180-10131-10332 JFK Assassinatio; System Date: 10/19/20 Identification ‘orm Agency Inform ition AGENCY: HSCA RECORD NUMBER: = 180-10131-10332 RECORD SERIES: SECURITY CLASSIFIED TESTIMONY AGENCY FILENUMBER: 014730 Document Info: mation — ORIGINATOR: HSCA FROM: _ [Restricted] TO: TITLE: DATE: 05/18/1978 © PAGES: 64 SUBIECTS : CIA, METHODOLOGY CIA, STAFF [Restricted] OSWALD, LEE, POST-RUSSIAN I|’ERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO. MEXICO ; MEXICO CITY DOCUMENT TYPE: TRANSCRIPT CLASSIFICATION: _ Declassified RESTRICTIONS: 1A; 1B CURRENTSTATUS:  Redact DATE OF LASTREVIEW: 01/01/2003 OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : Box 7 v9.1 ; . . . I NW 46331 Docld:32277217 Page i
a Peet | cdioeeeg Save] ay page 2 TABLE Ol’ CONTENTS. Testimony of Alan B. White: PSSST Fees ec Bowdeai TOP H RW 48331 Docld: 32277217 Page 2
LAFRANCE:msl . Oo y 43 id 4 1, ' ASSASSINA‘'ION OF JOHN F. KENNEDY | i RD Thursdav, May 18, 1978~ U. S. House of Representatives, | in da aad 2 Saga ae cane rea noes erererg eens | | i i ! 4 John F. Kennedy Subcommittee of | Select Committee on Assassinations), 7 . 7 | | Washington, D. C. | = | } ; Deposition of:. a , ; | "ALAN B. WHITE 0 | | | | H called for examination by staff counsel for the subcommittee, } Wy: ; 4 . i “pursuant to notice, in the: offices of House Annex II, Room | 4 it : : , i hy | 3370, Second and D Street::;, Southwest, Washington, D. C., i beginning at 10:00 a.m., before Albert Joseph LaFrance, a | Notary Public in and for it:he District of Columbia, when were ish. 7 . . 7 i present on behalf of the :-espective parties: | For the Subcommittee: a | MICHAEL GOLDSMITH, ESQ. , Staff Counsel © | Fn | | | For the Deponent: | ito. 720 | (There was no representat:.on by counsel) iy aay be ! i . e® = , - u i ’ { : a i 7 ve se L 7 aq if 3 © “ni i li i . 4 i . ac fi : | j . ee i ,A Ae sy Py ae es : | NW 46331 DocId:32277217 Page 3 T A - AN i a, ° x fi Ho |
2 | Whereupon, ce) | SO ALAN 3. WHITE ara having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as | follows: Mr. Goldsmith. Please state your name and occupation ij for the record. 3 Mr. White. My name is Alan B. White. I am presently 9 involved in real estate. | | 10 Mr. Goldsmith. In wiat state do you live, Mr. White? i | Mr. White. In Virginia. a | Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Are vou here voluntarily today and with- out subpoena? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | id Mr. White. Yes. 1s Mr. Goldsmith. Have you received a copy of the Committee: 16 i Rules and supporting reso lution? Mr. White. I have. | Mr. Goldsmith. Have you had a chance to read Committee Rule Number 4? : Mr. White. Yes... | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you understand that rule? : Mr. White. Yes sir. Pa i, Sine So a Te Ree Ona an A A EAT ae ea sak wd oO - + . . . ‘ a4 Mr. Goldsmith. Do y,u understand you have a right to 4 . Go 24 | counsel? | | be ns “My. White. I do. | : . | HW 48331 pocra:3po77017 Page 4 T if ie LN 4 fi ra Es . : 4d ” ,
a} MD : 1: : da Sd a eT eer io) \. 4 a y iH | ‘t NW 48331 Docla: 302977217 Page 5 | one eee = weomim - Mr. script. Committee has worked out vith the Central Intelligence Agency Mr. eS Ne Bere aa he: Goldsmith. Do you waive that right? White. I do. Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. White, under the Committee Rules the witness has a right to-re:eive a copy of the deposition tran=- However, by virtue of the arrangement that the in situations where we ar: interviewing present or former to waive tion statement. The waiver goes only to the right to receive. a copy. the copy _ Agency employees, I have »een requested to ask those witnesses the right actuality to receive a copy of the deposi- We would naturally give you full access to review “and to evaluate it for accuracy, what have. you, and eventually to sign it and verify it. Mr, Mr. Mr. Mr. evaluate Mr. Mr. ‘which is My. ~ Mr. with JPR White. That would be my only concern. Goldsmith. You ire willing to waive the right to -~yéceive a copy? White. To have it, yes. Goldsmith. You are content simply to review it and it for accuracy? White. Yes. Goldsmith. Have you had a chance to wad the letter labeled J. F. K Doc ument 96837? 7 White. Yes. Goldsmith. Let the record note that correspondence Exhibit 94 used at the Committee hearings, a letter ae as ‘et . i e uP At 40? i
Beis from acting DCIA to the Chairman of the Committee. Do you whether or not there was ¢ conspiracy, to evaluate the per- 2 i understand that letter? 3 Mr. White. Yes, I dc. ; 4 Mr. Goldsmith. The nandate of this Committee is to § , investigage thé assassinat ion of the President, to determine 7 | formance of the investigative agencies including the Bureau, | | 3 the CIA, and finally to evaluate the performance of the ¢ | Warren Commission. Do yor. understand that? 1G Mr. White. Yes. | | 11 i Mr. Goldsmith. Have you had any discussion with any 12 | present or former Agency employees in reference to testimomy 7 G . 13 that they may have given before this Committee? - 7 ' Mr. White. No. | , a Mr. Goldsmith. Have you had any discussion or contact , 1g | with the Agency in reference to the testimony that you are v| going to give here today? I Mr. White. As.of June 1963 I was Deputy Chief of the CIA ia i Mr. White. Only as to my legal rights, not as to sub- 1g | Stance. i : 20 | Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. White, where were you employed in 31 | 1963? _ i | | Station in Mexico city. Mr. Goldsmith. | How many years were you employed with the \ 3 3 RP ke po an a3 CIA overall? oo . 7 oo , | ; Or ART. ’, NW 48331 DocId:32277217 Page 6 TAP ° 34 7 Fish? & 4O¥ ce ee ee eee ates tet Ht sete eat ered yen
| Mr. White. From August 1946 until 31 July, 1976. _ 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. I did not catch the first date. August | 3 ! of what year? : — 3 | Mr. White. August sae. : 5 Mr. Goldsmith. “For the record E will state I am staff | | ‘counsel for the Committee and I am designated to take this | 7 : deposition. oo ; | a | “What were your responsibilities as Deputy Chief of Station 9 : in Mexico City? | | 10 Mr. White. My responsibilities were whatever the Chief 7 of Station decided to have: me do. I would like to be more i2 ‘specific than that but it was a very peéuliar relationship. © | i3 | I honestly cannot be more specific than that. I was requiréd id | to keep myself up to date to the extent I was permitted on 48 | “everything that was going on. | | wt Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Did vour work involved actualy contact 7 | with agents? 12 | “Mr. White. Yes, it did. | | Mr. Goldsmith. Did ‘ou work involve:icontact with the. : z0 | various surveillance operitions that the Agency had? - a Mr. White. No direc:, not direct, ‘dénly through staff ~~ @ 7 13. ! personnel who were direct..y involved in’ it. | | / =| Mr, Goldsmith. ° Were you aware of the nature of the © i4 ‘surveillance operations tiat. were in effect? | a as Mr. White. Yes, I was. Rares athe Pee “ gq 94 rn pt) _ NW 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 7 4 34 1? & 9
da cm) 3 fsa, NW 48331 Docld:39277217 Page 10 ene rene ween me a ae ee eee anes meen stem nee un 4 tt tt i H J if i ‘ i it photo operation? | ‘at all I knew them by cryptonums or transcribers. ce ER Ta “an automatic camera Set up across the street from the entrance ‘to the Soviet Embassy. We had agents living. in there whom I arts to as CIA Document Numbe:: 170 which was prepared by Ann Goodpasture. I would like to have you look at it where it says “Unilateral photo Soviets." It lists Ann Good pasture, alternate CO and internal routing. Does that in any way help you remember what her responsibilities were with regard to the Mr. White. © I didn't arrive until June 1963. -I don't 9G oe ee ee a understand what this was. What was the purpose of these names Mr. Goldsmith. Appaiently Ms. Goodpasture was asked to complie a list of people :n the Mexico City Station and their responsibilities: What. you are looking at is that list. i Mr. White. I knew none of these people. If I knew them Mr. Goldsmith. — Please don't concern. yourself with the other individuals. Mr. White. Okay, a vist of unilateral photos, Soviets. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know what Ms. Good pasture's responsibilities were with regard to the photo operations? Mr. White. As near as I can recollect she picked up the film periodically from the agent who Manned the photo. Mr. Goldsmith. That was Mr. Sam Bernardi? ‘Mr. White. No. He was a station technician; There was _ knew only by erytonym. I am not sure whether she met those ese my ' Al oy aa j di A € iis; | 4!
4 ay Ag ga gp ‘ people directly or whethe: Bob Bernardi, who had been the 2 | Station Technician and then resigned in Mexico, who lived with > | his Mexican wife there, mey have done the direct picking up : ‘ | ‘and then passed them to her. | ! co . . | 5 Mr. Goldsmith. What ébout Thomas Keenan. Do you know what 6 | ‘his responsibilities were: . - . ye "| , | Mr, White. ~ Tom Keensn mainly handled the outside sur- 3 : veillance team. That was his principal responsibility. He 9 did help Annié with some cf the pickup.” To what degree, I | 10 really don't know. But his main responsibility was running | 1 |. the. unilateral surveillance team. ! 12 Mr. Goldsmith. That was the unilateral surveillance team| . Ht - . , { _& : i3 | with regard to the photogi-aphs? | ta Mr. White. No, itws for everything. ' Et may have | 15 included the photographs. This was a physical surveillance | 16 ‘team. | een Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. For the record, I should say that i CIA Number 170 lists Mr. ‘thomas Keenan as being both with the 4 unilateral taps and with --he unilateral photosurveillance. How many: different tvpes of wiretap operations were in ae eee nee ene mere enn Ane pene = a he nanan’ (1 | ae ae consistent with the document which Ms. Good pasture prepared, | effect in 1963. | 7 3 Mr. White. - Types? a 4 H - Mr. Goldsmith. My widerstanding is that there was a \ uo . 22 7 wynilateral operation and 1 liaison operation. AR i pi Pe ‘NW 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 11 7 fie Ae 4a, & = ce Al3
Bas, el: i Mr. White. That is ‘tight. | ° 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Was chere any other operation? | | Mr. White. Not telephone, to the best of my knowledge. ! ‘| | . Mr. Goldsmith. What phones did you focus on in regard | | to the unilateral operation? : ‘ Mr. White. The unilateral operations were ~~ they changed | all the time. The only one who determined what they would be | was Win Scott. I have to say again to the best of my recollec- 3 : ‘tion, that the unilateral. taps were those that we felt we | 19 | could not discretely ask che Mexicans to do. | 1 “Mr. Goldsmith. The .iaison operation was one that you | 12 did jointly with the Mexi-:ans? | . . @ 7 13 Mr. White. Yes. | _— iH a : mt | Mr. Goldsmith. Turn .ng to the liaison operation against | | 1s the Soviet Compound, do you recall how many phones were being |: 16 tapped? . | | ay | Mr. White. You are only concerned with the Soviet target! 1a now? | | | . . | | 1s | Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. We will get to the Cuban later. . | 20 | Mr. White. I honest ty do not: know numbers. | : | a Mr. Goldsmith. What abuot the Cuban operation? — ! © a 24 ; : Mr. White. “Ican't jive you numbers there either. | 4 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Coulli you give some sort of an estimate? |” Mr. White. My recollection is that there was a total of * ~e © 7 | aD ed ny in =. 30 lines at any one time ind that half of those were given to | | To 4h & NW 48331 Docld:3}277217 Page 12 7 | ie . ®
Lf 1 the Mexican Government and the other half were ‘reserved to us./ 4 e) de G43 eerie ect ena ah ee ae Oe nn The ones that were reserved to us the product was shared with the Mexicans on almost al:. of them. I think where it wasn't _ shared it was because the Mexicans didn't want to receive it. in c . I can't put my hands in the fire for the fact that all the ata 6 | Soviet or all the Cuban targets were on the joint tap. I thin ? } some of them may have bee: on the unilateral tap. So, I would 3 1 have to ssy that there were probably more than -- well, the 9 | Embassy itself, the Embassy phones were clearly joint. ! 7 Where home phones we:-e ‘tapped there may have been some | ou | unilateral, some phones that we kept only for ourselves. . | 12 | There were because anything that was on the unilateral system | oo Z 13 H we did not share with the Mexicans. I am trying to think how | is many. | | 1s | | Mr. Goldsmith. Spec:.fically liaison taps against the | J . . 6 | Cuban target? al Mr. White. It is a «uess. Three or four maximum. i . ia | Mx. Goldsmith. Would you read CIA Number 160 through to | the end of the paragraph ut the tope of the page of CIA . 20 | Number 162 starting where it. says "Liaison: Coverage"? | Mr. White. May I as): what this decument is? > 19 Mr. Goldsmith. Certainly. That is an excerpt from the i . 2] Inspector General's repor: of 1977. Mr. White. All righ:. [a] ge 2 ta a Woes Mr. Goldsmith. My f..rst. question is, does that refresh NW 48331 DocId:32277217 Page 13 FAD a .Paor 2 SO AIS g
nh da ta yo “ TAD OCUPE NW 46331 Docld:32277217 Page 14 di Lg BN ‘ ih 4 / . ' your memory in any way as to the’number of phones at the Cuban! Embassy that were being e..ectronically tapped?» Mr. White. I see it says five. I would not have any deme cw nee ese ceee eerste cue ee emcee angen meet eet sin tn in ovat set rare wart rns eae nen acne 6S - recollection of that because when we got the transcripts we just got them in a batch and I never paid any attention to what came from what phone The mechanics of this thing were ‘not part of my responsibi ity. Mr. Goldsmith. I want you to understand I was not ques- tioning the accuracy of your earlier answer. Mr. White. I got th: 30 right anyway. np ee Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, you did. I. was not making any repre sentation as to the accur.icy of. this. particular document. os | ‘Mr. White. I can't lault any part of it'as far.as I can | see. There area couple of subjective remarks about Mexican | officers about being brut.il and. corrupt” but ‘you can say that | : about a lot of Mexicans. ; _ Mr. Goldsmith. This paragraph here in CIA Number 161 says -that mid-1962 "The Méxica 1 officer in charge of the LIENVOY | “asked the american office: at LIENVOY listening pest for the | “telephone numbers of the suban and satellite Embassies in. | anticipation of possible soverage.: The station immediately : * disconnected ail of the urilateral telephone’ taps on these Embassies so that they would not be discovered when the ‘Mexicans hooked up their taps." I am sure you understand that. Prior to mid-'62 was the Leet if a a ee AG.
liaison operation such thit both the Mexican and the Americans: were jointly tapping the soviet, Cuban and satellite Embassies? ab | “Mr. White. The impl:.cation here is that the Mexicans were not but wanted to. ‘fou see, this thing did not get ise Started until apparently, according to this, until mid-1958. There are a lot of mechan..cal type bugs to work out of an | | | | I : | | ! | operation of that sort beiore it begins to function properly. | | So, I have no reason to believe that the Mexicans were tapping! ' | | ‘ ! | 9 It was before my time. the::e so I was only dimly aware of what | 10 4 . we had been doing against the Soviets and satellites at that ; "| time. | | 12 | That: succession of events would have: been. logical because we kept.cur unilateral.taos away from the Mexicans at all times. — Mr. Goldsmith. What would the station have been working on jointly with the Mexicans prior to 1962? _ Mr. White. Probably communists. am eee mee ee remeron teed EMRE, ae ee eee Sh ana oy Mr. Goldsmith. What happened to the transcript that were} i 4 | | 1a | Mr. Goldsmith. Individual persons? | Mr. White. Yes. i ; ; cel Mx. Goldsmith. As ooposed to the Embassy Compound? | Mr. White. Yes. | | 4 : 1 : i. made of the conversations that were the subject of electronic | a a4} surveillance? ; i ot} . as fi Mr. White. The transcripts came in-several days after . ty ene a3 PERE ae \
ada to , TAR OFA ‘a NW 48331 DocId:32277217 Page 16 | fi . “ r if a ip 1 . 418 a es pers ts TT % ay as HO dee Soo af x i aes ¢ BO $ . Jee VEL) 14 . ; | ‘the conversation took place. As I recall we got either the © : following morning or the rext morning -- I am sorry, the | morning after the convers:tion took place or two mornings | later we got a summary of what had been said, depending upon | ' the interest, and that sunmary was routed to specified officers in the station. Not everybody saw everything, as far as I | know, other than the people who processed the material like | Ann Goodpasture and maybe in her absence Tom Keenan, the people who saw ituwere section ct iefs. and myself and of course. the : “station chief. Anybody who wanted anything broken out further} . would mark the passage, send a note to Annie or go to her with it an~ Say "get a covplete transcription of this conver- { sation." ! I always found the simmaries ample for my purposes. | ; ‘Since I was not working ir. detail with any of the operational 7 targets, since I-had to kind of oversee all the operations | in the station it was selc¢om that I myself, asked to go back | for something. So tO ansver your question with regard to eran scriptions, what was done with them, I can only. say that L£ | _ { they were in Russian they weould have ‘to go back to Boris and | get him to run a complete transcription or if they were in some other language we ha. a Polish-Czechoslavakian to break’ | it down, : | : Mr. Goldsmith. It would take a few days from the time 2 conversation came in until. the transcript came to the ne station? : | |
ao as £34 Boa j jaw 4 mo RA ja 4 15 aa & R48 AM Hg og Bg 2 da ky ga dag a we Mr. White. Yes.. 2 Mr. Goldsmith. Was inn Good pasture the person who brought the transcript to the station? - «> Mr. White. I think x0. The reason I am hesitating is because 1 keep thinking that somebody out of the Soviet 5 Section, I think itvas Herb Manell's wife, who was handling ; it, going back anf forthw.th Tarasoff. . Mr. Goldsmith. Was inn Good Pasture acting in a super- 9 ' visory capacity with regai:'d to the liaison operations? Mr. White. That is very difficult to say. -That is very | difficult to say. She carried with her a lot of invisible. Din pn d ny 12 | authority that devolved upon her because of her operational Ga ; 13 ‘relationship with the Chief of Station, who had absolute te i i confidence in her. She had a marvelous memory. She was 1S meticulous in detail. I think he had every reason to put “| that_kind-of trust in her | 7 | She reported directl: to him. ‘While she may not have 13 been invested with any command authority by virtue of her al position at the station, certainly she was a kind of unofficia 20 | deputy for the purposes o:; the operations that whe was involveg al ‘in. Cc - 14 . For example, we had his old éx-FBI guy on the outside - a | who worked with the Mexiciins with the taps. When Ann.:spoke | cof na said something to him George knew damn nat 22 Gee rm ; well it had the backing 0: the Chief of Station. If he didn't! H . . , . VO OPfaLT .}. 4% RW 48331 DocId:32277217 Page 17 an oh 7 de #3 eo 3
. some E : ; ‘t -W ge gs _ RW 48331 Docld:34277217 Page 18 { 7h ‘respective sections? | ‘the name appeared it was inderlined for indexing. That is. “why we had a room the siz: of the building for a card file. 4 | he could go around and check it out. By and large there wasn't much question in George's mind that when Annie said "The boss wants this", that it came from Win. To that extent she has supervisory responsib..lity. Mr. Goldsmith. It wis more of an unofficial. type respon- sibility? put it that way. Does thit make it clear? Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. .Mx. White. Okay. Mr. Goldsmith.. When the transcripts came in who would -be the first person that chey would be sent to? | | | | i. i t i Mr. White. Yes. Sh: was not in the hierarchy, let me to | | | { | ‘Mr. White. Scott. Mr. Goldsmith. “Then Scott would route them to the \ Mr. White. Yes. They came in in two or three copies, I believe. -She would seni them directly to him and he would underline them for indexing. It did not matter how many times Anyway, the other cooy was then routed around to me and to the various sections ciiefs. i | | } | | | . Mr. Goldsmith. Afte- you people had reviewed these copies the transcripts woild be stored? . —— Mr. White. Yes. | . mo ee DOPparTr 20 |
A Raat has ‘i Mr. Goldsmith. At the Mexico City Station? wre ~ | 7 © 3 Mr. White. Yes. | Mr. Goldsmith. Would the transcripts be sent to headquarters? ba a2 eee en ee Mr. White. When you are talking transcripts, I am ‘talking summaries. We se.dom saw transcripts. When I.say — we, I seldome saw transcr:.pts. Ivknow some of the section 3 | chiefs did.. People working on the Soviet target would call i for transcripts oecasiona:.ly and I have seen them from time to} 10 ! time. But usually they were asked for in order to get the | i | flavor of a total conversition or to attempt to see if there : 12 : was any. substance. to something that the summary had alluded | fe. a ¢e 13 : ‘to. ; | : a | . | te | More often. than not «:hey were then either filed or | 18 destroyed. If they were s:hought.to. bevof: significance: they | “were Sent home to Washing-.on. My feeling is that by and large: we did not clutter up the mails back to Washington with a lot Mr. Goldsmith. Were most of the trasncriptions summarize and stored in Mexico City” Mr. White. The summiries were, yes. Mr. Goldsmith. What about the transcripts? Do you know de ee ee nee ee eg eer about them? \ \ \ . 12 | of the detailed transcrip::ions. } | | | | | i | - Mr. White. No. I would have to defer to each section ae « Ghief on that. et af | | PAR Crear AR NW 48331 Docld: 39277217 Page 19 i BA 3 ae ds age 3
— . : i. Ee in oy w eo principal thing they woul. have to do would be maybe to pick up more often than usual :.f they were interested in a visit 3 | | | that.was signaled in a telephone call. aa Mr. Goldsmith. You ire saying that there wasn't: any | ‘procedure for the persons manning the liaison operation if | “they came across a conversation that. was particularly signifi- | cant, you are saying: there: was not procedure for them immed- iately to contact someone at the station ‘to approse the photo~ 9 : surveillance people of the fact that someone of interest might: i : , be coming? | | 10. | . | 1 | . °My.. White. No, I couldn't say that because that would be| 42 saying more than I know. I don't know that there was or. was | © - 13 | not. I assume there were means of emergency contact but I | id | never got involved in: that:. Ho oo oe 1s | -. Mr. Goldsmith. Did ithe people at the wiretap operation te | even know that there. was « photosurveillance operation? "| Mr. White. Not to the best of my knowledge. Not to. the ; 8 best of my knowledge. They certainly shouldn't have. 15 | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether at the time of the 4 . . 20 | assassination the Mexico city station had a tape recording of | 21 | | { : Oswald's voice? . Mr. White. At the t.me of the assassination? . Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. oo “Me. White. r do not. ae ii Mr. Goldsmith. “You ‘lon't know one way or the other? i my n AW 46331 Docld: 39277217 Page 24 4 ft 4 | wy ~f aA ad CERRET 9-425
“a at Mr. White. I do not. no. I tell you my problem frankly 2 is, and is one that Ihave: always had a problem with, is | 3 | “remembering things ‘inthe sequence that they “dccurred. a a Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know if the station ever had a tape : rn Be recording of Oswald's voice? Mr. White. There wa: a conversation ‘that was picked up °- ~~ I don't. remember which tap it was now, I guess it was the | r 3 joint tap ~~ which referred to Oswald. My recollection is that [ i 9 | it was him talking to the Soviets and trying to make an. 10 appointment with them. i | Mr. Goldsmith. We-w:1l show you those transcripts later a ; on. How long would a tap routinely be retained? | Mr. White. The tape: themselves? 1 -Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. fon nn ee Mr. White. I don't i:now that there was any routine figur lot of pressure. Althougii these things were voice activated 1S because we were always in need of tapes. There was always a: they were running all the time. The machines were running 24 hours a day. So there wa: always a great deal of need for | tapes. f : So as soon as they wore judged to be no longer needed the were erased and put back into the center again. I don't know, wt ere cents eee tm ena eee | hog “ "3 ~ or three weeks maxima, I would aay. By that time cer- tainly one would know whe :her in most cases the conversations | . 2s i were needed or the tapes vere needed to’ back Up the transcripts. | . i i NW 486331 Docld: 39277217 Page 22 fa TR 2 ; PPOET 9 faq |
iof df uy Ag 20 “ooh : . | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall ever listening to tape _ ; - —_ a> 2 recordings of Oswald's voice? i : Mr. White. I do not. Did I ever? Mr. Goldsmith. My. record does not indicate one way or aa a} os | another. 6 | r would like you now to look at CIA Sumber 197,.the | | | ? second paragraph. é | Mr. White. Yes sir. This then is the second call? © Mr. Goldsmith. We w.1l go over the trasncript later~on. a Please don't worry about ‘hat. Mr. White. I was just trying to understand the paragraph 12 7 Mr. Goldsmith. The question I have with regard to the © i3 . second paragraph is does. -his suggest to you that at the time | Ie | of the assassination the ;tation still. had one tape recording | 1s | of Oswald's. voice or what they thought to be Oswald's voice? 1§ ; ‘Mr. White. This one, maybe. | , | a ae i7 I Mr. Goldsmith. You say this one, youare referring to 13 : | the conversation of September 28° ‘6g | Mr. White. This whole thing is 28 September, that is. | 20 | right. | | Mr. Goldsmith. That is right: I should point out for e - 23 { your information that was actually the third call: that has beer . 3) attributed to Oswald. Mr. White. I don't «now what the second call was. a] ra = ' 1 | 4, n fo t | t “Mr. Goldsmith. Ther2 were a total of four calls, at leas i i i H ' 1 NW 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 23 Tf 3 = “qos a) oe ae a oe - eaypeay was ~ Rs ON \
21 ad four calls, at least four calls any way. The questien I have. for you is in regard to the second paragraph. By the way time of the assassination the station still had one tape of hee Oswald's voice? In other words, that particular paragraph | t = that paragraph is phrased does it suggest to you that at the | | | ! | i does not say that all tapes of Oswald's voice have: been erased? ? i ALL the phone calls with Oswald's voice recorded came in 3 | between September 27th ani October lst. $ | Mr. White. At the t:.me of the assassination there was - SO 19 -still one recording with Oswald's voice on it is your question? ! oo 1} Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. , . i 2 i - Mr. White. I couldn t get that out of this paragraph. — 1, could not get. that out of this paragraph. I don't know who wrote that cable. re “Mr. Goldsmith. Ann ';00dpasture. Mr. White. I was going to say it sounds like Annie Goodpasture cable. - I--would.‘not: get that out of that paragraph necessarily. Mr. Goldsmith. Let 31s look at CIA Number 208. Will you ‘read paragraph 4? nD “0 _ ra) O° oO Mr .. White. That is farasoff, -isn't it? ‘Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. Does that suggest to you: that after! the assassination Tarasoff did a voice comparison? L e.2 i] Mr. White. Not necessarily because he was kind of a | ee ees a. | legend in the station beacuse of his -- he had been _distening i i to that tap for so long tnat he had what officers in the NW 463391 DocTa: ahorr217 ‘Page 24 Te ae 3: re 28 a c v os HO : Me
Soviet Branch continually told me was a marvelous gift for for the voices that: he heurd over those lines, or he heard on aa | being able-to analyze the voices. He had a fantastic memory i | | _ those tapes, I should say It would not surprise me at all | | that he could say that from memory. Mr. Goldsmith. Turn:ng now to the photosurveillance operation against the Cuben target, do you know what the scope | of the coverage was in te:ms of time?. How many: hours per day | were they. taking pictures of the Cuban target? "| Mr. White. i don't think I ever knew that. I don't think I ever knew that... “Mr. Goldsmith. How Tiany years did you work in Mexico City? ded DO a ne es te RRR a me | .Mr. White. Four. The usual practice was to start coverage | i | | from the time the consulate target being covered opened until 16 i —_ ! the time it closed. JI am not sure about the camera in the | Cuban Embassy but in the Soviets Embassy that I was more 13 . j | | familiar with -- I | Mr. Goldsmith. Let us talk. about the Cuban first and ° i then we will get to the Russian one. 21 Il : | i Mr. White. I can't inswer the question. I am not even i 2 | . : ® : || sure there was a photo operation against the Cuban Embassy .at 3 . | ad i that time. zs | | —_ a i ‘Mr. Goldsmith. What is your:best recollection when there i 4. HW 48331 Docld:324277217 Page 25 ; j hi Pp BN ¥ ] SY “€ ata ‘ws rad fhe rr He Sig
was a photo operation against. the Cubans? > hf : 1 3 | Mr . White. - That is right, there was one, but I can't 3 | tell you the hours, I am sorry. 4 Mr. Goldsmith. ‘What about with regard. to the Soviet 3 | target? What were the hours of that photo operation? a) | Mr. White. From the time their office opened, which was | | i | | | ? | ‘about 10 o'clock in the mcrning, until it closed. They j | i | | t decision was made before ny arrival down there.and was based 8 varied their closing times from 2 to 4 in the afternoon. | "Mr. Goldsmith. Was there weekend coverage? 10 | Mr. White. Normally not. an | : . Mr. Goldsmith. Why rot? 12 | Mr. White. Because there was no traffic in and out of © 7 13 ‘the Embassy. . ~ is | Mr, Goldsmith. What was the purpose of the phtosurveil- 1s | Lance operation? By that. I mean what targets were you trying 6 | to obtain pictures of? | | i Mr. White. Persons cf operational interest who would 13 | visit the Soviet Embassy seally, regardless of nationality. 19 | ‘Mr. Goldsmith. Is it possible that those individuals «7%, 20 | would visit the Embassy or a weekend? | Mr. White. ‘It “is por sible that they might have. This ‘on a considerable experierce of almost total “inactivity on weekends. So any weekend coverage would have been pretty \ & rer) unempressive I think. Most meetings I think were conducted tT a HAC og #48 SR Pye an NW 48331 Docld:3?277217 Page 26 3 a ¥ 3, 3 #
oy a} da oO» 10 HW 48331 Doold: .sbo77217 Page 27 al ES places around the city. ‘for it to arrive at the s:ation? “three days. It depended 1n the traffic in the Embassy because ‘twice a.week, I am not su-ce. 4 43 #3 4 ; f dg 4 id o ne 4 e ay x ‘ 24a YY 5 24 with individual officers, either at their homes or meeting | | | Mr. - Goldsmith. How :horough was the coverage when the camera was in operation? | ' Mr. White. Allowing for minor outages, as you always | suffer in those mechanical operations, it was pretty thorough | during the working hours. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall how long it took for the | photograph to arrive at the station? In other words, from ! the time the. picture was :aken, how many days would it take Mr. White. -Film, I chink the photographs were processed in the station, I am not sure. I think it was about every when the film was used up then a meeting would be set up. There were also normal roitine pickup‘types which I think were) Mr. Goldsmith. Did chey ever ddopt the practice: of send= ing the film to the station at the end of every working day: to cut down on the delay time? | Mr. White. Iocan't say for sure but it would not surpris me after the assassinatioi if that had been done for a while. ce me re i fg me int a ne ee nee atte mam eine ee nee ee ee mee ioe mene Mr. Goldsmith. But »sefore the assassination? Mr. White. I don't .elieve so.. That could have been ! | arranged at the behest of either the station chief or the el ATT agg t 522 emysy mee adie aa ed SAR Fadl bats Hi
b a Ae) bs wy ia sag EG : : oy of facility section. i “| 1 4 ‘Mr .. Goldsmith. Did -:he Mexico City station ever obtain | : . ] a photograph of Oswald? ‘ . . ae a3 eee ee ee eee -Mr. White. Through shat operation? _ . Mr. Goldsmith. Thro:igh any surveillance operation? Mr. White... Not that I know of. un EISn ea Le SS nro | ' | | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether a woman named | ce . | | | 8 | Charlotte Bustos ever fouid a photograph of Oswald at CIA + | neaaguarters? | . 1¢ : Mr. White. I know Ciarlotte Bustos but I don't know what i] she was in CIA for. She vas -up there and I. was -in-Mexico. H . . . . Mr. Goldsmith. You .1ever heard ‘a story after the assassi nation she waalooking foc a file at headquarters and found a a> 2a ST ea ee operation in Mexico City? Mr. White. I never ieard that story, no. on (vn og «an Mr. Goldsmith. What would be the procedure for contact- ing headquarters with information? In other words, how is information communicated to headquarters? . ; photograph of Oswald that had been taken by the survéillance | | - | | i | | ! | | Mx. White. By cable or by dispatch. | | t | | 29 H 31 Mr. Goldsmith. What would be: the criterion deciding a . 33 whether to send something by cable or dispatch? ae “4 | Mr. Whiate. the normal criterion would be the urgency ee a attached to that informat ion, the perishability of the infor- | se i; Mation, not its importance necessarily. The perishability ic an i . 2 NW 46331" Doold:34277217 Page 28 § fi bo a a is 4 - 5?
RD - was the criterion. Mr. Goldsmith. What do you mean by perishability? 3 | Mr. White. If it was something that concerned an event io 4 | 7 that was going to happen in the next two or three days you did . 5 | not want to use a medium vhich was going to take a week to get. 4 | to Washington. | at Mr. Goldsmith. Then you would end a cable? a ( ' Mr. White. -Sure. 9 Mr. Goldsmith. When did the name Lee Harvey Oswald first’ . e | Mr. White. Obviousl:' during this cable “exchange sometime 12 but I can't give you a da-e. I can't relate it to a particula € 13 i date. Mr. Goldsmith. Was Oswald's contact at the Embassies H | in Mexico City considered to be important? 1§ 16 | Mr. White. At the t:.me it first occurred? awh Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. 13 | Mr. White. I would have to conclude that it wasn't | | i | § | | | | ' | { | | i | ; “| come to your attention? . | ' | ¥ | | t | i i { | i | j | is | recognized as anything ex:raordinary at the time it first | Oy | I ocecurrred. | 20 . a | Mr. Goldsmith. Why jlo you conclude that? | i a _ a2 i Mr, White. Because iad it been, it would have been pulled ‘ - | “7 | out and sent to Washingto1 either with a complete. transcription, a complete excerpt out of the transcription, or the entire tape Pres e rm and transcript would have been sent to Washington by the first! a 2a | na Pa ~ NW 48331- Doctd:32277217 Page 29 TAP P 4 fh Bs x i 43
HW 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 30 yy a4 i B re = 4 AS - da ase” “OD Of information that we wer: directed among others, to get back “worthy of note, let me pu: it that way. Of course, from an: an 27, available pouch, probably by special courier. | Mr. Goldsmith. Does the fact that Mexico:City station | sent to headquarters a cable reporting Oswald's contact suggest that the station considered the contact to be important ' Mr. White. I can't 1:emem-er when that cable was. | . . { Mr. Goldsmith. Let us take a look at that now. Mr. White. If that vas before the assassination or after; Mr .. Goldsmith. Let us take a look ‘at that cable now. Mr. White. All righ’. | Mr. Goldsmith. Please read CIA Number 178.. Mr. White. you are: asking what is the significance of the cable? | - | 7 oe Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. Mr. White. Well, operational, that is all. Her is an | i | i { i | | i 4 | I i ' | ‘American citizen, at leas’. a man who appeared to be an American -citzen, speaking-broken Russian and in contact with the | Embassy. This is of oper.tional interest. This is the kind to Washington because the’ passed htat kidn of thing to the Bureau. Mr. Goldsmith. Were contacts’ by Americans with the Sovie Embassy considered to be inusual? Mr. White. Well, we were 1963 then. They were considere vo i operational point of view we were looking for any way we could 3 ? -_ sane fmm a a ee esterase
‘exploit a contact with. the Soviet Embassy. Cs) | ; | Mr. Goldsmith. Were such contacts by Americans frequent?| dab 7 Mr. White. Not terr:bly frequent. Not terribly freqeunt, “@ ‘| There were members of the american exile colony in Mexico city 5 | who were in kind of reout:ne contact with the Soviets, usually & iF on cultural matters. No, I would say they were relatively ! ? | infrequent. That is why -~- | 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. -- tle cable was. Sent?" | 9 Mr. White. Yes. | 10 "My. Goldsmith. I re: lize that the. cable does not say that VY | -is a photograph of the pe:son mentioned in paragraph 1 but | | t 12 | the cable suggests that this may be a photograph of the person 8 43 : mentioned in paragraph 1? — , | - is | Mr. White. Yes. | . | As) . Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know how'that, photograph was: linked 16 tb..the-person: menticned? : i7 | | Mr. White. By date. It was taken entering the Soviet 14 | Embassy and leaving on the same date this conversation. took | ‘place. I remember that p::oceeding because. we were combing, “ire . 20 | through the takes of that day to determine any person who | - | a co Looked like an American male. I believe this was the only one}. & 7 24 | : Mr. Goldsmith. So the first paragraph indicates there : - "3 | was a telephone conversat..on? | ~ tp “4 Mr. White. Yes. | as Mr. Goldsmith. And sy virtue of that reference to the : 3 | TAM ArARR: (NW 48331 Docld:39277217 Page 31 1 ern ‘\ ¥ ih a a 7 4335
8 wi Vee |. | | . a telephone conversation you would have gone to look for the ~@ . 2 | photograph on October 1st” | | > ! | Mr. White. Yes. . - , 4 | ‘Mr, Goldsmith. Did ‘ou at that time look through the | 3 ! ' photograph take from othe:: days, in other words, before and | 6 | after October lst? | | | | | | 7 | Mr. White. I didn't I couldn't say. | @ : Mr. Goldsmith. Were you involved at all in looking , | $ for this particular photorraph? . | 10 : Mr. White. No. ‘I was involved in looking at it: once:: | nN | that had been isolated. | 1 \ Mr. Goldsmith. You ‘just. said you could recall the pro~ | & - 13 | ..ceeding where there was a search for-this photograph? | | id Mr. White. Yes, I do remember that and of course later | 16 | events made that timé stand out a lot more.” © | 16 _ Mr. Goldsmith. Who vere the people involved in the revies AT of the photograph take, t::ying to find a photograph of Oswald?! Mr. White. Bear in :ind this is the date of 8 October. Ww i { t i¢ |} This was perfectly routin:, nothing to get excited about on | \ : . . ‘ t 20 ! that day... Here is an app.irent American, fine. Now it becomes; 3] H a little bit of an exerci;se, a little bit of a game to see if > 49 | We can match a photograph with that telephone call. That is a "3 : all it was. ! ode i ; i © 24 Mr. Goldsmith. I unierstand. * ag 4 Mr. White. The person. involved would have been the Bet ' NW 486331 Docla: 34277217 Page 32 7 1 e g ‘ E t ry . . | 434 .
s) a3 au as Pe HW 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 33 ay eS epee ereeeecbemens ‘photograph was: selected because on that day that was the SoS DS SST rat 2 oy eae mae - what. time. the telephone conversation was.. But, the time of the were at the Embassy, especially since the conversation did-not/j ot wd Vaan A. | 30 analyst, probably the ana:yst of the Soviet Section of which | ; OF | Herbert Manell's wife was one. | } | | Mr. Goldsmith. Anyone else? . 4 4 Mr. White. I.can't :emember whether Cynthia Houseman was ‘there at that time. I don't think she was there at that time. I don't think she had come: yet. “I know she hadn't. Herb and his wife and one youn: male case officer. . That. would. have! - -been it. Mr. Goldsmith. Is ii: your testimony that you think this only individual who could be identified as an American? Mr. White. Who appeared to be an American. I. don't know] telephone conversation mat’ have had something to do with the ‘eliminating other possible: American appearing pepole on photographs that day. f c(lon't remember whether there were. Mr. Goldsmith. The iiming of the conversation would not have. anything to do reall:' with the time that. persons were - | 1 I | say "I am coming over." Mr. White. No, the conversation did not say he was coming over, so let us scratch that qualification. | Mr. Goldsmith. Will you take a look now at CIA Number 177 which is the headquar‘ers copy of that: cable? I hve one question about that document. I am pointing to where someone | ‘3 ob ys | Ce sf
ioeerempeonrentay etna wo . i : ee * i SE ae i Cal 4g - ia i i i H ? HW 48331 DocId: 32277217 Page 34 j gy | Sg Trp le nem re cr ee ee ‘know, I never dealt with «the Mexico Desk files at headquarters, before the assassination? -it referred to a contact on l October. Aer stood aos . . : 2494 Wawa. 31 wrote in D: 2005-41. Do you know what that means? | Mr. White. That is the file reference. That is where it was.to be filed. Mr. Goldsmith. To which type of file does that refer? Mr. White. That is the, subject file, 200-5 but I don't e “So I don't know how they }roke that down. © | Mr.. Goldsmith. Let us examine some of these transcripts || now. Will you please reai CIA Number 13, which is a tran= ‘script of a conversation chat took place on October 1, 1963. Mr. White. Okay. | i Re Mr. Goldsmith. When was the first time that you saw this transcript, if you have ever seen it before? | | Mr. Whitew!in. I don't know. I really don't know. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall if you saw this transcript. Mr. White. I could ave, I could have but not necessaril If I did it was just part of my routine reading. Some days I east ee eg en ee sn a ta had time to read this stuif, somedays t didin't. oO - | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether this transcript was | the one which prompted th: cable to be sent to headquarters | ‘supporting Oswald's contazt with the soviets?~ a Mr. White. “That first cable we saw was 1 October? : Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. The cable was dated 8 October but | ‘wre em 7 i aot YSlo | ang &
Lan te a i &. 32 € frac. Ce ra a phase Bs Coss. Mr. White. Very likely. \ n> ; Mr. Goldsmith. Now, in this cable the transcriber | \ ; indicates the same person phoned a day or so ago and spoke in broken Russian. Then «he person identified as Oswald says | 3 | "I was here last Saturday at your place." Do you recall whether | upon: reviewing this transcript and checking the photo produc- | i . ‘ . | ? | tion take whether the ind:.viduals: doing that check went back | 8 | as far as the preceding Siturday? | ! | - Mir. White. -s would -have to assume that they did. -As I ‘ 10 said, I don't think there was any photo coverage on the week- | 1 | ends. Have you found pho:o coverage on weekends? Am I wrong | 12 | about that? . | - a (TBE | ee Mr. Goldsmith. — ¥ really can't answer that.. The’ commits is | rules prohibit me from discussing that kind of matter. | | ig ! Now, will you please read CIA Numbers 14 and 15? | 18 Mr. White. Okay. . Wiat is the question? | VW | Mr. Goldsmith. Have you read 15 also? : 13 : Mr. White. No. | 19 } Mr. Goldsmith. That is the transcription. | . 30 | Mr. White. All right. | oe | 21 , Mr. Goldsmith. Have you ever seen that transcript beforei, - { | f . | the transcript from the conversation involving Oswald? | | i Oswald, and the date of it is September 293, 1963. ; \ 73 i Although Oswald is not identified by name it was linked to | . : i . | | . . | Mr. White. I very likely have.. ° oo So : pe my 7 - 7 - _ BS NW 48331 Dota: 38277217 Page 35 Th 2 ae ? if fa ? | 7 7 4357
io) and am re NW 48331 DocId:3 cae Scene PE | SS SL et va 9977217 Page 36 Tf se to Oswald prior to the assassination? context or counterintellic ence context. when they were trying -attention. Undoubtedly ai'ter the assassmination. I would not! Pile Xa ee ¢ Mr. Goldsmith. Do ycu know when this transeript was Linked to Oswald? By that I mean do you know if it was linked Mr. White. I do not know that, no. I wouldn't know it because it wouldn't have I.ad any significance in the station before the assassination «xcept perhaps in an. operational to find out who this guy vas. Mr. Goldsmith. TI have the same question for you in regar to two other transcripts. They appear starting on CIA Number a canteens me fg te etm a a te etree enema teed = eer ewer etme at weet . 16 through the CIA Number 18. Please read them and my — is have you seen them befcre and when were the transcripts linked to Oswald? Fa | Mr. White. All right... You asked the same question? | ‘Mr. Goldsmith. Yes.’ | Mr. White. I don't }now when that first came to my | have formally concerned miself with this in a routine operation. Mr. Goldsmith. ° Do you know at what point your subordinates would have Linked those conversations to Oswald? _Mr. White. At what point they would have linked? Mr. Goldsmith. In other words, prior to the assassination or after the assassination?. f Mr. White. They were very bright’ people. I assume they would have had Oswald at east as one possibility and probably DY \
Ee irae tad te Fe ee. ee ET 34° ES gee ET a eS ct ame the most likely possibili:y as being the speaker to whom | ra Sylvia Duran was referriny in. her conversation with the Sovietre So, probably before the assassination. Mr. Goldsmith. Did :ou have personal knowledge prior to { I { 5 the assassination that Osvald had been to both the Cuban and | . 6 | the Russians Embassies? ? Mr. White. I don't chink so.. Unless I read this conver~| 3 | Sation but, as I said, it would not have registered on me. | | 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Let us take a look at CIA Number 183. H . a 10 i Would you please read tha: cable? . | . ; | me f Mr. White. Yes sir. 12 i ‘Mr. Goldsmith. When would Win Scott have put those | | : | @ 13 ! marginal notations in?. | oe i | Mr. White. As he reid it probably. | | is Mr. Goldsmith. Now, turning to the marginal notation: on — an . ; a the left where it says "sic" and underlines and points to the . | a | word Henry. Do you know vhy Win Scott would have written “sic! al Henry Oswald? 7 - - | | |! 9 Mr. White. If that is what that is. Is it "sic"? | 20 | : Mr. Goldsmith. I do not want to influence you one way oF) | another. We have had tes -imony previously that that is "sic™ ) : 23 Mr. White. Then it aay well be. | | - . a Mr. Goldsmith. The =erm "sic" is commonly used to point aa ; 24 out that there is a error made. | ag Mr. White. It would have had to have been after the : q i H { ‘ : e - i } HW 486331 Docld: 36277217 Page wire & mad shine “U3 eet Toe | “a To a
tad an - | assassination or after it became apparent that the person we _ eG 2 | were all interested in wa:; Lee Harvey Oswald. I say that Gb because it is perfectly logical to me because Win had the | da files right on his. desk everyday for the Oswald investigation. | Gen Mr. Goldsmith.. This is after the assassination? © Mr. White. Yes, after the assassination. He would have - been perusing them continuously. Mr. Goldsmith. Now, this paragraph contains a more © accurate description -- I am pointing to the first paragraph, “== contains a more accura:e description of Oswald, does it oo. —s a Mca ees Eas Sea ae emer not? : 12 | 7 Mr. White. Than wha:? . te. © 13 | Mr. Goldsmith. Than the description contained in .the a “ - cable 8 October from the Mexico City station to headquarters? 1§ ! Mx. White. Because - -hey were not the same guy. This “| was Oswald and the other juy wasn't. | i : , } 17 : Mr. Goldsmith. Once this cable was received was the ! Dae 1a | ceation aware that the person they had réferred to in the first 19 | cable was in all likelihood not Oswald?) : . 7 | ; 20 | . Mr. White. -I think so. I would think so. I have to | | -3Y | repeat again at this point in time this guy was nothing other | @ . 2 than of reoutine coun-eriatelligence interest, you see. 7 oe 74 Mr. Goldsmith. TI understand. Woudl you read paragraph | ; a oo a4 | 7 five? a ; | Mr. White. I did. ds la Moe ad ee eos a B oe NW 48331 DocId:32277217 Page 38 | rasa 440 Pal i & bak ie 8d = pug oat,
73 @ “ RW 48331 poeras de. Page 39 | Top SECRET a | - Ft. would require the knowled je and approval of the DDP. SECRET TOP a) 36 - Mr. Goldsmith. It anks for further information to be | sent to headquarters repo: ting any contact for positive L identification. Do you kr.ow if the Mexico City station ever ‘sent any additional information to headquarters on Oswald? For example, did they eve) indicate to headquarters that Oswald had been to the Cuban Embassy as well as to the Soviet Embassy and that he wante:: a visa? Mr. White. I would lavé to assume that they did. I realize that “assume" is i. bad word. | | | | Mr. Goldsmith. You clon't have personal knowledge one es or another? | 7 Mr. White. ‘No, prio: to the assassination I would not. Mr. Goldsmith. CIA lumber 181 is the headquarters copy of the 1/10 cab le from headquarters to Mexico City which ‘was just reviewed. T note: in the bottom left hand corner tha Thomas Karamessines was releasing officer. Why would someone that high in the organiza::ion be the releasing officer on a cable like this? | | “Mr. White. Can I reid the first page? . Mr. Goldsmith. .Certiinly. Mr. White. The reason would have been -- I don't know what the ground rules at che DDO level were at that time but the reason would have. been in all likelihood that any cable concerning the attention :0 coverage of an American overseas
TOP SECRET = 7 . Mr. Goldsmith. What would be the reason for that? : XN -® , | 9 t. Mr. White. The quest.ion of cra involvement on the - coverage of Americans. Tis was a very goosey matter, even then. As you can see itoinvolved coordination wth the FBI an State and Immigration and so forth. Mr. Goldsmith. That was my next question. Why would | this information have beer. passed along. to these many sensed In other words, why was the dissemination so wide? | , i Mr. White. You woul. have to ask Tomm Karamessines. | 7 | | +I can't answer that quest: on, That depends. on agreements me) | were valid at the time between agencies. I would have no- 12 knowledge of that. Si i 13 | | Mr. Goldsmith. Afte: the Mexico:.City station received | | if |} the cable from headquartei's which gave the background on | 15 | Oswald ana indicated that Oswald had been a’ defector to the | 18 | Soviet Union, to your knowledge did that: in. any way enhance W7 | the importances of Oswald $s contact with the Soviet Embassy? 12 | Mr. White. Oh, yes, sure, it did. ‘The fact that he had 19 | that kind of background. Sure, he became someone of con- | 20 | siderable operational interest. Again, there was nothing | | other than operational in--erest. Ga - 2 “Mr. Goldsmith. In a!.1 likelihood that cable would have | - 33 prompted the people at t=; station to go back and look at the a a | earlier transcript? | . - 2: us Mr. White. Yes, T would think sO. | | HW 48331 pocta:34277017 Page 40 | THe SECRET 7
TOP SECRET = | | | : Mr. Goldsmith. And zlso to look for the photograph? - 2 ! Mr. White. I. would think so. 1 Mr. Goldsmith. Do ycu know whether prior to the assassi : -@ 4 | nation there was any additional action by the Mexico ‘City =” - : station in reference to the Oswald case? . a 6 | Mr, White. Other. then analytical action and probably . 7 reviewing files to determine whether .there was” anything else | “g || ‘that. they might dig out or him and tie to him-as a result of | . those phone calls. I am.rot aware -- I really couldn't say. | 10 | Me, Goldsmith. — If Oswald had been an agent of the co, " would headquarters have nctified you of that? | 12 | Mr. White. -If they t.ad known it they certainly would | © 13 | have. You don't normally expect an agent of the KGB to be . ne 14 | turning up in broad daylicht at the main gate of the Embassy 1S ! or telephoning around towr.. oo: 7 | 16 | Mr. Goldsmith. If Oswald had been an agent of the CIA, . A? | hypothetically now, would the ‘cable. from headquarters have 1a | indicated that to you? | 19 Mr. White. ‘Well, we would like to hope it would have . | . 20 but. it needn't necessarily: have. | | 2 Mr. Goldsmith. They might have let the Mexico City | & we 22 | station just proceed to evaluate and analyze the Oswald case | — 7 3 : without giving them that :nformation? : e 7 2d | Mr. White. That is always a possibility in the intelli- | 7 as gence world. The principal need to know applies pretty widely, | a . | HW 48331 “peeta: 307017 Page “4 TOP SECRET A439
10 SECRET - a 7 39 | you know.. | | Mr. Goldsmith. Afte:- the assassination what was the 3 me scene in Mexico City? By that I mean what was the atmosphere? & , , _ Mr. White. crisis. The effort to run down clues on the . _ ; Oswald thing took priorit:: over anything else. * | Mr. Goldsmith. How nany people were sending cables back ° and forth between the stat:ion and headquarters?» | Mr. White. Well, the Cuban Section was originating | | -eables concerning Cuban involvement. ‘The Soviet Section was | ‘| sending cables concerning the Soviet involvement. Win Scott .° | was sending back: "think" pieces. | | " | Mr. Goldsmith. What is "think" pieces? | a i. . Mr. White. His own. analysis of what probably happened. ® , 8 . . Mr. Goldsmith. Did vou ever see any of those think | - | “ : pieces? | | | | 6 ! Mr. White. I probab..y did. I say this was. happening. | It was typical of the kind of thing that happens. All I am ‘saying is that anybody who had’ a piece of the pie was origi- |- nating traffic on it. They all funneled through Win. | Mr. Goldsmith. The -raffic did not go out simultaneousiy, each section would have o:riginated the cable and eventually - it would have gone to Sco:t, who would send the cable to Washington? Mr. White. That is -tight. Neither can cne assume that the cables went out in th: same sequence that the events with which they dealt occurred. HW 48331 Docta: 34277217 Page 42 TAP SERRET 4
4, e 8 ends. is “fols nn ee seu eee caer cere weet or eee tae terre en omens, tt oneness ane ae at =a. NW 48331 Docta:92277217 Powe 43 TR SECRET | 4M 1 was, for a while anyway. In fact. it. could have been even before, I don't know, as 1 result of this. Washington cable ‘camera. They were ina “Little confined space. I can't ‘TOP SECRET = tw _ Mr. Goldsmith. I uncerstand. To your knowledge was Mr. Scott upset at the failure of the Mexico City station to obtain a photograph of Osvald during his visit to Mexico. City? | Mr. White. Win was z. very flegmatic fellow. He occa- sionally blew his top but normally you didn't know when he was upset by something. fure, I. think we were all concerned that we didn't have any ‘specific identifiable photograph of Oswald. r cannot recall the specific reaction at the time, but I am pretty sure that it would have had to do with our inability to keep the camera going 24 hours a day, seven days | a week. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall if, the coverage was modi— fied after the assassinat..on? Mr. White. I don't vecall that it was but it probably that showed Washington wa; concerned. It seems to me that zhe photographic circumstances were vather bad. There was on: guy and his wife who manned that remember whether they had kids or not, a child. But there is ‘a question, it was partially a question of pressure on then, too. : | | | | | | | | | | | centre erent eens Ste'=AEren mene § ¢ strana, 4
bios Fe pus EX <F Cae as “a3 gonad a. Gar hy 41 | Mr. Goldsmith. ..We could establish by reviewing the transr Ais fols sml OS, RANCE 18 | cript that Oswald visited the Embassies a total of at least four times and possibly a3 many as six times. In fact the TGR das states he may have visitei as many as six times. o ; on | | | | Mr. White. What is [GR? ; | \ Mr. Goldsmith. Insp2ctor General's Report. Do you a .think ‘that it is unusual that Oswald having made six visits | no | I 5 | i to the Embassy would still manage to avoid being photographed?! : In other words ,. the Station went 0 ‘for 6 on Oswald. Mr. White. You: say that the transcript indicates that he! visited the Embassy as maiy as six times? Mr. Goldsmith. _ We san go over the transcript piece by ~~ aD -piece and you would see tiat if you make the. appropriate infer: é. \ | | L ences he went to the Embassy five times. “Bor-example, the cone ; ; . —_’ a | 'Vversation on September 27 between Oswald at the Cuban Embassy | , : | and the Soviet Embassy, h2 says -~ he is clearly at the Soviet Embassy and he indicates “I was there," he clearly at the Cuban Embassy says "I was there," at the Soviet Embassy earlier.. —s rey That is two days. T he‘next day, the 28th, he is calling again from one Embassy to another and he says "T will be right over. T was there earlier and I. am ccming back again." There is three tim 5 & b $ Ss. a os : We have five times in twc days. My recollection is that the @ a4 inspector General's report indicates he was there six times SS 2s 7 although. I don't know whet basis they had. for Saying that. I mn ys penne ee eee 5. we ene
ba an mrt) + £5 NW 48331 DoclId: exes = nope any event if he was there five or six times “~~ my question dering in light of the fa:t he went there five or six times. “yes, it would seem to be :nost unlikely that he could go there ‘Saturday. One of the other visits would have been late in the one onsFriday, you can't :ell by looking at the transcript — . J w roy iB Yes 42 is not directed toward criticism of the Agency -- I am won- . that it is likely that a »vhotograph was taken of him. Mr. White. I think che answer to your first question is five or six times and esc.ipe being photographed if. he did it during 1 normal hours. is| shere anything — in the transcript that would indicate that all tuiese visits were during normal workins hours? | Mr. Goldsmith. . Thre: of the visits wluld. have been on a afternoon,. Friday afternoon, about. four o'clock.. The earlier what time. he had been the-e. Mx. White. Then we sould possibly eliminate four of thos visits,. three on Saturday. and the one at four o'clock if the Consulate was closed. I 10 longer remember what hours the Consulate kept. I do rem:2mber that we were always in light mood saying how. great it vould be to work for the Soviet Embassy because they only seem to work about two hours a day. So that would have l:aft only once or maybe twice when we should have gotten him and didn't. I just don't know. Mr. Goldsmith. Let 1s take a look at CIA No. 197. The reason for showing yo1i this at this time is that this 442 oe warren ncn ene nr ns a toe rr nee eee oe mee crea marae tet arg
ad an A te neg = ie ‘an OLUAE : 43 reports Oswald's contact of 28 September, 1963. Is that correct? Mr, White. Yes. Amn: this is 23 November, This had previously been sent, had it not? tsa Mr. Goldsmith. No. This was the first time that that fa wi cae . spew was being sent. | Mr. White. Really? i 3 | Mr.. Goldsmith. To headquarters. ‘| “Mr. White. What was. the date of that last sable from | 10 | “headquarters that said send. everything? © | - a : Mr. Goldsmith. That was dated October 10 or 11. | CO ie | Mr. White. It wasn':: until the 23rd that this thing wine ~@ 5 : Mr. Goldsmith. That is right. | | | - | i : Mr. White. Wow. Iuim sorry, your question was? | a Mx. Goldsmith. | My only question was. this cable’ reports | | the contact of September °8, 1963. Is that correct? : AT | | Mr. White. ‘Yes. Th.s is the one you asked me about pefdre | . 13 | with respect to paragraph. 2? | : . { | Mr. Goldsmith. That is right. | ~ 0 "In paragraph 2 it maces reference to Oswald's October 1s¢ a contact, is that corréct? | | | | | @: 22 | Mr. White. Yes. | , 7 Mx. Goldsmith. Let is turn to CIA No. 202, which is a @ 74 cable. Would you read pasagraph 6 of that cable. ! 3 25 ; . Mr, White. Do you mind if I read the rest in order to |
get it in context? Mr, Goldsmith. Sure. to ] be Mr. Goldsmith. Parajraph 6 indicates ‘bther than infor-. kag I } I | i ! | { Mr. White. Okay. | | : : mation already sent re Osvald's connection with Soviet and | i , a a | \ Cuban embassies no other .nformation a¥ailable." My question | | . ; is, it. seems that the onl: information sent so far was on the September 28 contact and -:he October i contact, and there were | : | two contacts on September 27.. Do you. know why headquarters | “| | 30 { wasn't told about those o-her contacts at that time? | ae ‘Mr. White. .No, I don't. Somebedy must have simply. | t | 12 overlooked them. I tell you the volume of paper that was being | & 43 | handled by a small number of people just boggles the mind. | iad Win was a very fast reade;: and a couple of other people were. ! i ! \ 15 | But the processing of all this detailed paper was a terrible | i ‘ , , | | 16 _ time-consuming affair. I can only explain it that it must have ” gotten lost in the furor of processing what was deemed to be . | aa higher priority stuff. I was going to say did it not emerge | 1g later that during this corbing of all available materials that/ i ; ; { 20 | they overlooked those two days? i on . | Mr. Goldsmith. Late: on headquarters was apprised of the & . 3 “September 27 contact. Whe sent out this cable? Mr. White.. Herb Mane-ll and it was released by Win Scott. Mr. Goldsmith. Who is the authenticating officer? ed es ar Mr. White. That is GHG. That is Manell. UPSEGRET we ex. NW 48331 | DocTd: 32277217
kee | Mr. HW 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 48 sensitive indicator. from the Soviet Section to2 It would send. them just to the Station Chief for release. | 3 at TOP RERRET H. vas not at all unusual in cases Oo i “Mr. Goldsmith. sat ‘above Manet : 7 ca ‘ Mr. White. Those ar: the initials GHG. It is G. 3 | Gestetner. The same as G.H.G. here. But that Rybat is a 7 yl | : , | s 3 @ ° | that were regarded as seniitive that the originating officer | { Goldsmith. Pleas: look at CIA No. 225, | 3 Me. White. Okay. | | | 9 “Mr. Goldsmith. Did rou write that cable? : id Mrs White. I had to, I am sure. | il | , Mr. Goldsmith. My ‘question is, that cable indicates that a] “Oswald's only known conta :t was the 9-28 contact with the cubah | -@& . iS | Embassy? 7 a | | ae r | Mr.. White. Yes. | 1s Mr. Goldsmith. At tie time you sent that cable were you | 1é aware that: Oswaid had als> visited -the Soviet Embassy? | i7 Mr, White. I was noc. I clearly was not aware. I don' ! ay even know why I wrote that, how I got into the business of ! 1g | “writing the cable. What jay was the 23rd of November? | 20 | Mr. Goldsmith. It was a Saturday. : a Mr. White. That may be why. | eB . 23 - Mre Goldsmith. What do you méan, that may be why? - : S 13 Mr. White.. ‘There was. an outstanding requirement on — aR 74 photos left over from the day before and somebody wasn't in | ; so ; i oo 38 bounce it off of.
BVEURE re Aad uty rts ac . 46 \ Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Are ‘rou, saying on that day you would ced have checked with anyone -hat was available and perhaps the 3 | Soviet people were not around? 4 Mr. White. That is what I am saying. | 5 Mr. Goldsmith. Wouldn't you think on. the 23rd of Novem- ! 6 : ber, the date after the P:-esident had been killed, everyone inl ? the Station would have been around? | 5 | Mr. White. ves. It really doesn't make sense. As I | 9 | recall it was about noon, Mexico time, was it not? | 10} Mr. Goldsmith. When what? ! . Mr. White. When he ‘vas killed. What time of ‘the day? | 39 | I remember I was in the-cir --= | 8 | Mr. Goldsmith. He wis killed at approximately 12:30 : _ | central standard time. I don't know how that relates to Mexichn is! time. — 7 16 | Mr. White. I think we were an hour off. | WV . Mr. Goldsmith. ‘This cable was sent the day after the | 13 : assassination. | | 19 | Mr. “White. The 23ri of November? | . 20 ! Mr. Goldsmith.. Yes. | 1 | Mr.. White. In other words, why didn't I know-what the | a 44 Station knew before this is what you are asking? | | fd 4 | Mr. Goldsmith. Righ:. ! | 2a | Mr. White.. I can't 2xplain it. I can't explain it except se 7 @ither. I had not seen all the traffic -- I assume I should . 48331 voora shor. Page 49 T ( p ‘ : ( RE T - . 4s! |
, G€F See 1 | have before I wrote this. Gaby go. a7 Mr. Goldsmith. Afte+ the assassination did the Mexico i) : city Station conduct an iivestigation into Oswald's activities: while he was in Mexico? as | 5 | Mr. White. Yes, we rad a continuously ongoing search of j files and all possible soirces that we thought would contri- : | bute, | | | 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Who vas ‘connected with the investigation 5 | in Mexico city, the FBI o: the CIA? | ‘ I Mr. White. I had no knowledge of what the FBI was doing, a) me fw] ae ye em camer a een et :. only what the Station was doing. Mr. Goldsmith, Did. -he Station contact its sources? Did >it contact sources o- assets to find out what Oswald's _ . -@ a visits with the Embassy miy have been about? 1s | Mr. White. We certainly contacted any sources that we 1 | thought would have anything to contribute. The funny thing "4 Co. - about this cable is that chere are no signatures on it. I 1a don't inderstand why it does not have any signatures on it. ts | Mr. Goldsmith. Does the cable normally have signatures | on it? ; | Mr. White. Sure. I see, this was the headquarter's 4 co e @ 21 Pe | 7 /_ a4 . Mr. Goldsmith. Ther: is nothing unusual about the cable 4 A me i | Yeo owsetnome om» TOP SECRET. ee W 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 50 : a5 44 a.
Aaj i oi fy He Mr. Goldsmith. When did you first realize that Oswald 48. had been to both embassies ? Do you recall? FY > Se eee ee ee a Mr. White. No, I do not. It must have been soon after this though. ba ‘Mr. White. It would have been someone in his shop who | | . ; Mr. Goldsmith, Did the CIA investigate Sylvia Duran 6 | after the assassination? 7 Mr, White. What~do you mean by investigate Sulvia Duran? | 8 Mr Goldsmith. Did you talk to any of her associates? 7 ? fe you interview. her? 7 0 | Mr. White. I can't 1emember who was in charge of the cubbn " Section at that time. | | 2 Mr. Goldsmith. pava Philipps. | | | | would have done it if it lad been done. I believe she was | | Is ' interviewed. | . 18 Mr. Goldsmith. At one point the CIA headquarters cabled ‘ i | thestation and indicated vhat headquarters did not want to nt 1a Duran arrested by the Mex:.can. Do you. know why that. instruc- 19 | Hon would have been sent to the Station? ! 20 | Mr. White. No, offhind I couldn't say. : | . Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have any reason to believe that | ® 2 Oswald may have been a KGli agent? | | : - 3 : Mr. White. I have no reason to believe. You can always ' . a zs speculate. I don't believe so. If he was he was a very poor _ to | - 3. ann = one the way. he handled hinself. — mesh wes [OP SERRET ; 4g
tog ii Sek Re es DUP Sch Rea 49 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have reason to believe he worked in some.capacity for the “IA? Mr. White. I have n> reason to believe that. ba oy BRD . Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know what the term CI/SIG stands de. | for? & Mr. White. Special ntelligence. i : Mr. Goldsmith. Of the Counterintelligence --- 3 _Mx. White. --- staf. | 9 | a Mr. Goldsmith. What was the work of the CI/SIG unit? ; “10 Mr, White. I don't i:now. ‘They had a couple of ‘special. ! JU units. One of them dealt with very sensitive operations. T he 12 | CI Staff was strictly a p.per-pushing out-it. They had one or| -© i3 ‘two branches or Groups. jIG was one which did engage ‘in actial is ' physical contact operations, agent operations. | | 1s Mr. Goldsmith. Would it have been unusual for CI/SIG | 18 to have been. the group that opened up Oswald's 201 file? | AT | . Mr. White. Initial? | a) Mr. Goldsmith. ves. Se : | ‘9 | Mr. White. I. can't answer that. I don't know what was ! 20 7 usual or unusual for them. The .CI Staff was a highly unusual | S 7 22 Mr. Goldsmith. Wouli it have been standard CIA procedure| - 73 for an Agency employee to have interviewed or debriefed | a 44 Oswald upon his return from the Soviet Union to the United i 25 States? i} : eye | = NW 48331 DocId:32277217 Page 52 Te P oupacy PRET. | 44 |
i | —— 50, Mr. White. It depenis on what was known about him at the time. If he were a security suspect it would have been a3 | unusual. The Bureau wou..d have done it at our behest. The : Bureau would have done it routinely anyway. But if he were a | routine visitor to the Soviet Union we might have done it through i our Overt Division. i Mr. Goldsmith. That is the distinction you would draw. 2na24 (202) S$n-24945 i If Oswald had been a secu::ity suspect of some kind it would 3 a have been the Bureau's joi). If he were a visitor or a business- : 4 : : 9 man, then. CIA may have done it? E ‘Mr. White. Yes, but through one of its overt domestic | : 2 : contacts. | | e : 3 Me, Goldsmith. What is a 201 file? : , 5 é Mr. White. A 201 file is a biographic file that contains 5 1s information about jone pe:son. . | = 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Wouli a 201 file indicate whether or not : a 7a person was an agent, as3;et, source of the CIA? : a Mr. White. Yes, mos = likely. But there were other kinds’ : | ot 201 files. The 201 file would not necessarily deal only - | é 29 with people who were agencs. 3 eee 1 Mr. Goldsmith. What other kinds would there be? | 8 aw 22 Mr. White. Anyone o1,. whom -~- let us say we had liaison f 2 with a German police formation. We would have 201 files f ally + on the principal officers with whom we dealt. All the infor~ * Mation about that individial would go into that 201 file. . i  ALDERSO | REPORTING COMPANY, INC. | USS HW 48331 DocId:32277217 Page 53
Re eS a tn Ba 3 re oe ane ee ee eer ee aun aus @ i | | | | i \ \ t a 1 30 | | a t ' rd = | ii ; q 4 | i i i { 'son for whom the file has been taken out was an asset, agent ‘3 é amb; cuter. 51 Mr. Goldsmith. Are you saying then that the mere fact that 4 201 file exists dozs not necessarily mean that the per- or source of the Agency? Mr. White. Yes, that is what I am saying. Mr. Goldsmith. Wouli a 201 file be opened on someone if he were perceived as a count erintelligence threat? | | _Mr. White. rt could be. Mr. Goldsmith. If. in fact someone were an agent for the CIA would that. automatically be noted..in the 201 file? . Mr. White. Not necessarily. Actually it would be in | { tions file. | Mr. Goldsmith. It is possible that the 201 file would | indicate the Agency relationship but it is also possible that | it would not? - . . : el ‘Mr. White. Yes. It would be:kind of hard if a man wer -It might not have specifics. A 201 file was really a file | an agent for there not tc be some hint in there that he was. i | designed to enable Agency namecheck procedures to be conducted and be accurate but not 1ecessarily reveal to unauthorized members of the Agency th:.t there was an operational relation- , | ship with that person. im I making the distinction clear? | . i Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, I understand. NW 48331 | voorasabo77017 Page 54 T | P iy r if g fF 7 | . HSC :
Gy 3 Ua tay ae [ Cae SCG ae u : 52. | If you wanted to fini out what operations that.a par-_ | on ae ticular agent had been imvolved in how would you go about get-. | ting that information? | . | . & : : Mr. White. The agen: has a cryptonyn. The cryptonyms | | in a case file would ke b-cken down into four parts. The | , first part of which is th: biographic information. That would) - ! be the 201. The second part would be the administrative : 5 “information. The third.part would be operations and the. ! Sok + . fourth part would be prodiction. In part three there would ! | ordinarily be a monthiy progress report or at least a quarterly n Progress report on. that oseration wauld ibe summarized in that. ‘9 Mr. Goldsmith. For 2ach agent there would be an opera- | 3 tional file you. could tura to? eo 7 Mr. white. ‘That is right. | Vs | Mr, Goldsmith. You would not have to know the name of : ; every operation that the agent was involved in in advance wna a go to that particular operatkons file? You could just go to : 13 | ‘the operations file for that’ particular agent and it would | of list the information. | : Mr. White. It should list all the cryptonyms and all the | operations he was involved in. ; | . n Mr. Goldsmith. Are you certain of that. ! © } “ : Mr. White. I am certain that is the way it was meant to | Ne 7 be. I am certain it was not always done that way. | & | 7 Mr. Goldsmith. As 2 matter of routine procedure that is | the way it is done? q } NW 48331. Docta:32277217 . Page 55 Te P KN J g T | HS? pepe
4 33 : | Mr. White. Or was done. | - | 2. Mr. Goldsmith. You jeft in 1976? 1 ux. White. I left operations in ‘70. | | 7 Mr.’ Goldsmith. What did you do between '70 and '76? | Mr. White, I was in training and I was head of the Anti- | | | are terrorist Group. . . 1 on en i mer ne en Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether ‘the Agency ever. con- 3 | siderea recruiting Oswald: | | Mr. White, No, I certain do not. 10 : Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether Oswald had any contac i | wits Agency personnel while he was in the Soviet Union? 2 Mr. White. I do not know that either. | Mr. Goldsmith. Were you ever interviewed by anyone from | ts ) the Inspector General's o1:fice concerning the surveillance operations in Mexico City: | Mr. White. When? Mr. Goldsmith. Dur:.ng 1963. ‘Let me rephrase the ques~ ' | | | i) | tion. Were you ever inte::viewed by anyone from the Inspector | ! } i ig General's office concerning the surveillance operations in 20 Mexico City during the tine that Oswald was there? mf . My, White. Not to the best of my recollection. o 30 22 | Mr. Goldsmith. Have you ever been interviewed by the | — 73 | Inspector General's Offic: in-regard to any matter? - ; | . | _ Mr. White. Oh, yes. Sure, they used to make routine | inspections of Stations and so forth and I am sure I have been\ | ! i i Ve, 1 { ) i ww 40391 pectasdearen Page 56 Tf f g ‘ft RF T . - 456
“§ fi ona a: Pn Mr. Goldsmith. If they had asked you questions about Ee f b 540 Oswald in Mexico City wou..d you have remembered that? a.) Mr, White. Gee, I don't know. That is a kind of funny. > : i question. If they asked 116 questions would I remember? : Mr. Goldsmith. The e-son I ask is that your answer to 6 } my question was "no, not :o the best of my recollection." I guess I am looking for a iore definite answer. 3 | Mr. White. I would .ike to be able to give it to you. 9 | they did interview me .t must be a matter of record. I 104 would rather say I can't ‘temember ‘than make a stab at it and ; iW | give you a. wrong answer b:cause your work must be difficult | 12 enough. without trying to et people to back upon statements | they have already made "“w:ll, it says here in the record." Mr. Goldsmith. Did -ou ever know a CIA officer named i i 1§ | Maurice Bishop? | rg Mr. White. Is that ais real name? WV : | Mr. Goldsmith. I doi't know. ig ; Mr. White. I don't chink. I ever knew anyone under oe that name. | 2) Mr. Goldsmith. - Do y 0 know whether Dave Philipps ever | used that as an operational alias? — a ; | = - 22 Mr. White. I don't «ow if he ever did or not. a a . Mr. Goldsmith. Did pow ever use any Operational aliases? | ur White. Yes. | pos a * ° Ga Aw) fa. 4 , . . | ; Mr. Goldsmith. How nany would you use?
A a NW 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 58 55 - Mr. White. As few a3 possible because you can trip yourself up that way very easily. Mr, Goldsmith. It would be very unusual for a case officer over a period of years le: us say to have used hundreds of operational aliases? | | Mr. White. Hundreds? I would term it most unusual. ‘Mr. Goldsmith. For che reason you stated, it would be tough to remember which oie you used with whom? | Mr. White... Exaétly. Mr, Goldsmith. What is your opinion as to the manner _ain- which the Agency handl:d. the Oswald case prior to the i assassination? Mr. White. Prior to the assassination? Mr. Goldsmith. Yee, Mr. White. From wha: I knew about it I would say they handled it in about the way that was to be expected, gave it about the degree of impor-:ance that it merited. Mr, Goldsmith. Did ieadquarters ever criticize the Agency for not having a piotograph of Oswald? Mr. White. The Stationaa” Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. oo : Mr. White. They may have. That really would have been the spilt milk department wouldn't it? So it would not have made much sense to use th: communications channel for that. I would have expected, if it were a criticism, if it did come
nate» i Ua iad a r i x iia ry _ ass [anh os es 36 as a criticism, to come mcre in a personal letter to Win or during one of his visits to Washington. co) Mr. Goldsmith. Woulc. he have told you about that? ne aa Mr. White. He might have. He might not have. He was . which the ‘Station conduct 2d itself after the assassination? S| | a strange guy. 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall one way or another whether , headqaurters ever did cri-icize the Station? : ' 5 | Mr. White. I don't cemember any criticism for that. . | 3 Mr. Goldsmith. What is your opinion of the manner in | | Mr. White. Everybody was flat out, .I tell ylu. that, doing whatever it was he was doing to ‘take care of his part of the | i affair. ‘Whatever role hai been assigned him to play, every- ae i , mee | body was doing it without any regard to hours of: work or — vA) anything else. That went on for a number of weeks. The * i | i . | recollection that I retain is one of continuously grinding out the same material over ara over again saying it in different | ways. I can honestly sa: that I have never, since leaving. the Mexico city Station, reread any of those files until this mathria I have seen n today. ._ A lot of stuff has >een superimposed on my memory of those events. The principal fict that concerned me was that, yes, we did get transcripts of Oswald's telephone calls and, no, a) } us ‘we did not isolate'a photograph of him and that was a damn. 3 a ND te ‘shame, but I personally can't fault anybody in the Station ee cee te ener eee ene nee ee en ee ee ee ee -—-4— ee Oe nee aeeenenen Ala HW 48331 Docld:32277217 Page 39
as NW 48331. Docld: as A sere  # Eitz 57. | for what he did or didn't do with respect to that investi- | gation. | Mr. Goldsmith. Did you or anyone else at the Station have knowledge of the CIA's anti-Castro. assassination plots? | | Mr. White. No. I can only speak for myself. I don't { , know wnat knowledge other people had, It was not discussed | with me. iy Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. white, I would like to thank iyou | very much for being here today. You ha-e been very patient. .You have been generous with your time. Customarily the com- mittee gives the witness who appears before us at a hearing | ‘the opportunity to make a statement. Although this. is not a hearing if you would like to make a statement at this time, i | feel free. : . | .Mr. White. I don't have any statement I would like to make on the record. - Let me say that I apologize for my fault anne 2} wee ‘memory. I wish it weren't that way but it always has been. It must be frustrating fer you.,. Perhaps I am’ not the first nda memory you have encountered. : Mr. Goldsmith. Thark you. Let me state the entire record | of this deposition will |e transcribéd. You will be given an! verify it. The. court reporter will be requested to certify i | opportunity to review it, will be asked to sign it and to | that the transcript is a complete, accurate and true record | . . of all the testimony given. Mr. “White. So you ra want me down here again? ‘ ora ow oo TOP | SEGRET ae
, $e SoHE Sg | 58 . ‘ i Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, simply to read through the testi- a, 2 | £ 3 your time constraints. ba Mr. White. All xright..— ! i | | mony. We will do whatever. we can to accommodate you in terms ! | | | | t 5 i Mr. Goldsmith. You could waive that if you want to but 7 . 6 . I would want to put it on the record. : | Mr. White. I won't lave any chance to amend anything? \ 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. You von't have an opportunity to amend.. al | 9 | You will have an opportun:.ty to correct. However, if. upon | 10 | reviewing the deposition tou would like to make an additional . ge, "| - statenient I would certain! y. give you. that opportunity. - | mS Mr. White, It might not be a bad idea. Inevitably I am | | . . ' | -@ ott 13. | :going, to be thinking now-ibout what we have been talking about), oo il : : | ous! Bm ds It is possible that there might be some more light along the ie 1g line. | i 16 Mr. Goldsmith. Why <dion't you get in touch with us when ‘Pe ; ; , 17} .transeript.is completed? 19 | (Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m. the taking of the deposition | ; 20 | ‘was concluded. . | : Z wee { - 2.1 we 2 | “4 i | oa ! | ” 25 i
da Oo 16 7 1a 1g 20 21 & . 22 - 73 NW 48331 Docld:30277217 Page 62 | f p 4 E fs B District of Columbia, do hereby certify that I.am notarizing ) i LE y 4 rea, = ef fur Seong: . I have read the foregoing pages 1 through 58, inclusive, which contain a correct transcript of the answers made by me to the | questions therein recorded. Signature is subject to corrections. | . (Deponent's signature_ I, oo a a oo Notary Public in and for th | and witnessing signature ‘or the Deposition of Mr. Alan B. i ‘White‘on this day of __ i Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia an ———- gp ae oe onan Snes eae TN OO ee me em ee
ona A BE dy Te ir. ese 60 — da a} > peje meee me pee re reer meg CERTIFICAT:! OF NOTARY PUBLIC t T, Alfred Joseph LaFrance, the officer before whon the foregoing deposition Was taken,’ do hereby certify that the witness ° whose testimony appears in the foregoing depositio was duly sworn by me; tha: the testimony of said witness was in taken by me in shorthand -:o the best of my ability and there- after reduced to typewrit..ng under my direction, that said _ deposition is a- true reco::d of the testimony given by said witness; that I am neithe- counsel for, related to, nor ee employed. by any of the pacties to the action in which this ‘deposition was taken; and further that I am not a relative or employee 6f -any attorney or counsel employed by the parties LEI Te ES LE a, mat & Cove, TS thereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in, the out- '* 1 come of ‘the action. 14 i Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia My Commission expires November 14, 1980. is ends-  |¢ aS Oo moe n eee Ss oe ee ee AD mp 4 SS eI tr Hed NW 48331 Docla:32277217 Page 63