The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1868-11-03


her Malesty's government. Qiear, hear.D But,
somehow or other though her Majesty's governn ent
had never said they would not to that plan, yes
unquestlonapy they lad, Tor the moment nc al
events turned their backs upon It, and as they have
Turned their back upon It, and a. for many reasons
don't approve IT, viii not trouble you at present
with q discussion on that plan. Now. having dis
posed OF three we come to the fourth plan-to the
plan that IL recommended to you by those among the
conservative candidates who have ventIred to open
their mouths at al on the subject. (LauEhter.) But
these are gentlemen, II Is right that should say,
VINO, though they cannot endure the removal OF the
Irish Church Observation-Disclosures that,
are men who, they beg you to believe. are very
favorable to the removal Of abuses though as far as
know they have gwen very little Information on
the subject. u.aughter.) hut have seen one or
two OF them who that they wish that some OF the
recommendations OF this commission should be
acted upon for the removal OF abuses In the Church
Of Ireland Now, have heard OF no plan for the
removal OF abuses except the plan OF the Church com
mission. Ifee gentlemen, that this Ia OF our DIM
cuites We are p opposition we are not the govern
ment Of the counSfy, and yet we in this strange
and extraordinary position that while propos-
Ing policy to direct the government OF the cou9-
try the government OF the country the Queens
minister's propose no policy in answer to ours.
(Cheersl But although they have not ventured TO
upon ence-Qaugnter)- LOOKING for the mo-
ment which way the cat Is about to jump
cusion, establishment discs ablishment or anything
else you ke-(laughter and cheers)-so soon as 1t ls
cear che pc ne 70 De Goa
to be the plan actually before Us. Let us see what
Ii the plan OF the commission. There are, gentle
men. matter Of twelve bishops in theJrsh Church,
and the first important recommendation Of the COM
mission Is that we should bury four OF them.
Laughter.l Not TO bury the actual men them
porauons." tLaughter.) For you must know
that every bishop OF see and every in
ton SOLE" and four or six corporations sole" they
propose to bury We gentlemen, this proposition OF
ae S 20 ey
you Will understand gentlemen, bids to the
residue OF the property Of the Irish Church. The
tainly richer by burying four OF its bishops but
the residue OF the Irish establishment We'll, them
gentlemen besiles-these bishops being disposed OF
and put away in this indecorous manner TO which
entirely object)-besdes this, it is proposed
duce the income OF the bishops. Now the income OF
more and some OF them have less-and it is proposed
to place them all at $4,000 year. But there Is
most singular proposal in the report OF tho commits
sion, and 1t Is thist-The Irish bishops, you NAV De
aware, sit in Parliament by returns, by rotation;
and the proposal OF the commissioners is
for the year when he sits in Parliament
have G500 extra to pay his expenses. daughter and
cneers.) Aye, but wait moment; don't be IN a
friend the ''paJment OF members" one Of the Ave
points OF the charter. tsenewed laughter and APP
plan Of paying gentlemen to sit In Parliament, which
has always been objected to vehemently, far as
know, by the whole conservative party anu by very
large portion OF the liberal party IN this country,
and which Is not approved at ln-that it first OF
all to come out under the authority OF a commission
to the Irish Established Church. (ear, hear.)
That recommendation, gentlemen, does not very
much help the report OF the commission. Well,
the incomes OF the bishops are to be reduced; four
sees are to be suppressed altogether and a number
OF benefces are TO be suppressed; where there are
not more than 40 members OF the Established
Church the bene1ce Is to be suppressed. Now.
wonder, gentlemen whether any Of you could in
form me why there Is to be state income for
the parish, and why there should not be o
State income where there are less than 4oY What
do you think now has induced the commissioners
have not heard an Ineligible explanation OF it
to fix upon that NUMBER i own to you am
trey at loss. Now, forty wont make congregat on
al time, and thirteen, which Is onethrd OF forty Is
hardly congregation. Haughter.) don't know II
number forty was chosen. l. for my part cannot
plain 1t. | cannot offer q reasonable solution.
("Hear. hear" and laughter.) 1t did occur to me
that perhaps 1t because there are thirty nine
articleS anu one over.
It is recommended that a number OF chapters shall
be suppressed and it Is recommended that wherever
1t possible the parish clerk shall be consolidated
into the grave digger. loud laughter.) l am OF
opinion. gentlemen, that we have got beyond that.
II is great deal too late to save the Established
aud grave diggers. after looking roughly over
accurate '', computation, it seems to me. az
well as l can reckon, that by the bishops they
would save something between ana $4,000
600 to $4,000 year; that by the chapters they
would save $4,000 year; and cannot tel exactly,
but think they might save $4,000 or "a 00o year
by the grave dggers In England we have-it is .
very rough cOmputation-soIne 70, 900 Clergymen,
and assume that there twelve millions Of souls
in England belonging to the Church OF England;
that also Is Q rough computation; and my own
opinion there are more but to be within the line
/ take IL at twelve Millions The revenues of the
Church OF Englaed may in round numbers be stated
at 600 000 and II follows that upon the average
man upon the average has goo Of revenue. Wien
/ consider the education these men have received
and the cost OF that education, and the manner In
ing instructing and guiding both young and old
honestly tell you that think, the labor Of what is
called the working clergy compared with other labor
in this country is about the cheapest labor that any
There II another point that must mention TO you.
Yu0 are told that the Irish Church is to be MAIN
tanned for the benefit OF Professionalism. Now, that
is not an unfair statement Of mine. You know that
is favOrte argument or all those who are opposed
TO us, and you are reproached probably -many Of US
are, 81 all events, Representation time TO time
WIN oeang 'ne an at tnS os, oasnoc re
we have nothing whatever TO do. Ihe controversy
in which we are engaged Is controversy OF civil
Justice. (Cheers) We look on the Irish people "a
the Irish nation and what we say ID ths--we refuse
to withhold justice from them, not on the ground al
cs buy Sss they are entitled as u a and
unrestricted - any man among US. tCheersJ
l need not add they are enttled-of course
tion Is that this Church Ia maintained for the benefit
OF Proestantism. Now, the fairest test OF that ID
found In nuInDer OF frOteStante tnAt nave been
reared under the present system compared with
the other or Roman Catholic population OF the
country. tHear, hear.l Now, you must recollect
that II Ii utterly impossible for US to form true
judgment ON that subject except by going back as
far a. we can, und the earliest authentic statement
that we have upon that subject Ii this-In the year
1872 Sir William Petty, statesman OF that day. gave
the results OF an inquiry-whlch believe II admitted
to have been not very far from the truth-into the
relative numbers OF Protestants and Roman Catho
lies and they these:-TAere three Protest
ants for every eight Roman Catholics IN Ireland;
and, In order that may make the comparison in an
intehgible manner, will compare these different
factions in the way in which we used to do when we
went to school-thats Ia, viii reduce them to what Il
called q common denomlnator and that means forty
Ave Protestants to 100 Roman Catholics. That was
the proportion In 1871, some two hundred years ago.
Ever since that time you have had the whole eccesss
teal property OF the country In the hands OF a
small minority under the name OF supporting Pro-
testantism Not only that but ,or the greater part
OF that time you have had In operation cruel aud
abominabe laws for the purpose OF supprcssng tho
Roman Catholic religion By means that were grossly
wicked and unjust-lchecrsl- the strongest Pro-
fpsta mr. am al aay