Approved For Release 2000/08/0Z% #11 +28 #66 #11 #66 #11 #66 #11 Approved For Release 2000/08/0™ B8R000200050001-5 PAUSE It...ah...going down the ramp, there's a lar... there's a huge, I can only describe as like a...an underground parking garage. There's a lot of square columns supports, supporting the ceiling or roof. If you drive down this ramp, it's certainly big enough for huge vehicles, certainly big enough for a tank or an APC, you can drive down this ramp and there's another ramp on the other side that you can drive out. Appears to be some sort of activity here, it seems...ahm...1 get a feeling there's a large parking area way back, you know, it goes back and back quite a ways, where a lot of vehicles of whatever are parked. But, right along the sides of where you would drive through, on both sides, it's almost like a maintenance or a machine shop or huge maintenance area for heavy equipment. At first I though it was...ah...it might have been an underground factory, but I felt more for maintenance for heavy vehicles. It seems odd that they'1ld put it underground. Over head of this...this underground installation or this underground area, there's, I'm not sure what's above it, but there's...there's buildings and other stuff constructed over this thing, kind of like...ah...I don't know if it was done purposely as...as camouflage and deception, but it certainly would be effective. It would seem like you'ld almost be able to have...double an installation where you'ld only expect one. Ahm... What is the activity now, in this area? In the area above ground, underground? Where you perceive right now. Underground there appears to be active activity... alee. Describe this activity to me. Maintenance type, grinding...ah...machine ship type..-ah...type activity. It...ah...most the rest of this place is...is...is dark, but this... this area...ah...on the other side of this drive through area appears...there's...there's well lighted, and there appears to be quite a bit of activity there. The sounds that you'ld expect to hear in the machine shop; grinding, and cutting, ead £88R000200050001-5
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : +32 #66 #11 #66 +35 #11 #66 Approved For Release 2000/08/ 900200050001-5 and banging. Ahm...I'm trying to find something to relate this activity to. I think it...it has something to do with armor vehicles, tanks, whatever, and it's kind of like a repair shop, maintenance area or where, if you had a lot of equipment that, well perhaps had been moth balled and rusted for a while or whatever, you'ld put them in there and give them a final going over. Check everything out, but the... ah...work that appears to be going on at this time is... appears to be heavy duty stuff, like you put a tank in and...and lift the turret off, and you were having problem with the turret ring or something; you had to grind it down or...it's pretty heavy duty maintenance there. But I...I'm getting a funny feeling that above this...this underground type facility or below ground level facility, is...ah...ah...other maintenance type...vehicle maintenance type stuff going on. And what is the nature of that work? Seems to be just every day...ahm...motor pool type maintaince above ground, below level seems to be something special, something heavier duty, almost like the equipment and the ability to...to...ah... to do extensive repair work and maintenance on vehicles. Up above is only...ah...very light repair work and maintenance type. The below level is where all the heavy duty is...heavy duty work. Describe the people doing this work. PAUSE Ahm...The personnel on the upper level, the light... light maintenance would appear to be more your GI motor pool type...ah...wearing coveralls. Must be fairly cool in there because everybody's dressed quite warm, but the...the personnel below ground level, I get a feeling more for...ahm...tradesmen, journeymen, expert machinests, expert millrights and things like that...ahm...they're not the... they're not a conscript soldier or something like that. They're...they're experts, they've been at their trade for years and years and years. There seems to be two differnet levels of maintenance. Alright. I have no further questions about this target area. If there's anything you would like to add, do so now. R000200050001-5
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200050001-5 #11 Why don't you read the coordinate again; we'll take a...a quick shot at the first thing that comes to mind. #66 Alright. Focus your attention on the area designated: SG1B PAUSE #11 I (mumble) nothing on that. #66 OK. You ready to draw then? #11 Yea. Where do I start? #275 Well, you started out by seeing...ah...a taller ramp type and going down... #11 I wonder if I should draw that independent or...ah... I'li...2'11 put it...try to put it somewhat together. PAUSE #11 At A is...I'm just drawing these dotted lines to... to show you how a track vehicle would fit going down that thing. It'ld be pretty tight, but at A you're going in and then there seems to be a ramp that goes down and this is...ah...ah...below level here and this is where your entrance is, down here. But above it, this seems to be some type of foundation or something that has a corner...sharp corner, and there are...there's...ah...there's buildings or something up here, OK, exactly what or their function...1 shouldn't have drawn it that way, I had a feeling more of a square roof, kind of like a...a maintenance type building. Ah...this would be...up here, this would multi-story with windows up on the top. And this...this building was...was cement block or concrete or some type of solid construction...ah... #27.5 Could you write...write that on the side there. #11 I think it was a heavy maintenance type building for heavy equipment and I also had the feeling that inside, right about here, there was a...ah...like a track vehicle or a heavy piece of equipment, and there was..eahe.. PoM unt ad wet ioe b oe we ee Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200050001-5
Approved For Release 2000/08 #27.5 #11 #27.5 #11 #275 #11 Approved For Release 2000/08) ¥ bs f. 88R000200050001-5 REROSOE That's the...these little dotted impressions? Yea, that's...that would be on the inside of the building, OK, and there was maintenance type personnel here or whatever, in.a set of brown coveralls. All the people down below were...were in a different...they weren't in...like in a military set of coveralls er anything...ah...kind of like...ah...dungaree or blue or something like that. They were more of...ah...a blue...ah...blue collar worker or...or our civilian type force, whatever. There was very active under there, up here they were just piddeling around or whatever, and to the left, over here, is where I saw these... ah...long, wooden sheds all laid out nice...nice and neat in a row. At first they appeared to be of some type of solid construction, When I went back to look...ah...maybe there were doors on then, maybe I just...the second time I went back I just dissolved the doors or whatever, but they appeared to be sectioned off, and I was over in this area, and this is...ah...where I saw the tanks, or what I picture as tanks, You describing them in the shed? Yea, they were in...they were under:the roof, they were in the...there were vehicles and stuff, there was equipment under this...under this shed here. »«ewas solid, I couldn't see through it, so perhaps these buildings...ah...the open parts were facing eachother, OK, there was open part only on one side. The back side of this building was...ah...solid, OK. And around this area...ah...1 had a fence, and... ah...seemed kind of like the cyclone type fence, and on top of it there was kind of V-like shapes, and there was kind of like concertina wire going down the top. And for some reason, and it wasn't visable in my field of view, but I felt there was a buard tower, perhaps over here, in one corner. To the left of your (mumble)? Yea, and there may have been another one over here. There was a guard tower or guard towers somewhere... ah...in relation to this...over here to the left. And in the background, somewhere off in the back- ground is where I saw these...ah...these trees, and ¥6700788R000200050001-5
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : #27.5 #11 #27.5 #11 #2725 #11 #27.5 #11 #27.5 #11 Approved For Release 2000/0. x ae . 5 they were the kind you see in Europe. They got long straight trunk, and...ah...the branches on top. They go up for a long way without,..without having any branches. And then there was other types of trees and stuff. And as I mentioned about these wooden vehicle sheds, they were reusable but they weren't well kept...ahm...seemed kind of run down. Can you remember what the inside of that...ah...ramp area looked like? I can try. How do ya draw a picture when you can see everything at once; there's no perspective. That's correct. Ah...OK, let me give...perhaps give you several impressions then. Ah...OK, I'ld just gone down the ramp and I'm standing at the bottom and on the other side here, at this end, appears to be another ramp that goes out, that goes up and out again. I don't know how to... Just put an arrow there and label it would probably be the best way. Yea. Ah...those were the heavy square columns or pillars that were holding up this...what...they were supports or whatever, and they went on back everywhere. And as you drove down here, there seemed to be an area back over here where there was a lot of storage or whatever, but most of the activity that was taking place...ah...was on either side of the area down...ah... Can you...ah...can you label this as an up ramp? OK. think that's what you called it, correct? Yea, it was...it was just another ramp. Ah...for nothing better to call it, I'll call it an exit 9 BOT FC §.00788R000200050001-5
Approved For Release 2000/08 #27.5 #11 #27.5 #11 #27.5 #11 #27.5 #11 Approved For Release 2000/08/074-IC1A-RE RIP PB-OG; 88R000200050001-5 ramp. Could be an exit... OK. Could you...could you lable down the bottom of the page then that this is the entrance so there's no mistakening it. OK. Well, you know, the thing of it is that either one could be used for both, either/and/or, but this is the way I came in. OK. I understand that. Can you just put arrow... write activity and put arrows to where you believe there was activity? OK. Ahm...it was back over in here, and back off to that side over here, back in here. Ah...it was on either side of this thing, and it's...it seemed to be like a fully equiped machine shop or something. You know, heavy, I mean really heavy duty machine shop. Ahm...perhaps I can do it from an overhead of that same... OK. Why don't you try...why don't you do that, and...ah... To try to explain it. Try to get it as proportionally correct as you possible can. That might be tough, cause I lost a lot of...ah... a lot of light, as I looked everything was dark in the background, but I saw where the...the light and the activity took place. I'm not absolutely sure about the proportion. But, you've got your ramp here, and a ramp here. And just so you can get an idea of...of where I was...ah...I'll call this the entrance, that's where I went in, and this is the exit that I saw on the other side, Ahm...for some reason, appeared to be a wall or something. I don't know what was behind it, perhaps it was offices or more of the same, but, in fact, for some reason I kept seeing something over here that...that perhaps I got the tank-idis, OK, but it almost appears that there was a tank sitting there like that, and it had the turret lifted up and somebody was working under- neath, grinding with a grinding wheel around the turret ring where it would sit down, rotate or 788R000200050001-5
Approved For Release 2000/0 #27.5 #11 #27.5 #11 #2725 #11 #27.5 #66 88R000200050001-5 whatever, but this area over in here...ah...is where all your activity was taking place, and there...and the same with the other side. Now, 1 didn't look in detail what was going on in the other side, but it was...it was set up like a machine shop or something. You know, these are machines and equipment, and I don't know exactly how they were laid out or what, but this is where the activity was taking place. And back over here, now, this ended here somewhere, and I had a feeling that it went...something went around back in here, and, I don't know, for...for lack of anything else, I had the feeling that whatever it is they work on or...it was more than that, because this was much bigger than just a maintenance place. Ah...there seemed to be just stores of...ah...this seemed to be pretty empty up here, this may be the temporary stuff that's sitting there waiting to be worked on or whatever. That's where you're putting the dotted lines? The dotted lines, OK. There seemed...there seemed... all seemed to be broken into vehicle parking areas or storage area or something...whatever is being worked on here is being stored here, and...ah... this up here is fairly transitory, where the dotted lines are. I had a feeling back over in here was more permanent, and there was just row upon row and it went back,..ah...quite a ways further than I could see, that I could feel. Describe...describe how much of that is covered. How much of what is covered? I know the ramp is covered, you said, because it's in a...down under... No. Yea, well it...this is...this is the entire underground layout. This is all...this is all l... Oh, OK. That's what I was concerned about. Everything on Page 3 is underground, Approved For Release 2000/0addaemelp
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 $ #11 #27.5 #11 #27.5 #66 #11 #66 #11 #66 Approved For Release 2000 BRRO00200050001-5 Yea. The only thing that you might see...ah...above ground would be the ramp entrance. I had a feeling, for some reason you couldn't...this...the exit...this other ramp over here would...would be disguised. If you were looking for...ah...this particular thing on overhead photograph or something, you'ld want to look over here. This is where you'ld be able to find it. You're pointing at the entrance ramp that you labeled on Page 3? Right, and I have a feeling the reason you'ld be able to see it cause you'ld be able to get the corner of this thing, and that would trigger you to look over here and you'ld be able to find some evidence. And I don't know why I drew...well, maybe this goes under... further under or whatever, but I notice now that as I went down I saw to my left and to my right, but when I was above ground looking at where this ramp went down on Figure 1, there seemed to be a foundation or some- thing square here, OK. And I felt there was some type of...of...ah...raod or something inbetween these two areas on Page 1. Ah...1 just had an overwhelming Feeling that there was a machine shop down there. There was just no, you know, if I wasn't entirely off base, because it was so familiar being, you know, being a machinist or machine repairman myself. Of course, the columns are stuck all...all around there, through there. I was like a big underground parking garage with a machine shop. I don't have any more questions if...ah...you don't have anything else you'ld like to add. Can you draw a...ah...overhead of the outside area where this sets in the countryside. I can, but not from having looked from above. If tryed to get up...get an aerial view, but that was... Do you have an aerial perspective? Well, I can piece it together from the ground, from what...what I have seen. So in this case, you're attempting to put pieces together, but you didn't ever actually see from overhead.
Approved For Release 2000/@@siifes #11 #27.5 #11 #66 #11 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 {¢ a , ; "00788R000200050001-5 Tere lukas: Correct, correct. Ah... PAUSE Ah...it seemed to me, and I may have had an overhead at the same...in other words, different perspectives at the same time, but there's something about this corner, there's...there's...1'm not sure whether that building covers the entire corner or whether it's Fenced off, but there's other buildings up here. Ah...this is that large maintenance building, and there seems to be some type of platform here, but it kind of blends down into the surrounding over there or whatever, and you can only see one corner of this solid foundation or whatever, where this entrance ramp goes down, and there are other...I perceived there were other types of buildings, OK...ah... built on top of this area. This seemed to be a maintenance building, there may have been a small building over here, and so on. Ah...and this was some type of...where vehicles go up and down and this is wide enough to bring a vehicle in. This is Page 4, right? Right. Ah...over here are the vehicle sheds that I described...ah...on Page 1. Ybu've got the fence... the...the square things on the end of the fence. I think this fence goes this way instead of continuing on straight, I'm not sure. Anyhow, these...the squares would be the guard...guard tower. To cont... well, I'll try to make it a little clearer. The dotted line is the continuation of this underground thing and the ramp out here, but it's not...I'm sure it's not visable from overhead. How do you feel about your imagery and how you've done here? Well, it's either pretty good or it's all analytical B.S. One or the other. Ah...I just had very strong feelings, and especially when I got underneath and the machine shop thing. It got to a point where I could...ah...see grinding sparks coming of a...a grinder...ahm...could almost smell the machine shop type smell with the oil and the cutting lubricants and things like that. Had some very, very vivid images of...of...ah...the front end of the...the new Soviet tank. I'm not sure whether it was the 13 fe SRN Sg {0788R000200050001-5
Approved For Release 200 e a, 96 -00788R000200050001-5 64 or the 72 model. For some reason the...the...ah... the 172 model sticks in my mind because it...it seemed to be solid wheels that I...road wheels that I was looking at rather than spoked. #66 Anything you want to add? #11 Nothing. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 "ti : 96-00788R000200050001-5