Approved For Release 200C #10.5: #6.95: #10.5: #6.5: #10.5: #6.5: #10.5: #6.5: #10.5: #6.5: #10.5: Approved For Release 200 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000800130001-0 That's what I said. I don't understand. Could he be seen from inside? / In other words, people inside there would watch him? ; Yeah. Yeah. That's what I had the feeling that / this guy was doing, sitting in the window. Uh huh. He was looking out or watching. He was either casually looking down this walkway to whatever's going on out there or he was looking at this guy for the purpose of like covering him or something or like paying attention to him. I just wanted to doubled check this. Yeah. The guy is ten feet in the darkness but he can still be seen from the front of the building. If he was like another ten feet, you wouldn't be able to see him, but he's just back in here on the left side. Just within visual range. PAUSE So the guy in the bay window, 'cause that's what you described it as, a bay window. Yeah, its a is observing him. Yeah. Okay. Good. PAUSE Or at least, he's able to observe him. Yeah. (Not audible). PAUSE All right. Six is... . Six is like looking back towards the doors. That was funny, because every time I'd turn around, standing in front of that thing, . . . There are windows, but what either one big one. . . or divided into two or something. But I had the feeling it was... not grated, but just pane windows, but you know, large, public type windows. And that here was. and that this guy was sitting .. . this way.on it. Med ed let ah P96-00788R000800130001-0
Approved For Release 200@ HP RDP96-00788R000800130001-0 #10.5: With his head cocked so he could look out the window. Okay and somehow that's set back in behind that and then there’s another one back in here. And here's the other one. PAUSE And those are the doors and then here in the foreground would be this table-top. Not, I, you know, . . . I had the real feeling that it was more like a service counter than a big. if than a big secretary's desk. That it was more like a service counter. A receptionist counter or something. Okay. Rather than just a single ’ wooden desk or something like. that. PAUSE All right. Now where to go. Seven. PAUSE Okay. I can't see where its .. on the left side of the room. Okay. But looking into this room the way I did. .. I had the feeling that.there were . and there's the corner of it. Okay. That. . . here were ~ what did I say - three guys. A guy there and a guy there and a guy here. Sitting and talking, interchanging across this table. And that I had the feeling that there was like bookshelves along that wall. And that along this wall, was bookshelves. Just something — like a conference room. Okay. No desks or anything like that, it just appeared that there was this long ~~ light colored table. It reminded me of the one aes we have out here. Okay, sitting and talking and then here windows. [I guess I can probably draw that there and that there. Okay. PAUSE : Okay. Now what did I say that. . . I said that H that was maybe the second room down the side hall- i way. So, we would end up with . . Oh, #66, I forgot where. . 15 1 Criastommrseryengemere: Approved For Release 2000/0867 Cl “RDP96-00788R000800130001-0
P96-00788R000800130001-0 #10.5: And then we would end up with .. . Okay. This is the hallway. There was doors there. Okay. Some. . . I'd say it was Second room down this thing. Okay. Like that, that's. I just didn't catch anything when I went by that. I got office feeling. But empty. PAUSE Okay, with the two guys at it. Sitting like that. Somewhere else down this room — down this hall, where it is I don't know. I'm going to separate it just so its separated. I had the feeling of a more appropriate . . not more, more office type place. A bigger office type place. I had the feeling that the door was set on this Side of it and that somewhere around here was a service counter type of an affair. Okay. And that in the back here were several desks, such and several chairs outside the door, like waiting chairs. Like, what I thought, I thought I was feeling like a asa_processing prace or something where people wduld come wait for. . ou know, for a long period and then they'd be called and they'd walk in and they'd get their paper stamped or whatever the hell it is and then they'd leave. Okay. PAUSE Okay. Put the "X's" where I saw the people. And four, three here and one guy outside. What's that, that's Sketch 8. PAUSE And this is a waiting. . counter. Okay. I don't know if they're any chairs inside that little thing or not. All right. I didn’t see anybody ; upstairs. I had the feeling though that something 7 was amiss. Something was peculair about it because - this is what I wanted, what I was talking about. PAUSE That was the end of the hallway. Now, I had the feeling that there was a landing out there. Okay. In other words, if you walked down the end of the hallway, walk out the end of the hall- way, you got to this landing, you'd be able to look down in the lobby. 16 cagey Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : ¥8788R000800130001-0
#66: #10. #66: #66: #10. #66: #10. #66: #10. Approved For Release 200 Okay. So, you don't know which end of the hallway you are in when you see that though, okay, I understand what you're saying. Well no. You got me down to this end of the hall- way, then you told me to go upstairs where I think I got up to a second level. Yeah. And when I got up I came up on one of the outside wings of this hall. Okay. Okay. Way at the other end. And when I got up there, I had the feeling that that interior inside the end, the center end of the hallway, was open. Right. I looked down on . . the center lobby. I had the feeling I could look down on the center lobby. And look down on the top of this square thing that sat in the middle of the lobby, “777 rte ere cereerenn, Because I got down there and when I got down there | Okay. Okay. Okay. So, and that there's stairs down there. Which I hadn't seen before. Which I hadn't seen before. Okay. There's an open window at center. PAUSE Okay, the reason is because when I got there, it was as though I was looking down over some sort of a rail lash up, like this and down below me I could see this square thing. Okay, and I suddenly got the . . I got the feeling that this thing was hollow. Okay. And that there was some sort of a burr in it here. And this was where the two guys Wertewerdminbag, like that. PAUSE SE ped por 17 *DP96-00788R000800130001-0 Core rs anew nan ies orto Se ee amen ue ae es ainie Sat ne Sc wee agen wearmoe sea en enmmecgte
Approved For Release 2000 '-RDP96-00788R000800130001-0 #10.5: For what it is, okay. All right, that was about it. Did I leave anything out from the first place? #66: Okay, before you move to the second building, I want to ask you a flat out question. #10.5: Yeah. #66: Did you see any people in the other building that you . NEXT TAPE - SIDE C #10.5: Flat out? #66: Yeah, we ran out of tape just a minute ago and I wanted to repeat the question. Before you go on to this other building that you described as Area 2, in your examination of the first area, did you see any personnel that you would identify with as being hostage personnel? #10.5: No At least in the areas of the building that Was in. I was trying to find people, because that became apparent during the session, that's what you... . what was of interest. And I was trying to find people and only these people acting casually, but normally, non-hostage type things | are the only ones that I came across in that session When I got to the second floor, .. . I was getting pretty loose at that time, so, I don't know. My coverage of the second floor was not good. I know that. #66: Okay. #10.5: Okay. I was beginning to’ lose my grasp, I guess. #66: Okay, let's move on to the second area. #10.5: Okay, second area is starting with Sketch ll. PAUSE #66: Okay. #10.5: What did I see? PAUSE Approved For Release 2000/08" KRDP96-00788R000800130001-0
Approved For Release 2000/08/07" « CIA. RDP96- 00788R000800130001-0 #10.5: #10.5: I am very unsure about the setting imagery because of course I had . . I was using the photograph outline as I had seen it to be my "beacon" if you will. You know to focus that in my mind. Yes, I had Showed you an overhead picture of the area and you were trying to focus on the area that I had designated to you as Area Number 2. STD, Yeah. The only thing outside of the building that I felt was that on .. . in a center of the building somewhere near that parking lot . okay, what would be the center entranceway to the building, in the middle, in its middle, is hard to describe. Some small steps up, okay, to get to it. But the feeling I'nad-was that there was a wall out. Okay. And the only reason I'm putting this down is because then, you know, if in fact, its there, you know, it would lend some feeling for what I ended up with later on. But that there is a down walk right alongside it. How do I describe it? I think you said There's a way to get into the basement. “One or two down basement steps which are on either side of the up first floor step on the very front of the building. So. that like if you were walkin arking lot, wanted to just go into the basement, VY hang . . shift to your right and you'd miss the up steps and you'd walk down into the basement. And that that's separated by some kind of a wall so that people don't fall all the way down the basement level. So we end up with this up steps and we end up with down steps separated by a wall. Okay and that's where you found yourself when you first started focusing on this second area? Yes. Okay. Okay. And some sort of grass and I. . or something, you know. Its a little out of the normal beaten path, but somehow the sidewalk goes over there and you can just miss this wall. You can take a jog to the right side of the wall and walk down Approved For Release 2000/08/07-+ Cl&-RDP96-00788R000800130001-0
Approved For Release 2000288 4-RDP96-00788R000800130001-0 steps.. into a pit built in next to the building which contains the stairs and an entrance of some kind. I did not see any entrance but I had the feeling that that's what the purpose of it was for. Okay. And I also had the feeling that’ it was duplicated on the other side of the building. | the other side of the stairway. Of the up stairway so then we got to another down stairway down there. PAUSE Okay. That's all I can do. Its just. #66: When was it this dormitory feeling came to you? #10.5: It came to me after I got inside. I had the feeling that .. . that the only imagery [I had was one of a. . I took to be a female person. #66: Um hm. #10.5: Sitting with . . Oh, you know what a babushka is? Not a babushka. A. . babushka is a shawl in Russian, I think. Grandma. We use it as a shawl. Kerchief over her head, is what I'm talki about. so #66: Okay. #10.5: I had a feeling it was a light kerchief. What she was doing, I don't know. I just saw this feeling that it was a female person, image, in a white #66: What floor was she on? . #10.5: I have no idea. This is where I got lost, getting in there. #66: Okay. #10.5: I saw that and then I had the feeling of sleeping area. Of like four or five beds, GI type beds side by side. And then I had the feeling of a of the woman huddled up where she was like. this and she had her feet in a white porcelain metal. . thing. And I had a feeling of tile around there, like a washroom. You know, like a . . almost like a shower type place. You know, it was enough tile - I had the feeling like she might be in a | dormitory shower you'd expect. An almost public shower. You know what I mean. 20 Approved For Release 2000/08/077:..CIA -RDP96-00788R000800130001-0 '
Loan ew Rie a Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000800130001-0 # 66: #10.5: #66: #10.5: #66: #10.5: Approved For Release 2000/ Okay: Where people of the same sex share the same facility for like locker room work and everything. Okay. And that's all I had. I had no idea where that was. These were just very fleeting images. PAUSE You know how when you're cold, you bundle up; you're shivering, you hold your arms across your chest? Okay. You keep your legs real close together, you know? PAUSE And she was wearing dark clothes. Dark bundled up clothes. She looked bundled up is what she looked like with some sort of a heavy thing around her hips. And I couldn't tell if she was wearing a skirt or if she was wearing pants that had been pulled up at the legs. Okay. My art when it comes to people aint good at all. Ha ha. Okay, She was sitting on some sort of a long counter that was just high enough that her feet would touch the ground. Okay, it wasn't like she was sitting on a short thing, like a sofa. You see what I mean? Okay. Its like . . . It was tile. There was tile in this place. You know, I had the feeling of .. of tile and . . light porcelain over the walls, you know the walls. I felt the place and it was like fow do I describe it? It was like this woman was sitting in a bloody steam bath. You know how when you're in a sauna, they've got benches that are actually part of the wall that are not covered with anything, they're waterproof, they're tile? You know, they're just slick, If you sat on them bare cheeked, you'd slide all the way down the end of it. And I got the idea that she was like sitting on something like that. 96-00788R000800130001-0
Approved For Release 2000/88 ne #66: 710.5: #66: #10.5: Approved For Release 2000/08/0 DP96-00788R000800130001-0 Okay. You know, that it was tile itself. That it was like a ledge built right into the wall and that it was like a bathroom or showering type of facility. All I can do is just write down these impressions because there's no real;tile ~- much light tile all over. Woman, cold. Shivering. Sitting.. . with feet in . . . I had the distinct feeling it was hot water. You know, like people will do that to warm their feet up. At first I had the feeling that she was sick, but then I had the feeling that she was cold. Okay. And there's much, much tile all over the place. And its like a spacious locker, room, shower, bathroom, feeling. Okay. Um hm. All right. Again, I ask you what floor was this on? I can't tell you. I don't know. By this time I was just getting images. I didn't know where I was. I had no lock in, you know, I had no . The other building, I was pretty sure that I was you know perceiving right along, you know, in a line that I could reasonably piece together but now I was just -- I could have been all over the building or I could have been somewhere else for all I know. Somebody that knows a lot more about the building will have to figure it out. Okay. The other one I had, Thirteen, was. . a. or rather that's the same one that I saw the first time or not, I don't know. I had the feeling of a woman with a white kerchief on her head. Then I had the feeling of a woman with a white kerchief on her head bundled up in clothes with her feet in hot water, same or different, I don't know. Okay. And that's when I got this one here, the feeling of the tile all over the place. Okay. Here I had a feeling of a room that had apd number,four or five GI beds. Are you saying that there are only four or five in the room, or that you saw four or five GI beds? -00788R000800130001-0
“4 el Approved For Release 2000/0 RDP96-00788R000800130001-0 #10.5: All I saw was four or five GI beds. Okay. I never try to say there are only four in the room. For all I know, they might have been the only four occupied and that's why I saw the beds. #66: Okay. #10.5: Now, whether or not they're occupied or not, I can't tell you that either but that might have been what attracted them to me. . . over possibly others. Okay. #66: Okay. You have a tendency to look at your pictures f; and think about if there's anything else in the Ps . uv room is S #10.5:,Sure. Sure. Okay. I had the feeling of some windows here. And I have a feeling that the | | windows are bigger now that I think about it. Windows were like amost down to head left to meta frame GI type beds. All right. PAUSE And that's all. That's all. There. I can't tell you if they're occupied or not. And I think that's about that time is when I started developing a dormitory flavor that there was not necessarily a dormitory, but that it was being ised as a make-shift dormitory and that possibly its where the female of the group were being . were allowed to live, or were living. You know. I had the feeling like this woman, Number 12, had been outside and had done her thing for a number of hours and was colder than hell and had come pack in off of her shift and was sitting with herl’ feet in hot water. That type of thing. #66: Okay, are you saying that you're feeling for the woman with her feet in the hot water is not one of the hostages? #10.5: Correct. Not one of the hostages. My feeling for her is that she's one of students. #66: Okay. #10.5: Okay. And anyway, the section, at least maybe a section of this building which may have had another public service or at least a Embassy Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CHA oye 0800130001-0
Approved For Release 2000 #66: #10.5: #10.5: OB aie DP96-00788R000800130001-0 compound service, may have been you know, not official. Like support service. Like you know, what do you want to call. it, like public shower- ing area and. . and possibly a sick room, you know for Embassy people that get sick and that type of thing. With the beds and everything lik that, was being used as a make-shift dormitory because it wasn't good for anything else. You know, because they had people in there sleeping. And that maybe it was the female segregated par or the place where females were Segregated to Sleep. Okay. PAUSE And that's all I got, #66, on Number 2. You seemed to have a little bit of trouble by this time trying to focus on Yeah. These were spontaneous feelings. There was no continuity to them. This was imagery. Twelve was imagery, Thirteen was imagery and the idea of up and down steps was imagery. Okay. But. They were not connected. You know, there was no continuity to them. As I had in the earlier Target Number 1. You know, it was a case of going foot by foot by foot or going to a place, turning around and looking back, seeing what it looked like that way. Okay. Didn't have any of that control. I was out of control. Okay. Anything you want to add? PAUSE Approved For Release 2000/08/07 2CIA-RDP96-00788R000800130001-0 epee ee ome es we : Be ee anemone
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