Richmond enquirer. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1815-1867, 1851-07-29

is, that the Jury" referred to u the bill OF rights is
jury of twelve and when these rarou. propositions t.
reduce the number below twelve have been before III
general assembly, have uniformly opposed them.
am IN favor Of inserting provision into the c'nstn
ton 10 prevent the general assembly from destroying
this ancien: trial nv ur. If M memory ss7res cor
roc:lg-and think an right about i;at the session
Of the general assembly in lsi.-4S bill was intro
du"ed and think passed, Though an not certain OF
'hnt proposing TO makea jurT Of seven men, and that
majority Of that should DO comPeten. to agree
upon verdict At the next session of the general as
sembly, in 1851 bill was passed BY the house OF
delegates providing that after a second trial 10 airy
cause jury should be composed of the number of
opposed that BILL because in my Judgment. the gene,
raj assembly had no power to provide for jury o! less
than twelve men, believing =. did. that the ancient
trial b. jury referred to in the bill of rights jury Of
twelve, and no less. But the house Of dele
gates took different view. The house believed
that the ancient trial by jury did not refer to a
jury of twelve They decided by their Totes,
and If remember rightly, b. very considerable ma
the extra session at the Fauquier Springs, when We
were revising the CODE and it agreed that the jury
should only consist of seven By agreement Of the par.
tea do not remember how I voted upon that propo-
son, nor Is it material conceive. An, willing to
let that provision ,tarl upon the code md to make
provision to guard against future changes of that pro-
vision. would acquiesce in prcri4ion that jury
SHOULD no. be composed Of leg: than twelve excep. BY
agreement of the partic7 Il the pr-e mi; chose
to agree that less number than twelve s;lod h
petent to decide the question, do not know that aur
great harm would result from it. Bat what ] an op
posed to is. giving power to the general assembly To
provide that jury shall be composed Of less number
than twelve, because if YOU empower them they NAV
provide in after time that it shall be comp se Of three
or FIVE seven. an for taking awa- from them the
power destroy this ancient trial b. jury, and if it in
rider will to amend the first anerment, before
the question is taken the motion to strike OUT hy
adding to it These words:
Except where the parties by agreement entered on
record, shall agree to less number"
offer that with view of testing tho OF the
committee and if the committee will adhere 70 the orig
inal amendment, they will carry ont my view of the
matter
The CHAIR. The Chair will remark to the gentle
man from Logan that the addition which he proposes
to make will be of itself substantive amendment and
that it will he perfectly competent for him afterwards
to move that amendment That being the case and there
being an amendment to the amendment already pending
the Chair does not think would he competent to amend
the amendment in n different way from that proposed.
Mr.. FERG USOS. If tho amendment Of the gentle
from Richmond (hlr SooTT) is voted down. andthc
house agrees the original proposition it will carry ont
my view. only offered that with view. if could,
of defeating the ancnment of the gentleman from Rich
mold
The CHAIR. The gentleman can Indicate that he
will move that as an amendment should the amendment
to the amendment he voted down.
Mr.. FULkERSON. That amendment of the gentle
mnn from Logan, effects what desire | will withdraw
ms amendment and lct him offer hs.
Cries II -. nn.
'lr. III N1ER. ] am opposed to this Tnole ah.ir,
which seems To have acquired high degree Of mpnr
in the Of this debate, and far Indication
has been given of the opinion and disposition Of the
mttee appreIend thew are disposed to adopt the pro.
posed provision l have. therefore,, within :. few mo-
past given to it critical examination i'll order TO
see whether it is likely TO do mischief or not.
Now If understand the provision here sought to be
enrafted upon the constitution in my Judgment will
tear up and utterly derangn Whole system Of urs
prudence except perhaps regard to those that
known as strictly common Inv cases. The bill of
ishts this subject goes in my Judgment, just far
~ ought attempt to go in organic law. 1t is
recommendation 1t is earnest of that respect which
every man ought 10 feel for the ancient trial BY arr,
and there it stops 1t says that in controversies
apscting property, and in suits between and man
the ancient trial BY jury is Pretsrabe to any other
This is an opinion express d, ia which fully concur,
and it ought to be held sacred The provision pro.
pissed here is mandatory and conclusive upon the es
iature It reads "that in nil criminal pros .cutisns
all controversies respecting property and IN all suits
between man and man, using the term suits, which
IS the broadcast and most comprehensive known to the
Law to designate legal controversy where the subject
u controyer sy shall exceed the Of twenty dollars
,rul by ury of twelve shall be held sacred and in-
violabie" Now what Is the meaning of these terms
shall be held sacred and nviulahlei That it shall
not be nrinped That there shall be no departure from
in any case That where it is controversy betwehn
man and man sere it Is suit; trial by jury shall 'e
the only mode of determining the question OF fact Now
what becomes OF Tia whole system o chacery lurlsdr-
inn 50 far us facts are conserned If understand THU
provision Alright it il mandatory upon the Legislature
and upon the courts AVID tue very moment your co,ti
triton is promulgated with that provision III it, without
an LEGISLATION whatevG, upon tue subec every chan
ccilor or circuit Judge exercising cAancery jurisdiction
would in regard ~ every matter oil lact involves
in nny controversy pending before him, have to submit
that matter to Jury Again, what is to become OF this
very Convenient system Of assessing damages upon oul
line. of internal improvements by boards Of commission
.rs2 Are in every CASE to have separate jury o:
twslre rpen-that c.lbalistic nnmbcr OF tweiVe-eI-
Moved to determine the damages of every Landowner
IN our long lines of Improvement, aud all the heavy en-
pcnse resulting from havpga jury to no earned to the
locus in quo and separate jury every case, instead
of the far convenient mode nf selection by the
court Of FIVE intelligent upright, rure-mnGed, clear
headed gentlemen of the county, constituting them
board of commissioners and permitting them to go owe,
the whole line OF WORKS embraced in the county and do
ternline the amount Of damagesl few years ago.
was my=elf charged with conducting commission oven
ninety miles Of railroad the aggregate Of which, amouptet
s5oOOO. If we had had to erupannel jury ~ ever!
ere not only should We have been delayed ten time
the period tina. was required. order 10 perform thai
nty hut perfect sure, froE the manner ii Wiki
ure, are necessarily constituted, that justice would no
have been done, Mt least, that there would not have
been that confidence in the result, which w FELT by tn
parties / both sides. Yet il this provision Is incorpo
rated in the constitution and understand 1t Alright. ii
cuts up thi. whole business by the roots and rend=rs
twelve men necessary every lssue Of fact IN every
shape manner md form in which it up before
The tribunals Of the country to pass upon thar matter
If fact in order to determine it. Now, the Conv cnto,
ready for this Are prepared to incorporate int
the constitution provision that will be productive Of
80 much nconre nience But again. why is it that VT
are cngn to this ancient trial By jury of twelve men
The ere. principle that in regard 10 matters OF fact
Jury ought to determine and not judge, is grea
constitutional, common law principle fox which an
ready to contend to the very last won.d never give
it up But would infinitely prefer that ve should per
init that sacred declaration of the bill Of rights to sano
as it il .eve too, have said, that ouS lesisla
tures-our biennial legisstures-hc agents of he PEG
Die and representatives OF the people, will havo some
intelligence and some knowledge Of the wants Of the peo
pie an would leave margin to conform this yer,
nportant machinery Of trial III your courts OF JUSTIN
20 the varying wants and interests of the country from
time to time 30 that ii any particular system is fonn
to work badly they hinge it ana Adopt another
But gentlemen have said this trial y jury Of twelve
men has worked we'll in all times past deny it, am
woud rather hear proof upon the subject before
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