The daily union. [volume] (Washington [D.C.]) 1845-1857, 1854-04-01

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while up, beg leave to reply 10 my friend from North
Carolina
Mr.. DOUGLAS. ! cannot yield the floor for a reply
| Mr. CLAYTON. | only wished TO say word
! Mr., DOUGLAS | do not understand that the Gads-
den treaty was under discussion when THIS motion was
made.
Mr. CLAYTON. Did the gentleman hear the debaei
Mr.. DOUGLAS. | DO not think il could be before the
Senate. Il was not pending question, and therefore
was not before us, motion was made TO proceed 10
the consideration OF executive business The purpose
may have been TO confirm the nomination Of consul al
Dublin, or a postmaster IN some place Inc question
was, simply, shall proceed to ihe consideration OF
executive business II was no business that was
| under discussion. There no busness before us IT
motion to proceed 10 the consideration of business
Therefore, this is not to whch an application oil
| this rule be made This rule applies TO cases
where there is business pending and under discussion
member rises in his place and suggests that the DIS
cussion is not proper in open session. Upon that
suggestion he can have The doors closed until the
session can be determined Otherwise any senator can
break up your sessions at any time by suggestion
that the public interest requires an executive session.
and asking have the doors closed for purpose and
when you get into executive sesso may be found that
the public interest reerreap was the confirmation OF an
Indian agent among ths|CAmanches A senator may
think that is matter OF great Importance he wants Inc
Indian agent confirmed Perhaps he is going home, and
il important in his estimation that the confirmation
srucon shall be given to the rule that senator
override the whole Senate and break up al any lime he
discussion that Is going on. when perhaps aler ciosrg
the DOORS discovered that the business IS very lmma-
teal and unmporan? In regard to the present business
TO be transacted in executive session do not pretend but
that it is important but am showing what may be The
practical result of the rule if this construction s put upon
it. think the rule must be restricted to pending ques,
tons under discussion the the motion made, and
then the only question will be the proprie'y OF that ds
cueson taking place IN open or IN secret session. go
| Mr.. BAYARD If | could be surprised at any differ
ence OF opinion among men upon any supec cerlahly
should be surprised at the opinion expressed in reference
TO this rule by the senator from North Carolina lMr
BADGER] and the senator from Illinois, Mr. DouGLAsl
II seems to me too plain for argument will con-
at hc husnesH under discussion at
the time when the motion is made by any senator on MS
responsibility TO shut the doors, stating that 10 his opn-
ion the business required secret discussion The senator
from Illinois says this is motion 70 80 mo exeouIse
session. and that is not business, within the meaning OF
the rule Upon what ground then, ask nun; ana ~
motion was made to 90 into executive SESSION.
il resisted the ground that other busness-the
homestead or the Pacifc-ralroad bill-was entitled to
priority over any business coming up in executive ses-
sion The offered on one side were, mat Inc
homestead bill and the Pacific railroad bill were import
ant measures. The advocates of those bills could give
their reasons and, though there might be abundant rea
sons given why the business to be transacted IN execu
tive session was more important than either OF .ness
open his lips and declare even what business was lnal
up in executive session. In order. tnere-
FORE get fair discussion OF the question as to winch
was entitled to prionty-as TO which was the most indls
pensable Affecting the interests OF the country al
large-whch is question OF business OF me oehaIe,
and not OF lawn order TO prevent the discussion
from being one-slded entirely my colleague says 70
the Senate that he is not allowed TO discuss his
| side OF the question IN open SeD0es anu, d0 40
necessary tha. il should be discussed in order to de-
termine the propre,y Of going into executive session,
he that the doors be closed he gives 1t as nus
opinion, and upon his responsibility as member OF the
Senate that The discussion which requires secrecy
Now when you close your doors upon his monon, not
going into executive session, but going INTO secret s
son for the purpose OF discussing that motion which the
rule requires you 10 do upon the allegation OF senator
if il should out that he only wants particular Ia
voe confirmed be would meet the censute OF the Sen
ate. | do not suppose any senator would make mo-
ton upon that ground But you cannot determine peiore
you have shut the DOORS what heerounds are ana when
you shut the doors, you do deermne Then Snulung
the doors s gong into executive session. ls Tor the
purpose Of debating the question which, on ihe allegation
Of the SENATOR II requires secrecy 70 debate me senator
stands upon his responsibility IN that allegation,
and be must suffer la the judgment OF hs compeers II
be makes the motion upon frivolous grounds You
have no right TO that u s made upon frivolous
grounds until you have shu, the dpors and heard state
men as 10 what the grounds and what is the char
ac,er OF the business which tue gentleman says requires
you should go into executive session iof Inc purpose
OF dsposng OF H. in preference your homestead bills,
or your railroad bills which may be matters OF great I'M
por,ance 10 ihe country -uaalt mat unless 'ne mo
tive session business member has night 70 ds.
cuss i-hal you cannot discuss that which Is not bust
ness Of the Senate and to conhne !ne word business
merely the passage OF ala@, giving the word dii-
ferent meaning from its usual sgnihcaon and one 10
1 which il is by no means enuued II ihe quesuon OF
priority OF business is question open TO debate as
has always been considered ~ this body, then, say
/ is business OF the Senate, =.
! Mr TOUCEY | do not rise FOR the purpose OF dis
Il
sion 1t needs only statement oil the oeclsoh OF me
Chair TO arrive at the conclusion whether that decision
was correct not. The gentleman iron virginia moved
10 go into executive session. While that mouon was
pending before the Senate discussion sprang up, and
The motion was debated by several members IN opposition
TO it. Upon the suggestion OF the senator IRON virginia
whether that discussion in order the Char DECIDED
tha, il was in order TO discuss that question; that upon
the motion that pending II was in order TO present
the considerations that presented IN reference 70
three other very important bills, as 10 whether lney WERE
not entitled TO priority The discussion wsht or. he m
senator from Virginia then moved that tne oools oe
shut and suppose, for the obvious reason hat
that discussion only one SIDE cosd pe preseh'eo
OF the question then under debate lhose VINO were IN
favor OF going iao executive session were bo' aoe 70
reasons They could not represent TO the senate
The importance OF the business which was pending IN
executive session. because they were IN open session
They therefore demanded that pending the discussion OF
that motion the doors should be closed Now, II un-
der.tand the decision of the Chair II was that motion
to 20 into executive business under discus
sion
| The PRESIDENT. Certainly.
! Mr. TOUCEY "On a motion made and seconded 10
shut the doors OF the Senate the discussion OF any
business which may, in the opinion OF memoet, re-
uure secrecy the President shall direct the gaery 10
| be cleared Now, the Chair has simply decided ihat
the discussion Of that motion wastb discussion Oh busi
s,nes. pendng Suppose | had risen in my place and
manfred of the Chair what the business pending the
Chair would have replied is the motion OF The senator
from Virginia to go into executive session 1hat was
business-and mos, important business-pendng pe-
fore the Senate think IT is obvious that the DECISION
of the Chair right and that the rule Is apphcaoe 10
the motion to go into sxeoutve session. as well s 70 any
other business OF the Senate Certainly hs, we are
{xay.nH N