+31 +25 Approved For Release 2000/Q8/0Z : = 96-00788R000400520001-1 #10.5: #66: #10.53 #66: #10253 #66: #10.5: #66: #10.5: #663 #10.5: It's just like a bubble within, ah, just like a bubble inside a cigar. This thing is looking.....more like it's three and a half feet or so in diameter, now, because when I got my hand on the trough, I like put one hand on one side, and had to lean way across to touch the other side. .Like I was picking it up. So, it more...that was before, it's more like three and a half FocleccccccceececeseeeeeesQther than that, I don't know. It's very complex. Okay. Darn, they're so many variances of separate things to talk about. What I want you to do is remember everything that you've seen so you can draw it for me. You don't have to talk about it now. I want you now to....determine what relationship this has for the device you've seen previously. Search to see whether this is the device or. somewhere in the building is the device you saw previously. PAUSE Umm. No, it's not. My device is some place..--now, I don't know if I'm upside down or what. No, I see my device. I felt it was on some sort of conveyor, but there's rollers on the top of it. I can't figure this out. I don't know what I'm doing or where I am. I got this idea ...ah, overhead rollers instead of underneath rollers, and then I had this feeling of this bomb thing sandwiched between two layers of rollers, and being moved....processed, not moved, processed somehow..«- Like it was being degoused or something. You know, Electric, and it was being moved by....itself through or along some certain path,.5...UPp overhead like, inside, you know, where it was subj-- sub jected to being....-you know, ah, done, or whatever it is done... ‘cause I feel it in somewhere else in the building here. Describe your device as it appears to you now, Um'd.emmm..+-L'm looking at a finished thing here. Describe it to me as it appears. Umm...ah, just a metal skin all the way around,rounded nose. Dimensions. Umm...-about..-three and a half, four feet by about....where am I.eeeseah, oh, eight feet, and then there's this ending that's a been put on it...this bloeks like a, ah, thin apparatus or something that's on the end of it. It's a drag apparatus of some kind. And, I want to say that's about another, UMM...+-. two and a half feet. PAUSE Approved For Release 2000/0 REED Fae P07 88R000400520001-1
Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000400520001-1 #66: ~ #10.5: +39 . ad #66: #10.5: #66: #10.5: — Using cutaway methodology describe the interior. PAUSE Okay. I'm ,.........s0me reason this one, um......ah, um, there it is, okay, um,. In this one there seems to be differences, but the only differences I can tell are like an organization.......in that......this tube just has this.... globe idea, sphere idea, but it seems to be...set back more towards the middle and it doesn't seem to....be in touch with anything right from the nose.....-in. direct touch. It doesn't seem to have...--it's like there are basic differences in the mechanism. Like this one's for a certain type of test, and I'll try this one out, and knowing it's going downstairs it......they're going to, ah, use a different methodology on different design. I'm trying to get a hold of this one enough to. say something about it.cccccccecccececsscsvcveres PAUSE The thing that is missing to me is that very elaborate...ees disk cone, layered disks, and piston thing. That is not.... I'm not pickin’ it up here....-.and the ball is set back farther from the nose than in that other one. And, between the ball and the nose is essentially....what....can't really tell. I'm, ummm, another, I see this hump, this jumble of clutter. I can't really tell what's in the distance. It's like set back an extra two feet..e.. Okay. .Um, you've been. at this quite a while now, so I want you to remember clearly the differences between what you've seen of these two objects, and prepare now to draw those images that you've had. Okay. Okay. Now, during the session here, you seem to go to the assembly building, and you seemed to have stumbled acrossed a device which you've perceived to be different than the one you saw before, and, ah,.....I'd like you to explain, sketch now of this device that you feel is different than the device you saw before, and how you came about this in kind'a your own words. How you came across this in the building. Um, okay. Where I believe I was in the building was in the left hand, what I will refer to as being the left hand, ah, circular portion of the building which is in underground, ~ you know. It's sunken in the ground. The work floor is down about 20 feet below ground level. I went zooming in there, and I saw again an open trough type of area thing raised up waist high. It was essentially empty. This trough was about, Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA- -00788R000400520001-1
Approved For Release a eR meee #66: #10.5: #66: #10.5: #66: #10.5: Approved For Release 2000/08/@7s: ..eat first I thought it was about two and a half feet in diameter or so, but when I got up to it, and started working on it, it seemed like it was more three and a half to four feet in diameter, and about eight feet long. Now, I didn't, you know, ah, the reason we end up with this feeling that this one is different than the one I had worked on in an earlier session or two, the reason we have that feeling is because late in the session when you had me, you know, you asked me, and I said, no, it doesn't seem like it's the same one. You said, go find the other one, and bam very spontaneously I was locking at a completed all finelly tuned, and finelly fabricated bomb on this rack in sketch four. So, that makes me think that what I got into was the....that area is like where they begin to put assembling, assembly parts together. They have to bring the sheet metal in, and the, the skin and they start fitting the pieces to it. And, what we've got is were straddling production of two different weapons. One that's on its way out the door and ready for test, which is the one that I had worked earlier, and then this one which is just coming the door in pieces, and is going to be put together. Okay. I understand. That's the difference in the two. Now, difference in physical structure, I'11l go into as well. Okay. But, before we go into that, let's turn the tape over. I can see that wetre almost out, huh. (ADMIN NOTE: Tape turned over) Okay. Now, at this point then, you had this trough type thing, and felt that it was not yet assembled, and I asked that in your mind you see it assembled, and then tell me what went on. Now, I imagine the result of it, then, is sketch one. Yes. The results of that is sketch one. It's a progressive assembly of the bomb. The major bomb parts. Um. eel'il take sketch one from left to right. The nose, inside the nose of the bomb or a nose cone. of the bomb is this multi-layered cone shape of revolving black metal disks, and these things. revolve in, and revolve against each other. They counter-pose each other I guess and I had this feeling of sandwiching of progressively sitaller sandwiches, as we go towards the front. This thing is somehow connected and, and turns a brass or copper metal, heavy, you know, strong metal rod which is about, oh, I forgot to put that in there. That's about two inches in diameter...+-....«you know, that's about three 296-00788R000400520001-1
Approved For Release 20008 RL CIA-RDP96-00788R000400520001-1 #10.53 Approved For Release 2000/08/0 «seethree and a half, four inches in diameter..... okay. On the end of this rod the opposite end of this rod are four heavy cut metal rectangular fins, that protrude From the rod at ninety degree angles. You know. Perpendicular angles to this axis of the rod, and this end of the rod is located in the sphere. And, when I went in to look at what's on the end of these things, these fins that I was gettin' a feeling for, I ended up in a space, which was about this area of the inside volume of like a volley ball or a basket ball, not even a basket ball. It's too big. A volley ball or a socker ball or something like that. Very, very tight in space, and it's a void. That's all it is inside there. Inside this void is the thin mechanisms on the end of. the rod and there are like four protruding bus bars that stick down into the void, and the fins are off-set in a clockwise direction from these four matching bus bars, and when the, I don't know, when the disks up front make the, make the axle revolve counter-clockwise, which makes the fins revolve counter- clockwise, they only revolve an inch counter-clockwise, and at that point the fins match up with the bus bars. Like this. They go...-you know, they. match up so that they're exact straight lines, and they either contact it or they establish some sort of electrical field or magnetic field or they complete some sort of a circuit. They lock into place, and that's their function. I don't know what happens after that. That's their function. They click together. so that these off-set bus bars are now connected to them, splush(phonetic) face-on-face, uh, and that those bus bars are made of the same type metal. It seemed like they were like bro- brass or bronze, highly polished yellowish, ah, orange-yellowish type, a light orange type of material. No, I'm sorry. A gold type of material. A gold type. Like burnished, ah, brass would be, Okay. Yeah, brass. Like burnish brass would be in color. Okay, now, on these, now these bus, four bus bars stick down inside the void. The thing that actually would be about where the skin of the volley ball is on the void is like these square facings of what are the interior ends of square cone, squared off cone shapes or, ah, flat top pyramids shapes. The Flat top of the pyramid being the flat part that faces the inside of the void that I was looking at inside, and then.... the four sides of the pyramid. gettin' bigger, farther and farther apart as they go farther away from me, and then the base of the pyramid being out somewhere out where the, ah, exterior skin of this goodie is. And, those are all over, you know, I'm inside of a spherical void, and these.....flat metal facings, the flat tops of these metal, of metal type gray metal pyramids faced me all over the compass, okay, 360 degrees, 790 degrees. However you describe the degrees inside a sphere. They were bat O -60788R000400520001-1