. Approved For Release 20 nieve — #31 +21 #66 #31 66 #31 +26 #66 Approved For Release 2000/Q8/; h@6 -00788R000200010003-7 I have a feeling it's a hill into which this thing is dug along this long access. The hill on my horizon as being looking past the building at the hill...it appears high on the right side much more....much more pronounced...shaped almost like abuttress and then tapering slowly down to the left into a ridge line which proceeds Of . até turning around and looking away from the building I'm getting a feeling that it is ona siope away from this...like in the foothill. of the mountain but, it slopes away off from the...into a...on the long sloping run down into a valley..uh..a shallow valley some distance from me in the distance ...on the other side of this valley possibly one mile and a half I see another feeling of a ...I want to say another sharply rising piece of terrain rising up. I want to put another hill over there. The hills seem treed..uh..but the slope..uh..in this area.. seems untreed, unforested until it curves away from my line of sight, and gets down into what would be the valley. It seems to turn greener in the clift down there. Whereas, here where I am is rather brown and drab as though , I'd say, grassed hillside. It seems open to me. No trees. in this immediate area. Focusing your attention once again on the building describe its color to me. It.....a darker charcoal appearing on the top. (Mumbling) size of the roof. Beneath the roof line it is alighter gray or a dark sand color. It is two-tone..uh.. Focus your attention now on the activity at the target area and describe the activity to me. 1,.uh..although this. thing looks skeletol, or something, standing under the covered arch, or the covered (mumbling) or whatever, looking at the downhill side, away from the hillside..uh..saw in interior of the building, somewhere a.. (mumbling) maintenance, scenario with some sort of a ...the rear of a large track vehicle in the building with men crawling on the dock side and working on it on the outside...and..uh..turning around now, at this vehicle and looking back I have the feeling of a large bay containing..uh..a significant number of track vehicles. Describe the comparative size of these vehicles. : ClY*RBP96-00788R000200010003-7 Kunst
. Approved For Release 20@@e@s@ulein +30 +57 #31 #66 #31 #66 #31 #66 #1 #66 RIGGS -00788R000200010003-7 They are..uh.. (mumbling) wheeled...tread is about nose high on this man and no cupotas...it's a straight turret. ..it's about upper chest high on aman. There's a .+.a muzzle break thing on the tube. They all appear about the same size. There may be four or five here in a tow pointing ...it's ..emy left...it would be my right at the original start point looking the other way. What is the nature of the work done on these vehicles? Uh...L don't have any feeling of anything other than maintenance...let me look for a minute. You may answer this question by describing the actual activity of a worker. PAUSE I'll pick a worker. When I started I had feeling of a guy handing something down into the turret and that work...work was being done on the left side of a ...of the gun mount...forward of the gun in..possibly the gunner's position on a panel of dials and graye. -y gray, sand gray...the equipment rack located in the forward and left side of the tube. Like a part...l had a...I had like a part being plugged. in and being hooked up. A small thing. Hand size.Let me find another sample. Fine. 1 will wait. PAUSE Had definite feeling of..uh..one Mongoloid (mumbling) person. I'm getting various shots of bogie wheels off and being replaced...and, one with engine compartment. open...rear engine compartment... .and another one was some sort of a back compartment of some kind dropped down and for a moment, I thought I had one located on a trailer, flat bed, trailer...as though moved by road ...-but, I don't get any specific one-of-a-kind or some special type shot of any one major thing....-similar with all of them. That's all I got......sorted. Ok. Fine. Focus your attention now on this area continue down beyond these vehicles...describe what's down beyond these vehicles. A-RB P96-00788R000200010003-7
. Approved For Release ae | eee +40 #31 #66 #31 I'm looking on the starting direction, past vehicle I..uh..feel that the back of this...this open bay area is walled off, and...uh...has a sort of a..uhe. junk racks...I mean a..uh..open bay window type of parts type of a place. But just past the last vehicle it's as though if the vehicle made a right that that goes around a corner and.goes through another big ..uh..gate in the wall...just an open passageway and proceed to other points somehow. I don't know where I am within the whole building now, but I have the feeling of a...['m standing at this open cut out in the wall. The in tank the in tank is to my tight. There's a wall there, but I have the feeling on the other side of the wall is light coming down. Possibly..uh..some sort of an open yard of some kind. But, that in the past I am.e.e.el would drive along under an overpas....-an overhang by this court yard. By: it's open light area and I can continue down a long tunnel. I see a light at the end of the tunnel. But, pecularily, it is only...it is only a one-way trip. It's only wide enough for one ...for one tank. I'm going by wooden upright post on the right and a wall on the left and I'm going by there and it's as though down in the other part of the building there are more servicing stalls...stalls or bays for other types of work or something. PAUSE There is some sort of a low rail.along that court yard. I call ita court yard, but it's not a court yard. It's just like a hole between two structures that I didn't see before. But, I feel that there is light in there that is not covered over like the rest of the structure. PAUSE I'd like to call to mind now, a comment that you've made previously, and ask you to focus your attention on that area again and explain further your impressions. This impression is concerning the structure and that it'g made to look like something else. PAUSE It's..uh..it looks like a. barns (phonetic) or something.» Ore. My impression then was that it looked to be a more substantive construction than it really was and that it wasn't a building complex with walls and with doors and jams and rooms inside but, it was essentially a shell frame which covered Approved For Release 2000/08/04 ¢GIA-RDP96-00788R000200010003-7 Fae anen“Taeen’ een cp
. Approved For Release 2000/0¢ +46 66 #31. #66 #1 66 #31 #66 #31 +50 (> IOUARIbi296-00788R000200010003-7 ial alot of open space rather than alot of closed in spaces like a regular building would do. The outside of the place is strickingly funny and that may have caused me to say it. It's...I had this definite feeling of, ramshacked, rumble, dumble down wood while inside it's really got something going on in it different than would appear from the outside, it's all. All right. Now, focusing your attention inside once again looking at the vehicles. Do you recognize these vehicles? -1I would say they are the T-55 type. Tell me now, the particular components of your perception which lead you to make that statement. Rounded..uh..sort of..sort of..flattened, round, low silhouette (mumbling) muzzle break, tubes, this feeling of large tubes down about one meter down the barrel...thing sticking out the front of it..eand..uh..general size in contours of the M60 with about one foot taken off of each...one foot taken of f the height of the chassie and about another foot flattened’ off: the top of the turret. Lower: slung than ours, but not super low. Little more squat looking. Around fender in the back.. I don't know what else. Different feeling of a double hatch, rear end compartment. I don't even know if that is on a 95. Focus your attention solely on the first vehicle in mind now. Yes. Sean the vehicle for nomenclature. It has a..uh..a.euh..five point star. I meant to mention this earlier, but, what I was looking at before, I had the feeling of a five point star on what would have been the right side of the cupola. Now, let me look at this thing. I'm not getting anything more. (Mumbling) put another star on the forward top of the chassie end of the barrel, on the slanted part between what appeared to be two raised things like light frames or something. They're round and they stick up...they stick up on inside of each fender. ¢P96-00788R000200010003-7
a aaa Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200010003-7 #66 #31 #66 #31 #66 #31 +55 w #66 +57 #31 #66 #31 Describe the color of the vehicle. Is a brown gray. It...not brow, more grayish. And the color of the star. Red. What is the gestaltic nature of the personnel working on the vehicle? PAUSE I get more...they are-..more that they are..uh.. Russian. But, that they are Mongolian..uh.- Mongoloid. At least one. But, I don't know. I.. at least one Mongolian. They're Mongoloid, They'll never draw. But, I don't have. .uh..l don't know. 1 feel like I'm in some Soviet province somewhere. A frontier province or something. I don't feel like I'm in the heartland. Feel like I'm out in the semi-tactical forward area frontier type..repo, depot, or something. Tell me the data which you perceive that makes you say that these people are Russians. PAUSE I don't know why I said that. I have perceived no actual reason why I should say that. I ddn't even know what to look for to see why I said that. PAUSE Describe the workmen to me. PAUSE Has dark hair. Has (mumbling) eyelids. Ruddy complexion. Wide face. High cheekbones. 5, 6, 5, 6,..uh..size. Wearing a..uh..brown...some little brown kaki, dark kaki..uh..pants. I see some sort of a parka (mumbling)..wouldn't mean it's cold, but, even inside, but no gloves, but a parka type thing with a...which is a darker brown. Padded. Uh..and has a fur..uh..looks almost like a old..uh.. Flight jacket..it's..uh..fur colored type thing. Ingide of the collar, I want to say it's got fur on it, but I don't have the feeling that it is cold inside so much as it's cold outside. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200010003-7 7
Approved For Release 2000 Or &; ; . om ° ‘ 00788R000200010003-7 #66 #31 Approved For Release 2pQ0/68/ the whole thing, I was really hesitant to say, you know, to work on any roads in and out, or anything like that, because this weird overhang... immediately an overhang, a passover, Or a passunder, or whatever it's...-immediately constitutes TOA sees It-could bez: anything. I didn't concentrate on that. 1 was working more on the building. Uhaes ok, I'll draw you an overhead....-8, 9. This funny way (mumbling) line means the back of the building, ok, like that, ok. That line really shouldn't be there.....show continuity. Where I was first was..---well, let me draw....here is like entrance door, like big....not even an entrance. That's wrong! Let me.redo that because it gives the wrong impression. It gives the impression of doors. There aren't doors, it's just big carved out...and this is...ok. Ok. Uh..here is the overpass, right there, going in like that. Here is the feeling of at least one bay. Also, the feeling that there's some sort of a cubicle there, blocking view when I was standing in the doorway. Here is exit gate. Here is bay window and here is long tunnel going out. All right. Four to five. That's what I said. Ok. Tracked vehicle bay. I will draw a dotted line along here...open area. I don't know where that is that's why....you know..... That's it. Track vehicle bay, and here's. .uh. what do you call that. It's not a gate...gate implies something blockage. It's just a passage... passageway... «ok. So that was my track and I stopped right about there. I was getting the feeling of the open on the right and the long hallway on the straight ahead. So that's nine. Ok. Anything else? I will write on this. Either very skinny building or it is built into hillside. That rough line keeps coming back to me. All right. Looking away from the place I had the feeling of this down slope. Let me draw you....-best way to do is perspective, I think. Not a perspective, 1 mean a side view. Ten. The building...the building level is about like and then gentles on off like this...down and then it starts to take up again, ok. This is the hillside to the rear. Here's the building. The gentle slope..open slope...slight valley...vegetation begins...ok...and then vegetated hillside. That's about it. Want me to darken any of this up or do you think it. will zerox ok? P96-00788R000200010003-7
Approved For Release 20% So #66 #31 #66 #31 #66 #31 Approved For Release 200@/6a/0 86 -00788R000200010003-7 TW That's ok. Anything else you want to add? No. Wait a minute. Yes, there is. Ok. How do you draw a profile of a tank? Tanks. Tanks are all alike. There's muzzle break. The squashed cupola. The squashed round cupola. or not cupola..turret. The. .uh.. fenders... bigger than that. More like that. It had a split engine compartment in the back..ehad it sticking out like this...and over here was thing...rear fender again. This is an artists conception of a piece of shit. And the other down slope here, is where the other star was. I'll put one here. That's all I can do for drawing a tank, I'll tell you. The Front end of it...this is the slope and there is something on each side of it. Of course, that's in perspective. That's laying back. Those are front fenders. That's what I'm trying to get. There. That shows it laying down like that. I got the feeling of two lights, lamps of something or racks, circular racks sticking off the front end of the thing. That's not looking too bad now, is it. (Mumbling) I've discovered how artists do s0 well. They scribble so that nobody can tell them it doesn't look very good. You know they put so many lines down there, one of them has got to be right. Well anyway. Why don't you label them front, side, and back views? Now, Gk. That's all I can do #66. be. §6-00788R000200010003-7
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