Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1868-04-01
THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL.

report closed, the examination of Hon. Burt
Van Horn was cont nued. Witness gave the
following testimony in reference to the inter-
view between Secretary Stanton and General
Thomas:
Gen. Thomas came in apparently from the
Presidents; came INTO the building, and came
up stairs. When he came into the Secret ry,s
room first he said, Good morning. Mr.. Secre-
tary; good morning, gentlemen" The Secretary
repIleo, "Good morning. and i believe we all
said ..Good morning." Then he began the con-
versaion as follows, lreading:l 81 am Secretary
OF war al interim, and am ordered by the
President OF the United States to take charge OF
the once" MI Stanton then replied as fol-
lows, II order you to repair to your room. and
exercise your functions as Adlutant General
OF the army" Mr.. Thomas replied TO this: II
am Secretary of War al int rim. and shall not
obey your orders; but 1 shall obey the orders
of the President, who has ordered me TO take
charge Of the W ar Department Mr. Stanton
replied 10 this as follows: ''As Secretary OF
War, order you to your place Adjutant
General Mr.. Thomas replied: II Will not do
So" Mr. stanton then said an reply TO General
Thomas: 'Ihen you may stand there If you
Pr ast; but on cannot act a. Secretary of War.
II You CO, you do 20 at your peril. Mr..
Thomas replied 10 this. Il shall actas Secretary
OF War" Ihis was the conversation in the
Secretarys room. After thar they went 10 the
room OF General Schrlyer. opposite to the Sec
retarys room. Mr.. Stanton said, s.Theu you
CLAIM to be here as Secretary of War, and refuse
TO obey my orderss" Mr.. Thomas said, Il do,
sir, and shall require the mails of the Depart
ment 10 be delivered to me, and shall transact
all the business of the War Department" That
was the substance of the con versatioa which |
heard, and, IN fact, the conversation rs heard
IL.
Witness was cross-examined at length by
MI. Stanbery, and, IN answer TO questions,
stated that be went TO the War Department TO
see the Secretary of War on public business
the time being rather exciting one: Went There
10 talk with HIM on public affairs. namely on
The SUBJECT OF the removal; did talk with him
ON that subject; when the conversation bet ween
General Thomas and the Secretary began he
had large envelope and pencil in his pocket
and during the conversation IL occurred TO him
tbat ~ might be well TO know whit they said:
did not know that he was in the habit of Masking
memoranda of conversations; nobody requested
him TO do it, it was OF his own motion; one ex-
preston occurred 10 him now that Thomas
used, and that he did not get down
On Redirect examination by Mr.. Butler, wit
ness said the remark referred TO by him in his
cross.examlnatlon, that occurred to him now.
and that he had not written out, was from Gen.
Thomas, TO the effect that he did not wish any,
thing "onpleasant;' that was what Thomas
said.
Hon. James K Morehead was sworn. and
testified to the above facts substantially "a
sworn to by Hon. Burt Van Horn, except that
he did not recollect of Thomas using the ex-
preston that he wished no onpleas antness A"
General Thomas wanted to get IN and Mr.
stanton wanted to keep him out: there was
nothing very belligerent on either side; II was
more stern in Mr.. Stanton's ROOM Mr. stanton
ordered General Thomas to leave; that is the
only thing that looked line sternness
Walter A. Burleigh, delegate from Dacotah
Territory, being sworn, testified that he saw
Gen. Thomas on the evening OF February 2lst,
at his house.
Mr.. Butler asked: Had you conversation
with him witness answered in the affirma-
tive.
Mr.. Stsnbery.-Whati is the relevancy of THAR
What Is the object
MI. Butler.-The object is to show the intent
and purpose with which General Thomas
went TO the War Department on the morning
OF the 22d; that he went with the intent aud
purpose OF taking possession by force: that he
alleged that intent and purpose; that in con-
sequence Of that allegation Mr.. Burlelgh in
yited Gen Moorhead, and went up TO the War
Office. From the conversation. what expect
TO prove is this After the President of the
United States had appointed General Thomas,
and given him directions To take the War Office
and after be had made quiet visit there on the
2fst, on the evening of the 22d he told Mr.. Bur-
possession by force. Dir BurIeigh said TO him
Mr.. Stanbery.-No matter about that We
object to the testimony.
Mr.. Butler-Then you don't know what you
have 10 object TO, If you don't know what IL is
The CHIEF Justice decided the testimony adj
mlssable, speaking in very low tone.)
Senator Drake.-1 suppose the matter OF adj
mittng the testimony is a matter for the Senate,
and rot for the presiding officer. The question
should be submitted, think. TO the Senate. 1
take exception 10 the presiding officer under
taking 10 decide the point
The Chief Justice, (rising. THE Chief JUS
tice is of opinion that he should decide upon
objections to evidence. If he is incorrect In
that opinion, il is for the Senate 10 correct him
Senator Drake.-I appeal from the decision
OF the Chair, and demand the decision OF the
Senate
Senator Fowler asked that the ouestjon he
stated.
The Chief Justice.-The Chief Justice won Id
state TO the Senate that, IN his Judgment IL IS
his duty to decide on questions of evidence IN
the hrst instance, ana that If any Senator de-
sires that the question shall then be submitted
TO the Senate, 1t is his duty TO do it, far a. be
Is aware, the uniform Course OF practice on
trials OF p rsons implicated in the Senate Of he
United States.
MIR. Butler argued against this ruling of the
Chair, at some length, and was followed by
Messrs. Bingham and Boutwell, on the same
side, and by MIR. Evaris On behalf Of the Presi-
dent In favor of the ruling
Mr.. Wilson renewed a motion previously
made by him that the Senate retire for consul
tation, when the vote was taken, resulting
yeas IS, nays D.
1t being a tie vote the Chief Justice voted
aye-thus giving practical effect 10 the position
assumed by ham as 10 bis right to vote
The Senate, headed by the Chief Justice then
about O'Clock, retired for consultation.
When the Senate retired 10 an adjoining
room, Mr. Henderson moved 20 postpone the
pending question on appeal, with a view To
take up the rules. This was agreed to-yeas
80, nays Is.
Mr.. Henderson then moved amendments to
the 18th rule, when motion was made aud dis
agreed 10 10 strike out from the same the woTds
which provide that the rulings on questions of
eviuence and incidental questions shall stand
as the judgment of the Senate.
Mr. Sumner offered an amendment 10 Mr.
henderson proposition, as follows: .That the
Chief Justice presiding in the Senate in the
trial OF the RSesident Of the United states is
not member OF the Senate, and has no authori-
~ 70 vote on any question during the trial"
mis- was rejected by yeas, -; nays. 70. Mr..
Drake moves an amendment to Mr. Hender-
sons proposition, as follows: alt is the judg-
ment OF the Senate, that under the CONSTITUTION,
the Chief Justice, presiding over the Senate in
the pending trial, has no privilege of ruling
Questions Of law arising therein, but that all
such questions should he submitted TO and de
caded BY the senate"
This was agreed 70 by-yeas. 20, nays, 90.
MT. shern IN submitted the following, which
was re ected by vote OF 23 against 25:
THAT under the rules, and in accordance
with the precedents in the Uni.ed States IN
cases Of Impeachment, all questions other than
those oil order SHOULD Be submitted 70 the Sen
ate.s
Finally the Senators agreed 70 Mr. Hender-
sons amendments 70 the seventh rule, rs fol.
lows:
The presiding officer Of the Senate shall
direct all necessary preparations IN the Seps Ia
Chsmher. and the presiding officer unor ar