Deletion of Limuel B. Forgey III

Comment: Falls within the scope of , comments on self promotion are not valid to this discussion —Preceding Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned comment added by
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:GNG)

Comment: The preponderance of single-purpose accounts (all edits are to this discussion or the subject page) who fail to sign their posts and write "Do Not Delete" rather than "Keep" is getting a bit distressing in here.  I'll just leave this here for the general edification:  &mdash
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Sockpuppetry (WP:SOCK)

Comment: probably fails .  Fresno Bee ref would have the strongest chance of contributing to notability, but it appears to be broken and not recoverable via archive.org, and provides no quote to help us understand what it once said.  Other refs, as professional listings, likely cannot be considered independent reliable sources. &mdash
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:GNG)

Comment: This is especially for Special:Contributions/Kprummer|User:Kprummer but it applies generally to this discussion. The notability criteria at Wikipedia have nothing to do with how talented or accomplished the subject is, how well-liked they are in their community, or how well they do their job. Failure to meet those criteria does not imply that the person is  untalented, has no accomplishments, is not well-liked in their community, or doesn't do their job well. Many new editors (especially emerging artists and their families and friends) make the mistake of thinking that the purpose of a Wikipedia article is to raise their profile in their chosen profession. In fact, the purpose of a Wikipedia biographical article is to document someone who has fully "emerged", who has made a significant impact, whose profile is already so high that they have been '''''"the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is Wikipedia:independent sources|independent from the musician or ensemble itself and |reliable."''''' (Criteria 1. for |Notability of musicians and ensembles)The independent sources which have emerged so far are:http://www.marinscope.com/articles/2010/04/14/all/arts_and_entertainment/doc4bc645b67bf8d835982029.txt #1 (review in a  community newspaper with a one sentence mention of the subject)http://fresnobeehive.com/2010/04/notes_from_the_16.html #2 (a two sentence shout-out announcing Forgey's performance in #1 with ticket information in the ''Fresno Bee'' arts blog) http://www.aldrichtan.com/VTD/scarlet.htm #3 (a review of ''The Scarlet Letter'' in a local newspaper, ''Visalia Times Delta'', which mentions Forgey. I had added this when I was referencing the article because it was a completely unreferenced |biography of a living person. For some reason this was removed by a IP editor  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Limuel_B._Forgey_III&action=historysubmit&diff=395758729&oldid=395757927 yesterday) http://fresnobeehive.com/2010/06/notes_from_the_17.html #4 (reprint of a review of ''The Scarlet Letter'' in the ''Fresno Bee'' which mentions Forgey in one three sentences, by the same reporter in #2)http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NZND4amJZQgJ:www.fresnobee.com/2010/08/05/2031290_weekend-of-opera-includes-butterfly.html+%22Limuel+Forgey%22+-wikipedia&cd=50&hl=en&ct=clnk #5 (Note I was able to recover this Google cache of the article publicizing the California Opera performances of ''Madame Butterfly'' and ''La traviata''. It includes a paragraph each on Forgey and one of the other singers)Opinions can vary as to whether this extremely local coverage (and in the case of #1, #2, and #4 also quite trivial) passes Criteria 1. for |Notability of musicians and ensembles. I don't believe it does, which is why one then has to look at the other criteria to see if the subject would pass under one on those. I cannot see evidence of him passing any of them. The ''Scarlet Letter'' DVD is self-published by the composer, not released on a commercial label, and note the review of this performance in #4:"The world-premiere opera, which played for four performances last weekend at the College of the Sequoias theater, had a polish—and a confidence—that you don't always associate with '''amateur''' productions." (my bolding)Note also the quote from #5 re California Opera Association which trains singers http://www.calopera.org/academics.html at various levels, but still is a training organization:Edna Garabedian, the indefatigable artistic director of Cal Opera, has always positioned the company's annual summer festival and institute as a training ground for advanced young singers. Many of them already have extensive vocal educations, but Garabedian is trying to prepare them for the next phase of a career: how to prepare for auditions, what to wear, how to choose roles. Part of being a marketable singer is the ability to sing one leading role on one night—and turn around and sing another one just a couple of days later. That's why Garabedian has programmed two major works for the last weekend of the festival: "La Traviata" tonight; and "Madama Butterfly" on Sunday, both at the Mercedes Edwards Theatre in Clovis. Nearly all the institute's singers are in both fully staged productions. This is the first year the festival has two big titles performing in one weekend. Why wait till this year? Simple. Because she thinks her singers can, Garabedian says. "I felt they were capable of doing this," she says. "'''If they're going to be''' successful professionals, it's going to be something they have to do. (my bolding)Incidentally, Golden Gate Opera http://www.goldengateopera.org/eventspast.html explicitly describes their ''Madame Butterly'' performance as "Golden Gate Opera's Emerging Artist Program" and uses virtually the same cast (and director) as the California Opera Association one. An "emerging" opera artist is not synonymous with "young" artist, "untrained" artist, or "amateur" artist. It means that the artist has not yet achieved a significant career at the highest professional level, singing many leading roles with fully professional companies which perform operas with a full orchestra and chorus and a completely professional cast. I know this response is very long, but I want the new editors participating here to understand a bit more about this process, what the criteria are, what a "delete" opinion means, and that it is not taken lightly. If it helps, here are some AfDs for opera singers which closed as "keep" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Marco_Lazzara, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Diletta_Rizzo_Marin, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sylvia_O%27Brien_(soprano), and some which closed as "delete" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Daniel_Hambly, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Kazuhiro_Ito, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Camelia_Voin
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Verifiability (WP:SOURCES||WP:MUSICBIO||WP:BLP||WP:MUSICBIO)