JFK. Assassination System Date: 4/29/20) Identification Form Agency Information v9.1 AGENCY :..SSCIA RECORD NUMBER: 157-10014-10084 RECORD SERIES: HEARINGS AGENCY FILE NUMBER:  11-H-03 Document Information ORIGINATOR: . SSCIA FROM: TO: TITLE: DATE: 05/10/1976 Released under the John PAGES: 43 - Kennedy WSsassination Records SUBJECTS - ollection Act of 1992 . — ALPHA (44 USC 2107 Note). LP 66 ase#:NW 55510 Date: CUBA 4-05-2018 CENTRAL AMERICA ARMY INTELLIGENCE DOCUMENT TYPE: .. TRANSCRIPT CLASSIFICATION : . Top Secret RESTRICTIONS : - Consulted CURRENT STATUS: | Withhold DATE OF LASTREVIEW: - 04/21/1998 OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : Box 4 | HW 55510 Docld:32423472...Page 1
ae anna “TESTIMONY. OF: Ce se Milford: Paul Hubbard ae Wha he FAS, *" & o tf g a é é e & Fs tk a Es ws vi we : ra % & a o a
United States _ Select committee to Study Governmenta Intelligence Activities Washington, 0. © af The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:15 o'elock n p.m, in Room 608, the Carroll Arms Hotel, the Honorable % Richard S$. Schweiker presiding. 3 Wart & PAU L Present: Senator Senweiker (présidiny). Operations with Respect | | ' | | Also present: dim Johnston and Michael Epstein, Professional epaff Members. ns peeps BYG Cape Street, 6.2. Washenatan, thE. P0643
J 2 « & @ o 3 a8 = 416 Fest Street, OE. Wasrungtan, T.0, 2OG08 Senators Schweiker” colonel in accordance with tradition, we swear all-our witnesses, so will. you Stand and’ baise your right hand, please? De you sclemnly swear the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 80 help you God? Mr. Hubbard. Ido. Senator Schweiker. . Be seated. Me. gohnston.. Would you state your full name and address for the record, please?
“Mr. Hubbard. Milford Paul Hubbard, Liberty, Indiana. The ZIP on that is 49353. Mr. Johnston. And you retired from the Army as a Lieutenant Colonel, is that right? - Mr. Hubbard. Right. Mr. Johnston. With military intelligence? Mr. Hubbard. Military intelligence. Mr. Johnston. How long had you served in the Army? Mr. Hubbard. At the time of my retirement I had 22 years, six months, 15 days, something like that. Co 3 N cy oe € 13 Mr. Hubbard. 31 March 1973. es ae Og 14 Mr. Johnston. What branch were you in in the Army? “ 15 Mr. Hubbard. Military Intelligence at the time of my at rn 16 retirement. Mr. Johnston. Were you connected with operations directed at Cuba for Army intelligence? Mr. Hubbard. Yes. Me. Johnston. And would you briefly describe the time period you were involved with those operations and the puryos. of the operations? Nr, Hubbard. All rigau. This is fairly approximate. le ! Mr. Johnston. And when did you retire? i 4 | t 416 Forest Street, $.£., Waihington, G.C. 70003 August of 1962 to December of 1963, I was a member of the Puerto Rico station, a subordinate element of Detachment A TOP-SECRET sr tueimenmrnety ete seme eh esr recta eaeananenteneesUeteensinenenneNeie |
2 Oo o p & LO Al lz is WARD & PAUL 14 15 16 iv 18 19 29 2l 22 25 a4 416 Fust Street, $.£., Warrington, O.C. 26003 25 tt * “Department of the Army ne Dominican Republic, Haiti and Cubay Senator Schweiker. That Detachment 8 -~ Mr Hubbard. ~-That's “A for Alpha. " Senator Schweiker..} What does that mean,’ the three countries? Mr. Hubbard. We were broken down into teams, That was my geographic area of responsibility. Senator Schweiker. Detachment A meant those three countires? Mr. Hubbard. No. Detachment A had a worldwide mission, very small, very select group at that time, working directly for the Chief of Staff, the Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence. Senator Schweiker. Of which, Army? Me. Hubbard. Of Army, yes, sir. Senator Schweiker. Do you know offhand, did this wreinavely go up the chain of command to a Lansdale in Operation MONGOOS' above you, now? I realize we are going above your staff. Mir. Hubbard. I understand General Lansdale was bricfed on some of my material. TI persenally never briefed the General. I am sure that someone out of the Pentagon, Detachnent A or the ACSI staff passed this information on. I was tola informally General Lansdale had seen some of the reports. Sinampesiciionentnitesiennmemtente timc int ittSe canate nen RRERn NT ACNE
intell intel) 4 Mr. Hubbard. . (Nods in the affirmative.) «Subsequently 5 || the Miami station ‘received Cdast Guard small boat handlers, ane wy 6 || but it was an Army effort. They were just sent ‘in‘for).. “ ” support. ye 8 : Senator Schweiker. And what was Detachment A: worldwide 9 mission? 10 Mr. Hubbard. Sir, I don't know. It was strictly LL compartmented. a 2 12 Senator Schweiker. Okay. * & 2 13 Mr. Johnston. What was your mission from the Puerto Rican 4 = 14 station? L 15 Mr. Hubbard. Insofar as Cuba, we responded to requirement ee 16 Wa never unilaterally initiated an operation. We responded 17 to requirements. My first involvement with the Cubans was in 18 response to a requirement that picked up intelligence rumors g 19 about a frogman operation against a Soviet sugar ship in 3 20 Sago La Grande Harbor, Cuba, and which there was something : 21 _enusual about this ship. This was immediately following ths f 22 British commander, Crabb, as I recall.it, being «= his body l : 23 being found a few days after attempting to investigate a : 24 Soviet ship in London. His body was found in shreds. « 25 I received this requirement and-through the spotters I |
LR AO WHR Be Pat, AtG First Sii00t 6 E. Hasmagion, D.C. 20003 d2@ 13 14 L5 16 i? 18 19 20 ai Be 25 24 ory very’ definitely ha e as aig had a feeling he’ Was not a man’ to be teusted.” ‘a had a second in command,” and I'm not sure of the name now -~ ‘I was trying to think of it -» Hueget. Ralph was his first hame. Ha was allegedly a graduate of Georgia Tech. architec- tural school, a very sharp young man, and I dealt primarily with him because of the language barrier. Iwas sent to Puerto Rico station because of French, to work Haiti, and between French, arm and hand signals, and English, I could communicate with Cubans. But working with Hueget, they wanted us te support them, us being the United States intelligence community. I should regress. Although I was operating under a pseudonym, I very definitely let them know that I was military as opposed to CIA because CIA had had the flap on the Bay of Pigs. Menoyo had had many of the pecple the CIA had trained in the parachute school out on the Bay of Pigs thing, and the were very bitter, qhite bitter. So I let them know that I was Military support. Well, through negotiations, with iapprey at the Washington level, we agreed to supply them small arms, ammunition, rations permitting me to organize an intelligence net within their unit, to send agents into Cuba to develop a net within Cuba. This was progressing quite well. I had picked this Hueget as the team chief, to be the resident agent in Cuba, oa and medical supplies in exchanye for However, he +t eens ee tO REN
CRAG & FAW. 416 Fst Street, $.€., Washingion, 0.6. 20003 14 15 16 17 1é 19 20 al 22 24 25 Pn orien h at ane cr b Fained ‘him, recatved word’ chal Ms ee “ ; supplies en route “from Fort ‘Bragg. North’ ‘cazolina, to. Miant. I advised the Second Front of this: Everyone ‘redeived the news quite welcomely, In approximately two weeks I got the word that no, we would no longer support them, to advise them, and then I was placed in the awkward situation of saying I told them we cannot support them, but maintain our good relations. As a sad note, the night that I advised them of it, one of the Cubans became a little excited and pulled a knife and proceeded to rip up a beautiful new sportcoat I had. Senator Schweiker. Did you yet reimbursed for that? Mr. Hubbard. Wo, sir. I filed a voucher, and never heard about it. I maintained this contact at a much lower profile. Ther would have nothing really to do with us sincer we would not support them. Came up, and again, yentlemen, I do not Know the time Lane frame, President Kennedy decided that not only would we no Support them, but he wanted them stopped, and physically s because I had made two trips out there was the base cano, vou the smaller islands off the coast of Cuba where we had esvabi: caches and supplies. I drew a map and I don't know whether it was our Nev; the British Navy -- the British were involved to some Sud oraty ee * cenmimme eat pon sein neg erm wor goes
ana 4 hoe 760 i ee 41G Fest Street, S.£., Warhingion, O.C. 20003 10 il 12 iS 14 15 16 lv 18 19 20 21 22 ae 24 ‘well, I.was purned, to use ‘an intelligence term. They evacuated my family. ‘out of Puerto Rico and I was ‘evacuated out. I think it was either late. Novenber ‘or early December of "63, I had this one. subsequent ‘contact in” ‘approxi to Miami to turn over Hueget to a member of the Miami mately January.or February of '64 when I was directed to go | team and make a personal introduction. : Senator Schweiker. And who was that contact with, the new man? Mr. Hubbard. Yes, sir, and sir, I am not sure, but I think I turned him over to a Captain Stein, David E. Stein. Senator Schweiker. Did you have dealings with other groups than the Second Front of Escambray? Mr. Hubbard. Not of any significance, sir. That was primarily my unit. I met the leader of Alpha 66 on a one time, personal introduction basis, Veciana. T had no dealing with Alpha 66. There was a condiict between the Second Fro.: s of the Escambray and the Alpha 66. They were both recruitiune | men, support and money, and there was a rivalry between the two, @ach accusing the other of being pro-Castro, but misleas..:. the American public. i Senator Schweiker. Well, you were financing in some way. the Second Front of the Escambray, in other words, paying tier TOP SECRET_ ‘oan as
all 2 = 12 < a be 13 z 14 15 16 1? | oe 5 18 g 19 Sd é € 20 é FH al a a 22 3 a 2 2 24 3 the periodic wine and dine, take them out:to dinner, pick up AT ey the tab. Senator Schweiker. That was itt? Mr. Hubbard. That was kbout it. Senator Schweiker. Well, who was doing a aimilar thing te Alpha 66? Mr. Hubbard. As I recall, Alpha 66 was the bailiwick of CIA, but they let Army nibble on the edgea at the Miami station iothink Miami had received words of hands off of Alpha 66. Now I may be mistaken. Senator Schweiker. They said it was an Army operation. Mr. Hubbard. Well, if that is the case, it would go into the Miami station, and that was commanded by Duke Watlinusdn, Junius, J-ucn-i-u-s, Watlington, Wea-te-l-i-n=g-t-o-n, Senator Schweiker. What was his position at that time? Mr. Hubbard. He was the station chief, Miami station chie for Army. Senator Schweiker. If it wasn't the CIA, as you thought it might have been, why do you think it was the CIA station ahat might have had Alpha 66? Mr. Hubbard. Well, it would have fallen under his jurisdiction, yeographic responsibility, sir. Senator Schweiker, Well, I thought, as I understand you, onc sim ance ret il esonmaentnectre Se
aff a = 12 a ad t 13 2 14 15. 16 p 17 . 18 3 £ 19 i ‘ 20 g € § 21 7 bi 22 g 3 25 S 24 *- Cuba.” Mr. Hubbard. Well, we often had dual coverage of a country. Senator Schweiker. Do you remember a person who might have ised the eryptonym Bishop; that might have had: sone dealings with Alpha 66 or Veciana, Morris Bishop? Mr. Hubbard. No, sir. Most of us at that time, for security reasons, we knew each other in pseudoname. Very few of us knew each others’ true name. But we had a man whose true name was Bishop, but thas was subsequent, I am reasonabl, sure. : Senator SChweliker. He was an intelligence officer, you me. Mr. Hubbard. Yes. SenatorSSchweiker. What department did he work in? Mr. Hubbard. Sir, I dan't know. He was not a member of Detachment A, as I recall. Senator Schweiker. Did he work out of Puerto Rico stati! Mr. Hubbard. No. Senator Schweiker. Where might he have worked out of? Mr. Hubbard. le might have worked out of Panama. As I recall Bishop, his name was Lynn, Ley-ne-n, Major or Lieutena: Colonel Bishop. But I think he was on the intelligence staff in Panama. Senator Schweiker. For the ARmy? so htc staane tt emcont mim ent tanta ss ie nn itn +? ake
he Do. you re c “3 Senator Schweiker. call what he looked lik * 3] Mx. Hubbard. Yes, sir. He later servdd under’ me in é Vietnam. 5 Senator Schweiker. He did later serve with you in Vietnam 6 Do you recall did he look anything like that? 9 Mr. Hubbard, Wo, gir, he was bald. a Senator Schweiker. Okay. 9 Does that ring a bell with you on any peripheral contacts 10 you might have made during this period of time with anybody, il possibly somebody in the arms business supplying arms to the exiles? Mr. Hubbard. No, gir, but you mentioned arms. We haa BAAD & PA. Castro's fois.r Ambassador to London and Castro's first Minister of Finance that was my source, Burns, William Burns, a a earried dual citizenship, British and Cuban. He was Fabricue Nationale’s arms representative in Latin and Seuth America. Senator Schweiker. They were out of Belgium, were they? Mr. Wubbard. Yes, sir, Fabrique Nationale. % Senator Schweiker. Dees he look anything like that? se a a1 | Mr. Hubbard. No, sir. 8ut periodically I know that I ey) was going to use the cover on a trip into Haiti to interview } 2% or gain access to Duvalier, of traveling with Burns as his ' oa | weapons demonstrator. Burns, periodically on his weapons se... 1G Fiest Gleeet, 4.22, Washiigion, &.C. 76004 os trips would take someone who was proficient in the weapon renin ipsam oe erat eh OR
3 4 5 6 7 8 s 10 Cc ci 11 3 co ¢ 12 e @-: x: Bes 14 i 15 a 16 Mm 17 18 . 8 19 Q ¢ 20 2 & é 21 = 4 Re ¢ & 28 25 2 “erent IT LE ceramic iinet iene eee BESTE REE oe ora ane emer ag er be Owen Darnell. He was a beached captain representing Lykes Steamship Line, Puerto Rico. Senator Schweiker. Lykes? ‘Darnell, D-a-r-n-e-1l-l, a beached captain? Mr. Hubbard. He was a bona fide ship's captain, but he was on the beach. « Mr. Epstein. Was he working for you, Darnell? Mr. Hubbard. He was a source of mine. As I recall, he was born in 1908 in Colorado. He was married to a Cuban woman. I think perhaps because of health reasens, Lykes Steamship line took him ffom the ocean-going vessels, and made him their Puerto Rican chief. He was in charge of Lykes Steamship. Senator Sctweiker. How do you spell that? Mr. Hubbard. Lykes, L~y-K-e-s. It is a large steamship line here in the United States. Senator Schweiker. You're saying it is similar. You are not saying it is the same person. Mr. Mubbard. Yes, sir. The jaw is too square, but across the eyes, yes, sir. I am not saying that it is, but that is the only one that I can come up with. Senator Schweiker. What was his role again at the time that you met him? In other words, what was he doing there? Mr. Hupbard. He was spotting and assessing for me. TOP SEERET | “saison hii tana ct ts iene ek in ts ie
reo Ce ete Ae nator. y ond Ba - ‘Hubbard, 5. ‘access to the Second Front. 4 Senator Schweiker. Might he have had some dealings with Alpha 66 or Veciana? Mr, Hubbard. Sir, he very possibly did..'Wheii Veciana would come to Puerto Rico, he would definitely contact: Darnell. I think that he stayed at Darnell's on occasion.. That I cannot say for sure, but my belief is he did. a Senator Schweiker. Is he -- do you know where he is 'O: oe CL: located now? a Oe 12 Mr. Hubbard. No, sir. The last I knew he was in Puerto ys 4 13 Rico, San Juan. ,.O% c 14 Me. Epstein. Is there any other name he went under? © 15 Mr. Hubbard. No, sir. bw 16 Mr. Epstein. Was there a code name that he used? Bs 17 Mr. Hubbard. No. We did not assigne pseudonames for 18 spotters. There was no requirement. They were not operational { , \ 19 | Senator Schweiker. Tell me what you mean by a spotter. 20 | Mr. Hubbard. All right, sir. i The operational cycle, the people in the field get a 21 g 20 requirement that has been generated at the national level, they 23 | want to know something about a country. It gets down to the 24 Field. Now, we take it and say, all right, who has got access, ALG Twst Street, %E., Washington, D.C. 20005 who can get it. Well, most of us have spotters. We have
creas ‘activities, in a specific pro-American, Very anti-castro,’ ae vocal, on tt, in Puerto Rico beéause he had a Cuban wife. I broached him cold and 8 said, hey, look, . I represent, u. S. intelligence. With your 6 connections I might have ‘occasion to. call on ‘you,’ you know, 9 | he signed a secrecy agreement, the whole works, and was quite at proud of his periphery involvement. ~ Atid he was the one that put me in contact with the Second 10 || Front, and said, hey, I have heard some rumors about a frogman 11 || action where the man was sucked up into the belly of the ship. a = 12 | So he is the one that put me in contact with the Second = & = 18 Front. z 14 Senator Schweiker. And he would have had contact occasion 15 ally with Veciana, or he might have. 16 Mr. Hubbard. He might have. 17 Senator Schweiker. :You are not saying he did. 18 | Mr. Hubbard. No. 19 | Senator Schweiker. How about in terms of people you 20 || Worked with in your operation? 21 Would Bill Pauley have played any role, William Pauley, 22 former ambassador? 23 Mr. Hubbard. No, Senator Schweiker. And a sugar owner from Havana who was 24 J ALG Fest Stiest, SE., Wainingion, B.C. 20063 in Miami? 25 |
Mr. Hubbard. I heard the name ‘menti ned Miamistation. Senator Schweiker. But notdealings directly. Mr, Hubbard. I personally had,no ‘contact od 3 Senator Schweiker. | And a Robert Brown, who: I believe was working with Intelligence, might have been Army Intelligence at that time. ‘ 4 Mr. Hubbard, No. If it 18.his true nama, I’ possibly did not know him. Y Senator Schweiker. Now, there wasaT sd Mr. Hubbard. Havana. BARS & PAU, Senator Schweiker. What can you tell us about him? Mr. Hubbard. Very little. I met the man once. He was coming out when I was coming in. He had a reputation of being | @ teal wheeler-dealer, got a lot of things accomplished, but | I personally never served with him, for him, or no subsequent: | ‘ ' meeting. Senator Schweiker, In terms of satting up contacts, might he have set up some contacts, say, with Alpha 66 before | you arrived in August of '62? : My. Hubbard. Sir, if he was in my role, he had an obliga Ps 416 First Street, 6.€., Wasimgien, OC: 20663 to organize a stay-behind net, and he very possibly did.
\ Mx. Hubbard. You Bee Justice who was[_ assistant at that time, Mr. Epstein. who was that? 4 ‘| 8 Senator Schweiker, And his first name? Mx. Hubbard. [7 _] 9 Mr. Epstéin. What did'he do at the Department of “50 Justice? 2 Ll Mr. Hubbard. I think he is’ in Narcotics and Dangerous 12 | Drugs. CAME & PA19%, 13 Senator Schweiker. He was as istant tol _] Mx, Hubbard. He was = | but he was his right hand Senator Schweiker, In? JEK Act 6 (1) (B) Mr. Hubbard, In Navana. ON 18 Senator Schweiker. At the embassy. / | 19 So he was his right arm you say? 20 Mr. Hubbard. He was a stabllizing influence on tre[ 21 as I understand it. 22 Senator Schweiker, What kind of «= would | j there have | i been somewhat similar to the kinds of things you were doing? €16 Fit Street, G.£., Wasningian, O. 26003 ‘ Mr. Hubbard. Sir, I don't know. I have never been ~e
sienna ici ikea nna opmeese onaaeec oeairmmuaaan Senator Schweiker. For you folks? VJEK Act © (1) (B) Me. Hubbard. And I am sure he knew, the handwriting was on the wall there, at that time, prior to castro! Ss ‘takeover } and Z imagine he was quite busy attempting to Senator Schweiker. Did you ever hear of a Cuban intelli- gence agent by the name of Raul Diaz, D-i<a=2? Sdnator Schweiker. It doesn't ring any particular PS 2 = i @ 6 & @ * bells as far as any activities or work you had? Mr. Hubbard. Sir, I heard that there was one by that name in the Second Front that was allegedly a double agent of ¥ Castro's . Mr. Hubbard, Sir, that is a fairly common combination. Harvey Oswald, or sources? 7 . ‘ La Senator.Schweiker. In any of your work that you were § 19 carrying on at that time, had you ever directly or indirectiy | : 20 come in contact with Lee Harvey Ogwald to your. knowledge, pes . I Pal to the assassination, in any wa? fe : go Mr. Hubbard, Ne. | i on senator Schweiker. Did you ever hear any of your Cuban : 24 frlends talk of any contact they might have had with Lee | J
WARS & PAG, 410 Fist Street, 6.6. Washington, OC $0003 22 wy sone Re A hides down there attempting to: Join these groups," the name, . TO., Senator Schweiker. If the photograph there is of Mr. Darnell -- I'm not saying it is, but if it is, would the kind of contacts Darnell had be more with, you ‘than with the station chief, Watlington, in Miami? Mr. Hubbard. As far as I know, he would have no contact with Watlington, since he was in Puerto Rico. Senator Schweiker. I see. Ne was stationed out of ~~ where was he living at the time? Mr. Hubbard. In San Juan. Senator Schweiker. Okay. Sa he primarily would have beer under your jurisdiction at that time, Mr. Hubbard. Yes, sir. bes at Senator Schweiker, In fact, you reeruited him initia Mr. Hubbard. (Nods in the affirmative.) Senator Schweiker. Did Re speak Spanish? Mr. Hubbard. Yes, fluently. Mr. Epstein. vo we have the name of this company on the Yecord? Senator Schweiker. Yes, Lykes Steamship Line, and they
WARDS & PAUL * 3 8 = iJ g o e S S § 3 s u ri) f: 2 i a - % = « ° bl J 15 16 1? 18 i9 20 SELLS yaya We eee ox. Houston. It is a large steamship line, — Senator Schweiker, What about his. political ~- not his political philosophy but his general outlook? Mx, Hubbard. Quite ‘pro-American, very American; ' very proud of it. He insisted on ‘flying the flag off the balcony: every day on the compahy grounds. He had four or five flagpoles. As I recall, he was declared essential as a ship's captain during World War II, even though. he-had a Naval conmission, and he missed the war and he felt bad about it, even though he made the Murmansk run and things like that. Senator Schweiker. Well, he was out of the Navy. Mr. Hubbard. He never Served. He held a commission but he never served. Senator Schweiker. When You said a beach captain, I used to be in the Navy, and I forget what that mdans. Mr. Tubbard. Well, he was no longer on a vessel. He was onshore, Senator Schweiker, But he had never had an active duty Mr. Hubbard. Not to my knowledge, assignment. | Senator Schweiker. He had a Reserve commission, | ir. Hubbard. As I understand it, he held a Reserve TOP SECREI Conmission,
ag oF “Kennedy at the time; what his-feelings were? a "Mr. Hubbard. Well, because.of his close involvement with the Cuban situation, he was quite disappointed when the United States policy would not support the guerilla movements anymore, and especially when they had to police them up out of the Caribbean. I was burned on. He thought we were definitely on the wrong track. Co 8 4 & & # Me. Epstein. How were you burned on that? How were 460 | you personally burned on that? on Mr. Hubbard, Because I was the only American who had been V5 Mr. Epstein. So you were the guy that was giving the GRA Be ERI 4g) Message. 18 Mr. Hubbadd. I was the guy that drew the map for 16 President Kennedy, Colonel Boydt, and I believe Mr. McCone 19 briefed President Kennedy, or General Fitch, as I recall, with the ACSI, and they took my map in and President Kennedy was FY | 42 to all of the base camps, and it had to come from me. | | I i i \ | ‘ | 18 ' 230 gratulated the Army ACSI, said he wisheu it had been one oF i oe || his men as opposed to Army that had that degree of involveine.... Mr. Epstein. I don’t understand the map. Mr. Wubbard. I drew tne map of all of the base camps ALG Furst Street, 6.8., Marringian, D.C, 20065 | the Second Front of the Escambray. That's the way the Briw. oo: 4 ie Navy knew exactly where to go and pick up these people ar. 49 quite happy. Mr. McCone, I believe it was Mr, MeCone con- eee (ON BO Plage uss
11 12 13 2 2 *< a « a « « E 7 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 20 24 MIO Firat Street, $.€., Washington, 0.C. 20003 |. Johnston. ‘What month of ‘63 @as this? Mr. Hubbard. I have been aeorching oo | Mr. Johnston. Summer, early fall? Mr. Hubbard. As I recall, I-returned to Puerto Rico fromua trip. I returned on Thanksgiving day of 1963." ‘That is when I knew it and so did all of the people around me that I was burned and had to get out of there. Mr. Epstein, Excuse my ignorance on this, but what I understand you are saying is that some point a requirement was levied on you to draw a map of where all the base camps were that the Cuban exiles were operating out of, Mr. Hubbard. Yes. Mr. Epstein. That your understanding is that that map was Supplied to the British? Mr. Hubbard. It had to be because they knew exactly where to go from the Bahamas. Mr. Epstein. And that thereafter the British, upom:t'w- request of the American government, destroyed all the base camps ? Mr. Hubbard. The British were involved. I don't know if the United States Navy or Coast Guard was involved. 1 was in the process of evacuating my family and keeping them hidden. Mr. Epstein. And that happened in November of ‘63? Hubbard. November or early December of '63. TOP SECRET Mr. ¢ . Sires
¥ off of Andros on the west side that was the main camp there were six subordinate, were not manned, but they had supplies and gaches set up on the northern coast of Cuba. missed part of that. Mr. Hubbard. -As I recall, our Navy did not.. I think the _ United States requested the British because it was in the Bahamian area, the British Navy responsibility. 5 Senator. Schweiker. now, you presented a nap, and what dic MeCone say? TIomissed that part. My. Hubbard. Mr. McCone turhed to -- Ii believe General WRG Ge PAI. Fitch was the Army ACSI. He turned to him and congratulated him on- this and said that I wish that. one of my men had produced this instead of the Army. Senator Schweiker. For having this kind of a map kind of thing? Mr. Hubbard. Fer shaving the degree of contact and estab~ lishing tne confidence where they would take me. . Evidently 4 people had not received that degree of rapport after the Bay or Pigs. Senator Schweiker. And you're not suré when that meeting with McCone occurred, roughly? 416 Fist Street, $.2., Viethingion, 6.0. 26063 Mr. Hubbard... Well, it was.in President Kennedy's office,
ft 2 < ee = os. & et. F HIS Piet Greet; SE. Waningios, 0.€. 20002 163 it had to be. Mr. Hubbard. Well, seaons have no meanings to me in puerto Rico. I am lost without my seasons. "Senator Schweiker. But you would say late fall of. '63. Mr. Hubbard. ves, sir, 1!d say laterfall of 163. Senator Senweiker. You were in the Pregident's office? Mr. Hubbard. No, sir, I was advised of this subsequent to the meeting. | . Senator Schweiker. And who was there again, General Piteh Me. Hubbard. General Fiteh. Well, now, gentlemen, this has been several years, but I believe it was General Fitch, the Army ACSI, Colonel Boydt, the Commander of Detachment .A, and Mr. MeCone, and I was told that President Kennedy and the Attornéy General Kennedy were presént, the only two present when this was briefed to the President, yes, we did have our Map showing these locations. Senator Schweiker. And then they acted on that, and you're not sure exactly when that came off, buk as T recall there was a frame, and they were raiding Cuban canps in this country. Me. Hubbard. Yes, sir, and also off the coast of Maxie. Senator Schweiker. Wouldn't a person like Darnell have been very upset about something like that I think?
2 3 « a 7 o 3 «< s 416 First Street, $.E., Washington, 0.0. 20003. ‘Senator Schweiker Mr. Hubbard. Well, a lot of American were: - Mr. Epstein. Mr. Hubbard. About what meeting? Mr. Epstein. In the President's office. Mr. Hubbard. rt would have ¢ome through’ Detachment A. dottt know whether Colonel Roydt told me, actually. a think I received a teletype saying dongeatulationa’ resident happy. Or something like that. Mr. Epstein, ANd then you left, or had to. 6 Mr: Hubbard. -I was, as I say, burned... They gave me a staff job back at Fort Hollabird for -a year to cool off. Mr. Epstein. Have you had any. contact with any of the people you dealt with down there since leaving? M “My. Hubbard. Well, on the American side, yes, in the intelligence community. = Mr. Epstein. But none of the Cubans. Mr. Hubbard. None of the Cubans, no. Mr. Johnston, boes William Burns~look at all like this picture? Mr. Hubbard, No. Johnston. Are these men tall? Hubbard. Darnell ois.
af = a . ~ a. © « = ALG First Sigel, BEL, Washington, 0.0. 20603 & Mr “Hubbard. height and build. Senator. Schwelker.. Your height is about what? o. Mr. Hubbard. About 61", a | : “Mr. Johnston. Was Darnell, would you describe him as athletic Looking? ae : Mr. Hubbard. On the lean side, yes, Mx. Johnston. How about Burns? Me, Hubbard. No. He was approximately §°10", 180, 190 pounds, British father, Cuban mother, the better features of both. -Hé i8 a very handsome man, well educated, was educated in England. Aa I say, I-do not recall what position te held first. He was Castro's Minister of Finance, and ne was also his ambassador to London, but I do not know what _gequence. Senator Schweiker. But he doesn't look anything like that. Mr. Hubbard. No, Sir. . Meo Johnston. bid Darnell have access to Cuba before the shutdown in 29617 Mr, Hubbard. Yes. -He represented Lykes in Cuba. They moved their base of operations from Cuba to Puerto Rico when Castro took over. Mr. Johngton, To your knowledge, did SNFE or Alpha
J 3 3 ae .* a & « ‘1 1G Pied Steeet, .C., Hasningion. DG. 20008 area, according to them. They were getting a lot of support from the Chicago did =~ Senator Schweiker. ~And you said you are not gure or you don't denow where Mr. Darnell is now, but at the time you worked with him he was in Puerto Rico. Mr. Hubbard, . San Juan. Senetor Schweiker, The steamship company he worked for was headdyartered eitheryin:Galveston:or Houston. Me, Hubbard: Yes. Senator Schweiker... Inethe course of «« when Darnell. workec for you, was he on some kind of salary or retainer? My. Hubbard. No, no. Senator Schweiker. oA volunteer? Mr, Hubbard,.Take him out to dinner once in @& while, him a drink. Senator Schweiker. THat was it? Me. Hubbard. Yes. Senator Schweiker. - So he wouldn't have been money to anybody in your behalf, TOP SECRET
of the other agencies? At Hubbard. “Poss Rice station in just a matte of. months after. I soled ‘out. Puerto Rico station, and it was dormant for several years, and In early '64, the Department of the Army closed out the: : chen they re-established it. Now, all of our coded assets, coded sources would have bee: register operational interest in them. Now, as late as three WARD & PAUL years ago, I passed his name on to Navy intelligence as a possible source for them to lookup in. Puerto Rico. Now, up for grabs to any intelligence community that wanted to | whether they did, maybe he was under operational iaAterest.to another agency and therefore could not gain access to him, I denit know. I recommended that they contact him. Mr. Epstein. Who in Navy intelligence did you deal with three years ago, do you know? Mr. Hubbard. This was the Navy rap in Defense Intellix Agency, Commander Huling, H-u-l-i-n-g, but I dontt think he took any action on it. Mr. Epstein. Why do you say that? 416 Fust Street, 6.E., Wahingion, D.C, 20003 Mr. Hubbard. Because I think he was getting ready to
2 3 < & a o : < = HIG Cast Steeet, 6.0., Hashingion, OG. 20002 led you to believe --_ Hubbard. No. Johnston. Did Burns and Darnell know eac I would think o from a previous association Johneton Would you gay they were close friends? Hubbard. No. : senator Schweiker. What would that association-have been likely? Mr. Hubbard. Social. .As a géneral observation, the better educated Cubans and the professional’ Cubans, when they left Cuba, did not come to the United States, or did not come to Miami. .They went to Spain, Puerto Rico, South America. We gor the cane cutters into Miami primarily. Your educated people, those with money, we had quite a few of them come into Puerto Rico and later really take over. Within a year they were Prosidents of firms and now Darnell, by virtue of being marric. to a Cuban, by virtue of his positions with the Lykes Line, both in Cuba and San Juan, I'm sure their paths have crossed. Senator Schweiker. Anything else? Mr. Johnston. Were you in contact with Menoyo in the fall of *63? Mee Hubbard. Yes. |
dn October ‘< os ee oMr. Hubbard. He told me of a trip, he had been on "fundraising tour, perhaps Dallas was one of them. 1 do not ‘It is feasible or possible. did you have any occasion to or Menoyo about it? Mr. Hubbard. after that, and I imagine so because it was the topic of conversation. I remember nothing significant about the meetings. Jos Mr. Johnston. . Do you know what the attitude of Burns or J s is o& < o 3 3 : Darnell was toward -~ Mr. Hubbard. well, most of them,were, you know, shocked and in-deep sympathy, wondering perhaps of newly appointed President Johnston, whether he would support the Cubans, but I remember nothing significant. Senator Scnweiker. In your work in that period of time, did you ever have occasion to go into Mexico City? Mr. Hubbard. Yes,,.sir. Senator Schweiker. On what basis would you do that? Nr. Hubbard. I think this was a lead through Darnell, that a -~ this is rough and off the top of my head «- I belie 416 First Street, 5.€., Washingion, B.C. 20003 it was a niece of his wife, married to a native-born
‘2 2. < tJ o. * a td #10 Fast Strect, &.€., Washingion, G.C. 206003 The niece of his wife, _ married to. pole, but now hak “leizenship, t don't know, Senator Schweiker. Who worked for an. American company? Mr. Hubbard. No, Merix, as Iorecall, M-ewr-i-x. It was a pharmaceutical «- Senator Schweiker. Merck, Merck Sharp and Dome? Mrvy Hubbard. Yes. Senator Séhweiker. = You don't recall that. name,- do. you? Mr. Hubbard. You say all the records have been destroyed, the dossiers? Mr. Johnston. The dossiers haven't but the operational records have. Mr Hubbard. Well, if you had Darnell’s dossier -~ Senator Schweiker. Who would have it? Mr. Hubbard. I say if it is still maintained. Senator Schweiker. -Who would maintain it, Army? Mr. Hubbard. Well, see, they even disbanded the old
as a4 Mr. speeln. Was there” an overall. mission. that. you I hed Poe Mor Mr. Hubbard. I am gure wa! bad a mission statement, _that has been too many years ago. Mr. Epst@in,° Was there a specific mission that you. had with respect. to Cuba? od 3 < o& = S of & = Mr, Hubbard. All right, specifically, yes... We had. our ssential élements: of information that we had_to Seapond to these requirements, the one I mentioned on the frogman, naturally anything pertaining to missiles, We had a blanket type ptblication, that.is the Operation Treasure Hunt; and this was a publication in which items of interest from Communist Bloc: in the line -of hardware, anything from a small arms round to a MIG ov Soviet vessels were wanted. This was one of the entres I used with the Cubans. If you can obtain this item, we are prepared, and it was specified in the Treasure Hunt book, how much we could pay. I could give 416 Fut Street, SZ. Wastingion; 0.C. 20003 $10,000 for this, or a million dollars for that or whatever. TOP SECRET
‘related to 6 . Boe ard. Any Communist Bloc. Mr. Epstein : Intelligence collect on, Now, was there any counterintelligance operation that was encompassed by your operation? ae | Mr. Hubbard. No, we came up with a very elaborate © Jascasaination pian on Castro; but ¢ understand that ran around the Pentagon for about three days, put gas in the air conditioning | system, and I had aman to do that, but they didn’t want to do that. 2 « le, a « « Mr. Epstein. Was that an assignment Jevied by headquatters? Mr. Hubbard. No, I just had one of these Cubans that had come.out long enough to be recruited, and went back an, and he worked “around the headquarters building as an air conditioning .repairman.: The same thing on the Soviet torpedse boats. I-had the opportunity to plek-up one of those vin xespone to this Treasure Hunt. I sent this in, and I-said ieonly have really°a few questions. If I can get it Gt would require some degree of risk, but what do I do with the Russian crew. Do I drop them overboard, kill them, do you want to sake them prisoners, do I bring the boat into Miami harbord; or a1 Fust Street, 62, Washington, 6.0. 200045 do. I sink it or what?
a ) 3 € 9 — = 3 Bie Pest Sect, 68, Wamingion, 0.0. 26003 Hubbard. 1 submitted it. Do you want to follow through on pid any more happen than that, submission? Mr Hubbard. No. As Izrecall, ny return message was no, -weeare not in the aasassination business! *to forget it.’ Mra Epstein. And that waa the last.you heard of-it. My. Hubbard....Well, DT did, f-forgot it. Mey Epstein. What was there within your overall: mission in Puerto Rico with-respect to Cuba that. would have. led you to believe that a proposal hike that might have been. found acceptable? Mr. Hubbard. ‘Well, Castro is the bad guy, As Tsay, 1 took this on myself. to send this in... It was not generated at this. Levél.. Ivsaid, look, I've got this guy that says he ean do it if-anybody is interested, and they came back; no; we aré not in the assassination business, forget it. Mr. Epstein. Do you know whether any other. Agency expressed an interest in that guy? Me. Hubward. Not that I am aware of, Senator Sch ker. This niece of Mr. Darnell’s wife,