the KGB known to me. | "I was in prison for the whole five years, and I started | | | se ~~. “ H my life in the USA in April of 1969." da tn What is that? What does that mean. | | 7 Mr. Helms. There was a word you used there, "analogical." Mr. Goldsmith. I am only reading:to you what the text mo term as itis used here. Se) 7 says. I am afraid I cannot give you a clear defintion of that | Mr. Craig. Could you reread the sentence that that term appears: in? locations) were analogical." If you would like to examine | Co . ; | Mr. Goldsmith. "Conditions in both (first and second | the statement -- tre _~ ~~ fe | | | | \ | | Mr. Helms. No. I just do not understand what he meant | | | | | | | | { | | 1S by analogical. 16 | Mr. Goldsmith. Would you agree with Mr. Nosenko's 17 | characterization of: the conditions in which he was placed or j-" 13 | held in solitary confinement? 19 | Mr. Helms. I have no means for agreeing or disagreeing. | 20 | I did not visit him during the time that he was being held. 21 | Mr. Goldsmith. Is the statement consistent with reports @ . ry] that you received concerning Mr. Nosenko's treatment? - | "3 : Mr. Helms. I would think -so, yes.. I remember that 24 : I had two matters of particular interest in connection of this ! ae f Whole business. One that he should not be physically molested. | ' ' t t i | | i Docld:32263410 Page 122 TAD eCrpprr .
n> 5 un @ “oO vote. forbade it. I wanted to be absolutely certain that that was clear to everybody, and I believe that was complied with throughout. Secondly, I did not want any drugs or any medicines or Mr. Goldsmith. ie ro I think this may be the last one for some time. The Committee any tricks of that kind used on him. That was my next question. 6 | ever given any crugs for the purpose of either harrassing him psychologically or to compel him to tell the truth? believe not. I believe that, I was asked whether this could be done and so forth, and I will stand in recess. (A brief recess was taken.) Mr. Preyer. The Committee will resume. Mr. Goldsmith? Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Ambassador, Thank you. 20 another regarding Mr. Nosenko's bona fides? Docld: 32263410 bage 123 Mr. Helmsi =! Mr.- Goldsmith. Was Nosenko at one time, | Mr. Preyer. | Mr. Goldsmith, I. regret that there is another | I believe earlier you testified the 19 | Agency did not establish or have any position one way or. Despite these efforts we have made. That was precisely the point I was about TAD QEPSIT to make, or the impression I was going to raise to you. It would.seem then that; the Agency, without having any position ae , OMe way or the other, went to the trouble to keep Mr. Nosenko
a 14 | ac rd Docld: 322763410 ivr Qebae i i | 1-123 | under the conditions that he just described. | Mr. Helms. We did our very best to resolve this problem } and we certainly would not have taken these steps of putting | him, if you recall, in spartan circumstances, if we had not thought there was a possiblity it might get us to a goal that we were trying to reach. ‘I do not think that we were trying to reach. I do not think that we ever under-estimated the ‘impor- tance of this case, and we did everything we could do to try. i to resolve that, including later on giving him sweet, nice treatment with’ money and pleasant living circumstances iand all il of the rest-.of it. | Mr. Goldsmith. Does not the fact that Mr. Nosenko was i a a ne enn acetate kept under these conditions reflect that the Agency, in fact, did have a position regarding his bona fides, and at least until such time that he was released from these conditions, the Agency felt that he was not a bona fide defector? 7 Mr. Helms. I think the Agency was trying to establish whether or not he was a bona fide defector and it was decided to use these means of interrogation. The supposition has to be that the matter had not been resolved by other interroga- tion means and this was going to be trying an effort, to see ifsthis would help. a | | Mr. Goldsmith. So that, for the three years Mr. Nosenko wees eee ee ee 1 was kept under these conditions, the Agency did not have a b= a age 124 TAD QCPOCT ' ace rn ro ce ee epee nce nee ne enn eee ene se ty a a ern rr a ana | '
in ~“S a@ 4 DoclId: 322763410 1UP Scunci position regarding his bona fides? | | Mr. Helms. They were trying to establish his bona fides. Mr. Goldsmith. Your answer is, then, during those three |, yearns, the Agency did not have a position regarding his bona | fides. | | | Mr..Helms. There may have been differing views, depending | on whether this view obtained or that view obtained. pisserent, people may have altered their position, but the Agency aid notal have any position during this period. As I was saying, we were trying to resolve the issue. Mr. Goldsmith. You would say that this was a technique Mr. Helms. That is exactly what I am saying. ! | ! | | | in attempting to resolve the overall issue of bona fides? | | : ; { Mr. Goldsmith. Later, when Mr. Nosenko was given -- and | | I think the record would demonstrate that, or corroborate that +~ i | 4 was given approximately $80,000 after taxes and was allowed to work for the Agency on a contract basis or asa consultGnt |" ° do those factors reflect on the part. of the Agency the position | that, by this time, Nosenko was considered to be a bona fide ! defector? | | | Mr. Helms. I do not want to take any position or voice | any opinion about anything that happened in the Agency after | February, 1973 when I left. a | | Mr. Goldsmith. In light of that, if the Committee is able | to. demonstrate to you from the record that these actions | i | | | ! age 125 TAD ClPotT
an DoclId: 322763410 concerning Nosenko were taken prior to your departure as | DCI, would you then be willing to respond to the question? | Mr. Helms. No... | . ! Mr. Goldsmith. Even -- | Mr. Helms. — I. did not know that he was a consultant at the | Agency or considered a consultant of the Agency. If, indeed | Be was, I would like the word defined as to what that entails | and what that was supposed to signify. | os . | Mr. Goldsmith. You did not know that Mr. Nosenko was | | given approximately $80,000? | — | | Mr. Helms. You said $8,000 and $80,000:ion another. Which | is the correct figure? | Mr. .Goldsmith. I am sorry if I gave you an incorrect | figure. It is $80,000, | Would the fact that he had been given $80,000 afte rtaxes : suggest to you that the Agency did have a position regarding | his bona fides? | Mr. Helms. I think that we were trying to resettle him. | I think that we recognized that he had been given a pretty | rough time, and I think: that we were trying, through good | treatment and handling him properly and so forth, to not only jj resettle him, but find out if these means would help resolve | the case. | If it has been resolved in the last five years, I am glad I : | ’ to hear it. I know nothing about that. Page 126 TRE Crraer . ‘ : ' :
WN o> aa ant @ r 22 33 24 ae as DoclId: 322763410 | -his story. bage 127 TAD CEPDIT tt; categorically, including that. tur Seva i ae iw i. Mr. Goldsmith. How would giving him $80,000 and resettling him further resolve the case? It would seem by that point that the case has been resolved, to the best of the “™_— Agency's capabilities. Certainly after you have given him $80,000 you are not providing him with any incentive to change Mr, Helms. What would you have done with him? Mr. Goldsmith. I would like you to answer my questions. Mr. Helms. I think this line as inguiry has been taken as far as I can take it. Mr. Goldsmith. You are unable to comment, then, on the Significance ~- Mr. Helms. I am unable to comment. I am trying to say we were trying to resettle him. Mr. Goldsmith. Earlier, I asked you whether Nosenko had ever. been given any drugs for the purpose of harrassing him psychologically or for the purpose of compelling him to tell the truth. _ Are you able to state categorically that he was not given drugs for this purpose? Mr. Helms. I would never state anything in this life Mr. Goldsmith. What is. the best statement you can give us. on that? Mr. Helms. The best statement I can give you on that is 1 i