10 11 ~ 12, 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 EASTERN AIR LINES, INC.~ | IN RE: ) | ee | INVESTIGATION OF) 8 CAPT, D. W. FERRIE ) | oo | | pr peter rp ggneg) . Held on Monday, February 18, 1963, commencing at 9:15 a. Me y in the Admin: stration Building. 4400 Northwest 36th Street, Miami, Florida, re ee conse SO, os “captain Fermon Stone, Eastern Air Lines Captain Van Roland, Eastern Air Lines Captain F. Rivenbark, Eastern Air Lines Captain J. L. Tompkins, Air Line Pilots Associ:cvion APPEARANCES: | Messrs. William Bell and Sid Wheeler, attorney for astern Air Lines <-MEBDING=OF “THE ~ PILONSESSYSTEM. ADJUSTENT=BOARD- S | | Mee George Wray Gill, attorney for Captain ' COLMAN .& COLMAN, INC, BISCAYNE BUILDING MIAMI 32, FLORIDA . HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 45
10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2l MR. GILL: | Tam not at all too familiar with these hearings, and, again, ‘this is, frankly, my first appearance; but having given a lot of attention and thought 60 this gentleman's. position, I deem Lt only, consistent that before proceeding with the hearing we file with you what we consider something represent- ing his appropriate rights; then the Petition for show of Good | Paith and Clean Hands-- those arent ih proper order-- but, as I say, this is my first time-- I have an extra copy if you gentlemen should want it-- and then this other one. ‘My reference in one > of those documents was with the idea of setting a case. for hearing, and it was my understanding - it was just to agree to ‘the hearing and ‘not by any agreement on our part to waive any rights of Captain Ferrie. © That is the reference I made in there. | MR. BELL: Before we go any further, let me make it clear just where we are as far as this matter goes. | When captain Ferrie was originally removed from Pitght status, we informed him at. that time that we would take no further action until the criminal charges had been duly processed, at which time we would determine what action we sho..id take, — “We have not made any guch decision, and we are currently investigating, ‘Captain Ferrie in order to determine the racts necessary for the. ‘Company to make a ‘decision as to what action should be taken in his case. ms COLMAN & COLMAN. INC, . BISCAYNE BUILDING MIAMI 32, FLORIDA HW 54756 DBoclId:32263970 Page 46 .
10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 _ Such investigations have been a fairly common thing over the last six or eight months where a captain or a pilot has been involved in some. difficulty and'where we have had an informal hearing, sometimes with the ‘record being kept, sometimes without, and this has been held ‘by appropriate companiés and officials to determine if any action: should be taken or whether no action at | all is warranted.., | : | ‘Many times the investigation is ‘the end of it and no action= at all is taken, Many times | the investigation is made for written charges being filed and some action taken against the Company. Every employes is entitled to some type of investigation prior to the Company taking any action, | The fact that certain allegations have been made” should not be sufficient, put he should have his chance to come in to tell the story prior to. the Company taking any action, to appear as a part of his’ ‘record thereafter; and that is the status” of Captain Ferrie today, | | This is’ an’ . investigation to determine what his. side of the story ‘ts, and a good portion of what we want to investigate today arises out of not only the criminal charges that were brought | against hin, but as a result of those eriminal charges we atteapted to ‘make a thorough investigation of Captain Ferrie's past and present activity. Certain facts: came to our attention in the course f that investigation watch had revealed an indication of serious — COLMAN & COLMAN, INC. BISCAYNE BUILDING . MIAMI 32, FLORIDA . HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 47
+e 10 11 12° 13 14 15 . 17 18 19 - 20 21 A lec " ne ee discrepancies between Captain Ferrie's history as he informed us of it and as we knew of» tt at the ‘time he was hired and during the time he has continued in our ‘employment; certain facts that raised serious questions in our mind about his emotional dirfi- culties over the past and about those that have continued to the present tine, and certain facts that indicate, the possibility of serious physical difficulties. | | | | - We would like to atscuss these problems with Captain Ferrie today. We would tike to have bin go qver some of his past. history and. discuss these alleged facts that have come to our attention. . . Now, this is only a part of an investigation, but. it isa very important part in determining what final. action will be taken by the Company. As I understand it, one of the important points willbe how frank and . honest he is with us today, and when we check these facts against | ours and further investigation, as to what he tells us, how much of ‘that will stand up. | MR. GILL: I find no fault with anybody here on a personal basis, and I don't want you to misinterpret what'I say, with anybody at all conducting the’ investigation; but we tried to get specifications as to. what they wanted investigated today so we would be better prepared and not depend on the memory of Captuin Ferrie years ago, and, as you know, mr. Bell, that was denied me; and, as I say, I an ‘not’ ‘finding any fault on a ‘personal basis, because that: is the way at should be conducted, and that is the A, COLMAN & COLMAN, INC. - _BISCAYNE BUILDING. MIAMI 32, FLORIDA HW 54756 Docld: 32263970 Page 46
1 | way it 1s; but you can consider our position this morning. | 2 7 We know nothing and we are not prepared on any 3 basis. to furnish any "proof or to check any recollection or any-. 4 thing. Then, also, it seems to me that 4f that is the thought 5 | and there is some idea about his having violated some confidence 6 | or rule or regulation prior to this incident that has been com~ 7 | plained of, that a regular charge, .a specification, should be g | lodged and properly interrogated about and investigated; but for - y | the Company now to go into something chat is in the relative past, 10 before this situation that brought. about ‘Als ‘suspension, T think 11 | you should be denied that as. a matter of law, wherein that his | 12 | rights of privacy cannot bes invaded and» ‘that anything to do with 13 | any alleged misconduct has to be on the job and not off the job; 14 and anything with reference to his scope of morality that di 16 | anything concernii.:; moral turpitude could not. be inquired into 15 | actually interfere with his duties can't be inquired into, and 17 | unless it is. within the scope of his employment. 18 . on) As z say, in order to be able to answer anything-- | 19 | we came here as a “atten of courtesy, and in answer to what we 9 20. considered a formal demand; but I contest and challenge the right 21 to inquire into those things until we ean know / specifically what 22 it is, and maybe it is something that would come within the purview 23 or scope of his employment, and, if so, then you would be entitled to inquire into it and he jastly would have ta answer, otherwise, 25 |Z don't think he would have to. - > COLMAN & COLMAN, INC, : BISCAYNE BUILDING MIAMI 32, FLORIDA HW 54756 Docld:322763970 Page 49
bo 10 1 12 14 15 17 18 19 20 of not. guilty wag entered py the Court.’ We did try the case As I say, I don't consider it a question of his display of fairness or co-operation at this time, because he was suspended for a particular purpose; and that purpose has been removed. ft tried one case and he was found not guilty, and the. other cases were dismissed against hin. MR, BELL: One case was actually tried? ‘MR, GILL: Yes, sir. We tried a case and a plea before Judge MeCur,°and what happened-- as I say, I don't say this with any reference of any wrongdoing on the part of the. District Attorney, becaiise I know ‘Ain, and I know all of them over there, and they are very fair and splendid people-- but we filed motions for a Bal of Particulars | on each and every day that | Captain Ferrie was charged with committing an offense, and he was actually on flight duty. cand up in the air in one of your airplanes. MR. BELL: Which case was he found not guilty of? MR, GILL: = will get it our for you. When that was made known to the: District Attorney by his checking the records 7 in your office in New Orleans, then the boys were called back in | and they were_ under excellent tutelage at that time by two vicious. detectives from New orleans; and the boy remembered other dates; and we went in and beat one of those and showed that they were absolutely false and positively. untrue. ; | ‘The District Aetorney then finally got a hold of the other young man- vin the case and had nim come in to his office _ COLMAN & COLMAN, INC, - BISCAYNE BUILDING. a. 2 MIAMI 32. FLORIDA 0, HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 50
10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 . 22 23 HW 54756 24 25 and interrogated him, and I understand he spoke to you on the telephone; and this young man told the District Attorney how he . was brought in this situation by these. detectives and he ald that it. was basically untrue; and that having been cleared up, I think Captain Ferrle is ready, for reinstatement, unless you have any- thing else. ‘if you do, -then I ‘think | this 18 the proper time and ‘| forum to file them. MR. BELL: _ We understood from the. District Attorneys . in both Parishes chat both cases were nol-prossed. . . oR, omit That is correct, except for the first one| q tried in New (Orleans, « ‘and you have that: record. We sent it to you, showing a. plea of not guilty. if you have them here, I can point | Lt out ‘to you. : | | MR, BELL: I don't have it here, but I will refresh that. | - | . : MR. GILL: He was found not guilty by Judge McCune . MR. BELL: Let ug understand one thing, With an airline captain we believe that, the matters which bear on his job - are much wider than, for example, if he was a cleaner out here that|" cleans our ‘hallways; and: ‘things iike mental problems, whenever they - ' come to light, are going, to be looked into very thoroughly. MR, GILL: But. that was ‘not the cause of his su..- vension, What you are ‘teleing about is money and the ‘right: to be veinstated; and once that has been straightened out, then if there is another cause for removal, that should be an extra hearing. “ae | . COLMAN & COLMAN, INC. BISCAYNE BUILDING MIAMI 32, FLORIDA — Docld:322763970 Page 51
2ST OR eT Ee Te ET a a a nae ER CU © 10 11 12 13 4 15 16 17 18 19 20 al 22. 23 24 25 8 has his constitutional rights now, and we can't abate them or. violate them; it just can't be done. | _ MR. R. BELL: Well, you have filed a grievance ace... the matter of reinstatement which will be processed. The Company's position is that it is ‘going to continue its investigation and the determine what final action is: going to be taken in the case of Captain Ferrie. | This is. part of the investigation, We have certain matters we intend: to inquire into. MR, erLL: Well, I: have hesitated to go into Court on it because I hoped we would settle 4t, put I have already | prepared the cases, as: you will see from some of these pleadings; and this man is on the beach and he ts in a hell of a fix finan-~ cially. if tt hadn't been for me, he wouldn't have known what to | do. He is a very splendic man, a very smart and brilliant person | and he has done a lot of research work for. me, ‘done it very well and creditably. If Lt wasn't for the fact that I was able to help hin, I. dont t know what he would have done. MR. BELL: Well, tr think your position ‘is elear, . and I think our position is clear, Now, .we. are ready to proceed, | if Captain Ferrie agrees to answer our questions. MR. GILL: Suppose you tell me what you would like _— to know so I will know whether I should acvise hin-~ I mean to let. him proceed blindly into the interrogation which you have prepared, and where you ‘are sitting behing the gun, sO ‘to speak; and if he <" COLMAN & COLMAN. ING. “) . BISCAYNE BUILDING .°-, mo, ' MIAMI 32, FLORIDA ¢* Tho: HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 52
10 ol 12 14 °15 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 Ito answer it. 9 : - not only doesn't know what you. want to know, but he probably can't answer your questions unless he is given some time, and, secondly, I think the time for specifications and charges on those specifi- cations has elapsed, it “has gone bye I don't think you have a right to question hin, but if you tell me what it is, please, <.2, and I say this with all. ‘deference and respect, we might talk with. him and see: ar there is: ‘something that: doesn't -invade his. privacy walch comes within the purview of your. ‘Proper investigation, then I will advise. him to answer, oo MR. BELLA “The first thing. I would like for him t give us is a quick sunnaryoe his educational background starting with bis college were : co a . a | Mi qaEty pits wens sone thine that you could | have told me something about over ‘the te}ephone when I talked to you some time ago. J think that is hte private life ‘and something that has already been gone into, I think, if you will check those cases (Andteating)}, you will find out that you have no right to ask him that. If he | wants on his own to answer it and believes that his memory ‘4s accurate enough, why, that is up to him; but I don't think he has “MR. BELL: T am asking, would you. describe to us . your college education background? | CAPTAIN FERRIE: Mr. ‘Bell, " Section 29, Sub-section A; paragraph rs of ‘the contract specifically states that the pilots COLMAN & COLMAN. INC. : BISCAYNE BUILDING MIAME. 32. FLORIDA . oo HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 53 .
10 ll 12 14 15 416 17 18 20 21 22 23 {you give it to me so tf might check at for my own edification? ‘It is in the matter of o'Net3 versus I.M. shall not be required to give testimony or furnish any evidence prior to the actual time of the investigation and hearing.. | | oR. (BELLE I want to make it very clear to you that we have tested these things before the neutrals and we have a (clea neutral's decision that we are entitled to inquire into facts whic bear upon the man's, duties and qualifications on the job, and refusal to answer these’ questions and to co-operate in this in- vestigation is in itself a separate and distinct ground for oo disciplinary action. | - MR. GILL: Could | you do this, Mr. Bell, could you give | us a little memorandum--- we. will take it down-- I am not . trying to ask that you write 1t-- so we will know exactly what 7 you want to know, and let us talk it over with him? | 7 | MR. BELL: No. rt can give you a general outline. I am going to inquire into his educational background, I am going to inquire into his physical background, I am going to inquire into any history of mental problems, I am going ‘to. inquire into certain charges that. were brought against him in New orleans. MR, GILL: What is that neutral's decision? Would MR. BELL: "I will furnish you with ao copy of it.. MR. GILL: O'Net1 versus who? MR. BELL: Well, at ‘is not O'Neil versus. ‘I, Mea but it is in the matter of O!Net1. He. was an I.M, eaployee. . COLMAN & COLMAN, ING. ‘BISCAYNE BUILDING" . 7 MIAMI 32. FLORIDA © a are HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 54
tO _ CAPTAIN TOMPKINS: ‘Is that all the information you~ 9 | can give us on. that? MR, BELL: I told him I would furnish him a copy 4 | of it.” . - 5 a | CAPTAIN ONPEINS: I see. 6 MR. “Orit: Would you have a copy that I could read o_ ~| now? This is new to me, and I don't ‘pretend to know all there is | to know about its but if I could see it, I could. discuss the 8 C9 | situation in light of that decision, 10 | (Document is handed to Mr. Gill. ) 11 = - MR, GILL: Can we have about ten minutes alone with 12 this gentleman in an office SO we can go over this? 13 - MR. BELL:', You can’ use this office, if you like. a 4 OO MR. GILL: Thank you, sir. 15 a a (Thereupon, a short recess was taken, after which iD 16 | the foliowing proceedings were had: ) | wv | | MR, GILL: . Having checked this page 72 of the 18 contract, Section 295. Paragraph 4, 1f we should answer anything we iW may be. knocked out of the courtroom by virtue ‘of having made a 20 | waiver. I don't think we have a right to waive it and I don't 21 ‘believe he should. In the absence of that, I don't see how he can | 22 | answer your questions. ‘Then, £00, Like the issues that are sought 23 to be determined here,, in this Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen 24 and Smith, where the. Supreme Court held that when a contract be- 25 | tween the union and the railroad produced an illegal result, the . 7 COLMAN & COLMAN, INC. : BISCAYNE BUILDING MIAMI 32. FLORIDA HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 55 .
10 11 12 14 15 17 18 " 19. 20 a1 -22 23 24 25 | | | | 12 _ courts are not the neutrals,, but ‘that the Railroad Adjustment Board has Jurisdiction. oe "So here we have a situation where this gentleman: has given his physical background years ‘ago and his educational background years 380, and. if a copy of those. can be furnished to you and you wish ‘to ask ‘Specific. questions about, it, where he may have made a mistake or an: error or misstatement of fact,. why, . we will try to give you whatever we can; - ‘but in. the. absence o! of. that, we don't know what he said; we ‘don! t know what you want, we ‘don! to have the questions. | | | ‘Now, about his physteal, ‘background, I think that is something ‘that addresses . itself to the F. A, A, who gave. hin. his license, and L think that would be the proper forum to decide as to his ‘physical, fitness, ‘But, again, you would have to give us that, and we request the ai questions that you want answered; and as to his mental problems, I don't believe my man is capable of determining mental problems for himself. ‘That would be something that ‘you would have * to ask hin ‘questions about under aifferent circumstances at “aigterent instances and’ then give hin a chance to explain it, and - that. then would come “under the prerogative of a psychiatrist. r think we should have one , present, “if that is going to be gone into, 7 If you want a physical, I think you have a right to ask for that; and then go to the proper department to ‘check his mental capacity - jat the time as to. the. charges in ‘New Orleans. ‘Obviously, some of © COLMAN & COLMAN, INC. “.-  BISCAYNE BUILDING Meet “MIAMI ‘32. FLORIDA HW 54756 Docld:322763970 Page 56
10 iu 12 13 14 15 16 meu 48 19 20 T "questions you might propound would | be in a spirit of co-operatizcn, 22 23 24 25 HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 57 13 the departments have furnished you with the proper information because, as I say; he did go to trial’ and’ was’ found not guilty on the one charge and the other charges were then thereafter dismissed based primarily upon the fact. that he had been found not guilty in the original case, and also by statements from that young man. I think you have a “letter from hin and a call from him, stating that it was basically untrue. I think that has been explained in the correspondence that you have.. I think Captain Ferrie! 8 answer would be that. he was| found not guilty on one and the others were dismissed. He plead not i guilty and wasn't guilty of then. Again, if you: would ask specific : questions on that, we would try to answer; so if you would give . them to us, we will see We we can get him to answer ‘them for you. | I don't want to waive our right to object to any specifications, because qt don! t think that you can 1 give them now and demand that they be answered because of the lapse of time prior to the filing of the original letter to come here; and, secondly, I say we can't waive anything for him and don't want to continue that way. _— . Last but. not least, I think that the only reason why we should in any way try to acquiesce in answering any specific but I don't think that. applies at all.. This decision was someth2: that had to do on the ‘grounds of the Company, and certainly they had a right to, inquire;’ and, secondly, had this gentleman who OMe . decided this case had the law available to him, I don't ‘think he. “. BISCAYNE BUILDING: |. "2, COLMAN & COLMAN, ING. |” eo - 7 oo Soa. -- MIAMI 32, FLORIDA. ‘
nA ace 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HW 54756 Pay at <a eT 2 Net ESET SEES thik ante in RE TR nO 14 would have decided this,way, except on premises. oR, BELL: Mr. Kehoe 1s a fudge in-- | MR. “ILL: “I know he is, but sometimes we don't | look up the law. I have een ‘in that position where I didn't do it and was sorry later}: “but under these. decisions, I think this. - decision 4s wrong. a : 7 | : - MR. BELL: | is what you are saying that you will answer written questions ‘but not oral questions?. | | | | MR.. GILL I want: you to give us the ‘questions so we can know what they are, and then after we get then, and’ only . | then, can I tell you, first of all, if we can answer them, and, second, it we want ‘to. answer then, and, third, if answering any specific question would hurt his legal position in the Court, and, | aif 50; I would advise hia not to. answer them. Only when we get. them ean we make. the determination as to what we. will do. I don't want to mislead you by saying we will answer: them, I don't now; but I ‘think that we are. ‘entitled to that because this man--. you have his application, you have all of the answers that you asked; and I think we should at least: be furnished with a copy of that, too, along with your questions; because until we get that, we don't] - know what we are doing. Le . | It. is Just like the. question, Af you quit beatin: your wife. If you | answer it yes, ‘you must have been beating her, | you couldn't have stopped. So unless we know what we are doing, we. just can't. answer the cuestions. | I don't mean that anybody + is _ _ COLMAN & COLMAN. ING. -. , BISCAYNE BUILDING oo. _.. MIAML 32, FLORIDA ~ Docld:32263970 Page 53
10 11 12. 13 14 16 17 18 419 20° ‘21 22 23 24 trying to. Pose any trickery, I. don't mean that at all; but if this man was your elient, you, would want that. MR. BELL: ‘Do ‘you understand that you can " supplemen any answers that he gives today, if you feel they should be supple mented at a later time? - One of the purposes of having this hearin is to hear from Captain Ferrie himself directly, his answers to these questions; and you also understand that acting as representa-| — tive of the Company, we: "are at. this time directing Captain Ferrie to co-operate with us in this investigation, and we are directing him at this time ta answer the questions. | : | The first "question which has been posed to him was : to outline his. college» education £0 us. . ao MR. GIL: You see, it is just. like having a man | that has both \ legs broken and. telling him to walk, and if he | doesn't walk, he can be!punished. You won't give him a crutcii, and I insist you give him a crutch since you are asking him specific questions. You cannot ask hin: to be an instrument of his own conviction or destruction, because he may leave something. out and he may , forget something. | | | ‘If you have his original application and the. original documents that -he signed, if you will give that to us ‘now and if there is anything about that. that you wish to question. | hin, why, I wili advise. him to answer. . But unless we know what you want-- I mean, you. have no right to go! on a fishing expedition at his expense. - (COLMAN & COLMAN, ING. | “; >: BISCAYNE BUILDING. ~' "MIAMI 32, FLORIDA AW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 59
100 11 “2 414 17 18 19 20 21 23 24, 25 Th 16 |would give it to > yous MR. GILL: I.don't think you have a right to zo into all of his previous conduct. Ir you feel that he has done something wrong. you should: make the charges. You had investigato 8 out, and some. of them offered one of these witnesses $100 to frame | this. man. ‘it hasn't been too ntce; and---. | - | 7 oR. BELL: woud you give us the name of the witnes 2 MR, GILL: : Jack Martin. wees MR, GILL: Yes, sir. That 1s correct, isn't 1t? CAPTAIN FERRIE: Yes. - . MR, GILL: And they have ‘been handling some of the other witnesses a Little rough, ‘like. police would do in a line-up. 2 As I say, they | haven't treated. this man ‘exactly right, and I wou want a hearing and Ir think we “ought ‘to:'have what we get in Court. If this was, a Court. proceeding, I would be entitled to a | Bilt of Particulars. You would : have to give that to me, | | | MR. BELL: Mr. e111, as I have informed you several |, : times, we have not ceoted whether any. charges are warranted against Captain Ferrie or not what final action should be taken has not been decided. We are attempting to make an investigat_ on. MR. GILL: But. you seen to have the ‘investigation already completed in your mind, Mr. Bell. -If you had a son that was being interrogated, ‘don't you think he should have what he signed before? Don't you think that is staple fairness? Ido. I oe COLMAN & COLMAN. ING. ._ "-. BISCAYNE BUILDING — - 7 MIAMI 32. FLORIDA © HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 61
10 11. "42 > 13 14 IS 17 18 “9 20 - 21 22 23 24 25 of Privacy. 18 . You seen. to have your decision already made because there is something about: the questions you are figuring he will | be tripped upon or that he cant answer, and I don't think it is fair. i think he should be given his statement s. that he signed. “would this be considered, Mr. Bell, as actually a part of the tnvestigetion, ,this hearing? - MR. BELL: ‘This is not a hearing, it is an - investigation. MR. GILL: This would be considered part of the investigation? » | MR. BELL: That is right. a —— - Would you tell us if you ever attended St. Charles - Seminary in Ohio? To our best recollection, he stated in the oo application form that he did. . | : MR. GILL: I would respectfully request that all. the questions be deferred until we get the application about which he is ‘being questioned, - | 7s | MR, “BELL: I will have to tell you, Mr. Gill, Ae : many of these questions’ do not: have anything to do with the application form;- they | have to do with other activities. MR. GILL: ‘The. law says that ‘you can't do that. “Kelly Plow. versus ‘London in 7 Cc; J. Sey lst and end., says that you | can't invade the privacy of any’ employee. That is headed Right Can we “make this’ ae part, of ‘the record, a letter "2° COLMAN & COLMAN, ING, | . BISCAYNE BUILDING - " MIAMI 32. FLORIDA HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 62
re | oo ag oe 1 |from Eastern Air Lines dated March 23, 1953 to Mr. D. W.. Ferrie, 2 |Eastern Air Lines, Inc., Moisant Airport, New Orleans, Louisiana, | 3 |"My dear Dave:--" eS | | | | | 4 | | MR. BELL: We will just have him copy them and have 5 | them attached.” | me | . : a | | - 6. | | | OM, GILL: Would you do that, and could I get them 8 7 MR. BELL! Yes. | | S 9 |. | “MR. GILL: | And also the letter from Mr. Halliburton 10 to Mr. Ferrie, with a’ copy of at to G. E, Griener. | | 11 / MR. BELL: Yes. . oe | 12 mR. ert: I would like to do the same with the - 43 | letter from Helen Jeanne Naata and also a letter from z. Ss. Martin, | 14 Sr. I would like to nalce J. S. Martin, Sr.ts letter part of this “15: hearing and also the letter from Helen Jeanne: Naatz. He makes a a 16 | statement in here about the agent spesieing to him, Would you want | 17 | to make a. copy of: that, “boo? ~ | Bo wR. BELL: Yes, | | _ (MR: OTLL: Twat want to introduce the two other letter a | - oR BELL: The other letters I have taken out to be BY | “MR. GILL: Fine. oo 24 MR. BELL: Let the record show that I am handing 25 Mr. Gill the application form signed by Captain Ferrie for (emp Loy- , COLMAN & COLMAN. ING, — oe, BISCAYNE BUILDING oo) MIAMI 32. FLORIDA HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 63
10, cee 12] -. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21. 22 ~ 23 HW 54756 24 25 7 ae — 20. |. ee io ment with Eastern: ‘Air Lines. . “His educational records are on the third page there. MR. QILL:: Without waiving any rights of ‘Ais that he may have under the. rules and regulations and under his contract, we can. ‘stipulate that this is: correct. . . MR. ‘BELL: I would like to ask him if he attended St. Mary’ 8. ‘Seminary during the period of 1938 to 19H in Cleveland, nto. a | ner - | 7 | MR. GILL: Is that on here (1nateating)? MR. BELLI 3 It doesn't appear. on there. | MR. GILL: if this is for the purpose of trying toa show a mental -aberation, I don't think this s is the proper forum. I think we should have’ a -pyschiatrist here, too, of whom we may - ask questions, if that. is the purpose of it. of am trying to figure out why you want it, and you tell mea reason; ‘but you haven't. asked sonething about mental - stability here. I figure that is you reason, | | Jie | | MR. BELL: Are you ‘refusing to answer the question on behalf of. Captain Ferrie or not? Will he answer ‘the questiloi a ne | CAPTAIN FERRIE: within the framework of the con- tract and the law as stipulated, RE will be happy - ‘to: outside of’. ‘the - provisions of ‘the contract and the. law, I shall not. MR. BELL: Dia you attend St. ‘Mary's Seminary in Cleveland, ohio during the period of 1938 to 1ghor ARS ‘GILL: Well, now, oan Ir ask you the purpose of “COLMAN & COLMAN. INC. CoS 7 -BISCAYNE BUILDING .- °° ot: _. MIAMI 32, FLORIDA, Docld: 322763970 Page 64
10 11 13 iy. 15 47 18. ' 19 20 21 the question? I think that. is only fair, and then I will advise | hin as ‘to whether he should. answer it or not.’ MR. BELL: ‘Ie it is true that he did, I want to ask him why he cree not put it on the employment record. I want to ask hin the reason ‘tor leaving ‘it out. MR. GILL: i don't think you can inquire as to his. private life. It advise him not to answer that. | 2 | a MR,. BELL: Would you 1 explain the reason wy you. ‘left Ste Charles Seminary? MR. GILL: I say, again, it is inquiry Anto his. private 1: life and I see where it has nothing to do with the contrac yo and I advise him that he would not be unco-operative not to answer the question. _ ae a _ oO = oe oR, BELL: Were you dismissed from St. Charles Seminary for mental and emotional, reasons? : | OM. OIL: 3 For the, same. reason I advise him not to. “answer, and I further state that to ask a man a question about his own condition, it would, ‘be rather foolish; second-- I don't mean - , you are foolish, don't aisunderstand me-— secondly, if there is_ “any r reason as. to why he.’ was dismissed for any mental aberation, rr want ‘the privilege of. ‘questioning that person. a cae I just recently ‘had a handwetting expert on the | witness stand, and ‘when: I got through with hin, there was somethin ‘different ‘with every letter; and the government later learned that the man didn't write the letter,. yet. the + handwrt ting expert, in ~ GOLMAN & COLMAN. ING. BISCAYNE BUILDING — coe oO MIAMI 32, FLORIDA HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 65
22. oy | good faith, said that he did. | oo Oo MR. BELL: ‘I do take it that on his behalf you are 4 advising hin ‘to refuse to answer it? | 4 7 - MR, GILL: We refuse to answer because it is not 5 a question, first of all, that he could answer, that the records: | jg | of that place would be the best evidence, and testimony from a people there would be the best evidence, ‘and giving us the right g | to cross-examine them to see if there was a matter of any definite ‘J/g «| reason as stated on the ‘record or whether it was just prejudice 19 | or some other reason, cn | | | | wu | | : As I Just" stated about the handwriting expert, a. 12 Lot of times people in. good faith make'a _eonscientious: mistake, ; 13 I don't think he is a person, to whom that question should be * 14 addressed. I think it 4 an improper question in the sense that a — 15 {ite shouldn't be asked of hin,: and Las. his attorney, tell him he -- 16 would not be. failing to® ‘co-operate to refuse. to answer the question -o meu a aos MR. BELL? _Have you ever been treated for emotional. 18 problems by a doctor?. ‘fe | 7 as | : 7 19 - J MR. . QTLs! . to answer for the 20 | same reason, a s be : | ae oes : ; _ - ; | . at | MR, BELL: Were you | ever under the care of Dr. a. K. 22 Gardner in Cleveland, Ohio? aa = oe MR, “OL: I advise hin not to answer for the same. 24 reason, | | * a MR. BELL: Are you refusing each time your attorney! : , COLMAN & COLMAN, INC. : ae! oo . " . BISCAYNE BUILDING a _ MIAMI 32, FLORIDA WW 54756 Docld: 32263970 Page 66
1 | advised youmt to. answer? 3 So MR. GILL: No. I am advising him. 37 | - CAPTAIN -FERRIE: T am n refusing to answer on the 4 ‘grounds: previously stated, that af you will stick inside of the 5 | federal law, the decisions of the Court and the contract, I will, og be happy to answer it; ‘but when you violate the law and the’ - con : — tract, I cannot.» I. consider that» a waiver of my rights. MR. GILL: And, secondly, 1 advise him that he > 8 _ 9 shouldn! t answer on his ‘constitutional prerogative and because of - 19 | the nature, of the “questions and the nature of the inquiry, 11 - 7 MR. BELL ‘Were you ever under the care of Dr, 1g | Wilfred Gi11 in Cleveland, Ohio? | 3 | - oo MR, GILL: Same reason. In other words, should he 14 .| say yes and should he say that he was dismissed because ‘of some 15 question of he didnt eonfora | to the seminary work-- well, once tT 46 studied for the Episcopal ministry and thought i. would like it. 17 | Well, I didn't Like tee ‘That doesn't mean I'am erazy, I don't ° | 18 believe. But, anyway, tt fe something that should be better ine 19 quired of the people that ha an interest in the matter, You must 20 have some 2 evidence. re! “you are seeking to pursue it the way you ae a are-~ and I. don't: mean» to criticise your method of inquiry, Me. 2) Bei, I don't | mean it that way-- but I don't think that. this is. 23 something that. ‘this man. “should be called upon to answer in the 24 absence of recoras and people that. can place themselves before you 295 and give us: a: 1 eight to examine them. . COLMAN & COLMAN, INC. BISCAYNE BUILDING pe ea MIAMI. 32, FLORIDA ©’ of On es AW 54756 $=Docld:32263970 Page 67
10 oy co. I 15 17 18 19 7 a 22 ys have prepared, and let us take thea and let us study them, we will MR. BELL: Did you ever live in Tampa, Florida? MR. GILL: If that has anything to do with that same inquiry, the method of it-- as I say, I don't Inow-- What is it) you wish to show by that, Mr, Bel? ‘You see, you have got all | those questions and we don't know what you want. | MR. BELL: “We have a report 1! that he ‘lived at one time in Tampa, Florida, or held himself out to live in Tampa, _ Florida. We want to Anquire into the acouracy of that, and if so, | why did it not appear on his employment form. | 7 2 | te MR. ort: Well, was ‘that asked of him? ‘MR, BELLY All ‘places where he lived were asked (of ARS ort: As I say, being absolutely ignorant and in the dark as to the purpose of the question, and until that is further made clear, whether it ties in with this. other situation that you have been seeking to! ; anguire into, I respectfully advise him not to answer it. ov : Bee | | | a MR. “BELL: Did you ever attend the Sunnyside “Fiying School din Tampa, Florida? a MR. GILL: could I suggest this, Mr. Bell, if you . could let me. have your: “lst of questions, which I see that you do. tell you whether he can: answer en, : i MR. BELL: I want to hear ‘captain Ferrie's answers jin Person by himself. "That is one of the purposes of this hearing 3 vi COLMAN & COLMAN, ING. . Foy “ “. . . BISCAYNE BUILDING ae MIAMI 32, FLORIDA HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 68
10 11 44 “45 . 17 18 19 20 21 22 23° 24 25 to-= CAPTAIN FERRIE: Mr. Bell, I would be happy to give you my answers in person orally when ait is within, the framework of the contract and you provide | them to me in writing, | | | MR. GILL: ‘He is, supposed to have them that way.. | oR, “BELL: Do you. object to the question? Did you | ever attend the ‘Sunnyside Flying School in Tampa? | . CAPTAIN FERRIE: | ‘I object ‘to the question : as put to me orally prior to the contract requirement of having them put to me in writing. I. can't make ‘that more ‘lear $0 yau, Mr, Bell. You a are outside of the contract, you: are ‘trving to, deprive | me of ” my rights. oa | 7 7 ee a . : _ "MR, BELL: Have ee or . hay fever? | : | | | 7 a | ; MR, GILL: Same objection. Me. Bell, is ‘this flyt . school-- I don't ‘know the purpose of that.» if we could. get the | witnesses in here today, we could go ‘through everything you have there. a . me | . 7 | MR. BELL: Mr. Gill, I am trying to explati to you,. a as I did many times, that we are inquiring after facts, we are not. aking any. allegations, that he ever lived in Tampa, Florida; we ar not making, any allegations he ever attended sunny side Flying Sehoo in Tampa, Florida, but. we are _Anguiring after facts. Now, this. ‘4s ‘not a hearing where charges” are being preferred, “It may be ‘that these facts are totally irrelevant, ‘but “<3 COLMAN & COLMAN, ING, 6". : " ". BISCAYNE BUILDING * MIAMI 32, FLORIDA - HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 69
“4 [we don't know .until we can determine the facts. MR. ort: Ie shouldn't be pursiied. Being a lawyer 2 . 3 myself, I know the hazards of answers that are given inproperly and 7 4 given too quickly. We don't know what we. are doing. Mr. Ferrie 5 doesn't remember at his. ‘time about this flying ‘school you asked - about. Maybe after some - short deliberation, he may have some recol - 7 lection. He might | have ‘known, ‘somebody there, maybe somebody. ‘who g | has a feeling of enmity: I think he ‘should have. these in writing: since you have them, ‘and apparently you. have a great number of the S - 9 19 | and I think we . “ought, to know what we are doing, and we donit : cnow | . au now. | | | “ag | oe T may be just a plain fool, but I just don't 2ke” | . 2B to advise people in the Courtroom about. ‘things that are very | 14 serious to their future and upon which the answers could be predi- | 15 cated to be right or wrong for them to 0 answer. oo 16 . MR. ‘BELL: Have “you at any time administered 17. | medicine to yourself by the use “of a hypodermic, or had the habit - 18 of treating yourself with a ‘hypoderate? oo 1g = a MR. “GILL: Well, ae the man had sugar in his system | a) one tame, maybe he ‘aid; “but to answer yes, it. might be inferred se that he used. dope. T. think it is an unfair ‘question, I advise | nia 00 cold turkey not. even to think ‘about it. 88 : Fe MR. BELL: When you were arrested in New Orleans - 24 in regard to these charges, did you have. in your possession a 25 medical. bag containing. medical. instruments and a hypodermic? - : COLMAN & COLMAN. INC. 2 _BISCAYNE BUILDING a MIAMI 32, FLORIDA . HW 54756 Docld:322763970 Page 70 .
er eerie dine pep ee SEGRE eT oer amen onieetene Domh et ew HW 54756 _ ow ag ae 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 MR. GILL: I see where that forms no part of an inquiry, in that the man has a Ph. D. if he najored in medicine, | I guess he could have anything; but Tt dontt see where that has anything to do with the’ hearing. - | - MR. BELLE Are “you stating he is. a Ph.D., or did you say if he was? | “OMR. “GILL: I understand he is a Ph.D. MR. BELL: Captain Ferrie, would you tell us where . and at what college you: ‘obtained any Ph, Dd. a | _ a CAPTAIN, FERRIE: If you put the question in writing Ss in the contract, I will be happy to answer it, Mr, Bell. Stick : within the contract and the law, and I will co-operate. As long as you don't, I cannot. : a my a 7 ee tie. | MR. “BELL: —— Ferrie, were you ever employed by the Benedict High sehool in Cleveland, ‘Ohio? | Oo mR. GILL: There is no use in ‘you wasting your time or we wasting ours. or these other gentlemen's time unless you give . us something in writing, so that I ean tell hin what I think is a right and wrong for him: to answer. You have the questions and you ~ won't give them to Us. and I have asked you for them quite some time ago and you told me that I couldn't. get them. This is just an inquiry. Now, you named four ‘things here and you have, ap- parently, five or “gix pages of questions, and I will advise him 7 to co-operate with you. tothe fullest extent, ‘and he said that he would co-operate if you would come within the four walls of the “COLMAN & COLMAN. ING.. “-, BISCAYNE BUILDING | - MIAMI 32, FLORIDA, Docld: 322763970 Page T1
to 14 15 > 16 AT 18 21 . 22 93 4 25 contract, and that is all you have a right to do. . | | i mean, you have had investigators around. New . | Orleans that haven't. been pursuing the investigation according to Hoyle, as F: would see it; and $ just don't think we should do that anymore. | ; | | You have ‘questions to ‘ask, and I sould know what you are talking about because it may be ‘that after we get into thea) he will answer every question; but I think wa, anouag have a pient to sit down and know what: ne is called Upon to do, ‘He has hie constitutional prerogative, it can't. be taken ‘away. from him no- ~e matter how much we may try. I am going to advise him, unless you do give us the questions and if we can: be called upon to answer | them, that there is no use in going into it any further, and it is not a refusal ‘to co-operate on his part; at is a refusal upon yours. ‘You are re- | fusing to co-operate by: giving us a fair ‘chance: to make = a ‘fair | answer. - - a There: 13 no trickery to be resorted to, and I know you don't intend it that way, put that is. the summation. - I MR. BELL: I Informed you previously that if you feel that the answers: ‘that he gives now need to be supplemented, | you can at a later date. _supplenent them, — MR. QTL: I won't know what these. questions are necessarily ata later date. If you “give thea to me and af we can keep: ‘them an hour, maybe we can answer thems or if we can maybe. COLMAN & COLMAN. ING! BISCAYNE BUILDING <0. ee as MIAMI'32, FLORIDA: 0S ck HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page f?
10 “au "2 42 25 HW 54756 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 a? to ask hin, wee i |keep them longer, but I will tell you the truth about it, and as of now, I “just don't. see any use of going into it. I can't talk to him every time you ask a question » and decide whether Lt is. a proper thing to do. One question may [eo into the other. I don! t. see how: we, can gO | on “with “it.. T.see no reason to, #0 on. cbt Me . 2 OM. BELL: : Thave few more questions I would Ike MR. GILL: | Ie you insist we stay, we wai} atay; but that is ay advice ‘to hia. now as. ‘to every question, ‘an wetting to the Company that. the cause of ‘these ariminal charges, being filed against you’ in New. orleans was | the» {nfyuence of a Communist state in local governnent. | ‘Is that ‘the: pausen=-i iy MR. BELL: "Captain Ferrie, you previously | stated , | MR! rE: Sane objection, sir. - MR, BELL: Captain Ferrie, you previously indicated to the - Company in writing that you know the panes of Communist fellow travelers eaployed by Eastern Ae Lines. Would you give us| > | | CAPTAIN FERRI; You are out of your r jurisdiction. : “MR, ort: Wait. or ‘think that is something that | ! should not be inquired into here. I thinl. that is a prerogative | of the FBI or a secret hearing. I : certainly advise him to Keep: that | to himsélf. a UR. “BELL: It is your position then that any - COLMAN & COLMAN, ING. : BISCAYNE. BUILDING = “MIAMI. 32, FLORIDA © Docld: 322763970 -Page 3
1 | Communist employees that he knows of that are in the. employ. of | 2 Eastern Air ‘Lines, and. you 80 state, ‘that he has a right to keep 3 secret from the. Company? | | | | | 4 : —— a - MR. ‘GILL: “Definitely not, put I think inquiry has 6 to be made in the proper manner, not in an inquiry like this where a 6 {| it is going to , be in a public record. I don't think | we should q «| Andulge in that here. That should be a matter of a secret ‘session.|_ og I wouldn't talk about it. Lo | = 9 | a a MR. “BELLE well, how could the Company inquire into o 10 | the name s of these Communists ‘in anymore of a secret meeting than 4 we have. here?” | : . : | . - : ve a | . / 7 MR. crit: Because this can, and very likely surety | | ee will become part of the. ‘Federal Court record, | and t think that. | - ae -should be handled-- I am, trying to: ‘talk to ‘Captain Ferrie privately) os ane quietly where nothing is being as a matter of a hearing except ay 1 the notes you are takeing gown, | | | ar 7 oe | MR, BELL: all right. Will you wae o eu questions af we go off the wsoondt - } oo ; a o MR: GILL: I advise him not to. It. doesn't come oe aon within the prerogative | of this investigation. a me a MR. BELL: If during the course of the Company's 22 | investigation 1t should determine that/a part of this investigation 23 that at wants you to take a complete physical and mental exami: “4 tion, “would you be willing to do ‘that by doctors selected by the Company and ‘at the Company's expense? COLMAN: & COLMAN, INC. - BISCAYNE BUILDING. — _ MIAME 32, FLORIDA pe cee ee et atte eet te HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 740 ST SEEN 2 AS DE dn nance nner renennremiing iae us lN nanan! at :
smal Laveen BSE eT ER SER Fone COR ana oncaiTan Ur aie, sina aa caw arte adem aennrnbe te cRA CAE NS TESA AGA CE es mn an A 31 4 i oe MR. QTL “ae that is within the contract that he —— should ao that, why, the’ answer would certainly be yes; af not, it 3 [would be. no. og t - | MR, BELL: Can you give us an answer now? an: DG : "> CAPTAIN FERRIE: | Exception on the Company choice. . 6 |. an MR, GILL: I don't know enough about what the con- 9 tract. says. og ap | eAPrATN 9 TOMPKINS: Mr, Bell ons sean ta of OO 9 that. He a deals with it. all the time. ag _ _ oa MR GILL | What does the contract hold, Mr. ‘Bell? zs on 7: a | MR. BELL: The Company normally, if they have any | | ; “a questions about physical gondition, they have a ‘pight to-- mental pe . 43 | eonastton « as we interpret ite they have a right to have the man — ag examined. If the man does not. agree with the results of that 15 examination, he: ‘ean. have an examination by his. own set of physicia S5 Gy. - 16 | and if they disagree ‘with the Company’ s physicians, they get to- | 41 gether and select. a ‘third set. of " physicians | who. make the final 18 examination. co i GILL: | weil, since the natter is in the con- 200 tract, it is a “matter of choice with him, the one that he is calle al upon to answer, I. say that they have a  pight to: do it; but he - woul 2 certainly, I imagine, resist it. under the light of the fact that , 3 they are trying to keep from paying him all that money. I don't - 24 think he should say anything that may impertt his “position in any 25 - oe , oe way at all. -- » COLMAN & COLMAN, INC, ~~ | Bae ' BISCAYNE. BUILDING . =.’ MIAMI 32, FLORIDA - HW 54756 Docld:327263970 Page 75
49 oa oe) cee “16 20 "99 23 24 25 ore CAPTAIN FERRIE: May I supplement? MR. GILL: Certainly. CAPTAIN FERRIE: In the course of my employment, I shall undergo such examinations as the Company shall peautnes = while I am off the payroll and being subject to inquisition, © no, naturally. = a ec . 7 ; - | | : 7 OR, GILL: | “Whatever the contract says, that would be oe bane oe a a | | - CAPTAIN FERRIE! I will. undergo any physical examination the Company . wants: while under employment. | This is not part of the contract. | | | | MR, BELL: You stated during this hearing previousl ye or your attorney stated, that: you are “acquainted with a J. 3, Martin. Will “you tell us what Mr. Martin does for a living? : . | ‘CAPTAIN FERRIE: You wil have to. ask Mr. Martin. ve BELL: You have no ‘knowledge what. he does? _ CAPPAIN FERRIE: ‘I dian't say that. 7 | . MR, QTL: I think you have correspondence in your. - files with Mr. Martin, He ts a private investigator, and that is in your letter from him in your files, stating just what he does. | As t say, I don't think Mr. ‘Ferrie should answer any “questions as of now because of ‘the failure to > provide | us with the written ‘questions. : . - oo | | MR. BELL? t want this to be wery clear to Captain Ferrie. and to. you, Mr. “gill, Rye) there will be no questions about 1 - COLMAN & COLMAN, INC. cs 2. BISCAYNE BUILDING od “es MIAME 32, FLORIDA 0 re HW 54756 Docld:322763970 Page 76
1 | in the future. The Company is directing Captain Ferrie vo answer 2 these questions at this. ‘time. 3 a CAPTAIN FERRIE: May I ask a question? 4 - MR. BELL: Certainly. 5 ee CAPTAIN PERRIB: Are you directing me to go outside 6 of the contract and waive my rights under the contract and the law? 7 - _ MR. BELL: _ Captain Ferrie, the Company has a | right fos 8 | to--- : 9 = - CAPTAIN FERRIE: You are not a Court of Law, Mr. 10 Bell. That is for a ‘court to determine, _ 11 _ : a . MR. BELL it ds the Company's position that it has | 12 this - right and ‘Ls. dtrecting you to answer these questions. — Bf Q a “CAPTAIN FERRIE: It is ny position and understandin ee that the Company does have the Fight to. ask me those questions, ‘in 48 | that I concur, in wetting, +n accordance with the contract. oS O18 ae a MR. BELL: Wedd, An, ay fairness to you, . ‘so we make |: oar no. mistake, there is no: ‘requivenent a fhe. pontrapt at all that ss these questions be. put dn writing, te S ao ae i CAPTAIN FERRITE: Mae Bell, I invite you to read, 20 | ang I want to make this. a part of the record, Section 29, Sub- al section A, Paragraphs 2. and 4, 22 7 7 MR. ‘BELL Well, the contract is | there, but it is . 23 a part of this record now, I want it to be very clear ‘that you a have ‘been directed to answer these. questions. ees oer Now, r ask you once again, will you answer these yep * COLMAN & COLMAN. INC. “ .' BISCAYNE BUILDING - .MIAMI, 32, FLORIDA . HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 7
23 24. part. , | as oe re a questions that have been put to you? . : ‘CAPTAIN FERRIE: can I answer it once ) again? ro. will be very happy | to answer - these questions-- : MR. GILL: Tet me make the answer, please. I don't think the ‘answer is his: ‘prerogative. He hasn't refused to answer these questions, except .at my direction as a legal proposition and not as a matterof tending to show any lack of co-operation on his If you had given. me ‘the questions. in writing, we might have had some answers. for some of ‘them; and some of them I don't think should be answered, or the answer would have been no; but having failed to do that, my position is that whether it is within the contract or whether it isn't, since you have questicns you intend for him to answer and some of ‘them go back to his child- . hood, it is that we should have been given those. questions in advance as you do have ‘them in writing, and apparently have had them for sometime, That is the legal position and factual positio _ too. | : as a ea : - - | ; MR. BELL: Does: anybody have any ‘questions? “In a view of the. position taken by, Captain Ferrie ‘through his attorney, | ‘it would serve no, ‘further purpose to continue ‘this hearing. MR. “GILL: May. x aie, 4s that all ‘the questions 3 you had intended to ask him? MR, BELL: No. UR, “GILL: Would you : let us have the rest of the _ COLMAN & COLMAN, ING, co... BISCAYNE BUILDING Jo, MIAMI a, FLORIDA ” HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 78
107 11 ‘49 13 i 15 17 18 4g 20 21 22 23 on | ask hin, questions 30 at least we: will have Something to go by in the future, whether he should come back and answer them; because now he is in a | position now: of not answering questions which. haven't | been asked Ais, unless ‘you have asked him ald that you intended to MR. BELL: I ‘think we have reached the position - where it is clear that he’ doesn't intend ‘+o answer any questions. I want to again make Lt: clear that if he wants to answer, if he. wants to -e0-operate with the Company, today - is the time to do te | MR. ‘GILL: Of course, your co-operation is not necessarily, Z don't believe, the correct one, Mr. Bell. If you will continue the Anterrogation and let us know what all the questions are, I think we are. entitled to ‘that. This is a a hearing,| and you are supposed. to. ask hin anyway, so we will know what they | are; and I will be talking ‘to Mr. Ferrie after this hearing, and if there is any desire to reconvene 4, I will call you. It is up to you, of course, whether or ‘not you would; put I think all of the questions should be. ‘asked, at least 50 we know what our accusers. are ‘saying, not’ have another hearing. | a | We hope to handle ‘this matter amicably. I know a Eastern is not afraid of me, I don't mean it that way; but. we have to terminate it one way or the ‘other shortly, and I know that is 7 what you want done; and, “that ts what we will have to do, and I | think. we ought to. know what your questions are. | That was the purpose of the meeting. “ypether to answer them or not. wasn't any “ COLMAN & COLMAN, ING, - ‘oo BISCAYNE BUILDING = *. MIAMI 32, FLORIDA: HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 79
10 11 org eres ON 16 8 1g. 20 21 22 23 24 25 answer "the ‘questions, . 36 guarantee. We came here to hear your questions, and whether we. are going to answer them is another matter, I think we should . know what they are. I ask that you tell us that now. | MR, BELL: You were not called here to hear our questions. This meeting was “held to give Captain Ferrie an opportunity to. make any: ‘explanations he would like to make in regard to certain matters that have come - to our» ‘attention in order that he might further express, these matters. _ ‘Captain Ferrie, on your advice, has chosen not to ; _ a | CAPTAIN FERRIE: See an incorrect statement, Mr. Bell. Let the, record show be oO | a : MR. GILL: I would say this, Mr. Bell, since we are here to answer “the questions and: maybe we may answer some of you questions, we don't know-- the chances are we won't-- but, at the same time, “I think we are entitled to know what they are. At this time you refuse to give them to us. in writing. - I think we ought. to know. Maybe if we hear all of thea, T atght well change my position; but to keep running into’ names of Communists within | scope of the Investigation is not what I think should be answered. 1 It may well be, but I think-- I ask: you to ask the questions, if you will. — MR. BELL: Ts want to point out to you that it was Captain Ferrie who brought ‘up the ‘explanation on these eriminal . charges being based on Communists. ‘That merely constitutes an “| COLMAN & COLMAN. ING... | " (BISCAYNE BUILDING 0 . MIAMI 32, FLORIDA . ry ar HW 54756 Docld:322763970 Page 80
49 23 24 37 investigation into his own explanations for all. this business. But. Af you have nothing further, we are going. to. | close the neeting and-- - MR. GILL: well, you close it with that request open that I made,’ that you haven't complied with the ‘rest of the. ‘questions, © “MR, BELL: The record ine’ it. MR. GILL: How much do you have yet to be asked him? S : MR, BELL: I can't answer that question intelligent- : ly because the number of questions depends somewhat on the answers.) MR. GILL: But would you say that they are con- siderable; is that correct, the questions yet to be asked? : "MR, BELL: - Yes, str, there is a number yet to be inquired’ into... . | o : | - | a MRL GILL: | what, is your: objection to ) furnishing us| with a. CORY: of the questions, all of them? MR. BELL: As I have stated to you previously, one of the advantages: of these hearings ts to have the Captain himself answer. these and tell his story. before the three individuals who: have the esponsibility. for the Company to make these decisions. “Now, you | ao ‘not get’ the same type of advantage out of preparing a list of written questions which then are ‘taken off | and the answers are written up at 3 different time. We have a | right: to tnveatigate ‘the matter in what we determine is the most proper manner, We offered you the opportunity to supplement any ." ” COLMAN & COLMAN, INC.. ae yo _ BISCAYNE BUILDING ‘ MIAMI 32. FLORIDA HW 54756 DocId: 32263970 Page @1
10° ou Los ap 14 15 rn 6 17 18 ag 20 21 88 38 answers that you might give at this time. We believe that you | have had every opportunity to make any explanations you feel are — appropriate or give any. answers, to these questions, ‘and nothing further can be served by prolonging this meeting. - | oe MR. GILL: okay, sir. ae (Thereupon, the meeting was coneluded at ll: os a.m.) | — a eo CERTIFICATE - - STATE OP FLORIDA yo > COUNTY OF DADE) ‘I, the undersigned, hereby certify that the foregoing transeript, pages 1 through 38, is a true. and ‘correct. transcript. of my stenographic notes of the proceedings had at the time and: place’ stated in the caption thereof. . . IN WITNESS WHEREOF, zr hereunto set my hand this arth day of February, 1963.0 La! - Phils -.. E.R. Schifter “i: Court Reporter ‘ COLMAN & COLMAN, ING. > | . , BISCAYNE BUILDING - - MIAME 32, FLORIDA © HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 62
yee Ms red for t (le we cee Ge ‘| FOR COMPANY USE . 3 FOR COMPANY USE oe Seana] EASTERN AIR LINES, INC. ._ | EMPLOYED BY ». | COMMENTS , Confidential ‘- | DATE TO START Cb POSITION "APPLICATION FOR EMPLOYMENT. DEPT. SALARY RATE A a This application is not only a factor in considering you for employment, but 4 it is also kept as a permanent record ' if 7 are employed. Please a it out with this in mind. FILL OUT CAREFULLY AND IN INK.. GENERAL INFORMATION| . kate SES i an a Date.16 March 195) Name: we LEA LA. RRLE. sanecceeeeese Da Aus Z. 2D.  WUEALALL.... Social Security Noah 16 RE 8 Last Name First Name Middle Name .- Required for Employment. Mating Address. v7 FIAR.. La VIERNE..AN Ey. CARVE CAMA: th yn Dies. Phone No. LEA, Rutarei Rf 1285 ST: s Street and Number City State oo “lt In case of e emergency notify: LIARS. slags COU 0 RTD 6a 1 LO THER SLaneuteetecnncasneeesoneees te Name See Relationship : : . AL DB22. hes Menus AVE, CLEVE L awk. ti 2 LB cairn nnn CHE AR MATER. Le 8 re ; ; Address (Street and Number, City, State) . Phone No..” ye . :Position applied for 20 CO2 PLS 0 Feceeecceceeeceeeeeeveeee Acceptable Salary - PEW : . Other positions qualified for or interested in... FLIGHT MEW Ec ccctaececseeensscecnevntnsevsvneecstnie eosin oa ‘Lo you agree to work rotating, day or night shifts? _....... eeenecneeneneneees SS . Are you willing to travel? LES........ Would you be willing to accept transfers to ‘other stations on our system?... Pa £ cae ‘What locality on our r system would you prefer? saonensecssencrneemts LATHE RM ceescnsnmemenatenesneecssnereneceeeeeee- cence tneeemenneemenes ; :. How soon after notification could you report for work? .........2082!. ZEEE, Sn SEE LTA EWES SMELT) - Have you ever been convicted of any offense other than minor trafic infractions? ......... A ; “ Tf answer to the above question is “yes”, explain ee av.) Ae Ee toe. a Ta: PERSONAL REF ERENCES (to whom you are not related and by whom you have not been employed): ~ Name 44: GENE 2 STE Tb Namie. a Ale ate bi AMIE... a — : : : a ‘Occupation e772 satak di G.LeceR. sawennsnevenceseeeenee- ..Occupation.......£47<..... as Address sas rn SL. £. “oancnnals AL 4 = CL iF ELAM L,: OHL2 | Address 72/2 fe. 791 9¢ wreeeeead ‘Street and Number "City State ; Street and Number . eo 7 ate State ; BS _ PERSONAL INFORMATION | me 7 | i. Age se mone ee a . Sex nes ae ssenennennecuDate Of Birth .. wc. et Ase. &2 LE... ecceeeeeceeeen | Are you a citizen of the v. S.? Es Poesencnrnceennnnnnsenneee-Oingle [] . Separated q " Mattied O Divorced [1 “ - Oo en . Maiden Name, if Married _.._...... Wei CALE IE ADSL ; ” DEPENDENTS: Name: “4 LAS lames th Lean. _. Relationship _._.. lB LTR ee MBO ib Ln : "Name - aaa —— Relationship . —_ see Age ion - te _ nen - Relationship... ae a _ Age. a oe - EAL 162 REV. 6- 48. HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 83
- e - ary ov PERSONAL INFORMATION (CON'T.). Music a PSyCUOLOSY oo. eb ‘What hobbies and athletics are you interested in and do you engage in? RFETS | Uf employed, you will be Le required to furnish two - De you own your home?_=_. Rent? =. . Board?.Yes_. . Live with Parents? .Ye5..... | recent photographs of yourself to be attached Please state e below how you have been occupied during the past, whether employed or not, to this application. _ “and giving exact dates.” + Place the most recent record first. This information must acccunt for all time. Wry oID YOU LEAVE NAME OF IMMEDI. [NATURE OF POSITION NAME ANO ADDRESS OF EMPLOYER ATE SUPERVISOR OR OCCUPATION CELL t pop MALS, Prriveh cv sunarce) #®. Beg ST IeL (P20 f o LBug ha SAFETY ee STREFT & NO. city STATE ; ENGIMELR sarianee Saves tia R&muiTy 8 | yr wasted wsoRAnce ‘Aa CHEST Z. om rif. Zt CHIDO SALETY. STREET & NO. city BTATE BLAIR LLOLMEER. JEDA Oy DRUSL Ys At RS Prier IY SUETLIG D BLDG | : ae ey . ~ - PART H Tins ART no} LAND ARP ou £¢ | key aegert | arrsy sane me , . Div eléetisun —_aetts Witte 1M STREET & NO. city STATE LC Heo + . BL: CHOBRLES Oy, Jo. STYLENT CARTHAT EMA Otro. nny — To STREET & NO. CITY BIATE | DOL SVG REMAINDER SEE EP SO4artIavaL RiP tek p STREEY & NO. : city STATE 19 19, MONTH MONTH - 19 “19 ATREET & NO. city. S~SCSTATE _ What office machines do you operate... TIP OM ALTER, ADM Ceca rameree Mineo snare o If applying for mechanical work, do you possess hand tools? 2. ~—=—7 - Approximate value $ oe - Licenses held and now valid: . - a gee ee . : MECHANICAL _ os RADIO ST os oe PILOT. aan : “Date Date. : a . Aircraft No. «. aE... Issued —— Ist Class No. ...2===.. Issued. een eeeeeeeeeeees Private’. fee een nennnnnngeneen : Date’ ee | ‘|2nd Class No... Issued a Commercial STL. raat . _ Engine No. . ad — Issued a MULTI @ Seng es ENG 8rd Class No. E4659" Issued @-ue £2. | ve 7 Land.’ - Have you made previous application for employment with Eastern Air Lines? er A'A:) Ra eneem an aneneenanunnatae samme aan memmemee aren Have you ever been discharged? MEBLS SEE ATTEMS lis Mf so, state reason i eae te ee . Names of relatives employed by Eastern Air Lines eseneecnectoneenseeceneesenesenenennl a Chae. WTA an namenngennnn nee ee an em tees = one mem acen nos eee ernes eee omen t ~ Names of personal acquaintances ‘employed by Eastern Air Lines 0020 ee a crane or as J tttetcee eee tnne leewn sce erncenene mere nea cuneeceemeene: 2 ee ne Re RS OOS mR TNS & ete mn Lae NR tether neem AN eke ce ee aa me HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page a4
- EDUCATIONAL RECORD "Saye oF scHoot | = NAME OF SCHOOL ter tra oravey Maan ee a] PRINCIPAL SUBJECTS SLaMEnTaRY sr, PAaTRICN! s | Ctevelawd  r9ar Vila GRAMM R . oe mice LG IGNATIUS ’ Y a 1931 93S He) AC Cane L408 cS WALLECE 937 pearge nee‘D - _ AERONAUTICAL - SKY TICH Ge COMMERCIAL ard rw rmaoe AIR wey SeRVICT anita ew rs BONE. . NAS f 43 P02 8 L£.-3 6) : | susiNess oS ATRL VOGEL , at AUDITING - ; BALLERS (ND, SA CS 7¥. LIS MPTRIG os | OTHER | CLAV9, C2bl, LITNAIT YY CATR! ree PEL AILS een i inact, watcta eens, MLM — LS EH OLS, bs Lhdueanne tntessey  SReHARie LATIN, | LATIN, - LATIN, oe Vat, foreign language do you speak? = S, EBLE Read?. EAM Li L, —-~» Write?.. s mac 7 - PHYSICAL” DATA | 7 ; : ‘Height a fan Weigh wane BS... £.28_...Color of Eyes 285020. /__ Color of. Hair. 2s : Do you have any defects i in: Speech . a Hearing we Site i Tw ol : : oS Any other physical d defects? col —— Do you wear glassesP___._<'" eo ~ WORLD. ‘WAR. i RECORD : (To be filled out by n men and 1 women who served in any bra nch of the United States Armed Forees): AR. stipe sec) eed che Sine Twas none er te ee rere wees nen rere enn anne remenenes senteneteneccennenn oe _ Date of decharge es te of discharge ae Branch of Service oninacmentemmenprmeeecnennenene cee ceneteeneenssen scenes MOMS 12cnecesesesemnnnennnennneontnn eee Months smnenien mroesnonoennen lon Laeemeeeee nA eo ene tome Ate amen a tren eer ein tit at bee LTS HRS RR AT CeS Hm hte eR Ne RTE A eH OSS Renee meee ee een ee catenin een n tenn eee we wees - sn em se ene: cae: eA OE SE tee Set CS ES EN CS AN eS SEE fH Oe OOS SS LE eee te em teh tn ore Om my dw Scherr temmewee awe oem + ao = r we. cence newer HW 54756 DocId:32263970 Page 65
aw ytd DU elas etc RUN ease THERE eT TD Septet arent eee eng URS Ta Tena ELI eter te ke anes I ating ang LENGTH OF TIME ATTENDED é SERVICE-ACQUIRED EXPERIENCE ~ “M.0.5., RATING OR © "Wow LON@ =e ' TYPE OF WORK TYPE OF KQUIPMENT USED RANK (MONTHS) : PERFORMED , ; we OR WORKED ON Service overseas, ‘battles, missions, ete. eee GT. a AERA CABLE Ae, “eesasencecenesnene sebaenceeenenseensissenquscbenstenedsdceenantaete | mene, he An ane Ce emnNR tn Renee eRe ee a ORT Oe LNT HOLA Oe EO ER SEE ORES UH TORO RN TONE e MRE N EE eRe RNE Re Hees HERES CERN RRs en ame te are nameesnenneeEneorewen tees eoccene see dreeseres neces emns ae ry Medals citations, ete, 2A : — | AGREEMENT ws The undersigned, in being given and accepting employment with Eastern Air Lines, Inc., understands and agrees that his employ: “ment is:not for any fixed term or period, but may be terminated at the will, and in the discretion of, the employer, Eastern Air Lines, - -Inc., at any time without advance notice to the employee or further obligation on the part of the employer, and payment of wages at... a stipulated periods and/or failure to enforce the above stipulations shall not constitute a waiver of same, but shall be in full force and “effect as long as the’ employment shall continue. ; The undersigned, in being given and accepting employment with Eastern Air Lines, Inc., consents and agrees that all inventions, discoveries, patents, copyrights, trademarks, trade names, improvements, plans, devices and ideas of any nature which the under- signed may obtain, make, originate or develop during or after the period of such employment having any relation to said employment - or to the business of Eastern. Air Lines, Inc., and/or resulting in any way from said employment or business or from information obtain- - ed as a result of said employment shall be and remain the sole exclusive property of Eastern Air Lines, Inc., and may be used or’ disposed of in any manner by Eastern Air Lines, Inc., its agents, legal representatives and assigns, and those acting for it, under its ~ permission or upon its authority, without payment of any compensation whatever to the undersigned, or the payment of any costs . except such disbursements as may be necessary and incidental to obtaining, making, originating or developing the same; and the + undersigned: further agrees-to do: all-things necessary’ to- establish ‘and detendgood and sufficient title to same in Eastern Air Lines. — The undersigned, in being given and accepting employment with Eastern Air Lines, Inc., consents and agrees that ail photographs, . WE ~ photographic negatives, prints of every kind and: nature, and all illustrations, pictures, designs, paintings, drawings, and other repro- | ig: Guctions of every kind and nature in which any likeness, accurate or otherwise, of undersigned may appear during or alter such em- “= ployment, made through any: media prior to or during such employment, may be published, used, copyrighted, exhibited, displayed and/or printed in advertising or otherwise in any manner, without compensation of any kind or nature to the undersigned or others. ; by Eastern Air Lines, Inc., its. agents, legal representatives and assigns and those acting for it, under it permission or upon its author- _: ity, and those for whom Easiern Air Lines, Inc, may.be acting; and undersigned agrees to indemnify and hold harmless Eastern Air : Lines, Inc., its principals and agents, from any claim + arising out of the | acts of reproduction and publication of any likeness. of under signed above mentioned. .: ae . “Signature Basil abt a Use’ space below for additional information which might have some bearing on your experience. WW 54756 DoclId: 32263970 Page 66
- Supplement to Application for Employment » Flying F Personnel Only. "2. Have you had service in foreign countries and if so, when and where? in the. course of employment I have. done extensive flying in Mexico. and Canada, though NOME - ey of this foreten flying involved instrument 1 dont we, oe ms . ‘ on BF ‘Are you a: member of the military reserve? M0___Which branch? on ae LICENSES AND SPECIAL RATINGS . Certificate of Competency No. 335866 Expires . Oommercial Pilot . a “C2. Pilot Rating hel _ Alreratt Rating. held oy List sour experience with radio Continuous radiotelephone experience in aviation. Lilewiso, a vadiotelephone ond OY perio: nee with Davil Air Potvol, Receive about 15 vi pam “ Qonsiderable experience Sith ADP end more recently with Vii OMI Directional Equipment. Aircraft experiance involves using a sin isle Bets 1 with Pixed loop, - to work holds at inter sections, etc., and overation of low o Summary of business experience In course of present employ: nent 4t is some times neces ssary £ Por: te ineurance for comercial and industrial concerns. ot “ oe os oe: Brief summary | of all aireratt t accidents Thank Got, nena, ; ©) Remakes | FORM 162A HW 54756 Docld:32263970 Page 47
Be LIST FLYING TIME BELOW | Tape ee - Hours Flown ~~. Hours Flown’) =>” Authority "Single Motored \land____4.2sei00 en _ Single Motored Water —_____Wewé | “ ot 7 Multi Motored pna___473e:e0 | | Multi Motored Water______deae Planes 18, 000. Ibs. Gross, over o 3 00:00 ) _Tnstrument time (Hood) ee ed es a ve | SQ:00 Instrument time (Cross Country) were @ py ov /Oiod | “Cross Country time day ns , 7 - SO | A (Go: oo. | oo cs ._ Cross. Country time night MGs taba TR OTS tL TO * Total Night time ~. , ps9 toa ek PAZRLO8 “POTAL, TIME Fy LIST FLYING EXPERIENCE LAST FIVE YEARS From |.- To =. [- NAME AND ADDRESS OF EMPLOYER | | NATURE OF FLYING ~~ oo Ss ATW B64, VEG EAR SC STKRAING X-€ 7o “Anes GIO _ SEPT. égwo | PRESENT | p99n Evtale Ave OF Jo, ue ; BAVKE RS CM LEA ATAS aN Mata ee cor! tall Bk SATIS APR Sew ee. yas ¥Y Cesare? LL ot ete A Caeg | SFOQD ati & BRIAs AG LO. STS oe PIG: SUGThLAwWD S206 6 VEL ANA, OOS i TRO PART ~ 7 IG TS. LPN Out. A BES: , AMY WHERE SUSFRIETED CAP SADSTS hoy, 1980 | SEP7- (970 —-.. PAM ee Rt NBM - MOSCNOSE STEED ENTS wets - COULD PS ARFORD TO $a Pa ue Bays Se psoer BOVEA LE CB Ce ete EZ eT Me aAL Aen HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 66
~ -: ae eae pare oo teegyre cee nas eremnenen me ere ee et a ene pa See i ne eg nn ee “"" RETAIL CREDIT COMPANY : i CAUTION TO CUSTOMER: In accordance with hdc Pees T . . mont, this report is released with understanding that informa- © PouSONNEL SEL ECTION REPORT ticn in this report is STRICTLY CON2 ENTIAL; noe, to be. communicated to person reported Git oie. - 7 Acct. No: age (Mail Under, Personal Cover) 9-21-51 li PR: f2Ante, DAVID W. Cleveland, Ohio, 17302 LaVerne Ave. ie i L. Investigation medo at Cleveland, Ohio S Racial Descent: AS = 2, Prosont or Former Aiddrasss Present — 6. Ropuiation good?” ingtates “tetargueton prohibit.) 3. ; Number Yoars Known: 2Q—1- vrs. 7 mos. (5 File 12 yrs (To you or informants) Dato of Birth or Age: 3-28- 18 So 7. RECOMMENDED?’ Yo Past Employment a DATES OF EMPLOYMENT: Give dates of employment or unemployment. List names and addresses of employers under headings below. b> ° SUMMARY OF EMPLOYMENT: Show how regarded by each employer, position held, competency, standing, earnings, absenteeism, reasons for leaving, eligible for “ . rehire. EXPLAIN ANY GAPS IN EMPLOYMEN' EDUCATION: Show extent of education. School record. Form 263—12-43  prinvco inv. B. As me oO ¢ . TRAITS: Is he cooperative? Does he display initiative, posses ability to get along with others? HEALTH-HABITS: Cover health, iipairments, appearance, drink or drug habits, ov . 6 PERSONAL-REPUTATION: Cover marital status, dependents, home surroundings, financial and credit standing, reputation, honesty, associates; speculation, ; gambling, criminal tecord. Name, occupation, reputation of father, if single and under 21, or husband, if married woman. , (Begin with present or most recent and traco back chronolegically) 199) EXACT DATES OF EMPLOYMENT OR UNEMPLOYMENT - "+ NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF EMPLOYERS 11-50 to h-9-51 7 Co . Atwell Vogel Sterlinz, 1900 Hanna Bldg., © —_ — Cleveland, Ohio. 1-50 “eb 10-56 a | . . Bankers Indemnity, 1234 Chester Aves, © ee ye Oe . Cleveland, Ohio. ; See Remarks: tt ~ Jeda Oil Drilling Co., 714 Swetland Bldg Cleveland, Ohio. Benedictine High School, Cleveland, Ohio.: oS j- \O 2 Oo ct [@) o I = ma EMPLOYMENT: Atwell Vogel Sterling, emploved as an insurance inspet- _ excellent record, resigned voluntarily and is elgible for rehire. a very brilliant man, hard worker and very aggressive. ow © hy a ~ @ rs Indemnity, ‘employed as an insvector trainee, hard worker, extremely ligent, out overbearing. He was discharged because. he used his private. to tr avel from town to town instead of his vrivate automobile,which he he company into believing he was using. This also caused the dismissal suverior. , Ss 3 © om cS @ OF FO Fh @M FDS You: ¢ tr WM ct il Drilling Co., this was a small svéculative firm and is no. longerin Eowever, we have file information dated 4-5-49 which shows that wis employed as 4 purchasing agent anc hired about the middle of 1948, not .§ shown on your inquiry. As will us seen later in this report, he had “inite reason for extending these dates. He was notified in the first | of 1949 to seek another job because business was so slow. He had a fav- é record with this company un until the date or our file. om Dido @ @ QP. = hy 8 fo Oct CG He bs te) C5 beet en) AL % my (@) t corn on oO'd 99 hy cy ct ¢ ry fo re) ne High School, ne was under contract to teach at this high schocl o 1949, very uncooverative and did things pretty imuch his own way... cised for vsycho-analyizing nis students rather. than teaching then of arithmetic and history which he was hired'to teach. Parents tne school with complaints,. and he was. dressed down for this on several . LCREDIT COMPANY. 7 os lover) a PERSONNEL SELECTION REPORT ; 3 Q. fo WU) fot yo. + 4 (@) 30 re @ ct rs ti ct IF WM Fy oD wm 9 a dy ow Fy = 3 o Q bei by td AL HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 69
- He Was entrusted with a school airplane which he was assigned to cecassions the “est coast and back to Cleveland, Ohio. (‘While in his possession it was Pouna': that several valuable instruments nad been removed from the LSD Si. Lt was derinitey proven that he was resvonsible for this." Cr wun cecassions he took puvils. for rides in his own plane. without the vermissicn of their parents. Again complaints poured into the school. -On some of these excursions he is known to have bought beer for the students. Your avvolicant > -— was also entrusted with a. school year book valued from $500 to $600 and in | Short time tne book disappeared and he was unable to zive an.account. He was fired from this job-on 6-L8, was regarded as dishonest, unreliable, not resvon- sible and a dis-credit to.- the school. - Although the school authorities had grounds ror legal action, they preferred rather to just sever their relations. TAL information was verified on three different occassions when we were re-. nuired to contact this school. It is not hard to understand way he omitted this employment on his apolication to your company « EDUCATION: He is a graduate of Baldwin Wallace College, | Berea, .Chio, Class of nme nad a favorable scholastic record, a oO eI ' > te fHaltS: Not considered cooperative, above average initiative but seldom ‘used it to a good advartage; and does not particularily possess the ability to get along with others. HEA LTHS HABITS: Apoears to ‘be. in good health, has” no known impairments, pre~ sents a.favorable appearance and does not engage in drink or drug nabits. DERSONAL-R 2EPUTATION: Your inquiry shows the applicant to be single, however, we nave file information from Tampa Florida, dated 1-li-+49 which shows that he was married at that time and had 2 ‘devendents.. Persons contacted in this city, however, were unable to confirm this. He makes his home with his varents... in a good middle- class section of the eity.. Home. surroundings are favorable and no criticism was- found in the residence in respect to morels, habits, nonesty, or associates. It is obvious that his neighbors are not familiar w.th his vori- vate litte. He has a favorable financial and credit standing and we found no indic cation of sveculation of gambling. ICE RRCORD: Sept. 27, 49, Traffic Ord. $5 & Cost cost ‘susp. 7-14-49 Traffic 55: ¢ - Jelh- Lg, Traffic’ Ord. 315 & Cost: cost susp. 5~23-48, Traffic t cost susp. 1- LO-bO, Traffic Ord. 15 & | Gost, Fine susp. it : Ne Learned. of no acts of dislogelty toward the United States Government, ance .or friendliness to a foreign country, nor any redent trips abroad. ism was found in respect to his “attitude toward the present internationa: ra) 4 1 an] oO ft L 1 ri a Hct @ O Fe ct MILITARY: Believed to be a member of the Air Corp Reserve, however, we were un-— aole to learn whether ne is active or inactive. - oe rE: In view of the “Poregoing information which has been verified time and azain over cae past lew years, we certainly cannot recommend him as a desirable emvloy- HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 90
. : . : ol \ _—— ~ . : 7“ Ra c 7 ment, thia report is released with understanding that informa- - = ERS SO} \NEL SE SLECTION REPORT tion in this report is STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL; not_to be communicated to person reported on or to anyone else. ia a $ fee" Ai OFFICE ae & fics. rol S30 (Mail Under Personal Covor) } 7 5-21-51 ty ~ Gs) PSRATS, SAVID % Cleveland, Ohio, 17302 LaVerne Ave. y ' < Tilo No ¢ = 5 tavestigation mado at Cleveland, Ohio : 5. Racial Descent AO . - = 2. Presont or Former Address) Present | 7 6. Re wieton goede ingtates wires (aunts eowations Prohibit.) 23 Number Years Known: 2Q=1 yrs. 7 mos. (Fie 12 yrs. 2 (To you or informants) 23 : vr +» -F E4 Dato of Birth or Age: 3-28-18 1. RECOMMENDED? NO Past Employment > . . 7 red Bs 1, DATES OF EMPLOYMENT: Give dates of employment or unemployment. List names and addresses of employers under headings below. ; 2 2, SUMMARY OF EMPLOYMENT: Show how regarded by each employer, position held, competency, standing, earnings, absenteeism, reasons for leaving, eligible for a rehire, EXPLAIN ANY GAPS IN EMPLOYME! 5 3. EDUCATION: Show extent of education. School record. . Lo, 2 . 4, TRAITS: Is he cooperative? Does he display initiative, posses ability to get along with others?" 5. HEALTH-HABITS: Cover health, impairments, appearance, drink or drug habits. . . . 6. PERSONAL-REPUTATION: Cover marital status, dependents, home surroundings, financial and credit standing, reputation, honesty, associates; speculation, : . gambling, criminal Tecord. Name, occupation, reputation of father, if single and under 21, or husband, if married woman. ‘ (Bagin with Present or most recent and trace back chronologically) . (1) EXACT DATES OF EMPLOYMENT OR UNEMPLOYMENT ' NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF EMPLOYERS : 121-50 to in-9-51- . Atwell Vogel Sterling, 1900 | Hanne Bldg. St Cleveland, Ohio. . . 1-50 to 10-50 , . Bansers Indemnity, 1234 Chester Ave.,. Cleveland, Ohio. See Remarks: eds Oil | Drilling Co., 714 swetland Bldg. : eveland, Uhio. to redictine High School, “cleveland, Ohio. ry Atwell Vogel. sterling, employed as an. insurance inspet- lent record, resigned voluntarily and is elgiole for rehire.. very brilliant man, hard worxer 25° very aggressive. ankers Indemnity, emploved as an “nsoector trainee, hard worker, extremel vy intellizmt, out overdearing. He wae discharged because he used nis private plane to travel from town to town instead of his private automobile,which he _ lead the company into believing he was using. This.also caused the dismissal of nis suverior. | oe : Jeda Oil Drilliag Co., this was a small speculative firm and is no.longerin operation. However, we have file information dated 4-5-49 which shows that oo he was employed as a purchasing agent and hired about the middle of 1948, not 5-45 as. shown on your inquiry. AS will be seen later in this revort, he had a definite reason for extending these dates. He was notified in the first _ part of 1949 to seek another job because business was so slow. ‘ie had a fav- cragle record with this company up until the date of our file. enedictine High School, ne was under contract to teach at this nieh school Q 1940 to 1949, very uncooperative and did things vretty much his own way. He was criticised for osycno-analyizing his students ratner.than teaching tnem the subjects of arithmetic and history which he was hired’to teach. Parents stormed the school with complaints, and he was dressed down for this on several RETAIL CREDIT COMPANY lover) _. +. "| PERSONNEL SELECTION REPORT HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 91
Eé was entrusted with a school airolane which he-was assigned to occassions. che West coast and back to Cleveland, Ohio. While in his vossession it was found that several valuable instruments nad been removed from the dash-board’ and"it was definitdy proven that he was resvonsible for this.” On numerous occassions He took puvils, for rides in his own plane without the permission or their ‘parents. Again complaints poured into the school. -On some of these- excursions he is known to have bought beer for the students. Your apvlicant + was also entrusted with a schocl year book valued from 3500 to 3600 and in short time the book disaoveared and he was unable to give an account. He was fired from this job on 6-43, was regarded as dishonest, unreliable, not resvon- . sible and a dis- -credit to the school. Although the school authorities had srounds ror lecal action, they preferred rather to just sever their relations. TaAis information was verified on three different occassions when we were re- quired to contact this school. It is not hard to undérstand ‘why he omitted this emoloyment on his apolication to your company. | EDUCATION: He is a graduate of Baldwin Wallace College, Berea, Ohio, Glass of Gel. He nad a favorable scholastic record. THALTS: Not consideréd cooperative, above average initiative but seldom used it to a good advariage, and does not particularily possess the ability to get along with others. HkALTH-HABITS: Apvears to be in good nAcalth, has no known impairments, pre- sents a favorable aopearance and does not engaze in drink or druz habits. PaASCNAL-REPUTATION: Your inquiry shows the apvlicant to be single, however, ve have file information from Tampa Florida, dated 1l-ll+49 which shows that he was married at that time and had 2 denendents. Persons contacted in this city, however, were unable to confirm tnis. He makes his home with his varents -— in a zood middle-class section of the city. Hone surrouncings are favorable and > no eriticisn was: found in the residence in resvect to moral 8; habits, honesty, or associates it is obvious that ais neighbors are not familiar with his vri- vate lite. We nas 4 favorable financial and credit standing and. we found no indication of speculation of gambling. POLICE RECORD: Sent. 27, 49, Traffic Ofd. 35 & Cost. cost susp. 7-14-49 Traffic: Ord. G5 ¢ St. 9-14-48, Traffic Ord. 315 & Cost cost susp. 5-23-48, traffic ost cost suse. 1-16-46, Traffic Ord. 315 & Cost, Fine susp. tet ‘ Som es Bx! rned of no acts of dislogalty toward the United States Government, Lee oF friendliness to a foreign country, nor any redent trips abroad. sm was found in respect to nis” attitude toward the present internationa: Sy 1 oO fe! ergs POO © oO a ct ¢ cae a el a Ct ps pH eg ct O PSS a aaa a ae i “ j~ | fo (o) he rt ® 4 ct io) fH ioe @ Believed to be a member of the Air Core Reserve, however, we were un- arn whetner he is active or inactive. oe a of the foregoing information which has been verified time and azain few years, we. certainly cannot recommend nim as a desirable em roloy- HW 54756 DBocld:322763970 Page 92
ve Father! sg name ~ James Howard Ferrie oe , Hother’s name - Burdette Couts Goldrick . oe Are doth Catholic? - Yes - mere & & when baptized - oe a Do a When 4 to Seninary ~ + (Ste Mery" s, Clevelend) Sept. 1938 +411 June 1940. When | leave Seninary = June’ “1940. aaa . =" them ‘in chapel & make few observations. Dr. Fuerst was ledind of prefect for house: not= “; much contact with him either. Msgr. Frey was spiritual director, but too ill to do much ‘°° ~. beyond a 20-minute talk each Saturday evening. Confessors — total strengers, --—~ Dis- - “*. missal was never appealed to Bishop. It is premmed that he approved Rector's action as 8 matter of course. Rector. has refused. to discuss reasons for dismissal with Ferrie. — ae Any debts. there? or ‘elsevhere? _ No. a oa ee re ip 7 To what parishes have you belonged (since u years eteye In St. Patrick's, Cleveland: Jo Any physical hendicaps -“_ ‘eethna & hayfever, but says he takes hypodermic shots ‘rogilar- os training from doctor. Not bothered now for four yeare, but takes shots regularly, e8D. in - spring & early sumer. Oa en : a Any trouble with civil suthorities? Ho. . a Military service. ~— ‘Can you get deferment (oseaption) tron local. board in Cleveland? —. Nane - David W4l]iem Ferrie Born, when and whore - - Cleveland, Ohio, Marek 28, , ise . : ; 2 a ee OF “Mareh 31, 1918. Mat rite? ~ Roman i, Maare to school = St. Coleman's four years; ‘St. Patrick three years; (skipped a year); a High School at St. Ignatius H. School, Cleveland (Jesuits) four years; Sohn Carrell University for three years (that is, to June 1938). ” a oe What « egurses teken there ~- Same as here an 111 your p: papers: at Seminary? Yes (of. Msgr. Joseph Walsh who keeps records & grades. Lives et Seminary) ced ay i ave Seminary? - “Requested by Rector not to come back following year -— Tore. up let i ter -- "for certain reasons® mentioned in that letter wee not fur- . ther explained. Megr. Hagan tried to find out for him and did not succeed, =- Ferrie rhaps because I was too impulsive, -- Says philosophers never had con$act with ‘Ree “never any personal contact with him. About twice a yeer he would read rule to ~ ee . (Westpark) since 1926. — “He - other later. ly & so is not bothered. Takes them himself ~ has sufficient aa . Bust Bet decision on 1 this, .
me ae adler es ati ais ene ete har ENTE. Te naa tenaaal a otesente hess chimeueis bitte theca sa yectennleterattotiense eas chim : eco nd mean in aaa aaacit atari z iiss cate ‘Page-94- DocId: 32263970 WW 54756
HW.-54756. “Doc FEBRUARY 28, 1967 2 JIM GARRISON, DISTRICT ATTORNEY FROM: ANDREW SCIAMBRA AND LOUIS IVON : ss INTERVIEW WITH DAVID FERRIE - On Saturday, February 18, 1967 at approximately 3:30 P.M., Louis Ivon and I interviewed David FERRIE in his apartment on Louisiana Avenue Parkway. As we approached the house, FERRIE came out on the - porch and looked at us and began to walk down the steps to open the front door for us. As he opened the door for us, he told -Ivon that he was glad that we finally decided to come and talk — with him as he had been trying to get in touch with Garrison or. Ivon for several days... He told me hello and asked me what I was doing with Ivon and I explained to him that T was an Assistant D. A. now and thought that I would come along with Ivon since we knew each other from the airport. ‘He told us” to go" on upstairs and that he would follow us, but that ‘it would take him. ‘some time to clin up the stairs ao as. he was ‘sick, and weak and that he had not been able to keep anything on: “his ‘stomach for a couple of £ days. He moaned and ~~ groaned with each step he took up the stairs. from the bottom to 7 “the top. | This behavior by | PERRIE impressed me as “phoney act and [ere am sure. that he was not as sick as he ‘pretended to. be. -.. Once inside the apartment, Ivon~and I sat down and _FERRIE laid down on the sofa in the front room. He was. wearing | . pants and a T-shirt and had two pillows under him, 132263970 Page 95° —
HW 54756 [At this point, in order to more properly evaluate the comments of Hyde, it is necessary to set out information obtained from Hyde concerning one, Jack Martin]. During the course of the interview with Hyde, he was asked how the name of Jack Martin was associated with he and Ferrio. Hyde stated hoe belieked that he had first come into contact with Jack Martin some years ago in New York} city not named. He describes Martin as an ontright "rounder", living by fraud, blackmail and other devicus means. Nartin learned that Hyde needed a seal and pro- vided hin with one. Later he gave a painting as a Gift. For theso favors, Martin requested Hyde to ordain him as & priest; which Hyde refused. Martin became associated with a branch of the church at Louisville, Kentucky, considered frauds by Hyde and later became, manner un- known, associated with Ferrie. There is some indication Ferrie also spent some time in Louisville. Ferrie began to question the church authority of Martin and Martin thon advised the head of the church at Louisville. Supposedly, Ferrie was read out of the church and vicious comments made about him which are attributable to Martin. Hyde claims that Martin has made allegations as to homo-sexuality eoncerning various officials of the church; including himself. Martin, reportedly, has written letters to various persons alleging misdeeds of Hyde, including the molesting of children, claiming he had proof because of publicity in Washington newspapers. Hyde states that Martin is the kind of person who will Docld:322763970 Page 196