UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Chicago, Illinois January 17, 1964 In Reply, Please Refer to File No. JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE; ET AL. The following is the transcription of a tape made by an Edwards binaural pocket tape recorder worn by Robert C. Meissner during his meeting with Joseph Verhelle in Detroit, Michigan, on January 10, 1964: "This is Special Agent William F, Hood, Federal ‘Bureau of Investigation, Chicago, Illinois, I have just installed a tape recording device on the person of Mr, Robert C. Meissner at his residence in Hinsdale, Illinois, and this date January 10, 1964, at approximately 6:30 A.M. _ Long inaudible conversation - « e « that $200,000 a year is a hell of a lot of money to pay out for . (V) I have an attorney who is probably the best attorney in town. (V) I sent him a letter : ALL INFORMATION CONTAINED = oo, HEREIN 5; UNClASSED Inaudible conversation DAT LE <4 1B E. Zahe (GC (M) That's a wonderful bank (JFID | Did they do a favor for somebody or something Long inaudible conversation (V) It can only happen in Detroit . More inaudible conversation I don't have that kind of money ¢ More inaudible conversation i en DoclId:32310090 Page 3
. . ad . cy eo 2. 7. C) oo 7 C ) 1 29 JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; , DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE ; ET AL (M) .. . Do they have that kind of money . . (v) (M) (M) (M) (v) (at) (v) (Vv) (Vv) (Mt) e « They don't have that kind of money . . . Inaudible | As a director you're liable ... Inaudible . In other words by giving them this letter You're putting them on notice ... Wetre putting them on notice , oe Inaudible I. just wondered .. ,. you know if » o e« Sully Sherone our attorney, he told me that he had seen Jimmy of course they were on this negotiation and he is the one who told me about . . . that _ they're mov ing down to Chattanooga and ,., . from the work we've done in that state, knowing that state e e e I don't see how he's gonna get a fix in there, I just don't know, This is the toughest one he's ever had. Inaudible » e » Jimmy's head attorney » e That's the fellow from town here, Oh, he's from Detroit ... ‘Inaudible (Vv) \ ‘ . « « » and he had just come back . .. this was before they got the move , , they're all scared to death . Inaudible DoclId: 32310090 Page 4
JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE ; ET AL _ ; (H) Well, I'm not sure that that isn't actually gonna be the route cause, .. . working as we did... that's a practical state. .., and on the other hand I've never seen, you know you talk about clannishness up in New Hampshire or the clannishness out on say North Shore in Chicago. Those people are all related to each other and unless you're in, you're out. Now that would be true, . they wouldn't like Jimmy | but they're not gonna like Bobby either. (M) One thing that concerns me though is when we talked in Washington . and talked about the possibility of Chicago and so on... . (M) I can't see how it's gonna do one darn bit of good to have the | | fix in Chicago, If he gets convicted in Tennessee, because ' from Tennessee it.comes to Chicago and with a recent felon, he's had it. No matter how much your Judge might help ... because under those circumstances ,. ., it's just too soon, , Inaudible (M) .. .'At least we can keep track of it in Chicago because we'll be in a position to help ... . apparently they're just not sure that the one down South is right on the line... Inaudible (V) I don't think it's helped him a lot to get it moved. (MM) Well, I think as a matter of fact it’s probably hurt because . 8 2 ; little town . 4. .« . m9) Sort ‘of a home town thing where everybody knows everybody and _ . there is certainly no industry there compared to Nashville ... law of averages get friendlier ... Inaudible (M) . . . and anybody that's on the bench down there is’ gonna listen , . . . which is from that point of view a practical thing but it bothers me cause he's gotta come out of Tennessee without a conviction otherwise when he comes to Chicago , . « -3- LL DoclId: 32310090 Page 5
¥; JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DOMINICK EDWARD BARTONE; ET AL imsndthie. I think that it could be done, I really do . , ah. . and it (M) can be done fast but . ah . . if they're gonna move, they -. gotta move and move fast. (Vv) (™) (Mm) (v) (M) an (M) e e true . 4 e It can't be done by Jimmy, it's got to be done by somebody .. . « else that's in an entirely different industry, you as a banker or somebody like myself as an engineer ... I agree absolutely .. . it better be somebody .. that can » » Other reason to be talking to these people . , have nothing to do with the situation down in Chattanooga at all but » « ah , . I think it can be done but it costs money. Like, any idea? Well, I would just guess, I would think that ..,ah.. to delude the top guy would cost a quarter of a million bucks, Maybe even half a million, Campaign contributions I don't think they're interested in, I think they'd be interested in real money. Maybe .. . on a COD basis, that way you know - somebody doesn't get paid before they get ... ah , cause they work on the honor system down there anyway, they always have , , but that the only way ...,. the reason I know is that. even though we have this bankruptcy in... all. kinds of interstate highway stuff and you have to be qualified... qualified , ..so ,. ,. and they just sit down and say well okay . . they're looking for cash . . you're in the country or out of it, they don't. care but that's it. No hitches, no problems, Inaudible You think you can get them to come up with that money . oe Did you ever talk to Jimmy about this | ; . ; 1. | DoclId: 32310090 Page 6
L) y 8d . . : a. L ; NS ' JAMES RIDDLE HOFFA; DOMINICK .EDWARD . BARTONE; ET AL . (M) (v) an Inaudible You didn't tell him ah who... I didn't tell anything... As.to who I am... Inaudible... . . . that makes sense... Inaudible .. . Is that right... Well, I suppose SO « « 06 Long inaudible conversation ‘The tape recorder was concealed on Meissner 's person by Special Agent William F. Hood prior to Meissner flying to Detroit and was removed immediately upon his return to O'Hare International Airport where he was met by Special Agents William. F, Hood and Gale T, Johnson at approximately 2:40 P.M., CST, January 10, 1964, Upon removal of the recorder, it was noted that the supply reel of the recorder had been completely emptied, The prefix (M), for Meissner, and (V), for Verhelle, were used to identify.the person speaking wherever identification was possible. ; This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, It is the property of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and is loaned to your agency; it and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. ~ 5 = DoclId: 32310090 Page ?