The Charleston daily news. [volume] (Charleston, S.C.) 1865-1873, 1868-04-16
THE IRISH CHURCH QUESTION.
TIE GREAT DE5ArF IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Irish Church commenced, attracting an audi
ence which in its numbers, and the eager in
terest with which it followed every inciden
and argument, was not surpassed by any of the
most m memorable nights of the two reform ses
sions. The House was densely crowded, both OF
the floor and in the galleries, while the peer;
and distinguished strangers not only filed the
boxes assigned to them, but overfowed into
the corridors and passages. The debate wa;
opened by the clerk at the table reading (or
Mr.. Gladstone's motion) the acts, or rather
the titles of the acts relating to the Establish
ed Church in Ireland. Colonel S. Knox then
moved that the fifth article of the act of union
be read, and, after this had been done, Ar. n
E. Surtees called on the clerk to read the coro-
nation oath. The oath was read at length,
both sides cheering alternately the passages
which seemed to favor their especial views.
Mr.. Gladstone then rose, loudly cheered by
| the Opposition. to move that the House now
resolve itself into committee to consider these
acts. He began by happy reference to the
motions just made, accepting them as sign
that some members at least would meet his
motion by proposition equally broad and in
telliglble as bis own, and that the solemn con-
troversy on which the House was entering
would be conducted without "trick or contri-
vance" This phrase elected loud cheers and
| counter cheers from both sides, but Mr.. Glad
stone made haste to except Lord Stanley 3
| amendment from this category, by admitting
that it was an amendment entirely Wltnln i3 ms
discretion, and fairly raising the merits OF the
case. His general object, Mr.. Gladstone Went
on to explain, was to commit the House to the
opinion that the Irish Church as an establish
ment should cease to exist, and though he did
not hold it to be his duty to undertake re-
sponsibiiity for the detail of any plan, he did
not object to indicate the general bases OF a
settlement. The cessation of the Irish Church
as an establishment must be accompanied by
the condition that every proprietary right and
every vested interest should receive the
amplest consideration and satisfaction; and
more than that. everything which could be
considered matter OF feeling must be treat
ed with conciliation. and every doubtful!
claim even must be handled in o spirit of
equity. The chief thing to be renounced
was the maintenance in Ireland of o clergy
salaried by the State. Among the claimants
for compensation he enumerated not only
the holders of benefces, but those who had
devoted themselves to the clerical profession in
expectation Of succeeding to these benehcss;
the private holders Of advowsons (who owned
about oue-sxth of the church patronage of
u
must also be respected. The result of all these
exceptions, Mr.. Gladstone calculated, would be
that what he described as the Anglican COM
munity" would remain in possession Of from
three-ffths to two-thirds of the present money
value of the church endowments, and fhe resi-
due, he insisted, must be treated as an lr1sh
fund, to be used solely for the benefit OF the
Irish people. The other religious bodies who
are subsidized by the State must be treated on
exactly the same principles, so as to put an
end to all grants from the Consolidated Fund
for the support of any religious denomination
in Ireland. Mr. Gladstone next defended the
Liberal party and himself from the charge Of
not having dealt with this question before; and,
in answer to the sarcasm OF sudden aposta-
cy" aimed at himself, he mentioned that twen-
ty-five years ago, in letter relating to an cleo
tioneering contest, he had declined to pledge
himself TO maintain th, 4ish Church on prin-
ciple, and he attributed his defeat at Oxford to
the views he had expressed IN 1865. Dealing
with the arguments against the abolition Of
the Irish Church, he dilated at great length on
the objection that it would endanger the Estab-
ished Church in England, and insisted that
she would, on the contrary, be greatly strength
ened by being relieved Of this political and
social injustice. He showed too, in an elab-
crate historical and statistical argument,
that though the penal laws had been success
full in keeping down the number of Roman
Catholics, when we had begun to relax them
the proportion between the two bodies had
rapidly altered in favor OF the Roman Catholics,
and the experiment OF State church. there
fore, had entirely failed to propagate Protes-
tantism. Passing to his second and third res
olutions, Mr.. Gladstone said that their object
was to arrest the creation Of new vested rights,
SO that the new constituencies might be more
free in finally deciding on the question, and he
acknowledged that legislation would be neces-
sary to carry out the resolutions. On this
point MIR. Gladstone repudiated i'll the strong
est language, the intention OF merely projecting
into air an abstract resolution"-a mode OF
procedure which, he said, had always been mis-
chievous, and for which he never had and never
willingly would be responsible. CrltlclZlng
Lord Stanley's amendment, he argued that 1t
would convey no consolation to the Irish popu-
lation, that it indicated desire to agtate the
question (Which he himself had carefully es-
chewed, having patiently waited until the hour
had Gomez, and that it showed very little re-
spect for the new Parliament lnasmuch as IL
declined to remove out of It's way consldera-
tions which must embarrass it in dealing prac-
tically with the question. Dealing next with
thu argument that this concession would not
pacify the Roman Catholics, Mr.. Gladstone en-
tered into an historical retrospect to show that
all our concessions to Ireland had been the
effect OF apprehension; and after examining
the character, the circumstances and the causes
of the present crisis, he concluded in all elo-
quent peroration by exhorting the House to
assist in building up, s'by the cement OF human
concord the noble fabric OF the British En-
pire."
Lord Stanley moved as an amendment, THAT
this house, while admitting that considerable
notifications in the temporalitieS OF the Unit
ed Church in Ireland may, after the pending
inquiry, appear to be expedient, is OF oplulon
that any proposition tending to the disestab-
ishment or disendowment Of that church
ought to be reserved for the decision Of o new
Parliament. He commenced by echoing MIR.
Gladstone's condemnation of resort to trick
cry, more particularly rs he foresaw that great
efforts would be made to put the question on
false issue. Mr.. Gladstone's resolutions-
though his speech said much-said nothing
about disendowment, and he objected to them,
first of all, because they were too general,
Swallowed out no practical plan, and might be
construed in any sense. Those who meant by
disestablishment the release OF the church
from State control might accept the rcsolu-
tions with the reservation that they
should retain the endowment. The reso-
lutions avoided all the real difficulties
Of the case, and gave no inEling OF the
manner in which the process of disestablsh-
ment was to be effected. But the real question,
Lord Stanley said, was not whether any
thing should be done, but what was the parrlc-
ular thing to be done. Not one educated man
out OF 4 hundred (''and l." Lord Stanley said,
sam not the one'') would maintain that the &C.
clesiastical establishment of Ireland was all
dalS in 1t: but those who called for disturb
ance Of the existing stlte OF things were under
an obligation to indicate some practical solu-
lion ord Stanley flscnccn1 nnyt tho Oumpr-