202% (202) S5W-2345 p.c. S.U. 300 7TH STREET, Docld: 32266676 WASHINGTON, REPORTERS BUILDING, ma sa > as wn fe i Page | to write the final report, suppose we wanted to tell the might be able to adopt a rule just simply saying that in the | | | handling and for security purposes in the handling of documents from the Intelligence Committee, they shall be handled in accordance with the Intelligence Committee rules | for the House of Representatives. | | | Mr. Blakey. Of course, then you go and read that and yo ‘go to Rule ll and Rule 11 controls the Getail. Ne Mr. Dodd. Could I ask one question there? I am | concerned about really one aspect of this. I would like to | | | see us do whatever can be done to gain access immediately to this information. My real concern comes here, that all of us here have made’ a pledge that at the conclusion of these hearings next year, that we would make public all and any “information that helped us arrive at the results we have... An that information would be available to the public. 1 am-torn, myself, over the desire to get at this, and then faced with the dilemma of having to renege on a commitment that we felt was important. I do not think we anticipated this kind of a thing facing us, and that is my principal concern at. that particular juncture. Mr. Blakey. The issue arises like this. The process ee enn ee en cn cnr rn that we have been going through is a two-step process. First it is access and second it is disclosure. When it comes time Qs QO... American people about Oswald in Mexico, and the only way to ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 15
ro 7 1~14 @ Zz it is to tell them about the photographs and the wire taps. Gar We have been right up front with the Agency and to say Fiog | @ ! : guys may have to bite the bullet when we get down to the end, | 0 | the nature of the surveillance goes to/ the heart of the | z : information and we cannot make-d-conclusion without indicating - ° the heart of the information, and at\that time we will make | : ‘ the appropriate request of you for-fiot access but aisclosure." 2 $ HW ana the Agency says, "Well, we recognize that: problem and ¢ 9 we will see if we cannot develop words that let us disclose | : ie enough in the final report to protect our sensitive sources | z 7 and methods." : ' i : | Be. Dodd . What you. are telling me is that we are not being’. asked at this juncture to make a commitment as to what ees | | | ultimately we will do with the information at the time we make “ | | ee | : | | | 1 RUT LOTUS , a the final report. REPORTERS BOLLING : : Mr Blakey. - Yes; the agreement reserves all z= S| ponstitutional rights to both Sides at the final stage. With en || ° an the Agency, that is disclosure. The only question now is : = “| access. | = 19 | If we need it to tell the American people, I think we | ~ \ = . - ' - = 20 | fight for disclosure. ar Chairman Stokes.- Having read the Intelligence | RSs an || Committee's provision, you are lucky if CIA is willing to take) . i this provision here that you have drafted, because this is not: i anywhere near as stringent as the one of the Intelligence - 4 : ALDERSON REPORTING CCWIFANY. INC. DoclId: 322766676 Page 16 . .
7 1-15 i ; i 1 au. i ~ | Committee. 3] Y Mr. Blakey. The Intelligence Committee actually says, and = ——— , @ 4 | I am reading now from subparagraph. 2, when it says, "Such : 5 action as the committee may take including but not limited to | = ‘| approving the request in whole or in part or denying the wn ro) s request." <7 | | . { How can the House Intelligence Committee deny the request Ss ad | | a when you have Mule 11 which is explicit and it says and I ; 9 = | quote now fron fore ll, “All members of the House shall have | | = “| access thereto. It is explicit. = an ‘Our resolution: says our rules have ‘to be consistent with | 7 | at y i * in| the rules of the House and the rules of the House do not leave @ = 43 any  if's and's or but's. But the requested rule is that it | vz “| brings. into operation the Floor of the House prior to the. | on , | = ig) Bombers access and thus they will take their chances on the & | Floor of the House denying a member access, if we think it vis | = 13) = = | worth fighting over. OAT | | Mr. Fauntroy. And your fear is that were we to operate to tg i} é | under this rule that we would run the risk of being overruled | = 3 | = mI by the House and ‘there we would have to give it. | i ce ' = 20 | Mr. Blakey. But the Agency says they- are willing to risk) aa Floor confrontation. over an individual access and if they BSS | 2 Pans) fy 32 Za 7, = aa @ 4 x t lose that, they lose. But they are unwilling to run the risk of having the decision automatically flow from the rule of the House itself. Ww in H 4 no. - - . , VERSON REPORTING COMPANY, ING. Docld: 32266678 Page -17 _ ALRERSON ORTING i
i 1-16 i | 1! 2 | Wr . Preyer. You do not want to release it because the = — . | 3 | man's conscience tells him that this should be made available | it” i j | to the public. I think at least they have a crack at that 4 | . i public opinion mob elicited by them. | | Mr. Blakey. And I would say in a routine matter that the Oo oy. ; : | rule ought to be absolutely construed in favor of a member's | = i access. i 3 There is very little over there now that could not be turned over to every single member of the House, if he was m == = 10 | adequately briefed before hand, but the deeper we get into before he makes the request, which you might want to >» 12 depending on who makes the request and what he announces { | . or Ft | some of this, the more sensitive it becomes and the-more it is| , 1 i reconsider. - | | i | - Mr. Preyer. When he makes the request to the committee, | we would. have the right to impose conditions on access at that) | time? - | w | Mr. Blakey. Our rules now provide a very stringent : - , | “| situation, only he, and only written, and only in a designated '¢ | room and no notes taken, and of course subsequent disclosure 300 FTTH STREET, SU. REPORTERS DUCLDING, BASHEMGTON, NLC, 20024 (202) SSH-2545 20 | is a violation unless he does it with your majority opinion. | In other words, he cannot come in and. look at something v @ | and then disclose it against the will of the full committee publically and all he can get is access to it. But I think that they have a fear that the ethical violation by a member | : Le OS ERSON REPORTING COMBEANY. INC: Docld: 32266678 Page 18 ALDERSON REPORTING CO ING
1 | @ | 3 + | i o ~! 5 5 j “ , nN i J \ c \ ~ et 9 | oT red saa! = id | S = od = i | ee = 43 | f = | = “t =a { { a i a Nab a = ‘ eS oo 9 +i = 16 | n 7 | ee - | ot i te 13 e 5 = 19] - | e i Ss .2 | Wo! = : se a © Ppl 4a 4 22! ; a5 aw . Docld: 32266678 of not living up to your majority rule might not be a sufficient deterrent to the disclosure. Y chairman Stokes. I have a question and maybe Jim Wolfa, is the proper person to answer the question, but each time we amend the rules, do we then again republish our rules? Mr. Wolfe. All we have to do is. add an amendment to the end, and- we now have. our pamphlet with one glued amendment on it and we will have to glue the new amendment on at the end and we will not have to republish them. - Chairman Stokes. Also previouslyzpand I do not know wnether it is required by the House Rules or notz-but we did “put our rules into the Congressional Record, and are - amendments’ required? ~ . “ Mr. Wolfe. Not necessarily. I do not think.we are necessarily required, and they are public in the sense that -every person. who gets a copy of our rules will get a copy of this provision with it. Chairman Stokes. What about House. members? Mr. Wolfe. If the House member wants access, it has not happened yet, byt ney have asked us sometimes on the phone how to do it, and we would send them a copy of the rules and the rule dealing with access would be at the end. In the same way the Intelligence Committee's rules are public, our rules obviously would be public. Chairman Stokes. Are there any further guestions? If 19 - SEpERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
ibd = A 2 | ~ } , 2 6 i} zt S 7 e | ~ i so] = iy | a | = a ) a 13 =f 1s 40 ro i a | ~. | an 17 . / | Ss U4 2 18 | o a | , E 19] ~ } e : S 20 | | ail _Docld: 322766676 a qe “1 committee shall ‘forward the member.’ s re the committee. did not grant the member' not, the chair will entertain a motion. S wr. Preyer. I move the adoption of this rule amendment, | -_ = Mr. Chairman. Chairman Stokes.. It has been properly moved that the rules of the committee be amended as per the rules amendment now before the members. The amendment is as follows: 13.11. Members who deSire access to restricted, including classified and confidentfal, or sensitive | information that has in addition seen Sesignated by the | ghairman as: primary information, shall. be reauired to request ! such access in writing to. the gommitte - Each such request " a member must be considered aan a majority being| ‘Present, at. the earligst £_OPPO tunity “The committee: may, by record vote, grant the _Rember' a: est, together with a \ | request.. IE. the. member! Ss request isnot granted, the | | recommendation and report of the commit | e, to the House. If “Yn ct “oo request, the member shall have access to the primary " intorhation only subseguent to a determination by the House ak the member's request should be gFanteds Oo | oN ~ M's . Berning. Mr. Stokes. Chairman Stokes. Aye. aT Mes. Berning. Mr. Devine. Mr. Devine. Aye. 20 “AL BERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
1-19 a . . 2 | 1 wes. Berning. Mr. Preyer. Mr. Preyer. - Aye. 3 | 7A | Mes. Berning. Mr. McKinney. Chairman Stokes. Aye by proxy. x Mys. Berning. Mr. Fauntroy. ve | Mr. Fauntroy. Aye. ~ | a = | Mgs. Berning. Mr. Thone. = { : 3 +Bhore—wes [No response. | { : e984 Mrs. Berning. Mrs. Burke. | < | HEhere—was| Mo response.] MES. Berning. Mr. Dodd. TENG TON, Chairman Stokes. Aye by proxy. MES . Berning. Mr. Ford. WD) VASHTNGT ew bh woo ee ne 2 =. Mr. Ford. Aye. 14 | Mys . Berning. Mr. Fithian. zB 154 “Mr. Fithian. Aye. & is | MYys . Berning. Mr. Edgar. a 17 | Mr. Edgar. Aye. = | GN . ~ . z a Mys.. Berning. There .are ten "ayes," Mr. Chairman. in is | Chairman Stokes. Ten. members having voted in the = 7 a e affirmative, the rules amendment is adopted. S 20 oO | Mr. Blakey. There is one other matter which it may be potereagl a | . . . “4 . Boor | appropriate to raise, particularly while everybody is here. Jo “FF : © Se? 22! oo™s ) It is a very sensitive matter, and we ought to get some feel *3 | Erom it. i a2 i ‘Docld:32266678 Pag¢ 21 , oe ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
| Y vou will recall while we were in Cuba, Mr. Chairman, we | nw cel, ME Blakey. The tan covers the bags under my ‘eyes... | discussed on the beach one issue and this deals with an issue ; | that is important. The Central Intelligence Agency suggested | “ . | the only way we could have conversations in private was to : 4 stand on the beach and face the United States, that is out to ° 7 the ocean. | = | So, at certain times we went to the beach and faced the | : i ocean to have conversations. | J 2 | Chairman Stokes. I am glad that you clarified that. - You| _ i¢ | can get the wrong impression. | S | g Mr. Fauntroy. I was about to become very disgusted with | : that and the rested look that you haa when you returned. | | - Chairman Stokes. While he was watching the United ; coy States, waa saw the latest maneuvers: of the latest MIG fighter! 28@ yards off the beach. _ | Mr. Blakey. It was 280 yards. | Chairman Stokes. It was some display of its agility. | Mr. Edgar. Did they know you were there? | Chairman Stokes. ves. | Mr. Blakey. The issue raises as follows: Our rules are | explicit for no electronic surveillance and by that I mean not. ; i ! Hl yan a STREET, S.W. REPORTERS DUTEDING, ia z , even the wire tapping which is obviously beyond the pale, but no central recording either. As all of you now know, there are two informants in the i {- ' 1 \ | i i 4 ! Docld:32266678 Pag 22 at seRson REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
RG: 233 oe TAB ff: ENTRY: a 7 a Se | . COPIES/ PPS. /CLASS. BOX: “ACCESS RESTRICTED. The item identified below has been: withdrawn from this file: File Designation Date a From _ Ziw AE | a to V7 In the review of this file this item was removed because access to it is restricted. Restrictions on records in the National Archives are stated in general and specific record group restriction statements which are available for examination. The item identified above has been withdrawn because it contains: [] Security- Classified Information, [x]. Otherwise Restricted Information “Us 8 C cA _. 08/22/93: , —mathority : coe Date. ~ Withdrawn by NSCA “John F, Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (?. L. 102-526) | NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION OS NA FORM 14000 41-86) Docld:8226 AWN N Ly JOTLON TVNVUGHLIN
202" (202) S5H-+29n5 pb.c, {HTMGTON, ¢ Pv) REPORTERS AUTLDING, HA S.V. 390 ITH STREET, J, ai, yi =) / Docld: 322766676 nN de in os) be (es) i) nd ie wo in very seriously before we get involved in any kind of action at “decision you take. 'a comment I made to you, that it seems to me it would be io t YW Mr. Blakey. The Supreme Court has decided a case on this and they have set up the rules that should be followed in this kind of a situation and it would be possible for us to follow those rules and not invade the attorney-client privilege. Chairman Stokes. I was aware of that general principle. Mr. Edgar. Given the information that we have so far, I think we ought to put this in our thinking and think about it this point. So, I would suggest aE mil it over in our minds and keep it within the committee structure and deal with it at some future time, because I think that there are some very, very serious questions. : Mc. Blakey. “They are extremely serious, no matter-what Mr . Edgar . If I> would have an opportunity to vote now, I - a | would vote "no." ; Ce Mr. Blakey. Whatever decision you make you run risks and Chat : it is not something tae has to be decided today, but it is something that has to be decided next week. | | | Chairman Stokes. JI think the gentleman is absolutely © right, that this is something that the committee needs to | think about, and have further dialogue with one another on, . - t and then we can entertain it at some later date. Mr. Edgar. Before we adjourn, I would like to reiterate ; 24 . | ALBERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
Docld:32266678 Page 25 ~ . ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. 1-30 ty | 2 | helpful in the next week or two to have at least an hour 2 | meeting of our committee to bring together all of us to get a 4 | summary report of where we are in terms of status with each of = | the investigations, the foreign contacts, the process of where, ~ ; = | we are going, and I think we are in need of that at.this wn o.1 : { a i point. | a 7 | | . | Y chairman Stokes. Your comments to me were brought to the| = i attention of Mr. Blakey today and he is going to follow | i - 9 ; | = | through with that. | 5 ‘0 Mr. Blakey. There are a number of dramatic developments | = [!1 | that are occuring day by day, and I am finding it a problem | = 2} being brief, but I have obviously no problem with keeping you = aa.) people up to date and we ‘can certainly do that within the next: oBesakeb ; . . | 1s. Chairman Stokes... There being nothing further at this "= if time, the meeting is adjourned subject to the call of the oe = | chair. ( a = Jiwhereupon at 4:55, the committee adjourned subject to za. : | ws ta ' . . : ~ rat | the call ‘of the Chaird} : | in { | 5 20 | | at Ca! i