The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1868-04-14


do In the first instance issue an order adfec.iny
Mr. Stanton to surrender the ONCE OF secretary OF
War to Mr. L. Thomas; to surrender az the r e;
and property OF the ONCE to him; and in the uisope-
dence OF the Secretary OF War; or his refusal 10 obey
that order 10 exercise the authority when Is vested
in the President alone through his Attorney Genera,
who now appears as his attorney In the trial In the
defence in this case and to issue out ms VII. % 9so
s0arrdnto That is the law which we nndertaket 70 say
Is settled in the case of Wallace 18th wheaton, the
opinion OF the court being delivered by Chei Justce
Marshall and no member Of the erarl us nnen Of
maintained except at the instance Of the govern
ment That power, therefore, was vested In tue Az
torney General Let the President answer Ia some
other way than by this declaration sought 10 be
reached by cr0ss-eXamnatiOn OF their own Witness.
But Senator'S there is something more than that IN
this case, and desire simply to refer ~ IT, mere IN
ment now is substantially and in fact whether, hay;
ing violated the constitution and laws OF the United
States IN the manner shown here they cannot az
they retain to themselves by impeachment to hold
such maefactors to answer before the Senate OF the
United States to the exclusion Of the nerposion Of
every tribunal OF Justice on Gods footst0ol. What
has the question to do with the final decision IN hs
caseS say that If yonr Supreme Court were sitting
to-day In Judgment on this question 1t would nave no
influence over the action OF this Senate. The ques-
ton belongs to the Senate exclusively. The words
OF the constitution are that the Senate shall have the
sole power to try impeachments. The sole or only
power to try impeachments includes the power 10
determine the law and the facts arising IN the
case II Is In vain that the decision OF the
Supreme Court OF the Circuit Court OF the District
Court or OF any other court outside OF this high ri-
bunal Is invoked for the decision Of any question
arising between all the people and their guilty Presi
dent. We protest against the speech that has been
made here. We protest also against the attempt
that has been made here to cross-eXamine this wit
pess to get rid OF the matter already stated truth
fully by the witness, which clearly makes against
their Client strips him naked for the avengng hand
OF justice to reach him without let or hlndrance.
Mr.. EvARTS-Mr. Chief Justice and Senators,
My learned associate, arguing on hypothetical
case asked whether, evidence ELECTED on the
question Of Judge should be injurious to party,
the party would be restricted from crOss-examina-
t0nf 1t had not the remotest application TO, as
must have been apparent to every Intelligent Sena-
tor, and was not connected IN the least with the
evidence given. The evidence given, II agreeable to
The Managers, Is extremely satisfactory to US. On
inquiry OF the President by the ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
whether lawyers could not make up a case without
an al interim appointment the President said 1t
could not be done, but that when there was an ad in
term appointment the case not stand half an hour.
Mr.. BlNGHAM-I desire In response 10 remark very
briefly that instead OF counsel for the President bet
terng bis clients case he has maae i worse By .ne
to the witness to its being impossible to make up
q case without an ad interim appointment. But
dent made an al Interim appointment three months
before this conversation with the Lieutenant Generaa
Has he not made an ad INTERIM. appointment Of
ton then under the Tenure Of ONCE act, and
therefore the question could not be very well raised
have no doubt that that will be the answer Of the
counsel and 1t is all the answer they can make But
gentlemen, Senators, how does such an answer put
In here by the President that he did not make that
suspension under the Tenure Of Office act, but under
the constitution OF the United States and by virtue
Of the power vested in him by that constitution
He cannot play fast and loose in that way in the
presence of the Senate and OF the people Of the
country Why did he not sue out his writ Of quo
UarTdnto in August last, when he had his appoint
ment OF Secretary Of War al Interim? Why did he
not then go into the courts forestaling the power
this violation of the law, for this unlawful act,
which, by the law OF every country where the COM
IT, on its aee and Whc he cannot drive from the
record by any false statement, nor swear from the
record In any shape or form by any mere declaration
with this matter. He tells General Thomas
they. got their evidence In, and now they
M M9 s to contradict Ssed that eva s
orders, and after he ordered Thomas to go to his
own place and Thomas refused to obey his orders he
tells Thomas, say, not that he was going into the
courts not that he should apply to the Attorney Gen.
eral for writ Of quo toa,Tdnto, there was no int
the accused to Lorenzo Thomas the night Of the
LIST Of February after he had committed that crime
against the laws and the constitution OF his country
that Thomas should go aud take possession of his
Office and discharge his functions as secretary Of
Senator DAVIS inquired of the Chief Justice whether
the question proposed by Senator johnson had been
The CHIEF JUSTICE said It was impossible for him
to reply to that question. The witness only could
reply to that.
Johnson be read.
They were accordingly read.
The CHIEF JUSTICE ruled on the objection made to
the question proposed by Mr.. Stanbery that II was
matter entirely within the discretion OF the Court
but that it was usual under such circumstances to
allow counsel 10 continue the inquiry relating to the
same subject matter.
The questions and answers were read by the re-
porter and then Mr. Stanbery's question was put to
the witness as follows:-"Have you answered as to
both occasionss'
witness-The question first asked me seemed to re-
strict me SO closely to the purpose that endeav-
0red to conine myself to that point alone. The first
day, or the first Interview, In which the President
offered me the appointment al Interim, he confined
himself to general terms and / give him no
definite answer. The second Interview, the
nu q The 0 the ' tas @ the
which he made the point which have testified TO-
and In speaking or referring TO the constitutionaty
OF the bill known as the Tenure OF once act 1t the
constitutionality OF that bill which he seemed de-
sirous Of having decided when he said, III 1t could
would not stand half an hour" He also spoke Of
force. first said that II Mr.. stanton would simply
retire although II was against my interest against
wishes, might be willing TO undertake to admins
ter the ONCE ad Interim. Then he supposed that the
Ing Mr.. stanton will not .yiedrI He answered,
.'Oh, he WIN make no opposition. You present the
ana he remarked, ~ know him better than
you do He is cowardly." Laughter in the
Courtl I then begged to be excused from
gave him my final answer in writing. think that
letter III you insist on knowing my views) should
OF It, But my reasons for declining the office were
mostly personal In their nature.
Senator HENDERSON submitted In writing the fol-
lowing qucstfon:-'Did the President either occa-
sion alluded to express to you conviction, resou-
ton or determination TO remove Mr.. Stanton from
his OIlce2'
witness-If by removal Is meant removal by force,
he never conveyed to my mind such an impression;
but he did most Enthusiastically say that he could have
no more intercourse with him In the relations Of
President and Secretary OF War.
Senator HOWARD proposed the following question
In xxrff lni 90 "a ,f fore
what did he say about forcef"
Witness-I inquired, "Supposlng Mr.. Stanton does
not yield, what then Is TO be doner' "Ohn said he,
sthcre Is necessity OF considering that question
on the presentation OF an order he will retire.n
Senator HowARD-ls Vat fun answer to the
question:
Witness-T think 1t Is.
Senator HENDERSON proposed the following ques-
ton IN wrting:-"Did you give any opinion or
advice to the President on either OF the occasions in