JFK Assassination System Date: 4/21/201 Identification Form Sanne es Agency Information AGENCY: FBI RECORD NUMBER: — 124-10302-10035 } RECORD SERIES: HQ AGENCY FILENUMBER: 29-31 889-217 Document Information ORIGINATOR: FBI FROM: SAC, CG TO: DIRECTOR, FBI TITLE : - DATE: 02/05/1964 PAGES: 11 SUBJECTS : [Restricted] DOCUMENT TYPE: PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT CLASSIFICATION : — Unclassified RESTRICTIONS: = 4. CURRENT STATUS: — Redact DATE OF LAST REVIEW: — 05/16/1998 OPENING CRITERIA: = INDEFINITE COMMENTS: INCLHM v9.1 56 DoclId: 32310091 Page 1
Ss UNITED STATES GC MENT : : 1 : i w | yt YY emorandum . e . TO: DIRECTOR, FBI (29-31889) | DATE: February 5, 1964 ROM? SAC, CHICAGO (29-1999) (RUC) ~ SUBJECT: JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; | DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE, aka. ; fas! ET AL / FRA; Etc. Sr 00: DETROIT ALL INFORMATION CONTAINED DATEL laa ates e | Enclosed for the Bureau, Detroit and ie) are {J 4, 2 and 2 copies respectively of a letterhead memorandum cme containing a transcript of a tape made by an Edwards pocket >< recorder worn by ROBERT C. MEISSNER during his meeting with-~- JOSEPH VERHELLE in Detroit on January 10, 1964, This in ReBulet 1/27/64. suppi@mental transcript resulted from several reviews of ™ tapes™prepared by Chicago and the FBI Laboratory. No py further tape<reviews are contemplated by Chicago. iy Lr © a Detroit and Memphis should disseminate a copy of:. the eneldésed letterhead memorandum to WILLIAM FRENCH and WALTERS J$. SHERIDAN respectively. => The original tape, plus the 2 dub tapes prepared | by Chicago and the 2 tapes prepared by the Laboratory will be sent to Detroit under separate cover. ROS @)- Bureau (Encls. 4) RS | - Detroit (29-1432) (Encl 2 2 - Memphis (72-43) (Enels. "3) use Z7- BLS crr-Ly] | 1 - Chicago . ae | f GTJ:MAQ 1 | (7) ; 10 vet 964° _ a : peat Ob WMANCE =, gs meant 59° FEB 19 1964 gest *) | yy ory Lape Uritninal Divisione ) sl yee a ait Attention: Mr. Walter J. Sneath nee. fon \ ’ Rea 0 ZL. cent SEINA Pe (Ff (etna GE irae Ghia del DoclId: 32310091 Page 2? RE etm cee canned Ey Pgh a ee ttt ee tenet i aR a CRE “RY 2 ‘
ia a } ; , oo UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION In Reply, Please Refer to Chicago, Illinois File No. February 5, 1964 ALL iNFORMATION CONTAINED ; HEREIN 1S UNCLASSIFIED ; JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DATELO-LE- 4st thse, DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE; < ET AL , . SFit) The following is the transcription of a tape made by an Edwards binaural pocket tape recorder worn by Robert C. Meissner during his meeting with Joseph Verhelle in Detroit, Michigan, on January 10, 1964: "This is Special Agent William F. Hood, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Chicago, Illinois. I have just installed a tape recording device on the person of Mr. Robert C, Meissner at his residence in Hinsdale, Illinois, and this date January 10, 1964, at approximately 6:30 A.M. Long inaudible conversation (V) .. . . that $200,000 a year is a hell of a lot of money to pay out for taxes. Inaudible (M) . . . . to a charity? (M) Did he actually misappropriate .. . (v) . . . to my way of thinking... Inaudible (V) I have an attorney, who is probably the best attorney in . town. I sent him a letter. Inaudible . (V)  . . They don't own it... “sy . » « e Shareholders .. DoclId: 32310091 Page 3
(M) (Vv) (v) (Vv) (M) (Vv) (Vv) - (Vv) (Vv) (M) (M) (Vv) ne’ )) t : Wy) wv) JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE ; ET AL Uh huh And there's a shareholder's meeting on the 20th. There is in every bank all over the country. . . Uh huh soe . . So they have gone away and put in a million dollars 1 Inaudible . . . theoretically I'm not supposed to know this . . Do the shareholder's know what's goin. on? No, I told them yesterday. . . . « Hoffa's in jail... They met . . . and they were still in session about 3:35... Hm hm . «.e « the commissioner's coming in..... - « - . catch hold of him . . . he doesn't know I've come down .. » Inaudible . - - if those guys get out could you take the bank over again? Oo _ Yeah, . oe JI can get $5,000,000 if I telephone . . Oh, really. . Put it in, a . . oe. . aS equity or deposit? ~ 2 = DoclId:32310091 Page 4
(Vv) (Vv) Ww) (Vv) (MM) (ut) (M) (M) (M) (v) (M) (V) (M) "  (V) © ae JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA ; DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE ; ET AL As ...:. no, no. .,. as capital ° Inaudible , * 6 . . equity has been cancelled because ... . . . That's the only way to keep that thing going. Now what they can do is trick the stockholders into believing . . . . diseredit . i . along Michigan that as .. Senator Mansfield . « . it slander of creditor Inaudible . 8 privileged anyway ... Yeah .. o ‘J e . Jimmy e e ° Yeah, sure .. “se He'd put in the $5, 000,000... ‘Inaudible Well, that's a wonderful bank Inaudible Oh, is that the one they gave this big- line of credit to? - ‘ An unlimited line ese 6 Oh, did they do a favor for somebody or something? No, they. goofed ee It wasn't where they owed somebody a favor and ‘they had to give - 6 e . ¢ . . . they were just stupid. -~3. a ae DoclId: 32310091 Page 5
L (M)' (Vv) (V) . (Vv) (M) “(M) (M) (V) (M) (Vv) mc) JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; ‘DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE ; ET AL . . . the kind of bank director not to have. . « » everything about it. . . make them continue to give them the money .... , Inaudible . « « stuff they put on windows to keep the sun out... and these people make a:hell of a lot of that stuff. " They probably .. . . and that would be pretty bad so , I said fine and everything was lovely until they got .. “money so these guys didn't want to pay until 90 days. after they collect their money . Inaudible So I think they're in trouble too . » « not in trouble, what they're doing is taking the dough outta there and stickin' it in their pocket oe Inaudible Is it a well known family or just some fellows who are comin fast? Inaudible How can Hoffa help on a thing like that? Does he have that kind of money lyin around . . . come from. one of the welfare funds? | “ Through the welfare funds sure .. oe No payments till fall. Good golly . . . and that's what the Public Bank has to live with... . . they made an agreement to pick up all the . . . regardless of what and... . . they have no control over the terms that these people put - on their ... ~ 4 - DoclTd:32310091 Page 6
(Vv) (Vv) (Ml) (v) (at) ‘W) f™ Ne JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE; ET AL . . . Sully Sherone our attorney, he told me that he had seen Jimmy, of course they were on this negotiation and he was the one who told me about .. . this was actually before it:was in the paper that they're moving down to Chattanooga and that .. . tough one .. .,. I know from the work we've done in that state and knowing that state, they don't like outsiders. I don't see how he's gonna come out unless they get a fix in there. I just don't know how. This is the toughest one he's ever had. Inaudible » ». « - Jimmy's head attorney Whose, Jimmy's head attorney? Which one is that? That's the fellow from town here. . Oh, he's from Detroit ... Inaudible . * - « - I happened to walk in his office ..,. . and he had just come back .. . this was before they got the move . and he says you know this thing-happened .. . there isn't -(M) - an attorney who can tackle this. They're all scared to death and this guy's staying down in Washington. Well, I'm not: so sure that that isn't actually gonna be the route, that, they can get some help down there cause’... . working as we did .. . that's a practical state .. . and on the other hand I've never seen, you know you talk about clannishness up.in New Hampshire or the clannishness out on the North Shore in Chicago. Those people are all related to _@ach other and unless you're in, you're out and they don't an (M) Me ee ee like anybody from the outside. Now that would be true . , they wouldn't like Jimmy but on the other hand, they're not gonna like Bobby either .. . , One thing that concerns me though is when we talked" in Washington and talked about the possibility of Chicago and so on , DoclId:32310091 Page &
(v) (M) (Vv) (M) (M) (M) (W)  @) (M) (Vv). | (Ml) Well, Clements is ...HI understand a practical . O ao 5 7 JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE ; ET AL I can't see how it's gonna do.one darn bit of good to have the fix in Chicago. If he gets convicted in Tennessee, because if he's convicted in Tennessee and comes to Chicago with a recent felon, he's had it. No matter how much your Judge might help .. . because under those circumstances ... . . . it's just too soon... - Inaudible - . . At least we can keep track of it in Chicago because we'll be in a position to help .. . apparently they're just gonna make sure that the one down South is... I don't know why... ~ Inaudible I don! t think it's helped him a lot to get it moved. Well, I think as a matter of fact, it's probably hurt because this is a little town... Sort of a home town type thing where everybody knows everybody and there is certainly no industry there compared to Nashville. » » in an industrial community .. . why he might just on the .law of averages get friendlier ... . Lo - that bothers me because you surely think that... He'ts the fellow I met before... . They have, they have... e « « . and wetve worked with Clements and we've worked with his .. . and these are practical guys - + « » and anybody that's on the bench down there. jis gonna listen . . . which is from that point of view a practical thing but it bothers me cause he's gotta come out of Tennessee I think without a conviction otherwise when he comes to Chicago DoclTd:32310091 Page 9
(M) (Vv) (Vv) (M) (v) (IM) (M) (M) DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE; ET AL . JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; an an ‘ : ‘ ~ / Inaudible I think that it could be done, I really do . , ah . . and it can be done fast but .. ah. . if they're gonna move, they're gonna have to move and move fast. Se ° e Cen true . ,° ° It can't be done by Jimmy, it's got to be done by somebody else . ... ; I agree absolutely, it's gotta be somebody in an entirely different industry, you as a banker or somebody like myself 'as an engineer . . . that can, that has other business down there, other reason to be talking to these people .. . can have nothing to do with _the situation down in Chattanooga at all but... ah... I think jt can be done but it costs money. - Like, any idea? .Well, I would just guess, I would think that ..ah.. to delude the top guy is gonna cost a quarter of a. million bucks. Maybe even half a million. Campaign contributions I don't think they're interésted in. I think they'd be interested in real money. Maybe . . . deposited out of the United States on a COD basis, that way you Know somebody doesn't get paid before they get through . . ah . . cause they work on the honor. system down there anyhow, they always have . . but that the only way . . the reason I know is that even though we have this ' pankruptcy' in .°. . all kinds of interstate highway stuff and you have to be qualified . . . qualified ...sO.. . and they just sit down and say well okay .. . they're looking for cash . « «. you're in the country or out of it, they-don't care but that's it. No hitches, no problems. ; Inaudible Do you think you can get them to come up with that money . oe Did you ever talk to Jimmy about me,’ you told me you were going to ° e o  ¢@ y - 8 . DoclIda:32310091 Page 10
(M) (Vv) (M) (M)- (M) (M) (Vv) (M) JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE; ET AL . Inaudible You wouldn't tell him ah who I am at all... . No, I wouldn't -_ You'd work with him period _ » « «@ e that makes sense .. . Well, as a matter of fact, I don't want to know anything about it either but I “wouldn't want to know about it. All I'd want to do is... Inaudible .... Is that right... - © « « Sometimes its ... Well, I suppose SO . 6 o- Long inaudible conversation" The tape recorder was concealed on Meissner's person by Special Agent William F. Hood prior to Meissner flying to Detroit and was removed immediately upon his return to O'Hare International Airport where he was met by Special Agents William - F, Hood and Gale T. Johnson at approximately 2:40 P.M., CST, January 10, 1964. Upon removal of the recorder, it was noted that the supply reel of the recorder had been completely emptied. a The prefix (M), for Meissner, and (V), for Verhelle, - were used to identify.the person speaking wherever identification was possible. This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. It is the ~9- : wenn ee - - aL DoclIda: 32310091 Page il