Approved For Release 2000/08/07 3 #66: #7: #66: +ll #7: #66: #66: #7 #66; #7: #66: #7: #66: Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RiB96- 0788 HEB 788R000200210001-7 All right. Holding your altitude... Its... Its. . This is an interpretation. I know I shouldn't but, it seems like this is a power plant. + « « With the steam lines and... conveyors. Okay, from this area now, holding ; your altitude, move East. Holding your altitude, move East, 1/2 mile and describe that area to me. PAUSE Let's see. . . it looks... it looks . . . It looks like a ore pile. Looks like ore pile. That's fine. Explain. PAUSE Big pile of stuff that's more grey than black. Looks like coal pile but it is not coal. Its not coal, its + « « » pile of . .. . could be iron ore. . . could be limestone. I don't know. All right. Its... . PAUSE Trying to figure out. . . The ore pile is one the what would be the . . . shady side of this big building. I see a. . a building over there that's . . looks like its got a. . abandon tractor treads. Big metal belts. There's some of them coiled up next to a building and... . some of them just double back once. PAUSE But on the flat side I think its . . it looks like tractors. All right. Very good. Maintaining your altitude move one more 1/2 mile East. East. You will now be one mile from your original point. East. RO000200210001-7
Approved For Release 2000/0® +14 +19 #663 #7: #66: #7: #66: #73 #56-00788R000200210001-7 Describe this area to me. PAUSE Wait a minute. I'm all turned around, but... I think I'm looking East and down to my right .... are quite a few... metal stacks. Metal... like « « « Huh. PAUSE Looks a lot like a shady plant (not audible). With all the... PAUSE Stacks associated with . . painting. They exhaust the hydrocarbons high above the plant. PAUSE There are long buildings. | PAUSE I. .« 1 got a flash of . .. some kind of a...a coal or ore unloading somewhere in this vicinity. PAUSE All right. Maintaining your altitude. Maintaining your altitude once again, move East. Move East. One-half mile. PAUSE I e « e Describe this area to me. PAUSE Oh well. PAUSE It doesn't make sense. To the. . my left, I guess that would be North, . . I see a shape that reminds me of a suspension bridge shape. That's to my left. To my right. . . it looks like glowing again. Glowing. - PAUSE Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RI)P96-00788R000200210001-7
Approved For Release 2000/05/9) 7 cape .. +20 #7: #663 #73 #66: +24 #7: #66: #73 Approved For Release 26018877 PCIA-RDPSE- $50-00788R000200210001-7 I get a feeling, for some reason, close up there's a lot of pipes. . . layed out parallel like printed circuit boards. PAUSE Only 100 times bigger. PAUSE Ha ha ha PAUSE Ha! I sawa...Isawa... a face superimposed over these pipes. At first I thought it was George Washington. And then it looked like Stalin. He's dead. PAUSE Okay, maintaining your altitude, move again East. Move East even further, another half mile. You will now be two miles East, two miles East of your original point. Move East. Move East and describe this area to me. PAUSE Damn. I'm down on the ground. Just a minute. PAUSE Okay. I'm back at altitude. Position yourself two miles East of your original point. Two miles East of your original point. PAUSE What looks like a... I see. . I see a martialing yard from here, but... PAUSE Explain. A martialing yard. PAUSE Yeah, its . . train station. Making up trains here. " SBGEaG bar Position. 0788R000200210001-7 ¥ 3
Approved For Release 20001080 SBR HAYES FOFEER000200210001-7 #31: it7: #31: #73 #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #73 #31: #7: #31: #7: #313 #7: #31: #7: Okay. All right. Could be. . Okay. It could have been a tracked vehicle of any kind treads. But it looked... But associated with a vehicle, am I right? I didn't sec any vehicles, all I saw was this big metal building, grayish and I remember it... And I found myself asking myself, why is it on the shadow side. Because there was no shadows. You know. Um hm. There was no highlight sides, there were no shadows; but yet I felt that that was on the shadow side so IT felt okay it must be maybe on a North side or Northwest side of the building. Okay. That's fine. And did you want a picture of the treads? No. I'm just . . some of these things I'm saying just to bring your thought through the session, okay. Yeah. But that... They had flats on them, you could see them each place they bent you could see big broad flats. All right. As though they were plates linked, some- thing like that? Yes. Okay, so now we move to your next touchdown, your next movement of 4% mile. In this, I'd like a sketch. At this point you are about 20 minutes into the session and your verbal description is "the metal stacks like painting stacks to exhaust hydrocarbons high above (not audible)". Oh, that's like a sugar plant. Holabird. Yeah. I believe you did make that - okay. High above plant and long metal buildings. Yes. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200210001-7 i : | 4 wh
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : EER Moicocozoozt0001- #7: #31: #7: #31: #7 #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: Approved For Release 200 Back in this complex there's a lot of buildings all around this darn area. Back in here somewhere was . +. « « like a 20 inch iron pipe. A lot like this incinerator pipe down here. I guess that's an incinerator. Okay. PAUSE And there's a lot of stuff back in here. Just all over, geometric patterns in here. You may want to hold that there for a second, Sketch 3. Also, the reason, also at this touchdown you said you had a flash of coal or ore unloading in this vicinity. Oh, I had forgotten about that. Is that sketchable on through, or possible an arrow would suffice? It was off to the... off... 1 felt very confused at this point and I started to analyze and I started to figure out what was going on and I remembered I really wasn't supposed to. But I got a flash of the kind of thing I had seen along the tread shipment point. Like it was a river or a... harbor. I see big clam shells lifting coal off barges and 1 thought my God , you know, I'm in the middle of a land mass here you know, there's no ocean here. Then I realized I eas analyzing and I backed off of it. And the only pure image I had was the clam shell off-loading ore or coal from a linear object would could have been train cars, could have been barges, I didn't know. I didn't play with it anymore. Okay, that's fine. That's to the left? That's to the left on Number 3. Okay. All right. Third movement now coming up. At this touchdown you had, let me see, where are we. You had a feeling that to the left and then you said that must be to the North is shape reminded you of a suspension bridge shape. Oh yes. To the right is glowing again. Okay. And also at this touchdown point, you had a lot of pipes layed out parallel like printed circuit boards only hundreds OORT GigeROPS ORIQ? b L}AsRDP96-00788R000200210001-7 13 Pe} a © |
7s #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: Approved For Release 2000108 MAE ARESED57227000200210001-7 Okay. Yes I remember that. That was all in the same position, but . .. . The suspension bridge shape gave me all kinds of trouble because I had just shook the feeling about water. The previous touchdown. I thought Oh, here we go again. Bridge. Normally you cross water. And I looked and I. . on the moving imagery I just couldn't focus on any water. I tried to figure what the shape was and I wasn't sure it was a bridge but I thought If better report it and I still don't know what it was but it was... Oh, basically there was a... like big columns, or pillars like with a... . suspension shape inbetween and I... . wasn't comfortable with this. I saw vertical lines appear and I said Oh, no your making a bridge out of this. And about there, I shook it and got away from it. I don't know what the heck it was. Okay. I don't know whether vertical lines I invented because it reminded me of a bridge or I am sure of the inverted curve like that. Okay. Oh yes, there was glow off over in this direction. And, there's some geometric shapes over here. There was activity over here. Then, somewhere to the right and I don't know if they're connected or not, I saw a lot of .. parallel pipes and they were going, some were going in different directions under each other. . And, . . . I thought of . . I tought of New Jersey going up . . past those cracking plants sort of thing. I've seen that sort of thing before. But, I thought, Hey I know what this is, this is a eracking plant. But then I didn't feel comfortable in saying so. What do you mean by a cracking plant? Petroleum cracking. Where you make lighter oils, gasoline, kerosene from heavy crude. Okay. IT had seen. That was the kind of pipes. So I looked around for some of the things that I would recognize that went with cracking plants and the image was pulsing and moving, fading in and fading out, and I couldn't find the things that I was looking for to say, Hey, Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : eS \— ae aba Es.
Approved For Release 2000/08, #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: &00788R000200210001-7 this is it. This is a cracking plant. But I remember all the lines going in different directions - pipes with vertical tubes and things reminded me of cracking plants I've seen. I immediately thought of along the Jersey Turnpike there toward New York. Okay. That is on the right in Sketch 4. But the way patterns were laid out the overall feeling of this thing was I think I said, you just said I said it. Like a printed circuit board. When you're up high looking down at it it was very geometric, very linear. Okay. These things are separate you know I could not connect them together in a total scene. I'm sorry. No. That's okay. That's fine. When you're doing this type of work you know, you get various imagery from different directions and so. Okay, I guess we are now at the fourth - we move on into the fourth touchdown. This one, you had the feeling you were on the ground to start with and then you got yourself back up in the air or you got your focus up - moved up higher. A martialing yard, trains, associated at this point, or possibly not associated, but at the same period of reporting, a big brick stack was below you and a parallel long buildings to the south of the stack or what you perceived to be the south of the stack. By the way, I can draw a heck of a lot better than this but I don't know what's wrong with me today. PAUSE Stack below me. Martialing yard, stack, below me, I'm sorry. Yeah, the brick stack below and parallel long buildings. To what you perceived to be south of the stack. (Not audible) PAUSE 15 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200210001-7 hom SG
#7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: ’ #31: #7: #31: Approved For Release 2000/08/ oma ata ree 23r00020021 0001-7 Its a whole batch of these. They're just long fabrication buildings. . Metal. PAUSE That will be Sketch 5, is it. Yeah (not audible). PAUSE Five? Yeah, five for that. PAUSE Okay, now moving on to another jump. Another move to the East. Your impression at this touchdown was a little more sparse to the left. The only thing you had or I guess, things on posts, like a sub station, you said. . Yes. It reminded me of an electrical substation. Forward and below me somewhere. It kept coming and going. Also at this jump, you also had, or this touchdown, you also had associated with this point, what I interpreted, I think you said, garden spray column, more than one (not audible). I don't know what it was. I saw just against a gray background, white conical shapes that reminded me of the column spray out of a garden spray. You know that cone white sparkly spray. I saw, I think its three of them. Not in a row. They were horizontal. And, one in the foreground and one high and one kind of low behind it. I have no idea, I tried to shake it as just pure noise but it wouldn't go away. . . so I Figured I'd dump it. Um hm. You also had apartment shapes to (not audible) South. To the South, yes. Looked like moderate high rise. Cement maybe. Okay. Substation (mumbling). Do I understand on these columns you - they are horizontal or vertical? What columns? This garden feeling of spray of conical shapes. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200210001-7 16 ) H
Approved For Release 2000 rere fed Mhafas0726°2000200210001-7 #7: #31: #7: #31: #7 s #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: 7: The cone shapes were horizontal with the apex to the left and getting bigger to the right. - Okay. And they were just against a nothing background. Okay. And they appeared to sparkle or pulsate. They had slight movement to them. And looked for all the world like a garden spray to me. Okay. Moving to our next jump, when I look at it, this should be our last touchdown. PAUSE Oh yeah, a fenced in area. Large, large open area. Starting off, I'll give it to remind you now because its, you know, it was a long session. Reminds you of inflatable plastic enclosure to the right. Its smooth. Okay. There are all kinds of things here, small buildings, piles of debris, the fenced in area with a kind of something that I did not pick up, I don't know what the word was that you used. Big fenced in area with kind of to the left. I don't know I remember thinking it was a some kind of a. . some kind of test facility. Right, that's this session here. Or this section of it here. Would you... Concrete pads or hard pads or stands or aprons, or. . Right, going on through your notes or my notes,. complex overlapping cone shapes. That's when you felt some kind of a test. Parallel linear pattern coming in from a great distance. Big area spread out. Concrete apron thing. Okay. PAUSE I don't remember the cone tings. I remember the linear. . Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200210001-7 . 17 t ‘ i
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : or. a Re ~ #31: #7: #31: #7: Sd #31: #7: od kd FO 7 88R000200210001-7 Complex with overlapping cone shapes - well, maybe (Not audible-both talking at once) No. . » not remember.where it was. Okay, that's fine. The, if I'd be interested in the .. your feeling of the inflatable plastic enclosure. Okay. In association with the large fenced in area. Which you said was to the left, I think, as far as I recall. Okay. PAUSE I thought it looked like a wall with a... plastic inflatable roof on it. About the ratio of . . a little wider than a loaf of bread, you know, long, ratted on the ends, the top of it being less than a semi-sphere. Much shallower than that. And it looked very smooth . » « NO indications of metal sheeting as a roof. I just felt it was very smooth and which again is what made me say like plastic. And I started to say like the top of the Good Year blimp. Long and rounded like the top of that. Except, I didn't think it was silver. And I didn't say Good Year blimp because I was afraid it would conjure up silver. Okay. Okay. That was over to the right and. ... . PAUSE There was little roads all over this cotton picking place and I remember there's something about... Oh yes, there's something about parallel linear pattern. I took to mean, maybe railroad tracks curving off down here. Back over to the left is where I saw the shapes coming from a long, long distance, it appeared and getting rather large here in front of me. Like . . When I think of it, like I was looking at the end or railroad rails and I was very close to one end and the other end was just getting smaller and smaller way away from me like a wide angle lens. And, just like they went to infinity, I remember, PAUSE 18 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : Sr Ty
Approved For Release con 0s ESL IMER TS e000200210001- 7: #31: d7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: I could barely ... I was aware of a fence way off in the distance. . . which was the other side of this thing, I think. And it was, I would think several hundred acres in here. Okay, what... Like it had been. . all the vegetation had been aggravated - it just wasn't going to grow anymore. What is the circular pattern thatyou have there in the left? That was some kind of a pad that was raised a few Feet off the ground. Okay. Also associated with this point, we had big rounded tanks, vertical pipes, smaller tubes coming up and turning to what you perceived to be south. Yes. Emitting gas or steam high pressure with. . and you could tell that because it had a straight spreading linear pattern instead of (not audible). Somewherevery close to this is little pipes that come up and they were three or four of them. They had a little nozzle on the end of them. They were - it was pressure coming from them. And they were to the right of this big tank here. Okay. I didn't know what to make of that. And it was, yeah, it was kind of high pressure (not audible) or spraying to the right. Okay. Good. Rather than just a lazy drift. On the far side of the open area within this (not audible - both talking at once). These were pipes or tubes or something. You know near this big tank like. Very good. And. . click click click. 19 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000200210001-7 ya i
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : ert ET ap 200210001-7 31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #313 t7: #31: #7: #31: #73 #31: #73 Several vertical tubes shapes in a row. Height being approximately 1% times their diameter. Oh, yes, I had forgotten those. Those to the right were somewhere in the right of this thing. I'm not sure exactly position relative to the fence but . . . Did I say how big these things were? No, you. . the proportions were height 1% times diameter on my notes. Uh huh. PAUSE There were several of them in a row and its like if you buried POL drums a third of their length into the ground, except these things I gathered were 15 or 20 feet across in diameter. Then they were off in the distance and kind of to the right, Okay. And your last or second, your last two things you may already have them on there. You had a railroad spur, loops or cable laid out on the ground. Is that what you're working on there? Its this thing right here. Okay. There was more than one of those, I don't know how they were laid out relative to each other. Okay. But I saw them in there. But there was a lot of I guess trucks or something. .. . had been all over the place. and just beat the hell out of the land- scape. Pretty baren. And just when you were asked if there was anything to add, this side of the fence a short puff of smoke from a building. Yes. Oh, okay, in the very foreground. Down. . Down in this area here I could . . and that was from a-different angle so that's not going to work out. But I saw the end of two buildings and there was a. . . My gosh, I'm sure getting a lot of these ccnical shapes, aren't I? Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96- 00788R000200210001 -7 20 1m 8h
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 EE Ret p2e%000200210001-7 #7: #31: #7: #31: #73 #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: #7: #31: Coming out of this building was just a big burst of flame and it just quit. You know, just. . Okay. I wasn't sure which side of the. . . which where in relation to the fence, I thought it was below me and I thought it was this side of the fence. I had drifted over - I don't know. I have no idea, Okay. That was it, wasn't it. Uh, right. That's . . that's the extent of my notes through the session. Have you... Well, have you any comments to make or any... . . feel or flavor or anything you'd like to add to this (not audible)? This whole thing looked so fractured, I don't see how you can get anything out of it. I didn't have time to look at any of them and make sense out of any of them. I get the perspective - if you can make heads or tails out of them I feel real good about it, but not to me. Well, I certainly think I can. How did you feel about your session? I felt like I was very deep. Okay. I was curious. I have a note here. No sooner than he started to talk it seemed then the people at the other end of the airconditioning duct fired up their drill and.. I didn't hear them. That's good, Well fine. I don't have any more. Thank you very much. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : Cl 8R000200210001-7 Lm eS