The New York herald., 1862-11-02
POPULAR DEBATE on THE NIGER QUESTION.
Discussion Between Cassius M. Clay and George
Francis Train at the Cooper Institute,
: &c., de-, 10.

ElVusiS hluAu ~ sAv NVVpSA AuNsAs0tV
SsAts. &c" A''
Esss~,-
The mproyised discussion which sprung up on Friday
evening at Academy Of Music toward the close of sr
George Trains pyrotechnc display Of oraory be-
gentleman and Mr. Cassus NJ Clay on the great
ngger question: resumed last evening in somewhat
snore formal way, by pitched battle between these two
champions OF prosavery and aboition--the arena this
time beng the large hall Of the Cooper Institute The
Zee OF twenty-five cents charged for admission but,
nevertheless the hall crowded 10 repleton full half
hour before the opening Of the proceedings. At all the
ofher public meetings held in this now famous hall tho
aodisncs has been exclusively and alternately composed
OF either democrats republicans Last night the audi
once was mixed one, probably about half and half
Ehere were large number of ladies present.
y About eight o'clock the chief combatants Clay and
Tad stepped upon the platform and were greeted with
cheers from their respective adherents among the audi
Clay looked solemn, serious but composed like
who Importance of the role which he had TO
play. Train looked sming benignant and selfconaden,
like one who prepared for any thing
In this SELF reliant sye Mr.. Train stepped up to the
reading stand and, after taking in all the cheers and
compliments that greeted him matter OF course, he
announced that they had come to novel entertainment,
and expected 10 spend pleasant evening. He knew by
the cheers given for him that he had many friends here,
and he aske those friends personal favor to give to
Mr. Clay the fair hearing which they would give
himself They represented the extremes Of opinion on the
question Of slavery Mr. Clay had asked him to open
the debate He would do so, and he was also
generous as to allow Mr. Clay the right Of closing the
debate which as the reverse Of the ordinary rule They
would speak each for half an hour and Continue the de-
Tasnp out his watch he stepped up TO gentleman on
the platform and whom he introduced as his friend Dr.
NcGowan, the distinguished japanese traveller, who
would be kind enough 20 keep the time in this Heenan
nd SaVr a. IhupLter
cheers.)
TRAINS FIRST HALF HOUR.
Mr.. TRAIN then plunged IN fias and declared that
ne should take the ground that slavery not the bad
institution represented by the sholtonsts. (Cheers
from the p'o slavery men and hsscs from the abolition
ists) In order to give Mr. Clay fair play and wide
field he shon III take the extreme proceed to
that slavery Divine institution.
This bold enuuciation met with mingled torrent
OF Kisses and plaudits, which continued for one or
his drowned with Kisses and execrations.
He folded his and looked deanty but pleasantly at
the storm He barred his brow to the blast, and, it
were not absurd TO mention such thing IN regard TO
Mr. Train-it might almost be said Of him
moment DER his brow
The tablet OF unuIterable thought was traced.
But Mr. Train could have no such difficulty in regard TO
utterance AT length he was able to get hearing and
when he did he said that 1t made no difference to him
whether they chcered sneered He then went on to
prove his proposition that slavery home institu
ton and said that American slavery the stepping
stone from African slavery to Christian civilization. He
had been to Africa and had the negro sculptued
obelsks and pyramids and he always the slave and
of other Look fat in Africa. First,
,rhysicaly Il was the custom in Africa originally to
mata,e the prisoners captured in war; and the
ysung Instead Of that no wever the slave trade came
and rescued the African and brought him to this country
Physically his condition was improved in American slavery
Now commercially, what ha Africans done In their
own country? Nothing In the South they grew TO-
bacoo, corn, rice and cotton until the exports Of the
country had reached $500 900, 900 year. There
some divinity in that Improvement II was stepping
stone from African barbarism 70 Christian civilization
Then, financially. In Africa there trade, nothing
but barter Then mechanically. In All lea there
no masons, carpenters mechanics On the American
plantations the slayes learned to be mechanics Then,
agricu'nrally There cultivation in Africa. IN
America The slaves employed in agriculture Then,
socially and morally. In Africa there such thing
marriage m the South there was. In Africa there
we're GOO OF people in hopeless degradation and he
Hall to their entire attention the terrible state
Of morals in Africa. In tho South the slaves went
But the abnonsts came IN to deprive Shareholders Of
their property, and stopped that slave education
thirty years ago. Therefore, reigiously the slaves
we're better off here than they In Africa
The King OF baomey sacrificed cvcry year two or three
or oar or I've thousand Africans in religious rite Last
year there 10 be thousand sacrificed but the
state Of the Kings exchcquer would not allow IT, and he
could only afford two thousand The other FIVE thousand
were shipped to Brazil slaves. He claimed to have
proved his points that American slavery had improved the
negro:-ffst physically second commercially; third,
financially fourth, mechanically; nfh agricuturaily
sixth. srcay, relgiously and morally And now said
he all those who really admit that was better for these
please manifest 1t by saying aye.
Some hall OF the audience responded with shout OF
"Aye," and considerable portion shouted "No." The
confusion OF The ayes good natured one
The party seeming TO give this answer for she Joke
Mr. Taals-Afrcan murderers African butchersl You
have admitted that you would rather two thousand
away as slaves (cneers and hsses Would il no. have
been better that these two thousand people, instead Of
being mutacd and buchered to transport them to the
South aud make them grow cotou rice aud corn? hous
of"Aye' and ''No' in about equal volume Well. as
nearly as can make out you about half Christians
and halt nurderers. (Cheers and hisses.) l am de.
lighted The next stepping stone OF the Africans will be
freedom, and that they win come to in time,
Here Or McGowan ntimated that Mr. Trains half hour
hal expired, aud so he resumed his seat
Dr. McCowAN stepped forward and said-Czens Of
New York-rhe statesman Of Kcntucky-tGod bless Ken
tucky)wlll follow fellow citizen Of Massachusetts
rass or srs. n w you w give soa n
your Interruptions (Cries Of mo, no.')
CLAWS FIRST HALF HOUR.
On coming forward, Mr.. Clay was received with a tre
mendous ouburs OF enthusiasm from his admirers, FOL
lowed by almost equal storm OF Kisses from his oppo
nens. Several small boys lurking behind the columns
kicked up frgh shndy, yelling and haoolng in the
heard IN the midst Of such tumuit,
Mr. Clay siid:-rhe eva that man In his individual
character do pcrshes with him but when be nfuses
evil into great principle he perpetratss that
may be eternal Therefore, entering upon the discus
sion OF subject OF so much vital importance would lit
my aspirations to the allbenevelent God himself that
may utter word which may bring pang TO q single
OF acton Aud l have also reason 10 be thankful
TO that same oyerruling Providence that, IN
sustaining the cause that have come here to vndcate
shall tranple upon Of those great principles Of
liberty which have been infused into form OF govern
Oy iatDcrs Inauc ctefnai hfnong men
your intelligence teach you that II the propo-
sition laid down by my distinguished friend be cor
rect and true, then when fathers asserted
that all born free, aud that they
entitled to life. liberty aud the pursuit Of happiness
they asserted fslsehood in tho OF mankind and
therefore, the government founded by them upon this
priucple must consequently be false and must fall There
fore my friend sustans the idea that there is no truth
IN the Declaration Of independence the whole repub
lie must be pronounced . failure.
voIcK-wc must stand BY the republic.
Mr. CLAr-fes, we are going to sustain the republic
ANOTHER VocE-You are sustaining the rebellion now.
Mr.. CLav stand here 10 night tho representative
OF the republican pory The President has taken his
ground, and, under existing circumstances whatever
ground hs tkes, with the tremendous OF the
power back up he must bc sustained by the peope
But I must do the President the Justice 10 say
chat far he has taken any action the subject OF
slavery agree with him with all my heart IIIsses
and applausc). II l and the republican party are