New-York tribune., 1867-08-03
Mr. HAZE nep.. Essexl moved reconsideration Of The

ing the of the Convention with reference to large
mittee of the Whole be discharged from the further con
sderaon of this subject aud that be referred back to
the Standing Committee, with instructions 10 report a
plan for 33 Senate Districts
Mr.. SPENCER (Rep, Steuben) offered substitute He
said that his object TO test the of the Convention
upon the tenure of office well the question OF single
districts. He would divide his substitute in such manner
that the vote could be taken upon these propositions sep
Mr.. RATHBUN Rep., Cayug@ hoped that neither Of
these test questions would be carried They needed ds
cusson of the question of large small districts and t
best TO take it upon the report OF the Committee He
had favored the system OF large districts but he wanted
gentlemen to express their arguments against IL. lie
doubted whether gentlemen ready to vote upon this
question in its manifold bearings at the present stage OF
the discussion His impression was that from 1921 TO
1916 they had better Senate thanssnce that time when
Senators brought closer to the people Ie ne was
open conviction many others, ana was eager
To hear the arguments from the opposite side; .
Mr.. PRINDLE (Rep., Chenango) ana not DelleVe that
the present state of affairs called for action separate from
the Committee of the Whole. -. a.,
Mr.. C0MSTOCK Dem, OnOndaga) moved tnat ule
resolution aud substitute be laid upon the table CaeH
The Convention went into Committee OF INC Nhoie
upon the report of the Standing Committee on the Oga
cation OF the legislature Mr. Archer (Rep Waynel III e
chair The CHAIR stated the question TO Dc upon tne
amendment of Mr. Ballard Rep., COrtand substituting
80 senatorial districts for the original report of the COM
Mr HATCH Dem Frie) approved this amendment
He had failed to appreciate the arguments in favor OF
changing the present system He believed ia letung
of power through large districts. II the proposition OF
the gentleman from Westcheser Mr. Greeley could De
shown to be practical it would receive his cordial sup
Mr. E. A. BROWN G}ep., Lewis was decidedly IN favor
of small increase in the number OF Senators IN order TO
meet the wants Of the great and growing City OF New
tenure of Office What will prevent corruption
i'm our legislative bodiesl frequent call
10 official account at the hands OF the people. Ine
neople want TO know and choose their man. Integrity
and honesty not scarce that 1t was necessary 10
TO link county to county in order to find single man NJ
to sit in the state Senate II objected that small poll
ticans in small way secure the nomination IN
small district This proves too nuch III destroys the
theory OF representative government On whom 90 you
fl barl IA
people peo SpO know W' R nofRng Of candidate except
the single districts the people know Their nelghDors
When they are put up 0T Qc bsr af the y single %
district system had always worked well and there was no
proposed change II the people themselves were TO
represented in the Senate and Assembly let them have
whom they know and can trust. II he prove unfathful,
give them the opportunity 10 SEND MN speedIy lhVo
oblivion.
Mr.. BOWEN Rep. Niagara) favored the report Of the
Committee Suffrage 80 far as II referred to the Senate
rial districts II had been urged that the intention OF
the Committee was partisan but TINS should make IKE
no difference, even II true, on tne question OF tle
adoption of wise measure. The Committee dlscaim
any partisan action in the matter and should he credited
in the assertion II II objected that tne dstcts are
large the constituent may not be acquainted with the
candidate nor the candidate with the needs OF those he
represents The same objection may ne against the
smaller districts Objections made against the pro-
posed division OF districts not being fair nor equitable
II there IL system more fair than thls !et the SonVen
ton adopt it but at present seemed 10 him that the
Brook proposes to detach the County OF Westeheser
from the lid District, but does not offer any
Of or" that county. II he has better plan,
let him propose IT, He objects again TO including colored
Conyenton has determined to give them the franchise
and they will enter upon their rights soon as this Con
S always have existed and viii exist and the convention
will have done its duty it makes these Inequalities as
small rs possible II the amendment IS adopted making
81 districts, he should favor term OF four years.
Mr. BERGEN Dem, Kngsl had lived under both sys
Sot Anu nomination SfD on IN mad district where party has
large majority amounts to an election He saw 10 gain
known, and the Judgment OF others must be taken.
There evils in both systems, 1t was uue but the
the advantages Of single districts oyerbaanced all dsad
vantagcs II the old system of large districts was
adoped his experience had shown him that the evils
would only be increased In large district single
clique can control the entire nomination TINS would be
by the single district system Corruption must
be corrected at it's source II the people are corrupt te
representative will also be corrupt Ihls cannot ne
avoided But the correction OF the evil must begin Win
-" Mr. SEYMOUR Dem, Rensselaer, said there were two
proposOns here viz; OF large and single districts. For
himself he held 10 the theory OF large districts and
would sustain the action OF the committee provided they
would prove that they had equally apporOned the ds
tcs They could not raise the character OF the senate
unless they gave the Gpe Sn[g o oSrase5 S 5oSua
smaller states Thi, would give chance 70 select
hest men II objected that people IN one part OF the
district would not know candidate named from anOthef
y,,rt az the state He thought the eject would be
otherwise ItwOuld compel men 70 nominate candidates
widely known and highly esteemed. II candidate who
not known and trusted We're nominated he opposing
y, hS nS5rtins ny & 10 pornatr their hest men He would
not institute comparison between the Senator'S chosen
under the present Constitution and those chosen under
the Constitution OF 1921 but he would say that leading
men OF to-day looked back with pride upon the time when
the Senate Chamber WAS filled with men every
one of whom was fitted TO hold the highest office
in the glft OF the people Of this State. This
point could again be reached under ule
stcn NJ large districts as presented by the Committee
ii,
report There subject upon which people were SO
jealous that OF political power M lie qua not DeITe eve
Th te sRoud wealth but he preferred
", W II IL mon 1e GOOD old Democratic doctrine OF rep
rcscntation by population The average population for
District under the proposed system Is $1,000 goodly
sent The CITY of New-York has i've Senators, and
large surplus OF $1,000 showing lack OF representation
OF nearly naf the ratio In the I'D Dsiet tne excess
n loss OF representation amounting 10 lO59oI'
The lid Senatorial District as stands upon the pro;
eromme will be made a Republican district He would
NOT ask that the districts be divided according TO po
cal districts The IIId District at present shows denGt
nf 33 GG while the IVth has small surplus OF 1888 IN
the lid Vth WITH With, and With Districts there
are large deficits of population They lack when taken
together more than the ratio OF one Senator VIZ li6
So Won have by tins report surplus Of more than 10000
in the lower enOcrac districts which Is nnrepresented
TO more than this VIZ l4,6ll SO you have mere thls
double inequality. This was great injustice At the
Re beped . would be fair to all parties and districts
would strike out from the lid District the County Of
Orange with $4,000 population, and add the County or
Albany with population of 10000 Then he would take
Osego with population OF iI2s from the WIN District
and add IL TO the IVth District in place OF Albany.
Mr.. HALE rep, Essex held that representative
Legislature approximated TO IT'S design tne more neatg
n genresented the people This was very imperIecty
done under the present system. Certain counties are
always Democratic, and Others invariably kepnoheal,
Minores i'm these counties represented ana the
nissrtune is not only theirs but that OF the state THIS
he ovoidable but II IL can he remedled, IL should
3one This subject has received much attention here
and in England Mr. Hare's system of minority repre-
Ssnntation was highly commended by Mr. John Stuart
HIi as advantageous and feasible. In the speakers
opinion IL was practicable He had intended to pre-
nt II hut did not do So because he had not time so TO
Derfct n as 20 apply II all the details of our ballot
Et he was convinced il would be feasible and beneficial
Tbc svstem OF the gentleman from Westchester Nir,
oieyl was that known as the cumulative system He