Richmond enquirer. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1815-1867, 1839-12-21

vns dchateahlc There were no rules now ohu'hS On
the House, and he did not undcrs.an" .0St sns
Il mcntarv law prohibited debate on such motions.
The SPEAKER gave it is his opinion that The mo-
ton was not dcba;cabe.
/ Mr.. BELL. was If the opinion with the zen
,,on,n from Massachusetts, By The common par!la
mrntary law motions to lay on the table were as 'uc
debataic as any other motion: and the rule that pro-
hbitcd debate them was an arbitrary onc "hch uu
not now prevail He hoped the Chair would review ms
drcs;GI rs several gentlemen wished I" speak on 'i'
question: who had not hitherto participated III the de-
bate :.
MIR. WISE asked if he had the right TO Withdraw ms
resolution ut any tIine
II The SPEAKER replying i'll the affirmative,
i Mr. WISE said he would give notice to gentlemen
that if this motion was persisted in, M would Withdraw
his resolution and renew it in some other form Gen
tlenen would perceive therefore, that they could not
get rid of this question, for he could present 1t IN some
\ new form as often as he pleased.
i Mr.. EANDERPOEL asked II he understood tle
Chair correctly, in saying that the rejection OF TINS re-
f solution in negative form, would be regarded by the
Chair a mandate TO swear these gentlemen.
!! The SPEAKER made few remarks in reply winch
were very mpcrfcctly heard by the Reporter but he
was understood saw that he would regard the rejec-
ton of the resolution equivalent to an affirmative
decision, that these gentlemen should be sworn.
i Mr. yANDERPOEL then said, that after such an
ntmaton b. the Chair, he would withdraw his motion.
i Mr. WISE who had the floor, said that he did not
wish to proceed this evening with his remarks and he
would therefore, with the permission of the House,
Weld the floor to the gentleman from North Carolina,
MIR Shepard, to enable him TO make an explanation,
with the understanding that he had the right TO It the
! first thing in the morning.
| Mr. SHEPARD of North Carolina observed, that
this debate had been extended for two weeks and though
he cid not believe that he could throw any light on
subject which the best talents had been employed IN
the Of the debate; yet as the course which he
had thought it his duty to take had been somewhat DIT
crent from that expected BY most gentlemen, he deem
cd but iustic IN tO M ke
of il When we assembled here, said Mr.. >, some
weeks ago. certain gentlemen from the State OF ~ Jcr-
scy appeared with certificates that they had been elected
Representatives from that State, similar 10 the one
which possess; and referring to the laws OF " j.,
found that the Governor of that State authorized to
receive from the Judges of the elections the returns OF all
the votes gvrn to count them up and To give comms
sons 10 those persons who received majority Of the
votes Sir, said Mr.. >, these gentlemen who claim to be
admitted to their seats here have the certificates OF the
Governor, stating that they were duly elected and it
seemed TO hun they were entitled 10 take their seats
and Ia participate in the organization nf the House by
the election 81 Speaker II seemed to hun, then,
said Mr.. $, that he had more RIGHT 10 refuse
ciac with them members o. this House, and 10 I'M
peach the validity of their credentials than they had TO
= refuse 10 associate with hum, and to mpeach the valld
" Of his. The Governor of ~ Jersey is the officer
3 charged with making out the returns of election, and
though appointed by the Federal Government, his
statements Of the returns binding If he acted
under our authority. The commissions which he gave
we're in conformity with the usage which had always
prevailed in this country, and i'll the country from which
our institutions were derived; and in both countries
the of the returning officer always considered
valid and binding until proved by good and sufficient
testimony to BE- wrong fraudulent. This was the
view which he took at the first and which he took
now. He would not 90 into an argument 10 show the
truth of this position, Tor il had been already nbly
argued that he had much respect for the House to
consume their lime with repeating arguments that had
been so often used But gentlemen c0ncndcd
that fraud had been committed in giving these returns.
Admit that this the fact: yet II seemed TO him that
they had right, according II parliamentary law
and usage 10 inquire into ii al that The gentle
men whose seats wrrc contested had as much right,
as h. believed, to inquire whether fraud had been
committed with regard to is credentials, as he had
10 inquire with regard to theirs. Indeed fraud might
be committed all hands. The certificates of the
Secretary of State OF The Stat" of New Jersey, con-
testing the verify Of these returns, might themselves
be the result Of fraud and therefore, III the preli-
minary stage Of their proceedings, he thought they
could 20 into examination Of them These reasons,
and many others, which hc would no; trouble the House
will. rcclting, induced him Ia rive his votes III favour
of the right of these gentlemen 20 take their seats. lie
thought they were entitled have their the
roll, and lc therefore voted for the first proposition OF
the gentleman from Virginia, Mr.. WISE which was
lost Another resolution was offered by the gen.
tcman, affirming that they entitled to take thcir
seats and leaving the question of ultimate right 10 be
decided by the House. after organized For this
resolution he also voted On Saturday last, the gen
tcman from Virginia introduced his third resolution
the subject; and the motion to lay il on the table
he voted in the affirmative and h. had risen
: for the purpose of explaining has vote that
occasion, than 10 into argument the pre-.
sent question. When the motion to which he had
= referred made, il seemed 10 HIM that they had
= already consumed too much time the various qncs-
> tons connected with the subject, and that good
" could result from keeping i; any longer before the
: House He thought II time to lay aside this
veXcd question, and proceed at once 10 the organi-
cation of the House. and 10 the despatch of the pub
u lie business There was, therefore, inconsistency
in the two votes hr had thus given. lie voted accord
in 10 the dictates orhs best Judgment, and subsequent
reflection had convinced him that he had acted correct
H. II seemed him that the question had been settled
: By the preliminary meeting, that these gentlemen
should take their seats, and participate in the organ
zaon of the House. and that would therefore he bet
: ter to leave the controversy TO be decided III the
. ordinary way by the House, upon IFS merits, after
: the action of the Committee OF Elections. lie
must take this occasion 10 say thai he had voted
> for the two resolutions Of the gentleman from NIr-
gnia, with the greatest reluctance. In what he
was about to say, he begged to lie understood as not
wishing intending mpeach the motives of the
: ,lcmcn from New Jersey, who came here with the Go.
vcrnors certificates did he wish 10 mprach the
conduct o the Governor himself But hc must say, that
when he heard the evidence read at the Clerk table,
, mpeachng the validity of these returns. in which II
was concusively shown that the gentlemen who contest
the had received majority of the votes given at
the cccons-wcn be heard the evidence read that the
clerks of two countless Mllye and South Amboy, had
suppressed the vote given at these countless and when he
heard the evidence that the Governor himself admitted
both these important facts. and rcgrctng that the tech
u ncacs of law prevented him from giving the returns
to those who had received majority o! the votes
socd himself S the bciicftha the House would do jus
tcc all partieswen he had seen proposal made last
:, summer in the public papers, by the gentlemen com
mssiored by the Governor Ia throw up hci. commls
slpns and 70 again into election; thus admitting
y DOUBT Of their rights, he could not avoid enter
tang the suspicion that gross fraud had been practSed
1t seemed TO him. Mr. 5. said, that throughout the
whoi" contest here, one party had made use of tho
forms and techncates Of law TO cover up mean ant
dcsplcabc fraud while tho other party had attempted
break down all the forms of law in order to attain ab
stract Justice: and beIng awovinc and law.ab!da!