180-10142-10353 Qa SCA INTERVIEW OF JOSEPH PICCOLO, JR., 11 AUGUST 1978: On 11 August 1978 at 2:00 P.M. Dan Hardway and Charles Berk of the House Select Committee on Assassinations conducted a two hour interview with Joseph Piccolo, Jr. Mr. Piccolo, age 43, is presently an employee of the CIA working as an operations officer in the Deputy Directorate of Operations. He joined the CIA in 1957 and, with the exception of one year of duty with the Air Force, has continued until the present time in his employment with the Central Intelligence Agency. Prior to the beginning of the interview Mr. Piccolo was asked to read the CIA's omnibus release letter of 23 March 1978. After his examination of the letter, Mr. Piccolo indicated that he fully understood the letter's ‘, meaning. Mr. Berk then explained to Mr. Piccolo the mandate and: purposes «x of the Select Committee. Mr. Piccolo stated that at the time of President Kennedy's assassination he was a support assistance analyst in the DDO. His responsibilities included maintenance of records, running of traces, and Spanish language analysis for purposes of operational support. Subsequent to this position Mr. Piccolo undertook training during the spring of 1964 to become an operations officer. Mr. Piccolo further stated that his professional areas of interest were mainly concerned with Latin America. He also in- dicated that he served in thd cra's Mexico City Station fro{ | August 1965 to January 1968.) It was further ascertained that Mr. Piccolo was involved in some Agency operations ' directed against Cuba during the time periods 1962 to January 1968, January 1969 to January 1970, and a three month period during 1975. Mr. Piccolo was asked if he was familiar with the cryptonym AMMUG/1. He responded affirmatively and stated that A/1 was thefirst Cuban Intel- ligence Service (CUIS) defector from the then newly formed DGI, the CIA's (Y1Y2~/0BS3 a
Piccolo Interview, Page 2. Cuban counterpart for external security and counter-intelligence operations. Mr. Piccolo stated that he did not participate in the initial handling and debriefing of A/l but became involved in this case during the summer of 1964 when he first met A/l. At that time, Mr. Piccolo was assigned to "handhold" A/1l; i.e., to ensure that A/1 was properly accomodated and escorted and to provide companionship for A/1l. Mr. Piccolo recalled that A/l had been debriefeafin canada fatter his defection. He stated that the objectives of the initial debriefings would have been to gain biographic data on persons associated with the Cuban Intelligence Service and information on persons who might collaborate with the CIA. He indicated that he ceased contact with A/1 prior to 1966 and the last information he had was that A/l was residing infMiani, J Florida and was adjusting well to life in this country. As for the filing of the debriefing reports, Mr. Piccolo said the filing procedure would habe been dictated by the manner in which the case was handled; i.e., by subject or cryptonym or personality. He did state that debriefing reports would hale initially been held in the office » handling the case. ‘These repors would halve been "held tight" to allow time for operations to be developed while security risks 88S ~at a minimum. However , ho Yan Mr. Piccolo said he did know where such debriefing reports would now be located. Mr. Piccolo later became responsible for debriefing A/l. Mr. Piccolo was not able to recall the exact time period during which he debriefed ay Fel Renta e ee FOr | to six month period. Mr. Piccolo stated that [ saroid Swenson, Barney Hidalgo and Dan Piores fso debriefed A/1. Mr. Piccolo was queried as to the responsibilities of WH, ,, the
Piccolo Interview, Page 3. ‘CIA component responsible for the A/l case. He indicated that this component, - whose chief wa Harold Swenson orked against the CUIS. He further indi- cated that WH | to carry out its function, probably ran | | . operations. Mr. Piccolo was next queried whether he recalled a CIA component referred to as the "domestic exploitation section". Mr. Piccolo stated that this terminology was not familiar to him but that domestic exploitation would most likely have been located in a positive intelligence section of the Agency such as the Domestic Contacts Division. He did state, however, that recruitment or contact of persons in this country for utilization in foreign operations would have been the responsibility of every operations officer. He doubted that the Western Hemisphere Division would have run such an office but that operational recruitment would hae been handled as part of a specific project or program. Mr. Piccolo was queried whether A/1 providied any information to the ‘CIA on Lee’ Harvey Oswald and his possible contacts with the DGI. He responded that he recalls no A/l debriefing reports providing such infor- mation nor did A/l provide such information to him. Mr. Piccolo further declared thai{ Messrs. Swenson, Hidalgo, and Flores) never indicated to him that A/l had ever provided any information on Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. Piccolo was next queried as to the meaning of the term "Special Intelligence." He indicated that the term usually applies to the inter- ception of communications, e.g., Signal intelligence which would include radio waves and radar but would not have included electronic surveillance. Mr. Piccolo further stated that special intelligence would haife been handled by k special unit segregated from other agency
Piccolo Interview, Page 4. components. Mr. Piccolo was next asked if he had ever seen any photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald resulting from the photographic surveillance operations con~ conducted by the CIA Mexico City Station. He responded in the affimative Stating that he had seen two photographs #a3@ the person who showed jdm 7 7 yr, Picee j~ to him said were taken in Mexico City. #® said that the person, whose identity he was unable to recall, had shown him the pictures saying: (paraphrase) "These are the pictures of Oswald that we got in Mexico." He stated that he was led to understand that these two pictures had been taken of Lee Harvey Oswald either entering or leaving the Cuban Embassy/ Consulate in Mexico City. The first picture was a 3/4 full shot of Oswald exposing his left profile as Oswald looked downward. The second photograph which Mr. Piccolo recollected seeing was a back of the head view of Oswald. At this point in the interview Mr. Piccolo was shown CE 237, the famous photograph of the Mexico Mystery Man. All printed identivication bordering the photograph was covered prior to Mr. Piccolo's examination. Mr. Piccolo was then asked who the man in CE 237 was. Mr. Piccolo responded that he did not know but that the person was not Oswald. Mr. Piccolo was asked if this was one of the photographs he had seen and he responded in the ndgative. Mr. Piccolo was next shown a full frontal photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald. This photograph also had all printed material bordering its surface covered. When asked who the person in the photograph was, after a moment’s pause, Mr. Piccolo correctly identified the photograph as orkRof Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. Piccolo stated that he could not recall where or when he had seen the surveillance photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald but was certain of their presentation to him as such.
Piccolo Interview, Page 5.° hisknowledse concern: Mr. Piccolo was questioned about what-he-knew-abedtt the finding of the surveillance photographs of Oswald. He stated that he did not have first hand knowledge of that but that it was the type of thing, a’ coup, | that would have traveled through the Agency "grapevine". Mr. Piccolo stated that he had heard stories about a surveillance photograph of Oswald being found both in Mexico City and at CIA Headquarters in Langley. He said that Ann Goodpasture may have been the person who found a photograph of Oswald in Mexico City. He stated that he has heard several times that [charlotte Bustos found a photograph of Oswald at CIA Headquarters He ad The Chas hat vas not certain qvior when he first heard the attep story“but stated that at he was certain that he had heard it prior to eié last time that he heard g AB € stated that that last time he heard the story was during a He stated that discussion with a man with whom he shares an office: this man, had worked on the Oswald case during an “in house" investigation a couple of years ago. He said that they were talking about the case because of the HSCA's release of several photographs to the press with a request that anyone able to identify those photos contact the Committee. Mr. Piccolo stated that during the course of this discussion tated that {Charlotte pustos] "the gal at the Mexico desk", had found the surveillance photographs of Oswald. Mr. Piccolo stated that he assumed that had become aware of Ms. Bustos' jcoup through his research into the Oswald case. Finally, Mr. Piccolo speculated that any photographs of an American from Mexico City surveillance operations would have been sent to Headquarters and that he presumed someone would have found the photo of Oswald ina file made up of these photos.
Piccolo Interview, Page 6.— Mr. Piccolo was next asked whether he is acquainted with the following people: 1)| tno. 2) Douglas Gupton-no. 3) David Phillips-yes. 4) E. Howard Hunt-yes, but not well. 5) Maurice Bishop-no. 6) Ross Crozier=-no. 7) Antonio Veciana-no. 8)gStanley Watson-yes. 9) Clare Boonstra-yes. 10) Silvia Duran-no recollection. 11) Manuel Calvillo-no. 12) Ann Goodpasture-yes. 13 { irriNc/ apes, but can recall nothing. 14)i Win Scott-yes; Mr. Piccolo was queried whether Mr. Scott maintained $2 Cry a personal safe in Mexico City while he was Chief of Station time. Mr. Piccolo responded that restricted materials would have been kept in a safe in Mr. Scott's office. Mr. Piccolo defined restricted materials as being very sensitive; i.e., not finding its way into the routine files and indexes. Mr. Piccolo stated that he does not know who would have had access to the safe other than Mr. Scott and, further, he has no idea about what happened to it when Mr. Scott retired. 15) (Lre~ati/9 jin true name-no. 16) Larue / pe. Piccolo responded that we (meaning interviewers) knew who that was. He was asked how he knew that we knew. He stated that we
Piccolo Interview, Page 7. had read the files. He was asked how he knew that we had read the files. He stated that some of the cable traffic passed across his desk. Mr. Piccolo was next asked if he could identify the function of the CIA component known as CI He responded that it was his belief that probably CIA__/dealt with because the designation seemed to imply that it was als Intelligence Group or a Intelligence Group. At this point in the interview Mr. Piccolo was asked to examine a 5 May 1964 CIA debriefing report of A/1 reporting A/1's knowledge of | Oswald's possible contacts with the DGI. Mr. Piccolo stated that he does not recall ever seeing this report or the information contained in it. He had no recollection of Rogelio Rodriguez, Luisa Calderon, and his recollection of Manuel Vega was poor. Mr. Piccolo was next asked to examine a 7 May 1964 CIA memorandum prepared by[tiaroia sven] which elaborates on A/1's knowledge of Oswald and the JFK assassination. Mr. Piccolo stated that he had never seen this memorandum and that it did not refresh his recollection regarding Iguisa Calderon. Mr. Piccolo was then asked if A/1 had been questioned during his polygraph session in 1964 about his knowledge of Oswald. Mr. Piccolo stated he did not know that he did not see the polygraph results but does recall that two persons were present during the polygraph session. Mr. Piccolo was then asked if he could define a Black Tape 201. He stated that such a file has been retired and is black taped to hideeither an operational relationship or other sensitive matters. This file is enveloped and sealed with black tape. He indicated that a name trace should indicate if a file has been black taped. Moreover, he stated that it would be a very rare occurrence for an agent file to be maintained on
Piccolo Interview, Page 8. a soft file basis. Mr. Piccolo was next asked to examine CIA debriefing No. 65 of A/1 pertaining to the duties of D&I officers in the field regarding visa applicants. Mr. Piccolo did not recall ever reviewing this report. He indicated that the debriefing report appeared accurate. He further stated the DGI used extensive consulate cover in its operations. Mr. Piccolo stated that he believed Eusebio Azcue, form Cuban Consul in Mexico City, to have been a DGI officer. Mr. Piccolo was queried concerning his knowledge of the aiagrapa ['oR’. } Specifically, he was asked what significance the notationfzn faa when placed next to the names of DGI officers Mirabal and-Vega as occurs ina 30 April 1964 excerpt from a CIA debriefing report of A/1l. Mr. Piccolo stated that thef 2 probably stood for [zrasrcx," project designed to identify the clandestine Cuban intelligence network. Mr. Piccolo next examined a 17 July 1964 CIA contact report -#katk-ke Whee. Mr. Piccolo verified his authorship of the contact report and further stated that the Cuban defectof maitp/1 }identi tied in the report had been a Cuban G-2 agentwho had defected in 1962 or 1963. Mr. Piccolo further indicated thatthe photographs examined by A/1 ane aemvrP/ i} as reported in the contact report, probably originated with thd LIONTON surveillance ] operations. was Mr. Piccolo next/asked to detail his knowledge of Teresa Proenza Proenza. He stated that she was related. to the manager of Cubana Airlines in Mexico. He further declared that he had no knowledge that Proenza had ever been associated with the CIA | He did not know if she had been a
Piccolo Interview, Page 9.— target for recruitment by the CIA. However, Mr. Piccolo declined to discuss further Ms. Proenza's relationship with the CIA unless HSCA could demonstrate the relevancy of the questioning. Lastly, Mr. Piccolo was asked to examine CIA dispatch HMMW-11935, 1 September 1963, regarding Luisa Calderon. Mr. Piccolo indicated that the desicnation therein of SAS/EOB represented Cuban Task Force/ External Operations Branch. EOB, he stated operated outside of Cuba. Furthermore, Mr. Piccolo stated that he knew the author of the dispatch, Dave Ronis, whom he stated had retired from the CIA.