é ts CONTENTS og ns g e Deposition of Examination by Counsel 3 | For the Commission 4 S| | wiriiam C. Sturbitts 2 = 4A on i (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58) William C. Sturbitts (Resumed)} 58 .8 & 9 | | 178-10002-10091 12 | - i z i 178-10002-10215 F 13 I < 14! , : 178-10002-10279 O.c. 20003 25 3 24 | ; Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 barst Stecet, S.E., Wasnington, 29 SECRET HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 2
SECRET : i | PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION es) I a Fe z | ON CIA ACTIVITIES Fi Lo < co F Langley, Virginia’ . Wednesday, April 16, 1975 Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for | examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities, | the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary ‘ Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the j “fy Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50 ie i o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings» $ > +) 3 1é | being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. McClenning, and 2 * af ) Le ' transcribed under her direction. 3 = APPEARANCES: ao On behalf of the Commission: 1¢ 7 GEORGE MANFREDI, ESQ., an ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ. 1é --- “ L9 ° 8 3 ac . G t 2 \ 2 Be! \ 5 24° Photocopy from < : Gerald Ford Library = 25 5 . . HWW 50955 pocid: 32275518 Page 3 SECRET
° 8 1 § 2 Z 4 5 6 q 8 9 10° 11 ; 12 < . 2 13 15 16 L? 138 - 19 i. 20 c : 23 Z 24 25 3 Thereupon, called as Tew apt mee pag WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, a witness by Counsel for the Commission on.CIA Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and testified as follows: | Q record? x Q weeks ago Waiver"? A A Economic Hi Q EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION BY MR. MANFREDI: Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the William C. Sturbitts. Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke some you signed a document entitled, “Advice and Right. You’ understand that document is still in effect? Sure. Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed? You mean the Agency or -- That is right. Central Intelligence Agency. . And what is your current position with the Agency? “I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for Intelligence Collection and Operations. ‘And would you briefly review for me the history of HW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 4 SECRET Asegty pio4 pjesay ios) Adosv0j0uUd
wEGREI 3 : E a: ; 4 your employment with the Agency? z 2! . 5 | A When I first came in I was in the Intelligence 2 | Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on special 2 ij . i a 4 ii , . i detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, plang j which is now the Directorate of Operations. | i 9 What year were you put on that detail? Ny A I guess it was 1964, January, I believe. B | Q And what did that detail involve? A Cuban operations, economic warfare. | 10! ; i ~ 1 Q And how long were you on that detail? i | A I was in the Cuban operations for nine years. | 12 3 | Q Between 1964 and.1973? | : toy A (Nods in affirmative.) | ~ 1] bd at : . 3 ar Q And in 1973 did you assume your current position? | Sy A Yes, January. ey Q Now, while you were on special detail ~- to the DOD? an i . : ~! A Yes. ie Q Were you stationed in Washington? 3 aa A Yes. . 4 t i & i | 2 20 Q And did you commute with some frequency to Miami? | im i 2 3 a OA Yes. 2 i 4 } : vs a . . ” « . ; = ee | Q Were your activities in Miami in any way connected | wl | “i 22 3 . . 3 £3 4 with the operations of the Miami Station? 2 24 | A In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide. 2 i : . 22 ll 1 teok temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami. ; ; _ . SEC RET Photocopy from HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 5 Gerald Ford Library
SECRET | 4 | ° H @ # Most of my operations were run out of Europe. a t . a 2: . . a | 9 Run out of ~- q oO i . ‘ : a } A Europe. Some were run cut of Miami but the big ones 5 . . } & 4 - were run out of Europe. " Q Well, in the course of your activities with respect 6 . . _ 3 “to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the 7 . = . - 4 | { operations of the Miami base? i 8 ; A Yes. ‘i | 9 ; Q And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami? i om ; a A Yes, sir. | Li 2 During the nine years you were with Dpo's Cuban. i 2 le operations, who was ~~ who were the chiefs of the Miami 12) Station? 3 dé A t think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he | 15 \ was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know 16 | it. Well, I will come back to that. | 17 | . Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze. i6 3 Q What years was he Chief? 2 i9 © A I think ‘Baul was there about a year and a half. He Gi 20 | left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's 3 21) say Héhze was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterlind. z 221 He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973. tw i : Ao 3 Q Now, what was the formal title of the group to which z 24 : you were assigned for the G-vear period? | : | 2 i ; ; | 7 zo | A Well, when I first came in it was known as the 5 i Photocopy from | i SEC RET ' Gerald Ford Library 2 HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 6
SECRET . g : * Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald. ; And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations : ° | Group. : * | Q Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was ° it attached to one of the area divisions? e A No. Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing ? called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And é that -- when Harvey left, he went to‘@hief of Station.{ | 9 and Fitzgerald took over, it became Special Activities Staff. 16 | Tt wasn't attached to anything except ~~ it reported to the aa peputy Director, Plans. : 12 Q and that was Mr. xaramessines? : Le A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it 3 14 was first created. Helms was DDP at that time. +5 9 And Task Force W was created immediately after the 6 Bay or Pigs? - iv A Well, not immediately. I think sometime around -- 16 : in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in i9 September, something like that, 1961. 2000.1 : 20 Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities : £2 : BY Special Activities Staff and consequently became the : 23 ; Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went : 24 . back into the Western Hemisphere Division. : 25 i 9 And what was the date of that reorganization? Photocopy from SECRET (onto oy HY 50955 Doecld: 32275518 Page 7
ats we CE 8 o 5 ¢ 1 2 A gs es] ai 2 z = later DDP. z 4 Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do 5 Harvey held after he left Task é A Yes. He wasiChief of ] Q And is he still with 8 A Oh, no. He retired a fe) Q Do you know where he 1c A 12 12 Harvey is a lawyer. 3 . * 1z 9g Indianapolis area? 3 ig A Ls Indiana. 16 2 un W? 1@ A 19 2 3 5 i i? : 20 lished: 3 22 i 4 23 ° A A Oh, yes. 3 24 os 2 ar o 7 25 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then you recall what position Mr. Force W? Station, the Agency? long time ago. lives at the present time? Frankly, I don't, I have an idea where he lives. Yes, some vlace around there. It is in the midwest, He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. What was the role that was assigned to Task force It was'the overall Cuban operations. Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab- Well, fI think they had a forward operatio-s base down there about 1960 which was small, “in Coral: Gables. This was, then, crior to the Bay of Pigs? Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami - SECRET HY 50955 Doecld:32275516 Page 6 Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around
SECRET ; co] 2 2 4 . ¢ Station running any operations against Cuba? Ps] N 2. a ij A You mean prior to. the Bay of Pigs? 3 " Q Yes. A I really don't know. It was a small -- it was a forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support type H thing. i 7 | | ‘ Q Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was 6 !  astablished, did it have sole responsibility fer Cuban i " = operations? uC. A Yes. | di: Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami a: — 2 12. Station? < oa 3 te A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. = Ls 9 All right. Would that also be true of the Special oe Activities Staff, the Cuban Overations Group? i? | SY i ic. Q t understand that. When were Cuban operations termi- ig nated? 20 A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down 21: there in 1972. it was during fiscal year '72. I think it was Wuehiigtas, £ ©. 20003 22% in early 1973. it was a gradual reduction. : 23 | 5 3 24 : 25 ‘ Photocopy fr: SECRET Gerald Ford Library | HY 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page 9
stGRET Qo co] re) 1 2 “ 2 3 rel = 2 q 3 € 3 2 5 z 4& +) 6 L, . . } 2 Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may Si have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina- 9 : tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination | 1G © attempts that have been mounted -~ _ i Lik: A Right. r 12 3 Q -- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your 3 13 activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such} g ‘ Z , | 3 1 attempts? | ' } 16 fi A Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say 16° attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too | i? } strong a word. | 16 : Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of | 2 39: any such discussions? . 3 H g 5 20... A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions, S "| i 21 i I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgerald = f = i 3 22} inf And tT knew that he was going to meet -- let me put 23: it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on : 24 with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as S : ; = 25 i I recall, he wanted some British -~ I mean Belgian rifles and vane - | | Phot | fr | | SE C RET Gerald Ford Library | HY 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page 10
stGRE f | 9 | 8 = Lot g ' a telescopic sight. & i Q Who wanted them? 2 t A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going 5 ! on. I didn't participate in it because I was there for another ! reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald 9 | met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa-~| 8 . tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. | 9 | | : I provided all those files. There are 19 valumes that 1c we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing | ll. ; | ~~ ' them. . I think Belin was going to do it himself. | » 3 le Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself. | < : le ° You said there were 19 volumes of documents with ~ - i] Z a” 3 ~* respect to this. 75 . . [ ~ A 19 files, manila. 16 . . . . . =o Q All having to do with possible assassination? | a A All having to do with this whole time period and -- | = . , | te can we go off the record for a minute? 2 i9 (Discussion off-.the record.) : 20 BY MR. MANFREDI: | 5 ei Q The first knowledge of such conversations that you | 2 | g ee" nad, I take it vou obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr. | 3 ao | Pitzgerald? 2 ao A I simpliv overheard it, that is right. ; 25 i 9) And who were the parties to the conversation you overr i f Ph tocopy from HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 11 ee
add ton “tes BS EE LU 3 " heard? a) ti , a 2 3 a cee a | A A fellow named Néstor Sanchez. ; | a q 5 lf . 2 ; Q And Mr. Fitzgerald? F: A ; . ° . A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other : people. We were ~- we nad just moved the Station at that time, |. n i] ae ee yO * and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations i ‘ t ; 8 ' took place -- we walked around the garden and tyat type of i | 9 ° . . 1 % - thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody it ; 16 : . - - . ; i ’ was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations. | ant Q This was | 2! 3 Le A Yes. | Ps ae! | : tag 9 I see. , | 3 13 | Mr. Sdnchez ~- was he a member of the military? LS A No. Mey, Sanchez was..in the Special Activities Staff. | 16 |. He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with i i? ° cuban military-type. is : Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had receive 2 if: instructions with respect to this activity from another G £0 i) component of the Government? 2 el: A Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether z 22 | they received instructions. I have to assume, and I am pretty | ob t ™ A won . . to 3 25 positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision. 3 24 and at this time vou have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was i 7 251 overseeing this deal, sresumably for his brother, and he was | SEC REL Photocopy from HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 12 Geraid Ford Library
DSEGKE! oa ¢ co] ro) 5 . 5 part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided a a 2 a i he did a number of things. 2 ‘ g Were there any other occasions that you can recall _ in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of ~ Fidel Castro was discussed? é A No, not really. Q You referred to this as the first occasion. ' ~ A This is the first -- | ¥ Q Was there a second? + A -- the first time I knew about it or even heard it | aaa discussed. 7 Le. Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently | € i 2 aa underway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigation = aa -- were there any other occasions in which this subject came | 1 +e to your attention after this discussion in the garden in | +7 A The only other thing that came to my attention was | + that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight Bu 13 that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don’t know, |! ) aC but that is what I was told. S i 5 i Q When did vou learn that? z Be A Oh, I would assume in -~ must have been early 1964, = Ke around February, something like that. | 2 as ) Off the record. | 7 me (Discussion off the record.) | ' Photocopy from HY 50955 Doclid: 32275516 Page 13
a oe 12 sO MR. MANFREDI:: On the record. rae : BY MR. MANFREDI: Pouce ¢4Mas 208) 5441-000 ~ , 2 Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by * _ the name of Frank Sturgis? - a Indeed. < Q Is your familiarity based on what you have read in 7 2 the press: eG A No. It is what is contained in the files. Q Pa . Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files, ‘4- particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division, =~ ' in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any - Le connection with the Agency? 4 te A I have. 3 LS Q What were the results of that search? ao A Absolutely no connection, never has been. ae Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about 27 - an employment relationship? Le A That is what I am speaking of. 5 L? rs) Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of ; 20. the Agency? 3 21 A No. z 22° Q Was he ever a contract employee? . a as : Pao) A No. 3 3 a Q Was he ever a reqular employee of the Agency? 7 2é A No. - Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 0 Docld:32275518 Page id
SECRET oy Photocopy from : SEC RET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 15 3 7. = : Q Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the Rs) . g ae Fa 1 Agency? < oF ; 5 A Not to my knowledge. a Q Do you Know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-~ ) . - Las . ; pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against ~ Cuba? 7 a . A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this 8 . Agency. an Q How did vou learn of those operations? aan A Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. +40 Q Now, are these recent FBI reports? 7-0 : ae A Oh, no. These go back -- I know at one time, the 2 TT : 8 tI . : 2 ‘ " - thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop Pi - . 3 -= over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and ~° ) by the Bureau office in Miami. 26 ~ Q Do vou know who financed his activities? 7 A I have no idea. 2S Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were ; P g 2 -? indirectly financed by the Agency through ~-- 5 3 aC : A I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of rat " ~ - Z 21: ¥fo6rtune: has been. He has constantly tried to associate himsel z- 7 3 i a 3 22 i with the Agency. When i went through his file they wanted me A z . ’ me : : . . - 3 23: to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't v on ; ; ; , 2 2&4. destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance. 7 £5 i 9 Off the record. | i ‘ H } | | | | | | | |
ad the “os BEES 14 (Discussion off the record.) @\ea 202) 544-6000 ~ MR. MANFREDI: On the record. ; BY MR. MANFREDI: z £ | Q . Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mri, Sturgis to be assembled in any one location? , A Yes. Ihave custody of them. Q And what is the volume of that material? a i ~ A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee | g . ; | called for them the other day after the article in the paper, =: aa I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and | a they returned them Monday afternoon. = Is Q Do you know who examined those files? - ~ A No, I don't. 5 ! ; 3 is Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts ! : oad the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? 1A ‘ Sate “so A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits i =i of so-called information. i Le a) Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged ame} : : | 2 7 narcotics traffic? z 20 A Recently it has been. 3 eu Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office = * in Miami? ‘ J Ze A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami 2 a4 to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the | - i * 25s PBI. - | Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 16
a Pitoue GAreu 202) 9954-6000 &o Cy Oy Co sO aR PaUL fe Cri WArIES }-4 1 feu) be 20004 4 tO raps ras) ps Wasttingtuun, 6. a tA AGU farsa Steced, SE., raw) cn HY 509545 Docld: oa ay) fs 1 | L 4 i t ad fs Ses EE Q Do you know whether or not they consider him an established contact? A No manner. Q Do they have any ~- do they periodically seek to collect information from Mr. Sturgis? A I can't speak to that but the records that we have don't reflect. anything like that. Before they would contact somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file on Sturgis, they would have to coordinate with the Latin American Division before they did anything since we do hoid the file. Q Would you briefly explain what 4 201 file is? A A 201 file is a personnel file. it consists of any information relating to an individual appearing in the press as a resuit of other agency reporting and that type of thing. Q Personnel or personality file? A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me. Q Do you know whether or not there is any connection or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis? A Well, ZI will say this. Obviously, they do know each other. They have to know each other from their days in Cuba. ry ye pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba? As I recall, we employed Martinez around 1961, A No. ~ Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 32275518 Page 17 Do vou know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-
SECKEL | Ls 2 # I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a a 2 i . : . oe gs . 2 | boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations 3 | a = H ! < of ‘ . “ > . > : and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run, Z 4. || : ‘i sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in “ any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever y 6 4 . - ; ; , do it on any of our boats, planes, or -- anything that belonds ! to the Agency. © H fe) When Martinez would run such an operation or captain | i =~ fi . | a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting | together his own crew? | : 174 | e 1 an A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a | Ve . . ’ : I 19 . : P =~ . i Fs 7 Case Officer operating either out.of the -- vrobably out of 2 ; < 12 she Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have = tt ' = H - i = hey some people in the Key West base. But he, Martinez, would receilve | ae | . . . : . ee . . : Ve. “= | his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. | i | 8] 2 So it is likely that he could have brought Sturgis i it 1 along on any cf these operations? ' | it - 1 é ii a Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was: | - ~o trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimmer. | FS i | 5 , : . 20 | Q And that would be.for a period of time between | : | 2 ae | Shackley and Henze? ! 3 22 | A Yes, | = Be! a) 1964 to 1966? = i Z ae i A Something like that. = 25 I. re) Would vou describe briefly for me the nature of the | | | Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Doclda: 32275518 Page 18
Phrase (Aaa 22) Gala bOuUd WARD A Pag, OUD 4 +) Woavtututosa, bho. 7) idee boaeeg wht, f Cri nN }~ ds OH Oo hw a) i te be pe raw) je oO a} ~2 re >} a if ay) CH HY $0955 Docld:32275516 Page 19 DSEUKE! activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during your -~ and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during your 9-year tenure with those groups. A Well, there was -- it was an across~the-~board intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about the breadth of the thing. Q. Now, these were all conducted through the DDO? A Right. Q Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary operations. ‘Were these operations run out of southern _ Florida? A Right. 9 And in particular out of the Miami Station? AL Yes. 9 Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of the country that participated in these activities? A Not to my knowledge, | Q were there any southern harbors other than Miami that were used in these activities? I.said, we did have a | | 9 were there any other bases in that area of the “ae country that were utilized in these operations? SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
Vibe: (ares PUL} oe Ga > Gl dh [en] (ora WANKER te be A ee t Ne} aad el 22 » Wastrisegtat. de. taal 23 thu dares Larned, HY 50955 QDocld: adie Se EE 18 Well, not that I would cail a base. We did have | There were a ! | training facilities for the UDT teams. Q What is a UDT team? : A Underwater demolition. Q Where were those bases located? | A I frankly don't mnowef number of sites. I really can't recall them. in which A eo) i i i: iH PN . é A raids? Ca) | A Now, there also employees, Were there any other sites within the United States paramilitary training was conducted, for people ! participating in these activities? Not to my knowledge. Where were these people trained? What’ do you mean? Well, Cubans who participated in these activities. We trained them at these places: we had | at. che Domestic Training Station. Where is that located? Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to understand at this time that we hac a great many contract independent contractors and this type of thing. Phot f 5 EC R ET Ge rald Ford Library ‘32275516 Page 20 ~- some of them were brought up here and traine | ; ; | . | | { ‘ i | | | \
h Phone (Area 22) oad eOued Cat ra) d> on mH <9) a) gy = 3 f+ Crt WIS ECLD Gk BARGE, fan] nia t-2 chr 20004 nt bod jH i) tO a9) to nN N32 Wrartheagtor, (3 0. to ie) S1dt barsd Siauek, HY 50955 Docld: SEUKE! : 1 Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another entity of the -~ Q DDO? A DDO. 9) Now, the facilities that we have been talking about, training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special Operations. Group, is that correct? | A Weil, supervised, ves, and I would think that probably some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic Hi Training Station is under the Office of Training and -- but would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would probably staff the training tacility with their people who have the expertise in paramilitary operations. | i i . . - Q Now, were the people that were being trained at | | these facilities basically Cuban refugees? A Yes. Q And at the outset i take it not many of those people were American citizens? A No. 2 Or had become American citizens. ' A I would assume a great many have. ) By this time. | | | ‘ A 3y this time, yes. Photocopy from | Gerald Ford Library | SECRET 32275516 Page 21
Crt Phone (Area 202) b44-6060 wo on 4d rey) j ron) WAST KOPALEE, te Fe b+ ifs Col nO y4 on pe Q POURS fo tl. Weastinigtins, av) no I i i | Llried, GL, 24 | Vaca d vest + f ' | | | HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 22 DSEGKE! 20 2 At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi in Miami? Do you have any idea? A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it is probably -- I was trying to think. I would say up towards .a military people. | Q You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert -action. How do you distinguish between those two categories of activities? A Well, actually one can fall into the other. The paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was media placement. We had a number of operations at -- legal- type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel seized a great many art treasures. and in particular he had a Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in the world that he sold to cealers in Europe. He had paintings | that. were immensely valuable that he tried. to have auctioned in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them because he obviously didn't have clear title to them. He was ~~ they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada. We ran-.legal operations, got the owners and had them hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing. He seized these race horses. He tried to peddle them in Europe and up in Canada. We ran opposition against that SECRET =—_—_—Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library be
fo] ° S 1 g i < ma — oo ise ra 2 Cl Ped ? oy < a 2 2 z 4 a a ro aA ne) Tt a 1 a Ls a xX 2 4 13 2 < aa a 3 LS 7" s —_ ww 76 ) 77 ict: 1g a _- $ Fi . 3 29 : a 3 21 2 2 ad 4 23 a nt 3 £4 = f = 25 HY 50955 Docld: ' 21 | z | type of thing. i Q These were what you considered to be covert operations? ; A Yes, covert action. | 9 Now, this is what you were referring to, legal- i type operations? : A Yes. 9 - You used legal process to harass Castro. | i A Yes. ; “ 9 What other types of harassment activities did you run that would fall under this covert action category? ; i A Well -- fe Would economic warfare be -- | A That was sort of something separate unto itself. SECRETS This was ~~ the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a decision of the Special Group to enforce an economic blockade. a 1 9 Is that 302 Committee? 2) What special group is that? Tt is now called the Forty Committee. A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all, ( against Castro -~ 32275518 Page 23° SECRET there and now it is the Forty Committee. . later, but what other types of harassment were you “photocopy from Gerald Ford Library it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then it went to the 302 and then it had another name in between 2 All right. We will return to that a little bit running
Phune {Area 202) 544-6000 Vaated PAE 904 ” WEG bast Gat, GEL, Waitthagien, tC. tH nN Crt ds Ch tk t- t bt fH o>) rent Wo oO) nN }4 ~2 yo 03 21 | 23 | 24 | HY $0955 Docld!32275516 Page 24 pom] a re oe | "22 A This is what I was trying to think of. Q ~~ that would be considered covert action? A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement, media placement. It has been so long ago I really don't remember. I know we had a number of things going against him. Ye used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply, particularly when they were countties that we had treaties with, this type of thing. 2 Let's talk about each of those in turn. You said you used moral suasion. What kind of activities are you referring to? A Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had the legal activities, the legal ~- weil, I don't know how you would phrase it, .to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. I. guess as vou are aware, Cuban industry was totally U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying Ay companies. | SEC REL Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
. SEGKES 23 }- Phane (Area 202) $44-6000 Cr nm Ws Oy WAHD & Kou FLO Farsi Street, S.E., Wastiagion, & C. 20003 HW 509355 Docld: Q All right. And that is what you were referring to ; as moral suasion? A Yes. Q Anything else in that category? A Not really. None that I can think of.. 2Q Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign | companies? | A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless, the point in case being the Leyland buses. We pulled all stops to*stop that sale. The| turned us down Zlat. 2 Now, did you attempt to reach any other sources of supply? A Well, we also had what we call a preemptive purchasing program. If there was a single source of supply for a particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 322755168 Page 25
ad lin Yo SES 8 : 24 { Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 3 F 3 | the market. & H Q Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic +- g | A Yes. | Q -- domestic market? | S | A No. It would be re-sold abroad. , re) In all cases? ; A The cases that I was associated with, it was all ; sold abroad. * t g ; . 2 What kind of purchases were made? : Ry Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased some Bright Stock in Antwerp. . 12 |, 3 9) What? | é | 4 Le oo : | 3 A Brignt Stock. / 9) What is that? ~~ A Heavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of | her energy comes from oil, this was considered a critical j 1.” ' ~ commodity. Bright Stock can be <= oh, it is almost like tar, 7 _ melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this | i - 19 . a a ; S ~ type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So = - we had an oil firm surchase this Bright Stock from a dealer fori : , | 5 2 Ey oo - which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventually z a 5 ee sold in Africa. 4 an . 3 we 3 “Do you know of any sales of such materials that 3 2 ee were made within the United States? Resales, I should say. | “ 4 No. - ! i HW 509355 Docld:32275518 Page 26
" SEGKE! | z ‘| Q In addition to preemptive buying were there any a | other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of 3 i! i 2 | supply to Cuba? i A Well, we did provide through third country agents who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce , “ Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had 7 ' yeplacement parts manufactured that were substandard. j 8 _ | oo - | ‘ Q And vou had them sold through foreign companies? an A Well, we had our agents get the Cuban orders all . over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of fact, pe) 4 is * 73 i 5 “sl 9 Mr. Dillon? ° an A No. He was Secretary of the Treasury. 7 = - 8 Q gut -- But vou must remember that these American -- t : ch Re ai . ~! oO Mr. Connors? “oo A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers, : ¢ o . . . : . . ; . 2 ~9 | well, their places were nationalized and they were only too ‘ ota . , . ‘ - ““ happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona | 3 Tory .- . : : . i 3 “1+ fide business. These things were transshipped through two z 7 . 3 t: __. . 7 = aE | or three countries, finally wound up in Havana. J 4 i 4 an 3 fos 2 You referred to some extra-legal activities. ‘ a ; : : ee | A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what * *° | we did. I just can't think -- I remember this was on one of | | i SEC RET Photocopy from I; , Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 27
oe the “ea TES 26 | g | S z = our activities but I just can't think ~- I remember this was - on one of our activities but I just can't remember what the | Z Cot 2 ' extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know ; it was one of the parts of the program. i) This was illegal activities? Is that what you are ” referring to? A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they ~ weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps they were in a " gray area some place. ~~ — Q Well, whose laws are we talking about, international law, the laws of the United States? rs 3 7 A I would have to go back and review the thing. I i : 13 ; 3 ~~ really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files. ° “ Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the files? ~~ A I would think probably down in the Records Center some Lé | ! a . Q Would it be sossible to obtain that material some -< time during the lunch hour? 2 ~*~ A No. It is forty miles away. \ 7 a . . : | y eC, Q Well, is there some place in the building where : 2 ~~ you could refresh. your. memory? z 3 ae A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipped. Lj ‘ A oe ; 2 Be This is talking 1l years ago, 12 years ago. All that material 2 “s has been retired. * ao Q What category of activity would we be talking about t ' Photocopy from . SECRET ' Gerald Ford Library HY $0955 Docld:32275516 Page 278 Ny -
° a co] 7 é a tT z a a 2 3 oi i - t 2 2 3 z 4 qn o B fo] f na o a v an —_ a7 : 19. a Ls 2 < a ~ & eo fe = < ~ S we AE =_e 7 a 7 2c “3 — wares a o ci an a Ae S 5 a2 = Ho oe 3 ao 3 26 ua a Oz - ceo 3 24 * 2 7 on year SECKE! | 24 when we refer to extra-legal activities? A This is what I was trying to think of and I can't think of what it was. I know extra-legal activities was one parts of the program that we were involved in. I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might! tell me what that is. Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to come back to that. A All right. Q Who else would be knowledgeabie about extra-legal activities that were run against Castro? A Well, the veople that would be knowledgeable are probably retired and I was running the program. So I ran the economic program. Q with the economic program? A ves. Q We talked about media placement during this nine- period.. To what are. you referring when you refer to media placement? . A Well, stories or news items that perhaps our propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers and magazines throughout the world. Q Yould this also include breadcasts over radio stations? Photocopy from SECRET —_SeraldFordibrary HW 50955 Doecld: 32275516 Page 29 too . om ._! Well, these are activities that were run in connection
Ss) a q 2" ; | Q Z Hl Pi | published A Q é A 7 : Q 5. in Miami? A ae handled? fe Col A fs WARIO te PA pe Q }4 cn Hi -s rey A 3 1é Q E +2 A For broadcasts to Havana. : 20 . | 9 And the station 7 | was that received also ei owas that also broadcasting to various areas of the United BR” States? Lo. Whredtsyseac, bs, oe 23° A VIG bast Gra, ray) > te on Castro. You don't SEVKE! Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it. Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines within the United States? Not to my knowledge, no. These were essentially foreign publications? Yes. Were any of them published in the Cuban community — No. The intent was to get world opinion against | What about the. radio broadcasts? How were those Are you speaking of Radio Swan now? Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations were involved. “as there more than one radio station? Mo. We only nad the one radio station but we did L do that by publishing in the United States. contract timep For broadcasts to what areas? I have no idea. I don't know whether they used a particular frequency to cet this out or whether they did it short-wave or what they did. on ° Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library SECRET HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 30
SECREI - c 5 3 : ¢ ~ Q But the intention was to reach Cuba. = 2 & i A Reach Cuba. > “ ‘ Q You referred to a station[ ———s| referred to as Swan. Were there others? S 6 ? : " . I think, and one down in Kev West that they used. 8 Q Where was Radio Swan located? 9 A On Swan Island. = 9 Where is Swan Island? +! i A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras. 124 2 +6 a Q As far as you can recall, were there any other ; : 2 z : . . tae ° 1 radio stations in the United States that were utilized to z Ls proadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba? 25h A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that TA s : we )6dT 6recall right now. ae Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or groups ic affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American 2 L9 public to support those propaganda activities? 3 20 A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of Z el. thing was fully subsidized by the Agency. z Le”: , Q Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were i a yy . . . . * * 2 Z £5 run in connection with Radic Free Europe and Radio Liberty? 3 a4 A Oh, yes. 7 2s a) Was anything of that nature done in connection with a ; SECRET Photocopy from _—| ‘ Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 31
po} ATS 30 | Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library : a Cuban propaganda? : e A Not to my knowledge. 3 l s S| Q And that would include both the publications and the : 4° radio? | 5! A Right. s Q Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of : ? : moments . Could you describe for me briefly the type of ; 7 i § economic activities that were conducted against Castro? | 9 A Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the | 1G | regime, his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We | | worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in | . 12 | the State Department and, well, for instance, in those days, f zZ 13 | guess it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumped from : < 148 about @ penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like 16 | that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -~ Fidel kept ' 16 | saying that he had such a coer crop and this type of thing and | fo ae we just couldn't figure our why he had such a poor crop becausel 1@. some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttihs - 19 : this cane Like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day, : 20 | this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was : a1 | lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any | E 22 | place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place he 2 ‘| : ; 23 | could. a | 3 24 || So in ccoperation with a couple of sugar brokers in | : | | 2 os | New York, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a HT io | | | HY 50955 Doecld: 32275516 Page 32
Phase (eer 202) S4a-o0u0 WAH & PALE 2000 3 Wuoatrsghtanm, boc. wake, Atul best Gteans, HW 50955 on Ps “Oh ie) Pao) ale ake t a Ch Oo }-! }-4 Ww a) Oo tm ij tw cn SEGKE! 31 real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting. It was this type of thing that obviously he was trying to build up the world price because he didn’t have any | money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn't; | want him to get the exchange. So it was those types of activities. Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S. companies enlisted in that effort? A Oh, yes. Q In what manner cid you use U.S. companies and businessmen? | A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A great | many ~~ the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the American community, by American bankers, and obviously they lost everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is the « - . . . ! tifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, this i i type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 target. So it that we would go to the American businessmen. 4 was only natural that i Q What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain from these businessmen? A Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you know, the market conditions. were, why the price was rising, if we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would happen to the market Srice. This type of thing. 0 They were used as consultants,basically. SE CRET Photocopy from | Gerald Ford Library Docld:32275518 Page 33
Plrone (Aron 202) 544-0000 fey en Cit to “2 Warr & PALE ia I~ fF io) Ps Cr nN be Oo fo ~? F A La) “0003 au) O Wasttiagton, iC. Fla bast Suicet HY 50955 Docld: wd Kem es TSE 32 A They were used as consultants, basically, yes. fa) We have spoken about the investment American business had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American organized crime -- A NO. a) -- had considerable investment in Cuba? Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was A Now, Cuba. I’ mean, i) The casinos were run -- A I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force during the war, I used to fly into Havana cn weekends and this type or thing. a I understand that. A It was a4 criminal element. Q The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana. A Right. Q Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime? A NO. Q Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli? A Oh, yes. 9) When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli? A Well, I guess it was -- it seems to me it was either Drew Pearson cr Jack Anderson had an article on him a number 32275516 Page 34 all the casinos and this type of thing. SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library Ln It was fairly weil known. t
tH Pione {Area 262) 544-G000 Cat ‘2 cn WARD & PAIL I Cl i om cn °2 « Watitinygtou, D.C. 20003 S.E no C2 A ALQ tarsi Sucet, Q3 w i i : } i i wo cn SECRET 33 of years ago. Q name? A Was that the first time you heard of the man's Yes, as I recall. Is that also true of Sam Giancana? No. I have heard <=nat name but I don't know where.. In connection with -= Not in connection with the Agency, no. In connection with the casinos or -— No. -- gambling interests in Cuba? No. You know of. no instance in which organized crime were used as consultants by the Agency? Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge of that whatsoever. 2 of that o} ood talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What othe types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's Cuba? Do you know type -- No. --~ who were interested in getting back into cuba? No. We were talking about economic war Fare. We have Photocopy. from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page 35 of anv offers of assistance from figures siecsamenet a { | } | | | |
SECRET 34 o " B ao: ; 3 ~ A Well, we used all-source information to find out what! g 2 3 . ; . £ & | his commercial dealings were. When we would see -~ well, for ~ Ki Sod, - . . . . 2 ‘ instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a source owned | 3 ' ; ! z a! . i. . ; - } by the General’ Services Administration, finally got back into. ; production and nickel, of course, and still is ~~ was in short éE __ oes es . supply. We had a French firm, Societe le Nickel, who was ‘ buving almost;the entire output of the Nicaro mines. And this © French firm ex ported to the United States. So we went to “ i the Treasury Department ana to the Foreign Assets Control an people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these ! +- 5 le-Nickel exports coming into the United States? So they looked a oo , | E ~< i into the thing and indeed they did. | < : : 2 to Q ° Who owned the mine? & aaa A The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it : ~< over. T° 9 I see. | aa _A General Services. Administration. And it was leased ; 26 out for operation. But the ownership rested with the 12- -# 2 «= Government. | d eC So the Treasury simply made the French provide a c 3 21. certificate of Origin for the nickel that went in -- they : icy : ‘ 3 22 export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives “ 2: . =~ oy + . ‘ 2 25 and «forks, this type of thing, and -~ you know, stainless 3 <4. steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply 7 25 i -- freasury simply said vou can't import any more into this Photocopy from SECR ET Gerald Ford Library BW 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page 36
a 2 Fs 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ; 12 2 By 8 13 fa} & = 14 15 16 17 18 | - 19 S 20. 8 21 3 22 : 23 Ff 3 24 3 25 HW 50955 Doclid SEE ~~ — 32275516 Page 37 SECRET ag country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel found other sources and export privileges to the United States were restored. | You know, it is -- you just -- any time you raise or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that simple. Q Were there any other instances that you can recall of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of American business firms? A I know we were in touch with a great many American business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could. MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) BY MR. MANFREDI: Q When we broke for a moment we were discussing other instances where the Agency has enlisted the support of America business.in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of any other such instances? A Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having an awful time with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. These boats. were powered waith;\Nordberg engines. We simply went to the Nordberg . é people and told them -- asked them to cooperate with us,which Photocopy from 5 EC RET | Gerald Ford Library | | ; | |
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 | Ld 12 13 WARD & PAUL L7 : 18 | 19 24 410 First Siteet, S.E., Washington, D.c. 20003 25 22° 235 20-4: | ' i i i SECRET ——- they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's representatives around the world if they got any orders from the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing. | We did the same thing with -- Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency? A No. Q Were they compensated for the loss of business involved in that activity? A No. No. Q I take it, you received similar cooperation from other companies. A Oh, a great many other companies, yes. Q Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in that manner? A No. Not a one. ~ 9 Were there any legal sanctions threatened against any companies? A No. No. @) Were there. any sanctions. that could have been brought to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with Cuba? A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with. Cuba. They couldn't get export Licenses from this country anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY $0955 Docld:32275516 Page 38
Phane (Area 202) 544-6006 WARD & PAUL D.C. 2060043 22 29 24 410 First Strect, S.E., Washington, 256 SECRET o Treasury Department you have the extra~territorialty clause in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot -- foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated countr And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried to twist their arm. Q Other than insuring that these companies refused to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were legally constrained from doing, what other types of support di you receive from American business? receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, they | A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would received it from Cuba asking for.publications and this type of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in ; some instances they might call me and I would just give them a Post Office box to send. the correspondence to. Q Any other types of support solicited or received by the Agency from American business? A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one firm we approached, and God knows we approached £ don't know how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough, that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the government wasn't really pushing Cuba the way it should, but SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY $0955 Docld:32275516 Page 39
o Qo oS 7 oO a i 4 Pel g 2 can) < 3 2 3 é 4 Fa Ne 9 8 9 ane) ii a 2 Le = < & "% Es) 13 a g < ~ aA 2 14 | 25 16 i? 16 nN a 13 fed Qo x GS 20 G 2 21 : 2 22 ul vi - PAS) v 2 a 3 24 rs Q 3 £5 HY 50955 Docld: ti \ it {i tt J 4 a i 4 \ | | | 4 | | | I i Hl ' ' outside of that, nothing. There wasn't any problem of coopera- tion. the Board Q A Q SECRET , There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary. Did you identify yourself as CIA -~- Yes. ~~ in dealings with these companies? Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even Chairman or the president. No problem at all. Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started but didn't really discuss that in any depth. What kind of paramilitary operations were run against Cuba by the CIA? I am A Q Q A Maritime operations. Is that the extent of it? That is the extent of it. Were there any aerial operations? Not to my knowledge. Leaflet drops? No. Bombing? No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far as concerned that is the only aerial activity. Q A That was run by another directorate, wasn't it? Yes. Aerial photography, and so forth. Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32275516 Page 40 |
SECRET ,0 Gerald Ford Library ¢ : * be requested and that is about it. : . | Q And those were run out of the United States? : ° A Oh, yes. Q Can you think of anything, any other type of para- ° military activity other than maritime operations. e A No. I really can't, no. a Q Am I correct that those operations were manned 6 by CIA contract employees? ae A Right. 10 Q WhiGh would include Cuban refugees. § th . a | Right. 5 | Q. ‘And some:CIA officers? : 13 | A Right. & i 5 i QO Any other branches of the services, Armed Services, “5 I involved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs. 16 | A Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to rememb iv that- probably down at our Domestic Training Station we 18 probably have people on-detail from other -- from the military ‘| . g 19 branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think .S ij : £0 that -~ of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also 2 | had people detailed into the Agency. z £2 | Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime W : £5 | operations, I take it, was conducted in part within.the E a4 | United States and in part outside of the United States. Is $ 25 | that correct? Photocopy from : SECRET HW 50955) Docld:32275518 Page 41
Ys bi Phone (Area 202) 044-6000 nw 1lé 13 WARD & PALL 14 4410 Fiest Street, S.0., Wastiigton, O.C. 20003 as) no SECRET e A I would think probably the major portion of it was conducted within the United States. Q The Keys would be considered within the United States. A Oh, yes. Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted outside the United States? A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done domestically. Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within this category of maritime operations? A Well, the infiltration. operations, infiltrating agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage raids. That is about the extent of it. - Q Now, when did. these operations commence? Was it shortly after the Bay of. Pigs?. A I would ~~ I think these operations were probably at their height during the period about 1963 through, say, 1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December 1968, something like that. Q Why was the program terminated? A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn‘t provid- ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't ~- economicaily, SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 42 3
SECRET a : * | it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were : ° | getting wrapped up. We were -~ we just felt that the return : ° | wasn't sufficient for what the investment was. ° * Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up. ° | A Yes. 6 Q ° What do you mean by that? ? | A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify e | him and capture him. 9 Q These various types of paramilitary operations that 40 were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the 14 Forty Committee? —_ 3 "| A Every operation received a specific approval from : ‘*] the Forty Committee. = . ; : 14 | Q In advance? 15 | | A In advance. 16 | Q Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- for initiating such an operation? Lé A Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil. 3 13 or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache: S : 20 - Q You are referring to a cache of arms. : al | A A cache. of anything, replay of radio, batteries, : a2 | whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have : £3 | one of these operations and the request would go from here : a4 | over to the,’ I guess to the White House and then the Forty ° 25 Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet very | SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Doclid: 32275516 Page 43
Phone (Area 202} 544-6000 do én LO Li lé WARD % PAUL 20 al 22 24 4140 First Street, S.E.. Washingion, D.C, 20003 aS) SECKE! 42 frequently -~ they would either approve the operation or say no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper phase for communications and this type of thing. And these things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military agency that had any“involvement whatsoever, and the entire thing was coordinated. Q Do you know of any such paramilitary operations that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee? A No. Q What kind of volume of operations are we talking about? A You are not talking about a very big volume of operations because of the Planning that had to go into these things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing they may be running three or four a month. No more than that. 9 You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having run 300 operations. A I have seen that. QO Is that inaccurate? A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He may have considered some of the training exercises as opera~ SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Doclid: 32275516 Page 44 |
Phone (Area 202} 544-6660 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.£., Washington, D.C. 26003 15 16 1? 19 20 21 £9 20 Docld: 14 | 24 | SECRET 3 tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go in: to see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore before you go. So he may have considered that all these train- ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici- pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba. Q Now, from what specific locations were these operations launched? A They were mostly launched from theKeys. Q Any other locations? A Not to my knowledge. Q Now, would you describe.for me the kind of hit and run sabotage operations that were conducted? A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against the Texaco refinery. _Q What used to be the Texaco refinery? A What used to be the Texaco refinery. MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery. We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was hot opy from SECRET Geraid Ford Library 322755168 Page 45
SECRET 44 ° E + | a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as : = | much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out é 5 | because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type i 4a | of operation that we did. 5 As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn 6 | some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we | ? | did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and 8 | exfiltrations. 9 | Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo? 10 A Not to my knowledge. Li Q Was it impractical to use the base there for -~ : Lé A. Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that ; 13 | I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him a. : 14 | back. He wouldn't walk. 15 | MR. MANFREDT : Off the record. 16 | (Discussion off the record.) 17 | - MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record. Le BY MR. MANFREDI: 3 19 | Q Are there any other categories of sabotage run out ; 20 | ofthe Keys other than what you have just described? : 21 A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage E 22 | kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained “ 23 | sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down 3 24 | crank cases. Things of this nature. : 28 | One of our main objects was te, of course, sabotage | SEC RET | Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Doecld:32275516 Page 46 enn YR PE PP A A A ee N8 .
SECRET 1s : * all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our ® own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We < ° | contracted with an American firm for that. And. we shipped Q i ° i | it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target. ° ; The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the 6 4 automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have everything at a standstill because in those days the automotiv 1o8) ~ ee §) See 9 equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because 10 ‘ Castro didn‘t hve the money to buy it and they weren't going ta . , “~ i extend the credit. 2 le The railroad system was in total disaster. The < i 2 13 i Seviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus Q : 3 14 . the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment ji 15 i because they were used to good American equipment. And these 16! were principal targets that we were trying to get to. 1? i . 9 In your experience at the Agency can you think of is " any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run 2 19. £rom a base in the United States? 0 20.5 A No. ° E 8 el i , Q I know there has been some paramilitary training 2 ee | in the United States. a] ao < a5 | A Oh, ves. a z 24 | Q In connection with other operations. Photocopy from | SECRET | Gerald Ford Library HW 509355 Docld:32275518 Page 47 | t | 25 | A Oh, sure. i
Phone {Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAIL 41G First Sivect, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 HW 50955 16 il le 13 20. al 22 Docld: SECRET 46 Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that were actually run out of the United States? A No. Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique - situation. A As far as I am concerned, it is, yes. me) Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as the third largest Navy in the Caribbean. A That is right. Q What kind of equipment did these people have? A Well, we had. -- honestly, everything from a canoe up. to three -to 500 foot mother ship. We had Boston whalers, rubber boats. We-had a number of craft in, say,.the 27 to 45 foot. length. And they looked like real tubs. They were painted and they looked like they wouldn't even float but they. had: the fastest-engines in them. They could outrun any~ thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under~ water demolition teams. We had a pretty good .Navy. Q . Did these craft operate under non-official cover in the Miami area? A Yes. Q Were there a variety of covers or was there one firm? A No. Variety. Photocopy from SEC RET . Gerald Ford Library 322755168 Page 48
SECRET ” if he got some time off. Photocopy from SEC RET ; Gerald Ford Library : * me] Fishing companies? a A Well, fishing companies, Geodetic Survey, marine : ° | supply. In all, I think during the period that the station 9 il . * and these other entities were under commercial cover, or non- | ° : official cover, I think we had 100 so cover companies. | 6 i 9 Did any of these companies actually engage in any | , legitimate commercial activities? | & A Not to my knowledge, no. 9 . Q None of them -- were any of them in competition vit | aa firms in that area? | | A These are probably what we would call devised 3 12 | facilities. They were probably registered with the State of : 13 Florida and they paid taxes and this type of thing, but if one & i 3 Me was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of a existence and started up a new one. 16 | Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running i” these operations? 1a | A Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as 3 19 I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that 2 i} : 20 | contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent : el | under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys. ; Be | Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He : RO | came back -~ he might come back once a month,.or something = : 24 | jike that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks 3 Pas) | HW 50955) Docld:32275518 Page 49
| SECKET 3 i E + | Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were E | actually stationed full-time in the Keys. < ° | A Oh, yes. Oh, sure. 2 . * * | Q Were there any operations run out of the United S | States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of 6 | sugar or anything of that sort? ‘ ? A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the} uerto Rican thing? 9 A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind. | l 10 | Would you describe that for me? | :| A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of 3 12 opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar | ; 13}. to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to t 5 14 | it but I know that it gota hole below the waterline, or LE something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs. 16 | In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the L7 | drydock or wherever it was, they. had to remove the sugar and f 18 | put it in the warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came 3 19 | up with a plan to try to widen the rift between ~~ there was 20 | a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to | 2 ei put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it : £2 acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the w Z £2 | individual, and some of this was done. . And then when it : 24 leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar 3 25 firm buy it back from the Soviets. 7 photocopy from ; | SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955) Docld:32275518 Page 40
SECRET ts SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library | : ~ | Q Bought it back from the Soviets? : aa A Yes. : ° MR. MANFREDI: ofe the record. é 4 i (Discussion off the record.) 9 } MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record. | ~ ; BY MR. MANFREDI: ? | Q Are there any other operations in which crops were 8 | ~~ were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba? 9 | A No. No. 10 | Q Place foreign substances in Cuban products? | it | A In Cuban products? 2 te Q Yes. < ; | A No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in 5 14 those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel .| 25 The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total, | 16 chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have | i? anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.| a There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around 3 * with this big plan -- of course, there were a number of 3 5 20 experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there. 3 el I forget -- several other European and American companies that 3 22 || had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment— Wi | : ao | ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing. 3 24 | Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to : £9 Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and -- so he just put it | HY 50955 BDocld: 32275516 Page 51
Pnone (Ares 202) 544-6000 Ne] 1c - il 12 i: WARD & PALE 19 : 20 23 £4 410 First Street, S.E., Washinglon, 0.0, 20003 HW 509545 Docld: 13 | 21 | 22 : Cuba. of thing. this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A i Q A | @ian't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade in Cuban matters? I | you really call stations because here again, they are not | SECKET 50 on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type So he was helping us all along the line and type of. thing. But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we i and cut off his sources of supply. | When was the Miami Station established? As a station? | Yes. I think in September 1961. And that was several years before you became involved Yes. Do you know of any other facilities of that nature within the United States, Agency facilities? You mean, targeted against the opposition? Yes. A station as such? Yes. No. You have some communications facilities that SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 4 1 32275516 Page 52
SECRET 51 | q HI 8 i S 1 4 directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of : : g 2 || overseas communications. é o | Q Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and 2 i . z 4 | Office of Security officers, and so forth. 5 : A Right. | 6 i Q But I am talking about actual stations. % ! A Operating stations, no. ! 8 f Q This is the only such station in the United States | i i Ii : “ 9 | as far as you know, is that correct? | 19 | A Right. | 1 ue : . . . 22 | Q And was this station established to deal primarily | 5 12 I with Cuban activities? 2 | s 13 | A Yes. ! 2 | | & ' < 14 | -Q Cuban-related matters? rt } il 15 ! A With Cuba, period. 16 i Q Did it have, when it was established, any other | if ' 17 F responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities? 18 ji A Not to my knowledge. i 19 } Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities? a 20 | A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other vu | a . 5 21 | countries in the Hemisphere. E | Q When you joined the group dealing with Cuban 2 22 f “i 93 Il activities, what was the size or the number of personnel 4 54 | attached to that Station? = 25 A To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a couple | SEC RET Photocopy from | \ Gerald Ford Library HW 50955) Docld:32275518 Page 33
SECRET - couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the | $ 1 | a 2 . a | Agency, plus I don't know how many contract employees, : ° | independent contractors, probably another. 200 minimum. It was | obviously the largest installation we had. I think at its i 5 a | | height it had over 500 people in it. | | 6 | Q Full-time Agency people? } A ? A No, no. | 6 | 9 Combination of contract and -- | 9 1 A And fuli-time, yes. A regular employee we call a stadt 10 | employee. | ii Q Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract | | 5 te people? | £ | i" 1s A Yes. < 3 14 | Q Even though he was located down in the Keys? i 15 A Oh, yes. 16 re) And what kind of facilities did the Station have in i” | Miami? Physical facilities. } Lé A Well, they were located on the south campus of the 19 University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at a0. the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained a1 unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn ne well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the 410 First Strzet, S.E., Washinglon, O.C. 20003 23 Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force. a4 | Q official cover? | , 25 || A No. Non~official. photocopy from | ord Library | Gerald F | SECRET HW 50955) Docld:32275518 Page 54
Pnone (Area 202} 544-6600 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.£., Wasnington, 0.C. 20003 HW 50955 10 “qi 12 18 19 20 a1 a2 29 25 . for. yours ostensible customers, establishing bank accounts. SEVNEI 53 | one was called Zenith Corporation and it was set up with a President and Vice President, normal corporate setup. Q Engaging in any business? A No, Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community, how long could a non-official cover last? A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research activities. Funded -~- it-:is a giant mechanism when you put one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing, | | | | | | | Q ‘Yes, I understand. | i A So it was a research activity and the only people thak ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And.out of this. oné: thing, of course, then we were running these innumera- ble-6ther~covers with different activities. The guard force, of course, were like -- well, they wore uniforms, simila to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think that there was -- in the later days at that site I think the ~ Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other Government agencies, in other buildings, of course. | SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library Docld:32275518 Page 55
Phone (Arca 202) 544-6000 & PAUL WARD 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 26003 HW 50955 pes CH 19 | 20 ed Ze £O 24 25 Docld: SECKEE | 54 | Q And this particular Station, then, was under the supervision of the group we have been discussing? A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations. Q When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume responsibilities for the Miami Station? A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western Fan per pe eree n Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division. ee a Q When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions were being performed by the Miami Station? A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. I positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this type of thing. Covert action. Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in | think I have lined them out at:one time ---collection of the deposition? Photocopy from A Yes. . Gerald Ford Library SECRET 322755168 Page 36
Phone (Area 202} 544-6000 10 li le WARD & PAUL oa tx 18 19 el 22 29 24 410 First Stizet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 200u3 z£9 HY 50955 Bocld 20. DSECKET 55 Q Which of these activities, if any of them were actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami? | A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably counterintelligence. | | Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence | activities in the Miami area? Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter- A Yes, sir. intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting | in that area or was conducting in the area at that time? | SECRET Gerald Ford Library PROTOCOpy Irom 132275518 Page 57
nd fis Ses FEES | 56 5 6 ? 8 9 10 a Q Were there many activities of that type? | ; i 2 | | A Not really. You have got to remember that the | 2 13 | Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large < i : o squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some- | 29 thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of ; 16 hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega~ 17 ‘tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from <= La | in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts 3 19 | which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting : 20 | to Case Officers and they would report on things in the : 21 | community, of people they thought were suspect and this type : ee | of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau : . and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved : 2 | in CI activity. : = | Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI | SEC RET | Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 58
Phone {Area 202} 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 19 20 21 22 410 First Street, SEL, Washington, O.C. 20003 SECRET - activities in that area was primarily a function of the over- whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability to properly staff the thing? A ‘Yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a lot of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the FBI overseas is known as Legal Attaches, obviously working out of the Embassy the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a relationship there that had gone over a period of years between the Agency and the Bureau. MR.MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock. (Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of- the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this same day.) Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library SECRET HW 50955) Docld:32275518 Page 49
TCO LENN ING SINS it 1 : . SECRET : 58 flg mbh g 8 1 t Tt ie) q 2 e 3 _ 4 5 e ) . é 4 5 6 ” 8 g LO Ll ; 12 = t a Fo 13 fa Ha : 14 16 aw 16 1? 18 - 19 Qa lan} G 20 | a 3 22 ui * 23 a fy r 24 x 2 z 26 HY 50955 Deoctlid: AFTERNOON SESSION Thereupon, WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on CIA ' Aetivities, and having been first dulv sworn by the Notary i Public, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSTON (Cont'd) BY MR. MANFREDI: 0. When we recessed for lunch you were talking about the Miami Station . Do f£ understand that the Miami Station was the largest CIA station in the world? t Hi | | | A. The largest CIA station in the.world. i | | 0. At its heiqht? | A Nothing comes anvnlace close to it. | 0, I wonder if vou could describe briefly for the record what the AMOTS were. A Well, the AiOTS were Cuban a Cuban intelligence overall contingency plan that US Government had. Should Castro Cuba and form a new Ministry of the Interior. Q. Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism for Security Agency? L a, Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and. f | Phot y from SECRET = hotocopy trom 322755168 Page 60 ever be overthrown, these people would be the nucleus to go into organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the
Pione (Area 202} 544-6000 WARD & PAUL. A nd fon “oes TE °7 And these people were Cuban exiles? Cuban exiles. How large an outfit were the AMOTS? Well, at one time -- If can give vou the exact figures i but I know it well exceeded[ | probably closer to -- | | a Go ahead. A, Probably closer something like that. | 0 Now, would that[ __|persons be included within the who made up the Miami Station? . | A No. | 0, That was over and above the personnel of the Miami Station? A, Right. These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev? j | é Right, | 5 20., a j $ 21 ul : 23 | 3 24 | 2 26 a HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 61
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.£., Washington, O.C. 20003 19: HY 50955 Docld: ~ . aad fhe Soe BREE 0 A That is right, 0. And was training provided.them bv the Agencv? 0. Oh, ves. | A You said the smaller group of the two groups that made up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct? A. Right. | 0. When vou speak of interrogations, are you referring tol debriefings? ! | A I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles | er perhaps exiles that had heen in the country whom during thein } time here had acquired new information. | 0. How were those -=- how and where were those =—e conducted? A Well, normaliv the debriefings were conducted at! | td Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into. small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, sit them down, under controlled conditions,and debrief them without anv interference and this type of thing, 0, For how lonq a period did these debriefings go on? SECRET [ Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32275518 Fage 62
Prone (Area 202} 544-6066 cn WARD & PAUL bY Cr % fe S10 First Sircet, $.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 ra) no nm cn HY 50955 Docld: i 0. ‘Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came } ° a fee oe BR Ee ‘ A. You mean in terms of vears? : 0 Yes. tt ; A Well, I would think that I would probably say from : about 1962, and I think the debriefings as such, of course -- ; we relied principally on the airlift for the people coming out and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -= cut off i about, I quess about 19709 or '71, in that timeframe -~ " . 0. I see, | ‘i A. -~- that stopped the flow of the refugees, SO we just | terminated that part of the activity. | | i in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any = | | | intelligence gathering functions -- A, No. 0 In the community? ~ A. Well, I can't give vou a real ves or no-to that. I would suppose that there is'an’ outside possibility they could have been used to debrief people within the community, within the Cuban community, but we had in the organization -- all thes people were Cuban’ with the exception of we had what we call an : On-Site Case Officer, who was a fulltime: staff-emplovee and he had a couple of assistants; including a secretarv. These people were directiv under his-control: Though the organization as it | was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing, but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case artical. | s E CRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library | 32275516 Page 63
3 . 3 1 g 3 2 2 a 3 é 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll ; 12 2 < é 13 Q 3 14 15 16 17 18 - 19 Q g 3 20 c 3 21 $ 22 a} : 23 3 24 ¢ 25 HY 50955 Docld: bo SECRET 62 Of course, if these people went out and did something on 4 their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviously. | You can't -- you know what they are doing during their eight or { ten hours that thev are going to work evervday but once they | leave, we don't know what they are up to. ; 0 Did they have CIA credentials? / A No sir,! | j i 0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these people other than in their duties -- in their debriefing | capacitv, I should sav? | A No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a | standard debriefing form that covered questions cf intelligence interest or a battle, you know, anvthing -= economic questions, | morale, and this type of thing. When these questions -- when. | these people were cebriefed and the. debriefer wrote up the | report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over. to the Station. If the debriefing report contained something of positive intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot down some additional requirements and.ask that that person be recontacted and asked specific. questions. smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in. the Miami area? | | : toe . . : . | Q Now, in addition to'debriefing, what else did this 1 . , A. This was their prime purpose. Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald ford Library 32275516 Page 64
3 a 3 1 Ld T no a 2 foo] Cd cr a lag o 2 3 a 4 WARD & PAUL tH oO S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 raw fs 416 First Siizel, HW 50955 DBoecld SEGRE EL 63 How large was that particular group? Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside, I think there were about five debriefers with the support people types. 0. A A t i | | 0. ¢ | i } { St } if IG | MR, | 1 | : resettling Cuban emigres? | t don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15 yj in that qroup, if there were that many. MANFREDI: Off the record. (Off the record discussion) BY MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record. Before we move on to further discussion of the AMOTS could. you briefly describe for.mé what role the CIA plays in CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emiqres, What Agency is charged with that responsibility? Health, Education and Welfare, Noes CIA plav anv role in that process? We may assist if we are asked but the idea of the who airlift was having relatives here. for somebodv to claim you whe you came in so vou wouldn't become a ward of the State of the overnment, and normally when these refugees came in, they were | processed through the Center and then they had a place down on | | Biscavne Boulevard thev called Freedom House and this was, of course, all run by HEW, and they -- if need be and thev had to stay overnight or stav several davs, HEW would put them up and | i | care for them in Freedom House. Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 2322735516 Page 65 which would he secretaries, translators, strictly administrative |
ad is Ge ORE E 64 2 | : ; H 8 1 Then as soon as they could, of course, they-would move them $ , = .2 | to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where the 3 5 relatives were, this tvpe of thing, and we had nothing to do 2 - dl . E 4 | with that whatsoever. i 5 6 a 8 | 9 10 | t il 4 Le 3 { i | 2 13 | $ 14 | i 15 | 0 Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged | in? rey “9 A, WE11, the larger group was engaged in the collection 18 | of intelligence. Shey compiled dossiers on the principals 19 | inside Cuba. They carded -- they kept card files on every 2 9 | g 20 |} refugee that came throuch the reception center. They provided -- : 2 they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a 8 1 s 29 | monthly newsletter based on the information they collected. 3 52 | The information these people collected as opposed to the 3 24 | ' 3 =< || came from ~~ all the information they had came from human sources Z Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library | information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That } { HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 66
i EWE f 65 | | or overt publications. We subscribed ! i for} Q = 1 | g il a great manv newspapers, periodicals, 5 2 | : a | Spanish language type things. i 3 2 | 0 Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well, | weren't thev? r 5 | A. I doen't know if you could call it clandestine. What 6 | i did you have in mind? 7 | | Q Well, would they run agents in the community? | 8 | ; A. Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban i | 9 | ; i community, ves. Lo | | . ; , . . 0 And that is clandestine collection, isn't it? | ii] A. WELL, I call that human resources. z aa 0. All right. Where are these files now? a | i" 13 | A, They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of | : 14 | - 3 i them were really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. We | 15 | went down there several vears ago just looking through the files a ; 16 | to see what kind of shape thev were in and they had such great | i | +? | information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a ' 18 | gat who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won | 3 19} a swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those & e £0. files and took out that material, you know, which just didn't Z “1 | have any pertinancy at all. j E 22 J iF 23 FA 3 24 2 = 25 SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library ia HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 67
| SECKET 00 8 3 J ¢ 7 n -_ is MN re 2 m™ ir] 2 4 t fe Qo c Q & 4 q oT : : : . y il 0. Now, is there any wav to determine from those files 8 which of these exiles have hecome United States citizens? i ee ——, SECRET [ Photocopy from [ Gerald Ford Library ewer oO { a A No way. — | 9 Y 10 Q Has there been any effort to make such a determina- | 1 tion? 12 A. We made an effort at one time but this -=- you can | al 2 i 2 13) become nationalized out in California and vour record of a i | 9 l < 12 | nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for 2 = i 25 two years. That is how far thev are behind. a 26 | 0. So I take it =~ 7! A So there is no central index vou can go to. I mean, | 12 \ there is a central index vou can go to but it.is.not current. 19 | 0 I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the e 20 CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langlev on Cubans who oO . a ar ¢ a | are now American citizens? Qa 5 | A. Absolutely true. cS Re | 23 | 0. Now, are any of those files likely to contain 3 34 | derogatory information about the individuals.involved? ° A, Well, no. | | 7 20 | | HY 50955 Doclid: 32275516 Page 68
- SECKET = 67 3 8 1 8 2 5 6 7 8 g 1G it 4 12 2 = F 13 9 H T 15 i 0, Well, the .AMOTS were going to be the intelligence . | service of Cuba? sn i A. Right. 18 : Q, And they obviously were going to perform some functio 19 | in addition to recruitment of agents? 3 i 8 A. Right. 3 20 . : 21 | 0. I take it they were trained in counterintelligence, : 29 | gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the ad fe 4 5% traditional skills, is that correct? 5 AL That is about right. x 24 . 3 95 0. So I trust that they had files that were amassed for | t D . SEC RET Photocopy from | Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 69
Phone {Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL Viosbngloa, 0.42. 20003 $.t., ret, 410 Farst St HY 50955 Docld: ~~ a on Sas BE eB 68 purposes other than recruitment? A. ))06=« Well -=- 0, For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible internal securitv problem? A. No. No. Thev didn't Keep those types of files. We would simply task them with through your sources what do vou have on so and so. Thev would not be told the reason why we wanted the information on anvbodv. | Q Well, = quess | lit is difficult to 1 make generalizations about the kind of information that is in those files? A Well, that is right. . | ) So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to wed vou this. I trust thet there is the possibility that some of | these files do contain what vou in the trade refer to as deroga+ tory information? A I would assume so. 0. And that so much of them may -- some of the subjects of those files mav now be American citizens? A Right. 0. And finally I take it that no effort has been made to studv that particular situation? A WELL, we did make an effort to do it at one time. i ; Phot from SECRET "gerald Ford library 32275516 Page 78
| SECRET 69 o 3 1 a 2 iat] & 3 & 4 9) 6 q 8 9 10 0. Excuse me, off the record. 11 (Off the record discussion) i2 | MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record. a 4 2 . gq BY MR. MANFREDI: a 13 | | 6 < ia] 0, I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind © | +5 | where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are +0 | t 16 presently here in Washington? 7 | A The cards and what is left of the files. 18 | Q. That is the soft cover files? A Yes. 0 19 | 2 , And -< J 20 | 0 o 21 A. I assume they are either here or down at the § é Records Center. z 22 4 0% 0. And where is the computer system? 5 24 A You mean our machine system? We have -- : “| 0. The machine here that you tried to match up with the SECRET | “Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page Ti
Phone (Aren 202) $44-6000 nwo il 12 13 “WARD & PAULL 18 19 ‘20 419 First Siucet, S.E., Washingion, O.C. 26003 HY 50955 Docld: *~ a Ha Ss BK EH ” information on the cards? | A Right down on the third floor. | 0. That is not the hvdroe system? A, Oh, no, no. l i 0. This is a separate -- I i This is a complete -- onlv the Latin American Division wre uses this particular system. 0. What kind of records -- ¢trike that. The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thev? A. No. | Nn T thought they were going out in June. | AL Well, okav., Thev are on the hooks until June. | 0. I see. | A. But they have all been let go. They were let go ~~ | . : . : | they were all given six months termination honuses and told to go find a joh. 0, ‘Do they have any facilities, physical facilities, in Miami at this time? | . A nO. 0. So there are no records in Miami? No. No. We broudht all those records back here. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities in “the Miami community? A No. No. j ‘ Photoc f | | SECRET Gerald Ford Library | } tate | ® ' Anv affiliation with law enforcement groups? [ i] 32275516 Page fT?
i SEGKEL eo g 1 A. Hot to mv knowledge. < i ; 2 Q. What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that : 5 ! was not doing debriefings? | 5 6 v4 8 9 1 Lj 2 La i a 1d 7 1¢ 4 1é * 19 g 20 | 0, What intelligence gathering activities did thev G : "| conduct in the Cuban community in Miami? a | ‘ i 29 | A one. of the big problems we had was within that Cuban 4 og | community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti- : na | castro groups and this just: drove the FBI and the Coast Guard | : 25 | ana Customs and in qeneral the law enforcement US. Government | ° . , ! | SECRET comurcenron, | HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 73
ad Ee “es RES fe 3 1 | agencies in Miami plus’ the State government enforcement agencies - ; 2 je the wall and, of course, I guess it was around -~ the : 5 | covernnent allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess E A | about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they 5 started to tighten up. 6 I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing 6 alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when 8 there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these | 3 ; militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked | row by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau, : a this type of thing. | ie | 0 These people were arrested? | : 3! A. Oh, ves. | a t 4 0. Prosecuted? ; 2 14. . ai A, Not really. el 0. Anv of them American citizens? C; on | A. Not to my knowledge. . 0. This would be Alpha 66 type groups? | Lo 19 A I don't know whether this guy ~-- well, you know, they | : ne - are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don! c 9 know if they ever did get him in jail but thev had him up on 2 1 : 20 ‘ so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here. z | . W 23 He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever : 24 served any time or not I don't know. . I .know he was convicted : 25 ; but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. 50 ° a | | , ’ Phot f : SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Doecld: 32275516 Page T4
a SECRET ° s 1 * I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went = 2 - to jaul or not. Ff i ; : 5 " 0. Other than identifying operations by militant anti- ~ ij j 3 4 - Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS 5 engage in? 6 A Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence -- 5 I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence. interest B at that time because we knew that thev were infiltrating agents.) Q ® ° Cubans were? | : I 10 | A The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well | 0 . | ll on the. airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and 12: young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't < 13307 well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did trv to a o | ia} < rv identify those people whom we thought would be suspect. ve Q Was that done in cooperation with the. Bureau? ~ av 16 ‘ A. With the Bureau, ves. 1" . 0. Because of their manpower limitations you folks were 4 in a better position to do it? 1S: ‘ A Yes, and lanquage-wise, too. That is always a big z 19 g i factor. ° i Q. And this was conducted through the AMOTS? = i A 0 «Yes. 3 22" ! " a How substantial was the counterintelligence operation < 28 : 2 ; in the community? z 24 . 3 A, WEL1, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I | + 29 [ Photocopy f SE C RET oo Gerald Fo rd Library HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page T4
Phone (Area 202) 544-6006 WARD & PAUL $10 First Strset, S.£., Washington, B.C. 20003 HW 50955 Oo <9) el) 22) 23! 24) £5, a cad) lie Sons BE HE would call a great. number of suspect infiltrees, but thev did | come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens to it because, vou know, vou just -~- unless you personally know the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, vou might as well forget it. You have qot too many other things to do. 0, What other positive intelligence gathering activities were they engaging in? electronic intercept. 0% Where was that done? . \ A Down in Florda,, ne | UA Yes. 0. What ere they intercepting? A. Well, originally they were set up to assist with the | | | A. Well, as I told vou, one part of them were engaged in | | | ! | | commo. for the infiltration. As we phased down the maritime activities, they were made available to intercept Cuban communications, — | ; Photocopy from | SECRET ' Gerald Ford Library Docld:32275518 Page 76
Cc oS 8 i S 2 i 3 z 4 5 6 ? 8 9 16 li 12 3 x , 12 2 ie 3 14 16 7 16 . 19 , 20 ‘a 3 21 5 22 Fr 3 24 c 3 25 HY 50955 Docld: _ a Ee ee RE § ~ ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently ! | Now, Since they helong to us we could levy ceratin require | because the common interests, -~ we have a common interest in | | MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. | (Off the record discussion) MR. MANFREDI: Let's qo back on the record. : “BY MR. MANFREDI: | 8, Were the Communications~ they were intercepting exclusively foreign communications? 0 Were thev intercepting any communications, one terminus of which was the United States? A. No, | | A Exclusively foreign communications. 0. These were basicallv Cuban Government ‘communications? . SECRET 4 Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32275518 Fage 77?
Prane (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.c. 26003 WW 50955 24 25 SEUKE! ro Right. On the Island? Right. Or between the Island and other locations? Yes. But not between the Island. and the United States? No. Let's go off the record on that. (Off the record discussion) BY MR. MANFREDI: 0, To vour knowledge were the sAMOTS engaging in the intercept of any communications, either that facility or else- where, in the Miami area or in the southern part of the country? A. No. 0. Of other communications? A. No. 0. Is that their only ,intercept. facility? A (Nods affirmative) : 0 Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- strike that. Do you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances, breakins or activities of thqt tvpe other than what we have discussed -= No sir. ~~ that were conducted by the AMOTS? No sir. I want to go off the record a minute. (Off the record discussion) BY Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library Docld:32275518 Page 78 i
SECRET ! z 1 { BY MR. MANFREDI: ¢ i 5 . 0. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS N & 2 . cl } 3 _ | has been prepared by one of vour members. z 3 | ; 2 H . . E i A. That is right. ae a : 0. What is his name? | 5 4 | i . ‘6 ! A. Eo think it is} | I can't remember the last | ' : if ; ‘name, The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just have | 7 i | to get that for you. i 0 What is the title of the study? | i A. The title of the studv -- it is part of the historical) LO | | series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The 11 i || AMOT Organization.” F f 0. What is the historical series of the Miami Station? | z 13 | , , Q f A -~.It was done when was down there. What z ., i 2 L4 ij - i we try to do as we go along, from vear to vear, is set aside TER Hi 15 i what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things | the station might do or that might occur in the station personnell- LPs ; wise, this type of thing, and then these things are written. 18 | i 0. I see. © 19 ii 3 d A. At intervening periods of time. G i 0. When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS? 3 | A. I think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68. 3 BE Il . i i 0, It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it? si zit 2 235 i . 2 A. Yes. va] Z 24 o 0. And purports to be a fairly complete historv of the = \ | SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Doclid: 32275516 Page 79
Phone {Ares 202) 944-0000 WARD A PAUL .C. 2000-5 Wastingliat, Sabread, Sil., 4b tara HW 50955 Docld: SECKET "8 activities of the AMOTS? | ! | : | 0, IT would like to see that document. And we will try and obtain it through Hank Knoche's office. | A, Okav. 0 Excuse me just for a minute. {Off the record. discussion) BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if vou would -- let me ask vou j | MR. MANFREPI: On the record. | this. There have heen some allegations in the press that prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents of the CIA. us because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the thing had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn the examination over to him for whatever time he needs. , Photoc f SEC RET | Gerald Ford Library 32275518 Page 80 A. It starts back in 1959 when we first started using this gent.. 0. First started using what? | | A. First started using, I forget what his name was. | | 0. I see. Is it a chronological study of their activi- : | | | ties? | : A Yes. | 0. And you have a conv of that in your custody? | j Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join
a Cl = a 3 7 Tz ° ~ ow 2 o 3 5 x = 2 (o>) on ~2 wo WAKO & PAUL t-3 it~? fs + Hn cit fs ~2 oD fe 20005 ¥] i tr Se] Pa) nN Wiisbitgkoi, i.e, Cd FLO bt Steen, VEL, HW 50955 Docld: ning su Ee es OG Ee 2 MR, OLSEN: Thank vou, ‘eorge. BY MR, OLSEN: 0, Can vou begin, since I have not been in on the begin- + of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts, by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your > contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere withing this countrv on benalf of the Agency? A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff ' | which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in a variety of intelligence collection and operations. Dick 0. Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff? A. Desmond Fitzgerald. And who was his immediate superior? a) A hick Bissell. fxcuse me. No. At that time it was Helms. He was the DEP. 0. Neputv Director for Plans? A, Depruty Director for Plans. ) What period of time are we talking about now? A, “Me are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965. MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. (Off the record discussion) BY MR. OLSEN: Q So vou were not involved in this Special Activities S Group during the 1959 to "Sl period? Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 32275516 Page 61
Pod c S ad < a ~ isd 3 Ce 3 2 ft = 2 é PAGEL WARE? & OOO. +. Whastiregtess, (3 al PUtr bets tase, & be WW 50955 and iw) Cet q> cst the same time that =. Howard Hunt vas involved in it? Neo Fy a i | NO. | | And vou were not involved in this proqram at all during i NOs Do vou know what «he vosition was Mr. Hunt occupied in): connection with the Cuban operations of the Agencv during the : period OF sO t2 on +o mH oon } te C4 3 oO fay) Cl re we gn Ot . Aetion 4, of 1959 to 'Si? ; o my recollection, Noward Hunt was on the Covert 4 Start dealing in provaganda. Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in this country? that. mm area? ‘61? No. Cuban people aproad. And what~-was hls connection with the planning for the . Pigs? I would have to review the record to really answer I don't know. Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami He commuted quite a bit. Between Washington and -~ Washington and Miami. ~= and Miami. During the period of 1969 and early Right. “Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in his SECRET Photocopy from 7 Gerald Ford Library ny -+ Docld:32275518 Page 82
é 1 2 ~ 3 n =~ c & 2 Ce 7 2 ~ z o 2 3 = & 5 6 7 8 ) ao —_h — i 2) : Le 3 < Fe Le 2 z < =. 8 Le ws — 1é i? 1é 19 “4 1% o co] & 3 20 c Fd z 22 4 = 23 2 2 an 3 7 25 published materials that he was the person who was in charge of organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall where A, files relating in any wav *o the Cuban operations and particu- that was? oa? ee BO ie 8 That could be auite true. Have vou reviewed, Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire larly with reference to wnether thev reflect anv contacts between the Aqency and Prank Sturqis? Yes. 5 Or Frank Fiorini? There is no relationship. Is it vour testimony that the records and files of the Agency reveal no official or unofficiai contact of any nature ee] 0. with Frank Sturgis? To mv knowledce chat is true. I take it from that that vou are emphatic in your testimony that he was never an emplovee of the Agency? A he was A fe} Extremely emphatic. And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that never a contract agent of the Agency? Exactly. Doe vou know whether he ever served in the capacity of being an informer or informant to the Agency? A. HY 50955 DBocld: 32275516 It is possible that he could have been a source. SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library Page 63 | |
cd > 7 fo] t 3S ~ = A & 2 cd a ba gq Pw 2 3 g ra Eg ws ry f 8 a 2 ae A: 79 a aed < * 7 4 Lé a 4 ary 2 Lt 14 7 me lé 19 mn ig 2 o S & - G 2c . c 3 2] z ss 3 3 . 2 ge vi - : Dz - ~ 2 at a 3 24 7 25 HW 50955 Docld Sag? Gime “es A, fen Fi ‘ a YOu mean a source of -- at | A Source of information of another aqent. Another agencv agent. being a matter of record. mo h t La To my knowledge, nothing. indirectly bv the Aqency? A, To mv knowledge, no. to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that you are giving us the full benefit of vour knowledge on the ‘ ever in which Frank Sturcis vas ever asked mal Noe the files of the Agency reflect anv matter? Bs To my knowledae I aon't recall anvthing like that but it is entirely possible that chat could have happened without Do the files of the Agency reveal anv instance what- : kind of an cperation or activity on behalf of the Agencv? O, Do the files of the Agencv reveal any evidence whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or 4, Now, when vou sav "to mv knowledqe, no”, in answer basis of a full review of the Agencv's records and files? can vou tell us when that beaan in 1963? > SECRET :32275518 Page 64 \, On Frank Sturgis, ves. ] a Okav. During the veriod of time that vou were with i the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all, x When the Special Activities Group -- No. When vour contact with the Special Activities Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library to undertake anv. tor ereae Pda eats rreeery
= S 2 t t a nN > 4 z Fag x 3 = WAKE & PAUL 20003 « Washringion, OC. 2 Sub EDGE arsd Sater, on an “2 i> fo Cr} H Ch Hh ~O Ot a3 He no on aay tn “tes 2 tie Bl Group began? A, It began -- well, it beqan around June of '63, 0. Now, with particuiar reference to the last half of 1963, including whatever veriod in June 'f3 mav not have been involved, were there a creat manv. Cubans in the southern United States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being sponsored by the Agency? A Wellm vou mean Acencv sponsored fronts? 0 Yes. A The Agencv subsicized these-fronts in an effort to have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro factions. Obviously the leaders-of the fronts knew that the x CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these fronts did not know thev were being subsidized by the Agency or the U.S. Government. 0. But when vou sav "supposedly," does the fact appear to he otherwise? “a, WELL, based on mv sxperience with the Cubans and this type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that it wouldn't take long for xnowledqe of any subsidy to surface itself. 0 Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr. Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be involved in the CIA orqanizations? A Yes. Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library SECRET HY 50955 BDocld: 32275516 Page 65
“% cit <c S iS) 3 = z ” a 3 4 3 2 4 2 3 z cn 3 Is } a a WARD & PAKS. tf bo CH de wk wae iy 0, And again with varticular reference to the Miami area? ° A. Yes. mer Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere in the United States? tf an asking now particularly with reference to New Orleans. A. There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am really not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was sort of a sideshow to Miami, 0 But the same is == it is possible that some of the samé Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans? A. I don't know if = can answer that, whether thev had the same functions. = know that some funding arrangement for subsidizing the ornanizations in Miami was carried out through New Orleans. Q Well, can vou he more specific ahout what vou mean by that? + Washingien, O.C. 200g § Dau fase Siees, SE ct SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Doecld: 32275516 Page 66
2 S 2 ? ¢ 2 nN 5 7) or) 2 t 2 fe a _ 3 a 4 i 3 _. “Ro Hof to mv knowleddce. ce 0 How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with $ . the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance!. ia) ee j = to Cubans or Cuban groups? 3 ant A IT couldn't sav. = am just not familiar with -- we had} 2 ae 1 _, @ great many people that did this. Fr a How about Clav Shaw? Was Clav Shaw ever used as a * 24 3 funding source? , = a5 - SECRET HY 50955 Doclid: 32275516 Page 6&7 Photocopy from: Gerald Ford Library 5 i i if i
s S Log 7 a 23 2 oy 3 = < WARD & PAWL 2GODs,  Woatitmergtoo, O €. VAG tee Gee, Ge fo ND Cat a) oy a3 w. fo Crk Ch Hh nD /) te at tw Crk fae) ae ay) oH HW 50955 Docld aa? Gm eas BX Ee @ x 4 This I do not know either. 0, Pardon? A This I don't know. BY MR, MANFREDI: 0 Where would shat A Well, we have a Gown in New Orleans at tha information be available? ‘uv that used to work with me who was t time. He would probably know. a Is he in the nuildina? . A Yas. , al What is his name? Q A, Yes. BY MR. OLSEN: a, who is| ieh now? Which department? A He is still with the DDO. BY MR. MANFREDI: a Western Hemisphere Division? A No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -- I think Career Management Group Staff. &® - Is he officed near vou? A Wo. He is cown in the basement. BY MR. OLSEN: :32275518 Page 686 Sec 4 a Photocopy from’ Gerald Ford Library
Ww nat Phone (4srea 202) $44-b000) €>1 Oe 03) ~ OD r to H Crt WAKO & PAUR I Ch an tcp 20005 a3 Oo Moatdibagboes, te a. ray) fs aS) no s, aw, 1) Merced, ra) ro ALG Ud wD cn HW 50955 Docld: na tlie est fhm 6 A No. No. Tetally unfamiliar with anything that took . llace in New Orleans. 0. I take it chat Frank Sturgis was never an intermediary so the Cuban fronts? Tohave don't reflect it. we covered this but let me make sure that we have dot it on the record. T understood vou to sav that that larqe numbers of Cuban United States, talked about in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? A. That is riqht. 0. Was 12 also vour understanding and vour impression that there was a dood deal of talk among this Cuban element in the southern United States about plans or vrospects for the assassination of Fidel Castro? I would sav no. don't think there was -- you have They lost got to remember that these people were embittered. their homeland, % all on one man. SECRET blamed it Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32275516 Page 69 their »ossessions, they lost everything and they already cust a few minutes aga i i t j ; | t it was vour impression in 1963 and believed that they were involved i : t } t exiles, Cuban people in the southern
Pire (Arca DU) ots O00 WAT A PAUL 2OUG4 slanstyiesen, £2 Ol. Wea tbr, Gb, ct re WW 50955 dt nw Cl CH os Ch} se] ey) t-4 jet Cv t i? OH te I “2 4 } t (ep) f-4 wu) nM aD to al hn ab oy Cot Doclid: sate ! a hn Ton THs : O, That is Fiedl Castrc? A. That is right, and they would probably verbally do anything thev could to get rid of him. 0, Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among these Cubans? A I would savy amona the Cuban exiles there probablv was . a lot of talk about that. 0. Did vou participate vourself in the overhearing of such conversations? A. Wo. . 0. Was this a matter of something that was reported to you? : A . Well, it was -- I really don't remember what the source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the Station and from mv visits down there and that type of thing that this subject alwavs came up. What were they going to do with Fidel? How are thev aqoing to get rid of him and this type of thing. If don't mean the Agency people. This is what the Cuban exile community was discussing. ® | Yes. No vou knew what Howard Hunt was doing for the | Agency in 1963? A Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in ‘63 and I think he was assigned to the Furopean Division of the DDP. ay This is vour hest ‘recollection -- Photocopy from F SECRET Gerald Ford Library 322755168 Page 90
= ~ cs 5s > ° Fy = < fey) Cy * “I WAR tk PAL }—- (33 fe se) JOO eu) Oo nh jr ay) nN oy Wastirogbeak, G5, teed, rw {Al ray) & ee beR OD dink uate, HW 50955 Docld 2. Rey thm Get BA then & Yes. -- at the moment. Is it possible that he was with Domestic Operations Division in the field of proprietaries engaged -- 9. abouts on A. (Off THE i guess vou are right, ves. I believe he was there. Did vou personally know Howard Hunt? No. Mever mer him? iomet him. That is all. I can't sav I know him. You would not save known anvthina about his where=- any particular aav, then. Is that true? Can we qo off the record? +he record discussion.) WITNESS: het's go back on the record, BY MR. OLSEN: I would like to have it on the record. No you have a narticular day? MT “Yo. I am just asking vou if vour acquanitance with Hunt was such that vou would have known of his whereabouts on anv particular dav. 0. . a7 iO . Was Lt very infrequently that you ever saw him? Oh, I would see nim in the halls, this type of thing, but -= bump into him nerhans downtown on the street. Sut vou would have no occasion for. knowing from one SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 132275518 Page 91
Wiwtet2 & PAUL 2GUES VoSteacngbare, @9 02, Le, bbl, VLG Eo sant HY 50955 Pihuie {Area 202) 624-6008) Oh Ch Ni one on too a) o£ the Agency as to where he was on November ?2, 1963? aa? the Maa Eth @ to the next where he was? A NO. 0. Have you ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf A, Yes. a And when did «ou conduct that inquiry? A. tT have done it twice that I recall and the most recent was I guess -= I am just trying to think. Well, it wasn't to long ago hecause ve did have an inquiry and we obtained the: i t ! .. i] time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which \ -- | showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day. eo il Q. Was this just fairliv recently? aaa -3 A, Yes. _ 7 q, I understood from what files I have seen, Mr. : _. i Sturbitts, that the cniv records that were available from the omen) . t -o ., | Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave -> i : ! _. | during the two-week vay veriod ending the 23rd of November but | i _. . that the records were not svailable as to how much sick leave | Eu ; i ; _ a i or annual leave had been taken on anv particular dav. | i? i ° | 7 A. Well --. - 20 jj | 0 Am I mistaken? . ee if | A, As I recall. he was in a duty status one dav and a ee _ t I . H _ | sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day. ; i XY would have to check that with mv Budget and Fiscal Officer. Zs 4 : i He is the chan that cot that for me... 25 Docld: 322755186 Photocopy from SECRET | Gerald Ford Library i Page 92
og? thn “et Gh tn 8 ‘ 2 1 9, Can vou check that for us? = 2 A Sure. 5 2 3 5 0. And give us the results of that? E A A, Yes. ° | rs 0, Because this is much more detailed information than; 5 I have been previoulvy aware is available in the files of the ” Agency. | | B a. All right. I will do that. | ; i 9 BY MR, MANFREDT: ; ic Q, Do vou want to make a note of that? a! t 1 A. Let me have a niece of paper. - ; 12 al YOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts‘’ phone number which | 4 { iz 3s sy | : ve THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right? | 3 14 _ BY MR. MANFREDI: | Lo <4 a That is the day. ! a A, 1963. | _ 0. in response to whose inquiry was that investigation Lc . made? | m i 3 30 AL I don't know. I would have to look that up, too. | & 20 . : ay Gone recall exactly whe asked for it. I don't know whether -- | i op Twill just have to check that. I don't know who it was. FS w -_ a And the date? Do vou have anv idea when vou made the | 3 ad | 3 — inquiry? | 2 ; A. No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefully} 7 25 ! | SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 93
E 1 : 0. You said there was a previous inquiry? % g 2: A Yes. The previous inquiry came fromnl & , : : 3 who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of : 4 ' European Division. 5 | 9. When was that inquirv received? 6: A. That was about a vear ago, I guess, y | .- BY MR. OLSEN: 8 0, About the first time these photographs began to be 5 circulated? uc : A Yes. ws 0 About the bums in Pallas? ; le A, Yes, and actually I think this -- bnquiry rm i 12 came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe, [| kas : +s Chigtyof station,| zor a long time and he apparently rs 1& : i -5 ' Made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media. | +6 0 This is somethina vou are relating to Der Sterm | 1 ; Maqazine? | _ A That is right. | Lo 14: 0. And did I understand vou to sav that in checking with : 50: the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that | 3 21 Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd? | 5 we ; i 28 A Well, I will have to check that. That is the way 4 23 I understood it but I did cet this through our Budget people who 5 24 have the contact with the Office of Finance. | : 25 | a, And that he was on annual leave the day before? | is x ! ! | Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Doecld:32275516 Page 94
8 = | A. No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick z i : a i . 3 g | leave, and then on duty status the following day. > : = | BY MR. MANFREDI: = ? G il : = | z 2 0. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's = previous pattern with respect to sick days had oceen? Pa A, (Nods in negative) yd BY MR. OLSEN: a a | 2. November 22, 1963, was a Fridav. When you say that i . g ; records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day -~ vail A, It was a Tridav. Then I was mistaken. a i Q Does that mean ne was on duty the following Monday ~am il +5 | Or on the next dav, Saturday? i “4 < | - . : . : _2 3 a No. On the following Mondav. I didn't realize the a de a i . 2 .. | 22nd was a Fridav. 2 a: _.: a Will vou check that thing for us-and give us a brief .. | memo together with whatever supporting -= copies of supporting — documents vou can find? _. A Okay. oo! 0. As promptiyv as possible on this question. 2 a7 ; s I think that covers the subject matter. é " a = AR. MANPREDI: TIT. can cive vou another moment if you want. > oT a Ce oatee Z | Can vou think of anvthine else? 2 Ze: : r _. MR. OLSEN: I think that is all. | ao ' ; 3 i ' MR, MANFREDI: Okav. Off the record, 3 _| (OFF the record discussion) 7 £5 |i ‘HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 95 Say BRE SEE GI th en | Photocopy fr ms SECRET Gerald Ford Library
S 7 a a) Phone (Ara 25 Watt a PALL 20003 4 Westeagiun, D.€. Sliced, SL VE dese HW 50955 2 BY Mr, MANFREDI: a I think probably 0), Ioam sorry For Saved the interruption but over’ the long YOu _ some tima Cal Bard Cr. de ! Cty oh he “1? aw) ao ra) “ (a a3 i raw) t N3 Cv Docld:32275518 Page 96 Photocopy from SECR EF Gerald Ford Library
folos asl 68) Phone {Ares 202) 544-6600 Col mh on ~J 3 ! « _. a te i 8 ‘| 2 i i tH Mm =) ee) Wastiaghon, D.C. 20003 410 Varst Strat, S.E., to tn Ne talked with ‘ir.Olsen for a short period of time about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these organizations? Photocopy from SECRET ‘Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 DoclId: 32275518 Page 97
mbh 2 8 re 3 ii z i A Well, the membership varied. As I Said, we were a} a N ,  ovincipally interested in the ieadershis of the organizations. @ i g j Once the organization was established and the leadership took over, then they would take care of enlisting the, I guess, getting membershis from the Cuban exile community to join. 6 . oe ; : 2 What were their functions, the fronts? 7 : A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaoti thing of the splinter groups and get ~- as I said, it was a4 9 toe as , ; political organization in exile. 19 ") Did they conduct any operations? 11 A No, not that I know of. 4 12 ii a a 3 i Q Just like a political vsarty? bi é 1Z 3 . a O b A Like a volitical party. & * “* Q How many of these fronts were there? aa A There were several of them. I really don't remember ~€ the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary “7 Democratic Front. = guess that was probably the biggest -one. oe And there were some others. m 19 ope . 3 1 2 The RDF? 3 4 - F) aa Q I see 3 ii = ae A Pront Revolutionary Democratic. It is the Ww 1 3 “4 Democratic Revolutionary Front. @ 4 : = 9 All right. Are these groups still in existence? ao i 2 i 3 25 | ~ Slee: i A to would zhink not. I really don't. know. i SECRET mo ; Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 98 96
mbh 3 Phone (Area 202) $44-6000 WARD & PAUL Washington, O.C. 20003 S$.€., 4160 Fiest Sirees, k Cr #> cn OO I st jo d }-2 i3@) a) Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico? A do. There was but there isn't any more. There hasn't been one there for vears. fo) When was it disbanded? A I think the station was established around 1958 and ~~ perhaps it was established before that. I think it went out of existence in 1958. ) Do you Xnow wnov it went out of existence? 4 No, 2 ton‘t. = don't have any idea. 2) Do vou xnow wnat function it was verforming? A (Jods in negative.) 9 You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked in the Cuban community for the CIA? 4 9 Was he serftorming any intelligence function in the community? A Intellicence functions. Well -- Pp) Was ne collecting information? A Sure. If he got information that ne thought was worthwhile he would 2ass it on. me) Now, would he have been considered one of the three or §00 »~ersons emmploved or assigned to the Miami Station? aA Yes. He was a contract employee. 9 And were intelligence requirements levied on such contract emplovees? Photocopy from SE CRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 BDocld: 32275516 Page 99
I~ Cri o S o 4 v <6 wy N i) Cs 3 z Ss 2 z rs ] Cot i af WARD & PAUL. r4 on Hn kr “7 | m oo tO a S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 nN to Tat tw i 910 t ast Stecet, tn a3 A or they ad che business oi Cuban communities A a) you think were at Normally, hoc type things that surfaced. rh QQ is) Right. NOW, not discussed in we have A ilo, 0 zr eves and @ars inte A Right. Q And thev which was A vise that A their headquarters, did they not? Exactly. And there facility. Yes. Now, what The AMOTS existence -~ fe Leo oth HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 100 eA oe wena TALK not really. gy Gap TES See the requirements are pretty standard, time. lecting intelligence in in Miami. we finished with any cther functions performed the course of the Ho. I think vou voreviously described the Cuban community. actually had a physicai was a CIA Case Officer contract employees were, rormation who managed But here again, you always have pop up from time to time, and have to then, in in the the AMOTS but can by the AMOTS that afternoon? them for me facility in Miami has nappened to -the AMOTS? were craduaily phased down and will go che AMOTS are out of existence, aren't AMDUKES or ~- these are the radio. people. SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library as the i t fy to super- i
re “ on 3 2 3 3 te v > Pel 5 2 >] Me = x = wv = 4 o>) g ane: a bai : 12 < Z 1z 16 i 7 1é 19 = 20 3 21 23 24 PIO baad Sircek, GA, mo oP Bes Tat OG, Be 8 99 ) And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS? A The AMDUKES are AMOTS but they are radio people. By Yes. The only reason we use two different names is that in ach cr these things in those cays we had to have a project which nad to be renewed every vear to get the funding. ty Re So AMDUKE and AMOT -- Synonymous. ~~ are crvptonyms? Do the initials stand for anything other than -- No. Just pick them out. If you vant to encrypt somebody you just cail downstairs and they give you a erypt. You don't nave anything to do with it. hat particular time to be the Cuban diograph. The AM happened nn SECRET HW 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 101 photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
SERRE! 100 h g i Z 1 v gs a s 2 N a 3 - Ka 5 g = 4 5 6 ~ j ; oon | 2 Were these people on whom name traces were requested i all foreign nationals? 8 | <n: : BN All foreign nationals. 1 a Was there any check made to determine whether 1¢ ! - . wae 5 : any of them were American cltizens: ‘| A “de levied on the Secret Service as a requirement 5 that they have identified these people by nationality before : ~~ F we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time oY il : 14 | 3 ‘ they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizen 15 i : v ; 3 ~ | which we promptly sent Sack to them and told them we coulc 16 | ~ i not trace. ~f i aq And this practice was followed both in 1968 and 1¢ 1972? 2 19 A That is right. 3 | | N H i u 20 | e) And where were these names traced? 2 | 2 ! = ‘ ‘ : 3 el A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The = ae Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check . ; “ 23 | 3 | nere. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station hada S Ro more information on the Cubans than we would have back here. = ° . « a ? 25 3 But the names were traced through Agency files? | I re : | | SEC RET Photocopy from | Gerald Ford Library, HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 1602
sph 7 Pome (Ares 202) 544-6000 ae) > WAHTD & PAUL SH cH t on f~? Ov j—! ~? 20003 Wastnngtas, 9.0. 22 23 24 ALG fart Streci, SEL, aug? tie Ss OS Ee 101 A Through Agency files. 9 Yas Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI on this as well? A Oh, ves. 9 And in effect,they were getting an all-Agency name check -- A Right. : Q -- on people who might pose a security threat -- A Yes. Q oe to a candidate? A ell, they were just trving to determine who might be a security threat. Q That is right. Potential threat. wa Yes. iS) For what political parties -- strike that. In 1968 was this service srovided for both political conventions? itical conventions. rm A Both £6} po Q Were they both held in Miami that year? A No. I guess it was in 1972 they were both held think it was just, the Democratic in 1968. ct = ie) La) (3) ee ) These requests did come from the Secret Service rather than -- A From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for . Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 103
° 3 2 e bd vv Oe] ~ N co] MM os e < = Q é = a WARD & PAUL eel, SEL, Washington, D.C. 20003 41G First Sty Ws on ee. | —_=——— support. 2 Do you still maintain the records with respect <o that tracin activity? 1g ¥ A I have all the names that have been traced, ) And they are on little cards down in your files? A Yes, 9 Why nave those records been maintained? Is there any reason those records rave seen maintained? A “ell, because ve were told to maintain them when tne Watercate thing broke. 2 I see, A And since then nobody will destroy anything. 2 OK. Are you aware of any Dicketing at various Slaces in the country that has been conducted by Cuban A i waS not aware of it until ft was told of it, Iostill don't know whether this was a spontaneous action on the part of these people or whether they were instructed to do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable to, 3 At what locations has it been reported that pickets were located? place. I forget where it was, 2} Have you in faer been able to verify that these Persons were Cubans? Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 104 3 Airline offices in New York, Miami. I think another
2 é 3 F 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll ; 12 3 Z- 3 13 a 3 14 15 16 17 18 . ‘19 G 20 8 g 21 3 22 : 23 > 25 I i oD theo Yen BM Bes B A Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history that this indeed did take stlace. ‘low, what I have been trying to determine is whether the On~Site Case Officer authorized this,whicn I fully doubt. 2) “Tho was the On-Site Case Officer?. BN At that time it was a fellow by the name or Tony Sforza. 9 Ts he still alive? A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know whether this was a unilateral action on tne part of the AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with Cuba, notably Spain anda Creat Britain and France. 9 Other than this incident which we -- strike that. What kind of an investigation have you conducted? a I have talked to people, which is really all you can do. There is no other way vou can do it. 2) vou have been unable to determine who, lf anyone, authorized this activity? ave you been able to identify any of the persons who participated in the picketing? A No. Q With what frequency did this activity occur? A I don't have any idea. I only know of one instance. 9 This was in New York CLtv? A New York City and Miami. Do you Know of anv organized political activity that SEC RET | Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library ind HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 105
Crd 2 03 2? zt gz a = a 2 oa 3 a co = 2 = = WARD & PAUL ed CA 16 L? 18 19 20 al 23 24 FG Fisst Stecet, 5.£., Wasningten, O.C. 200038 HY 50955 Docld:32275515 Page 22 104 the AMOTS engaged in? A To my knowledge, they didn't engage in any. Q Any political activity. Do you Know of any other activities that they have conducted within this country, they or any of their members have conducted within this country that we have not already discussed this afternoon? . A No. 9 Any volitical activities? Any orerations? By No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain select individuals to what we call hand-nold defectors, Cuban defectors. In other words, live with them until they are resettled and this type of thing. And this they engaged in. But other than that, I can’t think of anv- thing else. ¢ Q Do vou know of any criminal activities that have been attribited to -~- A . I have neard of some allegations which have never been proven. ; a) What are the allegations? A The alleqations concern break-ins and surveillances and this type of thing. ~ 2 Have those ailleqations been made with any fre- cuency ? 7 Well, = forget who it was. It was during the SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 106 ne 4 | | | is another activitts &
i 2 | 3 7: i - Watergate trial. Some of these allegations that came out ~ 3 i . , . . 8 “| and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we ¢ ae made file checks and this type of thing. One particular E 4 + os : : . os : - * * i activity was supnosed to nave been carried out in Rockefeller , j Center in New York and it turns out it was taken out of i 6 || —_ ' context. It was a training MLSSlon and -- training exercise, i 3 : g 7 These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York 8 and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Manhatta g ~~ Chase Manhattan and <2 come back out and then they were 1G | Supposed to diagram the lLevout of the bank. And this toe some 11 | of them meant casing the bank when in fact it was just 2a | 4 12 | memory exercise. a 2 | a 13 | q with what frequency were those kinds of training 5 . x | , < A . = - 3 14 | exercises conduct2d? i 15 | A Nell, whenever there was an -~ whenever it was fel+ | 16} that these people, selecred individuals, were to be trained { - iz | in trade craft. H q 18 | } and did their <=rade craft training include such ii , . : ” 19 | wnindgs as survéillance? 8 3 20 | A Sure. 3 21: 2 And break-ins? = | = 22 | A 70. Not sreak-ins, Nor surreptitious entry. As i 2 25 | Said, in the case of this varticular thing, it was misinter- 2 : . 3 2a | Dretec as casing the hank. These exercises were given -~ they ° i . + 25 | could have walked into veur ortfice, vour outer office and H HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 107 i . | SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 1
wo Prone {Area 202) 544-6000 Crl ay WARD & PAUL el eo [ii dm Crt te ch ae 29 24 $10 First Street, §.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 20 i sea? le . es BO Bs 8 106 said -- the instructor could have said two hours later teil . f me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it? his is just for observation. 9 You stated earlier none of those allegations have been oroven. Have any of them been proved to your satisfaction? A No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction. 9 I take it vou do not believe they took place other than the training exercise? A Oh, no. to. I don’t believe they did. Q Do you know of any instances where members of that group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry in this country? a NO. + Have you ever been present at any discussions of the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the Miami Station within this country? A Legality? No. a) Yow about the propriety? A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up. Mo one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or the propriety of having the Station. 2 There have been some allegations in the press and elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of that community, by the CIA. Are vou aware of those? a ad SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford tibrary HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 106
‘oh 13 Phone (Area 202) 344-6000 WARD & PALE Washington, D.C. 20003 20 24 410 bist Street, S.E., 25 HY 50955 DBocld: 22 : ad) Tin es T%, Ee 8 | 107 A MO. bam | : : 2 Je received some correscondence and I have seen some | i I oo, . articles that suqagest that the Cuban community is sort of | . { | ! 1 a resource that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various! operations in this country. x You mean this country? . a) Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some/| other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any knowledge cse by the CIA cf Cuban nationals or exiles for any type rh fe) of operation within tnis country? A No. -) Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided any financial support for Cuban businessmen in. this country? . * No. Not to my knowledge. p) Other than the maintenance of cover? a Mo. | 2 Sstablisnment of businesses? i ; j A NO. i 5 No? | ! . . | 4 MO. H 3 in the course of our discussions today we discussed che; AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various colitical front groups, revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre, i} ! Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supported 7 by the Agency, either financially or otherwise? SEC R ET | Photocopy from | Gerald Ford Library 32275516 Page 109
108 °o ° 3 A Wot to my knowledce. v vT a . ‘ . . ~ 4 . 5 3 2 | 2) Are vou familiar with the appendix that was attached ko] N i 8 ; 5 5 | to Mr. Colby?s statement? E af A Yes. | | 5 | Q Did you have some role in drafting that? I RN You mean the Miami Station thing? ~ 7 | 9 Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station". . | 3 | A Yes. | 9 | 0 You wrote it? | ~ . | aN Yes. i 20 | 11 | is) It has a familiar ring about it. There are referenc¢ 12 to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are a 13 | there any others other than the ones we have been discussing? | c i é i A Not to my xnowledge. “here are, you know, if vou 3 14 | ° “ ‘ a | want, to. call.it an organization, we did, vou know, subsidize ate 16 | the-nell¥out of Juanita Castro. A i 1 H 1 i 2 Yes, I am familiar with that. abe t 18 | A rou aré familiar with all that and that is by the | board now, too. _ 19 | 2 2 ow ' s 9 She was. doing -- ~- 3 20 8 5 2 A Propaganda. § 2 -- propaqanda broadcasts. . 3 22 - ar A Yes. | 3 3 t 3 a4 g : 25 | | SE re RET PRotacopy from | Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 110
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2 ° 3 v4 Bd g a a =) a aq uv g q 2 S = = WARO & PaUL 410 First Siegel, 5S.E., Washinglon, 0.c. 20003 i Cri Hd 19 20 2l ae Commission for vour cooperation. SECRET Lil 2 Nell, = nave no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts. ae If vou have anything vou would like to add you are welcome to do so. xX No, I have nothing. m) f want to thank vou on behalf of myself and the Photocopy from SECRET : | Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page 113
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