The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1867-08-05

scas bound % act And so IL with respect 70 the
Corn laws. Sir r. Peel admitted that he convinced
by the arguments Of Mr.. Golden that he had been
wrong IN his opposition do not complain Of the gov
eminent Tor having brought forward reform uil do
not complain Of the character OF that bill pro.
vided they had forward and stated plainly that
garding the predominance OF q class But do com.
plain OF the manner which this bill has been brought
forward shall not repeat anything said in the other
house, and most powerfully said and said In this House
(ths Earl OF Carnarvonl
Earl RUSSELL said remember when the
Duke of Wellington said that he would introduce re-
form bill, though much more moderate one than that
which the government Of Lord Grey introduced for ne
SAID nas ne DID not think he could show his face In the
streets unless he did what he thought his duty 70 his
sovereign But SIR r. Peel said he could not walk erect
IN doing that which he had repeatedly described 10 be
dangerous innovation. Hear hear) Well, those two
great men were sincere and had sincere Convictions
But u appears that adroitness and ability in the
present day consist In acting part, IS If feeling
one set OF opinions when you entertain opinions
exceedingly adroi, but find Il impossible to believe
that either this House the other house of Parliament
or the country 10 general will entertain any sincere re-
spect Tor those who practise Il. And will say
few words with respect the amendment Of my noble
friend and the course which will take with respect to
noble friend for having brought forward his amendment
We have had an interesting debate In which the House
hssn ~ me Views I've
description Of this measure; but there part Of the
amendment which II s impossible for the House 70
adopt because my noble friend asks tho House to do
clare that the measure not calculated to promote the
future good government Of the couutry. ] con-
future operation this BILL certainly do not feel much
confidence about it, and don't think the House feel
confidence that 1t Will operate TO the future good gov
eminent OF the country Those who may take the
gloomy view Of It may be mistaken and therefore, on
the WHOLE would not become the House to adopt the
be introduced at subsequent period which will lead
permanent settlement. With respect to the payment
OF rates lind that in the bill Of 1854 there was pro-
vision to repeal The condition OF payment OF rates prior
TO registration. That provision the bills both OF
1854 and 1865 After the decision OF the House OF Com
mons, however, II would be quito impossible 20 make
such change, as there would be chance that tho
House OF Commons would accept It ] do not think,
therefore, that would be right to propose it, trust
that my noble friend will not persevere for he pushes
the amendmen. to division II will DO impossible for
me to vote for 1t. (Hear, hearl
The Earl OF DERBY said My lords, 1t Is somewhat
markabe that in the course Of this debate although the
amendment has been uomnaly the subject of discussion
not one word in defence Of It, tHear, heaE) cannot
except the noble earl who introduced the question
to your lordshps notice. because from the state Of
haustion in which the noble earl found himself at the
close of heightened address, his failing at the
time he was about to announce the grounds which
he would recommend the adoption Of the amendment
he unable the reasons which had led him
to Introduce II. Since then NO one has spoken in
favor Of its adoption l conclude. therefore, that
the noble earl will follow the advice given by the noble
lord opposite Earl Russell will withdraw the amend
ment and give your lordshps further trouble about
amenOm6nt,
unless lead the House the belief that there
would be division at the end Of the debate belief
hope which about to be frustrated and therefore, to
Keep greater number OF your ordships In The House.
Had the amendment, however, been introduced,
your lodhps would have had the opportunity OF
debating the provisions Of the BILL For my part have
not the slightest objection to the heightened discussion
extending over two nights, which has taken place
But having troubled your lordshp: good deal
on moving the second reading Of the BILL
am happy to say That on this occasion l will
occupy your time but for very short period.
Well, my lords, the first thing that strikes some.
what re markable with respect to this discussion Is that
although the criticisms upon the bill have been neither
very nor oa craze yos with regard 70 anything
been not only entire absence Of any suggestion but
most extraordinary discrepancy Of opinion the part
OF the four or i've peers who have spoken against tho
BILL not agreeing with another 10 the principal OBJ
eetons to particular provisions was TO what they would
have substituted for them The noble earl who intro.
duced the amendment mado. as he said very free ad
missions with respect 10 the franchise. He said that
his mind there was great deal to recommend a
to adopt 1t, and he went on to say he
also agreed with those who held that be-
was no resting point; for If you did not adhere to the
El0 franchise you must come down to household
suffrage But aaothcr noble earl the Earl OF Shaftes
bury took different view; for he said he would prefer
adherng 10 the clio franchise But however excellent
Il may be Theoretically to adhere 10 the fl0 franchise,
there any Of your lordshps who thinks It possible
Hear hear) The fl0 franchise has been condemned
again and again; and If to adopt the alternative
the noble earl that there Is nothing between ElO ant
household suffrage and 1t Is impossible to remain 1t fl0
then the for household suffrage proposed by he
Majesty's government. is clearly made out. (Hear
noble lords. must take into consdera
ton the views Of those who have favored with the
the future of this bill The noble earl who has
spoken last and then my noble frend-Here the noble
earl turned round looking for Lord Canarvon but not
is aee that he Is at time part Of the House
and at another in another Laughter) My noble friend
and the noble earl opposite differing altogether from the
noble earl who moved the amendment, concur In one
respect The noble earl Earl Of Shaftesbury) asks
S@s g he o DC I sr Se % e.
stairs IL getting the first landing tore kicked doon
10 the sscosdr (Laughter.l My noble friend
ought to reduce tho franchise" And why Because
be says In few years you will be called upon fol
further reduction. Thus we are 70 go down two OF
we now arrive at Now the noble opposite arl Rus
SELL will remember what said hiry:fre years ago
about bit by bit Reform" That od the expression used,
and the noble earl will recooct how strongly he argued
and to the best Of my ability argued and others argued
against the impoiicy Of making these bby.bt reforms
CONCESSIONS and laying the groundwork for future and
6evef csasipg agitation. Hear hear wholly differ.
the franchise should take place now. with view to the
extension Of franchise hereafter thus keeping up
agitation, instead Of terminating IT, Hear hear NY
noble friend the Earl OF Carnarvon considers that the
franchise have nxed Is too low, but following the
example by most OF your ordshps who have spoken
to his Judgment He says il is both too low and too
uniform. But my noble and learned friend lord
Cairns) has, think, shown that far from beng
uniform, Il is the present franchise which 10 open 70
that objection, while that which We propose Ia suscepu,
BILE Of rich variety When, however, my noble friend
says that the franchise too uniform he again fails TO
inform as nov 70 vary the uniformity. AZ {ar AL IN
erstand bis remarks he seems TO Contemplate the dis
tnct representation Of the aboring classes II he did
cannot any element of dscord % great any
source of embarrassment certain that number Of
men should meet In the same House OF Commons one
st among them representing the higher and the wealth
iof and the other the poorer aud the lower classes,
and that these men should be brought face "
face, charged with separate interests, instead OF
representing the combined interests Of tho whole
community lCheers) II I rightly understand my
noo's ,rleno cmnc' conceive more ooyScs,onaoss
different interests Hear, hear Then again, the
noble earl who has juss sat down, has condemned the
franchise proposed the BILL but having condemned IL,
he tells that the whole he does not the way 70
improve and 10 make Il more moderate or conserva-
tive, only he suggests tho doing sway with that which