The daily union., 1852-08-14


have said 10 fairly, " The treaty is and so. II
has been practically construed otherwise ior Than
quarter OF century; but that construction Is wrong
and now we are gong TO terminate H." Why. saw
report 10 the papers OF to-day believe, that the bnhsn
minister has prevailed upon The btish admiral 10 sus
pend his orders Wha, ordersi Would any secretary
OF State ask British mDister. any Bflils minister
ask Butsh admiral TO suspend orders requiring hilh
prevent irepasses upon the grounds slated ~ he urea
" iiselil II is impossible Well. then, what - ne 70
suspend To suspend for moment IN order. pethss, 70
40 into negotiation, our right TO hsh IN he pay OF rnhuy
and other large bays. We might as wen .iam 20 nave
the right 10 suspend fishing on the Atlantic coast
That the only point there u between the two nations
Mr. BUTLER. have iorborne hereloiore taking any
part in this debate believing that IL would be much safer
or the Senate when has consider this subject 10
slider upon full information, which you propose TO fur
nisb By report from iae committee Information has
been called for from the President and suppose Is upon
tables and when this subject shall have been refer
red 10 the Committee on Foreign Relations, am IN hopes
that shall have something than conjecural mat.
ter upon which we TO deliberate.
Now, If il be supposed that can say anything 10 slim
ulae the feeling for war between this country and Great
Britain, that will prove TO be mistake. believe il would
be OF the most caamous that could take place
between any two nations at any period OF history Why
sif, Great Britain has no temptation interest," as far as
can see 10 make war upon the United States by ihva-
SION Her power Is not protected by standing armies-by
warlke preparations, like the continental powers OF Eu
rope She does not need like Russia to have standing
arnies like France, 10 have large standing army TO
stand around and guard-I may say the throne. The
basis of her power is much broader than that hers is
civic power founded in the great policy OF civilization
and ours is the #
But rose to say that il not my purpose To enter
into this debate at this ime because | not fully pre-
pared 10 express my views upon this subject for the
that have not had the materials upon which 10 form
such opinion as wish 10 publish to the country. And
must say that if discussions OF this kind to 90
here with view TO influence negotiations and mould
the public mind for war; am opposed TO them. And !
do not hesitate TO say that would deplore war with
Great Britain unless the honor and interests OF the
try required it, Ii conjecture is to be INDUCED in, am
rather inclined to think that Great Britain is more dis
posed TO give up her exclusive night TO the fisheries ihan
In rata .e p,1na and at
so far from its being advantage TO American usher
men to be confined within the limits defined by the treaty
itself suppose il cannot be doubted that they have de-
rived the incidental advantages OF fishing with the lines
from which they prohibited. That seems 10 be ad-
milted. And suppose that the thing that could
happen TO American fishermen would be 10 conhne them
to their rights, in many respects If 10 indulge in
conjecture, would be 10 suppose that in giving up 10
Americans an enlargement OF their rights, Great Britain
had in view some equivalent, and that equivalent IT may
be, TO be ceded al the expense OF the interests OF that
portion OF the country that represent Blu, do not
know that, and have 10 indulge in conjecture
where there are no certain facts upon which TO found
opinion.
| have gone beyond what | intended I will now
undertake to define what regard as the true issue
before the American people, and shall do in such Ian
guage that hope II cannot be mistaken. The whole
question turns, lawyers would say upon issue 10
marine miles al their mouth. Now, If TO try the
title of Great Britain TO these different which have
been indicated; if there process by which her title
TO these different seas were TO be tried, doubt very
much whether the right which she has acquired under
the treaty OF 1918 would be much stronger than she
had independently of that treaty, by the law of
nons or The natural law so eloqueny advered to by my
friend from Louisiana, Mr.. SoULEl And we cannot
disguise the fact that We reduced 10 stand upon
Our title under this treaty. You cannot 60 beyond
the ire atty, so far as regards that matter. Bot the
question before US is narrowed down still more and
that is, to the question of what is OF the bays and
haTbors OF Great Britain the subject is narrowed down
10 that And IN another point OF view 1t might perhaps
be question before competent court to decide whether
Great Britain aad the United States could say that The
RaV should he "a hay WOulI bp
competents Would il be competent for these two pow
duly represented 10 say that the Bay OF Fundy should
be British bays But shall express no opinion upon
that subject So far il regards the czens of both
countries, perhaps could control them. And then The
question recurs entirely upon the proposition what is a
British bay what is one OF her Britannia Majesy's
bays think must not only be bay upon the coast
o New Brunswick and Nova Scotia running into those
countries, but il must be of those bays that be
regarded British bay Now, sir, that Is the issue IL
mus be British bay upon the coast OF New Brunswick
and Nova Scotia and the question TO try title is reduced
10 that because demonstrate, that so lar regards
Newfoundland, negolaors have expressly negotiated
that fishermen should have the right not only 10 take
h.h upon The shores OF Newfoundland, but also 10 dry
them upon these shores except IN some particular places
where was negotiated that they should have the hight
10 take FISH and dry them upon the shores until that
portion of the coast became settled and then the question
was 10 be determined by and fully stipulated tor under
treaty Them this being the FACT this part OF the issue Is
certain that so Tar as regards The coasts oil Newound
laad and perhaps the coasts OF some ether islands north
and of that specified in The treaty, is clear that
fishermen have the right TO hsh in common with the fish
eImen OF Great Britain aud also the fishermen OF the
world But far as Il regards the bays OF Nova Scotia
and New Brunswick, have right under the terms oi
the treaty. 10 fish IN them il they be regarded Brit
ish bays And hen lawyers say the proposition IS
reduced 10 he question whether this is such latent
bguy Gao be explained by parole testimony by usage
Now, If coempoaneously with This treaty our fishermen
entered into The Bay o Fundy and shed that fact would
seem TO be a commentary upon lis meaning But, as
learn from my friend from Maine Mr.. HAMIIs,l the
great ndueement 10 the treaty OF is the pa OF treat
Britain was thshat under the treaty oil 1888 fish
ermen in the habit of fishing with seines upon the
coasts of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and II
10 exclude them from 6shng upon these coasts and drive
them of to distance OF three miles from them, that the
treaty entered into. That have been the
usage OF the great indscemen And IL you reduce The
issue 10 the proposition and issue made by the
from Michigan, Mr.. CAss,l to whether the Bay OF
Fundy could be made British bay by treaty between
the United States and Great Britain tell him that he would
find II very difficult proposition 10 support 10 say that
two nations could not make IL British Uay far they
themselves concerned he would end that a very
difficult position TO establish.
Mr. CASS. do not deny that by law that could be
done.
Mr.. BUTLER. Then the question arises as TO what
is a closed sea, daUSum, under the treaty
Mr.. CASS. II the honorable senator will permit me,
| viii say that that Is precisely what ! said in my
marks upon this subject. say that the Bay OF Fundy
is not OF these indentatons OF the marked by
projecting headands which give nation jurisdiction
over them Now, OF this great ndentaon oi the ocean,
know that hundred miles OF the coast belong TO
Maine and besides that independently of It's not being
exclusively within the British dominons, II was bay
10 give shelter. which marks il OF the bays refer
red 10 in the treaty TO be considered ports and har-
bors,
Mr BUTLER. l-have studied this subject OF mare