I care what you think because I want to resolve this dispute I am trying to find out why a bunch of I guess reasonably intelligent people can not agree Both sides seem to keep saying the same thing over and over again but making no impression on the other side What are we missing Why do we continue to talk past one another That is what I am trying to find out Nijdam it would seem does think that a solution to the well defined unconditional problem statement is obvious I have continued this point on the arguments page as I think this may be an important cause of disagreement