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SESSION 3, 4:00 p.m. (U)
May 7, 1987 (U)
V:
M:
V:
M:
M: f
1 So,
disregard what you did this morning,
in terms
of trying to
add
to
it
") OK.
| And focus on the activity and what expands out from that.
(
}
OK,
(
] Allright.
V:
/)
(Lots of silence)
Hmmmram.
Getting an impression
of,
uh,
really
loud,
loud noise like a like a bull-horn on a intercom-type of
speaker system.
Somebody's talking through
it.
There's an and that
uh,
there's an echo like
its
in a large day type of area.
There
is
uh.
. .uh.
.
. I'm trying to think of a way of describing this perception.
I'm looking at
a very long box.
Uh,
square tube box,
uh,
it's
uh,
let
me think about this a minute
It's really an interesting thing -
I
can't,
uh,
I can't quite fasten
it
to anything.
It's kind of
like
a.
It doesn't start out straight -
it starts out
funny,
ah,
weird,
it
starts out
-
it's got
a joint system and then
it goes straight ... it
does something like
this.
But
this,
there's something wrong with
this.
I feel
like I'm trying to describe
in detail something that's
very esoteric.
It's,
uh,
it's,
this
thing's squared -
it has
squared
corners and edges and what
not.
M:
(
Um-hum.
V:
) Uh,
very much like a wave guide-type of thing.
M:
} Um-hum.
V:
f And,
it has something flowing through
it.
M:
{:
see.
i
V:
^That's something flowing through
it
that's,
uh,
not
a very
lengthy wave
form.
It's
like a very short wave
form.
It's guided
through this thing and
it,
and
it,
comes down at the end of this thing
and washes across
like a row of,
like,
uh,
I want
to say that
there's
a spiral at
the end like.
And there's
like a row of,
of things
sticking out
at the end of
this
spiral.
They,
they're densely packed.
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And they're like thick wire - real thick wire - only they're not wire.
It's,
it's some kind of like special alloy or special metal or special
something.
They're fixed but they're bunched.
And they're all
generally pointing
in the same direction and,
uh,
this stuff comes
down and washes around or over and through this.
And when
it hits
the
tips of these things,
it,
uh,
it does
the same thing that a laser
does.
It excites,
it excites
these,
these metal rods.
But they
don't,
uh,
it's not like glass tubes
in a laser - these are not like
gas-filled tubes or
have the big thing that blows stuff
in and sucks
things out,
you know,
the gas exchange where you're exciting a whole
bunch of,
uh,
electrons or something like
that...
M:
/
Yeah.
!'
V:
/
But these are like electrons coming down this,
this tube and
they they're washing across this little batch of wire.
I—
-
i
M:
||;
}
It's
a particle beam in other words of some
sort.
V:
j^..
jjyeah.
But that's not correct - it's more
I wouldn't call
it
a
particle beam -
it's,
it's,
these rods are then emitting a really
short wave-type of output.
A really short wave
thing.
A we're
talking a wave form that,
that
it
is
super,
super short.
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
3 Um-hum.
)
Uh,
it's a ray,
OK,
some kind of
a ray.
But
it's a real
short
wave.
Shorter wave
than
a microwave.
A microwave
is pretty short
short wave.
This
is shorter.
I don't even know what microwave
is.
Microwave
is
(couldn't get word here).
I can't remember - this
is
even shorter,
this
is real short wave
stuff.
We're talking about,
I
don't know in angstroms,
we're talking something less
than 10
angstroms.
Which
is real short.
That would be
less
than,, less
than
10 angstroms probably.
Anyway,
it bunches together and what happens
is you get
this,
this coherency coming out
the
end,
this coherent wave
front,
if you will,
and
it actually,
it actually,
uh,
I get the
feeling like this
is a inside of a tube.
!
-"I
OK.
[
’
I
^
This whole thing
is compressed
inside of a tube.
And the
tube
is a vacuum or as near a vacuum as you can get.
And
it extends
outward
to,
uh,
to a target place.
\<r~
»
I
'
Do you have any feeling for scale on that?
|
;
j
Large
.
M:
Room size,
or bigger?
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V:
No,
but the tube
is probably something on the order of,
uh,
uh,
I'll say
feet
in diameter.
It's really interesting because
I,
I
see the tube there but then sometimes
I don't see the tube.
I
see
it
operating
in an aeroplace space and then
I sometimes
see
it operating
in air which
is real
interesting.
What happens when
it operates
in
air
is the air molecules actually burn up.
It super heats the air
molecules,
they actually self-destruct or excite themselves out of the
way or something.
M:
\ Um-hum.
And,
and
I get the feeling that
I,
you can actually see
it
with your eyes.
This
ray,
when this thing comes out
in air molecules.
It's like
it doesn't shoot out of the end in a race along to the
target
it's
like the whole thing past
the ray slowly comes
in the
beam.
It's
like
it appears,
you know,
this entire length of
it here
appears
like
its super heating the air molecules that
it's going
through
to the point
that they actually white-out
in some way.
l) Um-hum.
J
And down on
the other end
is
the target
and,
uh,
I'm trying to
determine what
that target thing
is.
I'm gonna do
a better picture
on
page
two
.
M:
}
OK.
V:
(
I
see
this
in a vacuum sometimes,
and
I see
it also going
tnrough specialized gases
like,
like they're testing to
see
its
penetration power through different gaseous mixtures ah different
mixtures of oxygen or atmosphere or something.
And,
uh,
I also get,
I
get
the feeling like the target's hard -
it,
it's
like of
a hard
target.
And,
and,
by that
I mean like metal - it's
a metallic
target,
uh,
varying degrees of thickness,
shielding,
and,
uh,
parts of
the
target being tested are covered with solid state electronics,
chip
electronics,
uh,
it's like pointing
it at your home computers
to
see
if you could burn your home computer up and then putting your home
computer at
a varying or differing modalities of shielding to
see what
effect
it has
on
its capacity to operate.
Urn,
I,
I get
the feeling
like this
is really,
this thing
is really hazardous
to human
life.
M:
Um.
V:
'L.
iP 1 mean
1 wouid11
' 1 stand
in front of this sucker.
This
is,
this
is really
I mean,
it will really damage a hard target,
but
it
ain't nothing like
it will do to
the human body,
I mean,
it will just
cook,
it will just vaporize the human body
so to speak.
Soft targets
wouldn't be
instant
inferno
in front of
it.
It actually boils
the air
molecules
in front of
it.
Uh,
but that's not exactly right,
it's
like
they all boil
simultaneously,
all the way down the
line.
M:
(”
V:
(.
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M:
1 Urn-hum.
V:
'
It's like
these,
it's
such,
this 10 or less Angstroms of wave
front are
so
- the wave and frequency
is
so small
that,
uh,
the,
uh,
air molecules get
in
the way simply because they are getting sighted
by
it.
So
it turns
the air molecules
into
a frothing mass.
And
it
has
to do with,
uh,
the real main function we're talking about here
is
these,
these metallic
-
I keep wanting
to
say metallic -
I guess maybe
because they've got
so much oxide
in
them.
They're
like,
they're
like
meant
to be destroyed by this
thing.
When electrons hit these,
these
thick wires,
this mass of material, what happens
is this mass of
material,
uh,
lases out or puts out
this coherent wave front,
and,
it
| only does
it for just
so long and then
it,
it burns up - it's no good
anymore
- or
it's,
uh,
it,
it does something
to
it,
urn,
its like a
cluster of wires.
This mass of oxide material all held together but
they're,
but
they're drawn out and
in straighter fibers
like.
I
think
that's
to give direction to the wave,
the coherent wave fronts or
something -
it's
a huge mass of electrons
that's forced across
the,
this
-
I wanta say electrons,
anyway
I don't what
the hell
is.
And
I
go back up this
line and
I,
I can't help but go back to
that,
you
know,
that circular sphere which
is...
M:
f~
\ Yeah.
V:
J- ...in the other building.
But,
I'm getting a real
interesting
picture of
this other sphere,
uh,
M:
I
know.
This
is,
this
is another building. .. somehow. ..
.
V:
Yeah.
This
is
in,
we're now
in C building...
M:
j Oh,
that's
in C building.
V:
This
is
in C building here.
This,
if
I remember
right ... somewhere between here and here
is
the wall of C building,
right,
I'm not
sure
if that's not
in B building and the tube extends
through that connector piece
in
the C building and.C building
is
predominantly the target building - where
the target's contained or
held.
M:
/ Uh-huh.
V:
M:
V:
But you know all
the test equipment
is
set up on both sides
of
the target building.
This
is,
I'm getting
a real
interesting
perception of this now.
It's one
I didn't have earlier.
*
'
OK .
Let's do something that's changed,
or,
or...
,
^
__ Essentially what
it amounts
to
is
I'm seeing
a circle,
you
know,
and inside the circle
-
I wish
I could draw this,
ha,
uh,
inside
the circle
the circle's split
like,
uh,
into all these different
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M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
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DP96-00789R0032001 60001 -9
i
jj So this
is kind of a production phase and
its routed through
here and here ...
)
Generates
this
ray,
this,
uh,
yeah,
yeah.
I
I
see,
OK.
M:
V:
this
)j And,
uh,
uh,
this,
it takes these megalithic
lasers
to
liight
Um-hum
j For this
to cause
this.
; Um-hum.
V
fn
th
+
S
°Utm\
of this sucker ri^ht here
is quite destructive
in terms of
its wave front,
uh,
but
this thing rapidly loses,
uh
strength over distance because of
the air molecules and but for
test
purposes,
uh,
that's
it,
I just
said a key thing.
This
is a testing
apparatus
: for the concept perhaps.
g
l] Um-hum.
+ h
.
words
’
somehow,
uh,
this
is emulating the process
is liL™
1 H?°
ne
ln
in a m°re
large Way
*
In
a hUge WaY
•
Uh,
this
IS
like
a little example of something,
uh,
I'm trying,
i' m trying
to
igure out what
the
- as best
I can figure on
a hard target what
this hardT^
d°
h
S
i
h8y
' re
t0 effect
-
actually physically destroy
this hard target.
And what we're talking
in hardened that
it's
eavi
y shielded,
the solid state electronics of this target are
heavily shielded,
protected,
uh,
what's
interesting there's,
god
this
is really neat because this unfolding - there's a twofold,
there's
a
twofold thing about
-
I wanta write something else down before
I
forget
it - this
is
uh,
test vehicle for cdncept.
in
the hard
target
V r°f°
ld
al1 °Ut fr°“ thls
'
is -
»»* «- out can a hCd
arget
be destroyed,
or at
least made dysfunctional,
but
b
you find
out can you build
a hard target
that can't be dysfunctional,
made
dysfunctional.
So
it's
like you get
a twofold benefit out of this
-
testing this
thing.
S
O Sounds
like
it could be a competitive process
- one team
rrpenetratru^ ^
“
invinoible and one workin*
attempting
^
U xt
s like exactly right,
you've got,
you've got,
well
you've
got a whole number of different things here.
You've got this machine
which we
11 call A machine,
uh,
producing larger amounts of power.
Then you've got
a B problem which
is stripping off the power for use
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in a new way of lasing we'll call
it.
Then you've got this machine
w^ich
is
a whole new form of luminous
laser.
I'm not sure laser's
r^ght.
There's
a different word.
Phaser,
phaser.
That's what they
use on Star Trek.
M:
j. Ha!
Then
it was
something more advanced than a laser.
V:
.
J Yeah,
it's
like next generation.
It's
a phaser beam.
And
it's very possible that
it might be
in
a microwave region because
microwave keeps popping
in my mind,
but
I don't think
so.
M:
^ Um-hum.
V:
Uh,
I think we don't need all of
this
to do the kinds of
outputs
in the microwave region that we could do to create
this
elffect.
Uh,
I think microwave
is,
uh,
the problem with microwave
is
there
is no way to generate
a coherent microwave front but
then
I
njight be wrong about
that.
But
I think this
is
a different kind of
wfave.
Th^s
is really a coherent wave.
And the key here
in part C of
tlhe problem
is these little metallic rods or wires or whatever use
t|his bundle of stuff
is - that's
the key to
it.
And,
uh,
I
look at
this and
I,
this concept down here and
I get an
impression of,
I just
Want
to put
a big thing like this
that says
"Focus here."
Which
is
real
interesting like this
is deliberately controlled nuclear
explosion and you focus
it all right here.
That's
a wave
front
I
keep
wanting to draw esoterically -
I don't know how to draw
it
mechanically.
M:
j
~
| OK.
V:
(
j
I
say
to myself
it's
impossible
to do that but then...
M:
|.
| Well,
when you say esoterically what do you mean by that?
V:
||
^Meaning that,
uh,
I
think,
I
think the concept's really down,
think
in terms
of,
of what's going on here
in the event.
The
concept's really ironed
out.
I
think where there's
a problem
is -
the
timing.
Let me write
that
down.
M:
|
!
J Yeah.
V ;
jJ Timing
is,
uh,
is critical.
And
in
the time that they're
having a real problem with
the timing because element
A, well
I subsequent
to that - there
is
some other thing back here called lasers
which we'll call
1-A.
The 1-A ignites
A.
A
is actually destroying C
in some way - eating
it
up.
This
- outside
this bottle or this
control mechanism this mirrored
sphere,
uh,
A couldn't happen.
It
couldn't happen and
if
it did
it would be out of control.
And
in the
event when
it does happen inside
this control
sphere,
it's,
uh,
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isn^
d
iull
S
hf
fiClent excitation t0 see
-
to test the concept.
But
it
isn
t full blown.
As much as,
I mean,
we're talking a really complex
buut'^v
3h&hly too
l ye*™and years and years and years
to build
concept
is ten% if
Vehl^
e
. f0r the realit* of the concept.
The reai
concept
is
ten foid removed
in terms of complexity or difficulty from
what' s
all
. has .to do with timing.
Because
in the real concept
what
s happening
in A,
this little bitty fire here,
we're talking
lncreasmg that on a magnitude of lo-« which
is really up
e, which means
that there
isn't
a container that's gonna hold
it
Int you°can
thef
re gonna do that which
is real
interesting!
But you can see
the megalithic
increase
in the output...
<
J Sure.
...up here through
this,
this,
these key elements
if thev
were
increased,
if
this
is,
we're talking billions and billions of
Jen foL^crefse
1^ ^ tMS
+
teS
i
Vehicle
-
and *>u can imagine what
a
ten fold increase m power
to
the output of this thing would be
I
getting
U
b6lleVably d6StrUCtive
-
That essentially what
I'm
OK.
bein,
S
A"?-'’
6"!1"®
1S
-
thi”k 111 tbe elements of this are
being tested,
that
s what's going on right now.
They're not firimr
it
up,
they're testing all
the elements.
ll
[
j
I
see.
(
I Everything's being fine
tuned and calibrated.
The
test
is
vet
to come.
it's all being fine
tuned and calibrated
y
Uke tL? I°
Uld A® analogous
to Preparation for a launch or something
like
that where there's
lots of activity and...
g
^7
J
Yeah.
i-
••• andI
things being done
to test
the component parts of
it
-
to make
sure they're
in working order.
lkedba4
Uh
’
i
thl
S
’
th
i
S WZ
ld b
f-
amazine to watch -
I “ean
talk about
leedback.
i mean,
when they fire
this sucker up
the,
the
the
uh
the atmosphere will glow around
it.
p
ne,
the,
the,
uh,
£e. ^
ss66
’
so there
is
something,
there really
i s something
to
1 Oh
,
sure
Jit's not just uh... watch the dials kind of thing...
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r
J oh,
no,
or.
r
think there's an awful
lot of dial watching
involved
in
it in ~*zms of the time and sequences and everything and
frying to perfec-
ibis,
the actual outcome,
but
in terms
of,
uh,
watching the
busir»*_s,s end of this sucker,
uh,
I'll bet ya
it boils
the,
uh,
it boils
-^be atmosphere around
it.
M:
"
0 Hmmm.
V:
)] i'll bet
actually see
this,
this,
phaser type wave come
out of there
-
it.* 5
just,
or just appear between between that and the
target -
it actually looks
like
it's boiling and the atmosphere around
it, which would crs-ite a white haze or something,
uh,
I'll bet ya
that's visible.
I'll bet ya there
isn't very much of a hard target
to
stand against
it.
ix
wouldn't explode
itself.
It's molecules would
just become
so exc-ted by
it that
it would literally implode or
explode.
M:
J Hmmm,
I'd be
curious
as
to whether something like that would
be detected outside
of this environment?
V:
uh',
I
think, the problem,
the problem
is,
and
it has something
to do with, the vacuum,
using a vacuum tube.
.
.
M:
l^/Urn,
hum.
V:
Q ...or testing
it
in molecular air,
uh,
the problem
I
think
is
^the wave format
is
so
short that the distance
is critical .. .yeah.
y.
/
"J
i mean it's OK to
test
it on the surface of the earth like
in
an atmosphere but
in deep
space,
for
instance,
it would be really
effective because there would be no air molecules
to block
it.
But on
the surface of
the earth
if you tested
it
the wave components,
the
components of the wave are
too short
so they're sucked up by the air
molecules
M:
V:
^
^ Oh,
I
see.
’
"1 So, when you get
such a cushioning effect from the surrounding
atmosphere that
if you were
to back off
say 30 miles from this
it
would be totally undetected,
undetectable,
it just wouldn't be putting
anything out,
uh,
it wouldn't be giving anything out that you could
detect.
So,
in terms of detecting at a distance,
say
if you were
to,
run a satellite over this area to try and detect what was going on
it
would be damn near
impossible to do
that.
M: f
J( Urn,
hmm.
y.
i_
_ .^You can certainly detect
it
in space,
though.
If you had your
detector
in space and this was operating
in space that would be
the
last thing
saw. ..that would be the last thing you would detect before
it ate you,
uh,
it's really interesting.
I also think one of the
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other problems possibly with
this,
I get a feeling like,
uh,
the wave
front on this
is also highly effected by gravitational pull,
things
like
that.
Things
that you don't normally have to worry about with
light,
photon-type activity.
You know on a standard a laser outside
the fact that the laser gets really weak over distance.
Well,
this
will get weak over distance unless
it's
in a vacuum.
If you're
in a
vacuum like
in space or near vacuum,
like space,
then the distance on
this
is really great
in terms of power.
I was just seeing these hard
targets being literally shaking inside
out,
it's
like
the molecules
inside the hard targets were just vibrating instantly
into,
into,
uh,
such a hypervolic action that don't even stay glued together.
They
just vaporized - the hard target,
uh,
of course,
the harder
the target
the less
it's damaged,
but there's still an awful
lot of damage
uh
plus there's another
thing.
The,
the real,
it's
all,
the whole’
thing's got experimental problems,
but the real problems,
the real
crux,
the state-of-the-art stuff
is right here
in C which
is
these
these components right here.
They get bathed by the output
of
the
the control exposure chamber,
but these
little rods or wires or bundle
of whatever they are,
sticks,
metallic oxide,
sticks or whatever,
these
ariodes.
.
.
M:
Um,
hmm
.
V
‘
.
.0 1 don't know if anodes
is
the proper word.
I'm reminded
of,
This
is really crazy - the association,
but on the bottom of
a boat,
to keep the metal on your boat from being eaten away through corrosion
and what not you put these
little nodes
so that,
you know,
the
salt
water,
they're soft metals,
the salt water attacks
those first,
you
see,
and eats those away,
and so you use
the rest of the metal on your
boat
- I'm not even explaining that right,
but that's what
I get
a
feeling about
these,
is
that
these actually attract the electron
stream or whatever
it
is and,
and,
the collision of
the electrons or
whatever with the molecular components of these oxide tubes or
whatever.
.
.
M:
^Um,
hmm.
V:
c~
7--- produces this really
intense ten fold increase or ten
thousand fold increase wave front output.
They get real excited and
they put
these waves
out.
So
it operates very much like
a
laser,
but
it ain't a laser.
It's,
it's more like a phaser,
you know.
I don't
know how to explain that,
it's a different kind of wave than coherent
light waves.
M:
17 yeah.
V:
j
^7 xt ' s
in a different frequency spectrum altogether.
I
M:
(L —K] Tt sounds
like,
it sounds almost like
instead of,
uh,
transmitting light,
you're transmitting energy.
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i
^
Yeah,
right,
exactly,
absolutely,
that's exactly what we're
talking about here
is an energy laser instead of a light
laser.
But
it
takes,
it takes,
this huge complex system of light wave lasers
to
ignite this controlled explosion
in this sphere of mirrors and then
that
is absolutely forced to fold down upon itself to produce even
larger amounts of energy and then energy which
is really seeking to
expand outwards produces these orbits of electron matter or whatever
that are stripped of them to bathe these rods
to produce some other
iorm of
laser.
(M speaks but can't understand.)
Yeah,
but this,
this
part can't get,
I don't
if
it's because
it's
so short and looks real
Complex.
.
.
M:
(
M:
*"] Um
,
hmm
.
J ...or
if
it's because
it's
like a segmented tube.
J It's funny because that's where you started.
j'Yeah,
and
it's a real complex segmented tube of some kind.
M:
J Um,
OK.
V:
H But
it necks down there,
it becomes very focused.
M:
i^Oh,
5ee
'
V:
f[ But
I
think it's strictly
a vehicle to get
these,
these
Electrons out of here over
to here.
Some electron wave guide for lack
pf a better word.
M:
(
\ Hmmm.
Is
it,
but,
it's
a transportation medium,
you would
pay,
it's not something that,
that modifies
the...
V: ^
Y No.
it,
doesn't,
I don't think
it modifies
it
in any way.
As
a matter of
fact,
there may be a huge electromagnetic field wrapped
ftround
it...
M:
^
/ Oh,
I
see.
V:
JJ ...in order
to get
the electrons
to travel down
it,
or stay
Nvithin
it.
You know,
it compacts
them maybe and transports
them.
As
a matter of fact,
it,
the reason why it's segmented may be because
it
poils around this
sphere.
Actually,
it comes out of this sphere
in a
Coil and then dumps straight
into that
one.
But
I feel
like they're
peparate places.
They may,
ah,
shoot.
Uh,
I know when this stuff's
fired there's nobody
in the room.
At least this kid wouldn't be
around.
No,
I wouldn't mind being on the opposite end observing,
you
know,
not on the end of
it but
to the side observing the
impact area
br the target area,
that would be really interesting because
I think
it's very coherent,
very directed.
I don't think there's anybody down
there at
all.
I think it's probably all watched with TV's,
uh,
I
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can't
imagine like
if element C loses
it's coherent wave front
it
s no
longer putting waves out
in front of
it and just
starts putting
it out
sporadically
in all different directions,
it would kill everything
within so many feet.
I suspect that this element
is packed
in,
uh,
built
inside a block house concrete-type of place,
and that's why
I
think this wave guide
is used to get the electrons over there.
I keep
wanting to say electrons but
X don't think that's what they are —
highly excited matter,
let's put
it that way.
M:
^
j So now if you were to step back from this perspective a little
'bit
,
how
is this all taking place or does
it have any relationship to
what we did this morning
in any way or
is
this
a process that's going
on
in totally different part of the compound or a totally different
place,
or where,
where are we now
if we expand out from this
a little
bit?
V:
C
OK,
A would be
in the B building.
C
is
in C building.
M:
J OK,
so then,
V:
(
Vof,
or,
maybe C
is
in a connector part and the target's
in C
building.
M:
I
see.
V:
(
J Test equipment's on both sides of
the hard target area,
uh,
I
get
the feeling
that C building
is basically a block house type,
uh,
type
of place.
But,
but,
then
I also have
to say and
I go back to
multiple teams which
I
should put down here,
uh,
multiple
teams,
uh,
there's just
a whole
lot going on here,
you know like A it's
a whole
different
team of folks,
and there goal has nothing to do with
C,
uh,
A folks over here,
their primary goal as a team
is
to fire up this
controlled explosive device and maintain
it put out ever larger
increasing amounts of energy from
it.
Uh,
then there's a whole
different
team that's playing with
this,
this phaser thing down here.
And within the phaser team there's a whole different team that
s
concerned with trying to find a more
stable,
stable bundle of wires.
A more stabilized bundle.
A more focused output device.
Then there's
2 teams an A and B team at the hard target
site.
One
is trying
to
destroy the hard target no matter how it's shielded and the other
s
trying to shield
it no matter how hard they try to destroy
it.
And,
so there's
2 sub-teams
there.
Uh,
simply by changing,
I keep saying
these are
the
key,
this bundle,
this bundle of wires,
this bundle of
rods or
whatever,
by simply changing those,
you change the entire
output wave
front,
in other words whatever
is
in inserted here
is what
determines the wave,
uh,
how many angstroms
it
is,
uh,
how much energy
output there
is,
its coherency,
all these different things,
uh,
and
I
keep,
uh,
one of the other things
I keep finding very interesting
is
the
fact
that
uh,
in terms of controlled explosion,
the enormous
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amount of power this puts out
in relationship to how
it excites this
is nothing compared to what the real machine will
do.
I
feel
like
this
is all just
a mock up.
A test mock up.
This
is what we can do
within bounds
of,
uh,
within bounds of control,
or within bounds of
experimentation.
If you were
to build the real machine,
uh,
and put
it
in orbit or something
it would be
far less complicated on one hand
and on the other hand
it would be even more complicated,
uh,
but
its
power would be equivalent
to this -
it would be 10 times
10 more
powerful output.
You could literally put
a wall up - a big glass wall
that nothing could fly through
it.
An umbrella type of front.
You
can
imagine a huge bundle of key rods or whatever each one putting
out,
each one putting out a very tiny beam that 2,000 miles away would
be much wider and broader.
.
.
M:
(
^ I
see.
L
this
and,
[} And,
uh,
very
intense all
side by side you know its putting up
front,
like an arc
so many miles high and so many miles wide,
uh’,
M:
1 X -shield type
thing.
^ Yeah
,
but
it wouldn't
last
long.
M:
7 Oh,
I
see.
l
7 It wouldn't
be,
you'd wait until the
last second type
thing,
and
it would present this wall and
it would last maybe
seconds.
But
anything
in a depth of say 300 miles would be just vaporized,
it would
be
like
a curtain that would appear and disappear,
uh,
really,
really
Star Trek stuff,
man,
this
is really exciting Star Trek stuff.
I wish
I could figure
2 things out
in more detail.
And maybe
I well,
maybe
that will be something...
~J Yeah,
maybe that will come tonight.
J It will come
tonight,
yeah.
M:
J Yeah
.
V:
’
jBut,
uh,
that's basically
it,
I guess.
;
M:
C/ 0K -
V:
i
.
i
•
\liis
J So,
I'm gonna try to render something more
- maybe I'll
leave
alone.
I'm afraid
to mess with
this.
M:
/
:
o
/->
V:
<
Jl' 11 just darken
it
in.
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M:
-
. J 0K ’
allright,
we will stop
the tape for this
one,
that's fine
Tonight we're gonna have XXXX and the SRI folks all
there.
V:
j
All, watching this sucker go off.
M:
) Seeing whatever
is going on.
V:
L*
.
Maybe they'll all be standing around with their thumbs
in
their ears saying well
it should have.
M:
7 That's
true.
V:
,_7 We
; n wait and be surprised.
I know want
their electric bill
this place,
I'll
tell you
that.
M:
v
7 Makes your electric bill look kind of piddly
,
does
it?
V:
J It
sure does.
M:
-
comparison.
»
•
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SESSION 4, 12:00 p.m. (U)
May 7, 1987 (U)
M-
So,
here we
are.
It's a minute or so till
12.
Take a minute
^r so get yourself situated.
XXXXX
is on site again as are the
SRI
staff members.
They'll be acting as beacons
in this,
uh,
during this
pass and they'll be observing, watching the event
that or an event
that
is taking place at
this time and your job
is
to give a
description of
that,
of what's happening there,
what's of
interest
to
them right now as they're at the site.
y.
Hmm
OK,
let's
see.
Urn.
I'm trying
to,
it,
uh,
getting a
real
interesting
imprints here.
I,
uh,
I get sort of uh kind of
interesting,
uh,
I want
to say that
I'm,
you know,
that
I'm
envisioning this,
this,
uh phaser-type
of
thing,
but that's,
I'm,
I'm
seeing something a little different...
M:
!
Um-hum.
V;
1 um,
um,
uh,
hum.
I
feel
like I'm stuck between an overlay,
an
analytic overlay and an actual event.
.
M:
V:
M:
V:
c
“
Um-hum.
] And,
I
don't know how to rectify
that.
I
7 Can't quite
sort
it out?
7 No.
It's kind of
like,
an event but
it's
it's on film
too.
a,
kind of
like
M:
jTHum
.
V;
Which
is kind of
interesting.
M:
(
2 Um-hum
.
V
-
tl
-1 Uh,
I'm kinda torn between whether I'm seeing like
a remote,
"an event remote
to that actual place being observed there or one
that's on film,
or one that's on film combined with an actual event
going on there.
I don't know how to explain that.
Uh,
sort of a
package deal,
it's kind of
like,
uh,
uh,
I keep getting,
uh,
like
combination of two things - one's local and one
isn't.
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V:
~7 Uh,
one's observing something going on there and the other's
observing something going on somewhere else that's related.
M:
V:
1 So
it's
like maybe two sides that are
involved.
(
^ Yeah,
it's kind of
like there's two sides
involved.
The,
uh,
except they both mean the same thing,
uh,
I can't tell
if one's real
time
or not.
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
y Are they both participating
in,
in a common event,
or...
J It's
sort of a common event.
(
j Uh-huh
.
J I'll think about
it for a couple of minutes.
You can,
rather
'"than waste
the
tape - shut that off for
a second.
,
Qa11 right.
[7 Give me about
a minute and
I'll tell you when to start
up.
I]
OK.
V:
(
] I'm getting two things.
First off
I'm getting a presentation
c)f a film showing a device being tested somewhere else and then that's
followed up with demonstration of this,
this capacity,
this,
uh,
uh,
phaser-type of radiation machine showing
it's effect on a specific
kind of target.
So
it's
like a two-part
thing.
Only one part
is done
somewhere else.
And,
and,
I keep getting an impression of a place
even further
in the desert,
OK,
and what's interesting about
it
is
is
surrounded with,
uh,
hundreds of like
individual,
uh,
storage bunkers,
like everywhere.
I
think,
I
think what we're talking about here
is,
uh,
uh,
let's
see,
I'm having trouble defining between demonstration
of this device
and,
and a real,
well they're both real,
but one was
done beforehand,
and one
is being done now.
And the one that was done
beforehand was actually a device.
It was really
a,
a,
and
I keep
saying device,
I'm talking what I'm talking about
is
a bomb.
It was
actually used
in a demonstration type of effect
and,
uh,
it was
like
two ended,
it was double ended.
It had one end was,
was an actual
bomb that produced,
that produces or produced an output
that
initiated
a second bomb.
It produced an output
that
initiated this
ray,
if you
will,
but
it was all done,
uh,
like
in an underground test.
And then
they had films of this and they showed the outputs of this and they're
going into
a live demonstration using this laser to initiate very much
the same kind of outputs only on a much smaller scale,
so,
uh,
we're
essentially talking about
two kinds of devices doing the same
thing,
one on a large order of magnitude,
one on a small order of magnitude.
M:
Um-hum
.
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V:
(vr.
^And,
uh..
I'm getting a picture
of,
I'm getting a mental image
of this device,
thing that they use,
uh,
for like the canned
demonstration,
film demonstration.
And it's,
uh,
it's uh,
that's not
right.
Do we have an eraser?
Let's do
it this way,
uh,
um,
something's no-
right about
that.
It's more
like,
uh,
it's like an
underground thing that's,
uh,
demonstrated there's like a-uh, we'll
call
this an initiation device.
And what happens
is
this thing goes
off and
its fasrened to a little short piece of tubing that
is very
much like a wave guide and what
it does
is
it focuses,
um,
this
is,
uh,
focus
for,
focus
for,
it's the first thing I'm trying, what's the
first thing that happens from like a thermonuclear device like
a
thermonuclear device,
it's not even a thermonuclear it's a nuclear
device.
The first
thing that happens
is there's
a huge output of
neutrons and
it goes
into a second device and the second device
is
a,
uh,
thermo target.
And
then this
ignites,
OK.
And that becomes
like
a thermonuclear
type of device and that goes off and then fastened
to
the end of this
is
this cluster of these,
those rods, whatever you
want
to call
them.
Little lasing type
things.
M:
V:
|;
J, Um-bum
.
)
J
they produce
a massive output as they're enveloped.
Lasing
rtids produce
like
that.
This output.
And this goes down
a,
uh,
this whole
thing takes place
in a chamber under ground and this
goes down a tunnel and at the other end of this
tunnel you're down
let's say it's
a,
this
is ground level.
And you get down here
in this
chamber where they do
this and
it shoots down this tunnel a few
thousand
feet.
Meanwhile,
this thing's expanding over here - it's
actually exploding,
but
it happens
so fast,
uh,
this explodes but
before
this destroys
this,
it
ignites
it, with this massive focus of
neutrons.
When this
ignites
it
lases these which produces
the output
of,
uh,
gamma rays or whatever they are.
As that's being enveloped
these rays are racing down this tunnel which has blocks
in
it.
And
right behind these rays going down the tunnel,
these blocks are
closing.
And down here at the end
is a chamber of targets so also
there's sensing equipment down here so there's a secondary tunnel down
here.
And,
uh,
sensing equipment we'll say sensing.
This
is
the
actual,
uh,
this
is
the actual detonation place.
So this
is all
destroyed here,
but
it sends radiation down this tunnel and behind
this radiation which
is all very,
I mean,
everything's all
instantaneous almost speed of
light and this always happens,
these
shafts close down behind
it to minimize damage to the target area.
So
the only thing arrives down at the target area are the rays from this
thing which then shadow the target,
and,
and,
this
is,
this
is,
uh,
essentially we'll call this Demo One.
That's,
uh,
done at a remote
site,
of the site,
Air
’
,'Base,
uh,
lots of large bunkers.
Some
are out
in the desert.
That's Demo One.
|f
Then you get Demo Two.
Demo One shows this
is what
it
looks
like 'on
a full
scale.
Demo Two shows a more controlled thing going on
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V:
at the
lab.
And essentially what you got
is,
uh,
this thing all
hooked up
to all these
input,
all these different things,
lasers,
are
hooked into this sphere as
I,
as
I drew before.
C
hum.
M:
V:
M:
V:
M:
(S/NF)
And
it
in turn produces,
uh,
produces that giant electron
output
to,
uh,
to
sort of cluster this thing which puts out this ray.
This,
this
I don't even want
to use this picture cause
it's not very
good.
The problem I'm having with this
is
I'm,
there's
a big element
that's missing and
it's where
it's missing
is connecting this machine
to this machine.
There's something
in here that
I m not getting
a
can't.
.
.
j^) is
it the same one you were having trouble with this
afternoon.
.
.
"3 Yeah
,
um-hum
.
.
.
. same
,
same connection there?
(
>hat
I keep wanting to do.
is
I keep wanting to put the whole
Wing into an apparatus
that captures electrons and accelerates
them.
V:
(
M;
[I Um-hum.
?! But,
then
I don't know how to
do,
I don't know I'm gonna do
thatT
it's,’ it's almost as
if,
it's almost
as
if there's
a,
like
a,
this thing wrapped around
like
this,
uh,
this being.
I'm really
having a problem with this
-
I keep wanting to wrap something around
this sphere right here.
?) Um-hum.
(
Pi And
,
and,
the essential
step
is
that
it strips,
as electrons
Vre forced outwards
in this
sphere,
they are collected
in this trough
that accelerates them in a circle and what
it essentially does
it
forces them around,
uh,
in
a,
in a magnetic,
electromagnetic
field.
And the electromagnetic
field,
uh,
because
it,
it kicks
them into a
tighter concentric circle,
accelerates
them.
So when they exit the
end,
these electrons are not only,
uh,
at
a very high energy anyway
because of the amount
of
that,
they,
they're really moving
uh,
and
then coming out of the end of this thing they strike these tubes
in
some way
It really fires these tubes
up.
They're
like pumped across
these tubes
uh? I'm having a lot
of trouble drawing how that's done.
M:
V:
(j
Um-hum
,
um-hum
.
fi
i'lVh,
and these,
these tubes are bundled,
but they're bundled
in
Ws< a erazy way.
They're bundled so that one assists the other
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V:
M:
a*d so that
it's a cascading effect.
So that there's
a.
ther®'^’
instead of
a.
a sporadic output there's
a very coherent cascaded built
up,
uh,
driven kind of output coming from these tubes
and,
doesn't last
long,
it
lasts for a few seconds.
And
I was thinking
about
the,
uh,
the wave front and I've pretty much come
to the
cbnclusion that,
uh,
that these things are absolutely m a vfTy
®hor
wave area.
They are either gamma rays or they're X-rays,
like a
Xkray laser or something like
that.
Really potent
stuff.
(
\ Um-hum
.
Uh,
operating
in the,
uh,
in a real
short wave front area.
And,
and when
it strikes
the target,
the target's are,
uh,
missile
domponents, that's what
I think the targets
are,
they're components of
Missiles,
not
so much warheads,
but as
they are the guidance systems
for missiles.
C
l?™-
M:
V-
t
You know,
like the solid state electrons,
the chip electrons,
and
the guidance system for the missiles.
Plus,
I get another real
interesting thing - side thing - here's,
uh,
here's
a side effort
going on with this
that has
to do with,
uh,
it takes
a large compu
e
to operate this,
so what we're looking at also
is we're looking at
a
condensed version of a very fast computer that operates
this.
Remember we talked about sequencing and that timing was everything...
M:
(1
7 Um-hum.
r
~
7 ...and,
that one of the problems
is
that
the thing that does
the Timing,
corrects the timing and everything
is,
uh,
a real number
cruncher.
.
.
c
V:
(
M:
i
' Um-hum.
f
.
. .monster of a computer.
.
.
J Um-hum.
,,
“I
and the problem
is that
this thing
is not going to be
effective unless
it's
in space.
It's,
urn,
to fit
the thing
in
space,
this thing won't be
in space floating around up here
because
(a
that violates agreements,
<b.)
it's a sitting duck circling the earth
in a fixed orbit or just sitting in a fixed orbit.
So what we re
.essentially looking at
is we're looking at a device that
s launchab
e.
In other words,
when, when we determine that the Soviets have launched
say a group of
ICBM's,
then we would fire this sucker into space
would seek out the ICBM wall and eliminate
it.
So we're
lo°kl
"f
we're looking at
a,
a device that's really smart,
that can handle big,
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.
big time timing sequential problems
in a very short period.
So we re
looking at
a whole new animal
in terms of how smart
it
is
.
was
thinking of
that,
and
it's really interesting - I'm getting the
impression of a bottle,
a bright blue bottle that
is literally a
computer operated by light.
Uh,
I don't know how to explain that but
I think that's the extra laser that
I'm seeing.
It's actually a
computer that's
light operated.
In other words,
it operates on
photons
instead of hard circuits,
electromagnetic circuits,
so
it
s
literally impervious
to the EMP or EPI or whatever they call
it.
. .electromagnetic interference from atomic blasts.
And,
that's
a
very,
uh,
a really powerful computer but
it's crunched down
into a
really tiny size...
M:
'
Um-hum.
V:
s
\
...so
this,
and,
and because of
its
size this
glows blue white when
it operates.
thing actually
M:
n
^
/
j.Hum.
V:
/
J ',You know,
it creates
so much heat
itself,
the
this Ils real
interesting,
we're right
on,
this device
computer
does,
is
so far out
this
is real
interesting,
we
— *
—
the edge of stability that,
uh,
quite literally,
I mean
it's
self-destructive.
In order for
it
to work
in
its final
state,
it
destroys
itself.
It generates
such intense power...
M:
(
J Um-hum.
V;
i
...that
it lasts
for a microseconds,
but
the wall
it puts up
destroys everything
in
its way,
in
its path,
uh, we're talking
a
really neat concept,
and all
the dynamics
that are going
into
it are
really complex and really state-of-the-art
stuff.
M:
V:
V:
D Um-hum
.
L, J.
see
i
M:
$
Uh,
I,
I essentially see what
I was seeing this afternoon only
'it operating and
it's,
it's,
uh,
this volatile beam coming out
of this
thing.
I just wish
I could - the key to this whole thing
really,
the key to the whole thing and the metal alloy or oxide alloy
rods
that are bundled - that's the key,
and how they're bathed with
the output from this,
uh,
laser initiated controlled explosion and,
and the elements from that - the,
uh,
neutrons that are stripped from
this are done
in a very,
are stripped in and
a very special way.
It
s
like,
uh,
it's something different from electromagnetics and
I can
t,
damn,
I can't put
it together.
'Jit's not
in our vocabulary.
% l
No,
that's probably the problem
is that
I have nothing to
e
it with and
I can see
it,
you know,
I
can,
I can taste,
I
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can,
I know it's,
uh,
uh,
if
I was gonna draw
it,
uh,
I wanta do this
really fancy scribble
and,
uh,
and,
and, what's interesting about
this
ijs and again we're going back to
the timing sequence and all that kind
of stuff,
what we're really talking about
is we're talking about an
expected occurrence of the neutrons coming off this thing.
In other
wbrds,
the way they orbit and everything it's all predictable.
It's
all been predicted.
So they strip off the maximum number of neutrons
and accelerate them down to these lasing metallic alloy rods or
whatever they are and there's,
it's not a donut wrapped around this
thing but
it's a special
shape.
It's
like,
uh,
it's designed to
Rapture where the neutrons will be which
is really interesting.
It's,
it's
like there's,
you would look at
it and say "that's really weird
the way they did that."
But
it's taken months
of,
you know,
using the
qomputer
to map how that will
be done without
interfering with the
process
itself.
M:
>
j Um-hum.
V:
(
J You know,
it's
like being
in the right place
at
the right
time"
And,
I don't know how to do
that.
It's like
a
M: C
1 Sounds like
it's hard
to capture
in
a drawing,
it's hard
to
capture
in language.
V:
(
V/ Yeah,
and what
I'm trying to do
is
I'm trying to capture
the
Fight kind of words
to describe
it.
It's not like
a double helix,
it's not like a donut,
uh,
it's like
a,
uh,
it's a specially
configured - it's not electromagnetic either,
it's something
-
it
like
(traps
the higher orbits of
a neutron that come off or electrons
that
create neutrons or whatever.
I don't even know what
the hell
I'm
talking about here.
You know,
I
think physicists would have troubles
down and conversing on
this.
Um-huh.
situnf
M:
(j
"1
V:
f
j It's beyond,
it's beyond the come,
it's,
uh,
they could
theorize
it but, when
it comes
to actually doing
it,
it
takes
literally sitting down with
a super computer for months
to come up
with come conclusions,
or arrive
at some conclusions,
so Demo One
is a
film of what happens
in
the desert.
Demo Two
is actually seeing this
thing done
in a lab scenario on
a smaller scale using this massive
laser device to
initiate
a controlled nuclear detonation which
produces huge outputs of neutrons which are stripped using this double
helix donut device which
is
then pumped or pulsed across
a very
special alloy type of rod,
and
it's real short,
I mean
it's not a
major thing.
It's just a little bunch of rods that are
set up
in a
certain way and neutrons are pumped across
it.
And its acts
like a
directional anode and
it puts
out huge massive like
10 12 outputs of
X-rays
in a coherent wave
front.
And these things come boiling out
at
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M:
V:
M:
V:
the end and literally heat the air molecules uh,
that travel they
travel through.
Burn them up - just,
they burn up the air molecules,
create a vacuum around the and hit these targets which are parts of
pieces of guidance systems
to rockets and molecularly
it shakes them
to pieces - vaporizes,
vaporizes
them.
And when
I say
«je,
the output
of the output
of,
the demo device
in the
lab
is
like
1 l/10th and not
even
that,
like l/50th the power of the one that's,
that
s done with
the detonation
in the desert.
~j Hum.
r
The one
in the desert
is just unreal,
it's literally powered
with a thermonuclear device,
I mean
it's output
is outrageous.
On
a,
on a scale of
1 to
10 the
lab demo
is
a
1 and the one m the desert
s
is
10 to the minus
10,
I mean it's just got an outrageous output
-
it
would melt anything.
And,
and
in space the near vacuum of space
it
would put a small wall up of X-ray or gamma ray output
that you
couldn't fly a gnat through you know without cooking
it.
It would
shake 'everything molecularly apart
and,
and
it wouldn't
last that
long, ;you know,
seconds.
And what's neat about
it
is
the only side
effect
is the thermonuclear device going off
in the atmosphere,
you
know,
above the atmosphere
in space,
so you would have
a probably
a
real
severe EPI problem or EMP problem or whatever you call
it that
would
last
for a few minutes actually a little more than a few
minutes,
but the result
is
that everything manmade above
the
atmosphere would cease
to function.
It would literally be blown to
pieces.
Real overkill for
eliminating just
a few hundred ICBMs
or
whatever.
Probably
of these would launch one right after
the other
for
a 20-minute period would eliminate any
ICBM's
the Russians ever
launch.
f
L
Hum.
) That's essentially
it.
That'.s,
that's..all I'm getting for
this event
stuff.
Now I'm getting some other real
interesting things
on the
side I'm getting specially designed computer stuff
to operate
these
things,
to
aim,
them,
to handle whether or not they should go
off,
or how they go off,
uh,
super high speed very powerful
miniaturized computers that run very hot.
I
see them literally
glowing bottles of coolant.
I also
see,
uh,
a second remote site
in
the desert somewhere that's definitely an air base where the devices
are put together and tested.
I
see,
uh,
uh,
hum,
got kind of
a flash
and
input of guys running around with guns which
is real
interesting,
uh,
some kind of heavy security force,
this
is really over Protec
e
stuff
uh
I
see variations of
this,
theoretic variations
of this
that
operate not only
in the gamma X-ray area but are - you see
this
is
capable of generating a whole lot of different kinds of wave fronts.
And you can generate microwave,
you can generate gamma wave
you can
generate x-ray,
the key
is the reds.
It really has to do with the
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^
lasing components and
I
think the problem what they've really ironed
out
is how
to,
how
to time the thermonuclear device to capture
its
output
in terms of neutrons and focusing.
They've learned to do that
and now they learned about the lasing rods and how to develop a
coherent wave fronts.
And its combining the
two and putting that
into
a vehicle that's launchable
- it's really interesting.
Making
it
small enough but violent enough to do what
it's gotta do,
so we're
looking at
some really advanced state-of-the-art stuff.
And
X think
one of the real surprises
that they've got
in just the past couple
of
years
is the ability to theoretically
test
it by using both the high
energy laser at
this
lab.
They were unable
to generate enough output
power with this
laser before
it really use
it
to any extent
in testing
this.
And now they've been able
to do
that,
really,
really produce
the kind of output
that's necessary and control
the scenario
to at
least generate some minor tests they're major tests but
I mean an a
way that' s.
,
.
M:
V:
M:
V:
n
Um-hum
.
Sure
.
C
(7
"7; ... observable
in a
lab situation,
uh,
which,
again,
I
think
the bFeakthrough on
that which
is
it's really interesting has
to do
with something as simple as polishing the
inside of that
sphere.
c
C
Hum.
'S
to
/ So that they're not only
initiating
the,
the miniature
sun
but
it's actually reflected back
in on
itself.
It actually
collapses back
in on
it,
so
it's almost
like building
a miniature
black hole,
in a bottle which
is really neat.
And,
and again that
in
comes
the theory to this enormous amount of resource
in terms of
computer work and theoretics and
stuff,
and,
and that's
it.
And
the
most
fun out of
the whole thing
is
that
they really do initiate this
thing using this high energy laser.
You get
to see the air molecules
boil.
Maybe
via,
I wouldn't watch
it except via maybe a remote
camera,
uh,
I get
a feeling
if this
thing ever went haywire,
you know,
ry
,
uh
,
I mean there' d be X-rays everywhere,
so
it's probably
a
heavily built shielded room that they use
as a target.
Mi
r
\
Um-hum
.
V:
(
That's
it,
that's
it,
that's go
for broke stuff.
Mi
( OK.
V:j
J OK.
I hope
so.
Mi:
) Thank you,
Vi
] It
seems
to be awfully fantastic
stuff.
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Final
Report
Covering
the Period
15 November
1983
to
15 December
1984
GEOPHYSICAL EFFECTS STUDY
(U)
December
1984
oved For Release 2001/03/07
333
Ravenswood
Avenue
TOR conn
.
r*aKlo*
: CIA-RDP96-00789R0032001 60001 -9
Menlo
Park,
California
94025
*
U.S.A.
cm
INTI
MPK
• TWX:
910-373-2046
I
Approved For Release 2061/03/07
: CIA-RDP96-00789R003200160001-9
I
OBJECTIVE
(U)
i
\
The objective
of
this
effort
is
to
investigate
the
possible
effects
of
ambient geophysical/extremely
low-frequency electro-
magnetic
factors
on remote viewing
(RV)
performance
'(U)
RV
(remote
viewing)
is
the acquisition and description,
by mental
means,
of
information blocked
from ordinary perception
by distance
or
shielding
.
Approved For Release 2001/03/07
(.
CIA-RDP96^jp0789R0032001 60001 -9
r Release 2001/03/07
P96-00789R0032CTQ1 60001 -9
©
Final
Report
Covering
the Period
15 November
1983
to
15 December
1984
December
PERSONNEL IDENTIFICATION AND SELECTION
(U)
SRI
Project
Copy
No.
This document
consists of
pa
d For Release 2001/03/07
: CIA-RD^96-00789R00320tl60001-9
333
Ravenswood Avenue
Menlo
(415)
326-6200
•
Cable:
SRI
I NT'
*
U.S.A.
1-373-2046