Approved For Release 2000/1
DP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
wasn't anything really there
to look at.
I
had
the.
.
I had an impression that there may
be
little
flowers planted along the side of the
walk.
Some sort of
.
.
different coloring.
But
I couldn't tell
if
it was
a solid strip
or
if
it was
just
in blurges or.
I'll just
write colors along the
left side.
I don't
know about the right
side.
#66:
Okay.
PAUSE
#31:
Okay,
that was
2.
I tried to get myself farther
down there into
it.
And
I ended up with.
.
Then,
I ended up with again the
same doggone
figure.
Let me go over
to another page so
I
can draw it larger than
that.
And get the
right proper perspective because
I was trying
to get
in close.
Then
I ended up
.
.
that's
even too large
(Mumbling)
.
PAUSE
Okay.
These steps.
#66:
What color was this thing that you are drawing?
#31:
These are white.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
I had the feeling that outside here was
red.
Or burnt brown.
Okay.
But the pillars are
white.
This
I wanted
to say was
a deep color
in the middle.
.
this
is
up until now.
When
I
saw here was
a white triangle,
okay
(reference
the peaked roof)
.
#66:
Um hm
.
#31:
And its dark in the middle.
And what
I want
to
say
is that it is white.
.
bordered around
it.
Okay.
PAUSE
And
I had the feeling of.
.
how do you draw
these things?
They're not round;
they're
flatish round.
Its oversized.
Buy anyway,
they're handrails or something.
#66:
Did you perceive them as having
a function then.
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA
-
00901040001-8
Approved For Release 20
DP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
those handrails?
#31:
Yeah.
But
I
told you they were dark and
round.
I'll
tell you what
I
said.
I'll
stick with what
I
said.
One on each side.
PAUSE
And
I want
to say that the building
is
"L"
shaped because
I
had.
. where am
I,
one,
two
or three.
Okay
#66:
Um hm
#31:
I can't tell you how wide the bloody thing was.
#66:
Okay,
is this
A, what you're perceiving as
some
sort of overview perspective or what?
#31:
Yeah.
Yeah.
From the top down.
#66:
Oh,
okay.
I
can see where your roof peaks
then okay.
#31:
Okay.
There's
the other walk.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
I can't do that.
All
I can tell you is
this.
#66:
Okay
#31:
If there
is
a
.
.
okay.
#66:
Okay.
Is
there
a feeling
for
the building
or the atmosphere of
the building.
#31:
No.
Not really.
I
don't.
.
.
No,
I don't
really have one.
I
tried
to stay away from
anything that would.
. Maybe that's the
idea.
I
got the
.
.
If
I got one thing that was an
atmosphere of books,
it was
an atmosphere of
books
as
I already said
it.
#66:
All
right.
PAUSE
#31:
Okay.
I
got the atmosphere of quiet and
tranquility.
Didn't
see any hustle and bustle
going on.
.or anything
like
that.
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
:
00788R000901 040001 -8
Approved For Release 200fiWi49[M1MDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
#31:
Didn't get any feeling of traffic or anything
like that when
I was
.
.
you know,
my first
view or anything
like
that.
I
just got the
idea that it was just sitting there.
#66:
Okay.
Well,
would you.
.
How do you feel
about this?
You've made the comment before
that you didn't feel
like you were there.
#31:
I was starting to lose
it later on.
#66:
Okay,
but these
images.
.
#31:
When you asked me how large
the building was,
I started to lose
it.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
That, what
I tired to do then was
to like go
here
to see how.
.
you know,
to try to get
some feeling
for depth of this thing.
Because
for some reason
I couldn't get away from these
front.
.
the
front capitol or pillars or
whatever you want to call
it.
So anyway
I
tried to
go
to the
side.
So
I did get a view
from the
side but there's nothing worth drawing
from it.
Because by that time
I don't know what
I was doing.
Six.
#66:
But at the beginning here you.
.
do
I understand
you to
say that you,
you,
these images were.
.
#31:
Good.
This was good,
okay.
#66
:
Okay
.
#31:
Okay.
#66:
Okay.
The one,
the first drawing was the
perspective of the
two
.
.
.
#31:
Right.
#66:
.
. whites and where you felt you were behind
some hedge or
something.
#31:
Right.
That was
good.
I
say,
this was
good.
#66:
Where you're trying
to move.
.
#31:
Where I'm trying to move down the walk to this,
this structure anyway.
prrmrr
Approved For Release 20007TQP£{|f(C(f?DP96-00788R000901 040001-8
I
RDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
#66:
Um hm
.
#31:
And then
I think Number
3 was
good.
#66:
Where you were closer to this structure
and
.
.
.
#31:
Yeah.
#66:
.
.
.
perceived some sort of handrail?
#31:
Closer into the handrails.
But after that
I
began to
lose my
focus.
The reason
I got this
overhead shot at Number
is not because
I
tried to do
it,
but it was
as
though
I
just
was drifting away
from the target.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
And then,
the Six was
a side shot but that was
after you had said.
.
that was after
I
.
.
you
had said,
you know,
try to determine what size
it was.
Oh, wait
a minute
One thing
I tried to do
was.
.
I was up here up front
first,
that's
when you
.
.
that's when you first asked me
what size
it was.
And
I would
say, what
I tried
to do
is
go
.
.
go up the peak,
you know,
to try
to get some estimate of how high this thing was.
#66:
I originally
.
.
after that,
then
I tried to get
you to
focus on your relative position to the
thing
so that you could
judge based on your size
or your position.
How big it was.
#31:
Um hm.
#66:
Did you say something bout
feet or something?
#31:
That's
this here.
What
I can't tell you is
because of
the way
I was looking at
it,
I can't
tell you
if that
is
the
feet or
is that the
feet,
okay.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
You see why.
Because
I was
looking at it from
the
side out here and
I didn't tell
.
.
.
#66:
Okay.
Because
its
an
"L"
shape you don't know
(not audible)
.
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: SESREI-00788R000901 040001 -8
Approved For Release 2
RDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
#31:
I'll tell you right here,
my view does not
have
an
”L"
shape on
it.
Its
just
a
.
.
.
that's
it.
#66:
Okay.
#31:
I don't know
if that
"L"
shape
is hidden
in
here or
if
its
something farther
on.
#66:
Okay
.
PAUSE
#31:
I want to
say there's
a few windows.
#66:
When you were looking at
it from the
side,
right after
I
asked you about the size of
it.
#31:
Right.
Okay.
PAUSE
Okay.
So what
I.
.
I'll draw it on this sketch
but its actually here.
I'll write
feet in
so you know where,
feet
I think
I
said.
Either of these
two lines could be the
foot
dimension.
Okay.
PAUSE
#66:
All right.
#31:
Either
just the straight part of the building
or also
the perspective that would include
the back of the building which was
"L"
shaped
towards me
.
#66:
Because
it.
.
am
I hearing you to say that
that point it became
like
a two dimensional
.
.
#31:
Right.
Rather than
3.
I don't remember seeing,
I don
' t remember seeing anything other than
a
two dimensional and not only was
it only two
dimensional but
I could
-
I could perceive no
depth.
Okay.
So because of that
I don't know
what.
.
.
#66:
All right.
#31:
See
I
got the
"L"
shape from the overhead.
But
from the side view. Number
6,
I didn't get any
contour of
.
.
.
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
:9CI
8R000901 040001 -8
Approved For Release
I PB ^-RDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
#66:
All right.
#31:
Of
it being
"L"
shaped.
.
or not.
PAUSE
I
say
feet high for the front view.
That
was because
I was trying to drift up and down.
#66:
Are you saying that it felt or are you perceiving
as seeing
a
long ways
as you were trying to drift
up?
What is your scale of measurement?
How do
you determine that
its
feet?
#31:
It felt
like
it.
#66:
Okay.
Is there any way you can explain your
feelings
to me.
Any more than that.
#31:
No.
#66:
I'm trying to identify now.
.
.
#31:
What was
I using as
a
.
.1 think
if
I was
to
say the scale what
I was using was
this thing
on the right side.
If anything was being used
as
a scale measurement,
and
I moved up away
from this.
#66:
The handrails,
you're talking about.
#31:
The handrails,
yeah.
If anything gave me a feeling
for relatively or relative size there
it was
this handrail
thing.
And then by moving,
just
by moving
see because what
I
did was
I moved up
to
the peak and then came back down.
And
just
by moving up to the peak and coming back down
I said its about thirty.
#66:
Okay.
Fine.
All
I wanted to do is insure that
we identify that with how you come about
to
that
so that we can validate that
later and if
that looks good to you,
you know that technique
works
.
#31:
And the same thing goes with just the
figure
65.
.
just happened to come into my head when
I was
sitting here trying to look at the side of this
in response
to your question of how large
it was.
I don't think
I tried to be too analytical with
it,
it just came
in.
Approved For Release 2000/'
-'RDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
ftrnnrT
_
Approved For Release 2S^2^RClA-RDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
#66:
All right.
Fine.
That's good.
#31:
So anyway,
that's what
I have.
# 66 :
#31:
#66 :
#31:
# 66 :
Okay, well you've given me a lot of data here
do you want to go look and see what we have?
Let me,
I would like to draw two of these
here
so there's no question.
Okay,
that's
there.
That'll be this.
That's the white
bordered.
Okay.
Dark inside and then its
light around
it.
As though it was just wood
facing or whatever.
Frame.
Okay,
is that it then?
-SEW-
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
TAB A
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R000901 040001 -8
Ne 40001-8 _d . ~ Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : ClA-ROPEG cy? BaR0008010
a For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000901040001-8 Co m1 ~ MY 7 AS 333 3 ca ad Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000901040001-8 | | | |