Approved For Release reas oh i hal 4 “9 a eadaeemaaeaaeei , eh pd | Cee 5s NOT RELEASABLE 10 FOREIGN NATIONALS 1 ORCON INSCOM GRILL FLAME PROGRAM SESSION REPORT CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH © 0516302 JUL 78 REVIEW ON: MAY 2000. Approved For Release a i Fe FPP es-0078eR000200390001-8
Approved For Release 2000/d6rof-= Eipfrifred-o0788R000200390001-8 +25 +27 #ils #663 #11: #66: #11: 66: #1: Lot of pallots, lot of stuff, stacked up and piled all over - that kind of area. -I had a picture. . off a cradle. I'm not sure the picutre's important, but I think cradle is. Then. . . Il seemed ta move beyond this area - perhaps there's a... « » a lip or kind of L shape to this building because. . . . it appeared to move into a big open area and in the Northeast corner was a large building inside this large, large building. Like an office or a quality control center. PAUSE Describe the function of this particular area of the building. PAUSE I get the feeling that this is... where equipment is finalized, is completed, .. . Whatever was being put. together is finished at this point. All right. Listen very carefully now. Move to the area where you were perceiving your first entry into this building, an area where you described some activity. Move once again to that area and describe the activity to me. PAUSE Its like an assembly line. There is a... + e+ «ss a conveyor or something that moves. ... and... - appears to be people. I don't see people but I get this assembly line atmosphere. Something moving down tis conveyor assembly line that is slowly being put together at each station. And on both sides of me. . . is a multitude of machinery. People operating this machinery and stuff and final finishing and assembling of parts that are to go into making up this . . . product, whatever it is. Move on down the process that you perceive and describe the finished product to me. PAUSE T have . 6 «. PAUSE I feel its a vehicle. I don't .. 1 feel more for. . a vehicle with very large tires. I don't feel for a tracked vehicle. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : C1A-ROB FEO FRPHOP0390001-8
_Approved For Release soooabr (Gifefrgs-00788R000200390001-8 #66: Visualize this vehicle very clearly so that. you may draw it for me later. #11: It looks very much like a BTR-60. #66: At this time I have no further questions about the target area. If there's anything you'd like to add, please do so now. PAUSE #11: No, there's nothing I can add at this point. During the debrief it would be a lot easier. #662 All right at this time, return your perceptions to the room where I'm located. Move your arms, move your legs and prepare to draw those perceptions you've had. PAUSE #11: Now once I acquired the motor pool area . . and my first goal was to move into the direction towards Grid Square E7 and I found myself at ground level next to this fence. I couldn't see over it and I was going down this wall. I said, that, you know. . . that: wasn't doing me any good. So, I went back to the motor pool and TI believe that's when the noise started interrupting me and I would move a little bit and be drawn back ..... as. . when the. . as soon as I got away from it, and something bothered me, it was like an automatic keying device ~ I went back to my point of origin. I finally got past in that direction in the motor pool there seemed to be another area over here ~- well, maybe I'11 put that down on paper - Number 1. I had this feeling here. . I had a feeling there was an opening here and then there was a... another fence with a gate and here was the motor pool and then we had these buildings over here. There seemed to be some type of dividing line over here and there was an area where the X. is where I pictured this artillery piece. Or what I. . It was avery clear picture, it may have been overlay or whatever, maybe it was there. But in this area where the X is and it was a 122 millometer D30 Soviet type. And then I:tried to move over and keep moving down and I couldn't. And there is one point where it finally got rather quiet and all of a sudden I seemed to be locked into a position where I was looking down on a building. And this is in Drawing 2. This building... . and its probably not much to scale. PAUSE 4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : AD eRo||200390001-8
. Approved For Release 2000/0847 FORE PT reoonoosso00n® Ned #11: The X marks the hatching... There may have been an appendage to this building. And I doen't know why, I just drew it that way. I'm not sure that's the way I saw it. There was something in the center. It had windows. PAUSE It could have had appendages overhere also. Could have been in here. But 1-I'm positive of, . . is the one with the X on it, was definitely appendage there, whether it was an L shape - an I shape or somewhere inbetween. In Drawing 3, . - + « » vie is more close to my original, perspective with of course with all the possible appendages etc. An X marks the spot where 'I just went, I just dove right into it. Now, that's Drawing 3. I think the reason I drew Drawing 2 the way I did as a clear story type building with the appendage on top is because of once. I got inside, I felt that or saw that. There appeared to be a. . when I was standing there there appeared to be. a roof overtop of me and there was a space up there with windows and then it went down alongside again and on each side, each side is where all the machines were located and they were making things and final assembling things and down the middle of this thing is where the assembly line ran. #31: In your tape, you did use the term clear story. #1ls Yes. That's the. outside-of the building. #31: Okay and the impression of: the clear story structure came. . originated from the light coming in... #11: Once I got inside. Drawing #3 is basically what I saw from up above and I just zoomed right in on it. And once I got inside, I came up with Drawing #2. #31: Okay. #11: That: type of building. #31: Okay. #11: So there's two different impressions. An outside look and a look from inside. PAUSE af0p FaeRO0p200390001-8
_Approved For Release 2000/08/07 PSR aLEARO00200390001-2 #11: #66: #11: #31: #1ls #31: #11: #31: #1ls #31: Approved For Release 2006 oe Once. I got inside, Whew! This is going to be tough. PAUSE What you might want to do is put the tape on hold now until I get this thing drawn now and then explain it. We have plenty of tape. Go ahead and continue to draw. Okay, cause this is. . . I'm sitting here trying to picture and draw at the same time and its pretty hard. Difficult for me to... Okay, this will be just transcribed as seratch, scrath scratch, scratch. I'11 just run my mouth off while I'm doing it. Okay, these. angle lines going up to the center line are kind of like rafters. Okay, that gives the angle of the roof. These . . . then I saw the windows here. Would it do me any good, help if I used different colors? Whatever you feel best with it, it would help. Well, the light is the blue coming in from the windows up here. They seem specifically to be lighting up this center. area. Okay, and the . . . this of course was dark and shaded. Now, out front here seemed to be some type of, Oh, for lack of anything better to call it - a conveyor or something. Something sat on it and was moved very slowly down through here and this big blob . . .or whatever, this was there on the conveyor line. What you're saying then is the dark which looks like the back end of the hall is in actuality something blocking your view that... Yes. Well, that's something that was on the conveyor line and moving. At that time, I didn't know what it was - couldn't make out what it was and really I tried to at that time. It wag difficult but there were activity and I perceived that there were stations along here. that people, you know, are responsible for. And... are you getting a feel for it? Yes Yes. 8R000200390001-8
- Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : E-CRE Feencoozocasooe #11: #31: #11: #31: #11: #31: And there was . . . there seemed to be airhoses and stuff hanging down here, you know, a conglomerate of stuff. Okay. Now this. ... there's a little aisle on other side and... . up to each side there wasn't + « « » e« there appeared to be very heavy supports. PAUSE Qkay. Back behind here it was dark but this is where - and I'll see if I can color this in an even tone. It was dark and.it wasn't dark. It was darker than the rest » . Of this particular central area. But there was activity going on behind there in the form of machinery and people operating machines it appeared. PAUSE I wish I could just take a photograph from my head because it would have been much easier. Behind there as the roof went down there was another «row of windows but they were way off. There were lights and stuff over these machines but it was just dark in this area. And there was a lot of machining activity. Like (not audible). getting things ready for assembly line. It was just, you know, lots of equipment. I don't know. Parts equipment. Activity. Stuff like that. Okay, that's oe ¢ e oe Okay, that's in the closer in from the outer portion closer in alongside the conveyor area is where those things are. Yes. Well, there's stuff all over the place. Okay. It was a very confusing situation. Very difficult. . It would be very difficult to describe in detail. Although it would be . . it would be very time consuming to describe in detail but not all that difficult. Okay, this point here is where I entered, right in the center. You had a feeling somewhere through the session here, let me see, .... . Okay. . . . Associated with some type of vehicle you were asked to describe the relative position, you said the exact center. Okay. All right so that's our first cut at that so let me go on down later in-the session when you were directed back to that beginning point. cr Ech Approved For Release 2000/08107 &-Cw. -00788R000200390001-8