The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1860-06-19
Curious Evidence Before the Covode
Committee
The Charges Against the Administration on the
LeeOmpton Question NSprOvsd.
FOrney Proved to be a Miserable
Office Seeker.
TESTIMONY OF MESSRs. THOMPSON AND COBB.
&e., &e., &c.

ESiDENSE Vi bEShsTAhN Oi iNTEhiOh
FRIDAY, June s, 1880,
Hon Jacob Thompson called and examined
By the ChairmanQ Are Secretary Of the Interior;
A. lam.
@ During the year 1857 Mr. Martin from your
department to Kansas A. lie
Y. viii you state what conversation had with the
President previous TO his going relative TO the submission
of the slavery clause in the constitution Of Kanss A
nust except to that question am the Presidents
sttutional ser and when you ask the question that
form you imply something which might DO unwilling
admit So far any conversation has taken place BE-.
tween me and the President, could not admit your
right or any mans right TO demand that it should be
o. WIN you tell us out Of what fund Mr. Martin was
paid for that service in KansasS A. Mr. Martin at
that time clerk in the General Land Office. When the
public service requires agent to be from the de
partment, and clerk Is selected for that purpose the
uniform practice of the Office allow his salary
commuation therefor In this case Mr. Martin acted as
the agent Of the bureau OF Indian Affairs and the General
land Office, and the expenses OF the trip divided
between these two bureaus what proportion the
cords of the Office will show.
BY Mr. Wilson, He was paid by the Interior De-
partmcnt2 A. Yes, SIR of What Is done by the
bureaus Is considered as done by the department.
BY the Chairman-Q Did he get pay for more than
one services A. No. sir II he had claimed ana re
Ceved double pay for the service he would have
been dismissed from office without hesitation.
O. Can you explain why it he got friend II
make application TO General Cass, the State Depart
nent and his influence TO get pay from that quarter
A i think / can explain that matter In October OF
November 1857 probably in October he T. Kansas
the agent of my Office. He returned about the 1t Of
December, having completed his duties agent. soon
Department desired send dispatches to Kansas, and
called upon to name proper person to b. assigned
10 that duty. designated Mr.. Martin, who then
charged by the State Department with tn delivery OF
those dispatches. On this trip he the enpDyc of III
State Department and not OF the Interior Dplrtn NJ
on course his pay, allowance for cXprns's for this
second trip chargcable to the state and not Ia, Late
rior Department. But how much he was paid by that
department do not know and have never inquired into
U. Did you make II particular point 10 send him az
The time the Constitutional Convention was 10 met Ia
Kansas A. Public business required az to b, sea;
"a
avail myself of the occasion 10 select ag,nl-AaO
would necessarily be thrown Ia contact with tn IN ars
of the Convcntion-Whcse views would hirm,niZ with
my own. O course, then, desired him to 60 az Tat
iine.
Mr. Martini have you not A Yes sr; have real II ~
published.
O. so far as that testimony has stated circum
mutually connected with both of you, Is il correct
A. far my knowlciec extends, II is correct wolll
take no exception 10 anything he has said, it IL sub',n
TALLY true.
By the Chairman-o. Now, will you state whether or
not you had anything to do with drawing preparing
The slavery clause for submission, whether you mad
suggestions for him TO induce you To do sog A. yoir
question raises two points The first is the in
which the slavery clause should be drawn up the
thc form of submitting that clause to the people. had
much discussion about that time with various indiv iduss
ms manner in which the slavery clause should be
drawn. There private conversations in which
great difference Of opinion existed. Ny OBJ
ject was to secure the question of slavery, and
and prosavcry democrats. On this subject expressed
my opinions freely with Mr.. Martin much 10 the
drew nothing, but expressed myself willing accept
anything which would harmonic the democratic party in
stitu,ion, never had or expressed bu, one opinion
uniformly opposed the submission Of the slavery clause
AN Isolated proposition because believed the weakest
form in which the question could be presented At the
time Mr. Martin started for Kansas there impending
over this country the most threatening question ever
scented 10 the American people Several OF the southern
States had held public meetings in which they had urged
The Constitutional Convention Of Kansas, which was
known to be prosavcry, ~ adopt pro-slayery
10 demand
mission | had taken the ground that the Con
ycnton possessed the power TO make a complete
people yet that would be most unwse and mpolitic
under the circumstances for the Convention TINS to act
bad the issue been presented in that shape this Union
would have been in peril, and that knew full well.
hs~y effort OF mine therefore, every advice gave
circied 10 but one endso 10 arrange the slavery clause
in tiS constitution that the free aud proslaycry
democrats, who, united, were in my opinion In ma
jority in Kansas could harmonic and the const
tuition, when made, by popular vote These my
views, and urged and cnioined upon Mr. Martin that
whatever influence he could exert should be directed 10
o am right the Instructions OF Mr. Martin were to
attend TO some business for the Interior Department.
@ Was any of that at Iecompton, where the Convcn-
Hon met a. Yes, sir. Grave charges were pending
against the land officers nj Lcconipon. which he
structed 20 investigate and report upon.
by Mr.. winsow-Q Mr. Martin rcprcscntci that your
wishes TO him we're to exercise his influence, possible
for the purpose OF the out AMI ont submission % the
tthui'ou. IL h. correct Ia that 4 H. Is correct IN
that
a 4
nclfhc prepared procrdmac pr'pdrst a.
ory way draw up ~ any Dsem'y 81 ~ ddRaisr,tioa
In sbs spring Of iss, Mr. iscs sho%e me- Nan she
you might possibly consider programme
Is he IN this oityS A H. was ia this city few
Q. Was II similar 10 this plan which was adopted A
No, sir; II was very unlike ". That looked 10 tn
form In which the phrase Respecting slavery should be
inserted In the constitution in which disscnted from
him and from other friends, who he informed ina ap
O. Did you give your views 10 Mr. Martin about The
submission Of the slavery clause? A. freely gave 90 Mr..
Martin my views how slavery clause should b. drawn
but all my conversations we're based upon the distinct
and well understood idea of SUBMISSION Every variation
Of the clause Was considered with view to Submission
The pcrplexing question was how could be done
% meet far might be, the dissenting and conflicting
opinions Of those supposed TO be aiming al the end,
and al the Time protect the rights II property 10 the
Of slaves then there THIS the great point 10
be gained.
democracy A. That's the purpose had In view
q And 10 frame the constitution harmoni1c tn
conflicting opinions Of democrats In the Territory,
BY Mr.. winslow-o 10 you know Of the use OF any
money by the President Of the United States, any
Der Of the Cabinet towards the passage of the lccoup'pn
blR A. That question, which will answer, implies,
think, reflection upon my honor Iknec such thiag
% b. dom " any man IN authority should Je myse dc
Mr.. Wnsow-So should suppose
The w,ness-I kner nat u'cn,y 'oa' corr.Ply us.i
% efcr any Liquidation by Congress, 70 any
o,on BY Ne crerpirs Q,rs, by any mlr-er~' ne best
friend had edrth-T booud crpose o. and 10 i'm.
wy TINT hau Sone knowingly VI SUCH Wdn~R
sion, and that II necessary put my oath and
direc, examination 10 extract the exposure, Is an in
pnuation upon my clAracter-a reflection that am not
guided by thos high punctious principles of honor and
honesty which have ever protsscd from my boyhood
fion merely as a matter u form
The witnessI know the motive that actuatcs YOU and
am satisfied.
EVIDENCE or THE SECRETARY oP rHE TREASURY.
TrE~psy June II, 1850
Hon Howell Cobb called and examncd.--
The testimony OF Hon \ = Cox. given on the 9th and
Wae thp 4ul,.
a Mr. Gciger's testimony stated, 80 FAR as the wit
referred TO.
BY Mr.. winsow--Q Nd you ever have interview
with Mr.. Cox upon the subject Of The Lccompton br
DID yu ever invite him 20 interview With you upon
chat subject and 40, did you have such interview
Pending the question Of the Jcomp,nn BILL my frcni
Mr.. Jackson, member Of the House Georgia state
o. me that he believed Mr. Cox had great respect for