Everything Has Changed: An Interview With Judy Jordan

Relational-cultural theory (RCT) is an approach to human growth and development in which increased connection and deepened mutuality are hallmarks of mature functioning. In this approach, people's need for connection is primary because the ability to navigate relationships serves as the vehicle for growth. An important task, according to RCT, involves a person's ability to negotiate conflict in relationships, which is often influenced by relational templates or past experiences and one's ideas about oneself and expectations in relationships (Jordan, 2010). In addition, the approach focuses on societal stratifications around aspects of identity and negotiating the intersections of these competing locations of privilege and oppression (Walker, 2004). Studies have supported the efficacy of the model (e.g., Oakley et al., 2013; Tantillo & Sanftner, 2003). Research into neuroplasticity supports the future growth of the approach by focusing on connections and how the reparations of relationships are mapped in the brain via neuropathways (Cozolino, 2006). Judith (Judy) Jordan is one of the original founders of RCT. Along with Jean Baker Miller, Irene Stiver, and Jan Surrey, Judy helped to pioneer the theoretical movement away from an ideal of individuation and separation toward an appreciation of the centrality and power of connection in people's lives. She serves as the director for the Jean Baker Miller Training Institute (JBMTI) at the Wellesley Centers for Women. Along with JBMTI colleagues, she applies RCT to a culture that historically values an ethic of individualism. Thelma Duffey (TD): Hi Judy. Heather and I are so happy to visit with you today and we certainly appreciate the opportunity to talk with you about RCT! Judy Jordan (JJ): Hi, Thelma and Heather! I'm so happy to be here and glad you're doing all the good work you're doing out in the world. TD: Thank you, Judy! As we begin our discussion, can you tell us about RCT's beginnings, more specifically, how it was initially accepted, and would you share some of the feedback you have received from practitioners and scholars on the model s development? JJ: Of course. Initially, our work was virtually ignored by other established theoreticians, academics, and many clinicians. Then, as I think is common for theories that oppose existing prevailing models and power paradigms, we began to hear from those invested in the traditional approaches: "Oh these are dangerous ideas," "You really have to be careful about this," [and] "Don't get on board with this." The final mark of acceptance or success is that people said in a dismissive way, "We knew this all along. This is not new." I should add that was the response from the establishment. There was a different response from many women clinicians. There was a sense of validation accompanied by relief. Having their observations and beliefs about what led to health validated also empowered these clinicians to begin sharing what they knew and practiced in their work with clients. There was no longer the shame of, "I must be doing this wrong because all the books and my supervisors say I should be more neutral, detached, and looking for unconscious conflict and transference." Many very seasoned clinicians felt, "We knew this all along." We gave voice to what they knew. They were grateful that we put words and concepts to practices that were being ignored or criticized. Jean Baker Miller used to say, "If we are representing women's experience, we have to listen to the voices of women." And now these many years later, I would say there has been a widespread assimilation of the core ideas, not only for women, but for men too. Heather Trepal (HT): That is really powerful. Where do you see the theory going now? JJ: In the past 10 years, the whole field of neuroscience, with the irrefutable evidence found in functional MRI (fMRI) data, which documents the primacy of connection, has validated each of RCT's long-held and core concepts, which were developed over 30 years ago. …