The daily Madisonian. [volume] (Washington City [i.e. Washington, D.C.]) 1841-1845, 1844-01-09

instructions gives ssd the correspondence which bad
ensusd would not aid IN legislation, and they could
be moro properly asked for IL Executive eapsci-
". The ease was, that we proposed 10 negotiate
the subject the British Government declined
gotstion there and proposed 10 make the subject
ono Of negotiation here, and had sent Minister spe
eially charged with the matter. la this state Of
things proposed legislative act which would ex-
ercise injurious effect the negotiation. On the
eve Of An expected negotiation We propose to send
for the instructions gave. Thus The other party
would have the benefit Of knowing all our private in
structions 10 Minister, while remained IN per
feet ignorance Of the instructions from the Govern.
nent Of Great Britain. We would show
hands, and not the hand Of our adversary.
Mr.. BENTON said, in the early period OF our
Government the President came into the Senate but
finding II announcement, he communicated his views
in writing. The latter practice was adopted by Gen
Washington, without discontinuiDg the practice Of
advising and consulting with the Senate. He cited
instances in which the Senate advised that steps be
taken for tho settlement Of disputes ia respect TO the
Dorlhe aslern boundary line. The President did con.
suit the Senate, in writing, " the negotiation OF
treaties; but il had been long since the Senate bad
been consulted these subjects. II they had been
he would venture 10 that the treaties lately form.
cd would have been more satisfactory to the Senate
and 10 the country.
Mr.. ALLEN said there seemed TO DO scme
objection 10 tile resolution the ground that il be-
longed 10 the Senate, in its executive character but
the subject was Of double aspect, looking both to
ecutiye character. 1t was important, he thought
that the Senate in it's legislative character should be
advised Of the condition of the negotiation. The
question is barely submitted TO the President TO de-
eide whether il compatible with the interests oil
the country to publish this correspondence or not
Let gentlemen who place SO much confidence in the
Presidents discretion in the management of i'm
portan treaty say why he cannot be trusted to Judge
OF the propriety of publishing this correspondence
What harm would the call do when the President
" - inf Aft If he hong
The President knows what steps have been taken on
all sides, and he say that he deems ii ncompat
BILE with the public interests to send the nfoIma-
ton. No one can decide the question Of propriely
but the Prcsiden. himself II very true, as the
Senator from Georgia said, that we might show
hands by the exposition of the instructions given
our Minister, while we were ignorant Of the nstruc
tions given the other side and for this very
son the resolution was guarded TO render II i'm
possible for the President to expose the state of facts
relative TO the negotiation, unless he finds it proper
aud expedient. We wish to know whether as the
British Minister has said the President has put
OF his power to sign a bill which is now before Con-
gress Tor its action He is in situation 10 enable
him TO Judge Of the proper form of giving the infor
nation.
Mr.. ARCHER said the effect of the resolu ion
would be to bring out the instructions given by our
Government TO our Minister, that the only
step taken. The only effect as the gentleman from
Georgia had said, would be to show our own hands
without disclosing those Of our adversary. But sir,
the debate has disclosed doctrines here of far more
importance than any thing involved in the resolution
The Senators from Missouri and Ohio advance the
doctrine that the Senate have equal right with the
President to influence the actual progress of negolia
lions. What, then, becomes Of the treaty making
power Does not this initiative power, which the
gentleman says the President has, include power to
institute and carry on negotiation Such doctrine
was never heard Of in This House or this country
The effect OF the doctrine averred here is that gen.
uemen during the progress of treaty, may call eve
" haV (Ar rnfrr and IL
they may daily interpose what they choose to call
their advice. This amounts 10 assertion of full
unqualified absolute check on the progress of nego-
tiation But the doctrine consistent with the poll
tical principles Of the Senators from Missouri and
Ohio. il is their purpose to democratize the whole
Government They wish TO remove all limitations
to pure democracy This is the first time the doc
trine has ever been advanced here, and | am happy
to have the opportunity of putting the seal Of condem
nation upon II.
Mr. ALLEN. The gentleman has not answered
my main question, viz: Why should We not allow the
President 10 answer this call if he pcases, Why
will the Senate not pass the resolution when the Pre-
sident can refuse TO send the information
Mr. ARCHER. | Will answer it, Because IL will
not require of the President TO do thing which is so
maniiestly improper
Mr.. ALLEN continued He asked, when was i,
that we could get any ministerial secrets of Great
itain by call on the Presideptf Never That oh
lection would prevent US from ever making any call
on the President requesting normstion ss to national
SUBJECTS The resolution would truly elicit nothing
but the instructions of own Government and this
was much 5 we could ever get in regard 10 any
like subject. The President he contended, could cd
wise with the Senate BY message as well as personal
~ IL would he new doctrine TO suppose that Tho
PRESIDENT could enlarge or dimnish his powers,
or the powers Of this body by coming here in person
or by communicating with us in writing The Pre-
sident could thus divide the responsibility with The
Senate OF commanding the army and navy lie stood
forward 10 put the seal Of condemnation on doc
n Prnstd dor 4.
coming here in person. He had the power TO advise
with the Senate, or he had not II he had he got il
out OF tse Constitution, aud where else. We had
The Tact aud the practice of the Senate, when the
Constitution was new, to show what the fathers Of
The Constitution understood by the provision of tbe
Constitution authorizing the President TO make irea
ties with the advice and consent Of the Senate
That practice IS authorized by those who made the
Constitution and by the men who first administered IL.
and presided IN the convention that formed H. The
gentleman from Virginia must strike at them not at
HIM, when he condemned the doctrine that the SEN
ate had right 10 participate in the formation Of ,res
ties These men, when they framed the Constitution,
kDcw what they were about They adapted il TO the
character of the people and the age. But the Sena
tor ev'deDuy suppOscs either that the Senate was
wrong in holding this communication with the Presi.
dent, or that the President exceeded his powers
Mr.. KING .aid II occurred 10 him tina, the Senate
could not exercise this power without receiving some
DiiWaticn from tho President
SIR, what do We gain by this call The President
may refuse TO respond TO IL, and think he will But
why should we ask the President for instructions
~hich ne cannot give without detriment to the public
interest Suppose the President send the ,hs,ruc
lions, how will affect action bcrcl IL The trea-
~ should DC made and ratified, il would be the
law Of the land notw outstanding any legislative act
we may now pass The check upon treaties was IN
this body. II required only small number TO arrest
any treaty. He thought il every way wrong TO adopt
this resolution, Or to discuss il except IN Executive
session.
Mr.. BENTON said we we're not offering advice IN
ths resolution, but asking for Information. II was
useless q muliDlv l.