HW 53716 DoclId: 327404701 Page 34 e ta What precedes? There is a meeting of this bureau immediately after the Komsomol meeting, a meeting of this bureau. What does this bureau do? This bureau elects the Secretary. Oh, my God! Well, what do you want? ((Pause)) This still is not all; there is something else. What is the Secretary supposed to know? I want to find this out and know exactly; if you tell me, then perhaps I will believe that you were a Secretary. If you do not tell me, then you were not, just between us. Why "between us''? Even I, for example... it was very, very interesting ~- and sad --= for me, of course, to hear you say that, at that time ((one could remain in the Komsomol)) up to 27 years of age.... Up to 27 years of age; absolutely. Now ((it is)) up to 27 years of age; the Regulations have been amended «= then, it was up to 26, and now, it is up to 27. ((XG; A and B speak at the same time) ) I was up to 27 years of age. If you were a Secretary, you must know. In accordance with the Regulations, I was.in the Komsomol up to 27 years of age.
HW 53716 - 32 — Do you remember the number of your Komsomol identification? No, Not one digit? The first was 19, and then... 19 and then... well, a 6~digit number. Well, I do not insist that you remember this number, although you know that a Komsomol member has to know his number just as a soldier knows his rifle number. Well, we will assume that this matter took place long ago. I do not insist that you know the number, although this number is repeatedly asked for by the Secretary of the Komsomol organization. I do not remember; I do not remember the number of my Party identificatic and you ask me about the Komsomol number, when I left in 1954, If you do not remember your Party card number, then we will return again to this, and I will pose a great question of whether or not you were a Party member. That is another question. I simply told you as an example that I do not even recall my Party ecard number. And I say that if you do not even remember the number of your Party card, I then raise the great question of whether you were in the Party at all, or not, You see what your approach is? Because there can be no other. How can I approach this question otherwise -- a man is elected Secretary, and he does not know how he assumes his duties?’ DoclId: 327404701 Page 35
HW 53716 B. o - 33 -. e I told you how! I told you how! The most simple and common procedures. At the beginning, you told me it was simply a Komsomol organization, but then it was a bureau. But there was only one Komsomol organization in the Second Directorate; how can you not understand? If you were the Secretary, you must Know that there is a raykom that there is a committee, that there is a bureau, that there is a primary Komsomol organization, and there is a lower Komsomol organization... It is the only one in the Second Chief Directorate. Well, what was yours? Was it a raykom, a committee, or a primary? The primary Komsomol organization of the Second Chief Directorate, and. there was no other. very well, it was a primary organization. Further, you told me that a bureau of three people was elected, The bureau got together. | But how did the bureau elect you as Secretary? You told me that at a meeting they elected you a Secretary and two members of the bureau. That is not the way it is done. In no way. If you were the Secretary, then you must know. Yes, precisely. I have told you, keeping in mind, the small size of the organization, the Komsomol organization. Now, keeping in mind.... DoclId: 327404701 Page 36 .
HW 53716 sucpye e “y- @ Let us stop here for a minute. Do you want to discuss the question, that in the Second Chief Directorate, there were 15, 13, or 16 members or.... No, no, not in any case. Why so? Well, let us have a number -— you told me that there were approximately 15 members. | I willproceed from this -- that there were 15 members. You told me that they elected you Secretary at the Komsomol meeting along with two other members of the bureau. That is not the way it is done. If you were the Secretary, you must know and tell me the way it is done and how it happened. Even if this Komsomol organization never even worked, as often happened. Do you want me to give the formalities? They formalized it, they formalized it. A representative of the Komsomol Committee was there; the bureau was formalized; it was formalized on a piece of paper that a bureau had elected ((B's surname)) as Secretary of the Party organizatm. Then why did you say that you were elected at a meeting of the Komsomol organization to be the Secretary, but then you thought about it and said that two more members were elected to the bureau at the same meeting. No, at the bureau ((meeting)) how else? Then, you were elected Secretary at a meeting of the bureau’ ((Pause)) Yes; at a formal bureau meeting. Formal or not; this is the protocol, written down, and so forth. SECRET DoclId: 327404701 Page 37