The daily union. [volume] (Washington [D.C.]) 1845-1857, 1849-02-21

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| Mr. BUTLER Is the gentleman in order' cannot
understand, SIR why the amendment offered by the hon
orable senator from Wisconsin in ORDER for ii is
motion to engrat upon the civil and diplomatic appropri-
alton bill a plan Tor temporary government But, sir
who would expect, who would be prepared sir TO meet
upon an appropriation bill amendment of this kind, 10
admit State into the Union. Why, sir | was not pre-
pared for it, and how could any senator expecting the
ordinary forms of legislation, here prepared TO act
upon this, unless some notice was gven-unless the
binary notice observed do not know as is in
order to debate this question: but will ask whether the
amendment is in order
The VICE PRESIDENT In the opinion of the
Chair the amendment is in order If there is any doubt
upon the point the Chair would very much prefer that
there should he an appeal.
Mr.. HALE. | will take that appeal.
Mr.. WEBSTER. | have no doubt that the Chair is
right in his decision know that we do make all SORTS
of laws, and incorporate them into appropriation bills
know but way TO take the opinion OF the Senate,
whether this question should be discussed in this
form. do moi know whether that is according to the
rules and forms of the Senate II Is, to move to lay this
proposed , a%snamsS1 pR11 the table ,
has the floor and cannot be interrupted to make that
motion.
Mr. BELL. should be very happy to hear the sense
of the Senate upon the question Of
The VICE PRESIDENT Does the gentleman from
New Hampshire take an appeal
Mr. HALE. lido. r
Mr. BELL. Is il not too late
Mr. BUTLER. presume was too much in hurry
in making my suggestion. yield, sir, and will now
whdraT ny P1nt Of order $,e., ,0sh.nd h, II.
point of order cannot be withdrawn by the senator from
South Carolina, after appeal is taken This ques
ton which hope the Senate will decide.
The VICE PRESIDENT ruled that the senator from
South Carolina had right to withdraw his objection
Mr.. HALE. think it is not competent for the senator
from South Carolina to withdraw his question OF order,
The VICE PRESIDENT Does the senator take an
appeal upon this question also'
Mr.. HALE. believe will, SIR
Mr.. CALHOUN. do not intend to argue the con-
stitutona part of this question at this time but surely
there ought to be principle by which to regulate the
question of the congruy OF an amendment with the sub
rule is laid down by Mr. Jefferson. Although the Chair
decide the question of congruy is in the pow
cide that The appeal has been taken from the decs
ion of the Chair appeal to this Senate, that if there
ever was as1 case OF ln1cp1nsruy. this lsone
MIR. CALHOUN. Ii ever there was case
Mr.. BELL That is not the question, sir; the sena-
tor is certainly out of order He is not discussing the
Carolina had right to withdraw his objection after
appeal had been taken The question upon the appeal
first made by the senator from New Hampshire is not
now pending before the Senate.
Mr.. CALHOUN. | am sure that the senator from
Tennessee has not understood me. stated, that if my
memory served Mr. Jefferson lays it down that al
though the Chair cannot decide the question OF nconsru
ty, it belongs to the body TO decide it.
Mr. BELL If the senator will allow me, the rule Is
that it cannot be ruled out OF order.
1t may be an argument for the Senate to reject the
amendment, when they come to vote upon IT, II they
think it is homogeneous, and foreign TO the bill before the
Senaetha is all 1t is the exercise of Judgment when
the Senate come to vote upon the proposition The rule
of parliamentary law is clear sir. that you may SO amend
anyb proposition that comes before you, as to pre-
sent totally different subject, or to present The same sub
ec in very different aspect from that presented IN the
original proposition that, in fact the original mover
would not know his proposition. These are the vau
able privileges of every legislative body in relation to
amendments IN order to get md OF obnoxious anu mis-
chievous propositions.
Mr. CALHOUN. Mr.. President, what said was
that when question of this kind is brought TO the Chair
and the Chair decides that not out OF order and
appeal is made from that declslon belongs to the
Senate say whether it shall waste its time in combi-
ming measures so directly opposite IN their character as
these; whether shall waste our time at this late Pc
riod of the session discussing one OF the most mo-
mentous questions that be brought before us IN an
appropriation bill and especially since when we have
taken position, the bill itself may be lost, or coercion
may be applied TO senators to vote IN favor OF measure
which under other circumstances they would not vote
for Now, sir, have no doubt that every senator will
admit the entire ncongruly and that they Will vote at
upon the subject, and not waste our me and re-
serve their vote until after the discussion.
Mr.. PHELPS. do not know, sir, that understand
precisely the question before the Senate.
Mr.. BELL. Mr.. President, shall insist that the de-
bate shall be confined to the question before the Senate,
because every remark which is made such as those OF
the senator from South Carolina tends to prejudice the
body and the public against this motion OF nine, and
shall have no opportunity to answer It.
Mr. PHELPS | understand the first decision OF the
Chair to be this that the amendment offered by the sena
from Tennessee to the amendment offered by the SEN
ator from Wisconsin is in order The senator from New
Hampshire Mr. HALEl understood to appeal from the
first decision. The senator from South Carolina Mr.
BUTLER] understood then to offer TO withdraw his ques-
ton of order The Chair decided that it was competent
for the senator from South Carolina to Withdraw the
pont of order. Ga that decision OF the Chair UNDER
stood the senator from New Hampshire also to appeal.
Now, sir if am right in this view OF the subject
Mr. BELL. That is the only questionable appeal
MIR PHELPS. If | am right upon this subject the
question before the Senate Is thiss WHETHER alter
the question of order is rased the Char has decided and
appeal is taken, 1t is competent for the member VINO
first raised the question OF order to withdraw 1t mat
understand to be the question before the Senate. -
Mr.. BUTLER, Ii the senator from Vermont Will
allow me, will explain. The former motion itself was
our of order | withdrew the question of order because
did wish to reduce amaer of this kind TO technical
point of order.
Mr. PHELPS. merely rose, Mr.. President, to ascer-
tain whether my OF the real question before the
Senate is correct. II it be, have no hesitation IN
saying that believe the decision OF the Char to De
wrong If the question of order is raised. and decided by
the Chair that decision becomes the law OF tae Senate
unless appeal is taken. If appeal is taken, raising
question what the law of the Senate is, lhod is
not competent for the member who raised the qlesuoh
OF order to make that decision Of the Char OF no erect p
withdrawing his objection. II the Char has DECIDED
and in the opinion of the Senate the decision OF the Chr
is erroneous, is impossible for the member VINO nap
pened to raise the question OF order TO Withdraw c w
lection Ii cannot be done. ,
| Mr. YULEE Mr. President, if understand IT. the
senator from South Carolina Mr.; BUrLERl fehe"S MS
original appeal presume, therefore, sir-
Mr.. Blu TIER. | did not take any appeal "eie'y
raised question of order
Mr. YULEE. The gentleman, them raised quesuon
Of order and after ards Withdrew 1t. Ihereupon the
oueson If order was raised whether he had right to
wi,bJraw il As he has renewed 1t, presume the issue
now rises whether the amendment proposed by the sena
l.. n - lor,