Well I was responding primarily to Shykee If you look up above I started by agreeing with something Shirhadassah made that is my main point I do not in any way dispute your claims about reform I didn t think anyone else was The conversation it seemed to me was about Orthodoxy not Reform Judaism As to Orthodoxy as a movement that was founded well the question is is Orthodoxy a movement If so it was indeed founded by people all movements are If you are saying that there was a large ppopulation of Jews during this time that did not belong to any movement well sure who could dispute that I do not doubt that between 1600 and 1800 there were many Jews in Eastern Europe you lived according to the Shulchan Aruch more or less And I agree that such a group does not have a founder But what could it possibly mean to lable them as Orthodox Did they identify themselves as Orthodox Or are you identifying these people with the Orthodox movement that emerged in the 1800s Are you making the same claims Shykee seemed to be making I may have misread him about the Orthodox then the same points the Conservatives make about the orthodox movement that it reflects a particular moment in jewish history and does not reflect an unbroken continuity with the past let alone rabbinic Judaism well then those points still apply