Deletion of Jews in Carthage

Comment: ping|Redaktor}} The old article was removed entirely, and instead new material with  &  &  have been put in place awaiting wikification and someone who has the time to devote to formatting it. Thanks
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Verifiability (WP:V||WP:RS||WP:N)

Comment: because this is NOT a "hoax" nor is it "OR" by any means, just because it may sound strange does not mean it should be demeaned, as the nominator wrongly assumes. First of all the historical facts (ALL from WP articles): '''1''' The ancient Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy) (1020 BCE–930 BCE) & Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) (930 BCE–720 BCE) were founded and existed from 1020 and 930 BCE until about the 720s BCE '''2''' on the same Mediterranean Sea coast as Carthage, developed from a Phoenician colony of the 1st millennium BC, '''3''' Carthage was founded by Canaanite-speaking Phoenician colonists from Tyre (in modern Lebanon) under the leadership of Dido (Queen of Carthage)|Queen Elissa or Dido, '''4''' into the capital of an ancient empire until the Romans gained the upper hand by invading Africa and defeating Carthage at the Battle of Zama in 202 BC. '''5''' Following the Third Punic War, the city was destroyed by the Romans in 146 BC. '''6''' However, the Romans refounded Carthage, which became the empire's fourth most important city and the second most important city in the Latin West. Thus (from hereon my words): '''7''' It was not about "Jews" but about ISRAELITES (=Jews) that have the connection with Carthage just as they had a connection with all prats of the Mediterranean world and certainly Jews were in all parts of the Roman Empire from its earliest days. '''8''' Thus the nominator has done his homework. He should have Googled things like https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Israelites+and+Carthage Israelites and Carthage to see what comes up, here is one thing from the '''(a)''' Jewish Virtual Library http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0004_0_04010.html: "'''CARTHAGE''', ancient city in North Africa near the modern Tunis; founded in the 9th century B.C.E. by Phoenicians. There is no evidence of Jews in Carthage during the Punic period (before 146 B.C.E.); on the other hand, a number of modern scholars maintain that the expansion of the Phoenicians from Tyre and Sidon owed something of its impetus to the collaboration of Hebrews from the Palestinian hinterland. Substantial Jewish settlement is known only from the time of the Roman Empire. Its existence is shown from inscriptions (mainly on tombstones) and from literary sources, especially those of the Church Fathers. The majority of Jewish inscriptions from Carthage (discovered in a cemetery excavated near the city) show that the language of its Jews was Latin, although a few inscriptions are in Hebrew. The *menorah is common, and some of the tombs are decorated with wall paintings. The city is also mentioned in the Talmud...BIBLIOGRAPHY: Monceaux, in: REJ, 44 (1902), 1–28; N. Slouschz, Hebraeo-Phéniciens et Judéo-Berbères (1908); idem, La civilisation hébraïque et phénicienne à Carthage (1911); Juster, Juifs, 1 (1914), 208, n. 8; G. Rosen, Juden und Phoenizier (19292); Mieses, in: REJ, 92 (1932), 113–35; 93 (1932), 53–72, 135–56; 94 (1933), 73–89; Baron, Social2, 1 (1952), 176, 374; Y. Levi, Olamot Nifgashim (1960), 60–78; M. Simon, Recherches d'histoire judéo-chrétienne (1962), 30–87." '''(b)''' From the Jewish Encyclopedia http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4085-carthage :"'''Jews in Carthage'''. The fact that the Talmud mentions the Carthaginian teachers of the Law, R. Abba, R. Isaac, and R. Ḥana, proves that Jews were living in that city, although Frankel, without reason, takes it to mean an Armenian city ("Mebo," pp. 6b, 66a), and Kohut a Spanish city ("Aruch Completum," vii. 220). It is evident from the introduction to the work "Adversum Judæos," ascribed to Tertullian, that Jews were living in Carthage; and they are found still further west (Schürer, "Gesch." 3d ed., iii. 26, note 64). Münter ("Primordia Eccl. Afric." p. 165, Copenhagen, 1829) mentions a certain R. Jisschak (the one in the Talmud?). The Jews of Africa (see Africa) are often referred to in the correspondence between Jerome and Augustine; and in recent times there has been found in Gamart, near the city of Carthage, a great Jewish necropolis with many inscriptions in Latin (see Catacombs). From the conquest of Carthage by the Vandals (439) to the subjection of the latter by the Byzantines (533), the holy vessels from the Temple of Jerusalem, that had been taken from Rome, were kept in Carthage (Evagrius, "Scholasticus," Fragment iv. p., 17; Procopius, "Bellum. Vand." ii. § 9). The Jews then passed under the rule of Justinian, who instructed Solomon, the governor of Africa, to transform the synagogues as well as the churches of the Arians and the Donatists into orthodox churches (Novellæ, No. 37). Solomon, however, was soon compelled to flee from the rebellious Africans...Bibliography: Movers, Phönicier, ii. part i. 142, 144, 350; Böttger, Lexikon zu den Schriften des Flavius Josephus, p. 79; Neubauer, G. T. p. 411; Krauss, Lehnwörter, ii. 572; Delattre, Gamart ou la Nécropole Juive de Carthage, Lyons, 1895; Rev. Et. Juives, xliv. 2-28." '''(c)''' (from) Google Books http://books.google.com/books?id=UL7CRhPtD5sC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=Jews+and+Carthage&source=bl&ots=24ypoH4FtG&sig=vRDlq49JpJBtameu3kB_K5fvK0Y&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TTkVVPnYKO_gsAScsIL4Ag&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Jews%20and%20Carthage&f=false: "Geoffrey D. Dunn - 2004 - ‎Religion: '''We know there was a Jewish community in Carthage''' from the funerary inscriptions at Gamart, a cemetery a few miles north of Carthage, close to the coast..." '''9''' Talking of Google Books, doing a search on that for http://books.google.com/books?id=UL7CRhPtD5sC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=Jews+and+Carthage&source=bl&ots=24ypoH4FtG&sig=vRDlq49JpJBtameu3kB_K5fvK0Y&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TTkVVPnYKO_gsAScsIL4Ag&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Jews%20and%20Carthage&f=false Israelites and Carthage and https://www.google.com/search?q=Israelites+and+Carthage&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1&gws_rd=ssl#tbm=bks&q=Kingdom+of+Israel+and+Carthage Kingdom of Israel and Carthage yields all sorts of stuff, a lot relating to how some Christian scholars as well look at the topic, too many to mention here. So, '''10''' Bottom line, '''there are plenty of  &  &  that back up the validity of this article''', and hopefully will be added to it, that if anything, prove it's a very important topic that should not make anyone nervous but should rather pique the curiosity of intelligent readers who wish to know more about the ancient world and about Jewish history. Thank you
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:N||WP:RS||WP:V)

Comment: The result was    '''no consensus'''. Of note is that the the article's content has significantly changed compared to its state at the time of the nomination. It's unclear whether or not some of the delete !voters herein (specifically User:Chris troutman and User:Tiptoethrutheminefield) considered the revised article, although it appears that the nominator and User:Zero0000 have done so and remain pro-deletion. (|Non-administrator closure
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Deletion process (WP:NACD)