Deletion of List of wineries and vineyards in Maine

Comment: as the source of these lists is not provided, and they don't support an notable overarching topic. A better title for these ad hoc lists would be List of ''an indiscriminate selection'' wineries and vineyards by state, region or ''other arbitrary category'', and without a source to attest for its completeness or accuracy, they are little more than original research. Otherwise I concur with the nomination and would recomend deletion on the grounds that these lists are little more than |linkfarms for winery websites
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not (WP:LINKFARM)

Comment: I was one of the 1st to comment on this AfD, but I assumed there was some precedent/guideline/essay that would apply more directly here.  After reading the discussion to date, I see there's not.  Neither  nor  help me that much either.  I find
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Lists (WP:LIST||WP:NOTDIRECTORY)

Comment: as per ThaddeusB, DGG and Hazir. They do follow the guidelines set out in . They are a valuable information source as they group the wineries by region. The lists are notable, even though some of the individual wineries contained within them may not be. They are useful to Wikipedia readers and there's no evidence that they've been inundated with commercial spammers. As suggested by Stefan, it might be useful to add some additional info such as date established, etc
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Lists (WP:LIST)

Comment: Per 
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not (WP:NOTDIRECTORY)

Comment: Can http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_wineries_in_the_Eden_Valley&oldid=324269869 this version of List of wineries in the Eden Valley now be considered to fulfill the information case of ?? If so the other lists should also be able to do that, IF someone would . (as a side question is my edit a copyright violation??) since I obviously used my reference to copy the data from
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Lists (WP:LIST||WP:SOFIXIT)

Comment: I agree with what I think is agnes main point, lets use policies to close this, the problem is that even though I !vote keep I do not really know what the police states. IMHO for AFD of a   does not apply (quote from  ''This page is to help determine whether an organization (commercial or otherwise), or any of its products and services, is a valid subject for '''a Wikipedia article'''.''), it applies for a article about a corporation, not a list of them,  does not apply for AFD since it can be |FIXED, same for link farms. Therefore my missunderstood OTHERSTUFF above, I used it to try to get a answer to how a list is notable and I'm trying to understand the difference between a first round kicked out project runway contestand and a winery in barossa, this discussion so far have not been able to convince me what the difference is, therefore I interpret the policies that lists of e.g. wineries in barossa is valid for articles.  should be improved to clarify this, I agree that there is a conflict between  6 and  but am not sure which is applicable in this case. Maybe this needs to be discussed in a more general place
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Lists (WP:LIST||WP:CORP||WP:CORP||WP:ADVERT||WP:SOFIXIT||WP:LIST||WP:NOTDIRECTORY||WP:LIST)

Comment: The vast majority of wineries in any region are going to be non-notable, these lists are really only |directories, and there isn't a lot of encyclopedic value to have a list containing them all.  We don't (and shouldn't) have a list of Bakeries in Seattle, or Fast Food restaurants in Boston for the same reason - a winery needs to do something more than exist to be notable enough to belong on a wikipedia list. I don't have a problem with red links on a list - they need to be to articles that ought to exist - just no one has written them yet.   For the vast majority of wineries on this list, they simply aren't any more notable than the a local artisan bread maker
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not (WP:NOTDIRECTORY)

Comment: I'm somewhat divided on this one, and since we're sort of trying to establish some sort of WP:WINE policy, I will explain my thinking in some detail. I think it's fairly clear that the majority of the wineries listed in these lists are not notable enough for stand-alone articles. To me, that in itself isn't a completely sufficient reason to delete these lists, but it does seem to rule out two out of three main purposes of lists under : "navigation" and "development". From this point of view, redlinks to non-notable wineries are not really helpful to have, and external links to them is definitely a  which should be removed on sight according to . 5 out of 7 nominated lists have this type of content
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Lists (WP:LIST||WP:LINKFARM||WP:EL)

Comment: After having read  I must say that it is not clear to me what the criteria for a list is! Why are Willowtip Records discography or List of Project Runway contestants (both featured) and both having lots of none wikilinked and therefore probably not notable items on the list acceptable. (''Not trying to invoke  just trying to undertsand what the criteria is and since they are both featured I assume that they are acceptable''). While List of wineries in the Barossa Valley is not? The former are a much better article, sure. But that any of the wine lists are finnished is not a reason to delete just to , the reason must be that the list '''as such''' is not notable, or 'does not serve any encyclopedic purpose' or something. I do not understand why a list of wineries in barossa is any less notable than a list of project runway contestans or a list of records from a recording company. Can anyone point to a place that defines 'notability' for a list? Or a place that defines the criteria for deletion/keep of a list, or explain in more specific terms than '' 'does not serve any encyclopedic purpose ' '' since  and  does not really make this clear to me. Does "'''Lists, whether they are embedded lists or stand-alone lists, are encyclopedic content as are paragraphs and articles, and they are equally subject to Wikipedia's content policies such as Verifiability, No original research, Neutral point of view, and others.'''" from  really mean that all items on a list must be notable for a lits to be notable?? And if so why is Willowtip Records discography or List of Project Runway contestants featured, are we saying that we have feature lists that should be deleted?? I'm confused
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Lists (WP:LIST||WP:OTHERSTUFF||WP:SOFIXIT||WP:STAND||WP:LIST||WP:LIST)

Comment: I never really expected an ''en masse'' "delete" decision for all 8 articles. I decided to put the whole lot up for AfD because I knew no matter which individual list article I could put up, someone would point to the other articles and their sorry shape as a  defense. In talking with other  members, the hope is that the closing admin will look at the individual articles and delete the ones that are the more glaring violations of  and  while providing some rational for how the remaining articles are salvageable according to Wikipedia policies. Unfortunately the majority of the "Keep" comments so far has made little rational defense for how any individual article falls in line with current policies and guidelines and no one has made a policy based defense for keeping the entire lot. As for a rationale for deleting the whole lot-they all fail  and  to some extent but, admittedly, to different degrees of severity. The only discouraging outcome is a 30 second "no consensus" type closing. Whatever the outcome is, as long as there is some tangible policy based rationale giving by the admin for the salvageable articles then  will be able to improve the creation and management of these types of articles on Wikipedia in the future. Appreciate your time
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions (WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS||WP:WINE||WP:LIST||WP:DIRECTORY||WP:NOTDIRECTORY||WP:LIST||WP:WINE)