne said that utolerable To meet motion on
rsh Church by the previous question but he forgot
had been met in that manner mean by the previous
SSt,G% @ % on ' st S s osenon. on Which, during the
Government OF Lord Palmerston, the irish Church
Government coneurring in tho precept OF tho right
honorable gentleman but, avoiding ms pIsc,
negative which be says they avoided Hear. hear.l
We Sir, come now 10 the hbored personal lnyectyes
delivered by right honorable gentleman against the
noble lord Cranborne and the right honorable gentle
that his pacific character Is wen estapshed-tnht nc
never his life attacked man by whom he had not been
attacked before leave those observations 10 speak Tor
Themselves CheeTs But do not for one moment envy
the right honorable gentleman any benefit ne may derive
has shown an extensive knowledge OF history but the
whole historical portion OF his speech VIII as sueclneuy
sonanest Of England was carried effect before the
English conquest OF reand that Ireland was conquered
Gnered In order to bring about that revolution and that
England conquered much as Ireland at the period
tho time Of the Houso II to suppose that it would
be necessary 70 enter INTO detained ~ ,as
with the right honorable gentleman IN coming 70 mat
clear and satisfactory issue which he 30 much DESIRES
and 10 which will Try ittlo contribute, must
words with reference 10 what TOOK place IN e pre-
admit the general fairness with which the debate
has been conducted think that | who appear
hero IN what is called the position of an as
sailant Of the Irish Church, after having in my early
days held strong opinions IN favor OF s maintenance
do less in fairness than allow with the exception
Of the Secretary, who threw few stones at me
OF the glass house in which he dwells hear hearl
that nothing give less ground for complaint than the
which honorable gentlemen have adopted ln refer
the Inconsistencies Of my past opinions There
has been much criticism upon the resolutions and ono
point in particular has been stgnatsed III ho course o
the debate, upon which conceived had gwen previous
explanation. Iventured to express the opinion IN the
speech made when proposing that the House Should
resolve Itself Immediately into committee tha as 1ar as
could forecast the shape which the for the dis
establishment the Irish Church was likely 10 take that
actual value OF the entire property OF the Church
at the when the change took place, not less than
portion and twothrds, OF tue revenue In the hands OF
the members OF the Commission now established by law
i'm Ireland would remain In their hands with the perfect
good will OF the whole Of those among whom they ve
do not profess that me nSaIos a gog TO guU % % nIe o
large what about 10 state VIII not Dc iar wlde
of the mark. believe that the value OF the whole
capalised revenue OF the Established Church may
unfairly be put down at fl3OOOG that the value OF
outstanding property not yet purchased by the Iessees
would be about 100000 and that the value OF churches
and parsonages with immediate appendages would
lie not ess than R25OOo0O making total OF 9lGl0O0OO,
three .ffhs OF which would DO f9,CO0000. Taking
tho life interest OF benelees,. minor lie
interests OF organists clerks. and Others the
price OF aud OF churches and parsonages, the
whole would amount to Rl0,00O00o. or 100000 more
than three iths OF the total property OF the Church
cannot at this point out the details OF the manner
how all this be and now II may be made avail
abe for the the members OF the Church
The right honorable gentleman the Secretary for India
Threatens IL We get into committee with an INDEFINITE
number OF categorical questions He perfectly free to
put as largo number Of categorical questions as he