, 300 7TH STREET, S.W, REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 29024 (202) $54-2345 rm) Docld: 322762402 Page 23 the memorandum that you have on the salary strucutre or the memorandum on the probably estimate of cost for the next two years. Incidentally, I do ‘not expect “to come back to you with any additional budget changes or any additional personnel changes. I would ask that in this context that the Committee authorize up to seven percent merit increases for people afte they have been here a year to be handled on a case by case basis. Mr. Devine. Mr. Chairman, I don't want to deal in numbers and I will assume that the numbers are accurate and equitable as prepared on the memorandum. Mr. Blakey. ‘There is a resolution. Mr. Devine. Yes, I merely want to say I agree with you, Mr. Blakey, on the manner in which you have approached this. You know all members of Congress are faced with the same thing as far as their own staff is concerned. Each one handles it differently. This particular Congressman signed the sheet that we are not. authorizing seven percent increase for anybody, and then I took a sheet and had the Finance Office advise me how mich of a raise last year a person got | t | and what date that was and then adjusted the salaries upwards .to what I thought was equitable and zounded it off rather than going to the 2.52percent; you run into peculiar figures. i So I think some of: them did get an equal percent, many | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 25
—_ 2 3 4 = § T % 6 wa s 7 & 4g e = 39 as z 10 & g 2 1 = 2 = 12 ry =z = 13 vat im a 14 RR - 4 ~~ s 1s 2 ts 2 16 = a 47 $ . 18 ad n = 19 ~ = 20 | 21 23 26 25 | | | | | | Docld: 322762402 Page 24 of them less than that, because they had had a raise in the interim period. I think that your approach is businesslike and warranted and I agree with it. Mr. McKinney. It pains me to disagree with our counsel and my friend here on the right. I find it, as one of the few Congressmen who sponsored the Equal Rights for Congressional &mployees reolution, that one of the worst worms in the Capital building is the salary structure and I would have to say, Mr. Chairman, as the ranking member of the District Committee and the ranking member of the Economic Stabilization Subcom- — mittee, running my own office, that I have a firm policy that people are being paid what they are being paid because they are worth it, and if there is a comparability pay increase or cost of living increase or whatever you want to call it, that they get it across the board. If they don't get it they ‘shouldn't be in the damn office to start with because they were not worth what they were getting. Mr. Devine. If you raise someone effective July lst do you think they are entitled to seven percent on top of that? That is not comparable. Mr. McKinney. I am assuming we are stressing campara- | bility. I stress merit. I don't raise anyone unless I think they have merit. I will give you per example. I raised my secretary because I think I am about to give her a nervous breakdown after one sommer not being here and she ran the ALDCERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 26
2 3 4 z 5 a t = nr -} Ss 7 x 8 € ~™ a 9 a + = 10 oe & eu nan. <. = 12 rt = 13 S 5 2 14 Ki & & 15 2 fod 2 1g = “ow & a = 19 ~ = 20 21 23 24 28 , | 25 office and did everything and I raised her on August lst,. and I am going to give her the 7.5. I think she deserved the raise in merit to what I raised her to and I think she deserves the 7.5., I suppose we could be heroic about this and say we are saving money, but I know who works for me and works well should get the same increase. I would have to vote against the motion, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. Mr. Fithian. Mr. Fithian. No questions. The Chairman. Mr. Sawyer. Mr. Sawyer. I may say I concur with the gentleman from Co-necticut, I did the same thing for substantially the same reasons. . One question I had because I still am a neophyte at this Congressional financing method. | . Mr. McKinney. You will never. figure that out. Mr. Sawyer. Can we carry forward this $400,000 from this eyar's buget to next or. get zeroed out? I am not totally . under -- Mr. McKinney. Zéroed. Mr. Blakey. We will lose it but we will be in the posi- tion of going back to the Rules Committee and saying we con- templated $5 million over two years, we gave you back quota- tion marks "$450,000 the first year, we would like to use that $450,000 the second year, so that our two year budget ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 322762402 Page 27
10 iW 300 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) §54-2345 ee ee aR aN NT a nn a a ea a DT A a na SS Docld: 322762402 Page 2765 26 would be $5 million. “They could very well look us in the eye and say you can have the second year which you spent the first year. Mr. McKinney. That is exactly what they will do. Mr. Devine. Asa member of the Accounts Subcommittee of the House Administration we face thesé these things every year and it is ordinary. for everyone to come in and say we turned this much back’, therefore we should get it and it usually works. Mr. HicKinney. I was going to say that I usually let most of my money’ for. the city, I go down on. the last day of the fiscal year and tell them what they hadn't spent, so they are in such a hurry to spend “= The Chairman. Okay, if there is nothing furhter, the Chair will entertain a motion pursuant to the recomendation of. the staff director: Mr. Dodd. I would so move the resolution as proposed. -The Chairman. It has been properly moved that the > resolution he adopted. . The Clerk will call the roll. The Clerk. Mr. Stokes. Mr. Stokes. aye. “he Clerk. Mr. Devine. Mr. Devine. Aye. the Clerk. Mr. Preyer. (No response): — ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
wet — —_s -—, tod an aw & oO Nn — Q om a | ~~ 0 ww ao Ce ~ oh Re 300 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 (202) S54-2345 r=) id tw 23 24 : i Docld: 322762402 Page a5 1 2 | 6 , | | | | | | ; The The (No The (No The (No The The (No The The (No The The 27 Clerk. Mr. McKinney. McKinney. No. Chairman. Mr. Fauntroy. — . response) Clerk. Mr, Thone. ‘response) . 7 Clerk. Mrs. Burke. response) Clerk. Mr. Sawyer. Sawyer. Aye. Clerk. Mr. Dodd. Dodd. Aye. Clerk. Mr. Ford. response) Clerk. Mr. Fithian. Fithian. Aye. Clerk. Mr. Edgar. response) Clerk. Five ayes, one nay. Chairman. The motion is adopted. ‘Blakey. ‘Mr. Blakey. Mr. Chairman, we have in the last several months taken statements under oath from-a number of people in connection with coming to the Committee to give help -- | | te help us out, testimony of one kind or another, particularly, 29 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
12 13 14 1S 16 30n 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 29024 (202) SS54-2345 —s SSS pe een ee oe er ce ee pe ee ee ee reenter tea a EN Ot Oe Et A A no ee ee SSS SSS 28 for example, the panels that have come in, the doctors that have come in, the ballistic éxperts that have come in. To complete the formal cycle it is necessary to formally present those affidavits to the: Committee for acceptance and I would do. that. at this time. You have before you a list of affic davits taken from Mr. McMillan, Gear, Kosten, Kostman, Shaw, Meagher, Thompson, Hoch, Scott, Harris, Kinsilla and Lane. As you can see, I wauld ask that the affidavigs be incorporated: in the record. | The Chairman. Okay, without objection the affidavits will be incorporated in the record at this. point. (The above referred to affidavits follow) ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Doctld: 32262402 Page 30 ,
12 13 14 1S 300 77H STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) $54-2345 = SG © @o@ ~~ & w = 20 21 2 Docld: 322762402 Page 29 Mr. Blakey. As you can see, most of them are formal in character and simplified. Mr. Dodd. Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. Mr. : Dodd. Mr. Dodd. What is the legal significance of incorporat- ing these in the record. These now go that next step? Mr. Blakey. Well, actually, the legal significance is probably we can pay the travel expenses down here. Mr. Dodd. But as far as =~. Mr. Blakey. They have actually given a statement to us under oath affecting our investigation by receiving a state- ment under oath.- As you can see, these are formal documents and they have really no impact on us at all. Mr. Dodd. The language of the resolution is they are hereby received in evidence and I am wondering if that desig- nation adds antthing new to what they already were at that time they were taken, the statements were taken?’ Mr. Blakey. It authorizes us to -- they are now formall a witness before the Commitee and thus we can pay their trave expenses. The Chairman.’ Then this affects the ‘public record? be noted as having been witnesses. As you can see, a number of them are fromthe Critics ‘Mr. Blakey. It affects the public record. They will | ; | . . | Conference. We have an extensive transcript of that | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 31
10 HW 300 ITH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 (202) S54%-2345 30 j conference in process and that, of course, will ultimately be made available to the Committee with a summary of the report on it. Mr. Fithian. It is also historical evidence that they were here and we did talk to them later on? |The Chairman. yes. | Mr. Sawyer. Without getting into detail, dia you get anything very helpful from all of this? | Mr. Blakey. Yes, I think SO. We have got some very good leads on the Critics Conference. Mr. Sawyer. “What? Mr. Blakey. - We got: some very good leads from the Critics Conference. I think the best thing that came ouf of the Critics. Conference is a woman in Dallas named Mary Farrell} who previously had a kind of ambiguous relationship to the Committee, came to the conference, came away reasonably impressed that the Committee was serious about its business, went back to Dallas, and knows a lot of people in Dallas, including the Chief of Police, and they told.the Chief of Police they ought to cooperate with us and now the Chief of Police has given all of our investigators in Dallas a letter, a personal letter from him to anybody in the Department saying that they are to get anything that they want to have access to Thig is in contra distinction to the situation prior to that when one of our investigators, Jack Moriaty, was in the ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 322762402 Page 32 ae en
19 300 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 20024 (202) S54-2345 20 "| " : 7 | t { Docld: 322762402 Page Chief's office, he was not permitted to talk to the Chief himself, only got to see an assistant chief, and had his car impounded while he was in talking to the man. So we have gone to.a situation where our investigators as had their cars being impounded by the Dallas police. Legally the car was not parked in the right place, nonetheless it was impounded and we didn' t get the normal courtesty that would be given to another law enforcement official. We go to the situation where the Chief now is very enthusiastic and in fact urging his men to cooperate. If that Critics Conference did that one thing, it turned around Mary Farrell and turned around the Dallas Chief of Police and I think it is fair to say it was worth the price of admifsion. Some things happened indirectly and not directly and I think that is an example. | The Chairman. Anything further? Mr. Devine. An unrelated matter. Sometime ago, I think perhaps prior to your becoming counsel, we received some ‘evidence I think from the attending physician that the brain of President Kennedy had been placed in the Archives and that thereafter they were unable to locate it.. I was wondering if anything developed in addition thereto? [ Mr. Blakey. We have made an effort to find it, includ- | ing talking with Mr. Lincoln, the President's personal | | | secretary,. and we have . been currently unsuccessful in finding | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 33
10 VW ° 300 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 (202) S54-2345 . rms nD o oo ~~ OG rr pe w wn ~ ‘ nn a ey do 23 24 | | | | 25 Docld: 322762402 Page 32 it. The President's brain is not located. Mr. Devine. Was it not signed for? Wasn't it signed in? Mr. Blakey. It was signed for but apparently not delivered or not delivered -- the bottom line is it is miss- ing. We have at least one rumor that it was subsequently buried with the President's bady. We have not checked that out to my satisfaction yet. We have worked with Burke Marshall, the Executor or designee of the Kennedy family, and his recommendation is frankly that we sit and talk with Senator Kennedy. Mr. Devine. It might not have any particular bearing on the investigation but it is a curious circumstance that could have some significance. That is why I was merely curious. Mr. Blakey. Our ‘doctors have told us that they can do an autopsy without the brain. They can fully review it and their final report will say even without: the brain, and there are some slides that are unaccounted for, they can arrive at their conclusions. They will say that for a full autopsy they should have had’ access to the brain and access to the slides. | I have on my list of delecate things to do is to go over and talk to Senator Kennedy and riase with him as deli- cately as I know how whether he knows where it is and whether we can with due regard to all those involved, make an effort to find it. eee nae ee cere ee ae Nt err aR ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 34
33. 1 Mr. Deveine. Didn't the doctor, and I blieve he was an on the Kennedy side and what we have looked around for is a wo ~ J ae person with a very special set of talents. What we have in 2 || Admiral, wasn't he, I am not sure ~- didn't he say that he 3 had personally delivered it to the Archives? 4 The Chairman. I don't remember. We did have the infor- z ; | mation~rumor Burke Marshall said that Bobby and someone else 6 ||. had gone out to the graveyard and put the brain in the casket § ‘7 | with the President. | § 8 Mr. Dodd. Do we need to move this other thing? f 9 _The Chairman. We have without objection inserted the : 10 affidavits into the report. : 1 | Mr. Dodd. That is all we need to do? . 2 12 | The Chairman. That is right. : *| Mr... Blakey. There are two additional things I would lik z 14 to do, and a little information report I would like to make. é | The two additional things I would like to raise with you, : 16 | the first one deals with the following situation that I raise ‘ 7 | with the Chairman and he thought it best that we raise it 4 : 18 | with the full Committee. z 19 | This has to do with the Kennedy side. We have roughly S 20 all but one investigator hired and we have got one spot open | 23 | mind is a person who can work on the team that is dealing wit | the CIA, and up until now we have hired only State and local 25 | people, detectives with backgrounds, and for this one slot we | ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld:3276274027 Page 35
34 | to the Department of Justice currently it would present no 1 want to vary that and our proposal to you isa man named 2 Harold Leaps be hired. | 3 He happens to be a currently employed Federal investi- 4 "gator. He is wiht the Drug Enforcement Administration. He § is known to Gary Cornwell personally and known to some of the z 6 ||. guys I knew in the Department of. Justice personally. He is 8 7 an older man, a very street wise Washingtonian sophisticated § g | investigator. | | - 9 His background has been making high level conspiracy : 10 | cases in the narcotics area. He has had to deal with the CIA : I | overseas. It turns out a couple of cases Harold made were $ 2 | on CIA agents in the drug area. And what we think we need © : 13 || in this one particular slot is an older person who has been 2 "| around a great deal and who knows. the agency, knows bureau- 13 | cratic procedure, and street wise. If Harold was not connected : = ° 17 problem and we in fact probably wouldn't even bring him as : 18 such to the Committee's attention. z 19° Nevertheless, he is a current employee of the Drug S 20 Enforcement Administration and the arrangement that we can work out with the DDE is they will lend him to the Committee | and he will be paid by the DEA. i "23 What will happen, he presently is making more than most | 24 of our. investigators. The agreement tentatively is that we | 25 | | will reimburse the Drug Enforcement Administration up to what | | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 322762402 Page 36
, 7 3nf 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 20024 (202) $54-2345 Pp oS RP 28 Bs eG FF we F BS FG NN tn Docld: 322762402 Page 35 we would normally pay our. invastigators and they in effect. will lend him to us for the difference. They are willing to enter into an agreement with us where they will waive any supervisory rights over ‘him and promise not to take any reprisals against him,. ‘which you see I am raising with you the following potentiality. If we hire a Federal employee, or we have someone who is presently connected with the Federa establishment, are we potentially getting into a conflict of interest situation? Since he is going to be looking hack. into the Federal Establishment? Our intent is not to use him as it impacts on the FBI or the Department of Justice. Our intent is to use him primaril if not exclusively in the CIA investigation. I think what. potentially might be a conflict of interest actually cuts two ways. It is possible for us to say that if ve ultimately ended up in gome way criticising the Department of Justice, the presence of Leaps on the staff may indicate the objec~ tivity of what we did. To make a long story short, it seems to me his employ- ment raises an issue that is differentthan all of the other employments and the Chairman thought that it would be useful if I bring it to your attention. I might also at this time ask if Gary Cornsell, who knows. Harold Leaps, could say a few words. The Chairman. Mr. Cornwell. ee hate ORE EF eR ree SeRLaRN CR tn SHORE SE rates p nA eter ta ALBERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. a?
10 YW Docld: 322762402 Page 300% 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 29024 (202) SS%-2345 G8. 2» oo WS OB w &® Yb BP = .. ee ee a 36 Mr. Cornwell.: Just to give you a little more detail about his background, he is 54 years old, he has been a special agent with Drug Enforcement, or whatever it. has been called, over the years, ‘since 1960. Between 1960 and 1966 he was ‘assigned to Kansas City and worked primarily on drug investigations there and rose from a special agent to a group supervisor and ultimately during the period of 1966 to 1968 he was inspection agent in charge in the St. Louis office. He then went back to Kansas City and I knew him during the years of '70 to ‘72 when he was a representative to the Kansas City strike force and worked organized crime cases notconly involving narcotics but other types of offenses, too. . In 1972 he was assigned to Pakistan as a country attache which in effect means that he was in charge of our efforts over all of the drug activity in that country. After 1974 he went to LEAA where he was the drug programming manager, in Kansas City, and in 1976 he was transferred to Washington and since 1976 he has been DEA's reprsentative to Interpol. I am not only familiar with his personal abilities from having worked with him, I think I am fairly familiar with his reputation in the lww enforcement community, and I think that based upon that we can say with some assurance that the problem, the ptoential problem is not a practical one, in other words, we don't see any problem in his in fact complete cre rere ee aac cee tr nt EN a pe ARR eer si A te shure sh StF ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 33
~ — —e ~ — _~ — . 1 Orv tn & ws Nw _ Q ve) oo ~“~ oa in. w nun ~ cn a a an oe ~ — | et ~ Ss) a ~~ wd NO 7 3200 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 (202) SSh-2345 TS) we . £ ° id iY a ent Ww an Docld: 322762402 Page 37 loyalty to this investigation, pursing the léads and: coming up with the facts nor do we see anything about the projection as far as ability to accomplish what we need in the CIA field. He has received ‘numerous commendations over the years from DEA and Secret Service, FBI, in cases he has worked for them or relating to both DEA and Secret Service or FBI offenses, and we have, like Bob said, tentatively worked out with tEA the fact that they would loan him to us. He is making about $35 now and in December will be makin $40,000 as DEA representative ta Interpol, and in effect what we would be doing is paying what we can pay, they pick up the difference. . | Mr. Blakey. I might say, if I can say one last thing. Probably the most difficult facet of what we are going to do is facing the CIA and the interwoven and complicated and two people acting in different roles and files and double agents | and the works, and we really looked for the most qualified person we could find to do that kind of international con- spiracy bureaucratic type of investigation, and frankly, Harold comes up as the best guy we could find to do what I think will probably be the toughest piece of investigative work we can do. | | But we didn't want to suggest that we hire or work with a Federal agent until we brought that issue to the Committee' attention. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 39 a
308 ITH STREET, S.W, REPORTERS BUTLDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 (202) SS4-23N5 Docld: 322762402 38 The Chairman. Perhaps it would be good if either one or both of you would address yourselves to the question of the individual himself and as to whether you feel he would have reticence or any hesitance at all in terms of the conspiracy aspect. If he found CIA was involved, what type of reaction woul you get from him? | Mr. Blakey. He would eat them alive. Mr. Cornwell. I consider the same thing from my persona: experience with him and the one thing that stands out in my mind about him is the repeated instances in which he has shown his inclination and willingness and ability to. follow the investigation to investigate wherever it leads, in spite of and in fact the pressures from his own agency over the years to do the contrary. . As I am sure all of you are somewhat familiar, DBA has been occasionally if not frequently criticized, and probably justifiably so, for a buy and bust type of attitude. Harold ‘Leaps has over the years pursued the investigation wherever it led into the conspiracy fields in spite of the fact that his own superiors have opposed hin.. So I ‘have no hesitation in saying there wouldn't be any reticence on his part. The Chairman. How often did he actually work the St. Louis area while he was Kansas City strike force chief? Mr. Cornwell. The system we had there was an office ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 40 tes enerenren ener ennenrtan tn He tt ea Ee Ht A ES RY eA
1 2 3 4 ww = 5 N~ i B s 7 & 4 e = 39 a z 10] | Z| F Fo | g g 1 2 14 #8 Es Ee 1s | Es Gs e 16 = Eo rs | pny wan E19 ¢ 20 21 | I z 22 | { 23 | 26 | 25 | Docld: 322762402 Page 39 in St. Louis. Which covered that half of Missouri. Mr. Leaps was the special agent in charge in St. Louis during the years '66 through '68 and thereafter returned to Kansas City where he was the strike ‘force representative, the representa- tive from DEA to the Kansas City Organized Crime Strike Force - during the years '70 to '72. We covered the other half. of Missouri plust a number of other states. The Chairman. I see. Mr. Dodd. Mr. Dodd. No questions. The Chairman. Mr. Nithian. Mr. Fithian: No questions. The Chairman. Mr. McKinney. Mr. McKinney. Has the blunt question ever been asked whether he worked for the CIA or not? | Mr. Cornwell. I think the blunt question has not been asked but. I. think we have talked around with him on this subject matter and I know himwell enough where I am quite confident in saying he has not been an employee of the CIA reenter mae but we can certainly ask the question bluntly. Mr. McKinney. Since we are in executive session, I can Say this sort of thing as a Congressman; there are several reports that sit in this room and reports on this Committee who say never worked for the CIA either and yet I. am of the | exact. opposite opini-n and just the only thing I would ia | ALCERSON REPSORTING COMPANY. INC. 41
40 1 is not your judgment or the gentleman's honor,. having been 2 sent to Pakistan an jan active assistant counsel, these are th CIA's: most favored subworkers and it is just something I bring up and I would feél a great deal more comfortable if that question were asked bluntly and have a blunt answer received back. Mr. Blakey. I. can say two things came up. The question was not bluntly asked, frankly becauee in the context of the conversation it didn't occur to me. He has been involved in I ; | f } | | | prosecution of CIA agents for drug traffic, which is wholly — eo — —_e inconsistent with his role as a possible CIA agent. _Secondly, the question he asked me was before he would ~ Nw gree to come on, he wanted to know how serious we were about ~~ & pursing a conspiracy allegation that would deal with a govern owt tn ment agency such as the FBI or the CIA, and he said if the ne ov investigation takes me there how well do I stand up, and my _— “| Congress wasn't serious about it. ~e : @ _ 2 Mr. McKinney. I don't think it is inconsistent at all. 300 77H STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 (202) 554-2345 rity that CIA should prosecute another one. wd So Mr. Blakey. We can ask and indéed -- ~ ~ ' Mr. McKinney. I have no objection. We go by your judg- a 23 | ment on the personnel. I think that is a question I would ) 24 like to have asked. The gentleman has traveled to foreign | 25 | nations and has worked in American consulates and now has answer was I wouldn't have taken the job if I thought the | | 1 become a. representative to Interpol, and my mind works in | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 322762402 Page 42
2 3 4 2 4 oO Nt t 4 2 6«C6 3 7 = 8 4 ww ar) 6 = 10 5 | ¢g Z 1 | = | Z. z 2 | o | =e 43 a wl -_ 2 14 wn 1 E .| & 1s 3 r is | = wi 17, 5 | s | e n = 19 ~ = 20 f { | | i j | Docld: 322762402 Page 41 very devious ways after seven years in this town. These gentlemen have been here a lot longer and they have no objec- tion so I go with their judgment and yours. The Chairman. Mr. Sawyer. Mr.. Sawyer. No questions... The Chairman. You want to actually take -- Mr. Blakey. IT: wanted to bring it to your attention and if you had’ serious reservations about it we would do somethin different. re you have no serious reservations about it we will make an effort to: determine whether he has any CIA connections, and if it is negative, and we are satisfied with that answer we will move to hire him post haste. The Chairman. I thnk you can be guided by the response you received here. Mr. Blakey. There is one last matter that should be taken up with the Committee. In connection with the notice annoucing this meeting I circulated a memorandum that had attached to it a letter that I received from Robert Coke, dated October k, 1977, which dealt with the issue of whether the Department of Justice would permit the FBI to do a security background. check on staff members preliminary to a decision as to whether they would have access to classified - documents of the: Committee.. As you know, the current memorandum of understanding ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 43 ee ete eet rn fA RIE ROR srg nrg ene ph reese unet suits yee.
~ 2 3 4 z § a = o 64 s 7 = 4g (7 ~ g 9 a = 10) & tl e 1| a g = 13 | a} -_ = a 14 RR [4 bat 6 18! 2 | G3 @ 16 = & . e 18 | = + wa E19 = 20 4 n yy See es Se eee Docld: 322762402 Page 42 with the @Department on that score apparently only authorizes the FBI’ to do background investigations of the Committee staff members , not the personal staff members, and the letter pretty much speaks for itself. “The Department says they cannot do it, and frankly, will not do it unless a new arrangemeht is worked out. I remember the second issue we left at the meeting in which we set up our aecurity rules to October 15, I think it was, where we would work for awhile without having the personal staff members of the Committee members having access to the classified material until now as trial period, then th matter would be brought: back up to you. Well, I guess the matter is brought back up to you and I really await your instructions as to what you want us to. do. | | Mr. Fithian. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have not been inconvenienced by this matter and my | staff member who already has 1400 other things to do is not at all offended. I can see, however, when we get down to about ten months from now, or 11 months from now, in prepara- tion for the final public hearings, I would want very much to have the staff person, my own staff working with me and work-j ing with whomever of the Committee. What kind of problem do you foresee at that time? Mr. Blakey. This has been posed to me by some staff ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 44
12 13 14 1§ 16 18 19 20 21 22 xa : 300 7TH STREET, S.U. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 202% (202) S54-2345 = oa 0 Pr near * ee < st meen ener eeeererg cntapmeunwecinancifanarsas tnumuaguainn 0rd drama egteinr ceepennas ceatntnar trtst °C AO AOAC CY Ce ee TT TO TO ATE eS : 23 24 25 = Docld: 322762402 Page 43 members on Congressman Burke's staff as well, the issue being assuming no staff members have access furing the course of the investigation, what bout staff members at the time of the} final report or final héarings? I think that is a wholly different issue. At that time, it seems to me the staff member could play an important role in working with you and frankly, being the kind of independent sounding board you need before you make decisions at the end evaluating the process. Unless something comes to me overnight in the comin weeks it seems to me that is the kind of issue that will be handled at that time by working out some access and it probably would not be ncessary to, gim Wolf, correct me if © I am wrong, without security clearances, because I think we could do that at that time, at the end, making any disclosure, authorized disclosure by the Committee to Committee staff members for the purpose of preparing for the final hearings. We certainly could control very carefully the nature of the disclosure that we think they needed to know in the final report and the full Committee would be aware of what was bein disclosed. That seems to.me to be the kind of controlled disclosures would not present the problems that I think might be presented by agency trust and even day to day conduct of the investigation. I hope that answers you. : Mr. Fithian. I am not sure it does but it addresses | | the subject. . | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 445
10 WI 360 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, O.C, 2024 (202) SSN-2345 “o _ in eee ee ee ee rn oe me ee en Te Oa“ NT OS et ne on sores 5 a a eT SoA SS See ees SS Docld: 322762402 Page 44 in this and I am sorry he isn't here. I presume he has a thousand different things to do. He did have some real con- cerns about this from a workload standpoint and I know he would like to be heard on the thing and I was not in agree- ment with him the last time we went over this thing and I am pretty much in the same position, I think there is work that staff can do without necessarily having to get into the classified area. : Mr. Blakey. That will increasingly be less so. I see from here on, at least on the Kennedy side, classified being more of what we do touching on the clssified and increasingly Mr. Dodd. Congressman Edgar, I know had a deep interest be impossible to separate the two out. Mr. Dodd. Really? Mr. Blakey. Yes. We are almost in that stage now. It is true we will have a.Warren, we will have the Warren Commission hearings in November, I hope, which will not involve much classified material.. | ‘Mr. Dodd. Yes. Mr. Blakey. But the ongoing investigation itself I hopw is going to be deep into CIA files, as deep with the FBI files with classified information being out and I would think | that it would be a real problem if staff members were not | Cleared. We had to worry about who is present and who had access to what piece at the time. I think we are better ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 46
Wi 3nn ITH STREET, s.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, B.C. 20024 (202) S54-2345 Docld: 322762402 Page 45 off with the blanket rule. Mr. McKinney. I read your letter, this is one of the problems we are coming up against, it is like a stone wall. Too much other water has gone over the dam since this morning and three different Committee hearings and a few things on the floor and so on. What is the implication, are they sayin they won't do it? | | Mr. Blakey. I think that we will have to really fight with them to-do a security investigation ofa Congressman's personal staff. Mr. McKinney. I could only give you my knowledge of Senator Weicker's expdrience on the Watergate Committee related to what you have seen trying to hold a meeting here this afternoon. I. think that the average Congressman sitting at this desk is probably expected to read Gone With the Wind) ‘once and a half a week, that is just to keep track of where the hell we are at, for’ getting the Select Committee on | Assassinations. | | | When the Committee was first established, as the new Chairman will probably remember, we had a horrendous fight brewing on our hands about whether or not ‘each Committee member should have a staff member on the Committee, even if that staff member were picked by. the Chief Counsel, S, Y, 2, and we didn't even know the guy -- here, Mr. McKinneydéis your guy. I see us moving into a real problem area trying ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 47 a re er ce ee teat
2 3 4 z 5 Pe t e 6 wi & 4g e aw Py 3 a = 10 & eou| fon] = 2 Fn | g = 13 —_ a 2 14 s Gs & 15 2 a 2 14 bf 1g a E19 = 20 n> —_ ss nN Ca we) a Docld: 322762402 Page 46 to close this thing down in time. Mr. Preyer is on so many other committees that it is hard to count and myself and Mr. Devine, and Chairman Stokes, everyone. Mr. Blakey. We will be making an effort with Charlie Matthews to have him see you at least once a week and Charlie . will be then in the position of knowing everything that is going on on both King and Kennedy. | Mr. McKinney. That is fine and dandy, as I am delighted Charlie announced himself. briefly, but I am also very well aware of the fact that I have got a great many doubters sit- ting over in the big room. I will have a lot of doubters sitting on the thing writing for the Washington Post and the Washington Star who think we are a bunch of whirley heads ' anyway, for. their own pérsonal reasons. I think we are going to need an area of expertise, so I will only say two things. I would like to see this Eight go on, number one, while we are progressing, Mr. Chairman, not commit ourselves with having to fight together to see if we gan get them clearances, but, number two, I think that very seriously as we come to the end of the thing and they are going to put a tremendous burden on you, lacking that, I think you are going to have to be prepared to almost have someone like Jim or somebody Mr. Blakey. When we get down to the end. | | assigned to every single member of this Committee. Mr. McKinney. Normally sitting right back there, and | | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 43
47 1 I am known for nothaving a committee member sitting behind 2 me. This is a Select Committee with great complications. I don't know any way I am going to be able to keep on top of it. Mr. Blakey. I think when we get down to the public | | | hearings in the end to have our staff which fully knows it, and knows the ins and outs of it, we can begin setting up the final hearings where specific roles and witnesses are assigne to various members, this staff is your staff in terms of teams I have no problem with that at all. In fact, that is the way it should be. In fact, this staff is your staff and I don't think that as a personal member ; your personal staff member could ever catch up and be fully conversant with what we are doing and the depth of what we are doing in such a way as to & be helpful to you. . REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) S54~2345 Mr. McKinney. Well, my fear is just only as I expressed, 17 | We are never going to catch up, it could become a real problem because unfortunately this Committee will be judged, just as the issue whether you take testimony with or without a 20 Congressman, this Committee will be judged on what the Congres does and how they perform in the final end; I think it is a | ' 7 } 3099 7TH STREET, S.W real problem, I don't think anybody outside of this job under-/| 23 || stands the job. My wife, I have been in this for seven years 24 || and she still doesn't understand it. It is that simple. 25 It is a job in which we are totally generalists, and the only | | | | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 322762402 Page 49
~ a — —_ — wn _ aw pony & — wn 16 19 300 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) S54-2345 w a Docld: 322762402 Page 48 way we can come in with any specificity is when we have a staff member. I can come across as an expert on loan guaran- tees, only because David Carren, who sits here day after day behind this table when Iam running all over the place. Mr. Blakey. I would hope when we have the final public hearings that you will all have a staff of five or six people who would fully prepare you and we hope to sit down as a staf and as a committee and say this is what we think the final hearings ought to look like as we prsent it to you and we would hope you would make an effort to specialize and then we can in fact fully prepare you. I have to say frankly, if I may digress, personally; r was very impressed with the abilit of this Committee, first of all, the commitment to attend the Loran Hall meetings. I was surprised to see all of us, | virtually all of you were there and I was pleasingly surprise at the quality of the interrogation by the Congressmen, in fact,some of you, if you want to work with the staff full | ‘time, you may be my guests. Mr. McKinney. The weekends are free. There are a lot of us that might take the opportunity. Mr. Blakey. So by comparison to the other body, I have no problems with the ability of this Committee to handle its own on our final hearings. If we set them up right and the preparation is done, this Committee will look good. Mr. Sawyer. Well, I might say I much prefer frankly wha ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 450
49 1 the Chief Counsel has suggested. I had sort of visualized th 2 at some point in time or maybe several different times, when 3 things began to gel I would have the privilege of sitting 4 down with a group of people that had firet:-hand knowledge. I spent the last number of years of my life getting 6 briefed by guys who have done all the work and I have learned 7 how to get briefed pretty fast, but I like to ask questions, and if it was filtered secondhand through a member of my staff I would have no confidence whatever in the reliability of what I am getting: ‘So I just understood without really ever asking anybndy the questiontthat this staff would in 12 || effect be my staff as to the extent I wanted to sit down with 13 them and learn what’ I ami talking about and I think I can do 14 it en fairly fast. order’ and that is the only way I can get it 1$ because the questions I would have, the person:I dm dealing tr tn a ny ET I Br et ee arenes with second hand wouldn't know the answers to and maybe had - 17 not thought to ask,. and that is much the way I prefer to do r it. I have no need to have my staff involved. 19 ‘The Chairman... Mr. Preyer. 20 Mr. Preyer. No quéstions,. I feel like Mr. Sawyer on 21 that. I think we all. have different ways of approaching 22 mi 30f 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 (202) SSN-2345 The Chairman. Mrs. Burke. 23 24 Mrs. Burke. The only thing I was concerned about is if 25 | when we are not available sometimes it would be helpful if we SS Se ae eee things. ee | | | fete se eee es ee ee ee ee ee ee ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.. Docld: 322762402 Page 51
10 NW 13 14 15 16 DoclId: 3227627402 Page . 3n0 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUTLDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 20024 (202) SSH-2345 rx tn Se 50 have a staff person who was. present to report to us. It gets to be almost I think too difficult for a member of the Com- mittee staff to havé“t6"run around to our offices and try and/ catch us between votes and all those things to be able to keep us up to date on things that are happening. Mr. Blakey. Mr. Matthews. Mr. Matthews. I don't mind that at all. Mrs. Burke. No, it just: gets to be almost such a really burden, I think. Mr. Blakey. We have Charlie.. I shouldn't say he has nothing to do. What he has to do is to learn what is going on in our shop and to tiake it available to you full time, and there is no way that any single member of our staff would:> ever be able to catch up to what he has because he has nothin else to do. Sol think if you are willing to use him and can use him he will know more: about both investigations on all occasions than any meitber of our staff could reasonably be expected to learn. | The Chairman. Anything further -- do you want -- Mr. Blakey. Unless we hear to the contrary. The Chairman. I-think you got the consensus here. I don't think there is any formal action that has to be taken. Mr. Blakey. Let. mie raise with you some tentative plans so that you can kind of block in but not block in surely for your caléndars what is in our heads. We have, I think we gee. ee een tenn Renee ee tetas Ge ee per re a apenas tines ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, ING. 452
-51 1 probably need to have one additional full Committee meeting 2 | before you go home, assuming you are going home the 27th. 3 the Chairman... you’ know something we don't know. 4e Mr. Sawyer. I heard the Minority Leader address that at | ; | | | i | | | a meeting at 8 o'clock this morning. It ended up he knew as. much as the rest of us and was:6f the opinion no one else does. Mr. Blakey. We should have, assuming the 27th, one more full Committee meeting, and I think it would probably be nekt week sometime, probably Friday morning. The purpose of it would be to set up a series of immunity gugestions. There 12 are really three- areas where we may want to suggest that to 13 | you. One deals with a matter that Bob Lehner is currently 14 working on on the King side, dealing with a man named Randy Rosen. We can more fully brief you on Mr. Rosen in a moment. 300 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUTLDING, WASHINGTON ,. H.C, 29024 (202) 554-2345 15 16 Second is.a follow up set of hearings on the Kennedy side 17 pursuing some of the things that Loran Hall laid out for us, 18 including Mr. Trafficante. It seems to me for several 19 reasons, some of which ‘is some billing and having to do with 20.) the Committee as an institution, Trafficante is an 21 outstanding witness who has taken the Fifth, we ought to ost oS decide. what we are going to do about him. Mr. Hall has | 23 | clearly given us leads. pointing towards that Bayo raid and 26 | the possible involvement in it‘of the CIA. We should pursue | “| that. | oO : | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 32262402 Page 53
1 2 3. 4 “ z 5 w 4 $7 & 8 e { =e 39 a = 10 Z | & g For | = 2 = 1 | 2 13 § = a 4 na E .| & 18 2 2 16 = “a 17 GS | 18 § E19 = 20 at | : | if a7 22 | { 23 | 26 | 25 | ett cece os Docld: 322762402 Page 52 Indeed, Gary and I are over the weekend were worried | about whar we would do in this area and we were going up now an ‘investigative plan which tentatively contemplates three days of hearings in the last week of October, the 25th, 26th and 27th. So we would have in all the people that are alive -out of that raid and perhaps some CIA and FBI people. The exact:‘names are not finished but we certainly should have tha finished by next week. and come back to you with some immunity orders inthat regard. We also have on the King side one issue of what is euphamistically called close surveillance. . We have an inves+: tigator now that we would like to put into a situation of close surveillance and I want to have to you a memorandum both of facts and law that you will have and opportunity to read for a little while before next week so you will know . what is coming. Those two things to be taken up next week, probably Friday., contemplating at least three days of hearings in the end of October, 25,.26 and 27. Then in November we would like two sets of hearings on the Warren Commission report, November 8, 9, and 10, 15, 16 and 17. : a | Mr. McKinney. One suggestion. The Majority Leader called and asked me to go on a trip on the llth of November, which makes me feel that the Majority Leader and Minority Leader are leaving on the llth of November, which makes me ee ace ere en a ne ee nN I a eee tS Sc UE ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 54
2 3 4 z § q Pd a 6«66 a & g = AH 9 a = 10 E an a 2 4 g tad a 13 = a 14 wz 4 ae & 1§ £ fa = 16 “a7 5 18 e na E19 = 20 a so 22 23 24 25 | | Docld: 322762402 Page 53 feel the 8, 9, and 10 of October would be screamers around here, I mean November, if we are going to be in session. Jim Wright and John Rhodes are leaving on a trip on the llth. | It makes me feel we are going to be in session until the 10th. I find if you try to do anything the last three days we are in session forget it, you might as well pack it in. If you plan to bring anyone in from out of State the last three days ardund here we don't go to bed or do anything. Mr. Blakey. All I can do is raise it with you tentatively ~ and your schedule obviously controls and blows it out of the water. Mr. McKinney . I Was going to suggest the Chairman con- fer with the’ Leadership of the House and try to get a firmer idea so we will all be on stronger ground. | Mr. Blakey. We had tentatively scheduled, that would be six days on the Warren Commission and the Institution. There is a task force currently working on the Warren Commis- sion as an institution, and we are identifying the key | personnel in the Warren Commission, primarily the Committee counsel and some ®BI ‘and some CIA personnel. We want to come in and have them explain to us how they do it, particularly having them explain tous. under oath candidly how they did epi meet a ne ieee — nee it. And we probably need as many as six days. Mr. Dodd. Could I make a: pitch for the 24th and 25th and ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 545
54 1 Mr. Blakey. The 24th of November is Thanksgiving. 2 Mr. Dodd. There goes that pitch. 3 Mr. Blakey. We figured we would do-it the two weeks 4 before Thanksgiving. | 3 5 Mr. Dodd. I meant October. 3 6 Mr. Blakey. October? 8 7 Mr. Dodd. YOu were talking about those dates. 8 Mr. Blakey. The 25th is UN Day, UN Day and Veterans r +] Day. a : rt . = to | Mr. McKinney. We are off the 24th. : u | Mr. Dodd. I have the Secretary of Agriculture coming z 2 | up for two days on the 26th and 27th right ‘in the District. : 13 Mr. Sawyer. The 15th and 16th and 17th of November are . 2 Id absolutely out as far as I am concerned. ) : 1s | {Discussion off the record) 2 16 The Chairman. Do you want to have any discussion of the a 17 | Committee relative to what we discussed in terms of visita- | Fs a tions of the scened? z 19 Mr. Blakey. Sometime betweenthe time Congress goes out S | of session and comes back in January, I would like to see at | all members of the Committee go to Memphis and to Dallas, and Pe | I can't vouchiiyet for Memphis because I haven't been there, 1 23 | but I just came bak from Dallas and no matter how many . | “| photographs you see, and no matter how many diagrams you see, | 25 i the place is different when you see it in real life. It«is | | ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 322762402 Page 56
300 7TH STREET, S.W. Docld: 322762402 REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 20024 (202) SS4-2345 . 20 23 25 | 55 closer. The dimensions are not the same as they appear to be in Sabuto film or all the drawings you have seen and whéther he did it or not has a different degree of credibility depending on whether you stand in that window and look down Houston Street and down Elm, whether you walk frankly where he apparently walked. Tt is alleged that he walked near his © house and where Triplett was shot and the Texas Theather. To go there and see it is to have a different attitude toward it than to read the books on it, and I really mean sometime in December you people should go, slip out of here quitetly and go, but you should see Dallas, and Bob will have to tell me about Memphis; but I think you should see Memphis, too. | Mr. Dodd. That might be around after the first of Januaty. ‘We don't come back until almost the end of January depending upon when we leave. Mr. McKinney. The 17th. Mr. Dodd. They are talking about moving that date further up depending upon how long we are in at this end. That is what I heard the other day. . : Mr. Blakey. The other thing, when January starts, we are tentativaly scheduling in our head for January, rebeueey, | . ! | and March, April and May, will be hearings all the time, like every single week, and we hope to use the month of December as preparation for these hearings. | Mr. Dodd. That is one thing I was hoping to touch on, | | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 5?
Docld: 322762402 Page 300 7TH STREET, §.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 292024 (202) 55-2345 a a ry o on = o o o NN om n re w nD ~ ‘ we eS SE SS 56 talk about dates. I feel very strongly about having covering questions that have already been pretty much established. I felt the other day that I probably could have cut down con- siderably the amount Gf questions I asked had I already known an awful lot had been covered. That is what I was getting . &t a few days before, that with the background information to assist in questioning process, and while the memorandum was helpful, Bill Triplett, I think, spent four days with Loran Hall and probably covered an awful lot of things I can' speak for the other members, but I felt maybe had already bee covered, cleared up one way or the other. Mr. Blakey.- I have to say I think we are feeling for a way to do this. | Mr. Dodd. Yes. Mr. Blakey. We literally have. The Congress has not done this kind of an investigation before and the kind of role that staff should play and the kind a Congressman should play and the degree to whith you people are going to partici- page, I think we are writing a clean Slate. One example of it Bob is going to bring up in a minute, we have Randy Rosen on the King side and he is in prison now onan unrelated charge and the answer for’a prosecutor bringing a person before a grand jury is get a writ of havea corpus ad testifandum, you go. and get it and talk to him, it turns out | ‘we are not a prosecutor when we go to look to see if we can ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. 53
300 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) S54-2345 20 DocId: 32262402 23 24 25 =< ee Page get a writ, until my lawyer tells me that there is no such 57 get a writ of habeas corpus, it turns out the legal authority is not there. So that again, what we are trying to do is tak something that was designed for the purpose and do something a little different with it, and I think that the best I can ask you to do is bear with us, we will try to in the months . and weeks ahead to see if we can't work this out so we find the proper and useful role for the various people. We are going to have to develop a way to do this. Mr. Sawyer. Would it be possible to get aUS DAor an ~ assistant. from the Justic Department to get it for us and bring him here? Mr. Blakey.- The ‘interesting thing is it is a civil proceeding and the Fedezal District courts don't have juris- diction beyond 100 miles. So technically they have no juris- diciton over Virginia prisons. Mr. McKinney. ‘We can all go there. Mr. Blakey. That is a little more complicated and the hearings next week, he may be transferred to a prison in Ohio and it may well be the place to interview him is in Ohio rather than there, and particularly it makes it more conven- ient. So I thought there was no problem, bring him up and a a Se thing as a writ to testify before a Congressional committee. The Chairman. I will work it into my district schedule. Mr. Fithian. I just wanted to suggest in*this long ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 459
58 | range scheduling that you are doing that there would be a 2 tremendous advantage to us as a committee if you zero in on 3 some real key witnesses that you are going to have before the | 4 Committee, if this is going to fall in that January period. If we could get some days before the Congress comes back in . when we as a Committee could come back in and work continuous y without bells, without other things. I think ifvw have some of those days available, if we come upon those days, then the toughest and most complicated witnesses, or whatever, we ough to try to possibly schedule them on those days. So many oo “OO wn 1] times a person is doing something that ought to be pursued right there and then not give them 15 minutes to regroup and the stmosphere has changed. Mr. McKinney. I could agree more. I think during the 16 recess if we come to some conclusions there is going to be 7 ; the bills go off and we go off ahd vote and we come back and i 8 390 7TH STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 (202) §5"-2345 enough of us here before and after the Christmas holidays, we can make some hay, make some ground work on this thing, 19 and I don't see any other time to do it. | 20 _ Mr. Fithian. or reverse it, that is the advantage to us an to get everything. I don't think that a Congressional | Pe | Committee really ought to find itself repeating questions | | that some other members asked 30 minutes ago when you were on “| the floor voting or some such thing. Is there any way you 25 | can do that? I have wrestled mentally with this probablem ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 322762402 Page 60
Docld: 322762402 300 7TH STREET, 5S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) S5"-~2345 59 © in all committees in the three years I havé been here. It is always the same. I will sit there, you have 50 people from the public flying in all over the country sitting around, some member will come in a hour after the hearings a: are underway and raise the question that was},answered clearly 45 minutes ago. It just doesn't have any class. Mr. Blakey... There are clearly ways we can do that. One of them is to figure out what the witness's general areas are to break them down into specific areas and then to take up those areas one by one and have the Committee know beforehand which areas are going to be taken up so that then the staff begins a little discussion on a narrow area and then the staf stops. It is set up for you, you will have a briefing memo- randum before you come in outlining the broad areas, and then which areas are going to be taken up in which order so that when, if you come in late, because you have been at a vote -or a different committee you should be able to be tole we have gone through areas A, B, C, we are on area D, and these _are the three points that have been covere-d. What happened the other day that was wrong was we went all the way through, then we went.back to the Committee. We should have gone -- Mr. Fithian. I wasn't criticizing that, Puwas thinking of a better way of being more effective as a committee and think what Stushds suggested is really the key to it. If we can find some days before we take up a session then that is ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 61
2 3 4 wa = § an z ow 6 a > by 7 x 3 e eS ~ Pa 9 a = 10 & zon a = 12 Pt = 13 § = a 14 Nn [4 bas & 135 2 Gt = 16 = “ao17 e 18 = n = 19 ~ e 20 . 21 oS 27 22 23 24 25 arr acne entrann ete eerie rt np Say P| tn er A A ee 9 an tr  S a cere ere note mur rene career ermmeny 60 gence ener Fan ae ee ame rere eeeeee penne paennn A Oe SSS eS SE Sn SSS rr a re OS OS 60 all we are doing, we can cover more ground and complete more of our efforts than you can stringing it out over eight or ten weeks of. squeezing it in between when the Appropriations Committee ‘meets or when ‘the Agriculture Committee is doing this or that or we are on the floor. The Chairman. Anything further? Okay. Mr. McKinney. I was going to suggest tothe Chairman and Chief Counsel if we can come up with anything earlier, we are suggesting dates, the sooner the better. I think it would be appreciated. I don't plan to go anywhere very far but I find myself going to Boston, here and there and all over the place. . Before we load up on that I think it would be nice to ha dates. | Mr. Blakey. I wanted to raise with you the general dates and I would suspect by the end of next week, if we can tentatively schedule a meeting for Friday, if that is all right with you, we can come back with the dates concrete. The Chairman. Fiirndah them to the Committee prior to that time so. they will. have a chance to mull over them. “Mr. Fithian. What other dates are you talking about in November ?. Mr. Blakey. “ghése are all the dates. A full Committee meeting next Friday the 21st, three days of hearings in en ee eet te eet career ne ER AR = ane ett REED Silencer einen ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Doclda: 32262402 Page 62
RG: 233 TAB #: ENTRY: COPIES/ PPS. /CLASS. BOX: ACCESS RESTRICTED The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file: File Designation JIELON TWNVUGHILIN Date From To In the review of this file this item was removed because access to it is restricted. Restrictions on records im the National Archives are stated in generaland specific record group restriction statements which are available for examination. The item identified above has been withdrawn because it ‘contains: E] Security- Classified Information {x]. Otherwise Restricted Information M LI} 08/22/93 Authority Date Withdrawn by NSCA John F, Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (P.L. 102-526) NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION : NA FORM 14000 (1-86) | O| 6 Zlo4F} WA , i (4662 : —~6S° pp- el