The daily union. [volume] (Washington [D.C.]) 1845-1857, 1857-02-12

not shaken now one proposes disturb it The Judge
rendered no judgment upon IT, because be had right to
render Judgment against the United States The verdict
closed the controversy SO far the claims Of the govern
ment concerned but the claimant compelled
apply to us for the payment Of the balance in his favor
He did so at the time lie has been urging this claim on
Congress for series Of years. and his widow is just
In the poston he the day which this verdict
was rendered There 10 rstce in refusing the interest
Ia my opinion. No private individual would do it. No
private Individual could do it, il allowed to do by
law, with any regard 10 his character reputation
an honest man think the government ought to pay In
all cases where we feel private individuals that the OBJ
legations of honor If not of Justice would render 1t imper
atve on our conscences to pay if the debt
ors. vote that principle in this case and hope the
interest will be allowei.
Mr.. BUTLER. Mr. President should have acquesced in
the decision OF the Senate fur regards the
which was allowed in the bill passed ii before but
this subject came up under circumstances that required
to give little attention to it, and am entirely satisfied
that If we pass this bill with interest violate not only
cardinal principle that has heretofore governed u.s. but
we shall do shall give party who goes through
the process of court and obtains what is called verdict
an advantage over party presenting claim before this
body AN not of those who willing trust the
disbursement OF the money of this government the de-
cision OF jury or any unofficial auditor We ought to be
very guarded to the process which pursue the APP
preparation of public money.
have been here for number OF years. and have seen
claims come of revolutionary soldiers widows and per-
who had money due them for advances made in the
revolutionary war; and have interest refused
them Yes sir in cases where money advanced during
the revolutionary war for The government and it sup
poseu receive interest IT,
almost invariably refused to allow interest On what
ground That if the government to be regarded
an insurance office it was very good investment for the
parties to let the money lie and have interest accumua-
ting on it. 1t is good mode of investment for the Uni
ted States is the best Paymaser they can have. =. w.
Now, sir what attribute of this verdict as it Is called
can give us the right to depart from the rule which we
have heretofore laid DOWN. 1t is said the Jury found SO
and so The jury had right to find H. and therefore it
is finding without authority II cannot be said that
conferred the authority on them to audit these accounts
We have conferred such authority, and would not
trust them. have been committee before whom
questions of this kind have repeatedly come and 1t has been
invariably by that committee considered that any verdict
recognising seof in favor Of individuals
Judic and ought to have authority the decision of
tleman dare say in the progress Of his transactions
with the government ne made incidentally good deal of
money out OF his agency and he accepted this agency
he the risk of abiding by the decisions which prevail
in all our proceedings here afraid that this is
only privileged question: but it is foregone conclusion
that we shall give interest shall vote against it,
Mr. HALE. desire to ask the honorable senator from
South Carolina single question: for my recollection not
exactly like his My recollection is in regard to revoln
onary cases. on which he says interest was always de-
ned that he himself brought forward where paid
interest from the time of the revolution. aude to the
Mr. BUTLER. We never paid dollar of interest,"
Mr.. ADAMS. General Greene's heirs got interest,
Mr BUTLER General Greenes heirs may have got it;
but Mr.. Wgg did not.
Mr. HALE think the senator is mistaken about the
interest
Mr.. BUTLER. l think he got none
Mr.. HALE. will satisfy myself however The fiction
which the government generally refuses pay interest
that the delay in payment is the fault of the debtor in
not making his claim sufficiently apparent to the govern
men, because it always has money and the ID
always in just hapds and always ready to do justice by
everybody whenever anybody satisfies 1t that he has jus
toe on his side That is the legal fiction. The common
law is made up of fctons hut legislation is made up OF
more hcons, think, than tho law. The force of
that bcen however, does not exist ought 1t To have
any weight when the facts which apparent and palpa
b the face of the case contradict the whole Of III and
iDae dofh hair milf yofo
ldches that should excuse the government from paying the
interest has been constantly asking for payment
dld not rise, however, to speak that subject but
as 10 the bearing which this amendment has
apother amendment that wss offered by the honorable
senator from New York Mr SFwARDl regret that that
bill when it adopted and voted against it. But per-
nit me to sayaud wish get the ear of the
from Ohio Mr.. PUGHl this suboct-there is not
in the Senate know there is mott doubt il there is
man out of the Senate who would be willing to 20 further
deny the binding validity of the judgments of this Court
of Clairns than would. ! do not look upon them
nor ssecoa cousins to Judgments look upon
them simply as ttt report of committee who have made
an Investigation under highly favorable circumstances.
That Just exactly the way look upon them and have
never regarded them 90 Judgments and never will 30 re-
gard them was opposed to the amendment of the hon
orebs senator from New York. which hope will be srck
en out Of the bill for the reason that thought putting the
in seemed imply that we di not put
yielded to the force of suggestion that their decision
judgment binding the government To my mind it has
exactly the contrary effect The implication of that amend
ment as it stands is that if do not put in the
amendment wo recognise the dongs OF this Court OF Claims
rs Judgments want to strike out tho amendment for
the very reason that will not recognise them as udg-
ments and will not ppt in salvo to say we do not
vote for them as judgments when vote for bill for
which they have reported With just much proprety
might we ax to any private bill which pass the
strength OF the report of Of committees proviso
that should not be considered giving the force OF
judgment to the report of the committee do not give
it but do not put in such proviso ] am willing that
what do shall go for what it MEANS and that what say
shall go for what it means but am not willing to have
any further inerences from that do wish to ex
clude conclusion by any such proviso rs this
am for paying this debt because think is honestly
due and am for paying the interest because think in
terest honestly due upon every qudated debt after de-
nand made on the government or An individual and
will not member Of the government avail myself of
legal fiction to do what it would be in do
private individual 1t would be in me to hide my
self behind any such techncay to refuse TO pay the in
erest demand honestly due do not believe the peo
pie Of this country desire their representatives here to do
senators what would be mean in them individuals
only speak for myself put up standard for anybody
ase Believing this shall for restoring the bill to
It's original shape, against the pending amendment and
then shall vote against the amendment of the honorable
senator from New York.
Mr.. PUGH Mr.. President rose before only to explain
how personally situated voted against the amend
ment striking cut the interest and understand the
for this bill entire proposition cannot vote for the
amendment already adopted on the motion Of the senator
from New York.
The senator from New Hampshire Mr. HALE seems
somewhat TO have misunderstood | attach no inn
porauce in this controversy to the Judgment of the Court
Of Caimsnone at all. do not think that that court
authority render final udgm That is forbid
len by the law. consider them three commissioners
auditors 10 examine claims against the government
md report to their opinion OF the law and their find