TOP SECRET ~~ * 3 1 That brings me to the last exchange we had with Mr. Colby 8 z BC , , 3 0 which you should know, and if you can think of anything else, N : § _ John,I haven't related,please relate it. ¢ i) , 5 A Colby said that he knew that this would have to come to 6 light in some way, that he was hopeful that when it did, the 6 Administration was hopeful when it did, it was done in a way 7 that aia. not personalize or particularize a particular incident 3 ' and that the findings could be made that such attempts had taken place and that this had not happened in the recent past, 9. . . it was not going on now, it was policy that was contrary to it, 10 | - . and then such recommendations as to the future that the Committee Ll - ~ - might want to make. ; 12 | A So he anticipates that the disclosure will ccme in an Fy 13 , ; g official way. He is concerned mainly about the manner of 5 4] . : disclosure. 15 That makes me think unquestionably he is aware of what 16 7 , : the: Rockefeller Commission is planning to do and anticipates 17 _ a, this Committee will have to do something as well. If at the 18 time the Rockefeller Commission makes its report this Committee; ” 19 : oo 8 - ‘doesn't know anything about the subject and we have to say. we O 20 oo | oo Le) . : ° don't know anything about the subject, it seems to me we are 2 21 . , | FA putting ourselves in a very awkward position. . FS 22 ul How we deal with the subject isa different question. We wi + . = 23 Es will have to decide that ourselves. But colby. from all rd 24 oo . « appearances is read to tell us all that he knows, and I think i HW 54653 Docld:32423498 Page 47
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000- WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 HW 34653 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DoctlId: TOP S2zCRer 44 we should get from him his statement and then decide what other evidence we need to fill out the picture and then, of course, decide how we are going to deal with it. We can't make the decision of how to deal with it until we know what it is we a are dealing with. Senator Goldwater. I just want: to get mysel£ on record. I am not going to stand in your way. This is something that you and I probably have been exposed to more than most other people in our lives, and you maybe get too close to it, yoou live with these people, and you get damn healthy respect for what you have to do and what we have to depend upon. I am going to have to 0 G0. I wanted to express my opinion, and I will call the editor. of the paper and get this cleared up I am not that close to him. Senator Huddleston. On the case of Castro, was it our agents who were actually attempting to commit the act? Chairman Church. We don't have the particulars but I judg from what Colby said, yes, that there were many discussions “| there were in addition to discussions, attempts. He mentioned some of the ridiculous proposals that were made including -- . discussion of a submarine that was going to put an explosive | in a seashell and blow him up while he was swimming, and he | said that to illustrate some of the bizarre proposals that were | made. But in addition to those proposals there were attempts, at least several, he didn't specify the actual number. TOP SECRET —_—_— 2493498 Page 48
Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.€., Washington, D.C. 20003 HW 54653 10 il 12 13 14 15 ‘us “17 18. 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 Docld:32423496 Page 49 -it. ‘tions? TOP SECRET ~~ ts Senator Huddleston. Actual attempts? Chairman Church. Yes. My own view is quite different . € from Barry's though I appreciate the reasons for his concern. I just don't think that the United States can sanction politica to . 4 assassination in times of peace and that there is nothing that can be accomplished by this that possibly benefits this country | as compared to the damage it has done to us all over the world, and one of the reasons we are in our present difficulty in my judgment in the world is because of the widespread belief that | this has been an instrument of American policy, that the CIA | ; has been the organ by which we have not only attempted to intrude in little countries in their own affairs, in every possible way, by which we have gong even to the point of assassination of foreign leaders. I think for the!sake of the country it has got to be stopped and this Committee has got to have a role in stopping. Senator Hart of |Colorado. Could I pursue "Dee's" ques=- | i 4 Did’ he go into enough detail to let us know whether these | people that we landed down there were Cubans, were they Americans, what was their relationship? Chairman Church, He did not go into that. We didn't have [ -time enough to go into that detail. But I was left with the | ‘clear impression that they were agents -- by agents, usually th TOP CECRET
Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 HW 54653 10 cr 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 _19 20 eal 22 235 24 25 DoclId: YOP SECRET = sit CIA means foreign nationals who are -- Senator Tower. Foreign nationals? Chairman Church. Engaged by CIA to perform a given missio and equipped, transported by the ‘CIA for the accomplishment of that mission. Senator Schweiker. Along the same line, I wasn't in on this conversation, but Colonel Fletcher Prouty has said very specifically that he helped to train these two people and we trained them and we landed them and tried to get them back out. | They didn't come back out. If he is stating the truth there is no question we were fully involved in that with Castro. Senator Hart of Colorado. I think you have stated one of the strong arguments against Barry's position, and that is that this is probably a whole subject area that is outside our control. Agents, former agents, friend of agents, are writing books, they are writing articles, bits and pieces of informatios coming out, and I agree with you that it undermines almost all of what this Committee was assigned to do to neglect to look — into these things. It is outside of our control. a Chairman Church. Furthermore, it is weill within the sco of our resolution because we are not confined by our resolution in any way to look at the intelligence communi ty only with. Senator Tower. No. respect to the domestic activities. 7 | j . i Chairman Church. That is another point. The Rockefeller | ! TOP Sacer 423498 Page 50