Silvia Tirado Interview Page 17. - Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: At the Consulate. And do you know what you did at that time?_. No, it was almost noon, I mean the lunch hour, about two o'clock, ox near two o'clock, and some- body came and said Kennedy was killed, and all was confusion and, uh, well, we were really sorry. Everybody came in and went out and there was con- fusion. All over. And then I went home to have lunch. Did you speak to Horatio or anyone else prior to going home? I don't remember, really. When you went home was he at home? We used to have lunch. And? As you recall he was there on that day? It was my birthday so he has to be there. (Laughter.) What if any conversation do you recall having with him at that time about.the assassination? No, I don't remember. I only remember at night. All right. You had a birthday party planned that night. Is that correct? Yes. / ut During the day, prior to the birthday party, had you received or heard as part of the news broadcast - the name Lee Harvey Oswald? No, only in the afternoon.
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 18, Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: In the afternoon, after lunch? Yes. - After you returned to the Consulate, is that correct? Perhaps. And at that time, did you think you remembered the name? | It was, I think, at night, because, it was in the afternoon, perhaps when they start saying about Oswald. Right? And, it was at night and uh, I don't know if I call my husband or we were in the kitchen mixing some drinks or food, I don't know, but we were in the kitchen and I told him, I think this man went to the Embassy to ask for a visa. And at that time, had you heard his name? His name? His name, seen his picture, or both? No, no. The picture was in the newspapers the next day. _ | Okay. So you only thought that you might have re- called the name. Is that correct? No, not the name, but when they say Lee Harvey Oswald, y married to the Russian woman~and he live in Russia, and things like that. Okay. Did you have any other discussion that you can recall with him about it? Based on that news
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 19. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: report? About your contact? With my husband? | Yes. I only told him, I think this man came to the Em- bassy. | Then, the next morning you saw a newspaper. Yes. Were you sure at that time that that was the man? ‘Yes. Do you remember who was at the birthday party that night? Do you remember whether or not you discussed these events with any one else at the party? Yes, we were talking about it. Whoever was at the party. The whole night, yes. What was the tone of the party? Sorrow. And speculation, what's going on? Because with Kennedy we knew what was going on, but now, what will happen? The next morning what did you do? I show the paper tc Horatio and told him this is the Z we man that went to the Embassy~and I went to the Consu- Archivos late and I look in the and I saw the ap- rt plication, I saw that it was the man and I went to the Embassy and I talked to the Ambassador and I told him that this
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 20. Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: What was the nature of your conversation with the Ambassador? Just to tell him that that was the man? Yes, I think so. What was his name? Fernandez Armes (or Hernandez). And, did you do anything else? Did you pull the file on him or make any other attempts to put the facts together? I think I leave the file with him. Pulled the file and left it with the Ambassador? Yeah, the whole bunch. What would have been in the file besides the appli-. -cation, if anything? Another applications. I see, you pulled the whole file which included his application? Yes. Did anything else happen that morning at work? No. Then, did you go home for lunch again? Yes. Varn And what occurred at that time? Uh, my brothers-in-law,. servant, maid’ came and when she saw me, she cried, she started crying, and she said "You're alive?" And I say “why?"/"because some man
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 21. Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: a came to the house and says that uh, you had an accident and you were dead and they take away Senor Ruben to identify you. Then we went to Ruben's house and it was full of men and they catch me. They caught you. Okay. And the men were representa- tives of the Mexican police, is that correct? Yeah, but they never told me. What happened when you walked into the house, to Ru- ben's house? I saw my prothers-in-law, wife, and the same thing. She cries, and says "Silvia, you're okay?" “Yes, I'm okay." She was between two men and she couldn't get near to me, but I was walking and I saw in the bedroom, it was Ruben, and full of photographs on the bed and he said the same thing--"Silvia, you're okay, you're all right?" and TI say "yes" and "What happened?" Then I saw the telephone and I try to get the telephone and a man hold my'hand and he says you can't call because you are under arrest, and they say, I don't remember, but they say, ah, this is the accomplice of Kennedy. I thought that's what they told but I say I don't remember. They told me, "You're under arrest." I sat down on the bed and I said "You have to show me an order signed by a judge that I am under arrest." Then they hold
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 22. ‘they kicked somebody and they took me-- Cornwell: Tirada: Cornwell: Tirado: (Laughter. Tirado: Cornwell: Tiardo: Cornwell: Tirado: ete al me, my hands, and I try to defend myself, and You were trying to kick them and keep them from tak- ing you with them, right? Yes, yes. Who were you going to call on the telephone? The police. ) The police, the lawyer, I don't know. And when they took me out of the house and I was crying, "Call the police, call the police!" and they, he covered my mouth, and they took me to stationwagon that was parked at the corner. There was a man there but I didn't know him and I was quiet, and they say, “Don't cry. Sacndalous woman." “Scandalous old woman, shut up. Because where we are going we will see what's going to happen to you." So, in that moment, I said quit. So you were taken to the police station? No. It's not the police station. The office where the security, that was where ‘the intelligence agencies were in. But I didn't know that because that building belongs to the State Social Security. -Not the one I | work for. oe Then? For government employees.
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 23. Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado:. Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: And who else was taken down there besides you? The whole--my prother-in-law, his ‘wife, my sister- in-law, a friend of hers, another woman that was there, and me, but they were taken in another car. And, at the police station, what inquiries were made of you? What did they ask? Everything. Everything. They asked me my name, where was. I born, my jobs, when I married, my status, everything. They have my finger-prints, photographs of myself, everything. And uh, well, they ask me where I was working, if I had been in Cuba, some peo - ple that I saw in Cuba, and what I was doing at the Consulate, that there was a tunnel, that makes me laugh, it was a tunnel from the Cuban Embassy to the Russian Embassy, and uh, well, a lot of foolish ques- tions. Specifically, what did they allege that you had done? What? Specifically, what did they allege you had done? What did they accuse you of doing? | Nothing. They never said-- During the questioning on all the subject matters that you had mentioned, did they make a verbatim transcript? Did they record the conversation, or transcribe it? They used a little machine. They say: it is a steno- graph or something like that. ‘They made a stenograph record. Yeah, and a man was writing. or el
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 24. Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tixrado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: All the questions and all the answers? Yes. | - Did any of the procedures that we have asked you about cause you to say anything to the police that was not the truth? No, I don't think so. I don't have nothing to hide. So. Everything that you told them was the truth? Yes. At any time during the questioning did they ever allege that you had met with Oswald outside the Consulate? Yes. A lot of times. Did they ever ask you any questions about a Negro? I don't remember. | You don't remember anything about that? No. Did you ever know, during this same period of time, any Negroes? Yes. At the Commercial Attache was a Negro. Anyone else? The doorman. Anyone else? pe The wife of the Commercial Attache. And the children. Is that all? Did they ask any specific questions about them?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 25. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado:. Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: No. What was his name? I don't remember. I even don't remember if he was there when Kennedy was shot. Were they from Cuba? Yes. bid you know any other Negroes from Cuba outside the Consulate? I don't think so. Well, this man, the boy at ‘Consu- lado at Vera Cruz. Hewas aNegro, not completely, but-- The one you showed us in the photograph? Yes. Did you know any Negroes who had red hair? None of the ones you described did? No, weused to call "“Red* toa boy who was working there but he was like Spanish; I mean he was white and-- Not even very dark skinned? No. on Remember his name? Rogelio, Rogelio Rodriguez, I think, something like that. After the questioning, first, how afd that terminate? When did they finally release you? About one o'clock. Did you meet again with your family, your husband?
Silvia Tirado ‘Page 26. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: ‘I don't remember. Yes. Well, they were waiting for me and. we went to have lunch, something to eat because we haven't had. And well, we talk about it. Remember where you went? No. Horacio told me we went to Sanborn's. I even don't remember when I got home and what happened. Next day everyone know. Did the officers from the ‘Securidad Department ever suggest to you during the questioning that they had information that you and Oswald had been lovers? Yes, and also that we were Communists and that we were planning the Revolution and uh, a lot of false things. What happened the next day? Well, we stayed home and at night a friend of ours came and we didn't say anything. Why was that? Why ? Why did you not say anything? Because these people told me to keep quiet. The police? yoo Yes. Or the officers? ” Yes. Did you then go back over to the Consulate either Sunday or Monday?
Silvia Tirado Page 27. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: On Monday. Okay. What happened then? ; When I got there everybody ask me what happened? And I say "Why?" And in the newspaper was the this part of the question that I told you about, Azcue telling Oswald to go away. | It was in the newspapers? Yes. How did the newspapers get that story? I don't know. | You never had any idea? Well, of course. The solice gave it to Excelsior. It was the first government newspacer. So you just always thought they got it from the police? But the people at the Consulate said they had read the newspaper and asked you what had happened, right? Yes. ~ Did you discuss that with anybody that you can remem- ber specifically? With the Ambassador. var And what was the nature of that conversation? I tried to repeat all the questions... .would that have been a violation of Okay. Uh. what the police asked you to do? To talk to the
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 28. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Ambassador about that? Huh? Was that a violation of what the police asked you to do? Was that. Well, of course. They told me to keep quiet. I never says anything about what happened on Saturday. Never. But when I saw in the papers I couldn't say "Well, nothing happened." It was all in the paper and it was exactly what I said to the police. What did the Ambassador say to you? That he was going to write a report and he sent it in the plane. What if anything did you consider doing at the time? What? Did you consider taking any course of action at the time? Oh. I was going to make a protest to the Mexican Government. We went to, a friend of mine was a daugh- ter of the Chief of Tinetrafh) and we could reach the President and we were going to ask to explain what happened and you know, there was an illega! {tape Lf td stops)... ae. Did, in addition to your considering filing formal protest with the Mexican Government, did you also consider taking a trip out of the country? No.
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 29. Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Did you consider going to Cuba? No. . on What happened after that? Well, I told to the Ambassador all that happened during the questioning and I told him also about the protest that we wanted to make and I asked him, "Don't do anything because we are trying to do something here, against these police." And after that, uh, Tuesday, I went to work and Wednesday morning when I was going to have breakfast the police came again, two agents, and they asked me, very polite, if I want to go with them, just to answer some questions. They wanted to know some- thing. And, uh, it was unnecessary to take my car because they were going to take me and bring me back. So I called uh, the Consulate. That's why I remember I already had the telephone and I said I'm coming in late because I'm going to the police station. Okay, don't worry, we wait for you. And they keep me two days and a half. And why did they tell you that they kept you this time? a Uh, to protect me. _ Did they tell you anything in any more detail? Was there a specific threat? on oe as
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 30. Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: No. They were very rough this time. They were very angry with me, the man that I. told you, that I kicked him in his balis.. He was very angry, and they repeat the same questions but they were more, how you say, how do you say anticipito? | They anticipated her. And they were, wanted to know exactly what I have done in Cuba, the people that I met there, everything. They were asking me questions about all the people that were working in the Embassy and uh, this time I wanted to go to the bathroom and they wouldn't take me and it was longer, because it was about 10:00 from 10:00, I think almost 6:00, they questioned me. Were you afraid during the two periods they held you? ves. I don't know exactly what happened but I was uh, I was innocent. So I said, what am I doing here, no? And uh, the only thing that I have, I had the feeling that I was going to die and 1 said okay, if I'm going to die, I'm going to die, how you say it, with pride, my child will not be shamed. I remember I do anything that--I was very dramatic in those mo- ments. So, sometimes I Lost _my temper. I never say no. bad words or nothing. I cry sometimes, I shout and things like that but then I sat down again. As I understand it, they tried to scare you, is. that correct?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 3l. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Yes. The first time. The first time. Because of that was there anything that you knew that you simply refused to tell them? That's what they thought. Because all the time they tell me that I was a Communist and I said I'm not a Communist, but do you believe in Socialism? Yes, I believe in Socialism but I'm not a Communist; and they insisted that I was a very important people for ‘the government, the Cuban Government, and that I was the link for the International Communists--the Cuban Communists, the Mexican Communists and the American Communists, and that we were going to kill Kennedy, and I was the link. For them I was very important. Of course, it was not true. Okay. Even though you were innocent of those charges, you had not conspired to kill the President and were not in the Communist Party. Yes. Because that was what they were interested in, because that was the naturé of the allegation, did you with- hold any part of your story? Were you afraid that something you had done, although innocent, they might have misconstrued, misunderstood, so did you withhold any information from them because of the very severe accusations they were making? No. I tried to answer it, what they,asked me I tried to answer. All the time.
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 32. Cornwell: You understand though, the kind of question I'm asking you? (Tirado spoke to Lopez in Spanish, who asked Cornwell to re- peat the question.) Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Lopez: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Okay, let me just ask you a hypothetical. Some- times, a person has done something completely inno- cent but then they are confronted with a very se- vere accusation. They may think that their innocent act will be misunderstood by their accusers so they might withhold the innocent act simply to be sure that they don't get into more trouble-- No. Simply to be sure they don't get into more trouble than they apparently are already in. No. There was no thing that you had done or seen or knew about that you withheld because of that? No. No, I explain everything that they wanted to know and uh, I think sometimes they were fools. They were what? Fools. Fools. Tonto. Fools. After they finally released you, théy held you for another two, two and a half days. Did you make any
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 33. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: (Tirado speaks to Lopez in Spanish.) Lopez: Cornwell: trips out of the country then? No. How long did you continue to be married to Horatio fter that? . Five years. Why were you finally divorced? We separate and we divorce perhaps four years after. Why was that? Why? Why we divorce four years after? Because we don't like. | Go ahead. Because he did not want’ to get legal problems and he said that it was a lot of problems to get divorced. He was married once so he said that it was nonsense. Why were you separated? Because I used to believe in the romantic love, and even we have a very, how you say that, uh, we loved each other very much but it was not the passionate love that I used to believe in, so I thought it bet- ter to divorce, get divorced. It is very difficult to explain. , uw They were incompatible, had incompatible characters. You have not spoken to anybody in the news media or any official investigating body since 1963 about ‘these events, is that correct, except for the
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 34. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Washington Post and that was approximately a year or so ago, a year and a half ago? . on Yeah. You indicate that you read some part of the Warren Commission Report recently. Do you recall anything about that that was inaccurate other than what you have already related? The part that you read. What? Was there any part of that which was inaccurate that you can recall? What I said. That I was exceeding my duties. Had you either done anything or offered to do any- thing for Oswald other than what you have already described to us? No. And was that all within the scope of your responsi- bility? it was... .? ~ Was it all within the scope of your authority? Scope? (Lopez translates.) a Tirado: (Tirado speaks to Lopez in Spanish.) Cornwell: Yes. Did you ever have any of the people at the Cuban Consulate attend parties in your home? Was there
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 35.. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: a social relationship with any of them? Yes. . | Which ones? Azcue, Maria Carmen, I think Luisa, she went once. Who is that? Luisa? Luisa Caldaron, the one you ask me. Okay. Azcue, Luisa, and the secretary who was killed, is that correct? Before, before this, before I used to work at the Embassy, uh, and before we move to Constitutyentes we make some parties, for instance, when Armando Hart (Ph.) was here, he was the Minister of Education, and with the Ambassador he was in that time and Organa, © who was Director of the Movies Institute, Some people who came from Cuba. We used to invite. Okay. How about Theresa Proenza? Perhaps she came. Did you ever receive any indication from them that any of them had ever had a contact with Oswald? No. Did Elena or Elinita Garro de Paz ever come to those ne parties? In your home? a No. Or in the home of Ruben?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 36: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: ‘Did you know General Clark Flores? Yes. Once, but it was, I think it was before that I was in the Cuban Embassy. 7 Would it have been approximately around 163? I don't know because when they came from France. Approximately 1963? I only, perhaps, I don't know. Did you say that it was when they came from France? Yes. It was after they returned from France that they came to one of the parties? Yeah, to Ruben's house. At Ruben's house. Yeah. That was the whole family there. I only saw Elena a few times. One was the day that I got married and another time was somewhere else, I think three times I only saw her. Yeah, but not very well. Was he ever at those varties? house I don't remember. Perhaps once, at Ruben's but not at my house. . . ao Did you know Emilio Carbillido ? Did he ever attend those parties? I don't remember.
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 37. Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Did Devaci? Devaci. Elena's sister. Did she attend those parties? No, she went, I think I saw her sometimes at the Embassy. | How about - Eunice Odio? No. I know her, I mean I met her sometime. But, no. She was not a close friend. Over the years, have any of those people ever indi- cated to you that they had any knowledge of Oswald's trip to Mexico City? No. Have they ever professed to have either seen him or heard any stories about any one who did see or meet with him? No. Has anyone else ever come to you since 1963 and pro- fessed to have knowledge of Oswald's trip to Mexico City? - | No. Would you have any reason to believe that if we spoke to any of those people they could have information of help to us? | I don't know. Have you ever had any association with any intelli- gence agency of any country, including our own?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 38. Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Cornwell: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: | Tirado: Once I met a Russian when I was working at the Press Agency but he was From the Russian Press, and they say that he was from the police, the Rus- sian Police but I don't know. But you just met him one time? Yes. I don't have any additional questions. I have a few questions of -Ms. Duran. As normal procedure, when a person came to the Cuban Consulate, do you explain to them that there are different types of visas? No. So they would normally come to you and ask you for a special type of visa, and then you would get that kind of application? Uh, huh. Okay. The application was the same. Same application. But they were different visas. There were only two visas. Transit visa and normal visa. You didn't normally explain. to peopfe whether there were two different types of visas when they came to you until after-- Perhaps.
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 39. Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Okay. I just wanted to read to you a couple of sections of what was recorded in the Warren Commis- sion Report. What happened was, there was a report given by the Mexican authorities to the Warren Commis- sion and it was published in the report and let me read you one sentence, okay? The declarant complied with her duties, took down all the information and completed the appro- priate application form, and the declarant admit- tedly, exceeding her responsibilities, informally telephoned the Russian Consulate with the inten- tion of doing what she could to facilitate issu- ance of the Russian visa to Lee Harvey Oswald. Is that statement accurate? It's that one and I don't like it. The other one? That part about admittedly exceeding her responsibili- ties? Uh huh. That's the part you had reference to earlier when you told us that you had read something-- Yes. It says here that you telephoned the Russian Consulate. Yes. Did he ever telephone you back? No. yw Okay. And it says here with the intention of doing what she could to facilitate issuance of the Russian visa. Did you ever do anything else to facilitate the issuance of the visa?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 40. Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: No, nothing. I couldn't do anything. Did you ever explain to him that in order to get a-visa he could have a recommendation letter from a fellow Communist or a fellow Cuban citizen, and then if he had that letter, he could get a visa? Yeah, that was one of the requirements. And then, did you ever send him to anyone, give him the name of anybody? I mean I never did that. No, never. I see. Okay. Then there's another section here that says: However, they told her (this is the Russian Consulate) that there would be a delay of about four months in processing the case. Was that the first time that you explained to Lee Harvey Oswald that it would take him about four'months ~ to: get a visa? Yes, I didn't know it. Was that when he became angry? More or less. More or less. And that would have been on his third visit? a. Yes. Okay. Then there's one other section here. It says: The Consulate who came out and began a heated discussion in English with Oswald, that concluded by Azcue telling him that if it were up to him he would not give him the visa.and a person of this type was harming
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 41. Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: the Cuban Revolution rather than helping it. It being understood that in the con- versation they were talking about the Rus- sian Socialist Revolution and not the Cuban. Is that correct? No. What is your understanding of that? The conversation that he had’ with aAzcue, was exclusively with the Cuban Revolution. Exclusively with the Cuban Revolution. I wanted to ask you, in this réport here, they don't say how many times Lee Harvey Oswald visited the Cuban Consulate. Did you ever tell the Mexican officials how many times he had visited? I think so. And it was probably taken down by a stenographer. Yes. Do you consider this report which is about a page long to be completely fair and accurate and complete? No, because about “exceeding my duties and about Azcue speaking about the Russian Revolution, that's not true. But, my question is, they interrogated, you from about four in the afternoon until about twelve at night, and in that process you spoke to chem for eight whole hours and yet the whole conversation, interro- ‘gation, has been reduced to one page. Do you consi-
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 42. der this accurate? Is it complete? Tirado: No, of course not. Because they ask me a-lot of questions that has not been in the Warren--about my trip to Cuba, about my job at the Institute, the Cuban Institute, about why I have been Communist, as they say, and I say I'm not a Communist, and it takes hours to explain them. And as you explain you are not a Communist, if you are a member of the Communist ‘Party, things like that, and where did you take your beliefs, no? I say at the University, oh, at the University, and then there's a discussion and uh, the classes I take at the University, and things like that. Lopez: Okay. You do remember telling the Mexican officials | when they questioned you how many times Oswald visited the Consulate? Tirado: I think so. And I, they asked me I don't know how many times, the way that I used to give my name and telephone number and.they made me write and they take the paper out and then again, they ask me, how do you do this, and I write it down, and I give the paper. I think I did it five or six times. ; yo Lopez: And did they ever ask you to describe Oswald? Tirado: Yes. we Lopez: Would you do me a favor and describe him for me now?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 44. Lopez: Tixrado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Cornwell: Tirado: Lopez: Cornwell: Tirado: Lopez: He was cheap, perhaps. Do you remember what his nose looked like? Was it skinny? Fat? - No. He was normal. There was nothing that you may remember. The eyes were small. Small eyes. Smaller than yours. Smaller than mine, for the record. I can't do that. If you describe, you say small eyes. Okay. In sum, you identified a picture in the book as being as best as you can remember his face and hair. Was there anything about that which in your memory was different from the picture other than the fact that you do remember his eyes being blue or green and his hair being very light colored or blond but not as light as some of the other pictures look. And he has not very much. He was, has few, poco pelo. a He didn't have very much hair. Is there anything else about that picture in the book which does not look like your memory of him? No, but because even when I saw the television when he was shot, I used to remember him, FY mean it was the same that I remember. I understand. If you bear with me just a few more minutes--his hair line, was it receding?
t Silvia Tirado Interview Page 45. Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez (To Lopez (To Tirado: Lopez: Tixrado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Yeah, yeah. Quite a bit. Okay. And his cheeks, were they high cheek bones or low cheek bones? Do you remember that? _ Well, I remember that he was a little, I don't know what you call it (spoke with Lopez in Spanish.) An elongated face. Uh huh. Did he have a long chin? No. Cornwell): Do you have any more questions about his description? Duran): Just wanted to ask you a few other questions. Did Luis Aparicio ever attend any of those twist par- ties that you had, or that Ruben had? No, Ruben never, Ruben never have parties for the peo- ple at the Embassy. Did he ever attend? _Aparico, he was, I don't remember, where he was, I think he works in the Commercial Office.. I don't remember. You don't remember if he went to any parties? No. But he was at the Cuban Embassy.’ Okay. Dd you know a person named Eunice Odio? was Yes.
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 46. Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: -What was your relationship to Eunice Odio? It was not close. I know her because she's a poetess and uh, well, I know a lot of painters, things like that, but just hello and. . perhaps if I meet her now I don't know if I could recognize or even she recognize me. I see. And did she ever attend any of those parties? No. “Do you know a person named Ricardo Guerra? Yes. And what was your relationship to him? Very close. Very close. Could you elaborate? Well, when I was unmarried I had a lot of friends and his sisters were friends of mine, that's when I met him, before I got married. And when I married, we continued our friendship and uh, he got married with a writer, but I admire her very much, and he was a very close friend of mine, and we continue the rela- tion all the time that we were married. Both. And uh, he was professor at the philosophy faculty, he was my teacher also. I mean he was “a close friend. I see. He was a professor, you said... Yes. Did you ever attend any seminars at the University of Mexico where he was lecturing?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 47. “Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: No, we uséd to have in our house. What were those seminars about? Marxism seminar. You never, though, attended any seminars at the - University of Mexico? No, he was a teacher and I used to take lessons with him. Existentialism, you know? (Spoke in Spanish.) Only two courses. Do you know if he ever held seminars at the Univer- sity of Mexico? He had to. By any chance do you remember if he would ever hold seminars on Saturdays? No. No, he did not or no, you do not remember? I don't know, I don't know. I've just got a few questions that if you'll bear with me. a During the three times that you met Oswald, did you ever hear him speak any language other than English? No. ow , In general, in the Consulates Office, was it com- mon for any other language other than Spanish to be spoken?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 48. Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: . When No. Was Russian ever commonly spoken. at the Consulate's Office?- 7 No. Do you remember anyone having spoken Russian in that office? No. At any time? No, I don't think. The only language they speak, it was English, and not everybody, just a few of them. Oswald came back the third time, did he tell you that he had a Russian visa or that the Russians had told him that there wouldn't be any problem?, That he was going to get the Russian visa, that there was no problem. ‘Did he tell you that he was going to get it, or that he already had it? He said I already got it. And he told you that he already had it as opposed to telling you that they had assured him that there was no problem? Yes. tae Could you tell me what Eusebiio Azcue thought about John Fitzgerald Kennedy, President Kennedy? What he thought? About the assassination?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 49. Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Lopez: No, about President Kennedy. I don't know, I don't remember. Did you ever discuss President Kennedy with Consul Azcue? | No, he was not here when Kennedy was killed. I'm asking not about the assassination but about Kennedy and his policies and things like that. No. | Did you ever hear Azcue discuss it with anyone else? ‘No. Did-- Have you seen Azcue since 1963? I don't remember if he came. His son came, and I don't remember if he came once to Mexico and he told me about the conversation that he had with Fidel Castro but I told you the other day what Fidel says and all of that and the way they write a protest to Mexico, to the Mexican Government, but I'm not really sure if he was his son, or if he was Azcue. Would you have seen AZcue at any tire during the last two years? No, I think that I never saw him again. His son, he came, I saw him, but, Azcue, I dont remember. Do you know if Eusebio Azcue is still in Cuba?
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 50. Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Lopez: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: The strike, I think so. I don't know. Did you ever discuss with Consul. Azcue the policies of United States towards Cuba? Or other Latin American countries? Perhaps we did, but I don't remember. Do you remember by chance what Azcue's views would have been on that? Did you ever discuss Azcue's views on changing that policy? What I remember is that during the Blockade (spoke to Lopez in Spanish.) The Student Economic Bloc of 1968. I'm sorry. The economic blockade. What I remember but I don't remember exactly if it was Azcue, the Commercial Attache, the Ambassador, but what I remember, it was all the people, they have expectations and they were how you say, trust- ing, that with Kennedy, the policy of the American Government was changing. They were hoping. . os Did you or anyone else at the Consulate ever offer Lee Harvey Oswald any aid of any kind? No. Did you ever know a person by the name of Guillermo Ruiz? No. -Just for the record, when you were arrested on that Saturday afternoon, what time that arrest was, approxi- mately? Seger
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 5l. Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: About three o'clock. Was the interrogation that was conducted at that time transcribed or taped? , m. It was written and when I sign I read it. Was it written out in a summary form or was it written out as you said it? They change, because once it was a man with a little machine, and another moment it was a man writing, typ- ing. But most of it was taken down literally, as you said it? And with the typewriter. Did you sign that which was taken down as you said it? Or did you: sign a summary of that? (Lopez translated.) Tirado: No, no, no. They were typing, all the time. They were typing all the time, even once, I don't know how many times, they told me, slow, because he was writing. But they didn't write exactly what I said sometimes because when I read all of that bunch of papers they say, come on, it's one o'clock, here, sign this. I said, no, I'm not going to sign this if I not read it. And sometimes I said this, I didn't say that. For instance, no? For instance, I'd remember, they say she was very, very glad when Kennedyy came. And I say no. I said I like it but I didn't say that I was
Silvia Tirado Interview Page 52. Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: Tirado: Hardway: very, very glad. Things like that, no? But almost, it was what I said. But they didn't want to change anything. Okay. Did you ever discuss the allegation chat they made that you had been Lee Harvey Oswald's lover with your husband? Well, I told him almost all what happened. He told me what they did to him and I told him what they did to me. Do you remember specifically talking about that spe- cific allegation with your husband? No, it was not important. Going back to when you recognized Oswald; ~ the man whose picture you had seen in the paper as the man who had been at the Embassy three times. Were you certain that the man in the papers was the same man, before you checked your records at the Archives? Yes. Immediately I saw the paper, I told him. This was the man that I want to check. | To your knowledge, was Horatio ever a member of the Communist Party? I think that he was, I don't. know if he was exactly member, but he was sympathizer andwe had a lot of Friends that they were members of the Communist Party. Uh, to your knowledge, was Horatio ever a member of any intelligence organization?
te fe Busepio Azcue Interview. ..oage AZCUER: Yes, ne did. In Mexico everybody wears a tie q due to tne weather. DODD: Would wearing a sweater in Mexico be a common ching? 4 ae eae .S ) AZCUE: Tt might 5e common, but most veople normally (D uf use a suit. But I remember that ne had a suit on. DODD: Then you're saying that he would not have been Gressed the way that ne's dressed in the picture. AZCUE: No, that's right. BLAKEY: Are there any olaces near your consul that ne could have had this snotograph taken? AZCUE: Yes, there's a place called Tocavaya four or five blocks from the embassy where he could nave taken the Dicture. Also, maybe the secretary could have pointed out to AZCUE Yes; aporoximately the size of this one in the photo in the application. We weren't very precise about these applications for they weren't, you know, extremely legal documents. y DODD: And that pnoto looks like the man that 0) p (0 ct O your office?
AZCUE: =I think so. There was no stenograpner there, VILLA: We have no recordings or written declarations fu Dd e) io ct ct ty. iy ct (i) & claration that - written reports about che Geclaration that Mr. Azcue made. It is possible chat it exists, Dut we have not located it as of yet. BLAKEY (to Mr. Azcue): Can you recall the oerson to whom the declaration was made? AZCUE: Yes. It was the person in charge of the ministry ct fer of, you know, the interior - foreign relations, foreign affairs. LOPEZ: What was nis name? AZCUE: Yes, it was Manuel Piniero, Comrade Manuel Dimero. BLAKEY: (Quote) In an interview, July 1967, with a British journalist, Homer Clark, Castro said that Oswald came to the ~ Cuban consulate twice, each time for approximately 15 minutes. , , "The first time I.was told he wanted to work for us. asked to explain, but he wouldn't. He would not go into details. The second time he said that he wanted to free Cuba from Imperialism Then he said something Like: “Someone ought to shoot that
m4 (C 19) o ty t 4 @) ka N (e) OG (()) io +3 (t (D at <i t- (D = ~ su Q 0H) Ne) be K @ n bk Qu (D 7} ct ~N vy re) v3 D ey, = om @ He O iD) = fu be en uy fu te ray fu a] Qu r J kK 109) he 0) (b xactly how it was reported to me): “Maybe I will try to do it." Would