Stout interview ‘Page two communications officer (Lt. Cherrie) and two staff or technical sergeants (doesn't recall their names). These three men had "secret" clearance and were the only ones allowed to enter the decoding van. Everyone learned this early on, because this was a most important guard post, and they all stood many such watches. Buck sergeants (three stripes) were crew chiefs, and corporals were assistant crew chiefs. They. neither enjoyed access to the decoding van nor were corporals allowed to move into the few rooms near the center of the barracks. These rooms were exclusively reserved for buck sergeants and above... It was this framework which facilitated the strict caste system which pre- vailed. Insofar as Stout was concerned, LHO was run-of-the- mill radar man, which wasn't bad. If there was a "ding bat" (inept operator) it soon became common knowledge and LHO wasn't one. In relatively small units, such as MACS-1, (Stout estimates 4 radar crews of 10 men each and a total compliment of 250 men) common knowledge was a chief characteristic; if one man knew something, soon all did. - Conversely, there was little, if any, knowledge or interest inthe "experimental plane." All the operators were aware it flew "high and far - beyond our scopes," but it never registered with the radar crews anyway, SO no one paid any attention to it. | Stout explained further that all military aircraft did check in and out with them except that one. They didn't even know MW 55923 Doeld: 32265131 Page 4 °
Stout interview ~ - sO Page three how many there were. All. he recalls was they only used one at a time. Security was tight. You couldn't get near the planes. No cameras allowed in that area. They didn't know any of the pilots. Someone may have said it was an "experimental" or "weather" plane, he didn't pay. that much attention to it at the time. The only recol- lection he has was it differs in two respects from the conventional” aircraft in that the wings were so relatively long, there seemed to be an extra.set of wheels under them and it needed much less run- way to take off. | Stout added here that the basic "legend" portrayed the U-2 as using "Racecar" as its call and checking in and out with them, neither of which is remotely true. Stout said there's no way he wouldn't of been aware of this and he never heard of either situation. Liberty was chiefly "Cinderella" form (required to . return by midnight) which effectively limited such free time to "Yamato", near the east camp of Atsugi, or "Sagmi Oaksta", near main Side. Weekend liberties permitted a wider scope which included Toyko some 4-5 hours by train. So the normal pastimes were those bars in Yamato. It was less expensive in terms of time (Yamato was a 20-minute bus ride) and money (Toyko was the location of the affluent bars and other places of entertainment). | Asked about the location of. the "Queen Bee", he asked me, "Which one?" He advised "Queen Bee" and many such names, were popular in nearly all the liberty towns. Those people just seemed to like the title "Queen" and used it in many enterprises in many areas. Most of the MACS-1 men frequented the "Queen Bee" in MW 55923 Doold:32265131 Page 5
Stout interview Page four Yamato. He's seen Lee Harvey Oswald in there as well as most of MAC-1. He sometimes went with Lee Harvey Oswald and sometimes just saw him in there. He would usually be with the same girl. He never actually met her, but that's not usually the case, anyway. He advised that in order to really understand that environment, I must realize it's nothing like society is here in the States. The girls work in bars and when you visited a place for the first time, you got paired off with a bar girl. All subsequent trips provided you with that same girl. The joke around the barracks during those days was that when a Marine - any Marine - visited a particular bar several times, he was in love. So, yes, he saw LHO (like the rest of MACS-1) in the "Queen Bee" with the same girl, but it was an entirely different connotation than the same situation would have been in the States. In the first place, that was rule, not exception and secondly, why would LHO or anyone else, spend four: to five hours for a more ex- pensive train ride to go to the Toyko "Queen Bee" which would cost him a month's: pay in one trip? As far as LHO's money was concerned, he was under the impression he had less, not more, than the rest. Eighty some dollars a month was the norm, but LHO had an allotment sent to his mother ("at least that's what he said") which caused a deduction. Nor did his lifestyle indicate anyting different. At first he didn't drink at all, then he tried beer and booze, but beer was his drink when he drank at all. Didn't play cards at first, later might of MW 55923 Dooeld: 32265131 Page 6
tan Stout interview 0 Page five played for "pay day stakes" - meaning I'll pay you later. As far as women went, Yamato girls were the cheapest and he didn't see LHO with them anywhere else. And this was only a later development. He didn't seek any female companionship when he first arrived, and this soon lead to the suspicion (more like indictment in that at- mosphere) that he still. maintained his virginity. In any event, the concensus was LHO was anything but affluent. . Again he pointed out the implied inaccuracies of "Legend." It states that LHO had a regular girl friend in the "Queen Bee" suggesting he had a serious romance going and also had plenty of money due to the high prices in the "Queen Bee." Although Stout went on liberty with LHO many times, "Cinderella", as well as weekends, he never met any civilians who were acquainted with LHO. Knew nothing of a Japanese woman house- keeper for a Naval officer in Toyko, nor of young Japanese couple cooking for LHO. But, he does recall when liberties ceased for LHO. One day LHO shot himself accidentally with his own Derringer. It was just a 22 calibre and Stout doesn't know to this day where he got it, because one thing the Japanese police were strict about was firearms. Cited an incident when "Corporal Crawley," who was on the radar team, really got jammed up trying to sell aG.I. 45 to a civilian who turned out to be undercover P.D. Anyway, they took LHO to sick bay after treating him in the cubicle for a superficial arm wound. Doesn't think that anyone was with LHO when the shooting took place, but Crawley was nearby. He slept in that cubicle too. NW 55923 Docld: 32265131 Page 7
Stout interview page six Stout assumed, as did the rest, LHO was attempting to forego the maneuvers in the Philippines which was timed to coincide with local unrest. It seems the first "accidental" version didn't hold up. He also was privy to the "Buck Sergeant" problem LHO was concerned with. Again local mores permit "your regular girl" to have other “regular boy friends" so long as the individual schedules don't conflict... It seems this buck sergeant (no name) was paying her rent ‘and that bucks have all night liberty. She, like the rest, was utilizing some of her free time before midnight with LHO and whoever. Stout says they used to refer to the more resourceful ones as "business women.” In any event, Stout still cannot dismiss the "accidential" version, because just remaining there wouldn't solve that problem. | | Nevertheless, LHO made the trip to Corregidor and was on mess duty the entire ten weeks they stayed there. Stout re- calls John Wayne flying over in a helicopter asking for permission to land. In no time, the Marines crowded around him and they took him to the NCO club (even in Corregidor at that time, they had an NCO (non commissioned officers') Club which precluded privates and privates first class. Anyway, the much talked about Wayne photos were taken in the mess hall and that's where LHO appeared in the background. “Stout advises the party proceeded to the NCO Club where Wayne got "smoked up." He only heard this. He adds they weren't allowed near the place. He remembers Marty Schrand - "a tall, skinny kid." NW 55923 Docid:32265131 Page &
Stout interview page seven After Corregidor, they were at Cubic Point and Marty was on (guard) post. It was about 2000 hours and Marty's post concerned a couple of rows of trucks - 80, maybe 90. That location was right on the water's edge of Cubic Bay. Responding to the report of a discharged shotgun, others found Marty lying in a pool of blood on the concrete section of this parking area. His weapon, a riot-type shotgun, was several feet away on the ground and Marty had sustained a fatal wound under his arm. At the time, Stout was scheduled to relieve Shrand at midnight. They came and got Stout right after 2000 hours and he he took his post early. He wasn't told any details, but saw the co- agulated blood with candy in the center. He figured Marty had still been carrying this in his shirt pocket from chow today (he explained this had been New Year's Day so holiday rations were in order - this meant candy was part of their regular chow). Stout always was keenly aware of the rumors concerning the Philippine bumper boats - stories were legion of the violent incidents between the crews of these native boats who would steal ashore at night without lights to pilfer supplies and assault the guards. Other versions had the guards shooting at the crews if the boats came too close to shore. | In any event, Stout remembers that night well and as. one of the longer ones he spent on guard. He also heard of a party the same night which his own radar operators had and violence ensued sending some to sick bay - one in serious condition. He doubted if LHO had been involved with the guard section that included Schrand, but he feels certain LHO wasn't anywhere near the violent NW 55993 Doold:32265131 Page 9
Stout interview page eight party. That just wasn't his thing. | After some time passed, they heard the official investigation resulted in an "accidental shooting" indicating Marty had apparently been horsing around with the weapon, ran a live round in the chamber, then dropped it and an accidental discharge resulted in the fatal wound. The rank and file still had trouble discussing the bumper boat crews, but Stout says, like everyone else, no one knew for certain but Marty. The only thing Stout does recall was that Marty had won $10.00 that day playing Bingo. He bought a camera (LHO bought one) everyone had one. A good Jap camera cost $25.00, a fraction of the cost in the States. He bought a Petrie and thinks. LHO may have had one, too, but doesn't remember. He soon sold his to Corporal Kacowski (phonetic) who was taking picture of everything in sight. .LHO took pictures around the base - local stuff - he's not. certain now. | He knew LHO was studying Russian, but didn't go anywhere for instructions. There's a Marine Educational Facility that keeps in touch with Marines by mail for all kinds of classes. He was under the impression LHO was going to complete all those Russian courses, sign over and get one of these interpreter's as- signments. He never mentioned anything about going to Russia, giving up his citizenship or anything like that. In retrospect, he can't recall any action or mannerism on the part of LHO which hinted at any such desire. NW 55923 Docid:32265131 Page 10
Stout interview page nine They did fire familiaration (course) together at Atsugi and he advised LHO was at best a poor marksman. He'd heard from those who had come through boot camp with LHO that he barely qualified with his rifle. Stout's impression was he did much better shooting pictures. What might be described as "LHO's group would have been Stout, George Wilkins, Bobby Warren and LHO," if for no. -Other reason "we were all young - within months of being the same age. - were all green as grass and consequently got a lot of crappy details: together." When they left Atsugi for the Philippines, they spent most of their free time together on board ship. | If he had any civilian friends or contacts of any kind, he didn't say so and I never saw anyone who looked the part. It just doesn't seem likely. | | "We did go exploring the caves, tunnels and old battle scenes on Corregidor. There was a lot to see, and that's another thing about that book "Legend." They wrote it like he was giving me a tour - nothing like tha t all. Another thing while I'm: thinking on it - if anyone threw LHO Ln the showers, I didn't see it and didn't hear about it." "TI returned to the States before he did, but I did see him on a bus about four months later going from Santa Ana to El Toro. He hadn't changed. Looked and acted the same. We talked small. talk and went our separate ways. I never saw him again." NW 55923 Doocld:32265131 Page il
y - Stout interview . a page ten Stout was surprised at the news of LHO's defection. He wasn't aware of code and frequency changes, not that it probably “didn't occur, but it was an ongoing thing. At least every month new books were issued changing everything anyway. Never thought of particular reasons. The changes seemed part of the system. No one ever interviewed him. Offhand, Stout couldn't say what LHO, or anyone of them for that matter, could have told the Russians other than "the U-2 could fly.off their scopes - high and far." Their service together amounted to approximately a year and a half (Stout's record credits him with one year, nine months and twenty days overseas duty. He was’ only aware of LHO being separated from their outfit twice; once due. to the sick bay confinement and once for the brig time Re: the mess sergeant's complaint. He can't be certain, though he wasn't that close all the time. NW 35923 Doold:32265131 Page i2