But I can only repeat that if a mandatory scheme is not seen as viable, we still see that there are benefits in a voluntary scheme. We have seen in recent years that criminals using mobile phones take them out on the PAYE principle rather than on the official rental, so that they will not be subject to that first stage in the process of being recorded anywhere. That they will be foolish to hand over their key to a trusted third person when they have already that kind of mentality that they are side-stepping the system. If your description were accurate, Chairman, we would not be getting any benefit from the interception of telecommunications. I can assure you we are getting benefit and Mr Kellaway has given examples of where we get benefit.
Criminals are lazy, greedy and make mistakes.
We are able to capitalise upon those. We anticipate that a licensing scheme will still enable us to have some successes. I repeat, if I may, without boring the Committee, that we see a mandatory system as a preferable system from a law enforcement perspective.