The New York herald., 1865-03-11
The Opposing Delegations
Face to Face.
The Great Unpaid Versus Great
Capital.
SPICY CLOSE TO THE DEBATE
THE MATTER REFERRED TO THE ASSEMBLY,
&C., Sc. SC.

The consideration Of the Senate Fire Department bin
and the Fremanis Ordinance was resumed on We'd
nesday by the House Committee Cities TO whom the
whole subject has been reerrcd-the committee meet
iSg according to adjournment at half three O'Clock
The well filed by the New York delega-
tons supporters OF other Of the measures, and
all exhibiting strong interest in the proceedings The
debate Of yesterday was resumed by
MR.. LAWRENCE IN CONTINUATION.
Mr. Lawrence resumed bis argument by calling the at
tention of the committee to evil of the present sys
tenn Of the Fire Department. striking and dangerous
that he had but to refer awaken attention it.
1t was that the department is present constituted
its members might dsband at the first moment OF real
peril and danger the city, and there power to
compel thsn TO the performance Of their voluntarily un
deraken duties. II the committee would look at the
statutes ordinances OF the Corporation Of the city o
New York, under which the Fire Department was or
ganzed the charter Of the city under which 1t was
carried on they would find that this statement was not
too broad too comprehensive. For this remedy
must be found if for no other ev whatever The idea
that New York city, OF the great commercial centres
of the word-the metropolis Of the commerce and
wealth OF the United Sates-should be sub
jected to any such risk that, is fact
mot only astonishing but IL Is apang He would briefly
another evil OF the SYSTEM already commented
upon-the practice OF "bunking" practice most de-
uoalizing in its tendency, aording the younger mem
bes Of the department the opportunity Of absenting
themselves from their homes, freeing them from all
parental restraint and giving them full license to
ciate with men older than themselves and with
perence the vices Of the world and thus remaining,
night after night day after day. and week after week. in
these engine houses practice disastrous in the extreme.
He not indulging in speculation nor in fancod
sketches but by the book and the printed official
~ nf fha
Other great commercial cities in the country modelled
Their departments after that Of New York. but which,
after having given II trial, changed the system to
paid system and it is because Of the great benefits
cured TO these cities by the change that the citizens Of
New York como before the Legislature and ask
for the passage Of a bill 10 secure 10 them the
like benefits, and to be relieved from the evils
and perils Of the present system II is impossible
sist the conclusions be drawn from the reports of the
authorities Of Cincinnati Baltimore, st. LOUIS Philade-
pha and Boston, OF the advantages arising from paid
fire dePsrtmentsawhy, then, in the name Of Heaven
cities have shown to be utterly useless for the purposes
for which il designedf 1t well enough to
speak Of old institution approvingy because IL had
been useful but when proved beyond all doubt
shat has outgrown it's usefulness appreciation becomes
useless The history Of this ordinance Is important to
consider II was well understood the time that
movement had been made TO rid New York OF the evils
OF this voluntary system TWAS well understood in the
councils Of the ~Nremen that the time had come
when something must be done to palliate the evils
IN their system, or the good sense of the Lcgis-
Iature would abolish the department This ord-
nance extorted from them It extorted from the
Common Council by the fact that the known evils Of the
present system had become garng and noerabe that
they could onger be endured and this they thought
would be panacea for all the evils Of the system
certain periodical, which started some time ago IN New
York sentenously styled itself The Journal oj Cuild
f0n But another paper In the city remarked that the
good things in IL we're not new and the new things we're
not good The criticism applied to this ordinances
the good things u were not new ana the new things
were not good We willing TO let the two bills go
careful perisal OF viii show that
radical change and provides radical cure for old dis
ease, and that the other is simply palliative, tempo
expedent to get rd OF an existing difficulty IL the
bill Iassed by the should meet til the approba-
ton OF the Assembly, and il should become law, the
same good results would follow from IL that had been
perenced in other cities by ike change of the system
OF the Dre departments reduction OF the rate
cf insurance upon properly of al !east twentyhre
the advocate OF the Citizens Association but FOR certain
citizens Of New York largely interested in property and
in the good government and well being OF the city He
appeared as democrat TO urge the passage o. the enae
bill, not party measure but Us he belize cd II well
calculated 70 secure great ad antages p the city Who
arc the men that support the senate hl and Who these
in favor OF the ordnance The passage of tho Senate
bill is urged by petitions from bankers insurance com
panias, merchants and capitalists, representing over
hundred millions Of dollars in the city OF Nsw York.
The whole press Of The city, with few obscure
ceptOns are IN favor OF IT, And yet gentlemen here
called an innoratlon which trenches upon some Of
their vested rghts-a something not TO be tolerated or
endured The press demands the change the people de-
mand IL, The wealth and capital OF the city demand it,
all who have properly exposed TO conagraton demand
it-and glance u the petition will STOW that oven the
poor deman IT, And who are those opposed 20 ~
The foremen Of the department even chaltn nge that
Where the rank ami lie Of the volunteer fire
department? Fave you sen them hcrof They
did not appear 10 oppose the til when II was
before ihe Senate. and they moi here To be
sure, there are certain officials rrcsentgentlcmen o.
position, who enjoy cmolumens and patronage-they
only here u sustain and bolster up this unpaid hre
department. But the rank and file are not here. And
when these paid officials and those who derive influence
volunteers, 10 this thing from good feeling, and
are actuated by pure and patriotic motives !" have
right 20 challenge them and to tell them that do
want them TO make this sacrifice any onger-wc prefer
TO dispense with volunteer services rcnd red in such
cause altogether and "a rcmunerate the men who risk
much for the preservation Of life and property and
you have no right 10 thrust your unsskcdor aud unde
sred services upon II Is but the part Of mtnlncss
and dignity tha, they should retire Bu instead Of that
they present remembrance against the bill But who
are those that remonsiraic by pe,ition' The circle
revolving round the volunteer IRE departmcnt-Iar
ucularly those revolving round the pad and nhu.
enal members Of II; and the very best evid OF tie
ineicicncy the department is in the fact that
the Of such these arc TO be found
signed 70 the petition say ia all candor after careful
perusal and study OF the bill and afteT examining the
ord nance and the other ordinances from which it has
been copied and which have been found Intellectual for
the purpose designed believe that bill has ever
been presented to the Legislature franght with greater
considerations with greater results to the city oi New
York, than Tie Senate o now ,enaer TO you as rana
cea for the evils Suffered by the whole community and
which hope-as one interested IN the passage Of the
bill not because have b. asked 10 speak in favor of
IT. nut a. citzen-I hope will pass. With these re-
marks submit the case 10 tile consideration OF tho com
mittce.
FREE DISCUSSION.
Tho Chairman having decided that interruptions
should be pressed apon counsel while addressing the
commit tee but, u The close, tha, gentlemen might then
ak questions with reference 10 any OF the points pre-
sened, Mr. Lawrence said he would Willingly answer
any questions pat 70 him bearing tho subject
Mr. Decker tCh.ef Engineer ~ the Fire Deparfnentl
addressing-Hs would like 70 know how loug he nir.
Lawfence) had been q arcmanY
Mr iawrencc--I have never had the honor of being
fireman. but have lived thirty ythree years in the cv
and twenty-seven years the house with fair Oh
portunitics Of observirg-wth what amount of ntc.
genCe cogld command, and with experience In many
suits II which have defended the city, and u from
that observation and that experience now speak In sup
port oi the nate hili and against the ordinance.
Mr. sodgwick inquired whether the amount q pre-.
hurancc companips7
81 lawtnee-I cannot give the gentleman the inior-
NATION be seeks
Nr Scdgwick-May | ask II the insurance companies
OF NV YORK lave rc apparatus under their control