Daily State sentinel. [volume] (Indianapolis, Ind.) 1861-1865, 1865-01-19

y - 'AAts Of tne CONSTITUTION oti4tNtl tnht
u u va adopted ~ ni1o states IRE practical Ct
feet would be to force the other four 70 adops il.
4 nave no doubt such vas the understanding OF
tne members Of the convention. and certainly
such ~as the practical effect OF il.
Mr fendleton. well, Mr.. Speaker, that j. =
most extraordinary proposition. IL might be
true that. IN the course Of time. and By the pow
Ct OF conquest, or by the moral in ~iuences which
a government composed OF niue states would
have ererted, he other states eepuld have been
persuaded % c0me into the union. bat deny
mat any one stare would have been bound by any
raubcatlon except that proceeding rom the state
itself The theory which Tie gentleman has ex-
planned 70 us inst POW, and which, a. contained
10 MS speech as printed IN The Globe. / honestly
thought IN my simplicity to be a misprint-this
theory explains what the gentleman means when
be tells u that the federal constitution does not
ciothe any Of the states viih tie attributes OF
sovereignty. OF course il does not. Nobody
ever pretended that il did.
Mr.. Stevens. Suppose that nine states had at
that time ratified the constitution, while the 9th
er four Gid not; would those other four have
been members of the unionl
Mr.. Pendleton. No sir.
Mr Stevens. So | say. Bot suppose that
three fOurths OF the states now ratify an amend
ment while the remaining FORTH do not, are the
states refusing to ratify still members OF the un-
isng
Mr. Pendleton. That will depend upon the
character Of the amendment, aud whsther Il Is
in pursuance of the authority granted.
Mr. Stevens If the amendment should be
adopted by three fourtbs of the states, while the
other fourth refuse to ratify It, DO the non-agree-
ing states 90 out OF the Union or remain IN 1t Z
Mr.. Pendle;on. II the amendment be without
the scope of the power granted. legally they re-
main in the Union. and other states go out.
Laughter
Nobody pretends that the states are clothed
with the powers of sovereignty by the federal
constitution Nor does that instruneat neces-
sarily strip them of the sovereign rights which
they had before the Constitution was made. The
states have sovereign powers TO -day except 50 far
as that constitution, by their voluntary act OF
adoption, has taken those powers from them
They do not derive power from the federal
government. 1t inberes in them, and | would
like to inquire of my colleague from the Toledo
district, Mr. Ashley ! il he denies the sovereign
ty in the states because they have agreed to sus-
pend, or, if you please. to delegate certain pow
ers o: sovereignty which would otherwise belong
to them, upon what basis can he pretend there il
sovereignty in the federal government, which has
not now and never had any authority except that
which Is expressly delegated 10 il by these states
themselves.
But, Mr.. Speaker. the gentleman from Ohio
Mr.. Ashley is led by his anxiety TO pass this
amendment into the declaration of another doe
trine. which although not entirely novel Is some
what new upon this floor. He holds to the doe
trlne that ordinances of secession destroy state
governments, but do not affect the relations of
the states. that is. of the territory and toe people
to the federal government. He holds that an act
of secession is an abdication by the people of
their rights but not a release from their duties:
that 1t destroys, not the tie which binds them 20
the Union, but their form OF government, leaving
the subject to the jurisdiction of the federal gov
eminent and its absolute sovereignty with all the
rights OF local government, and he deduces from
this the conclusion that the seeding states have
no voice on this amendment, but are absolutely
bound by 1t That doctrine was promulgated by
Il senator from Massachusetts Mr.. Sumner
nearly three years ago in a series Of resolutions
presented to the Senate, and my colleague will
remember that they met with no more indignant
response than from the honorable, able, learned,
and patriotic gentleman from Massachuse + Mr..
Thomas who then had a seat upon the floor IF
this House.
The gentleman from Ohio took the instance
of Florida. Florida, owned by the federal gov
eminent as a territory, brought up from a condi-
ton of infancy to that Of maturity is admitted into
the union. Shall we claim that Florida may on
the instant, by the passage OF an ordinance OF
secession, separate herself from this union and
deel re all her uni0n-lOviDg citizens traitors if
they adhere 70 the union? Does the gentleman
forget that he does not strengthen his argument
by citing the instance of "A state made out of ter
ritory which belonged to thcfederal government
When Florida became a state, she became Il
state with all of the powers and authorities. with
all of the rights. all of the digBities. all the SOW
e~reignty which Virginia herself had. Yet the
gentleman declares that such a state, admitted
into this compact by the act Of the federal gov
eminent and of the state itself. does not occupy
the position of the original states, but that it,
more than they, is RENTED by the act of seces-
sion to a condition of pupilage, and that its peo-
pie, more than Others. arc ooliged to obey the
constitution. in whose amendment they have no
vote, which three iourths of the states-states
represented here-may impose upon them.
Mr.. feaman, viii the gentleman Weld to
me for a moment?
Mr.. Pendleton. | will yield if | have time.
How much time have L?
The Speaker. Fifteen minutes.
Mr.. Pendleton. ! will yield to The gentleman
for a moment. He will see the necessity for be-
ing brief.
Mr.. Yeaman. If the constitution as an orr
sinal compact of government was binding only
upon those who did ratify It then | ask whether by
ratification they did not give the amending power
10 three fourths OF the states
Mr.. PendletOn. | have been endesvoring
for three quarters of an hour to answer that
question.
Mr.. Yeaman. What humber Of states can
amend the constitution
Mr.. Pendleton. In some particulars, where
the power is granted. three-fourths OF the states
can. In other particulars il cannot be done
except by the consent of all the states bound
by it.
Mr.. Yeaman. That brings me to the question
| wish 10 ask the gentleman, and that is, TO point
out specifically where the power 70 amend the
constitution il TO be found?
Mr.. PendletOn. The doctrine of the gentle
man from OHIO, Mr.. Ashley to which | have
just referred. is as large in is operation, though
l think hardly as logic or conclusive. a the po-
sition taken by the gentleman from Pennsylya-
MIA. Mr.. Stevens That gentleman is famous
more for a sledge hammer power OF logic than
for its scholastic accuracy.
He says that we are in a condition of war. and
that war absolves all cOmpacts. IL depriyes the
citizens OF seeding states of their rights under
the federal government, and abs0lves the federal
government and the people Ofthe %adhering states
from the obligations imposed by the constitution;
and therefore. he told Us, and with an emphasis
We could al understand, that no state should be
readmitted into the Union unless il came back
carved by the federal government out of terri
tory conquered BY the sword.
Now, | would ask the gentleman from Penn
sylvania Mr.. Stevens to be careful how he as
the maxim that what is broken in one thing is
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