169 i u t ty | Commission. . . ‘| ; Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. - i ye ) ve We will make an effort to obtain these materials it ' i i : and to review them. it 4 x | "Do you know whether -~ a . wa oot . . . . Hy _ he Mr. Rocca. That is absolutely -- I find it absolutely ~ impossible to believe that this was not among the papers | = 4 | o a . = i that were given to you, and I would want to assemble my ” ‘i i J 3 I - i troops and damn well ask them about it. i = fao4 ; : = Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether the Agency had = i any penetration agents in the Cuban Embassy in 1963? 1 Mr. Rocca. In Mexico City? Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. AUTEDING , a ei oa ! Mr.- Rocca. I do not know that. S | Mr. Goldsmith. Let's refer to CIA number 1977. = 464 ~ : Please read paragraph number 5. : _ - Mr. Rocca. Uh-huh. = : This is Ambassador Mann. | ! i = is } = + Mr. Goldsmith. That's Ambassador Thomas Mann? : Mr. Rocca. Uh-huh. ! ; Tok . eS Mr. Goldsmith. Now, CIA number 1977 is part of a ee ' peed IZ | @ vos | cable that was written, in effect, by Ambassador Mann. i Paragraph five indicates that Ambassador Mann wanted | ze | Luisa.Calderon arrested. as j i Do you know why Ambassador Mann wanted Luisa Calderon ; : CONFIDENTIAL ALRERSON FBEPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld:32263409 Page 171
arrested? Q oO 2 ty Hi oO res “i Le] Hi Wed te Mr. Rocca. Because of the implications of her 170 The intercept So, | i the, i { | | | ' | 4 i | i Le 4 i i i i 3 involvement, possible involvement, as a consequence of the @ 4 intercept, I would assume. It's 27 November. w t 5 a had taken place on the 23rd, the afternoon of the 23rd. e | The Dorticos thing had been on the 24th or the 25th. ~ i = ‘| only basis that they would have had for any such action _ li : 7 would have been those materials. They had them in the field.) : za Mr. Goldsmith. What about Azcue? = oe Mr. Rocca. He was presumably present and had the : nw altercation. | a | Mr. Goldsmith. Why would that be a basis for arresting @ z 3 the man? : 7 Mr. Rocca. To find out what he knew about it. : e The general tenor of this suggestion was pretty much : is | (scarehead) anyway, so you immediately arrest anybody that “ a had any possible relationship to the man who did the killing | : ‘| is the way I would have interpreted it. = - So, they are all related -- in other words, co-related, 5 7 in the documentary materials which had been assembled by i Se that time. @ ye ane Mr. Goldsmith. Let's take a recess briefly. f Would you like a 10 | (A brief recess was Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. DoclId: 322763409 Page 172 minute break or so? taken.) Rocca, are you generally familiar i i
CONFIDENTIAL ; 171 , with the allegations that were made after the assassination by the Nicaraguan named Alverado? de { | 1 . Mr. Rocca. It's one of the cases that I wrote up in | the memorandum I think I gave to Belin. i i i | | i = ca ; ~ Mr. Goldsmith. Would you summarize generally for the oF record what the allegation was? = c > : ' a / ; : a ; Mr. Rocca. I think my summary probably wouldn't be E “i worth the paper it's written on. i . i : 3 i : i But, in essence, Alverado walked in the Embassy on < f ~ 103 S | Christmas. Day or something and said that he had been in the S it : Siti . = f Cuban Embassy or in the courtyard and had seen a red-headed | e ‘6 t Negro pass money to a young man he identified or who in his e F oia | = | view was Oswald. £ Hi Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. =, | ' eG The gist of the allegation was essentially that = 1g | . = | Alverado saw -- ao i Mr. Rocca. The money was $5,000 or something. = i Mr. Goldsmith. -- a Cuban, a red-headed Latin American : | = oi = iH pass money to Oswald at the Cuban Consulate and that there = 20 | | . . , “ i was some discussion which could have pertained to a possible ; ce ' assassination. ~ ' Does that strike you as a fair summary of the gist i of the allegation, without going.through the entire record? Zs i Mr. Rocca. Well, yes. Ww ia F He was discredited, of course, as a source eventually, { CONFIDENTIAL Docld:32263409 Page 173 ALBERSON RESORTING COMEBANY. INC.
SMD RS by the polygraph. 2 Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. | l ; { e : | When were these allegations by Alverado resolved by | . 7 the Agency? : E | Mr. Rocca. I judge some time in February, March, ! ! i i 8 7 or April. I cannot recall exactly when, but they are a part | & 7 | of the record, certainly. | ; : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Were the allegations by Alverado : ; | resolved at such time as he took the polygraph and failed it? = oe Mr. Rocca. My feeling was that everyone regarded this = Hl as the best thing since Pepsi Cola until that happened. | 3 2 And then it just went down the drain. | ® = 1g Mr. Goldsmith. Let me give you a document, CIA number, : 7 2099, dated 10 December, 1963, which is the summary of the ! 2 a Alverado polygraph test that had been given to him. | = i = ey Would you please briefly skim through these three “ ir | pages. z 8 | Mr. Rocca. Please recall that I have not read this = | document at all, earlier. : = 20 | Mr. Goldsmith. This is the first time you are | ; { | “" 7 seeing it? | . . . Mr. Rocca. This will be my first reading. 1 oa Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. an (Pause) 25 3 Mr. Rocca. Yes? , DocId:32263409 Page 174 ALGERSOM RESCRTING COMPANY, INC.
CONFIDENTIAL 172 -A Mr. Goldsmith. According to that polygraph result, * | Alverado aia not pass the polygraph, and after being told : © ; | that he did not pass the exam, he essentially said, "The : | machine doesn't lie." | = | Is that a fair statement? 2 7 Mr. Rocca. That's correct. 2 = - il S / Mr. Goldsmith. Is it fair to say or appropriate ! : Z to say that based upon that, the Alverado allegation had been : a7 resolved, so far as the Agency was concerned -- if you know? | ~ oa 2 a Mr. Rocca. I do not know. : | Mr. Goldsmith. At the time that you were involved in| x @ : ? | the Agency's investigation for the Warren Commission, at the | : e time that you were involved in providing information to the : : an Warren Commission for the Agency, was the Alverado issue a a = es still a live one? : a Mr. Rocca. I believe so -- and it continued alive : : 7 | until. sometime after this date. That is my recollection.. | ; a That is, into January of 1964. = = I can't account for this thing here (indicating) | ” 2 | because it is definitive, and that time lapse that I recall. , an But it certainly continued and there were people on the | Als VAS vey bo Commission who were interested in the Alverado who were i dealing with people in Mr. Whitten's group on the details of the case, is my recollection, and continued. Mr. Goldsmith. So, even though Alverado had failed CONFIDENTIAL ft Docld: 32263409 Paiye 175 . ALDER SOM SEPORTING COMPANY, INC.