Richmond enquirer. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1815-1867, 1839-12-12

dence first and then decide and the sooner that course
was adopted. the better it would be-
Mr. WISE commended that they had no tIeht eSal''he
into any thing further than the prmd tdcc evidence
under the Constitution and the laws, and thai IL was
not competent for the body al the present tinr 10 ecF
into snch an examination Of The question as was su@
rcsted by ms colleague. The House must hrst DC Or
Ganizd and the members sworn, before they can ceI
nnon The discharge Of important judicial nvcStigi
ton as the one proposed By his colleague. The nei-
hers from New Jersey had exhibited TO the House Prm"
t,re evidence of right, and could not be deprived oil me
privilege of voting upon every question when ght
arise.
TO which he had predicted Monday last they must
come that was that the presiding officer must decide
the question He had told the Clerk at that time at
he would be bound to decide the question rs to VINO was
entitled to rights on that floor from New Jersey; ana
the Clerk had only escaped from making this decision
bv declaring that he could make decision he pre-.
sent Chairman however. had decided the question, and
this had fulfilled his prediction that 1t must be decided
bv the presiding officer the body The Ccrk had de-
cded that he could put no question TO the House, and
the House. from the law of necessity, compelled to
put some person in the Chair who would put questions,
and when the gentleman from Massachusetts declared
that he would put the question to the body nope rose
within him. and he that the House was about TO be
relieved from its cmbarrassmcnts. Mr. w. proceeded
to comment upon the of proceeding, at some
length and concluded by eulogizng the conduct OF the
Chairman for his efforts to bring about an organization
of the House.
Mr.. FRANCIS THOMAS observed, that he
very reluctant take any part in this debate, for he
was sensible that very little could be said by any
body on the subject but yet he could not sit tamcly by
and see decided that the claimants to seats from New
Jersey should dispose of question in which they are
personally Interested Before he proceeded to treat OF
this question of ORDER he hoped he might be permitted,
as latitude had been allowed to others, to say few
words looking TO the merits OF this controversy II has
been said from side, that this House has no evidence
in its possession by which the truth OF the certificates OF
the Governor Of y. j. to the five members who claim
seats under it, can be controvercd. Now, said Mr. T.,
that the fact Isl that this House not ADVISED
of matters justyng resistance, ine to the rights
claimed under these certificates Have we not that be-
fore us which should make upright and impartial
Judge refuse to decide the question in favor of those
who claim under the Governors certificate, until he
has examined further Is there member here who
does know that there facts not on the face oil
the certificates, which material to the truth OF TINS
issue: Is not notorious that majority of tn" popu-
lar vote of New Jersey was given to the hve gentle
men who came here Representatives from that State
who have moi the certificates of the Governor: Had
not the Governor of New Jersey himself admitted this
in his several messages:
Mr. GRAVES to n question of order. The
gentlemen was debating the merits Of the question as
to the elections in New Jersey, which was not before
the House
Mr. T. said that if the gentleman would permit him
to 90 on, he would show that in the nature oil the
main question was to be found proof that the gentle
men arc Interested in the decision of the question
before u.s. and arc therefore, under the rule prccluded
from voting put il to this House. Mr. T. said five
have before facts which should make us all pause
if we would do Justice. would give the seats to mel
th,r party for the present. But have not the evl
dencr OF the Governor HIMSELF that the five gentlemen
whom he gave his certificates did not, and that the
other five gentlemen did, receive majority of the POI
puar vote: Did not the Governor, IN the ahorcd argu-
ment he made the occasion, express his regret thai
the tcchnicalitcs of the New Jersey laws prohibited
him from doing Justice to the gentlemen who had ma
iortv of the popular vote, and console himself with the
belief that the Congress of the United States who
would be bound by such restrictions, would on hear
ing the evidence, award to them their seats: Besides
this evidence of the Governor of New Jersey himself,
what other testimony is before entitled 10 considcra-
tom We have the certificate of the Secretary OF State
of New jersey verified by the broad seal OF The State,
that he has in his Office file of the original poll books
of the elections, by which appears that these same
gentlemen, whom this House is called on TO exclude
received majority Of the popular vote.
Mr. Il. said he knew that il had been avcrred that
illegal votes given in the two election districts,
the returns of which were suppressed, which, de,
Quoted from the whole number Of votes gwen, would
leave ma ority of in favor of those to whom tho
Governor awarded the certificates. But, said Mr. T.,
the Governor himself in the statement he has gwen,
said word about illegal votes and that IL not
now the question before the House. We not now
ABOUT upon we ABOUT 10
cal rong is dc"Sned r we ms 9 aeet our
that We may conveniently collect testimony.
How do |, asked Mr.. t. connect these remarks with
the question of order; The gentleman from Virginia
mir. Wiscl has offered a resolution that five Of the
claimants from New Jersey shall be treated members.
This resolution the gentleman from South Carolina
MIR. Rhetl moved to be- laid on the table The motion
for laying the resolution the table is III effect, as
much motion to reject it as II would be u we had the
proposition itself directly before the House in its adop
ton All these rights, arising from occupancy of
seats on this floor, arc, therefore, involved IN this
question. What are these rights; member of Con
gress has certain personal privileges, and when he
has taken his seat he has those personal rights to
protect as well as his political rights which he shares
with his constituents. He need not dwell TO emu.
mcratc those personal rights They would occur
readily to every intelligent person They were, pr.
vilcgc from arrest for debts, title, pay, and others OF
like character all of which valuable and protect
ed by law. And yet gentlemen not only contend that
these rights and privileges shall be secured to the par
ties by their votes III the first instance, but they
tell us, that when sworn III, these Jersey candI-
dates to such position as to MAINTAIN thcr
seats bv their own votes thrcugho the session No
one gentleman is TO vote in his But four of
the New Jersey members might vote upon the case OF
one Of them IL arises, and thus they are to eject
Speaker and other officers, and afterwards reject or
pass all the are to have before us more
monstrous doctrine he never before heard advanced.
Mr. T. here alluded TO the declarations made by the gen
tcman from South Carolina, (Nlr Thompson and SAID
il gave him pleasure TO hear that gentleman declare,
that delcacy well the feelings of man of honor,
would prevent him from voting under these cIrcum-
stances although he believed that the rilc strictly con-
strucd, did not forbid ii.
Mr.. L. asked if any members could take the Speak
crs chair with that generous exutation which ought
to be felt by any called 10 preside over such body,
if elected to il by such means | must protest, Mr.
r. said that the Chairman, (for whom must always
manifest personal rcspcctD has usrrpcd power in this
instance that does not belong TO his Office lie has un-
dcrtakcn TO draw this question within the vortex of
order, and decide that which the House itself only
decide he has undertaken TO throw the weight of
his character in the scale against us, and to determine
who shall be allowed to vote members of this House
In conclusion Mr. T. invited the members to read the