Approved For Release 2000/08/07 <chaapaiiaappaiggiaeepe00070001-9 #663 #313 #66: #31: #66: #31: Okay. Let's prepare to draw then the images that you have concernin i SG1B Okay, um... The first thing I had was a...a street side scene, a snowy city street side, you know, with the snow piled up and all dirty and slushy from passing cars and everything. Sketch 1 shows. a...standing on a street corner, looking along the side of a building from the left. A car pulls up. Guy gets out of the car. That's some sort of a pullover. Pull- ing off, you know, drive-up like thing on the side of the road and the guy gets out and walks up into the building. Some sort of a driveway and a sliding gate in the background, to the back right of sketch #1 and.a funny regul- vertical regularity around the place as. though I was looking at fence posts, large fence security, hurricane security fence posts with. wedgies on it, with V's on the top to carry concertina wire. Well, I've drawn that in and I'm pretty sure that the fence feeling, but there certainly was some sort of picketing around the building. Uh.. sanyway, the guy got out of the car, walked up into the building. Guy in a dark coat, bent over. So I sorta took it to be, you know, the guy. In sketch 2 I've drawn an overhead of sketch one. Uh... which, coincidentally enough, although when I first finished the session I didn't said I didn't recognize the building or anything, afterwards when I looked at the little sketch I noticed that the trees along the sidewalk in the sketch were dead and that for the first time, or they seem to be have no leaves, and then they made little forks at the top of ‘em, you know. So I. don't know if I was at that place or not, and the fence may just be overlay or there may now be a fence since that picture was taken. But, uh...there is, I recognize and I acknowledge a certain similarity. between my sketch 1 and 2 and, and the little photograph of the modern building. SG1B _ Okay, as opposed to the ll headquarters building. Yeah, well, there's nothin' there that I can see that's similar, you know. Okay. You know, but I had a modern feeling about this place, about the place I was at. And there's a brick front, and there's a brick front here, you know... . And here's the, you know, the trees across the front sorta.regular. It's obviously got snow on the ground, you know. ; Approved For Release 2000108 afmapferetesetegehsErfI08.00070001-9
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 RRBs ilas00070001-9 In the background here I noticed the caption says car which is seldom moved. There is a gate there, somethin' like that, and I've got some sort of a gate and driveway there. So..eafter it's all over and said and done with I think that there's a similarity to the little building. Okay. Uh, okay, that's sketch 2 is the overhead. Sketch 3, oh, what's his name? Goya, Goyeem, Goyem, huh? Well, his, uh, MMM) is his nickname, SG1B SG1B #31: | | huh?. Okay. Anyway, I find him in some sort of a #31: _ : #66: #31s #66: « , regularly, uh, regularly, in some sort of aL shaped barren room. Now that's the kicker is this like, it's like it's nearly vacant. Like he's the only guy that's got anything in there. He sits with his back to the wall at a desk on some sort of a little platform, not a big one, but some sort of a little platform, and god knows why they got him on a little platform there. Um, he's in a, along a free passageway as though he sits with his back to a partition which separates him from someone bigger. And like he's just an artifact sitting out front that people come and go by and he really.is not a guy that commands a lot of, um, kowtowing anymore. I'm not saying that he ever did, but right now he doesn't really. You. know the, you know the situation that a guy is in that, uh...uh, it's really a funny, funny situation, but like the guy who is just, the colonel or the general who is just in- processing and he still isn't really the general yet. So people still- and he's sitting at a desk next to the outside from the real general and he's reading all this stuff maybe, but people don't have to kowtow to him yet, so they just walk by and talk to the old general. Yeah, it's that sort of a feeling, like he's stuck outside and people really don't bother with him. And that the real power is back behind him there. And as I've written here it's like he's, as if he's not the director but he's like the X0, someone who sits outside the director's office and nobody really bothers with him unless they have a specific Treason to, And he's sitting there, some sort of linear thing like maybe flags even. This about a seventh floor. I've written seventh floor, but it's about the seventh floor window. It's not a...not a superstructure window way high up, but it's not a regular two or three story apartment house, which I thought I was in when I first started was like an apartment, a private residence, private apartment complex. Approved For Release 2000/08 0Rmpeaafapeadifacmban 6000700019
Approved For Release 2000/0 LEC ES Rea FELIS 0007 0001-8 #31: Um, he reads. these plans in the form of pamphlets, someone bigger sits back there. I'm reading here. Okay. That's that. And 4 is an overview of this room which has two windows that look out on the city from about the 7th floor... And I'll write bigger guy's office. I did see a view of safes, when I was tryin' to talk to him... Really sort of mixed up. Uh...didn't have as much luck really communicating. I don't think he wanted really to communicate. It was like you're not gonna have much luck, you know. You're not gonna do very well in this, trying this on me, but you can, you know, you're not gonna do very good. Um, several things really came through. One is that he seemed much older and feeble than I would've expected. You know, he's like, uh, Omar Bradley is, you know, really, really old and feeble type situation. Like me- and then this sort of fit in with where he was sitting, like pushed off on the side. Okay? Uh.. still rather quick but stuck doing some make work until me could be retired type of feeling. A feeling of reminiscing like, but still had some sort of a legitimate job, but he sorta knew it was all bullshit. Reviewing these plans, very conser- very involved in the east-west confrontation and how, and he'd sort of recognize that I, I think, that I vas a poten- tial hostile, with whom, I felt as though I was hostile enemy with whom he was having a very, uh, philisophical and abstract, gentlemanly, very J discussion. Okay? SG1B Uh...what are the other high points? Something to do with training of youngsters. Something to do with security. And then the more and more I worked with, I was like acting, you know, it was like...1 was like provoking him to make something. 'Cause I wasn't getting anywhere. He was sitting at this desk, and I was standing to his right. And I like put my hand down on the table real fast and I said our plans are just as good as your plans. And then he responded, he said no, they can't be, or they, I-forget what I said but they're, they can't be as good as our plans. I said well why aren't they as good as our plans, or why aren't, you know, ours have got, ours are definitely better. And he said some~ thing like no because you haven't, the feeling was like you haven't lived through it, we have, so we know what we're | doing when it comes to this type of defensive thing. And it was like saving things from obli-, you know, from....destruc- tion. I was like feeling things like, uh, the fleeting thought went through my head of how the Soviets evacuated all their major industries to the east during World War II. And they Approved For Release 2000/0 8afasphanifabfe pif 00600070001-9
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 PEE ARE 00070001-0 #31: #663 #31: #66: #31: #663 #31: had it all prioritized and all lined out. And when Germany came across and they fought a defensive battle, and while they were delaying they could evacuate people, and they could evacuate industry to the east. Uh, something to do with. saving...small little clicks...or groups of people, like 50,000 here and 50,000 there, like maybe. civil defense, general civil defense planning. Which probably would .be in the KGB's hands, you know, for the country. And.almost a elitist feeling like the people that were being saved.were somewhat elite in the sense. that maybe they were the educated of the country, or the. powered elite of the country.. Certainly the educated. Maybe. the powered elite of the country to carry on afterwards, you know. Some, you know, and this whole thing was like defense, general defense planning. That's about it. Okay. I think you pretty well covered, uh, the subject matter. That's all I have. Do you have any questions? No. Do you have anything further to add? No. Ha-ha-ha~ha. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : 650 00600070001-9 9