The workingman's advocate. [volume] (Chicago [Ill.]) 1864-1877, 1868-01-18

70 U& Mu0eI Stoo4 10 U0t \ e>07Yy bAss -
show the diiIiculty there is In our case On -
count Of the large aumbers Of the men y
contrast with the masters. -
Rule 17-at page 80 Of your book Of rules
says, aMembers Of this society shall be emit,
lied % al benefits BY paying Ii. per wesl
contribution and Sd. per quarter to the con
tingent and benevolent fund :" Yes.
Turn to page 81 and see what these ben
efits ore, and fnd that the tsble OF benefit
is as follows: Donation benefit Tor twelve
weeka, los. per week donation benefit fo'
twelve weeks, 6s. per week for leaving en-
ployment satisfactory to branch or executive
council, los. per week" That means strikes
l suppose, does it notf Yes, il amounts
that
RssTpol benefit % any amount Of loss; e.
where . member six months i; sick bsnent fo'
twenly-six weeks, rs. !; 50 long 90 Illness
continues, 6s. when member six months
fS los. I; accident benefit, fl00; superan
nuation benefit for life, IL member twenty
i've years, Ss. II . member eighteen years
7s.; IL mambsr twelve years, 5s.s; emigra
ton heneht, E6. Benevolent grants accord.
ing b circumstancns In cases OF distress.N
Now that is the table Of benefits which yor
PROMISE, including money thai goes to strikea
which Is wnat is here called "leaEIng en-.
ployment" on payment Of IL. per week and
3D.. per quarter; do you believe that all These
liabilities can be met by such payment ol
Is. per week and Sd. q quarter for the con-
tingent and benevolent fund.- Yes, be
lieye is is possible that they can be, from the
fact that they have been.
Without leviess | believe il is possible
that they can be.
On Whist does that belief rest-on the re-
suits OF long expsrienoef Yes, during the
first four years Of the societys existence we
had no such thing a strike do not sup
pose that we paid with reference to trade
privileges over some few pence comparatively
speaking, whilst during the last three ears
Of its existence we have paid very great
amount In that way. Now, believe tha'
the time will come when we shall have set
tied down into quiet state, and when W.
shall cease to pay such large sums Of money
ss we have paid during the last three yea :.
believe that that will be the result Of the
endeayors now going on amongst the mem
bers 10 establish between themselves and
their employers thorough understanding
BY means Of these working rules. That will
lessen our liabilities to very great extent.
Your belief then. Specializing in regard to
the future from your experience OF the past
with reference to strikes is, that this pay
ment of Is. per week aud 3D. per quarter will
cover all these benefits which you hold out
70 the members who join your society and nj
the same time cover any expenditure Tor
strikesf Wehave something more than spe-
culatlon; we have the advantage Of the ex-
perience Of other societies
will cali it experience" instead Of "spe-
culation," il you prefer it We had the ad-
vantage Of the experience Of the engineers
society, society which was formed by
amalgamating lot Of local societies contain
ing very many old members. They started
from their very formation TO pay ali the ben
efts which we pay, including superapnua-
tion, and had been in existence something
like ten years when we started, and we ma
turAliy thought that If having started with a
few thousand members and very few thou
sand pounds they had got up 20 something
like $50, 900 or f90, 900, there was something
more than speculation about that; We be-
lieved t1ata .sAilling ~ss ~ss,s purchase Just As
much for carpenter and joiner as it would
for ar engineer, and that we take 10 be the
result of experience, and We have, right or
wrong. attached more importance to the ex-
perience Of the past than we have to actua-
ries' calculations.
Then you believe that your promises can
be fulfilled, and that the position financially
Of your association il sound ~ regards the
future; and that belief rests on the expert
ence, not Of your own body 90 m.ch. as on
the experience Of a cognate body Of the ANAL
gamated engineers, who have been estab
lished longer than you have l base il or
our own experience and tia engineers as
well.
But you have likewise stated, have yov
not. az the reas IN OF your hope not being
speculative but existing on q sound basis
that your society is sounded on the model o
the amalgamated engineers' society, which
has existed longer and which you believe 4
be sound 2 Yes.
Are you aware whether in the opinion 0
per ses-s vhp njerstand these matters 6nan
cialiy, as actuaries do, the societT .af anal
gamated engineers Is sound? believe the
same with reference to them as 10 with re-
ference to US, that no actuary ia the world
can calculate what it requires to pay men or
strike or who are locked out therefore, oil
their calculations must necessarily fail, be
cause our lund is one common fund frou
which we pay ell these benefits, and we maxi
@ p=ovision that so long as the men adher'
together, i. will be absolutely impossible fol
anY one man to 20 without his benefit.
We win put the strike. question aside d,
vou believe that, irrespective OF the strik
question, this table Of benefits which yol
hold out (barring the strike elensnt as say
can be mrt by the promise hell out in you
18th rule, that the man OF payment Of Is
per week and 81. per quarter shall be enti
tied 70 cartain benef.sf If you separ ate th'
two you put us out OF existence as trade
union, and that is our primary object.
You admit, then, that if we were to strik
out the strike element and the subscription
for trades purposes, these benefits which yo
hold out could not be met financially bv th
contributions named do not mean any
thing OF the kind our first object Is that 3
trades union, and we bled tAe other wit
it,
All who subscribe to this society are emit
tied to certain benefits by rule Yes
That rule ~ promises them all the bene
ut8s t4rn 70 Tue taotc " UoueHta ~ pax
"a, and I 6nd list including benefit for trad
puipOse / ask you whether, sxcludin
ftrade purposes, the money subscribed woul
meet the other purposes. II Il do not mes
them, a f6yfiovi, n would mos meet Che othei
but ask yea whetheE supposing thst .
/ your money should 20 70 the beneft puposs
the subscription would meet them? hay
no means Of testing that except BY expcr
eBcg, which sabmit 10 fhe Only fair tes
/ 10 has paid the sick bsn<6t and the strike I
well. and left us : balpnce Of &l3,000.
That . for The time you have been in q,
istsnoef Yes.
ls1s Bee upon ths cslcuhtions which ron kno
yen anuss take into conSidessaion with rsfs
sHce 70 the future - Jon heliess thai ups
iyopr present footiag your sosisty = sour
fof benefits alone, putting strikes aside I
4 As % what ] belisvs, ~ opinion, psshap
would be ~ossklsds I belisys at 81 sosn
A but ] have ~ neans n kbouingp puhsthsr
4 10 OK non - 4 said beiaes sxcept by e4peg