157-10044-10068 Date 08/06/95 Page 1 JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM ' IDENTIFICATION FORM exer care cee cae cae Om eee eve cove cvs cove reve ove (000 (mats san (ane cane rane ane sane SRE CIEE GOED GORE GORE GREE CORE UKE GORE CE SEE SEE GEE ENE OEE EES EET EES EET ED EoD LED SE OR SON fou em ew cone wow cous sont nes en ae) ee nm) ney ney aeey ne MEY GEE GEE GER SN ED SD SED SD eee AD ED OED ee ee ce AGENCY : SSCIA RECORD NUMBER : 157-10014-10068 RECORDS SERIES : HEARINGS -AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 09-H-09 eee caer ae eee cove eve cove cuee reve vewe coves voit: Ob S900) “aGL OOM) One) ne) Lanes Re) Vids EE ED SRD GERD ED GRD CED UD GERD ED GEE GOED OEE COED COE GET EEF CEP Utd EEE ETS GFW OTD SrTD WOE Wn wom wow rw nh nei aes am ane cam anes eee eee GID AR AED GEE Se SD moO em coy ant GOD CE eo eee em ee een ew oer ee DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : SSCIA_ , . FROM : TWEEDY, BRONSON TO : TITLE : DATE : 10/09/75 PAGES : 45 SUBJECTS : CONGO ASSASSINATION, LUMUMBA OPENING CRITERIA COMMENTS CIA DOCUMENT TYPE : TRANSCRIPT CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : 1A, 1B CURRENT STATUS : RELEASED WITH DELETIONS DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/25/98 ([R] ~ ITEM IS RESTRICTED HY 50955 Docld: 3242735456 Page 1
SEES renrecy Fog th ee Sa", 78 {eblosuta; subject \Sanct tena.” The United States Senate Ride7 Report of Proceedings TeevegRer Ease 8. av Hearing held before Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations With Respect to Intelligence Activities Thuraday, October 9, 1975 Washingtun, D.C (Stenotype Tape and baste turned over to the Committee for destruct). WARD & PAUL 410 FIRST STREBT. S. E. WASHINGTON, D. €. 20003 (202) b44d-Guut
eae are £2 tea dteeis Beer esr pena ahh anes WA Del Jy eee * ¢ , rr] . ft, ee - ) aye? hg sare PAE BE y i 2 | tRSTIMONY OF creme nengetanacnasenenneminte: Bronson Tweedy “ 3 « ry « & 2 ‘ § _Weastenat yt heer, Bp bee TOP SECRET
4 3 « % @ 3 * e ¥ COMMITTEE MEETING Thursday, October 9, 1975 United States Senate, Salect Committee to Study Governmental Operations With Reapect to Governmental Activities, Washington, D. Cc. The Committees met, pursuant to notice, at 4:00 o'clock ; P-m. im Room 407, The Capitol, the Honorable Frank Church, Chairman of tha Committee, prasiding, Prasent: S@nators Church (prasiding), Yondale, Huddleston, Hart of Colorado, Bakar, Goldwater, ‘“athies and Schweiker. Also presant: Frederick A. oO. Sehwarz, Chief Counsel: Curtis R. Smothers, Minority Counsel: Charles Kirbow, Frederick | Baron and Rhett Dawson, Professional Staff Mambers . TOP SECRET Be Tey ithe Fal Bipes rare tn ed
ROSE ek EURET RRCAEN DATES wee ooh AR Sig Mua Puen tira ae DIEING S The Chairman. Would you please take the oath? Do you solemnly swear that all the testimony that you will give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, go help you God? Mr. Tweedy. I de. ¥ a a cy e i] & « bi ee ATO Hast See TOP SECRET
mone ; heen POP} WARD & MAUL ra Sta ag gies Tee SETS yp rae Poa SE gts AMAR NaN as eS ee SL} ‘ 5 Senator Schweiker. Of course, we know now that at the time, ° or very shortly about the same time we were sandina poison dewr. there, certainly it was not political action. In light of what wa know now, would it not mean fairly clearly that this was an euthorization for an assassination? Mr. Twaady. No, sir, I do not believe so, fer tha simple eee) ’ ee reason that although we sent, Dr. Gottlish! and his mater L ; down to the Congo, the Chief of Station was always exploring. as many of thase cables indicats, other means of gatting rid of Lumumba basides assassination. It was always, certainly in my mind, and I think in Mr. Bissell’s mind, a cluar realization -- and certeiniy the Chief of Statian's mind -- “hat when avary- thing had bean axaminad, a succassful way of doina assassination. was uot necessarily to be axpected. Maybe it would, hut i¢ was Ot necessarily to be expuctad. Thus, it was incumbent upon the Chief of Station to keen ae his eye on the whole spectrum of possibilities of aatting ric of Lumumba, politically or any other wav. Sanator Schweiker, We know two thinds now in liqht of this. One is he askad an -aqant to kil) Lumumba, one agent daclined. He asked another anent to mo down and do that, and he assented. Since he spacifically mantionsd the two Sapare te agents, One in which the aqent testified, sitting where vou «re, thet he declined te kill him, tha other savina that he woul:? tuke the poison, it seems *o me verv likely that this lanquece TOP SECRET
1 has to refer to that kind of authority, or I cannot see how Mr. Bissell would have respected -- you say you respect Mr. Brome {mae P07} | i + | piosend and ha operates within the CIA system. Is it not ' inconceivable to you that ha could be doing this without this t | kind of authority? | Mr. Tweedy. No, it ia not. 7 i Senator Schweiker. Hea would be doing it without authority? Mr. Tweedy. No, it is not within my belisf of Mr. Rissall G that ha would be doing it without authority. | Sanator Schwuiker. All right. ' Ona other point. It says,consult the Ambassador if he desires or you mM@y sask his concurrenca if he desires it, and in anv particular case hse does not wish to ba consulted, you can WARE & PAUL act on your Own authority where time does not nermit refearre) i here. I cannot imajine a more blank chack wording, saying, ‘“irst }. Sonsult the Ambassador if he wants to be co,sultad, It also +. Says in that varticular case where he does not wish to be ara) cousulted, you have vour own authority without conferring bec? . me here. I think that this is a® variances with the point you wer: Sosculati:q on earlier, that we hed to have the final qo - bas decision, when in fact it seems to me that that line says, here is authority if time dows not permit referral hera, : . Mr. Tweedy. ! cat. only essure you, Senator, that this was always my uadarstanding, not aven understanding, it was oniih- TOP SECRET
Prine {ares 207} a 3 € PS @ 3 & « B routine, that in any kind of an operation as seansitive as was involved in tha United States that there would be no blanket delegation of authority to tha field. Although 1 quite under- stand your point here, I can only assure you that that is the way I felt about it then, fesl about it now, and balievea this Opinion was shared by the Chief of Station. Senator Schwatker. That you can act on your own authority does not mean that to you? Mr. Tweedy. Not to pulling a trigger or administering Poison or what have you. In other words, we do not want to hear anything about it. If you find a chance to do it, do it and rerport later, no. Sanator schweikar. My. Tweedy, have you ever haard of the words Health Alteration Operation? Mr. Tweedy. What was that? Senator Schweiker. Have you ever heard tha words Health Alteration Operation? Mr. Tweedy. Never. Senator Schweiker. Have you ever heard of a Haalth Atter- ation Committes chaired by a ‘ir. Hermdit tlorton? Mr. Neatly. No. Senator Schviker. Are vou familar that an effort ever Was Madea to Send a biolodical atent to incapacitate Traqi Colonual Fahil “ahdewi? Mr. Tweedy. No. TOP SECRET
WARD & FALL z Sb Wawra, De nde est Street, sigs y 10 bee tee be vay rod pony oie SEINE RET’ 30 Senator Schwaiker. De you know Mr. Herman Horton, or did yeu know him? Mr. Tweedy. Indeed, very wall. Senator Schweiker. Did you know a Acting Chief of the Near Eastern, South Asian Division? Mr. Tweedy. Yas, I did, sir. Senator Schweiker. The Committee has a record of a memo there sent from recommending a Health Alteration Operation Against the Colonel, Mr. Tweedy. I hava never heard of the phrase Haalth Alteration. Senator Schweiker. None of this is familiar to you. Mr. Tweedy. It 4s the first time I have aver heard of it. Senator Schweiker. That is all I have. Mr. Dawson. You dascribed this opsration adcainst Lumumba at various times in your tastimony'as exploratory. To the best of your knowledge, or your knowledqe now having bean refreshed, having sean a varisty of documents, was anyhodv aver asked by the CIA to assassinate Lumumba? Mr. Tweedy. No third narty, no acent. en th ee For instance, who appears in this traffic, he was never asked to assassinate Lumumba. When you say that I characterized it as exploratory, may I just axpatiate on thee for & moment? Whenever, under our system and in our profassion, you ao o:t TOP SECRET gee?
“ > ¢ 6 * cS z « 5 31 to the field asking that semathing be accomplished which clearly ig not the sort of thing that you just do off the top of your head, like having lunch with Mr. Smith tomorrow, but achieving the difficult result, the task of the field is to explore the feasibility of such a request by Headquarters. This might be done quite quickly. It might take an infinita amount of time. Headquarters would axpect the field to report regularly on its prograss, giving Neadquartera a chance to commant, ag we have done in this traffic. This particular modus operandi was no different in this case than the cases of infinitely less sensitivity or importance. That aspect of it “8 was quite routine. There was no way in ths world that the Chics! ‘of Station was goine to come back, air, I understand what you F want, I will have it down in twenty-four hours. He had no inkling that this was going to occur, It took him obviously, ‘totally by surprise. ie had to sit down and examine the feasibility of it. In the end, he could not come uno with ar as.Swer. I think the exploratory nature is in tha innate nature a! our business on something of that kind. Mr, Dawson. Thank you. ‘yr. Kirbow. Mr. Twaedy, assuming that tha Chief of Station out there hed the impression at the time that the MeB8Sunger, Or any Other reason, that this was authorized by the President of the United States, this whole operation, knowing TOP SECRET
| Fee LL oe / My temoery if mot quite as clear. Mr. Smothers. I do not want to belabor tha documents we Prone (Ares 207} 544-4086 have gone over today. As you have raviewad them and as you ; recali this timeframe, and giving us some assistance in inter- | preting what the documents sav, is there any Other matter that beara on the quastion of the discussions surrounding the Lumumba case that we have not gona into thet have come to mind as you think about the circumatanceas of this case that you think will be helpful to this Committee in understanding, if you will, both the quastion of the flow of authority and indeed the scope ! Of what was intended? | Mr. Tweedy. From the time that this was first broached to Me by Mr. Bissell, I do not beliava I discuasad this matter “ 2 q a a & 2 € 8 with anybody alse but Mr. Bissell; certainly ‘Mr. Gottlieb! wher: u. , * he want out on this trip; certainly now that I've bean reminde> “of his taagking by Mr. Bissell, Mr. O’Ponnell;: obviously, the Chief of Station; and my Daputv. T never discussed it aver with Mr. Helms. T suppose | did discuss it with Mr. Dulles. IT think it was much mors that 1 Knew perfectiy well that Mr. Dulles was familiar with it rather than I actually had any conversation with Mr. Dullas on it. 1 think those werw all conducted by Mr. Bissell and passed down to me. I do not think T prohablv had any. es ~ ey Mr, Smothers. Let me understand the referenca to Mr. §{ ae “Q' bowneT 1% Aras you saying you probably discussed it with him? TOP SECRET
s 3 « & e & & a & SMES RK Sastre pact * »: 4 HAP 'f adtetat "TOP SECRET Mr. Tweedy. No, I think probably I did not directly. I was perfectly aware of his knowledge of it, but at thia point ia cannot recall having discussed it with him. To put it differently, there was no reason for me to, because I would have had nothing to say to him that I was not saying to Mr. Bissell, who in turn would have passed it to Mr. Dulles, as he saw fit. And in any event, that énlesa invited by Mr. Dulles, I would not have jumped the chain of command. Mr. Smothara. I have nothing further. Senator Huddleston. Mr. Schwarz? Mr. Schwarz. This 1s the only killing incident you know Mr. Twaedy. The only killing incident I know of. ft is the only question of assassination which (a) I knew of, or (hb) 1 have sever Played any role in. Mr. Schwarz. You refer to the spacial channal of cable, the YORROP. Did you wuver use the VOPROP in any other operation? Mr. Tweady. ‘YAPROP was a one-time thing for this overe-~ tion. We could hav. attempted to assassinate 596,900 peopic and there would always heve been an additional channel set ups . Mr. Baron. We were told by ‘the YOPROP channel, by the review staff of tha CIA that the channel was gat un for ayes TOP SECRET 2
Prone iAves 207} $44-6600 , 2 s a « a g « g EUR Vy See Ree Y etre eae Dae ae At Sele es only -use ‘for the’ Chief of ‘the Afftioa Division, primdrily for personnel matters; that it¢ was -fuat taken advantage of for this operation because it already axistad, Mr. Tweedy. I will not gainsay them, but I think thay are | wrong. I ‘think this wae set up purposefully for this. «This cryptonym was only used for this particular operation. I do not think it had anything to do -- Mr. Kirbow. You were Chief of the Africa Diviaton? Mr. Tweedy. I do not think it had anything to do whatsoever with other sansitive mattara in the Division, not at ali. Mr. Schwarz. Both in the sense that thie is the only assassination matter that you ware ever connected with and the special treatment of tha cables, it was a matter of siqnifant impertance at the timsu, was it not? Mr. Tweedy. Yes, it was @ metter of stanificant importance, as I made clear to Mr. Baron this morning and Mr. Pawson. The Setting up of special channels and special indicators for SenSitive operations was and is a completely common occurrenc: in the Age.cy. It has nothing to do specifically with assessi- nation: a Very common occurrence. Mr. Schwarz. Do you know any other incident in which poisons Were used in your exparisunce? Mr. Tweedy. No. Mr. Sewharz. Wher di? you first recall -- Mr. Tweedy, ‘vou heve appesarad before us this summer formally and in this occasicn. TOP SECRET
wah & PAUL aaa Nea ry tek ea a a @) a0 1. so raat bout . it BME a formally thia morning. You were examined under oath on September 9th and you appeared bafore us informally on one or two occasions. Mr. Tweady. No, just once, whenavar that was; this must. | have been back in June or July. Mr. Schwarz. When did you first racall that poisons were used to attempt or praparea to assassinate Patrice Lumumba? Mr. Twaady. By having my memory jegqqed, I quass. 1 ‘ yemamber the first tima it was mentioned whan somebody said, . would it have been possible that poison had heen sent to the ' Station? I said, yes, indeed, it would have bean possible. Did I know that the Chiaf of Station had sant poison thers, that he had kept it in his refrigerator? If said no, T did not recal) it, but that I would not dqainsay it, that if someone tastifiadl that it was thera -- this has all come back as a result of mv mamory being joggad. I was not -- certainly tha poison was considered; that 1 remember quite clearly. ‘4x. Sehwarz. From the baqinnind? Mr. Tweedy. Yas. That was onvicusly one of the ways tha! it might have been carried out. Mr. Schwarz. 1! would like to axplora for a moment, of é!' the methods that you used to jog your mamory, we showed vou documants. Pid you sea any documents at thea Adancy? Mr. Tweady. No, |! hava Seen none, nor hava T talked to TOP SECRET
P Pi] a 6 _@ a a « ¥ ig rarer | anybody, because there is nobody to talk to who, you | participated in this axperience with me. Mr. Schwarz. You did not talk to Mr. Bissell? Mr. Tweedy. I have not talked to Mr. Bissell. Mr. Schwarz. Mr. Fields? Mr. Tweedy. I have not seen Mr. Fielda;: I have not talked to him by phona or any other way, nor have I saen any files. Mr. Schwarz. The totality of your effort to refresh your- self has been afforts in the course of working with people on the staff of this Committees, is that right? Mr. Tweedy. Correct. Mr. Schwarz. You have not talked to any currant, or have talked to any currant or former Agency employee? Mr. Tweedy. No, sir, not on the subject of this field. i The only thing I have discussed with them, as I told you, ! was working on a job with the Agancy this summer. I quess I ’ ; told Mr. Elder I was going to ba going up to testify primarily to find out whether I could qet a car or something. No point . in discussing it with him, because he would not have told mm anything about it. Mr. Schwarz. Whan you wara told to take steps to Move » towards the assassination of Patrice Lumumba, did you consider declining to do that? If not, why not? Mr. Tweedy. I will try to be as honest with you as 7 ca... 1 certainly did not attempt to decline it, and Tt fale, in view TOP SECRET