HW 54756 w w de wn a 8 a ~ GN ' re) : wt 6 _ ™, ' Cc . a / — e 8 Cc . ™ roy rat = 10 S got «x = 19 te = ber c 13 = => = 14 Ln = ws = 13 oO. a fad = 16 = a 17 in ta = 3 - Ww — =~ z= «IS ~ c =. 20 21 cat ae DocId:32263407 Page & i GS-7 and also gained a career status. ' From June of 1964 to about December of 1964, I was at Roseland. This was just prior to moving to Langley, in finance, and my duties there were policing accounts, and included auditing of special accounts. From January of 1965 to about March of 1965, I was at Langley in the -same area, in Einance, policing accounts arid auditing of special accounts, and I was promoted up to GS-9. From April of 1965 to April of 1966, I was at Miami Station in finance, and I was handling the staff payroll. This was preparing and reconciling payrolls. In April of 1966, I resigned from the CIA. Mr. Goldsmith. I take it, from your testimony, that in November of 1963, you were stationed in Tokyo, the Tokyo Station, is that correct? Mr. Wilcott. That is right. Mr. Goldsmith. Drawing your attention to the period immediately after the assassination of President Kennedy, at that time, did you come across any information concerning Lee Harvey Oswald's relationship with the CIA? Mr. Wilcott. Yes, I did. Mr. Goldsmith. And will you tell the Committee what that! relationship was? Mr. Wilcott. Well, it was my understanding that Lee Harvey Oswald was an employee of the agency and was an agent ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. ' i
HW 54756 2N028 (202) S54-2345 c, pn. WASHINGTON , REPORTERS BUTE DING, We, S 300 7H STREET, DoclId: a of the agency. Mr. Wilcott. re dar work. q oe} — — ~~ , Mr. Wilcott. So id assassination. 7 i 12 | Mr. Wilcott. 4 - 1 s “a oo ~ _ —— d —~ more time. ’ b> F us iy Mr. Wilcott. i 32263407 Page 9 Mr. Goldsmith. What do you mean by the term "agent"? That he was a regular employee, receiving a full-time salary for agent work for doing CIA operational Mr. Goldsmith. How did this information concerning Oswald first come to your attention? The first time I heard about Oswald being 9 |c onnected in any way with CIA was the day after the Kennedy Mr. Goldsmith. And how did that come to your attention? Well, I was on day duty for the station. It was a guard-type function at the station, which I worked for overtime. There was a lot of excitement going on at the gation after the Kennedy assassination. Towards the end of my tour of duty, I heard certain things about Oswald somehow being connected with the agency, and I didn't really believe this when I heard it, and I thought it was absurd. Then, as time went on, I began to hear more things in that line. Mr.. Goldsmith. I think we had better go over that one When, exactly, was the very first time that you heard or came across information that Oswald was an agent? I heard references to it the day after ALDERSON SEPSCRTING COMPANY, INC.
H | the assassination. | @ 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. And who made these references to Oswald | 3} being an agent of the CIA? @ 4 ‘Mr. Wilcott. I can't remember the exact persons. There | 2 5 was talk about it going on at the station, and several months ~ i a 4 |, following at the station. g 7 Mr. Goldsmith. How. many people made this reference & 3 | to Oswald being an agent of the CIA? : | | Mr. Wilcott. At least -- there was at least six or - : ire) : seven people, specifically, who said that.they either knew | 2 1] or believed Oswald to be an agent of the. CIA. | 12 ! Mr. Goldsmith. Was Jerry Fox one of the people that @ : 13 made this allegation? | z td | Mr. Wilcott. To the best of my recollection, yes. | : is _ Mr. Goldsmith. And who is gerry Fox? | f° 3 ; z | . Mr. Wilcott. Jerry Fox was a Case Officer for his branch) a | the Soviet: Russia Branch, in the Tokyo Station, who purchased | : | information from the Soviets. | z 17 | Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Wilcott, did I ask you to prepare 5. >| a list of CIA Case Officers working at the Tokyo Station in | ae li9637 I | _ © Pee a Mr. Wilcott. Yes, you did. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you prepare such a list? Mr. Wilcott. Yes, I did. wo ean Mr. Goldsmith. Is that list complete and does it have oe ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. WW 54756 DoclId:32263407 Page 10
HW 54756 2nO2" (202) S5N~2345 p.c, WASUTHGTON , a” wy “ REPORTERS BUELDTN Sw. JON 7TH STREET, DoctlId: } 4 | H every CIA Case Officer who worked in Tokyo in 1963? Mr. Wilcott. Oh, no. It doesn't have every one. It ie 2 3 has every one that I can remember. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you bring that list with you today? Mr. Wilcott. Yes, I did. | l a $ | Mr. Goldsmith. Were any of these people on your list | | ; 7 | possible subjects who made references t6 Oswald being a CIA 3 agent? oe) | Mr. Wilcott. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. Would you read the list to the Committee?) | YM | ' Mr. Wilcott. Yes, , { Mr. Goldsmith. Only of Case Officers. | Me. Chairman ren | Ms. Berning. rothisrk we ought to -state the record ie — that Mr. Sawyer is a member of the Kennedy Subcommittee. ; | “Mr. Preyer. We will. | | : \ t ! | te | Mr. Goldsmith. Upon your memory and the list that your | brought with you today, will you tell the Committee the names | of the CIA Case Officers who you remember working in Tokyo | me in 1963? | 20 | Mr. Wilcott. Yes. There was Glen.Nelson, Japan Branch, ul who had embassy cover. — | | . | . | Jerry Fox, SR Branch, Soviet Russia Branch -- 22h g Mr. Goldsmith. Excuse me, please proceed very slowly. Mr. Wilcott. Jerry Fox, SR Branch; Reid Dennis, Chief wd ta of Soviet Satellite Branch; and Bill Center, China Branch, ty i ALRERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 32263407 Page 11
wm 20024 (202) S5H-234n5 tar i¢ as) p.c, VASUTUCG TON , {> REPORTERS BRULTELDING, W. Ss. oo sa ‘and the people that I was associating with socially. 10 and he also had a cover. . John P. Horton, Political Section; John Ishi, Japan Branch; and Chester Ito, Japan Branch; and Kan Takai, Japan Branch; and Jim Delaney, China Branch; and Bob Rentner, SR Branch -- and there is some question about that, the branch he was with. | | ‘Larry Watanabi, Japan Branch, Senior Case Officer; and Robert Hashima, deep commercial cover agent. There waS a person, Dave, who was a Deputy Chief. Dave ~- I can't remember his last name, Deputy Chief of the | China Branch, and then a person whose.last name was Nakamora, in the Japan Branch. | | | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you remember which of these individuals, if any, made the specific allegation or reference that Oswald | } , } - @ was an agent? ‘ Mr. Wilcott. It has been 15 years, and I can't remember | specifically who said what, but certainly I am sure that Jerry: Fox, for instance, had at least made some mention of it. Mr. Goldsmith. At the time that this allegation first’ came to your attention, did you discuss it with anyone? | Mr. Wilcott. Oh, yes. I discussed it with my friends Mr. Goldsmith. Who were your friends that you discussed this with? Mr. Wilcott. Bob Ojiri, George Breen, Ed Luck, and ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
che wo st 2002" (202) $54-2345 re 6) c, on, WASHTHGTON , REPORTERS BULLDTING, Wl, $ JON 7TH STREET, } re A 4 Nad nh as J to ra nN an Il Pete Martin. Mr. Goldsmith. Who was George Breen? Mr. Wilcott. George Breen was a person in Registry, who was my closest friend while I was in Tokyo. ; Mr. Goldsmith. Was he a CIA employee? .Mr. Wilcott. Yes, he was. Mr. Goldsmith. and would he corroborate your obser- | vation that Oswald was an agent? Mr. Wilcott. I don't know. Mr. Goldsmith. At the time that this allegation first | came to your attention, did you learn the name of Oswald's Case Offficer at. the CIA? Mr. Wilcott. No. Mr. Goldsmith. Were there any othet times during your stay with the CIA at the Tokyo Station that you came across information that Oswald had been a CIA agent? Mx. Wilcott. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. When was that? Mr. Wileott. The specific incident was soon after the | Kennedy assassination, where an agent, a Case Officer -- 1 am sure it was a Case Officer -- came up to my window to draw t money, and he specifically said in the conversation that | ensued, he specifically said, "Well, Jim, the money chat I '.drew the last couple of weeks ago or so was money," either | for the Oswald project or for Oswald.
HW 54756 C. 2002" (202) S5-25945 n, VASHUTNCGTON , REPORTERS BUTLDENG, S.W. STREET, 300 7TU DoclId: 12 | | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you remember the name of this Case 2 | Officer? 1 “Mr. Wilcott. No, I don't. 4 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you remember when specifically ta | this conversation took place? \ : ; | Mr. Wilcott. Not specifically, only generally. Mr. Goldsmith. How many months after the assassination “ot . nero oe was this? ou _ Mr. Wilcott. I think it must have been two or three ~~ 10 | omths after the assassination. ni -Mr. Goldsmith. And do you remember where this conver- ni sation took place? Mr. Wilcott. It was right at my window, my disbursing Mr. Goldsmith. Did you discuss this information with | cage window | ii) anyone? 7 Mr. Wilcott. Oh, yes. 3 Mr. Goldsmith. With whom? nan Mr. Wilcott. Certainly with George Breen, Bob Ojiri, | ale circle of social friends that we had. a Mr. Goldsmith. How do you spell Bob Ojiri's last name? a Mr. Wilcott. O- j-i-r-i (spelling). a | Mr. Schaap. For the record, I have made a list of all | , b of these spellings of the names which have been mentioned, which I will give to the stenographer so that he will have at fy 32263407 Page 14 ALOERSOM REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
4 i i | 13 | them correctly. © | | 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Did this Case Officer tell you what 3 | Oswald's eryptonym was? 4 Mr. Wilcott. Yes, he mentioned the cryptonym specifically = 3 under which the money was drawn. | 5 é Mr. Goldsmith. and what did he téll you the ecryptonym 2 5 | was? | : 3 | Mr. Wilcott. I cannot remember. -e ; 6g | Mr. Goldsmith. What was your response to this revelation : io as to what Oswald's cryptonum was? Did you write it down or S g / do anything? : 2 Mr. Wilcott. No; I think that I looked through my | ia Y J = 13 advance book ~-- and I had a book where the advances on projects 2 td were run, and I leafed through them, and I must have at least a = . leafed through them to see if what he said was true... | = 7 Mr. Goldsmith. And are you saying then that you attempted a a to investigate this allegation? . | : 13 Mr. Wilcott. No, I am not saying that. It was more of . 1¢ || a casual kind of thing, to my way of thinking. | = 1 . — _ < 20 | Mr. Goldsmith... Did you check your cash disbursement ! —- a4 files? | @ PLR Mr. Wilcott. Not the files, no. 23 | Mr. Goldsmith. I am not sure I am following, then, what | r . 24 specifically ycu did check. ! a> Mr. Wilcott. It was a book that I had. At the end of | il ; / ALEERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. “HW 54756 DocId: 32263407 Page 15
AW 54756 2n024 (202) $5"-23n5 nc. VWASUTHG TON , REPORTERS BUTLDING, ou, ) INH FTTH STREET, DoclId: n q de ta oo 32263407 Page 16 | | | | : OSwald was already dead and thad been deafi for two or three jmonths, what purpose would have been served: by checking records that were only 30 days old? 14 the day we would list all of the advances that were made in . an advance book. It was just a three-ring binder, and we would list down the advances by cryptonym and the amounts and then reconcile that with the daily disbursements. Mr. Goldsmith. How long were these records maintained? Mr. Wilcott. -They were maintained on a thirty-day basis, and then they were closed off at the end of the month. Mr. Goldsmith. So, does that mean you were able to check back only thirty days from the time that you were given this information? Mer. Wilcott. Yes, Mr. Goldsmith. I realize this is testimony 15 years |} after the fact. However, if you received this information. two or-three months after the assassination, at a time that Do you follow the question? Mr. Wilcott. No. | Mr. Goldsmith. Well, in other words, if you got the | information three months after the assassination, Oswald had already been dead for three months, is that right? Mr. Wilcott. Yes. “Mr. Goldsmith. Answer "yes" or "no" for the recorder. Mr. Wilcott.. Yes. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
15 no : a r ) \ Mr. Goldsmith. You testified that your records were only kept for thirty days, is that correct? w Mr. Wilcott. Yes. ge Mr. Goldsmith. Then, by checking your records, which = $q oe 1 only went back thirty days, isn't it true that you wouldn't 3 “nave gotten any information concerning Oswald anyway because 2 ; _ : 7 | . = ; | Oswald had already been dead for: one or two months? E | Mr. Wilcott. That is true. : 10 | Mr. Goldsmith. So, then, really, no purpose would have : been served by checking those records? = My ; : Mr. Wilcott. That is right. Mr. Goldsmith.. And did you check any other records? Mr. Wilcott. No. BUTLDING, WASH ' o z a] Mr. Preyer. I understand this might be a good place e 5: = 7. for us to break and go and vote, so that we will take another = | recess for about ten minutes. I am sorry. yt ; : . & 3 | (Whereupon, a recess was taken while the members of 5 3 the Committee went to the floor of the House for a vote.) = 7 ¢ so | Mr. Preyer. The Committee will resume. ~ : 7 our. Colasmith. Mr. Wilcott, you indicated that after receiving this information concerning Oswald's cryptonym, you | went back to check some files, is that correct? Mr. Wilcott. Not really files; it was my book. Mr. Goldsmith. Your book. i) day | Mr. Wilcott. I flipped through it. i - 5 ALSERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 54756 DoclId:32263407 Page i7
7 Mr. Goldsmith. What is the name of the book? | 2 | Mr. Wilcott. It was my Request for Advance Book. 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. And for purposes of clarification, now, | @ 4 : if Oswald was already dead at the time that you went to this | H . : z 5 book, why did you go back to examine the book? | 5 s| Mr. Wilcott. Well, I am sorry -- if Oswald was what? e ‘ Mr. Goldsmith. At the time you went to look at the - S 3 | book, Oswald was already dead, is that correct? | : | Mr. Wilcott. That is right.. : 10 | “Mr. Goldsmith. Why did you go back to look at the | : ti book? 3 | = i2 ~ Mr. Wilcott. Well, the payments that were made especially y 13. : to substations like Oswald's was operated -- it was a sub- = he station of the Tokyo Station, ‘and they had one in Hokkaido, FS | E is | and they had one in Osaka -- and it may be six months or | S i & is even a year after:the’ intial allocation that the final | a 7 | accounting for those funds were submitted, and they would | : * [comer out of revolving funds or out of their own personal | : * | funds in many cases. | = * Mr. Goldsmith. So, is your testimony then that even | as zl though: Oswald was already dead at that time, the book might | Oe , r oe 22 have contained a reference to either Oswald or the Oswald | 22 | project and that that reference would have been to a period | e 24) six months or even a year earlier, is that correct? | nn Mr. Wilcott. That is correct. | / : _— sesnscmer oot . ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. tt HW 54756 DocId: 32263407 Page 16
books retained? | | Mr. Wilcott. They were retained.for approximately one 5 Sj and were destroyed at the time of audit. g 7 | at the time of auditing? > S 8 Mr. Wilcott. Yes. 3 9) Mr. Goldsmith. : 19 | Mr. Wilcott. : i nym was concerned; no, I didn't. AUTELDTNG, rat LW. REPORTERS BUTEDTE rv _ | “ V7 i . i j i ze ts x is nm n = If ~ ¢ CS 4 S 20 | { 47 u fej Ce aes ae Hi : Dn a ee hh 23 - } | t | | . 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Goldsmith. fa he advance books, is that correct? cryptonym, or was it one of the two? PORTING COMPANY, INC. 17. Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Wilcott, how long were these advance | year by the finance office, approximately one to two years, | Mr. Goldsmith. So that they would be routinely destroyed Did you check any of the earlier books? -No, I didn't, as far as the Oswald crypto- So basically, you checked only one of Mr. Wilcott. My current one that I had on my counter. And when you testified earlier that you learned Oswald's cryptonym, by that do you mean that you learned both Oswald's personal cryptonym and his project Mr. Wilcott. Well, it was just a cryptonym, and it could refer to a person, or it could refer to something else, ' and I would have no way of knowing what a cryptonym referred So, when the officer told you -- strike So, when the Case Officer made reference to a cryptonym, | t
i | you didn't know whether the cryptonym referred to Oswald | @ 2 | specifically or to a project in which Oswald had been involved, 3 | is that correct? . - @ 4 Mr. Wilcott. Yes, sir. — | | | : :| Mr. Goldsmith. Mr, Wilcott, assuming that Oswald had 5 6 | been employed. as an agent by the CIA, would there have been g 7 | a reference to that fact in the CIA's cash disbursement files?) Sa) ‘Mr. Wilcott. No. ; 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Why not? : 19 : Mr. Wilcott. Anything they had there would have -- | : 4 sometimes they used as many as two or three different crypto- = 12 nyms and they would have _- it all depended on how far they : © = 3. | wanted to isolate it. from the original source, from the | ; 14 original source as to where the project was run. : a Mr. Goldsmith. But as a matter of routine, would the : 2 Is | CIA cash disbursement files refer to the eryptonym of either 3 4 7 | the person or the project that is receiving funds? | : "| ' Mr. Wilcott. Yes, I am sure. somewhere. , z 1F | Mr. Goldsmith. As a matter of routine, there would be | , 5 ac reference? .Do you believe that there was such a reference aa 7) 1 tO Oswald? | | | r pe 7 Yes, I do,. and I believe there was such a reference. | 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Well, if I understand your correctly, then, you answer now was somewhat different from what you testified earlier. And I will ask the question again, okay? ALDERS ON RESORTING COMPANY. INC, HW 54756 DoclId: 32263407 Page 20
19 | | t | Mr. Wilcott. Yes. | | ® 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Assuming that Oswald was an agent for | 3 | the CIA, would the agency's cash disbursement files have | . | + | referred to either Oswald or to his cryptonym? oo 5 | Mr. Wilcott. Yes. 2 a| | Mr. Goldsmith. And you have had access to the cash 2 7 disbursement files at the Tokyo Station? : “| Mr. Wilcott, Yes, for a limited period. o | Mr. Goldsmith. Were you ever able to check those par- c ' i = °| ticular files? | = Hn Mr. Wilcott. I was able to, but I never did. 3 = | Mr. Goldsmith. So, you never checked the cash disburse- : © 5 13 ment files to see if any reference was made there to Oswald's : | orton is that correct?. . | | S is | Mr. Wilcott. That is right. It was only my personal x il : | * 1S | Eites -- my internal files, prior to the end of the month. a 7 | Mr. Goldsmith. JI understand. 9.8 9 | : 7 _. How long were the Tokyo cash disbursement files or a ; = a records retained? | 3 * -Mr.. Wilcott.: The details approximately two years. We cea ae el accountings, ox we had audits about every two years, @ . pe’ = | and then the files that I kept the requests for advances, : 2 | the details of the accountings that were done usually on a | © 24 | nonthly pasis by the Tokyo Station Branches, would be destroyed | and then they would be -- and, in fact, I helped destroy them. | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 54756 DocId: 32263407 Page 21
20 | Mr. Goldsmith. Are you saying, then, that the cash | d - . @ 4 | disbursement files as a matter of routine would be periodically 3 | estoryed? | @ 4 | Mr. Wilcott. Yes. 7 = 7 Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Do you know whether CIA Headquarters would 5 j have had either copies or originals of the cash disbursement = 's on 5 3 | | - Mr. Wilcott. They would have summaries of some sort. S : | Mr. Goldsmith. Would those summaries be destroyed asa | : 10 matter of routine, to your knowledge? . | : 7 Mr. Wilcott. I really don't know. — | s 12! Mr. Goldsmith. Were you ever able to find any indication) © 13 : in any of the Tokyo Station's records that.Oswald was, in = 7 fact, a CIA. agent? | | nn H = is | Mr. Wilcott. Well, I never really looked. | ° i i 7 Mr. Goldsmith. To your knowledge, would any records at | a 7 [era Headquarters document that Oswald was a CIA agent? — | z a 7 Mr. Wilcott. I believe they would at one time. Whether | : 1 | they are there now or not is hard. to say. . | mo | é = Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have any personal knowledge that | mee ay records at CIA Headquarters were ever destroyed? ! Mr. Wilcott. No. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have any knowledge of any records of the CIA at the Tokyo Station ever being destroyed out of ae te ANs Js ey aes | the ordinary course of business, not as a matter of routine? iho Hi | 1 | 4 ALMERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 54756 Docld: 32263407 Page 22
21 1! Mr. Wilcott. Yes. @ 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. To your personal knowledge, CIA records 3 | in Tokyo were destroyed? Mr. Wilcott. Destroyed or changed. ta = § | ‘Mr. Goldsmith. Could you give an example of that? T i a ¢ Mr. Wilcott.. Yes. Let us say, for instance, that there g "| was a certain project going on, and the project was one that x 2 | became known that this project was being carried out -- ¢ ; $ | and we call it "flaps," -- and the Case Officer in charge : io might get word that ‘somebody from headquarters was coming : 1] | to review the files to investigate the flap. Well, they $ 12 ) would go through the files and take out anything that they Y ) = 13 thought was, say, indicative of how this flap occurred and : 4 | change the files. : is | For instance, in accounting, when we had our audits, ; 1é | for instance, in most of the audits, he would call up some- 4 7 | body -- let's say in China Branch -- and say "I know you : 18 3 were having problems with this, would you like to look it ; 19 || over before the auditors come?", and they might look it over s 290 : and retype the accounting for funds ‘for their project and, | ee you Know, make changes that they might think were in their © ye @ interest to do.. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever actually Xerox records © a6 | being destroyed or changed? Mr. Wilcott. Yes, I did. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 54756 Docld: 32263407 Page 23
22 | | | “y / Mr. Goldsmith. And have you just described one of @ 4 | those instances to us? 3 | Mr. Wilcott. Yes. sy Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Wilcott, after leaving the Tokyo = s | Station, was there any other time when you came across any FE é | information that indicated that Oswald was a CIA agent? | | = | - Mr. Wilcott. In conversation. a : Mr. Goldsmith. Is the answer to that "yes"? | = | ; 3 | Mr. Wilcott. Yes. : 10 | Mr. Goldsmith. When did that occur? | : 1 : Mr. Wilcott. From the time I left I talked at various | s 12 | times, especially at parties and things like that, on social | Y : 13 occasions, with. people at headquarters and with people at my | = d | station, and we would converse about it and I used to say. | = is | things like, "What do you think about Oswald being connected | = 14 i ith the CIA?", and things like that. ; 7 | Mr. Goldsmith.. What was their response? | 2 ta | Mr. Wilcott. The response was, among quote a few people, | Fa - | - 1¢ | "Oh, well, I am sure he was." | = | < 20 | Mr. Goldsmith. What were these people's names? | i ; : ao” Mr. Wilcott. Well, George Breen, again, after we came ‘} ‘ So a d oe back from Tokyo, for instance, Dick Cummings was a person / ‘i ' t ' that I knew before I had gone to Tokyo Station, and I met with him, and I had dinner at his house with his wife and my iw) rR 25: wife. — ) Hy y Hl fy | of if i i BY ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. AW 54756 Docld:32263407 Page 24
23 1 1 Mr. Goldsmith. Just give us their names. Anyone else? e 2 | Mr. Wilcott. Not that I can recall. . | 3 | . Mr. Goldsmith. So, it is your testimony that,: once your | @ 4 | left the Tokyo Station, people, both at headquarters, in = § Langley, and at the Miami Station, made references to Oswald | 7 P | being an agent, is that correct? _ | | S y - Mr. wilcott. Yes, in a speculative manner. S 3 Mr. Goldsmith. How many people have you spoken to that | : 9 said that Oswald was an agent of the CIA, to the best of : id : your. recollection? | | S : ia | Mr. Schaap. Do you mean, how many people who were in, ! s i2 | the CIA or how many people in the general population? | @ : 13 | Mr. Goldsmith. How many people in the CIA? | | 2 1s | Mr. Wilcott. With any degree of certainty, other than | : ‘\s just speculation, I would say, six or seven, with some degre’ | = 16 of certainty. | 4 17 Mr. Goldsmith. be you have a personal opinion as to how | : 18 : or for what purpose the CIA might have handled any projects = 1¢ | that involved Lee Harvey Oswald? | = | . = 20 | Mr. Wilcott. I am sorry? SE : Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have an opinion as to how the : © pees 22 ! CIA might have handled any projects involving Oswald and | | 23 for what purpose they might have used Oswald? | | r 24 Mr. Wilcott. Yes, I have opinions. i] Mr. Goldsmith. What is that opinion? i ALDERSON SEPORTING COMPANY, INC. - AW 54756 Docld: 32263407 Page 25
HW 54756 2n024 (202) S54-23N5 REPORTERS BUTELDING, WASHTNGTON, B.C. We, 3nn 7H STREET, & om, Py ‘ ~ DoclId: nm de in “OO 9) on 32963407 Page 26 eee ee ee ne ee ee Wot to 24 Mr. Wilcott. I believe that Oswald was a double agent, was sent over to the Soviet Union to do intelligence work, that the defection was phoney and it was set up and that I believe that Marina Oswald was an agent that had: been recruited sometime before and was waiting their in Tokyo for Lee Harvey Oswald. Me. Goldsmith. What is the basis for that opinion? — . Mr. Wilcott. The basis for that is discussions that I had with people at the Tokyo Station. Those are discussions with people who gave the indication that there was every cer- tainty that Oswald was an agent of CIA, runout’of Osaka Station, and that he was freed from Russia there in the final. courses in Russia and was trained by CIA people at Atsugi. “Mr. Goldsmith. However, your testimony is that you spoke to only six people as an estimate who indicated that Oswald was a CIA agent -- and when I say six people, I mean six CIA people, is that correct? There were more people than that that believed it, and six people with any degree of certainty that, you know, I felt from what they were saying that they either had some kind of substantial knowledge, or they had talked to somebody , who had some knowledge. Mr. Goldsmith. How many. people from the CIA did you speak to who speculated that Oswald was an agent? ALBDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. é t
| WW 454756 2002" (202) S54-23u5 REPORTERS BUTELDING, WASHINGTON, N.C. Sv. JOO FTTH STREET, DoclId: de ow in oo on i ta 32963407 Page 27 ee ee ee ees een ween ———-— i ‘| a 25 Mr. Wilcott. Dozens, literally dozens. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have any explanation for why none of these people have come forward with this story? Mr. Wilcott. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. What is that explanation? Mr. Wilcott. I have been trying to talk about this thing and other things for the. last ten years. I- found it very, very difficult to talk about these things that I think ought to be talked about, very a@ifficult. I talked to reporters from various papers, and I talked to people in other forms of meetings, and to me it is not surprising at all. | I think, or I am certain, in my own mind, that, if these people were approached that some of these people -- Mr. Goldsmith. Why has it been difficult? Mr. Wilcott. ‘Well, it has been difficult because people don't want to get involved, and people were scared. I was. scared until the Carter Administration. I was really scared to go to the Government and talk about any of these things. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you bring your allegation to the attention of the Warren Commission? | Mr. Wilcott. No, I didn't. ‘Mr. Goldsmith. And what is the reason for that? Mr. Wilcott. I really didn't thin that the Warren Commission was out to really get at the facts, and I am not ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
HW 454756 Std ji ‘is STE 20024" (202) S$$n-2345 Lh} an JAN PTE STRAEL, S.W. REPORTERS AUTLDING, WASHINGTON, DLC, MO / DoclId: nw dm. in ae 32263407 Page 28 | i 4 i a i that would keep me from getting attacked in some way, if 26 saying that they purposely did anything, because I don't know, and maybe they did or maybe they didn't, but certainly, | they didn't impress me as really trying to scrutinize the evidence that there was. And their security that there is in the Government didn't strike me as the kind of security “gomeone wanted to do it. Mr. Goldsmith. . How did you know, in 1963, what type of security precautions the Warren Commission had for con- ducting its investigation? Mr. Wilcott. I don't understand. Mr. Goldsmith. You have indicated that you were not inclined to. go to the Warren Commission because you were con- cerned about their security? Mr. Wilcott. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you have any basis for thinking that their security was poor? | Mr. Wilcott. In 1963, I wasn't think that much about it. Mr. Goldsmith. So, it never really came forward for you to go to the Warren Commission, did it?- oe a | Mr. Wilcott. Not until after I left the agency. Mr. Goldsmith. When was the first time that you alleged | in public that Oswald was a CIA agent. Mr. Wilcott. In 1968. Mr. Goldsmith. So, you first came across this ALMERSON REPCRTING COMPANY, INC.
27 information in November of 1963, is that correct? ~m Mr. Wilcott. That is correct. 3 Mr. Goldsmith. And the first time you alleged in public this allegation was in 1968? da 2 5 Mr. Wilcott. That is correct. 5 4 ho Mr. Goldsmith. Why aia you wait five years? S a 7 Mr. Wilcott. We thought every year, my wife and I ana jo 7 the friends that we had -- we said, "Well, this is one thing | that they aren't going to keep a lid on." And we thought : i0 | every year it was going to be coming out, and especially : : | I didn't think that -- since what I had. heard’ was all hearsay, | 5 12 | thee I would never have seen Oswald or anything like that -- | @ : 13 this is not the kind of thing that would be used for even | 2 t4 | roneentns like the Warren Commission, and ‘they would. have-to- : *s | | nave’ something more substantial than that to go on, aside = . 2 | from the fact that I never would have done it in the CIA, A 17 | being a very risky thing to do with the CIA. | : 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. Is it fair to say that the CIA is an | : «| operant that runs itself on a “need-to-know" basis? | S = Would you tell’ the Committee what the "need-to-know" | cog," | Principle is? | ; : © fe za Mr. Wilcott. It is based on the principle that only | 2 | those persons. who are: involved: in:a project or involvéd in: an @ 2¢ || operation -- and even things that would not seem to be at all in any way secret -- only those people should know about ALDERSCN REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 54756 Docld:32263407 Page 29
HW 54756 | , 28 1 | it and nobody else should know about it, and that was a | 2 | "need-to-know" basis. | 3 | ur. Goldsmith. If the agency, in fact, was run on the 4 ! "need-to-know" basis, how would you account for so many | | a 3 people supposedly knowing that Oswald was an agent? | : 6 Mr. Wilcott. The "need-to-know" principle was not all S 7 | thee we followed, and just about every one of the big projects S 1 nat the agency was involved in, information leaked out, , | we especially within the CIA knew about it, and. someone : w would go to a party and have a little bit too much to drink : aon and. start saying things that they really shouldn't be saying | = 12 to keep in mind what the "need-to-know" principle was. | = 13 Mr. Goldsmith. Why would anyone have shared this par- ; Td ticular information with you? | : Is | Mr. Wilcott. Especially after Kennedy's assassination, | : 1 | there was a great deal of very, very serious discontent with | 4 7 | CIA, and the morale at the station had dropped considerably, | : a and we heard some very, very bitter denunciations of CIA | z is | and the projects that they were undertaking. s se '- Mr. Goldsmith. I am not sure that that is’ responsive. mee | ny would anyone share the information that Oswald was an | ts 22 ; ‘ | . : a ~~ agent with you, Mr. Wilcott? | | Mr. Wilcott. I don't know how to answer that. | 26 | Mr. Schaap. Excuse me. 25 (The witness conferred with his Counsel.) ALDERSON REFORTING COMPANY, INC. DocId: 32263407 Page 30
29 | tw { | @ | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have anything to add in response to that question? ity duty, agents were coming in and out of the station, and in @ Mr. Wilcott. Yes, I was on security duty, and on secur- | . pulled a lot of security duty, three and four nights right in a row, and pulled as much as. 24 hours on weekends,. and an agent would come back from meeting with somebody and he would 2002 (202) SSN-2445 | be waiting for his wife to pick him up or would be waiting Cc, pn. oO for a call from one of the indigenous agents that he was i running and a lot of times conversations would be talked. VASHTHGTON , And I think that is why I probably heard a lot more things | than other people did, for instance, than my wife did, | because of that: situation. . | ce Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Wilcott, when did you leave the — i; agency? REPORTERS BUTLDING, JU, Mr. Wilcott. I left the agency in April of 1966 for the | s ~ Miami Station. oo | Mr. Goldsmith. I am sorry, I didn't hear. Mr. Wilcott. -- to the Miami Station. 1 . ~ = s ca nn — a = #OI¢ ~ c cond foe) Mr. Goldsmith. And were you dismissed by the agency or did you resign? i i Mr. Wilcott. I resigned. | Mr. Goldsmith. To your knowledge, did the CIA ever : conduct an investigation into your allegation that Oswald was an agent? ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Naw §4756 Docld:322763407 Page 31
ten w n> na oo ™t . oO 4 30 Mr. Wilcott. Not that I know of. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever bring your allegation to the attention of anyone in the CIA? Mr, Wilcott. No. Mr. Goldsmith. Can you give the Committee the names of any persons who might corroborate your allegation? Mr. Wilcott. All of the people that we mentioned in the case. | | Mr. Goldsmith. And finally, as I said at the beginning, is it fair to say that you are here voluntarily today? Mr. Wilcott. Yes, it is. Mr. Goldsmith. And you testified without any reservation? Mr. Wilcott. Yes. ~ Mr. Goldsmith. And your testimony has been truthful and candid? Mr. Wilcott. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. I have nothing further, Mr. Chairman. ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.