15 February 2009 UTC If the point is that Warren and his church are viewed as controversial in some circles and that some substantial clear particularly to those unfamiliar with the American cultural stew from which this springs additional detail should be added to the articles both here and at Rick Warren to reflect that then that should be argued Otherwise all this blather over Savage s latest addition to the English language is a waste of time it s a poor surrogate that avoids mention of such substantive issues I think it reflects accumulated fatigue from the long arguments over past unsuccessful proposed changes 06 17