To clarify the issue I ve bold faced my assertion now supported with the Berlinski reference versus the other editors assertions that the tape is not part of the machine At this point their assertion is bullshit unsupported with references and therefore requires the tag With the exception of your contention that some authors state that the tape is not part of the machine I want proof in the form of references I agree with what you wrote above in particular about the two kinds of states that was the point of my long screed above and the particular section of the article that discusses this distinction Bill