New-York daily tribune. [volume] (New-York [N.Y.]) 1842-1866, 1847-05-21
Association Discus.ed......No "a.
From the Courier 8 Enqrirr, May %.

Association Discussed.."..Ho "a
From the Courier q EnqHtru May 20
Tn. T,ibzn, closes its defence ofAssocison by ebsrg
ne us with gross uoarness for the manner in whcn we
have opposed H. We pass unpouced the onensVe te,tns
in when this charge Is made ana con'en' ou''e'e'
with showing its entire Injustice.
The Tribune first complains that we have not met me
case which has presented. We appeal 70 me "hoe
course OF the discussion 10 refnsuon oil TINS
W.. are not aware Of single position taken by The
Tribune upon this subject that we have lett unnoced
We have given every argument has urged In defence
~ tho svsr.nn all the attention II seemed 10 merit We
began by discussing fundamental theory oil Natural
Rishts-its primary denial OF the ngot oil properly IN
Land aud We have followed, throughout tbe llne OF
s,gnm.nt which IL adopted. The TrtbHnf escribes all
existing the false arrangements sOcety we
tended those false ARRANGEMENTS grow out o. tne
se6sbness of the human heart The Tribune demanded
Social form which should aboh the cause OF existing
evil insisted evil did not spring from Social
forms no change Of those forms could destroy u
The Tribune condemned tho present system OF isoato
and individual effort. and demanded the SUB
stituton for them OF Community of Interests and OF
life sought to prove that such Community would
be impossible so long as human nature remains un
changed The Tribune urged Association as the means
OF ectpg change In human character which alone
could renosr Association possible we proved that this
cause and effect and that the personal re-
form individual must Prseds such social reform
alton labor would receive as its reward ahSed
proportion of its product and that this would be greater
than under the present system We proved mat tne re-
ward OF labor 10 regulated by certain principles OF per
manent force which Association could not change ana
that then as now when labor abundant ano lAoOr
ers scarce the wages of labor would be highi Wnen Ia
borers increased rapidly than the WORK 10 De zone
their reward would diminish And so we PROCEEDED
step by step meeting every claim urged by me if'oHe
in of the systems reiuung us pre"hHops -
exclusive phisnthropy-po out obstacles LOT ~ncn
II made 10 ADEQUATE provision-snd discussing fully and
fairly whole system in ell its defss as presented
in its columns We met The Tribune, throughout upon
It's ground yet 10 nearly every instance our oo
iections were denounced as edrtls our arguments re-
main untouched and now, In Its closing article, me
Tribune repeats all its original positions aud charges us
with having failed TO meet them we are quite content
10 submit this point the judgment o! our readers
Bat TIE IrbHae complains farther That we nave 8cNt
bssond IL. line OF srgumentthet we have not occupied
exclusively the point from which II saw nj 10
yie~ the System We can perceive justice IN this
claim The Tribune Is contendug that the shields made
OF silver assert that is Of brass is II not absurd
IN mist that we shs look at IL only from The TbHnes
point of view We have examined Il from that stsnd
poiut and now claim the right 10 LOOK upon une
o,her side We met the arguments which iAs rT'onae
ureed but we are not bound to stop with that The vi
stand point may be different from that oil on
RrxR and BRISBANE: IL msy look at the system from
TEN ,s,cb ,5ev adrocafs he sAME7 The Tribune may
sdop, tor and they Tor enolhed ou' 'ns
difference in no way touches the question . ss
essential character This is the pon: to be Determined
aud we claim the right examine It's pretensions ana
principles not simple with The 7fibHHss eye-eiass' Ou'
with the best telescope we eau command
Beside The Tri6ERs should remember thh IL re.
ferrcd us TO the writings Of Fourier and Brisbane and
Goodwin for definite Information upon precisely tnose
points, which u insists we had no f'gnt y
touch We had made inquiry as to the provisions %
As.ocistion for the education of children for rel
esous worship--for the regulation OF domesuo sno
social intercourse the relations oil me sexes &c &C
We sought some definite and explicit statement o
the mode Of lite In this social order Ne essenus
20 its and fair discussion aud We stated great VS.
ricy OF obstacles which seemed TO us 10 ne 10 .ne wa
Of It's success The TribuHs replied Dec 2s) IN tnes
With regard 10 Labor, to Edaeaion, 70 R.!is'on, &c
had you read nysly OF tts 'eftfnfs Of tAe h"eSa
s's.,t' sos ~0sa A"'t see" A's your ''"a'" ore ar
Aud subsequently (Jsn. l5) it is said
al civ. You IN. full benefit of your citations Mr.
BRssBsSss boob. ard Of your excuse for them
Here 10 intaston that our inquiries were irreie
want Nothing said then OF our having violated 81
"express epsngemeutH by making them. But when IA
7ribRss the answers which ts own references MAJ
given to our inquiries. It suddenly discovered eros
"uufairuess~ in toe had adopted. Our reac
ers will no difficulty Ia Discerning the real cause
The IrikHRes dissatisfaction.
We have proved in preceding articles Of this discu
sion that the hole SYSTEM ASSOCIATION is touDde
upon grows OF its fundamental principle kno
Is the Law of PASTORAL ATTRACTION The argument
which this position Ia established remains nntouehe
and we shall not therefore repeat IT, In our last srtc
proved that In this system, the Lac Of Mans warn
the supreme rule Of bic conduct and chsrse Ter
that recognizes higher law than that OF inclination
no authority above that Of passion and OF no
sepul distinction between right and wrong-no stan
ard OF duty except that OF Impulse OF course tne os
OF human responsibility IL utterly destroyed and all u
Of moral and religious truth as derived tro
the word Ut God sbrogsted and cast aside. Thes
deduc Cow inevitably from the law OF Pssstonsl
tracuoa and that law We have proved TO be fundsme
tai In Association. We have made this The Tn
ans assumes matter of assertion, but of proof an
we are entitled to demand that The Tr6ess shall eiih
aeknowledge lie eoneasiveness or demonstrate It's ID
But The Tri5Uas will do neither II will neither q
Arms nor aisaree thai law though would undouote
dsseot from any prcsentment ct II from our pen al
sss,nl more from such deductions thereirom, as
should think flair and logical why does MOI 4
TrtbsAt its reasons for such olssentt nave
prosecuted that law untruy made unfair ana hlosie
deductions from III II 50 the tact can easily De show
II tue TACT OF The ISlbHRss dissent IL 81 but MT
consequence. But TIE TTtbaHs sdds
I" Make out n you will, that all who do not deem nj
ally and totally depra'sc, are ufdss, and si
posin ms ale unsneeisd my Arguments 1n.nAken. fso
Devll-aod xA4 iAs~l Are my posincns weakered p
The TSfbEass positions may not be weakened BY ID
faet-out atisr Is arguments have been rviuted, and
positions demoshed by other considerations this poir
II ..em, no us becomes pertinent and important v
have all the arguments which me Ir1eHRs has a
vanced aud proved that ty not sufficient 10 VIM
cate the System and alter that hss oeSn done,
The sv.,sr can be shown 10 rest upon principles viii
sre of hs Dsr"ifts vital and essential elements c
b. proved 20 De those OF inadey, lie claims upon
favor of = religious people al all events n,sst m Q
iudsment be some Whist !" weakened Ths Tyteeae q
not escape the responsibility Of the system u sd'oes
BY 90 shallow evasion as this The TACT thsi u emo
e. 10 shut lie eyes TO the rsseeAs oesass :" .ae
S~St-thst is prefers no; 70 urge Assoeisnon nom
religious point Of view. will not prevent otoers
deem It's moral and religious bearings OF paramount
por,seee, from examining Us principles snd pv'.ns10
from th., liked aud sei6iug plstfcrn. Nor VIII us
test sgsinst testing the merits OF Association BY sec
riaa saloeole,hs.' by ~creeds and estcchsms oy d'
OF theology, bs OF avail In spite OF tne G
tempt thus expressed BY The TSfbERS Tor matters OF
lf and In spite OF the eight regard IL processes
-sesuset speculation OF shery upon any point OF m
., and religious duty u will sti DC held responsible,
sl consdsrete rninds for the inodety Of faith as
a. me hcenousness OF fe involved IN the Viii
80 earnestly advocates Belief. aes,rset theory ms
al~sys so before prse zeal eonsao. man may indie
III and re- n
f.,sh pus generally his belief will shape his conduct
sysrrn moreover can asro Dc bsttsr than tie priu
plss on soAsci lts practical operston never
~, good when It's predominant ruling principles
false and psrnicious. There To- therefore no more p
per or decisive mode OF determining the ehssseser OF
sysssm than by bringing to the tsstoi essohsned un