The New York herald., 1865-02-18
COUNT JOAHHES Tvs. HORACE GREELEY
THE CONTEST ENDED.

~S~~>~~~>~>~~>~~>~~~-~-~~
THE COUNT DEFEATED,
&C., &c., &s.
Court Of Common Pleas.
Before Judge DAILY.
Fn lL--George the Count Joowaes Horace Greeley
The trial Of this cause resumed to-day at the usual
hour The Count, a. usual the observed Of all OBJ
servers" He was in the best possible humor, and, by
way Of change attired in suit Of black with
spoess vest buttoned close up TO the chin In fact We
never saw him looking better Before the introduction
OF the the defence the Count begged leave to
correct the report Of the proceedings which appeared In
one of the morning newspapers II stated that he
pronounced the testimony OF Dr. ILeber to be lie. He
had reference 70 the evidence Count Gurowsk and not
10 that OF Dr. Leber for whom he had the highest re-
spect .dl4a.Esngty asl 1ge atL " E8tH
PROFESSOR LIEBER ON TITLES OF NOBILITY.
Francis Lieber Professor Of History and Political
@ What Is your occupation now are you expert in
matters Of European nobility
Count Joannes.I object 70 the question; 4 is leading
0ne and besides the witness has not proved to be an
pert yet
Mr. williams-wel will alter the question in order
to avoid any discussion. wish TO inquire about the
Order of the Knights of the Golden Spur Speak of the
which conferred that Order and in what countries
was conerred A The Order Of the Golden Spur y an
person would be authorized to confer that Order ex
cept sovereign
Q. Who would confer that Order in Italys A. The
Pope
O. Are you that this Order was ever conferred
upon any person except Roman Cathocs A. / am per
fccty the Order conferred upon
except Roman Catholic; the Pope would certainly
have conferred the order upon Protestant; he
may have conferred private marks OF distinction on
persons who not Roman Catholics, but would not
have knghted any one who was not Of his own faith.
O. DO you think it probable that the Order con-
ferred upon the plaintiff in this cases A. 1t would be in
contradiction to all usage in matters Of nobility.
Count Joannes-I dispute the allegation, and shall
show the witness he il mistaken presently.
Judge DAILY suggested that the Count was slightly out
of order
A. There privileges connected with II that am
aware Of
the Count PalatineS A. Counts Palatne were men Of
high dignity in the German empire the title meant
to indicate near relation TO the Emperor; none have
been created for several centuries.
O. BY whom was the title conferreds A. Always ex-
clusivey by the Emperor the idea Of the plaintiff being
Count Palatine was contrary to common sense and
history.
il is claimed here that Count sarario while In
London in 1S47, conferred the title of Count Palane
upon the plaintiff in this case-had he any authority to
so and the title alleged to be SO conferred legas
A. Mo- it is contrary to common sense to suppose that he
Mr. Wilams-Look at this piece OF Latin in the Boston
Aduutsa and say what it means2
Count Joannes-I object to anything from the Ad-
Mr. Williams-well produce the original; you have IT,
and notified to produce 1t. .
Judge Daly-Yes; you should nave produoeo 'no
Count Joannes-If you say so will produce it imme
diately; but thought might Introduce u a. another
time Here 1t is (handng the paper to the wness) and
now 1 command you to translate that II you can Com
mence, sir
Judge Day-The witness Is with the other SIDE,
Count. t.N
Mr. wiiams-Examne that document, and speak
with reference to its validity.
Count Joannes-I object. He should translate 1t hrs
and give his opinion afterwards.
Judge Daily again suggested that the witness with
he oth and Count would have clanC0
to examine him when the direct was concluded
Count Joannest is not TO be supposed that any one,
however learned could give an opinion on the subject
without transating the document 1rst II he was as
learned as Socrates he could not do il.
Mr.. Wlams-I will waive the question Tor the pre-.
Count Joannes-I want 70 know whether the witness
acquainted with the family of Sartaro and whether
he examined the archives Of Bologna? A. No, SIR
Q. Are you acquainted with the nobility Of Italyf A.
do not know what you mean by the history Of nobility
O. Are you practically acquainted with the powers OF
the nobility Of IalyS A. don't know what you mean
by being practically acquainted with the history and
powers Of the nobility history Il past and don't know
how can be practically acquainted with It, uAughtcr)
Q. Are you acquainted with the noble house Of sar.
O. DO you know whether they had the power to be-
stow the title OF Count PalatneS A. know that no
such house has the powers nowhere and never was the
title OF Count Paatne bestowed upon any one with the
power to bestow it again
Count Jonnnes-I viii show you that the power was
conferred upon count, To my certain knowledge;
Prince walcnstcn, believe, had the power to bcstow
the title Of count upon persons worthy OF the honor
Pro essor LiebcrHis case was single exception, ana
he only had the power Of creating less dgnaries than
himself would like 10 know the case where one count
ablc to create another.
Count Joannes-I shall show you. The work Of John
Seldom which the permission Of the Court to get
from the Astor Library, will establish the fact had
II on the trial in boston and It had more weight with the
jury than all the Dutchmen they could produce Augh-
DR.. Iicber-I hope the Court will protect the witness
Judge DAILY rebukcd the Count, and said he must not
caSt any reflections upon the witness nativity.
Count JoannesI certainly meant no dsrespec 70 tho
gentleman but will your Honor send for John Selden.
Judge DayI don't think IT is ut the Astor Library;
you will lind 1t in book store in Fulton street, think
Count Joannes-0h, no, It Is in the Astor Library;
saw few days ago and made note OF It for this case
Redirect-Q Will you speak Of the pow,r of comforting
the order of knghtho by the governments of Europe
What been the custom for the last twenty years.
Eycrywhere the power of creating nobility is with the
eren nowhere, in modern times, does the constitu
tior of any government give the power Of coneng my
title Of nobility any other than the sovereign nobility
is always onnected with sovereignty, and cannot 10 con
ferred except by a sovereign
Cross examiDed--if the Prussian government had
issued passport you Co.t Lcber would IL not be
evidence o. your rankf A. NO, certainly not II
upon applying for passport should say was the En-
pcror OF China the government would put u down 80.
Uaughtcr)
O. 10 you mean to say that n you we're known as Dr
Lcbcr and choose call yourself Emperor o China that
YOU would be announced In the passport IA such, and
would be allowed to travel all over the Continent with
string OF mandarins AZ your bacsS A. mean to say that
passport Is evidence OF rank or real condition IN
life: the police possibly get the time TO fnyest
gate the titles Of all those who apply for passports
"
recolect the fact the American Ambassador at Paris
giving Professor Morse a passport in which he was
spoken Of the Chevalier Morse was that evidence
worth no,bngs A. All can say is that the American
Ambassador knew very little about his business when he
designated Professor Morse as chcvaer the title is
not recognized In this country and the ambassador
should not have inserted II in the passport
Count Joanncs--I will show you to the contrary pre-
sently Here my passport signed by Minister Mason,
now deceased, in which am described AZ count
Professor Lciber-Upon examining the document l
should say that Mr. Mason did not know much about such
t.un rta rtyad llu
"Count Chevaer,n &c There Is quite difference be-
tween count and chevalier the latter being much
lower order than the first -
q what do you know Of Knighthood' is II nobility
A. don't know what you mean by nobility
Count Joannes-Then will enlighten YOU knight-
hood is not nobility, because IL dies with iH possessor
Nobility Is hereditary and desccnds to my son-o your
Professor Leiber-You greatly mistaken There 10
hereditary nobility.
Count Joanncs-Do you suppose cardinal would give
letter Of Introduction TO the Archbishop o pafis
4 unfQ A cau