We do lose people to startups, but we lose them to Nortel and Cisco and we hire them from Nortel and Cisco and we hire from Alcatel and we lose them to Alcatel, so it's an ever-shifting ground. There's no question that because of this tight market, it has led to more and more interesting, innovative programs to get people here and to keep them. There is a musical chairs going on. There is going to be attrition. We're in that industry.
People move around.
Granted, their turnover rate is about 15 per cent, which rises depending on what else is going on in the region's economy. But they do have the staying power that no startup can ever guarantee, they say. Having a history means each has been around long enough to generate a substantial database of employees who have come and gone over the years. As Ms. Gionet says, the talent leaves but they will be welcomed home with open arms once they've spread their wings at high-tech startups. Mr. McIntyre notes that up to about five years ago, any employee who left was treated almost as a traitor.