Retroit, Michigan January 10, 1964 Dictated by: Robert ¢. Meissner I met Mr. Joseph Verhelle at the Detroit Athletic Club at Mr. Verhelle's request at 11:00 A.M., January 10, 1964. Mr. Verhelle asked me to sit with him in the main xecéption hall -and started the conversation by telling me of some problems that the present Directors of the Public Bank are experiencing as a result of a four-page memorandum which Mr. Verhelle preserited to the Directors yesterday. Thé substance of the matter was that the Public Bank has extended a rather unusual line of credit to a building improvement firm, which manufactures sereen doors and similar items, and is now in trouble financially. Mr. Verhelle has alerted the bank éxaminers, one of whom was visiting Mr. Verhelle in Detroit today having come here from Lansing. I asked Mr. Verhelle if he was going to again take over the mandgemént of the Public Bank, and he stated that he probably would and felt that most of the present Directors would be resigning. He stated that the Directors do not represent the owners of the bank and that he, Verhelle, did. Mr. Verhelle also stated he had arranged for five million dollars of additional equity to be put in the bank and hence-make the bank solvent. I asked him, "Is the money coming from Jimmy?", and he said, "Yes." I said, "Will that be from the Pension Fund?", and he stated, "Yes, it would come through one ef the Pension Funds." I then asked Mr. Verhelle if he had completed the purchase of the bank that he told me he was buying in our telephone conversation last week. He stated that he had. made the purchase and that his sons were making application to move either one of the two banks that they now own to Downtown Detroit. I tried te find out the name of the bank which he has just purchased and was unsuccessful, but he told me that it was down near or in Wyandotte. After Mr. Verhelle and I talked about Hoffa's participation in the new banking operation, I then dsked about Chattanooga. Mr. Verhelle told me that the trial had just recently been moved down there and we discussed Aul UNEC WaT ‘SON uN ~\OOSQ) EI: ad ee SmA TCR | GAD” DoclId: 32310076 Page 5 | + ab
the fact that any trial in Tennessee would be a tough one but that certainly Hoffa would have to win the one in Tennessee if he expected to come through in Chicago. We talked very specifically about the need for a "fix" in Tennessee and subsequently a "fix" in Chicago, and I asked Verhelle whether he still wanted me to try to be of any assistance in Tennessee. He said yea and wanted to know something about what could be done, and we taiked about the fact that if anything were done it would have to be done way at the top of the State, talking specifically about Governor Clements and oné of his personal assistants and the fact that the politicians in Tennessee were very "practical" people. He wanted to know how much money I thought it would cost. “¥ said at least a quarter of a million dollars, and he said getting §2 or $3003000s isono problems He further wanted to know who would handle this,. and I gaid I would simply make an intreduction to someone. He stated he felt Hoffa himeci£ should not handle it, or “no ene who igs specifically a Teamster should handle it, and it should be someone like himself and later talked in texns of he, Joe Verhelle, taking care of the matter on Hoffa's behalé. He stregsed in the conversation the need for not giving my name to Hoffa and maintaining arm's length relationships all along the line. He also was concerned about how he might meet whoever it is that the arrangement would be made with and, on the other hand, stated that, "Well, I know how to handle this sort of thing", and he would arrange a time and place where there wouldn't be public record of their meeting, ete. Then Mr. Verhelle talked about the fact that Jimmy Hoffa was not in Chicago teday, and I think mentioned that he might be here in Detroit, In any case, he specifically. mentioned that two of the negotiators were here in Detroit today and he would meet with one of them and find out when he, Verhelle, should come to Chitage and discuss the Chatta-_ nooga situation with Hoffa and indicated it would be within the next three or four days, that he would call me and arrange to meet with me in Chicago. ‘The negotiator who is an ¢ Sn9- 9029 DoclId: 32310076 Page 6
attorney and a part of the contract negotiating team in Ghicago, lives three doors from Mr. Verhelle in Grosse _ Pointe; and, according to Mr. Verhelle, always knows where- ver Jimny Hoffa is and what he is doing at any time and that this is the way he would arrange the date. At another part in the conversation we talked about the fact that Verhelle would discuss the Chattanooga "fix" with just Hoffa and the. top attorney who is representing Hoffa in Tenneesee, and Verhelle's description of this attorney was that he is aman from this area, this area being Detroit, and in a sentence or two later mentioned the fame Haggerty. I assume this refers back to which of these men is the attorney in charge. Then I talked to Mr. Verhelle about the selfish reason that I personally would have in wanting to help Hoffa, which was to make sure that the Welfare Fund loan for the purchase of the Sinclair Oil Building in Chicago would in fact be approved and stated, on the other hand, that the two didn't necessarily have to tie in together, Then; momentarily, Mr. Verhelle assumed that I meant every~ one on the Welfare Fund Board should know about the "£ix" in Tennessee and we straightened out the fact that these would be private situations, although a favor in one place could be returned in another place. I gave Mr. Verhelle the financial data regarding the Sinclair Oil Building sale, and he stated that he would talk to a couple of men on the committee and would be in a position to move on that matter as soon as he got to Chicago. Mr. Verheile excused himsel£ and upon returning - suggested that we go into lunch, and I opened the luncheon conversation by asking, if he had seen the article in the Cleveland newspaper about Dominick Bartone. He had not seen it and was very interested in knowing on what charge Dominick was being jailed and seemed very “much relieved that it was on a probation violation. He then told me that he, Verhelle, had been told by someone in the Federal offices in Detroit that Bartone could be convicted on income tax violation. Apparently this was someone who either was Af -3- DoclId: 32310076 Page
» ee SE aT CO OT Bee ot oe CR f- a a a member of the Grand Jury or cdnnected with the Grand eeey .He said he knew this to. be a fact, Then, for no reason at ‘all, he told 1 me that he had just recently bought a new house in Grosse Pointe from the builder and resold the house to .Mr. Bufalino, — whom he identified as the head of the Teamster operations in Detroit; and he did this as a favor to Bufalino because of the restrictive sales in the Grosse Pointe area wherein Italians, Negroes, Jews, etc. aré very much discriminated against and he wanted to do Bufalino a favor. He also told me, "You know, there are 15 or 16 of the tep mobsters for the whole country right here in Detroit. They don't do anything here in Detroit but. do things all over the country. Some are pretty close neighbors of mine." verhelle specifically brought up the fact that it seemed inconsistent with Mr. Johnson's political past that he should be making State of the Union speeches that talk in temis of saving money ané cutting down on ‘graft and this sort of thing, and said, "This man of all people to be talking like that." Actually, later at lunch, Verhelle stated that a company that he, Verhelle, either owns or partially owns just get a contract in Washington that over a period of five years will run as high as one billion dollars and this contract did not come from McNamara but was specifically given by Johnsen to Verhel le’ 8 partner in Washington. He called him a man that I've been coaching, or my man that I've been coaching in Washington went dixectly to Johnson and Jehngon gave the contract to us. . I asked Mr. Verhelle whether Triscaro could make Dominick keep quiet. He said, "Heck no", that apparently it took someone much higher up and indicated Triscaro was very ill and that he looks terrible and when he saw him a couple of weeks ago he was hesitant even to ask Triscaro how he felt because hé. Looked so bad. Just in general. conversation - Recently when Hoffa gave a talk to some businessmen (as much as maybe six months ago) he impressed this, group of businessmen, Sn9- S898) DoclId: 32310076 Page &