! iT 1 : : if i ! o- | | vould ban all peacetime political assassinations. ge aie eed : i 3 oe cetimmoart loth, fe < D Mr. Aaron. Would that ftoaclude sunrortinga the Mxeeut Ovder provision being in the Taw or just supnmorting? Senator Mathias. “ni the Presidential. -- why don't ve he ambiguous? Mr. Kirbow. We entorse the concent. Mr. Davis. “TE they're not different. Mr. @itenora. There tna recemmendatinn here that other teres of couerk action which should be hanned, “nd since we're talking ahbouk a statnte whieh we have subeitted which bans. jt ve would then han hv statute. recommend hanning by statute al! political assassinations which weild enlarte the President's; Beeoutive Ordar into a law and. then tha rest of these. just assuming fer the sake of ercumant thak the Commitbee wanted to do that, it tronld he a recemmandation for leaislation which Mr. Kirhow. The stafeé could work em that lanavage a_ Vittle and qet it hack te ver, | T think we know what pen want to do here, don't you. navid? | Ne. Aaron. Vas. TI think wacean maka a Fix, jouer make the point that the political agsassina tions noint is putting in law what the Executive Order is as prenosad bs the hieantive pier oro me pravivcd bye the “nreenbive Order Saynabor Mudd leactou , NEL riche. Sets then ko overthrav FOP SECRET ISTRY be PLP HW 50955 Docld:32423509: Page 136 | mmememerereter ote gn er RERSELRAnans Rete trereeretet-t rere -anaandgaananaees . - Se eM OR em UEENNPAMie unt enema cunee ones cate cA rue Re RE FET
HW 50955 a 19 — no AS fies ‘pocld:32423509 Page 139. it eee ce Ore ae L3G democratically elected ccoecromeants , Mr. Underfurth. 7 wicdht mantion that Cyrus Vance went hayvond this. Ne said al) interference in the electoral processe of a country should be khanned. which soes beyond this. 6 Senator Mathias. Yerhans that was some subliminal influence on me. but I've written down efforts to subvert a walit electoral process. talk ahonuy javerthrowina a lpsaacratically electe: government, Tt qrems to me that ochak ja hettar hecause when vou ; | | Ged knows what that is. And To dentt tno that you're really anindg to know what a valid elemkoral erocess is. The Republic Af Venice, where they have a very limited electorate. selected those. Rut nonetheless. it was their acnstituktion and it wasn't very democratic. . Rut whatever it is. and this would be ; ~N ‘ “4 in line with Georda Cannen's testimony alan. -Wae finallv have ackneyvledcved that the Soviet Union has a leaislature af sorts and we acknowledaa their electcral neocess. although we dan'h think much of dh. vou intend to include within that preventing the CIA from anv kind. of nolitieal or rronaganda in connection with the selections in another country or ony kind of supnort to one of thea candidates that we miaht think was a better ctendddste?- Mr Yirhow Mellow eatdoreseitta of 4 Tp Wilhreth . Daye cop dd | ween Par euhyerk the resiylts by TOP SECRET Wes PAUL, Me, Culbreth. Wnuld cour use cf the term subvert, would
HW 50955 6 20 mY oN Boos aw on eee | 30 iufluencinga the carryins ovk oF the electicn? Senator. Huddleston. Vell. we subvert our own elections Er ET nee ene ne, cemerumcae » pam every time we run. Senator Mathias. The oricinal suadestion was efforts. to overthrow democratically elected qovernments, I mean both | of these -- efforts to. subvert the results of a valid electoral i orecess.— | Senakhor Iluddleston. 7? think that's all viaht. | Mr. Inderfurth. In a senea what is a der oeratically | elected aqovernment? 7 Movnihan says that an the LN. thera are 24, s9 in sense we could actually list them, Mr. diGeneva. What ahouk, whak is a valid electoral | nrocess? “hatever it is in sach country? I mean the ~ have one party and that's a valid electoral preress in that. J country. oO - | Senator Mathias. This would be Cannon's advice. Senator Huddleston. Well, Tt think we have ta recognize the risht of another countre to have: their electoral nrocess | and it would he valid $f eceomeane in that. wountey were > ttemotind to elreninvent their .es tablished ‘consti tutional precese ns, | Mr. Maxwell. The analifiar in the Senator's proposal | vas democratic, so thak at Leach in anma way ih vastriahs the notion 9 Poa ddekater. Senator Tudel bes toy Tre Lf tape rind nat At on. cme che should bes | : | q OP SECRET PARR R PAUL | Docld: 32423509 Page 140
, tye t tid dbea. won ok Leb. a unpee Tey ta qe Mr Naren, nrohihition. Mr. Midler, Bye Naren. Senator UWaddlestan, oe | ra : | . aaa | Mibbbo ide 50955 Docld: 32423509 Page idi Mr. Miller. achions in the vast it wenld prohibit chile. Senator Tuddlestan. Sopakop Tyce leston . re the eleation oroecess dove net anpear | Portugal Luwsefar ag Suatomala. and Chains, 138 What caraas vould. this srohibit? In our Tian —- soo the Chile oreration. Cy kerma das Te weld not nrohtiStt Andgola.. Thowoutd arab ib pe ie im Chaly, ane Pranccut Aeneands an Phe feorm anhyverston. 3 jock ageieking arp «ide thio crear of cleebion duriog an Toker bp oF Townulydin't’ ehink thab whak is adoinc on in ye ineeochet that de vould come under this Sq ik weld roadie affeak the eares Jikea Ane Tnddpects, toylisad My. Aaron, Th would peghibit core thins khat transpired ne ep ooo
N 2 na a ye u Me. Underfurth. tot duet to hea devil's advecate for a moment, we don't want t> insert then, using your language, ‘Sunator. the efforts to influence or subvert the results of valid electoral process? Senator. Mathias. Vhakt way be tes shert a-leash. “Mr, Inderfurth., Oh © think that’s a question the Committee has ta address. Te would he a verv. short leash. - Senator Huddleston. ‘Iell, there are Jifferent vavs to influence and there may be a nraner wav tn inflosnce. Mr. tnderfurth., If there were a mroner. then osrhaps covert nronaganda. and that tyne of thing, 14 Mee tirhow, Tf the Committee's intention is after the nerson is elected and van dgn't want fa prevent that kind af nerson haina pit intn office by any maans, -then yon do it here. : If vent do not intend as a committee to nreclude using the nress or using other thinas to influence the outcome of the election, then we ahandd 4 solid on that and stay out of that area. put it's wn bs thea committer to-dacide. lee, hader. This lanavare sneaks tn subrerting the results, nok infl ened na the unitcome «| Mr. hirbow, And he anys that WAS his intent. cram Sevater din [lesten thie Anag rat ereeduda sobkbtne dnuasdved ag ome did te Phat. : “es TOP SECRET . a . Wr nyry % PAE . HW 50955 Docld:32423509 " Page 142 one could define the imrroner wav. influencing bv rassing foney. rn ence ee eaegeneanent tate — A RE UES SELLER CG aA EEA SRA = eeDOMANA  ! mngeeene npr nor
as "3 ina rt oar a oe ide Mr. Rader. Om dey Sorkieal ‘Senator Huddlesten, That's nota subversion of the erocess, that's an assistance. + Senator Mathias.) That'é rarticiration in the nmrocess. Mi. Tnderfurth. hak about after an election but prior to the formation of a coalthion aqvernment?: Senator Mathias. : tosoild think that wonld he subverting. FF von aet in there andisav J well. we are wo.rvied ahout who thasa peeole have electe, t . . . J Atdn'tt know 4 jose General Hata until thie afternoon hot To wae aware that some American official had made a > threat to Mitterand that he wentd he in trouble if he weras | . i « sos F ad ateombed Prire Minister and attemntad toa brine aame radical leftiets into the French Cahinat. Mow it seems to ma that that id a threat to-subvert the t French electoral nrocess and te in fact we carried out that ; { threat T think that that won dd he probibited hy this language. Mr. Aaron, T take itothe ward subvert anes tO covert activities. “Tn other vrords, if General Maia said thebt nrivatealy hut: dadan'to mean it in terme af ceverk action. he fuck said the | * tinited States qovernmant will. -- Mtakee or he Seerctaryio® Skate on tha Ceoretary of Me fengse Maedourm dao feert af phe selavision cameras and might vers uel) « mietyk gow oVinads, Pe ues : aaa Rogers bps the Crenebh Cabinet ‘TOR $ SFCRET SEIT rau | . Sennter Mathiag. Te think the Proasident of the tnited DocId:32423509 Page 143
é . Pra’ Worf . an) d ! : Tove under the parliament oc oseekerm ven ative hin access to 2 | TATO's secrets, then there's caning to be hell to nay.. and we're. | 2 | telling vou richt now. T ddanit think thetic eechthited. i » 1 But df .we shadow men around and ontch him in some GS |heomorenising nersonal vnsition and use the nhetoqraphs to | . | ay | bleekmail him. or anvthing of that serk -- : ‘ PH Mal Rader. Thats a coverk action oroject. Q i " Geyator Waddlerkan.  Thersala one nueakion thak this oo TQ yowhole matker af Intearneho anberevantian tro anether counkry --) | Mr. Kirhow., Senator, chatever ven say here is aoi Hl i po tote he ane of the highest menetderations civan he the Pull ® { i | | ra | Sanator Inddlestan T feel tharé ondhh ke he some ig: |.reetriations and consktraink on our interferences in the 16 | internal oneration of the cevearnmant .. ; | re ; a . yy Mr. Naron. The nevbt one. snprort for bis beliefs or att - ra jp ether internal seourtty =. ather seaurdee arouns which engacde 1o | in tortures. 28 Ara) ' Genator Huddleston. Cepttowe bave seme Levialetion to or |. Mr. Raroan, There cre amendmeantea resardinga farediean oe | aia. Now this da cnen Foraten ata, Wetre talktec abouk eovert ; ; “| 4] assis bance preerrar | A} ; on | Me Jitenoyal hie dosent mabe mensal kes, ! TOP SECRET. | mo worsen OAL : 7 HW 50955 DocId:324293509 Page 144
V0 | . . : Mr. firbow. Which cueeae Un toarbure y Senator Mathias. “on fo-make a secinantic snagestion here. fi that we try to bring this in Vine with the Lancuage in the Constitution. eruel ani pongna Le eundshment. he cause i think this really teflects. if tkts casing ho mean anything, we ought ta be reflecting our natienal ethic in both oF these, both in subverting the. results nfo a valid electoral process-- Senator Huddlegtean,  lscork vou aeb dete the cnestion OF canita;s nvnishment. Meo Maxvell. Theretes erather problem ancl that is one af the things that the Fertire ia encaced in is before a . € emerson has heen judged te be oonitty of a crime. semeone whp is ceing tartured in an interresabion.. that nerenn would not ke subject to cruel and reuseal manish” bot hes evstematic violation of human viahte or name atker Senator Mathias. That's a phrase. though. with which» Amordeans have heen fai liar since 1787, and it seems to me if hagsigames value. Senator Hart. Tue pneshtem is ve: Tentt sive serious thought to the way we treat mriseners ino this -ecountry. « Senator Mathias. thatte 9g rrohtem in thicac cbhels thing. Sareene ance eaiedook tie time bhatt tha thelian rayments ‘ Loy wepo oowrancart Caner faye: Mia Mysicdang ds thie pil the time and yoked Db link|a ateooak. Pes meen Phe dhiffepores is tea aq TOP SECRET “OU EPAY Oe PALER” HW 50955 ‘Docld:32423509 Page 1445 Yee 7 thank that'a ao prahlerm,  T this aeerrrrreieetentni mnt
HY 0955 aw] | | cn Nat a - ob ‘ oy ey (pe? have vou, whether thesa internel seeuriby forage pivt ry ties are ey, fo duet oon thedr on ra Hl " ie | | an it Ite orfitteanaye . bead ET ie eoykbor Po wey ER # ae ' bor SECRET ' vo trom F sank Docld:32423509 Page 146 arotril are! nreaching alt remy Pla prop ta! ebvoatpk uy frderdy ethical . ° I . standards and then when .°> are shown thet we don't live up to our own standards, that's «hat brings us the retribution. But E still. think that ve oughk te notwiths tanding that thie ig an opportunity for sume Linkace with the Conskitution,. Put T fon't nress the noire. Tt just offer at. Senator ltuddlesten. Ved Ll, DT. think this is something "1a chenld all qive sora theortk be dn tic nest Pew fours. Mr oR irbos. cD ve are robna te dy bhak, way £ suagest Y that pera we talk abouk sumrort for pelios or interne! security forces. | 7 | § whe ¢emainder oe that gentencé eho tan ti ee vend ie ao that it is the police ofthe counkrv invelveds Orherwise won re ‘talising aboue aia dom eowert many dove sued hy maybe an inadvertent, without! ankherdty type series of Exnosures of torture and whatnot. and yom ets oi hues abd fo a country. ‘ ‘Mr. Meron. Can I sneak to thak moink? Yo think that Charley raisas an interes skim exarnle and wa haye sort of that dsid of situation hedey in vraszi' where it is difficult to ascertain whether dit is the molics cf the an ea . . . . aovernmenk or whether the in Tt arnab security fFoarass which are very fracmented among Ehe militcry anc the states and what
HY 50955 wnt “1 ma) 9 AG 24 security forces? nrocurement and sale and ican of devices which ultimately a: a tome Be hag a, a. 4 . at Mr. Naron. I think this is the auestion. Tt aces to the point not of assistance to the government in general or. mS even covertly, but assistance to these particular forces, and that I.think does narrov if dawn ta the problem: Mr. Kirhow. training. Mer. Aaron. - We have Inthe past. veo oun aive them technical, trainin. electronic. devices. ie. Kirhow. A whole enectrum exnent for W".8 S$. military x sunnort. Mr. diGenova.. Some of the nreorictaries were used for exactly that purposes. to rrovide training and secure found their way into the hands of forsian torturers. We certainly don't danrive the Agency of any legitimate source of intelligence hreanuss thay: themselves claim that they have never ansaded. in this activity knowingly and don't want ho. | They nay they don’t sant: anything to. ao with this type of acktPity and thev caw they don't want te he civolved with internal. police Forces that conduet this tvne of activity. They have gaid recently that thev have discont/nued ‘those. sorte of di: tseans, 29 Fo nerehibir thes hy banning it seeme to wa ko SAV Fine. oe saree Sith vou and we wilh do it. TOR SECRET AAD R PAWEL. -Docld: 32423509 Page 147 Senator Huddleston. “hat kind of support do we give. the eee pte mettre en A TSA AEP EE pone acta ween . —ocreramemneecettetetieree tren Fr taantn gai wie tet awe ee + : sett * . .
a} a 9 19 28° q . ~ 4 Og Ba Ke : 7 b: Mr. Aaron. What cceurs to’ me is that it eonld Se helpful to have a finding-on thir naint. 3 Mr. diGenova. | That's the next issue I was going to raise. We don't write anything about this anv lace in’ the ‘revort. Senator Huddleston. Pres the Agency. have a directive to that. effect that they have ade scontinued or are discontinuing ‘that we can refer to and say we aprrove of 7 » (nderfurth. As eel] an in the Chile covert setion etudy there is discussion of | and that the CIN was saving, wel | we want to talk to them but wa don't cant to be involved. 7 what, they're deing and ve want ko trv ta storm them from their practices of torture. and the rest, So I mean that's something we can look to as a basis for our findings. Mr. diGenova. There's alsn a parallel with the drug thind. Mr. Aaron, Senator. shall wa try to see if we can. coma back with some languase that tries toa work. ta the Constiemtional. oink? Towust eave LT nersonally have a little e ALFf iculty: figuring jut ho we burn thie around to try to ‘ody to what the police ao? | a, | / Senator Mattias. hetia think about. it. | Gonater. Huddleston. Lotlg “at pace ats 7d. “That's a wenn RAUL Docla: 32423509 Page 148
Ha CNH LL ER he a i i : i i | | \ juhole two hours and: a here, P nm. of the same day.) | , | : | | | | WA b. PAUL HW 50955 Docld:32423509 Page 149 {Whereupon, ae sm p.m... the hearing ’in the ahove TOP $ 5 ECRET- bay ‘inentioned matter. was recensed, to. reconvene at 7:30 o'clock