JFK Assassination System Date: 10/6/201 Identification Form Agency Information AGENCY: HSCA RECORD NUMBER:  180-10109-10342 RECORD SERIES: NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILENUMBER: 014214 Document Information ORIGINATOR: HSCA FROM: BLAKEY, G. ROBERT TO: TITLE : DATE: 12/12/1978 PAGES: 54 SUBJECTS : MULE, PETER OSWALD, LEE HARVEY; POST RUSSIAN PERIOD; RESIDENCES VINCENT, HAROLD SHAW, CLAY RUBY, JACK DOCUMENT TYPE: SUMMARY CLASSIFICATION: Unclassified RESTRICTIONS: Consulted CURRENT STATUS: Withhold DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 08/10/1993 OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS: Box 252. v9.1 1 HW 50529 DocId:32263247 Page’1
PREYER, N.C. SAMI it. WALTER §. FAUNTROY, D.C. STEW. B. MCKINNEY, CONN. YVONNE BRATHWAITE BURKE, CALIF. » CHARLES CHRISTOPHER J, DODD, CONM. * HAROLD S. SAWYER, MICH. FLOYD J. PYPiiAn, IND. | Select Conunittee on Assassinations ‘ - oy oom ams  - GHB. Bouse of Representatives 8369 HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, ANNEX 2__ WASHINGTON, D.C. 20515 " December 26, 1978 an The Honorable Griffin B. Bell Attorney General of the United States Department of Justice Washington, D. C. 20530. Attention: Mr. Robert L. Keuch . Deputy Assistant Attorney General Criminal Division, Room 2113 Dear Mr. Attorney General: In further reference to my letter dated today, Decem- ber 26, 1978, the Select Committee also requests any and all information concerning the following individuals: ” Harold Joseph: Vincent, FBI No. 560 761 F Peter Mule, FBI No. 572 281 F It is my understanding that this confirms an oral communication. There may also be another letter in the mail requesting this same information. Thank you for your assistance. bh od.. . fa tts fal Beal. Chief Counsel and Director GRB:dm , [(-3-7E last wel, FRI Reo moti i & urns bot K Necteed & 1463 HW 30529 Docld:32263247 Page 2 | Gos cc: Ron Heller
Rec stone & G!&so Sint of Tonisians DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION Witilam J. Guste, JR. stot R ris 1885 WOODDALE BLVD. ATTORNEY GENERAL B 1d SUITE 1010 HW 50529 70806 December 15, 1978 , ie S. A. John T. McCarthy FBI Headquarters Ninth and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.E. Washington, D. C. 20535 Re: Inmate Harold J. Vincent, PMB #73128 Louisiana State Penitentiary Dear Sir: Pursuant to our conversation on December 14, 1978, in Washington, D. C., I am forwarding with this letter two (2) tapes reflecting an interview with the captioned subject, by two (2) of my Investigators, Glen Bullard and Al Millican. I am also enclosing a memorandum from Investigator Bullard, to Chief Investigator Ruggiero, explaining how this interview developed, and all pertinent rap sheets in our possession. If we can be of any further assistance to the Bureau or the House Assassinations Committee please contact us. Walter L. Smith, 2f. Chief, Criminal Division Louisiana Department of Justice WLS: ams Enclosures Docld: 3227632747 Page 3
‘STATE OF LOUISIANA | DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE =. oe CRIMINAL DIVISION — a | ~ LY | INTELLIGENCE. he an -DATE! - December 15, 1978 7 FILE NO# 36-004 TO: A. G. RUGGIERO, CHIEF INVESTIGATOR” FROM; GLEN BULLARD, INVESTIGATOR : RE:,” ‘TAPE RECORDED STATEMENT OF snnOmD: yincewe pan < F “ ‘December ll, ‘1978, Investigators BULLARD and MILLICAN contacted - inmate. HAROLD J. VINCENT for an interview regarding allegations | of inmate abuse at Angola.(file #5- ~005), and which VINCENT might “have firsthand knowledge of. Yee a . . During the interview, VINCENT made numerous ‘statements alledging acts of violence upon prisoners by guards. VINCENT. also advised. Investigators he possessed firsthand NaDYE (Bed about, the assassinations aos: ee fentrace - Hace Fd " murder" arr§ Information*¥ecfived from Linter About the inmate abuse was. .placed in a report filed in case file #5-005.. Statements regarding the assassination and "contract murder" were classified . as STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL, NOT TO BE DISSEMINATED, and were not placed therein. As VINCENT led Investigators to believe he would. speak freely regarding the assassination and contract murder, Investigators returned to Baton Rouge and advised Chief Investigator RUGGIERO of the situation. It was subsequently decided Investigators BULLARD and MILLICAN ‘would return the following day, December 12, 1978 and completely debreif VINCENT regarding any information he might possess. . The interview . was .to be tape recorded. ‘ December 12, 1978, VINCENT was debriefed, and VINCENT was. cooperative. VINCENT did request he be transferred to a "protection status" and was advised if the information he ‘provided was found to be truthful, the necessary arrangements would be made. eo . The tape recorded interview of VINCENT is attached hereto, _ with all related documents to be placed. in the safe. ’ WW 50529 Docld: 32263247 Page 4
IAG he bop tas dem“, YOY STATE OF LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY ee ' DIVISION OF STATE FoLICE-OUISIANA STATE pati CRIMINA rane pNess BUREAU OF IDENTIFICATION, van Le RECORDS UN(BA| eiic. NST bs Fe BATON ROUGE The following is the record of State Police No. 594 28) Jot, Lous F.B.1. No. 560 74 E . 7A BIRD Epc LA. PEM FILE TF OR TANT NOTICE DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION OBTAINED FROM LOUISIANA STATE POLICE NO). J 3S —/ ¥ RAP SHEET AND LOUISIANA STATE POLICE CRIMINAL RECORDS FILES TO OE RE ~ RSE 8 AGENCIES OTHER THAN CRIMINAL JUSTICE AGENCIES IS NOT AUTHORIZED BY THE STATE POLICE AND THAT PERSON AND AGENCY MAKING SUCH DIS- SEMINATION MUST ASSUME FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY UNAUTHORIZED DISSEMINATION. — _———————————————== pe  —————————— CONTRIBUTOR ARREST OR RECEIVED OF FINGERPRINTS NAME AND NUMBER CHARGE DISPOSITION SO Lake Charles, La. | Harold Joseph Vincent 9-20-67 | ST (theft) SPOL Leesville, La. | Harold J. Vincent 2-12-68 auto theft #— SO Lake Charles; La. | Harold Joseph Vincent 31-68 | auto theft - #SO 83800 SPen Angola; La. Harold Joseph Vincei tT : -  . | 2 yrs. disch. 2-6-70 Caleasieu Parish #66383 - att. rape, agg. ~. assault; & unauth. meee Since neither fingerprints nor call identifying number which Is in SO Lake Charles, La. | Harold Joseph Vincent’ 9-4-70 #S0 83800 dexcd eT eour - resi: re a Loot av tifictioee Pee an manner dpi Gia ower Galiers the indivglual in whom you av interested ‘For completion of our records, please supply disposition to this Department in any of the foregoing cases where it does not appear. * DPSsP 3709 * Represents notations unsupported by fingerprints. HW,,J0529 Docld:32263247 Page 5
The following is the record of Stote Police No. 594 281 F.B.1.No. 560 741 F STATE OF LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY DIVISION OF STATE POLICE BUREAU OF !DENTIFIGATION BATON ROUGE ‘ a tat CRTANT NOTICE DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION OBTAINED FROM LOUISIANA STATE POLICE RAP SHEET AND LOUISIANA STATE POLICE CRIMINAL RECORDS FILES TO AGENCIES OTHER THAN CRIMINAL JUSTICE AGENCIES IS NOT AUTHORIZED BY THE STATE POLICE AND THAT PERSON AND AGENCY MAKING SUCH DIS- SEMINATION MUST ASSUME FULL RESPONSIBIL: TY FOR ANY UNAUTHORIZED DISSEMINATION. CONTRIBUTOR OF FINGERPRINTS SO Lake Charles, La. SO Las Cruces, NMex. PD Las Cruces, NMex. SO Leesville, La. SO Lake Charles, La. SPen Angola, La. Calcasieu Parish = ———————EEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeeEeeeEeeE=E=sE=S=S=S=SQQNNNQII[L[]T]NaeESESESES=S=]—eEe—E={—eEeEeEq5_=—={_——SEaES=ES=ES=a]’_E=E=E=E=E=__a_EE=E=anRaeG6_o3O305050OuESu—eesee— LOUISIANA Stare CRIMINAL RECORDS Une BATON arine pan, cine ——————— —= UMBER ARREST OR NAME ANON E RECEIVED CHARGE DISPOSITION tt 12-9-70 | age. assault Harold Joseph Vincey : Harold Joseph Vince} 3-71 #71-9210 fug. from la. Ist. degree murder . Poss. stin. prop.. Smee neither fingeyprints nor om identifying. number] which is in- _ dexed in our files acc Pmpanied your i manner ‘that this m evial concerns ‘the individual in whom you are inzerested. ; Stes Harold Joseph Vince t9-9-71 murder . Harold Joseph Vinceht 44-72 armed robbery 15 yrs. 2 For completion of our records, please supply disposition to this Department in any of the foregoing cases where it does not appear. * Represents notations unsupported by fingerprints. , OPSSP 3709 nw F529 DocId: 32263247 _ Page _6 an Re ene Ee SE He ete cee ag me eter ae etn ee ee
STATE OF LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY . DIVISION. OF STATE POLICE BUREAU OF IDENTIFICATION ; 7 - BATON ROUGE | oo UISIANA STATE POLicgy The following is the record of State Police No.....- _ ah esccecvrecnenee . OR CUSE, LOUISIANA F. B.I. No. 560 741 F CONTRIBUTOR ARREST OR WANTED: Harold Vincent for Auto theft warr|, iss. 8-30-71 Notify SO LAke Charles La.| inf. rec. 9-1-71| in custody per print No. 83800 So Lake Charles,La. dance neither fijgerprinis nor & identifying number which is in- dexed in cur dlesfccomipane ! your request, Tauisingp slureau of iden- tification cannot {guarantee in any manner thet this| material concerns the individual ip. whom vou are interesred. Cerernretmannes wero maaet alee ae Fatal NONE ot  DEMIT EM Wy NOTICE DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION QSTAINED FROM LOUISIANA; STATE POLICE RAP SHEETS AND LOU« SIANA ATE. POLICE CREIUINSL RECORDS FILES .TO AGENCIES OTHER THAN CRIP PAL JUSTICE AGENCIcS] iS NOT AUTHOR =D BY THE STATE POLICE ARD THAT PERSON AND AGSHCY LAKING w SUCH DISBE..INATION MUST ASSUME FULL RSs PONSIBiLI - FOR ANY UNAUTHORIZED DISSEMB _ NATION. ; sss For completion of our records, please supply disposition to this Department in any of the foregoing cases where it does not appear. * Represents notations unsupported by fingerprints. 0 : OPS 1142: HW 50529 Docld:32263247 Page Fe ne
: . - ’ = -? cot - ‘ = cane vot ' - . ry : . . oo _— oc te de . ween et ee lee mnt g : et” ne Rae TE ae - DISSEMYNATION OF INFORMATION O3TAIMED FROM SIAN TAT TE CU CINAL Recon: LEAVE THIS SPACE Mak] ATE POLICE Cul INAL RECCRDS FILES ; . _ CIES OTHER THAN CRIOH'AL JUSTICE ~ sc ¥INCENT HAROLD JOSEPH AGENCIES 1S NOT AUTHORIZED SY THE STATE NAME LAST. First - ——IDBLE, POLTOE AT PERSO FROSTY WAL TNG aLias ae P ‘SUCH: DISSE. (ATION MUST ASSUME FULL RES a W M PONSIBILITY FOR ANY UNAUTHORIZED DISSEMIs No. 71 Race__" sesex_ ™ —sé«SNNAATF|ON.. RIGHT HAND UEINDEX FINGER] So MIDDLE FinceR | & RING FINGER | 5 LITTLE FINGER - i] ‘war Bro eves. Blue neiont 5-6 wero t TAZ nce 22 ate oF aiRTHELE AD - LSP NO. 73128 note FBI NO. 560 741 FP , PRISONER’S SIGNATURE os FINGERPRINTS TAKEN BY: | DATE PRINTS TAKEN PRNGr —— 2 tf. GRESIAM | ey i; 4 = \ : ~_ ; : i iF rat! MAE: 3 | ow. P tS OUR FINGERS TAKEN SIMULTANEOUSLY FOUR FINGERS ET mutTaNeousiy 3 MAPR ig) MiSda ay + . ve bh, b 4 x i a et ivy : — ee, t_ Lonisiana ureaa i . . oe 1 * . io — : ot tifcaLion CaBnOL guay ante: a : ‘manner that this materia". ~ <= “the individual inwhom 2%. : interested. HW 50529 Docld:32263247 Page 8 Se ae COE
, ~ ‘ ms: f IDENTIFICATION AND CRIMINAL RECORDS DIVISION LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY Dos mer wee BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA a LOUISIAMA & BPAY: 2 PENVPENTESR RECORD FROM aide its, FAST AR A ADDRESS Arsisd Robbery DATE OF ARREST TLS “72 cHaRGE DISPOSITION Fifteen (15) Years | 1507 Demaret St. Lake Charles, la, STREET ADDRESS : city STATE Take Charles, Lz. RESIDENCE PLACE OF BIRTH CITIZENSHIP OCCUPATION Eaborer . TATTS:H.V. 1ft wrst, Cross rt dirme SCARS AND MARKS Della Vincent (Mother) Same as above NAME AND ADDRESS OF NEAREST RELATIVE _ ‘| Do Not Write In This Space IDENTIFYING NUMBERS SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER Class Searched ‘Checked Verified SELECTIVE SERVICE NUMBER ARMED SERVICES SERIAL NUMBER DRIVERS LICENSE INFORMATION Remarks STATE ISSUED TYPE OF OL PLEASE TYPE OR PRINT ALL OF THE INFORMATION ABOVE HW 50529 ‘ BDocld:32263247 Page 9
- . ‘ , : STATE OF LOUISIANA ; NC oTr 1 CE E DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY | ° b As) OF INFQRMATION OBTAINEN PXWGION OF STATE POLICE | ms Ki E RAP SHEETS A’ fe fe poLice CRIMINAL: RECOR:: iat oceans PEN TLE : pesti-to. «= = S OTHER THAN . CRIMINAL : bE ROUC 93-0 = : ‘YS NOT AUTHORIZED BY TRES599E 08 NO. I ..ND,JHAT PERSON AND AG2NC Yo © A3SEMINATION. MUST ASSUBIE. Fi) Lads ay The FollowitigT¥s PAR rAVYd UNANAHOB RA AH 665.735 us Lousiana g STATE F. BNATIN- | CRIMINAL REpa en POLICE 572 281 F BATON EP —— — ——__. CONTRIBUTOR ae aN ARREST OR. - OF FINGERPRINTS NAME AND NUMBER RECEIVED | CHARGE DISPOSITION i i 50 Crthse [Peter Mule | 3-21-66 | burglary Vew Braunfels \# 17860. oe ao. Texas oo. | if a PD -New Orleans, La. Peter Frank Mule 2-2h- 67 a Gambling ote oe «lf 125 328 | a on nes 30 Svergreen, Ala. Ipeter F.- ‘Mule _ | 5= 5-69 = Forgery 2D New Orleans, La. Peter Frank t 10- 17- 69) Age. Burg. WILE ; ; . mo, | # 125 328 ; oo i 3) Dallas, Texas psn Mule 11-7-70 | Inv. VSNL Burg oe : | | ; " 0 Gretna, Ta. iPeter Frank Mule | l- 26-71 | Gambling by. “B-152 No record zeta | | handbook | itn clerks office. PD, New Orleans, (Peter eee (27-7 Murder oe | | | SPen Angola.La | Peter Frank . |3-21-72. Murder. | Natural Life. Orleans Parish Mule #73082 - mis, nor, af id. bing number a ‘Since. neither ‘fingerpr ae - - | ~ +40 Jn our files accons. 1 - Louisiana Bure: ated + cannot guaranice * ap this material. “dual in whom you oy are.’ ‘ § Se —————————————$>>>>———SS——————————— -For completion of our records, please supply disposition to this Department in any of the foregoing cases where it does not appear. - DPS 11-10 * Represents notations unsupported by fingerprints. Oo 1 HW 54529 Docid:32263247° Page 10°
HW 50529 4 4 December 12, 1978 Louisiana State Penitentiary Angolas, Louisian 11:00 a.m. ' Present: Vincent: Harold J. Vincent, Investigators Al Mullican and Glen Bullard This is concerning when President Kennedy got killed, in 1972, I went to New Orleans, me and a friend to go to Bourbon Street and look at it, we had never seen it before, and all this is. Investigator: Now is this 1972 or 62? Vincent: '62, excuse me. It was during the winter time, about September or October, something like that, and we were - Gown on Bourbon Street and we met a man who turned out to be Clay Shaw. As, I'd like to say that he turned. out to be a homosexual, that's the reason he picked us up and brought us to his house, and other reasons, DoclId: 32263247 we had sex and everything else. Well, me and him got to be pretty good friends, I wasn't but twelve. years old, and he would send me money to south Louisiana where I was living at the time and to take a bus back and forth to New Orleans to meet him every now and then. . Well, in the progress of us getting acquainted and becoming pretty together and everything, he started taking me out and stuff. Well, one night we were sitting at his house watching television, and he said "let's got to the airport, I've got to pick up a friend." So we went to the airport, and he picked up a. sort of a short, not too short, about my height, about 5'8", 5'9", guy, wore glasses, had a hat on. Later on I found out he was bald-headed. So we went to the house. I went in the bedroom to go to bed, this was about 12:30, 1:00 in the morning. So I went in and went to bed and they started talking and stuff. I really didn't pick up too much of the conversation, I know they had a movie projector running, and this and that, looking at films and stuff. So the next day he sent me home. About two weeks later he sent me some more money to come back and visit him, so I went, and the same man was there, and this time the man really got mad about him having me at the house at this time, because there was some more people. there. Page i1
HW 50529 Mr. Shaw asked me to just go toa movie, or something, “until they could leave, so I did. I come back about 6:00 that evening, the people were gone, and I asked why the man got mad and made me leave and stuff. He just wouldn't answer me, he was acting very suspicious you know, like something was wrong with him or some- thing. So, I went about three weeks without seeing him again, and he wrote me a letter and asked me the next time I come down to bring some clothes, cause we were go on a little trip. Sol brought couple extra suits of clothes and stuff. Told my parents that I was going to stay with a friend and stuff. This was about November at this time. First of November, I believe. So we went to Florida, Miami, Florida, and the same man that was at Clay Shaw's house that night picked us up at the airport and took us to a motel room, and that's where we were staying. That night he came to pick us up, brought us to his house, we ate supper there. They took me and asked me to go with this other guy and we left, went shopping, brought. some clothes and did some other things. Clay Shaw stayed at this guy's house. Which later on I found out to be a man named, I don't know if I can pronounce his name right, Terracoti, or something like this. So we stayed there for two days and we flew back to New Orleans, and I went back home. So then, about four days later, I went back to Shaw's house again, I skipped school on a Thursday evening and went to his house. I stayed there from Thursday to Sunday. Well, in the progress of me staying there, he got numerous phone calls, a couple of them from Dallas, he got one from Houston, he got one from Miami, and different other places, whenever I answer the phone. He got a lot more that I didn't even get to answer the phone to. And, there was pictures, you know, like there was pictures in his room and stuff and the pro- jector was still set up, movie screen. They had a picture of where Kennedy was actually killed at, you~ know like they'd stop the picture and put x's on the sereen and different other things. He got kinda mad at me, noticing, messing around with the projector and everything else, so that night we went out and we went uptown to go eat and Shaw had a big brown envelope, sorta like thing, and there was some money in it. There was two people there, and Docld: 322763247 Page 12
later on we went to another place. He gave them two people some money, and then later on we went to another place, and he gave another man some money, which later. on turned out to be, to my knowledge, Oswald and this other man, and Jack Ruby. Then first part of 1963, I started getting in trouble . and stuff, stealing. I was stealing cars and stuff and selling them to a place for money in Bomont, Texas. And that was nothing but, sort of, pocket money and stuff. So, he let me come down and stay for a while with him. I stayed about two weeks with him and there was a lot of conversation. Terraconti came over and they started talking and stuff, and I'm in the kitchen, eating a sandwich, and I could hear them start yelling at each other. Terraconti was telling Shaw that he was gonna do what he tells him to do or else. Don't worry about the other people, that he's got them covered, that they won't say nothing, and different other things. I really couldn't understand what he was really talking about, about he's gonna have to do what he tells him to do, or else, and stuff. So they went on and Kennedy _got killed and the pictures that was marked off on the screen and different other things, and Oswald — was in the book store, but the second. man was on the ground from the x's on the screen of the movie projector, was on the ground in: between the tree and the fence and after Kennedy was shot, the guy on the ground left, he jumped over the fence into a car which somebody was waiting for him and left, and went to Houston, Texas . where he stayed for a while. . Shaw kept on talking about, don't worry about Ruby, that he won't be able to talk that much, cause he'll be taken care of and different other things. At this time, I.think Terracotti went back to, from what I understand, he went back to Cuba or someplace, and Shaw just sorta laid low, as they call it. The other guy stayed in Houston for about three weeks after Kennedy was killed. I was in L.T.I. at the time he was killed for different things and I run off from L.T.I. and I went to Shaw's house, and this second individual who was implicated in shooting Kennedy was there.. So Shaw gave him some more: money , and told him to leave the state and leave the country, if possible, HW 50529 DBocld:322763247 Page 13
HW 50529 don't worry about nothing, that Ruby would be taken care of. There was some conversation whenever Terra cotti was there concerning Ruby and a nightclub in Dallas, I don't even know the name of it, from what I understand, from what I've been reading about it, it was a topless place. Terracotti was, Ruby was dealing pretty much drugs for Terracotti in Dallas, and this was when Kennedy cracked down on organized crime, in the early 60's, him and his brother, gambling, drugs, prostitution, different other things, and this was what triggered the whole thing off. Now, one time I was at Shaw's house and there was two FBI agents there talking to him and I didn't really hear the whole conversation, they were saying, Shaw would tell them look, just don't worry about it, just get the information that we need, what route he's gonna take, who's going to be in the car, different other things, what time is he gonna come through, what time is he gonna get there, how many people are gonna be around him. Shaw noticed that I was over~ hearing the conversation so he told me I would have to leave. Well, in the process of leaving, I guess he was the one that called the police and got me busted. I didn't get actually caught in New Orleans, I made it back to Lake Charles, to where I got caught there. They said I stole a car and they sent me back to L.T.I. So, while I'm in L.T.I., he'd write me letters and things and send me a few things. I stayed there until 1967 and I got sent to Quincy for running off. He fixed it up with some people to get me discharged out of Quincy, after I had stayed there for a year. - After I had stayed there for a year, to the exact day, I got out and I went back and lived in S for a while and I'd go see him every now and then, and he'd give me money and stuff and he'd question me about different things I'd heard in the past, and seen, and stuff, and told me that I could be taken care of real good if I'd just mind my own business, don't say nothing, don't say nothing about what I seen, or who I seen at his house, and different other Docld: 322763247 Page 14
things, so I told him "okay". Then I got,he intro- duced me to some people from New Orleans, and I got implicated in another car theft ring around Lake Charles, stealing cars and that. Now, I'd like to backtrack a minute, to the times when I was at his house. One time I was there that it wasn't actually Carlos, Carlos Marcello that come to his house, it was his son, I think it was Vincent Marcello that they call him. He come there and he gave Shaw some money and stuff and told him to see to it that it gets to the right people and - that they take care of their jobs the way it was supposed to go and stuff and everything would be okay. They had a little argument and stuff and they asked Shaw was he trying to back out of the deal. He told them no, but he was too far implicated in the thing now to back out now, so that's where some of the money come from to pay Oswald and this other individual, I'd rather not say his name at this time, if it's okay. He paid them. That's the night that we went out to eat that some of the money come from Marcello and some of it come from this guy from Florida. You know like they were constantly on him to take care of his business, to make sure the people get paid, to see to it that all of the arrangements were made that they have what they needed, seemed like that they had a lot of pressure going on at the time. Lotta arguments was happening. There was, like the two FBI agents that was there, one of them is still working in New Orleans now, he's been up. here to see me a couple of times, but I don't believe that he really knows who I am. They were there, and they had a lot of pressure on him. I don't know if they had anything on him, or what it was, if they were getting paid, or what, but they had a lot of pressure on them to get certain information for them. Whenever they were supposed to kill Kennedy or something, he was, they was supposed to really happen in Louisiana, if I'm not mistaken, he was supposed to come to Baton Rouge, or New Orleans, or something and that's whenever they were supposed to have shot him. HW 50529 DBocld:3227632747 Page 15
HW 50529 Something happened, something, I don't know really what it was, but, it ended up that he got shot in Dallas and in the preparation of them making the plan to shoot him and stuff, they were making the plans to shoot him in Louisiana from I've seen and heard and stuff, but then within a couple of | months time or six months, whatever, they had to change their plans to Dallas. You know the FBI come across, you know they gave them folders of . papers and they'd come over, talk, sit there for three or four hours talking about different things, there were some heated conversations and arguments that went on with Shaw and this guy Marcello, and the FBI agents, little short, kind of dude, not real fat, about 180, 190 pounds. It was just a real heated thing that was going down between them. Like they wanted to do it, but then it seemed like they were being forced to do it, or whatever. I got out of Quincy, and like I said, I got implicated in a car theft ring there, selling cars to the same guy in Bomont, Texas, and stuff, and I went to. see Shaw couple times after that. He questioned me, you know, about what I've seen and what I've heard, like he'd give me a photo album with pictures, you know, of dudes that was there, and like whenever I'd get to a page, he'd ask me, "do you remember this guy, here?" and I'd say "no, I don't." And he'd say "well, that's the one that you met in Baton Rouge", or something like that, he wouldn't tell me that it was really like Terracotti or Marcello, or something like this, but I just wouldn't really own up to letting him know that I knew who it was, because at this time I started to realize more and more what he was really off into and what really happened. I kept my mouth shut, and I got implicated, after the car-ring, I got implicated with some other people that worked for Marcello, they're here in Angola now, and there was a few killings that happened. Like they would hold this over my head, and stuff. Clay Shaw would tell me, "look, we know that you were in on this killing here" you know,. that "you shot the guy or that you were with him whenever he got shot, . so you're with us now, you know, so just watch your p's and q's and keep quiet about everything." Docld:3227632747 Page 16
HW 50529 An I went along with them for a long time, now I'm up here, they keep on promising this, that they're gonna get me out, that they're gonna hire a lawyer to do this. Every now and then I hear from them, one of the Marcello brothers, Vincent mostly, telling me to be cool, that they've got this working in my case and they've got that working, and do I need anything, or for me to contact this individual in Angola if I need anything. Stuff like this. Well, I was laying in my cell one night reading the Newsweek about the assassination and that's when it finally dawned on me that they were just actually using me and that's whenever I decided to tell what I know about it and let the truth come out if it can. Investigator: Have you been in contact with anyone else about this information that you're giving us at this time? Vincent: Yes, I was, I've been in contact with a lady that works for Newsweek magazine, Miss Susan, I can't pronounce her last name, F-a-r-k-e-r, Farker, or something like that. Investigator: Have you heard from her? Vincent: Yes, she said that they have forwarded information that I have gaven to her to the House Assassination Committee because they are more equipped to deal with the information that I have sent then. Investigator: How long ago was this? Vincent: I got that letter from her on the 14th. Investigator: Of this month? Vincent: Yes sir, and, no excuse me, she wrote the letter on the 14th of last month and I got the letter a couple of weeks ago, the first of December. Investigator: What did you tell her in your letter to her? Vincent: Uh, I told her that I appreciate her trying to help me and I'm ready to reveal the information that I do know about the Kennedy assassination and the people that I know of that was involved in it. But, that I do not want to talk to no FBI or CIA agents from Louisiana, and if at all possible, I wouldn't want to talk to nobody here in the prison about it, and that I be given some type of protection concerning this after I do reveal the information. That I will Docld: 32263247 Page i?
HW 50529 testify in front of the House Assassinations Committee if they would like, and if charges are brought against individuals, I would be willing to testify against them in a trial and try to obtain a conviction, if I could. Investigator: Let's go back to the beginning. There's some questions that I had. In the fall of 1962, you were twelve at that time? Vincent: I was twelve years of age. Investigator: And you and a friend decided to go to New Orleans. Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Who was the friend that went with you? Vincent: He's dead now. Investigator: Could you tell us what his name was? Vincent: pavid Lovitt. Investigator: Is he any kin to Donald Lovitt? Vincent: Yes. | Investigator: How did he die? Vincent: He got shot in the head with a .22 rifle. Investigator: Was it a murder? Vincent: Yes, sir. Investigator: Has anyone been arrested on that murder? Vincent: Yes, sir. Investigator: Was the correct person arrested on that murder? Vincent: Yes, sir. Investigator: Did the truth come out about his murder? Vincent: Yes, sir. Investigator: You and David Lovitt, was he approximately the same age as you were? Vincent: He was I'd say four or five years older than I was. Something like that. Docld: 3227632747 Page 156
Inyestigator; Were you in school at that time? Vincent: Yes, sir. . Investigator: What school did you attend? Vincent: W. W. Lewis Junior High School. Inyestigator: Was that in Sulta? Vincent: Yes, sir. Investigator: Were you living with your parents at that time? Vincent: I was living with my mother. My father is deceased. Investigator: What was your father's name? Vincent: Lawrence penser: Investigator: Your mother's name? Vincent: Della Benson. Investigator: Does she still reside in Sulta? Vincent: No sir, She resides in Lake Charles, Louisiana now. She's living with a man named Joe Bicata. Investigator: You and David Leyitt went there. How did you all go to New Orleans? Vincent: We hitch-hiked. Investigator: How long did you stay there? Vincent: Well we got there that evening, pretty late, it was getting dark. We had trouble crossing the bridge going into New Orleans and we stayed there after he picked us up we stayed there all that night and about half of the next day. Investigator: Was it a school day that you all went down on? Vincent: I believe it was, Yes, I believe it was a Thursday or Friday or something like that. yw 50529 Docld: 32263247 Page 19
10 HW 50529 Investigator: So you decided you just wanted to go to New Orleans to see the sights. Mostly see Bourbon Street, Vincent: Mostly see Bourbon Street. Investigator: You hitchhiked down there. Did you have. any place to stay the first night you were there? Vincent: We stayed at Clay Shaw's house. Investigator: Where did you all run into Clay Shaw? Vincent: They got, if I remember correctly, there in the French Quarter it was about - I remember we just passed a Playboy Club or whatever it is on some - Street and we were walking uptown or whatever direction it is and he was coming out of a place there on Bourbon Street, whatever, and he started talking to us and asked us if we would like to make a little money. We stopped and told him sure. Investigator: Was anyone’ with him? Vincent: No sir. He was by himself. Investigator: 0.K. And he came out of a place near the Playboy Club? vincent: If I remember correctly it was. Investigator: And this was Clay Shaw you saw? Vincent: Yes, sir. | Investigator: He asked you if you wanted to make some money. . What else did he say? Vincent: And we told him sure. And he said well come on and get in the car so we got into the car and started driving around and I was sitting by the door and Shaw was driving, Dayie was sitting in the middle. Him and Davie I guess they didn't hit it off too well or whatever but he come out and told us that for us to make the money and stuff that we would have to haye | sex with him and different other things so Davie wouldn't go along with him so I went along with him and I guess that's why our relationship got to be as good as it was cause I sort of liked him and I felt that he liked me pretty much too. Docld: 322763247 Page 270
ll Investigator: . Can you describe Clay Shaw for us? was ’ Vincent: He/about six one six two. He weighs about 210 - 215, something like that. He had gray hair. Just a normal build. He wasn't fat. He wasn't all that skinny at that time. Had a part in his hair and combed it to the side. I don't know if it was glasses or sunglasses that he had on. They looked like sunglasses to me. I don't know whether they were perscription or not, but he had on a pair of glasses. Normal tongued man, talke kind of slow, sort of, and easy going. Investigator: Did he have any peculiar sexual habits that you found to be peculiar, now seem to think were peculiar? Vincent: Uh... Just that you know, he would like he liked oral sex more than he did the other type of sex and he was more of a freak in watching people have sex than anything else. And he got off on that watching two men or two women together having sex and he would do, to you all, I would say, would be strange things like you know let people masturbate on him or something like this, you know. I would say it was abnormal, yes. Investigator: Would he bring other men and other women in? You say he liked to observe them. Would he bring them in while you were present? - Vincent: He did a couple of times, yes. He brought one little homosexual in where me and this boy had.sex together while he . was sitting in a chair masturbating and watching us and stuff. SS Investigator: Do you recall the names of any of the people he brought in? Vincent: No sir, I don't. Invesitgator: You mentioned he took you all in a car, do you recall what kind of car it was? Vincent: If I'm not mistaken, it was a Buick. Investigator: Do you recall what color or anything about the interior? , Vincent: Nothing unusual about the inside, it was a pretty big car, for that time of year, I guess, nothing really unusual about it, it was sort of a green Buick, I would say it was, green on the outside. Wasn't nothing really unusual about it. HW 50529 DBocld:322632747 Page 21
HW 50529 12 Investigator: How did David get back to Lake Charles? Vincent: We caught the bus. Investigator: He stayed with you, but he did not engage in any e e e * Vincent: He stayed with us, but he stayed off in another bed- room, more to himself . . . he didn't participate at all in the sexual part or anything else. Investigator: And, the money for the bus was provided by Shaw? . Vincent: Yes, sir. Investigator: How would he carry his money, do you recall if he carried a wallet or a money clip? Vincent: He carried it, some of it he carried, you know like the small bills, you know, ones, and fives and tens like that, he'd carry it in a money clip in his front pocket. — Investigator: On the right side? You're gesturing to your right. Vicent: I'd say the right, yes, because if I'm not mistaken, he was right-handed. But then he had a sort of a check book, at that time he had a sort of a tri-fold deal that had the checks and the money together in it with the credit cards and he would sometimes carry it in his coat pocket, and other times he would put it in his right back pocket - I mean it just depends on where he was going and what he was gonna do. Investigator: And he provided this money to you and David to- get back to Lake Charles? Vincent: Yes sir. Investigator: Approximately how long after you returned to Lake Charles did you next hear from him? Vincent: I'd say about a week and a half. Something like that. Investigator: How'd he contact you? | Vincent: He called me. | Investigator: ‘Did anyone else talk to him, or just you? Vincent: He called at my aunt's house. We didn't have a phone at the time. She come and got me. She lived across the street and I went and talked to him. He said that he had a money order coming for me to catch the bus Docld: 322763247 Page 22?
HW 50529 13 to New Orleans and I went and I got the money order at the bus. station and caught the bus to New Orleans that Friday evening after school, told my parents that I was going to stay with a guy named David ... uh wow ... his first name was David and we had another friend named Dickey Hopkins and each one of us told our parents that we were gonna go stay with him and he went told his parents that he was gonna stay with me and I told my parents I was gonna go stay with him — and we'd just go and stay gone two or three days and tell them, you know, like that time I told them I was going to stay with David's parents and him to go to. Alexandria, and I went to New Orleans. Investigator: You say your aunt's house. Who was your aunt? vincent: Miss Wilferd Reshaw? (sp.) Investigator: Wilferd Reshaw. Does she still reside in the Lake Charles area? ; Vincent: In Sulfa. Investigator: Where did David live? Vincent: He lived in Lake Charles. Investigator: You recall the street? Vincent: It was out. on 171, somewheres out on highway 171 going towards Durittick (sp). INvestigator: So, he sent you a money order and it was at the bus station? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Was it made out to you? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: You cashed the money order, bought you a ticket, went to New Orleans? . Vincent: Yes. Investigator: He picked you up at the bus station? Vincent: Yes. ’ Investigator: O.K. What happened that time? Docld:3227632747 Page 23
HW 50529 14 Vincent: We went to his house, we just went to his house, he ' bought me some- clothes... Investigator: Where did he buy your clothes? Vincent: At a, some place on Canal Street. It was, I know I , kept on bugging him about buying me a pair of Italian shoes and he finally said, “alright come on, we're gonna go get you some shoes and some clothes, and ". He went and he bought me that pair of Italian shoes cause I remember at that time my foot was cut and he was complaining about me wearing a shoe that might be too tight because of my toe being cut,.and I told him well don't worry about it. We went on ahead and got the shoes and the clothes and stuff and we went back to the house, had sex a couple of times, and went out, and we ate that night. . .« Investigator: Do you recall where you ate? Vincent: MMMM, no sir, I don't. Investigator: Was it near his home? Vincent: No, sir, it was near the Ponchatrain Beach, if I'm not mistaken, somewheres in that, by Ponchatrain Beach. Yeah, I remember that we was driving by Ponchatrain Beach and I asked him what was that, and he told me that was Ponchatrain Beach, and I told him I ain't never been there before and he said that we would go there some- time. Investigator: You stayed with him the weekend? Vincent: Yes, I stayed with him until Sunday morning. Investigator: How did you get back home? Vincent: I took the bus. Investigator: Did anyone else come to the house while you were there that weekend? - Vincent: The first weekend I was there, that's whenever we went to the airport, if I'm not mistaken and picked up that guy from Miami, and he stayed there Saturday night and he left Sunday because I remember he dropped me off at the bus station and the guy was with him, said he was going to take him to the airport, somewheres © to see somebody or something, but they dropped me off at the Greyhound Bus Station and took me on to, I took the bus on home. Docld:3227632747 Page 24
HW 50529 15 Investigator: Do you always’ use Greyhound? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Could you describe this man again from Miami? Vincent: He was about 5'6", 5'7", maybe a little taller,he was medium build, about 170, 180 pounds, maybe 190 pounds, he wore glasses, he had a hat on, he was bald-headed, not completely bald-headed, he was more or less bald down the middle of his head. He had, I would say, an accent in his voice, a sort of, I'd say, I really don't know what kind of accent, French or something, kind of a harsh-toned voice, he was always demanding stuff, you know, hollering you got to do this, take care of your business the way it's supposed to be taken care of or else, or other things. Very well dressed man, wore suits, dressed real good. Investigator: During the time that he was there that weekend, were any women brought in, were any other men brought in? Vincent: No sir, not that I remember. Investigator: Did he accompany you and Mr. Shaw to the Poncha- train Beach area for dinner? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Do you recall what was discussed during the time that you were present when they were talking? Vincent: Construction work, you know, how's his business going, Investigator: Whose business is this? Vincent: Shaw's business. Investigator: Shaw had a construction business? Vincent: From what they were talking about, he was working on some type of construction job or something, building some kind of building or something, and, you know, just some normal kind of conversation, they never you know, uh, he'd ask him has he seen somebody, and he would say a name, I don't really remember what names he would say, but he would call a name, and you know like Shaw wouldn't even answer him. Terra-~ cotti would get kind of mad and demand an answer, slap the table and tell him you're not taking care of your business the way you're supposed to. Stuff like this. Docld: 322763247 Page 25
HW 50529 17 Vincent: No sir, it would be at the Greyhound bus station in Sulfa. Investigator: Sulfa? And would you have to endorse this and cash it. Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Endorse it and cash it and then you would purchase your ticket with the cash (unintelligible) Vincent: Yes. He would always send me something like three or four dollars, maybe five dollars over, to buy me some- thing to eat on the way down and stuff. Investigator: Were the money orders made out in your name? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Did they bear your home address or anything? Vincent: No, sir. Not that I remember. He'd just make it out in my name and Greyhound bus station in Sulfa. That's where I picked it up at. Investigator: Do you recall what kind of money order it was? What company? ; Vincent: I never noticed it that well. Investigator: SO, approximately three weeks later, you returned. to New Orleans, what happened that time? Vincent: We, that's whenever he was given, if I'm not mistaken, that's whenever he was giving .the people the money. He had some money in a brown envelope and we went out that night to eat and before we left there was some people there, and they were showing some movies or something. If I remember correctly, they were showing some movies _that night and some pictures, and different other things. Investigator: What kind of movies? Vincent: They were some movies of some buildings on the inter- state, you know, they were to my knowledge now, it was the movie of the route that Kennedy was supposed to have taken and stuff, cause they were discussing if he gets here he ain't gonna be able to get out fast enough... cause of this is in his way, and stuff, and they'd put x's on the screen and different other things. Docld: 322763247 Page 2?7
18 Investigator:. Was it a big film or a small film? Vincent: It was about the size of this table, something like that, maybe a little bit bigger. Investigator: The screen? Is that what you're saying. The size of this table, about four feet by four feet? Vincent: Yes sir, something like that. The projector was . I guess 8 mm, whatever they call them. It wasn't a big projector. You know, like they'd run the film for a little while, it was a little roll of film about the size of this ash tray here. Investigator: About three inches in diameter? Vincent: Yes, and they'd get to a certain spot on the film and they'd stop the projector and they'd go, you know, they'd put an x on it, show, they'd talk, and they'd put another x on it and stuff. Investigator: How many men were present when this was taking place? Vincent: There was Shaw, this Marcello guy, me and Terracotti was there, cause that's the night he got really by him having me there and noticing all this. I believe the two FBI agents were there that night, too, if I'm not mistaken. Somebody brought Shaw a folder with some papers and some other things in it. Investigator: This Marcello. You say his name was Vincent? Vincent: If I'm not mistaken. I know he was one of Carlos Marcelio's sons. INvestigator: Could you describe him for us please? Vincent: He's about 5'9", 5'8", something like that, he weighed about 180, 190, good dressed man, he had black hair, combed it straight back. _Had on a pair of | sunglasses, if I'm not mistaken. He smoked. That's about it. - Investigator: You mention smoke, did Shaw smoke? Vincent: I never seen him smoke. Investigator: Did he drink? Vincent: No, sir. Investigator: Did not smoke or drink in your presence? HW 50529 DBocld:3227632747 Page 26
HW 50529 19 Vincent: I don't know if he smoked or not, but I know he didn't never drink in my presence. He never smoked in my presence. Investigator: Did he use any type of narcotics? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: What kind of narcotics? Vincent: Speed. Investigator: He used speed? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Were they pharmaceutical speed? vincent: Yes, at that time I think they were called "mollies" or whatever they were. Black caps .. .- (Switch to side two of tape) Investigator: I believe you said that these were pharmaceutical speed, they referred to them as "mollies", they were black capsules. Did he ever utilize any other type of narcotics? Vincent: No sir, not that I know of. Investigator: Did he ever tell you where he was obtaining the narcotics? Vincent: He just said that his doctor would give it to him. Investigator: Did he ever say who his doctor was? Vincent: No, sir. Investigator: So it was yourself, Marcello, Shaw, Terracotti, and the two FBI agents? Vincent: Yes. . Investigator: Was there anyone else present? Vincent: No, sir. | Investigator: Could you describe the two FBI agents? Vincent: One of them weighs about 210, 220, something like that. He's got brown hair, glasses. Demanding type of man. His face was kind of bumped. Sort of a fat face, sorta like. Docld: 322763247 Page 29
HW 50529 20 Investigator: How tall was he. Vincent: He was about, uh, I'd say about 5'10", 5'11", something like that. Investigator: Sort of fat, then? Vincent: Yes sir. Investigator: Anything else you can recall about him? Vincent: Mmmm , no, sir. Investigator: Did you ever know his name? Can you recall his name? Vincent: I know his name, yes, sir. Uh, I say I know his name, I can't remember it right now, uh, he's been up here to see me a couple of times, and, he come up here and talked to me one time about this gun incident that happened up here, and I refused to talk to him, and he come up here to see me another time concerning something else, and I refused to talk to him again. And, uh, I can't even tank of his name right now. Starts with a "P", I know at. Investigator: Petley? (sp) Vincent: Petley, if I'm not mistaken. That's his name. Investigator: What. color hair did he have? . Vincent: Brown hair, about the color of yours. Investigator: About the color of mine? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Did, uh, what part did he take in this? Vincent: He was one of them that brought some papers and stuff over to Shaw's house that night. He had a folder with some papers and stuff in it, and they kept on telling him that they needed the rest of the information and stuff, and, you know, he just told them, yeah, well, I'll get it, and just don't rush me, and stuff. They got in, not an argument, but sorta like demanding that he get it and all that, and. . Investigator: Can you describe the other FBI agent? Vincent: He was, uh, about the same built, but he was a little shorter than this other man was. He didn't wear glasses Docld: 322763247 Page 30
HW 50529 21 or nothing. He had sort of biond hair. He weighed about 180, 190. About 5'6", 5'7", something like that. He smoked a cigar. Uh, he had sort of a flat nose, about hisself, big eyes. He just...he drunk you know, he drunk a lot. Investigator: What was he drinking? Vincent: Whiskey, mostly, vodka and stuff like this. And, uh, he wouldn't talk too much, he'd just listen, you know, and he wouldn't talk unless they would talk to him. He was more or less in the background, sorta like. (Investigator stops tape to verify recording.) Investigator: Did you ever know what the name of the second FBI agent was? Vincent: No, sir. Investigator: Did they have any nicknames they used in this group? Vincent: No, sir. Investigator: Anybody have any peculiar sayings that they would use? . Vincent: Just that uh, like uh, you know like Marcello he would talk about his father a lot, you know, Daddy said this or father said this, uh, things like that. Investigator: Did you ever have occasion to meet Carlos Marcello? Vincent: One time, yes. Investigator: Where was that? vincent: We were going out that one night, to go to a movie and . stuff, me and Shaw and another boy that he picked up, and we were partying and stuff, and I met him there, he was in a car. — Investigator: That was parked? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: He was in a car, do you recall where? Vincent: It was at a movie house, it was on Canal Street, I guess they call it, it was going out towards the where the bridge is at, somewheres around there, on Canal Street. Docld: 322763247 Page 31
HW 50529 22 Investigator: Did you overhear any conversation between him and. Shaw? Vincent: No, sir. | Investigator: Going back to when Shaw took this money and passed it out, did he state that the money was brought by Vincent Marcello? Vincent: Yes, Sir. Investigator: Okay. What date was this, was it a monday or a tuesday. . .? Vincent: It was on a weekend, because that was the only time that - I was there in New Orleans was on a weekend. Investigator: Vincent brought the money to Shaw? — Vincent: Yes. Investigator: And then that night it was passed out? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Okay. Could you tell us about that again, please? Vincent: We went out that night, and, uh, we went uptown, and he had two envelopes on the car seat, and we got to a place there on some street, Canal Street, or whatever street by it, or something. He got out, and gave the two men you know, one of them each and envelope of money. One of them that I know now was Oswald, and the other guy that I'm speaking of, he gave him the envelope and we left and later on, Terracotti gave him some money, and he gave that to Ruby. That was out by Ponchatrain Beach. It was a place that they eat, it was like a seafood place.... got fishing nets hanging on it, and uh, stuff like that. They got a roller coaster deal right in back of it, or by it, if. I'm not mistaken, cause we were sitting there eating and that's wher they, where Shaw gave Ruby the money. Investigator: Was this on the same night? Vincent: Yes, sir. . Investigator: So, was Terracotti present when this was taking place? Vincent: No, sir. Terracotti left and went back to Miami. He was there. That was on a Saturday night. He got there that Friday night and gave Shaw the money. He gave him some papers and a roll of film and the money, of course, Docld: 322763247 Page 32
HW 50529 23 and then he went in and took a nap, and went to sleep or something, and he woke up about, mmmm about 1:30 2:00 Saturday evening. We brought him to the airport and he took a plane out. Investigator: And, so he had money from Marcello and Terracotti? Vincent: Yes. INvestigator: The money was delivered to Oswald and. the second .™man, and to Ruby? . Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Did any of those three men ever come to Shaw's house? Vincent: One of them did, yes. Investigator: Which one? Vincent: Ruby. Investigator: Ruby came to his house? ¢ Vincent: Yes. Investigator: That same weekend? Vincent: Not that same weekend. He come back on another occasion, it was just before Christmas time, he come. back com- plaining about the police really harrassing his dancers, and you know, they really coming down on him pretty hard in Dallas. One of his pushers got busted and, uh, you know, he can't get the right stuff to uh, back the people off, and could he talk to some people about backing him up? We took him to the airport and he took a plane to Miami, and, uh, I don't know who he really went to see and I would presume he went to see Terracotti or some- thing, he did take a place to Miami, and, uh, he come back the next day. Investigator: He came back to Shaw's house? Vincent: Yes, and he was complaining to Shaw about they won't do nothing for him, they won't give him no protection, and stuff like this, would Shaw talk to the people? Shaw said he'd see what he could do, and stuff. and Ter.. I mean Ruby was really upset, he was really mad, you know, like, he said I do all this for them and they won't give me no kinda help and they think I'm crazy, and stuff like that. Docld: 32327632747 Page 353
HW 50529 24 Investigator: How soon after you first met Shaw did.this meeting take place wherein the money was transferred to the individuals? Vincent: Oh, .. . I'd say about, oh about a month, maybe two months. Investigator: Two months after you first met Shaw? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Did you ever know the name of this second individual with Oswald? Vincent: Yes, I did. Investigator: Can you describe him? Vincent: He's about 5'6", 5'7", he's got black curly hair, combs it back, uh, he's got a nice..eyes, uh, he's got a problem with his eyes. He don't wear glasses or nothing, he's just got a problem with his eyes. Uh, Investigator: How does he have a problem, does he squint, or ..? Vincent: No, sir, like you talk to him about his eyes, say some~ thing about eyes, or something, and they'd start running and burning, turn real red and stuff, his eyes were very, very sensitive and stuff. He's a well-built guy, he works for Marcello, he still works for Marcello to this day. Uh, he's got a, he's got a few gunshot wounds on him, where he's been shot, uh, he was running tele- phones, they call them telephones, in some bookie joint to where he'd hook up the telephones to a race track and get the results and stuff and you could call your bets in to him and he'd, stuff like this. He had a, you know, he'd run slot machines, cigarette machines, and vending machines, stuff like this, for Marcello. He, .- he killed a couple of people for Marcello, uh, he's got a deep voice, sorta like, uh, he's friendly but dangerous, you know. Investigator: Has he ever done any time? Vincent: yes, sir. Investigator: Where? Vincent: I think, uh, he got time in, I think he got five years in a federal joint one time, but they overturned his conviction and let him out, or something, on some type of charge, I don't really remember what it was, but he got time in a federal joint. They overturned his con- viction and he got out. He's in prison now. Docld: 322763247 Page 34
Investigator: Is he here, in Angola? Vincent: Uh, yes, sir, he is. Investigator: Do you recall, when he transferred the money to Oswald and that second man, you stated some street off Canal, you think uptown? Vincent: It was not a whole block away. It was sort of a side street, or on Canal Street, I don't really know that much about New Orleans, but it was, it was either on Canal or a street leading off of Canal Street, but it wasn't a whole block away. Investigator: Were they walking down the street? Vincent: No, sir. They were parked in a parking lot, and if I remember correctly, it was like Canal Street goes east and west in New Orleans, and there's a drugstore on the corner where they met at and if you follow the street that the drugstore's on, the drugstore sits on a ‘corner on Canal Street, actually, it's a, the door faces the corner on Canal Street, like that, and you take the street going north for a couple of blocks, you'll end up at, I think it's the Trailway bus station, and they were parked in a parking lot across the street, a little ways down the block, because I remember going into the drugstore and getting me some cigarettes while they talked and whenever I was coming back Shaw got out of the car, he was out of the car, he got in the car, got the envelopes and stuff, I went on ahead an got in the car and the two guys was out of their car. Oswald and this other guy. And he handed them the envelope and told them that was half of their payment for the job and they took the envelopes and just tossed them in their car and, not Oswald, but this other guy started hollering "well, we don't want no. tricks, set up jobs or nothing else" and that they'd do it their way and use what they wanted to use to shoot him with, and - stuff like that. Shaw just said okay, and left. You know, we got in the car and left.. Investigator: Did you ever hear any reference to the upcoming assassination of the President? Vincent: Uh, I didn't actually hear them say "gonna kill the President", uh they would talk like "the jog", "we'll use the guns we want in the job", uh, one time Terra- cotti was talking to Marcello, Vincent Marcello and you know, like Marcello would say "somethings got to be done about it, uh, him and his brother's really getting out of hand about this stuff". Terracotti said, "yeah, well, it's in the making, uh, he's gonna be taken care of, him and his brother." Uh.. HW 50529 DBocld:322763247 Page 35
HW 50529 26 Investigator: Referring to the second man, or referring to who? Vincent: This was Marcello talking to Terracotti. Investigator: Who did you think they were referring to, when they talk about him and his brother? Vincent: At that time I didn't have no idea who they were really talking about. Now, I can I almost positively say they were talking about President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, to my knowledge. a Investigator: So this money changed hands, do you recall what kind of car Oswald and this second man were in? Vincent: Yes, sir. They were in a, if I'm not mistaken now, it was a Rambler, or a Studebaker, something like that, it was an old beat up car. It didn't belong to Oswald, it belonged to the other guy. Uh, brown, if I'm not mistaken. It was either a Ramber or a Studebaker, something like that, and, uh, two-door car, it was beat up pretty well... Investigator: When you say two to a car...? Vincent: Two door. Investigator: Oh, I see. Was this at night when this took place? Vincent: It was during the evening. | Investigator: Did you all leave there and then got meet Ruby, or had you already met Ruby? Vincent: No, sir, we left there, we drove out to Ponchatrain Beach, they call it, or whatever. We sat down and started to eat and Ruby come in and they started talking like they was business partners, or whatever. Shaw gave Ruby his part of the money, or whatever he gave him the envelope with the money in it, and we sat down and we ate, cause I remember Shaw started hollering about the crabs, he didn't like to eat crabs, and that's what I was eating. They kept on talking. Ruby got up and left. We just sat there for about 15 or 20 more minutes and then we got up and left. Investigator: You state this was near the roller coaster ride? -Yincent: If I'm not mistaken, this roller coaster sits off to the side of it, towards the north of it. Investigator: How long after this was it that you all went to _, Miami? . vincent: The next time I went and seen him. Docld: 322763247 Page 36
HW 50529 27 Investigator: Was. this after Christmas? Vincent: No, sir. Investigator: Before Christmas. Vincent: I believe it was, yes it was before Christmas, if I'm not mistaken. Investigator: Who went to Miami? Vincent: Me and Oswald, I mean, uh Shaw. Investigator: You and Shaw. | Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Was it on a weekend? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: And, how had you got to New Orleans? Vincent: By bus. Investigator: By the bus. The same way, he sent a money order? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Do you recall what day you all left? Vincent: (pause) Thursday, or a Friday, something like that. Investigator: How had you gotten away from home? Vincent: The same way I always did, tell my parents that I was going to stay with a friend for the weekend, and stuff. Investigator: So it was during the latter part of the week then, that you all went to Miami? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Do you reall what airplane you flew down there on? Vincent: No, sir. Not really. Texas something, or whatever. Some plane. Investigator: You think it had Texas in it, though? Docld: 322763247 Page 37
HW 50529 28 Vincent: I believe it did, yes. Investigator: Did you have to make any stopovers? Vincent: No, sir. Investigator: Flew straight into Miami? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Did anyone meet you at the airport? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Who was that? Vincent: Terracotti and some other man driving his car. They had another man sitting in the front seat with him, I don't know who he was. Investigator: Where did you all go after they picked you up at the airport? Vincent: He took us to a motel, you know, that's where me and Shaw stayed at. That night, they came and picked us up and we went to Terracotti's house. Investigator: Do you recall the name of the motel? Vincent: No sir, I don't. Investigator: Tell us anything about it? Vincent: Well, it was two stories, had one bed in it, carpet, television, uh . . you had to go up a staircase at the end of the building, walk all the way down to it, to get to the room. Uh, had a big picture window in it, it was nothing spectacular. Just an ordinary motel. Investigator: Was it a "name" motel, like a Howard Johnson's or a Holiday Inn? Vincent: No, sir. No. Investigator: Did Shaw have to sign in? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Do you know if he used his real name? Vincent: I don't know if he did or not. Investigator: Did they have a bar or anything there? Docld: 322763247 Page 33
HW 50529 29 Vincent: No sir, they had a restaurant where you could eat and stuff. Investigator: Was it on the ocean, or . .? Vincent: No, sir. Investigator: Was it near the airport, or near any....? Vincent: It was five or six miles, I would say, from the airport. You know, something like that. Investigator: Was it relatively close to Terracotti's house? Vincent: Uh, about 10 miles, yes, sir. I say this was his house, now, that's where they took us to meet him, and whenever I asked Shaw where we were going, he'd say well we're going to see Mr. Terracotti, I've got a business meeting I've got to attend, and I say his house cause that's ~ what I was told, it was his house, and if it wasn't, I don't really know. Investigator: Can you describe the house and grounds? Vincent: It was a brick home, one story. Had about four bed- rooms in it, if I'm not mistaken. Had a pretty big living room, kitchen. The bedroom that I went into had double beds in it, bathroom and a swimming pool in the back yard, two-car garage deal. Flowers and stuff in the front yard. Just a normal brick home, I would say. Investigator: Nothing out of the ordinary, not a big ritzy...? Vincent: Oh, no sir. Nothing real big and spectacular. Investigator: Who all was present? Vincent: There was me, Shaw, Terracotti, the man that drove the car, the other man that was with him. Investigator: This other man, did you, and the driver, did :vou ever hear their names mentioned? Vincent: No sir, I didn't. Investigator: Did you stay there with them? Vincent: Not the whole time, no sir. They got the driver to take me uptown and we went up there shopping and different other things. ‘ Docld: 322763247 Page 39
HW 50529 30 Investigator: Do you recall any particular places you all went? Vincent: Nothing spectacular. Just walking around shopping, Christmas shopping, different other things, you know. Investigator: Who paid for it? Vincent: He did. Investigator: Could you describe this driver for us? Vincent: He was kind of big, dark complected. Big, I say, about 220, 230. About six foot, six foot one, that's about INvestigator: What about this other individual that was present. Could you describe him? Vincent: He was about my size, little bit bigger. He weighed, I don't know, about 180, 170 pounds. Had a tattoo on his hand, left hand if I'm not mistaken. He smoked a cigar, uh, brownish blond hair, something like that, combed it straight back. He did n't really say too much. Kept quiet pretty much, the whole time. Investigator: (Suggests they take a break) (Later) Investigator: I believe you stated that during the period of time that you were with Shaw, he would receive phone calls there, you would answer the phone at his house? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Did the people that were calling, did they ever tell you who they were, like I'm Mr. So and So, I want to speak to Mr. Shaw, or where they were calling from, anything of this nature? Vincent:. Well, not exactly where they were calling from, uh, the majority of the time, not all the time, they would say, "would you tell Mr. Shaw such and such is calling and I need to speak to him" uh, if, Mr. Shaw was some- wheres, in the bathroom, or outside, or something, they . would tell me to go get him that such and such was calling, and stuff. Investigator: Do you recall the names of any of the persons that were calling? vincent: Uh, Mr. Terracotti called quite a few times, Ruby called four or five times from Dallas. Marcello. Investigator: Which Marcello? Docld: 322763247 Page 40
HW 50529 31 Vincent: Carlos called a couple of times. Vincent called a couple of times. Uh, this other guy that was with Oswald, he called.once, from Marcello's house in Jefferson Parish. And they just tell me to go get him, it was urgent and they needed to talk to him, and stuff. Investigator: I believe you said in 1963, uh, you started stealing gome cars and selling them over in Bomont, Texas. How many times, uh, when did you get in trouble in '63, get picked up? , Vincent: That was September of '63. Investigator: When did they send you to LTI? Vincent: In September of '63. Investigator: During the first eight months of '63, did you have occasion to go to Shaw's ? Vincent: Oh, yeah, I'd go once or twice a month. Investigator: By this time, you were what, 13? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Were you ever going down there in stolen cars, or would you always go by bus, or fly, or how? Vincent: I'd always go by bus. Investigator: And he'd always send you the money? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: - How many times would you estimate you were there during these first few months of "63? Vincent: Mmmmm, about 15, 16 different times. Investigator: So you were going at least once a month, and would you go and stay the weekend? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: On these trips down there, would Terracotti, vincent or Carlos Marcello, Ruby, Oswald, were any of those persons present during your trips down there? Docld: 322763247 Page 41
HW 50529 32 Vincent: You mean during the trip itself, at his house, or . . -? Investigator: Right, would you come in contact with them while you were there? Vincent: Oh, yeah, practically every time, I'd come in contact with one or the other, at his house or we'd be out eating, or we'd go meet them someplace, or they'd come meet us someplace, or they would call and tell us to meet them at such and such place, different thinas | like this. Investigator: Would you come in contact Oswald very much? Vincent: I've seen him three times. Investigator: What were the three times? Vincent: One time was for the money that was passed on to him, another time he come down complaining about the guy that was gonna help him kill Kennedy, that they wasn't getting along too well. Investigator: Where did he come to complain? Vincent: In New Orleans. Investigator: Came to Shaw's house? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Did he say where he was coming from? Vincent: Well, not all the time. One time, he come though to Shaw's house, the other times we met him at a different place. Uh, he didn't actually say what he was coming for, but him and Shaw and Vincent Marcello got ina real, real big argument concerning the individual that was going to help him kill the President, that they didn't get along, he didn't trust him, and this and that. Investigator: You mentioned there was a third time, what was the third time? VIncent: The third time he come down and he was complaining about the location _ was gonna happen, different things like-this, and he didn't like the set-up and stuff. Investigator: Did Oswald ever give you any indication of what he was doing for a living or where he was living? Vincent: No, sir, he didn't. One time I noticed that he was com- plaining about the FBI men following him , you know, Docld: 322763247 Page 42
HW 50529 33 things like this, he talked, you know, to Vincent Marcello one Sunday while I was there about taking a trip, I don't know where, I didn't really catch the whole conversation, that he was going to take a trip and they wouldn't let him. FBI kept following him and different things. Investigator: How would he arrive? Vincent: One time he came down in a car and the other two times he flew down. Investigator: Would you all pick him up at the. airport? Vincent: Yes. Well, one time, no. We never did pick him up at the airport. He would rent a car, or whateyer, He was always in a car. One time he was in this other guy's car, Rambler or Studebaker, whatever it was, and then the next time he was in a different car that whenever we seen him he was complaining about the guy and stuff like this. Investigator: When you got in trouble on these stolen cars, where did they pick you up? Vincent: In Sulfa. Investigator: Were you in a stolen car then? Vincent: No sir, I was at a service station buying some cigarettes. Investigator: What,. had they conducted an investigation and identified you as being responsible for stolen cars or . .? Vincent: Well, we didn't actually get busted for the car theft ‘ itself, in that, I didn't get busted for car theft and stealing the cars and stuff until 1975, actually. Uh, in 1965, in 1963, me and another boy got busted for participating in some homosexual activities, he went home and told his parents and they sent - 6 Investigator: Who was the other boy? Vincent: I don't really know his name? Investigator: What did they do, file charges on you? Vincent: His father did, yeah, against me and my . Investigator: Okay, who was your ? Vincent: Charles Bertram. Investigator: Charles Bertram? Docld:3227632747 Page 43
HW 50529 34 DoclId: 32263247 Vincent: Yes Investigator: Did Bertram ever go to Shaw's with you? Vincent: No, sir. - Investigator: Did he ever know anything about Shaw? Vincent: No, sir. Investigator: Did anybody in Sulfa know about Shaw? Vincent: Not that I know of, no. Investigator: You were taking these cars over to Bomont, Texas? Vincent: Yes Investigator: Who were you selling them to over there? Vincent: To a used car dealer in Bomont, Texas. Investigator: Do you recall his name? Vincent: No, sir. That's all I'd do was take them there at night time and park them. . . Investigator: How would you be paid? Vincent: They'd just send me the money, by mail. Invesitgator: It would come to you through the mail. Vincent: Every car I'd get, they'd give me a hundred dollars. Investigator: Who set you up in it? Vincent: Stealing the cars and everything else? This come — through with Shaw and his friends and different other things, I mean, he introduced me to this. guy. Shaw really didn't know about me stealing the cars and that, but he introduced me to some people and that led to this and pretty soon I was stealing cars. Investigator: Do you recall the used car dealership? Vincent: No, sir, I don't. . Investigator: You stated that at the time Kennedy was killed, you - were in LTI. Vincent: Yes Page 44
HW 50529 35 Investigator: Approximately how long after the assassination was it that you escaped? Vincent: MMmmmm, I'd say about, 3 or 4 months. Investigator: Three or four months thereafter? So this would have been into '64 then? Vincent: Right. Investigator: Now you escaped, where did you go? Vincent: I went to New Orleans to see Mr. Shaw, I stayed there for awhile. He kept on talking, if I'd turn myself in he'd get me out, different other things, and I didn't want to go back. So, I left, stole a car in New Orleans, went back to Sulfa where I got busted and they sent me back to LTI. Investigator: How did they bust you there, just as an escapee or did they catch you in a stolen car? ‘ Vincent: They caught me in a stolen car. Investigator: In a stolen car. Who caught you? Vincent: The Sulfa City police. No. I take that back. It was a policeman from Texas, coming from Lake Charles, going back to Texas. He'd just got finished going to a con~ vention or some sort of thing and I was going towards Vinton (sp) Louisiana, and me being so young and really didn't know how to drive that well, I was sagging all over the road and he pulled me over and that whenever I got busted. Investigator: And he turned you over to, uh . «+? Vincent: Sulfa City Police. Investigator: How long were.you out? Vincent: On escape? Uh, let' see. . . about two days, three days. Investigator: Two to three days. During that period of time you were in New Orleans? Vincent:. About, I got there about, I'd say about 8:00, 9:00 that morning. I stayed until that night, then I left. Investigator: How did you get there? vincent: New Orleans? I stole a car in Monroe, Louisiana, at the bowling alley and drove it to New Orleans. Docld:322763247 Page 45
HW 50529 36 Investigator: You in LTI at Monroe? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: I believe you stated that when you arrived there, there was a second, the second man who had been with Oswald, was present? Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Was he already there when you got there? Did he appear to be staying there? Vincent: No, sir, he was there talking to Shaw and stuff, you know, he was complaining about Oswald getting killed, and, you know, different other things, and that he wanted to get out, uh, Shaw gave him some more money, told him just to lay low, leave the state, leave the country if possible, different other things. For him to see his boss, and just a normal conversation about him trying to get away. ' Investigator: Did, at any time while you were there, did they discuss the assassination of the President? Vincent: He talked a little bit about, he was saying he didn't know if he had really hit him or not, and that he was off, you know, and uh, he was scared, and, uh, that he didn't think nobody seen him, you know, jump over the fence and different other things, he said he got rid of the gun going to Houston, and stuff, nothing really about the President himself, he was just talking about his gettaway mostly. Investigator: Did he say anything about how he fired his shots? Vincent: Not actually, no, you know, that he shot once from what he said, from what I understood, he did shoot one time. Investigator: Did he think he hit anybody? Vincent: He said that he thought that he'd missed him, speaking of the President. He didn't really say if he'd hit anybody or not. He mentioned Connally's name, that Connally got in his way, or something like that. Docld: 322763247 Page 46
37 Investigator: What did he say about Connally? vincent: He said Connally was hit, but that he didn't know if he hit him or not, and he didn't know if he actually hit the President or not, cause Connally got in his way. Cause whenever Connally was shot, he said, after Con- nally was shot, Connally fell forward in the path of him and the President, to where it made it difficult for him to shoot, I guess, or whatever. Investigator: Did he give any indication of what type of weapon he was using? _ Vincent: A rifle of some type, I don't really know what make or nothing else. Investigator: And, where did he say he was? Vincent: Where he said he was? He was in between the tree, a tree, and a wooden fence by the building, away from the building that Oswald was in. After he shot, he jumped over the fence and got into a car that somebody was waiting in for him and they left and went to Houston. Investigator: Did he say who was driving the car? Vincent: No sir, he didn't. Investigator: Do you have any idea who was driving the car?- Vincent: I wouldn't have no slightest idea. Investigator: Did he give you any indication who he met with in Houston, or how he got rid of the gun? ' vincent: No sir, he didn't. Investigator: How was it that they happened to talk about this as openly as they did in front of you? . Vincent: Well, they actually didn't talk all that openly in front of me because, like, I'd be in the bedroom, or I'd be in the kitchen, or something, and I could just, you could say, eavesdrop on them, because, like I said, you know, I was, they'd call it getting involved, or whatever, with Shaw. You could say I cared for him a little bit. I know he cared for me.. And, uh, I was more or less, I really was young, too young, to really know what — was really going on, but I was curious, you could say, for being that young, just sneaking around, trying to listen to what they were saying. Investigator: I believe you mentioned that Terracotti allegedly went to Cuba? HW 50529 DBocld:3227632747 Page 47
HW 50529 38 Vincent: He went somewheres, I'd said Cuba, I don't really know where he went. He left, it was June, May, June, some- wheres around there, uh... . Investigator: This was before the shooting? Vincent: Yes sir, He left and I don't really know where he went. I know that Ruby was looking for him and that's how I found out that he took a trip, cause Ruby was complaining about how he couldn't get in touch with Terracotti because he was out of the country and stuff. Investigator: At any time during these visits you would make to Shaw's house, was there ever any mention made of Shaw, Terracotti, Cella (sp) Oswald, any of them taking a trip on a boat? Vincent: No sir, not that I know of. Investigator: No mention of going on a boat of any kind, or a ship? Vincent: No sir. Investigator: On how many occasions did you see these FBI agents? Vincent: Just once. Investigator: Just one time? Did it appear to you that they were assisting Shaw, or were they there questioning Shaw? Vincent: I'd say that they were assisting him, because they kept on telling to get the information that they needed, and they brought him some paper work, folder, and different other things, telling him to take care of the business they way they supposed to or else, and uh, things like this, you know, that nature. Investigator: How long after you were picked up that second time in the stolen car that you got in New Orleans, was it that you went to Quincy. Vincent: Uh, let's see, that was in '65, I went to Quincy in '66, in May, I believe, May 12 of "66. Investigator: So this is couple or three years after you had first met Shaw. Had you and Shaw continued your rela- tionship over these years? Vincent: Right. We would write to each other and he would send me things and different other things. Whenever I would run off or after I got out in '65, I went back to see him a couple of times. Nothing really big but I went back, I didn't really see nobody or talk to nobody, but Docld: 322763247 Page 435
HW 50529 39 we kept out relationship up until about '67, ‘68, something like that. Investigator: I believe you said that Shaw attempted to get you out of Dequincy? Vincent: Right. He told me that he was going to get me out, and which I believed he did get me out, cause I stayed exactly one year like he told me I would. Tf remember the Warden called me in his office and told me that he would like to send me home for a Christmas visit, and things, but there wasn't nowheres for me to go, you know, to stay with anybody, at that, you know, me and my parents we really don't get along all that well, and I tried to talk him into sending me to New Orleans to Mr. Shaw's house, and they wouldn't let me cause he wasn't a relative or nothing. Investigator: Did you mention Shaw by name? Vincent: Right, and, uh. . Investigator: Who was the warden? Vincent: I think there was Cormyay (sp) right, Mr. Cormyay was warden. , Investigator: This was at Dequincy? Vincent: Right, and, uh, they denied, the judge and them wouldn't let me go home for a visit and stuff. (Investigator changes tape) Docld: 322763247 Page 49
HW 50529 Side A, Tape 2 Investigator: So they denied your request to visit with Mr. Vincent: Right. They wouldn't let me go home or visit or nothing. It wasn't that they denied my request _to go home for Christmas directly to him or anything. They just denied me going home at all because I said I didn't have nowheres to go for Christmas furlow. So, I didn't go. You know I asked them to let me go but they wouldn't let me. . Investigator: How long did you and -° .- maintain your contact’'with each other? | Mr. Vincent: ‘Till after I got out of the quincey in '67. I just quit going down there any everything. He would keep calling and stuff but I wouldn't go back down. Investigator: What caused the breakup in the relationship? Mr. Vincent: I guess staying away from him for so long. You know. I don't really know. I just lost interest. Investigator: Did you ever have any contact with him during the period of time that he was on trial by former District Attorney Garrison? Mr. Vincent: Yes sir. I was. contacted by him. Investigator: By Shaw? Mr. Vincent: By Shaw and Mr. Vincent Marcello. Telling me to just be cool and don't say nothing. That they don't Docld: 322763247 Page. 50
HW 50529 -2- have nothing on Shaw concerning the conspiracy or anything else and that they got something working and they were going to get me out and they promised me all kinds of things just to keep quiet. | Investigator: Where were you at the time? Mr. Vincent: I was locked up. Investigator: Where? Mr. Vincent: Up here. Investigator: Here at Angola? Mr. Vincent: Yes. Investigator: And they would call you here at Angola? Mr. Vincent: They wouldn't realy call here like whenever I first got the phonecall I was in jail in Lake Charles ’ waiting to come here. Investigator: How would you get to a telephone? Mr. Vincent: They would bring me down. They would call it an emergency phonecall and I got one phonecall from him while I was here and as.a matter of fact, right after I got finished talking to him they locked me up ina cell block, you know, because I was running my head to a premium and. said I'd like to run ‘off from here and never come back, - you know, that I hated this place, so they locked me up for security reasons. Docld: 322763247 Page 51
HW 50529 Investigator: You mentioned that one thing that you were fearful of here being here in Angola was the fact that there were I believe you said three men who were associates of Carlos Marcello who are now here at Angola and seemingly seem to run the show. Is. that correct? Mr. Vincent: That is correct. Investigator: Who are they? Mr. Vincent: One of them is Peter Mule, Kirksey McCard Nix, Jr., and John Falser. Investigator: What are they here for? Mr. Vincent: They were the ones that got time for the Carso killing.. Investigator: Where.did that happen? Mr. Vincent: In New Orleans. Investigator: Was it a hit? Mr. Vincent: Yes, sir. Investigator: And they're now here and they pretty well run their own show. Mr. Vincent: Yes. Investigator: Have you ever had any contact with the three of them? Mr. Vincent: I don't really talk to John Falser too much. He has been telling on a lot of people since he's been here so Pete.and Jr. cut him loose and they don't talk to him — Docld: 322763247 Page 52
HW 50529 - 4- rod no more. I stay in the dormatory in Oak Four in the main prison for a year with Pete and Jr. I come through AU with Pete and we're pretty - or may I say we used to be pretty close ‘till the incident with the gun and everything else come about. Investigator: Were they the three that were involved with the gun? Mr. Vincent: Yes, sir. I was the one that brought the gun into the prison and gave it to Pete Mule and from there he done whatever he done with it. I don't really know, but he gave it or sold it to somebody. Investigator: Let me check this tape and make sure it is... O.K. You brought a gun in for them? Mr. Vincent: Yes, sir. Investigator: Where did you bring it in from? Mr. Vincent: The rodeo grounds. Investigator: 0.K. Was it dropped there for you to pick up? Mr. Vincent: Yes, sir. A lady brought it up here and left it in the bleachers for us. Investigator: O.K. And you picked it up and took it to them and then subsequently decided that you should advise the prison authorities of... Mr. Vincent: I advised them of it. I even tried to help Docld: 322763247 Page 53
HW 50529 -5- them find it. I went and shook down the boiler room with the warden and everything else. I sat down and talked to them for about two weeks. I revealed all the drug traffic that is taking place in here, who's bringing it, who is dealing drugs up here, who's running the strong-arm operations up here, who's doing the killings for such and such people and I told them everything I knew. That's ali that happened. They didn't do nothing about it. They turned around and locked me up in Camp Jay and left me at Camp Jay for nine months and didn't do nothing about the rest. Investigator: Did they ever find the gun? | Mr. Vincent: No sir. They never did really look for it. Investigator: You stated that you were implicated along with some of Marcello's people in some possible murders? Mr. Vincent: Yes, sir. . Investigator: Is it involved this Carso thing? Mr. Vincent: That's one of them. Investigator: One of them. Would you care to tell us about any of the others? . Mr. Vincent: Well one guy this happened right outside of Dallas in Ft. Worth. A guy from there come down and took ‘a girl from one of Vincent Marcello's places. She was a prostitute. So he sent me and Mule - Pete Mule - to Ft. Worth to get the guy and get the girl back and we got Docld: 3227632747 Page 54