8 5 a 3 66 a 5 7 x = 8 oO fo) 9 Zz E 55 10 4 Q 11 = Z 12 ae i) " . # A 14 “S15 fa ee s 16 wa 5 17 a 2 hm 6«18 x = 2 19 ise] 20 21 22. e 23 24 25 12 the committee for my having been late this morning. | we. Fithian, I was not aiming this at any person. Chairman Stokes. I do want to personally apologize to you and the committee for being late this morning and it is certainly entirely my fault. This is the first committee business meeting that since this committee started, have ever been late for and I just want that on the record. Mr. Fithian. I just want to underscore the schedule that we set for ourselves for these public hearings I just think we really have to have every member impressed with the necessity to really kick it off; otherwise, the whole schedule is just going to go ‘right down the tubes. Chairman Stokes. Any other further questions? oO Mee Edgar has a motion before the committee. Mr. Blakey. I make the suggestion that that might be an appropriate thing to take up in a kind of executive session as the cross*examination matures and each person's role in it is clarified. Those people who are directly participating might want to sit in and see how that works out. Mr. Edgar. I guess I have difficulty. If the American people. are watching and Ray makes an hour or an hour and a half statement, let's say we have figtégn minutes or tue minutes before &S even begins swearing him in and getting everything ready and I am sure the ghairman would have an opening statement since this is the beginning of our lengthy hearings and we might want to ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 327766656 Page 14 ,
2 3 @® : 9 5 & 8 6 a S 7 a S 8 N 3 a 9 Z = = 10 Zz coi Y 11 = g 12 = joa] wn 2 14 & eo. 15 je} jon] : 16 ai HK 17 ie) a] m 618 x & = 19 3 20 21 e ”* | 23 24 25 13 put in some of the statistical data as to how often we met and what we are going to be about and then Ray speaks and then we have an hour or so or an hour and cighgen minutes of cross=examination and we whet Ray's appetite and our appetite and then we get up and leave. EtmjusteseemsaxtosmeSthat=that~eindsof=splan—Lockedwinzearhy and, we wait until then to make the decision to go longer, I think it is too late. That kind of plan locked in at this point I think will make us look silly. Y the second thing I. am concerned about is, knowing Ray, just from reading some of his 28 hours before us, he is going to spend time during the night trying to figure out what he said wrong and trying to make sure he has opportunities the next day to change his testimony or to get himself out of something. We give him two evenings to restructure his story before we get to the open ques- tioning of Congress whereas if we try to get the 16 hours done in the first tye days and if we need him on Friday we can meet; if not, we could send him back and bring him back in November if we need additional information after we have tested cut his story. We only give him one night to correct his story and that just mentally seems better in my opinion. I think we are going to be laughed at. I think a lot of people are going to say, well, that is the way the Congress operates; it operates three-hours a day. It is sort of like the court system where they take tdffr=hour lunches. Congressmen are going to just get up and leave, it is not important to them, they ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 32727666586 Page 15
10 1 14 15 16. 17 18 19 300 7TH STREET, S.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 21 Ps 22 | 23 24 25 DoclId: 322766636 14 are not investing time. Particularly with somebody like James Earl Ray, I think we would be legitimate to sit there, break for our Conversation lunch, come back within a quick hour and continue }through the dayo Y Mr. Sawyer. Would the gentleman yield? Mr. Edgar. I yield. Mr. Sawyer. The court systems do not take tof -hour Lunches, | or anything like that,but I basically agree with the gentleman's position. Mr. McKinney. Three hour lunch. Mr. Sawyer. I think you have two advantages. One is you are not giving an additional recess to restructure, which witnesses do and their counsel do, too. Also, there is some advantage of getting a witness a little tired, too. Near the end of a day, when a witness has been on the stand very often, you can get much more production than you can earlier when the witness is fresh and combative. It is really a grueling thing to be subjected to some sfx hours or Se hours of cross=examination, and a witness gets less agile and less able to dodge and duck, than he is earlier. Mr. McKinney. My question is I don't care how you do it but. I think you ought to front load one of those days with the eifre hours because it seems to me what we have done is put ourselves in the position where on the last day that is it. If we had the last day tentatively set as a thr¢ =hour day, we have the extra time to go along rather than being up against the wall. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 16
— in 12 13 14 15 16 17 300 7TH STREET, S.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 21 @ 22 23 24 25 Docld: 322766636 15 Y my only other problem is Mr. Lane is going to be a thorn in all of our sides. There are ladies present. I hate to give the dingbat time to run around these halls and put on a press show every afternoon which is what I think he is going to do. I think he is going to head for the door at off o'clock in the afternoon and run an all afternoon press show. Mr. Blakey. Could I suggest again that this decision is made by say those people who are directly participating in the cross after all of the considerations can be brought in? I perceive that that discussion could go on for a considerable period of time. The committee does not now have before it ali of the considerations that can lead to have a tentative decision on the other schedule and I-am concerned that if the decision were made now it would be made without the full and fair discussion of all of those considerations and it might be detrimental. to the ability of the committee both to do a good cross=examination and appear to do one, both of which are very important. Mr. Fithian. Would it be out of order, Mr. Chairman, to move the previous question before we vote on this? Chairman Stokes. No. The Chair will entertain a motion. Mr. Blakey. On the schedule? | Mr. Fithian. On the three resolutions. Chairman Stokes. Does the gentleman move the previous ques- tion? Mr. Fithian. If there is no objection, I would move it. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page i?
2» «CS a a e 6 ae a 7 a S 8 N S a 9 Zz & & 10 g x QM 3 12 a @: 13 jaa) %. 14 & oc gas <3} jaa] : 16 MN K 17 & fo} hm «18 jen} & = 419 3 20 21 oe * 23 24 25 . chairman Stokes. At this time the motion is for the of the three resolutions now before the committee. The clerk will call the roll. MiSs»Berning. Mr. Stokes. Chairman Stokes. Aye. Miss Berning. Mr. Devine. {No response) | Mas, Berning. Mr. Preyer. Chairman Stokes. Aye by proxy. Miss} Berning. Mr. McKinney. Mr. McKinney. Aye. Meg, Berning. Mr. Fauntroy. Mr. Fauntroy. Aye. -MisspBerning. Mr. Thone.. etl : fNo response} | Mess) Berning. Mrs. Burke. Cre Mrs. Burke. Aye. Missy Berning. Mr. Sawyer. Mr. Sawyer. Aye. MpssmBerning. Mr. Dodd. Qe Chairman Stokes. Aye.by proxy. MizssspBerning. Mr. Ford. Nee (No response)/ MissgpBerning. Mr. Fithian. ——" Mr. Fithian. Aye. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3277666586 Page 15 16 adoption
9 5 a a 6 S & 7 a S 8 N S A 9 Zz B & 10 z oi 4 g 12 ac @ 23 fae) "). go 14 fot ~ B15 <>} faa] : 16 wn e 17 ic] in] B 618 joc & 5 «19. 3 20 21 © 22 23 24 25 Docld: 322766636 17 7 vessoberning. Mr. Edgar. Mr. Edgar. Aye. Mr. McKinney. Just before we pop. upstairs now, are we open- ing this meeting to our staff people except at some point later on today? Chairman Stokes, Yes. Miss>Berning. Nine Ayes, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Stokes. Nine members having voted in the affirma- tive, the motion is agreed to. Mr. Edgar. I would like to have that as an executive deci- sion. I think we ought to have that as a committee decision because I really feel strongly that it is a policy decision that we have to make as a committee whether we have Ray for thrgée hours or eight hours or sife hours on the first day. I would hope that if we don't do it at this meeting that at some future meeting prior to his visit we make the decision one way or the other whether to accept the sykehour day, the eight=hour day or the th e-hour day for the first visit of Ray. Chairman Stokes. Why don't we go up and vote, and—we-wiig? come back, and your exception will be taken up at that time. {Whereupon, at 10:10 a.m., the committee recessed until 10:22 a.m.} Chairman Stokes. Can we begin? Mr. Blakey. Mr. Chairman, there are several additional items that can be discussed but two of which really require decision ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 19
$ 5 N iB 6 = g 7 a = 8 N io) q 9 Z e 10 Z a 1 4 g 12 —_ 43 @: 13 = fa NM 2 14 & & -2 15 <3} faa) s 16 cw < 17 & fon] 68 oo . = F419 a 20 21 @ ” 23 24 25 DoclId: 322766636 18 from the committee and it might be appropriate to do those first and then go into the briefings. We have two brifings scheduled for today, one on the security considerations involving Mr. Ray and the second one involving the acoustical project. I might add it is only the acoustical project that we can present with staff members being present. FW whe two issues that might require some committee discussion are the ticket policy, a memorandum of which has been circulated to all members of the committee, and the second is the press policy. I would think that the press policy may occasion more discussion than the ticket policy; therefore, it might be useful while most of the members are present to do very quickly the ticket policy and then go into. the question of press policy. The ticket policy is outlined in a memorandum to you dated yesterday. The memorandum summarizes the basic ticket policy pursued by the impeachment hearings, the Tongson Park hearings, the ERA hearings and the Senate Watergate hearings and then it suggests a comparable ticket policy for our own upcoming hearings both in August and September. The basic issue is one of the allocation of scarce resources. We have roughly 68 tickets available. Mrs. Burke. Where will the meeting be held? Mr. Blakey. It will be held in room 2172 which is the International Relations Committee hearing room. Perhaps it would be most useful to have Elizabeth Berning, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 20
2 3 eo ., 6 5 bs) NN YS 6 Te) a x 7 a S 8 N 'o) a 9 Zz fe & 10 zZ jen g -1 4 Z -412 <| @5 3 “3 isa] & . 14 > x 8 15 <3} fond 3 16 io 5 W7 fa [of BH 618 = & > «249 3 20 2) e 23 24 25 Docld: 322766636 19 the chief clerk, to go down the list and tell how we arrived at the numbers for August. we. Fithian. Before we do that may I ask a question, Mr. Chairman? Chairman Stokes. Yes; Mr. Fithian. Mr. Fithian. Is it for security that we are meeting in the Rayburn building: or convenience? Mr. Blakey . Well, a little of both. The Rayburn building has an entrance in-the basement and it has a room upstairs and it has an access to the back room by the back door and it is a little more easier to control inside the room. In addition, it was the only. room available. Since the last reason was sufficient, probably we could have given you that one first. The hearings in September will be in the Caucus Room and it would be a little more appropriate there to have a full open hearing. Mr. Fithian. There is a freight elevator I think that was unknown to the committee in the Cannon House Office Building that would serve the same purpose. I don't know what they are doing with the Cannon Caucus but obviously I suspect all the witnesses would bear interest on James Earl Ray on the part of the press and everything else and every other single witness so I would defer to anybody's judgment in the case of security if that case can be made. Mr. Blakey. The security case can really be made. One of ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 71
11 42 13 414 /45 18 19 300 7TH STREET, S.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 2) @ 22 23 24 25 | Docld: 32266666 20 the things that the ticket policy assumes is that for James Earl Ray there will be no general public invited. Everybody would be admitted with a ticket and we will know the name and address of every person who is in the room those thrée days. On the other days there will be rotating public seats so that even if we had the Caucus Room for James Earl Ray it is unlikely for security reasons that we would want to admit the general public. Gy Mr. McKinney. Also I might add that as a member of the Cannon crowd the going and coming time from Rayburn is a lot faster than it is from Cannon. Mrs. Burke. No question. Mr. McKinney. By the middle of September when we are going zonkers here on the floor you are going to rue the day because I do it every day. You can make it a lot faster from Rayburn. So that whole issue we have of everyone just sitting there while we vote, it is going to go a lot smoother. Miss, Berning. The Caucus Room is scheduled for renovations on the 16/ 17th and 18th of August. Mr. Fithian. Is that a bureaucratic device? MisssyBerning. They don't release the room when it is due for renovations. That is the word we got. Mr. Blakey. The only two points on the ticket policy that should be brought to your attention is that it assumes that only two tickets will be given to each member and that I thought was kind of small until Miss 35 Berning indicated that that looked rather ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 22 .
w pes “ 3B 6 a a 7 x Ss 8 3} a 9 Z & Z @ 11 = g 12 faa] nN = 14 = o 15 & jae 3 16 is 3) E17 2 faa  6O«i8 ise} = =, 19 $ 20 21 @ » 23 24 25 21 generous compared to the policy followed by most of the other committees in similar situations and second is that it assumes that only two tickets would be given to the witness. Now generall I suspect that won't present any problems with us; nevertheless, we can reasonably anticipate that Mr. Lane is probably going to insist on up to eighfen tickets. In other words, if we give him _ +376, he will ask for edie; if we give him fi#tgen, he would ask for tndfby and use them as a method of having various people 4 I don't know quite how to put this without apparently appearing to put him down, nevertheless to have more than members of Ray's immediate family present for symbolic reasons. Ff wee Devine. Jury selection. ‘Mr.: Blakey. That may be°a good way of putting it so that no matter what block we give him we are going to hear that it was not enough.in which case this policy which gives everybody two. My suggestion is over the strenucus objection of Jim Wolf and some of the other people on the staff who said we are going to carry the heat for not giving him enough so we might as well give him the same as we give everybody else and carry that heat. Nonethe- less, those are the two issues it seems to me that are involved in the ticket policy which you ought to have your attention focused on. Chairman Stokes. Any comments? Mr. McKinney. I move we accept the ticket policy stated in the memorandum. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld:327666386 Page 273
—_ 15 16 17 18 19 300 7TH STREET, S.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 21 e 22 23 24 25 DoclId: 322766636 22 Y chaixman Stokes. It has been properly moved that we accept the ticket policy set forth in the memorandum. Any discussion? ~ All those in favor will say Aye; those opposed No. The motion is carried. So ordered. Mr. Blakey. Mr. Chairman, you also have before you a cover 7 memorandum dated August 2 from me that has attached to it a draft No. 2 of a suggested public information policy. It is draft No. 2 because Praft No. 1 was circulated among the press members or people on your staffs who have some dealing with the press and they had an opportunity to have some input to it. There is one central point of information that I would draw. your attention to in the memorandum. ‘tt assumes that as we go. from a period of investigation into a period of public hearings that there ought to be some change in the committee's releasing its information and to do that there should be a dissemination desk within the committee offices that will act as a central repository of that information and we will make an effort to make available to your staffs all of the public information and serve really as a research library for your staffs having everything that is required. Most of what would be possessed by the information desk would also be possessed by each Abmber's office and the information desk function in part will be to keep up the information in your office. Apart from that the only other major. issue: that .should ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 274
10 WW 12 15 16 17 18 300 7TH STREET, S.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 21 @ ' 22 23 24 25 DoclId: 322766636 be brought to your attention is as follows. The committee up until now has followed a press policy of no comment on anything. As we get into the public hearings it probably is not possible to maintain that policy across the board though candidly it would be my preference to see that policy adopted. SY wnat this memorandum suggests is that the committee draw a distinction between issues of substance and issues of procedure and the committee members be authorized consistent with the policy of the committee itself to make any comment that they felt desirable about procedure and when hearings were scheduled, the ‘number of witnesses we have heard, the kind of work we have done c -in- the past from a statistical nature. Nevertheless the suggestio in the memorandum is that the committee members themselves refrain either on a background basis or a public basis from making any “ comment outside of the hearings themselves on what is going on in the hearings; that is, no comment:on a witness is going to be called, no comment.on. the credibility of a witness, no comment on what you expect to prove or what you think you have proven. “know that this suggested policy is different than what is traditionally followed in public hearings of a congressional character. My argument to you would be that what we would be doing in exploring Martin Luther King's death in the public hearings and exploring President Kennedy's death in the public hearings is something very different from what congressional hearings are traditionally all about and that you will be playing ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Page 25
24 -1 | essentially the roles of judges and jurors in passing on the facts 2 | brought to you and because it is grossly improper for a judge or a 3 | jury to comment on evidence as it is being developed before them I @ 4 | would suggest to you that it may well be perceived as improper for 5 | the members of this committee to comment on the evidence as it is 6 | going along and being presented to you. 7 H In addition, I would raise the following consideration which 8 I think probably is the most significant. It is unfortunate that 9 | this committee has had in the past a bad press image. There was 10 some thought in the early life of the committee that the chief i counsel was making an effort to explore either or both of these 12 deaths for personal gain and of a publicity character. I think 13 that if the public perceives this committee as in any degree ‘14 1 making use of either of these deaths for political or personal “<15- |) gain it will cast the whole committee in such disrepute and call 16 into question all of your integrities that we ought to ao every- 7 thing possible to avoid even the charge of an effort to exploit 18 either of these deaths. 19 Therefore, if each committee member refrains from any 300 7TH STREET, S.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 rivate comment and in addition when publicly asked a question p 21 simply responds that.///The evidence is being presented to me and Y 22 I think it would be inappropriate or impreper for me to comment 23, on it until it is all scan ane®C, what comments I will 24 have on it I will share with the American people in December in 25 a full, open and fair conversation i lic where I will vote ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3277666586 Page 276
10 11 12 13 14 ~ 15 16 17 300 7TH STREET, S.W. , REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 2) @ 22 23 24 25 25 my convievions, 7 {I think. the press wouid understand it and the general position of the committee would be one that would be eminently defensive. (/ chairman Stokes. Any discussion on this point? Mr. Edgar. Mr. Edgar. Mr. Chairman, I have three points that I would like to make on the press policy. I think that in light of some of the things that. Mr. Blakey has just said that there ought to be another subheading put in the press policy which implies thats because of the negative press that the committee had in its open- ing months that we wish to suggest to the press that the policy in opening up our sessions now to the public and to the press is goin to be much more open and friendly and that we in fact are beginnin a process of working with the press and saying something to the press in our memorandum that we know the difficult job that the press has in covering an issue like this and that we want to be as open and as cooperative as we can. I make my comment because I think the press can make or break the success of our. committee and I think we ought to try to approach the hearings not with a chip on our shoulder that we are keeping information but to fully explain to the press what it is we would like to do and what our plans are and to try to work as harmoniousiy with the press without losing our integrity as is publicly possibile. To that end I would suggest that the Thursday before the 14th that there be'‘a press briefing, not for the purpose ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 3272766656 Page 27
10 VW 12 13 “14 15 16 17 18 19 300 7TH STREET, S.W., REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 20 21 @ 22 . 23 24 25 26 of outlining to the press the specific witnesses that would appear, but that on the Thursday before the 14th the meeting and briefing with the press could set the stage for what we are about to do in opening public hearings and we could share the committee's press policys and We could explain it in a very detailed fashion and give some background information. I think that this kind of a setting is not really outlined in the second draft of the press policy but makes some sense to me, assd Ehen when we go into the 14th with our public hearings we will have already let the press know in an open setting and in a friendly setting perhaps led by you, Mr. Chairman how cooperative we want to be with the press. That is the first point that I would like to make. _ Y aust two subsequent points. One is to raise the question of whether or not we have explored the possibility of having a closed circuit TV hookup for our hearings that would go to each ember's office. This might help in our credibility before those Aémbers if they could turn the channet and find us. I don't know whether it is technically possible but I know that ali the offices have TV coverage of the floor debate. I don't know whether we are hooked up to have closed circuit TV coverings of our hearings. Mr. McKinney. We cannot get the House thing in the Cannon. — —_ Mr. Sawyer. I get them in the Cannon. Mr. Edgar. You have to maxe application for it. Mr. McKinney. Ah, so. Mr. Blakey. I am sure Miss )Berning can check on that. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. Docld: 327766636 Page 276