hy) da 1 i “Rewdquartess an } Dapyhey? rem emer ee owe pal mind 2 ance ic I. l. | iF | floor his otf bce wan i have no knowhe age of any of his Sother names, Goldsmith, Would you make your best effort, please, scribe Mr. Bishop! Ss fiscal description? | What did he I could not even make a mental image of» Me. Bishop right now. is he today? Mr. Goldsmith. Approximately how old x don't know. $s must seem strange to | you, it really must, I know but, you see -- How can I say it? “the rélationship ¢ of one agent to another isa thing that you try your best not to -- not to’ know. | Mr. Goldsmith, Was Mr, Bishop an administrator ox officer? | | | | I would say his position was higher ¢ A little honcho against Where dia Mr. Goldsmith, you generally see him on those occasions when you did see him?
da on ‘at seerserterin-rete wit costes & dmctnre® ettitmrttet Ht teen Sette comm Some eters erent winanenentannbcennD DIAG £2 * os ed Roaatoiaies senetmentran es mnmeaN ne ecapereneceaeee tee tee meatemenieenanane eee remem cee Se ' 3 F i: i i f r } Aten oe. sweat 9 the ath tetera ne + oe: eee d poner anaes 2 eb pen © Samatng S Meee aeage ne ae eS SS LORNA See aT ee ed Kiran 210mg oe em sem em 6» ¢ Segertakie SO coet ome mite TONE Raa eM AE Entel ATID aN Aeedt wy ete OA yt ee cane eee PES Sena ents Ra erie comet eee i es om go 8 2g seme een eee a8 Bo PARR Ne Ee neere manent at 8A, Spt pes oee-te os op f I imagine: da ene Mr. colds smith. For exzrap ple , ito the hallway, 2a aetna os meme ome 4 a 2 ¢ eetetex La? one Mr. . In the hallways or cafeteria. Never cer “tainly at my desk. Mr. Golds crith, -What -is your best xecolection as ‘to the - ‘nembex of times that you saw him? ye KR couple of times, evo or the ree, ue Mr. Goldsmith. When you saw this individual and you knew that he was Maurice Bishop, how did you know that the gentlema: that you: had-in mind. was not that Maurice Bishop? a ct - Mr. oe Someone might have said, "that is Mauxice bishop," and it was diffex cent from Dave ph ill ips or guys that I know. 7 7 - - 7 oe Mr. -Goldomith,. Did you know a man named Pirgault? Mr. | 7 XI don't think SO. Mr. Goldsmith. At this. time Bs vould ‘Like to show | you an i] exhibit, I believe it.is JFK Exhibit No, 104, and I “would Like to ask you.to examine that and to.tell the committee whether y 4 recognize that individual. Mr. - - = -¥ don't believe so, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, Thank you. You caneput that aside now. Did you know an individual named Antonio Veciana Blanc? Mr. -- Now this name sounds familiar to me in my © Cuban operation, I don't know where. It may have been with.
‘ scceincieaieceleseaiaenaca acaal SR Stabe ay i + 4 = of un agent. _f knew | Literally hundreds -- hundreds --~ of the Cubans, 3 hes Mr. Golds smith, Did Mr, Bishop have any involvement in t) ma bbe Cs 4 | aveairs of the brigade? By brigade 1 am nét xeferring to the 5 | pay of Pigs operation. . oe aed wo é le : a I don't know ie he aia! “i vas ‘not avare © 7 |} everyone. He might very well lave been involved in this “thin: 8 | | He. Goldsmith. Getting back to" Mr. ‘Bis shop, hen was the y | sivee time you saw him to ‘the best of your we memory? | 10 | of Mr. os I would think about: the early Sixties. onde Mr. Goldsmith, Were you ever formally introduced to him: 12 an No. , | | - ef Mr. Goldsmith. ' And from the time that you first saw 7 him on ig fan the early Sixties ‘until the last time that you saw him, , ig | which I believe you said would have been about 1969' or 1970, ‘16 | approxinatery how many times aid you actually see this man? wl oe Mr. ~ rt would not have been that late because ir fo 1964 or early 1965 I left the Cuban operations and went t | another country of interest, “so in those. times, , Say 1960 to | 286, it might have been two. ox three times. eS a | Mr. Goldsmith. Is it fair to say in Light of your last. 1p | comment that once you stopped working in Cuban ‘operations, yor " nf dete that particular area, you no longer saw Mr, Bishop? . za | Mr. ; If I did, it would be just in the hallway | ané I don't think so. I was now in another part of the agency
~~ es” vee =", 10 aU 1S 16. a a bt Or at wo, ows ct been -raisfexced ‘to somewhere else, ‘t dont kniow, yon to. seek them. ont and pay, "How axe “you, bay a? “How axe you: © eats would ne, Golasmith, So by that : infer, that Me: Bishop worked in. the aren of Cuban operations? No, noe necessarily. He tight have ‘worked’ ¥ : where, in the case of ° and Dava Phillips r doing?” Go to. danch, play” some poker. un the case of Bishop this is not so. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever see Mr, Bishop at the station? ' Mr. a . “No. In the on station you have to understand that I was assigned to the - “gtation bat I = stayed away from the station, re sounds peculiar, r was assigned there and yet x was “not there. Twas assigned _ there short ‘Ly after L went there and met ny own cover ahd aid my own operations. So when I dia go to the _ . station, it was just a matter of just quickly in and get at 4% over with, Mr. Golasmith, Did you ever see Mr. Bishop's picture. the newspaper? - Mr. . I may have, I don't recall, There was a time there after early 1964 where you could have asked me. to identify my children and I could not have done it. That is wnen I had my second stroke and that was when I lett oe
10 _uU 12 # H t 2 saiteneineneniae = Bishop," t was evacuated actually out. Faia : my “eis fF « EY * . oo aye Go. }smith, But you are cecté i nevertheless that during your stay at the ayency on at least two or three occa- sions you saw an individual whon you knew to be Maurice | Bishop: ae . , fe ‘Whom somzone told ime, what is Maurice an *. Mr, Goldsmith. Mr. Chairman, I have ~ no further, questions comittee has questions, I will yield at this time 4 Mr, Preyer. All right, Mr. Fithian, mS Fe = a wy Mr. Fithian, Thank you, Mx. Chairman. | | Do you get. any feel for uhether, other people that t you get to see just casually at.the CIA are ~- I don't know how to put this ~~ higher or lower on the pecking order? | Mr, | pardon? | me - » Mr. Fithian. Do > you. have’ a feel for an individual that _ you see casually over at the agency as:to whether or not they. are > higher up in the structure? => a 7 | - Mr. _ A feeling? + | - Loge rs Mr, Fithian, Yes. | Mr. . ‘You mean when I was working at the agency if I saw someone --. . | ~ Mr. Fithian. You: didn't see them, you’ were not’ working with them every day, you just see them from time to time, do:
da “ad 10 Ju 12 | Mr. Si Mr. “gay. Essentially, Mr. Fithian, . higher? SR cme, Batis teatinseseen treet sb atte GP GocAE shied 5 EH Sener | Mr. ok: -Mr, Pithian.- i - Mr. Fithian. i man, i | quarters? ! : ' Mr, 6 | That is where I went. i SMe, you get a feel, whether by eating Juach or what they are doing ox would say he was. a higher yrade than I wa ze 23 4 @5 to whether they are above you in rank or equal ar whatever? Yes, I think « Imow what you are trying to- yes, Sir. Do you have an impression that Biship was: Higher grade than you were?. O£ course I was not a very high grade. That is the only Guestion I had, Mr. Chair- Mr. Preyer. Was your office in Langley in the CIA head— a Yes, At the time I was in headquarters, | ' Mr, Preyer. And Dave Phillips' office was also there? Yes, six,
BD da it ‘the 5 > same floor as yours in tangley? | if a Mr, I don't knew, It was 4 very large floor A and there. were many people on the flooz that had nothing to |. ‘do: with what rz haa to ao. . L | Mr, Preyer, “bia Bishop have some relationship in his =" | appearance and age to Phillips? Mre Again I cannot recall Bishop's appezarance - i, Ce ae at all. | Mr. Preyer. Do yqu recall more on the name when people 1 said, "Phat is Maurice Bishop"?
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eee, ' dy” 808 16 3 A7 13} zr have. a fev more questions for you, Mr. “Do. you know whether David’ Phillips anew Hauxice Bisho . | ‘t know that. He ‘may have: known h but I dont know that. | Mr. Goldsmith. | “de possible that the nane Maurice | Biship may have been an_ “Mr. Goldsmith, Why do you say that? Because others in the agency thought ch they knew me by X name and they called me by that -name whe fact it was not. | - : SES | Goldsmith. ‘So the use of aliases even at agency F headquarters was not at all uncommon, is that true, to you knowledge? That is true,