MEMORANAYM ROB. BES OHHS 16 - FIA-RDP96-00791R900200190069-2 ‘PURPOSE: To detail the facts as | understand them, regardi production of a program for British Television, on the history of Remote Viewing (RV); to include association with the military (specifically the Ft. Meade Project), and its use (specific applications) during the cold war. ~ 7 STATEMENT Over the past eight rnonths, a writer by the name of, James Schnabel, approached me at least six or seven times via phone in an attempt to interview me for a book he was writing on remote viewing and its history. Initially he insisted that he was only interested in the science side of the subject, the developmental program at SRI- International, as well as current work being done at Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC). In the case of each contact, | recommended he call either of the companies direct, since | was only a ‘sub-contractor working for them. | told him that the work | performed was proprietary. When he asked for a specific name to reference, | stated that | couldn't give him one, since in both cases, | understood that the laboratories doing the work had since been shut down. SG1J On May the 17th, | was stopped in the driveway of The Monroe Institute by SG1J He asked if | knew that Jim Schnabel was going to be attending a Gateway seminar the following week; and did | know who he was. | told him that | knew who he was and had seen his name on the list of participants. SG1J then told me that Schnabel wanted to interview me for a film production he was doing on the history of remote viewing for a British broadcasting firm; and asked if | would be interested. | told him no, because my understanding was the broadcast would have sensational and political overtones, and was going to specifically address the old project at Ft. Meade. Therefore, | was very reluctant to speak with him again. | also informed SG1J that Schnabel had contacted me by phone on a number of occasions and | believed that he wasn't entirely open and honest with me during those conversations. assured me that Schnabel was very pro-remote SG1J viewing, that it was his intention to do only the right thing with regard towards the broadcast, and he wasn't interested in anything that would do remote viewing reputational damage. | asked[__|how he justified speaking with Schnabel at SG1J Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 -1-
all, given his signaturpo yeas PRAGRY BY AOSABNENLARGHRERSFRAb0200190069-2 the old office, and he stated that he felt those restrictions were pertinent only to specific operations, and of course _he — wasn't discussing any of these with Schnabel. | told SG1J that my understanding was that we were to neither confirm nor deny any allegation or information pertinent to the old office, . so | was reluctant to talk with Schnabel at all. [ __ pressed SG1J me. So, | agreed that if | was called, | would once again speak with Schnabel, but added that it would only be after the end of the seminar, and then, only to hear what he had to say. | didn't want to start a war with Schnabel prior to my evening talk on remote viewing at the Institute. . On May the 20th, | received another call from Mr. Schnabel, stating that he was going to be attending a seminar at the institute, would | meet with him there. | told him that | would meet with him sometime during his visit, but because of my schedule, | didn't know when that would be. That seemed to make him happy. | gave my formal presentation on remote viewing to the Gateway seminar group on the evening of the 22nd of May. The subject of the talk was remote viewing in general, my history as pertinent to my near death experience, the contents of my book, and this included some examples of remote viewing accomplished at the institute during 1983. Mr. Schnabel asked no leading questions during the evening. On the evening of the 25th of May, | received another call from Mr. Schnabel asking if | still intended to speak with him. | told him that | would have breakfast with the group on Friday (the next morning), and would talk with him before he left the Institute. During that meeting and subsequent conversation he related the following information: The Production is being undertaken in the United States on behalf of British TV Channel 4. The Producer's name he didn't share with me. He told me the camera team was probably going to be headed up by someone with the first name of Astro, a cameraman for Discovery Channel. He said the writer of record was himself (James Schnabel, of 6000 Kennedy Drive, Chevy Chase, MD 20815, (301) 907-2662). He outlined the gist of the program as two fold. The first part was how the special project started - CIA SCANATE effort, etc., and the full history of the Army's involvement in remote viewing, to include details about the Ft. Meade project, how it was/had been used in the cold war effort, to include the specifics of some of the live missions, which agencies had used Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 -2-
it, some of the Taper svcd ESTAS See MIs bie Nal RBMe RIMAF00200190069-2 are/were. Part two) would cover the science side of the effort, both at SRl-International and SAIC, would also include other- applications, what the current state of the art is considered to be, and who the best viewers are, and major players. He also stated that they wanted to present a live remote viewing and that was why he wanted my participation in the program. | told him that | couldn't participate in anything like what he was describing for a number of reasons. My background was primarily in the Science, Research and Development of Remote Viewing as a subject, and | could not therefore participate in any effort which had the appearance of a political agenda. Secondly, | wouldn't want to be associated to what appeared to be an expose’, especially one that didn't seem to be very accurate. Third, | had spent too many years establishing a good reputation, and didn't want to see it damaged in any way. He assured me that his historical facts were accurate and that they had been cross checked and verified. | asked him by who and_he related the following names; SG1J (Retired Project member) (Retired Project member) (Retired Project member) (Retired Project member) (Active duty - past Project member) and also specified four others, but stated that he was not at liberty to provide me with those names. Again, | made no comment. | asked him why he was so set on having my involvement in the film project, where there obviously were so many other important people already giving him what he wanted. He stated that the others felt | had been one of the best remote viewers in the Ft. Meade project, and he just wanted the live effort on camera to succeed. | told him the recommendations were unfounded. SG1J He then asked me what | knew about the capabilities of other remote viewers over the years. These he also specified by name as; | perceived this to be an attempt to display = -_ : a knowledge regarding past personnel, so | didn't respond. He asked me if | would share with him what | knew about; Dr. Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 ~3-
Stubblebine, Busby, and a number of others | SG1J can't recall. Could | verify their roles and the specifics of their involvement? | told him there was nothing | could do to help him. i ; He seemed to back off somewhat from that approach and offered that he would or could design the presentation so as to completely separate me from the initial portion, which wouldn't show any connection between me and the military aspects of the project, if | would only talk with him off the record. He stated that he really needed me to do the live remote viewing for the wrap up of part two. | told him that | couldn't help him. He stated that there were a number of others that were cooperating, that he had given them like guarantees. He said he had made promises to others, to protect them from any repercussions, and he specifically named Hal Puthoff as one of these others. He then said that he had even spoken to Keith Harary, who, he stated, was agreeable to providing some information. | told him that was nice, but there was nothing | could do to help him. He then informed me, that he already had sufficient information regarding me, he didn't need anything else from me, except the actual live remote viewing. If | did that viewing, how it was done and edited, could make quite a difference to my reputation. If | didn't do it, then he couldn't guarantee anything with regard towards editing. At this point | told him there was nothing | could do to help him. He asked me not to make a firm decision that moment. He asked me to think about it, and told me that he would call sometime Memorial Day. | received a call from Mr. Schnabel on the 28th of May. He Said that he wanted to tell me one other thing, before | made up my mind. He said he talked with the producer and they would guarantee in writing, not to connect me in any way to the military or the cold war issues: they would let me advertise both my business and book in my portion of the film clip, as long as | participated as the remote viewer in the live demonstration. | thanked him for the information. | received another call from Mr. Schnable on the 30th of May. He asked if | had made a decision. | told him that under the circumstances, | couldn't help him. As long as he was intent on producing a political statement with his program, or pursue the sensational, | would feel compelled to refuse. | told him that if the format for his program had been modeled on the ABC effort, perhaps focused on the science of it, or focused on some Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 ~4- theft | _Puthoff, [ap_—serena tala otogr Ln nopas ors rracozorscos- Sot SG1J
other aspect, | would, cansideys. RaticiPatina df A cHhSAtHoc. o/b 4rt000200190069-2 was unable to shed any light on the history beyond that. very disappointed with the decision, which | believe will be ~- reflected in the program as it is produced and edited. | found out two other items of interest on the moming of the 30th of May. One -[___ | has been telling people within The Monroe SG1J Institute (management) that he and | were collaborating with Mr. Schnabel on a film production. Two -[___]had forwarded a film to Schnabel, of three remote viewings that | had done experimentally at the institute in 1983. Schnabel told me this when he had called, saying that he had the film, and intended to use it in his_production. SG1J | have since written a formal letter i (attached), requesting that he stop telling people we are working together, as well as demanding that he retrieve the film clip. What could be particularly damaging about the film clip is that its contents were produced while Mr. Robert Monroe was under contract from the old office at Ft. Meade. We paid him for experiments performed in his lab in support of the Ft. Meade effort. Use of the film out of context would not be particularly meaningful, however, if it were presented within the original context, it could be very revealing and only add to the sensationalism of the show Mr. Schnabel is attempting to produce. Since Mr. Monroe is now dead, only [_Jand | know of the , circumstances surrounding the film clip. | suspect that [ SG1J has filled Schnabel in. In my discussion with Schnabel, it was obvious, that a great deal of information has leaked regarding the old office at Ft. Meade. The extent of this information leak was implied by the content of Schnabel's conversation and overall knowledgeability, especially while referencing individuals by name. The following indicates what | believe has been implied by my conversation with Schnabel: SG1J SG1J SG1J - Has been having quite open conversations with Schnabel, in which he has provided substantial historical SG1J data. [_|has specifically stated he has not provided any mission related data - which may be the case, but it is obvious that he has provided many of the names, inter-connections, . SG1J meaningful historical ties, etc., between all or most players at all levels. | believe that he may have engineered the entire series of contacts between Sschnabel and others. Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 -5-
SFrOTREFY: Bel AOR MEWS AlnaBESEH0% 1 R000200190069-2 about six or seven years at Ft. Meade) - Has had quite open conversations with Schnabel, in which he provided substantial historical data, but only with the understanding that he not be asked about specific military mission related RV, that many of his comments be taken off the record, and that he be protected as a source. - (Formerly a remote viewer and training NCO for a period of about three years at the beginning of the project at Ft. Meade) - Has participated in many open conversations with Schnabel. The extent of information provided is unknown, but believed to be minimal, since he only participated for a relatively short time in the old project. ri (Formerly a member of the group at Ft. Meade just rior to MG Stubblebine's departure (early retirement) -{ | C  plaims to have been one of the best remote viewers, which he isn't; claims a training qualification, which he doesn't possess; has probably had numerous open conversations regarding the history of the Ft. Meade Office, as well as some information regarding specific mission related efforts, and his accuracies with regard towards these specific targets. May have assisted in engineering the original contacts with Schnabel. (Formerly a member of the group at Ft. Meade, did some remote viewing. Currently active duty with the - Believe he has had at least some off the record discussions with Schnabel in reference to some of the history of the Ft. Meade Office; and has made numerous recommendations on who else to speak with. | spoke with after an initial conversation with Schnabel wherein he stated that he had talked with[ denied having spoken with Schnabel. But information Schnabel possessed could only have come from - (Formerly an advisor to MG Burt Stubblebine at Headquarters COM. as had numerous open conversations with Schnabel regarding much of INSCOM's involvement in the paranormal area. Is a close friend to Jim Schnabel, as related in a recent conversation with me at my home. Has probably shared private information relating to the higher echelon inter-actions regarding the project at Ft. Meade, at least as related to him by MG Stubblebine (Commander, INSCOM). Dr. Harold Puthoff - (Formerly in charge of the Scientific effort at SRl-International, until the mid 1980's) - Has had some scientific discussions about remote viewing with Schnabel; but Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 -6- SG SG1 ‘Ser Sey SG1J SG1J SG1J SG1J SG1J SG1J SG1J — SG1 . SG1J SG1J_ SG1J 1I
Schnabel advised mapprat dace éHadebas 2028/8646 Uc A SGHSSs. 309 fko00200190069-2 the military aspects. | was assured by Schnabel that | and my information would handled in a like manner (as with Puthoff), and any request not to be associated with or connected to the military portion of the show, would be honored. My primary concer is that | will be reflected as having either shared information with Schnabel, or someone else will make such an assertion, in order to involve me directly with the production of the film. | already done this etn locally and | have taken steps (see attached letter) to stop this from happening. | have no reason to believe it won't be done again at a different level. Joseph W. McMoneagle Executive Director, IIA, Inc. May 30, 1995 Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 -7-
Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 May 30, 1995 SG1I SG1J a S is a communication which | hope will help to clarify many of things that have been brought to my attention over the past iple of days. ien we talked in front of the TMI lab last week in reference to . Jim Schnabel, | informed you that | had every intention of 2aking with him towards the end of his program. | believe | ntioned that he had called me on numerous occasions, asking it | participate in either a book or film effort directed vards the history of Remote Viewing. You stated that you felt was sincere in his efforts to present RV in a favorable light. that time, we also discussed my reservations, and why | have am. ave since been informed of the following: That you have told various personnel within TMI that | have reed to work with you and Jim Schnabel on the Remote Viewing dduction. And, it has also come to my attention that you have agreed release the RV Tape which is used during Gateway presentations him, and in fact have already done so. e first statement is not true. You and | have no agreement ‘h regard to the production or Jim Schnabel. | spoke with him the end of his seminar at which time he presented me a aposal. | told him that | would consider it very seriously and ‘e him a response no later than Memorial Day. | did not take 3 proposal lightly. In fact | gave it very serious nsideration. My decision and response was to not participate any way. | feel that he understands my reluctance at this Approved For Release 2003/09/16 : CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2 -~-1-