180-10131-10339 v9.1 AGENCY : RECORD NUMBER : RECORD SERIES : AGENCY FILE NUMBER : ORIGINATOR : FROM: TO: TITLE: DATE: PAGES: SUBJECTS : DOCUMENT TYPE: CLASSIFICATION : RESTRICTIONS : CURRENT STATUS : DATE OF LAST REVIEW : OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : JFK Assassination System Date: 10/19/20 Identification Form , Agency Information HSCA 180-10131-10339 SECURITY CLASSIFIED TESTIMONY 014739 Document Information HSCA GOOCDPASTURE, ANN 04/13/1978 155 CIA, FILES CIA, METHODOLOGY OSWALD, LEE, POST RUSSIAN PERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO MEXICO GOODPASTURE, ANN, TESTIMONY BEFORE THE COMMITTEE CIA, STAFF TRANSCRIPT Declassified 1B Redact 02/01/2003 Box 9 HW 50955 DBocld: 32277224 Page 1
cIONEYamt / | 1-1 rt EXECUTIVE SESSION | /®@ 2 88 | ; THURSDAY, APRIL 13, 1978 gn i i i The Clerk. Mr, Chairman, you, Mr. Thone, Mr. Sawyer 5 ; U.S. House of Representatives, i . 2 3 | Subcommittee on the Assassina- a i tion of John F, Kennedy of | iS 7 the Select Committee on = a Assassinations, e = 3 ; | Washington, D.C. | ' “ i . ‘0 The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:15 a.m. Z | in room 1310, Longworth House office Building, Hon. Richardson : a; Preyer (Chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding. : a Z 1 Present: Representatives Preyer, Dodd, Fithian ‘and : ; Sawyer. | é a Also present: G. R. Blakey, G. Cornwell, E. Berning, : : 7 D. Hardway, B. Wolf, M. Goldsmith, R. Morrison, R. Genzman, : = ai K. Klein and W. Cross, : fi . Mr. Preyer. ‘The Committee will come to order. : : a The Chair recognizes the clerk of the Committee to nead | é 39 us a record of those members who are officially designated | 2! to be on the Subcommittee today, pursuant to Committee Rule ; OES 2 12.3. | 5, | and Mr. Dodd are regular members of the Subcommittee, Mr. ' 33 | Fithian will be substituting for Mrs. Burke. 001142 HW 50955 DBocla: 32277224 Page 3
Mr. Preyer. Thank. you. The Chair will entertain a motion to go into Executive ob 3 Session at this time. a 4 Mr, Sawyer. I so move, Mr, Chairman. 3 5 | Mr, Preyer. There has been a motion that today's 5 : | hearing,cone that the hearing be held in Executive Session. § 7 This is on the basis that information obtained by the S 7 Committee, that the evidence or testimony may tend to degrade : 5 | or incriminate people. — : 10 | The Clerk will call the roll on the motion. : us The Clerk. Mr. Preyer? 3 12 | Mr. Preyer. Aye. | © : 7 : The Clerk, Mr. Thone? = ic (No response) : 13 | The Clerk, Mr. Sawyer? = | Mr. Sawyer. Aye. ‘A 7 The Clerk. Mx, Dodd? : "| (No response) a | . E Io | The Clerk. Mr. Fithian? 5 20 | Mr. Fithian. Aye. | . 2 wo ThecClerk. Three ayes, Mr.- Chairman. é ed 22 Mr. Preyer. The meeting is declared closed and the a9 | ~ 3 room will be cleared of all unauthorized personnel. Are you ready to call the witness at this time? Mr. Goldsmith. I have some statements I would like to | 001144 3 ALBERSOM BEPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DBDocld: 32277274 Page 4
| make off the record. | = 2 (Discussion off the record.) \ 3 | Mr. Fithian. Would the witness. please stand to be { . © , | sworn? = ° i Ms. Goodpasture. I have one problem. I cannot hear. 1 3} “6 | Mr. Fithian. Can you hear if I come through at this ~ i & 7 | level? = 3 _. Ms, Goodpastrue. Yes, I use.a hearing aid. It is not S an ‘always reliable. I do-not want you to waste my time and I Fad i ; z 10 H do not want to waste too much of yours. = i i - Mr, Fithian. We will need to swear vou in, Ms. Good-~ _ 1 | Pasture. em a @ ¢ 3 i Ms .:Goodpasture. Do you want me to stand? “ ‘ | Mr, Fithian. Yes, please stand. ine zou é ‘3 4 Do you swear thatethe information you are about to cod tA “ - i" give to this Committee is the truth, the whole truth and = i wi : orn) i v | nothing but the truth, so help you God? z Ms. Goodpastures Yes. ~ o = 20 | SS NS aa: fie’ 22 . HW 50955 ho Lay (001145 ALZERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
TESTIMONY OF ANN GOODPASTURE — i Mr. Goldsmith. Would you state your name and address for the record? Ms. Goodpastrue. My name is Ann Goodpasture. My local | te address is with friends in Maryland, 5600 Bridgeview. 7 | i My mailing address, at the moment, is in care of my Na father in Livingstone, Tennessee. oOo Mr, Fithian. If I may, now that we have your name on C., 270026 (©2702) S$5u-2945 the record and your address, I would like to -explain our Db proceedings here, Miss Goodpasture. The House Resolution 222, under which this Subcommittee | VALHTHGTON , . - | - acts, mandates that the Committee conduct a full and complete | investigation and study of the circumstances surrounding the | assassination and the death of President John F. Kennedy including determining whether the existing laws of the United | i REPORTERS HEED OG , H t States concerning the protection of the President and the § ~~ investigatory jurisdiction and capability of agencies and i SPREET, on and whether there was full disclosure of evidence and informa-'! t 300 7TH i | departments are adequate in their provisions. and enforcement; | | | thon among agencies and departments of the United States | government; and whether any information or evidence not in i i ! ‘ the:pessession of an agency or department would have been of — i assistance in investigating the assassination; and why such o . | information was not provided or collected by that agency or | department; and to make recommendations to the House, if the | : ALRERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 59955 Docla:32277224 Page 6
L | Sdlect Committee deems it appropriate, for the amendment of nN I existing legislation or the enactment of new legislation. aah I would like, because of the special.expertise of this 4+ witness, if counsel will withhold for just a moment, say a wa gations in which we are now engaged, and I look forward to 3 a word or two about the process that we are engaged in. 3 8 First, we commend you for your long years of service z os 7 to a very, very important agency of this government. 1° : 7 personally was a part of that in a very, very small way in : | the Navy a long time.ago, and I commend you for your dedica- = | z= a tion and your experience and what has come to be your reputa-~ | ie i = a tion for, as we have talked with other members of the agency, . Bo they have referred to-you. as sort of the touchstone, or the a. 13 i person who was the ‘expert among the experts. : 4 I want to say also that I personally want to commend : | our Chief Counsel, Professor Blakey, and our assistant : I3 | counsels for their long and dilligent. effort to build a “ "| relationship with the agencies which is now beginning to be : 8 extremely productive and fruitful in our whole process of i I E vo trying to get all the in formation and to lay the matter of = 20 the assassination of the President of the United States to’ Se rest permanently with the complete story. o aw ~ I just wanted you to know that we have. been working “ with the CIA and the FBI and they have been very cooperative @ aa with us. as well as the State Department in? the two investi- i Jf —— | 001147 : ALCERSOM REPORTING COMPANY, INC. LS sooss Bocld: 32277224 Page 7 ‘
~ your testimony today as a person of longstanding and long we experience with one of the key agencies in.the United — © gu eo States government and hope that we can proceed today to fit in some pieces of the mosaic that we are trying to assemble. 2 aa Counsel may proceed.. ) a ‘| Mr, Goldsmith. Miss Goodpasture, have you received a a. S a copy of the Committee Rules and the Committee Resolution? e Zz Ms .. Coodpasture. Yes, you gave me a copy yesterday. al Mrs Goldsmith. What is your present employment status, z an Miss Goodpasture? : my Ms. Goodpasture. - Pardon me? a : a | Mr, Goldsmith. What is your present employment status, @ z . i Miss Goodpasture? = | : a Ms. Goodpastrue, I am retired, E i Mr.Goldsmith. Were you formerly employed with the : 6 | Central Intelligence Agency? = 3 : : " ' Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, Z “| Mr. Goldsmith. What was your:term of service with the . = 19! : | CIA? “ Ms. Goodpasture. What was my term of service? rt Se Mr, Gobdsmith.. How many years were you with the CIA? Fae a4) : © a 7 | Ms. Goodpasture.. Over 31. 23 | Exhibit 94, Would the Clerk please hand that to the witness? ha aay | | i . | Mr. Goldsmith, At this time, I would like to refer to | ! Miss Goodpasture --. | t { 904448 : ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 — Docld:32277224 Page @
— Ms. Goodpasture. I read this yesterday. | Mr. Goldsmith. -- Exhibit No. 94 is a copy of a letter written by the present Director of Central Intelligence to the | - bab tn Chairman of this Committee. I believe a copy was given to tn you yesterday, is that. correct? | ° | _ Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. . Mr, Goldsmith. Did you read that letter yesterday? a Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. | Mr. Goldsmith. Did you understand that letter? | Ms. Goodpasture. Yes, | ny Mx. Goldsmith. “You indicated that you worked with the | 12 I | Central Intelligence Agency for 31 years, .Which branch within : | the CIA did you work for? — , i , { | Ms. Goodpasture. ‘For the entire length of time? I Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, | is | Ms. Goodpasture. Well, I worked for a number of | I different branches, But most.of the time I was outside of the 8 | United States and it came under what is now called the : | birector of Operations, or clandestine service. . I suppose # | that would be a more appropriate term, | A 300 7TH STREET, SS. REPORTERS BUELDTNG, HASHTNGTON, DLC. 2AN24 C202) S5-2345 KS | Mr, Goldsmith. Fine, EEs 55 | Po, <> eA | When did you retire from the CIA? tl Ms. Goodpasture, I think it was in June, 1973. 24 | . | a 1 Mr. Goldsmith. Miss Goodpasture, I am drawing your . attention to 1963. Where were you stationed at that time? | , — | 901149 : ALMERSOM REZORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 DBocld: 32277224 Page 9
1=8 . | at Ms. Goodpasture. Where was I stationed at that time? | ® 2 | Mr. Goldsmith. Yes, = _°Ms. Goodpasture.: Here in Washington. Oh, 1963? * | Excuse me. . | a ji Mr. Goldsmith. Yes. | a 4) Ms. Goodpasture. I thought you said ‘73. I was a t a» .! . 2 : & | stationed in Mexico City. : i = i. Mr. Goldsmith. In what-capacity were you stationed | 3 7% | in Mexktco City? = 10 Ms, Goodpasture, I was a staff employee of the CIA . . ran Mr. Goldsmith. What were your responsibilities as a Me & is 1 staff employee at that time? - ‘ Ms. Goodpasture. I worked as a case officer on liaison Ee '3) projects with. the Mexicans and liaison with other government ~ ar agencies, represented in the Embassy. I did routine clerical a | office functions, originating correspondence, answering x ‘* | correspondence. | = 19] : - ta . | = | Mr. Goldsmith. What type of liaison work did you do fF 2] 2... - | | | | oN with the Mexican government? Ms. Goodpasture.. What type of Sse.500 wens els omit, “Mx. Golsmith. ---liaison work did you do with the | 2 us ee fs s. bab br Mexican government. Ms, Goodpasture, What type of inside? Wa tant Mr, Goldsmith, Liaison. You indicated that you did 001150 nD ix i ALDCERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. HW 50955 Docld:32277224 Page 10
liaison work withthe Mexican government. Ms. Goodpasture. -Electronic surveillance, 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Who was the Chief of Station? Ms. Goodpasture. Winston Scott. a 74) Mr, Goldsmith. Is it appropriate to refer to you as i i : 2 S| having been Winston. Scott's righthand man during your term. | a i . _ a 7 of service in Mexico City? . es 34 Ms. Goodpasture, I take exception to that. First of | J 5 all, I am not a man; and second, I think that his righthand | = (0 person was his Deputy who participated in all the decision- | = 4 . : ; i = .''-l making processes, which I did not, and acted for Mr. Scott = -in-his. absence. | c a nae A lot of people said that I was Winn's right hand because%c - ‘“ | ‘at times he asked me to do things for him that-he did not ask | 5 13 | other people to do. He depended upon me for certain projects | . Is | that he managed, or he wanted to manage, and I did the legwork. wn a if . - 4 for it. | = 3 i I would not say that I was his right hand in the entire | = 1g} = station. en Mr. Goldsmith. How many years. did you work in Mexico | © an Ms. Goodpasture, Eleven, i Mr, Goldsmith. Were you working with Mr, Scott that a. i / ra oO | entire time? ~ Ms. Goodpasture, Yes, He was the irst. 4445 p Se here first 0 0115 1 | ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld: 32277224 Page ii
1-10 Mr. Goldsmith. You indicatéd that you were not involved in the actual decision-making process. Were you | f privy. to the actual decision-making process? go .Ms.. Goodpasture,. It depended upon what it concerned. : ae: it was a project that I worked on, I participated in it, 3 - but if it were a station activity, I did not. S 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Did yow work at the station in Mexico = 7 City also involve occasionally making contact. with CIA agents uO | in the field? = 0 | Mss Goodpasture, Yes, ; | : nt Mr, Goldsmith. Would you give the Congressional panel | ; re an evaluation of Winn Scott's competence as the Chief of | @ : 3 Station? | = “ ey Ms.. Goodpasture. Well, I think that he was a very : sf conscientious man, he was a hardworking man, he expected | a a everyone else to do their work, he worked long hours. Some : ; | : v people felt, or expressed the opinion, in my presence, that 2 : 7 he was a hard worker and expected too much from employees, | E aa but. I do not think that that was really the case. He was | < — ° = a very conscientious man, an intelligent man. He. obviously | Kee had the intelligence for the post, or he would not have been | and assigned there. . | | to as re a et ‘ J no f} largest CIA stations in operation? bo in | | | 1 Mr. Goldsmith. Is the Mexico City station one of the | : j i | i | Ms... Goodpasture, At the present time, I do not know, OC115e ALDERSON REPORTING COMEFANY, INC. H¥ 50955 Docld: 32277224 Page 12
4-11 | | At that time, it was one of the largest ones in Latin America, | but not in comparison to the other places, I could not 1 { 3 | comment on the size of the other places. | a Mr. Goldsmith. What kind of attitude did Mr. Scott 2 ‘| have towards the importance of files and recordkeeping systems - 7 at the Mexico City station? | g "| Ms. Goodpasture. He was very conscientious. ‘He wanted | S / them maintained accurately ‘and completely. : | ' Mr. Goldsmith. How long were the files that he main- : Io | tained preserved? 3 : 1 _ Ms. Goodpasture. Well, I am not too sure about that. 3 i2 They were there up until the time that I left, but I think | > : 13 that there was a reduction because of space in 1969. ‘The | g 1d files were cut back, but I do not have firsthand knowledge : is! of that Because I did not participate’in it, 2 = 16 i; Mr. Goldsmith. During the time that you were in Mexico | “i 7 | City with Mr. Scott, to your knowledge was anything ever | ~ ' : a] thrown out oF destroyed from the Mexico City station files? | = | | Ms, Goodpasture. Well, several things were destroyed : = v0 | that were not considered of any value as far as the work at : see that time was concerned. We looked at it more or less like | SSS | © YR ** | keep cash register receipts for a grocery bill. There was a | . ! | limitation of space on just how long you could keep certain things. fy a i But there were no documents that were a part of the 001152 HW 450955 Docld: 32277224 Page 13
l=12 1 | official files that could be destroyed without. a certificate 7 of destruction being made. That. did not apply to our rough | | “notes that we made, But you could not take a file out, go | . 4 through it and tear it up because you did not like something | Bos) antes a | ! 3 go Mr, Goldsmith, It Has been said of Mr. Scott that i g 5 | during his tenure in Mexico City not even a shred of paper x 3 | was thrown out or moved from the Mexico City station files, S $ | Would you say that is an accurate statement? | : 10 | Ms. Goodpasture, Some. of the rough paper was thrown 2 : ry out, the rough paper that he considered supporting data for a | 5 12 | dispatch that he Had written or a cable that he sent, he kept.) o> 13 He insisted that other people do the Same thing. - Mr. Goldsmith, Fine.. REPORTERS BUTLDING, 1s At this. time, Io am going to get into the area of the | is surveillance operations in Mexico City, | ~~ i : 4 7 | Miss Goodpasture, what kinds of surveillance operations | : s | dia the CIT have in Mexico City in 1963 with ‘respect to the : - = | Soviet and Cuban consulate and embassies? : ~ € 20 MS, Goodpasture. Well, we had electronic surveillance, == 21 | wixetaps, witich covered telephone conversations, © pee Mr, Goldsmith, If I may interrupt you for a moment, could 23 you possibly raise the mike closer to your mouth so that. we : | @ 2¢ might hear you better? | | 23 | Ms. Goodpasture, _ We had electronic surveillance, ' | |  goi1sd i ALDERSON RESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW §0955 Docld:32277224 Page 14
; . 1-13 who went. down there driving a car with a U.S. license plate | 1 | wiretaps on the telephones in. the Soviet Embassy, and we had | 4 photographic surveillance, 3 There was also what they | called foot surveillance. at ag) 4 | times, when people were interested, they could find out where | = 5 they were staying, where they went from the Soviet Embassy. z ; Mr. Goldsmith. That would be physical. surveillance? E 7 Ms. Goodpasture. Right. z 3 Mr. Goldsmith. Turning first to the area of photographi 3 surveillance, what was the purpose of the photographic » | : - suryeillance project with regard to the Soviet and Cuban | S | , 2 i embassies and consuls? | : 12 | - Ms. Goodpasture.. My understanding of that was that it ! a 13 : was to be used to identify those people who.might be working | Td for the Soviets as espionage agents who were U.S. citizens | ! - | 6 |} on it, or people we did not know but could identify. i ; oo 17 4 The same procedure was also used for trying to identify | 18 ; people other than U.S. citizens, but it was concentrated in | i | ) 19 | | the beginning on license plates or numbers, or sométhing that } { 30n 7TH STREET, S.0. REPORTERS MUTLEING, A j j 39 | could be identified, | | | | Ke | Mr. Goldsmith. An attempt would be made to take pic- | © ax 22 tures of both the car, license plates and the occupants of : 22 the car, is that correct? , 34 Ms. Goodpasture.. Yes. 25 | Mr.Goldsmith. Fine. WW 50955 Docld: 32277224 Page 15
1 | = Turning now. to the photographic surveillance ‘operation | " | with regard to the Soviet Embassy and consulate, I would @ like to ask you, what role, if any, did you play with regards | | to. this surveillance operation during 1963? Ms,.Goodpasture. In 1963, I was more or less a bystander in de ; : | of that operation because the operation, at times, was conducted 5 7 by: another case officer. : I. screened and looked at the photographs because I had c 9 7 been there in the: early part of the operation where the — | S 0 i photograph bases were first set up, were first used, I had ! = u an interest in them, or looked at them to see that they were | . 2 in focus, that the negatives were all printed ; and Mr. so ! = é a Scatt. asked me to do that because I had been a commercial.-- ! : “ | photographer before I. went to work ‘for the government, 's Mr. Goldsmith, Axe you saying, in 1963, your roll : ‘s with. regard to the photographic surveillance at the Soviet ! . " | Embassy was to review: photographs, essentially to evaluate | | z 8 : their quality? | | | c 2 : Ms. Goodpasture, ‘Their technical quality. | ¢ 4 a | ‘Mr, Goldsmith; Not for the purpose of obtaining subse~ : aoe | quent. information from the photographs? | : ya Ms. Goodpasture, No, because, at that time, by 1963. 23 | | | there was a staff there who had been assigned to work on nd oe Soviet. matters. and it was.their function to. investigate the ho tan leads -~ we called them leads -= to try to identify the person’ | | 901156 : ALOSERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 50955 Docld:32277224 Page 16
| ana Tit STREET, GS. REPORTERS BUTLDTNG , HASHTHCTON, plc. 20024 €202) 8548-23945 {3p Al aS a ie ae dah oo NO “a. 'I noticed anything significant about them, I mentioned it to they would photograph the yard area and front entrance gate? 1-15 at the Soviet. embassy they were interested in, So all the raw material went to them. I usually took a quick look at the photographs when they came in, and if the Soviet case officer, but he gave the formal reporting on all the Soviet information. Mr. Goldsmith. I understand. How many cameras were in operation with regard to the photosurveillance of the Soviet Embassy and consulate? 7 Ms ¢ Goodpasture, Three. - There were three, generally. There could be any number. “if. we ‘wanted to put someon the street; but at. that time, I think there were only three. ‘Mr. Goldsmith. Where were these cameras located? Ms. Goodpasture, Where? Mr, Goldsmith. Yes. Ms. Goodpasture.. They were located around the building. the embassy building, to cover the area in the yard and in the front gate. a . | Mr. Goldsmith, So the cameras were situated so. that | Ms . Goodpasture. Yes. Mr. Goldsmith. During this period, was. your role with regards. to. this project at any time of a supervisory nature, actually supervising the project? © i ; Ms, Goodpasture, Informally it could have been interpreted O0115% ALOESSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
| 1-16. | : in that way, but I never had the responsibility for them | | alone. | 2 Mr. Goldsmith. As a practical matter, you were acting ~ | in an informal supervising capacity? | Ms, Goodpasture. It could have been interpreted that | way. by some of the people, because they would come to me and bring me photographs and say, what do you think of this, do ™ C. 29024 €202) S$5-2345 | you think that this is a hatin, or do you think he has ever | been to the Soviet Embassy before, ¢ zg 19 Mr. Goldsmith. In your own opinion do you think you | 5 |) were acting, at least informally, ina supervisory capacity | : V2 with regards to this project? _ | Gc - 2 Ms, Goodpasture. No. | = i . . | : ay Mr, Goldsmith. At this time, I would like for the E i witness to be given Stack C of the documents that have been | : Ie prepared, | | “ 7 | _ (Pause), | 3 “| I would like to draw your attention to page 2 of the | ze OT? : documents that. appear in Stack C. | < | 5 2 Ma, Goodpasture. Yes. ee" | Mr. Goldsmith. x would like to ask you if you can. : @e ™=* | identify that document. | a Ms‘. Goodpasture, This leoks like a copy of a cable sent aa 3% from the Mexico station.on the 8th of October, 33 Mr. Goldsmith, To whom would the cable have been sent? | a — god1ss SON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
2002" (202) S5H-2345 B.C, VAST LHC TON , BUTRDTING , REFGRTERS au. S 3 sw be oO ow mt Oo a) oo a rss & 3 WW 50955 Docld: 32277224 Page 19 41-17 Ms. Goodpasture. It was sent. to Washington. Mr Goldsmith. CIA Headquarters? Ms. coodpasture. CIA Headquarters. Mr. Goldsmith, I would like to have you examine the cable in more detail. I call your attention to the first paragraph. What does the term "the envoy” mean? | Ms. Goodpasture. What was that again? Mr. Gohdsmith. | I am sorry. I am drawing your atten- ‘tion to the first paragraph. Ms. Goodpasture. Yes. Mr, Goldsmith. The second word == - Ms. Goodpasture. Page two? - Mr. Goldsmith. Page two. There appears a word "the envoy." What does that word mean? | 'Ms. Goodpasture. That was.a cryptonym to identify the telephone surveillance, Instead of saying a telephone © -tap operation we used crytonyms for all of the things that involved assets outside that. could be identified, Mr. Goldsmith. I am not. drawing your attention to the upper lefthand corner of this document .. There appears the word "orig." “What does that stand for? | Ms. Goodpasture, The person who wrote the cable, Mr, Goldsmith, Does. that stand for originating officer? Ms, Goodpasture. Right. | Mr. Goldsmith, You say the originating officer is the. 001158 SON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
HW 50955 | ann 7TH STREET, SoH. REPORTERS BUTELOTNG, VASHYTAGTON, D.C. 202% (202) S6n-2945 rea) \ aa Ae { / TE es Bocld: BO oa 1-19 | people who picked it up than if the true name were on it. Mr. Goldsmith. | I. understand. de | Let us take a look at the lower righthand corner of this same document, It says, releasing officer, What is dae 'a releasing officer? Ms, Goodpasture. W. C. Curtis, That was a pseudonym 7 for Winston Scott. zi Mr, Goldsmith, Understood. 3 What is a releasing officer? What are his responsibil- | 19 | ities? oo i a Ms. Goodpasture, The supervisor, the person who decides t | | 12 i that the message should be sent; generally the releasing offi- iJ.) cer is the chief, the senior person there at the time, the ij , 6 | person who will assume responsibility for the message after 3 | it has been transmitted. 1s Mr, Goldsmith. The message would go -- . | / Fj Ms. Goodpasture, For instance, in an Embassy, if a on document goes to the communications. center signed by someone who is not thé senior person in the section, they will not | send it; just everybody cannot take a message to the message | center and say, send this cable to Washington. re ad So this is to make sure that. the Chief of the Section knows, that is: going on by everybody in his section, ire) “Mr. Goldsmith, I would not ike to draw your attention eo Lo Ss) tan | to page 5 of Stack C, That pertains to a different cable, but. - | 001161 ALDEESON REPORTING COMPANY, INC 32277224 Page 21
HW 450955 1-20 _ Simply for the purpose of clarifying terminology, I would like you to look at the lower righthand corner where it says, | | | i | "Authenticating Officer." | bo What. is an authenticating officer? way nw Ms. Goodpasture.. Well, this cable originated in Washington and in Washington there are more than one chief, so thé person who signs off on it. -- it may be a Branch Chief. 2N02% (202) 654-2355 au ~~ ; In this case, it was the Division Chief, S 9 | He approved sending the cable and then his superior | = ig réleased ity | = " Mr. Goldsmith. So the authenticating officer would:be : 2 . 12 | someone. under the releasing officer, is. that correct? | | : 13 Ms, Goodpasture. Well, to. be sure about that, you | : ‘é would have to check with the communications -peopke on their | : ‘3 | practices, but I think that sometimes it could be the sane. | : is | If. \ the ‘authenticating officer were the Section Chief, “ 7) then the. Section Chief coula also release the message. z S| . Mr « Goldsmith, Were you ever an authenticating officer? e aa Ms » Goodpasture; No. Well, I have signed off on cables a 20 | going out ‘from Headquarters at times; I..am sure, See Mr, Goldsmiths: Only from. Headquarters? | Pas oy Ms. Goodpasture. ‘The fact that you sign there as an ! 7 | authenticating officer does that mean that that is a title, : am It means that you were the person who were probably best ** | gngormed on that subject, I think, oo 7 ee | 904162 Docld: 32277224 Page 22
, oo | 1-21 Mr. Goldsmith. For purposes of clarification, is ty | 7 it the responsibility of the authenticating officer to verify | 3 the contents of the cable? co 4 : . Ms .. Goodpasture. It might be, I do not know. 2 5 | : Mrs” Goldsmith. ; What would the specific purpose of an | 5 j authenticating officer be? & 7 Ms. Goodpasture. I never went into that terminology | Na a = 3 ! with ‘anyone, : : a Mr.Fithian. Would the counsel permit a question? | : 0 | ”*”*«Mjw@GOldemith.. Yes, sir. | : 1 | | Mr. Fithian, In our Navy communications sytem, we 3 iz |} sometimes distinguished between an authenticating officer as Ep one who not only authorized the sending of the cable, but S12 | | Ei i authenticated or verified or vouched for, the content.. = 45 i Is that similar? ! z= 1s Ms. Goodpasture, That would be the literal interpre- = “OIF tation of the word.. Whether ornot it was used in air traffic | = '@ 4) all the time or not, I do not. Know.: ; | = I : My guess. would be that that is correct. 5 20 | Mr. Fithian. Do you know whether, in CIA traffic, | coe | you had to have hoth an authenticating officer and a releasing a — ve 22 i officer for a single message? | | - : . uke | | | 23 Ms. Goodpasture, I think that there were times when one | e 24 person could sign both places. | 4m Mr, Fithian, Thank you, counsel, | 001162 | : ALDERSOM SESORTING COMPANY, INC. HW 450955 Docld: 32277224 Page 23
1-22 Mr. Goldsmith, Would the phrase authenticating officer rey — appear only on cable traffic that originated at headquarters? ad Ms. Goodpasture. I do not know. You would have. to compare the field forms and headquarters forms to be sure y fa = $j of that. 2 ‘| Mr. ;Goldsmith. On those occasions when you acted as : 74 authenticated officer, did you see your purpose as being that 5 ; of verifying the contents of the cable for accuracy? 3 | Ms. Goodpasture.” Yess" Bae ps rose tnge te : bs May Goldsmiths wouldlike to: go“now-t6 page 2-0f:0 os a Z 1) | the documents. contained:in Stack C and I would like you to | | S: a read the:second paragraph. | | e = id (Pause) | : L Ms, Goodpasture, Yes, | 2 Is Mr, Goldsmith, - Was the photograph referred to in this 2 ie paragraph obtained by the CIA's photo surveillance operation : soy | of the Soviet Embassy? | | : ie | Ms... Goodpasture, Yes. E a Well, this message has a mistake in it which was not - | = 20 i noted at that time in paragraph 2, and that is the date, | ae a eee | Mr. Goldsmith, We will get to that later on to clarify oe 23 Would you tell the Committee what the scope of the | ‘> 28 | coverage of. the Soviet Embassy and consulate was? By that, | * mean in Septenber and Octobex, 1963, at. what times were che | : | | 001164 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. H¥ 50955 Docld:32277224 Page 24
i i : ; 1l=23 ! | ‘Soviet Embassy and consulate under surveillance? | 2 | | Ms. Goodpasture. I cannot give you the exact times, | 2 | I can guess, and my guess is that they were open most of | | : the time when the consulate was opened for business hours. | 2 | But the person who would have. that information, the only : | person who would know, is the case officer who was handling | g 7 the project at that time. _ | S 7 Mr. Goldsmith, “Even though you were acting in what you | : | regard as an informal supervisory capacity, you do not | : ia | recall? — 7 : | : is 7 “Ms, Goodpasture, No, because a year ago I tried to. | 3 12 | find that specific infermation from the records and I could | © 5 13 not find it; and I do not know, Tr -am sorry. ‘I cannot answer ‘i : ia that. = o Mr. Goldsmith, Fine. aan I am sorry, It has just Been drawn to my attention that) : v we should clarify -+ | : e Ms. Goodpasture, Iodid not. answer that paragraph 2. i = 19 | r noticed that. Photograph, yes. ‘That. was’ my fault, not yours. g cae wanted to correct that date so you would not get the inpres- meg," | sion t that. there was a photograph. on the lst of October. because OSE ! > fe zt the photograph was made on the 2nd of October, but it was made "2 | by the surveillance fromthe Soviet Embassy, | © | 2 Mr. Goldsmith, Fine, 2: ! You indicated that the ‘scope of the coverage, to your 001168 HW. 50955 Docld: 32277224 Page 25
_ l=24 knowledge, was probably at such time as the Soviet Embassy BD and consulate was open, in other words; working hours. Is | . that correct, to the best. of your knowledge? Ms, Goodpasture. I. think that it was at working hours. | Mr. Goldsmith. What were the working hours of the Soviet ge dsy Embassy and. consulate in September and October, 1963? Ms. Goédpasture,. I- donot: know, as 20024 (202) $5%-2945 H ; Mr. Goldsmith. How many years did you. work in. Mexico S ; = 10 | Ms. Goodpasture. Eleven. | : nl Mr.. Goldsmith. Working in Mexico City for eleven. a = M2 years and you do not know what the working hours were? — | ¢ "| © : 1S | Ms. Goodpasture. The Soviet Embassy changed their = i : nO working hours frequently, Their consulahe might: be ‘open from | : i 8:00 to 10:00 on. Mondays, Wednesdays and Pridays or they } ; iS might change it from 10:00 to 12:00 on Tuesdays and Thursdays. “ 7 | But for me to. say now that in September, 1963, without having | : ah document to prove it, that. they were open from 10:00 to | | | £ aa 12:00 would be rather foolish because I really do not kt#ow | = 20 | what their hours were at that time. Mr. Goldsmith. Let us refer to a document, then. will | | | 1 | the Clerk hand the witness Stack D? | | | t I 23 . 7 - 7 | Drawing your attention to page 3 =~ @ i ‘Ms, Goodpasture,. Right,» 7 Mr, Goldsmith. In Stack D, can you identify this - | it : i O01165 ALDERSOM REBORTING COMPANY. ING. | HW 50955 Docld:32277224 Page 26 ‘=
he would give it to Herb Minnel directly, Mr. Goldsmith. Is it true that | | responsibility | ao _ 3 | in this area was simply to do the leg work on the project, | | 4.) that. he himself was not really in. charge of the project? | “ & 7 “Ms. Goodpastuxe. ‘Nl, he managed the projects also. He | 3 | had complete supervision of the projects, as well as the leg- a» | S ml works } | : 7 “The production, the material that was produced as a ¥ a result of the project, was. not hig responsibility. That was | z oy Mx. vknnel's< | a } = a Mr, Goldsmith,. Who was involved in setting the require! : rae ments. on policies with regard to the running of the project? | @ : A Ms, Goodpasture, | " "| | : aa Mr. Goldsmith. Are you certain that the person respon- | 3 He sible for that was not yourself? | be bo . : * | Ms:.. Goodpasture. Pardon me? ‘ " Mr. Goldsmith, Are you certan that you were not | 2 8 | responsible for setting those requixements and policies? | = a Ms, Goodpasture. Are you referring to asking people | ° 70 | to asking for coverage over a specific investigation? | see Mr. Goldsmith. My question is directed towards whether | © and # you were involved in a supervisory capacity with setting the * i requirements and policies as to how the photosurveillance : 24 . & , “ i operation would Be run, | ~ Ms. Goodpasture, I talked to him about it, but this 001177 aT HY 4S0954 Docld: 32277224 Page 37