Released under the John F. Kennedy Assassination 
Records Collection Act of 1992 
(44 USC 2107 Note) 
NW 53216 6/17/17
104-10227-10004 Reebh 713 4 8 rs tio Suocust Lda and : & Ve Aueust £255 BR. TRANSLATION ..ebecause they do not know his ane, mit tt ia known that information has cone tn, lect us say, from an agent who studied and wag dispatched, went throujsh an American school, say = from [ran, or somewhere else, The agent has reported that a croup was being trained, and == according to the information, te dispatched persons -- such-and= such == with whon he had studied == he docs not know his name, nor docs he know under wht cover he will arrive; he knows only the _descr tption of the arent or sore inforsation concerning: the place . in which he ts supposed to show up. That is, his nane is not known, That is what an agent nctwork search file (ngenturno-rorysknoye delo) is, Are you sure this is so. That is the general idea; I did not handle this kind of file. ‘But probably you sonetines saw then. I do not remember, In your work, what kind of filles did you nandle -- of those that you have mentioned to ne- Delo formulyar, or agent network developnent file. So m= the delo fornulvar and the asent network dovelopnent file. What else. s ee er Oe ee he ee ee dat EER A Oar Cid ESTEE &
104-10227-10004 be The agent neteors devetoparnat file on a Soviet atltiven, tn 1961 ee that tu, in 1900 w= there was the celo for-culyar and there were the GAA, Well, let us sity, on the sister, Tamara (1G) That was an Avent ne bwore developnent file. Now... A, Were you never at her honc. A. You Lived noxt door; you could never drop in. Too bad. If the delo formulyar and then they were changed to the DARs, thoa - evidently there was no DAR in 1953, oe B. Thoro was the avent network development file. A. What was the differcnce between the dolo formulyar and tho DAR at that time. fae B. I do not remember; I do not remember, I do not know, Was thero this supplement to the liternoye dclo or.... A, Then you yourself did not handle a liternoye delo? B, No, no. Tho supplement to the liternoye delo. A. ((Pause)) What kind of other files did you handle. B. ((Pause)) The agent network surveillance file. A, ((Pause)) On whom
104-10227-10004 BR, Cn oa tourtest, Tac personal file on arents, safe shouses. ((@Pause)) Want ta the dti¢fcrence between a honnpirativynaya and a yavochnaya hvartira te tren ne The yavochnaya evarttea ts one in waieh one or ova Uleeu Soviet etticen lives, and which tie xGR after the approprlate cheeking, makes the deciston to recruit him and use his aprartaent for their Operational aims == they mect agents ((there)), The apartmont docs not belon;: to the KGB, but to the Soviet citizen Qa), | The konspirativnaya kvartira belongs wholly to the KGB, Bho lives there. A housekeeper can live in Lt or an agent can bo settled there, Yes, ; Well, what ts the file called, for .the one type of apartment and the other. , What kind of a file is opened on that man whoso Apartment is used: The keeper of the Yak ~= say it ig Borts.,.. Boris... ((in English)) That's right, And the konspfrativnaya kyvartira. Personal file KK and such-and-such a number, or KX and the cryptonyn. And the person who takes care of the place. ° The keeper -- on him there is another file. A file is opened on hin separately. The Keeper of the KK Is -— let us say ~- “SVETLAYA’, So.
104-10227-10004 Well, wiat other filles do you snow ((Pause)) What “ind of ftles are opened on a person wio is under developoacat and wnon they are thlnxin« to aerest soon. B, It could be a search file (rozysinoye delo), tt could be an arent A. Be A, B. A, B. network development fille. On an individual, On f jrroup.... Well, tho search file #/©< this is und«erstood, Once a person is found, naturelly they have to do something with him o-=-€ arrost him, open a file on tho investis;ation, then make a dicision to imprison him or free him «= in snort, to try hia. It is understood -« they are searching for him. Tho agent network development comes to an end, to a conclusion, when a pergon is connected with intellirence.... Tncro is also a filo when an employee writes up a final report.... Alroady a decision has been made by a chief of department or higher, on what will be the outcono of this case and that there will be an arrest. Already, as they say, the KGB could sake an arrost, but not every thing is ready to do this. Well, the agent network development file. If the KGB still cannot make an arrest, then some more work is needed, additional tnformation.is needed, ‘Then the azent network, tie technical means, are used... | Rut it Le not an agent network cevelopment file, There is sonething clsc. I think that, with such leading questions, it 1s very easy to answer. I do not remember; [.do not renenhber, Stated
104-10227-10004 i. Tie Perscanel ittrectorate, \.o Waen dtd they move ta | \ Oo. Tacy alenys were in uublddss Fle, mae the chdiefs and the main body’ are here. Tag main leaders of the NG, A. What else. ‘Lut who sits in BERIYA’s office. B. In ‘tae old bullding. A. 1. do not know where they are, ‘You fnoN better -- you went in there, you worked there, } B, ZA‘SIAROV sits here, A, ‘More specifically, B. Blnee ‘Cenirty Chairman of the GR ZAMIAROV, A. iis sits in xonuLov's office B, ((Long pause)) They split up his office into several parts (XG). A. And where was SEROV. Wio occupics nis office. HORULOY was there... SENOY, SENICHASTNIY, SUELEPIN, SEMICNASTNIY.... A, Where did SIELEPIN sit. Mrnetu: It was in the connecting bulldingy between the old buildin: and the
104-10227-10004 po , ee thew; that is wiere the nes budlain:: alreauy De cin. A. In the old building or in the new one B In the new one, in the new one, A. OX, : .. Whero did iiRUGLOV sit. B. (26). A. Where did MASLENNIKOV sit? rc ‘B. I do not know. A. Very well, What other dircctorates, clenents, and departments are there in the new building: You have mentioned the First Directorate, the Border Troops, part of the Personnel Directorate, some of the leaders. Yow many floors are there. B. ((Pause)) Nine. A. You know that (XG). Of coursc, nine floors is many, There is enough space not only for one dircctorate —- sonethingr else is there (XG). , . . ; ’ B. Part of. the Guards Directorate is there. A, Where is the Guards Directorate located. B. In the new building, in the ircalin.... A, What do they do in the Krenlin.
104-10227-10004 I do not know wiat they do there. They also are on Varsonof'yevs':ty Street (verculotk), What do they have on Varsonof'yevsxty Strect CIESULAYEV's deputy, SAISINO, alta there, “e, I wan there only at SAKINO's. When did the Guards move to the new building: I do not know. What else. ( (Pause) ) Yes, part of the Third Directorate, the Third -~ it is in Building #3, in the old building and in the new onc. Since when. Why is everything so poorly organized there «. part of a directorate is here and part there. Would Lt not be better to leave one directorate in one place and another in another. ‘I do not know why. Well, part of the First Directorate also is on the seventh floor in the old building. There ts part of it on the tenth floor in Suilding #2, in the old building, The Second Department of the First Directorate is there (fon the tenth floor)), Let us take the tenth floor. Who sits there. The Second Department of the First Chief Directorate, I do not know who else because I never went there, -
104-10227-10004 a a f= AL) ((Pause)) who else ts tn the new building Mint -— you never were on the tenth floor of the old butldtins during: your whole tiae of work there. Ne. of was, in the Sccond Departni’nt -=— [ told you, \ A. And you do not “now more of whe is there You did not mect anyonc tn ll iyears. B, Tho tenth floor is a very short one; it ts not very large: A. If you know that it was a short and not a large onc, you must know sonething clso, _B, What, what. A, If it is short and’ not a large ono, Lt would be casior to remember what was located there, Well, the Second Department of tho First Directorate is located there, A. What clso. B. I do not know what else, Oh, yes, part of the office was occupied hy the Seventh Directorate, Sea dee ee eT? the Seventh Directorate. The tenth, the ninth floor, it scens. A. What else is in the new building, bevinning with 1953 and to the end. B. ((Pause)) I do not know, I do not know what clse is there. I was not often there. A. ((Pause)) And what was at the Ayricultural Exhibition most recently. j B. I think (XG) (.Most recently, everything thero was liquadated )
104-10227-10004 thle B, B, Maat waa there Hat te there Yoo Archtves were there at ane ttsae, and there were a nunber of ’ departsents there, at the Exhititton, What wos loeated there in Pes, (63, and 1964 To ny thinking, alroady. nothing MOE located there, Of course, perhaps there was uct any thing there, Then, where did thoy move fron thero. rf Into tho new building and to Xtsel'nyy Strect (pereulok). ‘What is located thero now? I do not know, To my thinking, nothing in the XG2 was there. ((Pause)) Well, wint olse-: When you were working there, when did tho Dordcr Troops nove to the now building. I cannot tell you when, And fren where. They were in Building #12. Where. At the second entrance, the third entrance. When did they move fron there eee
104-10227-10004 nh. n, Todo not know: you ash one, (Chuat)) Todtd not wort there, in that dircetorate, 2. Or you dtd not work there ((for the KGS)). In the 11 years that you woried there, how many times did you viste the “order Troops in the new building: ‘T went there once or twice,” To KHOROSIHILOV, to GUSEV and that was all. Where wero thoy’ In the new building.- Where. On witch floor. On the third floor in the new building. They had Maj Gen MORTIROSOV then, Now ho (XG). Thon, “HOROSIILOV, GUSEV; tho chicf of a department of the KGB (XG). 1 ((Pauac)) What is the department called, to wiich you write -- which) -handlcs the cipher service of KGB. The eighth Chlof Directorate. Where is it: I know that we gave ((docunents)) for enctpherment ((to an offico)) in the old bullding. an In the annex == I will tell’ you in just a noment =. it is between the fifth and the sixth, because this annex igs not on the fifth or sixth, but between these floors. This {is were we turned over ((docunents for encitpherment)). Rut, in the matn, they hnve a large building in ‘ioscow,
104-10227-10004 Srv ranany Well, where IT snow personally 2 Toeas not there, but there was an employee by the name of FILATOV, Wikhall, To met hin where (265G) he was workin, In the avtonoblle, in the winter tine, on the Heiko... he went to the Rocwown hse ((Metro Station)), I do not now more. I know that one of the tustallations of tho Eighth Directorate ig . beyond Kuntsevo. “May” TF anoke. ((Pause)) SELEZNEV, who keeps close contact, with the Kichth Directorate =~ from the First Department eo he came from somewhere, but... IE do not know,- In your life, how many papers did you receive fom the Elyhth Directorate, when working, in the First and Seventh Departments. Only tho coded cablos (shlyrovka). What kind of coded cables. There are various coded cables. They como from the residency, -- that a visa must be tiven to so-=1nd-so; or {t comes from the portphery; or it --~ the coded cable == comes from -= let us say =~ from Poland, from Bulgaria, from Germany. What other. kind of docuncnts did you yet or wero supposed to cet, waen you worked in the First and Soventh Departnents They did not gect then, they did not cet then; no. There is... well, this ts the way I heard it... they call it the red folder, or what did they call tt It is that which is given then for decipherins; they report to the Chairaag; and the Chalimaan -8 let us say -- refers it to GRIBWOV, with instructions to inforn the chtef of the coenartnent about this.
104-10227-10004 Te NOR ee B. Pet they Cot not clive Jt te oun personally. ’ And you aecrer gaw tt Nid you cver see dictpnered forcien cables No, no, no, 4 Whot -- cid not they trust you. It does not go further than the chiof of departre nt, You wore the deputy chief of the cepartnent, But the Beventh Departrent did not vet such things, Did. not vet it. Woll, did you ever write anythine for enciynorsent’ Yes, I wrote, Lut, to ((b< sent)) abroad. I SORat: ses Give ne one example... Abroad Yes, when vou wrote cahte (et troyvicn) ((to be cent)) abroad. Let us ga,, to the USA, Ticy Lrote.... You write to New York....
104-10227-10004 on wewme m ie e A, You write aenble to New York, the Secon Netther the chief of the wearinont, ner tye cate goof Cited wlrectornt ostona OCovie canted) fore ser Yor’ put you Late tae cable before ft ts cms beac ees You even Co not crow to ster bt Cs soto tin New Yorn... . and, lotus say, you tare Et to the Anertoan depertient: the Cuter of the First Departcen® sioun ft, and they send tt, (XG). (XG). I do not remenber there, but there was such a proce dure——- there.... What is known to you about the book, “Black Magde (Chernnaya artya)" mat is I:nown to mo. What kind of "SJlack Magie’. What do you know... wiat other docunents are neoded in order. to write and send cables. You write on a pad (blank).... I understand... on a pad, but what clse Is necessary. to write a cable. That other holpful mnaterialsshould be used to write tho cable. But, I... only... I know..., What was it called Dislocation — No, Well, ‘a directory... a telephone directory... Like a telephone directory, but not a telephone directory... by oblasts and cities of the Soviet Union, There are the ((names of)) chiefs of directoratag there are ((tho nanes of)) those to wion you write... in order nroperly to indicate.
104-10227-10004 the first nase ane oatrony cle of the person tu who: you are writing... A, Ges. It te understandaule, [If you are sritin: abroad, you do not know to whom to write. Haw do you do it ; B. You write only the cuntent (Ctext)), only the content. A. Probably you address 1t -- to the USA, to Washington, to Kew York..... B. One may write -- to Wasnineton, to New York, A. But to whom. B. You do not know the cryptonym, They thezsclves put in the cryptonym; and they sign in cryptonyn. Tails is the First Directorate. A, What other materfals do you uso to write a cable. (XG) What do you know of the extstence of a hoot which tells you, for example, “Our agent, PETROV," -- PETROV is his cryptonym <= "he hag left !loscow for...." B. "“... For New York", A. "... For Xiev"™, B. "For ZXiev" ~j- go, A. How do you write this itn a cable to be ((i.c., before it is)) enctiphered. B. That is an interesting question. * Why? i Decause ((sending a cable)), abroad, as far as I know, you will
104-10227-10004 write not fust one cable, but two or threo, We are talkin: about Kiev now. fai nese we write su e= tuat IVANOV, Moris Ivanovich == let us Say a= is leavins: for Ktlev. So =< IVANOV, Doris Ivanovich, IVANOV, Roris Ivanovich, is leavinre. We ask.... And... For hin, let us say, thero.... The deputies have discussed Lt on the high-frequency telephone Line (VCh), and there they have given the name.... So. Wo ask that he be contacted, using the nane, ‘Yuriy Ivanovich", And that is all, Well, so what? You will not write his tric name -- IVANOV, Boris Ivanovich. No, but I will write straignt out -- "TVANOV is poing; he is known to you; place contact hin, usinr¢ such and such a nane", And how will they know what to call him. Here, you have received a cable -~ "IVANOV, Roris Ivanovich, is coning; contact him; he is our man"; he will make a mistake and neet soncone ‘else, Bell, you deseribe hin -=- dark....
104-10227-10004 A, IVANOV, Ivan Ivanovich, under develomicnt br us, has left tfoscow for KlLov, . Yo ask that you put arents on him. So, Conpose the cable. Let us say, "On the twenty-fiftn of iiay, from toscow, by train nunber such and such, IVANO/, such and such, under development by us is leaving...." If 1t is known to us where he will be staying... . - (XG) Perhaps it 1s an ambassador, a member of Contress of the Ministry of Forcircr Affairs of some country.... ((Panse)) ((no response)) We will stop on this question; this is one more confirmation that you were not there, I have not understood what you want from me. I simply am telling you == here, an ambassador of some country is under devclopment; he has left for Kiev; put agents on hin -= how will you write this in a cable. I write it thus to Kiev ~- that such and such is leaving for Kiev; ‘please take such and such measures; with instruction, precisely SO «- not, in general,. agents and operational equirment. Well, lect us say.... No "let us say", but it is necessary to surround him with equipment, agents.... Well, you say, “Take ‘letter HM" measures...” “letter 'M'",,, "letter ‘'N'".... nd
104-10227-10004 say ee ol 2 a let ae Ie B. = 17 = Who rives a deseription tn a cable. There ts sunothing else, There te a codec word (pnvol'), a code word for contact, Well, of course, tees ang be a code word, Iam trying to ret from you how you write a cable: “our agent, PETROV, is leaving for Xlev on such and such a date; please nect him." | | That is all, Well, of course, it is indicated on which train he ig traveling. Car such and such. (xG)’ How will you write, ‘Our Agent, PiTROY’: Will you write his cryptonym or uso his truce name. Well, I will write his true name; I will not write his cryptonym -- because they will not find hin by cryptonym, So. (xG). Let us sny, he must get in contact with.... Either he may be contacted, using such and such a name, or he will phone such and such a aumber. But how will you know that he is the agent. But I indicate ~~ “known to us’, "known to us." Let us say he is not already “known to you’ but is still under development.... I indicate «= contact hin (XG),
104-10227-10004 ae log .! razrabot'.t) Waat cv you mean by the tera, “tarcet Cob vent) Totnes that tide tern ts net uscd; tt ts an old tern, on Let us say, © froup is under development... na croup development, r Cd In this croup, one of them $!s an avcut; he aay be onullesd an instde tnformer (vnutroennii:). A, ile way be... but is he. . . B, He may bo (XG). A, Why did it tako you so lon: to answer this question. cectinee oy B. Because it ts an old tern. 7 A, fn old term, an old tern. ®. ((Pause)) What are watch ascents (storozhevaya agenture), B. Agente (acentura) around an installation, whether it be a factory # or an ombnssy . : A. Well, what do they do. F B. Surveillance around the installation. A. What else. : B, Watch ascents are concerned with development.... ((Pause)) A. Who is called "bobik”. tO ' B. ‘he (uards around an enbassy.
104-10227-10004 “ Igo not Cnow; they call. thes hob’) they are in Ullttia unt for:, miat tm a boyev ilk Well, this concerns... for exanple, wien they were fientins the OUl (Uiratnian Uattonalists! Oreanication) in the Urraing; there were “boyev iii” there a= mncenber of combat HOUDB, ut what docs "agenteboyev lic" mcan “Arenteboyev ik" << this ig a NGR agent who ts a nextber of a sube verisive group of nationalists ~- Usrainian, dc lorussian,,. also, in the undecryround.,.. But “avent-boyovik", "arent boyevoy eruppy" -=- what dos this mean. Ile is in a froup which ts under developzent, which ts being souvht, ‘which they are preparing to arrest -- he has been planted in that froup; hoe is a member of the croup; and he its a "“boyevix", they aro “boyeviki" -=j I do not know why. This is not true; you must know this well. What is the "devyatka". Tho "devyatka" =. this is the statute (stat’ya) under which financial resources are given to the 4GPR for operational use, Oh, you Inow... yes: (1-26), ( (Pause) ) You have not told me anything: about the registration files, We did not have res istration files in. the First or Seventh Departnents, The registration files “= this is what the revistration files are; there is a revistratlon file on each enployee; it is in the Sccretariat of the Chief Directorate; that is, it shows all the filos that the operational officer has,
104-10227-10004 B, (XG) (XG) What is a ‘dubok": . Well, it da... an old term... deadedrop (taynik) (2<3G). (XG) dead-drop, “Rodvegok™ 1 do not know “podvesok", Do you know the work, "tufta’’ Well, “tufta" -- this is somethiny; not correct, forged, a forgery. And what is “turtit'™. To forge. "Fillion": _ A person who rofusos to work. "Dokhodyaga"™ ‘Dokhodyaga" -= this is a person who drinks too much, is sich, will die soon. “Fitil'”. I have heard... I do not know. 'ytikat'".
104-10227-10004 Po EMME Ret rey it QR RRATUSU Bo, TaN a foyer A. Tats ts wteiply (Cin Ene lésnd) stance, Thaesev are not one rattonal words. (XG) "To eut (Cruhat') os tt could he ‘to cot’, And tt could be “to work (rahotat') Oh, yes @= and “to work", also. And also (XG). ‘Samorub". ((Laughs)) "To cut oneself’... off at tne roots. So. ‘Stukach'". mis is "sel: ((for “seksi” ~~ secret informant))°, - Lyagavyy". Also, “eek : What do you mcan -- "sek". “Lyapavyy" #9} also, "sek’, “seksot" ((Sce above)). Well, “Lyagavyy" {s not only a "seksot". Well, thoy algo cull Militia personnel “lyagavyy" -- this is thievés' jargon. “Lyagash". Also, a llitia employee. ‘Pushchin v raskhod”.
104-10227-10004 RAM ee A. ad Mret CC. ate). “Athos I do not inow “pttina’, Paya” bread ration, So, Shrapnel’ ", It is the soup they fave us in school; they called it that. The boys were lauchtne -= one picee of cratn, and the rest is water, Maat do they call the fish, “treska", in the Arny. I do not know, Wave you heard the word, "pinsha". No, linve you heard "katushka" Also, no. Oh -- "katushka" == it means to give the most extrene sentence (nn polnuyu katushku); {£t means to shoot (Cexecute)), ete. "Urka", “urkagan", What, what: "Urka".
104-10227-10004 ie eran, BY B. “Ura” ee these are thieves, rocucs, “Frayyer’. Mood (sthlyara).,, Pesides, when wo were workinin in the First Departnent... we used... wien were nunting for clectronic tntelligence devices (apparatura).,. I went to PARFENT'YEV... PARFENT'YEV was then, in 1354, Chief of the Criminal. Department (uzolovnyy rozysk) of the Moscow Militia; and we took from hii two agents... rojjues and thieves, as a pair... one was Mikhail; and the sccond, I co not remember; he was snall.... Well, we sent them; I went to Smolensk.... rc (XG). But they used such terns as would raise your eyebrows. “Biksa". Well, I do not know... a prostitute. And where did you learn this. Ah... uh... I read i: in a book .: Sidor"™: That is what we called a rucksack... at the school. ‘Ugol". 2-36). "Sir ipuzha"’ I do not know,
104-10227-10004 aOlesa"™, Yell, that fm boots (saport), Bochata’. Tiat ts a watch. “Ryzhyy" Oh... these are all thieves’ words.... Gold objects. ‘Pero: A knife. cee eee “Mandra", Qe), “Kolotushki": I do not know. ‘Stirki'. _I dv not know, “Ksiva": a A forged document. “Shtynop”. It is the sane as ‘Frayyer" ((See above.)). mz
104-10227-10004 Tt in used now tn lfiternturc., There is such a writer «- Yollan SUYnNOy 2. vio was coopted by us; he wrote the bool, Petrovia 79 an {t is full of these express tons. Men did you read Petrovicn ty . 1 \ In 1963, “Vasser" (2 ~=3G), "Sdelat'" gomoono.. “8 5 thieves' lnansuare, this meang to kill” (1.2G), Teves _inniuare, this means “to kill "Botat’ na fone": I do not know, “Zavyazath''; Q.2Fy, "Liveruy'": (1G). “Zashukharit'", To betray (anbit'). “Mokryye dela". This is murder.
104-10227-10004 A. 2 e “Naholot’" “Muisevoy’™ (1G), Wnat docs ‘podnadsvornyy” nean A person under observation; they watch nin... We already: havo talked some of cooptecs (privlechennoye litso); you said that there is.... Trusted person.... Trusted and cooptcd persons, You also have said that in tho KGB there arc employees who are not on the staff (v lichnom shtate); what are they. ‘ Non-staffers (vneshtatniki), non-staffers, Phat kind of category is this -- "non-staffers *. It means... they use them... it beran recently.... Tney are used by tho Seventh Directorate; that is, they use former intellicence officers (razvedchik) ((1.0., staffers)) «- they are on pension; they use thein and pay then <-- for example, 50 rubles a month. On what basis ((1.e., scale)) are they paid. Tnere was a special resolution (reshentye), special pornisston, that we will pay then «= for exanple, 50 rubles -- besides the pension, for thoir work. : J
104-10227-10004 Who nace tats deciston e= to pay o9 (Crubles)), and not uae Tals wan the Chatrnan's dectston, fut, if tat person works more than a case offiecr Thay... you see how tt is... they, these nenestaffers... they are not used everyday.... Well, even if he is not used cvery day, but he does bettor work than a@ case officer: (3G). The Seventh Department... tho Seventh Directorate... its permitted to use a nunber.., for this, they have to write a report <= they ask pernission.... They are permitted a number of nonestaffers according to the nuuber of staffers. | . That is, they are riven permission to use 2 nuatcr of nonestafef agents... uh, I “mati. , employeos, Let us say... well, look.:.. (. KRASIN. ) was working... of the former eaployees..... for example, they are in Luzhnikt «-- that is, at those installations watch are visited by forcigners.... ‘Instead of sending a brigade of surveillants there, they use the non-staffers... former cmnployees of the Seventh Directorate. But probably they are already old men. Yes, yes, ycs. Now... one minute _ the Seventh Department receive! permission in 1962 to use non-staff employees in hotels; that is, they took three persons in cach hotel ‘round-the-clock. | . In big hotels, there are even four persons; in the snall ones, two. (2G) and they pay them 50 rubles a month; they are fram Among the forner employees of the KGB,
104-10227-10004 cran gtonce Alrticht. Think we will stop on this for today. Yes, pleaso do,: T have stili another snall question, Anyway, IT atill anthinkins that you will chance your decision and start to tcll the truth. . I am tolling you the truth, the truth, the truth. I will toll you once ayain today that time ts passing, . You may cone to the moment when no one will talk to you. But I cannot tell you something clse. Between us, this is the very last opportunity for you. I am telling you that I am telling only the truth, only the truth, Because absolutely nothing is holding mo back or can hold me back. Well, something is holding you back, Absolutely nothing. Fven in today's conversation. You even do not know clearly wiat was in the new building, Butlding #2, I told you, You do not know when they ((i.e., vartous KG" conponents)) left, ‘ when they noved.... You always try (XG). Well, why- cans naatneneee
104-10227-10004 Loo ‘ { werzed in Building 22 and the surroundtnics (Cit {uplies “tn the ole baildini; probably confused In apeech.)); Lf only went in tho I wert to new hiilding, tn the new butidini, twlee a= two times, tas Colle: tua; then... Absut the flles, you told me a Little gomethini, now, you have mixed up sven of this, but you dv not +;ooyw the bagie things, nny way . Taig wos not the talk of an enployes of the Gi, who had worked there, but your knowledgo has been acquircd in somo other way «= learned.- | Of course, it was not dono in just one month, but over a long « perfod of timc; because an caployee who handled the files and workod there 11 years will not wander ainlensly and will not have to think so ((2ucn about the questiona)), in order to deseribe the dhtferonce: between the delo formulyar and other fLlesa.... Well, there was no differenco; there wan tho delo formulyar, and now there is the agent notwork devclopnent fille. I have answered all of your quentions. Why are you this way: ((4G; A&A and B spoak at tho samo time)) They aave told you only the hiph points, and you have learned them, but you do not know the rest (2G). It ts very interesting that you still continue to tnsist on your way. It igs your own affair. I an telling you the truth... absolutely. (XG). ((ic Zerlisa)) That's all for today. Goortre . Goodte.
104-10227-10004 , . = 28 - (CA had rmfenalled previously; for the cuard: there Is psoas shuffling About and notec tndfeating ceparture from the road.)) 4 ‘ (iad of Ll Awssust 1265 Sesston) ) ((fegin 12 Aust 165 sesston,)) tet -
104-10227-10004 hoot te ae at at Cdl A. Be Ma a As you have told us several times before, this was the first so- “that time — Aen fo yey) Well, how arc things coins. ((no audible response)) . Comrade Chie®, ((Pause)) Well, let us talk today about another subject. ...about 1a the sowcaAllcd BURGT Case, called cage, in which you took nan active part. I would like you to tell me all about it from the very beginning: 7 ! by flow did this case start, and what actual vart cid you take in this | cana. . , - “ : VWhon and under what circumstances did tt start: I do not remember -all of it. , Let us start out with the following <= what was your position at... & Iiwas a case officer, of the Seventh Departuent. ; _ What was your rank. ((speakes with uncertainty)) Senior licutenant. Scentfor lieutenant, Who wasp your chicf at that time. Serzey Wilsolayevich GuS*XO¥ was the chief, GUS'OY was the chief of the section. Yes,
104-10227-10004 m a5 2 = z Es ipo a The department was responsible for the embassies tho wes this GuStilov ite Js fot the neneral, of course. This GUS'KOV «ane into the orvans in 152, as a result of so-=called Party selection “- A group cane. ie hinself was a Konsonol worker, He studied in an aviation institute... no, no -= he studied at the Baunan Institute, the Bauman Institute. On finishtiar the Institute, he was put into Homsonol work, He was {n Komsomol work. (Cin Engl f£sh)) Tiat's alright. Who was the deputy chief of the section. KONSTANTINOV, “Ivan Arsent'yevich, "Ivan: Ivan Arsent'yevich KONSTANTINOV, Ivan Arsent'yevich KONSTANTINOY . They both wore from the Second Departnent, they came in 1955, when the Tourist Section was organized: ° Before this, did they both work in the Second Department? (XG). What did this department do. India, Pakistan.... ((in Englisn)) Alright. Who was the chicf of the department at that time. of England, Canada, — SEN en pee ee mE OR nee Tac em irene alee
104-10227-10004 | a 3, Elkolay ikhay lovteh PERFLILTTEY, A. Chie of the Seventh Departisent DB. Yes -= Nikolay Mikhaylovich PENFIL'YEV. A. Nikolay Mtkhaylovich PERFIL'YEV. “Who was his deputies. _ -B. Anatoliy Sergoyevich KOZLOV ., ° aon 7 . Aw” Yes; who else: B. And one of my (1G), CHELNOKOV. A. What was PERFIL'YEV's rank. B. PERFIL'YEV was a Licutenant colonel. 5 A, And KOZLOV: . | B. OA colonel; A. And CHELNOKOV: ‘B. (XG) ((Long pause)) He came as a captain; they made him a major, 5 A. Well, alright, a captain or a major. B, Yes. ; t A, Name all of the case officers who took part in the BURGI Case. B. KOZLOV, ((B's surnane)).... L A. .(1G). Petrie ee Sah Ot ayer ee eer, sgtvcene eye eee ot ti, Bo tarasyt i leet ---. Nayar adeeaner sobre
104-10227-10004 n, A, B, No 2= KO4LOY, GUS'TEOY =< a8 chicS of section. Su == CUSTHOY; Anatolly Serpeyovich KOZLOY. ((n's surnance)) feed A. ((3's surnane)) And it was reported to PENFIL'YEV, it was reported to GRIBANOV. “ T have in mind who directly worked with all these papers, who had personal contact with BURGI, and...;— With BURGI, personal contuct, «2. ...And had direct ‘participation in anid operation, KOZLOV and ((B!s surnamc)). GUS'KOV, aa chief of section I fimpl}.eay this. Then, in Kiev, PETRINKO -- Chief of the Tourists Section.... What was PETRENKO ealled =~ do you romember? ‘Viadimir, Vladimir, Vladimir; I do not remember the patronymic. What was his rank’ Major. So. When a girl from Kiev played the part of the housel:ceper of an apartnent <= RASTYKAYTE, RASTYKAYTE. RASTYZAYTE ((A puts the accent on the second syllable, and RB laughs)).
104-10227-10004 eo} yes A Latviancname, Mato was hor yoiven name, I do not renember, ‘And then there waa one more officer who met NURGI at the Atrport in Klev; as a representative ‘of INTUSIST... an enployoa, What was his name; I do not remembor, Rank. si I do not remember, a Who else was thero, ” : No one. else... i . Thon direct participation in. the operation was taken by KOZLOV; i ((Bis surnano)) , PETRENKO, RASTYKAYTE and ong moro / employee had -- that makes fivo ‘people. F Yes =< those aro the five people who had contact with BURGI, : A. Contact with BURGI. I have BURGI in mind. And, you think all of these five people spoke with or saw BURGI, They saw hin; they saw hin, they saw hin. What part did the First Chief Directorate have in this operation:
104-10227-10004 , Stivers: B, “Then, CUEKALOV, Ausolutely pone. ( (Pause)) With the exception that they had, before KOULOV and (Cuts surname) left ioscow for the recruttment tn Klev... tho First Department was told that there was euch=andesuch a man to whor there 1a peeoga. Who said this: How wan Ltr To ny thinking, CHEKALOV.... Then, we did dt in this way: when the report on the recruitment was, written, on the recruitment... before informing the chief of the directorate, this report the First Department of the First Chief Dircetorate.... ° ; : Well, you paid ‘that you. rocoived ~- or that someone had. ‘told you that. : ‘ there wag information or a word from the virst Chiof Directorate that a thore ig a possibility. of making ‘an approach to BURGI.. _° ; - og That la the Second Chiof Directorate apdskelig., : ; i It was we who eaid that. thore was the possibility to atiow them a : report and that tliere ig a possibility for. recrultment.... “Does it : suit your” i It means what == the Seventh Departuent: : : ‘ : The Seventh Department. | 3 . i : S Of the Second Chief Directorate. : . ; i The Second Chief Directorate. % | = Ti Sa ..."Let it be know"... : & Fes Picea i ar
104-10227-10004 e ” a, > 4 AY By A. B, made aware of such a possibility. : Well, usually the report is shown before sanction for the recruitment ; is recoivod. . 3 -* Then, from your sido, they showed the report, a i ' Who showed tho report? — . &. ; AL B. A, (Cto)) the First Section nbout the possibility of pettine such moan, Made ft knew to the First Section of the First Chiel pirectorate,... Yes, 22 OF the possibility of recrudting.... BURGY, . .«-BURGI. — ‘Mow was the First Department of the First Chicf Directorate actually ' I do not romember if I went over with GUS'KOV or... I think that I went with GUS'KOV, Then you wont,.. To the First Dopartment.... i i a ; 1 ...With GUS'KOV, to the First Department: of the First Chief Directorate. To seo whom: , , . The Chief of the Department. Well, whov - I do not remember now. I think... just a minute... I think it was FEKLISOV, - TAT Ate een atearan ane caer nee Ce ene aioe, PEAT. Rice eS Paras: A Pawewerti¥e ocean oe our!
104-10227-10004 i A, 4 Fe wis nina cfftee. Where ae On the etstth fluor, room 834 or 335, 1 do not remember. Waich builsing. Duilding #2 -- that ie, tho new building, the new building, You were there, talked with Fev LIsoOv, tell mo what you were talking . about when you were there, That there was tho possibility of a recruitment, - Who was the one. who said this: 1 do not ‘Feseaber...vho or how it wan said, Did you speax or did GUS'KOV; GUS'KOV =~ he was the Chief of Section, - oo, So; and wiat did FEKLISOV say: He got acquainted with us, then read... and. they said they have an interest in this man, men, PEKLISOY said’ that PURGI was of interest, That this gan is of interest, But who is “this man" = RUNGE: Well, yes of course, Yhat clse cid he gay?. lew ee _§ 2 —
104-10227-10004 Be To de pot renonber what cbse lecwaidd; but probably he put his stonature, FEREISOY saw the report. A. He sijned or he did not sign. ie Certainly, certainly; otherwise, why whould wo famillfarize hin with the report: - He became acquainted; and he signs. His sienature indicated that they agreed that the man was of interest, Usually wicn this "went was reportedly PERIL" YEV to’ GRIBAMOY, it) “was: said that the First Depar tient of the First Chic Directorate had been made familtar =~ oven: FEKLIBOV "ss signature wag there -_— and that they had an interest in ‘this nan, A. Of all of thoso persons wiom | you have named and who took part in ao + this cnsé, wlio at ono ‘tine. OF. another appeared’ beforo BURG in a ° . Militia uniform the unt form of the KGR, or in sone other uniform: . , on ; -T have in mind KOSLOV, ((B's surnané)), PETRENKO, BASTYKAYTE, and awa Militia uniforn. B. To my thinking no one appeared before hin in A. And -in GD uniform: In a military uniform? B. No, no one...,’ | - - A, In a railway untform: A. Then, no one was in uniforn- oe B. No one was, Pere. trial the Xiov employee, —'. . Lo, ce
104-10227-10004 A, Be " Be A ‘B. a! A. Checks in the records. ~~ WO im ((Pause)>} A check on him in tae records, a cheek on ber tn. the records of the PGU, and... Just a minute. War there an extract from the cnble in this collection of materials: .- I do not renember. fhat.clgo was thero in the collection of naterials. In what kind of records’ Tho Overational Checks Departmont of the First Chiof Directorate, and the checks from, the Archives. Department of-the KGR. | Who mado the check for the Archives Department of the KGB: ’ ‘Tho case officer handled this developacnt -~ ((B's gurname)). “So == you checked tho records of PGU; wnat did you obtain?’ It was clean, There was nothing. There was nothing: Nothing. What kind of a remark on the check was there.’ % No infornation. No information, weno wa a vetmayreg ott eter er A at ee rT & wvegmeenypretne Le tet dermup ws
104-10227-10004 . ae , Neithoe tin the Archives af the aC wer in thu recowdn of the KG, Tuen, there was ae information, netthear bere nor there. ((Pacse)) -Who else cheehked the ftles tn connee tion with theo HURGI case Who else was checked H BD, No one was checked, A. Then, only SUNGI was checked: - z x B,- Woll, well, woll, uh... | i ~ , > s A, Woll, fron this SOLICGrkan of materials -- you named the materials <= OL who else besides RUNGI noni: with BURG had to he checked, or should E sted have been. and was’ checked. ; ae - a 2 A. Well, that is not important, whether in a eroup, or not o- we are : : only talking avout the collection of mater tale held by ((S's surnamo)) "who had tlio questionnaire, ‘the INTURIST notice. ° Only BURGI, and no ‘ond elso, was chetked throurh the records, io i ; connection with the RURGI Case, - 2 - Who else was checked on tho basis of these materfals which you had!” : B. I do not know; I do not know. : “What do you have in mind? ; ° ce A. I have in mind -~ sho clse was checked. - , B. I do not understand the posing of such a question. a A, Was Mr. SNITM checked; was Mr. IVANOV, PETROV, SIDOROY, checked <= and others who were found in the matcrials that you had. Or was it only you who, as the person responsible for the materials, who checked only BUSGI, and there were no other persons and no need
104-10227-10004 wins to cheek others. I ‘There were no other persons, I teld you that there were none, . A. Only BURGI was checked, and there were no other. persons. ( (Pause) ) Along with checking the records of the PGU, what other check: did you make in- POUL B. ((Pause)) I do not know; I do not know. A. Then, execpt for tho quentiLonnaire and tho notice and possibly. the ie , excerpt from the cable, there was the check of the records of the PGU. | “> What elso was:theros | RB, I do not remenbor. ; so . I cannot answer. you... . Thero woro naterials, of course. i * Primary materials from the interpreter who was working with hin. i ‘ % oe ; a “A, Who wag tho interpretor? | i B. I do not remember, i 2 eh oe tg mo , a z A. Why was in interpreter needed: a = , Be . . i i . ° B, There’ was an interpreter, but why.... Fe ri : - 5 OT s eo A. Well, who was ‘he: r B. I do not remember; I said that I do not renember. ROT RMT ip Ta Me A. You do not remember; then, what other materials were there on BURGI: 5 What other material: SL ae ah You must remember. 1 teehee , Bs ie re Pea it B, There were materials from the agents who were acquainted with hin,
104-10227-10004 ° T, A. B, Ay - DB. oy, - I decnot remember; I do not ronmember, ‘If you had wanted.... 0 7 Nu, five me wart came before the anents. Ido not remember; To da not remember; To casuet tell you. Wag the interpreter your accent’ I do not vemenber:; I do not remenber. You do not remomber if he was an agent or a cooptee,. : Then we will add another ‘man -- although he was not an oporational man «=< who saw RURGI as soon ng he arrived: they gave him 2 guide. interpreter; it means, he wag there: But-we were talking about operational workers.... I am talking about an additional operational .worker, and-we will add him as an interpreter, since he saw BURGI as soon as hoe had arrived; he had an interpreter from whom you’ could == ££ you had wanted -~- find out sonething. Right; much more can be added to this, you understand, but I do not remember this. Let us say, BURGI visited some kind of an institute, and he spoke with someone . From there ((he got)) a little pioce of information -- whether: there's an agent or not. BURGI was at another place.... : . We will get to this: I will ask you about this information. I tell you -= do not even ask me, because [ do not remenber what kind of materials there were and waat was there, Ftd meyer e Nm AL ne mS te gh mae ew epre es boone amy a ee a a ee
ye o Now, .t:at, wie erg AO mee Loo fob remeber. we. EP gerr te not remember, thea you took only a very enall part in it. , You ary matins very anasty conclusions, . : i Basty m= you fad all of the materiale: then Way did they Not. rertn you, IO uo was at the institute, and - there vas an intere : \ : Ve ct he preter, To wicn Gid tisy co then. t . B. I hac # thousand pieces of material, enough for a year's work a= thousa::¢a of natertalg;: and the tourists also came by. the thousands. F . ; : A. And you 40 not xnow not one of them as a-case officer should. i t ‘| Then, yuu do not know about any otnaer materlals. | . ge : : Furthes me who first made the sugrestion to worl on PURGI. ar: - 7 » Ba do not renenter such... I cannot answer such questions. a . . oa ; : £, 5 Usually f2¢ worn oes on there Tike 60 == you receive some kind of ms _ |. materLale; you report to the chier of section..,. A. One minute. I do not reed to know how things usually jo; made te suggestion that there 1s sone basis for work on PURGI, Be. (XG) to wort on nin, before his arrival..,. A. (in Engi’sh)) Alright, Alright. They have reported that the work must be donc. Who first made the suggestion to work on his recruitment. Who was the first to make the suggestion: jevecogp: pes ((Pause)) If information was received that there was a basis for I want to. know who first PRAT C wen rece, That be eee wStnar antes as eed cede ee
104-10227-10004 “STROYEY dravtted ida cin, A. ile could not invite htm without tastrue tions... B, Of course not, he wan instructed <= how, what, everything; he was instructed, “aoe, A. Do you remenber the room-number : B. .I do not remembor the room number now. , _But this is the only room in the hotel with the mirror (zerkal'ko). — - (XG) . - A, : Well, what monsures were taken when BURGI and STROYEV were in the hotel room at that time: . “Re “They photoyraphod: him (XG). EL. ¢ = A, How was this done: ge - B. How: Through the mirror on the wall of this room, the photorraphs were | taken, ‘A, Wow many picures were taken: B. I do not remembor. Be A, Well, you had them in your materials. -B. Well, I do not remember whether they were there; twelve, fifteen.... ‘A... Fifteen, twenty, forty, onc, two: Be Well, now, twelve, fifteen; ten, fifteen.
104-10227-10004 & “Mg ny What sive werd the photenrapis The usual s< nine by twelve ((contineters)). Did, the pictures turn out well. Wetl, there they were.... In what condition were BURGI and BIROYEY in tho room before and after tho cepplatiion’ of their act:. They were dressed, and then they took off their clothes. mere were _— before thoy wont to the hotol: Tey “wore in a. restaursint, Whore, - Ido. not renenber ; I think STROYEV had wine or something fn his room, Wero they drunk. No, no, What happened later after they completed their act’ The photos were taken. What wis donc. Later, a report was written on tne recruitment (2G). I have that same evenine in mind, Nothing. (1-2c). Where did SURGI go. pare UNE Rom
104-10227-10004 n. A, Tt scems they did not mect again, | a Waiere iia SYOCYEY «<o ldo not know, Where weve veu at that tine Where. a I do not renember, I do not senomber, ((Pausc) ) Ok <= whon the phe tographs vere. taten a- [ was in. tho “next room; I was dn the next roon, ((Lon: pause) ) If you were in the next room, how is it you do. not ‘know wiiat happonod later, where did BURGI and STROYEV go. + I do not remember exactly, I do not remember. ((Pause)) How many times more did STROYEV rnd -BURGI meet after this: How many times did STROYEV and DURGI meet hefore they completed this act. - {-do not vemenber; I do ‘not remember, ._ _ i Who gave the instructions to STROYEV -= "Here, ££ you please, go..." I, with LOPUXIOV at (1G), With case officer LOPURIIOV , who (2G6).... Then, here we must add LOPUNOV to those who participated in this operation. ARI ching min F A Ra gee cee e¥Nee Tansee pen
104-10227-10004 os ae ~ hl. Ho, the azient Wie nig es he cfd net tae port: he oniy cave Instructtous to the arent (2G), A. Then, wo fave instructions to STMOVEY that he ro to BURGT.,. to make love, ¥ aos, B. LOPUINIOV « ((B's surname)). A, LOPUHOY = ((B's surname)). °° —_ ; 7 Where did you mect STROYEV, and whero did you give hin instructions- : A. B. I do not remember, Ido not renenber; 1 think 1t was in a hotol. A. In which hotel: : wn, Ba I do not renomber, Mm A A, Well, thon what == LOPUIIOV and you met only once when you cave : instructions to STROYEV in tho. BURGI cage: rs RB, Well » then, after the mocting; after the meeting, after he met, wo : % ; oe Se i say, I and LOPUIIIOV saw, 1 say fina alone, i i _ Then, I saw hin, again after the’ pictures were, developed. s * Perhaps smovey could. add soné thing — something about him ((punci)). : ; STROYEV cven 1 wrote sonething about hin, about the conversations ‘ i ea - they had, what they talled about. ; A... What did they talk about? 0 2 # . : Fe 2 B, I de not renember. : 3. 5 a A, Thig must have been in your file, z 2 . B, Of course, it must be in the collection of matertals. = a7 * a A, Did BURGI pay STROYEV, or did STROYEV pay BURGY. * e Ur ; . ; $ ies
104-10227-10004 4 f a on ra = SRO yee theo eventing , ? ((aune)) © trunk we arrived the day hefare, 1 A. The night befare B. Yes, yeu, “bee, A. i@sSG1 also flew tin. B.. On tne following day, on the followiar day. A. On the following day. Who act hin) | nn . — | : B. An officer from the Kiev ‘Second Directorate, from tho Turist Suction; net hin m— r do not remonher his, name “= under ; the cover ot fn - "Esturisr" capradonta tiva. . How did they. leave tho airport. "7 In an automobile, A. What kind of an automobile: : 'B. In an automobile; INTURIST gavo them a car (2G). : A. Who was driving tho autonobilo. B. I do not remember; I do not know. A, Well, what -- in ataxic That belon:ecd to the Kiev KGB: Did the automobile belon: to INTURIST. B. I do not know; I do not remember such details -= if it belonsed to ——_ or to the KGB, ern ree
104-10227-10004 AL “RB, A. basis did you sclect IVANOV and ‘not PETROV: Too mob roncrmber, Tals all would have liad to have been worvhed euty Taes could not take a driver sent off the strecc. \ -Of courne; they took an autowohile bron LTURIST or the KG, 1 4 You are responsible for this case. . : | You canu on the day before; you were to have worked out all tho pan! plans, ‘low did you come to the conclusion that a man fron INTURIST was supposed to nect BURGI, how did you select n chauffeur ;~6n wnat 7 | And from wicre did he come, = | . i a 5 nl Tne automobile, I think, was from INTURIST, or maybe the automobile - . : 1 —- nag from the KGB, a “Then, you #-- as tho responsible case officer for this case - do not know, . : I simply do net ronember, ° ox 4 | ‘Thon the autonobile ig wither fron INTURIST or from KGR, . , Feoa INTURIST or GB, ’ 2 You do not !:now who was the driver. And who was the cmployee fron INTURIST: There was no enployee fron INTULIST, Tnere was a KGD euployee frou the Second Directorate representing hinsel2 as an employee of NITUNIST.
104-10227-10004 B. Tao onot vemembey . ms Tormave tho nance (Conrlter)). I do not remenbar tt now, 7 a ; Tolt me hele tls : what you dtd with BU) GY in klev, ile was mot. by this enployee, and they got in the ear; they went from the afrport to tow. the hotels in tev were {{llod up, ‘On = “there fore; we apologies”, would. maces “In the autonoblle the enployce spoke with BURGE tolling hin that _ TICE there were con ferences coing -- - and temporary tly porhags ho have to stay for perhaps a day or ‘two tn one of the apartnents ‘INTUR Ist rents in the center of tom, . He WAS told that he would be housed tenpor ar tly, As soon ng there . would” ‘be on roon available in the. INTURIST Hotol, he would ba Anmedtately transferred, "Ploéaso excuse us, etc, for one or two days". OR. He agreed, Well, Well... vhat he can do. . you do not remenber the apartment on Kreshchatik Streat. Qn Kreshchatik, a tall building. Taree Well, How many rooms did this npartment Rave. roons, .. you brought hiss there Bho was with mbsty with BUNGI there- Well, he drove him and went up with hin,
104-10227-10004 A. BR, a A. _A, si ; B,. * A; B. B. The fellow put doen the aulteascn, BURGI's suitcase, ‘and he loft... ‘Now I have a question m= are you sure that SRT. Rand Lies fn tie sbarteent, were HOALOY ani Wyrse tres tas PY se Maen tae fobloranc. min ((B's purname}), ime clse was there There was a virl 8 RASTYRATTE was there DBTRIVNO ew I do net remenber if he was there at that tine or Lf he. had stepped out and returnes soon, Well, tell how (2c)- The door wag opened. the teil nang e= "Please conc in”, le’ lett. And we invited ((5UNGI)) to enter the roon. Well, thea, BURGI -was brouvat _CCthere)); | he went upstairs, “and tho INTURIST employee carried his suitcase. _ i : ; YOs, | : 7 And the suitcase... he went up tocether with him.,.. “And went up with hin and. with ais° sultease, ; : - And - what did ther do with the. other suitcase. .. and with the third ono: | '((Smilinc)) I cannot reply to such questions of yours in such a a sequence, Well, then, why did you mentisn tnais suitcase I have in mind the suitcase vita the clothing,. with the clothing. SURGI and his beloncings iwere broucht there, to this apertuent, as soon as they arrived there. I think that his suitcase. was taken.. * FAR re <7 Ldasriin lg
104-10227-10004 “g q 3 A, a “Yo Go not renenmber; I ““((Long pauge)) What. do you havo in sind. ne I simply am asking where were -lits belonzsinr at that tine. - I do not remember. whether tho suitcase was broucht up or was in -I do not remenber. | Bot “T thin’ «9s more pree iscly, more orectactiv . Gy not venenber; Po do not renenfher, iflow am I supposed to understand you -= that a man cane in whith LURGI's sultease, or did they cone without BURGI's suitcasa Understand it ag you wish: IT do not remember. Then why are you tollins it if you do not remember. ((Lony:' pause)) Well, answer my question, “H You were the ease officer for this case, otc; what did you personally and the other KGD employees who wore with you do with BURGI'a belongings whilo he was in the Kreshehatik apartuent and whore were ' i his sultcascs: % ao a en A seizure was not conducted here, I do not have a selsvure in mind. the automobile, How many suitcases vero there. I do not remember, When did they return BURGI's belongings his suiteases to him: Later that same day, when the discussion was finished. It vas late. there were they before that
104-10227-10004 Epes “He ((tho case officer)) know.... How you aay... at the heninaingy, you satd -((tite, caployee))-breuche up the suitcases; now, that tasy vere in the autoio lle or somevhere, | mg tucn, they returned Unen late at nine, Where vere they. One minute, Way are you taking the fnet out of place. You aro conducting a tendenthlous interrogation... olwfously.,. obv Lously tenden tious... It is clear, clear.... Nothing of the kind, nothing tend-ntious. r Only that way, only that way; Lite all of the preceding days. . - ‘The case officer wao was respors {Zle for this case @<}j he knew what. he-was doing. Whether tho suitcase was brought up to the apaiment or left in the autonobile =-- I.do not renenher, a mar. I do. not remesber; 1 do not resent At tho end of the discussion PUnGi vas driven hy the sane automobile to tho INTURIST Hotel. (3G). Well, how long was the discussion: I an afraid to say; thero was a discussion and then they all sat down to eat, Aftor they left the tahle, they talked again; then they arain wont back to the table, . It wag a long tine low lon:; dic it last -- |n hour, two, ten, fifteen
104-10227-10004 ete ea ak A. Et Jagted Aes Five hours, Approxtmately when, what tine, was BURGI delivered te the hotel. Approximately, asvroximately, after ten tn the eveninc. He was left alone. ((Pauso)) Hewes left alone. Ilo was watched, of course ly surveillance, in case he might send a telezram, or make a phone call. . J How many men were watching hin: . I do not know how many men were tailing him, : Who sot up the tail: | te ed The Sccond Directorate... on direction.... | : . : On whose dircctions. : ood ’ At the roquest of KOZLOV and ((B's surname)). ‘ Well, you asked, : How many nen did you. as!: for -- ten, twenty It was asked that a brisade watch hin. ‘ How many men. a We did not speci ty; how many... three or four men, or... it was not ' discussed, ( (Pause) ) Thiey wre told that.... Puat kind of instructions were civen and sho fave tien to the
104-10227-10004 teu ae is A, BR, the hotel took a taxi and left” . — | “Well, to observe him, where “he went, What kind of instructions were given to the surveillance against ofunvodtlilance, The “instructions were wiven by... PETHENZO, How much @<— PETRENKO knew about this opcration You were. responsible for this operation. What kind of tnostructions The only thing told to the surveillance wits to watch him and set it up in such a way that they not be noticed by the man tailed... that we were interested in his possibly mailing ((something)), in whether he showed up at the telegraph office and his behavior. So, what instruction was given agents in event that he came out of i | If he wont to the railway station, got a ticket, and left: se tee seem Oe He could not do that. They would not give him a ticket, ‘He had to do this all through INTURIST. INTURIST sells the ticket, the event that the man in his desperate situation decided to run ‘ : away to any place. . , Surveillance was only to watch and to do nothing but inform us, Very well. He cones to the railway station, finds a ilitia man and explains everything. to the Militia ( (what then. )). The Militia would send him back to INTURIST.
104-10227-10004 aye n B, ids there in the Sovict Union There (s nothing thes could do for ate INTURIST carries on contact with dnternere tear oo, Well, hho arrives at UNTURIST add startooakiur noises; then what INTURIST also dimandiately will tnforn the operational officer, Very well, If he voces to some sovernment office early tn the norning: and he tells them what happened And starts arguiar -- "wiat hind of order Look at what they are doing to me!" - ra Where, where can he £0: _On the street, on the street, and he will be shouting: in SHC GEDGSER. |. No, never in history has it happened. It has happened, and not only once, . I do not Eney = not on ire surest, - - 3 ; You. worked there: you nust know ef such instances —- they happened, He could go only one place -= to INTURIST, INTURIST, and tcll then what happened, As man finds himself in a desperate situation, and hé knows that INTURIST tg connected with this -- he goes to the railway station, or he takes a tnaxi-to the Airport, ete. and starts explaining his situation; that he is a forcigner, that he is a professor, and ho will leave until they call:... C(XG; A and B Spenk at the sane time.)) You are takins ab exception ag an exanple
104-10227-10004 at, ORS aeons 2S vt a : a Th tiie came, the tril would make known where he jind vane and -wirt BHould be done. (XG) The question that he vould oncape, Songwhere did not avive, Alright, ho gocs to the post office and sends a Set arti tinxs what next. Tae -telenran would not be sent without the sanction of the Kiev Second Directorate.” Why woula it not be sent? ((Pause)) Who gave the instructions: a second timo -= how did you tive I askod once; I am asking  {nstructions: Whaat did you say. {ft you wero there, you must know in detall, .. v§ am telling you. “What are you asking about =~ the survwillanco: We. started talking about tae surveillance, I aay =~ at night he gets ‘up, and goes’ to send a telegram; what is_ the tail supposed to doy | The tail is supposed to notify the case officer, That is all, Whom: : PETRENKO, Why PETRENAO: Because he is the local man; he maintains contact with then. PETRENXO cannot maxe the decision; you are responsible for this case. What does PETRENKO do?
104-10227-10004 3, am FS we RB, PRTRENNO, PRTWENEO netifles KO4LOV and ((8'a surnane)). A. ROMLOV and (CB's surnane)).. Oo. Tnen, tae aeeisicd wilh co wads. Al OKs “we have reached the end, Well, where did ((3's surname)) spond the night -< the first night he was in Kiev? “B. In a hotel. ; : wo “A. In which ones. Bi: Wo =~ with KOZLOV -- also staycd at the INTURIST hotel, on another floor. A, What is tho namo of the hotely B. INTURIST, A.. Whoro 18 it situated? “B. .I do not romombor , A, Thon, you stayed at the same INTURIST hotel as eURGI, but on another floor. B, On the other side. ma “How far was this from BURGI. B. I do not know how far. I did not measure it. It wns on another flcor. A. Did you listen to BURGI; in his roon. ae RnB ttt te AACR NOS
104-10227-10004 BL Whero did you stay all of this time’ What = Livery -~ 7 - a wi alone, If he were to phone... Oh, telephone, telephone <= of COUPEE; on the button. Yes. me telephone wag put -on an button, on a button. ((Pauso)) The chief of the hotel. service. was contacted, and INTURIST . was told to tnform the KGB 1f£ PUNGI requested anything. , How much timo.did you spend. in Kiev on the BURGI caso* Well, wo came day ‘be foro ((BUNGI arrived)); that oas the first day. I think we spent four days in all, three or four days, o, We only spent the night in the hotel, becnuse wo always were late, . Then you atayed at the same hotel and you did not change rooms, eos And BURGI also stayed in the sane room all the time. Yes, Then, you did not meet him in Moscow. Tell me how and under what circumstances you met him for the first time in Kiev. Well, when he came to the apartuent.
104-10227-10004 - _- A. And how dtd you introduce vourself. RB. TF dv not remember; [ do not remenber, A. low did you address hit. At the berinning, HUNGD, and after that, durinre the discusston, as’ Richard, Richard... | A. OK; how did he address you. B. I do not remember; I do not remember, . : A, iow did he addruss KOZLOV. . “OB: _I_also do not remonbor , : (A, PETRENKO, : B. Ido not remember ,. : : : ey tow did KOZLOV in Sadie’ hinsolt_to him? an : : . _ B. I do not renembor | : | i, How did PEMENKO Introdnee: hingolt! | . : . | B. I do not renenber; (XG). | A, Well, what did he call XOZLOV- _ 3 B, I do not vemenbor, ° | A. You do not remember how you introduced yourself; did you eave hin [ yous nes, . .
104-10227-10004 7 § 2 4 n the A, B. I grave gone HANG ee wink olsg _ but fo do not vomenber, Oi; what kind of an name did KOLOV yive. I also do not rouenber, DETRENKO: I do not remenber. Well, how did he call you == "iiey, you ((fanitliar form - ty). (XG). 1 Well, recruitment measures are’ taken; probably more ov less a ‘frlendly talk oes on;. you have to establish what you are yotng to call each other; for instance, Ivan Ivanovich, ‘Dut I do not remembor whether I have him my surname or ‘T*said’ "Yuriy". : a You could not say, "Iley, .you ((familiar form = ty))." Well, as "yy ((pollte form = you))". One cannot just say “vy" 1f he wants to say ,"Vy, como here," No, he would simply say, if he wants to use sompething, "I would like to ask this or that,” You can address a person without calling him by nane, One cannot always go without names; you called him by name, ((XG; A and B speak at the same time.)) But that was in the beginning; and then, it beran by names. Lente
104-10227-10004 2 a ee g neice Pad PAPE A. Mut he algo must eal you be some nane, B. Tut, you underntand, [ do not remember, [ do not remenber, ; ; A. Pid ne call you by name \ 1 : B. I do not renenber, | do not remember, i \ “A, What = havo you foryotten your name? B, I do not romember whother I gave him my own ((namo)) or another, -- : A. Woll, toll mo about your activities with BURGI in Kiev; what did you personally do; . “4 -((End of Reel #13)) - | arenes