LO 11 ,- 42 ; 13 44 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 er ne memece. 23 24 Soe wee eng Urn mneg exed for usa on cigars that someone had hopad to get to Castro, and aventually ‘that never got off tha ground, This was a scheme that was never approved and never vant Yorvarc: if XY know of that ons instance Bottllinum was made into pills and these ni i lt was considered. | ed baad mn whic bey ls “sre taken Sees again to Cuba. Castro stopped going to tha rastaurant whare this man was. Ths Bay of Pigs occurred and the operation Was called off, When Harvay took over and then rsactiveted tha second oh in April of 1962, they weat back to Varona, and ons of the strange things is that Varona Started off with the reoatition of the original restaurant aporoach, which I think caused A 2 : mis Sse thet he hed s eVer Went. of delays and we don The first three men, if don't know who they were, We to ths gap between what we wars ¢ 2 20 The missile crisis interverad,. old and ti qe < fa ba 2 of fe erializ 2) uba whese j develono. le. xe] Thers Ware a they ever did go in. in fact they did go in -- we don't know what they did, we out or not. don Ye es As a matter of interest, tha man who was to co back . : . wt ame ry Cc ra on ie ra es Bia ial Std Photocopy from 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 107 Gerald Ford Library Wa don't belisve they
GI -10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 al ao on . ameg a ent, . « . coansctions. ane psople who daalt with Varona Felt that 2 Chairman : * is i i : Church, “ 1S possible they went in and could s havs been captured by Castro? cr Mr. Brackinridge. It is possible, The Gusstion that Sena+ +e, ~ . VEG VSHNGLOL Morgen asked earlier, what thay . coulé hava known -- these men wae don't believes could hay keo ‘ = Mavs KOWK the actual backers of the roma | née Ke ra Deration auss i & ODOsration, bsecauss Varona WES dealing With a mamber of the st icats wi he } Of the yndicate with whom he had previous i?) +9 ta i) i « was discrset and careful. os rv < is x + % wt “4a = . But those msn could heave been Captured. They. could saw Supplis@ ths internrctstine 4n- : ice ppl Qs inter Pretation that thay Migat net hava known. ad Hot, no : m= dot, - ways ara MJothing Cams OF the ovsration, it wes Called] of Ff; But Chairmen Church. Tobe sent in from the Unitsd Stat $? = ae mm we Oe Le * “Mr. Colby. From the United States Charr =, Rwy el Bwewa 5 = ~Chatrman Church. And why is i+ yeu doen't know whether or : rt s. ” ~ a ‘ a a Mr. Breckinridgs. Ths question exists in mv mird. I am not sures it exists in other ogovls's minds As I veviswed the record, when wa got the record back, in cr) = s re . n ee fate. on for these inquiries, I was Struck by the fact that }o- praparat Varona had told us at the vary end of tha first phass that wee ee et Sud SE INA. he was using this restaurant, and when &@ year later the ohasa ua esua dd Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 106
FER es Ame Pe oe BIG FLELE LEGO, Soe ting PY ASBINGION, bictes AUS Gt 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Was reactivated, the same story was used and alrzady had bean proven not to ba soa. Later he talked in general tarms about the three men and I began to develop some Feservation in my mind as to ) vhatner or not Varona had in fact told us ths truth. That is purely sveculation on my part. Mr. Colby. This is a problem we liva with in ths intellig ite business. ‘hen you ara not able to b ib Pp. ) Cea pes rt a Q it i?) oO ntact, for ute th io] good reasons vou are sud = to fabrication, particularly if there is some monsy involved. ‘Chairman Church. Did tha CIA, in connection with phasa o . Ce a a ee ons OF Phase two, oay any of thesz agents for their services? Mr. Bre eckinridge In ohase onz I think we paid exvins: mOnsy. In phases tvO We gave money to Varona. Ne. Schwarz. And =o Roselli? fir. Breckinr iage. Ws paid sempensea money tor Rossili. Mir. Schwarz. You paid him money to buy guns? . e WRX. Breckinridge. Iwas going to tsll the gun story. “Varona Wanted monay andl guns and Soms of the equinnsn that military. And the equinoment that was acquired at that tine. Sid not include tha’ ‘ ne h- ba jor oO rH Fee :Q {2 js. 'S 3 Os He rP Be ct =) Hw Q & fd» ms ft 2 Cc ‘o ie) 3 t uw ig that could be obteinzed from othar sources and excluded U.S. ne specified could be obtainsd only from the United States y +248 s ra 4. oo | military equipment. Tt was provided through the assistance i ; j : of the tHiant: station. A U-Hanl truck was picked up and dsliver.: Photocopy from PAVED AS Baty ity | rn | Gerald Ford Library « : HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 109
~ Mr. Breckinridge. Tha first man who had tha job in the Offica of the Prime’ Minister, this man did get kickbacks fron 4 es : the criminals. I think that must be the ons you remsamber. Ile 5 . took refuge in the Venezuelan embassy and stayed there until * . & - . . . . -. ‘1964. Hs finally was given safe conduct to pass out. The 7 ates = Nexican embassy took over From Venezuela. Cuba broka dinlemetic 8 oe : oa : Yalations. Ha continued to be a political refuceas in that 9 we L r. o - embassy until ths fall of 1964. 10 ” ; . © q * . Chairman Churen. What was Varona's motive for varticinatink LL ; e ’ in t= plot? 12 : 13 — ; who wanted to overthrow Castro. He wantsd mors financing 16 | +) 17 19 , 20 21 22 Photocopy from 24 Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 116 tir. Brackinridge. Varona was one of tha axils leaders Lh oe a) ad
1 , Mr. Schwarz. I would like to pick up on the discussion 2 ||}we had. 3 Chairman Church. Mr. Schwarz has five minutes more, and 4 | We will conclude, and I would lix:. to ask the Committee cu stay * 5 jon for ten more minutes for an executive session. - 6° Mr. Schwarz. In the discussion we had on the use of 7 criminal elements, we have Gealt with the Castro operation. 8 In the middle of the book supplied to us by Mr. Breckinridge g |} earlier this week, there is a discussion about the Lumunbo——__] 10 || operation, and the Agent Q. x. Win, ee ll | Now, is’ it a fact that Q. J. Win was the are Or asset, 12 however you would refer to hin, who apparently was considered 13 | for the effort to assassinate Lumumba, which never tock place; | “ is that right? | 15 . Mr. Colby. Yes, sir, 16 Mr, Schwarz. Now, is it accurate that Q. J. Win overated i 17 in. Evrope txying to spot and assess individuals whom the Agency jg |could.use’in safecracking orerations? 19 Mr. Colby. This is what is reported, and it is quite possible. 20 C 21 Hx. Breckinridge. fhe record indicates that. - 22 Mr. Schwarz. And is it further so that one of the CIA 23 officers who first met QO. J. Win in Luxembourg, waS on a- 24 trip overseas to find safe¢rackers and Gocument suppliers? * 25 Me. Colby. Yes, that is what it Says . aN. ee a NRE, CTS SETEAERRP A ete EE ULE i Gus eapanaaaesanusangessasuanseorereparevetewirrr Photocopy from Te) Pr Ameeryresy : Gerald Ford Library ( bo hd ee ek tad HW 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 111
10 ll 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 ’ te. Schwarz. Now, just as a matter of historical record, is the 6s the predecessor of the CIA in some sense? | Mr. Colby. Yes, Sir. | " Mr. €chwarz. ‘ts it correct that “Lucky” Luciano was used to help the: ogs in connection with operaticns in Italy during the Second World War? | . Mr. Colby. r don't know, but I have heard that story as well. It is an extensive Story but I don't know the facts. ‘Mr. Schwarz. -For the record, Mr. Luciano was a Mafia figure who had been deported from the United States, or was in jailin the United States? Mr. Colby. Was in jail, I guess, and was later deported after the War. Mr. Schwarz. Now, in connection with the instructions which you issued in 1973 concerning activities outside of the Charter of the CIA, you received, as we went through the other day, a report from the Insvectcr General leading up to that in May of eet 19732, oN Mr. Colby. That is right. Sy Mx. Schwarz. And was part of the report that the cra had itself conducted for local police departments in Washington, Arlington, Fairfax and Alemandria, during the pericd 1968 and 1969, a series of classes in items which included basics in surveillance, photography, -basic audio and countersabotage; and in addition, this is what I particularly call your attention to, "as mma em HY ct - Photocopy from ue eWay atid Gerald Ford Library caw serverweetserqpamqars crim sanipaimantaganans + wars ~sane"Tnenand-re-eeasDnenanal): @enetatensennseh ae HW 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 112
4 -{] locks and picks and Surreptitious entry? 2 _ Mr. Colby, Yes, sir. 3 Mr. Schwarz. -I am now reading from pages 225 and 226 of ~~ 4 the 694 , ages, which I will mar as Exhibit No, 6, 5 ae *. (The above-mentioned document was 6 oe marked as Colby Exhibit “Mo. 6 y 8 8 Mx. Schwarz. Is it the fact that, for example, between | 9 for identification.) 9 October 7 and October 18, 1968, the CIA conducted a course for 10 || the Washington Police Department in the subject of surreptitior S: 11 | entry? 12 , Mr. Colby. Zt was included in that, yes. 13 Mr. Schwarz. What was the purpose of conducting such a | 14 || course? 15 Mr. Colby. We had a relationship with various Police 16 | departments around the country. They from time to time would 17 | like to learn our knowledge of certain subjects that are quite val unique to’ the CIA. There are a number of things that we have 19 || t0 do in CIA which are quite frank ly outside the norm of mest 20 | other agencies of the Government. ; | d 21 Chairman Church. Doesn't Surreptitious entry refer to. . 22 | legal entry? } 23 Mr. Colby. Going in secretly, that is what it m2ans . e4 |} Entering secretly in some fashion or other, yes. 25 | Chairman Church. That is an illegal activity for local | | ; ene ots an =F) me . - Photocopy from : sda, Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 113
© * a * i ‘ 4 |/police, is it not? i A é . Mx. Colby. Presumably, .yes. a =) Chairman Church, Why is CIA conducting cours S teaching 4 local police illegal activity, kev to conduct illegal OFS.ations 5 Mr. Colby. I think at that time, ‘ix.. Chairman, that was - . 6 ac the request of the police department of that area, that they ? Ilwere interested in this thing, and there is a defensive element 8 fof it. In order to know how to protect against son e@tning, it 9 |}is well to know how it is actually conducted. 10 Chairman Church. Do you construe this activity to be ll |within the Iaw, the basic Statute which restricts your domestic 12 | activities? 13: Mr. Colby. I don't think it is a violation of the law, 14 I oar. Cnairman. | 15 | I did give some directive on that in 1973, that we not 16 | engage in this anymore, in compliance with the spirit of the | amendment to the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration 18 | nee, “hich Says that CIA will not Provide support to the LEAA 19 in its assistance to local police departments, And as far as 20 I, was concerned, that is a policy that they @on't want CIA in 21 | touch with local police departments, 22 The fact of sharing our knowledge of techniques with a 25 | local police department does not in my mind get us into actually 24 | condueting domestic police activity. There is a difference 4 trom 4 | ! Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 114 / on wer eemerantennaencntemteremer? ‘feet natn enprwwerr center EEEEEEt Se eee EE EERE SOWETO 0 Sue Lm LEE RRDARMAMRANPOYENONIED were Weereivenetnr # enrunEene ts
10 ll 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 eal ‘ge 23 AXG Fiest Street, S.€., Viasningion, O.C. 20003 | | | ‘workman or something of that nature, and I think in that nistory! Chairman Church. Yes. S8ut apart from the technical question of your jurisdiction, when you engage in teaching local police departments how to conduct break-ins, surreptitious break-ins, you are teaching them how to break the law. Mr. Colby. You are teaching them how the law is broken. -Chairman Church. That is right. 7 oo, Mr. Colby. — Which can be useful to them in their knowledge | of how the law is broken, the techniques that are feasible. ! Chairman Church. Or can be useful to them in knowing how : to break the law? “Mr. Colby. It could. It is an item of information that : they can use in ahy way they wish, either properly or improperly: Mr. Schwarz. Are you aware of any situations where govern-~' mental officials, either state, local or Federal, have in fact ! engaged in break-ins within the United States? | Mr. Colby. I know of certain situations related to foreign! intelligence operations where access to appropriate targets has been obtadned either through subterfuge of pretending to be a there are some cases of actual break-ins. . | Now, I assure you, Mr. Chairman, we have been conducting : break-ins abroad. There is no question about that. That is, we train our people to be able to do that. a | Chairman Church. That is not the question I am raising — with you. o . ak . “er , oe ak om tS & TEX See ances iF Y ty ha Sot Oh Rae Photocopy from HW 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 115 Gerald Ford Library
2 In other words, these courses, it is my impression, were. he generalized discussions of techniques, ‘They were not Particular 3 4 || handholding on conducting a specific operation, 5 I think I am accurate in that statement. mg - -Mr. Smothers, Mr. Colby, just a couple of quick questions! \ 9 | First, with regard to the ses, memoranda or diaries you : 8 | might have of former directors, are those Still on Ageney— “Nene tnennnen owen g || Premises? Bo you” have those matters still there that vere left by former Directors? | } | LO 11} Mr. Colby. Certain ones we do. I don't know of any that yo || we don't have, 13 | As far as I am concerned, they are Agency Property, and when i4 | 2 leave foam going to walk out without any paper. - Hr. Smothers. With respect then to the inquiries you have : j 16 made with regard to information in the files on assassinations, . 1? have these inguiries extended to an examination of these files 18 | of formers Directors? 19 Mr. Breckinridge, In one or “wo instances on srecific j ii j 20 points we have made inquiries, We have. not gone’ through the | 21 files in general for that purpose, | I j | { 22 Mr. Colby. We have gone through that collection I know of 24 Mr, Helms’ files. I don't know of any Specific set of files called Mr. MeCone's Files, 24 . There is an executive registry where my correspondence is 25 . a ; : a ES, Photocopy from na nen 2 cnt rk ama Pye wes - _* H if Gerald Ford library Gora ed aa ee HW 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 116
1 kept, for instance, 2 ~ Mr. Smothers. What I am searching for is the situation ° |iwhere the generic classification of materials might somchow 4 have not been complete enough for us to get particular kaowledge, i" of the. Comittee, owing to ‘the recess, but we will then, I alta as] t think, we are going to have to go into tri-webkly meetings, , 5 and I was wondering prior to our next meeting if a search | 6 oriented with respect to the issue of knowledge might be a | 7 | fruitful exercise? - --- | 8 Mr. Colby. Knowledge by previous directors of soecifics 9 jon this topic? | LO Mr. smothers. Yes. | 1 Mr. Colby. “I think it is eaSy for Mr. Helms. I think : 12 || we have gone through his files, < don’t know of any se parate ie 13 ji set of files on Mr. Dulles or Mr. 4McCone. We will look. | 14 , Senator Hondale,. There is a reference. to John NeCone's. ; i «| files in one of the memos that I looked at this morning. | 16 Mir. Colby. I will check that, Senator. | 17 Chairman Church. That is a good point, and I an glad you : 18 | have-raised it. | | 19 | I think we will conclude the hearing at this point with 20 | the understanding, Mr. Colby, we will be back in touch with you. | 21 Mr. Colby. Surely. Many times, I think, Mr. chaizman. “T7ES ‘22 Chairman Church. Yes, 2 | *5 I think that next week we will not have any formal meetings 7 i | | { | | Photocopy from Mg"N PQ CRE pays Gerald Ford Library pT Nm ess me ne es HY 50955 Docld:327112724 Page ii?
. f 1 |/beginning after the recess, so we can step up the pace for the 2 winvestigation,  ceemreret 3 Senator Mondale. If£ they could get the Lansdale memo, a 4 Mr. Colby. I will do that Luis afternoon. 5 I would like to add two things that have come to my attent Lo: 2 ere y 6 yor the subject of assassinations, both of which are allegations, @ |i bothof which have been Knocked down, 8 There Was an allegation, some man has. alleced that he was , | g9 |} Working or conducting an aSSasSination in Colonbia, and we have | 10Q |] looked into .the Specifics of it, and there is absolutely nothing! 11 | to it. ZL thought I would mention it. I have the facts here ‘ye | ahd will include them at sone time, - There is another allegation that one of ‘our officers 14! had some knowledge of an attempt against Chou En-Lai, and ne has: written me a note that points out that it is imsossible for thati i | | | 4 15 1g | to have happened because he wasn't in the place at the tire. 7 | Chairman Church. Since they are allegations into which 1g | You have ‘inquired, I think vou should make the papers available,!_ 19 | Mr. Colby. I will make sure the start gets those, - 20 Chairman Church, ‘Thank you very much. » & a1 Mr. Knoche, Could I point out, I think we have the answer a eo || to the photographs. 93 There were seven of these Photographs taken at @ifferent 7 24 | gles at the same time, but absolutely Gifferent tine intervals; o5 || Curing the tine that the police had these men in custody. Photocopy from rt ae oN wt ew om en pee Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 118
10 ll le. 13 14 15 16 1? 18 “19 20 21 22 24 25 Atte Stree | Mr. Kno | oS | Knoche. I am not Sure. I am not certain for that ~ Particular board that you were looking at . which gives the best opportunity to look at the face Mr. Colby. So they were separate photographs Chairman. Church. Yes, Mr. K 1 noche. I will be Glad to leave that with you if you would like to have it for your file (Whereupon, at 12:30 o'clock P:m., the Committee recessed subject to the call of the Chair.} Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library * v4 o> Cire ° HY 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 119 Toe seme ee ates (5) + anetneernaggate pero. Ameren ee = 0 He ee men 08) Mee ep — poe — i re meweremoase sot emo oa tome eres ner ay om Noe ee nee = SUPT eneis Rb eanacoww teens oD Fo SaaganenteenEreic oy Ter eaROHES tt tear SAEs SOF toe 8 oroaranaeten Rene a oe et ee oe ER Oh Or oe 84 NO