The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1852-04-10

long 'ses, on. ast0pish ~ Hrgand, mean. Glieers
why, le'c, instead oi oHo in sevon II is ab,outeiy
liti!e than one il f,ar. even il we include The
miloi1 Dnd half of lnocfrfs whom they 30 not pro-
pose 10 cniranchise. tth"crs) Well, now have
Inadt ! few obseryati0i.4 anon those tour npoftan
points asa il appcas that the propositions 10
not beat inyes.g ton hat they are not fouadsd
upon i:lci-that they not prepared with that re-
search which the House ms right TO require on
subic, q! this nature. .eeally from gentleman
who has devoted Ia, life TO this question
(chec,s = and thai trele in them statistical
wr cii are more tagn1t han political bundors.
We have had some aim ons tonight 70 a dcclara.
ton on iils subect OF r,ru from her Majesty 90
vernIncmt. hut mus protest against the conclusion
from ri . on3mous statement i'll a newspaper, that
my colleagues and consider an extension Of tho
nanchise To be syncut nous with the extension Of
democratic power. ttheer.) When the Reform
bill debated, shol,d like to know whore il
would haze been, had il not been for the support
and rigs If my Lord Stanleyi (tlcar hear }
Again ga nor the noble lord whom have succeeded
III The constituency ! represent Che Marquis of
thanc"s4, propose motion which added oue-nnih
10 The eoasi ucpcy ofGrcat Britain! cloud cheers)
Therefor, entirely repudate the assertion that We
arc ia y banded together against all reform, and
mat we WIZ listen u 20 proposition founded on
justice aad matters OF f,ct. (Cheers) But will
tell you what we are opposed TO. We opposed
70 crude unnecessary pojccts. Cloud cheers.) Some
honciai'r gentleman asaCd if we intended to bring
1oTwnrf project OF reform but if any project on
that or any other subject should ever be brought
forward oo this side OF he House hopo it will at
least he founded on more accurate data than the pro-
position which has been offered Tonight Cheers
What We are opposed 70 is tampering with the
deposiia'$ at political power. (Cheers,) ! consider
That il's constant shifting and changing Of the
deIosiiury Of political power is one of the most
lnjuiieHs things than can he conceived. (Cheers.)
>ou may talk of tampering with the franchise
and ticre are few things worse--but that which is
worse = !anpering with the constituencies Of Eng
land. (theers.) If there is to be change. lot ii
be change always called for by clear necessity,
and whol. is calculated to give general and--l do
do nos say fnal--but permanent satisfaction.
tChec'S Now, say. here is q proposition which
- touuo upon statements which are utterly alla
cious-is that % proposition calculated to give
Ecbefa aud permanent satisfaction (Cheersl
Was that proposed by the late minister calculated
to give such satisfaction. Why. the noble lord
viii confess that whatever lis merits It certainly
not calculated 10 do 50 UIear. hcar) lie has
Withdrawn il. The country called upon him to
wiihoiaw IL and we may BE- sure that ii il had been
brought iai'y into discussion il would not have
stood that discussion even in unrctormcd House
of Coinmons. clear, hear.) Vol, sir, these are
our views, Therefore, if they cannot show that The
presen, systcms calculated to favor misgo yernment
1T Is clear that they have no ground, for their
scheme: and must uphold that system which
exists, aud which, though believe it was conceived
in no friendly spilit towards the tory party has
found in al its faults a remedial agcncy in
the good sense OF the people Of this country-that
which believe are necessary moi only for tho great
ness OF this country, bat for the Freedom OF he
people. Cloud and long continued cheerng)
Mr.. HENRY BrRHELEY said a few words in support
OF tho ballot. but promised to reserve himself for his
specific motion on the subject.
Mr.. BhENAh OSBORNE congratulated the House
that tho Chancellor Of the Exchequer had spoken
ont explicitly on the question Of reform, and had
declared that The ''fnality dodge to be tried
again. This, it the statistics he had cited were to
be relied on, most unjust, because he had him
seifshown that the agricultural interest was unfair
y repre- scented, and ought to have Reform bill
tpris aeit Nnslh 1lnp in hat honca
i'll its desire to put down bribery and intimidation,
or tho ballot would have been given long ago There
was no INDIGESTION on tho subject in the mind OF the
count,y. lie could have wished this motion put in
better form, but he should vote in its favor.
Lord john RUSSELL said the question was whether
the adoption OF the bill proposed would conduce TO
the good government Of the country, and he was
clearly OF opinion that il would not A House of
Commons obtained by the means proposed would
not be 50 efficient body az tho present. And part
Of the propositions contained elements Of future
danger 10 the constitution. He referred especially
10 the iodgcr clause, which nearly approached uni
yersal suffrage. Without denying the present popu-
arity Of the proposition for The ballot he would say
that iio thought many OF those who hnd adopted
it had not considered all it, consequences. A Par
lamcnt elected by universal suffrage and vote by
ballot, aaa sitting for three wears, would not long
he thought, co-exist with n monarchy and heredi
tarv peefage. He defended The Septennial act re.
captivating the reasons for which it passed. and
asserted the belief that the people Of England would
reluctantly bear the continued recurrence to elections
proposed BY the motion. Against the motion he
should record his vote Bu; lie stated, in reference
to the Reform bill of the late ministry that he re-
tanned the belief that the representation too
much in the hands of the middle classes, and that
the working classes might, with advantage, be adj
Mitted to the franchise. And he also stated his
views to the desirable alterations i'll the arrange
meut of representative localities. He could not
think il wise in the government to declare their in
onton TO adhere to the details Of the measure Of
1891. II was not dgnifed policy to remain in
l.nyls until al ptAnt tla
clear necessity alluded to by the Chancellor of
the Exche9ueT. He hoped that government would
reconsider the policy they had announced that night.
and givc matured consideration to the necessary re-
forms iii The representation.
Mr.. WALroiE denied that the Chancellor Of the
Exchc4uer had used the phrase "cloar necessity"
in the sense stated by LORD John Russell
Mr.. WILLIAMS here moved tho adjournment Of
the debate.
Mr.. H0sHorsE seconded the motion, A. many
members wished to speat.
Mr.. HUME thought it pity that the debate
thouia not go on, as il only twelve o'clock
Mr.. WILLIAMS insisted on adjournment.
The CHANCELLOR OF TN ExcHEoUER thought the
course Of gentlemen opposite hardly fair to Mr..
Eumo, and which made il appear that the
motion was ou'y intended ii afford opportunity
for election speeches
Mr.. Be,oar urged that ,hs House should 90 to
division.
After some further discussion on this point
Mr.. WILLIAMS withdre1 mrs motion. and
Mr.. HUME replied. Tie Taaccd in peculiar
position. lie was able to des,l with his opponents,
hut what could he do nth lis friends who had adj
vanccd arguments thar he rad not eNpected-who
had, in inct, something ike deserted him. The
noble lerd the member ,or London. was III favor oil
giving the advantage q the Suffrage TO the intelli-
gent argan and TO members Of the learned profess
.ions, but he tMr. Hupel 6eGed him to give it 10
them in any other way than a. dodgers with The
Chancellor oil the ExcLeonef lie had very little DIT
fculty whatever because be was prepared to show
that everything which VI. right honorable gentle
man had stated ertirely wrong. si.aughter)
The right honorable gentleman had talked OF ter
ritoriai qualifications tpt he (Is. Hume) had never
made use OF the tern that the observations OF
the right honorable gor,..Uan were entirely super
Huous and he had, in las. .sed lion Tor the pur-
rose OF slavin. it, In oF,, 10 >e the wight honora
tle gentleman righ. il - view, he ttr Huac)
would mention one VI tt snoualies that existed
nndcr the .ns sent system II they compared county
with county, and boroGS, with borough. they would
lind that tho grossest inc quality existed in The repre-
LL..1 - II lni in.an- ls,Ii .