For instance, Cardiff is a successful city. I hope that people there realise that much of its wealth comes from the massive public expenditure on its economy. As a result, there are public servants, who get paid reasonably well, and professional firms of solicitors, accountants and management consultants who feed off it. I do not know how much actual wealth creation has occurred, and that is what is important if we are to lift the economy. My right hon.
Friend makes some fair points.
Cardiff's productivity decreased considerably when the steel works closed and it experienced the problems that many other constituencies are experiencing now. However, there is another side to the argument. A capital city often gives people their first impression of a country. We have a mutual interest in the success of Cardiff and Llanelli. However, the gap is even wider in Ireland where there is a fear that, within the next 20 years, half the population of southern Ireland will live in Dublin or its suburbs.