AGENCY: RECORD NUMBER: RECORD_ SERIES: AGENCY FILE NUMBER: 89-69-3252. 3253. 3254 AGENCY INFORMATION Released under the John FBI . Kennedy ; kASssassination Records 124-10251-10249 ollection Act of 1992 NO (44 USC 2107 Note). ase#: NW 54462 Date: nO-O4-2017 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR: FBI FROM: CG TO: HO TITLE: . DATE: 06/27/1967 PAGES: SUBJECT: DOCUMENT TYPE: “ORIGINAL 13 SEE FBI 62-109060-5483 PAPER. TEXTUAL DOCUMENT Unclassified NEW CLASSIFICATION: CLASSIFICATION: REVIEW DATE: 11/05/1998 UPDATE DATE: 02/14/2001 STATUS Redact RESTRICTIONS: JFK Act 6 (4) COMMENTS: INC 2 CIT MEMOS, A/T HW 54462 DocId: 32190039 Page 1
i 9816 - 67 - June Zl, 1967 Lex Hawkins, Atiorney at Law 836-642 Fifth Avenue ae Moines, Iowa a a ARRANGEMENTS: Aerie meee) <} ti “y i ao Ae your request, LILLIE MAE NiC MAINES was examined on the polygrz raphy 2 detection of deception technique. as exercised throughout this examination, aavicet was examined in this effice on June 19, 1967. “She was given a Relevant La t € Irrelevant type examination for the purpose of ascertaining if she posse (ee knowledge of an alleged reeting in Dave lerrie's home wherein there was verbal intercourse relating to a plot to. assassinate the late John F. Kennedy. ing the pre-test interview, the Subject stated fet she was bora Lillie Mae V\ Wyoifett on Cctober 22, 1944, in Lucedale, Missi oie Po Stated that her real , \ iotines died when her younger sister was born ha was raised by one of per father's cousins, James Moffett, and his w w ite ithe 1 She referred to these people as her parents. She stated that she was raised near Mebile, Alabama. She said that she does not know whether or not James and Ethel Moffett ever adopted ner. Subject stated that she is presently married to Harold MeMaines, aged 38 Fears. She said that he does not have a reg wer jod and works out of an “ernployment office’ in Omaha, Nebr ashka,s as a tr ck driver and as 2 furniture mover. The Subject. stated that ever since she wes old enough to understand and remernber, her "mother" constantly told her that her older sister Gertrude, who lived in New/ Grleans, Louisiana, was “a traimp and ao good." She stated th at these statements HW 54462 Docld:32190039 Page 2
Page 2 a re | Jf Mr. Hawkins a June 21, 1967 0 7 RE: Lillie Mae McMaines RESULTS (cont'd): finally caused her to run away from home in 1962 and proceed to New Crleans to locate her sister Gertrude. She said that she just had to find cout if her sister was really "bad." During six hours of interview and interrogation, the Subject gave the following jiniorrnation rcgearding her stay in New Crleans, her return to scobile, Alabama, hen on to San Bernadino, California, then back to New Orleans, then to Omaha, Nebraska, and finally to Des Moines, Iowa. ubiect stated that when she first went to New Grieans she decided to use the | name Sandra Moifett. She explained that she had been in New Orleans ior approne imately three weeks before her sister permitted her to go out "on the town" by Nerself. She said that the first night she went out alone she met Perry Russo. . She said thet the mecting occurred about 10:30 P.M. as she was walking down Jour bon Street and that Perry Russo, "Ken,'' Leity Peterson and "Timmy" were also walking along Bourbon Strect. She ‘related that as they passed on the street, Timmy winked at her and she similed. She continued that they all stopped on the © sidewalk and talked. She said that during this conve rsation, Perry Russo volun- ; | Hreres to drive her home. [She continued that she, Perry Russo, leity, Ken and Timmy all got into Perry's car and proceeded to drive toward her sister's home where she was staying but they stopped on the way ior coffee and gasoline. She said that Perry Russo asked her if she would go to school with him the following morning and she replied to him nat she would go with hirn provided her sister would permit her to do so. /She continued that Perry Russo stopped by the house the following mo rhing but her > sister would not permit her to go with him but her sister did agree that she could attend a party that was being given ior Ken Wink that night. Subject stated that that party was held-at a place called the Frenchrnan's Inn. She said that Perry was supposed to pick her up at §:00 P.M. but. he was late becau it was raining hard. Sne said that she and Perry arrived at the pa rty at appro mately 9:00 P.M. ‘ 4 ia] 2. fete The Subject stated that she and Perry continued to cate until the early part of 1983. | She said that she became pregnant and aiter she told Perry that she was pregnant ‘ he told her to "get lost" ‘until aiter the baby was born and then she should look him Y wp again. ae Et ne a ENS ST . oe HW 54462 Docld:327190039 Page 3
Page 3 | Mr. Hawkins : June 21, 1967 © a ORE: ‘Lillie Mae McMaines RES ULTS (contis): The Subject stated that when she first told Perry Russo that she was pregnant, a man (unknown to her) placed Perry in a hypnotic trance and questioned him. She said that while in the trance, Perry acknowledged that he was the father of her yet unborn baby. She said that Perry later denied that he was the father. She went on to explain that she, Perry, and the unknown "hypnotist" (she des- tibed his age as between 40 and 50 years) went to a place called the Royal Castle and, while there, this unknown "hypnotist" again placed Perry ina hypnotic trance. She said that he did not question Perry at this tirne but gave im a post-hypnotic suggestion, "When I snap my fingers you will awaken, ge oii the stool, walk to the door and then return to the stool where you will { freeze in your tracks and will be unable to. move." She said that when tae man snapped “his fingers, Perry opened his eyes, got off the stool, walked to the door anc hen turned and walked back to the “Stool. She said that I Perry stood by the stool nd weat through what appeared to be attempts at moving his body but he did not pctually move. She added that, in her opinion, Perry was faking his inability to “snove while standing by the stool. -sbubject said that the next time she saw Perry (after telling him that she was | lpreg nant) was a very short time later and she spent about one-half hour talking (with him in his home. She said that when she departed his home, a frien of his | named "Fide" knocked her down on the lawn, hit her in the atomach with his fist, | and made the comment, "Why don’t you leave him alone?" She explained that she screamed loudly when struck by Fido hoping that Perry would come Outside but — Ny fee did not. She said that Fido went into Perry's home. aiter knocking her cown \eas striking her. She said that as soon as she regained her sense of direction, , We she got up and went home. | | The Subject stated that when she was about three months pregnant, she atteimpted suicide by taking 175 aspirin. She said that a girl friend named Kathy found her and took her to the Charity Hospital in New Orleans by taxicab. She said that her stomach was pumped at the hospital and she said that the hospital notified the , police departinent but her gir] friend Kathy talked the oiiicer out of ta king her to jail. HW 54462 DBocld:32190039 Page 4
Mr. Hawkins June 21, 1967 — . RE: Lillic Mae McMaines RESULTS (cont'd): Subject stated that when she was about four months pregnant, she married a | Frank Adams in Dallas, Texas. She did not tell the circumstances surrounding a divorce from Adams. . The Subject stated that when she was between 15 and 16 years of age, her ‘tmother'" took her to a psychiatrist because she had run away from hore. She said that she visited the psychiatrist about four times but she did not know, what (» reported about her. ae . ° Aubject related that she gave birth prematurely on August 30, 1963. She said that she was released frora the hospital on September 3rd or 4th, 1963., She said that she went to Perry Russo's house the day following her release-from the hospital but she did not see ox talk with him again until June or July of 1964. subject then related how Perry Russo photographed her on several occasions Wwhile she was engaging in the act of coitus with different men. She explained that Perry had his own dark room and developed the pictures himself. [| }paviect then related that she and a girl named Ann visited her baby in the hospital “frequently. She further stated that her parents" came from Alabama to New | Orleans and also visited the baby in the hospital. (ae. Subject continued that her baby was released from the hospital on September 20, 1963, and on this same date she left New Crleans with a James Robert Ervin Russo had introduced her to him). She said that the two of them and the baby went by bus to her “parents'’ home. She gave her "parents" address as Box 326 . in Eight Mile, Alabarna and she said that thie. town is located near Mobile. 1 She went on to explain that James Rebert Ervin was unable to fing employment in Mobile and so he went to New Orleans and obtained a job inan establishment called Little Crystal Cafe. She said that this establishment is located on Roya treet in New Orleans. She said that Jimmy worked and stayed in New Crleans curing the week and he would hitchhike to her “parents" home in ight Mile, Alabama, over the weekends. oo a HW 54462 Docld:327190039 Page 5
CO O° Page 5 a Mr. Hiawkins . ; June 21, (41987 RE: Lillie Mae McMaines RESULTS (cont'd): Subject stated that she and Jimmy leit Eight Mile in February of 1904 Geaving | 7 the baby with her "mother'") aad they went to San Bernadino, California, whe they stayed with an aunt of hers. She said that from the time she left New Orleans to go to Eight Mile and then to California, she did not make one trip to Ney w Orleans. : . f ? - : Subject related that she and Jiramy went through a wedding ceremony in Tiajuana, Mexico, in June ef 1964. She continued that Jimmy left her the latter part of gnis same month. She said that the day after Jimmy leit her, she went to New Lvleans by bus. 7 Subject related that whén she arrived in New Orleans, ehe called Perry Russo ni he came to the bus Gepot and drove her and her personal belongings to his ome, She said that she spent the night in Perry's apa artment and then the foliswe- ag day she rented a room fox‘herseli, She said that-after she yented the room, ghe went job hunting and she met James Robert Ervin onthe street. She said ‘that they decided to live together again. She said that she did obtain a job as a aymaic. She said that she and Jimmy lived together for only one week and he gain walked cut on her. She said that he left on July 3, 1964. The Subject said that she then turned to prostitution as a means of supporting herseli and invorder to save up enough money to get her baby back from her "mother." She iurther explained that she gave Perry Russo "around a hundred dollars" te keep for her but he never gave it back.to her.. She said that on one ~ ther occasion, she loaned Perry 520. G6 to use to pay his insurance but. he did ot repay this money either. * The Subjec ct stated that the first time she rnet Dave Ferrie was in either the latter part of January of the. first part of February of 1965. She e: sxplained that she was with Perry Russo and he wented to see Dave Ferrie about something and so th two of them went to Dave's apartment. She said that Perry introduced her to - Ferric and his two roommates. She said that they stayed at Dave's apartment fox enly a few minutes and they leit. . ‘MW 54462 DocId:32190039 Page 6
oo Myr. Hawkins oe June 21, 1967 Co RE: Lillie Mae hicMaines RESULTS (cont!d}t wae hy The Subject said that the next time she saw Dave Ferrie was less than a we 20k after first meeting him and wag ona Sunday. She explained that eve | invited her to his apartment fer-lunch with hirn and his two roommates, She aid that Dave picked her up at her place ina blue Ford station-wagon and they a arrived at Dave's apartment at anproximately 12:30 or 1:00 F.M. She said that she stayed © at this apartment until about 3330 P.M, 2t which time he drove her back to her ubject said that she next saw Dave Ferrie on the iollowing Wednesday or Rhurscay when he came by Sam's place where she was employed, She said that Dave asked her if she would £9 out with him the following Friday night. abject said i that on this Friday night, Dave picked her up at her apartment dbout 6:05 og 6:30 P.M. and they first proceeded to Dave's apartment where one ot Dave's*roommates and his date were waiting. She said the four of them then eee to several places to dance and drink but they. did not have dinner. ever meeting Shaw or Oswald. She said that che a LEVEY é attend ed a party at Dave LF errie ‘s house. She stated that she had never bean a football game but she did attend basketball and baseball garnes with Perry Russo and Leity Peterson. The Subject stated that Perry Russo was extremely interested in politics. She said that he was a Republican and a strong advocate and backer of Coldwater. /three other men but she could not be sure of their names. She related that the meeting was held ina big house on Canal Street in either April or May of 1965. ! She said that she and three men stayed Ina back room of the house ana watched felevisione She said that she did not see all of the people at the meeting. She said B not hear anyone speaking opand eh nor cid she see any Spanish, Cubans “Ricans at this mecting. Ve /The Subject stated that she attended a political meeting with Perry Russo and . . ‘The Subject comznented that Leit , Peterson is Nose upstairs " but is a good gu J y & otherwise. ‘HW 54462 Docld:32190039 Page 7
Page a ; : . 5 . co ; . June OL 1967 RE: Lillie Mae McMaines RESULTS (cont'd): The Subject explained that Perry Russo habitually made notes about everything. She saidthat he made notes of things he had to do, the times he was supposed te ‘be somewhere, and.places he had to go. She said that Perry told her he rade notes oF everything because he was so busy that he did not want to forget anything. anne Subject explained that Gn one occasion 5 he went to Perry's house a nd Mike (Vneies gerald was there, She said that Mike told her that he had just found Perry in the bathroom with , his wrists all slashed up and that he had tried to coramit suicide. She said that she then leit and did not see Perry. The Subject stated that when Perry fir rst intreduced her to eam evin, he _ suggested they all co to Jimmy's apartment and he would Hke to make p pactont ap (| her and Jimmy engaging in caitus.. She saic that a girl fr tena of hers named. aid obs Jeannie became very angry with Perzy when he made this suggestion. "She Jive s Subject stated. that the most men she ever engaged in sexual intercourse with, one linmédiately following the other, would be two. She said that these were two ‘men she hustled when she was working ag 2 prostitute. She related that she |Jhsustied one ronan one night and lhe went into the bathroom after undressing. She [ said that she locked him in the bathroom, took 3120.00 frora his pocket and ran | ovtofthe room. She stated that on one occasion Perry wanted to photograph her J and 4 girl.named Kathy eagaged ina sex act together but she said that sormeone 3 came in unexpectedly and the act was never consummated. a leet \\// The Subjec t related that t wo inve -stigators from District Attorney Garrison's office came to her home in the middle of the night of Merch 8, 1967, in Ornaha. She said that they requested her to leave immediately with them and return t New Orleans for the purpose of looking at some photegr gaphe. She said that the oy told her that they did net know what the photographs were. She continued that she told them that she could not leave then because she had a coat and other clothing 2 inthe cleaners. She sald that these two men, Simnis and Jonah, told her net to. ‘worry---they would buy her some new clothes. She said that they further told her * that she would stay in the finest hotels and eat the finest foods. * a. _ cmon L mae EEE —— so a a a — HWW 34462 Docld:32190039 Page 8
June 21, 1967 RE: Lillic Mac McMaines RESULTS (cont'd aE moe, oo CS oS She continued that her husband (Harold MeMaine: s) spoke up and stated that he .did not want to let her go ang that he wanted to consult with an attorney. She - gaid that the two investigators then offered to buy a tichet for ner husband also. She said that after her husband insisted on talking with an attorney first, ths two investigators told her husband not to consult with an attorney because she raight cet hurt lf he did and they wanted to keep everything quiet. She said that they did leave however. | The Subject explained that she told this entire story to a reporter named Ue eet with the World-Herald in one She said that after the story. appeared in print she and her husband beth lost their jobs. She went on to relate reporter Zimmerman told her tat she needed an attorney and arra nnged neet attorney Lex Haw kins. TA . i?) - sa) my oO a) ep o sca} ays c4as fat} uu ba w 73) fe cA) ot © my |The e Subject was given four separate test rs questions and gave the answers indicated: the following -clovaat ~— iFirst Test: J eneterwemcsorns as } . @. Bo you have any intention of trying to lie to me during this test? A. No. Q. Have you told me the complete truth since we have been talking? A. Yes. ©. Did you attend the party ot Ferrie's home that Perry claims you attended? A. N ; . , 3}, Did you ever meet Shaw? A. No. Q. Are you colboretely try ing to withhold any information from me regarding the porty a A. N Secend Test: Q. Wave you told me the complete truth here today? A. Yes. Q. Pid you attend the party Perry says you dic? A. Ne. (Q. Age you -trying to withhold any information irom me regarding this case? AY No. . a == i Ss HW 54462 Docld:32190039 Page 9
June 21, 1987 | | | | . Re: Lins. a b hae NMeMaines & f. Did you Me to Mr. Nawkias at all? A. Yes. a Q. Did Perry ever tell you that the President was poling to be assassinated? A WY . : dde aie : : : . Lid you go to the party at Dave's house that Perry says you did? A. No. Are you attempting to protect ox cover up for anyone? A. No. Ave you trying to hold back any information from me now? A. No. (eke Have you told me the complete truth here today? A. Yes. — | (2. Would you lic if it would help you stay out of jail? A. Yes. . Weare you ever present when any people talked about assassinating the President? A, No. a , . - . ds Perry telling the truth about you attending the party’ A. No. Q. Are you attempting to withhold any information from me now? A. No, Have you purposely licd to any of my questions? A. No. & <S 5] yp ey uring the first three tests, her polygrams contained reactions to the relevant vestion: “Are you trying to withheld or conceal any information from me?" Following the third test, she explained that she suspects Perry Russo might be "a little queer" fov Mike Fitzgereld. There was not a reaction to the question \ ia the test following this. explanation, a] Manele. the Subject was asked by this examiner why she thought Perry Russo was telling this story. She explained that the lest time she saw him, which was in June or | July of 1965, he asked her if she would marry him. She stated that he said that he wanted to marry her so that he wouldn't have to go into the military service. She stated that she told him she would not marry him. She then quoted him as seying, "You have pot-tc marry me and help keep me out of the service." She stated that she again told him she would not marry him and then further quoted him za saying, “if you won't marry me, I'M have.to find someone else who will." She added that she believes he is telling thia story in an endeavor to avoid going . ~~ < a t HW 54462 Docld: 32190039 Page 10
Mr. Hawkins June 21, 1967 | (RES Lillie Mae hichiaines CONCL USION: ieeeenenennatal Afte er careful analysis of this Subject's polygrams, itis the © opinion of the x examiner that she told substantially the truth during her examination and inter ro gation, , aA nard H. Harrelson — ONARDE KEELER, INC, mad a oe TS We, 34462 DocId:32190039 Page 11
On June 22, 1967, L. H. Harrell jon, in a telephone conversation with a con- fidential source in New Orleans, Louisiana, obtained the following information with regard to Perry Russo. : This informant, who is well known to’ L.H.H. and who is a polygraph examiner || having been trained at the Keeler Polygraph Institute, stated that Perry Rlisso was | Bxantined by another polygraph examiner with the Sheriff's Office in New Orleans nd that he had heard that the Sheriff's Office examiner stated that Russo was lying - regarding the story of the plot to assassinate the late John I. Kennedy. i i \ his informant also advised L.H.H. that Perry Russo had been subjected to ;arco-interrogation, using sodium pentathol and that he had further been subjected b hypno-interrogati He stated that a local psychiatrist subsequently blasted Jistrict Attorney Garkison for using these two techniques and suggested that Russo should be examined on \the polygraph which should be more reliable. This informant rucstated that he received a call requesting him to examine Russo in regard to his vhf tory. He stated that he was told that Russo wanted to meet him first to see what '--kind of a person he was. ae! t | : | He stated that he made an appointment and met Russo for the first time Friday, . " June 16, 1967. He stated that at this time he talked for a while and Russo requested © , that he be given a trial run on the polygraph and that he wanted to be asked 10 or 20 \\ juestions and intended to lie to some of them to see if the examiner could detect . \ite The source stated that he instead had Russo write down a number on a piece of | paper and place it.in his pocket. He stated that he then made Russo a bet of $5.00 hat he could pick out the number, He further stated that Russo called the pet, the test was run and the examiner picked out the number. . a Hn He stated that Russo appeared in his office on June 19, 1987 to be examined in re- gard to his story reporting the plot to assassinate the late John F. Kennedy. He stated that he attempted to examine Russo but that hisPneumo tracing (Ereathing) ‘was so erratic that he reported to D.A, Garrison that he felt Russo was an untit. subject for polygraph testing at this time. He further stated that he did talk with Russo about his tracing and explained to him that he obviously had something | bothering him. He stated Russo told him that he told the story in court because he was getting so much pressure from D.A. Garrison and also NBC. He $tated that “Russo further made the statement to him that he did not kno ENR GREY SPape ws soy “* present at the meeting or not. He stated that Russo addedit SRALZIne Ha Hie, sai '"yes' or "no" that he would have to say "no"! that Clay Shaw/was no DBE es ent. 4 i al HW 4462 Docld: 32190039 Page 12.
This examiner stated that he asked Russo why he went into court and under oath stated that Shaw was present at the alleged mecting. He stated that Russo replied that he fully intended to go into court and testify that he did not know if Shaw was present or not but became angered by Shaw's attorney's question, ''Do you believe in God" and afterwards did testify that Shaw was definitely present. ; This informant stated that Russo admitted having undergone psychiatric treatment for one and one-half years. He stated that Russo admitted to homosexual acts. his informant stated that he fully believes that he would have been able to break sso had he continued. He stated that after giving a verbal report to Mr. Garrison that Mr. Garrison told him in no uncertain terms to keep his mouth shut and not to gay anything about the test or what Russo said. This informant further stated that is official written report to Mr. Garrison is going to indicate that in his epinion Russo was an unfit subject on Monday, June. 19, 1967. , OTE: -The erratic breathing pattern that was described by this informant can indicate _.claustrophobia, however, in all of the experience that. Ihave hadin conducting iolygraph examinations, an erratic breathing ‘pattern a as a general gule is an indica- ion that the subject is heing deceptive. = me a m ad HW 54462 Docld:32190039 Page 13