New-York daily tribune. [volume] (New-York [N.Y.]) 1842-1866, 1863-12-19
qurcd as an extension Of courtesy toward the Senator


IN e civil naval military departments before enter
irg upon their duties to take the prescribed OATH
airing that they have Voluntarily borne arms
' the uId ass nor gSsn s fd %c
lmbull then argued to show that the law was appca
biz TO Senators and Representatives. As neatly oil the
iaors had taken and subscribed the oath Oh aileg
q ire whether the oath properly embraced Senators
did the Toonbses and Davises TO come here
ard MFR swearing to support the Constitution. to take
us.r seats and then pcrjure themselves lie claimed
H., right to say they should. with his consent
have seats In this body lie would require Senators 70
tai ii prescribed oath that they had not been engaged
in Reeion and II they committed perjury. he would
eon' ct them under the statute.
| Mr.. SUMNER said the question was whether the rule
proposed should BIZ referred to the Committee on the
Judiciary. The reasons assigned for the proposed
reference were two viz: Whether the act which the
rule proposed 10 carry out unconstitutional. and,
nssrinng IL 10 be constitutional whether 1t was app
cable to Senator's He doubted whether there was
single Senator who needed light on this subject any
one having particle Of doubt He knew some Sena-
had made mp their minds that 1t WINS not const
tn,.ona and applicable; while others entertained dif
ferent opinion. or what would II De To refer the
question 10 the Committee on the Judiciary Every
Senator was AZ competent to decide now as atei
the Committee should report. II this rule vas not
perfectly simple then there might be occasion Tor refer
ence to remove doubt Senators could not forget that
the blu amply discussed nj former session Ihere
had not been an objection started to-day that WINS not
then answered and ece Of these objections the oath
FIRST taken by the Chair and by him administered
20 the Senators Every minute the senate delayed ID
doubts this question injurious 10 the pest INTER
er. Of the country. IL belonged 10 the Senate 10 set
an example Of patriotism BY taking the oath "itboal
hesitation.
make report Of the entire subject the entire subject
would have 10 be gone over anew. III they wanted 20
refer tie rule they must reject the SUBSTITUTE u' ne
ooud not any good result IN referring Inc rue by
this they would gain nothing
Mr. B.YARD Diem. Dell remarked that tie ordinary
course refer grave questions although Senators
-. st.Nu al a.
fore IL was Idle 10 refer. Tie Law passed July p
1902 at the List session Of the Senate. Messrs Field
and Wall of New'Jer,ey. and Arnold OF Rhode Island;
all took their scats without reference Ia the law. and
held them without word from any Senator until the
end Of their respective terms. At The organization o
tho present session the Senators were sworn 70 support
the Constitution and admitted 10 their seats without
reference "a the Law. When the question was first
raised he made motion 10 postpone s consideration
ng its gravity nom the LiTa Session uDti! now
e had right TO take for granted that the decision
had ben waived three Senators having remained
here without taking tie oath unu ther
terms expired II could rot be that the Senators have
made ap their minds. lie unwilling, without
decision Of tho Senate 10 voluntarily take the oath
Ills pas, in LIE and conduct ought TO be sufficient to
protect him from suspicion. Barring bis view IS 10 the
DANGEROUS unconstituiiosy Of the laws, lie could 40
readily take the oath any member Of the senate He
nainiancd that IL had been decided that senator Is
NOT civil hceeunder tke Constitution.
Al NcpoUGALL Ddm., Cali could see no reason
Why the senate should rsfnse To refer He was Of opn-
ion u would work very sel 20 have the Committee re-
port on the subject
Mr. rowrrI tDem w said that the senator from
Nassae huseus had indicated that every senator had
mad. up his own mind but be 0owelD had looked into
tie question and clearly u The opinion that the Law
II is,2 did not embrace Senators. Others lad formed
drrent opinion. that wac no reason Why the senate
should refuse investigation az subject of such grave
Importance lie believe he could male 1, appear that
TIE Law did embrace Senators under the language u
The -s,ifution aud supported by the learned
couIts Il sies and which principle vas soemfly adj
judged by the snaic itself a. al early period OF rs bis
Mr. susarR suggested the Judgment OF civil officers
for the purpose u impeachment
Mr. PovIfI- resulting said he was merely indicating
what he believed investigation would deveyeop and
referred 81 the case NJ Mr.. Blunt
Mr. SALISBURY dem. DELI explained. U3desiEed
the entire subject ~ be referred.
Mr.. fowELL thought the Senator IRON Massachusetts
rimeni could rosul, b. reference.
Mr. Tts Erck ON, " j. said no earthly good could
arise By reference. This very question had heretofore
been raised before the Judiciary Committee 40 10
whether Senator's we're civil officers. He thought they
were at that divided and had no doubt that their
onnions remained the same rs two years ago IL was
namiited on all hands. let The Committee report a. II
might IL must lead 10 M extended discussion. There
was possibility of great public harm being done by
longer pOsponcmcnt of the question IN disoyal men
were not required To- tale tho oath great injury aud
dcrimert might occur. IL did not strike his mind as
proper certain Senators did not take the OATH
therefore others wcr" not required ~ do so His re-
marks applied the nutilty II referring the subject 10
committee who had already decided upon the question
Mr.. POWELL differed from lis friend from New-Jer'
scy lie did not think the question WIS mootec In the
Cam mite. that the law embraced Senator'S.
Mr. SUMNER said this discussion bad shown that there
was little occasion for reference. Ho had etentively
listened 70 al n, arguments. Those presented by the
senators from Kentucky and Delaware were 10 tie
effect that The Senator'S had already taken their places
and proceeded discharge their duties without having
taLrn and subscribed the oath. hat was fact. But
10 his mind this vas a reason for immediate action.
The proposition was brought forward nine months ago
and now when he arfed the Sennte % vote for IT, he
81. I,ft h. - utft,E
that he acting IN hot haste. thought the Sensse
was justly obnoxious 10 tie charge OF delay and ought
now to act promptly.
Mr.. SnrKnAS a. H.. Ohio referring 70 the law said
II contained such language as civil officers but
"ciy. naval and military ohcets" In any department
u the public service.
Mr. SUMNER resumed his argument In the course OF
which he SAID that At the comnenocucn Of this body II
was decided BY IL against II. yery small MAJORITY.
that OF IFS own members was not liable To De I'M
Reached by an assOc.Hie branch of tho Legislature.
his YVES the case to which reference had been made.
The Senate then email and this decision should hot
be followed 90 precedent ut the present lay. He
again urged immediate ncon on hs resolution, repeat
ins that n Senate were as vel PREPARED now as they
v you'd be after q report from the Committee.
Mr.. DooLTTI1 (Un.. WIS., moved that the senate go
into Executive Session.
Mr. SUMNER hoped not and asked the Senator 90 LOOK
al The clock--it Rns only hall past two.
1lr. DooIII1LE said that N Tho sui!ec was now
reforred IL would be reported back and would have
repetition OF the dcbaie. He preferred the discussion
should DO continued until they reached vote.
The question vas token on Mr. Sausburyg notion to
refer and decided IN Tho negative Yeas IS Nays 20 ~
follows;
YKAs-Me.sr. Blokalrys. CoIamer Cowsn. Davis. Foot
Harding, hsus Headers ueudrcka. McDous4 Nsin.th
Powell slulsbufy SterIup. Wright
hAys-Apfnony, brown Clara. Connes,, DIXON, Doolte.
Fes.enden Porter. ofimes. dsie Harlan Hex. Howard
Howe Lane lind Lane lksnsas Morgan Morrill, romeroy
Ramsay sumner Ten Eyct, 1runbul Van winkie, Wiley
" ilsOu.
Mr.. FEssgSDES OUn.. Mc) explained that he had
voted against the reference because the had been
considered In the Committee before the law passed
therefore, he thought IL was entirely unnecessary.
was certainly question Of interest the Senator from
Delaware Mr. BayartD and that Senator colleague
heard upon the subject Ho would extend this courtesy
Mr. SUMNER said the Senate ought not to adjourn
for halliday until this uue,tiOn decided.