HW 53716 A, Docld: 32404703 Page 76 o _3. @ was there? I not only am sure; but I saw him ~~ the commander—in-chief of the Fourth Navy Fleet. When you visited him, are you sure he was there, at that time? I saw him at Baltiysk. I ask you again.... Absolutely; I saw him -= he gave the orders, and that is why they let me go on leave. We will retard to GOLOVKO. ((XG; A and B speak at the same time)) Dead? He died while Chief of Staff of the Navy of the Ministry of Defense. From what you told me yesterday and day before about your Komsomol work, about the Fourth Navy Fleet, and what you told me about your duties there, with maps, etce., my only conclusion is that I cannot believe your story. I would like you to think about it and tell a more plausible story.... It is not a story; this is how it was. .. About where you were at that time, because there is no proof that you were there and worked there. | I do not exclude the possibility that you were there under other circumstances, but I am sure that you did not work there at the time about which we are talking.
HW 53716 SEQRET bee ~ 74 = ' I was not there at any time other than until December 1952, You yourself understand that you must give a more accurate picture. Do you remember -- that in April 1964, when they talked to you here, you said that you had been there longer -= and that you told a different story about your marriage and how you came from there to Moscow? | Now, of course, ((it is)) a different story ((you are telling)), and it is difficult to make a conclusion about where the truth lies -- whether you were there four months, or six, or nine, or.... | But I could not have been there... I arrived... I arrived in the beginning of... on leave from Sovetskaya Gavan’. Well, you, of course, remember that at one time you said that you arrived from Sovetskaya Gavan' at the beginning of the year, and then you said in the spring; I want to talk about this, also. Well, I am telling you -- in the beginning of the summer; I know exactly, I arrived just before the May holidays; I was hurrying because of May ((First of May)). This was the last version of your story; in the beginning, you told a different story. First of May 1952, my father reached fifty years of age, and I wanted... You told the doctor the last time how you arrived, but be fore this you told a somewhat different story. " If it is necessary, I can read to you what you said; anyway, this is what I want to get at -- if you really were there ((in the Baltic)), then you have to tell me more than what you have. I did not do anything else there. And I was not there more ((at any other time)). You can see yourself that what you did was not intelligence work. DoclId: 327404703 Page fi?
HW 532716 DoclId: 32404703 Page 73 But it was! But I do not know.... This is why I left there, and why I did not want to be there. One cannot believe this -- a man was there, but does not know the name of the Chief or the Deputy ((Chief)) and can only give the names of two people.... There was no Deputy at the point; there was a Chief, but I do not ‘ remember his name, I do not remember him. The man was in the Baltic Fleet, but does not even remember the name of the newspaper published there, does not know the address, does not know the field post office.... Icdo not remember the fidd post office. ...Does not know the Komsomol organization.... Well... the Komsomol organization.... You, of course, understand what I am talking about; that story which you have tried several times to -= so to speak -- sell, one cannot in any way buy; I want you to understand this, as friend to friend, because this is very serious. Would I really suck it out of my thumband make up stories for you? I do not want you to make up stories == this is exactly. what I do not want. Well, just as I say -= why should I; why do I have to? All the same, as they say, even though you say, "Why should I suck it out of my thumb?", you still do it sometimes, and sometimes you are not so bad at it -- I give you'a few "credits" for that!
HW 532716 SECRET e _7«. @ But I do not want you to continue to do so in the future. You ask me; I answer as I remember, I did not do anything more there -- only this absolutely. futile. work. I am trying with leading questions, to remind you if you have forgotten; but nothing comes of it. You want... I do not know.... But I cannot tell you anything more, if I do not remember and I do not know. I think we will finish on this ((point)) today; I hope that we will meet again == and not only once; each time we stop, I ask you or warn you that I think that the time has come for you to tell something different so we can believe you.... ((End of Reel #5)) DoclId:32404703 Page 9