UTC Proto there s been quite a discussion on this issue after we had ours It turns out that the G4 rule was in fact intended to mean something more closely resembling your initial understanding of the rule Some editors have been making attempts to write a clearer G4 and their efforts may be seen here and here on the CSD Talk page As you had an interest in this I thought I d give you a heads up I m sure your comments will be useful 10 54 56 2005 09 06