Richmond daily Whig. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1842-1861, 1842-12-19
VOLUME %. NUMBER lls.

he proposed appropriations by what they the e.
economical rule adoped the session and th,v h.
rendered them specific possible The s.t;m,es ,xer
not before the House, the simple reason thar thev Ia.
not been sent in from the Treasury Department lie re-
GREETED that they had not but for the purpose OF rcprng
this bill that the public NIGH, no, suffer he had ,s
Ken the liberty Of calling the Treasury Department. for
the original estimates, which, Mr. f. was ~
IN manuscript, he had now before him.
4ar GILMER inquired if those estimates furnished in
formation OF any thing due for former clerk hire
M. FILLMORE replied that they did not.
Mr. GILMER said that the object of this bill was then TO
provide Tor extra services that might be rendered here
Inc heads OF the Departments had the authority en-
pioy extra clerks when II was necessary. Why then in u
temporary bill should they appropriate advance for that
which might not be necessary at all.
Mf: SMITH OF Va; (Mr. G.. yielding the floor inqu
req OF ms colleague (h Gimer) ii from any reason il
should become necessary employ the aid of ezra clerks
how tdey wonys be paid without appropriation
Mr. GlLMER said that the law referred TO By the chair
man OF the Committee OF ways and means ( Fillmsre)
provided tor and answered this question IL authorized
the heads OF the departments employ extra aid when ne
cessasy ana required them to report the
sity to- Congress.
Nr. SMITH said the law gave them the power, bu, it
gave appropriation.
Mr. GlLMER was well aware of that At this time
there was no necessity known the gentleman from New
York Mr. Flmorc) himselffor such nm
men e expenditure had not yet been incurred and
they to appropriate in advance by way of the
Department to expenditures necessary Another an
preparation bill would be brought forward in n few weeks
and they would have time examination He woud
ho vote 70 appropriate money in advance tor clerk
he OF tor expenditures for this purpose already incurred
unless he was satisfied OF their necessity.
Mt BLACK said the law last session referred 10 re-
CURED report for the necessity of the employmen of e
clerks Ii passed preliminary TO further appropris
nons ne was willing to vote for the appropriation whsn
the heads OF departments complied with il showed the
necessity for it, but they without that information at
present.
Mr. SMITH of Va. said this bill provided for necessity
winch uld not exist, but which mighty exist hereafter-
suppose call was made the Departments for report az
the next session Of Congress- and in performance az the DIN
~ OF answering it, Indispensable necessary 10
IN he
preparation in anticipation This the object of the pro-
posed appropriation. He had doubt but I great many
more extra clerks employed than were hui
he oDect OF tins was to place in the hands officers whom
We must trust the OF carrying the public service
Il ne appropriation made would be expended unless
II became indispensably necessary.
Mr. CUSHING obtsined the floor but Welded II fnr n mo
ment At the request Of
Mr. FILLMORE, between whom and lIr BLACK some
conversation the comparative amounts of The
proposed appropriations and the estimates from the Depart
neh H Fstated that the former much less than the
latter.
Mr. CUSHING said that until the las, soss;o, If Con
sress the law IN regard the employment of clerks and 70
the contingent funds OF the Departments had been yery inn
perfect II was found investigation that there were
many necessary clerks employed under standing law
IL was deemed desirable and necessary that there sbd he
standing Law creating every necessary cerkship and ac
cordngy an act, the book repored by the
gentleman from Pennsylvania mr. J. X InSenson vv,s
passed providing this by egazing the necessary clerks
ms was the inst step The regard 10 contin
gent appropriations Instead of being general provided
That they should be divided into specific and minute are
uars. simultaneously with these two radical chances IL
became necessary TO make provision extra clerk hire
Tor II was foeseen that il might become necessary What
was the provision 1t consisted OF parts the one pre-
yious regulation, and the other
Inc previous regulation had been referred by the gentle
man from New York, (Nr Fimorc) and the SUBSEQUENT
accountability referred by the gentleman from eo
ga, Mr. Black( The gentleman from Georria had CON
founded these points, and in this manner N C. CON
ceved he had ulen into r c. entered int, brief
examination OF the law, pointing the distinction and
aPPneauon oil It's Two provisions The only practical
question whether this House would refuse TO tus this
Pttance OF money to the hands OF the head of depart
nent or bureau for contingent use be expended in case
there was call OF Congress authorizing that expenditure
and by refusing render il physically impossible for them TO
answer the calls which might be madel We could NOT NOS
s6iy carry this Government any other unless they
permitted the officers exercise degree of discretion
in these
Mr. GILMER said the gentleman from Massachusetts,
d CrsHSG had touched the question in the aspect
IN which he had presented IT, Mr. c. might be mistaken;
but from abOrious examination at the last session nc
was satisfied that there permanent clerks EN-
poyed IN many, and all the pubic Offices than
the public service required That was the opinion bv
which he guided in his present course; and could any
one call on HIM under this impression for the en-
poymeu extra clerks when he believed that there were
now IN the Departments many unemplyed and idlel
Mr. TlLLlNGHAST said the decision of the question
depended entirely matter Of fact If there were su
pernumeray clerks at this time who could be employed to
do the work necessary the calls of Congress then
II was OF course unnecessary appropriate for clerk
hire The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Gimer) was of
the opinion that this the but what Depart
on WnOm tney depended tor
when they gave them the estimates He had inquired OF
the chairman OF the Committee of WAYS and Means and
found that the Secretary stated that this provision was ne
cessary because if Congress made calls upon then thew
had not sufficient force them No money would
be taken consequence Of this appropriation excep wbs
was indispensably necessary. Without intending the
slightest disresPect TO the gentleman from Virginia he
thought was much safer rely the facts stated by the
Secretary on his responsibility than on the opinion of
any gentleman how much soever he might be entitled 10
confidence.
Cries of question:" "quesiong']
Mr. BLACK again referred TO the provisions of the Law,
lie said 1t the chairman OF the committee would sbo,v ss
TINS appropriation was for past services and accompa
MED with such the law required 10 be made he
would vote for IT cheeruy But he appreheued accord
ING to the showing Of the gentleman from Massachusetts,
Mr. GUSHING, that the provision for future services
that they were making specific appropriation for services
that might nigh, be rendered In the present con
don Of the Treasury OF the United States no such apnro
praton ought 10 be made. Ii il was IL was but inviting
this service whether necessary or not He was or
posed TO sppropang in advance the necessities of hs
service.
Mr.. WISE wanted understand Of his colleague Mr.
GLNER, who had stated that this 70 be est Question
Whehe ne proposed that no extra clerks should be employ
cd under any circumstances If so his colleague wholly
differed with him on the question Of economy II might
be that IN one bureau there little force and in
another little detciency but where all the duties of per
manent clerks equalized his colleague would find not
only that there than sufficient but that there
not sufficient force. The Departments required more
clerks during the Of Congress than they did IN, tho
whole year. Mr.. W. illustrated the economy Of EMPLOYING
extra clerks for this portion Of the BY referring 70 ihe
Of the farmer. whose policy was 10 employ exr.
laboers during harvest time rather than employ during the
whole year number which would be sufficient this sea
portion OF whom be idle for the remainder of
the year. II this House determined that il would not en-
poy extra clerks 1t must either determine would MT
authorize force enough do the business of the Dopart
ments at particular times by general law must en-
poy permanent clerks than were required for the
whole time. This the only alternative.
But 20 the matter Of fact His colleague had proceed
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