Approved For Release 2 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 Approved For Release 2000/08/0 k-RDP96-00788R000200140002-4 impression of clover leaf. That's what it was. Then it was at that point, after I got these impressions of the lines, what-have-you, a single, singular impression ...had the impression of a wedge which looked like a roof. Something like this. The thing that struck me here was the building was not that high but was very, very thick and what I saw was something like slits in here...very heavy cement walls both front and on the gid.....on the back and from that you directed me to one of these things. I said explore the bunker type things. Yeah...circular bunker type things....and what I saw in there, and before I draw it, let me describe it. It was..uh..these were about 2 or 3 feet above ground, but they were very, very deep below ground. Very, very clean. Very modern and I got...this is where 1 got the impression...this electronic gear. Were you surprised to find that when you went inside? Yeah. Very, very. What was more surprising yet, is that this thing, I was in only in this one...this is the only one I was in...that this led to..uh..an underground, huge tunnel...if you've seen any of the old World War II submarine pens built by the Germans that's exactly the impression I got...it was very, very huge...except, and very, very thick...except ceiling was domed as opposed to be completely rectangular. So this is.....I quess I should put this.....somebody doesn't know. And this was somewhat rectangular. Ok. This is an overview, or sideview. I was right in there. I wanted to describe the layout. What I thought.....and that had...this came on later on but, I got another impression of another circle here and spokes leading to and fro ok. Then I saw that chrome thing. The thing you called nose cones. Nose cones. Was attached to it. (Mumbling) I didn't dare call it a missile. Impression that I got...and I got the impression that initially they were all lined up parallel but they weren't. They were on these tracks with nose going this way. This was a second yHa-RDP96-00788R000200140002-4
#28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 Approved For Release 2000/8102 =I -RDP96-00788R000200140002-4 impression. The first impression was, maybe 12 or 16 lined up like this. Ok. If I understand you right, at one time you perceived 12 to 16 «se... Yeah.....this was the first perception...... weeee0h, kind of stacked orderly...... wees eStacked orderly in a line..... oke«eeeand then... weeeeethen I got the impression here that all of these led to..uh..to this spoked thing. Ok. I wanted to say track, but I'm not sure. Just a way of conveying these things to that center portion. Ok. And the only thing I saw in there was the. .uh.. sort of a porch jutting or jetting gallory, ok. Around this thing, here..-...and there were few people here.. and some offices here....and what they seemed to be doing was supervise this entire area below. There were people and maybe offices to this on the side that could look down this whole array. Yes. That whole array was in the center and there was a gallery type jetting from this cement... Must have been rather big. Oh. It was huge, huge. Very poor at dimensions. But, you've seen s sub and you've got the impression of hugeness and I couldn't help compare it because that, that's what it was and..uh..-but with this gallery veeeeel'm not too sure this went all the way around... but I saw 'em here ....-ok..-..and all of this seems to be interconnected. Although this building was in the..uh..in the second shot for some Teason seemed to be in the..uh..in the center of this first drawing. Ok. Someplace around here. Something like that. Building in number 2 is maybe what you want to say. Yeah. Let's call it number 2. All right. Then you kept asking me to look around, look around.....-let's gay that this entire complex was something like this. 4sRDP96-00788R000200140002-4
Approved For Release #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 ME AiaGIA-RDP96-00788R000200140002-4 Too bad I'm such a poor drawer. Something like that. Ok, and from the higher perspective this seemed to be a heavy tree line here, ok. And, somewhere here, I don't know how far, there was a railroad track. Kind'a went this way...shot off. But, I got the weird impression that ..uh..it shouldn't have come close to this area but it was for some reason. I don't know. Maybe speaking 2 miles, 3 clicks, 4 clicks. I don't know. I don't know. But my attention just kept going to that railroad track. Ok. Why don't you draw me an arrow and show me the direction where you said you saw water. Oh, yeah. No problem. But that was a real high shot. You mean from a real high altitude? Yeah. 1 couldn't see anything and I was trying to find something I said I just go higher and higher and higher until it just looked like a map, ok. Uh..all right, let's just finish it off. Ok. I.can't tell you how high it was. You know. What scale it would be but I'll try to look at it like it was a map. I saw a piece of land jetting out this way. Something like this and coming down something like this. (Mumbling) like this and with islands ...something here....ok.+...now there was. »Uhe. And where was this complex located? I'm getting to that....-yeah, I'm coming to that. Ok. This was island type.....islands.....small dam islands....something like this...--and then there was q..uh. hilly, if there were mountainous area ...very low mountains...ok....and this was heavily forested here... ok..ok..eand then beyond that, this, this kind of sloped and plained off and the..uh..the forest was not as heavy. Ok. Further inland it was not as heavy? Yes. Light forested area (mumbling) and this dumb thing was right here, ok...eeand the railroad track ....someplace around here (mumbling) pretty isolated all around here. Few buildings here and there...+- Ok. Area in question is here then. Ok. Now, I'd like you to do something for me. Froma perspective that you didn't see that I'd like to see if you can't put the problem together in your mind and draw special picture for me. If I could have a cutaway of this : uni Ve TR-RDP96-00788R000200140002-4
#32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 Approved For Release 2009 fR DP96-00788R000200140002-4 area so that you were down and could see the under- ground part, like an ant hill farm or a mold's house, can you show me how the situation leads from the bunker down into this other complex...tunnel things... as though it were a cutaway from the earth and you could see inside of the earth. I can try and these are pure impressions, because I'm not going to draw you a real picture because I didn't see the real thing. Yes. I understand you didn't see it from this perspective but I'd like you to try to put the pieces together. What I saw was the circular bunker ok, that went down quite deep.. Draw me a ground line.....Okeeee. This is ground.....ground level...ok...then sort of a spiral staircase to a small tunnel, all right... (garbled) That was my question. Is it man size or vehicle size? Vehicle size but not a big vehicle size. Small vehicle size. Accommodate transportation for people. ... better describe that....ok...-which lead (mumb Ling) to this huge bunker, ok...and this would be the top of the bunker. « All right. This, this very hard for me to describe. I don't know the extent because I was concentrating on this thing ..-.one thing at a time.... what you had there was the gallery...+.. Ok. We've switched now and gone sideways for a while. Yeah, yeah. Can't do that then. Let me, let me stop there. (Mumbling) gallery...and then I'll just stop there. Ok. Where is the area with the electronic gear in it? In here.It's in, it's in this one here, ok. In the X. Yeah. In the X in drawing 1, ok. -RDP96-00788R000200140002-4
Approved For Release 200 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 | #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 Approved For Release 2000/08/07, Aj-RDP96-00788R000200140002-4 Ck. Ok. Let me ask a couple questions here, now. Perhaps it will be a little difficult but let's see what your impressions are here. From the domed area you have a stairway leading down LOsveccoe I'm not sure it's a stairway, I'm just..... Ok. I just know it went down. I got the impression of something circular going down. Doesn't have to be stairs. All right. Or people versus machinery...-+- No, no people....people, strictly people..... Ok. And then it leads to a tunnel which may be vehicular. Yes. But, not huge. Not enough to accommodate...... The tunnel just below there is not big enough to accommodate the missile thing but maybe vehicles of some kind. Yeah. Ok. Now tell me about the passageway which leads into the submarine pen area that you described. I almost bypassed it. I did not go to it. This is not a real cutaway in the sense that you'd have to descend here. If this were a plane it probably circulated = around and came into this area. That's the best I can do. I can't explain how you get down. Ok. You're saying that the submarine pen area, or this big cavern area underneath is definitely lower but you don't know how you transended from the vehicular tunnel to this area. No. No. Because I just saw it and I went...1 got the impressions from it. Ok. That's what I wanted to know. 9 afg|A-RDP96-00788R000200140002-4
(! ‘a Approved For Release 2000% #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 #32 #28 ere P96-00788R000200140002-4 To find, to find out whether this is just sloping or whether it's.....I don't think it's precipitous, but, how it curves around into it, I don't know. I don't know. But this is definitely gower than this and this extends far down. Ok. And, then you would take, whatever it is, a small vehicle or whatever, to get to it. I got the impression that you don't slope down on it. You just go right to it from the bottom of this huge thing here. Ok. Now I'd like to ask you some questions about the session, itself. How did you feel about the viewing? I was very cautious. I didn't particularly want to go into this kind of detail because I was afraid I'd stop building my own little area. Ok. Do you feel that you've built your own little area? No. I took it one at a time. Some of the things...I[ just gave you the impressions.....the lines....the lines worked up to that building number 2. Then the circles .eeeand I went into the circle.....did that and I went from one thing to another. Again, I want to ask you...you know...we are trying to find the difference of what you might have expected to find inside this circular bunker area and what you did find , and you say you were surprised at what you did find in there. Yes. Yes. Ok. Is there anything you want to add? No. Ok. That'll do it. 10 Approved For Release 20QQ/08/07..:.£.lIA-RDP96-00788R000200140002-4