? .13 November 1975 MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD SUBJECT: Meeting of Mr. Rocca with Members of the -Senate Select Committee Staff i. On the morning of November 11, 1975, Mr. Rocca met, at the request of the Senate Select Committee, with members of. the Staff of the SS Committee. Spec- ifically Mr. Paul Wallach, Staff Counsel and two assistants Messrs - Grissom handled the - -questioning. Mr. f the CI Staff attended as an observer. . — om) 2. Mr. Wallach asked Mr. Rocca if he were aware of _ the existance of a 201 file on Lee Harvey Oswald: prior to the assassination of President Kennedy on November 22, 1963. Mr. Rocca advised that he was unaware of the file until the Monday after the event. Under questioning Mr. Rocca went on to say that to the best of his knowledge there were only five documents actually in the 201 file and were of an interagency nature. He suggested Mr. Hartman be queried on this point. Further, Mr. Rocca’ went on to say that there was appare y an error in the original file opening of Oswald's 201. which was under the name of Lee Henry Osawald and not Lee Harvey Oswald, but this was a human error which did not deter the investigation. In response to why the Agency was not involved in the investigation of Oswald in the pre- assassination period, Mr. Rocca stated that there existed guide lines under the Delimitation Agreement with regard to military defectors which limited jurigdiction of these cases to the FBI and to the responsible military arm.. E2IMPDET CL BY 008885 } “| caf 4 rm gaat: 08}
13-00000:.... | . ee a nets se tees RAE ae ns A ae tment ea TG Le nbnae ARTE UA OH apd (lad ETA SIR aia ae an cont womens ets TE SS on ° @ . . In this instance it was the Navy and the FBI to the exclusion of CIA. When Mr. Wallach alluded to allegations that Oswald may have been an agent of CIA or was sent to the USSR with instructions to, defect, Mr. Rocca made a strong point that Oswald was never a CIA agent nor to his knowledge was an American citizen ever asked to defect to the USSR, although there have been many Soviets who were sent by Russian intelligence as defectors to the West. 3. Mr. Wallach expressed interest in reviewing the chronology of Oswald's activities prior to the assassination and at what point in time did Mr. Rocca become involved. Mr. Rocca explained that during the period of 23 November 1963 through mid—- . January 1964 action responsibility for the investigation rested with WH Division. After that he became involved. He referred to it as the GPFLOOR Phase. During this period Messrs. J.C. King, C/WH and @ack Witten, )26 .. C/WH/Mexico City Desk were the two Washington level officers in charge. Mr. Win Scott, who was COS Mexico City, was responsible in Mexico. Mr. Dave Phillips, - who was Stationed in Mexico was also knowledgeable. | In Washington @itten who had oversight of GPFLOOR dealt directly with Mr. Helms, who presumably kept Mr. McCone advised. Mr. Rocca then recounted Oswald's Military career and Oswald apparent contacts with the Cubans while he was in the Marines. At this point Mr. Rocca made a point that there are gaps in the infor- mation provided by both Soviet and Cuban Governments to the Warren Commission and these gaps were, in his words, “relevent and open." Mr. Rocca stated Oswald's con- tacts with both the Cubans and Soviets should be investigated. He related how Oswald went to Finland | then to the USSR, how he was handled by Rima Shirakova . a Inturist Guide who he said was in fact sa KGB agent. Mr. Rocca suggested that Oswald's attempted suicide was part of a scenario to "allow Oswald to remain in Moscow 2 Qergocr efits
i i i i 3 i oe SR a Ble on bowls ed tea Se CO a ; “SCONLT ed by a reluctant government to permit further assessing." His handling in the Soviet Union, his resettlement in Minsk, the fact he was allowed to marry Marina, whose uncle was in the MVD, etc. were areas which Mr. Rocca's comments were that there are areas. which the Warren Commission did not fully investigate and which, in retrospect, suggested to him that the question that Oswald may have been under KGB control was never re- solved. 4. At this’ ‘point in the interview the questioning turned to assassination plots against Castro. Mr. Wallach asked Mr. Rocca if he participated in any such plots or if he was aware of any. Mr. Rocca gave a negative response then regaled the group about the _ . international political atmosphere at the time, ‘recounting President Kennedy's meeting with Khruschev in Vienna, the Soviet build up in Cuba, the Missile crises, Castro's long visit to Cuba in 1963 which led. to greater assistance by the KGB to the Cuban DGI, and finally the fact that Castro held a press conference | ‘at the Brazilian Embassy in Havana which was clearly according to Mr. Rocca a warning to the U.S.. that any attempts on Cuban leaders, i.e. Castro, would be met in kind. Mr. Rocca referred to Des Fitzgerald's trip to Paris to recruit AMLASH for the purposes of overthrowing Castro, Fitzgerald's close contacts with the Kennedy family and fact he replaced Bill Harvey in the Special Project to assassinate Castro. (One of the Staffers referred to it as Task Force W.) Mr. Rocca then com- mented on Operation MONGOOSE which he said Bobby Kennedy was running with McNamara and which involved Mr. Fitzgerald. The meeting broke at this point. Next _ Meeting to be on the morning of November 13, 1975. 5. Incidental items which arose. At one point Mr. Rocca made reference to a debriefing of a@ Soviet defector Golitzin. Mr. Wallach asked if this was refuted by Nosenko. Mr. Rocca advised he was not
oud cleared for Nosenko at that time hence could not comment. Mr. Wallach asked for the report on the debriefing of Golitzin related to KGB assassinations. At various times Mr. Rocca deferred questions to people most knowledgeable on given aspects. These are: Messrs. Murphy, C/SB, Bagley, DC/SB, Wigren, SB Research and Miss Virginia Valpey re analysis on Oswald's stay in USSR, Soviet methods etc.; Miss Betty Egerter fox file procedures; Messrs. Wack ra Witten)and Dave Philips re Mexico City investigation; Mr. Len McCoy re dissemination of SB reports; Mr. Kim Chalmer re HTLINGUAL; and a Mr. Bruce Solie re office” of Security files and investigations. 6. A final point. Mr. Rocca in furtherance of. - his theories suggesting possible Soviet and/or Cuban complicity in the Kennedy Assassination, provided two documents from the files to Mr. Wallach. ,2The latter graceously gave the documents to Mr. witha... request they be reproduced prior to @ néxt meeting as he may submit a document request for them at a i later date. Copies of the documents in question are | attached. Robert Wall AC/CI/OG Attachments - . : Distribution: _ voérig & 1 - AC/CI (to be held for C/CI) i 1 - CI/0G/SO o 4 . ty | weet | _