The weekly pioneer and Democrat. [volume] (Saint Paul, Minn. Territory) 1855-1865, 1860-01-27
The Presidency i'm the Senate---Inter-
esttng debate between Douglas, Davis,
Pugh, Green, Clay, and others.

Fugh' Green, Clay, and others.
In the United States Senate, on Wednes-
day last, an interesting debate transpired
between number of Senators on the sub.
ject of Congressional Slave Code. We
publish as much of the debate as we have
room for.
Mr.. Pugh's resolution was taken up, and
Mr.. Pugh resumed his remarks. He ex-
planned the meaning of the Kansas Nebraska
bill, which he regarded as surrender of the
power of Congress over the Territories. He
denied that the bred Scott decision was
susceptible of the Presidents Interpretation.
The ePresident seemed to think that the
frequent assertion of the same thing would
cause it to finally be accepted as fact. 1t
might be accepted by placemen and personal
admirers, but the claim that there was any
vested right to hold slaves in the Territory
by virtue of that decision was not sustained
by the facts. He reviewed the bred Scott
decision at length. Having read an abstract
of the bred Scott case, he denied that the
Supreme Court had therein settled the
question of slave property in the Territories.
Congress could not make laws to violate the
Constitution.
Mr.. Green said he had distinctly stated
that the question did not arise before the
court whether a Territory could prohibit
slavery in the Territories. On that the
Court gave its opinion and decided that the
Territory could not exercise any power be-
yond that of Congress.
Mr.. Pugh then read Judge Catron's orin-
ion dissenting thereirOm.
Mr.. Pugh then showed that Senator
Davis in his speech at Portland, Me-, had
admitted, in reply to the charge that the
south wanted to force slavery into the ter
ritories, that the territorial legislature by
failure to pass protecting law might vir-
tually exclude slavery. Mr.. Pugh also com.
mented upon the removal of Judge Douglas
from the Craftsmanship of the committee on
territories, because of his Freeport speech.
Mr.. Green was opposed to the removal,
and would vacate his place on the committee
and in the Senate to restore harmony to the
party.
X Mr.. Davis thought that about
the period of the passage of the Kansas
Nebraska act, the Senator from Illinois was
sounder than at any other time.
Mr.. Douglas said on the very night of the
passage of the Kansas Nebraska act, he held
and expressed the opinion which he now
entertained as to the power of the people in
the territories.
Mr.. Davis was not member OF this body
then, and did not therefore have the happi-
ness of hearing the Senator.
Mr.. Douglas-Then you should not ex.
press an opinion of my soundness if you did
not know my views.
Mr.. Davis continued and expressed the
opinion that Mr.. Douglas was properly de.
posed from the Craftsmanship OF the commit
tee on territories, as his views were not in
accordance with those of the majority.
Mr.. Douglas believed that three fourths
of the Democracy of the country agreed with
him. He would show by the record that
the majority had understood the terms of the
Kansas Nebraska act, as he did. MIR. Rich
ardson, who was the nominee for Speaker of
the House against Mr.. Banks, wrote let
ter in which he recognized the power of the
people of the rritories, and after that got
every Southern Democratic vote except
three.
Mr.. Davis reiterated that Mr.. Douglas
was deposed because his views were not in
accordance with those OF the majority.
Mr.. Douglas had no complaint to make
on that deposition and never intended to refer
to it. For eleven years he was chairman
OF that committee, all the time holding the
same views; and at the end of that time was
removed though he had not changed his
sentiments. This only showed that others
changed, while be adhered with fidelity to
his principle.
Mr.. Green said that the Senator from
Illinois in 1856, accepted this as judicial
question, and agreed to abide by the judicial
decision. During the eleven years referred
to by the Senator from Illinois he never had
asserted that the Territorial legislation pos
sessed power that Congress did not.
Mr.. Douglas admitted that he had regard
ed this as judicial question, and that he
did so now. The bred Scott decision did
not settle it. 1t was not argued before the
Court. 1t would have been disgraceful if
the Court had decided what was not before
it. Whenever the Territorial legislature
passed an enactment prohibiting slavery,
the Supreme Court could decide the ques-
Ilou, duu he COulu rtspeCI tne ueClSIOu. he
would then help to carry it out in good
faith. That was the understanding when
the Nebraska bill passed. He did not be-.
lieve the decision of the Court would be
against bis views.
Mr.. Green stated his views as to the I'm.
Outstanding at the time of the passage of
the Kansas bill, and said the Senator from
Illinois would not dare dispute his PROPOSE
tions.
Mr.. Douglas replied that the word dare
was unnecessary, and it was unnecessary to
handy words He dared assert the truth.
He thought he knew what his own opinions
had been as we'll as the Senator from Mis-
souri,. He would viDdicate every word he
had said, and when Senators had all gotten
through with the bills of indictment against
him, he would fire at them in lump.
Mr.. Green (excitedly)-The Senator can
fire away whenever it suits his convenience,
either at us in lump, or individually.
There is one individual who is ready to meet
him at Phillippi. know and assert that
no man ever claimed that the Territories
possessed more power than Congress until
the Freeport speech.