20024 (202) SSu-2545 n.€, HUH TON, VAs REPORTERS BUTEDTNG, Sw. JOH PU STREET, DoclId: 322763409 «2 da in ™i oO H i i ‘ Page 2299 CONFIDENTIAL 219 don't want any misinterpretation. . Mr. Goldsmith. Neither do I. Mr. Rocca, This is an NSA case. A defector, a Soviet agent, has committed suicide and subsequently it was determined that by finding the materials in his house he had actually stashed away a large number of reports coming from the DDP, and indeed coming from Soviet defectors that had provided the material. That case, and the handling of the relations with NSA on Dunlap, was a matter handled by SIG and by Ops jointly, They worked together on that. It illustrates, therefore, . in another area the community wide aspect to security and security problems, on the assumption that against the KGB | you've got to work together in cases involving security and penetration or you are going to be had separately. | This concept is, I think, very definitely an authorization for the opening by SIG of the file in these circumstances. And indeed, I would saythat to test it, one should look at whether or not files were opened on the other names in the State Department list. If you find that that is the case -- and it is my | belief that that is the case, although I have no way of proving it because it has never actually ever been put to the point where it was necessary to do this as a test -- I think that the question you are getting at is answered. | CONFPIDENTIARSB ALOSERSCM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
to de wet a 54 ~ a } i ” e 4 w Ww } ! ~ i ~N . i| = 7 if ~ if Vy = i e ~ oy = Hl ™ \ 1 * at Fond i : te il = ~ ou = u & i = oor 4 at che _ 4 x i = 14 A ba |} = re il S aaa : tt = it = i = T4 it tae us 4 we Mt =~ ut — Hy = ‘~~ : iv} y = a 2 304 = a“ ‘7 - j 4 = va i = eB & i wn | = is i = ry ~ ; i ¢ i e 29 | o “av } ari: pot awe . I LA : rhs : & = po tt YAS 42 4 eo — ™~ | a= | 3 4 tt H i iy 4} a=; , | i Docld: 32263409 Page 2235 220 CONFIDENTIAL It is a formal part of their responsibility. Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. turning to CIA number 788, again I would like to direct your attention to the box that is labeled "other identification." In that box there is a number one, next to which someone wrote in the letters "AG." Do you know what those letters would stand for? Mr. Rocca. I do not. | Mr. Goldsmith. At the bottom of the page, at the bottom of this document, it indicates that Oswald's file is a restricted file. | Do you know why the file would have been restricted? Mr. Rocca. My impression would be that this would have been restricted in order to assure knowledge in SIG in this as one of a category of files involving American defectors, that they would want to know about in the event that anyone else developed information or expressed an interest of any kind. For example, the Lee Harvey Oswald file was restricted when it was taken over by R & A, when it was given to me. Mr. Goldsmith. So that, if anyone -- Mr. Rocca. So that, if anyone came in and checked that file -- | Mr. Goldsmith. You would know about it. Mr. Rocca. -- I would know immediately who he was. CONTIODENTIAL PORTING COMPANY, INC. i t i | i i i i
a = “ 4 ~ 4 > ws - - = & a ~ ~N t wo a wt ~ ~ ™ o ~ j N ! ~ S ry cS - = ™N . 3 tS 7 ~ a > ra = iy a al es = - = w) “x = os te cS = _ 14 a iJ - = Ta i on ~s pe al re a tow ° ~ o ~ : = 6 = “ if « ~ = : an 2 “= 13 & vi = t ~ < ° 4 Ce) 20 fT =! oe Dale [cs ae wes 22 LAR ~ 43 ow 44 ao as ~~ Docld:32263409 Paye 224 CONFIDENTIAL I would be asked, "Can this person look at the file, " and obviously I would permit that. So, in other words, it is a subsidiary form of control which permits some kind of internal order in the processing of the material. (Pause) Mr. Goldsmith. Would you please examine CIA number 943, which is a Xerox copy of three file cards. Please confine your attention simply to the top two file cards, both of which pertain to Lee Harvey Oswald. (Pause) Mr. Goldsmith. Have you had a chance to review this document? Mr. Rocca. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. Turning your attention to the top card, which as I indicated refers to Lee Harvey Oswald, in the upper right hand corner of that card there is an indication which says 'TI Project/RE, 9 November, 1959." Do you know what "CI Project/RE" refers to? Mr. Rocca. The CI Project refers to -- I don't know what the RE is at this point, but I may figure it out by the time I finish talking, answering the first part of the question -- CI Project is simply a name of convenience which was used to describe the HTLINGUAL or HDLINGUAL, or whatever it was. But the RE may be a name or initials of CON PIODENTIAL ALDERSON FEPORTING COMPANY. INC. 221
CONPIDENTIAL 222 people. I can't associate that. » re) ~ This is the first time I have seen these cards, as far as I know. fe Mr. Goldsmith. But the term "CI Project" to the eo | x | best of your knowledge refers to the HDLINGUAL program? _ “i Mr. Rocca. To the mail intercept program, ard ~ { : ! S 5 | < | that was the convenient form, that was the phrase that Mr. 2 3 | = | O'Neill used when he talked about it. goo 4 . . | - i Mr. Goldsmith. So, this suggests that Oswald may have: < i ur ~ ora | . é ~ been the subject of this mail intercept program or one of the: g i , = ily = | subjects. a “1 { = - 3 ' e * i Mr. Rocca. It suggests that there was something = i 7 — 14 Hi t @ = , in it that was actually accessioned, or that they were given | Bow 4 L | this as a warning to be on the alert for it in their screening ¢ of the materials. I cannot determine that from this. = 1g | = | In other words, it may have been a watch list card that flowed a oq7 | ! a naturally out of the opening. S18 i | | Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. = OIF | - (Pause) . = 20 | | | Mr. Rocca. Ah -- RE means Rueben Efron. ay il BRS Mr. Goldsmith. Would you spell that for the record. @ Mr. Rocca. This is my guess, now, as I say. a9 | R-U-E-B-E-N E-F-R-O-N. 24 } And he was a translator on the project. Mr. Goldsmith. So that suggests that there was a mail. CONFIDENTIAL : RLDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld:32263409 Page 225 ALDERSO! s
20024 (202) S$54-2445 pb.c, SHYTHOTON, HAS S.V. REPORTERS BUTEDTHG, 300 7TH STRELT, DoclId: 32263409 CONFIDENTIAL 223 intercept that -- Ww Mr. Rocca. No. It suggests only that there was a warning that there should be an alert for it. ive Mr. Goldsmith. To him? in i - Mr. Rocca. Well, to whomever was using S| that watch list because it would be used by people surveying | J 4 a the materials. | i | a You can readily answer your own question by just | 3 | going through the materials and spotting them, as far as | ‘ 10 : the contents are concerned. | uM Mr. Goldsmith. I would like you to review a document | ie marked CIA number 2035. This is a document dated 20 February, 3 1964, and it's a memo to you, Chief of the CI/R & A unit. | ny (Pause) Is : Mr. Rocca. Who gave it to me? : is | Mr. Goldsmith. Have you had a chance to read this ! v document? | 8 | Mr. Rocca. Yes, yes. | 13 ‘The machine's listing of documents officially | 20 | recorded as being -- was requested and is attached. The | ul actual -- of this type was begun in '63. A few oitems of 2 a | previous dates were also recorded. A comparison of the | 23 documents physically available and the 201 file, and those : reports as being as shown -- 37 documents that should be in the 201 file are not available.’ This total is made up CONFIDENTIAL ; ALDERSON REPCATING COMPANY, INC. Page 2276 Notes ees
nN ta wt = 5 nN . I H ~ . wn fos | = j = = - = 7 | ~ | KR 3 | < ~ i wt 3 | 23 | Ps ~ id! — ay SS H : if g i = ofiy = i “2 iy > yn ~ ih i tc | = . | - 13 | = it = i = if = tg ij eee = Ht b it = is | S i ay H m= Is | t ~ i - i Sad 1 pa | “ \ ~ ne c ; 5 20 | | i . 21 | ANE | ag 72! nats 1 ee aa i os : t 2 | i i 4 a7 ‘4 i i Docld:32763409 Page 227 for me, which I handled through him. CONFIDENTIAL 224 of two dispatches, seven memorandum from the FBI, one CSCI, two State Department documents, and 25 cables." | | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you remember receiving this memorandum? | Mr. Rocca. No. But it's not of any particular import. These materials had been simply displaced for separate handling on the 201, and I judge that this was something that Mr. Hartman prepared or had prepared Mr. Goldsmith. The memo doesn't have a signature attached to it. Mr. Rocca. Well, it has to be written by someone who knows, who has access to the material. He and the RID people are those ones. ; | Mr. Goldsmith. Is it customary for those memos not to contain signatures of the authors of the memos? Mr. Rocca. It depends on how rapidly they are written { This I think is his signature, is his writing (indicating.) | | Mr. Goldsmith. By that you are referring to the. script notation? Mr. Rocca. Yes. | Mr. Goldsmith. Now why do you say that this is of no particular import? Mr. Rocca. Because we know that there are two dispatches. We know that there are seven memoranda which CONPIDENTIAL ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
1 CONFIDENTIAL 225 | i } H were being probably read by Mr. Dooley and therefore were not Ww | | in the file. We know that there is a CSCI and therefore tes all of these are accountable pieces of paper. In other words, they haven't disappeared. The 25 cables were probably = | in the materials that went back to the GP Floor period, & $ | Mr. Goldsmith. Well, how do we know, in fact, that | 5 7 | the materials have not disappeared? : : a Mr. Rocca. Well, I would say that we know that by a simply going back and looking at the file at the present time, z io to begin with. This was not, in other words, an attempt to | : trace materials that had disappeared from the file. ; i Mr. Goldsmith. Now this document makes reference to | an attachment of the missing -- RUTLBING, ey Mr. Rocca. It says that they should be in the 201 2 but they are not in it. But that doesn't mean that they are REVORTCRS us not present. SM, « ~s| attachment which contains a list, a more detailed list, of the “a | | - Mr. Goldsmith. The document makes reference to an | | specific documents that are not in the file. The committee ; ‘ 1 i - = = = = al n mB = < = coed staff has been unable to locate that attachment in the Oswald: 201 file. What would be the best way to determine whether, in fact, the documents that were unavailable on this date had, in fact, been returned to the file? Mr. Rocca. Ask Mr. Hartman.to do it and he will | CONPIDENTIALS AERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32263409 Pajye 228 mom
CONFIDENTIAL 226 give you the answer to it. I obviously asked for this, and iy as I say, my recollection is I would have asked him for it | pursuant to an attempt to get a grasp over exactly what in should have been -- what should be in the file when we ta da machined it. Mr. Goldsmith. If the document is of no particular a | import’at all, why is it marked "Secret, Eyes Only?" Qa re 6) 2002" (202) S$54-2345 Mr. Rocca. Everything is marked "Secret, Eyes Only." 9) Mr. Goldsmith. When you say “everything,” you -- nec, TON, Mr. Rocca. This is an occupational disease. So HAS HTC that does not give me great trauma. ! uy Mr. Goldsmith. Are you suggesting that the documents: i in the Oswald file commonly contain the sensitivity indicator 0 dy ae h known as "Secret, Eyes Only?" Mr. Rocca. Well, most of them do, I would say. REPORTERS BUTEDING, Or, a good number of them do. I think the point is academic. ! i SV. I mean, the classification was one applied by a secretary, whoever typed the memo. In,other words, these papers are not -- this is not a. i t list of papers that have been removed from the file permanently. ' And, I don't recall the circumstances under which at this 3N0 7TH STREET, nw ~ a oe ) time this request was made. But I think the person who worked > 1) on it is a person who probably could shed some light on it. Mr. Goldsmith. I should indicate for the record that the staff's review of the Oswald file has uncovered extremely | CONFIDENTIAL pocld: 32263409 Paige 299 ALEERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
CONFIDENTIAL 227 few documents with the specific notation "Secrety, Eyes only," which is one of the reasons that we focused on this particular Ce | | | | memo, as it suggests that. there are materials that are not | in the file, which should be, and particularly because the | | | : sy attachment referred to «is not available in the file itself. — 3 8 | (Pause) ! 5 7 Mr. Rocca. Where do you find the reference to the = 4 | E - attachment? This is what I can't find. 2 S : "Tt is attached,"is that it? = 10 | Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, in the first sentence. S i = (Pause) | Oe : 7 . ay Mr. Rocca. Well, as I have stated, I have no : 6 : Is recollection of the episode. My best recollection on the : a basis of the handling of the time was that this was an : ue effort to make sure that we had everything together. We : is | requested this kind of review. This answer came back. I | = i “ 7 have no way of explaining why it was "Secret, Eyes Only." : : i I don't regard it necessarily as of any great significance, | = aa per se. The person who did it would have to explain it. 5 = But I am certain that the next step that I would take see would have been to say to get these items into the file.” Mr. Goldsmith. Of course, we don't know which items | specifically they are. | Mr. Rocca. Well, I mean -~ two dispatches, seven memoranda from the FBI, one CSCI -- I mean, the file at this: CONFIDENTIAL Leese At TING COMPANY, INC. Docld:322763409 Page 230 ALSERSIN REPORTING COMPANY, INC
228 CONFIDENTIAL stage, this is February, 1964, the machine file was in the process of being accumulated. The file itself was in no vy Ces) . use. We were right at the beginning, in other words, of assembling the machine record which eventually we:would show ! | = ~ | and did show to the Warren Commission later on that year. t i = | \ v3) , | ” é | In other words, I would characterize this document as an | ~ { ' = 7 £ 7 | interim summary, a status report, on the attempt to create = “ the final mechanized record of the file. I in no way would | Pa 34 . ; ; | = i attribute to this language the fact that these actual materials. oe | z= ‘S| wére missing. : ' Mr. Goldsmith. You have indicated that the handwriting . ‘4 | in the lower lefthand corner of the page is Mr. Hartman's. | = i oe he 1 Ai i Y 2% t Mr. Rocca. That would be my guess. | | a + Mr. Goldsmith. Would you read for the record what | x 4 i = os | S ane that script writing indicates. Zo, | . Z s | Mr. Rocca. "Please keep loosely in the last volume = | . : rn ‘ . “ | of Oswald's 201" and it's scratched out. It is X'd out.. = . I don't know what this is (indicating. ) ” E aa Mr. Goldsmith. I can't make that handwriting out Sag | . | ° ' either. : ene Mr. Rocca. Well, if it isn't Mr. Hartman's handwriting, @ “Nhe could help identify it. That's the point. | . 52 | | Mr. Goldsmith... Would there be any reason to keep | this document in the last volume of Oswald's 201? ko an | Mr. Rocca. Well, the last file means it is the last | : , CONFIDENTIAL ALEELSON REPCRTING COMBANY, INC. DoclId: 322763409 Page 231
CONFIDENTIAL 229 one that's been opened, I mean, in the serial performance, Ww ina looseleaf sense. In other. words, it would be the most op recent one. Mr. Goldsmith. Okay. nT Mr. Rocca. Last in the sense of the most recent one. | D I “ ei Mr. Goldsmith. Please refer to CIA number 2075, which - i —] 7 i . . { a _ yas the second page of a memorandum to the Director of the FBI! = me dated 30 January, 1964. The subject matter is Jack Ruby. | ~ i y question is a very narrow one. = nan This page contains some cross references indicating | = i which files received a copy of this memorandum, and among : * i other listings it indicates that a copy went into a file that: Y = 3 is referred to as a dummy file. This parentheticallhy indicates so | dummy -- "CI/R&A(Dummy) ". = sod S aan What is a dummy file? 7 Z ‘s | Mr. Rocca. Whoever wrote this kept dummy files, . | wi 7 - { which would be a file for his own purposes of what he had = | sent to us. vy ! : = 3 il ~ i Mr. Goldsmith... Is a dummy file then simply a soft | file? KS Mr. Rocca. A soft file or whatever you want to call | @ en i it. It would be eventually destroyed, I suppose. i : | It would be for his feference in checking off what | 24 | | | had been sent. ~ i Mr. Goldsmith. Okay. | i cON ?F IDEN TIAL om —— mere pe mee ar y= ‘ SAIS OR SORTING ¢ CMEANC. ING. Docld:32263409 Page 232 meee! AS ~
no sy eoey ~ ~ . boa 7 = ‘ x 3 | < i : 9 | i S ; = «10 3 : = Gti = Hi we t = ~ - i cs i ewe a” H c 13 = i -_ i eS tg | x i = oe dl Pe tos = 4 = if 16 | = | -_ te . u “I 17 | - H = i ~ ts 4 bowed 3 1 a i an = 1 I eG 7 =~ | € ! c 20 } = - i | 411 a Ee ; =k Ae 7& nd no a ay 4 he was a KGB agent in the United States. CONFIDENTIAL os 230 Mr. Rocca. That would be my best guess under the circumstance. Mr.Goldsmith. Do you have any basis today for thinking that Oswald may have been an agent of the KGB? | ’ Mr. Rocca. I would have to say what I stated yesterday, that there is no credible evidence at this moment, at this time, on the basis of the records that we have that If you are asking me as a counter intelligence specialist, generally what my feelings are on balance regarding his relationship to the KGB, I would answer that there is no question that he was debriefed in detail by at least two eschelons of , Soviet authorities, one of which, if not both of which, were KGB, and if there are indeed two, one was the Thirteenth Department. I am relying now on defector information for that judgment. ‘He himself in his statement, which you have reminded me of, indicated that he felt free to give that information. I think it is now ascertained beyond reasonable doubt that he knew from direct observation enough about U~-2 to give that as a most significant item of information to the Soviets, and | that he himself, as he said, felt free to give radar information. So, placing together the contact at the camp in California, the Marine Camp, going back to the Delgado testimony, the rapidity of his release from the Marine Corps, presumably on cou FP IDENTIAL ot i . ERSOM SEPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 322763409 Page 233 ALCSRSON R “ y
nm te de in i | 2602W €202) S50--239n5 oa Cc, oO p. WAST EMGTON , REPORTERS BULTLDTNG, to STREEP, SoA. Oo 5 ana nm oOo TTu i it ' Docld:32263409 Paye 234 ALSERSON SESOR. apparatus of the fourth -- of the American Department of the CONFIDENTIAL 231 i ‘ compassionate reasons which turned out to be a trip to the Soviet Union and all the rest, I would say there is no question, therefore, about the debriefing and his cooperation. | Mr. Goldsmith. What would the other eschelon have been that debriefed Oswald? Mr. Rocca. It would have been one of the screening units connected with the journalistic apparatus or foreigner Second Chief Directorate group of the Internal Group which, however, defers on matters of military specialties-~- [I : understood this from a defector; I think this is sustained by others -- to the Special Department. | So, there is no question in my mind that he was, : therefore, in their hands. At that point, it becomes purely speculative, except that there is much more circumstantial evidence involved in his handling and treatment in the U.S.S.R. that can be more pertinently commented to, and was in part pertinently commented to, in the memoranda submitted to the Warren Commission, but can be I think more fully and pertinently commented to by the defectors available today, which show highly specialized and favorable treatment. There is also the fact -~- and this is just pure -- are we on the record? Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. COMP IDENTIAL RATING COMPANY. INC.
, CONFIDENTIAL 232 Mr. Rocca. This is. just pure counter intelligence ta lab work, and as I say, it's absolutely impossible to talk tO) about these things in public, but Minktenbaugh, a confessed | Think about the problem of recruitment in a gross sense that ow i | Soviet spy -- M-I-N-K~T~E-N-B-A-U-G-H -- another who went to ; ” x : : the Soviet Union in 1959 and 1960 -- he was connected with | : 6 Johnson, the Sergeant Johnson case -- was assessed, trained, | 5 7 | and returned to the United States on a separate mission. He ! : 3 : had made his contact in Berlin, as had Johnson. | < an The interesting thing is that they presented him to a | z 19 woman who was to come to the United States with him as a wife, = 7 under the guise of a wife. He is a homo, and so the thing : : iZ did not work, though they tried. But the M-O, if you put the. @ 5 i Marine business together, is close to exactness on the : | methodology, that is, the setting up of a couple, but the : Ho timing is what is interesting -- 1960. “ Is | These :are just things that keep you thinking in the = i : "I middle:of the night. Was the case officer who handled : “| Minktenbaugh and who we know by his own confession and polygraph-- E aa now he is out and serving time and he has, as I judge, told , = 2 | his story completely -- was he part of the same ~-- here, | f ee Minktenbaugh is an Army defector, or Air Force, whatever. | | the Soviets would have. Note these associations in time and § 3 | Space. Mr. Goldsmith. Was the Warren Commission told about ; cOoON FIDENTIAL | ! { i ‘ i I | LEERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld:32263409 Page 235 ALOSESRSON REPOR coh
CONFIDENTIAL 233 this defector, Minktenbaugh? | Mr. Goldsmith. When did the Minktenbaugh case’ break? | | | | Mr. Rocca. This has all been developed since then. " . | Mr. Rocca. Oh, it broke after 1964 - 1965, | = | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether the woman companion = : ! ~ 8 to Minktenbaugh was a witting collaborator to the plot? | ~ . 5 - Mr. Rocca. Oh, she was, indeed. | 2 | : 7 (Pause) : ‘ | Mr. Rocca. Now I trust you understand that I am not = is stressing this. I am simply stating it as a fact on the table : iz in a laboratory sense, which counter intelligence people are ! = \ : a supposed to be dealing with. It is not for publication. | r e ‘3 Mr. Goldsmith. Are you familiar with the allegation : = A} . : ‘| that Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA agent? | z “i Mr. Rocca. Yes. | : “| Mr. Goldsmith. When did this allegation first arise? | : . | i : i -Mr. Rocca. It came out almost immediately. It was: | = “ in the press immediately, as I recall. | E a Mr. Goldsmith. Was the allegation ever brought to your e A . at = a personal attention? ! t : ce Mr. Rocca. No, not for any action. es ee @ las ~ Mr. Goldsmith. Were you ever directed to conduct an 2 \ investigation into this? 24 | Mr. Rocca. No. 38 i I certainly sent Mr. Hartman around to ask people : - CcONPFIDENTIATL a ALSERECNM HEPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 322763409 Pate 236 ; ,
CONFIDENTIAL 234 whether there were any traces in all of the files of the agencies t to which we had access to ascertain whether there was ever any contact with this man. Mr. Goldsmith. Why did you: do that? in “Mr. Rocca. Because it disturbs me greatly that. the thing could even be suggested. ™I 202% £202) 55-2345 Mr. Goldsmith. And when did you send Mr. Hartman i - | i around to conduct this? e | Mr. Rocca. Oh, it was in that period and later. Mr. Goldsmith. What was the result of Mr. Hartman's investigation? 3, VALUTUGTGON, Mr. Rocca. There was no indication that was ever produced that Lee Harvey Oswald was ever in any kind of BUTLDING a fiduciary relationship. REPORTERS & Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall what Mr. Hartman's 4 4 i = investigation ‘entailed? = i ‘Mr. Rocca. No, I don't. 2 ia | 5 | I mean, he went around simply asking people in the = lf) | Cad ! } . | various desks, in the various components, in the Contacts S 20 | | Branch. | a: Pr aE wake if . ’ : « Wee fi Mr. Goldsmith. Did he submit to you in 1963 or 1964 r “™ | the results of his investigation? 238 | Mr. Rocca. I cannot recall that. He certainly did verbally, which was that: there was no - substance to the claim. ‘ CONFIDENTIAL ALDERSOM SEPORTING COMPANY, INC. ' DoclId: 322763409 Pag 237
CONFIDENTIAL 235 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you think that the issue is nw sufficiently important to have warranted a written report to ow you in 1963 or 1964? | | | ! ie Mr. Rocca. Well, if there was no substance to it, I - | | = + | think not. | | | i | We were not investigating this. I mean, this was:.a | 5 "| matter actually of pertinence to the Office of Security, | : 7 to the Director, to Mr. Helms, and the others, and if there | is ; | were to be a formal investigation, I would have said they ~ ‘| i A ie i would have done it. ! zi i z - Certainly in the staff meetings this question was : i raised at the highest level -- has this man ever been in touch @ 5 I | So, this was not one of the, in other words, one of the : : ie questions that I was given formally to work on. It was a : _ : I matter of personal interest. 3 : ie Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall whether Mr. Helms : “ "7 ever asked you to examine this question? | : . Mr. Rocca. As far as I know, he never asked me, no. ! z PS Nor did Mr. Angleton. | : ! = "| That is the best of my recollection at this moment. | xen Mr. Goldsmith. Please review CIA number 201 through | @ oN | 208. : 23 | 24 | dated 18 September, 1975, subject matter is the allegations =e i of Lee Harvey Oswald's connection with the Agency. | | | . i This is a memorandum for the Chief of the CI staff | | TON PTIDENTIAL Docld: 32263409 Page 236 ALTESSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
CONFIDENTIAL 236 Mr. Rocca... 1975? Mr. Rocca. Your question referred to the earlier be | | Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, | | | | t | period. = | ' Mr. Goldsmith. I know. ° | Now, in 1975, you were no longer Chief of the CI = | staff, were you? : - Mr. Rocca. I never was the Chief of the CI staff. ‘ - Mr. Goldsmith. Thank you. = «| I stand corrected. : (Pause) SLL : ‘* Mr. Rocca. Hah -- he did remember it. @ 3 (Pause) : = Mr. Rocca. Well, I find this -- I'm glad it exists. : a It bears out my recollection. : is Mr. Goldsmith. Okay. . | -Mr. Rocca. But bear in mind that this was something z an that I did out of absolute deep, deep personal animus. E eo Well, that's the wrong word -- that is, the suggestion that ¢ : , = 8 to me I still find: greatly offensive. This is the last man co in the world who could have ever been -- who would have TREY 42 Y -_ | ever met our criteria for recruitment. 23! Mr. Goldsmith. Would you be more specific in the 24 reason for that? Mr. Rocca. Well, I mean, his whole background, his a CON FPIDENTIATL oo tm pte . BLOERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 4 Docld:32263409 Page 239
237 CONFIDENTIAL psychiatric record, his conduct -- this is now on the basis nm a just so incongruous and vicious that -- I lose my temper, be | | | | | | | of what we learn from the record, and it just seemed to me | | I'm sorry. 5 | - Mr, Goldsmith. Are most of the agents that work with 2 ‘| CIA case officers necessarily stable individuals? _ . 4 ! & | For example -- = : | : 7 Mr. Rocca. There. are some very definite rules | s | _governing the psychological stability of agents, and these : = el rules break down into about, among others -- one is their : Wo background record in terms of family and associations; | uw Hi | " a second, their innate qualifications on testing; third, whether © : 3 they have told you everything about themselves, whether you : = oa know everything about them; and finally, whether they are : = 4 E He! psychologically stable. | = i “ 1S So, you have a whole series of qualifications that he ° 7 would fail. = ; 2 an Mx. Goldsmith. The criteria that you are referring to. <p) i z | now which pertained to whether someone would meet the Agency's S | requisite for serving with the Agency as an agent, are these ae criteria formally adopted in any Agency regulations ox 27 22 | DoclId: 322763409 documents of some kind? Mr. Rocca. They're in a handbook. Mr. Goldsmith. And was the handbook in existence in 1959? : a Mou PIDENTIALg Page 240 SON REPORTING COMPANY. [0C.
CONFIDENTIAL 238 t | 1 | Mr. Rocca. Indeed. | | Mr. Goldsmith. So, it would be very easy, for t . : { t n> example, simply to -- : Mr. Rocca. This was a part of the training. The CI > : > ~ staff wrote the handbook. I wrote it, or edited it, | a ; ~ 8 Mr. Goldsmith. What is the title of the handbook? | m 2 ‘| Mr. Rocca. It's called "Criteria for Double Agents." = i | ° gi : . . : = aa In this case it would have been a person in touch with two ~ | services. : ~ i Mr. Goldsmith. Would the same criteria apply to someone who is not necessarily a double agent? VASHTHUGTON , | | | i Mr. Rocca. It would apply to all agents. They apply | . | to all agents. BUTEDTNG , i ~ 2 Mr. Goldsmith. And such a handbook was in effect in : = _ a : * | Mr. Rocca. That handbook was in existence and was a : 7 part of the formal training program I referred to in R & A, 5: a It.was a part of the job of R & A to draw up these criteria, 3 FI which had::.not been previously drawn up in the OSS history. | cS! | . a So, on my record of observation of individuals, the | nose | study of the background and history of the entire topic -- @ LN and we covered it in detail, that is, reading the background - “ this man would have been rejected out of hand. He would never * have been considered. f Now I have the suspicion that maybe the Soviets got can PFIDENTIAT ALOERSON RESORTING COMPANY. INC. ALSER oe Docld:32263409 Page 241