‘TOP SECRET 106 done that _- ‘\ oe . Mr. Miller. All ‘right, period. Mr. Inderfurth. All right, but let's have ‘the sentence that provision should be made for regular access to classified executive orders by appropriate Congressional Committees. Let's put that ‘in. — | Mr. Kirbow. I don't object to that. - | Mx. Maxwell. ‘I would be a little hesitant: about that because it implies that they. couldn't have access at any time. Mr. Kirbow. put! we have said we have access without Limit only of agencies and whatnot. Mr. Miller. But in the executive field, all orders are - deposited in the Federal. Register. There is an actual, | physical place where iit exists. . Mr. Kirbow. Yeah, they're all down there. Mr. Miller. At one period there were a few ‘classified executive orders. Roosevelt dumped a few in there during the war, and what has happened is, asa way of getting . around the requirements of the people, ‘they invented - | other terms and so on and so. forth. This is just a place where | _ you can deposit them. tt is a recordkeeping center. Mr. diGenova.. What about the rest of the paragraph? Are. you saying £6 cones out? | Mr. Miller. It is not necessary. Mr. diGenova. All national security, NSCIDS and all that? TOP SECRET Docld: 32493515 Page 96
~ end 4b begin 5 itsaP SECRET 107 Mr. Aaron, Well, ‘I would presume. it you are doing this, you had better be clear what you are talking about. | We now have executive orders. They exist, a classified @xecutiver order registery exists. ‘What is different about this provision is that it would say that things like NSCIDs are executive | orders and must be so treated, and need to be deposited there. Mr. Miller. They have that. effect on the. bureaucracy, | and NSCID is an order. | Mr. diGenova. te is an” executive order, but we have got to say it, we've got to explain what we mean by an ‘executive order includes or is or. is not limited to. | Senator Huddleston. The only other question I think ought fo to be cleared in this is the emergency question, to be able “to act immediately, if unecessary, before you: file in the . Registery. ' Mr. Kirbow. This is the other one, Mr. Chairman, that “just bothers me. We haven't even talked to anybody about this thing. We haven't heard one word of what the problems are for them or anything else. We really are kind of recommending off the top of our head here. I see a need for something. Senator Huddleston. Didn't we incur a-lot of difficulty in giving any kind of files? Mr. Miller. We hada year's experience. Mr. Kirbow. You mean, you had access to them. Mr. Miller. And where they were, where they lay, third TOP SECRET Docld: 32423515 Page 9F
10 11 12 14 ‘15 16 17 18} 19 20 . al 22 24 25 some of this stuff because it was out on a rock somewhere. can. just put’ a.vault. “problem. © This is a serious problem and a whole new procedure 23° we will bring it back. TUP SECRET — 108. agencies, You go to one agency and they say no, it is not oo there. -- Mr. Aaron. And physically we have problems of even finding ' Senator Huddleston. Where are you saying this is going to be kept? Mr. Miller. Just .probably at the Federal Registry. They Senator Huddleston. | Well, work on that one a little bit. We'll find a location for it. Mr. Kirbow. Well, I think we need to look at the whole for the government, not- just for this one agency. Senator Huddleston. I think there is a lot of justificatign and I think the Committee is going to want to insist on this. Mr. Kirbow. I'm not insisting we. do something right. “I: 4 think we should’ do alittle better staff job. | Senator Huddleston. I think we ought to clean it up a little bit, the concept. | | | Mr. Aaron. All right. I will look to the author,once. again for guidance and direction. | Ms. culbréath. So we are going to bring this one back . to the Subcommittee. | oe | Senator Huddleston. Well, if we meet again and have time . TAP CECDFT -Docld: 324293515 Page 938
| TP SECRET | 1 Mr. Kirbow. Because here we are saying that the directive ‘ 2 of the Central Intelligence Agency are executive orders. | 3 "Senator Huddleston. Well, haven't we addressed in-our 4 recommendations so. fat the requirement that the recommendations 5 | of .the Central Intelligence Agency be reduced to weiting and 6 be on file someplace? | | | : ” Mr. ‘Kirbow. Yes, but not as executive orders. 8 | Senator Huddleston. I realize that, but is that in there 9 someplace? | | ‘lo Ms. culbreath. Is‘ that in there? ll | a Mr. Aaron. I'm not clear. 12 Mr. diGenova. Well, this came up the other day, and , Y _ this is why I wrote that note in the column, ‘to be sure that 14 these things are written down,: and somebody said the issue was 15 discussed and it was never clearly set out that we wanted 7 ) 16 orders of the Director ‘never to be simply oral. We have never 17 ‘made that’ point anywhere! in these papers. We have alluded to 1a | it vaguely. but never said it directly. 1 think we have to . 19 address the issue of oral orders, talk about them and say 20 we don't want them-ever again. | | 21 | Mr. Miller. well, this is another aspect. 22 - Me: diGenova. Now, we talk about oral orders dealing with| 23 actions, dealing with significant actions. 24 = Mr. Kirbow. Now, that is going to have to be a very (25 carefully circumscribed thing or you inhibit the day to day ‘TOP SECRET Docld: 32423515 Page 99
i id e SECRET 110 1 workings: of the government. ~ 2° Mr. diGenova. I think we have some examples, like when 3 Allen Dulles. was smart enough to order, in December of 1959, A authorizing thorough’ consideration of the assassination of 5 | Castro, I think that's the kind of thing where we -- 6 ae Senator Huddleston. the question is how’ do we do ite. —_ i 7 |. ° Mr. Kirbow. How far down the line? 8 - Mr. Aaron. I’ would recommend -- 9 1 Mr. Kirbow. Only that things pertaining to these secret 10 | agencies be in writing and be maintained and be available to 11 this Committee. Tt is a very essential thing. You know, you 12 kind of.see.a lot of what is going on if you see that manual, \ 13° so to speak. | ae | 14 7 Mr. diGenova. Well,that's just a paper trick. —— is | Mr. Kirbow. Mr. Chairman, are you ready to close the 16 “record on this:one? | 7 17 a ‘senator Huddleston. I was ready, but Mr. Aaron comes 198 along. | a9 - (Whereupon, at 6:46 o'clock p.m., the Committee recessed 20 "subject to the call of the Chair.) _ a 21 _ << 22 23 a5. TOP SECRET — Docld:32423515 Page 100 _