Approved For Release 2000/01
#01:
Feel like my body's moving around.
#66:
What is your portion of observation?
88R0001 001 20001 -8
#01:
Uh..I’m on the,
on the conning tower of the third submarine...
and I’m kinda laying.. on my left
side.
#66:
All right.
Now,
stand down on the foredeck of the submarine
where the hatch is.
#01:
Which hatch?
The little one or the big one.
#66:
The big one.
#01:
Okay.
#66:
Now,
from the submarine look up.
What is above you?
#01:.
Rows of lights.
Two kinds of lights.
I feel... I feel like
..a.. one light and a flight type.
Feel heat from one of the
#66:
And further up
#01:
Uh... girders... construction girders.
#66:
Move up the girders.
Now looking back down describe the area
from that perspective.
PAUSE
#01:
Uh...(not audible)
looking down on. . .three big bays there’s
a..
#66:
How high are you?
#01:
Maybe 100 feet... no not that high... 55 or 60 feet.
#66:
Are you on the inside or outside?
#01:
I’m inside.
#66:
All right.
Fine.
Tell me about the three big bays.
#01:
There’s four submarines in the two right bays and there’s none
in the left bay.
#66:
All right.
What’s to the front of the submarines?
#01:
Platform.
Approved For Release 2000A
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Approved For Release 2000/0
#66:
What’s to the rear of the submarines?
#01:
A wall.
A wall and some doors.
#66:
How do
I get the submarines out of here?
#01:
You open the wall.
+50
#66:
All right.
Pine.
This concludes the amount of questions that
I have about this target.
This time I’d like to give you the
opportunity to say anything that you would like to say about
this target.
PAUSE
#01:
I’m. .I’m having a lot of difficulty with the end of the
building.
I.. a.. look,
look for the submarines on the end of
the building,
and I see the building,
and no submarines,
and
I.. look, look at the submarines. .and,
I look up and I see...
uffimm.... a different building from the inside and I know that
that wall is the..uh..wall of the building.
#66:
All right.
Fine.
I think you’ve done very well.
I want you not
to be too concerned now about your confusion.
This is why
we moved you ahead in time because we believe this area W> be
in a state of flux,
right now, under construction and changing.
That’s why we moved you ahead in time to when it might be
completed or when we might have a more firm situation.
So,
I
don't want you to be concerned about your confusion.
#01:
Uh...#07 asked me about a square that I drew on my last drawing,
and. .uh. .
.
#66:
Outside the building area?
#01:
Yes.
#66:
All right,
and if you’d like to explore that at this time,
you may do that.
#01:
There is
a. ..it’s some kind of a nav-aid.
The square’s a...
a electronics and a little building in it.
Some kind of a
nav-aid.
It . .a. .they. . .direct shipping or something there.
Some kind of a navigational aid to that port.
That's what the
building is.
Appears to be old,
though,
for some reason or
another.
Maybe it's a little out of state—of—the—art. .
.
or something old fashioned
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:°r.sr«ws°,
I think.
I thought it was a box, but it’s a little bualdxng.
#66:
All right.
Are you looking at that... at that little building
now or are you looking at it in 1 January I960?
#01:
I'm looking at it now.
#66:
All right.
#01:
That’s what it is.
PAUSE
#01:
That’s all I got.
#66:
All light.
Move your arms and move your legs and take a
deep breath and sit up and draw.
PAUSE
#66:
How do you feel?
#01:
For some reason, today my arms are going to sleep.
It’s like I,
I can’t even feel the pencil with
’em
.There
s a
....I guess page l...what I’ll do is let’s just
see what I can
draw about the bays and the way it, it looked
There
s
_a
....there’s a catwalk type thing down the left side wall,
and
there's a platform that comes out from this wall.
Goes all the
way across,
like this,
and you have to imagine this wall
being here.
Then, there’s another one over here that comes out;
then there' s. .uh. .two more catwalks going like this.
Of course,
these are..uh.. all these catwalks things are very long and...
this distance in here is very large... and these go down to the
water.
That’s
a wall over here.
Down here on the end there’s
another wall of some
sort,
and over here there's. .uh.. that’s
tunnel type entrances and this is the one that I was in.
I get
the feeling goes into the building for some reason.
There's
another one,
and there’ s. .those track-like things come out of
here and go in different directions.
And, there’s water down
here.
#66:
Write the word water
#11:
Yeah.
#66:
Now,
those are three bays,
right?
#01:
Yeah.
#66:
Yet there is four submarines.
#01:
Oh, yeah.
There’ s. .uh. .page
2 looking down from the top there's
..uh..that's the wall of the building.
#66:
The long wall.
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and that's the sea ^^f
>|HB^py|iii^^there * s . .uh. .two side walls
i
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App^ved For Release 2000/08. .
.
. . .winch are darker.
And, down the
There’s a platform at the end.
Two more
tunnel
-ways or ramp ways,
-D0788R0001 QQ1 20001,8
sidewalls are the catwalks,
catwalks . . .this . . . and
I guess.. .through
the wall,
and the submarines are apart like this.
There’s
nothing in this one.
They’re all pointed this way,
and those
first in the bay. .. .they’re working on this one
and there’s
something different about this one.
It’s an older one.
I
don’t know how to explain that.
I just sense that it’s an older
sub.... and there’s a lot less water in this, in these bays
in January I960 which is this....than there is in the bays here.
#66:
Okay.
You never saw the bays in present time.
I never was able
to develop you to
see the bays in the present time.
It was only
after I sent you to 1980 you saw the bays.
#01:
Yeah.
I..well,
okay.
That’s probably analysis on my part.
But,
I’ll tell you that in 1980 January there’s less water there for
some reason.
#66:
That’s fine.
The water then you perceived when you were
(not audible).
#01:
I don't..... any other time, yeah,
any other time. .... .and. .uh.
.
sails on the
submarine.
I don't. .first . .uh.
.
the back deck comes
ouk^of^^Jjg^^^
this.
This is like. .uh.. let's call this
water here;
there's like
a rise, thick rise in the
sail.
There * s
a sail,
and it’s shorter than our submarines.
The front deck
goes out like this and drops way in the water.
And the submarine
is actually much larger,
and here, it’s like rectangle on down
the side of the numbers.
On the
sail. . .there's nothing at all
that I could see protruding up above the sail on the sub...but
this area back here is where all the plating was opened up and
they were... they were working here.
There’s like tubes canted
this wav.
Those are tubes.
Yeah... and, there's a very large
hatch up front.
There's
a very small hatch here.
There's no
other markings on the submarine.
Very strange.
And,
I don’t
see any apparent ornament of any sort.
I can't think of anything
else.
#66:
Okay.
Can you explain a little bit about your feeling of
nuclear?
#01:
I was trying to decide whether or not they were nuclear
powered or nuclear armed.
And, for some reason,
I kept thinking
powered, nuclear powered.
But
I, you know,
I get,
I get confused
when I start trying to detail nuclear anything, but,
I just know
that there's something nuclear about
'em.
I think it’s probably
powered.
Some reason I couldn't
say armed.
Couldn’t say armed
for some reason.
I don’t understand why, but I just couldn't
do that.
As they’re sitting in those bays, they're just nuclear
powered.
Let's put it that way.
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#66:
Okay.
You did make
a comment that the tubes were empty.
#01:
Yes.
These tubes were. .uh. .you know. .they're just like some
kind of tube and they're sticking up out of this, these very
complex type thing down here.
They're
side-by-side,
couple
of
’em are sticking up further than a couple of the others.
Some hadn't been touched at all,
and they, they were extracting
'em this way.
And, the ones they were putting in, they were
doing some kind of modification down in here,
and they were, they
were just putting in. ..it seemed like they were opening
'em
larger, you know, making
'em larger,
and there was kind of a
design difference on the tube for some reason.
#66:
What about these tubes that were different?
#01:
Oh!
That...in the row of ten or twelve it may be that there’s
10 that look alike;
12 that don't.
Back here there are two small
tubes.
And, they're real small and they're a...they 're straight
up and down and they're very short. ..and I'm not. ..these are
different, you know.
I don't know what those are.
They're
different.
You know, they’re entirely different from the big
ones.
But,
I*.I get
a strong feeling that functionally they're
very different as well.
They're there for something.........
but,
I don't know what it is
cannoling like this.
You know,
I get a feeling almost in these that the cant in these
tubes might bethe wav they have to be now
but nol the wav they
had to be before, vou know.
Like that might be part of modifi-
cation.
#66:
The fact that they're
slanted now might be
#01:
Yeah. . .and. . .I'm not looking at any other part of the submarine
and they could very well be even. . .you know. . . some other severe
modifications to it somewhere, you know.
Like
a. .. .double the
width or something.
I don’t know.
But,
I almost get a sensation
like
this section of the submarine in its entirety is
being modified or changed. . .that
I put in brackets here.
It’s
like that whole thing.... I mean superstructure and all has been
changed.
But,
that might be wrong.
That might be analytic.
T just get that feeling.
#66:
Okay.
Now,
I have
a question I wanted to ask you before.
that even this morning the question came up..... something about
short submarines and long submarines,
and then this afternoon
you seemed to
be' concerned about short submarines and long
submarines.
Will you kind of think about that for a minute?
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