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#66;
Okay,
my next
question was whether
it was
an active
or passive
device.
#01;
It's,
uh ... I
think
it’s
an active
device.
Has,
has
to
actuate ... something ..
,
You know,
like
a
sixty/forty
feeling
for... for
sixty percent
active,
forty percent passive.
It's
got
a
dual
function.
.
.
Having
an awful
difficult
time
concentrating
on
this
target,
for
some reason.
#66:
All
right.
Well,
I have no
further
questions
about
the
target.
If
there's
anything you'd
like
to
add,
please
do
so
now.
#01:
No,
can't
add
anything.
#66:
Okay.
Let's
go
ahead
and prepare
to
draw,
then.
#01:
Uh,
I
don’t,
you know,
like
say,
from what
I
ve
got,
remote viewing wise,
don't know what
this
target
is,
but... I
also
had
a
lot
of,
uh,
had
an
awful
lot
of overlay
and
everything,
and
I was
tryin'
to
fight
this
overlay
off.
Like when
I
first,
the
first
thing
I
saw,
which was
the
tubes,
and when
I
saw
like
cogwheels
I
immediately started wantin’
to make
a
tank.
But
that,
in
fact,
is not what
it
is.
These
are just
some kind
of
cogwheels.
So
I was
continually fighting
this
overlay
off.
I
saw,
you
know,
I'd wanna make
a
city
street,
and,
uh
,
I knew
that
that's
not
really what
it was,
and
I was
fight-
ing
that
off.
It was
like
I was
getting very
ge-
staltic impression
of what
the
target was,
like
a
small portion
of
the
target
or something,
and
as
a
result,
I'd
think
up what
I was
gonna make
it.
So
I was
continually fighting
off
this,
uh
,
this
overlay
problem
.
//66:
You had
some difficulty
in acquiring
a
target,
like
you usually
do?
#01:
Yeah,
I was
a little
conf-,
say
I,
I
haven't,
uh
,
I have never
gone
against
a photograph
that
s
stuck
off
somewhere before.
So
I was
concerned
about,
you know,
what
do
I
do
to
access
the
target,
do
I
go
to
the photograph
itself?..
If
I
access
the
target
is
it
something
like what my
target
is?
And
in that
case,
do
I
go
to
the wrong
one?
You know,
do
I
go
to
the
one
that
it's
like,
or
do
I
go
to
the
real
target.
Uh,
if
the
target's been destroyed
or altered
in some way
since
the photograph was
taken,
am
I
gonna recognize
it
as
the
appropriate
target ?
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# 66
:
# 01
;
# 66
:
# 01
:
#6 6
:
# 01 :
# 66
:
# 01
:
# 66
:
# 01
:
# 66
:
All
these thoughts were-
All
these
thoughts
are
going
through my mind,
and
I'm wantin'
to
access
the
real
target,
you know?
One
of
these,
will
the
real
target please
stand
up,
you know,
kind
of
effects.
So
I,
I recognize,
because
of my difficulties,
that
I had
a
lot
of
overlay,
a
lot
of
o f
overlay,
and
so
it
s
very possible
that
1 was
throwing valid data
out,
as well
as
the
overlay.
Okay
.
In my,
my perception
of what was
overlay
and what'
wasn't,
you know,
it mighta been
erroneous.
But,
uh
,
I 'll draw what
.
.
.
Draw the things
you did
see.
Right,
and,
uh,
you'll have
to
put
up with
that...
Okay,
these
cogwheels were
like very
large
drive
type
cogwheels,
that's
why
I wanted
to make
it
a
tank,
but
I
couldn't make
it
a
tank,
'cause
I
didn't
see
any treads
or anything
like
that.
But
I
did
see
these
cogwheels,
and
I
did
see,
uh,
an association
with
these,
some very heavy,
thick
steel planks,
or plates.
And,
uh,
got
this kind
of view
of
these
steel plates.
Maybe
this’ll
give
you,
by
drawing
these
out,
these 'll
give you
a location
for
the
cogwheels
on
the
actual
target.
Uh,
I looked
to
see
if
there was
rivets,
or welds,
in association with
the
steel
plates.
And
I
can't
tell which,
but
I
do
know
that
there were
no
rivets,
visible
to me,
so
this,
they were probably welded
in place
.
Uh
.
.
.
Okay,
so
the way
it
sits
in your drawing
is
the way
you
saw
it
.
Just
the way
I
saw
the
Gogwheels,
right.
At
one
time you tried
to make
it
into
a
4 pellicle
or
a
tank,
but what
you actually
saw was what
you've
d r awn
.
Just what's
on page
one,
that's
exactly what
I
saw.
It's
definitely not
a
tank.
Okay,
in your
experience,
now... now
that
you
look
at
the picture
and
I
see
the picture,
these
things
that you've
described
as
cogs,
do
they
look like
any-
thing
else
to
you?
What
other
things
could
they be?
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#01
:
The only other
thing
that
can remember
ever
see-
ing
like
this would be,
and
they'd
be much bigger,
and
that would be some
form
of paddle wheel,
like
on
the
side
of
an
old Mississippi steamer
or some-
thing,
you know.
#66;
Okay.
Knowing
that
the
large
and
small
in perspec-
tives
are
left
and
right,
sometimes
a problem
xn
remote viewing.
#01;
Yeah,
X,
1^
#66:
If
they were not
large,
if
they were
small,
what
would
they be?
First
of
all,
how large were
they
in remote viewing,
what you thought was
large.
#01:
Well
they weren't
as
big
as
the Mississippi paddle
wheel
type.
. .things.
These
looked very much,
a
lot
like,
uh.,
you know,
some
sort
of
fan blade.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
But
I
don't,
you know,
I
don't have
a
feel
for
the
exact
size.
#66:
Okay,
so you had some
sort
of plating and
then
these
shaped
things here.
#01:
These
cog
shaped
things,
yeah.
Why don't
I
just
label 'em
cog
shapes.
#66:
okay.
#01:
And,
uh
,
then
the second
thing
I had was,
uh
,
tubes.
And
I had
the impression
of
a.
.
#66:
Well,
you had
a
city
scene you
said-
#01:
Uh,
yeah,
I had
a
city scene,
and
I was reading
that
as being
overlay,
I kept wantin'
to make
this
big New York City scene,
and
I kept
fightin
it,
and
cutting
it
out,
and,
uh.
.
# 66
:
# 01
:
By New York City scene-
You know,
steel
and
big,
big buildings,
and ... concrete
and
sidewalks,
white sidewalks
and everything.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
And,
as much
as
I wanted
to
do
that,
I had
a
dis-
tinct
feeling
that
this was mostly overlay.
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#66;
Okay.
#01:
So
I,
I
concentrated harder
on
the
target,
and
the
only thing
from the
street
scene
that made,
that
I
believe attributed
to
the
target,
was when you had
me standing
in one place
and you asked me
to
look
down,
and
I
saw what
appeared
to
be white metal,
like
a
coarse metal
that
I was
standing
on.
#66:
And you
said
it was
hot?
#01:
And
it was very hot,
yes,
and,
uh
,
by
coarse metal,
it's
the,
uh,
I
don't
know
if you've
ever
seen
this kind
of metal before,
it's
got
like
the,
what
call
chicken tracks
on
it,
and what
it
is,
it's
for traction...
It's
like,
uh.
.
#66:
Yes,
I've
seen that pattern imprinted
on sheets
of
metal
that
one walks
on.
#01:
Right,
yeah.
It's
like,
uh
, when
it
gets wet
it
keeps you
from sliding
or
failing.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
This
kind
of pattern...
#66;
Okay.
#01:
Okay.
And
this pattern was
like white,
so
recon-
centrating
on
the
target,
trying
to
get
rid
of
the
street
scene,
I
kept
going back
to.
.
.
Oh,
then
I
wanted
to make automobiles.
For
some reason
I was
having
these automobiles
in my head.
I
felt
like
that wasn't
pertinent
to
the
target,
that was
over-
lay
of
some
sort.
So
I
started
cutting
out
the
auto-
mobiles,
and
I wound
up
going back
to
the
tubes.
#66:
So
this apparently ... uh ,
the most reoccurring
image
to you was
of
some
sort
of
tubes.
#01:
Right,
tubes.
And,
uh, well
that
and
the handle-
bars,
bent handlebar
shape.
I kept
getting this,
uh,
well,
first
off,
I kept
getting
these
two
tubes
like
laid
one right
over
the
other.
And along with
that
I kept
getting
this,
uh,
this
like handlebar
shape.
And
the handlebar
shape,
like
a modified
view
of
some
sort.
And
then,
this
is
the
first view
that
I had.
And
I
got
some kind
of
grooves,
stripes
or wrappings
or
something
around
the
tubes.
And
AX.
kept
back.
But
then
1 had
a,
I had
also
an impression
of
a,
like
this was
real
shiny,
like
it was,
uh,
polished
aluminum.
And,
uh,
then
the grooves would
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#01:
come back,
like
stripes,
and
then
the
shiny aluminum
would
come back.
# 66
:
# 01
:
# 66
:
# 01
:
# 66
:
# 01
:
# 66
:
# 01
:
# 66
:
# 01
:
# 66
:
Okay.
And,
uh,
at
the same
time,
urn,
page
three,
I
got
a,
like
looking
from the
side,
I
got
this
glass
type
appearance.
don't know what
that
is.
•
.
I
put
a dotted
line
in here
to
separate
it
from the
tubes,
'cause
it’s different
I
felt
like
1 was
looking
at
a bubble
of
glass
obliquely.
You
know,
like from the
side.
I
don't
know what
that
is.
And,
uh
,
I
also
had
a feeling
of,
uh
,
when you asked me
if
it was
electric,
and
I
said yeah,
I had
a feeling
like
it
was
electric,
but
i^Pwas
also,
there was
some kind
of
light
put
out
by
it,
or
collected by
it,
and
then
it was
about
sixty percent
active
and
forty percent
passive.
And
that
is,
uh...it
was
a,
uh...did
I
use
the word
spread?
I
think
I used
the word spread.
Spread
something.
Well,
first
of
all you said
it
condenses
something
and
then you
said
spread.
Yeah,
condenses
and spreads.
I
guess
that's
about
it,
that
I
can
draw.
Now,
did you
see
these
tubes m
any
other
configur-
ations, because
it's
pretty senseless
to me
in draw-
ing number
three.
I was wondering whether
or not
you
saw them
in
any other
configuration besides
that.
Uh.
.
.
I had
a view,
I'm not
sure
if
it
was
a more
detailed
look
at
the handlebar shape
or not,
but
I
had
a view like more
from
the
top
of
this
thing
that
went
like this... and
this
kind
of
effect,
as
if
I
was viewing
it
from the
top.
But
I'm not
sure
if
those
are
the,
like
the
handlebar
shapes,
or
not.
Okay.
I
asked you-
Oh
,
I
saw
end
to
end
tubes.
I
think
I mentioned
that
once
Yeah,
you
can
tell me
about
that.
But
,
you
know-,
they
looked
like
they were different
sizes,
' (louctJlL- they were
like...
I had
a
tube...
and
then
a
tube.. .and
then
a
tube.
You know,
like
they were
different
size
tubes
fastened
together.
Are
those
two
different
drawings
that you
re giving
me,
and number
four?^
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#01:
Yeah,
I’ll separate
them with
a dotted
line.
"A"
is
the handlebar
thing,
and
"B M
is
the
end
to end
tube..
.
#66:
Okay.
Now did
I
see
on
the
end
to
end
tubes
you
also
put
your stripes?
#01:
Yeah,
it's
stripes,
or
lines,
or
grooves.
I
tell
you,
they’re very much
like grooves,
I
call
’em
stripes first
,
then
I
said
they were
lines,
and now
I’m
callin'
’em grooves.
Oh,
there was
something
initially
that
I
had,
that
I mentioned,
that
I
did
not wipe
out
as
overlay.
And
that's
page
five,
when you
said,
okay,
standing
on
it turn around
and
tell me what
you
see,
I had
the
impression
of
seeing
two
long
straight
lines,
what
I
called
thin
lines.
And
they looked
like
this,
and
I had
an impression
of
two
fine pillars.
I
don’t know
if
I mentioned
that
or
not... that
shape...
I’ll
label
the pillars
pillars,
these were
fine
lines...
I
don’t
know
if
those were
important
or
not.
And
that’s
it,
I
guess.
#66:
Okay,
one
other
question.
I
just want
to
see
if
there’s
any other
imagery.
I
ask you whether
or
not
this
thing moved
in
any way whan
it was
asso-
ciated with it’s
function.
#01:
Oh,
ocular,
yeah.
#66:
What kind
of,
did you
see
any separate
or different
imagery
at
this
time?
#01:
Yes,
I
did.
I
saw,
okay,
okay,
this
is
gonna be
difficult
to
draw... you know,
it’s
hard
to
draw
movement
'cause you gotta know before
and
afters.
It's
like
this...
Uh ,
it's
as
if
there was
an
arm-
ature,
okay,
that...
I’ll draw the
armature
the
way
I... vision
the
armature
to
be...
Now,
when you
asked
about movement,
this
is
the... this
is
the
imp-
ression
I
had.
I pictured
this
thing
that
looked
just
like
this.
.
. and.
.
. I' 11
show you what
I meant
by
movement...
Side
to
side movements,
and
...and
up
and
down movement
and
then
this
element,
around
which I'll
draw
a
circle,
could
also move,
you know,
the,
up
and down
and
sideways.
.
•
•
Like
there was
complete unrestricted movement
in
any
direction.
Like you
can manipulate
a
crane,
or
a front
hoe,
type
device.
And
then
a man had
somethin'
to
do with
the movement,
’ cause i
saw
a
guy
sitting
in
a
seat,
looked
a
lot like
an automobile
seat,
he had
a
con-
trol board
in
front
of
him.
And
that's
it.
#66:
Okay.
A man
controlled
this movement
this
thing made-
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#01:
Oh,
yeah.
I
got
the movement
as being,
you know,
like when
I
said
sixty percent
active,
forty
percent
passive.
Like
It
had
a function both passive
and
active
and when
it was
active
the man was moving
it
#66:
Okay.
#01:
I'll
tell you,
you know,
uh,
in page
six where
I
drew this
thing,
I know
it
looks
a
lot
like
a
crane
there.
But what
I was picturing
in my mind when
you asked
a particular
thing about movement,
does
it move,
or
something
like
that,
the
first
thing
that
came
into my mind was
the
old,
the
old dentist
type drill apparatus,
it’s
got
all
the
cables
and
lines
and everything
on
it,
that he
could pull
around and
drill your
teeth
in any direction with
that kind
of
thing.
That's what
I had
a picture
of
in my mind,
and
that's
the
only
thing
that
I
could
probably
connect
with.
And
that's
it.
#66:
Okay,
I have no
further
questions.
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