The Madisonian. [volume] (Washington City [i.e. Washington, D.C.]) 1837-1845, 1844-01-10

I
lection would prevent US from ever making any call
on The President equesng information as 10 NATIONAL
subjects, The resolution would truly elicit nothing
| but uhe Instructions OF our own Government, andth
was as much as we could ever get IN regard 70 any
| like subject The President he commended, could aa'
wise with the Senate by message we'll as personal
/ ly. II would be new doctrine to suppose that tho
President could enlarge or diminish his own powers,
or The poweIso Of this body by coming here 10 person.
or by communicating with us in writing. The Pre-
sdent could thus divide the responsbiliiysw No
Senate OF commanding the army aud nayy lie stood
| forward to-put the seal Of condemnation on q doc
trne that the President could enlarge his powers by
coming here in person. He had the power TO advise
with the Senate, or he had II he had he got il
out of the Constitution, and where else. We had
the fact and the practice Of the Senate, when the
Constitution was new, to show what the Fathers OF
the Constitution understood By the provision of the
Constitution authorizing the President TO make rea
ties, with the advice and consent OF the Senate.
| That practice is authorized by those who made the
Constitution and by the who administered H.
and presided in the convension that formed It, The
gentleman from rgnia must strike at them, not al
him, when he condemned the doctrine that the SEN
had right TO participate in the formation OF trea
Ties. These men, when they framed the Constitution
knew what they about. They adapted it to the
character of the people and the age. But the Sena
tor evidently supposes either that the Senate was
wrong in holding this conampufcaft0n ruth te FIes
dent or that the President exceeded hia pSwers.
DR. KING said II occurred TO him that the Senate
intimati,n from the President
Sir, whatdo we gain by this call The President
may refuse to respond TO it, and Ithink he will. But
why should we ask the Pres dent for instructions
which he cannot give without detrment to the public
interest! Suppose the President send the instruc-
tlons how will it affect action here Ii tho trea
ty should be made and ratified, it would be the
law OF the land, Notwithstanding any legislative act
we may now pass. The check upon treaties in
this body 1t required only small number to arrest
W. VrO Ia ado
this resolution, to discuss it except in Executive
session.
Mr.. BENTON said we were not offering advice in
this resolution, but asking for information. 1t was
useless to multiply points here; but he would tell the
gentleman from Virginia that the term o5tf1Sipe would
not apply to any advice given by the Senate to the
President, whether asked for not But the Senator
had gone into the motives Of the two who sup
ported this resolution. He says it is part of system
intended to democratze the country.
Mr. ARCHER said he did not arragn the motives
OF the gentlemen He supposed they would not consi-
der IT as an injudicious imputaton to say that they
wished TO democratiZe the country.
Mr. BENTON | would. Suppose we go on ar.
raigning each others motives in thus way, what
spectacle shall present TO the country If we are
accused Of disposition to democratIze the country,
the gentlemen on the other side may be accused of
design TO monarchiZe the country
Mr.. ARCHER. / shall be very glad, sir if the
gentleman will give me authority for saying that he
is no democrat.
Mr.. BENTON went on to say that he had attempt
ed in this matter to carry back the practice of the
Senate to the earliest precedents and usages. He
would ask, however, whether advice with the Presl-
dent on negotiations not still the private practice
of individuals in the Senate. Vas there not conti-
nued whispering and private intercourse between Sc
majors and the Executive during the Ashburton
! collation.
Mr.. ARCHER said he would not answer afirma-
lively or negatively. Ii might have been so, and
what of 1t
Mr. BENTON said these individual consultations
had been substituted for those general consultations
with members of the Senate which were first adopt
ed, and which the Senator now repudiated. He
would assert the fact that these individual consua-
tons had taken place.
He had before asserted the fact in Executive
session. 1t was injurious change in the practice
OF the Senate. He accepted the Senator's charge,
whether intended as stigma or not of o wish 10 de-
mocratize the Government, far as 10 carry back
It's early sges under the administration Of Gene
raj Washlngion-by carrying il back 10 the Consu-
tuition it wiitten-by allowing general, not
cret individual consultations, between the President
and the Senate. In this he did not propose any
consultation with the President but TO ask him for
information. lie would not obtrude his advice at
this time upon the President but, il he should
happen TO tread on one Of his toes, we have evil
dence that there exists phalanx ready TO defend
him.
proiessed willingness Of the gentleman from Missouri
to 90 back 10 the usages and principles Of General
Washington's administration. lie hoped after this
the grnteman's course would be confined 10 this de-
claralOn.
Mr. BENTON said he would 20 back TO the hard
money doctrine Of that day, and hoped the Senator
would 90 with him.
Mr.. RIVES referred to q call by the House Of Re-
representatives. UPON General Washington for informa-
ton as TO jays treaty. lie refused to send It, on
the ground that il interference with the trea
ty-making power The same objection applied TO
the like proceeding Of the Senate, acting in its leg
latiye capacity lie thought General Washington
was wrong in refusing 10 furnish the Instructions
given to those who negotiated that treaty; and he
said with the highest reverence for that authority
We had gained much he thought, by doing away
with any utimaton Of the monarchcal form Of per-
sona visits by the President the Senate.
Mr. BUCHANAN said it was considered, for
years as obligatory on the President to consult with
the Senate in making treaties. That practice became
very inconyenient 10 would have led 10 inermina-
ble delay. The practice had been Of late years for
the President to make the treaty. But this did not
preclude the Senate from interposng their advice by
resolution on such an occasion. lie would be most
willing to have the question discussed in Executive
session, but lac could not vote in Legislative session
for resolutions calling for Instructions The diplo-
matists in Europe frequently carry their instructions
bandaged around them. These Instructions
often very minute, showing exactly what would be
insisted upon and what would be yielded. He
membered curious case Of this that happened in
Europe. The Russian Government was once very
anxious 10 obtain the instructions given TO British
ambassador. The Minister had them in a secret box,
in the bottom of his carriage lie stopped for awhile
al place on his way to Moscow, and, on returning
TO bis carriage found every thing right except that
the instructions were gone. On arriving at Moscow,
the box was found TO contain the Instructions, which
had been examined and returned to their hiding place.
The Minister made vehement complaints about this
treatment, and, what remarkable, the Govern
ment declared that they knew nothing at all about H.
Instructions generally drawn as 70 de-
mand first certain things TO 60 for all that they can
possibly get then, TO say what they will take next
and so on, till they come down to the lowest point
lie should be sorry to vote FOR this resolution, tut
would be willing to act on il in Executive session.
The question then taken on the adoption Of
the resolution, and decided in the negative
follows
YEAS-Messrs. Allen AtchsoD Benton Breese