Thank you for that follow up Phoenix7777 Given this background I m perfectly happy for these sources and related text to be removed My main concerns with the anon IP were 1 changing what I thought was properly cited text to say something different and 2 making a claim with a new apparent citation but where that citation does not back up the point made about the forging techniques being the same as those in Shandong Your research above resolves my concerns about point 1 Cheers Tala vi mig