Approved For Release 2000/08/07
:
96-00788R000400520001 -1
+31
+35
#10.5:
#66 :
#10.5:
#66 :
#10.5:
#66 :
#10.5:
#66 :
#10.5:
It's just like
a bubble within,
ah,
just like
a bubble inside
a cigar.
This thing
is looking
more
like it's three and
a half feet or
so
in diameter,
now,
because when
I
got my hand
on the trough,
I
like put one hand
on one side,
and had to lean
way across
to touch the
other side.
Like
I was picking it up.
So,
it more... that was before,
it's more like three and a half
feet
....Other than that,
I
don't know.
It's
very complex.
Okay.
Darn,
they're
so many variances
of separate things
to talk
about.
What
I want you to do is remember everything that you've seen
so you can draw it for me.
You
don' t have to talk about
it
now.
I want you now
to. .. .determine what relationship this
has for the device you've seen previously.
Search
to see
whether this is the device
or somewhere
in the building is
the device you saw previously.
PAUSE
Umm.
No,
it's not.
My device
is some place
now,
I don't
know
if I'm upside down or what.
No,
I
see my device.
I
felt
it was
on some sort
of conveyor, but there's rollers
on
the
top of
it.
I
can't figure this
out.
I
don't know what
I
m
doing
or where
I
am.
I
got this idea
...ah,
overhead rollers
instead
of underneath rollers,
and then
I had this feeling
of
this bomb thing sandwiched between two layers of rollers,
and
being moved
processed,
not moved, processed somehow....
Like
it was being degoused
or something.
You know, Electric,
and
it was being moved by.... itself through or along some certain
path,, r;.. up overhead
like,
inside, you
know, where it was subj—
subjected to being
you
know,
ah,
done,
or whatever it is
done.
'cause
I
feel
it
in somewhere else
in the building here.
Describe your device as
it appears to you now,
Urn
1 d .
. mmm ....I'm looking at
a finished thing here.
Describe it to me as it appears.
Umm... ah,
just
a metal skin all the way
around, rounded nose
#66:
Dimensions.
#10
5:
Umm.... about... three and
a half,
four feet by about. ...where
*"*
am
I
ah,
oh,
eight feet,
and then there's this ending
that's
a been put on it... this blocks
like
a,
ah,
thin appara
or something that's
on
the end
of
it.
It's
a drag apparatus
of some kind.
And,
I want to say that's about another,
umm
fum and
a half feet.
PAUSE
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#66 !
#10 . 5 ;
#66 ;
# 10 . 5 ;
#66 ;
#10 . 5
:
Using cutaway methodology describe
the interior.
PAUSE
Okay.
I'm
some reason this one,
urn
ah,
urn,
there
it
is,
okay,
urn,.
In this one there seems to
be.
differences,
but the only differences
I
can tell are
like an
organization. ..... .in that. .....this tube just has this....
globe
idea,
sphere
idea,
but
it seems to be... set back more
towards the middle and it doesn't seem to.... be in touch with
anything right from the nose. .... .in direct touch.
It doesn't
seem to have
it's
like there are basic differences
in the
mechanism.
Like this one's for
a certain type
of
test,
and
I'll try this one out,
and knowing it's going downstairs
it
they're going
to,
ah,
use
a different methodology
on
different design.
I'm trying to get
a hold of this one
enough
to say something about
it
PAUSE
The thing that is missing to me
is that very elaborate
disk cone,
layered disks,
and piston thing.
That is not....
I'm not pickin'
it up here
and the ball is set back
farther from the nose than in that other one.
And,
between
the ball and the nose is essentially.... what.... can't really
tell.
I'm,
ummm,
another,
I
see this hump,
this jumble of
clutter.
I can't really tell what's in the distance.
It's
like set back an extra two feet.....
Okay.
Um,
you've been at this quite
a while now,
so
I want
you to remember clearly
the differences between what you've
seen
of these two objects,
and prepare now to draw those
images that you've had.
Okay.
Okay.
Now,
during the session here,
you seem to go to the
assembly building,
and you seemed
to have stumbled acrossed
a device which you've perceived
to be different than the
one you saw beforehand,
ah, .....I'd like you
to explain,
sketch now
of this device that you feel is different than the
device you saw before,
and how you
came about this in kind 'a
your own words.
How you came across this in the building.
Um,
okay.
Where
I believe
I was
in the building was
in the
left hand,
what
I will refer to
as being the
left hand,
ah,
circular portion
of the building which
is in underground,
you
know.
It's sunken in the ground.
The work floor
is down
about 20 feet below ground level.
I went zooming
in there,
and
I
saw again an open trough type
of area thing raised
up
waist high.
It was essentially empty.
This trough was about,
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...at first
I
thought it was about two and
a half feet
in
diameter or so,
but when
I
got up
to it,
and started working
on
it,
it seemed like it was more three and
a half to four
feet
in diameter,
and about eight feet long.
Now,
I
didn't,
you know,
ah,
the reason we end up with this
feeling that this one
is different than the one
I
had worked
on
in
an earlier session
or
two,
the reason we have that feeling
is because
late
in the session when you had me,
you
know,
you
asked me,
and
I
said,
no,
it doesn't seem like it's the same
one.
You
said,
go find the other one,
and bam very spontaneously
I was looking at
a completed all
firielly tuned,
and finelly
fabricated bomb
on this rack
in sketch four.
So,
that makes
me think that what
I
got into was the.... that area is
like where
they begin to put assembling,
assembly parts together.
They
have
to bring the sheet metal
in,
and the,
the skin and they
start fitting the pieces to it.
And, what we've got is were
straddling production
of
two different weapons.
One that's on its
way out the door and ready for test,
which is the
one that
I
had worked earlier,
and then this one which
is just coming the
door
in pieces,
and
is going to be put together.
#66:
Okay.
I understand.
#10.5:
That's the difference
in the
two.
Now,
difference
in physical
structure,
I'll go into as well.
#66:
Okay.
But,
before we go into that,
let's turn the tape over.
I
can see that we're almost out,
huh.
(ADMIN NOTE:
Tape turned over)
#10.5:
Okay.
#66:
Now,
at this point
then,
you had this trough type thing,
and
felt that it was not yet assembled,
and
I
asked that in your
mind you see
it assembled,
and then tell me what went
on.
Now,
I
imagine the result
of
it,
then,
is sketch
one.
#10.5:
Yes.
The results
of that is sketch one.
It's
a progressive
assembly
of the bomb.
The major bomb parts.
Urn... I 'll take
sketch one from left to right.
The
nose,
inside the nose
of
the bomb
or
a nose cone
of
the bomb
is this multi-layered cone
shape
of revolving black metal disks,
and these things revolve
in,
and revolve against each other.
They counter-pose each other
I guess*
and
I
had this feeling of sandwiching of progressively
smaller sandwiches,
as we go towards the front.
This thing
is somehow connected
and,
and turns
a brass or
copper metal,
heavy,
you know,
strong metal rod which is
about,
oh,
I
forgot
to put that in there.
That's about two
inches in diameter
you
know,
that's about three
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Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000400520001-1
SEGRgp
#10.5:
....three and
a half,
four inches in diameter
okay.
On the end
of this rod the opposite end
of this rod
are four heavy cut metal rectangular fins,
that protrude
from the rod at ninety degree angles.
You
know.
Perpendicular
angles
to this axis
of the rod,
and this end of the rod is
located
in the sphere.
And,
when
I went in
to look at what's
on the end of these things,
these fins that
I was gettin'
a
feeling for,
I ended up in
a space,
which was about this
area of the inside volume of
like
a volley ball or
a basket
ball,
not even
a basket ball.
It's too big.
A volley ball
or
a socker ball or something like
that.
Very,
very
tight
in space,
and it's a void.
That's all it is inside there.
Inside this
void
is
the thin mechanisms
on
the end of the rod
and there are like four protruding bus bars that stick down
into the
void,
and the fins are off-set
in a clockwise
direction from these four matching bus bars,
and when
the,
I
don't know,
when the disks up front make
the,
make the axle
revolve counter-clockwise,
which makes the fins revolve counter-
clockwise,
they
only revolve an inch counter-clockwise,
and
at that point the fins match up with the bus bars.
Like this.
They go.... you
know,
they match up so that they're exact
straight
lines,
and they either contact it or they establish
some sort
of electrical field or magnetic field
or they
complete some sort of
a circuit.
They lock into place,
and
that's their function.
I don't know what happens after
that.
That's their function.
They click together so that these
off-set bus bars are now connected to them,
splush (phonetic)
face-on-face,
uh,
and that those bus bars are made of the
same type metal.
It seemed like they were
like bro- brass or
bronze,
highly polished yellowish,
ah, orange-yellowish type,
a light orange type
of material.
No,
I'm sorry.
A gold
type
of material.
A gold
type.
Like burnished,
ah,
brass would
be,
Okay.
Yeah,
brass.
Like burnish brass would
be
in color.
Okay,
now,
on these,
now these bus,
four bus bars stick down
inside
the
void.
The thing that actually would
be about where
the skin of the volley ball is on the void is like these
square facings
of what are the interior ends of square cone,
squared off cone shapes or,
ah,
flat
top pyramids shapes.
The
flat top
of the pyramid being
the flat part that faces the
inside
of the void that
I was looking at inside,
and then....
the four sides of the pyramid gettin'
bigger,
farther and farther
apart as they
go farther away from me,
and then
the base
of
the pyramid being out somewhere out where the,
ah,
exterior
skin of this goodie
is.
And,
those are all over,
you know,
I'm
inside of
a spherical
void,
and these. ... .flat metal facings,
the
flat tops
of these metal,
of
metal type gray metal pyramids
faced me all over the compass,
okay,
360 degrees,
790 degrees.
However you describe the degrees inside
a sphere.
They were
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