The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1844-01-25

il is astonishing sir to see how very eminent states
men have been led astray ON this matter A very dis
tinguished gentleman. now no longer member Of the
which he graced much by the coseness OF his
brillisncy of intellect John c. CAL
houn in discussing this subject last session says that
N dispute between this Government and Grrr Britain II
,y three degrees Of latitude about fourth OF the Ter
Mr. GiLMEn rose and said that thsh hour almost
he would suggest TO the gentleman to move 60 Into
night be fully discussed all around it was very mpor
ant matter, and many gentlemen were anxious 10 OK
press their views upon it.
" BRowS-Ths subject sir is of great interest.
and the gentleman is treating it in able manner that
the House DESTROYS to hear him ont let him 20 on
and nsh and then move to go into Committee oil tho
Here there were dozen propositions, in order to bring
the subject at before the House. and discuss 1T and
cries Of" Suspend the Rules" Go on, owen" BUS
MI D,omooonE Moved to commit both resolutions to
the committee and that they be printed and made the
order of the day for tomorrow. .
The sprAxrs said would not be in order to suspend
the rules again at present. -. =,
Mr.. BLACK, Of Ca asked hit woulo DC ~ o'us' r" "
commit the report with Instructions
SrEAxER-Aferit comes ost Of tS Com""'ss INV Nv
House.
tee the Whole and ordered to be printed Ihsn tne
expiration Of the House, Mr. Owen moved to suspend me
rules that the House might 60 into Committee OF tho
Whole and take up this subject and commence the DO
bate on il at once
Mr. ApA called for the orders OF the day. which was
the report on the Rules and called the and nays on
Mr.. Owens motion to suspend the rules They were or
So bv this vote YOU may see how the Oregon feeling il
in the House but the Southern men wont pass the ore
gon bill unless Texas is also taken into the Union 49,
Mr.. DAVIS Of Indiana, moved the use OF the Hail DO
granted to the New York Institution Tor ths bund-
Granted.
Gen SAUNDERS having the floor for ten minutes on TIL:
subject repeated OF his former arguments and sad
that if the rule recinded the doors the House would
attacked for In this matter and
also holding the Hartford vention and sending me-
da who had
ported the rule from New Hampshire Maine, Pennsyva-
MIA and New York why they should yield now He was
appealing the West when he knocked down by the
Speakers hammer.
: MIR RoBERr WEsrHRor, of Mass, said-We have been
occupied many days, sir in the morning hour. except
when it was buried for time under the great Western
and for brief period to-day under the Rocky Noun.
with discussion of the second great principle OIL c
vii liberty have been astonshed to hear the doctrine
laid down here that the right of petition involves no ne
cessy on the part to hear those peoni u.s.
volved nenessy the part OF the officer to whom 1t
addressed enforce that the liberty Of the press
only involved the right to strike of certain publications
and not the right issue and publish them Why sir
this doctrine true the right of petition would be the
poorest meanest most miserable abstraction that ever
was dignifed with high sounding name and the
is sxpunged from the catalogue Of civil rights the
better that the people may know what right: they really
the argument what the subject matter OF petition IL that
you reject The question is by rule resolve not
then on some day decide to receive none upon
other subject and I'd day decide to receive none
petitions upon any subject all II resolves ITSELF then,
sir into this Have right to prescribe to the people
upon what subjects they shall. and what they shall no. Pc
of the inalienable rights Of the people The gentle
from Tennessee says that thi: House stands TO-
wards the people in the relation OF parent and child
Sir we do not stand thus We are not the parents,
guardians Of the people are the servants
of the people sent their will and to undertake to
restrain their liberty is say the masters and
you the slaves You must obey dictations. II pre-
sents the representative in the of nstructng bis
constituents the servant nstructing What is
the operation Of this ruler By IT, the petitions Of tens
ofhousands Of citizens have been turned away from your
DOORS and the resolutions of sovereign States have
been thrust back in the face of their Representatives in
this Hail. And if many States asked for the rems.
Union had sent similar petitions here the result would
have been the same In it's principal it says come one
come ALL you shall not be admitted here Sir, the day
is close at hand when this will longer be tolerated ny
the people.
tons that may be- but have the rghtl We have the
power to say shall sit here who 10 not 25 years Of
age but not right to do that and the power to do
many things at we have not the right to do.
Mr.. WrN7 7then showed that in 1889 the State Of Vir
gina declar hat every freeman has the right to petit
ana Judge decaIcd that this was the language
Of free people asserting their rights whilst the Language
of the Constitution sayored more Of the language
tended lst that the right to present petitions to the
Government. including the right to have those psti.
the people OF Great Britain allowed and acknowledged
for time whereof the memory of man runneth not to
the contrary. ID that the trainers Of the Constitution
understood, acknowledged and appointed that right ;
3D. That the refusal to receive petitions in certain
in the British House Of Commons was an exception
to the general principles, and general practice OF
that body arising out OF circumstances peculiar
to those cases, and furnishing Justification
for the rule under consideration 4th That there is
abundant that the amers Of the
Constitution would have been the last persons in the
tire world to sanction those refusals to consider
them as furnishing an exsmpe for on American
Congress to follow These four points the hon. mem
Der IA in ds, ts.Hns fully Mr. R.
semblng, drawing up petition and sending it here: He
said that time 1000 went in procession to
honest brewer and that the doors Of the House
thrown open to Them and not from feeling OF gal
time in England that the people were divided
into petitioners" side. and " abhorreis y
the other He also spoke Of the celebrated Of
Thomas Skinner and the East India Co. in 1885, and the
resolution passed then by the House Of Commons that it
is the inherent right Of every freeman to present petit
tons the House Of Commons &c. and the first work
done by that House to form grand committee to
ceive and dispose petitions In framing the
nropo,ed bv Virginia a. before stated was epposed oniy
the ground that the right of petition already existed
and that was such an inherent evident sacred right
that would be questioned touched But others
in the Convention Of 1885, said that the very
its great value it better give additional force and
Mr. Benson conended that should be well protected
that it could never afterwards be infringed by the
Government The only two rules passed by the House
OF Commons this head was that petition should
be received relative to any bill for taxing the people while
the bill was actually pending but they might be
at other tme and the other in 73 to receive
on for any appropriation of money not recommended
| by the crown
MIR BELsER reminded him that this last made
| standing order the House.
Mr. WINTHROP then stated that Mr. Hstsel, who was
pronounced by Mr. Jefferson his Manual be the very
highest best and soundest auhoritory for the history and
law oPariamsntary rules and proceedings in reference
those two very rules declared that there exceptions
and then he goes on to say in words that it 10 NO ex
ageration to say ought to be Inscribed in letters
gold upon every pillar in this hall; and upon scroll Of
silver suspendng from the claws Of the eagle above your
head sir these the words For to receive and hear
and consider the petitions of their fellow citizens 10
duty incumbent upon them above all rules and orders for
their convenience. Justice and the laws Of the
country demand it of them"
The speech of ROBERT DALE owE. was properly hi: