123 ; also numerous outtakes or sections of those interviews. which were not included in the film, which I have not. seen, But the film itself is perhaps the single most important document “of now-deceased witnesses and what they had to say. ; D I had thought that perhaps if the film and. the outtakes “were sv subjectd to a psychological stress evaluation, it “might aid in establishing the validity of the stories that: “appear an the film. Mr. Stokes. Thank you very much, a “ Chairman Downing, Further questions? a Mr. Dodd. Mr. Chairman? Chairman Downing. Yes, Mr. Dodd. ne Mr. Dodd. A couple of things. 14. oe ‘The letter, letter or document, I guess affidavit “regarding | “Agent Hosty in his statements regarding Oswald, Me Groden, Yes, sir, Mr. Dodd. > was that. not eventually shown to have. been || a misstatement by Mr. Hosty, and in fact the Dallas Police re ‘Department There was some speculation as to whether or not they should be shifting blame from them to. the FBI, and a "therefore that affidavit was questioned | to have ‘been es TPes testi mony of the ea ; different from thé(officer who overheard Mr. Hosty make ‘that — ou “statement? ms 7 Mr. _ Groden. In this particular case, and where it deals. with, that particular document, I am not sure, The document . ‘Doeld: 32266815 |r
ar Docld:32266815- zt. a Mr. got there. way I dealt with it. Dodd. Groden. ‘that that bullet 4 that that damge was. caused by a. bullet. How about sweisisiemncs As far as I know, itself is one of the few exceptions that I went into, . Bue what you say may indeed be ‘true, Gf suse as that document appears in the report, claim to know one way or the other. chroming on the inside of the limousine, 124° away, from the photographic evidence and into documentary evidence. . I do not know of. such a history of that particular document. that is “the | What you said may be true and I do not the dent on the in which President Kennedy was travelings Was that dent ever. determined to have" ‘been caused by a bullet or were there statements or any | “sort of testimony that later surfaced which indicated ‘that, that had been caused by something entirely different? a ait was never ‘established r believe there has been testimony to the contrary, but it. ; has never been established to a certainty how that dent | 18, And. certainly no evidence has ever come. forward. as to the damage to the window ‘itself. dent Kennedy, Mr. Dodd. Lastly, with regard to the movement of Presi- being forced back and forced forward, did you . ‘happen to speak to any pathologist or ballistics experts: or people who would be upon the impact of a bullet? Me. ‘Groden. “Yes, sir , I have, experts in the movement of a. ‘human, body. I have spoken to several®: [°°
|| doctors. I have heard the testimony of E pathologists, “forensic pathologists, and a great many other people, ant ‘people who are familiar with reactions to bodies as they ae on care, struck by bullets, both human and animal. And the only. particular instance that has ever come to Light whereby an. - “opposite effect would hold true, as to the transition of “momentum from the bullet, would be in something galled” "decerebrate rigidity, whereby there is immediate SSeeae | “of the body and a violent reaction going in . any porebte sien . way. It would not have to go backward or forward, “it can ee in any particular direction. oF But the one characteristic of this particular phenomenon, 3 7 1 have been told, is a stiffening of the body. What we Peread |} seeing 3 in the film is not a stiffening at all but, “rather, ay rag doll effect. The visual thing, and that is the only way. tr can deal with it, visual reaction is that the President was. struck and forced or physically pushed backward — : from the source or | whatever it is that caused him to 0 teact. © Given the other evidence, including the fact which L dia ‘not’ mention during my presentation, that approximately 23 - ‘feet, as I recall, behind and to the left of the: point of ff impace | on the President" s head, a large piece of skull cami a was found and it has been pushed backwards from: the point cree + ‘bE impact and away from the the grassy knoll, exactly. in . “accordance with the movement of .the President" s body.
‘Ironically enough, the exact motion of the President's || boay from moment of impact ‘until he hits the seat behind him, it is in an exact direct. line with the grassy knoll, “both i. “the: end of the stockade fence and the end of the retaining, walt, on an exactly straight line. | GQ Again, there is no absolute proof that the shot came ne “from that point. But the President responds, or seems, eto - réspond, on such a way that it. seems quite strange. certainly. “you have all seen the reaction of the President' s ee ie "seems quite strange | that there was never a. formal peneton of the travel of his body in the Warren Commission report. or I do not claim to know the answer why t there was not; “but 1p | visvalty, photographically, and according to the shine | a || of eye and ear witnesses, £t least one shot did ‘come from - a Phe right front and that is “the. only way I have ‘been able to deal with it, that and the photographic evidence. ot ~ Ghairman Down Downing. ‘Thank you, Mr. Dodd. = My, Fauntroy? ~ Mr. Fauntroy. Mr.Groden, in the body of Mewrainrs i “developed over the past 13 years by people who have been « oo hy _ looking into this matter, there have been, alleged, a number, ‘of. oe which . fae photographs, have either been ignored or suppressed, or in fee |) some instances destroyed. I noticed in the course’ of your. “presentation a number of films which apparently were not the oe “Zapruder films.
| Mr. Fauntroy. Were any of these films, say, thé famed 7 ““pabushka lady's" film? aoe a Mr. Groden. No, sir, none of those were the famed “"babushka lady's" film. S oe I believe you described that film quite “ay "babushka lady" was a young lady who appears on. the “opposite - * side of the street from Zapruder. For years the Ferteies . “noticed she was there in many photographs and films ‘and ‘thats. 9 || she does appear to be panning the President with a motion“) picture camera. From where she was standing at the point “of * the impact on the President's head, she would have filmed | “the entire grassy knoll. area. | a me “I have an unconfirmed correspondence with several people: : ae Texas who claim to know who this young lady is. and ‘that ne Tis in fear of her life, but she described in exact. “detail” oe ‘where. the “babushka lady" was, what she vas wesiing: wa every single aspect of what had happened. ‘This. lady makes oe | “charge, which is as yet unverified, that she. was: ‘approached ~ the day after the assassination and that she had vert a “film, it had not been processed yet; that two people had ‘approached her, one of which she later ventatively identified a6. someone else, and I would like to not Bo into ‘that at “this exact point, pending further investigation. Ss She claims that this film was taken from her by | two. men