173 CONFIDENTIAL to pass the polygraph prior to December 10, the issue was a investigation? | | | | | still a live one at the time you became involved in the { i | | Mr. Rocca. It was still being mooted, yes, discussed | ps ¢ = ~ i It was still being discussed. en || I would say that it had come to its end, though, ! ~ = | c 7 i . . . | = ‘| sometime around the end of January, or that time. But these | & 3 | , , , ow | S "4 are just terribly impressionistic judgments. . it i oy Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. = F = no I believe you discussed this this morning, but again,’ = am for my purposes, when did you become ‘involved in the CIA's : “3 : ! % it => 7 . . ‘ . . ! e - "4 velationship with the Warren Commission? (c it ! j = : | om iat s 13 | Mr. Rocca. On or about the twelfth of January, | = Sis il . . . 1 no i from that point on. You get the evidence of it, I think, | & wa! = 7 4 by the 3lst, very clearly. . : i i ee Ze 34 aa 8, oo i Mr. Goldsmith. Now, in CIA number 2100, it indicates ; soil | -_ 4 that he, Alverado, stated that he wanted to protest his So og} = | unjust treatment and the fact that he was given money, since | in ; ; | = Is ii ; ; 1a = , he does not believe in negotiating over death. ~ * Do you know anything about this allegation -- aru : Te : See ; Mr. Rocca. I do. not. ~~ Mr. Goldsmith -- by Alverado that he was given 22 | | money? aa 8 Mr. Rocca. No. : He was an informer, of course, of the Nicaraguan CONFIDENTIAL Docld: 32263409 Page 176 a ween ere meus jf LDERSON RESORTING COMEANY, INC.
CONFIDENTIAL 174 service and had been for some time. They had busted him nh out, or he had been blown, or something, and was moved to \ Mexico City and this thing developed. So, he could well have: q de been referring to that kind of termination pay that is c e i But this should be followed up with the station people “ | normal or whatever. a . | w fo) ~ | But, as I say, this is my first reading of it and ; ~ ; I cannot comment to it. = | Mr. Goldsmith. Well, were you told in 1963 that 3 $i c | Alverado had made a statement about being offered money? = i | = i Mr. Rocca. No, no. : g i | = ili ! = I was told solely that he had failed the polygraph  . bad : @ Po i and that upon told that he was being deceptive that he had = i agreed -- is basically the story I heard. This is hearsay, |; Fog | £ j now. | = i But it's not -- it's not too far off what that = I says, I see now. : 1 ' < Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether his allegation: a ‘ t ete 5 that he was offered money by someone was ever examined? | = 13! * Mr. Rocca. I do not know that. I do not know ~ that. \ Ste ‘i “SS > ro) or the people. who were in the station at the time, or who i handled the case. Ww an ‘ i | You could probably find the man who actually handled | i | Alverado and question him about that, that aspect. Hl if Docld:32263409 Paye 177 ALEERSON SEZSORTING COMPANY, INC.
CONFIDENTIAL 175 The interesting thing -- if we're finished with that | and if I may just interject --. ito , @ ~ Ht Mr. Goldsmith. Please do. "| Mr. Rocca. -- is the fact that he talked about this | “ ii x 7 4 red-headed Negro, because the red-headed Negro then comes i Ay t = it i w L i . : v= i into the story told by a woman. s i Mr. Goldsmith. Elena Garro de Paz? E “| Mr. Rocca. Yes. : ¢ my Elena de Paz -- D-E-- new word -- P-A-Z. S i . = 0 So, if you believe in stream of consciousness in ~ Pho vo . . : =) ii the way things happen, here they go. - But my explanation for | ot 1 wt - 7 f that is that she read it in the Warren Commission report ; ee i , : = 133 . . S 7 or in some of the newspaper coverage, and that's the way it | « || came out. : = 12.:! . . . e 3 But I still took note of it in the memo that I put i = 18 | ; = | together for Belin as to those elements that suggested : 2 i nuance, because she was very persistent in repeating her = + story. But she also happened to be a personal enemy of one | wt ' i x } of the other people involved. Fag | = 7° | Mr. Goldsmith. Silvia Duran? | ee | Mr. Rocca. Silvia Duran. So, there is a question |; oN "| of conflict of interest. 47 i oo, " if But there were people in the embassy who believed : qe! her and continued to report, and there is at least one -State Department man who reported right up to the very moment CONPIODENTEZIAL Docld: 322763409 Page 178 SON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
CONFIDENTIAL 176 of his retirement. | | 7 Mr. Goldsmith. I would like to show you -- @ 3 Mr. Rocca. On this detail. 7 4 Mr. Goldsmith. --CIA number 1983, which is dated =s 7 i April-15, 1964. : i | S i . een It's a memo to Mr. Rankin from Mr. Coleman and Slawson 7 . . : ‘ & 7 in reference to progress in their area, which was Oswald's i ! : é 7 foreign travels. Specifically, on page. 6 of that memo, on - v a paragraph number 7, it indicates that the Warren Commission - ta S ' f at that point had not yet been given a complete report of e <‘' i the Alverado story from the CIA. “ it : = ois . i - * 4 I wonder if you could respond to that? cS i . : ge 7 3 Mr. Rocca. I can't. - ef I have no response to it because this has been long = il ¢ ‘" 3 since -- 7 nan Mr. Goldsmith. That's paragraph number ~7. = ‘| a 7 ; ‘ * “| Mr. Rocca. What is the date of it? z | Mr. Goldsmith. April 15, 1964. | = «4 & "i (Pause) a | Mr. Rocca. This is following their trip there | | aru . i =e i and undoubtedly reflects their conversation on the spot. Taw — I think their note that we 'know informally and through 2] | | highly digested written reports that the allegations have : ae been thoroughly investigated in estabiishing beyond a ' . reasonable doubt as false" has really taken care of it. " —— 7 OMNPIDENTIAL Docld: 32263409 Page 179 LERER SON REPORTING COMPANYS, ING. eee Ee Pareaees
> uw LL ES Se ee wt = & Fe] ~ | N i} a - | wi 3 { = ~ , S > | ~ f | — 1 = 3} = \ | Pa 9 I . I a = id i 2 i = i ey — t s H = 13 OU - * A = ay ue Tra an c lw il - i = t = ty ii . fi ved if ~ Ht aa tw Se 16% ~ i - | “ 7 i = | a | = ts it = iv 4 ~ ! fang a § | a1 rae a2 ey ; 2 ji ov ks | 24 I an Hi CONFIDENTIAL 177 Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, although it would seem that the allegation had been resolved several months earlier, and it is now the middle of April and they haven't received a complete report as yet. That's what I'm focusing on right | now. Mr. Rocca. Well, as I say, I think they got this asa result of being restimulated by their Mexican trip -- if I am correct in the timing. Obviously, if they wanted a final wrap-up report, they were certainly entitled to it. But they had the gist of it. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever send them a final wrap-up report? Mr. Rocca. As far as I know, I do not recall such. Mr. Goldsmith. Paragraph eight refers to additional information of a confidential nature. Do you know what they are referring to there? Mr. Rocca. With respect to your previous question, let me say that they did discuss this in their report. Mr. Goldsmith. In the Warren Commission report. Mr. Rocca. In the Warren Commission report. Mr. Goldsmith. I am aware of that. Mr. Rocca. And it seems to me impossible that they could have written what they did without having a complete and thorough knowledge of what had gone on. Mr. Goldsmith. Did the FBI participate at all in the CONFIDENTIAL Docld:32263409 Paye 180 ALDERSON REFORTING COMBANY. INC.
CONFIDENTIAL 178 q 7 investigation of the Alverado story? | 2 Mr. Rocca. To my knowledge, they did. But I have | @ 3 | not read their reporting. | * | Mr. Dooley would have read that. That was one of | ws i = | his functions, reading those. | 3 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. | * S a Turning to paragraph eight, would you indicate if : a you know what the additional information of a confidential : ; ! : . nature is that is being referred to there? : z a (Pause) 2 | Mr. Rocca. I haven't the vaguest notion. : : 3 Could I look at the rest of the memorandum to see | e 5 "3 what the other topics are, because that's the only way. | = i . 7 a It may be a reference to the working out of the schedule : eo in Helsinki. It could be a matter of the gun, the weaponry. | : S| It could be a matter of the Minsk business. ! ‘ 7 Mr. Goldsmith. I would just assume that you not Look’ x é “| at the rest of the memo at this time, simply because it's | E a very long. If it becomes necessary to show it to you in the 2 29 | | | | o * i future, we'll certainly make it available to you again. iH i ae sie am Mr. Rocca. I can't guess at it. @ | ; Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. | i (Pause). 5 ; i Mr. Goldsmith. While Mr. Berk is checking something for me, let me show you CIA number 2088. CcONPIDEN oe 4 ta taal Docld:32263409 Paye 181 aL
CONFIDENTIAL 179 This is an information report on an individual; ‘ i i ' i ! \ | ‘ | ! ' { { | 5 |l * | the individual specifically is Luisa Rodriguez Calderon. It's i : @ “| dated 26 April, 1965. | + |! i : The source apparently was AMMUG. a 7 | Mr. Rocca. 1965? t \y : “ 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. | = | | ~ The document contains a statement to the following = | = . | 1 = y effect: "It is requested that the addressees take no action | ~ ‘ i a 7 on any of the individuals mentioned in the personality fan | . ' - 19 ; , . | = “i. xeports without first checking with this Agency." = | I am wondering what would be their reason. 7 uw | t en Mr. Rocca. That would be routine. This is a oo : i r = 1, | | S ~ } dissemination. | 5 t ro “| Mr. Goldsmith. That does not indicate to whom the S “~4 report is being disseminated. . | Mr. Rocca. Well, there is a letter and the letter = a ; ‘ 1 ‘ , - : is simply not reproduced here. But normally this would have = ! ‘ ut 4 : } e isi . . . . . i = | gone to all agencies in the intelligence community that ad = i a counter intelligence interest. S 720 a: : . ” i Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. i ; ard : ‘ eae ‘i What would the purpose have been of the qualifying | oN » Ox restrictive language in that paragraph? ; Mr. Rocca. The caveat. Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. ae H i a4 ‘ Mr. Rocca. I would say that it represents the normal " CONFIDENTIAL ‘ Docld: 32263409 Page 152 ALCERSON REFSORTING COMPAN'T. INC.
ban ey [he 854-2945 Ces 202% (202) 4a5 ™ e) noc, SAPD HC COE, HAS MIE LDTNG, a OS! SE St Qu ES Ta A x B = : _— S = 14 ~ i wn wl i - 1 geo I oe hi ; ’ 2 18 | = i! nw i = cat < cond 373 S 20 | if u anon eink . it tN 4 ‘f a 2304 . 4 i 24 | a¢0 5 7 a 4 2 5 4 Docld:32263409 Page 183 CONFIDENTIAL 180 practice in dealing with a live source of this quality and Sensitivity and represents inter-agency practice. (Pause). Mr. Rocca. I mean, this is simply a question of keeping other people from getting into the source, without letting you Know that they are doing it ox getting on to the development of the leads. Mr. Goldsmith. Would ail disseminations to other agencies contain restrictive language Like that? Mr. Rocca. I can't say that all do, but I have written many of them myself and I have read many of them myself --_ Mr. Goldsmith. And it is not at all uncommon for them. Mr. Rocca -- that is it exactly. I wish I had stated | it that way. It is not uncommon. In fact, it is quite common. Then again, it is designed to keep the channels -- Mr. Goldsmith. Please refer to CIA number 1991, which is a memo dated 1 June, 1964 in reference to Alverado. The memo is to Mr. Rankin from Mr. Helms. Specifically refer to paragraph four of that memo. (Pause) Mr. Rocca. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether the Warren CON PIODENTIATL ALEERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
CONFIDENTIAL 181 Commission ever received a copy of the Alverado polygraph to report?  ) ; Mr. Rocca. I do not. * Mr. Goldsmith. Would there be a record of that | = - fact, had the report been given to the Warren Commission? : a 7 Mr. Rocca. Mr. Hall prepared this. He was a S ‘ very careful operator -- he has passed on.. | : - It strikes me that somewhere there must be another : : "| memo that goes along with this. | z icy Mr. Goldsmith. Would there be a record of the polygraph ‘3 i . ‘ = i report having been transmitted to the Warren Commission if, = i e IY in fact, it was? e : 3 Mr. Rocca. Not necessarily. There might have been | = ; | : ¢ a memo saying we regret or something of that kind. But, as | ps 4 i : i I say, I can't say one way or the other. - a Mr. Goldsmith. So, the Agency never compiled a list : 7 of materials that had been provided to the Warren Commission?) z 7 Mr. Rocca. In a single log? : E Fo Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. : ij Mr. Rocca. As far as I know, no. This I regret, ! oe to be utterly frank with you. : te @ maw 7 In other words, this is the final report that they i ' were talking about. a Mr. Goldsmith. I'm not sure I'm following you. Mr. Rocca. This is the wrap-up report that Messers CONFIODENTZIAYL iH rr a ut hy a ' i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld:32263409 Paye 184 © ALZERSS! 8 ~ ~
i | Coleman and Slawson were complaining -- well, not complaining; | 2 Strike that -- that they were saying had not been received. 44 | 6 | Now I dealt with both of them in a very friendly way .! + | a i Mr. Goldsmith. So that report was made available to | ° ‘them on 1 June, 1964? | Mr. Rocca. Which follows very closely after their i oc 7 fl S , - report and we were struggling to get some of these things ; ~ # done, and it took time. c F | - © ‘Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether the Warren 5 Commission was ever told about Alverado making the allegation = i i oe that he had been offered money? 4 © 4 ! Mr. Rocca. I cannot say that at all. I. have no 5 | recollection of it. = | Mr. Goldsmith.. If he had -- = 154 = ; Mr. Rocca. I read it for the first time in that = i statement that you gave me. : & | Mr. Goldsmith. And the Warren Commission makes no = ‘8 | I i a reference to that. = 19} > { i - | Mr. Rocca. Well, the reference is enigmatic, as I i = 20 see it. It could refer to a lot of aspects that might not ae iH a: ; @ SSS { be directly relevant to what was going on. 5 | Mr. Goldsmith. Certainly. . hs Nevertheless, had the information been given to the 24 Warren Commission -- I am not saying one way or another whether or not it was -- but had it been given to the , CONFIDENTIAL { Docld: 32263409 Paiye 185 . ALDEGRSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.