The weekly pioneer and Democrat. [volume] (Saint Paul, Minn. Territory) 1855-1865, 1858-04-15

Instead OF slA, w hot nuo"' WY Hot
multiply ii by three. Or four, or FIVE! Ger
tain il is that in any new country the pro
portion Of voters to the population is much
larger than in an old one and know that
in the older States with which | am &C.
auainted We never can get out votes more
than one TO five. We never can get any
thing near that in the State to which l be-
long.
Mr.. Pugh. The ordinary estimate. rs |
have always understood, is one to seven.
Mr.. Collamer. do not know but that
will do for Ohio.
Mr.. Pugh. II will do for Vermont.
Mr.. Collamer. Our elections do not show
it. In the State of New Hampshire the
proportion was one to four and half in the
last election. The idea OF there being SIX
people in Minnesota to every voter, strikes
me is entirely unfounded The great diff
Guilty is, that you assume as basis vote
very much questioned by both parties, even
supposing the proportion to be good but
that is based entirely upon conjecture. You
take one conjecture and multiply it by ano-
Their conjecture, and you think this is the
way to produce great degree Of certainty.
1t is almost equal to the way in which a
man once weighed hogs in new country
Being without steelyards, he put large
stone on end Of the slab, to balance the hogs
at the other, and then he guessed at the
weight of the stone. Laughter, That is
the way in which he got at certainty. So
il is here. We are to throw aside the CEN
sns, and take conjecture, aud then multi
ply one conjecture by another, and SO get q
certainty. That hardly contains elements OF
certainty enough for a proposition In alge.
bra, where we deal with uncertain quant-
ties. This is putting too much uncertainty
on matter OF this kind. The census returns
have been received for nearly all the coun-
ties in the Territory; ana there Is no proof
here that those returns were not fairly taken
Estimating the few counties that remain on
the most liberal basis, you cannot bring the
population of Minnesota above one hundred
and fifty Thousand. Coming, as do, from
State which containing more than three
hundred and twenty Thousand people, has
only three Representatives in the other
House, cannot consent that you shall allow
Representatives to another people having
less than half that number, according to the
returns.
But, sir, the immediate question before us
ginia, and upon that | have said all that !
wish to say-that its practical effect will
amount to nothing at all. 1t will still leave
the ultimate result the same as if we retain
this section in conformity with the enabling
act
Mr. SIMMONS, Of X, l., in reply to Mr..
CoLiAMgR, was in favor Of giving the State
two members He said
What | want to do, and what think is
fair, is to provide that this State shall be
entitled to as many members as any old
State with the least fraction for which q
member was given. As To the idea OF fix.
ing three members arbitrarily, think you
might as well say fourteen. There Is no
reason, no justice, no propriety, in giving
them three members unless they are entitled
to three. II they are entitled to three, |
would allow them that number but to as
sumo that State which according to its
census, estimating the counties not heard
from, can only show at most one hundred
and fifty thousand people, shall have three
members, and allow them three now, and
then TO go on next year or the year after and
take the census 10 see if they cannot make
out sufficient for that number, is wrong in
principle, is unjust TO the old States and |
think is a pretty hard nfraction OF the Con
stitution itself ! should like to zee the
clause so amended that this State shall be
put on an equality with the most favored
States, and have two members, provided its
fraction is as large as that Of any Of the old
States, that has O member for a fraction
With that modification ! an certain she
would get all she is entitled to.
Mr.. TRuxBuLI, OF ILL.,. referred to the an.
oYnaIous condition Of affairs in this State
caused by the refusal or neglect OF COngres;
to admit Minnesota. lie sneerei at the
idea Of there being any sovereignty in a
Territory, prior to its admission as State
He said
The idea that Territory can be an indie
pendent government and possess sovereign
power, and that there is any such thing u
territorial sovereignty, independent Of thu
action Of Congress, is utterly inconsistent
with the government Of Congress over tn
Territories, and will breed confusion so lone
as it is adhered to. | hope all future ena
bling acts will provide that the Territorie
shall not assume TO act az States until Con
grcss has admitted them. Congress las au
thority to admit new States, but it bas 1
discretion on the subject and until Stat
is admitted i, ia nothing but Territory
and has no right 10 assume To act as State
All this legislation in Minnesota. under al
tbonty partly State and partly Territorial
apprehend would be held to b. nullitJ
before any court in Christendom.
IT. reierence to representation, Mr. Tsts
Bull was opposed 10 giving the State thr7
members. Ina lengthy speech he depre
ciatcd the extent Of Our population, and re
vamped nurnberIezs exploded abolition false
ho1uls !, ,pEfr4nr,, tn election frauis Ar --