Document ID: EPA-R09-OAR-2009-0438-0018
Agency: epa
Document Type: Supporting & Related Material
Title: 
Posted Date: 2009-10-13T04:00Z

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        4                     AVENAL ENERGY PROJECT

        5                         PUBLIC MEETING

        6                   THURSDAY, OCTOBER 1, 2009

        7                    7:00 P.M. TO 10:00 P.M.

        8                           ---oOo---

        9

       10

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       12

       13                    AVENAL ELEMENTARY SCHOOL

       14                       AVENAL, CALIFORNIA

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             REPORTED BY:                               CHERI FIKE
       24                                               CSR NO. 6200

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        1                     A P P E A R A N C E S

        2

        3    HEARING OFFICER:

        4             STEVEN L. JAWGIEL, Assistant Regional Counsel

        5

        6    EPA PERMITS OFFICER:

        7             GERARDO RIOS

        8

        9

       10    AUDIENCE SPEAKERS:

       11             HARLIN CASIDA

       12             NICK IVANS

       13             CHERYL TUTTLE

       14             RORY COX

       15             JOHN HONNETTE

       16             CHERYL TAYLOR

       17             JIM JEPSEN

       18             JOHN LEHN

       19             DONNA ELLIOTT

       20             ROBERT MULLEN

       21             MELISSA WHITTEN

       22             JOHN HONNETTE

       23

       24

       25

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        1              THURSDAY, OCTOBER 1, 2009, 7:00 P.M.

        2                           ---oOo---

        3             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Good evening, ladies and

        4    gentlemen.  If I could have everyone take their seats.

        5    We'd like to begin with this hearing.

        6             Welcome and good evening.  My name is Steven

        7    Jawgiel.  I am the Public Hearing Officer from EPA

        8    Region 9 in San Francisco, California.  I will be

        9    serving as the presiding officer for this -- this

       10    hearing tonight.

       11             With me is Gerardo Rios.  Mr. Rios is the

       12    Chief of EPA Region 9's Air Permits Program.  Mr. Rios

       13    will be introducing all the rest of his team later on

       14    this evening and giving a brief presentation,

       15    informational presentation after my opening statement.

       16             The purpose of this hearing is to receive your

       17    comments regarding the Draft Prevention of Significant

       18    Deterioration, also known as the PSD Permit, for the

       19    Avenal Energy Project to be located in the City of

       20    Avenal.  EPA will consider all of your comments, both

       21    oral and written, before making any final permit

       22    decision.  Because EPA will not make a decision on the

       23    proposed permit until it considers all of your comments

       24    related to the draft permit, EPA will not be providing

       25    responses to your comments during this hearing.  And I

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        1    should stress that because I oftentimes find people

        2    that come to these hearings have a misconception that

        3    they'll receive an immediate response at this hearing

        4    tonight.  The purpose of this hearing is for us to take

        5    in the information, your information will be assessed,

        6    and a formal response will be provided at a later date.

        7             After serving as the presiding officer of

        8    today's public hearing, I should also note that I will

        9    not be involved in assessing your comments or providing

       10    a response to your comments, nor will I be involved in

       11    any permitting decisions.  My sole role is to act as a

       12    facilitator of this hearing to make sure that everyone

       13    that is here has an equal opportunity to voice their

       14    comments on the record.

       15             Before I begin accepting your comments, I'd

       16    like to take a moment to describe the procedures for

       17    today's hearing.  To begin with, the ground rules.

       18    This hearing is a formal legal proceeding.  Public

       19    notice of this hearing was made by publication in

       20    English and in Spanish in the Fresno Bee, the Avenal

       21    Chimes and in the Vida en el Valle.  Public notice was

       22    also posted on EPA's website.

       23             As you can see, to my right there is a

       24    Certified Court Reporter transcribing a verbatim record

       25    of this hearing.  The Court Reporter will be

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        1    accompanied by -- is accompanied by a Spanish

        2    translator.  As such, feel free to make your comments

        3    on the official record in Spanish or English.

        4             If you present oral comments at today's

        5    hearing, please speak clearly and slowly so that the

        6    Court Reporter and the translator will transcribe your

        7    comments accurately.

        8             I also ask you to refrain from interrupting

        9    other speakers or asking questions during other's

       10    presentations.  Again, for the sake of the Court

       11    Reporter, I know it's difficult enough to track one

       12    voice at a time, yet multiple voices.  So we want to

       13    make sure that we get accurate comments from everyone,

       14    and if we speak one at a time, it will be much easier

       15    to get an accurate record.

       16             There are none here right now, but should

       17    anyone arrive with any banners or posters, I'll ask

       18    people to place those to the rear of the room, for no

       19    other reason than to make sure that no one's sight of

       20    this hearing or the presentation that will be given is

       21    obstructed.

       22             As you can see, there's a registration table

       23    in the back.  You do not need to register at this

       24    hearing.  However, if you would like to receive a

       25    personal copy of EPA's written response of your oral

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        1    comments today, I ask that you do fill out a speaker

        2    request form, a little speaker request form that's at

        3    the back of the room, with your name and address so

        4    that we can send you a copy of a response to your

        5    comment.

        6             I ask that you write your name legibly on the

        7    card because the Court Reporter will be relying on the

        8    spelling of your names as I give the cards to her after

        9    I call your name out.

       10             If you do not wish to identify yourself

       11    tonight, you also do not have to state your name or

       12    provide the EPA with any type of personal information

       13    to present a comment tonight.  However, I just want to

       14    make sure that everyone understands should you decide

       15    to provide a comment tonight without identifying

       16    yourself, you should not expect to receive a formal

       17    written response from the EPA.

       18             If you wish -- if you don't wish to speak

       19    tonight, you also can submit a written statement for

       20    the official record.  Written -- written comments and

       21    oral comments will receive equal consideration by the

       22    EPA in making the final permit decision.  If you would

       23    like to submit a written comment while you are here

       24    today, please feel free to put your written comment

       25    into the -- I believe there's a comment box in the back

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        1    of the room, and you can see Kate's holding up a

        2    comment form that you can fill out and submit.

        3             I'd also like to mention that sometimes I'm

        4    going to -- as I go through the rules, kind of the

        5    proceeding guidelines here, I'm going to tell you that

        6    you're going to have about five minutes to present a

        7    comment.  Since we don't have that many people here

        8    tonight, what I will likely do is run through the list

        9    of people first, give people five minutes to speak, and

       10    then if people would like to make additional oral

       11    comments after that, I'll recall out your name and give

       12    you an opportunity to continue speaking.

       13             The other option will be after you're done

       14    with your five-minute comment, if you feel like you

       15    would prefer to add something in a written comment, you

       16    may do both.  You may do your oral comment, and if you

       17    feel like you want to also submit a written comment, I

       18    encourage you to do so.

       19             If you submit written comments, it is not

       20    necessary to give an oral comment as well.  If

       21    submitted by U.S. mail, written comments must be

       22    postmarked on or about October 15th, 2009.  Comments

       23    submitted by email may be sent to R9airpermits, that's

       24    all one word, R9airpermits at EPA dot gov, and must be

       25    submitted also by October 15th, 2009.

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        1             EPA's notice of final decision on the permit,

        2    along with the response to the comments, will be sent

        3    to each person who has submitted written comments or

        4    who has signed up at the registration table to receive

        5    notice and provided an email address or postal address.

        6    This information will also be made available on EPA's

        7    website.  So, again, if you do not wish to identify

        8    yourself, the response to the comments taken at this

        9    hearing will ultimately be posted on EPA's website for

       10    the general public to view.

       11             In order to give everyone who wishes to speak

       12    at this hearing a chance to do so, we have provided a

       13    microphone, which will be used for your convenience.  I

       14    ask everyone who speaks to make your oral comments

       15    brief, since the schedule is -- well, it seems silly

       16    now, but we're scheduled for three hours here until

       17    10:00 o'clock.  Again, given the number of people here,

       18    I think we're going to have plenty of time.

       19             Each speaker will be limited -- limited to

       20    five minutes initially, and as I said before, if we

       21    have additional time, I will call people's names out

       22    again.

       23             To my left here is Carol Bohnenkamp, and Carol

       24    is going to assist us with being the timekeeper

       25    tonight.  And what she's going to do is once you begin

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        1    giving your oral comment, once you get four minutes

        2    into your comment, Carol is going to raise the sign

        3    that just kind of gives you a guideline that you have

        4    one minute left, and then when the five minutes are up,

        5    Carol will raise the sign that says time is up.

        6             You will also notice that she'll -- as she

        7    raises the sign, she's going to be kind of whispering

        8    something, and all she's saying is since I can't see

        9    the card, she's going to let me know when we're at the

       10    four-minute point, and she will also let me know when

       11    we're at the one-minute point.  I just wanted to make

       12    sure no one thought she was making other -- other

       13    comments.

       14             I also want to mention, because this has come

       15    up before, we use the signs as a guideline to assist

       16    people so they can gauge where they are in their oral

       17    comment.  It is in no way meant to be a distraction for

       18    people giving comments.  I know I've personally

       19    received some -- some statements about that in the

       20    past, but we haven't figured out a better way to notify

       21    people where they are with regards to the time

       22    limitation.

       23             And let's see here, I've already mentioned

       24    that if we have additional time, you'll have another

       25    opportunity to speak.  And with that -- oh, I should

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        1    also mention too, we have some refreshments, water and

        2    some food in the back.  Please help yourself.

        3             There are restrooms to the right.  You'll see

        4    there's a sign here.  Probably most of you are probably

        5    much more familiar with this building than we are, but

        6    if you walk out of these doors here and outside to your

        7    right, you'll enter another door, you'll see signs

        8    pointing you to the restrooms.  And there's restrooms

        9    straight -- straight back down this corridor over here.

       10             With that, I'd like to turn this hearing over

       11    to Gerardo Rios for a brief informational presentation.

       12             MR. RIOS:  Thanks, Steve.

       13             Hi, my name is Gerardo Rios.  I manage the Air

       14    Permits Office at EPA.  Before I get started I think

       15    Steve was saying that I should introduce the rest of

       16    the EPA team that's here.

       17             Leslie Ramirez, she's right here, she helped

       18    us coordinate and set up the public workshop and the

       19    public hearing.

       20             Carol Bohnenkamp is actually our metrologist

       21    so she has -- for this project she has helped do a lot

       22    of modeling or review a lot of modeling for the

       23    project.

       24             Shirley Rivera, she's the engineer that's

       25    writing and reviewing the permit.

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        1             Katherine Hoag, she is assisting Shirley in

        2    the development of the permit.

        3             And in the back we have Irma Miranda who works

        4    in the Permits Office as well.  Debbie Lowe who works

        5    in the Environmental Justice Office.  And then we have

        6    Julie Walters, who works for our regional counsel.

        7             We have -- give me a second here.

        8             MS. SULLIVAN:  Margo Perez Sullivan for the

        9    Press Office.

       10             MR. RIOS:  Margo Perez Sullivan for the press,

       11    and Cheryl Nelson with the Waste Division.

       12             So let me get started for a moment here.  So I

       13    wanted to let you know, again reiterating, why we are

       14    here.  And the reason -- the main reason why we are

       15    here is to hear your comments on this project and on

       16    the proposed air permit that we have right now for

       17    public comment.

       18             What I'm going to do is to briefly present to

       19    you the PSD permitting process, and I'll explain what

       20    that is, the proposed project and how we process these

       21    permit applications from the EPA.

       22             Who -- you may be wondering, like, who -- who

       23    is EPA and what are we, et cetera?  So EPA, aside from

       24    having an office in Washington, D.C., we're actually

       25    divided into ten regional offices.  We're in Region 9,

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        1    as you can see that's on the left, and we basically

        2    oversee all the activities in California, Nevada,

        3    Arizona, and Hawaii.

        4             The Avenal Energy Project is a 600 megawatt

        5    electric power plant, and it's proposed to be located

        6    approximately two miles east of Highway 5.  And as

        7    you've already seen in the Public Notice, the facility

        8    is going to be located here in Kings County.  And the

        9    San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District has

       10    jurisdiction as well over the permitting of the

       11    facility.

       12             The primary equipment proposed for this

       13    project are basically two gas fire turbines, a steam

       14    turbine, both sets of equipment to generate

       15    electricity, and some backup equipment, which is also

       16    gas fire, except for a fire water pump, which is diesel

       17    fire.

       18             Here we are trying to show you, and there's a

       19    map in the back, of the general area and actually the

       20    location of the proposed project.

       21             Next slide.

       22             So, the proposed emissions that we are in the

       23    process of permitting are for carbon monoxide, nitrogen

       24    dioxide and particulate matter, and there's two types

       25    of particulate matter which is larger than ten

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        1    micrometers in diameter and particulate matter ten

        2    micrometers in diameter or smaller.  And the emissions

        3    for this are -- for nitrogen dioxide is 602 tons per

        4    year -- I mean for carbon monoxide is 602 tons per

        5    year, for nitrogen dioxide is 144.3 tons per year, and

        6    for particulate matter about 80 tons per year.

        7             In terms of what the air permitting program

        8    is, there are several permitting processes that can

        9    take place.  The first one is the one that we're

       10    discussing today, which is called Prevention of

       11    Significant Deterioration.  This is a permit that must

       12    be obtained prior for a facility to actually commence

       13    construction.  And in order for this permit to be

       14    issued, the facility must demonstrate that it complies

       15    with all the requirements of the permitting program,

       16    which I'll go into in a little more detail in a moment.

       17             Then there's the -- what we call the New

       18    Source Review or non-attainment New Source Review

       19    permitting program.  The San Joaquin Valley Air

       20    Pollution Control District is in charge of that part of

       21    the permitting program.  And that permit is for the

       22    pollutants for which the area is violating the National

       23    Ambient Air Quality Standards.  In this case the San

       24    Joaquin Valley is violating the standard for ozone,

       25    which means they need to control emissions for volatile

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        1    organic compounds and the emissions of Nox as well, as

        2    an example.

        3             In addition, there's what we call a Title V

        4    Permit or an Operating Permit.  So assuming this

        5    facility is actually constructed, it would have to

        6    obtain an Operating Permit from the San Joaquin Valley

        7    Air Pollution Control District.  And it would contain

        8    all the requirements that are in the permit that we

        9    issue, the permit that the local district issues, as

       10    well as any additional requirements that the facility

       11    may be subject to under the Clean Air Act.

       12             So going back to what is PSD, or Prevention of

       13    Significant Deterioration in the permit program.  As I

       14    mentioned, the permit -- this is a permit that's

       15    required prior to the facility actually being allowed

       16    to commence construction, so they cannot pour concrete

       17    or start erecting any of the equipment that would be

       18    used to produce electricity.

       19             The program requires that the facility

       20    actually construct, if it does construct, with the best

       21    available control technology, so it would have to

       22    install the state-of-the-art control technology in

       23    order to reduce or prevent the emissions of air

       24    pollution as much as possible.

       25             The program also requires analysis of impacts

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        1    on air quality in the general area, as well as impacts

        2    on visibility, on growth, soils, and vegetation and

        3    impacts on national parks and national forests.  And

        4    finally, the program prohibits the construction of a

        5    source that would cause a violation of the National

        6    Ambient Air Quality Standard.

        7             So in the analysis that we have done, we

        8    basically look to make sure that none of the National

        9    Ambient Air Quality Standards for which we are

       10    permitting the facility were violated.  If it did, then

       11    we wouldn't even propose the permit.

       12             Next slide.

       13             So generally the administrative process is

       14    outlined for you in this diagram.  If we start on your

       15    left bottom corner, you can see we basically have an

       16    application -- a pre-application meeting with whoever

       17    wants to construct a facility that would emit air

       18    pollution.  This usually happens six months to a year

       19    before, sometimes a little sooner than before they

       20    actually submit an application to EPA so that they

       21    understand what kinds of control technologies they

       22    would have to consider in their application and what

       23    kind of -- excuse me -- what kind of additional

       24    information they need to submit in their application,

       25    like the impact analysis and other analyses that they

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        1    might have to conduct.

        2             Next up there is once they do submit their

        3    application and we deem the application complete, EPA

        4    conducts a technical analysis.  So we will look at all

        5    their information they submitted and determine whether

        6    we need more information and then do an analysis of the

        7    actual impacts on the area based on the information

        8    that was submitted to us.  And if after our analysis we

        9    determine that the facility as proposed to us would

       10    meet all the requirements of the PSD permitting program

       11    that I outlined in the previous slide, then we would

       12    draft a permit and an impact report and public notice

       13    those.  And at that point we propose the permit for

       14    public comment.

       15             The two yellow squares are basically where we

       16    are right now.  We have proposed the permit, we are in

       17    the process of receiving public comments, and we have

       18    until October 15th to complete that process.  Today we

       19    are holding a public hearing to receive oral comments

       20    on the PSD permit that we proposed, as well as the

       21    impact report that we wrote, and after that process is

       22    completed, we will consider all the comments, written

       23    and oral, and respond to those comments.  After we put

       24    our responses together, we will also be making a

       25    decision whether to issue or deny the permit for the

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        1    project.

        2             So at this point of the permitting process, we

        3    have not decided whether we are going to issue a permit

        4    or not.  What we are doing is essentially saying it

        5    looks like it's met all the requirements, here's how

        6    the permit's going to look, here's an impact report,

        7    please submit comments to us if you think we've missed

        8    something.

        9             Finally, if we issue the permit, or if we deny

       10    the permit, there would be an opportunity for an appeal

       11    to that permit.  So there's a -- I believe a 30-day

       12    period after we have made our decision for the public

       13    to decide whether they want to appeal the project or

       14    our decision.

       15             Next slide.

       16             So our analysis of the Avenal Energy Project

       17    is that it is subject to the PSD permitting

       18    requirements for N02, for CO, N02 is basically Nox

       19    emissions, particulate matter and particulate matter of

       20    less than ten microns in diameter.  And EPA is

       21    proposing the PSD permit for this project because we

       22    believe that they have met all the requirements under

       23    the program.

       24             In our permit we are proposing stringent

       25    emission limitations for all the equipment that may

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        1    emit pollutants subject to the PSD Permitting Program.

        2    We are also requiring the installation of the best

        3    available control technology.  In this case it's

        4    basically a catalyst to reduce emissions, much like we

        5    do in new automobiles today.  And we will require the

        6    installation of monitoring systems so that we can

        7    actually monitor continuously the emissions that are

        8    coming out from the facility.  We will require source

        9    testing to assure that the monitors are obviously doing

       10    their job, as well as the equipment that's being used

       11    to control the emissions.  And we will have

       12    requirements for recordkeeping of all of this and

       13    reporting requirements as well.

       14             Next slide, please.

       15             The next steps after this hearing are, as I

       16    mentioned earlier, for us to review the comments and

       17    respond to them and for us to make a final decision.

       18    One note that we make up here is that there is a

       19    requirement for us to conduct a biological analysis

       20    along with the Fish and Wildlife Services in case

       21    there's an endangered species in the area.  And so once

       22    the Fish and Wild Life Services tells us there is or

       23    isn't a endangered species that may or may not be

       24    harmed in this area, once that's completed, then we can

       25    make our final decision about this project.

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        1             So for making comments today you can, as Steve

        2    mentioned earlier, you can fill out a green speaker

        3    form, which are at the entrance, so that you can sign

        4    in and we can let people come up here and comment in an

        5    orderly fashion.  You don't have to do that.  You can

        6    submit written comments.

        7             If you want to write some comments today,

        8    there's a form, as Steve mentioned, that you can fill

        9    out and submit it into our comment box.  You can also

       10    submit written comment in the address above, and you

       11    can -- if you want to take that address with you,

       12    there's a flier in the back with all the information

       13    about that.  And you can either fax them at the number

       14    that's up on the screen or submit them through email or

       15    submit them to regular mail to Shirley Rivera.

       16             Next slide.

       17             If you would like to get more information

       18    about this project, feel free to let one of our staff

       19    at the front entrance know, or you can go to our

       20    website and there you should be able to get the

       21    information.  We posted everything about this project

       22    that we have on the web.  You can also go to the San

       23    Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District where we

       24    sent them comments of all our materials.  And as I

       25    mentioned earlier, you can also call any of the people

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        1    listed in that same flier that's in the front.

        2             Thank you for your attention.

        3             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Gerardo.

        4             Soon I'm going to be calling out people's

        5    names to submit oral comments.  Before I do that I just

        6    want to mention one more -- one more item, and that's

        7    if you wanted to review a formal transcript of

        8    tonight's proceedings, you can do so.  A formal

        9    transcript of tonight's proceedings will be available

       10    for inspection at EPA Region 9's -- EPA Region 9's

       11    website, or you can also go to EPA's regional offices

       12    at 75 Hawthorne Street, San Francisco, California.

       13             If you do wish to come to the EPA building to

       14    review the transcript, we do ask that you contact

       15    Shirley Rivera, who's in the back of the room -- her

       16    telephone number is area code (415) 972-3966 -- to make

       17    arrangements at least 24 hours in advance because of

       18    the building security procedures.

       19             If you wish to purchase an official copy of a

       20    transcript of tonight's proceedings, I would ask that

       21    you would make arrangements with the Court Reporter

       22    after the hearing.

       23             With all that said and done, I would like to

       24    call up our first person for -- to submit an oral

       25    comment.  And that will be Harlin Casida.

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        1             Mr. Casida, good evening.

        2             MR. CASIDA:  Casida, but that's fine.

        3             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Casida?

        4             MR. CASIDA:  That happens all the time.

        5             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Oh, does it?  Thank you

        6    for correcting me.

        7             MR. CASIDA:  I'm Harlin Casida, Mayor of the

        8    City of Avenal.  First I'd like to welcome you and your

        9    staff to our City and hope that --

       10             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.

       11             MR. CASIDA:  -- your stay has been a pleasant

       12    one.  And to those in the audience, if you're not from

       13    Avenal, welcome to Avenal.  You can be a friend of the

       14    family, and those of you from Avenal, welcome here as

       15    members of the family.

       16             I stand before you as a supporter of the

       17    Avenal Energy Project.  Eight years ago we started this

       18    long venture with Duke Energy.  It was a energy plant

       19    similar to the one at Morro Bay.  I was just a

       20    councilman at that time.  And they sold to another

       21    company.  They improved a little bit what Duke had

       22    started, and for three years that happened.  I was

       23    Mayor Pro Tem at that time.

       24             The last three years we've been dealing with

       25    Avenal Energy, and it's a completely different physical

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        1    project.  The smoke stacks are not there.  It's, as I

        2    look at it, like an automobile that recirculates the

        3    water, uses it over and over again.

        4             So I've been involved in this for eight years,

        5    and it's been a long, long journey.  And last night I

        6    came to the informational session and that glimmer of

        7    light that we used to see became a sunshine for me.  I

        8    could see where Avenal Energy had gone into the

        9    Prevention of Significant Deterioration process, and

       10    that they had taken into consideration carbon monoxide,

       11    nitrogen dioxide, particulate matter and other air

       12    pollutants, and they've done this with the use of best

       13    available control technology.  From the first project

       14    we had with Duke till the current one, you can see that

       15    that has occurred.

       16             And then using the best technology available

       17    they've met the criterias that they've protected

       18    national parks, the air quality, the visibility in the

       19    area, national wild -- wilderness areas, scenic areas,

       20    they've protected the soil and the vegetation around

       21    the area, and most of all they've protected the people.

       22             It is in an isolated area, probably the

       23    closest community is five plus miles away from the

       24    site.  There's other communities further, 6, 8, 15

       25    miles away.

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        1             In doing this, and the permitting that you're

        2    going through, if the permit is given, it's going to

        3    give, or allow, economic growth to the region, to our

        4    county and to our city.  And with this we're hoping to

        5    get employment.  We're 25.7 percent unemployed at the

        6    current time.  The plant will employ probably around

        7    300 employees for construction, and upon its completion

        8    hire approximately 26 permanent employees.

        9             Other valuable assets this energy plant

       10    presents is its location.  It needs water, it's next to

       11    the California Aqueduct.  It needs natural gas, it's

       12    about a mile and a half from the PG&E compressor

       13    station.  It needs to put the electricity into the

       14    grid, and it's about five or six miles from Gates Power

       15    Station.  So that is going to protect the environment

       16    because the lack -- it's not going to have to make

       17    miles and miles and miles of pipeline or miles and

       18    miles and miles of towers and electrical lines.

       19             Again, I'd like to thank you for coming to

       20    Avenal and giving our people the opportunity to speak,

       21    and we hope that you'll come back in about 35, 40 days

       22    from now saying it's a project.  And then, "Mayor,

       23    you're okay."  Thank you very much.

       24             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you very much.

       25             I should also mention too, Mr. Casida, if

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        1    anyone at the end of their time wishes to inform me

        2    that they would like to continue, you know, later on

        3    after we go through our first round of speakers, please

        4    let me know and I'll make a note on your card, and once

        5    we get through the first round of comments, I will be

        6    happy to call people back up to the microphone.

        7             MR. CASIDA:  No.

        8             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Okay, great, thank you

        9    so much.

       10             The next person I would like to invite to make

       11    a comment is Nick Ivans.

       12             Good evening, Mr. Ivans.

       13             MR. IVANS:  Good evening.

       14             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  Thank you so

       15    much.

       16             MR. IVANS:  Well, I'm a resident -- I've been

       17    a resident -- my wife and I have been a resident of

       18    Avenal for 59 years.  And we're both pharmacists and we

       19    raised 14 -- or I should say 14 children have gone

       20    through our home, our own plus foster children and so

       21    forth.  But anyway, we just love Avenal.

       22             And I've followed this project for -- for

       23    probably as long as Harlin has, but not as involved as

       24    he has been.  But I'm a hundred percent for it.  I

       25    think it's a win-win proposition for Avenal and society

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        1    in general.  And I'll do anything I can to promote it.

        2             And one thing I didn't mention is I still work

        3    at the pharmacy.  We sold the store years ago, but I

        4    just got off-duty here about an hour before I came

        5    here.  So we're going to be going out to dinner

        6    actually after.

        7             But anyway, I'm just a hundred percent for

        8    this project, and I think that it's a win-win

        9    proposition for Avenal and the -- and the area in

       10    particular because we do need energy and this is --

       11    this is a source well needed.  Okay, thank you very

       12    much.

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you for stopping

       14    by.

       15             MR. IVANS:  Yeah, okay.

       16             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Appreciate it.

       17             The next person I'd like to invite up to make

       18    a comment is Cheryl Tuttle.

       19             Good evening, Ms. Tuttle.

       20             MS. TUTTLE:  Good evening.

       21             THE HEARING OFFICER:  How are you?  Is that a

       22    little too high for you, Ms. Tuttle?

       23             MS. TUTTLE:  I think I can reach it.

       24             My name is Cheryl Tuttle.  I moved to Avenal

       25    when I was five, and except for six years when my

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        1    husband was in the Air Force during the Vietnam War and

        2    going to college after the Service, I've lived in

        3    Avenal ever since.  That would be a total of 52 years.

        4             My husband and I both chose service jobs.

        5    Before his retirement from the U.S. Postal Service he

        6    was a carrier, a clerk and the Post Master in Avenal.

        7    He's been a reserve deputy sheriff for over 30 years

        8    working both jobs for years.

        9             For ten years when my children were small I

       10    was a substitute teacher.  When they were a little

       11    older I began teaching full-time, and I taught for 25

       12    years here in Avenal Elementary School where I went to

       13    school and my children went to school.  In addition to

       14    our careers, we've also served as volunteers for many

       15    years in many different capacities.

       16             Now I tell you all of this so that you will

       17    understand our stake in this community.  We truly care

       18    about Avenal.  We are convinced after listening to both

       19    sides of the argument over the proposed plant that

       20    building the plant here would be good for Avenal, as

       21    well as the State.  I attended the informational

       22    meetings and listened to the comments last summer and I

       23    thought it was very involved, a very complete

       24    explanation, and I have also -- I also came last night

       25    to pick up some of your material and go over it today

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        1    before I came this evening.

        2             This plant would bring jobs to our town, which

        3    is presently suffering a very depressed economy and a

        4    high jobless rate.  We have over 25 percent joblessness

        5    in Avenal.  It would help the broader region by

        6    producing much needed energy and a plant that will put

        7    out much less pollution than other plants with older

        8    technology that are presently on line.  We heartily

        9    support building this plant as it has been proposed and

       10    the sooner the better.  Thank you.

       11             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Ms. Tuttle.

       12    I appreciate your comments.

       13             And the next person I would like to invite up

       14    to the microphone is Rory Cox.

       15             Good evening, Mr. Cox.

       16             MR. COX:  Good evening.  Hi, my name is Rory

       17    Cox, and I'm the California Program Director at a San

       18    Francisco-based organization called Pacific

       19    Environment.  And we at Pacific Environment deeply

       20    appreciate the EPA's careful consideration of the

       21    potential impacts of this Avenal project.

       22             One question that I have not seen a good

       23    answer to is why does a rural area like this need 600

       24    megawatts of new fossil fuel generation?

       25             Power companies and utilities claim that

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        1    California needs to increase the number of in-state

        2    natural gas power plants to ensure adequate electrical

        3    supply and good reliability.  But a 2003 study

        4    conducted by Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, however,

        5    proves that this claim is not valid and current trends

        6    that have happened since then have certainly bore --

        7    bear that out.  As the State pursues more natural gas

        8    power plants, we've fallen behind on our renewable

        9    goals and our renewable law.

       10             The Lawrence study deserves special

       11    consideration, especially considering that the Avenal

       12    project is in direct conflict with the State's

       13    renewable portfolio standard, and as outlined by our

       14    colleagues at the Center on Race, Poverty and the

       15    Environment, it puts the health of Avenal citizens at

       16    risk by negatively impacting the region's air basin.

       17             The Lawrence study shows that as California

       18    gets closer to its renewable energy standard, it will

       19    reduce growth and fossil energy demand, and the future

       20    need for natural gas power plants will dramatically

       21    decrease.

       22             The Governor just signed an Executive Order

       23    requiring California to get 33 percent of electricity

       24    from renewable energy.  Right now we're at about 12

       25    percent.  According to the Lawrence lab we would need

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        1    about 8,000 megawatts less from natural gas -- from

        2    natural gas power plants.  The renewable portfolio

        3    standard calls for the retirement of natural gas power

        4    plants, not for additional natural gas plants such as

        5    the Avenal project.

        6             The Lawrence study also provides evidence that

        7    California already has more than enough resources

        8    available to meet electrical load, further suggesting

        9    that the Avenal project is unnecessary.  The current

       10    in-state and out-of-state generation sources provide

       11    California with a total power capacity of a staggering

       12    89,000 megawatts.  This is about 50 percent higher than

       13    has ever been recorded as a peak demand.

       14             As the Lawrence study shows, there is no need

       15    for the Avenal Energy Project.  There is already excess

       16    capacity to meet California's energy needs, and this

       17    project would violate the State's renewable portfolio

       18    standard law and be in direct conflict with AB-32 and

       19    the Governor's Executive Order.

       20             In 2008 the PUC and the California Energy

       21    Commission stated that they are committed to working

       22    together to evaluate the potential for 33 percent of

       23    the power delivered in California renewable by 2020.

       24    For the reasons we've just presented, and for those

       25    presented by our colleagues at the Center for Race,

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        1    Poverty and the Environment, we urge a denial of this

        2    application.

        3             And I just wanted to comment on the jobs

        4    issue.  26 permanent jobs is certainly not worth the --

        5    the -- what's going to happen to the air around here.

        6    And there are -- in many parts of this country that

        7    have looked into it and invested in it, there has been

        8    a boom in what are called "green collar jobs," or jobs

        9    in the new technology -- new energy technologies, such

       10    as solar paneled manufacturing, installation, and

       11    efficiency technologies.

       12             Parts of this country that are investing in

       13    that are having a boom in their economy, such as

       14    Oregon.  Oregon has passed favorable tax breaks to

       15    those types of companies, and as a result there is

       16    quite an economic boom.  So the 26 jobs is pretty

       17    negligible compared to what this region could do.  So I

       18    thank you very much.

       19             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.

       20             Thank you, Mr. Cox.

       21             The next person I'd like to call up to the

       22    microphone for a comment is John Honnette.

       23             MR. HONNETTE:  Yes.

       24             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Good evening,

       25    Mr. Honnette.

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        1             MR. HONNETTE:  Good evening.  I want to thank

        2    the energy -- the EPA for coming to Avenal and

        3    soliciting comments from people here.  I don't live in

        4    Avenal, I live over in Kingsburg, which is about an

        5    hour's drive from here.  I work primarily in the

        6    Visalia area, but I do come to Avenal at least once a

        7    month on a job-related trip.

        8             And one of the comments I want to offer is the

        9    poor attendance that was especially obvious last night.

       10    It is again obvious tonight, and I think there's one

       11    tip I'd like to pass on to you.  In my work with Tulare

       12    County as an environmental health specialist we put on

       13    events out in small communities such as Avenal, but in

       14    Tulare County where we go out once or twice a year and

       15    we have an event called a Household Hazardous Waste

       16    Collection and people can bring in their hazardous

       17    wastes from their households, pesticides, batteries,

       18    paint, things like this, and we learned the hard way

       19    that simply putting an advertisement into a newspaper

       20    didn't attract very much people for our events.

       21             The thing that we have been doing for the last

       22    several years that has made a significant improvement

       23    in our attendance and participation in our events is

       24    putting a flier, just a one-page flier, one side

       25    English, one side Spanish, into the utility bills for

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        1    the residents.  Everybody looks at their utility bill.

        2    It's real easy to overlook a little -- you know, an

        3    announcement in a newspaper.  So if that is something

        4    that you would be willing to consider.  Certainly if

        5    you would be able to do that in Avenal between now and

        6    the 15th, I think you could definitely get a lot more

        7    people aware of the situation.  Whether they show up or

        8    not, time will tell.  So I think that would be a good

        9    plus to start doing.

       10             I've noticed also with the CEC meetings that

       11    have been held here very poor attendance.  And again,

       12    it's difficult to reach people through the newspapers.

       13             I want to echo the comments made by the

       14    previous speaker, Mr. Cox, that we don't need another

       15    natural gas power plant in this area.  It is certainly

       16    not an energy intensive area and a plant is not needed

       17    here for electricity for the local residents.

       18             I would challenge the previous speakers to ask

       19    them how many of the 26 long-term jobs that will be

       20    available here do they expect to come from Avenal

       21    residents?  It certainly won't exceed 26.  And I would

       22    suggest that perhaps the biggest advantage to having

       23    the plant here may be tax revenue to the local

       24    community rather than jobs.

       25             If jobs was really the -- the -- the desire to

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        1    create here, I think a very logical alternative would

        2    be to build a solar farm.  It would not emit the

        3    hundreds -- actually, just the criteria pollutants that

        4    were mentioned for the EPA total over a thousand tons

        5    per year, and that doesn't include the ones that the

        6    San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District is

        7    evaluating separately.

        8             In addition to that, this plant, if built,

        9    will generate nearly two million tons of CO2 a year.

       10    That's a huge amount.  A solar farm would not generate

       11    those air emissions and would create a lot more jobs,

       12    both in the installation of it and in the maintenance

       13    of it.  The solar panels have to be washed regularly.

       14    The ground below the solar panels has to be maintained

       15    so the weeds don't grow up along the panels.  There's a

       16    lot of additional jobs that a solar farm that would

       17    generate 600 megawatts of energy would offer the

       18    community than a natural gas power plant.

       19             Thank you very much.

       20             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Mr. Honnette,

       21    and I appreciate your comments about the outreach.  I

       22    know that we are always looking for effective ways to

       23    reach out to the community, and I'm sure that your

       24    comments will be seriously considered.  Thank you.

       25             The next person I'd like to call to the

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        1    microphone is Cheryl Taylor.

        2             Good evening, Ms. Taylor.

        3             MS. TAYLOR:  Hi.

        4             THE HEARING OFFICER:  How are you?

        5             MS. TAYLOR:  Nervous, I don't like talking in

        6    public.  I'll try to --

        7             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Think of everyone in

        8    their underwear.

        9             MS. TAYLOR:  That's -- no.

       10             I -- I have the local newspaper here, and I've

       11    been following the -- all the proceedings for the last

       12    eight years.  I think it will be good for the

       13    community.  Sure, maybe the people won't be working

       14    that live here in town, but like the man said, it will

       15    generate income to the City of Avenal and that will

       16    trickle down.  We can use it for projects here in town,

       17    you know, that will help our kids.

       18             Maybe we don't need another gas powered power

       19    plant, but this one here is supposed to be better as

       20    far as pollution than the old ones and maybe we can

       21    retire out the old ones.  And we already have a solar

       22    project going in in Coalinga they're working on, so it

       23    all works together.  And we need -- we need more power

       24    in California because there will be more people.  The

       25    population keeps growing, and eventually we're going to

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        1    be out of power, you know, if we don't -- if we don't

        2    keep looking ahead.

        3             And, you know, maybe it's not the best,

        4    solar's probably better, but it's probably better than

        5    a lot of the older ones anyway.  I think -- I think we

        6    should have it for the community.  I think it will be

        7    good.  I think it will be a plus.  Thanks.

        8             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Ms. Taylor.

        9             And the next person I'd like to call up to the

       10    microphone is Jim Jepsen.

       11             Good evening, Mr. Jepsen.

       12             MR. JEPSEN:  How you doing?

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you for joining us

       14    tonight.

       15             MR. JEPSEN:  Well, thank you very much.  Thank

       16    you for coming to the City of Avenal.  We appreciate

       17    you coming and visiting.  I'm here to speak for -- for

       18    the project.

       19             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Excuse me, Mr. Jepsen.

       20    I would just ask, because I know people in the back

       21    can't hear you, if you could just maybe speak a little

       22    closer to the microphone.  Thank you.

       23             MR. JEPSEN:  But I'm here to talk about the

       24    citizens.  The citizens that need a project like this.

       25    One of the gentleman says, well, 26 jobs, not that

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        1    many.  It's going to take more than 26 people to build

        2    this project.  I believe they're talking hundreds of

        3    positions, you know.  Right now we're at -- it's a part

        4    of our lives that everyone needs a job.  I'm lucky

        5    enough to have a job.  There are many here that do not.

        6             And I -- and I chose Avenal.  As you look

        7    around the room, I'm probably the youngster of the

        8    group.  I'm the one that's only got 22 years living

        9    here in Avenal.  I picked it not because of what Avenal

       10    was at the time, it's what I saw.  And what really got

       11    me was the people.  They were proud.  They were -- they

       12    were coming out when the prison was built, people were

       13    coming and saying, "Hey, who are you?"  Dah, dah, dah,

       14    dah, dah, and introducing themselves, coming and

       15    wanting us to join their group.  This is a

       16    family-oriented town.

       17             And, you know, maybe we're looking at, well,

       18    it's -- it's a positive thing for the City because of

       19    the tax.  Yes, the tax base will definitely help out

       20    the citizens because we could do a lot more projects.

       21    We're not as large as a lot of towns around the area

       22    that anybody -- any amount of money we get helps the

       23    citizens.

       24             Eight years ago -- I've been on the Planning

       25    Commission prior to joining the Council for about 20

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        1    years.  About eight years ago, when Duke was on, I had

        2    the opportunity to walk around, talk to the people.  A

        3    lot of people didn't understand what was happening, but

        4    they were jazzed.  There's something big, something new

        5    coming into town.  Then all the sudden it disappeared

        6    and it kind of went down.

        7             Well, because people saw what it could do to

        8    the City.  You know, most people don't realize that,

        9    you know, big things that -- that more -- a lot of

       10    people in large cities come accustomed to have, and I

       11    picked like pavement in the alleys.  A lot of our

       12    alleys are dirt, you know.  Maybe the taxes will pave

       13    the alleys, making it look nice.  You start cleaning up

       14    alleys, the city looks much nicer.

       15             When I first moved in we didn't have curbs and

       16    gutters.  That's -- that's outrageous.  22 years ago,

       17    curbs and gutters.  Now, they're all over and they're

       18    great.  People are cleaning up their areas.  They are

       19    proud of their homes.  They are proud of our city.  We

       20    are building the theater.  People are getting jazzed

       21    because now we finally got the marquee up and they're

       22    all looking at that going, "Hey, it's coming."

       23             The citizens of Avenal need something

       24    positive.  This is one of those items that we need,

       25    because in a long -- in the -- all about the realm of

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        1    the situation, we're all going to benefit.  If it was

        2    that dangerous, and coming last night looking and

        3    trying to understand, because I don't understand all

        4    this particle stuff, I'm just a simple person trying to

        5    understand.  But one of the points they made out is

        6    that the particles and stuff, it's not as bad as people

        7    growing up in Los Angeles.  I spent 30 years in Los

        8    Angeles and I'm pretty healthy.  So if that's all I

        9    have to worry about, then I'm good.

       10             But another thing is listen to the people of

       11    Avenal.  I'm not saying the gentlemen coming up who

       12    don't live here, they have some righteous complaints or

       13    items brought up, but the people of Avenal, that's

       14    what's important.  Thank you.

       15             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Mr. Jepsen.

       16             The next person I'd like to call to the

       17    microphone is John Lehn.

       18             Good evening, Mr. Lehn.

       19             MR. LEHN:  Good evening.

       20             THE HEARING OFFICER:  How are you?

       21             MR. LEHN:  Fine, thank you.  My name is John

       22    Lehn.

       23             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Mr. Lehn?

       24             MR. LEHN:  Yes.

       25             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Mr. Lehn, I was going to

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        1    ask you, could you maybe move the microphone?  There

        2    you go.

        3             MR. LEHN:  Thank you.

        4             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Because it will be a

        5    little clearer.

        6             MR. LEHN:  I certainly thank you for bringing

        7    your listening ear and the diligence of EPA to Avenal.

        8    We welcome in Kings County that level of scrutiny

        9    because I believe this project, as EPA has reviewed it,

       10    certainly exceeds all of the thresholds that are

       11    required.

       12             I'm representing tonight two groups.  I'm the

       13    president and CEO of the Kings County Economic

       14    Development Corporation and also the Director of the

       15    Kings County Job Training Office.

       16             As I imagine you know, the purpose of an

       17    Economic Development Corporation is to work along with

       18    the community to attract good paying jobs, jobs for the

       19    future, jobs with benefits and so on for local

       20    residents.  Interestingly I think, and a good match

       21    from the job-training side, is to prepare the local

       22    workforce so that they're qualified to compete for

       23    those jobs and be successful in that competition.

       24             With regard to this project, I certainly first

       25    have to offer a compliment to Avenal Power Center.

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        1    I've been in work force development for about 32 years

        2    and economic development for about 12 years, and I have

        3    to say that Avenal Power Center is absolutely at the

        4    top with regard to their environmental sensitivity and

        5    to their stewardship for the land.  They came into our

        6    office.  Oftentimes a project will develop kind of in a

        7    stealth mode, however, they were absolutely up front

        8    saying that we're taking -- consider taking over the

        9    project and would like to share our vision with you, I

       10    believe they did that also.  Wherever they went, they

       11    asked to come before our boards in public session to

       12    share that -- that vision, and I think that speaks to

       13    their, again, transparency.

       14             As far as the stewardship, I think we also

       15    have to take a look at how this project has

       16    accommodated each and every rightful concern that has

       17    been brought before them.  Look at, for example, the

       18    water savings.  You take a look at the original design

       19    versus the final design, which uses literally a

       20    fraction of the amount of water that was -- it was

       21    originally designed for.  If you look at their

       22    willingness to modify their site plan to accommodate

       23    the local wildlife, I think that again is reflective of

       24    their openness and the sensitivity.

       25             In our estimation from the economic

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        1    development side this project isn't simply a 600

        2    megawatt power plant.  It's also a potential anchor for

        3    what can become an Avenal industrial park.  A home for

        4    a future manufacturing, distribution, cold storage,

        5    and, you know, many other users that could potentially

        6    capitalize on Avenal's -- whatever Avenal's assets are

        7    and what they have to offer, particularly the adjacency

        8    to I-5 and the fact that we're really kind of right in

        9    the middle between Los Angeles and San Francisco and

       10    along the main transportation corridor.

       11             From a job standpoint both the 300-plus

       12    construction jobs and the ongoing employment are

       13    significant.  The economic multiplier of construction

       14    jobs, as well as the ongoing jobs, are equally

       15    significant.  One of the responsibilities of our

       16    offices, as I mentioned, is to prepare those local

       17    employees, and I believe along with the West Hills

       18    College we will certainly be successful in that.

       19             In closing, the Economic Development

       20    Corporation and Job Training Office certainly

       21    encourages U.S. EPA to approve the issuance of the

       22    Prevention of Significant Deterioration Permit for the

       23    Avenal Power Center Project.

       24             Again, thank you for your time.

       25             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Mr. Lehn.

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        1             The next person I would like to call to the

        2    microphone to submit a comment is I believe -- is it

        3    Dohha Elliott?

        4             Good evening, Ms. Elliott.

        5             MS. ELLIOTT:  Donna.

        6             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Oh, is it Donna?  I'm

        7    sorry, I thought those were H's.

        8             MS. ELLIOTT:  Bad writing.

        9             THE HEARING OFFICER:  No, it's okay, I

       10    apologize.

       11             MS. ELLIOTT:  My name is Donna Elliott.  I

       12    have a company in town that --

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Ms. Elliott, can I ask

       14    you maybe to turn the mic?  There you go.  There you

       15    go.

       16             MS. ELLIOTT:  I have a company in town that I

       17    own and manage.  I've been here for 42 years.  I

       18    certainly appreciate everyone that has spoke to this

       19    project and what they've said and agree with it, agree

       20    about how much we love the town and how much it really

       21    would benefit the town, and so, of course, I'm

       22    supporting it.

       23             I'd also like to say that the meeting was

       24    moved to 7:00 o'clock and so Wanda Brown, who manages

       25    the Avenal Hospital -- District Hospital -- Avenal

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        1    Hospital District and the ambulance service feels very

        2    much the same way and she would have been here if it

        3    had been earlier.  Thank you.

        4             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  Thank you,

        5    Ms. Elliott.

        6             And the next person that I would like to call

        7    to the microphone is Robert Mullen.

        8             Good evening, Mr. Mullen.

        9             MR. MULLEN:  Good evening.  Good evening, I'm

       10    Robert Mullen.  I have lived in Avenal 44 years.  I

       11    moved here in 1965.  I am definitely in support of the

       12    project.  I feel not only this area needs this project,

       13    the State needs it.  The State needs more projects like

       14    this to provide more electricity for the future of the

       15    State.  The economy in the State is going downhill and

       16    with more support, more electricity, maybe part of it

       17    can turn around.

       18             I worked for the Kings County Fire Department

       19    for 29 years.  The one gentleman was talking about the

       20    pollutants.  Over the course of 29 years I inhaled a

       21    lot of various pollutants firefighting structures,

       22    grass, all of that in this area.  I worked here at the

       23    station in Avenal for about 20 years.  And I'm still

       24    alive.  But there's -- there is pollutants, there's no

       25    doubt about that, but with this new technology that's

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        1    out there and the upcoming technology, I think it will

        2    clear out.  Thank you.

        3             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Mr. Mullen.

        4             That's our first round of comments.

        5             If anyone would like to make an additional

        6    comment, we have plenty of time.  And if not, what I'll

        7    do is we'll go off the record.  We'll take a break and

        8    if anyone during that break, you know, rethinks whether

        9    or not you would like to come up and make an additional

       10    comment, please feel free to do so.  So we'll go off

       11    record for, let's say -- it's now 8:10 p.m.  We'll go

       12    off record until 8:20 p.m.  We'll take a ten-minute

       13    break.  Thank you.

       14             (Recess taken.)

       15             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Hello, everyone.  This

       16    is Steve Jawgiel.  If I could have everyone take their

       17    seats or feel free to partake in the refreshments that

       18    are at the table over there.  We are going to go back

       19    on record.

       20             We do have another person that would like to

       21    make a comment.  Instead of keeping her waiting, I

       22    would like to go ahead and have her make her comments

       23    on the record, and then if there is no one else who

       24    would like to make comments at that time, we'll take

       25    another break.

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        1             At this time if I can have Melissa Whitten

        2    step up to the microphone and make a comment.

        3             MR. WHITTEN:  Good evening everyone, thank

        4    you.  We appreciate you coming to Avenal.  I'm Melissa

        5    Whitten.  I've lived in Avenal for a good part of my

        6    life and I have been honored to work for the City of

        7    Avenal for the past 25 years.  I have also been City

        8    Manager for almost 16 of those 25 years.  As City

        9    staff, I've been directly involved with this project

       10    since its inception and I've seen it evolve to the

       11    great project it is today.

       12             The City Mayor has already spoken on behalf of

       13    the City, and my comments would just echo his.  I would

       14    like to state that this project is a key piece to our

       15    economic development plan for the industrial park which

       16    has been established since 1993.  It would become an

       17    anchor if it does locate in our industrial park.  But

       18    not only would its anchor be the significant piece, it

       19    could actually provide further spin-off industries and

       20    we greatly need industrial development within the city,

       21    we need jobs.  We have been hit terribly over the past

       22    few years with the layoffs and lack of jobs.

       23             It's an important project, not only for the

       24    City of Avenal, it is an important project to meet the

       25    power needs of approximately 450,000 people and

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        1    businesses in the State of California.  So with that,

        2    for the record I would like to state that I am in favor

        3    of the project and I thank you very much.

        4             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  Thank you,

        5    Ms. Whitten.  I very much appreciate your participation

        6    tonight.

        7             Again, if there is anyone else that would like

        8    to make an additional comment, I would invite you to

        9    step up to the microphone.  Otherwise, we will take

       10    another break.  It is now approximately 8:25 p.m. and

       11    we'll go off record for the time being.  Thank you.

       12             (Recess taken.)

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Hello, ladies and

       14    gentlemen, we have another person that would like to

       15    speak.  And I'd like to invite Mr. Honnette back up to

       16    the microphone.

       17             Thank you, Mr. Honnette.  And then,

       18    Mr. Honnette, we'll give you another five minutes, if

       19    you did need more than that, we have plenty of time,

       20    so...

       21             MR. HONNETTE:  I'm certain I won't need more

       22    than five minutes.

       23             THE HEARING OFFICER:  We'll be very flexible.

       24             MR. HONNETTE:  I just have one other relevant

       25    comment that I thought would be appropriate to make.

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        1             I represent an organization that's an

        2    intervenor in this project with the California Energy

        3    Commission.  I'm the contact person for that

        4    organization, and I was surprised that there was no

        5    coordination between the EPA and the California Energy

        6    Commission, as far as trying to utilize perhaps the

        7    people that were, you know, providing comment at their

        8    hearings and notifying them.  I think there's an

        9    opportunity for some better notification if there was

       10    some cooperation between the agencies.

       11             For example, I knew about the meeting that's

       12    scheduled for the 15th was going to be occurring

       13    through an email that somebody sent me.  It wasn't any

       14    government organization, it was a private citizen.  But

       15    as an intervenor at the CEC I would have hoped that

       16    there might have been some sort of effort to have

       17    informed me about it.

       18             I was visiting with a gentleman at the San

       19    Joaquin Valley Air Control District yesterday afternoon

       20    on a different matter and he mentioned to me that there

       21    was a meeting here last night.  If I hadn't had that

       22    casual conversation with him about another matter, I

       23    wouldn't have been aware of the meeting either last

       24    night or tonight.  And so I think there's a number of

       25    people that have attended the CEC's hearings here in

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        1    Avenal, there were some local citizens that came out

        2    and spoke in opposition to the power plant in fact.

        3    None of them are here.  I don't know why they're not

        4    here, but I suspect that they were not aware of this

        5    meeting occurring, the workshop last night or the

        6    meeting tonight.

        7             So, again, in an effort to try to just have

        8    better communication, more people notified about it

        9    that are interested, perhaps there could be a

       10    coordination done between CEC, the people that come to

       11    their hearings.  They've got to list those people, you

       12    know, by email, address, whatever, and those people

       13    could be notified perhaps in some way for your

       14    meetings, that in this case at least, are later than

       15    the CEC hearings.  Thank you.

       16             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  Thank you.

       17             If anyone else would like to make any

       18    additional comments, we have plenty of time.

       19             At this time we'll go off record again.  It's

       20    approximately 9:45 -- I mean 8:45, and we'll just

       21    reconvene in about 15, 20 minutes.  We'll check in at

       22    that point.  Thank you.

       23             (Recess taken.)

       24             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Ladies and gentlemen,

       25    it's officially 10:00 o'clock.  Thank you everyone for

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        1    coming tonight and participating in this, in this

        2    hearing.  And we are officially off the record and this

        3    proceeding is officially closed, thank you.

        4             (Matter concluded.)

        5                           ---oOo---

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        1                           ---oOo---

        2

        3              I, CHERI FIKE, a Certified Shorthand

        4    Reporter, DO HEREBY CERTIFY:

        5             That I was the Official Court Reporter for the

        6    proceedings named herein, and that as such Reporter, I

        7    reported in verbatim shorthand writing those

        8    proceedings;

        9             That I thereafter caused my shorthand writing

       10    to be reduced to typewriting, and the foregoing and

       11    annexed pages constitute a full, true, and correct

       12    record of the proceedings.

       13             IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed this

       14    certificate at Hanford, California, on the 7th day of

       15    October, 2009.

       16

       17

       18
                      _____________________________
       19             CHERI FIKE
                      Official Court Reporter #6200
       20

       21

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       23

       24

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