The daily union. [volume] (Washington [D.C.]) 1845-1857, 1852-06-25

This eaeoellss oquedi as1 think my friend Mr. HALEl
calls ~ has really become almost perfect nuisance IN
this body Sir since you first took your seat in this
body there has been much difference between the
action OF the Senate upon these subjects at that time and
at The present day as between the light Of The midday sun
and the moonshne Sir. we must resort TO some mode
OF arresting this eternal talk. know OF one thing
which mig answer. which would be TO devolve upon
the Chair the duty OF selecting certain number from
the Senate 10 be sent to surgeon 10 have their tongues
split; and he should leave only every tenth able
to speak, something might be accomplished. Laughter
should prefer that this amendment should be adopt
ed temporary measure, because, sir, however
unimporant 1t may at the first glance, yet II
would be making an essential and radical change
the rule which has been recognised for many years.
and which has been found 10 work we'll | am un-
willing 10 make any essential and permanent inroad
upon them; Tor these rules in another country than
this have worked well Tor centuries, and il would seem
to be the part OF wisdom 10 listen TO their experience,
rather than to establish new and untred scheme. II
this modification OF our rules can be laid upon the table
until business becomes little pressDguntl these
appropriation bills and other matters upl should
be very heartily in favor of it's temporary adoption II
we IND business pressing nconvenieny Tor the want OF
such rule, we at any time, upon days notice,
submit the amendment and adopt it. II must be Observa
BILE 10 every gentleman however, that If we begin at the
beginning in these debates much time Is spent upon the
very elementary parts OF the ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
gPpfe-Pts-pie-ap pie-which might well be
cut of by such rule. Sir, in The olden times, il was
supposed that the representatives Of the sovereign States
would understand what was due 10 themselves as well
as what was due 10 this body Then 1t was august
body and this alone sufficient TO restrain the body
from t0e excessive use OF irrelevant talking Modern
experience has shown the necessity OF relying upon sOme
thing beyond the ancient and welestabshed usages for
the purpose Of preventing the inconvenience which it is
attempted to remedy
Mr.. BADGER. | hope that the proposition OF my
friend from Kentucky Mr. UNDERwooD will meet with
the favorable consideration OF the Senate have listened
with attention to the gentlemen who have made objec-
tons TO this proposition and am at loss 10 perceive
what parliamentary practice is violated by the rule
which is now proposed to be added TO the rules of the
Senate. My friend from Tennessee Mr. BELLl says ii
advance far towards the previous question Not
at ALL sir it is exactly opposite TO the principle, and
exactly contrary its application. to the previous ques
ton. The previous question authorizes decision upon
a matter while il cuts of debate upon that matter.
Now, this resolution OF my friend from Kentucky does
not propose to invade the adopted ny the Senate
that whatever shall be considered and decided shall be
open TO debate. But it simply authorizes the Senate,
when the Senate shall deem it proper, TO say that they
will put aside whatever in their opinion is not proper to
proper to be considered Now sir that being the state of
the wish TO know il it is not power which has
been exercised by this legislative body and every other on
earth Suppose my friend from Kentucky has a bill
which he thinks highly important TO be considered, and
thinks it very desirable that it should pass suppose
majority OF the Senate think dierently-that the bill
ought not 10 occupy their time al all suppose majority
Of this Senate is of opinion that the bill ought not 10 be
discussed decided upon-s it in the power of any
member 10 move and does not that motion cut OF debate,
when the bill is ordered to lie upon The table, And il
majority OF the Senate is OF that opinion, is not that BILL
under the authority OF existing rules, placed beyond
the power of discussion I
Now sir, the only object OF the amendment is to give
the Senate the control collateral questions in
respect TO which entertain the opinion OF the
nexpedency OF decision and discussion, which under the
known and established rules of the Senate it has always
exercised over the main question brought under It's con-
slderaon Let then, ascertain where IS the enomity
which gentlemen suppose attends this bill NV friend
from Kentucky [Nr. USDERwooD] has proposed bill
which he thinks is wise valuable and important, and
which, at all events, he is exceedingly DESTROYS shoad
be discussed The majority of the Senate say OF
opinion that the question ought not to be decided, and
therefore ought not TO be discussed, and cast il aside
and order to lie upon the table Well sir the next day
there Is another bill under consideration before the SEN
ate and my friend from Kentucky brings forward. and
offers amendment to that bill, the very bill that the
Senate the day before ordered to be laid upon the table
Now, give the why, in the second place, he
should be authorized TO compel the Senate TO hear dis
cuss, and pass upon measure according TO the eslab
only the day before lawfully exercised their authority in
laying the proposition upon the table, which made il out
OF order to raise discussion upon the subecs That is
the whole question.
MIR BELL II the honorable senator will allow me
to inerpose, | will beg leave respectfully TO suggest
that there is nothing at all in the argument where the
senator from North Carolina MIR. BADGERl supposes
bill to be laid upon the table To lay bill on the table
implies that il is a which is not fl TO be discussed
in the Senate IL will not be in order to offer il 10 any other
bill, unless il should In tho shape OF appropriate
amendment, after the Senate has ordered il 10 lie upon
the table The other rules not hedged in and
checked by those mschefs which the senator supposes
In that state OF things say would not be 10 order TO
introduce irrelevant amendment
Mr. BADGER Will the gentleman mention one rule
prohibiting il
Mr. BELL Unjust be congruous or appropriate.
Mr. BADGER. Not at all. VIII the gentleman per-
init me
Mr.. BELL. We cannot take vote upon that. and
therefore give il up. However, think | am right
Mr.. BADGER. No doubt the gentleman thinks he is
right in the view he has taken OF this subject But, sir
my friend comes from the House OF Representatives, in
which he was once distinguished and able speaker
and have never known gentleman from the House oil
Representatives 10 come into this chamber as sen
stor without bringing the rules OF The House OF
Representatives with him, OF less. Sir, there
is rule in the Senate which requires that an
amendment shall be cognate or congruous TO the main
subject before the Senate II Is 10 the House OF Rep
esenaves. but it is because they have special rule
II my friend will examine the subject he will find that
we have parliamentary rule by which the presiding
officer oil this body rule amendment or PROPOSE
ton to be out OF order, il he thinks il irrelevant That,
sir, is the rule Of this Senate We have had the ques
ton raised and decided time and again. believe nothing
is more clear So my friend is entirely mistaken in sup
posing that my is not precisely 10 the point
and 1t does not affect my argument at all, when sup
posed this bill my friend intended TO Offer and would
have offered, amendment TO another bill and say
mortal man point out the reason why the Senate
should have the power in one case 10 say proposition
rs irrelevant mschievous, and unnecessary, and shall
not be considered and discussed and not have the right
to exercise that power in the other case.
Besides, Mr. President, my friend from Tennessee, |
dare say must be looking back the water when he
talks about applying the gag and stopping debate. have
been member OF this body six years and have been in
the minority all that time, and have seen majority an
and over again announce-tor vote upon
measure with the intention 10 pass II within week or
ten days. and yet have known measure to pass
this body while anybody wished TO discuss IT, When