Daily Richmond Whig. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1840-1842, 1842-08-23

. IOtuctt, was IN favor Ct IN inpcaCnuieuhea ~
sident; but the gentleman from MasSaehuse,
thought that time for that had no, yet come. II
{ gentleman from Massachusetts, could not be calf
the leader, merely because he was selected TO dra
up report expressive OF the views Of the m Iort
He then entered into an argument against u
veto power, contending that It should be abo'ishe'
and that the trainers OF the Constitution. who wet
not cndued with prescienee, erred IN inserting u
!. that instrument. lie next reviewed tho report :
; the gentleman from Virginia (Nr Gilmer,) anc
though admitting IL 10 be in good temper, prono1nc
ed IL to be deficient in esprit dH eorps-too suue'o,
of the President, and too much OF an ATTACK on IN
Wing marty. lie reviewed the course OF MI ~ Ie
in the Virginia Legislature, upon the Distribution
the public lands and eon,ended that he was commit
ted to the principle OF the law passed nj the extr
session. Next in orier he took up the report mad
by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, tMr logger
soli1 AMI criticised il generally. He charged th'
centlemsn from Pennsylvania with going TO th'
Presidents, and playing the jester TO that officer
W tn dining there frequently; with marching there
| at the head Of a column OF Democratic members
and making speech to the President in their be
half; and with offering the famous sentiment o
"veto and ditto"
| Mr. C. ]. INGERSOLL rose and denied en-.
phaticaly the allegations made against him. Ii was
wholly untrue that he had gone with body OF De-
mocras, and made speech TO the President; neither
had he offered AIRY sentiments of "veto and ditto
| MIR PEARCE here rose and made an expana-
| ton, based on the fact that he had sined to the
| gentlemen from North Carolina Mr. Rayneil a
| conversation between ntmSet anu the gentlemen
from Pennsylvania, MIR C. J. Ingersoll,l in which
the latter had seemingly admitted the truth, Of the
charge made against him-that he would have been
a tory had he lived in the days of the Revolution.
The substance Of the explanation was that tho gen.
teman from Pennsylvania Nr G. ]. Ingersoll
had. in his play ful way, referred to the charge
made against him, in order TO prove his indepen
dence OF character; not contradichns the charge,
but manifestins a stoical indifference towards it.
MIR RAYNER said that none OF his remarks in
i re1a n tho from Pennsylvania IMr-
G. ]. Ingersoll were based on the statement made
TO him in conversation by the gentlemen from
Maryland mir Pearce
Mr. C. J.INGERSOLL said he would assure
the gentleman from North Carolina MIR Raynerl
that nothing which HE had said had made him feel
sore in the least
| MrRAYNER. SO mi ht the .hinoceros say. You
must penetrate the skin, IN order to hurt him.
| MIR SAUNDERS desired 10 ask his colleague
lMr Raynerl single question; and that was-as his
colleague was absent at the time of the passage Of
the tariff bill, and as he declined voting yesterday
though in his place-he desired TO know whether he
| would have voted Tor the bill or no1
| MIR RATNER replied, with feeling that he did not
recognise any right on the part of the gentlemen 10
in;errogaie him as to how he should have ysied on
that, or any other question.
| MIR SAUNDERS. Then the gentleman declines
! to answer.
Mr. RAYNER then said, had he been present. he
rather inclined think he should have voted against
the bill. He answered the question because he
chose to answer 1t, and not because the gentleman
| had propopndcd 1t.
lie then went on 10 nrene that the distribution
question one of the main and most general
issues in the last Presidential contest; and that il
should be regarded as seltled in lha, conflict.
Mr. GARRETT DAVIS obtained the floor amid
multitude of competitors.
MIR GRANGER and Mr. GIDDNGs severally np-
pealed TO MIR DAVIS 10 yield the floor for momenta-
~ explanation; but declining compliance with their
requests
-
great issue which this House was now considering;
it was nothing less than whether it would make
intistory move for changing the veto power ss
tanned in the Constitution Of the u. S. He admit
ted that this power when II was incorporated into
the Constitution, was intended as a conservative
power. In the hands Of Washington it was a con-
sentative power; in the hands Of wise Presidents
OF Presidents who would elevate themselves TO q
position where the strife Of party did not prevait-
would always continue 10 be conservative power;
but the antcipaons of our fathers TO the sphere
in which those who held this power would move,
has proved illusory. He asked his respected col
league, mir MnrshalD in whose genius and poliii-
cal conceptions he had the greatest confidence, II
in his opinion the trainers of the Constitution IN
tended on absolute veto power in the Constitution
The learned gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr
lngersol1 had declared that such power did not
exist. Names did not change things: IN name and
| form h was not VETO; but Mr. ID. proceeded TO
contend that in substance it gave the President ns
full power Of control over all legislation as If on abb
soute veto had been inserted in the Constitution.
II the trainers OF the Constitution had that in
| the practical working OF this power it would have
become memorable and absolute, would they have
incorporated such a power into the Constitution
No. Here stood power, rearing itself in gigantic
proportions, with the strength OF grisly monster
| frownins down when 1t chose every attemp: Of the
Legislature TO pass measures for the good OF the
country. suffering universally beyond precedent.
What did they proposel What did the gentle
man from Mass. (Mr Cushns) who said that this
Congress was about to work its own destiny de
clare when this proposition was before Cong ress at
this session. That they were mediiatng diseolu-
ton; that with sncricsious hands, they at
tempting 10 tear TO pieces this fair edice which their
forefathers had reared Was it not one of the
functions OF CongresstO initiate measures to change
ofIhe Constitution They acting in conform.
ty with the Constitution. Thequestion was wheih-
this anomalous power, this one pc yer, this
power Of tyranny in our Government, was produce !
tive of most good or evil7 MIR ID. and those who |
acted with him, thought it had been productive Of
ten. fold more evil and thew had evidence OF il.
When its effect was 10 s,ihe the popular voice, and
when one man claimed all Legislative besides the
Executive power, it was time to examine this COM
plica,ed piece Of machinery Of Government, and
see whether II could not be improved.
Mr. ID. admitted hat the President had the power
to veto bill; he had the power to veto all bills
and If this power were exercised, would not every
one say that it should be expunged from the Con
stitution1
In the issue tue President he'd made With Con-
gross, two powers ofthe Constitution were involved.
One the power OF the house to originate revenue
measures. They Ind originated and passed one re-
venue measure, and the President had vetoed it,
They had pursued the same course with another,
and with like result from the Executive action, and
now the President required them before he would !
allow them 10 pass another sufficient revenue mea-
sure 10 conform 20 his notions another subject,
not tho subject Of legislation itself. Who, ther ex
ercsed the power of originating revenue laws2 Did
not the President, or did he not attempt to- Just ns
much as though he were TO send them the revenue
bills prepared in all their forms and adjusted in
their details, and require them 10 register his
eIictF. The Presidents friends on this floor had
So 10 them that "orwarned they should be iore1rm
cd" On this meAsur- which had been taken up for
consideration, they had been threatened with veto
in advance, and admonished that, unless they sur
rendered their constitutional Independence, that
less they consented to expunge practically the prin
ciple Of the Constitution which required that oil
revenue bills should originate in the House Of Rep
reieniatives, they should have no revenue measure.
IL was simply q question whether the House Of Rep
70 entatives should exercise this power delegated
them, or whether the President should u5urp il, and
whether Congress would tamely sacdhcs this prin
ciple, and on their Bonded Knees BOW to the Presis
d nrs mandate. MIR -. regarded this o question
OF importance than the tor or distrIbu1n; OF
more importance than all living men, all living mea-
sures. IL was question vitality affecting whole
system OF Government, whether they would yed a
/ power which the Constitution had placed in this
/ Flouse, and which il was their duty TO maintain;
/ whether they would surrender il TO the President
when he siid that he would allow them 10 make no
sufficient revenue law without.
| Mr. ID. had always listened with attention n the
I a. a