The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1855-03-03
MODIFICATION OF THE USURY LAWS.
Report and Bill Of the Select Committee
THE NEW YORK POLICE BILL,
&C., &c., 80.
NEW YORK LEGISLATURE.
Senate.
ALBANY, March l, 1855.

Senate.
ALBANY, March l, 1885,
EVENING SESSION.
CHURCH PROPERTY
The Committee of the Whole took up the bill relative
to the tenure of church property.
Mr. Crosby took tie floor, remarking that in his
ton in this matter he hoped to be free from all sectaan
bias He only wished TO bear in mind during this dis
cusson that he had to support the constitution
that instrument which framed with the first great
object of dealing out equal justice to aand, taking
that for his guide he sted that through his legsa
tive career he would be found wholly unbiased all
sectarisn subjects But with regard to the bill intro
duced by the Senator from the Thirty first Mr. Put
nsmewith reference to its general principe-that is,
that all property dedicated to purposes shall
be held by trustees not very Objectionable He
denied nevertheless, that the bill in conformity
with the law Of 17S4-the first law that have this
subject The Senator's bin is compulsory, while the law
of 1884 only provides thai it may be lawful for trus-
tees to hold church property for the benefit Of such
church The policy thus established not stringent,
as claimed by the Senator from the Thirty first,
but left with each church the choice Of its own mode OF
government-whether by trustees or other wise Til,
law was confirmed BY an enactment passed in 1913 but
at this time distinction made in favor Of the Epis
copal and Reformed Duth churches which asked for
on the ground that they found Il difficult to conform
tholcs Who complained OF inability to conform to the
Law OF 17S4, but Protestantsthe Episcopal, Associate
that 1917 St. Patrick cathedral in the city OF New
York, and two other churches applet for act
churches in their temporal affairs had beer connected
with tbs cathedral and IL feared that the law was
not sae' mt, ia all when a., was
which fact in itself, he he'd clearly proved that that
church had CONFIRMED with the law Of 1884,
and also with the cfnfImitory one OF 1873 He
took issue with the Senator from the Thirty first
the proprety justice OF that clause OF his bill
which seeks to deprive bishops OF all the church pro.
perty in their hands and vesting it with trustees.
This strikes at that principle of justice and equity which
allows every Of sound and to bestow his property
on whom he pleases and for a specific purpose To IL
lusrate-suppose that in poor community gentleman
steps forward and with his means, has erected
church in which that community may worship Ths
title to the property is WITH him he holds the trust
Eventually he dies, when according to this in
the bill the entire control OF the property would be
placed in the hands of trustees who perhaps, in less
than six months after devote it, through personal
doctrine faith from which it consecrated and
forever intended by the donor. He asked II there
ing Law which not only permits put auihorizes ouch
state OF things Gentlemen should bear in mind that
they are not sent here TO legisats so as to foster
sectarisn prejudice, but rather Tor the SOC pur'
pose of melting out equal justice to ALL Again,
the Senator from the Thirty-hrst says sys
m has grown up in the Catholic Church antagonstic
laws, and sustains this assertion by quoting
from the ceedirgs of the Council OF Baltimore to the
effect thai church erected shall consecraei 10 Ca
thosis unless TIE title the property shall be vested
in the Bishop but the Senator neglected t. read far
condition annexed that such should be the rule only
where system Of trusteeism was not the law OF the
land This decree was made by he Balt Council in
1929. To that council three Of the most eminent law
yers OF the country were invited in order that they
might advise and express opinions as to the validity Of
what the OF that portion Of this particular
decree which the Senator from the Thirty tied?
Acts-dgracfal TO the ma lion and most scandsiou, to
the between the trustees and ths
gregatop in Philadelphia and other places, the imme
date cause Of 1t 1t SHOULD be borne in mind, moreover,
that this council was not c,nvened for Baltimore alone
but for the throughout the whole country
and at ts especial aim va That none OF ~ DEGREES
too they had invited those three eminent lawyers Tor
consultation A. be had before remarked, tae law of
1884 was not compulsory toe mode OF goTernnt was
left optional with each denomination, and, upon the
closest scrutiny he was unable . find anythiag which
formty Herewith But it is the Senator's very bill
which seeks to subvelt TIE law of l7St and make
special mode OF governmen compulsory. 1t Is he-or
his bu-which Is arbitrary, not the Catholic bishops.
With the exception Of the - Louis Church Buflo-he
assumed the Senator's statement Of this case as correct
ali the Catholic church property in different diaces3es
in the State was held by trustees undsputed. He
would ably admit that he laws OF mortman had done
Senators well know that TO parallel car be drawn bs
tween people Of those o countries BY he
who govern P' Themselves And vet the Senator /,
at fault ia his compar son even in this part'cu.
lar fer church property IN Epgani, France aud
and here under the spe,isl act OF 1913 in the
Episcopal Church legs meeting of the vestry be
bed without the presene OF the rector which emphat
cay reues the argument ira. tie policy of this ate
is that the clergy should be entirely disconnected with
the secular AFFAIRS of tie church The policy is that
the affairs shall be conducted in conformity with the
discipline adopted By the church. and it Is false posi-
fOrmity with the spirit Of our State laws Why was it.
asked Mr.. c., that priestcraft powerful and
rampant throughout Europe in ages pastr Simply be-
all the learning and talent confined to
priesthood aud all the ignoran and all the sup sstton
to the masses Whenever ignorance and learning come
OF the latter. This always was and always will be
90 The love of power did not solely pertain to Catholic
prestes. 1t would be forna to exist strongly in
the breasts of Protestant d.vnes, and they would
abuse II much, too But viii this bin obtain
difficulty Certainly not The trustees hold the
church This act then IS no: necessary to confirm their
title The Senator says the black dag hangs it,
and the congregation denied priest. But this
act, any egsla, act the flag restore the
presr Certainly not because all this is matter Of
church discipline over which the Legislature has no
authority. The members had joined that church,
doubteoy, with full knowledge OF all its ordinances
II they had transgressed against its laws they knew
the consequences, and the legislature had right to
interfere.
Mr. PUTNAM replied. After proposing the following
amendments to the bill, upon which the question
not taken the committee reported progress and the Sc
nate adjourned
e sss or e 81 an! ".
deemed pious charitable shall be sutject the provi
spns the FIRST second and third articles Of title
.l s IL. Sss s: % The
lease devise any other use or pap
S TIE a'n but ssif , . sI n % q
prevent any charitable corporation from taking
and holding real personal property tor purpose
for which 10 authorized hold propery nv the
terms Of its charter provided property shall exceed
amount value the limited by its charter nor sh,
be construed a. admitting the validity o. any grant
No estate real personal shall IL
devised, demsed conveyed any corr Grafton body
poiHc person, fer pious religions or oh,rtabe u.es
ssoep, the same be done BY deed viii, duly seiaow
lodged and attested according the th state
sx months before the deoeass the tesator ar
aenor and all dispositions Of property contrary hereto
shall void and the resduary lsatee or devised
next Of kin heirs according law Provided ha, ANY
disposition OF property within said period bona fd made G
full and valuable deraticn, without fraud or cou
son, shall not be hereby avoided
Alta O'Clock.
ALBANY, March 2, 1855.
Mr. BRooKs presented the petition OF large number
A..