Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000300290001-9 being bombarded with Part C. Part C is that big square box. And it’s coming in here and it's impacting with A. And A is imploding versus exploding and the result is, uh, I’ve got to do this right, an expulsion of D on a element of D. And D is going up and hitting those, remember those polished surfaces? M:  Unm, yeah, sure. Vv: D is bouncing back into, D is bouncing back into B again. Now, what’s happening is it’s like feeding on itself and it’s, it’s creating this huge plasmic-type effect. So we'll Say turning to plasma. And then that, in turn, is filling this chamber with this plasma and it’s coming out here and it’s hitting these like the ends of that real thin wire and it's having an electrical or physical interaction out here. I mean this plasma is, is really having an effect with, with this thing whatever that is. And that’s "creating a really specific output right here. Smaller than laser-like, I, I, you know, that, like a laser beam but not. It’s even more refined than a laser beam. And this, this output E, out here, this output E is what's going out hitting those targets. And focusing this E is really difficult. I mean there’s a lot of fibers and it’s coming out but it tends to spread and, uh, depending upon what the spread is, is how strong it is. So there’s this, this constant trying to focus, you know, bend, manipulate. And, and, I’m not so sure that these, these mirrors, I'll label them mirrors, call them metal mirrors, uh, they may not be manipulative. I, I see them moving. M: So they may be manipulative. V: They may be manipulative. In other words, they can focus or refocus or defocus or whatever this D is, is bouncing around. M: So you wanta they may be instead of may not be. V: Yeah, I’m sorry. And what's really hard with this whole thing is it’s all, you know, high, high speed computer—controlled stuff all done with predesigned programs that are, I mean, they’re operating at lightening speeds. And al] this dynamic is taking Place in, you know, 200 millionths of a second and this is trying to capture it and focus it and, and build on it and pulse it out through this little thing at-E and the E is a mass of these things that comes in too wide and it’s gotta be focused back down. M: Um, hum. V: And s0, so this entire, this entire goes on for like three one hundredths of a second, Discharges. And then the other problem is this thing gets Super hot. They, what, we'll call it the the, generator, this, uh, oh, you know what I did I? We'll, this, this generator, whatever it is, is further complicated in that, uh, it gets really hot, so there’s a cooling problem. Uh, there's focus problems as a, you know, as a, ancillary to the, the heat build up. There's a collection problems. We'll call that maintaining the plasma. And then, and then, also the thing that, that actually that B-17 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000300290001-9
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000300290001-9 comes in here from C, that I labeled C, that C has also got a problem in that’s pulse. So it has to be, uh, timed with, uh, discharge pulses. And, let's see, uh, I’m still trying to get a feel for what kind of output this is in terms of energy. M: Um, hum. V: And it’s real difficult cause I don't, I don’t know any of the terminology. M: Um, hum. V: I do know that, ah, I do know that, I'll go over here and make notes on the sensor thing. Most sensors don’t last very long. I think that this inevitably eats the sensors, you know I mean, just does them in. Secondly, uh, it’s a singular test. There are enormous amounts of data are collected for, uh, future analysis. Uh, sensors are ground buried. Uh. I'm gonna put capital letters on this thing, I mean big letters that, uh, constant mirror tuning going on top and bottom, um, but instant to instant, whatever that means. I don’t know what that means, that’s important. M: OK. V: Keep wanting to separate top and bottom halves. I don’t, I don’t what else to add to this thing. M: Well, we've focused a lot on, on the detail of the apparatus | think, and some on, on the buildings and I'm wondering maybe if might be important to take an even more general view. Do you have any idea, or do you get any impressions of where this might be going on? Is it going on in the United States, is it going on in another country, or is it going on in space, or what’s, do you have any, any feelings about that. Vv: Yeah, I think it’s, uh, uh, it’s an earth bound experiment. It’s, uh, of some distance between parts, uh, what this predominantly, what they’re predominantly doing here, I think, I think their concept is developed, let's say concept is developed, and this is a testing to fine tune the system. In other words, what they’re doing is debugging it. M: Um, hum. V: That’s what they’re essentially doing. They’ve proven the concept can work, they’ve shown that it can do exactly what it’s meant to do... M: Um, hum. B-18 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000300290001-9
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000300290001-9 V: ...that it’s controllable... M: Um, hum. Vv: -.-and, what this is, is they’re, they’re now juggling the programming and playing with the, the possible parts or pieces in an attempt to fine tune it. To get the best balance or equilibrium between output versus focus versus energy versus this versus that, and they're creating greater and greater distances. M: Um, hum. Vv: In other words, they're actually pulling further and further away from the target. M: Um, hum. V: They're, I keep getting this ro, almost automatic inner-rotational thing that’s happening between parts of this thing. Where one part bolts on the other and they’re in constant communication and, and, one is saying more A, more C, more M: Um, hum. Vv: Reduce D, and, and the other one is Saying you got that, what's happening now, that sort of thing, and the entire time this is happening, there is also a target, a Specific target, a general specific target, a general specific target, that’s smart. There’s an actual target that’s being subjected to it at the same time simultaneously, from which data is also being collected so that when they're, they don’t even know, in other words, it’s, uh, it’s like you need, you need three separate components of information. You need information based on what the different parts are doing Simultaneously. Based on what they’re doing and their effect on the target, in the sensors around the target, the original controlling-type device the modifies what’s happening. So, it’s like it needs information from three locations in order to decide what to do next. In order to optimize what’s happening in three different locations. It’s uh, it’s not like your typical gun, you know, where you pull a trigger and you get one effect. It’s more like you’re dealing with three different locations and three different effect simultaneously and trying to bring them all into balance. M: Well, that leads me to another question about the actual function of this and I can see a couple of different things and I was wondering whether you had any more specific information about the function, I mean it could be a weapon system, it could be a propulsion system that actually propels a large mass of something some place, or it could be a kind of energy sending system. Or, it might one of a bunch of a whole bunch of other things that are.... B19 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000300290001-9
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000300290001-9 V: my feeling is, my feeling is, that it’s using, it’s using one form of energy we'll call M: Um, hum. V: . tO generate B... M: Um, hum. V: ..-a form of energy. M: Um, hum. Vv: B form of energy is then interacting with the target. M: OK. Vv: And it’s doing damage molecularly to that target. M: OK. Vv: And the problem is that the B format is terribly difficult to control. M: OK. V: A is barely controllable. And there's so many aspects to A that they’re learning to control A and they are observing for the first time the real effects on B. In other words, the wave front is producing for the first time ever, they are now seeing what the effects of that are. M: Um, hum. vV: So they are now trying to optimize the, the impact power of that wavefront so they need to play with A and B simultaneously to tune them one to the other. M: Um, hum. V: The effect the target is absolute devastating. I mean, it turns metal to vapor. You know, it just alters it molecularly to beyond recognition. B=20 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000300290001-9