‘404-t0241-10064 BB F SeGrET ¢ ® Auguet 1965 SUBJECT: Report of Interrogation of 6 August 19658 1. Today's session was from 1000 to 1200 and from 1308 to 1410. As planned, ( started the session by sum- marizing for Subject the resulta of the first six sessions, lieting for him approximately ¢wenty points on which he had failed badly. (Summary list attached.) At first Subject attempted to contest the points as I cited them, for exam- ple, on the variations in the KOBULOY story, and on the lecation of ROZHENKO's office, but when I gave him the facts he did mot challenge them and he listened to most of the litany in silence. I told Sebject that the results of these cessions had confirmed further the previous findings. XI asked him why he continued to cling to his legend, and reminded hima that he had turned down the opportunity effered to big last spring to change his mind while we etill could take..eteps to preserve his operational useful- megs. I said that this opportunity was now past, but that Z% did not cant to conceal from him the fact that he still - hed knowledge and information which .could be useful to us. However, there wag atime limit even te thie. I reminded him that he had been out of circulation for a long time and that many things had happened in the world and especially» im the Soviet Union during this time; for example, KHRU- SECEEV was no longer in power (Subject's comment, as ex- pected, was “Thank God!"). Other changes had taken place. . if Subject did not make up Lie mind to tell the truth, his 490 days could easily turn into 4000, and he would not be of intereat to anyone. I told Subject again, that he had nothing to fear, no matter what he had done in the past, that we would not prosecute him for any past crimes, nO matter how bad. if he were worried sbout reprisal froa Seviet security organs, I told him that we were just ae eepable of keeping his confession secret ag we were of keep<- img secret the fact that we knew he was a provocateur for @ year and ea helf before hie defection. I promised him
14-00000 , BS 4B ee eee 2. that he would be given normal living conditions as sconm ~- as he started to cooperate by telling the real truth. (A complete transcript of this part of the session ig being done for the record.) 2. Ags expected, Subject's only response to all thie } was that he had told the @ruth--with allowances for mis- ; takes on minor points of detail owing to forgetfulness-- and that he would continue to tell nothing but. Be said that despite hia grievances cover his treatment he con- tinued to be willing to serve Amorican Intelligence in any way he could, short of returning to the USSR, of course. Be complained that I denied and contradicted everything Be said, great and small, and said thet he could see by ; many remarks that I had gade that I thought that he had never served in the KGB as a ataff officer but had perhaps been an agent for the KGB. This, he said, was completely excluded, and I should know that it ie snot possibile for the EGR to recruit the gon of a minister as an agent. I replied simpiy that I knew of seversl cases vhere set only children of ministers but even more igportant people had gerved im this capacity. 3. Another interesting remark that Subject made was thet he fully appreciated the fact that hie knowledge was rapidly getting dated. He mentioned that thie applied not. . Only to hia knowledge of the EGB, but also to what he . knew about prominent meabers of the Central Committee of the CPSU. I said that he had not provided snything of interest on this subject, and he replied that there had apt been an opportunity, implying that there was much that he bed to offer in this field. I¢ is pianmned to explore his knowledge on this next week. ‘ 4. Subject complained that we had not checked his etory sufficiently and pointed. out that thousands of boys had etudied in the same schools as he had and that we should be able te get confirmation somewhere. Here he made en intereating remark as follows: ‘Incidentally, when I . first came here I understood from something that Mr. Peter ° . Bagley eaid that you have operational contact with “i He was also im the Baku Kaval Preparatory BERSOL Pita me.” ont. ewe al re tama a at Oe ern? ~ whaee e
14-00000 5. Subject was questioned in sowe detail shout hia duties ss a SCD officer on the big public holidays. Sub- ject's description was generally accurate, and even quite good as long as he kept his answers general. When forced to be more specific he wade a number of mistakes about the procedures involved, such a8 insieting that instructions for the holiday tere isaued by the chief? of the department without the participation of a 9th Directorate officer, about the preparation of the duty and guest lists for passee, which lead me to conclude that he did not stand a@uty there as a KGB officer. He was unable te remember a Gingle delegation that he had been assigned to watch, ai- though he maintained that he had pulled such duty every Fear gince 1957. However, on the basis of his otherwise very good familiarity with Red Square and the procedures ef parades there, I would conclude that he has attended more than one auch event as a guest, or perhaps with his father. aoe ee seme ROE RE AE! ee 6. After the luncheon break, I started to questioa Subject og his first marriage. As before, Subject was unable om unwilling to resesber any of the data that would enable us to pin this story down. He does not remember exactly whem he met Telegina, the date of Telegin‘'s arrest,. the date of the marriage, the location of the ZAGS office ' where the marriage was registered, or evem the year of birth of nis wife (1928 or 1929). Eubject siaply made no effort to anewer these question, and for this reason the questioning proceeded te Subject'a first passport. + retin eee ene camer tt as 7. Asked where and whem he received bie first internal passport, Subject said that he thought it was in Moscow in early 1944 befoge leaving for Leningrad. Reminded that this was a change from hia previous story that he had gottea bis firat passport in Leningrad, Subject replied that he hada‘t remembered it, and thet in any case he also got a pasepert in Leningrad. Asked to describe the purpese of the internal passport gystem;:Subject's answer would embar- rese amy real SCD officer. He ineists that all Soviet citizens over the age of 16, except those on active military service and prisoners, have passports. é & Asked to describe the surroundings of U1 Harodnaya, where be lived from 1956 to hie departure, Subject’s answer commer SEGIET OS APR EES Redes etwennat ‘a TULA ebm A aT et mt ie Re
= ‘ 4. wae in general quite good. As before, he was unable to mame correctly the city rayom im which his remidence was lecated. ®. Asked to describe his eatry into the Naval Pre- pearatory School in Leningrad in 1944, Subject at firat @eve @ vague and unsatisfactory snaver, and when pressed for details he became irriteted and said that his father had arranged it all po blatu. The session was ended on this note. | sSereenaemetr amyerina amen oe Te Ne ema tee Se ents meee HF A Ranma enon Ena e «7 mee anni 4 tem -- cement rer enpore aprors ReneeErRRONeN NRE OEE LE MEG 9 OTE UY ENToreiyte ot ounapANLE
14-00000 &. List of Points Reviewed with Subject on 6 August: { 4. ABIDIAH and other operations (simply a reminder). . 2. Registration in Moscow upon arrival from the Baltic om leave. $3. KOBULOY, YAKHRUSHEY, and the recommendatéen to the HYD. 4. Procedure of issuing visitor's pesses toe the EVD baildings. “8. Umescorted access to the 4th Entry to see EOBULOY. @. Lecetion of ROZHENKO's cffice. The Sth Entry. 7. Anketa a. Doesn't know ite name; ® Filled out im 2 copies; ce. Filled out only the anketa and autoblography; a WPilled out anketa at home; @. Doesn't know the lichsyy listok po uchetu kadroy;: #. Poesluzhnoy Spisok; ‘@ @ Secrecy agreement; ho Sise of the anketa. @. Bow to rum a name check. Mixed up the various archives and was unable to describe correctly how to check a - Beviet citizer or a foreigaer. 9. Doesn't know entry date into MVD. os 4 » SECRET. TUS clint Se iePacnlce B sebr tt she Se Ge I SO a Lie ce ada atl zs) ae ener - . ee SE BA ia
14-00000 é@. 20. Did got take am entrance medical ezag. 11. Seesm't know hig ealary correctly, particularly when they atopped paying for ramk and when they restored Faak pey. —pesennetbiasre ene Lae eDatnseenetnt ai. 12. Bixed up the two General SAVCHEHEO'’s, and doesn't i know about ome of them at ali. i3. Gastronoa. 14. Service im the Baltic: apn Seegnney mW ate R he AE a. Sevetak; b®. Eeilroad to Baltiysk; e. Doeen't know Chief of Intelligence, 4th Baltic Pleet; @. Deega'’t know commanding officer of his ERP: @. Yow says he spent only 4 mosths there; Ate Se PORE RRR FRR ocuryEN eo ow @ Doeen't know elementary geography: Primorakiy Eray instead of Kaliningrad | 16. Doesn't kmow im what directorate he served; FCD or BCD; doesn’t know when or why they were redesignated. ren oe 26. Wife's relatives werg in France. Logical, but doesa’t know why there wan no data on them when ran name check. i7. Enowa the basic structure of the MVD in 1983, but did wot name almost half of the directorates and depart- gente. Dosen't know the functioss of the 4th and Sth Spetsotdelsa, or how the spetsotdels used to be called.' Doesn't know the deputy ministers under KRUGLOY. 38. Soeesemol] : a How a secretary ia elected; b&b. RBegulationsa:; G. Ueme of the Eousoacl Secretary of the EVD; Septem Hs is oneetranemmenenn eo mean e te ne see ee
14-00000 ¢ @ How he registe.ed and deregisatered; e. Age; 2. Memberahip dues; @. Komsomol Congress. 18. Doegn*t know about apecial atamps on HVD passes under BERIYA end KEUGLOV. Couldn't have entered buildiags. 2. Doeen’t know date or even year when EGE caganized. 21. Education: a. The trip to Baku; ® Three year course of study in Raval Prepara- tory School; eee neon Dem Tere nd e. Extension - Correspondence courses at Mining Institute; @ Deesa’t know what subjects taught in Sth, " @¢h, or 10th grades. “Oa ele a seTbatira moe * * - oe con + wesw eacatattaen meats women anne TE ni