My 2 cents Aaron s claim Y is true because If X then Y MrVoluntarist s argument If X then Z Z is false therefore not X Thus Aaron s argument is invalid Note that MrVoluntarist s argument doesn t prove Y is false it simply proves that Y is true because If X then Y is not a valid argument If MrVoluntarist had said that Aaron s claim was Z that would have been a strawman But MrVoluntarist simply showed to Aaron s satisfaction that X was false That is not a strawman that s simply pointing out a false premise X is If an action is violent then it is wrong Y is The violent act of shooting trespassers is wrong Z is The violent act of fighting in a war is wrong