wd M80 al a ayy Sy yy <P Classification: _ °°°*** (This form is to be used for material from CiA—controlled documents.) INTERVIEW OF THOMAS CASASIN AUGUST 17, 1978 AMERICAN. EMBASSY By Surell Brady Casasin stated that he retired from the ' Agency in 1973. At the time of the_assassinat in Noveinber, 1963 he was stationed a a Ae 1 of 9 pages extracted Central Intelligence ion of President Kennedy he was working in the area of Soviet operations, but had | He arrived in September, 1962. coal as He stated that in September, 1960 he was assigned| _| Chief. He worked for two years in| Casasin said that during his assignment he had not _infreguent contact with the CIA station He estimated that the contact occurred every two and a half weeks. The contact was made on the outside by telephoning a person with cover. He said he never made written contact with the station. Casasin explained that the function of was operations in support of the Soviet Russia Division of the CIA. He said the ; work consisted of amassing information in support of the SR Division; He served He said his Casasin worked rom to | ief of the Soviet Base Casasin said that his base had extremely limited work with the og: gs RETURN TO CIA Classification: Backvround Use Only OBE ~ Do Net Reproduce | Classified by derivation: SECRET jol¥3-/6aaT7
ae a 4 aT 4 a a a ae | Classification: SECRET pag (This form is to be used for material extracted from ClA—controlled documents.) items of mutual interest. He said the CIA had tried to work with clan- destine units of the military, including the Army (he said the Navy had no clandestine units), but it was the opinion of the CIA that the military had too low a degree of professionalism for the successful operation of clandestine projects. Casasin stated that during this time the military said it was actually running operations, but it was never confirmed by the CIA and they found no evidence of such military operations. military. He said it consisted primarily of briefing the military on f Casasin identified two military intelligence personnel in the area when he was stationed | OSI, and Army head. , Casasin said, however, that the Navy did provide some operational support for his base. It consisted of providing for persons running operations against the Soviets. Casasin said he cannot recall any specific information that the military was using American military personnel in any of its operations He said, however, that there Was. occasional rumors that an American serviceman was trafficking with suspected foreign subversives. He said the individual intelligence agencies would have handled any such cases. He stated that he never heard any concrete information of American contact with the Soviets. Casasin could not recall the name of the Chief 1. | | he believed the man was a_ retired vice admiral and that his last name began with the letter "0." | succeeded that person in 1957. asasin said that most of his communications during that time from went back to headquarters. He explained that the | d [fat that time was tied up with the situation! [ Casasin said that he does not know who had the oversight responsi- bility or authority for the U-2 program. He cited that as an example of how well compartmentalized their work was. He said he never learned who was in charge of the U-2 program out of Japan. He said that he assumed it was some type of paramilitary operation. He said the base ran no paramilitary operations and that most such ts usually did not. Casasin said_he does not recall any discussions concerning the . possible use of the Soviets. He said one reason for no interest in Such usé waS probably that the First pn he Classification: _ S®CREt - ( | Classified by derivation:
Classification: SECRET » OF & pages et (This form is to be used for material extracted - 7 ¢ from ClA—controlled documents.) Chief Directorate of the KGB would suspect| a lot about the KGB and its thinking because they had| He said the CIA at that point knew f were much Casasin explained further that American intelligence interests ¢ Said that was simply not the American way Of conducting intelligence and that that thinking precluded such programs. Casasin said lessening of tensions between the United States and the Soviet Union from such things as the Spirit of Camp David did 2" ss dated 25 November 1963 from Thomas B. Casasin to Walter P. Haltigan on Mr. Lee Harvey Oswald. Casasin says he does remember the memo. I asked him to explain the cover memo dated 12 December 1963 by Robert G. Lamprell to Chiefs of SR and WH re: GPFLOOR-Lee Harvey Oswald. te Ll referred Casasin to CIA Document 435-173-A, which is a memo he died of cancer a few years ago) was one of Casasin’s contacts He said that Lamprell was the Senior Officer in the Soviet Office in Station, and served as the second_in : d. Casasin said that Walter Haltigan (whose real name was was his normal contact He surmised that his memo S was Sent out by Lamprell because Haltigan might not have been available? He does not know the reason for the delay between the date of his memo, 25 November, and the transmission by Lamprell, 12 December. 2  Casasin explained that Lamprell (whose real name was Casasin said he recalls that he wrote the memo spontaneously when he heard a news cast about Oswald after the assassination. He recognized Oswald when he heard the news information that Oswald had lived in Minsk in the Soviet Union and had married a foreigner. He remembered those details from State Department information he had seen Casasin explained the cryptonym REDWOOD as clandestine operations; the Chief of the SR Division was responsible for that project. He explained that was separate from the REDCAP program, which was operati against Soviets outside of the USSR. Casasin explained the relationship of Classification: SECRET i Classified by derivation:
"Classification: __snceer © of 9 Pages (This form is to be used for material extracted 7 ‘ from ClA—controlled documents.) is confident that Oswa Was not working in any type of security faci- lity. I asked Casasin what the reference to the "Harvey Story" in the last line of his memo referred to. He said at first that it must have been some kind of cryptonym he was using at the time. He pondered a while. Fhen he said he would need some kind of prompting of his memory. He said he doubts that it would have been someone's true name. Casasin said he has never been contacted by anybody, including the Warren Commission, about the memo. He said that his interest in Oswald as expressed in the memo was just a lead. He said the fact of no follow-up on that lead was not unusual. He said Oswald's going to the Soviet Union was unusual, but that left him open to the possibility of KGB contact. He therefore spe ce SECRET Classification: = ; | Classified by derivation:
ne Classification: SECRET . 7 of 9 pages (This form is to be used for material extracted from ClA—controlled documents.) ultimately was of only marginal interest to the agency. , i Casasin said it was normal to not make a check for a 201 file on a person like Oswald, meaning that it was not unusual that he did not check for Oswald's 201. He said this was epsecially not unusual Since they had made the decision not to use Oswald. It's possible that a colleague of Casasin's might have checked, but Casasin said he doesn't recall any such check. Casasin said his subordinates in were. Balaban, aman named Richard, last name possibl and who was the liaison with the Technical Supports Divisroén Ti-6 - He said deputies in th for three or four months), (possibly stayed on in the branch and CasaSin bélieve he could be of more héIp in remébering details about the branch; also, Becky Balaban, who is married to Rudolf Balaban. Casasin said that the purpose of a 201 is to indicate that a request had been made for provisional Operational approval. He said the file would indicate operational interest and would then refer one to the specific office with the interest in the individual. He said he doesn't know €hat actual criteria for opening 2011's. He said also that after initial interest was shown in an individual by the opening of a 201, the number might remain with the individual without the persen actually being developed as an asset. Casasin mentioned that agency people were assigned to the military y base at : Casasin referred agin to the “Harvey Story" reference in his memo. He sated that "Whatever I meant by Harvey had nothing to do with him (Oswald) ." I showed Casasin the Personality (201) File Request form from Oswald's 201 file. He said he had never seen it before and did not know there actually existed a 201 file on Oswald. Referring to the source of the form, CI/SIG, Casasin said Ci stood for Counterintelligence. . He said he thought SIG stood for Signal Intelligence, but he was not sure. He said that notation would mean that NSA or the military had picked up Oswald's name in some type of transmission. He asked if Oswald had access to any type of radio transmissions. He said he thought the 201 section of the Registry Office could answer questions about the notations on the form. Referring to the "AG" notation in the Other Identification Ser QT: Classification: ___ SECRET werd | Classified by derivation:
A EE ~ . 8 of 9 pages : SECRET Classification: (This form is to be used for material extracted from ClA—controlled documents.) block on the form, Casasin said he does not know what it stood for. I asked him if he understood why some of the notations were crossed out and new notations had been made; he said he could not explain that. He said-he thought the Permanent Charge notation meant that the file would stay in the Office of Registry and that the file therefore had no _ operational significance. In this file he said he thought it would be routine to open a file on defectors such as Oswald, so it may have had some other office charge because of that. He said [| did not ; . have an interest in the Oswald file. -I asked how he would ‘have come across the State Department commu- nications on Oswald. He said the normal distribution of such State Department information would mean that the dispatches would be circu- lated for information and then routed back to registry where they would be kept on file as Third Agency documents. He said he believes from the dispatches he saw on Oswald that they were in a consecutive series as received from the State Department. He believes from the memo that he must have seen several such dispatches with information about Os- wald. Casasin explained the operational interest various divisions within the agency might have in this way: He said he believes the 201 Personality form in Oswald's file is passive and not operational and sees nothing to indicate operational interest. He said the above scheme means that only the line divisions would carry the operations, and he does not see any indication of such an interest on the form. The fact that only Counterintelligence is indicated on the form seems to preclude any operations. the feeling the Oswald and Marina got their visas to leave the Soviet Union too easily. He expalined the “unusual behavior" of Oswald as being his defection: his reasons. were unknown, he seemed disoriented, he married a Russian. Casasin said that while he does not believe Os- wald was sent back to the United States by the Soviets, he cannot pre- clude that possibility. T asked if the Americans were able to follow Oswald's activities SECRET Casasin talked further about suspicions about Oswald. He expressea Classification: Ob Classified by derivation:
SECRET 9 of 9 pages Classification: (This form is to be used for material extracted 6 from ClA—controlled documents.) while he was living in the Soviet Union. Casasin said he doesn't believ we were able to_monitor him inside the USSR. He said it would have j been too risky I asked if Oswald's threat at the Embassy in Moscow to reveal milit ary secrets to the Soviets wouldn't have made Oswald of more intelligence interest. Casasin said if he had revealed secrets he would have been of interest for security. I asked Casasin if a memo would have existed from the time of the conversation referred to in his 1963 memo about interest in Oswald. § He said he doesn't think so; he said it was not customary to write memos about such leads which were discussed and not followup. He does not remember preparing any such memo. Classification: Classified by derivation: