Nothing personal Radh I appreciate the input My rant is directed at Toa mostly I realize Tao you are being a smart ass as if my suggestion is not practical You like to use so called wikipedia rules to hide your empty meaningless claims How about this for a rule 1 before you comment on other people read what they say 2 before you comment on the page read the page You seem to refuse to do either and continue to make smart ass comments for what seems to be the sole purpose of antagonizing well intentioned posters You have refused to do the one thing necessary to anyone who genuinely intends to help imporove this page actually read the page and actually read others comments While I believe Radh is well intentioned he or she partly suggests things that already exist on the page please see the writers section what used to be the lead section which Doom who has been working ont his page for a very long time moved lower both Doom and I have been working on this page a very long time both Doom and I have actually read the page because both Doom and I have actually written much of this page the comments Doom and I make on the discussion page are well intentioned practical and based on knowledge of the page none of which applies to your comments Tao Not only have your comments suggested a stubborn refusal to actually read the page or read the comments of others they also demonstrate a pervasive hypocricy and your comments thoroughly contradict one another I suggested mention of the abstract expressionists as a part of broader concept of the beat generation and you go ape shit Radh suggests it and it s an excellent and practical solution It makes no sense to me I can t help thinking you have tourettes or something finger tourettes that causes you to be incapable of typing anything but bullshit Now a direct response to Radh What I am suggesting is an accurate middle of the road definition They are not simply ideas Please read my comments above According to sources I found through a search method intended to eliminate prejudice beat generation means most commonly a subculture not a close circle I m not suggesting we change the page to focus less on the close circle I m suggesting we change it to more accurately represent the truth so that certain dumbasses have context with which to argue whether or not someone belongs in the group If someone says there is no such thing as a beat artists we can point at reliable sources and point to places on the page that clear this up in a neutral accurate way So while I appreciate your good intentions Radh this is not an excellent and practical solution because it s not an actual change which would be clear to certain other posters if they actually read the article Here I ll make it easy for you Tao Beat Generation It s just right there One click away Take ten minutes take an hour whatever Being an effective smartass means being a well informed smartass