Visa on the one hand, and MasterCard on the other hand. There are now 6,000 banks, which are members of both, which own both, and which govern both. They'd like to end up with a situation where perhaps two or three thousand are in one association, two or three thousand are in another association. Of course, it would help consumers. It would also allow American Express and Discover to sell their products in those banks.
Banks are supermarkets for financial products.
If American Express and Discover and JCB and any other new entrant could have access to those banks, they don't want to ride on MasterCard's tracks or Visa's tracks. Mr. Arquit, a quick response. The fact is if you eliminate this trade-off that exists now because one bank can play off one association against the other, consumers are harmed. Now, MasterCard goes in and says we have a great new fraud feature. The member, the bank, is able to go over to Visa and say, you'd better come up with something better, or we're going to MasterCard, competition banging head on head with each other.