180-10110-10028 SE eennenenenenenenenenennneneneneneneveearr eset errr errr EERE rr a RSSSnhnnnnnennss ier rrrr ee re P ee er occ v9.4 HY 4S0954 AGENCY : RECORD NUMBER : RECORD SERIES : AGENCY FILE NUMBER : ORIGINATOR : FROM: TO: TITLE: DATE: PAGES: SUBJECTS : _ CIA, METHODOLOGY DOCUMENT TYPE : CLASSIFICATION : RESTRICTIONS : CURRENT STATUS : DATE OF LAST REVIEW : OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : Doctld: 32263433 JFK Assassination System Date: 10/19/20 Identification Form Agency Information HSCA 180-101 10-10028 SECURITY CLASSIFIED TESTIMONY .. 014739 Document Information HSCA [Restricted] 11/20/1978 86 [Restricted] [Restricted] ; OSWALD, LEE, POST-RUSSIAN PERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO MEXICO TRANSCRIPT Declassified 1A; 1B Redact 02/01/2003 Notes, two duplicates included. Continues into next folder.Box 9. Page i
m SHORT/edm > 2 Washington, O. C. Monday, November 20, 1978 @. Deposition of ANN GOODPASTURE called for examination by counsel for tne Subcommittee on the + Assassination of John-F.- Kennedy, pursuant to notice, in the 202% (202) $5"-2945 . wo oN oO oO PF offices of the Select Committee on Assassinations, House } Annex No. 2, Second and 9 Streets, S.N., Washington, D.C., bw © beginning at ten o'clock a.m., before Annabelle Snort, a i fe SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATICNS | i2: Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia, when were | 13 | present on behalf of the respective parties: 14) For the Subcommittee: Michael Goldsmith, Attorney Oo Edwin Juan Lopez Soto, Researcher HEPORTERS BUEEDTNG, UVASHENGTON, O.c, Dan Hardway, Researcher Su, _ 300 PTH STRAET, ALSERSSM SSFORTING COMPANY. ING. HW 50955 DBoclda: 32263433 Page 2
House of Representatives 1p 9 Select Committee on Assassinations Washington, D.C. Subcommittee on the Assassination 3 of John F. Kennedy ‘November 20, 1978 4 | | Page 2 og Deposition of Ann Goodpasture 2 cars| . REPORTERS QUTLDING, UASHTHGTON, “D. C. a. tl, SLSERSON BERCRTING CIMPAN'Y. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 3
ae Number 4? — Gc 2 Mr. Goldsmith: Would you swear the witness. 3 Whereupon, 4 ANN GOODPASTURE 2 5: was. called For examination by counsel for the Subcommittee. and, : 6) having been first duly sworn by the Notary Public, was ex- = 7 amined and testified as follows: g Mr. Goldsmith: Miss Goodpasture, I am going to state for 5 9 the record that this is continuation of a hearing that was cone 10. ducted on April 13, 1978. We are taking testimony today in the z 11 4 form of a deposition instead of at a formal Congressional = 12 dhearing. | FA = 13, My name is Michael Goldsmith and pursuant to the House | 7 2 14 | Resolution 222, I am authorized to take your statement under . & 2 15 | oath today. = 16 Before 1 take your statement concerning the various F 7. questions the committee has of you, let me take care of some | , 18 procedural matters. | | E 19) Are you hear voluntarily today and without a subpoena? | 20° Miss Goodpasture: Yes. . | oo | | : 21 Mr. Goldsmith: Have you received-a copy of the Com- | =. 99.4 mittee Rules and supporting resolutions? | EEE 23 mss Soodpas ture: Yes. | VR 24 Mr. Goldsmith: Have you had a chance to read Rule . . i | | | { HW 50955 Doclda: 32263433 Page 4
WW 50955 Docld: 32263433 Mr. Goldsmith: Page 5) ra 1 Miss Goodpasture: Let ine check it. I looked over this isi 2 }quickly. | 3 Yes. 4 Mr. Goldsmith: Do you understand Rule Number 4? z 5 | Miss Goodpasture: I think so. 5 : 6. Mr. Goldsmith: Do you understand that you have a right S 7 ito counsel? z (8. Miss Goodpasture: Yes. | . ; 9 | Mr. Goldsmith: Do you waive that right today? a 10 Miss Goodpasture: I don't think so. - é 11! Mr. Goldsmith: By waiving that right, I mean, do you giv: = 12 yup your right to have a counsel present at this hearing today?! : 13 | Miss Goodpasture: Yes. nn F 14 Mr. Golasmith: So you don't want an attorney here today, = 15 |do you? | : 16] Miss Goodpasture: I do not have an attorney. = 17 Mr. GoTdsmith: The question is: Do you want an attorney = 18: here today? & 19 Miss Goodpasture: No. 3 20 Mr. Goldsmith: Fine. = 21 | If at any point you should want an attorney present, if | * 22 you would just tell us that and we would stop the deposition. | ASE 2B] d0 you understand that? | | A ae vo 24 Miss Goodpasture: Yes. Now, under the Committee Rules you have ALOERSSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, |
a right to receive a copy of the statement that you give us at a deposition. I am going to ask you to give up that right (e8) to receive a copy of your statement and let me explain to you why. If you were appearing before the Committee at Executive Cf 4Session as you did in April, the Committee Rules do not pro- vide for you to receive actually in your possession the trans- qcript from the hearings. As a matter of convenience to you Jand also because of the Committee's relationship with the © oo ood .o) agency, we are taking this statement in the form of a depo- | -Jsition. The agency has requested us to ask its present and former {employees to give up the right that they have under the Com- {was classified information in the transcript, and for you. to jhave the transcript in your personal possession would be i contrary to security interests. | “Now, I want to make it very clear though that even | though we are asking you to give up your right to receive a | copy of the transcript, you are not giving up your right to dget access to the transcript. In other words, you have the We are simply asking you-to give up your right: to receive a i 390 77H STREET, S20. GEPORTERS GSULLDING, MASHINGTON, 0.0. 20024 (202) 554-2345 trv), K re $ ‘Jcopy of it. Do you understand that? rhe a ~ Miss Goodpasture: Yes. May I ask you.something? } ! jright to read it and we can arrange For that at any time. | I | 1 HW 50955 DocId:32263433 Page 6
1 Mr. Goldsmith: Certainly. > 2 Miss Goodpasture: Can the agency receive a copy of the 3itranscript, the Inspector General's Office, so that they “4 would know in case I make a statement which is not true based = 5jon faulty memory. If there is no objection to the Committee, s 641 would like For some responsible person in the agency to x 7 Know what my testimony is so that they could check to see z 8 jiwhether my memory is faulty. 7 5 9 Mr. Goldsmith: I understand. 10 | Miss Goodpasture: But T don't know... I just wanted to Z ll {raise that. question. E 12 Mr. Goldsmith: The Committee Rules. do not provide for | = 13. the witness' testimony to be made available to a third per- | ot - = 14 son such as the agency. The agency, if it is interested in | * ae = ‘15 lreceiving a copy of your testimony, would ask the Committee : - : 16 and the Committee would then take a vote on whether or not | 5 17 {your testimony should be released. — = is. Now, by you. indicating on tne record that you prefer For | 5 19 the agency to have access to the material, the benefactor would 5 20 | have an effect on the Committee's vote. | - 21 | I should also add that if the Committee ultimately de- . 22 pends to some extent upon your testimony and uses that testi- KE 23 mony to make a Finding of fact, we would as a matter of V& 24] routine tell the agency in advance and if the agency has a 25 jproblem with that, they can get back to us. A 6 m i) u o ro u iM oO va v4 ra A] 7 a * 4 oO ; z u & Zz ¢ Z 2 HW 50955 Docld:3277963433 Page T
1 Miss Goodpasture: | I am just concerned that some of my © 2 jtestimony may be in conflict with records. 3 Mr. Goldsmith: I understand. 4 Miss Goodpasture: Through faulty memory. = 5 : _ Mr. Goldsmith: “In any event, do you give up your right 3 g ito receive a copy of the transcript? 3 7 | Miss Goodpasture: I don't need a copy. | ~ 3 | Mr. Goldsmith: And you understand that you have the S g iright to have access to it. S 10 | Miss Goodpasture: Yes. z We Mr. Goldsmith: Good. : 12: I am also going to state for the record that the res & 13 [porter is now being requested to provide a certification of 7 : 14 {the transcript certifying it to be an ‘accurate and true sd 2. 1g {transcription of the record that we make here today. = 16 Finally, have you had a chance to review the letter 5 17 [dated 23 March 1978 from Acting Director Frank C. Carlucci = “1g {to the Chairman of this Committee? = 19 | Miss Goodpasture: Yes. = 20 | Mr. Goldsmith: Do you understand that letter? E 21; Miss Goodpasture: Yes. ¢ a, . 22 Mr. Goldsmith: That is the same letter that you were KER 73 |shown in April, is that correct? | ae ‘Miss Goodpasture: I thought the one I saw in April was A vA. PO ae signed by Turner. | i) an HW 50955 Docld:32763433 Page 6 See re ea a a ne nen A nt ete tent tener een reentrant
Miss Goodpasture: The same one. Mr. Goldsmith: In any event, do you understand that this }etter authorizes you to testify fully and truthfully before this Committee to matters relevant to the Committee's mandate? Miss Goodpasture: Within the provisions of this House Resolution 222. Mr. Goldsmith: Yes. Anything that is relevant to the 20024 €202) S55u-2345 Oo Oo N Oo j}Committee's mandate you would be required to testify about Miss Goodpasture: Yes. ltruthfully and accurately. Do you understand that? | H di E = 12: Mr. Goldsmith: Let me indicate for the record that this “ 13d corresponds with JFK Exhibit Number 94 that was used at the | «3 i @ S 14 Jhearing of April 13, 1976. = Fine. | x . & EXAMINATION 2 | Fs By Mr. Goldsmith: = Q Miss Goodpasture, who was the Chief of Station in = 19] Mexico City in 1963? | a A _ Winston M. Scott. © - - Q . Did you have any special working relationship with Mr c , . Scott while you were stationed in Mexico City? CSS A Yes. eS Q In what way was your relationship a special work- ing relationship? ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32963433 Page 93
1 . ‘> 2 some projects that Mr. Scott had the major decisions on and 34one of those projects was the liaison operations, the one “4 that is of interest in this investigation. 5 Q Which liaison project are you referring to? 6. A The telephone tapping operation. 73 Q Did people in the Mexico City station and in head- }quarters, especially those in Mexico City, consider you to. 20024 (202) 554-2445 ibe Win Scott's right-hand person?: A Well, I was responsible for the day-to-day handling =} A Well, now I cannot really answer that and I don't : | ithink that. there would have been any reason for anyone to have considered me as nis deputy,.which would be the right-hand Iperson because he had a deputy then. I had been in Mexico “14 } longer than anyone else in the station except Mr. Scott and lfor that reason, a lot of the people came to me and asked me lquestions about things that had happened rather than going REPORTERS QUELDING, WASITHCTON, 0. €. 4to the files and looking up the answer. I don't know Ss... T how they looked upon my job there. I saw a memorandum in the files written by Mr. Shaw i Z jbeen down there for a long time," but I never had that posi- ° tion. OSE Q Now, as you know, Miss Goodpasture, the Committee's: 22 et vy investigation has focused in Mexico City in many ways “and in particular on the operations and workings of the Mexico City } | | | } | | hin which he. referred to me as "Win Scott's secretary who has HW 50955 Doold:322963433 Page 10
2024 (202) S54-2945 REPORTERS QUELDING, WASHTHCTON, B.C. Ss... 290 7TH STREET, . pai aad HW 50955 pt wo. Oo ~~ nH mn & w& Po — - a io nm & iW fF —-& — ood ed Oo oO oS }think he had a PhD. in history. He had extensive government io) nv | that I was there and his relationship. with all of them was ident operations. Outside of Panama, I think it may have been station. Let me ask you this: What was Mr. Scott's reputation for professional competence, integrity and honesty? A Well, reputation. To me, I felt that he was honest. IT had no reason to ever believe that he was dishonest. I | service before he was sent there. He was assigned by the i Director, Mr. Dulles, at the time, over a number of people who i had been in Latin America in posts that they thought would 1 leave that Chief of Station assignment, so there was no reason for me to ever doubt that he was highly qualified, in amy opinion. Now, I cannot speak. for how other people felt about him. jyou find him to be a very competent and honest man? i | -Q >. In your personal working relationship with him, cid | A. Yes. The ambassador called on him almost every | | day. I think we went through five ambassadors during the time ithe same. Q In 1963, was the Mexico City station the largest A I think Panama’ may have been the largest in size | | j station in Latin America? oO | . | i} | jbut I believe Mexico City had the largest number of indepen- the largest station but Panama had the most people. | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Doclda: 32363433 Page ii
station? _A I think so. 1 don't know how headquarters per- sonnel considered it but in my opinion, it was. mm ff a ff. 10 Q And it was considered to be a very important Q When did Mr. Scott retire, approximately? | A IT came home in 1968 and I think that he retired in |} June, 1969, | | | | Q Do you know why he retired? 20024 (202) S54-2345— ite) 0a | DH A It was my understanding that he retired because he Jhad been asked to stay in Mexico until December, 1970. He had lasked me to stay in’ Mexico until December, 1970 because I had ibeen there for a long period of time and. it was easier to keep isomeone there than it was to break in a new person. At that |time, the President was Diaz Ordaz and his term expired jin December, 1970. I wanted to return to the States because _ : | | | | | | amy parents were both not well and I had been outside the #. REPORTERS BUTLDING , WASHTHGTON, D.C, jUnited States for the better part of some 28 years, and | \ fe) {wanted to be near them in their very old age. I also wanted to take advantage of early retirement at fage 50 because I wanted to do something else with my life. Mr. Scott let me come back and he came to the States 2AG FTH STREET, 5S later. I came home at the end of 1968. He came to the States ilater on consultation or something and he had decided to re-. tire because he received an administrative message saying that he was age 60 and he was eligible; that was mandatory | | : ALOERSON RESOCRTING COMPANY, ING BW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page i2
retirement age, and he would have to have a special authori-. — zation to remain longer. So, he decided to quit because he felt he had already received that authorization and left in a tiff. Q So, how would you describe his position towards the agency when he left? A Well, at the time that he left, I think he felt {that he wanted to stay on in Mexico, that he was on good re- 2002% (202) 454-2405 Oo oN A oO F&F WwW DY igiven a medal and he came up to receive that. The agency Q After his retirement, Mr. Scott stayed in Mexico jlations as far as I know with the Director because he was J -e 10. z “dz dalso, I think, was considering using him in an undercover : 12 {capacity outside. = 13 Q — So although he was initially annoyed by having re= | 2 14 |ceived this administrative notice, by the time he left the | : oe = 15 |agency, he was favorably disposed towards it; is that correct? - = 16 A - I think -so. I think he just decided, well, he would] = 17 |90 ahead and retire while the present administration in | = 1g [Mexico was still there and they could help him with his inm- | 5 19 |migration papers, which took months to get under a new ad- | 20 ministration, and it would be easier for him to get settled | E 91 din and if there was any guestion in Washington about whether | . 22 they wanted him to stay or whether they did not, it really _ | aay 23 [didn't matter. I don't know but that is my feeling about ae 24 jwhat happened. | | i | HW50955 DocId:32263433 Page 13
(202) $$%-2345 20024 REPORTERS GUTLDENG, WASHTHGTON, 0. C. S.u. 300. 7TH STRERT, a Oo Oo NN OM oO fF WwW BD City; is that true? A Yes. Q Did Mr. Scott ever write any personal history describing his life as an intelligence officer? A He never showed me anything. He showed me writings that he had done of the Soviet intelligence operations that - was published in Readers’ Digest but he never went over any history with me about himself. 0 So, you don't know whether or not he wrote a per-' sonal history describing his life as an intelligence officer? A No. Q He never discussed any such work with you? A He never discussed it with me. | Q: - I am going to’ ask you to read at this time CIA Number 4008 through 4916 and for the record I will indicate that the agency has made available to the Committee various materials which the agency has assigned numbers to for security purposes and we are using the agency's security numbers to identify the materials that we are using here | today. So, I am going to ask you to read at this time CIA Number 4008 to 4016. A Yes, I Saw this draft when 1 was back here when I was working. Q “What year? SLSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 40955 Docld: 32263433 Page i4
1 A In April, 1977 but this was never discussed with me. i> 24 Mr. Scott had no knowledge of this if he wrote it. 3 Q Let me identify this for the record. It is marked '4 4 Folder Number 1, Chapter 24 from draft manuscript of "The = 5} Foul Foe," the book which purports to be a book of the writer's é. 6 jy career in intelligence. The writer is Ian Maxwell, believed 3 74 to be the pen name of Mr. Win Scott. z 8 Now, you testified that Mr. Scott was a competent = 9 | individual and an honest man. Would you comment upon the 2 10 | accuracy of the contents of this manuscript? 2 114 A Well, to me it appears that he was writing this for = 12 | sales appeal and as far as I could tell, it does conflict | a 13 | with the records. I don't know, but I think that this may_ | ie =. 14 | have been several years after he stopped working or certainty | a 15 | a long time after the assassination occurred or the investi- E 16. gation occurred and maybe nis memory was faulty; I don't Know, : 17 but I think it conflicts with what we have. | ‘ (18 Q What sections of the Manuscript conflict witn the | a 19° record? Let's go through it. | | & 20° A Well, it leads one to believe that we nad photo- | = 21.} graphs here. He Says that he Js known to have visited both | a 22 the Soviet Embassy and the Cuban Consulate. Well, we con- | FE 23 | cluded from the conversations that. he actually went to this ae — Soviet Embassy but I didn't see any actual proof that ne was in the Soviet Embassy from the records. Antennae em At cement eben 4 S&_GERSON BEFORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 . DocId:32263433 Page 15
14 1 Now, one telephone call was made, as I remember, ia 2 From the Cuban Embassy but I don't think he made a telephone -34call to the Soviet Embassy. iI may be wrong but I don't think “4}he did. That is one instance. | Z 5S Q What proof did you have that he went to the Cuban S SJembassy or Consulate? | s 7, A 7 He made a call from inside the Cuban Embassy and we zZ 8; picked it up on the telephone tap line from the Cuban Em- ar bassy. I should clarify that by saying a person whose voice 2 10 | was considered to be the same by the transcriber made the 11 call and the conversation in that call was in continuity with 5 12 a previous conversation in which he identified himself. | : 13 Here is another place that I don't think can be | « z 14 checked out with the records. "Persons watching these | 3 15. embassies photographed Oswald as he entered each one and. E 16 clocked the time that he spent on each vitis." | 2 17. As far as my mrimory goes, we never photographed 3 r 18) Oswald or identified a person as Oswald entering or leaving g 19 either place. I. said we--the people--that I didn't see any | z 20 |} information to that effect. | Fa Q -Are there any other sections of that manuscript tha aE A There may be. You have to take it sentence by ae 24 sentence to check with the record, which I have done, but asda point those. two things out. a you think are. inaccurate? oo , _ ™ | | | | | | | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 16
out any major inaccuracies in the manuscript. A May I make a check mark on the side of this? > WwW Ph - Q Well, why don't you read through it again and | Q Certainly. = 54. A Paragraph 2 on the first page. é 6. Q That. is 4009. = oe ae A As my memory recalls it, when he made his First z 8 jcontact with the Soviet Embassy he did not say anything. about = 9. Crimea. | . 10-. On page 2 at the end of paragraph 1. z 11: Q This is page 4010. Use these numbers here. a 12 A Excuse me. 4010, paragraph 1.. | | = 13 I am inclined to go along with the Warren Commission = 14. report on. that because I believe. that when we went back over @ = 18 | the records after the assassination, we found the Cuban. | = 16 Embassy contact but T am not sure about that. ‘i F 17. | .Q Excuse me. So, the section here where it states: | = 18 "This contact became important after the Warren Commission | g is report on the assassination of President Kennedy | was published 5 20: For on page 777 of that report the erroneous statement was | 5 21 {made that it was not known that Oswals has visited the Cuban | . ar’ Embassy until after the assassination! ‘Every piece of infor-— GEE, 2 [mation concerning Lee Harvey Oswald was 48 reported immediately TS oa dafter it was received to U.S. Ambassador Thomas Mann," et dcetera. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433. Page 17 4 |
1 | the assassination. That period after the assassination we © 2 went over those records so many times and made so many trans- 3] lations that it is hard to distinguish between the time after 4 that defector cable was received and the assassination in- Z 5! vestigation, but after the defector cable was received we did 2 6. try to get all the information together. | 2 7) Q Let me show you at this time CIA Document 243, | g jwhich is a copy of an article dated 21 October 1964 and g 9) specifically there isa paragraph in there that reads: ; 10. "The investigators also are trying to determine why z HL: the CIA and its pre-assassination report to the State Depart- : 2 ment on Oswald's trip to Mexico City gave details only of the = 13 defector's visit to the Russian Embassy and not the Cuban | : 14! Embassy. The CIA did not report the latter visit until after @ = 1 Kennedy's assassination in Dallas." | | = 16 Please read that paragraph to yourself that I just, 5 7 read. | = 18. A Yes. | H 19 Q Is that your handwriting in the margin on the right = 20° | A. Yes. a - | & 91 | Q What does that say? FB op . A "The call from the Cuban Embassy was unidentified wee 234 until headquarters sent traces on Oswald and the voices. com- B23? 94 | pared by Fineglass." He was a transcriber. - 235 - That is what I said, I .thought, but I could not HW 50955 DocId: 32263433 Page 16
18 remember whether it was after we got the cable from head- ts = 2 quarters that we learned about. the Cuban Embassy or whether 3} it was after the assassination. 44 Q So now it appears that shortly after you received = 5 jthe cable from headquarters, the connection was made between : 6 | 0swald and the Cuban Embassy? | a. 7 A I don't know whether someone took those transcripts 7 -8jto the transcriber and asked him if it was the same person or 5 9 if he may have had copies of that tape remaining at that time 2 10. but you would have to ask him about that. | z 11 Q In any event, the connectionwas made between Oswald g = 12 § and Oswald's visits to the Cuban Embassy before the assassina-~| eG 14 A Yess. according to this it was. 3 15 Q Fine. Please continue. E 16 A ‘Io could not remember whether it. was after tne cable | 5 17 lor after the assassination. ; =i Q And now it appears that it was before the eee # 19 | tion. | b 20° A Before the assassination. - 21 | Q. Please continue with the manuscript. 7 99 A Page 4014, paragraph 2, I don't recall that Oswald mec 23 [spelled out his name slowly and carefully for the Soviets in FE oa lthe telephone transcript. Maybe Toam wrong but I don't think | 25 4that was in there. | ; po | ALSGERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC, HW 50955 DBocld:32263433 Page 19
20024 (202) S5H-2305 . REPORTERS RUTLDING, WASHINGTON, B.C. So 300 7TH STREET, 22. . re’ 24 25 > G3 nm at oO OM NE OH ah: 12 14 IT that cable. You may recall that we have shown it to you 18 | “ard notation | was made prior to the assassination and we have Scott aware apparently that Oswald's middle name was not Q Fine. Please continue. A That also has the Crimea in there. I think he may have gotten that Crimea from another transcript, another call that was made by a transportation dagency asking for requirements for a visa to Crimea that was 70n the transcripts in between these calls, but we determined it was not connected with Oswald. Page 4015, paragraph 2, persons. To my knowledge i there were no persons.who saw Oswald enter and leave each em- bassy and clock the time he spent there. Those are all the comments that I can make. Q Thank you. Let me show you CIA Number 183, which is the head-~ \ station--1 am sorry, this is the Mexico City station copy of } | { | quarters copy of the cable that was sent to the Mexico City. ir before. This is the one that makes reference to Oswald as Lea Henry Oswald and Win Scott apparently ‘drew an arrow and “wrote | down (STC s underlined, pointing to the ‘middle name ‘Henry.' Now, the Committee nas received testimony that this here on the one hand a manuscript where Scott says that Oswald spelled his name slowly and clearly, and we have here Henry. Does that suggest to you that perhaps there. was a ALSERSON RESORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263433 ‘Page 20
20 — transcript where Oswald did spell his name slowly and clearly? | A Well, I don't think 50 because I saw those trans- cripts before Mr. Scott did. The way the paper-work ran was that those transcripts were given to the outside contact who brought them to me. I looked at them and in case of someone | who was speaking in Russian or a language that the monitors | could not transcribe at the listening post, that one copy jof that transcript and the tape went immediately to the person wo oO uN Hn Oo & WwW 202% (202) S5H-2305 jhandling the other transcriber. In the case of the Soviets it would have been Mr. fa: oO | }Manell. Sometimes the outside person could take that tape to Land fsa }the transcriber but I don't recall any instance when Mr. Scott "@ pb | | \saw the transcript before I did and I don't think that he — | | i spelled his name slowly and carefully. That is not the way oy > 1] remember it. §, REPORTERS BUTLDING, UASHTMCTON, B.C, 15 6. Q So, in summary, the sections of this manuscript that 7 you have referred to as being in conflict or--let me see if 1) in 1g can clarify this. | | f 19. ‘Are you saying that they are inaccurate because of = 20 | your memory or are you saying that they are inaccurate be- E 9 | cause they conflict with the record?” | es re Well, I think both. | SEE 23 Qo “Okay. | Paya . VR 24 A Part of the things that I worked on when I came up ihere in February, 1977 I did not remember until I saw the | files. That newspaper clipping 1 didn't remember at all + -tetrenearecettemtteni mann ttt ate pega th renter ntneenote eet msn ieee cere _ALSERSON BESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 21
2] until I saw it at the hearing. 1 @ ° 2 Q And essentially you are indicating that this manu- 3jscript prepared by Mr. Scott is exaggerated? 4 A In my opinion, it is. The only thing that we could = 5 {compare it with is the record of events. : 6 Q Why would Mr. Scott have any reason to exaggerate 3 7 these things? - 3 A a Pardon me? - 2 9: Q Why would Mr. Scott have any reason to exaggerate 3 10° these matters? | | ML A He had written books for sale and I think that he e 12 | probably felt that it would have more sales appeal. That is . 13 my guess. He had published.a couple of books. I don't know @ 14 how many books. he published but I received a flyer of two 2 1s books that he had published and I didn't bother to read E 16 | then. 7 : 2 - 2 YW! Q So, in essence, then Mr. Scott, whom you have ¥ 18 characterized to be an honest man, was not ‘telling the truth £ 19. when he read this first paragraph? | z 20. A No. | at Q Let me read it to you: nA great deal has been written about Lee Harvey ;QOswald, the assassin of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy. 25 iwho- knew nothing. and who tried to conjure Up. from some “? | SLOERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 322763433 Page 22
22 mysterious sources materials wnich they hope would sell. A roy great deal is written by people who knew a smathering and tried to design from what little they knew a story in which 4Athey hoped that what they said would. eventually be taken as dfact.. . | | I learned something of Lee-Harvey Oswald in the period from Friday, 27 September 1963 (when Lee Harvey Oswald having just arrived in Mexico City made his first © ON OD HO PF WD ‘QAO (202) S5u-2445 dcontact with the. Soviet Embassy)."_ | Then it goes on. | Now in this first paragraph Scott is trying to dis- tinguish himself from all of these other. people who are trying to make money by conjuring up from mysterious sources | |materials. they hoped would sel] and you are saying that de- \spite that, he is doing the .same thing? | A That is the way it appears to me. REPORTERS BUCLDING  MASIINGTON, DB. €. Also, I would Jike to say that during the time ie jthat I was there in my dealings with Mr. Scott, L felt that he a twas fair and honest with me. Now, there were times too when | €.. ihe exaggerated things that I knew were. exaggerations. & Q Could you. give an example? - . s A Yes, I could give you an example. : Suspect indi- dviduals that we had collected information on, there was a | saying that went, here was a suspect Soviet agent when the 5 person made their first contact with the Soviets. The second ALOSERSOM REPORTING. COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 23 —ortrrsennarnrnarrocre enter erecta tte, ener caeroneronroat tne nanan nits } | | |
Sat ~~ 8 al / 290 7TH STREET, S.U. REVORTERS QUILDING, WASHTHGTON, D.C, 20024 (202): 864-2945 edbad fs / / na he Oo OO NE OH oO FB W PL i jects I ‘worked on that were not related to this investiga- | tion. He also had a personal safe in his home. lsafe at his home. I know that from time to time he took | classified documents from the office home to work on them at Pnight. I don't know whether he brought all the copies back lwith him. to a man who was then Director of Counter-intelligence and told him that I thought there might be classified documents or third or fourth contact they suddenly became known Soviet agents because they had been there so many times. I felt that was an exaggeration, that they may have been going there | to get propaganda, and I discussed those things with him. Q Did Mr. Scott maintain a personal safe? A He maintained several personal safes but I think he ‘had about three or four. Q Where? A He kept them in the office. Some of them had very | sensitive coded materials in them that he had custody of and ihe dealt directly with headquarters on. Some of those pro- Q  . What type of materials did he keep in that safe? A Well, now I never inspected the materials in that “After he died, at the time of his death, I went in his home... Some of those documents I was told were later turned over to the Station Chief and sent back to Washington. Q Did Mr. Angelton personally go to Mexico City to ALS ERSOM SEPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263433 Page 24
24 1} retrieve those documents? o> 2 A Yes, he went there to the funeral and I think he 3 talked to at that time, Mr. John Horton. 4 Q | After Mr. Scott's retirement, what would he have = -5.j been doing having classified materials at that time? 3. 6. A He had no business having them in my way of think- | 7 3. Q | Now, the Committee has received testimony or state- < (9 | ments from agency employees; one, for example, was Mr. Stan- | e 10} ley Watson. Did you know him? . Z ul A Yes. | | = 12 } Q What. is your assessment of his competence and | : 13° honesty? _ . | ' | = 14 | A. Well, when Mr. Watson and I were in Mexico to- | @ = 15 | gether, he was working on projects that Twas not related : 16 with. Then he was named deputy, I think, shortly. before I | EB oa7/ teft. 1 liked him socially but I didn't work with him. 7 aacel Q How extensive was the "P" file that the Mexico a 9 City station had on Lee Harvey Oswald? | 5 20.4 OA 1 would Say they were voluminous. Are you refer- = 214 ring to only. Oswald? | SER 2 | A or all of them? PR 24 Q <I am referring to Oswald's. | 295 A There were several volumes; I am not sure how many. HW 450955 Docld: 32263433 Page 25
HW 50955 REPORTERS BUTELDING, WASITHGTON, 0. C. 2nh2" (202) S64-23NS Siu, 300 ITH STREET, <5 me wo an Oo Oo NO tnat. 1 remembered seeing. | City station? 29 Oswald "PD" File it was rather thin and also that within the - file he saw a photograph of Oswald that had been taken in Mexico City. I should correct that. He did not testify that; he gave a statement to the Committee investigators about A That he saw a photograph of Oswald that had been taken in Mexico City? Q Now, Mr. Watson has testified that when he saw the Q Yes. . A. Well, I don't think that the Mexico City station ever made a photograph of Oswald. I think that he may have | i been referring. to the unidentified man. but I don’t know. i | Q As a matter. of fact, he was shown ‘the photograph of the unidentified man. and he said no, tnat is not the one he A That is not the way I remember. Q How familiar are you with the history oF the Mexico ! ! i { A The agency nistory? | Q Hell, just the history in general of the Mexico a City station. A Well, except for faults in my memory, I. think | am as familiar as anyone who served there. Qs. Have you ever prepared.an account of the history of | AWSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32263433 | Page 26
; L]the Mexico City station? © 2 A Yes. | 3 Wehn did you do that? 4 A When? 5 5 Q Yes. é 6. § A I believe 1971, somewhere during that period. $ 7 Q Why were you selected to prepare this history; do = 8] you know? - | 5 9 | A I was never: told. 2 lo. Q What was the purpose? z oon A I felt that someone who had a higher rank should e 12 { have been selected. In fact, somebody who did have a higher * 13, rank was selected, a man who had out-ranked me who had worked 5 14 on the desk and had- a much broader knowledge of the Mexico ® 3 15 | operations than I had had been selected and he had been.on th = 16 payroll as a GS-15 for wel] over a year or longer and he had 5 7 | not written a page of that history. 7 : 18) Q Who was this man? | | | b 19 A His name was Brady, B-R-A-D-Y. I came back from z 20 | Mexico and they told me that I had to write it. I tried to ; 21 | cooperate in working on it... a a a | . 7 99 | | What was the purpose of writing this history? Sq a A To satisfy headquarters’ requirement. GX 24) Q | Why does headquarters have this kind of requirement) 25 A That came down from the Director's office. I — ALBERSON REPORTING COMBANY, INC. HW 50955 Bocld: 3227639437 Page 27
e7 oe know. © 2 Q When they asked you to prepare the nTStory, with 34 what goal in mind did they ask you to prepare it? 4 A Pardon me? = 5} Q | When they asked you to prepare the history, they 3 6 i must have explained to you what purpose they had in mind, why = 74 they wanted the history to be written. | 8 | A They didn't ask me to prepare it; I was ordered to S 9; prepare it and it was. from a headquarters director. : 19: Q. When they ordered you to prepare the history, they : ll must have told you what were important factors to consider in : 124 writing a history. Did they just ask you to write a history * 13. without giving you-any guidance at all? eS = 14 | A, There. was a historian who was brought in, I think, | : 15. from Michigan, one of the large universities, who had several = 16 | general discussions about how to write history and how to | = 17. coordinate material, but there was no one there immediately - | ¥ (18) above me with any experience in research or in writing a | s 19 | history. I did it mostly on my own. | z 20 | Q And you do not know why tnese station histories el F 21 prepared? . a i * 22 A No, unless. jt was just to make it ‘easy for briefing AEE material for people who were going there. | VR 24 Q . I would like to show you at this time CIA Number 295 164 and ask you if you can identify this document? entertain ten ae enn rp ne ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263433 Page 28
23 A Yes. 1 . © Q What is it? A This is a background draft that I was asked to writé ~ when I came to work in Washington for the Inspector General's staff. They asked me to write down as much as I could remem- ber or put together from the files which they had of what had happened in Mexico, a resume. Oo oO nn HA GD B&B WwW ND 2N02% €202) Shu-2345 j way except for background information; it would never leave ~ oO: Now, I was told that this would not be used in any | j the agency. 11: Q When was this? 12. ; A The 10th of February, 1977. This is not the histor 13 of Mexico. 14 Q I understand. The history was prepared in approxi- mately 1970 or 1971. REPORTERS BULLDING, PASHTHGTON, D.C. 16 A This document, I objected strenuously to its being 17 | used because I want to call attention to the names of people. = 1a] Many of these people are serving still, some of them in very s 19 sensitive jobs, and they are not connected in any way with 5 20] this investigation. Ean So }. . 22 A I know but they were released outside the agency, : Q That is a problem you have with the agency, yes. PR og Now, I would Tike to ask you to read pages 30 to 31 . 25} of your prior testimony, starting at the top of page 30 and | | | | | ; i QQ No one is using those names , Miss Goodpasture, 7 | i ALQERSON REFORTING COMPANY, INC. WW 50955 Docld: 32263433 Page 230
29 1 going through to line 16 on page 31. o 2} =A All right. | 3. Q Now, I would like to ask you to read CIA Number 444090 to 4091. | | 5 54 Before I do, Miss Goodpasture, do you remember | 5 6 giving this testimony in April? 37 A Yes. = a| 0 | Please read that document. - = ce A | didn't remember my precise answers but I think 2 10 | they are still valid as far as my memory goes now. £ 11 I don't think I ever saw this before. = 12 3 Q Have you read both pages? * 13 A Yes. That second page, in the middle '60's there | @ z 14 was a proposal to reorganize the station and I was going to | : 2 15 be given a Job as executive officer or personal. assistant to / Eis the Chief. of Station to create a slot so that I would be giver & a7 a promotion. | 2 18} “My personnel file, perhaps over at the esr £19], records, may reflect that but it never came about. One of | an 20 | the reasons that I wanted to retire was that they talked soouy & 21 the job. but they never gave it to me. - | | 22 —  Q). So in. fact you are saying that you were not a spec- OSE MP yial assistant to the Chief of Station? A v w. ava f of bh RS. of A. Not in reality. except for those projects which I | worked on and he made the decisions on. What I mean by that | | _ ALQERSON REPORTING COMBANY. INC. - HW 40955 Doocld:32963433 Page 30.
HW 1 we * & a ~ oo me = S. os a 10° = .11 = 12% = ES . . 13. aot = qe 14. = ‘15: 3. os Zz 175 ™ 183 if “ 5. 19: a. 20) ~ 21 ; = a _. 22. ASS 23 oN 24 50955 legal work and most of the paper-work. “ight of CIA Number 4090 and 40912 thought I was best qualified to write that but I don't really © O NOD oO BRB W BD to do it because they didn't want to be sitting here talking i to you and discussing it. lin anticipation of meeting with a Congressional Committee? _ Or | having to. respond to.a Congressional Committee? came back to work was the green book. that the previous Com- mittee had prepared. the people who were there at the time would be interviewed was that he talked to the senior people involved and I did th Q Is there any of your prior testimony on pages 30 to 31 that 1 just showed you that you would like to modify in oA No, because I think that they told me that they know except that I am sure that the other people did not want There were many people who could have done it. The deputy Chief of Station knew more about it than I did. Q So, when you wrote this document you were doing it A Pardon me? Q So, when you wrote this document, you did it In anticipation of meeting with a Congressional Committee and A Yes, because one of the first things I saw when I Q “Ts this statement in your prior testimony true, Miss Goodpasture? Quoting your testimony: "“T was told that all of ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 32269433 Page 31 et enactment et er a trate ne teeter wate eee ere sun pn
HW ‘S0955 20024 (202) SS4-2345 REPORTERS BULLDING, WASLITHGTON, 0. C. S.té. ghacrtn street, — Oo OO YN HA oT & W BD 31 and would be asked to do the same thing that I was asked to do." A Yes. Q So, you were told that? A I was told that but if I remember it, I think Mr. Leader talked with everyone who had been there and it was for that. reason that I tried to make up a complete list. here of all of these people. Q And all of those people would be asked to write ja report as you were being asked to do? > A + That was my understanding, yes, that they would be. interviewed. Q And write a report? A _ And write a report’ or make a written preparation of their memory of the events at that time. 0.” How many months did you work on this project? A Well, jt was interrupted by my mother's sudden death. I think it was almost three. Q And you felt that the agency was going to have all of these other people spend three months? A. Many of these people were still on ‘the payroll but the writing of it was only part of it. My main function up ‘there I felt was to get the files together, help to locate the files and put them together for review by the Inspector General's staff when they were needed by the Congressional ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld:32263433 Page a2 | | | | | |
32 1 | Committee. © 2 Q- Did- you know that you were preparing a report that -3 4 would be used by the Inspector General? _ | 4 A Yes. I sat in his office, in his deputy's office. = 5) -Q Now, we have taken a great deal of testimony from |} : 6 various other agency employees and I would like to ask you wo | = . 7) comment about some of their testimony in which they chavacter4 5 3] ize you specifically. - i = 9 | Question by Mr. Goldsmith: “Was Ann Goodpasture 2 10; acting ina supervisory capacity with regard to the liaison 2 oe operations? | E 12 | "Mr. White: That is very difficult to say. That * 13 bis very difficult to say. She carried with her a lot of & BH 14 invisible authority that devolved upon ‘her because of her = 15 operational relationship with the Chief of Station who had = 16 | absolute confidence in her. She hada marvelous memory; she 5 17. |-was meticulous in detail: I think he had every reason to put = ig. that kind of trust in her, | | & i9 | "She reported directly to him and while she may not a 20'| have been invested with any command authority by virtue of go. 22.4 official deputy. for the purposes of the operations that ‘she }was involved in. 1 VR 24 "For example, we had this old eX- FBI guy. on the 85 outside who worked with the Mexicans with the taps and when | i | ! | | aher position at. the station, certainly she was a kind ‘of un- | ALSERSON REFORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 33
®). wd) HW 50955 il © 300 7TH STRERT; S20. REPORTERS BUCLDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202). 584-2345 > WW Pd ow 33 Ann spoke to George Munro and said something to him, George knew damn well it had the backing of the Chief of Station. -If he didn't, he could go around and check it out.. "By and large there was not much question in ] George's mind that when Ann said ‘The boss wants this,' that it came from Win. To that extent she had supervisory re-. “sponsibility.” "Mr. Goldsmith: Was Ann Goodpasture an employee 7 of the station also? "Mr. Manell: She was. “Mr. Goldsmith: What were her station responsi- | bilities? | | "Mr. Manell: She had many responsibilities that : “included being | an assistant to the Chief of Station. She see [also a person who had some type of responsibility. for collect ing the photos that we obtained in the Soviet Embassy ac- || tivity and I think she was also. involved to some extent in th : telephone tap operations that we conducted against facilities Jin Mexico City. Hr. Goldsmith: To. your knowledge, was Ann Good- 4 pasture Win Scott's right-hand person? "Mr. .Goldsmith: Do you know what her responsi- bilities" -- referring to Ann Goodpasture's -- "were in the Mexico City Station? | | | | 7 | | SLSERSON REFORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 32263433 Page 34
A 34 HS "Mr. Scelco: She was sort of the personal assistant to Win Scott. “ir. Goldsmith: Who were Mr. Scott's chief deputies? "Let me rephrase the question. Upon which indi- viduals did he tend to rely the ‘most? “Mp. Shaw: He had one deputy who was Alan White. As far as reliance on other people, I would say he relied 202% (202) 854-2945 5 1 very heavily on Ann Goodpasture, not in any way in a command function, but as a girl Friday." Miss Goodpasture: I would rather be a girl Friday than.a right-hand man. Ayrrener ne tt personnes (Laughter. ) ‘Well, I made more of those statements as those people saw it in their relationship with Mr. Scott’ S pro- i jects. They. are true the way they Saw it but I had no REPORTERS BUELDING . WASHTNGTON o.c, | responsibility. outside the projects that we worked on, but i <Te |. the liaison projects and the telephone tapping project touched mi | s | every operation in the Mexico station. — | | By Mr. Goldsmith: 5 Q Did you have any contact with the --- e -. A I just. didn't think I was as Important as. other — 5 people seemed to. imply that I was. Se ; ; TR Q Prior .to testifying before this Committee this April, had you had any contact’ with anyone From the agency, { | 4 the CIA, with regard - to your testimony here? | ALQERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 50955 Docld: 32263433 Page 35°
35 1 A No. Well, yes, I had contact. I had a call from a 2 Russell Holmes who told me that he could not locate some 3.4 photographs and he wanted me to come up before I testified, 4.§ that I would have to testify. Mr. Leader told me that 1 =. -§j would have to testify. When I came in, I thought I would be : 6) seeing someone for an interview. = ral In’ the corridor I saw Mr. Manell and he asked me : : gi what I was doing here and I said J] was going to talk to him. = 9 He said, “We all had to talk to them but don't worry because S 19 | they are only going to ask you about some.of the details that z i dare down there in the records." He was the only one that : 12 | had already talked to you. The others nad their dates set up) = 13 | or somethings I don't remember precisely what dates. | e 3 14 | Q . ‘Did Hr, Manel] discuss with you the substance of tha OS =. 15 | questions that were asked of him? | | | = 16 | A He said generally they want to know about what hap- | 5 17 pened down there and the things you will know the answers to = 18} and the photographs. I don't recall “anything specific, | | = 19 | any specific questions. | | &. 20. Q | After your testimony in April . did you have con- 7 Fan tact with anyone from the agency about that. testimony? | B99 A I had contact with several “people ‘who asked me what KSEE 2 I said. 1 didn't discuss the testimony with anyone I recall ee 244. over here. I discussed this document with the Inspector ~ 25 3 General's office because he had told me that it was for SUSERSOMN ZLPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW SD955 Docld: 32263433 Page 36
36 1} background information only. 2 | I said, "y want to know why you released that 3 document instead of the official record copy," and he said “Ad he did not release it; it nad not been released. Then I said =. 5.4. "Well, you better discuss it with them." s 6. I didn't discuss it with any of the others. I —s 74 saw Mr. White in a cocktail bar and he asked me about it. : 3] 1 told him that 1 thought he would be called to testify and I = 9 | was not at liberty to discuss the questions that you asked. 2 10. Q Did anyone else ask you about the questions that 2 11} were asked? 7 = 124 OA I.don't think so. | : 13 | Q Did Mr. Breckinridge or his staff? — | s 2 14 A a1 went to Mr. Breckinridge. He is the one 1 | 5 15.) talked to about these documents because I felt that you didn' E 16 | have all the files. | : 17. . Q Did you discuss the substance of your testimony = 18] with Mr. Breckinridge? | | E is | A No. I discussed the documents generally but we | 5 20 | did not.go. into individual questions. Then I told him that : & 21]. didn't think I made a very good impression, and it was a | = 22.) pleasant experience. ; | = as | SER 2: Q Was. there anyone with whom you discussed the sub- | YR 24.4. stance of your testimony? | | - 25 A No. Mr. Leader, Mr. Breckinridge and Russ Holmes | i ALSERSON SEFSCRTNG TOMPANY. INC. BW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 37
HW 450955 1 > 3 4 a = 11) = 12 = | ~ 135 pag . qe 14) S15. = 16. S = 18! wf ‘ a. 19 : & 20! ~ 21 Looe "22 Ser, 23 Lo yA. 24 o |. 37 Beles ar were in that meeting, so I think I might have said when I went into Mr. Holmes’ office that it was really rough or -something like that but we didn't go into many details. Q Have you had any contact with the agency prior to 3, your testimony: today? A Yes.- I] came in Tuesday, called you from the edge ‘of town. When I arrived at my friend's home she said, } "Someone is trying to call you; his name is George somebody." The name didn't mean anything to me. The next morning a man i who identified himself as George Joannides called to tell me | that you had been trying to get in touch with me, and I told 1 him that IT had already talked with you and explained to nim that T had called your office before I left Dallas and I had to go to.a family funeral. | He said, “That is all I want to know," and I had # no other discussions with him. Q After your testimony in April, did you stay in Washington or in Virginia and do- any work for the agency? A. In April, I went back to the agency the following day and 1 talked to Mr. Breckinridge and Mr. Leader, Mr. | Holmes. I don! t think I went back to ‘the agency again. Q So, you didn't do. any work for them? A No. | Q No research work, for example? A No. When I came up before I talked with you, I SL EERSON REFORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld:372763433 Page 38
38 sof fae helped them locate the photographs. Some of the photographs 1 r 2} they could not find but that was before I came over here. 3 Q . I would like to ask you now to read pages 14 to 16, “44 line 13 on page 16 of your prior testimony. ae) A - Yes. : 6 I haven't had breakfast yet.. = 7 9) We can stop for a recess for you at any time. In : gi fact, we will stop at lunch time, 12:00 o'clock’ at which = 9 | time you will get to enjoy Capitol Hill food again. I don't . to | think you. were very pleased with our cafeterias the last Z ty, | time. g 124 I will also ask you to read pages 35 to 38. = 13 A May I correct the spelling? aavel 0 | Please do. = 2 45 i A ANT right. : 16 | Q Now, I would like to ask you to read CIA Number : 17 4017 and 4018, which is a fitness report prepared by Win = 1g | Scott for you during the period 1963. £19] A AIT right. — 20 i Q Now, having read your: fitness report for 1963, are E 21 | there any portions of your prior testimony that you wish to Cee 93 : A No, not really. Now, this LIEMPTY project, this 7 24 is a case of where I cannot seem to make it clear how our 98 functions were. Now, the case officer had responsibility (SLEERSON SEPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 450955 Docld: 32263433 Page 39 znd
39 gem for the operation of the project. He decided how much to pay the agents, what hours they worked, where the meetings -were held.. He hired them; he fired them and he knew the identities; he met with all of them. | He brought in the photographs, the product. He . dumped it on my desk and he was finished with it. I took the product film and prints and the contact file and dis- tributed those. oOo om NN HD ow F&F YD LD ' / I could levy any requirements of him or other son iin the station which as he remembered it it might have been | i for supervision, but when he was out of town I met with one | y agent with his so-called cut-out. | 1 did not meet with the others. - never determined | | how much they were paid, when they were paid, _when they would | meet, what hours they worked. This is what I was telling ie 368 7TU STREET, SU. REPORTERS BULLDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202). 55%-2945 16 | you earlier, that the job description was laid out. primarily | 17 to get me a promotion. I stayed in grade for 10 years. is] Q So, are you saying that this —_ 19. A The responsibilities of that project were divided 20 | in that way. Now, he may remember it differently. 21° Q “Win Scott prepared this. fitness report and apparent EE B AR Yes. aoe Q.) Specific duty number 1 says: "LIEMPTY project : fi Ph r working with Jeremy L. Niarcos, regular contact case officer, | | dy you signed it. . | Se | | ; | | ALSERSSN BEPORTING COMPANY. INC. HF RO955 Bocld: 32263433 Page 40
40 1 supervises work of three photo bases operating against the o 24 Soviet Embassy. The processes tape, identify Soviets and 34 intelligence functions. ‘Ultimate contact with staff agent." 44. ‘This 1s not accurate? 2) 5. A It is. not precise the way the work was divided. 5 6 4.The photo project was first set up by Mr. Mahoney and Mr. a 7} Anderson and they brought the photographs in to me. = 84 The next person who handled that project--and at —— 9] that time it was. one project all of its own, not called 10 | LIEMPTY--he was transferred away and I stayed there. J ‘td Then Mr. Puckett came and took over the project. = 12 I am giving you this background to show you the rank. I = 13 | believe Mr. Puckett was GS-14. | alle = 14 | | : I ‘continued to handle the photographs. I nade = 18 | recommendations for changing it but I was never the case = 16 officer. They discussed giving me that, project and making me | = 17. the case officer but it never really” came about. . a = 18 | Q ‘Did you supervise the work of Tom Keenan?” ao 19 | A No, only to the extent that I reviewed the photo- a 20 | graphs and if there was something wrong with the photographs, Bards went in “to Tom and. “said--we were good friends and we worked aie but I did not tell him what time to meet the <SE 23 | people, how much to pay them. He wrote his own project out- FR at tine For the project. I worked with nim but it was as an og ft alternate, not as a supervisor, and that is the way I | ; : | | , ALDERSON REBORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 450955 DocId: 32263433 Page 41
emer 23. HW 450955 1 2 3 4 o- } = 83 t a 6 wt a > 7 “™ id -..8. iad a rn Pa is Fs g = 12 = : *, 135 Fted f = — 1 we = 15. z = 16: a = ™~ 18) wt | i 5 19 bar} a (s a . 22 WR 24 os | remembered it. “long and I knew the history of the project. 10]. 14 | Tom, have. the boys work all weekend. _ We would arrange for | case officer did the same thing if they had someone who might 20 | abe 4] Q This duty which is listed as specific duty number 1 is not. an accurate summary then of what your responsibilties -were? - A He said that I was working with Tom Keenan but I “was in the secondary position rather than in the primary me tion. That. is what I am: trying to say. I had been there we) — “gh Did you establish, for example, the time of the photo coverage, the scope of the photo coverage? A ‘TIT don’t think I did. I think that the photo cover- age had been established by the case officer who first set it up on the basis it needs. Now, if we knew that someone might come down there on a weekend, I would run in.and say, other people to be in the area working. Quite frequently, I went out to the area to work. Tom went out to the area to work on discounts but every other go there. Q Now, 1 don't understand why, if you knew this. description was inaccurate, you left this document go to headquarters. a promotion for me. A I think jt was made on the basis of trying to get | . { | | | | | | DoclTd:32263433 Page 42
1 Q Fine. Thank you. o 2 | How many photo bases did the Mexico City station. 3fihave surveiling the Soviet Embassy in 1963? 4 f A Three. In 1963, I think they had three. 5 Q . If I give you a piece of paper, would you be able 6 ito draw the embassy and indicate tne locationof the photo 7 ibases? i 8 A I think SO. =  Q Please. 10. A This is the main building which went something. like this.. That building was located inside a compound. {Now over here were other buildings and there were houses there. In one of these houses--I am not sure now which one-- {the photo. base was located in. 15] Q Let's number each of these bases 1, 2 and 3. Where was photo base number 1 located in reference 1 to the entrance to the embassy? A This is the entrance right here. Tt was across {the street on the west. - : Q Let's label the entrance letter "A." I would like to have this marked "Goodpasture, JExhibit Number 1," and admitted. i 300 TTH STREET, SoM, REPORTERS BHUTEDING, HASHINGCTON, oe. 20024 (202)! S5W-2445 ee vat (Whereupon, the document was was marked Soodpasture, EX- hibit No. 1.) aw ~ ‘ ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 43
1 By Mr. Goldsmith: Ga 2 Q. Would you indicate on this diagram what the 3 cryptonyms | were for each of these photo bases? (44 | Are. you certain that what you have indicated as = 54 photo base number 1 was LIMITED and that photo base number : ~64 2 was LILYRIC? Is it possible that you have tnem reversed? 3 7 A “Well, let's see. After the Warren Commission re- z 8] port, after the unidentified man was released to the public, = 9 | the bases were closed. This: building suffered damage. = to} Q Referring to building number 1. z ‘Al: A _There was an old man here. = 12] Q That is in building number 127. : 13 | A Yes, these people I believe were paid off. This | | re 14] was after I had. nothing more to.do with the project, as) that 4s 3 15 the reason that I am vague on it. The people who were oeate = 16 | here were moved from this location to this location. | : 17. Q So, the people in location number 2 o--- | = iat A ; So that the LILYRIC people who nad a cryptonym vere | 5 19) operating first. here and then they moved to this location. 7 5 20 | Q When did they make that move? 7 7 21° A. 1 don't remember. I don't ‘know. B99 Q On what floor of the buildings were these photo eee 23. bases situated? ee YR 24 A This was a’ house, 7 25 Q Number 1? 7 | | i | I SLSERSOM BEFORTNG COMPANY, INC... HY 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 44 —
44 A That is the reason why it was LIMITED. A two- r 24 story and the top part was used. It was a stone colonial 3 ]-house and had a shell in:one of the parts of the outside “4t-wall. Anyway, they built a small-room. 1 believe this was = -§4 a one-story house and they built a room up in the attic } a 6 | but IT was never in that building so I am not sure. It might | = 7) have been two stories. | | | : 3 Q ‘You are referring to number 1? : S 9 | A This was one the second or third Floor of an apart- So} met building. z 11: This was one the second floor of a small row house. E 12 | Q You are referring now to number 3. | | : 13 | A Yes. I think there were four houses there and I | & = 11 don't remember which number ‘it was in, Tt was in one of the 3 5 four. [ believe it was number 3. | : 7 Q Which of these photo bases did you say was on the = 17,| second floor of the building? | | = ia] oo: . I think this was on the second floor or the third = 49 | floor. | | Oe | : 20 Q Number 2? | 21° A The apartment building. eo | * 22] Q Number 2?- | a | SERB A It was in the apartment building, (‘This was a pris | awd 244 vate residence. | | O85 Q That is number 1. | | | | ALSERSON SEPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW. 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 45
45 And this was a private residence. check their logs. to determine when they were making photo- o3 1 A = 2 Q. That is number 3. 3 A This was a multiple dwelling. a Q You are referring now to number 2? = 5! A. Number 2. : 6. Q Which one of these bases took the better pictures? 27 A Well, I felt that this had the better quality . 3. picture. - = 9 Q You are referring now to the LILYRIC? 3 10 A. Yes. The pnotograohs were made. from a different z tn angle | | = 12: Q -And LILYRIC had the better angle? a 13 A No. I think the pictures were sharper but I don't ! & : 144] think the angle was any better. They were younger people, | = 18 | 1 think, “and they could handle the camera better. = 2 Q “Now, did these two photo bases complement each. | 5 other or did they duplicate each other's work?” = A Well, sometimes they duplicated each other and | f 19 sometimes they complemented each other. | | & 20. —Q ~— Refer now to 1963. | & 21} A (This man in 1963, I think, I cannot remember. : ° 22 The only. way to accurately answer that question would be to | — | PR? 24 graphs - ‘and when they overlapped. | : Q | What would have been the purpose of duplicating ~ i of HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 46 |
WY 50955 2AN2% (202). SSu-24u5 REFORTERS GQUILDING, HASHTHGTON, 0. ¢ Sia 200 7TH STREET! - WwW hd an © oO NS Oo 46 coverage? A None that I can See. A bit of history. It was my understanding that the -reason there were two bases so close .together at that time wa so-that in case something happened to one--if, for instance, a police van moved up there and sat all day and this one had to stop work, there would be an alternate or if Something happened, we would have another base that could take over. Q "But norinal ly they botn would not be working at the same time? | A I think they were set up in a way that they alter-_ nated. They provided the coverage at different hours. Qt would not really make any sense any other way. A No. Q Let me show you some documents which seem to be i consistent with that; in other words, documents which seem to be consistent with your. testimony. I am first going to show you some pages from a document that is a ‘request for the approval ‘of a project for the period December, 1960 _ through 30 November. 1961. Specifically now, CIA Number 4072; which is part. of this request for project approval from the year 1960-- j.why don't you.read paragraph B. This is requesting renewa | {of the project for 1961. This was written in 1960. for | | | | | | | “Excuse me for a moment. | - ; | - - ALSERSOM REZORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld:32263433 .Page i?
a7 approval of the project for 1961. 1 o> 2. A I cannot remember who was--now, this was when? 3 Puckett was there as case officer before Tom Keenan came in. At Q IT. understand. = 5 “Now, drawing your attention to paragraph B, are the a g | contents of that paragraph accurate? zo74 A 1 think so. | | : ai Q Now, let's take a look at CIA Number 2063 which is = 9 i the request for approval of. the project for the following yea . 10: and | direct your attention to naragraph B-1. Does that z 11 {| paragraph. indicate that there has been no change in the cov- = 12 | erage as described in the 1960 request? | * 13 A Yes. . | : 14 Q _ Now, CIA Number 4055, which is the request for the ad 2 15. following year 1962. I draw your attention to paragraph B-l. z 16 Does that paragraph indicate that té avoid repetition the E 17 | station is omitting the usual description of the functions of | = 1g | these three bases and though they contribute to the above | 5 19 objective? This was described in detail in the 1969 request | & 20 | for project renewal. _ - oe . | é 214 | . Is that indicated there? | | 8 ood A It indicates that there was not any change. sey 3 | q _ Finalty, this is the request for approval for the VR o4 | year 1963, CIA Number 4047. og | A Now, this is what I was talking about earlier. erent tangata + ap me geen tern pe erent annie ALSERSON REFORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50355 Docld: 32263433 Page 460
Q What are you referring to? 2 A When we were talking about supervision. | 3 —Q Yes. 7 (4 A Now, Tom Keenan made his own project renewal re- | = 5} quest for the project and his name is not shown in here. I a 3. 64. made up the ones that I worked with Win Scott. This is not 3 7 consistent with the statement in the efficiency report. z ai Q For the record, Miss Goodpasture is referring to 5 9] CIA Number 4025. 3 10 | | Now, let me refer you to CIA Number 4047, which is 11 dithe request for project approval for the year 1963 and = 12 | specifically to paragraph B-1. — | | . 13 A Yes. There was no change. \ = 14 Oo. So, ‘in essence, these documents support _ your ee 2 15 mony that ‘the coverage was designed to be complementary rather 7 5: 16 than duplicative? | | : 17 . ‘Did. either of. these photo bases take photographs r = 18) of Oswald during his visit to Mexico City? | E is A Pardon me? . \ : 20 qQ Did either of these photo bases take photographs | . 21] of Oswald in his visit to Mexico city. in 1963? | a 22 A Not to. my knowledge. cE 2 Q Do. you know why? . : : . HWW 50955 48 A - I don't think he went there: during the hours when they were working. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. ING. - Docld:32263433 Page 49
1 o ; 3. 4 s 6 S 9. < 10: = 11. g = 12: ~ 135 & 6 414) a 20) "- 92 YX 24 HW 450955 25 been destroyed when the files were reduced in size. DocId: 32263433 - operation Q. ‘Well, A . This. the only way that you can determine ‘when they were actually working would be to take the location and check the logs because every time they took a photograph, they turned in a “daily report. down the time, to see when they made pictures, they may have been working an not made a picture. Q Well, | ments indicate that the station nad informed headquarters tha jby design these photo bases operate in-a complementary manner and also that Saturday ‘coverage was to be included. Now, you are saying they may not have been working that way in fact but that is what the records indicate? A That were actually working would be to check the Togs. Q Miss Goodpasture, are the logs from the. LILYRIC A. I believe that some of the LILYRIC logs. were not Page 50 — for 1963: available today?” we have established from these documents that the hours essentially were all daylight hours and these docu- went there on. Friday and Saturday. project outline was a proposal in theory that Every time they made a photograph they put the exposure number and what happened. So, at.the very least, we see that these docu- is right. The only way you can tell ‘that they, in the files when I checked and -we thought that they had ALSERSOM SEPORTING COMPANY, ING. trite ee nemretnecan reteset mene ments also indicate that there was Saturday coverage. Oswald| efit nnn nee ene
ps 9 ~ When was that? A I wrote a memo on that which is in the record based on what we found at the time we made the file search. T am not sure exactly what date it was but the 1 memorandum which I prepared, and I think you have a copy of it, . which snows the backs of some of the files marked LILYRIC | in this period that were interested in and had been used: for other photo files. 1 was not in the Mexico station at Oo oOo NN OD HO F&F WwW BD “2AN2H (202) S5-29n5 j the time that that happened so I don't know how it came j about or why. js . oO: 0 . Miss Goodpasture, I would like to show you your he peed np ee 1 testimony before the Committee on pages 4/7 through 51. I — dad - | would like to ask you to read that testimony and to tel] me lif it is still accurate in your mind. pa: z Yes. “How far did you want me to read? » REPORTERS BUTLDING ; WASHINGTON, B.C. 15 A 16 | Q Read through page 51. | wi A Right here there is some thing confusing. | * 18 Q Please read the entire testimony and it is possible A 19 | that in context everything will be consistent and clear. 5 20 | Please read that and then we will let you correct or modi fy. ; 21. A. What I was referring to here when --- 7 9. This is page 51. A | I thought you were asking me about photographs September and 2 October, when I said one page was missing. : |. } made during the time Span of the Oswald visit between 27 7 I: a | ALOERSON HEFORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DocId: 32263433 Page 51
51 Q . That is what I was asking you about. 1 was con- ee 1 2 24} cerned with that time period. 3 A Now. the photographs which were destroyed, there “4 4 would have been one page for the 27th of September that would 5 54 have been LILYRIC. That one we could not find. 6 | Q But the negatives were still in existence? S 74 A Because at the time that we sent the photograph to z 8] Washington in 1963, shortly after I think we sent those photo a a graphs to Washington after the assassination, the negatives : 10 | of the LILYRIC photographs I believe were forwarded to é 11} Washington; I am not sure. : 12 Q So, the negatives were still in existence but the | : 13 | photographs you were not able to find. | ah : 14 A - For that day. | | | | 3 15 Q ; What about the production Tog for that day? | E 16 | A : The production log we could ‘not locate. as | “remember 21s Q - Fine. . Is there anything else you would like to | Lo 19 clarify about this testimony? | & 20 | A No, I just wanted to establish that timeframe, 27 | © a1} october to 2 October, which I think was a weekend. - | 7 22} . Q Do you know why the LILYRIC. photographs were des- ceca 23 | troyed? | | YR. 24 A “I think it was reduction of the files. | 25 Q - Why did they keep the LIMITED photographs and not | CO : a | i | | ALBERSSON SEPCRTNG COMPANY, INC. HY 50955 Docld: 322763433 Page 52
SHORT/edm the LILYRIC? on Gee IAt sp fols A I don’t know but I will say this: That for the siz of the files, the file room was about four times the size of this room.and you could not walk through there by the time 2 I left. There was a new Station Chief and he didn't have the z } same Feeling for all of those records that his predecessor 3. 7ihad had and he had a new staff with him. | . | | When I went back there a few months after I had left, s , you could have played ping pong in the place, there was that S : much paper that had been reduced. = Q Miss Goodpasture, have you ever heard that : 4 Charlotte Bustos found a photograph of Oswald at CIA head- | * : quarters? | . . | r a A You told me that when I was here in April but I was Es J not aware of that. | z | | Mr. Goldsmith: I think this may be an appropriate 5 | time for us to break for lunch. . = ; Miss Goodpasture: I think it might. | H Mr. Goldsmith: We will break until 1:30. | 5 (Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., a recess was taken until & 41:30 p.m.) | SE : YN 24) 25} i SiWIERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 53
waRD/Piland .Assass. 11/20 _ “AFTERNOON SESSION a 2 (1:35 p.m.) 3 Whereupon, 4 ANN GOODPASTURE = 5 | resumed the stand, and having been previously duly sworn, - 6}. was examined and testified as follows: = 7 _. EXAMINATION z 8 By Mr. Goldsmith: $ 9 | oO I believe that you have a statement, Miss : 10 | Goodpasture, that you would. like to clarify for the record z 11 at this time? | = 12 | A Yes. You asked me.earlier if I had been in touch = 13 with anyone from the agency after my last testimony in = 14) April. In. duly 1978, I believe it was the 15th of July, ® 3 15 | a very close friend of mine died, and I came to Washington z 16 just for the funeral. While I was here, Scott Breckinridge : 17 called the house and asked if he could come by and see me. = 138. He and Russ Holmes. came by, ‘and he said that he wanted i 19] to know where the records were, if I could give them any 5 20 | information to locate any additional records on the photo- 7 21 | graphs for Cuban and Soviet embassies. “He was mainly =. 99 interested in Cuban embassy photographs because he thought oSE 23 | that I had given. testimony before that was not consistent PR 24 with information in the files. I didn't recall giving specific testimony on ALDERSON BEPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 DocId:32263433 Page 54
1 Cuban embassy photographs on when that — 2 In any event, I told him that -- where the logs would be 3 located and how he could find out when coverage was made, when ‘4 >the cameras were operating with the logs. And that was the z 5} extent of that contact. © : . . . z 6 |. Q Did you indicate to him where those logs could = 7 ‘be found? . = 8: A Pardon me? : 3 x 9 ‘) Did you indicate to him where those logs could be 3 10 found? € 1 A. Yes. | 5 124 I indicated where had.seen them last. . 13 0 And where was that? | @ z 14 A - That was Mr. Holmes’ files, in his file cabinet. | = 15 | Q Now, when you testified in. April, we discussed a | : 16 | photograph, photograph of the unidentified man -- =) a = ig Q Who was initially mistakenly linked with. Oswald | E 19 in the cable that was sent from Mexico City Station to | Z 20 | headquarters. . a | | = 21 | - Do you remember that? | re ‘Right. . | SERB ie) And that cable reported that on 1 October 1963. | VR 24 the North American male was seen -- rather not seen, but | 25 had been in contact with the Soviet Embassy. H J ALOERSON REZORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 DocId: 32263433 Page 545.
I have before me CIA No. 4087, which is apparently with it. 1 @ 24a log from the photo coverage, and I would like to ask you on 3% what basis the report was made that the unidentified. man had '44 been in contact with the embassy on October lst? = 5: According to the log, it indicates he was there on ; : | 6} October 2nd. | a = 7 A I think that the person that wrote the cable -- I an z 8] not sure who wrote the cable, but I think that when they firs 5 9. looked at it, they thought that this was the lst of October,. 2 10 | that everything here was the first of October. He didn’t z 11} read the log here. g = 12 | Q But in the original of that log, I should point out 7 13) that each day is marked off with a red row. | | | eo = : @ os 14) A. Yes. | | - = 15 Q We have a. Xerox here which doesn't reflect the ~ = 16 fact that this was ‘actually sort of a multicolored document . | = 17 A But. that is the: only explanation I have, just | ; 18) that it was careless reading.. I don't know. . | o “19: | Q Were you. the person that went and retrieved that | 5 20 | / photograph and made the connection with the date, or wat | & 21} it someone else? — ae 7 a | 3 20 A ‘It could have been me or it could have been the tS 23 | person who sent the cable, but I usually gave copies of the | TS 24 photograph to the analysts to do whatever they wanted to | | | 1 | i SLSERSON REPCRTNG COMPANY. INC. HW 450955 Docld: 32263433 Page 56
BN es WW 50955 ~ Le t. OH PTH STREET, SU. REPORTERS BUTEDING, WASHINGTON, DLC, 20024 (202) S54-2345 3 Als wo / an > Gs BO oO oOo ~~ 3) Now, in this particular case, that photograph could have been given to Mr. Scott, Mr. White or Mr. Manell. Q Why would it have been given to Mr. Scott or Mr. White? A Because at the time that we got the intercept and i we began to look at the photographs, any American that we thought we had identified, we passed it to the Chief of Station and the Deputy Chief of Station,. and thé men for the Soviets, Mr. Manell. . Now, we were not supposed to report on American citizens unless they were subjects of ongoing investigation and we had permission to pass that information to the FBI. guess it was because of the civil rights thing, but we just had a standard regulation that we had to have permission from headquarters to disseminate information on Americans. QO ' Do you.recall who specifically found the photograph of the unidentified man, the photograph that was mistakenly tied to Oswald? | A Pardon me? | Q Do you recall specifically who it was that found the photograph of the unidentified man, the photograph which was mistakenly linked to Oswald? | A ‘I am the person that first made the decision that that man was probably an American. Now,. I think Mr. Scott “was the. one. who inserted in the cable or sent the message ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 32263433 Page a? | | |
that it was probably Oswald, but I don't know. I can't -- I ] same care with the same Texas plates, and this was another : visit that he. had made there. 1 Gq 24 don't remember who -- how that photograph was’ connected with | . 3 Oswald later. Tt was ‘the only person, the only photograph “4 in the bunch that could have been a non-Latin that day. = 5 QO Well, let me show you this here, on September 27th, 3 64} '63, there were two other unidentified American males. = 7 A. But these people had been there several times 2 8: before. We knew who they were. | - = 91 Q How did you ‘know that then? : 10 A Because of ‘that license plate. That car. had been z 11 1 there previously. 5 12 : Q What about the individual on line 13? | 7 13 A I think that they were Mexicans. | ‘s = 14 Q . There is a notation here which says this is a | * ® 3 15 | Mexican. man, Gutierrez, license ‘plate changed in February _ — 16 "64 to Mexican, so and so, : : 174 A Yes, we identified him and I believe he was in a | = 18) travel agency. I am not sure. | i 19 Q But was he identified in 1964, or was he still | 5 20 | unidentified as of September 27th, 1963? | 21 | A He had been identified, I think, before. ‘I don't | - 22 know; I would have to check the records. to be sure. I think SRE that he had been identified through a previous visit in the | VX 24 { _ | HW 50955 DocId:32263433 Page 58
HW 30955 REPORTERS BULLDING, WASHTNGTON, D.C. 29024 €202) 654-2945 . . ca SS. JHA TT STREET, on > &y nN ‘oO oe ~ n- Q Le he had been identified, then why woul log have’ referred to him as an unidentified American male? A This was made by the base house operator. We didn't tell them when we identified someone. They typed up the log. 7 QoQ. . Now, getting back to the first question that I | asked you.here, you are saying that whoever went to this log ' | just looked at the top of the page where it. said October lst, and went down the rest of the page, and assumed that the man had made contact with the embassy on. the lst, even though“ he appears under the 2nd. _ A The 2nd. i Q Do you think that you would have made that mistake? A Tt. could have, yes. QO Even though you worked with’ these types of logs over.a period of many years? A. Well, it is very careless, but I am not above it. I. 7 | I can't.say now because I don't remember. | Q Who first identified Oswald in his. dealings with | the Cuban Government in Mexico City? | AU. who. first identified him? | Q Who ‘girst made ‘the connect Lon that Oswald had been in contact with the Cuban Government in Mexico City? AD I don't remember. Q Was it yourself? ALDERSON BEPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32763433 Page 459
na -& WwW Nh 20024 (202) 554-2345 Oo oO ~~ DH <3 e = 11: = = 412: ~ 13 | z : 3 15 | 2 4 2.17 2 18. f 19) 5 20) . 21 : tion initiated by David Phillips recommending that you receiv oy oS 1a medal for your high performance at the Agency. | that here. : medal, and it burned with all my household effects while I {was here on a TDY. i made the connection between Oswald and. the Cubans, that that ‘have remembered? “A Well, it might have been the monitors” outside and they called it to my attention. °Q Pardon me? A “The transcriber outside may have called it to my i attention. _Q When did he call it to your attention? A I said he may have. I don't remember. 0 Let me show you CIA No. 4019, which is the recommen a- Please read it. (Pause) A ft don't remember if I was the first one who saw it in the transcript. or not, even though Dave Phillips says I haven't seen this before. | They did give me a Q po you think if you had been the person who had is an event which, in light. of Oswald's subsequent involvement in the assassination of.the President, you would A. Well, I think that with all of the things that happened at that time, just being the one who recognized i SLSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 60
a we a F ‘that that call came from inside the Cuban embassy, calling it 1 oo 9} to the attention of someone else would not have been that 37 significant because of all the other things that we were doin -4] at the same time. | | = 5 | fe) Ms. Goodpasture, was there a photo surveillance u 6 | operation against the Cuban consulate in 1963? | ; = 7 A There was a photo surveillance capability against ~ 8 the Cubans. I am not sure if it was located in front of = 9 | the Consulate or in front of the embassy because I didn't 10. have responsibility for handling any of the Cuban photographs. = 11? Q Do you know whether this surveillance operation was = 124 able to obtain a photograph of Oswald during his stay in a ; = 13 Mexico City? | | ait = 14 | A. I don't think it did. | “ = 15 | Q- bo you know why it was unable to? ~~ : 16 A Well, now, that is part of the grey area. T heard, é 7: but I don't recall seeing this in the record, that that | : : , { = is} camera was down, not functioning at that time. | - 19. Q. | Let me show you now a series of documents from | a 29 | that record which the Committee is attempting to clarify. Lo : 21 And hopefully by showing you these documents, your memory \ . 5 99 may be somewhat refreshed as to what happened. The first oss 23 is a document dated 18 October 1963 which is a monthly Ym. 24 report for the month of September 1963 dealing with these 25 _ photographic surveillance operations, and I would like for | | | : ALSERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. H¥ 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 61
Hy SOS 55 io) 20024 (2023) 9$58-~29N5 REPORTERS BUELDING, WASUTHGTON, 0. ¢. a, 8. 3A 7TH STREET, 22 25 you to read at this time CIA Document 411 Oo oF NV oO Oo ee WH PS 10 lle 12 : 16 184 20 or starting with paragraph 5({c). You.may want to look at the first page, but start reading down here. (Pause) A How far do you want me to read? Q Just to there. Does paragraph 5(c) refresh your memory at all as to the capability of the Soviet surveillance operation -- A No. | : , Q Rather, the Cuban surveillance operation? OB No. I really wasn't involved in this operation. This was one. that was directed by what they call the Technical Services Staff and the station photographer. The only time I got involved in the Cuban photographs was when they had a photograph and they wanted to know if that person had gone to the Soviet embassy. or if they had somebody they wanted me to watch for, my people in there. 9 | So you don't have any personal knowledge one way or another about whether. the camera was. in operation. A No, nothing: except what came. to me second hand. Q And that was what came to you second hand. A . Yes, station comments in my presence or something. Q “What was the substance of those station comments? A Well, that the camera was not functioning. I ALOERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld:322763433 Page 62 a ee } |
10 knew that they were trying out a pulse camera, one that was _ By Mr. Goldsmith: (Resuming) 1 a> 2} activated by motion, and they wanted to know about putting 3; that in one of. the Soviet bases, but it produced a voluminous ~4 amount of film and we couldn't handle it because everybody 2 54 that went by triggered the camera. | a 6. Q Thank you. = 7 | Turning to another area now, Ms. Goodpasture, did | z 8 the Mexico City Station maintain records and files on employees 5 | 9 of the Cuban Embassy and Consulate? 2 10 A Yes. | 11 | Q How extensive were the Station's filed on Sylvia E. 12 4 Duran, who was the. secretary to the Cuban Consul with whom | : 13 | oswald had a contact when he applied. for a visa? | = 14 | A. . I.don't think I looked at that file until I came @ 2 iS back to Washington, when I was here for.the three months. It z 16 seems to me that it was a couple of volumes. | ro) j = 17 | Q Did the Mexico City Station. maintain material in the = 18 | file concerning Duran's sexual affairs or ilove life? | z 19 -AO. The Mexico Station policy. on files. was to put a | a 20! copy of every bit of information about an individual that com : 21] to their attention in that file. | | } . . 22 Q $0 that would include those types ‘of matters. SR 3: . AW That would include everything. ao YR 24 (Discussion off the record) | | | | ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. ‘HW 50955 Docld: 32263433 ‘Page 63
il 1 QO Would the information that the Agency obtained © 2}on Duran's sex life have been used to attempt to recruit her 323i in some capacity to work for the Agency or to assist the - '4 Agency in some way? =. 5! A. You mean could, it’ be or was it? r 6d Q | Could. | | = 7 A | well, I think that that would be a question that = g j only the case officer would be able to answer bécause he = g would have a better idea of what her reaction would be. : 10. Now, we kept everything of a personal nature about z 11 4 an individual in an assessment, personality assessment so 1274 that whoever wanted to attempt to recruit that individual : 13 could take that information into consideration in making theit 2 14 | approach. | i z 15 | QO. So that information would be considered. = 16 A Yes. | | ! 5 8 17 | Q Did anyone at the Mexico City Station ever attempt| , 18 to recruit Sylvia Duran to work for the Agency? | 5 19 A Wo, I don't Know for sure. That would have been | 5 20 | something for the Cuban: section to. have handled and I. | - IL: wouldn't have had specific knowledge of it. | i: Fag QO. Well, would it have been standard operating vroceske ERE 23; to attempt to recruit someone. who worked at the Cuban’ consulake? P< 24 A Of course. | 25 (Pause) ALOSERSON BEPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 “Page 64 ry |
12 eet l QO Let me show you CIA document No. ‘20 3, which was a 2}a contact report, and I would like to ask you. to read paragra h 3iNo. 4. | 4 (Pause) ; = 5: A Okay. . ; 64 Q «© Now, according to this document, a CIA source is | = 73 providing information that Oswald may have had sexual affairs = 8 jor relations with Sylvia Duran. - | | 9. | ‘Do you recall when. the first time was that this S 10: type of information concerning Oswald and. Duran came to the z 114 attention of the Mexico City Station? oo = 12. A No. : 1s | My only connection with Sylvia Duran that I recall = 14 was the Mexican police picked her up after the assassination L $ a 15 | and interrogated her. The man who obtained the interrogation) _ = 16. report gave them to me to carry back. to the office. | That i: 3 4 8 17. was George Munro whom you mentioned earlier with Mr. White. | = 18 He handled that outside project. He was the outside case s 19 officer. | 5 20 | Q . Did he give you the interrogation report or did he | a 21 | give you. transcripts as well? eS. A I.don't remember because T think that he only KSEE 23] gave me the interrogation reports in Spanish, and I think avr ; ‘ ; ; YX 24 Dave Phillips had someone do the translation. 25 }. He may have given me the initial report and then AWSERSSM BEPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 65
13 Dave Phillips saw him directly. I can't remember that. 2. @) Were you given a transcript of the interrogation 3, itself in addition to a:report? (4 A Yes, I think there was a lengthy transcript. Es 5 Q And George Munro .was --. | | 6. A It had her photograph in it. I think they gave us | x 7 a copy of the Mexican file on her which had a copy of the z 8 | arrest, her photographs and the interrogation report. S 9 | Q Did it also have a transcript of the interrogation? < 10. A. I'm not sure about that now. z 11) Q Was George Munro the person who was principally 5 ; = 12 | involved in handling this matter with the Mexican authorities : 13 | A Yes,.I think he was. e = 14 Q . Do you know why the Mexico City Station requested = 15 the Mexican government to arrest Sylvia Duran? = 16 | A No, I don't know exactly why. — 2 s 17 | Q Do you know why she was selected as opposed to = oe anyone else at the Consulate or Embassy? | 5 i9 | A No. 5 20 | Qo Do you know whether Headquarters was notified ‘i ay prior to the Mexico City Station requesting that Duran be * 99} arrested? - Z=[s 23 A I don't remember. Without checking the file I couldn't say. a) When did Headquarters first learn of the actual ee nent eee perc tn ee tt et a enn eye terre recreate &WJERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. WW 50955 Boclad:327263433 Page 66
14 cc 1} arrest? © 2 A I don't know, but IT think it was after she had 3 | been arrested. 4 Q Do you recall what the headquarters reaction was? 2 5 A ‘I don't think they liked it, but I don't remember 5 6. exactly what the comment was. = 7 Q Do you have ‘any reason to know why they didn't like =. 8] it? : = , , oe 9: A Well, I think that they felt that the station was < 10 | Stirring up an international problem, something with the Cuba z ll j embassy, that there might be -- that the Cuban embassy might 5 =: = 12 { lodge a protest. = 13 Q Why did the -- why did headquarters request the es ! . @ z 14 Mexican Government to keep the arrest absolutely secret? 2 15 A I don't know. = 16 9 ' Do you know why the Mexico City station did not : 47 contact headquarters prior to requesting the Mexicans to a = 1B arrest Sylvia Duran? | zig : A No. | 5 20 Frequently Mr. Scott took independent action withou 21 getting headquarters’ approval on some cases, and I believe . 22 SEE check the records, I think he ‘discussed it with the Ambassado wy ree before it occurred. The Ambassador Mann _ I think would remember. that he discussed this, but I am not sure. ‘I'd have to to t i} i ALSERSON SEPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263433 Page 67
L5 Q Did any Americans have contact with Sylvia Dura re during her arrest? 2 3 A I don't know. . 4 Q Now, you have indicated that Mr.. Munro gave you the 2 5 |. interrogation reports from the interrogation of Sylvia Duran. 2 6. How many interrogation reports did he actually give S 7 you? | ~ 8 A ‘I don't know. I don't remember. > = 9 But the -- I said he gave me the reports. I don't ‘ 19 | remember that he gave me the reports, but the standard method | z 11: of transmitting things to the station would have been through = 12. me. It also could have been through Mr. Scott. Mr. Scott = = 13 | met him maybe once a week. I met him every day and I took: 2 ig! an envelope out fo Mr. Scott and gave Lt to him which con- © 5 15 | tained a list of requests: fromthe station, and I received | : 6 an envelope from him which included all the material that he | 2 17 | wanted to go to Mr. Scott. I took that in ‘and gave it to. 7 ig] Mr. Scott, and a cover sheet that listed the contents. . Mr. t 1g | Scott read it all and then in most cases he did the routing, | - 20 | and indicated on: the ‘cover sheet. in his handwriting to whom : 91 | he had sent the enclosure. | | 5 | Q Did you ever read the interrogation reports? ee 23 A I looked at those reports -- that file when I NE , _ VR 24 came up here in 1977. I don't think I had seen it before. om Do you recall how many interrogation reports were PLOERSOMN SESORTING COMPANY. ING. HW 50955 Doold:32263433 Page 66
16 present in the file? i A No. Q What was done with the reports in Mexico City after] they were received? A They were distributed to the case officer that was interested in that particular area. For instance, if there were two Soviet couriers that came in that were under | j surveillance by the Mexicans, that report would go to Mr. 2024 (202) §54-2445 oOo oO NN HD WO F&F W PV Manell. If there had been two Cubans, that report would have | gone to Dave Phillips’ section. ws a 10; Zo Q In the case of Syivia Duran's interrogation ~~ = 12 | A That would have gone to -~ | * 13 Q What about her interrogation reports? | eS = 14/1 A It would have gone to the. Cuban Section. That | 3 15 | would have been Mr. Phillips’ office. | 7 16 Q When, if ever, would the interrogation reports E 17°| have been sent to Washington, to headquarters? ¥ 1a A Well, they should have been sent by the next | i 19 ; pouch. | oo _ 5 20 1 Q Did the Mexican Government give the Mexico City. | F. 21 | Station all the information that it had obtained from | 7 224 Sylvia buran during her arrest? . oo 7 : LEE 2 ; A Well, that's a good question. You never know cota pee 24 you get it all or not because you have no way of checking. | 25 Q. What -- | of 4 ; | ALDERSOMN REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955  Docld:32763433 Page 69
17 4 f RO) > 1 A in liaison operations, you can only assme that aq | 9] they have given you what they want you to have, and I don't 3 think you have any way of proving whether you got it all or 4 not. 2 5 Q I would like to show,you at this time CIA No. 743 7 : 6. Can you, identify, that document? S 7 A Which one? ~ 8° 6) The document that appears on this page. g 5 | A This page? - : 10. (Pause) = 11: 6) Since you are having some difficulty, why don't we: = 12. start at the very beginning of. this, and we are now at CIA a : = 13 No. 628. | . : 1 Can you identify the material contained here? ; 4 @ is A This document , I think, contains a series of . ~~ : 16 extracts made by Mr. Rocca, I believe, of the CI Staff, from | 5 7 documents which were ‘in the Mexico Station file of Oswald. | = 18 Q Did you lave any involvement in the compiling of | - 19 this. document? . | 5: 20 | A No. I saw this after it was already done, and I | E. 51 | did make some notations on some information in here that | < 4 994 was not correct.. | SSE 23 , 9 I see. | | ga? What about the marginal notations on the left I of each page? | HW 50955 Docld: 32263433 Page 70
18 1 A No, I didn't have anything to do with that. I a 2 | don't know about it. 3 | I assume that must refer to the number of the . 4 document, but I don't know. | ; = 5: Q Let's look-at page 743 now. | _ : 6. I would like you to address.your attention to the | = 7 | marginal notation on the left... It says Oswald and Sylvia | . 8} had an affair. Why didn't Mexican police give us all informa = 9. tion? 2 10. A 'I think what happened there, I think we received the information from this source -- z il g = 12 ; Q . That's LIRING-3? * 13 A LIRING-3, long after wereceived the information from a 5 14 the Mexican police, but I. don't know. * z 15 | 0 You received a report from him long after you. -- | 7 2 16 A That's my guess. I don't know. 7 | = 17 Q ts it possible that -- = 18 A I think that this probably came in later. | &. 19 me) Well, by this you are referring to LIRING's report. | 7 20 That came in in 1967? | 21 | A.. I think the LIRING-3 information was the only 7 F949 informant -- this was the only informant who claimed that KEE 23 } Sylvia Duran was linked sexually with Oswald. 1 don't. pe 24 think the Mexicans reported that. information to us. Q. The Mexicans never’ reported, that at all. ALSEARSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DocId: 32263433 - Page 71
19 A I don't think so. 1 . @ 2 Q Do you know whether this allegation was ever 3] confirmed? 4 A. I don't think it was. It seems to me that there = 5 was a rumor that LIRING-3 always connected his suspects : 6. with somebody else sexually, and the information could never S 74 be confirmed . | | ~ | 8 Q Do you have any reason to believe that the Mexican S 9: authorities withheld information from you? S 10: A No,. but I have no reason to believe that they z 4! always gave us every bit of information they had on a : 12 subject because we didn't give them all the information we = 13 had on a subject. | | $d ' = 14 Q oe Did you have reason at any time to suspect that | “ & 2 15 Duran may have been a Mexican agent? . . ~ : 16 A Pardon me? | | 5 17 Q Did you ever have reason to believe that Sylvia | ; 18. Duran may have been an agent ‘for the Mexicans working in the | 5 19. Cuban Consulate? | 5 20° A I don't -- I-never gave the matter any thought | : 21 because I wasn't responsible for the: Cuban activities | g a, (22 section. | oar e Do-you know a man named Maurice Bishop? | WAR 24 A Who? , | — | 25 Q Maurice Bishop? | an | i | ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 72
20 A I don't think SO. Did he have a pseudonym? . Q We are actuaily not sure if the name Maurice. .Bishop is a.pseudonym or a-true name. A Bishop. That name doesn't ring a bell with me. Q Are you familiar with the allegation that was made in 1964 and 1965 by. a woman named Elena Garro de Paz concerning her having seen Oswald ata party in Mexico City? A Who made it? QO The woman's name was Elena Garro de Paz. A. Yes. As I recall now, she -- a man by the name of Charles Thomas, III, who was a Foreign Service officer in the political section in Mexico, had a wife whose name was. Cynthia. . The two of them knew some Mexicans who were | Thomas and his wife were interested in little theater groups or art groups, and they. had met Garro. at some function. He wrote a memorandum with information. in it that she had given | | literary types and little theater types. I believe that | lhim. I believe -- I think that the minister -- that went | up to the ambassador's office, and. the minister gave it to | ior. Scott and asked Mr. Scott to confirm it. Mr. Scott asked I think. he asked me about it ‘and I believe we asked the FBI 300 PtH SeRELT, Sou. REPORTERS GUPLDING, WASHTHGTON, D.C, 2002% (202) S5n-2345 4 and the FBI came back that they were also working on it. The i Boo eS. had been asked to check it out. 254. Not very long after that another -memo came from | | | ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. H¥ 50955 Docld:32263433 Page 73 -
21 & HW 50955 4. A As { 200 TTHOSPREET, Su, REPORTERS BUILDING, WASUTHGTON, 0. C. 20024 (202) 55n-2945 ea. ‘o co  “ $3) an » G Nm a nm oa 12 : of the assassination, and out of that came still more memoran da. “What dia they report? : . ” bs iM Thomas of another conversation with this woman. In that memorandum, her story was a little bit bigger and a little ‘bit different, but. I don't think. --~ and I believe that the Mexicans arrested the woman and her mother-in-law, or they asked the Mexicans for police protection at the time | QO Well, we will get into that ina moment. Let me show you CIA No. 719, which is a document that. is among the compilation prepared by Mr. Rocca. A. -This one?> Q Yes, it is entry No. 426. Would you please read that to’ yourself?. Q Just read this section. ae A That's-all you want? Okay. Q Now, Entry No. 426 indicates that sources LICHANT and LIONION were. going to be asked about Elena Garro's story.! | | (Pause) . | . oe | | | i } | What did these..sources report when they were asked. about Elena Garro de Paz's allegations, LIONION and LICHANT, when. they were asked about Elena Gerro's allegations A I don't know. In my part of this would have been that I would | | | | | | | . i ALSERSON BEPORTING COMPANY. ING. ! Docld: 32263433 Page 74
BW 450955 “have gotten questions to give to Watson to ask Thomas. a LIONION -- well, that cryptonym LIONION there is used in- correctly because cryptonym:’ LIONION was the whole Cuban embassy. LICHANT-1 was a source in the Cuban embassy, and I think he was in touch with someone in the Cuban section. Qo Now, you mentioned Watson... | Was Watson in Mexico city at this time? A Yes, Watson was the man who was in touch with 2002" (202) 554-2445 Thomas, and.I think he was the one that Thomas unburdened Oo fo ny DA Oo SP WW DS to first, and then they got a memorandum out. 8 e 10. = 11: Q I see. S oe 7 = 12 | a Now, LICHANT, the source, his name was Manuel ~ 13 4 Calvillo.— ct ! a a 14 A. I didn't know him. He was -- he may have been in. 5 15 touch with the Cubans or with Watson.. I don't know who | = 16. handled him as a case officer. 2. : 2 17 |: (Discussion off the record.) * 184 By Mr. Goldsmith: (Resuming) i 19 Q. Please read CIA No. 718, Entry No. 425, this 5 20 |. paragraph here. | 5 21° (Pause) g a 22 A Yes... 2s 3 QO Now, Manuel Calvillo is LICHANT I, and in that WR. 24] section that I just asked you to read, he is the person ‘that. escorted Elena Garro de Paz to the small hotel. ALSERSON BEFSORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32263433 ‘Page 75
A Mm-hmm. But he wasn't in touch with my Mexicans. SY , | ry 2 He was reporting independently to someone else in the station 3 not through Liaison. 4 Q Do you know who gave him his orders to -- $5 A No. : 6 | Q —~- to take her to a hotel? Is it possible that it : 3 7 was someone at the station? | . | * 8 | A No, I don't think it came from us. ~ 3 9 | Q This same individual, Manuel Calvillo, knew about 0: Sylvia Duran's arrest before it had been made public. z il: Do you know how he obtained that information? = 13 | @) Do you know why Calvillo, who is LICHANT-1, | 2 14 | discouraged Elena Garro. de Paz from contacting the American | 4 Big = 6 i embassy? | | _ z 16 : A No. ! 7 17 Q Did you ever meet this man Calvillo? . | = | 18 A No. | 5 i9 | Q ° You indicated earlier that -- . | z 30 | A -I don't even know who. he reported to in the = 51 | station. . | . € 22 Mr. Goldsmith: off the record. EE 23 she | ee The Witness: No, it would have probably been are / ¥ ry ms ‘either Watson or one of the people in the Cuban embassy, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:322763433 Page 76
24 HY Va” but you can find out by getting his 201 file and finding»: 5 24% out to whom he reported, who wrote reports on him. 3 By Mr. Goldsmith: (Resuming) | “A 0) Okay. = 5 j. A . He would have a 201 file and he would have an Z 61 agent file, I think. To get the money to pay the. man, “they “ 74 had to submit an operational report on their contacts. with | z 8) him. ~ a 9 Q Did you ever submit any questions to Watson = 10} to pass on to Mr. Thomas? | z 4. A I am sure I did but I don't remember what they Q 4 . : a 124 were. I probably took the memo that Watson had written. = 13. and wrote up a list of questions that went something like, = 14 | "Who else was there when.Sylvia Duran ~- when this occurred, 3 15. where, at what time” and. so forth, how did she communicate e 16 | with him, | | : 7 Q Did this man Calvillo, LICHANT-1, ever submit any = 184 written reports regarding Elena Garro de Paz? | | 5 19. A I donft know, but his file should indicate whether 5 30 | ‘there were ‘any. ~ a ; 21° 2 Is it possible that Calvillo was an unwitting ° . 22 asset to the ‘Agency? | | | SHB A It's possible that Calvillo was a subagent of ve 24 George Munro and also at the same time being handled by SOS55 someone in the station “without our. knowledge, I mean, a an ey re) ath ob noch ALDERSOM BESORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32263433 Page 77 ro
25 re HW 30955 } | 300 7TH STRERT, S20. REPORTERS QUELDING, WASUTHCTON, D.C. 20028 (202) S$5-2345 Docld: 32263433 Page 78 gan to co a} n na os i) i ao ye oe) roy 19) ie) — — Oo wo oo | ad © . de Paz did in fact stay at a small hotel in Mexico City ts gant — wm & Ww ms ~ i that aspect of the story, is that correct? " questioned about this? subagent of George Munro without our knowledge. He may have been .on a surveillance team directed by one of the people that George Munro was handling. . At the same time, he was on that team, he may. have been reporting to Bob Shaw, or Mr. Watson, or Mr. Phillips. Q I see. Let me show you CIA No. 725, and I would like to ask you to read Entry No. 466. . ~ (Pause) A Yes. Q Does this entry appear to confirm that Elena Garro several. days immediately after the assassination? A That's the notation made. by Mr. Rocca, and this memo, was from the FBI office to Mr. Scott. QO |. And the. ‘substance of the memo appears to confirm that aspect of her story, is that correct? A Unless there ‘was another person by the same name. from San. Luis Potosi at that hotel, which I doubt. Q Well, so in substance, the memo tends to confirm A That .would be my. deduction, yes. Q Do you know whether Calvillo, LICHANT-1, was A No. ALOERSON BEPORTING COMPANY, INC. | | | | | | | | | | | | <a
Q Even after this portion of his story was confirmed, i if 1 @ 2 he was not questioned about it? Or you don't know if he 3 was questioned about it? 14 A. I don't know because I wouldn't have been the = 5 | person that would have been ~~ I should have seen “part of 5 6: it, but it would have been up to Stan Watson probably | = 74 to read the material when i£ came in. | z a] Q Do you know why it would have taken almost a year | S 9: to have confirmed this aspect of Elena Garro de Paz's story? : 10 | I might add that -- : 11 A . Well, you almost could never get an answer out = 124 of Charlie .Thomas when you asked him sometning. He wrote | : 13 | these memos constantly. Then you would ask him.for additional ap E ae information, it would be just like dropping a rock into - 2015) “the ocean. It never came back up. But I don't know. | = 16 | Q. So are you saying that because Mr. Thomas was i] ; s 171 slow in responding to: inquiries by the station, that that .. = 1} why it took so long to confirm this aspect of his story? | a 19 A. Well, he reported. information that he had heard, | f 20 and then I think that he was not always able to go back | to | . = 21 the source and say, you said such - and such atime this. | p 2) eee give me more information? He didn't want to be DBE 2 "embarrassed by asking for additional information. He had | PR og, no asset. | | 25: Q apparently the sequence of events was approximatel : | | “ALSERSON REFORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32963433 Page 79
27 wea: “taport. 1 as follows: On December 10th Mr. Thomas made his @ 2 about Elena Garro. He was asked to get more specific informa 3 ‘tion and between December 10th and approximately December (44 25th -- this is 1965 ~- he went: back to Elena Garro, talked = 5 to her, personally accompanied her to the hotel where she ; : 6 claims she had stayed, and reported that information back | S 7 to the station, and yet.it wasn't until October of ?66, almo t . 3 a year later, that the FBI confirmed this aspect of her S gi. story. | Do you know why it took that long for the U.S. 2 10. z ade Government in Mexico City to. confirm that? E 12 : A Unless Mr. Scott may. have felt that it wasn't ' = 13 | that important, but the. answer to your question I.don't know. | & 5 14 Qo | How seriously were Elena Garro de Paz's allegations ° 3 15 | taken in Mexico City? | 7 : 16 A | I don't think they were taken .too seriously. | : 17 Q Why not? | | = 18 A. Because she and. her husband was ~~ her ex-husband | b ig | was flighty, and they -- her general reputation was one | 5 20° that she dealt a lot in fantasy. oe | a 21 Q Now, after one aspect of Elena Garro de Paz"s | 5 _ 22 _ story was confirmed, the fact -that she had stayed at the | SERB hotel, did the Agency at that point attempt to do any | | YR 24 . follow-up investigation to confirm other aspects of the 28, story? | ALDERSON BERBORTING COMPANY, INC. | HW 50955 Bocla:32263433 Page 30
23 4 A I don't know... oO 2 Q In other words, it seems that although she may hav 3 been flighty, at least she appears to have been telling the 4 truth about staying at the hotel.immediately after the = 5] assassination. 7 . : 6. A Well, I don't think that the Agency had any assets| = 7 that could be used to confirm the allegations about the . 8° Sylvia Duran having sexual relations with him. = 9. ~ OQ Well, what about. Oswald having “~~ . : of A You know, we used to. work ‘on it--- z 11! Q What about the central allegation*which was co} 3 . we : a 12: that Oswald had been at the party? | = 13° A Pardon. me? | | ef. i Ps = 14 -Q . What about the central allegation that Oswald had | 3 15 been at the party? = 16 A Well, that was another case of where we -- too S 17 much time had gone by. We just could not -- we didn't 3 1g} have any leads to work on, I think. s 19 Q- This was just ‘two years after the assassination 5 20} though. | | at | | ‘Was there a record kept of the Agency's efforts 4 22 to investigate this allegation? Ex | AD Pardon me? 7 | | XS 24 QO. - Was there a record kept of the Agency's efforts | | | | | } . i _ to investigate this allegation? | WW 50955 Bocld: 327769433 - Page 61
29 nN oO. “there and Ist. A 1 iN ia 2 questions 3 4 Q = 8} A S 6) Q s 7 * -. 8 Q = 9) A ea 10; é 114 But if we S ; = 12: = x qo “ 134 al report e qe 14) ' Q = 16) #174) ‘In fact -- 19) 9 = = eet al WE yX, 24 Q 25 prepared? “So that would be her Mexico City file and her file prepared contains a statement that Oswald made his contact i with the embassies on September 26th and October 6th, 1963 probably a typographical error. There would have been a record kept of all the that had gone out. A copy of that should have been in the file, her Mexico station file. And also her 201 file? The 201 file. Well, not -- | At headquarters. Not all of the raw material would have been reported from Mexico to headquarters unless it had some results. asked the Mexicans to help us identify her, a copy of it would have been included in the periodic operation- on the Mexican liaison operations. The history of the Mexico City station which you October 6? Yes. In fact, the records suggest that he was made his contacts from September 27th to October That's what it should: have been.. That was Did you review that report after it had been ALS ERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 309355 Docld:327263433 Page 682 r - . : | | | | | | | | ,
30 you today. You have been very helpful.. 1: A Not’ completely because I wag ‘in the process of a 2 being transferred from one section to another and I was _ 3 held up waiting for that report to be typed, and it hadn't 4 been completely typed when I finally left, but it was my 2 5 understanding that: the draft of that report was to be 3 6. retained. t went over the draft a number of times. | ; 7 QO Do you recall that Oswald made any contacts with | ~ 9! these embassies on: October 6th or September 26th? 3 9 | A No, that would have been a mistake. I think the . 10. dates were the 27th.and lst. | | z nl fe) The first of October. : 12 A And. there would h ave been no material for me = 13 to use for research other than the same material that has - 2 4 been used here. It was the transcripts. | a = 18 QO. Is it possible that Oswald called back on October | 2 6. 6th to find. out whether. he had. obtained a visa? > : So “A If he called back on’ that, we would have had it | = ig {on the transcripts? | | wm pm: ! E 19 Q Do you think -- | | - 20 | OA i'No matter what time of the day or hour, I think, | E41] because they were set up to activate when you call. | 5 od | 9 Do you have any memory of that happening? | SR A No. ee | | | FX 24 Q Miss Goodpasture, I have no further questions of | | | ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY’, ING. WW 50955 Docld: 32263433 Page @3
31 Now, the Committee rules, ifi ERE caséVoFekecutive session hearings, are such that a witness is given five minutes mM to make a statement for the record. This is not an executive} 3 4 session hearing today; this is a deposition, but if you 2 5 would like to make a statement for the record for five minute's z 6 or less, you.are free to do so at this time. | “ 7 A The only thing I would like to say is to thank you . 8 for your patience. , < 9: 6) Well, thank you very much. : 10. A And I hope that there has been clarification, = ll and if there is anything else I can do, I will be willing | = 12 to come back. | a . : ~ 43} Mr. Goldsmith: - Thank you. Thank you very | 24 i ; , : } r = 14] much. | 5 15 | (Whereupon, at 2:37 o'clock p.m., the deposition | = 16 in the above-entitled matter was concluded.) | . 4 s i . = 185 I have read the foregoing pages | wf i j . ! 5 19 through * ’ inclusive, A 20. which contain a correct tran- | = oe ~ 94) script of the answers made by | e : . "92 me to the questions therein i SSE 23]. ‘recorded. | Lee, . 4 . ; . f . eS. 24 Signature is subject to | corrections. 1 | | | HW 50955. Docld:32263433 Page 64
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