Indiana State sentinel. (Indianapolis, Ind.) 1861-1865, 1862-05-12

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liberty; and your six or eight millions of people
unhoused, have nothing, and have nothing to
buy it with" Laughter
Now, Mr. President it il beyond my compre-
hension how the road to peace lies in such path.
| am unable to see how peace can be attained by
any means of that kind. oh, but it is said we
must have some money, our people are hurdened
with taxes and debts and expenses. and we must
have something to repay them should like to
ask man who talks ID that way how much he
thinks can be got out of it. What would you
give for n farm down in Tennessee or Georgia,
with the people swarming around you unhoused.
people believing themselves to be owners, who
were outawed and deprived of their property by
you? Why, sir, it would require two regiments
to take care of every plantation. Laughter.
No man would give dollar for such title.
The idea of realizing money in that way is to me
as idle as the idea of realizing peace in that way
NO INTERFERENCE WITH SLAVERY.
Judge CoLLANER referred at some length, in
considering the provisions Of the confscation
bills freeing slaves, to the plighted faith of the
Republican party not to interfere with slavery in
the States. He said:
If we make a law, intending ii to be operative
by which declare that the slaves of all engaged
in thssrebellion, of all the officers and classes
menuOneu IN the amendment oil the senator from
Ohio, are free, and all right over them abolished
do you believe, does any man of common sense
believe, that you can make the world understand
that we have not interfered with slavery in the
States, and not to a very limited extent either
but to about the whole extent to which it existsl
All remarks, however ingenious, and all sophis-
try, however remarkable. which can make this
look any otherwise is but delusion. 1t can
not be seen i n any other light This is not put
on the ground that it is military operation, not
on the ground of proceedings IN rem, not that it
deprives man of his property and yet leaves him
to be hung, not upon any conviction, not upon
any process of law whatever, except this law
which now make.
IL seems to me, obtuse as / am, perhaps. in my
perceptions, that that is directly interfering with
this plighted faith; and it seems to me, further
that it is in direct violation of the provisions
prohibitions and securities which the Constitution
enacts. /, for one, will not do it. do not re-
gard myself rs needing any apology for not do
ing it. | do not think my people wish me to
contribute to breaking any provision Of the Con-
stitutOn, and they know would not do if they
did wish it; nor do they need any apologies from
me for regarding the oath have taken.
But, sir, if we had this power, allow me to
make single remark as - the policy of it in
aiding to put down the rebellion You propose
to say to the officers, Your property is confsca-
ted ;" and to the soldiers "You nav proceed with
impunity; if you do not succeed you shall not be
punished" Is it not saying, "Now, you officers.
fight on to save yourselves; and soldiers, you may
follow your officers as far as you can, for. after
all, If you do not succeed, You are not going to
lose anything" Really that does not seem to be
very good policy. The same treatment is pro-
posed in regard 10 slaves. The slaves are now in
the possession and control of their masters, ex
cept so far as our army goes. If they try to get
away, especially il they at any considerable
distance from our armies, their masters will not
allow them TO do it. Ofcourse the masters are not
going to let them get away to join us to shoot
them; they will stop them, perhaps kill them in
the attempt. If we knew people were going from
us to join the enemy and fight us we should not
let them 60. Neither do they. Now, by this
BILL we say to these slaves, if they are ever to
learn what we do at all-and if they do not. it
can have no efect-"You need not run any risk
about offending your master; perhaps your mas
ter will succeed IN the rebellion, and you will
suffer pretty hard if you undertake to run away
and he catches you; you may remain quietly with
your MASTER and not incur the hazard of his dis
pleasure or punishment; but if, after all, your
master does not succeed you shall be free, wheth-
er you help or not" Is that good policy? That
is the bill. 1t does not seem to me to be very
wise means to the end, if such an end is had in
view, as l suppose.
JUDGE CoLLAMER's EXPLANATION OF THE BILL HE
SUBMITS.
/ will now call the attention of the Senate to
the bill whicl have submitted as an amend
ment. 1t is printed, but have made some little
alterations ia the copy left on the table. In the
first place, in order to enable the President to
have in his hands opportunity to offer some
objects and advantages and purposes to that peo-
MI hava fol fhiS In ,o,,
of my bill l provide that the punishment for
treason upon conviction may be death, or, in the
discretion of the court, it may be fine and impris-
onment. That fine is limited to be not less than
SlO,O0O, and the Imprisonment to be not less
than five years. The maximum / have left to
the discretion of the court. | intended that the
fine in the power of the court to lay should be
such as was adapted to the mans means, and
would put the fine large enough to strip any man
who was incorrigible.
/ further provide that the effect of the coavic.
ton shall be that he shall be incapable of hold
ing any Office under the Government. and that
his slaves shall be free, and that this fine shall
be LEVIED and collected out of any property he
possessed at the time the act was committed
am free TO acknowledge one purpose that had
in this provision. Much has been said about the
subject of the forfeiture of mans estate be-
yond his life do not choose to discuss that;
do not desire that we should be involved in it..
What is forfeiture? 1t is the taking of somo
specific thing, as all the visible property man
now possesses-his farm, his horse. his ship.
That is visible. material identity that is for
feited fine has such quality. A fine is
but a mulcting of the respondent in sum Of
money. If he pay il, well; it he does not pay
it, you may levy and collect it ont of his prop
erty. L have created no forfeiture by my bill.
The act creates none, but il enables the courts to
levy and collect the fine out of the convicted
traitors property. | involve no question as to
whether you can create forfeiture of anything
beyond his life or during his life. 1t is no for
ieture whatever. l avoid that question alto
gether.
1t is next provided in my bill that, in order to
meet this, the President shall have power to take
possession of the property of person thus en-
gagged, wherever situated in the United States,
real and personal, to sequester il to meet this
ine to be holden until the man is tried, sooner
or later
Having done this. propose, in the next sec.
ton, that the President shall he authorized to
issue bis proclamation offering indemnity and
pardon to the people, with such exceptions and
upon such conditions and at such times he
shall point out. Suppose we take possession of
State, and the people remain; the President is
sues proclamation to the people, saying to them,
al have appointed officers and now if you will
within sixty days, all of you. except Jefferson
Davis, Robert Toombs, or their Generals-whai
exceptions be thinks the public safety requires
should be condigDly punished with these ex
ceptons, il you will come in to the officers
have appointed, and take your oath of allegiance
] will give you amnesty and pardon" He has
something to offer then.
Pass such bill, and they>see by it that the,
are subject 10 be fined and stripped, as well a:
imprisoned, and, to save themselves and families
from that, they would do what they would not do
to escape hanging. which they know will never
be administered You can hold out TO them some
purpose, some object, some advantage. and in ny
opinion the great body of the people not excepted
would at once avail themselves of the offer. Il
| YOU take off the pressure of their armies from