New-York daily tribune. [volume] (New-York [N.Y.]) 1842-1866, 1866-01-30

fRosersS He Raymond) had learned long ago that !,
was much better TO he right with political opponent
than wrong with political adherenti ana he had z.
with the gentleman from New-Jersey, than es wrong
even Ia such distinguished company % shat OF the gen
ana 1rong In this Question and should act on his Own
| Judgment endeav0-ing TO De right % eVsry pom.
The gentleman from Pennsy yans would nnd that th,
wss no noston for him. for he had expressed himser
20 the anne effect In speech at Wilmington Dell if
the fall OF 1863. II the States had gone OUT " .ns
Union they must have gone out at psrIlcuiaI unel
and in consequence Of some SPECIFIC ac, sna 10
for definition Of the time and act; 1t was cay %
tell when each State became member " tue oniV.,
and it should be no less easy 20 tel when cesseo !.
be one fit ever did When did South CaIohna eeAss
20 be memberI Was Il the day she adopted the ordl'
nance OF SECESSION Did the act of secession maHe s
cease to be q memberi Would any gentleman main'
tain that theoryi lie did not understand tno genue
man from Ohio 20 maintain that position. Al,
| Mr. did not maintain that POSITION;
Mr.. RAYNoND-If the passage OF me peho,
States what did, Was it the fact that they made war;
That fact was nothing in itself-that wise game when
two could play az ana unless sdey rsIsysncy al all
and could make no change In their constitutional rcla,
tons Was the duration Of the war that accomplished
thar RESULT II So what the length OF time essen
tial 10 ts Accomplishment Was the mode OF making
war the fact alluded 20 BY the gentleman not
Pennsylvania (Mr BromelD' OF their converting tns
homes OF our martyred heroes into ornamensf w
course no one pretended that Then It was neither the
fact OF making nor the duration OF the war nor
the method Of carving i out %aen see h.. %
result of the war which could accomplish ltt III the
war had peen successful then only would the purpose
Of separating from the Union nave Deen accou
Mr. RAYMOND combated the idea that the decision OF
the Supreme Court in the prize cases showed thar inc
Rebel States were out Of the Union, and quoteu rg
Judge Griers decision, and from Mr.. klclaru ~;
Danas pamphlet on II, TO sustain bis position IL nae
been claimed that the Rebel States had fOrieleu tee
rights and had, Therefore ceased TO have any rights
That was . novel doctrine TO him. He did not Know
poul forfeit their rights lney Certainly
could do IL outside Of the Constitutions and tnefe
provision in the Constitution under when ney
could do It, They had nos done 1t by the laws OF ma
lions. We had not wsged war Of conquest upon
them. We had acquired by OR victories over Them
nothing but What we nt S .aro, Ts nu Scared the
Rebel States Of all the authority that opposed
the execution Of the laws Of the United states aho'
when that was DONE we're done, and the states re-
NAMED as before We certainly had not conquered
them in any sense OF sgbjnaaion. There was 10 pro
vision found In the Contribution for the forieiting oi
State rights There provisions for punlahlnY
ndiyidTas. but not for puRshing States Tne acts OF
the Government in all its Departments-EIecutlve;
Legislative and Judicil-confrmed that view anu
proceeded that surposltiOn that they were states
OF the Union when the Rebellion broke OUT
that they continued to be States Of the Union
during oil the war. and that they are nov SIa.e
referred 10 the proclamation OF Mr.. Lincoln 10 NV
declarations private and public, TO his nrst naueura
to his diplomatic correspondence through tne
of State his Message TO Congress 10 bis letters 20
Horace Greeley aud Fernando Wood, and to the reply
made the French proposals for mediation OF ne on
of February 1863 stating that the Congress OF the
TIniteS State. furnished aGonsiutoa forum Of debate
for the aenated pa:ties that Senatoss aud representa-
tiyes from the loyal portion OF the people were
there already, fully empowered TO confer, ana
that seats we're also vacant inviting sena;
tors and representative from the dlscontehleo
part who might be cOustitntionaly sent there
from the States involved In the nsuTrectl0n. MI Ray
monl also referred TO the laws of Congress passed IN
the sane idea to the tariff and revenue laws TO tde
act for the apportionment OF representatives 10 eso
luton defining the object Of the war TO be IL defend aLo
maintain tie supremacy Of the Constitution and 70
preserve the Union with all the dignity tqrahy auL
rights OF the States unmpaired ms resoutlOn pass.
In the Summer OF 1861 had been voted for by all the
Union members Of fhe House including the Speaker MI
Kelley and Mr.. Shelobarger. The gentleman from Pa
Mr Steyens) had not always held the theory that tue
Rebel States were out Of the Onion for the 9TH Of
December, 1902 he introduced resolution declaring
that il any person in the employment OF The United
States in either tho Executive or Legislative branch
should propose to make peace or accept or edvse TIE
acceptence of any such proposition on any other basis
than the integrity aud entire amity Of the United
States and their territory as they existed az the me OF
the Rebellion. they would be guilty of high crime He
mfr RaymOnd did not propose 10 be guilty OF that high
crime. He had heard it said that the Rebel states
were estopped by their aots from claiming their
rights But he submitted that the doctrine OF eSlopyage
ist BIO mutua and that as long as Congress had de-
of the States unmpaired Congress estopped from
putting in any other plea to-day MI aymond also
referred speech delivered by Chief Justice Chass
nearly year ago in Dartmouth College In which
he laid down the proposition that the Rebel
States remained States Of the Union; and that the
second process Of reorganization wss that the Govern
ment should now revert TO the hands VI the Southern
ueoDle Mr. Raymond referred to tie conduct OF fres
dent Lincoln and President johnson since the close %
the war, in Issuing amnesty procamaions snS shR
States with their political rights. He did not know
that there any special call for the inteposon Of
Congress the subject. Tie duty had been well per
formed by the Executive The States were In the
full exercise OF their functions OF se.fgovernmenI
The Federal laws were on ther statute Dooks
and were duly executed Taxes were collected there.
Their ports were open. aud vessels entering them paid
duties as in all the other ports Of the country Those
States day States OF the Unlnn ana cond Only
be got out Of the Union by expulsion BY positive aei
of derivation All that remained "a be done was the
admission OF their Representatives into both Houses Of
Congress. All that Congress hed 70 deeiue was OF
what principle they would admit them.
! Mr. STEVENS inquired whether this House could
make law changing the qualifications OF membersA'
fixed by the Constitution.
Mr. RAYMOND did not think that both Houses could
do that but held that either House might add disqual
ifcations lie argued in favor Of admitting loyairep
resentatyes from loyal districts even though the resi-
of State was left unrepresented. Inc House needed
Intelligent representatives from the Southern States foI
its own information and guidance II had aodlcateo
its high functions and committed them 10 joint com
mttee OF l5-tO q committee that sits IN secret.
that does not degn 10 give the House information
on which base action. but sends Its receipt To the
Won,e and demands ratification Of 1t before tie going
down of the sun. Was that constitutional mode ..
acting on this great subcctf Was 1t mode that cono
satisfy the patriotic conviction of any memborf He
re0iced 10 say tlat the goOu benSe Vi 'De husc s'
reyolted at the m0nstrons outrage OF deciding
so great questson as this ON 10 emal Dlsls
II demanded debate II had had that debate; and be
was very much disappointed that In this debate. mem
beers had not taken serious view OF the matter
He had heard good deal about the necessity OF exact
ing guarantees from the South. for instance. TO the
non assumption Of tho Rebel debt and the non'repG
diaton Of tie Federal debt. There was nothing
practical In this There was no danger that dollar
Of the Rebel debt would ever be pad and as 70 the
Federal debt, the security for ITS payment was moi
| by any such guarantee, but IN the passage Of
laws imposing taxes. We must come. said be. to