HW 54756 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 24 25 Docld: 322746514 Page 37 © the third raid; so consequently we lost all of the planes. Mr. Blackmer. Is that one of the specific reasons why the invasion failed? | Mr.Espinosa. Yes, I. would think so. Mr. Blackmer. Because Castro's air force was able to annihilate the bombers and also the supply ships? Mr. Espinosa. As long as we had a boat we could really take and maintain a piece of land over there until the forces of the Organization of American States would come in, and as I understood by friends of mine who were there, all of the ships, the battle Ships were right there and the carrier and the whole thing. So, I guess the whole thing was that somehow people thought it was as usual, the usual CIA screwed-up thing, and they thought it was Stevenson who really precipitated the whole thing. But nobody -- maybe because they were sympa- thetic, but nobody bothered about blaming Kennedy for it. Mr. Blackmer. So, it was your feeling at the time that the CIA was noted for inefficient operations. In your training, did you feel like you were given adequate and sufficient training? Mr. Espinosa. As I said to you the other day, I did, and 300 guys did, but not the whole force that invaded Cuba. And then this might not have been a CIA decision and might have been a decision saying you have to get the guys over there and ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC;. 300 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 33
10 11 23 r 2 25 HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 38 it is now or never. So, what I am saying is, as I said to you the other day, it is the fault of the Cubans. If we had gotten. in there in the beginning. and so on and so on. Mr. Blackmer. Did many Cubans understand this to be the Situation; that the failure should fall on their shoulders? Mr. Espinosa. They were all heroes, even if they never Saw a gun in their lives. They are all heroes, and so you have to blame things on other people and not on yourselves, and the main reason why we failed should fall upon our shoulders to begin with. Mr. Blackmer. It is your testimony then that you par- ticipated in an infiltration before the Bay of Pigs, and after the Bay of Pigs you were on three or four more infil- trations into Cuba? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. And as I recall, what we are trying to do today is get on the record all of the things we had discussed in our interview with you. . Mr. Espinosa. Let me tell you something. There was a file somewhere with the days and the people that went into this infiltration, and you didn't do that because. I have seen it many, many years ago. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 3ng 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HW 54756 DocId: 322746514 Mr, Blackmer. -Wnere exactly did you see this file? “Mr. Espinosa, I saw it and I was going with somebody who Was a civil servant and he snowed it to me as 2 favor out I know there is a file. Mr. Blackxmer. And this file you saw, where was it, in. Miami? Mr. Espinosa. No, I didn't see it in Miami. Mr. Blackmer. Would you like to tell us where you saw it? Mr. Espinosa. No.. Mr. Blackmer. And to your xnowledge it details eacn one of the operations that you personally were involved in? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, and the persons involved and. friends of mine and people involved in tne other operations with me from the CIA and the whole thing. Mr. Blackmer. Is it your feeling that, as you expressed the other day, that these subsequent operations were merely done by the CIA just to keep control or taps on some of the Cubans? Mr. Espinosa. Either that or to get us killed p g , or the other. Mr. Blackmer. And you felt that the operations them- selves were meaningless? Mr. Espinosa. Not only that; you two have deen in tne army, is that right? And you know, you can understand that. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page 40 AAR Teh OTREST CIAL REDNATERS ANI DING WASHINGTON AC 20094 1909) 35.9245
10 11 12 13 16 - 16 7 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HW 54756 ‘Says outside, 14 DocId: 322746514 Anyway, if you have a Dox of 30 caliber machine gun ammunition, you know exactly, you know when-.you o Ke) ean the ammunition dox you. are going to find the required emmunition and wnen you start going on the operation and you open up 2 30 caliber munitions box and you start finding 45 calibder ammunition, you start wondering because these things come like that. After a few years they take them away because it is like deliver them to you fron me a prescription in a pharmacy and they an army camp or from an army depot or something, and what it believe me, you will find inside. If you do not find inside what is outside, if you do not find it, you wonder wno changed it and why was it changed? Mr. Blackmer. How large were the groups that you infiltrated witn? Mr. Espinosa. Small groups, three or four. And were you. paracnuted in or were you Mr. Espinosa. We were always taken in by. sea. The name of that Frank I mentioned before it Frank Pernardino. Mr. Blackmer. This was an individual you knew? Mr. Espinosa. He was a good friend of Artime. Mr. Slackmer. And Cubdela? Mr. ESpinosa. No. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page 41 FAL RT Fk ATRIOS INI APA TRITON OD ARANDA NAM TH A44e
10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 25 HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 4 4 Mr. Blackmer. In February of 1963 there was a story circulated that certain Russian technicians were hiding in the hills in Cuba and that they wanted to defect. As a result. of this a.man by the name of Eddie Bayo or Eduardo Perez, with 10 other men, were infiltrated into Cuba. They were never seen again. Had you heard during the time this story about the Russian technicians? Mr. Espinosa. It is the first time that I heard of it at the time, yes. Mr. Blackmer.. That the Russians were in Cuba; but had you heard any of them were hiding and ready to defect? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. What had you heard about the Russian technicians at the time? Mr. Espinosa. Well, what I heard at the time was that long before that time, long before 1963, there was Alphonzo Carol and there was Siva -- the last name, and I cannot remember the first name -- and they were in a CIA mission: in Cuba and they reported to the CIA, or at least they said they were technicians or they were putting things together and they ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Op 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
ue 1 didn't «now exactly wnat it was, so they were not briefed for 2 tiet gerticular missicn and so I nave aeard. 3 fr. Blackmer. was this before 1942? 4 “ir. Espinosa.  fefrore 862, yes. 5 Mr. Blackmer. Was it before the Eay of Pigs? sy Mr. Espinosa. Before the Say of Pigs. 7 Mr. Blackmer. But you had not heard of that other story. 8 Mr. Espinosa. The first time I heard about this story n the hills is now. fo 9 about the Russians 10 Mr. Blackmer. .And you were aware of General Bayo Coscaya, | 11 the general who trained Castro? 12 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I have heard about the old. man, yes. 13 Mr. Blackmer. Did you personally know him? 14 Mr. Espinosa. No. 15 Mr. Blacxmer. Did you ever see him? 16 Mr. Espinosa. No. 17 Mr. Blackmer. Were you aware of any ecnildren he way have 18 had? 19 | Mr. Espinosa. No. 20 Mr. Blaeckmer. And you do not Know Eddie Bayo or Eduardo 21 Perez? 22 Mr. Espinosa. No.- 23 Mr. Blackmer, JI think John Hornbeck would 24 like to ask a.few questions, especially adout Cubela and your 26 relationship with him. oO : ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 343 STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 29024 [202) 584-2348
14 15 19 20 21: “@ — 23 24 25 13 43 John. Mr... Hornbeck. Can you state the first time that you met Rolando Cubela and what your relationship was with him. in Cuba? Mr. Espinosa. I must have met Rolando when I was about 12 or 13 years old. because ne used to go, or we used to Nave a very good protestant school in the city in which I was born. And a lot of people from all over Cuba used to go there to get an education. | He was going to this scnool and I.met him at that time, and I was 12 or 13 and he must have been 15 or 16 years old at that time. Mr. Hornbeck. Were you friendly with any of his relatives and was he friendly with any of your relatives? Mr. Espinosa. I was friendly with his father and with his mother and mainly with his brother, and his father, I saw nim and he was always lost somewhere and I was very friendly with his mother and with his sister, Cari. Mr. Hornbeck. After this first schooling with Rolando,. did you continue to stay. in contact with him? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, mainly pecause he was avery good friend of Jose Antonio Echeverria. Mr. Hornbeck. And I take it Echeverria was @ good friend of yours? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, we used to live about 20 minutes from ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 44
10 11 12 13 14 16 16 17 18 19 20 21 24 25 AW 54756 Docld: 32246514 Page 45 each other. three of you attent any schools of | ee QO cr oy om Mr. Hornbeck. .i higher education? Mr. Espinosa. We all went to the University of Havana. Mr. Hornbeck. Were all three of you there at approximately the same time? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, they were there before I was there and by tne time I got there they were big shots already.-: Mr. Hornbeck. What was Cubela's course of study at tne University and what political activities at the University was he engaged in? Mr. Espinosa. It is funny, Rolando started to be a doctor. and he was studying to be a doctor. Mr. Hornbeck. You are speaking of a medical. doctor? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, and I do not know whether he graduated or not and his political activities were very, very. limited in the sense that he would sort of follow the activities of Antonio mainly. “Mr. Hornbeck. And was this their pattern at tne University when you arrived, that Ecneverria was areal leader and Cubela was associated with nim? 7 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. cr _~ o Mr. Hornbeck. What year did you first enter University? Mr. Espinosa. 1954. ALDERSON. REPORTING COMPANY, INC,
1 Mr. tlornobeck. And was the University a strongly 2 political kind of institution? 3 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, very much. 4 Mr. Hornbeck. And you graduated from the University? 5 Mr. Espinosa. No, I was there one year and it was that 6 we nad a lot of fights with the police and shoot-outs and the 7 like. 8 Mr. Hornbeck. What was the main contention between the 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, © HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 46
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 2] 23 25 HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 4 24 L students and the police regime at that time? Mr. eESpinosa. Dictatorship, democracy and the trouble we were having with a dictator you don't like and the Cubdans have Castro now. Mr, Hornbeck. Who was the dictator at that time? Mr. Espinosa. Batista. Mr.. Hornbeck. And who were the students supporting if there was anyone candidate? Mr. Espinosa. What is tnat?. Mr. Hornbeck. Who did the students support or was it just against Batista? Mr. Espinosa. Mainly the last president, Prio. There was a lot of good nature and idealogical politicking in the University, and there was.a lot of politicking done Dy other guys who had been in. the University for a long time and the kind of students who never graduated, professional students, and I think Prio was to butter them up and keep them flaming, and there were different sections. Sut in general, everybody liked rrio and there was a democratic government and nere came Castro and he screwed it up. x Mr. Hornbeck. When you left the University, were Cudela and Echeverria still-at the University? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Hornbeck. Did there come a time when you joined them ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, QAN Teh CTREAT Diks REBANRATIRS ANI MING WASHINGTON 9 CO 20074 (902) AR 7245
10 1 12 13 14 15 16 18 419 20 21 @ 23 24. 25 47 in any anti-Castro activity or anti-Betista activities? Mr. Espinosa. I will explain to you. I was in tne University for one year and I didn't study, and all we did tne whole time was just trying to get something zoing against Batista. There were so many clashes with the police and people shot and this and that. And my fatner took me out and sent me to LSU. TI stayed there one year and then I became of age, 18, and my grand~ father died, and so I decided to quit and go on andtake over the ranch that my. grandfather had left me at tne time. So, I went over there and minding my own business and working and not messing in politics and I used to spend three or four weeks over there or 40 days and then go to Havana for a weekend or tnree or four days. And then one time I went to davana and: Rolando called me and ne had just--or Antonio had just been to Mexico to see Castro and they nad a.meeting in Mexico. So, he said, "We are going to have.a meeting with about 10 or 12 guys in the University and Jose Antonio told me to call you." | Mr. Hornbeck. Can. you tell us approximately wnat year this was? Mr. Espinosa. 1956. This was the day bdefore Colonel Blanco was. snot, the day oefore ne was shot. H Mr. Hornbeck. Can you identify what position he held? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, iNC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 43
20 21 23 28 48 Mr. Espinosa. Who is that? | Mr. Hornbeck. Blanco. Mr. Espinosa. He- was head of military intelligence. Mr. Hornbeck. Under the Batista regime? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Hornbeck. And that day, what ---. Mr. Espinosa. That day Rolando called me and he said, "We are going to meet at the square in the University at 1:10 o'clock, and Jose Antonio told me to call you." And so I got over there and we were about 10 or 12 guys, and Castro was going to come, and he sent me regards from the guy who was killed and we had to start really cracking and getting things done over there, like shooting the big guys or chief of police and so on; and military intelligence and all of that. So, we made three groups of four people each, and I can remember who was there in case you want the names, but I don't think it is of interest to you because most of them are dead, and maybe except for Rolando. Mr. Hornbeck. If you can remember the groups and what targets those particular groups had. Mr. Espinosa. The people who were there were Rolando, Antonio, Macnin and Machado. Mr. Hornbeck. Was that his first name? Mr. Espinosa. No, it was his last name, and I can't. remember his first name. There was a Rodriquez. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 297th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
HW 54756 10 4 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 * 25 59 I was at my girlfriend's, and it was a Saturday, and he called me over there and ne wanted to pick me up and we tooK my car and we picked up two guys and a nand grenade. Mr. Hornbeck. Rifles or ‘pistols? Mr. Espinosa. Two pistols, one 45 and one a Spanisa Start, and then we went to pick up Cardo, Pedro Carbo--tnat is the last name and we zave each other a rendezvous at 10:90 o'clock. I left Rolando at nis home and I went home and I took a nap and [I took a shower and I went there at 19:90 o'clock and they were not there. So, I went to three or four different places where we were supposed to be because the guy was supposed to be there, and I thought maybe I was late or they were early. I thought it was my fault and I couldn't find him and about half past 12 or 10:00 o'clock, I said, "Well, notning happened," and I don't know what happened and I went to sleep. The next morning I just heard on the radio that they got the guy. Mr. Hornbeck. After that particular event, what kind of activities against the Batista regime did you engage in with Rolando and Echeverria? Mr, Espinosa. Let me try to synchronize because then [ nad to leave tne country. Mr. Yornbdeck. He was immediately suspected? Mr. Espinosa. He was not immediately suspected. At the time we were so young and I don't think they would suspect us ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 322746514 Page 51 AAA Teh OTREET Diy REBNARTAAS ALI MING WASRINGTOAN AC INN74 (707) 5Ad-7245
10° 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 24 and they were thinking of old gangsters, and some of his professional Students that were there. Actually, I think that they got Cubela but anyway at that time he was out of the eountry. | Mr. Horndeck. Do you Know where he went? Mr. Espinosa. He went to Miami. I think for a long time I didn't see him and the other people were trying to carry on with their targets, and I wasn't in contact with Antonio for aoout a year. Then, he called me one day and we had a meeting and we were talking about making an assault on the pPresi-~ dential Palace and that is the last time that I saw him. Mr. Hornbeck. Approximately what was the plan date of the assault on the palace? Mr. Espinosa. JI think he got a letter--I am sure-<from Castro that he showed to all of us who were there at that meeting that day, and the letter was sayinz, "Well, after 120 days or $0 days or 200 days that I have deen in tne Sierra Mastros, in the hills, you haven't done anything yet." It was a kind of a letter that was really trying to make him feel like a shit, and I know this was a much more complicated thing and it was only going to de tne students who were zoing to do it. Then, in came people from other organizations and relatives in the otner organizations, the far right, and. ex-politicians like Sandro and people like that and I saw nin ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, iNC, AW 54756) DocTd:32246514 Page .8@7:, sTREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 9.C. 26024 (202) 534-2345
11 12 13 14 15° 16 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HW 54756 DBocld: 322746514 th ow cr day and he said, "I will be in touch with you," an Ou 3 never got in touch with om @ * ‘ Mr. Hornbeck. Did there come a cime wnen Cubsela returned to Miami? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Horabeck. Can you tell us approximately when that Was? Mr. Espinosa. It must have been tne end of 1957. Mr. Hornodeck. And from the period? Mr. Espinosa. It was. tne middle of '57, taree or four months after that time of the Presidential Palace. Mr. Hornbeck. from the period of mid '57 through the ‘first part of 1959, what was your association with Cubela? Mr. Espinosa. You see, everyodody was so burned up all of the time in Havana, everybody had to go to the hills and I had a very good relationship with the son of the actual president of the senate in Cuba at the time, and ne was a very good friend of mine. Mr. Hornbeck. Who was that? Mr. Espinosa. Alfred Gonzalez. Mr. Hornbeck. Would you tell us about the old man first? Mr. Espinosa. The old man was Anselmo Alliegro. and ne was president of the Senate at the time, and ne was one of tne oig snots. I met his step-son when I was in Louisianna State and we were close friends. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page AA gh STREET. SW, REPORTERS BUILDING. WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 (202) 384-2946
dog fols edm ends HW 54756 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 DocId: 32246514 So, I was somedody who could de in Havana all of the time and more or less protected and I could nave tne lioerty to go Dlaces and meet people and pass messazes and Zo back to the hills and so on without much risk of anytning Nappening to me. Mr. Hornbeck. So, wnere was Rolando Cubela during this period then un until the time when Batista left the first of January? Mr. Espinosa. He was in the hills all of tne time. Mr. Hornodeck., What was nis group and wnat relation did they have with tne Castro group? Mr. Espinosa. They nad no relation at all. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page 4s, STREET. S.W. REPORTERS SUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C, 20024 (202) 364-2245
1 mr. foracecK, Tansy were fignting independently? 2. Me. Espinosa. Independently, and trying to get to Havana. 3 oefore Castro cid, and so-you nave an idea what the realities if were at the time, when Castro.sent Che Guevara from Oriente 5 Province to tne Province of Santa Clara. And I think that he 6 hac 150 or 150 wen. 9 and it was not only tne stucent group; there was also the 10 people of the Willian “organ group which were the taira front 11 and they alone with 2,500 people. But Castro wanted to have a 12 chair over there somehow to control the situation, and one of 13 the things, or the orders was to dispose of Rolando Menoya. 14 Mr. Hornbeck. You are saying one of the missions of Che 15 Guevara was to eliminate or kill both Menoya and Cudela so 16 tnat Castro would be the only leader? 17 Mr. ESpinosa. fYes. 18 Mr. norndeck. How cdo you have that information? 13 Mr. ESpinosa. from Cusela and from other peoole who were 20 there at the time, cecause the thing is that somenow they , 21. found out by some of the students from the University of 22 Oriente wno were with Castro. 23 Mr. Hornoeck.. was there any confrontation with eitner 24 Che Guevara or Castro? 25 Mr, ao : 2 5 : , et a b ar awn soinosa. Chne arrived tnere and took nim and ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, AW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 3607th STREET, S.\W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 | 18 19 20 21 23 24 25° % 08Cx ana forth fron vriente to Santa Clara until the guy was relieved, out he was caree or four Gays under custody. Mr. nHOornbdeck, Approximately what time period was this; can you pinpoint that for us? w Mr. e£Spinosa. This would have been October, September or Octover of 1958. Mr. Hornbeck. Batista leaves Havana anproximately the LO first of January of 1959? Mr. ESpinosa. Yes. Mr. Hornbeck. What arrangements, if any, were made between the various groups tnen? Mr. Espinosa. . Nothing. Mr. Hornbeck. How did it come abdout tnat Fidel Castro taen came to power anc Cudela and Menoy2a and some of the otner leaders did not come to pcewer? Mr. ESpinosa. 12 con't know. I always wondered 2b5o0ut that myself. And as 1 said to you, I used to de in the nospital room witn Rolanco at the time wnen ne was wounded, when he was going tnrougn the operation with tne arm, and I Was tnere wnen Castro came to see nim, and when Che came io see nim and Raul Castro came to see him, and when tne other leacers from the stucent groups came to see him. Tney nad discussions about this and, first of all, they were all of the people, wiser people, ocetter trained by the Communists of ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, iNC, HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 456 WAR Tre STREET Sty REPORTERS QE DING WASHINGTON O.C. 20024 (202) 354-2345
10 11 12 13 14 19 20 21. 23 24 25 HW 54756 rriends got killed-on DoclId: 32246514 .o) a =} SS. ane - AS 12 0) On a Ourse, and they Knew exactly what we were doing and we ¢ KNOW exactly what we were ccoing v@ were Pigntins a war once Une war was cver, we cidn't know what to do end we d nave any ambition of power. Ang when I say “we,” I don't count end I am talking tne people who were tnere; mostly I am talking about Bolas and there was no ambition cf power or any of that. Ther just to get the Suy out and that is it. Our aim was to stop, wnen these people's aims were very well planned for far rir. clornbeck. Did there come a time when you and Cubdela Split as to your views of Castro? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. x Mr. Hornbeck... hmapoened, and can you describe how you came apart? Can you tell us approximately when that “ur. ESpinosa. well, as I said at the beginning, when aA Came into mavana, inmediately tney callec me and they said, "Rolando is going to de nere in about one hour and they want you to de at tne University." de came in 15 or 20 minutes late, and ne said to me, I think we are going to nave a lot of croolems witn Castro and = a the 26th of July as the attack of the Presidential and Antonio was killed that day, and not there but anotne part of. Havana, ang we went and took tne Presidential Pal aS a gesture and a symooliec thing. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page Oe aencet cia SEDNOT=EDE DIN AINIG AIA EUIMGTAL AR fARtA Hann Saa7Ads r Dalacea i alaceé, a cond Symbolic tning, because so many of our cr ct .
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 56 Utlme. Taen I started aisaz Tne first two or three months we were together all of 5S T 7 guess IT was &@ wise ass at the time, especially. about the \ where ne had to take aosolute cower over everything and we io -were getting cull shit in return. And the fact was I never liked the guy; and as a matter of fact, I nated him, and I never Knew nis politics vecause I don't know. Some people find out their wives or “a girls are fooling around with somebody else for two or three years, and just from the beginning I thought this was going the wrong way. I started having arguments witn Rol 199) ndo and asking for explanations from him, because this was not what we fought and not what our friends died for, and."So you @re decoming accomcelice of Castro and I cannot understand this.” He said, "Why do you say that, and wny ere you putting with this?" I said, “And they are taxing land away from seople and tney are shooting soldiers who never snot in the whole war just shooting tnem and there was no trial, and I have. seen trials and they were mockeries, and whether they were guilt or not guilty, tney got snot and that is it.” So ne wouldn't give me the rignt answers, and ne would say, ‘well, there is a revolution." And I said, "I don't understand that, Rolando, and I don't understand it ALDERSON AEPORTING COMPANY, INC, ~~ WI So for an
HW 54756 1 don't 2 being 3 somet 4° his b 5 6 starte 7 it. 8 anda 9 me," 10 14 12 13 14 15 16 Septe 17 18 tne U 19 came 20 Cudel 21 | 22, the t 23. otner 24 idea (25. Docld: 32246514 Oy (oP) Ce ay nine tint C ane - - - understand the tnings that are happening, and you are an accomplice cecsuse you are in a sosition to ao ning and you are noe going anything, and you are claying all game." In the deginning we discussed these matters, and then we ed getting very close in, and I really didn't understdnd And to the point one day we had a discussion in ny nouse e told my mother, "when your son goes to jail, than call and I saidc, "I won't call you.” Mr. mornbtbeck. Rolando said that to your mother? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Hornbeck. Approximately when did you léave Havana? Mr. Espinosa. I left Havana in 1959. Mr. Hornbeck. #hen in 1959? wr. Espinosa. I don't know if it was October or mber or tovember; somewhere tetween Cetober and Decenoer. Mr. dornoeck. During the period of time that you came to nited States and went to train in the cey of Pigs énd cack to the United States, did you have any contact with a? Mr. Espinosa. Well, some guys and myself, we thougnt at ime we were allowed to go to Soutn America and. I and some S were ZOing to Panama or Nicaragua, and SO we got tne -- and there is one tning I forgot to tell you. AD the. deginning when things dezan, there was 2 lot or ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page 59
10 1 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 24 25 _ copule of hundred of Tnompson sudmachine guns, and some mortars, a 190 tank gun, and somenow all of the things were nidden by ime. Kolando told me to hide it in a place, that we were going to need it one day. So I nid it in my house, and we had a eo big tnat-.when tney came lookin am very cig nouse, they couldn't find it decause it was like an old castle and there were like nidden doors, hidden panels and tnings like that. They came looking for it and they didn't find it, and so about two or tnree weeks after that I put the wnole thing in 1) truck and took it to @ resort very near to where I was born, in Varadero. So [ took it over there and we decided, a few guys who were going to cdo something, go to the hills or do somethin cr and we came out with tnis idea to go to some otner country and do sometning so we could get away and cover our activities. we Zot caught. Mr, Hornoeck. By whom? Mir. Espinosa. By Castro. a@ got caught, and we- were taken to Military rt) “5 oO Intelligence, and tnere were about six or seven of us oS J ? ALDERSON. REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 60
10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 . 24 25 13. On Cc they got all tne weapons. Someone scuegled and taney } ey f 2 i a Nanas in nA ~ nA nA ~ ac infiltratec somecocdy in the groups Ang | Ggon’t Know what was ; ; fod uy an rs ; ta = ; Se aw . elA mS ome g0ing to happen, dut it was a little bit seary at the time, and so we were uncommunicated for several days and we wer questioned, and we were stickin Vi in on tO Our story we zoing to Guatemala or someplace else. And I can't remember now, ene ROlando was in Spain and my motner called nim end he came over and ne got us out. Mr. Hornbeck. Was tnere any particular reason he was in Spain at tnat time? Mr. Espinosa. He was a playboy. Mr. Hornbeck. It had nothing to do with Castro? Mr. ESpinosa. No. He went over there to have a good time, and so actually the threat that ne made, ‘Call me and I will help you," and my mother called him and ne cane over and ne got us out. ¥ Mr. Hornbeck. After your geriod in the United Stat mM u cid you nave any contact with him?. Mr. ESpinosa. No. The only time I nad contact was when I told you that I went to Paris and these people contacted me. Mr. Hornbeck. I am going to get to that, and I want to establisn whether or not, curing the years that you wereain fal the United States and training for the Bay of Pigs and were in New York, tnat you nad no direct contact with nim and did you nave any indirect contact through mutual fr ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 61
HW 54756 4 Mr. 5 last 6 Mr. 7 Mr. Espinosa. few years? Hornbeck. Espinosa. 8 other cay. 9 Mr. 10 Paris? 11 .Mr. 12 Mr. 13 Mr. 14 Mr. Hornoeck. 15. according to government records, you 16 first contacted 17 tnereabouts in 1965? 18 Mr. 19 Mit. Horaveck., Espinosa. Hornbeck, Espinosa. Espinosa, Hornbeck, 20 your memory as to 21 Mr. 22 and I 23. five y 24 Mir, 25 Mr. Cyr DoclId: 32246514 econtactad day Espinosa. dornbeck. Esoinosa, Page 62 Immigration sometime app wnen you tnem immediately, an —s “s OXlmately what year cid you go to T went to Spain -- you i. WO. I never went to Spain. I told you the Approximately wnat year did you go to I went to Paris in 1964 or 1965. Would it help you to know -- I think it was 1964 or '45, 1 sn your memory ¢ 1 Would it refr nat, £40) came. to hew York and “s oximately in June or Yes. wow WOuld your Hew York trip tnen-nelo first went to. Paris? N well, I came back to New York from Paris and so this must nave seen s before or six days before. Can you tell us why you went to Peris?: No. It was just a trip and I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC,
cn po 1 Paris 2 mr. rioraceck. You were engaged at that time in no anti- 3 Castro activities? 4 Mr. Espinosa. Hotning. 5 Mr. mornbecx. You were not working for the CIA at that 6 bine? 7 Mr. Espinosa. No, 8 Mr. Hornbeck. Approximately when did you end your 39 services or employment with the CIA? 10 Wr. ESoinosa. I would say in the end of 1941. 11 Mr. Hornbeck. When you arrived in Paris, did you have a 12 contact who gave you some information abdout Cubela? : 13 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 14 Mr. Hornbeck. What was the name of that contact? 15 Mr. Espinosa. Jose Trasancos. 16 Mr. Hornoeck. How long nad you known Jose Trascancos? 17 mir. espinosa. All of my life. 18 our, aornoecx. wnat was his position in Paris at tne time 19 that you met him in 1965? 20 Mr. Espinosa. he was working at tne Cuban: Consulate. 2] Mr. Hornbeck. How long nad ne been with the Cuoan 2 Consulate in Paris, if you know? a 23 Mr. Espinos Io don't know, out for a couple of years or 24 three at the time. 25 Mir. Hornoeck. I assume by tne faci ct ct or Ue) ct *) ca) z re] ”™ 5 [) | nw iw ae) ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY? INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 63 , web OTR ET SIAL RM ERAOTANS GLI IAI UA OUENIAPAAL NM AANDA 19ND) GR BOR
On 1 abroad in the Cuban Consulate that he enjoyed some confidence 2 with tne Castro government? 3 _tir. Esotnosa Eo don't Know about that I think at the q 4 time tne government wasn't estadlished mM nougn to really clamo rol 5 down on tne people that they should or should not have in 6 their consulates, and there were so many things to put 7 together over there and it was a4 very oad situation, and 8 otherwise, he wouldn't have been there and they hadn't clamped 3 cown. 10 -Mr. Hornbeck. What information did he relate to you that 11 involved Rolando Cuoela? 12 Mr. Espinosa. He told me tnat née had seen Cubela in 13 Paris; that there was something going on but he didn't want to 14 tell me, and he wanted somebody else to tell me the whole 15 thing. 16 mr. Hornbeck. Is there some reason why ne cidn't want to 17 relate the story to you? 18 Mr. Espinosa. Because ne didn't know much abdcut it but 19 he knew they nad tried to-get anold of me tut he Sald, 20 "Rolando is involved with the CIA and there is something 21 happening, and I think you should sée Robreno. 22 Mr. Hornbeck. Could you identify Robreno for us, as to @ 23 wno ne is and where ne was from and what was your relationshio 24 with him. f bt 29 Mr. Espinosa. S$ name Ls George Rodreno and ne is a ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 64 Cm ee Re RRR RRR Re Re em OM OR ANNA ARAL te FA
ron bk 1 punk. 2 mr. dornoeck., when you say "sunk," do you mean te had 3 some criminal cacxground? 4 Mir. espinosa. I don't know, but he is a delinguent, let 5 us put it that way. I am not a full-time delinguent 2s he is. 6 he was involved with the student movement in Savana and ne 7 knew Rolando very well. 8 mr. Aornoeck. When you were cescribing nim ie) “a 89) 9 delinquent, do you mean he would engage in crime or do 10 anything for money, or wnat is it? 1 Mr. Espinosa. de was. a dad doy; and do you know what oO \ i, 12 bad boy is? He was a bad boy. When he used.to be a Kid, if 13 there was a.dlind man crossing a street with a stick, he would 14 take the stick from the blind man, is that right? That is the 18 kind of thing he would do when he was a kid and man, what he 16 grew up to be. 3 2 © 3 cr 3 3 rat po) a) = 0 7) ny) cr Oo 3 wo om na ) cr 17 He was with Castro's.zgover: 18 the head of some revolutionary triounals and he carried out 2 19 lot of aqeath sentences. 20 Mr. Hornbeck. what was he doing at tne time that you 21 heard nis name in 1965? 22 Mr. Espinosa. I don't know what he was doing in Madrid 23 out [ know tnat ne nad gotten into so many porobdlems with the 24 government in Cuba that thes ust said Okay," and tney out 5 J , J 25 him into prison for something, and I don't know exaetliv what ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 65