HW 54756 20 21 23 24 25 EXECUTIVE SESSION DEPOSITION OF VICTOR ESPINOSA WEDNESDAY, JUNE 7, 1978 House of Representatives President John F. Kennedy Subcommittee of the Select Committee on Assassinations Washington, D. C. The deposition of Victor Espinosa was taken at 3:30 p.m., in the office of the Select Committee on Assassinations in Room 3370 of the office of the Committee, Second and D Streets, S.W., Washington, D. C. Present: Jonathan Blackmer and John Hornbeck, Counsel to the Select Committee. Also Present: Ms. Elizabeth Berning, Chief Clerk to the Select Committee. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, - Docld:322746514 Page #0 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
20 21 23 @ 24 25 HW 54756 Docld: 32246514 Page Whereupon, VICTOR ESPINOSA having been duly sworn by the Chief Clerk to the Select Committee, was examined under the rules of the Select Committee and testified as follows: Mr. Blackmer. We are present in the Select Committee's offices to depose you. My name is Jonathan Blackmer and I am an attorney with the Select Committee on Assassinations. By virtue of Rule 4 of House Resolution 222, I am empowered to take statements under oath. Shortly, Mr. John Hornbeck will join us, who is a senior staff counsel on this committee, to further ask questions of the witness. What is your full name, sir? | Mr. Espinosa. Victor Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. And you are here for the purpose of giving a voluntary statement before this committee? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. | Mr. Blackmer. I have given you a copy of the Committee Rules, House Resolution 222, 460 and 760. You are not now under subpoena, are you? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. You are here voluntarily? Mr. Espinosa... Yes. Mr. Blackmer. You have the right to have counsel pre- sent if you wish. There is no counsel here and I assume that ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 300 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
11 12 13 15 16 17 18 20 21 22 23 eo 24 25 HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page is of your own choice. Mr. Espinosa. I don't see it is necessary, anyway. Mr. Blackmer. The entire record of this deposition will be transcribed. We will send you a copy for you to read, verify and return to the Select Committee, after which we will send you your own personal copy. Should you wish to make any changes inthe substance of the transcript, this must be done before a federal magistrate. I know you are residing in London, and if it is necessary to make any changes, if you feel corrections are necessary, if you would please call us, we will try to make arrangements over there for that to be done. I would like to begin the questioning with a little back- ground. You were born in Cuba; is that correct? Mr. Espinosa. That is right. Mr. Blackmer. And you resided there until when? Mr. Espinosa. Until 1959. Mr. Blackmer. And at that time you came to the United States? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. . Mr. Blackmer. Approximately in 1957 or 1958, were you a student at the University of Havana? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I was. Mr. Blackmer. And as a student at the University of Havana, were you engaged in any underground activities with ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 0 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
18 19 20 21 23 r 0 25 HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page either anti-Batista or later anti-Castro? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, both. — Mr. Blackmer. And could you tell us the nature of the activities which were directed against the Batista regime? Mr. Espinosa. Well, different kinds of clandestine activities. Mr. Blackmer. Would that be in the nature of raising explosives or arms for paramilitary use? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, mainly. Mr. Blackmer. Were you involved in any individual sabo- tage operations? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. What specific activities were those? Was there anything that comes to mind? Mr. Espinosa. .No, not really... Mr. Blackmer. Was it aimed at the economy more than individual members of the Batista regime? Mr. Espinosa. Not so much the economy, but as an indi- vidual member. | Mr. Blackmer. ‘High level officials? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. Were you involved with Fidel Castro in these anti-Batista activities? Mr. Espinosa. No, Mr. Blackmer. Who were you working with? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 500 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
20 21 22 23 @ 24 25 HW 54756 DoclId: 322746514 Mr. Espinosa. 5 With students, the Revolutionary Council of the University of Havana. Mr. Blackmer. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. Mr. Espinosa. and a few others. Mr. Blackmer. Mr. Espinosa. Sympathizers of the Mr. Blackmer. can think of? Mr. Espinosa. any knowledge of. Mr. Blackmer. in Cuba? Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. vities? Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. Cubela? Rolando Mr. Espinosa. Page Who are the particular leaders? There was Echeverria. Do you have a first name? Jose Antonio; and Cubela, Porton Chaumon How were your activities financed? Mainly by bonds that were being sold to revolutionary party. were there any large contributors that you I am sure there were, but not that I had Your family were landowners, were they not, Yes. And were they part of the upper class? Yes. Were they at all sponsoring your acti- Not that. I know of. Could you tell us when you first met It was a long time ago. We were children ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, po 7th STREET, $.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
10 11 12 13 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 25 HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page are dead. Mr. Blackmer. .When did your interest change from being anti-Batista to pro-Castro? Mr. Espinosa. I was never pro=Castro; being against Batista does not mean you are pro-Castro. I think very shortly after Castro took over I began to be anti-Castro. Mr.Blackmer. Did you ever meet Castro? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Do you know of any people who were closely associated with him? Mr. Espinosa. Only one person. Mr. Blackmer. And that was whom? Mr. Espinosa. That was Jose Smith, and he landed in Cuba when Castro landed and he was killed at that time. That is the only person whom I knew was close to him. Mr. Blackmer. When Castro landed in Cuba, was that in 1956? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, 1956. Mr. Blackmer. So your activities began approximately in 1957. Mr. Espinosa. No, I would say 1955. Mr. Blackmer. During this period of time, did you know Pedro Diaz Lanz? Mr. Espinosa. No, I did not. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 30 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
1 Mr, Blackmer. Have you sudsequently known about Pedro 2 Diaz Lanz? 3 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 4 Mr. Blackmer. Did you nave any personal <nowledge of 5 him? | 6 Mr. Espinosa. What do you mean by "personal knowledge?" 7 Mr. Blackmer. Did you ever have any contact with him? 8 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I did. 9 Mr. Blackmer. And what period of time was that? 10 Mr. Espinosa. It was, I would say, in 1959 and 1960 in 11 Miami. 12 Mr. Blackmer. Do you recall who he was with when you Saw 13 him? 14 Mr, Espinosa.. No, I do not recall really, and I only met 1§ nim once or. twice. 16 Mr, Blackmer. Do you know an individual by the name of 17 Frank Sturgis? 18 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 19 Mr. Blackmer, Where did you meet this individual? 20 Mr. Espinosa. In Miami. 21 Mr, Blackmer. In what time? 22 Mr. Espinosa. 1959 or 1960. 23 Mr. Blackmer. Was he with Diaz Lanz when you met: hiin? 24 Mr. Espinosa. I can't recall. 25 Mr. Blackmer. .Wnen you were living in Havana-in 1958 and ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:322746514 Page 9 AAA 7th STREET Sty AERPORTERS QUI DING AWASHINGTON MF 390248 1909) 55.9745
1 1959, did you remember frequenting the Hotel Nacional. 2 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I did. 3 ' Mr. Blackmer. Did you know an individual there by the 4 name.of Michael McLaney? 5 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 6 Mr. Blackmer. Would you explain now you first met Mr. 7 MeLaney and tne nature of your relationship? 8 Mr. Espinosa. I met him first because tne manager of the 9 hotel, the social manager of the hotel was a friend of mine. 10 Mr. Blackmer. And his name was what? 1 . Mr. Espinosa. It was Callejas, and he subsequently 12 introduced me to Bill MecLaney who ultimately introduced me to 13 Mike McLaney. 14 | Mr. Blackmer. And what was the nature of your 16 relationship? 16 Mr. Espinosa. It was just social in Cuba. 17 Mr. Blackmer. Did you go out with them to dinner? 18 Mr, Espinosa. Yes, sometimes. 190 Mr. Blackmer.. Were either of the MeLaney brothers 20 involved in any clandestine activities against either Batista 21 or Castro to your knowledge at that time? 22 Mr. Espinosa. Not that I know of. 23 Mr. Blackmer. You came to the United States, vou 24 say, in December of 1959? 25 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I think so. ALOERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 10 LOR mew RR ERAN Set PRUNE VATA OE TIAE SAL OM ARNAA HAAN TTA ADS
19 20 21 23 25 Mr. Blackmer. Were you sponsored by Mike McLaney? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I was. Mr. Blackmer. And did he help you in getting over here financially? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Were you trained by the Central Intelligence Agency in any clandestine paramilitary training of any kind? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I believe it was then. Mr. Blackmer. Could you tell us your first contact with the Central Intelligence Agency and your first role in the Cuban exile movement prior to the Bay of Pigs in the United States? Mr. Espinosa. Well, I heard when I came to the States they were forming some kind of a brigade or something to invade Cuba, and I told different friends of mine in Miami to let me know when the thing was happening. I went to New York to work and they contacted me at one point, and they were recruiting people to take part in this activity, and I went back to Miami and I enlisted myself. Mr. Blackmer. Could you tell us who it was that contacted you? Mr. Espinosa. I think it was Mario Jiminez. Mr. Blackmer. He contacted you and came back to Miami, and where did you go to enlist? | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, WW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page #9 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
15 16 17 20 21 @ 23 24 25 HW 54756 Docld: 32246514 Page 12 im Mr. Espinosa. I went to one of the enlisting houses, and I think there was one nouse wnere you go over there and enlist. Mr. Blackmer. And do you recall any particulars abdout that house, who was running it and who was there? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Do you know an individual by the name of Howard dunt? Mr. Espinosa. Well, I nave heard about him. Mr. Blackmer. Have you seen photographs of him? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blacxmer. Was this individual involved in any of this early contact you had with the Central Intelligence “Agency? Mr. Espinosa. I don't know, Mr. Blackmer. After you enlisted in Miami, where were you then sent? Mr. Espinosa. I was sent to Guatemala. Mr. Blackmer. And this would nave been approximately Mr. Espinosa. This would nave been approximately --- Mr. Blackmer. Could it possibly nave been in the beginning of 1960? Mr. Espinosa. No, it was not the beginning of 1960. I would say it was the toward the end of 1950, tne third quarter ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, ~ , me RRR A RR CR RAI AAA OR ROSAS TANNA mt Ame
1 of 1960. It was June or July, approximately. 2 Mr. Blackmer. Did you first go to Panama or first to 4 Mr. Espinosa. I went to Guatemala and then went to 5 Panama. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docid: 32246514 Page BS a, QTREST SiS REPORTERS BLUE SING WASHINGTON OC 2094 1209) S5d.2245 12
HW 54756 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 Mr. Blackmer. What type of activities were you trained in? | Mr. Espinosa. Just general activities, general, conventional military warfare and guerrilla warfare and training in explosives and munitions and clandestine “operations, et cetera. ~ Mr. Blackmer. Do you recall any of the people who trained you? were they Americans? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, there were some Americans and some Europeans too. Mr. Blacxmer. Do you recall the names of tnese individuals? Mr. Espinosa. I cannot recall the names. I know one person, an American of Philippine origin, and ne was Known to us aS Colonel Vallejo. Mr. Blackmer. During this training, did you Know an” individual by the name of Carlos Hernandez? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I did. Mr. Blackmer. Was there an individual by the name of John Koch Gene involved with you?, Mr. Espinosa. I do not recall that name. Mr. Blacxmer. How about Acelo Pedro ‘Amores? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. How abdout Miguel Alvarez ‘Jiminez?- Mr. Espinosa. Yes. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Docld: 322746514 Page 14
10 11 2 13 14 15 16 17° 18 19 20. 21 23 24 25 14. Mr. Blackmer. Is this the same man who contacted you or a different Jiminez?:: Mr. Espinosa. This is a different Jiminez, Mr. Blackmer. Any relation to Mario? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blacxmer. Was there anyone else that you later nad acquaintances with that you trained with? Mr. Espinosa. There were a dozen; there were many. Mr. Blackmer. Did you ever go in any infiltration raids into Cuba as part of this? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. Can you recall any of the specific details of any of the particular raids? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. One time we went to a raid about 20 Kilometers in Havana and we were -supposed:to knock out this Navy installation somewhere, and all of the raids were a different nature, like if we went into tne country, and getting information of tne country and bringing people out of the counntry. Mr. Blackmer. Do you recall any specific individuals that you went on these raids with? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I recall a few. Mr. Blackmer. Could you give us their names? \ Mr. Espinosa. Miguel Alvarez; Calcie Nundez was another, and Frank--and I can't remember Frank's last name, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 15
.10 11 12 20 21 @ 23 24 25 15 Mr. Blackmer. Was he American? Mr. Espinosa. No, Cuban. It was Ugarte, and I can't |r rememoder nis first name. Mr. Blackmer. Approximately when were these raids, before or after the Bay of Pigs? Mr. Espinosa. Tney were before and after the Bay of Pigs. | Mr. Blackmer. How many raids did you go on after the Bay of Pigs? Mr. Espinosa. After the Bay of Pigs, I think I went in two or three times. Mr. Blackmer.. And do. you recall the last raid that you went on that was sponsored by the CIA, approximately what date that was? Mr.. Espinosa. Possibly it was four or five months after the invasion. Mr. Blackmer. Sometime in the summer of 1961? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr, Blackmer. were you involved in the Bay of Pigs invasion itself? Mr. Espinosa. Not directly. Mr. Blackmer. were you infiltrated into Cuba. before tne Bay of Pigs? Mr. Espinosa. I. was being infiltrated at the same time that the Bay of Pigs was taking place, and we were ordered to ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 54756 DBocld:32246514 Page 16
10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 25 16 go back to Miami and then when we got back to Miami, we found out that they had landed. Mr. Blackmer. Did they then try to send you back? Mr. Espinosa. There was a little hustle at that time; everything was very much in the air and we were on stand-by, but we were not sent back. Mr. Blackmer. Do you recall whether or not any members of Customs or Immigration in the Miami area were made aware of any of your particular raids so as not to stop you? Mr. Espinosa. Would you rephrase that again? Mr. Blackmer. The various raids that you went on, I assume many of them were from the Miami area- Mr. Espinosa. They were from the Keys; down toward Key West. Mr. Blackmer. Were you aware of any monitoring by Customs or Immigration officials of the United States Government? Mr. Espinosa. Would -- what do you mean by "monitoring"? Mr. Blackmer., These agencies are charged with the respon- Sibility of enforcing the neutrality acts. They try to limit any hostile acts emanating from this country. Were you aware that they were told specifically about your Operations so that they did not stop you? Mr. Espinosa. No. | Mr. Blackmer. Were you ever stopped? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page %0f 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C..20024 (202) 554-2345
10 1 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 . 21 23 25 HW 54756 DBocld:322746514 Page 18 24 17 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I was stopped. “Mr, Blackmer. ‘while you were working for the CIA? Mr. Espinosa. No, never. Mr. Blackmer. When were you stopped? Mr. Espinosa. After I stopped. activities with the CIA. Mr. Blackmer. Approximately when was this? | Mr. Espinosa. One time was in June of 196%. Mr. Blackmer. That was in Miami? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, in Miami, and I had been served by Customs agents two different times and I don't know the legal name for it, notification. If I was caught in a boat or in a plane or trying to go somwhere, related to any kind of | anti-Castro.activity, I will get five years in jail or $5,000 fine or 10 years in jail. Mr. Blackmer. You were in Pact stopped once on June 15, 196 3? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blacxmer. Were you subsequently fined or any charges brought against you? Mr. Espinosa. No. I was taken-to a prison and anyway I was released the next day. . Mr. Blackmer. Let us, if we can, deal with that incident specifically. Our records indicate that on June 15 of 1963, outside of Miami, you and four other individuals were stopped by Customs and FBI agents with a twin-engine beach craft ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC,
10° 11 12 13 ® i 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HW 54756 Docld: 322746514 airplane refinery in Havana. tnat you 1& were attempting to load with exolosives and ‘bombs for your intended mission, which was to bomb an oil Could you tell us whose idea that operation emanated from? _Mr, Mr. Mr, Mr. cspinosa. Blackmer., Espinosa. Slackmer. individual for the Mr. Espinosa. From me. It was your idea? Yes. Did you get any assistance from any other raid? Yes, I got assistance from Carlos Hernandez, from Miguel Alvarez and that is the other kind of assistance you are asking for? Mr. Mr. Mr. this proj Mr. needed to Mr. times. Mr. Blackmer., Espinosa. Blackmer. ect? Espinosa. Duy the Blackmer. m4 spinosa. Blackmer. eSpinosa. Blackmer. Page 247th STREET. Financial or other? Financial assistance from McLaney. How much money did.MeLaney give you for I cannot recall. He gave us whatever. we 5 explosives and so on. Who got the airplanes? It was Sam Benton. And how. did you know Sam Benton? I met nim at MeLaney's nouse several How: was he introduced? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, S.W. REPORTERS SUILOING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
wo 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 HW 54756 DoclId: 322746514 Mr. Blackmer. And then bombs and munitions with you Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Blackmer. When you you stay? Mr. Espinosa. I stayed Mr. Blackmer. The same Mr. Espinosa. Yes but Stayed the first night in a motel, because I wasn't sure I could find the next day I drove over Mr. Blackmer. Mr. Espinosa. did. Mr. Blackmer. Do you recall if someone else may | have given you a key or words, what I am trying the whole operation? Mr. Espinosa. I can't Mr. Blackmer. Did you at any. I can't recall was the door left open? to establish is: ct o did you subsequently to New. Orleans? went to New Orleans, where did ‘at McLaney's house. eottage at Laxe Pontchartrain? let me say something first. I nd tne next day I drove rey] a. place at night and then there. time contact Bill McLaney? if I did or not, I probably In other Did Bill know about say for certain. And you do not recall whether or not he physically came to the cottage where you were? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Did you Know anyone else in New Crleans at the time that you mignt nave deen in contact witn? Mr. Espinosa. No. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page 27 ; AA Ten QTRSLT Quy REONATIAS QINE MING ASASHINGTOAN NC IAADA 1909) RRALDUAS
HW 54756 1 Mr. Blackmer. 2 Guy Bannister? 3 Mr. Espinosa. 4 Mr. Blackmer. 5 in New Orleans? 6 Mr. Espinosa. 7 Mr. Blackmer. g David Ferrie? 9 Mr. Espinosa. 10 11 12 13 20 21 23 24 25 27 Did you know an individual by the name of Not that I know of. A former FBI agent and active, at the time, No. Do you know, or have you ever heard of No. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 300 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D0.C: 20024 (202) 554-2345 Doceld: 322746514 Page 275
HW 54756 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Docld: 322746514 Page 28) Mr, Blackmer. Are you familiar with an individual by the name of Carlos Marcello? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Nick Popich?. 9 Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Peter Surisco? Mr, Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. After you arrived at Lake Pontchartrain, a day or so later, I assume Carlos Hernandez came and met you and I asSume you went over the plan of the operation. Mr. Espinosa. Yes. . Mr. Blackmer. Could you tell us at what point you decided against going on the operation? Mr. Espinosa. well, somehow the father of Fred Gill, who was going to arm the plane, died and subdseguentily we had to restructure and the guy had to go to Miami and shortly after the burial or something we found out ne nad been picked up by the FBI, so we had to call the operation off. Mr. Blackmer. And at any time did you see tne planes? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. After the operation was cancelled, where did you go? Mr. Espinosa. JI came to New Yorx. Mr. Blackmer. Did you. contact McLaney? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, I did. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 3Qfy"th STREET, S.\W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 (202) $54-2345
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 25 HW 54756 Mr. Blackmer. 29 And did. you: explain to him that the Operation had been cancelled? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, for the time being. . Mr. Blackmer. What was his reaction?’ Mr. Espinosa. I explained it to him and I thought he was reasonable. Mr. Blackmer. After the June 15th raid was stopped by the FBI, did you contact Mike McLaney? Mr. Espinosa. Of course. Mr. Blackmer. What was his reaction to that? Mr. Espinosa. He was always a good gambler and he took things very philosophically. Mr. Investigation had, Mr. Mr. Blackmer. Espinosa. Blackmer. Was he upset that the Federal Bureau of in essence, infiltrated the operation? No. Was he aware that someone in the operation had leaked the information to the FBI? 24 DoclId: 32246514 Mr. Espinosa. Yes, we told him. Mr. Blackmer. What was his reaction to that? Mr. Espinosa. We told him we wanted to kill the guy, but he said, "No, you shouldn't do that." Mr. Blackmer. After your trip to New York and your contact with Mike McLaney, did you ever again propose a similar operation? | Mr. Espinosa. No. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 300 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 Page 30 :
HW 54756 10 11 12 13 14 15 17 18 19 20 21 24 DocId: 322746514 Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. yers doing the same Mr. Blackmer., “Espinosa. Blackmer. Espinosa. Blackmer. 30 Why was that? Well, you get tired of failure. Well, it was only twice at this time. It is only twice, but up to five or six thing. In 1962, there was a raid on a hotel in Havana, a shelling of a hotel in Havana by members of the DRE. Mr. Mr. Espinosa. Blackmer. It was 1966. No, 1962, by members of the DRE, which was an anti-Castro exile organization at the time. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. that raid? Mr. Espinosa. sure. Mr. Blackmer. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. Udalia Mayar. Did you ever Mr. Mr. Espinosa. Blackmer. Yes. Were you familiar with that raid? No. Did you know that Carlos Hernandez was on I have heard that he was, but I wasn't Did you know Manuel Salvat? I can't recall. Also on that raid was an individual named hear of that individual? I think so, yes. And do you recall what you have heard ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 300 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 Page 31
bar — 1 about that individual? 2 Mr. Espino a. NO. 107) 3 Mr. Blackmer. Were you aware at any time of any 4 organized crime efforts to sponsor similar raids similar to § the one that you were on? fs] Mr. Espinosa. No. 7 Mr. Blackmer. when you were living in Havana and 8 frequently in the Hotel Nacional, did you ever know an 9 individual named Norman Rothman? 10 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 11 Mr. Blackmer. What was the nature of your relationsnip 12, with him? 13 Mr. Espinosa. I just saw him a couple of times; that is. e 14 all. 15 - ' Mr. GBlackmer. Did you not in fact Know his son? 17 Mr. Espinosa. Yes. 18 Mr. Blackmer. And did you know his son in Havana or 19 Miami? 20 Mr. Espinosa. I met him in Miami. 21 Mr. Blackmer. Was there a particular hotel or bar that 22 you used to meet? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, there - was 2a bar in 2 notel in Miami 3 ’ 24 Beach. . He used to have this bar, and I think wa called nim. 25 "Cappy," his nick-name, and we used to go quite often to nis ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DocId:32246514 Page 387.4, staest. $.w. REPORTERS BUILDING. WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 (202) 354-2245
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 24 25 HW 54756 DoclId: 322746514 23 bar. Mr. Blackmer. occasion? Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. .the elder Rothman? Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. a ine) And was the elder Rothman there on fayde a couple of times, yes. But you had no specific association with No. And at no time did Norman Rothman nave need of your services as far as implementing any clandestine activities? Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. BlacKxmer. Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. No. So, it was just Mike McLaney. Yes. Did you know an individual named Frank I don't think so. In Havana once again, did you have any contact with the American Embassy witn respect to your. underground activities? Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. wno had connections Mr. Espinosa. Mr. Blackmer. Rolando Cubela, nad No. Did you Know any individuals in your grceup with the American Embassy? No. Did you Know whether or not your friend, any contact with the American Emdassy? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Page A874 STREET. SW. REPORTERS BUILDING. WASHINGTON, 0:C. 20024 (202) $54-2345
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 25 24 ad tad” Mr. Espinosa. No, Mr. Slackmer. Did you nave any contact with tne oO ra?) a} ct | 2 he Intelligence Agency in Havana? Mr. Espinosa. Not many, but from a zgood friend of mine, yes. Mr. Blackmer. Who was that? Mr. Espinosa. Carlos Tepedino. I don't Know for Sure ne Was an .agent. Mr. Blackmer. Tepedino was a friend of Cubela, and ne had contact with the CIA? Mr. Espinosa. JI cannot tell you for sure if he had contact with the CIA but this is what we all believed at the time. Mr. Blackmer. Is there any individual that you may have Suspected that ne had contact with? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr, Blackmer. Have you heard of an individual named David Phillips? Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Did you ever see Frank Sturgis at any of the gambling casinos in Havana? ° Mr. Espinosa. No. Mr. Blackmer. Were you aware of any of Frank Sturgis' activities with Fidel Castro prior to Castro's take-over? Mr. Espinosa. No. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, © HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 47th STREET, S.\W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, 0.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
34 1 Mr, Blaeckmer. Do you know an individual named Gerald 2 Patrick Hemming? 3 Mr. Espinosa. I think I met him once or twice in Miami. Mr, Blackmer. And did you have any dealings with 5 Hemming? 6 Mr. Espinosa. .Notning at all. 7 Mr.. Blackmer. What did you know about Hemming? 8 Mr. Espinosa. Nothing. What. we thought we. knew about 9 him is that he was always mixing with the Cubans that were 10 trying to do something but the word was he was working for the 11 FBI or CIA or somebody, and no one ever took him very 12 seriously about anything or confided in nim for anything. 13 Mr, Blackmer. Where were you on November 22, 1963? Yd) 14 Mr. Espinosa. That was the assassination? 15. Mr. Blackmer. Yes. 16 Mr. Espinosa. In New York. 17 Mr. Blackmer. When you learned of tne assassination--and 18 I assume you saw newspaper articles and television coverage of 19 the assassination--did you recognize Lee Harvey Oswald. as 20 having seen him. before? 21 Mr. Espinosa. No. 22 Mr. Blackmer. dad you heard anything after the 93 assassination from any of your friends in the Cuban exile 24 community that may have implicated any one of the old Cuban 295 exiles in the assassination? ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 3407:h STREET, SW. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C, 20024 {202} 564-2345
11 - 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 AW 54756 Docld:32246514 Page 36 Mr. Espinosa. ‘No, never. Mr. Blackmer.. After tne Bay of Pigs, what was the reaction to him of the Cuban exiles that you knew? I am sure they were very disappointed. and were many of them violently angry against Kennedy himself or the U.S. Government? Mr. Espinosa. Not really against him, against the CIA mainly or against the government and not against Kennedy. Mr. Blackmer. What was their general feeling as tne cause of the failure of the Bay of Pigs? | Mr, Espinosa. The CIA. Mr..Blackmer. How do you mean? Mr. Espinosa. Well, -snould I go into this a little? Mr. Blackmer. Yes, [I think so. Mir. Espinosa.. When the question was risen by the pilots in Guatemala, if you are going to go to the Bay, go in with a B-25 or B-26. 8-26, let us say, is a tactical bdomoer plane and now this kind of plane, if I remember, it has eignt 50-caliber machine guns in the nose and two in the tail and so on. And in order for this plane to fly from Guatemala to Cuda we) QO and be able to have a feeder for minutes operation in tne area and bomb or machine gun for 30 minutes and come back to tad Guatemala, all of this ammunition and all of the macnine guns Nave to be taken from the plane and put additional gasoline tanks in. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Mh OSTDCST Siar DEDNO TIO BI NINIZ SAP A QUEENIE NO ARANDA FOND RR4A.9IA5
20 21 23 25 36 So, the question was aroused -- and how do you say in English -- it was raised of what happens when we get there - without any fighter protection and the planes are going to be in the air and they are going to be knocked down? So, the answer to that was that there were going to be two or three bombing raids and one in San Antonio Bay in Havana and another one in another place and another one in Valdo Beach at the airport, and just destroy it and make it a pretentious strike and destroy Castro's air force on the ground. SO, everybody was very content with this explanation, and the strike took over and Roa, who was a Cuban ambassador to the United Nations, made a big fuss at the time. So, there was a big fuss in the United Nations and they came up with the pictures of the planes, and then it was found that this story that the air force had been bombed by Cuban pilots belonging to Fidel Castro's army who had defected, it was a lie because the models of the Cuban planes were a different model; like you have a DC-9B or DC-9C, or is that right? So, when Stevenson, who was ambassador to the United Nations -- when he went to Kennedy and the third strike was called off, which left Castro with about two or three planes were left as a consequence of the Stevenson convincing the president at a time. to call off ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, HW 54756 DocId:32246514 Page 3 7th STREET, S.W. REPORTERS BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C; 20024 (202) 584-2345
\ HW 54756 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 H Mr. Hornbeck. What was the first name? Mr. ESpinosa. Nutosa. Tnere was Joe Westorook and tnere was--[ cannot remember his name now and he is dead anyway,. and all of the people that. were tnere. Mr. Hornbeck. So, did the groups divide into these four areas with specific targets in mind? Mr. Espinosa. Yes, one group was going to take care of Usalace who was chief of police and we were the youngest ones and we got the easiest one, who was Blanco Irco, and then tne others were together going to take care of Taberinalla. Mr. Hornbeck. What position did he nold? Mr. Espinosa. The army chief. Mr. Hornbeck. Were any of these groups successful in carrying out their targets? Mr. Espinosa. Yes. Mr. Hornbeck. Of the grouos, which ones were successful? fr. Espinosa. . Our group; we were the one who got lucky first. | Mr. Hornbeck. What was to be your particular role in the assassination of Blanco [rco? Mr. Espinosa. ‘Just to stay in tne car and worked with a gun over tnere to see if someone WaS coming. Mr, Hornbeck. Can you describe just driefly what occurred tne day he was killed? Mr. Espinosa. Rolando called me and I was not at home. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, Docld: 322746514 Page 50 aan CRN mR MRR OTN Tt IAI LAP AOE HIAIE TAAL OR ARANDA [AAD fra ates