HW 54756 1 wir. Esoinosa That Cudoela nad o¢en talking to 2 people; that there waS Z0ing. to ce an ugrising or a 3 something cown in Cuba led by Cubela and a few other 4 who were in the government at the time, or in the ars some reason Cudelas didn't 5 tnat for trust wiliilamson 6 wr, cdornbeck. Caen you identify wiio Williamson 7 Mr. Espinosa. what I nad been led to believe, 8 was nead of the CIA in Soain at the time. 9 mr. rornoeckx. was tnere a reason given to you 10 Cubela did not trust nim? 1 Mr. ESpinosa. Yes. he said to me-that he was 12 first he was an alcoholic and living with this Cuban 13 had taken information from nim, taken files with ner 14 back to Cuoa. 15 Mr. aornoecx. This is information that you hea 16 Mr. Espinosa. This is what they told me; woy & 17 didn't want to speak to Williamson any longer. 18 Mr. Hornbeck. You e@re setting this information 19 Cubela? 20 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. And now much truth is invo 21 tnis I can't say. So that Rolando cidn't want to ta 2 anymore and that I should come over nere as 2 good ¢ 23 anc I said "I am no longer with the CIA," and they 5s 24 want you to get in touch with them and tell them all 25 tr. dornoeck. Now, Aad your original contact i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Docld: 322746514 Page 67 n >{ nn = Non, ATA Some ULB coup or Wes: williamson living -- girl who and went rd? olando frou lved in lk to nim . oe TA oman
3N —] 1 mentioned to you ne thought yo Ou were in the CIA? 2 “ir. Escinosa. Yes. 3 mr. Horncecx. iad ne callec you to come to Paris or you 4. just came to Paris incesendently? 5 Mr. Espinosa. No. It was somebody that if I ever went 6 to Paris I was going to call. 7 Mir. nornbeck. So Paris was entirely your idea? 8 Me. Espinosa. Entirely a pleasure trip. 9 Mr. rornbeck. was there any particular reason way you 10 would spend your own -personal money to nave Cubdela comie to 11 Paris from Spain? - 12 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Still, you know, I tnink $150 or 13 something, for something as important es this, I could send my 14 friend and my country, it wasn't going to make such a big hole 15 in my pocket. 16 Mr, Hornbeck, . Bid Cuoela say anything about any Soviets 7 in Cuoa curing tais conversation? 18 sir. eSpinosa. Ho. They didn't say anything about 19 Soviets in Cuva, Sut Slanco -- I cannot remember his first 20 name; we used to call nim the crazy Glanco -- I met nim end 21 ne was on nis way to Cuda from Prague, Czechoslovakia, and ne 22 was on nis way from Russia to Cuba via Czechoslovakia and 23 Paris and ne was tne one who mentioned about the Russian 24 teconicians; to make sure and to make sure to tell tne CIA } t 25 that if there was zoing to 52 any kind of cao SvWENS y < (@) = (63) oO + (@) “i “a t oS 0a oO ty ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 63
Qn en) 1 tnis operation, they were going to taxe cere of these Russian 2 technicians wno were advisors, or whatever taev were, who were 3 in tneir particular slace. 4 Mr. Horncoeck. All rignt. dow did you know Blanco? 5 Mir. ESpinosa. fT knew him from Cuba. 6 Mir. clornbecx. And was it just coincicence that Elanco 7 was coming through Paris at the same time that you were there? 8 Mr. Espinosa. I don't know. 9 Mr. Hornbeck. dow did he know now to contact you? 10 Mr. Espinosa. Eecause anybody who would cotse to Paris 11 will always contact tnis guy Trasancos; at least this kind of 12 people because we all knew each other from Cuba. 13 Mr. Hornbeck. Had Blanco been with you and Cubdela in 14 activities prior to 1959? 15 Mr. Espinosa, Yes. 16 Mr. Rornoeck., 17 information adout tne Soviet technicians, was there anyone 18 else present during the conversation? 19 Mr. Espinosa. No, it was only he and [. 20 Mr. Hornbeck. were there any conversations between you, 21 Blanco and Robreno in Paris? 22 Mr. Esoinosa. NO. 23 Mr. Hornbeck. And no conversations dDetween you, Blanco, 24 and Trasancos? ; 25 Mr. Espinesa. No. But there were conversations between ; ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 69 ;
oO Mf me. cloragveck Can you tell us what the conversation is? 3 Mir. Espinosa. The one I mentioned voefore, everything 4 that Cubela told me about the CIA and Williamson in Spain ne 5 said to ine in front of Trasancos i) “wir. rorncecx. Is your testimony that there was then an 7 agreement between the tnree of you that Cusela needed to 8 change his Cra contact? 3 mr. Espinosa. I didn't agree to anything. All I saida, 10 was. they landed the story on me in the middle of my Parisian 11 vacation, and because it was Rolando and it was something that 12 I could have some importance or sense in the future, I came 13 over nere and I contacted tnem the best way I could. 14 Mr. Hornbeck. In other words, you were Zoing to be the 18 messenger for the contacts they felt that they didn't have? 16 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, wore or less, that was the idea. 17 Mr. Hornbeck. And you tnen traveled from Paris to New 18 York? 19 Mir. Espinosa. That is right. 20 Mr. Hornbeck, And who pays for your ticket? 21 Mr. Espinosa. If I go to Paris and I live in the States, 22 I nave to nave a round-trip ticket 23 Mr, tornbecx. wnat I am getting at, 30. you understand 24 the purpose of the deposition, we nave to ask as muca cetail 2. as possible, and what I am really getting at is whether or aot ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC,. HW 54756 DocId:32246514 Page 70
—J © 1 tne CIA paid for any part of this oseration 2 Mr. ESsinosa ico. LT went to London and then to Faris \ 3 and tnen to come back to New York 15 later, ana this UJ C) tw ~< u 4 happened when I was there, ana I came back to Hew York on my 5 ticket originally purcnased by me, and I was never refunded by 6 CIA or any other government agency. 7 Io got to New York and I contacted Mr. Cavasantos. 3 Mr. Hornbeck. He was an officer with tne Immigration 9 Service? 10 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 11 Mr. Hornbeck. And you nad some previous relationship; is 12 that true?- 13 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 14 Mr. riornbeck. Can you tell us oriefly what that was? 15 Mir. Espinosa. He lifted two dans against traveling, and 16. all the things tnat I mentioned before. rap) 17 Mr. Horncveck. You first contacted him, and wnat did you 18 tell him? 19 Mr. ™m spinosa. I said, “I nave to contact someone in the 20 CIA, and of course I have no idea now to contact anybody.” 21 So he said, "Gkay." de picked up the telenhone and he 1 office in New York and ne sent me ag] tH 22 called somebody in the F 23 to see this fellow. 24 Mr. Hornoeck. This is first cr w ry Go i cv) 25 Mr. Espinosa. fes. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 71 ;
HW 54756 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 - 25 Docld: 322746514 Page Tf? rr) hr. corabeck. Did you agents come to see you? wir. ESpinosa. I went to the FEI office. Mr. cornbeck. How tiany agents did you talk to? Mr. Espinosa. I talked to one Fellow. Mr. Hornbeck. How much of the Cubela's story that you learned in Paris did you relate to him? Mr. Espinosa. Nothing. Mr. Hornbeck. what dic you tell him, basically? Mr. Espinosa. I told him, I guess he must nave spoken to Cavasantos before, and I said, "Look, I just came from Europe; there is something nappening and I would have to contact someone in the CIA, and I used to work for tiem and [ was involved in the Bay of Pigs. A&nything you want to. check what I am telling you, you can check with tnat." Mr. flornbeck. Did you siention Cubela's name to either Cavasantos or to the rBI? Mr. Espinosa. Maybe; I can't say for sure, but maybe. Mr. Hornbeck. Your dest memory is tnat you cid not discuss mucn of the details? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Hornbeck. At some point were you put in contact with tne CIA? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. aornbeck. Can you tell us where tne meetin ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, °
10 14 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 2] 23 24 25 HW 54756 DoclId: 32246514 this: gart on Said "I a next coup Spain tog I wa New York, a \ 7 ~ washingto time was \ Javits ne got me to come here x 4)) re and get in to Mr. met with mr. Mr. Mr. to. Mr. tnat? Mr. have him it napoen Mr. Page ~~ uy) icular individual? fspinosa. He was 2 very cool, comsosed nan, end ne m g0ing to wasnington and I will contact you in the le of days or three, siayoe, and maycte wea will go to ether or somebody will go with you.” S SO upset ad0ut this that I got a friend of mine in tmrough Senator Javits, to get me a meeting in a mere witn some sub-secretary ofr the Cudan tning, and I-never aeard on: going by, and I told this friend of mine and through and see this guy, and I came I told nim the whole story. And he said, “We will uch with you," and they never did. Hornbeck. Do you have any idea wno it was that you in washington? ESpinosa. Ho. Hornbecx. Cid you ever keep a cGiary or on @ cara? Espinosa. I coula find out eventually if I wanted Hornbeck. Do you tnink that you mignt ce asle to do ESpinosa. Yes. 1 would have to call this guy and call Javits and trace the-thing cack to the time when ed, put IT am sure it can be tracad ‘ dornbdeck. Do you rememoer the ouilding where you ; fay 7 J ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, T4 AR me eR RRNA RE IRI LAP A UII TAAL ON A AAAS A TRAM 228
HW 54756 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 ~ 42 came to in wasnington to sseak with this oarticuler individual? mr. Espinosa. to. Mr. dorndecx. Your best memory is tnat it was some ‘official in the State Department? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, it was some official in the State Departinent; some kind of subd-secreteary or something in charge of Cudan affairs. But I was there and he didn't put me on to some monxey room. 1 know I saw somebody, the right person. Mr. cornbeck. I assume tnat you did wait the two or tnree days in New fork before you. contacted your friend to reach Senator Javits? Mr. Espinosa. . I waited longer tnan that. I waited a couple of weeks and notning happened, and then I got in touch with this guy because I knew ne is very friendly witn Javits anc I said, "I know you neve friends in Washington, and all of tnaat, and there. is something that I have to discuss.” Mr, Hornbeck. Cid you ever think asout cont CIA directly through one ¢. your old contacts? Mr. Espinosa. I never nad any contacts. What contacts? } They are guys living in Miami for two or tnree or four months, and one day tney disappear, and “Freddy Gomez," and vou never See him again, and maybe ne is sent to Guatemala or central Europe, or whatever, and then you see another guy and you ‘don't call tnem. They call you. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC Docld: 322746514 Page 75 2AM 7th STREET SW REPORTERS 2UILDING. WASHINGTON. 0.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
1 mr. nornaceck.— was there any cad feeling between you and 2 tae Agency wnen you terminated your relationsniso with them in 3.1951? 4 rir. eSpinosa. [~ don't Know. From my part it was a lot o> mr. nornceck. You .felt you nad not been treated fairly 7 by the Agency? 8 Mr. Espinosa. tot me. I felt a lot of people got killed 3S for nothing. 10 Mr. mornbeck, All right. After you .came to washington 11 and discussed this particular. situation, wnat was the next 12, thing that you did? 13 Mr. Espinosa. Let me make a parenthesis now. This guy, 14 one of the reasons wnhy I assumed he must have deen from the 16 CIA, is when I touched the thing about George Rooreno, 4 0 iy) is 16 immediately ne said to me, "El Maz tnis Ls like 2a name tnat 17 only people tnat are close to him or that know him very well 18 or from tne Agency would know nis name. 19 Mr. Hornbeck. Could you spell thet? 20° Mr. ESpinosa. M-a-g-a. It is magician in English. And 21 ne didn't have any accent wnen ne said "El Maga.” 22 Mr. Hornbeck. You are aiscussing the conversation with 23 the fellow you assumea to bce from the Agency in New York when ae 24 you first arrived? 25 mir. Espinosa. Yes. And ne was saying to sie, “How much ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DocId: 32246514 Page J6. QTOCST CAs QEDNATERS AHI MING \A/ASHINIGTON MC I9NNF4 (97) RRA-2345
1 do you trust wnat ne saic?™® and I ssid “You know now 22 Ls. 2 And ae. saic, “Yes, I know now he is, Suv the guy Knew tne 4 mr. flornoecx. When you mentioned 2lanco, did ths S indivicual you assumed to have been from the Agency come up 6 with nis nicknaie? 7 Mr. Espinosa. wo. 8 wir. Horabdeck. Did he act as thougn ne knew who you were 9 talking acocut? 10 Mr. Espinosa. ho. 11 . Mrs nHornbeck. Did he ask you for any identifying 12 information about Blanco? 13 Mr. Espinosa. ho. 140 Mr. Hornbecx. During this time then that you were in. 15 Washington in 1965, did you ever contact Mike McLaney to se ; 16 if ne could aelo in.some fasnion? 17 Mr. Espinosa. I woulc have contacted Mike MecLaney to 18 help tie in other things, but not to get ma in contact with 19 CIA. 20 ‘ir. Hornbeck. Did you contact Mike McLaney for any 21 social or personal reasons? he 23 went to Miami, and all of the time I lived in the States 24 avery time I went to Miami contacted Mi} 1 1 25 f contacted him socially to have a drink or go whoring around ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756) DocId:32246514 Page 477.4 street, Sw. AEPORTERS BUILDING: WASHINGTON, 9.C, 20024 (202) 554-2245 | Os w@ ro ~ M @ < Mm -y Ke ce bw (D (13 c ct
10 1 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 Or sometning; nothing to ¢o up to tnat second attemot with the re ct . plane, and tnat was i 03) mr. sicraceck. Did you return.to tiew York then eft ra) + < Q Cc x Washington trip? Spinosa. Yes. 5 Mir. Hornmoeck. Gid you receive any contact from any government agency? ' mr. Espinosa. Ho, “ur. aornoecx. And that includes the FBI? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. dornbecx. So you did not hear from the FBI? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. mornbeck. How long did you stay in New York, if you can estimate? spinosa. I left tew York 57. eo) n j es) ry on tir. Mr. Hornbeck. So you spent the next approximately two and ahnalf years in New York? 1 . ESpinosa. Ho. I would say th o cs cb os qt cr 2 oO < ay) i¥3) - “ Pw ian) oO s fork, oecause tnis was June or duly of 1965, and I left in Maren or Arpil of 1567; so a little bit less than f\ “<< ow a) - Mr. Hornteck. Did you have any contact cirectly or y indirectly witn Cuoela during tne time that yo Cc a rat) + res) ~ sD fe) = York? Mr. Hornoecx, Did you hear from to lanco or Roboreno or ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 73 RAR So RR Re Rt RRR ARMREST RE IRIE CAPR OO AI RPA ON OR AAR A FAND 2tAa Ata