“Senator Young. Then you do not believe an all-out oe is inevitable, and, of course, you are not at all in favor of | | pre-emptive ‘war by us. | | : | Secretary McNamara. I do not favor pre-emptive war. I bee lieve we can reduce ‘the risks of all-out war by, one, maintain- ing and strengthening our national military forces, and wo by appropriate actions over the period « of time to protect against the further proliferation and indiscriminate use of nuclear weapons. a Serator ‘Young. Thank you very. much, Mr. Chairman. i z Chairman Russell. Mr. Secretary, as a practical matter you and General taylor are talking about the use of atomic weapons; I was of che opinion that there is some yeovision of the law that” no one could use any of those without. direct: order from che paaan president of the United States, is that correct? | Secretary McNamara. That is entirely true, Me, Chairman. ~ I assume our answers ~~ | | ag he Chairman Russell. That is what. you would advise ‘the President? | | secretary McNamara. Exactly so, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Russell. Yes. - Just one other thing in connec-' . tion with that, you were discussing Cuba. I have been called a “ww 54214 door ’ warmonger and all because I advocate a much firmer policy ‘than’ — we . actually employed. You didn’t mention the question of - SOTEABWY vay Bont you think ‘that plays < quite a larger port. in.
“ww 54214 . Se eo ae 195 - Mr. Khrushchev’ s ago une t. remove the missiles, the fact that they were so far avay from him and the Russians traditionally | | and historically have not Liked to fight wars that were far ae from where they had their land masses: - : | secretary McNamara. ft was geography, Ms. Chairman, which gave us such a clear favorable margin of conventional power, and this played a ‘major role. in his’ decision, I am certain. Chairman Russell. | t would certainly have. taken a ifferent | position on missiles. that had been stationed 50 miles: from .. . Berlin than ‘I would have from those that were being erected in’ Cuba itselé. - Senator Saltonstall, Senator Stennis agreed to yield. “Senator galt onstail. | i thank Senator Stennis. -Mr.. Secretary, this is just one question ‘that t would like to ask. I will ask. ic. at this cime. ‘This is realty | a weston that you -- I. talked over with you when you were good enough | to. come to my office, bute Ir would like to. get. ‘it on ‘the. record a fe cause I think it. is awéully difficult, “an avfully diggicult ~ | ‘problen. Several times. over the years there have been deep differ- ences of opinion on procurement problems. i have in mind since « “Lg have been on this Committee the B-36, the number of Marines, -_ and I think one ‘other, question. or Oo 4 one Now, t have felt that where it is difzicult ‘for a. Senator “Like nysele, “Rot. an ‘expert, to ‘know which. is Thon Bhat it tis. pooth: 32424094 “Page; a:
. 7 oo "208° Senator Stennis. — i know we don't have the percontage. But now IT don%t want to take up too much time. You have a fine a 7 knowledge of all this Cuban complex and everything, the complex” questions about it. My argument about “it is mainly one of priority’ and preference and emphasis, but you haven*t testified mainly on | that, have you? | | Secretary McNamara. _ No, sir, I have net. Senator Stennis. £ should think we ought to pass questions on that then until you have given your statement about it. Chairman Rus sell. Permit me ‘to say. that the secretary wh e&fered to go into that first and chat r first thought that would: i be the better procedure. Later r decidea it would be better on to conclude the hearing and then proceed to that. Senator Stennis. T think you are right. ‘that is correct. There is one thing on this Skybolt now. t just had this | idea of my own when newspaper reporter oS told me in ‘the lobby of ‘a hotel in Memphis that the ‘Skybolt program had been changed | | and moxe or less abandoned, i just couldn't, believe it at first, ana 1 then my next thought was weil, ae must be a diplomatic reas son or sonething in view of all the proof that we had about it in the yéars before, - a me ~ | | May I ak you that question, if it is proper. To what extent: was this a diplomatic decision? | | ae | Secretary MeNamara. . ‘Absolutely not. at all, Senator | MW 5421 4 oorftennian Theangpner of, handli ing it. was  é€ected by ‘the agreement
. eo ° | : 7 Oo : oe about the British. a Senator Stennis. No. Chaixman Russell. x yesterday expressed. to you my con= ern about the relationship between the Cuban ‘withdrawals and the o ‘test ban negotiations, and everything that happens increases my ‘suspicion chat there is some connection ‘between them. Yesterday we got the notice that Khrushchev was going to take these soldiers out of Cuba. This morning I hear on the | radio that our negotiators are approaching the two or three one side inspections for the test ban agreement. | | | Now, I don?t know whether Congress will have anything to say on that o: not, but speaking as one member of the ‘Senate L£ we come in here with some test ban ‘that represents a long series of complete surrenders and submissions ‘to the demands of the Russians on ‘this test ban business T. for one am going ta oppose it as vigorously as we can... It seems. ston me we are walking: | ‘right in that direction now. 7 Oo Se Lae I raised that. question yesterday. In view of what is "intervening ; in between | I thought I ought to make that ‘statement | here today. f may be the only one, but to me it has been one : step has - followed ‘the “other, Cuba here, we retreat on test ban oa there. It may be just % a series of coincidences; but I would ‘be 7 opposed ‘to this presont test ban that wa are | about to accept, - LE there wasn® © any Cuba, because I donit: think we. afford Me enging your 00d. an ne 54214 Doe LSARSARBPE REINS zr an mn sure, I am n not, ¢ chaile ngi g yo go coe
faith, please understand, Mr. Secretary, when you said there was 211, no connection between them, but it has. happened on three or fou cecasions that when the Russians have grudgingly lived up to their promises of last November then we have given something on ‘the | | test ban. Secretary McNamara. Me. Chairman, may I speak to that? Chairman Russell. Yes, I wish you would. Secretary McNamara. This is a subject that undoubtedly ” Secretary Rusk can speak to more authoritatively than I. But I have been a party to, I believe, ali of the discussions on the - question of the withdrawal of the missiles from Cuba as weil as. the test ban negotiations. t have seen the documents, the cables and letters that. have passed between our two governments. I ‘participated in the © 7 discussions that lea to the final. decisions relating to our. Government’ s position, and at no time has there been any link whatsoever. retween our accions with respect to Cuba or . the oe Soviat?s withdrawal of missiles and now personnel erom cuba oa any other action by that government of this Government, “and. specifically no “Link between those actions and the ‘test ban oe negotiations: — - | | | - AS a matter of fact, to be quite frank about it, our. Government's position on the test ban was determined before ee Received the Soviet information the day het fore yesterday, and - vithout any vegard | to it, and ait has not wet been | communicated “Ww 54214 ‘DocId: a2a24od- Page: Bo.
FR ASC gy | CSEORRET, @ . Tt a | a 323 2816 . _ Iwant to read one of the letters and one of the telegrams a ‘that is typical, and get your coment on its please. This lett ser is from ‘Shreveport, Louisiana. The man - gives his address and street number: | | | "Ty have just, heard that the ‘United states Engineers in Georgia had leased Some 22300 § square miles of south Georgia land to train United Nations troops on. I also “heard that: 33 500 Unit ced Nations troops would. arrive there on March 4 to ‘tvain chrouph March 27, and that in June some 17,000 Congolese troops of the United Nations would be coming in for an indefinite stay and ‘training. | | "YY want to know if this is true, since my mother lives a “in south Georgia. I would also like to low where such ~ ; "and was rented ‘and if we are actually going ¢ to let the Congolese: troops train there and vhat you “intend to do about ao Ate Please let me . have your answer by ret curn mall as I am _very much concerned about this piece of news y that has evident.» oy been kept weld guarded. | | "Pp, Se If such news is true, what: can we do about wee" Here is. a télegram from a gentleman in Houston, Texas: "Understand U Thant of United Nations is establishing. wee a - command post in Georgia bringing United, Nations Congolese Sek troops: from. Africa to protect the United stat ses from Cuban attack. Movement Inown as operation Water Moccasin. -Is fais. mw ‘sania. pocra: abaforma than ‘rue? Te So by what right and whose » authority -
— to the Sovicts. : | | . oe Moreover ,. the: infor ‘mation that was received the day before a yesterday, was in accordance with Khrushchev’ s statement to the President made last November. | | on Chairman Russell. I under rstand that. But he still hasn't . done what he said he would Last November and he diante do it . yesterday. . a | oo, SO wigs Secret tary ry NeNonaza. No, siz, Ir dian’ e¢ mean to imply that ail the troops will be pulled out or he said that all the | ibe troops will be pulled out in his statement of yesterday, but i oe | do wish to state insofar ag = have Knowledge of the situation, and f believe cs have complete knowledge of it, ‘there has been. - no linkage between test ban negotiations and Cuba negotiations. Chairman Russe21. r accept that, but evident ly our negotia~ jors have gotten tired and frustrated because we ‘have conceded ‘-and conceded, Ir am a simple-minded person myself. To me if Russia is in good faith | Le about suspending atomic tests there’ is” no reason why they shoulan’é allow teams to come; “into Russia. _ 7 = Russia is just overrun with tourists and there is nothing new. tt wouldn’t generate any particular ideas in the mind of Russians. to. see strange people walking around becaus ) ‘tourists are on every corner. an: | Russia, “and if they are in good gaith on eat “oS test ban, I can't escape, to me, the conclusion that thoy would © te willing ¢ to permit: some “AnSpection othex ‘than this ‘lack box | NW 54214 pohusdnaages “pRyamysaii an. favor of 5 x seesa in” tochnolouy ana en”
) PS? the whole world, and I an sure they must laugh at us, saying - "Yell, all we have to do is sit there", the Soviets, they just sit there, and if they. wait long enough we will keep giving. ins giving an, Biving in. This is not my idea of a good Yankee trader who is in- there to arive a hard bargain. Ir chink we. hurt our. position and seriousiy impair it, not only.as ate affects nuclear test ‘bane but it affects our whole diplomatic arm, whether we are : talking about being tough in Cuba or about doing something ‘elsewhere. | : a They get the impression that they can push us around, and that if they. just wait long enough, ‘they will get what ‘they want. I must say that we are naive, -- pe | Senator Saltonstall. Me, Chairman, if the Senator will. yield for one question, | | . Mr. Secretary, you disturbed me very ‘much just now in "answer toa question by senator Jackson, We were discussing “Looking forward ten years. 7 ne eee Secretary HoNemara. Yes - Senator Saltonstall. and as’ I visualize the attitude of. af "the Chinese as we know it, is it not very ‘dangerous for us: to agree with any tests with the: Soviets now and what they may” do after we agree with them as to what ‘they may give to the "|. Chinese and 1et them go foruard? ) “Secretary MoNamava. Right, NW 54214, ‘Docla: 32424094 Page. a3.
9 HW 54214 DocId:32424094° Page 86 | -.” there now? . , developed as a submarine base, no; sir. we ME Place? ordinary upkeep of | a. harbor? ; ae 14s RBIS © oases: at all as as far as you know. now that there is. no sta in Cuba, nor under construction? | Now let's get a positive answer. | Admirat Anderson. I can advise the ‘committee: “that to the best of my knowledge there have. been: no Russian submarines ia Sy - Cuba. I could also Say that there are “harbors, there are. facilities in Cuba, which could be used. for servicing cubnar ines. The Chairman. That is what you sald r yesterday. Now the question As: Are there any bases being. established, Adniral Anderson. “We have seen nothing which» can “be identi-~ fied specifically as a submarine base in cuba The Chairman; - Is there any evidence ‘that anything’ “unusual” is’ taking place in any of these. bases where it. vould be possible ; to. establish a& submarine pase? Any unusual activity ‘which might cause you, to be ‘concerned - that it is going beyond the mere normal harbor’ deve: opment? Aamirat Anderson. Nothing. to the. point wher. eat this, stage | of the game, Mr. Chairman, + we could ‘say that: this. is boing The Chairman. Well, is there any unusual. de Is ‘there any. ‘unusual activity taking place, out: of the:
| RRP “° Admiral ‘Anderson. - There is’ nothing which, wana dead me ‘to believe that specifically there. is a. » submarine base development. The Chairman. Well, then, - i am warranted in stating ‘to the. Floor, if anyone asks me the question, that Admiral: Anderson. said that as far as the Antormation he has and the. Navy Departs = ment has, that there are no ‘activities An any of ‘these aVailable- harbors that is beang utilized for the purpose, of building vie narine bases. | | [ | ve Admiral Anderson. To tthe best (of ourisnbvledge | at ‘this, time. | 7 | The Chairman. “All rignt. . fr. Rivers. Could I ask this? . Are you doing any reconnaiss ance , yoursel?, or is the oo present reconnaissance ‘poing conducted by another agency 7 of the” Governnent? | _are ‘you smite ap ey Admixal Anderson. Orff the record a+ Mx. Swart. “Off the record. : MGnival Anderaon. OfE. the record. (urther atatement ‘off the record, 7 (Further discussion off the record, > . a4 - | The Chairman, “Now members of ‘the committee, the includes’ the posture brieting by the Secretary, the. Admiral and the General, I want to thank you on behalf of the committee.) WW 54214 Docld:32424094 Page 87°.