apagiy SECHE: l=43 i | very common Spanish name. Do you want to tell me who he is or if you have. anything onhim? Maybe it might ring avbell. | a Mr. Goldsmith. Apparently, Mr. Ruiz was a Cuban intelli- gence officer at the Embassy, Cuban Embassy. Z 5 Mr. Shaw. I do not recall him there when I was there. 5 é | Mr. Goldsmith. What did you say that Mr. | ~ i . e 7 | responsibilities were, if you said? S | Mr. Shaw. I did not say. I used his name -- he was : ; | another officer, like I was, in Cuban operations. = a = a Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether he had anything to | : 4 | do with the photo operation.. | = 2 Mr. Shaw. I. do not know. He may have; I do not know. | ap : 12 I do not think: he did. He may. have. Z 14 Mr. Goldsmith. After your arrival in Mexico City, did 2 . : '§ | anyone attempt to recruit Ascue? ! : a Mr. Shaw. As far as I know, there was no attempt made r 7 to recruit Ascue after my arrival. My memory could be playing | — 4 z Is | tricks on me. I know I never went after him. | in , : a (A brief recess was taken.) ~ | é oe Mr. Goldsmith. I would like to get into the number of | ewe Ot people who were in Cuban Operations in October of 163, soptenbel, iy | ; | co ra el October of '63. Could you tell me again how many? 4 23 Mr. Shaw. If you could show me a list of the people at a 24 ithe American Embassy at that time, I think I could pretty well 3 jquickly, in the. station -- if you have such a list, I probably | i —SEBRET 5 Lo at angremaecs ay m7 TAS TOME aS HW 50955 Docld:32977914 Page 44 ALDERSON REPORTING COMSANE
ne 1-44 | could very quickly identify those that. had some connection © + i; with Cuban Ops. 3 i Mr. Goldsmith. The Agency has not given us that list @ 4 | today to have for this purpose. fo Mr; Shaw. Do you have one lying around? | ~ i . i oS 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. No. & 7 i So far, according to my recollection of appearances, & 2 il we have Mr. Phillips, yourself and | | 3s 3 } Mx. Shaw.. When I arrived there, fould have | oo otg | been there. He would have been gonesby that time... —. Goo, John'.Zambernardi. would have been involved in the technical | S14 pops: ! oO = 1 | I am not sure whether Pegqy Magret was there or not. 2 ota ; Mr. Goldsmith. How many case officers were there!in | &. 1g Cuban operations? | = re Mr. Shaw. Probably. just three, three or four, I am not 2 13 Mr. Goldsmith. There were three case officers,probably = | four? é 39 Mr. Shaw. At. least. three, yes. Dave and Ray and myself. | a) | ° Mx. Goldsmith. Was thereaatfourth? ot gt © S27 3 | Mr. Shaw. I do not know. I cannot recall, offhand, who | 72 |else was there. | Wait a minute. lwas there, as a researcher -- | | | 23 i what was it called? Research analyst. i i i ' SECRET HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 45 ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY
oy ("3 Oo sates eat a: Uae Mr. Goldsmith. I am interested now only in case officers. 1-45 a I..do-have avlist»here, réferred.-to-~as CIA: 169-70% which ‘has a list of Agency employees. Would you please examine that + bt io wn ct (Pause) nm How did you four divide up your responsibilities? 5 4 Mr. Shaw. Okay. ; | wt “et iL . t S yt Perhaps there would have been myself, | | Dave S i a £  , +Phillips and” e 4 ms 4 : 3 + | Mr. Goldsmith. Was | a case officer? ! a : | - to Mr. Shaw. | was not. considered -- yes, I guess | 2 |, | she was a case officer. I do not know what cases she handled. > wt a i $ 1, | She did more of what we call INTEL analyst work. She had ‘c 8 H io 2 |, | officer rank, I believe. I believe she was a GS- -9 or -ll or | z , | something. I do not remember. = ed But Peagy; the girl I mentioned awhile ago, was not there | as 2 Funtil 1965. That was about it. “a ir The ranking would have been David Phillips, myself, : pa ; i a Ho av teat! = 3 | " Mr. Goldsmith. How did you divide up your responsibilities? 5 22 Mr. Shaw. Let me interject. Jack Stewart was there, pat | 44 phe was not in Mexico City. | —— tet 1 DOR “ep int ‘Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Fine, s a : Mr. Shaw. We were given certain agents to handle and we et 4 /& gee to z+: ihandled those agents, and Dave Phillips would decide what OOF ALSERSON Soe Be Baur HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 46 ALDER 5 R MA
gy 3 a3 23 Ky oe SE i 1-46 irs oy =F > other activities he would pass around. I notice -- | | ty i 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Whichswere those other activities? re) Mr. Shaw. Anything that might come to light. tnat Dave ; {| a | \ i ons -- an ad hoc requirement;,or something like that, he j ! i i \ 3 a might ask any of us to help out, or somebody else might ask | t ; i rs 5 us to do something. I went out and helped surveil'a meeting | g 7 Jone time for one of these quys down here. ‘It had nothing to | 8 ya with Cuban Ops. | : | Mr. Goldsmith. What procedures did the four of you | rood ri ‘ = 0 | establish for reviewing photographs? = Ho Mr. Shaw. The only procedure that was established was a A . = 12 | route the photographs and show them to any agent, personnel, | il : id | who might be in a position to identify the persons in the : : \< | photographs. 7 | : is Mr. Goldsmith. Did any of you identify all the photographs = fin the Cuban Operation Branch? | 4 i7 | Mr. Shaw. I do not know. : : af Mr. Goldsmith. Was there a system to this? | wn yo | E 9 | Mr. Shaw. If there was, I did not set it up. - When I got | S ® | snotosrare I would show them to LITAMIL-9 and have him tell | me ime who they were and I would write a contact report and submit | py Oe | co ca “2 Lit to my Chief, who was Dave Phillips. . . . | I would assume that | probably did the same | thing with his agents. V. , ! | i bd € Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Shaw, unless there was a system for  SEGRET nas : : NY Tt Soe AM HW 50955 DocIld:32277214 Page 47 ALQERSON REFORTING COMPANY i
fea a Wm) Pe mi has 1-47 ate OF SeGe i on . | reviewing the photographs, you had no way of knowing that © 3+ |all of the photographs were being reviewed by you and other Cuban Operations. case officers? and © 4 Mr. Shaw. I had no way of knowing. I was seeing all the : = ; | photographs, that is true. I assumed I did. 5 7 e Mr. Goldsmith. You had no way of knowing that? S y Mr. Shaw. . Not unless I would have gone to pick them up o 3 | from the man who took them and developed them, which I did not ¢ Mr. Goldsmith. With regard to the transcripts, did you have any procedure for insuring that ailceof the transcripts VASULHGTON , were being reviewed? Mr. Shaw. Did I have a procedure? No. The station BUT LDENG, ta REPORTERS # routed the transcripts to the various officers. Winn Scott quite often routed them. I notice you had a transcript some- tn where here ~~ wu, Mr. Goldsmith. We will look at the transcripts later on. § 7) -£ 19 | specific officer. = re Mr. Goldsmith. Were all of the transcripts pertaining to. | Cuban operations that were sent to the station reviewed by at 724 least one of the Cuban operations case officers? Mr. Shaw. I do not know. nN 4-2 ; _ Mr. Shaw. Winn Scott quite often routed those to a | | | Mr. Goldsmith. Was Mr. Scott a very demanding man? i wry Mr. Shaw. What do you mean by "demanding"? __ SEORET 2E> ORT: NG COM PANS Na iH HW 50955 Doold: 49977914 Page 48
SEGRE: | Mr. Goldsmith. Did he expect his employees to work hard 1-48 | operations case officers reviewed all of the transcripts? 2 | and to perform thorough, competent work? | 1 | Mr. Shaw. I assume he did. He never said so in so many + joe. | 2 5 | It was my understariding that until he was remarried he ~ 7 | é — long hours in the Embassy, before I got there. Sometimes 1 E 7 he had people in there at 9:00 o'clock at night. 2 : Mr. Goldsmith. Compardd to other station chiefs that : 5 | you had worked under, was he more demanding or less? : ad Mr. Shaw.. I would not say he was any more. He expected | S ; | E work out of his people and got it. | = i i $ af Mr. Goldsmith. Is it fair to say that the Mexico City | : i uo, ; co = 4 station had one of the biggest telephone surveillance opera- = i : ' z . | tions in existence? | wt i . i : 5! Mr. Shaw. Certainly in Latin America. | | 5 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Any CIA station? r a Mr. Shaw. I don't*know about any CIA station. Certainly * | i z a jin Latin America. It ate up a lot of man hours. : i ! i - | Mr. Goldsmith. In light of the fact that Mr. Scott | ~ i i é 20 | apparently was a demanding man and that you had one of the -. | . ee surveillance operations in effect in Latin America, | a px? 72 | your testimony today is that you do not. know whether the Cuban * | | | i | @ 24 | Mr. Shaw. I do not.think that the prefacing was necessary. 4 : | ! bua tise ‘The latter part. of that, in which you asked me if I am aware SECRET HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 49 ALSERSON REPORTING CON egg 2 ERY
“that all of the transcripts of the Cuban Ops were examined 7} | by the Cuban Ops section, I would have to, again, say I do tw 3 | not know. ia 4 | (Discussion off the record.) = 2 Mr. Goldsmith. We just went off the record for a moment 5 , | because Mr. Shaw had a question about where his car was parked = 7am whether there would be any problem about that, and I | z , | indicated that I did not think there would be a problem. | “ | Mr. Shaw, do you recall who delivered the. photographs | : 1g | te the station, the tape from the survéillance opemation? | : a ‘Mr. Shaw. It was my understanding that the technician | : | pickea them up. Bob zambernardi would have picked them up | i a 1 from the aqent. . | = 7 You are talking of the Cuban Embassy now? - : A i : sl Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, and consulate. | : 3 | Mr. Shaw. It is my understanding that. he would have : = ; | picked them up from the agent who took the photographs. The 5 13 | agent who took the photographs developed them, printed them, = i i 2 9 jand turned the prints: over to Mr. Zambernardi. That is the. way : 20 p I think it worked. : = 2 — | Mr. Goldsmith. How would you actually get to review the ! photographs? Who would bring them to you? Mr. Shaw. Usually I do not remember who brought them to i me. I have the impression it. may have been| but 28 I ‘could be wrong: Maybe Bob brought them to me. fT do not know. a: HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 50 ALQERSCON RESCRTNG COMPAR,
| But I would get a batch of photographs to go through. ae 2 | Mere Goldsmith. Who had reporting responsibility for : | passing along the information that had been obtained from the : @ . 4 photographs and the transcripts? | 2 | Mr. Shaw. There was little reporting that came out of ! 5 , | the photographs. Usually, it- yielded what we called operational | : 7 information rather than intelligence information, to enable us, 6 s | to develop a better understanding of who was in the area, of | ; 5 | who was in the Cuban. Embassy, and what they were up to. - ‘a As far as reporting intelligence that came from those, | 2 od it probably was reported by the reports section of the Embassy. s 2 Next to Winn Scott's office was the CA Chief's office and, : > 2 19 : next to that,-- I'm getting in the new embassy now. I don : = if Hota not remember where the report section was in the old embassy. : : a We had reports officers who actually repaired most of the : 14 reports from raw reports, if you will, reported by the case ! ~ i A il officers. , a 7 Again, I. would like to point out that these photographs : : | yielded very! little reportable intelligence. It was mostly = 29 operational intelligence. | : vem i Mr. Goldsmith. Understood. | <> pe 22 Who was George Monroe? i i 23 Mr. Shaw. Jwas a former agent, Special. Agent} i co ; 4% of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.who retired or resigned, z= = ~ do not know how he left the Bureau, and worked in Mexico HW 50955 Docld:39277214 Page 51
4 4 i City on the outside, aS=a non-official cover asset for Winn Lory a ou 20024 (202) S$54-2345 H.c “> Oo VASUTHCTON , i iH j | id! i I hee REPORTERS AUPTLDTNG , i SW. on Tru STREET, rs i | ' i { i i H 1 1 | i : t Sas 72 | i } Mr. Shaw. I do not know. I said if it had been before a a HW 50955 Docld:3 | Scott. Ann Goodpasture, I believe, had a lot of contact with -I very seldom saw I had nothing | to do with him operationally. Mr. Shaw. Yes. i : : | Teresa Proenza. I do not think he had any interest in Ascue. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know what his responsibilities were? Mr. Shaw. I believe his responsibilities had to do with | dealings with the Mexican government, liaison responsibilities. | 7 think George was used by Winn because George had good contacts i in the Ministry of Interior, which would have been sort of the | it 4 | eq uivalent of the Department of Justice here and out of that | Ministry came, for example, the man who became President of | i | i Mexico. He was the station assetyicontact, not agent. | | i is that correct? ; , ‘ | Mr. Goldsmith. You mentioned earlier, Mr. } i| . i Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know. why lhad an inter- est in Eusbio Ascue? - Mr. Shaw. No, I do not believe it was. I think it was | t i t t | ; . Mr. Goldsmith. Who was the individual who had the interest in Ascue? i my arrival, I would suspect it was | He was carrying | the ball down there and was responsible for that sort of : i af | gay ALDERSON “REFORTS 2277214 Page 52
ie a ro tre Ou 2HO2% €2027) S54~-2945 .c, “ (a) ry VASHTEMCTON , REPORTYES BUCLDING, We c 300 7TH STREDT, ee? tos 4h 8 q 1-52 activity. I do not know that he did, but if it happened in, say, late '62 or somewhere in there, it probably would have d tl been Tom who would have done that. | Mr. Goldsmith. What was | position at the Embassy? Mr. Shaw. He was not at the Embassy then. He was at | | ann the Embassy back in 1965. I. do not know, for a number, of ‘year ; At that time, Charlie hdd gone back to Headquarters and. he a. | was involved in Cuban operations from Headquarters, the detail ' | of which were notmmade known to me. Whether they were made | known to Winn Scott or Dave Phillips or others, I do not know. | Mr. Goldsmith. : When would he have made an effort, if he did, to recruit Teresa Proenza? Mr. Shaw. .I am not sure that he ever tried to recruit. I am merely saying that he had a lot of interest. »I do not ‘think anybody ever tried to recruit her. If they did; they | were wasting their time.. Mr. Goldsmith... Why were they wasting their time? MY. Shaw. She was a pretty tough nut. I never saw ~~ Lf | I canwremember -- 1 do not. remember any vulnerability of | Teresa Proenza. Mr. Goldsmith. What was the nature of Mr. | interest in her? Mr. Shaw. I do not know. Some Cuban operational interest, i ‘ maybe trying to get some information from her through a third MP ANS
Se oe StS wa Eke 8 ar 1-53 a party. I have no idea. . . . a 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. When did he spend time in Mexico City that Hi he would have had an opportunity? . t.> Mr. Shaw. He visited Mexico City quite often. = : Mr. Goldsmith. Even though he was not stationed down : , | there, he visited often? : g 7 | Mr. Shaw. That is correct. He madé trips in and out of e / Mexico City. | | “ . Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know what Teresa Proenza's position ‘ : ¢ | was at the Cuban Embassy or Consulate? | | g i Mrs Shaw. f think by that time she was out of the Embassy, = \ . i % 12 || was she not? I do not remember. She left. | . | ‘> : 14 | Teresa Proenza was a Mexican. She was not a Cuban. And | : ae: am under the impression that by the time I got there, | xv fT . | = |; | Teresa had left the Embassy. I may be wrong. I think that ! : 1. | she was involved. in cultural activities. | = | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether Mexican intelligence E 1s [would have had any penetration agents at the Cuban Embassy or | : | consulate? | 5 0 | Mr. Shaw. I think they would have tried. I do not know 2 [how effective Mexican intelligence was. I did not deal with | 224 It would be assumed that they made every attempt, the i 4 24 | Cubans were gradually removing Mexicans from their employee, 23 | from the Cuban Embassy. I think it highly unlikely that the 3 “St 4 a ‘| WW 509455 Docld: 32277214 Page 54
REPORTERS BULEDING, WASETNGTON, B.C, 28024 (202) S54-2345 We S. A aw a ~ “a HW 50955 MO res] ra) Pb ant sy SO oy oO ry How Ay so Ge Eada 8 1-54 a | . . : a | Mexican government, given its position, was the only government 4 i i im the Western Hemisphere which maintained relations with 1 i i | Cuba, would have been -- it would have been highly unlikely for 1 i i them to have tried to pitch a Cuban national. On the other hand, I think it would have been likely, | . . | and would have been expected of them, to have tried to find out from any Mexican working in the Cuban Embassy what was going one What this comes down to, of course, is gardenérs. and secretaries. Mr. Goldsmith. Why do you make that distinction between a Cuban national and a Mexican? Mr. Shaw. I make that distinction because of the flap |; potential If the Mexicans had attempted to pitch a Cuban and the Cuban had not accepted that pitch and had reportdéd it to his superiors, the Mexican Foreign Office then would have had a problem with the Cuban Foreign Ministry. Mr. Goldsmith. Of course, the Mexican government was also taking a risk by being involved in the liaison operation or. the Agency as well.. Mr. Shaw. One could assume that they had measured their | risk, yes, certainly. There is an element of risk in every operation. Do not get me wrong. I do not know whether they hdd anything going or not. I would assume, just based on my experience, that they would not have tried to pitch Cubans,
1-55 i that they would have tried to exert subtle coercion on | 2 | Mexicans working there to report in the interest of Mexican | 1 | national security on what is going on in that Embassy. | ‘| Mr. Goldsmith. Who would have been in a position to know | 2 ; las the Mexican government. successfully penetrated the Cuban | : 6 Embassy or consulate? | . | S 7 | Mr. Shaw. | | 3 ~ S 2 | The chief of chiefs of the Mexican service or services. | g 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Any American? : 0 Mr. Shaw. Not that I know of. | Z | Mrz Goldsmith. Do you know whether there was. any coordina- = $ | tion between the telephone tap operations and the photo o z 1 | operations. ©-For example, if a conversation of interest came | = 4 Z uf up on tne tap operation, would the people monitoring the call | = il i : 1s be able to contact through an intermediary the photo bases | 2 i = 1g | to warn them or indicate to them that someone is coming of | F ir interest? : _ 1 2 8 Mr. Shaw. It is my understanding that such a system did ! A : 19 | not exist, and I do not believe that the guys monitoring the 5 20 | telephone tap intercept bases were made aware of photograph | | acme, 2! | coverage. ! er | | i 22 However, I would assume that a man running a technical | 22 operation, if he heard something exciting on the line, as | ; ‘ | opposed to a tape*several days later, would notify his case i : i t 3 ; OP aAmEs 2s | officer right away and then it might be possible for the case HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 56
el = EY = 7 N t a ; ws 8 ~ os : oS a 7 Neel “ 3 aQ = ~ . a ra Y a - 19 a és = tt par i a “ = “ he ne ‘ o 5 i 14 a tf = ta a - 6 A ie > = : = 4 > wots 2 18 a = 19 ~ Cc = 20 31 OS Re ae 2 a “d an 4a mG 7 4 aa HW 50955 Docld: i> ees AS a he wo da bY aS Mw. 1-56 | officer, assuming a quick reaction capability, to crank up the people at the photo house to take pictures. This swas in | the most perfect of all worlds. Usually things did not work that way and you end up out onsthe street, in the middle of i the night two days later, contacting whoever it is taking ntonagma Mr. Goldsmith. Do you. know whether the Mexico City | station ever obtained a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald? | Mr. Shaw. To my understanding, they did not. I never | saw anything down there that looked like Lee Harvey Oswald. - Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever hear an allegation that | | Charlotte Bustos, at CIA Headquarters in Washington, found a | photograph. of Oswald, or sgomeéne she thought to be Oswald, | in the Headquarters files shortly after the assassination? -Mr. Shaw. No, I have never heard such a story. Knowing Charlotte -- not knowing her well, but having known her over the years, I would assume that had she found such a thing she would have rung a big loud bell and say, hey, look what I found. Mr. Goldsmith. With regard’ to“the. photo: coperation,. ‘let. | ase “assume. for a. Moinent that. you.come.across a picture of / interest. Did you have any way of determining on what day and. i { | approximately what time the. picture would have been taken? Mr. Shaw. Very definitely. } Mr. Goldsmith. How would you have done that? ; ALSERSON REPORT! 322977214 Page 57 oo
De! ee c. weagss wee, ae eined | ol ft unt oF | Mr. Shaw. The photographs were squared off and were ih) annotated. We knew the day. We knew, usually, morning or td afternoon, a.m. or p.m. Sometimes you could judge by the © 4 | sequence. = 7 Furthermore, sometimes the actual time of the person going 5 in and going out was actually annotated, if the person operating S | was operating manually, he would no doubt, the guy with the ; | red-checkered Hawaiian shirt went in at 10205, He would note’ : | s | that in a little log. . | : ‘a I do not know whether he would note it on the photograph | S i 2 7 or submit the log with the number keyed to the log in the | 2 2 | photograph. ‘Quite often we knew to the minute when a. person | : i a 2 3 fin a photograph . came in or went out or stood in front or walked = is | Mr. Goldsmith. I see. > 4 | : te | So, to your knowledge, there were photo-production logs | : 7 | that could be checked? | : : fa | Mr. Shaw. To my knowledge, such logs did exist, yes. | ‘3 | whether the logs were kept after the information was noted on 39 |the photograph, on the back of the photograph or wherever it | 1} /}was noted, I havecno idea. 2p = 23 4 The photographs, quite often came in the form of 35 mm. i 22 icontact strip prints and then blow-ups of a number of those. 4 I recall =- I had not thought about it all these years, i i 28 ‘put usually you knew when a guy, you certainly knew when he went QepRey wei: ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 456
1-58. in on Tuesday morning, the 16th of May, whatever that date i j i ! | | was. . ! bb Mr. Goldsmith. Who would make the notations on the back of ub ire the photograph or contact print as to the time? t | ! i ! t | f ! | | \ | | ? 5 i . Mr. Shaw. In our case, I believe it was the man taking a 5 the photographs because he took the photographs, developed = 7 || the photographs, printed them and turned them over. x a Mr. Goldsmith. If he were to put the time on, he would ow | 3 9 | have to go to his log and see what the time was and then make | a i | dd = '¢ | the entry? . . | = i! Mr. Shaw. Right. He probably made a little notation to < I, ; , ; ; , = +2 | himself like I mentioned, the bright shirt or something. Then | 8 : i = 13 i he would recognize that person in the photograph and make that = 4 H = = 11 | notation. = i = 1S i (Pause) = is | Mr. Goldsmith. When was the first time that the name “ 7 | Lee Harvey Oswald came to your attention? e = ia | Mr. Shaw. It would have been the evening of the day of |. = 19 | the assassination. oo 5 20 | Mr. Goldsmith. How did that: happen? ! cee UE Mr. Shaw. We listened. We had a radio. I think it was | i oP ‘one of those Zenith Trans-Oceanics in one of the Embassy bo } 3 211 offices: I was out at an agent meeting when I heard about the 23 } assassination and I came back to the Embassy and went upstairs |
1-59 i \ | and we sat and stood around that radio and I believe it was Os Soviet Embassy, was made aware after the notoriety of the man JU, @ 2} in Pat Johnson's office -- her name was something else in | i | those days. I can't remember her married name. | | © 4 And they said something about the police said it was Lee : a >| Harvey Oswald, or something. I do not remember. That was the | a é first time that it came to my attention. & a Mr. Goldsmith. I would like you now to take a look at S cra No. 13 which is a transcript of the conversation allegedly 3g % | involving Oswald, a conversation taking place on 1 October '63,) a i . he = ¢ | Would you please read through that? pe oly (Pause) 2 i = a When was the first time that you saw that transcript, if | a z 13 | you have ever seen it before? ° a Mr. Shaw. I do not. know whether I have ever seen it or a ; "E is | not, ‘but I may’ well have. I was aware that he had called the | | | “ 7 i was established, but I do not recall ever seeing this before = '3 | that. | — a | = 3 | Normally, I would not. 5 2 Mr. Goldsmith. Prior to the assassination, did you see Se Mr. Shaw. No. If I did, I did not pay any attention. iy Loe) | I do not believe that it was on a Cuban Line. a3 i uh © .) Mr. Goldsmith. No, it was not. S yd ery Mr. Shaw. Sometimes you can tell who saw these things by ! SEReeT # , Sed; | i ALOSESSON RESORTING coMe aay HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 60
i i ' re 3 | i H | 7 4 : w it = e 4 = Bou foe] - i ~ i = t rs Fa wt oo ~ nN i Lned id | ~ / Ne 1 ~ 2 | e cos it ang ™ i th . a} roy yt e S i e tld = | YY , a ! = ta le ! } = = ~ = r — 4 = id I a i = is | an ee! za a ~ y = i = re iso: . i _, i) = | wT Hf . u ce va! ge 18 | ow j : H n H i = 1g | | ! a i) = ! °c ols aan o ay | ue { 4 214 aes eo if Sa © ic fy | “ ! e ae if i 1 WD ay 4 i io HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 61 i the initials up top. the person drafting the cable to help Headquarters identify. Mx. Goldsmith. There are notwritings or notations on that one, however. | -Would you please read‘i CIA 177, which is a cable from Mexico City station dated October 8th? (Pause) Mr. Shaw. Yes, this is tvpical where they try to identify somebody that was in the Embassy at the same time. Of course, | that does not-sound like it. Mr. Goldsmith. This was the famous cable that has given | rise. to some of the issues that the Committee was. concerned with. My first question is, did you have anything to do with) the writing of this cable? Mr. Shaw. No} I did not. I would not have had. } Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know how the photograph referred | to in paragraph number two of that cable was in some way Linked { ' to Oswald? Mr. SHaw. I would assume my answer to your question is no. I would assume that this was an effort on the part of Lee Oswald, the man who had made the call. Mr. Goldsmith. Do-you know how she made that conclusion that the photograph reflected Oswald? Mr. Shaw. No. I do not think she did. I think she merely says that we got a guy who looks like he might be an COMPARLY
1-61 American going in, and maybe this is the fellow. I do not see from this cable any conclusion that that is Oswald. I a3 | rather suspect they never got a picture of Oswald. This is the one that appeared there, that looked like it could be ae dan an American. Therefore, an effort was made to help Headquarters i 3, | by saying a man who looked like he might be an American entered the Soviet Embassy at that time. i 2002% (202) S54-2445 Mr. Goldsmith. I agree with you, Mr. Shaw. Certainly, ~o) c. | the cable does not say that the photograph is a photograph of Dp. : 5 } | j i Oswald. At the same time, though, it gives the information 1} | in paragraph 1 on Oswald and the second paragraph makes’: ~~ 12 | reference to a photograph taken of someone who appears to be , VASHLNEO TOR , | North American. BUT EB ING ray i i 7 Certainly they wotlid:not have sent to Headquarters simply | 1s 'a cable indicating the existence of a photograph, so by putting: REPORTERS ig j;the photograph in paragraph 2-immediately below the information! ll, 8. 7 on Oswald, although the cable does not say that the photograph = ia vis one of Oswald, it does in some way suggest that they are = | : a = 19 |related. = 20 | ‘Mr. Shaw. It suggests to me that they know an American = } ' ' 44 |who claimed to be Lee Oswald called at a certain time, and at “ft ra ‘then they went to the photographs to see if they could find 22 ‘anybody who looked like he might be an American, and the | vi | 3 bh CL O @ (a4 ‘photo they found was of a man apparently 35, athletic build, As jabout 6 feet tall, receding hair:line and so forth; and they t COMP ARLY
tak wd = 5 S 3 ow ‘ a . wt i] as OM e a 7 rm me 2 o ™ S 3 a = ral = Ae S g ~ “i “a = 4 Me = a 1a = = = é in Fad a? =, le 2 Pa x ts i) = aI = we 12 wn ~ a « Ss 29 ral be 1S ene <i “~ © yar 2 7 ae WW 50955 Boocld: 1-62 ! | man who made the call. i Mr. Goldsmith. I understand your answer. I am hopeful that you understand that I am not. suggesting that the cable definitely says the photograph is one of Oswald. Mr. Shaw. No, I do not see that it does at all. Mr. Goldsmith. Would you please take a look, now, at | CIA 183? | | (Pause) Mr. Shaws All right, I have read it. Mr. Goldsmith. This is a cable, is it not, from CIA Headquarters back to the Mexico City station responding to the | earlier cable from the station reporting Oswald's contact? Mr. Shaw. That is what it looks like to me. that the station keep Headquarters advised of any further | contacts or positive identification of Oswald? i Mr. Shaw. Yes. P Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether the station ever sent any additional information to Headquarters concerning Oswald? Mr. Shaw. No, I do not, and I do not recall ever seeing this cable, either. Mr. Goldsmith. — Today is possibly the finst time that you have seen that cable? Mr. Shaw. It could well be, yes. You may have one with AP ARP ecegs N REZORTING COM PAR 32277214 Page 63 ALDERSS | submitted this on the off-chance that this might have beeni the | Mr. Goldsmith. The fifth paragraph of that cable requests | ; é $ i i i ‘ i i i t !
© 4 Fas wt = 2 ~~ ~ ow ' a : wt 8 ~*~ ON : a a 7 ~ a 4 3 fond Ne . a ray >) 2 ~ 6 S e = ry = tt oe “a = 14 2 ‘ BU ELD ENG my , RERPOWPEIES PB ta aay = a47 ra ts 2 18 n = 1s = 7 ~ e “ S 29 val to ae fen me 4 ee a <> oN “ 23 @ * me ‘i RAS os, fa = HW 50955 DocId:32277214 Page 64 ALSERSGN AE: my initials on it, but I doubt it. " Mr. Goldsmith. Looking at CIA 183, there is an arrow What do you think Mr. Scott was intending to indicate arrow it says "sic," s-i-c. } | when he wrote "sic" next to the "Henry". in “Lee Henry Oswald"? | | Mr. Shaw... I would rather suspect that he wrote this on | here subsequent to the assassination when the word came out it | “Harvey Oswald" rather than “Henry Oswald" unless there is something in here that says "Harvey." Is there any? Mr. Goldsmith. Nd, there is none. Mr. Shaw. I would imagine that is something he wrote on later so that they would get the file in the right name. That would be my quess. Mr. Goldsmith. Would you now take a look at CIA No. 14. You may also want to take a look at CHAANO. 15 at the same time. - | (Pause) Would you identify the document that you just reviewed? Mr. Shaw. What it. looks like is a normal LIENVOY trans-~ | cription. I see my name up here, but I don't see anything that indicates that I ever saw it. It looks like Scott and |Goodpasture made checks on it. There is my name, but there jis no indication, no initial on my» part. Probably I did not "see it. pointédi:to the word "Henry", “Lee Henry Oswald." Adjacent to
4 “ a 4 3 sl - “ = s > ey) ™ ! a ; wa fo) =~ ™ G a 7 any < mM . a a) Y ome * a} = ahd S G = t -_ a wy oa = 13 ) = -_ tA = id = at la i 4 2 tid a = te io > “ VF o a ta. s 3 n = i) ~ < a S 29 qt eras 22 a Saw 7 of AN 22 “ ao HY 50955 Doctd: if Hf 1-64 Mr. Goldsmith. What is the date of that transcript? Mr. Shaw. 28 September 1963 is what is listed on here. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall whether you ever saw that transcript before? Mr. Shaw. I do not recall. I must have seen it after- wards, because I know Sylvia Duran was a person who had dealt with Oswald. -Mr. Goldsmith. When was the first time that this trans- eript was linked to Oswald? Mr. Shaw. I have no idea. Mr. Goldsmith. Let us backstep for a moment... The transcript that appears at CIA No.«. 13 contains a notation in brackets by the transcriber that this is the same person who called a day or so ago. Mr. Shaw.. To the Soviet Embassy. * bd Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. Oswald also said I was there last Saturday. The trans- cript you just looked at, September 28th, was for a Saturday. Do you. recall whether anyone ever came to you and asked you whether:you were aware of a contact by Oswald? Mr. Shaw. I do not recall that anybody ever came to me, and I do not think that they did. This sounds familiar. I would have heard about this after the assassination, because I remember Sylvia Duran was the person being a Mexican citizen: inside the Cuban Embassy who I dealt with. Tene en ot Z ED hy ed A Se tay oe ow, 39977214 Page 65 ALDERSON REPORTING céMeasiy
1-65 Mr. Goldsmith. In other words, the point I was making 3 on the October lst transcript, it refers back to something 3 | that happened a day or two earlier, possibly Saturday, and 7 I wondered if Herb Minnell, when they were discussing this, = s came to you to discuss this matter? 5 7 Mr. Shaw. I do not believe they did. . Barbara probably 8 7 would have processed this, but I do. not recall that anybody x ; || ever came to me about it. ~ 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. Would you please now take a look i at CIA Nos. 16, 17, 18,:19 and 20? : 7 (Pause) $ 7 Mr. Shaw. Here you have one that I saw. Those are my : | ibbtials -~ No. 19. I did not see this one. z | Let me see what we have got here. 2 il “ 5 | (Pause) © : | , I have read it. a | Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Shaw, you have read through CIA : ig | document NO. 22. = a Mr. Shaw. Yes, I have not read them carefully, but I 5 29 | nave looked them over. an Mr. Goldsmith. Taking a look at CIA No. 16, could you awd 22! identify that document? Mr. Shaw. This is a LIENVOY transcript. Mr. Shaw. It is a summary. HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 66 ALDESSON BEZORTING COMBAAY Mr. Goldsmith. Is it a summary or a verbatim transcript?
crossed out. If you turn over a copple of pages, you will see: SeGas | i | Mr. Goldsmith. What is the date of that transcript? _ 3 2 Mr. Shaw. According to the thing in the margin, 27 | : September '63, 1963. This is really the same darned thing ! 4 here. = 5 Mr. Goldsmith. The same as the transcript that appears ! : 5 on CIA No. .17? | g ; . | Mr. Shaw. It appears to be. s 3 i Mr. Goldsmith. Approximately what time was this phone : 3 call received? | | z 19 i ' Mr. Shaw. It looks: like something put on by pen, "Five | z 1 i minutes after 4:00 in the afternoon." MF means a woman -- ! Soy is that MF? | o> : 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Do not worry about that. | & td When was the first time you sawithis transcript? : 5 1s Mr. Shaw. I do not remember... | : 14 Mr. Goldsmith. bid you see it before the assassination? | - i : 17 Mr. Shaw. I have no idea. | : 1a Mx. Goldsmith. Yournname appears in the right-hand | = 19 corner. é 39 | Mr. Shaw. My name appears there. | However, it is not | CS dey av IAS e.3 d my initials on another thing.which deals with the same period. m tie Mr. Goldsmith. I will do that in a minute. © a4 i Do you know whether this transcript was linked to Oswald | : prior to the assassination? A A u WW 50955 Docld: 32277214 Page 67 ALOERSON REPORTING COMeaky
: i | 0 ~ i i \ - | i bate eo it = 24 Pol ~ oH as ‘ ! i wt lo} ~ i ~ » | = 1 a 7) ~~ = i mM i i 2 ~ f = | ™ i i . a | cay 7 i a i “ ’ : = id iq S =- ort fi be ay = t < . 7 4 i = i245 ta t ' = i" : : = - 4 = El ‘| £ mH te ti = iw t 2 i ~ q ~ a x te 4 a: | > : noe dl 7 t 7 i 7a v7 = ia i wa i = 13 | < Cc ieee Fae! 29 { : | Qfo3 te <=; a : Tey in! i me so oO “i a2 u H th n u WW 509455 Docld: 32277214 Page 66 Ny a % aif on 3 ter toe Se Eee Mr. Shaw. I do not know whether it was or not. I gather it was not. Mr. Goldsmith. Why is that? Mr. Shaw. It does not say. There is no mark on it, Oswald on here anywhere. Mr. Goldsmith. What are these numbers on the bottom right-hand =- Mr. Shaw. That is the file number. Mr. Goldsmith. What file would that be? Mr. Shaw. That. says subject file. 50-8-10-6. I do not know off-hand what that is. I think the 50 stands for | Mexico. 8-10-6 would be a subject file. Probabl¥, possibly somephace where they put..anformation Jon people where they are trying to travel to the Soviet Union. |Z do not know; that is a guess.. Mr. Goldsmith. Let's take a look at CIA No. 19. Mr. Shaw. Okay. CIA No. 19, 27 September, that looks like my initial. It is very similar. Mr. Goldsmith. In the upper right-hand corner? Mr. Shaw. t cannot imagine anyone else putting it there. Mr. Goldsmith. This is the conversation that took place ‘later in the day, is that correct? Mr. Shaw. 27 September 63, right. Mr. Goldsmith. Is it fair to say that this conversation ‘took place sometime around 4:26 in the afternoon, according to Cov eANY
er Mr. Goldsmith... Do you know when’it was first linked-to hn, es aia 4 we is SF BASS 1-68 | the documents? | = 2 | ' Mr. Shaw. There is an» indication there. | 3 \ Mr. Goldsmith! When did this document first come to your) @ 4 | attention? | 3 | Mr. Shaw. I havevno idea, because there is no date up | 3 \ there. I do not know when it was circulatéd:or anything. u : | | 7 | | 2.5 Oswald? ~ 2024 (902) S94-23n5 c oe) Mr. Shaw. I do not. Dp, rg Mr. Goldsmith. Dial ever come to ' you to discuss this transcript or conversation with you in VASHTHGTOL , 12 | reference to the transcript. dated October lst? G : 12 Mr. Shaw. Not that I remember. | | z '4 | Mr.. Goldsmith. At the bottom of CIA No. 19, it says : i : 13 copy O&wald P-file. Essentially, do you know when that nota- | 3 i z ts tion was put on? | ‘ in| Mr. Shaw. I do not know. : : 13 | Mr. Goldsmith. Turning back to CIA-177, there is a ! : 13 : notation on the left-hand side of the page. It says, D:200-5-41. < 29 | Do you know what that would refer to? ! qt Mr. Shaw. I have no idea what the D stands for. The | t | eG pa? 22 i 200-5-41 sounds like a file number. t 4 | 224 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know for what? & a4 | Mr. Shaw. No, I.do not, but I would assume, again, that |. 23 | maybe that would be -- if it is in the 50 series, it would be a HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 69
a Mexico City file. | 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. This is a Headquarters document. Mr. Shaw. That is a Headquarters file number. JI have no 5 7 idea what the D stands for. It does not look right. 3 ' Mr. Goldsmith. I have asked this question before, but S ye the record and purposes of clarification, I would like to S 2 | ask you again, to your knowledge, after the Mexico City sta- 3 | tion received the cable from Headquarters dated October 10th zy 0 | oF llth, did: the: Mexico City Station ever send any additional = | : i | information concerning Oswald to Headquarters? a i 3 21 Mr. Shaw. “To my knowledge, they did not, but I would REPORTERS BUEELDONG , 1-69 But it may be a Headquarters -- is this Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever speak tol a Mexico City document, or a Headquarters document? “12 have no way of knowing. jabout is | this? | 1g | Mr. Shaw. No. . 1 a 7 Mr. Goldsmith. _ t = i : ia Mr. Shaw. No. a E19 Mr. Goldsmith. Dave Phillips? < a of Mr. Shaw. No. - ie : wee OF Hl Mrw Goldsmith. What, if anything, do you know about the Ls 7 e we’ 22) arrest of Sylvia Duran shortly after the assassination? af 3 i 4 235 Mr. Shaw. I remember that Sylvia Duran was arrested. i : a 24 i I do not know why. I could have suggested that myself, but I | 25. do not remember. ; Ar ARr : Sth ad Ae ad Bs Soe 2 ALOERSON RESORTING COMPANY HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 70 {
Wo Sa 1-70 F I do remember sending a message to Winn Scott suggesting i - as 3 i that, right after the assassination, that the Mexicans put in | | a ring of guards aruund the Cuban Embassy and question everybody © 4 : going in and out. I remember that idea coming out of my . | z= § head. 3 E : '  Inknow that Sylvia Duran was arrested. She was fair game; S 7 because she was a Mexican national and the Cubans -~ she did j | a 3 | not have any Cuban diplomatic immunity. = ; . 3 I would have thought it would have been a good idea to ! : 1G | question here very closely. As to whether I said that she | Z ' should be arrested or I had anything to do with that, I do = | . : 12 : not know. i was perfectly capable of making such a suggestion. > 2 15 -Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know why Headquarters was upset | 2 & about that arrest? | : = 1s | Mr. Shaw. I have no idea. | 1é . Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know why Headquarters did not want ¥ 17 any Americans to confront her or to interview her? : - 13 | Mr. Shaw. No. : 13 | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have any reason to believe that : = 39 | Oswald may have been an agent of the KGB? | vee Mr. Shaw. I have no reason to believe it. | aos : ee ; I 23 Mr. Goldsmith. How about an agent, asset or source of i & 4 Mr. Shaw. I would-think that. that would be completely : 23 f out of the question. . | HI q a 4 a HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 71
1-71 i | Mr. Goldsmith. For purposes of the record, could you © 4 explain why you think that would be out of the question? | Mr. Shaw. Because I thihk it would have come to light | r 4 ! immediately had he had any CIA connections. | E :| Mr. Goldsmith. In what manner? rs | Mr. Shaw. Somebody would have revealed this fact. | & 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Had he been an agent of the CIA, asset or j S 3 | employee, is it possible that someone would have been able to = : 7 | cover that fact up? | : | Mr. Shaw. I do not think anyone could have covered up. S 4 z 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Why not? = i ' $ 2 | Mr. Shaw. Had he been an agent, then it would have been & 2 14 on the record somewhere. | | = 4 2 4 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Is it possible that the record could have ve i : 1g [been erased or*purged in some way? . | g a Mr. Shaw. I seriously doubt it. : ; | Mr. Goldsmith. Could you give a reason? | z a Mr. Shaw. Just my belief in the integrity of the organiza- : 19 Hon, It stands on that, and the people in it. : : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Does the Agency, to your knowledge, have | owe 1 vany safeguards to prevent records from being erased or purged? 2 pal 2 Mr. Shaw. Nowadays, of course, we have laws which say / 22 Nyou can't destroy material. I would say that the safeguards 4 jagain come back to the basic integrity of the people in the 23 jorganization. When you lose a President, you do not mess ! OF AR: i Syd a Sts a wwe ALSESSON REZORTING COMPSALY HW 450945 Docld: 32277214 Page T2
os Ai? at at ‘a Sst oy Yer ix Sey Bb aera 3 a ye ik 1-72 > \ iy around, and I think everybody would have turned over every | possible Stone to find out anything they could that would be ! 1 useful in determining the responsibility for that assassina-~ 4 | tion. | Z 7 - I know I would have. I was a Kennedy man, and I imagine | 5 : | there were a lot of us in the outfit who identified very | e 7 | closely with the President. S ‘ Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever know anybody by the name of : + | Maurice Bishop? : to Mr. Shaw. No. | : | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether David Phillips, or : : 12 | anyone else, ever used the name Maurice Bishop as an operational a 4 : . i ae = 13 alias of some kind? | = . 2 | Mr.. Shaw. I am not aware that they did, but I would | : 5 | have to answer your question no. Dave Phillips does not seem | : 2 | Like a Maurice type, somehow. — : 4 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Did Headquarters ever criticize the : 12 | Mexico City station in any way for its handling of the Oswald in | : 13 | matter prior to the assassination? | | Mr. Goldsmith. For that matter, after the assassination? | Mr. Shaw. Not that I am aware of. I must add that crititism would have been conveyed to the Chief of Station 2 re : Mr. Shaw. Not that I am aware of. © | | t | | rather than to the case officers. i ' Ww bee Mr. Goldsmith. When Oswald returned to the United states | HW 50955 Docld: 32277214 Page 73
2 “ 3 4 <2] = 5 bal 3 ae 1 a P wn 3 ~ ~ c Pa 7 ao os a ae ~ e ™ . 4 “2 3 a - 4 = 6 S o SG = ti ~~ an) n < oS, 3 = 14 z “ped, t= = = x ~ S zu. 3 > a \7 Be 13 S } wan = 19 ~ « S 28 21 Cae ast ad ANY 44 an ait a2 ; a Bocld HW 450945 Mr. Shaw. United States. ~ Mr. Shaw. ; people. | i | il | | | i i } 232277214 Page 74 | Mr. Goldsmith. j Mr. Shaw. | Mr.=Goldsmith. | | { | | | i Mr. Goldsmith. * him in some way? 1-73 | from the ‘Soviet Union, would it have»been standard operating procedure for the Adency to have interviewed him or debriefed No. I think that it would have been more | likely for the FBI to interview him. Why. is that? Because he was an American citizen in the That was the FBI's territory. Even though Oswald worked for several years -- not for several years, but for. sometime -- in a | radio factory while he was in Russia? I was not aware that. he worked ina radio The Adency has the Domestic Contacts Division. ALSERS factory, but the fact that he had been in the Soviet Union, the fact that he had been in the united States Marine Corps, would indicate to me that if he had been interviewed, he would have been interviewed by the FBI. Does not the Agency have a Domestic Contacts Division, or service, which customarily interviews { j . people who have been abroad in Communist countries? It used to be called 0/G Contacts. I never worked with those It is my understanding that what they do is routinely debrief, if the person is willing, businessmen -- in the old days, tourists -- who had visited the Soviet Union, or to en5r SLuAe T ON pees NG coMepan
id 7 Ww? 2 a a - Mt ' rr) : w 8 ~ ™ co a 7 aa OM o a = oe : * ra) ¥ a = . 1G S g me a ed Bh a : ; 7 42 % . @ =:* a. ie = = Z. ts 1 ad ts as ta a . = 1s = “iF a = (8 on = 19 ~ Ss 2 21 Jo wee 5 © : x ” 23 a aa HY S095 Bocld: | | | i i i ‘ at fl i u it tt 32277214 Page 75 1-74 debrief a man who might have other involvement inthe Soviets would not, I believe, have fallen within the purview of the 0/O Contacts Branch. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have any knowledge of the opera- tional activity of the CI/SIG Branch of the CIA? Mr. Shaw. No. I do not know what SIG means. I have never heard of CI/SIG. CI is Counterintelligence. staff. I don't know what SIG is. Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Shaw, I would like to thank you for your testimony today. I especially would like to thank you for spending all. of this time with us. I know that you have been here since approximately 3:00 o'clock or so and it is now about 7:30. You have been very patient. Customarily, whenever a witness testifies before the Committee, the witness is given’an opportunity to make a Statement for the record. This is not a hearing, but I would like to give you the same opportunity, if you would like to take advantage of it. Mr. Shaw. Well, I might take advantage of it. I had not thought about it until you mentioned it, but harkening back to what I said a little while ago, I do believe that our organization was made up of, like Bill Colby has on the cover of his book over there on the next table, of honorable men, ; | and I do not think that anyone in the organization would have ;
if ad Fae rane ps y ike, hy 1-75 | allowed any cover-up or any destruction of evidence which might } shed some light ontthe assassination of President Kennedy. a I might add a little vignette. We had what it called a | a | 4 Libra ~Pecima’. which is a book that the people signed when : Es : | they come to a funeral or something. You may have run into | S | something 1ike this in the states, when you go in and sign | : 7 in at the funeral parlor that you were there or something. S 2 | you express your regrets -- ;pecima, in Spanish, means regrets, : 3 | or sorrow. a | i = | We had a book down in the lobby of the Embassy building : i | and when I came out one day shortly after the assassination | 3 2. | somebody in the crowd yelled Spanish for Bob, and I went over e Ho a = 12 land ,it.. . was the Governor of the State of Sonora, which is | ; 14 ha big state up in northwestern Mexico. I had known him some | : 1s | years earlier. He was the son of the General who was the : ZO ; = I) outstanding military leader of the Mexican Revolution from | = 4 ; “ 17 | about 1913 to about 1920. | : a His father had been President of Mexico!.. His father was | z 9 | assassinated, having been elected to a second term. He was | 5 20 | already elected; he had not taken office. | \ i Kee I was profoundly touched by the presence of this son of | Ios : a awd a | an assassinated President in the lobby of our Embassy to, in | turn, express his sorrow to us for the assassination of our President. Ww da That does not prove anything one way or another, but it i E85 a AT S ComPant? HW 50955 Docld:32277214 Page 76 ALRERSON stor NG wees
; made a tremendous effect on me. | As I mentioned very early in our session today, I am not i | aware that there was any exultation, satisfaction, or happi-~ ness inside the Cuban Embassy over the assassination of the de ! President. And I think, and my personal belief is, that ~ q . ‘ : : : 1 | everything points to Lee Harvey Oswald having done it, and = | done it alone. a 7 | ~ | There is nothing I have ever seen or heard which would < | lead me to. accept, for one moment, any complicity on the part SF | . a | of my Agency or any other agency of the United States E | government. Z i Mr. Goldsmith. Thank you, Mr. Shaw. = 32 | : | 7 i I would like to add that as soon as the transcript of i | this deposition is available,.we will be in touch with you = i so that you can have an opportunity to review it for accuracy foal ts H . = : and again, I would like to thank you for your time and help = 16 4 a = ! today. ~ Mr. Shaw. I thank you, gentlemen. a i (Thereupon, at 7330 p.m. the Executive Session recessed. ) = 124 C = oe S20 | a4 fi . ae WW 50955 Docld: 32277214 Page 77
Ww = s ~ = ao i w Foal wt oe -~ “ . Fad 7 Oe é feat ~ = 2 fond ~ a “3 7 2 . t =~ [9 Se band oe = ty — to: 1 = 14 . : ae =. bons. = 13 = = a 4 al = = z 13 yer] a Lom = te ic ~ - . a oF « x v4 = 's = wn ~ tg ~ a a pa bhd a Saal . ; : tg wg an Wi a4 © _ ~ , 23 a a< an HW 40955 DBactld: i CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER | I, Rosemary Cc. Tascione, the officer before whom the | foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the | witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition i was duly sworn by the Notary; that the testimony of said wit- | ness was taken by myself, stenomask reporter, and thereafter i . | reduced .to typewriting under my direction; that I am neither | counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties | t the action in which this deposition was taken, and further, | that I am not. a relative or employee of any attorney or ai | | | ; counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor financially ox otherwise interested in the outcome of the action. i li frosting C- Tacrione) ii | | ~~ REPORTER it | | 33977214 Page 76