HW 54756 1 mr. Esoinosa io. i@ told me that née nad teen in touch 2 with tne CiA anc se had deen in touen with Artime, cut at the 3 mowent I was Led to believe it was the CIA who had arranged 4 the- meeting, and I would nave ceen surprised if that was so. 5 wr. rornodeck. I want to be very specific 235 to the 6 information that you are getting from AXocreno and from any 7 other source. | a 8 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 9 hr. Hornbeck. So just getting back to what ne tole you, 10 Robreno says to you, on the one. nand Cubela nas been in touch 11 with Williamson from the CIA, and ne also tells you Cubdela nas 12 met with Artime, and you are not sure whether Ruoreno tells 13 you that Cubela and Artime met in Madrid. Is that a correct 14 summary? 1 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. He told me that they met, but I 16 can't rememoer wnether it 42S in macrid or another pvlece 17 Wir. hornoecx. was there anytning about the use of a 18 rifle and @ silancer by Cubela that you would nave found 19 strange in an assassination plot to kill Castro? 20 Mr. Espinosa. I would have found it very strange cecause 21 Castro is a touch guy and you can never hunt nim with a rifle 22.in the sense you never know where ne is going to de or wnhien 23 street one is going to be passing tnrougn. So I would think it 24. is very, very unlikely, and especially Rolando knows this very 25 well, oetter tnan I do, tnat this-is a kind of a guy that Docld:32246514 Page 84 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC
10 2 12 13 14 15 16 17 - 18 19 20 21 23 24 25. iS practically ince a ©) 7) 107) - rel an o ctr e) ran = a bt cr oa rey) "y tv ry be oO wr. rOoOrnoecK. @) c te re) ct £45) uw © a fo) i) i + rab) f+ 509) cr B © > 107) a 1?) © c discussed cefore ocetw om Caat + Vaser oO b D Q (eo) c G wo t+ {) rt) < wD <@) b' re) 02) co 3 ct ra) ion na oO = fay) € special opportunities for Cudela? Mr. Espinosa. Incredioly special ovportunities; exceptionally special. Mr. nmornbecx. Can you give us something on that? m4 Mr. Espinosa. Let us say one day Rolando could find out Uw tnat Castro was in his nome outside Havana, and ne could nave “gone over there at 4 Gay or night, and even at-5:00 o'clock in the morning and tell the guards "I am going to. se re Castro," and they would have let nim in without objection. Mr. Blackmer. You were friends with Carlos . Hernandez? Mr, Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Glackmer. You went on two raids with him that were aborted and you trained with nim in Panama ana Guatemala. Pid you recognize tnat ne nad a special relationsnip witn Manuel Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. Do you Know the extent of tnat? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Slackmer. You.personally disliked Artime; Fe Ww ct i) mM Spinosa. ‘Yes. Mr, Blackmer. Did you personally know nim? . - DORT ; HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 85 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HW 54756 DBocld: 322746514 5 ™m “a Oo te 3 (o) “A iW) in’ o) = ) ke oe olackmer., You were training in Guatemala, “TI” understand? Mr. gspinosa. And in Panama. And he came te Panama, a I was assigned to give him the demolition training, @ crasn course in demolition. So I was in touch with him for a few days, closely, ana I didn’t think mucn of him, really. And you want me to tell. you the story about that? think tnat tnat will de necessar Ad Mr. Blackmer. I don'ts C what was the feeling generally among the exiles that yo had contact witn adout Artime and nis position with tne-CIA? Mr. Espinosa. It was about the same, Mr. Blackmer. what is tnat? Mr. Espinosa. They disliked the ides that 2 pupost was oeing imposed on then. Me. Blackmer. Did you ever discuss this witn Carlos, nh relationship witn Artime? Mr. Espinosa. io, not really. Mr. Blackmer. Did you ever talk to Robdreno about your dislike or distrust for Artime? Mr. Espinosa. ho. ir. Blacxmer. Bid you distrust Artime also? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mien Slacknier. Do you taink ne was personally motivated Page 86 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, iNC, co Ys u
HW 54756 11 12 13 14 16 16 17 18° 19 20 21 23: 24. 25 Or Co and not patriotically motivated? ar, ispinesa. Yes. Me. Elaecxmer vid you trust Kobreno? mr. ESpinosa. when it comes to something I nad to do wr. Slackmer, You think ne would not nave told Fidel aodout Rolando's working with the CIA? mr. Espinosa. He was very loyal to Cubdela. 5 to tlackmer. where were his loyalties with respect to p Mr. Espinosa. No, he is not by nature a very loyal person or very legal person, but Cubdela was like his hero. 4 ir. Blackmer. Are you familiar with en individual named x iv + my =zSpinosa. he. Mr. Slacker. ur. Orlando Sosen? mr. ESpinosa. to Io nave heard asout nim Mr. .Blackmer nave you hag any contact with him at all? or. Espinosa. io. Mr. Blackmer. Had you heard that ne might nave been cperating in this country auring 1963 and had you heard anything about any of nis activities in this country at that time? Mr. Espinosa. to. ur. Glackmer. OSic you xnow an indivicual named Julio ~~~ Loco in. favana? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, DoclId: 322746514 Page 87
1 or Espinosa. 2. Miry 3lackmer., 4 Mr. Espinosa. 8 mur. Espinosa. 9 vir. Elackmer. 10 Cudan exile moveme 11 Mr. Espinosa. 12 personally I was a 13 contributed to or 14 Mr. Lacka ras) r, cy (Om) ~ tes ~e ~ 5 be t as ur . ~ 7% “ft mo 140 18S tne extent of YOUr AASwLecee Of a [rlena Of filn? waés tiarried to & niece of ew ~ * os ~ a 7 = fa ene guy Unréee or four times in my Life Hot tauat I know of. vO you know 1f ne was active in any of the nts? I heard that the guy is giving money, but ever involved with anything that ne anything like that. mave you ever neard of an indivicueal named 16 ' Mr. Espinosa. 17 face Sut to soun 18 wr. Blacxmer.- 19 in connection with 20 ‘ir. Espinosa. 21 Have you got 22 Mr. Blackmer., -@ — 23 wOuld he nave 24 Mr. Espinosa. 25 mucn morales, out HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 66 It souncs familiar, but I can't see the cs fawilier. DO yOu Know what you would nave hear: C2. ' 2 iO. @ picture of him or anything? HQ. been @ hired killer, an assassin? wmen you-tientioned tha name, it is aot so tne first name, it rings 4 sell, out I can't ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC,
Ca Q>. 1 see it 2 wor, Ulackuer, Coulda fie have been active with you in the 3 anti-Satista moveuent with you or with someone else? 40 or. Espinosa. I don't know. I can't place the guy, and 5 so if I can't place the suy --- 6 Mr. eleckmer. How about David Morales? 7 Mr. Espinosa. HO. 8 mr. Blackmer. Monkey Morales? 3 Mr. Espinosa. wo. 10 Mr. Glackmer. Have you ever neard of an individual namec 12 -Mr. Espinosa. Wo. 13 _ Mr. Blackmer.° Are you familiar with Alhpa 66? 14 hie. ESpinosa. I have heard of it. 15 rir. Blackmer. Do you have any information abcut one of 16 tne founcers or leaders? 17 oir, Espinosa “WO. 18 Mr. Blackmer. Do you know an individual or have you 19 neard of an individual naned Morris Sishop? 20° Mr. Espinosa. No. 21 Mr. Blackmer. when you were in Cuda in 1957, '58, and 22. '59, nave you nad any contact with Santiagc, Cuba, or did you 23 éver go there? an 24 Mr. Espinosa. lo. 25. hr. Blackmer. Are you familiar with a-corpsoration named ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 69 RAR te Ao mae ERAN TERA BRIA ALA GLIIMIATARL NR AAADA 19ND 224 Ata
ACY — “y or aan eee wpe rLackmer.. THT? ve) 2 ir. spinosa. ho. . we were using naval 3 mr. olackuwer. You had just run scecial wires out on the 4 wings of tne plane and you were going over there, and didn't y 5 that seem kind of a gumshoe operation, rather @ shoddy 7 rir. ESpinosa. I agree with you. 8 Mr. EBlackmer. Lid you feel that someone ole i) rom fam ao xs 09 Kh cr 9 never wieant it to be made? 10 Mr. m cr Spinosa. ‘Secause the person who was szonsoring it 11 was Mike, and he gave us a means to do it and ne didn't get ou 12 the right bombs and we didn't yet the right things; he is not 13 an expert in explosives or in planes. 14 Mr. Blackmer. But you are? 15 ' ir. Espinosa. Yes. 16 Mr. Elackmer. and you couldn't do any better than a twin W7 angine Seachcraft? 18 Mir. ESpinosa. well, we cian't as for any better and we 19 were afraid to ask for a 8-25 or B-26. 20 Mr. Glackxmer. On tne first one, out on the second one 21 you did? 22 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, because ne warmed up to the idea, 23 Me. Blackmer. You are talking about tne cost. 24 Mr. espinosa Yes, it was alot of money 25 Mr. Blackmer @uite @ lot more for the 2-25 than the ; ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 92 ae mem OR ON RAR TARA Rm AR
Se) ho 2 r. £Spinosa fou nave to ocuy it, anc it is not very 3 easy to rent a 8-25, especially the ones with tne right bones 4 and tne woole tning. 5 me, Slacxmer. The plane you were going to take, the 8-25 6 at Ponchartrain, to your knowledge, was fully operational, with 7 bComd bay doors? 8 Mr. ESpinose. I insisted that the bombd racks were in 9 there or I wasn't going to do anything with it. 10 ‘Mr. Blackmer. To your knowledge, you do not Know where 11 this plane was going to be obtained or wno was going to get 12 it? 13 Mr. Espinosa. No. I heard things about Arizona and I 14 heard they were flying the plane from Canada, and I heard that 15 the plane was going to de flown from South America, and I 16 heard all of this. 17 I told Nike, "I con't want to near enything; we don'ts 18 want to Know , we don't want to Know 19 Mr. Blackmer. You just told Hike to get tne plane? 20 Mr. Espinosa. Yes 21 Mr. Blackmer. Do you assume he went through Sam Benton 22 to get tne plane? 23 | Mr. Espinosa. Yes a 24 Mr. Slackwer, That was the first time? 25 Mr. Espinosa. And wouldn't Be sursrised if he went ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 93 | en
we) bad 1 through nim the second time 2 wir. Slackmer mic 2132 was aware of tnese oceretions 3 aside from the group carticicating, Bentoa and Chaney and 4 yourself? 5 wir. soinosa. well, © imagine their wives or girl 6 friends.and everybody in the Operation. 7 Mr. Blackmer. Specifically, any Americans? 8 Mr. Espinosa. to. 3 mr. EBlackmer. Any members of the CI&? 10 Mr. Espinosa. no, for Christ's sake, of course not. 11 Mr. Blackmer. But no other Americans other than Benton? 12 .Mr. Espinosa. I wouldn't say Benton. I knew Mike, and 13 if he used Benton, I don't know. 14 Mr. Blackmer. Did you have a meeting in June at the nom 1S of mike MceLaney and yourself and say you were discussing this B S tnere someone oresent? 16 operation, and w 08) 17 Mr. Espinosa. Miguel Alvarez. 18 Mr. FClackmer. was. Benton cresent? 13 mir. Espinosa. I can't remember. I am not trying to -- 20 Mr. Blackner., Our files indicate that Benton gave the ct a) ra) yy a0) 21 story that he was just there to take pictures and he was IN Or publicity, and after the raid was successful you were 23 going to play up the pudlicity aspect of it Was tnere any 24 truth to that story? 25. Mr. Espinosa. The first raid or the second one? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 94 ‘ AL NA NITE SLT NINE UAL A OLIINFA TAAL IN AS MANDA FIANN REA 9948
KO fz 1 — oNr,. Blackmer. The first one. 2 oir. Espinosa Io wes never aware tney were going to taxe 3 any gictures. 4 Mr. Elackmer. Woat was nis role? 5 Mr. Espinosa. As far as I know, tne first time he was to § rent the plane. 7 Mr. Blacker. That is 211? 8 Mr. Espinosa. That is all. 9 Me. Blackmer. And when you were detained by the FET and 4 10 Customs at the site, where were you comiing from and how were 11 you to meet? 12 Mr. Espinosa. You mean over there, in that strip where 13 the Beacheraft was? I was coming from my aunt's house in that : oa . 0 14 Thunderbird, with the napalm, or whatever it was, and I w 03) SS) 15 getting there to be with the -rest.of the guys and to take 16° over. 7 Mr. Blackmer. You were to meet the plane? 18 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 19 Mr. Blackmer. And wno was bdringing tne olane? 20 Mr. Espinosa. aAlpizar. 21 Mr. Blackmer. Go you know 2 person named William Pawley? 22 You never neard of William Pawley? 23 Mr. Espinosa. An American? 24 Mr. Blackmer. Living in Niamail, and he is 2 war nero 25 from world war II and. worked with the Flying Tigers and “ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 95 SAA Teh OTOCET Stal DPEOMATERS AI MIAIGM WALA CUIAIG TOAD AC OANTA FIND RRALIRAG
) 3 eneral Chenault, an 2 ous system in Cube a 3 in the anti-Castro 2 4 Mir. Espinosa. 5 Mr. Dlackmer. 8 Mr. Espinosa. 7 Mr. Blackmer. 8 “Mr. Hornbeck, 9 Havana pre-1959. I 10 and that is now you if Mr. Espinosa. 12 Mr. Hornbeck. 13 frequent any of the 14 Mr. Espinosa. Y 15 of the guys. We wou 16 escecially because o 17 mp. Hornceck, 18 various casinos, did 19 owners? 20 mre. Espinosa. 21 otner day, for examp 22 one guy, I tnink it 23 Mr. Hornbeck, 24 Mr. Espinosa. 25 Mr. mnornbeck. HWo54756 Docld:32246514 Page 96 Ne) Ul 4 oa) Aan hi eina : are Mos Poa G @L150 NBG a2 TuUsiness 1N vusca, neaad of a4 a : Sonia anna of laa natiya nag tanen in LGinul, anc 12 wes Very ective eCtlviciles. WO. You never heard of nim? HO. I nave no further questions. You mentioned tne casino industry in Dpelleve that you frequented some casinos met Mike MeLaney; is that correct? Yes. In addition to the Nacional, did you other casinos? - es. I used to go out in the evening; all la g0 to one and tnen to another one, fF the snowgirls, really. During the time that you were going to tne you come to Kcnow some of the casino I was pointed out, like I told you tne le, George Raft was there, and then I saw Was White or Snow. . Larry Snow? fes. Did you Know Dino Cellini? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. eee = = oe eR RR RR RRA me ne
ie) On 1 r. ESgincsa are 2 mr. norgageck. zddie Cellini? 3 (oir. Essinosa. io. 40 mr. Horabveck. Charlies Tourine? 5 mit. Espinosa. Niow 6 Mr. Hornbeck, Nartin Fox Zauora, at the Tropicana? 7 Mr. Espinosa. This is one tnat I never went to. I was 8 there ance, but because it was so far away I never went over 9 there. 10 Mr. Hornbeck. Santos Trafficante? 11 Mr. Espinosa. If nave neard of nim, but I never met him 12 Mr. Hornbeck. Was ne ever pointed out to you? 13 Mr. Espinosa. Ho, 14 Mr. dornbeck. Did you @ver hear of Santos. Trafficante 15 being involved in Miami wita any ant in -Castro activities? 16 Mr. g£Spinosa. Yes, I have heard about that. m 17 Mr. Hornoeck. Would you tell us what you neard, first of 18 all, and then pernaps tell us the source of your inforsiation? 19 Mr. Espinosa. Okay. enat I nave heard is that he was 20 helping and trying to do something to help some seosle lik 21 Mixe nelped me to overthrow Castro. 22 Mr. dornoeck. when you say neloing Mike -- 23 Mir. Escinosa. ho. 24 Mr. Hordaoeck. Do you know of 2 relationshio between > (25 Trafficante and Mike “cLaney? ALDERSON. REPORTING COMPANY, INC, MW 94756 Docld: 32246514 Page oe STREET S\N REPORTERS ANII!MING WASHINGTON 1 2024 °(9N9) 344-7985
MO) Ne) 1 er. nornveck. Could that 1éVe Ceen tae Biltmore Terrece? 2 Mr. Esoinose. Yes. 3 ar. nornoeck., was that tne same hotel tnet Roberto 4 Fernancos Mirandce was associated witn? 5 Mr. Espinosa. That IT don't know. 6 mr. dornoeck. wned you saw Cagpy Rothman in Miami, cid 7 you ever discuss with hin any anti-Castro activities? 8 mr. gSpinosa. lever, 9 ear. nornvecx. bid ne ever solicit your aid in any kind 10 of Cutan adventure? 11 ‘ir. Espinosa. ever. 12 Mr. Hornbeck. Did he ever discuss the Castro regime; 13 what it has cost his father and what it nad cost him? 103) 14 Mr. Espinosa. Maybe ne mignt have made a comment abdout 15 that sonietime or other. Sut it was aot anv ceptn or anything 16 like that. 17 mir. cornabeck. Did you ever near of or did you ever meat 18 Kelly cr Sem MNanarino, from Pittsourgn? 19 Mr. Espinosa. tlio. 20 Mr. norabeck., Cid you ever near their nanes mentioned by 21 Cappy or Norman Rotnman? 22 Mr. Espinosa. io. 23 Mur. Soraveck. Did you ever meet in Cuba or “tami neary 24 Savaradra and he ned a niekname of "Kiki"? 25 wr. ESpinosa. tio. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DocId: 32246514 Page A00 | QTRELT SIAL RESOARTERS AHH MING WASHINGTON 9 © 370094 (907) 5Ad-23458
— C3 @) ar an Me ty Teg nt . + lawman: ~ Daan aa 9 1 wer. Goracveck, Cid you Know 2 Ranneel Cener? a] 162) i ra oS (@) fA a re (@) c > (@)) On a5) QO ray) 63) cs ra tot ct Oo | aed Q Oo Cc ce cb os 70) y ue 3 sounded familiar 4 ir. uornceck., tle nad a nickname of Macho, M-a-c-n-o. 5 Mr. ESpinosa. No, I remember tnat much I never dic 6 mr. mornbeck. vid you ever meet any incividual in the 7 United States or in Europe by the name of Macho? 8 Mr. Espinosa. Ho. 9 mr. iorncoeck., “During the tise that you were in Paris, 10 cid you ever run across any ex-meucers of the CAs? 2 ’ 11 Mr. Espinosa. No. I didn't even know the OAS existed. (12 You are talking. about the French organization? 13 ir. Hornoeckx. Yes. 14 Mr. Espinosa. io, I never did. 15 mr. Horabeck. Again, while you were in Eurose, cid you 16 oy fay) 23) ral a) a) < Solcier of Fortune people who were fignting or going 17 to fignt in tne Conso? 18- Mr. Espinosa. Uo. The only ceoole I nave known xo to 19 the Congo with the Cubans that went with the CI&, 20 “ir. Hornoeck. were those peosle that you knew in Cube 2] Mir, o> Spinosa.. Tnat I knew in Cuba or that I knew frog 22 tne invasion or from revolutionary activities in Miami. They 23 are tne only peoole that nave been in tne Congo that I ever oe 24 met, 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DBocld:32246514 Page 101 . ;
1 that you knew? 2 mr. esSoinosa i xnow Tecey «snitenouse, but I would like 3 you to tell sme who ne is. 4 Nr. Hornoeck. de is a pilot. 5 mr. Espinosa te 1s 4 cilot? § Mr. Hornbeck Yes 7 kr. Espinosa. I know the name.and I know the guy for 8 sure, i) Hr. hornoeck. Sle was very friendly with Norman Rothman? 10 Mr. Espinosa. I can't even picture tne guy, but I know 11 met the guy. 12 Mr. Hornbeck. Did you, in Cuba, ineet a Joseph Merola? 13 Mr. Espinosa. Ho. 14 Mr, Horabdeck. Did you know a Jorge Alonso Pujol? 15 mr. Espinosa. The old man or the son? 16 ur. Horndoeck Pid you Know tne fanily? 17 Mr. spinosa. I know the Old man was vice gresicent of 18 Cuoa curing the Prio time. 19 tir. Hornbeck. Did you know his son, Jorge? 20 Mr. Espinosa. Ko. I nave neard of him but I have never 21 met Ait. 22 Nr. Hornoeck. Juan Restoy, Cesar Restoy? 23 Mr. Espinosa. Again i think tne name tells me something 24 Mr, fornbeck Jose Aleman? 25 tr. Espinosa I met nim once. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DocId:32246514 Page 102 SMe OTR TT OAL RPE BMOATEOS BINT MINI MAJA QLHAIATAAL MC INOAIA (TNO REALDIAB
HW 54756 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 23 24 25 DoclId: 32246514 a 1 wir rOrncece« - t a r Teas = or vite “UN LTed Statues wr aScinosa be na Ik po ) rt) with Cuosela, Fountainodleau and we anc ne nad a nicxnati mr. morabeck. tnat was? hr. ESpinosea. Mr. flornbeck. between Cuda and the Mr. Espinosa. Miami another time Finaliy toox off. Mr. Hornbeck, some business? “ir. ESpinosa. mr. Hornbeck, Mr. £Spinosa. Mr. Hornoeck. Mr, escinose., Mo. Hornbeck. RUS . mr. aspinosea. started witn tne inv nO, iv was in — > No van you tell us whether that was in Cuds 9 now Major Paez. .I went Stayed in one notel owned by Josée Aleinan @€, and I only met him once. Can you tell us aoproximately whet year It was 1959, Maren of 195% were you traveling curing the 1959 year United States? Yes. I went to Miami then and I went to. and two times or three times before [I 3 ali ct D ren) “ cD le2sure trios or was there Just pleasure trips. ' bic you Know Orlando Bosen? HO. Have you ever heard of Is ne related Pippin Bosch was president of Sicard ms nere.was 2 m ~ 1 olay ; 4 ai 7 rod Boscn wnen tne whole thing ~ 1 a a] + + + > = > ~ nr oat asion and tne training cf tne Cuoans, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page ANA, stacst. $.wW. 2EPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 {202) 564-2343
= 5 wae 4 oo o a y _ oe ro a ao 4 ~ bir ~ 1 although ne was under the ausrices of the CIA, n2@ was Sucvosed - Y Pod = - a we VY wc, ad = os ~ Pos > 7 2 to ce fighting for @ group called ‘Tne Front,” and The Front rad como 71 n a - oe < < m .. 3 were five different cecple, representing five different 4 organizations, who were united in order to get enough peosle 5 to co it, and Bosch was one.of them. 6 Mr. mornbeck. This is tne Pippin Bosch? 7 Mr. Espinosa. He is not the one that you are talking 9 tir. mornoeck. Luis Pasado? 10 Mr. Espinosa. lo. im Mr. Hornbeck. Luis Balbuena? 12 Mr. Espinosa. No. 13 Mr. Hornbdeck. Dominick Bartone? 14 Mr. Espinosa. Ho. 15 Mr. Hornbeck, Tne record will reflect that the witness 16 is snaking his head negatively for all of this 17 mr. Espinosa. Yes. 18 Mr. Hornteck. Kapheel Garcia Songo? 19 mr. Espinosa. Yes. 20 Mr. Hornoeck. tow did you Know nim and when did you 21 first meet nim and what was your relationship? 22 Mr..Espinosa. There are two orothers; that is Raohael @ 23.and there is Jorta. 24 I used to have 2a girl friend when I was very young in a 25 Cuda and her cousin was the girl friend of Jorta. Jorta nad a Oo ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 104
‘ = a o - ni - a “ = | very vac German snepnerd he wanted to get rid of, end ne gave - be on ~ i te 1 nt o v Lya ww - 2 it to wie, and I said Cxay, i will take it ang I nec tris w O o met sy t + = = eae tt 2 =} ,Or many Years, anc tnat Was Tne |x! > 0a cr A ¢ Nn m C3 with aim. Through him I met his crother, Reshael, who used to 6 . mr. Hornoeck. Is this just comnon knowledge, or did you 7 know this personally? 8 tr. ESpinosa. It was common knowledge. I think he is 9 coing some tiine in jail right now. 10 Mr. Hornoeck. ie is doing time in Spain now? 11 Mr. ESpinosa. Yes, for passing false dollars 12 Mr. Hornbeck. Counterfeit money? 13 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 14 Mr. morndeck. when did you near that information? 15 Mr. espinosa. Wany years ago; five or six years ago, or 16 mayde more. 17 mr. dornbpecx. Can you tell us how you heard the 18 information end any details you may have heard? v8) 19 mr. Espinosa. If can't recall who told me tne story. An¢ 20 this was at the beginning when I went to Spain. 21 Mr. tloradeck. which would nave been aoproximately wnen? 22 Mr. Escinosa. That would oe 1972. 23 Mr. Horadeck. And you neard tne story tnen? 24. Mr. fsoinosa. That Ragnael nad deen there and that ne 25 nad ten or fifteen thousand dollars in on2 hundred do ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, MW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 05, STREET, S.W, REPORTERS SUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 384-2348
1 notes and he was vassing them for two or tures cays ana then 2 they got him anc then ne got a Lunch of years “in geil 3 mr. iiornbpeck vic you near whetner or act Trefficentes 4 nac ever tried to help him in Spain? 5 wr. Espinosa. vO, cut IT heard that ne ned something te 6 do with Trafficante 7 mr. dornbeck. That the counterfeiting had something to 8 do witn Trafficante? 9 mr. Espinosa. This is wnat I neard, tut you know now 10 people talk to me. It is not very cifficult to figure out if 11 Raphael was Trafficante's lawyer in Cuda; now ne gets caugnt 12 in Spain with counterfeit money. There is a likely 13 possibility of the money came-from the. guy and this is what 14 people are speculating ebout, or told me at the tine. AS 15 Mr. Hornbeck. when Trafficante Was in Cuca, he was 16 arrested sometine in mic-1959, and did you ever hear thet? 17 Mr. ESpinosa. ho. ‘18 Mir. Hornbeck. Did you ever near that Mike Nclaney was 19 arrested in Cuoa? 20 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, 21 Mr. Hornoeck. Can you tell us What you heard and from 22 wnat source? 23 Mr. gspinosa. All I know is that ne was living in the “ee 24 country ana he was going back to Miami and he was livin 25 tney took nim and they put nim in jail for two or three cays p J 5 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DocTd: 32246514 Page 106 | oecee ew 2edNaTERE ALIMING WASHINGTON OC 70024 (200) 584.2345 ay
HW 54756 10 11 12 3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2] 22 23 24 25 DoclId: 32246514 rioracecn, ur. tfornbecx. Wit you? Mr Zspinose. Mr. Hornoeck. Mr. ESpinosa. things don't really Mr. Hornbeck. Mr. ESpinosa. used Miami Beach; two or Mr. Hornbeck. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. tlornbeck. mr, Espinosa. nmornbpeck. mr, mr. Espinosa. Mr. clornoeck. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. cornbdeck. “ar. Espinosa, mr, .riornoeck. cireumstances?’ QO On Pid lke ever contact you? To vid ne ever discuss how he got 03) yt + - Oo a cr ca) C HO. He never told you? Iam sure that I have heard the story, but register after some years. Dic you know Marcos Perez Jiminez? I. never met tne zu although I know he Oo a oa to live very close to Mike's house in Pine Tree Drive in three houses away from Mike. bid you ever have a chance to meet him? No. vid you ever hear whether or not ne was activities? Yidcel? Miguel: Juarez? Yes, I Know nim. HOW cdo you Know niin; ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC; Page ANF, street. S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING. WASHINGTON. 0.C. 20024 (202) 384-2345
1 er. Espinosa. He used to ce either the manager or the 2 owner of the 21 Club in navang, anc ne was always mixing wit o 3 big people somehow 4 Mr. Hornoeck., Dia ne have any relationship with any of S the American gamoling interests, if you snow? 6 Mr. 2spinosée. I am sure ne aid. 7 Mr. Hornbeck. Anyone you ever saw him witn? 8 Mr. Espinosa. No, but he was elways hanging around witha 10 Mr. Hornbeck. Eugenio Leal Pozo? 1 Mr. Espinosa. HO, 12 Mr. Hornoeck. Joe Rogers or Joe Stassi? 13 -Mr. Espinosa. lio. 14 Mir. Hornbeck. Sam Mannarino? 15: Mr. Espinosa. HO. 16 Mr. Hornbeck. cEenito Fernandez? 17 wr. £Spinosa. No. 18 Mr. Hornbeck. Did you ever go te the Conmnodore at if Doville? 20 Mr. Espinosa. Maybe once or twice in my life. 21 Mr. aornoeck. At some point you or sotieone nad mentioned 22; that Fidel had a wistress at tne Nacional. 23 Mr. Espinosa. fYes 24 Mr. rlorabeck. What can you tell us about her, who she 1 25 was, and wnen me used to visit ner and whan you saw tneni > ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, - HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page WOBth STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C, 20024 (202) 354-2345
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HW 54756 Docld: 322746514 there. mc. ossinosa [ can’t tell you who she wes, cecause I Saw ner a couple cf tines she was a colored girl, very light in color, and sne wés there, and on two oacesions, it mignt nave deen April or May of 1959, I saw Fidel Castro in the car Outsice waiting for mer, ne and a chauffeur: I don't know whe sne was anc I can't rememcer ner name or anything. Mr. Hornbeck. Did you ever meet or near of 2 woman by tne name of Marita Lorenz? 9) » Oe «i c . mar. ESOL i) OR) ity) Mr. nHornabeck. Did you know or ever meet Larry DeJoseph? Mr. Espinosa. NO. Mr. Hornodeck. That name is not familiar to you? Mr. Espinosa. Ho. ir. mornceck. «hen you nad discussed earlier in your testinony toaay seeing ¢ file, were you referring to a CIA file or an FEI file, cdo you know? Mr. Espinosa. JI don't know if it was CI4 or Fei. I assume tiayoe it was @ Customs file But I looked through it for about nalf an nour, and it was very well documented and , nere ctr tnere were tiany things that =I don't remember tnat are 2 Mr. Blackmer. were there code names in it; crypto names? Nr. Espinosa. Ho. It was all straight names, full names, and tne whole tning, and the nicknames and friends ane so on. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page AOA. strest, $.w. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 (202) 584-2345
109g 1 mr. roraceck., 2 con't want to dwell on Fidel Castro's 2 sersonal life, cut guring tne cerioc tnaet you.were ia flavane 3 and tien for @ few years after tnet when you ay nave nad 4 contacts there, did he have ao number of mistreses or was he 5 oasically with one woman? 6 mre. ESpinosea. ino, he always aha a number of them around 7 Mr. Hornodeck. were tney fairly well known? 8 Mr. ESpinose. I guess some of them were. There was th 9.Lily Gowdy, end I don't know if he was screwing ner or not, 10 but he was cetainly taking her out. If tnink this is waet I 11 knew, out I was a kid at the time, and i am sure the people 12 older than me knew more: 13 Mr. rlornvteck. bid you know @ person who worked at the ® 14 Tropicana casino by the name of Lewis Mewillie? 15 mr. Espinosa. io. 16 Mr. riornbecn. Lia you know ean Aldo Véne Serfin? - 17 Mr. Esoinosa. He. 18 Mr. Blackmer. Did vou know Sergio Acacia ; 20 Mr. Espinosa. ho. . 21 Mr. Blackmer. Did you have any relationship with any of 22 the anti-Castro Cucan forces in Uew Orleans? 23 Mr. Espinosa. No. 24 ‘ir. Blackmer, Or any of the particular groucs that were 25 in New Orleans? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC HW 54756 DocId:32246514 Page TAO erocet en) SESNOTERS AI AING WARHINGATON AC DAMA 1999) RaL-7RES
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HW 54756 Docld: 32246514 . wm. Espinosa. I didn't know there was 2n anti-Castro force in iiew Urleans wr. slacsxmer rou clic train. in jew Orleans 2t one time? Mr, =aSpinosa. Yes, I trained in tiew Orleasrs Iodidn't really train over there. We were taken from Panama and in orcer to send us to Cuoa first we were taken to New Crleans, to an old Marine base or what had ceen closed for 20 or 30 years, and from there we were taken to Biloxi, Mississippi, to a security nouse. mr. Blackuer. Tnis is 19650 or 1961? Mr. Espinosa. This is 1961. This is just two or turee months before the invasion. Mr. Slackmer, Were you garrisoned on the base, Doarded on the base in Eiloxi? Mr. Espinosa. Not in Biloxi; in-ew Orleans Mr. Blackmer. How asout wnen you went to Silexi? Mr. gSpinosa. They split the guys. There were about 20 guys, anc tney Split tnem cifferent ways, and I was there witha about eight or nine guys in a security nouse with @ couple of agents. me. Slackmer On tne base? Mr. Espinosa iO, ao Mr. Blackmer. In tne town? Mr Esoinosa it was 2 security house Tnat is.2 house ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page AA, stacet s.w. REPORTERS BUILDING. WASHINGTON,.9.C, 20024 1202) 384-2048
(a 1a?) 1 hou wes @ " safe nsouse” in Biloxi, and we lived there, seven 2 oor eignt guys and one or two CIA guys for about two weeks. 5 wr. Espinosa. io. . ieornveck. Eugenio Martinez? 7 Mr. Espinosa. uo. 8 Mir. dornveck. Virgillo Gonzales? ) ar. ospinosa. io. 10 Mr. Hornoeecx., Cueto? 14 Mr. Espinosa. tio. 120 “Mr. Blackmer. We appreciate your coming. Could you 13 pssibly give us a telephone number where we can contact you, 14 snould tne need arise, in London? 15 tir. Espinosa. Surely. I can give you my nome aumber. 16 he. Glacxmer. If, in the future, toward the end of une 17 Summer, we snuoulc like to have you at a nearing, would you 18 have any predissosition against aopearing cefore- this 19 committee at a hearing and going over the things that we nave 20 just discussed? to. 21 Mr. £Spinosa. Of course not. Count on me. m4 22 Mr. Blackmer. ro you could leave us wita the nunver, 23 tnen we will be in contact witn you. 24 Tnank you very mucn for your cooperation. 25 (whereupon, at 6:20 o.m., the deposition was concluded.) ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DocTd: 32246514 Page 4Ae  crecet sy ZEDNRTERS AINI DING WASKINGTON 9.C. 20024 (202) 484-2245
HW 54756 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 Docld: 32246514. lle2 roaster prea es one been , gtengees Cenblpiudking Ur SnUnmitA.D ROTUR LER L, uégrola so. Aiderson, snorthend reporter, ac heresy certify tiat the testimony of the witness which apvears in tune foregoing ceposition was taken by tie in shorthand and thereafter. recuced to typewriting under my direction; that s o - ig aeposition is m true record of tne testimony given sy oO we Said witness; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor emoloyed Dy any of the parties to tne action in whieh this Geposition was taken, ana further, tnat I am not a relative or emoloyee of any attorney or counsel employed by the carties vr v v GS thereto, or financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of the action. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page -$43,, sTREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 (202) 584-2345
j CehTIPICATeE OF WOTARY PUBLIC 2 L, clizacsetn cerning, tne crficer whom the Poresoing a : + 7 . tA - ~, 5 os = anf “~ = am 3 ceyosition was taken, do aereoy certify tnet the witness whose 4 véstinony ag: oO m) a “ ~ os toe foregoing ceposition was duly swor;: + 5 oy we; tract imony cf said witness wes taken by ct oa} ra) co @ “ ct t 6 narola &. alcerson, shorthand reporter, and thereafter reduced 7 to tyeewriting under his cirection; that I am neither counsel 8 for, rela ct «D Q ct (6) oo} oO im} emcoloyec oy any of the parties to tne 9 action in wnica this deposition was taken, and further, that I 10 am not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel 11 employea by the parties thereto, sor financial or otherwise 12 interested in tne outcome of the ection. 13 14 15 hOotary Public in and for the Gistrict of Columbia 16 17 My Commission Expires: 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, , Jth STREET, S:\W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024. (202) 554-2345 HW 54756 Docld: 32246514 Page 94 STREET j