The evening telegraph. [volume] (Philadelphia [Pa.]) 1864-1918, 1867-12-24
THE ROMAN QUESTION:.
Great Debate In the French Corps LsRIs.
lattf-M' Jules FRvre Creates an In.
tense RTcitement

said:-
Gentlemen, when my colleagues and myself
presented demand for Interpretations, it was
10 draw from the Governm explicit declara-
LIONS 10 meet that, the honorable Minister
nus Dsen precise, but there Is one point to which
wish to call the attention OF the Chamber, in
VolVing, as II does, an inconsistency in the pro-
valiantly accepted by the Ministers is not the
same Iged as that which they took upon themselves
IN 1867. The MOntteur Is there to attest the fact
Lnat In Ihat year our occupation, In the opinion
oi the Emperor, could not be any longer main
lalned, and our ambassador at Rome declared
tInaG II was become altogether impossible
lNoise.) From that tmpossibility Bprang the
Convention of September, as the Government
hoped that the Holy Father, remaining face
70 face with Italy, would come to an under
standing with her. From lS40 to 1864 the Govern
ment explained its intervention by the hope OF
obtaining liberal concessions from the Holy
in 1865. Well, / say that the situation has
changed entirely. said to you the other day
French action was that the former was sub
mlssive, and the latter gave advice To-day
with absolute submission TO the Holy Father
(Nolse) You have got out OF adifficult position.
It was not possible either to advance or reooiI
You have recalled, and made France do so like
Government of the Holy Father is in opposi.
1ion to modern liberty, use the terms OF the
EmpeTor's letter: He had hoped TO bring about
aconciliation between Liberalism and the Pope.
The Government has now lost that hope, and,
therefore submits to the Holy Father. Marks
defend the Pope in every case. At present
Gne french Government is in the face of an
Italian Cabinet, which 1t declares to be COM
posed of moderate men, and TO whose policy it
gives its adhesion. What is that pollcy2 You
have only to cast your eyes on the circulars OF
General Menabrea to see that the possession of
Rome is declared indispensable to Italy. Qn-
lerruption) There is another point which the
Minister OF State has not touched. He has
spoken of the mark of Difference which the
Holy Fathet has given us in consenting to par
ticipate in the Conference without condition
Can he say that the Holy See accepts the com.
promise which French policy would wish to esta-
blish? (Noise) You are going to pass a vote of
confidence, as In the affairs of Germany and
Mexico 1t Will nave the same fate, (Murmurs)
AS for us, we ask, what are the means by which
you propose to attain the object pursued
Providence and time are invoked. That is
holding puerile language unworthy Of a
great nation and great assembly. (Fresh
ernment of France is not strong enough to
force its viii on Italy; but do say it
the Pronunciation of the vote of 1851 Italian
unity has been attributed to the House of Sa-
Dante, the principal inspirer during the pre-
sent century has been the POntG who now OBJ
structs IL. He it was who sounded in Italy the
cry for deliverance; he 1T was who reused the
courage of the Italians. -(Murmurs.) desire
bility now than in 1919 and 1864, for this reason
that neither Ital nor the Holy See will aban,
don their pretehsions. Thence this conse-
quence arises, that our occupation will be inde-
finite. We shall spend there twenty-five mill
lions year, we shall lock up an army and fleet
which under certain circumstances would be
valuable elsewhere. You compromise not only
the dignity of France, but you mark with the
brand of policy cause which ought to find It's
strength higher than in arms. Noise; Vote
voteD Well, If you will not hear me- gentle,
men, vote. (The honorable member descended
The President-f recall M Jules Favre to the
tribune, and beg the Chamber to preserve the
attentive attitude which it has hitherto done
M Jules Favre reascended the tribune amid
laughter on some benches. and sald-Gentle.
men, this may appear amusing to you; 1 find it
sad enough. We are men. and ought not to act
like children.
The President-I cannot allow the last words
to pass unnoticed. The Chamber does not act
as NJ Favre describes. But at the end of de-
bate so long and an attention 30 sustained when
convictions are formed, it issnatural that the
Chamber should experience some lassltude.
M. Jules Favre, descending from the tribune
Then let 1t repose!
NJ Glais. Bizoin-It is not lassitude; 1t is i'll
The President-I must notice the word which
M Glais- Bizoin has just pronounced l am
bound to state that, on the contrary. during the
whole of this debate the Chamber has shown
how anxious IL was that the discussion should
be full and free. (Hear, hear) In proof OF my
assertion, am willing to allow III. Glais. Bizoln
M. Glais- -Bizoin-I appeal 10 the loyalty Of the
President. few days since he said that 1t
Giais. Bizoin to take down his words. Does not
Justice require that he should also place another
bel, r,whence incessant in nterrnptions have arisen
since our friend Jules Favre appeared in the
anpiying the w regulation to me, but I e- have a
right to demand reciprocity for the members OF
M Nogent ST. Laurens-Mere trade jealousy.
The President-I have not heard from the side
YOU designate the interruptions of which you
Complain. Dissent on some benches) There
may have been certain murmurs, but no In
terruption has drowned the words of the
speaker. (True, truel
Mr.. Chesnelong-The Interpretation which
nv friends and myself addressed to the Govern
Ynent had three objects-tO thank 1t for the in'
terVention at Rome, to tell 1t that we saw In tha
step a gauge of the direction which 1t will i'm
print on the negotiation, and, lastly, TO give &c
the Government the assistance OF vote of this
Chamber. After the speech OF the Minister OF
State and the explicit declarations made by
him, to the effect that the French Government
would never permit Italy to seize Rome or the
present Ponti1cal territory; that III any new
international act interVenes, the past conduct
OF the Government gives the certitude that II
will not permit the guarantees of the Holy
Fathers security to be Weakenedi ana That Il
there is no new convention, that of September
shall subsst in Its integrity-consdering these
declarations, we have only thanks to address JC
the Government, and withdraw our demand
for Interpolation. Great applause. "Vote
M. Berryer-One word, gentlemen. 1 fee
bound 10 say that am very happy to md my
self in perfect accord with the sentiment of the
immense majority of the Chamber. (Hear
near Th, IS manifestation will resound through
out Europe. Why should not the sentiment
which ins pires us be brought to the knowledge
of the Government under the form of referring
10 IL the demand for Interpolation? WarIoui
moVements) hear 1t said that this step would
have the character OF dlstrust. do not SCI
The President-I am obliged to remind thu
Hon. Deputy that tie demand for 1nterpella
tiop being Withdrawn by its authors, by Lht
terms OF the rules. II cannot De submitted TO th'
Chamber (VaTiOus movements)
NJ. Berryer-It seems TO me that the act ha
not vet been completed by the President. Blu
as we have obtained formal and positive decla
rations, without ambiguity, nom the Minister
shall not press the point .