Approved For Release 2004/09/09
: CIA-RDP96-00788R002000250020-2
"GRILL
FLAME"
Meeting,
October
1979,
1400
hrs,
Rm
3E
988
Attendees:
Dr.
LaBerge,
Dr.
Ruth
Davis,
LTG
Tighe,
MG
Thompson,
MG Brown
and RADM Shapiro.
Dr.
LaBerge
:
To
be used
as
an
R&D
program rather
than
an
in-
telligence
program.
The
issue
of
the
application
is
bound
to
drive,
more
probably
drive
us
into
difficulties.
I
think we
should
see whether
or
not
things
do
exist
to
the
degree
--
sort
of
taking
it
out
of
the
intelligence
area
and
saying
it
is
an R&D
issue,
collection problem
or
not.
It
has
caused
Murphy
to
consider
the
issue
a
problem
and
he
chose
to
bring
the
issue
up.
I
check with
Bill...
LTG
Ti ghe
One
of
our
problems
is
keeping
track
of
the Russians
The
R&D
thing
is
attractive
if
you
are really
are
trying
to
lead
toward
that
operational
capability.
Now
the
big
question
comes
up
--
can whatever
you
do
survive
and
treat
this
as
a
normal
R&D
program.
It
is my
judgment
that
the Golden Fleece Award,
and
no matter
who
has
it
--
I
think
the
Golden Fleece Award
comes
from people
being
less
than
quiet
in
their
profession.
Dr.
LaBerge
:
I
still
hope we
can keep Rose's
interest.
We
should
try
and keep Proxmire
off
our
backs.
LTG
Tighe:
I
have
a
feeling
that
we
are
going
to
have
a
diffi-
cult
time keeping
anything
quiet
long
enough
to
do
anything.
The Army
process
ought
to
be working
on
intelligence related
matters
anyway —
only
issue
is whether
it
is
intelligence
per
se,
and
I
have
only
come
to
this
conclusion because Dan
seems
to...
One
of
the
greatest
trajedies
of
this
whole
thing
is
the
development
Approved For Release 2004/09/09
: CIA-RDP96-00788R002000250020-2
Approved For Release 2004/09/09
: CIA-RDP96-00788R002000250020-2
of
to
spy without
spying.
Dr
.
Davis
:
The
R&D
aspects
at
the moment
are
what
I would
call
primitive
and
naive —
that
if
it
came
under
R&D
that
it would have
to
be
changed
and many years
before results
could
be
seen.
Work
up until
now has
not
been
dishonest.
Spoke with
Perry
and
he wanted
no
part
of
it
(only
spoke
to
him
for
minutes
or
so)
.
The
only
point
that
I
think
is
showing
up
any-
thing
is
at
the Fort Meade
area where
you
have
a
bunch
of
military
people,
they
are
doing
exactly what
they
are
told.
They
don't
know anything
about
the
great
enthusiasm
and
the
gee
whiz
part
and
they
are
doing
it
on
a
daily
basis.
Intelli-
gence
R&D
is
separate
from R&D.
We
need
the
committee
report
next week.
Dr.
LaBerge
:
I
think
the
important
thing
is
to understand where
the
committee
is
and
then
sit
down
and
decide whether? tier e
is
any
point
in
going
further.
I would
believe
that most
of
us
would
be
on
the
skeptical
side
that
there
is
not
going
to
be
support
to
do more
--
but
at
any
rate
I
would hope
that
the
report
of
the
committee would
pin
down
the
position.
The
distinction
of whether
it
is
intelligence
or
R&D
is
fuzz^
to me
because
all
the work being
done
is
essentially
in response
to
management's
position
of
what
ought
to
be
done — what
is
being
,
results
of
the
done
by
the Army
assets.
When we
get
the/committee report
we
MKXXEXSXXX must
then
sit
down
and
really
figure
out
what must
be
done — who
should
be
the chaperone.
Approved For Release 2004/09/09
: CIA-RDP96-00788R002000250020-2
Approved For Release 2004/09/09
: CIA-RDP96-00788R002000250020-2
think
that
if
there
are
results
--
and
I
am
sure
they will
-
i would
be
surprised
if
they
came
up with
a mori-
torium.
Committee report
is
only
input.
——2_Zi
whom
is
the
report
being
submitted?
—
£S.vis:
Recollect
that
I
was
the
recipient
--
it
was
only
as
a matter
of
convenience.
I would
strongly urge
that
this
not
be
an
intelligence
"policy"
activity
(emphasis
on
policy).
I
think
the worst
thing
that
could
be done
is
put
it
under
the
policy
rather
than
"R&D".
(Dr.
Davis
departed
at
1420)
a Bje r^e
:
Well
I
just
want
to
check
signals with
you.
If
you
could
tell
me where
the
committee
is
at,
Ed.
Do
you
know?
M2—Ihom£££n:
I
don't
think we
know
at
the moment.
2£^_haBer£ej_
Why
don't
we
get
Dan who
is
not
here
today but
down
at
Belvoir
to
give
us
a very
short
course
on what
they
are
coming
in with
and
then
I would
like
to
sit
down
after
everyone
has
seen
the
report,
thought
about
it,
and
then
we
can
talk
about
what
ought
to
be
done.
M2_Thom££onj_
When would
the
committee
like
to
hear
Gayle
(?)
2£^_2aBer£ e:
Will
talk
to
Gayle
(?)
and
set
something
up
in
conjunction with
your
schedules
2!2_Zi£he:
Did
Congressman Rose
tell
you
that
he went
to
the
White
House
and
spoke
to
the
President
about
this
and
the
President
is
still
interested.
M2—
think
that whether
it
is
intelligence
or
R&D
is
primarily
pragmatic
.
<U Um.
'Yn^TVL
VK* C
iff
h'&J:
JL-f
-MvS;
f»
Approved For Release 2004/09/09
: CIA-RDP96-00788R002000250020-2