The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1852-04-09
SPEECHES OF MAZZINI IN ENGLAND.
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Visionary Movements in Europe.
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The Views of the Italian Revolutionary Leader,
SC. &c. &c.
Maxxinrs SpeechtO the Soc lefty Ofthe Friends
of Italy, I'm London.


Maxxiurs speech to the Soc icty Ofthe Friend s
of Italy, In London.
The second conpersdz lone of the Society of tho
Friends of Italy was held in the great hall of the
Frccmasons Tavern London, on the 23d ult. Tho
object Of his society is to direct public attention to
particular class of facts, affecting the opinions
which may be formed in this country in reference
to foreign politics; and, further to bring into di-
rect communication active English politicians and
the exiled representatives of what is popularity
termed the '!Itaian cause" The hall was well
filled. and fully one-third of those present were
ladies. Of the foreigners, as many were Hungarians
as Italians.
Professor NEWMAN took the chair and intimatei
that the course of proceeding would, first, be the
delivery OF a lectures and, next, colloquial dis
cussio,, MIR. Mazzini having expressed his willing
ness to answer all questions that might be put TO
him upon points rising out of the lecture.
Mr.. MAZzINI (who was very warmly greeted on
rising, and who offered his apologies for his mper-
fect mastery of the English language-apologies
which his complete command Of our tongue rem
dered Unnecessary sad-The question is a momen-
tous one. | don't know whether, in putting the
question, Mr. Newman is suggesting that the papacy
IS still strong power in Italy, and that we would
have many difficulties to conquer in the enterprse of
dealing with the papacy said plainly, when
spoke to you last, that the papacy was a corpse
repeat 1.-THE papncy is a corpse. Observe,
am not speaking merely individual opinion;
! am stating the national consciousness of a fact
Long before 1919, when the papacy obliged to
run away, no man held up finger to recall its,
long ago as 1881 there general nsurrectionary
movement in the Roman States That movemen
was managed by aman of what is wrongly in Ital
called the moderate party; wrongly called, because
rightly understood, we all moderate men: an
in this case the moderate party meant men VIII
would reach an aim without fighting for it. TIL
movement l refer to was triumphant in q weeks
time. 1t ran through the Roman States, and reache
Rome itself. The moderate party, not ut all direct
ing the revolution, was obliged to manage the
luton; and it issued a decree single decree, til
whole history ofthe revolution Of 1881. And that de-
cree was one abolishing the temporal power of til,
Pope and sentencing the papacy limitation to its
strictly spiritual sphere Ihatdecrec found not sin
gle opponent throughout the Roman States There
were men then, who said that this expert
ment which had never been tried: that it was
rash, and that this novelty would provoke a
counter revolution from the people. Yet not
single hand was raised to resist the decree.
You know the result: that revolution was put
down as usual by a foregn-the Observation-Disclosures
ton. But the fact remained and had been record
ed, that if an discretionary power could become
powerful enough and could escape the foreign inter
venton which would destroy it, it would be ready
to erase the temporal power of The Pope. In 1919,
the same. We abolished it by decree !; it was the
same thing repeated-with this difference, that the
signs, while in lS49 the decree passed amid the
unanimous applause of the revolutionary republican
assembly. That is Italian opinion. If, therefore
the question concerned only the temporal power Of
the rope, would now nave answered IL. but tnat
is not all. Were it all. | would say this: that were
The Pope limited to his forces, were Austrian
and French interventions forbidden, the Pope would
not await the decrees OF insurrectionay powers he
would anticipate and run away ntwenty-four hours.
We want however, more. | do not quarrel only
with the papacy us temporal power We have
higher, hoer aims We say that the Pope is no
Pope at all. Pope. as priest father, is to lead
to infuse life into nation-to direct that life out
wards to action. We maintain that the Pope is not
such man; that he is not a spiritual power; and
this further, that he has no consciousness of being
spiritual power; that the Pope is not only man
without any legitimate right, but also that he is an
impostor-an impostor who knows nothing but that
he has no mission still to fulfil earth. That is
the question with US we aim at the destruction, at
the abolition Of the papacy, both as spiritual
power and as temporal power. However
soon late that thing be fulfilled it will
be fulfilled extremely peacefully and easily upon
successful-and not impeded by foreign Intervention
--insurrection. That | say as belonging to the ma
NOT spiritually solely, but physically. The Pope
is no Pope any more. The Pope being gone, i
would become the necessity for us, and for the whole
of Italy, to do what shall call, feel the pulse o
do in political, so should we do in religious matter
ascertain the general opinion by general Assem-
bly,. We should summon, so far as the rcsoluto
goes, the clergy not only the clergy but all others,
laymen. who have studied the religious question;
and We should know from them the state of feeling
and opinion, as to religiosity. We should have the
actual transformations effected in the Catholic be-
lief by time. We would have a council by the side
of the constitutional assembly. We should have
universal suffrage, and we should know not what is
the individual religious belief, but what is the col
lective belief OF the majority The verdict of the
nation will be, as said in the beginning. that the
Pope is corpse that there is power of guidance
in it. that we want to be guided by the wises and
the best; and that find that the Pope is neither
enc nor the other. We shall then have done our
part. Italy would have legitimately declared that
81 tiers. hpr vprl ipfy no
that the papacy had become exhausted, had fulfilled
ats mission-for it once had a mssion-and having
some three centuries since, 1t had nothing now to do
no more than the lies and the phantoms of to-
day. Europe would give the answer; but as far as
Italy would be concerned. on Italy obtaining the
freedom granted to other nations, of declaring her
opinions. She would have proclaimed what would be
the death-warrant to the papacy, as temporal and
spiritual. cloud cheers.)
Mr.. STANsFELD requested NJ. Mazzini to favor
his friends on this occasion with the which
urged the national party of Italy to rely in the u
ture of that country upon united republic rather
Than upon q liberalization under an hereditary
Inonarchica reform.
NJ MAzzINI--Ths question is often put to me-
Plenty Of people sympathze with our cause, but
sut sort of sOrrowful protest against our declaring
ourselves republicans | will answer now, as | in
yariably answer those who speak to me so. We do
declare ourselves republicans because we are repub-
Leans: and we are republicans mainly, not only
but mainly, because Italians. The first point
needs no long explanation with such persons as you
are. We are bound to tell our beliefs. And in po-
ltical affairs not less than in Others truth seems re-
auisite and is not to be overlooked. Every man
aspiring to great revolution in his own country Is
bound to say want such and such-is bound to say
where the people he is to transform must 60. The
frank avowal of the aim is the half at least of the
guarantee of the success. 1t is quite clear that
Without the TRUTH or what believe to be the truth,
inscribed on my flag, have no right at all to say
to nation--'' Stand up and conquer, and die, II
need,' because it would be sort of crime to pro-
yoke n nation to do so, without making them know
decidedly that there is truth to be conquered
II is quite clear too that the attempts we have had
in Italy which have been anonymous which have
not been accompanied by positive pledges, have
fajled In 1921 we had q revolution in Piedmont
and in Naples and the common aim was the indie
pendence of Italy. The Carbonari Association led
the people, and believed they could direct them
without defined political creed. People OF every
description Of every sect, of every system, focked
to and were accepted in the ranks; for the future
was all vague, and all meant the overthrow OF the