(oetor7o-10020] «0s oe ar Me mo: SeSRET 7- ee 15 Noveader 1962 \ MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD - SUBJECT: Conversation with &@r. Rocha and Wr. Lasa After Theic Meetixcg with Er. Helms PERSONS PRESENT: WLuils Fernandeaz Rochs, Jose Lasse, TIME AND PLACE: 1700 hours, 13 Koveaber 1962, Dupont Plaza Hotel, Faabington, bd.Cc, 1. Rocha and Lasa were very pleased and happy over their discusstona with Mr. Helms. Unless U.8. policy . mo _ becomes one of coexistence with Castro Rocha is certain ! the Agency and the DRE can continue mutually beneficial cooperation. 2, The purpose of this conversation wae to define the sore specific poiote of disagreement a6 viewed by Rocha, Be fore starticg Rocha admitted that many of the past disagreements vere sinor but bad become ‘the Ber line” of the DRE sainly because of the manner im which they : were presented by their Miami contact. In short they reo fused to be déctated to and threatened. Rocha gave his Ypf :
8 an 74-00000 il | ' ! 1 “e ce a nT Ri eontact in Miagi a copy of the Ugly Amertean. Be agreed this waon't condusive to good relations but added he vas so fed-up by thie time that the DRE felt it wae imposaible to discuss anything of importance with their contact. any- 3. According to Rocha the following itess in order of importance have caused the most difficulty: a. Military operations: The; DRE foels it has deen completely checked ia thig field, ob- viously the field im which they fee] ard want | to be operating. tn Thoy feel their plans are not cocaidered sertously and alternate plana... .... pate oe have not been presented te thes. They would like to know if the DRE is going to be considered for participation isa military operations (sabotage, e etc) or permitted to conduct their own? Rocha “. clains 83% of the DRE membership in exile are presently inactive, they also have approximately 30 men who have been trained by the Agency. In short @ desire to use the DRE manpover for operations against the Castro regine. Ae reo queated by Mr. Helms, Rocha agreed to present their plane for Agency consideration. gence ; Ua.
14-00000 Be — SECHET 3 . b. Internatiocal Operations, Latina American Operatioas: (1). Administrative; The DRE has 15 men ready iscluding visas to sead to gountries in ‘tatin America. . They need the money and autborizatios to send them. (2) They are presenting a plea to have tro “traveling secretaries” who could travel and check “the activities of the different delegations. They aiso feel there is a need at present for a meeting or reupioa of the chiefs of their delegations in- order to formulate new plans and targets. Rocha feels the old themes of discrediting Castro, be-~ _traynl of Revolution, etc., have lost their stesa and new propagasda theres aust be developed. (Rocha is personally interosted and admitted that even if and when the Cuban problem 4g resolved the ORE wants to contisue ite operations in Latia American, I introduced the subject of continued future long range cooperation. Rocha and Lasa both agreed this! would be very desirable provided knowledge of this cooperation could and would be. limited to the top leadership of the DRE, feariteg they would be rendered coupletely ineffective if
ig: 8 at Samped ee #27 7ge6 of Tackee iuperialions ££ Latin America. I agreed thie would aot be ée- sirable for eitaer party. They clain thiga {a what haa happened|to their delegate in Lima and the reagou for pulling him out. . They ad~ mit he has dose a trenendous job but ‘exparded. ao fast and is doing 60 Buch he bas bees Labeled a CIA agent. Roches adaite the failure of the Liga Rep ia that he did too good of & job, troaicté ae this may gouhd. Rocba clains Peruvians have asked hin why the DRE has a CIA agent a8 Zep in Lima.) (3) Tats discussion brought up the sadject of salaries fcr URESL/A Reps and who would pay them, Rocta aduitted this eubject and Lie de- tector teste have| become the “Berline of the DRE". He agreed they were sisor compared to the importance of the overeil relationabip. I euggested if waa iuconceivablie to ne that ecnme arresgemert acceptable to both parties eoulds't be reached on sack minor details (enprasizing ‘misor to soften his "20 cOn= promise” Berlin position.) I used the lize that SECRET
our Repe fz latiz America were held responsible for the cosrétaation of ail Agetey activity ia! their Particular countries whather their own OF of8 ia which thetr help was anked by another elesent of the Agency. It wae the Agency Reprosentatives: in ‘the LA goustries who felt it necessary to ‘bave the reaponeits itty to pay the salatios of their costects if they wre held responsible for activity — they vere aaked to become involved with. I suggeated I fait it was a anal] concession to make for the benefits ve <caZz included) were doriving from this cooperation. Roche agreed, pot it was evident he wae etill eragy ing his feet ao I brought up the subject of the CRE gereral fund and how 1f the BRE did not pay the salartes they gould hold back the percentages, “voluntarily” from each men’s salary. I guggeated that probably an arrangezent could be reached with tuelr new Miaai contact that the salary eould be split » perwittiag Agency Repa, to pay the DRE Reps iaita the salaries agreed ta, aad giving DRE Eqa in Miami tho percentage they would hold back if they taemselves wore paying the salaries, Both Rocha and Lana admitted they personally felt Fahad h heled SNE |
14-00000 SECTET tais was & reasorable approach s24 admitted they . would agree to such @ solution, but deatred to dtecues it with their people in Miami. (pre- wuaably Manuel Salvat). I made 2% clear that. ‘-¢be above W273 only @ persosal ides xe how I feit ag agreemect’ could be reacovd, tape tar.kicg to Rocha connented that he wan cortaia a2 agreesoat eould be reached and he personally agreed to euch a solutioa. (Lasa puahed Rocha lato stating he also agreed). . (4) Regarding the use of the Lie detector I told nocha { was sot interested in bow the sub- ject “ead broached wits thes but felt if they were at all seriously interested in the security of their orginizatios, I found it hard to believe how they could afford not to take advantage of this aid to keep thenselves from being penetrated. The Agency is certainly concerned over the possibility that 2 group with which ahopoeee coopenting could be peretrated and he, Rocha, ae the group leader ahould be even wore concerned, egpocially when he le rée~- sponsible for the lives of individusla ia hostile. i ft “y j :
14-00000 = 8 ' territory. Rocha stated this concerned hin very much and did agree to test the R/O*e and individue als infiltrated. But, I asked Rocha did be boneatly ‘feel this was sufficient? I continued that he keow es well as I that the communiats were capable of penetrating at rather high levela, as proven by kicwn casea vaich have been uncovered. Further@ more, 1 construed, &@ @ responsible leader he should find it aittteute| to maak hie mon to undertake some-= thing he would not éo himself, after all thie ig a basic principal of goed leadership. This approach visibly rocked Robha especially with Laas nodding profusely in agreozent (This fellow Lasa aust be kept around ag @ prop). Rocha then related the story of how even the Jesuits have beon penetrated, Again, T aaked Rocha to consider the Lie detector tuata on the Bagie of an aid for their own protection. (3) Finances; Rocha expressed hope that we would not continue the present aystem of requesting funds by written gemorandua for each expenditures He complained this involved mich parser work, and many times because of the delay ia receiving approval, sonetines 3-4 aayal, operational opportuatties would be missed. I admitted I was not aware of the
14-00000 v &* po SECRET financial system being used but if they were experitencizg diffituities X encouraged them to accept Mr. Helms’ of~r and set up a syetes with. the help of an Agency expert. They were concerned over not having received the oper- ational expenses for Noveaber and wondered when they could expect thea. I promised to check, | RESTOR E. SANCHEZ TY" /PA-PROP rent a