10 1 12 14 5 16 17 18 19. 20 21 23 » 24 25 © H¥ 53080 Docld: 32248213 Page 96 33 >t Mr. ESpinosa. No. He told me that ne nad teen in touchy” with the CIA and he had been in touch with Artime, bit at the moment I was led to believe it was the CIA who had arranged the meeting, and I would have been surprised if that was so, Mr. Hornbeck. I want to be very specific as to the information that you are getting from Sotreno and from any other source, Mr. Espinosa... Yes. Mr. Hornbeck. So. just getting back to what ne told you, ‘Robreno says to you, on the one hand Cubela has been in touch with Williamson from the CIA, and he also tells you Cubela has met with Artime, and you are not sure whether Rubrend tells you that Cubela and Artime met in Madrid. Is ‘that ao “correct summary? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. He told me that they met, but I can't remember whether it was in Madrid or another place. Mr. Hornbeck. Was there anything about the use of a rifle and a silencer by Cubela that you would have found Strange in an assassination plot to kill Castro? Mr. Espinosa. I would have found it very strange | because .Castro is a touch guy and you can never hunt him with: a “rifle in the sense you never know where he is going to. be or. “whieh street he is going to be passing tnrough. So lI would: think it is very, very unlixely, and especially Rolando knows. this very well, better than I do, that this is a kind of a guy. ‘that J ALDERSON REPORTING: COMPANY, INC,. nana ARE ala! RenAR Erne AE AInIAS LALO UIAIEF AAI ner aAArA | “ana RRA QVAR
10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 24 25 HW -53080° Docld: 32248213: Page 97° - is practically impossible to hunt with a rifle. Mr. cornbeck. would the special relationshie you ~~ discussed vefore between Castro and Cudela have presented: some special opportunities for Cubela? | Mr. ESpinosa. Incredidly special opportunities; exceptionally special. Mr. mornbeck. Can you give us something on that? Mr. Espinosa. Let us say one day Rolando could find out that Castro was in his home outside Havana, and he could have gone over there at a day or night, and even at 5:00 o'clock in the morning and tell the guards "I am going to see Castro, ' and they would have let. him in without objection. | ee | ander Mr. Blackmer. You were friends with Carlos Hermeres?- — Mr. Espinosa. Yes. oo, hier Mr. Blacxmer. You went on two raids with teem that.were ys ar ‘aborted and you trained with him in Panama and Guatemala... Did- you recognize that he haa a special relationship with Manuel Artime? _ “ Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. Do you know the extent of that? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. You personally disliked Artime; is ‘that. correct? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. Did you personally know him? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,.INC, 9 >
10 1 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 24 © 25 HW 53080 Docld: 32248213 Page 96 m™ un .o) 2 1) (e) 10) iv) vir. Hot very much, I know him. I trained hin, in away. ; Mr. Slackmwer. You were training in Guatemale, I. understand? Mr. Espinosa. And in Panama. And he came to Panama, and I was assigned to give him the dewolition training, a crash course in demolition. So I was in touch with him for a few days, closely, and I didn't think much of nim, really. And do you want me to tell you the story abdout that? Mr. Blackmer. I don't. think tnat.that will be necessary. What was the feeling generally among the exiles ‘that you had contact with about Artime and his position with the CIA? Mr. Espinosa. It was about the same. Mr.-Blackmer. what is that? Mr. Espinosa. They disliked the idea that 2 puppet-was being imposed on them. | | Mr, Blackmer. Did you ever discuss this with Carlos, his relationship with Artime? Mr. ESpinosa. Ho, not really. Mr. Blackmer. Did you ever talk to Robreno about your dislike or distrust for Artime? | Mr. Espinosa. Ho. Mr. Blacxmer. Did you distrust Artime also? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blacknier. Do you think he was personally. motivated ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 1
10 “11 12 @ ; 13 oo 4 15 “16 17 18 “19 20 21 22 23 25 NW‘ 53080. Docld:32248213 Page 99 anc not patriotically motivated? mir. cSeinosa. Yes, | Nr. Blackwer. Did you trust Robreno? Mr. Espinosa. when it comes to something I nad to-do with Cubela, I would trust hin. Mr. Blackmer. You think he would not have told Fidel about Rolando's working with the CIA? tr. Espinosa. He was very loyal to Cubela. mr. Blackmer. Where were his loyalties with respect to Mr. Espinosa. No, he is not by nature a very loyal person or very legal person, but Cubela was Like his hero. Mr. Blackmer. Are you familiar with an individual named Orlando Bosch? .Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackner. Dr. Grlando Bosch? Mr. Espinosa. lio. I have heard about him. Mr. Blackmer, Save you had any contact with him at ali? Mr. Espinosa. No. “Mr. Glackmer. Had you heard that ve. “been anything Operating in this country during 196 about any of nis activities in this country at that. time?’ Mr. ESpinosa. Ho. . Mr. Blackmer. Did you know an individual named. bed, Lobo in Havana? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, leraral Wh.eTpect co AF -pconoTcoe: OV ine imine LALA CuUINATAAL A Re dsanda. isan cra anae
10 11 12 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20. 21 23 24 25 HW.53080 Docld:32248213. Page 100 -. ne Mr. ESpinosa. Yes. Mr. Slackmer. wnat is tne extent of your knowledge oF aia? - Mr. Espinosa. A friend of mine was married to a niece of nis, and I have seen the guy tnree or four times in ay life. Mr. Blackter. was he active in any of. th groups in Havana? Mr. Espinosa. Not that I «know of. Mr. tlackmer. Do you know if he was active in any of the Cuban exile movements? Mr. Espinosa. I heard thatthe guy is giving money, but personally I was never involved with anything that he. contributed to or anything like that. ae ; pe ms, | Mr. Blackmer. Have you ever heard of an individuadl:named Ricardo NavarQRi@ior ales? Mr. Espinosa. It sounds familiar, but I’ can't see. the face. Sut it sounds familiar. Mr. Blackmer. Do you know what you would have heard him in connection with? Mr. Espinosa. lo. Have you got a picture of him or anything? Mr. Blackmer. No- af CoP a ; he pad bea i ean’: would he have been a Aired killergang assassin? . on | ? Mr. Espinosa. when you mentioned the name, it is not so. + much Morales, but the first name, it rings 4 bell,: but I cart ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. A RAR ROR -AARDA IOAN RRA DQAR
. ra (88 1 see it. 2 wr. Blackmer. Could he have been active with you in the 3 anti-Eatista movement with you or with soweone. else? 4 . Mr. Espinosa. I don’t know. I can't place: the guy, and 5 so if I can't place the guy == 6 ' vir. Glackmer.. flow about Cavid Morales? 7 Mr. ESpinosa. No. 8 vir. Blackmer. Monkey Morales? ) Mr. Espinosa. No. 10 Mr. Slacker. Have you ever heard of’an individual named 11 Antonio Vaessage? Vecrana , a 12 Mr. Espinosa. No. O . Sag Mr. Blackmer. Are you familiar with Alhpe 66? . 14 Mr. Espinosa. I nave heard of it. : 15 tir. Blackmer. Do you nave any information about, one of 16. the founders or leaders? 17 rir. ESpinosa., No. 1B. Mr. Blackmer. Do you know an individual or have you JW cheard of an individual named Morris: Bishop?: 20 Mr. Espinosa. No. 24 Mr. .Blackmer. When you were in Cuba in 1957, '58, and (-22.'59, have you had any contact with Santiago, Cuba, or did you ' 23. ever go there? @ ce 24 Mr. Espinosa. No. . 25 Mr. Blackmer. Are you familiar with a corporation:named ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, © HW 53080 : Docla: 32248213. Page 404. STREET. GA). REBNATERS ArH RING AIA GHIA TAN: Ait, sninda “1991 README
10 11 12 oO * 14 15 16 17 18 4g . 20 24 23 5 © HW 53080 Doclda:32248213.| Page. 102 Mauoay Mining Company? Meo. Espinosa. ho. a Mr. Blackmer. OGnee again, you did meet Frank . : : ia antd in CUrels a td O Miami. Were you aware of Frank Sturgis. at. all. in, Havana right around. the time Castro took over? Mr. Espinosa. io. Mr. Blackmer. You mentioned that you are familiar with Pedro Diaz Lanz. Did you know in 1956 he Was appointed head of the Cuban Air Force by Castro? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. And at the same time and somewhat’ later, he appointed Sturgis as a director of security for-the-air foree? Mr. Espinosa. I didn't know that. Mr. Blackmer. -You were not aware Of that at all? Mr. ESpinosa. Not until just right now. Mr. Blackmer. Sturgis also had a relationship: with SOUe of the casinos in Havana and was frequently seén at these casinos. Do you recall, if you think back, whether you night have seen him? Mr. ESpinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. .Not whatsoever? Mr. cspinosa. Ho. Mr. Elackmer. when you were going on these various raids: from Keys, as we discussed, three or four raids after tne Bay. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, AAD J+ - erpcenr Sis ‘ReDAATERS ai itt INIA” APA QHIMATAN. n o 9nnta - (909). BRA. 92aK:
1 of Pigs, Gidc you ever come in contact with an individua al named 2 wallace Snanley? 3 Mr. Espinosa. No. 4 Mr. Blackmer. He would nave been with the government , 5 eitner Immigration or Customs? 6 Mr. Espinosa. No. 7 Mr. Blackmer. Did you ever come in contact With any 8 Americans with Customs or Immigration and Naturalization? SS) Mr. Espinosa. No. 10 Mr. Blackmer. When you were in the June 15th cetention 11 from the attempted raid, I understand they seized a 1957 12 Thunderbird belonging to your aunt. | oO ~ 13 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 14 Mr. Blackmer. And you took legal action against Customs. 15 , ir. Espinosa. No, they got the car two years later. 16 Mr. Slackmer. You did not go through an attorney?’ 17 Mr. Espinosa. Maybe they did, I don't know. 18 Mr. Glackmer. You don't recall that? 19 Mr. Espinosa. No, I didn't 200 Mr. Blackmer. When we were talking the other day about 21 the two raids, we were talking about the June 15th. raid, “22 whether it was just an aborted attempt, but you are. dealing 23 with a twin engine Beachcraft airplane where you were going ivze ; oo, @ _ 24 make these homemade bombs and you were using dynamite. .' 25 Mr. Espinosa. No, we were using -- ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, “AW. 53080 Docid: 32248213. ‘Page BRET STREET; S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING: WASHINGTON, pe €:-20024 (202) 554-2345 -°
HW 53080° 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19° 20 21 23 24 “25 ‘DocId:32248213 Page 104 SAA Teh OTOCET CAs mr. Blackmer. “wr. ESpinosa. Mr. olackmer. wings of “operation? tir. Espinosa. tr. EBlackmer. never Mr. Espinosa. was Mike, and he gave us a means to do it and he didn't get meant it to be PHT? HO. we 1 You nad gust run special wires. out on tne plane ana you were going over there, and didn't _that seem kind of a gumshoe operation, rather’ I agree with you. bid you feel that someone.planning it inade? Because the person who was sponsoring it the right bombs and we didn't get the right things; hé is: an expert in exploSives or in planes. Mr. Blackmer. 4 Mr. Espinose. Mr. Elackmer. engine Beacncraft? Mr. Espinosa. you did? Mr. Espinosa. Blackmer. Espinosa. Blackmer. But you are? Yes. And you couldn't do any better” well, we didn't ask for any better were afraid to ask for a B+25 or B-26. Blackmer. On the first one, but on the second one Yes, because he You are talking Yes, it was a lot of money. QGuite a lot more for the 8-25 than the ALOERSON REPORTING COMPANY,.INC, 2 0.0 were using shoddy warmed up to the idea. about the “RP EDARTERR AINIAING WIAGHINGTOAN TEC) 2nNDA' (9091 BRA.9345..
. 10 11 12 Beacneraft. Mr. Espinosa. You nave to buy it, and it.is not very easy to rent a 8-25, especially the ones with the rignt bombs and the whole thing. Mr. Blackmer. The plane you were going to take ce} at Ponchartrain, to your knowledge, was ¢ fully, ovorsesonatth Mr. -bomb bay doors? Espinosa. I insisted that the bomb racks were in there or I wasn't going to do anything with it. Mr. Blackmer. To your knowledge, you do not. know: where this plane was going to be obtained or who was going ‘to: get. it? oO * heard they were flying the plane from Canada, and I heard: that. ~ 44. 45 16 17 18 “49 20 7 ai <) 25 HW253080 DocId: 32248213 ~ Page’ Mr. Espinosa. No. .I heard things about Arizona: and L vo the plane was going to be flown from South America, and I neard all of this. It want to Mr. Mr. Mr. to Old Mike, "I con't want to hear anything; we don't Know, we don't want to know." Blacxmer. You just told Mike to get the. plane? Espinosa. Yes. Blackmer. Do you assume he went through Sam Benton get the plane? Espinosa. Yes. Blackmer. That was the first time? . Espinosa. And I wouldn't be surprised if he went ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, rar LOS 7th STREET. S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 “(202)'554-2346 °
10 1 12 — 4 15 16 17 18 19 20 24 23. » 25 O HW 53080 \.Doeld: 32248213 - Th o ' ino else was aside from the group participating, Benton and NeLaney and’ yourself? Mr. Espinosa. well, I imagine their wives friends and everybody in the operation. Mr. Blackmer. Specifically, any Americans? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Any members of the CIA? Mr. Espinosa. No, for Christ's sake, of dourse: nots. Mr. Blackmer. But no other Americans other’ than’ Benton? Mr. Espinosa. I wouldn't say Benton. I knew Mike, and if he. used Benton, I. don't know. Mr. Blackmer. June at the home Did you have a meeting in of Mike McLaney and yourself and say you were discussing this Operation, and was there someone present? Mr. Espinosa. Miguel Alvarez. mr. Glackmer. . Was Senton present? “ur. Espinosa. I can't remember. I am not trying “to -- Mr. Blackmer. Our files indicate that ‘Benton \ ee ive ‘the Story that he was just there to take pictures and he was there for publicit and after the raid was suecessful you were. going to play up the publicity aspect of it. Was there any”. truth fasta to Yat story ¢ ET Maes Mr, Espinosa. The first raid or the second one?:’ ALDERSON, REPORTING COMPANY, "INC, Rage. LAG rt STREET, S.W:: REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C, “20024 (202)3554- 2345
10 1 12 “44 15 16 17 18 19. 20 21 22 23 © 24 25 O “Customs at 13: the Beachcraft was? Nr. Elackmer. The first one, mr. EScinosa. I was never aware th any pictures. Mr. Blacknier. Wonat was his role? Mr. Espinosa. As far as I know, th “rent the plane. Mr. Blackmer. That is all? Mr. Espinosa. Tnat is all. Mr. Blackmer. And when you were de the site, you to meet? Mr. mean over there, Espinosa. You I was coming from m Thunderbird, With the napalm, or wnateve getting there to be with the rest of the over. Mr. Blackmer. You were to meet the Mr. ESpinosa.. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. And who was bringing Mr. Espinosa. Alpizar. Mr. Blackmer. Do you know a person You never heard of William Pawley? Mr. Espinosa. An American? Mr. Blackmer. Living in MNiamai, an from world War II and worked with the Fl ALDERSON: REPORTING COMPANY, ey were going to take e first time” he was tO tained by the FBI where were you coming from and-how were in that strip where y aunt's house in that. r it was, and-t was guys and*to take. plane? the pla ne? .. named William Pawley? dhe is a@warhero | ying Tigers: and: é INC! Docld: 32248213 . Page. LAF jh: STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 20024 (202) 884-2345
'@ ‘ 1 General Chenault, and also nad a business in Cuba, head of a Le) 103) bus system in Cube and then ir Milaul, and he wes very active 3 in the anti-Castro activities. 4 Mr. Espinosa. wo. 5. Mr. Blackmer. You never heard of him? 6 Mr. Espinosa. io. 7 Mr. Blackmer. i have no further guestions. 8 Mr. Hornbeck. You mentioned the casino industry in 9 Havana pre-1959. I believe that you frequented some “casinos 10 and that is how you met Mike MeLaney; is that. correct? 11 . Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 12 | Mr. Hornbeck. In.addition to the Nacional, -did you e) oo BB frequent any of the other casinos? . : . 14 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. I used to go out in the. evening; all W.of the guys. We would go to one and then to another“one; 16 especially because of the showgirls, really. 17 mr. Hornbeck. During the tine that you were going to the 18 Various casinos, .did you come to know some of the-edsino 19 owners? | “20 ‘Mr. Espinosa. I was pointed out, like i told you the 21 other day, for example, George Raft was there, and-then I saw 22 one guy, I think it was White or Snow. .23 Mr. Hornoveck. Larry Snow? e 24 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 25 Mr. Hornbeck. Cid you know Dino Cellini? O _ ALDERSON. REPORTING COMPANY, INC, “NW 53080 - DocId: 32248213. Page LAB yin. STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024. (202) 554-2345
@ Jd mr. Espinosa. No, 2 mr. Hornbeck. Eddie Cellini? «@ ; 3 Mr. Espinosa. lo. 4 Mr. Hornbeck. Charles Tourine? 5 Mr. Espinosa. No. 6 Mr, Hornbeck. Martin Fox gamora, at the Trovicana? 7 Mr. Espinosa. This is one chat I never went to. I was 8 there once, but because it. was so far away I never went over 9 there, 10 Mr. iiornbeck, Santos Trafficante? 11 Mr. Espinosa. I have heard of him, but I néver-met him, 2 Mr. Hornbeck. Was he ever pointed out to you? oe - 13 Mr. ESpinosa. Wo, oO Us 14 Mr. Hornbeck. Did you ever hear of Santos Trafficante 15 being involved in Miami with any anti-Castro activities? 16 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I have heard about that. 17 — Mr. Hornbeck. Would you tell us what you heard, first of 18 all, and then perhaps tell us the source of your “information? ye 19 Mr. ESpinosa. Okay. What I have heard is that-He was 20 helping and trying to do something to help some people like. ~ 21 Mike helped me to overthrow Castro. cen “22 Mr. Hornbeck. When you say helping Mike -- .23 Mr. Espinosa. No. , eo 24 Mr. Hornbeck. Do you know of a relationship between oy (25 Trafficante and Mike McLaney? ALDERSON REPORTING: COMPANY, ING; Hw 53080. ‘Dacia: 32248213 Page’ OPH STREET,-S.W: REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON; D. Cc. 20024. (202)'554-2345 _
O | 53080 10 11 12 13 44 15 16 17 18 - 20 21 23 24 25 ' DocId: 32248213 Page 110 Mr. Hornbeck. Did Mike MNeLaney ever tention Trafficante Mr. Espinosa. Wo. Mr. Hornbeck. Did he ever mention ahy other American gambling interests wno were doing the same kind of activity as he was doing witn you? Mr. ESpinosa. ho. Mr. Hornbeck. Other people who you may have geen in Cuba; Jake Lansky? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Hornbeck. At the Riviera? Mr. Espinosa. I don't know his first name. And 1° remember Lansky, and I remember the name. One = tae Se Riviera someone saying "That is Meyer Lansky. Mr. Hornbeck. Meyer Lansky? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. nornoeck. Bid you.ever meet an individual in: Cuba by the name of John Martino? Martino was later arrested by tne Castro government and spent several years in jail, and I believe he was released sometime around 1961. Mr. Espinosa. Who. Mr. Hornbeck. Guiseppe DeGeorge? Mr. Espinosa. No... | Mr. Hornbeck. Reuben Miro? _ALDERSON: REPORTING COMPANY, INC, RAR SAE REET OVAL  seonerene QIANG WASHINGTON. D.C. 20624. (202) 554-2345
10 11 12 13 ‘14 16 “16 17 18 19 20 21 a “2 © - 24 ~ 25 O mr. Espinosa. ilo. mr, Hornbecx, Mercar Sondo? Mr. Espinosa. We all know him. Mr. mornbeck. You personally oe acquainted with him? mir. Espinosa. I met him a number of times. Mr. Hornbeck. Norman Rothman? Mr. ESpinosa. I told John that I saw him a couple of times in Cuba, and I saw him a couple-of times in Miami. Mr. tlornbecx. Were you friendly with him personally? Mr. Espinosa. No, I was friendly with his son, with Cappy. Rothman. | : Mr. Hornbeck. What relationship did you have with Cappy Rothman? Mr. Espinosa. Just the relationship of a man who goes to the ber and has a few crinks, and souetines we dated'girls~ together or something. Mr. Hornbeck. Did you have conversations with his father Mr. Espinosa. No, never. Mr. Hornbeck. Did you ever see Cappy Rothman in Miami? Mr. Espinosa. In Miami; I always saw him in Miami. Mr. Hornbeck. Where did you see him? = ty Spinosa. At the bar that he used to have. -Mre Hornbeck. That was the Biltmore? Mr. Espinosa. It was some hotel in Miami-Beach.~” ALDERSON, REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 53080 ; DocId: 32248213 Page. 1d 3 7th STREET, S.W.. REPORTERS: BUILDING, WASHINGTON; D: c: 20024 (202)'554:2345 o,
10 11 12 13 “14 15 16 17 18 19 20 4 x 25 Mr. rernandos Mr. Mr. what it sh Mr. that sone like that Savaradra wir. HW 53080 DocId:32248213 Page nornbeck. Could that heve been the Biltmore Terrace? Espinosa. Yes, wornbeck. was that the same hotel that Roberto Miranda was associated witn? ESpinosa. That I Gon't know. Hornbeck. When you saw Cappy Rothman in Miami, did discuss with him any anti-Castro activities? Espinosa. Never, Hornbeck, Did he ever solicit your aid in-any. king adventure? ESpinosa. Never. Hornbeck. Did he ever discuss the Castro regime; as cost nis father and what it had cost him? Espinosa. Maybe he might have made a comment, ‘aoout time or other. But it was not any depth’ or anything” Hornbeck. Did you ever near of or did you"ever meet ain Manarino, from Pittsburgh? mo ESpinosa. ho. . Hornbeck. Did you ever hear their names mentioned. by Norman Rothman? Espinosa. Ho. dorabeck. Did you ever meet in Cuba or Miami: Henry. and he nad a nickname of "Kiki"? ZESpinosa. io. _ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, ING, LAP re STREET ‘Sw. REPORTERS -REHI DING -\WaA QuINaTtaAn Tir 9AdAA lana een anne
O -AW 53086 10. . 71 12 14 15) 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 “25 100. ‘ir. Hornbeck, co b- raat &Y yOu KNOW @ Raphael Gesexr ¥ Mr. Espinosa. re © c ie) 7) aX ra) Q a o 5 cd 4 ct oO te ‘an << ° c cr o my o) “ Sounded familiar. Mr. Hornbeck. He had a nickname of Macho, Measc-heo, Nr. Espinosa. “0, I remember that much I never did. mr. Hornbeck, Did you ever meet any individual in the United States or in Europe by the namie of Macho? Mr. Espinosa. lio. hr. Hornbeck, During the time that you were in Paris, Gid you ever run. across. any ex-members of the 04s? Nr. Espinosa. No. I didn't even know the OAS. existed. You are talking about. the French organization? Mr. Hornbeck. Yes. Mr. Espinosa. No, I never did. p , Mr. Hornbeck, Again, while you were in Europe, cid ‘you meet any Soldier of Fortune people who were fighting or going to fight in-the Congo? hr. Espinosa. Ho. The only people I nave known go the Congo with the Cubans that went with the Cla. Mr. Hornbeck. Were those people that you'knew in Cuba? Mr. Espinosa. That I knew in Cuba or that I knew from the invasion or from revolutionary activities in Miami. The ey are the only people that have oeen in the Congo that I ever’ met. ‘Mr. Hornbeck. Was Tedcy Whitehouse one of those. people... ne ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, | Docld: 32248213. ‘Page. 43g QTRERT cw. ‘ReanbrEeDe DN nia vara ite ae '
1 mr. Hornbeck. Can you tell us whether that was in Cuba 3 —omr. Espinosa. No, it was in the United States. I went 4 with Cubela, and I know Major Paez. I went to the 5 Fountainbdleau and we stayed in one hotel owned by Jose Aleman, 6 and he had a nickname, and I only met hii -once. 7 - Mr. Hornbeck, Can you tell us approximately what year 8 that was? 9 Mr. Espinosa. It was 1959, Maren of 1959, | 10 Mr. dornbeck. were you traveling during the 1959. year 11 between Cuba and the United States? we 12 | Mr. Espinosa; Yes. I went to Miami then and I went to ‘13 Miami another time, and two times or three times. before I 14 finally took off. 15 Mr. Hornbeck. Are these all pleasure trips or was ‘there ~ 16 some business? “17 Mr. Espinosa. Just pleasure trips. 18 Mr. Hornbeck. Did you know Orlando Bosen? 19 . Mr. Espinosa. NO. 20 Mr. tlornbeck. Have you ever heard of Orlando Bosch?” ae Mr. Espinosa. Is he related to Pippin Bosen?’ ' 22 Mr. Hornbeck. Pippin Bosch was president of Bicardi _ 23° Rums. en Bh “ur. Espinosa. There was a Bosch when the whole thing | ' 25. started with the invasion and the training of the Cubans, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, aw 53080 Docka:32248213- Page 200 h STREET; S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D:C..20024" (302)'$84.5348
1 although he was under the auspices of the CIA, he was Supposed 2 to be fighting for a eroup Called “The Front,” and Ties Front. were five different people, representing five different w 4 Organizations, who were united in order to get enough. people 5 to do it, and Bosch was one of them. 6 Mr. Hornbeck. This. is the Pippin Bosch? 7 Mr. Espinosa. He-is not the one that you are talking 8. about. g Mr. Hornbeck, Luis Pasado? 100. Mr. Espinosa. Wo. 1 Mr. Hornbeck. Luis Balbuena? - 12 Mr. Espinosa. No. O AB Mr. Hornbeck. Dominick Bartone? ag Mr. Espinosa. Wo. 15 Mr. Hornbeck. The record will reflect that the witness: 16: is shaking his head negatively for all of this. 17 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 18 Mr. Hornbeck. Raphael Garcia Songo? 19 Mr. Espinosa. yes. 20 Mr. Hornbeck. How did you know him and when did-you 2 first meet nim and what was your relationship? (22 Mr. ESpinosa. There are two brothers; that is Raphael ° 23 and there is Jorta. a O ke 24 ‘I used to have a girl friend when I was very young in 25 Cuba and her cousin was the girl friend of Jorta. Jorta hada. ave _ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC... “NW 53080 DocId:32248213 Page. LAG 7th STREET? S.W: -REPORTERS BUILDING. WASHINGTON? 0 @ 90n04 [dno eaab2K
TON. ‘@) 1 very bad German sh epnerd he wanted to get rid of, end he gave 2 it to me, and I Salc, “Ckay, I will take it." And I had this cog for any Jeers, and that was the extent of my friendship wo 4 with him. Through hin met nis brother, Raphael. who used to 5 be a lawyer in cure, wk Sscdee L (fn Ue ee | 6 ‘Mr. Hornbeck. Is this just comnon knowledge, or did you... 7 know this personally? 8 . Mr. Espinosa. It was common knowledge. I think.he is 9 doing some time in jail right now. 10 Mr. Hornbeck. ie is doing time in Spain now? = Wo Mr. Espinosa. Yes, for passing false dollars. 12 Mr. Hornbeck. Counterfeit money? 13 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. oF ; 14 Mr. Hornbeck. When did you hear that information? 15 Mr. Espinosa. Many years ago; five.or six years ago, or 16 maybe more. | | ‘17 ir. Hornbeck. Can you tell us how you heard the. 18 information and any details you may have heard? - 19 ~tir. Espinosa. I-can't recall who told me the story. And 20 this was at the beginning when I went to Spain. “21 Nr. Hornbeck. Which would have been approximately when? 22 Mr. Espinosa. That would be 1972. | “+23 Mr. Hornbeck. And you heard the story then? @ ecwaeer ; mr. Espinosa. That Raphael had been there and th tat ne’ : “25 had ten or fifteen thousand dollars in one hundred do gliar Do ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC,’ . mW 53080 Doota: 32248213-: “Page - wo7th STREET, S.W. “REPORTERS BUILDING; WASHINGTON, ‘D.C. 20024 (202) 564-2345
10 1 12 13 A 14 415 | 16 17 18 19 20 5 notes and he was passing them for two or three cays and. then they got him and then A Bot 3 bunch of vears in geil. mr. wornabeck. Did you near whether or not Tr efficante had ever tried to help him in Spain? wir. Espinosa. No, but I heard that he had something to. co with Trafficante. i “Mr. Hornbeck. That the counterfeiting had something to do with Trafficante? vir. Espinosa. This is what I heard, but you k now: “how people talk to me. It is not very. cifficult to fig gure out: if Raphael was Trafficante" S lawyer in Cuba; now he gets caught in Spain with counterfeit money. There is a likely possibility of the money came from the Buy and this is what people are Speculating about, or told me at the Eiine Mr. Hornbeck. «nen Trafficante was in “Cuba, he was arrested sometine in mid-1959, and did you ever hear that? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. iornbeck. Did you ever near that Mike MeLéney was arrested in Cuba? | . Mr. ESpinosa. Yes. Mr. Hornbeck. Can you tell us what you heard and from weat source? Mr. ESpinosa. All I know is that he was living in the country and he was going back to Miami and he was living and they took nim and they put him in jail. for two or three days... ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, ine, HW 53080 2 Docld: 32248213 - Page. (HSI: STREET, S.W. -REPORTERS ‘BUILDING, "WASHINGTON: D: fom “30028 (2091. 854-9245
a 10 11 “42 - 43 4g 15 16: 17 “18 19 20 21 23 e | . - | : - 4 Mr. Mr, with you? Mr. things don't really Mr. Hornbeck. aspinosa. Hornbeck, ESpinosa. Hornbeck Espinosa. Hornbeck. ESpinosa. He never told bid “ike ever contact you? HO. vid he-ever discuss how ne gOt arreste ne NO. 7 you? a I am sure that I have heard the story, but register after some years. Did you know Marcos Perez Jiminez? I never met the guy, although qo Know. he. used to live very close to. Mike's house in Pine. Tree Drive ‘in Miami Bea at mr. Mr. - ery, ‘involved ch; two or three houses away from Mike Hornbeck. Espinosa. Hornbeck, Did you ever have a chance to meet him? No. Did you ever hear whether or not. he was in any kind of Cuban activities? Espinosa, Hornveck. Espinosa, Hornbeck, Espinosa. Hornbeck. Espinosa. Hornbeck. 25 circumstances? : uw 53080. Decta: 32248213 / Page. 24%, STREET,S.W: REPORTERS BUILDING. WASHINGTON. N 6 2nn2d: Yon) sd. oaaK I never have, Jorge Soto Martinez? NO, EVaristo Garcia Vidal? ow do you know him; under ALOERSON: ‘REPORTING: ‘COMPANY, ING,. what.