TOP SECRET ~~ si?! take our time and consider thoughtfully and carefully how much 3 , 3 i zt : : . . . a 5 we will disclose. -If I have any feeling for the public senti- ws 8 5 _ ment of this country at all, I think I am right when I say that q 5 5 A if we should disclose that. the Government of the United States a - : P made a concerted effort to assassinate Castro or any other rule 6 we will completely destroy the Central Intelligence Agency of. 7 this country. There is no question in my mind that the public will deman 8 it be disbanded or cleaned out. 7 9 : . Secondly, I think that foreign governments around the world, 10 even those who are friendly to us, would demand that everyone 11 a a, that even was suspicious at all of being with the CIA be 12 ||: F disbanded or be removed from their country. : It is inconceivable to me we would even think of such a 2 14° — a , thing in time of peace, and I can't help hut believe that a. 15 Oe - | public admission would destroy ‘the intelligence system, and we -.16 a have got to weigh in our own minds whether it is something we || wish to hear here in the Committee room, take the necessary 18 | . corrective action and report that we have taken it, or whether n “19 . , g . -we are going to disclose. the things to the whole world. 5 20 Oo a — a Chairman Church. That is a question we must face, I € recognize that and I am not putting that question to us now, 2 22 . : - : : : wi ‘Senator Tower. I fear the external reaction more than the = 25 - , ; 5 internal reaciton. A lot of people in my State would say on the . z 24 . ~ « matter cf the attempt. on Castro, why didn't they get the son of . 25 , . TOP SECRET HW 54653 DBocld: 3242735495 Page 55
w bho TOP SECRET ~ So : 8 1 || .a bitch. 4g 2 ‘Chairman Church. We have now heard from Texas. That is a 5 the Texas view. Fs 4 (Laughter) 5 6 benefit. Shortly after this Committee was established, through ” a contact, a man and I cannot recall his name, contacted me 8 after he had learned that either ABC or one of the networks or either the New York Times was going to print a story on Senator Morgan. Let me add, Mr. Chairman, for the | 9 10 assassinations, his name might possibly be mentioned as a maker 11 of weapons, then became afraid himself, and I reluctantly agreed - . 12 to see him. ‘He came to see me. He brought plans, drawings of 5 y ; 13 the assassination weapons that he prepared. He brought orders 14 from the Defense Intelligence Agency as to how they were to be 15 delivered in person, paid for in cash. At first I was dubious’ 16 “of him and I thought he was just another nut. But the man was_ frightened, extremely frightened. | He came a second time with 18 a lawyer as well as the intermediary, and I told him I would hold 19° this information and at the proper time would turn it.over to B 20 _ the staff. F 21 || -.. He would by all means want to be subpoenaed, but if you : 22 will see me next week I will turn over all I have got to you. : 23 But it is almost unvelievable the kind of weapons he manufactured - 3 24 | His difference was he not only manufactured them but he had to 8 25 teach the people how to use them. And he told me that the type “TOP SECRET HW 54653 Docld:32423498 Page 56
iN Phone (Area,202) 544-6000 av) 10 11 12 13 14 XN WARD & PAUL 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 25 TOP SECRET ~~ 53 were Special Forces types, gung ho Marines, as he described them where killing was second nature to them and, of course, he is afraid now that having shown these individuals how to use these weapons that they may think very well that he is going to talk. He is not really interested in protection because he says there is no protection that anybody can afford him. But I will turn all this over to you next week. Chairman Church. Senator Hart. Senator Hart of Colorado. I was wondering, at least until the time of the Rockefeller Report, whether it would be feasible to pursue any proceedings along this line exclusively: with the group here, that is to say, Committee members ard the | staff members here? Chairman Church. Yes, that is my intention. Senator Hart of Colorado. All right. Chairman Church. That is my intention, to hold it as closely as possible, and, that is the way. we will proceed. Senator Tower. There may be some instances when they will request we have no staff. - Senator Schweiker. When Mr. Colby comes will he he under oath? Chairman Church. Yes. The procedure I would want to follow, once we begin what I would call the serious investiga- ‘tions, iust at the poin of doing that, that all witnesses who come to testify before the Committee be sworn just as witnesses| TOP SECRET HW 54653 DocId:32423498 Page 57
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.c. 20003 HW 54653 10 11 12 13 14 45 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 20 DoclId: 423498 Page 53 TOP SECRET wt, for whom depositions are taken must be sworn. The kind of briefings we have had up to now have really been very prelimi- nary, very informal, and not too helpful. | Serator Morgan. re 1 could add one other thought that I meant to add earlier with regard to the disclosure of this. As we have said earlier, it is one thing for a colonel so and so to write about Marchetti to write it and others, but it is another thing for an agency of Government to admit that it is true. So I think that is something we have to weigh. Chairman Church. I know, we do and, Rob, the way that the Rockefeller Commission treats it will have a bearing on the way "we may have to treat with it. I don't know what we are going to be up against if the. Commission makes its report in a way that discloses the fact and then this Committee is asked to provide the details. Senator Morgan. ‘If, it does that we won't have much choice Chairman Church. - Well, all right, one other thing that I | would like to mention just for your comment. A lot of refugees who have come into the country may have i been brought in by the CIA, selected out of Vietnam and brought in. I don't know.» | Senator Tower. I am certain. Chairman Church. I would assume. Senator, Tower. Particularly those engaged in Operation Phoenix. a ee TOP SICRET
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 © WARD & PAUL 410 First Street, S.E., Washingtan, D.C. 20003 HW 54653 10 11 12 130 14 15 1 18 19 20 21 22 235 —R4 RO Doctld: official policy, which is in my view the ultimate corruption of, ‘the intelligence process: -If that is the case, we need to know 42735495 Page 59 TOP SECRET ~~ 35 Chairman Church. And if they have been brought in, if the Operation Phoenix is what it has been described to me, we may have a bunch of political assassins in this country who have been doing that kind of work in Vietnam now brought in under the cloak, the protective cloak uf the CIA on our hands. It is a difference though between political assassination and conducting military operations in time of war. I think we have got to, in the course of our investigation - of covert activity, find out all that we can about the Phoenix operation, and I think we have. to find out how many people connected with it who are Vietnamese, who. may have a very different view of what a free government is all about, are now lodged with us in this country. That must come within the scope of our general inquiry into covert activity. The other thing I would like to say is that I am very much disturbed over the possibility that’ the adams apple article, Sam Adams article, which some of you may have read. Those of you who haven't should read it. | Senator Huddleston. Where is it? Chairman Church. Harper's Magazine. It may be true. If it is true, if it is true it means that the CIA participated | ina cover ‘up, counterfeiting intelligence estimates of enemy | strength in the field in order not to conflict with the . about it. oa
| TOP SECRET = 56 E 1 Senator Hart of Colorado. I raised that at my breakfast ¢ . J : 2 table, the Adams Artile, and officials sitting with me dismisse : 5 it as Adams always being kind of the mouthy kind. 5 4 Mr. Schwarz. We examined him for four days. He is more 5 complicated than his article suggests. The numbers question is! 6 awfully hard to make concrete. We have got to find if there is| 7 any more direct evidence of manipulation. than just playing with 8 | Statistics, which is really largely his article. 9 Senator Morgan. Along the same line, I think I have 10 mentioned this before, but I feel we need to develop some staff 11 system whereby each staff member will be continually brought 12 up to date or furnished articles, materials that may be sensitive 13 to some extent but yet could be permitted, that we could WARD & PAUL 14 . keep in our safes and read. You know it is a little difficult 15 to come in here and sit down and digest everything, but also I 16 am getting embarrassed to have to go buy Penthouse and Playboy. 17 I believe there are more articles in those two. 18 Senator Tower. You have got a. good excuse now. 19 : Senator Morgan. That is what I have been Saying. Really 20 I think maybe if we could have those articles -- 21 Chairman Church. Let's try and handle this right now. 22 First of all, press articles dealing with the Committee 93 || OF dealing with revelations or charges, relating to the work of ' 24 the agencies we are investigating should be coming to members. 410 First Street, S.£., Washington, D.C. 20003 25. The staff is supposed to be ‘collecting those everyday and TOP SECRET HW 54653 Docld:32473498 Page 60
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL ~ 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 HW 54653 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1e 19 20. el 22 23. 24 25 TOP SECRET ~ 7 circulating them to the offices of each member. Is that happening? Mr. Miller. That is happening. Chairman Church, I haven't seen any in my office, Senator Tower. I have gotten some. Chairman Church. Once in awhile I have seen some. Mr. Miller. I will check it. — Be Senator Tower. “Maybe the staff is short stoping you. You have too much to read. ° Chairman Church. Maybe so. We should include in that any significant magazine article that in the judgment of the staff warrants the attention of the Committee members. cover that it go directly to the Senator, because I think probably what is happening, some of our staff people are getting that, they are delaying it a little bit. We ought to. indicate on the envelope, however it is delivered, it goes directly to the Senator, not through the normal process. Senator Morgan. If you let our staff member hand deliver it.to us. ’ By the way, I get a little feeling from my staff member that they are being left out. I don't know whether this is tru - Senator Huddleston. You might make sure designating or not. I had understood the entire staff was to. work aS a unit. That is the reason I throw that’ out. I got that. from a TOP SfeRey DoclId: 324273498 Page 61
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 11 12 13 . 14 WARD & PAUL | 15 16 “1 18 19. 20 el 25 24 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 25 HW 54653 Docld: 32423498 Page. 62 them, if they would prepare say a two-page outline summary of 22. TOP SECRET ~ = = —<—s—‘“‘ B couple of staff members I was talking to. Anyway, one other thing, Frank. This may be an imposition to the staff but I assume somebody on the staff is going to read all of these articles, these magazine articles. In readin what. is in them it would be helpful. I read all night and I still don't keep up. Mr. Miller. on the question of articles and sO On, we will add that. I am quite sure the newspaper things have been going everyday but we now have a press man, Spencer Davis, who has been assigned the task of reading everything and putting together a digest of everything and flagging that as of critica importance, | Senator Tower. Don't give us too much. I think just the reall good stuff, what is pertinent, because we could get inundated with this. | Mr. Miller. .On the question of sensitive material, I would think the most sensible way within security would be to. have Walter Ricks, in your case carry the material to you and a i he be responsible for it. Our problem is we have to know for . our own protection, among other things, exactly where these pieces of paper are at every moment. We just can't take a chance. But why don't I be sure that everything gets to you through Walter and he be responsible for it and accountable for ‘it? =} ‘e) “J es Gud o> rae Fa
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10. 11 12 WARD & PAUL 14 “15 16 1? 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 « 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 25 HW 54653  Docld: 13. 2423498 Page 63 TOP SECRET Senator Tower. It is a good idea to have two members of your staff cleared, get high clearances on them. I have got ‘clearances on three of mine. Nobody else in my office handles classified documents except those people. Senator Morgan. I had two thoughts on the sensitive material. I noticed in the first place sensitive appears only on the first page. Tt should appear on every page. | Mr. Schwarz. It was only the first page because of the assassination issue being mentioned on the first page and the other stuff we though in fact was not sensitive. Senator Morgan. Can I assume unless the word sensitive appears on any given page that that is not sensitive? | | Mr. Miller. ‘Yes sir. Senator Schweiker. that does the word "sensitive" mean? Senator Tower. That is a low order of classification. Mr. Miller, It means it is classified, Senator Schweiker. tt means classified? Senator Tower. It is the lowest order of. classification. Mr. Miller. We have two for our own Committee purpceses,. We have two classifications. The first reason is practically everything we handle is classified. ‘The: two orders of classi- fication are those which most or all of staff can see because ‘they have top secret clearance... The second order are those highly conpartmented materials which have to be stored in a. separate secure area and only those who have a need to know wil TOP SECRET
\ Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD & PAUL WW 54653 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 10 11 12 13 14 us 16 a 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DBDocld: 324273498 Page 64 this country, some of them became the Watergate burglars. 60 Top Seunet have access to it, in addition to the Senators. Senator Schweiker. What do you call that? Mr. Miller. We call it compar tmented material. Sensitive compartmented material. | Senator Schweiker. The two are what? Mr. Miller. Sensitive and Compartmented. Senator Hart of Colorado. One point on your first obser- vation. The Cuban counterparts of the Vietnamese coming into I think that is essentially what you are saying? Chairman Church. Yes, I can see potential problems, Senator Tower. We will get Ted Shackney in here to talk to us about that. He is the Station Chief in Saigon. Chairman Church. én hat ‘takes care of it. Thank you very. much. | | (Whereupon, at 12:35 p.m., the Comnittee was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.)