Approved For Release NEE K -RPP96-00788R000200330001-4 ~ Loc 4 / NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS ORCON INSCOM GRILL FLAME PROGRAM SESSION REPORT “CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH .051630Z JUL 78 REVIEW ons (gra Abed AEF norse ofhbledeo BoA M_ Approved For Release 20th | Xi
dd ._ Approved For Release 2000/04FAs RE ROP96-00788R000200330001-4 SUMMARY ANALYSIS REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION CCC-41 1. (S) This report documents a remote viewing session conducted in compliance with a request for information on.a target of interest. 2. (S) This session represents this viewer's third attempt at this target area (see CCC25 and CCC33). The viewer was able to attain his usual state of relaxed concentration and focus on the target. He Te stated that he was undisturbed by ambient room noise which was iMeRESste, 3. (S) The protocol used for this session is detailed in the document, Grill Flame Protocol, AMSAA Applied Remote Viewing Protocol (S), undated. 4. (S) Following is a transcript of the viewer's impressions during the remote viewing session. At TAB A are drawings made by the viewer reference his impressions of the target site. At TAB B is target cuing information provided the viewer with analyst's comments. Approved For Release 2000/0 ft) RE ROP96-00788R000200330001-4
. Approved For Release 2ooois QF | GIN-RD P96-00788R000200330001-4 TRANSCRIPT REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION CCC-41 TIME #28 This will be a remote viewing session for 0900 hours, 1 April 1980. PAUSE Relax and concentrate now. Relax and concentrate. Relax, relax, relax. Focus your attention on the photograph that I have shown you. Move your awareness ‘specifically to the area designated as Move now in space/time to the target at 1000 hours, target time 1 April 1980. Focus your attention on the target building. Move now to the northeast end of the building. Focus, focus. Penetrate the northeast end of the building. ‘ewes’ Focus, relax and concentrate and describe the funetion of the target to me. PAUSE +04 #01: Uh...seL'm looking at a....looks like a large door. Appears to be maybe..uh..40 feet tall. Sort of railroad going into the building. Behind the door are..uh..it's a huge loading ramp. I see aeeeee- looks like....-it's a rotatable section of floor, and there's sections of track Appears to be large, high concrete--.loading ramp,and there's. .uh..looks ‘like some kind of big trucks parked on the ramp inside the building. Think that the trucks are made here. There's a special kind of truck made in the building. #283 Tell me what makes you say that. #OLs There's..uh..what appears to be these new, these new trucks. They got metal shielding on ‘em and there's some kind of a cover that,.-like a length wise cover and it's smooth and it goes down the back of the truck. x é . Approved For Release 2000/08/0% 54 ih [op26-00788R000200330001-4
_ Approved For Release 2000/08/07 (*@] F 6-00788R000200330001-4 They look like trucks, but they're funny looking too. Some kind of a off-center nose. I keep. seeing.... at the end of this, this, this shield like thing that goes down the back of the trucks, I keep seeing this .»uheslooks like sort of a ball and a cone type affair. Looks alot like a ball on the end of a cone. That's towards the back of the truck. There's very large clamp like devices on the back of this truck that hold this, this like shield. It's like shielding on it. Geta strong impression that in this building they're working with......this part of the building is where they use ..uh..well machined metal.This strong impression that metal, rough molded metal comes into the building and +10 it's finely machined here. They're doing fine machine work here. Refining rough made parts, or something. Putting something together from further machine parts. Think maybe the trucks are assembled here, but, but the truck is not the major thing that's made. What's made here is what the truck carries, I think.Something to do with alloy. There's a special alloy of metal that's used here too. #28: Explain the raw data that makes you say this. #01: Uh...I keep looking for roughly smelted metal, and I keep getting a more refined type of metal being used in this building, and yet they're refining it even more by machining. It's like the word molybdenum or something like that keeps coming in my mind. Like a very hardened steel of some sort. You know. Like a highly polished defect-free form of steel is being used here, and I keep getting these cone and ball type combinations, and..uh.. There's something to do with a. truck. There's a specially designed truck for.... maybe the truck's used for moving things inside. I don't know, but there's a specially designed truck for combining with this..-I don't, I don't, I'mlosing..... #28 : I want you to relax again. Focus your attention on this area. Don't work too much on. analyzing what you see. Simply report what you see. Focus your attention solely on the interior of the northeast to the building. Tell me more about what you see in there. Careful not to analyze. PAUSE #01: I see this loading ramp and they're heavy concrete ramps that go up to this loading ramp, and there's Approved For Release 200i fe é FDP96-00788R000200330001 -4
. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : oiShi iy. : +15 #28: #01; #28: #OL: #28: #01: \ / Approved For Release 2000/8 E . {f-dp728R000200330001 4 .eeel see like these cog wheels by the side of the ramps. They're either drawing something up the ramp or whatever goes up the ramp fits into these cog wheels. There's high ceiling with....looks like some kind of apparatus is hanging from the ceiling. Appears to be a second floor to the building but there's holes cut in the floor or what would be the overhead roof. There's. holes there with structured ramps and things going ~ . through the halls. There are tall black objects that go through these halls. Some kind of....look like they might be roof supports. They're tall and round. Move up to the roof and look down at the area underneath yous Describe it to me. PAUSE I'm looking at......I'm getting two images. I1 feel like when I go to the roof of this room and look down I see this ramp or series of ramps in this loading dock type affair with a pattern of tracks and like a almost interior parking bya of some sort. When I go backwards into the roof structure I see..uh..an oval hole in the floor and this large, large support thing. This black support thing comings; coming through there. Sort of a key-hole type design to the right. Almost appears to be a delicate..uh..sort of a delicate cage like structure next to the support. I don't know how to describe that. Tell me what's down on the ground. PAUSE There's..uh..ceil. It's just like a large bay. I don't...I get the impression I'm seeing a big truck park of some sort but it's under the ceiling and there's these.....uh...some kind of these covered shields like are stacked along..uh..I don't know what it is. Some kind of a slide ramp like affair by the trucks. Tell me about these covered shields. It's like tubes inside tubes; pipes inside pipes. I don't...they look alot like......1 don't know. sJRDP96-00788R000200330001 -4
_ Approved For Release 2000/08/07 ore J — +20 = #01: #28: #01: #28: #01: #28: #O1: #28: #01: #28: 7 =: I don't know. | -4 They're curved on the top. They're ‘painted dark metal; and they're long and thin and they got like flat sides. For some reason I keep associating the cones and the balls with these. Touch them; feel them; explore them. Tell me about them. PAUSE They're thin. disposable for they're disposable. there's a...-.l don't know. than anything. against it, I whelming sense it. Just a po that feeling. I see what loo I'm getting al much sense. I delicate: and t and power. It I don't unders I get a strong sense that they're some reason. They're thin metal and And, I also get a feeling that It's a sensation more I get.....when I put..uh..hands flat et a feeling that there's this over- of strong engine of some sort behind er behind it. I don't understand sg like a thimble. Some kind Of a..euee t of things that don't, don't make too get a strong feeling like they're very en I get a feeling of this strength sg like they're both at the same time. and it. Some kind of .....I don't know. Ok. While you're on the target here, I want you to do a time check. hours, 1 April Ok. Make sure your It's correct. I want you to be at the target at 1000 1980. 1000 hours, 1 April 1980. time sequence is correct. Now, tell me about the activity at the target. I'd say it's a PAUSE little less active than it normally is. It's probably right, right now at about 38/40 percent of its normal activity. What is the normal activity? 4 Approved For Release 2000/0 FAyAg R0P96-00788R000200330001.4
_Approved For Release 2000/08/07¢ . ; #01: ‘ ; #28: #OL: #28: #01: #28: . : Approved For Release 2000/08 1: ‘ 8.00788R000200330001 -4 Normal activity is one of more, more finishing, more technician finishing. More production, but production seems to be very low, for. some reason. They've either finished a great batch of whatever they're doing or there's some seasonal reason why they're production is low. It's a much lower production. I get a very strong sensation that production is extremely ‘important. It's either important to us or it's important to them. I think it's important to both. Uh...I see reduced production but not entirely. Maybe 40 percent, and there's.....it's very, very cold here. Extremely cold here right now. That may be a reason for the reduced production. It's interesting. I even know how they heat this building, I think. I get a strong sensation that there there's large furnaces or something, nearby, and they're actually heating half of this complex, this city with the heat from the furnaces. Heating some kind of huge furnaces. It's abnormally cold here, I think. Focusing your attention now on the target area, you tald me about some loading ramps, I believe. Right. Explore the target in the way that is necessary, and describe what is loaded at the loading ramps. I see 2 things. These shielded objects are shield type objects. I think they're put on some specially designed truck. The truck is then driven up the ramp onto a flat bed railroad car. There is essentially two sections to the ramp. . The northeast section of the ramp is for loading these trucks and objects and the southern most railway loading area is for incoming ..uh..supplies, material. The northern railway is..uh..you send things out and..uh..southern ramp area is to bring things in. Definitely two ramps. Tell me more about the shields....-shielded vehicle. L don't understand whether the shields are loaded on a vehicle or there is a vehicle that is shielded. 6-00788R000200330001 -4
#01: #28: #O1: #28: +33 #O1: #1283 #OL: #28: #01: Approved For Release 2000/0gAy/: Approved For Release 2000/08/0 [ -00788R000200330001 -4 They're loaded on the vehicle, and this truck like vehicle is, is built a certain way that carry these, these shields. I keep wanting to call them shields. Uh..--1 don't know why I do that. But, they're like bent shields. Uh...there's a truck specially designed to carry 'em, and it's either mated up with the shields here at this, this factory or the truck is actually also built to the factory. It's all loaded on to the ».euh..onto to these flat cars, these railroad cars. OK. They're shrouded. They're covered with shroud when they. leave. Ok. I want you to expand your awareness and consciousness now to a much broader perspective of the target concept. Allow yourself to freely float through time and space focusing only on these shields. Look for imagery which tells you their ultimate use. PAUSE Get a strong impression that there..uh..wait a minute. PAUSE I get alot of impressions, but..uh..I think their primary, their primary purposes is to provide an all- weather protection for some kind of a launch vehicle. I don't, I don't know what kind of a vehicle though. I, I get strong sensation that most of the launch vehicles. probably manufactured here as well. But, there's a great portion of it that's missing. Ok. I don't know. I get a feeling that the guts are made here but not the..uh..maybe not the guidance package or something. Tell me a little bit more.....I have one more question. Tell me a little bit more about the ball and cone concept you've had. I just keep getting visions of intermix balls and cones. I, you know, I don't, I don't know how to...I get all different views of it and I don't know how to isolate it. Strong and clear impressions of these cones and ball shape things all fastened together. " ®DP96-00788R000200330001-4
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : SR * J i 00788R000200330001 -4 = 28: In what manner? #O1: Uh...tip of the cone to the edge of the circular shapes. The ball shapes. Many of them...like two or three fastened to a single ball shape or multiple ball:shapes fastened on to one of the cone tips. I don't... just all variations. I don't know why. #28: All vight. At this time I have no further questions about the target area. If there's anything you'd like to add before leaving the target area, please do so now. #O1: I, I think maybe..uh..there's mostly refining work done with special alloys. I don't think the main components are physically produced in this building. And, that. the production is important, for some reason. I get a strong impression that the guts of the objects are made here but not the intelligent parts of the object, and some of them I don't feel that way about. I don't understand why. That's about it. #28: Ok. Fine. No further questions now. Focus your attention back in the room here. Move your arms; move your legs, and prepare to draw. #O1: Before I draw any pictures there's something that I want to say, and that has to do with the, the..uh.. the target in particular. I got a really strong impression that..uh..when I was remote viewing this target that I was seeing alot of things ....-some of which were honestly remote viewed, and some of which were remote viewed but don't appear to be honest to me. By that I mean that, there's no question about what I was seeing being on the target, but I got a strong feeling that alot of what was on the target that I was seeing was not right. Ok. It was like it was fakery of some sort. On the target itself. Like the target itself was being used to fake me out. While I was seeing these things that were supposed to be something, they in reality are not. They're fake. . They're not real. I don't know how else to explaih that. I feel like what I remote viewed is on the target but about half of what I remote viewed is not real. vee” Approved For Release -o0/08 pOK Tovec-co7ssrovo2c03s0001-4
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : SPORE soot . a : #10.5: #O1: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #01: — Approved For Release roo008/gyt Ok. You have a feel for the individual items and things which gave you that sensation? Yeah. I kept getting the feeling about these shielded type objects and it was like..uh..I was getting...I was imagining walking up to one and putting my hands Flat on the side and saying..you know..what feeling do I get, and I was getting a feeling like...I was getting two feelings. The first feeling I was getting was this, this machine, this engine, this powerful machine, or engine being inside the shield, and at | the same time I was getting a feeling that the shield was empty. You'know. It was so like a half-an-half feeling and I don't, I don't really know how to explain that. It was almost like gestalticly I was supposed to get this feeling but in reality that's not there, you know. I also got the feeling there was an implied production level. It wasn't there. You know. Like it was far, far less than what it should be, and one would assume 100 percent production. When, in fact, there was a very deliberate and real 40 percent production. I don't you know...I don't understand that feeling either. You know, it's like alot of push-pull type feelings. I didn't know whether I was being pushed or pulled but I just wanted to say that before we draw what's at the target. Ok. That's good. Good that you said it. This is very interesting. As you go through your sketches then when you have that feeling again that you can relate to an item that you're sketching at that point in the tape will you mention it one more time so we have it altogether. Yeah. Ok. I've taken some rather copious notes. Ok. Page 1. Do you want a sketch of the exterior doors? That won't. be necessary. We.can probably start off with thesecees eeeeethe ramp RESpoc-coreeroooz002s0001 -4
Approved For Release 2000/08/08 F : A Jf26-00788R000200330001.4 Nee’ #10.5: Yeah. What appeared to be the interior view that you had there in that area. #01: I got an impression that I was looking at.a..... #10.5: And, if from your perspective you had the feeling of a large door you can put it in on that sketch as an interior view or whatever. #O1: Like, page 1 will be like I'm standing just inside the large door that slides across on rollers, ok. I got the. impression that on the floor there was a circular turn style like thing with this section of tracks on it, and that this thing like rotated around. And, coming off of this there was, there was tracks going up like this to this loading ramp. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this justice or not, but I'm going to try. These, of course, are oan the ground. Then I went up to this loading ramp, and this loading ramp was just real high. Came down like this. Off the back side of this loading ramp there was like a maneuver area on the loading ramp, there were ramps that came up. This _gort of affect. I don't know how else to draw these. . These are ramps. This is a loading dock, here. Back up in this direction, like towards the upper right hand corner of this, this bay type area was a, a row of these like shielded type objects. They were sitting up on a ramp of their own design, you know. Back over here was this..uh..these really strange trucks like affairs sitting back over here. Ok. I'm getting kind of close to the top of the page so I'll go to page 2. The..uh..1 keep referring to these objects as shielded type objects, or.shield objects. 1 got a feeling like they're both, and that goes hand in hand with this strong fakery feeling that I've got. I feel like in the case of shielded objects some of them are in fact shielding guts to an object or refined parts or pieces to an object. But, some of them aren't; some of them are just.shields, you know. Just empty shields sitting there. I don't know how. to explain it. Uheseceeees I hesitate to say they're empty ok, because I got a feeling like some of them aren't. and I'm not sure there's a reason why some are and some aren't or... I just get a fake feeling with them, you know. Like some of them are real and some of them aren't real. #10.5: Are these all in association oné with the other? ‘ ; Approved For Release 2000/08/09 ¥96-00788R000200330001-4
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : ‘GEER -RDP96-00788R000200330001 -4 #Ol: #10.53 #01: #10.53 #01: #10.5: #Ol: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #01: #10.53: #O1s #10.5: #Ol1: #10.5: EGRET You mean as a batch or a group? Ok. I dontt a. I understand that question. Ok. That's you astray. really the best I can do without leading Let me put it this way. As a group I get the fake feeling. Like there's something fake about part of them are....a portion of them...individually, an empty one is a shield object and a full one is a shielded object. One's as valuable as or as viable to me as the target as the next. Ok. In sketch 1, in. the upper right hand corner, you've drawn a series of these shields and shielded objects. They're both there. They are both in that group. Yes. Ok. I can label that shielded objects and shield objects. Like I say, I don't understand why I'm calling these things both......it has something to do with this, this fakey feeling, which I don't understand, either, and I'm not trying to be overly complex, or..... No. That's all right. I just....edon't, I don't understand the feelings I'm getting with it and I'm trying to vocalize them and it's just not.coming. cut the way it. should, you know. I don'terccoss That's fine. That's fine. Don't let that bother you. You're doing good. Page 2. What would you. like on page 2 Well, on 1, you. were like moving away from the large interior rolling door. Do you have more beyond: that which would be on the top of 1 you would want to add on 2 as a continuation.from bottom to top. 10 Approved For Release 2o00/08/QF PR Rifrss-00788R000200330001-4 VL ts!
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 ¢ {5 aa. -4 #OL: Uh...just that these trucks, on the left, it's almost like an interior truck park. There's more than one truck. #10.5: Ok. What is your feel for the number of vehicles... individual vehicles in that area? I'm not trying to pin. you down to a number, but (mumbling) a large number, a small number, a medium number..... #OL: I'm trying to put a frame of reference on what my large, medium and small would be. Uh......1 get an impression that there are less than 25 trucks. Less than 25 trucks, but that is a smaller number than would normally be there. It's a medium number compared to what would normally be there. Like I said. earlier, there's this reduction in production. for some reason. Page 2. I had an impression of a...like a suspended ceiling with an oval hole in it and your support sections going up through it, and..uh..I'm not... I don't know whether or not it would be important to sketch that or not. It's up to you. If you want that..... #10.5: Why don't you do a quick relationship for that... eS is what it would do with the systems .. (mumbling) #01: This, this over here being the elongated section of the loading ramp...back side...that sort of affect... tracks coming here...I got impression...looking at it from that direction that there was....a...-like a support thing.that went up through an oval in the ceiling.. and that there was some kind of a...this kind of affect ramp type thing that came down, like this.....I don't know exactly how to describe that. This was ceiling and ..+.uth...that above this ceiling this thing just kept right on going to.the rest of the ceiling. and that there was a.....up here was a....I don't know..... a more refined working area. By that I mean a cleaner ‘area, tools were more sophisticated, machines were more sophisticated. That kind of thing. And, back here was the door. #10.53 Let me throw one thing in here. You mentioned wire CAGCseceee #O1: Yeah. The wire cage was somewhere right in here. — 1l Approved For Release 2ooovosher: hk I ppss.0078R000200330001-4
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : ¢ #10.5: #Ol1: #10.53 #01: #10.5: #Ol: #10.5: #O1: - =: 4 alt 5 ns -4 ts OK. I don't know what that was. It looked like a real delicately built wire cage. Did you have any feel or impression, more detailed impression for the activity on the second level? Any imagery associated with the activity there. Just...uh...I guess I should clarify what I mean by refined work. Uh...it's sort of like...uh...you have some other place...uh...stamped out. rough metal part and they send it over to this building, and then - in this building they polish the exterior of themetal. They drill the holes; they put in the...they tap in the screw threading...uh...they engrave the necessary channels, or whatever, on o the metal. They check it for flaws. That's what I mean. That's the kind of work that's going on here. You know. Connect things together. Ensure that the appropriate alloys are used in different components, parts, and things. Ok. Uh...for 3, what I would like to do, if you would please, is if we could examine the relationship between the peculiar wheeled vehicle that you've sketched in l, and the shielded objects, and the shields, the combina- tion shielded objects and shields. If you'd...uh... Ok. I got an impression that this vehicle had...like a weethis kind of a window with some kind of grill in here, like this. There was...like a large bumper that came around like this. This cab went back sort of like this in some way, and that this shielded type thing set right here on the side, and went back like this...and, there was some kind of a...I don't know what to call it..... like a cherry picker type device that laid. along side of here, and, there was like...uh...this went back like that. May I compliment you on your outstanding sketching there. That's.....l wish I could draw that good. Right. I got a feeling like..you.kmowiss.this is the truck, and it comes back and there is this large double wheel back here in the back. Approved For Release 20001 9p yb RoP26-007e8R000200280001-4
Approved For Release 200010807 OF ew” #01: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: ew” Approved For Release 2oooiosio abe FP o788RODO200830001 -4 And, that this...uh...doesn't just lay on here, ok. There's some kind of a thing that comes down like this across the top. You know. It goes down the side. And, there's alot of other things in here on this vehicle that are far more complicated. Too complica- ted for me to draw, anyway. And, that this whole mess * is loaded onto a flat rail car.....after it's shrouded.. truck and everything is covered with a shroud. And...uh...these are...what did I say...some of them are shielded objects and some of them are shielded shields. , Now, let me ask you now the size and proportions of the sketch in 3. The vehicle and the associated shielded objects or shields, and shields. Am 1 right in: presuming that all shields are of the same proportion? Yes. They're all exactly identical. And...uh... Let's start with the...uh...the base vehicle itself. Well, I'm going to start by putting a stick figure on the vehicle, ok. And, I would say that this is probably in length in the neighborhood of 55 to 60 feet, and the vehicle, itself, in width, is probably...uh... 18 feet. The actual shielded object or shield object, is...uh..-probably in the neighborhood of 40 or 45 feet. And, its width is probably around > feet....6 feet. Tall.....the shielded object's just a little bit taller than the cab roof, and the cab roof is 13, 14 feet from ground level. Ok. When you were working this imagery did you see in your imagery a human figure associated with the vehicle. You mean somebody standing around it...by it? Yes. Did you have related imagery such as that? Oh! Yeah. There was people all around this area, but I got a feeling like in order to do 100 percent production you would have 300 people in this big bay. In this particular case there was more like 140 people in the bay. You know...just a very reduced level.... What I'm getting at is that you did have a direct association between magnitude of the vehicle and human .eeoovces 96-00788R000200330001 -4 —e
Approved For Release Oe EE #Ol: #10.53 #O1: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #Ol: #10.5: #01: Approved For Release o0010B/o7e RE Oh! Yeah. People, people climbing on the vehicle. Certainly. All right. Have you ever seen a vehicle like this before in any of your previous activities or analytical work of any of that type? Or does it resemble anything that you've seen before? Jt SEEMS. cecccese I'm not, I'm not searching. I'm just asking you for the record. is what I'm doing, SO.-.-.eee No....this, ok, this side, this cab side of the vehicle, ok, for some reason is familiar to me. Ok. You're referring to the off-set cab. Yeah. The off-set...the driver's, the driver's space, if you will, you know, the cab portion of the vehicle, and, I don't know why. I might have seen it somewhere - or. it might hold strong resemblance to a...some kind of a heavy duty cherry picker type vehicle, but, I certainly don't remember this part. The vehicle, you know. The large off-set dual wheels and the front wheels. Ok. One last question then on this, and, again, I'm trying to establish relationship between the shielded object situation, and the peculiar carrying vehicle.....- or the unique, not peculiar, the unique carrying vehicle that you've seen it located on. Uh...what is the relationship there? Do ...are there...well, are there feelings of.... Like one can't gO..+..-.can one go without the other, is what you're. saying? Right. What type of functional interaction, feeling for connectiveness or nonconnectiveness...uh... integrated or nonintegrated type of systems that you may have picked up. I..uh..-1 got a feeling that the vehicle...sseerecreers that the vehicle was specifically designed to carry this shielded device, whatever it is, or this shield type structure, if that's what it is. But, it's not necessary. Like there's a dual role. Like this shielded thing...or this shield type...UNecscerereece fr ifpe-007eaR000200330001-4 |
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : P9p-00788R000200330001 -4 #10.5: #01: “#10.5: #01: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: Approved For Release 2000/0 confirmation that's laid onto this truck can do very well without the truck. But, that one of it's modus operandi, if you will, is to be loaded onto this truck, or possibly just a transportation reason. I don't know. Ok. I don't they're integral to each other to operate. either one; but, they are made to go together. - Ok. Would you be able to comment on any possible mechanical interfacings that you have.....in your sketch on 3, you've placed a cherry picker type device on the Yeah. There'Seerceves rear portion of the vehicle, and I'm trying to see if you Nave aveeee. Yeah, I think it's got a capacity. The truck's probably got a capacity to onload or offload this.... lift this shield thing. Uh .. ....I also, you know, I keep referring to it as a shielded or a shield type thing. And, the reason why I do that is..-Uh.eceess inside of me, analytically, I want. to say, ah..ah..I know what's in this shield thing.....you knOw....e- we got a rocket in here, but I can't do that.-cseeees that's the point I'm trying to.make. I don't know why I can't do that. There's something about it that disturbs me. Ok. TL understand. Fine. It's good that you're keeping it right there. Perhaps it's used as a dust type....uh....dust free environment for transporting this element, whateyer it is. I don't know. Uh...-ok....+-now there's another interesting image apparenatly associated with a vehicle. Whether it's the same or not. You had early.. in the.session uh..ok...a new truck, metal shielded on them.... some kind of cover; smooth. Looked like trucks, but funny looking....off center....no shield on the back. That's that. B8R000200330001-4
N 2 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 ; #O1: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #Ol: 5 nen -4 Yes. Now, ball-coned type affair toward the back of the truck large clamp devices hold the shielding on it. Ok. Uh...-working with or used well-machined metal. Ok. This molded machine metal is coming through, and you have this feeling of a ball-cone....which later on in your session.......we can compile them on...if you feel that's appropriate...that later on in your session you had varying feelings of combinations of balls and cones. Yeah. I did...and...uh...what I'm getting is..uh.. this is going to look very strange, but, I'm getting a cone, ok, inside of a cone, inside of a cone, and then there's like a ball type contraption. And, there's a cone that looks like this with a ball behind it, and then, I get like a triangular pattern of cones, and, I don't know why I'm getting these great variations of cone patterns. I'm trying to remember. I get also like....what looks like a...this kind of affect. Like three balls together, and, there's one other variation I was getting. I don't know. These are just variations. Page 4. Just cone and ball variations. I think the most predominant one that I got that was the clearest was probably the cone inside the cone inside the cone. Like taking a bunch of dunce caps and stacking 'em one on top of the other. Ok. Why don't you label that A there. Ok. And B is the cone. on the ball, and C is the cones: all coming together, and D is the three balis fastened together. Ok. Am I correct. When there was an association wath qa truck...toward back of truck...unidentified truck at this point in the session. Uh..-.. Yeah. I don't know if they're coming off the..uh.. you know...part of the cherry picker device, you know. Like an extender type piece, or they're part of the engine part, you know, like an exhaust port on the engine part that lifts the cherry picker arm. You know. I'm not entirely sure what it is, but it's somewhere in the back one-third of the truck, ok, somewhere, and Approved For Release 2ooor8/fGF FaRiRP96-00788R000200330001-4
Approved For Release 2000/08/07@ E ry #10.5: #01: #10.5: #O1: #10.53 #Ol1: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #01: #105: #01: #10.5: Approved For Release 20000810 i z Brps-00788R000200330001 -4 close to the cherry picker arm, ok. Like in the base of the cherry picker arm. Definitely. It's at the very base of the cherry picker arms where I'm seeing these cone patterns. Ok. Can you put together a sketch of that area of the vehicle? Jeze' no. I couldn't do it. Ok. But, you located in what would be according to sketch 3, am I correct, you located in the right-rear - quadrant of the vehicle. Right. Exactly. It's right at the base of the cherry picker arm. That's just where it is. Ok. Cone inside the cone is kind of a unique thing and I think that's important....an extender exhaust, or something. Ok. Now, still exploring this area of the session... Uh.. #28 had you move up in the second floor area, and you examined that, and then he had you look down, asked you what you saw, you saw the truck partewith the covered shield feeling. Right. He wanted to...he asked you to tell him about.it. And, your first comment was tubes inside tubes; pipes inside pipes. Is that..... I think it goes along with the cone feeling. The cone inside cone. I just get a feeling these, these round shapes being one inside the other..-like you would sleeve something one inside the other. And...uh...look alot like..uh...curved on top; painted dark metal; long, thin flat sides, and you were then associating cones and balls.....that's what we're talking about in 3. Yeah. Yeah. You see, these were kind of like out of left field impressions. I don't know. Uh....possibly also a candidate for 4 is you had a feeling of thimble. | if98-00788R000200330001 -4
: . Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200330001-4 #01; #105: #01: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #01: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: #O1: #10.53 SECRET Oh! IL SaWeeceveees Is that of the type that you could put it on......- Yeah. I'll put it on page 4. I.saw.a smooth, polished stainless steel thimble. I don't have any idea for size, but it was really pretty and it was exactly perfect. And it was definitely a thimble. E is the thimble. I had to report it because it was very clear impression of a thimble type design. It was bright metal and Ok. Moving on through this session #28 requested you touch, feel, and explore the shield thing...uh...-+. - That's when I started getting that semi-fake feeling. For some reason. Ok. You had the feeling of thinness; strong sense of disposable sensation. Right. You know....like let's truck these out to the mountain and throw: them off the mountain. Sense of strong engine behind it.....and power behind it. But, that, am I correct, is part of your conflict- ing, some had and some had not, feeling. Yeah. Right. I don't know why I'm assuming. Ok. I'm assuming some had and some didn't. "cause that's the only way I can rationalize the two feelings at the same time. Ok. One last technical question, I think. Do you have a feel for the method of movement of the vehicle once loaded with: the shielded objects? Were they moved mechanically to load or were they moved under their own power. No. I think they're driven up the ramp. For some reason, I'm seeing them driven right up the. ramp. right on the flat cars. Flat bed railroad cars. Then tarped over and tied down, chained down.or something. Ok. Towards the end of the session #28 asked you to -eoncentrate on the shield and what was their ultimate use. You had the association ..-your words here are from my notes: "primary purpose is to provide all- weather protection for some kind of launch vehicle." Approved For Release 2000108107 GFifyRprps-00788R000200330001-4
#01: #10.5: #O1: #10.5: Approved For Release 2000/08/04) A P 96-00788R000200330001 -4 Yeah. I got the impression that's what they were for, but, like IT say...1 don't...that's an analysis, on my part. I do think, regardless what they are used for, that they are, they are designed for all-weather protec- tion. You know. To permit use in any kind of weather and under any kind of terrain condition. I got a tactical flavor out of it in any event. Anything else you would like to add. You were drifting in time there and you did have a jumble of impressions. Is there...are there any impressions that you may not have spoken about earlier that you'd like to speak about now? Uh.....-just that I felt like this entire building is a more refined working area....factory type atmosphere. That ali the necessary components are made elsewhere, but in the immediate vicinity, incidentally. I get the feeling like they don't bring them very far, and that this entire city complex is heated off a single series of very large furnaces that are probably used to smelt iron ore or alloy metals, and that alloy metals are important to what is going on there. And, that.. production is important to us and them, for some reason. The percentage of production is just significant. I don't know if it's significant because.it's less than normal or if it's significant because it's more than normal. I don't know. That's all I got. Ok. That's all for me. 6-00788R000200330001-4