Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001000240001-5 SECRET od GRILL FLAME PROGRAM SESSION REPORT ad CLASSIFIED BY:MSG,DAMI-ISH DATED :051630ZJUL78 REVIEW ON: @xt_aoed | ~ GRILL FLAME NOT R eFaN NATIONALS Approved For Release 2000K DBZ ol eor 46-00788R00 000240001;5 -- ORCON ‘3 ep oer
Approved For Release Sh 3 or TIME #14: #14: +10 #20.5: +15 #105: #10.5: +25 #10.5: TRANSCRIPT REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION D-65 This will be a remote viewing session for 1 October 1980. Mission time is 1030 hours. PAUSE All right #10.5, the time is now 1030 hours. Your mission for today is to locate Thomas Ahern. I want you to describe his location to me, describe any other hostage personnel at this location, and tell me about the physical security at this location. I want you now to relax, relax, concentrate, focus your attention on Thomas Ahern. PAUSE Uh...okay, I'm under a roof feeling....a large room....door appears..uh..offset from middle of the room. It's more towards one end......on the ground. I'm on the floor trying to find out what I got here. PAUSE I'm getting the....he is in the building that.....the stairs on the right, stairs on the right, and he is upstairs to the right. I'm there. He is...-ein the lobby area upstairs, and...e.-.eand on the left side of the hall....ummm...... farther to the other end, but not at the end ....uh...like one square back from the end of thehall, left side. PAUSE He is alone in the room......go in bed right side drawing some blocks.....boxy thing by the door,...c.seeeeehave to peek around it to see him. I'm going to go next door......- eeeccvesvceeeeGive me a minute. PAUSE The...e...man next door is a older man, glasses, widows peak, thinning hair on top. I can......uh........recognize WAM. cececcsvereeee His bed is on the left. He seems to be sitting up. Fewer people in here than before...sceceece Approved For Release rocebhetodih ot oc-o07ear001000240001-5
Approved For Release ——— +40 #10.5: #10.5: #105: #10,53 PAUSE Up around. ..eeeUheeeee feeling Next doOresscecccccvecvecs Wait a minute. PAUSE I'll try again.......-again......ummm........1 keep getting a guy that locks like Abraham Lincoln, and the kid that looks like a guy I know.........-Okay. I'll go to work on the guards. PAUSE Umnm.....got a walking guard upstairs. He......walks up and down the heall. Has a.....automatic weapon an his shoulder, casually draped over his shoulder. He walks back and forth eeseeeeeOkay. I'm on the move now. I'm in....uh....overhea sitting area. There's only one guard in the hall. And verhead sitting area was a rail overlooking the....-lheees ntrance to the lobby. Curved railing. Haven't got anybod up here. Guard leans over the railing and yells down in the lobby talking..........and he's talking right straight down. Sort of below of there is that box thing, I didn't see it when I came in, but it's there now.......got a couple guys itting there with.......uh.......feet draped up on ..-..uhees Cesk and he's sort of chatting then leaning over the rail.... that is.....uh.e......some reason ['m not attracted to the other wing. PAUSE some feller's (phonetic) up here sitting room...not ch-cheap plastic dayroom furniture and overstuffed type thing. I'm going downstairs, and right through the center of the lower...okay...ummm...any (mumbling) square here....csscseees It's got a table in front of it. And, it's got a door in the back of it and bullshitting with the people upstairs. I did not have the table. This is no table. There was a table somewhere around here, and uh, they are moving all..... darken in there.......security the least intent there than before, and right now, I want to say is this guy down at the end of the ground level floor hall, leaning against, leaning against the...+e.ece.-.wall, He's not hiding. He's just sort of leaning against the hall sort of looking back up towards to the central lobby, and he's like down at the end which is the dumb place to be. Four guys. This is it. Now, Outside.......Il'm still getting...ummm...I want to go out the doors and see what I'm.....uh.....and go back 2 Approved For Release 2000S Cipifiohpero0788R001000240001-5
Approved For Release SS #10.5: #14: #10.5: #143 #10.5: #143 #10.5: #14: #10.5: #14: #10.5: #14: #10.5:3 #14: eoeeeoesand put myself in front of the desk...seosevee PAUSE All right #10.5, you continue to work as you're working. At this time I have to change the tape, which I will do as quietly as possible. Right. The tape has been changed. We are now ready to continue. od PAUSE | h/ Hummmmmmi'm in the place that's got the woods outside. Ummm....-path through the woods. Think that's where I am. 1 think I recognize the building from before. And,..eees uh..+..definitely less security than five, six months ago, because I think there are fewer people here. It doesn' t seem like this is the many people packed in here is to begin with......but, I think I'm on the compound, and I'm in the place where.....-.-some woods outside, and, you know, I could go back through......uh......other reports and find it. That's about it. Don't feel there's anybody outside like there was before. There were a couple of skulkers in the woods before, but there's none there now in the immediate area, anyway. There's none around here. That's about it for me. Okay. #10.5. Very gaod. You had a good session. End of session. We'll be ready for debrief in a few seconds. Okay. We are now ready for debrief. What do you want first? (Sigh) Let's see. I'll give you the, I'll give you the downstairs lobby type deScriptions.eerclaevee eOKAVoecccecreses Sure. eoeeeefOr identification of the structure. Yeah. And, and I believe in the same area, you were mentioning some kind of leaning over railing, box like Ching, arnd..cccooUheeconvevves Approved For Release 2opefertetebtererfnss-00788R001000240001-5
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001000240001-5 #10.5: ed ww #lds #105: #14: #10.5: _ Yeah, that was like.....-yeah, that was when I started looking for guards, yeah, okay. Uh.....okay, it's ..uh.. There is some funny box like thing there....this. ... It's as though the damn thing sits in the middle of the room. I don't know if I've made this up and carried it with me throughout this project or not, but there's something there like a booth that sits in the middle of the damn..... and, in front of this booth here, I've drawn the table....eae- and, I had the feeling during the session that there were two guards there, okay. Uh......believe in the back, farther behind back from that booth is where the wall is, and that there is.....-like that wall continues, and then there's something goes back like that. Hallway in on the left, on the left side.....ah.....on the right side is.....a straight up..»-.okay....straight up staircasing, okay, and there's the wall like that, okay.......and then in the background of that (scratching noise on tape).....on this level here, actually, I suppose it probably comes up a little bit more than that, there is the, let me see now, if I'm down a little bit, then the perspective would be.....there's this feeling of a....-you know, the overhang of the upper deck..-...came in, in the background here, and then the hall goes off again. 50, this wall continues on up, and this wall continues on up. This wall continues on up like that, and this wall continues on up and would make a bow (phonetic) in there, and that goes back like that, and there is a....uh....okay, I had this feeling Of ....-se0> Yeah! We're done (Somebody interrupted session debriefing) Huh! Okay, ....okay, okay, and then down in under, and behind the stair, okay, so we end up with hall, hall. Throughout this entire thing, now, I've probably run against this target and recollecting, maybe four or five times or better inithis project...I have never been in this end of the building. I have always been in the right end everytime I've ever been down there. I don't know if I cah't go down there or if there's just nothing of interest. Aha. Windows across the back of the upper deck like that. Okay? And, then here, this is what I referred to as the lounge area upper deck, and this is a curved balcony overlooking lobby...central downstairs room.....front entrance is out of the foreground of the picture, I suppose if I did that..... okay, this damn box thing, I swear it's there. It's some sort of a booth or something there which be.....Uheevsee I forget to put my microphone on, I apologize. I'm going to turn the..uh..turn the tape recorder down. You'll be able to hear me regularly now whoever is typing this or whatever. 4 Approved For Release 2000/0 rer fANERLFESIEEP 07 88R001000240001-5
Approved For Release 2000/0068 fre Fesbaefaeaia7 88R001000240001-5 #10.53 #14: #10.5: #14; #10053 #10.5: Umm..and, there's some sort of a rear door out of the box. IT saw a guy walk out of there. Okay? The damn thing’s been there. It's always been there, and I don't know if it's just some BS that I'm carrying with me through this praject. Qkay? That's sketch one. Oh! I'm sorry. Then there's a hall goes that way, and then there's a hall, okay. Could you give me some type of overhead type sketch locating the rooms where you found these...uh...the hostages? Okay. Okay. On sketch two I will draw the right side of sketch one.....+.--It's om the left here is the lobby, and it's the upstairs lounge, okay. And, then, like back tucked back up like this..the booth..okay, and the table, okay. I think the wing is only five long.... I didn't get across the hall, so I don't know. So I go to those in...dotted lines, okay...uh...Ahern. There's some sort of a box here, and JS he is alone in bed. No one else, this is a...like a booth. I think this might be like a schrank....... Closet. fh Closet or a..uh..maybe a toilet }¥pe thing, and the door is like here. Okay? Uh...th ane down, I went down, I felt the bed was on the left side. I did not....I didn't have a feeling for booth, but then I could see him directly. Maybe there is a booth there. So, I'll dot that in. Okay? And, this is the guy that I will identify later, where the X is. Okay? Now, in the third room to the left, when I started, I started at Ahern, and I went, one and left one more. I had...I didn't get any room layout, but I had the pictures of the guy that looked like Abraham Lincoln, and the...a guy that looks like a guy I know. Okay? So, it's two Xs. I'll call that X-one and in this room, there's X=two and X-three. All right. And, I did not get a layout Feeling. But, I felt that, I felt that Ahern and this other guy who......the name Bob came to mind....(mumbling) session Bob was....they were alone, and then when I got into the next room down I had two feelings. Okay? Pillar, pillar, and this is......upstairs lounge. Is that what you need? Now, okay. I had the feeling that the guard which in sketch one is leaning over the rail BS'ing, was in reality a walker.....okay?......The attitude there was much mere relaxed, and the guard aad down the hall, and he just, at had thig- automatic voapape ie this. Un...FAN orf@FAL” I forget : cronym is. Just sort of like drape right shoulder...and, he was just plodding along. You know. He wasn't at port arms...... always on the alert. You still got half a tape left here. Okay for two. Approved For Release 2000 FEES RAE. 00788R001000240001-5
Approved For Release 2000/0 2faiteacefanutRefaaeRa7 88R001000240001-5 #10.53 #L4: #10.5: #14: #10.5: #14: #10.5: #14: #10.5: Approved fdr Release. 2006/08/07 - Now, the downstairs... In sketch two I've drawn the up- stairs hall. Okay? And, on the upper part of sketch two let me draw the downstairs hall. If you want me to. It's just the mirror image, it's just a repeat of that. Except that in the downstairs hall there was only one guard as well. And he was like standing down at the far end of the hall, which I thought was a very dumb position. Because granted they could get anybody in a cross fire that broke out of that room, but they would waste each other in the process, because they'd have, they'd be shooting at each other. Okay, but did you have a feeling there were hostages down- stairs? Well, no, I didn't have the real f-, I didn't sec or feel any hostages down there. Okay. Okay. I didn't...I...by that time, by the time I got down- stairs I was looking only for guards though. Okay. Qkay. I think that's good enough. Okay, andthe other thing about it is- for naRg. the debrieffng- is I felt three significant changes, I think. The...¢he hostage density did not appear to be as extens or as hgh level as my earlier sessions in this place. Earlier s Lhe... feeding: that=-they were packed tuo to a room, and that all rooms in at least the right wing were occupied. But here there \ was like one, and= one to a room and didn't appear hostage population, er pignif icant change is the guarding has become fit ore relaxed, possibly because of a lower density of hos- tages. But the guarding activities are, uh, instead of ~tables where Guards can fortify themselves an \oclear fields of fire down a a + now have fewer quargs and the guards, some o em just walk up and down the halls. Which makes them more vulnerable. Okay. But they've relaxed. That makes the guards more individually vulnerable. But they themselves have relaxed.... Huh, we gonna say three things. I think the third one that I would want to say is that every time again that I've worked against this BG Or end And I'll...one more Ge downstairs...leaning. Okay. I'll write t@o "G"s at the , Two guards. The guard on the right -have"a headache too. Uh...That's about it... Okay. What do we got now? Pictures? Um, I've got an overhead picture of the compound. You want me to look at that? NOT SSRON100024000148:t do Familiar where you were? you have a €g&k
Approved For Release 2000/08 @ : ¥ ee #10.5: #14; #10.53 #14: #10.5; #14: #10.5: #14: #10.5: #14: #10.5: #143 #10.5:3 #14: #10.5: Well, yeah... Well, I'11 tell you, what I will say- Maybe this is- ra y ” A ~is it's the- confusion. Well, it's the...I, it's the one where whg door you walk through a thing in the woa way- you walk down through the woods, .4 in another session. I can correlgs But I'd have to say it's building Okay. Right off the top of my head the configuratter”and the nearness of woods leading to what I would expect to be a gate, is "A", the Embassy. Okay. But now that I am looking at that build-. ing in this manner, and that from the, from the wooded side looking at the Embassy, the right side is the right wing where the hostages are. Qn the second level. At least on the second level. Now there is some confusion in my mind as_to whether I'm warehouse or Embassy. I'11 state that. é...well, I, you know, you've never, I do not know where I was before. So this is probably not the right thing for us to do. you walk out this fs. And you walk can identify it Hae sessions for you. Right. Because I've never been told where I was before, so there- fore- I just wanted, I just wanted you to get a spontaneous feel- ing. Yeah. Yeah, well the spontaneous feeling is automatifally this long, elongated building with the square in it. That was the first place I looked at when you showed me the photo- graph. Good. And, uh, at this time I would like you to look through the photographs- Is there anything in here that you don't want me to see? Hostage personnel- Okay, then I'll just- -to see if we can identify some. Okay, we're ready to con- tinue. Okay. So, moying fropemat 's-his-nane’s place, Ahern's ao e6om, I'm sorry. Moving to the room to the lef was the guy that I said had white hair with the wif He was sitting up in bed. Okay. Uh, and 7 Approved For Release 2000 GRRL oiideiandeve0788R001000240001-5
Approved For Release 2000/0807 FC} RDAS6=90788R001000240001-5 #10.5: #14: #10.5: #14: #105: #14: #10.5: — #14: in my identification process, here- and his name Yas Bo In my identification process here I overlooked what'e<his'name? Blucker. ‘Cause he wasn't wearing glasses, I think, is“tne"rT why I didn't identify him on the way through the first couple times. Um...I believe that they guy next to Ahern on the left is - Blucker And I believe he wears glasses, and that like they might be reading glasses that he just wears, and so that's why they're not shown on the photograph. Uh, okay, that's that. The other, pulled out Right, [ip Morefield because he has the, essentially the same physical configurations, and he has a widow's peak, and he was wear- ing glasses. But his hair is dark, and he appears to me to be a younger man. Even though he has a full face, he appear a younger man. And he just did not fit. And as #14 can say, I went back through and through and through the damn pictures, you know, lookin' for the right guy. Okay. what was the guy's name? I had Um, moving to the left one more room where "X2" and "x3" is on sketch 2, uh, the spontaneous images were those I've picked out here. The guy that looks like Abraham Lincoln is Gary E. Lee. Okay? Always pull him out. There's no way to mistake that. And Subic , who reminds me of a former close friend of mine. Okay. So I always manage to pull that out. I feel real firm about those. And this guy here, John Earl Graves, is there somewhere. And the reason he's there somewhere is that when I was working between the room with Blucker, and the room with, um, Subic and Lee, okay, I got, I got this, I was working, trying to resolve who the guy was in there, and the first image-=tex was the nose. That nose. You see that nose on Mm=hmm. It's inflamed and red, sort of bulbous. 50, the- what I'm saying is the, that Graves is in there somewhere. Now he might be in the room with Subic. Okay? Or he might not be. But the bulbous nose and the full beard, there may be some overlap between the Graves and the Lee. One of the two of 'em are there and the other one might be next door. Okay. [t's that bulbous nose. And I know what it's like to have that, ‘cause, uh...it doesn't mean the guy's an alcoholic or anything, but it's a viral skin infection. And my father had it. Okay. Is there anything else, uh, you can think of for debrief. Approved For Release 2OnDEN orf efP 96-00788R001000240001-5
Approved For Release 2000/@0Z5 DPSE-00788R001000240001-5 #10.5: #14: Um, the only thing I'd like to add is that even the outside in earlier session, outside in the woods I had said that there were, in the lobby, two or three people watching eager- ly out the front windows...of the place, in the main place. wiside, stepped out in the woods that there were guards. These, these feelings and these ikay s did not come through this time. There was nobody lurking around outside as they had earlier. That's all I have to add, — Okay. End of session. 9 Poy Approved For Release 200d Hexeyqiefemites-00788R001000240001-5
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001000240001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001000240001-5
FF EV ESM” a t i. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R00100040001-5
Se Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA- RDP96- 00788R001000240001 -5 -—-.@ a LR ay 5 ix fF bt Lew e $s wine ee ae BARD ) & = —= me ee ee one Ye, — po rf (4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001060240001-5
Approved For Release ga alas TARGET CUING INFORMATION REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION D-65 1. (S/NOFORN) The remote viewer has been exposed to open source news media information as well as classified overhead imagery and numerous photographs of hostage personnel. He knew he would be working against the hostage situation in Iran. . 2, (S/NOFORN) At the time of the session the remote viewer was shown the attached photograph and was asked to find Thomas Ahern. He was asked to identify Ahern's location, describe any other U.S. hostage personnel, and to describe physical security at this location. Approved For Release 2€ = §-00788R001000240001-5 NOT RELEASABLE-“TE WNALS  ORCON
SGFOIA3 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001000240001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001000240001-5