- AGENCY: RECORD NUMBER: RECORD_SERIES: ORIGINATOR: CIT FROM: TO: TITLE: DATE: PAGES: 26 SUBJECT: DOCUMENT TYPE: ORIGINAL AGENCY FILE _ NUMBER: AGENCY INFORMATION Released under the John . Kennedy FBI kKSsassination Records 124-10144-10133 ollection Act of 1992 DL (44 750 2107 Note). ase#: NW 54462 Date: 1O-O4-2017 89-43-7034, 7035 DOCUMENT INFORMATION. 06/21/1967 SEE FBI 62-109060-5483 PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT NEW 4 1 — CLASSIFICATION: Unclassified CLASSIFICATION: REVIEW DATE: 10/29/1998 UPDATE DATE: 02/09/2001 STATUS Redact RESTRICTIONS: JEK Act 6 (4) COMMENTS: INC 2 CIT RPT HW 54462 DBocld:32161772 Page 1
ee ‘ Sete \ Jhoiiett on October 22, 1944, in Lucedale, Missis sippi. She sta oten es 3 oth 7 ae oN if ‘ e | #9816 = 67 ~ . . -. , June 2}, 1967 | || ARRANGEMENTS: | your request, LILLIE MA E hie MAINES was exarined on the polys graph, a — ection of deception technique wey ttancard polygraph procedure was exercised throughout this examination. [pete , 1967. She was given a Relevant | . | and Irrele rant it type examination fox the purpose e of ascertaining if she possessed oY | any knowledge of an alleged meeting in Dave Ferrie's home wherein thers was —— | ! ver bal ington e relating to a plot to | assassinate the late John F BW. Kennedy Dari ingthe pre-test interview, the Subject stated that she was born Lillis \ popier diced when her younger sister was ‘bora and that she was hot father's cousins, James Moffett, and his wife Ethel. She referred to these people. as her parents. She stated that she was raised near Mobile, Alabama. She said that she does not know whether or not James and Ethel Moffett ever adopted her. ‘ cMaines, aged 38 years ut of an “employment aiurniture mover. Subject stated that she is presently married to Uarold ly She said that he does not have a regular job and wo oifice' in Omaha, Nebraska, as a trucn driver and ay geile a £5 C vr, The Subject stated that ever since she eld enough to understand and remernbe her "mother" constantly tola her that ner Oluer sister Gertrude, who lived in New Orleans, Louisiana, was "a tramp and no good. " She stated that these sta terments We HW 54462 Docld:32161772 Page 2
‘She said that she became pregnant and alter sh UP ‘ Pe at Me \t Page 2 Mr. Hawkins . June 21, 1967 | RE: Lillie Mae McMaines RESULTS (conta): finally caused her to run away frorn home in 1962 and proceed to New Crleans to locate her sister Gertrude. She said that she just had to find out if her sister was really "bad." , : During six hours of interview ana interrogation, the Subject gave the following information regarding her stay in New Orleans, her returmto Mobile, Alabama, hen on to San Bernadino, California, then back to New Orleans, then to Onsaha, Nebraska, and iinglly to Des Moines, lowa. ; jJubject stated t#at when she first went to New Grleans she decided to use the name Sandra Yoifett, She explained that she had been in New Orleans ior approx- — irmsately three/weeks before her sister permitted her to go out "on the tow" by erseli. She said that the first night she went out alone shemet Perr LEO... jhe said that the meeting occurred about 10:30 P.M. as bourbon Street and that Perry Russo, "Ken," Leity Pepérson and "Timmy" were ilso walking along Bourbon Street. She related tha ney passed on the street, Timmy winked at her and she smiled. She continued that they all stopped on the sidewalk and talked. She said that during this conversation, Perry Russo volun- tier f yrevee to drive her home. She continued tha she, Perry Russo, deity, Ken and Timrny all got into Perry's 4 car and wroceedes <i to drive toward her sister's home where she was staying but they stopped on the way ior coffee and gasoline. She said that Perry Russo asked her if she would go to school with him the following morning and she replied te him hat she would go with hirn provided her sister would pern nit her to do so. She continued that Perry Russo stopped by the hofise the folowing morning tut ner sister would not permit her to go with him but Wer sister did agree that she could attend a party that was | being given for f Wynk that night. Ken ¥¥ > Subject stated that that: party was held at a place called the Frenchman's Inn. She said that Perry was supposed to pick her up at §&:00 P.M. but he was late because it was raining hard. She said that she ana Perry arrived at the party at appro> a mately 9:00 P.M. The Subject stated that she and Perry continued to date until the early part of 1963. .@ told Perry that she was pregnant he told her to “get lost" until aiter the baby was born and then she should look hic up again.» HW 54462 “Docld: 32161772 Page 3
' Page 3 ant Mr. Hawkins . June ZI, 1967 a RE: Lillie Mae McMaines RES SULTS (cont! ad): The Subject stated that when she first told Perry Russo that she was pregnant, 7 a man (unknown to her) placed Perry in a hypnotic trance and questioned hirn. She said that while in the trance, Perry acknowledged that he was the father of her yet unborn baby. She said that Perry later denied that he was the father. She went on to explain that she, Perry, and the unknown “hypnotist" (she des- ribed his age as between 40 and £0 years) went toa place called the Royal Castle and, while there, this unknown "hypnotist" again placed Perry ina hypnotic trance. She said that he did not question Perry at this time but 9 pave pie a post-hypnotic suggestion, 'When I snap my fingers you will awaken, get | U A * ’ * * . ~ [~ with him in his home. She said that when she departed his home, a friend of his oif the stool, walk to the door and then return to the stool where you will freeze in your tracks and will be unable te move." She said that when the man snapped nis fingers, Perry opened his eyes, got off the stool, walked to the door and then turned and walked back to the stool. She said that Pe erry. stcod by the stool nd went through what appeared to be attempts at moving his body but he did not. oy actually move. She added that, in her opinion, Perry was faking his inability to : move while standing by the stool. , . . Sabject said that the next time she saw Perry (after telling him that she was . | regnant) was a very short time later and she spent about one-hali hour talking Sy named "Fido" knocked her down on the lawn, hit her in the stomach with hia fist, and made the comment, "Why don't you leave him alone?" She explained that she | reamed loudly when atruck by Fido hoping that Perry would come outside but ; pe did not. She said that Fido went into Perry's home after knocking her down Vy UJ nd striking her. She said that as soon aa she rega ined her sense of direction, ‘she got up and went home. ’ The Subject stated that when she was about three months pregnant, she attempted. suicide by taking 175 aspirin. She said that a girl friend named Kathy found her and took her to the Charity Mospital in New Orleans by taxicab. She said that her stornach was pumped at the hospital and she said that the hospital notifi ee the police departinent but her girl friend Kathy talked the ofiicer out of tak ng her to jail. HW 54462 DBocld:32161772 Page 4
Mr. Hawking 7 June 21, 1967 © . RE: Lillie Mae Mciiaines RESULTS (cont’3): Subject st#ted that when she was about four months pregnant, she married a in Dallas, Texas. She did not tell the circumstances surrounding a a Fe. from Adars. The Subject stated i that when she was between 15 and 16 years of age, her (=e took her to a psychiatrist because she had run away froim home. o She aid that she visited the psychiatrist about four times but she did not know what e reported about her. ubject related that she gave birth prematurely on August 30, 1963. She said that ahe was released from the hospital en September 3re or 4th, 1963. She said that she went to Perry Russo's house the day following her release from the ospital but she did not see ox talk with him again until June or July of 1954, subject then related how Perry Russo photographed her on several occasions while she was engaging in the act of coitus with different men, She explained that Perry had his own dark room and developed the pictures himself. Subject then related that she anda pint named Ana visited her baby in the hospital requently. She further stated that her ‘'parents" came from Alabama to New Orleans and also visited the baby in the hospital. Russo had introduced her to nim). She : said that the two of them a went by bus to her "parents'’ home. She gave her "parents"! addaréss as Box 326 in Eight Mile, Alabama and she said that this town is located near Mobile. — She went on to explain that James Robert Ervin was unable to find employment in Mobile and so he went to New Orleans and obtainéd a job in an establish:nent called Little Crystal Cafe. She said that this establishment is located on Royz} Street in New Orleans. She said that Jimeny worked and stayed in New Cricans during the week and he would hitchhike to her “parenta'’ home in Light Mile, Alabama, over the weekends. . So HW 54462 DoclId:327161772 Page 5
oO > Mr. St awkins 7 ; June 21, 1967 oe RE: Lillie Mae MecMaines od RESULTS (cont ta): Subject stated that she and Jimmy leit Eight Mile in February of 1904 (leaving the baby with her 'mother") and they went to San Dernadino, California, where they stayed with an aunt of hers. She said that from the time she left New . Orleans to go to Eight Mile and then to California, she did not make one trip to New Orleans. . Subject related that she and Jivamy went through a w vedding ceremony in Tiajuana, Mexico, in June of 1964. She continued that Jimmy left her the latter part of Sis same month. She said that the day after Jimmy leit her, she went to New rleans by bus, a (Roviect related that when she arrived in New Orleans, she called Perny Kusso dnd he came to the bus depot and drove her and her personal belongings to his Nome. She said that she spent the night in Perry's apartment and then the foliow- ay Gay she rented a room for herseli. She said that aiter she rented the room, Ugne went job hunting and she met James Robert Ervin onthe street. She said that they decided to live together again. She said. that she did obtaina jobasa barmaid, She said that she and Jimmy lived together for only one week and he feein wall red. out on her. She said that he left on July 3, 1964. - The Subject said that she thea turned to prostitution as a means of supporting herseli and inorder to save up enough money to get her baby back from her mother." She further explained that she gave Perry Rusgo "around a hundred dollars" to keep for hex but he never gave it back to herf She said that on one . ther occasion, she loaned Perry $20.00 to use to pay fis insurance but he did ot repay this money cither. . y The Subject stated that the first time she rnet Daye J part of January of the first part of February of 19% with Perry Russo and he wanted to see Dave Ferrje about something and so the two of them went to ‘Dave's apartment. She said dhat Perry introduced her to Ferric and his two roommates. She said that they stayed at Dave's apartment for only a few minutes and they leit. ‘s .wag in either the latter . She explained that she was HW 54462 Docld:327161772 Page 6
Page 6 Myr, Hawkins . June 21, 1967 - RE: Lillie Mee hMcMaloes RESULTS (cont'd): . Foca daseeesten an Ste ‘sane mania nraee tly The Subject said that the next time she saw Dave Ferrie was less than a week after first meeting him and was ona Sunday. She explained that Dave invited her to his apartment for lunch with hirn and his two roommates, She said that Dave picked her up at her place ina blue Ford station wagon and they arrived at Dave's apartment at approximately 12:30 er 1:00 P.M. She said that she stayed at this apartment until about 5:30 P.M, at which tirne he drove her back to ber L finbiest said that she next saw Dave Ferrie on the following Wednesday or Kharsday when he care by Sam's place where she was employed.. She said that Ihave asked her if she would go out with him the following Friday night. peesect said that on this Friday 1 nigh at, Dave picked her ay at her apartment hee 6:00 or 6130 P.M. and they first proceeded to Dave's apartment where one i Dave's rooramates and his date were waiting. She ‘said the four of them then sent to several places to dance and drink but they did not have dinner. —~ _The Subject emphaticallf denied ever meeting Shaw or Oswald. She said that she Obes, attended a partyAtt Dave Ferrie's house. She stated that she haa never been feotball game buf she did ettend basketball and baseball games with Perry [Russo and Leity Petérson. The Sut dj Vthat Perry Russo was extremely interested in m Pol olit gaid that he was of 4 Republican and a strong advocate and backer The Subject stated that she attended a political mecting with Perry Russo and three cther men but she could not be sure of their names. She related that the . meetin ng was held in a big house on-Canal Street in cither Aprilor May of 1965. / She said that she and three men stayed ina back room of the house ana watched | television. She said that she did not see all of the people at the meeting. She said that che did not hear anyone speaking Spanich nor did she see any Spanish, Cubans , or Puerto Ricans at this meeting. mo , The Subject commented that Lefty Peterson is. "off upstairs s" but is a good guy otherwise, : a a ip -~ =. a? HW 54462 Docld:327161772 Page 7
S . ~ | Page 7 3 ° Mr. Hawkins June 21,- 1967 RE: Lillie Mae Mcliaine RESULTS (c ont): The Subject explained that Perry Russo habitually mage notes about everything. She said that he made notes of things he aad to do, the times he was supposed to be somewherey and places he hadto go. She said that Perry told her he made. notes of evpfything because he was so busy that ne: did not want to forget anything. t explained that on one occasion she went to Pex ry's house and Mikes. was there, She said that Mike told her that he had just found Perry had tried to coramit t bathroom with his wrists all slashed up and that he ay a She said that she then leit and did not see Perry. - The Subject atated that when Perry first introduced her to Jimmy Ervin, he _ Suggested they all go to Jim amy's apartment and he would like to make photographs (ef her and Jims ny engaging in coitus. She said that a girl friend of hers named eannie became very angry with Perry when he rnade this suggestion. She said The subject 6 ated that the most men she ever ‘engaged in sexual intercourse with, one immedia vely following the other, would be two. She said that these were two’ | jymen she hustled when s he was working as a prostitute, She related that she hustled one raan oné night and he went into the bathroom after undressing. She $y said that she locked him in the bathroom, took $120.05 from his pocket and ran -outefthe room. She stated that on one occasion Perry wanted to photograph her a e i alas a ds girl named Kathy engaged ina sex act together but she sald that someone ume in unexpectedly and the act was never consumrnated. T he Subject related that two investigators from District Attorney Garrison's i aa 4g . office came to her home in the middle ofthe nicht cf Merch & 1967, in Ormaha. She said that they requested her Sto leave immediately with them and return to New Orleans for the purpose of looking at some paote graphs. She said that they ( told her that they did net know what the photographs were. She continued that she told them that she could not leave then because she had a coat and other clothing in the cleaners, She eRid that these two men, Simnis and Jonah, told her not to worry---they would buy her some new clothes. She said that they further told her that she would stay in the finest hotels and eat the finest foods. HW 54462 Docld:32161772 Page 6
Me. " Hlawleine a , - 7 | June 21, 1967 . RE: Lillic Mac Mechaines | _ od RESULI fi Ss {cont!d): che continued that her husband (Harold McMaines) spoke up and stated that he did not want to let her go and that he wanted te consult with an attorney. She os gaid that the two lavestigators then offered to buy a ticket for ner husband also. She said that after her husband insisted on talking with an attorney first, he two investigators told her husband not to consult with an attorney because ghe rig ht get hurt if he did and they wanted {9 keep everything quiet. She said é 7 “wee shat they did leave however. The Sub; ect explained that she told this entire story f to a reporter named Ziramermin with th Ae World-Herald in Omaha. She said that after the story ed in print she and her husband both lost thote yobs. She went en-to relate . © reporter Bh immerman teld her that she neeced an attorney ‘and arranged. \fox her to meet attorney Lex Nawkins. | e ve The Subject was givea four separate tests and was asked the following yelovant questions and gave the answers indicated: ‘ Do you have any intention of trying to lie to me during this test? A. No. Have you told me the complete truth since we have been talking? A. Yes. Did you attend the party nt Ferrie's home that Perry claims you attended ? A. No. \ 2. Did you ever meet Shaw? A. Now QM. Are you deliberately trylag . to withhold any information from me regarding the party? A. No. Second Test: Q. Have you | told nie the « omplete truth here today? A. Yes. Q. Did you attend ‘th xe party Perry says you did? A. No. Q. Are you! trying to withhold any inforroation irom me regarding this case? A. No. ‘* HW 54462 Docld:327161772 Page 9
Nr. Hawhins June 21, 1997 . RE: Lillie Mae MeMaines as Q. Did Perry cver tell you that the President was going to be assassinated ? Ai. No, . Lid you go to the party at Dave's house that Perry says you did? A. No. Are you atternpting to protect or cover up for anyone? A. No. i Are you trying to hold back any information from me now? A. No. £ouxth Test: Have you told me the complete truth here today? A. Yes. Would you lic if it wouls help you stay out of jail? A. Yes. Were you ever present when any people talked about assassinating the President? A. No. Is Perry telling the truth about you attending the party? A. Ro. Are you attempting to withbold any iaformation frorn re now? A. No. Have you purposely lied to any of my questions ? A. No. - I ay ; During the first three testa, her polygrams contained reactions to the relevant | question: “Are you trying to withhold or conceal any information from me?" ; Following the third test, she explained that she suspects Perry Russo might. be "a little queer" for Mike Fitzgerald. There was not a reaction to the question | \ n the test following this explanation. ; 7 ' | The Subject was asked by thls examiner why she thought Perry Russo was telling this story. She explained that the last time she saw him, which was in June or. July of 1965, he asked her if she would marry him. She stated that he said that he wanted to marry her so that he wouldn't have to go into the military service. She stated that she told him she would not marry him. She then quoted him seying, "You have got to marry me and help keep me out of the service." She ated that she again told him she would not marry him and then further quoted mas saying, "If you won't marry me, I'll have to find someone else who will." he added that she believes he iz telling this story in an endeavor te avoid going into the milltary aervice. a - wh Gq @ HW 54462 Docld:32161772 Page 10
fe 7 , - ' | , . a | - | oo AN ‘Pare 0 a C a ps a Now! Mr. Hawkins Juae 21, 31967 wm Gr oe E ~ eed eee 2 Me Et & bet Aan re] As a hee Py) — 3 oO Q CONCLUSION: After careful analysis of thie Subject's polygrams, it is the opinion of the examiner that she told substantially the truth during her exarnination and intezsro gation. . =A otey st ES®.s x Res —\ } ‘ vet 3 (as) C ! F ‘y ¢ * ; Lo. . tre ea — ——~ — a oe ence HW 54462 ‘Docld: 32161772 Page 11
# 9816 - 67 ‘June 21, 1967 Les Hawkins, Attorney at Law | 836-642 Fifth Avenue Ses Moines, Iowa She your request, LILLIE MAE NIC MAINES was examined on the polygraph, a cetection of de ception technique. oe Stand dard. polys sraph procedure was ‘exercised throughout this examination. ‘oy ESULTS: [Foret was examined in this office on June 19, 1967. She was given a Relevant ana Irrelevant type examination for the purpose € oi ascertaining if she possessed any knowledge of an alleged meeting in’ Dave Ferrie's home wherein there was | verbal intercourse relating to a plot to assassinate the lete John F. Kennedy. J . During the pre-test interview, the Subject stated that she was bora Lillie Mae olfett on Uctober 22, 1944, in Lucedale, Mississippi. She stated that her real \\fotnex diced when her younger sister was ‘born and that she was raised by one of er father's cousina, James Moffett, and his wiie Ethel. She reierred to these people as her parents. She stated that she was raised near Mobile, Alabama. [She said that she does not know whether or not James and Ethel Moffett ever adopted her. —_ Subject stated that she is presently married to Jarold McMaines, aged 38 years She said that he does not have a regular job and works out of an “employment office" in Gmaha, Nebraska, as a truck driver and as a furniture mover. ‘The Subject stated that ever since she was old enough to understand and remember, her "mother" constantly told her that her oliier sister Gertrude, who lived in New _ Grleans, Louisiana, was "a tramp and ao good." She stated that these statements HW 54462 Docld:32161772 Page 12
Page 2. . | Mr. Hawkins June 21, 1967. - RE: Lillic Mae McMaines RESULTS (cont'd): finally caused her to run away from home in 1962 and proceed to New Orleans to locate her sister Gertrude. She said that she just had to find out if her _ sister was really "bad." During six hours of interview and interrogation, the Subject gave the following ~niormation regarding her stay in New Orleans, her return to Mobile, Alabama, then on to San Bernadino, California, then back to New Orleans, then to Omaha, Nebraska, and finally to Des Moines, Iowa. ubject stated that when she first went to New Orleans she decided to use the | name Sandra Moffett. She explained that she had been in New Orleans for approxe- imately three weeks before her sister permitted her to go out "on the town" by ferseli. She said that the first night she went out alone she met Perry Russo. . She said that the meeting occurred about 10:30 P.M. as she was walking down bourbon Street and that Perry Russo, "Ken," Lefty Peterson and "Timmy" were Also. walking along Bourbon Strect. She related that as they passed on the street, Timmy winked at her and she smiled. She continued that they all stopped on the sidewalk and talked. She said that during this conversation, Perry Russo volun- eered to drive her home. . She continued that she, Perry Russo, lefty, Kea and Timmy all got into Perry's car and proceeded to drive toward her sister's home where she was staying but they stopped on the way ior coffee and gasoline. She said that Perry Russo asked her if she would go to school with him the following morning and she replied to him hat she would go with him provided her sister would permit her to do so. i : . /She continued that Perry Russo stopped by the house the following morning but ier sister would not permit hex to go with him but her sister did agree that she could lattend a party that was being given for Ken Wink that night. a Subject stated that that party was held at a place called the Frenchman's Inn. She said that Perry was supposed to pick her up at 8:60 P.M. but he was late because it was raining hard. She said that she and Perry arrived at the party at appro~i- mately 9:00 P.M. , The Subject stated that she and Perry continued to cate until the carly part of 1943. : fe} ‘ vs : * 2 _ She said that she became pregnant and alter she told Perry that che was pregnant * he told her to "get lost" until aiter the baby was born and then she should look him. ‘ » @p again. - 54462 Docld:32161772 Page 13
Page 3 7 Mr, Hawkins ; June 21, 1967 | 7 RE: Lillic Mae McMaines ESULTS (cont'd): The Subject stated that when she first told Perry Russo that she was pregnant, a man (unknown to her) placed Perry in a hypnotic trance and questioned hirn. She said that. while in the trance, Perry acknowledged that he was the father of her yet unborn baby. She said that Perry later denied that he was the father. She went on to explain that she, Perry, and the unknown “hypnotist” (she des- -vibed his age as between 40 and 50 years) went to a place called the Royal Castle and, while there, this unknown "hypnotist" again placed Perry ina hypnotic trance. She said that he did not question Perry at this time but gave sim a post~hypnotic suggestion, "When I snap my fingers you will a vaken, get oif the stool, walk to the door and then return to the stool where you will freeze in your tracks and will be unable to.move." She said that when the man snapped luis fingers, Perry opened his eyes, got off the stool, walked to the door and then tarned and walked back to the stool. She said that Perry stood by the stool pe went through what appeared to be attempts at moving his body but he did not actually move. She added that, in her opinion, Perry. was faking his inability to move while standing by the stool. : Subject said that the next time she saw Perry (after telling him that she was B regnant) was a very short time later and she spent about one-hali hour talking | (“with him in his home. She said that when she departed his home, a friend of his | named "Fido" knocked her cown on the lawn, hit her in the stomach with his fist, and made the comment, "Why don't you leave him alone ?'' She explained that she ; sereamed loudly when struck by Fido hoping that Perry would. come outside but a pe did not. She said that Fido went into Perry's home aiter knocking her down . Vi nd striking her. She said that as soon as she re gained her sense of direction, she got up and went home. - The Subject ¢ stated that when she was about three months pregnant, she attenipted suicide by taking 175 aspirin. She said that a girl friend named Kathy found her and took her to the Charity Hospital in New Grleans by taxicab. She said that her stomach was pumped at the hospital and she said that the hospital notified the police department but her girl friend Kathy talked the officer out of taking her te : jail. a a a tt > —_ aac e 544627 - Docld: 32161772 Page 14.
.- C oN Page 4 Mr. Hawkins ON . June 21, 1967 | a RE: Lillie Mae McMaines RESUL TS. (cont'd): Subject s stated that when she was about four months pregnant, she married a Frank Adams in Dallas, Texas. She did not tell the circumstances surrounding - a divorce from Adams. , The. Subject stated that when she was between 15 and 16 years of age, her Nimotner' took her to a psychiatry ist because she had run away from home. She Jaid that she visited the psychiatrist about four times but she did not know, what he reported about her. . ubject related that she gave birth prematurely on August 30, 1963. She said at she was released frorn the > hospital on September 3rd or 4th, 1963. She said that she went to Perry Russo's house the day following her release from the hospital but she did not see or "tall with him again until June or July of 1964. Subject then related how Perry Russo photogr aphed her on several occasions while she was engaging in the act of coitus with difierent men, She explained that Perry hed his owa dark room and developed the pictures himself. Subject then related that she anda girl named Ann visited her baby in the hospital frequently. She further stated that her "parents" came from Alabama to New Orleans and also visited the baby in the hospital ubject continued that her baby was reles sed from the hospital on September 20, 190, and on this same date she left New. Crleans with a James Robert Ervin Russo had introduced her to him). She said that the two of them and the baby went by bus to her ‘parents’ home. She gave her “parents” address as Box 326 in Eight Mile, Alabama and she said that this-town is located near Mobile. She went on to explain that James Robert Ervin was unable to finc employz rent in Mobile and so he went to New Orleans and obtained a job in an estabdlisnmment called Little Crystal Cafe. She said that this establishment is located on Roysl . Street in New Orleans. She said that Jimmy worked and stayed in New Orleans during the week and he would hitchhike to her "parents" home in Eignt Mile, Alabama, over the weekends. ‘ oe . HW 54462 Docld:32161772 Page 15
Mae Hawkins . a | a | 7 ae June 21, 1967 RE: Lillie Mae McMaines . ReSuLTS (cont's } Subject stated that she and Jimmy leit Wight d Ajie-in February of 1964 (leaving the baby with her "mother") and they went to San Gernadino, California, where they stayed with an aunt of hers. She said that from the time she left New . Orleans to go to Eight ile and then to California, she did not make one trip to New Orleans. - _ abject related that she and Jiramy went through a wedding ceremony in Tiajuana, Mexico, in June of 1964. She continued that Jinwry left her the latter part of this same month. She said th at the day after Jimmy left her, she went to New > frleans by bus. . : Subject related that when she arrived in New Orleans, she called Perry Russo 4nd he came to the bus cepot and drove her and her personal belongings to his ne. She said that she spent the night in Perry's apartment and then the foliow- mig Gay she rented a room for herseli. She said that aiter ashe rented the roorn, Usne went job hunting and she met James Robert Ervin ona the street. She ste that they decided to live together again. She said that she cid obtaina job as barmaid, She said that she and Jimmy lived together for only one week and he Bi gain walked out on her. She said that he left on July 3, 1964. The Subject said that she then turned to prostitution aa a rneans of supporting herself and incorder to save up enough monsy to get her baby back from her "mother." She iurther explained that she gave Perry Russo “syound a hundred dollars" to keep for her but he never gave it back to her. She said that on one ther occasion, she loaned Perry $20. GO to use to pey his insurance but he did. ot repay this money either. The Subject stated that the first time she reet Dave Ferrie was in either the latter part of January of the first part of February of 1965. She explained that she was with Perry Russo and he wanted to see Dave Ferrie about something and so the two of them went to Dave's apartment. She said that Perry introduced her to | Ferrie and hia two roommates, She said that they stayed af Da ve's apartment - for only a few minutes pand they lett. HW 54462 Docld:32161772 Page 16 a = a es senate eS os ce
Mr. Hawkins June 21, 1967 oe "URE Lillie Mae Mehaines “RESI ESULTS Acontta}s Uys The Subject said that the next time she saw Dave Ferrie was legs than a we 20k after first meeting him and was ona Sunday. She explained that Dave invited her to his apartment for luach with hirn and his two roommietes. She said that Dave picked her up at her place ina blue Ford station wagon and they arrived at Dave's apartment at approximately 12:30 or 1:00 P.M. She said that she stayed ut this apartment until about 5:30 P.M. at which time he drove her back to her Subject said that she next saw Dave Ferrie on the following Wednesday or Phursday when he came oy Saz m! s place where she was employed. She gaid that Dave asked her if she would go out with him the following Friday night. Subject said that on this ene me night, Dave picked her up at her apartment dbout 6:00 or 6:30 P.M. a rey first proceeded to Dave's apartment where one 'Dayets roommates and his date were waiting. She said the four of them then lt i a Jyvent to several places to dance > and drink but they did not have dinner. ihe Subject ernphatically denied ever meeting Shaw or Oswald. She said that she | jpeves attended a party at Dave Ferrie's house. She stated that she hac never been a football game but she did attend basketball and baseball games with Perry Russo and Lefty Peterson. The Subject stated that Perry Russo was extremely interested in politics. She said that he was a Republican and a streng advocate and backer of Goldwe ater. The Subject stated that she attended a political meeting with Perry Russo and | three other men but she could not be sure of their names. She related that the meeting was held in a big house on Canal Street in either Aprilor May of 1965. ! She said that she and three men tayed ina back rodm of the house and watched -television. She said that she did not see all of the people et the meeting. She said om that she did not hear anyone speaking Spanish nor did she see any Spanish, Cubans oy Puerto Ricans at this mecting. — , . The Subject, commented that Lefty Peterson is "off upstairs" but is a goo od guy otherwise : HW 54462 DoclId:327161772 Page 17. Se St = tne
. Mr Hawkins | | . June 21, 1907 - RE: Lillic Mae McMaines . RESULTS (cont'd): The Subject explained that Perry Russo habitually made notes about everything. She saic that he made notes of things he had to dc, the times he was supposed to be. somewhere, and places he had te go. She said that Perry told her hé rnade notes of everything because he was so busy that. he cid not want to forget anything. ae Le “itngorald was there. She said that Mike told her that he had just found Perry inthe bathroors with his wrists all slashed up and that he had tried to coramit \Oneuee She said that she then left and did not see Perry. \ The Subj ct en aAined that on one occasion she want to Perry's house and 3 aut & pl Se Subject stated that when Perry first introduced her to Jimmy Urvin, he | suggested they all so to Jimmy's apartment ani he would like to make photographs f her and Jimmy engaging in coitus. She said that a girl friend of hers named an Jeannie became very angry with Perry when he made this suggestion. She said they did not go. a The Subject stated that the most men she ever engaged in sexual intercourse with, _ one immediately following the other, would be two. She said that these were two _ | [r) men she hustled when she was working ag a prostitute. She related that she . Bs ustled one raan one night and he went into the bathroom after undressing. [~ said that she locked him in the bathroom, took $120. "00 from his pocket and ran out of the room. She stated that on one occasion Perry wanted to photograph her and 4 girl named Kathy engaged ina sex act together bat she said that someone | came in unexpectedly | and the act wag never consummated. She | | | i Lu | { The Subject related that two investigators from District Attorney Garrison's office came to her home in the rniddle o/ the night of Merch 8, 1967, in Omaha. She said that they requested her to leave immediately with therm and return to New Orleans for the purpose of looking at some photographs. She said that they. told her that they did not know what the photographs. were. She continued that she told them that she could not leave then because she had 2 ceat and other clothing inthe cleaners. She said that these two men, Simmis and Jonah, told her nat to -worsyee-they would buy her some new clothes. She said that they further told he that she would stay in the finest hotels and eat the finest foods. HW 54462 DocId:32161772 Page 16
viv. “Hawkins . June 21, 1967 7 RE; Lillie Mae McMaines RESULTS (cont'd): Ce 5 She continued that her husband (Harold McMaines) spoke up and stated that he cid not want-to let her ge ang that he wanted to consult with an attorney. She said that the two inve tigators then offered to-buy a ticket for her husband also. She said that aiter her husband insisted on talking with an attorney first, tne two investigators told her husband not to consult with an attorney because ghe rnaight get hurt if he did and they wanted to keep everything quiet. She said ssf “that they did leave however. The Subject explained that she told this entire story to a reporter named Zimmerman with the World-Herald in Omaha. She ssid that after the story 4, ak AapE din ovint he and that the reporter Zimmerman told her that she needed an attorney and arrang t atto rosy Lex Hawkins. . ubject was given four separate tests 7 and was asked the following relevant questions and gave the answers indicated De you have any intention of trying to lie to me du uring this test? A. No. liave you told me the complocte truth since we have been talking? A. Yes. Did you attend the party st Fervie's home that Perry claims you attended ? A. N . . Did you ever meet Shaw? A. No. Q. Are you deliberately trying to withhold any infoxmiation from me regarding a the party? A. No. Second Test: Q.. Have you told me the complete truth here toda. Q. Did you attend the party Perry says yo a die? A. Mo. QO. Are you trying to withhold any information irom me regarding this case? A. No. , oO HW 54462 ‘Docld:32161772 Page 19. ner husband beth lost their jobs. She went on to relate.
Ma. - dawkins oo oo, June 21, 1987 © oS RE: Lillie iviae Me Maine te: ~ ELSULTS (cont'd): . Se vos - . . Third Test: @. Did you le to Mr. Hawhkias at all? A. Yes. . Dic Perry ever tell you that the President was going to be assassinated? A. Ne, 7 _ - (Me: Gid you go to the party at Dave's house that Perry says you did? A. No. te are you attempting to protect oy cover up for anyone? A. No. Se e you trying to hold hack any information from me now? A. No. VA GUSth Test: Ce aE nN Sem re Have you told me the complete truth here tod day ?7 A. Yes. i Would you lie if it would help you stay out of jail? A. Yes. ). Were you ever present when any people talked about assassinating the President? A. No. . J. Is Perry telling the truth about you attending the party ¢ A. Wo. 2. Are you attempting to withhold any laformation from rne now? A. No. ~Q. Have you purposely lied to any of my questions? A. No. During the first three tests, her polygrams contained reactions to the relevant question: “Are you trying to withhold or conceal any information from me?" Following the third test, she explained that she suspects’ Perry Russo might be "a little queer" for Mike Fitzgerald. There was not a reaction to the question fe the test following this explanation, coo ‘ lene Subject was asked by this examiner why she thought Perry Russo was telling this story. She explained that the last time she saw him, which waa July of 1965, he asked her if she would marry him. She stated that he said that. he wanted to marry her so that he wouldn't have to go into the military service. She stated that she told him she w Would not marry din. She then quoted f saying, "You have got to marry me and nelp keep me out of the service." She stated that she again told him she would not marry him and then further quoted him ag saying, Vif you won't marry me, I'l have to find someone else who will. 12mm as tt She added that she believes he is telling this story in an endeavor to avoid going. « into the rflitary aervice. | HW 54462 Docld:327161772 Page 20 %
On June 22, 1967, L. H. Hayrelson, in a telephone conversation with a con- fidential source in New Orléans, Louisiana, obtained the following iniormation with regard to Perry Rusfo. , This informant, who ip well known to L.H.H. and who is a polygraph examiner having been trained afthe Keeler Polygraph Institute, stated that Perry Russo was | xaniined by another polygraph examiner with the Sheriff's Office in New Orleans 4nd that he had heard that the Sheriff's Office examiner stated that Russo was lying regarding the story of the plot to assassinate the late John F. Kennedy. _~, | this informant also advised L.H.H. that Perry Russo had been subjected to larco-interrogation, using sodium pentathol and that he had further been subjected ; bp hypno-interrogation. He stated that a local psychiatrist subsequently blasted \L istrict Attorney Garrison for using these two techniques and suggested that Russo should be examined on the polygraph which should be more reliable. This informant rapiates that he received a call requesting him to examine Russo in regard to his | btory. te stated that he was told that Russo wanted to meet him first to see what — | —kind of a person he was. iI He stated that he made an appointment and met Russo for the first time Friday, ; _ June 16, 1967. He stated that at this time he talked for a while and Russo requested © st that he be given a trial run on the polygraph and that he wanted to be asked 10 or 20 . \ fi estions and intended to lie to some of them to see if thé examiner could detect \4 . The source stated that he instead had Russe write down ‘a number ona piece of ~ : \ aper and place it in his pocket. He ‘stated that he then made Russo a bet of $5.00 hat he could pick out the number. He further stated that Russo called the bet, the “test was run and the examiner picked out the number. . SO | | He stated that Russo appeared in his office on June 19, 1967 to be examined in re- gard to his story reporting the plot to assassinate the late John F. Kennedy. He stated that he attempted to exarnine Russo but that hisPneumo tracing (breathing) was so erratic that he reported to D.A. Garrison that he felt Russo was an unti - subject for polygraph testing at this time. He further stated that he did-talk with Russo about his tracing and explained to him that he obviously had something “bothering him. He stated Russo told him that he told the stery in court pecause he “was getting so much pressure from D.A. Garrison and also NBC. He Atated that | ‘Russo further made the statement to him that he did not know if Clay haw was, »: present at the meeting or not. Ife stated that Russo added that if he/had to say OE "yes" or "no" that he would have to say "no" that Clay Shaw was not-present. \ : . asain se aoe we ee Sa aad ‘ . HW 54462 DoclId:32161772 Page 22.
peor This examiner stated that he asked Russo why he went into court and under oath stated that Shaw was present at the alleged meeting. He stated that Russo replied that he fully intended to go into court and: testify that he did not know if Shaw was present or not but became angered by Shaw's attorney's question, ''Do you believe in God" and afterwards did testify that Shaw was definitely present. This informant stated that Russo admitted having undergone psychiatric treatment for one and one-half years, He stated that Russo admitted to homosexual acts. his informant stated that he fully believes that he would have been able to break Russo had he continued. He stated that after giving a verbal report to Mr. Garrison . that Mr. Garrison told him in no uncértain terms to keep his mouth shut and not to gay anything about the test or what Russo said. This informant further stated that is official written report to Mr. Garrison is going to indicate that in his opinion Russo was an unfit subject on Monday, June 19, 1967. (he The erratic breathing pattern that was described by this informant can indicate claustrophobia, however, in all of the experience that I have had in conducting iolygraph examinations, an erratic breathing pattern a asa general gule is an indica- tion that the subject is being deceptive. mad HW 54462 Docld:32161772 Page 23
| On June 22, 1967, L. H. Harrelson, ina telephone conversation with a con~ fidential source in New Orleans, Louisiana, obtained the following ‘information with regard to Perry Russo. This informant, who is well known to L.H.H. and who is a polygraph examiner © || having been trained at the Keeler Polygraph Institute, stated that Perry Russo was Sxamined by another polygraph examiner with the Sheriff's Office in New Orleans “and that he had heard that the Sheriff's Office examiner stated that Russo was lying regarding the story of the plot to assassinate the late John F. Kennedy. (( this informant also advised L. HH. that Perry Russo had been subjected to arco~interropation, using sodium pentathol and that he had further been subjected hypno-interrogation. He stated that a local psychiatrist subsequently blasted | istrict Attorney Garrison for using these two techniques and suggested that Russo should be examined on the polygraph which should be more reliable. This informant “stated that he received a call requesting him to examine Russo in regard to his roxy. He stated that he was told that Russo. wanted to meet him first to see what kind of a person he was. , | He stated that he made an appointment and rnet Russo for the first time Friday, June 16, 1967. He stated that at this time he talked for a while and Russo requested | . he. he be given a trial run on the polygraph and that he wanted to be asked 10 or 20 juestions and intended to lie to some of them to see if the examiner could detect \Vit. The source stated that he instead had Russe write down a number on a piece of aper and place it in his pocket. He stated that he then made Russo a bet of $5.00. hat he could pick out the number. He further stated that Russo called the bet, the test was run and the examiner picked out the number. an a, He stated that Russo appeared in his office on June 19, 1967 to be examined ia re- gard to his story reporting the plot to assassinate the late John F. Kennedy. He stated that he attempted to examine Russo but that hisPneumo tracing (breathing) was s0 erratic that he reported to D.A. Garrison that he felt Russo was an untit: subject for polygraph testing at this time. He further stated that he did talk with Russo about his tracing and explained to him that he obviously had something bothering him. He stated Russo told him that he told the story in court because he was getting so much pressure from D.A. Garrison and also NBC. He stated that “Russo further made the statement to him that he did not know if Clay Shaw was ‘present at.the meeting or not. He stated that Russo added that if he had to say "yes" or "no" that he would have to say "no" that Clay Shaw was not presant. HW 54462 Docld:327161772 Page 24
Page 2 _This examiner stated that he asked Russo why he went into court and under oath stated that Shaw was present at the alleged meeting. He stated that Russo replied that he fully intended to go into court and testify that he did not know if Shaw was present or not but became angered by Shaw's attorney's question, "Do you believe in God" and afterwards did testify that Shaw was definitely present. _ This informant stated that Russo admitted having undergone psychiatric treatment for one and one-half years. He stated that Russo admitted to homosexual acts. his informant stated that he fully believes that he would have been able to break Lusso had he continued. He stated that after giving a verbal report to Mr. Garrison | that Mr. Garrison told him in no uncertain terms to keep his mouth shut and not to gay anything about the test or what Russo said. This informant further stated that is official written report to Mr. Garrison is going to indicate that in his opinion Russo was an unfit subject on Monday, June 19, 1967. , z—_) OTE: E The erratic breathing pattern that was described by this informant can indicate claustrophobia, however, in all of the experience that I have had in conducting - poly graph examinations, an erratic breathing pattern as a general gule is an indica- Hon that the sub ject is being deceptive. | mad . 7 . . : : . eo — : en see ee sit cn a me ii on eee ce ba te . : HW 54462 Docld:327161772 Page 25