es OF. on 9 January 1962, and was st dat ‘DroSDaBo, ous toms Agent. | Doc. MICRO. SER. full name, ‘BIBRse DEC. 1 1972 aia No yas. BP ee L MICROFE MED | bora | on 6 Tune 19 039 nu ieinnoasesia: tes Gerad: province is” “your occupa tion? Commerce, r worked ina shoe, store in Sante Clara, tes Viltes. Do. you belong to’ 2 any under: sround ‘sroup? mas UD in: the. hills 5 fighting, in the Escambray, under “ejor Joaqui re you : an tnourgent in the hills? Ue ‘months uD ‘in the hilis, trom 26 August 1960 until ep er “a jors or ‘Ohiegs were ‘operating: in ‘that area also? t was with, congo BE Ons 30. The chief of the Escambray is. Oey RAMIREZ. a s+ how many men were there, how many is aividea into guerrilla groups, The Has counts on addition to the rest of the suerrille grouvs which ie: satel ouair of. men fig ehtine in th nat erea? r estimate that there . are approximately 2, 000 armed mén-in the - énbvay; and are they well. e0u tppea, are you receivins srns in the uscambray? fel, lately 8 wary been receiving » during tae past few months (ete, Cte oat Dnhygs
Tn orview of Pablo HERNANDEZ Noyas (cont, ). ua. little delayed but we-are receivins some. Now 4t isa more advanced, a. : et eryone who is in arms an that area has a hich : morale, eee brousht Wilitie troops to the Sscambray? When they start. one of their oft ey mselves, that is, “militiamen from coover re sent. ‘there by our own organizations, and, ‘they are neve: a good situation with thea, ‘The problem is” W ne of their offensives. e dinatnen. in, @ontact which you: have for Osvaldo RANTS to another group. ‘te CONGO PACHE oO and Joaquin nave contest, with people outside the “Sscanbray area? 7 thet 4s aye contacts 4 in the town so they would ‘support you?” “OF course, people were collaborating with vs throughout. Las Villas” province Can you divule ce the nate or names of these ‘contacts or neovLe who wer Be “55504; eee eT9OIA; Bae 32 a o
Interview, of Pablo HERWANDE va Moyas: (cont. ie Yes,. one of our main: eonteots was a man named Rafaelito v9eoMES, No, this is strictly secret and confidential, (interviewer) “ Well, also another man from Santa Clara. called Andres: cov) who a used to come to the U.S | . “You 1 mean he comes to ‘the u. +? Ho, he used to come, He is vow’ cadlar wide “remember, any other nanies? NE I really don' t. ‘You see, there are so many and I have trouble ring the names, , you say that there are approximately 2,000 men in the Escambray? Yes, 2, 000 armed men. What “we need is ammunition, The tine: when you. were there, what was the most needed type of: enmu The most. necessary ammunition was 230 Caliber, we had three Calibers and: we/short of ammo. We also needed grenades. Hand are extremely necessary, at is, the most effective weapon, pe a hie to the ‘militiamen behave in combat? 2 “some militiamen fight well and others run like the devil. your, opinion, ado you think that the majority of them run or what? 1 at this stage of the game those who fight are Communists, ose who | ‘are not Communists will not fight, When we first rose cin rebellion, everyone would fight. Those who were deceived and Who believed in the Revolution and all that, But now that they have re what Communism is, the militianan who is not a Comaunist will not ‘flent. The Gommunists are the ones who fient. And now the Militia ‘troops do not eo-up the hills with the same orisinal enthusiasm, they ave “to be. fo ced” HW.-53320 Docld: 323736812 Page 4 ; :
au nite atterent.. Now the militiamen are not fighting with the same ‘enthusiasm which they had previously for the fight. ‘Their As much 4 scouragement among . them, and many of them are also good men. oe ‘Are they. collaborating with you? fe Yes, they are, | oe Ta whet form are they éollaborating? a se S Well, with ‘food. and things like that. When. we are encircled it ; “becomes: very hard to obtain food because they seize all roads and wee? “And At is not as if we were operating on open country, We: operate in. - “guerrilla groups moving about and when we are attacked it is very hard to ‘find food. And what. do those officers do, do they leave you food or what? oo well, “no, let allow our contacts to operate. by looking the: other wa of course, in those posts ‘there is always some militiaman thet is & ed or something, but our men operate freely. : “And those who are collaborating or supporting the Regime, don't you as that. ‘they may die in combat and thus they will be eldmin ted as time passes? 3 fell, those men are already on a black List. “When the- ‘time comes they will be eliminated. — Also when : (Llitia forees were sent from jovena to comb the woods, as they call it, as these troops are not very ex pesos a ae the mountains, the ones with experience are the Militia tro thet “have been in ‘the mountains for sone. time, then: some of them wa. are z00d a people would send us word that the troops were coming. SO that we. could hance. our position, Then the troops would besin to comb. the: area but we were already ‘out of that area and they would not find anything, “Then the militiamen ‘thenselves warned you of this? Yes, they themselves warned Use RW, 53320 DocId: :$2g73812 Page 5
bre you see thine °S. Do you think that Af you had more ‘cooperation — If the Bscambray had received more att r be in vower, And “Shey should have ‘token b ig is that we were abandoned to our own luck, to whatever we-o “Ou selves, ane t think ‘that. we have done even more tha ‘have ‘deen capable of doing. i we hed. had | arms, they would have | been a. hindrance te: narnéd tien do in the woods? ‘No accept ‘them would have ete there hec been enous “h arms the Eseambray would de. fre ou think that. af nore materiel is sent in, ‘that a that area? without” /with the Cas Bscenbray vould soon be free tne ‘iltreting nen into the as ‘Reeine knowin: ebout it, infiltretine expedit ons taking uoteriel ¢ and everrthins, “ost of the peasants in thet > ket 8 a rifle. in ‘their heads, ead if all those. peovle ere a “MW 53320 ‘Do: Td: 32373812 Page 6.
“HERE NDEZ Moyes (cont. ) had to turn down because ‘there were no arms for them, would soon be free, ae is there a wey of introduc ing that materiel over there? a Welt, everything is. possible in this life;- nothing is impossible. “but I mean: are there places through which the arms could. ‘be broug! nb re, : of: course. Arms can. be brought in through enywnere. / specific place? ae 6 are places, You see, Cuba is all org geniged today, -ganizations have. their plans because mar d they say that th ey are roing to drop “exrin’ a alt shat, And everyone is waiting. “Some of those organizations | have Fe 100 men, = over r 2005, others: over 300, and all those men are unarme anes Around vantearagua, the Salto ae 3 ‘aleacogies be possible by land? a be done but it would be much more: dificult. Sut e is so much - vigilance in Cuba.... s what about ‘through ‘the coast? “Bo, ‘the coast As wery far, The coast is near to. trinidad and | sant Spiritus, put far from other inland areas. and ~nere is” ‘much vigilance also. NW 53320, ‘Docld: 32373812 Page | cm
Interview blo HERNANDEZ Hoyas’ (cont. ) Then Lee to aelives ao te you? Yell, » : ‘directimx conection with the people tho are organized — an that | he arms could be delivered to them, I don! t know, That. 2 Ls just a project, I don't t know how it might be done. And were yor « furnished any arms? Lately Some were coming ins But a lot of ‘anor t.on is. "necessary and we are very short on. &rimo it is very scarse, - And food, how are all those insurgents fed? ae ee eli, food has to be rationed, Cows are ‘Gost: frou the gece | thenselves, &. "And then you are also receiving funds for those purchases of lives ¢ s, the organizations in the towns send money, but somet tle soarse, But “Sonething As received. ven. the wo. on fient, The women peasants ask ‘tor rh ty and even | the boys ‘fight. There is a lot of dignity i Bog believe that. af Cuba is attacked by different uous t ‘this “will s soon fall. The Cuban. ‘people are desperate for sonething + so: they ean £0 out and fight. | a ces ana aia rou cone to make a contact, or do vou have a nission here -_antted States? | | re 53320. pede Ses8ih2 9 yee because I Wes in @
! Pablo. SHR RYANDIZ toyas (cont, d). . re encircled and Iwas left alone. A lot ‘of militia troops were against me, . Then my first depart ture was for vevana, that, is, - for Sante nds’ eat from there. to. ‘Havana, And then T. wade - a connection to come over here, xy 4a idea here is to contact llajor Joaquin | MET Ss an ae separated from your groun? a ee — was dispers: ed. -T and another youne fellor. canes where e? | aa | ‘He didn’ 14 vent 0 cone to the United States? 7 Loe ‘el, a lidn't nave time to send word to hin, This opportunity ar oe me: to cone yes something whied heppened very fest. : (And tt ‘then - was it en orsenization thet made contact with you for vou + “cone. on | this trip, or viet no problens while leaving in the boat "pnaNoA the problen was. that the trip took too. lone. We let ft ‘ther and e arrived on the) oth. We hed a very Pough tine nd water. men an eiroreft. flew over “the ke nt word to. a. doast Guard cutter watch prousht how you sot. here? — * personel opal Gil regarding the towns near the Hscambray; § Some Comnut aw - saadbliepsaraeniat sate Pige so>10 are With us. -
i Moyas (cont. ) ou “now ¢ any of their ‘names? 1696 names? -Comminists. dnow some. Gan 3 you sive me their nanes? ves. . “Ye were reported that © man was a member of the G-2, his name soe Sty : * ie “ois Angel SERNAND: s he fron? fron. nicara Lee, from a part cA ijea qirro. - t think he: 8 grocery store. — ind another man fron there who! is “naned andres and who is a. ‘Communist. Where is PEREZ fron? Also from Quirro. And there is another nen called Arsenio (LsU nicaracus, There are many other Ca23- “but i don! ia remember x het other forces ere operating in that area, in addition to 6 - PAgHROO's forces. well, there Le enotner man called ivis VARGAS , and another called & 4s QUILESN's first name ? U1, I dont & know. se operates in a different cassia ev iin has brothers. But ix I said, T have nad very Little im because he operates 1 one area and we in another, and: now old is ne; is ve oun jell, I aon't mow nis are, but he is foun. He aust be around D2 We 53320. “Docla: 32373812 Page 10 . - - .
nterview of ‘Pablo ‘eaNanDE sz Moyes (cont, ) nd who else “are operating With him? Well, the Sroups there are dividea ‘by areas. Each has a “aitterent one of “operations. RAMIREZ is also near that. area, near Sanett Spiritus a Oo. del Agua and Cabeieuan, core +O, Osvaldo RANTRE2, those are the chiefs tao other | areas, | ana do you run into them? Yes, we run into then. _ And “how do. you distinguish ‘yourselves anong each other? wel, we know, each other, and the passwords are know, ui have’ passwords uD there? 35 insure nts have to have them, | coe at ‘conmunieations do. you have betieen the different group thr igh contacts. | ee Berson * to: person. Yes. | rou 1 have no. radios to broadcast. yt least not while Twas there. I don't know if th ed in the lest two 2 months: they are. operating weil Ain thet area? | - that area As very good in Spite of the offensives. one nes to fight every day i: But we fire four shots at the ° mtn ttane and they start runnine. they diz foxholes and encircle us. you fire a shot at ‘then and they out their heads down inside the: ‘hole. oe “all they do is out their sub-machine euns and start firing but keen : their: heads well down. Taen we are able to break the encirelene t eas =: mW 39320. Bockd:32373812 Page 11 .
, “The bad. thing is zal Ang ye ion of the wounded is 2 little: rouch, there are lnttie ~ med cines. They are bandaged and if possible, they ere taken into. the tows where they are given medica 1 attention. tees you 1d many losses? Yes, we. had many, but we. have, inflicted i the nrew 110, 000 thousand militiamen agains t us end attackea mata artillery and heavy weapons, We had to eat poiLled bang wen down ee) the plains, after breaking enolrelenchts during 32. Vine eaten only nine ti imés during all these e devs. then we rea “months and mountains. Dia you | nave neny losses, or aid you inflict heévy losses upon th | OM First we were in @ food situation, We hed over 2,000 armed  -Svelio DUQUE was there at that time, MEMBIBERES, and all those people Then ther sent 10,009 militiamen aceinst us. de foucit hard and_ - dntlieted heavy losses uvon them. Aporoximately 5,000 nilitiane HW 53320 Docld:32373812 Page 12. .
% “Interview of Pablo HERUANDSZ: Movas (cont. ) idea 3 by us and less than 5,000 remained, ‘Ghat was the first group of militianen, then they kevt sending more and more militia troops ntil they hed 110,C00 troops fightines azainst us, Phen our situation became | very difficult, Some of the weakest men were forced to surrender “by hunger, others were killed, And militiamen were killed in great numbers by us. they sent new troops without discipline which were. easy “you have the opportunity of capturing arms from the enéme? we captured some of them, Ne captured nany dzeoh subd mach: nat they are ‘no good, they jem, And we-had no ammo for then, The truth Ls that we didn" t like them very much. fr ‘Then when you used up their ammo, you put. then aside or what? “Then when we had used up their ammo they were no good to us. ie “had to g0 for ammo to Russia, | Men your forces inflicted many losses upon the enemy? Tes, a lot. = you: said. you had recently been in Havana? Yes, q spent t approximately 20 days in Hevana. I spent. ‘Onristmas in “avana. ‘There wasn 't one ‘roasted: pigs it seemed like. “ALL Souls Day. Phe ere was no gatety ore anything, They people are. very upset, very upset, “put they are not yet ready? 1, I'll speak to you clearly. The people, the real ‘people ar | Pidel. “The only ones ‘who are with him are those “whe never. ha 7 t 7 of their own, the rabble. But the real people is opposed to. de nd then + the ‘general feeling is quiterse.ce? . OES Well, “you see, in the past few months there was a lot of discouragement, as Among the underground? No, among the Commuists, The militiamen. You see, many of the militiamen have been indoctrinated. But many are opening up their eyes,  Docld: 32373812 Page 13 me :
say they do not have any orders, fighting with his group. But Evelio knows me more or less on account os : 2 of my brother, lew of 2 able MERMANDEZ Moyas (cont.) | e at first things | were | auite rough for us, but not now, ‘th At ‘first everyone was a Communist, but now the maj Surpaa & against them, And I also think that the Castro Reg im bee ex erminated with lead, ‘Hunger will not overthrow then, The Co wants - a mere unity « among them? . Yes, “there: is quite a bit of unity. ‘But they are wetting because Othey § do ‘not. have orders to do enything, “According to what they told m ; _ they do. not even have orders to light a cigarette. - | There are. no sabotages? . ae No, nothing. they say that they do not have orders to. perfor “sabotages. That is, according to some people with whor T talkea, They Do” you ‘now avelio DuQus well? Well, , Ro, I don't mow him. But my ‘brother does, because he was And whet as your ‘brother doing, is he still. there? No, he isn! ‘t doing anything now because he is. in. grison, uy brother was the ‘pecond: in command of Joaquin CRB BERES, net is your brother! g name? HERNAN DES: loyas. aa velo pugs" s ‘second in command? Joaquin 4a BTRERSS second in command? Se when was ne captured? on the 26th of Pepruary at the time of the big offensive, 332 80 AOE YRJEG DUS" = s brother, and CASTRO (cARRo? tape x
caused MUCK. veeeee ‘You see, they had to surrender because what could mm any sugar cane field there is a guerrilla, What they are waiting for meee then, they would be exterminated, HW 53320. Docla: 32373812 Page 15 And did you ever hear BLANCO mentioned? ~ captain BLANCO? BLANCO? I don! t know, - | That name sounds familiar, And who else were in the zone of operations? a in ‘the Sscambray there were also QUELO, Nardo LIMA (2 - tape not crear) who we were - canght in the offensive, CARRO (? = tape not clear). oe Were. those men also captured? , Yes. there was also ‘Ismael ROA (? ~ tape not minh, a ite ‘captured in February 4 during the big offensive. You see, it seems. they fell i in a very bad area, and they had to....... ‘They captured. | many “men there, many . | - About how many men did you have. up there at that time? Approximately over 2,000- men. We also had many unarmed nen, and that i an unarmed man do up there? And you say that you are receiving few arns now? Well, arms are received but a little Slowly. A few come in every now ana then. “But I don't know about the last few months, It is said that Z quite a few arms have. ‘been sent up there lately, And that many men have | | gone UP, and some expeditions have infiltrated ‘through different areas, according + to what my: contacts nave told me , oe ee That arms are being sent in then? — ee Yes, they are going in. In Cuba. there are insurgents everywt re, as the omer. 1 That there bee something effective so they can. back all those people, “Because, you see, in some of those areas the guerrillas es ean 6 operate because, they will send 15, 000 or 20,000 nilitianen a a[h
WW. 53320. ‘Pocla:32373812 Page 16 o Reese: rview of Pablo ISREANDEZ Moyas (cont.) But at _bney rise in rebellion in an area, and ther send the 15, 000 2 20, 000 madlitie: men, and then there is another uprising in another area ide that militie force, don't they? “But then the uprisings in different areas have to “be. coordinated, “ae is the. oresent Situation of | Osvaldo RALTREZS 1 risht . 4s ise all right? right, But he néeds ammunition, Then. you: ‘believe that if they were g@iven more. arms | end ‘aninunition, that more men cou ld fo uD Anto that area to operate? Oertal inl, Phat is what everyone is waiting ¢ or. 7 As this” th *! weed arms: The peovle are desperate to take 8 rifle in their Ken Sy And have F sent heavy artillery agains’ vou in thats are .¢ wots with bazookas and artillery, ana: nortars, “use the air Force against you? ven't used the ‘Air Force. Not up in the poy +t thank ‘the “Air” Force is effective no in “tne wood 2 fire from doim there? ae ; — 4 you i i ESSE pelieve that/received more supplies of arus and ammo that. | You would be. jofned by more men, es. 1 can assure that to vou. “he people are avin: to. go up t ‘hilis y but they are holdins beck because what would all those” ‘nen do
executed in 24 hours. MW 53320 Docld:32373812. Page 17 0-1 = Interview of Pablo HERNANDEZ Moyas (cont. ) and how could more peonle maintain themselves up in the Escanbray with rerard to food? Nei, ‘Like I said, everyone is collaboratine up there: Ana also the food thet. is sent through the contacts, The cows and food that are. “from the pea Sants, And we manage to xet alonz, n they are collaborating very much with you? . “Yes, of course, The peasants uo there are such good people. that Piaer “took 1,000 or 2,000 of them out of there and sent then to the cooperative | - ferns because he said that they were collaborating with us, “And ‘then - they set up ‘posts in the houses vacated by those people, Sut there are still any good ones Lert ana they don! % attack you fron those - ‘posts? 11, there are also good, people in those ‘posts. Je also have 1 If at weren? st for that, where would | we be now? — then all those peovls are also collaborating with you? Sone or then, That is a very delicate hing, ‘there are a | Sommnists there too, Sut it is a very delicate situation deea of these of fficers are found out to be collaborating “With us,  @nen the situation there is difficult anyway? In-what sense? 9 operate un there. llL-we are “holding back, waiting. Because one of those posts — be. attacked and the arns captured. But what would be gained by th "they would send heavy forces arainst us. We are. wait ine, and orders: have _ been received not to-do an vthing, to wait, That the time will come to act, fhe ‘trut th is that the men are uvset. This is a problem that : “have been solved before. Not let 1% take so lone. ra
grouns “everywhere up in |rms . Th the Bneruet. aha ve sone « small arouns in the cane fields, Also i saa not ‘come to the United . States on an Ly specie: 1 cane because SSuBT BERS himself vad sent. TO qd he 1 come out. But. at that time we: “could y, whe ere and I was: caucht in: & very. ah me were, ts nd _ then | go to Havena, “Then our own “people toid me tol nove you contimie to have the gene. “00d furtune here, _‘Thenk you, goodbye. OND OF TAPS RECORDING 3320 Docla:32373812