DoctlId: 20024 (202) S5%-2345 B.C. VASHLNGTON, REPORTERS BULTLDING, ie Ss. Jon VEU STRENT, ae os ey ta Ww Uy a on un 1 OM. ps = OQ Oo oo > so 32277215 Page 136 = rea aes haba. it. 1~184 This. is a typical defector syndrome. It is typically for defectors, who might otherwise be reasonally well-balanced people, do things like this to make themselves feel important, : and so on. Mr. Goldsmith. I have a few more questions to. get into with you before we are finished for the day. Mr. Scelso. I say that because of the Nosenko case. Mr. Goldsmith. I appreciate that. Although I am not handling that matter, I will definitely pass that information on:.to the appropriate individual. Did you conduct an investigation in reference to a flight from Mexico to Cuba that took place on November 27, 1963, involving a Cuban-American? Mr. Scelso. This report baffles me. I was asked by the Senate Committee about this.. I. have discussed it since with Mr. Phillips. As I recall it, Headquarters sent a cable to Mexico telling me this, and it is not clear where we got this information. rT am. now convinced that we got it from the FBI because the FBI was observing the Mexico Airport,: just like we were, and they were getting reports. from the Mexican authorities. They probably told us this and we informed Mexico, who already knew it, and attached no importance to it because, as Phillips now tells me, because, as we all knew, | a things like this happened all the time. i SEROET 90196 Sg POT | Soda LTR be ALOSHSON REZORTING COMPAR
SPGAL I : 1-185 Mr. Goldsmith. What do you mean, things like this. happened all the time? tw Mr. Scelso. Planes were held for travellers who would f | { | | otherwise miss them, for Cuban officials, and so on. z z Mr. Goldsmith. Did the Agency ever actually investigate” : ‘| this particular matter? | 7 a Mr.. Scelso. It investigated to the extent that there z 3 | was nothing theft to investigate... The plane was gone. The : 3 : man was on it. He had not identified himself before he left. : 16 We had very complete coverage of the Mexico City Airport! H g | and watched the Cuban flights closely, but where it sometimes ! = ! : . | $ 2 happened that an important Cuban official would. comé late, - ! @ : 1 ‘he would go directly to the plane without going through 5 Va travel controls.’ | 1 i = al Attthat time, the man was gone. There was no picture | : 18 of him. Nobody looked at his passport. Period. | = oll Mr. Goldsmith. You did not bother to ask any Cuban 13 employees in the Airport about the man? = | : = | Mr. Scelso. We did not have any source of Cuban ! . 1 é 29 | employees. We only had Mexican. police. | | a a Mr. Goldsmith. Were any of them questioned about him? : yo, | Mr..Scelso. Yes, this was a routine thing. We hada whole reporting set up there with that, two of them, who | 2, | watched things like this. But the report from:them was that . the man had just gone on the plane and they did not know who i 901967 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPAAY Docld: 32277215 Page 1867
Doctid: 1-186 he was. ry Mr. Goldsmith. He was identified as a Cuban-American, not just a Cuban. . | | | Mr. Scelso.. I do not know how that identification was , Fa s | made. Maybe they looked at his passport. Maybe they saw é g.| that he had an American passport or something like that, or | 5 7 " he-spoke with a Cuban accent. : S . Mr.. Goldsmith. I am really afraid I cannot tell you : 3 | what I have asked other witnesses by virtue of the Committee's | : co! rules.. . | Mr. Scelso. -He is the man who knows all about it. Mr. Goldsmith. Apparently, Headquarters received a dispatch stating that the Cuban-American had ~ been: reported as. looking suspicious and, in March of '64, a cable was sent 1s | from the Monterey base-to the effect that a local.agent with REPORTERS BULELDING, WASHINGTON, | Mexican Federal Police had information on a man who generally il { We. | fit the description of the Cuban American. That man. supposedly l I ! un involved in the Kennedy assassination. Apparently, the Mexico City station sent a report that 300 7TH STRELT, a was consistent with that, a report from the Monterey base. Do you recall that particular incident? Mr. Scelso. I do not recall the latter. It sounds!like | feedback. from police. You see, a query would go out to the | Mexican police saying who could this have been, and they come up and say it is someone like our security suspect. _Seukel 7 01968 ty ALSERsS ORTING Come SLY 32277215 Page 188 . of
1-187 Mr. Goldsmith. I should point out that we are talking about two different flights here: One occurred November 22nd, | arrival of some other individuals; the other was a flight + | ] | allegedly involving a flight that was delayed until the 2 7 November 27th. | 5 P In any event, you do not recall any specific investiga- | S 7 | tion that was done concerning those two flights? z | Mr. Scelso. Yes. | ; 5 Mr. Goldsmith. — Those are all of the questions that I 2 | have. : 7 Let. me just review this other stack here for a moment. ! 2 7 (Pause) - | @ z 13 | Do you have any information as to the manner in which | E ta the Domestic Contacts Division selects photographs taken by : : 7 tourists for retention by the CIA? — ! : 1é Mr. Scelso. No. I have never heard anything about | s . | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether Alexis Davidson, who = | at one time, was an Embassy doctor. in the U.S. Embassy in : : ca Moscow was a CIA employee? | ne Mr. Scelso.. Never heard of him. | pad 22 Mr. Goldsmith. Have you ever heard of a man named od 73. {| William Gaudet? | . | ‘ t ' familiar name.. 001969 | 2 | Mr. Scelso. Not that I recall. It is a very faintly | } \ Docld: 32277215 Page 1869 . a
Ae at weiss a 1-188 | Mr. Goldsmith. It was a man issyeq . a Mexican tourist card ;, immediately. before Oswald. and it turned out he had | at one time worked for the Agency.. { | Mc. Scelso. When was that discovered? ae 2 5 | Mr.. Goldsmith. That was initially withheld, as a 7 i , . , 3 4 | matter of fact, from public disclosure and was just. recently a iy i = — , S 7 | SaScovence “nacvercentty when it was inadvertently released. z 2 i In any event, my question was whether Gaudet, to your ; 5 | knowledge, had any connection with the Agency in ‘63? ; i a | . | - a Mr. Scelso.. Not that I know of. £ do not know where c Hl I have heard the name. , ee < va | Mr. Goldsmith.. If you remember the name, would you ia s i - ir i 2 . . . i ry 2 -, | get in touch with us? Ss 7 a | =, i “Mr. Scelso. Yes. = .. | is.that all that you know about, whether he worked for | £ S| the Agency and so on?.-That Might trigger off something. = 7 | Mr.. GObdsmith. Gaudet was sort of a journalist that = ls | Sostaces the Agency in propaganda-related matters. = \ i- al i . { - 19 | Mr. Scelso. In Mexico? = a Mr. Goldsmith. South America, Latin America.. He pub- o av | ; . i | : +) | lished a newspaper. | eae . 4 : ESE ay meen Mr. Scelso. From where? ; 21 | Mr. Goldsmith. He is from New Orleans and Mississippi. ‘} ‘ ta | Mr. Scelso. That certainly seems significant. I do ; i | i — . . e ze.) not think it was uncovered during my regime. I do not remember ceRE 001970 i ALSERSON td ie ANS tS aeaser . : Docld: 32277215 Page 190
Doctid: n 4 4 ve) pa Pe) N \ rey : w & ~ “ , c ~ 7 — ~ e a Land Me rs 3 < - ia S g = oT] a « 7 = 4 Le ec z 1.4 “co te = =. tad ot = = v¢ Fran bt So = 13 > n“ 17 - & i8 tn = 1 = 3 ~~ ry S 20 ra J mS aS a Bey 39 4 *~ ‘s i 32277215 Page 191- 1-189 that we had those Lists at all, of who else was on the bus andwwho was driving with Oswald« Mr. Goldsmith. I should say that this man was not necessarily driving with Oswald, but he was issued a Mexican tourist card immediately preceding Oswald. Mr. Scelso. You get them at the border, do you not? Mr. Goldsmith. I think you obtain them -- I thought Oswald obtained his in New Orleans, but I am not. sure. trip from New Orleans to Europe? Mr. Scelso. No. Mr. Goldsmith. .Do you know whether he had any Agency connections? Mr. Scelso. I never heard of him. Mr. Goldsmith. There was another defector whose name was Robert Edward Webster who defected at the same time as Oswald. Do you know whether he, in fact, was a CIA agent? Mr. Scelso. I never heard that he was. I read his name in Epstein's book. I have nevertheard of him otherwise. Mr. Goldsmith. Was it ever a matter of procedure for the Agency to use someone who pretends to be a defector as an agent? Mr .. Scelso. I have never known of such an operation, but I can conéeive..that it was done. It would nevér have happened in any Branch or Department where I was employed. ALDESSON RESORTIN 001974
we 3 RCE : a ae 3 Viz 7 jo 1-190" | Mr. Goldsmith. Why not? - rey 2. SS ae Mr. Scelso. I was never involved with Soviet operations | 3 : in the field, I handled a lot of things, but I was never in | 4 | the Soviet Branch, or anything like that. 3 ‘| Mr..Goldsmith. Do you know whether George de Mohrenschielt { i ' 2 $ | had any connection with the Agency? | = "| Mr. Scelso. Not to my knowledge, except for the allega- | S * | Hon that I read in the book, that he was in contact with a | : pj an named Moore who worked for us.. a \ ; : z a | De Mohrenschiélt was a puzzle to me, and after reading : li | Bpstein's book, it makes me wonder whether he was not a | 4 j = 12. || source of the FBI or one of the military intelligence services. “S © E 13 , With all his Nazi associations and his Leftist associations | = | richocheting all over the place. | = i | : is | Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know whether Oswald ever spent | 2 Is | any time in a CIA safe house? : ‘4 7 | Mr. Scelso. Not that I have ever heard. : is Mr. Goldsmith.. Do you know whether Oswald's cousin : oly Maril Mose ? Fa yn Dorothy heray ever worked for the CIA? : S 7 Mr. Scelso. Not that I know of. : ee Mr. Goldsmith. Is it possible that Oswald may have been | \ 4 “oO > 3 / N <- | debriefed by the CIA indirectly on his return to the United ‘ States; for example, the International Resuce Committee may have 4 |contacted Oswald and, by contacting him,: could the epresenta- | ne] aw , itive of the International Rescue Committee have been acting for’ a ALSERSON sbabiete No FcOMeay Docld: 32277215 Page 192 3
1-191 the CIA? Mr. Scelso.. I do not know that the International Rescue. | i : bs ioe) . {AnD a Ey Committee was affiliated with us. You may, but I do not. | i would not know. | Es ‘| Somehow, the name sounds vaguely familiar to me. I | 3 é think it. was mentioned in Epstein's book. 5 : Wait a minute. The International Rescue Committee, is | 3 that not. a Russian emigre organization? s) | Mr. Goldsmith. My impression is that it is not limited 2 a i ! = 19 | to assisting Russian emgres. | = nt (Pause) | B = 12 "Would: .it-havé béen Agency. practice - to ..have- | Y J : 13 attempted to insulate itself, the Agency from Oswald, by | E Ie getting an intermediary tordebrief them? : 2 : is | Mr. Scelsoi:>It could. have been. I have no knowledge, g i = Is | really, of any attempt by the Agency to contact Oswald, either ‘4 "| directly. or. through a front organization when he got back to : : 3 | the United States. Nothing like that ever came to my atten- | a qt = cies It was not revealed in any traces. | 5 | Mr. Goldsmith. Have you ever heard the name Spass T. | acme! | Raikin? | ) pa’ 22 Mr. Scelso. No, except in the book. | 22 Mr. Goldsmith. Do you know if he had any Agency connec~ | ) a4 tion? 25 Mr. Scelso. What was he? : "ARP 13 H ALDERSON REPORTING COMPSALY Docld: 32277215 Page 193 st
1-192 i : Mr. Goldsmith. He was a man who met with Oswald 2 upon Oswald's return to the United States, met him at the boat. 3 Mr. Scelso. I wonder about that, but I have never heard 4 of the name. | | = 7 Mr. Goldsmith. I have nothing further. I would like v , i 4 6 | to thank you very much for your time and the great inconvenien¢ : 7 that you have been put here to by coming to visit with us. | S 7 Normally, when a witness testifies before a hearing, | 5 3 the procedure at the end is to give the witness an opportunity’ 2 | ~ 1c to make a statement. If you would like the opportunity to make S i | 2 ry a statement at this time, feel free. | § a Mr. Scelso. I would just like to congratulate you | 12 | gentlemen on the thoroughness and motivation with which you REPGAYTEES RULEDING, ci are going at this problem and wish you every success. ig Mr. Goldsmith. Thank you very much. is Mr. Scelso, as you are not in the United States, are . ' you willing to waive the requirement of a signature to this : 3 deposition? : 9 | Mr. Scelso. Yes, I am. < 29 (Whereupon, at 4:20 pem. the Executive Session ceased.) ot --- | Se mM aw =| jx e.2 im) DocId:32277215 Page 194 i 1
CERTIFICATE OF RERORTER I, Rosemary C. Tascione, the officer before whom the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition don was duly sworn by the Notary; that the testimony of said Shue 2In§ witness was taken by myself, stenomask reporter, and there- after reduced to typewriting under my direction; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the 20oe4 (902) <) parties to the action in which this deposition was taken, and hoc, oO | further, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney tor counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor financially WASULUGTON , “ or otherwise interested in the outcome of the action. BUTLOTHSG, rey REEGICELES ot REPORTER 7 . \ ~ vt = fy i - ii a lr 4 “ iy ~ ig ou = H in 4 _ i = 9 = i . Ho pong in 2° sr 7 3 a0 i 4 iF atx ar all ° : Nee WT ¥ " ° ets at an 7) aa y= an u aa! oo 8 : 3 F adc as 4 ut H ‘ 001975. Docld: 32277215 Page 195