The daily dispatch. [volume] (Richmond [Va.]) 1850-1884, 1859-10-11

posed Of two Houses Of wh,ch' hh'ion a sha be COM
tatos with tes,r JURISDICTION in the ipseMa "a
lie House ssa ~ form 70 n Rnswn RRns such
yates e. be o. sshoPs and and Lazy pes
nays ALREADY shall hereafter rhs hsrs poceses which
Tie Moase Of fpe, pepuiiSssam the ether known as
to the ether act'sn and
sfe Ta nas.s ias law " # the Church shall
House Of DEPUTIES inform the House 80 tem M by the
,ar N.Y., concurrence or concurrence Iths @
and failure hersef sha sh Mrb,1s ba1ss / they
nao, & me action Of the House of Bishons o' pa Jaw
Witch shall he sent to the House n o deputies
M Mansm lhe NTH day preceding the adioopnmnaa,na.'
both Hnnsa law only BY the concurrent vote al
-. Al acts cts Of he Convention shall be autben,;ca
secretaries nf bath u o, Ine presiding officers and
hesslred, That Article r. of the Constitution be
siehded ny Striking out the word .tConyentinns
If man IA sentence and inserting the words House
RssStred, That Article H. as thus amended be
hereafter numbered Article III. ~
Mr.. Thrall also read the following:
Arr III. Whenever General Conventions a,.
he'd he u shops OF this Church, having Jurisdiction
N the United States. to- ether with an, Assistant
bishops WHICH they have, shall form a separate
House with the riX hit to originate and propose acts
to he sent TO the House of Clerical and Lay Depu-
ties for their action, which acts on the concurrence
OF the House of Deputies. shall have the force of
| law,
When any act originating in the House of Depu-
ties shall have passed that House, it shall be sent
10 the House of BISHOPS for their action. In all
cases the House of Bishops shall inform the House
| oi deputies OF their concurrence or non concur
renee tthe latter with their reasons writing, If
they see hi to give snch reasons, in the action of
alter saId action shall have been sent to them. and
IN failure thereof it shall have the force of law !:
PFoctfd, That in case the action of the House OF
! Deputies shall re sent to the House of Bishops
later ,han The nth day preceding the adlourpment
Sas a. oil this Convention, such act shall not have
| House of Bishops.
All acts of this Convention shall be authenticated
| lie hoped the amendment under considera-
| tion would be defeated, and he would then
offer his proposed amendments and move their
! reference 10 the Committee on Canons.
| DR.. A H. Ninton, of Pa, agreed with the
| gentleman from California in his exposure of
| the imperfect tloDs OF the proposed amendment t..
| It's adoption would be fatal to The interests of
| TINS body There is great res training power
| on the House ofDeputies-their constituency
| TO whom they are responsible for their acts
! but The House of Bishops have none. They
| can never be dissolved except by death. We
go To our constituency, and they can say, you
| have SO abused your power that we will send
| YOU to the General Convention no more. The
| speaker entered into a history of the causes
| which led to the in production of the amend
| ment. He suggested farther. that the Consti-
| tuition should compel the House of Bishops to
| take notice of the action of this House aud
| hoped the Convention would think seriously
| before giving additional power to q body
| wholly irresponsible, and which, when it once
| has power, can never lose it.
| Mr. Hoffman, OF N. Y, made an eloquent
! speech III favor of the proposed amendment,
| and alluded 10 the divine agency delegated to
| the Bishops. in making laws for Gods church
| on earth. He desired that the two bodies
| should go hand in hand, and such would be
| the effect OF the measure now suggested. II
| was no new doctrine. 1t had been a favorite
| with presbyters and laymen ever since the
1 foundation of the Church. The speaker, in
| conclusion, replied to the positions of the
clerical delegate from California, (Mr. Thrall. J
| a lay delegate from Virginia expressed his
| disagreement with the gentleman from New
| York. If it were true that ali the legislative
power was vested in the Bishops by the great
| head of the Church, he for one would not be
willing to remain in this body. The question
to be decided is, what is best for the interes Is
| OF the Church. He thought it best to 'slet well
enough alone.' lie rose particularly he
| said to refute the idea that laymen and pres
| by'ers had no legislative power except through
| the condescension of the Bishops.
| Judge Conyngham, of Pa, thought there
was too much disposition at the present day to
legISiate, and to disregard the wisdom of the
| past. II was the same in Church Councils as
| in other bodies. As the Church grows in
| strength and numbers, we are not disposed to
| be satisfied with what has been done Nv those
| who preceded u.s. Within the last fifty years.
| the Church has grown from few to many
| Dioceses Gentlemen of other denominatio
| have Investigated our principles of religious
| government and come into the Church. This
| Article has been the law of the Church for
| over fifty years. Why change it nowl Our
| fathers adopted it the basis on which the
Church was to grow, and on W Which il has grown.
| He had never heard of any eyilconseQuent
upon this provision of the Constitution. We
are to legislate for the correc ton of that hich
| ought never to have been adopted or for ima-
| gnary evils which may accrue hereafter
Why is not the Article right as it stands {!
| When the plausible doctrine of equality is
| presented here. we should go farther and as
certain in what equality consists If we give
| the House of Bishops power 10 veto our acts by
letting them lie unnotlced on their table. there
is no equality in that. You give them power
which We have not. The Deputies come here
from the people, fresh with their views and
| aware of their various wants. The House of
Bishops are permanent. An opinion expressed
by one OF them now, comes up the next ses-
sion before the same body. and not before
body sent fresh from the people with their
views and ideas. You will find that power
thus given to permanent House, is power
that Will increase and never yield. If our
fathers, in 1859, came forward and made con-
cessions to the people, which have ever since
stood as the law of the Church, he could see
no good reason for changes now.
Judge Chambers, of Md. was in favor of
making Constitution what it should be and
then exacting rigid observance of it. He saw
but one objection TO the proposed amen dmenf,
and that was alluded to by the clerical dela-
gate from Pennsylvania. The Bishops should
| be compelled TO act on all subjects presented to
them 1t would be better to wait three wears
and have perfect equality secured by an
amendment, than to have the work done i'm
perfectly now.
Mr. Winans. of Cal, replied to the remarks
of the lay delegate from New York relative
to the august power and the grand source of
power OF the House of Bishops. Ii spiritual
power We're thus delegated TO the Bishops all
IoWer rests with them, and this House is i'm
potent. He had as much respect for the yen-
hAtlRNlI
the Convention should continue to act as here
io1ore, unless some great necessity exists, and
none exists now. There was a constant ten
dency TO Increase the power of the upper
House. and diminish that of the lower Now
it Is sought TO be voluntarily giyen when not
even asked for. No evil had thus far resulted
from the Article as it stands. Laity and pres
byters had rights as well as the venerable IA
theirs, which ought to be respected.
DR.. Adams, OF Wis, believed that an Article
that had been in existence 81 years, and re-
ceived the sanction of so many Conventions,
was too important to be blown away by a
breath. He said there We're two laws--the Ter
scrip a. or written law, and the law of custom
Ia the early days OF the Church. two or three
respec table old gentlemen, Bishops of the
Church, met together and talked over matters
tor her in terest, and found it convenient to sit
with closed doors; a custom which has been
continued to the present day. He had no OBJ.
lection to this-he was conservative in his
yieWs--but had thought it a little strange that
our House of Bishops should sit as none other
ever sat since the creation of the world. Now,
if you pass this amendment, yon offer TO the
Bishops an inducement TO treat this House
with neglect. BY the present Article they
III ust notice our action in some shape or form.
If we set to work and take away this compul-
sorry ciyility, aud they sit there with closed
doors, you may send IN your acts ana never
hear of them more. They will have the legal
right TO let them lie nnnoticed, and he believed
they should be made to take some notice of
them. If the amendment is adopted, our sole
House of Bishops The object Of the present
Article is to put US OH an equality with the