wee vom ewes wee 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 al 22 23 24 25 L Chairman Church. You Sze, the state of the record * now suggests a cover-up, another cover-up. It suggests PRar thosa who were selected by the higher authority in CIA to brief thse Attorney General haa Knowledge limited to ay atbennos on the life of Castro that hed been concludad. It further suggests that they had no knowladga of continuisr efforts then underway, evan though prssumably their superiors did hava such knowledge. This leaves the Attorney General ir a position of being told about the past program and not baing told abcut.the present progran, and we know that he later said to certain assistants of his that he haa put a stop to assassination attempts on Pidal Castro and he may have bean left with the impression, asa result of this meeting, that there were no further attempts. Hs may have said he wanted no further attempts. We don't know. But clearly he was rot tolé that thers were further attempts then underway. for {8 a Senator Morgan. Wers we told yesterday or the @ay b Yesterday that he knew of the Cuben majors' operation? « o Mr. Schwarz. Wea were not told that. Mr. Breckinridge. I cannot clarify the quastion completely but I can introduce a littla bit more. ‘When the discussion occurred Hr. Houston did go ands tal 43 < : e Poe with General Carter, who was: then the Deputy Director -~4 , 4 Mx. Schwarz. Which discussion ara wa talhkirdg about ftow2- Hr. Breckinrilge. Ths discussion abous gcing to tha Attorn:: i nes ‘| . Photocopy from we Sw bv Le Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 55
10 ql 12 “413 14 16 16 1? 18 19 20 22 22 230 24 25 room of the male entertainer in Las Vegas bugged. They hired General. TO. go back, how the question arose, and it gces far afield, John Rose lli, who was the Chicago member of the Mafia who arranged the introduction of Giancanato the Cuban syndicate head, threugh .whom they initially tried to run this operation -- Giancana had a personal love affair with a well know entertainer who was then in Las Vegas, and she was sispected by him of then having an affair with another well known entertainer. Giancana went.to Robert Maheu, through whom ‘these intreduc-~- tions were first made -~ Mr. Schwarz. Introduced to the Mafia personnel? Mr. Breckinridge. Yes. | Mr. Colby. ‘Between CIA and the Mafia. Mr. Breckinridge. And asked Maheu toarrange to have the a private eetective who then did this. The roommate stumbled on the equinment, the private detective was arrested, and tha FBI investigative trail led from the wivats detective to Maheu to GiSneana and eventually to CIA. Giancana had insisted that Maheu help him because he had helped Maheau with the introduction to the head of the Cuban syndicate, and Maheu had then agreed to get a private detective to do it. So this arose in the centeaxt of a domesticviclation of wiretapping laws and the FBI was investigating it on that basis. . >. . - . a can er ae) ey ra ae “3 har Photocopy from i - af f C te Stila a4 Gerald Ford Library . Pe HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 56
10 Ll 12 15 14 15 16 17 18 19. 20 21 22 23 24 25 Z third inember of the Syndicate involved in this, botk of whom were high on the FBI list, as they progressed towards developing a prosecution, they came to Colonel Edwards, the FBI did, and said what is your position on this. The position of the Agency as stated by Colonel Edwards was we did not want them prosecuted because it would expose what he understood to be this operation, | and I guess the time sequence gets a little fuzzy in my mind. | Mr. Schwarz. Did he tell the Director of the FBI the nature of the operation, or simply he told him it would concern Some sensitive matter? Mr. Breckinridge. He told him it was an intelligence operation in country, and the Mafia was baing used for that purpose. So in the discussions as it progressed, it dealt with the wiretap prosecution. Colonel Edwards in discussing it with us in 1967, according to our notes, said that they briefed the Att torney General all the way, but at that time Colonel Edwards, I think by the time they did it, Colonel Edwards thought; it was over. So the At Ctorney General and the FBI were not told the cUmplete story. Mx, Schwarz. They weren't told the most important part of tho Story, and that was that it was continuing. Mr. Breckinridge. They didn’t know that, that is correct. Chairman Church. So you have here two violations of law. Apart from what was told to ‘the Attorney General, you have two violations of law. One, the wiretap, it was an illegal operation Se BON Photocopy from m9 Cre gray ry rts . Gerald Ford Library . 4 ey td us Nas ork i Sak] . ‘ a i : “4 a aban at HW 50955 Docld: 32112774 Page 57
XL We may have three. Second, it is certainly an activ ty that 2 {| the basic law prohibited CIA from engaging in, domestic activity. 3 Mr. Colby. CIA was not involved in the wiretap. 4 Chairman Church. As I understand it, the CIA was involved 5 i! because it engaged a private -- 6 Mr. Breckinridge. I am sorry. "7 Chairman Church. Maybe I misunderstood. 8 Mr. Breckinridge. We didn't learn about this until after g || the FBI found out about the Mafia involvement in that wiretap. 10 || This was done by a private detective hired by a private businessra “44 at the request of Gianeana. ‘: 12 Mr. Schwarz. _ CIA agents had committed the crime, in this 13 | case, but not on behalf of the CIA. 14 7 Mxr.. Breckinridge. No, no. 15 Mr. Schwarz. Isn't that accurate? 16 . Mr. Breckinridge. No. | 1? _Mr. Colby. I wouldn't call Giancana an agent, getting 18 back to our definitional problems. 19 fie. Schvarz. CIA associates. 20 Mr. Colby. CIA instrument. We had a contact with Giancana, 51 obviously, and with Maheu. They decided on their own to do . 2 this wiretapping, or bugging, or whatever it was, without our 23 prior knowledge. They got caught. Then they said if this is 24 fully investigated and brought out, it will bring out the CIA 25 | collezoration on the other subiect, and then decision wag sad HW 50955 Docld: 32112774 Page 36 ’
i to Lot | go and brief the Attorney General to the degree briefed ! ; an Church. After which the Justice Department drossae the case? | Mr. Colby. It was droppved, | Photocopy from | Gerald Ford Library pote $B ; oO i. 2; HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 59
LO il 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 el Re 24 HY 50955 Senator Nart of Colorada, Was the CIA not. COnCcern:d that - Giancana may have told somathing about this Cuben operation to the female entertainer who also may have told the mala Mr. Sreckinridge. No. Lf I understana What happened, and I am now describing what Hr. Maheu said, and Iogst this fron having read Some files at the Department of Justice ~ -——> Yecently -- when Mr. Maheu tried to explain to the PBI his position and tried to Provide a rationale for doing this, he Said I thought there was a leak in Chicago end tf Wanted to have the room of this entertainer bugged so I could Find out if Giancana had leaked. . - . Tha FBI gave this the kind of credit I think it was entitlea to. They didgtt Pay Much attention to it, This was Something he tried to develop to justify his involvement, Thsre is no indication thas there were any leaks from Chicago that wa know of, Something that he would know of, and there was no instruction On Our part for him +o do such a thing, ‘and it was for another reason Giancana asked him to do it, Senator Hart of Colorado. As far as you can tell from tha rscord, the CIA was not concarnad that Giancena and his fanale friend, or her Male friend, may have blown the Cuban Operation? Mr, Breckinridge. No, e s * Senator Ilart of Colorado. It was burealv who was Sleeping : LO FORD with whon? a) © . Ka Photocopy from ae -7 HT 4D OY, C2 FIT y paK ; ; ee ‘ Be AESa? SSL ES Gerald Ford Library oS Docld: 32112774 Page 60
td 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 ei el 23 understood -- Mx. Breckinridga. I think that is still the cas:z. _& * I would liks to add one further thing. “That Prior to aoinag Over to brief the Attorney General, the general couns#1 did gO Spear to General Carter. Garneral Cartar said thet he a Mr. Colby. Gensral Carter was Deputy Director of tha Agency at that tine. Mr. Breckinridge. -— he understood the situation and in due tima might brisf ths Director. We don't know that ha. did brief the Dirsctor, who was than Mr. McCone. Our notes written ia 1967 say there is no indication that General Carter was briefed on the full details of tha assassination plot. So while he did avprove thair going and brisfing the Attorney General about this association with the Mafia, thera is no indication that he was told the full story then either. ‘x. Schwarz. Then in August of 1963, the documint thet you vrovidsed for us last time, Mr. Halms did know about ths Mr. Breckinridge. I think by then he knew that the“> i= . . i, Operation was going. ne , . , : we a Mr. Schwarz. H2 sent to Diractor MeCcone tha memorandum Ongoing aperation; is that correct? - which had been prepared concerning the meeting with Attorney pony General Xunnedy, which indicated that the overation was compl st. Se ths inferancs from that paper racora is that Mr. Nalms was concealing affirmatively from tha Director of Central Intezllic2: VER CAPES ES PPe Photocopy from — nn Gerald Ford Library
I S$? 3 in the same way as somebody had concealed fron the Attorscy 2 : * General the fact that the Plot was ongoinda. ) . . . . Is that-a fair. characterization? 4 1 . tay Ne. Colby. I don't xXnow, 5 > . . - Mr. Breckinridge. Could I ssa the memo? 6 . ; . . ¢ Chairman Church. The mano US#S Verbs in the past 7 | Mr. Schwarz. Tha cover memo from Helms to McCona 8 + * “A hd . ; mitting a cony of ‘the memorandum concarning the iNay, 19 9 as . ’ , wees mseving with Attorney General Kennedy. 10 + : : Mr. Breckinridge. May I say-first I don't kn We Ll wo Loa 1 , ; 3ust call your attention to the thirg paragraph, 12 t - oa . * . + . Mr. Schwarz.” Of the Memorandum from Director Nalin 13 ts ne Mr. Breckinridge. Yes. Ha was then D.D, 14 Nx. Colby. Tha basic Memorandum, of course, mere) 15 referred to a sansitive cTA operation and than in Mr. Malns 16 in the paragraph says I assuma YOu are aware of the nature 17 | og the operation discussed in ths attachment, is Again, this was an attempt not to refer on papar to what o 19 it was, 20 Hr. Schwarz. But tha attachment refers to it in the 21 . past tense. . ; ee FIR way ‘ £2 Mr. Colby. I agree. EE “ a a» £3 Senator Morgan. Who is this memorandum from? ue — . * — aa Mr. Colby. Tha m-movarniey ua are discussing now of t-—— Nene ZS August 1963 wan to the Nixvseves from Mr, Nelms. 4 attache: Photocopy from Uys oisise at mY 50955 Docta SSS fo Ped “BAN 62
LO il 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 e a copy of the briefing of tha Attorney General iy iley, 1962 Senator Morgan. Mr. Srackinriggqs, tha trenseript or reprys ~ that you were reéding from a few moments ago, who pranared cnat? Mr, Breckinridgs. This was Prepared by another insvsctor * Senator Morgan. When you say there is no indication thet he knew, that is just an assumption on your part, that you don't have any positive evidence? Mr. Breckinridge. Thet is corract. Senator. Morgan. Ths crutch is you sort of suspect they all knew what was -going on. © Don't you think that is true? Mr. Brackinridge. Me, not necessarily. people directly involved in tha operation, Chose that wers When wa conducted our in estigation wa interviewed the vailabla, and trisd to reconstruct whe & hanpnaned with the. 7 Hr, Bissel. I did interview Mr. Harvey. We submitted this Yeport to then- Director Nalms, one copy 2 only. Wa did not intervisw hin. Where his name appeared in the course of our inquiry we om ge “We interviswed different psOple. I did not intervie put it in our report so that he would see how the record : whe . ve to people who approached it AS we did. Phe exteat of the kné vides of these qdiftfersnt paopl. is : at . Le tere AS sasy =o reconstruc: acer Fair. to assum, en ae - 7 ‘ ‘ ‘ <. Ms Photocopy from POA meage DESY Geraid Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 63.
HOF E elatuedta U vu Photocopy from 1 . : T’can't answer your question. Gerald Ford Library 2 * ~ Senator Morgan, In other ords, if you dient’ have 5 . ’ evidence that the sv did know, you just assumed that -- you 4 arr Logs . didn't assume that they didn't know, you just said there is 5 . ‘ no avideunce? . 6, . oo, . ‘ Mr. Breckinridge. That 2S correct, ? . os ‘ Senator Schwsicker., Lat M2 ask tha question another Way. 8 ; se The documentation YOu collected and what you do have 9 we , ; cess POSitively, who was the highest ranking official, according 10 : to your records, who knaw? il . 2 : eas Chairman Church. According to the Positive documents 12 * that you have of knowledge. 13 Mr. Breckinridge. First, let me | Say wa did not have 14 documentation. Tt was based mostly On interviews, this LS Period involving the Mefia 16° Ths highest person that We understood that knew during i7 the first phass with Mr. Bissel. That we clearly did kndée-———~ 18 about ite There was discussion at on2 point in which “Mr. 19 Bissel, Colonal Radwards ¢ the two of them, met with Mr. Dulles 20 | ana had a conversation in which I can best say there was 21 doubletalk as to what they wera discussing. 22 It is open to question how Clearly this was stated ton AO 25 1 our, Dulles and whether or not Hr. Dulles understood & 24 At the Tima chat We wor: making the inquiry if was our a5 opinion that tr, Rull:s prohbasly knew, but Tocantt put it beven ASN IT Oe py ergs HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 64
ry that. 2 ck ; Senator Schweickar. [le left the Aqency in 19682, as I 3 me recall. 4 ; . . : When was your investigation? 5 - . . . : Mr. Breckinridge. Our investigation was in 1967. 6 , . . an a on ; And our discussion with Colonel Edwards, who Cescribed v4 . . . : . . ; . -}| this meeting when it Occurred in 1960, left us with the impressih:- 6 while they had met with tir, Dulles, that the conversation was 9 not in preciss terms. As Colon nel Edwards ‘said to us, wa 10 didn't use any bad words, which maant they didn't use the il word “assassination,” but they discussed an operation against 12 Castro in-such terms that he felt that ‘they had conveyed the 1s Messages to Mr. Dulles. But there is room for doubt, 14 Senator Schweicker, Once Mr, Dulles left the Agency, who 15 then becama the highest ranking person to know, according 16 | to your investigation? 17 Hr. Breckinridge. If Mr. Dulles did in fact understand, 18 he would De the highest Person at this Point. 19 “Senator Schweicker. At this Point. But he left the 20 Agency in 1961. Five years of assassination avtempts went@oi, . °sS 21 after that. Z ze You conducted an investigation in 1967. What did that.” “5 | period show as to who was ths highest ranking person who knew? r4 Mr. 3reckinridqe. “rl McCona dia noe know until much lat.r £9} until after it was all over, photocopy from _ EOP SECRET | Gerald Forduibrar HW 50955 Docld: 32112774 Page 65
Had |? as bss ’ 4, 1 a . Se 7 Mr. Colby. We knew in 1963. On oy : MW Oy. 2 . ym Mr. Breckinridge. About a past event. - “%, 3 . "e . OS Mr. Colby. There was still activities going on.: 4 . : fir. Breckinridge. That is right. Chairman Church. Mr. Breck inridge Precise answer because sometimes the record that wa 8 eg get , , to reconstruct is not Drecisa and in some instancas We ware left wi LO Senator Schveickar ll your whols invs estigatio le ina? 1s Mr. Breckinridge. 14 Senator Schweicker 15 ir. Breckincidgs. 16 le Were doing the inves i? Mr. Helms’ involvemant 18 | subsiitted our desceripti 19 interview him in the co 20 |) interview Mr. MeCong. ; fl’ wore available to us. £2 assunption was that ha Ro In this sense, ord a4 a general investiaation 29 and in +t} ics We HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 66 Can wa get the answer first? Excuse ma. I can't give th * you 4 more Wara able not at all a, and you mean to say you can tall . “Sl Fe, woe TORO - . i? \ iO, Sir. pat a} Ss 2; 2 card - Tam flabbergasted. ya wa Let Me describe the investiaqation. Zigation for Mr. Nelms as tha Director. “was something known to Aim and wa On Of what happened to him. We did not ursS# Of our investigation. ‘la did not Wa did interview the other parties who Buk When wa gave it to Mr. elms the cole conplsts the gaos. anearily, when wa conduct an investigatior e We Vould conclude with reconmendations,! Aigo ous. Yea reconstreted as well as
LO ‘11 HW 50955 12 LS 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 raed 23 : an - Wee a ae DLL Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library we could what happened. And the report went one copy only to Mr. ilelms who held it. We Insdvector General then may discussion with him, which had only one discussion. 7 have had others. Was vortion of thea report, becausa we assassination pblans, as we investigated three diffs he We had cnly one when we gava him tha fi . r Ss Ly ry . a an. ascribed them then, ard our discussio. with him had to do with the epproach we had taken, and wa said that we sinply undertook to reconstruct what had hannenea) as bast we could reconstruct it, So we Were reporting +o Mr. Helms what Wa had rec cS ial Pee ke without having interviewed him as such. It was in one coov « ce only, and quite frankly in 1967 we have no ourposs other then for decisions ash ie felt apprepria eXpectea Senator Mondale. “ow, vou say it is not clear whether Dulles knew, but vet ther rt Jno Ss @ Man mMorandum from Oshorn the Executiva Director dated 2/15/72, which states, I . "tndividuals who wers rt) Mafia vor i?) Ss tn: it pre The 4 “were Messrs. Dullas, Ou 4 % ba ia} flu “a ~ <= p< jms j~ pre iY ol pee f Bissel, Colon attornays for Robart Haheu." Mr. Breckinridge. tir. Osborn is writ of nis understanding of what to Our viscussions with Colonel Néwards laft u: ee re om Docld: 32113774 Page 67 ip am Harvey, James P. O'Connell an 1 Hing, Colonel “~~ Colonel Edwards had to say. Da ceer encore ae. 7g that on ths basis
Ct PRIkY Qaida ew : , Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library Colonel Edwardes believes that Mr. Dullas undarstood the conversation. He also said that he engaged in doubletalx = that there was room for misunderstandin Mr. Schwarz. I show you a documant stamved 0912, hea John Roselli and ask you what it is. . a Mr. Breckinridge. This is 2 meno prepared in the Office of Security describing John Roselli, who is the first of Members of the syndicate who was uszd to arrange the introd to the head o in Cuba. rh c so fi i} Ke >] Qa or a fu tt th fir. Schwarz. And written when? ir, Brackinridgs a. r am not surs. I suspect it al . dn 1973 but I would have to check. Mr. Schwarz. Does it rafer te a Castro assassinatio; attempt involving the Mafie? Se Lt) on pu “ Y) be of fu tr a o | hi 'g Hv. Breckinridga. Noes thse word I think it refers to the Mafia. Mr. Schwarz. Do you. havs any doubt, in fact, this is referring to the assassination sffort involving Maheu, Rosalhey Traefificante, in connection with Castro? ix. Brackinridgs. That is corrsct. th pee oz Sscurity state "the DCI was briefed and gave hi C & of aporoval"? He. Breckinridge. It does. a ir. Schwarz. And who weg the DCT in Augus#, 1964 Docla: 32112724 Page 66
h 10° 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 29 24 25 . the case. a ce 7 UI DU GiXE E ( Gepay, ORY go. Md Fo om Mx. Brackinridge. That was Mr. Dulles. “ Mr. Schwarz. Now, therefore, either Mr. Dulles did aporove which the document says, Or somabody wrote a document in connection with the investigation which irresponsibly says Mr. Dulles apvorovad. Whien is tha’ case? Mr. Breckinridgs. I don't think that either is necessarily The understanding of the Office of Security is that Mr. fu rh S pr Dulles Goss know or did know. Th: question that was raised in the course of our inquiry was that tha nature of the mseting ° @s described to us raised a quastioa of doubt. That we did ° not Yesolva. . Chairman Church. I think if wa accspt your testinony that thera was at least an glement of deubt as to wheather or not ir. Dulles knew of the connection Detween the CIA and the tiafia, and its purpose, to assassinata fix. Castro, let's gat back to Senator Schweicker's question. After Mr. Pulles laf + < oo * > . ae Several mors plots were formed involving the CIA and having... 244; . *; "2 to do with subsequant attempts on the life of Castro. e tell us with respect to tha highest officials in the CIA, = following the departurs of Hr, Dulles, who may have had knowledak of these Ongoing oparationrs? vir. Breckinridge. When the operation was renewed I think it is cleer that-the Director at thet time did rot know. a HW 50955 Docld: 32112774 Page 69
mh ll LO 11 L2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ra Es: 2s <3 22 2, > 8 2 .. Bu 25 SB. ‘a oO Oo .« 24 25 | | Wa DEGREE ¥ Senator Schwsic _ Kear, (6 And who was the Director at that tine? . Chairman Church. When was ths operation renewed? My, Breckinridge. Thea operation was actually reactivateg in April of 1962. It was planned to be reactivated pricr to that but tha employea who hea Yesponsibility for it did not get free until April of '62 when ha actually reactivated it, There is no indication «hat anyone ahove ths l vel of Sissel ia 1961, at the time that this was discussed, thers is no indication that anyone This officer, Mr. Harvay, was to be reactivated. He it over and attenpted to run it again through the bd of 1962, after April. Mr. Schwarz. Us did thet at tha instruction o did he not? ix. Brackinridg Mr. Helins became aware of ct later doin ° “The confusion, as Dsrhabs we discuss<23 Helms signsd off on a Dreject thet was origina Rifls, and 22 Rifle by Mr. Bissel callad ZR White House. It was made no mora specific than tha den <new where in the White House,’ RX Rifle was @ capability to permit assassinations HY 50955 Docld: 327112724 Page TO then took lily initiated Was a projs urgency of tha: ° above his level knaw that it the other day, Me. a Leeks te. Ya
12 & 10 11 le 13 14 15 16 1? 18° 19 20 21 ‘ £2 zs 24 25 HY 50955 Decld: 327112724 Page Ti Ue Wits ee bh va th Em. “ ; ° “bps ~ Mr. Harvey was given the resvonsibility of this by Mr. Bissel and-originally it continued as a separate action from - the Castro operation, but ttre. Harvey was also given that responsibility, and for all intents and purposes thay became big be ib Mr. Hslns was the person who formally approved ZR Ri: i bo aS a project. ZR. Rifle had a dual purvose that has not bee .Clarificd by our inguiry. It aoparantily was in fact used for ths stated Durposes, as far as organizational activities want along, which was to s: ‘and Mr. Helms, whan hs approved the project, authorized accounting on certification, which meant that rather than the usual vouchers supportis eXDenditures, that rr ct hs officer involved would simply cartify that the monsy had besn spent and this would bs accestad. It had a project. amount of soma dollars, $7309 - $10,099 -- some Of it to include the salary of an egent, some to includ: So Mr. Helms! main appearance in the approval cf ZR Rifle not necessarily equates with the data when he became fu oO tb us Familiar with thse Castro operation. Mr. Schwarz. Because of the dual purposa of Rifle, Rifle means both, rifle files ani used rifles? Mr. Breckinridge. It may mean either or both. Mr. Colby. Jt is suvposead to disessceidts but sometimes at elk Pe Ome OE eR FOR
13 HW 50955 Gl 10 11 12 13 14 15 al 22 23 be © a 24 25 UG PU Da oe there is that kind of association. Mr. Breckinridge. told you that Io would look for whar tir, Helms’ nama first clearly appaared and I haven't dons that, Iwas out of town Yesterday. Mr, Schwarz. Do you hava che’ memo of February 1962 When Mr. Helms, according to lr, Greer, Inspector General, Qo | “authorized William Harvay by memo to nandle the project on a special bhasis"?- we fir. Breckinridge. Do I have a copy of that memorandum? Mr. Schwarz. Yas. ’ Mr. Breckinridge. It is in the files and we can retrieve jo .tk Chairman Church. Mr. Bissal wes thse Deputy Diractor of i @ that he knew of the re- Plans. Ths record would indicat ‘ty ct ou i ctivatio; he Operation to assassinate Castro-in April of et OF fy 1362, and iir. Harvey, I takes it, wes assigned that duty? Mr, Brsckinridga. If I may go back, it was in the fall ? of 1561. Photocopy from . ed Gerald Ford Library Docld: 321127774 Page 72
10 11 12 13 14 16 16 1? 18. 19 20 21 23 Photocopy from Mr. Schwarz. November 1961? Gerald Ford Library ~ ur. Breckinridge. I think that is probably correct. It was in the fall of 1961 that Mr. Harvey was given this assignments by Mr. 3issel. I think Mr. Bisse. left in 1962. 1 am not sure of the dates, So Mr. Bissel would have known at that time. But I am not sure after that. Chairman Church. Helms Succeeded Mr. Bissel as chief of operations? Mr. Colby. Deputy Director of Plans. Chairman Church. Deputy Director for Plans. Your record shows that Helms had knowledge of the ZR Rifle o . —— “Operation, which, among other things, was to develop an executive | capability -~ whatever that means. Presumably that means a capability to conduct an-assassination if and when authorized by Proper authcrity? . Mr. Breckinridge. That is my understanding. a Chairman Church. Is thatsyeur understanding? 7 ce ir. Breckinridge. ves, sir. oF Chairman Church. Do your! records show that, or is that based upon what has been revealed through your interrocation?. Mr. Breckinridge. First} Siete me go back and clarify, then I will answer this fuestion; S£°r may. Mx, Helms approved UR Rifle, which the record showshas the | responsibility of stealing codes, essentially. My understanding, fron my interviews, is: that 2R Rifle had HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 73
10 il 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ‘pe 23 24 295 HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 74 1 also the responsibility for executive action capability. That is a difficult phrase. The xecord does not show that Mr. Helns knew when he approved the project that it had this dual role. So from that poin: of view, I have a record that shows what the project was supposed £o have been as far as its open description, though classified, and the.result of our interviews. with Mr. Harvey which tell th other story about executive action capability. So it does not, the record does not show that Mr.Helms at thet time knew what that Was. | Chairman Church. If Harvey knew that it had this other aspect, who would have told him to develop such a capability, if it were not his superior? Mr. Breckinridge. I think that. is a logical. conclusion, bes Iwas distinguishing what the record showed and what our interyleavs developed. . | Chairman Church. Didn't you ask Harvey in interviewing him whethér or not Helms had told him to develop this capabitigy as a part of the ZR Rifle? | Didn't, you ask him who told/Jhim to develop this capability, or did he do it on his own? | Mx. Breckinridge. Your question is a very proper one, and my difficulty is with the record which goes back to what Bissel instructed Harvey to do. Mr. Schwarz. Before Helms took the job, -Bissel told Harvey Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
on 3 g 8 1 a 2 & 3 5 F 4 5 6 9 8 fs) 10 Ll 3 12 > N é 13 fa} € : 14 15 16 1? 18 2 19 8 u 20 o i's 21 2 22 2 23 ‘= 24 w& < 25 HSH e/os ia kada ad to take charge of the Castro assassination project? “Mr. Breckinridge. Bissel told Harvey to create the execus; action capability. Mr. Schwarz. But he also told him to take charge of the Castro assassination project using the Mafia; isn't that correct? Mr. Breckinridge. Nov, there is no record except the record that camé from our interviews on this score. All I am trying to do is draw the distinction between what the record shows and what our interviews: developed, and there are gaps in that. ; Chairman Church. Your interviews show that Mr. Bissel, who preceded Helms, told Mr. Harvey to develop an executive action capability, which was a capability to assassinate if.and when ordered; right? Mr. Breckinridge. That is correct. Chairman Church. And your records show that Nr. Bissel also “instructed Harvey to take over the Castro assassination attempt, which was connected with a continuing relationship between the CIA and the Mafia? Mr. Breckinridge. I think that is a correct assumption, - - yes. Chairman Church. Now, when eo your records shew that Helins becaine aware.of Harvey's whole assignment as given him by : meee’ - photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Decld: 32112724 Page 75 :
g L Mr. Breckinridge. I don't have the accurate date. We have 4 2 the 16 August 1963 memorandum. I promised Mr, Schwarz that I % g 3 |} would try and find the date, and I was out of town yesterday : 4 and simply didn't do it. But I have to go through the record 5 to find the earliest date that we have, and I simply have to go 6 into the record to dig this out. 9 Senator Schweiker. . Do your records show the date of when 8 || the actual latest assassination attempt was finished? ‘ 9 Mr. Schwarz. For castro? 10 Senator Schweiker. Yes. When was that timeframe, roughly? | ll “Mr. Breckinridge. You are talking about the Mafia connecti: 3 12 .Senator Schweiker. No; I am talking about when did we é 13 finally cease and desist in attempting to assassinate Castro, E 14 | from your records? | OO 15 Mr. Breckinridge. Let me, if I. may, and I don't mean to 16 confuse the issue -- the Mafia connection from beginning to end - was an attempt to assassinate Castro. The operation was called “Wg off finally in the Spring, perhaps February, of 1963. . 49 Senator Hart of Michigan. What year? rarer : 20 Mr. Breckinridge. 1963. : - 3 21 Mr. Schwarz. That is the Mafia part? _. ; : 95 Mr. Breckinridge. Yes, sir. The Cuballa Association has a 2 2's ; different origin. 3 24 | Chairman Church, First, who called off the Mafia operatior $ 25 | Mr. Breckinridge. As near as Tf could tell, Marvey. Photocopy from HW 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 76 Gerald Ford Library
z L La Chairman Church, Harvey? < an ° Lo : 2 Mr. Breckinridge. MNarvey., Harvey decided that it couldn't: a ~ . é 3 |) Succeed. Harvey was leaving the country for a foreign assicnmen: 5 4 and in _ conversation with oselli—~— Roselli was the man who was 5 in the Mafia through whom the Agency had continued to work -- 6. and Roselli agreed that nothing was happening, nothing could 9 happen, and it should be called off. We don't have a record 8 that Harvey went anywhere for approval. This doesn't mean that 9 he may not have discussed it, but I don't have the record of Let. 10 So Harvey in his conversation with Roselli, terminated the i operation. | ; “he Senator Hart of Colorado. The memo which we saw at the é 13 last session, which I’don't know we officially have, Mr. Colby : Ma mace it available to us ~~ WaS a wrap-up of the whole thing, or a 15 meno to the files, and I can't recall now-who did it. _ 16 | Mr. Senwarz. That is the one referring to the meeting - 1 with Robert Kennedy that we spent some time lcoking at. , : 18 Senator Hart of Colorado. That was the Sheffield-Edwaras 19 nemo which say with the collapse of the Bay of Pigs invasion n 3 20 operation, no further attempt was made with the Mafia. It tied 5 : : 2) it directly to the Bay of Pigs. A 22 Mx. Colby.. That was the first phase. There was a second 3 u shase that followed with the Mafia, 2 2S ‘ é 24 Chairman Churen, We now know from what you have said that 5 25 farvey called of € the Mafia connection, and we don't know whether = . ; . revere Fy (2 Phew ey rye Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library } HW 50955 Docla: 32112724 Page TF ;
1 i that was done with the knowledge or authority of anyone more h- e 2 | placed in the CIA, Gt Mr. Breckinridge. I don't know. Prone (Area 202} 5446000 ifs Chairman Church. All right, after Harvey left the country 5 | who was then assigned to undertake the Subsequent efforts acain .6 |}the life of Castro? | a Mr. Breckinridge. This brings us to Senator Schweiker's 8 |} question. A man by the name of Orlando Cubella, who had been 9 met in Mexico City by the Agency in 1961, who had been one of 10 | the leaders of the anti- ~Ratista groups . and held the rank of Majer 12 {|} in the Cuban army, that is the highest rank they have, Cuselia i2 j}was an M.D. and had been a youth leader and attended youth ~J 3 < . ti. . : 2 13 || conferences around the world, and was met first in Mexice City, & N 14 |} and later he was met in Scandinavia on several occasions, And 15 | the conversations during these various meetings had to do with 16 Cubelja' S$ desire to have a change in Cuba, and the attenst on 17 | the Agency people who met with him to explore his ability to 1g | Substituté a. government as well as be able to overthrow the" Es, n 19 existing government, wt - 3 20 These conversations were very general, exploratory, ana’~” fe) B 2] |Non-productive, In one of the early meetings with Cubella, he taiked about tw aw) eq assassination, which was reported back as being an offensive 410 First Street, $.£., Wasnin 23 = Castro, and the’ Agency cmployee used the word 25 {Word to Cubella,-and instructions were issued ‘that Cubella was rea eNO ee ote wee tena Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 76
lL finet to be given a mission of elimination of Castro or anyone 8 2 else. Col He was met in October of 1963, at which time he made the TUe Geeta wey we OMe 4 || proposai that he wished to have wcapons with which to commit. 5 an ‘assassination, and this Proposal was rejected, - 6° He continued to speak in these terms, and finally, I cannot 7 give you the level of approval ~~ that might be at the level 8 jjof Hr. Fitzgerald ~~ and I don't recall which job Mr. Fitzgerald 9 ||had then, whether he headed the Cuban Task Force or whether he 10 had become -~+ ll Mx. Knoche. He replaced Harvey. ; 12 , Mr. Schwarz.” He did meet with this man and gave him a. 2 ; 13 weapon or poison pen with which to kill Castro? a . . ‘ 14 Mr. Breckinridge. Fitzgerald @id not give him the pen, 15 Mr. Schwarz. But discussed the subject? 16 . Mr. Breckinridge. I was considering the question of 17. level of authorization, and I don't recall. I would assume 18 |Mr. Fitzgerald was the highest level of authorization that “Ta -. oc: 19 know of, _ —_ Ee 20 Chairman Church. And Fitzgerald's position at that time?” “91 Mr. Breckinridge. I was guestioning whether he had -- he ep had three jobs in fairly quick Succession, Whether he replaced: a3 iiarvey as head of the Cuban: Task Force, then he becane Chief of o4 |MUM, the Western Nemisphere Division, and then he becane for 410 First Stroet, S.E., Washington, 5.0. 26003 25 fa Short time Deputy Director of Plans. But he died of a heart r ve ee eee Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 79
Prone (Area 202) $44-6000 WARD & PAUL, AM FErsy SUryat, S.e., Weaartington, o.c, 20002 HY 50955 Agency. In fact, Cubella refused to take it. When we wrota report, we thought he accepted it, but I've since learned he 16 ji refused it. He said it was hot practical, - 1? Because he was a doctor it Was Suggested that he could 1g | acduize the material to put in the pen, but he refused to acc 19 || it. 20 Conversations continued, ana finally the Agency arx anged rad to put down two caches at Sea off the coast of Cuba, one of 21 gp ||waich had weapons in it, one of which had just general equipmen 24 Senator Schweiker. Couid either ‘of those involve the st 24 that appeared in the Press under Colonel Prouty's staterent? . . . . ' . Po FESS, tir, Breckinridge, No, sir, ' on at 25 an RR ee OR, ork Ma od ete, Ven ; Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library Decld: 321127274 Page 80 o ; attack. .I don't know whether he had at that time ~~ it Would che 1 e | be in October of 1963, 3 Mr. Colby. I think at that time he was either head of 4 ||Cuban force or Chief of the Weste.n Hemisphere Division, 5 Chairman Church, Will you get that for the record? “6 Mr. Colby. Yes, sir, 7 Mr. Breckinridge. The decision was taken to try and give g Cubella some instrument, A ball point pen was designed that 9 could be used as a syringe, Because Cubella was a Gector, the 10 |} pen was given to him in Paris on the 22nd of Nove: mber, 1963, 11 || With the suggestion that he use it, 12 Chairman Church, By whom was the pen given? 13 Mr. Breckinridge. It was given by a case officer of the my ory | -
g 8 1 Z a 2 8 FE 3 E 4 5 . & 7 8 9 10 12 ; 12 2 é Fs 13 a e : 14 15 16 1? 18 2 19 3 20 a $ 2h 3: 22 os . 2 23 & re 24 it . 2 3 25 Senator Schweiker. pid that come jater, Colonel Prouty? _ dr, Breckinridge. We Still don't know what Colonel Prouty' Statement refers to. | Mr. Xnoche. Prouty's allegations go back to 1959, Senator Schweiker. What? . Mr. Knoche. 1959, late 1959 ana early 1960. Mr, Breckinridge, We arranged to have a Cuban refugee leader meet Cubella in Spain, at which time he gave nim an additional weapon. That would have been in February of 1964, I think. Chairman Church. What kind of weapon was given to him? Mr. Breckinridge. t is my recollection it was a rifle, I am not Sure of that. a | Cubella continued to hava conversations and meetings from time to time as he came out of Cuba, and finally. in the middie of 1965 the decision was taken to cut off contact with him because there were serious questions about the security of his organization, He was arrested, I think. 2 think 1 have gotten my dates right. It is subject to correction. He was arrested in the early part of 1966 and tried, made a confession, had a public trial, which was reported in the press, tees I wonder if I might check those datas? a on . a Py, Chairman Church. Surely. so ~ . o no omens £ While you check those Cates, perhaps Nr. .Colby could 6 PEAY 4 : My eg i uo Bes it a Sn Nee by havitd . Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:321L27%24 Page 61 Seer non Cenatrontonee
1 |} explain how it was during this period that Cubella was able 2 || to return to Cuba and travel to Europe, Phone (Ares 292) $44-C000 3 _ f assume he was able to return to Cuba? 4 Mr. Colby. We-was a Cuban officer at that time, and 5 |! apparently loyal to Castro. He would go out on various trips . 6 j.and things like that, and we would meet him there. 7 Mr. Schwarz. He was the Man who met with Mr. Hunt in 8 Madrid? 9. Mr. Colby. He met with a friend of Mr. Hunt. A Cuban exii jo | met Cubella-in Madrid. That is when the weapons were handed 12 . Hr. Schwarz.- Was Mr. Hunt in Madrid at that time? Mr. Colby. Yes. WARD & PAUL ie on Mr. Breckinridge. No, because this man by the name of a) of Artimo, met Cubella in Madrid in December of 1964, and in wo on nN SUNTEU Ree river ecm vinaananesanashdedis y6 |] February 1965 he made the Gelivery of the weapons. Hunt was 17 not assigned there until the middle of 1965, after this was ig |over- We,don't know where that story came from. - Mr. Colby. Hunt and Artimo are very close, and he is the 19 20 godfather of one of their children, and things like that. He 21 | may Nave told him about it, \ 20 Chairman Church. During this period you have described, | 23 when these various contacts were made with Cubella, who was oq | the highest officer within the CIA who had knowledge of chese e5 Contacts ana wie authorized them to be made, as far as. your WE ON Pe LEME, wading FORD TTEEIEUIOL, deta tre UU Photocopy from ; mm pen ce . Gerald Ford Library TEN PY GS ey ae \ HY 50955 BDocld: 32112724 Page 82
lL |} investigation shows? - 2 Mr. Breckinridge. ZI don't know the level at which the ™ 5 |} contacts were Known, I would assume that the continuing contac Phone (Area 202) 544-6006 4 ||were known at a high level, but I have to assume that, and tnis 5 goes to a point when Senator Schweiker was asking the question 6. at the last time. This is the last instance that we know of ? {iin which assassination was invelved. 8 . Senator Schweiker. That is, both your records and your 9 ltinterviews indicate that this was the last known activity, 10 | according to your investigation? 11 Mr. Breckinridge. That was Specifically related to 3 Le | Castro, . . 2 : . 13 Senator Schweiker. And that date was when? a * . & « . ~ : . $ 14 Mr. Breckinridge, Well, our contact with fae Cubella croup 15 |/was broken off in June of 1965, , OO, (en Ts, iN 16 Senator Schweiker. June o¢ when? oS : an ; ; . aa f L? Mrs, Breckinridge, 1965, | es 18 I don't want to confuse you, but I would like to intrecuce 19 a consideration. that rélates to this, 20 |. Caairman Church. Before you do that, I have asked what 21 your investigation shows is the highest officer who knew and 2g Nader whose authority: thése continuing contacts were made, and 23 lyou Said you assumed it must have been known to higher authority. ey. “ir. Breckinridge. I said that abeut the centects. About 430 First Street, S.E., Washington, B.6, 20603 the contacts, I assured this was known fairly hich in the AGenoy. 4 25 : y hig “FOP S8G¢pny Photocopy from ws ASS OS ioe Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Decld: 32112724 Page 83
WN t/ ba wa be : 1. . . Chairman Church. The contacts and their purpose? 3 2 _ Mr. Breckinridge. This is a distinction I Want to make, $ soe : 3 The people who were involved, and this is difficult -- : 4 t but their statement of state of mind, and your interpretation, § Iimay be different things. But the people who were involved - 6 considered that the purpose of the association with Cubella was 7 jhe was a man who was hich in the Castro government, he was a 8 |} man who represented a dissatisfied element, he had people wha 9 agreed with him, and the hope was that this could be develoced 10 |} into a group in Cuba that in some way could replace the govern~ 11 |} ment.. 3 12 : the conversations with Cubella were really not productive, < 13 |} and Cubella wanted demonstration of support, tangible suncort, g 14 } and the conversations progressed to the point that he wanted 15 | equipment with which he could commit and assassination. 16 In the minds of the people who dealt with him, the question 1? of assassination was not uppermost, so much as it was to give 18 him a material demonstration of support. . 19 I don't mean to be trite, but the United States x the ° é 20 | Aconey has in the past provided weapons of one kind or another 7 a pecple, paramilitary. In the minds of these people, hewever g pe j credible to you this distinction is drawn, so assassination : 23 became a consiceration, but assassination had not ree : 2A  obsective ee “a ic Vs ad = 25 | Yam sorry, one more point. . ° - Photocopy from ibra HW 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 84 Gerald Ford Lib ry oU
Phone (Ares 202) $44-690i WARD & PAUL SAU First SATGal, 5.E Washington, OC. 20003 HW 40955 LO ll 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 | 19 20 21 22 24 25 The > point at which they began to provide weapons to hin should have required higher level approval. f don! t know whakt the level of approval was. | Mr. Schwarz. It should have under the normal procedu~es? Mr. Breckinridge. Yes, sir. “ Chairman Church. At one point a meeting tcok place and an agent of the CIA gave him a ballpoint pen that hag been special: designed to camouflage a syringe, and gave it to him with the recommendation that it would be filled with Poison and used <o kill Castro. .Are you Saying that the agent may have done this without the knowledge of the Director or the Deputy Director for Plans, someone high in the Agency? Mr. Breck Kinridge. No; I am Saying there should have been bed authorization. I don't know the level of that authorizatior. merely tried to draw a distinction because it is a question raise | in my mind, it was raised by Senator Schweiker's question -- wher was the last attempt of asSasSination? ~ This developed to the point where assassination was involved, and this was the last such interest that we know of, Senator Schweiker. Are you Saying after the incident that 2 Senator Church just asked you about, at that point the emchasis shifted fron asSsassinating him to replacing him? Is that what you are. trying to tell us, or did I misconstru- a an ee arte that, too? | Photocopy from r we me RN, co ; ° Gerald Ford Library “vo fe a 2 Se rey ? aed try rt is sf Decld: 32112774 Page 65
Prone (Ares 202) 544-6000 Li 12 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 410 First Street, 5.E., Washington, 0.C, 20003 25 13 | Mr. Breckinridge. No; I am confusing the issue by trying to deschibe the state of mind of the people who were involvea i the operation. ‘Chairman Church, We don't even know who were involved. y, tell us that. Mr. Breckinridge. As far as I know, Mr. Fitzgerala would be the highest level that I know was aware of this, Chairman Church, What was his position? We are back to that, Mr. Colby. Chief of the Western Hemisphere Division. teemee 8 we oe | Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library aa, 5 ape Se cry ee Nee awe tt HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 36
WARD & PAUL 2° re ° 9 8 < Ps ~ & ° te & . - < = @ € H 410 First Streot, $.E., Wasningion, 0.€, 20003 16 Not’ tot 10 il 12 13 14 15 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 -rationale is Photocopy fram Senator Morgan. Is hs dead? . Gerald Ford Library mir. Colby. Yes, si ty ° ° Mr. Breckinridge. Tha problem that you ars having, which is oné that we have, is Yeconstructing certain aspects of this, quits frankly, and wea hava attampted to reconstruct lt by tha record, wheres the record Supports it by intarvisws, wheres the interviews can fill gaps, and it wes +o try to get from peODls involved their rationale, The c[ficult, complex, and I have tried to convey that because it was brought to my Mind by Senator Schivsicter's * Quzstion. could help interprst this from a cultura? * ‘Mr. Colby: “If I ot Iothink the point is that we located this major, hes 7 s oo, +o . . . ed leooxsd like a verv promising contact within Cuba who coula’- - b J are: Ree sibly replace Castro er bring about his disnosition, so "Ss 169] fe} cifics. h anv sD qu orth, just remove him without -in the course of the conversations, the 1963 meeting vith the ballpoint pen took places. ‘¥e don't havs as to wno authorize€a thet particuler aspect. concerning the ballpoint pen. The fact that we then went on with him until '64 and '65 with the offers of weapons fits into the general support of that sffort and doesn‘t necessarily tt coincida with the deliberate attsumots to assassinats him, although it could, and our records don't clearly indicate one ‘ sm gh i 207 Ire Aa iste HW 50955 Docld: 32112774 Page @7
« Prone (Ares 202} $446600 WARD & PAUL HW 50955 430 First Stroot, $.€., Washington, 9.6. 29003 Crt 10 ll 12 13 “14 15 16 1? Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library \ way or the Other on that, ~ Chairman Church. A cache of weapons delivered On tha coast of Cuba hardly constitutes an arsenal by which it reasonc could be assumed that the government can ba overthrown. Xt Gozs, however, fit into a schame of providing tha Major and i2« his cohorts with a capability of assassinating the Cuban leaser Mr, Colby. It also coincides with the possibility of the first step toward additional arms. } Jam not denying it, Mr. Chairman. I am saying that the records don’t clearly indicate it, ard this gets back to Mr Schwarz's original question to me -~ can you define “assass 3 ge oe a o tion"? I would respactfully request that I don't gst into that becauss thers is a quastion as =o whe: you ars supporting armed action and whin you are committing an assassination. Chairman Church. All right. During this whole pzrica We understand that the Director of the CIA, who was Me. MeCore, {hb e had Seid ha had no knowledges of th fe th - a th Ongoing activities. o> tt ir, Colby. I would inagine that his testimony that he gid not know of an assassinztion would be consistant with mv comment as to the weapons being given in support of armed actio: but not the spacific assassination plans. I don't know that . put I am saving that is a vossibl ¢ mos ay exDlanation of tha differ 13 ¢ between those stories. , TS Chairman Church. We will hava to question Mr. McCone much . BA I ER za py poe era Docld: 321123774 Page 88
WAHD & PAUL . Phone {Area 202) $44-4000 hr ee ered Cot 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HY 50955 Docld: ~~ — aw tent ON FR Oo Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library more closely on that point. But you ave unable now to tell us in connection with thases later activities whether or not there was spacific knowledae of thair congection with the assassination purpose, above tha level of mir. Fitzgerald? . ot Mr. Breckinridge. At this moment 1 cannot. Senator Morgan. May I pursua a line of questions for just z few minutes? First of all, tir. Schwarz, this document, Exhibit A, who 2 prepared it? +3 og faz 12] i=) 7] ct 7 sh o K ra Q pue s gm fond htt ough Graft that was prepared only Mr. Schwarz. That is the Ken Grear dccument. a Mx. Colby. Prsevoared by one of Mr, Brackinridgs's'y - 4a = ibe .) associatas, Mr. Xenneth Greer. ne we . ° Neen” Senator Morgan. Whet wes tha purpose of the vorenaration of this documsant? “Mr. Colby. It followed ths 9th of way, 1973 directive ‘by sir. ‘Schlesinger for a Yeport on 4ll questionable activiti-s. These ware gathered togethar by ‘ir. Greer and the other members of the Inspector Genzeral’s offices ard ea summary of them Was Provided to me to usa to brisf the Chairman of the two committed: + Senator Morgan.. This was the best information that tha Me. Colby. That was tha information available to tha a 321127274 Page 6&9
3 oO 4 a e ie o N o N a s e < s c ° £ WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, $.£., Wasnington, O.6. 20003 1 oo Inspector General at thse tima. £ think I would Sey it was ah} 2 : . , ' a . . . . tye . I don't think we instituted an aggressivsa, positive investiqas. 5 on OO We Lather collected what we hed availabla, Senator Morgan. Wall, there have been assassinatior 5 Lh ~ t a. % attempts or sfforts on the Part of: the government. There's no & : : : . ' question in my mind. The questicn I want to pursue is that 7 : . . mts an the document marked hera Exhibit A, project 72 Rifle, it 8 L ‘ eg - - . stated that early in the Kennedy Administration, "tha Whita 9 co House urged Richard Bissel +o creates an executive action 16 eae capability." Li . ‘faa That is a gensral Standby capability to carry out 12 . + gs . 4SSsassinations. 13 . . : . Now, that was the primary Purpose of ZR Rifla; -is: thet 14 : your understendina? 15 : ; eps ne gs i a 4 tr. Colby. It was one of the Durposes of ths ZR RiFla 16 project. 1? Senator iorgan. And it was done at the instigation of | 18 | “the Whites Houss"? 19 Mr. Colby. We have one record which states that Me. 20 | Bissel made this statement without furthar precision. /2 ; ia = el Senator Morgan. Ané@ wheres is Mr. 8isse1?: ed ane ae ae Mr. Colby. Mr. Bissel, I think, livas in Connecticut now. | ZS Senator Morgan. Now latsr on we find that this project | t 25 not? . : oc ‘ ‘ Photocopy from a4 continued on under a man by the nama of Bill Narvay, did it | | PNT OY TA MPS me Gerald Ford Library | HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page $0
Gt Prone {Aras 202} $44-6000 8 9 10 11 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 “AM FItdh Direat, D.e,, vrasriagton, 0.0, 20003 “ "Senator Morgan. a Memorandum +o Yes, sir, Mr. Colby. And then on June 27, the Chief FI staff. Wheat does « Mr. Colby. FI stall’ mean? Senator Morgan. ‘Stating that the original 3 Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 1973, he wrota for smploying Q.J. Winn no longer existed ard raised the question of his tarminetion? Mr. Colby. '63 was i+? .Senator Morgan. Juna of 1963. He was tarminated in April of 1964? Mr. Colby. Yes. Senator Morgan. Mow thera is no deubt in mind but wnet this preject was kaoyn bv the Director of CIA? i ‘i. Colby. Apvoroved by the Director. I don't think we ‘Can say for sure. Sanator Morgan. Mr. Colby, isn't it a reasonable assu- totic ? that”° if a proj\ect of this magnitude was to cerry out the . en tay, assassination, it would not bes ecrsated without the epproval of thse Director of the CIA? © . .3 HOW, My. Colby. -It better not I will Senator Morgan. ral even in 1961 it would hava been so crs * Colby, x PROP) Car iss Mr, would think HW 50955 DocId:32112724 Page 91 that the general ides, ~% a a De created without my aoprove 1 certainly is not reasonable to assune
3 3 1 j : 2 é 3 4 E 4 10 11 5 12 2 . Hy Ss 13 Q £ 3 14 15 16 17 18 : 19 3 ; 20 3 2 Rl :. 22 i 3 23 3 Fy ad 3 : 25 HW 50955 the specific project or not but the general idea is so significant, and that is tha indication that Mr. Dulles did know of this act-at tha time. Whather it was Specifically brought cto the attention of his successor I could not actually testify one way or the other. . Senator iHorgan. Hr. Colby, can you maka any mors sensitiv: a project at the CIA then one of assassination? Mr. Colby. Wen fir. Schlesinger cama ‘in I mada sure hea WaS aware of Ssnator and you have gained as Director, aren't you satisfizd eVery director knew of this projsct? Morgan. And this being true, arentt you satisfied in your owa Mind that all your directors were aware of this oroject ZR 2ifle until such time as it was tarminated? : Mr. Colby. That is 2 conclusion, Senator. I can't give testimony on that. Senator Morgan. Tt is a conclusion, but you ars an expert. oo, ron Mr. Colby. Right. - | a _ oo -~ Senator Morgan. You are the Director of the CIA and Téa nave had the experience and knowledge of the-his tory of the Cra. ; - sot . Lat me ask you, based upon vour story, tha history and the knowlsdge of the CIA that vou know of, have as Direc tor, face oF Mr. Colby. In the the statement by Me. feCons the’ Toto GERM i Photocopy from ‘ i) Gerald Ford Library Docld: 321127774 Page 9? a
Gi il 12 is 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 295. Doceldad: 32112774 Page 93 know Of (it, he did not challenge. I agree with you, he should havs known ebout it, could not say: for Sure that statement is not accurate Senator Morgan. final qua nh Agency when? Mr. Colby. Sanator other quastions racordg I I was pursuing this lat I asked these questions not to try te show assassin “think that ‘until 2 it raises a question Castro hinss rs the reason I hava Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library but J left Bxcede uld Like to sey this so I can remember why door to whather or not later on we should Gecida to look irto seed, Tet
10 il 13 14 15 16° 17 18 20 So ete wen ae 22 23 24 Photocopy from A Chairman Church. Senator Nart, Gerald Ford Library Senator Hart of Colorado. Mr. Colby, in connection with ZR Rifle, I think you testified or your associate said this was a multi-purpose operation, including stealing codes, and the development of the capability of what euphemistically is called executive action. In your professional judgment, and with your history of your background in the Agency, does it make any sense to you that a Major operation; a major intelligence gathering operation of the sort of. stealing codes, whitch: I-assume means fromvother governments, would be mounted under the direction of a man about whom all I know is that Mr. Harvey has a background of something lixe a soldier of fortune, and funced at the level, I should say, of $7500 to $10,000? Does it not suggest to you that stealing” cédés was in fact an internal cover for what was explicitly an assassination opération with unlimited, non-vouther financial capability? Mr. Colby. No, not that it is purely a cover. In the first place, Mr. Harvey had a very successful tour in Bexlin where he ran the Perlin tunnel operation, which was one of our major successful intelligence operations. Mr. Harvey was a very colorful figure who had his lifestyle, which is different than some others, but he had been very effective at that, and very adventuresome in that category of signals intelligence and a very xenturesome idea of that nature. . Saye FEE, w- * Pacer . so" ‘ - ~ ATS TT PES YT ame HW 50955 Decld: 32112724 Page 94 |
lie was in the asSignment of Chies of the FI Division stare, ~ Teele Lew awa ere enrns S jf} work vhich must be done in the clandestine service. 4 It hindles our efforts today to penetrate into foreig. 5 licode rooms abroad, and things of that nature, and it involves _ 6- the breaking into of safes and things, all that cemplicated 2 re stafe's. major function is to conduct the signals intelligenc 7 jmaterial. ; 8 _ Now, the thing that puts it together with this "capability" | 9 |}executive action, is the hich degree of compartmentation of 10 | this material, that kind of a Project. In other words, a ll j code~breaking, a stealing operation, obviously that is to be 12 i kept very, very sécret. If you get caught in it, it has ali a WARS & KAW | sorts of very bad diplomatic implications, and so forth, 14 ||} Therefore, there is a system of very sharp compartmentation of 15 |] the work of that particular group. 17 ||who are willing to crawl into Somebodysielseiis “code room and 19 So, given you have a man who had some good technical experience, who is a venturesome type himself and is running a 18 |) take the chance of getting caught, | 21} Pregram which is not too far off the requirements of high 22 | compartmentation, and a very high risk kind of operation, and 23 | therefore, fox Nr. Bissel to have selected Harvey to carry out a4 |} this project seems to me that it is compatible that he could FLY THST SEBEL, Sebag WORAGION, UG. ZUUUS 25 be running code-breaking pr rojects, or code Stealing Projects, . . * om a at Te pare ce of 16 You also are dealing with some very venturesome people Sia | “8 "J Photocopy from rald Ford Library HW 50955 DoclId:3291127724 Page 95 | Ge
LO il 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 25 a4 295 | aS well as this other activity. How, “in the lifestyle at the time, not mentioning the secona one, this gets back into the recordkeeping that we have been discussing. It was not to be put on the record although to be done. That is a perfectly proper hypothesis, it seems to me, but to say that thewcode Stealing was only a cover I think is probably an unwarranted conclusion, Senator Hart of Colorado. What about the level of funding) of $7,500 to $10,000? Mr. Colby. That is not very much money for that kind of an operation. Senator Hart of Colorado. Precisely, I think it is too little. Mr. Colby. No. For a capability of that nature, it is dargely a staff operation. In other words, you use your own ‘Staff officers, You may hire an agent or something, but I dontt think you can draw much conclusion from the actual number on the figure one way or the other. this might not have been -the only such project. You know, an assassination project would cost you more money than that, too. | Senator Hart of Colorado, Absolutely. Nr. Colby. I find it hard to say.that that is the only amount of money involved. I think you get into a situation ‘. where additional money would be put into either of those kinds Retiree, SESE SS canny gw ochahacanaaaaaiten ptine FSR GN om c . - Photocopy fr a n>) C PE carey re oy - Geraid Ford Library Pie ye 28h cit gd HW 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 96
ys 1 of activities. I: wouldn't get hung up on the bureaucratic 2 aspect cf the number of dollars. | i) Senator Hart of Colorado. So Mr. Harvey, Lf the decision 4 ||were made to try to liquidate a fcreign leader, and Mr, Pacvey 5 found the instrumentality, the individual to do that, and that " . & | required $100,000, all he had to do was come back in and say? 7 Mr. Colby. fle could get it. 8 Mr. Schwarz. I think we should have the record reflect g jitwo things. The two gentlemen talking are not eyewitnesses to 10 || What we have. been talking about. | Li Second, and related to that, for us to pursue this matter, 12 | we must have, and‘ must have right away, the better evidence 13 which is in the possession of the CIA, which is at least the 14 | Inspector Gencral report of 1967; and more importantly than that] 15 | the interview notes reflecting whatever interviews you had 16 with shonévér you interviewed at that time or later, | 1? Mr. Colby. These.we. will make available to you to the “48 extent we-have them. 19 : Mr. Breckinridge. We retained no notes. We kept only the 20 | one report that we submitted to Mr. Helms at that time, the one ‘91 | COPY: When he left the Agency he returned it to us. Now, the files on the Cubella affair and the Trujiieeiaffai ae 23 exist, and they are available. a . a 2A Mr. Schwarz. Can we have lt unéerstood that, Mr. cS 2 ' 25 Breckinricge, you will as you did with the initial mater sab, ant Sy UT em my aes - Photocopy from “ Gerald Ford Library i HY $0955 Docld: 3271127774 Page 97
m 2 8 1 : A 2 o z 3 FA 4 6 « 6. 9 8 9 10 il Pe] < a 13 a & ; 14 15 “16 1? 18 m 19 g » 3 20 ] & 21 : 22 a : 23 2 24 a . 25 come down sometime early next week and we can go over it and so forth? Mr. Colby. Sure. If we can just have the same sort of normal ground rules.about the papers. ‘Chairman Church. Sure. They always L nless --“__~ : Y always apply unless ~~ “~~ Mr, Colby. I know. Chairman Church. -- unless we say differently. Mr. Schwarz. No, just following up one nore thing on Senator Hart's question of some time ago. Would you determine with respect to five different pexiods | of time whether, first, there was any internal evaluation | within the Central Intelligence Agency as to whether or nor | the assassination attempts should continue and, second, whether — there was any discussions with persons outside of the Central Intelligence Agency as to whether or not the plot should continud and the period of time would be the initial autho ization, which was March 1960, after the Bay of Pigs, during the missile risis. And, parenthetically there, will you state whether it | j}was possible Castro mignt have been assassinated pursuant to an ongoing plan during a period of time when the United States and Russi «a were close to a nuclear ‘¢onfrontation, The next. Finally, at the time cf the break-off in June of 1965, which I believe was Mx Breckinridee! s testimony, was anybody in higher authority told that the cperation had been broken off e _- i tot nem aN case is John F.Kennedy's assassination, : | | ar 1 FR P32 Aly Map Photocopy from | Geraid Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:321127274 Page 98
i Because that will bear upon whether anybody in higher authority 2 Ihad authorized or requested the operation. 5 Mr. Colby. Yes, fine. | 4 Hr, Schwarz. Can I pick up then on another subject wich 5 ilwe just barely touched on last time, Mr. Colby? _ &. » This is related to the question I asked you about the use 7 of criminal elements. 8 | Senator Mathias. Before we leave this, I have one question | 9 Chairman Church. Senator Mathias. LO Senator Mathias. In light of the fact this poison pen was 11 | actually proffered on the 22nd of November, 1963, is there a , 12 scintilia of evidénce ~~ and was proffered to a Major in the ; 13 Cuban Army on active duty --~ is there a scintilla of evidence 14 that anyone in the Cuban Government had any knowledge or suspicio 15 | prior to that date that this was a project that was planned? 16— Mr. Colby. There is certainly no evidence that anyone 17 | had that information with respect to the Cubella operation. 18 Mr, Breckinridge. No. 19 Mr. Colby. The second onase of the Mafia operation had bee 20 | wrapped up by then, think. wnseerg eros Queue j 21 Mr. Breckinridge. Yes. 22 Mr. Colby. The individual in Cuba involved in it had 23 jj} take asylun, think, oo, . 24° Mr. Breckinridge, No, the sequence is a little cifferent. 25 || Mr. Colby. A little later: 3 Photocopy from ESP Crary Fy Gerald Ford Library aD ha Sid wk Od 5 HY 50955 DBDoclid: 32112724 Page 99
PRON (Alan ZUZ) DeeDULY WARD & PAUL 410 First Streot, $.E., Washington, O.C, 20004 L Mr. Breckinridge. Yes. There were people who reportedly 2 were mnt inte Cuba, a team of three people -- and Io said reports; tre 3 | because we were working then through a Cuban exile leader. 4 They had the assignment Of recruiting additional peapte toa 5 carry out such plans as might be developed, We never knew what 6° happened to those people -- whether . they came back -- only that 9 they were sent in. | But if you are looking for a possibility of knowledge of 8 g yan assassination plot, conceivably those three peovle could be 10 the source. of it, but not that the United States Government was behind it. Ll 12 Senator Mathias. But it is conceivable that Castro and 13 his government could have come upon some evidence that some lot was afoot? 14 |P 3 15 Mr. Colby. He certainly could have cross allegations, ans 16 you really must assume that various of the other kind, even 17 independent activities, or the first phase of the Mafia prosran 18 jcould have produced allegations of attempts against him with 19 the comment that CIA’ or the ‘United. States was behind it. The 20 possibility of that kind of allegation is just almost infinite. Senator Mathias, Particularly considering the nature of Bl the instruments that were being deployed? Faas, . Mr. Colby. Yes, sir. . ; iy et Mr. Breckinridge, There is another consideration. ~~. Y 24 Chairman Church. You really haven't told us on the recor} 25 .s | men Pry CE oars pains Photocopy from 7 se owey tf oe Te it Moar Oe mt Wo a Re . Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 100
PUVA PRT away wo owes ea) = se) a ood * ond a) tw WARD & PAUL cr 14 15 16 17 18 19 ~ par ra) wl. nN oe 410 Ferst Stevst, §.£., Washington, O.6. 20003 rs) to ee ey until just now, in re&ponse to Senator Mathias, just what the second phase of the Mafia connection for assassination Castro was, We really haven't had the detail except as you gave it to Senatos Mathias, x wonder if you could complete the record on this second phase. Give us all the information that you know about that. Mr. Breckinridge. Before I do, one additional consideratic The Cuban exile community in Miami was engaged in a great deal of plotting of its own and a great deal of hyperbole, and it is safe to assume that Castro also had reports of assassinati schenes or threats from that group. So there is cone more source te that sort of thing. Photocopy from ; . fe EEN, Gerald Ford Library a oo . : By a4 2X Pe TP eR EY rs wna HY $0955 Doecldi327112724 Page 101
Gt 10 ll l2 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 22 22 £9 24 29 Senator Morgan. they Whare is Cubella now? Is he still in prison? - . Mr. Breckinridge. In jail on the Isle of Pines. Senator Morgan. Are we surs of that? Mr. Brackinridga. I asked somz body the other day end said that is wnsra they think ha is. Senator: Morgan. I just wondsred whose égent he really was. Mir. Colby. hes baen in jail for a long time if he was Castro's, Senator Horgan. You testified he was able t out of Cuba fairly frequently. ‘Mr. Colby. Ns was an associata of Castro's, no question about that, but he had an ixdsnendant with us that finally got picked up. -.I thiak thee Mi, Chairnan, that wa try to keep his nams out of decumeants for tha: reason. There is no uss getti more troyble. a ‘Sanator Schwsaicker That is for sSurs. 0 go in and thers is relation whee pn TEND, is imoor Chairman Church. There is no argument on that score. Would you pleass furnish us with all of ths details es to the second phase of the Mafia connection? Mr. Breckisridgs. ‘a will give you mors accurate dstail When We give you tha report, but I will rscits now the best a S66) that LI can recall. f Pe NED See Photocopy from B Noe STP Ea Nine . 1 Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 102 any published ing him in t
LO Li 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 a2 Chairman Church. Bafors you do, would you just explain exactly what the relationsnip between CIA and Giancana and Maheu was because that is not clear in my mind. Would you develop for the Committas that whols relationshior Mr. Breckinridge. Robert Maheu used to work for tha as F3l and he resigned from the FBI and opsnad a private invastiga tive firm here in Washington erd CIA used him from time to time for certain kinds of support activities. Chairman Church. What hind of Support activities? Mr, Breckinridgs. - Oa One Occasion he obtained ai fame }s companion for an,important foreign bkeader, Chairman Church. What other kird of support? Mr. Sreckinridge. In the early days -- and this bscomes an embarrassment. As nearly as I can reconstruct, the osoole waco knew him decidsd to put him on a retainer in the Office of. Security, which they did f or awhils, until he ves so successful he said hs ro lonqer needed tha retainer, which ne didn™t do. much to earn. He later got involved Yapresentind ons Of Che Greek shipping intsrests and wa ware given the results of soma of the information thet he obtained from that Where thera was a fight between tliarchos and Orassis . We think hea may haves had soma involvement in another for‘sign leader's companionshivo when he wes in this country. I don't have the details. I think we can probably reconstruct Lf for you. So | . ES Gerald FordLibrary «= “"' |" voaw oa eta HW 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 103
Gt 16 12 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 25 4 25 Ll lived in Los Angelss, who had the concession for the Chairman Church. Can we have ths file on him? . ~ He. Breckinridge. I think we will provids one on thet. We hava ons, yes. ° Chairman, Church. Very well. Mr. Breckinxvidgs. ‘hen Mahsu. left Washington and moved ‘an out west, I think first to Los Angeles, later to has Vecas, where he became associated with thea Nughes organization, and whea the question aross about getting an introduction to tha Hafia, because they did havs gambliag intarasts in Cuba at that tims, the Office of Sacurity, Colonsl Edwards wes asked ° if he could zstablish a contact, and he went to Mansu, or » % had somsone go to Meheu, to s#2 if Matis su could make such an uo introduction. Maheu knew a man by ths name of Johnny Roselli, who {U if Dy one t+ c $+. macht ines On the strip in Las Vegas, and he arranged, Rosslli ib arranged @n introduction to -- the CIA actually arrenced, ¢ our tian didn’t mest Glarncana, I don't balisve, arranged an tO a Man by the names of Santos Trafficante. ch in Trafficante was the head of we ab and Castro hed allowed them. Pirst ha had closed them, than ne Cuban gambling interssts he rvsopened them hoping to attract tourists, And Trafficants cravelled to aad from Cuba. Gianca ma Sarved only es the introduction to Trafficanta. ® wae, wae >) Seco ey at k New be et Ne wadat a *. Photocopy from HW 50955 pool Ghyale By st Oey 104 Q introduction, but Giancana who in turn arranged an introduction =
TAD E) COLO Pres HY 50955 Docld: 32112724 Page 105 Photocopy from 1. This was all dong through Roselli. Gerald Ford Library 2 ~ Our people never -~ they all dealt with Roselli, who ip © | turn deal with ths others, 4 Roselli was in essencs &@ cut-out or Served as the mie@dln 5 man. Roselli was never paid for his servicas. 6 Glancana Clearly knew eventually thes JOVernmaent associatia: 7 Roselli came to know of it, though initially he was introduced 8 to tha CIA Dsrson.as a Man who worked for Maheu on an assicrment 3 by @ private client, 10 So initially ths COver story was Maheu's private Client 11 |} who he@ an intsrest inside Casa. Giancana never really was 12° involved subsequently. 13 He did arrange -= it was Trafficants from than on -- ang 14 | vrefficanta had a sources insidg Cube who had an offics, had 15] 2 position in the Offics of tha Prims Minister. Na wes belisved 16 | to have access +o Castro and a poison pill was developed thas 17 | he was to insert into Castro's foo. The Pills were sent in . , 18 | to tis MEn. What we did not know a= the time was the man 19° hed lost his job énd lost his access and the oills wera returned 20 hr, Colby. That is thse firs phase. 21 Ssnator Schweicker, VYould vou dats that? 22 Mr. Breckinridga, That woulda go inte the early pert of 23 1961, March-April, 1961. . 24 tir. Schwarz. Ths pilis wera given as Part of the first . ETS, 25 phase to a Second Persona in Cuba; is that correct? nae,
LO il 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19° 20 21 22 23 24 £5 Mr.. Breckinridge. Roselli, through Trafficante, was exile leader in Miami by the name of Anthon his name is a Sensitiva matter. Varona was the leader of one supoorted by the CIA as pa of Pigs. Varona was us with ths CIA. Varona had énd he wes ° a fo a te “oO CaXs on ROSe]1li's story was that he repress who hed iy * as wes Treffice Varoraé Castro frocuented and e wre Mr. Breckir the | Technical | Se Mr. Brechkinri tir. Sec any wey bet HY 50955 Docld:32112724 Page 106 Just before the first Phase anded, introduced to anothar Cub y Varone. of the groups that was being of ths prep happy with his association, with the ass fu enough m previous contact with the criminal elenent a by Roselli with this mission. 5 Kaew Ssomsons who w fo "Oo be a) 69] fix. Schwarz. Could you sta+ xf ads in whe Shey svar mada such pills beforsa? od gf 4¥er uSed Sotulinun as tat * ™“s it Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library