JACK REVILL Y Index of Exhibits September 26, 1978 JFK 4 Identification F-566 HSCA Staff Interview of Joe R. Cody, . July 11, 1978 F-567— Report, dated December 19, 1963, submitted by 0. A. Jones, Dallas Captain of Police, to J. E. Curry, Chief of Police, regarding the investigation of the Operational Security involving the transfer of Lee Harvey Oswald on November 24, 1963 F-568 _ Diagram of the basement floor plan of the Dallas Police Headquarters, Commission @ - Exhibit 2179 (Also in blow-up) F-569 . HSCA Staff Interview of Don F. Flusche, June 7, 1978 F-570 HSCA Staff Interview of Jack Revill, 7 August 18, 1978 ; Supplemental Exhibits HSCA Staff Interview of W. May 30, 1978 © . Gannaway, HSCA Staff Interview of James Gilmore. May 26, 1978 HSCA Staff Interview of Rio S. Pierce, May 29, 1978 : HSCA Staff Interview of James Herbert Sawyer, @ May 24, 1978 So HSCA Staff Interview of Don R. Archer, _ August 24, 1978 NW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 40
2 SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS Name Joe R. Cody C~(—~*éiatt@ vy 11, 1978 Time 3:30 p Address 1113 Cedar Ridge © ., - Place Dallas Police Headquarte ' DeSoto, Texas Interview: Detective Cody was interviewed in his office (Room 212) at Police Headquarters. ‘He was. questioned relative to. his friendship with Jack Ruby and he stated that he first met Ruby in 1951 while a patrolman working on South Ervay Street in downtown Dallas. Ruby was the owner of the Silver Spur and there were numerous altercations on the premises which called for Police action of some type, and during this time r Cody became. friendly with Ruby. _ Cody left the: Police Depart-_ ment and entered the U.S. Army, serving in Korea and is South Texas and Mexico, in Army Intelligence. He returned to the D.P.D. in 1954 and was assigned to the Detective Division, Nar— cotics Squad. Ruby was very cooperative with the squad, giving information that resulted in arrests. He continued the. friend- ship with Ruby through the years and used to go ice-skating with him. He used to play hockey too and Ruby was a hocky fan. | Ruby mentioned that he was having trouble with the | Union (AGVA), but he didn't elaborate. Detective Cody stated . that during this period of time he was sure that Ruby did not WIA During most of the early Date transcribed 7-21-78 have. any organized criz Interviewer Signature @ Typed Signature Al. Maxwell WW 55923 DBDooid: 32267370 Page 41 Rrzre- Ww.
Interview with Joe Cody Page 2. years that he knew Jack, he had had some hard times. The Club (Silver Slipper) was doing badly and Ruby slept in the “back and cooked there too. | on the day of the assassination (11-22-63) Cody stated ; that he was off work, but when he heard’ about it Gn the radio he called in and was directed to the T.S.B.D., and arrived there about ‘ten or fifteen minutes later, and was present down- stairs when the rifle was found. He later went to Police Head- “quarters and was there when LHO was brought in for killing Police Officer Tippett. The officers were bringing: him down — the hall (third floor) when he asked LHO his name. When LHO gave him his name and where he worked, he grabbed him and. took him into Captain Fritz's office and told Hine that he was from the TSBD and the one wanted in connection. with President. Kennedy's. death. ~ | Questioned relative to Ruby's presence on the third floor, Cody stated that he didn't see Ruby on the third floor at any tinie, that he (Cody) was there, but that evening: at the first show-up, which was in reality a press conference, he. was. one of the Police Officers who brought LHO down to the basement. ‘When he looked around, Jack Ruby was standing on a4 table. Cody asked him what he was doing there and Ruby replied that he was covering the event for the Jewish Press. All during the press conference, LHO was denying that he shot any- @ one. After 11:00 p.m. that night, Detective Cody stated that _ WW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 42
Interview with oe Cody Page 3. ’ he was off duty and had flown his plane to Amarillo, Texas for a scuba-diving contest that Sunday (11-24-78) when he heard on the radio that Jack Ruby had shot LHO. A short time after Ruby was incarcerated at the Dallas County Jail, Cody: stated that he went to visit “Jack and asked him, “Why did you do it, Jack?" He said Ruby replied, "I did it for you guys- He was a punk (LHO) and wouldn't have served vany time in jail for it." Questioned further relative to information received. from Ruby, Detective Cody did elaborate on several cases where he was called at Headquarters and given information by Ruby, @ and: he acted on this information, which resulted in arrests. Ruby was. not registered with the D.P.D. as an informant as far as Detective Cody knew. ‘He just ‘passed. information (of a criminal nature) to members of the DPD that he knew. HWW 55923 Declid: 32267370 Page 43
OAJ inw . Chisf or Police 7 . Sir Pursuant to your instructions of November 29, 1963, the unit assigned has completed an investigation of the Operational Security involving the transfer of Lee Harvey Cswald on November 2h, 1963. - A summary of the investigation, along with an indexed oe complete investigative report, plus exhibits is Lor warded under separate cover, fe Respectfully submitted, Cdéptain of Police MW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 44
5 ~ December 16, 1963 © Chiet"« of Police | | Becks | Investigation. of the Operational Security” - . — _ Involving the Transfer of Lee Harvey Oswald “on November 2h, 1963. oo Tha investigati ve ‘team which you ‘appointed on November 29, 1963, ° : _.to make this investigation wishes to submit the: following report: — Security was set. up in the basenent parking area of the. City Hall . _ at approximately 9 &.me on Sunday, November Oh, 1963 (See attachments) 7 _ _The basezient wes searched and guards placed at all - entrances. , “ALL unauthorized personnel were removed from the area. Security | personnel and news nedia were then allowed to enter the basement. An armored truck was ordered and arrived at the Commerce Street ~ —  yramp at approximately 11:00 a.m. It was backed onto the. ramp. ‘eo “". ‘@he truck did not have sufficient clearance to be taken to the bottom of the ramp. The driver believed the truck might stall due to the weight if it was placed on the incline. It was then decided to leava tha truck at the top of the Commerce Street ramp with the rear wheels on the incline and the front wheels on the: sidewalls of the Commerce Street side of the City Hall, ‘The Jail Office corridor outside the Jail Office and the ramp - _ area South of the Southeast comer of the Jail Office was. cleared of everyone except security officers. Plans were changed and Lieutenant R, S. Pierce drove a . squad car out of the. basement area and out the Main Street ramp. He _ was accompanied by Sergeants J. A. Putnam and B. J, Maxey. They ._. made a left turn on Main Street, a left turn on Harwood Street — and a left turn on Commerce Street, They were intending to lead the armored truck to the County.dJail. The armored. truck was to be a decoy and the prisoner wes to be transferred in a.plain care. Detective Charles Brown drove a plain car on the Commerce Street ramp toward: the armored truck. Detective C. N. Dhority then drove. another plain car on the. ramp behind Detective’ Charles Brown's cares ling, NW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 45
Page 2 Detective C, N,. Dhority was in the process of backing. the car he _ was. driving into position adjacent to the Jail Office entrance, “-: : when the prisoner was brought out of the Jail Office by Detectives a Je R, Leavells and L, C, Graves,. preceded by Captain J. We. Fritz -. and Lieutenant R. E, Swain. They were followed by Detective L. De oo Montgomery, The prisoner had taken a few steps toward the car. — dack Ruby apparently was standing about 10 or 12 feet from the | Southeast corner of the Jail Office, at the bottom of the Main | Street Ramp near the pipe railing. Ruby lunged forward froma — position between acting Detective W, J. Harrison and Robert S, Huffaker, Jr., a newsman for KRID-TV. Ruby approached. Lee Harvey Oswald with a revolver extended and fired one shot into Oswald below the rib cage on the left side. ‘The shot: was fired at. approximately 12:20 asm. Ruby weg “Somedi~ — ately arrested, Lee Harvey Oswald expired at Parkland Hospital - This group interrogated 123 persons during the course of this - 24 Z 3 investigation. This included. 20 patrolmen, 21 reserves 7 30 detectives, 19 supervisors, 13 reporters, 11 cameramen and 9 civilians. Most of the officers were assigned to provide. _ security end the reporters and cameramen were in the basement - at the time’ of the transfer. Only one of the.civilians inter- rogated was. in the basement at the time and this was Jack Rubys | | ‘We have obtained the names of 10 newsmen that. were in the basge=.- ment that we have not been able to interview. We were able to determine there were approximately 10. members of the news media in the basement whose identity we have not been able to deter- mine, It is believed these are newspaper Correspondents répre~ senting publications from other areas of the country and. even other countries, Time and money made the running down of these people inadvisable at this time, particularly since it is not bew lieved that eny of them could throw additional light on this matter... Numerous sida investigations which grew out of this investigation Were also mide, A separate report covering these incidents will be submitted, Ws are convinced that our investigation has established to a . reasonabla certainty that Jack Lgon Ruby entered tha basement from the Hain Strest ramp and that no collusion existed between NW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 46
'- Page a 2 2 Aim and ; any > police « officer or member of the press; that. his - = » "=<" entrance into the basement at this particular time was the ~~ _ result of a series of unfortunate coincidences which caused a momentary breakdown in the security measures adopted. We are also convinced thet Ruby was in the basement fora’. maximum of 2 minutes with a strong possibility that it was . only 5 to 10 seconds prior to the shooting - of Lee Harvey | ' Oswald. The following evidence led us ta the above conclusion: i. Exhibit BB . oS A. Lieutenants Jack Revill and Pi G, McCaghren inter= _ Wiewed Mr. Doyal Lane of 6549 Lake Circle, A1-0560 _ at the Western Union Telegraph Company located at - Main and Pearl Expressway in Dallas, Texas. ; 1. Mr. Lene is a supervisor for the Wester Union, Telegraph Company.and was on duty at this Ieccation on November 24, 1963. At 12:16 a.m. _Jack Ruby sent a $25.00 Money Order to an employee, | Karen Bennett, Ft. Worth, ‘Texas and ' was given a receipt which | was: stamped with the. time (11:16 a.n.) 2. Mr. Lene was shown several photographs and he -. : . readily picked the photograph of Jack Ruby from these and stated that he knew Jack Ruby inasmuch as Ruby had sent several telegrams in the paste or. Exhibit DD - A. Shows a distance of 3396" from the Westernmost , Goorway at the Western Union Office to the ‘center ~ of the ramp leading into the basement of the City Rall f fron Hain Street. B. Shows a distance of 99? from the center of the - sidewald down the Hain Street Ramp to a line running East from the Southeast corner of the | Jail Cffice. eee, NW 55923 Docld: 322672370 Page 47 -
Page 4 . Co Shows a distance of es from the Rasternnost point ' of lina. mentioned in B above to point where Lee Oswald was shote. : D. Total : minimum distance Ruby would have to Lravel to ; arrive at spot of shooting from doorway « of Western Union eanals L516". i III. = hibit BB A, Lieutenants Jack. Revill and P, G. Mecaghren « on s November 29, 1963, checked the time required to , walk from inside the Western Union Office to the spot of the Shooting in the hasement of the Cty | Hall... le “It takes 1 minute and 13 : seconds to walk: this distance to the entrance of the Main Street TAD. = ® oe 2. It requires another 22: seconds to walk down ¢ the. oe a ramp from Main Street to the location where Oswald | was shot. 3. Total time required was 1 inimute and 39 seconds. Iv. Exhibit cc . A. Lieutenants C. C, Wallace and P, G, veCaghren used a stop watch checking time required to walk .from entrance of Western Union to location of Lee Oswald at time of shooting. Time required was 1 minute. and 16 seconds. a B. . It requires 10 seconds or more to go from the desk in the Western Union Office to the sidewalk outside ~ the office.. C. Total tine required was 1 minute and twenty-six '  secomds,s Nw 35923 Docld: 32267370 Page 45
e . - Page 5 7 Ve | “Tina of Shooting oo A.. . Patrolman Willie | B. “Slack a Attachment 91) called | -- dispatcher’ for doctor and ambulance. Le - Le Dispatcher ‘called O'Neal Funeral Home on "Hot Line” for: ambulance. 7 an OS: (a) “Funeral home Logged call at Ls 21 Beep ee _Novenher 24, 1963. _(b) ° Funeral. Home advis ed dispatcher to radio Ambulance 605 who was on the aire — 2. Dispatcher notified Amoulance 605, at 1: 22 AeMe November 2h, 1963. (Exhibit BB) (Exhibit BE) Be Statenents by Ruby — Attachment 90. - 1. To Lieutenants Jack Revill and F, I. Cornwall _. that. he sent. a. telegram at 11:16 and did not oo ' Speak to anyone in the basement prior to the “shooting « SO, a os 2. To Detective D.. R, Archer (Attachnent 2). “At this time P..T. Dean asked the suspect, 'Euby, tdack, how did you get in the basement ?* ‘Ruby replied, 'You guys'll never believe this, a but a Little girl who works for me had called and asked that I send her some money to Ft. Worth. =~ ., 2 had left my apartment, gone to Western Union’ ‘at Main and the Expressway, and wired her $25.00. I left there and noticed the crowd around the | | City Hall. I walked up that way, thinking L might get a chance to see Oswald. As I reached the ramp that leads to the basenent, L noticed Sam Pierce pull up from the ramp in a black car. The officer standing there turned to either answer a question or say something to Sam.-I. -don't know. As he did this, I walked down the ramp', . Mr. Forrest Sorrells of the U. S. Secret: Service wes believed to be present at the time this statement was made to Sergeant Dean. NW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 49
3. To Detective B.S. Clardy (Attachment 17).° 7" ~ _ ‘When asked why he shot Lee Oswald, Ruby. , replied, "Somebody had to do it, atl. a Se 'couldn't?, - He said it was a spur of the a Ce moment thing and it was a‘million to one chance . 7 os that he got down there at the actual tine. Oswald - WS brought downe™. he To: Serzeant Pp. T. Dean “(ttachment on). - . “After Mr, Sorrells interrogated the sub ject. L questioned Ruby as to how he had entered the ~ basement and the length of time he had been. ‘there. Ruby then stated to me in the presence © of Mr. Sorrells that he had entered-the base= ment through the ramp entering on Main Street. He further stated. that he would estimate his- . total time as about 3 minutes before the a : , .  Getectives brought Oswald. into his view, then” . ® . SO he: Annediately shot him (Oswald). ho. ‘ be. To Detective T. D.. Mck tillon(Attachment 7H). "We talked to him when we got to the fifth floor. On the fifth floor Ruby was asked how he. got to the basement, He replied that he ceme from the Western Union Office where he - wired a girl in Ft, Worth some money. -He said he saw Rio Pierce drive out of the basement. He walked past the policeman standing. there. He said a policeman hollered at him, but he ducked his head and kept going. He. said that "he knew he could always act like a reporter, © ‘He also said, "Ya'll wont believe this, but L didn't have this planned. JI couldn't have timed it so perfect.! He said just. as he got there, Oswald was coming out." 6, To Patrolman W. J. Harrison (Attachment 45) "SYou all know ma, I'm Jack Rubyt . One officer asked him why he “aid it, and he answered 'I hope I killed the S.0. B. ri . lee, ra ~ NW 55923 Docid: 32267270 Page 50
- VI. Car driven wrong way up Main, Street Ranip « A. Lieutenant R. S, Pierce, Sergeant Putnam and Sergeant. Maxey were in 1 CALs (Attachments G3. 8 86 oe and (69 d. - 1 An statements state shooting occurred between _ time cér left Main Street Ramp and arrival at Commerce Street Ramp. oe Be. Tieutenants C. C. Wallace and P. G. McCaghreh’ ° : interviewed Mr. Fritz Kuler of KRID-TV.- (Attach= od (lh ment 62) Mr. Kuler stated the video tape was re continuous. The time recorded on the vided machine? pe of elapsed time fron passage of Lieutenant Piercets putt car in front of the TV camera until. the sound of the ai shot. was 358 seconds. This was checked twice. & _ Vil. Officer R. E, Vaughn ~ - Attachnent 102. A Assigned ¢ to Main Street Ramp of City Hall. B. C. Instrveted by Sergeant P..t, ‘Dean to giard the North. Rama. Officer Vaughn questioned several people. and admitted a city mecnanic and 1. reporters Stepped out into Main Street to’ stop traffic and allow Lieutenant. » Pierce toa. make Left turn onto Main surect. Saw formar Officer N. J - Daniels. at Main Street Ramp. - Saw former ‘shine-boy from locker room, Wilbert Ray Jones. at. Main Street Rann. . Polygraph test showed truthful answers on all pertinent a questions. on VIII, Statement of N. J. Daniels ~ Attachmant 23, e. ok Saw man enter Main Street Ramp, NW 55923 Docid:32267370 Page 51
B. Gave description of man. C. Said man entered between himself and Officer’ ae Vaughn and the officer looked at him but did not: DL Polygraph test showed untruthfulness on Alb. | ‘pertinent. questions that were answered, 7 . xX, Statement of Wilbert. Ray Jones ~ Attachment 57 a ‘Had gone to parking lot at Commerce and Harwood ab tine of shot, = Pe -X, Statement ‘of Reserve Officer W. J. Newman — - Attachment 796 7 _ Reserve Officer Newnan saw someone running down the. 7 © | - | _ Main Street Ramp but could not definitely say the’ a . time. He believes it was about 1 minute before the _shooting,. » ae XI. Statement of Reserve Officer Sergeant Kenneth Croy ¢ Attachmmt 21,. . This officer gives description of man he believes to have been Jéck Ruby, that was at foot of Main Street Ramp a while before the shooting. (Investigating. Officers have determined that Robert Huffaker, KRLD-~TV newsman was in this area at the time, and his clothes were identical to the clothing described by this — officer.) an - XII. Staterents of Detectives B. L. Beaty and J. D, Hutchinson ~ Attachments 4 and 52. These two detectives were stationed at the double doors leading into the City Hall fron the basement. parking area for more than 10 minutes before the shooting. They both knew Jack Ruby and neither saw him in the basement prior to the shooting. They say Ruby ‘@ NW 55928 Docld: 32267370 Page 52
ec XIV. | : - Deceaber 8, 1963. Statements of Darwin Payne, David - thetfact not: ‘conf immed bye the* ‘evidences  XVIL WW 55923 Doold: 322672370 . AlL members of the press who were “ snterviewed stated - oe - aia not enter tha basement. area from the double doors from the Jail Office of the Police and Courts Building. XIII. “Statenents of Sergeant Putnam, Reserve Captain Arnett and Reserve Lieutenant MeCoy. ~ Attachments 86, 3 and 126 | These. officers statenents are regarding the search of the basement parking area and ramps and. screening of _ personnel in. areas - VSRBISSE Stele : in Dallas Times Herald, Sunday, Hughes and. Sergeant P, Te Dean, - Attachments 652A, 504 and 27+ .-: ‘TherarticleaMeged that«a. Dallas. Poliée: Officers Saw? ieack;Ruby+ as-he- came: down-the.. Main’ “Street: Ramp: Sergeant: ean denied: the = ‘allegation: and- the- statements - ofsthetresorters:and:..th eix-notes: show: ap: esumpt ion ‘of? Statenent of Officer W, a Harrison — Attachments WS and OLB. — : _ —— Jack Ruoy came from this offic er's: left side when he plunged forwa od to shoot Oswald. . Polygraph test by Detective P. Le Bentley s shows. that Officer Harrison did not see Ruby prior to the exit of . | Cswald from the Jail Office and did not recognize: Ruby. “until instant shot was fired, . Security check of newsmen vio entered the basement. their credentials were checked upon entering the bese- _ ment, or that. they knew the of fficers personally thab . + | admitted them to the basement. Page 53
_ hat no State Fair Pass was issued to ‘Rabye "Statement oe Eva Grant that she believed her brother had a. Press Pass. See Exhibit 39-A. Stat ement by Mr,. Thad Ricks (Attachment 90). “Negative report from all officers and news nedi.a regarding seeing Ruby with a Press: Pass. An introductory card was found in Ruby's auto- ‘mobdile glove compartment from former Judge Glen ee Byrd introducing the bearer as Jack Ruby and ae expressing appreciation for any help given bearer, (a Property Room): XIII ° c onclus fon: whit htey, WW 55923 Doold: 32267376 ; An. Be ‘This investigative. team believes that Jack Ruby entered the Main Street ramp as the car driven by. Lieutenant Rio Pierce was leaving the basement, . Patrolman R, E, Vaughn was the only officer , . guarding the Main Street ranp at this. time, and he had stepped into Main Street to halt traffic in order that Lieutenant Pierce could make a left tur onto Main Street. We: also feel it should be noted that no officer interviewed knew the time that Oswald wes to be “brought to the basement. The car that was to be used for the transfer was still in process of — backing into position when Cswald was led from the Jail Office (Attachments 37 and 77) The still pictures (Attachments 6-A and 53-4) show many of the detectives with their eyes on Oswaleé at the moment of the shooting, and not watching the viewers who were across the North Ranp and on the East side of the ramp Page 54
Pagel The bright lights illumimting area for the TV- — cameras were centered on the area adjacent to — the Jail Office, making it difficult for the > officers who were facing the lights and cameras to observe any movements originating from the 7 Northeast side of the ramp. ee Ne Oo ~ ODS These officers had beea ‘instructed to form two. ‘Lines . | from: the Jail Office door to the vehicle to be used - . for the transfer and to close in behind the pris- oner. (See Attachments Ly 16, 18, is 52, 66, (8t and 04) ‘EB. Exhibits QheaA, 43-A, CG & HH are sound fame taken, . -. from video tape of the shooting. a - Fo Exhibit 84. is a. silent ‘film of the shooting. | Jack Revill, FL I. Cornwall, P. G, MeCaghren and Detective eo a ‘The other members of this Unit, Lieutenants C, C. Wallace, - KR. M. Hart concur with the statements in this neporte “Respec trully, Je. Y Sayer Inspector of Police We. We. R. Westbrook _ Captain of Police Captain of Police. _ JES tnw NW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 55
LAPS 2 Saar ites BASEMENT DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, DALLAS, TEXAS MAIN ST. " aakaeter oon woawers Fear iy stove JAle mast ao Station —— os SA chy tent ; wut ats ; One pants Pacume asts foment sate’ compaaTweetts. ateOnto 19UCe 10 Lacing 1008 Uweeaseeears woes . : waoerens Oatteent cane ’ COMMERCE: ST. Commission Exxuinit No. 2179 = — — — = —_ a Presa. mae A ; aS Sceeet 3 ogee ection <— nat a Sete a ra Peg SEA, ie FEE a ah = a = FESR PE. or ieee . a UES Re ae Sree: oa RSE Fe bv pasar 5 = 3 ie ee: ra aes ae Se Sea se es Aa = Serta eel ee : - aa ae ise : - = : Se viar Is i = & Ban r Seer . hapse thee Sig es soto Hah feo ee i Sot set ee, Z = Sa
INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW SCHEDULE INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW SCHEDULE wei cying Information:  .. : oe . Oo UO098ss Name _| Date G- 7- 7 . | Address ; ' Place Zar: eruysy Dyess (Onto "City/State J_> en Cus SAz SIIP-A | y/ fate > ; SoS: B70 ¢¢O5- ty ; Date of Birth _ . _ Mors : “Social Security Spouse. - Children Physical Description: Co — CO Height S19" a . +» Color Eyes RLY Hair TIRED - Weight lLFo So, ae Special Characteristics’ °-" - ‘Ethnic Group. Cay _ Oona Histo ory: a. Present Em ployment: tn soeerionac~Senu ier) . Address - As = ai DIUM ny; Telephone 6490 efor ee b. Criminal Record | — 7 ‘Ll... Arrests 2. Convictions Additional Personal Information: | a. Relative(s): Mame . . ee Addres So b. Area frequented: W@™ac- Remarks: os ; . 7
KENNEDY SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS Name Don F. Flusche. oo Date 6 va 78 ame 1400. Address 2321 Globe Avenue Place on the job Dallas, Texas | 8a 670 4405 (work). 214 327 5777 : Interview: Interviewed Sgt. Flusche on the job today as he is as signed to the Inspectional Services Section of the Dallas Police Department, at which time he. advised he was standing alone on the Main Street sidewalk diagonally across the street from the DPD | | basement ramp. It was some time before noon and. he observed Officer Roy Vaughn, whom ne Knew, at the ramp's entrance on 11/24/6 The sergeant had his cruiser parked to the curb with - @ the’ right front door’ opened on to the sidewalk area. He was listening to the Police Department radio | ‘(he was on duty) - “Althoug! “assigned to the: "Northeast District" at. the time ‘he was also _ | working as the Watch Commander and had ariven to Main Street to see if he could see Lee Harvey. Cswald as he was ‘moved ta the © Sher-- ifE'S. Office. . . -He stood there long enougit to see (be. ) Rio Sam | Pierce drive up the "ine ramp. and Vaughn step towards the street. He was still there when the obvious commotion told — : him something was amiss. in the basement. The street was void of pedestrians in the downtown . .. Interviewer Signature A Z 4 Gee .- <a Y Typed Signature. Jack Moriart Date transcribed June 28, 197 MW 55923 Docld:329°967370 Page 58 re By: Ross es
NW 55923 Docld:32267370 Page 59 Flusche Interview . a . oo -. ° Page two in the downtown section on this Sunday morning and he knows beyond any doubt in his mind, that Jack Ruby, whom he had known many years aia not walk down Main Street anywhere near that ramp. - Asked why he hasn't mentioned. this before, he ad- vised he did as soon as. he found out what had happened. He im- mediately notified his superior, Lt. Knox. He didn't hear any more about it until yesterday talking with Vaughn who asked him to mention it to me. | | | Captain Jack. Revill was present during this interview. Ir accompanied the. Captain and Vaughn to the basement _ of this building where the LHO/Ruby scene is located and we» examined. the. scene carefully. Close inspection reveals an alley separating the Police Headquarters building and the next building and the ad~ joining building which. ends the block. This last or third building also houses (and did in 1963) the Western Union office used by - Ruby that Sunday morning. It is quite plausible that Ruby - or anyone else ~ could walk: ‘from: the corner building | (Western . Union) past the second building, turn left into the alley alongside the Police Headquarters and enter the Dallas Police Department by way of a side door, which leads to a stairway directly to the hase- . Ment axea where the shooting took place. While this possibility doesn’t alter any facts, it's an alternate. route. which could have been utilized by Ruby and would have made 2 mach less conspicuous entry possible. -
a me, Fleusche Interview ' Page three The timing and the distance would be within feet and seconds of the "ramp" version. . The Sergeant Main Street om pare . Vaughn Ca Police Headquarters. fee ———— | We stern ramp oo Union “old” building "new" building .- NW 55923 Docld:332967370 Page 60
eee _ 5 ZO — _ KENNEDY @ oS SELECT ‘COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS ‘Name Jack Revill Date August 18, 19798fime 1:30 p.m address 5204 Elk Ridge Drive Place Dallas Police Headquarters . | Dallas, Texas . ) mo vd Interview: - Captain Jack Revill was interviewed -this date in # his office at Police Headquarters.- Captain Revill is in charge of the of the Internal Affairs Division of the Dallas Police Department. . In 1963 he was a lieutenant and was assigned to the Criminal Intelligence Section of the Special Service Bureau under Captain Gannaway. On November -24, 1963 he was off duty when Ruby shot Oswald but he was later assigned as part of the @ team that investigated the killing of Oswald and how Ruby had _ gained entrance into the basement. He questioned Roy Vaughn . who was assigned to the ramp entrance and Blackie Harrison. Both men took polygraph tests and passed. He .comments. on Napolian Daniels, who also took a polygraph but failed it. He believed Roy -Vaughn, who stated he didn't see Ruby enter the basement. The possibility of Ruby having used the alley entrance to the building was raised. Captain Revill stated that he had. covered | the ground with Jack Moriarty, and it is possible that Ruby | could have entered through the alleyway door. He further stated - that the door should. have been locked but he wasn't aware if it was or not. But. the timing of the walk from the Western Interviewer Signature @ _ Typed Signature Albert Maxwell _ Date transcribed 8-29-78 By: bro Form #42, NW 55923 Docld:32267370 Page 61
Jack Revill Interview @ Page 2. Union Office to the ramp or alley entrance would be about the same. He also mentioned that a friend of Vaughn's, a a Sergeant Flusche, was on Main Street observing the area ‘a and that he knew Jack Ruby and did not see Ruby enter the basement via the ramp. . . “Captain Revill.was questioned about JURE and at first he could not recall the name. However, when Sylvia Odio's name was mentioned, he recalled that at the time (1963) he was getting information relative to Cuban activities in Dal- las from Nestor Castellanos, who was employed at the Hilton Hotel. The names of the JURE members were read to Captain © Revill and he didn't recall having heard of them, but referred me to Captain ‘Tomlinson, the present head of the Dallas Po- lice Department Intelligence unit. He said that the files from 1963 may have been purged. Questioned about Reverend Roy Rushing, Captain Revill recalled his name immediately but wasn't too familiar with what was said in 1963 to the Warren Commission about Reverend Rushing. Revill was given a xeroxed copy of his statement, read it and stated that to the best of his recollection, the in- formation is the same. He then gave me a business card which was given to him a couple of months ago by Reverend Rushing. Captain Revill believes that Reverend Rushing is a con man. NW 55923 Docid:32267370 Page 62
nae | KENNEDY ; @ oo INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW SCHEDULE Identifying. Information: mame LU) (2 _ Cay hui | ; Address 7520 Corres. Naw) Dr. 3 City/State Aneta: a PP I3/ “Date of pirey sS~ / Pe Social Security Physical Description: | Height — . Weight. ‘Ethnic Group_ . Spouse Alte mt. _ 30, | Date 5-30-79 - G = Am Place OFFICE -:: Telephone 3 ¥S— 2570 fo Mor sS Children ~3 Color Eyes ss Hair. Special Characteristics. tne eae meee Se ce a @-.onat History: * : on oe “a. “Present motores ed Address _ // ‘Telephone. be Criminal Record | . i. Arrests 2. Convictions -— Additional Personal Information: ° a. Relative(s): Name a ‘Address. ; _ a —_— b. Area frequented: . -@. Remarks: Investigator» ° way Of ¢ > WW 55923 Docld:32267370- Baté3 Form £4-B
. KENNEDY’ SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS _ Time 9:30 a a Name @& Address _7520 Cross Draw Drive > Place Office ~ 411 WwW. 13 -St.- , a Austin,. Texas. Texas 78731 (512/345-2501 —— Interview: Mr. “Gannaway was interviewed ‘by Staff. Investigator vy Joseph J. Basteri in his o office at 411 West 13th Street, Austin, <— Texas. | | . a | i | Mr. Gannaway is. presently employed by the State of Texas as the Planning Commissioner for their Criminal Justice 7 system. | He has. been employed in this capacity since his aie ‘ment from the ballas Police. Department on /galy! Ll, 1972. He en- ry tered the department on “dune 10, 1937 as a police. officer: and rose to the rank of Captain.” 7 | | a Gannaway very willingly discussed the conditions that existed in Dallas during the 1940' Sy 1950's and 1960's. ‘He stated that in: the: early 40. Ss" a (group from Chicago attempted to . penetrate the criminal s scene in Dallas but they failed. of this. group, he could only recall the names. of Paul Labriolla, Mark a Lipsky, Marty Ochs and Weinberg. This. group, according to. Mr. a Gannaway, were big” time hoods with good connections. In short oo time the District Attorney! s office and the police department began to arrest many of then. Sheriff Decker had rounded up a group and drove them to Interviewer Signature - e edge of to sith instructions for 7 @ Typed Signature Jos Date transcribed br 6-19-78 ; MW 55923 Docld:322672370 Page 64 — oo - By: , Dae BA
' Interview with W. P. Gannaway Page 2. them not. to return. These criminals soon got the message and they all fled Dallas. About the time that this group at- . tempted to move into Dallas, Herbert Nolan was killed by a pbeceseeian ie thee fowshetd defe planted bomb and Benny Binion fled Dallas. Mr. Gannaway re- marked that rumors around town were. that Binion had put out the contract and then fled. -Mr. Gannaway stated that this was | "not so, the reason Binion left Dallas was that this mob moved in and Binion did. not wish to oppose them. Although Ruby was: in Dallas during this period, he was in no way attached to this. group. In fact, Gannaway stated that they would not even speak to him. “After this group was chased out of Dallas, Paul Rolang Jones: entered and amateur ly attempted to bribe ‘Sheriff Guthrie ; SPU RWAY , ina vain effort to take over Dallas. Sawyer said that Jones - was in no way connected with this former group and definitely did “not put Jones in the same league. He classified Paul Roland’. Narcotics Bureau, and the Intelligence, which supervised the - Jones and his associates as small time opportunists that had no mob connections. ; Gannaway stated that he could speak very knowledgeably of events during this period as he was, as the Captain, in charge of the Special Service Bureau which included the Vice Squad, ~ subversive and radical groups. Gannaway. stated that although © Dallas was a clean city he did not wish to imply that Dallas . was. completely free of any criminal activity. Gannaway explained NW 55923 Docld: 322672370 Page 65
Interview with W. P. Gannaway, Page 3. that Dallas did have its share of gambling and bookmaking action, and as such there had to be some sort of organiza-— tion. This. organization was in no way - similar to the family . type organization that exists in the east. In bookmaking, ex- plained Gannaway, there. would have to be some sort of national. syndicate influence to set the morning line and the spread on any sports action. This was controlled by their own home— grown criminals. ‘Gannaway attributed the control of this gan bling operation to Joe Civello. | Gannaway emphasized that there was. no question that Civello was. the Don in Dallas as. these - gamblers all. bowed to ‘nim. Gannaway pointed out a man named oe Joe. Tanni as. heading Civello' ‘Ss: gambling operation. Carlos 7 e Marcello. haa on occasion visited with Joe Civello in. Dallas. Gannaway recalls that after the Appalacian Meeting, which Joe. Civello attended, upon his. return to Dallas, Chief Hanson called Civello into his office: to explain his presence at. that -meéting. Civello ‘denied all knowledge of this affair. Chief Hanson dis~ missed the matter with a stern warning to. Civello that the city of Dallas did not appreciate this kind of element. _ /Gannaway places. Joe Campisi in the ‘Civello camp. He termed Campisi as. a. small-time operator with only enough’ courage to do small-time bookmaking. Gannaway terms Campisi as a per- son. who is: afraid. to be. caught sO consequently takes: very little risks in his gambling operation: Gannaway recollects. a man | ~@ named Bosco had been arrested in a $500,000 booknaking « opera— NW 55923 Doold: 32267370 Page 66
Interview with We iP. Gannaway Page 4. ; tion. This was a lay-off parlor for all the bookies in the Dallas area. ‘During the surveillance of these premises, it. was. noted that Joe Tanni would pay frequent visits and that Joe campisi would visit it ‘on occasions. Gannaway pointed out that Joe Campisi had purchased the Egyptian Lounge from John Brazil Grissaffi. He: describes | Grissaffi as. having the reputation of being a very tough indi- vidual and a "hit man.” ' He puts Grissaffi as a running mate of Lois Green, who ran a loose-knit’ gang of criminals whose main objectives were burglaries of ‘wholesale arug companies in order: to steal drugs. Gannaway states that this period was during r ) the | War : “years where all shipping lanes were closed to the drug , traffic. “Consequently to fill up this void, Green and. his mem— bers would either hijack « or burglarize these drug companies in order to replenish the much-needed drugs. Eventually Dallas be- came to be known as the hub of the drug traffic. “The Green gang was not as refined or organized as. the Mafia gang. Green would supply needed. money to. a certain group in order that they’ could: engage in. this sort of activity: In return, Lois Green would receive a considerable share of their proceeds - - Within the Green gang, he would have his. own selected men to carry out any necessary enforcement. ‘Lois Green was ‘later killed as he came: out of a nightclub with Jack Todd. Gannaway stated that al- A “@ though Todd and Green were close friends, he always suspected: Todd of setting up Green. Gannaway mentioned that Jack Todd NW 35923 Docld: 32267370 Page 67 ——_
— - ‘Interview with W. P.. Gannaway Page 5. ( @ was a known safe cracker and he once locked him up for carry- ing explosives as he was boarding a plane for New York. He believes the type of explosives was nitro and the purpose was > _ either to blow up. a safe in New York or to wire the explosives: to. an. auto. ‘Gannaway received this information through am in- formant. To his knowledge, Gannaway does not believe Ruby and ‘As the Commander of the Special Service Sureau, Gann~ ~ away had first-hand information on all subversive and radical 7 individuals. in the area.. “Intelligence reports would daily cross . r his. desk concerning. these persons and he would always assign a men to ‘check out these leads. Gannaway recalls that Agent 4 Hosty of the FBI would make daily visits to his office and Gann— _- By g away s would supply him with all. this information. Gannaway ex- wt plained that Hosty's assignment with the FBI was to supervise subversive activities. Gannaway was. very proud of how his unit. — had penetrated most of these groups. In fact, when he heard of. the President's visit he had dispatched men to Denton, Denis, Waco and other areas to. keep a closer watch of xadicals in these towns. Gannaway informed me that he was never told 1 about, Lee. Harvey Oswald and was not aware of “his. existence prior to the assassination. Gannaway stressed that more than certain he would have had. one Of his men cover Lee Harvey Oswald had he. known of his. presence in Dallas. NW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 69
ant ‘ a en oe Ww In the area of corruption within the pallas Police ‘Interview with W. P. Gannaway | wi Page 6. NY, foepartment ; and if Jack Ruby exerted any inflé | members of the Dallas: Police Department, Ganraway was very | strong regarding his: thoughts” on this subject} Gannaway stated that I could not be speaking to- a Mam more informed on this bubject as he. was due to the fact that he not fonly headed the ‘Bice Squad: but also he was responsible, in 1948, for giving irth to the Internal Affairs Division, whose bnly function was Bi to supervise the conduct of police officers. ‘Commander of as the Vice Squad, he issued orders. to the superv}sors. that he bxpected strict control over these night clubsfand demanded pat these places be clean of all hoodlums - ct one character as seen in these places he would let it ‘slidefby, but if “there wpre two or more then his men were instructed ate lock them ue. ghitable to run this type of “business. In fact, Gannaway re- jacked that he had received information that Ryby would enter lis club armed. with a gun. At that time @ therejwas a a technical Prdinance. i in Dallas ‘to prohibit carrying a “gunfinto a night club. en Gannaway: learned of this, he. sent two meng to arrest ‘Ruby . | For the violation of this ordinance. Gannawe d Pointed out that he had a tight control over the supervisors and men. in the: annavay stated that - the department did not have serious NW 55923 Doocld: 32267270 Page 69
‘Interview with W. P. Gannaway . ge Page 7. | problems concerning corruption. The biggest problems with | their members were "booze and broads." Gannaway can't recall of any man being dismissed from the department because of cor- — ruption and the Internal Affairs Division did investigate this area thoroughly. The interview ended with Mr. Gannaway pledging his full support. to the Comittee, ‘and. he would welcome any further ‘interviews if needed. “NW 55923 Docid:32267370 Page 70
DONNA RY. @ INVESTIGATION: INTERVIEW SCHEDULE 09 Identifying Information: a OS | ee ee Name . il MORE _ Date G Address Yo/ 3 Reba bin Crete Clut Dh, orace BEB £09 4D. City/State Stunt rth, SOR = Telephone Date of Birth /2/r1 /z¢ mors _ Social Security 273 /€ $/ 4] Spouse G2aa4> Physical Description: —< @ sonal History: - Children None. Height oo . Color Eyes: | Hair Weight _ . Special Characteristics " Ethnic Group . 1? a. Present Employment: ‘Address Pmt. Reirme. PB Telephone b.. Criminal Record - l. Arrests_ 2. Convictions additional. Personal Information: NW 33923 Doold: 32267370 ‘Page Fi a. Relative (s) : - Name annem ereeeneeeme erate cnn ORE . > saacens b.. Area frequented: c. Remarks: Investigator ate Form. $4-3B /
ce . . ‘KENNEDY SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS Name. James Gilmore __ .  . Date 5-26-78 Time1:30 5. Address 4018 Ridglea Country Club Driwlace Office - Benbrook Police Department ‘Fort Worth, Texas Interview: Staff Investigator Joseph J. Basteri interviewed Mr. Gilmore, who is now Chief of Police for the Benbrook Police Depart-_ _ ment since his retirement from the Dallas Police Department. | Ben- brook is: a town - of approximately 15, 000 residents and is located » just outside Fort Worth. Chief Gilmore said. that he knew Ruby quite well because from the years 1954 to 1960 he was with the Vice Squad and as Y _ such his duties were to pay frequent visits to dance halls and | | night clubs. Gilmore entered the Vice Squad when he was promoted to Lieutenant. Gilmore was familar with all of Ruby' Ss clubs and never knew them to be a hangout for hoods. Gilmore. credited Ruby with running a fairly legitimate night spot, abiding by all the police department regulations .— 1 any violations were ob~ served, Ruby would be issued a summons like: anyone else Commi t- 7 ting a violation. These places were “visited at least once a - | night to make certain that there were no violations. ee - One. point that Chief Gilmore wanted to emphasize was: that Ruby was not a constant visitor to police headquarters as the papers had reported. Chief Gilm e stated Ruby only Interviewer Signature . J. Basteri © Typed Signature José&p} Date transcribed br 6-19-78 MW 55923 Doold: 32267370 Page 72 ; . : . By: Farm 27.
Interview of James Gilmore Page 2. “visited. headquarters in order to take care of business. matters and. for no other reasons... . | . 7 Chief Gilmore did state that Ruby had once told him. | that he was run out of Chicago Decause he had crossed someone up and had twenty-four hours. to leave town. / Ruby did not ela- borate on too many details but Gilmore surmised that he may have been in some kind of bar business and he had done some— thing wrong. | Gilmore did not believe that Ruby was connected with any mob characters in the Dallas area. According to Gil- more, the only gang members were Dallas-bred and no one from the outside ever penetrated this group. Gilmore agrees that - @ the most notorious group was - the Lois Green gang and Ruby had positively no connection with them. — | | On November 24, 1963 Gilmore stated he was not on duty but home watching the television and. saw Ruby shoot Os- wald. Gilmore remarked that earlier he had seen Ruby in the. station. house and when asked what he was. doing there, Ruby re- plied that he was going to’ see if the homicide detectives wanted any sandwiches. Gilmore declared that he had nothing to do with the transfer of Oswald but heard that Captain Pritz wanted the move: to be made in the middle of the night but was. ‘opposed | by Mayor Cabell who wanted the transfer to take place in the. morning hours to please the vress corps. Also, Captain Fritz had once told Gilmore that if he did not have so many interrup- @ tions he. may have. been more successful in the interrogation of MW 55923 Dooeld: 32267370 Page 73 -
Interview of James. Gilmore Page 3. LHO. When asked about the rumors that Ruby was afraid of him, Gilmore replied that most of the. night club owners. did not care how strict he was in his inspection of their pre- mises. Chief Gilmore explained that when he paid these es- . “tablishments a visit, it was not a social call but to care- | fully axamine their premises for any violation. At times, these owners objected, as they did not want him to pay too much attention to their operation. He is-also certain that several arrests were. made in Ruby's clubs and clearly remembers as a police officer he had given Ruby a ticket for a traffic in- ©. fraction. Gilmore remarked that even Joe Campisi complained that he was too strict. | - - The interview ended with Chief Gilmore promising to contact me if he can recall. any incident that may be useful. in this investigation. MW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 74
KENNEDY po. — a | 0094i2 @ . . INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW SCHEDULE. . Identifying Information: / ee | Name Rio So GER Ce Date 5- 29-7 & 2PM. Address. A 7 = 3 Place RES) peice _ City/State EN MS. TEXAS 2S IG | Telephone 2/4/. Ise F300 ‘Date of Birth J-ab-ad a Social: Security JFK Act 6 (3) - Children =i Physical Description: Height EF Fe . . Color Eyes. ° Hair Weight___/60 oo", Special Characteristics - Ethnic Group oY c » 2 . -_. a @. ona History: . a. Present Employment : De aa Address EWN\S TEx AS ACRICULTURE Telephone. b. Criminal Record 1. Arrests 2. Convictions Additional Personal Information: a. .Relative(s): Name Address be Area frequented: @ Remarks: — Investigator NW 55923 Doctd: 32267370 Pade ti re 7 Form £4-B
KENNEDY @ 7 ss SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS Name Ric S. erce | Date May 29, 1973 Time 9 DM. - Address Route $3 on _ Place residence . | Ennis, Texas 75119. «214 875 8300 4 Interview: Staff Investigator Joseph J. Basteri interviewed Rio | Ss. Pierce who entered the Dallas Police Department in 1946 and re- tired January g, 1974. He is now employed part-time with the De- partment of Agriculture. | | . Mr. Pierce was a member of the Uniform Patrol Division and on Sunday, November 24, 1963 was working from 7AM to 3PM. He held the rank of Lieutenant and on that day supervised 8 to 10 men . ®@ -and: 2 sergeants detailed to the basement and adjoin ring rooms. — Mr. Pierce then stated chat he was then assigned the responsibility to escort the armored truck out of the basement. , Pierce explained that there. were two ramps in and out of the basement. The Main ramo was the exit. The armored truck, which was going to. be used as. a decoy, backed into Commerce. Street, but because of its height could not - back completely into ‘the basement, causing the ramp to be, blocked. Pierce stated that he then decided to exit the Main Street ramp so that: he ‘could get out and then back his car into the Commerce Street ramp and. place it in position in front of the armored truck. He then proceeded to exit the Main Street ramp and in doing so he Interviewer Signature Typed Signature T MW 5592353 Docld: 32267370 Page 76
Pierce Interview. Page two direct him out into the traffi members of. the force did notice there or just walking by and waiting for his car to pass them so that they could continue to walk. Pierce stated he knew Ruby and Napoleon Daniels, but did not see them. In fact, Pierce remarked that he was not. aware of who was standing at the entrance because his concentration was to maneuver his vehicle in front. of the armored truck. Pierce does recall Vaughn. being in the gutter and he was. either motioning his hands or blowing @ Ris: whistle to stop the. eraffic in order for him to get out of the ramp. After leaving the ramp, he drove to Harwood Street and made a left to Commerce Street where he made another left turn. Pierce then said that as. he arrived at Commerce Street ramp ,. he does. not recall whether he parked the vehicle at the curb or backe it into the Commerce Street ramp, but at about this time, they | were aware that something had hapeened inside the basement. “They immediately ran into the basement. and leamedwhat had happened. After LHO had been taken to Parkland Hospital, Pierce decided _ also to go there as a precaution for security reasons. He was not ordered to go there, but took the action as a supervisor. He. does not recall entering the hospital. e a 3 Pierce admits Knowing Ruby from the late forties. or early fifties as the Silver Spur was on his post. He described MW 55923 Docld: 32267270 Page 77
‘Pierce interview © Page three r Ruby as wanting to know people’ of influence, even if it was. only a casual meeting. Pierce said that he would never be afraid to go into any one of Ruby's places without a nightstick ‘Or gun as Ruby ran a place where one could not get hurt. Pierce did say that he would not trust Ruby and always. had the feeling . that he had something. to do with mob people, but could not prove 4 it. Pierce said he had the feeling that. Ruby did something wrong to some Chicago bad guys and had to flee to Dallas. He denied that Ruby had told him this, merely stating he just had that feeling. Pierce believes that Dallas had no organized crime that had eastern and northern influence. Pierce did state that Dallas did have a criminal element, but he was never ina position to deter— mine how organized they were. He stated that he was always as— signed to the Uniform Patrol Division which made it very difficult €or him to make his own observations concerning the organization of these groups. Pierce did say that from his own knowledge, he did not believe Ruby was linked with these criminal elements. NW 35923 Doold: 32267370 Page 75
KENNEDY GUS4ie @ , ; INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW SCHEDULE Identifying Information: Nene _JAues HERBERT Sai YER Date 5-24-78. X14 Place JANS” CokFEE SHOP “4 “RQ SERVINGS BcvD : Telephone ‘Date of Birth 19 glib Mors Oo: Oe “Social Security | Spouse ce a - a DO . Children 7 | oe Physical Description: Lo ‘Height .. Color Eyes . Hair | - Weight So ae : /, Special Characteristics - se Ethnic Group _ . - =z 2 @ 621 3 History: fat ‘a. Present employment: -TAN'S COLREE SHOP | 3254 EAvine Beud  Daccas, TEX As Telephone Quy G35- oie [- - Address b. Criminal Record lL. Arrests 2. Convictions Additional Personal Information: a. ' Relative(s):_ Name: Address ; | b. ‘Area frequented: e° Remarks: WW 55923 Docld:32267370 ELae C7 — a y. Form. 24-8
KENNEDY © | SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS “Name James Herbert Sawyer Date 5 24 78 Time 9:30AM Address RE lL, Box 1924 - ' Place 3254 Irving Boulevard. 4 _ Frisco, Texas  .—. . . Dallas, Texas Interview: Mr. Sawyer was interviewed ‘by Staff Investigator Joseph J. Basteri at his restaurant, Jan's Coffee Shon, located. at 3254 Irving Boulevard, Dallas, Texas. He has. owned and. operated this restaurant Since his retirement from the Dallas Police Depart- ment in 1967. Sawyer recalls that. on November 22, 1963, he was. assigned to be in charge of a detail of men on the upper portion of the Presidential Motorcade~ A few minutes after ‘the Pr resident * @ had passed him, he heard over . the radio chat shots were fired from’ the Texas School Book Depository. Sawyer, who held the rank of | Inspector, immediately rushed to this puilding and had it secured. He then organized a group of law-enforcement officers from the | Dallas Police Department, FBI, Secret Service and the Sheriff's "Office instructing them to find witnesses and possible suspects. These witnesses were brought to the Sheri E's office where affi- ‘davits were taken: Sawyer had also sent a team to search the ratio road yards as. there were reports that shots. may have come from that. direction and also it was good investigative procedure to t- cover all surrounding areas. He recalls his men finding the three Date transcribed - 16-79 NW 55923 Docld:32267370 Page 80
Sawyer Interview : . Bage two @ ‘-hobos in a box car. Sawyer did not personally interrogat e these men, but. said that. they did Look. like hobos. Sawyer did remark that a few years ago’ a writer had called him challenging several details of a photo he saw of the police officer escorting the three hobos._ The writer was puzzled as to the type of shoes, gun and a hearing device the police officer had. Sawyer’s answer to the writer was that the hearing device was in fact cotton for an (. ear infection the police officer ‘had. This fact was documented by Staff Investigator: Harold Rose. The only requirement the DPD makes as to shoes is that they must be black and this officer was” wearing black shoes. Lastly, DPD requires only that officers must. be armed with a 38..calibre or more gun. This. officer was armed. @ . with a 45 automatic which - is not an uncommon weapon for Dallas” | police officers. This police officer was later identified as Marvin Wise. Although Sawyer was picked to head the unit investi- gating the operational: security involving the transfer of Lee Harvey Oswald, he had very Little to do with it as he was hospi- talized a week after it was formed. Sawyer did state that he was kept well apprised of the progress of. the investigation and did assist Captain: Baker who prepared the final report on the conclusion of the investigation. Sawyer had received periodic information. from his men and after reading all reports submitt ed concerning ‘the investigation, he was. positive that the shooting of Lee Harvey @ Oswald by Jack Ruby was not planned because of the following reasons: NW 35923 Docld: 32267370 Page #1
Sawyer Interview . - Page three Ruby was. told by Karen "Little Lynn” Bennett to mail her the Western Union money order by Il AM on- November 24th. — Ruby was attracted by the crowd he saw milling out-— side the Main Street ramp. 'The armored car got stuck in the Commerce Street ramp forcing Lt. Pierce's auto to exit out Main Street ramp against traffic, causing Police Officer Roy Vaughn to leave his post momentarily enabling Ruby to enter the basement through the unguarded ramp. Ruby had entered the basement at almost the precise moment. that Oswald was brought down. According to Squad and as Sawyer, there was no way that Ruby could have timed thi's so perfectly as no one knew the exact. time Oswald would be. brought down. Sawyer stated that to his knowledge no one had objected to this unit being formed and it was terminated only after the investiga- tion had been fully completed. | Asa Lieutenant, Sawyer was in charge of the Vice such > came to kriow Ruby quite. well. He had heard | rumors that Ruby was. connected with mob Figures while in Chicago, but nothing has. ever. coe to his attention to prove this rumor Sawyer had also heard that Ruby had to leave Chicage because of a dispute he had with the ‘Chicago mob. Sawyer further stated that HW 35923 Doold: 32267370 he was.not aware that any organized. criminal element exerted any strong influence in the city of Dallas. The only group, to his Page 82
Sawyer Interview | - oe a . page four ® | knowledge, that could be loosely classified as organized crime was” the. Lois Green outfit. Dallas, continued Sawyer, was rela-_ ‘tively | a. clean town with the minimum of crime or corruption. é Sawyer admits that in the late thirties and in the early forties Dallas had more than its share of slot machines, bookie parlors, gambling establishments. and a certain part of the city was desig- nated. as the "red light district." ‘With the advent of World War-Two, Dallas was deemed off limits by the. armed services until the city fathers could clean up the city. Carl Hanson was appointed Chief of Police. and he formed a Special Service Bureau to clean up the vice, @ harcotics and gambling that was flourishing in the city. George coe Lumpkin was the captain in charge of this unit. Sawyer was &: ‘lieutenant ‘in heading the vice squad under Lumpkin. During this. clean- -up campaign, which took’ several years to fully clean up | Dallas, Sawyer stated that in no way was. Ruby's name ever Linked with this criminal element. Sawyer attributed the control of gambling, in the forties, in the control of Benny Binion, Harry “Urban and Lloyd Sinclair. Lois Green and. his. group were known to concentrate mostly on safe jobs, narcotics and prostitution. They would frequently meet in the office of Harry Hoxsey, and Sawyer always suspected. that these meetings were to discuss narcotics and fencing stolen property. | . "Sawyer had. informed me that he had set up the In- e telligence Unit for the Dallas Police Department and also. insti- tuted a filing system to properly record all pertinent facts. HW 35923  Doold: 32267370 Page 83
Sawyer Interview a | 7: page five One of the functions of this office was to arrange a2 system where police officers would not list their informants by name, but numbers would be assigned to the informant. It was against a police officer’ Ss principle to reveal the name of his. inf formant as such. Sawyer stated that it would be difficult to say if Ruby had been an informant as there would be no official record of it. Sawyer said he had heard that Ruby had passed on information to var— ' Lous police officers, but the information received was of little importance. Sawyer remarked that Ruby had come to Dallas in the late forties and during this period » the clean- ~up of Dallas. was almost complete. Ruby" Ss name never came up at any time With » regard to Ruby's having ever been connected or associated with. these crim— -inal figures. Sawyer always considered Ruby as a small cime night ~elub operator who would have loved to have persons think he was more important than. he was. Ruby's places, as well as other night. spots, were well. supervised by the vice-squad, and it never came to his . attention that Ruby had made bribe payments to any Dallas police officer. MW 55523 Docld:32967370 Page 84
_ SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS Time 1700 @ . NAME Address 2035 San Francisco | ; : : od . — Dallas, Texas 75228 | Phone: 214- 321- 5922 (d-non-pub. ae ; 748- 9711, xo71L. Interview: os 7 was positioned several feet behind. Lee. Harvey Oswald, having been assigned to the ‘Auto Theft Unit as a detective at the time} LHO was escorted off the- elevator at the basement level and walked | past Archer, ‘who was standing to LHO' ‘Ss right guarding an inner doorway. He watched LHO proceed into the strong array of © lights and saw a Man emerge from the line of “detectives on LHO's left, heard LHO say? "Oh, no!" —-- and ‘the shot was fired as LHO looked directly at the assailant who he (Archer) thought must have . r : been a plainclothes policeman. ("We all wore hats in those days.") | He and McMillon and clardy were among the first to grab the man and the weagon. on the floor, he said: "Tm Jack Ruby," and Archer didn' t recognize the name at the ‘time. Hernever:didckiow ys ‘him:personally, but had known - ‘a Man by that name ran one. of the local. clubs. 7 As he held Ruby's hands behind him, 7 Tom “(MeMillon) cuffed his wrists and Clardy . joined the escort back to the elevator. Archer : “lingered long. enough to take a close Look at LHO and left with the impression. he was dead or dying. . ., Interviewer re (Signature) _ Be A. Maxwell J. Moriart @ a (Typed) | Date Transcribed © -8/29/78/am . NW 55923 Docld: 32267370 ’ Page §5
WW 655923 Docld:32267370 Page 86 Lt. Don R. Archer Interview...page 2 Placed in the cell upstairs, he made. remarks to the effect he’ had done what they (the P.D.). could not have done. Stripped to his undershorts, he then began azhitany:of:sert= a Serving:statements such as: sudden passion caused him to shoot him -- he had done it on the spur of the moment. Arghersthoushts - TE ‘Sound 6a ase though: “hee “Had beenrcoachéed® ‘bane attorney. cRubyrasked., d...forand.1 received. cigarettes! which: he: consumed chain’ fashion. There was no animosity towards the three detectives in the cell with him most of the time. At no time was he alone in the cell. From time to time one or two detectives stepped _ from the cell to answer the ‘phone or some such temporary errand. cell area and Archer walked to the far side of the interior of — the cell to speak to them out of earshot, but still keeping LHO under close observation. Informed of the time and doctor (LHO had succumbed) , Sorrels s suggested he (Archer) advise Ruby. ee =e = St mec Sea hiting Ce a ices cress eg eaa a a The laborious breathing “improved. and he was. obviously relaxed for’ the firstitime. Offered another cigarette, a | pay et 4 he declined, saying: "Tt don't smoke," -and he didn't, eh that YY 1Z. time on (as Zor as Archer coukd, ge termine) . More in the sense of competition than malice, Ruby told him: "tT was going to shoot him three times, but you guys were too. . quick for me.”
4 Lt. Don R. Archer Interview...page 3 “9 wearchen"d0esn"trecabtvaskin 2Ruby=justzhow.he.gotyimethe nraranenecgee eee eae ‘comet from: thes CommiercesStrects side. | ASked specifically about this, he advised he had not been in a positlin to see anyone on either ramp -- he was much too far * back in the inser hallway. It was the manner in which he came through the crowd*of newsmen. "Just didn't seem Like he came from my left -— unless ne made a big turn." ' He drew a diagram depicting + ah? the ramp section of the. basement and showing how Ruby appeared - -- * ]: projected the line indicating "the big turn" if Ruby had not come from the right part. sy "AS HOV LUPLHSET Ae Sed" et Wasa ttrawane gots Levator =ore doors RES Tg FEO @ on. far:siderof-this. hasement=wHe,-=Tikemostzof.his.t ellow:workers; * Revert hadtoccas ion eattset hiss par oF the bulidiligs shim Archers=expressed:disappointmen t*wher he examined "his cranstibears “Statement cau He: dechine@ttots ign ina SHVeNTaSe theechanges” * Hag EHS™SEECEUTS EE Ho Lequitexconveyingzthesthoughtt | . Advised ‘pe corrections would be made, he returned the second time to find tite minor adjustments made still did not correct. the different impression the statement seemed to make. “Considering ‘the fact that a stenographer plus @ recorder had been utilized, ne ‘didn’ 't think inaccuracies were justified under any circumstances. 4 | Called co the Chief's office following his second refusal, he A was. advised to return again inasmuch as the proper corrections had, been made. NW 55923 Doold:32267370 Page 87
Lt. Don R. Archer Interview. --page 4 om Thes, jlastetrips reveal eduthertransePipeiawe SELIILe ‘TLeftssomething tor be aes ira THe insistedtonmtinitialin theses tems ==bukswae NW 55923 Docld: 32267370 Page 6
: ym . z, i \ 3 ad ~~ Soe = . V2 \ . u oe corse : =F RGENT 49-20-63 437 Pi CST MH DIRECTOR, Ake 24 1016 RONSSc, DALLAS bh-1539 6P - an 7 | T7RUBY, AKA/ LEE HARVEY OSWALD, VIC, CR. 00 DALLAS { i SDL “ly a ., UTEL FIVE T TWENTY FIVE PM, DEC EIGHTEEN. | Mes. a ea els. @ xsporzo Ji. VpanseLs REINTERVIEWED DEC EIGHTEEN AND Te XOS NTIA LLY THE SAME INFO AS WHEN PREVIOUSLY Ts | SURNISHED SUBSTA INTERVIEWED. DANIELS RECALLED HE WAS STANDING NEAR THE CURB. FACING THE CITY HALL BUILDING WHEN THE MAN, PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED, WALKED BETWEEN HIM AND THE BUIL DING AND THEN DOWN THE MAIN STREET RAMP. DANIELS ALSO ADVISED THAT THE DALLAS PD HAS —_ \ INTERVIEWE ED. HIM SINCE BEING INTERVIEWED BY BUAGENTS, AND HE VOLUNTARILY SUB WA ITTED TO POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION BY PD EX- ” {7777 AMINER. RESULTS OF EXAMINATION NOT Euan 1 TO. HIM. am _  Doifwe.: ae i OFFICER ROY ryoenevaucn, ‘INTERVIEWS mew DETATE™ DEC a ee ne [Ro a - . s. ko SaseNvaTroNS SHORTLY PRIOR TQ NINETEEN CONCERNING ACTIONS VEHICLE BEAR LING. MAXEY, PUpSAty AND PIS RCE LE PT MAL iN ST. ny | aS RA UP TO TIME oF sKootiNe IN. BASEMENT. VAUGHN STATED - - 982 | ~~ - : : ne A ) DEL | 24 , GAM ys S i a . 22 SEC24 1969 Xu f a Nae Ate f - vm ee eE “HT ay5a5 “Poold: 32267370 Page eo: Vy oO
SAGE 2 © DL 4b-1639 | | 1E WALKED TO MAIN ST. CURB ON THE EAST SIDE OF RAMP EXIT, WALKED IN A DIAGONAL DIRECTION FROM HIS POSITION IN CENTER YF RAMP WHICH WAS ABOUT ONE YARD INSIDE BUILDING LINE. STATES 4E CAREF ULLY. WATCHED EXIT DURING THIS TIME AND AFTER WAV- [NG OM POLICE VEHICLE IMMEDIATELY RETURNED TO POSITION IN SENTER OF RAMP.’ STATED WHEN CAR- DROVE OUT RAMP. HE WAS CONCERNED WWLY WITH EASTBOUN iD TRAFFIC ON MAIN ST. AND AT NO TIME. LOOK- I" TO THE E AST AS HE WAS NOT CONCERNED WITH WESTBOUND TRAFFIC. Tg HE DID NOT WALK INTO STREET AND 1s seta THAT No ONE | ENTERED RAMP ‘DURING TIME HE ASSISTED THE VE ICLE LEAVING — BaD OR AFTER HIS RETURN To MIDDLE OF RAMP. ST ATES HE WOULD - PROBABLY NOT RECOGNIZE RUBY IF HE SAW HIM, ADVISING NINETEEN SIXTYONE WAS. LAST TIME HE SAW RUBY. | DEC TWENTY DALLAS POLICE DEPT FURNISHED RESULTS OF > OLYGRAPH EXAMINATION, GIVEN VAUGHN NOV TWENTY fEIGHT AND DANIELS: DEC ELEVEN LAST BY POLYGRAPH EXAMINER P. L. BENTLEY (NBL, - DETECTIVE, DALLAS PD, ALONG WITH EVALUATION OF ANSWERS. THESE RESULTS ARE SET FORTH IN MEMOS TOMR. J. E CURRY, SHIEF OF POLICE, DALLAS, FROM (BENTLEY AND STATES THAT THE HW 55923 Docid: 32267370 Page 930
AGE 3 DL Hb 1659 | (EMOS CONTAIN THE PERTINENT QUESTIONS ASKED DURING THE SX- \MINATIONS. | “THE EMO RE VAUGHN CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING DATA --- "§ POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION WAS GIVEN ROY E. VAUGHN /wtt TWENTY-_ SIGHT/ AT THE REQUEST oF DEPUTY CHIEF N. T. FISHER. THIS CXAMINATION WAS GIVEN ON NOV TWENTYEIGHT LAST. BELOW IS \ LIST OF PERTINENT QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED DURING. THIS “ MINATION, 0 Oo | e ONE. DID YOU SEE JACK RUBY NEAR THE MAIN ST. ENTRANCE JF THE CITY HALL BETWEEN NINE THIRTY aM AND ELEVEN THIRTY ait LAST SUNDAY MORNING. ANSWER - No. | TWO. DID YOU ALLOW JACK RUBY TO ENTE R THE BASEMENT OF [HE CITY HALL LAST SUNDAY MORNING. ANSWER - Mo. THREE. DID You TALK WITH JACK RUBY LAST SUNDAY MORNING. \NSWER - NO. oe OS ; | FOUR. DID YOU ALLOW ANYBODY To ENTER THE BASEMENT OF ‘HE CITY HALL LAST SUNDAY MORNING THAT DID NOT SHOW. You ROPER IDENTIFICATION OTHER THAN THE TWO MEN You TOLD CHIEF PISHER ABOUT. ANSWER - NO. ae | we ; . wN YN . HW.55923. Docld:32267370 Page 91 °° ; _
NO WNUPGER. Liv JU ete LU UAL FISHEL Key. © IG THIs “TDENT. ANSWER - NO. ‘HIS Is IC IDE NT. ANSWER - YES. HAVE. YOu TOLD CHIEF FISHER THE COMPLETE TRUTH REG GARDING IT IS THE OPINION OF HIS EXAMINER THIS PERSON ANSWERED ‘ACH OF THE QUESTIONS WITH THE TRUTH. 7 | | 7 THE LETTER RE DANTELS CONTAINS THE. FOLLOWING DATA - | "AT THREE TEN Pi, DECEMBER ELEVEN LAST, . POLYGRAPH | XAMINATION WAS GIVEN To N.g’ DANI ELS. | THIS EXAMINATION WAS GIVEN TO DETERMINE IF MR. DANTELS ‘AS TELLING THE aun DT Tare MENT HE HAD GIVEN.” DURING THE? RE-TEST INTER VIEL J WITH MR. DANIELS, HE TATED THAT HE WAS SURE THE PERSON sue stares HE HAD-SEEN ENTER WE CITY HALL BASEMENT WAS NOT JACK RUBY. HE STATED THAT HE oe PICTURE OF JACK RUBY AND THAT RUBY DID NOT Lock IKE THE PERSON HE STATED THAT HE HAD ‘SEEN. HE WAS VERY ‘ONFUSED DURING THIS INTERVIEW AND STATED HE WAS NOT SURE OF NYTHING IN HIS STATEMENT. HE ALSO STATED. THAT HE FELT LIKE HE SQUAD HE SAW COME OUT OF THE BASEMENT HAD ENOUGH TIME TO ‘ET TO THE COUNTY JAIL B EFORE. THIS PERSON y ENTERED. THE BASE-- ISNT OF THE CITY HALL. | - 7 NY MW 55923 Docld:32267370. Page 92 So . ae ~
AGES DL 44-1639 “HE WAS THEN PLACED ON THE POLYGRASH AND” THE FOLLOWING ERTINENT QUESTIONS WERE ASKED AND ANSWERS GIVEN. . ONE. -HAVE YOU TOLD THE COMPLETE TRUTH IN. THE STATEMENT OU GAVE. ANSWER YES. INDICATION, FALSE. - TWO. HAVE, You DELI ERATELY MADE UP ANY OF THIS STORY. NSWER NOL INDICATION FALSE. THREE. DO You THINK THE PERSON YOU STATED You Saw ENTER 7 BASEMENT AT- THAT TIME WAS 5 JACK RUBY. ANSWER NO. INDI- FOUR. “oD YOU ACTUALLY SEE THE PERSON You D DESCRIBED. OME FROM THE DIRECTION OF THE WESTERN ‘UNION. ANSWER YES. NDICATION FALSE. Ce | FIVE. DO YOU THINK THIS. PERSON. ENTERED THE BASEMENT OF SIX. HAVE YOU. SEEN ‘THE PERSON You DESCRIBED IN YOUR CATE MENT: AROUND THE CITY HALL BEFORE. DID NOT ANSWER THIS.” WW 35923 DoociId: 32267370 Page 93 7 . : o
‘oe: DL 44-1639 | | “SEVEN. | HAVE You GIVEN A TRUE DESCRIPTION OF THE PERSON. OU STATED YOU SAW ENTER THE BASEMENT, OF THE CITY HALL. NSUER YES. INDICATION FALSE. | - | EIGHT. DID You ACTUALLY SEE THE PERSON YOU DESCRIBED NTER THE BASEMENT oF THE CITY HALL. ANSWER YES. INDICATION ALSE. | | | a - 7 “NINE. DID You GET a GOOD LOOK AT THIS PERSON. ANSWE: ES. INDICATION FALSE. ee ; HOST OF THE’ ABOVE QUESTIONS WERE REPEATED ON OTHER ARTS WITH THE SAME ANSW: ERS GIVEN AND SAME INDICATIONS | | genres AND DL PD INVESTIGATION WILL BE INCLUDED | | } LATER REPORTS. NO POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION VAUGHN OR DANIELS ’ BUAGENTS CONTEMPLATED UAC Bs | | . | SS UTHRU YES OK 00 an DACK PLS WA ee oe 55 PM .OK FBI WA LLD R ‘HW 55923 Docid: 32267370 _ Page 94 ,
JFK # F-545 F-546 F-448 PHONE’ PROJECT Index of Exhibits September 26, 1978 Identification Jack Ruby -. Toll Calls, 1963 | Blow-up Computer print-out of Ruby telephone calls , Memorandum, dated February 24, 1964, from Hubert and Griffin to Willens of Warren Commission staff, re: telephone Memorandum, dated April 4, 1964,. from Hubert. and Griffin to Willens of Warren Commission staff Warren Commission staff memorandum, -dated May 14, 1964, re: Adequacy of Ruby Investigation Warren Commission staff memorandum, ° dated June 1, 1964, re: Adequacy of Ruby Investigation Memorandum, dated June 1, 1964, from Hubert and Griffin to Willens of Warren Commission staff , NW 35923 Docld: 32267370 Page 85
AON. 190 d3S_— ONY IAP © so aNAr AVN HdV a ET a) eee il = () LT ae é , &~ FT ae ee snoloidsns y | | 0€ “ \ Or | SIIBD IIV: 0g 09 OL | 06 OOL 1 OZL — o¢1 slie9 jo “on e961 - STIVO TIOL - AgNY yOWr Oz 08 “OLL Page 96 MW 55323 Docld: 32267370
TIME CALL. DURATION ee : st DATE PLACED. "OF CALL 11/08/63 «16347004 MIN jo (11708763. «17:22 014 MIN S SUMMARY OF TELEPHONE CALLS TELEPHONE .NO PERSON | TYPE PLACING CALL ‘ CALLED CALL EDEN ROC HOTEL DUSTY MILLER BAKER ROBERT PERSONAL 7711 FR STATION 7712 FR SUBSCRIBER 5900 SHERIDAN ROAD CHICAGO IL R1I72362 CAROUSEL CLUB 1312 1/2 COMMERCE ST DALLAS TX RI72362: CAROUSEL CLUB 1312 172 COMMERCE ST DALLAS TX AUDIT NUMBER 7843 7843 wo ¢ s2é67370€ Pagel 9a NW 55983 Do$Ia
"TA esas aie ane me en “reeked es ~aw- See “oer soteys0< Page Coes FROM: = - Mr, Leon D. lubert Mr.: Burt W. Griffin a . In furtherance of your conversation with Mr, Griffin on February -~ 20th and our joint memorandum of February 19, the following steps are - suggested to be taken ag soon as possible for obtaining and preserving . telephone. records which may be pertinent to the work of this Commission. - Some of the SUEZ estions may impose ‘burdens upon private parties which are not justified by the possible results to be obtained. If so, they should bc rejected and the reason for such rejection recorded in. order to asaure future eritics that such efforts: were carefully con= Sidered. en wooo . Paragraphs one, two and three. seek telephone numbers of phones . “reasonably available” to Ruby plus: records of calls. placed fron phoneg -. under Ruby's direct control. Paragraph four seeks telephone: mumbers, of all phones reasonably. available to certain persons. - Paragraph. five peeks cooly phones. J listed to or under the control of. certain people. Paragraph six to ten are > designed to lay a » basis for further investigation. oe “id, The FBI should imsediately obtain be telephone numbers, names of subscriber, location and type. of service of all phones reasonably available to Jack Ruby. "Reagonably available” should include, but not. be limited to, subscriber and pay telephones at the All Right Parking Garage’, Adolphus’ Hotel, the Egyptian Lounge, Phil's Delicatessen, Cabana Motel, Sol's quart Bar, Dallas City Hall and Jail, Dallas Morning News, Radio Station KLIF, together with sny pay phones within reasonable walking distance of said places or any other places which Ruby frequented. Numbers and information conearning phones "reasonably available" to Ruby — in Dalles may be obtained by personal . contact with subscribers or’ the ' telephone company... Information ag to phones available outside Dallas Shem nor, involv: contact wath, non~reeidents. of Dallas. oo whe ; Re ,
Mr. Howard P, #Willens - oe SO February 2, 1964 ® . 2. The FBI should immediately obtain with respect to Jack Ruby, 4 oy 7: For the- period August. 1 to November 25, 1963, coplea of all original — eeeres — “telephone company records bearing upon the dates, time, length of call, - calling number, billing number, person celling and number called with respect. to all telephone calle (including local calls) utilizing any telephone listed to Jack. Ruby or any of hig Clubs, including pay phones on or near the premises, If. the telephone company hag no records which would provide information concerning local. calls, the FBI. should so ' state. a 7 It isa. unnecessary ‘at. thts: point. to obtain -call records from all -.° phonés "reasonably available to Ruby" ginoce analysia of calls from such - phones would be impossible without further information. However, we contemplate thet if we establish a list of suspected intermediaries between Ruby and Oswald, it would. be valuable to check telephones 7 "available" to Ruby against calls to the “intermediaries". In addition, it may be valuable to examine records of telephones listed to or used ' regularly by suspected, "intermediaries" for calls to phones navellable" to | Ruby. 3... with: respect to all recorde requested in peragraph. two, the _ FBI should indicate in its report what telephone company personnel were questioned, the queations asked and the. answers received, in all investi- gationa which were conducted, so that it may re determined that the . mo, records obtained are camplete and accurate. We believe that the methed @ of searching for records must be detailed since telephone information forwarded so far: has been: spotty and inaccurate, a a” i he To the ‘extent not already provided, the FBI should be requested _ to obtain for thé Camaigaion e list of all telephones (but not call records) reasonably available to the following persons gince March 1, 1963: . Andrew Armstrong, 382. Dickson Circle, Apartment C, Delles, Texag. © Karen: Bornett Carlin, aka Karen Bennett Karl in, aka "Little Jyzn" ; + 3809 Meadowbrook, Fort Worth »- Texas. Fs Bruce Carlin, aka. Bruce Karlin, 3809 Mesdowbrook, Fort worth, Texas. Marion (aka Marian) Rubenstein Carroll, 1044 ¥, loyola, Chicago, Tl. Eileen Rubenstein Kaminsky, 6724 N. ‘Tolman, Chicago, Llinois Lewia J. Maviillie, Les: Vegea, Nevada no, . : Hyman Rubenstein,, 1044 W _ Toyota, Ehicago, Diinois Cc OF aa Sam (Rubenstein) Ruby, meré Janestomn Road, Dalles, Texas. 7 ao ; | -2- | ee
Mr, Howard P, Willens | , February 25 1964 : H ' ne Berl | (hbenstetn) Baby, 29925 Woodland 1 Drive, Southiielay Mehler oo Re tote Oe ee Cee) ee ame, a an ra t ’ Ralph Peul, Arlington, Texas. . po c/o Bert Bowman, Copeland Road, arlington, Texas (liome) - 4 ne _ Podnuh's Restaurant, Arlington, Texag (access) _ John W.. Jackson, 1602 Browning, Avlington, Texaa (acess) © . 7. a Bull. Pen Drive-In, 1936 Enat. Abram, Arlington, Texas. (business) L aa "Anne Rubenstein Yalpert, “104d ¥. “Loyola, Chicago, Dlinots,” f + » The date March 1 is chosen because it establishes e safe margin for inquiry prior to Oswald's trip to New Orleans. With respect to each ' of the above persons, the FRI should provide numbers, to the extent t possible, not. anly cf home telephones but nearby pay phones, telephones of any businesses in which the individunl.1s employed, telephones of [ 4. business partners or other similar close tusineds associates, telephones ae a. of friends and relatives visited frequently, and telephones at restaurants and other businesses which the individual is: known to frequent. Foresch = = = 7 telephone the FBI should. indicate the type of service (pay phone, sub- _ -seriber phono, limited service. telephones), name of gubseriber, location of phone, and reason for concluding the phone was accessible to the : r individual under investigation. This information should be obteined =~ —— primarily by examining records which will. not. involve personal contact — with persons. outside of the telephone companies and without communicating the names of suspects: to persons outaide the FBI. We realize that such a means of investigation will not. provide a complete answer to our questions, » ‘but. we believe other modes of inquiry would be unwise at this time. As to each individual under investigation, the FBI report. should indicate what sources were. checked and what other information os to possibly accessible | phones might be. available by direct contact with individuals. , 1 nl wt peed 5. The FBI should obtain fron a: telephone company records check ' the personal, family and business phones cf the following persons during the period March 1, 1963 to present: a pe ee Barney: Baker,. $900 Sheridan Road, Chicago, Dlinois (home) . Chicago Loop Auto Refinishing Co. nt _ «3216 South Shiolds AVE, Chicago, TL . (business) 7 Curtia LaVerne Crafard, aka Larry Crafard ({ineluding phones available ; 4 vas ae to. Aig on 3 hla. “flight. from. Pallas to Michigan’). eee I ee ness 905°"F “hoard riser sae Bocce ‘Tai
tr. Moward P. Willen a Fonruary 24, 1904 @ Coe - Sant Gorden, 0 2 crescent Drive, Pala Springs, Calif, . Alex Gruber, ‘$222 w, ‘Olympic, los dogeles, Calif. (aE 52082) - oy ¥ Frank Coldstetn, 649 Teresita Boulevard, Sen Frenciace, Calif. | (IU 7-7674) - (SU. 1-7343) Lawrence Meyers, 3950 HN, Lake Shore Drive, Chicago, Illinois (home) _ Ero. Mfg. Coe, 714, Hest Monroe Chicago, mu, (bosiness) Ray Fillion Pilkey aka Wekey Byan, 2344, Connecticut Lane, Apt. C., oo Dalles, Texag 4 : Anesi Usbartc, Chteago, munis Mario Unberto, Chiengo, Diltnois Abe einstein, L028. Wetmore Circle, Dallae, Texas. 6. The FBI should confer with the ‘appropriate officials of ‘telepbone ia companies in Chisago, Dallas, Detroit, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and New Orleans to determine what means, if my, are available | for cbtaining infcrmation as to incoming long distances telephone calls to - any particular mumber if the name of the caller is mimcen., Iv is con- | '  eeivable, for example, that connecting or trunk-line telephone carriers @ may have sutountic. recording devises which record tha calling exchange | . end the dlaled mmber with respect. to calls which they transmit, Or, it | ns “gay be that most telephone companies in large cities are now so fully © ott sutomated that. such information is somtalned on their IM carla and these ~~ x TEM cards could be run through a computer or other device for every | telephone subscriber in the area so that such information could be derived mechanically without. undue expense cr personal effort. Information as to city or telephone company from which.a long distance call originated could concelvably be meaningful in light of. other data which we have. — —T. Tie , FBI ghould confer with telephone company officteals of each . company serving Jack Ruby and the persons listed in paragraph four and 7 fiva. to ascertain if that: company has any means of providing jntorpatsons concerning lecal calls to.or fron the phones of these persons, Even if no records are maintained by such compentes in the ordinary course of business, it may be that cartain electronia mechanical. or other entries - are routinely made either by telephone tranamitting equinment or in connection with business records ordinarily noaintained by the telephone company: ao that. by careful examination of guch data info mation eon ee a eerning tocel telephone activity on a particular telephone could ba ws Obtained, To whatever extomt information can be obtained concerning = - local telephone activity, the Agent should report to the Comission the — ne nature of the information which can be obtsined and the means by which ~~ @ it. would be cotatined, This date should be secured without, mentioning . — particular nIxces or telephone. mimbers. oat aa 7 ™ pa . = fo a a il Tee : : * . a NW 55923 ~ Dootd: 32267370 "Page 102
Pe eee eer oe ee ae ot Mr. Howard P, Wid ens: . ; | Pebruary 21, 1964. & The FBI should obtain a list of all telephone companies and i» bbe { Chief. Executive Officer (Serving, the. = FoLLowing. areas: . Texas. Nevada. co | ios Angeles, C:lifornia ' San Francisco, California. Chicago, Illinois : oe Detroit, Michigan: end ‘adjacent suburbs in the Detroit netropolitan area, including Southfield, Michigan - ... Boston, Massachusetts and ad jacent suburba, {neluding Belnont, Hass. ' New York metropolitan. area,- including 6 auburban long Island, - So Comacticut and New Jersay Miani, Florida Washington, D. G. and adjacent aubirbs. New Orleans ;. louisiana 9, Mr, Rankin should sddress a letter to the Chief Executive cf . each of the telephone companies mentioned in paragraph eight. requesting that such companies not destroy until June 1, 1964 any records thoy © may have with respect to telephone service of all subseribers. The letter should request that. the source of this palicy not be disclosed. Retention of reconls on a dlanket basis would. preserve security ag to. the thinking of the. Commission and will afford the maxiram ascurance that telephone records will be preserved with respect to persona not. yet suspect, ‘We realize that. blanket retention may be so burdensome or expensive as WO make our request seea unreasonable, If there is any suggestion slong these - dines; ry conference: Je. work out a Teagonala’ system. should be suggested. 10, As. goon aa poss sible after the Ruby trial and after consultotion with the Commission, the FBI should obtain copies of original telephone . records uncovered es a result of the investigations requested in paragraphs four and five, These records showld be analyzed to determine possible links to Ruby or Oswald. Thereafter, if deomed advisable, records of phones "xeasonably available" to Ruby would be analyzed for possibie calls to phones "reasonably available to suspected intermadieries between Baby” ard Ogwald. 4 Ty TT on i) nn ari, arent eo aE ~
¥) Ou im ts eed wet eh ia) at we a La. ~ , Pfu. SAD if Pa) Tas Diet u. Ta Lob. as F 5. ne ‘ wi 49 ‘A Og Be yt me Bol 2) oy te a any) dort oS t re Sat + wo fi dy 42 4 ew a “3 4 wl gr al “ 3 ae wo be a. woe a ee ee: nn ir Ce ree: 5s) fy ' . y hee oa see t sho fe 2 shyngl ga Babe Hey hye ty ae, 4 g et gy ey oT oh xt : i : mora ¢ pI a Coa Sue Kean { a a3 & ard TE ect ont e ae ty ay os ar ed Oh a0 n uy ai ie i ‘a ‘e Be ti ad ” fy Lp tl fs Re : ” . v3 Esty 3 re : t onaarre a iF es i a foe Ma OS BO Ft wh mes Ral as a wd) ¢ ” Roy ae mee OAS. oe Be a B Fes bay wy “J vane hy We § oe “Se Pay ef d 4 4 we . “ “ tb n ‘3 ~ Wy Rw t g 3a to og fq ghcet Ar 4 b tes tS ag we LB uh id 2 BE weet od id beds cS 3 a1 hg Ae ne sed ad & Op et th aut ty oe fs Mig oo om mu i a te a he OF ey OS SS oah & vot $ % a gt: ta) we cl en et a > rh nog a 4 tc eto i ES : : as #3 ck 3 OK Lat cael es : ant ' nr 4 ho owe By aa Ee oot me ae Qf ; SI ba al o 3 mw ie sy C4 “> “] 3 anee { . > BL en ee ee é Gee ah 8b Bek FABRA ono ee Ie ey ai a 3 M4 fe 4 6 OA oy rg ie : cj 3 Ps, 2 ad “3 are ‘ oy ay ont {4 wa et a4 a vt . ay Boab Ly ve a’??? ga BR 8  steres FR geea Banos oa dae Ga ary le Sn en 2 2 2 Won. esas ep ee poy oe me ¥ fae Ped OH A ee Be fe s “3 Nel & mh t ae aan” c ‘ ua yes y ay 4G Shoe we da ema cd ot or ak af w are 5) bet Be Re (ORB 9b Boo _ 3 2 3 8 es rl Re ate oO & "i “4 * re) HA Cd ge Gb "2 ; or tr ee er Be tan fe ae CM OB Qo Wt LT me Ov ae Ramya a 4 a an, ] at od ae AD US Gp et a 3 @ gt oh a> 4 a rf wf ay ee Gerd Gy yl ee af C03 By ogy ees i 2 ao ces od Th ty ag Oded 4 > - hay oe t } r - ies 4 a *) "4 Mey wa i WO ta ane | mh | RY < ra) wl i Re og ‘ o> a ne a ry 2 T- J wre ~ th ge ~ u A Aes . " dev 8 5 a ge Benge?  8Py Eysaids bReneeé | ¢ ¢ : Me gh 43 eye oN towbar! ao. Ary Se Ge et disp a J RH Boy | oy Sa a 9 ne f Pom BAYT OS en Ri ooo) . 6 bal fo te i +4 SL gs | of ae ery ; + 3 5 fn ot Ms phe a4 fy si Py i443 2 OE peo Ge selon ak VE Babaas RM EE " ls .. av ‘~ Q “4 fo wt moa FY ra . I ; io & “OA Gy ote 8 & ; ft Q aa fo ot 2 . ny wt fey ° ty . 4 . i oo Gas Ta on 4 ™ & 8 - + * Ps Slam O le a3 ~ we “ 4%) 6SatO 8 .O G 2 OF 763 ro SA a oo We
tc,  Asidé freon thia, fo 4% proper for ELLs re » . a high penk ad prestige of this Cemmission cougiant a Y & “ek . + 2 + ea Ak ot wl corely wot to the Untted Sta “eT. » twat a es. . i tee et wees Cc a) -... 2. fo think toet tis Comulusion'’s resort could very premachy cbele 7 _— > Sey Bow ew. * sy? mat ; they conciusicw roletive te ar scpect of Bogle ar his eehivition ow * va ‘ 5 ’ . . ary concicasad improner hecmse of his nanding specel and thet a. Hubert /Oriflin/ $/h-LO4 _ CO: Kubert chron file. 1&. Rankin © . ie, Willens ns . ee 2 oNw7559S3> -Desratyoseiaao, “Bb a oeeeheeneneanene bees Te ae OI So e ial ae 32 maaan Geese Cl eben ae ‘ +e . , Ssateeamennnc ieee a
"Leon D. “wubert, Sr. Burt: We Griffin no Subject: Adequacy of Ruby Invest igation 1. Past Recommends tons. “In memoranda Gata February 9, 0008 ‘ February o4, Pepruary 27, and. March 11, we made various a suggestions for extending the investigation inttiated by ther... . FEE. in. connection. with . the Oswald hamicide. Shortly arter . ‘March 11, 1964, we began preparation for. the nearly 60. : deposit tons taken in Dallas during the period March 21-April 2: J. after we returned from Dallas we took the deposition of C. Lees | “ooh. Crafard (two days) and George Senator (two days), worked on. - - editing the depositions taken in Dallas, and prepared for - another serics of 30 other depositions taken 4n Dallas during wa. the period. April.13-17. On our return from Dallas we con- - - tinued the editing of the Dallas depositions, prepared the = oo yoo: Dailas deposition exhibits for publication, and began worlcing:. - Ona Graft of the report.in Area V. AS a. consequence of all Of ; 7 thts activity curing the period March 11-May 13, we cid not. “o.. press for the conferences and discussions’ referred to in the. ote @ -- attached memorenda. The following represents sur view at this. ~ * tine with respect to appropriate ; further: investigation. oS 7 oe Ba General Statement of Areas Not Ace uately investigated. ‘In reporting on the murder of Lee CGswald oy Jack Kuby, we | ar mast answer or at teast advert to these ques tions: fee =) why ata Ruby panel Oswald: 7 b) vas Trudy. associated with the assassin of ee oe President Kennedy; _ Ol, ee) Did Ruby: have. any confederates: in, the murder . oo of. Oawald? a 7 “It is our belief that, antnough the evieénes aathoned 36° fu, does not show a conshiratorial link between Ruby and Oswald,» or between Ruby and others, nevertheless evidence should be. Secured, if possible, to affirmatively exclude that: @ 7 MW 55923 Docld:32267370 Page 106
future, persons will come forward who will claim to have been . oo in Dalles during the critical period and who will. claim to _ ',. | have important information. These records may serve to =. - . @onfirm or refute their claims. 0 00 000 _ “TpHubert/smh .ces.. Mr, Hubert. {- HW 55923 Doold:32267370 Page 116 the present time. But, for example, 1t is likely that in the
_. MEMORANDR a "90: Messrs. Leon Ds Hubert, Ir. and Burt W. Griffin SUBJECT: Adequacy of Ruby Investigation. oe As. weal. know, your memorandum dabed May Us, 1964, bearing the above title has been ¢ 12 ‘subject of consldsrable discussion ayongz the tyo of you, Br. Rankin, Mr. Redlich and co As a result of those discussions steps have been taken to implement most of the specific investigative recommendations r | _ 8et forth in eection § beginning on page 4. In fact ,» it appears _ to me that all of these requests are in the process of being _ duplemented through. subsection & vi entitled Breck Wall, with . the exception that no background investigation has been requested . regarding Mr. Wall. As to the recommendation in subsection g¢ vil that background investigation be conducted regarding the slx named persons, it has been decided that no such general investigation is werrented. It was agreed, hovever, that any duvestigative requests submitted by you regarding specific testimony of these persons, in ‘order to test veraclty, might be appropriate. me a 7 Oa Hay 27, 1964 I discussed with Mr, Griffin the status: of the investigation in Area 5. Tais discussion was prompted not only by your memorandum dated May Vi, but also the discussion held | in Mr. Rankin's office on the prior day, May 26, dealing with the initinl draft submitted by you relating to Ruby's bachkeround. I requested Mr. Griffin to stop his current work on the first draft end submit to me within. the next few business days £very single _ investigative: reuuest which he believes is. necessary to complete the investigation tn his areas, Mr, Griffin pgreed to this and X have today received approxinately 10 such investigative requests, | which have either been sent forvard to Mr. Rankin for approval. and signature or, after discussion with Hr. Griffin, ore being revised. If any additional reguests are contemmlated, XT would lik > to be © advised today. . : _ a een, MW 55923 Doocld: 32267370 Page ii7