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TRANSCRIPT
HU-1083/8A05/01
This
will
be
a
CENTER
LANE
interview
for
0900
hours
April
1984.
Relax
and
concentrate
now,
relax
and
focus
your
attention
solely
and
completely
on
the
building
in
the
photograph
I've
shown
you.
Focus
your
attention
now
and
describe
the
upper
floor
to
me
.
Mmmm
,
got
a. ..it's. .a
side
staircase
to
the
top
floor.
It's
in
a
closed
hall,. .stop
at
a.. large
room,
it
' s ... formal
meeting
room.
...A...
area
that
the
staircase
goes
to
is.. got
a
lower
and
upper
door
in
the
staircase.
Mmm,
I
just
see
a
single
straight
hall
with
ah... door
at
the
end,
four
doors.. five
doors,
three
of
them
on
one
side
and
two
on
the
other.
Smaller
rooms,
seems
to
be
a
door
in
the
middle
of
this
(mumble)
hall
and
it's
open,
slight' wedged
open.
...There's
ah.,
exposed,
exposed
lights
in
the
ceiling
in
the
hall,
....
like
parts
of
the
ceiling
are
open
Trying
to
focus
on
one
of
the
rooms
so
I
can
start
describing
the
rooms.
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#66
:
I
will
wait.
#01:
Got
one
room
with
ah.. table
top
or
counter
top
in
the
center
of
the
f loor
counters
wrap
around
two
walls,
portion
of
the
third
wall
Wanting
to
put
canister
like
objects
on
the
counter
tops.
It's
made
out
of
metallic
canister,
round,
flat
discs
shaped
objects
Getting
a
strong
camera
input
for
some
reason.
Cameras
have
to
do
with
one
of
these
rooms.
#66:
Okay.
Let's
move
to
another
room
now.
Move
on
through
the
rooms.
Give
me
a
brief
description
everything
that
goes
on.
#01:
Another
room
has
got
ah. ..a
lot
of
white
in
it
extraordinarily
white
room
...I
see
squares
or
cards
or
something
mounted
on
the
wall
and
there's
ah...
a
lot
of
shelving
mounted
on
the
wall.
There's
many
things
stacked
on
the
shelves
made
from
paper,....
sealed
in
plastic.
There's
a
blue
square
machine
here,
it
rotates,
a
rotating
movement
from
it
urn. ..there's
a
funny
kind
of
table
in here
too,
I'm
not,
it's
either
a
table
or
a
desk
but
it's
shaped
very
strangely,
a
lot
of
angles
to
it,
a
typewriter
on
it.
Two
other
small
boxes,
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box
like
objects
Now
I
see
a
formal
office,
not
real
plush
or
anything
just
very
formal,
desk,
chairs,
easy
chairs,
light
green
walls,
a
pale
green,
pictures
on
bookcases.
Having
trouble
finding
a
window
in
this
office,
ah,
suspect
it's
an
office
without
windows
Keep
getting
an
overriding
impression
of
chemicals
and
cameras
for
some
reason.
Okay.
Now,
kind
of
explain
to
me,
when
you
first
started
talking,
you
were
talking
about
a
formal
meeting
room
and
then
you
had
a
hallway
and
some
rooms
off,
can
you
kind
of
summarize
where
we
are
here?
Yeah.
We're
in
the
upper,
upper
floor
corner
of
the
building
.
And
where
is
this
formal meeting
room?
That's
ah. .from
where
we're
at,
you
go
down
hallway,
hit
stair,
make
a
slight
right
turn,
open
the
door,
down
a
staircase,
open
door
and
a
left
turn,
doorway
formal
meeting
hall.
It's
like
a
very
formal
room
with
big
table.
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#66:
You
said
a
formal meeting
hall.
#01:
It's
like
very
large
place
with
a
large,
long
table
with
chairs
all
around
it.
#66:
Okay.
Go
in
there.
#01:
Mmmm....very
ornate,
not
overly
so,
just
ornate.
#66:
Is
it
occupied
at
the
present
time?
#01:
No,
I
sensed
it
was
empty
when
I
came
in.
#66:
Okay.
Is
there
anybody
around
this
particular
room,
this
formal meeting
room?
#01:
I
hear
a
lot
of
like
cross
information,
I'm
getting
ah
doing
like
multi
national
type
people.
They
come
and
go,
I
keep
seeing
#66:
Okay.
I'm
interested
in
a
time
lock,
right
now.
#01:
In
a
minute.
#66:
Go ahead
and
finish
your
statement.
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I
#01:
That's
what
I'm
having
trouble
with,
I
keep
getting
groups
coming
and
going
and
I'm
not--
#66:
Yeah,
a
time
problem,
okay.
Right
now,
the
present
time,
am
I
correct
in
assuming
that
there's
nothing
going
on
in
this meeting
room
here?
#01:
This
exact
play
in
time,
nothing.
#66:
Okay.
Let's
move
back,
scan
the
previous
week
too,
an
important
time
when
there
is
something
going
on
in
there.
The
preceding
week
from right
now.
#01:
Have
a
ah
a
group
consisting
of
four
parts.
...I
have
one
very...
powerful
individual
heading
the
meeting...
and
then
I
have
three....
other
people
that
are
just
participants.
Each
has
a
group
of
people
with
them.
Apparently
they
are
more
than
one
nationality.
#66:
What's
the
raw
data
that
makes
you
say
that?
#01:
I
just
get
a
feel
of
the
nationalistic
differences.
It's
like
ah...
a
picture
of
various
border
lines
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intersecting.
.
.
I
got
something
right
on
the
edge
of
my
mind,
let
me
work
on
it
for
a
minute.
#66:
I'll
wait.
#01:
They're
discussing
the
implementation
of
some
plan,
this
informally
agreed
to
plan.
Has
to
do
with,
has
to
do
with
ah
has
to
do
with
bringing
another
country
into
this
super
unit.
There
seems
to
be
a.... ah.,
difficulty
of
some
kind
with
a
transference
of
money
or
how
it
would
be
financed
Impression
that
ah....
one
of
the
key
players
in
this
meeting
is
ah.,
not
known
to
be
there
and
not
supposed
to
be
there
or
something.
...At
whenever
I
focus
on
this
individual
I
keep
flashing
back
to
the
smaller
area
upstairs
.
#66:
Okay,
let's
work
with
describing
the
smaller
area
upstairs
.
.
#01:
This,
I
get
a
picture
now
of
a
like
a
smaller
area
in
the
area
upstairs
it's
ah... been
modified
to
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support
someone
living
wise,
ah.. bed
and
small
refrigerator,
kitchenette
type
area.
It's
also
a
work
area,
like
a
planning
area.
#66:
Okay,
what
type
of
planning
is
done
here?
#01:
I
ah
.
.
. f irst
.
. I
think
this
is
overlay,
but
my
first
inclination
is
terrorism,
but
that's
overlay,
it's
more
precise,
it's
ah. ..it
has
to
do
with
commitment
of
funds
and
movement
of
money
and
more
general
strategy
than
specific
acts.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
It's
a
policy
base,
that's
what
it
is,
place
of
basic
policy
decision.
#66:
Okay.
It
is
a
place
of
basic
policy
decision.
#01:
Correct.
#66:
All
right.
If
I
understand
the
graphics
here,
we've
moved
from
the
corner
upper
floor
area
and
then
we
moved
towards
the
center
of
the
building
and
we
come
to
a
formal,
or
a
large
conference
type
area.
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# 01
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# 66
:
# 01
:
Correct,
very
large
table
and
chairs.
Okay.
Moving
beyond
that
area
to
the
upper
floor
beyond
that,
describe.
I
don't
understand.
#66:
Okay,
it
would
appear
from
the
photograph
I've
shown
you
that
in
the
center
of
the
building
might
be
where
this
large
conference
table
is.
And
we've
described
kind
of
one
wing,
the
forward
side,
do
you
perceive
anything
on
the
other
side
of
the
conference
room area?
#01:
Oh,
just
a
minute
Ah... same
mix
as
I
get
on
the
other
side,
it's
like
a
....
well
equipped
work
area
with
an
efficiency
type
apartments
attached.
Seems
to
be
like
a
work,
rest
area
for
some
reason.
Keep
getting
it
over...
(mumble)
picking
at
the
back
of
my
mind,
it's
like
ah.,
there's
far
more
to
this
building,
there's
ah..
a
need
or
a
reason
or
existence
of
photo
support
facility,
many
printing
type
equipment.
Ah...
see
specialized
arms
room,
see
library
or
file
room
with
files,
very
much
like
a
very
specialized
operations
support
place.
or*
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#66:
This
is
the
building
in general?
#01:
Yes.
But
predominantly
functioning
as
a
place
of
policy
decision
making,
planning,
multi
national.
People
who
aren't
suppose
to
be
seen.
Predominant
focus,
financial,
money,
transference
of
funds
and
all
those things
that
funds
support.
#66:
Okay.
Ask
yourself
the
question,
ask
of
yourself
the
question,
what
does
this
money
buy?
#01:
Buys
ah.. people,
political
people,
but
not
in
a
sense
that
they
are
involved,
directly
involved
takes
bit
of
sense
that
they're motivations
are
political
Mmmm
,
it's
hard
to. ..I'm
trying
to
decipher
this
and
I'm
keep
getting
a
raw
impression
of
ah. .we
want
this
done,
here's
some
money
and
they
do
what
we
want
because
we
get
,
they
allow
us
(mumble)
as
well
and
it's
all
politically
motivated
There's
a
feedback
as
well,
I'm
trying
to
decipher
that.
#66:
I
will
wait.
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#01:
Has
to
do
with
organization,
there's
ah... it
ah... in
the
buying
of
the
people,
solidifies
an
organization
or
a
cohesed
develop
a
cohesiveness
or
it,
it
it's
like
the
building
in
the
network
from
existing
pieces.
Brings
together
different
diverse,
political
enemies,
but
establishes
a
power
base
of
control,
in
that
respect
I
just
see
money
going
out
and
information
and
people
coming
in,
I
don't,
it's
very
difficult
to
translate
it.
#66:
Okay.
I
can
understand
that
we're
not
down
at
the
working
level
where
we
have
a
lot
of
raw
data
to
deal
with
in
this
particular
situation.
Try
asking
yourself,
this
network
that
is
formed
by
the
issuance
of
money
and
getting
people
to
come
on
board
and
so
forth
and
so
on,
what
is
the
overall
goal
of
this?
#01:
Made
a
lot
of
levels
of
goals,
a
major
goal
being,
upper
level
goal
being,
destabilization
of
third
world
type
countries
which
would
cause
a
dependency
to
come
about.
Lower
level
goal
being
minerals,
gas,
oil
and
minerals,
minerals
predominantly.
# 66 :
So
you
say
they're
focus
here
seems
to
be
economic?
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#01:
Absolutely.
Economic
interdependencies,
(mumble)
destabilization.
Doesn't
seem
to
make
any
sense.
One
goal
is
to
destabilize
so
that
they
have
the
dependency
established
economically,
but
I
don't
see
a
intent
to
carry
out
supporting
that
dependency.
So
I
don't
understand
that.
#66:
Okay
.
The
last
couple
of
minutes
,
I
want
you
to
scan
the
area
again
from
the
small
rooms
and
the
large
conference
room
or
meeting
room
so
that
you
may
sketch
it
for
me.
#01:
Okay.
#66:
Okay.
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#01:
Okay.
There’s
a
top
view
of
the
building.
It’s
divided
into
four
areas.
The
view
side
of
the
building
which
is
that
depicted
in
the
picture
and
in
()
is
essentially
constructed
of
three
separate
areas,
one
is
an
area
of
mixed
living,
technical
support
functions
type
place.
It’s
like
permanent
people
that
are
there
and
they’re
working
with
all
these
different
little
technical
things
that
go
on,
you
know,
with
the
photography
and
the
printing
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff.
And
then
in
the
middle
is
a
large
room
which
is
a
very
ornate
conference
meeting
area.
It’s
like
a
very
large
table
with
chairs
and
whatnot
all
around
it,
but
it’s
very
ornate
for
some
reason,
and
you
know,
decorative
type
room.
That’s
where
people
meet
that
have
only
to
do
with
function
of
top
two
floors.
The
next
area
over
is
predominantly
a
living
or
efficiency
type
area
with
different
apartments
and
whatnot.
And
that’s
for
people
from
out
of
town,
multi
national
people
are
not
known
to
be
there,
people
that
are
participating
in
certain
arenas
or
areas
of
conference.
The
forward
side
of
the
building
opposite
the
view
side,
that
I
just
described,
is
a
general
area,
office
support
type
place
and
also
I
got
a
gut
feeling
that
there
are
some
more
of
these
same
living
type
efficiency
areas
there,
but
not
at
many
as
on
both
wings.
The
top
view
is
an
example
of
the
top
two
floors.
Then
there
is
a
side
view
that
shows
the
top
two
floors
with
the
large
room,
larger
room
and
I've
broken
down,
under
that
there's
three
additional
floors
that
are
general
office
areas.
And
I
have
feel,
just
gut
feel,
that
the
top
floors
are
clandestine
function
and
the
bottom
three
are
some
form
of
cover
organization
or
some
form
cover
function
that,
you
know,
is
going
on
all
the
time.
That's
essentially
it.
#66:
Okay.
When
I
asked
you
about
kind
of
what
goes
on
in
general
here,
you
said
they
talked
about,
they
pay
money
to
other
people
and
places
in
order
to
gain
their
support
in
some
way?
#01:
No,
it's
almost
like
they
pay
other
people,
they
pay
other
people
that
are
driven
politically,
motivated
politically
some
reason
or
another.
They
don't
really
care
about
what
their
politics
are,
what
these
other
people's
politics
are.
Their
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