Daily Richmond Whig. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1840-1842, 1842-06-06
rwExrY-sEvRSrH CONGRESS-
FsipAr, MAJ "a, ists.
limited STATES SENATE.


proceeded to the consideration, as in Committee Of
the whole. OF
THE APPORTIoNMENT BILL
The question pending was on eoneurrins in the
remaining amendment OF the Judiciary Committee,
proposing TO strike out that portion Of the bill max
log IL obligatory the States to adopt the district
system OF representation, each district 10 DC com
posed OF contiguous territory, and to return ono
Representative; and to substitute PROVISION
leaving IL OPTIONAL with the States TO adopt either the
district or general ticket system, but retaining that
norton eQuicing that the districts sha oe OF CON
i,euous territory sending one Representative, II the
district system should be preferred; ana the qnes-
lion Immediately pending was the numerous propo-
,it,ons TO ill the blank 10 the bill with proper
number 20 constitute the ratio.
MIR McROBERTS said he had made the motion
on vesterday to fill the blank with ,oOO iron the
CONNECTION that that number would give House
sufficiently large for all good purposes, for the trans
action Of the business OF the country with despatch
IL would give number Of members rs small, nc
believed as the House would be disposed TO aeeede
to- On looking over the table prepared Tor Con
gress he found that this number (of the hlghest
numbers) would leave the smallest fractions TO the
small States. The ratio OF $4,000 would give
House OF 1924 members, IT the proposition 10 repre-
sent fractions, by giving such States as have a
fraction OF more than moIely OF the ratio one ad-
d,onal member. be not adhered TO. IL 1t should oe
adhered to, It will increase that number very lilte
Judging from the concurrent testimony oil those OF
Senators
whom that tody was much smaller, he was uncer
the impression that much CRATER despatch IN the
discharge Of the public business would be obtained
by House OF less number than that body - even
now composed OF.
n. in favor of ratio OF 6S 900 in preference
10 all Others because il would reach two important
objects: one. that OF leaving the smallest untepfe-
scented fraction; and the othe. that II would reouce
the number OF members to 22l-a number which,
according TO concurrent testimony, would be more
efficient Tor the despatch Of business than larger
number. IL was therefore, better than the present
number, as it was a reduced number.
He reviewed the argument yesterday offered IN
support Of large number Of representatives, found
ed on the assumption that the glory and greatness
of England we're due to the action OF its House OF
Commons. The elements of the greatness OF that
nation were to be found IN Its Anglo Saxon race
"A race destined 10 the highest elevation IN human
institutions ana civilization, IN spite of all restraints
Of legislation, however cunningly devised by self
privileged classes. lie contended that the broadesi
representation of the people OF England was nothing
ia comparison to the amount o. representation en-
loved IN the United States, where almost every
county, If not fully every county IN twenty-siS
sovereign States, has its representative IN Is own
State Legislature, and also ITS participation IN the
representation ol the National Legislature.
With regard to the principle by which gentlemen
in both Houses now disposed 10 act, that no
State shall lose member in any new apportlonn''nt
he would say that this would be decision that eve
~ years the number ofRepresentatIves shall Oe
And where would the principle end7 In another
hall century the number would be twelve or thirteen
hundred-it would, at least, largely exceed thou
sand. He would vote for no smaller ratio than 6S,.
0Oe, as long il was possible 10 obtain majority
for reduction Of the present number.
MIR BENTON was OF opinion that It was vain
attempt on the part Of the Senate to dictate TO the
House in this matter. The House had duly
weighed and considered the ratio best suited TO IT'S
wishes and conformation. He thought this
not like bill Of ordinary legislation, which the Sc
nate might reject without any interruption to the
machinery of Government. To reject such bill
as this, and suspend all action It, would be to
dissolve the Government itseii. IL Is a contest IN
which the Senate ought not TO engage. Ii would
be sufficient to conhne It's attention the periecting
OF the bill in its details, leaving the general prIncl'
PIES and main propositions untouched. II the Sc
nate to engage 10 any contest with the House
IN matter Of this kind, II would be TO come TO
the wall. What the objections 10 large po-
pular representation They are but two. First,
that large number Of Representatives makes an
irresponsible body; and, next, that it becomes inca
pable of transactng business. The theory in this
Tespec. nigh. be very beautiful in dea-very
beautiful indeed, to few individuals transact
ing business rapidly, and without much need of de-
liberation. But this theory might be pursued until
population progressively increasing tall Il filed
regions thousands OF miles apart should be repre-.
scented by small band 10 lose all the clements
Ct Representatives.
He was in favour OF the largest practicable re- |
II
the popular will reflected, but more particularly |
because the history Of the world had shown that |
numerous representative body is the only safe |
guard Of public liberty. He referred TO the expert
ence Of France, 10 It's transfer oil government from
republican form TO an imperial form. IL was by
Bonaparie's influence, FIRST, over the smaller body
and the Council Of Ancients, when he was First
Consul, that he was enabled TO make his rapid
strides to imperial power His language was
"Why should hundred men be talking about
Ian fbfy dO rOfhs httfv ffr L. I
his policy 10 reduce the legislative bodies tall he
got each OF them under 100; and then there was not
u voice raised for public liberty. He had complete
control over all. A body Of 500 men was too
strong for him; they whipped him with the inteec-
tual power which they possessed; but he succeeded
IN getting them down to 800 and then, by degrees,
tiil he could tell them they had nothing TO say TO
laws-they could do nothing but gabble. Not
only is liberty more safe in a numerous representa-
ton, but so IS purity. The difficulties Of corruption
are increased with the increase OF numbers. a
large body is the safest for the people-the safest
for liberty-the least open TO corruption.
As to the idea that personal collisions and dis
graceful scenes, arising out OF the excitement OF
debate, must be more frequent in numerous bodies
Than in small 1t was an assumption without found
alton. Differences Of opinion pervade small bodies
as we'll as large. There can be no reduction of
numbers which will avoid this, nor was it always
necessary derirable TO do it, Reduce the mum
Der 10 TWO men, and they may differ If they DO
they ore more liable TO prove irreconclable than
numerous body would be. The experience Of man.
kind had proved this.
Fle next reviewed the duties Of the House OF Re-
personalities. He showed that its responsibilities
increased with the increase OF population. a
striking instance would be found in the probabi.i-
~ that hereafter, more frequently than hitherto
that House would be called upon 10 decide Pre- ,
sidenlia elections. In such a responsibility none
would contend that there not more safety in a
very numerous representation than in a very small
one. According as population Increases IN the IA
ture Of things, the number Of distinguished citizens
will be greater, and the influence Of parties 10 con
fine nominations to given limits less. This will
produce such state OF things that, in all probabi-
ty no one candidate have the majority for eIee-
ton required Wy the Constitution. I'm such event
the responsibility Of choosing from the candidates ,
deyolves upon The House Of Representatives.
lie adveTted 70 the practice OF the House Of Com
mons, where forty or nifty members compose the
business part Of the body. lie called the attention
Of the Senate 70 the fact that, in The debaes Of the
House OF Commons, the proportion Of speecbs.
made by the men who do the business conIrasted
by the portion made by those who do or effect
nothing but talk but drop Of water IN the bucket
compared to the whole. These speech.mskers
however, were only tolerated when they could 3.
tngu.sn themselves for some striking qualities In
n foil assembly Of the House they could not hold
out quarter Of On hour, ifthey had not sometime
10 say worth listening to- Tor they would suon re- |
ceiye uncquivO al indications that their own VANITY
reliance on the courtesy Of their hearers would
no, gain them hearing.
In the same way, there would be more business.
and less waste Of time In Improbable speaking, II