“10 11 12 13 14 15 Th 1? 18 19° 20. 21° Re 23 r4 25 Docla: 324293519 . Page 34 by him or by someone else looking at him, obviously .that is a ‘they are recruiting just to do that job. 1OP SECKET 33 problem also, but the perSpective of the individual supplying the information is that he is engaged in either commercial activity which he is wittingly involved in or supplying information, straight. economic information that doesn't have a |: 7 - , top-secret label to it, or else he becomes witting and provides something else... Mr. Bader. That is find. I thought I just said that he is|_ in fact working for a foreign government. | Mr. diGenova. That just didn't answer his question. Mr. Kirbow. A final point, Mr. Bader. Isn't the record of the Agency that the majority of people that they recruit remain recruited becausé they do have some | dropouts, aS we say, when they go back to their country; know when they leave this country that they are spying for the United States Government, and they are hard recruitments that Isn't there a large number of these people that go in that category when they go back to their country? | | Mr. Bader. We don't have a record on that, Charles. | Mr. Kirbow. The CIA didn't speak to that. Mr. Bader. In numbers. or percentages? . Is that your question? Mr. Kirbow. Did they speak to the question of whether or not these people are actually hard recruited here and all of th TOP SECRET — WARD & PAUL
10 11. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 . ss “20 21 22 29 pA £5 Docld: 32423519 Page 35 think they are responsible| if they don't know about it. students, integrity of the academic’ community, and the vulnerability. of | these students to intimidation | in| their tender status us_as 32 don't go back soft and then become hard recruits later on. Mr. Bader. I think it is a mix. I couldn't give you a | proportion. . 7 Mr..Kirbow. And the last thing, Mr. Chairman, because. I think it is of prime concern to many members, as I know it was to me because of the age of some of my children, Mr. Bader, isn' the average age, as reported by the Agency, between 25 and 32; of these people that they actually recruit, and aren't the | majority of them Ph.D.s. or, you. know, the doctoral types? They are not freshmen in our colleges type students. Mr. Bader. No, they are typically graduate students, which would mean that they would) be at a minimum 21 or 22, depending upon the country that they, come from... Senator Huddleston. hat is the wish of the Committee? Senator Mondale, What about this possibility? I am persuaded by Gary's point about the institutions, and I don't “e a | — : i What about saying, or making very strong statement that Coton tne Lopihry Y a ae we. . we are very concerned. about bout the im act of. this program on thea, Nene ee eae en see nEEEnenenammenmmnammeatimmianen mamta eres eee peers eine ener AT aD on the.integrity.of the institutions, on the students, but we are troubled: by the. facti.thatiy we; do, nots the er record does not give” us “the information we need “fully to determi e pe neetse renin an Some ert ae eee our policy, and therefore at the very least- we : ‘recommend Cc, TOP SECRET WARD & PAUL ee oe
“10 11 12 “13 14 15 16 VW 18 19 20 - al 22 25 24 25 Docld: 32423519 | se TOP 5 SECRET oy that the directives ‘require that the academics and the President Le i: ee ee of the university or college be knowledgeable or informed, and cen nets ss oon nn enn a that. the’ follow-on committee flag this issue for immediate eee A kat gem: peat ee TRL y ares Nt + Ae er cee ceca mer tes “eee concern and action as to whether they : should go further. pee te me Tan aed eit AAP, CT oe en apcg a Senator Huddleston. Are there any ~~ Mr. Bader. Mr. Chairman, I want to make one statement on that fact. As the Committee can appreciate, one of our problems in this particular investigation and inquiry was the question of how we could take testimony from the American academic community, because taking testimony from the American academic community, we are breaking them in to this process and they will become knowledgeable that this use of individuals: was going on, which in itself is a decision. So as less than that, we invited on an informal basis four or five American college presidents who happened to be in Washington for one of their American Academic Union or Association or what have you, the Association of American Presidents, I think it is called, and Senator Mathias attended that informal meeting, and we came away from it with the very strong impression that these senior academics, these responsible| academics, were very concerned about. the. unwitting, the problem of unwitting use of American academics. _ They also’ felt. very strongly that their universities should know that ther is a problem, and that they, as a university, then could begin to deal with it. TOP SECRET . WARD & PAUL age 36
TOP SECRET 34 1 What they wanted to know was what was the extent and 2 magnitude of the problem, and the fact. that there was a problem 5 |/and they would. Like to be ina situation to know that it is 4 done on a-witting basis'within. the university. | 5 senator Mondale. So that is consistent with your motion. 6 Mr. Bader. what is consistent with your motion. 9 ' Senator Huddleston. I think it is also consistent that the 8 ||do not want: statutes: guiding this until they ‘have had a time 9 Ito assess and: correct: the misdeeds that’ might have occurred. ‘to |. Mr. Bader. Most university Presidents in my recollection ll felt that if they were avare of the nature of the problem, that 12 ‘they could deal with it as. far. as their institution was concerne 13 lon an institutional and academic senate basis, but it was 14 || inherent for them to know what the. problem was, and that is . 15 obviously an issue for the Committee. 16 Senator Mondale. Does that motion make sense? 17 Senator Hart of Colorado. Restate it. 18 Senator Mondale. That the report flag our serious concern “a9 about ‘the impact of this policy on academic integrity, its. 20{]) impact on the community abroad, its impact on the foreign students, that we are very mindful of the vulnerable Situation chat a foreign student cinds himselé in in this country, that Jat the very least the record strongly suggests, and we support | that the individual academic and the President of the university or college be made knowledgeable of the relationship with the TOP SECRET Docld:32423519 Plage 37 WARD & PAUL
10 lL 12 13 14 15 16. 1? 18 19 20. el Re 295 24° 25 Docld: 32423519 . Page 33 . |ithink it is really a sucker deal to hook a foreigner and tell TOP SECRET ae CIA, and that we ask the .follow-on permanent committee to flag ee o _ this problem to its immediate attention, whether further restrictions ought to be imposed. oh Senator Schweiker. | Fritz, I would buy that if you would include. something about witting foreign ‘students. I still him halfway down the road, you are hooked, buddy, and at that point he has absolutely no option. Senator’ Mondale. Can they do ‘that? In other words, I could see why they could flirt with a student before entering into a relationship with hin, but is it possible to do that | without his knowledge? | | Mr. diGenova. Yes. Yes. They use a commercial’ guise. the recruit him -- | Senator Mondale. oh, I know what the cover is, but mustn't he know that he is passing information back to the United, States? | Mr. Bader. Not when he is in the first phase. Mr. diGenova. He is passing information back, but he thinks it is commercial information, but he doesn't know that - it is going to the CIA, ‘but he knows that it. is going to the United States. Senator Schweiker. And then after you. level with the student, the student is| hooked. He can't ao anything. that is what disturbs me about it. The guy ought to have an option to m ke TOP SECRET WARO & PAUL