Manchu state was established beyond China and it is clear by the following reasons The map you quoted at belongs only to the Yongle time 1360 1424 Before and after the land of Manchu was not a part of the Ming Refer also to the section Manchuria during the Ming Dynasty and to the history of Jianzhou Jurchens Also see Cambridge History of China vols 8 and 9 The Han Chinese called the Manchus guan wai de ren people from beyond of outposts meant that the Manchu lived outside China SK