Approved For Release 206@4 #66: #44: #66: #44: #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: #44: #44: #44: Approved For Release 200QhEMDE* aE insRDP96-00788R000900520001-6 I show Number Two as being two half-round devices. PAUSE Okay. I got. . . a sensation of damp. . . Is that the one I described. . . Something like an escape ladder. Perhaps it is. Okay. PAUSE Now, wait a minute. Someplace inbetween here there's another drawing which was. . this. Shiney aluminum shape. It looked like the bell of a trumpet. I'm tempted to put a light bulb on the top of that. PAUSE Okay. Now, from here, there was a bar. . that came down. . to another bar. Okay, this shouid be Three. This should be Two. What do you get as Four. Its um. . . that's a good question. [I have one, two, three, three a, Okay, 3a. Is (not audible) wall, or something? Yeah. PAUSE Now, that's not right. PAUSE There. PAUSE That's right. It did stop. PAUSE ia -RDP96-00788R000900520001-6
Approved For Release 2064 a le RDP96-00788R000900520001-6 #66: Is that the end then? #44: Yeah. #66: Okay. I don't show a note that I took on Number Four that the, the time sequence of Number Four was when you were saying that you were on the left side against the lighted wall and that you were having trouble moving through the area. #44: Okay. Yeah. Um. . . If there is, you know. (DRAWING) PAUSE #44: I wish I wasn't so success/failure oriented. In all of this. Ah. Four or Five. #66: Okay, well I show that Five here as being only described by you so that you can cue on it later as a hand held in that position. #44: Okay. Its a very odd shape. PAUSE #44: All right. It feels like I'm looking down at it. (TURN OVER TAPE) #44: I think one of the (are we back running?) #66: Yes. #44: I think one of the odd things about this is that wos at least in this instance, I can see through things. And what that really does is mess up my drawing. Because when I draw some- thing I can't see through things. In this case, there appears to be some kind of vertical wall, something. And then there appears to be this white shape. Which feels that it might be made out of something like painted plywood. It doesn't feel heavy as stone. PAUSE I think that there is a vertical. . . there. It feels like it might be a wall; it might be a corner. It feels as if I looked down at it. Approved For Release 200Q)/DAMiA LGIA-RDP96-00788R000900520001-6
Approved For Release -RDP96-00788R000900520001-6 PAUSE To go back to the . . . problem that I had moving from one point to another point. I seem to get one look at things. I seem to be able to see them. But it is .. . a combination, there is a combination of two things. First, that it seems like I'm stuck in something gooey as far as being able to move readily from one place to another. And the other thing, it seems to be is that. if I try to move in a given direction, I'm not in control of the direction that I wind up moving in. It seems to be erratic. And something over which I haven't got very much control as yet. So that I can say that I had the feeling, in the case of Drawing Number Four that. . I was . . .standing behind #39 and #6.5 looking at what they were doing and the object in Drawing Number Three was back and to my right. He. . to be able to get from the position of Drawing Number Four to Draw- ing Number Three ought to be just turn around and go over there. But I can't seem to do it that way. PAUSE #66: Now your last Number (not audible) I have as Number Six. You said there was something that looked like a fist. #44: Oh! No. Wait a minute. We're missing two. There was the one and there was going outside. Six is a shape like this. PAUSE And this was dark. . . If I could spell. . . And this was Seven, was back outside and I had the feeling. . of. . . a series of pipes. PAUSE Overhead. That's strange. They didn't seem to be connected. . . this way. Just a series of pipes. There were two other early impressions that I want to note. PAUSE Just on the "dump everything" principle. And this was. Approved For Release 2 IA-RDP96-00788R000900520001 -6
Approved For Release #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: #66: Approved For Release 2000 6-00788R000900520001-6 Now I got that one. Call this X. I got XK two ways. A light-colored shape and framework. And Y. PAUSE As another canopy or beak of big bird. . . Note: X and Y were before target. PAUSE That's enough. Okay. Now, rather than trying to improve your drawings, I thought you could try to do something a little different that we talked about earlier. Again, rather than working on your drawings and trying to improve the drawings, I'd like you to see if you can't take a look at . . one of these areas again. Okay. Not in attempt to improve your drawings, but an intent to gather more information about the area. Okay? Yeah. Ah. . this is something that I'd. . I should have (not audible) when I was doing it. But I went back and looked at the area of . Number Five again when I was making the drawing. But, ah. But, you know, see if you can't relax again. and. Well, I want to pick one of the areas about which : I haven't worked quite so hard and see if I can get back to that area. I. . . I am interested, of course, froma... an information point of view, if you could focus on what he was holding in his hands. When you saw something holding in his hands. I'm interested in focusing on that or perhaps when you . . when you found yourself outside. Perhaps we could gather some more data and more around the outside of the area. Okay. I have already made a note as to the size, shape of the object that I thought he was holding. Okay. Good. IA-RDP96-00788R000900520001-6
Approved For Release #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: Approved For Release -RDP96-00788R000900520001-6 I had the feeling that it was a shoe. And lI would like to postulate that with about 45 question marks after it. But it felt to be the size and shape of that. . . It felt to be about the same weight as that. And I'm tempted to write down blue. Rather than chosing the object that he was holding in his hands, since he's no longer holding it in his hands at the time. No, he put it back down on the table. That's fine. And it's focused still sitting on a table. Um hm. Let's try for intelligence purposes to see if we can't come up with enough descriptive data of the area where he was so that we could then match that area. So, in doing that, would you like to try to go back to the outside of the area or to the in- side of the area? Um. Why don't you just relax and see what happens. PAUSE I think I would like to go back to either the outside of the area or to try and look for the object pictured in Number One. Which I also believe to have been at the outside of the area. Relax and concentrate and let me know when you have something. PAUSE All right. It is outside. Doggone it! I just had it. The object in Number One appeared in conjunction with the exterior of the place. But it was as if you had two transparencies of the two objects laying one on top of the other and I don't think that that's valid. PAUSE CIA-RDP96-00788R000900520001-6
Approved For Releasé #66: #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: #66: #44: #@1A-RDP96-00788R000900520001-6 Talk to me about your. I'm trying to find it #66, just give me a minute. Okay. I don't mean to be critical, but it just. . It seems to always happen. When I get a... finally find the thing, wherever it is, and start to solidify the thing, you ask me a question. And, I think I've got it. PAUSE Okay, it feels up. As if its maybe eight, nine feet off the ground. It does not feel metallic. I keep getting light blue. Um. . feels like its outside. That ..a.. . it has a pretty good Size to it. Concrete maybe. And how it would get to be blue, I don't know. And I drew the support in the wrong place. The support, the support needs to be more underneath of it. Okay, I'm standing there next to it. . next to the support looking up at the thing. But it seems as if the building is over that way. Ahead and to the left and then tailing off in the front. . . of this shape. And, I get the feeling of windows. Its not the first time I had the feeling of windows either. It may be that this object is back from and outside of. . the area of the . . buildings. PAUSE I wanted to remind you to relate your true sensory input. Not just. What the hell does that mean? I mean what's your emotional input about the area? Oh. It feels like a shop. Business. Talk to you. Um. . . Now, this, I just don't feel good about. I wish I understood that shape. Its deeper than that. I don't know. Really! Annotation: The "really'' was because #66's stomach was giving him a hard time. PAUSE 10 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000900520001-6