: . 1 Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 “IAFM=OPS~HU-sx- 25 Sep 79 SUBJECT: Minutes of DOD GRILL FLAME Committee Meeting 1. Meeting was held in ota Boncecence Room, 0930 hours, 25 September 1979, ANENDees: See tyclosure 1, 2. —~in- attendance were: Dale Graff sc | LTC Watt MAT Stoner SG1J SG1I CIA Dr. Vorona Billy Charlie SG1J 1.[  Jaistributea copies of the minutes of the 12 July 79 DOD Grill Flame Committee Meeting. He asked for corrections or changes to the minutes. 2. Dale Graff ~ Have validated ICR's with me (copies) to give to each person present. Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 SG1I
Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 and she is interested in finding out what we need in the area of collection. SG1I [ Reference Item 20 - add right/left hemisphere - is this related. who gets what requirement where. SG1 STONER: Which researchers do tney| eax to. A rs ne SG1J Dale and [wana develop this between now and whatever SG1I after we have meeting witnf SG1I - Send requirements through normal channels with information copy to me. SG1J | - Let minutes stand. SG1I STONER: Re #12. [ __]inaicatea that he had sent a couple copies over or whatever office of the CIA was supposed to send office. SG1I | pas a copy. | pas not seen. SG1J 2 Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2
Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 OLD BUSINESS: (Asked for by fd SG1d DR. VORONA - There's another review panel has been set up at Secretary Brown's request. DOD Advisory Board, Chairman Mansford Gale of the Army. Apparently they have been set up to provide another scientific and overview to give the Under Secretary of the Army a warmer feeling regarding this subject. Have already made rounds to SRI, etc. . Vorona invited to talk to Group, 26 Sep, 1000 hours - informal. Vorona met Gale a few weeks ago. Gale had selection of the group. One psychiatrist, scientists, engineers, mathameticians, Jesse Orlansky will be on this committee. VORONA suspects this committee to get together with each and every organization to look into particular involvements in the matter. CHARLIE - They came to MICOM. Billy and I gave review. Orlansky was in the group. They understood the program but disagreed on protocol. Yet, offered no suggestions. STONER: I am a member of that Group, as an advisor. There are SGFOIA3 nine members. Gale is the Chairman. Dr. Halloway 06 Scientist Halloway has background in this. Dr. Douglas Tang, Army Res Int Bio Statistician Dr. Rich Montgomery - Engineer R&A California Cartwright - Navy, China Lake (well balanced person). Approved For Release 2004706/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2
eee Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 DALE REPORT: Russians are looking for gifted children in psychic abilities (Moscow). RADECT. Moscow/Lenigrad - Flashing Light Experiment. Radect says there was correlation. Radeck is Czeckosilvokian. [attended a session in Madison, Wisconsin where two boys from Japan with an interpreter attempted images on photographic film and metal bending. Whole session was far too loose to verify demonstrations. There is a video tape on one of the boys. Dale will try to bring this tape to the next meeting. Japan has offered no official statements re their interest in RV. Dale questioned: Why must Walker's name be linked with Aberdeen Proving Ground? “The meeting was hosted by Dr. Uphoff. al a Dr. Hasted (Professor J. B. Hasted) from England has had 3 or 4 years work with metal softening. Hans Bender in Germany makes field trips to Switzerland actually deforms metal and then has it go back together. National Inquirer provides leads sometimes. Article regarding a foot doctor in Palo Alto. He and his children have the ability to bend metal. Dr. Lane (the foot doctor) has offered his children to SRI for demonstrations. PA meeting held in San Francisco. Brain Mind Pamphlet has small article. Dales office is doing informal things. Into diagonostics. Medical diagonostics. Unofficial - not FTD. STONER: In the library at ARE, there are two books we might be interested in: THE DIVINING HAND (regarding dowsing) - Marine Corps Combat early 70's Vietnam. Finding tunnels, etc. SCIENCE AND PSI, by Carol Nash, C. Thomas Pub. 1979 release 9 Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2
Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 SG1J Any further business? SG1I [|__| We are presently trying to define a program. Proceeding Cautiously. Program with $70,000 contract with SRI. We're concerned with Evaluation and Protocols. Qualifications sensor. Vocabulary. Targets - keep statistics and evaluations separate. Would like a more formal (written) pact with SRI. We have a six month effort to start. Want to get an Evaluation Plan. SG1 | STONER: Suggested to | |enat Johns (Princeton) as the person to write the Evaluation, SG1I [ Need: Final Security Guide (especially for contractor) Protocols Document (Now using INSCOM draft guide prepared by AMSAA) Security Classification Guide WATT: Committee was aksed for comments four months ago re Security Classification Guide. Comments were to be provided to John Kramar of AMSAA, CHARLIE: Bill Johnson and his security people are working on it tied with DIA. STONER: will talk to Pattakos regarding security profile. CHARLIE: will have Bill Johnson call Stoner and explain his work regarding security. SG1I [| - The Army's Evaluation from the Surgeon General - if we Gome up with more stringent protocol, will we be covered. SG1J | | Tt's now 1150, do you want to keep going. BILLY: Yes, keep going. SG1I will use SRI remote viewers. SRI invites contract monitors to RV. SG1I po wos net acuare thes, oved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 10
Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 SGt1J | + ADMIN NOTES: SG1J SG1J 1. Watt will send minutes tol 2. Second Thursday of odd numbered month our scheduled meetings. 8 Nov 79 will be next meeting, 0930, DIA Conference Room. 3. Will hold meetings here (DIA) until there are other proposals. 4, Asked for suggested comments for the next meeting. STONER: Security. If you have something to discuss at next meeting get these to him a month prior to meeting so he can put out an agenda. WATT: Concerned that SRI does things in an awkward manner. They use whatever resources they have available. They used one of our people who just happened to be there. Security and SRI - They tasked one of our viewers over the telephone. SRI has tremendous telephone security problems. WATT: Is there anyway this committee can get a secure telephone line at SRI. CHARLIE: There's a daycom at Mountain View. Suggested WATT give SRI a security briefing and have it reviewed every 2 months. STONER: said just call them and say don't do it again. CHARLIE: We tried for a secure phone before at SRI. Didn't work out. Its only a 10-15 minute drive from SRI to Mountain View. WATT: Gale Committee visits his office Thursday, 27 Sep - may be out of a job Friday. CHARLIE: Out of the group, Gale was the most reasonable. ll Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2
Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 BILLY: PK program still in equipment building stage. Phase II early November. Protocols are still in abeyance. COL Busher of Fort Detrick hasn't decided yet. STONER: Cong Rose will be DOD Representative on Panel. SG1I [ Cryptanalysts - related to chemistry of the brain. We are Looking for people who can look inside of restricted spaces. Also, ones who can read a document or a message. SG1I [ Suggested when calling SRI to use a pay telephone. This is more secure. SG1J | | Adjourn meeting for today (1220 hours). Approved For Release 2004/06/29---CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2
25 SCF 7) . Approved For Release 2004/06/29 : CIA-RDP96-00788R002000130014-2 + ‘ SG1l | : | Scat Wert He INscom (av) 423-1829 CV me (Ww) 287 635/ ML. | VAT ae PLMILSC oe 2257 SO¥K SG1 Ws WES COREE ly (a —— Av 7#6- 3509 ee a | AN A SG1I