The daily union. [volume] (Washington [D.C.]) 1845-1857, 1852-04-28

mole written 10 the head OF department by the senator
Ii seems 10 me il difficult to state the Two cases without
seeing their total and irfeconcdbe difference. do not
want 10 prolong this discussion. All have TO say 10
repeat what have said. that il the rule OF the senator
fairly interpreted. excludes the considslan9n OF TINS
amendment IL is high time The rule was altered.
Mr. GWlN think IL has been made perfectly clear
not only by the arg ument OF the from North Car
oaa. M, BApcER but by tha. q .ne senator ,ln IRON 20
order. lake this gound-and took II elsewhere, ana
think il is coec-hat there necessity Tor an es-
innate in this at all that the Finance COMMITTEE can
report any amendment to any appropriation bill Oh wncn
a majority OF that committee are IN favor NO conmhee
Of the Senate can report an APPROPRIATION oi except ns
order is raised intended to limit the amendments that
were offered appropriation bills. and this Limitation was
looked upon at The tune as being proper Whea ne es
the Committee Naval Affairs to have brought up an
amendment upon because then the estimate was necessa
sary but subsequently, when the question brought up
in the Finance Committee-ihe committee that has right
to originate appropriation bills, the COMMITTEES that could
have originated this deficiency BILL or any other OF that de-
scripton brought before the Senate-there was no ne
cesslty for an estimate We had right to strike out the
whole original bill after the enacting clause and bring IN
substitute for for it, or bring entirely new bill III
take the round that the Committee on Finance bring
in appropriation bill That is the view which have
taken oil il. and which. am sure the Finance Commit
tee have taken of it, We have had II under serious con-
s,deraon whether il not duty to bring IN por-
oa OF the appropriation bills, and not have them all
thrust upon US al the close OF the session as heretofore.
With that view of the case, have entertained
doubt that the Committee on Finance have power al
any time TO make any appropriation Independent OF any
estimate .
| The PRESIDENT The Chair in justice to himself,
will take this opportunity OF saying to the Senate that
when this proposition was made at the last session by
the senator IRON Maryland, Mr. PEARcE,1 and when
objected upon the ground that there was no est
mate, the Chair, without any hesitation, decided mat
could not be received; that was out OF order ma.
by the Senate The letter afterwards produced by the
honorable senator did vary the at all was sim
ply letter written to senator hypolhetlcay, ana IN ils
yuh
The question here that under ordinary circum-
stances the Chair would have decided but inasmuch-
as the Chair has stated alreadyas upon several occa-
sons estimates furnished upon the call OF senator's have
been considered being within the rule be fet unwil-
ling give construction to il which would preclude the
Senate from entertaining amendments believed by them
be in ORDER and excluded by the scope OF the rule
which they have adopted Although the estimate not
exactly made by the Postmaster General in his report yet
in that report he designates arrangement which would
involve this appropriations. Owing TO the regulation
mentioned by the senator from North Carolina, they were
compelled to apply to The head OF the Navy
say whether, being in conformity with communica,
ton made by The head OF the Post Office Department and
thus far carried out by the head OF The Navy Department
it such an estimate brings the amendment strictly IN
order--or whether it is prohibited under the rule The
Chair therefore, preferred that the Senate should decide
for itself although ordinary cases, he would not De
disposed 10 shrink from the decision OF any question that
4 Mr. BRADBURY. As this is question Of order OF
some interest. desire to submit single suggestion Is
it not too late to make the objection,
i Mr. MANGUM, lin his seat) The Chair has decided
The PRESIDENT The question can only be made
when the amendment comes up for consideralion-ior
that is the first time when It is presented to the consld
er alton of the Senate an amendment to the bill
| Mr. MANGUM. II | understand it, the Chair con-
sders il in order.
The PRESIDENT The Chair left it for the Senate
TO decide, the rule they had adopted, whether the
circumstances under which the estimate is furnished by
the Navy Department do do not bring 1t within the
rule, that the amendment may be offered
Mr. "A PTe9lQent,
desire the Senate shall act undersandngy upon
this matter hereafter, as well for the government OF
my own action, | call for the yeas and nays.
i The yeas and nays accordingly ordered
il MIR BRADBURY resumed. remarked that this was
a question OF some Importance is important as gu.
ding our action in the future. 1t is therefore desirable
that our decision may not be such as to embarrass US
The rule which reference has been made declares that
no amendment proposing additional appropriations shall
be received" Sc Now, do we receive an amendment
which comes to from committed Have we mol
already received that amendment The Committee on
Finance have repored-as saith rule authorized them
to do-an amendment the bill. That bill and amend
ment have been received and printed Is II then ques-
ton whether shall now receive il IL seems TO me
that this single OF the subject shows that the rule
10 which reference has been made confined to the class
OF amendments proposed by Individuals and not coming
from a committee, Otherwise we might lind ourselves
in this dilemma the House might omit, Tor instance, TO
provide any contingent fund for the Senate and the Com.
mittee on Finance would be precluded from reporting,
and the Senate from considering matter that s ndispen-
sable therefore regard this as matter entirely aside
from those where estimate is required.
q Mr. BORLAND Before the question is taken wish
TO call the attention OF the Senate thing did not
observe il so closely al first have now seems to
me that the case presented by this letter OF the Navy De-
par,men which is called estimate, il OF itself SUM-
cient 10 show that the proposed amendment Is not IN
order The letter says:
nave the honor to state that the estimate prepared
thi, department the 2sth uliimo in compliance with
request OF the 9Th utimo, confined TO the In
service plated for the hall year commencing
the LIST Of January last supply deficiencies OF existing
appropriation for said sryoes At the rate OF
S33 900 per trip, In lieu OF the present allowance III be
the intention OF Committee Naval Affairs OF the SEN
tract for mail between New York and Liverpool,
from the lst OF January, 1884, and to authorize increased
that date then the estimate TO supply the de-
hcency of existing appropriations, furnished on the 18th
ultimo, erroneous, and should be follows" NO.
II appears from that that the estimate furnished by the
department altogether for different amount and for
a different purpose The Secretary says that, II 1t
be proposed do something else then il is necessary that
we should give more money. He does not ask IL He
does not recommend IL Our action here il adopt this
amendment, viii not be in pursuance OF estimate
the rule requires
i Mr. RUSk desire to say word with regard 10
this Offering OF amendments in pursuance OF estimates.
Are we the mere registers OF the DEGREES OF the depart
mentsi II the department makes estimate, cannot
cut il down or incrense III II 10 be the mere
registers OF the DEGREES OF the departments pursuing them
the very letter. then the construction OF the rule may
4 be right o 4t
Mr. BoRLAND. do not wish TO be misunderstood
upon this subject The senator from Texas clearly mis-
that should be the registers OF the DEGREES OF the
executive departments. was merely following the rule
which, long is the rule, Is the law by which we
are 10 be governed The department does ask this