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#28
Move
up
to
a higher altitude and describe the
surrounding area.
PAUSE
#32
Trees.
Very isolated like hilly .. .hilly
area,
but^mild
hiXly area not
a,
not
a heavy mountainous area.
Very
isolated.
I keep getting impression
of railroad tracks
on
the left someplace.
#28
Ok.
Move
up even higher now,
even higher and look
down.
PAUSE
#32
Ok.
This
is pretty dam high.
There seems to be
a body
of water to the southeast of
it.
This is very
odd.
And.. uh.. isolated little islands south
of
it in
a
finger
of land directly east of
far
(phonetic)
south
(voice faded)
PAUSE
Ok.
Between the body
of water and that site there seemed
to be
a hilly area
almost dense trees and then sort
of... trees become coarse.
. .trees become less dense.
That'
that's all.
#28
What type
of trees?
#32
Fir.
All kinds but alot
of fir.
It's hard
to tell.
#28
All
right.
I have no further questions about this
target at this time.
If there
is anything you would like
to add,
please do so now.
PAUSE
#32
No.
No.
Nothing.
#28
All right.
Let's draw the impressions that you've had.
#32
The very first impression
I had was..uh..
a huge
rectangular
area.
Then
I
got parallel lines.
Not tha
many,
but.. sort
of
a principal line goine up and down.
I'm going to draw it just as
it came.
. .like. .a. .something
like this.
I'll make
a double
line
...they
look like
roads... the other
line.
. .sandy, hard clay
roads.
Then
I
qot the impression
of lines going across this
way,
here,
and this way here.
And,
this didn't make sense because
around here there were
4 huge circles which
I
later
^
described as being bunkers.
(Mumbling)
eliminate
that,
I
guess,
something like that.
These,
for some reason,
seemed
to be interconnected.
And,
it gave you the
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impression
of clover
leaf.
That's what
it
u/as.
Then
it
u/as
at that point,
after
I
got these impressions
of the lines,
what-have-you,
a single,
singular
impression
...had the impression
of
a
u/edge
u/hich
looked like
a roof.
Something like
this.
The thing that struck me here was the building was not
that high but was very,
very thick and what
I
saw was
something like slits
in here... very heavy cement walls
both front and on the
sid
on the back and from that
you directed me
to
one
of these things.
#28
I
said explore
the bunker type things.
#32
Yeah.
. .circular bunker type things. .. .and what
I
saw in there,
and before
I
draw
it,
let me describe
it.
It was. .uh. .these were about
or
3 feet above ground,
but they were
very,
very deep below ground.
Very,
very clean.
Very modern and
I
got... this is where
I
got the impression.
. .this electronic
gear.
#28
Were you surprised
to find that when you went inside?
#32
Yeah.
Very,
very.
What was more surprising yet,
is
that this thing,
I was in only
in this one... this is
the only
one
I
was
in... that
this led to..uh..an
underground,
huge tunnel... if you've seen any
of the
old World War
II
submarine pens built by
the Germans
that's exactly
the impression
I
got... it was very,
very huge.
. .except,
and
very,
very
thick.
. .except
ceiling was domed as opposed
to be completely rectangular.
So
this is
I
guess
I
should put this
somebody
doesn't know.
And this was somewhat rectangular.
Ok.
#28
This is an overview,
or sideview.
#32
I was right
in there.
I wanted
to describe the layout.
What
I
thought
and that had... this came on later on
but,
I
got another impression
of another circle here and
spokes leading
to and fro
ok.
Then
I
saw that chrome
thing.
#28
The thing you called nose cones.
#32
Nose cones.
Was attached to
it.
(Mumbling)
I didn't
dare call
it
a missile.
Impression that
I
got... and
I
got
the impression that initially they were all
lined up parallel but they weren't.
They were on these
tracks with nose going this way .
This was
a second
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impression.
The first impression was,
maybe
12 or
lined up
like this.
#28
Ok.
If
I understand you right,
at one time you
perceived
12 to
#32
Yeah
this was the first perception
#28
Oh,
kind
of stacked orderly
#32
stacked orderly
in
a line
#28
ok
and then
#32
then
I
got the impression here that all
of
these
led to..uh..to this spoked thing.
#28
Ok.
#32
I wanted
to
say track,
but
I'm not
sure.
Just
a way
of conveying these things to that center portion.
Ok.
And the only thing
I
saw
in there was the..uh..
sort
of
a porch jutting or jetting gallory,
ok.
Around
this thing,
here
and there were few people here..
and some offices here.... and what they seemed to be
doing was supervise this entire area below.
#28
There were people and maybe offices
to this on the
side that could
look down this whole array.
#32
Yes.
That whole array was
in the center and there was
a gallery type jetting from this cement...
#28
Must
have been rather big.
#32
Oh.
It was huge,
huge.
Very poor
at dimensions.
But,
you've seen
s sub and you've
got the impression
of hugeness and
I
couldn't help compare
it because
that,
that’s
what,
it was
and. *uh. .but with
this gallery
I'm not too sure
this went all
the way
around...
but
I
saw
'em here
ok..... and all of this seems
to be interconnected.
Although this building was m
the..uh..in the second shot for some reason seemed to
be
in the..uh..in
the center
of this first drawing.
Ok.
Someplace around here.
Something like that.
#28
Building in number
is maybe what you want to say.
#32
Yeah.
Let's call
it number
2.
All right.
Then you
kept asking me to look around,
look around. .... .let
s
say that this entire complex was something like this.
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m
#32
#28
#32
#28
#32
Too bad
I'm such
a poor drawer.
Something like that.
Ok,
and from the higher perspective this seemed
to be
a heavy
tree line here,
ok.
And,
somewhere here,
I
don
t
know how far,
there was
a railroad track.
Kind
a went
this way... shot off.
But,
I
got the weird impression
that
..uh..it shouldn't have come close
to this area but
it was for some reason.
I don't know.
Maybe speaking
2 miles,
3 clicks,
4 clicks.
I don't know.
I_don
t
know.
But my attention just kept going to that railroad
track.
Ok.
Why
don't you draw me an arrow and show me the
direction where you said you saw water.
Oh,
yeah.
No problem.
But that was
a real high
shot.
You mean from
a real high altitude?
Yeah.
I
couldn't see anything and
I was trying to find
something
I
said
I
just go higher and higher and higher
until it just looked like
a map,
ok.
Uh..all right,
let
s
just finish
it off.
Ok.
I can't tell you how
WaS
'
You
know.
What scale
it would be but
I
11 try to look
at
it like
it was
a map.
I saw
a piece
of land
je
mg
out this way.
Something like this and coming down
something like this.
(Mumbling)
like this and with
islands
...something here.... ok
now there was..uh..
And where was this complex located?
I'm getting to that
yeah,
I'm coming
to that.
Ok.
This was island type. ... .islands
small dam
islands.... something like this
.and then there was
a. .uh. .hilly,
if there were mountainous area
...very
low
mountains... ok.... and this was heavily forested here...
ok.. ok... and then beyond that,
this,
this kind of sloped
and plained off and the.. uh.. the forest was not as heavy.
Ok.
#28
Further inland it was not as heavy?
#3?
Yes.
Light forested area
(mumbling)
and this dumb
thing was right here,
ok
and the railroad track
....someplace around here
(mumbling)
pretty isolated
all around here.
Few buildings here and there
#28
Ok.
Area
in question
is here
then.
Ok.
Now,
I'd
like you to do something for me.
From
a perspective
that you didn’t see that
I'd like to see
if you cant
put the problem together
in your mind and draw specia
picture for me
.
If
I
could have
a cutaway
of this
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area so that you were down and could ssb the under-
ground part,
like an ant hill farm or
a mold’s house,
can you show me how the situation leads from the
bunker down into this other complex*
• .tunnel things...
as though
it were
a cutaway from the earth and you
could see inside of the earth.
#32
I
can try and these are pure impressions,
because
I^m
not going to draw you
a real picture because
I didn't
see
the real thing.
#28
Yes.
I understand you didn't see
it from this
perspective but
I'd like you
to try
to put the pieces
together.
#32
What
I
saw was the circular bunker
ok,
that went
down quite deep..
#28
Draw me
a ground line
ok
#32
This is ground
ground level.
. .ok.
. .then sort of
a
spiral staircase
to
a small tunnel,
all right. .. (garbled)
#28
That was my question.
Is it man size or vehicle size?
#32
Vehicle size but not
a big vehicle size.
Small vehicle
size.
Accommodate transportation for people.
...
better describe that. •• .ok. .. .which lead
(mumbling)
to this huge bunker,
ok... and this would be the
top
of
the bunker.
All right.
This,
this very hard for me
to describe.
I
don't know the extent because
I was
concentrating on this thing
...one thing at
a time....
what you had there was the gallery
#28
Ok.
We've switched now and gone sideways for
a while.
#32
Yeah,
yeah.
Can't do that then.
Let me,
let me stop
there.
(Mumbling)
gallery .. .and then
I'll
just stop
there.
#28
Ok.
Where is the area with the electronic gear in
it?
#32
In here. It's
in,
it's
in this one here,
ok.
#28
In the
X.
#32
Yeah.
#28
In the
X
in drawing
1,
ok.
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