Constitutional Whig. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1824-1832, 1831-06-06
RnfoRM-Adi0ernrl Debatc continued.

Mr.. Campbell was at loss to discover the pr;nclc
ot the hon general" motion What was there aaicai
OF sacred III the number thirteen? Lord Coke had said
thcrc was something singular IL the number twelve
There were twelve tribes of Egypt-twcvc sirs OF tho
: odiac-twrlvo diScples---twclyc apos,cs--..wclvc
months in the year, and twelve judrcs of En,laud-
augherbut whut there was in 5l3 he had vet to find
out Again, with respect to the nu,bor fortv.6ve for
Scotland, why that number be preserved invo-
tic he had no means of knowing. Could it be marin
cd that whatever changes nigh. take place with respect
90 the wealth and increase of population of Scotland,
1T the number fortytvc should remain UNMARRIED for
ever! The principle of returning the members to Par
Lament was laid down so long Edward I-he laid it
down i'll tho which iir had issued, end no
Nr. c. trusted that the time was ut hand when that
principle would bo recognized again, and acted upon
its largest acccptation He (Dir Campbell) like tho
honorable member for Preston, should wish for unver
tai suffrage did he think that such a system was p-ac
ticablc QIear) But he knew that it not, and if
attempted would lea to the overthrow of evcrv thing
that was sacred and valuable in the constitution snr
IF this argument of the gallant general were tcnlbc
We might go back to the Hoparchy aud learn the
numbers Of the Wmttcnagenot TO show that none of
the divisions OF the kingdom should send deputies
than they did them And as TO this number of 53 how
had it arisen? From the abuse of tho prerogatvc of
the CROWN and not om the representatives of counties
or largo and populcus places He did not see any
grounds for complaining of tho dimnut;o of tlc
hers, the prc'cncc that, by the original constitution
of the House of Commons, tho numbers fixed
On referring to the time of tho Tudurs it would be
found that tho whole number was seldom moro than
1S1 md in the reign of Henry VII. and his three
children, 154 were added to tho humber With these
additional representatives, Cornwall, however, had
such proportion at present. for i'll the reign of Ed
wurd 1. only twelve members sent for Cornwall;
and would be found that in the reign of the Tudors
but sinGll number of those icudcd i'll schedule had
representatives. lie did not think the instruction of
the hon, member for liverpool of that importance as,
il il carried, tiat the bill ought pas. Yet
calculated much to h1rrass its progress in future
stages c should, therefore, oppose it, and give the bill
his support.
MI FAME said hid the bill been consistent with the
consultation il would have but little opposition
They had heard much about the necessity of the
sure, but little of its benefits. Some had said Il would
relieve dstrcss but those who had said only delu
ded the people. Ifthey had commerce. they have
4 navy; fthcy had monarchy, they must have civil
list if they had church, they must have tthcs; ind
if they wished preserve national honor they must
pay the annual dividend. 1t said the bill would
in time give us cheap government They ough. to
jidgc however of such statements with due caution
and be guided rather by past experience by history
than by theory. Tho people agcinst Charles l.
because he required 20000oI year; seven or eight
years of civil war succcedod Cromwell gained power,
and he exorted from the pockets othc people two mil.
lions year. So much for cheap governments. The
present House represented wealth, poverty, agricul-
turc commerce, &c but the bill of the noble lord re-
presented only two classes, the landhoder and the
householder. The aboring classes prescribed,
ard the political pyramid overhrown That part Of the
plan which gave the power of the God Terminus to
the Prvy Council, still Objectionable. Res
pcctng the numbers much had been said both by the
Scotch and the Irish about the repeal of the Union but
complaints had been made about the number of the
representatives But if the numbers for Ireland and
Scotland v-erc to small, members from these
countries not competent bring the subject before the
House and leave Parliament to decide fairly the sub
ect but to attempt to carry tby Disguise, insulting
TO the United Kingdom.
Mr.. Wbraham said, he would give his decided neca-
tive to the proposition of the gallant general He was
neither jealous OF Scotland nor Ireland and of opn
ion that the House would work better by dinlnution
OF numbers. Had the petition oftc people be cn atten
dcd to-had the corrupt boroughs been DISTINGUISHED
and the franchise been to the manufacturing and
commercial towns, substantial reform might have
been effected But, instead Of that, when he saw that
tho corruption OF such borougES always CLOSED
tt,,tt nI,. ,loL
dcrate reform proposed last gear by the hon. mombcr
for Tuvisock rejected and above AL! when he saw
the that made of the disfranchsemcnt of East
Retford he dcspared of moderate reform. The nica-
sure brought forward by ministers great and g!o
tiouS measure.
Mr. Hawkins spoke as fo!lows:-"As consider the
present motion Of the gallant general as the first of
SERIES of somewhat similar measures whose tendency
will be to defeat tho present BILL aud all such at
tcmpts prepared to give the most strenuous oppos
ton i'll my power, shall take this opportunity of sta
ting few Of tho which have induced me 10
consider the schedules y and the most Important
and Indispensable part ofthc present measure. tcur)
The sacrifice TO great constitutional necessity oil
tc privileges of those who have nrstod their
to INV keeping demands few words in Justification of
painful duty; and the especially so as in tn
instance, this sacrifice of them rendered
less painful to by any corruption their part. If
had paid, about to pay, directly or indirectly
t. myself others asnglc flrthiu for the seat now
)nd, Z might have been expected to reconcile myself
'rhou: regret to this vote, upon the incontrovcTble
plea that purchase makes property, and that had
right 10 do THAT like with my (ifeur, hear and
l1ngh But sir, have sucI, excuse 10 offer to
my constituents, the smallncss Of whose numbers is
cir only fault, unable TO avail myself IF slc IN
application of constitutional doctrine either in
cXcusing Tys If to them, in arguing to the House,
yet think have reasons good enough. One class of
DO not venture into the brunt of the bntte
With bold and decided opposition reform but always
entertain sincere conviction at any given moment
that the present is not the right for the discus
sion of this qIcstionlIcar hoar]-anl they arrive at
such conviction by this ingenious dilc:lma-hen the
people clamorous for reform they tell that we ought
not 20 conccde such to the demands of popu
Jar turbulence; and when the people silent that ST.
l"ncc is proof Of Indifference and therefore, the n,aa
size nod 10 passed. lIcor, hear, hcGr.J Another
argument OF auTcrSarlcS conCCTa:IT tho way in
which THIS has been received by .lU people Of
England, viii notice account OF its originality |
and ct this stare Of the debate, should he uraaso
ube indeed if not thankful for originality Of
argument in any shape tlfcar lcar.1 IF am referred
the records of history for the tc-doeds of our repre-
sentative system, that histor tells Of alterations
il that system, compared with which the present
measure dwiud!cs into nslgrifcdncc. Hear, hear1
II told that the transfer of the elective franz
chiso from Cation TO Birmingham without judicial
procedure, Il violent innovation, cannot but racol
!ect that, within little thap century, indepcn
dent Legislatures have been blofcd from tie pare OIL
tho constitution, hear land with them the grca