The daily union. [volume] (Washington [D.C.]) 1845-1857, 1857-01-10

posed to the candidate who declared be elected
previous opinions may have existed s the ques
uon. presume the rule Is familiar every member o.
this body that IL there is quorum present and five vote
and the Others 90 not oppose ~ their choice is considered
ed asserting. On that basis suppose this
rest There is no instance far as knowf there be,
should like hSe specd din which il bas appeared
that majority OF either body OF the legislature the
time and place OF election, voted against the individual
said to be elected.
| Mr.. TooABS I have heard many cases of that kind
understand that Mr. Cooper the predecessor of the sena
tor from Pennsy no put the question TO
eecte under precisely that state OF acts think II has
frequently occurred in Virginia They may happen in my
State or in New York would ask the from New
| York what is the practice there2
| Mr.. SEWARD. BY the Law of the State of New York
day appointed for the election Each house nominates
and then they go into joint meatug and they find that
the nominations of the two houses agree the person in
whose they have concurred declared elect
but If there is not aconcurreuce they all resolved into
one body and vote per capita and the person having ma
jory OF the whole is elected although majority of
house or the other is against him.
NrBAYARD Perhaps had better put my question in
different FORM The point involved in it u.s. in my judg-
ment the point on which this turns Ny inquiry
whether any senator took his this body where
question made and it appeared that the time and
place OF election quorum OF both branches of the egsa-
ture was not PRESENT. T.
Mr.. BUTLER There has never been such case.
Mr. BAYARD. consider that when the Senate go into
joint convention and there by quorum they assent
to the action of majority matter how they may ndi-
Mr.. TOOMBS. l do not know whether there has been
such that suppose nobody raised plain
question. do not suppose such question ever was
raised though it has often occurred but the the
ator put know may happen in threeourths Of the
States of the Union and have happened fifty times
1t may happen at any time in my own State, and pre-
sumo in most others The idea of the senators from Della
and Pennsylvania to be- that choice by the
legislature requires the of the bodies
If we had third body they had in France composed
nf nlnr Nod
power would be shared by the other two bodies their
currence also would be requisite Their position is that
there must be concurrence of many houses
pose the legislature whether two or three hr
ty. take it, the other hand that the plain meaning
of the constitution has been uniformly acted from
the formation OF the government until now s that the
word "egisature used in this clause of the consu
ton means the members elected to the legislature These
persons representatives Of the people in their local egs
latures, were made electors for this purpose Why not?
Is II requisite that the senate and house shall sepa
rately lis the election OF senator legislative act? la
some the executive in many of the States may be
considered part of the legislative power because act
cannot be passed without his assent unless by wohirds
vote yet nobody supposes governors concurrence
necessary.
The whole question, stated In the beginning turns
on the point whether this law of Iowa which have al
luded conforms to the constitution The gentlemen
nbolng at that point although they have taken firm
hold oft The law of Iowa says the election shall be
oy the members o her legislature She puts that
ton upon the constitution Her supreme judges sit by at
authority. concur with her that the members composing
the legislature Ia whom vested the legislative authority
OF the State the individual electors of senator Of the
United States
, Mr. BUTLER. Do understand M friend to say that
by an act OF the legislatures passed eight before the
legislature 10 required to perform this Junction. it could
delegate to the house Of representatives alone the power
make an election
MIR. To0MBS, do not contend for any such thing
The power to elect senator is delegated all the
bers In whom the legislative authority vestednot to
part OF them They may may not exercise it, They
may refuse vote they may vote blank as has been done
Tho lopisl hv
shuton consists OF branch branches all the
members composing the body bodies n whom the legis
lave authority is vested the persons perform this
duty under the constitution and is not ia the power of
legislature sitting eight years ago or at any other time
to hsa away this right from any Of them-znot single
10 confer upon any number less than the whole
or to any other persons whatsoever but every State
sure bss the express power to prescribe the mcde which
tbs shall b. exercstd and il is obligatory until re-
peaes believe some few Of The New England States
the only excepton to nss rule but cannot say this posi-
vely constitutions in this country changed so often
that you must read them mohth--once year will
not doto learn the various changes to which they
subjected.
Mr. BU rLER Make an exception Of South Carolina
We never change.
Mr. TooMBs But your stability has been made
cause OF reproach Il 10 said you have free govern
men Laughter Now, after this depression, caused by
the questions whicn gentlemen have put me-
the other points of objection After this joint convention
was formed under the law of Iowa. 1t necessary that
the State should have any other notice than they
had ~ their concurrence in adjournment particu
lar hour ~ any other notice necessary how
Y that there Is nothing in the constitution Of the United
States nothing ia the law of Iowa, requiring it Where
then, DO yon derive the necessity for it2
Another objection which is raised, not by the senate of
Iowa. but by the Committee the Judiciary is that the
senate not being at the meeting OF the convention the
president of the senate nn being present preside
body else could. Tie law however says that in the abb
sence g president of the senate the speaker Of the
house should preside The speaker in the chair be
put the questons he did preside During the meeting it
was moved that there be president pro epore and
cure the difficulty much possible both the speaker OF
the house and the president pro pore signed all the pro-
ceedings We have the signature of the rghul and law
ul officer the speaker OF the house The signature Of the
president pro mpore merely surplussge. There be
40 difficulty on this point
There is another provision of the law which, it is said
was not enforced When the houses met on the first
morning of the joint conventions the president of the
md the speaker of the house each appointed teller Those
elers continued to act from the 18th of December until
he 9th of January, the Saturday when the election
completed Then the senate did 60 the convention
md its teller being of the members of the senate did
not and another appointed by the joint conven
ion. The teers, the senator from South Carolina says
declared judges of the election All their duties are
necessary to the validity Of the election They could
lot judge of the qualifications of the electors According
the constitution oflowa which is before meand II is
so part of the organic structure Of all legislative boz
eseach house is the judge Of the qualifications and cleo
ion and returns of the members OF its body. Who
he members OF the legislature must be determined
each house respectively and when they were admitted
be the members of the legislature they were by virtue
hereof the persons whose duty it elect senator
The sole function Of the teers count the votes re-
or and certify The law provides for calling the names
alphabetically and the elers to put down the name
4 each member and the person for whom he voted; and
he figures