The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1863-01-09

Nh STxyxss-T have my own views ON this subject IN
Jspsatsdly expressed thcm and IL erroneous Ii
geNiernaA need not act upon them
Mr. IN slA-Thcn n the ga tleman thinks they are no
within She UnA,n, bow does he propose TO pass zppro
prisions 70 pay scers 70 collect the revenue IN state
Mr. SrKvKKs-I propsAe 70 collect that revenue and
levy that tax va measure. USughtcr.) ] woul,
levy tax whenever could. just oil nation
levy taxes upon the provinces nation they have con
auered. would compel them, II my views and princi
Pies are right and would not onb collect the tax, but
Of property Of every dhoyai mad real and personal
life estate and reverson ana sell for tho bonet OF the
nation carrying on the war hold that we have such
power as TO treat them tho q province We had
conquered and ~ nation lighting against till We Ind
succeeded 10 conquering them can arrive at other
conclusion To mo Il Is IN absurdty say that mon In
arms BY millions shall claim the protection and provi
sious u the constitution and OF municipal Aws-aws
made for loyal they cease 70 obey one Of
these laws and repudate their binding effect. There
never was principle clear than that every obga
ton. whether 10 national civil point view order
the moment duty tho one hand the obligation
ceases on the other This my Judgment il the cond-
ton Of tho rebel states now.
Mr. YEArHASI am so much astonished at this doctrine
am now hearing. and feel 30 much interest this
thing not only ~ question OK constitutional law but
Of the influence may have upon this controversy
that will ask The gentleman IL he holds that the ord.
nance Of secession passed BY South Carolina legal
under the constitution OF the United statess
Mr.. STByHs-I hold II act OF treason and rebel
lion on tho part Of that state.
Mr. yvArAAs-Did the backing up these ordinances Of
secession by armed force mpart To them any validity
Mr.. SEvxSsI hold thai - long they remain ia force
against us ~ bcgerent Power, anu until they con.
quered, II IL IN fact All existing operation
Mr.. DusLAr--Whst want, thon, to know IL, whether
these people people Of the United States foreign
and independent nation and the latox whence do you
derive the right TO wage against Them and 10 tar
them2
Mr. SnsSss-I hold that tho constitution in Tho nrst
place so far operated thai when they into secession
and armed rebellion they committed treason, when
they combined themselves 10 make them admitted
a. begerent not merely az men in nsurrectlon thew
hp nrtco s.tt
and as belligerent Powtf under the law OF nations
Mr. MALLORY, (union) OF Ky.-witn wna. proprcty
can the gentlemen speak ~ these NJ the South who
are engaged in this armed resistance to the government
~ rebels or disloya men, when he distinctly stated
ihat the duty Of obedience and the duty OF protection
the citizen Is not bound In allegiance the government
Does not his doctrine release these from all oblga
ton to the government which Is not protecting them IN
The Confederate government and does there right
~ punish them by the con0scaon Of their property
engaged
Mr.. srxvyss-An these crimes ware committed before
they became begercntsbcfore they had acquired tbs
status OF bcgcreut Power, and compelled US ITO treat
them rs beiI4ercnsfor instance. prisoners Of
Mr. MALLORY said that II tho Connscaiion does not
apply 20 those crimes which have been committed
the armed resistance commenced tho Southern states
il canuot therefore refer to crimes which
United before the armed resistance was made and
relations with the Southern states become the relations
Of one belligerent 10 another.
Mr. SrssEss-My notion Is that we have tho right to
treat them would any other provinces that we
might conquer. dou't know but what the President
looks upon Il in that light
Mr.. MAYNARD, (unon) Of Tenn. DOCS the gentleman
hold 70 tho theory that this IL government of the
American po pie simply compact between separate
independent and sovereign sta,ess
Mr.. Sryvgss--fhst is abstract question (aughier)
well settled.
NJ. MAYsAsp-If tho gentleman hold to the latter,
cad well conceive Why he should hold every citizen in
each particular STATE Responsible for all the acts COM
mtted by the State authorities H he hold 10 the former
can any citizen os oun s Light sSsr v the
own own or by tho authorized act Of tho
win ssy here that tho sslsmans remarks Win 20 before
the country "a those Of the representative his party
and they DO repeated, not as his own opinion only,
but a. tho Opinions or large partythe opinion Of the
Executive.
". srrxs--I speak Tor myself oniy.
Mr.. NAysAsD-How can II happen that people situated
thoss my district for instance who have resist.
ed the ac,sn Of the majority Of the state and state govern
and are re-. now s's Ss x BY any
conssu.os although they are within the limits Of ,he
~. s.sSsss-l have seen no &C, done o,,ner ov IN.
Executive 90 proposed BY Congress which would take
awey Aay rghU or sacrifice any Of the interests Of mo
.{.l pen y: rsoslii0us states have seen, 90 the
Spbossd u Be- necessary and which did In tho nrsi in
myself but DO no. e. now shs executive can v"w
thsss questions In any other light than do The Pree
ad s.dsy thai ~ Created oSur IL Ss
Orleans Now the constitution operates inihese per-
tons q the country est By military power want 70
he prosnAtion Of ha mitry governors hc orders men
bs elected to take their ssas Congress and be has
right Enough shall - slscted otherwise might have
bssh oveUub by secessonsfs Only TO day evidence has
been presented Of what purpors To have beea election
held IN Accomsc county, In Virginia. VIII any Of tbese
gentlemen here whs such stIcklers FOE the cossa
tcn Is ard the Union ~ was,n tell mo by what
military authority, the existence u which have been
asserting Why. saw !, reported that when that elr
tion vas going % IN ens precinct they had TO send
NJ IN afarlt hA hal Iox snl -.
the secessonists attacked and drove "a the rissers
would ask the gentleman from Tonle.ses Ar Nay nsrd)
under what cosse OF the constitution does Andrew John
son hold his ONCE - Governor Of rsunesseef
Mr.. MAvsARp--undcr that part u the constitution
which requires the United states government % guarsn-
tee 20 the people or every state republican form ~
govanment Whenever the authorities ~ state have
abrozsied or have boen driven away by usurpaon
nvsson the United states government nust soc that
the machinery already there IA yaz-d and eel TO work
VI. sryKssaThen " the frcsidsn, happens 10 think
that there y not republican form o, government in
Tennessee although nine out q 81 her people form
constitution aud pass laws under H. he mas right ~
place Governor thore AMI sapcrsede the government q
the people,
Nj AYS,np--lhat Ia the sonilemans lufcresec, not
ST. SIryrSsI do no, hold any such doctrine AZ that.
hold that the Governor Of virginia today John letcher
far the constitution ID concerned. No other
has bcca cectcs according TO the provisions Of The
constitution The seeded states being m rebellion ADD
under military rule, hold thai this government has
gh, 70 10 all those things which are necessary oreprcss
the rebellion aud 70 conquer these people, and then
Union.
Mr. ois, Crcp } ofN j., controvcrt.d the position q
Mr Stevens Nc argacd that the ordnance Of
relieves citizens from their allegiance 10 this federal
government II there only los III 10 the
rehe0us States he has o. tho rights and anlties Of
c1rns Of any Other STATE aud the government 10 Just
nd IN wagins 70 protec, such citizens the cugagc
meut o. their ishts.
Mr. MAli0sY made explanation o. sbSs In, there
arc not than sir ihousapd from Kentucky Ia
tn rebel army.
Mr.. THosAs. N'non) ~ Maze, maintained the rover
Ol the government W coeet taxes IN tho dSyal states
IT, authority them valid when tne
acts u passed. livery nct n secession
was nBl aud void, aud null and Vol
could not acqaicse force because armed rebellion
prevented H. Tie authority u the government
il paramount over every inch u territory. We miss
therefore the collectlon " taxes II ordinances u
secession had no, boon passed. and when rass
against the constitution We oarsoyes are IN revolution
Al whatever cost, We 10 cling 10 the constitution
tho m, oua bond " union There uer friends Of
the In!0n than tho from the border states ZAP.
planse1 The heart u the country sOcs out 10
meet snd Diess them. Tie n scarcely fsl, In
New York or Psnnsylvana, except whom the first
born il brought home; but these men have with
sioci the eject u IRE aud sword when desola.
lion was their path death stared them IN the face
~ aid not believe IN the policy or wisdom of undI.
tAkrr " s,!erate these msn. AZ practical qaSyf1n
this Sar must Be fought In the border states The qaes
too TO- caE you bold tho border states with lancet