AGENCY RECORD NUMBER RECORD SERIES AGENCY FILE NUMBER ORIGINATOR FROM TO TITLE DATE : PAGES SUBJECTS DOCUMENT TYPE CLASSIFICATION RESTRICTIONS CURRENT STATUS DATE OF LAST REVIEW OPENING CRITERIA COMMENTS HW 532716 DBocld: 32404704 Date: 02/12/01 Page: 1 JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM IDENTIFICATION. FORM Peleased under the John AGENCY. INFORMATION . Eennedy CIA 7 WSsassination Records Ollection Act of 1992 104-10534-10038 JFK (44 5c 2107 Note). NOSENKO RECORDS oo ased#:NW 53216 Date: woe cotter ot eee -------------- 6-14-2017 - DOCUMENT INFORMATION 'CIA TRANSCRIPT:REEL #6. NOSENKO INTERROGATION BY DERYABIN, 31 JULY/3 AUGUST 1965. 07/31/65 61 NOSENKO DERYABIN NBR PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT SECRET POSTPONED IN FULL 01/31/01 JPK-M-24:F39 2001.01.31.14:54:27:250084: NOSENKO NOT BELIEVED RELEVANT (NBR). ATTACHED IS HSCA STAFF REVIEW FORM DATED 9 MAY 1978. SEE F34 FOR KEY TO TRANSCRIPT. Page 1
ee 2 Ge | ee os ne @ @ . “MATERIAL REVIEWED AT CIA HEADQUARTERS BY HOUSE SELECT COMMIT®EE ON ASSASSINATIONS STAFF MEMBERS “FILE TITLE/NUMBER/VOLUME : -INCLUSIVE DATES: VA PLY /9EV 3 AVC- Ve oo ~- CUSTODIAL UNIT/LOCATION: SE - ROOM: .DELETIONS, IF. ANY: “DATE DATE ‘RECEIVED | RETURNED Cf 7 REVIEWED BY (PRINT NAME) SIGNATURE OF REVIEWING OFFICIAL —Silowrs GAO LOHA MAA S177 NO DOCUMENTS MAY BE COPIED OR REMOVED FROM THIS FILE HW 53216 DocId:32404704 Page 3 __
HW 53716 SEPRET ; REEL # 6 30 July 1965 3 August 1965 TRANSLATION 5 A. .e. So that we can find a common language. No matter how much we have talked today, it is impossible to believe that you were there, in the Baltic, etc. i i B. I told you how I was. A. Twant to understand what is the matter; it is in no way understandable to me -- you can imagine that if a man were a counterintelligence officer, or -- at that time -- an intelligence officer, if he was there, he would remember something. b3 I told you what I did. What else could I have done if I did not do that? What else can I tell you? I did not do anything else there. A. Perhaps it would be better to say, "“T was not there". B. I had not been there, I would say, "I never was there”. Why do I need this -- to get confused here? A. If "I was not there", then, of course, "I" did not do anything there. B. I told you what I did. A. Well, the last question for the day -- how do you explain that earlier you said you were there for quite a long time? Earlier, you said that you had been on Rugen Island and somewhere else. B. No; I... just a minute ... I did not say it that way. A. This is a fact; but then, you said that you were not there. You see? B. Why, why? I told you. DoclId: 327404704 Page 4
aye A. That is not a justification. This is not the talk of an intelligence officer. A man can make a mistake; but you cannot say at the beginning that you were there and there and there, and then when they ask you about it, find some difficulties in answering; and then you'say that you do not know why you said it and that you were not there. B. Again, in this case, they will not believe .... ((xG; A and B'speak at the same time. )) The question about me was resolved while I was in Moscow on leave in June 1952. Even the question of my study was discussed. I refused to take training. Then the decision was made to send me to the ((Navy Intelligence)) point. At that period of time, at that time, at that time when the decision was made and it was decided to send me to that point in Sovetsk, the point was in Rostock, and the idea was to send me to Berlin and from there to Rostock. A. I know about that and the rest. My question was from this field, but was not posed that way. “ B. I did not get there; why? Because the base was moved, was moving . A. ((In the beginning)) ... you said that you had been there, but then you said you had not been there and you said that you aid not know why you had said you had been there -- "TY was not there". B. Because, actually, it happened that I was directed to go to Rostock; [I did not go there; why did I not go there? Because the base had been moved, and they did not know where it was to move from Rostock. A. In life, it goes this way -- if a man was there .... HW 53216 DBoctld:32404704 Page 5
"OTe OHNE SERRE EER, B. And I said that I would not go there -- "why should I go from one city to another? Make a decision on where I am to go, and I will go there", A. .((Signals end of meeting. )) I do not want you to become upset. ((End of 30 July 1965 Session))
((3 August 1965 Session) ) B. ((Asks for a cigarette; speaks in a very low voice.)) You know, I want to say a word about Sovetsk, Proimorskiy Kray. You know, it is not just my memory «.-- Tt is another thing -- perhaps I am confused about the kray, but there is somthing connected with "Sovetsk by the see (primorskiy)" -- either Primorskiy Rayon or Sovetsk By the Sea. And why? You know, I was thinking -- "What is it?” Somehow I have connected Sovetsk with Primorskiy. The thing is that yourself said, "Here is Sovetsk" ...- There are many Sovetsks .... "Here is Sovetsk." -- apparently, in all probability, to differentiate this Sovetsk from another .. this Sovetsk. I have in mind the Sovetsk “by the sea (primorskiy)", in order to differentiate it from another -- this is why, in my memory, Sovetsk is something connected with "primorskiy (by the sea)" ... @ither "Sovetsk Primorskiy" or “Sovetsk of Primorskiy Rayon" ... well, Sovetsk by the sea. Now, another thing -- this Sovetsk is a very small place; it is not even a city; there was no raykom there ... nothing. Well, precisely, "Sovetsk by the sea", in my memory --+- A. Well, if “Sovetsk by the sea", what else? B. It could be this way ... it could be this way .--- re I do not remember, I do not remember. é os It could be this ... "Kaliningrad Oblast, City of Sovetsk by the sea” or races eel “of Primorekiy Rayon” ... I do not know. . ae I, how ... well, Sovetsk by the sea... it pointed out "Sovetsk -- by the sea", In my memory, it is "Sovetsk, Primorskiy Kray". I myself understand: you have reproached me for my ignorance ~-- that I do. not know geography, although I graduated from an institute cease I know very well that there is only one Primorskiy Kray -- in the Far Bast; there is no Primorskiy Kray here. HW 53216
ore sppramaMes Ger te SECRET A. Very well; we will return to this question in time. . This does not explain what you have been trying to explain to me. 4 | There is no Sovetsk in the place you are talking about. a And no one ever wrote "Sovetsk primorskiy”. . B. With the indication that this is Sovetsk, Primorskiy Kray, Primorskiy Rayon a ((or "Sovetsk of a coastal kray, or a coastal rayon")). : A. There was no Primorskiy Rayon in Kaliningrad Oblast, and Kaliningrad Oblast was not called Primorskiy Kray ((or "a coastal kray")). All of this, of course, forces me to think that your knowledge is too Little for one who has worked and served there. B. I have told you how it was. A. The last time, I told you to think about this question; I think you have thought very well and now you are trying to insist upon this or to find } some sort of justification. B. No; I am trying only to prove to you that I was there. A. But this does not prove anything; and your words -- "I was, I was" -- as proof, do not say anything. B. You understand -- I cannot give proof. A. Well, let us go back a little. If one is to believe what you said about the last date, the date of your entry into the organs of the MVD, in March 1953 ...- -B. Yes. A. Every officer knows exactly the date on which he entered, because it is necessary to know it in many cases; but -- although you talk about your poor memory -- could you recall the exact date on which you were accepted for work? Because this is of great and important significance for promotion, for rank, for longevity, etc., etc.; every officer knows this. I would like for you to recall it; you should know on what date you were accepted. HW 53216  Docld: 32404704 |
HW 53716 _~=&B. DoclId: 327404704 Page 13 I do not remember. In the middle of March. Let us talk a little about the structure and organization of the MVD when BERTYA was in power and in the time immediately after him; name for me the directorates that existed at that time in the MVD. ((Pause.)) The First Directorate, Second Directorate ... the First Chief ... the Second Chief coos Well, what did the First Chief Directorate do? ((Pause.)) Intelligence. The Second Chief Directorate? Counterintelligence. Let us pause on this -- are you sure? About what? That the First Chief Directorate was intelligence, and the Second Chief Directorate, counterintelligence ? Sure. There was one change between 1953 until January 1964 ({probably meant "1954")), after BERTYA, when KRUGLOV was Minister of the MVD ... after BERIYA. For a short period of time, the First Chief Directorate was called the Second, and the Second was called the First. This was the one change -- for a short time. First of all, your information is not correct. If the First was called the Second , and the Second, the First, why was this. done? I do not know why it was done. It was announced to all employees, and it was explained why such a change had taken place.
A. HW 532716 Bocld: 32404704 SECRET ~li- I do not remember any such explanations. Why? I tell you -- for a short period of time, the Second Directorate was the First, and the First was the Second. Well, that is right. But this was not under BERTYA; it was under KRUGLOV. That is not right. This is another one of those confirmations that it is highly unlikely that you worked with the MVD. A man who has worked there knows exactly when the change was made. You are mistaken by a mile (("'Kilometer")). This was under KRUGLOV ...- There was something ..-- What other directorates? The Third Directorate. What did the Third Directorate do? Military counterintelligence. Then, the Fourth Directorate .... What did it do? The intelligentsia. Be more precise -- the one word, "antelligentsia", covers & lot of ground. Work among writers, artists ... all counterintelligence work .... Tf we take counterintelligence work as a whole ... work against foreigners .... No, no; we are talking about the Fourth Directorate, nothing else. The work among the intelligentsia of all types, excluding, of course, ((those in)). industry; work against nationalists (xc). The Fourth Department --~- why do I remember the Fourth? - Page 14 ; i era Se FO OEIC SE Ses ras 3 (area estes ae ee bi he EY
-j]2- Because employee ZVEZDENKOV, of the First Department, when I came on duty in March 1953 ... he left and worked .. A. And the next directorate? B. The Fifth Directorate. A. What did it do? B. industry, all industry. A. What else was the Fifth Directorate called? B. It was the former EKU, EKU; and the Fourth was called ‘SPU. This was before my time. A. The next directorate? B. The Sixth; transportation. A. The next? B. The Seventh. A. What did it do? B. Checking; installations -- the investigative apparatus, and surveillance of ’ Soviet citizens. Ae And the next directorate? B. The Eighth. A. What did it do? B. Coding and decoding. A. The next? B. The Ninth; the Guards Directorate. A. The next? The Tenth; the Kremlin Directorat:, HW 53216 Docld:32404704 Page 15
pee A. The next? ae chs B. That is all of the directorates, except for the Special Departments +.. oh, my yes, the Investigations Department .... A. What else? B. The Special Departments. A. What Special Departments do you know? B. The First Special Department. A. What did it do? B. The First Special Department -- I think it is what is now called the Records- Archives Department - (Vehetno-arkhionyy otdol) -- VAO. A. The Records-Archives Department? B. At present. A. What did the First Special Department do before? B. The same -- archives, records. I am telling you as I remember it. I am afraid here .... Maybe the First Special Department did something else; I do not remember. A. Next? B. The Second Special Department. A. What did it do? B. This is audio intercept -- "Marusya", "Nadyusha". A. The next? B. The Third Special Department and the Fourth Special Department. The Third, I know, is where the documents were made -- cover documents. ™ PBoubh, T da nob reacmh ov nant i | HW 532716 DBocld:32404704 Page 16 ‘ Wes weedy SEIS
HW 53716 Docld: 32404704 Page 45 oo Well, today we began to speak of the Internal Troops. To whom are the Internal Troops now subordinate? You were there not too long ago. No; they are not in the KGB. Where are they, if not ((in the KGB)). I do not know if they exist now, if they exist now. Every employee, of the Second Chief Directorate .... ' No, not Convoy ((Troops)), but Internal, Internal ... most likely, they are in the MVD. There is no MVD. MOOP -- Ministry for Preservation of Public Order. Well, and the Convoy Troops? Also in the MVD, because all the camps are there,. in the MVD. There are only two prisons in the KGB. Well, when BERIYA took power, to whom did the camps belong? I do not know these details, I do not know. Of course, they belong to the MVD. An employee who worked in the Second Chief Directorate must know this. And if I ask you the question, and you even have not heard or do not know of the Directorate for the Protection of State Treasures, which also works very closely with the Second Chief Directorate .... If you know Department "kK", then you must know this -- you cannot get around it. ((Long pause.)) Well, think sbout it again. KRUGLOV was Minister; SEROV, a Deputy; ROMASHKOV, a Deputy; who else? I do not know; I do not remember. Well, very: well; KRUGLOV became Minister; who was the Chief of the First Chief Directorate at that time?