New-York tribune., 1868-04-18


manicaon made 10 his Cabinet after the departmental
had closed and before the cabinet nSG SGpss
Of opinion that that part Of the transaction ana tnat
tion. As showing the intent in the Presidents mind
Thesenate voted the question Of admitting the tes
timony follows:
as,sou, Dixon, McCreer, sumner,
Ssyid Ssgis;. Fs.ssda PSSis Patterson at1a
Sssts., css ag%ss eSss: s.alssury. ssas Wisy@as
Davis Johnson s.Sg SgT'E'''
S.l S%;' ES5y g:5.Auy.p S:I1I S:I5H vs. vs. s @
Ceosss HsTla1, a PsmsTSS FI5sIs%n w. Wioa iI4'
RR1ssS RISS,, Morgan. ssSS. Stewart Stewart
So the testimony admitted and the examination OF
tbe witness was continued by Mr. Evarts.
TO the witness-Please state what communication was az
made by the President to the Cabinet on the subject OF
the removal Of Mr.. Stanton, and OF the appointment OF
Cen Thomas and what passed at t1at @ 9e o %
president remarked that before the Cabinet separated IL
was POer for him TO- say a me- sG TRCmas secre
ty of War ad inerio l as asked & 1d hlm whether .ad
Gen. Thomas was in possession and the President Sad
senator HOWARD rose and complained that it was
He NEUTRALITY-SUSPICIOUS. is too much conversation
In the Chamber. ,, 80. g.
Thomas was in possession, and the President said ne was
that Mr. Stanton required some little time 10 remove
his writings-hs papers said, perhaps asked Does
Mr. stanton then acquesce in it He said he did, as he
Nr EV1RTs-was it part of the Presidents answer
that all Mr.. Stanton required was time 10 remove his
papersi r, ,,...,,on, ,o.do that remsrt when
INQUIRED If Gen. Thomas was In possession
Was the time o. which this announcement % @ o. Inc
routine your meetings as to such subjects 1t was
The President usually communicated after the secrea-
res had got through with the several Department ohi
O. Now as to matter which he spoke OF incidentally:
You we're there the next mOrninRl A was.
Q. While there did you see the appointment OF Mr..
@ Mas IT It made out before you came there or while
you were there A. While was there
Te The KoTney H % was there and said must
be the supreme Court does not tne supreme court
meet at IL O'clock A. think his business was at u
O'Clock. -. 49,. ,,,..,
TenureofOhc act is called, at the time 1t passed
.Congressi A. l was aware OF IT. 60. ., IT,,
q were you present at any Cabinet meeting at which,
after c passage OF that act the act became the subject
OF consideration A. was there on Two occasions.
O. VINO we're present, and what was done on the nrst
occsioni A. The first occasion was, think on Friday
the 10Th Of February, 1861 =, o.o ..oD., 7
o. At the Cabinet meeting VINO were Preseht' n
O. Was Mr.. stanton thereI Mr stanton was was there ere
two bills about which be wanted TO DO ADVISED one o
Mr. BUTLER, interruptiug-we object to evidence Of
what tARTs fse 10 the wtness-Ths cv
fee act was the subject Of consideration there A. II was
o. How was it brought to the attention of the Cabinet
O. D} As matter Of consideration for the senatei A.
For consultation and for the advice OF members OF the
o. How did he submit the matter to consideration
Mr. BUTLER, dnteruptng)-h that envelopes any
Mr. EVARTS-Yes, 1t does.
MI BUTIER--We object TO anything which took place
In tho Cabinet consultation, and, in order 70 have this
brought point should like the offer OF proof 20 be
The CHiEFJUsTICE directed the counsel for the Pres
AO. MT. ESGRTs-We viii present the whole matter in
Mr. BUTLER complied, and the offer read as fol
We orr to prove sA.. ts. President. meeting Of as Cabinet
Toe bin for thsir consideration advice
% Of Re: s:Psn c i .I Ss present. & & % ss s's Ss
dent that M bill was SS S. % 3 13 eSSS & Iss 80 CS
ns orss TIE objections consiaOaA o the BIN deoysd
-S vas done by the President Cabinet up the sending
senator SHERMAN--Does that offer give the datet
Mr. EvARTs-It gives the date as during the time the
tll was before the President.
senator CoNKLING-During the ten days
Mr. EVARTs-We omitted the precise date because
Mr BTjTLERNT assume, Mr. President ana Senators
Tor the purpose of this objection that the time to which
the first passage Of bill by the two Houses and the
time Of It's return with the objections OF the President foI
that my Learned friends may be able 70 possess them
selves Of the grounds OF our objections The question t
whether after has been passed under the due forms
OF law, the President can show what bis opin-
ions WERE and what the opinions OF ms his
refusing obey it and execute il. venture 10 say 10
you Senator'S that heretofore the struggle has been on
should sustain the Minister and was somewhat sharply
reminded how faml1ar IL was 70 everybody that Inc
King can wrong In the OF the British COnsttu-
tiOn and that therefore the Minister responsible
but the question which brought your attention In the
trial Of impeachments in former times was whether a
King, not being considered able 10 do any wrong when
he gave express order advice 10 Minister could
shield the Minister, and the British Parliament in Earl
Danby's case decided that It could not He PRODUCED
for his Justification the order Of the King That decision
thought TO Dc great point gained Now the prOpo-
suon Ia have got King who IL responsible il he
can have the Ministers shield himY That is the propo-
son-wbether the advice Of the Cabinet Ministers can
shield the King In other words, whether the Consultation
has placed these points OF the Departments
around him as aids, shields that Is the
question Because II that be done then the aues-
fOn Of impeachment Is ended In this country for any
breach OF law for President there VIII be who cannot
mud subservient Cabinet Ministers 70 advise him as he
propOsion that the Cabinet Ministers are depend
nt upon his w and that ne cannot DC restrained by
law fr0n removing them He told the Senate IN III.
message that Mr.. Stanton hOd told him that he Thought
the law was constitutional 1e would have removed him
before IL went into effect II the President has thai
power any President find Cabinet subserYieni
enough TO him 70 give him advice and that advice cal
shield him, then Il the end Of impeachment.
M. cUhTIb-We would like 70 understand 10 What
message tne honorable manager 10 referrinRt
af BUTLER-I was referring 70 the message OF Dec
ieo In which this language used In substance but
take care that the exact quOtaQn appeaIs IN my re
narks uiht MI Stanton informed him that ne believed
he law CONSTITUTIONAL, ne would have taken 20
mAs effect say that II unlimited power be held by
Sss fresldent. then he always defended himself
hA CaolneL Let us look al 1t In