, 1865-12-27

! Ar. RI do not think the American people
are at all liable to forget the fact.
NJ. B;-Well, they might happen to be mis'
should require those States simply to repuH-
ate that debt.
Mr. RI do not think they possibly could,
| because that does not imply anything about
the power Of those States hereafter. I am
simply speaking Of what We hare the right
| TO- require them to do. There Is another
that Is The prohibition Ct slavery. We havu
the right to require them to do this, not only
IN their State Constitution, but in the Coustl-
tuition Of the United States, aud We have re-
] quired 1t, and 1t has been conceded. They
have also conceded that Congress may make
such laws as may be requisite to carry that
prohibition Into effect, which includes such
legislation as may be required to secure for
them the protection Of their civil and per
| kunal ri5hts-their right to rfe, liberty and
the pursuit OF happiness. This, am sure,
the gentleman will concede to be substan-
tlal guaranIty one placed beyond The power
These things the s President Of the
Cnftcd States has deemed 1t his right,
os Chief OF the armies Of the
United States, to demand at the hands OF the
States which have been deieated In their at
tempt to separate themselves from the Union
Is the condition Of relaxing the bands Of nil
them nga1n the control OF their Ioca1 State af-
fairs, he made these the conditions upon which
they would be allowed, so lhr as his rightill
authority extended, to rcsumo the practical
exercise Of their functions as members Of the
Union, which had been suspended by their
rebellion. He has done this in the exercise
of his lawful authority as Conmaudcr.ln-C CHIEF
Of the Army Of the United States, and was
therefore responsible for the complete eup-
preston Of the rebellion and the restoration
Of peace, order and loyalty In the regions
where they have been for time disturbed
agents exercising . delegated aud just au-
thority, acting en his behalf and In bis naule
just as his military generals prescribed the
terms aud conditions Of the rebel surrender In
the field; and the fact that these concessions
have been granted, affords ut least a fair pre-
srmption that those who make them in-
by an the obligations, and fulfil all the du-
ties imposed by the Constitution and laws Of
The United States. It may possibly be wise
fer us to dismiss ali these concessions and Ill
these guarantees given by eight millions OF
people, and sanctioned BY the most solemn
tcr1ns of legislation. as utterly worthless and
each Individual must exercise bis own dlscre-
tion upon bis own responsibility.
Mr.. sPALpEe-fhe gentleman from
New York, hasstatedo that II Is
right and reasonable that the de-
States that they should assent to an amend.
ment TO the Constitution prohibiting slavery
In the Union, and also that 1t Is right and red
sonable We should require that they should
repIdiate a1l debts contracted In support Of
the rebellion. Now, I oak the gentleman
whether tLera Is any limit to the right 10
judgment Of Congresae
Alr. RI think there ls.
Mt. SrALDE1-l ask what limit. SO that
We moy understand, and whese doez il baloug;
"ho has the power to afhx that limit?
MI. R.-My impression Is that these requI-
sitions are made part Of the terms Of the
surrender we 1avo right to demand at the
hands Of tho defeated Insurgents, and that be-
longs therefore to the President, US Comman-
der.iu- Chief Of the nrmy and navy ofthc Unit
cd States, to make them and to liz tho limit
rs to what they shall embrace.
Mr. B.-1n regard to that Constitutional
amendment, without Congress moTlng
first ln The matter and without their action, ,de
would never have bad the power at all to dc.
mand Is ratification by my rebel State.
Mr. R,-CeEta1nly, there arc many things
which could not be done by the President
without the notion Of Congress.
alr. B.-Congress is now making further
provision that m amendment shall be made
to tie Constitution that no State shall uay
any part Of the rebel debt
was not Congress but the President who re-
CURED the rebel States to ratity the Consti-
tutlonal Amendment as q condition or the |
resumption OF their functions.
Mr. B.-1 beg the gentleman's pardon; this |
u IN important question, and beg leave 10
say that be would be bold man who would |
States Ind maintained the supremacy Of |
thelr, ConstitatiD, and more than three
(ourths Of ali the loyal States had 80
amended their Constitution that their action
Eas void without the consent Of the rebel
states, aud after their rebellion had been sub
aued by arms, the States In rebellion might
rot only repudtate the amendment, but OF
3Eht might come into Congress 10 resist the
Of its humane provisions by lust
md needtal laws, It vas not within the power
u the PRESIDENT OF any other man o1 this
'atth rlshtfuny to assert such authority or
loWer In the rebel States, over the action Of
he loyal people of twenty-five out OF the
twenty-five loyal States. The President never
aid SO, and never meant to say 90.
Mr. R'-The President did 1t, Congress did
,ot.
Mr.. B,-What / meant to say was
his: Congress imposed that obligation upon
lin, backed By the power Of the people, and
hey hare right again to impose like ohl1ga-
ions upon him, and have right to assume
hat he viii cheerfully and faithfully obey
.heir requirement.
Nj. R.! an sory tho gentleman
;eens determined to get up m issue conce1n-
ug the notion, past OF future, Of the Ptesl-
lent upon this subject nm not away that
have given him any ptoTocatlon for 50 do
ng.
Nj. B.-The gentleman win excuse me,
,m sorry TO sec the gentleman ASSUME that he
alone represents the President.
blr. R.-Wel1, Mr.. Chairman, as the gentle
man considers the President has not said it,
alr. B--No; and he could not sayft.
Mr. RI do mot know that he ever pro-
posed or wished to say 1t.
Mr.. B.-No; but then there was nothing
n the gentlemnn's remark.
nent. through the channel designated by
aw, the Secretary Of State, when ii was fonnit
That three-fourths Of the States had ratified |
Lhe amendment, Issued . Proclamation to
hat effect, naming the States which had rati-
1ed IT.. There Was nothing Irregular, cer-
Mr. eB--The gentleman will note that
he President made the requIdtion long
sefoFe thlee-fonrths Of the States had ratified
he amendment
Mr. RI certainly have assumed moth
ng Of the kind I an very much sur.
.nythi1g Of the sort. I said nothing about
he action Of the President, except to state
he facts. raised no question n to his right,
'r as to the power Of Congress to impose any
lclon upon him. do not know that gave |
he gentleman from Ohio the slightest occa-
lion to assert here, with 50 much warmth as
ae has shown. the paramount power OF Con-
gress over the President. I raised no question
md made no remark on the subject.
Dir. R.-The gentleman has made the
emark here thai was trying to get up
n issue with the President, when he said that
replied, as might very properly do, that
Tas surprised that the gentleman should as-
une to speDE for the President
Mr.. RI did not assume, In any way what
.veE, anything Of the Kind.
Mr. B.-An1 I respectfully deny the gen.
tenants assertion that seek to make an
sst1e with the President.
Hefe The hammer Eall 1