ash 19 10 11 12 \. 4g 14 15 16 17 18. 19 20 21 22 23 Qo 24 29 nave looked at intelligence as a whole. The Congress certainly ‘because of the mMaqnitude and character but also because of TOP SECRET | 10 Mr. Maxwell. uel, I think that the Appropriations Committee would probably have a good claim to say that they hasn't as a whole; Mr. Aaron. I wanted to ask a question with regard to. that one thing, that one | paragraph, whether we really shouldn' t be making some reference at this point to the Constitutional igsue about the budget. | Now I know these jare general findings and they are amplified later, but whether or not we are adequately fulfillin our Constitutional responsibility -- Senator Huddleston. Later on we quote that paragraph. Mr. Aaron. That's correct. Senator Huddleston. Well, I think that is not only. the Constitution, which we could add to that very sentence. They are of such nature and the Constitution makes such requirements. Mr. Kirbow. We should be careful lumping the magnitude and the Constitutional requirements together as if the. Constitution requires it. And the magnitude of it should be discussed also. So we should just be careful about the wording, | Mr. Aaron. We're .now into page 6, 1 think. | Senator Huddleston. Gary, do you have anything specific Senator Hart. No. Docld: 32423516 Page 13 .
ash ll L 10 11 ‘12 13 14 165 16 17 18. 19 20 21 22 23 25° is a question of how you would like to proceed, we can go back the paper and see if we' want them to remain that way and/or those. And they will go in at the appropriate place. TOP SECRET = u Mr. Aaron. The first point at. which we have, and this to look at. the various bracketed languages that are left in we can take up any further comments that people have. I only have two small comments concerning the papers which were brought to my attention in the course of the day. I. also must say that despite repeated requests to include at an appropriate place some of the recommendations that the Chairman has. made, tim gorry to say that that has not yet happened here, so we have to make appropriate provision for Mr. Kirbow. Chairman of the Subcommittee? Mr. Aaron. Chairman of the Full Committee. the question that we went over --.what he,..I:ithink,: feels stronqdly : i : - | _— about is the tenure of office of the director. if ‘Mr. Miller. ‘One: of them as I recall has to do with Mr. Kirbow. Of the CIA? '.Mr. Miller. Yes; That would just be a bracket for the " qt Full Committee. i Mr. Kirbow. What] is his suggestion? Mr. Miller. I think seven years. | i oo tenes Mr. Kirbow. Does the lame duck administration and lame . its ako . duc’ officeholders create any problem for you? Mr. Miller. Well, it's the degree to which the official Fan tie ise Tl etal sol am has Ocoee Docld: 324235516 Page 14
ash le 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? '18 19 20 22 25 24 25 Tr SECRET 12 is nolitical. Mr, Kirbow. Who would you get to fill the job for that last year in an administration? Mr. Miller. If it's a fixed tern, it really doesn't matter, does it? If he's there straddling in order to provide transition, that! s the idea. rather than’ starting with cleaning out the Director at ‘the beginning of each administration. There ‘ought to he continuity, and that would tend to depoliticize’ the office. That is his notion. Senator Huddleston. I think we hassled with that for. quite a while. It goes ina bracket and we'll just have to | see how persuasive he is. Mr. Aaron. Also in the cover section we have a sentence regarding international terrorism and linking that up with the t te oy assassination of Richard | Welch. It did not come out. as it. was supposed to, so it should be deleted. / " Mr. Inderfurth. ‘That's page 83, and I think there was also the decision to take out the reference to Welch not | moving out of his house. | | ‘Mr. Aaron. No, that's not correct. Mr diGenova. I thought we did agree to do that. a think the Senator took exception to the inference that might © have been drawn from the direct quotation that we were trying to say it wasn't our faut and this was ‘the reason sort of thing}. We were going. to paraphrase that, was where we left it. TAR erennn Docld: 32423516 Page 15
ash 13 10 11 12 14 15 16 Wy, 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 29  Docld: 32423516 Page 16 13 an wee Be aren ry Mr. Aaron. Well, I would oppose that but I will be cme AT rr guided by the Committee. Senator Huddleston, Has this been altered eince our discussion? of Mr. Aaron. Yes, there was alteration in the text that preceded it. | | : | Before, it said that the tragic death. of the station chief in Athens illustrates the problem of striking a balance between cover and operations. And what we're simply saving here is that his situation in Athens illustrates the problem of cove and I think that these further points do make that clear. On. the one hand we , have the. testimony of the chief of the cover Staff that by the ‘time we. get ‘to the station chief there isn't a qreat deal of cover left, and one illustration. | of that is the fact that he moved into a house occupied by the ‘previous station chief. There was some question as to whether he should stay. ‘in it or not and it-was generally felt he should make his “own decision about it and, you know, for all the inconvenience and difficulty that might be entailed he just. as soon stayed there. | | This is the kind of feeling that one has about it and it does illustrate the problem. The implication is not that he. was killed pecause he moved into that House. It was really jus the wav of describing thé situation which station chiefs face. | TAR ecrener y
ash 14 TGP SECRET ou > ' ‘tl 1 ||}when they’re trying to deal with questions of cover versus ° 2 questions of convenience or operation and necessity. 3 . ; _ Mr. Kirbow. I also’ have the ‘same objection on page 84 4 | where the Chairman said we didn't clearly define that a) terrorists killed the man, then we shouldn't infer that it did. 6 7 a “We, can talk about terrorism being an additional problem v4 for all cover, but not as’ it directly relates to Welch. 8 a Mr. Aaron. The sentence preceding it was modified. to 9 || make that point and the last sentence should have been deleted 10 and it was not. The quote. . 11 : Senator Huddleston. ‘Yes, I recall there was some questi n. 12 about the cuote because it seemed to tie him in both with oO ’ 13 the cover and terrorism. : boo ; 14 Mr, Maxwell. I think ‘in regard to the first quote, I 1s think we make the point in the sentence directly preceding 16 || it and there is some question’ as to whether in the cover sectio ' oe — 17 we would like to place so much emphasis, on Mr. Welch's death, 1g. || and essentially by adding the quote sav, listen, it wasn't .us,. 19 || it wasn't us, guys. He takes it on his head. 20 | Mr. Aaron. I don't see that you have to read it that 21 || way. I simoly feel it ads a certain specificity to otherwise 22 |) sort of general comments . - 23 Mr. Kirbow. we1h,! it wasn't ‘objectionable to the Chairm n vo 24 and I don't see that it! contributes anvthing more than the 25 || fact that official cover is very light by the time you get to TAM CFenerT Docld: 32493516 Page 17
gsh 15 10 il 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ys 4 25 the station chief, which you see in the first sentence. “paper in any way.. ‘quote. I think we can cut out from the word "according" to textual sentence is. an excellent summary, but I don't know. TOP SECRET 1s I wouldn't think that taking it out detracts from. the , =o r t i Mr. Aaron. ‘Whatever the Chairman wishes. Senator Huddleston. It seems ‘to me that we also talk about the fact that beth his predecessor and his name had been carried in foreign newspapers as an indication too of. a -_ . | Mr. Aaron. I tried to do that with one sentence just - " Vy - saying further, Mr. Welch occupied the. house which had been . ] ' the lack of deep cover.;, . F publicly identified as that of: the preceding station chief my A 9% _ ; | Of — a 7 | . ~which sort of sweeps up both thoughts, that both he and the previc station chief had heen identified publicly. Mr. diGenova. I] believe what that sentence does is Summarize what comes in the next paragraph which is the direct the word "house," because’ really, all that does is just reemphagsiz i | 4 the same point. - Mr. Kirbow.. I would agree with that. . Mr. diGenova. The sentence. is an excellent summary, the Mr. Kirbow. Mr. Chairman, I suggest we. delete the sentence starting with the word "according" and down through and including the word "house." Senator Huddleston. If we're going to use Mr. Welch's . TAR 2®Frene wr Docld: 32423516 Page 13
‘ash 16 10 11 ‘12 13 14 7. 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 20 TOP SECRET r name, we have to identify who he was. Mr. Kirbow. We can do that where we say station chief in the first sentence. | We could say. Richard Welch the station chief in Athens. . Io: Ms. Culbreth. Mr. Chairman, on that point I have one. question. I don't know whether there has been any official announcement by anybody. in our ‘government that Mr. Welch was. 7 in fact the station chief. : : t) I know the Presidént went and I know Mr. Colby went, but I still don't know that there's been any.official written government document that (said yes, we recognize this man. The only reason I iraise this. is just for the Senators to decide whether they want to put that in. our report. if in 1 4 fact neither the Agency) or the Executive has done that. Mr. diGenova. I) would only say this. At no time during my review of the cover paper did the Agency ever say to me that you should not say that, Richard Welch was the station chief. That was the one thing they never objected to. ‘Really. in the whole cover paper, that was the only thinc they never mentioned. That's just not-a problem. Mr. Aaron. I would like to make ‘one suggestion, if the suggestion of Mr. Kirbow is accepted, and © that is _that the sentence preceding it Pp moditted to indicate that Mr. Welch didn' t just decide to-do iit out of thin air. He decided becaus he was asked not to do it or ait was suggested that he consider To ene ee f Docld: 32423516 Page 19 , . |
gsh 17 4 no 10 11 12 14 15 16 1? 18 End 1A, b 1B 20 21 23 , 24 25 on decided to move into the house. That might be normal operating that is which. shows that, as Mr.. Isenstead testified, operation there are "two sections that we do need to look at carefully. TOP SECRET 8 =—s_ » not doing it anyway. The point of the further sentence is not just that he procedure. _ 4 Mr. diGenova. I think it does: add one dimension and > and cover work hand in Tana, and the. pbo will oftentimes overrule the chief of cover and commercial and. will sometimes back him up and sometimes] the. individual station chief is” left:-to make his own decision but it does add that dimension . 7 ‘ . . to it, which is the decisional process. Thought was aiven,| in other words, to the question of whether or not his cover would be undermined by staying there. Mr. Aaron. I'd bel happy to put it in that further. though headquarters raised questions, Mr. Welch decided to occupy the house, | | . " - Senator it I think it would be appropriate - to do that. oy -Mr. Aaron, . Let ine! | suggest in the interest of trying to get through all the material that we have this morning, that i | H One T take it is the redone section on media, particularly | ! ‘the recommendations and| the second is the paper on Department 4 of State and ambassadors | which T° think has been gone over in nine different ways by the staff, and I! m sure ‘that there ar , NN PR ee Docld:32423516 Page 20
gsh 18 10 ll 12 13 14 ‘Ls 16 ay 18 19 20 21 R2 23 N24 25 still more comments. perhaps as follows, except that by statute Congress should be ‘start it off with the Committee in a bill and it got changed the Committee has not changed its mind and it should again. ‘TOP SECRET) _ Mr. Inderfurth. ‘Defense just came as well. Mr. Aaron. The Defense one may well need more staff workl,. What I would recommend is that we turn to the section on media, unless there are major further questions. that would be on page 66. | Senator Hart. Mr. Chairman, before we move, could I. raise one interim=-a sticky question of prior notification is addressed at the bottom of page 16, recommendation. 14, and. the question is whether we should nail that admonition down notified. . AS. you know, the resolution leaves the matter vague on_ the oversight committee. Mr. Kirbow. I agree with Senator Hart, that we initially to a resolution which is not binding on the Administration and. recommend that that be enacted. Mr. diGenova. Just put the word “by. statute?" Senator Hart. That by statute Congress should. Mr. Inderfurth. | A couple of little things on that same page under recommendation 11, the last sentence ~~ the Presiden also should continue to’ certify covert action projects as provided by and we might add in there certify covert action v, . | TAD C€rerPer Docld: 32493516 | Page 21
ash 19 '# Gi 10 11 12 14 15 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 ae 24 295 Docld: 32493516 Page 220 TOP SECRET | 19 projects is important to the national security of the United States. I think that clarifies what the certification is. Just certifying you don! rt, -you don't know what that ‘means .. Mr. ‘Aaron. page 66, I think Bill Bader would like to -- Mr. Bader... I turn the Senators’ attention to page 69 and page 70. We'll go: first to the covert use of the U.S. academic community and then the second issue is the use of . the media. As you see on 69 we have given an outline of the extent of operational use of American academics. I should sav that both, for the record, that both at the appearance of representatives of FRD when they came here and Bill Nelson, the: feputy director for operations, has. subsequently submitted 4 paper which gives the Agency's . an , ‘ . ; an , position and very strongly recommends a continuation of this 1 operational. use of academics and speaks to what they consider the very important costs that would flow from any prohibition of the use of American academics. ‘I’ would note that on page 69 there has been the addition of two or three sentences at the bottom of the page which reflects the facts that were given to us by FRD when they came to that hearing whenever it was last Friday. | I'11. read those. | " Of all these activities, the CIA gives its highest priority and assigns. its: hest case officers to the recruitment “4
wh fo TOP SECRET 20 ~ 1 of foreign students. More than: one half of CIA's case officers | 2° working within the U.S., are assigned to this task. Over 60 5 percent of CIA recruitments within the U.S. last year were 4 || foreign students. | 5 | This'is directly from the transcript. 6 : Mr. Miller. But is it clear? 7. Mr. Kirbow. This manuscript has not. gone for saniti- 8 zation? : 9 Me. Bader. ‘No. “10 Mr. Miller. Would it clear, then? What is your guess? 11 || My quess is -no. | | 12 ; Mr. Bader. Well, it should be said. at this point that. 13 in the critique that came back from the: Agency on the entire 14 || laraer Katzenbach paper. the Agency has taken the position that 15 any mention of numbers or the fact that the Central Intelligenc 16 Agency uses academics for operational purposes, they 've put 17 || in the category of sources and, methods, and there should be 18 | no public reference to it. | 19 - . Senator Huddleston. Well, we'll have to face that 20 problem in the Pull Committee, | ert Mr. Kirbow. That's the testimony of the witness who 22 || was before the Committee just last week when he was asked that 93 specific question, that what harm would accrue if someone | \ 24 published the members ole institutions or kind of the scope of 25 this whole program? 7 TAR CreRerT DoclTd: 32425516 Page 23
an | T@P SECRET oa ~ 1 He expressed serious reservations at that time. 2 Mr... Bader. That's a problem we have to face up to. 5 . Now'on page 70 there are two paragraphs that are 4 bracketed there which I turn, the Senator's attention to, and 5 these are findings, these are obviously alternatives. The 6 || first finding ts that the Committee holds to the view that 7 || the American academics provide invaluable and necessary — 8 . assistance in the initial recruiting stage of foreign studénts. i) . These foreign students produce important and valuable 10 |. intelligence when returned to their countries. The role of 11 cooperating academics is limited to passive observation and 12 | therefore it does not undermine the ideals and integrity of 2 “13 American universities. 14 ' The other side of that is the following: The Committee 15 || holds to the view that American academics should not be 16 drawn into clandestine ~» (which is undérlinea -- operations 7 such as recruiting of agents among foreign students, writing 1s. propaganda or serving as intelligence collectors overseas. 19 Such activities undermine public confidence that those who 20. train our young are upholding the ideals of American universiti Ss. 21 | _ Now from that and these findings, flow these recommendati is . 22. |) and there is a glitch in the recommendations. 43, above 43 93 should be marked options, and these options, the paragraphs yo 24 | that follow are in fact iontions rather than individual recommenda-— | 25° tions. . oO TAR 2 me Docld: 32423516 Page 24
qsh 22 LO. il -l2 res 13 14 Lo 16 1”? (18 19 20 el 2 23 t ‘ 4 29 a | - while disturbed at the present CIA practice, and the rest of but towards the end com | |-academics for operational purposes. B, while disturbed at the ‘present CIA practice of) using academics, this Committee does ‘prohibition as an intrusion on the privacy and integrity of Lb el SECRET | 22 In other words, you could have option 43, first. paragraph} A, second paragraph B. That is the sentence that starts, the paragraphs, 44 would be C,.D, and it follows on. I would call the Senators' attention to these options. Let me say that there are some of them that you could endorse more than one. ; Senator Huddleston. Excuse me. .Is each sentence an option? © | Mr. Bader. Each paragraph. ! Mr. Inderfurth. But they are not exclusive. In other words, some of them canjbe chosen. Some of them are exclusive. | Senator Hart. It's a shmorgasbord: Mr. Bader. So the first option A is this Committee has ‘ studied this issue andreconmends that the CIA continue to use not recommend a prohibition. The Committee views such a American academic community. The third option is the Committee recommends that the CIA amend its ¢ internal jlirective to. include a requirement that |}. both the individual academic and the president of the universit i or college be knowledgeable of the clandestine relationship of Docld: 32423516 Page 25 ‘ |
a 2 ash 23 Te VP SECRET 23 I ~ 1 the CIA. | | 2 This was discussed at the meeting the other day and rT 5 |} thought it was sensible) to have it included as an option. 4° D, the Committee! recommends. that the CIA’ amend its ine 5 ternal directives to include a prohibition against the CIA 6 entering into a paid retationshie with American. academics © for- 7 operations] purposes. - Obviously, Cc and D could work together. 8 R. the Committee! reconmends that the CIA amend its ze) internal directives to include a prohibition on the.use of 10 || members of the American academic community for operational 11 purposes. | | 12 and then go to Fl, By statute this Committee recommends NN 13. the use of academics for operational purposes be prohibited, 14 || So vou move right through this list and I think it- gives you 15 the full range, and the. the last one is G, this Committee le recommends ‘the Agency be) prohibited, vhether it's by statute,” ‘fr m .17 recruiting foreign students in the U.S. 18 _Senator tuddiestiin. I think we grappled with this “19 || pretty thoroughly and we came to about the situation which you 20 outlined. We discussed’ the various options without being able 21 to focus in-on one as being our recommendation. 22 | rT suggest. that the Subcommittee members | thoroughly 23 review ‘this whole sect and try, to get in our own mind what \ 94 we think we would like to recommend or would like to speak for 25 when we cet to the ru1i|connittes and. just leave this as a matt TA Ream ne DocId: 32423516 Page 26
qsh 24 | : TOR SicK RET | 24 : pa? for the Full Committee to resolve. 2 I don't think we can make much more progress today 5 || probably. I think it's'a good outlay here of the possible 4 || alternatives that we have and I think there's no question that 5 | it's an area where we get -- 6 | Ms. Culbreth-. Could I suggest that the document that " Mr. Bader got from the Agency, speaking to this, be made 8 available to the Senators for consideration in coming to a 9 decision on this point?! 10 | Mr. Miller. Which document? ll . - Ms. Culbreth. “the two-page thing that you're just — —* «1g |} talking about. a | a | 13 a Mr. Bader. ohis is a paper which I am remiss. in not 414 bringing to the meeting 'this morning. It's a two page document . i. 15 || that Mr. Nelson prepared stating -- I'll call over and get that 16 || by the end of this meeting. | 17 _ Mr. ‘Kirbow. mid one is so controversial too, that I -1g || think that remarks made |by the witnesses the other. day to you 19 and. Senator Mathias on several of these pros and cons would 4 20 || be very. helpful. | | 21 — .It has been trangcribed and should be made available. 22 One other thing, /it's just a point here and I make it | 23 before the Committee, is that early ‘on when we were discussing ~“ . 24 || the weight that should ve given to this program, the difference. 25 “was made between the staff, between. Mr. Bader and the recommend ti ae Docld: 32423516 Page 27