104-10227-10011 A, ue Well, tae cunflrmatton fs that they sent the excouttive letter ((court.deciaton regarding abimony)), The executive Letter ts only one thing: \- ft confirms that vou are pay ing alimony: they can award the altmony. Taney can ferce you to pay even thoush youlare not Utving together, in order .to support a child. Well, I. did sce the executive letter which they sent probably indicating that the marringe was dissolved.,.. If it is dissolved, it is so indicated; {t somet imos: algo happens so that a marriaze te not dissolved, but they pay Nl imony , Woll,. the executive letter indicates if the marriage {8 or is ‘not’. dissolved, a - - oo. a oa, ; eM And they did not five the executive letter....  B, A. I am not talking aboutthe oxécutive letter, “I did not have uny moFe.doguints of any kind, ©! Alright, let us"take n break. oe Fan Se ((A buzzes for the guard)) ((XM == not on tapo)): ..-Now you are saying something else. Earlier you said taat you came to Moscow, were on leave, went to the Baltic area, returned and got a divorce, then nyain went to the Baltic arej, then to Moscow, Now it turns out that you cane to Moscow, remained there all the time until you pot a divorce, and then went to the Baltic. What is the truth: I want to hear this more or less articulately.
104-10227-10011 A. ((Apparently laurhing slinntly)) Articulately w= both court hearings tvok place in 1952, . I do not rewenber the nonth. - ( (Pause) ) Yell, how much tine elapsed between ono court hearing and the othor? I do not. remember, I do not remember. \ ‘ Be twcon the people's court and the city court. I do not Know how long. ae oO How do you\oxplain such a long loave of absunco. My leave wae for two sionths. For what renson,y But, that is according .to regulations... On what basis: It {s countcd this way: one month for travel and one month | leave. Why a month for travel and a month for leave: Look, in the Far East leave is given once in threo years, Yes, one time in three years. Yos, . oo - Please, tell how it is, Well, I say «- for three years; well, alright, I was not there for 20 years.
104-10227-10011 A. Leave of absence ts given preetsely for three years ((Pause}) Well, please... Two months are given; tnas tncluacs travel: .  (CApparently writing)) Two months-leave, with travol. At the end of the third year officers usually receive monetary compensation “= Ono month's pay, for the third year, Wolds, I did not receive. it because r did not’ spend three: | WSSTs there, Woll, ‘why do they give such leave‘ “Because it is a long way to travel. What. oo is it hot known to you that monetary compensation never was paid for Lenve in the Sovitot Arny , and it ive ‘not now: Why are you shuffling in something that ts:not necded: . I am not shuffling in’ anything; I an tellyou you as I know tt, You are always trying to... I am trying to.;:. But. there is no such thing -= they don't give compensation! And they ‘never: paid it, ((Pauee)) If you were an officer, what procedure existed when you were in the Far East for giving officers léaver Once in three years, two months <= including, travel -— and for the third. year spent there, a.month's pay. You do not know. Well, answer this simple question, a leading; one «= how many years ((of service)) gives one the richt to leave when in the Far East, and how many times must you take lIenve tf you are in the Par East. HMcw many years. Just a minute.
104-10227-10011 flow many tines, and when ia leave wiven ¢o an atficer Jae procedure was Like this -=- an officer serving - month's. travel, £f you go by rail. “If you want; you can fo by plane; but you are to t ravel away {rom the Fav Bast, and -how many times aust he spead its leave there ((in the Far Nast))  ¢ (Pa use)) there pets both leave without leaving the Far Kast and Yeave to travel away from tho Far Engst. Who gets leave without leaving, the Far East and who recoives “tt to leave tho arca. Wo never had such a procedure == because none of the fellows would .agreo to spend his leave there: ((Pause)) I know that ‘no one would agree. Everyono would like to travel evory year... No, taney, did not let you: £0; “at was once. in threo years. And you receive... they count” {t ‘this’ “way ‘me one, “month! 8 leave, ‘one 8 s) You got 12-15 days for this, one way to Moscow, And_ back - that ‘amounts to ‘a month. Why a month for travel time? - ( (Pause) ) There is a limit...; Listen to me. . just a minute.. | listen a- after one year... t mean, for three years, you have the right, you go on leave ‘= one time, let us say, to Leningrad, Moscow, Khar: kov, or Kiev -= it is not important. . You are given two.monthas' leave, if you want, you can go by rail == you will spend 25, 26 days travel ing there and back. . | . given orders’ for train travel «- that to what you are entitled. And, for the third year, the fellows receive compensation. There never was any compensation.
104-10227-10011 h, They paid, they provided compensation, * A. Wo will not argue about tuis. When did you arrive in the Far Hast: B, Well, uost likely, in the fall of 1950 -- Approximately at the end of October -- around about then. \ A. Then you were to have leave ‘for 1951: If you were there -- that is, a nonth ((of leave)). B. And for 1952. A. Well, the year 1952 had just began, | ° B. OI did not’ go on leave anymore in 1952, A, Well, where: - . ob : s+ ee Ro In December, you again went on leave. | a , BL. At the very. erid-of December, for.; so.;. for 1953, >. | | - ms : I took loave in January.  - (ee ees a re A. ‘Who gives leave in January: . B. Well, please, the commander of the unit will give Lt with pleasure in January... . . May I smoke: But, here he did not want to let me go on leave; I got help. A. Well, how much time did you spend in Moscow: wen did you come to Moscow on leave ((from the Far Eost)): I came to Moscow shortly before May -< at the very end of April; I took an airplane, ‘I had the entire month of May and June for leave,
104-10227-10011 A, Well, Hay and June. In May, you made the announcenent someshere: and in June, your case was heard in the people's court; to July <= you said, ‘in the sumser time -- you had a hear ing in the city court. When did all of this affatr come to. an end.- With the court’ In Suomer 1952; I do not renember exactly. .- But they could not give you more than two nontis; we can imagine a that for somo reason... In July the. question of the place where I was to serve was decided. The question was’ ‘that they suggested also that. I study .- Then there. was: the question avbout (going to)) Germany. Then,- nore,. “in July, the question of eliminating all of the bases: in Germany was decided. : oo Ce, There remained only the base in Berlin; everyone left. ae, apf’ In what’ month: did you leave Noscow: — - om oF Around August. ‘Well, anyway, how do you eapra tn that at the beginning you told Mr, ‘BAGLEY another story: Well, I tried to remenher! ‘Well, very well, I tried to remember. Tried to remember. how it was. So -- have you now renenabered- ((Pause)) Well, it seems to me that all of this bus (ness with both courts was worked out in the sunuer of 1952, Well, anveay, that kind of procedure exists (2 3G) AOA AS a
104-10227-10011 AL They niway u arly you, Then, fora rery Leenan, the date ‘ai iiys $f put in. Here in the. work conpleted, from the ber ination, tncluding military sorvlee, Likewine, the date, nonth and year, (8s written. in =< entered on duty and left;. the position with the orjranizntion or institution is Indicated, The location ~~ overy thing ~- ig asked tn detail. What languages do you know. Ovor-all torm of servico in tho Army. ~ ((Ete. =- A continues. the list of questions Included An the form)) B. All of. these questions wero in the ques tLonnatre;. I complete the answers to all of those questions: but I ‘did not. fil out ‘this questionnatro, _ This Listote, on nysolt -- r did” not t comploto it. A. That its ‘bad, "ALS. Most of these questions are in the" ‘Nakates 7 ‘told you, abou, this yy 5 -onrlier. a _ . And there were no objections. 7 But this Listok is only on’ four pages, | RB, And, I think, the KGB docs not have this. A, ((Pause)) Well, I seo that you do.not -= how do they say. As you said, in regard to the ARIDIAN Case ~= you do not look too good; this is also the case with regard to ((your statenents)) on your first marriage, your first divorce, if not worse than in the ABIDIAN Case. ((Pause)) Do you agree with this or not ((Pause)) Well, what.
104-10227-10011 ih, Complotely. {never set for myself the atu cto renmenber when f fot a divorcee, to renicnbeor how, to renemaber what bind of paper I wrote. A. hot fur that alone m= Aman must renenber where ne served; you uy not even know this. vou do not even know what newspaper was there «= or tn wilch oblast Sovetsiaya Gavan’ belonis. You do not know the siuplest thing —_ tho difference between an oblast and a ray, How can this be explainod B. ot do not know how to explain. Then, I do not know whint you studied in the Institute of International itelations. You had: such scicntific wonders there, professors, including academictay one of thom tn reorraphy, . — ; ae . oe B, . BARANSICIY, A. ((Pause)) Toll..me -bricfly ‘how did you becone acquainted with your second wife, and how did you cowe to get married, and, where.) “In the borinning of 1953, in Méscow, “in January-February, when the - 3 question about me had been resolved, I was vacationing -- I went for a week or two or one and a half to various holiday houses (Dom otdy!:ha) around Hoscow. oy I was at Sochi; I rested at the Gertsen Sanitorius, where I becane acquainted with ny wife, oo a A. Well, when'did you decide to get married. . Well, approxinately when «= in February, in January’. ... B. In Felsruary. _SERRET-
104-10227-10011 WV Th February . Well, wien was the decision made to it soarrtad oJ Woll, £ dated her after that. , : Vie talked about marrilare. A. Wall, you talied aleut narriace, and you dec lded to set marrtea, gO. B, Yes, but I cannot tell you wien we decided to ret enredeu, A. ‘Mhony B, Woll, at the beginning of 1953. °° | 'Offictally, officially, wo registered {n June. “A, ‘Well, why did you: choose June, instead of another. month. eS wat was the basis for this -- why. was 1t not in Hay or July, but rin Juno: . , Waat.... B. She, well, when we met in February, she still was in.... ae I was in Kubinka not for long == for a week, or two; she still was _ u a there in March. "I went to see her several. times in March, a "se . pe A, Well, you saw her in March, in March... you saw her..,. Tie fe ie eet a Ty if ¥; ‘ae! B, Wo even were dating in April. Well, I thought first I would settle the natter of ny work; I would begin wor; then everything could be done officially. I besan work, TENS et Fieger Up th a .((Pause)) Well, it is difficult for me to say why we registered precisely in June and not in May. ea See Ye Hey A. When did you register. Ht a ee oo = 8s
104-10227-10011 “BL. On -the 27th of June. A. On the 27th of June, Way on the 27th of June. By Tis is the date that was destcnated by ZAGS. A. Well, in wat ZAGS was this. B. ‘This was at the ZAGS at her place of residence; she lived on ‘Sorat inev ten Street, in Building #2, the seventh entrance, A, ((Repeats address; (then:)) flow many buildings are there on Serafinovich Street. B. It is a very short street; it begins at the DEMEEE there are large 2 stone buildings, and here, as the continuation of Saraf imov tet’ Street is Bol’ shaya Polyanka , . - a ce flere, in fact, is. one bulldane, on. the right. -— Government | Building. But, en On the lett s side,” a | sna. building, | near. the bridge. A, iat ‘vs your address on cukieinaye Ser B. porvaya Meshchanskaya Street, Building #62/64, _ .. Al! #62/64; apartnent, B. It Seens it was #74, A, ‘74; and on Serafimovich Street, on which floor did your wife live’ B. On the 7th floor, also; Apartment #140, A. Then it also was the 7th entrance. B. No; the 7th entrance.,.
104-10227-10011 A, A. On Seia flowy ten Street, RB Bufldines #2, : A. Seventh entrance, seventh floor, the apartient, iB, #140, ‘A, And here, the address on Meshchanskaya Street was. 162/67. B. . 64, A. 64; Apartment ata B, Apartment #74, yes. A, Arid on. Gor'kiy Street, vist was the address? . B. ullding #9; apartiont #43, : ; et Roos of Building #9: ° | B. The Eued oor, a : A. ‘Third eal apartment wae, 743, And what was the address on Granevatty Strate On Granovskiy Street, Building #3, — Building #3, and the ?loor: . . . Well, you know, there is a seni-basement; there lived the servants
104-10227-10011 We came in on the 27th = ZAGS..- | and muards; it {s considered the first floor; you went up one flight of stairs. — The first floor. “apartment. .. The firs t floor; I titink it was #60, Well, very well; anyway, why was the date chosen. “Well, the date was not chosen by us, You understand; you come in... when we submitted the. statonent, they gave us two “woukis -- it 18 some kind of now regulation . -- two woeks. _ So, that peoplo can “think about it, beediuse thoy told you, this is aR Seasiaus step, ‘one has. to think about,. weigh the natter, e's ‘And they: Sok the date of 27 June for us. ® rhe On the 27th of. June; what is the process for rogistration: ‘There was'a small’ room; thore were several. rooms; in one room birth certificates are ‘issued, and certificates on death; and in the other roon, you registor for marriage. q ‘((Laughs)) Perhaps you could even get a death certificate at the — sane time. Well, it was fuany, really == such an importaat date; all of this tosether. ifow did you answer the question of whether you were married before? “Yes, I was". What docunents did you subait ((to show) ) that you were divorced.
104-10227-10011 I do not remeber; I Lain that Todatd not present any document. Iosimply lnudteated that Fohad been dtvoreed, I was asked Lf fo had been married; T said, "yes, [ had been’, Itow innny t lace." . | "Only onee”™, \ “Divorced. " "Yos." "When: ' ' in los]er, ((That was)) all. A. Well, they cannot just rojister you; they do not tate your word, It is not dono that way in tho Sovict Union. 3 | - . B. ‘They, they havo in’uind these two weeks; . they prohbahly do sonething "during tho two weeks.. ((XG; A and.B sivenic at tie She tine)) Well, I do not know, but 1 do not ronenber any kind of a docimént, A.- Thoy make a‘cheek at ones), B. But I do Hob, Penenhawy any. kiud of a document. A, Taey maite ono immediately, right there. B. Right thore, there were those questions. A, Well, the question is asi«ed: "Were you married beforad: " B. Yes, I was. A. How did it end... how many tincs. B. One time.
104-10227-10011 “ Aw Tlow UG Che mare tase ond B. Towas diverced tn 1052 A. So es they have’ to nave sone ta tug to contire (this, “"It is hetter (Cfor “AGS )) that DT write this. down" ((A refers: to preparation of documentary confirmation beforehand) ) You understand, : -. B, voll, “I will be hold answerable in Accordance with law, I am ei responsible = ‘it I ‘lito I am liable to ‘Prosecution; I will be- prosecuted 1£ 0. lb, te 1 Bay. that I was not marricd, - A, You yourself know, if people did not lie, it would not ho necessary E = I i i ? ‘ ? : ; to issue Laws; thoy would not be nooded , jor] That is true; and if I lie, I must answer for it. "se _ A. Not only in the Soviet Union, Thoro aro ) thousands of People, WhO B. If he 1s caught in this, fid will be tried for it, ne A. Voll, they prosecuto; they forco payment of Alimony , cand s0-forth | uspecially, if thore aro ) children CA talks about sone divorce procedures) ) mit it is necessary to have somo tind of docmment ((to show)) that you really are divorced. It is not cnourh to sry, "Yes, I WAS married aad I pot divoreed in such-and-such a nonth", B. I do not remenber, I do not reneaber, I do aot remember, I do not renenber, A, Well, if you did not present any documents. ... .
104-10227-10011 A, Be Well, Lo dio not remeaber. »o Men you were divorced, ~Toam petting at the fact tint there must be they could not resister you, some thins, [I tell you [ do not remember that t showed a docunent, Swe Tho only document Thad was the officer's identification, tn which the stanp was. placed, iid I had turned it over ((to the XGnp)), You time, I do not remember hav tny: presented. any kind. not .ronember, Well, 1. wiL ‘apis you again == what docuncnt you divorced your first wito: I did not pet any. document execpt the “AGS “Adentitteation, That isn't enough. 4 On the basis of the court decision of which they put a stamp in ny identification. We have alrcady come to the concluston that sent to the local rayon “AGS for. your place And I was given by the court a paper; according to one, I nad paid the court fees; prescated to tie “AGS, The court fee was paid on the spot. ve had not had the officer's 8 identification for a long time, “You were—niready work tnt in KGB, and you had not had it for a lony of document, no; I do | did you recotve when stamp in my officer's -*. .. Thoy could put this in for yotr later on the basis. of sonie document, the city court ave me, tne, court decision ia of residence, they even gave me two of them -- and the other was to be
104-10227-10011 B. ‘The: two of us went; Innedintely after the. ZAGS, we went to Sera£fimovich Stroot,. On the ossis of these Perper, The court fees ave not prid on the sset, but are prtd into the savings bank or the local penk. To qust esanot {i out what if'nd of docununt, yOu veeelved; and you do not how... I do not renomber; I -do not renonher; no, no, x , Do you renember who was your witness when you went to ZAGS to ; ¥ ¥y i ’ ' rerister. there” were no friends; thore was no one with us, wd ‘| ; "ell, who was the first on to congratulate you on your nary lace, | . i - ; . ; The wonan who registered us; we recistored,.., I-mean, your relatives; where did you co right after you loft. the ZAGS--. “and then ‘ wo went to the dacha; and that very day at the dacha ‘ve had the . wedding... Our parents had congratulated us when we made the Announcement, Then, on that day, at the dacha, you had the wedding, on 27 Juney ((Speaks with uncertainty)) Yes, Did you invite KORULOV: ((Pause; then speaks with uncertainty)) No. Why not: He had recommended you for work; ((you were)) good friends, i |
104-10227-10011 “4 tr. A, AQ Wo bnuvited close friend, Well, why did you not tavfte sOTULGY. Ieonmvirc wag a clocy feflend, how he was not earlier, hoa wan, He wags not a close friend, . There were only closo ae tendgs I said, Was VAKILRUSIEV thero: | ” -No,. ‘ . But uinese was ho at this. tine, .I do not know, & He. algo was a good friend, . _I knew him-at the Institute. “thoso who wero close frionds", | He was an acquaintance; he was a friend, yes. And ‘our dachas were next to cach other in Arkhangel'skoye when I studied at -the Institute. What is tnteresting around Arkhangel'skoye, Near Moscow, thero are two Arkhangel'skoyes, T an speaking about the place where your dacha wus , Next to the sanatorium for cenerals, this is the former YUSUPOV Palace, And what else. PRU repre pera cig uithceen vdatiinas ccc cm.