And I have a bachelors in civil engineering from North Carolina State University. I have a masters in regional planning from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, which is another story. Also, I have a masters in civil engineering, again, from North Carolina State University. But that's sort of my academic background. I had a lot of training subsequent to that in management at Harvard, and at the University of Pennsylvania.
Civil engineering is difficult.
Designing an airport, or designing a highway bridge, or developing water systems that you drink. Or sanitary systems. So it's all very complex, but it was a lot of fun. And under no circumstance would I think any part of it is easy, but I would say it was difficult but fun. Well, I think co-ops and internships are great, but during my time you've got to realize that the country was in war.