The Madisonian. [volume] (Washington City [i.e. Washington, D.C.]) 1837-1845, 1839-12-19

Jerssyi Could the House have more perfect, more
conclusive evidence presented by New Jersey. or any
other State than was presented by these genllemen 70
show thar Ihe sovereign authority Of New Jersey had
devovsd upon them the bearing here Of commissions
20 show that they were the Representatives Of that
| State
| But he would examine the matter liule further,
and he did SO the more especially because OF the fall
lacy which he thought there ia the argument OF
the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Pickcns)
| who spoke several days ago. He had made the
| groundwork of his argument that they were
House OF Representatives before they were sworn,
and, upon this argument, rested the right OF the
house to do-wbat1 Not 10 expel, bat 10 exclude.
So that, ii the Argument had been right, the conclu
sion In relation TO these members would have been,
and ought 70 have BEEN that the house had The right
to exclude them. But the gentieman's argument
was, Than the House of Representatives was known
To The Constitution House before Il was organ
lied, and, in, support OF this, The gentleman had
quoted tho clause in the Constitution which provi-
ded tina, the meeting OF Congress should be on GER
tain day. The Constitution OF the United States de-
cared that the Congress should be composed Of
Senate and House OF Representatives. And he
would concede TO the argument OF the gentleman
from South Carolina more than had been asked for.
Under the Constitution there always House Of
Representatives. There was no interregnum, al
though there might be, BY the laws Of particular
States failure the part Of those States 10 elect
members. II might have SO happened that, al the
late special session. some States might have been
nnrepresented on this floor But there was always
! Congress, there was always House OF Represen-
tatves, and he agreed with the gentleman from South
Carolina, that man was member OF the house be-
fore Congress assembled, and before he was sworn.
But then let the gentleman look al the effect OF this
fore the house assembled how did they cease 10 be
So No SIS voice was here lost TO the Reporter
Mr.. PicKENs rose to explain. They were House
OF Representatives competent to decide the prelimi.
nary question as 10 who entitled 10 returns and
they must be So from the necessity of the case He
had not spoken of legislalon.l
Mr.. SERGEANT. Be il SO. He would come to that
| presently. he was now concedng 70 the gentleman
land had listened TO his argument with attention,
| and had retained IL on his memory, so far as he
could, because he thought that what fell from him
1 was worthy of consideration, and might make an
impression on this house, Mr.. s. was now
concedng TO the gentleman more than his argument
embraced. And he conceded the conclusion to be
that the honorable gentleman was member Of the
House Of Representatives before he came here-that
he (Mr. So was so-and that the State OF New Jer-
sey had members before any one appeared here in
/ her behalf
How. then, was i. ,ha. the gentleman became mem
! Der Of The House Of Representatives Was il by the
act Of this house, Was i, by being swornl Was it
by being recognized by this house | No. The Presi-
dent might call extra session before the time fixed
| by the Constitution. Who came herel A member Of
1 Congress! No one else approached But whom did
I the President invite The members Of the house
To whom was the proclamation issued To the mem
bers. Who have the ranking privilege! The mem
bers, Who are privileged from arrest The members
Of the House Of Representatives The moment they
left their homes they privileged from How!
As members Of Congress. and because they arc so.-
! Then there House Of Representatives always
existing, and there the members Of Congress al
ways existing, II the State choose elect them
4 leave vacancy. And the question came,
whence was the authority derived What the
Idence offered Here the law Of New Jersey
The house had right TO judge of that evidence and
If it found that evidence to be according the law Of
the State, what right had the House to shut the
door upon those who possessed it. than the Congress
Of the the United States had Itself made the law (!
Under the Constitution of the United States Con-
gress had power to make laws Let him suppose that
Congress, IN the penude OF its power had enacted
law IN the very terms Of the law Of the State Of New
Jersey, and had determined that the Governor of New
Jersey should determine the returns under the law, and
that the commission should be given by the Governor
IL might seem easy thing pass by the rights Of
State founded upon her law . /. But he
would ask again, il this principle embraced in an
act OF Congress precisely n the terms in which it
contained in the law Of New Jersey. thor.
Der who would deny to that commission its full con-
stitutonal and legal efficacy
But further, 1t had been said that the member was
4 member before he came-ihat he was a member
when he came, and that he was member after he
was sworn Mr. S. would now put this question
! Whsn and how did he cease TO be member of Con-
gress Mr. SIS voice was again losto How then
was ~ He would tell gentlemen. By the necessi-
y of the case, they were bound 10 look into the cIe
denias and 10 see If they conforned 10 the Consti-
tuition and laws Of the State. What was il that the
house had been going into! Not into the question
| whether the commissions Of these gentlemen were
or were not conformable to law (tor no one had
conlIovered that point,) but whether, in the Ian
gnage OF the gentleman from South Carolina, these
members bearing commission were entitled 10 chat
4 commission In other words, this house was TO en-
terrain an appeal from The Governor and Council of
| the State of New Jersey, and to decide that they
should moi have granted commission to these gen
emen, but that they should have granted it to
one else From the moment that The House Of Re-
representatives. existed-fand, under the Constitution
It always existed from the moment that under the
law OF the State, any gentleman had credentials 10
prove according to these laws, that he was men,
Der OF the House OF Representatives there then
: among them all, an absolute and unqualified parity
"a parity SO universal that no number oil members
had any more right to decide upon the paper he had
brought than he had TO decide upon theirs And
presently, ne would show that this was unavoidable
| under the constitution.
/ Mr. 5. here supposed case, for example, in which
member had been arrested and where application
/ had been made to the court for discharge on the
ground Of privilege. Could the court go into the
inquiry whether the individual was entitled 10 that
/ privilege! or whether, by virtue of some election
another person was not entitled 10 that privilege -
Mr.. D. believed no one would SO contend. II the
court would not entertain the inquiry what was the
RESULT That II must be judcially decided that he
is member OF Congress, and such, is entitled to
certain privileges.
The answer 70 the argument Of the gentleman from
South Carolina was this that through oil the stages Of
existence, until sworn in here, they are members and
that when they were here there was an sbso-
lutte equality among the members. Had they right to
make la~sl No Had they right to decide upon
each others elections! No. Had they right TO act
ludcially No, But they had right to claim what
ever privileges belonged to their membership anecedent
to that period When they came together here, had
,heya right to make laws before they were sworn or
before they had elected Speaker and organized
No Had they right to act judicially No. They
could only act to the limited extent Of looking into the