| WW 4535244 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 . 19 20 21 22 20 24 20. 37 though, hasn't’ he? Senator Baker. The President, yes, but I don't agree with The Chairman. Well, when you consider this as a group, Howard, as I understand it that would: replace the 40 Committee in that function. If-you are going to. undertake to subvert foreign governments and spread false propaganda, and bribe and coerce and abduct and do those things that are now thought to be necessary and proper for this country, this group is pretty important in deciding how far we go in matching the "Russians from place to place. So I would think that we ought to have it established - by statute, and that they ought to be subject to confirmation in this role. I take it:. that the President could add additional - members if he felt the need to do so, so his hands are not. really bound in that respect. As Kennedy added his brother, future Presidents could-add to the membership, and the President designates the Chairman. Senator Schweiker.’ I think one of the problems, Howard, has: been we don't have management prerogatives defined and pinned down in a stable. way, and be able to move them around, whether it is your brother or the Attorney General or his campaign manager, etc. This is where you get the problems that creep in there. Docld:32473512 Page 40.
_ 10 11 12 © 135 14 15. 16 oar mane 19 | 20 21 22 23 24 25 38 I would like to see them institutionalize responsibility - on something as critical as that, and it.seems to me the. - Secretary of State and Defense, etc. ought to be in there for. institutional balance. I'm more concerned about them Playing a shell game, and as long as they can add to it, it gives them flexibility. ' “But it seems to me that we are asking for management ‘indiscretions and for abuses by not having a straight flow line of command, of responsibility. Senator Baker. I don't-think it makes a lot of difference because I'll bet you that whoever occupies that office will either use or not use that board, depending upon his preference or hers as President, and if they doen't like it, they will set up some informal kitchen cabinet to operate. So I don't think it makes much difference, but-I think we are getting awful rigid in saying who is going to be on it, but 1 won't press the point. But I do want to press the. point about Senate confirmation. the Chairman. Senator Hart. Senator Hart of Colorado. As I recall, that missile crisi group was completely ad hoc, and whether he was adding to or subtracting from or just outting a bunch of people together, as I recall, some people from even outside of the government, and I don't think the statutes or recommendations would prohibi that from happening. I think this is a very crucial HW 53244. Docld:32493512 Page 41 _
and 2 yegin 3 HW 535244 10 11 12 13° 14 15 16 17 18 7 20 21 Re. 23 24 || 25 39 recommendation because it directly.confronts, let's say, secrecy with accountability,’ and obviously the fewer people who are-on a key thing, the better at Keeping it secret. On the other hand, the fewer the people, the better the chance of avoiding accountability. Senator Baker. I agree with you, but the way I have met that threat is to suggest that every significant action that must be taken in this field should bea decision of record, so it is retrievable, it can be found, it is in writing. Senator Huddleston. That is a recommendation that occurs later. The ‘Chairman. Well, now, we have an option. We were originally given an option by the staff on Item No. 10 on page 15, in which two recommendations were made. One was that the Secretary of State should be designated as the - Administration spokesman for the Congress on the policy and - purpose underlying covert action projects... The revised recommendation is that the Chairman of the group should be designated as the Administration spokesman. Senator Baker. My recommendation is that you let the President decide that.. | Senator Huddleston. I was about to make that recommenda- tion, too. | | The Chairman. Well, considering the members of the - group, do we invite the problem of executive privilege? If he DoclId: 39493519 Page 42
40 were to designate say his assistant, you see, the Assistant to ft: President for National Security Affairs is the President's own man and in years past, we've known from painful experience on ‘the Foreign Relations Committee, we could not get him to. tell us anything. The only way we could do it was to have a little informal party around Bill Fulbright's fireplace, and after about three rounds of sherry, he would let us in on a little inside information that he thought would mollify us and not tell us too much.’ And the only one we could get to come to the Committee on the ground of Congress's own right: to demand an accounting. was the Secretary of State, because he was a cabinet officer. He was not a personal lieutenant on the President's own cadre, and therefore could not invoke executive privilege as.an excuse for not appearing. Senator Mondale. And he now says he was not told about this covert. activity, he was kept out of the group probably . because of that. The Chairman. Well, I think if we recommend who the group should consist of, the group has charge of covert activity, we should designate, or we should recommend also , that the Secretary of States be the spokesman for the Congress, or otherwise you are inviting the same problems that I have lived with for years, and I just throw chat experience out as a red flag. | Mr. Inderfurth. Recommendation 9, saying that if the _ TOP creper HW 53244 Docld:32423512 Page 43
HW 53244 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 29 en ————d President did appoint. his Assistant for National Security Affairs as Chairman, Recommendation 9 would make- him subject to Senate confirmation for that purpose. The Chairman. But confirmation alone does not necessarily remove the easy application of executive privilege far anyone who just. sits in the White House as a Presidential lieutenant. | Senator Baker. To be lawyer-like, neither does cabinet officer guarantee that he is not available for the President can always call him, a cabinet officer serving in his capacity as Assistant to the President. The Chairman. I know, but tradition stands on the side of cabinet members appearing, because it has allways been so, and they don't come so easily within that cloak as anybody who is a special assistant to the President himself. . “Senator Huddleston. Well, now, we do give the President ~ he does ‘designate the Chairman of this group. So in effect he is designating the spokesman. | ' The Chairman. Sure. But if he designates the Assistant to the president for National Security Affairs, we could be in problems for accountability. . I just think that while we are making recommendations, one of the recommendations ought to be that it is the ‘Secretary of State -- after all, he is in charge of overall foreign policy direction, both overt and covert. He is the better spokesman. Docld:324273512 Page 44 , . . , r