11 12 14 16 17 18 20 21 @ 22 , 23 24 25 14 Gp Mr. Devine.? Have we other photographs we could have identified at the same time to lessen the focus on this one? Mrs. Burke. I suspect there are other photographs. Chaivman - . ~~ Stokes. When you reléase this photo and ask the press to find out for. you who he is, doesn't this lend credence then to precisely what the press is saying? "See there, I told you; they haven't found out anything." I think you just invite that reaction from the press. Mrs. Burke. Of course, we could indicate we have found a photograph of the umbrella man, which nobody else has until now. Mr. Devine. But we would want to talk to him as a witness rather than as a suspect. Mr. Fauntroy. It would be nice to clear that up one way or the other. Mr. McKinney. One thing the critics will say is that they didn't follow up the umbrella man. Mr. Dodd. They are going to be saying things for the next hundred years. If we go into this thing with that in mind, we will be basket cases. Mr. Fauntroy. The idea of a fellow having an umbrella on a sunny day that is.opened’uptjust as the President is coming by 2 Mr. Goldem: Th, Mese=Besiee, This photograph is after the shooting. He is calmly sitting there on the curb. DoclId: 322766630 Pape 10
18 19 20 21 @ 22 23 24 25 15 D wwe. ‘Fauntroy. This photograph is after the shooting. CHiN st Okes . Yes. Mr.McKinney. He is probably lifting his black umbrella to indicate some protest. Mr. Fauntroy. After he is shot he sits down and says "Well, let's wait here." Mr. Devine. Do you know what was the temperature that day? Mrs, Galdemits. MiseBeelsem About 65. Mr. Devine. Some people have an umbrella to shield themselves from the hot sun on a hot day, but 65 in November wouldn't apply. Mr. Preyer. Mr. Chairman, would it be possible for Mr. . draft | Blakey to @favgiep the propose to use to release this and see whether it would PEOPOSea press release they would meet with your approval? I agree that how it is presented is crucial. Of course, it could be misinterpreted regardless of how it is presented. We are going to be a loser on this one any way we go. It does have the thrust of a new photograph and if it is presented in the right light so it does not appear we have “bought the umbrella man theory, it might indicate the committee's desire to be thorough and follow up all leads. Otherwise, we could be accused of not following up an obvious step. DoclId: 322766630 Pape 11
16 17 18 20 21  ) 22 23. 24 25 16 F ur. Devine. Must he be identified with the umbrella? Mrs. Burke. We could say this was a man whose photo- graph we have and we have not been able to identify him and if anybody knows him, will:they please write us. | Mr.McKinney. Are there any modern photography techniques that will upgrade those, pictures? Ar. 6. Id-smithe. SEIS A No. This is about the size of a pinhead in an eight by ten. It has already been enlarged and en- hanced and the grain is caused by the lack of information. There is no information there. If you saw the original 8 by 10, this is maybe just a cflepinch 4 the umbrella man may be offe inch by offe inch and the photograph is eiftht by a Mr. Dodd. If you use anything like that, you are going to get confusion over which one you are talking about. Chairman ase Stokes. Time-Life has never printed this picture? It is just something that was in their files? Mr. Hlakey. Yes. Chairman e nM Stokes. How do you establish the fact, Micky; that it was a photograph taken after? Mr. Goldsmith. If you saw the rest of the picture, you would see in the background people running around, up the grassy knoll. There was a series of seven photographs. This is one of the-seven. You can see people running in the background. It is just mass confusion. The photographs before DoclId: 322766630 Pape 12
10 12 od 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 r 22 23 24 25. 17 the assassination, people are standing there watching. Gf ur. Devine. How many seconds per. frame would you estimate? Mr. Goldsmith. I couldn't say that. Mr.Devine. Each frame is supposed to be in a second segment. Is. this just a straight photo and not part of a motion picture? ‘Mr.Goldsmith. That is right. Charrman . , Me Stokes. What does Zapruder show the umbrella man doing? Mr. Goldsmith. YOu can only see the umbrella. You can see it. opening up, being raised, lowered, raised again, simultaneous with the shooting. _ . Zapruder When Gaperee. pans in you see the umbrella go up and down but you then continue watching the President and you lose the umbrella. Chairman . , , Ma Stokes. What is the proximity of the umbrella man to the President's car? | Mr.Goldsmith. He is standing on the edge of the curb. I don't think he shot the President. Chairman . . , n Mee Stokes. We have this man sitting down while you say people are running around all behind him with the President having just been shot. He is raising his umbrella and then calmly sits down? Mr. Goldsmith. He was raising and lowering the umbrella DoclId: 322766630 Page 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 rs 22 de” 23 i 24 25 20 time, it might be appropriate for three members of the committee to go out and see him. I would suppose that prior to contacting him ina formal sense, it-might be appropriate for the chairman to call him and outline for him the general areas of our interest and concern. P Most of the other principal figures in the Warren Commission and cabinet who we have talked to, of all of them, obviously President Ford presents a special problem. Mr. Devine. I know he has accepted an engagement at the Danny Thomas Hospital out there. | I could in-quire and find out when he will be in the Washington area. Mrs. Burke. Given our financial situation, if he is here, it would be preferred if we could do it here. Mr. Devine. He will be glad to do this without publicity because if the word gets out we are going to questio him, it would be difficult. Perhaps he could be met somewhere 6ff the Hill. Mrs. Burke. I am sure that could be arranged. Mr.Dodd. This doesn't relate directly to President Ford, but are we going to bother with inhabitants of the car 2 Hr, Bla key. MiG ree Libaoes: We have talked to Governor Connally. We have not talked to Mrs. Connally. Mr. Dodd. Are we going to pursue that in the committee? DoclId: 322766630 Page 14
16 17 18 19 20 21 rs | "(22 23 24 25 21 UW urs. Burke. It is likely Governor Connally might be a witness in the hearings. We didn't feel it was necessary to present him to you in executive session. Mr. Dodd. We will be apprised of what he will be saying. | ~ Mr. Blakey. Absolutely. Mr.Dodd. There is no reason to call Mrs. Kennedy, I presume? Mr.Blakey. I hadn't thought about it. I have not talked to the former First Lady. Mr. Devine. I can anticipate a guestion from President Ford ,“ghat do you want to talk about?” Mrs. Burke. If you are going to make that phone call what we should give you before hand is a briefing memorandum where we outline for you the various areas. Frankly, I think the .committee probably has a duty to, in addition to going over how it was formed, and the pressures under which it worked, airing what came out of the release of the FBI document. That is, had‘:Congressman Ford served as an information conduit for the FBI from the Warren Commission. There are memoranda written by de Loach indicating that is the case. I am aware that the newspapers or, I think it is CBS, has talked to President Ford about that and he has an explanation for it. I do not think that interview has been aired. I believe it was NBC, where Carl Stern talked to him. DoclId: 322766630 Pape 15
14 15 16 17 18 20 21  ) 22 23 24 25 22 Y We will be able to give you a memorandum. Do I sense a consensus on the part of the committee that is the way we should proceed? Mr. Devine, It doesn't make any difference to me. _ However you want to do it. _ Chairman this a MaaStokes. It would appear fthat then}fis the way we should proceed. Mr. Blakey. “Phere is one other item I would bring up at this time before I suggest we go into the briefing and that is if the committee wants to discuss the memorandum that I circulated to you with the suggested date for the King hearings, the Kennedy hearings, and the King hearings again . ' . in the public meetings W I think fr. Edgar, you wanted to speak to that. Mr. Edgar. I have a couple of questions, or one specific one that I need to raise and that is, Floyd Fithian and I . ; “Case have been fairly active in the Kingewe and we have tough . . : swe elections and we may be counting f Wy votes or erne—hundred votes at hfe o'clock in the morning. I notice in the schedule the day after the election we are scheduled to be here Rammed at ni¥ne o'clock for a public session. I think that is inappropriate. Mr. McKinney. Let's call it impossible. Mr. Edgar. I would rather come on a Saturday or make one of them nife to tyejve or ne to ete to make up for the DoclId: 322766630 Page 16
10 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 "20 21  ) 22 23 24 25 23 loss of hours. The Wednesday after election doesn't seem to be a good day for any of us. Ff wr. lakey. Would Thursday after election? Mr. Edgar. I think I could probably make it by Thursday if I am not packing. I would urge not to use Wednesday. Mr. McKinney. The consensus is unanimous that you are right. Chaivman Me. Stokes. Is there anything further? Mr. Dodd. I would like to use a few minutes to discuss his. I have discussed this in the past and I have mentioned it to a few people on the floor over the last couple of days about the scheduling itself. We are looking at the week in August and then the full month of September. I know, Bob, you have. expressed the feeling that it would be almost impossible to conduct public hearings and be through by the 3lst of December. I would like to rdise for purposes of dis- cussion here,, whether or not we want to proceed with this intensive public session in September. Two, whether or not it is possible to. conduct more shifts on part or all of this until November, December and write up the report simultaneously,. if that is possible. Mr, Blakey. _ Mes~—Buske. Let me out_line the strategy involved in setting this up. We are obviously dealing with problems. If you push it in one place, it will push out in another DoclId: 322766630 Page 17
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 @ 22 23 24 25 24 direction. I think the first two things that have to be said is that the committee has to begin its public hearings before the end of September on both King and Kennedy because we will have to come up in September for additional money to go through December. @ while I am certainly not an expert in politics, having sat through the hearings and the floor debate on our money bill the last time, it is difficult for me to believe that the floor would give this committee more money unless it had started its hearings. | I think preferably we should finish our hearings as an integral presentation on both sides. It is just not possible to do that before September. In addition, the King hearings would have a special problem with the appearance of James Earl Ray. We can ‘anticipate that he will present new material of some kind and therefore we probably ought to get him out of the way in August and then finish up the King hearings in November or we will have the opportunity in September and October to run down anything he says is new. If we don't begin in a substantial way demonstrating our competency, our professionalism and our serious dedication prior to the votes in September, I doubt that the Congress would finance it. This means, in my judgment, we would have to begin in August and September. Then I think in September DoclId: 322766630 Page 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21  ) 22 23 24 25 25 we should finish Kennedy as a whole, so that people can watch 'it as a whole and not have it broken up. Y/ ur peda. May we go off the record, Mr. Chairman? Chairman am Stokes. Yes. [Discussion off the record. } Chairman Mas, Stokes. Back on the record. Mr. Blakey. Mr. Chairman, I have no further business to bring before the committee. Chairman ; . , Me Stokes. There being no further business before the committee, hays meeting is adjourned subject to the call of the Chair. [whereupon, atell:30:azm.,.the committee adjourned, to reconvene at the call of the Chair.] 2. DoclId: 322766630 Page 19
—: G) wrx. paga . Aye. . ‘ 2 _Ms.Berning.: Seven ayes, Mr. Chairman. oo? Chairman 3 Mee, Stokes. Seven members having voted in the affirma- @ 4 tive, the meeting is now in executive session and all members 5 of the public are requested to remove themselves from thexroom 6 Mr. Edgar... 7 Mr. Edgar. Mr. Chairman, before we move to the agenda, may 8 I inquire as to one of the agenda items, is the schedule’ for 9 the public hearings? 10 Mr. Blakey. Yes. 1 Mr. Chairman, there are several items for general 12 . discussion, two of which could require a vote. The main @ 13 issue before the Comma tee y or the main question before the 14 committee, however, is thdnature and character of the hearings 15 that will be held next week at night. I will not discuss thos 16 things on the record here, but at the conclusion of themeeting 17 we can go into a briefing off the record on them so I would hope 18 the items of business could be handled as expeditiously as pos 19 sible so we could get to the main issue which is next week's 20 hearings. 21 The first issue I would bring to your attention and 22 solicit your advice deals with the Ray family. e 23 AS you are aware, of course, the committee has referred 24 to the Department of Justice and the Parole Board the question 25° of John Ray's perjury before the committee. | Docld:32266680 Pde 20
10 12 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 @ 22 23 24 25 4 W the Department of Justice has informed the Parole Board they are considering presenting the matter to the frand sury and ask the Parole Board to suspend his parole for a period of at least a month. The parole Board has indicated..to us they would probably not grant him parole if the Department of Justice decides to charge him with perjury. There will be a-meeting on Tuesday at two between the staff and the Department of Justice officials to discuss that matter. I would. bring to your attention one other item in that connection. Evidence developed before the committee indicates that Jerry Ray probably committed a fraud on McMillan having to do with checks and other matters, Carol Pepper and Jerry Ray made available to mr Qucmillan. leading Mr. McMillan to include in writing his book that the family was a conduit for funds while James Earl Ray was in prison. It turns out those materials were fraudulent. Without going into the details, that transaction constituted Federal ‘wire fraud and is a prosecutable offense. The issue I would bring to the committee this morning is whether it might be advisable to refer that matter to the Department of Justice for possible prosecution. I solicit your advice on it. If we did settle, we would have to have a committee resolution turning over to the Docld: 322766630 Paye 21
10 12 14 15 16 18 19 21  ) 22 23 24 25 Department the basic testimony we have available to us indicating Jerry Ray's involvement in the effort to defraud McMillan. Chairman ; jie Stokes. Mr.Edgar. Mr. Edgar. Mr. Chairman, having sat through both hearings having to do with John Ray and Jerry Ray, unless I get more information, I would think that the John Ray perjury should be pursued and the gerry Ray thing ought to be just noted in our report and not riade an issue of unless we find more significant evidence against Jerry Ray. I think we just muddy the waters by going after each of these cases, or.this one case, in terms of wire fraud. I think our issue is trying to sort out the pieces of Martin Luther King's death and I think the pressure on John Ray may be of value in helping to break the case open, given some of the new leads we are pursuing. I think we still have to keep pressure on Jerry Ray but I don’t think that pressure is harassing him, which may be perceived as harassment in terms of a wire fraud issue. “That is just a personal feeling on my part. Chairman adie. Stokes. Are there other comments? Mr.Fauntroy: He stated my predisposition on that questio also. Mrs. Burke. Mr. Chairman, unfortunately I was not at the hearings so I don't have the background information on the DoclId: 322766630 Pape 22
20 21  ) 22 23 24 25 wire fraud. a ; H ur )Blakey. What happened is that McMillan, an author, came to the Ray family to find out more about James Earl Ray and the relationship between him and the family and during the course of those contacts, Carol pepper 5} James Earl's sister 7p and Jerry Ray, sold to McMillan photographs they had bought from:the Salvation Army and portions of her check books in which she had entered back-dated interest under two theories. One is the photographs were: of the family and that the back-dated checks, or check interest, were designed to sho money was coming out of prison and through Carol Pepper's account, and this played a part in McMillan's book.. He paid money for those items and he in fact was defrauded by the Ray family. Mrs. Pepper indicated before the committee that these entries were fraudulent. | They were, in effect, forgeries. Mrs. Burke. I would reserve on the issue of the wire fraud, but I do think, having had to read the long, involved statement in the Los ‘Angeles Times about the assassination developments a most of which were based on McMillan and his claim i I think that one way that strategically, if that informations when that is brought totthe -public light ggyem iomamg and made clear the Justice Department can do with it what they want, that the whole attitude and approach toward the committee and the hearings will be different. DoclId: 322766630 Pape 23
— 14 15 18 19 20 21 @ 22 23 24 25 7 f ue. Edgar. My suggestion was not to cover it up at all. My suggestion was it is something that we need to have up front in our report, up front in our discussions as we go to public debate and let the Justice Department take it if they wish from there, but I don't think that it serves a purpose to tie up our lawyers now in trying to “analyze and share with the Justice Department the information at this stage. of our investigation. I may be wrong. Mrs. Burke. I would agree with that. I think the timing is very bad and could very easily be done at the conclusion. vie Pauntroy. I would like to reiterate, however, the view that we must pursue the perjury charge on John Ray vigorously. MrijiEdgar. May I speak to that, Mr. Chairman? Chairman ; Mes Stokes. Mr. Edgar. Mr. Edgar. I think that is a really key thing if I am ‘reading John Ray right, and the testimony we have gotten from the Ray family. I don't think he wants to spend many more years in prison and I have a feeling he has not been cooperative with the committee and its investigation and I think shortly after we pursue this perjury we ought to get back to John Ray and have him back either before the committee or meet him in some context where he realizes he ought to be very factual and honest with us in terms of his involvement. DoclId: 322766630 Paye 24
17 18 19 20 21 ) 22 23 24 25 I think that is.a clear case, where we have three or four witnesses. Chaiymen Man Stokes. Let me ask counsel if any analysis has been made or any evaluation Beswiveen made with reference to the oo extent to which the p Scare testimony of the sister: to the effect they t did commit fraud and so forth A how it would materially alter the book itself. ur Slakey. I would have to pass on a real analysis of the book. The argument is made in it that with regard to the relationship of who Ray was and the relation with the family, that is not. supported, but I would have to pass on a careful analysis of the book. I think the point that would be made by the prosecution can ultimately be made by the final report and the prosecution that the Ray family is not a reliable source of information and authors who have relied on statements by Jerry Ray or Jame Earl Ray, or Carol Pepper, have seemingly relied on an un- reliable source. In fact, there':has been fraud committed against Mr.McMillan. Chairman je Stokes. Aside from the fact that this information has been developed in our hearings, has there been any other pub- lio’..acknowledgement of this? Mr. Blakey. No. Chairman ,Me Stokes. This will be new when revealed to the public Docld:322766630 Page 25
18 19 20 21  ) 22 23 24 25 Aue. Blakey. That is”correct. Mr. Fauntroy. And is it not a fact that we have found no basis, no other evidence that checks in fact passed? The bank records have no trace of those which are noted of rather ingenuously, to me + on the bank book which was shown to McMillan. .I still have not figured out for myself how she put those two $1,000 entries in ina fashion to make them look authentic and yet the bank records show no trace of it. Mr. Blakey. It was a matter that probably ought to be ‘taken up now if it is going to be taken up. The staff has no special interest in pressing it or not pressing it. I understand the::sense of the committee is that we reserve it for the final report. The statute of limitations is such that we have a year after the final report in which the Department can pass on the prosecution. There is not a time factor. Let me raise with the committee a second question. You have had passed to you copies of photographs. The source was from Time-Life. They are enlarged. The individual you see sitting on the curb there is the so-called "umbrella man," with a front view of him. It would be possible if you knew him, I suppose, to identify him. These pictures came into our possession in this form only a week or so ago and the. issue I present to you. for your resolution is, DoclId: 322766630 Page 26