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the rock formation
first.
I
think.
And on
the
up valley side of the rock formation,
you'll
see
this white flash.
But you have
to go up the
valley.
If you go across
the ridges
it wili be
hidden in the up valley trees.
.
.
in the up
slope trees
and it'll never. been
seen.
And
if
you go down the ridges across ridge,
you'll
never see it either because its ...
on the up
slope side of the
tree
that
its hanging
in.
So
you would pass over
it before you saw
it.
You
have
to
go up the valley.
And you have
to be on
the South side of
the valley.
Because
if you're
even on the North side of the valley going up
it,
it hangs
in the tree looking away from that
side.
You can only see
it from the South
side.
#66:
Very good.
PAUSE
#31:
One
is there.
The other one
isn't there;
he's
somewhere else.
PAUSE
#31:
PAUSE
I have
.
.
.
PAUSE
But he's not in
.
.
I
don't want to say that
-
near the
airplane.
He's somewhere else.
#66:
How did he get somewhere else?
#31:
I can only say that he
.
.
got out
.
.
first.
PAUSE
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STAT
#66
:
#31:
# 66
:
#31:
# 66
:
#31:
# 66
:
#31:
# 66
:
#31:
# 66
:
PAUSE
(CRYING)
Talk about your perceptions.
Talk about your
perceptions.
PAUSE
(Long sigh.)
Take deep breaths.
PAUSE
Ah,
PAUSE
That's right,
big deep breaths.
PAUSE
STAT
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**
#31:
STAT
#66:
•
That's
fine.
You are working very hard on this
target.
That's
to be expected.
That's
fine.
#31:
I hope
its
some
good.
PAUSE
#66:
There
is nothing that you have said that can
be disputed based on what
I know about the
incident.
STAT
STAT
#31:
PAUSE
PAUSE
#31:
But that's
sort of an open area;
there's no
.
.
.
there may be trees nearby but this bolder
should be visible from the
.
.
from the
sky.
PAUSE
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It was
just
a wreck
is
all
I
got.
I can't
figure out.
.
.
its mostly hidden by the trees.
Its
like
the damn thing hit this big flat top
rock and skidded up and under
the trees and God
knows why
it didn't flash off and burn but it
didn't that much.
PAUSE
That's
all
I
can get at this
time.
#66:
That's
just fine.
Can you draw me
a little bit
now with your situation?
#31:
Yeah.
PAUSE
#66:
Would you like any more light?
#31:
Yeah,
better have some
light.
PAUSE
I'll go images,
all right?
#66:
Okay.
We're about to the end of this tape so
I'm going
to go ahead and turn it over now.
PAUSE
#31:
All right.
.
.
.
The first image
I had was of
this irregular inverted
"V".
A white
slash,
"V"
shape slash against
a
.
.
the side of
a
ridge.
You know,
in this
sketch,
I've drawn
a rock fall.
Or something that looked
like
an
irregular
"V"
shape thing along the ridge line
with trees around,
green trees,
heavy
.
.
heavy
foilage around
it.
All right ...
The next image
I had was of being inside and
under the side and up
.
.in the
side of the ridge
line and
I had this
image of standing on pine
needle
carpet.
Standing on pine needle,
soft and cool carpet.
PAUSE
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With
a big pine tree right in front of me.
And its almost like
.
.
.
its almost like
.
.
damn near
like
a cultured forest because there's
not
a whole bunch of
scrub.
Its either an old
section of forest or
a cultured forest,
a con-
trolled forest because there's not
a whole bunch
of underbrush because
the.
.
.
the canopy
.
.
.
double canopy or single,
well would be single
canopy,
is
so thick that it blocks out all of
the.
.
a
lot of the
sunlight from underneath.
And
.
.
.
PAUSE
And these trees are
in there everywhere.
And
its cool and dark.
And its
.
.
This
is on the
North
slope of the hill.
And they're everywhere.
PAUSE
But they're high
up.
What
I mean
is
like
.
.
.
the man
.
.
you can almost
.
.
can nearly walk
in under them without banging his head on the
limbs
.
STAT
PAUSE
Pine needle carpet
is an over dominant feeling
here.
I wanted to say it was almost exclusively
pine but
I don't want to say that.
It could be
desiduous
as well.
Its
at least cool and dark
and
its
at least
a stand up overhead,
almost.
And its on this
semi
.
.
.
semi-steep North slope
of this
thing.
PAUSE
I talked about
two on the tape before
I went
back to one on the rockfall.
Three
is
a first
impression.
.
of one of
the
two.
I got that very
STAT
early.
Then
I
tried.
.
PAUSE
I'm working back at two,
the view across.
.
it
seems that the view across and out from this
.
.
this
is
a slope here.
Okay.
It seems
as
though looking out drifting above the trees,
the
’’W
view
is one of ....
of
that.
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To
a double bunked ridge;
one higher than the
other
PAUSE
All heavily.
.
all equally forested.
Covered.
All over.
PAUSE
All right?
#66;
Um hm.
PAUSE
#31:
Everywhere
is
trees.
The whole thing is trees.
And that down here
in the foreground,
I didn't
want to say there's
a creek or anything down
there
PAUSE
In the valley.
I didn't.
.
.1 didn't get that.
I didn't want to say that because you usually
find creeks
in valleys and this might be one
without one.
PAUSE
This
is looking
.
.
to,
as
I
call
it, merely
the Northeast.
Its
a single ridge though.
These
two things
are connected.
They're not two
different hills,
they're connected.
But its
trees
all the way down into the valley.
Okay
PAUSE
Looking
to
.
.
Northwest,
I have again
in the
distance,
this bump and we have
in the distance
this bigger bump or
in
the foreground the bigger
bump .
Okay
PAUSE
And here
- how do
I describe this?
Here
.
.
and then
it takes
a turn around and that view
is blocked by something.
But this
is
.
.
the
ridge
line
shape,
it curves.
Okay.
PAUSE
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I'll call
it the South ridge and this
the North
ridge.
The perspective's
a little bit off.
Its
not really right.
Let me change
it.
This will
be misleading on
a map trace.
Here
is
.
.
the first hump and here
is
the
second hump of the ridge,
like
this.
Okay.
Its more
linear.
They're both going together
but one curves around the other one
like
that.
PAUSE
Its really not that steep either.
More gentle
sloping,
like
that.
Okay.
PAUSE
I want to say South ridge curves to
.
.
the North.
PAUSE
Okay,
now somewhere along the South ridge
.
.
.
I'll just stick with the images.
If
I had to draw this sucker from
a easy contour
map,
contour type situation
.
.
.
#66:
I'm going to have you look at the map in
a few
minutes
.
#31:
Okay.
Well,
.
.
.
And these
.
.
This contour
line
(not audible)
like this.
Okay.
And then here,
this being the bigger peak would
have several more
- or not peak but the higher
bump on the ridge
- would be
like
this.
This
one,
though,
is
.
.
like
that.
That's what I'm
trying to get down
to.
And then
it goes
like
that,
okay.
This
line
is pretty gentle.
Like
this.
I have
to reflect
a slope here.
All right
and this one
is
a little bit steeper.
Like that.
Okay.
#66:
Now where
is
the target?
#31:
The target
is on this here.
All right.
Its on
.
.
Its
in
.
.
I want to
say,
its back up here
from this perspective and its somewhere
in here.
Okay
.
#66:
Okay.
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# 31
:
# 66 :
# 31 :
#66
#31
#66
#31
# 66
:
# 31 :
# 66
:
# 31 :
# 66
:
# 31
:
# 66
:
# 31 :
Possibly farther.
Its not way
.
.
Its
up on
the hillside.
But that’s
.
.that's misleading
'cause that shows
that
its farther down.
Its
not,
its up here.
Give me
a North/South arrow on the
.
.
map.
North
is
this way.
PAUSE
La
la
la
la.
Okay.
Okay.
And what I'm saying bout this thing
is
.
.
.
Which way to Lynchburg?
This way.
This
is the feeling
I had.
I hate
doing this kind of thing,
but the feeling
I had
was that Lynchburg was down this sloping thing.
Okay.
Write:
"to Lynchburg".
And that over here
is another valley.
Okay.
PAUSE
And that like here
is where that cabin
is.
All right,
where's
the rock slide?
Okay.
The rock slide
is
.
.
rock slide and/or
this funny rock,
that
I was telling you about,
is
in here.
What's
the number of
this page
so we know what
we're talking about?
All right,
four,
five,
six.
Page
Six,
Drawing Six,
okay.
Okay.
Somewhere.
.
this brings me
to
a
.
.
some interesting thing.
I'll
say rock slide,
or
.
.
and let me draw you this other
shape.
Is
like
.
.
.
Okay.
Its like
that.
PAUSE
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Okay.
PAUSE
You see what
I mean but
a funny shape rock?
#66:
Um hm
.
#31:
Its
like
a
.
.
its
like
a
.
.
Its big.
I mean
its
.
.
forty-five feet tall.
That type of big.
Okay.
And its gray and its
got all the weather
marks,
you know,
its very,
very irregular.
Its
not nearly as irregular as
this makes it look
to
be,
but
its
.
.
.
#66:
Um hm
.
#31:
(Not audible)
beehive or something that's poked
into the
side of the hill.
#66:
Um hm
.
#31:
If that and that and the rock slide are together
or like
if the rock slide
is tucked
in the corner
of this
thing,
I have no
.
.
I don't know.
I
can't tell.
First
I had this rock slide.
This
could be manufactured.
It sort of came out of
nowhere
to me.
I wasn't puzzling over the rock
slide.
I got this
.
.
.
#66:
Um hm
.
#31:
That's
seven.
And that
is also on the South
ridge.
Okay.
#66:
Well,
I don't understand what you mean.
#31:
This being North ridge.
.
.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
This being the South ridge.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
Okay.
So
its also
in here
in the area of the
rock slide on Number
Six.
#66:
Okay.
PAUSE
#31:
And of course,
this
is
,
all trees here.
All
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right.
All
up and down and around
it.
All right.
PAUSE
#66:
Okay,
is
there anything else that you feel you'd
like
to draw before going to
look at the map?
#31:
Yeah,
well,
I'm trying
to think of where it fits
.
.
.
and
if
I
said it or not
so
I can reference
the
tape,
but
I don't think
I
said
it.
I want
to say that
at the Southern end of this crack
here between the two ridges that there
is
a
.
.
I'll give
this one
a plus or minus.
Okay.
PAUSE
Okay.
There's that and there's that.
All right.
#66:
We're moving
a little bit East?
#31:
A little bit East,
yeah.
And that this
in turn
is
split.
Okay.
Like the valley makes
a fork
on the East side of that,
like there's
a hill.
There's
a hill or something there that splits
that terrain feature.
Or it splits that valley.
Its not a big valley.
Its not something huge.
Its
like typically you'd find
in the Shenandoahs
where you've only got.
.
total ridge height
is
maybe
800,
900
feet and the valley floor
is
,
you
know,
it just comes down into
a knotch.
You know,
it doesn't come down into some big sweeping tidal
plain or anything like that.
It comes down into
a pretty well defined knotch.
And you know,
maybe
a couple hundred yards across.
And even
bumpy then,
you know.
Slowly knotching together.
Not.
.
Not some really huge
cleft.
#66:
Okay.
At this time
I'd like
to take you in and
look at the map while you still have the target
on your mind and we'll tape record that so that
you can continue
to talk and I'll allow you to look
at the map
.
#31:
I want to say that,
the
sec.
.
.
the guy
.
.
.
that
is not at the aircraft crash site,
is
some-
where East
.
.
.
East of the crash site and on
the other
side,
like over here on the North side
of this valley or maybe on the North side of this
terrain feature.
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down in and under the
.
.
.
#66:
I understand.
Its dangling from the upper part
rather than laying flat across.
#31:
Sure.
But
it can be
seen.
But it can be seen
if flying.
.
.
if aircraft.
.
if looked down at
from the top
of the ridge,
the South ridge.
.
going
in
a Northerly direction,
because you can tell
its
hanging on the North
.
.
on the South side
of the
tree
.
Okay
.
#66:
All right.
#31:
So if you flew up the North side
it would be
masked by the tree
its hanging
in.
#66:
All right.
#31:
And if you flew down.
.
the South ridge
it would
be masked by the trees that are up hill of
it.
Because
its hanging down here.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
So,
the only way to see
it
is
to
go perpendicular
across
the valley.
#66:
Okay.
Flying from
.
.
.
#31:
Flying from South to North across this valley.
#66:
Flying South to North there
is
an object hanging
in the tree on the South side of the
tree.
#31:
Right.
#66:
Down the ridge.
#31:
Right.
PAUSE
On the up
side of
the ridge.
#66:
On the
up
side of the ridge.
#31:
On the up ridge
side.
#66:
Okay,
going back
to this picture,
I
fly
.
.
•
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