‘10 ar ‘for getting tapes transcribed, for erasing and reusing: ‘tapes, nn? | for dealing with conversations ‘of special interests, for routing transcripts of conversations contained on the tapes to appropriate officers at the Mexico City station. Do you is Ho | | { pune giving. testimony to this effect? { i | i a § 5 8 _ Phillips. I do., to. the: degree: that I knew the | 7 | detail, ana I reall atthe same time that I gave the names & 3 | of persons who knew better than I what the details were, yes. 5 Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Fine, At that time you also gave testi- D, 1g | Mony regarding the criteria that is applied for when an | intercepted conversation was considered sufficiently important WASHINGTON, wa fe tos eee ee ee en en ane ee | 12 te warrant sending a cable to Washington, D. C. | & é 13 | Mr. Phillips. I don' t recall that but I am sure that I | € is Mr. Goldsmith, And then specifically there was a discus- S i . i 1, | sion in reference. to the Oswald visit to Mexico City. Do you a 7 |recalt that? - : a Mr. Phillips. Yes, I do, : 9 | Mr. Goldamith. For the purposes of further clarification -= 29 | you gave testimony regarding the substance of a transcript that cee Uh lyou reviewed and it pertained to an intercept of an Oswald eet “ES 22 conversation. ‘Specifically, the intercept was linked to Oswal 15) / | prior to the assassination and the particular time involved was | i early October, late September of 1963. Do you recall giving if ; i - i testimony to that effect? RO ab ioed Be ow) tay GRTING COMPANY. sosle ,- HY 50955 DBocld: 32277212 Page 13
HY li i t r . | , ; pS | 7 “Mr, Phillips. Yes, and I believe that then I finally | me 2 | came down in that testimony on the fact: that I believe I | ; | recall seeing a transcript after the assassination which | || enna the étory told by a Mr. Celia Duran from the | Es | Cuban embassy. : : | a . | 3 5] Mr. Goldsmith, We will try to work this. step ‘by step. . &. yn will get to that... a a | & 7 Mr. Phillips. Okay. | : a Mr. Goldsmith. My , recollection is that you discussed - ! - 1p | two intercepts and two transcripts but first was ‘the ' transcript 2 | eat you reviewed in early October OF 1963 and the ‘substance $ 2 of that ‘and the'thrust ofthat conversation was more -or less ! : a [as follows: osiisla’ was ‘saying to the:Célia that he.,spoke to. | 3 eae the embassy, What have you heard about my visa?” What news : E ; | do -you have? vie ) i Lo co S ae Mr, Phillips. . Yes, sir, T recall. at _ Q ; oa an Mr. Goldsmith. “You also made the statement to the effect; _ 1s | What? 'g. wrong? why, don't you do this? . That should. be a state-| . | ment, to Oswald. “Do you! ‘recail ‘aking that statement? = = 7 Mr. Phillips. Sir s don! f. | eee | “Mr. Goldsmith, Do! you recall indicating that your opinion Ae. | ERI 2 was that Oswald intimated to the Soviets, Well, you really : | 2 | shout talk to me? | 77 Mr. Phillips. ves, I recall that. © a Mr. Goldsmith. 2 7 that you are hesitating somewhat. : . ALOERSON | SECRET comaaguy poosl4 50955 Docld:32277212 Page 14. | | ! .
12 rw > For purposes of refreshing your memory I would like briefly oe to review that portion of the transcript with you. Will the clerk hand the witness a copy. | | i 1 \ i u t i Specifically I: would ask you'to refer to page 51, line 12 i | ( | i . | | ' subject was an accurate reflection of what I thought and so | i 5 ‘| - Mr. Phillips. Yes, sir. oo E ‘| Mr. Goldsmith, Read that paragraph. 5 | _ Mr. Phillips. At the beginning of line 12? . | 5S a7 Mr. Goldsmith. Starting with line 12 to line 21. | : | Mr. Phillips. Yes. | | : 10 | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall giving that testimony? | : 7 Mr. Phillips. Yes, sir, If I may mention the context | : 12) and the’ circumstances under which it was given, the reason ‘that a Z 13 ix was called on that holiday, weekend is that there was a story z - jin the Washington- Post : by Mr. Ron Kessler and that story came : 13 | out. “in effect saying that I confirmed the fact that Oswald | ; 2 | haa offered something to the’ Soviets and that information | a | about that first message was not passed to ‘the Warren Commis- : - ! . - 4 “eee so those are‘the circumstances under which I was called | = Lew en 5 2 | I was working under the fact that I didn't think Mr. — a1 | Ressler's report without our various conversations on the | i that paragraph was saying in trying to recall these things | | 25 | Lee Harvey Oswald was there trying to get a visa and my i i - 4 i é ri COMPASEY, a poo bls ,; 24 | that perhaps it was my total perception in looking back one n " HI a 40955 BDoold: 32277212 Page 15.
oh Dei € 13 feeling that he was saying to them, Yes, you should give me one. Thinking about that -- and I think I might have mentioned | | i | 3 | this -- some of that may very well have. come from the fact I i _ ae 4 that afterwards I read that when he went to Mexico City he E 7 went with some papers to show them that he was a member of i 3 7 the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and so forth. . | : 7 Mr. Goldsmith, I believe, Mr, Phillips, that you did S 7 at that time make-a distinction between your recollection that | : >| was based upon the: transcript that you reviewed in October of : 2 1963 and events subsequent to the assassination. We will get 2 1 | into that distinction later on, - | | a " 7 | = rw Mr. Phillips. All right. ae : 13 Mr. Goldsmith, In addition you also testified before | i z | the committee about an intercept that came to your attention) : : 1s | atter the assassination; specifically it was a conversation. | = i: | between silia Duran and somebody else and it was about oswala. 4 7 | De you recall that? : : 2 Mr. Phillips. Yes, I do. i z 7 Mr. Goldsmith. With regard to the transcript, the sub- | 2 2) | stance’ of your testimony was that it was treated in the normal. et way; the transcript was routed to a Mr. Manell who was in | | charge of Soviet operations in Mexico City and then later to | 3 Sl you, and the reason it was routed to you was because of the 2! | Cuban mention in it. Do you recall giving testimony to that at avd | effect? i , . “ALGERSON REFORTING COMPANY pooe 50955 Dacld: 32277212 Page 16
4 | 2 1 a4 4 ws ES e i roe] wa ~ i ' i om i ve o | ~ Lond aq 7 | ~ . a j . S aout e i ~ Go Fd . u a i - ta 4 | S } S | pe li | & | = co toe | es Lon} H z a = 1 = if = fa I of i e / Coos | 2 i Poel te: ii an ae 1 ~ 4 5 am it “ H ze ia) =F | = ay | pay aw | | i wi a eer Beas net tie . H TAS i be “oN Hf e | anid 22 i a, 4 : pean ae 4 hh fl i HY 50955 Docld: 32277212 Mr. Phillips. absolutely positive have happened and I Mr. Goldsmith. why don't we take: ‘a read that section: Mr. Goldsmith. giving testimony to i summarized for you?: Mr, Phillips. Mr. Goldsmith. Mr, Phillips. MY... Goldsmith; ground purposes, Mr. Goldsmith, Mr. Phillips. Mr. Goldsmith: - Page if... _ aes re a Set 14 Yes. I am not sure that I said I was of that but that is the way it should had that. recollection, For purposes of further clarification look at page 57, line 6, and have you Read through to line 10, please. " All right. Have you read that? Do you recall t te the effect of the substance that I< just Yes, I do. Fine. ‘If I may add something there. Yourwill get a chance to go into the details later in the hearing. This is primarily for back- I see, Very good. With regard to the transcript, you also gave testimony regarding a transcriber’s note that the person speaking spoke in very bad Russian and you had the understand- ing that the person speaking was an American, Do you recall 22 | giving testimony to that effect? ‘Yes, I do. ‘You also gave testimony with regard to i the cable that was sent from Mexico City to CIA headquarters SEGRE!
15 i i ! t and you indicated that this cable was sent approximately three j | days after you first saw the intercept. Do you recall giving 3 testimony to that effect? | / G oo 4 Mr, Phillips. Yes, I do. | os | 5 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. and you also indicated that in fact you é é | signed off on the cable bedause of the reference to a Cuban g 7 situation. Do you recall that? | 7 Mr, Phillips. I recall that I’ said i probably signed off : : # fon it, It would have been part of my job and so forth, yes, : | but I recall it. | | E "| Mr. Goldsmith, Fine. At that time you also gave testi- 2 | mony explaining to. the” Gommittee why the cable was sent out | eb : 13 several days after: the intercept ‘came in, | : | Mr. Phillips. . Yes. | | : is | Mr. Goldsmith. and specifically you indicated that z me, Manell was busy, he sometimes procrastinated, and in fact ! a 7 | you considered the: cable important and for this reason you | : 16 ‘made some inquiries: of: him as to whether the’ cable had been | a | a =z 9 jsent. 1 .Do _you recall that? BC | 7 é 2 | Mr. Phillips. something along that line, yes. | Mr.- ‘Goldsmith, With ‘regard to the contents of the cable | the substance of your - testimony was that it referred to Lee Henry Oswald, it gave the physical description that did not <4 ifit Mr. Oswald and it. indicated that a “contact with the Soviet | | a? vembassy haa been made in' reference to a visa. Do you recall | i Sp SERGE A : me Rp hs RB ts 8 a i . ALDEESON REFORTING COMPANY | poos! ; HW 50955 Docld:32277212 Page 18—
o ° wt ~ 2 w i wv z wa fo] ~ NS G 2 os / nay cs s Pad ca) rod ™ : “ ra ? a = [0 sa) g fa li n a 1 5 = 2 of = = 43 ha IS =a ta wn a . S i V2 & i) S . = = be is = “oy ‘ i) in = OIF = : c Se .29 OSS See ay a4 as - By . GC 49 HY 50955 Boclda: 32277212 Page ig 16 giving testimony to that effect?” Mr. Phillips. Ido. At a later date I decided that I was wrong about the Henry originating in that cable. Mr. Goldsmith. We will. get into that later on. Mr. Phillips. ~ “ALL. right. . “MY, Goldsmith: would like to indicate for the record that in the event that I do not cover a question or raise a question that permits you to answer what is:on your mind, at the. end of the hearing you will be given five minutes - ‘to address the committee to raise any additional points. Mr. Phillips; ‘very good... Mr. Goldsmith; Similarly, at the, time of your testimony | you gave testimony*to the effect that the cable made reference to a photograph, it” gave an incorrect description of Oswald and that the reason for this was: ‘that either or i i 1 4 il B A tf i A i i il {| tt i i HT Hi i | i fas put ‘gogether a ‘transeript of a man calling was that in this case 1 and 1 did not equal 2. Mr. Phillips.: That is correct, Mr, Goldsmith.: You also gave testimony regarding the ' gable that came from headquarters to the Mexico City station | on or about October 16 and that cable had the correct name of Oswald according to your testimony. It gave the background gc: ed Re) eed sgt agen RGAE E ALOEMSON REPORTING COMPANY, oo 8! 1
HW 450955 17 jor of Oswald, his marriage to. a Soviet citizen, his military ee] background. Further, it gave a correct description of Oswald be i P believe you indicated that the cable originated before | Oswald's contact with’ the Soviet embassy. Do you recall 5 a giving testimony to that effect? - 5] Mr, Phillips. Yes, I do, g 7 . Mr, Goldsmith, I would like at this point to go into. S | these areas in more detail. 5 7 First turning to the area of tapes, how long were tapes . it : | retained as a mattér of routine procedure in Mexico City in : | 1963 prior to the tapes: “*beingierased for reuse, if you know? $ 2 | Mr. Phillips.’ All right. I must tell you that | my ; : 13 | recollection is ‘based on what I understood other. people were z + seine I was never involved in the business of handling the 2 \5 || tapes per se, I never visited the place where the transcribing : 13 [vas done and so forth but my recollection was that they were. ‘ 7 | wevaity kept. for. a couple of weeks or’ SO and then they were : 18 | erased so that -you would not: have: them piling up in a room : 19 land reused. again. - oT did not actually a@eal with the tapes. S 10 | | Mr, Goldsmiths After the assassination did the Mexico icity station have in its possession a tape of Lee “Harvey loswald's voice? Mr. Phillips.’ Not to my knowledge. Mr. Goldsmith.- I would like at this time for the clerk nto give to Mr. Phillips a stack of materials that we received SECRET . aLoenson:ge208T! NG COMPAR 0 Doug 2”, Docld: 32277212 Page 20 -
ad “ a re . | [| from the CIA. ae OE oe a, | | a] ‘I would ask you to refer to CIA docunent No. 198, | For | os 2 | the record, I will indicate that these are materials that you | | a received | from the Central Intelligence Agency yesterday and | | : 5 | the agency has made’ an effort, to provide us with: the. “documents | 3 7 that we need, . “AG: the’ same time ‘they have asked that we make ad a ’ | every effort to keep these documents secure and account “for : = | them. In that regard they have numbered every document that | : | eney have given to us. and rather ‘than introduce these docunents z 0 | inte the record I wit simply be. referring to the document ‘by = | the. nunber that: the’ agency has assigned to it. So ‘in. this an oo : 2 | case. we are referring to CIA No. 198. oO SO , fe : 3 - Mr. Phillips." this isa cable, yes. | : M : Am I correct. that this is a cable? = ls 7 2 13 Mr, Goldsmith: : yes. - = 7 Mr, Phillips. “ana it is the-red number 198 that you are | ~ i . , ce “ "| referring to at the bottom .of the page. 7 oe _ | 8 Mr, Goldsmith, that is correct. I ask if you would : E 2 | nica read through: this cable. — | | . | 5 am “Mr. Phillips: ~ ‘ALL right, sir. | - Mr, Goldsmith.- Now T believe you have , identified this as.. the second paragraph, “specifically the second sentence of that. pn ba RET . WR i a cable, What is the date of the cable? — i. - ‘| Me, Phillips.’ 23 November 1963, | | a Mr. Goldsmith. I ‘would like to refer your attention to om i 4 aw 50955 .Docld:32277212 Page gi
: ER i 2s tn Saf Bee i : nn SN SOON ce . 19 | | Paragraph, and ask” you to reread that, please. ! 1 Mr, Phillips. All right, sir. | a] Mr. Goldsmith, : Now according to the sentence it indicates _— | |e the station is*unable to compare voices because the first | z ears was erased prior to the receipt of the second call. Does. 4 | this suggest to you that one tape was°still incexistence:at i 4 7 | the time that the cable was sent? In other words, the cable : x 3 | does not say all tapes re Oswald have been erased, it indicates S ‘ > | we are unable to compare voices because the first tape-was | : 10 | erased prior to thevreceipt of the second call. sO | | : 7 Mr. Phillips. Yes. Obviously it means we cannot compare | $ 2 | votes because we do‘ not have two. | : 13 | Mr, Goldsmith?” Therefore implying that there may still | z 14 | be one, . | | vs | Mr. Phillips. That reading could be put in there, I _ Fi | suppose, yes. a | | Mr, Goldsinith. | Based upon this, to your knowledge did the : 18 | Mexico City station after. the assassination have in its posses: - | atom a tape of Lee: Harvey Oswald's voice or someone whom they 5 -0 | thought to be Lee Harvey Oswald? | { : i ve. . | Mr, Pniiiipss "Not. to my knowledge. | Pav 2 Mr. Goldsmith. Now I believe. paragraph:1' of. this séable . 43 ¢ makes - reference to" a. conversation involving deta Duran on re se september °28 and also” two unidentified North Americans and the ‘cable suggests. that the person: who contacted the,Cuban | | 3 * =| REFOATING COMPANY D00 LY Docld:32277212 Page 22 ,
| | iW # Shur the Sha? eh Bes 20 and Soviet embassies on September 28 is Oswald. What I would i i like. to ask you is;*do you think it was unusual for the first | | : . 43 is made on September 28, another. is made on 1 October and | 4 | | | tape to be erased’ quite so soon? In other words, one contact } | Es 7 within four days the first tape is erased. Is there anything | é 4 unusual about that? | | | 5 r Mr. Phillips.:: Well, it is a question of judgment of the | S 2 | people who are handling the case how important something is. ‘ ae do know that it was routine to erase tapes so that they | a i = 1 | could be used again and I do know that the Soviet and Cuban | : 7 embassies, there were a number of unusual visitors over the | : «| me Some of them Seemed to be sort of kooky, some of them | e E 13 | you didn't quite understand. Looking back I certainly agree | 2 a with this. This is the kind of thing that should not have : : 1 been erased, I don't think it was highly unusual, no. | z a Mr. Goldsmith: I would like to refer you now to CIA r 7 | document No. 239 and specifically in the middle of the page | ke d ; | : et believe it says CS Comment and there is an asterisk and a : 5 . ao . = aoe after that. Would you please read that sentence, | é *| Mr, Phillips, : "Station to erase routine tapes, Soviet | KSEE 11 | embassy keeping normal two week lag." = 22 | Mr, Goldsmith. So according to this cable and also to : sd 22 your testimony, the normal lag would be two weeks and yet we : 2! |) nave an erasure of'cable, the Oswald tape, within several days > i after its receipt. Based on that do you regard the erasure | 3 oo ae ENG Bee ME P Onut Rank ” ‘ i ALIDE RESON FEPORTING COMPANY 2 600 S23, t HW 50955 Docld:329277212 Page 23 .
21 of the first Oswald tape as unusual, not in keeping with ha routine procedure? “* - aw Mr. Phillips. No, it is not. The routine procedure I i now read here was: a normal two, week lag so doing it earlier Es 5 | was certainly not “keeping within the routine procedure. 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know who the person would . be that | 8 > | the committee might address regarding the specific tape? é ale Mr. Phillips.’ “nb ‘pelieve in ny. previous -~ either in my : ; | testimony before the: committee or in my. day long session with : 10 | the staff members before’ I: gave them the names of people. who 2 i} r thought would be: ‘knowledgeable of that. They were a Mr. | 4 12 | | a Miss Ann coodpasture and possibly Mr. Robert . z meh Mr. Goldsmith.” Turning for a moment to Miss Goodpasture, : s | wnat were her responsibilities at the ‘Mexico City station? | : 6 Mr. phillips. ‘Well, she was an experienced CIA officer ‘4 17 | and so she had a number of responsibilities across. the board Z elas recall them.: Without: smaking a deprication she was s sort: = | E + foe the- Girl Friday to the Chief of the Station in the sense é aol he often called: on her to handle a lot of things. Specifically though, however, I do recall that she did have the job of some sort of liaison with the outside unit where these tapes were done. I believe I recall her coming in and 2 bout of our office with suitcases -- not suitcases but brief~- An | cases that might have had tapes or transcripts or something yo _ en - | oo | a CeET ALDESSON ene COMPANY . Qooe HW 50955 Docld: 32277212 ‘Page 240
HY 50955 20024 (202) 554-2945 D.C. S.W. 7 fan we = = [7 9] = ~ cc oC or Docld:32277912 Page 25 REPORTERS BULTLDING, WASHINGTON , Ww $e tre a 22 in them. Mr. .Goldsmith;: Is it faizto aay, that Winn Scott, the Station Chief, relied on Ann Goodpasture a great deal? | Mr, Phillips:"~Yes, I think that is an accurate state- ment. | Mr. Goldsmith: Was she in any way given more responsi- bilities than the case officers at the Mexico City station? Mr, Phillips. I certainly don't believe that she was given operational responsibility -- that is, with cases that were being run and that sort of thing, — Since she enjoyed the confidence of the Chief of Station, perhaps he did give her some assignments non-operational in aspect that might be more important than some of the case officers, yes, but she herself of course was at that time certainly a middle grade officer. Mr. Goldsmith, --I would like now to refer you to CIA document No. 206 which is a cable dated 23 Novenber 1963 and I ask you to read paragraph 4 which can be found on page 208, Mr, Phillips. Yes, sir, / | Goldsmith: “First of all, Douglas J; Fineglass, that was the , pseudonym for Mr. Boris roregoft, was it not? Mr, Phillips, : Ido not recall that it was, I remember. the last time I testified I thought it might have been a man ‘named George something. Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Misco? SECRET. : . GA “| ALQERSON REPORTING COMPANY 9 pool > Mr, Phillips. Misco. I do recall the name that you are
~b from the Cuban embassy, 28 Septenber, to the Soviet enbassy. Ob 20024 (202) | there again we have another suggestion in the CB cable chapter’ 7 230) a mentioning but z canno~ say / definitely that that is his - | pseudonym. | ot, | ot 2 Mr. Goldsmith" Fine.  In_ any event the cable here is a + dated after the ‘assassination and it indicates that Me. | | 7 | | . 3 : Fineglass, whoever he is, says that Oswald is identical with | —_ 2 “| the person ‘in paragraph 1 speaking broken Russian, a call | : | | ; 3 9 | that after the assassination the agency in fact did have a = | | ~ a a ro ; z 10) tape-of Oswald's voice. Based upon paragraph 4, would that . = ii | be your judgment? ~*~ a r | a Mr. Phillips. *"No, simply because of my firm. recollection | - ES @ Z 13 | that a tape did not exist after the assassination, , I am not.) 2 1 sure in my mind, counselor. I cannot remember whether the + : 3 | teason thatwe had»Oswald on tape was because we were covering a a Cuban phone and” he" ‘happened to call the Soviet embassy or : ‘ 7 | whether we were covering a Soviet phone and picked. shim. UP that : ye but i do go back to a very, very brief early message of - : a . | = 19 his contacts, not the one about ‘deika Duran, sO a. ‘tape would | S 2 | have existed at one time of that I would think. ty | ! SE 7 - ' Mr, Goldsmith?” “Would that tape have been in, existence ! / PX S| after the. assassination? ae | ® | 2s Mr, Phillips. ‘My ‘recollection is that it was, ‘hot in | existence. | ; : 2 Mr. colasinith. would Like’ now to ask you to refer to ALDERS SON A HW 50955 Docld:32277212 Page 26—
50955 2 3 4 4 wa = fs ~ i] ™~ ' a : wa jo} -~ ~ . a 7 ~ a “ a 3 c os wu 3 a = 1G a H g = 1) a < -~ 12 cS = . pre 5 13 = = = lA an ce & Ve Pa to > = 1g = “ 17 mS [2 = te a = 13 ~ c aa S 29 on Lee aad a4 Ta Ae yoo 23 a Jb , CIA document No. 177. Please read that cable. Mr. Phillips. Yes, sir. Mr. Goldsmith... What is the date on this cable? might have been sent the day before or the same day. Mr, Goldsmith. Fine. Mr. Phillips. Probably the day before, I guess, | sent to CIA headquarters in reference to Oswald? that turned out notyto fit, yes. prompted }to send? recall it. i is in the brown folder. Would you read through that cable? : BEBE _ ALDERSON REPORTING S MP aN Doclda: 322377212 Page 27 Mr. Goldsmith.” 9 October would be the day that this cable arrived at the CIA headquarters, is that correct? at CIA document No."10 that is about to be handed to you. OE 24 | | Mr. Phillips.: The date of the cable seems to be 9 October | | | | Mr. Phillips. Yes, and since it is a routine cable it i Mr. Goldsmith: Is this the cable that Mexico City statio Mr, Phillips,’ It is the one I recall being two pieces Mr. Goldsmiths Is this the cable that you more or léss Mr. Phillips. Yes. I would not like to over~emphasize my role in prompting ‘them. to do it though but it is the one that I recall that was delayed in going and as I recall finally went out, [actually put the cable together as I Mr. Goldsmith: Okay. I would like now for you to look It 2}
25 Mr, Phillips. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. The language in the two cables appears Ww : | to be identical, however the date in cable and CIA document | © 4 No. 10 is 8 October, Would you explain to the committee the | Z 7 difference between the copy that’ appears in CIA No. 10 and | rs ‘| the copy that appears in No. 177? | | S 7. Mr. Phillips. This message of 8 October appears to be ~ S 3 | one leaving the Mexico City station going to headquarters and : + | aatea ¢ October. “Singe it-is a routine cable it would have | : | been processed during’ the evening by the communications people 2 Ho and sent-on to Washington in the next day or late that night, | 3 |. this appears to be the Mexico City copy of the cable we | & : 13 looked at a moment “ago. | | | - | : ia | Mr. Goldsmith’. And the other would be the copy as it was) : \s | receives by headquarters? 7 | : a0 Mr, Phillips. That is correct. a a Mr. Goldsmith, First drawing your attention to the nanes |” : ia | that appear on the cable in the upper left hand corner of CIA = > fae 10, it. says Le A. Dillinger, I believe that refers to | e “| | At the bottom of the page authenticating also| _www ?! i indicates L. A. Dillinger and the right hand portion of the | Of PpET TE u  ALDERSON ASPORTING COMPAR. O00 67 v j ; Se | _ : PX = | page indicates W..C. Curtis. I believe that was Mr, Scott. 2 23 Mr, Phillips.-:Yes, , | 2 | Mr, Goldsmith,’ And according to your testimony you | | 23 | snddeatea signing off on ‘this ‘cable. Does your name appear | 50955 Docld: 32277212 Page 26
ao} anywhere on this cable? no ‘he Mr. Phillips.’ -Tt does not. 3 wo ee » iss | ; |. Mr, Goldsmith’. Is there: any way you could explain that i the committee? | = an Mr. Phillips. Well, obviously 1 didn't sign off on it. F ‘| When I was giving. that previous testimony I was saying that é 7 (ote suige seam a cable that had to do with Cuba e 3 might have gone to-me., This cable here has to do with Soviet e - ‘ 3 | matters rather than the Cuban aspect of it and so for that : 19 | ¥eason it would not have necessarily been necessary for me to g 1 | be interested in Cuba to sign it off. I do recall seeing this | = 12 | cable before it was’ sent and perhaps that is the reason that & 13 I thought I signed*off. I recall seeing it in its typed form 2 | betore it went to the communications people but I obviously foo. REPORTERS BUTLDING, IS ‘Mr. Goldsmith, Does the cable in any way refer to Oswald | ‘ 7 | as tee Henry Oswald? 7 | : a Mr. Phillips. No, it does not. a Mr. Goldsmith, Is there any reference in there specifi-~ = 8 [eotty to a contact- by Oswald with the Soviet embassy or 21 | consulate in reference to a visa? 7 pa’ ni Mr, Phillips.:“No, there is not. | © 22 | Mr, Goldsmith. ‘Now I believe in your testimony before | “2 | the committee in-November of 1976 you indicated that you had #5 | signed the cable, that it referred to Oswald as Lee Henry pv 24 | me paly a x oir ou 50955 Docld: 32277212 Page 29‘,
_—- i | | gu i i | i ! { | day §54-2345 uy ou 20024 (202) t | | | i | ! HT | Mo p.c, ras « WASITNGTON , H { i 12 ua REPORTURS BUTELDING , oO. S.u, “4 53 of 3° gan Pri STREET, we AE oD a I SS a oh qj 1 i] a. | 27 Oswald and that it’ indicated that he contacted the Soviet embassy in. reference: to a visa. - | Mr, Phillips: “In Light of ‘that I am quite sure that my memory was inaccurate when I said that and that in looking at this now certainly it is the cable that I had in mind when I talked about that, yes. Mr. Goldsmith, But you are certain that this cable was shown to you or if not this cable, the contents of the draft cable that] wrote up prior to sending this one <- you are certain that that was shown to you? Mr, Phillips.“ I think I testified before that I think that | actually prepared the cable and my recollec- tion was that she left it on his desk and he was her superior | and husband and then. out it went. y see by this not only did <= ' she prepare it but: she was the authenticating author as well so it might have. gone out to the station. was out of the office or something “because his name does not. seem to be on it. Mr. Goldsmith. But in any event this is the cable. that you read? . Mr. Phillips.:-'I am convinced that it is. Mr. Goldsmith,” -A draft of it prior to the cable going out. | Mr. Phillips: - I am convinced it is, _ Mr. Goldsmith. Would you please refer now to CIA No. 183, Bt ae ee SF Layee + * 1 ' I i i f i { } i : ALDER SON nae PORTING, CO MPABY oo , Od 301 HW 50955 Docld:3223772912 Page ce , , , , ,
HW 450955 t b> fsa Or a 2024 (202) S54~2345 D.C, <> VASHTNCGTON , Ww. REPORTERS BULLDING, oO <4 28 Mr. Phillips.’ Should 1 ea it, sir? Mrz.Goldsmith, ves, please do. Mr. Phillips. All right, sir. I have not read it thoroughly but I do recall this message. . Mr. Goldsmith, Is this the cable that CIA headquarters sent to Mexico City station responding to the cable of 10/9 wae from Mexico city station? Mr. Phillips, ' It is my understanding that that is correct, yes... | | | | i Mr. Goldsmith. Now reading the first paragraph of this | . | cable which is dated 11 October 1963 it refers to Oswald as jt Henry Oswald. | Mr. Phillips. Yes, sir. | - Mr. Goldsmith, Your testimony in November of 1976, as you have indicated: before, is that the cable that came back | from headquarters ‘corrected Oswald's name as that name was | sent up froti ‘the Mexico City station to headquarters yet this 1 cable from CIA headquarters refers to Oswald as Lee Henry | Oswald in fact, not using his proper name. In light of that i is there any way that you can explain the inconsistency | | between your testimony and the cable? Mr. Phillips. Yes, I feel quite sure about it now. I | have the recollection Lee Henry Oswald and I somehow came up | | with the idea that in Mexico City we had decided Henry Oswald. | Later I saw a copy. ‘of this or something very close, to it. I “ts Gag aae bo Bo | we ORGR EI .¥3\ ALQESSON REPORT NG COMPAR . Oo%. Bocld: 32277212 Page 31
29 oie. : , Oo : ' i | believe I might have been shown a copy during my testimony ti | ! but even before that in any. event I saw this cable. I am | i ) 4 | now absolutely convinced that I made that error remembering. [ @ 4 this cable which described. Lee Harvey Oswald. I wrote a book | 5 7 and a portion of. that had to do with Mexico City and Oswald | : ‘| and in that book I said Lee Henry Oswald and I believe that ~ | < 7 | is where that Henry. came from and I' was incorrect in saying : o a | it came from Mexico and doing | : [a disservice about = i ; | it because I indicated that she or whoever was listening to : os this --~ and it rust have been this Boris fellow -- but that | 3 | is the way it was. Now I am sure “tt was this message that | 3 12 |) gave ania “ | Z | | Mr, Goldsmith, Referring your attention to document z 1s | No. 183, there is an arrow pointing ‘to the Henry and the | : 1s | word "sic" underscored right next to the arrow. That is | E | Winn Scott's handwriting, is it not? | a 7 | Mr. Phillips. It is such a small-word I would hate to : - 13 say for sure but it looks to me like it was, yes. | | = . = | Mr. Goldsmith. ‘SO apparently Mr. Scott recognized the e | ntome name Henry being incorrect and wrote, down "sic" next, | — 11 | te it. What does the term "sic" mean as you know it, as that ye 2 term is customarily used? - t i iH i i i ke BR 4 Mr, Phillips. “Certainly it meant this the way the message arrived, this is the way it was written, but from what | I gather from there is -- well, the normal usage by putting : SECRET a , ALDSRSOM RESORTING COMPAR.” (o0h3e Cea §0955 Doocld:32277212 Page 32
; 30 that. down this: is -the way they said it. but it certainly. does indicate that: he. ‘feels that ‘it is: ‘not correct. nh. gon Mr... “Goldsmith. “Rights” Sp ae gt wo Mr. phillips: “Mr. Scott | ‘was a man with a near ‘photo- . ih x pack Aa + graphic “memory. “Hes Was a atickler ‘for’ detail: i : | i z at Mr. ‘Goldsmith, » Do you “have any reason to believe that S ; | when” ‘this cable was received ‘in October of 1963 Mr. Scott, z | | knew th that cable’ Ss teference to Lee Henry Oswald was. incorrect? ; >| Mr, phillips, No, I don't recall that, but reading ‘this . 2 ebviously at whatever time, he wrote. that "sic" on theré he. & , | fere i it was incorrect’ or he would: not have spotlighted it that a E arene But I don't have. any recollection. T don't have _any 7: S Z 1, | recollection that we knew before this cable | came back down ! ee = va that. it was Lee Harvey Oswald, | : E sl . Mr. Goldsmith;” What was your relationship Like with: 7 : 5 te Mr. Scott? | | = cae Mr, Phillips. “Quite close. I think he trusted ne, L 2 | jerusted my judgment, and 30 it was a | relatively close : |, | professional relationship. ‘Mr, Scott is a man who if he likes : x» |omeone and it is’ ‘obvious that he likes them, and I felt that 1 jhe liked me. He is an unusual man. tf admired him, in many is £25 1 ways and in some ways: T° didn ' t but it was a elose relationship. “> : - Mr. Goldsmith; Is it true that he was a very competent - | 2 and demanding station chief? | | ons Mr. Phillips. “Absolutely. . . - : LOSRSON REPORTING. (COMPARE : : - i (00 v3.2 j HW 50955 DocId:32277212 Page 33 -
31 . Mr. “Goldsmith. -Before we’ leave this cable I would like ine) to refer you to your testimony before the committee, specif- ically page 84 of*that testimony, line 4, Mr. Phillips. “Yes, sir. es | Mr. Phillips. This is an example of the transcripts which were made from tapes from this telephone coverage. z 5 Mr. Goldsmith. Having read that, is it true that in your z ‘4 | testimony before the committee in November of 1976 you indicated g 7 | that you recall that the cable. from, Headquarters straightened | + “ ! S a out the record. about Oswald's: name?_ a} oo | , 7 Mr. Phillips’ Yes, that is what : said. Having since | : 1 | had a chance to review those documents I believe that my : 7 recollection was false. | 12 | Mr. Goldsmith, When did you review the documents? | B : 12 Mr. Phillips, Well ; just now during my. last testimony | z at recall being shown that first brief cable, : z sd Mr, Goldsmith.’ In sanitized form? | S S| Mr. Phillips.” Yes, in sanitized form. ‘ in | Mr, Goldsmith. Would you please now refer to CIA No. 13 : : 13 | which is in that folder? | | | z | Mr. Phillips, ~All right, sir. : S 20 s Mr. Goldsmith,. Can you identify this ‘document? - = | i Mr, Goldsmith. What is the date of this particular dccu-| ment in the upper’ right hand corner? Mr, Phillips... -1 October 63. | ALDESS one “: aoe De a OOO onl y 4 HW 50955 Docld: 32277212 Page 34
2 “ J oe w a 2 ™N i 0 ‘ ws 8 ~ ~ ' oS o 7 ~ ow 2 a = “ . 4 ray md co ~ 10 S g = 4 ps a < iar Zs : = 12 fed = by “ a 13 a = Bo. Gi ss Sond = 5 4 —s = eZ iS = “ V7 S ig i in = ig = c ce 30 pas 2 a] ree oe cae a iS an oO 32 HW 50955 | the same person who-phoned a day or so ago and. spoke in broken ai ' Russian so apparently there are two messages referred to, so I am not positive that it is this one or the other one or both. 32 Mr. Goldsmith, So is it fair td say that this is a conversation that: was tape récorded on 1.0ctober 63? Mr. Phillips. -Yes, undoubtedly, + Soviet embassy sometime after 0955 in the morning? Mr. Phillips.“ Yes, I would say close to 9:55. Mr. Phillips. Yes. | | | Mr. Goldsmith s. ‘And that the conversation came into the | | | I t | 1 | { | Mr. Goldsmith, Is this the transcript that you read which prompted the Manells to send a cable to headquarters? | Mr. Phillips.:<I am not positive but I think so. I must | | | | ineereene that you’ recall or rather that is the transcript i say for the record there is a line in there that surprises me, I did not recall that he said I was at your place indicating that he had been at the Soviet Union. I did not think that “> Lee Harvey Oswald ‘had actually visited in person the Soviet embassy. Mr, Goldsmith.” Fine. But in substance that is the that you recall seeing in early October 1963 in reference to Oswald's contact with the Soviets? Mr. Phillips:°:I cannot be positive. I see here it says up at the top where it says the same person who phoned a day i “+ SAL PESSON pani t Mo Bae cans . Aba ess Docld: 32277212 Page 35 Mr. Goldsmith:”* Would you now read the transcript itself? 3 i i i ' : 1 1
33 ti . i ine) Mr. ‘goldsmith. This cable does identify Lee Oswald, a. does it not, or rather he identifies himself? Mr. Phillips. This is a transcript. |! the one that appears in the CIA No. 13, can be tied into the | { | ) z 5 Mr. Goldsmith. I am sorry. You are right, a transcript. | 3 ‘| Mr. Phillips. Yes, it does identify Lee Oswald, g a Mr. Goldsmith,: Is there any reference in this transcript | S 7 to a visa? : | Mr. Phillips.» No, there is not. .He says that he spoke | : ire | to the consular. ‘One might gather that he was speaking about | 2 | visa matters but he does not say that, — | 2 | Mr. Goldsmith, Is there any indication in here that gb : 13 Oswald is saying "Why don't you do this® or intimating that | z 4 | the Soviets should’talk to him? 7 e i : | Mr. Phillips.°*No, there is not. : z | Mr. Goldsmith; Let's take a look again at that cable : ‘ 7 | that was sent by the to headquarters. : | It is No. 177, CIA number 177. : z F | | Mr. Phillips. “All right. | 5 ze | Mr. Goldsmith. Is it accurate to say that this transcript, | 2 | gable that was sent onOctober 1 that appears in CIA No. 177?) | Mr, Phillips.- Yes, I would say that that transcript is | the basis for the first paragraph of this. Mr. Goldsmith. Let's look now to CIA No. 14. You might | ALDERSOM PREF See NG Ba oe O0¢ Gal, H¥ 50955 Docld:32277212 Page 36
HW +e bh 3 re) = 5 foal ww MN d wa wa fs) -~ : “ ‘ o os 7 ad % ™ i) _ a Fa} foal oa . ) a ¥ Qa « A a 7 = 4 = ad wy — = ya = 12 - Ses : = at « a bo an an — oa tA 3 Ae wn on &. 2 = 45 im) oe tine fan pa is ~ an aay 1S 19 3 SEDRE f Mr, PhELLips. fF do. speak ‘spanish, yes! oO All right, sir. . aa 34 han to réad both 14 and 15, No. 15 is a translation, . However, oe take it. ‘you, are familiar with the Spanish. Mr. Go1damith, Can you’ identity this ‘transcript? Me Phillips. “Yes. This is. obviously a transcript of, 2a ‘conversation in which Spanish was. spoken from the- Cuban. | from phones in the: Cuban embassy but of course it. could have from: the. Cuban embassy. Mr. coldsmith, . What. is the date on which this’ sation took place? Mr, Phillips. 28 September 63. see that now, Yes, 1151 hours, » | embassy and consequently I would presume it was an intercept | been on Soviet phones picking | up a eall if it was coming in conver “Mr. Goldsmith,” At approximately 1151 hours? © ‘Mz, Phillips.-I'don't see that, counselor. Oh, yes, I -Mr, Goldsmith. Is this the transcript that “you. read which triggered the: cable to. Washington, D. C., CIA head-.... ‘quarters? me of Mr. Phillips. No, I don't ‘think it was. “Tt ‘seems: to. me. this is the. one which became important, after the assassination, Mr. Goldsmith, Fine.» ‘Are you testifying that. transcript was not reviewed by anyone at the Mexico station until after the assassination? ($0955 Docld:32277212- Page 37 | this Sey city | poo ¥27 4
nm be Ww = 5 a 2 GN t wo : wi 3 ~ “~ ; a ba ron] f ed “a 04 fas} “ = . ~ . a re) y fond - A =z a Ne S a S = ' pes i] Ww “a = i2 if) = a Sie] a ta. = oo ta = 4 A & 1s 2 i Ya iS — wn f . Soret ae s 13 = tt = n = 1S ~ c S 29 ey oes, its ane if & 22 Ze “~, ie 50955 DBocld:32277212 Page 32 have reviewed and™ it would appear from (this, for instance, Mr. Phillips;" Oh, no. No, absolutely not. Mr. <Goldsmith®. - Please clarify the record. , Mr. Phillips.* oh, all right. AS a matter of fact, I can! see by the notes heie that it was reviewed by people and so | forth e ; , ” Fa here is one-thing that I would like to insetd at this moment for the record, something that I can't récail exactly | which might -have!a bearing. I was in Mexico city doing one | job when I first arrived in.1961, Later I was.tola that I / was going to leave that job and:assume Cuban responsibilities | in the station. I don't recall the precise time 1jformally | changed from -my- old: job to the Cuban one. I did kijow there wh was a long period when I was wearing both hats '--‘1ot officially to Cuba. ‘So some of the Cuban documents, even though . I was very much interested at that time. Teyould not that I didn't necessarily review this one because. 4 see other people's names on ‘dt. 18 Mr. Goldsmith. All right. For purposes, of. clarification | ‘y is your testimony then that your testimony is not, that this“ was. not reviewed | cuntil after the. assassination but, simply that! it was not linked to Oswald until after the assassination? Mr. Phillips. That is right, yes. Mr. Goldsmith. These refer to CIA No. 17. “can | you read that again? I believe this is a translation on. “the “next page. | co MP aNe, "Be le / (06 $30 gf . i
{ | Mr. Phillips: All right. . -_ 2) Yes, sir, | 3 i Mr. Goldsmith. Can you identify this transcript? . (e 4 Mr, Phillips. ‘ Yes, This: transcript would be one of the | z 5 Soviet embassy regarding an incoming call from the Cuban | { i i a 6 consulate on the 27th of September. | 5 | Mr. Goldsmith. At approximately 1605 hours, is that S / correct? - =) i Mr. Phillips. Yes, and I notice in the English trans- : 2 lation at least itsdoes mention something about a visa. | : | Mr, Goldsmith. Is this the transcript that you read | = 12 | which resulted in a cable being sent to Washington, D. C.? | e | Sa . @ 5 | Mr. Phillips. I don't believe so because I don't believe| ; : | this says this is Lee Harvey Oswald whereas the other one did : 2 5 | so. This might have been a part of the reason why it. was. 2 6 | sent by the Soviet people and so forth, but I don't recall SW. ; that this particularly was it, no. | | Mr. Goldsmith.- And there is also no indication in here, . !. Jan FTTH STREP, { i 7 | is there, of Oswald’saying "Why don't we do this" or intimating® - that the Soviets should talk to him? I do recall this. 7 cere tl | Mr. Phillips. No. ! a a pa’ Z| Mr. Goldsmith. Would you please refer now to CIA No. 19 | “* |) and read that one? a4, Mr. Phillips: Yes, I have gone through it rapidly. | | i 000%?) WW 50955 Docld: 322377212 Page 39
Mr. conversation? 50955 Doeld: 32277212 Page 40 you receive a transcript of Oswald's voice or rather Oswald's | 37 |  « Mr. Colismith.  Would.-you identify this particular | 2 | transcript? , | 2 | Mr. Phillips;--.This is a transcript of coverage of the . | cuban embassy and apparently what has happened: here is that | Es | was coverage: at both ends and it looks to me like it is s 4 | double tapping of a: telephone possibly but this apparently . | 2 7 | risisaes in ‘the Cuban embassy and was tapped there, It is: a a in Spanish so it was ‘the Spanish working on the translator. s | Mr. Goldsmith.: No, this tap would have been off the : 10 | phone from the Soviet embassy, would it not? | Z all Mr. Phillips.” Yes, I can. see now that it was. Um hum. | $ 2 | Mr. Goldsmith, ‘The reason for that is that it indicates | Ep . : 13 | on page 20 IV meaning Individual Voice. Ask cbs. | | z a Mr. Phillips.» ves, I see _ that now. | | EB is | Mrs Goldsmiths ‘Is this’ ‘the ‘transcript that you read | 2 i Z | wien resulted in the cable being sent to Washington in | ‘ 7 | reference to Oswald? | | : 7 Mr. Phillips. 1 don't recall. % 7 . 9 | _ Mr. Goldsmith; ‘There is no mention here of Oswald: saying) = i. mean e _ don't you do this" or intimating that they should talk! to, —— a | him? | | | pay 2 Mr. Phillips. No. | 1 Goldsmith.” ‘How soon after the first intercept did | C00 YO
38 & /* I thought » ‘that - I had seen the transcript and the cable which ge | | : : Mr. Phillips.- I am not sure that I received after the | | conversation a copy of the transcript. What I am sure is that, | the cable that went out as a result so I am not sure that I | - | i @ 4 saw these things) until after the assassination at which time | : s] of course. going, back but » I. don! t recall that I actually. saw é , enen. I ‘nay ‘have: but T on" récall ‘then, | : 7 Mr’. Goldsmith: Let's refer to”page 75 of your transcript S 2 testimony -- I am sorry, of your testimony. : | Mr. Phillips, I am sorry. — : a | Mr. Goldsmith. Specifically line 18. : | Mr, Phillips, Yes. | 3 a| Mr. Goldsmith, Would you read from line: 18 through to | E 4 | Line 23? | | | 7 | : 14 | Mr. Phillips.- "Mr. Sprague, do you know approximately" ~ : i Mr, Goldsmith:: Oh, no, read it to yourself, please. z a Mr. Phillips.< 1 am sorry.- | | ‘ 17 All right. | : ep Mr. Goldsmith.” Does this refresh your recollection as : a to -- well, first of all whether or not you ‘actually saw. the g 19 | intercept after it came in? By intercept t am referring to” | | | eg! | teannoripe. | ge 28 ‘Mr. Phillips. Reading from this it makes it clear tat | 34 resulted from it but I cannot be positive despite that state ae ment that ‘TI actually saw that transcript itself until after — : ooo€ 4 | 50955 Docld:32277212. Page 41
Fe. 39 ty the assassination. RR . | 2 | Mr. Goldsmith, Did you ‘indicate -to the committee at that | 3 time that you were not sure whéther or not you had seen the . : 5 Mr. Phillips. I don't recall. - | | | 3 3 Mr, Goldsmith. But according to your testimony here you | 2 7 did receive the transcript three days after the intercept cane | : | an. | | | | | ; | Mr. Phillips. --Obviously that is the inference to be | < 0) drawn from the transcript, yes. : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Chairman, I have been. told by the 2 | een that we are going to be having a vote ina few minutes | ; a : 12 so if you want to recess for lunch this might be an. appropriate . z ime | | | | : is | | Mr. Preyer. -I suggest that we recess until two o'clock | = 1s | today it that is all right with ‘you. ‘Will you be able to be : “47 | back then? ; E 2 Mr. Phillips. I certainly can, sir. z a Miss Berning. I don't know if we have a room at two. C a nye you give me a moment, I will call and see if the réoni is | | | available that early but I scheduled that for four. | — j ; . | at Mr. Preyer, ‘Scheduled at four. | | : Miss Berning. Yes. a Mr, Preyer, ‘I think that four is not going to work so © | yet in the future but I can be here at four today, So we | i _° ALQERSON REPORTING COMER poobtr HW 50955 Docld:32277212 Page 42. i. -) - 37
40 | will just recess’ until four. | 7 Mr. Dodd. Why don't you wait until you see if she gets | Sa room, . | aly 4 | Mr. Preyer. ‘We will be in. session anyway so I don't : Es : think that is going to make much difference. | 5 6 | Miss Berning. We can have the room at three but it will | g 7 take a while to get it ready so we could not do it much before | S 3 four, | : | Mr. Dodd. No chance of meeting in the other room? : ic | Mr. Preyer. Where is the room at four? 2 | Miss Berning.- 2212, Armed Services. . s | ‘Mr, Preyer. We will recess until four o'clock today. | ae ie = ue 7 e - . 3 fs a i234 I am going tovhave to leave close to six o'clock so I 2 '4 1 hope we can finish in a couple of hours. Fé | £ tf 4 Mr. Goldsmith. I think we can do that. 2 i Pa il hangin = aan (Whereupon, at 12:17 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, ~ , woo | “ \F | to reconvene at 4:00 p.m., the same day.) Zoo | _-- . = “4 Ward fls = a at 4pm _ ; i | 4 | eta Ta oy PE i So Sandal t -ALQENSOM RESORTING COMPANY 00% 45 HW $0955 Docld:322977212 Page 43
WARD/Piland 4:00 p.m. 1 . 41. H. Assass. ~~ w+ . . co , 4:25/78s i — fls Short | AFTERNOON SESSION _ 7 (4:07 p.m.) a Mr. Preyer. The Committee will resume. Ga Mr. Phillips, if you will be seated, I recognize Mr. z 3 | Goldsmith. : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Thank you. | Es 7 TESTIMONY OF MR. DAVID PHILLIPS -- Resumed S a. _ Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Phillips, during the afternoon 3 a. recess, have you had the opportunity to read the transcript = ai that was prepared of your testimony before the Committee in : n | November of 1976? | . = Fe i Mr. Phillips. Yes, I have. | , Lt ad H @ : 3 Mr. Goldsmith. And during the afternoon recess, did you | . 2 a at any time discuss your testimony before ‘the Committee | : | this morning with anyone? = i “ | Mr. Phillips. I did not. 7 4 a Mr. Goldsmith. Or contact anyone in any way? | z | Mr. Phillips. I did not.. I did not. . | | = a . Mr. Goldsmith. For background purposes I would like : ag _ fave *| * i -to indicate to you that the allegations or the issues before | this Committee are indéed. very serious ones. The. Committee is trying to. determine. who. killed the President, whether there 2 ‘ was a conspiracy, Specifically, in the area of Mexico City, “ the Committee is trying to determine what Oswald was doing | there, if he was there at all.. The Committee. is also looking | HW 50955 DocId:32277212 Page 44°
42 weer ‘ - H into allegations that Oswald was in some way connected with the U.S. intelligence agency, whether or not Oswald tap ins. the assassination. It is an allegation that has been made, although the Committee is not predisposed in. any way ge was an agent, whether the Agency was in some way involved | | in fact you did sign off on that cable? = 5 : 5 towards resolving that issue. g 7 The specific question of the cable traffic, the trane~- : z , | setipts, “the:tapes, ithe photos bear directly upon these. issues ; 7 Can you see that? : : fa | Mr. Phillips. I understand that. : : 7 ‘Mr. Goldsmith. I would like to raise a couple of | g a | questions with you pertaining to your testimony this morning. & : if First, do you recall whether or not you actually signed : 5 al off on the cable of October 8th from Mexico City Station to : = | CIA headquarters? | 5 6 Mr. Phillips. I believe now that I did not since I : . 7 | saw a copy of the cable, which I believe is the one you are | : 7 referring to, and I did not see my signature on it. ! ( 2 a Mr. Goldsmith. But would you concede that. a fair reading é 20 | of the record of your testimony in November would suggest that i _ Mr. Phillips.- That either I signed off on it or certainly was aware of its going, yes. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. Based upon the transcripts that we 432 ae reviewed this morning, I think if we were to review each one. 50955 Docld: 32277212 Page 440
43 oF it would be possible ‘to establish that Oswald visited the | | I - | ' J five times. We could go through. each one if you would Cuban embassy and Russian embassy or consulates a total of { be like but are you willing to accept my word for that? 2 7 Mr. Phillips. Certainly: | Fs | Mr. Goldsmith. In light of the fact that Oswald | 5 7 visited these embassies and consulates a total of five if S z | ames, is there any explanation. for how the Agency failed | 7 3 | to obtain a photograph of him? | | | : 19 Mr. Phillips. First, concerning his visits to the Soviet 2 1 | embassy, until I saw those messages this morning in which. Oswald a was sdyiing I. have paid a visit to your place, I had thought. | rs es : 13 | until this morning that. Oswald never -~ that we didn't have | z 14 any record of the fact that he. actually visited the Soviet | : E 5 | embassy in person, which of course would explain why there , | S i a i. = 1s | was no photograph of him. “hae — r oni The. explanation as far as the Cuban embassy was concerned. : 2 was that there was photographic coverage of the consulateg | aA. | i z 19 | ana as I recall. it, he visited on a Friday when that camera | é 2 was not in -- was. not working. | —_ 2 | The explanation for the following day, the Saturday, would, 2 2 be. that at that. time we didn't photograph. people who went in ap 23 on weekends. Afterwards I think Saturday coverage was instituted 4 | because of the. Oswald thing. Mr. Goldsmith. Okay. - nap ane ooo eye HW 50955 ‘Docld:329277212 Page 46
4 we ag | I don't -- I amsnot sure that your answer was completely | responsive to my question. The first part of your answer was 1 | that until you reviewed the cable traffic or transcripts, you, He 4 were not aware of the visit to: the Soviet embassy. | | 2 | Mr. Phillips. That's correct. I -- | : 5 ‘| ‘Mr. Goldsmith. But that. doesn't indicate, that doesn't ~ S a explain why, if there was surveillance of the Soviet enbassy, e : | Oswald's. picture was not obtained. | : 7 Do you follow what I am saying? 7 : 0 | ‘Mr. Phillips. Yes. The only -- what I. am trying to. = 7 say is that in my mind the only explanation was that he $ 7 indeed did not visit.the Soviet embassy in person. I thought | & : 13 that he did’ not. . - | : 2 ‘A | Mé (Goldsmith. But assuming ‘that he did, as I believe | VE \¢ | the°transcripts demonstrate -- | | : s Mr. Phillips. There. should have. been a picture. | 4 a Mr. Goldsmith. And to your knowledge was there such a : '@| picture? | | : : an Mr. Phillips. No, I never saw a picture of Lee Harvey | 5 | Oswald, and I -- it was my ve have. always believed that. | ye | no picture. of him existed. | 4 Mr. Goldsmith. After the assassination, was. WinnScott : upset about the failure of the photo surveillance units to *4 | obtain photographs of Oswald? i CO ; 23 | Mr. Phillips. I am sure I can say that he was disappointed. t ! i Ht “4 n 4 i Pant oe ross HW 50955 Docld: 32277212 Page 47—
5 45 at Ir don' t recall ~- I don't think that I would Yreeall that he. t> i } was upset. in. the. sense that. he was. berating anyone. or anything}. Mr.. Goldsmith. Did he. discuss it with you at all? che Mr. Phillips. Mm-mm, not that I recall. And I think it would be. unlikely that he would since I was not involved in the mechanical business of that. photography. Mr. Goldsmith. And I believe in your testimony of Oo 20024 (202) 55~2445 November of '76 you indicated. that thé photograph that was Cc “OO obtaindd that. was. mistakenly linked to Oswald was. linked. N.c, car) to him because. had a stranseript before her. : | | [ | | | : ! The transcript. indicated someone was going to the Soviet | ST . a | embassy to obtain. a visa, and. she had a picture of a man i who left. the embassy at about. that. time, okay? Mr. Phillips. Yes, that was my understanding of why is this. message. went out in sort of two. parts. . 7 i . REPORTERS BUTLDING, WASHINGTON, Mr. Goldsmith. Do. you know if the Agency made any s a ou effort to. identify other non-Latins whom it saw either entering | j or leaving the Soviet. or Cuban consulates or embassies? _ . fr : Mr. Phillips. You mean generally or in the specific — 7 3098 Pru STRENT, SoU case of this unidentified. ——. Mr. Goldsmith. In ‘the. specific case of the Oswald. issue, © a a Mr. Phillips. I obviously, I don't know what. might have | é been done at headquarters, and I don't recall specifically Ww tn | of an effort made in Mexico, but answering youx question. in is SEGRE i i ALDER SON SReeoeT NG COMPS sod 3 HW 50955 Docld:32277212 Page 46