Deletion of Holly Neher (2nd nomination)

Comment: to List of female American football players#High school per the editing policy : "Instead of removing content from an article, consider ... Merging the entire article into another article with the original article turned into a redirect as described at performing a merge." I also have no problem if this is kept; the notability guideline  is met, specifically "we can actually write a whole article, rather than half a paragraph or a definition of that topic."  There's enough non-routine coverage about the person, not just the events, that discuss her childhood and the influence of her mom's battle with cancer. BLP1E arguments are unconvincing, especially those combining multiple events (each of which received signifiant, non-routine coverage) to one season.  PRESERVE at a minimum
Stance: merge
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Editing policy (WP:PRESERVE||WP:WHYN)

Comment: from memory, this has not changed a lot since the last time except that the puffery and |ref bombardment have become more grotesque
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Citation overkill (WP:BOMBARD)

Comment: Why does it matter that her notablility it is for 'one event'? Guy Goma is known for only one event please bear in mind the third paragraph of  rather than just linking to it. There are 25 references including NPR, USA Today, Miami Herald and ABC News. She is notable by default
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions (WP:OSE)

Comment: again. Still a high school athlete who is recognized for |one event. All the coverage on her is |routine and we seem to forget |Wikipedia is not a newspaper
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons (WP:BLP||WP:ROUTINE||WP:NOTNEWS)

Comment: The problem here is the "prolonged" coverage prong of .  Unlike most SNGs, this one is an "exclusionary" standard intended to avoid opening the floodgates to thousands upon thousands of articles about high school athletes, a danger about which we need to be wary. On the other hand, the spirit of NHSPHSATH is to ensure that we limit high school athlete articles to truly exceptional cases.  Here, even though the Neher story hasn't been around for long enough to qualify as having received "prolonged" coverage, it is an exceptional case that has garnered international, substantial, and non-routine coverage.  Moreover, it involves a female athlete, a subject on which Wikipedia has had a significant problem of under-representation.  For these latter reasons, and assuming the closure is done so as to avoid the floodgates problem, I would not be troubled were the article to be kept. —&nbsp;Preceding Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned comment added by
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:NHSPHSATH)

Comment: still). ''Still'' falls foul of BLP1E and fails GNG requirements. There is no 'substantial and prolonged coverage' (a month just isn't "prolonged" coverage); this is, at best  for a student to pass as encyclopaedic content
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Too soon (WP:TOOSOON)

Comment: the article is egregiously bad and largely written to survive the AfD process rather than to be part of an encyclopedia.   is irrelevant,  is the relevant standard
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:NHSPHSATH||WP:GNG)

Comment: There are enough sources to pass . All other criteria are therefore irrelevant, we go by notability here
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:GNG)

Comment: references indicate  met. "Currently though, even the coverage in major papers is relatively routine for high school athletes" - International news coverage is not relatively routine for high school football players
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:GNG)

Comment: clearly passes  with global coverage in significant independent third party sources over an extended period of time.   does not apply because there is much more than "one" event, and  is not a policy or guideline.  does not apply because the significant coverage already exists for events in the past.  Multiple full-length feature articles in reliable sources like USA Today, Business Insider, and others clearly are .  The requirements in  are exceeded because notability is not derived from school papers or local coverage.  And the claim that Wikipedia has deleted high school athletes with "better sourcing" cannot be taken seriously in this AFD because we are not talking about other sources and since the claim has no reference, we cannot evaluate those cases to see how they might apply here.  Did I miss any
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:GNG||WP:BLP1E||WP:BLP2E||WP:TOOSOON||WP:NOTROUTINE||WP:NHSPHSATH)

Comment: Leaning toward changing my !vote to Keep''' due to the clear and pertinent agruement put fo forth by {{U|Smartyllama}} that  has been met, and that all else is irrelevant
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:GNG)

Comment: per nom, High school athlete. Too trivial for encyclopaedia. Not everything that is in the papers deserves an article in Wikipedia. There is a reason we have . First female (maybe!) to throw a touchdown in a high school game in the state of Florida? Is that the claim to notability? Are we going to have 50 such articles? And then 50 for each other level of the game? And the same again for first females to kick field goals?. Or is it the "first female to start at quarterback in Broward County"? So we can expect another 3006 of these?. And another 3007 for females starting at Center? And then do we have one for every first transsexual in every county?, every first gay?...,    Coverage  is fairly standard hype for sports coverage at this level.     Her 15 minutes of fame is already covered at List of female American football players#High school. WP:TOOSOON If she goes on and does something truly notable in her football careeer then it is time for a stand alone article, but throwing a touchdown pass in a high school game is not particularly notable. Club
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:NHSPHSATH)

Comment: to List_of_female_American_football_players#High_school.  There are long-standing ''exclusionary'' standards regarding  coverage of high-school athletes; if anyone objects to those they should start a discussion at  or .  Of course, due to her gender, Neher isn't entirely .  However, the claims of notability appear to be largely puffery; she's neither the first female high-school quarterback nor the first female football player in Florida, merely the "first female high-school quarterback to throw a touchdown in Florida" or something.  In this type of situation, contemporaneous newspaper coverage isn't a |secondary source, but a primary source.  There is a perfectly-reasonable redirect target for -compliant coverage of whatever she does that is actually notable, so redirect
Stance: merge
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Run-of-the-mill (WP:MILL||WP:NSPORT||WP:VPP||WP:MILL||WP:SECONDARY||WP:UNDUE)

Comment: and merge: As outlined at , for a subject to become a stand-alone article it has three hurdles to pass: (i) it passes our definition of notability – passes  and isn't excluded by OT; (ii) it isn't a BLP1E which would be more appropriately covered within a broader article; (iii) editors agree that the topic should have a stand-alone article. In this case, all the conditions for  apply: all of the coverage is about Neher's nascent career in gridiron; there is no indication that Neher is likely to receive coverage beyond that narrow reach; and {iii} a female playing gridiron may be a novelty, but that doesn't make it significant. On balance, although a BLP of Neher is conceivable, we would be better to discuss her achievement in the context of List of female American football players as proposed by {{u|Betty Logan}}, particularly as the List of female American football players #High school|High School section notes "more than 1,900 girls who played high school football in 2016
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:N||WP:GNG||WP:NOT||WP:BLP1E)

Comment: I won't say too much as most of it has been said above already. But suffice it to say this is very much a case of 
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons (WP:BLP1E)

Comment: to List of female American football players#High school, and build a good entry there, per #NEWS and ; I don't by the "BLP1E doesn't really apply" handwaving. The analyses I see above of why it does apply are more convincing, the material is terrible, and this does have more of the character of event coverage than biography.  Should this person become more notable later, I have no prejudice against a full article, but this is not the first female American football player, so there isn't even an incidental historicity claim to make here
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not (WP:NOT||WP:BLP1E)

Comment: nbsp; The explanatory supplement to the WP:Deletion policy, erge and delete, states in oldid=762419377
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Mediation (WP:M)

Comment: WP:BLP1E does not apply because it requires three conditions and these are not satisfied.   does apply because we have lots of sources.  Articles about sports people have a low threshold for inclusion -- see Chitty (cricketer) -- and this subject looks well-covered by comparison
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:GNG)

Comment: The standard in  is that the coverage "goes beyond routine". Following the link to , we see that it refers to sports scores and the usual coverage that we would expect to see for individual games. Clearly, separate profiles of the subject as a groundbreaking athlete in international news media are not the sort of thing described there, so clearly the coverage does go beyond routine. And the claim that this is a single event would only be valid if we took it to the logical conclusion, that the event rather than the person is what is notable and that we should have an article on the event in place of the one we have now. But in this instance any such article (about the event of someone becoming the first female starting high school QB) would be indistinguishable from the actual article that we have. As for the discussion above, too much of it seems to follow reasoning like "female high school athletes can't possibly be notable, so this one can't be notable, so how can we possibly twist the notability guidelines to make them say she's not notable?" We should be evaluating whether she meets the guidelines neutrally, not coming into this with our own prejudices about what sorts of subjects should and shouldn't be notable. If we don't want to include articles like this one, but the guidelines say we should have them, then figure out what's wrong with the guidelines and propose changing them in the proper venue; in the meantime, we should follow what they say
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:NHSPHSATH||WP:ROUTINE)

Comment: Per the guideline : {{tq|Notability is not temporary; once a topic has been the subject of "significant coverage" in accordance with the general notability guideline, it does not need to have ongoing coverage.}}  However, many delete !votes are asking for "prolonged" coverage of months or even years
Stance: comment
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Notability (WP:NOTTEMPORARY)

Comment: congratz to the young lady for being the first female HS student to throw a touchdown pass in a HS game in the state of Florida, possibly, maybe, we don't know. One of our core policies is |verifiability. For the encyclopaedia this means that the information in the encyclopaedia comes from a realiable source. In the real world, https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/verifiable and the Oxford dictionary, this means that something is {{tq|able to be checked or demonstrated to be true, accurate, or justified}}. In this case, we know that this is not possible. Instead we present the idea that it ''might be'' true. More importantly, we largely base her notability on this unverifiable claim - Special:Diff/798536738|actually we base her notability wholly on that claim because that act alone is why we have an article on her. This article expands her notability by claiming, cited, but, once again unverifiably, that she ''might be'' the first starting female quaterback in Florida or even U.S. history. Indeed, reading this article, I can tell that it's been |peacocked to try and assert notability; {{tq|Neher's accomplishments put her on the national stage and are held out as majors step toward involvement of female athletes and coaches in the sport of American football as well as an inspiration to female athletes everywhere}}. We are an encyclopaedia, not Sunrise (TV show)|Sunrise, stick to the facts. Now, I did note above the mentions that there is some coverage of her prior to this possible achievement. Yes, I read that, it was the very definition of |notnews. The fact that we need to write into the article that Guam and Australia caught wind of all this is also |indiscriminately collected trivia. So what I'm left with in this article is notability based on unverified claims that are supported by peacockery and trivia. That really just leaves me with the |one-event argument to tackle. Fascinatingly enough, I can't support the assertion that this BLP fits BLP1E's three conditions. 1) {{tq|If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event}}. She received coverage, notnews coverage but still, prior to the event. So that can't be in the context of one-event. The post event coverage, however, both can and is. 2) {{tq|If that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual}}. She's not low-profile right now, but, in a year's time? Probably until college assuming she goes into college football. Lastly, {{tq|If the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented}}. To the entire article I ask, and the significance of this is? no, no, no, not what the significance of it is if it's true, what the significance is regardless of it being or not being true. If the two notability granting claims are false, then what significance does this have? I'm left with none. So, because the claims to notability are impossible to verify, because her prior coverage falls straight under not news, because this article is peacocking in the hopes of asserting notability, and because a significant portion of the article is trivia, I have to support deletion. Note: the last two just support the position to delete, they are not reasons to delete in themselves. In a few years time, assuming she keeps this up, she will be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, notable. As it stands today, she isn't. Not to mention that she comes nowhere near meeting |notability for sports; {{tq|have appeared in at least one regular season or post season game in any one of the following professional leagues}} - highschool football is not one of those listed
Stance: delete
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Verifiability (WP:V||WP:PEACOCK||WP:NOTNEWS||WP:INDISCRIMINATE||WP:BLP1E||WP:NGRIDIRON)

Comment: There is no reasonable argument that she doesn't meet WP:N, so the question is does she overcome .  Given that the sources started quite early on (August 23rd saw significant coverage in the Miami Herald that was reprinted as far away as in Pennsylvania) before she started playing and has coverage in the http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2733253-this-52-female-quarterback-is-making-high-school-football-history Bleacher Report after doing well, I'm not clear what the claimed "one event" would be.   Throwing a touchdown can't be it, because there was a lot of coverage before that.  I don't think "being a girl playing football" is an event
Stance: keep
Cited policy: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons (WP:BLP1E)