Minnesota weekly times. [volume] (St. Paul, Minn.) 1854-1859, 1854-09-05
MINNESOTA LAND BILL FRAUD.
Of Select Committee of the House Of
Representatives,
WILLIAM LEE, SWORN.


long, in what capacity?
Answer have been in the Clerks Office over
four years, journalizing, under the Oath rule Of
the House, as regular duty, and such irregular
duties as may be required Of me by the Clerk OF
the House.
Question. When and where did you first see
the original House bill No. 342?
Answer. In the Clerks Office, after it had been
introduced into the House. l recollect distinctly
making a copy of the bill after it was introduced
into the House, which made at the request of
Hon. Mr.. Rice, and, by arrangement afterwards,
delivered it TO Mr.. Stevens. / have no recollec-
ton of the erasure Of the word ''future," in the
third section, then being made in the bill and
think that, had the erasure been made, should
have observed it. And l am certain that the
word s'and'' had not, at the time made the copy,
been substituted for the word "or.'' And fur
Their saith not.
July Is, 1854.
GEORGE CHIPNAN, SWORN.
Question. Are you engaged in the Office of Sec
retary of State; and, if so, in what capacity?
Answer. l am. My Office is called the clerk
of the rolls, and in that capacity have charge of
the enrolled bills which pass the Senate and House
of Representatives. After they are approved and
signed by the President, they come directly to
me.
Question. Did the bill which you now present
before the committee-to wit, the House bill No.
342. entitled s. An act to aid the Territory of Min
nesota in the construction of a railroad therein"
come to you after it was approved 10y the Presi-
dent
Answer. 1t did.
Question. Please examine the third section Of
the act. and state your opinion as to whether any
alteration was made in the same between the two
words constituted" and ''organized," after the
bill had been enrolled.
Answer 1t is very obvious that an alteration
had been made. The word "and'' had been evil
IDENTIFY substituted for some, other word; that is
my opinion. My attention was never called to the
alteration until yesterday. 1t was then directed
to it bv Il gentleman who, suppose, from a re-
mark he made, was member OF the House OF
Representatives. The act is just now as it came
to me from the President; there has been no OPP
portuDity for any such alteration since | received
THOMAS ID. X. HARRIS, SWORN.
Question. Where are you employed, and in
wha' capacity?
Answer am what is called the bill clerk Of
the House of Representatives. | keep book, in
which enter the titles of bills and joint resolu-
tions. also state on that book the names of
members introducing the bills, and whether they
are introduced by leave of the House or by report
of committee. 1t is my duty also to read the
journal every morning, and make minute on the
book, of the action of the House upon such bills,
&C., as have been previously introduced, so that
at a glance the stage Of the measure may at any
time be known.
Question. Look at this bill, handing him orig
nal House bill No. 342, and state your know
ledge as to its history and progress.
Answer. | do not recolect of having ever seen
the particular bill before. Sometimes Mr.. Bar
CLAW the journal clerk, kindly volunteers to assist
me in my duties, and makes the endors ements on
the bills for the Journal at the desk. This hap
pencd to be the OF the kind
WILLIAM PATTON, Sworn.
-,
what clpactv and state whether you ever had
this bill (han;iing him House engroSsed bill No.
342. in your possession; if you have, state what
Won know in regard to the change i'll the third
section, IN substituting the word ''and'' for the
word ..or:' at whose suggestion was it made ?
State all the facts and circumstances connected
with it to your knowledge.
Answer. | am the first engrossing clerk OF the
Senate. While this bill was pending before tn,
Committee on Public Lands i'll the Senate, Gen.
Jones, of Iowa, of the Senate, called on me, and
said that he was informed there mistake or
clerical error in it, As he had understood the Com
mittce on Public Lands of the House Of Repre-
scntatvcs, who reported the bill, and reported it
Will, tiIc word "and'' instead OF the word 'sor,
and wanted to know il it would not be proper for
Inc to make the correction, and stating that if it
could not be corrected the Committee on Pub
lie Lands of the Senate would not report
amendment correcting it, AMI then it would have
to 30 back to the House for concurrence, which
might cause consid crable delay in its passage,
which the friends of the bill wanted to avoid. For
his part he said. he did not see how it could af-
feet the me ming sense of the bill, but as its
friends wished to pass as it was reported by the
committee, he was disposed to CRAFTY them. |
tod him, IA the bill had originated in the House
of Representatives, couli not make the cOrrec
ton, AMI that, if made, it must be done ly the
engrossing CLERK of the House and rs it seemed
to be mere verbal erlor, it was probable, that
on IA representation of the facts By the Committee
on Public Lands of the House to Mr.. Sproule, the
engI oss ing clerk Of the House, he woul make the
correction. lie minated to me, that if it could
be done properly, he would like to have 1t done.
lie said he had understood that Gen. Stevens had
reported the bill to the House, and presumed that
he would state the facts to Mr.. SprOule, the
crossing clerk of the House of Representatives.
| had engrosscd the bill and started over to see
Mi. Sproule. accidentally met Gen. Stevens at
the south door of the rotunla, and called his at
tenton to the sub ect. lie said it mistake
mt finding the word ''or' there instead of the word
sand lie mentioned two alterations he had
made in the original bill-Onc striking out
the word ''future,' and the other was changing
the word .sor' to s. and,'' and told me, | would
find it so. | then told hun in brief the convcrsa-
ton that had passed between Gen. Jones and me,
and proposed that he should go with me to Mr..
Sproule and see about it. We went to the en-
crossing room where Mr.. Sproue was, and Gen.
Stevels represented the facts to Mr.. Sproule, and
said the word .'or'' was IA mistake--that it was
not in accordance with the report of the commit
tee, and ought to be corrected The original bill
was then referred to, and from what overheard
of the ltion, (for at the moment my atten-
ton partially drawn off in conversation with
other gentlemen in the oiice,) understand they
found the word future" had been striker out, as
Gen. Stevens had told me; but that the word .or'
had not been changed to "and,'' us he supposed
it was. and at which he manifested much surprise.
lie stated that he really did not see how he came
to omit that alteration, and until he saw it was
omitted he confident that he had made it. He
said it was the intention of the committee to make
the change. or that he had approved the change,
and that he thought it ought to be done. Mr..
Sproule then said, will go and see Col. Forncy
about it and he, Gen. Stevens, and myself, went
into Col. Forney's room together.
Gen. Stevens stated the facts to Col. Forney,
and said that the correction ought to be made if
it could be- TO whom also stated the substance
of what Gen. Jones had said tn me concerning
the bill. Col. Forney turned to me and asked me
what the practice, in such cases, was in the Sem
ate. | told him that, at the request of the COM
mittee who reported the bill, verbal alterations
not affecting the sense Of the bill were made
Col. Forney then, in an under tone, repeated over
the words Z" constituted organized "consti-
tuted and organized" and said, why really do
not that it affects the sense of the bill at all
and as it was the intention of the committee that
1t should be "and,'' and as the object of the
change seems tn no Solev m pravept delav I think