AGENCY: HSCA RECORD NUMBER:  180-10116-10327 RECORD SERIES: TRANSCRIPTS OF EXECUTIVE SESSION HEARINGS AGENCY FILE NUMBER : Document Information ORIGINATOR: HSCA FROM: TO: TITLE: _COMMITTEE BUSINESS - EXECUTIVE SESSION DATE: 07/13/1978 PAGES: 29 SUBJECTS : HSCA, MESTHODOLOGY HSCA, ADMINISTRATION DOCUMENT TYPE: TRANSCRIPT “CLASSIFICATION: — Unclassified RESTRICTIONS : = Open in Full CURRENT STATUS: — Redact DATE OF LAST REVIEW: = 08/17/1993 OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : Box 1. Folder title: Executive session committee business. v9.1 Docld: 3272766682 Page 1 JFK Assassination System Identification Form Agency Information
13 | Dodd, Ford, Fithian, nagar, McKinney and Sawyer. ARD/Piland , a i . . | i dq mS oo EXECUTIVE SESSION E 2h a (& (COMMITTEE BUSENESS ESS NEE Tine @ 4 : : - (Barrer July-13, 1978 | 6. . ° 7 4 | a | a USSF House of Representatives, amr | 7° a oo . | OL - . ee Committee on Assassinations, a e oo , q ‘The = fonmitee met; pursuant to. “notice, at Lo: a a. mn. : 10 in oon 1310, Longworth House “Office Building, ‘the “oggesinte | 1 1 ‘Louis Stokes  (praiiman 0 of the 12 ponmittee) “presiding: ae a | 12 Present: Representatives Stokes (presiding) , Fauntroy, 14" Also present: G. Robert: Blakey, T. Howarth, E. Berning and 7 15 R. Morrison, Arotessional featt emer 300 7TH STREET, §.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 7 oe 17 |. Pre gpa ne dommittee will. come to order, 18 | The Chair will recognize Mr. Blakey for a statement. ~ 19 Mr. Blakey. Mr. Chairman, the subject to be brought before 20/7) the gommittee this morning basically deals with the nature of the 21 investigation. It would be appropriate to go into executive - © 22 | session. — Sfekes oo 23 | ‘Bee Chairman, _ The Chair will entertain a motion. 24 |. ; . Mr. Fauntroy. So move. 25 The Chairman. It has been properly moved that the fommittee ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. DoclId: 322766682 Page 2? ,
13 14 19 300 7TH STREET, §.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 21, @ 22 23 24 25 go into executive session at this time for the reasons stated. Y the fierk will call the roll. us. Berning. Mr. Stokes. Mr. Stokes. . Aye. ~Ms. Berning. “Mr. Devine. [ko response. ] . o a Ms. Berning. Mr. Preyer. | fio response} ao | ; C "Ms. Berning. Me! ‘Fauntroy. Mr. Fauntroy. Aye . : | Ms. Berning. | Mr. Thone. 7 (x0 response.} oo 15 . ; Ms. Berning. Mrs. Burke. — (So response] : nae Ms. Bering. Mr. Sawyer. Mr. Sawyer. Aye. Ms. Berning. Mr. Dodd. Mr. Dodd. Aye. Ms. Berning. Mr. Ford. Mr. Ford. Aye. Ms. Berning. Mr. Fithian. Mr. Fithian. Aye. Ms. Berning: Mr. Edgar. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32727666382 Page 3
w 5. a = £7 Ss. 8 io) a 9 Zz §, 10 a 11 BS g 12 @:. 7) Lot. "| Nn & 14 a eo 2 15 a oe} 2 16 a, 5 17 a a nm 18 E . o 19 20 | 21 e ” - 23 24. 25.. ought. to address. itsels to. is two, immunities on: othe: King. side. | the  donmittes has. before it a resolution asking. ‘for state: pexmis~ on the way to the gonmittes at this time. 7, i: Edgar ar. . Aye.” Ms. "Seong. ‘Seven ayes, Mr. Chairman. — - Shkes "are Chairman; Seven members having voted in the affirmative, this meeting is now in executive. session and all members of ‘the Gre” public R02) asked to exclude themselves. | fimexeupon, unauthorized persons left the ‘hearing. room, and emp fonmittee proceeded in executive session} Mr. Blakey. our. Chairman, the first issue that, = she Femi sion to go. to ‘court “bo secure inmunity for clarence ndoes and Naomi Denny. ut note that .. it. will be required that we have eight committee members present - auring this. Might I suggest ‘the parliamentary procedure that the - matter be considered and a slow vote be An, a undertaken. — ‘Tr. understand that a proxy from Cheieman Preyer is. [Paused] = Mr. Blakey. My suggestion was that after the gommittee has considered the suggestion for immunity for these two individuals, it might be appropriate to undertake a slow vote. I understand that Mr. Preyer's proxy is under way, and we need eight votes on the issue. | _ We have seven people present now. I would be glad to answer “any questions about either of the ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32727666532 Page 4
two immuniti es. : re) . __ Stokes 7 tre Chairmane “Any, questions? , 6 ‘ . . , de J 3 | We may move on to something else and then come back to a) i 7 Do:wei have:.ai motion? in nm % | Mr. Fithian. I so move, Mr. Chairman. Ss 7 L The. Chairman. It has ‘been properly moved, then, that the g 2 |fonmittes « authorize the. requested immunity. order. . a _ | i I: | : : 1 ! H OF | The drerk. will call the roll. wz 1d} Ms. Berning. Mr. Stokes. GS. . He _ oe re vlog BU | ‘Phe Chairman. Aye. - . ee oo > 125 Ms..Berning. Mr. Devine. Gangs the Pap @ = i | {x10 response. | [No Neds irniee = ts | Ms. Berning. Mr. McKinney. | 2 45 | 7 fio response.] =. 16 | .Ms. Berning. Mr. Fauntroy. a VW Mr. Fauntroy. Aye..- g 8 Ms. Berning. Mr. Thone. - TF | [x0 response. } ~ | < a Ms. Berning. Ms. Burke. 2 3 . a eooresee ]xv0 respons e.) Ms, Berning. Mr. Sawyer. Mr. Sawyer. Aye. Ms. Berning. Mr. Dodd. Mr. Dodd. Aye. i ALDERSON RESCATING COMPANY, INC. Docld:32266682 Page 5
! i bo He oo 1 | Ms. Berning, Mr. Ford.. ! i 7 a , . . _ fo. a oe 2 | Mr. Ford. . Aye. Se ae Ce ne i 3 | ‘Ms. Berning. Mr. Fithian. qt: no : - o ee =. 3 Ms. Berning. Mr. Edgar. | a 6] Mr. Edgar. Ayes. a Bo a ~ | 9 hei Ui heast > _ Las AS | & | Jone Bowie Cite Wi11 suspend the counting of the roll | ene a subsequent time, and we will come back to the | 3 oy roll call. Loliteg i . H = oe a “Mrs Blakey. | Mr. “chaizman, ‘the next and probably most | = 1 himportant item on the agenda is the fonnittee's s. ‘supplemental i “1 | sonains request.. i The fonmittee | has before it a memorandum outlining the nature of that request, coupled with a number of supporting | REPORTERS: BOTLOTHG . i i | pages. Basically the outline is where | we have been and where | 1s we can reasonably expect to go ‘between now and December 31g. = | a 7 | the budget has. been cut ‘by ‘the staft really about as deep | z “ie we can. I think it is fair to say that it is razor thin a | | = [wie the expectation that we go through December 31am continuing S 20 | both investigations, frankly, or at least keeping the options oe | | a=. 7! |}open to continue them both right through December. It is ree 22 | particularly important on the¢King side that that option be ; eC Y : ! 3 | kept open, I note that. over the spbtvear period what had been ai | estimated as a $5 million budget, would be, if this supplemental a | . . | ALSERSOM REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Docld: 322766652 Page 6
| were adopted, be only 1. 8 percent off the original estimate. oe) tw estimated the budget so well on all occasions. Te the House de had given us the money we had originally asked for, of $500, 000, | eam I would commend on the record ‘Tom Howarth for having : 5 S| the only amount that we really would have been off was the - -s | value of the basic scientific projects, and that, indeed, was S 7 a matter brought | to their attention at the time. ‘We didn't | Ss = | include iv it in the original budget because we. dia not know th a | . 3 a January and February exactly what, ‘those ‘figures would be? ae sow Dive aia, r xemenber specifically Mr. “Preyer indicated to them: 2 W) that’ we would probably ‘come. back for a “supplemental, on ‘that. - , = 2 | 80 in effect, what we are 2 doing is coming back for a | espera 5 \ ; @ | z 2) on the scientific projects, and the relatively : minor cost z 2 | overrun which | is primarily attributable to the cost of £ travel ae # | . | ar & Is | and telephones. a Oo oe we | ; oy bly : ep me Chairman} Questions of any members? = a re > - a oe ae o Mr. Fithian? | | ae z 3 | My Fithian... Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | 5 | 7 | = 7 I would just ask that Mr, Blakey and. Mr. Howarth provide | . 5 0 us with some information as to what happens in December. I | ——- "1 | haven't gotten all the. way through the budget, but obviously { ’ “A nm i) me; our whole investigation will be done. ‘and public hearings will ; | reporting, — but I would trust that the phase out W | | | = il *- 1 be done. We. will still have the need for staff to do the. | | Mr. sleney. In the best of all - possible worlds, which | : ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, [NC. Docld: 327766682 Page fF
this is not, we will end on December 31se, hand in our report, Ww, and quit. - Because this is not the best of all possible world SUEY « ETE |, 4 + | back to the » Congress for probably 90 days | extension into the > - the likely result will be- is that che sonnittee will have to gc i House for that final mopping up operation if we could get a Sj next Congress and Spend an as yet undetermined | amount of el ‘ . | = 4 a é | certainly a . relatively small figure to, maintain: a skeleton | = + | bs y | force, & to process the “report through the agencies, “through | ~ a ve Ss 8.) the government Printing office, and to. transfer its files | eee E [oo SF to wherever. they will ultimately be transferred, This budget | S. Se re es CO RL, | = 10° aims to end us at the end of this Congress when technically S . i a errs oo. ok gc Pou life is over with anyway. on cae Y xz, in fact, we determine in December when it will | Z : | = iq @ =: 13 1 be appropriate to. determine that there is a need for a wind-up | = if | = i = 2 | time, this isa practice virtually universally followed by | a aati x | e | domi ctees. _ For example, all of our bills won't come in. i = i a eo ae a fae December for the month of December. # there will have to | im "peek the skeleton | force around for 6o xs 90 days just to process | = "| Se bills, but what we are talking about is a relatively routine @ : = '? | process of cleanup in the next Congress, certainly no hearings | - <i certainly no investigation after December 3]a. | ser | #ue Chairman, Mr. Fithian? . £23 an | : fous oe a @ d =< “- i Mr. Fithian. And one further question. 23 ' Might it be possible to never have to. go back to the i ' -+ | } | House Administration simply to take on the responsibility of i ~ 5 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, ING. BDociId: 3227666682 Page 6
payment. of the remainder of the staff to finish out the ne purely routine? | ss. OW we. Blakey. No; I think what happens is that all See ‘Committees. of the House die at the end of the congress, and technically every committee around here doesn’ t exist for one 2 r . 6 | day, and then you must be reauthorized in. the new Congress. = 72 This Congress cannot bind anything beyond, the 31st. Ss 7] question clear, obviously. _ c i. oo g f iceuanebe anil type” expenditures, ae 3 ja) than to retain or ask that this pommittes | be reconstituted for @ 7 13 any. part of the next congress, do you follow ww nePaly Tr other z “| words, whoever was” doing the mopping up exercises “would be 5s E is employees. of the House Administration Committee. Mr. plakey. 1 suppose that could be done. It would So. = probably. be. just as simple ‘to have the continuing resolution | “| | | | Mr. “Fithian, No? | I understand that. oT didn’ it make my a ae i 7 | ! | | | | i | | i | | and put us in, and having explained at the time this was . | G x mop-up. It would be appropriate to have our life continued fo on | | | | i | legal purposes so that the staff could represent the dommittee | | in negotiations with the agencies. That is what I think may =t . > ‘ 3N0 7TH STREET, | happen. . The commitment has always been from the agencies to / AN AS nw b | j } disclose the information to us subject to a review before . 1 final declasdification. The memorandums of understanding are between this gonni ttee and the Department of Justice, this ie # ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3227666582 Page 9.
Ww ! ty fommittee and the CIA. It would be appropriate to have this . | | fommittes finally negotiate those. positions. gd i. Edgare Mr. Chairman. Stokes . | > | - Bers Chairman, Mr. Edgar. | | - | E $ | Mr. Edgar. Just a. point following up on. Mr. Fithian! s 3 Z | re would hope that some research has been done on & 7 exactly how to do what you are talking about. wocouse Je 1 I 3 a remember the last. ‘two congresses, we “took: the. first st yd weeks a ah of January | off, ana the first. legislative Gay was. “not until 2 at mid-January ‘at. ‘the earliest, 18th) 2 19th, , 208g) aaa Taare is a> pa 2 M1 | great deal of organizational work that is done ‘there, and I | | 7 S 2 | would hope that we wouldn't find ourselves in a position im 7 oe : ia | we die on the 3st and have to ask our staff to be volunteers | | = . = 4 | for a month. | : i ! ur. ‘Blakey. Tt is unlikely that ‘the staff would, given . = is | the history. of the last similar. request. | Nevertheless, there ” i7 | has to be a resolution introduced by House Administration for | : "| all Committees, Judiciary on, and it would be appropriate to. = iy | put us in there, and it would be extremely unusual for us to 5 a6 | be taken out. It.would require a vote for us to be taken | a | shou out. And if it is put. Simply as clean-up, which is what it would oo © wd ‘« i be, I doubt that it would present an issue of controversy. . an | | RS OC ‘~ The Chairman. I think maybe what Mr. “Edgar has in mind | isa pay lag system that occurs ° ‘in January. Mr. Blakey. It is only a gay and every Committee suffers | Docld: 32266662 Paije 10 : ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. ,
10 ow others. | me a a ed giaimef Well, we would. ‘undergo a period where in | zy | pan fonsittes would be no dfferent than any of the. !.. | i | | the Democratic Caucus we go “through the process. of electing 7 4 2 = o hairmen of committees, etc., and so forth, and until such i , 4 | time as ‘you navefbproval of that, | there: are no gonmittees, ~ ~ | . = ar don't believe, in operation. 7 | |oMes Blakey. | the staffs continue ‘from year to year, | “thoug we D.C, ion - | They are paid continuous from year to years Mr. Bdgar. Boe the staff continues because the “Jurisdicts a WASHINGTON ; and the ‘authority for the stafé, “for or the fonnittecy goes from Congress *to Congress. Mr. Blakey. No. At the beginning of each Congress. ne: an: ee — REPORTERS BUILDING, | "| there must be a new, in the House, a new resolution creating - | . | each, ommittee anew, including the Judiciary Committee. It - < | does not continue. - ‘oye Sine we Chairman That is the first order of business? z an Mr.°Biakey. Yes. | = isi pPess ze Mr. Howarth. Also SGGUEa6y they have to putmbnm a | c ye ' a ay resolution to finance the fommittees on a temporary basis, | | which covers all fommittees that are in existence. If you on) i recall, the resolution continues the gommittees more or less | : ny SASS iN ’ { Be yy @ Re 234 | at the same level of expenditure that they had the previous 24 | | year until the House acts on their: funding resolution for the | current year. S80 all gommittees have to be extended zl ; i Docld:32266682 Page 11 ALDSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.