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INTERVIEW
This will be
a CENTER LANE interview with source #08.
The time
is 0900 hours.
The date
is
13 January
1983.
Focus your attention now on the interior of the building m the
photograph
I've shown you and describe
it to me,
on
13 January
1983.
PAUSE
gg .
I
see
a huge space
in the center of the building with
high
and
wide
stairwells .. .There
' s a sense
of
a barracks atmosphere
with soldiers
in
white spats.
These are their uniforms.
66:
On what floor do you have this room?
08:
The other uniforms are like old World War
II
uniform,
brown.
....I
sense that this place.
. .houses
a.
. .specific. .. .military unit..
... .That
has.
; to do with
either ... .where there! s,.a combination
of !!. safekeeping duties of
security duties such as dispersal
of crowds.
66:
What
is
the impression you have that makes you state this
conclusion ?
08:
I
just find
that
it’s like
a headquarters
in readiness to act in
the various functions,
impression
is that
of
(mumble)
It s
a very
ah.. it’s
a very old spartan place,
white walls,
no curtains,
it
s
like
..an old kasserne
in the middle
of.. an area that
is at the
wrong place within,
within
an
area.
66;
,
Focus now
in the center of the building
with the stairways to
the right and left
08:
66 :
08:
Yes.
Describe for me the physical characteristics
of the area of the
building.
Verv
lonq corridors
in the front of the building,where^here's
a
S&S2 SJW2 r
into
single rooms.
. .That’
s
in the upper area
(mumble)
If you vented to evplnre «*««« of the hnilriinn,
dearrihe them to me #
08:
The lower levels just below,
midlevel to go into for the leaders,
the offices.
66:
What
is
it that you perceive that makes you state this conclusions?
(mumble)
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08:
It's
just there.
There's an impression that this entire unit
is
; .placed!
under
the,
it's under the order of the ministry,
but
it
does not belong to the ministry.
It's got
a mission
of
security
to that ministry.
66:
Okay.
Now you have talked about upper and middle areas,
talk
about right and left
area.
08:
Okay,
the section
I've been
in
is the right area facing the street.
66:
All right.
Move into
a left area and describe
it to me.
08:
In the upper left area catches the overflow from the
right
area.
Below that
is
an area associated with
a plain- clothejs, apparatus
of the
unit,
but
it quieter,
more privilaged living conditions...
with the...
and there's
ah. .various set
of offices,
control offices..
66:
What
is
it that you perceive that makes you say control
.
i
offices?
08:
Rooms with police type impressions,
feelings.
66:
Okay.
Let's return now to the area
in the center of the building
t
(mumble)
the stairways go up
from that and confine yourself now to only the ground floor,
only
the ground floor.
08:
Yes.
66:
And tell me about to the
right and to the left.
08:
There's element
of
control,
military control,
military police control
guarding the. .guarding the access to... to the
right front which
is the military side as well,
left
front
is the
civilian
side.
There's
a control point like
a military police desk if you wish,
it
acts
as
a control point and part access to the various areas.
That's
it.
66:
All
right.
08:
There are more spacious
rooms for persons
in,
with higher, authority
more prestige are
on the first floor... On the civilian side there
spacious rooms as well,
but they
' re. .... .conference rooms,
tech
rooms,
technical oriented rooms,
but oriented towards police
work. .... .Into the rooms... is kept secluded and darker... I
don't
have anything else,
unless you
've got specific questions.
66:
That's fine.
Thank you very much.
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DRAWING EXPLANATION
08:
Okay,
in sketch #1
I tried to recapture the initial impression
of,
particularly the entrance
of the building,
which
is
what you're first confronted with.
And there is
a vast
open
space that extends several floors or levels
in height
but
did
not go all the way
to the top of the building,
perhaps five
or six levels and at that time the upper levels go over this
opening.
Must serve as as corridor
for the very top levels.
On both sides
of this space,
I
saw winding type stairways
which
is very difficult for me
to describe except that they were
on both on the right and the left side of the entry way.
In
the foreground was
a check point,
a control point with
a
telephone check point,
a relay station
or whatever you want to
call
it,
where people call offices to advise then that visitors
have arrived or to clear visitors going
in.
This was
in the
area that
I've called the ground level right front
portion as
you're facing the street from
inside of the building.
From
in the same right front building,
that we've agreed
on,
in
terms
of direction,
was
a flavor of military police and
security type activity which
I've described.
And
in the left
front portion
of the building seem to be
66:
—If I'm standing
on the street
08:
—Yes,
if you're standing
on
the. street,
my right becomes my
left,
what
I've noted here.
This
is from inside the building,
looking
out.
66:
Okay,
if
we were inside the building facing
out to the street?
08:
Yes,
yes,
where
the check point
is would be the right
side,
in
other words
I would have
to come
from the
rear
of the building,
step into the building and look
out,
that would
be my right.
66:
Okay.
08:
It's just
to define direction.
It's on the left
front
of the
building from inside looking
out,
which
is probably the illogical
way
of doing
it.
There was an impression there of civilian
plain
clothes.
People associated with the same type unit.
<
but
a bunch
of
gum- shoers
,
where there were various offices
and divisions
in the middle floors,
middle level floors,
middle levels,
and conference rooms and interrogation rooms
and an indication of tech
labs of police,
criminal tech labs
on the bottom floors.
Upper floors
in the left front
seem to
catch the overflow,
some overflow of the military side of
the establishment of the building.
66:
Okay.
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08:
Okay.
In sketch #2,
just
rew
a crude drawing,
overview,
two
dimensional drawing of how the building
is disposed and
there's
a predominance
of corridors
in the front portion
of
the building
and various rooms to the right and left.
The
size
of the rooms,
in terms
of what they
can accommodate,
I
have described
on the
tape,
top floors being military oriented
with dorm type rooms and other rooms,
housing four people and
then two people and perhaps one
person.
In the
lower
levels,
particularly
in the first level,
those became much larger rooms,
as
if the VIPs and military officer operating quarters were
.1
located there.
In the
left front on the bottom floor were
a
series of various conference rooms and other
rooms that
I’ve
previously described.
But they seem to be not
in use most
of
the time.
It was very dark and dreary in those areas.
The
middle portion of the left
front was very active with plain
clothesmen
in various degrees of activities related to their
police and security work.
66:
Okay,
did you mention
on tape
about perhaps some office areas?
Offices
as opposed to conference rooms?
08:
Yes,
this
is
in the ground floor on the right front
side.
66:
The ground floor right
front.
08:
Yes.
Spacious offices there
as
if
it were front.
66:
Okay,
now you said that this building was connected someway with
a ministry?
08:
Yes,
I was probing into the nature of the activity to get
an
impression of the the nature
of the activity and the mission
of the unit was.
And
it seemed to belong
to one ministry and
sublet
to another ministry to perform security and personnel
security type work.
It seemed out of place,
as
if
it had
been taken out
of army channels,
to be given
to another ministry
to perform these functions that could be,
I
don’t know what
it
could be.
But something that
does not pertain to them,
that you
would not normally associate that unit with,
labor
or strikes
or something that they're having
a problem with and this
is what
unit
is dedicated to
do..
That's
the best way
I
can describe
it.
Anything else?
66:
Did you say something about this particular section
in comparison
with the surrounding buildings and area?
08:
Yes,
it seem out place,
seemed out
of context,
as
if you putting
a military unit
into
a civilian environment.
It was,
the best
way
I
can describe that
is
if you took
a military unit
out
of
kaserne
(sp)
and placed into another
area,
it would stand out
as
a military unit
in
a civilian environment,
that's the best
analogy
I
can come up with.
But
it seemed out of place
for the area that
it was
in,
geographically
and physically.