480-10131-10327 JFK Assassination System Date: 10/19/20 Identification Form Agency Information AGENCY: HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-1013 1-10327 RECORD SERIES: SECURITY CLASSIFIED TESTIMONY AGENCY FILENUMBER: 014726 Document Information ORIGINATOR: HSCA FROM: PHILLIPS, DAVID ATLEE TO: TITLE: DATE: 04/25/1978 PAGES: 105 SUBJECTS : ...DESCRIPTION CIA, METHODOLOGY PHILLIPS, DAVID A., TESTIMONY BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OSWALD, LEE, POST RUSSIAN PERIOD, INDENTIFICATION AND... OSWALD, LEE, POST RUSSIAN PERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO MEXICO DURAN, SYLVIA DOCUMENT TYPE: TRANSCRIPT CLASSIFICATION: — Secret RESTRICTIONS: 1A; 1B CURRENT STATUS: — Redact DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 01/01/2003 OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : Box 5 v9.1 HW 450955 Docld: 32277212 Page 1
Stenographic Transcript Of HEARINGS Before The a ; Executive Session SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES | F Witness - David Atlee Phillips Washington,D.C. oo | Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. | ; Official Reporte | 900 gor \ -. 800 Seventh St., S. W. Washington, D. C. cen etre RITE 554-2345 GEE 0335 - Docldad: 32277212 Page 2
HW. 50955. $84-23465 Zu (202) 240 oC, HASHTNGTON , REPORTEMRS BUTEDING, ae 5 > i nm usa Oe che ay _s ce —~ st aN ta bh al NM — na “MS Wo tr -Docld House of Representatives Subcommittee on the Assassination of John F, Kennedy of the Select Committee on Assassinations Washington, D..C. . Tuesday, April 25, 1978 ' Testimony of David Atlee Phillips , 4 ' . oo : ws 4 ange wp) hear ao hele o* nbd MG ; ORTING COMEARE :32277212 Page 3 Page
SHORT >. es 90955 202% €702) 994-2365 Bod, an, rn : ged peg i, WASULTHGG DB RE » ay ring peng STREP? , z ar} PORTERS HUEY 3 de tat ° : q th it 4 fe EXECUTIVE SES SION TUESDAY, APRIL 25, 1978 aoe House of Representatives, Subcommittee on the Assassina- | tion.of John F. Kennedy. of: the, Select Committee on.:..... Assassinations, Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:05 a.m., in room 2200, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Richards Preyer .(chairman of’ the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Preyer, Dodd and pevine. Staff Members Present: M. Goldsmith, E, Berning, D. Hardway, J. Blackmer, W. Triplett, E. Lopez and G. Fonzi. Mr, Preyer. The committee will resume its hearing. Mr. Phillips, thank you for being here today. .I know that it was an inconvenience to you and we appreciate your working out your schedule so you could be here. Mr. Phillips. Yes, sir. Mr. Preyer, . We will ask you to be sworn, sir. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you will give to the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Go? Mr. Phillips. I do. go" Bocla: 32277212 Page 4 j i } i i i i | | i | t i i ‘ © { i i i t n
INDEX TESTIMONY OF DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS 2 tt Mr. Preyer. Thank you, Mr. Phillips. Le ‘I believe you have been given a copy of the rules of the committee, q wo] Mr. Phillips. Yes, sir, I have. fa HAY 65 Mr. Preyer. At this time I will give a brief statement = | & ’ || concerning the subject of the investigation which we give to = 2 | every witness. s | J 3 | House Resolution 222 mandates the committee to conduct fh. stances surrounding the assassination and death of President WASUTNCTON | ! John F. Kennedy in determining whether the existing laws of the United States concerning the protection of the President BUTEDING , ta | | i | { la full and complete. investigation and study of the circum- t I | | | i j and the investigatory jurisdiction and capability of agencies 's i and..departments are adequate in their provisions and enforce- REPGRTERS i$ | ment and whether there was full disclosure of evidence and ate s ~t i information among the agencies and departments of the United States Government and whether any evidence or information not “oO DTH GEREGT, & in the possession of an agency or department would have been c c sr “ { i i | . \°* assistance in investigating the assassination and why such | information was not provided or collected by that agency or 1 department and to make recommendations to the House.if the Select Committee deems it appropriate for the amendment of existing legislation and the enactment of new legislation. Rw bse 4 ~The Chair will recognize Mr. Goldsmith for the beginning L 600 © HW 50955 Boclda: 32277212 Page 5
i | of the questioning, . ad Mr. Goldsmith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. on) Mr. Phillips, for the record would you state your full name and address, please, « E 5 | Mr. Phillips. David Atlee: Phillips, | | é P ;—Fetesta Maryland, 20034. g 7] Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Phillips, are you a former employee S38 of the CIA? | : 3 | Mr. Phillips. yes, I am. : ic | Mr. Goldsmith. Would you give the committee a summary. : i the positions that you held while you were at the agency? 3 | Mr. Phillips. I was recruited by the CIA as a part time & ; z i2 | assistant in 1950 in Chile where I was a newspaperman. [If z 4 | continued in that capacity for some four years and became a : 5 | fun time intelligence officer in 1954 Z a In 1955 and 1956 I was in Cuba. | In 1957 and 1958 : ia | In 1959 and 1960 I was in Cuba again. u i : 19 | During the remainder of 1960 and 1961 I was in the € 19 | Washington task force which worked on the Bay of Pigs opera~— ete 21 | tion. re aa In late 1961 I was assigned to Mexico City. @ 23 In early 1965 I became the Chief of Sstation| _—_—_i| : I returned to Washington in 1967 and became the Chief of i . : CEPOET | | 7 Sb Be € ~ oe & . : SEGAL ; 00 0 FO HW 350955 Bocla: 32277212 Page 6.
509545 bo 2 | the purpose of that association is? wr > Cuban Operations for the CIA through 1969. In 1970 I was the Chief of Station in| ae | | i In 1971 I went to | where I was Chief of station. | Mr. Goldsmith. Would you explain to the committee what 3 - 2 | In mid 1973 I was returned to Washington to become the = 7 Chief of the Western Hemisphere Division of the CIA. . | a ai Mr. Goldsmith. When did you retire from the agency? Gg. 7 Mr. Phillips. On the 9th of May 1975. [ ; ; ° i - 2 fe hp. Mr. Goldsmith. Are you affiliated with the Retired I S H = 1; || Intelligence Officers Association? = 2 | Mr. Phillips. Yes. I am the founder of that organiza- | a 12 | tion. . _ Hi of . * i = , ae , - = | “Mr. Goldsmith. Are you the president of that organiza- | 2 J pa er i i & 1s | eton? « 1S Mr. Phillips... I am sorry, ‘sir. tok . | | a | Mr. Goldsmith; Are you presently the president of that ” i : an = “ 1 ; : : 6 . + ra = € | organization? a = "| Mr. Phillips. No, I am not the president. I am a member) = 20 | of the board of directors. | | Bocld: Mr. Phillips. In 1975 I was personally concerned about | what I thought was happening to the U. S. intelligence | community. The clandestine operator is perhaps the only | Al TING COMPARY. . 32977212 Page 7-
pie * | American that does not have a constituency and so I decided : : — a to form an organization of former intelligence men and women i from all services to try to play some sort of constructive role in the deliberations of, intelligence in the future. . be Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Phillips, have you spoken to anyone at the agency in reference to your testimony today? Mr. Phillips... Have I:spoken:about my testimony today 20024 (902) Ss-2345 s |-with anyone at the agency? ‘one person, Mr. Robert. Shaw, | a 3 2 | because before I knew I was going to be asked here we had S | I E ; : 9 | plans’to -hayé’ lunch together and I told him that I had been : 11.) asked to. come down: here and .we decided that we would not have $ 2/08 thevagenda any’ discussion of what we talk ‘about down here ® z 13 and we ;did’ not.” 5 . bP z. ca or, Goldsmith. So you in no way discussed what you 7 1s | thought might have been the substance of your testimony here i: 3 : : | = ie | today?. _ a — Oo a _ r 7 | Mr. Phillips. Absolutely not. — . | _ | ooo re s or Mr. Goldsmith. And other than Mr. Shaw there was no one | a | | Mr. Phillips. No. ~ 2 at the agency that you spoke to in reference to your testimony? | | Mr, Goldsmith. At this time I would ask the clerk to | show Mr. Phillips Exhibit 94. This is a letter from the | | Acting Director of this committee to the chairman of this ** | committee. Would you please read that exhibit. —. oo | 250 Mr. Phillips. Yes. | CeGeeh ay i , . : Bedl Beg Une! oD dee 1 ; a ou F° h 2 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY a ; HY 50955 Bocld: 32277212 Page 8. ,
HY 0955 tft a é ! ! i a By { wn i a 2 | “ ! ' i = i et ° j ws o j = Hi om i e > os fot i na i i i = i a 2 | ond ou = i ™ ul i : \ oF | . 1 = + i fo) ! = i oe lj = { a j = nl te? i i REPORTERS BUTEDING, HI i iH i | HI | ts | aM ft s | | © ig) = ; a = is ae x i - i © i bt ria] | | Docld: 32277212 Mr. Phillips, I understand it. It gives me complete | freedom to discuss things despite my secrecy with the agency. fully and truthfully before this committee. agency policy for case officers, for example, to have pseudonyms? 13} @ pseudonym. the purpose of that pseudonym would be? such as pay papers, all sorts of records that go back and forth in a pevuchin cable traffic you can refer to a person without actually using his true name. It is a registered thing that a person keeps throughout his career unless for ot in which case the pseudonym is changed. 24 | ease officer when the case officer contacts an agent? . Mr. Goldsmith. You have read the letter? Mr, Phillips. I have, sir. Mr. Goldsmith. And do you understand the letter? Mr. Goldsmith. So that you would be obliged to testify | Mr. Phillips. Absolutely. Mr, Goldsmith, Mr. Phillips, is it true that,it id ca Mr. Phillips. Yes. Of course all case officers have Mr. Goldsmith. Will you explain to the committee what Mr.-Phillips. A pseudonym is used so that on records . ' some reason it is blown, unless it becomes known publicly, i Mr. Goldsmith. Would the pseudonym also be used by a | Mr. Phillips. Very rarely. I don't know that anyone ord ora 2  & S a : g ALDERSON REPORTING COMPSNE a. QO ov ZO. y y Page 3
50955 aes i * i ever did it. Case officers would not use a pseudonym. A 2 pseudonym is always a first name, a middle initial and a last 3 | name. A pseudonym can be Jim smith, . 4 ! Mr. Goldsmith. So you would distinguish between a | = 5 pseudonym and an operational alias, is that correct? a i Mr, Phillips. ‘Absolutely. : | Mr, Goldsmith, What was your pseudonym while you were S a | at the agency? : | Mr. Phillips. I have two. My last one waS Michael Cc. 2010) Choaden. | : “| Mr. Goldsmith. And what was your earlier one? $ a2 | Mr. Phillips. Paul D. Langevin. = | Mr. Goldsmith. When did you assume the second ore; if 2 | you recall? : S| Mr, Phillips. ‘Oh, -T am going: to take a “stab at this. a i = | don't. really recall, | | | a "| Mr. Goldsmith: Pine. “Do you! ‘recall which operational : 2 | aliases you have used in the past? | ; =. 5 | ME, Phillips. NO: because: .2 “would guess that in 25 years a i a & 20) that I may have used 200 -- a hundred, say. ——— 1 Mr. Goldsmith. Would it be agency policy for an opera- fe? 2 | tional alias to be registered? | a Mr. Phillips. Not necessarily formally. A pseudonym, i 4 iyes, is registered and you push the buttons and it comes out | . 23 lef a-machine. An alias. ‘might just” ‘go in the ‘files; it might _ ors pee ; a _ i : . - tl Basie # oe Gov $10 AL DSSS OM See coRT NG COMP AI Bocla: 32277212 Page 10
BW 50955 Docld: 32277212 Page il ow l not necessarily be registered formally. 2 | Mr, Goldsmith. In which files would an alias go into? i Mr. Phillips. In the operational files. “An officer | might use an alias on a one time basis and use the name Jim be | i | = | Smith on a one time basis and it would only be in that one 4 g | file. Some officers have a habit of using an alias over a on Ji ; S ? | Perioa of time because it is something that they can remember. z i . . . | x 37 remember that I had one alias I used on more than one occa- | gs | ston which was the first name of one of my good friends in high a 2 10 | School and the last name of one of my good friends in high © =z = i so FE 1 | school, 3 80 that. I could remember . S34 i Mr, Goldsmith. So. your testimony then is that the agency | * t i | ' i i i & . : 12 [0 does net have éssentially | a registered index of operational Z .: |aliases, is that. correct? | : 13 ee. Philiips. “if they ao, I was not aware of it. | & : 5 | Mr. Goldsmith. And your testimony would be that to the : o 7 | extent that there was any record of these aliases. it ; would be : : 7 in the files. By-files do you mean files that were located in| z 1 the local station or at headquarters? ‘in 5 20 Mr, Phillips. Both, I think I should make it clear that | i #in the cases of aliases used by foreigners that probably those | | 22 ' aliases go into a central file. AKA, also known as, and there | | ‘might be a number: ‘but in the case of American staff officers 24 |it might be in the file in the station, it might be ina file | 2s pat the headquarters because the paper was duplicated, It might \ t ; JALUERSON REPORTING COMPAMY . .
FO be in both places. 4 Mr. Goldsmith. Mr. Phillips, did you previously give | 3 | testimony before this committee? | @ ‘ Mr. Phillips. Yes, I did. : = 7 Mr. Goldsmith. Was that in November? November 27, 19762 : 4 Mr. Phillips.- The formal testimony before the chairman | S 7 I believe was on a Saturday. I am not sure of the date, I & 7 also talked to the staff the day before, -I remember it was | = ' i : | the Thanksgiving holidays. : : ‘o | Mr, Goldsmith. Was that in 1976? | S h g 7 Mr.. Phillips. Yes, it was. = : $ a ‘Mr. Goldsmith. For purposes of review I would like to ! & Z 3 go over with you and with the committee the substance of your | z . | testimony that day. | a | -_ . : ll First you gavé testimony pertaining to the nature of the | z 1. | CIA's Mexico City station's surveillance and operations | : i | ‘ 1; | against the Soviet ‘and Cuban embassies and consulates specif- | - i z | teen with regard to their photo surveillance operation and | : 4 | the wiretapping operations. Do you recall giving testimony | | é xe te this effect? : an Mr, Phillips: I did to the extent that I was aware of | EEF 2 the details but certainly Y didn't talk about it. : a 22 Mr, Goldsmith. Understood. And at that time you also | HY 0955 ié i gave testimony regarding the procedures for delivering tapes 273 | from the outside surveillance unit to the Mexico City station, | i t i a eEppen 4 : et! i a : o % if 4 a8 BB don ; . Docld: 32277212 Page 12