v9.1 ; AGENCY : RECORD NUMBER : RECORD SERIES : AGENCY FILE NUMBER : ORIGINATOR : FROM: TO: TITLE : DATE: PAGES: SUBJECTS : DOCUMENT TYPE: CLASSIFICATION : RESTRICTIONS : CURRENT STATUS : DATE OF LAST REVIEW: OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : Docld:32277221 Page 1 JFK Assassination System Identification Form Agency Information HSCA 180-1013 1-10336 SECURITY CLASSIFIED TESTIMONY 014734 Document Information HSCA [Restricted] 08/10/1978 46 BAY OF PIGS BISHOP, MAURICE [Restricted] DURAN, SYLVIA MEXICO CITY CIA, METHODOLOGY TRANSCRIPT Top Secret 3 Redact 02/18/1997 Box 8 Date: 10/19/20
4 2S ooe f e SEL ee eo exacsnces | “TESTIMONY OF BALMES NIVES HIDALGO, JR August 10, 1978 Ot le Regorting Company lt “Alderson : Reponter ~ yi a Docld: 32277271 Page 2
SHORT - 1 in ao <a) Docld: 322772271 os A Ss A ee Se a ee nS ee ee) ee ee 2 notre mane Page 4 TOP SECRET ai whew d TESTIMONY OF BALMES NIEVES HIDALGO, JR, THURSDAY, AUGUST 10, 1978 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on the Assassinatio ef President John F., Kennedy P of the Select Committee on Assassinations, i Washington, D. C, { The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:46 p.m., in} room 340, Cannon House Office Building, the Hon, Richardson Preyer (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. | ; { . i Present: Representatives Preyer, Burke, Dodd and Fithian.| i Staff members present: E. Berning, M, Goldsmith, C., Berk, | W. A. Cross, O, Wagner, D. Hardway, J. Conzelman and C. Fenton. | Mrs. Burke (presiding), The subcommittee will please come: to order, t The Chair recognizes Elizabeth Berning to name those offi- cially designated to be on the subcommittee pursuant to the Committee Rule 12.6, : Miss Berning. Mrs, Burke, you, Mr, Preyer, Mr. Dedd and Mr, Thone are regular members of the Kennedy Subcommittee. Mr, Fithian will be substituting for Mr, Dodd, Mrs, Burke, Let. the record show that there were three.
UP? SLvuAzi 2 members present, There are two members who are present who . bd are still remaining and the Chair will swear the witness. Will the witness state his name, please. Mr. Hidalgo, Balmes Nieves Hidalgo, Jr. tn da | | | | Mrs, Burke. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you | | | | | 7 give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 7 | truth, so help you God? 7 Mr, Hidalgo. I do. 7 Mrs. Burke, The hearing is in closed session pursuant to | io. the vote that was taken before the recess and that vote still nh remains and the hearing is in closed session. If there is . } - anyone in the. room who is not a member of the staff or an | a attorney for the witness, they will leave, ! @ id . Let the record show that the committee is in closed | | is session, | 7 I would like to read a brief statement concerning the : | subject of the investigation, This committee is operating : 7 under the mandate of House Resolution 222 to conduct a full andl 9 | complete investigation and study into the circumstances surrounk- ~ | ing the assassination and death of President John F, Kennedy, 2 including determining whether the existing laws of the United | 7 a | States concerning the protection of the President and investi- @ ~3 | gatory jurisdiction and capability of agencies and departments | ~ 7 are adequate in their provisions and enforcement and whether | ae ; there was full disclosure of evidence and information among | en * Docld: 32277221 ‘bage 5 THD Qrrnort
Vi wWLYURLd - 3 agencies and departments of the United States Government and nN whether any evidence or information not in the possession of an agency or department would have been of assistance in investigating the assassination and why such information was da not provided or collected by that agency or department and to make recommendations to the House if the committee deems it appropriate for the amendment of existing legislation or the anactment of new legislation, This is the mandate of the committee. You may be seated, Mr. Hidalgo. Would your counsel state his name. Mr, Gaines, Stanley H. Gaines, 150 Little Falls Street, Falls Church, Virginia. Mrs, Burke, The staff will proceed to interrogate. Mr. Goldsmith. Thank you. Mrs. Burke, prior to the beginning of this hearing Mr. Gaines asked me if he might make a brief statement and I indicated to him I had no problem with that, Mrs. Burke. Certainly. Mr. Gaines. I would like to assure this distinguished committee that Mr. Hidalgo has been apprised of the charter of the committee, of the seriousness of the committee's charter and the scope of it which is considerably broad and intends to answer all relevant questions to the best of his recollection. 24 nN —~ — oO ve) oo = ae aw I would simply like to impress on the committee, although |
Nn aa wo @ . 22 73 24 Docld: 322772271 > =: bage 7 TAD CrPocT I recognize it may be carrying coals to New Castle, that a man who has spent many years as an officer in the Central Intelligence Agency has a conditioned reluctance to disclose methods notwithstanding the acknowledged entitlement of this committee to receive such information if the committee deems | the information pertinent but I raise this point only by way | of appealing to the committee as we may from time to time, if | considered necessary, to carefully weigh the pertinence or | I relevance or indispensability of names of persons who may have | | risked life or limb or liberty or careers in the service of | | the United States. If that information is deemed relevant, there is no question that it will be provided if we are called but there may be cases where the committee feels that although it would be entitled to the information it can do without it and in such cases we would request that the committee forego the identification of persons, That includes the identity of the witness himself, It would be tragic or could be tragic if the fact were disclosed | | | | ) | to the press, for example, that he appeared before this com- | mittee in the capacity of a witness. ! Finally, only by way of underscoring what I have said and | notwithstanding Acting Director Carlucci's letter to the | committee, this officer, like others in his category, feels a | personal fiduciary responsibility toward persons whom he | induced to work in a clandestine capacity for the United States t | | | |
wm in @ INDEX @ . 7 Docld: 322772271 $ i ! | | i | | ac Sai WLW I 5 Government and whose efforts in that regard he directed which makes it additionally difficult, if not painful, for him to disclose who those persons were, particularly if some of them are still in hostile territory. Having said that, there are no reservations on Mr. Hidalgo's part to answer any questions, save of course his privilege of self-~incrimination if required, That is all, Mrs. Burke. Thank you very much, Counsel may proceed, TESTIMONY OF BALMES NIEVES HIDALGO, Jr. Mr. Goldsmith, For the record would you please state your name and address, Mr. Hidalgo. Balmes Nieves Hidalgo, Jr., 403 Silver Rock Road, Rockville, Maryland, Mr. Goldsmith, Mr, Hidalgo, do you also go by the name of Barney Balmes Hidalgo? Mr. Hidalgo, Barney is a childhood name and so much easier to pronounce rather than Balmes and nearly everyone, including relatives, calls me Barney, Mr. Goldsmith, I take it the answer to my question is yes, Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, Mr. Goldsmith, Thank you, Is it true that you have been employed by the CIA? Mr, Hidalgo. Yes, sir, ge TOP SECRET
fa oo 10 Docld: 322772271 Mr. Goldsmith with the CIA? Mr. Hidalgo, Mr. Goldsmith Mr. Hidalgo, Mr, Goldsmith Mr. Hidalgo. = s thst te ee = 1970, February of the CIA? Mr. Hidalgo. Mr. Hidalgo, Mr. Goldsmith, ‘issued by Acting Di Mr. Hidalgo, Mr. Goldsmith, exhibit? Mr, Hidalgo, Mr. Goldsmith, Mr, Hidalgo. =a. Page 9 understand there are going to be lapses here, 1952 through Mr. Goldsmith. Now as an intelligence agent for the CIA were you required to sign the secrecy oath? time to have an opportunity to read JFK Exhibit No, 94 ‘wi WRWiid J 6 - For how many years were you affiliated Eighteen, . What years were those, sir? 1952 through 1958, I am sorry, » Would you like to clarify that? Yes, that does not make sense, You must 1952 to February of 1970. Thank you. Mr. Goldsmith. In what general capacity did you work for” I was an intelligence agent. Yes, sir. In that regard I would like you at this For the record that is the release letter of 23 March 1978 rector Carlucci to Chairman Stokes, Yes, sir, I am aware of it, Have you had a chance to examine that Yes, sir. Do you understand it? Yes, sir. TOP SECRET |
nw aa Oo rd [on Docld: 32277221 t | | Mr. Hidalgo. May I say they are no longer the people I | i | Ur BLUAL i 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Hidalgo, on July 28, 1978, were you . | interviewed by two staff employees of the Select Committee on Assassinations? | Mr. Hidalgo. It was in July of 1978, yes. Mr. Berk who is sitting on my right. | Mr. Hidalgo. That is right. | Mr. Goldsmith. Subsequent to that interview did you have | | | | | Mr. Goldsmith. Mrs Hardway who is sitting on my left and : | | any discussion with any employee of the CIA concerning what you! | told Mr. Berk and Mr. Hardway? | Mr. Hidalgo. Concerning what I told Mr. Berk and Mr. Hardway, no, sir. Mr, Goldsmith. So no one from the CIA, I take it, dis- cussed the substance of your discussion with Mr. Berk and Mr. Herdway. Mr, Hidalgo. No, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, Is that correct? talked to because we are still friends and I see them occa- sionally. They are not now with the CIA, Mr, Goldsmith. I understand. Has anyone from the agency discussed with you the substance 1 of your testimony that you are about to give here today? Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, Now you indicated that you worked as an _— TOP SECRET
w aa aw “oo 22 73 24 as as Docld: 32277221 Page 11 TAD READCT iUr SLUALI! 9 intelligence agent for the CIA. Is there a difference between | a case officer and an intelligence agent? Mr. Hidalgo, Not in my meaning of the word, no, sir, Mr. Goldsmith. Could you give the committee some back- | ground in your particular areas of expertise as an intelligence agent? Mr. Hidalgo, Well, general collection of information, interrogation of suspected agents of foreign countries, method , | of acquiring information by many means, counterintelligence was the fourth really. Mr, Goldsmith, Were you generally involved in clandestine activities? Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, I would like to focus now on the period 1960 through 1964 and I ask you to give the committee a summary. of the assignments that you had during that period. Mr. Hidalgo. Well, from 1960 through 1964 I was assigned to the division having to do with Cuba in general and the things that were going on at that time between Cuba and the world in general. Mr. Goldsmith. Was that task force W that you were worki with? Mr, Hidalgo. I don't recall the name of it. pe ~§-— Mr, Goldsmith, Did you ever work for a program referred to as the Durable Assets Program?
tur SLVAL! 9 Mr, Hidalgo. I don't recall working for that, no. I may have, I don't know, Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever work with the JM wave station in Miami? wy in Mr. Hidalgo, yes, sir. é | Mr. Goldsmith. Would you indicate to the committee where | | ‘specifically you were located during these assignments during | ¢ | the period from 1960 to 1964? | | 9 | Mr. Hidalgo. In Washington, Miami, New York City, . Io Philadelphia, New Orleans, Mexico, Guatemala, Salvador. I | 7 believe I have covered them. If I left anything out, I don't 12 | mean to, Puerto Rico. | 7 Excuse me, There is an island a few miles off from | _ i | : ® rf | Puerto Rico and actually my work was not in Puerto Rico, it | is | was on this island, _ : | Mr. Goldsmith, Fine, Now you indicated you spent some | al time in Washington, D.C: Do you recall what time period you : a spent in Washington, D. C.? | tg | Mr. Hidalgo, Well, Washington, D. C., was my official | station. ! 7 Mr. Goldsmith. During that entire period? L, 21 Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir, The others were TDYs, : e “4 | Mr. Goldsmith. What is a TDY? 44 Mr. Hidalgo. Temporary duty stations. | me 25 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether the CIA had a domestic’ Docld: 32277221 Page 12 THhp QEPattT
iU? QLUNE! oO spent some time in Mexico during the period 1960 through 1964, Approximately how many times did you visit Mexico for the ae Renee SRS SO Sa a Tee TS a. eee ee a a eee agency? lo | lf exploitation section? | ” 2 Mr, Hidalgo. Domestic -- j . 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Exploitation section during the period tha " ‘@ 4 you were working for it. | 5 Mr. Hidalgo. Not by that name, If you tell me what -- | 6 | Mr. Goldsmith. Specifically by that name, do you know | ? | whether the agency had such a unit? | 3 | Mr, Hidalgo. I am not quite aware of it, I may know it | | 3 | by some other name is what I am trying to say. ! Mr. Goldsmith. Now you indicated a moment ago that you | | | | | | i a Mr. Hidalgo, I am trying to recall this as best I can. Waen the staff interviewed me I made the remark that I had been ia there in 1964 and since then my wife corrected me on that. She said, "You were not there, we were on our honeymoon in 1964 so veu were not in Mexico." .So it must have been 1961 and/or 1962; now come to mind, Since then let me say I have been raking my mind, going over in my mind everything and everything that I | { | 13 | 9 I don't recall 1963 but 1961 and 1962 are the dates that really| | | did because I do want to cooperate with you. “3 Mr. Goldsmith, I understand, | 2 : Now what was the purpose of the trip to Mexico in 1961? i ne 4 Mr, Hidalgo, All the trips that I took to Mexico were in | Docld: 322772271 ‘page 13 TAD ernorr
iUr SCUALI , ll connection with an operation I had going against the Communist Party in Mexico. nN oJ - on a Mr. Goldsmith, Is it possible, sir, that you were also in Mexico in 1963? Mr, Hidalgo, I don't recall it now but like I say it has 6 been quite a few years ago. 7 Mr, Gaines, Counsel, may I simply point out to the 5 | committee members what I think. counsel knows, that Mr. Hidalgo 5 suffered a major stroke in 1958 and a minor one in 1964 and / that that may account for what would appear to be an unusual 7 lapse of memory . There are many things that he just cannot 2 | remember or cannot remember when asked but there is no inten- a tion to evade any of your questions. | - @ 7 . Mr, Preyer. Thank you. | sf Counsel, . | Mr, Goldsmith, Perhaps at this time I might ask, Mr, a Hidalgo, how old are you? ‘a Mr. Hidalgo. I am 59 years old, a] Mr. Goldsmith... Mr. Hidalgo, have you ever. examined your 0 office personnel file? | | Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir. nt Mr. Goldsmith, Now you have indicated you were involved a © ~3 | in an operation against the Communist Party in Mexico. 7 Mr, Hidalgo. Yes, Mr. Goldsmith. Were you also involved in any operations yen ’ t Docld: 322772271 Page 14 THD Qrroer
wr weluali l2 | against the Cuban government in Mexico? | Mr. Hidalgo. Not in Mexico, no, sir, Mr. Goldsmith. When you were in Mexico on these opera-— ticns against the Communist Party, was the local CIA station a aa in to your knowledge aware of your presence in Mexico? Mr, Hidalgo. YEs, sir. I had the contact. | 7 | Mr. Goldsmith, So someone at the Mexico City station knew 3 | you? 9 ! Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, knew that I was there, 0 : Mr. Goldsmith, Do you recall what: the cryptonym was of 7 | the operation against the Communist Party in Mexico? 2 Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir, I really don't, 7 3 Mr. Goldsmith, I believe you have indicated that to the “@ a best of your recollection you were in Mexico two times during 5 this period. ~ | 1 Mr. Hidalgo. Two, perhaps three, 7 Mr, Goldsmith, Was the purpose of your visit each time 13 with regard to this operation against the Communist Party? is Mr. Hidalgo, Yes, sir. 20 | Mr. Goldsmith, Mr. Hidalgo, without going into sources 3 | or methods, I would like you to give just some general details 2 49 on this operation, . @ “3 | Mr. Hidalgo. The operation, as I say, took a couple of : 3 i ~ oA visits to set up and culminated with my gathering every bit of ! ne information from all of the files of the Mexican Communist | Party -- I mean all of the original files of the Mexican age 15 THE SECRET 7 Docld: 32277221 Lb
aa G 3 24 :) tn Docld: 322772271 nz | Ur SL£ude i 13 Communist Party and other properties, _ Mr. Goldsmith, Did you work with any other individuals on this project? Mr. Hidalgo. I had this contact who assisted me in setting up what we called a safehouse and put me in touch with certain members of the Mexican police that assisted me in my job. Mr. Goldsmith, So there was some involvement with the Mexican police in part, is that correct? Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. — Mr. Goldsmith, Just assisting you in general terms? > Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, Mr. Goldsmith. And your local contact, was he from the Mexico City station? Mr, Hidalgo. He was in Mexico City, yes, Mr. Goldsmith, Well, the CIA officer is what I am asking you, Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir.: Let me add I was under unofficial cover, I was not there using my true name, so therefore this one contact knew I was there and arranged things for me. Mr, Goldsmith. Do you recall which name vou were using at that time? Mr. Hidalgo. You.mean to him or in my official capacity? Mr. Goldsmith, Whatever name you were using in your unofficial cover in Mexico, base a8 TNP CEeerr
da in Docld: 32277221 iUr vLunZ | 14 Mr. Hidalgo. It could have been Bernard. It could have been Benny. It could have been -- I used so many. I am sorry, I don't know. If someone called me and said, "What is your . | name?" and I said Bernard, I would say that was your first name, I would not -- oS ee en en ee eo ee ae © Re Mr. Goldsmith. Again in general terms was this operation a success? Mr, Hidalgo. Yes, sir. Mr, Goldsmith, Were the materials that you obtained given to anyone else at the CIA?. Mr, Hidalgo. Yes, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, Was the material given to an individual in Mexico City? Mr, Hidalgo. No, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, So was it an individual at the CIA head- quarters? Mr, Hidalgo, Yes, sir. | | : | | | | l | ! | { i | | a a en Se ee Mr, Goldsmith, Mr. Hidalgo, were you ever involved in any| operations in Mexico City aimed at the Cuban embassy or consulate? “Mr, Hidalgo. No, sir, Mr. Goldsmith, When you were in Mexico City were you aware of the photo and telephonic surveillance operations which) . . 1 | the Mexico City station had against the Cuban and Soviet embassy and consulate? Mr. Hidalgo. I knew there was one but I did not know = Page 17 ThP CFrarT
tur VLuNL! 15 where it was located, nN? name in the conversation but it had nothing to do with what I | | : | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know a woman named Sylvia Duran? | 3 Mr. Hidalgo. Sylvia Duran. The name is familiar to me, | : “@ 4 | very familiar in hearing, but that is as far as I can go, I | ; s | mean truthfully. | 5 Mr. Goldsmith, Do you recall in your interview with Mr. "| Berk and Mr, Hardway when asked whether you used Sylvia Duran | 3 | your response was, "Sure do know her but I sure don't want to , discuss it"? ! 10 Mr, Hidalgo, Okay. I sure do know of her is what I | | should have said. Now I am discussing it as to where I heard | { / it and I will tell you how that name popped up if you wish, # , ' 7 13 _Mr. Goldsmith, Please do. | ! @ v4 | Mr. Hildago. Okay. In this operation that I did in | 7 1s ' Mexico City I believe it was the last visit that when it was | 18 finally accomplished I needed some information as to times and - places which would enable me to countervent the security of the 1a | Communist Party security system. In other words, I wanted to | | is | do my job and not get caught, The case officer there that I | 20 | had contact with said that he had someone, an agent, a Mexican | 21 | national, who could tell me these things and without giving me , 2 | her name, etc., we arranged or I arranged a method of meeting -@ “4 ! her using intelligence trade craft to more cover my tracks, | x4 | Cover her tracks so that we could meet and she mentioned this | : | | , | | it 4 Docld: 32277221 Page 136 | THE SECRET
in ao are was a ‘Docld: 32277271 a aes wr weuiid i 16 was there for so when the name came up, the name popped into my memory. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever meet with Sylvia Duran? Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir, not to my knowledge, I met one woman there and she was someone else. Mr. Goldsmith, To your knowledge did Sylvia Duran ever assist you directly or indirectly in any operation? Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir, Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether Sylvia Duran was affiliated in any way with the CIA? Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, Do you know whether she was affiliated in any way with Cuban intelligence? Mr, Hidalgo. At the time when this contact told me of it: I. tied the two together, yes, sir. Mr. Goldsmith. Why did you make that connection? Mr. Hidalgo. I don't know. Now at that time it was otvious to me as an intelligence agent that there was some connection there but it was of no interest whatsoever to me. I do remember that when I next saw this contact of mine I mentioned the fact to him and let him proceed to do whatever he wanted to, Mr. Goldsmith. So for purposes of clarification, during this period you felt that Sylvai Duran may have been connected ‘in some way with. Cuban intelligence, is that correct? Page 19 TOP SFEARET
tur gLunci 17 Mr, Hidalgo, With Cuban operations. You know, the Cuban NN) operation versus say Guatemala or Russian or whatever, | | ! | 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. I am not sure that I understand. When wy @ 4 you say Cuban operations do you mean operations by the Cuban 5 government? | 7 Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, rather than saying, yes, I took it for | | granted that she was an agent of the Cuban intelligence. mee 7 is why I told this contact and he took it from there to inves- | | tigate further. | 0. Mr, Goldsmith. Do you know whether that issue was ever | i ; | resolved? | 0 Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir, I never even bothered to check on | ; @ ts i Mr. Goldsmith, Do you have any information about that. | | today? | : ‘a | Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir. | - Mr. Goldsmith, Are you familiar with the cryptonym AMMUG/2? a Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. | | 3 | Mr. Goldsmith, Without disclosing the identity of this | sa | individual would you tell the committee generally who he was? : . 2 | Mr, Hidalgo. AMMUG/1 was a Cuban intelligence officer, | . 2 he worked for Directorio General Intelligencia, DGI, the Cuban | . 6 -3 | government, the counterpart of CIA, He defected to Canada in | ~ | I believe 1964 and was brought into the United States and that vey, | is what he did. He was a defector. | 2 n aos | | Page 20 JOR SECRET Docld: 32277221
nh 22 73 24 Docld: 32277221 know. — - = ——— eo with that) 24 oo f=] it} a i pari iur veal 18 Mr, Goldsmith, Did he provide information to the CIA? Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, How significant was the defection of. AMMUG/1 considered to be? Mr, Hidalgo. It was quite an effective, important defection. Mr. Goldsmith. Is it fair to say he provided a wealth of information? Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know his present whereabouts? Mr, Hidalgo. I would suspect he is in Miami but I do not _ Mr. Goldsmith, When was the last time you saw him per- sonally? Mr. Hidalgo. 1964 I believe, late 1964. Mr. Goldsmith, What role, if any, did you have in handling this defector? Mr. Hidalgo. I was his hand holder and interrogator for all the time that he was in the Washington area. Mr, Goldsmith. How many personal contacts did you have him during that period? Mr, Hidalgo, Quite a few. I lived in the same apartment he did, Mr, Hidalgo. Yes, sir. All day I spent with him and night. TAS SEPRET | | 1 | { Mr, Goldsmith. So you saw him virtually on a daily basis? ' | 1 !
ms) ga a on oO Docld: 322772271 en a a Ss SS ne a a ee ee 8 er sae he BRE Ss , 19 Mr. Goldsmith, For how long a period was he in Washington Mr, Hidalgo, Now that you could help me. Mr. Goldsmith. Approximately, Mr. Hidalgo? Mr. Hidalgo. From the time he got to Washington, D. C., until June -- see if I remember this date now, My wife will kill me because it is the day before we got married. Late June 1264 when another agent took over temporarily while I went on my honeymoon. Mr. Preyer. Mr. Hidalgo, I am sorry. I think we will have to recess for about ten minutes, (Whereupon, at 3:15 p.m., the hearing recesseduntil 3:36 p.m.) Mr. Preyer. The committee will come to order, Mr. Goldsmith. Mr.: Hidalgo: -- Mr. Gaines, He wants to add something. eR RR RR BR A Mr. Hidalgo. On those places I operated, I left out two that might be important to you, I don't know, One was Germany and the other one was Scotland. Mr. Goldsmith, I believe my last question was for how long a time period -- Mr. Preyer. If you will excuse me, Mr. Goldsmith, Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, sir, Mr, Preyer. If I could interrupt this hearing for a matter that is not related to this hearing. A subpoena in the name of Jules Mayer Turnable that was issued on August 2, 1978, age 22 THD CLPOoCtT
iUP SEURE! 20 | was made returnable today at two o'clock before this committee | i) The committee will permit compliance with the subpoena next week by Tuesday, August 15, at two p.m, I am sorry to interrupt you. You may proceed, Mr. | Goldsmith, Mr, Goldsmith, . Thank you, Mr, Hidalgo, I believe my last question to you prior to our recess was how long a time period have you actually spent a) with AMMUG and you attempted to answer that question and my recollection of your testimony is that you indicated the last date that you spent with him but you never really told us when you started spending time with him so again I would like to ask you how much time, for how long a time period, did you spend time with him? Mr. Hidalgo... I don't recall the starting date but it was immediately upon his arriving in the Washington area from Canada, Mr, Goldsmith, Can you estimate how much time was involved, a couple of months? Mr. Hidalgo. Oh, yes. Total five, six months at one time and then after this June date I again saw him for about two or three weeks: so it was a bit of a time. Mr. Goldsmith. During that five or six month period initially you had daily contact with him I take it. Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. I actually lived in the same Docld: 322772231 page 23 THAD GCPnacrT
Ur Stuazi. : 21 : | | | | house he was in, 2 | . Mr. Goldsmith. Before we continue with AMMUG I have a | | few further questions to ask about Sylvia Duran. Did you file a report concerning information you had received about Sylvia da 5 Duran? Mr, Hidalgo. No. All I did in that case was I saw this would have been something like, look, so and so, I am here on Qo | | 7 contact of mine in Mexico City and told him about it and it something else, you know, this is out of my bailiwick and I | G 0 | have no interest in it but if you are interested to follow it | up, go ahead, and that was the end of it. 2 Mr, Goldsmith. Do you recall telling Mr. Berk and Mr. | 7 3 Hardway at the time of your interview with them that in fact | @ 7 you had previous information concerning Sylvia Duran? | e Mr. Hidalgo. To my case officer, yes; to my contact down | i 6 there, - | Mr, Goldsmith, You didn't mean a written report? ! 13, Mr, Hidalgo, I didn't mean a formal written report, no. 9 | When I came back I probably wrote a simple debriefing report | | as to what I did during the time I was away, this was the normal 2 nt thing to do, but it would have been focused on my operation, ! 21 3 the success of it, etc. = 2 ” ®@ a3 Mr, Goldsmith, With regard to this operation I believe | ~ . | you testified that you were in Mexico on two or three occasions, 24 ! For approximately how long a time period were you in Mexico on = ac a Docld: 322772271 Page 24 TAD GrPocrTy
in Docld: 32277221 (88S ————E————————————————— OE ee We an So es an es I Se Page 25 this was fourteen years ago retired, I went on to other to call me, you compartment tur BPLUNLi parts of the agency. 25 factory in Cifenasago or another part of Cuba that we guarded - because of this, that or the other thing, that would not be of interest to me but I would report it to my immediate superior and it would not be of interest to him but he would funnel it to somebody that might be interested in that information. So information that we received on AMMUG was dispersed to many Mr. Goldsmith, Did AMMUG provide any information with regard to Sylvia Duran? Mr, Hidalgo. I don't know, Mr. Goldsmith, Did he provide any information in regard to a woman named Louisa Calderon? Mr. Hidalgo, That would be Cul-nin-o my knowledge of Spanish tells me. Mr. Goldsmith. You know more about that than I, sir. Mr. Hidalgo. I don't recall that. Again I must say that Understand the mentality of the spy, is for everyone's good, and since then, and even before I cases and I don't like to -- if that: is what you want. your mind and once you finish an operation you botch it up very neatly and shove it away. It Mr. Goldsmith, Did AMMUG provide any information in culture attache in Mexico City. TOP SECRET reference to a woman named Teresa Proenza Proenza? She was a
Docld: 322772271 ivr eculli 26 Mr, Hidalgo. I don't know. Again I don't recall that. Remember, my main objective with AMMUG was knowing of my opposite numbers in Cuba. Mr. Goldsmith. Is your testimony today that AMMUG never gave you personally any information concerning Oswald? Seco ee Mr. Hidalgo. That is my recollection, The name does not por up to me, That is one of the reports that I wrote down. Mr, Goldsmith. Did Mr, Swenson -- AMMUG's I guess case officer -- ever discuss with you the information that AMMUG grovided regarding Oswald? Mr. Hidalgo. No. Mr. Swenson was my direct superior. I reported to Mr. Swenson. Mr. Swenson did not report to me, Do you follow? Mr, Goldsmith. Yes. Mr, Hidalgo. So if I heard anything from him it was not my privy to know about it. He would review the information I got from AMMUG and if he ever came down to me and said, "What about this?" it would be something that I had written and he | | | ) dic not understand, Mr. Goldsmith, And he never asked you to question AMMUG | about Oswald? | Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir. | Mr, Goldsmith. Were your interrogation sessions with | AMMUG tape recorded? | | Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir. Mine were not, Remember, I was age 29 TAP SECRET
if 4 ne vi VEbAL 4. 3 an | 27 with him. Sometimes he would talk for ten, twelve, fourteen, i) sixteen hours, In the middle of the night he would get up and £ aS could not sleep. He would be worried about his family in Cuba. da | | | | | We would talk and play cards. All the time talking and cooper § | ating. I never bothered tape recording it, it was quite open. | gl Mr. Goldsmith. Were any of the sessions with AMMUG tape | 7 | recorded not necessarily involving you? | 3 Mr, Hidalgo, They may have, I don't know. | 3 | Mr, Goldsmith. Did you ever receive information about a | | 10 DGI case officer in Mexico City named Ernesto? | 1 Mr, Hidalgo. Ernesto, Yes, I believe I remember that | 2 | name but right now I could not tell you what it was, I prob- | 13 ably reported on it. | @ 14 Mr. Goldsmith, ‘pardon me? | 1 | Mr. Hidalgo. I probably reported on it then because that | F . ! 1 was something I was interested in. Any identification of DGI | 7 ) agents I would immediately take down, | : 3 Mr. Goldsmith, ‘Is this information that you would have | a | ebtained from AMMUG or from someone else? | +6 Mr. Hidalgo. From AMMUG probably or -- now wait. I : a! handled other defectors, remember, | : i Mr. Goldsmith. I understand, | . e a4 | Mr, Hidalgo. But the name Ernesto I believe would have - 2 been from AMMUG, ae | Mr, Goldsmith, Can you give the committee any more details d (0D Crear : DocId: 32277221 Page 30 asf 8 hw 5 sa
n> ro) ba an o a oO Docld: 322772271 operations. I don't know what his other input was. 28 about this particular officer? Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir, unless you have something to refres my memory. Mr. Goldsmith, I am told that this individual whom I referred to as Ernesto may have been an individual named Andres | ! i i | | i | Armona who also may have been a:red headed Cuban, Is that | familiar? | | Mr. Hidalgo. That name sounds familiar. Of course there. | are red headed Cubans so if that was said it would have ! impressed me that much but the name sounds like I might have : heard it, Again you have access to any of my records at the | time and if: it is there I would admit it but right now I cannot! recall the information. | Mr. Goldsmith. Did you know Win Scott? | Mr, Hidalgo. I know him as I know Mr. Berk. Not partic- ularly. Mr. Scott, here I am, Mr. Goldsmith. Who was Win Scott? Mr. Hidalgo, He was a member of the affair there of the Mr, Goldsmith. Was he station chief of the Mexico City station? i t Mr, Hidalgo. I seem to remember that he was but I never | ~~ I am-sorry. 1 i Mr. Goldsmith, How many personal contacts, if any, did you have with Mr, Scott? fe abe reg L. pg dame. ik. ab* ER i Nae ang
bw wy ba in i Docld: 32277221 BIRT Nei, | THe VPParr Page 32 rs § VR Aa gf : . 29 Mr. Hidalgo. None, Mr, Goldsmith, Were you involved in any operations for Mr. Scott? Mr. Hidalgo, I may have been involved in operations that he also was involved in, I don't know, but I was never directly responsible to Mr. Scott as such, None of my trips to Mexico were strictly TDYs and for one purpose only and so I was not privy to any operation that he had there. Mr. Goldsmith, Do you know an individual by the name of David Phillips? Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, Who was David Phillips? Mr. Hidalgo. David Phillips is a personal friend of mine and an intelligence officer, an excellent intelligence officer of the agency, Mr. Goldsmith. How did you get to know Mr. Phillips? Mr. Hidalgo, In day-to-day operations at Washington, Mr. Goldsmith, Did you know Mr, Phillips when he was in Mexico City? Mr, Hidalgo. I never saw him in Mexico City. I knew he was in Mexico City but I never met with him there, | Mr. Goldsmith. Were you involved in any operations with Mr. Phillips at.any time? Mr. Hidalgo. I was involved in operations in which Mr. Phillips was involved in but never together.
2¥a VEOAL y i Mr. Goldsmith. How often have you had personal contact. 5 : with Mr. Phillips? | | 3 Mr. Hidalgo. Then? \ | os 4 Mr. Goldsmith. Through the years. | | e 5 Mr. Hidalgo. Through the years after he retired I called | é | him. We belonged to the same association. We are both retired) 7 | and I talk to him. frequently. | | | 3 2 Mr. Goldsmith, Was your relationship with him both a | S business relationship as well as a personal friendship rela- | 10 : tionship? | 7 Mr, Hidalgo. Yes. More or actually friendship than 19 operational, | i | 7 13 Mr. Goldsmith. Did you know an individual named Maurice | ©@ 1 Bishop? | s Mr. Hidalgo. Again Mr. Bishop was in the organization but: 6 I had no personal day-to-day open relationship with him, | | 17 Phillips, yes; Bishop, no. I knew them both and Phillips I | 3 knew, I know Mr, Berk is over there and I know Mr. Hardway is 7 7 3 over there but I have no relationships with them, Do you | 39 follow me? : 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. TI believe you indicated that with | | - ' 4r, Phillips your relationship was both business and personal. | ~ e ~4 Mr. Hidalgo, Yes, | _ 7 Mr. Goldsmith, Now with Mr, Bishop -- was this Mr. Maurice i 1 : i ! { Bishop? tn ‘ i Io } TAB Oraart ‘ $F 2 ¥ —~ Docld: 32277221 Page 33 i & 4 4g an ay) cE = 4
i) sa m® Docld: 322772271 strictly a business knowledge. Maurice Bishop? way somewhere. with the agency? ; did not know, you know. with Mr. Bishop? Division? the details. Dave Phillips. = rAR Cranr a | We 2 84 a ies Swe YEU Y.. Mr, Hidalgo. I believe that was the name, yes. Mr, Hidalgo. I don't believe so, » that important that it would impress itself upon me. i 4 | i | | | | | } { ] { | | | Mr. Hidalgo. I think so but again I am not sure of all | | . : were familiar with Mr. Bishop who have known him? { | i t | ! 31 His was Mr. Goldsmith. How long has it been since you have seen Mr. Hidalgo. .-Less_than twice or three times in the hall Mr. Hidalgo, It would have to be’ before 1970 somewhere, | | Mr. Goldsmith, when was the last time that you saw him? | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know what position, if any, he held | | Mr, Hildago. He held a position higher than mine but I Mr. Goldsmith, ‘Did you ever have any personal contact If it was, it was not Mr. Goldsmith, Did he work in the Western Hemisphere Mr. Goldsmith, Do you know any other individuals who Mr. Hidalgo. I don't know, Perhaps Mr. Swenson, perhaps Mr. Goldsmith.: Was Mr. Bishop's office located at CIA } ‘ ‘ | i | | | { f i |
b> ae @ oo  Docld: 32277221 Sogg 7” Nps peo. | JUS gLuhy § headquarters in Langley? 32 Mr. Hidalgo. I believe so. Mr. Goldsmith, Do you recali which floor his office was located on? Mr. Hidalgo. No, sir. Mr. Goldsmith, Do you know whether Mr. Bishop ever went by any other name? Mr, Hidalgo, No, sir, I have no knowledge of any of his other names, Mr. Goldsmith. Would you make your best effort, please, te describe Mr. Bishop's fiscal description? What did he look like? Mr, Hidalgo. I could not even make a mental image of Mr. Bishop right now. Mr. Goldsmith, Approximately how old is he today? Mr. Hidalgo. I don't know. This must seem strange to you, it really must, I know but, you see -- How can I say it? The relationship of one agent to another is a thing that you try your best not to -- not to know. Mr. Goldsmith. Was Mr. Bishop an administrator or a case officer? Mr. Hidalgo, I would say his position was higher than mine. A little honcho against a chief. Mr, Goldsmith. Where did you generally see him on those occasions when you did see him? a2 % Sd A ead ry ; oesy aioe | xX was jAslbs ar: Page 35
rary ae q aon ao ‘oO Docld: 322772271 st io JUL OL Rg 4 Mr. Hidalgo, I imagine in the agency perhaps, edt an 33 Mr. Goldsmith, For example, in the hallway, in the ce feteria? Mr. Hidalgo. In the hallways or cafeteria. Never cer- tainly at my desk, Mr. Goldsmith, What is your best recollection as to the number of times that you saw him? Mr. Hidalgo. A couple of times, two or three, Mr. Goldsmith. When you saw this individual and you knew that he was Maurice Bishop, how did you know that the gentleman that you had in mind was not that Maurice Bishop? Mr, Hidalgo, Someone might have said, "That is Maurice Bishop," and it was different from Dave Phillips or Hal Swenson guvs that I know. Mr. Goldsmith, Did you know a man named Firgault? Mr, Hidalgo, I don't think so, Mr. Goldsmith, At this time I would like to show you an exhibit, I believe it is JFK Exhibit No, 104, and I would like to ask you to examine that and to tell the committee whether yo recognize that individual, Mr. Hidalgo. I don't believe SO, sir, Mr. Goldsmith, Thank you. You can put that aside now, Did you know an individual named Antonio veciana Blanc? Mr. Hidalgo. Now this name sounds familiar to me in my Cuban operation, I don't know where, It may have been with fai eee ligne ee ne eee sete neha: i
nm 3 , : @ 5 fe) ? 3 3 ie 1] i2 _ i3 .@ + 1s é WV 12 1g 20 Docld: 32277221 siz Lo es . iUf SLbAL tue brigade or he may have been an.agent literally hundreds -~ hundreds -- of the Mr. Goldsmith. Did Mr. Bishop have affairs of the brigade? By brigade I am Bay of Pigs operation, 34 of an agent. I knew .Cubans, any involvement in the not referring to the Mr. Hidalgo. I don't know if he did. I was not aware of everyone, He might very well have been involved in this thing, : Mr. Goldsmith: Getting back to Mr. Bishop, when was the first time you saw him to the best of your memory? Mr. Hidalgo, I would think about the early Sixties. Mr. Hidalgo. No, in the early Sixties until the last time which I believe you said would have been late 1964 or early 1965 I left the Cuban another country of interest, so in those left that particular area, you no longer Mr, Hidalgo. If I did, it would be Mr. Goldsmith, Were you ever formally introduced to him? Mr. Goldsmith, And from the time that you first saw him that you saw him, about 1969 or 1970, approximately how many times did you actually see this man? Mr, Hidalgo. It would not have been that late because in operations and went to times, say 1960 to 1964, it might have been two or three times. Mr. Goldsmith, Is it fair. to say in light of your last comment that once you stopped working in Cuban operations, you saw Mr. Bishop? just in the hallway ane I don't think so. I was now in another part of the agency TAD arf
~ 3 & ~ 4 « o 10 12 ¢ tm . . i) 1s ord fy 1d 19 20 mi ae . 49 : a Docld: 32277221 4 49 8” A WA Bh 8 SUP uduhigs | | 35 taking TDY trips for that part of the agency. Mr. Goldsmith, So by that, in other words that would irfer that Mr. Bishop worked in the area of Cuban operations? Mr. Hidalgo. No, not necessarily. He might have worked in ~- you know, there are so many operations, He might have been transferred to somewhere else, I don't know. You see, where in the case of Hal Swenson and pave Phillips I continued to seek them out and say, "How are you, Dave? How are you doing?" Go to lunch, play some poker. In the case of Bishop this is not so, Mr. Goldsmith. Did you ever see Mr. Bishop at the JM wave station? Mr. Hidalgo. No. In the JM wave station you have to understand that I.was assigned to the IM wave station but I stayed away from the mM wave Station. It sounds peculiar. I was assigned there and yet I was not there, I was assigned there shortly after I went there and met my own cover and did my own operations. So-when I did go to the JM wave station, it was just a matter of just quickly in and get it over with. Mr. Goldsmith, Did you ever see Mr. Bishop's picture in the newspaper? Mr. Hidalgo. I may have, I don't recall, There was a time there after early 1964 where you could have asked me to identify my children and I could not have done it. That is wnen I had my second stroke and that.was when I left JM wave... nl HS B “ BY} 2 q 4 age 35 & & a Wo co aa 4 3 5 i
_ 36 I was evacuated actually out. Mr, Goldsmith, But you are certain nevertheless that re) during your stay at the agency on at least two or three occa- | sions you saw an individual whom you knew to be Maurice Bishop? da Mr, Hidalgo. Whom someone told me, "That is Maurice on Mr. Goldsmith. Mr, Chairman, I have no further questions | at this time. I may have a few follow-up questions. If the ry) committee has questions, I will yield at this time. NO = ” : / in to see just casually at the CIA are -- I don't know how to put 10 4 ' Mr, Preyer, All right. ot Mr, Fithian, 12 | Mr. Fithian. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 13 Do you get any feel for whether other people that you get this -- higher or lower on the pecking order? i$ \6 Mr. Hidalgo. Pardon? iF : Mr. Fithian, Do you have a feel for an individual that | 3 ! you see casually over at the agency as to whether or not they tS | are higher up in the structure? | | | 20 | Mr. Hidalgo, A feeling? i 1 Mr, Fithian. Yes. : Mr. Hidalgo.. You mean when I was working at the agency tm to r J 4 uy if I saw someone --. Mr, Fithian. You didn't see them, you were not working with them every day, you just see them from time to time, do > n =3 a HY psaeia fl Docld: 322772271 Page 39
nh Ce) da an om “oO =?) Docld: 32277221 ' 4 I Fl i ! t 4 1 t i ' tt t 1 4 t i i 4 t : 1 { ' } ' : ‘ 3 i ; i t { i | i i | | | | | | | | | | i | | | | { | i t ii st 4 it i | 4 i | you get a feel, whether by eating lunch or what they are doing,/; as to whether they are above you in rank or equal or whatever? Washington and not for Win Scott, the chief of the Mexican “station? someone's area on an operation, they would be advised that I Page 40 69a BLORE a. i 37 | | I | Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, I think I know what you are trying to | | | i | i | -Say. Essentially, yes, sir. Mr. Fithian. Do you have an impression that Biship was higher? Mr. Hidalgo. I would say he was a higher grade than I was. Mr. Fithian. Higher grade than you were? Mr. Hidalgo. Of course I was not a very high grade. | | Mr. Fithian. That is the only question I had, Mr. Chair- |! ‘man, | ! Mr, Preyer. Was your office in Langley in the CIA head- ! quarters? | Mr. Hidalgo. Yes. At the time I was in headquarters, : That is where I went. | Mr, Preyer. And Dave Phillips' office was also there? | Mr.. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. | Mr. Preyer. And you would go out occasionally on missions| such as going down to Mexico? Mr, Hidalgo, Yes, sir. i 1 t i | | ! { i i Mr. Prever. But you would be working for the CIA in Mr. Hidalgo. That is correct, sir. When I went to f Ge 3 a oe ma VL PaGEe
Yoga hood Bek 4 13d VLuTiL | would be coming into the country. Meeting with them, no. If 2 I need any contact, if I got into trouble and needed something, 3 I would always be able to call and they would recognize the a 4 | name and they would assist me if they could. e 5 } Mr, Preyer. You say you knew Dave Phillips well but you 6 didn't have an operation relationship with him, you didn't work > with him on operations. 3 Mr. Hidalgo, That is correct, sir. It is just, you know, | 3 two guys that met and happened to like each other. 10 | Mr. Preyer. Was his office near yours? 7 Mr. Hidalgo. It was on the same floor, 2 Mr. Preyer. Was he higher in rank or lower in rank than t "3 you? @ a Mr. Hidalgo. Higher, sir, 13 i Mr. Preyer. And . Maurice Bishop.'s office was not on 6 the same floor as yours in Langley? 1 Mr, Hidalgo. I don't know. It was a very large floor 13 and there were many people on the floor that had nothing to 6 do with what I had to do, 39 | . Mr, Preyer. Did Bishop have some relationship in his 20 | 3 appearance and age to Phillips? . al Mr. Hidalgo. Again I. cannot recall Bishop's appearance . 22 ; ny Mr. Preyer. Do you recall more on the name when people — a4 ae | said, "That is Maurice. Bishop"? | THD erTpar Docld: 322772271 Page 41 a | A a6: to Ag LE in i
nd aa on Docld: 32277221 an Mr. Hidalgo. Maurice a secretary or a fellow cas Mr. Preyer. All right Well, let me just ask answer this. Who is AMMUG? name, etc, Right now I can first name I believe was Vl dentially was Laddie. Mr. Preyer. He was a Mr. Preyer. Who was c Mr. Goldsmith. Thank questions if I may proceed. a couple of minutes here, & Sepeaireneabnanes Page 42 | | Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. | | | ! | | VEIL 4d Bishop,. right. It might have bean e officer or someone. . Thank you, one other question. Staff might Do we know him by any other name? At one time I could give you his only give you his first name, His adimer and the name I used confi- Cuban defector? Mr. Hidalgo. Yes, sir. onnected with Cuban intelligence? Mr. Hidalgo, yes, sir. Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Chairman, I state for the record the committee does have this individual's true name but just for ‘sake of security we are not referring to it. Mr. Preyer. All right. Mr. Hidalgo. I appreciate that. you, Mr, Preyer. Thank you. I have no further questions. Mr. Goldsmith, Mr. Chairman, I have just a few more How much time do I have? Mr. Preyer, Mr. Fithian andI will have to leave. you in Will it take you more than a few minutes or so?. We have got to go and vote, Teco |
q rs (eT) ow oO Docld: 32277221 vEL ee (a: bre 40 Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, . Mr, Preyer. The committee will stand in recess for about tar. minutes, (Whereupon, at 4:11 p.m., the committee recessed until. 4-24 p.m.) Mr, Preyer. The committee will resume its session. Mr, Goldsmith. Mr. Goldsmith. Thank you, Mr, Chairman. I will try to be brief. I have a few more questions for you, Mr. Hidalgo. Do you know whether David Phillips knew Meurice Bishop? Mr. Hidalgo. I don't know that. He may have known him but I don't know that. Mr, Goldsmith, Is it possible that the name Maurice Biship may have been an alias? Mr, Hidalgo. Very possible. Mr. Goldsmith. Why do you say that? Mr, Hidalgo. Because others in the agency thought that fact it was not. Mr. Goldsmith. So the use of aliases even at agency headquarters was not at all uncommon, is that true, to your knowledge? Mr. Hidalgo, That is true, | oy paeanes Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether Maurice Bishop was Page 43 they Knew me by X name and they called me by that name when in
nw wy da in ran @ wy) o wo Docld: 322772271 mee J9e VLE | t Mr, Hidalgo. No, sir. 42 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have any knowledge of any political assassination plots on the part of the CIA during the period 1960 through 1964? Mr. Hidalgo. Let me answer this way. “I-have-no -- as my attornry knows, I wanted to make a statement to this effect at the start, if I may make it now. I now nor never knew of any assassination plot by anyone in the United States Government, in any agency of the United States Government, any knowledge of any assassination plot, | Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Hidalgo, I asked you earlier whether you knew what the term Domestic Exploitation Section referred i to and I believe your testimony was that you did not. Mr. Hidalgo. That is right. It didn't make sense to me. Mr. Goldsmith. Is it possible that the Domestic Exploi- tation Section is a section that would have contacted persons in the United States -- for example, relatives of people who lived overseas -- in order to recruit those persons or to have ‘those persons assist the agency to recruit persons living overseas to assist the agency? Mr. Hidalgo. That might have been the domestic operations; but exploitation just does not make sense. You are right, it certainly could be something like that. Mr. Goldsmith. I have no further questions at this time, Thank you, Mr. Hidalgo. Pye erparr Page 45 4M EE WS ud Aa ia A
no & ba yn oO we cu Docld: 32277221 Send ty Vee 4. 43 | Mr, Fithian. I have:.a question, Mr. Chairman. On that last question, Mr. Hidalgo, that seems like such | a logical arrangement, whatever the name of it. As far as you know is that -— Mr. Hidalgo. It is a logical thing. It is a very logical sense, Mr, Fithian. Do you know if the agency engages in that? Mr. Hidalgo. I would imagine they are. It is a form of intelligence, Why not? Mr. Fithian. But do you of your personal knowledge know | | | | { that is or is not done? i ‘ Mr. Hidalgo. I have done it myself, yes, sir. Mr. Fithian, Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Preyer. Thank you, Mr. Hidalgo, We appreciate your being here today. Under our rules when a witness completes his testimony if "e or his counsel would care to make a statement for five minutes or less he is entitled to do so. If there is anything. further you would like to say at this time or add by way of explanation of any questions you may have answered, the committee will be glad to hear from you. © > ns FAIA pn SS SS a = Mr. Hidalgo. I can only sav, sir, that I came here a little afraid that I would have to name people whose lives ~ would have been in jeopardy if that name became known and to talk about things that would have placed me under possible OPA Fs VeGea i AS 2 4 ty a Page 46 os im OF:
Docld: 32277221 w da oO DOTS SU Le SS es Leesa ee ear nneO ane | 4 Page 47 swe YVR Y aq fe 4 44 criminal charges if I had done so. I am glad and I appreciate very much the way it has been handled and that such subjects have not come up. I thank you very much for the way you have cenducted it, Mr. Preyer. Thank you, Mr. Hidalgo. We appreciate your cooperation with the committee, | At this time the committee stands recessed. (Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the subcommittee recessed.) emer afl