The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1849-10-19
Court or Oyer ana Terminer.
Before Judge Edwards and Aldermen Ingersou an

Court or Oyer ana TermineF.
Before Judge Edwards and Aldermen IngsrsoIl and
Oor Is.-Ths trial Of Charles II. C.rpept.r Cbsips
the eighth day. was resumed this morning.
JOAN KAUFMAN, Ia Germany foreman to Mr.. Brinker-
non deposed TO the finding Of three four large aud
couple Of small copper plates in the soil which was
removed from the Allegheny Hotel to his employer,s
premises the three aborers who assisted him all
Germans; the plates were not discovered until the
next morning. when the stuff was removed to Brnker-
posed that he knows Jehn A. Canter-
COUNSEL for defence objected to the evidence about
Caner who is one Of the notorious counterfeit coners
and is, ut present. In the State prison. He Is
those wretches who are as yet unpsrdoned aud they
(ooupseD object to evidence Of any conversation with
that convicted felon being heard here
Mr.. McKEoN District Attorney said that he did
not propose to give any evidence that would not be
within the limits Of the law, and he wanted to show
now those plates came into the possession Of the Attor
The question was admitted and an exception taken
Q-Hsve you seen John A. Cantsr within the last
Ayes. saw him q convict in the Sing Sing prison
had conversation with him.
This answer objected to- and the Court said,
less Carpenter was Immediately connected with this
evidence, 1t should be all ruled out
of the Ocean Bank NswSurYport nro.
dueed IL got this plate from Capt Johnson the wit
ness who WAS examined here yesterday gave 1t to my
servant to clean with stuff with which she in the
habit Of cleaning furniture Counterfeit bill pro-
duoed have compared the plate with the bill
lCOuhsel ueenco ObJecteu 10 evidence OF the
learned gentleman on the scientific question now pro-
posed
long discussion here to the legality of ths
evidence; and the Attorney General in his profession
al capacity, maintained that 1t proved in evil
dencs that Carpenter promised . issue Of bills
and the plate was traced to the possession ofCanter
notorious counterfeit coiner, at least, found In
place pointed out by him. they at liberty to idon
tfy Carpenter with the plate.
The COURT said, the conclusion Is necessary and in
evitable that II Carpenter had this counterfeit money
and caused to be passed he must have got from
some cou tertet coner, but 1t Is immaterial who he
got 1t from All that is for this case, Is to
know that he caused to be passed counterfeit money
knowing 1t to be counterfeit. The Court, therefore,
Wirrrss ian engravsr) was then called; but coun-
sci for defence said there be possible connection
with that plate and Carpenter and they objected to his
The ATTORNEY GENERAL commended that there Is an
identity between Carpenter and the counterfeit BILL
and that they could go farther and connect him with
the plate from which that bill was struck
The JUDGE In deciding against the admission Of the
evidence (after heightened discssson) said, that In
the discharge OF his duty he responsible for any
decision he would make. As this proposed testimony
seemed irrelevant he Is so far justified in excluding
that In case there should BE- conviction there should
be grounds laid to set aside the verdict In
quence of the admission Of irrelevant testimony.
Mr.. CORwIs was called to prove that Andros had
terfe bin Of the Ocean Bank but counsel for the de-
fence admitted the fact that Andres had done and
the gentleman was not sworn
WILLIAM 3. PEARsor examined by the District Attor-
neyknows the prisoner, Carpenter, since the summer
Of lS43 or little earlier; knows Andros recolleots
the time of Andross first arrest thinks it In the
early part Of January 1896 him after his arrest;
cenyersed with him at the door OF the cell In the Office
Of the Chief Of Police, within ow days after his ar
rest saw Carpenter within half an hour after witness
left the prisoner stated to Carpenter that he had just
seen Andres, and told him that Andres said there
were persons Implicated In passing this counterfeit
money, and that Andres said he (witness) knew who
onen Of them Was; and that Andres wished witness
to tell Carpenter that unless they procured him IAN
dros) bail he should not stay there lin PRISON. much
la nd ted Carr MT 70
tell the others the same thing Carpenter replied that
he knew where Andres got his counterfeit money IRE
ferriDg to that which he arrese) that he got
1t In . bowling saloon, which he and Andres were
accustomed to frequent he said the bowling saloon
kept by Young and Sargent, and that that was the
place Of resort OF persons who passed counterfeit
ney =" showed" the word which Carpenter used;
IL struck Witness as was the first time he had heard
It. Carpenter said that he had Andres and Young
In conversation, and that he knew they were
ing about counterfeit money; he said that himself
lCarpenter) and Young had also about
tefe money he then proposed to witness TO and
this place the saoon) went along continuing to talk
On the subject; he (Carpenter) said there good
many concerned In the counterfeing business; that
Dung IVES not the person who manufactured the
money, but that he (Carpenter) did know who manu-
actured IT. he said Of IL ready and that they
would shovel IL of soon as the Counterfeit De-
ector out, TO come In before the next Con-
egtef DefecfOr would appear Carpenter said he had
the prison and they would let
him he then proposed that he should go FIRST into the
bowling saloon and witness could up after.
md that he would point out Young that after witness
calling Andres; that N Andres Was not baed, and he
,ould Andros he would tell him TO give Dung up he
about Young that the officers picous Of him
Carpenter) that they had watched him, and watched
he bouse where he lived and one Of them had asked
lin what he did for yng that he told the officer he
ievsr neddled with edged tools, and that he lived
IN the interest Of what he owed his creditors witness
vent to the bowling saloon in the room was one man
there others roliDg who seemed to be the pro-
,rietor; Carpenter nodded hs head towards the man.
nd seowled his forehead that man pointed out by
'arpeDter Was Trew +. Young; IL was the first time
witness had him, and 1t the first time he
In that bowling saloon before SINCE went
II Immediately, and left Carpenter after him; their
'ay to the saloon Carpenter told him there two
who went there and who showed" money; that
vas /" Little john and the other Big john" that
little John the most successful he a very
innocent little fellow, and nobody instructed him.
In clearing up an ambiguity, which the Court con-
eved TO exist with respect TO expression In the wit
nesss evidence, Mr. Pearson replied-Andros said to
me that there we're more persons implicated In the
counterfeit money and that knew was acquainted
With one Of them, meaning Carpenter.
The ArrorSr, GENERAL here proposed, under the
aspect Of the to offer to prove that within
bile he remained In prison. Carpenter made effort
raise and did raise 5000, for tbs purpose Of hiring
ersous Herewith as bail, who were irresponsible to
ecome hall; that he procured two men named Bart
ett and Porter to bail Andros giving them 5000 that
be raid Bartlett and Porter wholly irresponsible
nd that Carpenter knew 10 at the time; that imme
la, ely after Andres bsied out, Carpenter adj
Used him 20 change bis name, and abscond
The Court admitted the evidence, except the parts
ibe and that Carpenter knew IT, and that he advised
Insros to change his name and sbscond
Ihe ArroRSty GrNERAL took exception to the
ourt ruling out those proofs.
MIR. PsARsor's examination was then continued-Saw
arpenter frequently after he had left him In the
bon; one Of those occasions, some time after, he
old witness that tive men, named Bartlett and Porter,
snt ball for Andross that they paid for going
all and that be Carpenter) had had the management
raising the money; he ssid the money raised BY
DING to some OF Andres friends; that one gentleman
HON be did not name, let him have 500 and that
'oung let him have 500; that Andres conveyed or
turned o." his furniture to raise part aud that
ir. W n. Oracle had personal mortaxe that fur
iture. and that Mr.. Oracle gave up the lien the
isno and sofa i not quite so sure about the plane
the sofa be Csrpenter) stated that he and Bartlett
present when Andres was discharged before the
,ecorder he said II the last evening which Re-
order Tamadge held Office; that the Recorder handed
srtlett the discharge for Andres aud that he Gar
enter and Bartlett took IL to sths prison, and the
eeper refused to discharge him; they then sent for
omebody else, who came to the prison, and Andres
ras discharged; $500 the amo cunt mentioned ~
iven to these who went bail; he also said that
Id acis had refused to keep TO his PROMISE but that
afterwards consented and that the things we're Sold
nd the proceeds vent to those men who the bail
e said that Liisnthorne, the landlord Of Ansross,
lad claimed these things, and 10 resulted In Oracle
aging the rent. A letter was here handed to the