The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1868-04-17

bond for his appearance. He was himself satisfied
I'VE sa then no nsrsss tna ,of
was not IN custody nor under bond he was DIS
charged; and ! think some one stated HE is dis
charged" Thereupon, In order that there should be
decision in reference to the alternative presented
OF has being placed in custody or discharged on the
record we moved his discharge in order to bring up
the question officially OF his commitment. lie was
thereupon discharged.
Mr.. CrRrIs--I believe that is all we desire TO ask
this witness.
CrOss.examlned by Mr.. BUTLER:-
q. Were you counsel for Surratt2 A. i was
z. Was Mr.. Cox? A. lie was not.
Q. Was Mr.. Bradley, who was advising counsei IN
these proceedingsf A: He was. A..
2. When you got to the Executive Mansion tnat
morning you say General Thomas was not therea A.
i think not, sir; that Is my recollection.
do not recoiecI whether | did or not: had so
learned should probably have recollectedit.
Q. Did you not learn that General Thomas was
lect that did, and think did not
Q. Did you learn when he returned that he had
been there? A. do not recOllect.
Mr.. BUTLEI-I will not tax your want OF recollec-
ton any further. tLaaghter.)
TESTIMONY OF 4. o. PERRIN.
Edwin o. Perrin was next sworn and examined by
Mr.. EvARTS
Q. Where do you resideS A. reside ON Long
q. How long have you been resident OF that re.
gona A. have been resident OF Long Island over
Q. Previous to that time where did you reside
A. In Memphis Tenn.
O. Are you personally acquainted with the Presi-
dent u the United States2 A. am.
Z. For how long time have you been person
ally acquanteda A. knew Mr. Johnson in 1ennes-
See Tor several years before left the State, having
met him more particularly on the stump IN political
campaigns, being wing and he democrat.
z. Has that acquaintance continued to the present
timer A. 1t has.
Q. Were you in the city Of Washington in the
month OF February? A. was.
Z. For what period OF timer A. ! came here about
the LIST OF February near that time and remained
until the LIST OF March or last OF February.
q. during that time were you at q hotel or pri-
vate house? A. was at private boarding house.
q. Did you have an interview with the President
OF the United States on the 2lst OF February A.
O. Alone, or in company with whom9 A. In COM
pany with memoer Of the House or Representa-
@ Who was heS A. Mr. selye, of Rochester,
q. How did it happen that you made this visit2
Mr. BUTLER unterrupting)-l pray Judgment
Mr. EvARTs-Ihis Is simply acknowledgement
material.
Wness-Mr. Selye said that while he knew the
President he never had been formally presented TO
him, and understanding that was q friend of the
President and well acquainted with him, he asked
me II would not go up with him to the Presidents
and then introduce him.
O. When did this occur? A. On the Goth, the day
before.
z. And your visit. then, on the 2lst this ap
polntmentP "A. made the appointment Tor the next
day. informed Mr.. Seeiye that II was Cabinet day,
and that 1t was OF no use to go until after two o'clock
We probably would not be permitted to enter, and
he appointed two O'Clock, at his room, in Twelfth
street, TO meet him for that purpose
Z. You went there' A. | went to Mr.. Seelye's
Presidents house a little after two O'Clock.
O. Did you have any difficulty il getting in9 A.
We had Mr.. Cushing, the usher at the door, when
handed him Mr.. Seelye's card and mine. SAID that
the President had some OF his Cabinet with him yet
and that no one would be admitted. ! told him that
wished HIM to 60 IN and say TO the President or 10
Colonel Moore, with my compliments
Mr.. BUTLER interrupted the witness.
Mr.. EyARTs-Was the fact that Mr. Seelye was a
member OF Congress mentiOnedS A. Yes.
O. so that you got IMP A. Yes.
a. Then you went up siaiIsi A. We were up
O. Then you went on to the President after wbileY
Q. Was the President alone when you went in ?
A. lie alone.
Nj. Seeiyeas amember vi Congress from The RoChes
ter district
.. Without reference to any other conversation
that occurred between you and the President, or be-
tween Mr.. Seeye and you and the President, | come
to what suppose to be pertinent TO TINS case:-Be-
fore time had you heard that any order for the
removal OF Mr., stanton had been made? A. had
heard nothing oft.
Q. Had MI. Seelye heard OF 1t SO far you know?
A. So lar as know he had not found him lying
down when got to his room at two O'Clock.
q. D'd ne then hear nom the President OF the re-
movai or Mr.. stanton?
Nj. BUTLER-l OBJECT to the statement OF the Presi-
dent to tins witness, or TO Mr. Seelye or to anybody
else. II his declarations made TO all the persons in
the country are 10 be given in evidence there would
be no END to this case everybody would be brought
here and where are We TO stopY IL there Is 10 be
any stop II Is now.
Mr., EvARrs-The evidence is proper. The time to
trial commenced. or course it would be more
convenient TO stop the at the end OF the prosecu
ton. Ii would save the time OF the country.
Mr.. BUTLER-Tne question is simply what was said
between the President and Mr.. Seeye Mr.. Perrin.
nave the honor 10 Object TO 1t.
MIR. EvARTS-i am reducing the question to form.
The offer Of proof being reduced TO writing and
handed over 10 Mr.. Butler for ms examination, was
read 10y the Clerk as foows:-"We Oner 10 prove
the President then stated that he had issued an
order for the removal OF Mr. stanton and the ELI
ployment OF General Thomas to perform the duties
dd interim; that thereupon Mr.. Perm said, Sup
posing Mr.. stanton shall oppose the ORDER and tie
Presiden, replied, There is no danger OF that for
General Thomas is already III the once He added
1T is only temporary arrangement; shall send
INTO the Senate al once good name for the Office
Mr. BUTLER objected. lie said that this was mere
narration-nere statement Of what the President had
done and what he intended TO 20. That It never Vas
lied He did not where any limit was To he
put II such testimony were received. II Mr.. Perrin,
who had been heretofore on the stump, could 70 to
the President ana ASK questions and be answered,
and then come TO give evidence OF his conversation
with the President why could not everybody else do
So II MIR. See!ye could 10 there why could not
everybody else goY Could not The President make
declarations TO every man; ay and every woman
teo-(laug hter-Of what he intended to do and what
he had DONE and bring them In here to stfy and 70
instruct the senate OF the United us duty az
u High Court OF Impeachment
Mr.. EvARTs said he was not aware that the credit
OF the testimony was at all affected 10y the fact that
Mr.. Perrlne mad been engaged IN politics, nor did
he suppose that that fact w0lld assist the court IN
determining what was evidence. The question was
whether the declaration at that time and under these
iiittut dHu WHAT lie
had done, was proper TO be given IN evidence. Ii
would be observed that this was interview be-
tween the President and a member OF COngress-one
OF the grand inquests OF the nation. That
at that hour the President supposed, from
the statement OF general Thomas, that
Mr.. Stanton was ready TO leave the Office, only de-
string time TO accomm date his private occasions,
and that the President stated to those gentlemen that
he mad removed Mr. stanton aud appointed General
Thomas al t',tertn, which was their first inte-
pence OF It's occurrence. AS to the motion and pur
pose hen entertained 10y the President this converse
tQf, Hshn "a IN
as charged by the Manager, TO place a slave or
tool IN the War Department to the detfiment OF the
pubic interest, but, on the contrary that the ap.
pOintment OF General Thomas was mere temporary
arrangement, and that he should at once send In
good name TO the Senate. This bore upon the ques-
ton OF purpose and the fact had been already shown
that nomination for the office OF secretary OF War
was sent TO the senate on the following day before
oae O'Clock
MI WILSON, one OF the Managers, objected to the