New-York daily tribune. [volume] (New-York [N.Y.]) 1842-1866, 1860-03-30

geIilensn at all, except IN his imagination. IrN,
no charge against the President and cannot cit her.
quietly and permit these allegations to 10 out unconra
dicfed by this ride of the House.
Mr. SHERMAN-1 must have misunderstood the
Message, If the President does not deny the power OF
the House 20 institute the investigations.
Mr.. CRAIGE-That is true, but he does not deny
thepower OF tho House to impsach. He does not deny
that. He denies the right OF his socnoer MR. Covode
10 be the Committee to institute the proceedings
Mr. SHERMAN have already answered In regard
TO the mode. In what other mode-how ese shall we
investigate rs to whether or not ought to mpeach
an oiiceri How else shall we inquire, except by in-
ves,igstonf
OF the Judiciary, as has always been the case here
tofore.
NJ. CAMPBELL Rep, Penn Grand Juries In
Pennsylvania not only TO try those mstters
given them in charge upon specific bs but they have
an unlimited power TO make presentation and report
3, upon such matters as come within their knowledge,
anG they have right to do so without any charge.
Mr. SHERMAN-Is that the Presidents position
Shall the President of the United States tell us where
We are 10 refer anything We refer to Select Com
mittee if we choose; to Standing Committee, II we
choose; 10 single Member, if we choose, and the
Preside mt has no right to say nay. Any Commttee
we choose to appoint we do appoint, comprising mem,
of the natter and when that Committee reports to u.s.
we then ourselves ascertain whether the accusation 10
well or IN founded and not before. have said more
than intended AS the President has entered his pro-
test am willing this House eha accept the Issue. l
am willing to inquire into the power OF this House to
investigate. Therefore submit the motion that this
commune. toH be referred TO the Go nmittee on the
Judiciary, with leave to report at any time by bin or
otherwise
Mr.. BOCOCK Dem, va.)-Inasmuch as was the
member af this House who asked that that message be
taken up the usual parliamentary courtesy would nave
extended TO me the privilege OF the floor to make
the motion upon IT, / do not say this IN spirit
of complaint, because / know the Speaker of the
House is not aware of the usual rules; but other
members know. aod none better than the
gentleman from Ohio that the member who
brings up or calls forward proposition, is the mem
Der entitled to make the motion upon it. do not OBJ
isct, however, to the opportunity the gentleman OF
Ohio has had to make the remarks he has made, and
] intend 10 submit very few words IN reply, 10
spirit hope of cauness, dspassionate courtesy, and
dignity becoming the occasion. This Is an important
Message, calculated to excite great deal OF aten-
ton and discussion in the country. 1t is grave,
careful important Message. 1 hope the members
of the House of Representatives will come up to It's
consideration in spirit worthy OF the OCCASION Mr..
Speaker permit me to cay that when the resolution
was submitted by the geutepan from Pennsy wanna
(Mr Covode) ths other day, found myself placed in
8 very awkward condition. 1t is Always disagreea-
BE TO any man TO vote against investiga-
tion. because the country does rot always under
stand those technical points which gentlemen may
raise and the Constitutional grounds which lie at the
bottom Of these Investigations i arose at the tme
to explain my position, but the gentleman from
PENNSYLVANIA insisted upon the rule of the previous
question being enforced, 10 prevent my speaking
and | contened myself with saying | would vote
against the resolution, and would give my reasons
for it at future time i voted against II, Mr.
Speaker, for reasons Swallowed forth by the Pres
ident of the United States in this Message. gay
the gentleman from Ohio has mistaken the ground
upon which the President bases his protest.
The President of the United States does not object to
our INQUIRIES against him with a view to impeachment
He asks only that would treat him as we treat any
ctzen-the humblest in the land. Let me ask you, let
me ask the gentleman from Ohio, and every fair and
in this HOuse If desired found
criminal ALLEGATION against the humbest man, would
you allow 3 sweeping and rakug inquiry Would you
allow Grand Jury TO call witnesses and say 10 them,
Do you know whetheTt this man was guilty OF anything
wrong in relation to anything in the whole circle OF
crime! Do You do that in Pennsylvania? DO you
do it in Ohio Do you do 1t, gentlemen, who are en-
gagged in criminal prosecutons-do you allow Grand
Jures TO ask questions of this nature say, no. In
the name Of law, in the name Of justice, and IN the
name of common sense you DO not what then 90
you do? You require speclhc allegsIlon'. iou re-
6uire man 10 say that he believes that this man he
accused did at a certain time, within certann hol-
its do a certain thing which is crime And you ask
the witness i'm relation to that particular act alone
Now, Sir, if the gentleman from Pennsylyana had
come forward and said he had reason 70 believe that
the President of the United States had been engaged
in undertaking by corrupt means 70 force any pircu-
lar act through the Congress OF the United states;
apy particular form of that kind had been given to his
accusation should have been the last man on this
floor to vote against such investigation. In ordinary
cases, you cannot commence proceedings against any
III.
Il at he has to believe that the person charged
has been guilty of wrong in the particular named
Mr.. SHERMAN (interruptng)--I want TO refer the
gentleman TO the of the XAAlFth Congress,
when the House expelled one Of Its own members
upon charges 70 more speClhc. -
Voices on tbs Democratic side-"The charges were
specific, :" "They were specific
Mr.. BOCOCK-Those accusations according 10 my
recollection; were specific, ID they were express
They were reduced to that FORM at any rate, before
the gentleman was required to answer them
Mr.. BOCOCK-The sum and substance OF your
propostion is that the Grand Juror of PENNSYLVANIA
can act az witness That il all amounts TO- If he
knows of anv express criminal net he can depose TO 1t
upon oeth, and upon that bill may be found against
the person charged. But cay TO the gentleman from
PEN splvania that you cannot, before Grand Jury
Of Penpsy lyania or any other civilized land,
can no a witness and ask bin whether he
knows of any wrong done by any particular mol
vidual. You must direct his attention 10 some sPecc
csge before you can force the witness TO TESTIFY:
Why, Sir, what would be the condition of things II
this were not sol Why Sir 20 allow the Grand Jury
TO 90 out and inquire against every man In the CON-
mnnjtv, To inquire of witnesses If Trey know oil
apythifg wrong done by any man, would be mon
circus. BY what right title would we hold our
regulations, our liberty, aye, or our lives wen, or,
will YOU not extend TO the Iresdeht OF the ohiteu
States the same measure Of justice III gentlemen
are opposed TO him politically, let them remember
that he is yet President of the nation He Is en-,
bowed by the majority Of the people OF the United
States with the dignity Of the highest Office, not
only in the land bu; in the world lie represents the
hiyhert office in the world and if not for his sake,
for the sake of the dignity and honor OF the country
gentlemen should extend to him the same measure oil
fair dealing hatthey would TO any oher-the hnmblest
citizen in the land. The gentleman from Ohio does the
President injustice. His complaint is that sweeping
declarations made against him. Inc resolution %
10 INQUIRE whether any officer bias used corrupt means
| to procure the passage of any blu. The gentleman
from PENNSYLVANIA Did not gay even that he had good
reason TO believe there was any ground Tor such an
inquiry lie not only did not commit himself on oath
he id not commit himself on honor-thet there was