1-143 | . | | { | in fact, had visited the Cuban Embassy earlier? oy, i ; ; ; ! wh Ms%. Goodpastures. Would you repeat that again, please? — 32 (MY. Goldsmith. Viewing. these two documents together, 7 & | ; ‘the last paragraph of the: article, the language in brackets, : :) it says, "The same person who phoned a day or so ago and | - $ |) spoke in broken Russian." - g "| Does it not become apparent that Oswald, in fact, had S 3 visited the Cuban Embassy earlier? : 7 I admit that. is not a direct inference that can be | 2 10 | drawn, but if you follow the transcripts, if you go back to : 1 the preceding Saturday and you review the transcripts from | = 7 S 12 that day, it becomes apparent that Oswald had been at the Cuban o 2 13 | Embassy on Saturday. - ‘the point that. I.am getting at is that 2 1a | independent. of these documents here, it would séem that a | : 13 : voice comparison, in fact, would have to. have been. made. | : 1s | ‘Ms, Goodpasture. I think that he recognized the voice ! 4 7 | from having listened to. a tape ofthe Cuban Embassy that had g ‘a | Russian on it But did not have a name, instead of just | z 7 listening to two tapes. 7 = “| Mr. Goldsmith. “Going back to page 22,0f Stack C it , . a, a! says; "station unable to compare voice as. first tape erased | prior receipt second call." Sf Als AS mR 3 ay _ Does that suggest to you at at the time that this. cable e 24 | was sent the second tape wasestill in existence? It says | | i . . . . i + One tape was destroyed or erased; the. second one was not. i oo DERSON. RESORTING COMPANY. ING, HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 144 ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY
l+144 ihe) | . Ms, Goodpasture. No, I think that it had been erased. Mr. Goldsmith. You say both have been erased? . 3 | This says, "station. unable to complete" -- ; o 5 | Ms. Goodpasture. The first tape -- | 3 § Mr. Goldsmith, Right. The first tape, according to 2 8 3. | this cable, had been erased, What about the second tape? | E 7 Ms. Goodpasture, Pardon me? , é 3 Mr. Goldsmith.’ What. about the second ‘tape? There are : 4 | two tapes we are. talking about. cand \ : . : \ = 10 | '.. -Ms, Goodpasture, YOu said what about the second tape. | z 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, that is what I said. | v5 “ = 12 oe This seems to suggest ‘that while the first tape had > : 13 | been erased, the second tape has not been erased. | : ar Ms . Goodpasture. That is right. | : ig - “Mr. Goldsmith. this cable is dated November 23, 1963. | = ts What. happened to the ‘tape that was in existence on November | 3 7 | 23, 1963? | : 8 Ms. Goodpasture. I do not think that: it was still in | ” , ; = 19 | existence in November, 1963 but I think that. it still was in | s 7 existence when the tape from the second call came back to US « | sen But the first. one, we. discovered, had been erased. | o> 7 pal 23 Mr. Goldsmith, This says, "station unable to. compare. 7 . 4 voice as. first tape erased prior receipt second call." Why | a 3 | does. not the cable say instead —o | 23 Ms. Goodpasture. They both were erased, I do not. know. | uy . 4 \ ALDERSCN REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32963434 Page 145
! So | ee a 1+145 . . | 1 | Mr. Goldsmith. I recalled earlier that your. testimony | © 3 was that you Looked for the tapes and that you could not | find the first. one. That also suggests that this second one, | cl 4 in fact, was found. 7 | | E s | Was the second tape found? : : 5 | Ms. Coodpasture. ‘Would you repeat that, please? | = 7 Mx. Goldsmith. Your testimony earlier was. that. you | z al looked. for the tapes but you were unable to find the first | co ot . t ; | tape. You did not say that you were unable to. find either : 10 | tape. You said that you were unable to find the first tape. : 7 That, again, suggests that the second tape was found. | 2 2 | . Mss Goodpasture. No, Tr do not think I was able to find et iL o> = 13 any: of the tapes” that had Lee oswala’s calls: on them. I. found 2 4 | the original ‘transcripts, but I could not find the tapes that | : a had those calls. . . Ez 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. ‘The calls. in question came in between | ir 17 || September 27 and October 1, 1963, is that correct? f B "| : Ms, Goodpasture: Thé first call? = | “Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, | ; | ae Mr, Goldsmith. The first call came in, as it turns @ = 2 out, September 27ths The last call that was attributed to 23. | oswald came in October lst... So we have a timespan here of five ar six days in which ‘the calls came in, and your testimony is | ! that’ the first tape was. erased prior to the receipt.of the i | } ! : oe ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. . 4 HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 146
1-146 | second call, yet earlier, you indicated that the normal time | . eS 2 | .lag was two weeks, | re Here we have a tape being erased well before the normal | & oS | time lag. ' Do you have any explanation for that? | = 5 | ‘Ms. Goodpasture, Now. | | ~ . | 2 4 | Mr. Goldsmith. Referring to page 28, Stack c, could | : 7 | you identify this document? | pS a -Ms. Goodpasture, It is a copy of the cable sent from ir 3 | Mexico to Washington, CIA Headquatters. | : 10 : Mr. Goldsmith. What is the date on it? : Hi . Ms. Goodpasture, The. date on it is 23 November 1963, _ 2 12 oo Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Directing your attention to paragraph 4 H Go = 13 4 of this particular document, would you please read that? | : a Ms. Goodpasture, . Douglas aw. Findglass who did eranserip- g _ 1s | kaon said Oswald is identical to person speaking broken | = 16 | Russian who.called from Cuban Embassy 28 September to Soviet | 4 \7 | Embassy. | g s | And that, I. think, was: taken from the information in thig = F transcript, 3-1, Line 151. 5 20.) Mr. Goldsmith, Your response then is that == 2 257.0 eames, Ms .* ‘Goodpasture.s eluthink. that: wag: ‘taken: from. this - : a : py By statement in the October 1 transcript. / “At any time after the assassination of to us i qo. ‘Mr. Goldsmith, lehe President, did anyone go to Boris Tarasoff who is the i ‘person referred 1 to, whose pseudonym was Douglas Pindglass “= AI i i . . ad he ALS ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, ING. WW 50955 Docld: 32263434 “Page 147
1-147 | / |) at any time after the. assassination did anyone go to Mr. | € | 2 | Tarasoff and ask him whether the person. speaking in these | | 3 7 conversations was the same person? oe + | . Ms. Goodpasture. I. did not, but I. did not see it. 5 ; The. person who saw him was Herb ‘Minell and that was, his case , 2 6 | officer. The outside person for the electronic surveillance | a. | . E 7 | delivered tapes to me, but he did not give them guidance or : 3 supervision. That was: given to him by Mr. Minell, who would | 9. | have heen. the one who would have gone to him and talked to him ra = 10 | about this, | 2 y | SS Mr. Goldsmith.’ ‘This. paragraph number 4. seems to suggest, a3 i . = 2 does. it not, that Findglass was actually specifically asked S ; . td = 13 whether Oswald was the same person appearing in each ‘conversa~ : “| tion. | | _ E 's Ms. Goodpasture. It could be interpreted that way or | = 1s it could also have heen taken from this other transcript. _ i “ 7. Mr. Goldsmith. -And finally, I would like you. to. compare 2 a the statement in paragraph 4 of this cable with paragraph 2 | ‘E | on page 22, ae , | = 20 : a (Pause) | | eae u Paragraph. 4 indicates that Findglass said that Oswald | <> fal a is identical with the person in paragraph 1 speaking broken. ! 7 Russian, yet the. earlier cable on page 22, the second para- : ‘> * i ‘graph == this is your cable -- you report that the station. was. ‘unable to compare the. voices, Is there any way to resolve the | ; : ALOERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 149
7 : a | 5 [148 \ | inconsistency? eG 2 | Ms . Coodpasture; The. only explanation is the one I made 3 previously, is that the two tapes werecstill. not available at ! ® 4 | that. time to. compare and we had to take the transcriber's : | 5 : word for it. | 38 Mr, Goldsmith. I would also like:to- point out that. a = z | paragraph 2, the very last Line, the first ‘two words, it says : 3 | “probably Oswald." Is that correct? | . 7 | Ms. Goodpasture. Page 22? / | = 10 Mr .CGoldsmith. Page 22, the second paragraph, the last | E W line, it says "probably Oswald." . | = Me | Ms ;Goodpasture. Yes. ! es @ B13 | ‘Mr. Goldsmith. This. cable is Mexico 7023, of 2 i | Then, two cables later, 7025, the fourth paragraph, it | ‘3 says Douglas J. Findglass, who did transcriptions, says © | > iH ; ; . . H * te Oswald is identical. We ‘no longer have any words of qualifica+ = ' . ; ° ve tions. ! E 8 | _ I am referring now to page 29 , Paragraph 4. | i” “Ms. Goodpasture. What page is the other one? | ) | = 2 | My, Goldsmith; Page 29, paragraph 4, It says, Findglass, | Kee who did transcription, says Oswald is. identical... The earlier : e5 : o y a<d es ' cable. says r “probably Oswald.” Unable. to compare voice aS ! | a first tape exased prior to receipt of the second." , a x Two cables later , it says. that. Findglass says Oswald is | . - | identical with. the person speaking ‘broken Russian. who called | ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 450955 Docld: 32263434 Page 149 . ™
from the Cuban Embassy on September 28th. | | | | 1149 | What. happened between the time that Mexico 7023 was sent “out and Mexico 7025 was sent out to account for this differ-. | $n | ence? ‘Ms. Goodpasture. The only explanation I can give is. 6 that we went over the files. again and we found the references ~ = 7 that. the transcriber had made, the statements that he had | S : riade, that it was.the same person. Oh, Mr. Minell could nave | : "| see ot and talked with him, fond i : . . - : z 10 ‘In your interview with Mr. Minell, I am sure that he | 2 }) | would renenber if he did. 12 Mr. Dodd. Let me interrupt for one second. > A 13 Miss. Gocdpasture, ‘at the time ‘that you were. sitting down! a id | and having discussions over these November 23 -= over this | | : 1s | 23 November, 1963, when you were sitting down and comparing | | - ig these two memorandum ;. was Mr, Tarasoff ever present in the | “ 17 preparation of these memos? | zs a Ms... Goodpasture. Did Mr. Tarasoff ever -- | BONY Mr. Dodd, Was he present during the preparations of | = 20 these menos and these discussions you were having? | - | “Ms, Goodpasture. You mean this. one? . | & Mrs Dodd. I am talking about..page 22, the menorandum : on which you were the authorizing officer, the memorandum 4 involving paragraph 4 on page 29 where Mr. Findglass says that. Oswald is identical. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. i HW 350955 Docld: 32263434 Page 150
2n02% (202) S54-2345 Cc, ob. MASHTHGTON, S.U. REPORTERS BUTLDING, 300. 7TH STREET, H¥ 50955 Decld: nw de iss Qs wf - 32203434 Page 151 ; | | : 1-150 Ms. Goodpasture, No, he was not present. | Mr. Dodd. He was not present for any of those discus- | | sions? | | | | Ms. Goodpasture. No. .‘Thesreasan was that he was located outside of the ! ; | embassy and these were not taken outside. | | Mr. Dodd, Did you ewer personally speak to Mr. varasofé i Ms, Goodpasture. Yes, I have spoken to him personally. | Mr.) Dodd. Did you speak to him at the time? | Ms Goodpasture. Now. T was not in. touch with him at | i , this: time? _ | Mr. Dodd. Did you speak to him ~~. how did you know he | compared the voices? | | | Ms. Goodpasture. Pardon me? | “Mr. Dodd. How do you know he compared the voices if | you. did nat speak to Rim? _ | . Ms. Goodpasture. -I took it from this transcript, I. | 7 | think, from a statemerit made here that he typed himself, the | P 1-8 is a copy of a transcript prepared by Tarasoff.on his | | typewriter. | Mr. Dodd; - Let us suspend for a second. | - (Bause)’ - | : Go ahead. © ! | Mr, Goldsmith. Probably you will not. believe this. I. ! “| only have a few more questions, | | | ALDERSON aESORTING COMPANY. INC. |
1-151 i | | Turning to.page 30 of the documents in Stack C, this | 2 is a duplicate of Mexico number (7025, is that correct? 3 7 Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. | i | > a _ Mr. Goldsmith. This. is the same cable that in paragraph : 5 -4 makes a reference to Findglass. saying that Oswald is identi- | ; | a 6 | cal with the person who’ spoke broken Russian. involved in the ! = 7 | ‘Cuban Embassy on September. 28th, is that correct? & 3 : Ms » Goodpasture . Wait a minute, I am not. following you, | gg page 30? | | Z 19 | ‘Mr. Goldsmith: Turn to page 30. That is a duplicate | : 7 of 7025. That is the Mexico copy of. 7025 eo | 22 | Ms. Goodpasture, Mexico 7025, right. qa FE 13 | . Mr. Goldsmith. This is your ‘copy, the one that you | : “ ‘referred to earlierl On page 28 and 29 was the copy that : 13 went to headquarters, is that correct? ~ | : Is | Ms Goodpasture.. Yes. “ "7 | Mr. Goldsmith. Fine . We are talking about the same | : #8 ) cable now, In each ‘case, paragraph. 4 makes the. same reference EY. | £0 Oswald's. being identical, at cetera i et cetera. Who was : = 29 the authenticating officer, page 32, I bélieve. eae Ms. Goodpasture. I. am.. . | ' @ pa + Mr. Goldsmith. Turning back to page 23, which. refers | 23 to Mexico 7023,Ewho is the authenticating officer of that . | @ “4 i cable? | | / . 73 Ms... Goodpasture . - am. , : HW 50955 DBocld:32263434 Page 152
1-152 1 Mr, Goldsmith. Yet, in the first cable, you say | a 2 | "probably Oswald. Station unable compare voice as first tape | 3 erased prior receipt second call." ~ And in the second. cable. | i i 4 you state, “Oswald is identical,” without any language of : 5 | qualification.: : ) MSs «. Goodpasture. I said that the transcriber said he : E 7 | was: identical, right? | S a4 Mr. Goldsmith .. Did. anything happen? | 3 4 Ms. Goodpasture. In the other one; we were unable to | : - 19 | have the tapes for someone else to -compare then, for other | E i people to listen to them or to send them to headquarters: for 2 a ; , | : 42 | them tolisten to. them, ‘but. we. did have. on record from this | . : | © : 13 | transcript that he had prepared that Tarasoff said that the i 1d ‘calls were made by the same. man. E 1s Mr. Goldsmith. You have no explanation for why the | = 1s | Oswald tapes would have been erased within six. days. of.their i 4 ve | receipt by the Mexico City station as opposed to within the | z 18. : normal two-week period. | ite] : , LE me Ms ."Goddpasture. ° No, I cannot. explain it. 7 s 20 Mr. Goldsmith. ' Ohe final question. ‘Have you discussed | «ser.'' | the testimony ‘that you have given: us. ‘today, have you discussed’ & fa 22 that with anyone prior to coming here today? . 2 Ms. Goodpasture.’ “Have. I discussed the testimony? : e | 46 | “we Goldsmith. Have. you discussed the nature of your » | | 25 testimony with anyone prior to your. coming here today? _ | | 4 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DBocld: 322763434 Page 1453
1-153 \ | Ms... Goodpasture. The only discussion I had was a | © 2 | confusion about my coming up, which ‘I discussed when. I | 4 arrived, and there was a misunderstanding of my being brought | lle 4 | up here. zs \ Mr. Goldsmith... I am aware: of. that.. ~, i 3 a Have. you discussed the. substance of your testimony with | S 7 | anybody , or what you thought would be. your testimony with . | & 3 | anyone? . | : 9 : Ms. Goodpasture.. No,. I. have not talked with anyone since : 1a | I left here yesterday. | S | : il. Mr. Goldsmith. _. Since you left. the Committee's offices | | 3 17 ! yesterday, is that correct? | | © = 13 : ' Ms ; Goodpasture, That is- right. I left your office » | | = i = 14 yesterday, | | = 1s | Mr. Goldsmith. I have nothing further. Thank you - | zs 18 | very much, : ear | Mr. Chairman? | | 2 ig Mr. Dodd; Mr. Preyer, do you have ‘any questions? © | 19 | Mr, Preyer : Ir have no further questions. at this time, - | = 26 : Mr. Doda, Mrs, Goodpasturé, first of all , I would like | ——- an to request. ef you that vou leaveryour address or addresses | SN | ee : ) —— © pe! 22 with the Legislative Counsel of the CIA from time to time. 23 | so if we feel a need to get back. ‘th touch. with. you, we can — | ME 24 contact them and they. can. locate you for us. If you would ! Z5 i do that, IT would appeeciate ite , | | RERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. | HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 154 ALBERSON REPORENS Soe:
an oo a . ~ #154. | Secondly, I: want. you to know that we are grateful to | i 2 | you for. appearing before your Committee. You have been help- | in | 2 | fo ful and we are grateful. to you for that. . . . | | I want to apologize to you if I seemed to be a little | 5 | abrasive on that one point, which. is that we are trying to | ; ao 2 4 | get to the truth of this as quickly as we can. Under our i. 3 | rules of this Committee, we give each witness an opportunity | S 7 vat the conclusion of their testimony to take five minutes. and : : sum up or add any additional information that you feel tight = io | Be helpful to this Committee or to correct what you may feel | z 1) | aye any inconsistencies or contusion over testimony that you a a | Rave given this comittee, and I will ask you now. to take > | | i} : 13 | advantage , if.-you would so desire, of five minutes or so to | : | make that summation. | | : Is | ‘Ms. Goodpasture. ‘The only thing that I could think of i 5 ey right now is that I. feel that some of the papers here are | 4 7 | probably out of context and still have some errors. in them, ! 8 | and those errors that come up, I am sure theysare human | a | = 19 errors and there may be more of them. | . 4 zs an . ‘I know. in this. one draft of background material, I just | “aec.'| | quessed at the dates when people were there as well as nanes, | & | ge 22 as well as much. of the information about the situation in ; 11 | Mexico at that. tine, because it was to. be used as a framework | a 24 for trying to pull together the documents that would he needed 25 | compmesient a true picture of what. the agency had in their | ALSSESSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 155
1-155 : | ‘| €iles or the situation that was there ‘at that ‘time. ot | That is about all I. can think of now.. 3 ta | | ; | Mr. Dodd. Thank you. | ) .. All right, Miss Goodpasture, you are excused as a | | | | i } witness. Agakn, on behalf ofttheCommittee, I express my Oe gratitude to you, “Mr, Preyer. “I want. ctoucongratulate you on your stamina | ™E 224 (202) SSH-2945 | a Miss Goodpasture, | | i} oo 9 i Mr. Dodd. Unless there is any further business before z 0 | this Subcommittee, we will stand in recess until further 5 | , oe | oer: (Whereupon, at 3:45 pim, the Subcommittee recessed to | é iD q ' 1 reconyene at the call of the chair.) | . 7 Ss = i i ! 1 i 300 7TH STREET, M BESCRTING COMPANY, INC.