New-York daily tribune., 1865-12-23
DEBATE BETWEEN MESSRS. RAY.
M0ND AND BINGHAM.
What the South is Bound to Conceds.
CONGRESS- AND TEE PRESIDENT.
spec's' Dispatch 10 The N. 2. Tribune.

The following is the prominent portion of the
coloquy e.socurriEg between Mess-s. Raymond aud
Bingham In the House yesterday;
Mr.. BIVGHAM--Tbo only practical point Of my inquiry
Is this Does the gentleman insist that South Carolina
has now the right under the Constitution to represent
alton in Congress State Of the Union because her
rotations 10 the Government are under the COnstitu
ion, those OF Constitutional State In the Uniont is
tha' the gentleman position, or is II noti
AR. RAihoSD-l have already said. sir and sald II as
clearly and eDpbaticnlly az eau that have right
10 demand and that We are in duty bound to demand
certain concessions fom all the States lately in rebel
lion parts Of their surrender ana conditions Of their
resuung their functions In the government OF the ma
ton. A. 70 their representation in Congress should,
before determining that question, wish 10 know some
thing more OF the character and position Of men they
nav fcnd aud what they have done.
Mr. BHGHAii-So do |, and l think that Congress
ough; 20 decide tbs question.
Mr. RAYNOND-I have not assumed 20 decide that
point have not said ANYTHING about what the South
ern States have done. l have simply said what we
have right TO require them to do, and the ronuncia'
oa a tho doctrine Of State Sovereignty is thing
that xe have right 10 require at their hands. We
have a night also 20 require them 10 60 another thingo
reVudate their obligation for debts incnrred IN carrying
on the against the Govcrumeni. This, an srre,
the gentleman coes not dispute or dogbt. Whether
tncy have done ibis or not Is another natter which
may up at another time. We have the right to
requlgc this reputation of their debt. because TIE
money represented by hat debt OF the weapons
NTH shich they carried the against the Gov.
cuncrt Of the United States.
slr BEGnAN--lf they should repna te that debt by
State legislation. by amendment o! the State Con
stut on. 90 rot care Ia what form they may do IT,
does not the gentleman see that the very next year
they nisht assume % pay that debt'
Mr.. I-CtriliGly they might.
Mr.. BSGH,M--Ihcn, if under the present condition
u things tLey aowcd to resume fall relations 20
The Onion, they might the very next year assume the
psym ut of that debt.
Mr.. B-Yory wcll. ! wnnt ;he American poop'e 70
understood tins Issue and - have the Opportunity 10
say by amendment Of The United States Constitution
whether that power shall not be expressly denied TO
oyefy state " the CA!Ou.
Nr. RI DO not thiuk,the American people are at
al liable ~ forget tho fact ,,-,,
remark the gcnonan that we slOu.d require tho>
Sisies simply TO repadstc lhht debt.
Ar. RI do net think they possibly could because
that docs ipiy anything about the poseFof those
States hereafter. i nm simply speaking Of what 1e
have the right to REQUIRE them TO do There another
thing which hove tic riclt 10 require, and Tat is
The prohibition Of Savery We have the right to re-
Qure them do this ONLY n their State Constitu
ioD but an the Constitution OF Tie United Soies Hnd
We have required b. aud II has teen conceded. Ih.y
have also conceded that Cousf q nav MAKE such
laws as may BE- requisite 10 cary that prohibition n'0
effect which includes such legislation ~ may be re.
dured TO for them the rejection Of their civi
and lsoull iightsthrir night 20 life. liberty and the
pursuit OF happiness. The, am sure. the gentleman
will cuncede 10 ba substantial guarantee one placed
bovond the power Ofany State 20 recall or repeal These
things the Preside o the United states has deemed
il hi, right as COmmandeTin C,ef OF the armies Of the
United Stace TO demand at the hands Of the states
which have hcen defeated in teir attempt 10 separate
themselves from the Urlon ~ The condition Of relaxing
the bands OF mi tnry authority over them and restoring
to them again control Of their local fate affairs he
made these the the conditions upon which they would
be allowed. 70 far bis righuul authority
cltcndetO the practical exercise Of their func'
tipns as members Of the Union. which had been sus
pended by their rebellion. lie has done this In the ex
ercise OF bis lawful authority as Commander IN Cher
Of the Army Of the United STATES and was therefore
responsible Jr tie complete suppression OF the Rebellion
AMI the restoration Of peace order and ioyaty IN the
regions where they have boen for time dis
tufbed and Ovcrthrown-be hes done IL through
agents exercising a delegated and just author
iiy acting hs behalf and in his name. Just as his
military generals prescibcd the terms and conditions
of the Rebel surrender in the hed aud the fac that
these concessions have been granted. affords az
least fair presumption that those who MAKE
them intend hereafter IN good iaith to ABIDE
duties imposed by he Constitution and laws OF
the United States Il may possibly DO wise ior us TO
dismiss all these concessions and all these guarantees
given by eight millions OF people. and sanctioned by
the most solemn forms Of legislation rs utterly worth
less and ilsincore; bat that Is mater upon winch
each individual must exercise his own discretion
upon his own responsibility' Mf' spaainr
the gentleman from New-York, has st9.ed
mat it is right and reasonable. the ~emand
should he made Of the late Rebel states, That they
should assent 20 amendment 10 the Coy.lu.tion pro-
hibng Slavery in the Union, and also that IL is right
and reasonable lhorld require sha they should
pudiatc all debts contracted Ii support II the Rebel
lion. Now ask the gent enan whe ther thero l. any
limit 70 the right make these r5qu.sions except the
good Judgment q! COnsfe-sf
Mr. RAiNoND-I think there IL.
Mr. SrALDIr0-I ask what liiGit, 20 that we may
doisand ana where Goes belong; who has the power
10 alix that limit
Dir. R-My impression Is that these acquisitions arc
name part 0f the terms Of the surrender We have a
right to demand at the hands of the defeated insUr
GENTS and that belongs therefore TO the President az
Commander in.Chicf Of the Army and Navy OF tho
United States 10 make them and to K the limit as TO
wlnt they shall embrace.
Mr. BlNGHAM-In regard 10 that Constitutional
amendment without Congress Loving first IN tue mat
Ter and without their action. he would never have bad
he power ut oil to demand it's ratification by any rebel
State -
MIR R-Certainly there are many things which
could not be done by The President without the action
of Congiess.
Mr. G-Congress Is now making further provision
that an amendment shall be made TO the Constitution
that no State shall pay any part of the rebel debt
Mr. R-Thc gentleman IL aware that 1t was not Con-
r "A but the President who required the Rebel states
u ratfy the constitutional Amendment as a condition
| tie resumption of their funeIions
Mr B.-I beg the gentemans pardoni this Is an i'm.
nortant question and beg leave to say that he would
I bold man who would dare to say that after the loyal
States bad maintained the supremacy OF their Constitu'
ton and more than tbrceOurths OF all tho loyal States
bad 80 amended their Constitution that their action
was void without the consent OF the Rebel States and
aner their Rebellion had boon suhdued by arms the
States m rebellion might not only repudinte the amend.
msnf but Of rght might come into Congress TO resist
tLe endorsements OF its humane provisions by just
and necGful laws ii not within the
power Of the President any other on this earth
rightfuy 10 assert any such authority or power IN inc
Rebel States over the action of the loyal people OF
twensy.two out OF the twentyh hge Loyal States. The
President never said so. and never meant 10 say So
Mr. R.-Wel Mr. Chairman. ~ the gentleman con-
siders tho President has not said II
Mr. BISGHAM--No; and he could not say IT.
Ny. RAYMoSD-I DO not know that he ever proposed
or wished to sey il.
Mr.. BINGnAM-N0; but then there was nothIng III
the gentieman's remark.
Mr.. RAYsoSD-I understand that the Government
through the cha1nel designated by law the Secretary