Approved For Release 2000/08CDT
#66 :
#31:
#66 :
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Englemann,
you really didn't ever focus well on him,
but
you had quite good
irnagcrv-about the
location which you
perceived.
ad the feeling
lace where he
doing his real
Yeah,
I
ryfver did- well,
if
I
did see
hir
that he /as here,
and
that this was also a
would usually be employed.
Like when he
thing.
Outside of
tR?
#31:
t
Without being,
uh...a hostage or anything like that.
That
he really would have been here during his normal duty hours,
and because he was,
thi^ was nxs regular work place,
he a"3^'
that maybe were work-,
had worked here before
/
ana
e
>
hv
were now down here at this time talking about this group,
this cluster,
semicircular cluster of boxes, which are,
by
the way,
they're rather large.
They're like... as tall as
this room ceiling
is,
which
is probably
feet,
10 feet tall.
Okay?
And these things might be
3 feet,
and this might be
feet.
So
I had the feeling that he was being,
he had been
called
in here and was being told to talk about these
-uqulplllBTHS
Whatever" weTB—'"in”thes'e boxes,
and
I
had the
*
impression that they were going to be dismantled and taken
away.
#66:
Okay,
Who was asking these questions?
#31:
It wasn't an Iranian,
I
can tell you
that.
It was somebody
else that was not
a member of the group.
Okay?
#66:
And what makes you
say that?
#31:
Just because
I didn't get the typical Iranian vibes
of,
of,
you know... it was a competent discussion that was going on,
it was not some discussion that was being pointed and
ga-ga'd and sign language and,
it was something that was
extremely competent and technical type questions.
Not the
type that you would expect from Iranian students who are not
echnically competent and,
you know,
their answer to check-
ing JLLles is to evacuate the whole filing system,
vou know^i
that type of thing.
It's more,
it was,
I
felt at
ease,
not
threatened,
like
I
had
in the past when
I've been working
with people that are
in
the presence of hostage keepers.
I
felt
at
ease,
but
like impressed with competency,
like
efficiency..
Like people were interrogating me were asking
me all the right questions and using all the right buzz
words.
#66:
Okay,
a technician,
maybe.
#31:
Yeah,
a technical,
instead of just some, what
is
that,
type
of
a thing.
6E0RCT
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#66:
Can we move now to
a sketch of the outside of the building?
#31:
Yeah.,..
Okay,
this is
"X"
on sketch
6 is the position from
which
I was viewing the building.
Okay?
There is a white
line,
it goes off like that.
Appeared to be
a white line
that went off like that.
There appeared
to be a white circle
and there appeared
to be black.
Okay?
I
don't know
if these
two blacks interconnect or not,
but there's black,
like black.
#66:
Okay,
I've turned the tape over now.
#31:
Okay,
some of this is written upside down and everything.
Anyway,
the way
I was looking at
it was this way.
It was
a long rectangular building from top to- along the axis,
top to bottom.
On the far end of
it was like black,
like
a
hardtop parking area,
on the left hand side of it was black V
like a hartop parking area.
There was some sort of
a whit^
circle in the middle of that up closer to the building
in /
the middle,
I
don't know,
like a circular walkway
or some/
thing,
a white line coming down off the end,
and a- vertical,
and
a white line going
a little bit off of horizontal to \
the right.
And this is the building.
That was the one viV/.
Okay?
And the one before that was-,
I have
two more to do,\
7 and 8,
okay.
'
#66:
I believe this one you said you were standing on the roof
or something?
#31:
Yeah.
No,
not this one.
Well,
okay,
this one.
I'll make
this one.
There is... right
in the foreground,
on like
jrtical pole,
like
I
thought maybe
a flagpole.
. .you know,
was like right up here,
right up close to me.
And that's
the roof edge... and this is the
roof.
And
I had
a line
of
trees
on my right... and
a line of trees on my distant
left.
That comes back the.
. .horizontal
is wrong,
here but...
and
I had the feeling that back down here
I could see
a
building of... of some type.
J^n^build^jjjj^^^
st
the trees.
And that this was’Tssen^l^un^open grass. ..
is should actually come like this...
#66:
Okay,
that's standing on the roof looking out with the trees
to your left and right.
#31:
Yeah,
#7,
right... I don't know what was
in
there.
This was
covered by... at least some sort of trees,
because
I
had the
feeling
I was peeking through trees at the corner of that
open area.
And that's really about
it.
The only other
thing
I
had-,
before the actual progression on that transcript
here goes... and then comes
7 and then goes
6,
cause this of
course as
I was
cornin'
out.
#66:
Okay,
looking
at your drawings,
now,
do you have any recol-
lection as to the building that you were in?
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#31:
A
#66
!
#31:
#66
:
#31:
It
is the one.
,
. the only thing
I
can remember about
it
is
that
it is the one outside of which
is the raised box...
would be on the
"X"
in
7.
I'm just putting the
"X"
there,
because
I didn't see or feel^ything like~ttT»U.
It's
the
raised Up thing that
they-fiad the machine gu$ on when
I
worked a session and enoed up with two
guns in the
•corner
of
a field,
this being the corner of
a field.
Okay,
and
I was coming,
I remember coming,
working this wood line
up here saying that there was a trench with troops in
it,
not
troops
in
it,
but with some firing positions along here,
and then that there was
a big box like thing out here.
#66:
Okay,
#31:
#66
:
r
Okay?
It's tucked
in right into the
the corner,
but that's
the building that I'm thinking of.
Okay,
fine.
And then also in
a different session
I
had an
interior
balcony ,
stairwell
on
the right with some sort of
a weird
statuary sitting
in the middle of the
lobby,
and that's of
-course where
I started this session.
Okay,
and again you felt clearly that's where you wound
up,
although...
Now,
I
have one other question that
I want
to ask you.
You had talked about Englemann being in this
location,
you thought he was there,
talking about these
boxes or cabinets or whatever they were.
Do you
feel that
he is-,
was only
in this building temporarily,
or that this
is the building where he usually
is?
I
didn't,
yeah,
I think this is the. ..I
did not
feel,
I'll
tell you what
I didn't
feel,
what
I... I didn't really address
whether or not he really belonged here or not all the time,
but
I
did not feel
like he'd been dragged a long way,
I
didn't feel that he was anyplace out of the usual or the
ordinary.
Nothing special about his location.
Special about
his activities,
yeah,
but
I didn't feel like that he had
been moved all the way across the compound,
or that he'd
been taken to some far away place and was doing this talking.
I
felt like he was pretty close to where he usually would
be found.
Okay.
And we find him on the Embassy compound
in Teheran/
Yeah,
that's where
I
think he
is.
turf.
I
find him on familiar
#66:
Okay,
fine.
Anything else you'd like to add?
#31:
No.
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TAB
Approved For Release 2000/08/07
: CIA-RDP96-00788R001 0001 00001-0