Q0788ROOO3OO86OOO1-5
Approved For Release 20004n
#36:
There's quite a few little things up here, protrude up above
the. ..protrudin' up above the... roof.
The roof appears...
very dark in color.
I would have thought that it'd been very
light toned to reflect the heat.
Appears dark.
There's a
goddamn antenna up here somewhere and I been. ..X know, it's
probably like looking for the sky’s blue, but... I guess all
roofs have got antennas, but there's one around here some-
where .
I looked for a TV antenna but I didn't
see it.
I
think if I stand on the wall directly over the entrance...
I keep looking for the antenna to my left.
But I don't
see it.
But it's there.
#14:
One last question before we break.
When you're standing...
#36:
I'm sorry, what?
#14:
As you're standing looking for the antenpa, which direction
do you feel you are facing?
#36:
Oh, I'm standing.. ..on the edge of the building, directly
over the, the door where I left the guard
so let's
see,
that,
that makes me looking north,
I guess.
#14 :
Very good.
I want you now to relax,
and I want you to defocus
I want you to unfbcus from this session-
#36:
I'm awful tense for some reason.
#14 :
Okay,
I want you to
just lie there,
relax.
Take a deep
breath,
stretch your arms and legs and slowly drift back
to this room.
We will pause
at this time.
All right.
We’re now ready for debrief.
#39 :
Okay,
uh,
again #36, was the- when you arrived at the gate,
was the lock on the inside or outside of the gate?
#36:
Oh,
uh,
I think it must have been on the inside, because I
was looking at the, the chain,
following the chain around.
It went around across the, uh, the bars...
#39 :
Then what we perceive that-
#36:
And,
I was looking for the,
I was looking at the lock and I
couldn't
see it,
and then I focused very tight and I could
see it.
So
I don't think it was on the side that I was
when I was looking the chain go by.
So,
I,
I think I just
focused in on the lock,
and I think it must have been on the
other side.
I don't remember asking myself about that
at
the time.
#39 :
Okay, when, when you saw the silver colored key, where was
the key?
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000300860001-5
Approved For Release 20
6-00788R000300860001 -5
#36:
Oh,
just in space.
#39:
And letters "JL".
#36:
"JL", yeah.
Yeah, those are really peculiar letters, they
were kind of stylized,
like
a, uh, trademark or something.
Would
you,, like those?
#39 :
Mm-hmm
.
#14:
Why don't you draw the whole key as you perceived it?
#36:
I,
I had trouble with the-
#L4:
As best you can.
#36:
-part that is, goes in the lock.
I kept, they kept changing
on me . .
.
#39:
#36, would it be just as easy for us to go through the
questions and then let you do your drawings in peace?
#36:
Well, yeah, what did, whatever you-
#39:
Okay,
I would,
I would like, uh,
one of the key.
#36:
Okay.
#39 :
Okay.
The smooth metal plate you saw on the gate,
red and
white-
#36:
To the left.
#39:
To the left?
#36:
Yeah.
Oh,
that, that was on the gate.
Oh,
oh,
okay, I’m
sorry.
#39:
But you saw a sign to the left?
#36:
No,
I saw a sign to the left of some kind that was red and
white, but I saw a smooth plate that was about 18 inches
wide and about
3 feet long near the top of the gate to my
right as I was facing the building.
#39:
Okay.
But .. .nothing on that?
#36:
I didn't see anything on it was smooth,
and to the,
just a
few feet to the left, uh,
above shoulder height,
I think,
about
shoulder height going up was the white with some red
on it.
I tried to dope it out, what it was,
see if there
was any letters or anything but I couldn’t make it out.
#39:
No,
no pictures or anything?
Just...
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000300860001-5
Approved For Release 2000/q^g^p^|g^p^88R000300860001-5
#36:
It kept changing
so much that there was patterns, but I
couldn't make sense out of it.
#39:
Okay,
and the plants you saw, they were off to the left of
the gate?
#36:
The what?
#39:
You saw some vegetation?
#36:
Oh, that was after I went through,
I was heading toward the
building,
I think.
#39:
Okay.
#36:
It was off to the left.
#39:
Okay, guard.
Male,
forty! sh,
light
toned,
short sleeved
shirt, dark trousers.
#36:
By the way, he had a beard.
#39:
Strong feeling of security.
Feels. . .could not march by the
desk without being stopped.
Sense of restriction
#36:
Oh, I'm sorry, was you,
are you,
I thought you were reading
from your notes that's-
#39:
I,
I,
I,
I was,
I was just-
#36:
Oh,
okay.
#39:
-gonna see if you could elaborate on that.
#36:
Oh,
okay,
I,
I didn't realize.
I was just waitin'.
Okay.
I... afraid I was flying there.
Will you read it again?
#39:
Okay.
Strong feeling of security.
Feel you could not
march by the, by the desk without being stopped,
sense of
restriction.
#36:
Uh,
okay.
I had the feeling that the person was under instruc-
tions to be courteous, to display a facade of helpfullness
and courtesy.
But that you'd probably get yourself blown away
if you proceeded beyond.
But the person put forth a very
friendly helpful atmosphere.
I don't know what to make of
that,
but,
uh,
I felt underneath that that the person would,
the person,
or...passing that point was very dangerous.
That's why I felt
a restrictive feeling.
I also felt there
was a woman through that door behind him......
#39:
Okay
Wonder if he brings his girlfriend in?
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000300860001-5
Approved For Release 2000/01®
788R000300860001 -5
#36:
Hmm?
#39s
Wonder if he brings his girlfriend in?
#36:
I’ll be damned if ,1 know.
I don’t even know where that is.
#39:
Okay,
at that point when you went through the wall.
#36:
To,
to the left.
#39:
Now you went up and you looked down the hallway,
and then
you went through the wall to your right.
#36:
Oh, through that door?
#39:
Mm-hmm.
#36:
Yeah,
okay.
#39:
Then you got white-
#36 :
Right through there,
about from here to that wall there,
there was a indentation to the right that had some kind of
counter top or something with some equipment.
It was dark
colored, darker than the rest of the room.
#39 :
Say the light-
#36:
Seen
’em in there, there's some wires or something.
Communications or like that, you commented on that.
#36:
Yeah,
I had a feeling I had.
#39:
Okay, you said that you, you felt there was a specialized
function in the room.
#36:
Yeah.
Because of the closet to my left.
It'd be
just to
the left where that doorway comes in.
Okay,
I didn't
see
a bar and places to hang coats.
I saw little cubbyholes
and niches,
and there was some long, tall narrow slots like
you'd slip a briefing board or something like that into.
Uh,
and maybe
a place for sticking attache cases or some-
thing, you know.
I don't know.
But they were about
3> 4
inches wide,
and... 20,
25 inches tall.
And there was some
horizontal shelves,
8,
9 inches wide that had some items on
it
smaller than my fist
#39:
Okay, the... when, when you saw the closet immediately on
your left, did it look like it extended a long way?
#36:
Deep in.. .and the left portion looked like it went back
a
meter, maybe four feet.
And the slots looked like they're,
£31
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000300860001-5
Approved For Release 200,
0788R000300860001 -5
#36 :
uh,
narrow, vertical things, boards or something,
come right
up to the door facing, was on the right.
I just had a feel-
ing they stopped back there about,
about 20 or 30 inches.
#39:
How, how tall?
#39:
How tall were the slots?
#39:
The whole closet.
#36 :
The whole closet?
Well, the whole closet looked like it
was, you know, normal size of that door there, little wider.
#39:
Maybe 8 feet tall?
#36 :
Yeah.
Something like that.
I don't think it went anywhere
else,
I think it
just, uh...it was strange, I'd never seen
anything like it.
#39:
Okay.
Then- what color was it, by the way?
#36 :
What?
#39:
The closet.
#36 :
Hell,
I don't know
Tans and browns it seemed to be, warn
tone.
It wasn't a black or it wasn't a white,
something as
harsh as that.
It was kind of .. .comfortable, neutral tones.
#39:
Okay, then you walked over to the north wall and looked
through the windows.
#36 :
I saw something in the middle of the room,
oh,
I saw a
couch or something in the middle of the room.
#39:
Sure it was couch?
#36 :
I felt reclining,
and I kept looking and looking, trying to
get from the awareness to the visual.
And I
saw,
as a result
of that effort,
I saw a couch.
A brown couch with three
cushions.
And it was either leather or, uh,
(cough)..
#39:
Couldn't have been a stool type thing.
#36 :
I didn't
see a stool.
Oh,
a stool I saw, but there's two
of
'em.
It was over near the, towards the, if that's where
the niche was, where the stuff was, they were further that
way and about this position.
And the couch thing I saw would
be over there.
And the closet would be there.
#39:
See any ladders?
#36 :
No,
I saw no ladders, but I
saw couple stools over there and
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000300860001-5
Approved For Release 200
S00788R000300860001 -5
#36:
I thought "Well,
hell,
that’s, they are for the work space."
So I didn't mention 'em.
#39:
Okay, then looking out the back window.
Through the bars.
Uh, you saw kind of a park area with a building.
#36:
Lots of distance.
Looking out the window he was about there.
And I saw a street here going away from me in that direction.
And there was one over there, block or
so away I guess.
I'm
talking about distance, I'm not,
I didn't
see a block.
And
this, the building, is pretty good size building there,
and
those little buildings on the other side
of that street
weren't quite as tall.
Stuck in between two lower,
except
that big tall building there, then right back over here was
9. • • •
#39 :
Okay,
so looking-
#36:
Church spire.
#39 :
Looking due north across the little-
#36:
Something like a park,
some trees.
#39 :
Then you see a huge tall building.
#36:
Yeah, right there.
But it was taller than it was wide.
(mumbling, mumbling, mumbling)
get another tape
(mumbling).
#39 :
Or do you just want to wait until he gets back?
*
#36:
Oh,
no.
He said we got about
5 minutes on this one,
so-
#39 :
So we're, we're
still gonna- okay.
#36:
-by the. time he gets back.
#39 :
Uh, that's the largest building, you could
see, was, was due
north.
Smaller building off to the left... and then taller.
#36:
Way back I saw a narrow tall thing that reminded me of, more
of a spire than the tall building .
Uh,
something disturbed
me,
I,
I saw a, kind of
a,
a blue haze.
And I wouldn't
think that it would be associated with that area.
I know
it disturbed me at the time,
and something happened and I
lost it.
But to my left I saw kind of a haze about
50 feet
off the ground.
#39:
Okay, you said in that room...uh, when you turned back
around you had
a, kind of a high frequency
s-, uh,
squeal.
#36:
Yeah, it- real,
like a dog whistle.
#39 :
Did you hear any clicking?
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000300860001-5