The New York herald., 1867-06-14

renee TO taxation and expendtuic cs, unless II had
state II seemed therefore that the division made by
tho Cohmttee OF sixteen could not DO Improved; ana
he should be compelled 70 vote against the amendment
and against al other amendments thai would be offered
Mr.. DuaASSe, rep, Of ", regarding the vote on
which would iorcsh.dow the feeling or Tho Convention
on the very mpoan, canal interest OF the STATE called
for the yeas and nays.
Mr. TiLpES, tdenll OF N. r., opposed the amend ment
OF Mr. Hatch. IL had been The jud4menl ol ;he ,nn-
miitee OF Sixteen that whatever commites charged
With the duty considering shsr should be With
reference the impros enent OF the Erie canal would
find al consideration OF that subject inse unless con-
siuered also where Tho ways and 10 be Oh
tanned with which that enlargement 70 ba made
Equally futile wonid 10 be 10 attempt TO reeuat., by
constitutional son the finances oi the state II that
subject which Included the CHEF part Of Of
the STATE and the chief part OF s expenditures 10
be excluded from the consideration of The committees
The question OF EuanceS was unit incapable cf dis
seserancs without confusion and chaos He appre-,
honded that the disposition TO make any division OF the
subject matter arose from failure 10 consider the
difference between the action OF the Convention and
tai of the Legislature How was IL possible to
income and expenditure separate the subject
revenues OF Inc State the sablect or Their expen
dtnrcy IL seemed TO him that the Convention would
invoive itself in ne,ricahle and cnnle.s confusion
aness the entire sgcct OF Nays and and o. the
ojorts TO which those ways and means werc be sp-
red were united IN The sl;era;,oE OF committee,
and we're treated eniiye inGvisble subject.
II ne wero TO look ~ tho municipalities o. tho state and
inquire wba. was that hnd made tisni in thc city
o. New York--an organized chaos instead OF govern
mont he would say thai IL Was because the Legislature
had frequently attempted 10 discover the spending
power from the power which provides the ways and
n,nans. II was Fundamental in all human rasrs thar
those who provided the ways aud means should rule
occr those who were TO oxpend them. The family
could not be organized any other basis No great
corporate body could be organized on aIy other basis
There must be unity ard there must be supremacy
the part OF those who provide The and
and necessarily nanca and he therefore did not .ins
il possible ID make any such dsseyerance w,,hoat
cassng tho greatest possible mischief Ia the delibera
t0ns Of The Convention.
Mr. FoLGER of Onrniaca regarded Mr. rilden'e re-
marks as being founded ialiacies. II might aave
been supposed from his renarxs tna, the Convention
dealing with details insteat Of with general prncl
pics. What the Convention had TO do TO lay foun-
dauDs, Dos 10 build snpcrslractures IL oeait for in
stance, with the general principle to The method in
which the taxation OF the Stale should be raised. to
what general objects should be applied aud from what
general subjects il should he derived. that the
general principle on which the Committee on Finances
aud Taxation was to use its power. so with lie Commit
tee on Canals. That committee to inquire into The
vast subject OF lhe canal sem OF The Siae to test 10
discover and TO report ipon It's car.hlllies aud is
cessy not only to this State, but also 10 the ar West
which was dependent on this State lor canal facilities
Is the Committee Canals should decide IN iasor cf lie
enlargement and improvement, he wocid thon
lonk IL the Committee Finance see
from whence should the means for their enlarge
mens and prcvemenL If these committees made
conflicting reports the Convention could decde between
them. The rcpor. OF the commteo OF sixteen did
already whnt the gentleman tMr Ildenl argued against
1t had assigned committee the question of the
and management of the canals. What that sabiecs
OF inquiry into the cost OF their mana2 enen
into the the disposal Of the LEGISLATURE or 10
be raised by taxation 10 improve them and into tho
necessity for their mprovementY Inc subject OF the
canals could not be considered without also considering
the question of taxation and finance If the canals
yielded q surplus then II should he determined what
was 10 be dore with that surplus; and II they did not
yield surplus then was the necessity for their enlarge
ment paramount 70 cali the State 10 determine
that the Legislature shonld provide make thar
enlargement All those details grew out Of the frat
scp towards the consideration Of the .ana sabiecI
Mr. u. c. MURrry, ldcm.l OF Kings, made few
mars against Tho amendment and in support OF the
pori Of the Committee Of Sixteen. s
Mi. C0xGRR, dem OF Rockand, opposed the amend
ment II the recommendation OF the COMMITTEES OF SIX
departed from IL would 10 virtual instruction
to the President Of the Convention that In constituting
the other committee, which 20 have specially in
point on Il majority OF the friends OF tha, measure
He trusted that such unpleasant task would be i'm
posed che President OF the Convention by the adop
ton OF which. however IL might be dSgused
other practical parliamentary meaning than the
instruction President give committees the
spec subject oi canal enlargement favorable
the measure than opposed 10 IT.. That grsat
point on which the question before tho Convention
rested. ssse s49 ag
Mr. Hsrcn aid that gentlemen had taken very erro-
neous view OF the amendment he had proposed. IL
really had not the n'portanco which bad been attached
10 IL But u we're disposed to force u on the
Csnveutiou ~ this time as test question u was no fault
Of his. e5 =, sat s. ts9t.
been admitted BY ali that the arrangement reported by
tho Commsites Of sxlecn the best that under the
could be presented 20 N: Convention FOR
would adopt the report.
The question was taken on Mr. Halch's amendment,
anu Is was rejected yeas AZ, nays "a, as follows:
yE4sMcs-rs Ay0ra. ndreys, Archer, Axtell, Baker.
Gorbsti. cnrtl.. DwisIt M, Fa.num, Field; Fol
ans"sses Ess sn
ps.er rrGsser nssnsd y. n'g R"o ss.ss shs
and Young--4a
NAvsnxessrs; 4 7, Allen G. l: Alien Ballard Barker.
Brown, " 9. srowa, Cassidy, cnsmpiain, csessbro,
Prs
els, Gsrvn, Gerry Graves, .ireeey Gross. Haze. liam
ION. ilsissinF. jirsis Kssss. Kinney KrS@ fAgSs%,
Lss% as s
isasSbun Eobesison Roy A. D. Russell sons schnaser, r
ssa,e Seymour Sheldon s.n Spencer s,ra:.oD
Seedss, Waterman Wales wessam, and wiiiiams-a ~
Mr.. Bell, rsp Of Jefferson moved to amend para
graph nine, by making Il read On the finances Of
tue State FAR the same shall relate 10 the canals
public debt and trust fund" Rejected.
Mr. BEL also moved to amend paragraph ten by
making u read:--"on taxation and the revenues and
expenditures OF the State, tpau canals
springs, and restrictions the power OF the Legislature
in respect thereto" Rejected.
Mr.. RnEKHrscS. tdem.l OF New York, moved TO amend
the ninth paragraph by making is read On the
finances and properly Of the State &C. rejected.
Mr.. FoLskR, OF Ontario, renewed his amendment 20
strike out all paragraph relating TO canals
and paragraph ten. and TO insert n lieu paragraph
Mr.. WExD ldem.l Of Clinton. supported the amend
mept Hs did not see now ik adoption could in any
way smbsrass the President OF the Convention In the
appointment OF committee on that subject
Mr.. CHURCH tdeml OF Orleans opposed the amend
n,cnt The arrangement made by the Committee Of six
teen involved IN respect the merits Of the propos
lion Of shr enlargement Of the canals II only de-
terminsd the manner IN which the Convention would
proceed 10 act on he suolet tho great quesion Of
finances and expenditures must necessarily be under the
charge single committee and he therefore trusted
thar the amendment would NOT prevail
Mr.. FotGER, .of Ontario replied 70 the argument Of
Mr.. Church. The preston Of the enlargement OF the
canals should have entered II all into this dsscus
sion but tine Committee OF Sixteen 10 forming the
division Of SUBJECTS had tssf dragged the matter into
The Convention He trusted the Convention would take
the middle course-not determine here BY ts vote.
either implied Direct that the Convention - either for
against the enlargement Of the canals but leave 10
where other questions let-o he taken care of 10
The future whsn she reports Of committees should
come in
Mr. rnsp,x, trsp., Of thessngo, did not regard this
test question In whatever vote he should give he
desired IL 70 DO understood mother 10 favor Of nor
against the enlargement Of the canals He did not want
20 decide that question NJ the present tne and ne aid
wish 20 give vote upon u nov.
Mr. w. l. 1owSsgyp. rep Of Rensselaer,, thought that