The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1867-08-04

~~o->~~>~~~>~>o~--->--~~~
Debate ON tho Derby Measure In she Hessc Of
Lords-Earl Grey's Administrations Of
tho Ultra Tories.
moved the second reading Of the Representation OF the
People bill He commenced a lengthoned speech by re-
o epe IF the
system to the period Of 1882 when public feeling was
strongly excited, and when the change proposed wds
almost rerotutiOn respect OF the distribution
Of political power. Expressing hts conviction that
the Reform act had operated beneAcialy, no pointed
ence Of strong political passion, many points
had then received the full consideration they de-
served noS w ~ ns of s
reform question In 1852 Lord Derby referred to the
various measures the subject which had been pro-
upon that submitted 1885, attributed the breaking up
Of the late government the mprudence Of Mr. Glad
had proposed il. The late Ministry having been
defeated and having resigned, Lord Derby said he
accepted office with discrimination 70 40 ns pest 70
FORM to which the conservative party had never offered
any obstinate resistance, as he showed from the
fact that occasion had they opposed the second
reading Of bills relating that subject while in 1859
Lord Russell BY his amendment defeated the second
% the
bill ITSELF Lord Derby explained the various changes
Of procedure adopted as the result OF fixed desire
he regarded a. the main feature Of the bii-the
borough franchise-he said that, after the resolu-
limit should be reduced, he thought with Mr..
Henley and Sir r. Palmer, that there could be
=" @ sSg .,s a rssS.nc s and
payment Of rates. which was but recurring to the old
scot and lot system that had prevailed anterior 70 the
Reform act. Having explained the clauses abolishing
tho compound householder and expressed regret that
the House OF Commons had not consented 70 allow
between landlords and tenants whereby the
former would pay the rates and the latter should
ceive his right the franchise, he referred TO the
vary lar0a add In ho
stating the changes in the couney franchis he proceed
cd to justify the redistribution scheme, which, he ad
portion Of the bl and designediy co. the govern
ment had sought TO enfranchise much and to dis
franchise little possible. He regarded II un.
desirable that small boroughs should be completely dis
franchised and he regretted that the House Of Com
mons had declined 70 assent 70 the proposed system OF
threatened amendment Of Lord Grey. which he minute
ly criticised contcnding that Il was unnecessary, and
that its adoption might retard the settlement of long
pending agitation aront the other House by reject
;ng BIN which IL had unanimously agreed 70.
Lord GREY moved rs an amendment
That the representation of the People bill does appear
this house 70 be In It's shape 70 effect
the anry but the
h &C. for The passing Of
e ss .es e T S sa Ssn
ssss Be : 70 70 me
BE justified his proposition by the peculiar c,rcum-
ory OF the House Of Commons really disapproved tho
bill to which they had formally assented He conceded
the difficulty Of finding any safe resting place short OF
household suffrage the ten pound limit Of the borough
franchise abolished but insisted that abolition
nexpedien under It's operaoe the best portion
OF the working classes already enjoyed the franchise
and their numbers continually increasing. He
strongly objected the abolition Of the compound house
ishss as il would be- impossible 10 collect rates
from the tenants OF small houses aud an
additional burden would thus be cast upon
class Of persons but little richer He argued that the
bill, passed In its present shape, would cause so
much discomfort that agitation would be revived and IL
wond consequently fail to fulfil Its object a settle.
ment Of the question. He condemned the lowering OF
the borough franchise as transferring the electoral
power to untnown and he feared not he aos trustworthy
hands, giving greater influence 10 the managers Of
tads unions and certain TO increase the expenses
of Parliamentary elections.
reform bill came with bad grace from the liberal party
gave his adhesion TO the second reading.
, ,n.r oS. .e OIL a pver r,p ,u,mdna
the compound rating had been yielded under pressure
TO meet the exgencies Of the moment He predicted
that the principle OF personal payment OF rates would
speedily disappear and that household suffrage, pure and
stmp would result from this conservative measure as
Lord STANFORD DE- REDcLrryz obi ected to the
mcnt as illsimed and unnecessary, and calculated to
provoke dissenson with the other house Of Parliament
There were, however, details which he considered re-
CURED amendment in committee.
The DUKE OF RUTLAND not satisfied with the bill,
believing that had been introduced at wrong time
ami by the wrong persons All the securities originally
proposed had been given up and the remain
ing one would, ne feared, speedily disappear the Dill
were passed In its present shape. Although he could
/ not support the amendment he hoped that the bill
would be returned TO the Commons amended form.
Lord CAnPERpowS also objected TO the bill as sweep
ing measure, and avowed hrs preference for the o Of
lso6, which he believed majority OF the members OF
the other house would DO glad to revive were possible
Lord cAsyAavoS remarked that the bill OF the lat,
government vas opposed on the grounds OF Imperfect
information and Its tendency 70 swamp the existing
stuencles: but no coutended the bill proposed
| based upon no fuller knowledge and would admit still
rf 49,.
ering OF the franchise the suggested
be to dsfranchss ne rsntd trss of uecM and eduea
regarded a. OF extreme gravity Although he admitted
that the working classes entitled 10 distinct rep
resentaon yet paramount influence offhat one class
| which he believed this bill would create was vita
change, AND times of srcnq excitement might lead
consequence vhich did not 20 hare been contemplate
Lord Carnsrvon argued that the effect Of the reduces
franchise would be- In urban and manufacturing counties
place the representation in the hands Of the voters
TO the party uses to which the reform question ha,
been put strongly dissenting from the statement tina
household suffrage had been the faith CT the
| sentative Cabinet, he commented severely upon In
rapid change OF opinion BY the leaders OF the govern
| ment which, he said, had destroyed TIC foundations .
| poii.icai truth He however recommended that tn
amendment should not be pressed, as there would be
fitting opportunity for improving the bill in committed
Lord BkAucBAxP supported the second reading OF
bill which he hoped would settle disturbing question
and which, he believed, was based upon constitutions
Lord GRANVILLE after some banterng allusion 10 sus
gestod conservative discomfort with the bill, declare
his readiness TO accept the sion Of the franchise
embodied which. he said, would have been proposed b
the late government had they not been oppressed wit
the a. now appeared, unnecessary dread Of conservs
| tive opposition. Commenting upon the manner in whic
the bill bad been altered he attributed the concession
made rather TO wish to obtain victory the OF
position and notably over hr. Gladstone With rcspet
10 the redistribution portion Of tho bil he regarded il
unsatisfactory but II assured that the present
| meni was but temporary, he would not oppose u
The Duke OF MARLBoRorcH defended the bill as ha,
ing been maturely considered, and insisted thai "a
alterations introduced were the work Of the House
| Commons as must have been the case in any msasur
| that was Intended to pass into law.
Upon the motion OF Lord sHArrRsnurY the debate WI