#1 OK. #66 Now describe it. #1 Large..large square opening. 28-00788R000100120001-8 A wall with large platforms on the side and..uh..got overhead tracks like inside the building. See..the..uh..the overhead tracks. #66 OK. Now I don't want you to get into the building yet. IT want you to stay outside the building. #1 That's outside the building. thing there cover. There's a..there's a roof #66 OK. Moving, moving now 50 feet from the building. #1 OK. #66 Now describe the opening down at your level. #1 Uh..it's a..it's a..large square tunnel. Looks like the other end of the ramp. 5 feet above the water. It's a..open about..about #66 OK. There's a..it..you're standing on water, still. Is that what I understand? $1 Yes. #66 Alright. And...it's...the building is what? Explain to me a little bit more. #1 Uh, .walls..wall of building an opening. It's up high. is in front of me and there's It's up high. Bottom edge is about..wait a minute..I'm having trouble here...s..-. +15 #66 OK. Relax and concentrate. #1 There's a..look like a platforms. They go across..go across the wall. #66 OR. #L The bottom has openings in the...... platforms and there's (not audible) catwalks coming out from the platforms and openings......tall like an opening (not audible) Approved For Release 200 00788R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 Cis sa LiemaGa)0788R000100120001-8 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 $1 #66 #1 #66 Alright. What's your position of observation? In the middle of..a...gray square. Alright. Now, stand on the platform on that catwalk. ...they're different. Catwalks come out of the platform, OK. I'Lll...standing on the platform. Alright. Now. Look back where you came from. Look down. .what's down.. Water. Alright. Turn around 180 degrees and look down. What's down? Nothing, It's wall. It's wall. OK. There's a..stuff behind a wall. Very..very strange. There's a..there's a some kind of a..some kind of machine, behind the wall ....(not audible)..or something. Large.. large engine type machine. OK pee eens I don’t know what it is. Is this inside of the building or outside of the building? It's in the bottom of the building behind the wall. I want you to move out away..outside again, back on the water where you were. Back out to the 300 foot mark, 300 feet out. Tell me when you're there. OK. OK. Now, I want you to scan from the extreme left to the extreme right so you can see the whole in-surface of that big building. From the extreme left to the extreme right. OK. How many openings are there? 788R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/@@¥@staum el #66 #1 #66 #1 +20 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 0788R000100120001-8 Three. Three openings. Describe which one we were just at. Which one had you previously been describing? Middle opening. Alright. PAUSE There's some minor difference-they all look alike. -ehave my back on some kind of door.....back to the thing that's closed...or all three doors are alike.. all three tunnels are alike. See catwalks in the middle. OK. To the left there's a..there's a catwalk along the wall. There's a platform, and there's a..a..like..another catwalk. On the left third..there's another catwalk. On the right there's another catwalk on the right wall. OK. WNow....--describe your position of observation. Got one of these..my back to the sea. »eand what's in front? building and the bays..the parking bays. Alright. Now we're going to try something new here. I want you to stand there, looking at the building, just like you're doing now. If I understand correctly, you're standing in the water, the sea to your back and the building to your front. Is that correct? Yes. Alright. Now listen very careful. While you're standing there I want you to close your eyes. Close your eyes, eventhough your still standing there, but you can't see anything at all. Have you done this? Yes. Now, when you open your eyes again, it will be January 1, 1980. When you open your eyes again, it will be January 1, 1980. I want you to describe the area at that time. 798700788R000100120001-8
&-00788R000100120001-8 #66 Open your eyes now. PAUSE #1 OK. There's no water. I don't see any water, but I see a.e.l see activity and I see..uh..huil forms.. there is a..there is water in the area but it's very low and for some reason it's ...massive movement of the water..there's alot of bubbles in the water. Somebody's working in the water or something. There's alot of water +25 movement. There's not as much as before and there's hull shapes and there a..there's a back..backs are all open on them. ...-like a (not audible)feel like very far away. There..a.ethere's..they're doing something in black tubes. #66 Where are these? #1 They're in the open part of the back deck of this.. AER TE NTE ETN uh, structures. #06 Where are the structures? #1 They're on the ships on the submarines. #66 Where are the submarines located physically? #1 They're sitting in the parking bays. Very square.. and the water's...water's kinda boiling up around 'em, bubbling up around ‘em for some reason, #66 Now, back into the description of what they're doing with the back decks of the submarines. Tell me about those. #1 There's large, lagge black tubes sticking up. and there's, there's people inside the tubes and they're working. EE eel #66 Alright. #1 Don't know what they're doing. ‘TF yirein these tubes. There's twelve tubes on one..from what I can see. #66 How many submarines are there? #1 I see four, but the right bay is empty. The right, front right bay is empty. They're working on the second from the left. They're doing something with tubes Approved For Release 2000/0a4Q% 5-90788R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/08 #66 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 Approved For Release 200Q/g3/07": 96-00788R000100120001-8 Alright. Fine. That's very good. PAUSE How far along are they in their work? It appears.........that they're taking out old tubes and putting in new tubes... Some are..some are out and they haven't put in the new ones yet. Putting in a q@ifferent kind of tube. They're putting in another kind of tube. One tube"s almost out now; the rest are..... and except for two, three, they're changing the top. Am I understanding you to say that you are seeing both the old style and the new style at this time. No. I just noticed this old one they're taking out. Old tubes. Tell me why the new one is unique. Lt etter; it’s gota larger diameter and it's a bit longer. And it has a...there's something about.....there's something about the way it's inseptsd that.......- Do these tubes that you're spanning run horizontally or vertically as relationship to......(not audible) Up ang down earth. But not, not very vertical. They're i¢ . . cannon somewhat. Camttdl towards the rear, it looks like a cannon. They go in at an angle, They're empty..... I don't know.csccce OK. Now let's focus your attention on the description on these four submarines. An overall description of the four submarines. I want you to think back to this morning eeeeons .Uh.....these....uh...... (pause)....these are.....uh....- .e-e-ethese are good.....these are high-class submarines. hese ars phages, These aren't new...they are old ones. I..l've....I'm getting the heavy nuclear feeling about them. I cannot... I have a question I want to ask before we go on with the description of the submarine, if you will bare with me for just a minute. How did they come to get in the building..... in the bays, in the parking bays? How did they come to get in there? 00788R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/0 #01: #66: Approved For Release 2000/ 88R000100120001-8 Feel like my body's moving around. What is your pégition of observation? Uh..I'm on the, on the conning tower of the third submarine... and I'm kinda laying..on my left side. All right. Now, stand down on the foredeck of the submarine where the hatch is. Which hatch? The little one or the big one. The big one. Okay. Now, from the submarine look up. What is above you? Rows of lights. Two kinds of lights. I feel...I feel like eea..0ne light and a “light type. Feel heat from one of the And further upecece. Uh...girders..-construction girders. Move up the girders. Now looking back down describe the area from that perspective. PAUSE Uhe.«»(not audible) looking down on...three big bays there's aeeee ‘How:high are you? Maybe 100 feet...no not that high...55 or 60 feet. Are you on the inside or outside? I'm inside. All right. Fine. Tell me about the three big bays. There's four submarines in the two right bays and there's none in the left bay. All right. What's to the front of the submarines? Platform. 13 88R000100120001-8 i fa
Approved For Release oo0ded te en ESE Tb7e2R000100120001-8 +50 #66: What's to the rear of the submarines? “A wall. A wall and some doors. How do IT get the submarines out of here? You open the wall. All right. Fine. This concludes the amount of questions that TI have about this target. This time I'd like to give you the opportunity to say anything that you would like to say about this target. - PAUSE T'm..I'm having a lot of difficulty with the end of the building. I..ae.elook, look for the submarines on the end of the building, and I see the building, and no submarines, and I.eslook, look at the submarines..and, I look up and I seeeeee. urine »eea Gifferent building from the inside and I know that that wall is the..uh..wall of the building. All right. Fine. I think you've done very well. I want you not to be too concerned now about your confusion. This is why we moved you ahead in time because we believe this area %® be ina state of flux, right now, under construction and changing. That's why we moved you ahead in time to when it might be completed or when we might have a more firm situation. So, I don't want you to be concerned about your confusion. Uh...#07 asked me about a square that I drew on my last drawing, ands oUlecs Outside the building area? Yes. All right, and if you'd like to explore that at this time, you may do that. There is a-e-it's some kind of a nav-aid. The square's dee. a electronics and a little building in it. Some kind of a nav—aid. It..a.they...direct shipping or something there. Some kind of a navigational aid to that port. That's what the building is. Appears to be old, though, for some reason or another. Maybe it's a little out of state-of~the~—art... or something Old fashLonedecssccvccvevesveseveseseesesseesecs 14 Approved For Release 20 scheme Copter yet 788R000100120001-8
Approved PP OM #66: Approved Far-Relgase 2000/¢ ror Release 2000 on ee enon 201209" I think. I thought it was a box, but it's a little building. All right. Are you looking at that.e.at that little building now or are you looking at it in 1 Jamuary 1980? I'm looking at it now. All right. That's what it is. PAUSE That's all I got. All right. Move your arms and move your legs and take a deep breath and sit up and draw. PAUSE How do you feel? For some reason, today my arms are going to sleep. It's like I, I can't even feel the pencil with Tomececsesescstnere’s a veeel guess page 1...what I'11 do-is let's just see what I can draw about the bays and the way it, it looked.sees  There*s am weeethere's a catwalk type thing down the left side wall, and there's a platform that comes out from this wall. Goes all the way across, like this, and you have to imagine this wall being here. Then, there's another one over here that comes out; then there's..uh..two more catwalks going like this. Of course, these are.uh.eall these catwalks things are very long and... this distance in here is very large...and these go down to the water. That's a wall over here. Down here on the end there's another wall of some sort, and over here there's. .uh..that's tunnel type entrances and this is the one that I was in. I get the feeling goes into the building. for some reason. There's another one, and there's..those track-like things come out of here and go in different directions. And, there's water down here. Write the word wateraceseses Yeah. Now, those are three bays, right? Yeah. Yet there is four submarines. Oh, yeah. There's..uh.spage 2 looking down from the top there's eeuh..that's the wall of the building. The long wall. g : GARDE IEr007 SARQAGIORT 20004-Ra11. and that's the sea Miisioil there's. «uh. «two side walls 2 |
! Appygyed For | elease 2000/08 rt 23 the si 8 86RO004 90120004 walks. There's a platform at the end. Two more catwalks...this...and there's the..like tunnel ‘ways or ramp ways, I guess...through the wall, and the submarines are apart like this. There's nothing in this one. They're all pointed this way, and those first in the bay....they're working on this one.....and there's something different about this one. It's an older one. I don't know how to explain that. I just sense that it's an older sub..eeand there's a lot less water in this, in these baysecee. in January 1980 which is this....than there is in the bays here. Okay. You never saw the bays in present timee I never was able to develop you to see the bays in the present time. It was only after I sent you to 1980 you saw the bays. Yeah. I..well, okay. That's probably analysis on my part. But, I'll tell you that in 1980 Jamary there's less water there for some reason. That's fine. The water then you perceived when you were (not audible). I don'teeeeeany other time, yeah, any other time.....-and. he. sails on the submarine. I don't..first..uh..ethe back deck comes out of the water like this. This is like..uh..let's calli this water here; there's like a rise, thick rise in the sail. There’ a_sail, and it's shorter than our submarines. The front deck goes out like this and drops way in the water. And the submarine is actually much larger, and here, it's like rectangle on down the side o € numbers. On the sail...there's nothing at all that I could see protruding up above the sail on the sub...but this area back here is where all the plating was opened up and they were...they were working here. There's like tubes canted this way. Those are tubes. Yeah...and, there's a very large hatch up front. There's a very small hatch here. There's no other markings on the submarine. Very strange. And, I don't see any apparent ornament of any sort. I can't think of anything else. Okay. Can you explain a little bit about your feeling of nuclear? I was trying to decide whether or not they were nuclear powered or nuclear armed. And, for some reason, I kept thinking powered, nuclear powered. But I, you know, I get, I get confused when I start trying to detail nuclear anything, but, I just know that there's something nuclear about tem. I think it's probably powerede Some reason I couldn't say armed. Couldn't say armed for some reason. I don't understand why, but I just couldn't do that. As they're sitting in those bays, they're just nuclear powered. Let's put it that way. Approved For Release 2000/08/97 GiB.Bpae00788R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 1000/6 ETE RESE Gr 2870000100120001-8 #66: #66: Approved For Release 2000 Okay. You did make a comment that the tubes were empty. Yes. These tubes wereeuheeyou know..they're just like some kind of tube and they're sticking up out of this, these very complex type thing down heree They're side-by-side, couple of tem are sticking up further than a couple of the others. Some hadn't been touched at all, and they, they were extracting tem this waye And, the ones they were putting in, they were doing some kind of modification down in here, and they were, they were just putting in...it seemed like they were opening ‘em larger, you know, making tem larger, and there was kind of a design difference on the tube for some reason. What about these tubes that were different? Oh! That...in the row of ten or twelve it may be that there's 10 that lookalike; 12 that don't. Back here there are two smail tubes. And, they're real small and they're a...they're straight up and down and they're very short...eand I'm not...these are different, you know. I don't know what those are. They're different. You know, they're entirely different from the big onese But, I..I get a strong feeling that functionally they're very different as well. They" re there for somethingerrceceese but, I don't know what it is ft ¥ecri:-t @ cannoling like this. You know, I ret a. aoe almost in “these that the cant in these tubes might be the wa ave to be now, but not the way they had to be before, you know. like that might be part of modifi- cation. The fact that they're slanted now might DE ev vvsccccccceccsere Yeah.eeand..-l'm not looking at any other part of the submarine and they could very well be even..eyou knoweeesome other severe modifications to it somewhere, you know. Like a...-double the width or something. I don't know. But, I almost get a sensation Lkeesessethis section of the submarine in its entirety is being modified or changed..-that I put in brackets here. It's like that whole thing....I mean gu and all change But, that might be wrong. That might be analytic. just get that feeling. Okay. Now, I have a question I wanted to ask you beforeeeseces that even this morning the question came up.....something about short submarines and long submarines, and then this afternoon you seemed to be concerned about short submarines and long submarines. Will you kind of think about that for a. minute? 88R000100120001-8
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