457-10011-10026 AGENCY:  SSCIA RECORD NUMBER:  157-10011-10026 RECORD SERIES: TRANSCRIPT AGENCY FILENUMBER: _ R-173 Document Information ORIGINATOR: SSCIA FROM: TO: TITLE: | TESTIMONY OF COLBY, WILLIAM E. DATE: 06/04/1975 PAGES: 109 SUBJECTS : ASSASSINATIONS CASTRO COLBY, WILLIAM E. WIRETAPS | MAFIA OPERATION MONGOOSE: CUBAN OPERATION | DOCUMENT TYPE: PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT CLASSIFICATION: Unclassified | RESTRICTIONS: 1A;1B CURRENT STATUS:  Redact DATE OF LASTREVIEW: 05/29/1996 OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS: — SSCI Box 239, Folder 16 v9.1 JFK Assassination System Identification Form Agency Information HY 50955 DBocld:322703794 Page i Date: 7/30/201
HY 0955 Doctld: 32203794 | Unauthorizee Dis | 0 Crimina? Che United States Senate 3 OF 6 ; . 'NVENTORIED; . Report of Proceedings —2faafo7 "Be INVENTORIED: Hearing held before ry Sil) . aa a Ry > : Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations ee With Respect to Intelligence Activities - COMMITTEE MEETING ee ~ Record Number 157-10011-10026 ~ SSCT Box 239, Folder 16 Wednesday, June 4, 1975 Washington, D.C. (Stenotype Tape and Waste turned over to the Committee for destruction) WARD & PAUL 410 FIRST STREET, S. E. WASHINGTON, D. C. 20003 (202) 544-6000 a ee we OS pos Page 2?
‘Phone (Area 202} 544-6000 no 10 il 12 13 14 WARD & PAUL 15 16 1? 18 19 20 el ke 25 24 810 Flest Street, S-E.; Washington, O.C. 20003 295 persons who wanted the weapons had stated that the object of cb-; Or Sec i 65 inga special group meeting. And it was left that that was on the record vague. After the special group meeting, did the CIA. station in Santo Domingo push further for the delivery of weapon as a gesture of U.S. support of dissidents? Mr. Colby. Yes, there was considerable discussion with a dissident group down there. And the question -~ they made cs 7, eee a particularpoint out of needing some warrant of our serious interest in supporting it. And the station was urging that this be done through the provision of some weapons. Mr. Schwarz. And did the station indicate that the taining this kind of help is the elimination of Trujillo? Mr. Colby. Yes. And two of the individuals on the 15th of February said that the object. was the elimination of - | Trujillo. Instead of using arms or grenades,he began to speak of.a bomb and of poisoning. Senator Baker. .. That is quoting the man requesting it? Mr. Colby. Yes, the requestor. He also described a possible ambush. Mr. Schwarz. Now, who was the chief of station in Santo Domingo in 1961? LAD | Mr. Schwarz. Did the Chief of Station on March 17, 1961 Mr. Colby ggLcayil cable the CIA headquarters reiterating his suggestion to send in diplomatic pouches one small sized high-fire power weapon, because Mr., Des, AW 50955 Doc&ld: 32203794 Page 3
Phone (Area 202) 544-G000 WARD & PAUL ‘410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 HW 450955 LO LL 12 13 L4 15 16 17 IP seed 63 Mr. Schwarz. And the CIA headquarters told him that no authorization exists to suspend the pouching regulations | | { | | i against shipment of articles on March 20, 1961, is that right? Mr. Colby. Right. Mr. Schwarz. Did the Chief of Station reply on March 22 | | that "he knew that at last two posts received pistols by a pouch | for worthy purposes"? Mr. Colby. Yes. I think we are talking about pouch as a term of art here. I think there are obviously ways to ship weapons to an embassy, we need them for our Marine guards among other things. And I think the question here was whether they would use the diplomatic pouch in concealing the fact that they were weapons, and that there was no opposition for that. | Mr. Schwarz. And there were some regulations against using the diplomatic pouch for that purpose? : Mx. Colby. The standing regulation does say, you shall | not ship firearms in pouches. | Mr .Schwarz., What had been the two posts that {Se (A) had prior to Santa Domingo? | Mr. Breckinridge. Mr. Schwarz told me thisnorning to find y DocTd: 32203794 Page 4 : . - av
: : TOP De0RET 69 | (Ad : stated to headquarters that in Mr. Schwarz. response to their comment that you shouldn't send weapons through the diplomatic pouch, he had at his last two posts, AI ) Phone (Area 202} 544-6000 © as) HI 5 received pistols through the 6 ‘diplomatic pouch for "worthy purposes." | 9 What were those purposes? | 8 | Mr. Colby. I don't know. . | | 9 Mr. Breckinridge. We don't know. 10 Mr. Colby. I might add one comment here, that head- i } 11 | quarters cabled to station on the 20th of March "Regret ne author- 12 || ization exists to suspend pouch regulations against shipment 13 of articles". WARD & PAUL 14 Now, the way many of these messages leave our heaquarters 15 | is that they are signed off at the division level. And that 16 || could have reflected the division's communicating with the 17 Station, saying, I haven't gotten an exception from our be granted further up in the approval chain, but that as of this 1g | normal rules for you yet, really, that the exception might ” -19 & 20 day, in response to the station's cable, they had not gotten the QO ra ; 8 21 exception. E 22 In other words, if we had a good reason to send weapons a . . wera . ~ . 4 23 to a certain station, I am sure we could find a way to do it a] H 3 2A | today. ; | | @D - 25 Mr. Schwarz. Can you find out what the “worthy purposes" | . .t 1 | «FOR SICRaT J HW 50955 Docld: 32203794 Page 5.
TOP SECRET = 1 |) were pursuant to which ico, needed those pistols? pete : A (Ad p yes. 3 | | Me Schwarz. Is the reference to W.H. in the March 22 cab! 2 - Mr. Colby. We can ask [I Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 4 cable, which states "WH not prepared take this step" -~ and the 5 || step being shipment of weapons through the pouch ~- to the 6 || White House, or to the CIA's WH Division? ” Mr. Colby. That is the division I am on. 8 Senator Baker. Mr. Chairman. end nash 9 mhl fols 10 Li | 12 13 WARD & PAUL, L4 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 t/A id @) nd exis] | TOP HW 50955 Docld:32203794. Page 6_
£ls nash 3 1 Bs @ g 3 é 4 5 6 ” 8 9 10 qi , 12 2 ; Ay eh 13 Ga . & : 3 14 15 16 17 18 mn 19 2 g 3 20 Q 8 21 3 22 if 23 a e « < 25 1 TOP SECRET | whe’ Chairman. Senator Baker. Senator Baker. As the birector knows, this caused us great grief at one time. Yc. Colby. We have charged the name of that since, Senator. | Senator Baker. Coulda you, for the sake and the gratifi- . cation of my longstanding concern in that respect, supply for the record a further identification for that as Western Hemisphere instead of White House? Mr. Colby. I want to make sure that this is what this says. This is a reply from the station. And it sounds to me cr like in this case that he really means Western Nemisohere Division. Senator Baker. Is there some way we can determines whether he is talking about White House or Western Hemisphere? Mr. Colby. This supports my previous comment about the level of approval and authorization. In other words, the Chief of Station formally deals with his division. He thinks of his division as his headquarters, the chain of command for him, with the realization that there are levels of approval above the division which can get exemption to certain regula- tions if it were appropriate. And from my reading of many 1p} cables over the years, I can smell this one pretty clearly a a communication between station and division, ta Western Hemisphere Division. We can check with HW 50955 / DocId: 32203794 Page. 7.
2 | iw P SfaLheT | 92 i 1 it comes out pretty clearly. 2 - Senator Tower. still employed by the Agency? AT Mr. Colby. Yes. ow Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 Gt 4 , Mr. .Schwarz. Following the initial turndown of delivery 5 by the pouch, did the Agency in fact ship the revolvers some- 6 time after March 25th and were authorized by Mr. Bissell to do | - | 7 So? 8 Mr. Colby. I don't think we shipped the revolvers. What 9 we shipped ; were carbines. | : oe . . . 10 Mr. Breckinridge. I think that we shipped scme sub- : 1 11 machine guns. . i , 12 - Mr. Schwarz. If you look at the record for March 25, “4 13 1961, it states in a cable authorized by Mr. Bissell, "Ye  Y be trujitio wane, wo wisn to : 14 support a program to replace the Trujillo regime. We wish to | 15 avoid precipitated action if planning is not well organized, 16 as appears to be the case. Mchine guns and ammunition will be | . i 17 supplied to demonstrate good will.to the dissidents who | 18 requested revolvers and are being pouched." . 19 Mr. Colby. But I think elsewhere in the record it is 5 20 indicated that we could -- look back on page 39 -- we find 6 21 notations that the revolvers were actually pouched. We are | 2 g § | 3 202 just not very clear on that. a 23 Mr. Schwarz. The first instance where this document = 24 admits that weapons were in fact sent and delivered is under -: . 2 | 2 . Ne : : ' 3 25 the heading "March 26, 1961." And it refers to three . S See ° eg gk Ee i HW 409455 Doctld: 32203794 Page @
4 Ur SeuKel 74 g ‘ , 3 1 Then in March the approval of the passage, I think, $ ; . | @: 2 without any substantial difference in policy, expressed in the | A : : < 5 interim. Probably that is a formal approval. It would be é 4 considered adequate for the actual passage in March. Now, I | 5 imagine, however, that there was a certain amount of pre- | | 6 exchange of information with the Embassy in Dominican Resublic: | . | 7 and also with the State Department here. 8 Mr. Schwarz. On March 31, 1961 the actual passing of * ° s } 9 | the carbines was approved in a cable released by Mr. Bissell, | : 2 4 ; 10 is that right? i Ll Mr. Colby. It was approved, yes, in a cable 31 March. Mr. Schwarz. And Mr. Bissell released the cable, is that , 12 SS) | a . | — 13 right? 1 @: | ~ $ 14 Mr. Colby. Yes. | _ | 15 Mr. Schwarz. The Chief of Station, KG see DB 16 to ask for more weapons through the pouch. 17 - Mr. Colby. Right. | 18 Mr. Schwarz. And there is an indication that some - t 19 approval of pouching more weapons Was granted by Headquarters | nd : 3 20 in April 1961, is that right, April 12, 1961? | ¢ & 21 Mr. Breckinridge. They sent more guns, but never did 5 . 3 20 have authority to release guns. | rf “ 23 Mr. Colby. They did approve the shipment of submachine | & 24 guns, but these were never -- the Station was never authorized = 25 to release those to the dissidents. HW 50955 Docld: 32203794 Page 93
, . 8: , . 8 1 a Ps Ep a 5 3 4 5 6 7 (blank) & 9 10 11 ; 12 3 A Fy 13 @: . o 3 14 15) 16 17 18 n 19 g 3 20 } Ss 21 3 22 = 23 z z 24 hae @: © 25 7 Wr SELKE! 103 The Chairman. From the State Department to the Charade, on what we have speculated must be the instructions of the President. And that remains to be determined positively. Now, two days later we get this cable from the Chief of Station to the CIA. And those words are aquoted in the record: "Assume the 29 May policy cable form State to Dearborn is final word on present policy on which CIA be based. This for practical purposes retreats. from-previous policy. Uowever, Headquarters is aware extent to which US Government already associates with an assassination. Tf we are to at least try to cover up tracks, CIA personnel directly involved in an assassination preparation must be withdrawn now. If an assassination tried and not successful, But I really believe that some very serious questions 4 are left unanswered by this record. sy = fee Senator Mathias. Mr. Chairman, I might recall th Shakespeare anticipated this situation when he said, when you strike a king you must kill him. Mr. Colby. There was also @ companion ‘cable from the Charge to the Department making moreorless the same problem, : ubs! £ of US involvement in these b a o cr ct aed @ Nh 0) 1 (a mw _ ct io ae ch t ab ie i 'S ny ce) @) RA ome pos be matters. That cahle was dated on 31 May. It was actuaily NW 50955 DocId: 32203794 Page 10 , Ate) Now, we must have the full cables of ccurse in this case | ete gy ane ree emcee teatime emotes te fate aes ete