178-10002-10091 AGENCY : RECORD NUMBER : RECORD SERIES : _ AGENCY FILE NUMBER : ORIGINATOR : FROM: TO: TITLE : DATE: PAGES: SUBJECTS : DOCUMENT TYPE: CLASSIFICATION : > RESTRICTIONS : CURRENT STATUS : DATE OF LAST REVIEW : OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : v9.1 JFK Assassination System Date: Identification Form Agency Information ROCKCOM 178-10002-10091 SCHWARZER-MANFREDI FILES S-M (IV-W) Document Information ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM C. STURBITTS 04/16/1975 113 ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES ASSASSINATIONS, FOREIGN LEADERS CIA CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS CUBAN EXILES FERRIE, DAVID STURGIS, FRANK HUNT, E. HOWARD MIAMI NEW ORLEANS SHAW, CLAY STURBITFTS, WILLIAM C, GARRISON, JIM DEPOSITION Secret 1A; 1B; 1C Redact 02/13/2001 Unknown whether name is releasable. HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 1 8/31/20! J —
ad Pirane (Area 202) 944-6000 WARD & PAUL cm G 21 22 24 410 First Stecei, S.E., Washington, O.C, 20003 25 20! nee Deposition of William C. Sturbitts Examination by Counsel For the Commission 2 (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58) William C. Sturbitts 178-10002-10091 178-10002-10215 178-10002-10279 {(Resumed) SECRET 58 Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
ety eet eee H - Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 én WARD & PAUL tH Cr +o Ch tH cn VG First Street, 5.E., Weshingian, O.C. 20003 25: SECRET | : PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON CIA ACTIVITIES Langley, Virginia A re ey . Wednesday, April 16, 1975 Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for examination by ‘Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities, the witness being duly sworn by thomas C. Hogan, a Notary Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50 o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings | being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. McClenning, and transcribed under her direction. APPEARANCES: On behalf of the Commission: nr ee GEORGE MANFREDI, ESQ., ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ. =, pone EE j Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library I HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 3 SECRET
: PROCEEDINGS | 2 | a Thereupon, Q WILLIAM Cc. STURBITTS, Tew een Cc called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on.CIA Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and testified as follows: | 7 | EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION - BY MR. MANFREDI: | 9 Q Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the | 10 record? | i it A William C.. Sturbitts. i . | : dé. QO Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke some S 15" weeks ago you signed a document entitled, “Advice and z - ; a i < 3 14 Waiver"? | +8 A Right. 16 0) You understand that document is still in effect? i? A Sure. | Lé Q Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed? 3 Lg A You mean the Agency or --~ 2 . G 20 Q That is right. f Cc . ‘ 3 a1 | A Central Intelligence Agency. | & " z 1 ae 9 And what is your current position with the Agency? 3 a8 A I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for - 3 24. Economic Intelligence Collection and Operations. E ; | 7 25 i: Q ‘Ang would vou briefly review for me the history of | | { HW 50955 DocId:32204971 Page 4 SECRET AieJgry piog pjesag wos Adozoloud
fo] [=] 3 a gt rs) g 2 3 d _ < o g 3 < 4 5 6 7 8 9 LO 13 3 12 3 < a - F 1s 2 3 as 3 i‘ LO 16 4 ey 1é 2 19 F 3 20 fa) 2 21 2 2 2a ws WW ~ - an) a 2 a x a4 ? 26 HW 50955 Docld wh WIE & 3 your employment with the Agency? A When I first came in I was in the Intelligence Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on specia which is now the Directorate of Operations. with the operations of the Miami Station? A In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide. took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami. 9 What year were you put on that detail? i A I guess it was 1964, January, I believe. | | Q And what did that detail involve? | il ; | | A Cuban operations, economic warfare. : Q And how long were you on that detail? | | A I was in the Cuban operations for nine years. | | Q Between 1964 and. 1973? | | A (Nods in affirmative.) | | - And in 1973 did you assume your current position? | A Yes, January. Q Now, while you were on special detail ~- to the DOD? A | Yes. | | Q Were you stationed in Washington? | A Yes. t Q And did you commute with some frequency to Miami? | 9) Were your activities in Miami in any way connected " | | | | | I i] [32204971 Page 5 : Ph tocopy from SEC RET ’ Gerald Ford Library KL —
SECRET | 4 \ fo] th 9 ! 3 . i ¢ ~ # Most oF my operations were run out of Europe. a | c a 2 4 a | Q Run out of -- 3 3 | < i . . ‘ z i A Eurove. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones & 4 = were run out of Europe. - 5 . - gs . , . Q Well, in the course of your activities with respect 6 "£9 Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the ? j operations of the Miami base? 8 ; A Yes. 9 ‘ fo) And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami? if re: A Yes, sir. i 1 te . . : . Tie Q During the nine years you were with DDO's Cuban 2 le Ff operations, who was -~ who were the chiefs of the Miami : 12) station? | | & F i 3 Le EN I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he LS ; was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know : A ij 16 :  dt.-Well, I will come back to that. | L7 | : Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze. is 3 9 What years was he Chief? 3 19: A I think ‘Baul was there about a year and a half. He 5 20°) left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's S ” | = | ae Z 21 say Henze was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterlina. g i : ; z 221 He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973. | ui i AS | Q Now, what was the formal titie of the group to which | z 24 : you were assigned for the 9-year period? | ie | g i oo . 7 29 | A well, when I first came in it was known as the : | Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 6
| | SECRET 3 = 1 = a . : = Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald. fs And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations y , Group. Q Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was it attached to one of the area divisions? 6 ; ; A No. Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing |; called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And 8 . = Use oee ne a that -~ when Harvey left, he went to Bhief of-Station, Rome,. 9 - ns an ae and Fitzgerald took over, it became Special Activities Staff. Tt wasn't attached to anything except ~- it reported to the il. a Deputy Director, Plans. le. n . . z ‘ Q And that was Mr. Karamessines? ad ‘ 7 A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it < 4 . ; . 4 . 2 . 3 “= was first created. Helms was DDP at that time. 7k , a Q And Task Force W was created immediately after the 16 Bay of Pigs? - 4 1" A Well, not immediately. I think sometime around -- 16 in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in 2 1g September, something like that, 1961. S 20 Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities : a1 : Staff? 3 ae ® OA Special. Activities Staff and consequently became the = ore - Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went Z 3 24: back into the Western Hemisphere Division. 7 25 E Q And what was the date of that reorganization? Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 7 ‘
Phoug (Arle 202) 444-0000 WaatO ak Poa 2. 20003 Wastinulon, 2.¢ LO bast Strat, S.0., }-4 Cot Po fia Cl cn te nD cn ad tes eo BREE 8 A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then later DDP. Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr. Harvey held after he left Task Force W? A Yes. He was:Chief of Station, Rome. Q And is he still with the Agency? A oh, no. He retired a long time ago. 0 Do you know where he lives at the present time? A Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives. He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. Harvey is a lawyer. there about 1960 which was small, ‘in. Coral. Gables. i 9 Indianapolis area? A Yes, some olace around there. It is in the midwest, . 1 Indiana. | Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force | Ww | i A Tt was the overall Cuban operations. | Q Did the Miami ~-- when was the Miami Station estab- lished? A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down! | | | Q This was, then, orior to the Bay of Pigs? A Oh, yes. 3) Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami | SE ¢ RET Photocopy from HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 6 Gerald Ford Library
seGRET , EB $ L . ; . z Station running any operations against Cuba? a i A You mean prior to. the Bay of Pigs? 2 Q Yes. E A 0 A I really don't know. It was a small -- it was a forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support type I a { 6 . thing. 7 : ~ - : : fe) Well, after the Bav of Pigs when Task Force W was | 8: oe ee eas | “ eastablished, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban | 9° . | " ' operations? ic A Yes. | : ll . too a oo, —_ Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami 2: . Z 12" Station? c u ; i +3 | a ; : 4 te! A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. | s Ls Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special | 255 Aetivities Staff, the Cuban Overations Group? | 16 A Right, except that at the present time the Station | i’ ° has no Cuban operations. } ic. Q I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi- | i 2 if: nated? _ J 20 4 A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down 3 21° there in 1972. It was during fiscal year '72. I think it was | 3 22% in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction. = Ro Q And have those operations been terminated entirely 5 24! or are they now run out of the Washington area? ° 25 | A All: Cuban operations are run out of Washington. i Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 93
SECRET ~ : There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing. But there are some Cuban operations being run out of g z < 2) & Q 3 . 4 < “ 1 the Washington area? * = A Right. 5 9 Is that correct? 6 - A Right. Worldwide. 7 : 4 Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may 8 5 have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina- 9 : tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination Le ° attempts that have been mounted -~ i lit A Right. / 2 12 3 Q -- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your | < i . £ i 3 13 activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any suchj 3 14° attempts? | . | ; i Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say 1S A | 16° attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too | 17" strong a word. | : | ié » Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of | 2 19: any such discussions? | 2 3 ' i 5 20 . A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions, | 3 215 I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgerald = i = | , ' 2 224% in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -- let me put “ 23 ' it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on wv di ‘ . z 24; with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as 3 25 | I recall, he wanted some British -- I mean Belgian rifles and i i . | f “Photo f SEC RET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 10
SECKET | 5 | ° : i] : . 3 1 g . a telescopic sight. 4 i g 2. a ‘{ Q Who wanted them? 2 * A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going 5 on. I didn't participate in it because I was there for another | fal | reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald 7 met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa-~- :; tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. | 9 oo . | : I provided all those files. There are 19 valumes that : 1c ° | oe . we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing “- them. . I think Belin was going to do it himself. » 3 Le. Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself. < ct : te You said there were 19 volumes of documents with = . 4 3 ~“= respect to this. | | AVR . . . | “ A 19 files, manila. | 16 ; ; . . . =e 9 All having to do with possible assassination? | i A All having to do with this whole time period and -- | lo can we go off the record for a minute? | 2 Lg (Discussion off-the record.) | E e0 BY MR. MANFREDI: | = ‘ | 2 zl Q The first knowledge of such conversations that you | z : i 5 i z ee". had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr. a 23 . | Fi “ Fitzgerald? 5 cml 2 24 A I simpiy overheard it, that is right. 7 25 3 Q ‘And who were the parties to the conversation you overr 1 Photocopy from 5 ECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 11 Vee
oom Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 on #> nH 5 @] WARD & PAUL 420 Bisst Sircet, S£., Wastingten, B.C. 20004 HW 50955 DocId:322049T1 Page 12 ind tee as BS LU | heard? | A A fellow named Néstor Sanchez. Q And Mr. Fitzgerald? A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other people. We were -- we nad just moved the Station at that time, : | inf | out of the Embassy into the cdf sd and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations took place -- we walked around the garden and tyat type of thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody Q This was in I A Yes. I see. © | i ! { ' i j was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations. | | i Mr. Sanchez -- was he a member of the military? A No.-.Mes,, Sanchez was.,in the Special Activities Staff. He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with Cuban military+type. Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had receives instructions with respect to this activity from another component of the Government? A Well, let me out it this way. I don't know whether they received instructions. [ have to assume, and I am pretty positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision. And at this time vou have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was overseeing this deal, oresumably for his brother, and he was SEC EL Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
DEGKE! | c g } 7 . ro] ~ A 4 : . z _ part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided oe] q | -he did a number of things. } 2 ¢ Q Were there any other occasions that you can recall in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of ’ ; { ~ Fidel Castro was discussed? A No, not really. a) You referred to this as the first occasion. ° A This is the first -- | | g ~ 2 Was there a second? + A ~- the first time I knew about it or even heard it | i aa . j a discussed. ‘ | 2 te Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently a underway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigation 3 i 3 -= -- were there any other occasions in which this subject came “se to your attention after this discussion in the garden in a A The only other thing that came to my attention was | +e that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight | 2 Le hat he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, If don't know, 5 ) aC but that is what I was toid. | c | 2 cae 9 When did vou learn that? | é 2 Re OR Oh, I would assume in -~ must have been early 1964, 3 -- z ae around February, something like that. 2 As Q Off the record. 7 ES (Discussion off the record.) | ; Phot copy from 5 ECRET : Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 13
bord 2 ” fo} : > a ¢ a nu 2 x a nN 3 a z “ wv Z = a o 2 c o re v ao iw = 71 oO e ; a & 2 Be 2 4 By +5 a Le a ol ~ i? a 3 at sR pene) TA 2 —™ a7 we et 7a - ao Cc o er On } Aw) ao 3 ot = oa =) “A ot - Kae 3 2 5) ~ mA a eee = OR fou ua? Ben aes BM thn 12 MR. MANFREDI:: On the record. BY MR. MANFREDI: , Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by the name of Franx Sturgis? A Indeed. Q Is your Zamiliarity based on what you have read in the press? A No. It is what is contained in the files. Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files, particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division, in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any connection with the Agency? A T have. Q What were the results of that search? A Absolutely no connection, never has been. Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about an employment relationship? A That is wnat I am speaking of. Q Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of the Agency? A No. Q Was he ever a contract employee? A No. Q Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency? A No | Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY $0955 Docld: 32204971 Page id nee
SECRET ak Photocopy from SEC RET . Gerald Ford Library | 3 3 7 ~ : ~ Q Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the a . g 2. Er i Agency? 5 v4 A Not to my knowledge. ~ = Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- ; - . i pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against ~ Cuba? Po a . . ; | A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this i ° Agency. 9 - 2 How did vou learn of those operations? a A Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. ae Q Now, are these recent FBI reports? | 2 te A Oh, no. These go back -~ I know at one time, the a awk : ‘ +e thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop 2 -= over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and 55 by the Bureau office in Miami. | 26 Q Do vou know who financed his activities? | H a? 5 A I have no idea. 16 | Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were + . | 2 -9 indirectly financed by the Agency through -- 7 | J £0 4 A I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of — c " ~ . < " Z 21° ¥ortune: has been. He has constantly tried to associate himself z+ 4 Fd 22 i with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me 4 ao 5 to classify tne file and the way I classified it was "don't 3 £4: destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance." = 25 : 9 Off the record. | u 4 HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 15
saat Her “oes BM Ee 14 2 - (Discussion off the record.) 7 a Z é MR, MANFREDI: On the record. 3 BY MR. MANFREDI: z 4 Q . Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mri. Sturgis to be assembled in any one location? é ; = A Yes. Ihave custody of them. Q And what is the volume of that material? ~ A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee | 9 * . . called for them the other day after the article in the paper, -~ I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and: a they returned them Monday afternoon. is , : “™ Q De you know who examined those files? c-¢ 2 1s . A No, I don't. z 3 = Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts | -© the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? TA a : ‘ . “= A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits aa of so-called information. le Q Ig this information limited to narcotics, alleged a 2? narcotics traffic? % at A Recently it has been. z et 9 Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office g oo, Sosy = in Miami? ; d : A ~ : 3 ee A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami 2 ao to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the a | 7 £53 PBI.: Photocopy from SEC RET | Gerald Ford Library HW O50955 Decld: 32204971 Page 16
ay 4 Cel Phone (Area 202) 044-0000 Os qu WAT bh PALL 2 9004 a oe Washingt, tO. S. « n3 ws BIG baeta Siacel, ray) cn ao ie Ses REE Q Do you know whether or not they consider him an established contact? A No manner. 9) Do they have any -- do they periodically seek to collect information from Mr. Sturgis? A I can't speak to that but the records that we have don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file on Sturgis, they would have to coordinate with the Latin American Division before they did anything since we do hold the file. Q Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is? A A 201 file is a personnel file. it consists of any information relating to an individual appearing in the press as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing. Q Personnel or personality file? A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me. 9 Do you know whether or not there is any connection or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis? A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know each other. They have to Know each other from their days in Cuba. Q Do vou know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever particl- | pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba? recall, we employed Martinez around 1961, i Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library A No. AS 132204971 Page 17 50955 DBocid
SEGREI | Lé | P Photocopy from -{t SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32904971 Page 18 = # I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a & boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations 3 i a S | . . 3 : > : and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run, i sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in “5 any cf these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever i 6 | : - . + ~ "go it on any of cur boats, planes, or -~ anything that beloncs 9 il to the Agency. S I 2) When Martinez would run such an operation or captain | i ~ i . | a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting . ~ | together his own crew? ae . “74 A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a I . i : t af . s - t z 4 | Case Officer operating either out of the -- probably out of- 5 te the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have z ‘ ~ “f : 3 tet some people in the Key West base. But he, Martinez, would receive ~5 | his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. I t | ao t Q Sa it is likely that he could have brought Sturgis it | along on any of these operations? ; | Le i A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, che guy whose name I was- : 2° trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimmer. S 20 i Q . And that would be.for a preriod of time between i él | Shackley and Henze? 3 22 || A Yes. | < 25 | 2 1964 to 1966? | : 24 i A Something like that. | = 25 | Q Would vou describe briefly for me the nature of the | | i q
tH 02) 528 GOO ray) ” tt Phone (Mies an ~I Baa, f—! oA WARD f& if t an io nm et mM HOO F ve Wardaorigdena, @) oul, tebehead, ad 24 | 25 fi Via tases it vl HY¥ 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 19 29 ihe es BEE § i a activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during your -- and Subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during your 9-year tenure with those groups. A Well, there was -- it was an across-the-board intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about the breadth of the thing. QQ. Now, these were all conducted through the DDO? A Right. 6) Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary operations. Were these operations run out of southern Florida? AL Right. 9 And in particular out of the Miami Station? A Yes, QO Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of the country that participated in these activities? A Not to my knowledge. _ 9 Were there any southern harbors other than Miami that were used in these activities? A Well, we had activities down in the Keys alsc. As i.,said, we did have a Key West base. oO Nere there any other bases in that area of the country that were utilized in these operations? SECRET ; Photocopy fram Gerald Ford Library
{Ate 202) bel OOgG CsI Vtsaauas H> oH - PAE fs Wahedr i fed H ha OY b~! a iW at us 19 i: Oe} t 2 20 i { } oe Weosdpetaeghasne, Ga a. a | 1 rae) tn } 24 || | i 1 HY 50955 Docld: Pda d area Ge ho 1o2 5 32204971 Page 20 oie we EE 18 A. Well, not that I would call a base. We did have training facilities for the UDT teams. ae Q What iS a UDT team? A Underwater demolition. Q where were those bases located? A i frankly don't know. They were down along the Keys, along that long peninsula going down there. There were a number of sites. I really can't recall them. Q Were there any other sites within the United States in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people participating in these activities? A Not to my knowledge. Q Where were these people trained? A What do you mean? Q Well, Cubans who participated in these activities. A We trained them at these places we had in the Keys. Now, there also -- some of them were brought up here and traine at .the| | 2 Where is that located? A That is down in Virginie. 2 Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these raids? . A Oceasionally, I would think that -- you have got to understand at this time that we had a great many contract employees, independent contractors and this type of thing. Photocopy f SEC RET ; Gerald Ford library
Gl A & Phane (Area 202) 644-6000 ia) cn [e9) fH kK ae tt! trl a $ oy Weraed2 dk PAN tsE, fe i, a on bo om -2 fe } at aa) qu tO 20005 0S oO ae Watkaaigtou, bie ey ‘ pa ‘ . Slrund, Vade dapat oo is Ses BEES 8 19°: | | Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was { conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another | } entity of the -- | Q DDO? A DDO. fo) Now, the facilities that we have been talking about, training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special : Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special Operations. Group, is that correct? A Well, supervised, ves, and I would think that probabliy some ot the training was given by their people. The i . 5 | is under the Office of Training and -- but I | : 1 would would think that in the paramilitary field that the SoG probably staff the training tacility with their people who havel the expertise in paramilitary operations. e) Now, were the people that were being trained a these facilities basically Cuban refugees? A Yes. Q And at the outset I take it not many of those were American citizens? A No. Q Or had become American citizens. A | tT would assume a creat many have. Q By this time. A By this time, yes. ‘photocopy from Gerald Ford Library SECRET HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 21 t | i j | | 1 people f { i i i i { I
Crt Pave (Ares 202) 544-6600 on 4> fae) Qa “i jy Cr WeAdea) Ww Pata ft > t- on js e3) jen Ne] 200 3 A oy Wabstieiepteaaa, Ps 0, 24 | Vale dss Seeaer, So i 25 | i | HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 22 action. How do you distinguish between those two categories SECKEL 20 | ) At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi ty in Miami? Do you have any idea? probably -- I was trying to think. I would say up towards .a } | | A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it is | military people. Q You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert of activities? A Well, actually one can fall into the other. The : paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was media placement. We had a number of operations at ~- legai- | type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel | seized a great many art treasures. and in particular hevhad a Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings | that were immensely valuable that he tried. to have auctioned | in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them : because he obviously didn't have clear title to them. He was ~- they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was Forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada. We ran leqal operations, got the owners and- had them | } | hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing. | He seized these race horses. He tried to peddle them | | | in Europe and up in Canada. Ne ran opposition against that SECRET Photocopy trom Gerald Ford Library
i=] low] S 7 s ~ vv 4 a) ~ D a & S ii 3 ) 9 - < o z 3 a 4 S wu Fad ~ Y TO <+ cata ~ nm (- r Le 2 gt o 42 Bf _ a : Pa a 3 ait — 5 _o sa 24 im) 9 F 17 a ac 79 a) v 3 = . 20 F 24 = el be] 2 22 * 23 B _ ny + 24 bo = ae = 25 HY 50955 Docld: ry decision of the Special Group to enrtorce an economic blockade. SEGRE! } . 21 type of thing. | i Q These were what you considered tc be covert operatio | . ; : A Yes, covert action. 9 Now, this is wnat you were referring to, legal- type operations? A Yes. 9 You used legal process to harass Castro. f A Yes. Q What other types of harassment activities did you _ run that would fall under this covert action category? ; A Well -- Q Would economic warfare be -- A That was sort of something separate unto itself. his was -~ the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a 3 What special group is that? A Tt is now called the Forty Committee. 9 Is that 302 Committee? A Well, it was a 392 at one time, too. First of all, it against Castro -~ 322904971 Page 23° SECRET it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then went to the 302 and then it had another name in between there and now it is the Forty Committee. 2 All right. We will return to that a little bit later, but what other types of harassment were you running ‘Photocopy from .Gerald Ford Library ns? | |
+ Phove (Ares 202) £44-GOu0 Cr tw on H> fey) rt fed & PADL bh no Vt Aes I te ie fe oH on as Gt }+ ~2 ood mM 26004 » 22 AGO birst Sipead, SE. Washiagten, 0. ro cn HY 50955 Docldr322049T1 Page 24 21 | | ud ten on BK ES — 22 This is what I was trying to think of. eae Q -- that would be considered covert action? | | A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement, | z media placement. It has been so long ago I really don't remember. I know we had a number of things going against him. a Je used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply, particularly when they were this type or thinc. activities, the legal -- well, I : Q Let's talk about each of those in turn. You said you used moral suasion. What kind’ of activities are you 3 referring to? A. Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we were the catalyst in this wnole thing and we had the legal | I don't know how you would phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control reguiations of the Treasury Department, the Trading with the Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of! f Commerce, the Export Control people. I. guess as you are aware, Cuban industry was totally U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where we would find this out through ail-source intelligence, we | I or the Treasury people or the Commerce people would go to the Sec REL | Photocopy from ; | Gerald Ford Library
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 tH 4 tH! ay) j—! Gt ee) Rien WARO B&B PARSE t-! Oy t-? o>) TNO Foret Street, S.E., Washiuigton, G C. 2900's en ao HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 25 . SECRET 23 these American companies and ask them to tell executives of their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts and the other things that Castro might need. We had the Department of Commerce -- we identified 600 of the major U.S. companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry. We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600 manufacturers and ask them to cooperate with them in denying any spare parts to the Cubans. This was a fairly concentrated effort to really isolate them. Q All right. And that is what you were referring to as moral suasion? A Yes. Q Anything else in that category? A Not really. None that I can think of... 9 Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign companies? A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless, the point in case being|_ ds We pulled all stops i jrurned us down to’stop that sale. | flat. 2 Now, did vou attempt to reach any other sources of supply? A Well, we also had what we call a preemptive purchasin orogram. If there was 4 Single source of supply for a . Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library particular item we would qo in and buy it to deny the Cubans
a ie oe BREE 8 24 Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic Yes. -- domestic market? No. It would be re-sold abroad. In all cases? The cases that = was associated with, it was all What kind of purchases were made? —s 3 : 3 ' the market. : i Q 5 = | z a 9) 5 A 2 ? A / sold abroad. 9° 2 1s Ax Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased Lk. vo, - gome Bright Stock| | ; Le 3 9 What? P Le ; 3 A Bright Stock. ° ~ 2 What is that? a A Heavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of br. : . . . . . ‘ “* her energy comes from oil, this was considered @ critical q ~ ; - . . . - ~ commodity. Bright Stock can be ~~ oh, it is almost Like tar, +s melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this 12 . _ oe . 3 ~" type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So x es we had an oil firm purchase this Bright Stock from a dealer for 3 ee _ which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventually * ee solid in Africa. 4 a ce ee } ‘Do you know of any sales of such materials that 2 od were made within the United States? Resales, I should say. “e A No. Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library BW 50955 Docld: 322704971 Page 76 oe __. t t | | | | | | | | i
i aad tea Sos 3G ES g | Q In addition to preemptive buying were there any wn “t a 2: é || other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of < 5 2 | supply to Cuba? & Bo A Well, we did provide 3 in collusion with the Commerce ~ and I would assume the Special Group, we had Department, "| Q “And vou had them i 7 A Well, we had our agents. Jett . over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of fact, ~- "the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Des. , 12 4 , i 5 ““: and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this. | a _. if ! ar a) Mr. Dillon? ; ° a A No. He was Secretary of the Treasury. -o Q But -- 7 ; ae A But you must remember that these American -- wT Q Mr. Connors? a A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers, 2 i well, their places were nationalized and they were only too 3 8 ' St " : ene , - . . ; Y =“ i happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona - 3 al i! fide business. These things were transshipped through two 3 a0 i . So ~ 2 ae i or three countries, finally wound up in Havana. i a) _ ; * 23 ij ; 3 a0 2 You referred to some extra-legal activities. aa a4 ‘| ; } : a A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what * a9 i we did. I just can't think -- I remember this was on one of | SECRET Photocopy rom Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 27
aad a “ns Bs 26 < our activities but I just can't think -- I remember this was a Pa a on one of our activities. but I just can't remember what the z Eo 2 : extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know it was one of the parts of the program. ; Q This was illegal activities? Is that what you are " referring to? 7 A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they ~ weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps they were in a 3 gray area some place. “~ Q Well, whose laws are we talking about, international ““ law, the laws of the United States? 3 a A ft would have to go back and review the thing. I I Ba 5 really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files. g -. ° “= Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the files? | _- i 7 A I would think probably. down in the Records Center some place. - ~s . 9 Would it be possible to obtain that material some “~ time during the lunch hour? 2 ~* A No. It is forty miles away. ° 2c oa . oy yg: bd “ Q Well, is there some place in the building where 5 2) | Fy ~~ you could refresh. your. memory? = . 2 Re A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipped. i : 3 RS This is talking ll years ago, 12 years ago. All that material 3 - 2 “s has been retired. . = og " : . . ow 9 What category of activity would we be talking about | : Photocopy from i SEC RET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 26
SEUKE! | 37 fo} 3 2 | z when we refer to extra-legal activities? Pe) a A This is what I was trying to think of and I can’t | g think of what it was. I know extra-legal activities was one | od . : parts of the program that we were involved in. | ~ I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might! tell me what that is. Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to i s , | come back to that. i " A All right. 7 oO Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal | “~ ss setivities that were run against Castro? | aor , ° i 3 “se A Well, the veople that would be knowledgeable are | 2 _ , i" “ probably retired and I was running the program. So I ran 2 . 3 + the economic program. . | ie teas a . ~~ Q Well, these are activities that were run in connection aa with the economic program? a | A Yes. ae Q We talked about media placement during this nine- 2 -" vear period... Toe what are. you referring when you refer to " ore. . . ~ media placement? 3 ae A Well, stories or news items that perhaps our 3 ao = 29 . . * oe propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers |. 3 ee and magazines throughout the world. A my 3 as Q Would this also include broadcasts over radio | - ! é O56 ; { i. ae stations? | Photocopy from SEC eet Gerald Ford Library | HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 29
Bhanu (ékrta 202) 944-0000 ny an > fery ~I nN t i WAR tb PAE tH Cr) -! i> }2 Cor f Hn - (1) t 2BOHnL nN j-4 Worligtean bs 0 1., 0 a3 bh Cl a Hs VEU Dot Strat. ty. HW 50955 Doclid SEVKEI A Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it. Q Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines published within the United States? A Not to my knowledge, no. Q These were essentially foreign publications? A Yes. Q Were any of them published in the Cuban community © in Miami? A No. The intent was to get world opinion against Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States. the radic broadcasts? How were those a 7 What about handled? A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now? 9) Weill, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations were involved. Was there more than one radio station? A. No. We only had the one radio station but we did contract time with Florida stations, a station in| | QO For broadcasts to what areas? A For broadcasts to Havana. 9 And the station inf was that received also -~ was that also broadcasting to various areas cf the United States? A I have no idea. I don’t know whether they used a particular frequency to cet this out or whether they did it on short-wave or what they did. . ; Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 232204971 Page 30
bt 4-000 Phone (Aiea 22) & PAUL WARD 2000. n et, db. Le, Wastnighens, (0. fabs VG es Cot on oD ae] CA om 4 en a a>) po -2 nn vous’ wo (>) n3 es n3 if w cn SECKE? 39 Q But the intention was to reach Cuba. A Reach Cuba. Q You referred to a station if | referred to as Swan. Were there others? A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in Miami. I think there was one -~ yes, there was one in Miami, I think, and one down in Kev West that they used. Q Nhere was Radio Swan located? A On Swan Island. 9 Where is Swan Island? A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras. Q As far as you can recall, were there any other radio stations in the United States that were utilized to oroaccast propaganda materials toward Cuba? A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that I recall right now.. Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or groups affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American public to support those’ propaganda activities? a No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of thing was fully subsidized by the Agency. re) Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty? A Oh, yes. 9 Was anything of that nature done in connection with sre SECRET = Photoconytrom | ‘ Gerald Ford Library BW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 31
a he Ge BRE 30 | a Cuban propaganda? 5 e A Not to my knowledge. | i ° Q And that would include both the publications and the | : & radio? i 5 EN Right. | Sox Q Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of i: 7 : moments . Could you describe for me briefly the type of | 4 8 ‘economic activities that were conducted against Castro? | 9 A | Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the i le: reqime, his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We | ui! worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in te | the State Department and, well, for instance, in those days, I | 2 13! guess it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumped from | < 14 about a penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like | 154 that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -~- Fidel kept io | 16 | saving that he had such a poor crop and this type of thing and 7 we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poder crop becausel 1a! some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttihg | - 19: this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a4 day, 20 | this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was: : 2 | lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any | = i . : 92 | place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place he | ; 23 | could. . . | i oa | So in cooperation with| | = iI | = zs Il | we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a Photocopy from | I ; SECRET Gerald Ford Library BW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 32
SEGRE! 31 3 a z 14 - 2 ' real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting. z 2 & It was this type of thing that obvicusly he was | 5 ~ : trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any ve money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn't! qi want him to get the exchange. So it was those types of “oh activities. 7 ; . Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S. 8 _ . ot = companies enlisted in that effort? ; g ; A Oh, yes. 7 2 In what manner cid you use U.S. companies and Li : . . businessmen? i 12 | 2 ~™ A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A great ° a many ~= the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the 3 “= American community, by American bankers, and obviously they i ier) ana , . , . ~ ’ i “ lost everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is the 7 | 14 , . . . . | ad lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, this 7! type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 target. So it: =e was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen. - i? a) What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain from & MN a . : ! . «0 these businessmen? ‘ 3 ei A Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you z 5 5 cease a . . og oe i 2, Ee know, the market conditions were, why the price was rising, if to : 23 "we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would 3 _ | Z «4. happen to the market crice. This type of thing. = aS ii Q Thev were used as consultants,basically. § E ¢ 4 Ef Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library . BW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 33
Oe te ie A - 32 3 A They were used as consultants, basically, yes. a . . a 2 z 9 We have spoken about the investment American business a 3 had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American : organized crime -- E A NO. ~ 9 ~- had considerable investment in Cuba? A No.. Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in é - : i, ~ ane : Cuba. I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing. 3 ; 9 The casinos were run -- ~~ A I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force ~~ during the war, I used to fly into Havana cn weekends and this cot ‘ e . Le : “ : 3 type or thing. < : le 9 I understand that. It was fairly well known. ° ~* A It was a criminal element. = 9 The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana. 1é A Right. 7" ~ . ‘ . - ~! Q Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist -¢ the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner “TS . = . > 5 amd whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime? or u 20 A No. = a1 Q Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli? = ee A Oh, yes. 3 od Q When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli? 5 3 24 A Well, I guess it was -~ it seems to me it was either ; 2s Drew Pearson or Jack inderson had an article on him a number . Photocopy f SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 34
SECRET 33 of years. ago. , ° | 2 3 Loe ¢ ii zt at g i 3 Q Was that the first timé you heard of the man's 4 ot) i z oa 2 ; name? ; A Yes, as I recall. | ~ Q Is that also true of Sam Giancana? 64 , _ 4. . A No. I have heard =hat name but I don't know where.. ” Q In connection with -- i f A Not in connection with the Agency, no. | i “ 2 In connection with the casinos or -- ii ; ~ A No. 77 is . . x . ‘ « tm Q -~ gambling interests in Cuba? 2 12 | A No. | x 4 * TR 4 - : : . . +. : : ae il Q You know of. no instance in which organized crime Z ao 7 3 += figures were used as consultants by the Agency? aoa A Only what I read in the paper. f had no knowledge 484 of that whatsoever. vo Q Do you know of any offers of assistance from figures |; i& sof that type -~ - | 3 2 ~ i 3 . | a 2c i Q -- who were interested in getting back into cuba? g ; i 2 ea A No. = i 7 | 3 ee | 2 We were talking about economic warfare. We have “ wt . ; : ¢ , 3 ec ; talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other a 24 types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's — 3 i * 25 i cuba? Photocopy from 1 : SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 35
S o $ : co} 74 » By _~ q “ oF . camel ve a : 3 e n Cs Hl] a : v il = ~ é Sy a i = 1 2 i & g i= we 2 c ~ Coo: re an i ui aT f ay H 1 5 ~ ‘. 19 5 a bee il 2 2 < a i Fs LS a iva ¢ ~ z LS 78 pene TAS mt ™ ae) aA ia oO —_—~— co ios a a oN 4 OM . Cc . = a 5 an 2 GL a Gc ‘2 ti e a oO a 2 Ze} - i W w ome 4 = ao ” a a “ ao A otk “ 2 = c 7 25 it ds 38 HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 36 SECRET 34 A Well, we used ail-source information to find out what his commercial dealings were. When we would see -~ well, for instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a source owned by the General Services Administration, finally got back into. production and nickel, of course, and still is ~~ was in short We had a French firm, Societe le Nickel, who was supply. buying almost;the entire output of the Nicaro mines. And this French firm ex ported to the United States. So we went to the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these le Nickel exports coming into the United States? into the thing and indeed they did. Q ° Who owned the mine? A - Phe U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it over. 9 I see. _A General Services Administration. And it was leased out for operation. But the ownership rested with the Government. So the Treasury simply made the French provide a Certificate of Origin for the nickel that went in -- they export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives and forks, this type of thing, and -- you know, stainless steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply ~~ Treasury simply said you can't import any more into this Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library | i So they Looked
SECRET | s : t i country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter 3 . | of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in : ° New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it * * around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel | ° found other sources and export privileges to the United States | | were restored. ? | You } ae ; _ ; ; ! ou know, it an you just any time you raise 8 | or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that 9 | simple. | , 10} Q Were there any other instances that you can recall ii of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of Z 12 | American business firms? 2 : fey A I know we were in touch with a great many American : 14 | business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could. 15 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. 16 | . (Discussion off the record.) 17 | . BY MR. MANFREDI: | | 18 | Q When we broke for a moment we were discussing other o 19 | instances where the Agency has enlisted the support of America 8 : 20.| business in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of | : al | any other such instances? | : ee A oh, certainly. The Cubans were having.an awful time a : £5 with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. These boats. were z ea powered: with Nordberg engines. Po | SECRET © —_Phetoconvfron | 9204971 Page 37 Gerald Ford Library HY 509545 Docld:
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 16 11 12 13 WARD & FAUL L7 12 19 22 ae) 24 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, B.C. 20003 25 el j 20 | SECRET ———- This type of thing. We did the same thing with -- Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency? A No. Q Were they compensated for the loss of business involved in that activity? A No. No. Q I take it, you received similar cooperation from other companies. A Oh, a great many other companies, yes. Q Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in that manner? | | | | | A No. Not a one. - 9 Were there any legal sanctions threatened against any companies? A No. No. Q Were there. any sanctions. that. could have been brought to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with Cuba? A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with. Cuba. They couldn't get export licenses from this country anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the SE C RET , Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 38
: 7 | Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause ~ ; ® | in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot -~ : ° | foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with 2 * 4 | the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated countr ° | And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried c | to twist their arm. ? Q Other than insuring that these companies refused 6 } to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were 9 | legally constrained from doing, what other types of support aid | | 10 | you receive from American business? ; i ii A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would | 3 le receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, they | ; is received it from Cuba asking for.publications and this type | t : 141 og thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing 25 to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in : - 16 some instances they might call me and I would just give them i? | a Post Office box to send. the correspondence to. 1s Q Any other types of support solicited or received by 3 19 | the Agency from American business? 20» A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one : el . firm we approached, and God knows we approached [I don't know : 22 | how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of si ‘i 298 fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough, z 24 | that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the 3 25 | government wasn’t really pushing Cuba the way it should, but | . | SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 DBocld: 322304971 Page 39
$ . S 1 ot g 8 zg | i i 3 i cs So: 9 3 z 4 A ° Q 6 A 7 the Board 8 9 9! 10 | | 12 | 4 12 i A ¢ i a 13 i os = n a ‘i Q 4 4 < "A ‘ 2 i6 |, i 15 i fF Q iF 16! 1 A 17 | i “Q i i 3 19 Q 3 i g 20 4 A c i 7 21 | = FS | $ 22 | d } ° . Hf ui i : o% jl a eo 1 A 2 ' : 24 | Z | 2 > 25 | A ‘ | © outside of that, nothing. SECRET ns [ tion. There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary. Did you identify yourself as CIA -- Yes. -- in dealings with these companies? Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even Chairman or the president. No problem at all. Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started but didn't really discuss that in any depth. What kind of paramilitary operations were run against Cuba by the CIA? Maritime operations. Is that the extent of it? That is the extent of it. Were there any aerial operations? Not to my knowledge. Leaflet drops? No. Bombing? No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far as I am concerned that is the only aerial activity. That was run by another directorate, wasn't it? Yes. Aerial photography, and so forth. Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 3272704971 Page 40 There wasn't any problem of coopera~
all Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL f es 22 29 24 416 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 25 | il | i | ! H i i ! | SECRET 7 be requested and that is about it. Q And those were run out of the United States? A Oh, yes. QO . Can you think of anything, any other type of para- military activity other than maritime operations. A No. I really can't, no. Q Am I correct that those operations were manned by CIA contract employees? | A Right. Q Which would include Cuban refugees. A Right. | | | | | — involved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs. | de Q. And some:CIA officers? A Right. Q Any other branches of the services, Armed Services, A Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to rememb that: probably down at or, ssi—i‘isCSCSCidi probably have people on-detail from other ~~ from the military branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also had people detailed into the Agency. Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime operations, I take it, was conducted in part within the United States and in part outside of the United States. Is that correct? | Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library SECRET | HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 41
Phone (Arena 202) 544-G000 wo WARD & HAUL j--* tx Washiugtan, D.C. 20003 ALG Fucst Street, SR, HW 50955 Docld: SECRET 7 A I would think. probably the major portion of it was conducted within the United States. Q ‘The Keys would be considered within the United States. A Oh, yes. Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted outside the United States? A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done domestically. Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within this category of maritime operations? A Well, the infiltration. operations, infiltrating agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage raids. That is about the extent of it. - Q Now, when did. these.operations commence? Was it shortly after the Bay of. Bigs? A I would -- 1 think these operations were’ probably at their height during the period about 1963 through, say, 1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December 1968, something like that. Q Why was the program terminated? A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn‘t provid- ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't ~-- economically, SEC RET ‘ Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page 42 , ;
Phone (Areu 202) 544-6000 10 ll 12 13 WARD & PAUL L4 19 al ee Ro r4 910 First Sirect, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 25 HY 509545 Docld: 20 » SECRET a it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were getting wrapped up. We were -- we just felt that the return wasn't sufficient for what the investment was. Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up. A Yes. Q ' What do you mean by that? A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify him and capture him. 9 These various types of paramilitary operations that were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the Forty Committee? — A Every operation received a specific approval from the Forty Committee. QO In advance? A In advance. fe) Now, what was the procedure for submitting ~~ for initiating such an operation? A Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil. or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache. Q You are referring to a cache of arms. A A cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries, whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have one of these operations and the request would go from here over to the, I guess to the White House and then the Forty Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet very SE Cc RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page 43 an nnn eta
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 ray) WARD & PAUL 20 Al 22 £9 410 First Sireet, S-E., Washington, O.C. 20003 to <n oe GRE § 42 frequently ~- they would either approve the operation or say no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper phase for communications and this type of thing. And these things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military agency that had any “involvement whatsoever;,..and the entire thing was coordinated. Q Do you know of any such paramilitary operations that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee? A No. Q What kind of volume of operations are we talking about? A -You are not talking about a very big volume of operations because of the planning that had to go into these things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing they may be running three or four a month. No more than that. Q You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having run 300 operations. A I have seen that. Q Is that inaccurate? A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He may have considered some of the training exercises as opera-~ SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 44
SECKET 3 f+ : | tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one ; @ | of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother é ° | ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go in to | : 4 | see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore 6 : before you go. So he may have considered that all these train- 6 ‘ ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici- | pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba. | Q Now, from what specific locations were these | operations launched? | A They were mostly launched from the«Keys. | Q Any other locations? 3 A Not to my knowledge. z é Q Now, would you describe. for me the kind cf hit and | : run sabotage operations that were conducted? A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against the Texaco refinery. _Q What used to be the Texaco refinery? A What used to be the Texaco refinery. 2 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. 8 ; {Discussion off the record.) | i THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning ; went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery. ul : We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this : type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It = was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was hot copy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 45
SECRET 44 | : 1 | a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as g « much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out i 5 | because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type : 4 | of operation that we did. 5 As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn 6 | some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we 7 | did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and 8 exfiltrations. 9 | Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo? 10 A Not to my knowledge. iL Q Was it impractical to use the base there for -- 12 A Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that PAUL 13 | I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him WARD & SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 14 ia back. He wouldn't walk. -- 15 | MR. MANFREDI : Off the record. “ (Discussion off the record.) 1? 7 MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record. 18 | BY MR. MANFREDI: - 19 Q Are there any other categories of sabotage run out : 20 | ofthe Keys other than what you have just described? i 21 | A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage E 22 | kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained : 23 | sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down ; 24 | crank cases. Things of this nature. £ | $ 25 | One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage | HY 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 46
SECRET is | 22 in the United States. i : | 2 “ : all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our : ' | own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We : ° | contracted with an American firm for that. And we shipped 2 i . i : it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target. ° The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the | 6 ; automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking | ? down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have © everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive l 9 equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because | 16 Castro didn't hve the money to buy it and they weren't going to | extend the credit. | 3 le The railroad system was in total disaster. 7 ; 13 | Soviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus ! fia u 3 14 : the fact that the Cubans didn’ t like the Soviet equipment 19 because they were used to good American equipment. And these 16 were principal targets that we were trying to get to. i” . _ Q In your experience at the Agency can you think of 18) any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run | 1g : _ from a base in the United States? 20.; A No. 21 | Q I know there has been some paramilitary training 920 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 mS A .Oh, yes. 24 jj Q In connection with other operations. i AS |i A Oh, sure. Photocopy from | | | SEC RET Gerald Ford Library i i HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 47
Phone (Area 202} 544-6000 Gl ay) PD >) WARIO & PAUL 19 el 22 23 R4& 410 First Siseci, S-E.. Washington, 0.C. 20003 HY 509545 Docld: 20. SECRET 46 Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that were actually run out of the United States? | A No. Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique situation. A As far as I am concerned, it is, yes. Q Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as the third largest Navy in the Caribbean. A That 1s right. Q What kind of equipment did these people have? A Well, we had.-- honestly, everything from a canoe up. to three to 500 foot mother ship. We had Boston whalers, rubber boats. We had a number of craft in, say, the 27 to 45 foot. length. And they looked Like real tubs. They were painted and they looked like they wouldn't even float but they had’ the fastest-engines in them. They could outrun any~ thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under- water demolition teams. We had a pretty good Navy. Q Did these craft operate under non-official cover in the Miami area? A Yes. Q Were there a variety of covers or was there one firm? A No. Variety. Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library SECRET 32204971 Page 48 . een eee ee i PaElannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnennnnnnnennnnnnen AeA
SECRET 0 ° i 3 1 | Be ; °Q Fishing companies? 8 2 | | as ; | . a } A Well, fishing companies, marine 2 > i KS a i : . . : : 8 supply. In all, I think during the period that the station 2 i @ Au 4; and these other entities were under commercial cover, or non- 5 rd ; official cover, I think we had companies. 6 i | ij Q Did any of these companies actually engage in any |§{ ad | legitimate commercial activities? | 8 | ; A Not to my knowledge, no. | I 9 | Q None of them ~- were any of them in competition with | I - firms in that area? a A These are probably what we would call devised ( . 5 12 | facilities. They were probably registered with the State of q | : : | " 13) Florida and they paid taxes and this type of thing, but if one : ah. ; | 5 1 was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of sc | +5 | existence and started up a new one. | | 16 Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running 1? | these operations? 18 | A Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as i ; 19 |! + told you before, we brought him back and put him under that 20 | contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent } al under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys. 410 First Sircet, S.€., Washinuton, 0.C. 20603 25 came back -- he might come back once a month,.or something 24 25 if he got some time off. . Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library | | i | | i | | | H a2 Obviously, he didn’t stay down there all the time. He | i | like that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks 1 HW 50955 Docld: 322704971 Page 49
sECRET SECRET S : t Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were 5 “ | actually stationed full-time in the Keys. : ° A Oh, yes. Oh, sure. 8 : * Q Were there any operations run out of the United ° States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of 6 sugar or anything of that sort? i ? | A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the| 1 6 | Puerto Rican thing? 9 | A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind. | | o | Would you describe that for me? . 1+ A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of 3 12 | opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar | : 13 |. to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to & : 4 | jt but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or 15 | something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs. 16 | In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the LT | drydock or wherever it was, they had. to remove the sugar and Le | put it in the. warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came % 19 | up with a plan to try to widen the rift between ~~ there was : 20 | a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to : . put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it : 22 | acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the J : 23 | individual, and some of this was done. And then when it : 24 leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar 3 29 | firm buy it back from the Soviets. photocopy from | Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 50
ju a Phane (Area 202} 544-6600 Cri > >) WARD & PAUL } Cx 410 First Street, S-E., Washington, D.C. 20003 nw a] HY 509545 Docld: Q A Q pon Q A 32204971 Page 51 | The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total | \ ; SECRET 19 Bought it back from the Soviets? Yes. MR. MANFREDI: ofe the record. (Discussion off the record.) MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record. BY MR. MANFREDI: Are there any other operations in which crops were -- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba? No. No. Place foreign substances in Cuban products? In Cuban products? Yes. No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel., chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving. There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around with this big plan -- of course, there were a number of experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there. I forget -- several other European and American companies that ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing. Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and -~ so he just put it § 3 Cc R ET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library | | t t t i { ! { j i i had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment—
Phone {Area 202) 544-6000 1¢ | Ll WARD & PAUL jH tN 19: 22 ae) 24 410 First Sircet, $.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 £0 HY 50955 Docld: 20 | el i SECKE! 50 on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type of thing. So he was helping us all along the line and this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this type of. thing. But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we ! didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade Q A Q A Q A t ' i Q | ' . A ‘| Q A and cut off his sources of supply. When was the Miami Station established? As a station? Yes. I think in September 1961. And that was several years before you became involved in Cuban matters? Yes. Do you know of any other facilities of that nature within the United States, Agency facilities? You mean, targeted against the opposition? Yes. A station as such? Yes. No. You have some communications facilities that you really call stations because here again, they are not SE ¢ R ET f Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32704971 Page 52 | _
Phane (Area 202) 544-6000 WARGO & PAUL }~ 73 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 Ay) nh HY 509545 Docld: Q Office of A as far as A Q A Q A Q A countries Q A couple SECKET 51 directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of overseas communications. Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and Security officers, and so forth. Right. But I am talking about actual stations. Operating stations, no. This is the only such station in the United States you know, is that correct? “ Right. And was this station established to deal primarily with Cuban activities? Yes. Cuban-related matters? With Cuba, period. Did it have, when it was established, any other responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities? Not to my knowledge. Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities? Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other in the Hemisphere. When you joined the group dealing with Cuban activities, what was the size or the number of personnel attached to that Station? To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a SEC RET . Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Fage 53
SECRET - SECRET ‘3 : couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the : 2 | Agency, plus I don't ‘know how many contract employees, : ° | independent contractors, probably another 200 minimum. It was 5 ° * obviously the largest installation we had. I think at its f ° height it had over 500 people in it. | 6 QO Full-time Agency people? ? | A No, no, e 9 Combination of contract and -- 9 . A And full-time, yes. A regular employee we call a stds 10 | employee. | ae | Q Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract 2 12 | people? £ | : is A Yes. | 3 14 | Q Even though he was located down in the Keys? fp j 18 | A Oh, yes. 16 | Q And what kind of facilities did the Station have in 17 | Miami? Physical facilities. 18 A Well, they were located on the south campus of the 3 Lg | University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at : 20. the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained : al | unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn : ne well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the ui : a5 Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force. : nA Q Official cover? : 25 | A No. Non-official. ‘photocopy from | Gerald Ford Library | HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 454
Phone (Area 202} $44-60006 12 13 WARD & PAUL 18 19 20 410 First Strcet, S.E., Wasninglon, D.C. 20003 aN) no 4 | | | 11 Q Non-official cover. What was the cover? SEGRE! | 53 | A It was a commercial cover. It was called -=~- the first one was called| Bnd it was set up with a President and Vice President, normal corporate setup. Q Engaging in any business? A No. Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community, A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research activities. Funded -- it:is a giant mechanism when you put one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing, . for. yours ostensible customers, establishing bank accounts. | | how long could a non-official cover last? | i H | i } i t QO Yes, I understand. A So it was a research activity and’ the only people thal ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And,out of this one: thing, of course, then we were running these innumera- ble -other™covers with different activities. The guard force, of course, were like -- well, they wore uniforms, Simi laf to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think that there was -- in the later days at that site I think the Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other Government agencies, in other buildings, of course. SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 55
SECKREE . 54 | Q And this particular Station, then, was under the | S 7 2 te 2 a supervision of the group we have been discussing? : g . ° | A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations. - 4 | Q When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume 5 | responsibilities for the Miami Station? 6 | A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the ? Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western 8 | Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division. j 9 | 9 Is there presently a Miami Station? 10 | A | | 2 o a 13 g | 3 14 | 15 | 16 | i”? | Q When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions 18 were being performed by: the Miami Station? 2 19. A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. I $ G 20 think I have lined them out at:one time <--collection of S : a £11 positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this 2 22 type of thing. Covert action. : a) Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in 3 24 the deposition? 2 ? Photocopy from 25 | A Yes. | Gerald Ford Library | | SECRET HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 56
| SECRET 55 | Photocopy from | SEC Rel . Gerald Ford Library : Q Which of these activities, if any of them were : ° actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami? : ° | A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably : * counterintelligence. ° : Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence | ° | activities in the Miami area? | r | : A Yes, sir. e | Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter- { 9 | intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting | H i 10 | in that area or was conducting in the area at that time? | it | A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as I 3 le | recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a-Castro agent tha : 15 | came in by small boat and when she was -- she came in with a x 3 ia | number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a recep- | 15 | tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation. | 16 The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there. and. i? : we did, too. Our people from the DDO were under | | ns co: When the UEW people did the 3 Lo | preliminary interrogation of these people they had to. fill . : 20 | out forms, where were you born, this type of thing, progr apne : el type thing. These forms’ would be passed to our-peopte who would. 3 Re look at the forms and based on previous experience or what | w I : £o they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they : a4 might have some information of intelligence value, they would : 25 | reinterrogate them. | i | HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 457
Hy Phone (Area 202) §44-6000 10 | ll 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 16 17: 18 | 19 22 S.., Washingion, O.C. 20003 ae) 24 AiO Ciest Siege, 50955 DBocld: 20 al 25 i ad fi Sos BSS 56 It was in this manner that this gal came toe our knowledge. We surveilled her for a long time and determined | | i : that obviously she was receiving messages: and she was ; sending messages, So along with the Bureau we put a surveillante on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it ana | : i indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock | or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found | it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that | | was cen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved | | in. | | Q Were there many activities of that type? Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large A Not really. You have got to remember that the | squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some- : | i | thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega- i ‘tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from --" in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting to Case Officers and they would report on things in the of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau | and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved | | | community, of people they thought were suspect and this type | i in CI activity. | | Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI H k i SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Fage 58
SECRET = Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 2 Qo oO ) : = activities in that area was primarily a function of the over- a 2 & | whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability g 5 i 3 | to properly staff the thing? oO . & 4 | ; | A Yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a lot | 1 5 | I of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section | 6 fi i| of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the FBI overseas is | known as Legal Attaches, obviously working out of the Embassy 8 | the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers | f from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a 1o |i | relationship there that had gone over a period of years | | Lil . { a between the Agency and the Bureau. 12 | 3 | MR.MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock. s | 13 . , i i" : (Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of- ind { : ° "| the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this 15 | || same day.) 16 | a | i a 2 19 | 2 ‘ G ZO | C 3 24 | ; $ 25 | | | Fo SECRET HW 50955 DBoecld: 32204971 Page 59
TCC UGNN ING EUS 44 A | SECRET . 68 flg mbh Prone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 11 12 WARD & PAUL tH Crt 19 20 al $10 First Siseet, S-E., Washington, 0.C. 240003 ra a) HY 50955 Docld: | AFTERNOON SESSION ‘ Thereupon, WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on CIA | 3 Activities, and having been first dulv sworn by the Notary | Public, was examined and testified as follows: ; EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd) BY MR. MANFREDI: Q. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the | i t { t | | i Miami Station . Do I understand that the Miami Station was the | | | | | largest CIA station in the world? | A ©60”i‘“ Phe largest CIA station in the.world. | 0, At its height? A Nothing comes anyvnlace close to it. } 0. I wonder if vou could describe briefly for the record | what the AMOTS were. AMC A Well, the AHOTs were Cuban a Cuban intelligence organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the overall contingency plan that US Government had. Should Castro ever be overthrown, these neople would be the nucleus to go into Cuba and form a new Ministry of the Interior. 0, Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism for Security Agency? A Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and. 7 Phot y from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page 60
Poone (Area 202) 544-6000 cn WARD & PAUL bed & el 22. 235 £4 410 First Siseet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 25 HW 50955 Docld: “ a Ee “ae PRE 8 >Y | 0. And these people were Cuban exiles? A, Cuhan exiles. | | 0. How large an outfit were the AMOTS? i A Well, at one time -- I can give vou the exact figures l i but I know it well exceeded over 199, probably closer to -- | 0 Go ahead. A, Probably closer to 159, something like that. | a Now, would that 159 persons be included within the three to 590 who made up the Miami Station? etter a a en ge rere A No. 0. That was over and above the personnel of the Miami Station? | A, Right. | a These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev? | A. Right. WELL, let me -- these people really were -- ' thev were being subsidized bv the Agency. They were employed by £vor cover! ‘companies, the largest of which was called: | Then we had another ‘ | i | smaller gqroup that did the interrogating and they were under ! H ‘another cover, commercial vcover, -- IT just don't recall what it was. But these peop.e ostensiblv were employees of these whollv owned - proprietaries of the Aqencv., They were duly constituted, incorporated, paid taxes, all this type of thing. 0. The salaries of these people, although paid indirectly Photocopy from SEC RET ‘ Gerald Ford Library . were naid bv the CIA? _ | 32204971 Page 61
Phane (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.£., Washington, O.C. 20003 rt Crit cn 24 | Pao) HY 509545 Docld: 23 | : aod er ous FRE 8 6U A, That is right. 0. And was training provided them bv the Agencv? 0. Oh, ves. i A You said the smaller group of the two groups that made up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct? | A Right. | | a When vou speak of interrogations, are you referring ed debriefings? | A. I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles | or perhaps exiles that had been in the country whom during thet time here had acquired new information. | 0 How were those ~~ how and where were those debriefings conducted? | A, Well, normally the debriefings were conducted at Opa | Loca. 0. That is the Air Base? A. That is the old Air Base there but that is where the | reception center was for all the Cuban refugees coming in. Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into. small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, sit them down, under controlled conditions, and debrief them without any interference and this type of thing. SE CRET f Photocopy from 0. For how long a period did these debriefings go on? | Gerald Ford Library | 32204971 Page 62
o S g 1 vr a= 7 wm g 2 ise oi 2 _ g 3 DH < 9 a & 5 6 9 8 9 1c 1 ~ 4 lé > C a ~_ F 1s qa @ < 3 14 OR iw 1é 7 LE 19 o 1g o oO a J 20 Pal 8 21 o & g 2 ee ul ” Os 3 uu 2 vy 3 24 + 25 HY 50955 Docld: ° ad) Be Son BREE i A. You mean in terms of vears? | a Yes. FI i i A, Well, I would think that I would probably say from | about 1962, and I think the debriefings as such, of course -- we relied principally on the airlift for the people coming out and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -= cut off i about, I guess about 1970 or '71, in that timeframe -~ Fg I see. i . a i A. ~~ that stopped the flow of the refuqees, so we just i - terminated that part of the activity. ‘4 0. ‘Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came ¢ in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any other i 4 intelligence gathering functions -- | A, No. : 0, In the community? -. ; A Weil, I can't give vou a real ves or no to that. I would suppose that’ there is an outside possibility they could have been used to debrief people within the community, within | the Cuban community, but we had'in the organization -- all thes people were Cuban with the exception: of we had what we call an ; On-Site Case Officer, who was a‘ fulltime staff employee and he | had a couple of assistants; including a’ secretarv.: These people were directly under his control: Though the organization as it |. was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing, but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case Officer. ; ; | SE Cc RET Photocopy from . Gerald Ford Library | 32204971 Page 63
ol Phane (Area 202) 544-6000 as oO WARD & PAUL él 22 29 24 410 First Strcel, S.E€., Washington, D.C. 20003 29 HY 50955 Docld: _ SECKET 620 OF course, if these people went out and did something on i their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviouslv. | You can't -=- you know what they are doing during their eight or / ten hours that thev are going to work evervday but once they | leave, we don't know what they are up to. : 0, Did they have CIA credentials? ' A No sir, because they were proprietary hires of this ' commercial cover. \ 0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these people other than in their duties -- in their debriefing i; ; | capacity, I should sav? A. No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelligence interest or a battle, you know, anvthing -- economic questions, morale, and this type of thing. When these questions -- when. | | I | | these people were cebriefed and the. debriefer wrote up the | | . ‘ | report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over. to the Station. I . : if the debriefing report contained something of positive | intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot recontacted and asked specific. questions. ral Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did this | smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in. the Miami area? | down some additional requirements and.ask that that person be | A. This was their prime purpose. Ph tocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page 64
> 3 1 T + es) g 2 ts 3 < o oy 3 & 4 5 6 4 7 8 9 16 il 5 12 2 q a 7 F 13 a & : 14 15 16 1? 18 4 1? 2 g é 20 3 21 3 22 i 8 “i 3 24 = 29 HW 50955 Docld: types. eh A i MR, 0. A | | resettling Cuban emigres? t t A. se Gite & 63 How large was that particular group? Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside I think there were about five debriefers with the support peopl Tt don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15 in that qroup, if there were that many. MANFREDI: Off the record. (O£F the record discussion) 1 boon. i | BY MR. MANFREDT: Back on the record. \ Before we move on to further discussion of the AMOTS could. vou briefly describe for. me what role the CIA plays in CIA doesn’t resettle Cuban emicres. What Agency is charged with that responsibility? Health, Education and Welfare. Noes CIA play anv role in that process? We mav assist if we are. asked but the idea of the whole i . : : : . , ; : ' airlift was having relatives here. for somebody to claim you whe you came in so vou wouldn't become a ward of the State of the Government, and normally when these refugees came in, thev were processed through the Center and then they had a place down on Biscayne Boulevard thev called.Freedom House and this was, of course, all run by HEW, and they -- if need be and thev had to stay overnight or stay several davs, HEW would put them up and care for them in Freedom House. Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page 65 La which would he secretaries, translators, strictly — | | : é
Phone (Area 202) $44-6000 PAUL WARD & 18 aL S.., Wastungion, O.c, 20003 20 AlO First Giraed, nN cn HY 50955 Docld: 19 | 20 | y SECKEI o4 i i fl | ! to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where | relatives were, this type of thing, and we had nothing to do | : with that whatsoever. 0. Turnina back to the AMOTS, and to the larger of the two qroups, what was the name of that group again? Then as soon as thev could, of course, they-would move _ | : 0. We can call them for short? | A Really, they are both -- the onlv reason we separated the two groups was for security because we had one group housed | over here and the smaller group was over here, Obviously we couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, so that is why we took the smaller establishment to preserve some . ! | i cover. | | 0 Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged | } i i A. WEL1, the larger group was engaged in the collection | of intelligence, They compiled dossiers on the principals | inside Cuba. They carded -- they kept card files on every refugee that came through the reception center. They provided they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a monthly newsletter based on the information thev collected. 22 The information these people collected as opposed to the information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That came from -- all the information they had came from human source Photocopy from r ; SECRET Gerald Ford Library ; 32204971 Page 66 5 | | |
wei RE § 65 or overt publications. We subscribed -- well, the proprietarv subscribed to a number, a great many newspapers, periodicals, Spanish language type things. Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well, I don't know if vou could call it clandestine. What Well, would they run agents in the community? | { | i Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban | And that is clandestine collection, isn't Lt? | WELL, I call that human resources. All right. Where are these files now? They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. We there several years ago just looking through the files ! | 16 | to see what kind of shape thev were in and they had such great i 1 | os : : : . : 1? | information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a gal who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won a swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those took out that material, you know, which just didn't “ll have any pertinancy at all. How. are the files organized? You indicated before tha ecard, index card for each Cuban refugee? Right. o I 2 j : 1 | jj weren't they? | . 6 | | did you have in mind? ? 0 8 | A | le 9 | . ; community, 10 0 | A, ; 12‘ 3 0 < | 2 13 } h 3 | z 141 ° "| them were i5 | went down 18 | g 19 | : ¢ 20 | files and : 3 22 0 a | Z “3 |there is a : n4 | A. Are there soft cover files as well? SECRET ( Photocopy from { \ Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 67
3 g 2 Z 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 5 12 ps) q Fe 13 2 : 14 15 16 17 18 ~ 19 5 20 a 3 22 : 23 : 24 ¢ 25 SECRET A Yes. Q For each Cuban refugee? A: No. Not for each Cuban refugee. I think, as recall, those card files were up in the milli-ns and I forget, we had I guess the Manilla files, probably went into the tens of thousands, I would think. 0. Now, is there any way to determine from those files which of those exiles have hecome United States citizens A No way. 0 Has there been anv effort to make such a determina- tion? A. We made an effort at one time but this -- you can become nationalized out in California and your record of I ? db nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for two years. That is how far thev are behind. 0, So I take it -- A, So there is no central index vou can go to. I mean, there is a central index vou can qo to but it.is.not current. 0. I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langlev on Cubans who are now American citizens? A, Absolutelv true. Q, Now, are any of those files likely to contain derogatory information about the individuals. involved? A, Well, no. One of the things these people do, ~ - ne SECRET | Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library + } h & HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 68 of
i SECRET 67 3 Ll course, we had targets for recruitment. It could range from : 2 . anything from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a : 5 . Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people 3 4 as possible recruitments, for possible recruitment,we would ask 5 that all the information on that individual be assembled so that 6 | we could do a complete target studv -~ habits, you know, 9 | everything right down the line. In case of some of the more 8 | important ones, of course, we had psychological studies prepared i 9 | where we had enough information. But this is one of the thangs | | these people did. If we said we want everything vou have on the 1c | | | first .mate of the -- one of the Cuban ships, then thev would SEC RET f Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library il ; 12 | start looking through the papers or anything else to come up 13 with anything they could on what the guy's current activities 14 : are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing. 15 Q Well, the AMOTS were going to be the intelligence 16 | service of Cuba? | A Right. 18 | Q, And they obviouslv were going to perform some functio . 19 in addition to recruitment of agents? i a a. Right. 21 0. I take it thev were trained in counterintelligence, = | gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the w 23 traditional skills, is that correct? : 0a | A That is about right. | : 26 : 0. So I trust that they had files that were amassed for | ?t oO : _ a HY 50955 DBocld: 322304971 Page 69
Hy Phone (Area 202) 544-6006 Qi oo > cr 10 ii 12 13 WA & PAUL 14 19 20 ae »S-E6., Wastington, B.C. 20063 Steact 24 21G F aest 29 50955 DBocld: “* aad le Sas RES 8 68 purposes other than recruitment? A. Well -- 0 For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible internal security problem? A No. No. Thev didn't keep those types of files. We would simply task them with through your sources what do you have on so and so, They would not be told the reason why we wanted the information on anvhodv. 0. Well, I quess with several million fiels or several million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to make generalizations about the kind of information that is in those files? A Well, that is right. 0 So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to as you this. I trust thet there is " the possibility that some of these files de contain what vou in the trade refer to as aeroga- tory information? A. I would assume so. 0, And that so much of them may -= some of the subjects of those files mav now he American citizens? A Right. Q And finally I take it that no effort has been made to study that particular situation? A. WE1L1, we did make an effort to do it at one time. ; - f SECRET "Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Fage 70
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD. & PAUL fA 1. 19 20 a1 22 24 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, OC. 20003 25 HY 50955 Docld: i what the machine system had to see if there was updated informa | A, 0. Pog | A, | | Records Center. SECRET 69 You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel, whether thev are on an island or perhaps other places, their are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with | | | | tion in the machine system that would show that this guy had become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So == Excuse me, off the record. 0 (Off the record discussion) MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record. BY MR. MANFREDI: I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are presently here in Washington? The cards and what is left of the files. That is the soft cover files? Yes. And == T assume thev are either here or down at the And where is the computer system? You mean our machine system? We have -- The machine here that vou tried to match up with the SEC R ay Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page Ti names turn up on manrfests and this type of thing. Well, these i were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them
Co 8 1 g 2 é 3 é 4 5 6 " 8 9 10 11 ; 12 3 « 2 13 fe] & 3 14 15 16 17 18 ~ 19 oO rr 20 c : 23 a E 24 5 25 HY 50955 Docld: ~~ ad lhe Sous BS Es a information on the cards? A Right down on the third floor. | 0, That is not tre hvdro system? | A Oh, no, no. . i 0 This is a separate -~ | uses this particular system. 0, What kind of records -- strike that. | The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thev? | : A. No. n T thought thev were going out in June. A Well, okav. Thev are on the books until June. 0 I see. A. But they have all been let qo. They were let go ~- | | they were all given six months termination bonuses and told to go find a job. | 0, ‘Do they have any facilities, phvsical facilities, in | | Miami at this time? in the Miami community? A no. | | 0 So there are no records in Miami? A. No. No. We brought all those records back here. | | Q. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities | | i A. No. No. ) | Q °« Anv affiliation with law enforcement groups? ! Photocopy from | H SECRET Geraid Ford Library 32204971 Page f2 A. This is a complete -- only the Latin American Division | |
—_ SEGKE! 4 E 1 A. Hot to my knowledge. q 9 i 9. What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that « é 3 was not doing debriefings? E 4 A Well, when thev were trained in trade craft we would 5 send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemisphere i 6 to train some of the local services in those countries. Thev ! 7 ! y served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served oY B listening posts where we had audio -- | 9 0 Foreign listening posts? | 10 | A Oh, ves, foreign. ! | 0. Any domestic listening posts? | ; 12 | A, No, no. 1s | a Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these people? a! A I would assume -=- this I cannot answer because I reall 1g | don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but 16 : to mv knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance vy | conducted by them. a! “Now, Lf it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record, | . tt don't know where it could be. . 50 0. What intelligence gathering activities did thev 5 : - conduct in the Cuban communitv in Miami? 22 | A One. of the big problems we had was within that Cuban 4 23 | community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti- : na | castes groups and: this just: drove the FBI and the Coast Guard : 2 | and Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government | a | Phot f SEC RET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:322049T1 Page 73
ad He Ses RE fe i ( Photocopy from i SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 74 E 1 | agencies in Miami plus’ the State government enforcement agencie - : 2 | up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around -~- the 3 5 | covernnent allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess E 4 | about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they 5 . started to tighten up. 6 | I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing 71 | alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when 8 there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these | Q ; militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked | ig | by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau, | ns this type of thing. | 0. These people were arrested? a i A. Oh, ves. a 12 Gi a 4 0. Prosecuted? | 2 14 ae A. Not reallv. Le : 0. Anv of them American citizens? c, a | A. Not to my knowledge. | . a This would be Alpha 66 .tvpe groups? is) a A I don't know whether this quy -=- well, you know, they : . are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don' d 2) : know if they ever did get him in jail but .theyv had him up on : . i so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it pig here. | ES ‘! 4 23 : He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, . -but whether he ever : .. , served any time or not I don't know. .-I know he was convicted : 25 : but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. an 7 i .
Phone (Area 202) 544-6600 WARD & PAUL Sd tx 19 24 410 First Street, $.E., Washingiua, D.C. 20003 29 20 ; ae el 2O " in’ the community? $ | | | | { 4 SECRET rs I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went to jaul or not. 9 Other than identifying operations by militant anti- Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS engage in? | A. Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence -- | I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintetligence. interest, at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents.) Q Cubans were? A. The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well on the. airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. and I don't -- well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did trv to identify those .people whom we thought would be suspect. Q. Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau? A. With the Bureau, ves. 0. Because of their manpower limitations you folks were in a better position to do it? ree A Yes, and langquage-wise, too. That is always a big factor. 0. And this was conducted through the AMOTS? A 06S OYes. Q How substantial was the counterintelligence operation A. WE11L, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I fi Photoc fi SECRET , Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page T4
Pnone (Area 202} 544-6000 WARIO & PAUL 410 First Sivcel, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 a> GH csi [ fs a3 fe j= CA } —s qi 22 | 24 7 od lee Ss OE ES would call a great number of suspect infiltrees, but thev did |; come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens to it because, von know, vou just -- unless vou personally know the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, vou might as well forget it. You have qot too many other things to do. a What other positive intelligence gathering activities were they engaging in? A. Well, as I told vou, one part of them were engaged in electronic intercept, 0 - Where was that done? A Down in Florda, down | si a This is Southeast | | A. Yes, 0 What ere they intercepting? A. Well, originally they were set up to assist with the comme. for the infiltration. As we phased down the maritime activities, thev were made available to intercept Cuban communications, NSA tasks them wit the-frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications nets they wanted covered, such as the border guards. Another important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards, sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior network they covered too. But all electronic intercept coveragel, is. dictated by NSA. Photocopy from | SECRET Gerald Ford Library BW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 76
_ ood He os RES 8 - g 7 | Now, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin require g z 2 | Ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently 2 H . 3 5 | because the common interests, -- we have a common interest in 2 4 | what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one sarticulad ; i 5 | operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the Cubans 1 ' 6 | were doing, then we would task our people with that. ry ; For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into | | i . . i 8 ! Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then ; | | 9 | there was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing was. it : t i | iC | But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the | fod 3 " i i . : : . | 1 ‘ boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when a | 12 | bteicame. back on “ the-air. And this is the type of thing. As. | a i 3 H a | a matter of fact, And 200 | a 13 i | o # ‘ . i z ._, | Cuban: troops. 3 14 it * _. | MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. i - | (Off the record discussion) | 6 . MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record. | Af ! i . i BY MR. MANFREDI: 1é i . 1 0 Were the communications-~ they: were intercepting 2 19 4 ; S | exclusively foreign communications? 3 20 | = | A Exclusively foreign communications. Zl 21 | = | 0. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus = £2 - | ui | of which was the United States? = RSH & | FA i A. No. 3 24 1 c 0. These were basically Cuban Government ‘communications? = 25 : , | if | | SECRET oo! Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library i i HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 77
| aod ee Sas I Es re | 9: | A Right. ¢ 0. On the Island? a 2 | “ | A. Richt. g | 9 Or between the Island and other locations? E a | | Q But not between the Island. and the United States? 6 i i A . No. Let's go off the record on that. a H . ' | (Off the record discussion) | 6 | BY MR. MANFREDI: 9 | a To vour knowledge were the «AMON engaging in the 16 | 7 intercept of any communications, either that facility or else- | . . i il | where, in the Miami area or in the southern part of the country? i . : 3 12 A No | | 0. Of other communications? | I i ° ue | A) Now | LS: . : cae Q. Is that their only intercept facility? 16 | * *oy A. (Nods affirmative) any | 7 | 0 Do you know of your own personal knowledge -~ strike I +8 | that. Do you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances, g aa breakins or activities of thqt tvpe other than what we have i] . 2 20 | discussed -~ 5 2 Bl A. No sir. = BE -- that were conducted by the AMOTS? le aps 4 fF 3 23 A, No sir. I want to go off the record a minute. 5 . E a4 (Off the record discussion) | oO 3 25 | Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library ‘ HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 76
SECRET / g . ‘ BY MR. MANFREDI: 4 9 i 0. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS x o | : d _ | has been prepared by one of vour members. ¢ o | | A. That is right. 5 : 0. What is his name? | l A I think it is Joaquin -~ I can't remember the last | 6 ii ' d ; . ; name, The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just nave 7 i | to get that for you. oo . . | i 0. What is the title of the study? 9: i A The title of the study -- it is part of the hisvorical 16 | , | series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled “the : AMOT Organization.” | a Le | < | Q What is the historical series of the Miami Station? | & 13 3 & A. «It was done when-Paul Hennessev was down there. What = 14 : . | we try to do as we go along, from vear to vear, is set aside 25 |. | what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things 16 | | the station might do or that might occur in the station personneh i wise, this tvpe of thing, and then these things are written. 18 i é i A. At intervening peridds of time. . c i 0. When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS? 5 21 4 5 | A. Xt think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68. i 0. It is a fairlv lengthy document, isn't it? a ~ i 5 RBI 8 e A. Yes. i “a i x 24 fF a Q And purports to be a fairly complete historv of the | 7 25 | | 1] | | | . | SE ¢C RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY O50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 7S ,
SECKET rs | c . ‘ 3 1 activities of the AMOTS? = 2 | A, It starts back in 1959 when we first started using i 3 this gent.. 2 4 0. First started using what? | 5 | A. First started using, I forget what his name was. 6 0 I see. Is it a chronological studv of their activi- too, | % | ties? | i t 8 | A Yes. | 9 a And you nave a copy of that in your custody? i i | A, Yes. | 10 | { 7 Q. I would like to see that document. And we will try | and obtain it through Hank Knoche's office. | : lz | | < 2 t AY Okav, é 13 | ~ | 3 if i 5 M4 0, Excuse me just for a minute. 3 18 {Off the record. discussion) | ae . | - | MR. MANFREDI: On the record. | | of BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if vou would -- let me ask vou | 18 | this. There have heen some allegations in the press that } . ; . - o . | 19 | prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents | 5 | of the CIA. i 20 < | Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join 3 one 3 22, us because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the E “ 5 Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the thing 2 Zz : 3 P had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn | S the examination over to him for whatever time he needs. | < 25 | | | ‘Photocopy f | . SECRET ' Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 60
$4 ay) 3 2 2 vv 3 Ce Col Plaine (Ares teh] qs ss om WAH & PALE 20003 + Woashergiou, DG. ADOC dat Staced, SE HW 50955 Docld: * ning me) “2 TS “| MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, “eorge. BY “MR. OLSEN: 0, Can vou begin, since I have not been in on the begin=- of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts, by giving ne about a one or two minute resume of what your contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere withing this countrv on benal= of the Agency? A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in “ a varietv of intelligence collection and operations. Dick 0 Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff? A Desmond Fitzgerald. a) And who was his immediate superior? A Dick Bissell. Excuse me. No. At that time it was Helms. He was the DEP. 0 Neputy Director for Plans? A Deptutyv Director for Plans. 0 What period of time are we talking about now? A. We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965. MR, MANFREDI: Off the record. (Off the record discussion) BY MR. OLSEN: Q So vou were not involved in this Special Activities i Group during the 1959 to ‘61 period? Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page 41
car] S cS t ¢ ” & 3 < o 5 c lad ? a a v ae +3 o F 12 < Ed Ls 3 < - z it a5 _ TA qe. ic . 12 4 Lt na 20 Pi aQ 2 21 = 22 - Of - o 3 a - SA 3 a4 = a ; 25 i | on Or the period leading un to the Bav of Pigs? aA NO. | , ! 0 And vou were not involved in this program at all during i the same time that =. Howard Hunt vas involved in it? . ! 0. Do vou know what the cosition was Mr. Hunt occupied in: connection with the Cuban overations of the Agency during the _period of 1959 to ‘61? ! 4 To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert Be T Action Start dealing in propaaanda. a Was this propaganda Girected to the Cuban veople in this country? Ay No. Cuban people aproad. Q And what-was his connection with the planning for the Bav of Pigs? A. I would have to review the record to reallv answer that. I don't know. Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami area? | A, He commuted cuite 4 bit. | 0. Between Washington and --_ : A Washington and Miami. ! 0. -- and Miami. During the period of 1969 and early : ‘61? aA. Right. | a “Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in his SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 82
é , - published materials that he was the person who was in charge of > 9 j organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which a HI , 3 | . , . : : 2 =z | would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall - “ll z a | where that was? 5. 3, That could be quite true. 6 0. Have vou reviewed, Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire % files relating in anv wav «*o the Cuban operations and particu- 3 ' larly with reference to whether thev reflect anv contacts S between the Aqency and Frank Sturgis? ae A. Ye@S. : aa 0. Or Frank Piorini? aye A, There is no relationship. & ae 0, Is it vour testimony that the records and files of : 1 Z - the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any 2 AS . ,. . hature with Frank Sturgis? 1A A. To mv knowledge that is true. _ 0 I take it from that that vou are emphatic in your _ testimony that he was never an emplovee of the Agency? a A. Extremely emphatic. 1 : 3 i S 0 And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that 2 he was never a contract agent of the Agency? 3 el 3 { A, Exactly. = a2 ° “ 0, Do vou know whether he ever served in the capacity oo “ 20! ; R ; of being an informer or intermant to the Agency? 3 24 | , 2 5 | A. It is possible thnat he could have been a source. + 25 | HY¥ 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 63 = Gm A Fa ie 8 SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
Pnone (Area 202) 53.1-6000 WAO K MARL 20605 Wastiagtun, O.6. SL, Streul, VID Fess Sa Wes “as, ss ; ! 4, YOu mean a source of -- ~ tl 2 | a Source of information of another aqent. Another ! 5 | agency agent. y 23 0. No the files of the Agency reflect anv matter? Pe A To my xnowledde I don't recall anvthing like that but : w ‘ . . é " it is entirely possible that shat could have happened without 9 . being a matter of record. p ‘| a . _ . 8 ! a Do the files of the Agency reveal anv instance what- ri . q | ever in which Frank Sturcis was ever asked to undertake anv. i Ve } kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency? a! A, To my knowledge, nothing. iol a Do the files of the Agencv reveal anv evidence we kof . ‘ iz i whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or _, indirectly bv the Aqencv? _. Pa To mv knowledae, no, , }, Now, when vou sav "to mv knowledge, no", in answer att ‘ . to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that i” - you are giving us the full benefit of vour knowledge on the ia . . basis of a full review of the Agency's records and files? 1g A On Frank Sturgis, ves. 20 ; 0 Okav. Puring the ceriod of time that vou were with 21 | | the Svecial Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all, 22 || sO ~ - can vou tell us when that becan in 1963? 2c! : A When the Special Activities Group -~ £4 :: J a No. When vour contact with the Special Activities ae | ‘ Pp ae ij Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 64
TQ 8 e e ~~ 2 ° B ~ a s Oe) a 2 3 Nl 3 ig 3 3 3 = ran az te - Fad ry f ~ Ee) cq Z a +7 TA 19 J oar > < 1 yt 4 ac a z < ~ 2 ae ov aan 42 ~ <n a ware) ~ ae 3 S ca . ¢ gS 20 ba 3 2} = a 3 oO 2 ae al a ~ - 2 4 od as 3 ed ~ ao 2 eA = 7 25 ea? ti “ts YR flee Group began? A Tt began ~- well, it becan around 0, Now, with particular reference to 1963, including whatever period in June '63 involved, were there a creat manv Cubans in States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being ' sponsored by the Agency? A, Wellm vou mean Acencyv sponsored f: 0. Yes. Ae The Agency subsicized these. front have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro factions. Obviously the leaders-of the fronts knew that the CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these fronts did not know chev were being subsidized by the Agencv or the U.S. Government. 0. But when vou say "supposedly," does the fact appear to be otherwise? oa WELL, hpased on mv sxperience with the Cubans and this type of thing, and their penchant to talk, ~ it wouldnA't take long for snowledqe of any subsidy to surface itself. 0. Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr. a2 involved in the CIA orqanizations? ‘A. Yes. SECRET HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 645 June of '63. the last half of mav not have been the southern United S in an effort to I would think that Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be : Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
Cc aa . . ‘ . . S te 0 And again with particular reference to the Miami a 2 , area? a i 3 ‘ 3 5 | A. Yes. 2 2 0, Was there also Cuban activitv of this sort elsewhere in the United States? 7 an asking now particularly with 4a | reference to New Orleans. my A There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am > ; really not familiar with “hat happened in Hew Orleans that was ,o I > 7 Sort of a sideshow to Miami, “y -. ! 0, But the same is -- it is possible that some of “he 2 -- 7 Same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded ~_— 3} i - 5 jj by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans? & 2 A I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had 3 aw HI 2 a . : z -. | the same functions. = know chat some funding arrangement for 2 = 2 Subsidizing the orqanizations in Miami was carried out through .. | New Orleans. a. 0 Well, can vou he more specific about what vou mean ao i _. by that? .. A Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we 3 ‘ were subsidizing there had +o be some ostensible source of ao . a Paar 1 = 1 income for them to continue what they were doing. A great 2 ee i 2 i number == well, not a creat number, but a number of select _ | people were ~~ well, thev were selected and then they were Ai i talked to, to POSe aS trustees, if vou would, or directors or 3 ' whatever you might have of some of these organizations in order 7 25 | ° ¢ tee : & rg ¢ RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY 450955 DocId: 32204971 Page 66
0&3 Cr S od 9 vr 7 < A N 2 a 3 2 < 2 é ~ on ee tot pet WARD A PAUL wi ,? wl thy 4 OD boos 2 C aa a3 Jed nD a3 CN aw) a) a ALO Farsi Strset, SEL, Washingtun, OC. to on Rar HEE “GE, : . } to get the funding throuch to the organizations. These people were normally prominent people and -- 4, And did thev qet funded by the Agency, then, through the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do neople? A, These well-to-do people ostensibly would call a friendi of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity, and sav, vou know, we are trving to assist these Cubans in this } type of thing. Could vour organization give us anv monev, and the guy. on the other end would sav, sure, we can probably lend you 325,990 or something iike that, or donate $25,990. This is the wav the funding went into the fronts. ia) And was some of that funding arranged through veople in New Orleans? A. Twouia think so. Tf helieve so, a Were anv oF «he neople in New Orleans through whom that funding operation was effected people who turned out to be | involved in the investiaations conducted bv Jim Garrison? % ae Jor to mv knowledce,. . i G How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with i I ~ the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance|. ij . ! to Cubans or Cuban crouns? | | By I couldn't sav. =F am just not familiar with -- we had| | a qreat manv people that did this. Q, How about Clav Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a funding source? ; Photocopy from” | SECRET . Gerald Ford Library ; HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page a7
Cal = = = 3 T 7 5 = ry OF Pad 2 oe a 2 = ert On ~2 q@ iS © fed ay WARD & PAUL f-? We Crt OM Hn mM t- 4 ©O OOMD § a O + Wosdinagbeni, €) ¢f PU ters. Saeed, ee ras) fe io cn aap Gy Tes BD, Rs ai ‘ A, This I do not know either. Q, Pardon? a This I don't know. BY MR. MANPREDI: 0. Where would that information be available? A Well, we nave a suv that used to work with me who was down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know. 0 Is he in the puiliding? . B Yes. 4. What is his name? A Bill Kent. 0, Bill Kent! Yes. wu BY MR. OLSEN: a. Who is Bill:<éefe with now? Which department? A. He is still with the DDO. BY MR. MANFREDI: on Western Hemisphere Division? No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -- I ee think Career Manaqement Group Staff. Oo - Is he officed near vou? AY No. He is cown in the basement. BY MR. OLSEN: a) Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were chat were used to vrovide funds to the ~= Se ¢ Ree Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 66
2 - 2 - = 3 3 & o cA = c% a 2 x ~ ~ ia a 5 a ro A sm f = & a v <4 de a?) al bn tt a x Fa aw fa) pes < aad 2 _* ao 1 a aN as tM 4 ao Fa : oC. ra) xz ro 5 a5 = a ra = Og 2 Ka at ud we a : Be - Me 2 ~ oA 4 mss 2 = fc = oO “ ot ee aid ithe Ys YO thes i 0, ~~ co the Cuban movements? A. Yes. 0. Mo vou know whehter -- do vou know the identity of anu t or them in New Orleans? A, Mo. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took | Llace in New Orleans. : ' 1 0. tT take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediar ! for providing funds «o the Cuban fronts? A, The files <hat Ihave don't reflect it. 0 I think we covered this already just a few minutes aga but let me make sure that we have got it on the record. | i i \ ~ T understood vou to sav that it was vour impression in 1963 that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban peopie in the southern - United States, calked ahout and believed that they were involved in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? A, That is riaht. 0. Was it also vour understanding and vour impression that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in the southern United States about plans or prospects for the assassination of Fidel Castro? I would sav no. I don't think there was -- you have | ia got to remember that these veople were embittered. They lost ! , i | their homeland, their nossessions, they lost everything and they *% blamed it all on one man. Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library | HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 69
= 3 : 3 ~ S a os a A 3 2 = < a > ro - ra v 7A ' are > t 2 id pa = z x “6 > - = ~~ 7A ao) ~ oA a - aos a4 : “ an et rw 5 oo = a Pa 4 oN >» we 2 me 4 t at : Oo - ae = oc aw HY 509545 Docld: a Hs Tous Hae 6. That is Fisdl Castre? A. That is right, and they would probably verbally do anything they could to get rid of him. 0. Was there a lot of taik about killing Castro among these Cubans? A. I would say amona the Cuban exiles there probablv was &@ lot of talk about that. 0. Nid vou participate vourself in the overhearing of such conversations? A. No. 0. Was this a matter of something that was reported to you? A Well, it was -- I really don't remember what the source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the Station and from mv visits Gown there and that type of thing that this subject alwavs came up. ‘What were they going to do with Fidel? How are thev coind to get rid of him and this type of thing. I don't mean the Aqency veople. This is what the Cuban exile community was discussina. Q | Yes. Do vou know what Howard Hunt was doing for the Agency in 1963? A Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in ‘63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the DDP. ie) This is vour hest recollection -- Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page 90
FS 4 = A ra 2 2 C. < 3 = i - “~ 2 ad c 5 fon) ia) 9 =A a 4.7 at ao ; Le & a a = —_u < ~ > L4 aed we 4 186 ty Ly VaR - i3 ; 20 S 3 5 2 22 “ 5% ~ Be 4 a - ij = > HW 50955 Docld: 1 caer Ga et BG ies Yes. “~~ at the moment. Is it possible that he was with Domestic Overations Division in the field of proprietaries engaqded <= abouts on A. (OfE THE I guess vou are vricht, ves, I believe he was there. Did vou personaliv know Howard Hunt? NO. Never met sim? Eomet him. Trat is all. I can't say I know him. You would not nave xnown anvthing about his where~ anv particular Gav, then. Is that true? Can we go off the record? the record discussion.} WITNESS: Let's go hack on the record. BY MR, OLSEN: 4 would like to have it on the record, Do vou have a narticular day? “No. I am just asking vou if vour acaquanitance with Hunt was such that vou would have known of his whereabouts on anv Darticular dav. x put a A. NO o Was it very infrequentiv that you ever saw him? Oh, I would see nim in the halls, this type of thing, ~- bump into hin rerhans downtown on the street. Sut vou would nave no occasion for. knowing from one SECRET _ __Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 32204971 Page 91
WAR & PALEL pea OL O1S Be) op Wea sdraigdeaga, 0 0, Lé. tlt, Va ba HY 50955 = 3. 3 ? T g 2 = x 2 x] 3 3 M4 { 2 Ci 0) on x? {3} Sid to t te >? ay Oh ue Cr t “2 ff Ge © }e- nM am) i 3 4 xy) ay) Paw CN No 4 nh Cn Sa the Mas OM es 8 dav to the next where he was? A. No. 0 Have vou ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf of the Agency as to where ne was on November 22, 1963? A, Yes. 0. And when did ou conduct that inquiry? A. I have done it twice that I recall and the most recent one wa too lo time a showed 0. Sturbi Office during the two-week pav neriod ending the 23rd of November but that t s I guess -~ Tt am ust trying to think. Well, it wasn! nq ago hecause we did have an inauirv and we obtained + — ‘4 4 1 ne. nd the attendance records from the Office of Finance which that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day. - Was this just fairly recently? Yes. Iounderstood irem what files I have seen, Mr. tts, that the oniv records that were available from the or he records were not zvailable as to how much sick leave ar annual leave had been taken on any particular dav. A. sick 1 Well --. am I mistaken? As I recall, he was in a duty status one dav and a eave status the next day and back to duty the next day. I would have to check that with mv Budget and Fiscal Officer. He is the chan that cot that for me.. Photocopy from ; SECRET | Gerald Ford Library Docld: 3227043971 Page 932 5 of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave
a? Vee “tat Hh San 8 NS 2 7 f, Can vou check that for us? : a : = 0 And give us the results of that? 2 A A Yes. = 4 | : “4 : . A . i = 0 Because this is much more detailed information than 6 I have heen previoulyv aware is available in the files of the : g Agency. I | 8 A. All right. I will do that. | 9 BY MR. MANFREDI: ; +7 fa Do vou want to make a note of that? ic | 14 A Let me have a piece of paper. . a an YOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts’ phone number which | : ke 3 | 2 . is 351-5196. 2 _. THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right? z les — BY MR. MANFREDI: 25 _. a That is the dav. — A. 1963. iF . 0, In response to whose inquiry was that investigation Lé made? 19 A T don't know. I would have to look that up, too. [ . don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether -= al. “ I-will just have to check that. I don’t know who it was. Washisgton, O ©. 20003 22 n And the date? Do vou have anv idea when vou made the inquiry? A. No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefull: 410 biest Siscet, S.E., SEC ET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library no oO i eg ne mene ne RR a HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 93
7 5H Re | | | | | | | | ¢ on 8 1! 0. You said there was a previous inquiry? a 2 4 A Yes, The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt a f z = | who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of Z ‘| ‘ E 4 * European Division. 5 0 When was that inquirv received? 6 A. That was about a vear ago, I quess. y BY MR. OLSEN: Bg n About the first time these photographs began to he 9 circulated? 16 4 A Yes. i. Q. About the bums in Dallas? 2 A. Yes, and actually I think this -- Archie's inguiry = ;z ; came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe. Archie was a ~w q ~ Chief;of Station) | Zor a long time and he apparently z oa ? ss --, made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media. . Q This is something vou are relating to Der Sterm 16 . 5 Maqazine? .o A That is right, _ 0. And did I understand vou to sav that in checking with $ 50 ' the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that 9 _ ; z >, | Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd? 2 al , 3 aa j aA Well, I will have to check that. That is the way 2 aa ~ F ot i I understood it but I did cet this through our Budget people who = BO fF 3 7 5 24 | have the contact with the Office of Finance. z a = ir . 2 i a And that he was on annual leave the day before? * £5 | i i HY 50955 Bocld: 32204971 Page 94 Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library
8 - 3 a. No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick a = i leave, and then on duty status ‘the following dav. 2 ij - , * at i 3 : : 5 | BY MR. MANFREDI: 2 i 2 . 3 Q. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's ‘| = : previous pattern with respect to sick days had veen? a A. (Nods in negative) y 4 BY MR. OLSEN: ‘ . =! a November 22, 1963, was a Fridav. When you sav that Ne ! . ‘| ; ; . g } records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day «=< 7 i A. It was a Tridav. Then I was mistaken. ‘| 7 ; +: i o Does that mean ne was on dutv the following Monday —_— il - 7 ,5 / Or on the next dav, Saturdav? : a z | - . ~ ae . By qa A No. On the following Monday. I didn't realize the F ic il 5 .. . 22nd was a Fridav. 2 + wa a Will vou check that thing for us-and give us a brief _ 2 ‘ memo together with whatever supporting -- copies of supporting _. | documents vou can #ind? _. “OR Okav. oo! a AS promptiv as possible on this question. S ; I think that covers the subject matter. = 5 MR. MANFREDI: I.can cive you another moment if you want. = Fr ade, 3 | Can vou think of anvthindg else? 2 22 8 J tat 4 ; ‘ x _. MR. OLSEN: fT think that is all. = BO , F i MR, MANFREDI: Okav. Off the record. 3 z4 : a os . 2 a | (Off the record discussion) 3 25 “et Fi 4 ‘HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 95 — -~.4 Photocopy fro , SECRET Gerald Ford bibrary
3 1 = A ~ n u é a < wo 2 = 4 a *: = wv ec 12) ny f o v a Te, = 7a a we Ka x % =~ 4a = x ~ oe 2 id ~c 2 aed Fad oO cr + 7 G cae a 3 5- 5 mS 3 xs On 2 Be 4 Pe] a7 = Koa ~ 2 a ae = me = ac - mo ! BY MR. MANFREDT: 0), Io am Sorry for tha interruption but over: the long Z think Probably f saved yOu some time, We are talking ahout newspaper editors when we were inte rupted <= or when rt invited the interruntion, I guess I ough to be fair, ‘Is it not a fact that the Agency had some relationship w: some prominent newsvaner officials in the Miami area? A, Yes, : 0 And what VAS che nature of that relationship? A, ?raditionally =ne Chief of Station Maintained the relationship with Officials of/ es TO oT _ - __\as well as relationships with staff and stringers" for ‘members of it, I think i+ ts ( » thestother newspaners and Seriodicals Stationed in Miami. 4 what was the Purpose of those relationshins? ie - t really couldnit+ sav what the Prupose of the relation Ship was, 1 mean, the same reason that we establish a relation- Ship with the Press-in this town. There were certain things thay might come to the attention of the Press involving true names | j and incidents that we fale should perhans not. he surfaced at any | . . | particular time, | | i a DO vou have anv SnowLledge of use of the press in Miami! i H | i for pronaganda Purnoses? _ A No. No. H t Photocopy from SE C¢ RE T Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 96
Eolos if msl, H co ” i $ ~ i 3 9 Would you know if that were the case? wt t a 21 a A lo. i really wouldn't know, but the relationship was a és 5 | ; ; 3 a twom-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these # people as well as they were assigint us. | Q What assistance would you render for members of f the press in Miami? 7 il i A Well, in the case of 8 | - we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of ¢ | i areas he periodically visited and the Chiefs of Stations if # would give him background briefings and this type of thing 1. ; on che developments within a given countr;. 12] | 3 ' Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers? be | : . ses . : 3 A Predominantly, I would say probably the: Miami bog . . . . . : = '  sterald received probably a little more attention than.the ““ | other papers, principally because: it was = large paper and i af , 1é | traveled a great deal throughout ~ tne Hemisphere, aa 2 Was he also used as a source? ; Ve a 3 ~* A No. fe] 5 2 ZC 9 DO newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive a ~ Similar briefings? a = ee | A Yes. . A 23 | 3 - i 3 We taiked with tir.Olsen for a short period of time 2 a4 about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these 2 7 25 organizations? Photocopy from SECRET : Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 97 nn enn
mbh 2 " & . ou z ‘ A Well, the membership varied. As I Said, we were “ | a | principally interested in the leadership of the organizations. 3 i @ ; Once the organization was established and the leadership took. Fi 4 over, then they would take care of enlisting the, I guess, getting membershio from the Cuban exil community to join. 6 . re . : Q What were their functions, the fronts? 7 : A Well, i was to bring some unity out of this chaotic: ; thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I said, it was a political organization in exile. a) Did thev conduct any operations? a A No, not that I know of. 5 a D Just like a political varty? x ' a LZ os ; as a A Like a colitical party. 2 « aaa 3 we Q How many of these fronts were there? “ A There were several of them. I really don't remember ~€ the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary “" : Democratic Front. = guess that was probably the biggest -one. aed And there were some others. 19 noe a . a ~~ 9) The EDF? Q i G aC 3 FRD. a a . 5 213 ; 5 sy QO ti see. 3 22 | meee tesa , wee . { A front Revolutionary Democratic. It is the WwW : ‘ 4 az i 3 <“ Democratic Revolutionary Front. g ae | 2 All right. Are these groups still in existence? she it = H =: 25 - eee , oan A Eo woulc think not. I really don'ts. know. H SECRET ‘| i Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 98
abh 3 jo Phone (Area 202} 544-6000 tol Ps cn O WARD & PaUL ja dos Cx to I+ ah » Washington, O.C. 20003 22: S.E. 4iG Farst Strect, faa ing “ers OR Hien 97 9 Is there a CIA station in A do. Tnere was but there isn't any more. There hasn't been one there for years. QD - When was it disbanded? A I think the station was established around| | and ~~ perhaps it was established before that. I think it went out cf existence in | Q Do vou snow wnv it went out of existence? 4 No, = tonit. 2 don't have anv idea. 2 Do vou xnow what function it was performing? A (Jods in negative.) 9 You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked in the Cuban community for the CIA? A He worked with these fronts, toc. 1 ) Was he cerforming any intelligence function in the community? A Intelligence functions. Well -- 3 Was ne coilecting information? A Sure. If he got information that he thought was worthwhile he would 2ass it on. y Sow, would ne have been considered one of the three or 500 sersons emploved or assigned to the Miami Station? A Yes. He was a contract employee. a And were intelligence requirements levied on such contract emplovees Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 99
8 3 a T y a ra eC 2 Te 3 ~ < 3 2 = L he “x iam ios 6 7 8 Gq “ a Ll , 1é 2 < 2 ~ a Lé a 3 1s in ns a we 1é 17 te _ 19 3 . 2C 3 2 22 = vi - 2 ee z 24 > 2s ' 1 “ft ! 1 1 A or they ad be Q the business cf Cuban communities A a you think were Normally, at surfaced. Some or these contract employees were, Rignt. Now, £ 2A of any cther functions verformed a ae ee ean e wee Ce ke collecting 4 he the requirements are vretty standard, time. But here again, you always have hoc type things that pop up from time to time, and have to then, in intelligence information in the in Miami. nk we finished with the AMOTS but can by the AMOTS thac we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon? A Yo, not really. No. a) tT think vou previously described them for me as the eves and ears into the Cuban community. BY Right. Q And they actually had a physicai facility in Miam1 which was their headquarters, did they not? A Exactly. Y And there was a CIA Case officer who managed co supe vise that A i out of @XL Facility. wes, Tow, wha ct The AMOTS stence ~- ‘Te it the hens ¢ HW 50955 Doacld: 327204971 Page 100 has nappened to -the AMOTS? were craduaily phased down and will go che AMOTS are out’of existence, aren't AMDUKES or -= these are the radio. neople. SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library rr
bh 3 8 L a z 9 And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS? Pel 4 | A The AMDUKES are AMOTS but they are radio people. 3 9 They are the ones that conducted the intercept for NSA? 5 | | A Yes. The only reason we use two different names | uv 2s that in each “hese things in those Cavs we had to have t 7 if . a project which nad to be renewed every vear to get the 8 | as funding. 9 | i 9 50 AMDUKE and AMOT -~ i i A Synonymous. | Li! i Q -- are crvptonyms? 1 | 12 | z ' A Yes. z Z 13 | bas ; = ti ) Do the itials stand for anything other than -- 2 i4 | ae ~ eo s ; F A io. Just Dick them out. If you want to encrypt somehody you just call downstairs and they give you a t 1é |; ‘ soak: . : aa . . } crypt. You con't nave anvthing to do with it. The AM happened i atstnat particular time to be the Cuban diograph. ran . 3 Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for | Hi ; - . . . . z a asSistance to the Secret Service in connection with the = i © £0 | political conven ns in 1968 and 1 would vou briefly : i 2 o7 3 -. _ ' . . Fi | describe for me nature of the assistance provided by 3 i = _ BE | the Aqencv to tne Secret Service? ta! ‘| ° zl . - . : 3 25 | a At the request of the Secret Service we conducted = a4 name traces on incividuals whom the Secret Service wanted , 7 craced. These includedthe employees of all hotels in Miami | HY $0955 Doecld:32204971 Page 101 we Sn ey Se 8 SECRET photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
HW 50955 DocTd:32204971 Page 102 g z S id v < 0 ~ ™ bo] nN = a = £ 2 a WARE A PAUL $.E., Washirtylon, OC. 20003 410 bicst Slecel, fo! Cri > ~2 be f—! a nN j— if if J cn fey On ad Tie an BES 100 Beach where any convention activities were to take place, emplovees of catering services, limosine service, employees in -- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it. Foreign news people and media, television, radio people. 2 Were these veople on whom name traces were requested all foreign nationals? A All foreign nationals. 2 as there any check made to determine whether any of them were American citizens? A “we levied on the Secret Service as a requirement that they have identified these people by nationality before we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citiz whicn we promptly sent back to them and told them we could not trace. a And this practice was followed both in 1968 and A That is right. And where were these names traced? &) a They were traced back here and also in Miami. The Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check here. in tn the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had more information on the Cubans than we would have back here. om) But the names were traced through Agency files? SEC RET photocopy from Gerald Ford Library en
“oh 7 Phone (Arca 202) 544-6000 WARD & POUL 410 Farst Streel, SEL, Wushimgion, O.€. 20005 Oo il 1l2 LS 22 23 24 25 { i i ag Hin “ows WG ie 8 LOL A Through Agency files. a} Was Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI on this as well? A Oh, ves. fe) And in effect,they were getting an all-Agency name check -- A Right. Q -- on people who might pose a security threat -- A Yes. 9 owt to a candidate? A Well, they were just trying to cetermine who might be a security threat. Q That is right. Potential threat. A Yes, re) For what political parties -- strike that. tH conventions? A Both political conventions. Q Were they both held in Miami that. year? A No. I guess it was in 1972 they were both held there. I think it was tust, the Democratic in 1968. Q These requests did come from the Secret Service rather than -- ay From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director it t Service came to the DCI and asked him for - SECRET £1) of the Secr Photocopy from Geraid Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32704971 Page 103 n 1968 was this service porovided for both political
8 2 1 g support. Be] 1 g 2 N 2 90 you still maintain 2 < eo |i . — g tnat tracing activity? ra} ¢ : . é 4 | if - A I have all 5 | i 2 And “they are on 6 i “1 A Yes, Hi | 8} Nhy have those records 3 | any reason those records g A Vell, because ve vere LO . 1 cone Watercate ching broke. il 2 I see. le . . \ 3 A And since then nobodv a 1a gy - a . 9 OX. Are vou aware of zx ‘ z 14 | 5 Dlaces in the country that has b aan) . Jrouos? +0 A to was not aware of it 1? ; : . tostill don't know whether this was Ss : = 4 1 ene part of these ceople or whether ° 19 do it. I tried to run that down 2 & 20 - 5 | 3 At what locations has 3 el were Located? = | 3 = 22 | BY Airline offices in ad i 4 23 | . 3 “| place. I forget where it was. : an } flave you in fact been a persons were Cubans? | : SECRET 25 | HW 50955 Docld:322704971 Page if4 102 the records with respect to cne names that have been traced, little cards down in your files? , been maintained? ts there nave been maintained? told to maintain them when will destroy anything. any picketing at various een conducted by Cuban until I was told of it. a spontaneous action on they were instructed to and I have been unable te. it been reported that pickets New York, Miami. I think another able to verify that these Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
° 3 3 4 vT a a Q ° at 3 Cod t 2 g = WARO & PAUL S.E., Washinyglon, OC, 20003 410 First Street, Gi ‘19 | 24 | 25 | | 18 § 22 | 23 | at ie Ys THe 8 A Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history that this indeed did take slace. Jow, what I have been trying to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized this,whicn IT fully doubt. 2 Who was the On-Site Case Officer?. BN At that time it was a fellow by the name of 9 tis he still alive? A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know whether <chis was a unilateral action on the part of the AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with Cuba, notably Spain anda Great Britain and France. 9 Other than this incident which we -- strike that. What kind of an investigation nave you conducted? A tT nave talked to people, which is really all you can do. There is no other way vou can do it. 9 You have been unable to determine who, if anyone, authorized this activity? Have you been able to identify any of the persons who participated in the picketing? A No. 9 With what frequency did this activity occur? A t don't have any idea. I only know of one instance. Q This was in ilew York City? RY New York City and “Miami. | 2) Do you know of anv organized political activity that SE ¢ RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HY $0955 Docld:322704971 Page 105
Phone {Area 202) 544-6000 10 WARD & PAUL Fe tA Ae S.E., Washington, O.C. 26003 ay) k 4 20 24 TVG Fist Street, 29 BW 50955 Docld: 32704971 Page 106 | t 1 i i a the “os OO. hea B ‘ , 104 the AMOTS engaged in? A To my knowledge, they didn't engage in any. Q Any political activity. Do vou know of any other activities that they have conducted within this country, they or any of their members nave conducted within this country that we have not alreacy discussed this afternoon? A No. 9 Any political activities? Any operations? No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain wba select individuals to what we call hand-nold defectors, Cuban defectors. In other words, live with them until they are resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of anv- & a Do vou know of any criminal activities that have been attribited to -- I have heard of some allegations which have never Da been proven. 63 What are the allecations? x The allegations concern break-ins and surveilliances and this type of thind. > Have those allecations been made with any fre- qjTuency? A Well, I fordqet who it was. It was during the SEC RET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library
2 if 3 i i 3 “ } Watergate trial. Some cf these allegations that came out 3 | 8 a | and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we 3 < ° made file checks and this tyne of thing. One varticular * * | activity was supposed to nave been carried out in Rockefeller . 9 4 Center in New York and it turns out lt was taken out of 9 context. ft was nraining mission and -- craining exercise. 7 These guys were being trained in Surveillance in New Yor 8 and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Manhatts ? ~~ Chase Manhattan and =s come back out and then they were » LO Supposed =o diagram the lLavout of the bank. And this to some il of them meant casing the sank when in fact it was just a 4 Le memory exercise. a a F 13 | 3 With what frequency were those kinds of trainings a i , in : ‘ < aa . “ : 3 14 | exercises conducted? Ht 25 | A Nell, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt | 16 | that these people, selecrad individuals, were to be trained i7 | in trade craze. le fl ) And did cneir ctrade craft craining include such o io | things as surveillance? 8 gi S 20 i A Sure, 3 21! 2 And break-ins? 2 £2 1 A No, Not break-ins. Nor surreptitious entry. As I i. 23 | Said, in the case of this zarticular thing, it was misinter-~ ? ; ‘ 3 24 | Dreted as casing the hanit. Thase exercises were given -- thev s i - 2 3 . = ‘Bs could have walked into vour otfice, vour outer office and: HW 50955 Docld: 32704971 Page 107 Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library RET 4 I
oh 12 Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 431G First Surcet, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20063 WARD & PAUL | oe Cr cn bed ty j! if» +2 cn | od oO fH ~2 fay) on angi Hin aa tk Be Se B 106 said -- the instructor could have said two hours later teil . f me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it? This is just for observation. 9 You stated earlier none of those allegations have been proven. ilave any of them been proved to your satisfacticn? A No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction. 92 I take it vou do not believe they took place other than the training exercise? Ay Oh, no. No. I don’t believe tney dic. 9 po you know of any instances where members of that group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry in this country? . No. , ws -Yave you ever been present at any discussions of xO the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the Miami Station within this. country? A Leqality? No. 9 Yow about the propriety? A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up. No one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or the propriety of having the Station.” -) There have been some allegations in the press and elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of that community, by the CIA. Are vou aware of those? SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld: 32704971 Page 108
fa] 3 3 ° 2 Tv a a 2 ro) a 3 o < 2 = cn —) nes WARD & PAUL Cal ras) or] Washinglon, OC. 20003 410 Pinst Sircet, 24: 25 § aD Hee Yeas BG Hn | L107 A No. | i 2 We received some correspondence and I have seen some} articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of i a resource that is occasionally tapoed by the CIA for various! operations in this country. 2 You mean this country? ge 2 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some) other examples of unusual activities. Do you nave any knowledge of use by the CIA of Cuban nationals or exiles for any type : of operation within this country? AX Ho. i | 2 Do you know whether or net the Agency has provided i any Zinancial support for Cuban businessmen in this country? : No. Not =o my knowledge. . ; i 2 Other tnan the maintenance of cover? ‘ i ; { Bs lon i ; ' Establisnment of businesses? { Mt | 2 NO? 1 i Bs No. | a in the course of our discussions today we discussed the: AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various colitical front groups, | roups. Are there any other emigre, 1Q revolutionary front 1 | i Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supported ' by the Agency, either financially or otherwise? SEC RET Photocopy from | ! Gerald Ford Library HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 109 ; -
Gl o aj Las] $ + v n n 2 a N a 2 2 t < 4 FA qn WARD & PAUL ae | tA 20 el AIO ticsl Street, S.E., Washinglun, O.C. 20003 ae 108 A Not to my knowledce. 2) Are vou familiar with the appendix that was attached to Mr. Colby?s statement? A Yes. 9) Did you nave some role in drafting that? A You mean the Miami Station thing? 9 Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station". . A Yes. 9 You wrote it? 4 Yes. 2) It has a familiar ring about it. There are referenc to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are there any others other than the ones we have been discussing? A Not to my knowledge. Bhere are, you know, if vou want, to.call-.it an oraanization, we did, vou know, subsidiz chevRellivout of Juanita Castro. 2 Yes, I am familiar with that. A You are familiar with all that and that is by the board now,’ too. Q She was. doing -= ~— A Propaganda. 2 -~ oropaganda broadcasts. . A Yes, Do you have any 2ersonal knowledge of what xind of a co intelligence-gathering activities are conducted in the Miami Photocopy from SEC RET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 110 a ern en isd
bh 13 1 Fa 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 li ; 12 2 a 3 13 a h¢ 3 14 16 1? 18 - 19 ; 20 a 2 21 3 22 5 24 : + 25 gf Hin “td BND, ie Lo9 A There are no domestic activities at all in the | All Cuban activities have been moved hack nere to Headquarters. The now is completely . and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean. a) Does the | |-- I beg your pardon -- does the Headquarters comnonent that now nandles the Cuban situation in Miami run any agents in the Cuban community? A No. Well. let me explain that to you. Ye do have a career agent who nas been with us for a good many vears and we do use nim <to contact relatives of Cubans cOUNtTIY, &2S access agents. who are still in Cuba. I mean, relatives who are in the U.S. who nave relatives in Cuba. Now, this 1s done srincipally with the idea of a r) a a] ys ty D reerultment target, det weaknesses or strengths, this g type of thing. He does contact these people all over the United States. If we come across an individual that. looks like ne might be recruitable, or verhaps we could even double him, we Will, after we make our ctreliminary assessment, and we find out where relatives ana these types of people are, we will ask this career agent cr instruct him to go contact these seople, be 1t New Yors, New Jersey, Chicago, or what~ ever. 2 So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this Photocopy from SECRET Gerald Ford Library HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 111 ee ere re a EN Ph sna enemies
SECRET HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 112 tl od Ke es TS 8 | oh 16 | g 2 a 3 li} , = 4 ¢ | A Right. + Hy “a ' a 2} ty ; a Q Just like foreicn associates would do. < “ | A Exactly. £ 4a; . ‘ t n . eh 2) Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who = : 2 i are contract emplovees of the Agency who still work in the 6 /  fiami-Cuban communit:? ql A No. None. ‘ 8 | 2 That entire apparatus nas been i 9 ' A Was been dismantled. LO | 9 -~ dismantled. “hat is the current size of the 11, | i iz} - : * . J 12 | A I really don't know but it runs between 2 2 a 2 | 7 Coot . a a as far as I know. IT think it will be ll by the next fiscal 3 z iu < Af 3 a I /ear. 15 | : MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. | 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 | MR.MANFREDI: Let's go nack on the record. f i . 18 |i BY MR. MANPREDI: i ~ 19 Q . There are >resently no Cuban Ops being conducted out 2 Ht] ~ g : G ; g 21 | aA No. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of 3 22 || deadaquarters. : el ¢ - + = 4 . = . = 25 | a) And even from the Headquarters location there are 2 a tae ot , 3 24 | no varamilitary operations? = { . 5 | Photocopy from 2 25 | A MO. Gerald Ford Library q |
SECRET tn i Photocopy from SECRET ; | Gerald Ford Library bh 17, : 3 3 Lo: ; 3 9) No covert -- well, there is some propaganda activity g 2! s | being conducted still? 4 = q o i 2 A On a very small scale, and the covert action facilit. | that we had, the radio, taped brogram, is being terminated i by 30 June. So for all practical purposes, it is terminated ! now, : 7 4 | 9 | i 8 : i A Yes. g 4 ee ; ; i f a And 1t nas seen decreased to how many people? I t 16 | : i A Betwee | 1ii . 5 Pitt es : | | Q And it has absolutely no responsibilities with | ) 12 | | 3 i respect to Cuba? z _ i Py L3 i H Q 4 A Absolutely none. < 14: 9 And 1lts responsibilities are entirely directed to | 15 3 . ; ; yj other Latin American countries? 7 A To Caribbean countries. 4 - Q Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are 18! . , | , other Agency stations in the Caribbean? 19. | o A Yes, 3 4 o i 5 20 | d ¥ ) “Neil, f have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts. | i t ? ane Tf you have anything vou vould like to add you are welcome | = ' : 22 | > i. to do so. Fy ; A No, I have nothing. : ‘ 24 | | : ) tf want to thank vou on behalf of myself and the 7 25 i i] | } ‘ ' | | Commission for vour cooperation. | HY $0955 Docld:322704971 Page 113
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