1 | go into executive session at this time for the reasons 2, the BY Ms. . 2 a} Mr, 5 oo Ms. 7 . 7 “Ms. 9} Ms. 12 Mr 13 | Ms. 16}. (Mo 7]; Ms. 18 Mr. 19 Ms. 300 7TH STREET, S.W., REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 , Mr. 21 Ms. e 22 ur. 24 Mr. 25 | Ms. Docld: 3277666585 Page 3 Clerk will call the roll: ~ Berning. Mr. Stokes. Stokes. Aye. Berning. Mr. Devine. response.) | Berning. Mr. Preyer. response.) Berning. Mr. McKinney. response.) ae “Berning. Mr. Fauntroy. . Fauntroy. Aye. Berning. Mr. Thone. © response.) 15 |. Ms. Berning. Mrs. Burke. ©. -response.) Berning. Mr. Sawyer. Sawyer. Aye. Berning. Mr. Dodd. Dodd. Aye. Berning. Mr. Ford.. Ford. Aye. Berning. Mr. Fithian. Fithian. Aye. ‘Berning. Mr. Edgar. : ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. stated.
RG: 233 . , TAB #: ENTRY: / ee ee COPIES/ PPS. /CLASS. BOX: ACCESS RESTRICTED. The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file: File Designation Date From , “e, J To ip. 3; IF -19 In the review of this file this item was removed because access to it is restricted. Restrictions on records in the National Archives are stated in general and specific record group restriction statements which are available for examination. The item identified above has been withdrawn because it contains: [ ] Security- Classified Information. [x]. Otherwise Restricted Information Pek wie hbase e SCA smn Authority | \ Date Withdrawn by NSCA’ John F, Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (P.L. 102-526) NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION NA FORM 14000 (1-86) Docld: 32: JITLON TVNVUCHIIA
me oe, | | oe SO | eG . oe og [ens this? a ae | The | ™t 20024 (202) S5H-23N5) - — - ef a ee = 10. | . Ms. Soe BO oa rn re 2 ae nn = ify. The x sees . ~ a Ms... ey ! @ = 134. (No - - . | = ts 4 . (No z 4 oS bee Al ie a ME, Cc a “I . Mr. i.e] (No (No ‘| 3NA PTW STREET, 4 Sth S Ms. @ Mr. Mr. HT Docld:32266685 Page 5 Mr. | er 1 Ms. 7 a | | Ms. 1 | two immunities. Chairman. “Any questions? . Docwei have::ai motion? Fithian. I so move, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. It has been properly moved, then, 2 | conmittes suthorize the requested 4 immunity order, clerk will call the roll. | Berning. | Mr. “Stokes. - chairman. A Aye. Berning. Mr. Devine. response.) Berning. Mr. McKinney. response. ) | Berning. Mr. Fauntroy. Pauntroy. Aye. Berning. Mr. Thone. response.) Berning. Ms. Burke. response.) perning. Mr. Sawyer. Sawyer. Aye. Berning. Mr. Dodd. Dodd. Aye. ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. “that the We may move on to something else and then come back to .
vt 7 Ms. Berning. Mr. Ford. | ; ] weiter. aye, | on Ms. Berning. Mr. Fithian. | | | ) | - . - ue. pithian. nye. | | - a | . 7 oe | 5 5 Ms. Berning. Mr. ‘Edgar. | 3 al or. ndgar. Aye: g yl Ms, perning. ¥ We will suspend | the counting of the roll Boal call: until a “subsequent time, and we wilt come back to o the Sd oo . oe i call. a : + Mr. ‘Blakey, 1 Mr. ‘chairman, “the | “next and 1 probably most important, item on the agenda is the Committee! ‘Ss “supplemental funding request. The Committee has before it a menorandun outlining the COREPORTERS BUTLOTNG, PASHTHOTON, “DLC. oO 2 | na nature of that xequest, coupled - with a number of supporting is | pages. Basically the outline is where we have ‘been and where 1s [we cas can ‘reasonably expect to, go 5 between now and December 31st. a 7 | the budget has been cut. by the staff really about as deep i : a [as we can. I think it. is fair to say that it is razor thin | : F | with the expectation that we go through December 31st continuing 5 | poth investigations, frankly, or at least keeping the options | oe a Kea | OPE to. continue them both right through December. It is | ) pe a2 ; particularly important on thecKing side. that that option be 2 kept open. I note that over the two year period what had been 25 | estimated as a $5 million - budget, would be, if this supplemental a ALSERSIN RESORT: "NG COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3272766655 Page 6 “ ° ™
; were adopted, be only 1.8 percent off the original | estimate. Ww In fact, I would commend on the record Tom Howarth for having , estimated the budget so well on all occasions. If the House 7 had given us the. money we had originally asked for, of $500, 000, de re + our whole investigation will be done and public hearings will ex Mk ras ed ey 2 pees only amount. that we | really would have been off was| the | 3 3 | value of the basic scientific projects, and that, indeed, was ' 3 aC matter brought to their attention at the. time. We didn' t : i : | inctuge it. in the original budget because ve aid not now in _— ? | Tanaary, and February exactly what those figures would be? i a | We did, Lr remember “speciticalty | Mr. “Preyer indicated to them 2 fnew would probably ‘come back for a “supplemental, on that. 7 5 12 | S0 in effect, what we are doing is coming back for a supplemental ©@ z i3 on the scientific projects, and the relatively minor cost | te | oversun which is) primarily attributable ‘to the cost of travel | = oo, : B13 | ang telephones. | x \ ; i 7 | “the Chairman, — Questions of any members? ! ay “mr. Fithian? | oo. Gf . . | 2 3 | Mx Fithian... Thank you, Mr. Chairman. i E I I would just ask that Mr. Blakey and Mr. Howarth provide | : ain us with some information as to what happens in December. I ! — © | naven't gotten all the way through the budget, but obviously | | | | be done. Wé will still have the need for staff to do the | reporting, Ctcey but. I would trust. that the phase out — 1 i 1 Mr. Blakey. In the best of all “possible worlds, which | i ALDERSOMN REPORTING COMPANT’, INC. Docld: 3272766655 Page 7
— | , OO this is not, we will end on December 31st, hand in our report, | wm [and quit. Because this is not the best of all possible worlds, — } ! | the likely result will be is that the Committee will have to go 4 aA i ! ! | back to the Congress for probably 90 days extension into the i { next Congress and Spend an.as yet undetermined amount of money , certainly a relatively small figure to maintain a skeleton d rape to process the report through - the agencies, through © : it a “oo | the ¢ Government Printing office, and, to transfer its” files Ie, ; ; 82 | : | | to wherever they will ultimately be transferred. This budget aims. to end us, at the end of this Congress when technically 1 owe a life ‘is. over “with, anyway. If, in fact, we determine in December when it will i i } 1 H i ' H : 8 time, this” is. a practice virtually universally followed by “Committees. For example, all of our bills won't come in { ce be ; a : tee owe . [in December for. the month. of December. -- there will have to . be the skeleton force around for 60 to 90 days just to process 7 i i bills, but what we are talking about is a relatively routine ! j process of cleanup in the next Congress,. certainly no hearings, ve] a GN 2 a wi = Oo ™N e rove] c i] Gil = =U x = iJ | be appropriate to. determine that there is a need for a wind-up = I = = Pa on A = ~ = a Ree _ i # | cernin no investigation after December 31st. | \ The Chairman. Mr, Fithian? 4 ‘ ‘ { 4 Ht i | . a ae . oo ae . ) yR* i Mr. Fithian. And one further question. | Sl | Might ‘it be possible to never have to go back to the a 7 24 | House for that final mopping up operation if we could get <i g - 1 | i. i | House Administration simply to take on the responsibility of | | F i: oe ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32766685 Page Hi
a WwW purely routine? © ey Mr, Blakey. No, I think what happens is that all ti payment of the remainder of the staff to finish out the. ees the House die at the end of the Congress, and | { 2 | technically every “committee around here doesn! t exist for one. ¢ | day, and then you must be. reauthorized in the new ‘Congress. = Alaa Congress: cannot - bind anything peyond the 31st. 3 ay a Mr. “Fithian. N | ba understand that. Tr. didn! t make’ my : ilaone obviously. Bey ’ The. House Aaninistration connittee sometimes: lumps in’*: Zona a. whole series ‘of “Litete incidental type expenditures, athe $ 12 . than to retain or ask that this Committee be reconstituted for @ : I | any part of the next Congress, do you follow me -- in. other ta words, whoever was” doing the mopping up’ exercises would be x i , . E 1s | employees: of . .the House Administration Committee. | 2 ey | Mr. Blakey. I suppose that could. be done. It would 4 7 | probably be just as simple to have the ‘continuing resolution’ 2 jana put us in, and having explained at the time this was z 9 | mop-up. It would be appropriate to have our life continued fo S # | te purposes so that the staff could represent the Committee a in negotiations with the agencies. That is what I think may fal 22 happen. The commitment has always been from ‘the agencies to @ final declassification. The memorandums of understanding are | ! disclose ‘the information to us subject ‘to a review before H | | between this Committee ana the Department of Justice, this Docld:32266685 Page 9
Committee and the CIA. It would be appropriate to have this. No Committee finally negotiate those. positions. Mr. Edgar. Mr. Chairman. - be The Chairman. Mr. Fdgar. an Mr. Edgar. Just a-point following up on Mr. Fithian's - comments, I would hope that some research has been done on = ~ =. . woe ~ ae. - ——— wet et exactly how to do what you are talking : about, because. if IC Go remember ‘the last ‘two: congresses, we took. the first two weeks | 20024 (202) S$u-29N5 ~t pot January off, and: the first legislative day was not until © poe, C Ne) | mid- “January at the earliest, sth, ‘lgth, 20th, ‘and there, isa | great deal of organizational work that | is “done there, and r VASHTHGTON , would “hope that we wouldn't find. ourselves ina Position where titi a we die on the 31st and. have. to ask our staff to be volunteers for a month...” as Mr. Blakey. it is unlikely that the staff would, given REPOREERS BUTEDTNG, the history of the last similar request. Nevertheless, there MM, S ‘ has to: be a resolution introduced by House Administration ‘for o all Committees, Judiciary on, and it would be appropriate to put us in there, and it would be extremely unusual for us to i 200 7TH STREET, be taken out. It:.would require a vote for us to be taken ato aa “| out. And if it is put simply as clean-up, which is what it would ae ; 4 be, I doubt that it would present an issue of controversy. 1 ' The Chairman. I think maybe what Mr. Bdgar has in mind. re r} isa pay lag system that occurs*in January. Mr. Blakey. It is only a day and every Committee suffers | SoU TIpIn i LE ST Docld: 322666685 Page 10 ALDCERSON REPORTING COMPAN', INC.
10: Ww others. ro) ‘The Chairman. Well, we would undergo a period where in | de i eee Committee would be no dfferent than any of the if _ the Democratic Caucus we go through the process of electing . 4 Chairmen of committees, eter, and so forth, and until such. time as you haveapproval of that, there are no Committees, 2nn24 (202) S54-2345) 7 1 don' t believe, in operation. os oe . Oo en Mr. lakey. = The staffs ‘continue. ‘tion year to year, though. ZS ae are paid « continuous from “year to year, | Poo. = ral tx ndgar.. Cut. the stat continues ‘because | ‘the jurisdiction = : cea for the staff, “for the Committee ‘goes from | . 2 Congress’ “to Congress. | | @ | = 3 i 7 Mr. Blakey. No. At. the beginning of each Congress | ; a | there must. be a new, in the House, a new resolution creating | me _ o. “ SO & "8 | each Committee anew, including the Judiciary Committee. It : aor The Chairman, That is the first order of business? | : 7 Mr.Blakey. Yes. | = a Mr. Howarth. Also, of course, they. have to put ina | | | 5 “emai to finance the Committees on a temporary basis, | | ca which « covers all Committees that are in existence. If you @ ye recall, the resolution continues the Committees more or less | TT at the same level of expenditure that t they had the previous | | year until the House acts on their funding resolution for the current year. So all Committees have to be extended | 4 i DERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld:32266685 Page 11 ALDSERSO! = S c
Mr. 3 “The standing =  § | way, but ~- ot os , { S 7 | happened | 2 a) xemember a # | to. about, S. ae | = tf @ = 13} | The a = ! = | a“ 7 | ~ ! 23 “ S34 —— wn } i ~ «= = 17 = c Cc 7 o Docld:32266685 Page 12 il financially. I mean, no Committee has any funds until this Chairman. As that applies | to select:. committees, i 2 | general resolution is passed. | | | | committees: I can understand. having to be funded - in that how about select committees? Howarth. Well, it is in the resolution. It has each year. That is how we had a problem, if you the first year, last, year, when | we were restricted $83, 000. I mean, at does cover. all committees. So ‘the thing is we would have to be created again” like cany” other committee, but once we ‘were created, we would come “under the general cunding resolution. Chairman. Anything further? Fauntroy? » Fauntroy.— Mr. Chairman, I am not sure that this is 1 | the point at which you would want £0. consider 5 some amendments, | | but I have now had a an. “opportunity to look over this budget | and I would agree with counsel that it is razor thin, but in that. regard, we certainly have to commend the staff for the 6 | vey tasteful. way it handled the very difficult task of reducing | staff so that we come in at this level, but I think that it ' is perhaps too razor within a budget to take forth at this time, i | | | ana particularly in ‘Light. of some of the things that I am | concerned about in the King investigation. I feel we need } a little more latitude for some contingencies, and therefore I ALDERSON REFORTING COMPANY, INC. \. 1 4 t |
| time “to add, oh, a $60, 000 contingency fund, that would bring 12 | | 1 | would simply ‘recommend and will make a motion at the appropriate I. | | pee up to $750, 000 and would afford us some latitude to carry | out what appeared to me to be potentially productive follow-u up | | | | as ! | = : | 1eads that we are now continuing to pursue. | F 7 Mr. -Blakey. “That would be very useful, Mr. Fauntroy.. | / — g 7 |) obviously what. we | don't spend we will give back. This | oe 4 lime has. a unique history of, ain fect, not spending money | ae J + | given to. to it. We turned bact $450, 000 the ‘first session, and | | Oey = jo ae there is. a ‘little flexibility | in, the. budget, that: t shouldn't oa — 1 | cause an any y trouble. . | a a i | a | 3 an Mr. Sawyer. Why not ‘make it $100,000 ‘SO we go $790, 000? 6 5 3 | I don' t Like those round figures Like $750, 000. You never etre a bills that way. 3 It always looks too arbitrary. : in — is Mr. Fauntroy. I would have no objection to that. | I : aust = 1s | that on once our ‘submission is nade, | ‘those of our detractors in | 4 7 | the pre press “will say it is more than a halt million dollar - ' : = request. . If it got up ‘to $750,000, they would say “ehree-quarters Z IF of a million. So $790,000 wouldn't make much difference. | 5 7 The Chairman. And they are probably going to cut us sone | cee! | anyway, so I think. that whatever the Committee feels is appro- | = priate ought to be entered as the budget figure. | a eS AN. so bat i) Mr. Blakey. r might add, Mr. chairman, this budget was  } not. framed with a. notion. that there was need to cut it, as ' indeed, the last budget was not framed with the notion that there I I ' H 4 | | i 4 } | i i H Docld: 32266685 Pave 13 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
13 . : . | )-Was room to cut it. si ! _ The Chairman. As: I say, with the realization that this. is 4 i i ia 2 | a barebones budget, your figure of $690, 000, I think Mr. Fauntzoy_ pe right. ; and ‘Mr. Sawyer, | we ought to have some: . Leeway for ee ! i oe : F 5 | sone contingencies. — | | | | ~ a 2 a Mr. ‘Pauntroy. If it is therefore appropriate, Mr. chain, a 5 aes will move that we add the contingency item of. $100,000 to i a g 2 | the b budget proposed by. state. Se an ; rae ae S. 2 The Chairman, ‘You are ce talking al about a ‘total figure of Ag ee dp ees . Oe | oo — ge 10 i $790, 00027 a : ms oe a, oe ne as 4 - 7 . 2 eoune 000. | | | | @ 7 5. ‘3 1 The Chaizman. Is there any discussion? | = in | Lf not, then the Clerk will call the roll. a 4 | | Mr. Fora). this is on the $790,000? te is on the | | - = is | $790,000 rather than the additional? Se | a . an ~ a | ‘ a . The Chairman. The motion is for a total figure of | : | $790,000 for the submission of the budget. z 7 Ms. Berning. Mr. Stokes. - - : : 5 mh. The ‘Chairman. Aye. | . a Ms. Berning. Mr. Devine. «=. | @ | rand = | (No response.) : 3 Mr, Berning. Mr. Preyer. | 2 | (No response.) | a Ms. Berning. Mr. McKinney. | Docld: 32266685 Page 14 ao ALODERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
(No [ony Ms. da _ (No ae | 2002" (202) S54-29N5 D.C. "(No HASHTHGTON , ! | ! @ 23: 7. = j = 4, ! “ i mo a +2 o z 8! Ms. a | _ a 5 e OIF Mr. a The “= | previous Ww in The Docld: 322766635 Paye 15 (No- Ms. Sawyer. Aye... Ms’. Berning. Mr. Dodd: response.) _ Ford. Pass. Fithian. Aye. Berning. Mr. Edgar. uj appropriate to take that vote over. } | 23 will call the roll. $ 14 response.) Berning. Mr. Fauntroy. - oo Fauntroy. Aye. | Berning, Mr. Thone. response. ) Berning. ‘Mrs. Burke. response.) Berning. : Mr. Sawyer. | Berning. Mr. Ford. Berning. Mr. Fithian. Edgar. No. Berning. Four yeas, one no, and one pass. Blakey. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest it might be Chairman. All right, then without objection, the vote will be expunged from the record, and the- clerk Berning. Mr. Stokes. Chairman, Aye. ALDERSON REFSCRTING COMPANY, INC.
de wo in ta . Lom 2026 (202) S5u-29N5 pD Se, WASHINGTON , to SY. REFORTERS BUTLDTNG, Oo.” 300 7TH STREET, i { sat ie Mt eo os Sf Af Js n t nd e. a in Ms.. (No Se, ~ (No Ms. (No Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Mr. Ms. Mr. Ms. Mr. Ms. Mr. Mr. Ms. The Mr. 15 Berning. Mr. Devine. response.) Berning. ‘Mr. Preyer. response.) Berning. Mr. McKinney. response.) Berning. Mr, Fauntroy. Fauntroy. Aye. © Berning. Mr... Thone. Berning. Mrs. Burke. response.) Berning. Mr. Sawyer. Sawyer. Aye. | Berning. Mr.Dodd. Dodd. Aye. ©. Berning. Mr. Ford. Ford. Pass. Berning. Mr. Fithian. Fithian. Aye.. Berning. . Mr.. Edgar. Edgar. No. Berning. Five ayes, one no, and one pass. Chairman. What is the parliamentary situation? Blakey. That is sufficient, Mr. Chairman. ALDERSON RESCRTING COMPANY, INC.)
and then you people can work among yourselves | to make sure | 16 ‘ \ a - Now, ‘we have’ one vote in process waiting for 7 | 2 | ‘The Chairman. On: this, also? _ | | 3 | Me. Blakey. I am sory. It would be appropriate £6 : @ 7 wo | state that . the: resolution passes; _ Oo oe of. Es § : a The Chairman. AlL right, then,. five members having voted | & / a) | ‘in. the affirmative, the resolution is adopted. E- 7 = Professor Blakey? = 8 pe Mrs. ‘Blakey. - Mes ‘chairman, we have one vote in "process oo 9. | awaiting the arrival of Me, ‘Preyer's proxy. In that interin 3 ‘10 i it might be appropriate for me to note ‘for the benefit of 2 ay | the Connittes several itens, ‘one, Charlie Mathews will be ‘by a. = ia : to see each of the members individually to. discuss the questio ¢ @ a i3 of specialization for the upcoming King and Kennedy hearings. = 8 in The “heazings have been outlined by subject matter. I made. an | 5 is : effort myself to ‘specialize people and. I found» it just simply . = i3 wasn't appropriate for me to do it without getting your judg- i a 7 | me ments first about the izcas wnene y you | would like to ‘Epecialied, 2 18 and with a clear idea @ when that material may come up in the | a = 19 | hearings. | | - | < s i | By the end of this week or certainly the middle of next, SES o Mr. Mathews will certainly be around for you md he will ask , | @ aw a2 Vy you to set. out your preferences one through 17. I will _come | | 23 1b back and shuffle them to try to maximize your preferences, and ! 24 then come back to you with a tentative list. of specialization, : : 1 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 3272766685 Page 17
_.20 States DistrictJudge | in the Southern District. We would be 20 facing a situation where the Attorney General might well be hela 3 in contempt, ‘this time in contempt of Congress as opposed to contempt @ 4 | of court: in: the Southern District. 2 > The. Chairman. I see. | a 6 a ' Mr: Blakey. It would be a very. interesting contempt. We & 7 | would have | one or two. choices. We could either 3 recommend to Aim . 5 8 that 1 he: prosecute himsel£ for contempt, Or. that, he appoint a. . a ae 9 special prosecutor to prosecute him for contempt, or “that we 3 10. bring him before the bar of ‘the House ‘for a “hearing « on ‘contempt. P E : Wp I ‘add, at. this point, that ‘this suggestion is no malicious: | g 12 | on my part, as much as I have indicated on the record that I a re : y 5 13 i would Like to see ‘this Committee have an inherent contempt, this ; 7 & 14 isn't one being pressed by me for personal ‘reasons. & 15 Mr. Ford. Mr. Chairman, while we are waiting, while + we 3g - 16. are, waiting I would like to know if. it ‘vould 1 be. all right for: | a 7 this Committee to move in.a “girectibn ¢ where | starting Monday o 2 18 night with the briefing of the full Committee and the Committee : 19 members, that we would be able to bring at \least one of our | 20 _ people, a staff person connected with our office, inasmuch as 2) we are moving into the August, you know, the public hearings, @ 72 if we are going to do that, I personally would like to have a 23 staff person that I could work constantly with, you know, here> 24 in Washington while I'm back home..in the district. 25 Mr. Blakey. There would be two elements, Mr. Ford, inasmych QS . ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3272766655 Page 16
ne 2 @ ; 19 5 =~ - aq + . a 5 7 2.8 ag 9. So oD oqy. aN Bo y 12 eo " oo Mio. . mM 2 14 i> w © 15 fc  & 7 3g 6 : a : ; f 17 G] jew] 618 = = = 49 oO ise] 20 21 93 24 25 | 21 as we talk about the hearings and theplans to use unclassified . material, there would be no problem with the staff person being © present. If we wanted to summarize the investigations as they actually are in both King and Kennedy, and we got into classified material,. the stafé person would not be permitted to ‘| be présent.. Mr. Ford. Well, we could ask him m to leave, but I think fate some point we. > ought to. bring them — in. now... For my sake, you | now, zt “need a state person working with | us “to. be briefed on certain issues “and ‘certain things that, are going to be brought out. If it. is all right with the chiet Counsel along with the. a Chairman, I would dike to see us next week some time to have the permission to bring staff people in... Mr. Blakey. Except for one area, apart from-the classified question, which we could reveal, except for one area on King, “at might be appropriate. T would be most. reluctant, to, at the I delicate. current. stage of: the: “investigation | ‘on the King side, — to increase the number of staff people aware of that investigation For example, the entire Committee staff will not be there, the entire Committee staff has not been made aware of, indeed, the entire King staff has not been made aware of our pursuit of certain conspiracy allegations. We have not had a leak up until this point.. Mr. Ford. I don't see any problem with that. We can tell the staff, you know, when they have to step out, you know, or ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3277666585 Page 19 N
22 ] certain information they are not privy of or what have you. 2 ~The Chairman. I think Mx. Fithian is'seeking recognition. | 3) Mr... Fithian. “Thank you, . Mr. Chairman. @ —_ 4 7 - I just want to strongly support Mr. Ford, and I want to say 5 this. It seems to me as we prepare, Mr Blakey, for the public. 6 hearings, ‘that Segregation of material of that which. can and 7 that which cannot be made public is incumbent upon you and the (a | state i in any, event. that has to be carefully done and done in. a 9 ‘timely. fashion, and all I would want, quite: honestly, and 10 | obviousty, for my staff getzon | is to work — to help me coordinate ‘lif ana prepare for the public hearing, mé. ‘therefore, as we go 12 along, you will have to segregate the information and the material, 13 in any event, and as you segregate by section, by Parts of inquiries, 14 by parts of £ the investigation, it seems ‘to me that we could have | 15 our staff or permit | our staff to have access to that which is 16 | no doubt going to be used - in the public hearing. . 7 oe “And I am only concerned about the public hearing at this. “point. - 18 | All of us have carried the classified section ourselves on the 19 | Committee. I am only concerned about the public hearing anyway. 300 7TH STREET, S.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 “Mr. Blakey. Insofar as we talk about the hearings, there 21 is no woblem. Insofar. as we talk about the full investigation, e@ 22 | the personal staff people would | probably | have to be on a revolving 23 door; in and out, in and out, and what I am questioning here is 24 thesutility for them coming and asking them to leave over major _ 25 portions of the briefing. It might be. more appropriate to pring -ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. | Docld: 3277666585 Page 70
23 1 the ‘staff people in when we focus squarely on the hearings, as. 2 : indeed we. will, as soon. as. specialization - is fully completed. 9 7 . — Fithian. So you are saying that this Monday. night @ : 4 session might not be the best ‘session. | | 5 | —_ Mr. Blakey. Tt might not be the best time to begin, 6 - Mr. Fithian. Iam not, quarreling with that, but I just want 7 | to Join in on saying I want to move a staff person in soon. I -(g |-.don' t want it to. be two ) days before we begin public hearings. 9 Mr. Dodd. Will the gentleman yield on that point? _ “10. Po Tr “would, Mr. Chaimman, Like to. support, what Harold is oe 41 | suggesting » here, and I. think informally we have all discussed with \ 12 each other here the necessity to. have some sort of help, particulaily 13 | during the public hearing proce; (SS. I think most of us | had a 14 | staff person. assigned in our own offices. some time ago to this 15 area, and then in my ‘own case, that staff person has left 1 my 6 i employment, and I don t even “khow what. they are doing, but I think - ay “in: the case of everyone else, mean, “they haven' ‘t done anything, 18 | you know, for a long time because of the nature of our hearings. 19 I was curious myself about trying to bring someone on to 300 7TH STREET, S.W., REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345. 20 | work with me over the next three or four months, and it raised 21 through the Committee, the staff; the possibility of going back ~ ® | 22 | and maybe getting some of those people that we no longer have 23 with us. I realize there are particular special problems involved 24 | with that, issues that Mr. Blakey raised that I think are entirely 25 legitimate. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 327766685 Page 71 ;
ww ° 45 t+ oD . a. s 6 w- . a a 7 a s 8 Ao go oe 5. 10. = Q V1. 2 | g 12 3 @.° 2 14. & a1 . 2 15 ic} [nat 2 16 wn 5 17 ie) [a] h 618 x ze > 19 3 20 2) oe ”* | 23 24 | 25 Docld: 322766635 ‘be able to have someone work with me, if there is a possibility of getting someone from the Committee, that the Committee is aware of, _ that would be a good person to have, that - they may have dealt with or someone they would have brought on or - didn! t because they what wasn't, “and we have to provide. not to be hit with it. that are being Placed on us as individuals during that time period. 24 I would like to add as a request here, since I would like to reached a level they couldn't bring anyone else on, and I just — would like to be able to have someone, and I don't know what pool | of resources” to. go. to to get someone who would have a. ‘good | working “knowledge of the thing. before we. begin. ‘But. I would Like to endorse Harold! s “concept. I think we | are absolutely ‘going to have to: have it. Mr. Blakey. One of the things that is ‘going to | happen or is happening is that senior staff counsel are being assigned precisely the “areas in which each of you will be specializing, and you will be directly, personally briefed by the senior staff : people. | | | | | | Mr. Dodd. It gets more complicated than that, Bob. We are going to have, you know, we are going to have our own local press in addition to what goes on here, and calls coming into the office, and what are you doing, and we as individual members have to do all of that in terms of what was actually said and I think we are being awfully shortsighted - in terms of the demands And I think as much knowledge as these people are going to ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 22
rs) 5 x : ON “B 6 Ww: : a 8 7 x A 9 ge. re | q 11 3B Z 12 . if Fs 14 a 2 5. <7 at mh «18 E 5 19 3 20 21 e ” 93 24 25 Docld: 32266665 outlined I think is really something’ at this point. I think we are. probably going to have to have, and I would ‘support Harold's with the committee coming up with someone who could be helpful to during | these briefing sessions, you. are “talking about having ‘| areas of specificity where we are. going to be working, to have | outlined August and Septenber, into 1 17 “subject, matters, covering - hearings. They have been assigned to senior staff people to _ eross examination is appropriate, what it should sound like, ‘the 25 have without encroaching on the very sensitive areas you have . idear and I would add only to that that I would like | some personal, me personally that ‘T would put on my own payroll during this period. _ ‘The Chaiiman. t see no problem in working. that out. - Mrs Doda. ‘tT have a request, Mr. “Chairman. ibw about "informal briefing sessions "beginning « on “Monday, or at least having one on. Nonéay ‘about where things” are. “What about as we eventually pull the thing together, where we have gotten the sort of cell. meetings with that staff person from that committee? Mr. Blakey. Let: me outline what will happen. We have — the entire Kennedy hearings and the first phase of the King | outline in detail. Those outlines will include the suggested text of the narration, the suggested witness lists, ma the questions to be asked of the witness, our recommendation as to whether cross examination would be appropriate of» that. witness, and if specialization of atl least two members of Congress on that witness) what. areas ‘those ‘two members of Congress might want to raise with ~ ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 23 ,
“26 od _ this witness, all of the exhibits and denonstrable evidence. that | 2 | might be introduced on. that cay When all of that is outlined | 3°) ana the backup material that supports it is put together and @ a 4 the ‘specialization has been cranked into ‘it, a senior. stafé person ) will come and work with the Congressman or the Congressman and 6 his staff in that area. 7 . The books will be prepared on each of the areas so that it - 8. will be possible for any ‘member of Congress 0 come and read 9 | directly through all .the books, . in. effect; “preview ‘the. entire a 10> “set of hearings. once, it. gets: outlined with that ‘kind of ce speitty, Wd at will. then ‘be , possible for: ‘the entire. Committee to sit in: a 12 strategy session on exactly what the hearings look like , what “13 questions should be asked, what questions should be done on 14 | certain days. By specializing like that, it should be . possible 15 for a menber of Congress to. choose not to be present on a certain, 16 day because he knows, what is coming up and | probably in: the context 17 of the hearings, not necessarily missed, because major ‘roles will 18 || be played by different people on different days, although sme time 19 will be reserved for, probably under the five minute rule, for 300 7TH STREET, S.W. ; REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 | each member to ask any questions any day. 21 Well, I am sure you can remember in the hearing involving r ) 22 Mr. Nosenko, how frustrating and ineffectual questioning of a 23 | significant witness is under the five minute rule. You get your 24 first question in and it goes on to the next person. The defector 25 | really was wiped out by direct and cross examination and then ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3277666585 Page 24 ,
‘27 on totally regained his posture and composure, and 1d frankly began 4 to give the top level, he gained the upper hand in dealing with’ 3 the Committee because he. talked all the time and the. Committee only : @ kh talked five minutes.” 5 So that if we can avoid that kind of situation in our hearings, 6 || we would be much better off. 7 Mr. Chairman, it might be appropriate at this time. to 8: - resume the roll call on the. inmunity question. - 9 oe The Chairman. — ‘The. clerk will inform. Mr. “McKinney at. this . 10. time: of. the motion. a Ms. ‘Berning. ‘There is a ‘resolution to ‘confer the immunity -12 | that you have before you. Mr. Fithian made the motion. We have 13 | a vote. 300 7TH STREET, $.W., REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345. . 14 "Have you had a chance to Look at it? 45 a Mr. McKinney. Yes. “16 : The ‘chaisman. Al All right, continue the count.” 17 . Ms. Berning. Mr. McKinney. Aye: - 18 Ms. Berning. And Mr. Preyer. 19 (No response.) | 20 Ms. Berning. Eight ayes, Mr. Chairman. 2) | The“ Chairman. All right. Right members “having voted in the @ 22 || affirmative, the immunity order is granted. ; 23 ‘Mr. Blakey. There is nothing else to bring before the 24 | Committee at this time, Mr. Chairman. 25 Mr. Dodd. You will let us know about the meeting on Monday ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3272766685 Page 25 .
13 18 19 300 7TH STREET, $.W., REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 21 23 24 25 14 15 16 28 night. Mr. Blakey. ves. - The Chairman. All right, if there is nothing further to come before the Committee at this time, the Chair will adjourn the. meeting subject to the call of the Chair. | (Whereupon, at 11:35 | o'clock a.m., the Committee recessed. subject. to the call of the Chair.) ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3272766655 Page 276