Approved For Release 0s MEU E, Fopse-covasrooot 00010001-0 ww #663 +20 #31: #66: #31: +23 #663 #31: +25 #66: SGFOIA3 attention now on G Te abou em. PAUSE STAT PAUSE Are you ready for another question? Hmmm. PAUSE Hmmmmm . PAUSE Yeah. Move now, over the site. Move now over the site. . . holding in your mind the thought, how can we find this site? Concentrating on the thought, how can we find this site? Move over the site and ask yourself, how can we find this site? PAUSE And what is your impression? PAUSE I'm working. Drifting, trying to find something. PAUSE The name LYNCHBURG - out of nowhere, while I was looking for terrain, All right. Which direction from Lynchburg. Approved For Release 2003/09/1 ¢: CIA-RDP96-00788R000100010001-0 ’ It; i) Hi
+27 Approved For Release 2003/09/ #31: #66: #31: #66: ' tbe fe-o07eeRo001 00010001-0 } PAUSE I want to say Northwest. PAUSE On the other side, the reverse side of the slope is a ridge, tapered Southeast towards where I think Lynchburg is. It apers .. a low flat. Not a ridge, like a . . like a big, flat plain. Tapers down Southeast. And up on the... . high up on that ridge, near where it intersects. . the ridge I'm talking about, is a cabin. Just a one or two room cabin. Little wood cabin. Maybe very ramshackled. And it sits on the edge of the flat so that it looks down into the neighboring valley. And that valley is curved like a scimitar. Like a crescent. . . because at its base, overlooking where that house is, is a long, flat part of the ridge slowly getting lower and lower. . curves out like a flange. . away from the house. And it looks .. so the valley looks curved. Where is the target in relation to the house? Farther Northwest from this cabin over the edge of the ridge which itself recedes relative even height. I'm sorry, North but North of it. North, Northwest of it. But then the ridge precedes like Northwest - the one I was on. And then it goes down and it curves back to the North again. North, Northwest. That's the curve that I was talking about to begin with. PAUSE Okay, I want you to take on minute now to focus on this target. Don't talk to me. Take one minute now. Total focus and concentration on the target area. Let all the data assimilate. PAUSE All right at this time now I would like to bring your attention to focus back into this room. I want you to take a big deep breath. Move your arms, move your legs. Sit up and draw those perceptions that you've had. PAUSE Approved For Release 2003/09/10 :<CIA-RDP96-00788R000100010001-0 Cfeprr
Approved For Release 2003/09, GA VED |96-007eeR0001 00010001-0 #31: #66: #31: #66: #31: #66: #31: #66: #31: #663 #31: I had another... Yes. Another one... PAUSE I have a feeling of these big flat bolders jutting out. A big flat bolder. Like a major part of the ridge, jutting out, other side. And where is that in relation to the sight? I think its right there. All right. I think its somewhere near the .. the "v" thing. Or it may be a refined percpetion of the "Vv". I want to say that its like two-layered. Like a big pedistal or a seat. There's a bump high up and then it comes down and then it goes down in- side of the ridge. Okay. Fix that image in your mind. And for some reason, I can't... The key . I think I see ...a..I just said before, it keeps coming back. That laying in the treetop is a white flash. Its not white, its off-gray. But it is reflective. It does show up but its not laying flat on the treetops. Its laying tilted in the tree tops. So if its not looked at from a relfective side within. . . on the sun, you don't see it. You would look down at it and it wouldn't reflect at you. As example, its more hungup in the trees vertically than humg up in the trees horizontally. From what cardinal direction must one look at this site to find it? Must go up the valley. And, . . must go from North. . . South, Southeast to North, Northwest » « « up to this valley. . . in order to see it. You can only see the thing when you're coming up the valley and on the other side .. . It is on the other side of this rock formation. You see 6 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : 'H'| 3 a CFORE
Approved For Release 00319 6 U Lebess-oorsanooo 00010001-0 the rock formation first. I think. And on the up valley side of the rock formation, you'll see this white flash. But you have to go up the valley. If you go across the ridges it will be hidden in the up valley trees. . . in the up slope trees and it'll never. been seen. And if you go down the ridges across ridge, you'll never see it either because its . . . on the up slope side of the tree that its hanging in. So you would pass over it before you saw it. You have to go up the valley. And you have to be on the South side of the valley. Because if you're even on the North side of the valley going up it, it hangs in the tree looking away from that side. You can only see it from the South side. #66: Very good. PAUSE #31: One is there. The other one isn't there; he's somewhere else. PAUSE PAUSE I have... STAT PAUSE But he's not in . .I don't want to say that - near the airplane. He's somewhere else. #66: How did he get somewhere else? #31: I can only say that he . . got out... first. PAUSE 7 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100010001-0
Approved For Release 003/04 Ul bol oe-corsero00% 00010001-0 PAUSE (CRYING) #66: Talk about your perceptions. Talk about your perceptions. PAUSE #31: (Long sigh.) #66: Take deep breaths. PAUSE #31: Ah... PAUSE #66: That's right, big deep breaths. PAUSE #31: #66: #31: #66: #31: #663: 8 Approved For Release ~ SECRET 00010001-0 ). i | STAT STAT
Approved For Release soos Gy EpPoc-oo7eeRo00 00010001-0 dl #31: STAT #66: ° That's fine. You are working very hard on this target. That's to be expected. That's fine. #31: I hope its some good. PAUSE #66: There is nothing that you have said that can be disputed based on what I know about the incident. PAUSE #31: STAT — PAUSE #31: But that's sort of an open area; there's no - . . there may be trees nearby but this bolder should be visible from the . . from the sky. STAT Cd PAUSE 9 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100010001-0 CECRET
Approved For Release sansa Ul los corsazo00% 00010001-0 #31: Possibly farther. Its not way . . Its up on the hillside. But that's . . that's misleading ‘cause that shows that its farther down. Tts not, its up here. #66: Give me a North/South arrow on the . . Map. #31: North is this way. PAUSE La la la la. Okay. #663 Okay. #31: And what I'm saying bout this thing is... #66: Which way to Lynchburg? #31: This way. This is the feeling I had. I hate doing this kind of thing, but the feeling I had was that Lynchburg was down this sloping thing. Okay. #66: Write: "to Lynchburg". #31: And that over here is another valley. Okay. PAUSE And that like here is where that cabin is. #663 All right, where's the rock slide? #31: Okay. The rock slide is . . rock slide and/or this funny rock, that I was telling you about, is in here. #66: What's the number of this page so we know what we're talking about? #31: All right, four, five, six. #663 Page Six, Drawing Six, okay. #31: Okay. Somewhere. . this brings me toa. . some interesting thing. I'll say rock slide, or . . and let me draw you this other shape. Is like .. . Okay. Its like that. PAUSE 14 Approved For Release 2003/09/1 SECRET 00010001-0
Approved For Release 700810 9F UA bebcc-corsercoot 00010001-0 Okay. PAUSE You see what I mean but a funny shape rock? #66: Um hm. #31: Its like a... its like a... Its big. I mean its . . forty-five feet tall. That type of big. Okay. And its gray and its got all the weather marks, you know, its very, very irregular. Its not nearly as irregular as this makes it look to be, but its... #66: Um hm. #313 (Not audible) beehive or something that's poked into the side of the hill. #66: Um hm. #31: If that and that and the rock slide are together or like if the rock slide is tucked in the corner of this thing, I have no. . I don't know. I can't tell. First I had this rock slide. This could be manufactured. It sort of came out of nowhere to me. I wasn't puzzling over the rock Slide. I got this... #6632 Um hm. #31: That's seven. And that is also on the South ridge. Okay. #66: Well, I don't understand what you mean. #31: This being North ridge. .. #66: Okay. #31: This being the South ridge. #663 Okay. #31: Okay. So its also in here in the area of the rock slide on Number Six. #66: Okay. PAUSE #31: And of course, this is , all trees here. All Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100010001-0 15 aa Bl
Approved For Release 2003 6b RE porsc-ooreeRo00 00010001-0 #66: #31: #663 #31: #66: #31: vight. All up and down and around it. All right. PAUSE Okay, is there anything else that you feel you'd like to draw before going to look at the map? Yeah, well, I'm trying to think of where it fits » . and if I said it or not so I can reference the tape, but I don't think I said it. I want to say that at the Southern end of this crack here between the two ridges that there isa... I'll give this one a plus or minus. Okay. PAUSE Okay. There's that and there's that. All right. We're moving a little bit East? A little bit East, yeah. And that this in turn is split. Okay. Like the valley makes a fork on the East side of that, like there's a hill. There's a hill or something there that splits that terrain feature. Or it splits that valley. Its not a big valley. Its not something huge. Its like typically you'd find in the Shenandoahs where you've only got. . total ridge height is maybe 800, 900 feet and the valley floor is , you know, it just comes down into a knotch. You know, it doesn't come down into some big sweeping tidal plain or anything like that. It comes down into a pretty well defined knotch. And you know, maybe a couple hundred yards across. And even bumpy then, you know. Slowly knotching together. Not. . Not some really huge cleft. Okay. At this time I'd like to take you in and look at the map while you still have the target on your mind and we'll tape record that so that you can continue to talk and I'1l allow you to look at the map. I want to say that, the sec. .. the guy. . that is not at the aircraft crash site, is some- where Bast... . East of the crash site and on the other side, like over here on the North side of this valley or maybe on the North side of this terrain feature. Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CL8-RDP96-00788R000100010001-0 CECRET
Approved For Release 09 OUR Loos-ooreonoco 00010001-0 #66: #31: #66: #31: #66: #31: #663 #31: #66: #31: Um hm. I mean on the South. On the South side of the North ridge or on the South side of the next ridge to the East. Okay. That's what I'm trying to say. PAUSE Okay. And I'll write here on Number 6,"to Lunchburg”. This is a. . Its like a... like a ridge going this way but for some reason it twists around and then it. . then it just gently goes down like that. Its like some long spur off the ridge. Okay. And its a gentle one. Its like trees and maybe a cabin and I seem to think that there were open areas in it. Gentle slope. Gentle sloping ridge, spur or whatever. Going this way. PAUSE Oh, all right. You want. . Let me do this thing that I was telling you about. Five, Six -- that's Seven. Eight real quick. PAUSE Is this thing that's laying in the trees. Its like . . we had a cluster of trees, right. You know the down hill trees here? Um hm. And then there's up hill trees up here like this. This thing is like its laying like this. I'm sorry, its not laying like that. Its laying like this. See. Um hm. Its laying down the tree like its caught in the branches and laying vertical instead of laying horizontal on top of the trees. Okay. Like it hit the tree and then it slid half way Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96- 0100010001-0 7 CECHET
#66: #31: #66: #31: #6632 #31: #66; #31: #66: #31: #66: #31: #66: #31: #66: #31: #66: Approved For Release e001 0K Le feos corsenooo 00010001-0 down in and under the. . . I understand. Its dangling from the upper part rather than laying flat across. Sure. But it can be seen. But it can be seen if flying. .. if aircraft. . if looked down at from the top of the ridge, the South ridge. . going in a Northerly direction, because you can tell its hanging on the North . . on the South side of the tree. Okay. All right. So if you flew up the North side it would be masked by the tree its hanging in. All right. And if you flew down. . the South ridge it would be masked by the trees that are up hill of it. Because its hanging down here. Okay. So, the only way to see it is to go perpendicular across the valley. Okay. Flying from. . Flying from South to North across this valley. Flying South to North there is an object hanging in the tree on the South side of the tree. Right. Down the ridge. Right. | PAUSE On the up side of the ridge. On the up side of the ridge. On the up ridge side. Okay, going back to this picture, I fly .. - 18 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 SECRET 00010001-0