The daily union. [volume] (Washington [D.C.]) 1845-1857, 1853-04-12

nesota where one individual collect them, while
thes could never perhaps be collected here All that IS
asked is that their testimony may be taken IN Whiting, to
be broug h here FOR the action OF the Senate.
Mr. MALLORY would suggest for the consdera-
ton OF Tie from Wisconsin, question OF law,
whether if confer the power upon single member OF
the body 10 act commissioner, he obtains any auhor
lily under to compel witnesses TO attend and give Their
testimony and whether false swearing under such CIR
cunsances would be punishable perjury or not IL Is
doabtal my mind whether persons could be punished
for false swearing under such circumstances. question
further whether il would not be eminenily proper for
US. ii confer the power on single member 10 act
in this after the adjournment OF Congress, 10 pre-
scribe the mode oil taking The tesiimony how the oaihs
are 10 be administered what form should be used and
whether parties IN interest should be competent witnesses
es or moi; for some States they competent, and
the matter left 10 their credbilily and in others, they
Incompetent appears 10 me that the confer
ring Of the power markedly, IN the way proposed, is not
proper, and would not meet the end desired.
Mir. SEWARD. Ii seems 10 me, sir, that if we cannot
trust committee Of this Senate with discretion TO take
testimony upon question beipre them. we had better dis
band our committees and discharge them from service II
the Committee on Indian Affairs inconpee
tain the rules and the practice OF courts and OF paamena
~ bodies, IN The investigation OF cases oil aud then they
are M Tor nothing aud quite unfit they be-
have called them 10 discharge this very trust
Mr. MALLORY. ! would like 10 ask The senator
questions and that suggested before, whether false
swearing, in giving testimony before the individual who
should be sent as member OF the committee, would be
punishable as perjury or no. II is question not as 10
whether The committee would be competent TO take esl
mony that. OF course, s conceded; but whether you
could punish individual for false swearing in such
case.
MIR SEWARD. Twill answer the learned gentleman
thai suppose perjury, under the laws OF the Uhied
States committed before any person authorized by the
Senate OF The United States testimony under oath
would be punishable. There is act OF Congress, as
understand, to ihat eject IL does not alter the all
whether there be one or several persons TO take
testimony The Senate may delegate this power
well as TO three or live. Then back 10 the
question suggested by the senator from Virginia, Mr.
HUNTER whether il is User and whether il is better and
safer refer, leave this subject 10 the Executive than
10 exercise the power ourselves. From the history OF free
institutions, from the history OF Paamens in Eng land
down 10 ibis day, know that the duty OF legislative
inquiry into abuses IN the executive department Of the
government has been one Of the highest trusts reposed in
The legislature 1t is the theory OF the English govern
ment; it Is tae theory OF our government
Mr.. HUNTER. would ask lbe senator II have OBJ
eced 10 legislative inquiry, OF whether the objection has
not been 10 continue using the power OF The committee
during lie recess! have admitted the pfoprieiy OF
legislative Inquiry by The Senate while The Senate is in
Mr. SEWARD. | understood the senator 10 say that
he wished the resolution might not pass because he aut-
cpated an inquiry By the more appropriate authority and
Mr.. HUNTER More proper during the recess
MIR. SEWARD One word, them upon the point to
which the senator narrows he question We have
menced The peslgalion we have assumed the respon
sIblity Il is legitimate. We have arrived at the at-
tournament, and unable by reason OF tina, adjourn
ment, 10 prosecute The investigation to Ills close Shall
wesuspend u Tor The purpose OF Iesumng again al the
next session OF Congress- No, because there will have
been delay which will be injurious. Then, must we
suspend, and trust that the Executive will take up and
complete The investigation which we have commenced
But the Executive has direct responsibility apon the
subject he has assumed none ! do not know that the
subject has been brought before him We could cal
coate that The Executive wo1d assume The RESPONSE
bllty and perform The duty unless request hn 10 do
it. Now, II were 10 choose the tunctonary TO whom
to delegate the power, and who would prosecute this
subject with the greatest and with the highest
oil responsibility, should prefer The Committee Indian
Affairs 10 the Executive. Ii is true here might be abuses
by The committee. and so there might be by The Execu-
tive Tie person whom we delegate will be responsible
TO al the next session, and he will be responsible TO
the public. What he does could be done in secret
The very fact should attempt do secret would
be Impeachment OF himself, which would forfeit his
clam 70 Tue o. ee people q ~ .~
openly Tor there viii be witnesses and If they have good
ground 10 complain OF his management OF The subject
they will come here and complain 1t seems TO me we
throwing unnecessary difficulties in the way OF this
resolution tue only effect OF which difficulties will be 10
delay the investigation OF the which regard for
public justice requires should be made soon.
Mr. BU ! LER There has been one question suggest
ed in tins discussion upon which | wish TO say word.
WHAT'S pelufy depends upon legal provisions Strictly,
there such hing knowing what perjury is by the
laws OF the United States, except by positive enactment
There are good many acts upon the subject 10 say
what rs and what rs not perjury know by express stat
ute committee OF Congress has the right 10 administer
oath, but il is committee, ia pnide otfeu but
when the committee ~ dlsoTganzed and sIugle mem
Der is delegated with the power do not believe there
is any such ining IN the law, lido not believe II is in
the contemplation OF the statute that the power be
conferred on single person as a representative oil
COMMITTEES. have no doubt that the honorable senator
from Wisconsin would perform The duty proposed by
The resoutioD Of collecting testimony, IN good faith aud
with mpauIaIlty but we know, Mr.. President, how
jealous parties OF having testimony taken with the
right Of examination and examination. We kno.
very much insisted upon by all parties, whether the
testimony be taken before commissioner three,
or FIVE and should guard this right OF investlea-
ton W all The ordinary rules which have heretofore
been observed. say, with The honorable senator from
Virginia, that il is very dangerous precedent TO have
this continuing power OF the committees in the recess OF
the Senate. objected very much TO other committees
being appointed, iOT the Senate ss long enough without
then. | expsct that next year we shall be IN session
pretty nearly all the yeur suppose that at that lime this
investigation will go on. lfit Is TO go on in The mean
time, perhaps il ought be under the Executive author
lily 4 30 moi know whether II could constitute such
commission as would have the power to impose legal
oath. | am not prepared TO say, but am perfectly
that there such thing in the contemplation OF
the committee di.organzlng itself and making
OF It's members us representative 10 do the busl-
ness
Mir COOPER | have not looked 10. day al the stat
ute but remember very well tba in the other House.
occasion, did look the law the subject, and
satisfied myself that under the authority given 10 CON-
mee TO investigate and send Tor persons and papers and
take testimony, right 10 appoint commissioner 10 take
the testimony is given Ia The case 10 which aiude
commissioner appointed three several times. The
late senator from Tennessee Mr.. Bell chairman oil
son IN hstchocbes, Louisiana, to take testimony AIR
Adams afterwards Chairman. He continued the
commission. AT subsequent period became chsir-
man. and ISSUED commission under the authority OF that
statute This is my recollection OF the statute a. IN
derstpod IL years ago and have no doubt That under
1t the committee will have the power 10 appoint person
10 take the testimony.
Mr.. CHASE have no doubt that committee, during
the sitting oil he Seaale can authorize one OF ITS mem