9 the Internal Revenue Service stated that their Intelligence|- Division provided six staff years of:support. I do nor know - ‘what that figure means. But what I am pointing out is, this: is) wht was involved in the Warren Commission investigation. Bees We are ‘talking here of an investigation. that is. 8 “not covering just that one assassination, but covering eo. oo So. that when I talk, as I am going to talk to ) you about ‘a staff need of 170, one~seven-zero, while that may sound co ‘the experienced people around Capitol Hill and the - people inf “the Congress of the United States as a big staff, “the determi- | ‘nation of big staff is only made on the basis: “welt, itis |- “Larger than what staffs other congressional committees have. _ But I urge this committee not to evaluate it on that, a || basis, but to evaluate it in terms of the job to be done, ne, the need that exists. | | et: me say again, 1 do not want to Meer erusating mpl “you do not know me. I am not. giving a figure that ‘is. a | padded figure, I am not playing the game of saying, “Here : is half» 9 “again what I need," going on the assumption that it will’ be. cut somewhat and. then I am ending up with what I. really need. | Now I consider, again, my function to effectively be : your counsel, not to play that kind of game, but. to lay out precisely what is the need. And I will, as J ‘say, get mee ibreakdown of what one-seven-zero means. But compare. 170° a with what existed with just the Warren. Commission and \ we have Docld: 32266815 -
his ‘superior. “the task not only of reviewing the work that they did, put | it has come to the fore, and again we have threshold dvéaa- “of inquiry in the book that we have for you here, in the : Anvestigation and assassination of President Kennedy. But it has come to the fore, for example, that there was a , deserection: of a document, at least, by an FBI agent, “and 1 let ‘me e say, ‘even there, I am advised that the Department of Justice may shortly be prosecuting that FBI agent for’ perjury, “alehough hie is interesting to note what that FBI agent said was that © & bis destruction of a particular document relevant: in the Kennedy assassination was based upon orders . that he got from. ved  Dthe question in my mind is the investigator here, or do Jace » want to be locked in by someone who is charged. with. perjury before we have had even an opportunity to be inter- “viewing him. Tt has also come to the fore at this time that the whole area of our government's attempts to assassinate foreign ‘leaders, particularly Castro, was an area that ‘was. nde | made’. || ovate to the Warren Commission.. So again we are ‘eng - not only of an | investigation that goes into what had been done, but into many, many areas in terms of area ‘that has ‘come to the public attention since, which I he represents some of the reasons that _ there is a public disquiet. I ae is. interesting, and we, ‘have it. in our report to, you,
39" - when Patty Hearst disappeared, was kidnapped, with all due respect to the Hearsts, as compared with the magnitude of | || an. investigation as to whether or not other people are Anvolved in the assassination of a president, where that was (a civil rights thing, but in théee months ' investigation by. | ene 1 FBI in the kidnapping of Patty Hearst, ‘the FBI alone Snot ‘talking about state agencies, spent $2. 6 million. “That as [a figure we got from the FBI. og Now when. we are talking about what is necessary in an ae 7 nvestigation, L get back, you do not just compare. ate “What - ‘does ‘the ps I am sorry I am not that familiar with’ conpreretonn || connittees a what does the Agriculture Committee have on mits | staff? That cannot be the approach here.. It. has to be on ym the | Job to be done and ‘the need. ee Pe We have other, documentation in our reports such as * Just “the House Impeachment Committee, it had a staff of 14 - neubers There was not the need, not investigating ee ‘complexities and the mass of material and the areas Aavolved | “and the travel involved which is called for. heze ik that oS “committee. That exceeds what I am asking this committee to” tire its support for in terms of a staff. a | | As I say to you, frankly each time I have: said this I ony _ “end u uP really feeling when I am talking about. a staff of 170 it. is being such a minimal figure that when somebody, reacts” ee and thinks, "Oh,. that is too much", you cannot do this job. |“ Docld: 32266815. -
40° “And I would Say to you, and I mean it, every bone of sincerity, do not tarnish this House of Representatives or yourself by. commencing an investigation with not the facilities: to” do a ‘thorough Job and you are not going to be able to do. it. with less then the minimum ‘figure I am talking. about. Pret me show you how that breaks down and,. el: as mind what I have been talking about here, “just think how _ || minima it is. in each of these two investigations I am talking about oe and we have a chart on the last page of the booklet that ‘is t before you a of the two investigative teams, “basically Kennedy and King. I am talking about 15 investigators on || each, attorneys that is, and 25 investigators, That is 40. “people on each, | | if anyone is going to think that that: is. too : mammoth : vas size “investigative force, they just, you know, pe Bouse | oe _ Forty people, getting into the complexities of each of. these, is as minimal a squad as “you can hope’ to have. oe “Right there then, between 40 and 40, that is 80 ) people, 2 “elahe there. - Would you really think you can do it on less? Do 8 not attempt it. I am not talking about clerical. - | Let me also say this, from the investigative ‘gaat! to, ae thorough job does not mean merely going to some witness and | Saying. to him "Come. before our - subcommittee “Or: on 7
“committee and relate what you have to say."" That is not the way, in my opinion, you investigate. To investigate means “field interviews, it means being able to analyze what. this || witness is saying, to be able to then check. the areas of ° | corroboration or the areas to disprove what he ‘is “saying. G ‘is only when that information has been tested sie “there is _then, in that instance, reason to then bring him oes ]| ana ns have him under oath, let! S Say, before a ‘committee Or ra | subcommittee. 2 - There is another way | in which the committee aids in the = “investigation, Obviously, when we talk to people they do not | have to talk to us; they can tell us to go. Jump in “the lake. It is important to be able to then say, "Well, you. do ‘not want ef to talk to us, fine, we are > subpenaing you before ‘a “subeom- | ‘mittee of the Congress. of. ‘the United States, "and that ia where: |_ “you, are going to testify." “So it is a device to: ‘be able to use in. the investigacive | process; hopefully along the line as information is” developed to be able, perhaps, to also use the terms "public heat} ings" ig what is developed is developable and does not theart the. ‘continuing investigation and is in the area that ought tog be - imparted publicly. to put people on a polygraph if they would. agree to do it, 1 do not happen to: think: the Polygraph. is gospel. 1 would Dockd:32266815' -|Page. 21. But you need to have, to do an investigation, the sbaiey |
Docla: 32266815. ||P use of a polygraph with that young ‘lady, were able ‘to, get hate t to see its use in court speaking as a prosecutor. Bus as an investigative tool, and also with the stress evaluator, | because some people will not agree to go on the polygraph | but, you can be recording what they are telling you and you. can run it through the stress: evalu” tor. These are very, very helpful investigative tools. D If you will permit me “to digress here a moment, in the a Yablonst murder case, with the FBI, we had a woman who was a conduit, she + was. not the initiator of the’ murders, ‘she was. not down with the trigger people; we got her to: ce on a lie detector test; with an experienced. polygraph ‘operator | [ene responses that the subject gives are "unimportant. Sas ‘a matter of fact, the subject can remain mute, , because what =| ‘you get is the emotional response. The answer is éaningless. With the expert polygraph people we not only, by the out of her information =) 3 not that she was. saying it at first MM: 7 blush, it was: Finding out really what she was withholding a and | a . good Operator is not confined merely to. just the answer , mo ati! he c¢ can ferret into what it is you are withholding from | us. if. he asks his questions well. We were able to ascertain 1 that : this young lady's own father was the one who recruited her pe in ‘the assassination of Re Yablonsigf, We were able - ‘to | eseercain that she in turn ‘recruited then her husband. sae were able to ascertain locations that the conspirators met.
We were able even to ascertain the dates, the motels, not. on the basis of what she was volunteering, but pinpointing it. in questions. Ws. what I am saying to you is, to do a thorough investi- gation, this area, a polygraph- stress evaluator unit again is. necessary as is on my original chart, to be available to each of || o£. the investigative teams when they have a need, “when “they can put someone on the polygraph or run them through: the a stress evaluator to be able to call them there. “Again, you || are not talking about clerical People. I must address myself now to one other major area on Wan - organizational chart here, | ; Paget ine Speaking as a prosecutor and as a lawyer, I have found ~~ “that when I have two secretaries, items get filed for me in 3 || about 22 different fashions , and the way in which one secre ‘tary, the heading she files something under; we never remember. “later | when we want the documents and I end up finding there ae as something in one file that is relevant to something 3 in’ a another file and we, unfortunately, find it out after the fact. It is necessary in an operation of this magnitude, with, the documents that we are talking about oe and I will use, for. example, just the King plea of guilty ca that any document 3 || chat we obtain, we are being inundated by people sending \ us| oe information now, but there is a need to get, for. example in. the Kennedy case, access to files, “information; in ‘thes
"| King case the investigation, the court records; these should ‘hot come to individuals on the staff, they will get lost. It is necessary to have a document control unit so anything : || that comes in, addressed to me, addressed to anyone else on ‘the stafe, it does not come to us; if it does te MATT sever ‘be correlated or used. It is necessary to have an. operation here that these items that come in must come to a central document unit, which must note, obviously, the date of receipt, they must separate out in its initial ‘evaluation, | femeey on the one hand, King on the other. DP mere has to be a research group to aig that document, not only for purposes of a master filing of, the document, but | || cox purposes of cross- ~references, knowing where: thEt is we || be listed for filing purposes, : Again, that is a small part of it. This docunént x may. refer to six different people. We have to be able “to “exon reference that to what we already have in. That guilty plea of Ray's must be cross- referenced to what we already” have in, so that the use of the name. Bridgman Jee us use of the aS name. Sneed, the use of the name Galt, so that. when we have a ‘eine: on those it is cross-referenced to everything else hat exists. | a ‘This is a mammoth task for it to be handled properly. Not ‘only cross- referencing things as it now. appears, but the documents that 1 we already have in “have to now be Tecross-
| references so that they show the later documents that “cone in. Binen you realize that we are talking just in the ‘Kennedy case of tens and tens and tens of thousands of documents, ae ‘literally, the size of this area just bespeaks itself withoug “further elaboration. as a matter of fact, I submit that what. we do need here, not only is this research staff, the document control unde, but we will need, as I think they used in either the 7 impeachment staff or the Watergate investigation, we. ought: to use in combination here, not intead of because Tt do. not. ‘Like to give up thinking power by- people, but in addition r ‘think. we ought to have and use a computer to aid us in this “reorodent “peferencing problem. . What does this unit. do when they finish? That document that. came in, tet’ Ss _ say addressed to me, is not going. fo go iahe into that file and sit there; it has to get aie will ‘not. do any good if it came in today and it asf to m me a month | from now. It has to be a unit that can operate and. has a. sufficient staff so if it comes in today, this cxoss- referencing} ‘documenting is fast enough so that document gets “t6- i me: that ie same day. I mean you need that for this investigation. | You are going to do this with three file clerks, “you” sictn to do “it: with six. People? To say it is to. oe out that you need to have an adequate staff. a What else do I envision here? Make no mistake about it, — ; DacTds 32266815 —
stand constitutional attack in the court. Docid:32266815 7 ‘King. o || stafe, some investigator ‘there preparing a subpfena and he Boe yf ee do it in some, perhaps, poor fashion. ree a subpfena prepared, it is not done on a hit- -or-miss basis, “ is “done uniformly | on a basis that we know will withstand rea ff attack. 48 gg Py staff so that the resolution recreating this committee in” a og Bee any idea that I am just trying to pad 2 a big thing. IT am. talking about a staff of four lawyers and a chief deputy, _ | five people. 46 ave. _ oe at least in my own view, there f going to be many legal -hurdles thrown at this investigation, raising broad, in my opinion, constitutional questions, going into the power of. 1 || subpoena, contempt power of the Congress. There is going to. be a constitutional question vgaised as to the power of Congress to. be investigating here at all, particularly in “the case of Due need a legal staff to aid 1. you know, “when we need. cubpffnas issued, for example, I do not want the investigative. We We want one legal unit, so when the investigators need we have some legal experts who are preparing them for. each one of our needs; They just say prepare a subpgena and it’ I submit one of the things we need now is _research - the forthcoming Congress is appropriately bottomed to, with- What kind of staff am. I talking about? Again, do not :
a7 Y mother area, because it cannot be ignored; security is a problem, from a twofold standpoint: One, my own concepts as to what is done when we are professionals trying to do job, not having leaks. our’ own investigative effort must have adequate security. Tt will not do me any good, for example, if, as I just happened to t a ‘in. a matter I will raise with you shortly A we sent somes body out to Denver to interview somebody; it would not do the an “investigation any good if there are leaks of that information 7 or, “when we get reports back, all of a sudden they « are ay “appearing in the Nashington Post or any other news media. “They” have to be on the basis of our own security, oe | In addition, we obviously a are going to be going into ‘deel with branches of: the Feecutive Branch of government en ‘that are “security problems. I have taken up,- as I say, with “e216 the CIA and representatives of the Department of. Justice my. ow views: in terms of our right ‘to. have access and their sniaase 18 ‘has been | pretty much along the same line, of a a willingness 9: tog grant access, stating that there may be some individual 20 situations which they would like x they do not want to oo ae chat a ‘they refuse to turn those matters over, but they would dhe | rather. take them up on a case-by-case basis, whether ‘they feel, that the disclosure of the identity < or the disclosure of the means of securing the information may present | a “danger a in: terms of an- ongoing matter. ‘DocId: 32266814 ‘P:
48 Per, suffice it to say, I have no desire just ‘to make a big point, md I am perfectly happy that we proceed on a «|| Professional basis and take those matters ‘up on a case- ~by- case basis. a Obviously, for example, if there is a document that they have a name blanked out, or the means by which: ‘the ‘information | was secured and it says in that document that it. was. sunshiny~ | ‘in Houston or in Dallas on a certain day, qT. have no 0 desire if co get a into a demand that "Oh, I have to know who. that de | and the means by which you. got it. " | But, on the other hand, -let's suppose there should be a. =|) document where there is a Statement, the name is omitted Il ana the means by which the information is ‘obtained, vin: which vo “soméone is ‘saying that they were present at a “meeting. and "Hl they heatd, let's say, an assassination | plan of President oo Kennedy being discussed; ‘then that would be the other side of ‘the line. | 2 ves: on a case-by- case basis I think there would have | “to be a demand and a fight to get that information. Ap : So we “need to have = our own security operation, "Again oe, being perfectly blunt with this committee, I ‘think that a a previ] ous. committee of the Congress of the United States, ‘by | : virtue of what appeared to be leaks of information, ee harmed ‘the area of inquiry but, from my own point of view, “harmed just the standing and the stature of ‘the Congress ‘of
49" the United States, G I think that everything that this committee and. this ‘pease does is going to be subject, in years to come , to “searching inquiry, and it ought to be. And I repeat, Tt ro want | this staff and I urge this staff to think of it in that. sense, and to have it done in that dedicated professional” manner, We need, therefore a security unit to assure ‘the. agencies | of of the Arocutive eanch + that, yes, we have proper. security and "control for our own area as well. i. have in that document that is before you further layouts, because up to this point I have not yet talked about _ aa secretaries, I have not. talked about just some of the. other, || supportive things. So that this figure of. 170. is oma as a ah matter of fact, I really do believe as you listen to me. ‘the question really ought to be in your mind: Can you do this ‘kind of a job with even 170? ae am stating that, yes, we can attempt to do it, but. do~ not cut it below that because, if you cut it vets cat, ge are just making it impossible, ee coe We have felt a desire to present to you oe because in my view, when we talk about these investigations we ought. to. start! 3 with what we are talking about, the two murders, It. was” raised earlier: Why have two subcommittees? IT hope. rT have at least. made ny Presentation in any manner of some effectivenes
~ 50 that there is a recognition that we ought to proceed on both | and it would facilitate the investigation if there was a subcommittee that was really staying on top of Kennedy, if there is another subcommittee staying on top of King. | Frou, what I also urge, md I have it in our report, ae ‘think it important, however, that the entire committee be kept advised. I do not think a the question was raised being on the subcommittee as to what one does that Limit in ‘terms | ‘of the other? It ought not to. What I would urge is that, there should bea meeting of the full committee, “I would say, at teast a minimum of once a month, where we can be. brought 2 pee to date so that the subcommittee in one is. brought up to date as to what is happening in the other. L think it important that it be. a team concept; nothing political about this. Tt is an attempt to find out whether or not there were other participants, who are the ‘participants in two murders. What else do I urge on you? I have sent to each of “you, and t thank Mr. Devine who initiated the request, and L really think it was a failing on my part not. getting | it: through even before the initiation of the request #, but T have sent, of those || to whom commitments: have been made to bring on the ‘stafé, ‘resumes and the positions of the people so far employed. - Obviously, within the > budget that presently exists, oe os “Doeha:32266015 |[Page 30. that have presently been employed or chose |
cannot be recruiting the kind of staff to be doing’ this job. ea, What I have been seeking to do is to recruit the people at ae the, ‘top who are going to help guide these investigations, | the. deputy chief counsel for example, in Kennedy and in ‘King. | Pte reason.in my mind t I happen to be very much inter- ested in a team effort to get a good job done, I do not want to just recruit a staff and then bring in a deputy chief - ‘counsel. I would rather, with the wealth. of talent that is || evattabie, oe with, me in picking the team that is going to work with them. ~ Now it may not appear to you. gentlemen from reading we those. resumes, but let me assure each one of you, again in 2 || terns | of getting to know me, of the people employed, not Ob || one vepresents anybody that I knew before I took this | position. 2 have been in homicide work but af I have had contacts in. Philadelphia. I have not looked upon this as just wetting friends or people ‘that I knew on board, I have actively sought to recruit on a national base people that I thought could be the cream-of- the- “Crop: talent ‘to do a thorough professional job. That is what I am. secking fe. do here. “As you look at these resumes, I do want to say, T do not know one of them, that not only, upon interviewing them did 1 make the decision, but I made requests, I - suppose, to Prosecutors , other People ~ Doc Id: 32266815 j| Pac They are people that I have, interviewed. |, have those people on board and have them parciespate |
<j around the country to get evaluations of them. That is what" |] tam seeking to do. Hopefully, if this committee will accept ny recommendation as to what I say is a minimal kind of 4 staff, what I will then do is go on with the planning, the ‘filling in of the detail of the actual number of. People, in documents, in research, and be able to come back to “you at your next meeting with whe Ct that total budget requirement is. Pros know, salaries is s just a small part. of this thing. || We are not dealing with a matter tha't is just here in Washington. As I say, ‘I sent out a team to Denver | in ae matter I will take up in a moment; just to do that. cost us" } 000, | to be going out interviewing, interrogating. lf this committee through its subcommittees must have hearings in various parts of the country, just the travel expenses, the investigative expenses, are a tremendous part ofa the budget which have ‘to be included in a request for. | appropriation. - What I would hope is that if this committee approves in- {| concept. what I have said, that I be directed to. submit to. ‘you by the time of the next meeting the detailed, eatyy, appropriation request that is required to do ‘this Job. | Let. me, ending it here, really, point out again ‘the detail that Ais necessary, I start from scratch in both of these homicides, ol assure you, _you are not: dealing with someone. who has Docld: 32266815 || Page 32 -
53 _ J} preconceptions or opinions. I probably know less, or knew ‘Less ‘about both of these assassinations than just about anybody |, “else in the country when I first took this position. rT found | ove in looking over the film you are about to see. 7 something . “7 that I had not even known, for example, in the past ae ‘that « at the time a photograph was taken by the Associated - | || Press| of President Kennedy being shot, the Photograph taken ‘from the front of his car going back, that that photograph shows the doorway of the book depository ; in Dallas, and’ “standing in that doorway there is a person that, when Es sot | at him appears or looks like Oswald. And this JL, and Tt am” 4. not saying anything that is new f this was brought. to ‘the - A |} ‘attention of the Warren Commission. The ee an determined that that, in fact, was not Oswald. ee F obviously, if it was Oswald and he is standing din the “16 — dooruay at the moment President Kennedy is assassinated, you “can 4 imagine what questions that raised. — They determined, and it is in their report, no, that was ‘not Oswald, it was another individual named Lovelady, ee || ats, worked at the Dallas book depository, who did bear me 1 |] amazing resemblance to Oswald. And Lovelady looked at that oe “photograph for the Warren Commission and said yes, ‘that is hin. . As a result of Looking at some of the film that. you, I are about to, see, it ‘turns out | tha” $: other film was. ‘taken wef Docld: 32266815 ||E
well, = _——~ Pf on ) sails, “pome other filmy, effie minutes later, I am told A again this has to be documented and examined. In the additional “£ilm which was taken, there is a picture of a person who, 4]] as you look at him, looks kind of bearded who has, to say ome least, a couple of days' growth of beard. | I was’ advised by the. person who is exhibiting the film that in that : éxhibitor’ s opinion this bearded individual in ees 8 || tovelady. | | S Well, obviously, if Lovelady has a beard, and as you can see in the picture of the person that appears to be Oswald, "jj it is of someone who is clean-shaven, it raises questions in. “y2'|f ay ming, can it be? What about it? > | 43 |{foe course, the first thing to find out is, is. this apparently oa] bearded person Lovelady. If he is not, then that. avenue is Hf not. an avenue of immediate™ investigation. ‘Subsequently, we oo will get into. that as well, a In addition, this: bearded person is wearing a certain plaid shirt, black, red, it stands out, you will see it. in: “the picture. I dispatched, as a result of that ‘I: ‘sent, ae ; || people 4. we found out where Lovelady was. ‘The last he vas “known was in Dallas. We traced him to Denver. . iT sent out ; ‘some people to Denver to interview Lovelady. And TLovelady. “was shown this additional film, the new film, if I can. ‘call. fa og || it that. sure enough, Lovelady and his wife both see de and “say, "Yes, that is me."!' And his wife goes on to say that.» Docld: 32266815 {Page.
|| Lovelady hates to shave, she always has to be on him to ‘Shave, and so forth. And Lovelady said WYow WwW, you are the ae nd sehen I.was -_ _ ma shown that original picture where I said the Toak- alike. of. we. Oswald was me, nobody asked me, really, wha t jackst or what “7 |e ane out my app@arance, S. GW Now, do not misunderstand, I happen to be a big believer shirt I wore that day or anything, “ab, that t to be thorough and detailed # and [I am not. saying. ‘from’. cra this that in fact that is still a different | person ‘het me : . person of the look-alike of Oswald who was photographed. What a “L am now doing, one of the things I am going to ask, “we: oe pte: subpgena the Associated: Press negative, 1a the original - || negative that they have, and we want to arrange ‘to have this Photograph of what appears to be the look- alike of Oswald . 1S | stom up. “Obviously we want to see what kind of shirt. was being worn, we want to see + he could still be the same. “person oe and the beard may yet be in that picture, although it does Jf not appear to be at the initial thrust of it. But wha t re am saying to you is, this is the kind of detail’ that | is. || involved in doing a thorough investigation. If it is. going 0. be done in a way that reflects credit, it has to be done thoroughly. To do it in a way with inadequate staff, ‘not a.willingness |
‘to be thorough and not a willingness to be professional about it, you are going to be subject to searching inquiry, an evaluation as the Warren Commission has, for my money it means || then do not do it. But if you are going to do it, do-it. ‘thoroughly. Fie do have this film. If there are any questions iL “will, ‘| be happy» to answer them. ‘Maybe we might recess “for lunch. Be Chairman Downing. Thank you, Mr. Sprague. I feel sure there are questions. We will probably take them in order and OT gy to 12: 30 and then adjourn for lunch. add _ Mr. Gonzalez? oe Mr. .Gonzalez. We had a brief discussion about how we! pean insure continuity. One thing depends on the other. hy I chink we have learned as we have gone along, I think you: realize “some aspects of the congressional procedures that || may not have been too clear to you. “We do have some ‘questions that we will have ‘to. direct, at. ‘the proper time to the leaders of the House. But at this. 9. point I do not know if the fact is clear that you cannot really, “make commitments. There is really no way we can insure a “commitments to people that have forsaken a job in, order: to. get - on with the committee until we know exactly what is going to bef 3 done by the 95th Congress in providing appropriations. “And Tr |] eon that really is the all-important question at this point. ae I do not know how to resolve it.
9 Mr. Sprague. Mr. Chairman, with regard to the statement T sy aaa he is absolutely right. And let me ‘state “that of the personnel that has been recruited w this” is a skeletal kind of recruiting I am going into. iL when yc you look Hat this resume, I have recruited people who are giving up “good positions, who are coming here as professionals, really, “with a kind of faith and confidence that the ‘Congress intends to do a thorough job. | | a Chairman Downing. Mr. Devine? Mr, Devine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 1 will be very brief, Mr. Sprague. I am am extremely — - impressed by your presentation. You have been sitting there. sae for A hour and As minutes right off the top of your head - ; ‘giving us a very fine analysis of why you think we should ® vin the direction you are seeking to go, and TL find very” 7 “Little. area of disagreement. | . i You point out about polygraphs lie detectors, “you, “recognize immediately it is ‘merely an investigative ony “is not conclusive. | | I have three questions that perhaps you can answer “rapidly. I am concerned about press releases by anyone “connected with this investigation. I had to fly to Miami- ‘last week one day and back the next, and read” in ‘the c Mia “Herald all about the fact’ that, ‘as I indicated to you ‘earlier, . this is” - going to be a massive “investigation; ait - could be a
“lf career for many people, with no termination of the number of persons. involved. And that raised the question, not’ particu- larly as to whether or not that is the right thing, but who. should make releases, who should be talking about’ what || this committee is doing. Wt rope that we.do not have press releases by. the. ‘executive “director or by staff members or by committee staff. : iT think. ~we should determine policy on who is the spokesman and who - iphoutd talk about what. The other thing tha&t occurs to me, if in fact the. Congress does provide the funds to give us 170 or more een 2 nat are we going to do with the bodies? Do we have a place” fee — headquarter them? If we have met that particular problem; a “maybe you have an answer to that, Chairman Downing. a. peur That is in the general area. Mr, Preyer? Mr. Thone. How about that first question? _ Chairman Downing. Do you want to respond? Mr. Sprague. Yes, may I respond? - Chairman Downing. Certainly. oe - Mr. Sprague, With regard to the last question first, we" do have an inadequate temporary space in. No.2 Annex, right now, really just three rooms, “but we. vitae a iouse making arrangements to get additional temporary space right | >. next: to it, which I ‘think will be adequay te for the: remainder.
59° of this year with what is do-able with the limitations of If budget for this year. Dinar I would request, and do need, if the committee 4 “would feel that what is being asked is proper, TL think ‘there 5 should be the initiation of a request of the Architect to || etve you the place for these numbers of bodies, and envio 7 |} xcooms as well, with the new Congress. That is on ‘the agenda 7 “which we will take up as well. | os ye With regard really to the first question, I think that. |] the only spokesman, really, ought to be the chairman and there ought to be a press aide to whom those inquiries from the | press goes, so the chairman is not driven crazy by the demands. I may say this, and if there is criticism; L accept it; 4 || while I have not spoken of the investigation or the material |} enae I have laid out here; what I have said publicly has s been “on the need for staff, and the numbers of staff. “That. T “have ‘done on the basis that I: ‘thought that there is a certain | “public education involved. This has nothing to do with the ; Wl direction of the investigator information developed, “but L i 5 || a0 vecognize, well, 170 in my opinion is minimal, it “sounds “tremendous when someone hears it, ) - really thought it would be of aid, even to' the comites and. the Congress, if members of the public heard. not ‘from a. : . “congressman but someone who is, I do hope, considered a professional, as to whati:is the ‘professional need for staff.
- 60 That is the reason, and that is the area that I have spoken. about myself. as D chairman Downing. Mr. Preyer? aoe’ Mr. Preyer. Well, I agree with Mr. Devine on ‘the. splendid — ‘ness: of your presentation, Mr. Sprague. r agree with you entirely on the importance of this being a definitive | investi+ gation, and that if it is not done right it is. better not to. I} ao 3 it at all. Along that line, I would be interested in the: strategy of how. we convince Congress of that and what role” we ° cas. ‘We tndividuay Bembers should play, if any. ‘Should we let all of this suddenly hit the Congress cold. : “wath a report in December? oy ‘Maybe that is the way to give it maximum impact. ae “do. not say anything? Or should | we among our colleagues © | informally be talking about the needs for staff such as you have indicated here? What should we be doing right now, if we agree with you” Tl ena this is something that ought to be done, which I do "agree with? | a S Mr, Sprague. Mr. Preyer, the chairman and L ave, moe . with the Speaker, I guess I should not say the. Speaker, . “probably the next Speaker of the House and the’ Present oe ‘Speaker, really for the purpose of laying out, “not in oes depth that I Just did here, but the concepts and. the kind of |
er staff that is required, because in my view a big mistake | would be made in just thinking that we just drift along. — Aimacr Organizing now for something in January? 1 “think, and here I urge this committee /_ eannot do every “thing; you are ‘the congressmen, you are the people experienced” ‘on. the Hill, not me. TI am willing to knock myself out. If 7 vow. want, I will appear before 435 congresonen, one-t -by- me ‘and ¢ go - through the same presentation so it is understood, “Hopefully you would feel that that is not necessary. ue if you feel it is, I will do it, | ae 7 | a I think it is important that on a nonpolitical basis, which is really 1 what this investigation is # you camo “urge that strong enough x that really the leadership all” Pee around, both parties, be brought into recognizing what “hopefully you do, and that it is understood that, yes, “we: will . get this kind of backing and: that; yes, we will get what cis | “the required appropriation, | I think the groundwork for that: must be done as of: | yesterday, not tomorrow. I think it has to be worked on now. | One of the things that I read right now, Tr ci did: not until I came down here that when the new | Congress oe ‘convenes in January 3, there is an interin 0} of time’ in which | |] things have to get going. || tavestigating these _two assassinations, we cannot be in ‘the: Well, I really do think that when we are ‘talking | about” oop
. “posture of telling investigators, “you may have to go out. oto | Denver or you may have to go to Toronto, ve my be ‘go somewhere | else, that stop, stop the investigation cold because we need ty, thee weeks, a month, for the ‘reorgani- zation of the new Congress. | | | Wt do not think that that would even, just ‘the. appearance of it I do not think would be appropriate for the Congress. What I would urge this committee to do, and I do- not _know what: to do, but ‘it is to get involved or take , steps with the leadership so ‘they understand that ought | not es sto. be, so there could be introduced H. LR. 1, H. if. 2 perhaps , cs R, 3, something where there is a continuity: and we, can. 1 be ine the posture of getting the kind of staff lined up. i Obviously we cannot recruit all of the veoptei wet |] can only be recruiting a few people. I think it has to be. “done immediately. - | Ghaixrman Downing. I will get with the Speaker co see “what can be done to provide this continuity. “ It strikes me we have two ways to go in the resolution: | “Immediate action on the request by the committee for money "2 | Mr. Sprague. Mr. Chairman, I also have one other comment. ~I do not look upon this as a career matter for ‘the “staff. Te will be nice to work with you and I will appreciate it, but rT have other fields to go to back in Philadelphia. this is, in my opinion, a one- ‘shot operation, which is
63 “different than the usual continuous committee. It is to | a: both jobs thoroughly. Ft have stated you cannot put a time limitation. ‘When I. “speak to juries in murder cases, where we are going to lock ‘them up, juries like to have some idea how long they Fe) ‘going to be confined for the length of this trial. eet | Well, I give them an approximation, saying, but if Ll “say a Month, do not at the end of the month jump uP and oe Th Mee ‘Sprague, you promised 1 us” the case would be, over. today,’ . int that sense I do not. ‘think there can be a time seston I hope that we could finish the job in the se ~year period | || of the next Congress. I do not. think: that. it ought to me |] on and. on and on and on, and with the kind of staff T am ° ae aan about, I hope we can do a dffinitive job. | - /fhairman Down wning. | Mr. McKinney? Me. McKinney. Mr. Chairman, I hope you will exeuse my ; . voice, | vee I am pretty impressed by your presentation: I do have a problem, | ae “Most of us are wearing about six hats at this table. 1 ence it came out at the Senate hearings that. is = “do not want to add to the staff. But I do. think that our. “reputations are going to ride on this, every Person at nae table is going to be eanehes Looked at asa buck- passer, ee | SP eee be | failure, amd another ene of those sort. OF whitewashers, OT
they are going to be looked at as people who did a thorough, definitive job. FP eexestjithonsooinfogssinestance eaten gS _omencninstcermpsS5abieymmnanishngwpenenmonntonsubeonnitteey exas I / really do feel, without interrupting your flow, that’ “we are going to have-to , have as members someone on this. oe || conmitcee that. keeps” us from being just innocents. soe We are not a jury, we are not sequestered to hear each. oo “stage. _ We are going to have to come in here with some: kind | cae “ “of. background behind us and some continuing knowledge. io Zi do not think we can take your staff and keep pulling | “them all the time to get the background information. yee “seems to me the Senate Committee tried it without soso | ‘etete and found out it just could not be done if they, did” a “not have a continual liaison person with your operation, . “particularly on the subcommittee level. | © with that I will stop speaking. ~ Ghairman Downing. Perhaps that is a good suggestion. Mr, Sprague. May I xespond, Mr. Chairman and Mr. “McKinney? ae eee “That sounds nice. In my opinion it is not workable in _ || this instance, and I will say why in a moment. - What I had thought was desirable here, and again “one of phe ‘reasons for the subcommittee, is. that what iL intend” te do is te see. ‘that. on, a 2 weekly } basis. each member of ‘the aN
655 ‘subcommittee is fully advised as to what is going on and - “we are going to take that. burden, the deputy chief in. Kennedy “or King, for that subcommittee, with me, is going to have” ‘the ‘responsibility of getting together and. giving that” | 8 “information. Los gz I think the obligation is ours to furnish it e weekly, Mas opposed to having a member of each congressman’ s- staff, fe "standing or sitting by, for this reason: Again, ints a s . “Little different area of operation, as I see it. os I had a | meeting, for example, going over chis matter | of the, film, and the person out in Denver, ovelady, Lf 4 in et fact we must be sitting in on these meetings and having one, o “vepresentative from each congressman sitting - in to. ‘discuss | cae congressman, it becomes an unworkable cperatioi The investigation phase here, in each case, is. ‘not only, a ; “let's, Ss say somebody in. Denver, it has to do with New w Orleans, | | “it has to do with Houston. --The only way that a staff member: Sy |] econ each congressman could then ‘be Knowledgeable on. his om “would: be if he was to sit with me and the chief deputy - in” 7 Literally every one of the overall operational pe oe that would mean that we have 12 staff people sitting : in . there. | a think it would be unworkable. ‘What I would Tegneses at least, is that t in starting out, : at least you attempt it initially the way “in which I suggests. . || where w we have that. burden and keep each subcommittee fully.