27 August 2005 UTC Hi McC welcome back to the kitchen The consequence according to the 1932 Otto Brok reaction reported only in 1967 by Mowrer was inevitable war Hitler preached it Brok and anyone politically sentient understood The Vatican received all report necessary from a vast body of clerics many of whom were attacked The Holocaust was but an ancillary figure to that of the war designed by Hitler but which fed off the sickness of un reconstructed germanity in the Weimar era I therefore include the figure accepted to cover the war years altogether I think the extra 20 million Stalin liquidees on top of the 40 million actual Russian casualties should really enter as the War was embraced by Stalin with much more purpose than any Pius and with a little bit more concentrated purpose than Hitler It was a very useful cover and the overturning of the magisterium provided both anti christs with their clothes My verdict re Hitler culpability is no he alone was neither solely culpable for the war nor for the holocaust The capitalist industrialists and the Army officer classes were also heavily responsible Mowrer certainly would have reported at the close of 1932 his second interview with Hitler Go to Edgar Ansel Mowrer to read it in full But the answer is no re Hitler Hitler sought popular following and justification for his project of death to the Jew s and Mowrer in his 1933 Germany Puts The Clock Back repeatedly quotes and describes and analyses the Nazi street slogan speech slogan of Perish the Jew If you like I can quote endless pages where this slogan is reported There can have been no popular misconception I am sorry to have to correct And for all we know that Brok story of Pius XI s Centre Party destabilisation did travel by telegram to his Chicago headquarters in 1932 However user s insistence on mispaced NPOV magnanimity would traduce this along with all source against the sweet old vatican clerics Come off it there was a mental bargain widely recognised that Pius XI a maybe justifiably rabid anti Soviet knew exactly why Hitler was a good thing This is why I at any rate will continue with your double effect question which is extremely apposite We may get to other possible contemporary alternative courses of action yet but first we shall deal with what did transpire Str1977 from the start produced the if they re gon na steal yr car why not try and sell it to the thieves cheap scenario I could not do not speculate on what you or I or he would do in the situation However McC this is not the issue The issue is whether these highest clerics contumately risked social justice human justice and the Magisterium in seeking bulwark against Communism I say you are right to shift us towards double effect I see it as the analysis of that which I always called The Question of The Law As you know I am there and you are there We will return here when we have something to conclude I imagine Should Pius XI have known Hitler Apart from my earlier answer you know that Hitlerism was considered anti Christian up to this March 1933 point The ecclesiatical German Hierarchy s refusal of the sacraments to even those who followed Hitler and the Nazis is the proof The timeline gave you the actual date of change and certainly alerted you to this volte face By smingtings McC I took you more seriously than this all There was I thinking you understood and that yet you could see justification Seems to me yon Wyss there is tougher than you are The world if not the payee bankers of Digiwiki here owe you a debt of gratitude I m costing them a few more bucks and you are getting me to do so Evidently Str1977 is trying to either get himself or someone else elected he has gone so quiet Seems Str cares more for the CDU ex centre Party German Tories rightists than he does for his avowed well I ll stop speculating If I were the CDF I would have been watching my pope s pages I d have copped on after that conference I mentioned to Jimbo It shows a lax attitude Listen you end it anytime you like for yourself I am not doing what I do for you or for Str1977 You can walk away anytime just be sure to take my Rfc with you please I don t understand why you would open yourself to all the potential comment when you don t actually take all this seriously Ever since you didn t get a rapid summary and then asked the double effect question you have just dug a greater pit Strange but never mind it makes no difference to me whether you guys react or not as this is as always the Question of The Law