480-10410-10029 v9.1 HY 4S0954 AGENCY : RECORD NUMBER : RECORD SERIES : AGENCY FILE NUMBER : ORIGINATOR : FROM: TO: TITLE: DATE: PAGES: SUBJECTS : DOCUMENT TYPE: CLASSIFICATION : RESTRICTIONS : CURRENT STATUS : DATE OF LAST REVIEW : OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : Doctld: 32263434 JFK Assassination System Date: 10/19/20 Identification Form Agency Information HSCA 180-10110-10029 SECURITY CLASSIFIED TESTIMONY 014739 Document Information HSCA [Restricted] 04/13/1978 155 CIA, FILES CIA, METHODOLOGY [Restricted] OSWALD, LEE, POST-RUSSIAN PERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO MEXICO CIA, STAFF TRANSCRIPT Unclassified 1A; 1B Redact 01/01/2003 Two duplicates in next folder. Original includes index.Box 9. Page i
7 TASCIONEYamt. ! 1-1 | 1a 4 EXECUTIVE SESSION | | | aa THURSDAY, APRIL 13, 1978 = a i U.S. House of Representatives, ' i , . A | i “ 3 | Subcommittee on the Assassina- x Md tion of John F. Kennedy of | & ‘| the Select Committee on | z= Assassinations, * _ | Washington, D.C. = to The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:15 a.m. | = woe i € = in room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Richardson = _ Preyer ’(Chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding. | Present: Representatives Preyer, Dodd, Fithian and BOEELDENG A | i _, | Sawyer. = ae Also present: G. R. Blakey, G. Cornwell, E. Berning, i i D. Hardway, B. Wolf, M. Goldsmith, R. Morrison, R. Genzman, = Zu l ~ i 5 .- | K. Klein and W. Cross. a “3 | Mr, Preyer. The Committee will. come to order, : - is The Chair recognizes the clerk of the Committee to read | = a c | a 2, a; | to be on the Subcommittee today, pursuant to Committee Rule 12.3. The Clerk, Mr. Chairman, you, Mr, Thone, Mr. Sawyer | | us a record of those members who are officially designated i i | H | | | and Mr. Dodd are regular members of the Subcommittee, Mr. | 4 23 | Fithian will be substituting for Mrs, Burke,
Mr. Preyer. Thank you. > de The Chair will entertain a motion to go into Executive | Session at this time. Mr, Sawyer. I so move, Mr, Chairman, Es | Mr. Preyer. There has been a motion that today's 5 sf hearing,cone that the hearing be held in Executive Session.. | 5 7 This is on the basis that information obtained by the | es 7 Committee, that the evidence or testimony may tend to degrade | = ‘ 2 | or incriminate people. : o | The Clerk will call the roll on the motion. ! : i! The Clerk, Mr. Preyer? ; | 3 | Mr. Preyer. Aye. | C i r e re + 'Phe Clerk, Mr. Thone? | | : id (No response) | : i The Clerk, Mr. Sawyer? = Ie Mr, Sawyer. aye. _ . | ; 17 | The Clerk, Mr, Dodd? | 2 7 | (No res ponse) . 2 19 | The Clerk, Mr. Fithian? | | = 20 | Mr. Fithian. Aye. | | | — a “Thecclerk. Three ayes, Mr.. Chairman. Mr, Preyer. The meeting is declared closed and the room will be cleared of all unauthorized personnel, ! ee ‘\ é AS na roe) Are you ready to call the witness at this time? Mr, Goldsmith. I have some statements I would like to | ALDESSSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. ‘HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 3
| Make off the record. \ o 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 Mr. Fithian. Would the witness please stand to be P * sworn? 2, | } 2° | Ms. Goodpasture. I have one problem. I cannot hear. v8 | Mr. Fithian. Can you hear if I come through at this af level? s § Ms, Goodpastrue. Yes, I use a hearing aid. It is not |! . s ‘| : . 4 ; | always reliable. I do not want you to waste my time and I a i z (10 do not want to waste too much of yours. = | Mr, Fithian. We will need to swear you in, Ms..Good- ._ ) Pasture. ra u = i © gq 13 ; Ms ..<Goodpasture. Do you want me to stand? S i = ot | . a i Mr, Fithian. Yes, please stand. am + ed 4 fa eu to . . = I ; ‘Do you swear thateéthe information you are about to . - i” give.to this Committee is the truth, the whole truth and oy 17 4 2 : nothing but the truth, so help you God? a a | Ms, Goodpasture, Yes, ~ aod ‘ 5 20 | | “a1 tt Sed 22 i oo, i 22 | ° : if Hi 50955 1-3 ALOERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. t ' i:
q JOH 7TH STREET, SU. REPORTERS BUTLER ENG, UALHLNGYON, D.C. 20026 (202) $64-2945 HW 350955 DBocld:322763434 Page 5 ee de “a 6) a> “ hb - a red a TESTIMONY OF ANN GOODPASTURE Mr. Goldsmith. Would you state your name and address for the record? , | 'Ms. Goodpastrue, My name is Ann Goodpasture. My local address is with friends in Maryland, 5600 Bridgeview. My mailing address, at the moment, is in care of my father in Livingstone, rapnessee. Mr, Fithian. If I may, now that we have your name on the record and your address, I would like to explain our proceedings here, Miss Goodpasture. -: The House Resolution 222, under which this Subcommittee | acts, mandates that the Committee conduct a full and complete investigation and study of the circumstances surrounding the ' assassination and. the death of President John F. Kennedy including determining whether the existing laws of the United | States concerning the protection of the President and the investigatory jurisdiction and capability of agencies and departments are adequate in their provisions and enforcement; tion. among agencies and departments of the United States government; and whether any information or evidence not in thespossession of an. agency or department would have been of assistance in investigating the assassination; and why such information was not provided or collected by that agency or. ON department; and to make recommendations to the House, if the ALBERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
i. rae) no tay Na oo Oo ad os i 300 7TH STREET, SoU REPORTERS BULLBTNG, HALA TNCTON, Nec. 2NG2H C207) $5u-23n5 ES ps oe ad A / aay 1-5 “ Sdlect Committee deems it appropriate, for the amendment of existing legislation or the enactment of new legislation. I would like, because of the special expertise of this witness, if counsel will withhold for just. a moment, say a word or two about the process that we are engaged in. ‘First, we commend you for your long years of service to a very, very important agency of this government. Ts personally was a part of that in a very, very small way in the Navy a long time ago, and I commend you for your dedica- tion and your experience and what has come to be your reputa- | tion. for, as we have. talked with other members of the agency, they have referred tovyou as sort of the touchstone, or the *" person who was the ‘expert among the experts... | I want to say also that I personally want to commend | our Chief Counsel, Professor Blakey, and our assistant | | counsels for their long and dilligent effort to build a | xelationship with the agencies which is now beginning to he extremely productive and fruitful in our whole process of trying to get all the information and to lay the matter of the assassination of the President of the United States to rest permanently with the complete story. I just wanted you to know that we have. been working | with the CITA and the. FBI and they have been very cooperative | with us as well as the State Department in: the two investi- | gations in which we are now engaged, and I look forward to + RSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
| | | 1~6 & _ | your testimony today as a person of longstanding and long H experience with one of the key agencies in the United 3 ou, | States government and hope that we can proceed today to fit in. some pieces of the mosaic that we are trying to assemble. 4 s | . . x 4 Counsel may proceed.. \ ” "| Mr. Goldsmith. Miss Goodpasture, have you received a ~ S - | oa fi. ’ . . . ~ | copy of the Committee Rules and the Committee Resolution? = i Ms. Goodpasture.. Yes, you gave mé a copy yesterday. a i SF = Mr. Goldsmith, What is your present empitoyment status, - 10! é | Miss Goodpasture? = i Ms. Goodpasture. Pardon me? = 4g | : a i Mr, Goldsmith. What is your present employment status, | = ; @ = “Miss Goodpasture? 4 i Ms. Goodpastrue. I am retired. = . cm 13.4 , . = i -Mr.Goldsmith. Were you formerly employed with the Zig | - | Central Intelligence Agency? a I: a | Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. = | Mr. Goldsmith. What.was yoursterm of service with the . - | CIA? e : : S20 | Ms. Goodpasture, What was my term of service? BE Mr. Goldsmith. How many years were you with the CIA? ip —— ! Ms. Goodpasture.. Over 31. 23 | . ~ @ ; { | | Mr. Goldsmith. At this time, I would like to refer to | Exhibit 94, Would the Clerk please hand that to the witness? a Wa in Miss: Goodpasture --. ALEERSOM RESORTING COMPANY, INC. WW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 7
Ms. nm res) de wed = § ee 1 a , | t ae Ms... ~ i a 7 | ~ | Mr. = i & 7G Ms. “ ‘ 4 ot S ~ Mr: = t ~ 10: S i Ms. co oho = _ Mr. #3 x -: it a Te i = asi = 4 * taj ~ | Ms. ~ | “ VW I at z js | TA = 1} 390n e n> ~ fn différent branches, but most.of the time I was outside of the United States and it came under what is now called the Director of Operations, or clandestine service. .I suppose Goodpasture. I.read this yesterday. Mr. Goldsmith. ~~ Exhibit No. 94 is a copy of a letter | Chairman of this Committee. I believe a copy was given to ‘ | | | | you yesterday, is. that. correct? Goodpasture. Yes. Goldsmith. Did you read that letter yesterday? Goodpasture. Yes. Goldsmith. Did you understand that letter? Goodpasture. Yes, Goldsmith. You indicated that. you. worked with the i , , . Central Intelligence Agency for 31 years. Which branch withi i i the CIA did you work for? Goodpasture. For the entire length of time? Goldsmith. Yes, Goodpasture. Well, I worked for a number of that would be a more appropriate term, Mr. Goldsmith. Fine, When did you retire from the CIA? Ms. Goodpasture. I think it was in June, 1973. Mr, Goldsmith. Miss Goodpasture,.I am drawing your attention to 1963. Where were you stationed at that time? REHSON REFORTING COMPANY. INC. t i i i} ' i i i ‘ } written by the present Director of Central Intelligence to the i H 4 4 i | ' H | Nh “ft i i i
2002% (202) S5m-2945 REPORTERS WOTEDTHG, WASTING TON , h.e, aM, cag wt 1 IAA PTH STREET, = tnd Bn tn ™ oo ea 1-8 Ms. Goodpasture. Where was I stationed at that time? Mr, Goldsmith. Yes, ‘Ms. Goodpasture. ‘Here in Washington. Oh, 1963? Excuse me, Mr, Goldsmith. Yes. Ms. Goodpasture. I thought you said '73.\ I was stationed in Mexico City. Mr. Goldsmith. In what capacity were you stationed in Mexico City? Ms, Goodpasture, I was a staff employee of the CIA in the Embassy working under cover of the State Department. Mr. Goldsmith. “What were your responsibilities as a staff employee at that time? Ms. Goodpasture. .I worked as a case officer on liaison . projects with. the Mexicans and liaison with other government agencies, represented in the Embassy. -I did routine clerical office functions, originating correspondence, answering correspondence. Mr. Goldsmith. What type. of liaison work did you do with the Mexican government? Ms. Coodpasture.. What type of se susou ee oy whol “Mr. Golsmith. --«liaison work aia you do with the Mexican government, | a - Ms, Goodpasture. What type of inside? Mr. Goldsmith. Liaison. You indicated that. you did 1
1-9 | liaison work withthe Mexican government. | 2 Ms. Goodpasture. Electronic surveillance. | 3 Mr, Goldsmith. Who was the Chief of Station? | © . ° Ms. Goodpasture. Winston Scott. : : 5 Mr. Goldsmith. Is it appropriate to refer to you as | 2 3 having been. Winston Scott's righthand man during your term. | = = 7 | of service in Mexico City? _ | § 3. ‘Ms. Goodpasture, I take exception to that. First of oF | all,; I am not a man;.and second, I think that his righthand | = 10 | person was his Deputy who participated in all the decision- | E iz making processes, which I did not, and acted for Mr. Scott ; ' in his absence. i > : 3 A lot of people said that I was Winn's right hand because™« ; 4 at times he asked me to do things for him that he did not ask | = i - 1s other people to do. He depended upon me for certain projects | : '¢ | that he managed, or he wanted to manage, and I did the legwork “ my for it. | = 8 I would not say that I was his right hand in the entire | , = % station. | ! 5 20 Mr. Goldsmith. How many years did you work in Mexico | & 2 nO re 4 j Ms. Goodpasture, Eleven, | tb 4b Mr. Goldsmith. Were you working with Mr. Scott that ES ay J’ i entire time? ae, . _ : i ‘ Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, He was there first. ut , 7 4 ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 450955 Docld: 32263434 Page i0
ti) bald I = Seti Ca) ~ 3 a H 1 iy - - | wt 3 -~ t | os fy ~ | a a =. 3 iu Lond . . | “ i i = (10 S \ a I = 1] i = id = i = we = i Ty} _ it = | wt HI os ui = 13 | s 4 = og | 16 H a4 = i “a \7 | sd “ . 4 & i = 18 | EF ~~ E39 | S 20 | { ard af = -? od a.) < Al ®) { et as nd roe wa tn i HW 50955 Docld:32963434 Page 11 Mr. Goldsmith. You indicatéd that you were not involved in the actual decision-making process, Were you privy to the actual decision-making process? Ms.. Goodpasture. It depended upon what. it concerned. If it was a project that I worked on, I participated in it, but if it were a station activity, I did not. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you work at the station in Mexico City also involve occasionally making contact. with CIA agents in the field? Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, Mr, Goldsmith. Would you give the Congressional panel an evaluation of Winn Scott's competence as the Chief of Station? Ms. Goodpasture. ‘Well, I think that he was a very conscientious man, he was a hardworking man, he expected ot everyone else to do théir work, he worked long hours. Some people felt, or expressed the opinion, in my presence, that he was a hard worker and expected too much from employees, but I do not think that that was really the case. He was a very conscientious man, an intelligent man. He obviously had the intelligence for the post, or he would not. have been assigned there. Mr. Goldsmith. Is. the Mexico City station one of the largest CIA stations in operation? Ms. Goodpasture, At. the present time, I do not know. | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
| 1-12 | official files that could be destroyed without a certificate | o 4 | of destruction béing made. TRat. did not apply to our rough | , | notes that we made, But you could not take a file out, go oo - 4. | through it and tear it up because you did not ‘like ‘something | F ol a Mr. Goldsmith, It Has been said of Mr. Scott that | & | during his tenure in Mexico City not even a shred of. paper | & | was thrown out or moved from the Mexico City station files, = : $ : Would you say that is an accurate statement? _ | : 10 | Ms. Goodpasture. some of the rough paper was thrown ! Z 1] out, the rough paper that. he considered supporting data for a Po dispatch that he had written or a cable that he sent, he kept, | a = 13 | He insisted that other people do the. same thing. | = i . z ‘ Mx. Goldsmith, Fine. | é is | At this time, I am going to get into the area of the | E 7 survefllance operations in Mexico City. | | i 7 | ‘Miss Goodpasture, what kinds of surveillance operations | a § | ata eheco have. in Mexico City in 1963 with respect to the | z 17 | Soviet and Cuban consulate and embassies? | 5 = Ms , Goodpasture, Well, we had electronic surveillance, | _- 2 ‘wiretaps, which. covered telephone. conversations. : bal 2 Mr. Goldsmith, If I may interrupt you for a moment, could ‘ bo i ro we St aan Ms. Goodpasture, We had electronic surveillance, — iu ; i 4 ALOERSON ZESORTING COMPANY, INC.
ij ; l-13 1 | wiretaps on the telephones in. the Soviet Embassy, and we had photographic surveillance, ihe 2 ‘There was also what they called foot.surveillance at | @ 4 | times, when people were interested, they could find out where | | = § i they were staying, where they went from the Soviet Embassy. 5 6 _ Mr. Goldsmith, That would be physical surveillance? 5 7 | Ms. Goodpasture,. Right. : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Turning first to the area of photographic : 5 surveillance, what was the purpose of the. photographic | : 10 | surveillance project with regard to the Soviet and Cuban | 2 a embassies and consuls? ! § 12 ! ' Ms. ‘Goodpasture. My understanding of that was that it | > : 12 was to be used to identify those people who might be working : 14 for the Soviets as espionage agents who were U.S. citizens : 13 -who went down there driving a Car with a U.S. license plate . | = i \ = 14 on it, or people we did not know but could identify. | S 17 | . The Same procedure was also used for trying to. identify 3 : 13 people other than U.S. citizens, but it was concentrated in | z 19 / the beginning on license plates or numbers, or something that = 1 | could be identified. | | — 2] Mr. Goldsmith, An attempt would be made to take pic- | ec pa’ 22 tures of both the car, license plates and the occupants of I 22 the car, is that correct? | & ae Ms. Goodpasture,. Yes. bo day Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. COMPANY, INC. 3 i- i) i “ih us } [ GO
Lle1l At that time, it. was one of the largest ones in Latin America, but not in comparison to the other places, I could not “comment on the size of the other places. ba io) Mr. Goldsmith. What kind of attitude did Mr. Scott | . = 5 ij have towards the importance of files and recordkeeping systems 5 j at the Mexico City station? = | Ms. Goodpasture. He was very conscientious. He wanted | : 2} them maintained accurately and completely. : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. How long were the files that he main- | : to | tained preserved? | : 1 | | Ms. Goodpasture. Well, I am not too sure about that. = 12 | They were there up until the time that I left, but I think | 2 | de : 13 | that there was a reduction because of space in 1969. ‘The | z td | files were cut Back, but I do not: have firsthand knowledge ce i . E is | of that because I did not participate’ in'it, | x i a = is | Mr. Goldsmith. During the time that you were in Mexico | 4 7 | City with Mr. Scott, to your knowledge was anything ever | He | : "2 | thrown out of destroyed from the Mexico City station files? a | ; = | Ms. Goodpasture. Well, several things were destroyed 5 2 | that were not considered of any value -as far as the work at | an that. time was concerned. We looked at it more or less like | | { 4 . . ‘ . ye * | keep cash register receipts for a grocery bill. There was a ; , limitation of space on just how long you could keep certain nD a ; things. Wo aa But there were no documents that were a part of the | i * HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page i4
1-14 Turning now to the photographic surveillance operation | with regard ta the Soviet Embassy and consulate, I would ts like to ask you, what role, if any, did you play with regards | * | to this surveillance operation during 1963? . | ° 5: 5 | “Ms, Goodpasture. ‘In 1963, I was more or less a bystander ‘| of that operation because the operation, at times, was conducted 5 7 by another case officer. . . ; : : a I screened and looked at the photographs because I had | : a been there in the early part of the operation where the | z ‘9 ! photograph. bases were first set up, were first used. I had | 3 if E Ny an interest in them, or looked at them to see that they were | : 2 | in focus, that the negatives were all printed, and Mr, . = i © g Scatt. asked me to do that because I had been a commercial. z “ photograplier before I went to work for the government, | é 1 Mr. Goldsmith, Are you saying, in 1963, your roll : is | with regard to the photographic surveillance at the Soviet : : " Embassy was to review photographs, essentially to evaluate ; z 8 : their quality? | = an Mss Goodpasture. Theix technical quality. | - | Mr, Goldsmith, Not for the purpose of obtaining subse~ an quent information from the photographs? | : AS aa Ms. Goodpasture. No, because, at that time, by 1963 | | there was a.staff there who had been assigned to work on) 24 | © Soviet. matters and it was.their function to. investigate the 25 , leads -- we called them leads -= to try to identify the person ; ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Boacldad: 32263434 Page 15
; 1-15 | | at the Soviet. embassy they were interested in. — | 7 So all the raw material went.to them. I usually took | 2) a quick look at the photographs when they came in, and if | | I noticed anything significant about them, I mentioned it to | : S| the Soviet case officer, but. he. gave the formal reporting on | a 6] ai the Soviet information. & "| “Mr. Goldsmith. I understand. | | é : How many cameras were in. operation with regard to the : ¢ | photosurveillance of the Soviet Embassy and consulate? | J i . | = aa Ms . Goodpasture;: Three, There were three, generally. | Z n | There could be any number, if we wanted to put some on | 3 | ' 2 | ene street; Dut at that time, I think there were only three. | a A 13 Mr, Goldsmith. Where were these cameras located? | = Hl Ms. Googpasture. Where? a | Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, | = | Ms, Goodpasture.. ‘They were located around the building. “ m | the embassy building, to cover the area in the yard and in | : 8 ) the front gate. . ! E aa Mr. Goldsmith, So the cameras were situated so that | = x ) they would photograph the yard. area and front entrance gate? Ke Ms . Goodpasture, Yes. | BS an - 7 aa : vn i Mr, Goldsmith. During this period, was. your role with } " regards to this project at any time of a supervisory nature, : sty * actually supervising the project? _ | Ms... Goodpasture, Informally it could have been interpreted ALDERSON S=EPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 16
1-16 t | | | in that. way, But I never had the responsibility for them | | dab b> alone, Mr. Goldsmith, As a practical matter, you were acting o + . in an informal supervising capacity? | | | 3 5 Ms. Goodpasture. It could have been interpreted that : 38 | way. by some of the people ; because they would come to me and 5 7 Bring me photographs and say, what do you think of this, do é you. think. that this ts a hatin, er do you think he has ever | “ i | soF been to the Soviet Embassy. before, | ad : i z 10 Mr. Goldsmith, In your own opinion do you think you | 3 a were ‘acting, at least informally, in a supervisory capacity | = 12 with regards to this project? | (> = ig Ms, Goodpasture, No. | | i¢ Mr, Goldsmith.. “At this time, I would like for the > | | Fa Q = 1s witness: to be given Stack. C of the documents that have been | ; Is prepared. | | | “ '7 _ (Pause) : is | I would like to draw your attention to page 2 of the = "9 | documents that appear in Stack c. = 2 | Mss: Goodpasture. Yes« Ke ‘Mr. Goldsmith, 1 would like to ask you if you can | © pa? 2 identify that document. = | . | . ae Mss Goodpasture. This looks like a copy of a cable sent © ae from the Mexico station.on the sth of October. © : 2 Mr. Goldsmith, To whom would the cable have been sent? : LOSRSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
7 1-17 Ms, Goodpasture, It was sent to Washington. 2 | Mr .Goldsmith. CIA Headquarters? 3 | Ms. Goodpasture. CIA Headquarters. © + | Mr. Goldsmith. I would like to have you examine the Es 5 cable in more detail. I call your attention to the first 2 6 paragraph. . What does the term "the envoy” mean? = 7 Ms. Goodpasture. What was that again? g & Mr. Gohdsmith. Iam sorry. I am drawing your atten- goF | tion to the first paragraph. & i = 10 Ms. Goodpasture, Yes . : ri Mr... Goldsmith. The second word ==— = Mm Ms. Goodpasture. Page two? | @ = 13 Mr. Goldsmith. Page two. There appears a word "the : 4 envoy." What does that word mean? | : 13 ' Ms. Goodpasture. That was a cryptonym to identify = 18 the telephone surveillance, Instead of saying a telephone . ” 1% tap operation we used crytonyms for all of the things that zs 8 | involved assets outside that. could be identified, a E 3 ! : Mr. Goldsmith. I am not drawing your attention to the 5 2¢ | upper lefthand corner of this document .: There appears the Se : word "orig." What does that stand for? - oO pe ® Ms. Goodpasture. The person who wrote the cable . " vr. Goldsmith, Does. that stand for originating officer? © “ Ms. Goodpasture . Right. * Mr. Goldsmith. You say the originating officer is the Y ! ALMEF SON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 DocId: 32263434 Page 18
. person who wrote the cable, correct? Ms... Goodpasture, In this case, it is. Mr, Goldsmith. . Who was identified in this document as the originating officer, Loe) . i i | tse Ms. Goodpasture. The originating officer is Mr. Herbert> 2 7 Minell, = vi | Mr. Goldsmith. Please listen to my questions carefully | S : and just answer my questions. I think you may be trying to 3 + | anticipate. | : 10 | Who is identified in the upper lefthand corner as the | Z u person who issued the document? What name is given? s M2 | - Does it say L.A. Dilinger?: a : 12, - Ms’, Goodpasture, Yes, | . Oo | = in Mr. Goldsmith, Is the term LiA. Dilinger a pseudonym? | : | Ms. Goodpasture, Right. | a i < is | Mr. Goldsmith, It.is sa pseudonym for Herbert Minell? 2 “ "| Ms.. Goodpasture. That is right. : : 18 Mr, Goldsmith. I take it that. these documents commonly | E 7 | used pseudonymns , is that correct? — — | | 5 = Ms. Goodpasture. In almost all cases that was the | sae practice. | | : @ «=, Mr. Goldsmith, What would be thé purpose of usinga | | pseudonym? ~ nD oe Ms, Goodpasture, In case the document happened to fall outside classified control, it would Be meaningless to the ALTERSON SEPCRTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DocId: 32263434 Page 19
! | 1-19 | people who picked it up than if the true name were on it. i) Mr. Goldsmith. I. understand. Leé us take a look at the lower righthand corner of es this same document. It says, releasing officer. What is E > a. releasing officer? : a] Ms, Goodpasture. We Cc. Curtis, That was a. pseudonym 5 7 for Winston Scott. | | | S a! Mr. Goldsmith, Understood. : | J a What is a releasing officer? What are his responsibil- | : io | ities? ! 2 "i f Ms. Goodpasture. The supervisor, the person who decides = 2 | that the message should he sent; generally the releasing offi-+ © : 13 cer is the chief , the senior person there at the time, - the 4 = | person who will assume responsibility for the message after | : is it has been transmitted. | | : My Mr, Goldsmith. The message would go =- | “ | ‘Ms, Goodpasture, ‘For instance, in an Embassy , Lf a ! z. 7 document goes to the communications. center signed by someone é iF who is not thé senior person. in the section, they will not. S | send it; just everybody cannot take a message to the message oe center and say, send this cable to Washington. So this is to make sure that.the Chief of the Section knows. that is: going on by everybody in his section. Mr. Goldsmith, I would not like to draw your. attention os mad to page 5 of Stack C, That pertains to a different ‘cable, but. . : ' ts F . ALOERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. Hw 50955 _ Bocld: 32263434 Page 20 ,
, 1-200 7 simply for the purpose of clarifying terminology, I would | ad 2 : like you to look at the lower righthand corner where it says, | | sauthentdcating Officer," | ad * : What. is. an authenticating officer? | 5 5 | Ms. Goodpasture. Well, this cable originated in a ‘| Washington and in Washington there are more than one chief, | a i! . = a so the person who signs off on dton- it may be a Branch Chief. S 7 In this case, it was the Division Chief. | < 9 | He approved sending the cable and then his superior | ' H = ig | réleased it. | - A Eu Mr, Goldsmith, So the authenticating officer would:be | = 2 someone. under the releasing officer, is that correct? | | ih : 13 ' Ms. Goodpasture, Well, to be sure about that, you i = TA would have to check with the communications peopke on their ! : ‘3 practices, but T think that sometimes it could be the same. : . i If the authenticating officer were the Section Chief, “ 7 then the Section Chief could also release the message. | E . Mr. Goldsmith, Were you ever an authenticating officer? E | Ms, Goodpasture, Nog. Well, I have ‘signed off on cables : | going out from Headquarters at times, I am sure. SS | Mx, Goldsmithe:. Only from Headquarters? ! © 7 | la * Ms. Goodpasture. The fact that you sign there as an : 7 _ 3 |) authenticating officer does that mean that that is a title, > an It means that you were the person who were probably best. informed on that: subject, I think, & ALD ERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 21
ih) jn & . Ww o - bal P) OME ' a 3 wa Q ~ ~ ' o 7 a / ~ a 3 2 = P= U™ . ral “3 7 Fang = 9 = 10 = S am x = I Jeet ‘ “3 s le _ (5 . = ; = 120 a = = S «Kaas 2 oa i) = = 16 = “ 7 . Sd oe Pie el = iG od mn = lF : ~ e o aq beat 29 a1 wt ee Ce ml tory Ss ee ¢ Ts is 6 Ww tap l=21 Mr. Goldsmith. For purposes of clarification, is it the responsibility of the authenticating officer to verify | the contents of the cable? Ms. Goodpasture. It might be, I do not know. Mrs Goldsmith. What would the specific purpose of an authenticating officer be? | | Ms. Goodpasture; I never went into that terminology with ‘anyone. Mr.Fithian. Would the counsel permit a question? Mr .GGoldsmith. Yes, sir, . Mx, Fithian. In our Navy communications sytem, we sometimes distinguished between. an authenticating officer as one who not only authorized the sending of the cable, but authenticated or verified or vouched for, the content. Is that similar? Ms, Goodpasture, That would be the literal interpre- tation of the word.. Whether ornot it was used in air traffic | all the time or not, I do not know. | -’ My guess would be that that is correct. Mr. Fithian. Do you know whether, in CIA traffic, officer. for. a single message? Ms, Goodpasture. I think that there were times when one person. could sign Both places, Mr, Fithian, Thank you, counsel, ALDERSON SESORTING COMPANY, INC. you had to have Hoth an authenticating officer and a releasing | i } ( | i 3 { Hl i | \ t
| Mr. Goldsmith, Would the phrase authenticating officer | | ! | appear only on cable traffic that originated at headquarters? | 2 | Ms. Goodpasture. I do not know. You would have. to x + : compare the field forms and headquarters forns to be sure | Es | of that. 5 | Mx, 2Goldsmith. ‘on those occasions when you acted as = 3 | 5 . Be . , — | authenticated officer, did you see your purpose as being that | of verifying the contents of the cable for accuracy? | S 9 | Ms. Goddpasture.” Yess.” PEt b m aute thaet gs Stee Eo | : io hs 0 Mary Goldsinitthienz would» Like,to:.go"nowito page 2°0fte | pa i ! 2 nd the ‘documents. contained, in- Stack C and I.would like you to. | 3 12 read the: second paragraph. | . 8 : 3 pause) = ‘4 i Ms, Goodpasture, Yes. a | : re Mr, Goldsmith, Was the photograph referred to in this : 2 Is paragraph obtained by the CIA's photo. surveillance operation : 4 iT | of the Soviet Embassy? i : ig Ms.,.Goodpasture.. Yes. : z + | Well, this message has a mistake in ht which was. not. , 5 20, noted at. that time in paragraph 2, and that is the date, | Koen Mr. Goldsmith. We will get to that later on to clarify | nt “Would you tell the Committee what the scope of the | r am coverage of the Soviet Emhassy and consulate was? By: that, 25 I mean. in September and October, 1963, at. what times were the ! ALDERSCM ZESOCRTING COMPANY, INC.
- | Soviet Embassy and.consulate under surveillance? | ci 2 Ms. Goodpasture,’ I cannot give you the exact times. | 3 | I can, guess, and my guess is that they were open most of ae the time when the consulate was opened for business hours. | ES 3] But the person who would have that information, the only | ° | person who would know, is the case officer who was handling | : 7 | the project at that time, . a Mr. Goldsmith. Even though you were acting in what you | : a regard as an informal supervisory capacity, you do not | : 0 | recall? | 2 i | Ms. Goodpasture, No, because a year ago I tried to . : 12 | find that specific information from the records and I could | o : 13 | not find it, and r: do not know. _ I am sorry. I cannot answer | : is Mr. Goldsmith, Fine. | | = 1é Lam sorry. It has just Been drawn to my attention that, ° 7 | we should clarify -- | | 2 | Ms. Goodpasture, I did not answer that paragraph 2. i z 7 | T noticed that.. Photograph, yes. ‘That was my fault, not yours. 5. | antes to correct that date so you would not get the impres- axe) | ston that there was a photograph on-the 1st of October because. © pal 22 the photograph. was made on the 2nd of October, But it was, made | 73 | by the survefllance fromthe Soviet Embassy. ao 3 Mr... Goldsmith, Pine. ae i You indicated that the scope of the coverage, to your ALDERSON RESCRTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 24
| | _ l-24 H \ knowledge, was probably at such time as the Soviet Embassy | and consulate was open, in other words, working hours. Is | that correct , to the best. of your knowledge? @ sf Ms» Goodpasture, I think that. it was at working hours. | Es ; | Mr, Goldsmith. What were the working hours of the Sovie 2 ‘| bnbassy and. consulate in September and October, 1963? | = | Ms. Goddpasture.” I- do. notcknow, : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. How many years did you.work in Mexico | “ NS ia | Ms. Goodpasture. Eleven, | Mr. Goldsmith. Working in Mexico City for eleven VASHTHO TON, . years and you do not know what the working hours were? | = : iD Ms. Goodpasture: . The Soviet: Embassy changed their | : 4 | working hours frequently. ‘Their consulate might be open From | 2 | 8:00 to 10:00 on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays or they | ; is might change it from 10:00 to 12:00 on Tuesdays and rhursdays. = . | : 7 But for me to say now that in September, 1963, without having | : a document. to prove ‘it, that.they were open from 10:00 to 3 = 9 : 12:00 would be rather foolish because I really do not kwow what their Hours were at that time. | ee Mr. Goldsmith. Let. us refer to a document , then. Wait | @ *<% | tne clerk hand the witness Stack D? | ae Drawing your attention to page 3 == | ao a Ms, Goodpasture. -Right.: 7 ! ° Mr,. Goldsmith. In Stack D, can you identify this - | ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 25
‘1-25 ) document? | a Ms. Goodpasture. “It looks like a cable that was sent | * to Mexico, ad a “Mr, Goldsmith, Is that cable 9332? 3 a Ms, Goodpasture,.-: Right. 3 ‘| Mr. Goldsmith, would like to ask you to read the | at x 7 first paragraph. of that cable, E | Ms. Goodpasture.. It has the normal work hours there. | “ i : | ae Mr. Goldsmith. Does this cable accurately reflect what | z aan the normal. working hours were of the Soviet Embassy? | = u Ms < Goodpasture. I do not. kriow.. -The work hours are | . 2 listed here, but I do not know who. originated this.cable. | - lt : 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Who was. the ‘authenticating officer on | g sj Ms. Goodpasture, I did, But I could not. find this. | a. : is message last year. : “ | Mr. Goldsmith. The answer to the question who the | z 8 authenticating officer was is: you? oo. | = a Ms. Goodpasture. Right. | | - * “Mr, Goldsmith, fhere on page 4 it indicates that the | see authenticating officer was: R. By. Riggs- S29 22 | -- 7 . : ap x Ms.. Goodpasture, That was my pseudo, : | i “Mr, Goldsmith, In light of the fact that you were — i +3}! . , ~ Ms. Goodpasture. I do not have a memory of the specific BLDERSOM REZORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DocId:32263434 Page 26 on
- HW 509455 1 2 3 4 4 et = & = 3 oe d a 6 _ ~ . os / Shas 3 3 Long m™ . * 45 ¥ Fo = 19 Se = oY a x c = 43 = ta He = > eS n V7 = 2 18 in = 1? = aS e 20 cn narra Be 35 LASS ~ 23 34 38 Ac “Popitch at FBI. I think that it is the stack that we just put hours. at that time, . 7 Mr. Goldsmith. I would like, at this point, to refer | “your attention to pagel of the documents containéd in Stack | De I would like. to. ask you to read the first two parar sis. graphs. 7 | (Pause) Ms. Goodpasture, The first paragraph? \ Mr. Goldsmith. It is labelled up top, memo to Mr. | by your right hand. I would like to ask you to read the first. two paragraphs. Ms. Goodpasture. The first. paragraph? Mr. Goldsmith. The first two paragraphs. (Pause)... | Ms. Goodpasture,- Yes. Mr, Goldsmith. Does the information contained in this document contradict the information that. is. ‘contained -- | . | disregard that question. | . The question I have now is, according to this. document, | i it. appears that the photograph surveillance was of a continu- | ous nature during daylight hours. Ms. Goodpasture, No, | | Mr, Goldsmith. What I am.saying, according to this document, tHe photograhpic surveillance of the Soviet Embassy | and consulate was of a continuous nature during daylight - SOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. é ALGERSON Docld:32763434 Page 27 Som Se ES SINS
HW 450955 MASIOTUICTON , m.C: 20024 (202) SS4-23n5 REPOREERS BYTEDTHG , a, 5. Bocld: i ION Tt STREET, .. hours,’ Ms. Goodpasture, We are talking about. two different i) 2) things here, The surveillance, someone was available there, | . . . : but they did not make pictures, They may have been watching | sj the activity from 9:00 o'clock in the morning until 1:00 } i x) | ofelock and may have only made two pictures, one at 11:00 33 7 and one at 12:00.: As far as photographic surveillance being continuous, ‘that would be really inaccurate because it was not a camera 7 | 10 | making a picture of every minute’s. activity. nl Mr, Goldsmith. However, there were personnel stationed | 2 at. positions outside the Soviet Embassy compound who had ; ig photographic equipment available and who could take. pictures | at any time during daylight hours, is that correct? | is Ms. Goodpasture. I do not know whether it would be or | Ig not. Atvany time during daylight hours? | | " “Mr. Goldsmith. I am drawing your attention to the second paragraph of this document, page 1, the very first wa Oo sentence of that. paragraph. It. says the photographic 20 ) coverage of the mentioned installations is of a continuous SEE 7 nature during. daylight hours. Is that an accurate statement? pa? & Ms. Goodpasture. I think in. November of 1973 =- | * Mr.. Goldsmith. '63, : | * “Ms, Goodpasture «= after the assassination, the case © 2 officers ordered their people to Be on duty continuously, I |
1-28 am not sure of that. That probably may have prompted this i | | Statement... . Mr. Goldsmith. This documented is’ dated November 27, © + | / 1963. | | : 7 _ Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. S ‘| Mr. Goldsmith, Is that correct? 5 7 Ms. Goodpasture. That is the date that is on the S 3 document , ¢ Mr. Goldsmith. - This document seems to indicate, does e z (0 it not, that ‘the photographic coverage of the installations : Ho was of a continuous. nature during daylight hours. Is that . a i = 2 correct? © 2 9 Ms. Goodpasture; That is what the document says here. = at Mr, Goldsmith, This. was-a document that was. given to : is the FBI by the CIA, Is the informationscantained in this - = 18, document accurate as far as that specific sentence is . ' | Concerned? - : z a Ms. Goodpasture.. I. assume it is. This. memorandum was a . E 19 | written in Washington, though, at headquarters. = 2 Mr.. Goldsmith. In your previous answer, you seemed to a be suggesting that this document referred to the coverage oo pe ‘> | of the embassies after November 22, 1963,. I am referring 4 ae to the period of September-October '63.. 'Ms,: Goodpasture,. I think that this memorandum was written to tell them the coverage that had been instituted ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 29
I after the assassination. | 2 | Mr Goldsmith, For purposes of clarification, to the | 2 best of your knowledge, what.was the scope of the photographie @ + : surveillance of the Soviet Embassy in September and October 5 s : 1963? — ! 3 2 | Ms. Goodpasture, What. is that? | = ae Mr, Goldsmith. For purposes of clarification, to the | ~ | S a Best of your knowledge, what was the photographic -- what | e i. was the scope of the photographic surveillance coverage of | = the Soviet Enbassy and consulate in September. and October, 2 Wd 1963? | | - aan MS. Goodpasture. During the hours that that office | : 13 | /would have been opencto receive. visitors: from the public, | 2 | “Mr, Goldsmith. Would the clerk please now hand to the | : ral witness the stack labelled A? i . Is | Stack A contains actually four sub-stacks, A-l. A-2, i “ 7 | a3 and And. | | : "| I would like to draw your attention to Stack. A-3, | ae \ = | Ms ; Goodpasture. Page 3? | 5 20 | Mr.. Goldsmith,. Stack A-3, one of the stacks contained ; | ee pe Stack Ay | a | : a0 yxy Ms... Goodpasture. What. page? — i . “3 Mrz Goldsmith, It is a separate sub=stack within the ! @ a overall Stack A.,. . 23 Has: your attention now been drawn to Stack A-3? » | ALOERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, ING. HW 50955 Docld:32963434 Page 30
HW 50955 202% (202) S5H-2945 THUGTON, BSC, VARL REPGRTERS BUTED LUG, aU, ‘5 JOH PTE STREET, at, ts “Ey Docld: Be L=30 L Ms. Goodpasture, Yes, 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Can-you identify the. document that 1 | appears on. stack A-3? | 7 | Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. - | | s | “Mr.cGéldsmith, What is.that document? | Ms. Goodpasture. This is a memorandum, a rough draft, a { i) chat I wrote from memory when I came to Washington a year ago 2 to be used as background material to try to get together the 3 ! information about what was the situation in Mexico at the | ic : time of Oswald's. visit and the assassination and to name. i | people whe were there that we could talk to and locate their | 12 records and get as complete ‘a report as we could on what. | 13 A happened there. | i oe Mr. Goldsmith, Of all the available personnel from | i . . i 1s : Mexico City, why were you specifically asked to prepare this | ts | memorandum? | | 7 Ms, Goodpasture.: I dosnot think anybody else was will- 8 ing to do tt. | | ! is Mr. Goldsmith. Is it possible that. you were asked to | 20 | prepare-.this memorandum because you had more information - | 7 | concerning this issue? | ey Ms. Goodpasture. No,. I. was asked to do it because the. 7 | man. who was. reviewing it had neyer been at the Mexico station | | and it is just as though. he was asked to write a report. on this * committee; that hé wanted someone that had Been in Mexico,. ALEERSON SEPORTING COMPANY, INC. 32263434 Page 31
1-31 1 } 1 : —— _Mr. Goldsmith. Before we proceed, I would like: to ask 2} you, Miss Goodpasture, to wait until I have ‘finished asking | 3 my question, and although you may have answered the question | de in | | | I was asking, I would like to ask it again. | 2 Why were you specifically chosen to prepare this ~ | i : . og : memorandum? ce 7 | Ms. Goodpasture. I do not know. x 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Was anybody else from the Mexico City ~ la $ station who served with you in 1963 asked to prepare similar | i : = i9 | memoranda? | € i | = MszsGoodpasture, was told that all of the people who | $ 12 | were there at the time would be interviewed and would be io = 13 , asked to do the same thing that I was.asked to do. = | t || Mr. Goldsmith. To your knowledge, did they? = 43 | Ms. Goodpasture; I do not know. I did not see any of = 14 | the results, but that does not mean that they did not. “IT | Mr. Goldsmith. Are you familiar with the CIA's Inspec~ | + 13 | tor General Report of 1977? ; = IF | Ms. Goodpasture. The CIA what? - ! : : = 26 Mr. Goldsmith. Inspector General's Report of 1977? eee TF ! Among other things, it dealt: with. the question of the surveil- “> aa: . : : : . . eB awd <s lance operation of Cuban and Soviet Embassies in Mexico City | 25 , in 1963, . @ 34 Ms. Goodpasture, I am sorry. I am going to have to ~ ask. you to repeat that because there is a word in there at the: ALDERSON ZEPORTING COMPANY, INC.
HW 50955 2002% (202) S54-23945 Hc. CASTELIICTON , REPORTERS BUT EDTES , i. 8. fe cod rng = no = ce Long cael Bocld: to 6 tan 32263454 Page 33 1-32 beginning I am not sure I understood. “Did you say secretarial 1): board? Mr, Goldsmith. No, I did not. I will try to speak up -and.to clarify my questions for you. Why do we not defer tha until later on? I would like to address your attention to page 19 of this document... (Pause) Whatappears on page 19 of this document? What infor- mation appears on page 19 of this document? Ms. Goodpasture. there is a list of ‘names .and dates. ‘Mr. Goldsmith. What are the names and dates related “to? Ms. Goodpasture., There were related to people who were, or whovI- thought, could have been in Mexico. at that time; but this document was never checked. I did this, I tried to do this. from memory and it was to be checked from the personnel records for accuracy as well as the other memorandum that you have. ‘What we have here is my rough draft -and there may be gome names of people who were not there, Mr, Goldsmith. I understand we are only going to focus this time on a few of the names, Drawing your attention to the middle of the page where it says “unilateral photo,Soviets," do you see that? ALITERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. t: i i ! ' | i if i ' ; i i
HW 50955 1 | MS. Goodpasture, Yes, Mr. Goldsmith. Is your name mentioned under that) category? Ms. Goodpasture. My name was. there in the initial | | Z | status, — : s | Mr. Goldsmith. I think the question calls for a yes or g 7 [one answer, Was your name ~- S 3 | Ms. Goodpasture, Yes, . = . 5 | - Mr. Goldsmith. This was in a report that you prepared, | : to | is that correct? 5 : 7 Ms. Goddpasture..-That.isright. Es at Mr. Goldsmith. It says Goodpasture, alternate co in E . — . 2 12 | internal routing: What does that mean? = it : i Mr. Goodpasture, That means that during the time that = Is | Harry Mahoney was there, when the base was first set up, I z 1g ' was his alternate case officer and I did the internal routing ~ j . 3 7 | for the Soviet photographs. My tenure lasted much longer. Tf : a kept an interest in the Soviets -- I mean. in the plintographs. z 19 | When the other peophe were away on holidays I could meet with M < 20 | their contact and pick up the photographs and route them. mee | ‘Sometime in 1964, I had nothing more to do with photo- awd 22 i graphs. 2 | Mr, Goldsmith, Mr, Mahoney left in April, 1959, is 2 | that correct? 25 Ms. Goodpasture, Pardon me? ALM SERSOM RESORTING COMPANY, IN. Docld: 32263434 Page 34
1=34 - Mr. Goldsmith. Is it true that when Thomas Keehan & | | ; 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Mahoney left, according to this, ® 2 | roughly in April, 1959. | | i | Ms. Goodpasture. That is approximate, I am not sure 2 * : of the date. S- | Mr, Goldsmith. Understood. 2 “| However, you continued working in this particular = S | capacity through 1964. Is that correct? : 7 Ms, Goodpasture, Only when the other people were away, | : ; | met someone outside. That was the function of the alternate’ z 10 co. | | E MW Mr. Goldsmith, What was Thomas Keehan's responsibility 7 12 in regards to this project? | © z 3 Ms. Goodpasture. He was a case officer, . | = ¢ Mr, Goldsmith. According to. page 19, he served in that | : | capacity from June '63 until October '64, is that correct? | a i - “| - Ms. Goodpasture. I think so. | : "| ‘Mr, Goldsmith. When you say case officer, you mean | a fesse officer with regard to the Soviet Embassy photosurveil- = * | vance coverage? . > | a | c- : ; a Ms. Goodpasture,. Yes, | ase fs AS wy $3 | xeceived the materials from the photosurveillance operation 231 | | he would turn them over, either to you or to Herbert Minell? “> : Ms. Goodpasture.. He sometimes brought the photographs ,in to me and I gave them to Herb Minell. On other occasions, i ’ j 1 i t | { ' i } . ‘ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DocId: 32263434 Page 35
~e Hi t i | 2 | od i ! 2 | ' i i aot nae 2 2! = go “a ~ 1 ~ i ve) 2 4 wi 8 i _ i ~ - it = ~ 7 ~~ = t ~ Rt a oa i c i ~ 3 ' . ao tS 73 : t ~ * * i a : = | Soe be H = : > u ” 12? ‘ au om : 2 i — a 4 a bj _ i eS | Oo = Fe & ~ | i. “ 17 3 i = al = | wn | = 13 = t# ; i cond c . \ 8 29 | \ a A BS | wy) 34 | yA if 22 il i 24 | ef 25 4 4 if ay 4 i i W HW 450955 Bocld:32963434 Page 36  yegult of the project, was. not his responsibility. That was 1-35 he would give it to Herb Minnel directly. | Mr. Goldsmith. Is it true that Keehan's responsibility | in this area was simply to do the leg work on the project, that he himself was not really in. charge of the project? Ms . Goodpasture, Nl, he managed the projects also. He) had complete supervision of the projects, as well as. the leg- | work, | . | | _. The production, the material that was produced as a Mr. Minnel's. Mr, Goldsmith, .Who was involved in setting the require- ments. on policies with regard to the running of the project? Ms, Goodpasture, Tom Keehan, Mr. Goldsmith. Are you certain that the person respon~ sible for that was not yourself? . | Ms. Geodpasture, Pardon me? | Mr. Goldsmith, Are you certan that you were not responsible for-setting those requirements and policies? -Ms, Goodpasture, Are you referring to asking people to asking for coverage over a specific investigation? Mr. Goldsmith. My question is. directed towards whether. you. were involved in a supervisory capacity with setting the requirements: and policies as to how the photosurveillance operation would Be run. Ms. Goodpasture. I talked to him about it, but this
1-36 =, was his sole responsibility at the. time, He was the case | © 4 officer for the: project. . . , Mr. Goldsmith. Is it true that, because of the sensi- a (> 4 1 tivity of the photosurveillance operation-at the Soviet 2 os | Embassy that Winn Scott felt that you were the person who | 3 4 |. should run this operation? ' 7 g ‘7 Ms, Goodpasture, I do not think I heard that statement | Nowe 4 & 3 before. He did not want too many people involved in it | ; 9 ‘because of the sensitivity and he asked me.to review the photo- : “19 | _graphs to. make sure that the outside. people did not become. | | S ; Ei 1 | sloppy in the photographic work. | = i x 13  Mre. Goldsmith. : Nevertheless, did Winn ‘Scott place you | se = 1 in a supervisory capacity with regard to this project? | : TY Ms. Goodpasture., No. I never saw anything in writing ! = 1s that referred to me as supervising the activities of that | : 16 project. : ~ i _ “ 7 Mr. Goldsmith. If not in writing,nevertheless, informally : 18 | did Winn Scott designate you as the person who would be super- = 15 | -yising that project? : | é 20 | Ms «. Goodpasture, | He may have said informally, I. want | 4 you to. make sure that those operations are run properly, or | SB fal 34 something like that, but I do not think he did. I do not 23 recall him doing that. | & 24 Mr. Goldsmith. Is it true that Mr. Keehan was. ‘the most junior officer in the station in 1963? I q i Hl ; i Ht a y 4 mesa ac mm tens . , ALCERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 37
7NO24 (202) S5u-294N5 pec, WASHTHOTON , REPORTERS BUTLDING , Si tt. de : ans ho 4a se) Ms. Goodpasture. That he was what? | Mr Goldsmith, The most junior officer, He had. less seniority than anybody else in 1963, Ms . Goodpasture . “Agewise, he probably was, Mr, Goldsmith, Is it also true that the Soviet opera- tion, in terms of surveillance of the Soviet Embassy, was an - extremely sensitive operation? | Ms. Goodpasture, It was not any more sensitive than the ather operations which Mr, Keehan was handling,. In fact, ‘Mr, Keehan was probably the person most trusted by Winn Scott. Mr. Goldsmith, I do not believe that the answer is responsive ‘to my question, though,. Is, it true that the Soviet Embassy surveillance opera~ tien was-ane of the most sensitive operations that was in effect. in Mexico City in 1963? Ms, Goodpasture, . I. doubt ity | Mx Goldsmith, Would you characterize that operation as. extremely sensitive? | | Ms. Goodpasture. Pardon me? Mr. Goldsmith. Would you characterize that surveil- lance operation as extremely sensitive? Ms. Goodpasture, ‘It was -- I would characterize it as sensitive to the extent that the Chief of Station did not want the photographs disseminated and the sour€e identified, for |
| | that reason.it was considered sensitive, But every project | | { i that we had was also considered sensitive that involved a source who would be in jeopardy if they were identified. if io a Mr. Goldsmith, If Mr. Keehan were to say that his | 5 7 responsibility with regard to that project was simply to do | 5 7 the legwork on it and not to act in a supervisory capacity, E ‘ would he be telling us the truth?. = 7 Ms. Goodpasture. When he first came there -- ~ J | Mr. Goldsmith. I believe that. calls for a yes or no | : Hi . : 0 | answer, | 2 Hl Ms. Goodpasture., I am trying to figure out. why someone | = i would make a statement of that type.:. He felt, I am sure, as | > = 13 a young officer that he was only doing the legwork, but so = Hi . , : | = ta was I. Because the person who made the decisions was the | 6: i _ : 1s Chief of Station and his deputy, and they had the remainder | : 14 of the people in the station do the legwork, the running | 4 7 around, meeting the agents, but when it came to make decisions : 13 they made the big decisions, but I did not make any decisions | : a over Tom Keehan's work, if that is what you are getting at. S 20 | Mr. Goldsmith. With regards to this particular surveil- | = 2} lance operation, did you make the decisions on it, or did Keehan. make the decisions on it? Ms. Goodpasture, He made the decisions on it. As far a 24 1 as management of the project was concerned -~. Mr. Goldsmith, Miss Goodpasture, what was the procedure ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 509455 Docld: 32263434 Page 39
| i . ' | for getting the photographic. film from the photography | a 2 | surveillance site to the station? | a Ms. Goodpasture. “It was picked up at intervals by | © ° meetings with the person outside. | z 3 Mr, Goldsmith, How long did it take? 3 | Ms . Goodpasture. There, again, my memory is faulty. ~ | : S 7 | I think that it was picked up once or twice or. three times a S ‘ | week. oe a Mr, Goldsmith, What was done with it once it was. picked E ‘| | Ms, Goodpasture, Pardon me? | , 2 . . Mr, Goldsmith, What was done with it once it was picked i> A 3 up? What was done with the photographic tape once it. was. | | = ¢ Picked up? | | z 1S Ms. Goodpasture . What happened to it once it was picked! na | Mr, Goldsmith. Right. | z . Ms, Goodpasture. “It. was Brought ‘into the station. and ! E |? | distributed to the people who took action on that product, | 5 2 Mr, Goldsmith, Before it was distributed to the people ! KS | in the station, was. it. developed? _ | : “ an “ Ms y Goodpasture, Yes, it was developed, oo i Mr. Goldsmith. It would he picked up, vou think, nd me approximately three times a week, It would be. taken somewhere ho aa for processing and development and they would take it to the im) a ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, ING. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 40
oo, two or three days, so that the last day's: coverage on the i } | | | station and distribute it. Is that correct? | | 2 | Ms. Goodpasture, Right. . 3 | Mr, Goldsmith. How long did this overall. process take? | © on Ms, Goodpasture, My guess would be about a week from . 5 ii the time that thé film was exposed, but some of the film ! i , . . i 2 7 might. only be two days old or three days old, L a I | oo | g "| In the roll of film, it would:cover a period of one, : 3 film would be more recent than the first part.of the filn. | | | | = = 10 “Mr, Goldsmith, Would you give the panel your evaluation a4) | Of the efficiency of the photosurveillance operation? © 3 . . mo . = 22 Ms, Goodpasture, Well, I think that it generally was | i i ¢ : i . very good as. far as the coverage was concerned. _If we asked e = 14 | them to get a photograph. of the events that occurred between | : Is | 9:00 and 10:00 on such and such a date, they usually produced | ; is the photographs for that period, | : 4 7 Mr. Goldsmith. What i£ they were not specifically asked z iB to focus on a pérson,. asa matter of routine? How thorough 0 | . : | E 19 was. the coverage? ! S 20 Ms. Goodpasture. They: covered the categories that we / : ae asked them for on a routine basis, which was to identify any : o> pee a5 people who appeared to be non-Latin and any Soviets, | 73 Mr. Goldsmith, I understand that-was the purpose. cs “8 Given. that. purpose , how thorough.was the coverage? ~ 25 Ms. Goodpasture. ‘I think it was. adcurate;. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 41
1-41 | Mr, Goldsmith, Was Winn Scott satisfied with the > | | 7 performance of the photo operation at the Soviet Embassy? | Ms. Goodpasture. To the Best of my knowledge he was. @ 4 Mr. Goldsmith; I would now like you to refer to page = ‘| 20 of the document that you have before you in Stack A-3. | 3. ; | Seven lines. from the bottom in the:middbe of the page, it says g ae "However." . | : : Ms. Goodpasture, Wait a minute. ; | _. (Pause): | ; ote | Mx, Goldsmith, Seven lines from the bottom, starting _ : 1 with the word "However," T would like for you to read that, | E aa Ms, Goodpasture, The Last. : : . a @ ar Mx. Goldsmith, "However, hére again, there was," That | Z | is. what I am referring to.. Just read that section please. : 3! (Pause). : : is Is the information contained in that section starting | . 7 | nAER MHowever until the end of that page, accurate? | : 13 Ms. Goodpasture, To the best of ny knowledge it is, i = | | But I am not so sure whether or nat. the cameras. used a é a separate roll of film for each day after the assassination or | a 2) |Before, I think it was after the assassination, That part | Dal 2 |, Fight here is not clear. 4 | The. reason I say it was after that period, hecause if e @ y 24 jYou will look at the log of the film that occurred in October ho cary jyou will notesmoze than one day on tHatroll of film. u ij u Hh t i ' ALOERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32963434 Page 42
| 1-42 | 1 Mr. Goldsmith. After the photos were taken, to the | © 2 : station, were they reviewed? Were the photographs reviewed? | 3 Ms. Goodpasture. After they came into the station? sie , | Mx. Goldsmith. Yes. | ! 5 ; . Ms. Coodpasture. Yes. | 2 6 | ) Mr. Goldsmith. Who reviewed then? 7 Ms » Goodpasture, I glanced at them and then I gaye then = 3 to Herb. Minell and he studied them, and if. I was looking for | ¢ 5 something at the request of Mr. Scott, if he came down and [og j : . . i Z 10 asked me to go over the photographs for such. and such a ! = a i period, then I studied them more carefully. | = 12 | Mr, Goldsmith. Did you review, did you give all of | “ i : © z 13 | the photographs. from the photosurveillance operation. of the | i i Soviet Embassy to Mr. Minell? _ | | | 13 Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. I routed them and then they : = Ns went to the file where they were kept ; but he had access to - : 2 8 | Mr. Goldsmith. If Mr. ‘Minell were to have said that : a i. . = 9 | he xeceived only those particular photographs from the Embassy 5 20 | operation that you regarded to be of significance, would he | . aoe be telling us: the truth? | | | , e pee 2 7 Ms, Goodpasture, I think he would, I think he is | ° referring -- the photographs came in and there was. a. contact : > * | print on one sheet of paper, also, of those photographs, of : 2 those cases; where we asked them to look for people who had a : ALDSERSON REPORTING COMEFANY, INC. | HWY 350955 DBocld:322763434 Page 43
E243 . | | car license plate or fnew. Soviets wha had not been there | G 2 | before or people. whic were.“not Latins.’ | 3 | They gave us a 3 x 5 photograph with them in addition td ip > the sheet, and those 3 x 5 photographs were always: given to | Z § | Mr. Minell toa use or to identify the new Soviets or to start | i ; . | 2 ) | files to try toa identify the others. But that was separate | : ? | from thé file copy, so that may have been what he was” S 3 referring to. | : 3 | Mr. Goldsmith, He was given photographs of. significance. 2 10 Was he also given all of the photographs of the Embassy? : : i Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, He was. shown all of the photo- i * 2 i: graphs. that came. , He retained , for his use, the 3.x 5 photo- | > : 2 “graphs, But all.the photographs. were ‘routed to him, | = id | Mr. Goldsmith,’ At thi's time, Mr. Chairman, I would | : 13 | like to break. for any questions that. the Committee might have. = 13 | Mr, Preyer, I believe we would prefer to complete | : 4 iF the testimony Hiefore asking questions. | o i E 8 | , Mr. Goldsmith. I would like to turn now to the photo- | = i. graphic surveillance operation of the Cuban Embassy and | 5 20 | consulate. | KS u | What responsibilities, if any, did you have with regard : & YAR | to that particular operation? _ | "3 ! | Ms. Goodpasture, At the time, in 1963, none, | 2 | - Mr, Goldsmith. “When did you Rave responsibilities with 4 ; 3 regard to that ‘aperation? . | | ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. | HY 50955 DBocld:322763434 Page 44
1-44 | Ms. Goodpasture, When they were first working on the | 2 | Cuban Embassy, they asked me if I would help them with the | | photographs. I do not remember the exact time now. | ag 7 Mr. Goldsmith. How many cameras were in.operation | a i = | surveilling the Cuban Embassy and consulate? ; i 7 3 ‘| Ms. Goodpasture. I do not know. I am not sure. If = 7 | tried to speculate on. that, but I am just not sure. | 5 | MY. Goldsmith, 1 you had to estimate, what answer | an would you. give? a | | = ae Ms. Goodpasture,. I thought. that there were two, but : "4 I did not know if they were at the consulate entrance.or the | : | gain gate. . 7 | Oo : 3 Mx, Goldsmith, In September and October, 1963, at what. | = 4 times were the Cuban Embassy and consulate under photo-sur- | : 1 veillance? | . : 's | Ms, Goodpasture., What is that? | Mr, Goldsmith, In September and October of 1963, at on : | what times was the Cuban Embassy and consulate under photo- : : ‘9 surveillance? ! ° 0 Ms: Goodpasture. I do not. know. I think the cameras | a were malfunctioning during thatperiod, but I am not sure - : ©e oN | right. now the exact dates, Kut it should be in the record. | oo an Mr.. Goldsmith. As a matter of routine, during that ! @ * period, what times would theré Have been coverage? * “Ms. Goodpasture , “My guess would be that it would be the
1-45 same as the Soviets when the offices were opened, but it - | ' would be up to their case officer as to wRat times he ordered | 7 them to work, and thé case officer, at that time, was Bob ; Shaw. 5 ae Mr, Goldsmith, In the case of the Cuban Embassy and a 3 | consulate, what was the procedure for getting the photographic E | film from the surveillance site ta the station? _ : a Ms.. Goodpasture. ‘Tt think that it was similar to that : 7 used for. the Soviets, but I did not know the people who brought , z 2 | it in, I did not Bring it in. — oe | = HW Mr, Goldsmith, By whom were the photographs reviewed? = 12 Ms. Goodpasture,. I think. Bob Shaw, | ae : 13 | Mr. Goldsmith. Did you review. any: of those photographs? : | Ms Goodpasture, ‘Not unless they brought one to me to | Z 3 just look at it and compare with somebody who may. have gone | : iS] to the Soviet’ Embassy, which was the case of this controversial 4 7 | photograph. that we have. | Z 8 | Mr. Goldsmith. Were you acting in an informal super- | a = '" | visory capacity with regard to the surveillance operation? | 5 = Ms. Goldsmith, Mr. Shaw was in charge of thi'soperation? a Ms, Goodpasture, “Tt think. Bob Shaw was in charge of that. operation, & Mr, Goldsmith, How many years had Mr. Shaw been down at 1 i ‘ i ‘ i t ; i } ! nO a Bes 12 | | 23 | | | | ithe Mexico City station? | Ww aa Ms, Goodpasture,. ‘T am not sure, It.should be available | i : 4 HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 46 ION REZORTING COMPANY, INC.
1-46 . from headquarters, %63 to *65, I think, It is on page 18. l | | | @ : | Mr. Goldsmith. Now here-- according to | . ; page 18 of this document, Mr . shaw was. Chief of Cuhan e ° operations. | | : | ' Ms. Goodpasture. “I think Dave Phillips, I believe. ° | ; Mr. Goldsmith. You say that: Mr. Phillips was the — I | Chief during this period, According to: your document on page ane 18, yow also indicate that Mr. Shaw was the Chief of Cuban | ‘ ’ | Operations. ~ t | ~ | 3 ‘9 | Ms. Goodpasture, Because Mr. Phillips came down there, | = " Dave. Phillips was the covert action officer and then he was ., 2 | placediin. charge of Cuban operations, but Bob, Shaw had | . © : 3 actually been there before, handling the Cuban operations, | : 6 and the other menorandum that you referrdd to was written when g » I was. trying -= and.I said it had several errors. in it, | : ‘8 but I remember that Bob. Shaw was. there working on Cuban. | : " | target . ‘I: did not. Know on what date when I wrote this when. ! z 8 | Dave Phillips was named as, Chief ’ | 2) Mr, Goldsmith, When. Phillips came down, did he replace 5 2 | Bob. Shaw: as: Chief of Cuban Operations? © | aan Ms. Goodpasture, No , he was there Before in another | o eNO | capacity, then he was named to replace him. | ° Mr. Goldsmith. Turning to page ‘1a, according to page : © ; “ 19, under the section. "Unilateral. Photo ,Cubans;," it says: that : _ during this period, Robert Zambernardi was in. charge of the | HW 450955 DocId: 32263434 Page 47
; | OO —_ 1-47 |. { unilateral photo operations. | Gc | * ) Ms. Goodpasture, These were two photographers, but 3 they were not case officers. They processed the film, | a F Mr. Goldsmith. I see, . a = § MS. @odpasture. They had na operational responsibility : 4 Mr. Goldsmith. Are you able to evaluate. the efficiency | g s of the Cuban photogurveillance operatidn? . | z 3 | Ms. Goodpasture. My guess would be that it was just as | = ie a | , 5 ! efficient when it was operating as the Soviet one. . 19 : Mr. Goldsmith, With ‘regard to both the photos that were : 1 obtained from the Cuban and the Soviet Embassy and consulates, E 12 -what happened to them after they were taken Back to the | & : 3 station and reyiewed? Were they stored? | | : ta Ms. Goodpasture, They were stored in the main file, | | : 1g chronolegical files. : ig Mr. Goldsmith . During the period when Mr. Scott was | r iT | there , were any of these photographs. disposed of? | 2 is Ms. Goodpasture,. Yes, Some of the earlier photographs;,| z 13 | before we began to set up formal files in the late 1950's were, = 20 2 not used, | | | | | a 7! | 7 During the period that we are talking about to the best : i s SY 3 3 | of my knowledge, in 1963, I do nat believe any of the photo- ab A j i { t i | . - : 27 | graphs were destroyed as long as Mr. Scott was there, if 24 | Mr, Goldsmith. How long were these photographs retained? 23) Ms... Goodpasture, As far as I know, they were still there) it d | i uf uv Hi oy HW 30355 Docld: 32263434 Page 46 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Po.
; 1-48 , | when T left in 1968. | Mr. Goldsmith, Are they there now, to your. knowledge? | Ms. Goodpasture. Not all the photographs, A year ago i) be I could not locate all of them. ~ Mx, Goldsmith. For purposes of clarification, we are dan now: talking specifically about photographs taken in September | i} i. i | : oy and October of 1963, Now, you just said that, a year ago, | z ; you could not locate them, Did you go to Mexico City to : ; a | attempt to locate them? | | < “a Ms. Goodpasture. No, ! = : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Where did you go to to attempt to locate : ' the photographs? | @ 2 13 | Ms. Goodpasture, I was here ‘in Washington and I looked : E ta | through the files, But we did send a cable to Mexico City. , : Gl In fact, we sent two. cables to them trying to locate the i : | Photographs, . | = a Mr, Goldsmith, What was. the response? : a 2 Ms, Goodpasture. They could not locate one page of the ! : 1s | photographs. | | : =| “Mr, Goldsmith, I do not. understand the answer, They : ; +) | Were unable to docate one page? | S27 32 | Ms. Goodpasture, One page. One page of photographs 7 ya } | e 33 they could not locate. : se Mr. Goldsmith. Does that mean that all of the other ad 25 photographs they were able ‘to locate? : HW 450955 4 ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. DoclTd:32263434 Page 49
1-49 Ms. Goodpasture. Does that mean what?. All of the na other photographs? Yes, We located all of the other files except. for one, | i | | | oo -: | Mr, Goldsmith. Do you remember what time period the | ia page of photographs that you cotidid not locate referred to? Ms ,. Goodpasture, Right offhand I do not remember, but - I wrote a memorandum for it, which should be in this group of | 'materfals, a cover letter a year ago. 20024 (2027) 45"-2345 ~4 contain one or more contact prints: on it, © Ms, Goodpasture, It would contain contact prints from 3 soF | Mr. Goldsmith, Specifically with regard to the photo- | : ia | graphs that were taken in September and October, 1963, did | : nl the information that you obtained from the Mexico City station : 2 last. year indicate that all But one page of chose photographs: a : 4g | had been recovered*and were available? ; | z re | Ms, Goodpasture. Yes, to the best of my knowledge, | : 1s | Mr. Goldsmith. When you say "a page af photographs," : z 1s what are you referring to? | 4 17 | Ms‘. Goodpasture, In a file which. you showed me you | : 8 | ave a copy, it ts a contact print of 35.mm.. film on one . | : : 1¢ : page, | < =| Mr, Goldsmith. I think. I know what you are referring | ee) pe! 22 j Ms, Goodpasture, Right. | 3 | Mx. Goldsmith. By "a page," you mean a page that would | ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 450955 Docld: 32263434 Page 450
1-50 Hi 7 one roll of 352mm, film. The film we had, but it was that = 2 contact print that. was in the original files that we could. i 2 | not locate. | © : | | Mr. Goldsmith, You still had the film? : | Ms. Goodpasture. The negatives were avaihable. | a ‘| Mr. Goldsmith. In that case, what is available from = oa the Mexico City station are all of the photographs, all of | S | the photographic negatives or contact prints from the pictures : | that were taken at the Soviet and Cuban Embassies and consul- | aa ates in Septenber and Octcber in 1963, is that correct? = il £ no “Ms. Goodpasture. That. is right. g | Mr. Goldsmith.’ Were these materials sent to head= | @ : 13 quarters last year? | : | | “Ms. Goodpasture. No, L do not think the material we : | could not. locate was ever sent to headquarters. r think it ! = iH . = is was destroyed in the field. 4 ry But. the other film, all of the negatives. concerned in | : 18 | this photograph. had been sent to headquarters before I began : = 19 | to look. for it last year. | | $ 20 | It came up in about 1968 or 169 when certain files : eae a were ‘sent to. héadquarters, ! @ pe as ; Mr. Goldsmith. For purposessof clarification, is it 23) : true that,available at headquarters or the Mexico. City station! are either the contact prints or the. negatives of all of the | pictures that were taken at. tHe Cuban and Soviet Embassy and ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 322963434 Page 51
consulate? _ no a : | Ms, Goodpasture, Yes. | de to these materials are the photoproduction lines. that are [ i : tas 3 Mr, Goldsmith, Is it also true that available in regard | maintained? — t Ms, Goodpasture, With the one exception that I T = a mentioned, the otHers are all available, s a Mr, Goldsmith. Are you saying that there was. not a : "| petcion oy eh spc to the contact prints? _ | z io | Ms . Goodpasture. : Right. : 7 Mr, Goldsmith, - The others were all available from the | 3 12 | Cuban and Soviet Embassy and consulates, is that. right? | | o> : 13 Ms; Goodpasture. Correct. | 3 lo Mr.. Goldsmith, I would like now to turn to the area of | i i ~ = is | the electronic surveillance. operation of the Cuban and | Z 13 | Soviet Embassies. and consulates. | = i ‘ aan | How many wiretap operations were in effect with respect : 3 | to these embassies. and consulates in September and October of | : 19 1963? | 5 20 Ms, Goodpasture, “De you mean how many lines were | seem" | covered, oF how many projects did we have? When you say | : fal 2 operations, you are referring to unilateral, not a lateral? ‘ ‘ | Mr .Goldsmith, Let's. first talk about the projects. How! ells 7" y Many projects were there? — , | Mss Goodpasture, ‘We had one that we ran. independently | u u EEZPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 450955 Docld: 32263434 Page 452
and one that was a liaison project.. _s wd | Mr. Goldsmith, The one that was run. independently was a referred to as the unilateral project? i. + | Ms . Goodp asture,. Right . | ; - Mr. Goldsmith. With regard to the one that was run | "3 3 | “inddpendently, how many taps did you have in operation | & 7) with regard to phones at the Soviet Embassy and consulate? 8) Ms, Goodpasture, On the unilateral one? | sy Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. n.c, Qa Ms, Goodpasture. I would have to guess: without checking | | | z Mr. Goldsmith, I am just asking for an estimate, ay, } ’ Ms. Goodpasture, I. think -- I do not think that there 1963, I think all of that was on the liaison, On the Cubans, REPORTERS RU PLDT i ‘ | ° . t ‘“ | was any: coverage of the Soviets: on the unilateral in September 1 t ! ' t i i \ } I think there were one or two lines, Mr, Galdsmith,. Did you follow whose phones? | | : im | Mr, Goldsmith. For purposes of clarification, again | : ° : we are. now talking about the period September-October, 1963, : z 5 | rurning to the liaison project, how many taps were in. effect | = 20 | at. the Soviet Embassy? | uf Ms, Goodpasture, ‘I believe there were five. : 7 Ms Goodpasture. “Do I recall o : ae * | Mr, Goldsmith, On whose phones, | ~ ! , Ms, Goodpasture. ‘Phones? ~ | ALD ERSON REPORTING COMPANY. ING. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 533
1-53 | . : a Mr. Goldsmith. “Which phones were selected for wire~ | < 2 tapping purposes? | ; | Ms . Goodpasture. There was the Chancellory phone, the | Se | ap . > | Cultural Office. I would have to check the transcripts to be | 5 ; ! sure . | a 2 6 Ghe military office was also covered. | a . & 7 | Mr. Goldsmith. By whom was the liaison project - 5 4 coordinated? — | | S 7 | I will try to speak up and speak. more clearly... In any z 10 | event ;: before T..get to the question that. I just asked you, 7 : " how many phones were’ tapped atthe Cuban Embassy and consulate? ane ! -".° Ms,. Goodpasture. “The Cuban Embassy, four ‘or five . | © 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall which phones? To the. best! fa of your memory, which. ‘phones were taped in the Cuban -~ . Ms. Goodpasture. Four or five. REPORTERS BULLDOG, ~ | Mr. Goldsmith. . Do you recall which ones? | | ° "7 ! Ms. Goodpasture,. “Which ones? Not by meniory;: but I 2 a | listed them all a year ago when I reviewed the transcripts, | BN So. there is a list of all the films that were covered at that | a 28 time in. the. records, | | Se Mr. Goldsmith, Did the Mexicans have any unilateral : @ PR i \ coverage with regard to the Soviet and Cuban embassies? “ Ms. Goodpasture . ‘The project was joint. They had the & “ same coverage that we Had, : ~ Mr, Goldsmith, To your knowledge, is it possible that | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DBocld: 32263434 Page 54
1-54 7 they, themselves, had a unilateral project? It is possible, | i | nue ae they had. coverage -~ which I am sure they probably did pba bs they shared with us the coverage from the joint project. dee Mr. Goldsmith. What were your responsibilities with | regard to the wiretapping operations? | i - - 7 | Ms. Goodpasture, . Legwork and maangement.. | | . oO 29024 (202) S$54-2945 dl Mx, Goldsmith. By. management, what do you mean? MO A.c, Ms ,. Goodpasture. I. recorded all thé correspondence, | : = 19 | getting the.money, paying the people who did the work, making | = 4 | gure that the machinery was functioning, picking up all of S| | the transcripts. and supervising most ofikhe people involved with it, except for the Mexicans, © in Mr. Goldsmith, In addition to electronic surveillance 1s ofaaxwiretapping nature, were there any "bugs" planted in the REPORTERS SULLDING, Cuban or Soviet Embassy and consulate? | Ss. firsthand knowledge of them, I think that the best person | \ | | oO, Lo . 7 i Ms, Goodpasture, I think there were, but I do not: have | to give you the Best information on that would be the Cuban 300 7TH STREET, “0 _ case officers, We never put anything in the Soviet Embassy. a Mr. Goldsmith. “rt you did, would there have been a | © pe? a transcript ‘made of the conversations that were overheard? am Ms. Goodpasture. vesi . | | @ a . 7 Mrs Goldsmiths “Would those transcripts: still be on | nm han record at the agency today?. — ae | ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC.
a 1 Ms. Goodpasture. They should he, | e 2 Mr. Goldsmith, You indicated earlier, I believe, that . 2 there was a list available of the Cuban phones that were ap 4 | covered by the electronic surveillance ‘operation, is that | zs correct? ~ 4 : 6 | Ms . Goodpasture. _ That there was --_ | S 7 Mr. Goldsmith. You indicated earlier that you either | S 3 saw Or. prepared a list of the phones. that-were covered by: the : 9 | surveillance project at the Cuban. Embassy and consulate? | c. i ; : z ie | Ms : Goodpasture : Yes ; | 7 Mr. Goldsmith, Do you know where that list is today? | 3 12 | Ms: ~ Goodpasture,. rt should be in your records . | oy : z | ‘Mr. Goldsmith, Why do you say it should be? | z id Ms. Goodpasture. I was told that you had a copy of . | 13 all the transcripts and, with those transcripts, there was a | 13 list of the lines that were covered, both Cuban and Soviet. | “ 7 Mr. Goldsmith. In addition to the electronic surveil~ | | : 8 lance. both of a wiretap and of ‘a bugging. nature, did. the . = 1g | Mexico city station have any penetration agents at the Cuban | SS 3 Ms. Goodpasture; I am not sure about the Cuban Embassy. lh fal 0 “Mr,Goldsmith. Did the Mexico City station have. ‘any 73 penetration agents at the Soviet Embassy and consulate? | a 26 Ms. Goodpasture. ‘Noy | . a3 Mr. Goldsmith. ; Are you certain about that answer? : ‘ A i! pam ca ate id mR ee “ t AL CERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
- 1-56 Ms. Goodpasture, Pardon me? — Mr, Goldsmith, Are you certain that there were no res) CIA penetration. agents? © Ms. Goodpasture. To the Best ofumy knowledge, there dan SS : were none at the Soviet Embassy, “If there were , I did not ; 6 | know about then, & 7 | Mr. Goldsmith. “Your answer is the same for the Cuban een Ms, Goodpasture. The Cuban Embassy, I-do not know, z 9 because the Cuban Embassy. had locals: employed and there were = . assets. in touch with some of those, locals. by the case : “ officer for tHe Cuban operations who would he the only person ad . : ° who would. know about that. “it is not in the records, - el ‘Mr, Goldsmith, Fine. : Is - Turning to. the scope of coverage , at what times were : Is these ‘lines: under electronic surveillance ° _ | Ms. Goddpasture. T think that the equipment was z 6 | activated when a telephone conversation took placelon the - ; liaison. lines’, _ | Mr, Goldsmith, It would be automatically activated? aon eae | Ms. Goodpasture, Yes, @ —— i Mr, Goldsmith, Therefore it would not. be limited just | : | | to working hours? Ws Lwry { Mr, Goldsmith, You indicated earlier when you attempted) > | Ms, Geodpasture. Yes, or whenever a call occurrec, | i
4 | ; Lo 57 ; pte locate the phatograhpic materials. in Mexico City there io | was one contact page missing, is that correct? | a _. Ms, Goodpasture, There isa log missing and a. page & j of contact prints -- - a, 7 - Mr, Goldsmith, -- is missing. 2 | Do you recall what period in September, October. of - =. t '63 that page pertained to? Sp Ps = | i . (Pause) S ant ~ i Are you able to find what you are looking for? | = Ms, Goodpasture, There is.a memo which I wrote on it, | = 10) GS | You should have a copy of it, and I am not sure what date it | = 1? 5 . : : eo | -. . *% | is. I thought it was in the papers that you showed me 2 | 7 ' : ; we ! _ a . = | i yesterday. . qa ae ii . . =f Mr, Goldsmith... Let me see if I can help you. g i os . en wo | | If you turn to the materials in Stack A, I think Stack | ee betel 1 ps iS | Av2, is this what: you are referring to? . Because that is. ~ 7 | the. only other document. pertaining to this area that I showed: 7 - | you yesterday, — oo = ast Ms. Goodpasture. A~2. | od “i } Sag | Mr. Goldsmith, I am referring to Stack A-2. Is this , | a | the document that.you referred to which would:indicate which | ‘Less .. | contact page was missing? ye a3 il Ms..Goodpasture, There is another one in which. I 5, | Mentioned that the folders had Been reused, No, it is in this’ 23) one. | : : ; ALDERSIM RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Doclad: 32263434 Page 56
de bab in se OO 20024 (202) S5H-23n5 ° . a Pa 3 a . . ~- 18 Pes 3 ~ = 74 , a é = . = “ a ts = = z 4 ad = ang = is oS ae =, ; ia = “ 7 = 1g 2 is wn = 1s ~ = = 20 | 49 , eee? OSL LE oe) an Yar 2 23 24 _ aa 1-58 Mr.. Goldsmith. “please takevthé time to look through. ‘this document and see if you can find which ‘contact print . for what period is ‘miséing. Ms. Goodpasture . | Ri ght, (Pause). - Mr. Goldsmith. If you are unable. to find that at this time, perhaps we could pursue it later, It would he best. ' to continue with the inquiry... “Ms. Goodpasture. Here it is, on page 4, Mr. Goldsmith, Where specifically on page 4? Mss Goodpasture, The files contained the photographs. for the period . 2. May '67 to 30 © . of. June. '67 were in a folder that had been used, that was marked to hold files - from the period 23 ‘July '63. until. 30 November '63.. Mr. Goldsmith. Let us see if we can get this straight, Pirst of all, even though. the contact prints would not - be available, the original negatives still would be. That is correct, is it not? | Ms, Goodpasture, The log for this one base, this one photographic source, was not available, Mx, Goldsmith. “The original negatives would still. be available? | Ms, Goodpasture, The negatives are available and the original photographs are available because they were sent to Washington, “But this file was destroyed, I suppose accidentally, SOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
oy tan 2NO2% (202) 95-2945 7 3 i : i . = 4 43 7 Hi . 4 on i i = Oy S oad t es I = rr! rar be | 3 i = _ ra = 14 | x= | = i = ty Hl Lo ; x | s | = li: oS a = te: = “ 17 | - | ' ad . if: bes ta = ant on 4 = 19 | = | & ! e co * ide i} ar gay 45 ae @ « / +s i 1-59 Mr. Goldsmith... All that is missing is the log and the contact print? Ms, Goodpasture.. That is right, which would have been _in that file. ‘Mr. Goldsmith, Are you saying, then, that the log_ that was kept. of the photographs taken during this period, | the entire log,from July?23rd *63 to November 30 '63 is no. longer available? Ms, Geodpasture. Could not he locatedaa year ago. We were trying to locate it, 7 a . Mr, Goldsmith, Did this pertain to the Cuban or Soviets? | . | i | Ms. Goodpasture. Soviets.: Now, another source that made photographs at.the same | time, their logs are available for the same period. | Mx, Goldsmith. 1 am not sure I am following. What | are you getting at? : Ms. Goodpasture, ‘That there were three bases, there | | i j i H i i t were two of those bases that photographed this unidentified | Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. . j Ms, Goodpasture. Well, the logs: are not available from | ; | one of those bases but from the other, it is, that you have, Mr. Goldsmith, When we say the production logs and the contact prints for this period are missing, that refers te only one of the three photo sites that were in operation
at that time, — Ms, Goodpasture. That ts right. - | | 3 | 7 -@he third photo site never photographed that man because | he did not appear in the area.. 2 5 “Mr, Goldsmith, We do not know whether they did or did 5 5 | not, since we do not have the production log, g | Ms, Goodpasture. We ‘do not have the photographs from | 3 | that third source again, : a7 Mr. Goldsmith. Getting back to he wiretap operation » | : 10 how long did it take for the information that was. obtained by. : n | the surveillance. operation to reach you at the Mexico City: | | | 12 | station? _ a 7 Ms, Goodpasture, | I generally picked it up early in the | . oan '¢ | morning after the day on which conversation was made, — Mr. Goldsmith, What would you pick up at that time? LISS SLI Sn ty Se 1 ft ‘Ms. Goodpasture, I picked up copies of the transcripts.| o Mr, Goldsmith, So, just take one day, To have the : | tape transcribed «~~ | \ Ms, Goodpasture, In most cases. because the transcribers with the Spanish ‘texts worked at. the same place where the | ! ad - ~ oOo recording machinery was. . ih jon Tr STRERT, SS. REPORTERS BUTEBTNG, WA “eed \ Mr.. Goldsmith, When you say you picked it. up, from whom | did you pick up the transcripts? _ | 4 Ale AS n ro a Ms. Goodpasture, From an outside agent,: © Mr. Goldsmith, Let us get into this procedure in a bit ! it it i ALOERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HY 4S0954 Docld: 32263434 Page 61
i i i ! + hee within three or four days?of the time that the conversations | i i : { | 7 more detail, | | | There would Be a tape recording made, is that correct? | 4 MS «. Goodpasture, (A what? | | © 4 | Mr, Goldsmith. A tape recording of the conversation | 2 7 would be made, ts that correct? 7 : | Ms, Goodpasture, Yes. . , S | Mr. Goldsmith. How would that tape recording actually F , | get to the transcribers, or translaters? | | | * 7 Ms, Goodpasture, The transcribers, or the transcrip- | : ta — picked up, the transcribers were working at the | : "1 same place with the Spanish text. ind thé language were other | 2. a than Spanish, it would have to be taken to another location ! & g 1 | to be transcribed, The materital that.was picked up the day | E ta after the date on which it occurred was in the Spanish. | n i = \; | language, normally. | S i _ ; S 1s Mr. Goldsmith. Tf the conversation was in Russian, | : 7 | would it Be taken to Mr, Boris Tarasoff for translation? _ ‘3 | Ms Goodpasture, That ts right. — : 7 Mr, Goldsmith. Routinely, how: long did it take Mr. | : | Faroe to make the translation? | | . : n | Ms. Goodpasture. It depended on. his: Backlog, But : ® fad 22 generally it. was a delay of a day or two, . 12 | Myr... Goldsmith. In cases of Russian translations, would | i . ne | Rt Be fair te say that generally you would receive a transcript i | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32963434 Page 62
hd tb de in 20024 (202) S5"-23945 res) Plc. BULLEN TMG | WASTTNOTON, REPORTERS W. rag was STREET, -O 3nn 77 tn ha were made? — Ms\. Goodpasture, ‘Yves, Mx. Goldsmith. “Do you Know who took the tapes to Mr. Tarasoff for transcription? | Ms Goodpasture. Yes, the same man. who brought them to me, the outside ‘agent of the liaison project. ' Mr. Goldsmith. Who was that individual. Ms, Goodpasture, His name was Flick. Mr, Goldsmith. Was there anybody else hesides Mr, Flick that was responsible? Ms, Goodpasturé, ‘Herbert. MinedI, Mr. Goldsmith.’ I believe I asked you yesterday to . describe Mr.. Flick and you described him as, looking like me. Are you able to give a more definite description today of Mr, Flick? Ms, Goodpasture. ‘Well, he ‘looks :like.an All-American boy’. | Mr, Goldsmith; ‘Thank you. this Mr. Flick was approximately 5 feet six inches tall? Ms. Goodpasture. ‘He seemed taller than that to me. Mr. Goldsmith. How old wag he im 1963? _ Ms’, Goodpasture. He must have been about 45 and if I “missed it by: a. few years, he probably would not like it, | Mr. Goldsmith.’ ‘once thé transcripts were broughtito | you, would you review all of them?
a HW 50955 | ' Ms, Goodpasture:; Not always. because they were routed | 2 | to the people who took the action on them, and in the case | c of some of those transcripts, there was a stack about an | + : inch or. so. thick, and if you took the time to read. them, then. 5 | the people who had to take the action on them did not get to 2 | see them, so I. generally took them and passed them out.: g ml Mr, Goldsmith. Would you review most. of them? . | S 2 Ms. Goodpasture,. “I Had more ‘than one copy so I could | 3g | look at them, if there was something of significance, | é . ot = a | Mr. Goldsmith. Iam not. sure that I am following you. | ni As a matter of routine you would review it,*or would you : S 2 | pass it along? | ig af 7 | : 2 | Ms. Goodpasture, I would pass it along, first. I kept | : ied | one copy myself for.files. and I. had access to that copy. : Fa Mr. Goldsmith. .In the case of transcripts from the ! i 14 Soviet compound, they would go to Mr. Minell, is that correct? “ 7 . Mg’. Goodpasture, That is right, | : . . Mr. Goldsmith. From the ‘Cuban compound, it would go = IF | to whon? | 5 = Ms . Goodpasture. Tt went to Bob Shaw. | an Mr. Goldsmith, Or Dave Phillips? pe a Ms. Goodpasture, . Or Dave Phillips. | 3 Mr. Goldsmith. | How long were the tapes maintained? ! 24 Ms. Goodpasture, About two weeks, 23 “Mr. Goldsmith. What happened to the tapes after the two : i 1l=63
“WW 50955 - cc, bh. VAST TC FON , REPORPERS GUEED iG . Vb. Jan 7 STREET, 5. 20024 (202) S5u-2345 be 4.3 ioe) tn ~ oo Ob on some week period? | Ms. Coodpasture. They were erased and reused, Mr. Goldsmith. They would be erased for the purpose > of revising, dia you Say? | Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. Mx.. Preyer. Let me interrupt counsel. That is our second bell. We have to go to the Fleor to answer the quorum call, “Miss Goodpasture has been at it quite awhile now, SQ I. suggest. that we take about a ten-minute recess at this time. We will récess for about ten minutes. (A brief recess was taken,) | Mr. Preyer, ‘Thé Committee will resume when counsel is ready to resume his questions. “Mx,. Goldsmith. “Miss Goodpasture, getting back to the area of the wiretap operations of the Cuban and Soviet enbassies, would you indicate to the Committee in what manner . the photosurveillance and the wiretap operations were tied into each other? | Ms. Goodpasture, On a wiretap operation, if we got > | information that someone was going to one of those places far | in adyance, we would notify the peaple taking the photographs i to try to. get pictures oftthen,. That was one way we were tied in, Another way we were tied in,was:.if we saw where a person had been there at such. TING COMPANY, INC.
HW 450955 202% (202) 354-2345 | boc. VACTETHGIEON , REPORTERS BUTEA ONG, 300 7TH STREET, S.U. 4 fi u re 7 aa a Docld: ha % ~d ° arn - dat 7 tb au 6) 39963434 Page 66 'be possible, would it not, to go-to: the photo-production logs. there? 1-65 and such a time, we would check back to see if there was a photograph made during that. period and if there was any way that that person could be identified, Mr, Goldsmith, Similarly, if there was a tape-recording made. of a conversation and from. the conversation it became , ‘apparent that the person at. issue was either at one of the | embassies or was going to go to one of the embassies, it would : and determine who that person was? Ms. Goodpasture, We could determine if there was a | photograph there and if the photograph appeared to be the same! t | person that came upson'the wiretap. Now, theze. might. be. someone speaking. English and the only photograph that we had was someone. that was obviously a Latin i | whom we knew who did not speak English. We could rule him out! as being the person who made the call. Mr... Goldsmith. In what manner would this procedure take, place if you knew that someone was either going to the Embassy or that he was there at a particular time? How would you go | about checking to see if you. had a photograph of that person? Ms. Goodpasture. If we knew afterwards that he had been Mr, Goldsmith, Yes, : Ms. Goodpasture. We would take the coverage for that day, look at it, and see if he was there. | 2-2 me TAI AAS { RESCRTING COMPANY, INC.
Mr. Goldsmith. You would not confine yourself just to | a specific time that day? You would examine the entire day's wb [ey i be 1 “| coverage? .- Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. The log was prepared in such a (A brief recess was taken.) 5 5] way that they listed the time and the description of the | 3 | person who went there, | | 7 | Mr, Goldsmith, I bélieve earlier you testified as a | S | matter of routine, the photo-surveillance operations would 3 . | take pictures of foreigners -- in other words; a non-Mexican <~ = i 4 = io | and of Soviet. or Cuban personnel, is that true? | 5 | Ms. Goodpasture, Soviet, yes. Well, I do not know | 2) i : = 2 | about the Cubans, but I can say that for sure for the Soviets. a = 13 Mr. Goldsmith, They would ‘take the photograph of some- | : | one who did not fit that category if they were given notice | : i in advance that someone happened to be of interest, is that | : 6 | correct? ! ‘ 7 ‘Ms. Goodpasture, Right, i: 2 1g (Pause) | a = is | Mr, Preyer, We have another vote on the House Floor, | = “| I suggest. that we take another moment while I go over and | KEE ! vote. We will recess for about five minutes. : wi Fes ; ro a Mr, Preyer. The Committee will resume. i) ie You may resume questioning. / w , i Ww tn | Mr. Goldsmith, Thank you. | HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 67
(1-67 i Miss Goodpasture, who would give notice to the photo~ |. surveillance units to take a picture of a particular individual. ia) 3 Ms. Gocodpasture, Would you repeat that, please? o | * Mr. Goldsmith. Certainly. . | . | 5 2 i Let us assume that it is decided that a particular i \ i 3 7 individual is important and should be. photographed. 7 x | ' Ms. Goodpasture,. Yes. 7 S - - My .Goldsmith, « Whoiwould.give notice to the photo- : < J surveillance-wnitsof.that. fact? re . ! = 9 “Ms. Goodpasture,:: The case: officer handling the project. : u | That would have been Tom Keehan. - | : 2 Mr. Goldsmith. Assuming, for example, that one of the r 9 people monitoring the wiretap operation picked up a conversa~ | | | | tion that the person regarded to be significant and in that 3 | conversation it became apparent that something was of interest. . I REPORTERS HET ED ENG, write a note, give it to Tom, and Tom went out and notified : Is Would it be standard procedure for that person to call : = : 7 | directly to. the photo-surveillance sites? ! : 8 | Ms. Goodpasture, No, because that person did not know | f° | any of the people ocnducting the photo~surveillance. “Now I | ° 5 0 | think in the case of the unilateral operation which was | ae also handled unilaterally, wiretap operation, it was also : @ pe * handled by Tom Keehan. I am not sure if they would contact | 3 | the photo people or not, but my people could not contact the | eh “ photo people. They would have to come in to me and I would ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 68
1-68 { | | iy ° i i | the photo people. Mr, Goldsmith... How long would it take for notice to be given? Ms. Goodpasture. Well, the length of time that it would O and Tom took it to his people. 3 5 take to call somebody and locate them and talk to then, | : 6 | normeny we did not give them that information on the telephon 5 a It could be one day, two days, or three days.» | g a Mr. Goldsmith. Would it.be possible for the tntivtacad v monitoring the telephone conversation to call his. case officer rad z 0 | directly, or to call you directly? | : ni Ms. Goodpasture, No. = 2 Mr. Goldsmith. To call the case officer directly and | oO : om then for the case officer to immediately contact the photo- | = | surveillance operations’and tell them to take a picture. of | 2 re a particular individual? : ba i = is Ms, Goodpasture. In the case of Tom Keehan's. operation,, “ a it would, but in the case of the ones I handled, it would | z he not. They had to go through the person whom I. met outside, | | E 9 then he got in touch with me and I” gave the notice to Tom | Mr. Goldsmith. You are drawing a distinction now between the operations Keehan handled and those which you handled. What is the distinction you are making? Which operations did he handle? Ms. Goodpasture, He handled the unilateral. telephone oy ALOERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 30955 Docld: 32263434 Page 69
26024 €202) SS6-23945 a.c, VACUTHGTON , REPORTERS BUTLDTNG , 3.0, c st 3AM PT STREET, HW 50955 Docld: 1-69 - operations. | Mr. Goldsmith. You handled? hd Ms. Goodpasture. The liaison and the agents in the » | unilateral operation and the agents in the liaison operation 7 did not. know each other, to the best of our knowledge, were 6 not aware of each other's operations. | | al . Mrs Goldsmith. We may have covered this before, however 3 | I would like to clarify this point in terms of the photo | 3 production logs from the surveillance operations from the io | | Cuban Embassy and consulate and Soviet Embassy. and consulate. i : Those materials were all available the last time you knew | es | with the exception of that particular contact. page, and the v3 photoproduction page pertaining to that. contact page, is | is | hat correct? 13 Ms. Goodpasture, You mean available now? 18 Mr. Goldsmith, Right. : | | Ms « Goodpasture, They are available, yes. That is | * | correct : P aa Mr. Goldsmith. On the transcripts that were made of ! ; : I 2 | she telephone conversations, would the transcript have. an ! ny indication of the telephone line that was. being tapped? . , a Ms. Goodpasture, ves. | | a Mr, Goldsmith. and the location of the telephone? In other words, the Soviet Embassy, Cuban Embassy? WB aan Ms. Goodpasture. There would be a cryptonym which would: : i : PSCAlL REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
20024 (202) SSh-244u5 | Oc, VAST THC TON , RPPORTORS BUTELDENG , UM, s STREET, 39a 7TH J us > es — Q vay oo on identify it. Mr. Goldsmith, It would also, give the time of the | telephone call, is that correct? Ms. Goodpasture. . Yes, “Mr, Goldsmith. I would like now to get into the area | of the relationship between the Agency's surveillance opera~ | tions and tee Harvey Oswald. In that regard, I would like to draw your attention. to Stack B. I believe it is going to be handed to vou right — : now, Miss Goodpasture.. (Pause) I would like you to refer to page 1 in Stack B. Ms. Goodpasture... Yes. Mr, Goldsmith. Can you identify this document? ; Ms. Goodpasture. This looks like a copy of the trans-~ | cript, a xerox copy of the. transcript. | Mr. Goldsmith. Would you please read the content of this first page, the person that is marked off starting by | line 151 or starting with the line designated in the left 151. : Ms. Goodpasture.: Are you. referring to the last lines? \ Mr, Goldsmith. No. I am refering to the middle of the page, in the lefthand column, where it says number 151. | i Ms. Goodpasture. 151. That is the space on the tape l where this conversation took place. If that tape were put on ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
-the same machine that it was recorded on and started at 0, this would come up on 151. It would not apply on any other Les) machine or starting at any other number. o * Mr. Goldsmith, Would you read the conversation that | Ww ' : : - 74 follows immediately next to 151. - é | (Pause) = | S ‘ ~What does the designation "MO" signify? g a. Ms. Goodpasture, Man outside, : a] Mr,. Goldsmith. Does that mean a man outside making a | = oO phonecall inside? | ! = n | — Ms... Goodpasture, - That means that. this telephone call, 3 : 12 that. it was a man from outside of where the telephone was | o = i3 who called in, | 2 ‘4 : Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. z 1s | Is it possible to tell from page 1, at approximately what . E time this call came in? a will direct your attention to the | “ 7 top of the page, of page 1. : an “Ms. Goodpasture. I know. I am looking for -~ it was | E 'F |. sometime after 9:55. oa Mr. Goldsmith. The upper righthand portion of this . Bb ie) page indicates that the call came in on October 1, 1963, is : that correct? rd as Ms. Goodpasture. That is right. Mr, Goldsmith; At the bottom of the page there is some | wa aay writing in script, cursive. I draw your attention to that at | nm me a ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 72
1-72 this point. i Ms. Goodpasture. It is a number for the Russian Embassy. 2 | Mr, Goldsmith, Which would be the number for the | @ 4 | Russian Embassy, 15-16-55? — a | Es 5 | Ms. Goodpasture, Yes. 8 | Mr.Goldsmith. What do the other numbers signify? : = 7 Ms, Goodpasture,.. The other numbers refer to numbers S 7 that were used on the machine doing the recording... J a Mr, Goldsmith. The number 0921-1320. What does that -- o . = 10 Ms; Goodpasture.. The hours that were covered on that | Z Wi reer, . | . = ‘2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Miss Goodpasture, when did the informa~ | © _ 5 i tion contained in this transcripthfirst come to your atten- : 2 td tion? | | e 15 Ms, Goodpasture. Probably the day after it was: recotded. * Is . Mr. Goldsmith, Was that the first time that Lee Harvey - ” 7 Oswald came to your attention? | : : ‘$ Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. ! a = aa Mr. Goldsmith. What action, Lf any, did you take upon. | 5 20 | receiving this information? . | . - | | an . Ms. Goodpasture. What action? | © Ta - Mr. Goldsmith, Right. How did you respond to receiving! | “? | this ifnomation? | gS * Ms. Goodpasture. Well, the tape, the reel, was taken | to the Russian transcriber. Now I am not sure whether that ALCERSOMN REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32763434 Page 73
| | | | 1473 | i |. man who brought me the conversation took..the reel to the = 2 transcriber, or whether Herb Minell did, but normally, one 3 | or the other would carry the reel out to the Russian trans~ { . 4 | criber, 7 . E § ( Mr. Goldsmith, So, when you say that this information | 5 5 first came to your attention a day or two after the conversa-| = 7 tion was made --. ee Ms, Goodpasture, Right . e . 9. Mx. Goldsmith. Are you saying that you received the | : 10 conversation in its original form in. Russian? | : " .Ms. Goddpastire.'.No,.Ivrecéived a transcript. | | S 12. Mr. Goldsmith. Did the transcript -_ | © = 13 Ms, ‘Goodpasture. Which said there was a call made. — It ! | 2 la was a Spanish transcript and in Spanish, it said there was a | : : is call being made by a man who was trying to speak. Russian and | z ts 7 gave ‘the name Oswald, I believe. I do not happen to have a | r 17 copy, but you should have a copy of it. | Ez 13 Mr. Goldsmith; This transcript was taken to Mr. Tara~ ! a | . i = 9 | soff? | | = 70. : Ms, Goodpasture, Right. | ° | cee Th Mr. Goldsmith. When was.the first time you actually : & bal 22 saw the Russian. translation?of the conversation? : 23 ! Ms. Goodpasture, Pardon me? ! & _ 24 Mrs Goldsmith. When was the first time that you actually 25 saw the conversation after it had been translated from Russian i ALOERSOM RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 74
PAA (202) $5%-2345 c. p. VALU TNC TON , REPORTERS BUTEDING, STREET, S.V. goa 7tl nw ta be Cory MO Sos SU 1-74 into English? Ms . Goodpasture. Probably when I got a file copy back -from:Herb Minnel, within a few days after this, but I do not know the exact. date right off. Mrs Goldsmith. What was your response at that point, if any? Ms, Goodpasture, A cabie was sent to Headquarters by Mrs Minell. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you direct Mrs. Minell to send a cable to headquarters? Ms. Goodpasture.: No, I did not, because Mr. Minell was my superior, He would have been directed by the Chief -~ I say he was my superior. . He outranked me in grade. Mr. Goldsmith. Who sent the cable, Mr. or Mrs. Minell? Ms. Goodpasture. His wife, but he had his own section and he had.a separate section from. the one I was in. We did not direct each other. We might have suggested it, but he. _took his orders from the Chief of Station. Mr. Goldsmith. Did you suggest to Mrs. Minei1-- Ms . Goodpasture, I do not remember whether I did or note I may have. Mr. Goldsmith. Dia you, or anyone else, check the transcripts that were obtained from the Soviet Embassy from September 28th? “Ms. Goodpasture., I do not think I checked them at that -
wa Mr. Goldsmith, The significance of the question is as | follows. Drawing your attention to the third line after the number 151, it says: "Hello. This is Lee Oswald speaking. bo es > | I was at your place last Saturday." 3 3 | Well, October 1, 1963 was a Tuesday, the 28th was a 5 a] Saturday. I am wondering whether anyone. went back to check | 2 7 onthe transcripts of telephone conversations on-that day or. 3 | the photo=production materials -for that day? | é z 10 | Ms. Goodpasture. Thecohly*indication of the name was | : 7 from the telephone transcripts. 2 = a2 Mr. Goldsitith. Yes. | “2 \ . a : 13 ! Ms . Goodpasture, On that day. That was when we first | : 7 found out that he was there. | & ee Mr. Goldsmith. On October lst, you found out that = 1s | Oswald Rad been at the Russian Embassy the preceding Saturday. J 17 | Was any effort made to check your materials. from the surveil | a 7 lance operation, the photographic surveillance operation, or BIT |. from the telephonic surveillance operation to get additional | < ! : . | s 20 | information . on this? | _ | | seal ackersill a] 3 Ms. Goodpasture, I do not know whether I. checked it checked thoroughly after the. assassination, In fact, I think they were checked thoroughly after the information came Ww wry a oo - | ‘a v\ ~~ | immediately or not at this stage. I do know that they were | | | | ! ' i | back. from Washington identifying a Lee Oswald. The files were j PSONM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
1-76 checked at that time to find out if we had any record of a | person. named Lee or a person named Oswald. 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. Let's stayito this time. period be nm for a moment, however. — an S 7 Would it have not been standard operating procedure if | i 3 7 the transcript refers to a. person who appearéd at. the Embassy | E 7 a few days eatlier, would it not have been standard operating | é 2 procedure for eithersyou or someone else in the Mexico city g : Station to check your records from that earlier day, September c ot z to 28th, to see if, in fact, you had a photograph of this person E ne or another tape recording of his voice? a = 2 Ms . Goodpasturé.. I think that. it would have been stan~ a E 13 dard practice to have: done a file check on him. | 2 ‘4 Mr... Goldsmith. Is the answer to my question yes? = i : 5 | “Ms. Goodpasture. To. check the record files to see if ! : 13 we have a record of that name previously, but to check back | “ 7 on the transcripts, I didsnot process the transcripts from | : 3 | the Soviet Embassy as such. Whether Mr, Minell or Mrs, Mine11 ad went back and reviewed those again at that time, I do not | S 20 |) knows | | | . can - Mr. Goldsmith. The text of this. conversation includes, > fal 2 in brackets, what. apparently is an insertion hy the transla- : “3 tor. He says the same person who phoned a day or so ago and | | C 2 spoke in broken Russian. ! # -soIn light’ of that“staténent by the translator, in light | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 450955 Docld: 32263434 Page 77
| 1~77 i | of that statement by the person who identifies himself as | | Oswald that he, Oswald, had -been there Saturday and the trans+ 7 lator was saying that this person had phoned a day or so | ‘| ago, would it not have been standard operating procedure to | 5 s “have checked? | 3 | Ms» Goodpasture, Yes, I think it would have. a g 7 Mr. Goldsmith. The photo materials and the wiretap | S : materials? | : 7 Ms. Goodpasture., Right. Also, it would have been. done | : ia) automatically in the base by thé Mexicans. | : | Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. 3 12 At that time, was any photograph found of Lee Harvey = 13 Oswald? | | : re “MSs Goodpasture, The only photograph that was located _- : 13 | no, not of oswald, We had no photograph of him.. | = i = S| Mr. Goldsmith, At thattime, were you able to locate 4 17 the earlier tape recording containing a conversation involving : 18 this same individual? : = 3 | Ms, Goodpasture. I did net, but I do not know if the = a Minellts. put. those taperecordings or not at that time. I | See assume that they probably did, I know that they were put , px 2) together in November, | an Mr. Goldsmith. I would now like you to refer to pages 2 4) 2 ana 3 in Stack.B, and I ask you if you can identify what i CERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC.
| Ms. Goodpasture. Page 2? @ 2 | Mr, Goldsmith. Page 2 and 3 of the materials contained 3 in. Stack B,. 2 and 3, the next two pages. | @ 4 | Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. | (4 , ; . 5 “$ Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Can you identify these materials? | : $ | Ms. Goodpasture, Yes. ‘They also appear. to be copies | : a of portions of the transcripts. ~ | S g Mr. Goldsmith, On what date was’ this. conversation : 9 transcribed? Er withdraw: thatc question. .Let me rephrase it, | = | g | please. | : i . On what date,. according to this document ; did this - | 2 i = iz conversation take place? | & : © ened Ms. Goodpasture. 28 September 1963. -_ = 44 Mr. Goldsmith. What was the telephone that was the | : 13. source of this conversation? | = 13 Ms, Goodpasture,. The Soviet. Embassy. The conversation | . 4 7 was. recorded on the Soviet Embassy telephone, It came in | z 8 : from a woman from the consulate, the Cuban consulate. 1 = y | Mr, Goldsmith. Drawing your attention to the number 208 3 20 | the middle of the page, on the line adjacent ‘to: that... | | _ se | number, it says, tplease see that the Spanish transcription, : > an it says "WO." Does that stand for woman outside? . | * : Ms. Goodpdsture. That was written by Tarasoff . | © 2 Mr. Goldsmith, Right . That would indicate woman out- 7° side? Telephone call from a woman outside? | ee ° REOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 79 ALEERSON REPCR ws
1-79 | Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. When. he prepared the transcripts, . o ». | he prepared them on a separate sheet of paper and he put them) = | . . : { 3 | in there so that the person would tie it in with the Spanish | i io transcript, and what they have done: here is they cut off ta the top of the page, the transcript that Tarasoff did, and pasted it to the Spanish transcripts, de 20024 (202) $54-2345 | Mr. Goldsmith. Have you seen this particular document, j . . 3 or a copy of it, before? 3 | Ms, Goodpasture. Yes, my name is on it. nn On “Mr. Goldsmith, Yoursname appears in the upper right- | hand portion? HASHTNGTON , 3 Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. | ig g _ | Mr. Goldsmith, When was the first time that you saw | 5 a either this particular document, or a copy of it? | ta ul = at Ms .. Goodpasture,. Within a couplecof days after it 13 : was: transcribed, | ay a | | i. 7 | “Mr. Goldsmith. What action, Lf any, did yourhake in | s 1g response to seeing this. particular document? - ! - | Ms. Goodpastures JI do not think I teok any. I think | : 50 | Minel1 was the one who would have taken the action on thist | apd. Mr. Goldsmith.. At the time that you received the : . ET +4 i transcript. containing the conversation of October Ist, do 27 | you. recall this earlier transcription of the conversation? | nm ee Ms, Geodpasture. No, I do not think I did, because I Les) eae did not read all of these transcripts. When I brought them | \ MORGOS SSSORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 80 oh
1-80 ii in, I passed them out, and the one on the 28th of September | Al , would have gone automatically to Mr. Minell. The one cn . | | 1 October, unless it was very unusual. or my attention would | . ; have been called to it, I would not. have been doing an i analysis of them. Mr. Goldsmith.. Do you know whether the Minells= linked | |) the two conversations together? | | 7 Ms. Goodpasture, I do not know. C. 20024 (202) $$4-2945) “ f. photo production materials after seeing this particular. an Mr. Goldsmith, Did you or the Minell's check the. | | | conversation? _ i i WASAHYUGTON , Ms, Goodpasture, After seeing the name Lee Oswald, I i , think that tha pHoto production materials for that day had not been received, as.I recall, and a note was given to Tom ‘“Keehan to go out. and pick up the film for this period and REPORTERS GUPLD ONG , bring it in. The transcripts were usually received before uW, c oy . thesphotographs were. Mr. Goldsmith, At such timethat thephotographs were received, did you or anyone else go to check the photoproduc- | 300 PTH STREET, : * tion materials to see if you could identify the individual? Ms, Goodpasture,.- ves, Mr. Goldsmith. Do you recall when that happened? Ms. Goodpasture, Yes. As I remember, we were waiting for that material. to. come in, and. when. it came in, we looked i at it together and decided that there was one man who was not SON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. ie ALQER H¥ 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 81 ~
1-81 | | a Latin. Mr. Goldsmith, This. conversation came in at approxi- dt Se | Mately 11:51 a.m., is that correct, on. September 28th? Ms. Goodpasture, This conversation was recordéd at 3 3 | 1151 hours on the 28th. The 28th was ona. Saturday. We , % 6 | would have gotten it probably on Monday, following the 28th. | 5 "| Then it would have gone out to Mr. Tarasoff who would : : | have made a trnaslation from the Russian. 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. You said that you waited to receive the | ~ = a photographs and, upon receiving the photographs of production, : nf you checked these materials, is that correct? | : 2 | Ms. Goodpasture. That is right. | a : 13 | Mee Goldsmith. Upon checking the photograph. of produc- | : | tian from September 28th, did you find a photograph of Lee- | : 1 | Harvey Oswald? | . | : ! 7 il - 16 i Ms. Goodpasture, No, : ao | Mx, Goldsmith. Did you find a photograph of some other : 8 North American appearing male? | : z | | Ms , Goodpasture, We fdund a photograph of a non-Latin, © 5 | a nan who appeared to. be. a non=Latin, Mr, Goldsmith. That photograph was taken on September : 28, 1963,. In other words, these are the production materials | you were checking? Ms. Goodpasture,. THére were three sets, He appeared on the 28th, I Helieve, and on the 2ndom,. Iam not sure.it | HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 82 ALBERSON, RESORT N ANY. ING
i> hm 4 4 wt =  .§ ~N i wo , ws o =~ ™ ‘ . eS 7 ~— e 8 o ™~ o a GS? = 10 = ze ‘3 = 1 = ni a « = 4 tae ‘s = S EI i 2x = ls = ls ” V7 - -: 12 = vw = a Ef aa oC 5 20 a ee r Gn .—! Wo an an Ls) t=] A =i °F aa] Ba Gat ie tad He Li) a il La) oo a3] 1 r 0 mn HN} u Oo I a] is in the logs, the date that the man appeared there. Mr. Goldsmith. Now, Saturday, September 28th, drawing your attention to that day, would that have been.a day when the Embassy, either the Cuban. Embassy or Russian Embassy, would. have beensopen? Ms. Goodpasture, Not to the public, I do not think, but somebody could have gone there and rung the doorbell and may have been. received by the guard on duty. Mr. Goldsmith. Saturday was not really a working day, is that correct? ~ Ms; Goodpasture. No. Mr. Goldsmith. I am a bit confused, now. Earlier in lance operation was coordinated with ‘the working hours of the | embassies, Here we Have a situation where the embassies were | not working, Ms. Goodpasture, I think the photograph was the 27th, not the 28th. I made a mistake, — ‘Mr, Goldsmith. If I may finish, here we have a situatio where the photograph. was. taken on the 28th. This. was a Saturday. If the photograph were taken on the 28th then, in fact, the photo-surveillance:operation was in effect on a Saturday; which was a non-working day for the Cuban. and Soviet. embassies, is that. correct? a t | ' H | t ‘your testimony I recall your indicating that the photo-surveil- | i Ms. Goodpasture, If the photograph was. made on the 28th, TING COMPANY, INC. i
in was not a working day,.a Saturday. But the, photo base | 2) houses were places where people lived.and if they saw some~ a] thing that.they thought was unusual, they could make a pic- + | ture anytime they wanted to and send it in. But they were | 2 s | nomally required to be on duty during the times when the a | Embassy had working hours, ~ i ; i & 7 | Does. that explain it? § - Mr, Goldsmith, That. may explain it in part. I think | S 9 | we should pursue this just a bit. | z e| The photograph that you found of a person going to one : no of these embassies was taken on September. 28th, is that $ e correct? _ | S 13 | “Ms, Goodpasture. ‘tT woulda have to look ‘at them to | : 1¢ see; Right now I am a little confused about that myself, | : 1S | because this man appeared there several times, but we have | = is | copies of those. and the dates on them. I do not know if they | 4 7.) are here of not, but I went through the files that we had to , = | 2 | put those. dates on, | z ; Mr. Goldsmith. I am afraid that none of the materials S “0 i that. yousarid’I reviewed yesterday pertained to September. 28th. ay _wer_‘' |} ox even September 27th, so I am unable to show you any produc- ye tion materials for those two days, Ms,. Goodpasture,. It was not the 28th. They are not ! Hiere. I guéss it was on the 2nd of October that he appeared bo day the first time, ©
| 1-84 7 Mr. Goldsmith. You are saying now that you are not | @ 2. | .- gure whether you found the photograph of September 28th? | 2 | “Me; Goodpasture . I do not: have them here, but I did i. 1 | get all the photographs of that man, together with the dates | 3 s | on then, which I think you have. When I was. looking here on ! : 1g] this 28tn transcript, T said 28th and what 2 was “thinking | S. 7 was that when we checked the photographs for the days around | & 2 | the time of the call, we found the photograph, but I. do not | e ; | know what day it was now, right off the top of my head. 5 o| Mr. Goldsmith,.. Did you find a photograph. of just one | : a! person who appeared to be North American in appearance? $ 12 : Ms. Goodpasture. That is right. | 3 : 13 Mr. Goldsmith, How many days! photographic surveillance z 4 coverage did you review? | g is | Ms. Goodpasture, How many days? _ | : 13 Mr, Goldsmith, Right. | | 4 7 Ms . Goodpasture, They were the same days that were — | : "| mentioned in the transeripts, | F an Mr. Goldsmith. Four or five days? Would that be a | = 20 | fair estimate? _ | - | | a ‘Ms. Goodpasture. Right. : © pe 22 | Mr, Goldsmith, I notice Mr, Shaw's. name on this, on : . 23 | the top of the page, page 2, “Why would his name be up there? ! iD Ms ,. Gaodpasture,. His name would be on here because the | telephone call came from a woman from the Cuban Embassy, but | fSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. if ALOE: HW 50955 Docld:322763434 Page 85 .
1-85 { i i 1 | he was responsible for the Cuban Embassy coverage. . | | hey The first line of that says woman from the consulate, Cuban. Embassy. Mr. Goldsmith. Why did this particular document go to be ER ee reece ce es § | Shaw rather than to Dave. Phillips? | : ‘| Ms, Goodpasture, Because Shaw had handled most of the 3 7 routine work and I think he was the one who read all of the S : | transcripts. But to be perfectly exact about it, I am not 5 » | too sures rt ‘suppose Dave Phillips. aid. not. have time: to read : | the transcripts ‘and Shaw. was the one who reviewed them, | : a ° ‘Mr, Goldsmith. Is. it possible in fact that the photo- | . | graph that y you found was thesphotograph that was. taken on - | > 2 43 | September. 28th, 1963? © ' z | Ms, Goodpasture,. To answer your question we would have | ; 13 | to check the log because. the log has the date of the photo~ : : As | graphs. and a copy of the photograph attached to it. ! 4 7 | Mr. Goldsmith. In any. event , with regard to the conyer= : 8 sation of October lst and the conversation of October 28th, | = 15 | these came to your attention right axound that time period as | = 20 | oppasea to some time after the ‘assassination, is that correct?! vee | Ms, Goodpasture. The conversations that had the name ONE | | | © fa? #2 in it, Lee Oswald, came to my attention right after the conversation occurred. Mr, Goldsmith; . The conversation of the 28th, when did nw roe bed hay that first come to your attention? HW 50955 DocId:32263434 Page 86 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANTT. INS
1~ 86 q i | -- Ms, Goodpasture, I do not. recall seeing it until after @ 2 | the assassination. 3 | ‘Mr, Goldsmith, However, was your testimony earlier-to | o 4 | the effect that upon receiving the conversation reflected on | ‘2 | page 2, the September 28th, 1963 conversation, and after it | “ ~ . : * i 4 ‘| was made, to locate a picture of the person who was going to | e 7 | the Russian. Embassy, you did indicate that,. did you not? &. 1 Ms .. Goodpasture ; Well, this. conversation may have 3 a been tied into the Oswald conversation by the Russian. trans- | 2 10 criber because he did both of them about the same time.. g nl There was-only-one day's difference, It is logical = | - ; ' > 4. | to assume that he would have. recognized the voice, and we "4 . ‘ ‘ ' > = 43 i probably had Both transcripts at the same time looking for a = 1, °| Man when we were examining the photographs, mys | Mr, Goldsmith, This, in all likelihood, would have = 13 | Peen brought to your attention, — | ~ | . - “ont Ms... Goodpasture, When? | - il = *| Mr. Goldsmith, Shortly after September 28th? — = ii Ms. Goodpasture. Right. If it was with the Lee Oswald | S euponee | . | aH Mr. Goldsmith.,. Do you recall personally screening the | SNe i aa : o> ye 22: photo. production materials to try to locate a phatograph. of i 23. | Oswald, ox the person who identified himself as Oswald? i CO - . . « 24 | Ms, Goodpasture, Yes. I think almost everyone in the | 25 | station. looked at those phctograplis after the assassination, | 7 Lv ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. H¥ 50955 Docld:322763434 Page 87 ALDERSON REPORY NS
1-87 co | but Mr, Minell and I looked at them after, his wife and IL | @ 3 | examined them after the Oswald name first appeared. | 4 | Mr. Goldsmith. In. fact ; this conversation did come > 4 | to your attention well before the assassination? 2 5 . Ms.” Goodpasture. Yes, : 5 . | Mr. Goldsmith. Was there anything, in your opinion, g » | unusual. about. Oswald's being at the Cuban Embassy on a P 3 : Saturday? | : 3 Mss: Goodpasture. I do not think. that the Cuban Embassy. : 1G : connection was tied in until afterwards, I do not know. | S \ , i : 1 There were two calls on.the 27th to the Cuban Embassy, — E 12 Mr. Goldsmith. I will rephrasec the question. It is | rd] g 3 apparently that, on September 28, 1963, Oswald, accerding to ! 2 td this conversation, was at the Cuban Embassy, That is where : 1 i the conversation was made from, so at that day he was at the z 16 Cuban Embassy. 7 You indicated that that would not have been | : 7 a working day for the Cuban. Embassy, is that correct? | | 5 tg Ms Goodpasture, The photo-surveiltance, you mean? | : 17 | Mx. Goldsmith, Saturday would not have been a working | S 20 : ‘day for. the Cuban EmBassy. | | | L . 41 Ms. Goodpasture ; That«is. right. @ fe 22 | Mr. Goldsmith. Was there anything unusual about . : | 23 Oswald's. being at the Cuban Embassy on a day that was not a | a 24 working day? | | | 25 Ms, Goodpastureé, No, because foreigners were going to : HW 50955 Docldad: 32263434 Page e¢ ALSERSON REPCRENS
1-88 1 | both. places and ringing the door bell and the gate-keeper | ad | ; | frequently let them in on days other than working days. | | | 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Tf it is true that foreigners were ® > : frequently: visiting the embassies on days other than working : : 3 | days, then why was the photo-surveillance operation confined : : 6 ~ toa working days? | : g 7) Ms. Goodpasture . Because the people could not, work | | £ 8 around the clock. They had to havessome time off. One of : $ | the photographers ; as TI recall, was apart~time student, or. | : 10 i something, but it was not possible to have that thing going | : 7 all the time,. | | | 3 i2 | I think. later maybe it set.up a mechanical type suryeil= o> : 12 ‘lance that ran continuously, | - . . | : te Mr. Goldsmith. . However ; there were three different | | EN | camera sites? ! = Is _ Ms. Goodpasture . They. dia not all Hit the same. place. : 4 7 Mr. Goldsmith, Is, it. not. possible, despite staffing | 2 problems, that on Saturday and Sunday at least ane of the | : 8 : photo sites could have heen maintained? | | = 20 Ms. Goodpasture, le ‘could have been. possible Lf we had | Kae | : heen working, if our photograpHers had been American citizens | © pal 22 and staff agents: but we were working with Mexicans and not | “3 many of them worked on Sundays ; normally. “That. was their day : ‘Mr, Goldsmith, How about Saturdays? ~ 1 ' @ | ogg, , | . i i | ALDERSON 222°S0RTING COMBANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 39
dD. be} \ j ©) dh nN 1-89 C. 20024 (202) S5u-23NS VAGHTNG TON , REPGRTYERS GELDING , Ve H , | Ms. Goodpasture, I do not know. You would have to | a talk ta the case officer because it. was. determined that it | 7 just was not. feasible to use them on Saturdays and Sundays. | a Mr. Goldsmith. Even, though there were three different | si survebllance ‘sites? 5 | Ms. Goodpasture, There were three ‘aifferent photo 7 surveillances, but they all did not cover the same spote. 3 | ‘Mr. Goldsmith. Even though. there were three different | . ‘| surveillance operations of each Embassy on non-working days, | 10) all three were shut. down, is. that correct? nl Ms. Goodpasture. That is right, to the best of my | ah knowledge. | 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. I would like now ‘to refer you to pages | . | 4 through 6 of the docunents contained in Stack B. Most of | i : | 1s them are “in Spanish, I believe. THere is a summary transla- | 13 tion ‘on page 6,, | AT The pages are identified in the lower righthand corner | a et of the page. Can you identify these documents? : : | Ms. Goodpasture, ‘Yes, ‘They appear to be copies of | = 70 | the transcripts, of portions of transcripts. | un! Mr,. Goldsmith. What was the date of thé conversation : : 22 that was reflected in this transcript? | 22 | a “Ms, Goodpasture < The one on page 4 is dated 21 Septen- | % | ber 1963, | | ho 25 “Mr. Goldsmith, At what time did this conversation take | ; |
i | { - 1 | ih 4 Ms: e se source? ™d Ms... C82) Mr. oO correct? | Ms. Ms.” | | , Mr. | | | Mr. o ; MS.  oMr,. ann 7TH STREET, S.Ue REPORTERS GUTENTNG, VASHTNGTON, D.C. 20024 €202) 654-2345 Ms. - | Me. a ~ Se 32 | Ms: iH ag | a | oS 46 i i. a Hy place} directing your attentioni.to page number 6, Goodpasture. About five minutes after 4:00. Goldsmith, What was the source of this conversa- Goodpasture. The source was the liaison, The > Goldsmith, Which telephone was being tapped? Goodpasture. The Soviet Embassy telephone, Goldsmith. This was an incoming call, is that . Goodpasture, It was an incoming call from the - Cuban. consulate, - Goldsmith. On page 6, to the right of the numbers in parentheses, 1605, it says, IN. What does that stand for Goodpasture. 1605 is the hour the call occurred, Goldsmith. Right. IN, What does that stand for? Goodpasture, In. Goldsmith. OV, what. does that. stand for? ~ Goodpasture, That would be the voice outside. ” * Goldsmith, Have you ever seen this document, or a. copy of it, before? - Goodpasture.. Seen what? Mr. Goldsmith. Have you ever seen this document, or a copy of it, before? — Goedpasture, I have seen what I think was a. copy
1-91 | of this document before, but this translation is a summary, | not a translation, and when we reviewed this a year ago we | determined that it was not correct and a new transcription . | was made. = 5! Mr. Goldsmith. Is it true that. you determined that it | was correct. in substance, however it was not complete? S | Ms. Goodpasture. No. It. gave. the wrong impression = 3 | in-substance . ‘e .Mr.: Goldsmith.: At this. time, T would like to draw your |. attention to document B-1l, which is attached to Stack B, N.¢ 3) AST 'TON , 1 | just two pages. 12 Ms. Goodpasture.. ves, é | Mr.. Goldsmith. There are two pages: in document B-1, 3 ha is that. correct? _ | : sl Ms; Goodpasture. Right.: = e Mr, Goldsmith. Dees: one of them contain a conversation : 17 | from Septenber 27, 1963 at 1605 hours? — z | Ms. Goodpasture, - Yes. : 19 | Mr. Goldsmith. Is that accurate? = 7 Ms. .2¢o6dpasture. To the best of my knowledge, it is. — a Mr.. Goldamith, An accurate summary of that conversa- 3 Ms:.Goodpasture, Yes. 2% | Mr. Goldsmith. You have indicated that you have seen 25 ' this document before. “I am not referring to Bal, I am going | \OSRSON REZORTING COMPANY, INC.
‘back to page 4 of document. B. : Ms. Geodpasture. ‘Page 4? dad indicates that you have seen this document before, is that Gay 1 - Mr.. Goldsmith. There is: a .routingindication that [| correct? | On . i Ms. Goodpasture, Yes, — . / il . 7 Mr. Goldsmith.) When was the first time that you saw i this decument? — . 20024 €202) $5u-2945 OQ Ms, Goodpasture, Probably within a day after the > N.¢ . conversation occurred, Well, it would not have been the day | z i / after, “This: was on the 27th, “It would have. been picked up : = 12 on the following Monday. | | | Oo : "3 Mr, Goldsmith, ‘What action, if any, was taken in | 3 a i response? _ ; | E Vs | | Ms. Goodpasture,; “These were routed to the Minells, | : Ns Mr. Goldsmith, When was the first time that this | “ ae | conversation was linked to Lee Harvey: Oswald? | : 8 Ms. Goodpasture. -I do not. know. | | - 1? Mr. Gol dsmith.. Let us turn to pages 7 and’ 8 of docunent = 10 : By. Can you identify this. document? _ | | — | Ms. Goodpasture, Yes . ) Mr, Goldsmith, What is that? : Ms. Goodpasture.. “It appears to be a copy of a part of | a transcript. 7 i Mr. Goldsmith. ‘Daes. it reflect a telephone conversation ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. —
that came in on September 27, 1963, at 4:26? © Ms, Goddpasture, This is a telephone conversation on 3 the Soviet Embassy line , different from the different telephone a + | number and it is out to the Cuban Embassy from a man inside | 5 the Soviet Erbassy making the call to Sylvia Duranda at the | : é : Cuban Embassy. | | g 7 Mr . Goldsmith. “Have you ever seen. this. document before? g 3 Ms. Goodpasture. T have seen the original, yes. a $ Mr. Goldsmith. When did you. see that for the first : 1 Ms ‘ Goodpasture : Probably with a couple of days after | = 12 | it occurred, o> 5 13 Mr. Goldsmith.: When was this: document linked to Lee . | z ts Harvey Oswald? | | E 15 Ms, Goodpasture. I do not know, ‘I think after the > 2 16 . assassination,. , ! ; 7 | . Mr, Goldsmith. How long were the CIA and Mexico City. | : 8 station's tapes concerning Oswald's. conversations with. Cuban : : 19. and Saviet. officials maintained? _ . 5 20 : MS. Goodpasturé.. ‘I think. they were probably destroyed | we at the same time that other tapes for that period were ! | & aed 22 destroyed... The translations: concerning the part where he | 23 attempted to speak in. Russian, the tapes which were taken to | & 24 Tarasoff may have. been retained a longer time or a shorter : 23 time, I do not know. | : = my ees eye t 7s Perens ALOERSON SEPORTING COMPANY, INC. BW 509455 Docld: 32263434 Page 94
1-94 nm time? 1 Mr. Goldsmith. Why woild they have been retained a longe Ms. Goodpasture. Well, occasionally he kept voice © 4 | samples, but t do not know if he kept one of this call, or | 3 5 | not. 5. at - Mr. Goldsmith, At the time of the assassination, did | g "| the Mexico City station have on hand the tapes of the Oswald | s 2 | conversations? | : | Ms. Goodpasture« Not to my knowledge. . | : o| “Mr. Goldsmith. “To your Inowledge, was @ voice comparison : 7 ever made between the tapes to determine whether the same = = 2 person was speaking in each one? | © . : 13 Ms Goodpasture. I do not knows ' I..did not. make one, | = i a : i¢ | I do not know whether someone else made one or not. There is | = is | a transcript, a cable here, in which the transériber of the ! = 7. Soviet tape says that it is the same voice, which would lead 4 7 | one to.Helieve that he made a voice comparison, but it just | : 8 : may have been that: he ; from his: memory, came. to that ‘conclu- | = i - S20 | Mr. Goldsmith, I would like to refer you now to Stack ! a C and, in Stack C,, if you would kindly xefer to page:57,".- : lew | i . ME pe’ a2 i please, 4 Ms... Goodpasture. ‘Page? | e 24 “Mr, Goldsmith, Page 57, | 43 Ms. Goodpasture; Yes, : ALSERSON RESORTING COMPANY, ING. ; HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 95 xr
1-95 | Mr, Goldsmith. On the lower righthand corner of the. | © 4 | newspaper article that is contained there , Marked off with a | 3 i dark line is a paragraph. Kindly read that paragraph,. | . oO 4 starting with the words ; "The investigators." | = 3 | (Pause) : j | Ms. Goodpasture. This would suggest -- | : S 7 Mrs Goldsmith. One moment , oo | £ ; 3 i Ms. Goodpasture. -= Tarasoff compared the voices on | ! * $ | a tape of October. | : . 7 | Mr. Goldsmith. .Whose handwriting appears? _ | : 7 Ms. Goodpasture . That is mine. | | a | Mr. Goldsmith. That is your handwriting? | | oC - 13 oe Ms, Goodpasture, That is mine. . | Z td Mr. Goldsmith, That Indicates that the caller -< could | : is you please read that to us. | Read what: you wrote that day. | 2 i = “14 Ms, Goodpasture. The. cabler from the Cuban. Embassy was | : 7 | unddentt tied until headquarters sent traces on oswald, Now, . | that would have Been in answer to the cable that was dated . | : is : 8th october. “I believe their cable was 18 Octobex , and | ¢ 30 voices compared by. Findglass. ~ Pindglass was the pseudonym ! . | used by: Tarasofé . : a pa 22 Mr. Goldsmith, In fact, that indicates --. | 23 ‘Ms, Goodpasture. “He compared the Cuban Embassy voices. ! e 24 with the others, with Oswald's call, in which he used his 25 i names | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 96
Ms. Goodpasture, I said 18 October because I thought that was the daté of the cable, 10 October. t2 - Mr, Goldsmith.- When would that have happened? Ms. Goldsmith, What happened to that tape containing | : Oswald's voice? | Ms, Goodpasture. What happened? a | Mr.. Goldsmith. What happened to that tape, yes, a aa “Ms.-Goodpasture, I do not Know. 20024 (202) S58-2345 MeO Mr, Goldsmith. Do those. tapes exist today? 2C, p ‘Ms, Goodpasture, ‘What? zg (0) | 2 Ht Mr. Goldsmith. Do those tapes exist today? = i . oe 3 ad Ms. Goodpasture,.. If they do, I do nat know where. they : a | are. | | | | : 7 Mr.. Goldsmith. Are you aware of the fact that, after Hl | 1s ' the assassination, it has been alleged that some tapes were > PRE PORVERS 18) given te’ the FBI to listen to and that it was said that these | S.t a tapes. contained Oswald's: voice on them? — ; . Ms. Goodpasture, Someone asked me about that, but .I do | in - | . | not think that I Had those tapes, I da not remember if I. did, - and I was not aware that we gave any to the FBI. I do not | 300 PTH STREET, “o i 7 aN | i i i q Know whether Mr, Minell got tapes from Mr. Tarasoff and passed . oe then to the PBI, or if the Chief of Station or Deputy passed | anything to the FBI. I just do not’ know. “‘Mr.. Goldsmith, . At any time, did anyone in the Mexico ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 97
City station find any photographs showing Lee Harvey. 2 - Oswald? tn -—- _ = ~ = acne ete oe ] Ms. Goodpasture,.  Notiu:to:my: knowledge. Mr, Goldsmith. How many times did. Oswald visit the Cuban and Soviet embassies and consulates? Ms. Goodpasture, .We did an analysis of the conversa~ tions which indicated, I think, five times. 2n02% €202) SSe-23n5. | | | | | Z| . Mr,.Goldsmith. He. visited the embassy and consulate | | | | | : 3 3] approximately five times? And even though he visited these — fang i : s 0 | places: five times, the station's photosurveillance operations | : a never took a picture of him, is that correct?, 2 | Ms. Goodpasture. That is right. — : / 135 _ My. Goldsmith. Is there any reason that you can give t as to why the photosurveillance operation, having had five | rs 154 shots: at Mr, Oswald, nevertheless -- REPORTERS BUTELDTNG, if) | Ms, Goodpasture. I could speculate, but I just assume | 4 7 | that he went there later in the day than they were still | 28 wroking. : EF Mr. Goldsmith. In effect, they would have had an ! = | opportunity: ta.get.a picture of Mr, Oswald, or the person who | ccwec.' | said he was Mr, Oswald, when he went into the embassy and. : Be se ‘fs ++, when he went out of there, so really, there’ were ten oppor= i tee os , - aa { tunities to take pictures of Mr.: Oswald and yet there was.no picture taken of him, : C4 / 4 H i “ ‘ Ms, Goodpasture, That is right. - | RSON REPORTING COMBANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 36
Hiv 50955 1-98 i 1 | Mr. Goldsmith. Earlier, you indicated that Winston Do, , | Scott was a conscientious administrator, is that correct? ai Ms ,. Goodpasture,.. That is right. 2NO2 €202) S5n-2345 nc. SUTMGTON , WA 3 GUTLDTNG , REPORTER: s.W. 390 PTH STREET, Docld: Mr. Goldsmith, Aftertthe assassination, was he satis- dap be fied with the performance of the photo~surveillance operation ‘| in regard to.this particular matter? | 4 ~ an ce . _— 7 “Ms. Goodpasture. Well, we still did not. have the ‘that. he used and we could not. prove that. one of our people a?) io | was sitting there, making photographs, and missed hin, . Human error if. the photograph station was working that. he was missed, oO Mr, Goldsmith, Without intending to sound argumenta-. tive in any way; I would raise the question that needs to be raised, which is how efficient. is the: photosurveillance © operation that has ten. opportunities to take a picture of _~s | | someone and apparently fails in each instance? | Ms:. Goodpasture, Tf think the people that were handling oO the photobase at. that time sat down and tried to figure out why it happened. As I recall, they aid not think it was terribly unusual. | I think the Cubans said their machinery was not i i | 23. | functioning, and I think for the Soviets it was ativa time | when they were not working, but I am not sure. i , . i ho tan Mr, Goldsmith, Did you, or anyone else, find a picture g | exact times that ‘oswata went to these places, the inferences | |
| | t . | | | 1-99. | | ef someone else who was at the embassies at the. time when | a 2 Oswald was thought to have gone there? — 2 Ms. Goodpasture.. Pardon.me? | © | 4 ) DO Mr. Goldshith. Did you or anybed y else find a picture | a) | of somebody. who went to the Cuban ox Soviet enbassies at a | | 4 4 , ‘time. whenn Oswald was thought to have gone there? | = 7 Ms. Goodpasture. No. “We found a photograph of a man PS 8 bit later it. was determined that he went there after Oswald : "| had left. z 10 “Ms. Goldsmith, When you found this. particular photo= : tt graph, did you think that it. pertained to Oswald? : | 12 Ms «: Goodpasture. _ We did not know, because at the time | G E 13 that photograph was found , as I. recall , we did not know _ | | ; is that Oswald had already left there, It was not until after : - 1S the assassination that we had the dates: of Oswald's - ) = i departure ‘from Mexico. - | | ° ve | Up untdl. the assassination time and after the assassina~ 2 8 | tion , it. still. could have been pertinent that. this man. who : — 19 was unidentified could have. been Oswald if he had been still : 5 7 there the 15th. | | ‘ . KE u | Mr. Gokdsmith. But the agency or the Mexico City sta~ : - & fal 22 tion. never made a connection between this man and Oswald? | od : Ms» Goo dp asture. ‘No. | na a Mr: Goldsmith. I have just handed you a document that ! 3 shows. an. individual i THe background , the document. contains a | : ALDERSCM RESORTING COMPANY, INC.
1-100 “copy of the photograph that was taken of. an individual. The background to the documert has been cropped out, is. that fu correct? — ; | Ms, Goodpasture. Yes. . | ‘Mr. Gobdsmith. Is this the man whose picture was taken | 5 leaving the Cuban or Soviet embassy? _ - e 7 Ms. Goodpasture. Yess oo | s g) Mr. Goldsmith. I would like now to refer you to Stack : a Cy page 2, We have reviewed this particular. document before, | : ta | Do you have. it before you? : nl Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. | | | Mr, Goldsmith. We reviewed this document earlier today, | : re | Ms.: Goodpasture, Right, : | Mr, Goldsmith. Drawing your attention to the first | | : is paragraph, it indicates, does it net, on 1 October 63 an | ; "7 American male speaking broken Russian. made contact with the. | : e Soviet embassy, ‘Is. that correct? — = | Ms .Gogdpasture.’ That is right. | 5 =| “Mx, Goldsmith. In the Second paragraph, it refers:te a photograph, does it not? : ! : Ms, Geodpasture, Yese 23 “Mr, Goldsmith, Does the second paragraph refer. to the ! @ * photograph I have. just given you? . | Ms. Goodpasture,. “Right. { i ul 4 4 HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 101
1-101 | 1 Mr; Goldsmith. Does it refer to the plotograph I have just given you a copy of? | Ms. Goodpasture, Yes. Itcrefers to a photograph of this man. I am not sure that these photographs were made. z 7 Mr, Goldsmith. In fact, nine or ten photographs may i i. 2 | have been taken of this particular man? We do not know that e 7) ents was the particular one taken on that day, is that correct? é a | Ms, Goodpasture, That is right. ; | Mr.. Goldsmith. Why was the reference made in this | Zz 0 cable to a photograph taken on October 1, 1963? - | : ny MS. Goodpasture. It should have been October 2, ‘That | g 12 October lst was the wrong date. I showed you the log yesterday © : 1 | "to show you how. that error occurred, | = ie Mr. Goldsmith, At this point, let us look at the log. 2 : 1s In order to do that, you will have to look at Stack A. It | = le | is A-4, I believe it is marked Stack A-4. Do you have that 4 7 | before you? Bo you have the log before you? | | E: sy Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. i wn | = | Mr. Goldsmith. Looking at the log, can you now . ~ = 2 | expiain to the Committee why the cable referred to a photo~ | a graph taken on October lst when actually it was taken on : co pe “ another day? | | 23 Ms. Goodpasture, If you look at the log here you see | 26 | at the top -- it was just an oversight on the part of the person who was writing that cable, It looks as though the | - ELRERSON. REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page i107
1-102 date is 1 October, but if you read it very closely you see there are only two frames that were shot on 1 October. and 2 October, it starts up with frame number 3, et cetera, et cetera, and there the shots occur. That is the only explana- | ‘tion I. can give, ro) - Mr, Goldsmith. Is your explanation that whomever | } i | | | 7 | zeferred to the log simply looked at the date at the top of i 2002% (202) S5N-2345 2 | the page, the date being October lst, and. did not see any ue 2 | reference totthe date October 2nd? | ra = 0 Ms, Goodpasture. Right. Z ud .. Mr, Goldsmith. Getting back to the cable, what. is the | 3 ne date of the cable? > E 3 | Ms. Goodpasture. 8 October, | : | Mr, Goldsmith, If the photograph was taken on October ! : 5 | and, what was the reason for the delay in transmitting this | = | information to headquarters? ! ° 17 | Ms. Goodpasture. It took about a week for processing, 3 - 3 || genexally.. Hero or three days, Someone had to go out and : a | an = P| get it and bring it in. : : an Mr.. Goldsmith. You indicated earlier in your testimony | Bea that the photograph. you found was never linked to Oswald, yet - ed a2 f paragraph 2 of this cable is tied in to paragraph 1 which. | specifically refers to. an American male who said his name i was Oswald... | Does that not indicate that, in fact, the link was made? ALDSESON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 450955 Docld: 32263434 Page 103
1-103 i Ms. Goodpasture. As I said, the link was made earlier, | « 2 It did not relate to Oswald. That was hindsight. At the time 7 this cable was written, the person who wrote it thought it | (> a J could possibly have related to Oswald. ! ma . Mr, Goldsmith, I believe that my question earlier was | : clear, If you have a problem understanding my questions, please. tell me. . | 202" (202) $$-2345 “ee ee ere ore nen ce amen a eee me 2 ‘Are there any questions at this time? S : Mr. Preyer. No. = 4Q Mr. Goldsmith. When did the inaccurate description of | ral 4 = nl Oswald contained in the first paragraph first come to your | = va attention? a = os Ms. Goodpasture. Page 3? | = i | z a Mr. Goldsmith. Let us take a look at page 3. Can you | e43 identify the cable that appears on page 3? . | = 1s | Ms. Goodpasture,. The description in paragraph 1 of | - : a oi | Oswald is different than the description in paragraph 2. - | Zoi | . ° Mr. Goldsmith, .What is the cable that is found on page | = j3.) 3? = i ; e a9 | Ms, Goodpasture. That is a cable. from Washington | , 21 | headquarters sent to Mexico in reply to the Mexico cable to | este | a S27 12) headquarters. 234 This is giving headquarters tracing on Oswald. alte 24 Mr. Goldsmiths: When was this cable sent? Ms «. Goodpasture. — When. wags it sent? ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DocId:32263434 Page 104
ba be tn. 6) ‘| “ann PTH STREET, Sl REPORTERS BUTEDENG, WASHINGTON, DLC. 20024 (202) S6"-2345 J=104 } Mr. Goldsmith. Yés, | . a | Ms. Goodpasture, The day that is on there is 10 October 1963. “ Mr. Goldsmith. Is it your testimony, then, that based upon the description of Oswald in paragraph 1 of that cable it was realized that the photograph that had been taken on _ October 2nd in fact did not show Oswald? Ms. Goodpasture, It was realized that it was not Oswald. | Mr. Goldsmith. I would like now to refer to page 5. / Mr. Dodd. Counsel, just one point. What was your response to that last. question? -Mr. Goldsmith. I believe Congressman Dodd has a | question. | | Mr. Dodd, What was your response to that last question? Ms, Goodpasture, The last question, that the identifi- cation of Oswald that they had a file trace on in the Washing- |.ton cable was different from the one that the description of | | the man who was in the photograph. | Mr. Dodd. .You reached that conclusion on what day; i with the 10 October '63 cable, what day would you have received that.on that day, 10 October? Ms. Goodpasture. We would have received it on about the 10th or lith of October, within a day from the time it was sent here. And I said we reached that conclusion. There. | ‘ ALCGREONM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
| | . : 1-105 { . | ! “was controversy there over whether this man. could have been | 8 2 | Oswald. | 3 Mr. Dodd. Counsel, why do you not proceed? | p 4 | Mr. Goldsmith. .Would you describe the controversy that | >. i you .are referring to, Miss Goodpasture, over whether this 5 3 | man was Oswald? | | 8 7 | Ms. Goodpasture, I felt that it was not Oswald. S 8 Mr. Goldsmith. When did you feel this? At the time | : 9 that the cable was sent? : 10 Ms. Goodpasture. As soon as we. got the description, | 5 | because I did not think this man, this photograph, could © ws = 12 | possibly be the same man that was described here, | ec VS Mr, Goldsmith. What actions were taken at that point ; ie to clarify the situation? | . | E 1s , Ms. Goodpasture., I had an argument, I think, with the ! : 13 Deputy Chief of Station, Mr. Scott, over it. He said, oh, : 4 im that may be incorrect and so forth, But there was quibbling z 8 ! over it, z 19 i . Mr.. Goldsmith, Going back to the cable that appears = 20 on page. 2, Iam still not sure that. I understand why the | ee photo was sent. to headquarters, What indication did you 2 oo ye #2 have that Oswald had been to’ the Cuban or Russian. Embassy on | 3) october lst ‘of 2nd of 1963? | | | | 94 fi . . + a . ‘ e . : a oe The transcripts that we reviewed earlier gave no indica-| | tion that he was going to be there on that day. | i LOSSSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 106 ALDERSON REPOP
1-106 ° Ms, Goodpasture. ‘What was that again now? ihe) the area and that there was a possibility that he had gone 3 Ms, Goddpasture. Right. | i ! | Mr. Goldsmith. Gave ro ‘indication ‘that Oswald was 5 5) going to be at the Russian or Cuban Embassy on Octoher 1st | é a or 2nd, | g | “Ms. Goddpasture. That is right. But.once this. mistake . § 5 | was made and this cable was sent, it was: compounded, because 3 5 | the cable was used as: reference material, rather than going : 10 | back to the log. We did not get around to correcting that. | : ne ‘date. | | 3 | -.Mr. Goldsmith. I understand that but, however, at the | ag = 1 i time this cable was sent, it refers to an American malé | E a entering the Soviet Embassy on October Ist and now we find | : IE | that it really was October 2nd. And apparently you checked | Pa | \ : 1s | the production logs for October lst and 2nd. | “ 7) My question is, since the transcripts gave no indication E a that Oswald had been at the Embassy on October 1st or 2nd | = i. why was this picture connected to Oswald? You have no inde- | S 20 | pendent information that. Oswald_had been to the Embassy on | ee.'| | october lst or 2nd? | | o pe a4 Ms, Goodpasture; That is true, but we could not tell : 20) trom this. conversation on. the ist that he did not. go there<. | s . u | We also could not tell from our transcripts that he had left : HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 107 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. Mr. Goldsmith. The transcript that we reviewed earlier
‘1-107 Mr. Goldsmith, . You. checked the photosurveillance rhe) i ena ' 1 i ‘correct? ge ; materials for approximately a four or five day period, is tha eet een OL a te Es 5 | Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, I think it is. : 3 Mr, Goldsmith.. During that four or five day period : 7 | Oswald was the only -- not Oswald. This man was the only | s 5 | non-Latin appearing man whose photograph you found, is that : | correct? | : ey Ms. Goodpasture. I think that it was the only “non- | : nl Latin appearing person's photograph that we found that we a! could not identify as somebody else. A lot of the-people oe 13 who went to the Soviet Embassy all the time, we came to know ! a who they were. After they had been identified, they made 7 x ii : | E ist frequent visits there. | = 7 Mr. Goldsmith. I would like to refer your attention | a | now: to page 5. | : ‘a | Mr. Preyer, Counsel, may I speak to you for a moment? | E | (Discussion off the record.) : s 2 | ‘Mr. Dodd. Miss Goodpasture, I am checking on the time | SE 3 remaining for questioning. Counsel indicates that he would | af eer At yb d a “te/) { tt / 2 require something less than another hour. Is that right? Mr, Goldsmith. Yes, Ms. Goodpasture, Can you stand it that. much-bonger? Let us. get it over with.. HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page 105 ALSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
with? ihe) 1-108 | Mr. Preyer. Would you prefer ahead and get it cover ree) Ms, Goodpasture. I would rather get it over with, if you can stand it. da wily “Mr. Preyer, All right, I think we might proceed at this time. I will have to ose 20024 (202) S54-2345 ' excuse myself. ; Mr. ‘Goldsmith... For purposes of clarification, the J a reason that this particular photograph was selected was. < . z 10 | because during the four or five day period in which the : 1 | photo productionibts were checked, this individual was the 3 . = V2 | only non-Latin appearing male whom your personnel in the ¢ A . ® = ig Mexico City sation were unable to identify, is’ that correct? = t4 | Ms. Goodpasture, “That is right. 2 iy ~ ‘ : I Mr, Goldsmith. Drawing your attention to page 5 -- = 16 before we get into page 5, was Oswald's, er the person whom 4 \7 you thought was Oswald, was his appearance at the Embassy : ‘S considered to be unusual or of any significant interest?. a = | Ms, Goodpasture, Would you. ask that. question again? 5 7 I am not sure I understood. | Ser a Mr. Goldsmith. Was. the:fact that Oswald or the person a ~ whom you identified as Oswald appeared at thevenbassies. when 3 he did, was that. considered unusual? S aa Ms. Goodpasture.. No. Frequently there were callers, | people who were American citizens, long distance calls, local HW 450955 Docld: 32263434 Page 109 ALDERSON REPSCRTING COMPANY, INC.
1-109 calls, and so many of them were crackpots, in a sense, that. ihe) it was just another one, another name that we might or might CoN) not identify. But when we. found that there was no record in our file traces it did not mean anything to us exceptsa name wry oe = | at that time, | s 4 Mr. Goldsmith, Drawing your attention now to page 5 e 7 of the cable that was sent to the Mexico City’station from the S 3 CIA headquarters, this is page 5 of stack C -- : 3 . Ms Goodpasture. Yes, | a z 10 | -Mr, Goldsmith. Who was the releasing officer for this : 7 cable? 12 MS. Goodpasture. Who wrote it? | 2 : 13 Mr. Goldsmith. Who was the releasing officer? Zoi Ms. Goodpasture. The releasing officer? : 1§ Mr. Goldsmith. “Yes. . 2 14 Ms, Goodpasture,. The Acting Director for Plans, His — | r 17 | name was Tom Karamess inas.. | : 7 Mr. Goldsmith. At that. time, Mr. Karamesinas was the | : 1g | Director for Plans? | ¢ 20 i Ms... Goodpasture. Yes. I think Assistant Director, | KEE excuse me, ; | G pa’ 22 Mr. Goldsmith, Under what circumstances would somebody 24 like Karamessinas serve as a teleasing officer? | @ ae ! Ms-e. Goodpastures I do not know. It may have been the hour of the day that it was sent. He may have been the only : ep pues ay 2275 mer me em AAS far, HW 50955 DocId:32263434 Page 110 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, ING:
1-110 | ‘f ® | | person still around at that time. 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Karamessinas? 2 -Ms. Goodpasture.- I was in Mexico so I would not. really | i fu know why he did it at headquarters. aber e a eee Oa 5 5 Mr. Goldsmith. I understand. ! 5 é Ms. Goodpasture, ves. | g 7 | Mr, Goldsmith. Mr, Karamessinas' position was a | e 3 | relatively high one in the CIA hierarchy, is that correct? e : 5 Ms. Goodpasture, Yes, | : 10 : Mr. Goldsmith. This was a matter that was not consideréd 2 i ; 2 1] ! to be of particular significance, is that correct? | $ 12 : - Ms. Goodpasture, It was not significant to us at the : = 13 | time that -- before we got the name. trace. It may have been | z is i considered significant here in Washington because it was. | : 13 possibly because ‘he was a former defector. | 2 Is Mr. Goldsmith. I see. The Washington authorities may 4 have regarded this. as significant and upon receipt of this i : 8 cable in Mexico City station, I believe you indicated before | z ¥, ; that Mr. Tarasoff apparently made a voice: comparison of the | S 20° taped conversations, Is that correct? | | Ke MS. coodpasture. Yes, : ie pa? 22 i Mr. Goldsmith, If headquarters ‘considered this matter | 23 to be significant, would they have heen apprised of the | G ** | results of this voice comparison? : Ms. Goodpasture, I do not know whether they would or 3 il . HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 111 ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, ING.
lelll | 1} not. | ad 2 MR. Goldsmith. As a matter of routine procedure? | 3 Ms. Goodpasture. The voice comparison only. indicated | sd s | _ that he ‘called the Soviet embassy and the Cuban embassy. We ! 5 § had his name, a name, Oswald, in the txaffic toithe Soviet é 6 | embassy to start off with, and the only thing the voice | g 7 | comparison did, it tied in that name, but we had no way of § 8 | identifying our caller exactly with the subject of this | : 5 | trace, | | Z 10 ! Mr, Goldsmith. Are you saying, then, that the fact - : YW that Oswald, the fact that you were able to, by voice compari-+ $ 12 son, establish that he had been to the Cuban Embassy and the | @ 13. Soviet Embassy was not Significant? . | fa i - Ms. Goodpasture. That is what we said in the note, 13 In the transcripts, he called the Soviet embassy from the REPOWTERS BUTENTHG , 7 ts Cuban embassy, a man, and that voice by the Russian trans- | ‘ 7 eriber was identified as the same voice as the person who | e ‘g | said his name was Lee Oswald. | = Fs Mr. Goldsmith. I. understand that. But. headquarters | ‘ 5 . 20 was never apprised of that voice comparison? Ms. Goodpasture, I think they were in a cable. = yt | Mr, Goldsmith. Prior to the assassination? 2 Ms. Goodpasture. No, I do not think they were prior co 24 to the assassination. 4 i Mr. Goldsmith, Apparently the fact that the Lee Harvey | “t HW 50955 Docld: 322763434 Page i112 ALZERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
| ! 14 i t > | 3 i i . . 4 i . \ 34 ; = | . + | 4 ld - re] ~ i Oe : 1 if a . ib wa on -~ . i? ~ » od -. a 7 ee 1 = ~ { . si SS can a ; = {9 1 S. om t e tle = if et } ~ 12 | . a i a 2 | bes! 14 . i ei = i = : = f xs ta if & i i | ze 135 2 i wi i = 1o: | ~ { ~ t | i ad . “ 7 i < | ket H S18] ee 4 “ | _ ~ | = TF | ~ ' i e : c aa | fal av { : oe an = at ees | a Mes 22 | tf oe iN 23 4 if it ae | sei met ot a 4 it 1-112 Oswald was considered significantly significant. for Mr. -Karamessinas to be the releasing officer of the cable to the Mexican. station and a voice comparison is made for the purpose of determining essentially whether Oswald had been to both the Cuban and the Soviet Embassy. According to your testi- mony, the results of that voice comparison were that in fact it was the same person. | ‘Are you saying that the fact that Oswald had been to both the Cuban and the Russian embassy was not considered - gufficiently important to notify headquarters prior to the assassination? | Ct Ms. Goodpasture, No, because af that stage, we had no ‘way of proving that the man who made that call in Mexico was the same man that this trace was about, Mr. Goldsmith, The cable from headquarters gives back- ground information on Mr. Oswald, does it not? Ms « Goodpasturé. Right... We assumed that it probably was. Mr. Goldsmith. Right. After receiving the cable, a voice comparison is made, It is determined that the same person was talking on each tape and. there is no follow-up to headquarters, even though ‘headquarters clearly considered this to he significant? Ms. Goodpasture. The follow-up was made by disseminat- ing this information from the traces locatly and trying to HW 50955 Docld: 32263434 Page i113 ALOSRSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. i
1-113 & identify Oswald, trying to locate the man. That is the way | 7 the follow up was made. We thought that he may still be in | a | 3 Mexico. | 7 . | / Mr... Goldsmith. The point is, howevey, that upon the 7 5 S| making of a voice comparison, if, in fact, that was done, 8 7 that information was not communicated to anyone, | g 7 | Ms. Goodpasture, I do not know if it was or not. a You would have to check the file completely, ‘the cable © | 3 traffic, to see if it was.’ To the best of my knowledge, it | Fad z 10 | was not. until after the assassination. = Hn ‘Mr. Goldsmith: If it were not, would that be unusual? | a ‘ : * 2 | Ms, Goodpasture.. Now | od : 1 Mr: Goldsmith. Despite the fact that this was considered : so something of significance by headquarters? | 3s is | Ms, Goodpasture, Headquarters -- no, because they | : 3 could not have done anything with the voice comparison. , a 17 | Mr. Goldsmith. Perhaps: they could not have done any- | : 3 thing with the. voice comparison, but they may have considered | a . | = | it. to be even more serious had they been informed that not | = 20 omy had Oswald been to the Soviet Embassy but he also had | | an been to the Cuban Embassy. . | | | a | Ms. Goodpasture. I think they knew that, because the ' s call from the Soviet Embassy came from the Cuban Embassy. | = * Mr. Goldsmith. Your cable of October 8th does that. — : « indicate that the call came from the Cuban Embassy? i Ms. Goodpasture, Pardon me? HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 114 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
Hiv 50955 1-114 : Mr. Goldsmith... Your cable of October 8th, I am i ; 7 referring now to. page 2. Does that give any indication that 2 | the eat came from the Cuban Embassy? al Ms. Goodpasture. | The first call was not made -- no, F S| it does not. | . 2g Mr. Goldsmith. In fact, headquarters did not know g 7 | that he had been t6 the Cuban Embassy. é 7 Ms. Goodpasture. Pardon me? : si Mx Goldsmith. In fact,. headquarters did not. know that = 0 | he had also been to the Cuban. Embassy. 2 im | Ms. Goodpasture. At that point, no. 5 12 [ . Mr. Goldsmith. At least, according to your recollec- = 13 | tion, it was not until after the assassination that head- - = | quarters was informed of that fact. = a Ms. Goodpasture. That. is probably right. = S| Mr. Goldsmith. Have you ever spoken to Mr. Karasmes= 7 "| sinas about. this matter? S af Ms....Goodpasture Pardon me? — ef | Mr, Goldsmith, Have you ever spdken to Mr, Karamessinas = 0 about this matter? | an Ms. Goodpasture,. No, and I do not think that in fa? 22 | Mexico that we would have known that Tom Karamessinas signed | gs on this cable, beeause the cable that came down there did | not have the names of the people on them. an oo THis °f8-a:headquarters file copy that. you are. working Docld:32263434 Page 115 ALOE: i t | { ! l t i i 1 | t L 1 I
wn ta da = | nN if ' | “ a > os | o >. ou / wnt os ae i s 33 Ss { o™ 4 i ° = H SS you . 4 oo { Hl i = 10 | o _ a : me tt = H 3 s i = 15 3 re} es i = i a 4 a nt! pm H = { aU fw so: &. $304 i) i = su t ~ | - { -~ | a va ! = a0 = igus a 1 a 1 = 19) * at ~ | ¢ roma 710 i) ad ' } | ato! Sl oC Ae ! OSE goa y434 { my Z nt i as 5 de 43 il 1 i HI . 24 | | ' ae Gf 75 ot | 4 l-115 with here and it is next to a copy from the Mexico station file. Mr. Goldsmith. There are other indications on the cable as well that headquarters regarded this incident to he significant, is that.not. true? The cable also contains. other indications that indicated that headquarters regarded this _matter.to be significant, is that not true? For example, in. paragraph 4 -- I am referring now to page 5 of Stack C, paragraph 4 -~- it says, “Station should pass info RIF(1) and it gives cryptonyms of various govern- mental agencies. Certainly that is an indication that . headquarters regarded this as significant. Ms. Goodpasture, That: information was taken immediately and all efforts were made to locate the man in Mexico, think- ing that he was still there, but this cable did-not tell us that he had come back to the states. Mr. Goldsmith. I understand, The only point I am making here, this is a spearate indication that headquarters | regarded this to be a matter of significance, the fact that they told you to pass along information to other people. Ms. Goodpasture., That is: right. Mr. Dodd, Counsel? | (Discussion off the record.) Mr. Dodd. We are going to take ‘a five or so minute recess. . There is a recorded vote on the Floor, TI will give HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 116 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. i ! i |
1-116 — 4 Vo you aminute to get. a breather and I will be right back to | e 2 continue with the questioning. os | | | The Committee will stand in recess for five minutes. | 4 ' (A brief recess was taken. ) = | Mr. Dodd. At the time that we took the recess, and I | ~ 7 é | responded to a recorded vote, Counsel was proceeding with | 3. ‘ questions,» I would ask counsel to continue with those | : 7 questions. | : 7 | Mr. Goldsmith. Thank you. 2 - = 10 | One question that was out. of the line of my inquiry | = He | that I was making prior to the recess, at the. time that. | i2 | he Oswald reco-ding was obtained, did you or anyone else | eo 13 go to Boris Tarasoff and indicate to him that ‘this was a matter i i¢ | of special importance and needed to be transcribed immedi- 1s ately? Ms. Goodpasture. The first tape with his voice on it, ti cannot remember whether or not I took that to Herb Minell 18 | or whether the outside agent took it to Tarasoff; but it was } t ‘i JNA TT STREET, So. REPORTERS BUTLDENG, UA 9 | taken to. Tarasoff at the same time that it came in from the | 20 | base, | | Be <| ue. Goldsmith. Was Tarasoff given special instructions | © pa a that this particular recording was of unusual importance? | | “ Ms Goodpasture, ‘Ioam quite sure that he was asked | {> 24 to transcribe it immediately. Mr. Goldsmith. Why would he have been asked to. transcribe i 4 HW 40955 . Docld: 32963454 Page 117 ; ALMERSON REPORTING CIMPANY, INC.
1-117 4 | | | | it immediately? 2 | Ms. Gdodpasture.. So they could find out whether there 3 | was any information there under the name Lee Oswald. That +) was the only transcription that he did except for a short 5 one from the Cuban Embassy staff.. a.) | Mr. Goldsmith. The first. conversation that came in i involving Oswald apparently. came. in on September 27, that. 20024 (202) S54-2305 7 i 3 i he was not identified by name in that conversation. 3 $ | Mss Goodpasture. No, that. is right. : r | ‘Mr. Goldsmith. Was that tape taken to Tarasoff? Is : 1 | that the one that he was asked to transcribe “immediately? : 42 Ms.” Goodpasture. The one that he was asked to transcribe © : 13 immediately was the one that: had the name on it. “The one * ; * that was unidentified, it would also have been taken to him g 13 as. soon as it came off of the machine, and he would have been = is asked to transcribe it as soon. as he could. 4 7 Mr. Goldsmith, I am not. sure I follow you why there - : 8 | was a need to transcribe it immediately. - a ; = | Ms. Goodpasture. Pardon me? _ = 20 Mr . Goldsmith, Why was there a need to have him se transeribe ait. immediately? o> ve 22 \ Ms. Goodpasture, The Lee Oswald one? 23 Mr. Goldsmith, Yes. a 2 Ms. Goodpasture. ‘The .conversation was in Russian, or ve) aay Broken Russian, but it. was. in a language that the monitors SHSON SEPORTING COMPANY, INC. y ; 1 t
1-118 inside could not understand. They could not tell if the ro man had a:telephone number there or if he had. an address | 4 ts or if he gave more information in the Russian language than ~his name, oe s. i 3 ac “The only thing they got was his name, which I believe | : : | was in English. 5S 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Even so, why could they not have waited 3 B for the ordinary lag time to ensure prior to the transcrip- | an | tion of the recording? | | g aa Ms. Goodpasture. Wait a minute, We are talking about ' : 7 two different things. The reason that he would have been | oo ; a asked, Tarasoff would have been asked, to transcribe it | @ s | immediately would have been because we had a-name connected | a with it. Most of Tarasoff's transcription work was trans- _cribing Russian to English, but the conversations were with | REPORTERS GU TLDTHG, _ persons. who were in the Embassy, Soviet personnel, and in ! = i | ~ | . 0 | that process he Hhuilt up a backlog, = | So if something came in. that was not. a Soviet or = 19 . ae a oe oe eg ats = an something other than the people who we knew there talking, ” he would have been asked to do that. immediately before the RSS | chit-chat. conversation translations of people who were | oN i living in the Embassy. a il 2304 mo, 7 | Now do you understand what I am talking about?. “Mr. Goldsmith. I. think your explanation is responsive. N “Mr. Dedd, Counsel, one point I should make on the . , “ft Rac == Ag arenes) NYE: a. HW 50955 Docld:32963434 Page 119 ALLERSON REPORTING & PANT. ING
1-119 | | record. I should mention that Mr. Edgar is replacing Mr. ho |. Sawyer here for purpose of this hearing. a 3 _ . Mr. Goldsmith, I. would like, at this point, to refer ~ | to page 6.of.the documents contained in Stack C.. In this a i 3 s regard, can you identify this particular document? 3 | Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, it is a cover sheet that would a 7 i ever a cable in the Mexico station files. S a Mr... Goldsmith. Is this the cover sheet that went. with a / the. cable that was received from headquartes which gave the =z '9.| correct. description of Oswald? = | . S Wy Ms. Goodpasture, Probably on the llth of October, vw { So | eve. * 12 i That is the date stamped here. = il . @ a Mr. Goldsmith. In fact, number s--~ . | vigho Ms; Goodpasture. No, that is not right. The date. % 2.) is stamped there with the date of the message, The day it el | = is i was received was 12 October which was the day that is “  '7 | Beside Scott's name. a. 4 7 . B38 | Mr, Goldsmith. -However, the: routing slip pertains i . | | E. aa to cable number 74830.,. 5 “ '- Ms, Goodpasture. Right. sec | Mr. Goldsmith,. Which. is the one that arrived from NSS , awe ““ || Washington that. gave the description of Oswald, is that » 23 | | | correct? - @ 24 il . . aa a : Ms. Goodpasture. That is correct, ~ Mr. Goldsmith.. Examining this particular document, © | HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 120 ALOE RSOM SESORTING IOWIPANY, INC.
| 1-120 | . | | whose handwriting appears in dark, bold script on the right — | & 2| side, the right side of the page? | | | : 3 | Ms... Goodpasture. The dark print? od > | Mr. Goldsmbth. The: cursive . | 3 5) Ms. Goodpasture. Please set up P file? : if 8 6 | Mr. Goldsmith.’ Yes. | | 5 7 | Ms. Goodpasture,. That is Mr. Scott's. s 3 | Mr. Goldsmith. What is a P file? : co F Ms. Goodpasture. Where? | es = 10 | Mr. Goldsmith. ~What. is a P file? | | : i Ms . Goodpasture. What is one? | = 1g Mr. Goldsmith, Yes. = z i Ms, Goodgpasture. That. is a personality. ‘file on an - ; ‘6 | individual, an investigative file containing all. the informa- | | 13 tion about a name, | | ® i's Mr, Goldsmith.. Is that a file that is maintained at a | | ° 7 | local station? | z 8 Ms Goodpasture; Yes. | a = 13 | ° Mr, Goldsmith. How. does it differ from the file on an | ; = 20 individual that is maintained at headquarters? ~ | 3 : Ms Goodpasture . Tt is not any different at all . Tt. | @ (<< % | is the same type of file. | - 6 Me ; Goldsmith. -In terms of the content of the file, ~ : G 24 would everyting that is in the local file, the P file, be | 23 reflected in the headquarters file on the individual? _ : | HW 50955 Docld: 32463434 Page 121 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
1-121, | | . Ms «: Goodpasture.. Not always. It should be, but some- | sd 2 | times formal communication was sent to headquarters that was | 3 written from several notes, The. formal communication, such | e ; | as the cable, would be in the headquarters files, but if some- 5 : one had taken the information down from the conversation on a 3 é | table napkin, or something, and had. not written a formal | = | memorandum for. the file , the raw data would not be in the | S 8 headquarters file. : 5 | Mr. Goldsmith . How long would it take. to open a P file : fas) i . z (10 | locally? | | : 1 Me. Goodpasture: Depending on the workload, it should a 4 i = 12 not: take longer than a day to take a file folder out of the | eo 5 33 \ ‘cabinet and put the material in and put a label on it. , | : i Mr, Goldsmith. Is it likely that Oswald's P file | = is was open shortly after October 12, 1963? : “ Is | Mss Goodpasture. I. would. assume so, | “ 7 ! Mx. Goldsmith, Examining the statement in cursive | | Z eS By Mr. Scott ; it says, "Please set up P file on Lee Henry | Fa | nd Oswald and put all data that we have into ite’ "ALL" is | =. 26 underscored. | ; Be an De you have any explanation for. why Mr. Scott would | © pa? as | have Bothered to underscore Mall"? ! “3 Ms, Goodpasture, He always did that. | ! © * | . You abways had the feeling that your files were never : 23 \ complete enough, . : HW 30355 DocId: 32263434 Page 127 ALDESRSON SESCRTING COMPANY, INC.
L=122 | a Mx. Goldsmith. Lf you examined another routing slip @ 2 | by Mr. Scott directing that a P file should be opened, he 3) would also, as a matter of routine, have the "all" under- | @ * lined? : 5 2 | ‘Ms Goodpasture, Yes. ! j 2 6 | “Mr. Goldsmith : To your knowledge, do you have any E 7 | information. that any materials that. should have gone in : z | Oswald's ‘Pp file were not put into it? | ad Ms. Goodpasture. Not to my knowledge. Fa z 10 Mr. Goldsmith. “Was Oswald's P file, in fact , Complete? ! = i | Ms. Goodpasture . “I think his file was complete. | S 12 | Mr.Goldsmith, I would ‘Like to refer you to page 7 | te : 13 | at this time of the materials contained in Stack C:and could | | : "4 | you explain to me and. the Congressmen what.the difference ! = '3 is. between this cable which is marked, in the upper right- : = As hand corner, 74830 ‘and the cable that appears on page 3 that ! “ 7 | is also marked. 748302 | : 8 1 | Ms. Goodpasture. ‘Number 3? : EY | | | Mr.. Goldsmith. Page 3. | | = 20 Ms. Goodpasture. The. one on page 7 is a copy of the cea cable when at was. received in Mexico City that was typed up : iD pe * in the Mexico station. “The one on. page 3 is a copy that | : - “3 | was taken from the headquarters file and the way the cable | oO 26 looked when it went out. 1 23 Page 7 is the way it was: received, / You have information
Ll=-123 from:the Mexico file and information from a headquarters file | i sd 2 put together here. | 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. As a matter of routine, who would review + the cable upon receiving it in. Mexico City? ! 3 3 Ms ¢: Goodpasture.. The first.person to get all cable | ; ( - 2 6 traffic was the Chief of Station and the second person to get | = 7 { it was Alan White, The third person to get it was-usually — | S a : the person to.whom it was routed to, that-Mr. Scott wanted i 9 | to see it first, | : 19 Mr. Goldsmith. on page oa this appears. to be Mr. oo ! 3 a ‘Scott's: handwriting in dark, the dark lines,’ and the hand- — | | = 2 writing, | | {> : ‘3 | Ms, Goodpasture.: Winn-Scott's? = is | : Mr. Goldsmith. . Drawing your attention to the arrow. . | c 13 1 that appears on the upper ‘lefthand corner of this document, | = i = 16 the arrow.goes from Henry. upwards. Do you see that?. : “47 | | Ms. Goodpasture. “Yes ; : STREET, 8 Mr. Goldsmith. To the right of that appears the word 300 7H Ms. . Goodpasture, Right.: See Mr,. Goldsmith. Underscored.. “Ms, Goodpasture, Well, he put "sic" there because he | © | Canvyousexplain that? _ wanted a Heading on the P file =~ this: goes: back to the P | £ile <= he wanted the P file to be written Lee Oswald, the. | a HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 124 _ ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
1-124 | | title on it, also known as Lee Henry Oswald. That is what ® 2 ! the "sic® designates, that it could be two names. _ | ; Mr. Goldsmith. Tf that were the case, would not. the ® + ) appropriate way to indicate that be by writing down "aka" | z 5 | instead of. "sick m | é 6 | . Ms ’ Goodpasture. "Aka" was also used, | g 7 | My «. Goldsmith. In fact, my impression is that the | S 3 term." sith is. used. as a matter of routine in the English : $ ! language to designate that,the item that is referred to is 2 10 | “erroneous ,. | | 2 ry 7 Ms » Goodpasture . I do not think. he meant it in those | : - 12 | terms ¢ “I think he wanted both. names to be on the file. He | Gc ; 13. is another world now .and-there is no way of finding outs | : : ° Mx. Goldsmith, Understood. | | : 13 In fact, the "sic" ‘points right to the Henry and in : = Is . fact Oswald's. real name was Harvey not Henry is that correct? aay | Ms; Goodpasture.. Right,’ | | 8 | Mr. Goldsmith. Did Winn Scott know that. Oswald's. middle . If | name was Harvey and not Henry? 3nA ITH STREET, Ms ,Goodpasture, Not to my knowledge. We had no. record pore | of it at the Mexico station. We had no trace on anyone by © pe Oswald.: 2 Mr. Goldsmith, That is exactly right. It isan impor- . © 4" | tant. question, | “| Ms, Goodpasture, Right, WW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 125 ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
bo CT) a | 20024 (202) S54-2445 3 it | at oma ~ \ < | * i = to 4 S i a3 Hy S if = Hl mee i = 4 bh dl — 5 4 ~ 12 . i ae 4 ng 13! = i i i = tao fee 1 . on € i! i I ™ tg | . t = , = n V7 | < 2. 18 = . wt = =| e IF ~ i e | = a i ! at I =! ie 7 = i G a aa: BSS ae 4 | aye | Ae | 5 nh Thatcis why, I think, that he must have wanted it so | . that the file would show Lee Oswald and also Lee Henry Oswald, | _itowas standard procedure for Mr.“Scott to indicate that a file 1-125 Mr, Goldsmith. If the Committee wanted to verify whether should be opened under more. than one name, for him to indi- cate. that by writing down the word "sicy" I presume that all ‘we would have to do is to review cable traffic or routing sheets to see if. that was a matter of routine, he used that | | terminology, "sic" is that. not correct? | “Ms. Goodpasture. ~You. could if you wanted. “vr. Goldsmith. If, in fact, it turned out that as a | “matter of routine he did not use the terminology "sic" ta. | refer to the opening of a file under more than one name, that | Might indicate, would it not., that Scott was aware of oswald's ; true middle name?_ | | Ms, Goodpasture,.. I would not go so far as to suggest | that. You could assume ‘that you thought that he knew, but if he knew it,.we certainly had no record of it to my knowledge at the Mexico station.. Mr.. Doda, Let me step in here for a second, | ; . . Ms, Goodpasture. I do not think he knew it. Mx, Dodd. Let me ask you something, matam; What does "sic® mean to you, s-i-c? — Ms, Goodpasture,. I was just saying that, the way it is i HW 50955 Docld:32263434° Page 126 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
1-126 dp 2 | Mr. Dodd. What does "sic" mean to you? | 3 Ms. Goodpasture . A garbled version of a name. . i. oo Sj Ms... Goodp asture,. No. | 5 4 | Mr. Dodd. There is a distinction between an aka and a. | - - | a | sic? _ . | | | S Z| Ms, Goodpasture. Yes. S 9 Mee, pedd, Are you telling this: committee that it is: | : ol your personal knowledge == Z 1 | . Ms 6 Goodpasture, I am saying, six, that I think that. — i2 | what he meant was that Lee Oswald, because the first conyersa~ > : 12. tion. we heard: =< ie | | Z 14 Mr. Dodd. 'T understand, Let me. repeat what I think | | e: i a - E 1;.| you are saying, Correct me if I. am wrong, | ; Ie - What: you are telling us is that you have personal | 4 17 | knowledge that the individual that made that notation there, | : 8 | sic, asa result of your personal knowledge of this individual, F 1S , he used those. words interchangeably all. the time, even though. | 5 20 | you know that those two words have different meanings, ore | cee | chose symbole have different meanings? Go law #3 / Ms, Goodpasture. That is not. what x mean to say. | | 3 Mr. Dodd. The record indicates: that you had Some sort. | a 28 ef special knowledge that this: individual used those symbols | i interchangeably, | on, wr mens meaner COMBANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 127 ALODERSON REPORTING COMPANY, |
= 4 t ' 2 I . 7 | = jl w i t a , | wt & i i on ~ it a > | = 7 oe Z| ao ‘ = j ™. | : | . : a i 2 100 a 4 x i g = } i Saal u = il w) { s j , ” tae i » we - . i . = il = 34h . = 2: _ a wes 4 = i e trys ii v, : v a ne 4 = an = a 2: i = se t . I * t Fl | x | x Tk i a IF : € HT o * i i | at well “ ean ae a . i : uw | ‘ © | am it i a ae i i it t G y uy { HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 128 —  ALDERSON 1-127 Ms. Goodpasture. In the context of the way the name “Lee Oswald came to our attention thé first time, it was in such. a way that we could not tell the man was saying his name was Lee and Oswald, or whether his name was. Lee Oswald. “Mr. Dodd, What notation was made in that reference in the cable traffic when the. transcripts -- what notation is in parentheses? Ms, Gooapasture. Pardon me? Mr. podd. What notation was in parentheses in the transcripts of the telephone conversations? ‘Does. the word phonetic, does that strike a bell-in parentheses, phonetic? Ms. Goodpasture, ‘Phonetic, Lee Oswald. When the transcript. was first brought to me, the man 4 outside, .as I recall, said they do not know if this man is Lee or whether it is Oswald, Mr, Dodd. Lf théy- indicated they did not understand, what did they put in parentheses? — 7: | MS. Goodpasturé. Before the action was taken on the transcript, was taker to the transeriher who prepared an English translation.and on the basis. of his. English trans- lation they feltthat, the person who prepared the cable © 22 | felt, that thé name was Lee Oswald, Mr. Dedd, Did they not put phonetic? Ms.. Goodpasture, They put phonetic, Mr, Dodd. They did not put sic? REZORTING COMPANY. INC.
ul Ms. Goodpasture.. Meaning that they. did not. ‘know whether 2 | it was spelled Ozwald or Oswald, I guess. But I cannot be | 2 sure, but. the person who prepared the cable is here, Barbara i 1) Minell. she might know. | ! Es sf Mr. Dodd. “Counsel and witness, I am going to have to | : s| apologize to you one more time. This is one of the burdens gS ‘| of this institution. We have a recorded vote again. We will! : os come right Back. : a A brief recess was taken.) _ | | : 1a . Mx. Dodd. Picking: up where we left off at the time we | : 1) | took that recess, I do not want to belabor this point with | = 3: | you. How well did you kriow Mr, Scott? z nS - Ms. Goodpasture.. I did not make myself clear. What. | z | I meant when I answered his question, I thought, I think, | si i | 1s | that this refers to the fact that the first Lee Oswald that 3 = i | . tS we had was. garbled, 4 7 | Mx. Goldsmith. Where. was that? What are you talking | : sf about, on the transcripts or the conversation? | é i _ ) : 13 | : Mss Goodpasture. | “Prom the transcripts, yes, sir, : & ale And we had never seen the name: printed and that'T thought _— —— | he meant that this Léee Henry Oswald file sHould have in it. | i all the information that. we Had en the man with the name, - | 23 | the garbled name, the Lee Oswald that had come up in the : H . . | 24 transcripts. 2 ' That was just. my interpretation, I do not know, to : | : pocta:32963434 Page i129 ALDERSONM REPCRATING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 1-128
1-129 answer the question truthfully. [ sd 2 | Mr, Doddj: ©... Let us go back a little bit and, counsel, ae: will ask you to assist me on this, but in all of the trans~ | ‘ | cripts ,; was. there. any middle. name or middle initial mentioned? 5 siz do not recall seeing any. | - i 3 ‘| Mr. Goldsmith. No, there was not. = 7 Mx. Dodd. ‘That. does not explain the letter or the S 3 language "sic" by Henry, because they had never been any ; | reference to a Henry or a Harvey. . : | : io Ms. Goodpasture. “That Henry, I think that was the . | : 7 | headquarters mistake. This. cable originated in headquarters | 3 12 | that we are looking at and this isa copy of it ‘as it was - . o E 13 received in Mexico, | : is ' The first time that we received the name ‘on Oswald and | E 1S the traces it was Lee Henry, and it was, later that it became | : i) Lee Harvey. : 4 7 Mx. Dodd. ‘We ‘are getting away from my point. Tf it | : a] were a question about using a different’ name as you have > | E Zz properly described Aka, also known as, is the proper letter 2 "| to use in that kind of situation where a sic, as\you have | properly. defined it, descrihes an entirely different | gituation,s ° Ms. Geodpasture. Right. Mr.. Dodd. My: next question is, how well did you know : Mr. Scott? — Didyou know: him well? HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 130 — ALOERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
N.C, 2902" (202) 45-2445 , HASUTEGTON HEL ED TG REPO P RE Mt JME, cog a 3H0 PtH STREET, nm ta ase sa dite. , Yi 240 ta ho wy te oO - } Ms. Goodpasture. I worked there for 1l.years when he was there, | Mr, Dodd, “You.knew him fairly well. Ms ,Goodpasture. Let me answer it-.this way. I do not think I knew him well enough to be ‘able to say bevond any reasonable doubt what he-meant here by this term. “Mr, Dodd. Were you familiar. with his annotations on. other cable traffic? Ms. Goodpasture. Well, yes, I think I probably was — more. faniliar than anybody else who was down there at that ‘time because I was down there longer, Mr. Dodd. Did you ever notice that he used these _ symbols interchangeably in other cable traffic? Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, I think he would use it. I have seen him write sic in for. a garbled name by the side of it. One garbled version put in. for the information on a file traced with another name. Mr. Dodd. Thank you, I turn questioning over to. counsel. | | Mr. Goldsmith, Referring to page Sof Stack. C , Scott . indicates that a P file should be opened. on hee Henry Oswald does he not? Ms, Goodpasture. Yes. Mr.. Goldsmith, He. does not indicate that a file should "be opened under. Lee Oswald and Lee Henry Oswald, does he? | . uy RLOESERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:322763434 Page i131 ALDERSSMN REPORTING Got
Fre ae As eet Les fe HW 50955 Bocld: 32963434 Page 132 i 300 7TH STREET, SoU. REPOUPERS BULLDENG, VASHTUCTOH, OH.) 20024 (202) S5H-2945 be nd isn ie 8) a ha . sed - a aaa =: was an "aka" is there? There is no basis for reaching that 1-131 In other words, he does not. indicate the file should be opened up under two names? | Ms. Goodpasture, Right. Mr. Goldsmith... “So really there is no basis at all for thinking that the. term "sic" indiaates what Scott had in mind conélusion, is there? — | Ms. Goodpasture. Would you repeat. that again? _ Mr, Goldsmith, Certainly. ‘It is apparent from the routing indication on page 6 that Scott wanted the file opened on Lee Henry Oswald. Ms. Coodpasture.’ Right. Mr. Goldsmith. He gave no indication on the routing slip that he wanted the file open up:under the name Lee Henry | was. to be opened up under. two names. In light of that, there. is really no Basis, is: there, for concluding that the use of the phrase. sic on page 7 refers to the term aka? | Ms. Goodpasture.. My interpretation that the use of the word sic was for the Lee Oswald, the first name.in there on page 7 and that. all of the information about that name that. we did not Know the. full name on would go into. the other file, | Mr. Goldsmith, The "sic" is. pointing to the word "Henry" is it not? ALOSRSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Oswald akd Lee Oswald. There is no indication that the file
1-132 | Ms « Goodpasture. I feel that refers to the first | 7 Lee Oswald in place of Lee Henry Oswald, the first line. we | a could argue that. “a . 4 Mr. Goldsmith. Is not the arrow: pointec right over “f 3] and in between the "e™ and "nf" in the word "Henry"? | a s| Ms y _ Goodpasture. That: is right, but. it is also. pointing g 7 right to the beginning of the Lee Oswald name. § | -To answer your question, I do not know. | : : Mr. Goldsmith. In any event, "sic". does not. mean "aka" 2 10) does it? - z ny Ms. Goodpasture, That. is right. “3 a . . = a Mr, Goldsmith. Mr. Scott did not use those terms » > - 13 interchangeably, did he? | | : 7 -Ms, Goodpasture, Did he -~. oe | : if Mr. Goldsmith. Use the term "sic",ss-i=c, and the. | ; 18 term "aka" interchangeably? — He did not : as a matter of | v7 ‘custom, do that, did he? | 2 S| Ms. Goodpasture. I. do not recall having seen him use | z | aka that. much ‘at all. 2 have. seen sic several times. after a : s | name when there was. no middle initial or where there. was | ; ool question about spelling. | | | . co ve aa Mr. Goldsmith. I do not believe that. the answer. was. | 23 responsive. Do you know whether he used thé term "sic" and. | aa “e naka" interchangeably? ! 78 ' Ms  Goodpasture. ‘No, I do not know, | i i 7 SERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. | HW 50955  Docld:32263434 Page 133 —
1-133 ! | . Mr. Goldsmith. You testified earlier, I believe, that ® 2 | upon. . receipt of this cable, the Tarasoffs, or ‘Boris Tarasoff, | at made a voice comparison. Is. that correct? ® * : Ms. Goodpasture . That -- Mr. Goldsmith. “Your testimony earlier, I believe, was ua that upon receipt of this cable from headquarters, Boris — Tarasoff made a voice comparison of the tape recordings? ~~ oo. 2NO2H (202) $54+2345 Ms;:; Goodpasture, That is right. wb Mr. Goldsmith, And they concluded --— on dD Ms. Goodpasture. - At- some time after receipt of this cable,-according to receipt of that note, I. do not know BASHING TON | 12 | when. Mr. Goldsmith, He concluded that it was the same person on both tapes, is that correct? | Ms. Goodpasture.. That is right.. REEORTERS TUTE ONG , » Mr.. Goldsmith. I would like you to refer now to page §.4M. 21 in Stack. C, page 21. Ms. Goodpasture.. One moment,. “= - “Mr. Goldsmith. We will make ‘that page 22. Can you 3nO 7TH STREET, identify this: document? “Ms, Goodpasture. ves, This is a copy of a cable that. was sent from headquarters to Washington. | : Mr, .Goldsmith, Who-was the originating officer of this | . Cable? “Ms, Goodpasture,. I am. RSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 134 ak
1-134 i ~ Mr.. Goldsmith. Who was the authenticating officer of 2 | this. cable? : Ms. Goodpasture. I am. = $ | Mr. Goldsmith. What. is your understanding of the term 5 | "authenticating officer"?. What does that term mean? 2 a | Ms. Goodpasture. “Someone who has the authority to sign & 7 | scale, to release it. : 7 “Mr, Goldsmith. ‘Would an authenticating officer simply 8 ‘ sign a cable ‘and release it, or is. there anything that he. a . z (0 would do before ‘signing? 2 i Ms. Coodpasture, The releasing. officer was a superior a i ‘ .& H 7 . : o> £ 13 b Mr, Goldsmith. “It would be the responsibility of the : 14 authenticating officer, would it not, to verify the accuracy : is | of the contents of the cable? Is that. correct? _ 2 1S | | Ms.) Goadpasture. Yes, that would be his responsibility. 3 ; Mr. Goldsmith. - Drawing your attention to the bottom of : '8 | page 22, please read the second paragraph. It continues on vi | 1 ES | bo page. 23, an Ms Goodpasture, ‘Yes. Ee PLB ‘Mr. Goldsmith, Specifically, this seems to indicate 3 phat the station is unable to. compare the. voice of the first a * tape, which was erased pror to the receipt of the second call? 23 [Is that true? Is that. what the document indicates? | i HW 50955 DocId: ; ALDERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 32263434 Page 135
! OS oe 1-135. e | | Ms. Goodpasture. Right. | 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you have any. explanation for the 3 | |. inconsistency. between this document and.your earlier testimony; o | J that there. was a voice comparison made? —_ de : ; | Ms. Goodpasture.» ‘The only explanation that I. can. make | é | is. that the Soviet transcriber made it on the basis of not z 7 | listening. to the two tapes again over, but..on his memory of | Z 3 | yes, that is the same man that I listened to and transcribed | | ) : , ie tape from the Soviet Embassy, the man who called himself | 3 0 Lee Oswald, | | | : os | : u Mr. Dodd, Counsel, I. do not want to interrupt you. ! - 2 | Mrs. Goodpasture, you worked a long time in that. Embassy, : | ae g 13 you are very familiar with. ‘technical terms and terminology | : aan | that are used, | : 2 i : : | Now,. when you are doing a voice comparison. and what . | ; is | all of that means ; a voice comparison, that is a rather | “ " technical deséription of. something ; and you just stated 4 : 8 minute ago that ‘a voice. comparison was made, ‘Iv would. assume eae | by that that you are telling this Committee == and we are | = % : grateful that you are here , we ‘appreciate your testimony, cee We haye a very difficult job in front of us. We are txying ae lad = to get to the bottom of this whole story, and you. are making | se aitetcut, 7 : © * I do-not like to-have to tell you that, but you are. you ~ are using the term “yoice comparison" and you are indicating ! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. “HW 50955 DocId:32263434 Page 136
1-136 1 | .te this committee that there was. analysis made of a person's @ oo | voice, not the meriory of a transcriber. It is a technical jon. | 3 | It is not-something that. you leave to somebody who is merely cc 4 | a translator, and you just finished telling us. that a voice | =F 3 comparison was made. Your own memorandum there on page 21 | & 7 says that, in fact, one could not. have been made. — | fy i | What is the truth. here? | | : ; x : . Ms. Goodpasture. I think that what happened was that | - | the voice comparison, by taking the two tapes, I think. the 7 : io tape had been destroyed, . | S yo a ny Based. on my memory now = : : 12 Mr .. Dodd, ‘What you just said a minute ago == _ a =. 13 Ms: Goodpasture,. To tell you the truth, I do not. | | 5 4 | remember. | : a Mr. Dodd. ‘What.you just said a moment ago is not | E 3 | true, then, that there is not a voice comparison? | “47 Ms, Goodpasture, “What I said a moment ago was based on. | a-note that. had. been made in the files, that the transcriber | 1F | nadctcomparea the voices, and this note was written 14 years |- Jan 7TH STREET, 5 \ i | oo | a ~ . SE a Mr.. Dodd, Based upon your. working Knowledge of the & pe 22 i terminology of voice comparison, does that normally involve i 23 listening to. two tapes with someone who is technically tzained! i 34 to make a determination as to whether or not the voices on two 25.) different tapes are one and the. same Berson? i a 4 -- ALBERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 137
; _ 1-137 Ms, Goodpasture. The way it was used, to me it would. also mean that a person who had listened to two tapes at > | different times and said that they were the same, that it @ ; | would be a comparison by him. | A | = 3 | Mx Dodd. That was considered aubona fide..voice — 38 | comparison? & 7 Ms:., Goodpasture, Not in the technical sense that you S 8 | are. referring to. You are correct. o 9 | Mr. podd. Counsel, you may proceed. I am awfully a z {9 i. confused about: your statement... : i. Ms. Goodpasture, ‘I apologize for that. It-is a con- . 2 | fusion tome of so much. materfal at one time, going over it @ : in and the details of its But I honestly. do not. remember being : 4 present when those. tapes: were listened to, or a conversation | : I 2 relating to ite “It. was this material that came up.in the - . ! Mr.,.Dodd,. You understand, when you are talking gout . z 8 i voices being compaxes', you are comparing a tape of someone > | = iF | speaking, | E20 | Ms, Goodpasture:. Right. : oe | Mr. Dodd, You cannot make .a comparison. based on a a yy transcript or someone's memory of a tape that had. been 4 | ° destxoyed, by your own testimony. o> * i Ms. Goodpasture. JA better way to explain it would have - —— "| Been, probably, if this occurred, would have been to have — # ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 138
1-138 said that the transcriber who listened to both tapes said iM) ~ _ that it was the same person rather than using the term dad te "voice comparison." Mr. Dodd, You sent out this memo. Let me refer you. $ to page 67. 2 4 | Ms. Goodpasture, Yes, sir. = 7 | Mr. Dodd. Stack. c. S | I .amolooking. at: thisoonewz estory.: here. oo0y | gc 3 Can I ask you, is that your handwriting on the bottom there? z ‘0 | You see the documentation? : i Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, sir. = V2 . Mr. Dodd, ' Whose handwriting is that? a = 13 | > Ms. Goodpasture. © It is mine. 3 14 Mr, Dodd. “ Read that for me. I can't read your hand- * ' g 13 writing too well. What does that say? . Is Ms. Goodpasture, It says the caller from the Cuban “ 7.1 Embassy was unidentified until Headquarters sent traces on : ‘31 ogwald and voices compared by Findglass who is the Soviet . E '' | translator. S * : Mr. Dodd.- When did you make that annotation? Ee | Ms. Goodpasture. When? Go yt - Mr, Dodd. Yes. a2) | - Ms. Goodpasture.. I do not know. n> Bm Mr. Dodd. Approximately? ha hey Ms .. Goodpasture, I would assume we made it some time. é GERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 DocId:32263434.. Page 139 ALEERSO! 3 Comes
| aan 7 STREET, So REPORTERS BUTEDING, VASHLHC TON, D.C. 2HN2" €202) 896-2945 1-139 7 een article had come out? 3 i Ms. Goodpasture. I will tell you -- 5 | _Mr, Dodd. . Unfortunately, we are going to have to 10 | break again for another vote and I am going to come back. ( | i . Mo again in five minutes. In that five minutes, I want you to | think very hard about when you made that annotation. I am 13 | going to ask you to give me an answer to that.. ie | I do not want to have to remind you here that you are 1s | sworn to tell the whole truth.to this Committee and it is i . fog . 14 | vitally important. Aad. . Ms, Goodpasture, .That is what I have been trying to 18 | do. is | Mr, Dodd. This is a very important matter, We will 20 || take a recess and come back in five minutes and I would like - 21) you. to think about it. during those five minutes, and then I. © pe ac ‘ would like you to give me. your best answer to that question i just asked you.. r J a We will stand in recess. . HW 50955 Docld: iH | ; (A brief recess was taken.) { . . | . i i oo LERSON RESORTING COMPANY. INC. 322963434 Page 140 ALDERSO! fo) 5 COMPANY. | after the date of this article. To answer your question 2 | truthfully, I do not know. 3 | Mr, Dodd. Was it ten years ago, a year ago? | / Ms. Goodpasture,. ‘The date-on this article was 21 october 5 1964, | | of Mr. Dodd. Would you have done it right at the time that! |
oy 1-140 | | ; . | tt Mr.. Dodd... Picking up, Mrs. Goodpasture, where we left | | + || off at the time of the last break and you have had a few | 3 minutes to think over my question, I do not want you to think 2 > | for one second that I am particularly being tough in any 7 3 : way. It is just that these are very, very important ques- ’ if . 3 ‘| tions and I would like you to answer: you as honestly and as = ") candidly as you can as to when you think you made that | S 2 | notation. o 7 || MS. Goodpasture.. I think that I made the notation within i i = 10 about a week or ten days after the date of the newspaper | = on article, because this was a Washington article and it would , a 7 . 7 | nave been sent to us in Mexico through a pouch, | si zi 3 Mr. Do@d. 1964? : ‘4 1 ‘Ms. Goodpasture. I think it would have been some tine | P 13 towards the end of October, 1964. = is | Mr, Dodd, Did I understand you correctly to respond | y '7 || to counsel's question, turning to page 22, that you were | | - E ‘8 ie releasing officer, authenticating officer -- which. was it | a = = ‘ol on. that memo? Did I hear your response to that correctly? / = 2 | Mr. Goldsmith, Were you the authenticating officer of i | S27 22 | © oN | Ms. Goodpasture, Yes, | a Mr. Dodd. You were the authenticating officer for 4 5 | 7 bo tn | | 24 | (> | that memo? a ! Ms, Goodpasture, Cable, = i ALQERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. - - BW 50955 Docld:32963434. Page 141
_ 1-141 Mr. Dodd. Cable dated 23 November 1963? 3 Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, sir. oe] Mr. Dodd. I. read to you again paragraph 2. "In view be | Oswald Soviet. Union. In: fact, he claimed on 1 October, the ase envoy" -- whatever that is -~ "to have visited the Soviet sl Embassy 28 September, ‘Subject paragraph 1 probably Oswald. y | Station unable to compare voice as first tape erased prior “| second ean. # | . 9 That is November, 1363 and in October of '64, "Voices 10 : compared by Findglass." -Which is true? | 1 Ms. Goodpasture, The notation was made in 1964 on this | newspaper article. I think that I was referring to the trans-| cc 13: : criber, Mr. Tarasoff's, identifying the man as having made | i . . | 14 | both calls in listening to. the tapes. | | 1s | Mr... Dodd, Why did you not make that same observation — On am SS LS Se ee on 23 November 1963? | | Ms, Goodpasture, .That was a mistake I made that I should oO ‘| 300 7TH STREET, SU REPORTERS BUTLD ING, WASHINGTON, H.C, 20024 (202) S5u-2345 Ret have made, I should have stated it exactly as it occurred | 13. || so we would not be in doubt now. But I do not know. | | ' Mrs Dodd. So the statement made on 23. November '63 is. 21 | inaccurate? oO | - Oi f Ms. Goodpasture. To the best of my knowledge, it is. | , L am-sure I could not locate the tapes, or I would not have. 24 l put that in the cable, eel) Alls es and rd 23 Mr.DDodd. Thank you. . | i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 142
ago and spoke broken Russian, that it was apparent that Oswald) | OO | | 1-142 an Counsel, you may proceed.» | oS . | ced | Mr. Goldsmith, Thank you, | | 3 , In this regard, I would like to refer to Stack B, the | ; document, page 1 in Stack B, which is the transcript oftthe Es : | conversation in reference to Oswald. That is. Stack B, page i 4 i ; 3 7 1.. This is a transcription of a conversation. involving g "| Oswald that. took place on 1 October 1963. & gf By the line which immediately follows the number 151 S . : ie brackets it says "the same person who phoned a day or so : a | ago and spoke in broken Russian." | : np Viewing this language in connection with page 67 of = iH - , 2 12 Stack C, that is the newspaper article that we were just i: Z 13 | teferring to == . | = id Ms . Goodpasture.. 67. : | Mr, Goldsmith. Page 67, the newspaper article that ! = 13 | we were just referring to. I direct your attention to the | 4 7 last paragraph of that article, the one that is marked off, | a 8 | specifically the one that is adjacent. to your marginal nota~ . = ‘0 | Would you please read that? | | cee Ms. Goodpasture.,. Yes. : | ae | fe 22 | _ Mr. Goldsmith.— Might it not be said that, viewing these. 3) two items together, the language in. this paragraph and the ! ¢ % |- statement in brackets, the same person who phoned a day or so | : i i i 4 “fh 4 i | ‘ ALEERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32263434 Page 143