The Pacific commercial advertiser. [volume] (Honolulu, Hawaiian Islands) 1856-1888, 1864-08-13
PACIFIC
Commercial Advertiser.
SATURDAY Y, AUGUST IL.
Proceedings of the Constitutional
Convention.
Twenty-First Day.

THURSDAY, August 4th, 1864.
" Convention met at IL A. NJ, and was opened with
the usual proceedings.
Article 4l.t was read. and in reply to a question,
the Attorney General stated that the words - in such
manner as he may direct" meant TO give the King
power to divide the Privy Council into appropriate
Committees
DIR. Judd said that il was not clear that it meant
that.
Judge Robertson remarked that the Article deter
mined the duties OF the Priyy Council, so that here
sitter the frequent discussions as TO their powers
would cease. Tney ha1 duties assigned them now by
various articles already passed, as Article 9th gave
them power To consider petitions for pardon and IN
the matter Of the importation Of Asiaric labOrers. n
Committee might be appointed 10 assist the Minister
q the Interior, and thus assist the King in admins
tering the executive affairs of his Kingdom.
Ills TX. K c. Wyllie thought that the clause mere
IL gave the King power to divide the PriVy Council
into Committees, and he should have the power, as
there were many matters Of such a nature that it
would be q mere waste Of time to put before the
whole Privy Council, as some questions Of iuterna-
tiouaI Law, which but few could understand. In
Eagland the Privy Council consisted Of $50 members,
and no one attends unless specially summoned.
MIR. Knudseu said that IL seemed, then. that the
Priyy Council were TO be made officers Of Govern
uent-assistants Of the King and Ministers if go,
they might make demands for pay at some future
time.
The Minister Of Finance said that be advocated
the division Of the Privy Council into Committees,
aud he would like to have them for each department
OF the Government. Their position in Society would
forbid their ever asking for pay.
MIR. Green said they might ask for pay and justly.
The Mobiles once asked for it, The Government Off
GERS are not 80 overburdened with work as 10 make
IL necessary to share their labOrs with the Privy
Council.
Minister Of Finance said he never wished to throw
on any Of his labOrs upon them, only to ask their
al Viee.
Mr.. Green said he had not charged the Ministry
with doing this, for they could not throw any respon-
sibiity upon the Privy Council. by the Constitution
of 1852, and he wished to prevent it in the future
DIR. Judd moved 20 substitute the words - Minis
te-isl Committees for the word g manner which
amendment with the article passed the Two Estates.
Article AZ was read. and Judge Robertson propos-
ed an amendment, inserting the words - and they
shall be ex~-oficio members of His Majesty's Privy
Council Of State"-after the words . special advisers
of the Kingdom which passed.
DIR. Judd moved an amendment taken from the
Constitution of Belgium" No act of the King can
have effect unless it be countersigned by a Minister,
who, by that only, makes himself responsible''-
Thich also passed, and the article thus amended also
passed.
Article 43d was read. ID. III. Hitchcock said that
q very important change was here contemplated
the sitting Of two Of the Ministers in the Lower
House, and he moved TO strike out all that part of
section granting this and 10 insert the words of the
Constitution of 1852.
A,essrs. knudsen and Dowsett favored this article
as il was, as business would be greatly facilitated.
By having some of the Ministry present who could
ans yer the frequent enquiries and explain the wishes
of he Government.
His Ex. r. C. wyllie said that was very necessary,
that at least the Minister of Finance should have a
seat IN the Lower House.
Nr Green said that the Representatives did not
wish expert debaters and men OF persuasion among
then from the Ministry to advocate Government
measures The three Estates should be kept separate
in their deliberations. The Mobiles would not like to
have Representatives SIT with and instruct them, nor
shoald the Representatives have Mobiles among them.
Kng wing how easily natives are influenced, he
thoagbt that special pleading in favor of ministerial
measures would be dangerous. In 1860 a Bill was
presented to the Lower House, in the handwriting
OF the Minister of Finance, for the influence which
this silent testimony would have in showing the Rep
resenratives that the Ministry wished it, and it had
its effect.
Minister Of Finance said. this is insisted upon. in
almost all governments, as a concession from the King
of the dignity of the Lower House. Is it not fair
and logical that the Minis er should sit where his
services are most needed; He had some finance bills
to propose to the next Legislature, would it be safe
or proper to trust their advocacy to friends Let the
influence Of the Ministry be openly applied, let all
measures go on their own merits no man will be
persuaded against his convictions of right.
. Mf%Ukeke said. that the Lower House wanted no
scho llmastersa among them. or what assistance were
the Ministry in his Convention ?-they only protract-
ed detates. The Ministry will be so many rat-traps
for Tire Representatives. The Constitution already
prov led a place where the Ministry could display
their Iearning-the Cabinet Council. If the matter
is reciprocal, then let the Representatives sit in the ,
Cabinet Council. SIX among the Mobiles, aud two with
the King, perbaps.-he opposed the article utterly.
NJ 4. H Judd moved an amendment inserting
che sords . which pertain TO the ministerial depart
menss." after the word '' questions
NJ. knudsen, also moved an amendment" In
case u vote o: want of confidence in the Ministry
be passed by the House of representatives, the Min
istry must resign or the Legislature must be dis
solved"
Judge Robertson said he had served in the House
Of Representatives from 1851 TO 1859, and was con-
WINGED that it would be a good provision TO have
some of the Ministry sit in the Lower House. The
Ministers were servants of the People, as we'll az of
the Mobiles and the King. What harm could there be
in their debating and advocating measures ?-the
more light they could throw on questions the better
for tie people, who had a right TO their services and
assistance.
Mr.. Hitchccck's and Mr.. Knuisen's amendments
were then put and lost; Mr.. Judd's was carried and
also she article.
Articles 44th to 55th inclusive were then read
and passed the two Estates, and the Convention adj
journed-
Twenty Second Day.
FRIDAY, August 9Th, 1864.
The Convention met as usual
Mr.. Martin proposed 10 insert in Article Seth,
providing for pay Of Representatives, the words
80 $3.50 in place of the words :. no other recon-
pense."
The Minister Of Finance thought that this fixed
amouat had better not be put into the Constitution,
where it could not be easily changed.
DIR judd though, thst the Article looked towards
deprising representatives OF pay altogether, which
he WIS opposed to.
Mr.. wans said that If g d<ed sum for each session
was determined upon as pay for Representatives,
they sould be apt TO hurry through and slight their
work, and preferred that the pay should be per diem.
ID. Il. Hitchcock said that under the present sys-
ten Of daily pay, the Representatives have frequently
had sessions OF only an hour. long, AID have pro-
lOngsl the sessions for the sake of the pay they we're
receiving.
Hon. G. ~ Robertson moved to have the Article
read - follows:
Tie members Of The Housa cf Representatives shall receive