Cleveland morning leader. [volume] (Cleveland [Ohio]) 1854-1865, 1864-08-20

for the people to come upon the platform
and talk with the lecturer This gives
him an excellent opportunity of learning
public sentiments. Last winter lectured
before nearly hundred of such associa-
tions, all over he North,-Rnd from Du-
buque to Bangor,-and took pains to as
eerfair the feelingssof the people. found
a rnanim0ils determination to crush the |
rel 8 i, and save the Union at every sac
rifce The majority are in favor of MIR |
Lincoln, and nearly all of those opposed |
to him are opposed to him because he does |
not fight you with enough vigor. The |
radical Republicans, who go for slave
suffrage and thorough eonfscation, are those |
who will defeat him if he is defeated. |
But if he is defeated pefore the people, the
House will elect aworse man--wOrse 1
mean for you. 1t is more radical than he
ls-you can see that from Mr.. Ashley's
reconstruction bill,-and the people are
more radical than the House. Mr., Lin
coin, know, is about to call out five
hundred thousand more men, and, don't
see how you can resist much longer; but
if you do yOu will only deepen the radi
cal feeling of the Northern people. They
would now give you fair, honorable, gener-
Gus terms; but let them suffer much more
let there be dead man in every house
as there is now in every village, and
they will give you no terms,-they will
insist on hanging every rebel south Of
Pardon my terms. mean no offence"
"You give no offence" he replied, smil-
ing very pleasantly. Il wouldn't have YOU
pick your words This is frank, free talk
and I like you the better for saying what
you think Go on" T.
I was merely going to add, ll that at let the
they do not feel it yet-and they will insist
on hanging every one of your leaders"
"Well, admitting all you say, 1 can't see
how it affects our position, There are
some things worse than hanging or exter-
mination. We reckon giving up the right
of selfgovernment one of those things.
"By self-gOvernment you mean disunion
Southern Independence."j
Eyes"
"And slavery, you say, is no longer an
element in the contest p
"No, tis not. 1t never was an essential
element. 1t was only means Of bringing
other conflicting elements to an earlier cul-
mination. 1t fired the musket which was
already capped and loaded. There are es-
sential differences between the North and
South, that will, however this war may
end, make them two nations
"You ask me to say what I think.
Will you allow me to say that know the
South pretty well, and never observed
those differences" .-
Then you have not used your eyes.
My sight is poorer than yours, but 1 have
seen them for years"
Tho laugh was upon me, and Mr.. Ben
1 jamin enjoyed it.
iFEyoH, Sir, be that as it may, if 1 under
stand you, the dispute between your gov
ernment and ours is narrowed down to
this Union or Disunion.n
"Yes; or, to put it in other words, Inde-
pendence or suGjugation." . .I-
"Then the two governments arc irrecon-
ilably Apart-s They have no alternative
but to fight it out But, it is not so with
the people. They are tired of fighting and
want peacei and, as they bear ali the bur
den and suffering of the war, is it not
right they should have peace, and have it
onsuch terms as they liteP
II don't understand you; be a little
more explicit . ..
"WeH, Suppose the two governments
should agreo to something like this: To 90
to the people with two propositions; say;
Peace with Disunion and Southern Inde-
pendenee, as your proposition, and, Peace
with Uhien, Emancipation, no Confisca-
ton, and Universal Amnesty as ours. Let
the citizens of the United States Cas they
aNi1tad hatiara tho war -r-4~ i----s -VU,
on these two propositions at a special
election within sixty days If a'maioritv
vote Dsunion, our government to be bound
by IT. and let yon go in peace. The two
governments can contract in this Wav. and
the people, though constitutionauy unable
to decide ON peace or war, can elect which
Of any two propositions shall govern their
rulers. Let Lee and Grant, meanwhile
agree to an armistice. This would sheatbe
the sword; and, if once sheathed, it would
never again be drawn by this generationu |
"Ihe plan is altogether impracticable-
If the South were only one State it might |
work; but, as it is, if one Southern State |
objects to emancipation, it would nullify |
tho whole thing, for you are aware the |
people OF Virginia oannot vote slavery out
Of South Carolina, or the people of South
Carolina vote it out of Virginia"
But three-fourths Of the States can
amend the Constitution. Let it be done in
hat way-iR arg way, so that it be done bv
ne people | am not a statesman or a
and l do not Just know how such
plan could be carried out; but YOU get
ne idea-that tho people shall decide the
.EThat the majority shall decide it YOU
mean. We seeded to rid ourselves of the
ule of the majority, and this would sub
ect us to it again" ai.
"But the majority must rule finally
Sher with bullets or ballots"
Il am not so sure of that. Neither our-
ent events nor history shows that the ma
1rity rules, or ever did rule. The con- !
rary, think, is true. Why sir, the man !
Tho shall go before the Southern people
nth such roposition-with am propo- I
tion which implied that the North was to ]
ave voice in determining the domestic
elatiOns of the South-could not live here I
dayl He would be hanged to the first
zee, without judge or jury"
Allow me to doubt that. l tbinl, If II
lore likely he would be hanged if he LET
10 Southern people know the majority v
'uld not rule" l replied, smiling. B
I" have no fear of that reioined Mr.. t
avs, also smiling most good-humoredIy.
l give you leave to proclaim it from =
'ery house-top in the South" N
: But, seriously, sir, you let the majority y
lie IN single State; why not let It rule y
the whole country" .
Because the States are indenen5ant n,
d sovereign. The country is not. It is Al
ily a confederation Of States; or rather IT
.ozsj 1t is now ta7o confederations.D Jo
" Then we are not a people-we are onIv
political partnership :"
" That is all" =
" our very name, sir United States
plies that, said Mr.. Benjamin. "But =
], are the terms you have enamed-Eman- =
yAtiOn No Don nGaoaf;or - = | u