I took 3 . fl e A 7 ¢ |: Hn fF 4 | detail, H 6 i 5 7 . | 9 . ; LU | Q | Li ii e ; | o " t A & i 3 14 15 i ee 16 {I aan 9 | * 12 | 0 a V9 i g £0 | ; | Q 6 a. | el A 3 “| 9 ud i{ @ “ 23 | ° HY 50955 DBocld: 322703 S51 Page 6 i your employment with the Agency? When I first came in I was in the Intelligence Directorate for aporoximately ten years and I was put on specia Special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Plan il which is now the Directorate of Operations. What year were you put on that detail? I guess it was 1964, January, I believe. And what did that detail involve? Cuban operations, economic warfare. And how long were you on that detail? I was in the Cuban operations for nine years. Between 1964 and 1973? (Nods in affirmative.) And in 1973 did you assume your current position? Yes, January. Now, while you were on special detail -~ to the bon? Yes. Were you stationed in Washington? Yes. And did you commute with some frequency to ‘tiami? Yes. Were your activities in Miami in any way connected with the operations of the Miami Station? In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide. temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miari. CECDET t i 1 | | j { ro ?
@ SECRET | Q What years was he Chief? [| was there about a year and a half. He | 4 4 ! tf | 8 , i | oS i : “ Most of my operations were run out of Europe. | & i Q Run out of =-- | é i 2 | A Europe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones | fo) A é Qos , were run out of Europe. | “ ‘ Q ‘Well, in the course of your activities with respect i - to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the 7 4 \ ey | Ht operations of the Miami base? | ie , 8 A Yes. | | 1 : 9 | Q And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami? | at ~ 14 I “i A Yes, sir. | | qe 1 Q During the nine years you were with DDO's Cuban | | 3 le operations, who was ~- who were the chiefs of the Miami | < : a 1 .- 1s Ff Station? E a , z 14 i : A I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he 25 was followed by ~-- I can't think of his name. I should know { . . 16) it. Well, I will come back to that. . | i? 4 Then, the next Chief of Station was| y | ie “ iv A 2 i | { Q ay ( left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's : £1 —— was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterlin : ae 4 He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973. uj ; . : £0 Q Now, what was the formal title of the group to which : c4 | you were assigned for the 9-year period? eo | A Well, when I first came in it was known as the HW 50955 DocId:32203451 Page 7 | GECMET
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 en > fen) a a 3 ¢ a F 13 o: « < z 14 5 14 17 | 17 | I “ 19 | o 1 3 « | a i 6 O71 & et z i 5 5! 3 22 wi = 29 e  * aA ij z e+ | 2 s ao | | SECRET Special Activities Staff. it was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald. And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations Group. Q Now, was this a soecial group within the DDO or was it attached to one of the area divisions? A No. Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing-: called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And that -~- when Harvey left, fae WETICE OE @ene{ Fitzgerald took over, it became Special Activities Staff. It wasn't attached to anytning except -- it reported to the Deputy Director, Plans. Q And that was Mr. Karamessines? A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it. was first created. Helms was DDP at that time. Q And Task Force W was created immediately after the Bay of Pigs? A Well, not immediately. I think sometime around -- in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in September, something like that, 1961. Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities Staff? A special Activities Staff and conseauently became the Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went back into the Western Hemisphere Division. Q And what was the date of that reorganization? HW 50955 | nooxa:anz004ss Page 8 SECRET
° Q e a © t - 4 ~ be 2 ; z : wd aa ~ ao N pea it a i = “i 2 4 < i ¢ 2 ae a Ge hi i! Gi 7 [ i t QF i ° i . count eae i li i tt ye a 4 12 | 3 i ¢ a | 3 13 | o- | & ! < TA z Ae oy 1 | yeh 19 fl i it 16) iH ate i ao ff H hh HT 13 | | i a : - 19 | o oO { : i J PAG il G i 2 I 3 Pp) t 2 A £ : | s ory = ce wi @ ~ 23 | % il g i. a - f 2 ao | - f o + 25 | H | HW 50955 Docld:32203691 A SEC Red | 6 Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.U., and then later DDP. Q Now, tir.Harvey -~ do you recall what position Mr. r Harvey held after he left Task Force W? A Q A Q A He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. Harvey is a lawyer. 9 A Indiana. lished? A there about 1960 which was small, § Q A Q Page 93 Yes. He was And is he still with the Agency? Oh, no. He retired a long time ago. Do you know where he lives at the present time? Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives. Indianapolis area? Yes, some place around there. It is in the midwest, What was the role that was assigned to Task Force It was the overall Cuban operations. Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab~ Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down; This was, then, orior to the Bay of Pigs? Oh, yes. 5 Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami SECRET
@ a «SECRET | L A All Cuban operations are run out of Washington. HW 50955 Docld:32203651 Page 10 7 3 2 . . . : = Station running any operations against Cuba? = | m A -You mean crior to the Bay of Pigs? | Z £4 | 2 u a Yes. “ A I really don't know. It was a small -~ it was a i forward base and it was more .or less as I recall, a Support tvpe i thing. | i Q Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was © i established, did it have sole responsibility for. Cuban | 9 | | i operations? ti yf i a A Yes. an Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami | 2 12 | Station? 2 * 13% : : { ‘ an A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. & ' ; < r . : 3 14 4 Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special | as ft tage : ; ~9 | Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group? | i i a i A Right, except that at the present time the Station i “| has no Cuban operations. | ii d id i Q I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi- 3 -i% 1” nated? 8 | ( | | J ZU || A At the Station? Let's see. went down | c " ¢ F | 2 £2. there in 1972. It was during fiscal year '72. I think it was z <e | in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction. ; @ wi i . zg en | Q And have those operations been terminated entirely 2 £4 ' or are they now run out of the Washington area? tbe 1 : | - es | | \
oS 2 ° . z ~ : There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing. | 2 - : Q But there are some Cuban operations being run out of | < . the Washington area? ; = ' ' * ' A Right. | : ' ae ! “3 Q Is that correct? A Right. Worldwide. - - f Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may F \ ' : . 6 have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina- ; i y { H i 9 | tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assasSination 1°} attempts that have been mounted --~ | & . aa A Right. | j ' ' { i 2 Le Q -- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your < | a 13.) activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such! < « : 3 ia attempts? | | aa A Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say i j { i 16 attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too | | a strong a word. | ir : i aan Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of } ‘| | 2 Lg any such discussions? | 8 He S 6 eo | A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions, | a {; . | - il 8 2. I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgcerai ¢ : ! z | = Zz ! in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -- let me put | : fH . | a fe i = 26 | it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on : 3 25 3 with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as : | < 25! ifles ‘and
a SECRET | c g g po . : v - ie . . ‘ i g " a telescopic sight. “ . . ‘ Z i Q Who wanted them? ¢ i < Go , i A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think oo : x a t | . at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going | 1 On. I didn't participate in it because I was there for another: -~ © ' a ; reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerais 7 i ll met with him again and as I recall, as the personal bepresenta-| 8 , ! tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. é | g . . . I provided all those files. There are 19 valumes that 16 i - ewi we gave to your people. But I don't know who wes reviewing it them. I think Belin was going to do it himself. | 3 Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself. | < Is You said there were 19 volumes of documents with fo, | 3 * respect to this. “9 A 19 files, manila. | 16 . ; . . . ~9 - Qe All having to do with possible assassination? tat Fy A All having to do with this whole time period and -- | i ~3 can we go off the record for a minute? | 3 +o (Discussion off the record.) 2 on | ou BY MR. MANFREDI: 3 - Q The first knowledge of such conversations that you | z = ee | had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr. eo  . oa as rd £39 | Fitzgerald? | Fa 24 | A I simply overheard it, that is right. | 2 os | | - 25 Q And who were the parties to the conversation you overr | HW 50955 DocId:32203851 Page 12 SECRET
i i} ! . 3g ; fol ai { ee] ~ 3 < d s s “ il & 24 a i z | = 2 i cad rn a a fro t 5 a é i H S || } ‘ | 9 | | 10 | ty | t | 12 | 3 | a ' a 13. o i = Hi ¢ i 3 14 | 261 I 16 | 13 a i9 Co Qo a Co fa) S Or i 3 ely g z 22 | wt . ty = 26! a ,. | z <4. E 2 | v 25 i HW 50955 vectassz20a{e1 Page 13 SECRET SECRET Lo heard? A A fellow naned ffieeeormsemenc Q And Mr. Fitzgeraid? A Yes, and I realiv can't recall some of the other thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody | was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations. Q This was in Paris? A Yes. ‘ i i | ‘ ; cannes yee ; ; Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had receive: instructions with respect to this activity from another component of the Government? A Well, let me put it this way. I don’t know whether they received instructions. I have to assume, and I am oretty positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision. And at this time you have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was overseeing this deal, presumably for his brother, and he was
© | SECRET : a i 11 2 e o ' i g Lo, & part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided, wy ; a . a i he did a number of things. | 3 ti , | q li . @ i Q Were there any other occasions that you can recall 3 ‘ . ain which the possibility or the subject of assassination of : Pidel Castro was discussed? 5 ! i A ‘No, not really. i Q You referred to this as the first occasion. : ‘ 3 I A  . This is the first -- Qk | Q Was there a second? 7 i A ~~ the first time I knew about it or even heard it a | discussed. | 12 4 . . . . . : aaa | Q Well, prior to the investigation that is current?i-s a : ““} underway ~~ I am referring now to our Commission's investisation & i : ; : ah . . . . . | 3 te . =~ were there any other occasions in which this subject cane i t +8 to your attention after this discussion in the garden in I - ~6 i Paris? 2? | A The only other thing that came to my attention «135 ac that the decision was made not to provide him with this sith th 2 29 i that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, T don't Yao, 3 ‘| a oe i “ 5 i : < £0 | but that is what I was told. fa) : g 5. t = a) ; 9 When did you learn that? . 3 BE fl A Oh, I would assume in -- must have been early 196%, © ul ; . a] ra i * . z «= around February, something like that. z ao Q Off the record. 3 4 < <2 ail (Discussion off the record.) HW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 14
8 SECRET 2 i! © - 3 MR. MANFREDI: On the record. a 7 ~ of 8 aan BY MR. MANFREDI: c<4 . a . : : : ne . i! Q Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by = | * the name of Frank Sturgis? 8 : A Indeed. 6 tye: “4 Q Is your familiarity based on what you have read in ‘ yt " :} the press? i ¢ ‘ » ; 3 A No. It is what is contained in the files. I 9 i Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files, I ” | +e | particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division, 4 @ ral in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any 2 iz | connection with the Agency? Z < | o. Lo A I have. e | < at 7 3 aa Q What were the results of that search? i 15 || A Absolutely no connection, never has been. . 16 i Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about a7 il an employment relationship? | H 1 a A That is what I am speaking of. 3 i? i. Q Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of G 20 | the Agency? Cc ; i 8 zi i - A No. Cc { FS 22 ¢) Was he ever a contract employee? © ° 23 | A No. 2 7 4 a a 3 es | 9 Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency? : 3 £5 | A No. HW 50955 Docld: 32203651 Page 15 CFA RET
ss SECRET : F | 8 i | Z 4 9 Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the | 3 : i Agency? | x hy @ rN Not to my knowledge. 3 2 . i. a 4 ‘ Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- | “ i! pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against | é ft : Cuba? -! A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this ~ i Agency. , oli 7 ies Q How did you learn of those operations? ,. | : wd A Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. it ' * ; 9) Now, are these recent FBI reports? it 2 a A Oh, no. These go back -- I know at one’time, the | z | ‘ tO thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop | 53 i 4 | . . z oar over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and | a i ° . o 2 | by the Bureau office in Miaml. | 15} @) Do you know who financed his activities? t A I have no idea. | | oo i 2 . . . 2 . | Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis’ activities were | ; . . 2 2 indirectly financed by the Agency through -- i | & | ; G £0 | A I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of | ps - z a fortune; has been. He has constantly tried to associate himself z ce || with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me | wl i . . A ad gs . <. 25 | to classify the file and the way I classified it was “don't | a rt t « . 2 z «=. destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance." c ‘ ° il 2 gs | 4 | @) off the record. HW 50955 pocta:32203451 Page 16 GEC DET |
SECRET | 14 8 3° to; ! : F . (Discussion off the record.) a | MR. MANFREDI: On the record. > “| BY MR. MANFREDI: 6 | iH Q Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mir i . : li Sturgis to be assembled in any one location? ; i A Yes. Ihave custody of them. 7 i | i Q And wnat is the volume of that material? ‘| : 8 | ; ‘ ; A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee | 9 | . called for them the other dav after the article in the paper, | 1s . I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and : ny they returned them Monday afternoon. | 2 les Q Do you know who examined those files? | Sl | . “| A No, I don't. ; isi Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts | — the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? | i { aan A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits | -/ i of so-called information. | -3 | Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged | 3 i9 i narcotics traffic? | 3 20 A Recently it has been. | o 1 g | 3 | Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office : = ee i in Miami? | ri ; | Ww 3 23 | A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami | é <n to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the | = aa | ° 22 | PBI. HW 450955 DocId: 32203451 Page i?
t SECRET | 1s : - : 2 Do you know whether or not they consider him an ; . established contact? | ; i A No manner. ‘ * Q Do they have any -- do they periodically seek to © collect information from Mr. Sturgis? 6 A I can't speak to that but the records that we have a ( don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact a 8 somebody in that context, Knowing that there is a 201 file 9 on Sturgis, they- would have to coordinate with the Latin 10 | American Division before they did anything since we do hold ii 1. | the file. 2 12 | Q Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is? ¢ u ; 13 A A 201 file is a personnel file. It consists of any 4 il 3 Le | information relating to an individual appearing in the press uj / 20 -as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing. 16 | Q Personnel or personality file? 17 : A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me. id | ne) Do you know whether or not there is any connection il 2 19 I. or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis? 8 i 20 A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know I 3 ei | each other. They have to know each other from their days : 22 in Cuba. a 3 25 9 Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever particl- | ; 24 | pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba? : | os as A No. As I recall, we employed Martinez around 1961, ee a oy
® ' | SECRET ! 16: : a: I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a | 2 “4 boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltyations z | and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run, c 1 \ Q aod . : * oo sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never enyaged lin ° ; any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever i © ‘ do it on any of our boats, planes, or -- anything that beloncs’ to the Agency. i . . oO ; 8 / Q When Martinez would run such an operation or captain a ; i i : 9 i a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting 10 | . . together his own crew? { @ il i A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a } : > | - . . : 2 nf Case Officer operating either out of the -- probably out of i a 1 .: 1s the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have < i ; z 14 | some people in the[ _ipase- But he, Martinez, would] receiv - St : 25 | his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. 16 f Q Sa it is likely that he could have brouche Sturvzis 17 | along on any of these operations? 18 | A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I whs tl . 2 19 | trying to think of, Chief of Station, 3 iH ° . , G <0 | Q And that would be fer a period of time between a ¢ i ; 2 ae | Shackley and | ; = | 3 22 | A Yes. ul i n 3 z 25 i fe) 1964 to 1966? z Kite A Something like that. re i 2 _ | * Z| Q Would you describe briefly for me the nature 9 tne HW 50955 pocla: 32203451 Page 19 CrAR rT
@ | SECRET : VW 3 u : 3 a < activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during | & ; your -~ and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during | < oa a @ ; your 9-year tenure with those grouos. | fo] : 2 ae | a tr t Hy “ A Well, there was -- it was an across-the-board \ : intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign Qo8 tas . . . . wa: ! : positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary i. H activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about ° i the breadth of the thing. | ‘ HI \ i 9 H 9 Now, these were all conducted through the DDO? if ; i A Right. . r . i : VE ! & we Q Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary 12 . . | 2 ““ operations. Were these operations run out of southern | : ° =! Florida? & 4 i < TA i : 3 a i A Right. | | : =o Q And in particular out of the Miami Station? | | . i 4Y ra) u i 7TH A Yes. i ay Q Were there any other CIA facilities in that areh of | : 13 | the country that participated in these activities? 2 iy A. Not to my knowledge. 3 nN ~ ni , . . . G a | Q Were there any southern harbors other than Miami ra) i . i t s 33 4 A ° . A ' 3 eit that were used in these activities? 3 ge | A ui : @:. * | z an Q Were there any other bases in that area of the : | < £5 | country that were utilized in these operations? HW 50955 Docla:32203851 Page 20 GeCroasT i
SECRET is A well, not that I would call a base. We did have ~ 8 training facilities{ | 4 Son o € | Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 “e : Q Where were those bases located? cP A I frankly don't know.{ e Ls really can't recall them. . 9 Q Were there any other sites within the United States ° ' 4 a i : ic in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people i+! participating in these activities? | if aa 4 oe | A Not to my knowledge. | by i ; | ‘ Ie | Q Where were these people trained? 2 i | < -, i 3 “| A What do you mean? | i 25 | Q Well, Cubans who participated in.these activities. | tl | A We trained them at r 1 5 . . 2 ei ou Q Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these | wa sf z en i xvaids? £3 | A Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to g i { a i 3 24 | understand at this time that we had a great many contract | < 25 4 employees, independent contractors and this type of thing. | t HW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 271 GO? 2 ge Fe ae
Phone (Area 2027} 644-6000 a 2 ‘ < & at 3 1é i oO i ig < to 2 = ‘t ‘| hh i - if ans ‘| ao ! i | I: - J | H HI one i h 7Q a “ oa 2 1 od a Se i 4 on | : of! u ~~ ie} a ¢ I 6 21 | S a = 4 me ie z cet I in uu ii n Oe o < c : ew oe 3 u = 4 ° ca fl 2 eo | E “ fod A t ZO | HW 309554 Docld: 32203951 Page 22 SECRET 19 Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was conducted by the Special Overations Group which is another entity of the ~-- Q DDO? A, DDO. re) Now, the facilities that we have been talking about, training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special Operations Grouy, is thak correct? A Well, supervised, yes, and I would think that probabi- some of the training was given by their people. would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would probably staff the training facility with their people who hav the expertise in paramilitary operations. Q Now, were the pecrle that were being trained at fe these facilities basically Cuban refudees? A Yes. Q And at the outset ~ take it not many of those peovie were American citizens? A No. 9 Or had become American citizens. A I would assume a great many have. 6) By this time. A By this time, yes.
Fhnone (rea 202) £44-0000 20003 HW 50955 bBocld: 32203851 WARD & PAUL §.C., Washington, O.C. AYO ferst Sturecet, an fo) » aod ee p+ v Zz Kj that were immensely valuable that. he tried to have auctioned SECRIT a i { 9 At the praesent time, how large is that Cuban community in Miami? Do you have any idea? A Well, it is extremely large. | I would think it is 1 { probably -- I was trying to think. IT would say up towards a 1 t military people. Q You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert action. How do you distinguish between those two categories of activities? A Well, actually one can fall into the other. The paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days | we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was ! media placement. We had a number of operations at -- legal- | type operations, harassment operations. | For instance, Fidel { ! seized a great many art treasures and in particular he had a Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in | the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings: in London and the London auctioneer would not accest them | because he obviously didn't nave clear title to them. Ile was ~~ they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. le was | forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada. We ran legal operations, got the owners and had then hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing. He seized these race horses. He tried to peddle then. in Europe and up in Canada. We ran opposition against “that 5 ' i Hl H i | t Page 23 oo ee 2a Pe pea
Sc a - ras : rd L < < oa _ 5 a 2 So Ca KA - é g 3 & B é ~ y 6 9 a @ Li . ios 4 lz 3 < & ~~ a 13 a: rd € ss z 14 ao 2) + id wes ° av Q Co a N ar G aU C § 7 6 1 3 21 5 & yey z ad ui cas a ot @ - a) a cog a of a te S a = a ¢ 25 HY 50955 Bocld: 32703 | | \ : | t i) | SECRET | | type of thing. | Q These were what you considered to be covert operation. A Yes, covert action. | 9 Now, this is what you were referring to, legal- | type operations? | A Yes. . Q You used legal process to harass Castro. A Yes. | Q What other types of harassment activities did. you run that would fall under this covert action category? . A Well -- | Q Would economic warfare be -- : A That was sort of something separate unto itsel®. This was ~- the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a decision of the Special Group to enforce an economic blockalc. Q What special group is that? ; A It is now called the Forty Committee. Q Is that 302 Committee? A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all, it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then it went to the 302 and then it had another name in between there and now it is the Forty Committee. Q All right. We will return to that a little bit later, but what other types of harassment were vou runnina against Castro -- sa Page 24 Geeros?T i
{ i { ! | SECRET | 22 1 4 7 i 4 8 $ 1 4 S | A This is what I was trying to think of. Qo « : & i Q ° -- that would be considered covert action? 2 on ‘ < oy } 2 | A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement, | = , Hi i i media placement. It has been so long ago I really don't | 5 Il i remember. I know we had a number of things going against hin. ; We used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some : \ é j a ° peepee ae os 1c | | | | L Let's talk about each of those in turn. You said : 11 | | a , © | you used moral suasion. What kind of activities are you , 12 | ; 3 referring to? } : | | 13 . . . ; 3 | A Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we | ro t | ‘ $ A | 3 | were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had the legal " activities, the legal -- well, I don't know how you would | 3 , : +6 | phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control ant regulations of the Treasury, Department, the Trading with the | Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of 3 Lg Commerce, the Export Control people. £0 | I guess as you are aware, Cuban industry was totally | 5 3) . . ; 3 wo U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of a ee thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying © 3 | to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where 3 a4 we would find this out through all-source intelligence, we | ° i} 3 25 or the Treasury people or the Commerce people would go to the HW 50955 Docldad: 32203851 Page 25 2eFf eT
particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans HW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 26 t t { i : o t 8 i g executives of these American. companies and ask them to tell | 6 their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts | 2 "and the other things that Castro might need. We had the 3 . , | Department of Commerce -- we identified 600 of the major U.S. | , companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry. ; We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600 ; ‘N : ys + manufacturers and ask them to cooperate with them in denying | ‘ * any Spare parts to the Cubans. This was a fairly concentrated | i; | ; effort to really isolate them. ; hi : te | ans Q All right. And that is what you were referring to ; r ; | ~~ as moral suasion? | 5 ~ A Yes. | 5 7 Q Anything else in that category? 3 9 < a | “3 A Not really. None that I can think of. | “Ss Q Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign ~~; companies? - A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless, 1a 4 A 4 i 14! 3 wok 3 ‘i 5 <1 Q Now, did you attempt to reach any other sources of z 22" supply? uw a !  @ 4 234 \ . . | F “ A Well, we also had wnat we call a preemptive purchasing z ae " program. If there was a single source of supply for a ia { 2 . fi | : { H CR 8 Gh Gin SE wm
Hiv 50955 oS o ft $ at 5 : the market. a Bo a " - i Q zg yy < u 2 4 & Pane ii Q a i Q 2 i : A & | | 9 | 9 a { il il ; | “Some Bright Stockg 12 | 5 ! Q < . | ES) 13 oO l A id H & 4 Fy 14 ! | Q 25 | | A 16 oat <7 ip | 13 i 4 19 o o o g 20 | G ¢ 8 21 | a i c FA $0 ee | n i = 25 1 g Q = f a i Z ee | | < £5 | A Docld: 32203951 Page 27 | { | i her energy comes from oil, this was considered a critical | commodity. Bright Stock can be -- oh, it is almost like tar, | melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this | type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So | we had an oil firm purchase this Bright Stock from a dealer for which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventually were made within the United States? Resales, I should say. SECRET 24 Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic ee ann i Yes. “-~ domestic market? : No. It would be re-sold abroad. ? In all cases? A The cases that I was associated with, it was all sold abroad. What kind of purchases were made? Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased What? Bright Stock. What is that? Heavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of f a Do you know of any sales of such materials that No. LEAN SS
SECRET 2 3 7S 2 Bo. ... . . | z “ 9 In addition to preemptive buying were there anv & ; other actions taken by this group with réspect to sources of z Bo ., i 2 ; supply to Cuba? 7 A Well, we did provide through third country agents “2 who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce Bij . ° « Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had i replacement parts manufactured that were substandard. , i 8 : : , | Q And you had them sold through foreign companies? ti 7 9 I - . i nr \ Well, we had our agents get the Cuban orders all 10 | i; over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of fact, @® x. | | “i the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Des. 3 te and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this. < N a | ' 7 ij . a ae | 9 Mr. Dilion? 5 “i A No. He was Secretary of the Treasury. aa Q But .-- a ' A But you must remember that these American -- aoa ~ | Q Mr. Connors? ic A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturer SQ it . 1 3 +4 | well, their places were nationalized and they were only too . 20 | . : 8 <\V || happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona it . 4 : 3 el i fide business. These things were transshipped through two ; 5 c | . : = ae ; or three countries, finally wound up in Havana. : @®:  .s FA oo i Q You referred to some extra-legal activities. Fa cs t A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what < | | m c . . i * 29 | we did. I just can't think -- I remember. this was on one of HWY 350955 DBDocld:32203951 Page 23
\ StcRst , 2 6260 | Oo te : 8 2 ' S : Our activities but I just can't think -- I remember this was é |} On one of our activities but I just can't remember what the € extra-legal was. I just can't remember wnat it was. I know fe) i . i a hoo & it was one of the parts of the program. i Q This was illegal activities? Is that what you are h 6 4 . « veferring to? i A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but thev ‘ | weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps they were ina 9 | | gray area some place. ae . : il Q Well, whose laws are we talking about, international 1: | “| law, the laws of the United States? {i q oO 3 “<I A I would have to go back and review the thing. f a } 13 | . - i really. can't remember this. I would have to go to the files. io |i < a it 3 “8 | Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the fiies? ae ll —_ | “a A I would think probably downg me VE H ~ if place. : an Q Would it be possible to obtain that material sore a time during the Lunch hour? u 9 8 29 ie A 3 i 3 on Q Well, is there some place in the building where e | you could refresh your memory? 5 6 3 29 |! . 3 an A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipoe:. al ii @ “ 22 || ; 3 onan This is talking 1l years ago, 12 years ago. All that materia! E <* | has been retired. 2 . {i v 25 i | Q What category of activity would we be talking abo." WW 50955 Docold:322903851 Page 29
{ : | 2 2H g " = when we refer to extra-legal activities? | a f A This is what I was trying to think of and I can't | 5 | think of what it was. I know extra-legal activities was one i 3 te i , parts of the program that we were involved in. 5 4 i I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might’ if . ' “i 5 tell me what that is. Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to : 3 | | ‘ jj, come back to that. ‘ ‘ 9 | - A. All right. 15 ; Q Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal ; 1 ~ activities that were run against Castro? | I 10} i 2 ad A Well, the people that would be knowledgeable are , : 13 | ‘ “| probably retired and I was running the program. So I ran < 1a | 3 * the economic program. | i x8 | Q Well, these are activities that were run in connectix. ~" i} with the economic program? aan A Yes. ! £3 I . oo. ; aan Q We talked about media placement during this nine- 3 13 ib year period. To what are you referring when you refer to i | media placement? 2 | a ol it = | A Well, stories or news items that perhaps our. E i % set a ae | propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers rf ee and magazines throughout the world. a . i z * Q Would this also include broadcasts over radio || stations? HW 50955 Docld:32203951 Page 30
5 ° s c. +: ) 2 3 £ Lod . "4 Pal : 8B & i ‘ i te 9°05 | e 4 en aq 4405; . Le i J au 3 iH < it a +h é 13 ‘i fs) H & 2 < ei 3 a | ag oma i | aoe — i u ret) ir - | Lo | t il oie mane) a ca 2 i 9 ne nN now : i c . i < Le 3 21 4 = i 3 i 3s 22 | uw r “ “4 v {i ? tt “A : = on 4 - if S | ¢ 25 | i SECRET 23 X Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it. O Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines a publisied within the United States? A Wot to my knowledge, no. 2 These were essentially foreign publications? A Yes. Q- Were any of them published in the Cuban community in Miami? A No. The intent was to get world opinion against Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States. ~ 2 What about the radio broadcasts? How were those handled? A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now? 9) well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations were involved. tlas there more than one radio station? A No. We only had the one radio station but we did contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York. Q For broadcasts to what areas? A For broadcasts to Havana. Q And the station in New York, was that received also -- was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United States? ‘ ( A I have no idea. I don't know whether they used a particular frequency to get this out or whether they did it on short-wave or what they did. HW 50955 voora:a220a4s1 Fage 31 SECRET
Prone (Area 202) 544-6000 al > i < a : 3 14 | fa) | & \ < Tey 3 Lo ' 1 JO 1é | ' ! | iy 1A 4 * rz 4 Y eR mf 4G iyo Le | i i it n 13] Q vt oO i ° i et oN . G wt: ra} c 5 07 2 ra € £ ¢ ~ 2 22 w . a _t a 2 eo 4 re) ir 2 B a iF - olf y £ Pie Lo} Ad 25 HW 50955 Docld: 322036/1 Page 32 SeCRIT so (2 But the intention was to reach Cuba. A Reach Cuba. Q You referred to a station in New York, referred to aS Swan. Were there others? A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in Miami. I think there was one -~- yes, there was one in Miami, I- think, Q Where was Radio Swan located? A On Swan Island. - Q Where is Swan Island? A Swan Island is a little glob arounc Honduras. ‘ Q ‘As far as you can recall, were there any other radio stations in the United States that were utilized to broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba? A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that I recall right now. Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or Jroups affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American public to support those propaganda activities? A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of thing was fully subsidized by the Agency. re) Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty? A Oh, yes. 9 Was anything of that nature done in connection with SS TG MF, TS
HW 450955 ° i ° H 2 is 4 i < a as “4 or a 3 My bt J 7 | | | & i! \ {i ; ; rare l ae if Hi ie | a a fi 3 | < \ e 1S i! a i a i < mA 2 LG \ 15 | 1 146 | { arn F 1e 4 i i - 19 | o 3 i QO lk eo S J ZO i G fF = el | : z i 5 fh z Le || a ; = 25 | a 2 a “ c og BDocld: 32203351 SECRET | 30 Cuban propaganda? A Not to my knowledge. Q And that would include both the vublications and tie radio? | A Right. 8) Let's talk about economic warfare for a counle of moments. Could you describe for me briefly the type of economic activities that were conducted against Castro? A Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the regime, his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in im the State Department and, well, for instance, in those days, guess it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had Jumped trom about a penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -- Fidel kent saying that he had such a poor crop and this type of thing and we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poor crop peciuse some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttii this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a cay, this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was, lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schocls, any place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place he could. So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in New York, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a Page 33 SECRET |
~ Pe fs & wd wad : : real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting. & i It was this type of thing that obviously he was : ~ trying to build up the world price because he didn't have an; . Money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn't: “want him to get the exchange. So it was those types of ~ activities. . os Fo . ‘ . ae @) Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S. i Boi . . . - “+ companies enlisted in that effort? 9 4 | i A on, yes. ~ H 9 In what manner did you use U.S. companies and i “~~. businessmen? i ; Rey . } 2 a A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A jreat . “* i many -- the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the itd a . 2 i4 i American community, by American bankers, and obviously they i , ' sag b ‘ ‘ +9 iH lost.everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is the q if t 5 : . . +5 , Lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, tnis 4 -/ type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 tarset.ve ct ae i was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen. i 3 19 ! Q What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain fru u £° 3 these businessmen? 2 eid A Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you c a = i 3 £2 i know, the market conditions were, why the price was risiny, . f° ° j . ‘ us i \ “ 5 q * a : ra 23 | we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would E a4 || happen to the market price. This type of thing. * £9 | 2 They were used as consultants,basically. | : | t | H¥ 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 34 GECnsT
SECRET g L bo A They were used as consultants, basically, yes. = 2° | | | z ul 9 We have spoken about the investment American business, e. zk é an , a. | 2 * had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American 5 | ; Organized crime -- i 5 : A No. é : ° Q ~~ had considerable investment in Cuba? 7 4 ‘ | f A No.. Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in By . . . ‘ i Cuba. I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing. ‘g i i | as Q The casinos were run -- | we A I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force! during the war, I used to fly into Havana cn weekends and this ke j~ i | i \ | ' oj 5 +e type of thing. < a te 134 . ; . aan Q I understand that. It was fairly well-known. of ‘ 14 3 . | ; A It was a criminal element. . | : rsh | a Q The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana. iH . : Iai ° =O) A Right. ~7 i Q Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist 26 "the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner 2 +9 * whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime? | o st + t : Eo A No. fay 4 j % ant Q Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli? Z oi | = ee i A Oh, yes. 4 | & a cae " oO When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli? 5 i a a,b 2 a4 i A Well, I guess it was -~ it seems to me it was either | ‘ «2 | Drew Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number | i ‘ | f HW 50955 vocra: a2203¢h1 Page 35 Cr eR ey
aha eri ‘e) Ea a aaj : 330CO| a } g ; 3 L ; 3 of years ago. | g ki Q Was that the first time you heard of the man's | T 3; name? i . , A Yes, as I recall. ~ Q Is that also true of Sam Giancana? ~ 4 A No. I have heard that name but I don't know where. : ‘ i Q In connection with -- | 8 | A Not in connection with the Agency, no. | é i i 5 od 9 Q In connection with the casinos or -- l - ‘ yet ‘ ' . | Q -- gambling interests in Cuba? 19 I ' 4 12 | A No. | a f : 18 9 You know of no instance in which organized crime ; . " i v4 i I < aa i . 3 | figures were used as consultants by the Agency? | 25 A Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge | 16 | of that whatsoever. | aa Q Do you know of any offers of assistance from figures | ye | 16 of that type -- 2 ad is A No. \ G eu Q ~~ who were interested in getting back into cuba? Q Y : E g ei} A No. 3 22 Q We were talking about economic warfare. We have ! w . nD il : : = 720) | talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other = fi Fd a i types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's | 7 2c Cuba? | HW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 36 GSEeCRewT
HW 450955 8 {Primm ex ported to the United States. So we went to | g 4 ¢ : = 24 ° h ¢ u 4 a — i ¢ ‘j 2 tk i Gh 7 ii i! 9 || 6 | : | 1a! ia. i i i 2 2 13 || a i) 2 Ae i | ; 1A} at H 4 seed ~f ‘| id | Hl = 19 : 8 te ° ie N c ! i 2 i g 21h E i z il oO . tet 4 | < 20 u 5 i i coat hd i 2 i 7 295 | DocId: 32203851 34 l . . . . i A Well, we used ali-source information to find out what his commercial dealinas were. “nen we would see -~ well, for instance, the Nicaro Mickel itine which is a source owned by the General Services Administration, finally got back into production and nickel, of course, and still is -- was in short - . | | supply. We had who was : buying output of the Nicaro mines. And this ‘ i ; i i ‘ i ' the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these | ~ i( exports coming into the United States? So thev Looke. | into the thing and indeed they did. Q Who owned the mine? . A The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it | over. . Q I see. A General Services Administration. And it vas leases out for operation. But the ownership rested with the Government. So the Treasury simoly made thef provide a Certificate of Origin for the nickel that went in -- they export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives and forks, this type of thing, and -- you know, stainless steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply -- Treasury simply said you can't import any more into this Page 37 GSECRzT * |
Phone (Area 202) 444-6000 “2 be c ho ol J i! 3 i e fi a f | « ao 3 La i! i vel LO | f] 16 | if 18 | i i a 1g | 8 | So S | es a : : 20 | ¢ | an c 5 ' 3 Qo] z 22 | a ; Ww H 2 23 | rm) { ¥ H a - “ i! SECRET _ country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter | of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in i New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it around. Eventually, over a period of months, | : ‘ ‘ found other sources and export privileges to the United States were restored. You know, it is -- you just -- any time you raise or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that simple. QO Were there any other instances that you can recall of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of American business firms? i A I know we were in touch with a great many American business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could. | MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. | (Discussion off the record.) BY MR. MANPFREDI: 9 When we broke for a moment we were discussing other . 1 instances where tne Agency has enlisted the support of Americar: business in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of any other such instances? A Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having an awful tine with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. people and told them -~ asked them to cooperate with us,which HW 50955 Docld: 32203851 Page 36 CPF A FP y ve simply went to the
HW 50955 cS 4 . = 3 < ad a? a z Lo] ™ 3 ° . < oO a io 2 . 3 G nd is) 9 10 il 3 le > < a F 13 a e < 3 14 16 aad 16 a —f ¢ 1.3 a 19 iw] 4 S G roa] c E 22 reel ! 20 a 5 24 S - ¢ 295 Docld: 32203 wae SECRET a they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's representatives around the world if they got any orders from | the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing. ‘ We; did-the same thing with -- | Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, wasf | compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency? ° A No. Q Were they compensated for the loss of business involved in that, activity? A No. No. 0) I take it, you received similar cooperation fron other companies. A Oh, a great many other companies, yes. Q Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in that manner? A No. Not a one. Q Were there any legal sanctions threatened agains’ in: companies? A No. No. Q Were there any sanctions that could have been breaiit to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with Cuba? A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with Cuba. They couldn't get export licenses from this country... anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of th2 Page 39 Seeod aT
5 2 it cS if é u 8 . ‘i i 4 1 i Ty 1. 8 | | i ‘ {! 9 4 i |i , Ll @ | 5 | ¢ & 2 13 | : rg t : LA ae) | 16 i af f i 13: ao! m a7 i 2 2 { = i “ G 29 | c i < | 9 ei ii & ‘| £ oo ‘ z 22 | 2 ao | a op 2 at ¢ < 25 | SEC kT 37 Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot -- foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated countcy And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried to twist their arm. . Q Other than insuring that these companies refused to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were | legally constrail you receive from American business? A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, they received it from Cuba asking for publications and this type of thing. They would normally forward all this typeof thing to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in some instances they might call me and I'would just give them a Post Office box to send the correspondence to. Q Any other types of support solicited or received by the Agency from American business? | : A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one firm we approached, and God knows we approached I don't know how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough, : that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the government wasn't really pusning Cuba the way it should, but HW 450955 vocta:s2203461 Page 40 SECRET ee ‘ 4 { i ' H ‘ ned from doing, what other types of support dic
@ SECRET | : ii H¥ 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 41 & Ft ge Fy 38 2 = : Outside of that, nothing. There wasn't any problem of coopera-! & 8 z tion. Tnere wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary. | 2 Q Did you identify yourself as CIA -- : A Yes, ~ Q ~=- in dealings with these companies? ~ A Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even ° : the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all. B . | ' i Q Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started | ; but didn't really discuss that in any depth. 1 i Y | { : 1¢ 4 . Lae . i . What kind of paramilitary operations were run } “~* | against Cuba by the CIA? : g ¥ an! 3 ne A Maritime operations. & i i : aa Q - Is that the extent of it? oo 4 il i 3 id 4 : . i 3 a A That is the extent of it. ! aa Q Were there any aerial operations? : il 16 A Not to my knowledge. ; wi Q Leaflet drops? aan A No. + i 5" i 2 ae 0) Bombing? | o i : G ay A No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far as | CG a : = ti = 5 4 | 5 «i: I am concerned that is the only aerial activity. | z i S ao i : = ae | Q That was run by another directorate, wasn't it? | x na | © 3 ant A Yes. | 3 F | 2 a4 Q Aerial photography, and so forth. ! 3 i s ec | ° 2 A Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to |
r . ame Ds @ : SECRET a 39 § & | be requested and that is absut it. e j Q And those were run out of the United States? = rf A Oh, yes. i Q Can you think of anvthing, any other type of para- military activity other than maritime operations. - A No. I really can't, no. 74 . i Q Am I correct that those operations were manned , | ' ~ # by CIA contract employees? ¢ | fi : ~ x. il | Q Which would include Cuban refugees. | li Lo ang i 3 ~< Hl 9 And sone CIA officers? a we i ° sy : 9 i A Rignt. > “| Q Any other branches of the services, Armed Services, : | al ‘ “9 ; involved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs. an A Yes, No, not to my knowledge. You have got to veomerbar -" - that probably down re | ao i probably have people on detail from other -- from the military if . Al a _7’ i. branches in the Government, but other than that I con't think ° if ! ¢ i * ar | . . . 4 el i} that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also - fH ' c i 5 gry : j 3 Ro i had people detailed into the Agency. z 4 ' E os tl 3 ee Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime @ x! 3 - jj) operations, I take it, was conducted in part within the “* + United States and in part outside of the United States. Is | : | | = 25 |i l that correct? HW 50955 Docld:32903851 Page 4?
SECRET i i 1 “ A I would think probably the major portion of it was oe) + ‘ | = 2° toy e gh ; | é. : conducted within the United States. 2 “4 Q. @ route be considered within the United 3 = 4° | States. a A Oh, yes. Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted . . : : i outside the United States? i 8 | ' ye A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not i to my knowledge. I just don’t know, I just don't recall i 1G . . . . . . a | but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done i| . i aq 4 . | ij domestically. | 12 | : < - . . . i 2 ~~ 6) Now, what kinds of operations are included within i . 15 i this category of maritime operations? « 4 ' < 14 i . . . . - gs ; 3 +% A Well, the infiltration operations, infiltrating | +9 | agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage | { . ‘ 7 | ~* i yaids. That is about the extent of it. , -f it Q Now, when did these operations commence? ‘Vas it a | +o | shortly after the Bay of Pigs? 2 a9 ie A T would -- I think these operations were probably oO tH mi if 29 Hat their height during the period about 1963 through, say, | | 4 | ee | 1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December : 1968, something like that. . 410 Fiest Sucet, S.E., Washington, 0.C. Re Q Why was the program terminated? <4 | A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn't provid~ . ; i ES ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically, | WW 50955 Docld: 32203451 Page 43 ern enemas all «Rion, PITRE
HW 450955 roe) Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 rl WARD & PAUL on A t- ios) ke Hn nN in 416 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 a no #> eX 2s Docld: 32203 | T | | | | i ‘ i i I i t { | | | | | | | | | | if | | | | | | | | SECRET | | 41 it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were getting wrapped up. We were -- we just felt that the return wasn't sufficient for what the investment was. Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up. A Yes. re) What do you mean by that? A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify him and capture him. 6) “These various types of paramilitary operations that were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the Forty Committee? _ A Every operation received a specific approval fro- the Forty Committee. Q In advance? , : A In advance. Q Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- far initiating such an operation? A Well, normally in the case of an infil or an »xfil. or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache. Q You are referring to a cache of arms. A A cache of anything, replay of radio, batterics, whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have one of these operations and the request would go from here over to the, I guess to the White House and then the Forty Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet very 51 Page 44
HW 50955 Prone (Area 202) 544-6000 WARD A PAUL A410 borst Srrcel, S.E., Washington, D.C, 20003 Bocld: a> an jo b+ be ray) }-! ¢ a) its ro) Bil Page 45 SECRET e on frequently -~ they would either approve the operation or say no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper phase for communications and this type of thing. And these things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military agency that had any involvement whatsoever, and the entire thing was coordinated. @) Do you know of any such paramilitary operations that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee? A No. Q What kind of volume of operations are we talking about?. A You are not talking about a very big volume of operations because of the planning that had to go into these things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing they may be running three or four a month. No more than that. Q You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having } run 300 operations. A I have seen that. 9 Is that inaccurate? A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He may have considered some of the training exercises as opera- oo, oem wm Gm, ee om 4
| SECRET | ! 43 3 - = 7 tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one | 5 “i of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother | z ship in place and rubber boats and[__| people to go in to | * 7 see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore | te | aot i ° tefore you go. So he may have considered that all these train- ! ~ ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici- | i pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba. a: | ' i Q Now, from what specific locations were these I | 9 | operations launched? i aire wee : an A They were mostly launched from lid . aan Q Any other locations? oO 3} 2 le A Not to my knowledge. | F i a ot . :. +9 i Q Now, would you describe for me the kind of hit and | & i , ¢ aoe 4G : 3 “si yun sabotage operations that were conducted? 7 | +9 i A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against | fi { 16 | the Texaco refinery. ane Q What used to be the Texaco refinery? | | id } A What used to be the Texaco refinery. i \ a a Lg MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. r zu | (Discussion off the record.) G F ! : i! 3 me THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning: = i . | 4 . : . . z 22 | went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery. w ‘ Po ze i We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this 2 a ; type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It « 1 g ‘ ? 29 | | \ was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was | t i WW 50955 BDocka: 32703951 Page 46 Cee RPS
3 3 Loi g qT -? a a a f 3 4 z 5 2 : 8 i & Bo é . 7 i 8 ij | nm | 16 | | ri | if t 3 1é |i 5 | a P 13 ii 9 i z i 2 14 i +o || | | 14 ! iL? me I id |. i] n 19 | o , ° H o Ol y a ‘ < | 3 21 | z 22! "psy e 8 1 4 52 ll 2 ao z \ ° ti 3 25 | i much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out SECRET | 44 a successful operation. By that, I mean tney cidn't do as because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type of operation that we did. As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we 5 ‘N did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and ij | ! exfiltrations. . | { { Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo? A Not to my knowledge. . | Q Was it impractical to use the base there for -- A Well, the base is so surrounded and has been tnat I think 1f a guy went through that fence you would carry him: back. He wouldn't walk. MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) MR. MANFREDI: bach on the record. BY MR. MANFREDI: Q Are there any other categories of sabotageG@ | | | { . 4 ; | 2s i other than what you have just described? | A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage ; kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down | 1 | erank cases. Things of this nature. 1 i . . { One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage | t if HY 50955 Docld: 32203851 Page 47 o@ oe 2 IPR, SP age
eT ant. Za 938 ica Sos fi kvl t t 45 < " all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our é : own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We = . ; contracted with an American firm for that. And we shipped Fad ‘ i ° ° f it in through thicd countries in Europe. It did hit the target... ! The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the ; & ii ~ automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking F i down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have : i| cit everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive ‘ | | . . . : eo g equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because 1¢ jl Castro didn't hve the money to buy it and they weren't going to | | ; | extend the credit. ; 2 i | The railroad system was in total disaster. The | a 4 . 15 i Soviets had such a long loyistics line, supply line, plus c i j < ; ; ; 3 14 | the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment ; Ht . ‘ | +5 | because they were used to good American equipment. And these i6 | were principal targets that we were trying to get to. ~! il Q In your experience at the Agency can you tnink of th is i any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run | = 19 ; from a base in the United States? G £0 A No. c i | 2 al f 9 I know there has been some paramilitary trainin, z : 5 22 | 2 : i = = in the United States. " “2, ij i s fo | A Oh, yes.: z i ' B i ; { 3 K&S Q In connection with other operations. 2 | | * 1 ! 29 A Oh, sure. | \ aw 50955 Docld:32203861 Page 48 SECRET
i 2 ge Dy i, RT Os Ey 46 8 z vO Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that 2 vk were actually run out of the United States? é i 4 Sou ma 4 A No. \ Soo Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unigust » Situation. 6 A . As far as I am concerned, it Ls, yes. ° i Q Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in , S | wiami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as | G i . . ~ : : . ° i the third largest Navy in the Caribbean. LS os : . a A That is right. iii Q What kind of equipment did these peonle have? WARD & PAUL SHEE they. wereme ceaeme lw, we ligar mea! 7a: oo ma 8 2 i G £0 3 a | 8 210 Ey € 3 22 ' 1 i 5 BA 2 a ~ i! ed 2 & i & i © ns li < 25 || A HW 50955 Docld: 32203841 Page 49
Santa fe oy ; SECRET | 3 —— : 3 ~ oa . g . 0 Fishing companies? ' 2 . f { “ ; A Well, fishing companies, marine | g i; supply. In all, I think during the period that the station 5 il I think we had 100 so cover companies. i “ 6: . { ‘ ‘i xe) Did any of these companies actually engage in any i legitimate commercial activities? i 8 | | rr A Not to my knowledge, no. i] | Q None of them ~- were any of them in competition with 10 1 j: firms in that area? an These are probably what we would call 5 12 | 3 €< a. _ cs 135 fe] t 3 14 Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn’t running these operations? : A Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as | 1 12 3 I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that ! ° ‘ ‘i ‘ ® ent 0 aad | contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent Ve : 1 5 2 | LS . toe a aii 3 “~ 4 under such strict operational disciplines = “< Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He . ; 7 i : 3 a ' came back ~~ he might come back once a month, or somethings a ad é <“* like that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks ¢ On i ; 1£— he got some time off. HW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 5
HW 450955 oS cn] ¢ x 3 a a oa ca a q ° £ 3 £ ’ ‘es c Cc 4 7 3 an? il 2 od i i 5 f i tt a tl i i i root i . a 4 12 ii 5) ti < I; a | 17 4 a me i a i! c i! < re z 14: i i} ~ - ff a0 8 5 ul I TAF i ii ro H V a AL i uy te if TQS fea “we te c+) a 2 n G eo: = i] 5 < ot z if a ae 2 ane ) it S - ae ed 3 : = . ; a A q z ee +; “ « 25 5 \ ‘1 Docld: 32203651 | SECRET an i Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were actually stationed full-time | ; ; A on, yes. Oh, sure. | } Q Were there any operations run out of the United | States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of sugar or anything of that sort? A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the | | Puerto Rican thing? | A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind. | Would you describe that for me? A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs. In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the drydock or wherever it was, they had to remove the sugar and put it in the warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came up with a plan to try to widen the rift between ~- there was a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it | acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the individual, and some of this was done. And then when it leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar firm buy it back from the Soviets. Page 51 ,
Phone (Area 202} 544-6000 on oO coool ae WARD & PAUL fo tn ro aha po 2 re a) m nN © nt tal raw) rw 410 First Street, §.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 40) a) 25 WW 50955 Bocld: 3272703551 Q SzCRET 49 Bought it back from the Soviets? Yes. MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record. BY MR. MANFREDI: Are there any other operations in which crops were ~- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba? those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total A Q A Q A No. No. Place foreign substances in Cuban products? In Cuban products? Yes. No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have | anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.! There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around J 9 g with this big plan -- of course, there were a number of experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. I forget -- several other European and American companies that had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment- ing with the, you know, cross~breeding and this type of thing. Canada age 5 N Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to pnd paid $100,000 for a bull and -- so he just put it King Ranch had one there t ‘ | | | |
Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 fol oa a for WARD & PAUL fr tn ke Or }4 On Poe Tauro’ ny © 24 410 First Stecet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 tw fal 295 HW 50955 DBocld: 322703 50 on an old Cuban Airways airslane. The damn airplane few too high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type of thing. So he was helping us all along the line and ‘this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this type of. thing. But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade and cut off his sources of supply. Q When was the Miami Station established? A As a station? Q Yes. A I think in September 1961. Q And that was several years before you became involves in Cuban matters? A Yes. Q Do you know of any other facilities of that nature within the United States, Agency facilities? A You mean, targeted against the opposition? Q Yes. A A station as such? Q Yes. A No. You have some communications facilities that you really call stations because here again, they are not 1 Page 453 att tamh saith Witte, vtat am
2 4 ~ ° a » * . a $ io: directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support x “=. overseas communications. te. he € F Q Of course, we have bases and DCD offices and : | — é . ! Office of Security officers, and so forth. 5 3 aw Right. é : Q But I am talking about actual stations. 7 A Operating stations, no. * {1 8 ; Q This is the only such station in the United States 4 {i if g |) as far as you know, is that correct? . i - 19 | A Right. Hi Li Q And was this station established to deal orivariiy. al | 5 12 with Cuban activities? s | a 13 A Yes. & i s 14 ; Q Cuban-related matters? " 75 1 A With Cuba, period. fF i | 1A il 6) Did it have, when it was established, any other ae responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activ tic v it 18 : A Not to my knowledge. ,| 4 133 Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities? “ en fi A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and otiher Y we , 5 oy 1 countries in the Hemisphere. = ! ; 3 29 if Q When you joined the group dealing with Cuban : i ; iw : a a7, i activities, what was the size or the number of personnel Fa ~~ | 2 F a o, | attached to that Station? 3 25 | A To that Station? Well, the Station had probably 4 \ . HW 50955 bBocld: sezosbs1 c@agées4 SECRET 51 G2 SP gh Fy ap ae
oO 2 - 2 $ 3 J. s 3 -_ ~ N Pas o ce 3 2 - < Re u Cc 3 . a & 5 6 7 ‘ 8 g Te Li ; lz fs) < a - a. 13 fa) ia < 3 1é Te Lo 14 mt a; 1é a 13 o Qo R co J ZO 0 S él a £ 5 5 22 wt - 23 " . a a Lo} ? 25 24 | 52 , couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the obviously i height it | | 9 A | { Q A employee. Q people? A ] | | Q | A | Q Agency, plus I don't know how many contract employees, the largest installation we had. I think at its had over 500 people in it. Full-time Agency people? No, no. Combination of contract and -- And full-time, yes. A regular employee we call a st Now, would Martinez have been one of those contra Yes. Even though he was located | si i Oh, .yes. And what kind of facilities did the Station have i; Miami? .Physical facilities. independent contractors, probably another 200 minimum. It was in | ' ao ae Well, they were located| ‘ A | HW 450955 Docld: 32203861 Page 55 well off the had our own guard force. ' Official cover? unit. It was prettyiwell off the beaten path, in fact, damn
SECRET | 53 Q | nat was the cover? ; : | “| It vas| It was called -{__} ' ; i Phone (Area 2U2) 444-6000 Q Engaging in any business? A No. ‘ : . Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community, ‘ Bu : how long could| [hast? i: i i Gi} ~ . . ‘ ‘ . y A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research ) ‘ activities. Funded -- i Government agencies, in other buildings, of course. HW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 56 , LD | =< 4 | 3 & a 13 | | 5 fF Q Yes, I understand. & iH : : TA i [ ~ A So it was a research activity and the only people tha an ever paid. any attention to the place were the newspapers. You il “know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept -' 1 any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this | i ! “° "type of thing, | 3 a F 8 _ G ae P The guard | G 3 | force, of course, were like -- - well, they wore uniforms, seme 3 z2 3 to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think wi i | 3 _t s £5. that there was -- in the later days at that site I think the | ¢ Aor had offices in there and some other * 28 | | '
3 in Ps S SECRET a ie) And this particular Station, then, was under tne supervision of the group we have been discussing? Phone {Arca 202} 544-4000 Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division. | ‘ A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations. ; , ° i 2. When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume | 5 i > . a . . + . ~ | yesponsibilities for the Miami Station? tt ~ = a { : \ oH A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the rm Gt : ‘ ‘ | Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western ‘ Bi ue ; i : | WARO & PAUL 4 iF 4 Q When you joined the group in 1963, what functions | - Hi . . . . , 2¢ 1) were being performed by the Miami Station? i if : mn Lg A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. f fo] ¢ ty i G 20 4 think I have lined them out at one time -- collection of ; C ; é an . . _ ._ | £ ei | positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this = . | 3 22 type of thing. Covert action. i vi a2! oo. ; . ; | : 234 Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in 3 i ; 2 e4& | the deposition? | z \ 2 . | | 7 23 A Yes. H¥ 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 57
o vo] 3 i < T wt & 2 > te 3 . < & é 2 a 4 5 6 7 f ’ 8 9 Lo ® 12 4 12 2 < a ~ o 13 fa) « < z 14 aire) TA Lt 1d ° - 19 2 co) R Loan 3 Zo fa c i 21 ca faa & Fy 22 wa = 2a oO 2 a to z £4 Fe o @ 25 | | | | | | | WW 50955 Docld: 322034 The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there ind 4 SECRIT 55 | i Q Which of these activities, if any of them were | : i actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami? | i i A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably. counterintelligence. Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence | activities in the Miami area? A Yes, Sir. Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter- | intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting ! in that area or was conducting in the area at that time? A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as I! recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent tha came in by small boat and when she was -- she came in witn a a ee el Cee mene f : . number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a reccp- tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation. we did, too. Our people from the DDO; | i. | When thel _ ai me preliminary interrogation of these people they had to fili out forms, where were you born, this type of thing, biogravhic+ type thing. These forms would be passed to our people who would look at the forms and based on previous experience or what | they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they | | might have some information of intelligence value, they would | . t reinterrogate them. 51 Page 58 ,
HW 450945 Prone (Area 202) 544-6006 ny cn “2 WARD & PAUL } ww 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 aw »O 25 Docld: 32703 eo — SECR fv T 56 It was in this manner that this gal came to our knowledye. We surveilled her for a long time and determined ‘ that obviously she was receiving messages and she was | sending messages. Soa along with the Bureau we put a surveillan- ‘on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that was oen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved in. | Q. Were there many activities of that type? A. Not really. You have got to remember that the Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a larce squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some- thing Like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty reda- tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from -- in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reportin? toxCase Officers and they would report on things in the community, of people they thought were suspect and this type of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved in CI activity. Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in C!
* flg mbh “ 53 APTERNOON SESSTOU Thereupon, WILLIA'! C. STURBITTS, Pisone (Ares 202) 544-6000 called as a witness bv Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities, and naving been first dulv sworn by the Notary oy ; Public, was examined and testified as follows: “ os EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd) i o BY MR. MANFRERT: | ' © | 9 : 0. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the | vid Miami Station . Do I understand that the Miami Station was the = L ' largest CIA station in the world? : a i te A The largest CIA station in the world. | 2 care o j 3 i . . { a i 0. At its height? : é 13a 4 : a ii . . & te A. Nothing comes anyplace close. to it. | ; 0 I wonder if vou could describe brieflv for the record: a a i aan a | a ; what the Jwere. A, Well, the were Cuban a Cuban intellidqence i} organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the ' overall contingency vlan that US Government had. Should Castro Ve | 3 _ 8 ever be overthrown, these neonle would be the nucleus to qo intr: | Cuba and form a new Ministry of the Interior. 214 ; i 0. Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism 22" . for Security Agency? A. Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of PD ce Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and 410 First Sircet, $.6., Washington, O.C. ec il ye) il NY WY 50955 | Docld: 32203851 Page 61 Pe oe SO, SE
i i 9 S2CVrzyT @ ' Ssos 59 3 0. And these neonle ware Cuban exiles? 2 aa A, .Cuban oniles. Ps : _. : g ar a How larqe an outfit were the | z - RG A Well, at one time -- I can aive vou the exact figures © . but IT know it wall exceeded over 199, probably closer to -- Ee: Q. Go ahead, ° 9 jj A. Probabiv closer ta 159, something like that. 8 i d Now, would that 159 persons he included within the g } three to 599 who_made up the ‘tiami Station? e | : ll Lok A No. yl 0 That was over and ahove the versonnel of the “tiami dl . ‘ ~5 || Station? a cane : a { < . a 13! A. Right. ae Lol 1 3 < an 0. These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev?. 3 at ft . . : : i i . i an A. Right. WE11, let me -- these people really were -- ve i they were being subsidized by the Aqencv. ( ; nd) Tod a | Then we had another I . ; . ,, smaller group that did the interroqating and thev were under 3 32 it . : oS od |-- T just don't recall what it ra) i ¢ ll was. 3 oy i a “et c 1 . £ | : 4 | . ui “i 57 | =< ao! 3 i : a . 1 0 The salaries of these peonle, although paid indirectly, 2 as fi | ee i . 2 96 | were maid by the CIA? WW 509455 pocla: 32203861 Page 62
f=] >] ° 3 ° c a = e 2 Oo a e ¢ e Cc g a f a c ? r 3 s v7 ra -4 me ? i-t i) 40) WARD & PAUL oe we te Gat 410 Farsi Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 5 29 HY 4S0954 Docld: 32203851 Page 63 hr i{ 4 A That is right. 0 And was training provided then bv the Agency? : ! 0. Oh, ves. i : . « ' A, You said the smaller group of the two arouns thet marco up the| conducted the interrogations, is that correct? 0. When vou speak of interrogations, are vou referring to debriefings? A. T am referring to dehriefines of newly arrived exiles or perhaps exiles that had peen in the country whom during their time here had acquired naw information. ad ee 0. How were those -- how and where were those debriefins: 4 conducted? A Well, normally the dehriefingas were conducted at Ona Loca. : ! 0. That is the Air "ase? A. That is the old Ais Mase there but that 1s vihere i> reception center was for all the Cuban refuqees comins in. , Sometimes if there was acoing to be a lengtnv debriefing, we had: a residence which we rented and the interior was chanted into small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, Sit then ! down, under controlled conditions,and debrief then wirhour anv | interference and this tvne of thing. 0. For how lonq a neriod did these debriefings qo on? eet, ements ttt, tenn epee,
202) 444-6000 Phone (Areca WARD & PAUL FLO darst Slice’, S.E., Wastengton, 0.C. 20003 A, You Mear in terms nf vears? a A Well, I vould think that I would probably sav fron 7 about 19462, and I think the debriefings as such, of course -- : we relied principally on the airlift for the peonle comind out « . and whan the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -- cut of¢ : \ ~ | about, I quess about 1979 or '71, in that timeframe -- 8 i! 0. I see. 4 9 i A. ~~ that stonned the flow of the refugees, so we yusse io : terminated that part of the activity. {; * ° : . : . : . sat 0. Vell, in addition to debriefing refugees thit mare ar | a : .a i in in the airlift, did the smailer qroup off phave anv ather Lea : : ‘ _ | intelligence gathering functions --. . i A. No. . 0. In the community? i A. Well, I can't qive vou a real ves or no to that. : Lo : 4 ~ _ ;, the Cuban community, but we had in the orqanization -- allo tnec: _. | people were Cuban with the exception of we had what we cail an uo _. i On-Site Case Officer, who was a fulltime staff emplovee ant re | had a couple of assistants, including a secretarv. ‘These pveod.l | . : . . i were directly under his control. Though the organization as it oh | r was set oun, they hac their own chief and this type of thin, Se . | but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case S:ficter 25 | Hi 50955 Docld: 32203851 Page 64 have been used to debrief peonle within the comnunity, ~1°h _would suppose that there 1s an outside vnossibility thes -x:1!
25 cE eee e a Nm 2! Of sourse, if these people went out and did something on 9 , their oun, they could do things we were not aware of, obviousl~. + You can't -= you know what they are doing during their eight or . Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 ten hours that thev are going to work evervdav but once thev ve leave, we don't know what thev are up to. ‘i ., wot 0. Did they have CIA credentials? 9 ij A. No sir, because } i 3 1 i . Gt 0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these ot {! . : . . : . . gs ,- i people other than in their duties ~- in their debriefing }~ fe capacity, I should sav? t ~5 f A. No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a 5 5 - a y_) Standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelliaence a pare ane 3 | a . . Z ++ } interest or a battle, vou know, anvthing -- economic questions, 2 foe a : ,, Morale, and this type of thing. When these questions -- wher Pore) [i . i! _! these peonle were cebriefed and the debriefer wrete cn th ~ i report, it would be sent from the over to the Sririo. an an h _, {| If the debriefing report contained something of nos ttive Ho, . ea: _, f intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- wall, not the ” a7 e i Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or mav not jot £9 down some additional requirements and ask that that person he recontacted and asked snecific questions. @ G10 First Sricet, $.€., Wasmingten, O.C. i: 0 Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did this Zo. 3 ; smaller broup of Jao for the Agencv in the Miami area? an A, This was their prime purnose, 25 | HW 50955 Docld:327703851 Page 645
HW 450955 So Cc S - aed A= ¢ = = 1 coy ° bo] fa < 4 é @ , : on a a ' I aos : GG , : a4 ca Di 4 et « 4 a if yz et a ae 3 i z . < an 3 a, q ae ao kr t ae sea 't i! i} ty 4 - a2. °o a7 co] at Q ih nN eo G fe C : . it cod 4 a: ! g Oe a § a 2 eet wl ! “ 24 - wo o t @ |: 2 H Ra cdi a aaa a - H z om tf Docld: sosoadbs Page 66 sh Eig 63 0, dow larqa was that narticular qroun? a. Oh, there were only ahout, I would say at the outsice, T thin there were about five Iebriefers with the which crould he secretaries, translators, var] ‘ types. I don't think there were more than probably 1? or 15 in that aqroup, if there were that manv. M2. MANPRENT: Off the record. (O7F the record discussion) BY MR, MANFREDT: Rack on the record, 0. Before we move on to further discussion could vou brieflv cescribe for me what role the CIA nlavs in resettling Cuban enigres? { ! t A CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emiaqres. 0 What Agency is charded with that responsibility? | i A. Health, Education and Welfare. | i . | 0. Noes CIA mlav anv role in that process? a We mav assist if we are asked hnt the idea of the whot- airlift. was having relatives here for somebodv to claim vou when you came in so von vouldn't become a ward of the State of tha Government, and nornallv when these refudqees came in, thev were processed through the Center and then they had a place down on Biscavne Boulevard thev called Freedom House and this was, of course, all run by NEW, and they -- if need he and thev had to stay overnight or stav several davs, HFW would put them un anc care for them in Freedom House. support peopl. Shrictly administrative of the }
7 2 ay ep oo) hn ae sa @ aon 0 Then as soon on thev could, of course, thev would move thon a to the areas where thev wanted to resettle them, where the - |. r@latives were, this tvne of thing, and we had nothing to do Prone (Area 202) 544-6000 With that whatsoever. 0. Turning hac’: to the and to the larcer of the 2 ° two grouns, what was tne name of that cdrouv adain? - e Pe Pa a 3 0. We can call ther] for short? a ot A. Really, thev are hoth -=- the onlv reason we separatnd . Yd ns . ict the two groups was for security because we had one group housed . i over here and the smailer groun was over here. Obviously we a a i couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, soa. & Le | that is why we took che smailer establishment a oo 3 at | ae 0. Okay. What activities was the larger groun engaged _, , in? . A. WRLL, the larger sreouin was enqadqed in tr2 collection: of intelligence. They comniled dossiers on the principals inside Cuba. They carded -- thev kept card files on every @ . 2 i" . 2 « yefugee that came throuch the reception center. Thev nrovided -- 2 © they did do economic and social renorting. They put out a 2 22 Fa ‘i é ! monthiv newsletter based on the information they coliected. ; ; ; . ; ri 4 The information these neonle collected as onposed to the Or ! ' > Bred Tt t 3 ul 3? ‘ . . . ry 1 d i information we collected, therz's was all unclassified. That ; ° | came from -~ all the information thev had came from human source: 7 29 HW 450955 Docld: 32203451 Page 67 ee ‘
: 8 me : ec oina * sa “a Sumscribed -- well, the pronmrietary -* { * or overt publicaticns. : Subscribed to a nuriber, a qreat manv newsnaners, periodicals i | Spanish languaqe tyne thines. Phone {Area 202) 544-1000 fi 0. Well, taeyv were doing clandestine collections as weli,, i weren't thev? gal who might be the dauqhter of a Cuban refuqee who just won * A. I dontt xnow if vou could call it clandestine. what + did you have in mind? ut nN ; 0. Well, would thev run agents in the cormunitvyv? ; i A. Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban i; ° , goal . ; communitv, yes. - , i he | ; | 0 And that is clanfestine collection, isn't it? ae + e | A. WELI, I call that human resources. 3 i 0. All right. Where are these. files now? < : * ya tt deb : 2 : Hl A They are in the Headquarters here. A great mary of i 3 ““ | them were really destroved. It got to be rather comic. We Hl \ ~* i went down there several vears aqo just looking through the fiien “"“ fh to see what kind of shape thev were in and thev had such arent - a information for intellinence value in there as a picture o: 23 ii ti tj | i, a Swimming meet. Th got rather ridiculous. So we purds! those - co] Oo Qa N . yu i files and took out that material, von know, which just ‘lidr'? c > ! g -- Il oO . a a H S ~*~ j have anv pertinancy at all. a CS + ° + . 7 ' Ed ae | 0 How are the files orqanized? You indicated hefore that ui i “ O% iF : . eG 3 ee jthere is a card, incdiex card for each Cuban refugee? a : . = [ a ag | : Z ar A. Right. * aaa 0. Are there soft cover files as well? i HWY 350955 DBDocld:32203951 Page 63 Cr FR LEP ‘ i
eat thy reflected here in Washin things these neonle ao, 66 in the milli-ns and I forqet, probabiv went into the tens wav to determine from those files fae stan can go to. go to but it is not curren: LS a possibilitv thar occu: Turban s owls individuals involved? fone 3 S A Yes. = , = © 0. For eacn Cuban refudes? - 3 : : - ‘A. No. Nec for each Cuban refucee. E z recall, those card files were up s : We had I quess the manilla flies, GG of thousands, I woulda think. Xu \ y 0. Now, is there any ii . ~ - 4 : : ae e # which of those exiies have hecome United States citizens? 6 i: : A gh A No way._ ° ot i aed 0. Has there been anv effort to make such a determina- & - i tion? ~ et tr | : se tl A. We made an effort at one time but this -- vou can < ‘i ° ‘ : . : a >. % become nationalized out in California and vour recerd of a BS, < ;. =" nationalization wouldn't be 2 aes 4 .. #} two years. That is how far thev are behind. . 0 So I take it -- ae A So there is no ce.tsal index vou .. | there is a central index vou can i te 0. I take it, then, that there Py a .. : CIA has some files in “Miari or here in Lanalev on a) an fa) ii : ae ra ., . are now American citizens? fe myo : S we = it F: me 4 A. Absolutely true. “ a! 0. Now, are anv of those files likely to contain z a3 a _. 4 derogatory information about the Fa ot | 2 sah A Well, no. One of the zg wel Docld: 32203851 HY 4S0954 Page 69
5 LO sal o . f SECRset 67 Cc 8 course, we had tavcets For recruitment. It could range fran = sj anythin: from a first mate, a captain or chief endineer of a 2 : . ; c, ty t g 5 Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people | é as vossihle recruitments, for possible recrtuitment,we would ask | z : that al’ the information on that individual be assemhled so that . We coule doa complete target study -- habits, you know, ° ‘ oO +. everything right dowm the line. In case of some of the more. Sok ; ‘ = ; important ones, of course, we had nsvchological studies prepares ci ; if ' ; | Where we had enough information. But this is one of the things ‘ | 5 i these people did. I£ we said we want everything vou have on the aa .- | first mate of the -- one of the Cuban ships, then ther would ; ,~ } Start looking through the papers or anything else to come up nae ,. i with anvthing thev could on what the guy's current activities a foo: z .. : are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing. z Bey 4 0. Well, the were going to be the intellicence 2 7 , service of Cuba? Son A. Right. 7 ‘ 0. And thev obviously were going to perform some function _. in addition to recruitment of aqents? ° Tog ; ° a . ° od A Right. 3 Z.o4 : c , ; . . . = 4 0. I take it thev were trained in counterintelligence, 4 ssa! . - 5 gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the “ _ 4 traditional skills, is that correct? rr A, That is ahout ridht,. 3 ee! 2 0. So I trust that they had files that were amassed for | Of WW 50955 Bacld: a:32203061 Page 707
£ HW 50955° D st SECRET 68 E 1 i burposes other than recruitment? ; 2 A. Well -- ey t : 3 0. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these | 3 é files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible | 5 | internal security problem? 6 | A. No. No. They didn't keep those types of files. We | "7 would simply task them with through your sources what do you | 8 have on so and so. They would not be told the reason why we . 9 | wanted the information on anybody. | Lo | Qa Well, I guess with several million fiels or several | ll million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to ; 12 make generalizations about the kind of information that is in 13 those files? 14 A Well, that is right. 15 0 So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to ash 16 you this. I trust thet there is the possibility that some of | i” | these files do contain what you in the trade refer to as deroga- a tory information? . 19 A. I would assume so. | . 3 20 Q And that so much of them may -~- some of the subjects : 21 of those files mav now he American citizens? | i | A Right. . | 3 22 ! u 93 0. And finally I take it that no effort has been made to. : 4 | study that particular situation? ; orld: 322038 1 Page Ti oo - a / ee. 8
+? SECRET | 69 8 1 You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel, S- 2 | whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their | g 3 hames turn up on manifests and this type of thing. Well, these | z a f are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards 5 ! were all transferred hack here in Miami, we did go through them \ ; . 6 | at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with ‘ 1 7 what the machine svstem had to see if there was updated informa- 8 | tion in the machine system that would show that this quy had ; 9 become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So -- ; @ 10 0. Excuse me, off the record. | 11 (Off the record discussion) | 12 MR. MANFREDI: | Back on the record. a os] 2 13 BY MR, MANFREDI: % ! f é 14 | 0 I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind 2 . 15 | Where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are | 16 - presently here in Washington? | { i 19 A The cards and what is left of the files, ; 18 Q That is the soft cover files? | A Yes. | Los 19 |i o ° q 0 And -- | 1 3 20 a . . é 21 A. I assume they are either here or down at the - | 2. ' € Records Center. z 22 3 23 0. And where is the comnuter svstem? - 4 24 A. You mean our machine system? We have -- NW 50955 #oclda: 32203851 Page 72 ~..
WW 50955 Pnone (Are; 202) 644-G000 WARD & PAUL i Sireet, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 Dobld: 32 | to 16 ll 12 13 14 16 L? 18 19 20 | 21 22 Pe) | | 13 | BeCRST 70 3 che “bs o* information on the cards? A Right down on the third floor. 0. That is not t*e hydro svstem? A. Oh, no, no. ! Q This is a separate -- : A. This is a complete -- only the Latin American Division uses this particular system. 0. What kind of records -- strike that. The! _ fare still in existence, aren't thev? i A. No. i a) tT thought thev vere going out in June. | A Well, okav. Thev are on the hooks until June. | | 0 I see. A But they have all been let qo. They were let qo -- they were all given six months termination honuses and told to go find a job. ca No they have anv facilities, physical facilities, in | Miami at this time? A, no. | 0 So there are no records in Miami? | A. No. No. We bhroncht all those records hack here, Q. Did the have law enforcement responsibilities | in the Miami community? A. No. No. raha 1 Page 73
pa Several : | 71, E 2 | A, Nok to my ‘vnowledqe. g 2 ' ‘el What else did thev do, this larger qroup off that z 5 | was not doing debriefings? | = s “4 B Well, when they were trained in trade craft we woul? ; 5 send them to other countries, in Europe and within the itemi sphere 6 to train some of the local services in those countries. Thev \ 7 served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in. 8 listening posts where we had audio -- : @ ; 9 | . oO Foreign listening posts? oS 10 | A. Oh, ves, foreign. | al 0. Any domestic listening posts? ; 12 | A ©6©6—0UC«WNN, sono. | 2 : i ; | a Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these peaple? | : 14 | A. I would assume -- this I cannot answer hecause ° rents | don't know. I know that they did a great number of thinis tine 16 | my knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance i, | conducted by them, . 18 Now, if it was conducted, and 1f it is a matter of recor’, | . 19 I don't know where it could be. 8 20 es What intelligence gathering activities did thev J : 21 conduct in the Cuban community in Miami? : 29 A. One of the big problems we had was within that Cuban z ui 93 communitv, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti- HW 50955. vonrasa220%0 Cap tno ggroups and this just drove the FBI and the Coast Guard
be ra) Prone (Area 209) $44-0000 WARO & PAUL fed GW al 22 235 t Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 < % 24 HW 50955 BdGcld: 322703551 Page 75 know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on -gerved any time or not I don't know... I know he was convicted SECRET | 72 : agencies in Miani plus the State government enforcement agencies & up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around -- the Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I quess about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and thev i I i H | of started to tighten up.: ! \ I am sure thef | were in part responsible for proposing t alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when, there was going to be a raid against Cuba hy one of these militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked up by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau, this type of thing. 0 These people were arrested? A. Oh, ves. 0 Prosecuted? A Not reallv, 0. Anv of them American citizens? A, Not to mv knowledge. 0 This would be Alpha 66 tvpe groups? A. I don't know whether this quy -- well, you know, they : are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don’t \ q . : { so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here. | 1 He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever : i { | = 1a ° . _ re on
@ HW 50955 é a 6 | 7 | 8 | Sg | 1¢ | li ; 12 | 3 < | & 1é {I re ‘| Pa rT -$ 14 1! I 75h | | 14 | | 17 | ar | 18 | . 19 | . 20 | c 3 22 | ba { , i < 23 i | cra-sual a's bie f | ° I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went to jaul or nok. a Other than identifying operations by militant anti- Castro groups, wnat other intelligence gathering did the | o in? engage in: , A Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence -- I wouldn't call ita project but a counterintelligence interest at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents.' 0 Cubans were? A The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't -- well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did trv to identify those people whom we thought would be suspect. 0. Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau? A With the Bureau, ves. a Because of their manpower limitations you folks were in a better position to do it? A. Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big factor. | 0 “and this was conducted through the A. Yes. Q How substantial was the counterintelligence operation in the community? Page 76
| 16 SECRET . co 1 ; 3 7 ; would call a great number of suspect infiltrees, but thev tid | = > | come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to tho 2 te eC. H é F : é z Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever hanpens 2 i € iF 2 4 | to it because, vou know, vou just ~- unless vou personally know 5 i the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, vou might as i | ; é well forget it. You have qot too many other things to do. ‘ 9 i 0. What other positive intelligence gathering activities li { i 8 | were they engacing in? | 7 9 | A, Well, as I told vou, one part of them were engased in) | | | : @ 19 | | | 0, Where was that done? | | A, wh in Florda, ; 12 Down 1 orda 2 . a 0. This is Southeast of| 2 13 ; : | : | A Yes. t 15 i 0. What ere thev 16 A Well, originally they were set up to assist with the . | | commo. for the infiltration. ; " | 4 As we phased down the maritime activities, thev were nadc | available to | 19 4 ; = such as the border guards. Another 20 al 22 sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards, | 23 treet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 network they covered too. | Wi WW 50955 Doéla:322048
t ou | S8ERET TR g 1 | Now, since thev pelong to us we could levy ceratin require : 2 : ments on them if we wantee to, which we did very infrequently | a i : 5 | because the common interests, ~~ we have a common interest in 3 4 what( has an interest in and unless there were one articular , 5 ! operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the cubas 6 | were doing, then we would task our people with that. | ‘ 9 For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into | : 8 | Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then | . 9 | there was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing WAS. ® 10 | But we knew arms were being loaded and we finallv located the | li | boat in an African port, I mean the | ; 12 — back on the air. And this is the type of thing. As : : a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 299 | | | | < 14 | Cuban troops. : 5 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. 7 | 16 (Off the record discussion) | MR. MANFREDI: Let's qo back on the record. BY MR. MANFREDT: n, Were the| | | exclusively foreign A. Exclusively foreign , | Q Were tney j one terminu el 1 22 of which was the United States? 23 Street, §.£., Wasnington, 0.C. 20003 A, No. 1 Page 78 HW 50955 Doola: 322%
SECRET " 5 " h. Right. es - 5 0 On the Island? é ! A Right. 2 | 0. Or between the Island and other locations? o a & : 4 A, Yes. = | | 0. But not between the Island and the United States? 6 2: i A No. Let's go off the record on that. (Off the record discussion) 8 ; | BY MR. MANFREDI: 9 jj 0. To vour knowledge were the| |engaging in the 1c jp | ,or else | where, in the Miami area or in the southern part of the country? 12 5 A. No. < . a ad é 135 aC, a 0. Of other gconmunvc. < LZ! I A No. 3 i 0 Is that their only Ginvemeent) facility? 14 | A. (Nods affirmative) | | Q Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- a¢rite Te | that. No you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, Surveillances, 8 a breakins or activities of that type other than what ve have Oo G discussed -« S 2: | A. No sir. B oo | z | ~~ that were conducted bv thel | ‘ 23 | 3 | A No sir. I want to qo off the record a minute. HW 50955 DobTd:322038b1 Page\(G6f the record discussion)
“ ecm am Tote E 77 SaCheT g ; i BY MR. MANFREDI: | + md . ! = 6 ‘ 0. I understand that a study of the history of the | g _ has been prepared by one of vour members. q a | € i 5 i A. That is right. ; | 4 0. What is his name? . 5 é i A. I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the last 4 i name. The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just have yd i H . 1 to get that for vou. | ° O What is the title of the study? 9 3 @ | A. The title of the study -- it is part of the historicai i series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The Lid brganization." . | ; 12 | | | < a. What is the historical series of the Miami Station? é 13 ! 3 14 Il ; | we try to do as we go alona, from vear to vear, is set aside ye t . . i what is considered to he some of the more siginificant things 16 . the station might do or that might occur in the station personae. 17 3 ; | . a . . H wise, this tvme of thing, and then these things are written. 12 | ; 0. I see. ; 19 | 3 I A. At intervening periods of time. 6 | 0. When was this particular report prepared! | g | A. I think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68. 5 22 | ul — O. It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it? 2 A. Yes. ns) . i 3 24 i 1955 Dobld:32203881 Page. 80 . . oe a en
SECRET | 7 i | 8 2 activities of rey = © oO 8 It starts back in 1959 when we first started using | a) . . ; | é 3 ; this gent... 2 é 7 Q Pirst started using what? ! 5 A, First started using, I forget what his name was. 1 ~ 6 : a I see. Is it a chronological studv of their activi- | ; gq © ties? i 8 " A Yes. - | | | o | a And you have a copy of that in your custody? | A Y | , i| . es. | @ | 10 | 1? et I would like to see that document. And we will try | 12 i and obtain it through Hank Knoche's office. . " ; “ | A 12 i A. Okav. < Le | Q Excuse me just for a minute. | “i ; ved (Off the record discussion) prema : 4 val MR. MANFRENI: On the record. ° | “ol | _ BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if you would -- let me ask vou | afl ff H : 1s _ this, There have been some allegations in the press that | 14 | prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents | 8 3 of the CIA. G eC | ° i Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join! 8 el ; | é 5 i us because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the 3 zi : a . . . . “i Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the things é 5 | had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn 3 4 | HW 450955 Dood: 32203 51. -Page.8b wo. 22 an Ree n we BA im Be och meen bien A ne
, SECRET | 7 MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, George. S a 3 Lod é fi BY MR. OLSEN: cs i ° i 0. *~Can you begin, since I have not been in on the begin- - g | ning of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts, ll by giving me ahout a one or two minute resume of what your ° 5! - “oot . : : ‘ | contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere 6 ‘ i withing this country on behalf of the Agencv? A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff 8 i | which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and th: 9 @ Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in ro oy, | | a variety of intelligence collection and operations. Ll . ag Q Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff? . ' ; 12 | . 2 A Desmond Fitzgerald. fa , @ And who was his immediate superior? 5 lal , A Dick Bissell. Excuse me. No. At that time it was 5 | ““ i Dick Helms. He was the DEP. 16 0 Deputy Director for Plans? 17 ' | A Deptuty Director for Plans. a | 15 | 0. What period of time are we talking about now? 3 19 | A. We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965. 3 5 20 G MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. g ; 2 el (Off the record discussion) = ne BY MR. OLSEN: a Bs 3 a So you were not involved in this Special Activities 5 HW 50955 soctacaonedéel PagearBBurindg the 1959 to '61 neriod?
t i S : 0 Or the neriod leading up to the Bav of Pigs? ¢ 1 i Z A. No. | 3 H 0. And you were not involved in this program at all durin é S| 2 | the Same time that F. Howard Hunt was involved in it? a 4 t . | ‘i A. No. e! i 0. Do you know what the position was Mr. Hunt occupied in 6 ; i connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the ‘ 7 yo | period of 1959 to ‘61? Hl A To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert i " 9 | | Action Staff dealing in propaganda. 6 1G | - ; | 0 Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in at | i this country? a 12 | 2 A No. Cuban people abroad. | a 4 13 | | , , . a | Q And what was his connection with the planning for the | x $ 144 | ! | Bay of Pigs? 16 | i | A, I would have to review the record to really answer 16 that. I don’t know. 19 || . Q Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami i } 12 | ~~ | area? . | 8 19 i A. He commuted quite a bit. 2 | g 20 | 0. Between Washington and -- ; 2 A Washington and Miami. 6 .: | 2 1 = ee 0 -- and Miami. Nuring the period of 1969 and early Ww | | g es | 61? Fe Hi + = oa | . | HW 50955 Bocld:32203651 Paget a3 Right.
| RIOT 81 Sze Pew g - . , published materials that he was the person who was in charge of : © organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which i e would constitute the Cuban cqovernment in exile. Do you recall e q 8 £ where that was? \ 5 A That could be quite true. ; . 6 0. Have you reviewed, Mr, Sturbitts, the Agency's entire ‘ 9 files relating in any wav to the Cuban operations and particu-" 8 larly with reference to whether they reflect any contacts t : 9 between the Agency and [rank Sturgis? 10! A. Yes. " 0 Or Frank Fiorini? ; 12 | A. There is no relationship. i ‘ 1! Q@ Is it vour testimony that the records and files of 14) the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any _ nature with Frank Sturgis? i A To my knowledge that is true. | 0 I take it from that that you are emphatic in your . 13 ¢ testimony that he was never an employee of the Agency? ; 19 | A | Extremely emphatic. 8 50 | Q And you are also equally emphatic to the effect that J : | he was never a contract aqent of the Agency? 2 E | A. “Exactly. 3 22 } 4 os | 0. Do you know whether he ever served in the capacity : | of being an informer or informant to the Agency? WW 50955 pogra:32203041 Page 34 sow . . ° a 4 eoL le 4 2 ee ee eRe ee metemnnnens e ee nee F e
oS ce} e a € a 2 S co 2 ~ < s) 2 6 é 4 5 a 6 6 ° 8 9 @ 16 Lil 4 12 2 2 é 13 a x ¢ “OA 2 Lt 15 16 17 18 a 19 o Qo g G 20 a ‘¢ 3 21 : E Fs 22 a Ww “ 235 wy ied a HW 50955 Dodla: 322038 | | i | ! 4 | veal Page 65 SECRET ” iD YOu mean a source of -- A. Source of information of another agent. Another agency agent. 0 Mo the files of the Agency reflect anv matter? A To my knowledae I don't recall anvthing like that but | it is entirely possihle that that could have happened without being a matter of record. 0. Do the-files of the Agency reveal any instance what- ever in which Frank Sturqis vas ever asked to undertake anv kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Aqencv? A. To mv knowledge, nothing. 0. Do the files of the Agencv reveal anv evidence whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or indirectly bv the Agency? A. To mv knowledge, no. Q Now, when vou sav “to my knowledge, no", in answer to some of these cuestions, do I understand that to mean that you are giving us the full benefit of your knowledge on the basis of a full review of the Agency's records and files? A On Frank Sturgis, ves. 0. Okav. During the period of time that you were with the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all, can you tell us when that began in 1963? A When the Special Activities Group -- a & a he me Comm mt nF Rim a toes mF Be ee cece we ee ee nee meee cee
SECRET 83 8 i" Group began? z ‘ 5 2 A It began -- well, it becan around June of '63, é 5 0. Now, with particular reference to the last half of 8 A 1963, including whatever neriod in June '63 mav not have been 5 ' involved, were there a qreat manv Cubans in the southern United | 6 || States who were active in revolutionarv fronts that were beina ‘ "9 | sponsored by the Agency? 8 A. Wellm vou mean Aqgqencv sponsored fronts? 9 | oO Yes. " to! AL The Agency subsidized these fronts in an effort to 11 | have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castr> ; 12 | factions. Obviouslv the leaders of the fronts knew that the 13 || CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these : 14 | fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Aqenac as, | or the U.S. Government. 16 Qa But when vou sav “supnosedly," does the fact annear 19 | to be otherwise? 18 A. WE11, based on mv experience with the Cubans and this . 19 | Pe oF thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that : 99 || it wouldn't take long for knowledge of any subsidy to surface 5 a itself. | : 20 | 0. Was it your oninion and impression at that time, ‘tr. “ a Sturbitts, that a great many Cubans considered themselves to be 24 involved in the CIA orqanizations? HW 50955 Daecld:32703651 Page 86 ..__
: SECRET 0 { | { t ‘ ‘ g \ | 8 x 3 0. And again with particular reference to the Miami 3 9 4 area? a ii z 5 : A. Yes. { z A i 0. Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere 5, - in the United States? I am asking now particularly with r | g ji reference to New Orleans. ‘ ‘] A. There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am ‘ tas . . . 8 } really not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was | 9 | sort of a sideshow to Miami. i ‘ i vo | Q But the same is -- it is possible that some of the | h | . . . . | 14 same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded } 12 by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans? ' a ! 2 ul ' a 13k A. I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had g wv AI . : a \ & 14 i the same functions. I know that some funding arrangement for } : a4 subsidizing the orqanizations in Miami was carried out through we i! rg || New Orleans. an 0 Well, can you he more specific about what vou mean aw f | Qo: _ fi by that? id ie to! A Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we 3 3 oo | were subsidizing there had to he some ostensible source of ° 51 | income for them to continue what they were doing. A great a y 4 ~ a ™ 4 3 FE a ~~ well, not a great number, but a number of select z : J 4 ‘ ns | People were -~- well, they were selected and then thev were ; | 3 i| : & o4 || tatked to, to pose as trustees, if you would, or directors or HW 50955 Dacld:32203 Sivh Pieper el? yon midqht have nf enma nf thaca arnanigvatians in ardear |
a BAY i a us a B >< to get the funding throuqh to the organizations. = a 5 These peonpla ware normally prominent peonle and -- | 3 " ay And did thev gat funded by the Agency, then, through | — ra . Z ‘ 1. . 2 , | the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do neople? a : nl A. These well-to-do people ostensibly would call a friend. ~ " : i . 6 of theirs that had heen made trustee of another type of activity’ ‘ 9 : and sav, vou know, we are trying to assist these Cubans in this | Ht ' t 8 i type of thing. Could vour organization give us any money, and | i i a | the guy on the other end would say, sure, we can probably lend | ic | you $25,990 or something like that, or donate $25,900. This is: Wo ‘ i 1} | the wav the funding went into the fronts. tI _ | ae 0. And was some of that funding arranged through veonle | } | @ i in New Orleans? 2 13 4 Q & 14 fi A. I would think so. I helieve’ co. z ao | 24 0 Were anv of the people in New Orleans throudh whon ; 130 _ | that funding operation was effected people who turned ont to be: ae) | ; - \ . involved in the investigations conducted by Jim Garrison? 7 ‘ . ' | - A, Not to my knowledge. 13 | il . . . 1 0. How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with 19 j o ade : : 8 | the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance rs} 20 ; i ° | to Cubans or Cuban groups? ; . @ Z | A, I couldn't sav. JI am just not familiar with -- we had ; 2 £2 “ | 2 great many people that did this. z aan 5 | 0, How about Clav Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a 3 24 HW 50955 Dodld: 322033591. Page 36
IAD OT SECRET 86 a . . g L A This I do not know either. = S ; 0. Pardon? t & i & jl A, This I don't know. g i Z 2 i BY MR. MANFRENI: i 5 Q Where would that information he available? - 6 ‘ A. Well, we have a vuv that used to work with me who was ‘ 7 i down in New Orleans at that time. He would prohablyv know. 3 0 Is he in the building? t 9 | A Yes. i . | 4] ; ? > Wo 0. What is his name? ij | a | 4 le | | | . 13 A. Yes. ; Y MR. LSE: . ' < 14 B at Ons | “5 ! Q. Who is| With now? Which department? . 16 | A He is still with the DDO. ~~ | \ 19 | BY MR. MANFREDI: “il 13 | 0 Western Hemisphere Nivision? 19 | A No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -~- T a 17 | 8 30 | think Career Management Group Staff. u a . E 2) 0. Is he officed near vou? 8 My fou) 1 § A. No. He is down in the basement. 4 BY MR. OLSEN: a aa | Q Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were HW 50955 poera: 32203540 Page 39 oe
HW 50955 D ae) 4 Poone (Arca 202) 644-6000 to. ay cst WARD & PAUL he OK m ret Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 24 SEC eT 87 A On, ves. : 0. -- to the Cuban movements? . | A, Yes. 0. No vou know whehter -- do you knov the identity of anv of them in New Orleans? ; A No. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took place in New Orleans. 0 I take -it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediar:: i for providing funds to the Cuban fronts? A The files that I have don't reflect it. 0 I think we covered this already just a few minutes aga ! but let me make sure that we have got it on the record. : I understood vou to say that it was your impression in 1963 that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban people in the southern United States, talked about and believed that thev were involye in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? : A That is right. 7 Q Was it also vour understanding and your impression that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in the southern United States about plans or prospects for the assassination of Fidel Castro? ‘ A. I would say no. I don't think there was -- you have got to remember that these people were embittered. Thev lost their homeland, their nossessions, thev lost everything and the- oold: 32203861. «Pages 98. ..5 0 2.0 1..
@ , HW 450945 Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 il 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 LS 16 17 18 19 - 20 al 82 29 + Street, §.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 24 410OF.: 25 Docld: 32203651 Page 91 SECRET | gs Q That is Fiedl Castro? A That is right, and they would probably verbally do “anything they could to get rid of him. 0. Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among these Cubans? A. I would say among the Cuban exiles there prohably was. a lot of talk about that. 0. Did you participate vourself in the overhearing of such conversations? A. No. 0. Was this a-matter of something that was reported to you? A Well, it was -=- I really don’t remember what the i 4 ' source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at tha Station and from my visits down there and that type of thing that this subject always came up. What were they going to do with Fidel? How are they going to get rid of him and this type of thing. I don't mean the Agency people. This is what the Cuban exile community was discussing. Qa Yes. Do you.know what Howard Hunt was doing for the > ‘Agency in 1963? A. Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in ‘63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of tte Q. This is your best recollection -- | SECRET
8 . 8 1 5 6 7 ‘ 8 . 9 10 ® un | 12 2 e ( : 13 8 & . 3 14 15 16 17 18 « -19 5 20 a 8 21 5 22 < 23 : { 3 24 ‘ = 2 3 25 HW 50955 Docld: 32203 st a Ee SECRET 89 A, Yes. 0 _ at the moment. Is it possible that he was with Domestic Operations Division in the field of| | engaged -- A. I guess you are right, yes. I believe he was there. 0 Did you personally know Howard Hunt? \ A No. 0. Never met him? A, Iomet him. That is all. I can't say I know him. Qa You would not have known anything about his where- abouts on any particular day, then. Is that true? A. Can we go off the record? (Off the record discussion.) THE WITNESS: Let's go back on the record. BY MR. OLSEN: Q I would like to have it on the record. A. “Do you have a particular day? 0 No. I am just asking you if your acquanitance with Hunt was such that you would have known of his whereabouts on any particular dav. A. No. 0 Was it very infrequently that you ever saw him? A ‘Oh, I would see him in the halls, this type of thing, but -- bump into him perhaps downtown on the street. 0 But vou would have no occasion for knowing from one 1 Page 92
HW 450955 Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 11 “12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 19 20 21 22 25 24 ‘410 First Street, $.E., Washington, O.C. 20003 20 Docld: 32203 | , day to the next where he was? SECRET 90 A. No. 0. Have you ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf ! of the Agency as to where he was on November 22, 1963? A. Yes. 0. And when did you conduct that inquiry? + A. I have done it twice that I recall and the most recent one was I guess -- I am just trying to think. Well, it wasn't too long ago because we did have an inquiry and we obtained the { time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which | | | showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day. | Q Was this just fairly recently? . it i A. Yes. Q I understood from what files I have seen, Mr. , | Sturbitts, that the onlv records that were available from the Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave during the two-week pay period ending the 23rd of November but that the records were not available as to how much sick leave or annual leave had been taken on any particular day. A. Well -- 0. Am I mistaken? A As I recall, he was in a duty status one day and a sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day. I would have to check that with my Budget and Fiscal Officer. He is the chap that got that for me..
SECRET 91 } | | 0. Can vou check that for us? | | | 6 ; 8 L ( 2 2 i A. Sure, = | 2 3 i © . And give us the results of that? — j . : 2 i g a | A. Yes. f 5 f 0. Because this is much more detailed information than | I have been previouly aware is available in the files of the . 6 n | Agency. | i 8 i A All right. I will do that. 6 , - 9 BY MR. MANFREDI: 10 | 0. Do you want to make a note of that? 11 A. Let me have a niece of paper. 12 0. YOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts' phone number which | a t 2 : < : . - ; ( . 13 | 28 351-5106. o = 14 | THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right? z BY MR. MANFREDI: 15 That is the day. ; 16 | Q y i A. 1963. 17 | 18 | rat In response to whose inquiry was that investigation ' made? n 19 Qo . i. ' 8 0 | A. I don't know. I would have to look that up, too. I | Q : don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether -- 9 el . & I will just have to check that. I don't know who it was. | z 22 | . : | ‘ | Q And the date? Do vou have anv idea when you made the i. 23, : - inquiry? ( 24 as A. No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefullyi a 25 HW 450955 swcacaponade Page 94 SP APF ae
tet HW 50955 416 First Street, $.E., Wasmington, D.C. 20003 Phone {Area 202) 544-6000 190 Ll 12 WARD & PAUL re CA 160 17 18 19 20 21 22 25 24 25 SECRET 92 Q You said there was a previous inquiry? : A Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt ; who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of | European Division. 0. When was that inquiry received? A. That was about a vear ago, I guess. BY MR. OLSEN: 0: About the first time these photographs began to be | circulated? ; A Yes. 0. About the bums in Dallas? A. Yes, and actually I think this -- Archie's inquirv came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe. Archie was for a long time and he apparently made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media. Q This is something you are relating to Der Sterm Magazine? , A. That is right. 0. And did I understand you to say thqt in checking with | i ! | the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that | Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd? | A. Well, I will have to check that. That is the way I understood it but I did get this through our Budget people whol have the contact with the Office of Finance. 0. And that he was on annual leave the day before? Bocld: 322703851 Page 95 . oS GO gm Fe, whee
SECRET 93 | | ; g L | A. No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick | ¢ i 2 2 leave, and then on duty status the following day. : 5 | BY MR. MANFREDI: | oy u : 3 4 0. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's | 5 previous pattern with respect to sick days had peen? oO 6 A (Nods in negative) 4 7 7 BY MR. OLSEN: 8 0. November 22, 1963, was a Friday. When you say that 9 , records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day -- 10 A. It was a Friday. Then I was mistaken. 1 ‘ Qa Does that mean he was on duty the following Monday ; 12 or on the next day, Saturday? { é 13 | A No. On the following Monday. I didn't realize the. 14 | 22nd was a Friday. : 15 Q Will you check that thing for us and give us a hrie€ 16 memo together with whatever supporting ~~ copies of supporting 19 documents you can find? 18 A. Okay. ; 19 | Q As promptly as possible on this question. 8 | I think that covers the subject matter. Gb 20 : 2) MR. MANFREDI: I can give vou another moment if you want. : 22 | Can you think of anything else? : 3 | MR. OLSEN: I think that is all. ( : 24 MR. MANFREDI: Okay. Off the record, = 05 (Off the record discussion) WW 50955 Docld: 322038 1 Page 96 aie cet ty ee, CN
SECRET 94 | i \ | | rn) , . j 8 1 i BY MR. MANFREDI: Py) if .- . : { S 2 H 0. Iam sorry for the interruption but over the long hauli : 5 I think probably I saved vou some time. z A, We are talking about newspaper editors when we were inter- - 5 | rupted -- or when I invited the interruntion. I guess I-ought 6 : to be fair. { 9 ‘i Is it not a fact that the Aqencv had some relationship with i LO. a . | 8 | some prominent newspaper officials in the Miami area? : : i : 10 | Q@ . And what was the nature of that relationship? | LL | A. i 4 12 2 = { : 13 Q = 3 14 L5 __ _ 16 | 0. What was the purpose of those relationships? | , ! fo 19 ] A, I really couldn't say what the prupose of the relatior- "| | ship was. I mean, the same reason that we establish a relatior- 18 | ; \ | | 19 | ship with the press in this town. There were certain things thax g ; | might come to the attention of the press involving true names ; 26 | - | OQ a - ¢ 27 and incidents that we felt should perhaps not be surfaced at any, § articular time. 3 22 4 © , | : i 3 93 | Q Do you have any knowledge of use of the press-in Miani a 24 for propaganda purposes? t g 25 A No. No. | BW 50955 DoeId: 322703651 Bage 97 SECRET
o 8 1 { = 2 & 5 5 6 9 8 9 16 11 ; 12 3 A { 3 13 Fa) = . ; 14 15 16 17 18 = 19 , 20 a 8 21 3 22 : 23 ( 3 24 re 3 25 WY 50955 Docld: 32203 [ ____keceivea probably a little more attention SECRET 95 Q Would vou know if that were the case? A No. I really wouldn't know, but the relationship was a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these people as well as they were assigint us. Q What assistance would you render for members of the press in Miami? ‘ A Well, in the case of (Ge |. we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of areas he periodically visited and the Chiefs of Stations would give him background briefings and this type of thing on the developments within a given country. Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers? A Predominantly, I would say probably Q Was he also used as a source? A No. Q- Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive similar briefings? A | Yes. Q We talked with Mr.Olsen for a short period of time about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these organizations? 1 Page 98 | GetfrePr ce eps te Fie meee en ne a et ce mr ee ett
Hy SECRET a | 96 8 | . 3 i ; . ¢ | A Well, the membership varied. As I said, we were i og 2 | ® | principally interested in the leadership of the organizations. & o | ; g j Once the organization was established and the leadership took | over, then they would take care of enlisting the, I guess, 5 | | getting membership from the Cuban exile community to join. 6 | Q What were their functions, the fronts? 7 ; A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic 8 ; ‘ thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I said, it was a 9 ; political organization in exile. 10 , . . Q Did they conduct any operations? f il ° A No, not that I know-of. 4 12 : tas 3 Q Just like a political varty? fj : 13 : A Like a political party. : 14 Q How many of these fronts were there? 15 A There were several of them. I really don't remember 16 the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary 1” Democratic Front. I guess that was probably the biggest one. 18 | And there were some others. H 2 _i9 Q The RDF? 2 cj 20 A -FRD. | : Q 3 el Qo I see. 3 ee A Front Revolutionary Democratic. It is the ® - » 3 Democratic Revolutionary Front. a { E a4 Q All right. Are these groups still in existence? 2 * 25 A TY would think not. I really don't know. 50955 Docld: 32203651 Page 99 G® Gt <a Gp, Gy Gs
Phone (Area 202} 544-6000 ‘10° il 12 13 (BSioy, WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 L? 18 19 20 al 22 235 24 410 Fisst Street, S.€., Washington, 0.C. 20003 29 HW 50955 Docld: 32203 eee E>" eeeraaanernemnnnnnesnnns SS SSS EEE SECRET or 500 persons employed or assigned to the Miami Station? 97 6) Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico? | A No, There was but there isn't any more. There hasn't been one there for vars. Q When was it disbanded? A I think the station vas established around 1952 and -- perhaps it was established before that. I think it | went out of existence in 1958. 9 Do you know why it went out of existence? A No, I don't. I don't have any idea. Q Do you know what function it was performing? A - (Nods in negative.) | Q You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked in the Cuban community for the CIA? A He worked with these fronts, too. Q Was he performing any intelligence function in the community? A | Intelligence functions. Well -- Q Was he collecting information? A Sure. If he got information that he thought was worthwhile he would pass it on. | Q Now, would he have been considered one. of the three A Yes. He was a contract employee. Q And were intelligence requirements levied on such contract employees? 51 Page 100 GECRET
HW 50955 Prone (Area 202) 544-6000 LO il 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 17 18 19 "20 21 22 23 24 410 First Street, $.E., Washington, 0.C, 20003 29 cere etree tt ap a snreennnenennennarrannereertn | SECRET 8 A Normally, the requirements are pretty standard, or they were at that time. But here again, you always have ad hoc type things that pop up from time to tine, and have to be surfaced. ’ | Q “Some of these contract employees were, then, in the business of collecting intelligence information in the Cuban communities in Miami. A Right. Q Now, I think we finished with[ [bute ean you think of any other functions performed by| etna we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon? A No, not really. No. | Q I think you previously described them for me as the eyes and ears into the Cuban community. A Right. Q And they actually had a physical facility in ‘tram. which was their headquarters, did they not? A Exactly. Q . And-there was a CIA Case Officer who managed to s:iper: vise that facility. A Yes. Q Now, what has happened tof A | ~ |were gradually phased down and will ao out of existence -- G are out of existence, aren't they? Isn't it thel jor -- these are the ss DoclTd: 32203851 Page 101 SECRET
abh 5 Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 il le 13 WARD & PAUL 14 16 16 17 18 19 “20 al Ze 235 410 First Street, S.£., Washington, 0.C. 20003 25 HW 30955 DBocld: 32703 24 senna nnngeenannygn titer ee ent fetter een tannin terres eee eee en enn t A SECRET 99 And bare The Rene are |. 4 Yes. The only reason we use two different names is that in each of these things in those days we had to have a project which had to be renewed every year to get the - funding. Q A Q A Synonymous. “~~ are cryptonyms? Yes. Do the initials stand for anything other than -- No. Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt somebody you just call downstairs and they give you a a a ‘crypt. You don't have anything to do-with it.| | Q Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement ‘or assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the political conventions in 1968 and 1972, would you briefly describe for me the nature of the assistance provided hy the Agency to the Secret Service? A At the request of the Secret Service we conducted name traces on individuals whom the Secret Service wanted traced. 1 Page 102 These includedthe employees of all hotels in Miami GeroEeT
SECRET 7 6 100 | ° | ( 3 | Beach where any convention activities were to take place, | a 2 | s | emplovees of catering services, limosine service, employees | 2 in ~- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It & an | is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it. 4 : . t 5 |} ! | Foreign news people and media, television, radio people. | 6 : ! Q Were these people on whom name traces were requested. - all foreign nationals? . 8 | | ' A All foreign nationals. 9 . Q Was tnere any check made to determine whether | . | 10 . a i any of them were American citizens? ume : ; A We levied on the Secret Service as a requirement 12 | 5 that they have identified these people by nationality before | € ; 3 13 | ‘ | we would run a, name trace. Inadvertently, at one time ‘ 14 * they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens 18 which we promptly sent back to them and told them we could 16 not trace. i” Q And this practice was followed both in 1968 and 18 1972? . | 2 19 A That is right. | Co . . g 20 Q And where were these names traced? | - } | ¢ 3 el A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The 3 ae Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check Wl . ai 3 £5 here. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had § E e4 more information on the Cubans than we would have back here. So . . 25 Q But the names were traced through Agency files? HW 350955 Docld:32203¢51 Page 103 ; . SECRET
Hiv @ 50955 Pnone {Area 202) 544-6000 no 10 il 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 al 22 23 24 410 First Street, $.E., Washington, 0.C, 20003 25 Docld: 32203841 SECRET 101 A Through Agency files. Q ° Was Secret Service receiving cooveration from FBI on this as well?’ A Oh, yes. Q And in effect,they were getting an all-Agency name check -- A Right. . Q —-- on people who might pose a security threat -- A Yes. Q ~~ to a candidate? A Well, they were just trying to determine who might, be a security threat. Q That is right. Potential threat. A Yes. Q For what political parties -~ strike that. In'1968 was this service provided for both political conventions? A Both political conventions. Q Were they both held in Miami that year? A No. I guess it was in 1972 they were both held there. I think it was just the Democratic in 1968. Q These requests did come from the Secret Service rather than -- A From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for Page 104 e2efrrevyT
Hiv waPhe, 50955 Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 il 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24. 410 First Street, S.£., Washington, 0.C, 20003 25 Docld: 32203 | | | | : | SECRET 102 support. Q Do you still maintain the records with respect to that tracing activity? A I have all the names that have been traced. Q And they are on little cards cown in your files? A Yes. | Q Why have those records been maintained? Is there any reason those records have been maintained? A Well, because we were told to maintain them when the Watergate thing broke... Q I see. A And since then nobody will destroy anything. Q OK. Are you aware of any picketing at various places in the country that has been conducted by Cuban groups? A I was not aware of it until I was told of it. I still don't know whether this was a spontaneous action on the part of these people or whether they were instructed to do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable tc. Q At what locations has it been reported that pickets were located? A Airline offices in New York, Miami. I think another place. I forget where it was. Q Have you in fact been able to verify that these persons were Cubans? 1 Page 105 SECRET
SECRET | 103 f | ; 8 l : A Well, it is a matter of record in thel —_|nistory : i os 8 2 | that this indeed did take place. Now, what I have been trying : ca = ° i to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized 3 A , = a4 . . * * i this,which I fully doubt. | 5 i Q ‘ho was the On-Site Case Officer? | 6 | A At that time it was a fellow by the name of 8 * : . Q Is he still alive? : ‘ 9 A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know 10 whether this was a unilateral action on the part of (ener Pp il [ _fhgainst the countries that were then trading with i le Cuba, notably Spain and Great Britain and France. < ry : ‘ 1s Q Other than this incident which we -- strike that. f 3 14 What kind of an investigation have you conducted? 15 A I have talked to people, which is really all vou 16 can do. There is no other way you can do it. 17 Q You have been unable to determine who, if anyone, 18 authorized this activity? Have you been able to ident:‘y ” 19 any of the persons who participated in the picketing? r 20 A No. 8 21 | Q With what frequency did this activity occur? 3 Re A I don't have any idea. I only know of one instance. uh . < 23 . QQ This was in New York City? a F 24 A New York City and Miami. x i °o . ‘ ¢ 25  Q Do you know of any organized political activity trac. SECRET WW 50955 Bocla: 322703351 Page 106
° mabh 1 | | SECRET | : | | 08 al | 2 i . t ¢ | | engaged in? | fo o6U€6S . Sg 2 : | 5 | A To my Knowledge, they didn't engage in any. i 2 i Q Any political activity. i Do you know of any other activities that they have | conducted within this country, they or any of their members an , : 6 have conducted within this country that we have not already . | discussed this afternoon? | i 7 A No. i 9 Q Any political activities? Any operations? 10 A No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain (ti select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban 3 a defectors. In other words, live with them until they are ! goog , t : 1s | resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity fr , < id 14 they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of any- ; 16 thing else. 16 | Q Do you know of any criminal activities that have i? been attribited to -- I. 18 A I have heard of some allegations which have never a 19 been proven. | 3 i Q . , s ‘ “| G 20 Q What are the allegations? | ca] ¢ , 4 21 A The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances | £ : 22]. | z and this type of thing. | wi . Wi . 2 25 Q Have those allegations been made with any fre- FE 24 quency? : * z9 A Well, I forget who it was. It was during the HY 50955 Docld: 32203651 Page 10? SECRET !
SECRET | : | | 105 | i 2 | : 2 ~ | Watergate trial. Some of these allegations that came out | : 4 | 1 {og | . , . ; 3 é and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we ! 3 rd 3 ! < ° | made file checks and this tyne of thing. One particular * * i activity was supposed to have been carried out in Rockefeller 5 i Center in New York and it turns out it was taken out of il | ; ‘ 6 context. .It was a training mission and -- training exercise. : i 4 it » GQ . e i ? | These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York 8 | and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Manhattan @ A 9 -~~- Chase Manhattan and to come back out and then they were 7 | 10 | supposed to diagram the layout of the bank. And this to some } | ; ; 11 | of them meant casing the bank when in fact it was just a | 4 jie “memory exercise. | 3 < H 4 s 13 Q With what frequency were those kinds of training e & . ' 3 14 | exercises conducted? ’ | 15 A Well, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt | 16 that these people, selected individuals, were to be trained 1? in trade craft. | 18 Q- And did their trade craft training include such , \ - 19 | things as surveillance? J o Gd 20 A Sure. fa) i g 21 Q And break-ins? £ 3 22 A No. Not break-ins. Nor surreptitious entry. As I a . 23 said, in the case of this particular thing, it was misinter- | g | = . | { = 24 preted as casing the bank. These exercises were given -~- they 5 ° s * 25 could have walked into your office, your outer office and WW 50955 Doclad: 322703851 Page 106 GECRET
HW 50955 Prone (Area 202} 544-6000 LO Ll 12 13 14 WARD & PAUL 15 16 17 18 19 | za! 23 24 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 295 Docld: 322703381 SECRET 106 said -- the instructor could have said two hours later tell me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it? This is just for observation. Q You stated earlier none of those allegations have been proven. “Have any of them been proved to your satisfaction? A No. Ithink we disoroved them to my satisfaction. Q I take it you do not believe they took place other than the training exercise? A Oh, no. No. I don't believe they did. ‘9 Do you know of any instances where members of that group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry in this country? A No. Q Have you ever been present at any discussions of the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like th Miami Station within this country? A. Legality? No. Q How about the propriety? A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up. No one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or the propriety of having the Station. Q There have been some allegations in the press and elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of that community, by the CIA. Are you aware of those? Page 109 SEraer
‘fh 13 HW 50955 Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 Li 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 17 18 - 19 20 el 22 25 24 410 First Street, $.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 PA) DocId: 32203 SECRET oy | A No. 9) We received some correspondence and I have seen SOR articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of a resource that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various operations in this country. te a cee co eee ee oe 51 A You mean this country? \ 9 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some “other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any knowledgé of use by the CIA of Cuban nationals or exiles for any type | --of operation within this country? A No. Q Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided any financial support for Cuban businessmen in this country? A No. Not to my knowledge. . 3 A No. 0 Establishment of businesses? A No. Q No? | A No. 9) In the course of our discussions today we discussed various political front groups, | | | | revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre, Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supporter , | | by the Agency, either financially or otherwise? Page 110
eX HW 50955 Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 Li 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 al 22 235 410 First Street, S.E., Washingtan, 0.C. 20003 29 Docld: 3220: 24 - A Q to Mr. A A Q SECRET 1083 Not to my knowledge. Are you familiar with the appendix that was attached Colby?s statement? Yes. Did you have some role in drafting that? You mean the Miami Station thing? Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station". Yes. You wrote it? ) Yes. It has a familiar ring about it. There are-refer: to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are there any others other than the ones we have been ciscussic«: intelligence-gathering activities are conducted in the 'i:a-1 Do you have any personal knowledge of what kind of 51 Page iil SECRET mC.
BW 450955 Pnone (Area 202) 544 eddb a] 10 11 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 LS 16 17 18 19 20 el 22 25 24 410 First Street, §.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003 25 Bocld: 32203801 SECRET 109 Oni now is completely and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean. here to Headquarters. The (ts Q Shea-- I beg your pardon -- does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban situation in Miami run any agents in the Cuban community? a career agent who has been with us for a good many years in Miami and we do use him to contact relatives of Cubans who are still in Cuba. I mean, relatives who are in the U.S. 1 . | A No. Well, let me explain that to you. We do have | : t who have relatives in Cuba. | f Now, this is done principally with the idea of a recruitment target, determine weaknesses or strengths, this type of thing. He does contact these people all over the United States. If we come across an individual that looks like he might be recruitable, or perhaps we could even double hin, we will, after we make our preliminary assessment, and we find out where relatives and these types of people are, we will ask this career agent or instruct him to go contact these people, be it. New York, New Jersey, Chicago, or what- ever. cece error ae I EA A Q So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this country, as access agents. Page 112 . a ER, RED GRE
| @»» 16 HW 50955 SECRET | 110 3 3 . : A Right. a 3 Q Just like foreign associates would do. : . in A Exactly. 3 = : * 2 | Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who are contract emplovees of the Agency who still work in the Miami-Cuban community? . A No. None. 2) That entire apparatus has been -- A ilas been dismantlead. Q -- dismantled. What is the @é@u 2 A I really don't know but iff | € a o as far as I know. I think it will be py the next fiscal e €< z year. MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. (Discussion off tne record.) ‘'MR.MANPREDI: Let's qo back on the record. BY MR. MANFREDI: Q There are presently no Cuban Ops being conducted out ‘Of Miami? A No. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of Headquarters. @) And even from the Headquarters location there are no paramilitary operations? 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 A No. SECRET Docld: 32203651 Page 113
i { ( SECRET | NN, lll | “oh LTS 8 | 3 1 < Q No covert -- well, there is some vropaganda activit “ being conducted still? cs 5 | | 2 A On a very small scale, and the covert action faciliti & 4} : | that we had, the radio, taped orogram, is being terminated “ 5 [lr | by 30 June. So for all practical purposes, it is terminated | of | I now. ' ‘ 7 . Q \ 8 é A Yes. 9 . . 9 And it has been decreased to how many people? | 10 | A Between and| | i oo il . ty sa eae . f. a Q And it has absolutely no responsibilities with | , 12 2 respect to Cuba? | ” a 13 | | a7 A Absolutely none. ‘ 14 Q And its responsibilities are entirely directed to 15 . . . other Latin American countries? 16 wt . . A To Caribbean countries. 1? . - eee . Q Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are 18 . . . other Agency stations in the Caribbean? ps 19 A Yes, 8 . g 20 Q Well, I have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts. § 21 ; 2 If you have anything you would like to add you are welcome § " = ze to do so. Wi @ g ZS A No, I have nothing. a ‘& 24 9 I want to thank you on behalf of myself and the o = 25 Commission for your cooperation. HW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 114 GEefper -
® HW 50955 410 First Street, $.£., Washington, 0.C. 20603 Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000 10 11 12 13 WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 18 19 20 a1 22 24 29 23° a rr ec nent entree a arn re enn a SECRET | 112 A Sure. 2 Iam sorry we had to take so much of your time, A That is all right. Q  $$Thank you again, (Whereupon, at 3:35 o'clock p.m., the taking of the deposition was concluded.) Bocld: 32205351 Page 115 SECRET