April 2006 UTC No offense was intended and please don t assume poor motives on my part It s a clear and obvious fact that many people do not believe in magic k I don t see that that in itself needs much discussion To actually debate the reality or otherwise of magic k is not necessarily futile but it requires a great deal of time and a great deal of charitable listening from all parties The pro magic k camp can either discuss complicated theories at great length or and I find this really distasteful cite examples of miraculous things they ve seen and done Either way it will achieve nothing in the face of committed skepticism but it will make for an extremely large discussion page Basically most serious occultists will not go out of their way to convince anyone of the truth of their beliefs however if you re genuinely interested there are newsgroups where you can enter discussions on the subject Prepare to devote a lot of time to it 09 18 20