The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1855-05-11


For once, however, they bad proposition now bsfor
them to build up institution in leu OF that whici
they would pull down This is question practical u
its lssue and therefore fer the frat time he could co
operate with The Garsonans be proceeded to oppose
the resolution referring to the Northern confederacy
al in the course Of his Argument marked that while
to their duties and easily corrupted Southern men
were incorruptible.
Mr.. BURIFiGH Indignantly )-sIaveholdsrs easily
corrupted too and have 500 900 Of interest in the
slave trade.
Mr.. sSoDGRAss-rhey are incorruptible, while the
Northern men ssuik hhe set of poltroons
Mrs. RosE-Do you think that IL the interest was
tasen away from the South, that toe siavehol
should have no interest whatever in holding slaves that
be would then be the self for the sake Of
the principle OF slavery (Applause
Mr.. sSoDGRAss-I will say this the best answsr
not single collar invested in slaves and who never
expect TO hsve-edncated thsy are the belief of
the Calhoun school, that slavery all right and God
given instituton-are among the most ardent, sincere
unh nching sustainers Of slavery.
Mrs RosE-Ihsy may expect to have some.
Mr. SsoDGRAss-I speak OF persons who have not q
dollar invested IN slavery and expect TO have
Mrs. ABBY KELLY EosrER-I would inquire whether the
white people of the South-the NON white
population Of the South-are not the property in q
very considerable sense OF the
the OF property does not control not only
sa aveb olders?--whether the non.savehoders
not completely subs erven from the very nature OF the
institution, to TIE slaveholdersy
Mr. SNoDGRAss acknowledged that to very great ex-
tent this but stated that the people of the free
States who hsve gone down South much worse, and
place moro barriers In the of progress, than the
Southern people themselves He appealed to the Presi-
dent to protect him from further Interruptions In
swer to some suggestions Mr. Garrison, Mr. g. asked
whether did he think they would have slavery or free
dom IN Kansas in case of the establishment Of North
ern ConfederatiopY
Mr.. GARRIsos-Freedom, of course.
Mr.. sNoDGRAss-I am not go sure Of that Mr.. s. con-
tnued his rsnasrks IN relation to ths palsroonery of
The following persons were appointed the Finance Com
mittee Abby Kelly Foster. Susan y. Anthony, Aaron
NJ; Powell, Rowland johnson, anne Rugsles:
Mr. WM GooDELL teok the floor to respond to the last
speaker. He had not intended to JOIN Ia this debate
but he wished to say, that though he came here
abolitiopst still he opposed to the Northern confe
derscy proposition. He agreed with the remarks which
hif friend Garrison made yesterday, that the Union
could not be preserved without sacrifice Of principle
aad then indeed they had but to
adopt He was not of opinion that that The
argument Of r. Wright proves too much for 1t proves
we can have no connection with slavery men. Now Is
sgreed with the last speaker his sentiments about
Northern and Southern proslsvery men The Northern
The argument OF his friend Wright argument
against all civil government In the first place we would
have-to carry out his ideato coonize all pro slavery
men, all rumseers and all dishonest men; and then
they would have NO need of civil government at all.
(Laughter) Civil government consists in the entire
community, honest or dishonest,
Mr FOSTER asked whether he believed right to enter
into compsct with evil doers for the purpose of
Mr.. GooDKiL That question is based on misappre-
hension. In my idea Of civil government believe that
every man is member Of civil government, whether he
will or not.
Mr.. GARRIsoN.-And every woman too9
Mr.. GooDELL-Yes.
Mr. FosTER-Tben Mr. Garrison is government man?
Mr.. GooIELI-I suppose be is; hope so. (Laughter.)
Mr. G.. proceeded to give his idea Of civil government
He scoed at the Know Nothing idea Of excluding for
eiRnsrs living in the nation
Mr.. GARRIsoN-Anu excluding womenY
Mr.. GooDEIL-Yes, and excluding women, too.
Mr. PHILIIps rose to q question Of order-that the
question Of civil government not before the
ing.
tell the meeting whether he recognized any distinction
between civil society and civil government
M tnrs I, % desired the preceding speaker 4 he
cufsed, to hire hall for the purpo,e. (Applause)
Mr. GooDKLL continued his remarks denying she pro-
position that civil government q compact. He
would not however, bore the convention by going into
long argument He thought however, that the consti
favor OF liberty-tbs Fugitive Slave law bsing swept
away and the clause to the three fths representa-
ton, all the rest was in favor Of liberty.
Mr.. GARRIsoN-Wbat about the clause to suppress do.
mestc ipsprrectionsS
Mr. GooDsLI-Oh, hat is all bugbear in the North
Mr. FOSTER suggested that the words of the clause
that the United states should protect each of the
States against domestic violence
Mr.. GOoDEIL-I thank brother Foster; and that
rscolect that when GerIitt Smith nominated for
the Presidency he said in his pamphlet in reference to
very and that the clause gave the power
put it down. QAughter) He proceeded to argue that
there awsn any OF the slave States authorizing
slavery but that slave property held like any other
property, by common law right.
Mr. FOSTER agsin intimated that the discussion was
in order, and went on himself to make speech
his own hook.
CoIoRrD BRUDpER-(Mr Remond) rose to q point Of
order which that the resolutions offered permitted
ter out of order Their great point the dssou
cn Of the Union and be hoped to hear all light thrown
upon It (Hear, hear and applause
The CHAIR supported the point OF order, and
Mr.. GoodeDl was directed to proceed.
Mr.. GooDEIL continued argue and cite to show
that slavery only existed by municipal Law.
Mrs RosE asked be would dispose of the dstinc-
top made in the constitution, between white and
black men. 1t says precisely all white citizens.
the constitution in my pocket and 1t does not say so.
Mrs RosE-There is another point-the provision
made for three. fiitbs vote Of the Slave states.
Mr.. GooDEIL 1t is not so. IT does not read
know that is the common i'm mpresslon; but what am at
is that very thpgto correct this false impression
There Is nothing in the constitution about slaves
oI ed persons Frederick Douglas eligible for seat in
the o. the United States and to the Presidency
Remond. (Appause) The President can nominate .
slave TO Posmastership even to the Secretary
Mr.. GARRIsoN--I am sure Mr.. Gooden does not want
to trife with the audience.
Mr.. GooDkLI-Certainly not.
Mr.. GARRsoN-1he question Is not 20 the legality
of slavery We DO not ask whether there is any posi-
tive law for slavery in the South. Is not that ques
tic rsse and therefore 1t is not worth while to
eue that What put to you as an honest truthful
is this do you to deny that when the consti
tutcn Of the United States framed II intended
,hst the slavehoders such should represent three
ffths Of their slave population?
Mr., GooDML-Have we evidence that they did
any such thing? daughter
Mr. GARRhoN-Hhat do you believe on this subject2
Mr.. GooDEIL-I am about to show you. When you
prove the illegaty Of slavery you do more than you
think.
Mrs RosE-wi you please give your version Of the
three ffths clausey IAuahter
Mr.. GooDnL--Oh. yes Those who were not considered
freeme n and had right the old Saxon
ideas slieDs and 1t is rule OF legal Interpretation
that this clause applied to all persons who not
titled to vote-alens, &c He went on to refer to
clauses Of the constitution which absolutely op
posed to slavery.
MT. c. g BURLuGH next obtained the floor, and com.
pared the o the last speaker the plea OF
counsel in the historic Of the borrowed kettle to
wit-tbst the bette round when his client returned
i second, that broken when he received H. and
tbirc that he never bad 1t at all daughter
Mr. GooDEIL admitted that there appeared to be dis
crepsncies in bis argument, but contendsi that his
meaning was clear.
Mr.. BURrucH could only Judge from words-he could
not behind them He wished TO show here that they