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III METHOD OF APPROACH (U)
(U)
SRI conducted a 27-hour RV experiment beginning at 0800 on May
7,
1987.
The
viewer provided data in four different work periods spaced at 8-hour intervals.
The details of
the experiment are described below.
A.
(U)
Selection of a Remote Viewer
1 SRI selected Viewer V372
to participate
in this experiment
because of his/her 10-year experience
as
a viewer.
In
1979,
V372 was
calibrated at
SRI
as part of a
"technology"
transfer investigation and
found
to possess an RV ability. 10
Since
then,
V372 has participated
in
approximately 300^1
' RVs.
Since
SRI does not have access
to most
of those data,
we conducted a second calibration series,
as part of
another program,
during FY 1986.
In
the
1986 calibration
series,
the target material was
fsites within
a half-hour drive from
SRI.
A protocol was used
that was
similar
to the one described above,
and a total
of
12 RV sessions
were conducted over two weeks.
Remote viewing results
of the series were
found to be statistically significant and Figure
1 shows one
of
the
three
most
successful
sessions.
It
is beyond the scope of this report
to
describe
this calibration series
in detail,
but
the two-other successful
responses were of the same quality as shown
in Figure
1.
B.
(U) Target Material
s
-* The primary target was
the ATA facility*!
In
particular,
the accelerator itself was
targeted during operation with an
external beam.
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i.
We have also identified targets of lesser interest
in the
environment.
We have designated a wind-power electric generator farm at
Altamont Pass but adjacent
to\^
J
as
a secondary target,
and the
- main complex,
which
is farther away geographically but
is
functionally associated withL
^ as
a tertiary target.
The
intent of this RV experiment was
to obtain as much
information as possible about
the target environment
in general and ATA
external beam operation
in particular.
C.
(U) Experiment Protocol
\
Viewer
372 and a viewing monitor were aware
that
the target
material was
of \
significance and was
located within
the
greater San Francisco Bay area.
They were told that an individual
\
f
—^described by name and Social Security number^
was
in
the target area during the viewing sessions,
and that
two members
of
the
SRI
staff' (known
to V372
and
the monitor)
would serve
as
a
"beacon”
and would
be
at
the
specific
target of
interest between 2200 hours on May
7 and 0800 hours
on May
8,
1987.
(The purpose of
the
"beacon" person
is
to define
the
target
area.
Our past experience has
shown
that viewers
rarely describe
the experiences of
the
"beacon.")
Other than
this,
all
aspects and details
of
the experiment were withheld from V372 and the
monitor
.
i
The
San Francisco Bay Area
is rich
in
f
target possibilities.
For example,
there are many aerospace companies,
semiconductor manufacturing facilities,
particle accelerators
(e.g,
,
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory complex,
Stanford Linear Accelerator),
radar
installations,
military air fields,
and Naval bases.
Thus
it was J:elt
that
to have
the viewer know that
the
target was of
gi
interest
and was
in
the greater Bay Area would not compromise the experiment.
f
% Four sessions were conducted to provide
information
at
approximately 8-hour
intervals during May
7,
1987.
The time and
circumstances
are
as
follows:
(1) 0800
May
7—V372
was
asked
to
describe
the
geographical
area,
and
the gestalt
of the area of
interest.
He/she was
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I
also
asked
to
provide
as
much
detail
as
possible
in
real
time
(i.e.,
at
0835),
and
was
targeted
upon
the
sponsor's
on-site
representative.
At
this
time,
the
representative
was
sleeping
(approximately
miles
fr0?
tV
f
ft
f
r having
been awake the entire previous night.
(2) 1010 May
7—V372
was
asked
to
describe
details
and activity
at
the
site
designated
by
the
sponsor's
on-site
representative as
of 0000 hours May
(the previous night)
(3) 1600 May
7—V372 was
asked
to
describe
details
and activity
in real
time
at
the
site designated by
the sponsor's on-site
representative.
At
this
time,
this
individual
was
eating
dinner
(approximately
2 miles
from ^
(4) 2400 May
7—V372 was
asked
to
describe
details
and activity
at
the
site designated by two
SRI personnel
in real
time.
\
;> During each session,
V372's responses were tape recorded and
he/she was encouraged
to draw details whenever possible.
Drawings are
contained
in Appendix
A,
and Appendix B contains verbatim transcripts
of
the
last
two sessions and portions of the first
two.
(Because
of
technical difficulties,
most of
the taped record of the first
two viewings
was
lost.
Since
the remaining data are
intact and since the drawings
from
the
first two viewings are complete,
this gap
is not significant.)
D.
(U)
Analysis Technique
>As discussed
in Section
II,
quantitative analysis
poses problems.
Any analysis
of remote viewing data
must be accomplished within the context
of
a mission statement,
A system
that
is designed
to demonstrate remote viewing
is
inadequate
to enable an
|
"
... assessment and
vice versa.
A generalized analysis system that
allows
for a defined a priori mission statement has been developed under
another program, 9 and
a brief overview of
it
follows.
1.
(U)
Definitions
ij
'^The most
important aspect of any RV data analysis
is
the definition of the target and the RV response.
For this experiment,
the target
is defined
as
a fuzzy
set of target elements
T[ek,p.k,wk]
.
The
kth element,
ex,
in the
set
is defined by
its membership value,
px. on the
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*
closed interval
[0,1],
The
ju always represents
the degree
to which
ek is
present
at
the
target.
For example,
suppose that
the target
is the ATA
facility,
and the target element under consideration
is
the concept of
"testing shielding effectiveness."
Its membership value,
which
is
determined subjectively,
is 0.2
indicating that only 20% of that concept
applies
to
this
target.
To allow for differing missions,
wk is an
arbitrary weighting factor.
A*
.simulation requires
that
certain elements be more important
than others.
For example,
the
-energy aspect
is very important and
is assigned
a weight
of
compared
to
a cooling tower with a weight
of
0.5.
|
The RV response
is similarly defined as
a fuzzy set
of response elements R[ek,nk,wk]
.
The membership values
for response
elements,
however,
have
a somewhat different meaning than those for target
elements.
The*
represent
the analyst's assessment as
to
the degree of
presence
(on
the closed
interval
[0,1])
of
ek in the response.
For
declarative statements,
jtk -
1 unless V372 volunteers
a specific
or
implied
importance
to
the overall target.
A degree of interpretation
is allowed
for non-declarative statements by letting
p.k <
1.
The response wk
are
identical
to
the
target
wk.
For
the purpose
of analysis,
all
target and
response
information
is defined
as
the fuzzy sets T and
R,
respectively.
'
k We have defined Accuracy as
the percent of
the
target
material
that was described correctly by a response.
Likewise,
we have
defined Reliability
(of
the viewer)
as
the percent
of the
response that was
correct.
The FM
is
the product
of
the
two;
to obtain a high FM,
a viewer
has
to describe a large portion of
the
target material correctly
in as
parsimonious
a way as possible.
In fuzzy set
terminology,
these
quantities
for
the jth target/response pair are as
follows:
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and
Accuracy^
=
aj
= s w.CRjnTi),
k
E Wk Tit k
k
Reliability
=
r
j
j
E wk '(R,nT,) k
k
2 Wk R
j k
Figure of Merit^
M.
=
a.
x
r
The sum over k
is called
the
sigma count
in fuzzy set terminology,
and
is
defined as
the
,sum of
the membership values,
ji,
for the elements
of
the
response,
targ&t,
or their intersection— i.e.,
Rj,
Tj, and
(RjOTj)
,
respectively.
2.
(U) Target and Response Data
, The universe of target/response elements are drawn
from the May
7,
1987,
ATA experiment.
We have defined three element
categories;
functions,
relationships,
and objects.
These categories are
used
to guide
the weighting factors
(i.e.,
the default weights are
1.0,
0.50,
and 0.25,
respectively),
and are used as multipliers of
the relative
weights
to form the
wk.
(U) With such
a complex response,
a number of options
are
available
for
analysis.
Rather than analyzing the data scan by scan,
all scans were considered together to
provide the response input to the universe of elements.
(U)
Table
1 shows the universe of target/response elements and the formal
definition of T and R.
The various scaling weights are shown in parentheses adjacent to the
appropriate
factors.
The
relative
weights
are
derived
from
SRI’s
best
assessment
of
the
operational
utility of each element.
The response membership values, R(p), were determined
from the raw data
(see Appendices A and
B).
The
target membership
values
T(p.), were
determined by SRI personnel prior to the
start of the experiment. A few elements, however,
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IV RESULTS AND DISCUSSION (U)
Table
shows
the figure of merit analysis for
the ATA
experiment using the fuzzy sets defined
in Table
1.
The target/response
intersection
is shown as
|TnR|
,
and
the sigma-count of the target and
response sets are shown as
|T|
and
|R|,
respectively.
All quantities
include
the full weights
shown
in Table
1.
The primary target was
the ATA
external electron beam experiment.
The secondary target was the adjacent
wind—power generation farm,
and the tertiary target was the
laboratory complex and surrounding area.
Viewed as separate targets,
the
< —
figures
of merjt of 0.94 and 0.81
for the wind-power farm and
the(_
,
complex respectively are
in good agreement with the qualitative
correspondence 'shown
in Figures
2 and
3.
Figure
shows ^d^Ui^iaUd^ta
on
the tertiary target viewing compared
to
a map of the
Jarea.
MThese
figures represent data obtained during the 0800 scan and are consistent
with the tasking and location of
the beacon person
(see page
6).
The
relatively lower value of 0.56
for the primary target
is also consistent
for
the
"scattered" nature of
the response
(see
the original
transcript
in
Appendix
B)
.
The combined value
of 0.61 reflects
the weighting factor
in
favor
of
the primary
target.
Table 2
«
(S/NF)
FIGURE OF MERIT (FM) SUMMARY’*
Target Type
|T Hr|
|T|
|R|
Acc.
Rel.
FM
PRIMARY
Function
20.50
22.00
29.50
0.93
0.69
0.65
Relation
1.80
4.95
5.85
0.36
0.31
0.11
Object
16.86
23.00
19.21
0.73
0.88
0.64
Total
39.16
49.95
54.56
0.78
0.72
0.56
SECONDARY
Total
5.08
5.08
5.38
0.94
1.00
0.94
TERTIARY
Total
5.48
6.42
5.76
0.85
0.95
0.81
TOTAL
49.72
61.45
65.70
0.81
0.76
0.61
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372
FIGURE 2
(U) PART OF THE 0800 RESPONSE COMPARED WITH PHOTOGRAPH OF THE
ALTAMONT WIND-POWER ELECTRIC GENERATION FARM
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/IDMMfltMM
R
lAiT^Fhaurm
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FIGURE
(U)
PART OF THE 0800 RESPONSE COMPARED TO THE WEST GATE OF
J?a !a o-
! o V
'
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FIGURE
(U)
PART
OF
THE
0800
RESPONSE
COMPARED
WITH
A
MAP
OF
THE
LIVERMORE
AREA
V
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Viewer 372 responded with a single concept
to the primary
target that was
incorrect;
it contained,
however,
many individual elements
that were correct.
One aspect of RV responses
that has been
a recurring
theme
is
that
a surprise element
(to
the viewer)
frequently indicates
correct
information about
the
site.
In this experiment,
the following
sentence
is embedded
in a
lot
of
incorrect data
(see page B—18 of
the 2400
scan
in
the transcript,
Appendix B)
:
"What
I
keep
wanting
to
do,
is
I
keep
wanting
to
put
the
whole
thing
into
an
apparatus
that
captures
electrons
and
accelerates
them."
This sentence appears
in a general discussion of a "Star Trek" phaser
system initiated by controlled nuclear explosions,
and represents
a
significant cognitive
surprise.
It
is
important
to determine whether or
not
this type of linguistic
surprise might
serve
as
a reliability
indicator.
’
Long-standing difficulties
in applying the RV phenomena
to
__
applications are
at
least
twofold.
In
a lengthy response,
those elements
of genuine
J
t significance must
be
identified a
priori.
Second,
even excellent examples of remote viewing do not
necessarily imply
usefulness.
As an example of
the
latter,
consider
the response
to
the Altamont pass wind-power generation
farm.
It
is
an excellent example of remote viewing,
but
it
is not of
value
.
^In summary,
V372's response
to
the ATA experiment has mixed
results.
Even though there are excellent examples of remote viewing,
the
value
is mixed.
It does not appear
to be
the case that V372
simply responded with everything he/she knows about technical material.
This viewer has been
involved with all kinds of technical activity
in past
careers.
Yet,
hidden among a significant amount
of incorrect data,
lies
a
nearly complete description of
the external electron beam and details
of
the ATA experiment
of May
7,
1987.
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APPENDIX A (U)
Remote Viewing Response (Drawings)
May 1987
(This Appendix Is CLASSIFIED)
A-l
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APPENDIX B (U)
Remote Viewing Response (Transcript)
May 1987
(This Appendix
is
J
~~
SESSION
1, 8:35 a.m. (U)
May, 1987 (U)
M:
Just
to reiterate what was
said earlier,
we do have extensive
pRotos and information about
the site currently locked up
in the
COTR's
safe.
The name of the person who
is acting as
a beacon at
this
point
in time
is XXXXXX.
He
is
a Physicist.
He
is on the site and he
has been there since 8:00 this morning and will be there for a period
of
time.
This first session
is
a real time session.
We are going
to
be doing
total
sessions.
We will be doing one at 4:00 this
afternoon and one at midnight.
Between now and 4:00 this afternoon
there will be another one
that will be a retrocognitive one
to
midnight of last night.
(S/NF) ’Now,
to
start
off, we are first of all
interested
in the
geographical area,
we are
interested
in the gestalt of the area,
what
is the area
like.
We are
interested
in the manmade
sorts of things
in
the
area.
And
then we are going
to focus
in on
items of
interest
in
as much detail
as possible.
What's
the function of the place and
what's happening.
And,
what
is the difference between what's
happening now and what's happening later.
That will be kind of a
summary thing we'll
do
at midnight
tonight.
But generally anything of
specific
interest
at this particular point
in time
in terms
of
the
activity
V:
\^This
time?
M:
(Right
now.
Yep.
V:
j OK,
what
M:
_
So anytime you're ready
to
start,
why... are
there any other
questions?
V:
J
’ No.
What
I'm gonna do
is
M:
j Just prepare yourself,
cause
I know you had
a rough night
,
V:
i-
jj So,
what
I'm gonna do
is,
I'm gonna probably sketch
lightly
in pencil.
everything
M:
i
OK.
V:
( An then
I will
ink
it
in afterwords.
»—
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M:
] OK.
V:
{ Because
I
do more accurate drawing
in pencil than
I do
in
ink.
/
M:
\
OK,
let me get you a pencil
then.
i
V:
I have one.
M:
Oh,
OK.
(They both speak at once here and
it
is garbled.)
We
gotta be precise
in our detail here.
So we can take as
long as we
want,
there
is no time limit on what we're doing.
But we will
try
to
bring some closure
to each one of the four sessions.
V:
| OK.
Some kind of a general
layout
here,
I guess.
This
is
a
very light pencil.
I brought a Stephen King book
if you get bored.
We'll start with something real dynamic
like
a line that we'll call
a
road.
Uh,
that doesn't
feel right.
You got an eraser somewhere?
(M
get eraser.)
Thanks.
A road,
parking area,
building.
There seems
to
be,
uh,
there seems
to
be,
is that running?
M:
V:
Um,
hum.
*
,
i
There
seems
to be,
um,
a whole
lot more buildings than I'm
drawing,
But what
I'm trying
to
do,
is
I'm trying to draw buildings
that are meaningful.
M:
( Um,
hum.
V:
Versus buildings
that are useless.
By useless
I mean that
there
is probably a million buildings here which have
a desk and
typical ... this office,
that office
type of arrangement.
(Could not
make out what he
said after this.)
M:
^
U
So,
do you mean that what you're drawing here are buildings
that are
important
to the function that we're after here?
V:
Exactly.
M:
OK.
V:
(
And,
uh,
in trying to do
this,
I'm trying
to put
it
in. .. (tape
'cuts out -
it's about
on the counter)
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SESSION 2, 10:10 a.m. (U)
May, 1987 (U)
M:
,
OK,
it
v:
(
) Right.
M:
( x-.
) May
7.
V:
And what we're about
to do now
is
the
workin^on
°f
the outbound experiment
that we're
IZ
L
’
that involves soing back to 12:00
last nirht
----
‘o r-ssra.- ^
,
.
.
,
There's
a really distinct different
fpoKnn-
u
•
,
c”;r:itr::
n
ir3^
ars
the senerai^
B-4
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SESSION 3, 4:00 p.m. (U)
May 7, 1987 (U)
M:
V:
M:
C
M:
V:
add
V:
(
”7 So
>
disregard what you did this morning,
in terms
of trying
to
to
it
7 °k -
] And focus on the activity and what expands out from that.
)
OK .
j
) Allright
.
a)
(Lots of
silence)
Hmrammm.
Getting an impression
of,
uh,
really
loud,
loud noise
like
a like a bull—horn on
a intercom— type of
speaker
system.
Somebody's talking through
it.
There's
an and
that
uh,
there's an echo like
its
in a large day type of area.
There
is
uh.
. .uh.
. .1
m trying
to think of a way of describing this perception.
I'm looking at
a very long box.
Uh,
square
tube box,
uh,
it's
uh,
let
me think about this
a minute
It's really an interesting thing
-
I
can't,
uh,
I can't quite fasten
it
to anything.
It's kind of
like
a.
It doesn't
start out straight -
it
starts out
funny,
ah,
weird,
it
starts out
-
it's got
a joint system and then
it goes straight ... it
does something like
this.
But
this,
there's something wrong with
this.
I
feel
like
I'm trying to describe
in detail something that's
very esoteric.
It's,
uh,
it's,
this
thing's squared —
it has squared
corners and edges and what
not.
M: r
Um-hura
.
V:
) Uh,
very
M:
) Urn-hum.
V:
[ And,
it
]
M:
i;
3 I
see
.
V:
\
a
That's
s(
it has something flowing through
it.
lengthy wave
form.
hing flowing through
it
that's,
uh,
not
a very
It's
like
a very short wave
form,
it's guided
through this thing and
it,
and
it,
comes down at the end of
this
thing
and washes across
like
a row of,
like,
uh,
I want
to say that
there's
a spiral
at
the end
like.
And there's
like
a row of,
of things
sticking out at
the end of this spiral.
They,
they're densely packed.
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L
M:
M:
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' real ?
i0k ",ire - °nly they ' re
wire.
something.
They^re fired but^h"
“,UOy
°r 5pecial “ tal or special
„„
y
re> llxed but they're bunched.
And thev'rp „n
nera
y pointing
in the same direction and,
uh
this stuff
down and washes around or over and through
thi*
’
l
u
f
?
tips of these things
it
uh
it
JL
^
hlS>
And when
hit s
the
does,
it excites
U
h
’
It
**
the Same thing that
a laser
don't,
uh
it's nAt ^r
^
h6Se ’
th65e metal rods -
But they
gas-filled tubes or
have^he^i^th
• ^ ?
laser “ these are not
like
things
out,
you know
the
V
*
blOWS StUff
in and suck^
bunch of.
„h.
electrons
eXCiUn!! * Wh° le
:
(
Yeah.
W the
B
;-re
th
rsli°„
r
; across
el
t
e
his
r '
7tct7f
wire'.
^ “d
\
I
a particle beam
in other words of some
sort.
U,"
Jj Yeah-
But
that's not correct
-
i t - „
T
,
.
particle beam -
it's
it's
th»c
l
^
s more
I wouldn't call
it
a
sss ~r"v-~
r
talking a wave for. that,
that
it
is super,
super shjrt.
1 Urn-hum
.
Uh> its
a r&y.
OK,
some kind of
a ray
But
it'*
Q
,
u
wave.
Shorter wave than a microwave
A minin’
Sh°rt
short wave.
This
is shorter
?
!
'
micr°wave
is pretty short
Microwave
is
(couldn't get word here)
^
even shorter,
this
is real short wave'stuff
1're t!^"
I*
don
t know
in angstroms,
we're talking something less than^o ^
angstroms,
which
is real
short.
That would kp
*
J°
10 angstroms probably.
Anyway
it bunoheff
*
*
’
less
than
is you get
this,
this coherency coming out thTelT this^
haPP6nS
front,
if you will,
and
it actually
it actuallv
d
’h ^
Cerent wave
feeling like this
is
a inside of a tube
^ ^
1 ^ ^
OK.
is
a iLTMS Wh° le thing
iS compressed inside
of a
tube
~ 7 uh
r7oTLr
a
ge
V
rpL
n
ce
aS "* “» ^
** “~
And
the
tube
t
Do you have any feeling for scale on that?
Large
.
Room size,
or bigger?
]
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V:
M:
A
^
No,
but the tube
is probably something on the order
of,
uh,
u
,
I
11 say
feet
in diameter,
it's really interesting because
I,
i
see
the tube there but then sometimes
I don't see
the
tube.
I
see
it
operating
in an aeroplace space and then
I sometimes
see
it operating
in air which
is real
interesting.
What happens when
it operates
in
air
is
the air molecules actually burn up.
It super heats
the air
molecules,
they actually self-destruct or excite themselves out of the
way or something.
\ Um-•hum.
M:
And,
and
I get the feeling that
I,
you can actually see
it
r?' ?T
This ray-
when
this thing comes out
in air molecules
It
s
like
it doesn't
shoot out of the end
in a race along to the
arget
it
s
like
the whole thing past
the ray slowly comes
in
the
beam.
It's
like
it appears,
you know,
this entire length of
it here
appears
like
its
super heating the air molecules
that
it's going
through
to
the point
that
they actually white-out
in some way.
f
D Um-hum.
V:
.
J
A"d down
other end
is
the target and,
uh,
I'm trying to
pageX"
6 What
that
target thing
iS
'
g°nna d°
a b6tter P icture
M:
V:
M:
V:
'
)
OK.
(
see
this
in a vacuum sometimes,
and
I
see
it also going
tnrough specialized gases
like,
like they're testing to
see
its
penetration power through different gaseous mixtures ah different
mixtures of oxygen or atmosphere or something.
And,
uh,
I also get
I
get
the feeling like
the target's hard -
it,
it's
like of
a hard
target.
And,
and,
by that
I mean like metal
- it's
a metallic
target
uh.
varying degrees of thickness,
shielding,
and,
uh,
parts of
the
target being tested are covered with solid state electronics,
chip
electronics,
uh,
it's
like pointing
it at your home computers
to
see
if you could burn your home computer up and then putting your home
computer at
a varying or differing modalities of shielding
to
see what
®f
,
b
xt has
on
lts capacity
to operate.
Urn,
I,
I get
the feeling
like this
is really,
this thing
is really hazardous
to human
life.
''j Um.
mean
I wouldn't stand
in front of this sucker.
This
is
this
is really
I mean,
it will really damage a hard target,
but
it
ain't nothing like
it will
do to
the human body,
I mean,
it will just
cook,
it will just vaporize the human body
so
to speak.
Soft
targets
wouldn't be
instant
inferno
in front of
it.
it actually boils
the air
molecules
in front of
it.
uh,
but that's not exactly right,
it's
like
they all boil
simultaneously,
all
the way down the
line.
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M:
;
^ Um-hum.
V:
(
j It's
like these,
it's
such,
this
10 or less Angstroms
of wave
front are
so - the wave and frequency
is
so
small
that,
uh,
the,
uh,
air molecules get
in
the way simply because they are getting sighted
by
it.
So
it
turns
the air molecules
into
a frothing mass.
And
it
has
to
do with,
uh,
the real main function we're talking about here
is
these,
these metallic
-
I keep wanting to
say metallic
-
I guess maybe
because they've got
so much oxide
in
them.
They're
like,
they're
like
meant
to be destroyed by this
thing.
When electrons hit
these,
these
thick wires,
this mass of material,
what happens
is this mass of
material,
uh,
lases out or puts out
this coherent wave
front,
and,
it
only does
it
for just
so long and then
it,
it burns up
-
it's no good
anymore
- or
it's,
uh,
it,
it does something
to
it,
urn,
its
like
a
cluster of wires.
This mass of oxide material all held together but
they're,
but
they're drawn out and
in straighter fibers
like.
I
think
that's
to give direction
to
the wave,
the coherent wave fronts or
something -
it's
a huge mass
of electrons
that's forced across
the,
this
-
I wanta
say electrons,
anyway
I don't what
the hell
is.
And
I
go back up
this line and
I,
I can't help but go back to
that,
you
know,
that circular sphere which
is...
M: C
~"J
Yeah.
V:
.
.
. in the other building.
But,
I'm getting a real
interesting
picture
of
this other sphere,
uh,
M:
V:
M:
j
I
know.
This
is,
this
is another building.
.. somehow,
.
.
? Yeah.
This
is
in,
we're now
in C building,
.
.
j Oh,
that's
in C building.
V:
This
is
in C building here.
This,
if
I remember
right ... somewhere between here and here
is
the wall
of C building,
right,
I'm not
sure
if that's not
in B building and
the
tube extends
through that connector piece
in
the C building and_C building
is
predominantly
the target building
- where
the target's contained
or
held.
M:
/ Uh-huh.
V:
M:
V:
But you know all
the
test equipment
is
set up on both sides
of
the target building.
This
is,
I'm getting a real
interesting
perception of this
now.
It's one
I didn't have earlier.
|
~j OK.
Let's do something that's changed,
or,
or...
i
v
Essentially what
it amounts
to
is
I'm seeing
a circle,
you
know,
and
inside
the circle
-
I wish
I
could draw this,
ha,
uh,
inside
the circle
the circle's
split
like,
uh,
into
all
these different
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V:
M:
V:
Yes.
M
Were iL^ere”. ^ °f & production phase and
its routed through
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
-- Generat es
this
ray,
this,
uh,
yeah,
yeah.
\J I
see,
OK.
M:
V:
this ^ And ’
Uh
’
Uh ’
thlS
’
takes
these megalithic
lasers
to light
)
Um-hunj.
J For this
to cause
this.
1 Um-hum.
f;
And
the output of this sucker right here
is quite destructive
in
terms of
its wave front,
uh,
but
this
thing rapidly loses
uh
PurSosiS '„7 ?hat
t“° e
,
ber
USe
°f the alr "0le0lllas and but
for
lest
P
poses,
uh,
that
s
it,
i just said a key thing.
This
is a testing
apparatus
; for
the concept perhaps.
testing
Lj Um-hum.
,
.
-2 I* other words,
somehow,
uh,
this
is emulating the process
that would be done
in
a,
in a more large way.
m a huge way
uh
this
is
i
e
a little example of something,
uh,
I'm trying
I'm trvine
to
figure out what
the
- as best
! can figure on a haS^get whaf
this
t0
d°
iS
they
' re
to effect,
actually physically destroy
this hard target.
And what we're talking
in hardened
that itV
heavily shielded,
the solid state electronics
of this target are
irrefln^
161^’
Pr0tected
'
uh -
what's
interesting there's,
god
this
is really neat because this unfolding - there's a twofold
there^
a
L°ae°
it V
b°Ut
Wanta
alaa
befl“~
orget
it
- this
is
uh,
test vehicle for concept,
ih
the hard
target
taS
S
b
a
d
tWO
f°
ld
!an
°Ut
fr °m tMs
’
°ne
is
’
you find out can
I S
arget
be destroyed,
or at
least made dysfunctional,
but
b
you find
out
can you build a hard
target that can't be dysfunctional ”adf
“jhTthinr
' 3 me you set
a tTOfoid banafit - -
-
^
Sounds
like
it could be a competitive process
- one team
?o
r
penftrate
r
n"
S ‘°
“
inVi"Cible *"d °ne
on attempting
WO, .3k
1V
s
lik
v
e exactly risht
'
you
-™g°f
,
you've got,
well,
you've
which til "aTit
b
k‘
thl "SS hare
'
Y°U
' Ve SOt
thia machine
which we
11 call A machine,
uh,
producing larger amounts of power
Then you ve got a B problem which
is stripping off the power for use
B-10
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in a new way of lasing we'll call
it.
Then you've got this machine
which
is
a whole new form of luminous
laser.
I'm not
sure laser's
right.
There's
a different word.
Phaser,
phaser.
That's what they
use on Star Trek.
j, Ha!
Then
it was something more advanced than a laser,
u Yeah,
it's like next generation.
It's
a phaser beam.
And
it's very possible that
it might be
in a microwave region because
microwave keeps popping
in my mind,
but
I don't think so.
~\ Um-hum
.
Uh,
I
think we don't need all of this
to do
the kinds of
outputs
in the microwave region that we could do to create this
effect.
Uh,
I
think microwave
is,
uh,
the problem with microwave
is
there
is no way to generate
a coherent microwave front but then
I
might be wrong about
that.
But
I
think this
is
a different kind of
wave.
Th;s
is really a coherent wave.
And the key here
in part C of
the problem
is
these little metallic rods or wires or whatever use
this bundle of stuff
is - that's
the key to
it.
And,
uh,
I
look at
this and
I,
this concept down here and
I get an impression
of,
I just
want
to put
a big thing like
this
that
says
"Focus here."
Which
is
real
interesting like this
is deliberately controlled nuclear
explosion and you focus
it all right here.
That's
a wave
front
I
keep
wanting
to draw esoterically
-
I don't know how to draw
it
mechanically.
r
~!°k -
(
j
I
say
to myself
it's
impossible
to do
that but
then...
i
j Well
,
when you say esoterically what
do you mean by that?
t
^ Meaning
that,
uh,
I
think,
I
think the concept's really down,
think
in terms
of,
of what's going on here
in
the
event.
The
concept's really
ironed out.
I
think where there's
a problem
is
- the
timing.
Let me write that
down.
|;
J Yeah.
J*
jJ Timing
is,
uh,
is critical.
And
in the time
that they're
having a real problem with the timing because element
A,
well
subsequent
to that - there
is
some other thing back here called lasers
which we'll call
1-A.
The
1-A ignites
A.
A
is actually destroying C
in some way - eating
it up.
This
- outside this bottle or
this
control mechanism this mirrored sphere,
uh,
A couldn't happen.
It
couldn't happen and
if
it did
it would be out of control.
And
in
the
event when
it does happen
inside this control
sphere,
it's,
uh,
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I
M:
M:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
Un'{
d
jull
S
b“™!
en
ls^^“s°
n
i
t0 Me ' “ teS‘
the
C °nCellt
'
But “
thing that probably took years and
6*"’ ^ ^ talking a really complex
but if. only a St^eMoT^lr^lity
*° bUild
’
concept
is ten fold removed
in term*
n-F
V
i
the concept>
The real
tMs.
It all has
to do with timing
dlf
ioUlty fr°”
about increasing ^
and rd»-fwh™^X
r
%on":^„
a
ST**”*
thSt ' S *°”"a Sid
it.
But you can
see the megalithic
increase
in T^oulluT.^
int6reSting -
(
Sure,
were increased'Tf ‘th^t “JL'JY
ele”e"ts
-
If ^
lots of power going
to
this
teJ
alk
.lng billions and billions of
ten fold increase
in power to the oujpjt 'or?hi°
U
th
a"
i,lairlne
“
»ean,
just .. .unbelievably destructive
Thft esLn?“V°
U
J
d bS
'
getting,.
e
‘
rilat
essentaally what
I'm
I-
OK.
being te?t
a
V
S
tia\
e7
S
„hiT-,
i5
*
*
1 tMnk aU
the agents of this are
up,
they-re iesting all
theZ
^
n°‘
“
[
j
I
see.
(
to com.
l7-?a?i ^eTi^^in^^u^^^ n7^ aHbratTT^
ThS
“ m
Hhe
a launoh
°r —
j Yeah.
M:
V:
M:
Vo make 'surTZ^ZZZ™££* ““
“
-
Ldhal
Uh
' I
th
m7a'„,
th
re„The
d
y nrT^ suTT'up \h\~ **£
the atmosphere will glow around
it.
h
’
th
’
the
’
uh>
£e. 3
see
’
so “ere
is
something,
there really
is something
to
|
j 0h
t
sure.
Jit'S not just
uh... watch the dials kind of
thing...
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V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
V:
[
J Oh,
no, Dr
involved
in
it
i~
trying to perfect
watching the
busij-
the,
uh,
it boils
M:
V:
/j Hmmm
_ J
think there's an awful
lot of dial watching
*.*rTns of the time and sequences and everything and
the actual outcome,
but
in terms
of,
uh,
ffS end of this
sucker,
uh,
I'll bet ya
it boils
>e atmosphere around
it.
M:
V:
\] I'll bet
y-
out of there —
it. *
target
-
it actual
it,
which would c—
that's visible.
r
stand against
it.
just become
so exc
explode.
^
actually see
this,
this,
phaser type wave come
^
just
or just appear between between that and the
looks
like
lt ' S boiling and the atmosphere around
whlte haze or something,
uh,
I'll bet ya
bet y& there isn't very much of a hard target
to
,. Uld"
t explode
itself,
it's molecules would
~ed by
it that
it would literally implode or
zzzsr
so"ethins iike
that
u
“d
u
-
ij Um
,
hum
the wa^e foTma^^VTo
shor" Th^thT
^ ^ pr°blem
think
is
short
that
the distance
is critical .. .yeah.
atmosphU buV In^e^p ^ace^ for
sur^ace
the earth like
in
effective because ill
,L 7',
W0“ ld be really
the surface of the
t0 blook “
»ut on
components of the wave are too shortl
? WaVe comP°nehts.
the
molecules.
°rt
50 they re =“^ed up by the air
C
''Oh,
I
see.
(
j So,
when you get such a cushioning effect
frnm
tv,Q
atmosphere
that
if you were
to wu
S
,1
\ /
the surrounding
would be totally undetected
^ ?'5 ."il<>S
'r °"' lhis
anything out,
uh
it wouldn't
h
•
e
’
Just wouldn't be putting
detect,
so,
in
“'T* “ythinS °U ‘
that y°“
run a satellite over this area to*!
*
a
1!
8"08 '
Say if you were
to
’
would be damn near impossible to dolha?
What W8S g° lng °" U
M: (f
If Um
,
hmm
|
;
V:
A.
-
7 Yn\ i
p.An
^
^etect^Tn lplcl
e^
a
d
in!
y
is
deteCt “
in Sp8Ce
'
tho“«h - « W bad your
last thin
s i
t
this was operating
in space
that would be
the
it ate you
uh
it's
W
°^J
d be
the
last
thin& you would detect before
ate you,
uh,
it
s really interesting.
I also think one of the
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other problems possibly with this,
I get
a feeling like,
uh,
the wave
front on this
is also highly effected by gravitational pull,
things
like
that.
Things that you don't normally have to worry about with
light,
photon-type activity.
You know on a standard
a laser outside
the fact that
the laser gets really weak over distance.
Well,
this
will get weak over distance unless
it's
in a vacuum,
if you're
in a
vacuum like
in space or near vacuum,
like
space,
then the distance on
this
is really great
in terms of power.
I was just seeing these hard
targets being literally shaking inside
out,
it's
like the molecules
inside the hard targets were just vibrating instantly
into,
into,
uh,
such a hypervolic action that don't even stay glued together.
They
just vaporized - the hard target,
uh,
of course,
the harder
the target
the less
it's damaged,
but there's
still an awful
lot
of damage,
uh,
plus there's another thing.
The,
the real,
it's all,
the whole
thing's got experimental problems,
but
the real problems,
the real
crux,
the state-of-the-art stuff
is right here
in C which
is
these,
these components right here.
They get bathed by the output
of
the,
the control exposure chamber,
but these little rods or wires
or bundle
of whatever they are,
sticks,
metallic oxide,
sticks or whatever,
these anodes.
.
.
)J
Urn,
hmm.
(Ll! 1 don't know if anodes
is
the proper word.
I'm reminded of,
This
is really crazy - the association,
but
on the bottom of
a boat,
to keep the metal on your boat from being eaten away through corrosion
and what not you put these little nodes
so
that,
you know,
the
salt
water,
they're soft metals,
the salt water attacks those first,
you
see,
and eats
those away,
and
so you use the rest of the metal on your
boat
- I'm not even explaining that right,
but that's what
I get
a
feeling about
these,
is that
these actually attract the electron
stream or whatever
it
is
and,
and,
the collision of the electrons
or
whatever with the molecular components of these oxide tubes
or
whatever.
.
.
Urn
,
hmm
.
V:
C-
7--- produces
this really
intense
ten fold increase or ten
thousand fold
increase wave front output.
They get real excited and
they put these waves
out.
So
it operates very much like
a laser,
but
it ain
t
a
laser.
It's,
it's more
like
a phaser,
you know.
I don't
know how to explain that,
it's
a different kind of wave than coherent
light waves.
M:
|
fj Yeah
.
V:
|
C7 It " s
in a different frequency spectrum altogether.
d.
Xj
sounds
like,
it
sounds almost
like
instead
of,
uh,
transmitting light,
you're transmitting energy.
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V:
i
(
Yeah,
right,
exactly,
absolutely,
that's exactly what we're
talking about here
is an energy laser instead of a light
laser.
But
it
takes,
it
takes,
this huge complex system of light wave lasers
to
ignite this controlled explosion
in this sphere of mirrors and then
that
is absolutely forced
to fold down upon
itself
to produce even
larger amounts of energy and then energy which
is really seeking to
expand outwards produces these orbits of electron matter or whatever
that are stripped of them to bathe these rods
to produce some other
form of
laser.
(M speaks but can't understand.)
Yeah,
but
this,
this
part can't get,
I don't
if
it's because
it's
so short and
looks real
complex.
.
.
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V;
'"j Um,
hmm.
J ...or
if
it's because
it's
like
a segmented
tube.
j It's funny because that's where you started.
jYeah,
and
it's
a real complex segmented tube of some kind.
j Um,
OK.
T] But
it necks down
there,
it becomes very focused.
Qoh,
I
see.
Q But
I
think
it's strictly
a vehicle
to get
these,
these
electrons out
of here over
to here.
Some electron wave guide
for
lack
of
a better word.
^
—
T
M:
^
| Hmmm.
Is
it,
but,
it's
a transportation medium,
you would
say,
it's not something that,
that modifies
the...
V:
£
( No,
it,
doesn't,
I
don't
think
it modifies
it
in any way.
As
a matter of
fact,
there may be a huge electromagnetic field wrapped
around
it...
M:
^
/ Oh,
I
see.
V:
...in order
to get
the electrons
to travel down
it,
or stay
within
it.
You know,
it compacts
them maybe and transports
them.
As
a matter of
fact,
it,
the reason why it's segmented may be because
it
coils around this
sphere.
Actually,
it comes out of this
sphere
in
a
coil and then dumps
straight
into
that
one.
But
I
feel
like they're
separate places.
They may,
ah,
shoot.
Uh,
I know when
this stuff's
fired there's nobody
in the
room.
At
least
this kid wouldn't be
around.
No,
I wouldn't mind being on the opposite end observing,
you
know,
not on the end of
it but
to
the
side observing the
impact area
or
the
target
area,
that would be really interesting because
I
think
it's very coherent,
very directed.
I don't think there's anybody down
there at
all.
I think it's probably all watched with TV's,
uh,
I
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c
can't
imagine
like
if element
C
loses
it's coherent wave front
it's no
longer putting waves out
in front of
it and just starts putting
it out
sporadically
in all different directions,
it would kill everything
within
so many feet.
I
suspect that this element
is packed
in,
uh,
built
inside a block house concrete-type of place,
and that's why
I
think this wave guide
is used
to get the electrons over there.
I keep
wanting to say electrons but
I don't think that's what they are
-
highly excited matter,
let's put
it
that way.
M:
'
1 So now
if you were
to step back from this perspective
a little
'bit,
how
is this all taking place or does
it have any relationship
to
what we did this morning
in any way or
is
this a process
that's going
on
in totally different part of the compound or
a totally different
place,
or where,
where are we now
if we expand out from this a little
bit?
V:
r
(
y’ OK,
A would be
in the B building.
C
is
in C building.
M:
J OK,
so
then,
V:
(
'~j Of,
or,
maybe C
is
in
a connector part and
building.
the target's
in C
M:
”*]
I
see.
V:
(
] Test equipment's on both sides
of
the hard target area,
uh,
I
get
the feeling that C building
is basically a block house
type,
uh,
type of place.
But,
but,
then
I also have
to say and
I go back to
multiple teams which
I
should put down here,
uh,
multiple
teams,
uh,
there's just
a whole
lot going on here,
you know like A
it's
a whole
different team of
folks,
and there goal has nothing
to do with
C,
uh,
A folks over here,
their primary goal as
a team
is
to fire up this
controlled explosive device and maintain
it put out ever larger
increasing amounts of energy from
it.
Uh,
then there's
a whole
different
team that's playing with
this,
this phaser thing down here.
And within the phaser team there's
a whole different team that's
concerned with trying
to find
a more
stable,
stable bundle of wires.
A more stabilized bundle.
A more focused output device.
Then there's
teams an A and B team at
the hard target
site.
One
is trying
to
destroy the hard target no matter how it's shielded and the other's
trying to shield
it no matter how hard they try to destroy
it.
And,
so there's
2 sub-teams
there.
Uh,
simply by changing,
I keep saying
these are
the
key,
this bundle,
this bundle of wires,
this bundle
of
rods
or
whatever,
by simply changing those,
you change the entire
output wave
front,
in other words whatever
is
in inserted here
is what
determines the wave,
uh,
how many angstroms
it
is,
uh,
how much energy
output
there
is,
its coherency,
all these different things,
uh,
and
I
keep,
uh,
one of the other things
I
keep finding very
interesting
is
the
fact
that
uh,
in terms of controlled explosion,
the enormous
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M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
(
amount
of power this puts out
in relationship to how
it excites
this
is nothing compared
to what
the real machine will
do.
I feel
like
this
is
all just a mock up.
A test mock up.
This
is what we can do
within bounds
of,
uh,
within bounds
of control,
or within bounds
of
experimentation,
if you were
to build the real machine,
uh,
and put
it m orbit or something
it would be
far less complicated on one hand
and on the other hand
it would be even more complicated,
uh,
but
its
power would be equivalent
to this
-
it would be 10 times
10 more
powerful output.
You could literally put
a wall up
- a big glass wall
that nothing could fly through
it.
An umbrella type of front.
You
can imagine
a huge bundle of key rods or whatever each one putting
out,
each one putting out
a very tiny beam that
2,000 miles away would
be much wider and broader.
.
.
(
]
I
see.
C-
_
>
uh,
very intense all side by side you know its putting up
this
front,
like an arc
so many miles high and so many miles wide,
and
,
uh
,
'j A -shield type
thing.
3 Yeah,
but
it wouldn't
last
long.
-
] Oh,
I
see.
_
] It wouldn't
be,
you'd wait until
the
last second type
thing,
and
it would present
this wall and
it would
last maybe
seconds.
But
anything
in
a depth of say 300 miles would be just vaporized,
it would
be
like
a curtain that would appear and disappear,
uh,
really,
really
Star Trek stuff,
man,
this
is really exciting Star Trek stuff.
I wish
I could figure
things out
in more detail.
And maybe
I well,
maybe
that will
be
something.
.
.
J Yeah,
maybe
that will come
tonight.
7 It will
come
tonight,
yeah.
J Yeah
,
J'But,
uh,
that's basically
it,
I guess.
7 0K -
.
J So,
I'm gonna try to render something more
- maybe
I'll
leave
tbis alone.
I'm afraid
to mess with
this.
^
) 0K.
71' 11 just darken
it
in.
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M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
xonl2
xr£
z\
s r;e
that
' s
fi-
J
All,
watching this sucker go
off.
) Seeing whatever
is going on.
Vheir
*th their thumbs
in
^ That"s
true.
^ thl£ "Yace ,Tirt
d
en youThi?
d '
knt>W want their electri0 Mu
/ Makes your electric bill
look kind of piddly.
does
it!
J It
sure
does.
r
J By comparison.
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SESSION 4, 12:00 p.m. (U)
May 7, 1987 (U)
—
"7
So,
here we are.
It's
a minute or
so till
12.
Take
a minute
Staff member
UrS6
Th
* S
°n SUe &gain aS are
the SRI
aff members.
They
be acting as beacons
in
this,
uh,
during this
pass and they'll
be observing,
watching the event
that
0i an event
that
is taking place at
this
time and your job
is
to give
a
tZTJTiT
°f
that
’
°f What
' S happenin& there,
what's of interest
to
them right now as they're at
the site.
interest
to
(
'] Hmm.
OK,
let's
see.
Um.
I'm
trvinsr tn
< +
,,u
..
•
fnterest
ereStir
J
mPrintS here
‘
X
'
uh
-
1 ^t
sort of
uh’ kind o7
&
interesting,
uh,
I want
to say that
I'm,
you know,
that
I'm
envisioning this,
this,
uh phaser-type of thing
but that's
I'm
T' m
seeing something
a little different
.
s,
I
m,
I m
!
] Um-hum
I Um,
um
uh,
hum.
I
feel
like I'm stuck between an overlay
an
analytic overlay and an actual event..
r
Um-hum
/ And,
I
don't know how to rectify
that.
/Can't quite
sort
it out?
It's on Turn too. ^ °*
lik°' “ eV6nt
bUt U
' 5
.
a
’
kind °* “ke
(j
Which
is kind of
interesting.
Q
*"] Um-hum.
J Uh
*
I ' m kinda ^rn between whether I'm seeing like
a remote
an event remote
to
that actual place being observed there or one
’
that
s on film,
or one
that's on film combined with an actual event
going on
there.
I don't know how to explain
that,
uh,
sort of
a
package deal,
it's kind of
like,
uh,
uh,
I keep getting,
uh,
like
combination of two things
- one's local and one
isn't
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V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
(
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
,
~~J Uh ’
one
' s observing something going on there and the other's
observing something going on somewhere else that's related.
(
J So
it's
like maybe two sides that are involved.
I
?feah
’ its kind of
like there's two sides
involved.
The,
uh
except
they both mean the same
thing,
uh,
I can't
tell
if one's real
time or not.
y’Are
they both participating
in,
in a common event,
or...
{
It
s sort of a common event,
Uh-huh
.
J
1 ^ think about
it for a couple of minutes,
than waste
the
tape - shut
that off for
a second.
OaH
right.
You can,
rather
7Give me about
a minute and I'll
tell you when to start
up.
}
OK.
(
of
o
fV'\
getting
thingS
‘
First off
I
' m getting a presentation
o
a film showing a device being tested somewhere else and then that's
followed up with demonstration of this,
this capacity,
this,
uh
uh
Phaser type
of radiation machine showing
it's effect on a specific
kind of target.
So
it's
like a two-part
thing.
Only one part
is done
somewhere
else.
And,
and,
I
keep getting an impression of a place
even further m
the desert,
OK,
and what's
interesting about
it
is
is
surrounded with,
uh,
hundreds of like
individual,
uh,
storage bunkers
like everywhere.
I
think,
I
think what we're talking about here
is
U7*K
h
’
S6e
’
I '“ having trouble defining between demonstration
of this device
and,
and a real,
well
they're
both" real,
but one was
done beforehand,
and one
is being done
now.
And
the one that was done
beforehand was actually
a device.
It was really
a,
a,
and
I keep
saying device,
I'm talking what
I'm talking about
is
a bomb.
It was
actually used
in a demonstration type of effect
and,
uh,
it was
like
two ended,
it was double ended.
It had one end was,
was an actual
bomb
that produced,
that produces or produced an output
that
initiated
a second bomb.
It produced an output
that
initiated this ray
if you
wiil
but
it was all done,
uh,
like
in an underground test.
And
then
they had films of
this and they showed the outputs of this and
they're
going into a live demonstration using this
laser
to initiate very much
the
same kind of outputs only on
a much smaller scale,
so,
uh,
we're
essentially talking about
two kinds of devices doing the same
thing,
one on a
large order of magnitude,
one on a small order of magnitude.
M:
*7 Um-hum.
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V:
And ,
ufc.
I'm getting a picture
of,
I'm getting a mental
image
of
this device,
thing that they use,
uh,
for like the canned
demonstration,
film demonstration.
And
it's,
uh,
it's uh,
that's not
right.
Do we have an eraser?
Let's do
it
this way,
uh,
um,
something's
not.
right about
that.
It's more
like,
uh,
it's
like an
underground thing that's,
uh,
demonstrated there's
like a-uh,
we'll
call
this
an initiation device.
And what happens
is
this
thing goes
off and
its fastened
to
a little short piece of tubing that
is very
much like a wave guide and what
it does
is
it
focuses,
um,
this
is,
uh,
focus
for,
focus
for,
it's
the first thing I'm trying,
what's
the
first
thing that happens from like a thermonuclear device
like
a
thermonuclear device,
it's not even a thermonuclear
it's a nuclear
device.
The first thing that happens
is there's
a huge output of
neutrons and
it goes
into
a second device and the second device
is
a,
uh,
thermo target.
And then this
ignites,
OK.
And that becomes
like
a thermonuclear
type of device and that goes off and then fastened
to
the end of this
is
this cluster of
these,
those rods,
whatever you
want
to call
them.
Little lasing type
things.
M:
v)# Um-hum.
V:
d
l^And they produce
a massive output
as they're enveloped.
Lasing rods produce
like
that.
This output.
And this goes down
a,
uh,
this whole
thing takes place
in a chamber under ground and this
goes down
a tunnel and
at
the other end of this tunnel you're down
let's
say
it's
a,
this
is ground
level.
And you get down here
in
this
chamber where they do
this and
it shoots down
this
tunnel
a few
thousand
feet.
Meanwhile,
this thing's expanding over here -
it's
actually exploding,
but
it happens
so fast,
uh,
this explodes but
before
this destroys
this,
it
ignites
it,
with
this massive focus
of
neutrons.
When
this
ignites
it lases these which produces
the output
of,
uh,
gamma rays
or whatever they are.
As
that's being enveloped
these rays are racing down this tunnel which has blocks
in
it.
And
right behind these rays going down the
tunnel,
these blocks are
closing.
And down here
at
the end
is
a chamber of targets
so also
there's sensing equipment down here
so there's
a secondary tunnel down
here.
And,
uh,
sensing equipment we'll
say sensing.
This
is
the
actual,
uh,
this
is
the actual detonation place.
So this
is all
destroyed here,
but
it
sends radiation down this tunnel and behind
this radiation which
is
all
very,
I mean,
everything's all
instantaneous almost speed of light and this always happens,
these
shafts close down behind
it to minimize damage
to the target area.
So
the only thing arrives down at
the target area are
the rays from this
thing which then shadow the target,
and,
and,
this
is,
this
is,
uh,
essentially we'll call
this Demo One.
That's,
uh,
done
at
a remote
site,
of the
site,
Air*
'Base,
uh,
lots of
large bunkers.
Some
are out
in the desert.
That's Demo One.
jP
Then you get Demo Two.
Demo One shows
this
is what
it
looks
like 'on
a full
scale.
Demo Two shows
a more controlled thing going on
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L
~J
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at
the
lab.
And essentially what you got
is,
uh,
this
thing all
hooked up
to all these
input,
all these different
things,
lasers,
are
hooked
into this
sphere as
I
,
as
I drew before.
M:
l Um-hum.
V:
(S/NF)
And
it
in turn produces,
uh,
produces
that giant electron
output
to,
uh,
to sort of cluster this
thing which puts
out
this
ray.
This,
this
I
don't even want
to use
this picture cause
it's not very
good.
The problem I'm having with this
is
I'm,
there's
a big element
that's missing and
it's where
it's missing
is connecting this machine
to this machine.
There's something
in here
that
I'm not getting and
I
can't.
.
.
M:
(
2) Is
it
the
same one you were having trouble with this
afternoon
.
.
.
V:
Yeah,
um-hum.
M:
^'...same,
same connection there?
V:
^Wftat
I keep wanting to
do,
is
I
keep wanting to put
the whole
tKing "into an apparatus
that captures electrons and accelerates
them.
M:
(
;jJ Um-hum
.
V:
(
But,
then
I
don't know how to
do,
I don't know I'm gonna
that,
it's,
it's almost
as
if,
it's almost
as
if there's
a,
like
do
a,
this thing wrapped around
like
this,
uh,
this being.
I'm really
having
a problem with this
-
I
keep wanting
to wrap something around
this
sphere right
here.
M:
^
7} Um-hum.
V:
C
JaikJ.
and,
the essential
step
is
that
it
strips,
as electrons
are forced outwards
in this
sphere,
they are collected
in
this trough
that accelerates
them
in
a circle and what
it essentially does
it
forces
them around,
uh,
in
a,
in
a magnetic,
electromagnetic
field.
And
the electromagnetic
field,
uh,
because
it,
it
kicks
them
into
a
tighter concentric circle,
accelerates
them.
So when they exit
the
end,
these electrons are not only,
uh,
at
a very high energy anyway
because
of
the amount
of
that,
they,
they're really moving,
uh,
and
then coming out
of the end
of this
thing they strike
these tubes
in
some way.
It really fires these tubes
up.
They're
like pumped across
these
tubes,
uh,
I'm having
a
lot of trouble drawing how that's
done.
M:
V:
(f
^
Um-hum
,
um-hum
.
Uh,
and
these,
these tubes are bundled,
but
they're bundled
in
a crazy way.
They're bundled
so that one assists
the other
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and
so
that
it's a cascading effect.
So that there's
a,
there's,
instead of
a,
a sporadic output
there's
a very coherent cascaded built
up,
uh,
driven kind of output coming from these tubes
and,
uh,
it
doesn't
last
long,
it lasts for a few seconds.
And
I was thinking
about
the,
uh,
the wave front and I've pretty much come
to the
conclusion that,
uh,
that
these
things are absolutely
in a very short
wave area.
They are either gamma rays or they're X-rays,
like an
X-ray laser or something like
that.
Really potent
stuff.
M:
^
\um-hum.
V:
Uh,
operating
in
the,
uh,
in
a real
short wave front
area.
And,
and when
it strikes
the
target,
the
target's
are,
uh,
missile
components, that's what
I
think the targets
are,
they're components
of
missiles,
not
so much warheads,
but
as
they are
the guidance systems
for missiles.
M: Q
~| Hum.
V:
-ij
|
you know,
like the
solid state electrons,
the chip electrons,
and
the guidance system for the missiles.
Plus,
I
get another real
interesting thing - side thing - here's,
uh,
here's
a
side effort
going on with this
that has
to do with,
uh,
it
takes
a large computer
to operate
this,
so what we're
looking
at also
is we're
looking at
a
condensed version
of a very fast computer that operates
this.
Remember we
talked about sequencing and that timing was everything.
.
.
M:
^
/Um-hum.
V:
£
J ...and,
that one of
the problems
is
that
the thing that does
the Timing,
corrects
the timing and everything
is,
uh,
a real number
cruncher.
.
.
M:
'Um-hum.
V:
(
? ... monster of
a computer...
M:
(
Jum-hum.
Vi
^...and
the problem
is
that
this
thing
is not going
to be
effective unless
it's
in space.
It's,
um,
to
fit
the thing
in
space,
this
thing won't be
in space floating around up here,
because
(a.)
that violates agreements,
(b.)
it's
a sitting duck circling the earth
in a fixed orbit
or just sitting
in a fixed orbit.
So what we're
essentially looking at
is we're looking at
a device that's
launchable.
In other words,
when, when we determine
that
the Soviets have
launched
say a group of
ICBM's,
then we would fire
this sucker
into space
it
would seek out
the
ICBM wall and eliminate
it.
So we're
looking,
we're
looking at
a,
a device that's really
smart,
that
can handle
big,
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big time timing sequential problems
in a very short period.
So we're
looking at a whole new animal
in terms
of how smart
it
is.
And
I was
thinking of that,
and
it's really interesting - I'm getting the
impression of a bottle,
a bright blue bottle that
is literally
a
computer operated by light.
Uh,
I don't know how to explain
that but
I
think that
s the extra laser
that
I'm seeing.
It's actually a
computer that
s
light operated.
In other words,
it operates
on
photons
instead of hard circuits,
electromagnetic circuits,
so
it's
literally impervious
to the EMP or EPI or whatever they call
it.
. .electromagnetic interference from atomic blasts.
And,
that's
a
very,
uh,
a really powerful computer but
it's crunched down
into
a
really tiny size.
.
M:
[ Um-hum.
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
I
...so
this,
and,
and because of
its
size this thing actually
glows blue white when
it operates.
^1
c
^thri
• Hum.
. !
/You
know,
it creates
so much heat
itself,
the computer does,
Is
is real
interesting,
we're right
on,
this device
is
so far out
on
the edge of stability that,
uh,
quite
literally,
I mean
it's
self-destructive.
In order for
it
to work
in
its final
state,
it
destroys
itself,
it generates
such
intense power...
{
') Um~ *hum.
I
_}
---that
it
lasts
for a microseconds,
but
the wall
it puts up
aestroys everything
in
its way,
in
its path,
uh,
we're talking
a
neat concept,
and all
the dynamics
that are going into
it are
really complex and really state-of-the-art
stuff.
D Um-hum
/_
uh
«
I.
1 essentially see what
I was seeing this afternoon only
T~see
it operating and
it's,
it's,
uh,
this volatile beam coming out
of
this
thing.
I just wish
I could - the key to
this whole thing
really,
the key to the whole thing and
the metal alloy or oxide alloy
rods
that are bundled - that's the
key,
and how they're bathed with
the output from this,
uh,
laser
initiated controlled explosion and,
and
the elements from that
— the,
uh,
neutrons
that are stripped from
this are done
in a very,
are stripped
in and
a very special way.
It's
like,
uh,
it's something different from electromagnetics and
I
can't,
damn,
I can't put
it together.
V-—N
5 It's not
in our vocabulary.
<!
^/ No
>
that
' s probably the problem
is
that
I have nothing to
[escribe
it with and
I can
see
it,
you know,
I
can,
I can
taste,
I
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u- ^
can,
I know it's,
uh,
uh,
if
I was gonna draw
it,
uh,
I wanta do this
really fancy scribble and,
uh,
and,
and,
what's interesting about
this
is and again we're going back to the timing sequence and all that kind
of stuff,
what we're really talking about
is we're talking about an
expected occurrence of the neutrons coming off this
thing.
In other
words,
the way they orbit and everything it's all predictable.
It's
all been predicted.
So they strip off the maximum number of neutrons
and accelerate them down to these lasing metallic alloy rods or
whatever they are and there's,
it's not a donut wrapped around this
thing but
it's a special
shape.
It's
like,
uh,
it's designed to
capture where the neutrons will be which
is really interesting.
It's,
it's
like there's,
you would look at
it and say "that's really weird
the way they did that."
But
it's taken months
of,
you know,
using the
computer
to map how that will be done without interfering with
the
process
itself.
M: p
>
*~| Um-hum.
V:
(
J You know,
it's
like being
in the right place at
the right
time'".
And,
I don't know how to do
that.
It's like
a
M:
(~
~^J Sounds
like
it's hard
to capture
in a drawing,
it's hard
to
capture
in language.
V:
(
7} Yeah,
and what I'm trying to do
is
I'm trying to capture
the
Fight kind of words
to describe
it.
It's not like a double helix,
it's not like
a donut,
uh,
it's like
a,
uh,
it's a specially
configured - it's not electromagnetic either,
it's something -
it
like
traps
the higher orbits of
a neutron that come off or electrons
that
create neutrons or whatever.
I don't even know what the hell I'm
talking about here.
You know,
I think physicists would have troubles
sitting down and conversing on
this.
M: P
~j Um-huh
.
^
V:
*
i It's beyond,
it's beyond
the come,
it's,
uh,
they could
theorize
it
but,
when
it comes
to actually doing
it,
it
takes
literally sitting down with a super computer
for months
to come up
with come conclusions,
or arrive
at
some conclusions,
so Demo One
is
a
film of what happens
in
the desert.
Demo Two
is actually seeing
this
thing done
in a
lab scenario on a smaller scale using this massive
laser device
to
initiate
a controlled nuclear detonation which
produces huge outputs of neutrons which are stripped using this double
helix donut device which
is
then pumped or pulsed across
a very
special alloy type of rod,
and
it's real
short,
I mean
it's not
a
major
thing.
It's just
a little bunch of rods
that are
set up
in a
certain way and neutrons are pumped across
it.
And
its acts
like
a
directional anode and
it puts
out huge. massive
like
10 12 outputs
of
X-rays
in
a coherent wave
front.
And these things come boiling out
at
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ft
ft
ft
ft
ft
C
^
the end and literally heat
the air molecules uh,
that
travel they
travel through.
Burn them up - just,
they burn up
the air molecules,
create
a vacuum around the and hit
these targets which are parts
of
pieces of guidance
systems
to rockets and molecularly
it shakes them
to pieces
- vaporizes,
vaporizes
them.
And when
I
say the,
the output
of the output
of,
the demo device
in the lab
is
like
1 l/10th and not
even
that,
like l/50th
the power of
the one
that's,
that's done with
the detonation
in the desert.
M:
'
Hum.
V:
_
The one
in the desert
is just unreal,
it's literally powered
with a thermonuclear device,
I mean
it's output
is outrageous.
On
a,
on
a scale of
to
the
lab demo
is
a
1 and the one
in the desert's
is
to the minus
10,
I mean
it's just got an outrageous output
-
it
would melt anything.
And,
and
in space the near vacuum of space
it
would put
a small wall up of X-ray or gamma ray output
that you
couldn't fly a gnat through you know without cooking
it.
It would
shake everything molecularly apart
and,
and
it wouldn't
last that
long, ;you know,
seconds.
And what's neat about
it
is
the only
side
effect
is the thermonuclear device going off
in the atmosphere,
you
know,
above the atmosphere
in
space,
so you would have
a probably
a
real
severe EPI problem or EMP problem or whatever you call
it that
would
last for a few minutes actually a little more than a few
minutes,
but
the result
is
that everything manmade above
the
atmosphere would cease
to function.
It would literally be blown
to
pieces.
Real overkill
for
eliminating just
a few hundred ICBMs
or
whatever.
Probably
of these would launch one right after
the other
for
a 20-minute period would eliminate any
ICBM's
the Russians
ever
launch.
M:
(
Hum.
V:
] That's essentially
it.
That's,
that's all
I'm getting
for
this event
stuff.
Now I'm getting some other real
interesting things
on
the
side I'm getting specially designed computer
stuff
to operate
these
things,
to
aim,
them,
to handle whether or not
they should go
off,
or how they go off,
uh,
super high speed very powerful
miniaturized computers
that run very hot.
I
see them literally
glowing bottles of coolant.
I also
see,
uh,
a second remote
site
in
the desert
somewhere that's definitely an air base where
the devices
are put together and tested.
I
see,
uh,
uh,
hum,
got kind of
a flash
and
input of guys running around with guns which
is real
interesting,
uh,
some kind of heavy security force,
this
is really over protected
stuff,
uh,
I
see variations of this,
theoretic variations
of
this
that
operate not only
in the gamma X-ray area but are
- you see
this
is
capable
of generating
a whole
lot
of different kinds
of wave
fronts.
And you can generate microwave,
you can generate gamma wave,
you can
generate X-ray,
the key
is
the rods.
It really has
to
do with the
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lasing components and
I think the problem what they've really
ironed
out
is how
to,
how to time the thermonuclear device
to capture
its
output
in terms of neutrons and focusing.
They've learned
to do
that
and now they learned about
the lasing rods and how to develop a
coherent wave fronts.
And
its combining the two and putting that
into
a vehicle that's launchable - it's really
interesting.
Making
it
small enough but violent enough to do what
it's gotta
do,
so we're
looking at some really advanced state-of-the-art stuff.
And
I
think
one
of
the real surprises that they've got
in just the past couple
of
years
is
the ability
to theoretically test
it by using both
the high
energy laser at
this
lab.
They were unable
to generate enough output
power with
this
laser before
it really use
it
to any extent
in testing
this.
And now they've been able to do
that,
really,
really produce
the kind of output that's necessary and control
the scenario
to
at
least generate
some minor tests they're major tests but
I mean an
a
way
that's.
.
ff—l
^
Um~hum.
Sure.
__
... observable
in
a
lab
situation,
uh,
which,
again,
I
think
the breakthrough on that which
is
it's really interesting has
to
do
with something as
simple
as polishing the
inside of
that
sphere.
/ So that they're not only initiating
the,
the miniature
sun
to
’burn,
but
it's actually reflected back
in on
itself.
It actually
collapses back
in on
it,
so
it's almost
like building
a miniature
black hole,
in
a bottle which
is really neat.
And,
and again that
in
comes
the theory
to this enormous amount
of resource
in terms
of
computer work and theoretics and
stuff,
and,
and that's
it.
And
the
most
fun out
of
the whole thing
is
that
they really do initiate
this
thing using this high energy
laser.
You get
to see
the air molecules
boil.
Maybe
via,
I wouldn't watch
it except via maybe
a remote
camera,
uh,
I get
a feeling
if this thing ever went haywire,
you know,
I mean there'd be X-rays everywhere,
so
it's probably a very,
uh,
heavily built shielded room that they use
as
a target.
Um-hum
That's
it,
that's
it,
that's go ’for broke
stuff.
] OK.
I hope
so.
) Thank you,
7 It
seems
to be awfully fantastic
stuff.
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