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INTERVIEW
This will
be
a CENTER LANE
interview for
17 February
1983.
The
time
is
0830
hours.
Relax
and
concentrate
now,
relax,
relax,
relax
and
focus
your
attention
right
now
on the building
in
the photograph
I've
shown
you.
As
you
do move
your
awareness
to
the
inside
of
the
area
you
know as
the left wing
of
the building.
Do
this
now.
Here
there's
a.... a
persistent
impression
of.... of
a
room of blueprints.
Descr ibe
.
They
are
related
to
some... to
engineering
to. a..., very
extensive
blueprints,
to
industrial
engineering .. .Many,
many,
many
people,...
about
forty
involved
in
the... in
the
studying
of...
a
refinement
of
these
plans.
The
picture
is
long,
long
tables
with
extensive
blueprints
with
thirty,
forty
people
are
working
...during
the
a
cool down stage
the,
impression,
the
impression
of
a
man,
definitely
an
engineer,
bald, 5-5
feet
-
inches/5
feet
-
inches.
He's
wearing
glasses,
and
mustache,
appear
to be center
of attention
in this endeavor.
His activity.
Say again
Report his
activity.
He's
ahead
of
the
of
this
group responsible
for
the,
for
the plans.
He's
the program chief,
if you wish.
Holding
your
fix,
holding
your
fix,
orient
this
area
within
the
left wing.
It's
a
top
floor.
Top
floor
is
the
a,...
the. a
..the
lower
floors
are
the
individual
offices
of
the
smaller
group,
responsible
for working
on
other
parts
of
the plan
addressing
an individual problem.
Holding
on
the
top
floor
in
this
area,
describe
the
objects you have called blueprints.
Blueprints
with
the
lines
and
scales
lows
shafts,
joints ... (mumble
)
(mumble),
Hydraulics....
<n.
j35
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Stfci.
SI
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These things
you
call
blueprints,
describe
their
physical
construction,
the material.
Ah,
okay.
Extremely
long,
I
believe
the
distinct
impression
is
that
very
long,
a
drafting
table,
but
in
length,
is
as
much
as
or
feet,
with
this
plan
unfolding almost
to
the
length
of
the
table,
so
that... so
that
a portion
of
the
plan
can
be
examined
in
a,
within
the
width
of
three
feet,
and
for
whatever
length
you
want.
But
then
the
plan
unfolds
physically
in
greater
widths
.
Okay,
I'd
like
to
interrupt
for
a
moment
and
give
you
some
instructions
and
then
have
you
reaccess
the
target.
Focus
intently
on
this
area
and
these,
I
assume
you
have
some
drawing
type
thing
you’ve
discovered
here,
some
drawings
of
some
kind.
You've called them blueprints.
Yes,
blueprints plans.
Now,
the material
on which
these things
are drawn
Paper,
blue,
bluish white paper.
All
right.
Bluish
ink.
All
right.
Are there other
—lines
with
degrees
of
lines
interrupted
lines
that
mechanical drawing of
lines.
Are
there different colored
lines?
Dark blue
and light blue,
heavy lines and
fine
lines.
Now,
deeper
and
deeper,
deeper
beyond
the
actual
drawings
to what
the drawings depict.
Industrial complex,
factory,
plant...
All
right.
Moving
now
from
the
top
floor
of
the
left
wing,
moving
now
from
the
top
floor
of
the
left
wing,
continue
to explore
the
left wing.
The middle
floor
of
the
sub-offices
are
the
a
the
smaller
groups.
There's
a
storage
area
in
the
basement.
There's
a
tube
of,
tube
of
a
container.
I
think
the
storage
area
for
the,
for
the
plans
used
in
that
wing,
is
in
the... It's below the street
level
(mumble).
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#66:
I
have
no
further
questions
concerning
the
left
wing
of
the
building
in
the
photograph
I've
shown
you.
But
I'd
like
to give you
a few minutes.
#08:
No,
I don't have anything more
(mumble)
#66:
Fine.
Remember
now
the
perceptions
you've
had
and
I'd
like
to ask you now
to draw those perceptions
for
me.
#08:
All
right.
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DRAWING EXPLANATION
#08:
Okay,
in
Sketch
#1
which
is
very
simple,
it
is
entitled
"overview
of
the
building",
simply
an
effort
to
pinpoint
the
specific
area
of
interest
so
I
have
labeled,
front
of
the
building
in
the
appropriate
section
and
the
streets
surrounding
that
area.
I
didn't bother with what
I
call
the
right
side,
because
we've
all
ready done
that
and
I
pinpointed
through
an
arrow,
the
specific area
of
interest.
#08:
In
sketch
#2
is
simply
a
two
dimensional
sketch,
entitled
"area
of
interest"
and
sub-divided
into
top
floor,
mid-level
area
and
the
below
street
level
area.
Top
floor
is where
the
or
specialists
or
engineers
work
on
these
huge
blueprints
that
I've
described
in
the
session.
The
middle
level
area
are
the smaller
groups
with
smaller
offices
comprised
of
to
5 persons
addressing
specific problems
that
relate
to
the overall
blueprint.
And
level,
the
storage
area
which
is
somewhat
of
a
secure
area,
by
the
way,
you
just don't
come
in
and
out
there willy-nilly.
There's
a
guard
system
and
there's
identification
system
and
what have
you.
It's
serves
as
blueprint
storage
area
in
these
cylinder
type
containers,
cardboard
containers,
that
are
stored
in
there.
In
dimension,
proportionately
speaking,
I've
simply
drawn
two
lines
that
would
indicate
a
general
ratio
of
the
area.
Okay.
This
is
below
the
street
level,
in
the
cellar,
if
you
wish.
Okay.
Now,
you
have
any
questions
on
that
or
anything
about
the
blueprints
that
I
may
not
have said?
#66:
Okay.
You
said
that
in
the
area
where
you
saw
these
blueprints,
there were
large tables?
#08:
Yes,
very
long,
long
somewhat
narrow
tables
that
I
would
describe
them
as
about
three,
three
and
a
half
feet
wide,
maybe
20,
feet
in
length
with
these
long,
long
blueprints
laid
out
on
the
tables.
The
blueprints
were
all,
the
portions
that
I
saw
were
about
3,
and
a half
feet
wide,
but
they were
folded,
in other words,
you had another
or
and
a
half
feet
above what
was
on
the
table
and
perhaps
another
3,
and
a
half
feet
underneath.
So we're
talking
about
a
very
huge
thing,
a
very
huge
blueprint.
That's
the
best way
I
can describe
it.
#66:
Okay.
You
observed
behavior
or
activity
while
you
were there.
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#08:
Okay,
sketch
#3
is
an attempt
to give
an
impression
of
the
blueprint
table
as
it
appears
and
to
further
define.
It's
a
drafting
type
table
with
a
perceived
green top about
foot
in length
and
about
to
and
a
half
feet
wide.
The
blueprint
is
in
reality
equal
to
or
bigger
than
the
table,
in
both
length
and
width.
I
don't
know
the
length
and
in
width
it
is
folded
in
three,
is
overlapped
and
underlapped,
really.
So
that what
is perceived
on
the
table
is
on
third
of
the
blueprint,
either
the
top
third,
middle
third
or
the
lower
third.
The entire blueprint
be
estimated,
I
would
assume,
would
be
about
feet,
but
I
have
no
feeling
for
the
actual
real
dimensions,
It
could be
feet,
feet,
feet,
just
simply
know
that
what
is studied
on
the
table
is
just
approximately
1/3
of
the blueprint.
And
if
attention
is
focused
on
the,
say,
the
top portion
of
the
blueprint,
then
you
have
to
fold
the
blueprint,
turn
it
over
and
put
on
the
table.
If you want
the middle
section,
then you would
fold
the blueprint
underneath
and have
the
top
section
and
the
lower
section
folded
upon
itself
so
that
the
middle section would
be perceived.
Now
as
to
contents
of
the blueprint,
I
can not
draw
that.
I
can describe
it.
It's
grayish
white
paper
with
heavy
blue
lines
with degrees,
with
cylinders.
It's
a
mechanical
type
drawing,
type
blueprint
with
heavy
lines
interrupted
lines
with
degrees
and
symbols
that
I
do
not
understand.
There
are
fine
lines
and
there
are
heavier
lines,
depending
on
what
pen
or
whatever
ink
or
whatever
was
used.
But
it
gave
me
the
impression
of
hydraulics
and
mechanical
engineering.
There
are
joints,
there
are
representations
of
steel,
again, steel
joints
and
long
rods
and
cylinders
and
hydraulics
and
this
type
of
thing
and
it's
just
much
to
complicated
for
my
head.
But
that's
the
feeling,
the
impression
that
I
received
about
the
contents
of
the
drawing.
Is
there
anything
else
I
can
add
like
shed more light?
#66:
No,
Okay,
that's
fine.
Is
there
anything
else
you
like
to add?
#08:
No.
#66:
Okay,
good.
es;mv
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AGENT REPORT
for us* of this
form,
F PA 30-1/<C); AR JR I- 130
:hp
: -ropenent ag«nty
i
.
the
V
NAME of SUBJECT Oft TITLE OF INCIDENT
IffPORT Of FINDINGS
SG1A
SG1A
f the Assistant CM of of Star# for Intelligence.
]
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C<ATt SUMmlTfO
I
j
CONTFOl S/M601 08 HIE NUMBER
i
CL-996/8210/08
On
Febyiai^^^^^^^^jour ce
CL- 08
was
interviewed
concerning
During
a
previous
interview
( CL-989/8210/08Tconducted6
January
1983)
Source
was
unable
to describe
one
section
of
a
building which
Source
called
the
"Left
Wing"
of
the
building
.
This
interview
was
an
attempt
to
have
Source
describe
this
section.
Source
stated
substantially
as
follows:
On
the
top
floor
of
the
left
wing
of
the
building
was
a
room with drafting
tables
to
feet
long
.
On
the
tables
were
blueprint
plans
.
Source
described
the
blueprint
plans
as
being
almost
as
long
as
the
drafting
tables
and
up
to
feet
wide
.
The
plans
were
folded
into
approximately
three
foot Wide sections sections
so
that
they could
be
examined
on
the
tables
.
The blueprint
plans
were
bluish
white paper
with
heavy and
fine
lines
of
dark
and
light
blue
.
The heavy
lines
were
interrupted
lines
and
were marked
with
degrees
and
other
symbols
that
Source
did
not
understand
.
Source
further
described
the
plans
as
being
mechanical
drawings
related
to
industrial
engineering.
Source
believed
the
dr awi. ngs
to
be
of
an
industrial
complex
,
a
factory
or
plant
.
These
drawings
represented
steel
joints
,
long
rods
,
cylinders
,
and
hydraulics ;
all
of
which
was
too
complicated
for
Source
to
understand
.
The middle
floors
of
the
left
wing
of
the
building
were
individual
offices
.
In
these
small
offices
work
was
done
on
specific problems
that
related
to
the
blueprint
plans
on
the
top
floor.
Below
street
level
was
a
blueprint
storage
area.
Here
there were
cylinder
type
cardboard
storage
containers
.
This
was
a
secure
area
with
a
guard
system
and
an
identification
system.
Personnel
activity
within
the
left
wing
of
the
building
was
focused around
the work
on
the blueprint plans
on
the
top
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i Tmb mam! and organization oi jptciM aocm
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7 /VC L
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Is
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OATf SUBMITTED
\
NAMl OF SUBJECT OR
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SG1A
3. CONTROL SYMBOL OR F ft E NUMBER
CL-996/8210/08
-1
4.
REPORT OF FINDINGS
floor.
On
the
top
floor
approximately
to
specialists/engineers
worked
on
these
blueprints.
In
the
middle
level
smaller
offices,
groups
of
three
to
five
personnel
addressed
specific
problems
(not
further
identified)
that
related
to
the
overall
blueprint.
Personnel
on
the
top
floor
made
entries
and
amendments
(not
further
identified)
working
on specific portions
of
the blueprint.
The
man
responsible
for
the
blueprint
plans,
the
"program
chief"
(not
further
identified)
on
the
top
floor,
was
an
engineer.
Source
described
this
man
as
follows:
1 4 ”
-
' 5
tall
Bald with
a mustache
Wore glasses
This
man
appeared
to
be
the
center
of
attention
for
all
that
happened
concerning
the blueprint plans.
No
further
amplifying
information
was
obtained
from
Source
during
this
interview
.
Attached
hereto
is
EXHIBIT
I,
drawings
provided
by
Source
concerning
the areas described
above
.
AGENT" S
NOTES
:
After
the
completion
of
the
interview,
> Source
spontaneously
volunteered
that
the
"program
chief's"
name
might
be
Molinikov
( phonetic
)
.
TVffO NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT
A.
SIGNATURE OF SPECIAL AGENT
(oritetease ^00/08/08 ? : ^
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INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY
COMMAND
EXHIBIT
COVER SHEET
SG1A
SUBJECT:
FILE NUMBER:
a-wano/o*
PREPARING UNIT:
AGENT REPORT DATED:
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insures
I A
La De
l
!
(1
Jan
78)
r?%