Richmond enquirer. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1815-1867, 1857-02-17

, Mr.. President, you will regard the phraseology OF the
Constitution. your junction goes no further tnan 10
..the President of the Senate sball, in the presence OF
the Senate aud House Of Representatives, open all
the certificates, and then The phrascology changes
and says, land the votes shall then be counted '-n9'
nv YOU, sir, but by US; and, whenever q vote IL chai'
lenSsd, thi. is the point and this is the only place
where q determination can be formed whether or MOI
iii 10 u vote.
MIR. SMITH Of Tennessee Is debate in order
Mr.. MASON, (presidiDg.) The presiding o,noei
would state that, The vote having been counted anu
announced, the functions of the two Houses Assem-
bled for the purpose Of counting the votes are us
charged.
sion. l appeal from that Judgement, forl wish to en-
ter my dissent from the decision of the chair. 90
not think the presiding officer has the right to close Inc
mouths of the Senate and House of Representatives
in whose hands the decision is to rest.
Mr. MASON, (prssiding.) The presiding otheer
was about to state that the Constitution provides that
the President of the Senate shall, in the presence o,
the Senate and House of Representatives open az
the certificates, and the votes shall then be counteat
THE person having the greatest number OF votes LOT
President shall be the President, If such number De
"a majority of the whole number of electors appoint
ed !" and so with regard to the Vice President. lie
concurrent order of The two Houses Provides
THAT the two Houses will assemble in the chamber
of the House of Representatives on Wednesday,, the
18th instant, at II O'Clock, and the President oil me
Senate pro tsmporc shall be the presiding officer; 'ha'
| On6 neFSOn U0 hDDOlulcu q IeI6I Uu Nh''S
aud two on the part of the House of representatives
TO make q list of the votes as they shall be declared
that the result shall be- delivered to the President OF
the Senate pro tcnporc, who shall announce Inc STATE
of the vote and the persons elected TO the two Houses,
assembled as aforesaid, which shall be deemed a decla'
ration of the persons elected President and Vice Prssl.
dent Of the United States, and, together with list o,
votes, be entered on the journal of the two Houses:
Mr.. TOOMBS. l take an appeal from the ue'''
sion of the Chair.
Mr. LETCHER. Will the Chair indulge me for a
single momentl
Mr. MASON, (presiding.) The presiding officer will
be allow ed to conclude what he desires TO state. Inc
presiding officer considers that the only duty imposed
by the Constitution was that the vote should be count
ed in the presence Of the Senate and House oil Kep-
rssentaiives. He considers that that vote has been
counted by the tellers in the presence OF the TWO
Houses, and under the charge OF the presiding ohicer'
The tellsrs have reported that with reference to ONE
Observation-Disclosures vote was cast upon a different
day from that prescribed oy Jaw. LIS NOT .he aGIy
what effect such difference might have upon the vote
of that State. The presiding officer il required TO
! announce the whole vote Us givsn-a duty which he
has discharged-aud also 10 declare who has received
the greatest number OF votes, and il such number
BIZ a majority of the whole number Of electorsi and,
so finding from the list delivered to him by the
tellsrs, he has declared such persons elected President
and Vice President respectively.
Mr.. BUTLER, Of South Carolina. This question
i. one of rather a novel character, and ] should very
much regret to ses il regarded as Il precedent. |
should deemit a most dangerous deviation from the
Constitution and the law that one State should as
sumo, either by act or by insdvertance, or in any
other way, to cast her vole at a tins different from
that upon which the votes were given by the other
States; because if, when electing q Chiel Magistrate
of the Confederacy, the vote should BIZ so equally
divided that one State, by reserving its vote for Il
month or sven a day, with Geographic communica.
ton running through every part Of the Union, would
be able to effect the result, that Stste would become
the umpire in choosing a President. So lar as my
-. \ u- nk -A,rr 70 allan nv, n.
State to be a corps dc resrrre upon such a matter,
and | am very decided that the Chair should not
count the vote of Wisconsin.
Mr.. BIGLER, of Pennsylvania. | am instructed
by the tellsrs to state to the President, and 10 the
Convention that they have not yet signed the certi.
heate, and that they have determined to nflix their
signatures to it only when it sets forth the facts. One
of these facts is with reference to the State OF Wis
eonsin, whose vote was not cast on the day pre-
scribed by law; and the certificate which they will
make will set forth that fact.
Mr.. CRITTENDEN, OF Kentucky. wish merely
to say that the sense Of duty-an honorable sense oil
duty, | have no doubt-upon which the presiding
officer has acted in assuming 10 declare The number
Of votes, involves the privilege OF determining the
Presidential election and saying who shall be Presi.
dent.
Nj. MASON, (pre,iding.) The presiding officer j.
utterly unaware Of having assumed the exercise Of
any such power.
Nj. TOOMBS. / consider that the presiding off
Ger has done 80.
Mr. MASON, (presiding.) The concurrent order OF
the two Houses makes il the duty OF the President oil
the Senate TO announce to the two Houses The state OF
the vote and the persons elected. That duty he has
discharged, and none other.
Mr., ORR, of South Carolina, moved that The vote
of Wisconsin be rejected, and that the tellers be in
structed not to include It'll their count. Suppose the
result depended on the vote of that State. how, he in
auired, would it lie possible for the election 10 be de.
clared until that question sIolld be decided The
Constitution and the Law required that tns two Houses
l.,IJ ,,nat t.yatlar in mint 0pxspnfIon md that IN
their presence the votes for President and Vice Presi-
dent sLould be counted; and it conferred upon them
the power to determine whether they were valid or
INVALID; for 1t would be a mere farce II they were only
called to witness The count.
Mr.. CASS, Of Michigan, desired to submit a single
remark 10 the President Of the Senate, for he did not
consider that the Convention could be addressed.
: How, he asked, can You votel BY the representa-
x tives Of the people or by the representatives Of the
= Statcs1 We cannot vote here; we cannot discuss;
. and, with this ;nsupe.ahle difficulty in our way, all
2 that remains to be done is to adjourn, TO meet in our
= respective chambers, and let tbs Senate OF the Houae
q take up the matter Al. they may think proper. We
{ are ovsrturning the Government and making this n
national convention.
4 MIR. BUTLER. / concur in that. insist upon that
n mode q proceeding. VIC mus: preserve our separate
| organi1 ed s.isteIcs.
Mr. MASON, lpre,idiIg.i The presiding oaeer
3 announces to the Senate thatin his jldgnen. the duty
I that brought them into the House of Representatives
e has been discharged and that they return 10 their
, eSimbsr.
MIR. TOOMBS. ! protest against that order OF the
] presiding officer. We iiaYs e right to determine the
question. I enter my protest.
t Mr. MASON, (presfdingl The presiding othcer
5 il informed by the tellers that they have not yet
Gnished tbsir duties.
MI. DOUGLAS, OF I%iiEcis. rise to state my o5.
, lection to the right Of The teHerS 10 authenticate me
/, certificate until the two Houses have passed upon At
as TO its being a true count l am Wiling mar ,he
Z Senate shSll retire to its own chamber TO consider
3 and determine the question in dispute, but ! DO 80
lemnly protest against the deed bsiug done before We
have had an opportunity Of deciding the quealion.
Mr.. STANTON, Of Ohio. rise to q question OF
/ order. I desire 10 know who is to determine when
3 the business for which this joint convention met has
t been eoneludedl 10 that the business of the presiding
| oEicsr of this convention or is II the business OF the
! body itself? understand that a motion was pend
] ing to adjourn the jcin. convention, and thar; penuing
3 that motion, the President aano-Dced it dissolved.
3 and that the Senate v ould retire. Ii am Sorfest, i
insist that the convention is not dissolved, ana thal II
! the Sonate retire without any vote OF the Dody, ana
! pending a motion TO adjourn, It VIII mol amount 10
9 q dissolution Of the joint meeting.
T Mr.. MASON tpresiding) again quotea the clause
{ of the constitution which, in his Judgment, pre.criDed
3 the only functions that were to be discharged IN Ills
e presence.
MI. STANTON, of Ohio, enauired whether it WAS
not essential to a decision of the question That Inc
I ipotion submitted by the gentleman from Soutn va,
{ rolina iMr. 0nRi should be determined HOW cousd
, the object for which they had assembled be ccnsum.
mated until they ha6 settled the question as to whe.
}, Their the vote Of the State Of Wisconsin shonld or
should not be counted7 He should vots against me
' motion of the gentleman from South caroiliia' Dat
8 the question of the right of the body TO declde upon
it he would not surrender.
. MIR. MASON. (prssiding.) 1t is the opinion OF the
presiding officer ,h;.t no vote can be taken as a JOINT
vote by the two Houses, ana that nc inouoh Gazing
8 for such q vote is in order. The Cnsr' uhe!e'ofe'
rules the motion out of order.
A-. HAVEN, of New York, thought that the Pre-
sident OF the join. convention had very properly an,
the QUESTION was whether they nsd completed that
duty. No certificate had yet been made and signed
and Rentlspen we're at issue as to whether or nor lhe
+ vote OF Wisconsin shonld be counted. lie thought
thst.hat vote should be insiuied in the result; but
E held that gentlemen who believed othsrsias ought 10
be heard upon the subject, and that by some mode