+35 #66 #1 #66 #1 Approved For Release 2000/08/0 88R000100120001-8 OK. I'd now like to try to broaden your perception by exchanging some information with me and you now. Something we haven't done before and we may..may help you to understand what's going out there. The area that you described to me appears from your description to me to possible be only a small portion of the building..one area of the building. This building that you're in is very very large and I am wondering if you are looking at one area and perhaps seeing the wall and thinking that's the end of the whole building when actually if you went through that wall to the other side you would find that there is much more to the entire building. I'd like you now to relax and concentrate and focus on the concept of this very large, large building, and see, through exploration, if you can't find the bigger perspective in this building. (not audible) and I look through the wall. I see on the tunnel side, the tunnel wall, I see nothing but outside... PAUSE On the other wall standing in the ramp to my left I see glass windows very high up and steel doors to the left.. big doors. But they are going outside. To my right I see..Il am looking cross sectionally through many, many Floors and offices. And to my front I'm seeing more’ room. There's a ..get the feeling...I'm looking ... very organized ...I am looking at a very hugh manufacturing facility of some sort..through the front wall..like an assemply plant and it's one open building, very hugh with gray (not audible) and machines. Move now into that area so that you might explore it better. There's doors in this wall that separate the rooms and this room I'm in now is a great rows of machines..tooling dies and I think this is where the noise is coming from. It's very loud in here..much louder than the other room. I'm getting an impression like I had in the other session like there's a mock up of some sort or a partially completed form and there's great deal of metal welding and this sort of thing. ee ee a R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/ 9788R000100120001-8 #66 OK. Try to describe your position of observation now. #1 Dead center, overhead, PAUSE #1 Dead center overhead. #66 Alright. Now, to your right I want you to move to the extreme end of this area down to your right. #1 OK. I'm in the corner. #66 Now look out over the area now and tell me from this perspective what you see. #1 Uh...uh...I see a ..see a..to my front right I see a some big moving type thing with great hunk of metal hanging from it, and it's like suspenders, a little “lays off the floor and there's a fanning out to the left of that is..what appears to be a great number of rows of machines .. Large machines and towards the center of the room on the far side there's a..like a light up type object. woth #66 Light up of what. #1 It looks Like the back deck and the sail portion o£ a subjarins, But it's not..you know..it's not a complete ship of any sort. Te, #66 Move again from this area, exploring through the walls move again. PAUSE #1 OK. I go to the wall I came through and make a left. I see all the high windows and doors and it goes to the outside. I go through the righthand side I see cross sectionally many offices and there's another tunnel type of thing..looks like some kind of another ramp that goes into the offices and, if I go straight ahead I come out in a..some kind of a yard..some kind of a big yard and there's a..there's two big doors there..and..a..kind of overhead framework. There's a sort of lumber yard only it's metal PAUSE Approved For Release 2000/08/0
Approved For Release 2000/4 #1 £66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 Oa 3 88R000100120001-8 I get a strong impression that..a..there's really three or four really significant things that are occuring in this building. I think they are all related. I don't get any sense of re... (turned tape over) eeel get a tremendous feeling of modification and assembly. Modification in the big room and assembly in the little room. For some reason, I can't call the other room little, it's fairly large and...a... almost like a fabrication type thing...getting a feel...you know...just a strong feeling of modification Like something is being done..that..that something already exists. To either improve it or upgrade it or add some other potential to it. OK. Describe your position of observation, right now. Just kind of all over the building. Alright. Focus your attention, right now, above the building, outside and above the building. OR. Now in order to orient where you are, let's work with your front rear, left right. Tell me what's to your front, describe what's to your front. To my front is a (pause) looking down on the building to my top sort of ......to my front. If I was...let's do it this way..if I'm standing on the roof in the south looking to my front there is a sort of indescriminate type building much lower that's connected to the one I am standing on. It ends on water. And to my right, is a loading dock and a channel of some sort (not audible) with water. And to your rear.. To my rear is a angular framed storage area with pieces and stuff laid out, lumber yard place like only with metal, and to my left is a continuation of the building I am on. That cross sections and offices. Fairly large building extension. LO 88R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 200 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #1 #66 #1 788R000100120001-8 Move over to the edge. Which one. To your front. Move over to the edge to your front and look straight down over the edge and describe what's down there. The roof of another building, it looks like. It is a big flat area with a..I get the impression therds two channels there, like a flat area with a two big channels running through it..big square flat area..looks like a roof. OK. Now move to another edge. The one immediately to the left from where you are now. OK. I see all the way to the ground and further down on the left is another extension of the building that comes out,..right angles to the wall I'm looking over. PAUSE I get the feeling, when you said look over the edge and I see the building roof, I get the feeling I'm looking at water too and I don't..I get a strong feeling of that..I'm seeing that..the roof, I am not seeing water. T don't know how to explain that. I am getting the Eeeling of consolidation, too. I..don't ask me why I am saying that now, but I..I get a feeling a consolidation »ethat's a flash type feeling. I better mention it. T..I..1.,you know I mentally want to see big  sub- Marines, but there are none. I'm seeing a much smaller class of submarine that I am normally used to, for some reason. Where are you seeing..... I'm just getting flashes of these. They're not your typical large submarine. I'm getting flashes of the smaller version, for some reason or another. They appear to be as fat as the old ones but they're shorter and their ..the sail isn't very high..it's...uh..... just..I don't know..I just get the..I'm getting the flashes and..uh..f sense that's important. 1l 000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 3.Ci4- KDH95 410768R000100120001-8 #66 ah #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 Tell me where they are. They're under a roof somewhere but they're in water. They are connected to the building and they are under a roof and they are in water. Describe your position of observation as you look at these. Uh..I don't know. I'm just seeing them, Alright. Fine. I want you to keep them in mind. I want you to keep them in mind. We have been at this for quite a while now but later this afternoon I want us to go back to those very last images that you've just had. Later this afternoon I want to go back to those images that you've just had and work on them as our focus point. OK. So I want you to ingrain them right now..remember them. When you're ready sit up and draw what we've had this morning and then later this afternoon we'll go back to those images you've just had. OK. ( ATMINISTRATIVE NOTE: The narrative portion of this session wherein the viewer drew his impressions was recorded but has not been included in this transcript because it provided no additional information and is of little analytical value. A cassette tape of the entire session is stored at the INSCOM GRILL FLAME Project Office. Approved For Release 2000/08/ BRO00100120001-8
Approved For Release 20@ #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 ~~ — #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 | Ve 6-00788R000100120001-8 They, they drove in from the sea. Through a wall.... that doesn't make sense. I get the feeling they go under a wall..through a wall.....through a door in a wall. OK. That's fine. That's fine. I want to make sure that I understand what you've told me. That I don't want to be suggesting anything to you SO..... They, go through a wall. I want you to correct me if I have interpreted what you said incorrectly. They are inside the end of this large building in some sort of parking bay. No. They're not in the big building. Alright. Good. Tell me where they are. They're under a different roof by the end of the building. Under a different roof by the end of the building. A flat gray roof. I see a flat gray roof. PAUSE Now, I want to review something here. I had you standing in front of the building, on the water, OK, and I told you it was 1 January 1980. Now, what happened to your perspective then? Tell me what took place when you opened your eyes. I saw this water in the bays and (not audible)..ships eens DAYS s woe These bays are not in the building.....because you were looking at the building before so I can't understand what you what the change is. I look, I look at the building on the outside and I see.. ..uh..L see the building, or I look at the bays and I see a dark square roof, and, it's in the building, the building that I don't see..it's in the building. I don't..I think it's on the end of the building. That's the best I can do. Alright. There seems to be a point of confusion there, but we'll just leave it that. When we draw, you will have to clear it up, when we draw a little later. 9 ~ | Approved For Release 2000 beREE eM eppsfeee7s8R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 200 TREN Ror eer yx00788R000100120001-8 +37 #66: #O1: #66: #01: #66: #OL: #66: #O1: #663 #01: #66: #01: #66: #01; #66: #O1: Will you turn your focus now to the submarines themselves. Turn your focus now to 1 January 1980 to those submarines that you sea them working on, There's something funny about the submarines. I don't see any kind 6f marking on it...no flag or anything. I just see small numbers. There's no flags, no colors on the submarines. Seems kind of unusual. And what do you see...what kinds of markings are there? Just numbers. On the submarines, where are these numbers written? They're on the front top, right corner of the sail looking from the sides. They're small...very small letters. What color are they? The color of the numbers..is white. White on black. How many numbers..how many digits..how many different numbers are there? Four digits. Four different numbars. Are there any letters? No. No letters. Read me the numbers. 2,.and..uh..5..9 and al. TFT am not sure about the 9s. That second 9. Do the other submarines have numbers? Uh..yes. they have numbers. I see..uh..no numbers on the little submarine. Wait a minute..that doesn't.,.1 don't know. I sea a smaller submarine, but I am not sure where I see it. Three, seven is the first two numbers on another. I think the next number is four and it’s either an eight or a zero on the end. 0 Approved For Release concierto eter eefseperesr000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/08 oy peer fe fee-po788R000100120001-8 #O1l: I can't see the rest of the numbers...... #66: Okay. Describe these conning tower to me. #Ol: Uh..they're two-levels..they're very thin..in width, but they're very wide. Not as wide as ours. Our submarines are much larger, but these are thin and wide and not very tall, but not as tall as ours..fairly tall. Sort of a..shaped like a backward "H" with thick legs. #66: Stand on the conning tower and look to the aft of the submarine. Describe the aft portion of the submarine. #O1l: Gan't see it. #66: Tell me why you can't see it. #O1l: It's a..it's covered with water. I only see the tubes. #66: Tell me about the tubes. ypQw 3 od Ve gy) S (az Mhegie #O1: They! re,,a, egeckafe—tyuere plating is gone and they're canted and they're being removed..being removed. #66: How many of them are there? #01: I see twelve, twelve tubes. Twelve, ten or twelve. I can't see the last two very..very clear. There's a..two that really look different. #66: How are they different? #Ol: .....They're very small, very small. They don't appear to ..uhhhave the same functions as the others. They're just different, different size. I don't know why they're different, but they're different. #66: Okay. I assume...I have a question for you now. A peculiar question. Are you still in 1980? #O1: Yes, #66: All right. What time of day is it that you're looking at these? 11 . % Approved For Release poorer teense ber ssn000100120001-8 all uncovered..ail the
_ Apprgved Gpr Release 200 #06: #01: #06: #01: #06: OOking’ ates the time. All right. Fine. DO yOUcecees Don't worry about the time. Do you want the time there? I want to know if it's a normal time of activity. Do you see people doing things? Yese All right. Tt's.eit's..it's early afternoon there. All right. -eeeebut, there's something..uh..you asked, you asked me thateeces I don't know. Something is wrong with this my time. I don't know. Their time is afternoon. That's fine. That's what I was interested in, is if it was a working time there, and you say yes, there are people doing things there. Now.....sturn around now, and face forward and describe the forward part of the submarine. There's aeethere's a.s-raised area.e.above the water; it goes for maybe..uh..75 feet, and the rest is under the water. There's aeethere's a hatch..there's a hatch..two..two hatches in the..the raised portion. All right. Fine. Now, I want you to put yourself out back away from the submarines a little bit and tell me again how many submarines do you see in 1980, January 1980, 1 January 1980. See, see four. All right. Are these four, all of them similar? YeSe All right. One is different a little bit, but..I think it's just older e-eone is just older. Okay. I want you to relax and concentrate now while I turn the tape over. Just relax and focus on the target now. T'tl ask you another question in a minute. (tape turned over) Approved For Release 2000/ : 0788R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/0 DMCS pI 52R000100120001- Noweeel don't know if it's..«emaybe it's my perspective of the larger submarine. Maybe looking down on tem I get the impression of a small submarine because a lot of it is hidden in the water, and the side view I'm seeing the entire thing, I dontt know if it's that or if somewhere in the area of this building or in this building they're not doing a like version of this submarine only a smaller varietyseeeel just geteesel ‘m getting flashes of a more compact submarine. Essentially the same design but a more compact model so to speak. Sort of like a pocket battle- ship, you know. Okay. A battleship, but nevertheless, but a smaller version. This is a good profile submarine. It's definitely what it looks like. Okay. How do you feel about this..-uh.ethis session? I feel real good. I was getting a really strange sensation at the very end, like my whole body was rolling over on the couch here, but...I don't know if that was nerve reaction in my body.«eeslaying so long in one position or note... was definitely getting strong feeling that I was...ha, ha...rolling overe Anything you want to add? Nope. That'll do it then. Approved For Release 2000/0 TRE EAR aFrapr000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100120001-8 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 +37 #66 #1 #66 #1 / a Will: you turn your focus now to the submarines ‘and—suchs thé Turn your focus now to 1 January 1980 to those submarines As you see them working on. There's something funny about the submarines, I don't see any kind of marking on it...,. 2 flag or anything. I just see small numbers. TAKA MO, flags, no +atter--thanm sumbarines. Seems kind of unusual. Colors on 4h And what,.do you see.....what kinds of markings are Chey? Just numbers. On the submarines, where are these numbers written? They're on..vfhat top corner of the. 207. | teak andere) looking from the sides. They're small.....very small letters. What color are they? The color of the numbers....is white. White on black. (fVeret How many numbers ..how many digits....how many numbers are there? Four digits. tives Four dteit numbers. Are there any letters? No. No letters. Read me the numbers. 2,.and..uh..5..9 and al. I am not sure about the 9s. That second 9. Do the other submarines have numbers? uUh..yes. They have numbers. I see..uh..no numbers on the Little submarine. Wait a minute..that doesn't .-L don't know. I see a smaller submarine but I am not sure where I ages: . Three, seven is the first two numbers on I think the next number is four and it's either an eight or a zero on the end. LO Approved For Release 2000 >UIA- 6-00788R000100120001-8
ea Approved For Release ‘oe #1 #66 #1 Very #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 Approved For Release 200 I can't see the rest of the numberS.cccoes OK. Describe these conning tower tome. . ; kr Ain Uh..they're two levels..they're ery Tat audibte) : : ' ‘ . : ; eein width but they re very wide. Nog A wide aS fin guide cond wot ours. Our submarines are much Lauper: V tall but not as tall as ourd 2% SGrt of a..shaped like a backward "a" with thick legs. Stand on the conning tower and look to the aft of the submarine. Describe the aft portion of the submarine. Can't see it. Tell me why you can't see it. Tt's,..ae.it's covered with water. I only see the tubes. Tell me about the tubes. They're..a-eit's like they 'peyatt uncovered..all..the plating is gone and Sesnaney.and..they're being removed.. being removed. How many of them are there? T see twelve, twelve tubes. Twelve, ten or twelve. I can't see the gett tube THght. There's a..two that eally look different. really eren last two vey, very alead How are they different? 4 % Ahh. They're very small, very small. They go ..vrthe-pier.- Ghey have the same functions as the others. They're just different, different size. I don't know why they're different, but they're different. Dente kh ee OKO” IT have a question for you now. A peculiar question. Are you still in 1980? Yes. Put 4 Altight. What time of day is it that you're looking at these? il 6-00788R000100120001-8
Approved For Release ORDA euaeTFaase00788R000100120001 8 oh ah. ae —— #1 Uh. .uh..looking..looking at. “A having trouble with al the time. , ‘ ‘ _ aa — #66 aright. Fines Lncl por oY A #1 Do you ado you want the time there? #66 I want to know if it's a normal time of activity. Do you see people doing things? #1 Yes. #66 Alright. ‘ ay. fh ee? doe Med Ho | #1 It's..it's, early agterpoe there vs but there's something wath - at, - Sr, Re oe ae a : “a eeeeeyou asked he ‘that. there's s mething wrong with thes my time OP ime is afternoon. #66 ‘That's fine. That's what I was interested in, is if it was a working time there, and you say yeSr there are people doing things there. Now, turn around now and face forward and describe the forward part of the submarine. #1 There's a,,there's awraised ‘area... ..above the water, Tt goes -rom maybe. .uh..75 feet and , the rest is under the water. There's a..there's a hatch, .a atetre hatch..two.. ww two hatches in the..jf the raised portion. #66 Alright. .Fine. Now I want you to put yourself out back away from the submarines a little bit and tell me again how many submarines do you see 1980, January 1980, : 1 January 1980. pn #1 See, four. x #66 Alright. Are these four, all of them similar? #1 Yes. #66 Alright. #1 One is different a little bit, but......I think it's just older....-one is just older. . bo Km #66 I want you to relax and concentrate now while I turn the tape over. Just relax and focus on the target nows:. I'll ask you another question in a minute. (tape turned over) 12 Approved For Release 200 0updyenfSfapeppPspe00788R000100120001-8 —
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100120001-8 #1 466 aL hying #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #2 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 . on 4 t ft ran pike aie petite § vy +e bodies” moving around. What is your position of observation? PE debe hivel a ot the the sy he Uh..I'm on the, conning tower Pf MIRUDMAGINGs yee e es gad mt Kinda tret-eudibtbe-...on my left side. : Alfight. Now, stand down on the foredeck of the submarine, where the hatch is. Which hatch? The little one or the big one.’ tof O flagpn The big one /Now, from the submarine, look up. What is above you? Rows of lights. Two kinds of lights. I feel....I feel like.....a....one light typé. Feel ,beat from one ofthe lights. 92. A 4 abe A wane And further up..... h ? ; - . @ Girgers. Construction girters. Move up to the girfers. Now looking back down, describe the area from that perspective. ae ; ee" PAUSE we “we Uh...e+-looking down on three big bays there'S a.s.veoes How high are you? Maybe 100 feet...no not that high.....55 or 60 :feet. Are you on the inside or outside? I'm inside. Alright. Fine. Tell me about the three big bays. There's four submarines in the two right bays and there's none in the left bay. t Mi Alfight. What's to the front of the submarines? Platform. 13 — Approved For Release cata : EXE te. sorssnocot00t20001.
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100120001-8 #66 #1 #66 #1 +50 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 What's to the rear of the submarines? A wall. A wall and some doors, How do I get the submarines out of here? You open the wall. i] Alfight. Fine. This concludes the amount of questions that I have about this target. This time I'd like to give you the opportunity ‘to say anything that you would like to say about this target. PAUSE I'm #..I'm having a lot of diff ficulty with the end of the building. te aes 1008 reese the submarines on the end of the building, ,and I sée the pus eaang sane no submarines, and I..look,at ‘the submarines “122%, T look up and I see «**wes. _@#i.a.. different building fi”? nh sine and I know that that wall is the..uh..wall of the building. p Alfight. Fine. I think you've done very well. I want you not to be too concerned now about your confusion. This is why we moved you ahead in time because we believe this area to be in a state of flux, right now, under construction and changing. That's why we moved you ahead in time to when it might be completed or when we might have a*firm situation. So I don't want you to be cope 8 about your confusion. : iM BeOT ac pat we L was asked, Spout a sguareyl drew on my last drawing, aan Outside the building area? Yes. f 4 oe é A alfignt, “TE you” wourd like to explore that at this time you may do that. There is a..e....-it's some kind of a nav-aid. The square's a.....a electronics and a little building in it. Some kind of a nav-aid. It...a..they,direct shipping or something there. Some kind of a navigational aid to that port. That's what the building is. Appears to be old, though, for some reason or another me Maybe it's a little out of state-of-the- art....a-tittie old fashioned, oat a 8 oF roe rod Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100120001-8
Approved For Release Sot #1 #66 #1 #66 #1 #1 #66 bo Aga do ~ oa rere AUS de oe thet pile thor! #1 #66 #1 Approved For Release 2000/ but, that's what it is. And it is a little building, I think. I thought it was a box, but it's a little building. i Alright. Are you looking at that...at that little building now or are you looking at it in 1 January 1980? I'm looking at it now. areignt. That's what it is. re LE PAUSE fa That's all I got. (epee , a Alfight. Move your arms and move your legs andgsit pipe up and draw. ee feotend y ar tp. OT Od waes “Pree Apt 3 ek There's 5/CHRWELE type t Fr down the mn side walt There's a platform that comes out from this wall, goe all the way across like this. You have to imagine this wall being here. Then there's another one over here that comes out. And there's a..two more catwalks going like this. All these catwalks are very long and this distance in here is very large. And these go down to the water. That's a wall over here. Down here on the end there's another wall of some sort. Over here there's a...that's tunnel type entrances and ee: this is the one I was in. I get the feeling, goes in sz es the building for some reason. There's another one. And there's a track like things come out of here. Go in different directions and there's water down here. There are three bays, right. And there are four submarines, right. Oh, Yeah. There's a.....page 2 looking down from the top there's a....that’s the wall of the building. And there's two walls to the bay area and there's a back wall. That's the sea over here. 15 IA-RDP96-00788R000100120001-8
Enemas aa Approved For Release 2000/ P -00788R000100120001-8 * #1 Bnd there's a...two side walls, which are darker. Down the side walls are catwalks. Platform at the end, two more catwalks, like this. There's the....Like tunnel ways, of ramp ways, I guess. Through the wall, and the submarines are part Like this. There's nothing in this one. They're all pointed this way. Those first in the bay, they're working on this one weeeeeeand there's something different about this one. It's an older one. I don't know how to explain that, just that it's an older sub. _..and there's a lot less water in these bays. In fe, & January of 1980 which ig this......then there is wpe in the bays here , de us IAd: . 0 ot ; #66 de, never saw the bays in the present time./ It was only after I sent you to 1980 that you saw the bays. #1 ; see OK ees that's probably an“ analysis on my part. But I'll tell you that in 1980 in“January there's less water there for some, reason. at - +eeeereand a...sails on the submarines. First off, pp ats the back deck comes out of the water like this. ~ AY This is like a..eeee let's call this water here. jaet o” pe There's like a rise,thick rise in the sail; there's en a sail and it's shorter than our submarines. _ rae d ? * feos 4, “ The front deck goes out like this and drops way inkd iad the water. And the submarine is actually much larger. And, here, itS Like rectangle on the side of the numbers. Vhs tA pat On the sail.....there's nothing ageti IT could see protrudings Above the sail, on the sub....-.but this area back here is where alli the plating was opened up ( uctibte)....they were working ateng here. Peed hag tne aot _ REL tat Ch aa a very large hatch up front. There's a very a J bd phe? ‘(hee nek” ae submarine. Very strange. And I don't see any a apparent ornament of any sort. I can't think of anything els¢. a #66 OK, Can you explain about your feeling of nuclear? small hatch here. There's no other markings on the 16 ~ | Approved For Release 2000/08 FEC ER fe-YOTESRO00 1001 20001-8
#1 #66 #1 #66 #1 eb Release 2008/08/0 px GIA;RDPO6 -00788R000100120001-8 I was trying to decide whether or not they were nuclear powered or nuclear armed. And for some reason I kept thinking of powered, nuclear powered. But Iget;'e “eased when I Et tail nuclear- anything, ut I just knowy ere's something nuclear about fhem. I think it's probably powered. Some reason I couldn't say armed. Couldn't say armed for some reason, ex—other. I don't understand why but I just couldn't do that. As they're just sitting in those bays, they're just nuclear powered. Let's put it that way. OK. You did make a comment that the tubes were empty. r ape Yes. These tubes were, you know,’ just, like some kind of tube anassticking up out ofjthese very complex type thing down here. They're side-by-side, couple of 'em are sticking 9 further than a couple of the others. Some hadn't been touched at all, and they, thty, tro were extracting ‘em this way. And the ones they were putting in, they were doing some kind of modification down in here, and they were, they were just putting in weit seemed like they were opening ‘em larger, you — know, making ‘em larger, and there was kind '& design difference on the tube for some reason. io What about these tubes that were different? 1. that there's, 10 that look like, gt2 that don't. Back here there *§ two small tubes. And they're. real, small and the Mes thedd Straight up and down and they're a) Ae very short..and I'm not....these are different., I 7 don't know what those are. They're different. You know they're entirely different from the big ones I..-I get a strong feeling that functionally they're Al, different as well. They're there for somethingsee.+. tT don't know what it is..,..ehese cannoling like this. re thee phot you know, I get a feeling almosty the cant in these tubes might be the way they have to be now but not the way they had to be before, you know. Like that might be part of modification. the ort tha? Ahig pe plated pet pe yl Oh! That, in the row of ten engl ths that may be Hof. Approved For Release 2000 . R000100120001-8
Approved For Release 2008 a " me? -00788R000100120001-8 #1 I'm not looking at any,part of the submarine and they could very. well be even.....you know..... some other severe modifications to it somewhere. You know, like a....double the width or something. I don't know. But I almost get a sensation like ~<——~—-— this section of the submarine in its entirety is being modified or changed....that I put in brackets here. It's like that whole thing.....I mean, super structure and all has been changed. But, Z mfGht be wrong. That might be analytic. I just get that feeling. ° phe Toews #66 of Pave a question I wanted to ask you before..... tb even this morning the question came up....something about short submarines and long submarines and then this afternoon again therg™Seemg to be concern about short submarines and long submarines. Will you kind of think about” that for a minute? Ly aff © By Ake #1 6 “don't know.“7 Maybe it's my perspective of the larger submarine. Maybe looking down, might get the impression ; of a small submarine because a lot of it is hidden in the water, andgside view tim geeing the entire thing. I don't know if it's that ty So ewhere in the area of this puilaing , CRONE Ce t1Ging a like version of this submarine only a smallér variety. I just get..... I'm getting flashes of a more compact submarine. Essentially the same design but a.more compact model so tot speak. Sort of Like a pocket battleship, you know. #66 0 ©0OK. por #1 A battleship, but nevertheless a smaller version. This is a good profile gignSl. It's definitely what it looks like. ‘ 4 Batoiorvne » Chui #66 OK. How do you feel about this, session? #1 I feel real good... I was getting a realstrange sensation about”the very end, like my whole body was rolling over on the couch here, ‘-but,...I don't know if that was nerve reaction Erol ny body...-laying so long in one position or not......I was definitely getting strong feeling that I wasMrolling.......... aad Gif Che. 7 Yere [rtrt be and ? é/ a ey hes. } Approved For Release 20 96-00788R000100120001-8