The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1843-07-13

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men use any means, and II any, what 10 form sutse
qnent opinion cOnversed with her from an hour-snd
nei 70 two hours. As Ter "a that was concerned olu
you orm any opinion As Gar possible avoided TORN
ing ony opinion. Did you however form any opinion
gu that She was not person OF perfectly sauhd uha
That formed solely from the conversation you had
Yea And you then formed that opinion, hist DIVISION
OF the disease did you class her What lawyers term un
sound mind" From the time yon spent win el IA con-
verssiion, did that appear very eyldenf somewhat So
were her answers lncohereht ldlouc OF cmhlsh
Neither They appeared 10 be gwen irom dehcency OF
memory Was any else present then Yes Dr.,
Nelson, and think ot the latter part Drs. Hosack End
Chids also On inmate OF the prison. as an interpreter By
means OF the Interpreter did you distinctly under the
whole OF her conversational Yes Was DR.. Nelson there
during the whole time think found him in the room
Did you leave togoherl thnk left the house first Did
any consultation then take place think not How
Did you then her alone? Drs Mcdonald and Nelson
think were present. We then conversed with her in
the same way What was The RESULT At the first visit
she stated She wanted TO so home and stated her
the consequences; OF the second visit tried expert
ment; we said we had the power of sending her home
! What was the result7 She declined, and made
uses LOT not gong homeshe was not so much disposed
lpento go home Any other experimental None direct
TO ascertain the State OF her mind
sl9 me only aehclency observed was that oil memory
Dad YOU consider her oh"nge in the inclination go
nome an evidence of want oimeuory2 No, not at all
10 what would you attribute that change thenl Can
assign 10 special for IT. Would such change
be consistent with insane state mind7 Such thing
might exist person ofunsouud mind Was any other
means used TO ascertain her state OF mind the second
VISIT No. What then your opinionl That she
got insane But as to the diocy what was our opinion7
II her mind at all ssced must nave been in that
way but nay opinion then tn at her mind not at
ieced by dioey Will you state the reasons of that opn
iont II was from conversations with her, finding that
SUBJECTS on which she had cOnverssd before her memory
at once would fail her to the Of places dates and
persons and then again she would recoec them; that
nov me case win an ldot They remember names they
know the names OF their relatives Is this OF diocy
usual onei Yes,t is and from this disposed think
hu hhe was not idOtc and from other circumstances,
such as the expression Of her countenance her mode Of
acting general behavior every thing of that kind. Do
you hnk now that the expression of her counenapce is
that of an IDIOT No think she has Intelligent
enance, not the "brghtest"h is true but still intelli-
gent Do you, or do you not, think her deficient in in
tellect7 / do not she may be deficient in educa'
ton but not in intellect When did you next
her About ten days afterwards | tried experiments
her fathers house. by drawing lines with her finger on
tue sor-said She came from Liverpool and in charge OF
person VINO taught her names OF plants when he
boy and had given her flowers and had had garden of
ms own which he had cultivated. II it should
tha All or many ithese statements untrue, would
not that induce you to change your opnion7 Not unless
were certain she did not mean deceive me Did her
statements correspond at any interview On sub.
ject they dld not Woaid not that indicate unsound
mind, supposDg she did to deceive your Yes
SIR Inc witness then went on to state that at an inter
view the prisoner had sad that Spiers slept with her in
the birth during the voyage; but that subsequently, she
contradcted that and said that he attempted to do
ana hat on her complaining TO the captain she got
Their birth. On occasion of interview the witness
found the prisoner with elastic garter her wrist
the clasp OF Which the name Victoria He asked
her il she knew the name, and she couldn't tell He
then asked her TO spell IT. She repeated the letters and
alter hesitation said thew sReed "Vctoria" He
then asked her who that was but she couldn't tell He
then asked her fit the her sister or her mo-
Their, or grandmother? She said no-her sisters name
was Alice and her mothers and grandmohers was Caro-
line He then asked her what the ofthe Queen?
She replied that she could not tell, but broke off
by exclaming, "Oh! there sa good joke can tell you.
AS was coming out in the ship said Victoria
very SMALL another said she very large; another said
she very ugiy and another said she is very handsome
and they quaTreied that they wouldn't sleep to-
gether afterwards" This satisfied me said the Doc
tor, 'tha she knew who Victoria was.n Was there any
arrangements as TO tho necessity OF having unity OF opin
ion Oh this inquiry? We agreed to meet together The
witness was then askedDid you at this time have any
conversation amongst yourselves TO the sympoms2
Yes, we talked taem Was the opinion understood
to be unanimousl believe it Did you so meet as
agreed uponi did not meet with them ! should be
glad, Doctor II you would enumerate of what you
consider the evidences Of idiocy2 They numerous
blank kind of countenance-dulness of the eyescog-
tive howslsand the general want of mind, should
think are he prominent marks oidiocy Is eeplesness
sympomf Yes, they have very bad smell from an eff
| fuyia arising from the secretions OF the skin.
Here some conversation took place between the counsel
and MT Rapelyea relative 20 the mode OF examination
adopted he Commissioner stated that all he had to OBJ
tain was the general result OF the medical witnesses in
Vesgaton Mr. Warner excepted 10 this opinion and de.
| sisted rom putting any more nterrogatsries.
Mn WATSON then CROSS examined Dr. Rogers. He
asked MIN, there any thing the conduct Of the pr
which showed conc usyey that she was leiguing
| ldiocy Yes What was that opinion founded on? On
her denial the fourth visit Of all knowledge OF the
person who came over with her. in whose presence hs
then was. Your decided impression then is tina. she
eigned idocy Do you believe that the went OF memory
(which you have spoken incompatible with proper
knowledge OF what she is ab0uti That is difficult to
answei believe she is of what she is doing;
believed her want of memory TO be teigned 1.-THE want
of memory not feigned would believe her insane
Do you believe that she now knows what going on
believe she does know. believe she is perfectly capa.
bic Of understanding all that passing her presence
By MIR. WARNER.-Do you believe that the want of me-
mory, 10 which you have testified is incompatible with
her perfect knowledge OF what she is about answer
that IN the negative. You said you judged she feign
inghaye you any other for that belief None
but the general results my examination Her denial Of
knowledge of Sriers you state OF your be
lief that She is rigning Yes, that is But in refer
ence TO some matters her answers indicated OF me
mory No. sr that resulted from an unwillingness to
give an answer.
Dr. JAMES McDoN,LD wss the next witness.
Mr. WARNER proposed the following question State
the various facts and circumstances which you have
formed an opinion, you have formed opinion of the
sanity insanity Of Catherine Cochran alias Gnour
and the reasons which have induced you TO form that
opinion.
Con- missioner RArELYEA-T This is very proper ques
ton. Icannot Judge OF the competency Of the witnesa
Mr.. WARSER-I had supposed you were, although my
questions were not put with that bearing.
DR.. MCDONALD after having asked tn privilege of
ireshing his memory with has notes which permitted
thus replied: made my nrst visit the asth Of June
sat with ner for half more, and lett her with
my mind undecided 20 the state Of her mind; in that
interview abe did all the taEing she talked most OF the
tme put but few questions, OF them whether
she had married Gilmour, and when she denied having
any knowledge OF that affair; before left however
spoke Of GlDour her husband without reference
the msiag and she spoke OF him then as her husoand
her manner and behavior that Of little child sim
pie, and when left her undecided my second in.
tervew was the day following, and then asked the
keeper 70 allow me TO see her without being observed
but there great deal of noise made in opening the
door much that have doubt she heard enter
the adjoining cell in which there grated window
and through which her; she then sitting on
the floor, repeating Eyes! yes no no! the
like :" When went expr' ssed pleasure seeing
me, and put number Of question: to her; asked her
simple questions test he extent Of her knoWledge
where resided1 couldn't tells what large town
how far from Paisley Glasgow which she couldn't
wouldn't tell me. I asked her the name OF the person
who kept the prison, hich she protested rnorance
and also Of his functions, Of which she also protested
ignorance. She also proieEsed ignorance Of the know
of UrIEou in AMI / urEty in |
found elastic carriers tied IUu.A her rss and also pair
OF scissors with which She bgl mai. many incisona in
her hand make il bleed very freely While was
there she called to dinner; walked down stairs in
companyiwith her; she down very properly aud
TOOK Aer seat in the dining Next day saw her in
comp9ny with DrS Nelson, Cumming, and Rogers. |
found Them al my entrance akng about her going home