157-10002-10087] | Date:09/30/93 Page:l JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM IDENTIFICATION FORM AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : SSCIA RECORD NUMBER : 157-10002-10087 RECORDS SERIES : TRANSCRIPTR AGENCY FILE NUMBER : R-352 ORIGINATOR : SSCIA FROM : TO: TITLE : TESTIMONY OF SAMUEL HALPERN DATE : 06/18/75 PAGES : 89 SUBJECTS : CUBA ASSASSINATION CASTRO MAFIA SPECIAL GROUP BISSELL, LANSDALE, EDWARD HARVEY OPERATION MONGOOSE ZOGBEY POISON AMLASH 5412 COMMITTEE ZRRIFLE TASK FORCE W MAHEU, ROBERT DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT CLASSIFICATION : T RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED CURRENT STATUS : P DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/30/93 \ OPENING CRITERIA : [R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED aR 50955 DocTd: 32261927 Page 1
Date:09/30/93 Page:2 JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM IDENTIFICATION FORM COMMENTS : Box 245 Folder 9 ([R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED WW 50955 Bocld: 32761927 Page 2
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 HW 450955 13 14 | 15 | 16 L? 18 19 20 el 22 rae) 24 25 BDocld: 32261927 Page 3 TOP SECRET | 2 The Chairman. The hearing will come to order. I would like to ask Mr. Schwarz if he would give us a brief synopsis of what we intend to question our witness about this morning. Mr. Schwarz. The witness this morning will only be a Single witness. He is Mr. Samuel Halpern. He was in the Far East, and I have now found out he was involved in ftme. ? ing) some alleged killing of an agent in Tailand, which are collateral matters that we may want to take up with him at the end. But he came back here in the fall of 1961 and was in- structed as assistant to get into the Cuban matter. And he will testify that he was told that they would proceed to overthrow the Castro government, and that there were no holds barred. He will then describe the way in/|whch they worked with the Special Group. The Chairman. What was Halpern's |position? Mr. Schwarz. Halpern's position was as Executive Assistant to Harvey. And Harvey, you williremember, was the man that was actually in charge of the Cuban position. The Chairman. When are we going to get Harvey? Mr. Schwarz. He is coming next |Wednesday morning. We are going to get some of this | same conflict between the no~holds~barred testimony, which in his mind I guess he TOP SECRET
Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL HW 450955 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 el 22 25 24 29 TOP SECRET | Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir. ' Mr. Schwarz. Who else was present at that meeting? Mr. Halpern. fA™Mr... Ghose .Zogbey .4 He was my branch chief. | Mr. Schwarz. Is he alive today, or is he dead? Mr. Halpern. He died last year. Mr. Schwarz. Approximately when! in the fall of 1961 did that meeting take place? Mr. Halpern. About the middle of October 1961. Mr. Schwarz. What instructions were you given by Mr. Bissell at tht meeting? Mr. Halpern. Mr. Bissell said he had recently -- and he didn't specificy the date or the time ~~ he had recently been chewed out in the Cabinet Room of! the White House by borh the President and the Attorney General for, as he put it, sitting on his ass and not doing anything about getting rid of Castro and the Castro regime. |His orders to both Mrs: Zogbey| and to me were to plan for Ln operation to accomplish that end. Mr. Schwarz. Was any content put;into the term “get rid of", or was that the term that was used, and only that term? Mr. Halpern. To the best of my recollection, that was it. There was no limitation of any kind. Nothing was for- bidden, and nothing was withheld. And {the objective was to TOP SECRET sg “ Doctda: 32281927 Page 4
Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 Faget Street, S-E., Washington, O.C. 20003 HW 50955 10: il 12 | 13 14 15 16 | 1? 18 | 19 20 el 22 235 24 295 TOP SECRET ! remove Castro and his regime. Mr. Schwarz. And did you talk about tactics at all in that meeting, or was it just a general discussion about getting organized. Mr. Halpern. Just a general discussion as to what we would do, how we would proceed, and what we/would need. And at that point I had no idea how many people were left on the staff in the branch only having been on the job a day or a day and a half. Mr. Schwarz. Shorly after that time did you get put in contact with a general? ! Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir. General Lansdale. Mr. Schwarz. And what was his function when you were introduced to him? Mr. Halpern. Both {Mre-Zogbey,iand I were introduced to him as the new chief of Operations for a government-wide | effort to accomplish the removal of Castro and the Castro regime. This effort was to include not!only CIA but the Department of State and the Department/of Defense. And } General Lansdale was to be the Chief of Operations for that outfit. Mr. Schwarz. And did you brief him about Cuba or did he brief you about the operation, or what was the nature of that? Mr. Halpern. No, we briefed him first in the old Situation Room, what used to called the Ibell Building, which TOP SECRET Docta: 32381927 Page 5
Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL HW 50955 410 Fiest Street, S.£., Washington, 0.C. 20003 10 li 12 13 14 | 15 16 1? 18 19 20 él 22 29 24 £9 Docld: 322781927 TOP SECRET 12 Mr. Halpern. It wasn't a matter|/of General Lansdale's being in charge, or the Attorney General being in charge, nobody objected to General Lansdale reporting to the Attorney General. It was a matter of whether this would be done through the normal chain of command, or whether we would actually be under the General's direct command. Mr. Schwarz. But it still is a chracterization, you were dealing with organization and bureaucracy? Mr. Halpern. That is right. And drafting papers. Mr. Schwarz. Drafting papers to do what? Mr. Halpern. To try to get organized in terms of how we would accomplish the objective. Mr. Schwarz.Did any of those papers that you drafted in those early stages include any reference to assassination as a device to accomplish the objective? sir. | Mr. Halpern. No, Mr. Schwarz. Now, did Mr. Helms enter the picture in the latter part of December 1961? That is correct. Mr. Halpern. Mr. Schwarz. Describe how he came into the picture. MEeeZogbey| described to et, Mr. Halpern. To my knowledge, me a meeting he had been at at the Director's morning staff meeting -~- this is Mr. McCone's morning staff meeting ~-- in which Mr. McCone, almost in terms of a bombshell for the TOP SECRET | Page 6
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 HW 50955 10 11 le 13 | 14 | 15 16 17 18 19 20 el TOP SECRET 13 group at the meeting, stated that Mr. Helms would henceforth be -- the words were, his man on Cuba.|This was something that nobody in the room apparently hadjany inkling of, and particularly Mr.Helms, nor MEET 6 snes A mm . The Chairman. May I ask you to repeat that? I am sorry, I just didn't catch it. Mr. Halpern. At a meeting sometime in December 1961, ij . | which was the morning staff meeting that the Director held, and | Wegbey) was present -- Mr. Schwarz. But you were not? Mr. Halprrn I was not, I got this from the Director, Mr. McCone, announced that Mr. Helms would be his man on Cuba, Mr. Helmg would then!be the Chief of Operatia for the Deputy Director of Plans, and Mr. Bissell was in the | room as the DDP. | Mr. Helms had no inkling of this before the meeting, pRZISaey,, and even and so stated to (ME GPARZSGibys if he had had any inkling before the meeting. Mitamziogbéy. Itold me that he had none whatsoever. Mr. Schwarz. Did Mr. Helms then come and visit your new organization and tell you to make some changes? Mr. Halpern. Yes. He came to MERZ ogibey,' s office and look ed at the list of officers, male and female, who were still working in the branch. Most of them were the remnants of the people from the old Bay of Pigs operation who had not yet been reassigned. TOP SECRET Boclda: 322781927 Page 7
. | g 1 q 3 Z 4 5 6 vi 8 9 10 11 ; 12 2 a @ , 13 a & 3 14 15 16 | 1? 18 | 19 ar 20 ° 8 21 2 22 wi - if 23 . 24 a Lo] 3 25 recall to a female operative. TOP SECRET 30 } | involved in this operation? That was the first reference I Mr. Schwarz. There was no such previous evidence. Mr. Halpern. We had a number of female officers| and still do, in our branches. And there were some in the |Cuban branch and the Cuban task force. Senator Huddleston. What types of activities did they participate in? Mr. Halpern. Oh, recruting of agents, the handling of agents, disseminating reports, preparing propaganda guid- ances, preparing papers for a special group as appropriate, doing the work of any other officer. Senator Huddleston. Can you name one or suggest one that was heavily involved in the assassination attempt? Mr. Halpern. Oh, I don't know of|/any in the assassina- tion attempt per se. Senator Huddleston. You don't know of any? Mr. Halpern. No, sir. Senator Huddleston. Thank you. The Chairman. Senator Mondale? Senator Mondale. I am sorry I cam e in late, Mr. Hal- pern, and missed some of your testimony. As I came in you were saying that orders came from somewhere to get off your ass. Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir. Mr.Bissell told Mr TOP SECRET — HW 50955 DBocld: 322781927 Page 6
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, $.£., Wathington, O.¢. 20003 HW 50955 LO 11 12 16 17 18 19 20 el 22 25 24 20 - cers whose objective would be to plan for the overthrow of TOP SECRET | 37 | the Castro regime. t Mr. Smothers. Was it your understanding that these plans were to extend to assassination? | Mr. Halpern. That word was not jused, sir. But no holds were barred, and we had no Limitation. Mr. Smothers.Let me ask you it another way. What was your understanding of what Mr. Bissell [had been told to do by the President and the Attorney General? Mr. Halpern. To get rid of Castro and the Castro regime on the Island of Cuba. Mr. Smothers. Did Mr. Bissell convey to you the idea that that included killing Castro? Mr. Halpern. The subject never came up per se. Mr. Smothers. What did you come away from that meeting expecting to do? Mr. Halpern. We were very hard put to come upwwith | any real ideas. We didn't know what to ido, frankly. And we went back ~- one thing we both agreed on, bothigegbey and paper which said this was going to be easy or could be done overnight, or could be done with mirrors. The Chairman. Did you come away after your conversation with Mr. Bissell with the idea that he ;had instructed you | to come up with a plan of some kind designed to overthrow, | TOP SECRET | | I, is that we were not going to come up with a piece of Boclda: 322781927 Page 9
Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL HW 50955 410 First Street, S-E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 4 TOP SECRET | ce 1 | later. | 2 The Chairman. I would like to take this and several 5 other questions up with the committee, lone of which deals 4 with the question of the August recess: And I want to fe) confer with you on that, too. 6 | How many more questions do you have? if 7 | Mr. Schwarz. Instead of asking the other questions I will 8 ! ask whether he knows anything about them, and we could bring | 9 | him back later if he does. 16 Do you know anything about een | | oo 12 | | 133 Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir. | 14 Mr. Schwarz. We will bring you back on that. 15 The Chairman. Can we get that done now? 16 Mr. Schwarz. Such AREER was mad 17 | Mr. Halpern. I don't know where it was made, sir, 1g | but I know it was made. | 19 Mr. Schwarz. It was made in the U.s.? 20 Mr. Halpern. As far as I know it was. 21 Mr. Schwarz. And was that done| under your direction? 22 Mr. Halpern. Well, it was done at the Far East Division 23 request,and I was the one who did the negotiating with the 24 Office of Security. 25 Mr. Schwarz. And was the plani‘thae| iZ TOP SECRET Docld: 322819277 Page i0
nw Pnone (Area 262) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL eet, S.E., Wasnuingion, O.C. 20003 = a ° = y 0955 el Le 23 24 29 Bocld ~ TOP SECRET 67 __ Mr. Halpern. The plan was to Mr. Schwarz. What was the plan?, Mr. Halpern. No, sir, that was not the plan at all. H Toes UR cd ata eae ar have (suchBat#faisl:mefccom; use in the propaganda Mr. Schwarz. designed to put Mr. Halpern. And, therefore, Senator Mondale. How was /#Ra6 Mr. Halpern. It wasn't fa fiim. and things like that, just 4p TOP SECRET ho991927 Page ii wiilm? supposed to get to Mr. Schwarz. Who authorized that? | como! The original plan was to usei¢lips.from it in propaganda leaflets, and pamphlets, i Mr. Halpern. ¢ | who was then Division Chief. f
Phone (Ares 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 Feest Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 HW 450955 Cel lL”? 18 | 19 el £2 20 24 295 vo | —-TOP SECRET 6 - Mt. Schwarz. | Do “you know if any higher authority authorized it? Mr. Halpern. Not offhand, no, slir, personally I don't know. Mr. Schwarz. And was it done, or was it turned off? Esa Reine dotumesnweréxtakeh? I mean, the Mr. Halpern. The {pictumenwassstaken, and that was the end of it. . Mr. Schwarz. And Mr. Maheu was used to accomplish it? Mr. Halpern. I have no idea whatsoever. - STR pager Mr. Schwarz. And were ithémedeios: useds | Mr. Halpern. No, they were not. Mr. Schwarz. Why not? Mr. Halpern. We didn't have any proper outlets to get it done. | “Mr. Schwarz. You had [eheMiehlim, but you had no way to distribute it | b Mr. Halpern. sPLIM REIL Checc pS. Mr. Schwarz. | Mr. Halpern. The name is brand new to me, sir. . . Mr. Schwarz. Do you know anything! about th Mr. Halpern. No, sir. Mr. Schwarz, TOP SECRET Docld: 32281927 Page 12
| TOP SECRET | «9 ‘ o Mr. Halpern. That I participated? No, sir. i 4 ! Mr. Schwarz. 1 6 ! | Mr. Halpern. No, sir. I was only in Bangkok, I think, ? | once in my life. 8 |i Mr. Schwarz. That doesn't ring a bell at all? 9 | Mr. Halpern. No, Sir. 10 | Mr. Schwarz. Do you know about any other killings? ll | Mr. Halpern. No, sir. : 12 | The Chairman. Any other questions? ; 13 Senator Schweiker. I just want to say, Mr.Chairman, that | 3 < 14 I would like to compliment the witness for some very clear and | | 15 | impartial answers, instead of the partial amnesia that we have 16 | run into Lately. | L? And I think your kind of candor is very helpful to us Le in this committee to do the job. And I think it was very | - 19 refreshing to hear some clear-cut specific recommendations of i 20 what did or did not happen. 1 Just want to thank you. j 21 | The Chairman. I agree. : A 22 Thank you very much. : 22 If there are no further questions,I think that completes ; 24 the interrogation. : 25 (The witness left the hearing room.) TOP SECRET HW 350955 DBocld: 322781927 Page 13