Deletion of Jews and Communism (2nd nomination)

Comment: with no opposition to a thoughtful, scholarly, careful recreation, probably under a different name. The discovery by Smeat75 that the article originated with the work of a white supremacist Holocaust denier verifies the concerns about the article expressed by many editors including me for months. Thank you for that research. I find the arguments of Binksternet, Coretheapple, Dave Dial, Nishidani, and the nominator, MarkBernstein especially persuasive. I am not fond of citing  but this applies well here, "While you can edit any page to fix the page content, you can't edit the associations and social history of a page". In this case, to quote Coretheapple, this article will always be tainted by the "foul brew" it has been
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over (WP:TNT)

Comment: without salting, in order to |blow it up and start over, as per existing arguments
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over (WP:TNT)

Comment: Per . Having a separate article could mislead readers to believe that Communism is connected to Jewish people which would be incorrect and wrong
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not (WP:NOTCASE)

Comment: Coming from someone who argued last time to keep the article, it's been over a month since the original AfD and it's very clear that no progress can ever take place in order to correct the arguments that were made in the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews and Communism|original AfD. Worse, the article grew into a monster with countless edit wars, countless noticeboard incidents, and endless arguments that did not mature into any realistic agreement. Is it a povfork? No, is it notable? Yes. Can we fix this article? unfortunately that's highly unlikely, maybe  or if smaller more focused topics could survive but in its current state, this article has to go
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over (WP:TNT)

Comment: as 
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Coatrack articles (WP:COATRACK)

Comment: This nomination seems too soon after the previous AFD and DRV and so seems contrary to our |deletion policy, "''It can be Wikipedia:Blocking policy|disruptive to repeatedly nominate a page in the hope of getting a different outcome.''"  The topic just needs to be approached in a dispassionate, neutral and scholarly way.  For example, see the http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TffrTUyCD6QC&pg=PA113#v=onepage&q&f=false article on Communism by Marci Shore in ''The Cambridge Dictionary of Judaism and Jewish Culture''.  This demonstrates that the topic is notable and that it can be written about in an encyclopaedic way.  The rest is then a matter of ordinary editing per our |editing policy.  Note, for comparison, the recent AFD about Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of Jews in Kurdistan|History of Jews in Kurdistan.  That article writes about Jews in a particular context and was snow kept.  Here we have a different context which seems more controversial but, per , the extra heat is insufficient reason to suppress t he topic
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Deletion policy (WP:DELAFD||WP:PRESERVE||WP:CENSOR)

Comment: primarily for reasons of . That is a perfectly sensible policy that clearly should apply here. I voted the first time to delete and none of the changes made to the page warrant changing my vote. I disagreed with the closing editor's decision to declare it no consensus and voted to overturn his decision on review, but the result again was no consensus. The discussion, in my opinion, has shown that at least two thirds or more of the editors commenting on this article believe it should be deleted. Obviously a unanimous vote will never happen. I agree with much of the comments above, particularly in regards to issues with POV Fork, OR, and copyvio. I have yet to see any kind of adequate response to . As the policy very specifically notes, there is no article about "Islam and Terrorism." I fail to see why the same logic should apply, even more strongly, to this article. Quite frankly this episode suggests to me that there are issues with the core policies of the project that I hope are addressed
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Article titles (WP:AND)

Comment: This article is weird, weird, weird. Looking over the https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jews_and_Communism&dir=prev&limit=500&action=history early history of the article makes it look weirder. This article looks like a Wikipedia:Coatrack and quacks like a Coatrack. Without looking at it too deeply I'm going to assume it is a Coatrack. And, for an  argument, I'm pretty sure we'd have trouble finding pages that linked other ethnicities/religions to particular forms of government (e.g. Christianity and Facism). Given that this delete discussion seems to be trending towards 10 to 1 in favor of deletion, might I humbly suggest we |snow this one
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions (WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS||WP:SNOW)

Comment: To avoid  and  problems, this article should be split into several articles on clear-cut topics ("Jews and RSDWP", "Bundism", "Jews and Comintern", "Jews and Soviet secret police", "Jews and American communist movement" etc
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:No original research (WP:SYNTH||WP:COATRACK)

Comment: I am not convinced that the topic of the complex relationship between Jews and Communism is inherently non-notable or inappropriate, largely per DGG (but without the unfortunate analogy to Jews and Music which I believe was misinterpreted as a reference to Wagner's article).  But this article isn't it, and given its history can probably never get there. So even if the topic is appropriate,  applies
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over (WP:TNT)

Comment: Not an encyclopaedic topic and beyond rescue. The topic is not described by the title, which is too broad and breaches the advice in : {{tq|Titles containing "and" are often red flags that the article has neutrality problems or is engaging in original research: avoid the use of "and" in ways that appear biased
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Article titles (WP:AND)

Comment: Essentially this is a  for every Communist Jew of note, a POV nightmare because of its underplaying of the longstanding hostility between Jews/Judaism/Israel and Communists/Communist movements/Communist nations. Putting aside the rationalizations of its defenders concerning the scope of this article, what you have here is this: high school students will be googling "Jews and Communists," coming to this article, and getting this one-sided, incomplete, foul brew of  that in one of its earlier stages was proudly copied over to Metapedia. I don't believe the article has changed in any material way since then, nor do I believe that it is salvageable. Sure, we can retitle and reframe it, we can do the best we can with this trash. But when  you come right down to it, this is just a variation on an odoriferous theme, very much akin to Jews and Hollywood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Controversies_related_to_prevalence_of_Jews_in_leadership_roles_in_Hollywood and Jews and Money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Economic_history_of_the_Jews, which disgraced Wikipedia until they too were deleted
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Coatrack articles (WP:COATRACK||WP:SYNTHESIS)

Comment: per , , , , , , , etc... This is simply a seriously crap "article" for more reasons than I could be bothered to list
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Content forking (WP:POVFORK||WP:ATTACK||WP:COPYVIO||WP:AND||WP:NPOV||WP:SYNTH||WP:FRINGE)

Comment: per |"Blow it up", |"notability" and |"fork".  #REASON|"Reasons for deletion" allows reasons not enumerated such as "Blow it up."  In this case the article was written in a manner that appeared to be anti-Semitic and large portions have in fact been copied to the anti-Semitic Metapedia article on Jewish Communism.  If the article could be justified, it would be best to delete it and start again
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over (WP:TNT||WP:NOTABLE||WP:FORK||WP:DEL)

Comment: This article was made because the creator was told the material he wanted to insert into the Jewish Bolshevism(of which this article is an obvious ) article didn't belong in that article. So, the creator made https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jews_and_Communism&oldid=597423642 this article. Which was copied almost word-for-word and source-by-source into the White Nationalist encyclopedia, Metapedia
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Content forking (WP:POVFORK)

Comment: per  and the solution suggested by
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over (WP:TNT)

Comment: The article started as  violation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jews_and_Communism#A_major_source_for_this_article_is_unquestionably_the_piece_published_by_the_Institute_for_Historical_Review of anti-Semitc source. This article is clearly  of Jewish Bolshevism it was created to justify anti-Semitic conspiracy theory by means of  for example it use sources that have nothing to do with scope of the article
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Copyright violations (WP:COPYVIO||WP:POVFORK||WP:SYNTH)