Minnesota weekly times. [volume] (St. Paul, Minn.) 1854-1859, 1854-09-05

ing them ana nave tnem READ TO US II he cannot
be found, we make them out as we'll as we can,
rection. Again, in amendments, often an UNI
important word, but one necessary to the compile
ton of the sentence is left out through the haste
in which amendments are sometimes drawn up
AS an example, an amendment was offered to
the light house bill in this manner; ssto be OK.
pended under direction of the Sec'y of Warp
it written in the engrossed bill thus s'to be
expended under the direction of the Secretary of
war 20 thus putting the word ssthe'' twice, and
writing the word "Secretary' in full instead of
abbreviating it, as in the original amendment.
In this very bill (the Minnesota billy the word
s'roads'' occurred in the original in two places,
though it contemplated but one road. While en-
crossing, or examining it after engrossment,
perceived it, and taking the original in my hand,
went to Mr.. Rice or General Stevens, and point
ed out the error he said there was but one road,
and accordingly made it so. 1t would be almost
impossible to get along accurately without con-
sulting members in those ways. In the particular
case under consideration (the substituting word
and for sorry did not consult General Stevens,
he first consulted me. We never change an ap-
preparation of money: and during the session
refused, and Colonel FOrney refused, to alter an
engrossed bill, becauses considered the altera-
ton desired to be material.
Question. Was not the word s'or," in the orig
inal bill, written plainly?
Answer. l thought so it was plain enough
for me to read, although it run into the word
g organized" so as to appear one word, thus
CONSTITUTED ororganized'' After what occurred,
felt authorized to, and did, make the alteration
desired in the engrossed bill, the original bill,
and, think, in the enrolled bill 1t is our habit,
as soon as bill passes the House, to enroll it at
once, that, if it passes the Senate Immediately,
there may be no delay on our part in its passing
through the usual necessary forms to become a
law. 1t is therefore very likely that or the other
clerk either enrolled it the day it passed, or that
l took it home with me that evening, and enrolled
portions of it at my house, and that the other
clerk (Mr. Martin) finished it the next morning.
1t is very likely, therefore, that the word or I"
was in that bill, and had to be changed to accord
with the engr 0ssed bill. All the enrolled bills
are deposited in the Department of State; and if
l had the act in question l could tell at once
whether it was so altered. enrolled some por-
ton of it; cannot say whether enrolled all Of
it. fixed it up for the committee; and if there
is an alteration in it, it is in my handwriting.-
After bill passes both Houses, the enrolled copy
is delivered to the Committee on Enrolment for
examination. They compare and examine it by
the engrossed bill. This enrolled bill appears, by
the entry on the back, to have been delivered to
Mr.. Green, chairman of that committee. 1t then
passed finally from my keeping. The alteration
of the word COR" into /" and' was made before
the bill passed the Senate; on that point am
certain.
Question. How, then, did it come to be printed,
in the Senate, with the word cor" in it?
Answer. That is easily explained. Immedi-
ately that a bill comes to the Senate from the
House, an order is generally made to have it
printed, and the clerk Immediately either makes
copy of it or sends the original bill to the print
er that evening If it was printed that evening,
(the day it passed the House,) as was very proba-
bly, the case, of course it was printed with the
word {" ORR in it. Mr.. Buck can give more posi-
tive information on this point. Mr.. Price is the
clerk in the Senate who is charged with having
their orders for bill-printing attended to.
Question. Were MIR. Stevens and General Pat
ton frequently in your room in regard to the mat
ter?
Answer. Mr.. Stevens came into my room on
the subject but once, l think. General Patton
and talked of the matter several times such
is my impression. AS engrossing clerk Of the
Senate, he comes into my room frequently.
Question. Did any person but Messrs. Forney,
Patton, and Stevens talk with you in relation to
the alteration, previously to its being made?
Answer. No one, that | can recOllect.
Question. After the alteration was made, when
did you first hear anything more on the subject
Answer. Last Saturday.
Question. Did you recollect of any case where
a material alteration made in an engrossed
bill, and an enrolled one, after the passage of
such bill by the House, excepting as changed by
order of the Senate or House?
Answer. | have altered an enrolled bill where
the Committee on Enrolment or have discovered
a discrepancy between it and the engrOssed bill !;
the former must correspond with the latter In
this particular case (the Minnesota billy no such
state of affairs, strictly speaking, occurred. The
change was made in the enrolled bill before the
eng: Ossed bill passed the Senate. Had the bill
not been enrolled Immediately, it would have been
enrolled with the word &c and' in it, and no al
teration would have taken place; but being en-
rolled before the engrossed bill was altered, the
word "or," matter of course, had to be
changed to &c and,' to make the enrolled bill cor
respond with the engrossed bill. The point is as
to the alteration in the engrOSsed bill, for being
made in that, it followed, matter Of course,
that the other had to be made to conform to it, if
enrolled, or to be copied accurately from it, if
not enrolled. We often change enrolled bills so
as to make them correspond with the engrossed
bills. For instance, in copying them we sometimes
omit words which have to be inserted, or words
are written wrongly, or words are repeated; and
in such cases we erase the wrong word and insert
the right word, or erase without filling up the
blank. In regard to this enrolled bill, did no.
thing more than l would do, and have done re-
peatedly, in regard to other enrolled bills-make
it correspond with the engrossed bill. This is the
second Congress in which have been employed
as engrossing and enrolling clerk.
As to the word {" FUTURE" in the Sd section of
said bill, l am certain it was erased in the bill
before it was presented to me for engrossment,
which, as have before stated, was before it was
presented to the House.
DANIEL BUCKs-ExAMINATIoN CONTINUED.
Question. Have you had any conversation with
Colonel Forney in regard to the change or altera-
ton of this bill, as above referred to?
Answer. have not, until yesterday, the 23d
instant; then called on him and stated that
had understood the matter was to be brought be-
fore the House. He then said the alteration was
made at the request of Gen. Stevens that Gen.
Stevens had stated to him that he had intended
originally to have used the word &C and" instead
of the word "or,'' and being informed that it
was customary to make such alterations, he, Mr..
Forney, had consented, or told Mr.. Sproule to
make the alteration.
Question. How long have you been in the
Clerks Office?
Answer. Since lS43.
Question. During your service there, has it
been customary in that Office to change bills, by
the clerks, after they have been engrossed, 70
conform to the alleged intentions of the member
drafting or introducing the bill /?
Answer. l have never been employed as en-
crossing or enrolling clerk regularly; but it has
been always customary to change bills SO as to
IN Ike them grammatical-so as not to alter the
sense or meaning.
Question. Have you ever before known ma
terial change or alteration made by clerk, or
any one, in a bill after its engrossment, upon the
application of a member of the House, or any