I think the only people who benefit from that are the lawyers.
Oh, that's right.
I work for a law firm
I, I'm serious.
And I think that the lawyers have caused a lot of the problems that exist in the in the criminal system today. With plea bargaining.
Right.
You know, if someone is
Well plea plea bargaining is a different story.
Well.
Plea bargaining is something completely different.
That, that actually prevents trials. Or at least speeds them up.
Well, I know.
That's what I'm saying.
But I think a lot of, all of the whole criminal system is messed up in, in that regard.
I mean, you know, people who commit, uh, crimes that they,
I don't know how it works exactly
but  you know, they get lesser sentences
Right.
and I understand that the jails are full of people, you know, uh  and that they have to do something.
Right.
But, I think that the reason they are full is because they know that they can get away with it.
Huh.
you know what I'm saying?
That we don't have, uh, well a lot of states don't have capital punishment.
Right.
And, uh I, I think they should.
We do
I, and I think if a person is guilty of taking someone's life and like you say, it's, it's, there's no doubt whatsoever. Like drunk drivers that kill people
and, uh, you know, all
Right.
they, they're caught dead to rights.
I, I just think that that's, they've, they've taken a life
and if, they should pay for it with their life.
Right.
When you're saying as far as the appeal, uh, procedure was concerned.
Yeah.
We just have the case,
I'm, I'm sure you've probably heard of Marion Berry.
Uh-huh.
Uh, his last appeal was, was denied two days before his sentence was up
Oh, really.
So, I mean, his appeal was denied
and two days later he got out of jail For cocaine possession.
It, uh,
Yeah.
But, uh, that was absurd
There is never, there was no reason  the appeal process should have dragged on that long for a six month sentence.
I know that, that
Uh-huh.
And, I don't know.
Uh, what would you do to change it? To make it better?
Well, uh, the, the only I can, I you know,
the, appeal procedure is the only thing I can possibly think of.
Uh, like I said, as far as removing of the jury and having the judge sentence, that's absurd.
There's no way that could work.
Oh, yeah.
I, I, I don't agree with that at all.
Uh, but,
Imagine the guilt that person would have.
I mean  burned out.
Oh, exactly.
There's  there's no possible way that you could, uh, you know, feel good about yourself.
Exactly.
Right.
If you had to do something like that, day after day.
No one would want the job
No.
Not really.
Uh, and, you know, like I said, the, you know, everyone has their opinions about every case.
Well, do you think people should have a trial is they're caught dead to rights like,
Oh yeah.
I, I feel that everyone is, everyone is, uh, entitled to a trial by jury.
That, that, that right
I mean, supposing I come up to you and I just point blank kill you.
Well, I mean, were there witnesses?
In other words you're saying that, you have to find out whether it's premeditated or what the circumstances were.
Right.
Right.
That you can't, you can't remove the jury regardless of the case.
Yeah.
I mean you could have fifty people in audience watching a murder take place
Yeah.
and you, you'd still, there's still mitigating circumstances
Well, I, I,
Okay, Mary.
Yes.
Um, the, uh, the latest one I've seen, uh, had to do with a, uh, uh, the, uh, basically a manhunt, um,
and it was, uh, it was called MANHUNTER, actually.
Uh, the, uh, the guy, uh, apparently had a, a, mental disfunction in which he needed to go out and just slay people. Uh, just, uh, kill them with, with as much blood and, and guts as possible.
Oh, how awful
It was true, it was truly awful.
It was not one that I picked,
but, uh, uh, it, it did show some, some, uh, some interesting things about the F B I
because they were the, the, uh, the characters trying, trying to get him were F B I people
and, uh, uh, of the, of the few good things that were in it, it did show, uh, a lot about the F B I. About the training, and, and how they go through training and how they try to, to develop, uh, uh, a mental picture of who they're looking for before they go out and do it and all the different ways they go about doing that.
And it was, uh, uh, it was pretty telling about the, the, the F B I and their procedures.
I wonder how truthful all of that was or whether there was fiction.
Yeah,
I, I imagine a lot of it had to be fictional just to keep the F B I, uh, going, I guess.
Yeah,
well, they keep it rather secretive,
yes
Yeah,
yeah.
Well the most recent movie I saw, uh, I'm afraid was, uh,
well two, two of them actually.
Uh, the RAIN MAN was one.
Oh that was great one.
Wasn't that fabulous,
and, and DRIVING MISS DAISY.
Oh, I loved it.
You know, I haven't seen that one yet,
and I need to go see it.
Oh, you need to see that.
Yeah.
That is the most heart rendering story of relationships between two people. Two diametrically opposed people from the stand point that one was Jewish and one was black
Uh-huh.
and this all took place in the South.
Oh my.
And, uh, normally never the twain shall meet.
You bet, especially in the South.
Yes,
right,
and, um, uh, it, it really was a fantastic movie.
The acting was phenomenal.
Well as, it, as I recall it got some Academy Awards, didn't it.
Oh yes,
Jessica Tandy won best actress
and, uh,
Oh yeah,
that's right.
It, it might have one best picture, too.
Yes
it did,
yes
it did.
Yeah.
Just as RAIN MAN, uh, with Dustin Hoffman, uh, that, that was tremendous and Tom Cruise.
That was,
yeah,
I, I think it was more a lesson for Tom Cruise than anything else in terms of, uh, of how to act from Dustin Hoffman,
but, uh.
Yes,
uh, oh, that was, that was, uh, what the, much of the hype was that Tom Cruise learned so much from Dustin Hoffman.
Yeah,
it must have been great just being with him on, on a daily basis and seeing how he prepares for his, for his lines and all that stuff.
Yeah
and a good bit of that was filmed right in Cincinnati. Which is just forty-five miles from, from where I am, where I actually live in a suburb of Dayton.
Oh.
Is, is the Kmart there?
Oh, we do have Kmart here,
you better believe it.
Isn't there a Kmart everywhere?
That was, that was so funny,
he had to,
or was it Kmart.
Yes.
He had to buy his underwear at Kmart.
Right,
right
yeah.
That was hilarious.
The, the, I guess the, the first, the first, uh, scene in that movie that really got my attention, uh, concerning the, the disease and all that was when he, uh, dropped the, the, uh, the toothpicks,
Oh yes.
and he was able to count the number of toothpicks just by a mental image.
Yes,
yes.
Unbelievable.
Well, you know there are people, uh, referred to as savants also, uh, who can do most phenomenal things
Yeah.
and everyone feels they are totally retarded.
Yeah,
because that's the way they, they might seem outwardly,
That's right.
but, boy there's a lots going on in there
It's amazing
Yeah,
yeah
and I, the, the, I think the, the best thing about RAINMAN was the, uh, the way that they put together the, the real awfulness of the, of the, of the disease, only,
Yes.
an, and then they balanced it with the wonderfulness of it, you know,
and, and, and you need to, to work with it, uh, you know, certainly on, on a daily basis but then then again work with it toward a good end. Not, not toward winning in Las Vegas, for example.
Yes
and the,
Right,
well the warmth that developed between them
and again it, I think was a picture of relationships.
Yeah.
Again the relationship, uh, between the two, uh, that, uh, never would have occurred, uh, by accident.
Right,
right.
I was, uh, I was so impressed with that movie
I saw it three times.
Did you.
I can, I can tell you, oh, so much about that movie, just because it, it really rang, uh, rang a lot of my, uh, my personal background.
I, I have a, a brother myself that's, that's older
and, uh, he's not, you know,
nothing, nothing, of course, serious is wrong with him
but, uh, but we have gone through these, these lapses of, of a relationship, somewhat, sometimes,
Yes.
and then, you know, uh, for, for, for no real, you know, direct reason, I guess, uh, we, we get into, uh, uh, a really good relationship for a while and then, you know, back and forth
so I, I was really able to, to relate to the, the relationship aspect of the movie between the brothers.
That was neat.
Uh-huh.
Well that's tremendous,
that, it's good because it does make you think, about your own family.
Yeah,
a lot.
And see it did bring out a lot of thoughts between you and your brother.
Uh-huh.
No question,
he, the, he was, he's one of these guys though that doesn't really like to go see movies like that.
He likes the bang them up and shoot them up things.
Uh-huh
And, and, uh, it, it was like pulling teeth to go get him to, to see it
but, uh, oh boy. He was, uh, uh, he, he gave the, the best response that I've heard him give of this type of movie for RAIN MAN.
I mean he certainly didn't,
he only saw it one time,
and he didn't go back for more,
but, uh, he, he said he enjoyed it
and, and,
Well he at least saw it one time
Yeah,
yeah,
and, and he really,
I don't know,
he, he's kind of a Dustin Hoffman fan anyway.
But he but before he saw the movie he was like disappointed that Dustin Hoffman would do this
I'm like, oh, come on.
Just think of what a phenomenal actor Dustin Hoffman is.
Yeah.
He will do that, to research it and to be able to mimic a person, uh, uh, with the kinds of problems that he had.
And to make it believable.
Yes.
I mean I was, I was believing it,
I don't know about any body else
but I was, it was great.
Well, I'm sure everybody that saw it was believing it right along with them.
He did great.
Well it's just, uh, been delightful talking with you.
Yeah,
yeah,
you take care up there
and, uh, let's hear it for the summertime.
Absolutely,
I'm ready for it,
but they're predicting some more snow for our direction.
No,
oh no.
Oh well, take care.
Take care now.
Bye, bye.
Bye, bye.
Where do you get most of your news?
I watch the MACNEIL LEHRER news hour,
and I subscribe to the paper on the weekends.
Where, where are you?
I'm in Dallas.
Oh, yeah.
Are you in Dallas also?
No,
I'm in San Antonio.
Oh, really,
okay.
I get my news from a combination of sources.
I take the paper every day
Uh-huh.
and I read it on the way in to work on the, in a carpool.
Oh, really.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, and I watch the, uh, actually I watch the morning news before I leave for work.
And then, you know, usually over lunch, there'll be a big topic of conversation on something from the news.
Uh-huh.
I normally find that uh, I'm probably the most, um, news hungry of my friends,
so I don't, we don't normally talk about the news at lunch.
I, I find that I have to only subscribe to the paper on the weekend, simply because I used to get it during the week
Uh-huh.
but, um, I would always end up arriving at work late, because I would always end up skimming the headlines, spending too much time, reading it in the morning.
Yeah.
So I have to cut myself down to the weekend, plus after work.
Um, the MACNEIL LEHRER news hour is on public television
Uh-huh.
and I enjoy that quite a bit.
Yeah.
Um, one of the women that I work with, her husband is Iranian.
Uh-huh.
So here lately with all the Middle Eastern news we've had some very interesting conversations over lunch.
I will admit I work with, uh, someone who's Iranian,
and he definitely has a very different slant on the news.
Uh-huh.
He's very, very skeptical of the news media,
and I will admit I'm reasonably skeptical also.
But he's, I don't know, uh, he's much, much more so.
It's sort of interesting though, because he does bring a, a much, um, different perspective with all the Gulf goings on, um.
He was always speaking in terms of, you know, American imperialism reasserting itself.
Um, I suppose it's a different attitude that we normally don't hear in the country.
Uh-huh
Well I, I, uh, I like the print news much better than the television news because television news tends to sensationalize.
Uh-huh.
True, um,
the,
I understand that the MacNeil Lehrer probably doesn't.
They, um, tend to spend quite a bit of time on one story.
Uh-huh.
They will have maybe two or three main stories and just spend a very large amount of time.
Sort of like the, uh, what is that, A B C's NIGHTLINE.
Uh-huh.
Well, I guess they only normally stick with just the one, um, story.
But they, they can do a much better job since they don't have to chop it into little two minute stories.
They don't report on every murder and shooting that happened in, in every little town.
No,
no.
It's very much national interest news.
Yeah.
A lot of times they end up, um, with these panels of experts
and they go back and forth, where everyone's giving some opinions
and sometimes that,
I don't know the value of that, because I saw plenty of jokes and, and, um, oh, editorial cartoons about all the retired generals, making a living during the, the Gulf War.
I've been getting a kick out of those lately.
Uh-huh.
Although, um
I'm only twenty-five,
so I've never actually been through a period of war
Uh-huh.
and I don't know anyone in the military
and I don't have a lot of background knowledge in, uh, military strategy and, and weaponry, and, and all that kind of stuff.
And I thought the generals were very interesting.
Now when they started to speculate, I, I saw that for what is was, and thought all of these guys don't know what's going on.
Uh-huh.
But I thought they were interesting,
and, and they shed some light on what was going on for me.
I will admit it's interesting.
I'm twenty-six.
So I don't have any more experience in that than you.
Um, it, it, it was very interesting that it seemed like some of the commentators had their axe to grind, you know,
there were some that were screaming for air power,
there were some that were saying the air power wasn't going to do it.
Uh-huh.
And they seemed to mold the events to their view of the world, which I suppose just about everyone does,
but these guys had a, a, uh, national soap box to stand on and, and express this view.
You know, one of the best television news shows that I saw during the war was a show on a Saturday morning on A B C,
and it was for children
Uh-huh.
and it was hosted by Peter Jennings,
and it was so interesting because they were relating the war to these children in their studio,
and they also had children calling in live from all over the country and asking questions.
And they, they had all their correspondents in the different areas, in Saudi Arabia, and Israel, and, and all.
They had them all, uh, on,
I don't know what you'd call it other than on line.
They had them all on hold
Uh-huh.
and if a child asked a question that the person in Jerusalem could best answer, they would cut to that person,
and that person would answer the question.
It was just very informative and interesting,
and, uh, I was real impressed at how A B C handled, uh, translating, the war for children.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
I didn't see anything like that, although I did, uh,
I guess one thing that I found sort of interesting,
this is getting a little off the topic,
but there was a, a, a big push with the local T V stations to have little hot lines with counselors to, to help parents learn how to talk about their war with their children.
Uh-huh.
I thought that was a really unusual thing.
And our local H E B stores here,
I don't know if it's H E B statewide or whatever,
but they have videos that, uh,
I don't know if they still have them,
but they were free rental, videos, that had something to do with the war.
Uh-huh.
Uh, it was,
with the children's aspect?
Right.
It was something for children, that they, they had several advertisements on television pushing parents going and, uh, getting the video and watching it with their children and discussing it and that kind of thing.
Uh-huh.
I suppose that is a valuable service.
Again not having, uh, lived through another war, I don't know if that's a common thing that people thought of,
or if that was a new concern with people.
Well back during the Viet Nam conflict that no one will, will have the guts enough to call a real war
Uh-huh.
uh, the, that type of technology just wasn't at people's disposal.
That's true.
That's true.
So I don't think there's ever been a war that's been so thoroughly covered by the news.
And spot in the probably more importantly, one that lasted short enough that, that people's interest didn't flag too badly.
Yeah.
I tell you what,
the first three days, I was glued to the television.
I will admit the same thing.
And I, would come home and flip on MacNeil Lehrer
And I,
and they would run these extended two, three hour versions of the program
Yeah.
and I, I was just, I was horrified and fascinated by what I was seeing.
I tell you what.
The uh, the war spot in
let's see, was it a Wednesday or Thursday?
Must have been Thursday, uh,
and Friday night I was, I stayed up until two o'clock in the morning, sitting, right dead center in front of my television just watching practically with my mouth hanging open.
Uh-huh.
Because I was watching C N N,
and they would, they would switch back to one of their Israel bureaus,
and the people would be standing there in gas masks,
and you'd be hearing the sirens,
and it was just,
I was amazed.
Uh-huh.
I, I didn't have that experience.
I, I don't have cable
Oh.
so I, I'm pretty much limited to P B S, which I thought, I thought they did a very good job.
Uh-huh.
Um, I've got one question for you.
I you say you take the newspaper.
Uh-huh.
Um, I, I found the newspaper situation in Dallas very interesting.
We've got the one fairly, well, relatively weaker paper, the TIMES HERALD, and then the MORNING NEWS, which has a very strong subscription.
Uh-huh.
Does San Antonio
you said San Antonio, right?
Uh-huh.
Do you have just one paper,
or do you have several?
No.
There are two,
and they're pretty close.
Uh, the one that I picked is more similar in format to the newspaper,
I grew up near Houston
Uh-huh.
and there are two major newspapers there that run pretty much neck and neck,
and the one I picked here had the same format as the one that my parents took as I was growing up. I mean, the same type of typeface on the headline and that kind of stuff.
Uh-huh.
It's piddly stuff to pick a newspaper over,
and I enjoy,
the comics are better in this newspaper.
This newspaper has the far side and the comics that I enjoy
and the other one has some weird ones that I've never heard of.
So,
I, I actually take both newspapers on the weekends.
Do you?
I figure I'm only taking on the weekend,
and I can afford that.
Yeah.
I, I find the news reporting in the MORNING NEWS to be better,
but I sort of have a liberal political slant,
and the MORNING NEWS just has an incredibly conservative editorial, um, outlook.
And my, My fiancee takes probably six Sunday papers.
I get the TIMES HERALD just to balance that out a little bit.
He takes both San Antonio papers, an Austin paper, both Houston papers,
I guess he takes seven, the San Marcos paper and the New Braunsfel paper,
but he's a football coach at Southwest Texas State University,
so he's getting all the sports sections.
Uh-huh.
And, so, you know, he has these stacks of Sunday newspapers that go unread ...
I guess I don't really have a problem with capital punishment.
I'm not really sure what the exact, uh, specifications are for Texas.
I know that they, uh, have capital punishment for certain crimes,
and that's probably the way I feel about it is, is, uh, it kind of depends on the crime that's committed.
My belief all my life, I guess, has been that, that if you take someone else's life, then you automatically giving up, uh, yours in place of it
But I don't,
seems to be a lot of controversy about that
Yeah.
Uh, uh, I tend to agree with you, uh, you know,
probably pretty similar views on it,
but that's, that's one of the things I don't, don't understand is, is so much of the controversy
because, uh, you know, I, I do also, myself, believe in capital punishment, uh,
uh, you know, it, it really irks me to see so much effort put into preventing someone being put to death by the State when they so callously and usually so, you know, without even thinking or without any concern, uh, you know, end somebody else's life, and in a lot of cases several people's lives.
That's true
I guess, well, there's, there's probably two or three different types of, of views as far as the controversy goes.
I can see where if a life was taken by accident or, uh, I don't know what you'd call it, not premeditated or, I guess primarily by accident, uh, there may be cases where the death penalty is not called for,
but I lean towards, if it's premeditated or if it's, uh, kind of a habitual or, or a habit that, uh, a tendency that people, uh, may get into, then I guess I don't really have a problem with it
Oh, yeah.
Yeah,
that's, that's kind of the way I feel.
If, if you've got a guy who's, who's been to trial and has been in and out of jail, you know, basically a, a three time loser for the twelfth time, you know, and he goes out and kills somebody, he's not going to be reformed,
he's not going to get any better, you know,
it's, it's not going to, it's just not going to get any better.
And, and the only thing, you know,
a lot of people have the opinion that, you know, don't, don't have capital punishment,
but give them life in jail
and, you know, I could go along with that, if, if I could be assured that it would be their natural life in jail and not parole after ten, or twelve years.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I think that's what aggravates a lot of people, is somebody does get a life sentence in place of the death penalty,
and they wind up back on the streets after five years or six years or like the kid on the news tonight out in Mesquite who was out in six months.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
it's, it's just our criminal system is just so, I guess, overloaded,
but the, you know, the, the problem is not so much with the prison system, you know,
I mean, because the, the cops are out there doing their job enforcing the laws,
and the prison system are just, you know,
they're trying to cope with them,
but you know, the thing about capital punishment I, you know,
a lot of people don't think it would be a deterrent, uh, to, to future crime,
and the way it is now, it's not.
No.
Because, you know, you,
if like
the State of Texas, for example, may, uh, you know, may execute somebody twice a year.
You know, that's, that's no kind of deterrent because we, we've got literally hundreds of people on death row, and, and many of them who have been there for literally for ten or fifteen years on death row,
Right.
and that's, that's certainly no kind of deterrent,
and I would tend to agree with anybody who says right now that it, it's not a terrent, a deterrent, because it's not.
No,
it's not.
You think of your chances of getting the death penalty after uh, committing a crime are really pretty slim right now.
And you can, probably spend, uh, a lot of time, uh, or maybe eventually, uh, just waiting it out,
Oh, yeah.
Uh-huh.
and that's where a lot of aggravation comes, I think, is, is, uh, these guys spend so much time in the appeal process or just in the waiting process,
Uh-huh.
they may spend years,
and, you know, the last I heard it was costing ten, twenty, thirty thousand dollars a year, uh, to keep these guys waiting.
Yeah,
it, it's amazing.
There's, uh, there's a girl I work with, our secretary, as a matter of fact,
her, her father was murdered, her father and three other guys up here in Sherman.
And the, uh, the guy, that they tried and convicted and sentenced him to death, you know, he's been on death row for like eight years.
Yeah.
And, you know, this, this was her father, uh, you know, that, that got killed, you know, just cold-blooded murder, him and three other people,
and, but still, for some reason, you know, this, this guy's sentence has not been carried out, you know,
he's sitting on death row for eight years after having killed four people,
and the State still can't bring itself to, to execute, this guy.
To, yeah, to carry it out.
It sort of takes the justice out of the justice system.
It does,
it really does, you know.
She, and they have to go back, uh,
occasionally, you know, she has to write letters to the parole board and, you know, lawyers,
and just, just ever so often she mentions, well, she's got to do something else, you know, write another letter, or do something.
Yeah.
It's just,
It should be over and done with.
Yeah,
yeah,
you know, she should be getting on with her life, you know, getting, getting that part behind her,
but yet, it's, it's kind of tied to her the way it is now.
Yeah,
it is.
And she winds up being a, a victim, day after day after day.
Yeah.
Yeah,
right.
A victim,
not only of, indirectly of the crime, but also indirectly by that, indirect involvement.
Right.
It's just, it's, it's ridiculous.
She, She's an emotional victim
Yeah.
Yeah,
it, it's terrible, you know
and,
And, you know, the, like you say, the cops are out doing the work day by day have got to have a lot of frustration when they see all their work, basically go out the window.
Yeah.
Oh, that,
oh, man, I, I couldn't be a cop for that, for that very reason, you know, because they do.
The, the criminal gets right back out
and, you know, the cop's just got to go back and, and do his thing all over again, because so many of the crimes are, are done by repeat offenders.
Yes,
they are.
It's,
Well, that's about five minutes,
so unless you've got something else, well,
Yeah.
No
It's a pleasure talking with you.
All right,
Ron, we'll see you later.
Okeydoke,
good-bye.
Bye-bye.
Okay.
Tell me about your home.
Well, it's an older home.
It was made back in the early sixties.
It's a pier beam house.
Huh-uh.
Got three bedrooms, one bath and that just makes me scream.
That's pretty tough
What area do you live in?
I live in Houston.
Oh, okay.
I see.
Is that pretty typical for your area?
Well, for the neighborhood I'm in,
yeah,
Yeah.
This is one of the more established neighborhoods,
Huh-uh.
That sounds real interesting.
I live in a suburb of Dallas
and, uh, I live in the basic three bedroom, two bath home.
So, at least, I have two bathrooms.
That's not so bad,
but, uh, it's pretty typical for the area, as well.
Uh, I've always been interested in older homes, personally.
So, I think you can end up doing more with them, it seems like.
What about yard space?
Do you have lot of, a big lot, or anything like that?
The whole lot I'm sitting on is roughly half an acre.
Oh, I see.
About half of that, about a quarter acre of that, I've got a garden.
Huh-uh.
Oh, that's nice.
Because I have just like a very small, you know, those basic tract houses, like that.
We have a very small yard
and, um, I do have garden,
but it's extremely small,
but, uh, it seems like, though, for your area that, that is sort of different.
In a big city like that most houses, I would think, would be sort of like what we live in. Just a you know, basic tract house.
Well, in the, uh, newer neighborhoods and development communities, the houses are so close together,
Yeah.
if your neighbor is having an argument you can here it blow for blow.
That's exactly right.
That's the way we are.
We have, uh, one thing we have that we really enjoy here, is we have a hot tub in the back.
So we have, we have quite a few parties,
and uh, seems like everyone that lives around us, ends up, you know, hearing every conversation that goes on outside with everyone.
So, uh, that's true
that is one thing that I don't enjoy about it, is the houses are too close together.
But, uh, you know, it's fine for now,
hopefully, eventually, we'll move in a larger home.
The only thing that I don't like also is the rooms are so small.
You know, it's very difficult to arrange furniture and things like that,
so.
Are your rooms in your house bigger since it's a sixties home?
Because it seems like then, that they built the homes much larger
is that true?
Yeah.
And they've got better closet space.
Yeah.
new houses that I've seen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really it.
That's a plus.
At least we do have like three walk-in closets here.
So that's, that's maybe not so typical,
but, uh,
It helps a bunch.
Yeah.
It really does, except when you have to fill them up
and then you get those Visa bills in.
And
Yeah.
So anyway, um, anything else about the area, about, um,
you know, can you compare yourself to any thing around there.
Most of the neighborhood I'm in is pretty typical.
This whole neighborhood was built between sixty and sixty-five.
Yeah.
So it's, it's,
Everybody has got a pretty good size yard,
Yeah.
I mean, I got probably the biggest,
if not the biggest yard, I've got pretty close to it,  in the entire neighborhood.
Yeah.
That's nice.
That is nice.
But, you know, too, the only bad thing, too, is that then you have to keep up, you know,
you have to,  the yard to deal with
Well, I,  I enjoy that though.
and,
Do you.
You must have more time than, than I have.
I'm sitting out here right now.
We had this terrible rain
and I'm looking at the yard and seeing how tall the grass has gotten
and it seems like
now that's, that's,
I almost wish I was in an apartment or something. You know,
It's rained
Yeah.
Well, um, I don't know, do we just terminate this or do you have to talk for a certain amount of time?
Do you know?
No,
we can,
after you go to somewhere between five and ten minutes, they'll get a little master recording  this.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, can you tell me anything else about the house
Are you working on it?
I mean, do people around that area seem to do a lot of renovation?
Yeah.
This entire neighborhood, everybody keeps the places up real nice.
Yeah.
That's, that's nice.
Yeah,
the town that I came from is, uh, is a, uh, older town,
it like,
the typical, the typical homes there are like, you know, early nineteen hundreds late eighteen hundreds,
Wow.
and I renovated a house there
and that was so much fun.
I mean, there, if you don't live in a house that's at least seventy-five to hundred years old, you know, you're just nobody, practically
And that was really, that was a good experience for me to learn a lot of discipline
and, uh, was considered typical for that area.
So, uh, it was quite a change for me to come to a house like that now that's just, you know, a very square little box
and, you know, there's not a whole lot you can do with it.
But, uh, anyway,
Living in the city has some advantages.
Yeah.
That's true.
If given the choice, I'm getting out.
Oh, really.
Well, I have lived in a small town for, you know,
this, this town was like less than ten thousand people
and it was about sixty miles south of Dallas.
And, you know, I didn't move out of there until I was, you know, twenty-seven
and that was just, you know,
so I love the big city
You know, I had lived in a rural area for, for so long
so I've enjoyed it,
but, uh, it can, it can get kind of tough.
Its like a rat race sometimes.
That's just something I'll never adapt to.
I don't, I don't want to be a part of the rat race.
I want to be basically just kind of left alone.
Yeah
If I want to sit around and mess with my garden, I'll mess with my garden,
Yeah.
if I want to work in the flower beds,
Yeah.
It sounds like you enjoy working outside as well.
I, I,
Very much.
yeah.
I really do enjoy that.
But I haven't planted anything yet
or, you know, I usually have gotten flowers coming out the
but I, I haven't done that, yet.
I've had finals this week.
So, uh,  you know, I'm just kind of trying to, trying to stick in with that,
Huh-uh.
but, uh, since that's over with now, maybe I can, I can get this yard in shape.
Do you do a lot of gardening?
Uh, landscaping is more, than the gardening,
Yeah.
the I've got my beans, peas,
Yeah.
I've got some onions out,  tomatoes,
Yeah.
I'm not real sure what they're going to do this year.
I never have much luck with tomatoes.
I do plant a lot of beans, because it seems like, the, uh, bugs get on them so easily
and I have a real problem with anything like pesticides or anything like that,
so, the only thing that I use is soap.
I water, you know, spray the plants, because they say, supposedly, that will keep the bugs off them.
But, uh, I don't have luck with that tomato plant,
so I hate to spray them with anything.
Um, what do you do?
Do you have any tips you could give me?
Um, my favorite one is putting on the, um, tomato plant is to put, uh, dust,
Yeah.
Yeah.
and that stuff has been around since the beginning of time,
That's true.
That's true.
My dad is a farmer
so, I've heard him talk about that forever.
I guess it works,
but, um, you have to really wash your vegetables after that
so it won't make you sick.
Let's see what else do you do to your house?
Well, I've done some rewiring on it.
Yeah.
Eventually, if we stay here, I'm going to have to rewire the entire house.
Oh, really.
Do you plan on like adding any rooms or,
you have enough space
you could probably do that.
Or is it,
I've talked about adding at least one more room and definitely adding another bath on.
Yeah
I would think so if you only have one bathroom for three bedrooms,
that's tough.
Do you not, like, have a half bath.
Not even a half bath.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's rough.
The house that I used to live in had one bath and a half.
And that was even just with two people.
That was a pain.
The only thing that saves it, with the schedule I work and the schedule my wife works, we're getting ready to go to work at totally different times. So that. It's not like we're tripping over each other in the morning.
That's good.
Really.
That could account for a lot of marital problems I think
You get to know each other very well if you have to share a bathroom
It doesn't work if you're trying to shave and she's trying to put her eyeliner on
and,  you're both fighting over the mirror.
No.
That's right.
It does not make for a happy situation.
That's true.
Well, do you have any children?
I've got one.
One child.
And they enjoy where they're living?
We'll,
he's nine months old.
Oh, so he doesn't know, right.
I guess, he's a big help out in your garden.
Right.
He likes to dig around a little bit.
His mother comes in and says, why did you let him play in the dirt,
I guess he's enjoying himself.
That's right.
It's healthy,
why not.
Yeah.
He was eating the dirt,
I wouldn't worry about it.
No.
It won't hurt them.
I was a big dirt eater, supposedly, when I was a child
and I turned out okay
so, don't worry about it.
Just let him enjoy himself
So you think that you want to move away from the big city, uh?
Well, that's what I've always,
I was raised up in a town that was about ten thousand people.
Yeah.
So you're just the opposite from me.
You want to go back to that, uh,
After we got married we moved, ended up moving to the Houston area.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So are you from Texas?
Yeah.
You are.
So it's not, you know,
that's true
Houston, in itself, is a pretty tough place.
Okay,
I'm back on.
Okay.
Um, you say you watch evenings mostly?
I watch evenings because I work all day.
I used to watch daytimes.
Uh-huh.
Um, mainly like ALL MY CHILDREN, that kind of thing.
Oh, so ...
And then sometimes OPRAH and sometimes DONAHUE,
but now it's mainly evenings.
Do you have any that you like well enough that you tape them when you're not going to be there?
Yes.
Which ones?
I tape THIRTY SOMETHING, and L A LAW.
Oh.
Those are the two I like the best.
Oh, two they're going to change.
Well, one they're taking,   off.
I know.
It's going to be history, I know.
I don't know what's going to
yeah,
we like L A LAW.
Uh-huh.
We don't watch THIRTY SOMETHING,
but that's kind of young for us.
My husband and I are grandparents.
Oh, well. Well ...
So we don't watch, uh, that type of show,
but we like L A LAW.
We like, that.
Uh-huh.
We're just,
I'm sorry they're breaking the team up, because we liked all the ones that were on there.
I know.
I'm amazed.
I'm not sure I like the new ones too much.
Huh-uh.
I'm surprised that, I was surprised at the ending of, you know, with all the funny things happening and different things.
I just wonder if, if, uh, they just want to go on to other projects and not be stuck in this show, since it's gone on for so long,
it looks like, it looks like it might be one of these seven or eight year run things. Where you kind of can spend your whole career on one show.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I know.
Of course, I guess that's not bad.
Alan Alda did it on MASH.
I know.
Isn't that funny?
It hasn't hurt him at all.
So do you, do you mostly like this type of like a story type of thing that lasts an hour?
Oh, I don't usually like stuff that continues.
That's why I'm surprised I like those two shows, because usually I like, you know, stuff that just ends sort of, that you just, you don't have to, have watched, you know.
In one hour, like QUANTUM LEAP.
Yeah.
I mean, you don't have to ...
That's one of our favorites
Yeah.
You don't have to have watched it last week in order to follow,
so, you know, I usually don't like that.
Right,
which they do at the beginning of the season, to grab your attention. You know,
Uh-huh.
that's always a bummer too.
I know.
Sometimes it's better just to tape record both of them and then watch it all in one.
Uh-huh.
We, we do that sometimes.
I, I guess I'm, I'm not into real heavy stuff.
L A LAW is about the heaviest thing I watch.
I, I'll, mostly I'm into it for relaxation,
Yeah.
so I like things like GOLDEN GIRLS or CHEERS
or, uh, Monday night is real good with me, you know, MAJOR DAD and, and, uh, NORTHERN EXPOSURE and, and, uh,
oh, what's that one with Burt Reynolds?
That type of show is what we what, uh, we watch.
Uh-huh.
We generally just stay on one channel all, for all of Monday night, just to watch those.
Just some of the times they're continued,
but mostly they're just little vignettes.
A new one we found we really like is that DINOSAURS.
Have you seen that?
Huh-uh.
That is, it's, it's really funny.
They use like animated,
it's not like a cartoon,
but it's like dummies and things, that are used,
Uh-huh.
and, uh, it's really, um,
and robots probably.
But there's always a, a moral to each story.
And what night is it on?
Well, we watched it,
the times we've seen it, it's been like on or, excuse me, Friday night.
Uh, but it's,
we've only seen it a couple of times.
But it, it's real,
the first one we saw, um, they were, it, it involved a tradition of when a person reaches seventy-five,
and I can't remember what day they call it,
but, but, uh, the son-in-laws get to throw the mother-in-laws when they're seventy five over a cliff
Oh, great.
Anyway Anyway, it, it goes on, you know,
and the son-in-law and mother-in-law are sniping at each other and all,
and then when it comes time for him to throw her over, well, the, the teenaged son the night before tried to save her by hiding her.
Oh.
And she said no,
you can't do, you know,
he ran her out, was running to in a wheelchair to hide her,
and she said, "You can't do that."
Huh.
"This is tradition.
This is what old people are supposed to be, thrown over the, the cliff."
And, uh, he said, "I don't understand."
It's, it's real funny that they give the teenagers the, as the one that questions, uh, the, what's going on.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, in the end of, uh, the son-in-law, when he did get the mother-in-law up to the cliff, uh, the the teenaged son throws himself in the way and says, "No, you can't do it," and then, and then, uh, "Oh, well, we've got to do it. It's tradition,"
and the son was, you know, "Why?"
And so, in, in the end he doesn't throw her over,
Uh-huh.
Oh, he doesn't.
and, of course, the town thinks he's just terrible, because that has been tradition for hundreds of years and he's broken it.
And then we saw one where this, there was a teenage, when a teenage boy comes into his manhood,
they call it the night of the howling, or something like that,
Uh-huh.
and they all go out and howl, you know
And, and the son refused to do it.
He, he did,
he thought it was not ...
So he didn't go howl?
No,
he wouldn't go howl,
so all the, all the people that worked with the father ostracized him
Oh, how funny.
It is.
It, it, it's, it's real interesting to watch the show,
and, and the relationship between the family is, is really now, now the mother-in-law lives in the house with them.
Huh.
So it's,
our, our grandson, our oldest grandson is the one that, that got us to watching it.
But it really is, it moves real fast.
It's a real short,
and there's always, like I say, a moral to it
and,
It's just a half hour,
or is it hour?
Well, half hour.
Oh.
That, that's all there is to it.
And, and, uh, they ...
There's not many half hour shows,
it seems like that,
Yeah,
it, it, they, they're trying to liken the, the father in there of the teenage son to like JACKIE GLEASON SHOW. Uh, the way he talks to his mother-in-law and so forth,
Uh-huh.
and I guess maybe there are some parts of that,
but I didn't really see that in there.
But what I've read about it, they talk about that.
But anyway, we've, we've enjoyed that,
and, and, uh, I guess mostly I, I like the news shows too, the news magazines, like SIXTY MINUTES or TWENTY, TWENTY or PRIME TIME LIVE or something like that, you know, all, all of those shows, if I can do it,
Yeah,
no,
I watch those if I,
but my husband likes to watch, um, old movies, especially war movies, or, or, uh, sports, which I'm not,
Oh, see, I like sports.
No,
I don't.
Well, I, I do, I like ice skating
and I like, uh, gymnastics, and some track and field,
Uh-huh.
but I, I,
and I'll watch snippets of baseball games
and I, I just don't have that much time to sit and watch the whole thing.
Uh-huh.
And I don't ever, no matter what's on, I don't ever just sit and watch T V.
I'm usually either doing dishes,
or I may be sewing,
or, you know, I always have, or letter writing,
I know.
or I may be working around in the room somehow,
but I don't, I don't ever just sit and,
I, that's something that comes from your old age, you know.
No,
I don't sit.
Idle hands are the devil's workshop
I know.
Who has time?
I don't have time to sit, I know.
No.
It's, it's, uh,
That's why I don't get to watch that much.
I mean, I, watch nine o'clock
Right.
I do okay, because the kids are all in bed,
but before that, I really, there's not much time.
Right.
Or like at six thirty I'll watch WHEEL OF FORTUNE or something like that.
Right,
well, our,
yeah,
if our if our grandchildren are with us, that's, they have to watch that.
We don't watch it unless they're here
Uh-huh.
No,
I like that.
No,
I'll watch, game show kind of stuff
But they, uh,
but, Yeah.
It's, it's, um, oh,
and, you know, the, the kids will get you started on stuff like AMERICA'S FUNNIEST HOME VIDEOS.
We've wound up sending in one.
That's something I didn't think that we'd ever do
Did you send one?
Yeah.
My oldest grandson pulling his tooth.
He's, he's, he wouldn't let us pull it,
How funny.
and I mean, it, it got to the point he was eating a pear here,
and he bit into it,
and it was just hanging by a thread.
And I, and I'd tell him, you know, it's getting ready to fall out,
and he walked around the house with his face down toward the floor and his mouth open, hoping it would because he wouldn't let anybody pull it.
And he he wound up pull,
So do you have P C
I have a personal computer at home.
It's an A T compatible.
I don't use it very much any more.
I used to use it quite a bit.
Uh-huh.
I also have a P C at work that I use as a terminal.
I do some P C stand alone work on it,
and I can transfer data back and forth between the P C and the main frame.
Uh-huh.
What about you?
Do you own a computer?
Um, well I sort of own a computer.
We have two P C at home,
but neither one do we really own. Um.
Are you leasing them?
No,
both of them are sort of work related,
and,
Loaners from work?
Yeah,
that's the nicer way, right.
Do you work for T I?
No,
no.
Um, I, actually I'm doing consulting right now because I just had a baby,
and my husband's working at Bell Labs,
but he's really from France,
and these computers actually are from France.
What brand are they?
One of them's a Compaq
Uh-huh.
it's a three eighty-six
I'm jealous.
and the other is actually a I B M P C compatible,
it's a three eighty-six,
I guess it's twenty-five,
yeah,
three eight six twenty-five C maybe
I don't know,
no we don't have the
we decided not to get the which is actually another loaner one too that we picked up for a consulting job that my husband was doing
and,
What kind of consulting do you do?
Um, well, I actually do some work, working at M I T and at NIST, National Institute of Standards and Technology in Washington,
Uh-huh.
and then I worked for Dragon Systems for a while.
What kind of work do you do when you're consulting?
Um, well, it depends,
it's very different in the different places,
but,
Is it programming related?
Yeah,
yeah.
Program related, research related,
and I work in the speech field,
and I do a lot metacoustic phonetics and looking at the acoustic characteristics of speech,
Uh-huh.
and I do that type of stuff typically for other people,
and we, like here we use the P C to do that.
Mostly I use it for writing papers and things like that.
Word processing.
Well, more, uh,
do you know Latek? Word text processing,
No I'm not familiar with that.
so I don't, I don't use, I mean,
you can call it word processing,
but I don't usually use a word processor to do it
Uh-huh
and we don't have too much standard software.
Like I haven't bought, we haven't really bought any commercially available software at all.
So we don't use it for things like our accounts and addresses and things like that.
We use it more for just writing programs when we need to or, um, doing research, looking at the speech signal and then doing writing, and also as a just as a terminal,
and we connect to other computers to read our net mail and things like that.
So, you've got, you've got a modem in it then.
Uh, neither one has a modem,
but we have a modem.
At home you have a modem that you can connect to each of them?
Neither one,
Right.
Uh, and so it's an external modem.
Yeah,
we have
I got, when I got mine I had an internal modem in it
Uh-huh.
I used it, uh, quite a bit when I was, uh, uh, looking at, uh, information on a large bulletin board sponsored by a newspaper in a, in Fort Worth
Uh-huh.
but, uh, went out of town for a while,
and, and sort of got off the, uh, bulletin board and off of my micro completely
Uh-huh.
and after a while the modem started making noises on its own without, uh, even without using it on the computer,
I could turn a computer on,
it'd start squawking.
So I finally opened up the box and took it out.
So that was it.
I think that's the thirty second warning.
Oh, I didn't hear it.
Do you hear, the, the beep in the background.
Yes.
Oh, that's a, an ambulance or something going on here, I think.
Okay.
Where, Where are you,
I haven't ever noticed the thirty second warning actually.
and, uh,
In Manhattan.
Are you at home now?
Yeah,
I'm at home.
So you've got a lot of traffic noise real close.
Uh-huh.
So it'd be interesting for the people that look at this signal I mean, because there's a lot of background noise that, you know, people can hear.
So it'll be interesting how much of it actually gets picked up.
Um, yeah,
and often times that,
I can't talk on can't do this much later than now, between sort of like six, five thirty and six thirty or something like that, because the traffic outside, they honk the horn so loud I can't even hear the phone call.
What time is it now where you are?
Uh, about twenty after four.
So you're an hour ahead of where I am.
I'm in Central Central time zone.
Okay,
yeah
we're Eastern.
And, um, what did, did you ever try using like Prodigy or any of those systems?
No,
I haven't done that.
Uh, I know someone who has,
and, and she's, uh, very, uh, pleased with it.
She told me some of the things you can do,
and it's just a, a very handy tool to have.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
and you can do a
it makes things very convenient.
You can save a lot of money, too. Certainly cut down on long distance charges if you, if that's what you have in mind.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
I've never tried using that,
I don't know too much about it.
What about,
have you, did you use commercially available software
or,
I have, I have used Lotus.
I have used, uh, Word Perfect
Uh-huh.
uh, I,
not heavy use.
I've used, uh, D Base
and, uh, I've used a substantial amount of shareware.
Um, I haven't done much Lotus work connected with my job.
I've been through three classes
Uh-huh.
and I have a great deal of respect for it.
Uh-huh.
Um, I haven't done much word processing work with my job.
I do some
Uh-huh.
and I,
and the D Base work I've done was strictly class related.
I've never used D Base, um,
but I've heard both good things and bad things about it.
Well, it's probably the granddaddy of most, uh, data base management systems.
Uh-huh.
It's got some pretty strong competitors.
Some of them have reviews that are better than D Base,
so, I, I think by now, it's a matter of, uh, personal taste.
Yeah,
people told me that it was sort of cumbersome to use.
I can understand that very easily.
I've used, I've had a class on, um, R Base and also in Paradox
Uh-huh.
and both of those seem very easy to use compared to D Base.
Uh-huh.
Do you think you D Base is more flexible or allows you to do more.
Or do you think the others are pretty much compatible these days?
Um, I wouldn't say compatible, but certainly comparable.
But, uh
yeah,
I didn't mean compatible,
I meant comparable.
My brain is going to mush.
Uh-huh.
And what do you work on at T I?
I'm a computer programmer on the I B M main frames.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I do, uh, mainly business data processing.
Uh-huh.
I also handle production support for the systems in my area of responsibility.
Uh-huh.
Um, sometimes I get called late at night at home because there's a production problem,
and that gives me the opportunity to, uh, come in to work and fix it, if I can't think of some thing to tell the trouble shooter while we're on the phone.
Right.
Um, I also, uh, handle most of the calls from our users and other programmers who need to find out something connected,
Okay.
Um, well I guess first of all I, I could have asked that before.
Do you have children?
No.
No.
Okay.
Because I, I didn't know if that would make a difference  in how you felt.
Yeah.
Um, what do you think about the proposal that all young Americans should spend a year or two,
I think it's a good idea.
I think everybody should, should, uh, put in their time so to speak for the, for the good of the, the nation and for the good of themselves.
Yeah.
I think it's, uh,
would everyone grow up and mature and, and realize what this country's all about.
I just, um,
I guess that's my, that's something that my family has always believed strongly in,
and, uh, I had opportunities in high school, to work in some programs, um
Did you?
something Oh!
and, and I agree with what you said that it's, uh, it benefits the person doing it  so much I don't think they realize
Uh-huh.
and I, uh, I, I think it gives you a better perspective, on life
and, uh, it gives you a little bit, uh, more a glimpse of the, the real world
and  and it would certainly help the country, too, uh.
Yeah.
Really
Yeah,
I think that's probably like, uh, quite a few things that, that the kids, uh, maybe not so much nowadays but used to  go through, you know,
Yeah.
they, just, they were, they did things for people, you know, for their communities, for their, their, uh, families, for their friends, where now, I'm not sure they really do.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, I think sometimes through groups and organizations, um,
my first, when I first thought of it, I thought it, uh, when they asked the question I thought, well that sounds wonderful.
And then, I wondered if people were unwilling
but, but I think even if you went in with a negative attitude I don't think it would stay negative very long.
Um, but I do know through some organized groups like Scouts and church um, they, do still have opportunities.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
that's probably true  You know
But, I, I think that's a small, uh, number could,
but even, even through those groups, do you think that they participate as much as maybe they used to?
No,
um, not since, um, not as much as I remember growing up.
And that was something, uh, I think in the fifties and sixties, um, seemed more common in the last two decades.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
I think that's probably true.
But,
I think it's probably more true, still in the, in the smaller communities then in the larger cities.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Where, uh, where abouts do you live?
What part of the country?
Well, I live in Richardson right now. Which is just,
Oh, okay.
We're in Plano
so we're not far apart.
Right.
Yeah,
okay.
One of the calls I'd gotten before was, uh, down to Austin
and, and I know, a friend of mine talked to someone in the midwest
so I know there is the possibility that it could be out of the area.
Yeah.
Gosh,
I hadn't even thought about it being out of the area
but you're right.
Yeah.
I grew up in a real small town in Florida.
Oh.
I mean a real small town
And, uh, I think it was just
of course it was back in the, in the fifties
and I think it was real prevalent back then.
I I think people thought more of others than they do now. You know, as far as doing things for them and, and then gaining benefits from it.
Yeah.
Well,
and maybe, uh, maybe this would be a way to get that feeling back. Um, if we've lost some of that
and it, it seems in the last decade or two, um, that's true,
maybe that's a way,
if, if young people had to do it um, maybe that would start the trend back because that's one of the things I always thought was a wonderful part of our country. Um,  is helping others
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
I do to.
I do to.
I'm not sure that, that today's kids would go for it though.
I think you would have to start younger.
Yeah.
I, I don't know how young you'd have to go
but I think by the time they're, oh, early teenagers anyway, I think it's too late now. At least around here.
Yeah,
I think, uh, I think it does help, um, even preschoolers, you know
they're, um, things even just starting around the home.  You know
Right.
little ones can do a little bit to help the family.
Uh-huh.
And, and just watching the parents do things too, um, it can start a pattern.
There's always something, no matter how young,
and then that helps develop that attitude.
Um, I guess I would really like to see this happen with families more.
You know, I think this is certainly a possible way, um, to handle it
but I wish,
that's something that I think that has been lost in families
and I think that's a good place to start again.
Yeah.
I think it has to start in the families first because if you don't do it for, for your own immediate family, you're sure not going to do it for anybody else.
Yeah.
And I do think, um, the schools,
if you're trying to do something, even with food drives
and, uh, sometimes what Richardson and Plano both,
I mean when you live in areas like that where there's so much they don't realize what a small percentage of the world that is.
Uh-huh.
I mean, that's, uh,
gosh I'm sure, not even one percent of the world is as fortunate as these areas
and, uh  it's,
That's probably true.
That's probably true.
I know our church youth group, uh, starts with projects young
but they have a high school group that works in the Appalachia  area every year.
Uh-huh.
They've done this for fourteen years now.
Oh, that's great.
Um, and it is, it's, uh,
and they've also see that there's, there's a different way of life and those families are really close.
Some of the things, that we talked about that were common in the fifties are still there
Uh-huh.
and, uh, it really,
every youth that's ever gone really has felt that their life has been changed
and it's changed their perspective.
And, and that's just the two weeks during, during the summer.
Uh-huh.
So, if two weeks, uh, could have that kind of effect I would  think, uh,
Well, that's, that's great.
I'm glad that there are still some areas that, that get the youth involved in that sort of thing.
Well that's,
Like I said, I think it does,
even a small amount of exposure can make a vast difference  in their attitudes
Yes.
Well
Well, I guess, um,
did you have anything else?
No,
no
I guess that's about all.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, I enjoyed talking with you.
Well, good talking with you.
And I hope you have a good evening.
You too.
Thanks.
Okay.
Bye,
bye.
Bye
Okay.
Do you, have you ever had to put your children in, child care, Mary Dell?
Oh yes.
I'm an old experienced hand.
I started back when it wasn't, stylish to do that at all.
My daughter that's seventeen now I worked even when she was a baby.
Uh-huh.
Oh.
And I had private care for both my daughters until they were two
and then I was really lucky to have put them in a, Methodist day school at Preston Hollow Methodist, right off  of Walnut Hill and Preston.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And it was a wonderful environment.
I, I just wish all kids, if they have to be put in day school, could have that kind of place
Uh-huh.
I see.
So, it worked well.
Oh.
How about you?
Well, I have, uh, a nine year old and a six year old
and neither one of them has ever been in in, uh, day care for the reason of, of me working
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
but, uh, they both went through preschool.
Yeah.
And, uh, we've just been real lucky  I think, anyway. To not,
Uh-huh.
It's not hard to find anything that's part-time.
So many of the churches have really strong  preschool and children's day out
Right,
like half day programs.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
but, it was a nightmare back when Cheryl was little
and this is one of the few churches that did it.
There were a couple downtown Dallas
but they were so, seemed, cold and impersonal,
I just couldn't hack it.
Uh-huh.
And what I liked about Preston Hollow is that the people that were there when Cheryl was two, which was fifteen years ago, many of them are still there today.
So there  was real continuity.
Oh.
She went back as a teenager
and these people that had changed her diapers when she was three were still there.
Oh, my gosh.
So, it, it was really neat.
But it was because they had a director that had always done it as a labor of love
and  she just kept good people and  real cheerful place, lots of arts and crafts,
Uh-huh.
Oh my goodness
and I'm really glad my kids had it because Plano schools do so little of that.  That if they hadn't had it before they hit first grade they were never going to have any art or music or any of the interpretive stuff.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
that is, uh, a big drawback I think in that, in the, uh, public schools out here. You know, to,
Uh-huh.
you're lucky to have an art teacher
and if you do you get them once a week or something, you know.
Or pay for it after school.
Our Emily's in the third grade over at Huffman
and they started a pilot program where we can pay private tuition so that they can take French and music and art
and   you know, I willingly did it
Oh is that right?
I had no idea.
but I thought, this makes me angry.
This is something that ought to be in the schools  rather than some of the other stuff they do.
Oh my goodness.
And with our budget cuts, I'm sure  that's not going to not going to change anytime soon.
Yeah.
Well that's the only way they're. Yeah, well, that's the only way they're going to be able to do it.
And parents who really want their kids to have any humanities are going to have to do that.
Oh my goodness.
So, in some ways I think the, the day schools do serve those purposes.
Yeah.
That's true.
Well even the preschools, you know they get so much of that in preschool
and then when they hit kindergarten, you know, it's like wham  Culture shock.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just,
Put the colors away
Yeah,
yeah.
Get the computers out
Which is too bad.
and, you know.
Uh-huh.
hard.
Uh-huh.
It's so difficult for them.
Um, did you have your children, did you say in home, in, in, private care,
was that in your home or in someone else's home?
Until they were two.
Yeah.
Yeah,
both times they were at our house.
Uh-huh.
So you were able to have somebody come there.
And that was hard too.
I, I lucked out with really good people both times
but I know so many people that are never able to find that
and I'd practically give my paycheck away to do it,
so
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you have a nanny
or did you have someone  that lived in with you?
Yeah.
Well no,
she didn't live with us.
Uh, the first one was an, elderly lady who was putting a, a daughter through nursing school  just purely on baby-sitting money.
Oh.
Oh my goodness.
And she kept Cheryl during the day and then did more baby-sitting at night.
Uh-huh.
And she was neat because she was like the grandmother that my kids never had  because both our parents are dead.
Yeah.
Oh.
So that, that was a plus from  that respect as well.
Oh gosh.
And then with Emily it was a neighborhood friend that kept her.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
So,
I have, uh,
I just cannot fathom putting a little bitty baby in a commercial care center.
Uh-huh.
I was just listening to a program this morning,
oh well, I guess it was on the HOME SHOW,
but they were talking about, uh, a new, uh,
oh I can't even think of the name of it.
I was halfway listening while I was painting
Uh-huh.
Um, it's some kind of advisory board they've put together for parents and children
Uh-huh.
and they've now moved it to Washington, D C
and the, the doctor that was on there, the pediatrician said, you know, I can't imagine leaving a three week old and taking them to a nursery day-care   and leaving them there.
Yeah.
Oh that would be hard.
You know, so, um,
Well, they give a lot more leave.
I work at N C N B now,
and our benefits for maternal and, and parental care and even for elderly people are, are really expanding.
Uh-huh.
We have more options now then we did when I, my kids were born,
with being able to take off full-time longer of, you can phase your schedule in so that it's not full-time for   up to six months.
Uh-huh.
Oh boy, that's great.
It's really neat.
I've, I've had a couple of assistants that came back just three days a week
or they've, you know, whatever schedule they want from a pay standpoint.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
We try to work it with their hours.
And that helps because you don't have to just wean yourself cold turkey and say  okay, I never get to see my baby for eight hours a day again.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
And the bank has a lot of programs now for child care referrals.
I've,
of course it's too late for me so  I've, I've not tried them to see how effective they are
Yeah
but  I think we're finally beginning to make progress but just not very fast
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
God, it's amazing
And for our age group it's too late, too little, too late.
Right.
Right.
But I, I do think it's an area that needs to be looked at and improved because more of us are going to have to work.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Two income families I think are here to stay.
Well and I would think, you know, since big business is supposedly why the government makes the decisions they do you know, the, the people that work in big business have families
Uh-huh.
Right.
they have children.
Yeah.
So, it's only to their advantage that they get these programs going and  working
Oh sure.
and, uh,
You retain employees and keep them longer.
That's, that was the rationale they gave when they were giving us information about our Employee Assistance Programs that  they want us to be happy and want us to be able to cope with trying to split ourselves in fifteen million pieces
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Right.
Right.
Right.
So, I, I hope it helps.
It seems to help the new mothers  not have to come back full-time.
Oh that's good.
because that's hard.
That's good to know.
I have a couple of friends that, have, have found the, uh, you know, a a private home to take their children to when they're young until they hit the preschool age.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And they
usually, you know, you'll find a, a woman that's keeping like six children or four to six children in the home
Uh-huh.
and my future, future sister-in-law's mother does that too, full-time.
Well in Plano though the problem is, you find,
and this is what I found with Emily.
I, from the time she started first grade, I wanted her out in Plano area.
Uh-huh.
And I kept finding neighbors and friends
and they'd move.
Oh.
She ended up being in a different home every year.
Too transit.
Uh-huh.
And I finally decided I didn't like that because it was traumatic to her to get so attached to a family and then have them move.
And her surroundings.
So this year I, I tried Kinder-Care
and, then she's old enough to
Okay.
Well, let's see,
well, we keep our paper, paper bags lined up in the garage for glass and, glass and, uh, plastics
and, uh, we make the dump over to the Wal-Mart bins there as soon as they're full.
I guess we collect milk cartons and whatever other plastics are acceptable.
Are you in the part of town where, uh, they have gotten into the other containers yet for recycling?
No,
no,
I didn't think that anybody had those at all yet.
Well, maybe they don't.
I, I know that was supposed to be in May
and I couldn't tell whether some parts of town had started it or if it was just everybody was, was waiting for the delivery of whatever those containers were.
Right.
Well, no,
I haven't seen any,
so I, I thought that it all, had all been delayed several times.
So I have no idea what they look like
and, I'm kind of anxious to see them.
Yeah, That's going to be interesting because it's, uh, we've gotten so convenient and conventional in trash disposal which is uh,
I look at our big green containers,
and I say, well, they work fine
and I keep mine outside the garage so that I don't have any odors
but it's clearly a place where, uh, uh,
Oh, right.
it will be interesting to see how well that works
and I am, I'm glad the community is doing it.
Uh, it's one of those things that kind of has to be forced on people.
Uh, I don't know if, where you grew up in your, what you saw back, uh, years ago,
but for me the thing that strikes me is I, uh, growing up in rural South Dakota where, hey the farmers brought their eggs to town and the local hatchery would candle them and package them is that, uh, in the fifties, uh, you could say we had the recycling going on then that we should have now. Which was all the milk bottles were glass
Right.
Right.
and you got a nickel or dime, which in that time was a lot of money, when you returned them.
Pop bottles all had a deposit on them.
Oh.
Oh, of course.
That, they did.
You know actually, we had milk delivered to our house in glass bottles
Oh.
and we had a milk shoot at the side of the house.
Uh-huh.
You could just leave the milkman a note on what you needed
Yeah.
and so you just put the empty ones back out there
and he took them away and put, you know, put another gallon of glass, glass bottle in there.
Yeah.
So, uh, yeah,
So, uh, you know, I look back at, at, uh, my childhood
and I'd say, you know, they were doing things then that we should be doing now
and so it doesn't bother me at all that we're, we're, uh, kind of starting to put the pressure on people to get away from all this, uh, throwaway society that got developed in the sixties and seventies.
Right,
right,
it would be nice, it would be nice to see it take a good turn here.
It seems like it started to take a turn and then it went away
so I hope that this time it, it stays.
Just, To see stacks and stacks of newspapers just to the trash is just amazing.
Yeah.
So, uh, you know, we, when we go dump, actually when we go dump our things, oh, we collect newspapers, too, and then take them,
seems like there's a pretty well, there's a pretty continual flow of people coming and dumping glass and dumping plastics
Uh-huh.
so that's kind of encouraging.
I didn't know, you know, I didn't know if we started to do that.
I didn't know what to expect.
Yeah,
well I'll have to say I'm, I'm, the only one I'm good at at this point is the newspaper. Uh, taking that to the Boy Scouts and my aluminum cans uh, getting rid of those,
Right.
but on the plastic, I have, uh, I don't have any habits there yet
and I'm, guess I'm waiting for the city to, to push me in that direction
but, But, it just seems like on the larger scale that, you know, the, we always talk about in our society is that economic strife things
Well, I guess they will shortly.
I, uh,
and I think if, uh, if we just start to put, you know, the nickel deposit on things, like, uh, was the case years ago that, uh, it would have more immediate effect, uh, than,
because I remember searching ditches for beer bottles because they were worth money
Oh, right.
and it seems like beer drinkers are among the worst for throwing things out the window
and so outside my little town, we would, uh, go out and look for long neck beer bottle because they were worth something.
Yeah.
Right.
Do you know, I saw in Tom Thumb yesterday, I saw the return to the, uh, the small Coke bottles.
Yeah.
And I don't know if there's a deposit on those or not.
I,
well that's interesting because,
they're back to glass, you're saying?
They were glass, they were the glass, uh,
well, let's see,
they'd be, I don't know, maybe ten ounce or six ounce or ten ounce. Sort of a small size, sort of a small size and, and we, anyway we just, we didn't stop and look them, look at them a long time
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
but, and they were packed in the old sort of six pack stick them down, you know, uh sort of, sort of a basket type thing.
Uh-huh.
The carton. The paper carton.
Right,
right,
so, I hadn't seen that in a long time.
Yeah.
Well, I mean the,
you really look and say a lot of the things we need to do, we were doing
and we had all the mechanisms in place with the fold up paper cartons, the wood uh, racks which now, basically, you could turn them into the plastic ones that would hold, uh, twenty-four bottles.
And, and, uh, uh, I'm not really say going back to good old days,
but certainly we were doing things the way we think we should do them now.
Yeah,
yeah,
well,
Well, it will be interesting to see how, over the next year, this all works out because, like on the, uh, grass, I'm, I know your husband, uh, doesn't really like the paper sacks.
No,
he doesn't like the paper sacks
and, uh, but he, but, you know, he likes to pick the grass up, too.
He doesn't, Doesn't,
Yeah.
I'm the, I'm the same way because otherwise, uh,
oh, I'm, I generally listen to Neal Sperry on Saturdays and Neal, uh, Neal's a person who says, I like to pick it up
but I don't believe in throwing it into the, uh, the landfill,
so I have my compost pile,
but most of us don't have the, uh, sufficient, lot size to, uh, to do that.
Right,
right.
Uh, so I'm glad the city's willing to take that on.
That's nice.
I guess they dump it the same place,
I wonder where they dump that.
Well, there's someplace, you know,
if it's,
because really, when I look at what my grass does in, in actually about twenty-four hours, uh, knowing what the farmers do in rural areas, they just take their hay and just build a big mound of it and it naturally, uh, composts or stores
and, uh, so all you have to do is just place it somewhere and churn it
and it will naturally decompose uh,
so you just have to kind of keep in separated
and then, uh, who knows how they process it from there and what they turn it into,
but it's certainly usable material.
Yeah,
yeah,
well they must, they must keep it separate if they have this date in.
Uh-huh.
They have this day now, that it's, you know, separate from the other trash pick up.
Right
But, I, the thing I don't understand about that is, like when,
it's one thing to send grass there,
but I've trimmed trees and other things which, uh, end up being something that, clearly won't decompose nearly as rapidly,
No.
Okay, well, um,
What kind of music do you like?
I, um, I was thinking about it for a long time,
and I like basically almost every form of music and type of music.
Um, I don't have a whole lot of dislikes.
I, um, like jazz, um, especially the blues,
and, uh, I like, uh, a lot of the, uh, of course the classics, um, everything back from Bach and, and Beethoven and Chopin and, um, just in general everything.
Uh-huh.
Um, I enjoy, uh, a lot of the, the modern forms, um, uh,
Do you like, like rock and those kind of things punk even.
Right,
right.
Uh, well, that gets,
some of the punk, um, when I was in high school, that was, uh, one of the big things, was punk music,
and, uh, a lot of it is, has a lot to say, or some of it has a lot to say, the music does, the lyrics do,
but the, the actual,
I don't think they have a whole lot to say, even
Uh, well, it, it's, it's, it really expresses some of the opinions of, of the people who enjoy the music
Yeah,
I guess.
um, but as far as a musical art form, I just don't see a whole lot of art to it
Uh-huh.
Um.
Do you like rap?
Um, some of it, um,
it depends.
I like, uh, the rap, the two types of rap I like, or I enjoy to listen to, and one is the, the rap that is just funny, um,
and they usually do a lot of satire
Yeah
um.
that kind I kind of like.
Right.
Some of it is kind of pointless,
Right,
the monotonous the monotonous,
yeah.
no
that's not,
I don't enjoy that at all when they're just talking about, well, I'm better than you, and blah, blah, blah.
Uh-huh.
I don't like that.
Yeah,
yeah.
I like the funny, satire,
and then some of it is, some of it actually gets into some serious discussions of problems in our, in urban society.
Yeah.
It really does.
It talks about, um, race relations and police relations
and, um, that, that
I guess I don't really care to listen to rap that much except for once in a while some of the funny more satire kind some times.
Uh-huh.
Um, I'm, with you though,
I like classical
Uh-huh.
um, I don't like to listen to it all the time, but, um, some of the time, anyway.
I like easy listening, just kind of, you know,
I guess I don't care much for rock and roll any more.
I used to like it all right,
but I don't really care to listen to it any more for some reason.
Um, let's see.
Country western, uh, I'm not quite as big on that.
Some of it's okay, uh
Yeah,
that's, that's about my opinion of that
yeah
It's, it's okay, um,
Some of it kind of falls in the rap category I guess,
so
Um. The thing about country western that I don't enjoy is is, doesn't seem to be any imagination behind it
Yeah.
the, one country and western song sounds like every other, country and western
a lot of them, sound, uh, really similar,
yeah.
and so the, the musicians don't get to really get into their music.
They just play a certain number of chords
Yeah.
the drummer plays a certain beat,
and you have a country and western song
Um.
and,
Well, that's kind of the way I feel about rock and roll sometimes, too, I guess.
They don't really,
has kind of the same sound over and over,
and the other thing I don't like about it is they have a tendency to play the instrumental so loud that you can't understand what the lyrics are
Um. Right.
you can't understand what they're saying on some of those songs which probably is just as well on some of them, too.
Yeah.
And I can't say that I like a lot of the modern, the very, very modern, uh, rock and roll,
Yeah.
but I, I definitely, I really enjoy the fifties, the sixties and a lot, some of the seventies rock and roll
Yeah
earlier things.
and, uh, I really enjoy, especially the sixties ...
Hello?
Hi.
Hi,
my name is Leslie.
Hi,
I'm Jennifer.
And where are you from?
Pennsylvania.
Oh, nice,
I'm from Dallas, Texas.
Oh, really?
Yeah,
so,
Oh, that's neat.
Well, did you understand what this was for, you know, what it was for, what we,
Uh, television shows?
Yeah
Sure,
that sounds good.
Okay
I, I don't watch too many,
but we can try it.
Okay.
Are you ready to start?
Sure am.
Okay,
just a minute
Okay,
I guess we're recording now.
Yeah,
okay.
What are your favorite television shows?
Well, I don't really watch too many T V shows other than, uh, occasionally I'll, I'll turn on DONAHUE because it comes on in the morning when I seem to be getting ready around here.
Oh, really?
And, uh, so if, if there's no one else around, you know, it's just me and I have a chance to listen to something, I'll turn that on, but, uh, just for the, for the conversation factor, I think,
but, and then I think I enjoy when I catch it, I don't even know what night it's on, but DESIGNING WOMEN sometimes,
Oh, I love that show.
Yeah,
do you?
Yes,
that is great.
Yeah,
it's fun.
And then there's a new one that started out that I've caught a couple of times called GOOD AND EVIL, I think.
Oh, I heard they just canceled that.
Oh, really?
I read in today's paper they just canceled that show.
It is a real different one.
It's, uh, it's, it's different.
I guess I watch it more out of the uniqueness of it and the time that it comes on more than the fact that I have to see it.
But,
Have you seen the show, it's, it's new this year, called HOME FRONT?
No,
I haven't watched that.
Oh, it's, it's really good.
It's, uh, I think it's on like Tuesday nights from ten to eleven
Uh-huh.
and it's set in post World War Two times
and it's about how the servicemen come home and readjust to civilian life here and the changes everyone's going through.
It's really interesting.
Oh, yeah.
It's kind of like a a nighttime soap opera type thing.
Sounds neat.
It is, it's a good, it's really well written.
Yeah.
Is that on, what what station?
Uh, I don't even know, to tell you the truth
Oh, okay.
What other shows do you like?
Uh, I prefer OPRAH WINFREY to DONAHUE
Oh, yeah.
Well, she comes on later
and I usually have kids around so I don't end, end up watching that one is the only problem I have with it, I guess.
Oh.
I did watch soap operas,
but I work full-time now and can't catch those anymore. Except when I'm home sick,
Yeah
and now when I watch them, I think, why did I ever watch those?
That's right
They're stupid
Yeah.
So when I did watch them I was addicted to them every day.
Uh-huh.
But not anymore.
That can happen.
So do you know of any other shows in the even, or something that you enjoy?
Oh, uh, tonight I'm looking forward to seeing GOLDEN GIRLS.
Oh, that's always fun.
Yes,
I like that show.
Yeah.
And if I can stay up late enough, I like to catch SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE every now and then.
Oh, uh-huh.
And right now we're watching a Penn State football game because that's where we live.
Oh, yeah.
So
Uh-huh.
It's exciting,
we're winning,
so that's really exciting.
Yeah,
well, I think,
I also, course, like to catch the news during the evening hours
Uh-huh.
but, uh, it's a little tough because that's when I'm usually making dinner and the kids are wanting to talk all at the same time.
So, usually I don't get a whole lot of news watching in.
Yes,
we watch C N N in morning while we're getting ready for the day and eating breakfast.
Uh-huh.
We'll catch our news that way.
Watch the weather channel so that we know what the weather's going to be like.
Yeah,
yeah.
So what have you seen interesting on OPRAH WINFREY lately?
Lately, I haven't been catching it because of my work schedule.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I can't remember the last time I saw it.
It's been a while.
Yeah,
well, I don't know if we've talked our full three minutes or not
I don't know,
sometimes they come on and, and say.
Oh, that's right.
Well, today on C N N they were talking about something like this about, uh, learning to recognize voices and words and stuff and the research that's going on which is kind of what we're doing, helping them get a data base for words.
Um, yeah.
It was really interesting.
It is interesting.
So,
Do you work for Texas Instruments?
No,
no,
just, uh, doing this as a fund-raiser for our church.
Oh, that's nice.
Yeah,
so it kind of makes it easy, you know, to do a little something for it.
Sure,
because we, uh, we've talked to a lot of people from Texas, it seems,
and we thought, well, maybe they work from, for Dallas,
All right.
I think that gets us off to discussing the topic for tonight.
Which is movies,
correct?
That is correct.
Okay.
Are you a movie buff?
Um, yeah.
I don't like going to see them in the theaters
but outside of that, rent a lot,
watch them on T V mostly.
I sometimes wonder, are, are they really doing anything,
or,
Right,
well, I think we're going to see a streamlining in the government.
I just, you know,
I, I don't know what kind of, uh, I don't know what, what level, or what, how long it will take for, you know, our country to start, the public in general to start saying, Hey, this is too much. We're not going to pay any more. You know, we're not going to pay for this,
and you're out, you know.
I think we're starting to see it a little bit now,
but I think, uh, I don't know what, what kind of input we're going to get from the public and how they're going to go about doing it.
Because I think, I think we're just getting taxed way too much.
Yeah.
I mean, right now we're getting taxed probably, probably around thirty-five percent, or more.
And that's, that's, you know, that's me not making a whole lot of money.
Yeah.
Well, they got so many hidden taxes, that it's really hard to figure out how much you are paying, because, go to a grocery store, something like that, and you're paying a little tax here
and you
Right.
so.
Gas, I don't know about you guys,
but there's probably at least about twenty-five to, to thirty cents of different taxes on, on our gas.
Right.
And you don't realize,
Yeah,
we got a sales tax.
Our sales tax is like eight percent,
and I don't know what our gas tax is.
I think it's somewhere around twenty five cents a gallon.
Yeah.
So. I mean, they're hitting us up,
and they may not raise it, you know, federally as much one year,
but then they'll raise it somewhere in the state or the sales tax or property tax or whatever.
It's just, I mean, you can see that your money is just not going that far.
Yeah.
Well, I know they say like with Reagan, they say no new taxes,
but they changed the, uh, deductions on you,
and that just raises your taxes, you know, they just get it a different way
Right.
so, I mean, to me, it did, uh, raise my taxes.
Right,
well, I mean, you could tell just by, just by how much money you have left over,
and all of a sudden, I don't know it's just, it's eating me alive.
Yeah,
I heard someone say that, uh, if they would just, something about with the, uh, the defense budget, all that extra money they're throwing back, if they cut back by so much percentage, it could throw back about six hundred dollars, on an average, six hundred dollars,
Okay,
I'll let you start this time.
Well, how much do you like lawn and garden work?
Well, uh, even though it's totally out of my, uh, my degree training, I've been working as, as, in the horticultural aspect, so the last, I don't know, fifteen, twenty years, so Uh, I'm,
Oh.
Oh, for goodness sakes.
What do you do?
Well, I work for the state as, as a grounds keeper.
Uh-huh,
well, that's interesting.
Um, so, at this time of the year are you doing much garden work?
No,
mostly snow removal, which we've had a lot of,
but, uh, I don't know,
I, I guess, uh, growing up on the farm and, and that, I, I've always had a big interest, uh.
Right.
I have a, uh, when I have an area to do, I, I always had a big garden and enjoy working on lawns and, and everything.
Uh-huh.
Well I love to work outside, really,
and I enjoy flowers and stuff.
I don't do a whole lot of it, um, at this exact point in my life, um, because I have two teenage boys,
and so they do all the lawn all the lawn care
Okay.
but I still take care of the, you know, flower beds and things like that.
I was even planning to go out and to, uh, dig up some hibiscus plants that will not make it through the winter here, but, you know, were planted in the ground since last spring
Uh-huh.
and I was going to dig them up for a friend and for some starters for me,
and lo and behold, about five days ago, we had a freeze down to about, oh, twenty-three degrees or something
Uh-huh.
so the hibiscus plants no longer exist
Oh, that's terrible.
Twenty-three
And I really feel bad about it,
it's a plant that we've had for probably twenty-five years that these were cuttings off of, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, they're all gone at this point.
Gardening in Texas is really interesting, though.
I grew up in Illinois
Yeah.
and, um, Texas is just so hot in the summer and so dry,
why, you know, everyone that lives in town and has yards practically has uh, watering system.
Uh-huh.
And so with that, why, our lawns do stay, um, you know, pretty nice all summer, if you water.
Uh-huh.
But in the winter, we have Bermuda grass
Uh-huh.
and in the winter it turns as brown as a grocery sack
Right,
yeah.
and and I just think it's ugly
When I go back home to my parents in Illinois in the winter, you know, and their grass is fairly green.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
that's one, one aspect of a lot of those grasses, they go dormant.
I think the Saint Augustine and, uh, Centipede grass is another one you have quite a bit of down there
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
yeah,
those two.
Yeah.
Some people have, I think it's fescue that stays green all winter,
Yeah.
but they really have a heck of a time keeping it going in the middle of the summer.
They have to water an incredible amount.
But, um, those those lawns look nice during the winter,
but, you know, they almost stick out like a, I guess not a sore thumb, a pretty thumb.
But, you know, when you look at the neighborhoods and they're all brown except the one, you know,
it's sort of like, well,
Well, I know my folks live, uh, in Arizona there,
and, uh, you know, they just grow rocks
Right.
So. I know I was in, uh, Houston when I was working for a company once,
and we were taking care of lawns out there,
and, uh, that particular year they had just tons of rain, you know,
it was raining continuously.
Uh-huh.
And then, I know with all that moisture, a lot of the lawns get a lot of disease problems.
Yes,
that's true.
Yeah,
Houston is a lot, um, a lot wetter than, than Dallas, Dallas area,
that's where Plano is,
and, um, and just humidity you know, just all the time, it's an awfully lot more humid.
Uh-huh.
Are, are you, uh, able to get, uh, sometimes a double crops of, of certain things in your garden?
Yes,
uh-huh,
I think people do.
Yeah.
I don't have a vegetable garden,
haven't for, I guess I never have here, actually,
but, um, but, yes,
uh-huh,
we have Neil Sperry talks on the radio,
Okay.
So what do you guys having up there?
I haven't been up there since, oh, Lord, forty-eight, I guess
Forty-eight.
That's a long time. Uh.
Well, no,
it wasn't forty-eight,
it was, it was, uh, let's see, yeah, it was forty-eight.
I was in the Air Force.
Uh-huh.
We did an air show out at, uh, out at, uh, Boone Greene, no out at, uh Andrews,
Andrews?
yeah.
So what's it been like up there?
Well, for the past week or two it's been cold and wet
Uh-huh.
but before that, for most of the year, it's been hot and dry.
Yeah.
Uh, like September was hot and dry,
October.
Um, September really was,
I'm not sure about October.
I think for about twelve months through September the, the average temperature has been higher than normal each month. Um, lots of ninety degree days during the summer.
Really?
Huh.
It really has been strange here this year,
I mean, this whole course this whole year has been a different year in more ways than one.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, we had, uh, you know, all these, we have all these, uh,
somebody said, you know, you're either a stranger or a fool to try to predict Texas weather,
but. Well, always, they were saying it was going to be the hottest summer ever,
Uh-huh.
and we had all this rain,
and it really is not a bad summer at all, really cool.
But all of a sudden, in, in, uh, in October, uh, September, October it got real hot and dry and just stayed that way for a long time.
And, uh, then the end of October it started rain almost a week without stopping, just pouring down, you know.
There were flash floods everywhere, that kind of deal,
and then uh, into of November, the first, like the second week, uh, you know, the first week actually, we had, we had a freeze,
Uh-huh.
and the average, you know, the average, uh, first frost is like the fifteenth of November here
Oh, if you had it early.
but usually it's not until later
It's really strange.
Yeah,
I think we usually have a frost in October.
Yeah.
Uh, but, you know. We really need the rain that we've been getting,
and it has not today,
but the last few days it's been, been pouring most of the day.
Is it, is it, is it flooding anywhere?
Flooding anywhere.
I have not heard of it, any problems of it flooding anywhere,
I mean, that's occurred certainly at times in the past,
but, uh, no,
I've not heard of any particular problems this time.
It's just kind of, uh,
we're supposed to have a chance to get some rain the next couple of days here, uh, which will be, you know, a little bit more typical, uh, autumn weather. But really it's strange.
We haven't really had an autumn.
It's like we went into winter
Yes.
you know, the poor trees, said what
Yes,
yeah,
we had summer lasting long
and then it, then it, then it became winter like, uh today it's, today it's sort of change to warmer to sort of more typical autumn day.
Yeah,
uh, it's,
Yeah,
there, you, you know,
usually there's, uh,
I have a farm a hundred miles east of here in East Texas,
and you know, all these huge trees just like the eastern hard wood belt all the way up to Maine, you know,
it's that same trees, pines and, and hard woods, you know hickories and oaks and stuff,
Yeah.
and, uh, I was up there last weekend,
and there are trees that, that still have their leaves on,
and they're green,
but they're dead
You know, the, the freeze just got them.
They, they weren't ready for it at all apparently,
and, and we haven't had a typical fall at all.
Not much color, you know, changes have occurred at all.
Really weird this year.
I'm not sure what that, what that means.
I don't know.
Yeah,
our leaves are, are all on, on the ground now.
I think it was an especially good winter for fall colors.
So you, you all actually had some color, huh?
Oh, yeah,
yeah.
It kind of crept in
and,
Yeah,
we, we did, for a time.
Yeah,
it's usually beautiful up there isn't it?
Uh-huh.
Gorgeous.
That's, you know,
I think you could drive along in Maryland and look at the sweet gum trees on each side and the, and the pines and what not,
and you could, you know, you could be driving along in East Texas and looks just the same.
It's almost, you know, identical kind of country.
Uh-huh.
Beautiful.
Been that this year for the trees for the leaves.
Yeah.
Oh.
Yeah,
I was up, I was up there cutting some firewood this weekend,
so.
Um.
Little, little oak tree that was dead, and cut it up and split it .
Yeah,
that's because it, it can't tolerate a freeze this early.
Is that right?
Well.
If it would came later it would be all right?
Uh, it, there's some trees
like the oaks, like the white oaks seem to be pretty hardy.
There's,
nothing bothers them.
Their leaves are still green,
and some of the other oaks. There are a few oaks that have lost their leaves.
Um, what I notice mostly is the red maples, that the leaves are just dead, the dogwoods still look, still look, you know, they got, uh, bit on the ends of the leaves a little bit,
but they still look pretty good.
Um.
It just depends on the, on the, uh, on the tree.
Okay.
Well, it's not often you get, uh, many women interested in football
Oh well
Do you follow football very much?
I'm sorry, what?
Do you follow football very much?
I don't,
no,
I haven't recently, um.
Well we can talk about something else.
Do you have any, uh,
you married?
No,
I'm not,
no.
No,
well, I guess kids are out.
What's that?
Kids are out.
Yep
Are you married?
Yeah,
I, I'm married.
Got two boys.
Oh, really.
Yeah.
Wow.
So do you like football?
Oh, I follow the, uh, the Cowboys
but that's about it, uh.
The, the same here
Yeah.
Do you live in Dallas?
Yeah,
I, I, I am a pretty big Dallas fan, been for a long time
Yeah.
but I haven't been to any games recently.
But, uh, I try to catch the game every weekend that I can.
Really?
Yeah.
Have you ever been to a Cowboy's game?
I haven't,
huh-uh.
Um, it's pretty nice.
We we decided just to watch them at home
But.
That's good.
At least you, uh, follow the game a little bit.
Yeah.
Um, yeah,
I'm not a fanatic about it.
I don't know who played when and who does what like some guys are.
I just like to watch,
and, and hopefully they win
Uh-huh.
That's about the extent of it.
Yeah.
Right now I'm in, um, college,
so I'm more into college football than professional, I think.
Oh, I see.
What, uh, school are you going to?
Um, I'm at B Y U.
B Y U,
okay.
Yeah,
so.
Leslie, what are you studying?
Nursing.
Nursing.
Great.
Yeah.
My mom's an L V N.
Oh, really.
Yeah.
So, what are you planning to go into?
Do you want to be an R N
or,
Yeah,
yeah.
Um, I haven't really picked a field.
I haven't, I, I don't know, I've thought a lot about labor and delivery
but I don't know.
Uh-huh.
Try that.
That's what my mom does, labor and delivery.
Oh, really.
Wow.
Yeah,
she loves it.
She, she really, uh, enjoys.
Is she a nurse in Dallas?
No,
she's a nurse in San Antonio
Oh.
but, uh, she's been, she's been working a, uh, on a late shift.
She works the, uh, I guess the graveyard's what you'd call it.
Uh-huh.
She works the graveyard shift.
And she's worked that for, oh, years, when I was small.
Um.
Uh, I guess probably going on twenty years now.
Wow.
And she really enjoys it.
She likes the quiet that you have at that time of the night
and, uh, and, uh, she's, uh, she just started a new job at a different hospital, closer to where she lives
Uh-huh.
and she's really enjoying herself.
She really likes it.
Well, that's great.
Well, good luck to you in pursuing your nursing degree.
Oh thanks
Hope you'll like it.
Yeah.
Do you plan on staying in, in the Dallas area?
Um, I'd like to come back to Dallas.
Right now I'm in Utah, of course.
Oh, uh-huh
So, um,
but, my family's there,
so,
yeah,
I'd like to go back.
Yeah,
uh, I think Texas, San Antonio in particular, has got a large, uh, base of hospitals.
Uh, I don't know about Dallas.
I think Dallas is pretty scattered.
Are you in San Antonio?
No,
I'm, I'm in Dallas
Oh, okay.
but I'm originally from San Antonio
Um.
and they've got large medical, uh, center down there.
They've got the U T Health Science Center out there also.
Right.
So if ever wanted, you know, pursue anything more than your nursing degree, that, that'd be the place to do it.
Yeah,
my brother-in-law, um, is in the medical profession, I mean, he's at medical school in San Antonio right now.
Oh, great.
So.
Great.
Yeah.
Well, like I said, good luck to you.
Thanks.
All right,
well, um, take care,
and maybe we'll meet up again some time.
All right.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
My name is, uh, Donna Donahue,
and I live in Plano, Texas.
Hi.
My name is Lowell,
and I live in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Oh, okay.
Um, do you want to start
or should I start?
Go right ahead.
Okay, um,
I would say that our home is a very typical home for the area that we live in.
We have, um, three children,
and, um, they attend the public school here and are very active in a lot of the sports, soccer and baseball
and, well, my little girl goes to tap dance,
and my little one goes to preschool
and, um, I'm home with the children, just do a lot of running around.
It seems like a lot of my neighbors kind of have a similar type, I don't know, life.
Um, what about you?
I'm, I'm single,
and I, I live in a town home here in Raleigh,
Uh-huh.
and it's pretty typical of the other town homes in the area
Uh-huh.
Okay.
we, we have a lot of town homes here as well as single family homes,
Uh-huh.
and at the time that I bought this one it was just a, a much better arrangement for me personally.
I'm not home a lot.
I travel a great deal with my job,
Uh-huh.
and so it was easier to have a home that didn't exactly that somebody else looks out for the maintenance.
Was sort of maintenance free.
Yeah.
Oh yeah,
well, um, that, that sounds, that sounds pretty good for
I know my husband takes an awful lot of time on the weekends, not so much now, but to, um, maintain the lawn and the edging and the flower beds,
and it's a lot of work, owning a home with a little bit of property attached to it.
It's
It certainly is.
sometimes I think, um, it would be nice to have a town home, with not having all that responsibility.
Well, if you ever get one, be sure the walls are good and thick because if they're not you can hear.
I, that's the main thing when I was shopping for one,
I wanted to make sure I could, I couldn't hear my neighbors
and that was
Right.
so I bought one that's more like living in a,
once you're inside, you don't know you're in a town home.
Oh, that sounds lovely.
It is.
They're kind of built on a catty-cornered instead of like side by side
Uh-huh.
so you don't actually hear anybody next door to you.
Uh-huh.
So in, in your area then there's probably a lot of, um, career type people that have those type homes
and
Yes,
definitely.
uh-huh,
and, um, the area that we're settled in is, um, definitely young, young families with, with kids.
They're still doing, um, a lot of building in the neighborhood.
So the people that move here seem to move from all over the country, which we're from, um, the northeast,
and, um, seems like a people just don't, or also don't have any family around.
So it, um, also gives you a common bond when you don't have a lot of relatives visiting your neighbors,
and you know, um But, um ,
Well, we also in this area seem to have a lot of retirees people who don't want the heat of Florida but don't want the heat of the, the cold of the northeast
Uh-huh.
so they settle sort of in-between.
Right,
right.
Uh-huh.
Now it's, um, is it very wooded around where you are,
there lots of pretty trees and,
Yes
Yeah.
as a matter of fact this is a, uh, this particular community that I live in is very wooded.
Oh, how pretty.
It is nice.
I do miss that.
Around here in Plano there are very few trees
and it's pretty flat and, and kind of barren
and that's the only thing that we don't like about living in Texas, is we miss all the beautiful trees and the Fall
and, and, um, uh, the landscape is much different here in Texas than it is, you know, in the north. Um, or even where you are.
Uh, we definitely have a lot of trees here.
A lot of leaves to rake up too, I bet.
Yes
but fortunately the home owner's association does all that.
Does that,
well, see, that's another plus.
Yes,
I don't have to worry about that
and this is the time of year we're starting to lose,
they're all falling now.
That's right,
that's right,
they are.
I'm going to get the kids to get outside with the other neighbor kids and do the little bit of raking that needs to be done.
We just have a few trees in the front and a few in the back but, not, not much. Just, just a little kind of just in more of a make a little bit of a mess for a few weeks
and if you didn't do anything about it, then they'd probably the leaves just blow away
Right.
It's not too bad.
Okay,
do we have to speak for a certain amount of time?
No,
I don't think so.
Okay.
Okay.
It was really nice speaking to you.
It was good to speak with you too.
Okay,
and have a happy Thanksgiving.
Thank you,
you too.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
The way,
I'll go ahead and start
the way I work, uh, the way I dress for work is, uh, this year, nineteen ninety-one has been really suit and tie,
Uh-huh.
or I shouldn't say suit, but coat and tie every day.
Uh-huh.
A, a year ago, I changed jobs from being a researcher to doing marketing for the research group.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Which means kind of a, I guess it's a different set of standards, I guess.
Yeah.
So, uh, I, I dress almost the same every day.
I mean, pretty much it's a white shirt and slacks and shoes and a coat.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
But, it was very different before.
How do you dress?
Well, I'm a drafter,
so I just wear blue jeans and tennis shoes
and I have sweatshirt on today.
Uh-huh.
And that's pretty much the norm for me.
If I come in in a dress, everybody's shocked
Yeah,
I understand.
They ask me, you know, what are you doing in a dress
and it's usually I haven't done my laundry lately
Right.
Ran out of jeans
I understand,
that's funny
So, does it change?
No.
Your dress,
no.
No,
huh-uh.
So, or, I guess, do you have things like presentations to do or anything like that?
No,
huh-uh.
So, back in my old job, up until through nineteen eighty I would usually wear blue jeans and pullover shirts and the like,
Uh-huh.
but, probably once a month or so, there was some reason that I would have to put on a suit. For a customer presentation or something.
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah.
Every now and then I'll get dressed up and come in,
but that's for my husband's job and not mine
Oh, I see,
I understand.
I have to go to a business meeting once a month with him,
but So,
Oh. Well, that's interesting.
Let's see, uh, what else about this, uh,
it, it seems like T I is pretty cut and dried with two, like, two or three levels.
Uh-huh.
That there's the upper management that always wears gray suits. And the people that don't, uh,
Uh-huh.
I would, if you, if I want to say don't have power or don't have authority or whatever like I used to be in that research
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and I guess you are.
Uh-huh.
That we dress in the jeans
and then there's kind of the, the branch manager level or marketing people that kind of do that middle thing.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
yeah.
But there's not much,
middle of the road.
It's nice that there's not a requirement for it.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Sometimes I think there should be.
Some of these women around here look like they came off of Harry Hines.
Oh, yeah,
right
Yeah,
I guess you see those once in a while.
And you know the, they have the no shorts deal,
and some of these mini skirts, you know, are worse than shorts ever thought about being.
Sure.
But, uh, You know, that's, I guess that's one of the things you got to put up with when you don't have a dress code.
Yeah.
That's right,
that's right.
I guess they're, the, isn't there a dress code, something about spaghetti straps,
I'm not even sure what they are.
Supposedly and backless things
Oh, backless,
all right.
but, I've seen those, too,
but,
Okay,
so this wasn't necessarily a big conversation,
but, I think we, we did it
Uh, yeah.
Okay,
and, and your name was Lisa.
Lisa.
Great.
Are you the Expressway sites?
I am,
yes,
and I work in the north building.
Oh, okay.
Uh, well, thank you.
Thank you.
All right,
good day.
Uh-huh,
bye-bye.
Uh, advice on son or daughter going to college.
Right.
Uh, that's advice that I will need in time future for my children, rather than one that I have, uh, personal experience with
Uh-huh.
Uh, I suppose I would ask what the child wants to do in life and what the child hopes to, to get out of college and what sort of college would best meet, meet those needs.
Uh-huh.
Right,
uh, let's see,
when I, when I went away to school, I'm trying to think my criteria.
I guess when you're, when you're eighteen or so, uh, it would be important to know if it was a coed college
That was a, a strict requirement for me.
Uh, again what, uh, how serious a person is according to, uh, uh, you know, what, what they want to get out of school, and, uh, I guess they'd have to consider how expensive the college is and how close to home, if they could handle being away for real long periods of time or if they need to be somewhere where they can drive home when they needed to get home.
Uh, let's see, uh,
now what was the question,
what, what's the criteria for picking a college?
What advice would you give?
What advice.
Oh, okay, uh,
I guess one clear-cut piece of advice is by all means visit the college campus.
Yes.
Uh, stay in a dormitory if you can.
Go to classes,
talk to faculty members and students.
Yes,
and also, uh, depending on how, uh, uh, adjustable your child would be, or, or flexible, I guess it would be, uh,
if, if they chose a college in a different part of the country that maybe the, they were unused to their, that, the way they run things,
I mean, the, the northern colleges are very different than the southern colleges, I think.
The people are different
and, uh, you have to be more flexible and more willing to, uh, uh, adjust to other people's mannerisms and customs or ways of doing things.
You know, you have to be a flexible person to be able to go all the way across country to something totally different than what you're used to. Uh,
Yes,
I'm thinking what, what problems my children might have in that, uh,
You think so
but I agree with you.
Uh, let's see,
what else.
Uh, well, climate would be,
you know, you'd have to
Uh-huh.
you know, is somewhat,
if, uh, if it's something different than the one they're used to, I guess, uh,
if they're used to the northern weather then the southern weather they might kind of feel like they need to go out and play all the time, not be in studying If you're in Florida or California. Uh,
I, I'd also advise them that, uh, if mom and dad paid for their college, that, uh, if they decided to drop a course or decided that they need another year, then they'd have to get a loan to continue.
Yeah.
Well, course it, it is a big factor in having an understanding of how much parents will pay and how much has to come from other sources and your willingness, one, to, to work during the summer or, or part time. And two, uh, to, to take out loans to assume, uh, debt after college.
That's right.
There's,
The, the responsibility of that.
And, uh, uh, uh, they could, they could work and earn money towards college.
Also if they stay within their state, you get a lot more financial aid
or it's a lot cheaper if you stay within your state than if you go out of state to a private school, uh,
Yes.
and, like I said, if they was willing to work, uh, in the summers and also maybe then the parents could pay a third
and then maybe they could take out a loan for a third depending on how expensive it is.
By the time, I have an eleven year old is my oldest,
so, it's not too far away,
but it's,
Mine is twelve.
Oh, okay.
But it's getting there,
I mean, we still have, definitely can put away the money for college now.
Uh, I would advise that, that they did not have a car at college.
They would,
That's my gut feeling, too.
I,
my son is certainly not persuaded of that
Hello?
Yes,
I'm here.
Oh, yeah, uh,
yes,
I didn't have a car in college.
I think it's more an a burden to, to provide for.
No.
I think so, too.
I think, I think because most kids don't have a car at college, the ones that do get taken advantage of
and, you know, there is just, I think it's just trouble waiting to happen.
So I would advise they didn't, they didn't take a car
and, uh they didn't take a television
Is it,
and they didn't take a refrigerator
Maybe that,
Uh, I didn't do any of those, though,
I feel less strongly about the T V and refrigerators.
No,
I, I,
Yeah,
we didn't have,
Well, let me see,
what have you seen lately?
Well, uh, CITY SLICKERS, and STAR TREK FIVE.
FIVE?
Yeah
yeah.
only, only five?
Yeah.
I thought I'd better see that one before I go and see six.
Well, no,
didn't need to.
No,
I found that out
How about yourself?
I just saw the latest one.
How is it?
It was fantastic.
Oh, I can't wait.
Yeah,
it's,
the lines in there were just perfect.
I mean, it was classic TREK.
Now, does the old STAR TREK guys meet the new guys?
No,
huh-uh.
No,
it's just the old guys still.
Yeah,
it was just a rumor that that would happen this time.
However, the rumor is, is that it will happen next, happen next time
so,
You know, that I read in PEOPLE or somewhere, no, it was U S A TODAY
Uh-huh.
that they said they weren't going to do anymore.
That was it.
Uh-huh.
But,
Yeah,
uh, except that the rumor is, is that they still might,
but it may not include the entire crew
and it will be a next generation meets this generation
Huh.
So,
I'm not sure what the difference in light years between the new generation and the, the old guys was.
I think it's a hundred years.
Huh.
Somewhere in that range.
Considering that Spock was on an, uh, you know, couple weeks ago and that the, the very first episode of NEXT GENERATION, they had McCoy.
Oh, that's right.
Is that right?
He was a doctor still?
And,
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
well, you know, he was rear admiral, whatever, you know,
and he just kind of hobbled down the halls real slow.
Vulcans age a lot better
Well, yeah,
he didn't look too bad, did he?
No,
huh-uh.
Matter of fact, he looks just as about as old and the, uh, NEXT GENERATION as he does in the latest STAR TREK
Imagine that.
Yeah,
that's amazing.
But, did they have some pretty good special effects?
Oh, excellent, excellent special effects.
But I think the script was, you know, just incredible compared to the last one.
Yeah,
FIVE was, the script was bad, bad, bad
Well, you know why?
No,
I don't.
Why?
Uh, William Shatner wrote it.
Oh, is that right?
And even worse, he directed it.
Uh,
Leonard, Nimoy, he does a lot better.
Oh, yeah,
he, in fact, uh, he didn't direct this one.
He produced this one
But he directed the one before, uh, I think STAR TREK FOUR, something like that.
IN SEARCH OF SPOCK, or, no, JOURNEY HOME, I think that was.
Yeah,
uh-huh.
Are, you're a real life Trekkie?
I think so
I really like them.
I, I wouldn't go so far as being a Trekkie,
but
Uh-huh.
uh,
Well, I've gone to, you know, one for real live Trek Convention
but,
Oh, really?
Yeah,
I saw James Doohan, you know, the guy that plays, uh, Scotty.
Huh, did you get to talk to him?
No
It was crowded.
Not in a crowd like that.
Huh-uh.
No.
It was like, uh, want an autograph, want to stand in line for about four hours.
Yeah.
Wow.
It was a pretty crowded place.
Huh. They have some good management principals in this NEW GENERATION.
Oh, yeah,
yeah,
I,
it's, it's kind of funny.
I, uh, was reading in, uh, a book. Uh, trying to think,
I can't quite remember the name of the book,
but it was, it was saying don't do STAR TREK management style.
And they were referring to, you know, Captain Kirk,
every time he left the Enterprise, everything went to hell.
Oh.
And nothing got righted until he got back up on the ship
Right,
so he kind of was a cowboy type, too.
Uh-huh
Made all the decisions
but, uh, Jean Luke does more of a, a, committee type of management.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
uh, it's definitely a lot better A lot more realistic really.
What other movies have you seen?
Uh, saw THE ADDAMS FAMILY last week.
Oh, how was that?
It was pretty good.
Uh, there were a few things different than the old series,
but on the, on the whole, it was pretty similar. And, a lot of fun.
Lots of little funny spots, huh.
Oh, yeah,
yeah.
Did they have Thing
and,
Oh, yes,
in fact, Thing has a big, much bigger role than he does in the series.
I mean, you know, there is lots of areas where Thing saves the day.
Really?
And he runs around a lot.
How did,
I've always wondered how he gets around.
Uh, you know, just finger hopping.
But he's in a box, right?
No,
no,
no,
in fact, it's funny.
He never did, does come in out of a box, I don't think.
Yeah,
he was just kind of walking around.
Didn't he used to?
Not really.
He was always in the box before.
Oh.
Oh, that's, yeah, that's, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah,
that's what I was thinking.
Well, do you do any recycling?
Uh, we do here.
Uh, see, what do we recycle?
We, they recycle,
they have bins
Yeah.
and they also have centers where you can take aluminum cans and, uh, plastic bottles
and I think that's all they have.
Oh.
What about you guys?
Well, we, uh,
there is a lot of things that you can recycle down here, although the only thing I guess I wind up recycling religiously is, uh, aluminum cans.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, we've got a, we've got a couple of different things, uh, places, uh,
they're like unattended aluminum can smashers
And you can go up there and, and, uh, redeem,
we've got one that gives you like a penny a can,
so if you,
Really?
Yeah
For smashed cans?
Well, actually, you have to give, put them in there unsmashed.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, when you do that it, it basically crushes them and then drops a penny down a little shoot.
Oh, can you, can you hold on for just a minute?
Sure.
I'm going to try pressing one again to make sure that I pressed it hard enough because, okay, just succeed
Okay.
Okay?
Oh, okay,
well, I guess, I guess,
Well, I heard it that, I heard it that time
Yeah
Okay,
well, anyways, you guys only get a penny a can.
Well, when you buy like, uh, canned drinks and stuff like that, do they charge you for the deposit?
Uh, no,
you probably get charged like a nickel or something like that.
Yeah.
Exactly
and so it's like they charge you for the deposit,
so when you turn in the cans unsmashed, you're just, like, reimbursed.
Oh, okay.
Type of thing.
Okay,
no,
they don't charge us that extra nickel.
That's sort of nice, though
Yeah,
it, it really is.
Really what happens is we just get a penny a can back off the, off the price, if you want to think of it that way.
Uh-huh.
So when we get like, uh, uh, a twelve pack, then that's like twelve cents back.
Yeah,
so you guys can actually get ahead
Yeah
But, uh, they have sort of like, uh, things that you you're not like reimbursed for or paid for.
Like we can recycle, uh, clear glass, brown glass, green glass. Uh, and milk jugs and, uh, newspapers, you know,
Yeah.
everyone does newspapers.
Yeah,
yeah,
everybody does newspapers.
But, that, that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
But they, they said they can't be smashed or else, uh,
it doesn't fit in their little containers
and they're not reimbursed by the, the people who are over them or something.
Well, shoot, maybe what we ought to do is start sending unsmashed, uh, Pepsi cans and whatever up there
Yeah
Exactly,
yeah,
send it to this address,
no
But, uh, let's see,
they said that, how, ways, can encourage recycling, uh,
I, I, I tell you what, what really works, uh, at least down here is, if there is, if there is some, even some money basically to take care of the gas to recycle it, you know what I mean, then people tend to do it. Uh,
Yeah,
that's,
In other words, taking care of the environment is, is all well and good
Uh-huh.
but if it's going to cost you to take care of the environment, they're not quite as, uh likely to do it as if, uh, if you get something back for it. You know.
As likely to do it.
Yeah.
Yeah,
that's true.
And, uh, so, you know, if there are some energy savings or if there is some significant savings, anything that they can pass on to the consumer, you know, it kind of reminds me of using an A T M card, you know, to get money or doing your banking.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
You know, if it's free, people will use it,
if it costs them something, then they're not as likely to use it.
Yeah,
exactly.
You know.
But, uh, I know we had a problem down here with, uh, oil, people taking oil out of their cars and just putting it down the you know, the the drain sewer.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
And, uh, all that, because there was,
apparently a lot of people, you know, every time they change the oil,
they just dump all the their old oil down there.
Uh-huh.
Now they're starting to recycle that stuff.
Oh, that's good.
Uh, another thing I thought of, I guess, to recycle would be like clothes, because I mean everybody gets rid of their clothes sometime or other.
And one way that we do it sort of in, in Iowa is that we can take some of our clothes to the consignment shops.
Yeah.
And that way, you know, you don't get near enough as, as much as you bought it for,
but you, you got the use out of it
and what you're going to basically donate to a Goodwill or whatever, anyways, you can get a little bit of money for.
Yeah.
And so that's something that I've never,
Yeah.
I, we're, we're new to Iowa
so that's something that I hadn't, you know, looked into before.
But that's one way to sort of get money and still recycle, I guess.
Yeah,
I know a lot of places, they, uh, uh,
Okay.
Okay,
I guess we're ready to start.
Well, I guess, what part of what part of the country do you live in?
I'm in Dallas, Texas.
Oh, okay.
What about yourself?
Well, I'm also in Dallas.
Okay.
The reason that I ask is the two conversations I've had, have been out of state.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, have you always lived here in Dallas
and,
No,
I've lived here for almost five years now.
I see.
And I'm a, uh,
before that I was at school in Rochester, New York
and I'm originally from Boston.
Oh, well, you are seeing quite a different climate and quite a different neighborhood.
That's right,
but I like it.
You probably have enjoyed getting away from the snow.
Well, I missed it at first,
but now I go back there
and I'm a real wimp about the cold
So I like it here.
Yeah.
It's nice.
Well, that's good.
I, I have lived in Texas essentially all my life.
Uh-huh.
Around in Texas
and, uh, I have traveled up in the northeast and around and have enjoyed it.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, I don't know,
I'm not sure I would want to take on those winters.
I'm getting older and, uh, not sure that's something I want to do.
I know.
I live, uh, over in the Lake Highlands area if you're familiar with that.
Uh, tell me where that is, uh,
Okay.
I, I probably do know,
Uh, you,
but I don't know it by that name.
This is pretty well where L B J and Audelia, Skillman cross.
Okay.
Sure.
We're just north of, uh, White Rock Lake.
Oh, okay,
yeah,
I know that area.
That's a nice area. Oh, that's quite a range.
Well, we have some very nice homes here in this area.
Uh, my particular,
I guess they want us to describe the area,
so, uh my particular area, the homes run anywhere from about sixty-five, eighty thousand dollars on up to probably half a million.
Yes,
uh, the homes that were here earlier were smaller.
Now they've gotten larger and larger as, as they have developed the land.
And, of course, it's pretty static right now
and all the values over here have dropped off because of the economy.
Uh-huh,
yeah.
How about you?
Well, I am, uh, I'm, gosh, I'm barely in Dallas.
I'm just north of Addison Airport up on the tollway.
Okay.
Okay.
And, I guess we have a similar situation.
I mean, we've got houses two streets away that are probably around seventy, eighty thousand
Uh-huh.
and then we've got Bent Tree right across the street
so I don't I don't even know how high those go,
Okay.
but some of those are pretty big.
Yes,
those are over a million.
Yeah
So, it's, that's the strange thing about, I guess, Dallas because back where I'm from, you wouldn't have that sort of a variation at all.
They'd all be pretty similar to one another within a, a couple miles.
So,
Well, we have suffered from real lack of land use planning in Dallas.
Yeah.
Not as bad as Houston,
but, exactly what you're describing is what happens all over.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
I've noticed that.
Well, now, do you live in a, a home, or zero lot home,
Uh-huh.
or,
Uh, we've got a house,
let's see,
we moved in about four years ago
and it was, it had previously been unoccupied,
but it had existed for three years.
Okay.
This is a whole block of homes that, uh, a builder built all of them
and, I guess he, he did some crazy thing to get some extra money from the bank and then ran away, type of deal
So the whole block was all foreclosed.
Oh.
And, so, some were vacant for quite a while before they, you know, they finally sold them because there were so many.
Well, your, was your house in good shape,
was it damaged?
Yes,
no,
the only thing that we were worried about was the air conditioner because they'd have it just running constantly with the doors and windows open
Oh, it was?
But,
yeah.
Oh.
So we just, you know, we bargained to get an extra warrantee on that.
I see.
And, uh, we're really, we haven't had any problems
and, you know, we had originally thought we'd have to get a fix up special or something because being from the northeast we figured we couldn't afford anything.
But the prices are much lower here
and this was definitely not a fix up special,
but I'll tell you,
it takes all my time
Between, we put in our own sprinkler system
and I just finished repainting the exterior and, you know, making drapes and buying furniture,
it's just a money pit. Really is.
Yes,
I am familiar with that.
I, where I live is a house that's seventeen years old when I bought it.
And we bought it from someone who was in it,
but before they had it, I found out after I had been in the house, it, it had sat empty for the better part of a year.
Uh-huh.
And I'm not sure what happened,
but I do know the folks that we bought it from had done virtually no maintenance for, for about four years.
Oh, no.
I, I, I found a lot of things,
but,
I say Arlington, Texas now because I talked one night to somebody in Arlington, Virginia.
Oh, my,
yeah.
Well, and Plano, Texas rather than Plano, Illinois.
Oh, do they have one?
Yes,
they do.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Well, I learned something already
Yeah.
Well, let's see,
the three questions are what, uh,
How much time do you spend with your children?
Very little. Because they're grown.
Oh
What?
They're grown and gone.
Oh, yeah,
well, mine is, uh, down at U T Austin at college
and the other one is in high school.
Huh.
So you do spend less time then?
Yeah
because they don't want to know, they almost don't want to know us.
They want to be with their friends.
How old are your kids?
Are they married or what?
Uh, yes,
I have, uh, two married, two and then two almost married
and the other two, I'm not sure.
Well, Two two, two, uh, uh, for sure are single.
Oh, boy, you have a lot of kids.
Yeah,
we have, between the spouse and myself we have six.
Oh, well, that's kind of nice, though.
You you shouldn't be lonesome on a holiday, huh?
Because I came with a split family
and she had,
Well, no,
there is so much of them are gone
and they're doing their own things
and and a lot of times they, they've got, you know, uh when the holidays,
Well, that's true.
They have to see their other parent, I guess too.
Yeah
and sometimes they want to do their own thing,
so sometimes it's just spouse and me.
I know.
And, and you know what?
What?
Sometimes that's okay.
I know
Because,
That's what my mother said one time.
You know, right,
because who says that they just must got to come over to see us all the time for the holidays.
Right.
No,
that's true,
and if they force them to, you know that's not good either.
Yeah.
That becomes a drudgery
Well, do they all live in the area?
got, of the six, we've got four around here.
Uh-huh,
oh, wow.
Uh, you know, well, we're talking like north Texas.
Uh-huh.
And then, one is in Vermont, uh, Montpelier Montpelier, Vermont
Golly.
and the other one is in Everett, Washington.
How did they end up so far away?
Well, that is, that's, the, the, my little pair. And my second marriage.
Uh-huh.
Uh, and, uh,
Those are the youngest ones?
Yeah,
well, the
the, the, the, the fourth and fifth child of the of the, of the, uh, six are the two that are scattered like that.
Uh-huh.
Boy, that's, those are a long way.
And, Well, they wanted to go, uh,
How,
J R, my, my, my last son or my middle son, excuse me, fell in love with Washington state
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and the, the, the, third daughter fell in love with, uh, uh, Vermont.
Vermont.
So,
So they wanted to make their homes there.
Yeah,
that's where they've gone to make their homes.
My goodness.
Are they, are those two married?
No.
They, uh, just working up there or going to school or what?
Well, uh, let's see,
yeah,
I guess you'd say J R is working, going to trying to go to school.
Uh-huh.
I wish to God he would go back.
Oh, they do. Especially if they, if they're meant to, I think.
Yeah.
Well, I certainly hope so.
I mean, I've got a daughter that's a sophomore at U T
and I'm, I'm going to U T A right now myself
so it's never too late.
Uh-huh.
Well, it's, oh, I agree it's never too late.
Right.
And,
Especially in some of these schools around here, I think they have about twenty percent older students.
Yeah,
and when you're saying older, we're talking fifty up.
Oh, yeah,
I've seen some people that are really quite up there you know they look like in their very late sixties
Uh-huh.
and I say that's great, why not, you know.
Oh, my,
uh-huh.
Yes,
why not because that's a, a lot of times, well, it's,
I believe that, uh, we in that category,
and I'm not in that category quite yet
No.
but, we are seasoned minds.
Oh, yeah,
you're really ready to learn finally.
Yes,
uh-huh.
I mean, I don't know why I even went to college when I was seventeen.
Yeah,
it was,
It was a complete waste of money.
Yeah,
settle down,
we know what we're wanting to, to, uh, study
and, uh we know our limitations.
Right,
right.
We,
Right
and, uh,
And we don't try to burn the candle at both ends and in the middle altogether.
No.
We don't go out drinking beer till three and try to go to class in the morning
At seven,
yeah.
We're past, yeah, we're past that age
Yes,
we're, we're smarter now.
We know what we can do
Yeah,
right,
uh, so let's see.
So mine I don't spend a whole lot of time because they're not here.
Uh-huh.
And so the second question, forgot what the second question,
What was it, uh,
what do the trends in families
and do we approve what other, families do.
Well, uh, the trends in the families were to spread apart, do your own thing.
That's right.
But I have seen  lately, yes, I am seeing, I'm seeing a change that, whoops, government can't do it,
A change?
I was going to say the same thing.
schools are not able to
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and between a person's religion, uh, their, their faith in their maker whether, you know, uh, whether you're Christian or Jewish  or whatever, uh,
Right.
Right.
and the family
Are going to have to solve some of the problem, huh.
those are the two that can, that, that have the wherewithal
and, of course, Judeo-Christianity, uh, and of the Jewish folks, too, believe that the family unit is the one that was given the, uh, uh, mission by the Lord to do this very thing.
Uh-huh.
So when another group of, of, uh, people step in, try to do it, they're, they're tromping on our territory, so to speak,
so
Oh.
I firmly believe that, uh,
Okay.
You think you're getting your money's worth?
Uh, never
Uh, the only thing I'm, I'm thankful of is that we don't have to pay any income tax in, in Texas.
Well, that's probably the next year's agenda.
Yeah.
Boy, I tell you what,
I sure hope they don't pass something like that.
Oh, yeah.
They're finding a way to tax you every time you turn around,
and I, I think one way or the other, we're going to pay for the bureaucracy, I guess.
Uh, it's one area that is really, I, I think hurting the economy more than anything.
I think the taxes have just, every time you turn around they, they have taking more bite out of the dollars that are available for spending for any kind of products,
and I, I, I think that is probably as big a item fueling the recession as anything right now.
Well, I, I tell you, um,
I remember every time, it seems like, we turned around, they're adding another nickel or a few more cents onto the price of gasoline.
That's right.
That's right.
And actually, that one, the, the, the taxes on gasoline don't, don't bug me as much as, uh, uh, what are we, eight and a quarter percent sales tax?
Yep,
that's right.
And every time you go to buy anything now, uh,
even, you know, they, they tax food.
That's the one that really kind of bothers me.
Well, I think that, uh, that the problem with the sales tax, of course, is it's an unfair tax across the board, uh, as far as ability to pay, which allegedly, allegedly taxes are supposed to be directed towards.
But, uh, now people with the lowest income pay a hundred percent almost of, you know, taxes on everything they buy, and where people that make, you know, two hundred, three hundred thousand dollars a year, certainly a portion of that, they aren't going to be paying taxes on, you know.
And, uh, that's the unfair equity, inequities of sales tax as a main source of revenue,
but I don't think it is anymore, not in Texas anyway.
Oh, I got you, because people that, uh, don't make very much money wind up spending it all.
That's right,
that's right.
Yeah,
whatever they spent it on, they have to pay tax on.
That's right,
that's right.
And that's the unfairness of the thing,
but, uh, I think taxes generally are unfair
so
what do you think of that new luxury car tax, anything over ten or thirty thousand dollars?
Well, you know, like other things, if they don't affect you, you don't worry about them too much.
I have trouble buying a twenty thousand dollar car still,
so it doesn't,
I, I think, uh, you know, generally the prices of cars have gotten out of line, which is, uh, you know.
Oh, sure.
And, uh, I guess if people got thirty, forty thousand bucks to spend on a car, uh, that's their prerogative, you know
I, I, I don't have a whole of sympathy on that .
You, maybe you buy that, you know,
and I don't mean to be knocking, uh,
No,
uh, no,
I haven't,
but it, it to me it seems really interesting that they come along and add another ten percent tax, uh, on top of it.
And there's an awful lot of cars that cost more than thirty thousand.
Yeah,
there are,
there are.
And the idea of that kind of taxation is to have people think twice on putting their money into that, I guess, you know, unless they really want it, buy something that, you know,
more, well, it, it's just like having taxes on, or exemptions for kids, you know.
It's a way of increasing the population, that, that was one of the initial ideas of, you know, giving exemptions on kids, on, on federal taxes.
Yeah.
And where you exempt things, like, uh, uh, one of the best things I heard on taxes to stimulate the economy, someone, brilliant deductor, probably Lloyd Bentsen, said that all, you know, if they gave back the deductions on credit cards on your federal taxes people would probably be, you know, spending more money using their credit cards.
Right.
Right.
Now, I don't know if that's true or not,
but if you look on all interest things, not just credit cards, but on your cars and, you know, any kind of interest that you're paying, from a personal point of view, that might make certain sense in stimulating consumer purchasers.
Sure.
So that's a lot of the games that politicians play on where they want to go, you know, tax things that they don't, you know, to a degree, well, like booze, you know,
example, they keep raising the taxes on booze,
it gets to the point, you know, it makes drunks sober, you know
They quit buying it.
Well, what, what about the taxes on cigarettes?
Well, tell me about your home.
Okay.
Uh, right now we're living in,
well it's me, my wife and, uh, two young boys.
And, uh, right now we're in a, uh, I guess it's either a zero lot line or a garden home. Which you might call it.
Uh-huh.
So we don't have a, a big yard. Uh,
but, uh, when my wife and I first moved in, it was just the two of us.
So it was enough.
Uh-huh.
Uh, and it's, uh, I guess what they call a story and a half.
Because it's not a full two story. Where, you know, everything on top is on bottom.
Yeah.
So, it's got real high ceilings on half the house
and the other half is just standard sized ceilings.
Huh.
And, uh, it's about a five year old house now.
It sounds nice.
It's, uh, pretty nice.
Unfortunately, the builder who built it went out of business already
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
It was a,
Landmark is the one who built it.
Yeah.
Well, you know, these guys that gambled high lost big you know.
Yeah.
That's true.
And, uh I'm insulating myself from that problem.
Exactly what happened to them.
I'm building my own house.
Oh, that's nice.
And as I look out the window of my trailer, I can envision all the insulation that's going up today
Oh, really.
Yeah.
Are you doing it yourself?
Yeah.
Wow.
I used to be a builder.
Oh, that's nice.
And I retired about five years ago and  started college.
Oh, I see.
Huh.
And now I'm a college educated builder
There's still no work, you know.
Yeah.
So, uh, you know, I decided this summer that, uh, you know, we had enough credit on the credit cards to buy the materials
so I did.
That's great.
And, uh, see the, the, the state has a law that says you cannot borrow the money to build your own home.
is that so?
I didn't know that.
You can borrow the money to pay somebody else to build your house
but you can't borrow the money to build your own.
Well that sounds kind of dumb.
Well, it's to protect the, the banks from guys that say yeah I want to build my own house and go out a build a spec home
Uh-huh.
and then it doesn't sell
and then the bank's  holding the bag.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well.
Huh.
As, as you know, anything that involves the government is, works half as well as it's supposed to costs three times as much. Right?
That's right
Hence the savings and loan problem we have.
Yeah,
that's true.
But, uh, you know, my home is, uh, fairly simple.
It's designed to be added on to.
Uh-huh.
That's good.
Yeah.
Well, I figure it's just me and my wife
but, you know, I like to do stuff with my hands and whatnot,
so I want  to have a shop.
Yeah.
How big a lot do you got it on?
Ten acres.
Wow.
That's nice.
That's real nice.
Well, yeah.
It's really nice too because I can't see my nearest neighbor.
He's on the other side of a hill.
Oh.
And my second nearest neighbor is a dot on the horizon.
Seriously.
God.
That's pretty good.
Well, in the winter time, I can see, see another guy
but, you know, he's
Uh-huh.
I can just make out his place, you know. I've got a thirty mile view to the east and about ten miles to the north.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh,
Oh, that's pretty good.
Yeah.
Well, I took a lot of time in choosing this site because the, the house has no heating or air conditioning.
Uh-huh.
Oh, you, you, you don't plan on putting any, any of that in?
Well, it's got a, a very small furnace.
Uh-huh.
And a, uh, we'll use a wood burning stove as well.
Yeah.
But, in the house itself, I've been working inside, you know, these, these many months
Uh-huh.
and I have not had to use the heat.
Wow.
Because it's all geothermal.
Yeah.
That's pretty good.
And with all the,
see I've got,
on the south side is all glass.
Well, as much as I could get in it, you know. And, uh, the east side is glass.
Yeah.
I've got one, two, three, four, five, six windows in the east side on forty-eight feet.
So it's almost all glass.
Wow.
And, uh,
My wife would love that
Oh, yeah.
I mean, you know.  There's no place in the house where you can stand and not see four windows.
She loves lots of windows.
That's great.
So, uh,
Is it a single story?
Well, not really.
It's, uh, it's on the side of a hill.
Oh, I see.
So the first, you know,
the, the, the,
what I call residential level at the side that's in the hill is about four feet deep.
Uh-huh.
Um, I see.
And the side that's on the, uh, the other side is about six feet high.
Oh.
So I've got a pretty good grade there.
Yeah.
And then when I put the verandas which will be twelve feet out all the way around on the north, south and east sides that will define the shop.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
that's kind of like, like a Victorian style?
Exactly.
Yeah.
I, I've always liked that.
The,
you know, I, we don't have much yard
but I built a small deck in the back.
Uh-huh.
But, you know, I, I see these magazines where, you know, dig your, your own deck.
Uh-huh.
I, I kind of wish I had them, those size property and, and, uh, one with a grade on it so I can build a real nice deck.
Uh, what sort of camping do you like to do the most?
Uh, well, I, I do, uh, real rough type camping.
I have a motor home
Huh, rough type, huh
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh.
Oh, yeah,
motor homes can be a lot of fun.
Yeah,
they really are.
Yeah.
They really are.
I've, I've enjoyed it.
I've never actually done any, uh, like tent camping,
Uh, that can be a lot of fun, too.
Yeah.
How about you?
Well, so far my wife and I have pretty much had to stick with tent camping.
Uh-huh.
This summer we went to, uh, the Smokey Mountain National Park. And, uh, stayed about three or four days in there.
Oh, how great.
It was wonderful.
Oh, yeah.
Nights were cool enough to where they're comfortable.
Um.
And the days were nice and warm
and, it was beautiful, beautiful few days.
Uh-huh.
That's great.
It worked out particularly well, especially considering she was, what, six months pregnant.
Uh-huh.
So I don't know,
it worked pretty well.
It was one of those, uh, those, dome type pop up tents.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Nice and quick and easy to put up.
Yeah.
Packs away nice and small
and, about had to be something like that getting around in a Pinto.
Well, that's true,
that's true.
It was a lot of fun.
I guess the last real, uh, camping trip I took was, has been a couple years ago.
Oh, yeah?
Uh, I went to California up to the Sequoias.
Wow,
that's got to be beautiful territory.
Yeah,
it's gorgeous,
I love the big trees.
Just, just the drive up through, uh, up the coast line and then cut over in, into the, into the parks, it's gorgeous, though.
Yeah.
What, like, Sequoia National Park?
Uh-huh.
Uh.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
I had been there before when I lived in California,
but that's my first trip back in, oh, goodness, um, um, thirty years maybe
Yeah.
But, that is God's country,
it has to be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do they still have the, uh, the scenic, uh, roadways that cut through the center of some of those trees?
Uh, no,
they don't,
they,
the last one, well,
the first time I was there, the, the tree was still standing,
but it has since come down.
Okay.
Yeah.
But, they are huge.
If you've never seen them, it's, it's very awe inspiring.
No,
so far, New Orleans is far west as I've gotten. Well, New Orleans and, uh, Minneapolis.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
well, there is lots of pretty country further west.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
We're hoping one of these days soon after we're out of school to head that way.
Yeah.
Yeah,
and you just need to take the little one. Show them all the, all the pretties before they go away.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They seem to be trailing out quickly.
Yeah
because there is lots to see
There is, course, the the Grand Canyon
and, uh, the Painted Desert is, is real pretty, in a different sort of way.
Yes.
And, course, the, the Sequoias and the Redwoods and and you get up into Bryce Canyon and Yellowstone
and, uh, the Grand Tetons are gorgeous, too.
I imagine.
Yeah,
I would imagine they are.
Course, I, I guess I'm partial to big tree country.
Yeah.
I don't know why I got stuck down here in Texas now
I think it's called a job,
I don't know
Uh, not a whole lot of forestry down there, is there?
No
not around here.
Oh.
Not around here
Place is forested with with those concrete trees.
Uh-huh,
lot, lot of concrete and glass, you know.
Yeah.
Well, I guess that's God's place, too.
Anyway, Uh, what do you figure has been the longest trip you've taken camping?
Yeah.
Uh, probably the, the last one that I went to California
I took, uh, three weeks.
Three weeks.
And I was actually on the road a little more than three weeks.
Yeah,
the whole family, then, was in on this?
Uh-huh.
Everybody
Yeah.
Yep.
That would have to be a blast.
Yeah,
it really was, it was great.
What,
well, you went out from Texas up in, into that area?
Uh-huh,
yeah.
We went, uh, we took the southern route and went, went through, uh, uh, the Grand Canyon, again
and we stopped at, uh, uh, Las Vegas for a couple of nights, and then, uh, went into Malibu in California over on the coast.
Yeah.
And then we went up the, the Big Sur Highway all the way up to San Francisco. And, uh, and then cut across through the wine country. And then went down to, to, uh, Sequoia National Park.
Okay.
Oh, wow.
Okay,
Big Sur Highway, that's, uh, where you're pretty much in view of the ocean almost all the time aren't you?
Oh, yeah.
Okay, um,
do you have any pets now?
Well, we don't right now,
no.
We've, uh,
I grew up with, uh, with pets.
My folks and I always had a dog and a cat,  some,  birds,
Yeah.
but, uh, right now we don't have anything.
Oh, okay.
Um, that,
What about you?
a matter of choice, or compulsion?
Well, we've just, uh,
it seems like, we've always been at a place where we'd have to go away for the summer or something
and, uh, it was,  never convenient to have anything.
Yeah.
we were thinking about getting a dog if we get into a house.
Yeah.
Uh, someplace where there, you know,
we can take care of it and everything.
We've got,  some children who would just really, uh, enjoy having an animal, you know, a dog, I think
Yeah.
and, What about you all?
Yeah.
Well, right now I'm a student,
and campus housing does not even allow thinking about that
Oh, no.
No,
we almost got chased out of here for feeding a stray cat.
Is that right?
Yeah.
They're very strict about it.
But you like, uh, you like pets and things?
Oh, I love animals.
Oh, yeah .
I was raised,
our house when I, when I was growing up there was almost never, uh, at least one cat in the house.
Uh-huh.
It was almost always at least one cat, sometimes, you know, like fifteen or twenty. But, uh, always cats in the house.
Oh, yeah.
We, we,  enjoyed them.
Oh.
We like, we like pets,
but, uh, you know, you've got to deal with, uh, taking care of them and, and feeding them and everything like that.
Yeah.
And our kids are,
we've got some children
and they're not, not used to it, you know, on a daily basis.
They, they, uh,
How old are your kids?
Oh, from fourteen down to seven.
Okay.
You sound like you've got some small ones in the background.
One.
Is that right?
Our first.
He's about eleven weeks now.
Oh, great.
Yeah.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
Where are you from?
Uh, originally?
Uh-huh.
West Virginia.
Okay.
Um, I don't know how familiar you are with that area of the country
but,
I've been to Charleston.
Charleston, West Virginia?
Yes,
uh-huh.
Okay,
that's pretty much the south end of the state, or the southern quarter of the state, anyway?
Uh-huh.
Okay,
in the north end of the state, you've got that little narrow strip of West Virginia going up between Ohio and Pennsylvania
Uh-huh.
Right at the base of that northern peninsula is my hometown.
Uh-huh
Well, that's, yeah, that's interesting.
So it's really up north in the country, really, .
Yeah,
I guess so.
yeah.
It's,
well, um, my parents' house is like three miles south of where the Mason-Dixon Line would have hit the Ohio River had it continued that far.
Gosh.
I see.
So,
It's pretty nice country up there?
Oh, it's beautiful.
Hills, or what?
Uh, well, from my neck of the woods, it's hilly.
Uh-huh.
Um, you know, uh, maybe three hundred, four hundred feet elevation, uh,  type variations from the valleys up to the hills, the hilltops.
Uh-huh
Is it farmland?
Um, not a lot of farmland there.
Mostly it's, uh,
I mean, you know, there's, you know, individuals with their own, own uh, growing their own food.
Uh, most of the agriculture, it's more in the way of, uh, sheep and cattle.
Oh, yes.
And even that's, you know, small time mostly.
Sure.
Uh, the biggest chunk of what's going on there is, is, uh, industry.
Uh-huh.
It's coal mines and chemical plants and power plants.
Okay.
Uh, aluminum plants.
There's like two aluminum plants .
What are you, what are you studying there at Heidelberg ?
Computer engineering.
Oh, yeah.
What year?
Uh, just finished up my fourth semester.
Well, great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I hope that works out well.
Yeah,
it's a big change.
Yeah.
I spent,  twenty years as a mechanic
What's,
so,
Oh, did you?
Yeah.
Well, you've got some experience behind you in the work force.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are you, uh, shooting for a bachelor's now, or a master's, or what?
I'm working on a bachelor's degree.
Oh, okay,
good.
I'm working on a bachelor's degree.
It'll be
Hope it's a good program there.
Pardon?
Hope it's a good program there.
Uh, it seems to me, from what I've been able to find out.
Yeah,
good.
That's considered a pretty good program.
It's nice and small, which means, you know, if you don't get the class this semester, then you've got to wait or three or four you know, anywhere from two to four semesters to get,  it again.
Huh
But, uh, it's worth it once you get it.
Well, yes,
that's good.
And probably a good, uh, student teacher ratio and things.
Oh, yeah,
yeah.
Yeah
Most the class are pretty small.
Good.
That works out real well.
Well, I, I was wondering what, if you all were to get a pet, like if you were to move into an apartment
or a house somewhere, what would you get?
Uh, well, um, first off we'd probably wind up with a, a cat or maybe a puppy.
Uh-huh.
I, I, I'm partial towards the larger dogs.
Uh-huh.
Um, our last, we've, we've had a couple of cats before we moved on campus.
Uh-huh.
Uh, had a hamster or two,
and they, they got,  to be a lot of fun.
A hamster.
Oh, yeah.
Uh, it's amazing how much character,
Okay.
Your family have reunions on a regular basis?
Probably, once every five years.
Once every five years?
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Uh, you have got a pretty big family.
Yeah
and that is the hardest part about getting the the stuff together
and everyone is spread out all over Timbuktu.
Oh, yeah.
And you?
Yeah,
we have a pretty big family,
but most of us,
well, uh, uh, I am originally from West Virginia.
Uh-huh.
Most of the family is right in the West Virginia, uh, uh, what they call Tri-State area, uh, northern West Virginia, eastern Ohio, southwestern Pennsylvania.
Yeah.
Most everybody is right in that area.
That makes it a lot easier.
A lot more convenient.
That is why we only do it once every five or ten years.
Yeah.
because it is always that hard to get everyone together.
Yeah.
They put one together for our family about once every June.
It was on my grandmother's birthday,
but she is, she is gone now.
Yeah,
see that is kind of what happened with ours.
That is why we have not had one in a long time.
Yeah.
Uh.
So, so, to make one successful, I mean, I mean what do you all do.
Oh,
Do you all just start planning real far ahead of time?
Pardon.
Uh, do you all start planning real far ahead of time?
Well, no.
There is kind of a set pattern to it.
There is, uh,
so, uh, the day it happens is ninety-eight percent of the planning usually.
Oh, really
Yeah.
Uh, we, uh, get together, at the, uh, the park, uh, the, uh, the park, and playground area of the Church I was raised in
Yeah.
and, uh, everybody brings lots of food
and some put up the volleyball net and sit around and tell stories and catch up and play volleyball all day and get really fat
Eat a lot.
Oh, gosh.
It is a lot harder for us because we are like I said we are spread out
Yeah.
and so we have to plan anywhere from six, well really probably a year ahead of time so that everyone, can uh, start their, uh, vacation time.
Schedule vacation time
and yeah.
We
uh, Sat, uh, Sunday afternoon or, uh, sometimes it has been like on a Saturday afternoon.
Uh-huh.
Usually, it is like Sunday afternoon
and most people do not have more than you know a couple of hours drive at tops to get there and back.
Yeah.
Yeah,
is that one of your, uh,
I mean, uh,
Well, where I am calling from is southern Mississippi.
So, we have got, uh, uh, my wife and I have, uh, a bit longer ways to go than most.
But, you also manage to make them.
uh, actually, we, we have only made one of them since we got married about four years ago. One of the family reunions.
Yeah.
But we are both in school
so that makes it kind of tough.
Yeah.
They usually, uh, they have been happening, uh, just after the summer semester starts.
You can't really get away.
Usually not.
We managed to get to one.
That was before I started school
and she took that summer off.
But, uh,
Well, now that we have been talking about it, I, uh, I am kind of getting home sick now.
Because it has been over three years since I have been home  to see my grandparents.
Oh goodness.
Well, my, my grandfather is the only one that is still around.
Yeah.
And see, my grandmother is the one that use to plan this stuff basically.
Yeah.
So, unless the aunts and uncles really get on the ball and put stuff together, it is kind of like.
She was like the glue,
so.
Yeah,
I understand.
Where is home for you?
Originally, uh, I, uh, was born in Missouri.
Yeah.
But, uh, you know, we have relatives scattered out all over Louisiana, Mississippi, uh, here in Texas
Yeah.
but it is harder for everyone to get in, get home.
Yeah.
Well, maybe this year you can find a more central location.
Well, but the majority of them are in, like, just like how you said in close, close quarters.
So it is easier for us few stragglers to go home.
Oh, okay.
Then the majority of them are still in the Missouri area.
Yeah.
Okay.
You know our family right now, uh, the most of it, there is only a few stragglers, uh, with any distance.
There is one cousin out in Colorado, uh, uh, some cousins over in Phoenix, uh,
I got a sister over in, in, uh, Washington State
Uh, the rest of them are within, you know, a couple hours drive.
Well, uh, how do you all communicate? Like to plan it and every thing.
Do you all just call each other up on the phone and say this is the weekend we are going to do it,
or do you all like mail out stuff?
That is pretty much it.
Yeah.
It is going to be such and such, uh, weekend
and, uh, you all come.
Yeah.
That is about it
And you know this is the standard pattern.
It, uh,
everybody brings their favorite dish
and, somebody brings the volleyball net,
somebody brings a whole lot of ice for the watermelon
and,
Well, uh, uh, I guess probably the last one I went to I met so many people that I had not seen in probably ten, over ten years.
It was like, don't you remember me.
And I am like no
Am I related to you?
Yeah.
I know.
I know they pay taxes,
but they don't
Yeah.
you know, they, they get paid a hundred and twenty-five grand a year. Which is more than twice my salary by quite a bit
Uh-huh.
and, you know, I'm going, like, I, I don't understand how they're supposed to be my servants and yet they're paid more than I am
Uh-huh.
and they work less, you know, less than I do.
Uh-huh.
Uh, the only the only problem I see with term limitations, uh, is that I think that the bureaucracy in our government as is in, with most governments is just so complex that there's a very you know, there, there is a learning curve and that, you know, you can't just send someone off to Washington and expect, you know, his first day to be an effective, uh, Congress person.
Uh, I think, I think there really is a, there's a lot they need to learn, you know, when you get there.
I think, I think that's true,
however, I think that's always been true.
Uh-huh.
I mean, that's true of the Presidency, too,
and we seem to be able to get along with the President turnover ever eight years or four years.
And, uh,
Yeah
but,
They,
I mean, there is a lot to learn,
but maybe it will keep them on their toes and a little bit more active in trying to catch up.
I think two years is too short.
Uh-huh.
I think it would have to be extended, uh, you know,
a term limitation for Congress would be like three terms or even four terms
or you would increase the length of the, of each term of a Congressman.
Uh, but maybe standardizing on, on a, a four year term for Congress Senate and the, the Presidency and then, uh, staggering them so that you don't,
Uh-huh.
we aren't tackling a massive ballot every four years.
Uh, the other, the other thing that, uh, bothers me about our system is just that, uh, in, for, for, in, in, in Congress the amount of power any, any particular Congress critter has is based on their seniority and how long they've been there
so it's, you know, for, you know, uh,
so unless you have actual, you know, across the board uh, limitations, the, uh, you know, the idea of,
well, we're going to just, we're,
I'm, I'm just going to, you know, vote, vote against the incumbent every time doesn't work,
you know, it's going to wind up hurting your state if all the other states aren't doing it at the same time.
Uh-huh.
I think, I think that that's true,
but then you have, you have the same abuse of power on the flip side of that coin.
Uh-huh.
Uh, the C I A is moving out to West Virginia which is a really stupid location for a large agency like that and for almost any agency.
I mean, the action isn't in West Virginia.
I hate to tell the the senator from West Virginia this information,
but it really doesn't
the world does not revolve around West Virginia uh, as far as this country is concerned,
the world does revolve around D C, you know as far as the politics in this country are concerned, the national politics
Uh-huh
and the C I A is a, a very large, very high profile agency and to have it located out in West Virginia,
yeah, you know,
it might only be two hour drive from here, but that's a two hour drive
Yeah.
and, uh, you know, it, it's a, I think it's a mistake to move large agencies like that
Uh-huh.
or is it the F B I.
I don't remember,
but I think there's,
Well, I mean,
I don't see why it makes a big difference the C I A because, you know, officially they don't do, they don't have any operations within the United States other than administrative.
Yeah,
that's officially.
Uh-huh.
I mean, we all know that that's not necessarily true.
But I, I think that there are, there are advantages to having seniority and, uh, or, not having a complete turnover every, some small number of years.
I think there are, I mean there's an institutional memory that you need to maintain.
Uh-huh.
But I think that, uh, all, with all the perks that we've given them,
I mean, I heard on the radio back a, a few weeks ago, uh, during the incidents where they were, you know, like they aren't paying their, their restaurant bills
and they're bouncing checks all over the place
Uh-huh
Uh-huh.
uh, one of the radio stations over here listed off every single one of the perks.
Well, we have,
we used to, when I was younger
Yeah.
we'd go every weekend.
All right .
But we haven't done whole lot of it lately.
Yeah.
I'm kind of into it.
I'm, uh, kind of a sailor.
Yeah.
I'm up in Minneapolis now,
but I was in Florida
so, uh, yeah,
I was kind of into it for a while there.
Were you sailboating?
Yeah,
for the most part.
Yeah
Yeah.
I had a little sail,
Well, we don't get to do a whole lot of that up here
No
Just motorboat's all we,
What part of Texas you from?
Uh, Nacogdoches.
Okay,
whereabouts is that?
That's between Houston and Dallas.
Okay,
all right.
It's the oldest town in Texas.
Is that right?
Yeah.
Wow,
that's pretty wild.
We have, uh, Lake Sam Rayburn out here and Lake Nacogdoches,
so we do a lot of boating on.
Okay,
so you got some lakes around you can do that on.
Yeah.
You do skiing and stuff
or,
Yeah,
little bit.
Yeah?
All right.
Just got through snow skiing
Yeah?
Yeah.
All right.
Just came back from Denver
but,
Yeah,
that sounds good.
Yeah,
we've, uh, our,
the snow up here is really kind of starting to melt now.
Yeah,
it, it, it was heavy when we were there though.
Yeah.
I didn't see any boats there, though.
Not, not, not too many, no.
But, uh, no,
I just got back from a weekend.
We went and, uh, had a, kind of a picnic in the woods type thing.
It was pretty nice,
but, uh, no, I, I have, uh, I had a boat last summer that I took out, a catamaran that I do, did a lot of sailing on and stuff.
Yeah?
That's a lot of fun,
but, uh, my parents are pretty big sailors, too,
they're kind of into it.
Uh, all we, all we have up here mostly bass boats.
Oh, yeah,
I guess it's pretty, uh, fishing's a pretty big thing, huh?
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Lot of, lot of fishing going on up here.
Yeah.
All right.
So, where about in Texas is that?
Is that centrally located
or,
It's, uh, well,
you ever heard of Lufkin?
Uh, no,
what, what major city is nearby?
Houston.
Okay,
and that's south or north of there or something?
Let me see,
Houston's north.
Yeah?
Okay.
Dallas is south.
Oh, okay,
all right.
Well, that sounds pretty good.
Does, uh,
I guess the weather,
does that stay pretty constant there
or,
It's, it's gets cold at night, and then warm in the afternoons.
Yeah?
Probably seventies, eighties in the afternoon.
Okay,
well, that's pretty temperate.
Yeah,
that's not too bad.
But, uh, yeah,
have you done, uh, any other boating then
or,
No,
I hadn't done any in a uh, lately,
but that's all,
I used to uh, have a friend that owned, his daddy owned a boat shop.
Yeah?
And we used to, when I was in high school, we used to go out, go boating every day just about.
Oh, that's great.
Yeah,
I,
And we had a different boat every day.
Oh, that's fantastic.
Yeah,
I used to, uh, kind of be that way myself when I lived in, uh, north western Florida in the panhandle,
I used to sail about every day.
I'd work, go to work,
I'd like to do some sailing.
Yeah,
it's a lot of fun.
It's, uh,
especially if you get a, a pretty fast boat
like those catamarans are pretty fast.
Yeah,
what,
You can actually,
Do, if you get one like that do have somebody teach you that
or they just,
Well, actually, I, I've known how to sail pretty much my whole life.
Uh, my family's pretty into it
Yeah.
and, uh, I took sailing lessons when I was about six
and then, uh
Is it pretty easy?
Yeah,
it, it's kind of a thing where you get the hang of it after a while, you know, uh, just kind of get a feel for the wind and how it works and, and the physics behind it.
Yeah.
So it's, it's not too bad,
it's pretty easy to get the hang of, I think
and, uh, generally, everybody I've, I've known has kind of gotten into it,
but some people are more motorboaters, you know which is fine.
Yeah.
Well, that's about all we have
Yeah,
yeah,
lot of people don't, don't see the excitement in sailing,
but, then, again, they may they may never have tried anything like, uh, catamaran
Uh-huh.
and, uh, that's when you really start getting into speed. You know,
you actually, some catamarans you can actually pull people behind, the skiers,
they get so fast, you know.
I didn't know that.
Yeah,
they get pretty quick,
but
That that would be something.
uh,
Yeah,
yeah,
I haven't, I haven't personally done that,
but, uh, the races,
I, I work with a guy right now that, uh, races catamarans in the summertime
Uh-huh.
and, uh, he's pretty gassed about it.
He's got a good, uh,
What kind of, what lake do you all use?
Well, he, uh, he's from Detroit
Uh-huh.
so he usually goes on one of the Great Lakes, I think, and does his sailing. Uh,
for me, I, I go back to Orlando, uh, in about a month, and so, down there, basically just go to the coast.
We're about thirty miles from Coco Beach and the east coast,
and there's a lot of places there you can go, you know.
So, uh, so that's a good thing.
Yeah.
But, yeah, so, what do you do for a job?
Uh, I build transformers.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Okay,
is that for T I
or,
No,
it's for Cooper Industries.
Okay.
Are they primarily electronic, then?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well
Well that,
they have a, you know, worldwide,
but
Right.
all we do here is make transformers electronics and stuff like that.
Oh, okay.
Great.
Yeah,
how do you like it down there in Texas?
It's real nice.
Yeah?
Been here all my life.
Oh, no doubt.
Yeah.
Okay.
I've never been to Texas.
I've been to Oklahoma,
but, uh, that's about as far as,
Oh, it's, Oklahoma's nothing like it.
Yeah?
Okay,
well, that's good, because I didn't like Oklahoma that well
Okay,
so what kind of luck you been having with buying and returning products?
Uh, not too bad really.
Uh, I had a razor that I got from Christmas that I just, I really didn't want it,
but I got it anyway
and, uh, it was a Braun
and they were real good about taking it back.
It wasn't a problem at all,
so, uh, I was able to get that back pretty easily.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, I don't know,
I really haven't returned a whole lot lately.
Have you?
I haven't had to.
It's, uh, the,
every so often,
I mean, I, I, I'm almost pushing it myself.
Maybe I'll buy a shirt from G I Joe's
and it shrinks too much
and say, well, I should have known better,
I mean, I bought it from G I Joe's
Um.
and it was probably made in China by slaves.
Right
But, uh, they, uh,
most of the time pretty careful shopping anyway, I get pretty good stuff.
Yeah.
I think that, uh, aside from the fact all markets being internationalized
Right
like,
and if you want to buy American it takes real extra work to find.
Exactly.
It's probably a Japanese or a Burmese company owning and hiring people in the U S
I was reading,
Right,
I was reading something in, uh, CONSUMER REPORTS tonight about that as a matter of fact.
They were talking about cars, uh, the car issue just came out. And about how, yeah, you'd like to buy an American car maybe
Uh-huh.
but, uh, you know, the transmission may be made in Japan or whatever.
Yeah.
Uh, like I've got an eighty-six Ford Ranger
and, and I know for a fact that the transmission is made by Mitsubishi.
Huh.
You know, so it's like, what are you going to do, you know?
Yeah,
really.
But, uh, that's the way it is.
I don't know,
I, I personally feel that, uh, uh, if the Japanese cars are better and Americans buy them, you know, that's the way it goes
and, you know, people, more than manufacturers should get a clue
and, you know, they should start making quality products.
Yeah,
I think they're beginning to.
The, the days of don't buy a car made on a Monday or a Friday are pretty much going away
and,
That's what I thought, too, until I saw the CONSUMER REPORTS issue.
Uh-huh.
Uh, they've got all the American, well, all the, all the cars rated, you know,
and, uh, essentially, I I don't see much of a trend.
I mean, just like every other time that you look at it, the Honda Accords and the Civics are right up there.
There's nothing wrong with them. Uh, and the same thing with most of the other Japanese cars.
But then again you look at a Ford or especially a Chevy
and they're pieces of junk.
I know.
Still at it, hey.
Yeah,
that's ninety, that's eighty-six through ninety-one.
Wow.
But, uh, I don't know,
maybe they're getting better,
maybe they're starting to get a clue. Uh,
Well, they got a three year lead time.
It probably won't start really showing up until ninety-four or so
Yeah,
that's just it.
Technology that comes in right now is, is probably not going to be implemented until, you know, quite a few years down the road.
But, uh,
The computer industry's where it's really dynamic especially for the consumer.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah,
because technology is so, uh, you know, volatile and changing all the time.
And can you think of any other industry where in software they,
Uh,
if the product is upgraded and a better version is put out, you'll get a free version in the mail .
Yeah.
Or, uh, maybe I say, well, you know, you paid five hundred bucks for this program, so send us twenty and we'll give you a really great upgrade.
Yeah.
It,
uh, they keep up with it pretty quickly
and that's, that's a real good thing, I guess.
Yeah.
Uh, I don't know.
And the hardware, well, I mean, all the chips that make up the hardware are a commodity
and the MacIntosh is about the only one that's going right forcing I B M and the rest of the D O S world to follow along.
Yeah.
Right,
they're kind of the leaders right now, you know.
I used to see all those commercials for Windows, you know,
and you're like, oh, gee, they're reselling a MacIntosh under a different name.
Really,
why don't they just say, almost a Mac for half the price.
Yeah, you know.
They'd sell more if they were honest.
Exactly,
almost is the key word, there, too, you know, because I, I really, I've used both
and I really don't see an advantage of Windows at all.
Yeah, it it's only an advantage for people who had to use pure D O S. base.
Uh,
Yeah, yeah that's true, too.
But, uh, I don't know,
I'm really, I've gotten a little bit out of the, the personal computer business just because I don't have one at home.
I, I do use a Mac at work
but, uh uh, I really don't, don't do much with it at home
Uh-huh.
but, uh,
Apple's sort of making a
and they're ones were
growling consumer, uh, need to worry about the Mac they're getting,
like if you bought a power book straight off, a lot of them had to go back.
They issued a recall because of improper shielding or possibly other problems with floppy drive.
Right.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
you sound like you must, uh, work in the computer business.
Yeah,
I have one,
I do desktop publishing at work
and I have a machine at home
and I belong to the user's group
and I, I've been a Mac fanatic since they came out.
Yeah?
All right.
But, uh, technically, I'm not actually in the industry.
I don't work a computer company.
No?
I'm an abuser.
Well, that's, that's all right.
But it's sort of like surfing on the wave of future shock to you know, keep up with the changes as they happen.
Yeah,
that's true.
Something that I find uncomfortable is, you know, you, you want to buy something, say you want to buy a personal computer
and you got to think about what kind of memory you want to get and what kind of technology that you want to go for, you know,
let, let's take the example, the modem for, you know,
Yeah.
Okay,
what baud rate do you get?
Well, you know, it used to be that you get a twelve hundred
So, um, how do you feel about the crime in your city?
Is it, uh,
Well, um, Minneapolis isn't too bad.
Uh, I know that there's been some increases in crime lately in terms of murders.
Uh-huh.
Uh, that's kind of gone up in scale and, and some other things.
Uh, I personally had a little experience the other day.
Uh, somebody broke my passenger window and stole a uniform out of my truck.
Oh, really.
But, actually, you know, when you look at, at Minneapolis as compared to where I used to live, it's really quite a bit better. Uh, because I came from Florida
Uh-huh.
and in Orlando, there's, crime is getting to be a bigger problem than ever,
so.
Oh, yeah.
What part of California are you from?
San Jose, California.
Oh, really?
I have a good friend there.
Here, you know, the real problems are the gangs.
Yeah .
A lot of gang related, a lot of murders, uh, just in general the whole,
we've only been here a couple of years.
Uh, before that we lived in Colorado
but in comparison to Colorado, it's real noticeable.
Oh yeah.
Uh-huh.
I mean you can just feel, I mean, I can just sense,
I mean I won't even, I won't go to the grocery store at night.
Yeah.
Yeah,
that's
You know.
And it, it's that kind of thing
and, uh,
That's really a shame when it has to constrain your activities like,
Yeah.
We have a neighborhood watch program in the house, uh, the development that we live in, which I think is a great way to reduce, uh, home theft, burglary, and things  of that sort.
Sure.
Do you have that where you live
or,
Well, uh, interestingly enough, right before I moved up here,
I'm an intern
and then I go  back down in May.
Uh-huh.
Uh, but in Orlando, before I moved up, we had a real problem with it.
Uh, we've been broken into in my apartment about four times in like two and a half weeks.
Oh, no.
And one of the things that I, I helped organize was a neighborhood watch type situation  down there.
Uh-huh.
Uh, because they were just,
it's one of those things where the new thing is that they operate in the daylight because  everybody went to work, you know,
Uh-huh.
and then the houses were left unguarded, uh,
but yeah,
I think given that people are pretty conscientious about it,
that's a good way to, to work it, with a neighborhood  watch.
Yeah.
Well, you know, uh, also I've heard that, uh, the newest thing is a lot of people are specializing in robbing people during the time they're home.  Like on the weekends.
Oh, is that right?
A high percentage of, uh, free time,
I think it's like fifty percent of most people's free time is, uh, spent doing yard work outdoors.
Oh.
So they wait while you're out, outdoors.
They know the house is unlocked
and then they just slip in. Slip in, slip out, you know.
That's amazing.
They know exactly what they're going for.
Yeah.
So, I've heard that's really on the rise as far as  uh, you know, a new type of crime.
Uh,
Yeah,
it almost seems like they're getting quite a bit smarter.
Yeah
Really, you know.
Unfortunately, yes.
Yeah,
unfortunately it's starting to really, you know, look at people's habits and  where they are at particular points of the day.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Like one of the guys I work with really laughs when he looks at Minneapolis because he's from Detroit
Uh-huh.
and, uh, the, the crime level there, of course, is quite a bit, quite a bit, uh, more pronounced, uh
Uh-huh.
but, uh, yeah.
I guess,
I mean,
I think we've got a neighborhood watch program here in Minneapolis,
I'm not real sure. Uh,
Yeah,
it helps to know your neighbors, you know.
They give you,
you're supposed to make lists of, uh, cars.
Like I know a lot of my neighbors right around my development. If I see a car that's unfamiliar, we, we have a list
is that what you, you did in your program? Where you have a list of license plates?
Pretty much.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was, I was basically, involved in that, in the organization of it.
Uh-huh.
And then I left right in the middle of it.
I'm not sure  where we went from there,
Oh, uh-huh.
but,
Yeah. Well.
Yeah,
that, that whole thing of being alert and kind of noticing your surroundings, noticing people who look suspicious uh, activities like that, sure.
Uh-huh.
I mean, you, you hate to be paranoid
but there are really only so many things you can do.
You can have the house alarm, uh neighborhood watch program, you know, uh, as a woman not go out at night
Yeah.
Yeah.
uh, you can do that which is what I choose to do.
Yeah.
One of the frustrating things about that is that you really are limited
Yeah.
even, even if you know that the threat is there it's against the law to set traps,
Uh-huh.
it's against the law to do a lot of things, you know.
They could basically, uh,
when I was getting robbed down in Florida, I was really considering electrifying doors  um, things like that like
Uh-huh.
That's,
Uh-huh.
they did in Miami that time.
But it's not, uh,
if you kill someone in your home, as long as they are in your home, it's considered self-defense though.
That's not always true.
It isn't?
No.
There was a, there was a case about two years ago where a guy knew he was going to get robbed
Uh-huh.
and essentially what he had done is set a, a a electrocution trap for the burglar in his own home.
Uh-huh.
Huh.
The guy came in while he was home
and, sure enough, he fell into the trap and was severely burned.
He didn't die,
but he was severely burned
and he took the guy to court and won a settlement.
Really.
Yeah.
So that really, that makes you think, you know.
Yeah.
It's like your hands are very much tied.
Yeah.
Well I think if, if you had a handgun though, in other words it wasn't premeditated, you had a handgun, it's the middle of the night, someone's
Uh, I've had, uh, three boys through, I guess, uh, some child care, each one of them
and now they're in school
so it's all over
but, uh, I guess I would say it's not easy to find what most parents would want.
Well I can profit by this because I'm due with my first in about three months.
Is that right
I guess, uh, the only rule, uh, I can think of is that I like to look for places with, uh, good respectable, nonprofit behind them like a university or a hospital or something like that.
If they're associated with a college or a university, they're usually a pretty good bet.
Huh.
Uh, I think it's sort of the opposite of what you would want when you buy a car or refrigerator something.
You'd like to get it from some good cutthroat capitalist company but not with child care.
I guess not,
I suppose you're absolutely right there.
Yeah.
For profit  places, I would really look at them awfully carefully
Uh-huh.
but, uh, when I was when my kids were young, I was teaching at a university
and, uh, the child care center associated with our university was quite good
so I felt confident that they'd do right.
Uh-huh.
Of,
aren't don't they kind of use them for, everybody kind of use them for guinea pigs? For their for their pet theories or some such thing?
Yes.
But, yeah,
I suppose, uh, if you're, if there is a psychology department or an education department around, you might find you might find that they're pushing one form of education or another,
I guess that's true.
But, uh, I never had bad experience in that respect
Of course, you also tend to get people that are associated with the university and the hospital as the parents,
and they, you know,
pretty good people
Um. Well, the thing I really worry about is, uh, the sexual abuse cases you read about.
Uh-huh.
And I mean you'd just feel awful if something like that happened.
Yeah.
I never really worry very much about it.
I tend to think those are very rare but quickly exploited and made public
so, I  never really worried too much about that being, uh, uh, the case with my boys.
Uh-huh.
Oh.
Uh, I, you know, I think those things get into the headlines immediately when somebody finds out about them
but
Uh-huh.
I don't think it's as common as, uh, the newspapers would make you believe
Uh-huh.
And another thing is cost.
Oh, yeah
I mean that,
I know so many of my friends I went to school with who are having babies right now
and they finding, in some cases they're finding it's just not worth it to work because it's all going out in daycare.
Right.
Um.
Well, in our case, we made the decision that my wife would stay home until the boys were, uh, in school.
And I'm really happy we did it, although it was very, very difficult.
And  I think it was the right thing to do
Um.
and we were, uh, we just decided that we would do it
and we went ahead
but, uh, not everybody can make that choice
and even, even though my wife wasn't working, we did have, uh, one or another of the boys in, uh, child care for just for part of the day. Uh, or a couple of days a week just so that, uh, other things could get done around the house and so on,
so, So, we did look around.
Huh.
I think my wife is much better than I am at that walking into a place and getting a feeling for whether it is a loving and caring place or not
and, uh  so I would always trust her judgment on that.
Huh .
Huh. Well I'm just thanking heaven.
My husband just got a new job.
His last company, he was only working four days a week.
Uh-huh.
So it's,
and he just got a new job.
He's getting lots of overtime,
he got a pay raise
and so I'm just grateful that we don't have to worry so much about my working or not.
There's absolutely no question that you're going to be the best child care provider for that kid
so, yeah, do it as long you can
I suppose.
But I think, you know, you have to look through a place
and you have to get a feel for, uh, how they treat the kids and, uh, uh, what kind of staff members they have and how much turnover they have and things like that before you commit your child to them.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And I think you have, the main thing is that you have to determine that they're perfectly open. That you're welcome anytime without notice, in the middle of the day and so forth
and if they're at all queasy about that then  I'd look elsewhere, yeah.
You have to start wondering if they don't want you.
Yes.
Right
Huh.
You have other friends that have kids, uh, being taken care of in, uh, child care?
Uh, I have one
but I haven't really had a chance to talk to her about that for a while.
Uh-huh.
So. But, I really think the news reports are, uh, tend to sensationalize the problems.
Uh-huh.
I think the problems are more ones of cost and resources and, uh, pay and exhaustion and  you know, things like that, rather than these, uh, uh, really wild abuse cases that you read about because it make good copy.
This is true.
Yeah.
CURRENT AFFAIR can  get several shows child cases.
Uh-huh. Well,
Why don't you go ahead and start.
Okay.
Well I think the court systems could stand some improvement.
Uh, trial by jury is good
but a lot of time a lot of cases, uh, is circumstantial evidence that, that convicts a person, which I don't think is all the time good. Because sometimes it's hard to get all the facts and to prove a person innocent, I mean prove a person guilty if you don't really know or you don't really have an eyewitness.
And how can you convict somebody on circumstantial evidence is beyond me.
I don't know.
So you think if, if trials were held by judges or experts, that they, they would tend not to, uh, admit, not to convict people on circumstantial evidence?
I think so.
You know, I, I attended a trial in, uh, Germany when I was a student
and, uh that's the sort of system they have.
Uh-huh.
The trials are held by a panel of three, uh, three or four judges who are, well,
they're like lawyers I guess.
They're experts in the law
Right.
and, uh, there, there really isn't a jury
and, uh, uh, they do the questioning also.
The judges do the questioning
and, uh they,
Uh-huh.
uh,
I think it's a lot harder to get off on technicalities also because they, uh, uh, the judge is also sort of a jury, uh,
but I'm not sure I like that
I think I prefer the jury system myself.
You think you prefer the jury?
You think your chances are better?
Uh, well, actually I think in most criminal cases it wouldn't make any difference whether it was a couple of judges or jury
What, what I worry about is cases where it's the government against the individual.
That's where you really need a jury of peers. Because, uh, anytime the government, uh, is the government against the individual you need you need the protection of ordinary citizens.
Well, that's true.
I think that's really the only thing. I guess where I would like to see the system change is, uh, uh, there ought to be a, a well
I guess I don't think that, uh, uh, juries need to decide sentencing all the time.
Uh-huh.
I think maybe a judge is a better judge of that
or, uh,
Well, sometimes the sentencing is still, is not fair.
I mean even if, well the jury, I guess they do decide that
but, but, I'm like you,
in a case like that, most of the time its,
I don't know,
maybe I'm too, too, uh, uh, conservative when it comes to that.
the sentencing is really light compared to what I think they should be in a lot of cases you know, uh,
Yeah.
Well if you drag twelve people into a courtroom, I trust them to make the right decision as to whether someone's guilty or innocent.
That's usually a matter of who to believe and what facts to believe.
Right.
But people who don't have day in and day out life long experience with what prison is really like and what the options are, to ask them to decide for one case, on one person, based on what they see, I think that is maybe, uh, a little bit naive.
Yeah.
In Texas here, people tend to get whipped up into a frenzy and slap long sentences on people.
Uh-huh
Uh, it's kind of, uh, uh, a hanging jury atmosphere
Right.
But in a lot of places, I think people bend over the other way,
but I guess, I guess I like the system that they have in some places where the defendant gets to choose whether he's, goes before a jury for sentencing or whether the judge gets to choose it.
Some, some cases in some jurisdictions, they can do that.
Oh really?
I kind of like that system.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's not a bad system.
But I, I do think it needs to be shaken up a little bit.
Yeah.
But, the thing is too, maybe they need more of a, I don't know, more of a expert types to, to be on some of these jury cases because most time you just pick, you know, Joe Blow or whoever and a good citizen or whoever and call them in.
Yeah.
Right.
And lawyers blow sand in their eyes.
exactly.
I would like to see most civil cases tried before a panel of experts instead of ordinary juries.
Right,
exactly.
Insurance cases and things like that.
Yeah.
Where
and, uh, there would be more honest settlements instead of this, uh, tugging of people's heart strings and, uh making them cry and feel like they're doing somebody good by giving them  or giving them two million dollars to make up for the pain and suffering
Uh-huh
Exactly
exactly.
So. In, I think, in criminal trials you need the jury as a defense against the government
but,
Have you had that experience recently?
Recently, I can't really say recently.
But I think about, uh, about a year ago, uh, I bought a product from some company down at, uh, in Atlanta, Georgia.
I believe it was one of these, uh, one of these, uh, mixers. These, like these juice machines
and, uh  the, uh, the blade they sent me at first that went into the machine, it looked, you know, perfectly okay
Oh, yeah.
but I found that, uh, it was made of some material which actually ended up rusting  uh, after,
Oh.
even, despite, you know, diligent washing, it, it got rusty after about, uh, three weeks of use.
And I don't think it was my fault because I, you know, I had made a point of like drying it off and cleaning it
but, uh, it was really, uh, it was,
I had to send it back after like, you know, the third week because I realized it was like, it was not,
something was very, very wrong with the blade.
Uh, what about you?
Well, I don't have so much trouble with products as service.
Uh-huh.
I don't feel like that's as big a problem.
I've had a few answering machines over the last two years just because I've had a lot of trouble with them working correctly.
Uh-huh.
And I'm not convinced that any of them work a hundred percent.
Uh-huh.
Uh, the one I have now is okay, most of the time.
Uh-huh.
But that's it.
But that's, that's probably the worst.
My daughter has a charm bracelet I bought her that's guaranteed. Uh, James Avery.
I don't know if you have that up there
but it, it's a very good company. That  sells sterling silver things
Uh-huh.
and uh, she has a charm bracelet with lots of charms on it, a lot of money into it by now
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and the catch broke
and she was sitting in school on a carpet
and when she stood up, it caught and broke
and we took it back
and they said oh, this was just obviously yanked.
Uh-huh.
This was yanked.
I mean they were so rude about it.
Right.
And so we wanted a different kind of catch
and she said well it's not guaranteed.
And I said, well put it on because apparently nothing's guaranteed
so do it anyway.
Uh-huh.
So we got the kind we wanted
and I was really disappointed with that.
I felt that this was a company that should have been more reliable
Uh-huh.
and I happened to need a birthday present for one of her friends
and I called there to see if they had it
and the lady was very nice.
And I said my goodness,
I said you've been very nice, what's your name.
And she told me
and I said well I really appreciate it.
I said there seems to be a big attitude problem in that, store
and it turned out she was the assistant manager
so,
Right.
So I felt kind of good about that, you know.
I didn't  even know the person's name that had given me the hard time or anything
Uh-huh.
Right.
but I just felt like, well at least I did something.
Maybe they'll fix it.
They might work on that, you know.
Right,
right.
But I find attitudes are more of a problem.
Service is more of a problem.
I find,
up here in the northeast, we have, uh, well we have these mail order companies like L L Bean
and, uh, they are famous for, I guess, having really top-notch service.
They've got, uh
Really.
I mean I've, I've, I, I have friends and family who order from them because you can, you can literally, I've heard stories where you can literally buy something from them one year, wear it for a year and a half,
and even after, like eighteen months of, you know, reasonably satisfactory use, they will accept it in any condition
and they will gladly, no questions asked, take it back if for some bizarre reason you decide you don't want it anymore.
Uh, they'll, they'll actually do things like this.
I mean they're really, they, they bend over backwards service wise for you.
I've, uh I've found also a lot of companies nowadays, have, they have eight hundred numbers you can call.
That's really great.
I guess if, if you call the any eight hundred number, uh, if, you, you can call up any eight hundred number directory assistance, and you can get, uh, the eight hundred number of the customer service support line for a number of companies.
And, um, actually I've tried that with a few companies lately.
And they've, most of them have been pretty good,
but I, I was,
one reason why, I, like I buy a lot of clothing through mail order is that, uh, if you buy through Bean or though,
uh, I guess Bean's, one of Bean's big competitors is Land's End out in, uh, I guess it's Wisconsin somewhere.
They, they are, uh, they're very good about  uh,
Huh.
like the customer is always right
and you know, no matter how crabby you might be over the phone, they are very understanding
and, uh, they usually get, you know, they, they make things are, they make sure things are set properly if you're any way dissatisfied with their merchandise.
That's really good.
It use to be like that.
Uh-huh.
But,
I don't think most places are like that anymore.
Well I think, I guess nowadays with the, uh, with the economy the way it is, I guess,
there was a, there was a story on the news tonight about how, because a lot of companies are, uh, you know,
things are getting rough out there,
there's a lot of, you know,
the morale among employees tends to go down and that, in turn, like, you know,
Well, the question was talking about the juries
and, uh, one of the things I thought about was a lot of the drunk cases that they were having, that, especially for repeat offenders that, uh,
maybe there should be stiffer penalties for those people who come back again and again.
Uh, so that, uh, a judge, I think, would be the most appropriate person to, uh, to be able to sentence somebody since they do it over and over again every day. Right. *slash error should be 'aa'
Right.
I, I kind of agree with that, because I think in some cases, uh, the jury may not even have, the information about other crimes the person has committed.
Uh, I, I think that in some cases that's considered to prejudice the current case
Right
so a judge, you're right, should have the whole dossier of the criminal there
Uh-huh.
and if they're judged guilty would probably be in a better position to give an appropriate, uh, sentencing.
Yeah.
See I agree with you.
Uh, one thing I heard was this, where they have, instead of going to the regular court, they have a, a mock court.
I mean, it's supposed to be all legal and everything.
Uh, you go
and you present your case,
the other side presents their case
and you're done with it.
It's almost like the NIGHT COURT we see on T V.
Uh-huh.
Uh, and, uh, but it's not that we have, uh, such,
it didn't backlog or all of the, uh, the cases that are, uh, all ready pending.
Uh, so I,
that was one thing I thought about that would be really neat if we could do it that way.
In other words, not, not,
there would be some types of crimes for which you're not guaranteed a jury trial?
Yes.
Now,
I, I, I don't,
there's a point on which we don't agree.
Uh-huh.
I would tend, myself, to say that we should continue to guarantee a jury trial for criminal cases anytime a, anytime a, one of the parties wants one.
Uh-huh.
And I, usually it is the defendant, I guess, that wants to have the jury hear the case.
Sure.
So I'm not out for streamlining things to the point where we, uh, take that, you know,
that would require a change in the Bill of Rights, I believe
and so,
and, and I wasn't, I didn't mean that
Oh, oh, okay.
I, I didn't mean that, no.
Because, I mean, gee whiz, if I was, uh, uh, didn't have that right, you know, not to have a jury that, oh
yes, I would feel, uh, you're right, that my civil rights had been violated.
But I meant for some, when both parties agreed that yes, we're going to have a judge here.
We're not going to have a jury, you know,
let's get it over with.
Sort of like car accidents, you know,
Right.
Well I think that's all ready possible.
Yeah.
I think, that you can waive the right to a, jury trial uh,
yeah
right
so. I agree that that should be encouraged.
Uh-huh.
People should know that that's an option just in case they feel they have to have a jury trial.
But I think most lawyers do a pretty good job of making that evident to, to clients unless they feel they can, you know, tweak a jury into  giving a different sentence or possibly, if it's a civil case, giving higher, uh, you know, awards of money or something since usually the lawyers get a percentage of the, the award.
Right.
Giving a different sentence.
Uh-huh.
The take.
Right.
Yeah.
And I suspect it, in cases like,
I guess we were supposed to be doing criminals though, rather than civil.
Is that right?
Well, I, I, we're at liberty to, to talk and, and meander as long as it's all on the same theme.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Well, uh, in the case of, civil, uh, things, I think maybe the, the use of the jury is very, often to the lawyer's advantage
and I think that may be where jury use is overdone,
I mean there are cases where they could be settled,  maybe  out of court a little more efficiently.
Right.
But the lawyers are really, uh,
it's to their advantage to play to as big an audience as possible
so. Uh, I was wondering too, if they were thinking of about the judge making awards in civil cases not just sentencing in, in a criminal cases.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I'm not so sure I'm in favor of that.
But I am in favor of it for criminal cases
so there's a difference of my view there for those two.
Right.
Right.
Yeah,
well you can tell I haven't been in too many juries judges chambers or anything like that
Have you ever had to serve jury duty?
well I was called once when I was nineteen
Uh-huh.
and, uh, but I was doing so many other things that they took pity on me
and, I was doing school and things like
they, they let me out.
Uh-huh.
I've never had to it since
and that was almost twenty years ago
Uh-huh.
It isn't,
sort of amazed me they first caught up with me for the first time, in, uh,
that would have been about, uh, twenty years too
uh, uh, just last year
and, uh, the case I heard was a criminal case
and it seemed it really, trivial.
It involved two bicycles.
We didn't do the sentencing.
The judge did.
Huh.
So
How interesting.
we, we rendered a verdict
and then the judge was the one to do the sentencing.
Uh-huh,
Uh-huh
And that was here in Wisconsin.
So I, I don't know if that varies from state to state or if it,
I'm Nevin from Sunnyvale, California.
Hi,
this is Jim Bliss from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
How you doing?
Pretty good.
Good.
Uh, I guess the topic is trial by jury and how we should change that or how we would change it.
Yep.
Uh, I'm ready whenever you are.
Okay
So, uh, what are your, what are your thoughts on the subject there?
Well I definitely think, like decisions have to be unanimous.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I think that's probably a good thing.
It's probably the safest thing.
Yeah.
I mean, it's to easy to get a quorum
Yep
and simple majority won't do.
No.
And even like, you know, two-thirds majority, I mean, it's
Yeah,
that's,
yeah,
quorums are to easy to get.
Yep.
And there's always that, that chance that one or two people could be playing devil's advocate for a good reason, you know.
So it's, it's
definitely
but, uh, I don't know.
I could, I couldn't believe they suggested that judges should be doing the sentencing.
Yeah.
Like Gives them a little too much power
Yeah
I, I know of a couple of people at least who would be arguing with that. Or arguing against that pretty vehemently.
But, uh,
Plus, you know, you may be, you know, doing, you know, a, a guilty verdict
but it may not be, you know, it may be for technical reasons
Yeah.
About the only good thing I would say about that is it that it would, uh, hurry the process up a bit
Yeah.
but I mean even now we've got, I know we've got plenty of cases out there where people have been wrongly convicted and things like that
and  that's what the trial by jury.
I know .
I mean, jeez if, if the judge was doing it himself, without any checks and balances  whose to say.
Yeah.
It,
there would be much more of that
Yeah
no doubt.
Are you involved in the legal system at all?
No.
But I .  I tend to follow it just to, just to know what's going on.
Okay.
Yeah,
yeah.
I've got some friends that are lawyers
so.
Yeah,
I do too
so.
One of them just got his law degree.
But, uh, to tell you the truth, I'm not real familiar with, uh, the system of jurisprudence the way it is right now.
No.
I really haven't studied it in depth.
Yeah.
I know a little more about civil cases when, than criminal cases. Which is,
Yeah.
it's more in how you present it versus, you know, who's right.
I'm sure of it.
Because a lot of those things, it's all, it's in, it's largely a matter of viewpoint. And who can argue their case better.
Yep.
Uh, it's kind of weird.
I don't know,
you I always think about watching the PEOPLE'S COURT or something. And how weird those cases get.
It's just,
Yeah.
like, you know, you go say okay, we can't bring up this point because then they're going to, you know,
the opposition will say this, this and this and
Uh-huh.
And it's like, boy, the stuff that they can twist around is,
Yep
it's pretty amazing.
And it's like the, the truth isn't really important anymore.
It's,
Yeah,
it's not.
And then you get people who, who bring in cases just because they want to bring them up just because.
Yep.
Like this, this friend of mine's pretty obnoxious
and he really gets into suing people.
And so he'll, he'll sue just about anybody just for the chance to get into court, and argue his case you know, It is. It's, it's wasting people's time and the taxpayers' money and everything else. *aa,sv
but,
But, uh,
Yeah
but it's for the more general,
people don't want to take responsibility.
Yeah.
You know, it's,
And, and most of the time they're looking to place blame. Uh  and stuff.
Yep
See, you're from California,
is that right?
Uh, yeah.
Well originally from Chicago
but,
Oh, okay.
I was just thinking
I wonder, I wonder how, how the civil system or the court system must differ between there and say where I am in Minneapolis.
I really,
From what I understand, it's all pretty the same except when you get to Louisiana.
And Louisiana is completely different cause it was based on the,
what is it,
it's based on common law
and the rest of the country is not or something like that.
Yeah.
Pretty strange.
But, uh, fortunately I never have had to go in even, even for jury duty.
Yeah,
I haven't either other than,
But, uh, that friend of mine's telling me that I might have to go in for, uh, as a witness.
He may subpoena me.
So we'll see what happens.
But, uh,
I'm not really sure how we could change the legal system to make it better. .
Yeah.
It's,
there are too many big problems, you know.
There's, there's such a backlog of court cases right now. You know, to try to get them all in in a good time
I know.
and we already have too many lawyers as it is.
Yeah.
And if it's criminal cases we, you can't put them in jail because there's no room left.
Yeah.
Yeah,
that's true.
And, in fact, they're even letting some go.
Yeah.
I, I, I'm originally from Florida
and it's like it seems like every year they let out more and more just cause they don't have room for them, you know.
Huh.
That's not a, that's not a good solution either.
Not at all.
I'm not real sure what the,
What do you think about capital punishment?
Well, I'm kind of in favor of it for certain crimes.
Yeah.
Which crimes do you feel that?
Well, I think first degree murder, uh, probably warrants it.
Yeah.
Because of,
so many times it's so brutal and just recurrent
Right.
selling, I think should also.
Exactly.
Recurrent crimes like serial rapists or serial murderers or whatever.
Yeah
I come from a state that has, well I originally come from the state that has, uh, the death penalty.
I come from Florida.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, they're pretty liberal on it.
They tend to, like, fry people left and right.  which,
Yeah
that's,
go ahead.
Go ahead.
Texas is too.
Texas, I saw on T V the other night, is the, has had forty-six in like the past several years.
Yeah.
So they're pretty hip on it too, I guess.
They do it by lethal injection, at Huntsville.
Yeah,
okay.
I think Florida still uses electric chair.
Yeah
Uh, I don't, I don't know.
In some ways I don't like it because it's like they're playing God.
Yeah.
And that's not,
I don't think that's right.
But on the other hand, there's a lot of advantages to it.
Yeah.
I think crime rates deterred a little bit by using it
and, of course, you have some savings in terms of taxpayer money keeping people in jail or not. Um,
Yeah.
with Florida that's a big problem because there's so many people in jail that they have to let them out every year.
They,
Yeah.
That's what's happening here.
There is,
like, uh, that's,
in fact, a big gubernatorial issue is the the turnover rates of, uh, uh, repeat offenders being let out and doing it again.
Uh-huh.
Sure.
And it's like, you know, that's a big problem
but there's not a whole lot you can do about it because there's only so many jails you can build
Uh-huh.
and it's really, you know, it's, it gets to be a a big problem.
Yeah.
Uh, go ahead.
I wish if they were going to do it, they would be a little more consistent in dealing with who gets lethal injection and who doesn't.
Right.
Be a little more, you know,
not being able to put it off for fifteen years.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Because a lot of these guys, you know, they get in
and they, they get off for good behavior
and, I don't know,
up in Minnesota where I am now, they don't have the death penalty.
And you can almost sense that people are just laughing at the system, you know. Because they figure well, you know, sure I, I get thirty or forty years for maybe rape or something.
Uh, but then for,
if I, if I elicit good behavior I'm out in maybe five or ten.
Oh, really?
Oh, sure, you know.
Goodness.
I mean just because, like we said before, they don't have enough room in the jails uh, you know, there's a lot of incentive for them to be let out early.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
But if you've got the death penalty hanging over your head, uh,
I don't know,
I think that may solve a lot of that.
Yeah
Maybe not solve it,
but, I don't know,
maybe ,
I, yeah I tend to think the repeal system for the death penalty is a little, little too lenient.
Yeah.
Uh, kind of takes away from the significance of the death penalty.
Uh-huh.
What do you do Georgeanne?
I'm a graduate student at the University of Texas in Dallas.
Oh, okay.
Great.
What program you in?
Uh, audiology.
Okay.
Fantastic. Uh
Yeah.
What do you do?
I'm a doctoral student at the University of Central Florida.
Oh, really.
Yeah,
I'm doing an internship up at Honeywell.
Oh really?
Uh, yeah.
Neat.
But, uh, I don't know.
It's, it's an interesting issue.
There's, like you say, in Texas there's been quite a few
and, and in Florida in the last few years, I think there's been a lot.
I can't, I, you know, I can't give you figures
but, uh,
Yeah.
I just,
this was in conjunction with the guy that was put in the gas chamber in California.
Uh-huh.
So, I think it,
the forty-sixth in the last twenty-five years I think is what
Oh, is that right?
they gave a run down that Texas Texas tends to be a little more robust and disciplined area then .
Okay.
Yeah,
I, I kind of,
yeah, I've heard things about that.
I've heard that they don't mess around very much.
Yeah.
Uh, they, they don't get repealed as easily as they do.
Like the guy in California got you know, twice before he went to the gas chamber
and then they said okay, no,
you don't have to go.
And then they took him back.
I mean, it just seems,  Yeah, it just seemed a little inconsistent.
Jeez,
that's a lot of repeals.
And then you have like two,
you have these people who are serial killers that didn't even get the death sentence back when ever you know.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I, I'm trying to think about other crimes that would warrant it.
Uh, I guess,
what is it, what's the policy now with treason?
Do they, uh, do they axe you for treason or is it a life sentence?
No,
I don't, I don't think, uh, the military doesn't execute anymore
so.
Yeah.
Or death before the firing squad or whatever.
Yeah.
So, I think about the only one is, uh, rape,
Okay,
I'm here.
How do you feel about public schools?
Well, our public schools are, are really poor, I feel.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I'm not sure where Georgia ranks in the nation
but, uh, we're toward the bottom.
Yeah.
And, uh, there's a lot of things that I see that are so obviously wrong. That you would think it would be easy to correct.
Uh-huh.
Right.
But the system doesn't allow for the corrections
Uh-huh.
How about you?
Well, that's interesting.
I have a sister who used to live in Kennesaw, Georgia.
Oh, yes.
And, uh, she has a young boy. Actually has two boys now but only had one when she was there.
And she complained quite a bit about their school system there.
Yes.
And,
And Cobb County is better than the county I'm in.
Right.
She was in Cobb County.
Right.
I'm,
I can't really say much about the schools up here.
I really don't come from here
Uh-huh.
I'm only up here temporarily on an internship
but  uh, I live in Orlando, Florida usually.
Okay.
And the schools down there, from what I know, are not bad.
They're pretty good.
Well, that's great.
But I know that in some, I know in a lot of rural areas they're not that good.
Uh-huh.
For example, I have a brother in North Carolina
and he says the schools there are, are incredibly bad. Uh, just terrible.
Well, I feel that we're way behind.
Uh, I have a son that is in the fourth grade
Huh.
and, uh, they have just now taken up division.
Wow.
Yeah
And
That is slow.
uh,
my husband and I go to the store
and we buy these math books and fractions and multiplication, division things
and I feel like, uh, there are several areas that we're just really, really slow in.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, I don't blame the teachers as much as I blame the system.
It is,
What do you think's wrong to cause that?
Well, well, for one thing there's not enough money in the school system.
And the money they do have, they're not, they do not use it wisely.
Yeah.
Uh, she, my son's teacher has twenty-seven students.
Uh-huh.
And that's certainly is a lot of students for one person to deal  with on an every day basis. Uh
Yeah.
Perhaps.
but more than that, I don't think that they have the authority to command the attention of the children.
Yeah.
And when you have two kids in that class that constantly keeps the class in an uproar and you're not at liberty to do something about it, other than give them on campus isolation or send them to the principal's office. It  it, you know, it can, it can really be bad.
Yeah.
Yeah,
that's, that's one thing I worry about .
Uh, also I think, we have a lot of, uh, Hispanics
There you go,
uh-huh.
and we have a lot of, uh,
the county I am, I'm in, the minorities are mostly Hispanic.
Yeah.
Probably quite a few black people up there
and and,
No
We're from a county, we're from the county they marched in.
We're in Forsyth county
Oh, is that right?
yes,
and we,
and there's very, very few blacks.
Oh, okay.
Uh, so, so that's, uh,
I, I hate to say, uh,
it's not a problem, uh, because I hate to feel like they are a problem, although they are.
Yeah
but, you know, it, it's,
you don't want to seem racist or prejudice or whatever,
but then again.
But it is a problem  Uh, especially in the inner schools, inner city.
Yeah,
there is no denying that, that,
Sure, you know.
Teachers, you have to admit that teachers have to slow things down for people who don't understand, especially if there's not a very well developed special education program at the school.
Well,
and you can't put all the children in special education.
That's right,
you can't do that.
Uh, and if the parents do not care enough to take an interest in whether the homework is done you know.
Right.
See, I grew up in Nebraska
Uh-huh.
and the school that I went to there was fantastic.
It,
I, I really consider myself very, very lucky.
Uh, we had a school that had classes probably about the same size you're talking, twenty-seven, thirty kids to to a class.
Yeah.
But,
But your teacher had control.
Yeah.
We zipped right along, you know.
I, I was, I was doing mathematics, fractions and division and multiplication by the third grade, easily.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
I, I  believe I was too.
Uh,
Uh-huh.
But, you're right, you know.
With all this, don't hurt the kids and don't abuse their rights, you've also taken  something away from the discipline, I think.
Uh-huh
Uh, well, it, it really is a concern of mine because if we could afford it, my son would be in private school.
Yeah.
We just cannot afford it.
Right.
I was going to ask you if there, if that was an option.
Uh, if,
Uh, I'm of the age that could have gone, although I didn't
and, uh, I guess, uh, looking back on it, I tend to think it was pretty, uh, mostly a mistake.
Uh-huh.
On the other hand, uh, the more I learn about the history, the more I see it was incremental, uh, decisions. Any one of which was sort of understandable at the time.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, but on the whole I think it, uh, probably was the wrong thing to do.
How about you?
Well, I'm, uh, I, I was just, uh, in high school I guess when it, when it ended.
Uh-huh.
Ended up being,
I was in the last, last lottery.
Yeah.
And I was glad it was over by then.
Right.
I've never really totally understood what our purpose was over there.
Just because, you know, we didn't really do anything when we went over it seems like.
Yeah.
You know, we, uh,
those people that I know,
I work with several that were over there,
and for some of them it was just kind of, I don't know, not so much a holiday,
I guess that's how they tend to talk about it. But that they just kind of lived out in the woods
and ever now and then, they'd go and shoot their rifles
and then they'd, come back
and you know.
But that they weren't really allowed to do anything.
I, uh,
to me it seems like we only went halfway. If even halfway.
Yeah,
it's funny.
Tonight I was, uh, helping my kid with an essay on, uh, Stalin.
And I was thinking in the course of talking to him about it, how, uh, in World War Two, the personalties of Stalin, Hitler and Churchill more or less defined the war
and actually when you think back on the big events of the war, it was, uh, it was almost a personal struggle among these three, uh,
I guess you'd have to call them great men in some sense.
Uh-huh.
Uh, they're certainly all leaders
and, uh, and, uh, with their nations pretty, pretty solidly behind each one of them.
Yeah.
And I got a feeling that some of that was involved in the, uh, early decisions of the Vietnam war. That the, uh, people saw the cold war as, uh, you had to draw a line and, and defend it.
Otherwise there'd be, they'd get you someplace else.
Uh-huh.
Looking back, it seems like that was only partly true. That, uh, there might have been a better place to draw the line
Uh, I guess you can, I guess you can say that a, a certain amount of resolve and willingness to fight, uh, brought the cold war to an end.
But I don't think you can just fight anywhere just, just in order to, uh, call the bully out and beat him.
And I have a feeling that that's part of what was involved in the Vietnamese war.
They felt like this was a place where we could draw a line, beat them and they wouldn't come forward.
And, uh  we were wrong
But I, uh, you know,
the, like I said, the more I hear about it, the more I can see each decision that was made as being understandable.
But the accumulative effect was to really get into a, a hopeless situation where,
and as you say, uh, going halfway was probably worse than, uh, committing, uh, committing to a completely and, uh, winning it, whatever that would mean.
Yeah.
Well, I, I, I think we did, I think we did learn some lessons that we weren't, uh, we weren't prepared for,
I guess the best word would be the atrocities of war.
Yeah
Uh, I mean the other wars seemed like a valiant war. I mean  they seemed like a valiant thing.
Yeah.
You knew, you knew who was good.
You knew who was bad.
Yeah.
And it was a, it was a traditional the traditional battle of, kind of good versus evil, if you, you know  whichever way it is.
Well you're not,
But in, in the Vietnam war it seems like it was,
a, a, the sides and the lines that were drawn are all confused as to who's good and who's bad
and and, uh, you know, the,
It's ambivalent,
yeah.
even,
it seems like even the people, you know,
had the South Vietnamese, the North Vietnamese and, of course, the Laotians
and the Cambodians weren't even supposed to be involved.
But,
What, what about the domestic effects
like I was thinking that maybe the most important effect it had was to make it, uh, possible and even popular to, uh, criticize the government.
And they,
that pendulum started to swing, uh, maybe even too far. To the point where, uh, uh, supporting a government decision in foreign policy was sort of optional from the Vietnam war on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that tradition is still,
I mean it's dying now,
but it's still alive as opposed to,
this Desert Storm stuff may have, uh  killed it.
Yeah.
But I think that was one of the biggest,
that, you know, the, uh, the domestic unrest,
Are you in the middle of anything?
No.
I'm not in the middle of anything.
I've just,
about the last thing I did
about maybe, oh, close to a year ago now I guess, I, I helped my dad add on another bedroom on to his house.
So, I guess that,
The whole thing?
Yeah.
That, that was fairly large undertaking.
A, a, it's a bedroom and a walk-in closet and a bathroom all on one side of the house.
Did the framing and all?
Oh, we did it all except for the sheetrocking.
Huh.
That was the only thing we didn't, you know, putting the ceiling up and things like that
we don't, we, we weren't sure how to do that
and.
and I did all the sheetrocking and the interior work
Yeah,
that's the exact opposite.
We did all, put the roof up and did all the roofing and the, put all the interior walls up.
We just didn't do any of the sheetrock wall work
and that's it because you have, you know, get those joints to go together
and whatever you have to put in there to get the, to take the gaps out between the sheets and on the ceiling and all that.
Yeah.
I we didn't know a thing about any of that
and so,  It's, it looked very hard to do
My wife wishes I hadn't done that.
so,
we figured well just,
I didn't think we could do it and make it look professional.
So, we left it, left it to somebody who does it for a living.
But,
I think it takes about three or four times before it gets easy. Yeah *should be 'b'
Probably so
and I, we'd never done it
so we just left it alone.
But that's,
I guess, I'm only twenty-one
so I, my, my vast experience of home, home owner's knowledge is not very much.
So it's just what I have to do, more or less, around the house, you know, for my parents
so.
Did you, you framed it in uh, on, on, you framed in new square footage
or was it stuff that was already, uh, enclosed?
It was brand new.
Brand new .
We started with the backyard and turned it into part of the house
so it was,
and you knew how, you knew how to do the framing?
Uh, well my dad knew how to do most of it, you know.
Uh-huh.
He, he'd, we'd gotten a couple of books
and then he just started doing it.
I don't know.
He, well he did all the flooring himself.
He put the whole, the whole floor in
and then I just started with the walls and the roof and started there.
And then we were, put a, like a, not, not necessarily a garage, but just like a, off the side of that
after we had the house part made, we just decided we'd carry the roof out a little bit farther and put a carport more or less.
It's not, you know, it's not enclosed.
It's just somewhere to drive another car to, to park
and it's,
Do, do you build on slabs down there or did you build it up off the ground?
Uh, it's off the ground.
On the piers?
Uh-huh.
It's on about uh, twenty-two inch piers, something like that.
Did,
You had those poured
So.
or you did them yourself?
Uh, no,
those, those are,
we did those ourselves
so.
You just put forms in the ground and fill them with concrete?
Yeah.
Huh.
Exactly,
so. It's,
Well, the last thing I did completely myself was an outside deck which I was pretty proud of
Yeah,
those those are,
we'd, I've done one,
I helped somebody do one of those before.
Those are, those are, you know,
you can buy them in kits
but we didn't do that way.
But it's,
No
I designed it from scratch and did it  did a pretty good job.
Yeah.
Those are nice.
They're pretty forgiving, you know.
You can always tear stuff out and redo it.
It's a,
Yeah,
yeah.
That's not near, like building a house or anything
but,
Yeah,
those are nice.
Especially when you get done, you've got something, you know.
I don't know,
I like them.
You just sit down on on the deck and do whatever. Have  a barbecue
Yeah.
I  I built it two levels and with a big toy box and some benches and, uh, a backrest and all that stuff.
or,
I,
Yeah,
that sounds nice.
All done by yourself, huh?
I had  a friend with a tractor who dug the pier holes
Designed,
so we could pour concrete and support it with a, a nice firm four by four posts.
And, uh and then the rest of it I just did.
Yeah.
A, a contractor friend helped me, uh, with some of the, uh, foundation work
but, uh, it was pretty,
it was about four or five hundred square feet.
The same size as the addition that I just put on
so.
Yeah.
That's pretty, that's a good size deck.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
That's,
It's, uh, not that expensive.
I think it cost me three dollars a square foot and, uh, you know, no less than that.
Yeah.
That's not,
cost me about five hundred dollars, six hundred dollars all together.
Yeah,
that's good.
That's not bad at all.
Didn't  have to,
Yeah.
the wood may
it got surprising as to the fact that how much wood is, you know.
To get, to get good lumber it costs,
I don't know about Dallas, but even in this little town, it's, it's not cheap at all.
I was surprised.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't, uh, cheaper where you are.
It's probably more there.
Well, yeah.
It probably comes from where you are.
Yeah,
yeah,
that it probably does.
Most
I, I'm not sure
but,
When I drive through that area, that's all I see is  pressure treated, pressure treated lumber yards.
Yeah.
It's nothing but woods up here, down here.
Yeah.
I don't, I haven't, I mean, I haven't,
I used to live in Dallas. In Arlington, actually.
And, but that was just when I was a kid
so I don't really know what the cost of living is even like in Dallas anymore.
But it's, I don't know, we're a college town
so that doesn't help us out any.
Right.
East Texas.
We have,
gas is a dollar dollar twelve a gallon,
so that's probably about what you're paying
Huh.
so.
Yeah,
my current project is a walkway which I'm building around the house and out to the backyard to, uh, you know, digging it out and laying sand and putting, uh, pavers on top of that
so.
Yeah.
That's a lot easier.
You've got something going all the time.
Well, what do you think in terms of, uh, benefits?
Well, personally, you know, I think, you know,
of course I'm sure we're familiar with the exact same benefit package
and I think that, uh, we've probably got one of the best around, you know,
besides, they tend to offer adequate vacation, I guess.
And the paid time off is wonderful,
and, uh, one of the things that we were just talking about as a matter of fact this week at work was the CODA Plan that is offered
and I think that is just a, a fabulous one,
so. I don't know if you participate in that or not,
but
Absolutely.
isn't it great?
It's just a, it's just a miracle that how fast that adds up, you know.
Well, I have to agree with that.
You know, I was thinking about, uh, importance of benefits and that kind of thing, other than salary while I was waiting for, uh, the system to find a, a respondent.
Uh-huh
Uh-huh.
And I started thinking that over the years that importance has changed
and I suspect that that's probably true for everyone.
Yeah.
When I was much younger it was, uh, less important to consider retirement and less important to consider medical benefits.
But as I grow older and my family grows, it, the medical benefits are more important
and the retirement is more important.
I had never really thought of it that way
but I guess that's true, I guess that's true.
I'm still young enough that, that, uh, the vacation's real important to me
and the paid time off is real important to me and, and that kind of thing.
But, uh, you know, I was just, as a matter of fact, I just, uh, celebrated my fifth year at T I the end of last month and, uh, kind of started looking through the, the book because of that, you know,
now that I'm a hundred percent vested, you know, you kind of look through the book and see well, what exactly, what does that mean and what is the pension all about
and, you know, when you're, when you're, you know, in your,
I'm only in my late twenties now,
so you tend not to think about retirement.
But, uh, it's,
I guess now is the time to think about it,
so. Does T I have a pretty good retirement package, do you think?
I think they have, uh, one that we need to recognize that we're going to have to supplement ourselves.
Yeah.
And that's certainly one of the reasons that I'm sure that they've begun the, uh, CODA Plan.
Uh-huh.
It's certainly a, a supplemental way, uh,
Uh-huh.
and I suppose if, maybe in, in your instance, if, if you're started with T I in your early to mid-twenties, and happen to stay with them until you're sixty-five, then you'll have a very good retirement plan.
Right.
But I had another career first and then came to T I a little later.
Uh-huh.
So it's not, uh,
all by itself it won't be adequate for, for my situation.
It's not going to build up, quite enough,
yeah.
So, I have to find a way to supplement that.
Yeah.
Well, they just, they seem to make it so easy to save.
You know, one of the things that we're doing which is probably the worst investment in the world,
but I've got money coming out to buy savings bonds, just coming straight out of my check.
And it's probably not a great investment,
but if I wasn't doing that the money wouldn't be being saved anyway, you know.
I kind of have to trade off, you know.
If you never see it you don't spend it,
so And it's,
I understand though,
it,
Yeah.
Uh, believe me, I do that myself.
Do you?
Yeah?
And I disagree with you.
I don't think it's the worst investment, in the world.
Do you really not?
I, I, you know, I, I debate about whether it's really good or not, you know.
Well, it's, in terms of guaranteed return on investment
and maybe you don't start looking for that word guaranteed, until later.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, it's shown a history that, uh, sure beats anything else. Over many, many years.
Yeah,
that's true.
That's very true.
We went, uh, and did a, a thing through I B S which is a, like a financial consultant type thing here in Dallas
and, uh, one of the things that we talked about with the counselor there was, you know,
they work up this whole big, you know, proposal, profile for you, that, all the things that you need to work on and you need to do.
And then one of the things that we talked about with her was, you know, the need to save for our son's education.
We have a two year old, you know,
and, and, you know, we can't start saving for college when he's sixteen, you know,
we have to do that now.
And, and uh, they have a way that they can figure, you know, what, you know,
and he's two now,
in sixteen years when he's ready to go to college, this is how much it'll cost, you know,
and it's just really scary the thought of how much it's going to,
it's, what it costs now is ridiculous,
what it's going to cost sixteen years from now is just really scary.
And they sat down and figured up that we needed to save like between fifteen and seventeen hundred dollars a year at a, oh, you know, six percent interest rate, to be able to have, you know, money for his college.
And that's exactly what we have coming out in saving bonds, is, is, you know, about fifteen hundred dollars a year.
So, I guess it, you know,
in that way, at least we know that that's taken care of, you know.
We, we can worry about other things
so,
I understand, that approach.
Yeah.
That's, what, that's exactly what's happening in my family.
Yeah,
Is it really?
Yeah.
except that mine are a little bit older
and, and I've shown them the numbers and said this is what's going to be available,
all this is going to do is give you a little spending money while you're there.
Uh-huh.
You better make sure that you've got a scholarship.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, that's what she said to us.
She said, now, do you all want him to go to a, a state college or a private college?
And, and our answer was, that, you know, we will have enough money available for him to attend a state college.
And if he wants to go to a private college, he can get a scholarship to attend, you know.
And that was kind of our view on it.
It just costs too much,
you just can't do it, you know.
So, I don't know,
it's, it's,
I don't, uh,
it just amazing,
it amazes me how much the, the costs are going to go up over the next ten or fifteen years.
I just don't know how anybody's going to do it.
And boy, it gets really scary when you start talking to them.
Uh, I have a, an eleven year old daughter now who's saying, gee, Dad, I want to be an allergist,
Oh, goodness.
and I said, that's wonderful.
I applaud that.
Let, me explain to you how you get scholarships to do that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And, then her little brother's only two years behind
Exactly.
and he says, well, I don't know,
I think that I probably want to be a veterinarian.
And I said, that's great.
Let me explain to you how you get scholarships to do that.
That's right,
That's right
Well, you know, T I, you know, T I offers some good stuff
and then I think there's, I mean I think there's some negatives,
but there's going to be some negatives anywhere, you know, no matter where you go.
I have, you know, all,
this is the first really large company I've worked for. I've
always been involved in little small, you know, privately owned owned firms
and so I've never had the, the big benefit package.
So, I really don't know how to compare it to other big companies, you know.
It, when I came on it was great because I had never had anything even close to what, what they offered.
So, I've been real pleased.
Well, that's fantastic,
Yeah.
and on whole I would say that they're equal to, uh, most of our competitors.
Think so?
Uh, I can see some, some potential changes that probably are, are, would not cost very much but might, uh, make things a little easier. Such as offering a, a smorgasbord. Having a larger variety of benefits
Uh-huh.
but, but here's the amount, that, that T I is going to pay for it,
Yeah.
Yeah,
and you can pick what you want
and, yeah.
now it's up to you
it's menu selection, so, to speak.
Right.
That sounds really good.
I read a thing,
I don't even remember if it was in the DALLASITE or the INSITE one, about uh, companies allowing you,
and they said that T I was looking into it, to purchase extra vacation days. Which I thought sounded like a good idea.
You know, if you've been there, you know, under five years and you get two weeks of vacation
but that's really not enough
and you want an extra week, then you can purchase an extra week of vacation by saying, okay, I'm going to want an extra five days this year
and they'll take a set amount out of each paycheck, you know,
and they're deducting it all along,
so you, you can have an extra five days off and be paid for them at the time, you know,
you're really not being paid for them,
the money is actually coming out of your own pocket,
but it's coming out a little bit at a time instead of all at once, you know.
So, that is kind of an idea that, that a lot of people sounded like that they were really interested in
and T I said that they were looking into something like that
so,
Well, I could certainly, personally stand seeing them go to a, a standardized compensatory time for overtime.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And I don't believe any of us would have to purchase any extra vacation days, if they did, that.
Well,
true.
True.
Uh, and, and I would certainly support something like four to one or five to one
or, or, you know, maybe they want to get generous and make it three to one. Uh, as a repayment for, every three to five days that I work overtime there, they should give me one day.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it should be a standard and, and not left up to either the whim or the current overhead rate uh, that's running in each department.
Uh-huh.
Well,
and, yeah,
and, and a lot of that is left up to whoever your supervisor happens to be and what type of relationship you have with that person
and, you know, I see a lot of differences, but, from one group to the next, you know, about who gets it and who doesn't get it, you know.
But that's, and that's that way with a lot of things, you know, there.
It seems like, it depends on what, what group you happen to be in, what, what you're going to get and what you're not going to get
so,
Well, that's for sure.
Which is the same,
but, but then it's probably that way anywhere, you know,
that's,
Oh, I'm sure personalities always come into play.
Uh-huh.
Uh, just in this size of organization,
Our community doesn't really have any organized recycling drive.
Where do you live?
I live in San Antonio.
San Antonio!
Uh-huh.
Well, uh, I live in Garland
and we're just beginning to,
we, we just built a real big recycling center, that recycles everything imaginable
Uh-huh.
but, as far as, uh, trash pick up and stuff that a lot of the communities are doing, they're testing that.
Uh-huh.
So, they're really not full, full force into it,
but they're trying,
so we're attempting it,
but I wish we could do more.
Yeah,
there's, there's been no emphasis on recycling at all in San Antonio.
I used to work for the power company here
and there was discussion for a while about, uh, building a garbage burning, uh, electric generation plant
Uh-huh.
but it just wasn't cost effective, at the time.
Oh.
And there's, there's a little recycling trucks and things throughout the city
but there isn't any, uh, advertising campaign.
There's just not any push to recycle.
Huh.
I recycle my newspapers and, uh, my aluminum stuff.
Right,
that's what I do.
But, uh, they make it as hard as possible,
it's not very convenient to do.
Right,
when they put centers and stuff like that.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
well we have those, uh, which I think is one of the best things is those cash for cans.
I don't know if you all have those things around.
Yes.
And I really like that because that makes it real convenient because they're in almost every shopping center,
and you can just stop by.
Now everything else like the uh, paper and plastic and stuff you still have to go to the centers
but, but for aluminum that's real nice
Uh-huh.
and I started doing that at work.
Um, I put out a, a trash can and, and for people to put their aluminum cans in,
Uh-huh.
and that's really helped a lot,
I mean, everybody's pitched in
and, you know, it doesn't bother them to walk little bit farther put their aluminum in a can rather than just throwing it in their trash can.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I really, I really like that,
but, people are really concerned,
it's just that sometimes it's not the right people, which is really, really sad because, I wish we would do more
Yeah.
At work we started, uh, all the recycling stuff.
They're really trying,
I think what started it at work was that planet earth thing we had last year.
Yes.
And, uh, that really, started a lot of stuff off,
but, you know sometimes it dwindles down.
Yeah,
where I work now we recycle all the computer paper.
That's good.
But that's about the extent of it.
Well that's, uh,
at least your trying something.
Yeah,
yeah,
It's just yeah,
it would be nice if it could be more.
And I'm sure that the, uh, driving factor for recycling the computer paper is that we get paid to do so.
Oh do you really.
We sell the paper back to the, uh, to a paper manufacturing company.
Well that's a neat idea.
Well, it, it defrays the cost of buying the paper, I think.
I,
not by much, but it does defray it some.
Right.
Enough to make it worth our while to have several bins through out the building.
Well that's, that's really good,
I mean at least they're trying.
Yeah.
Yeah
I know a lot of companies that waste so much that,
I'm even trying,
you know that was one thing we noticed last week that we had some new people move into our building And they were just used one time and thrown in the dumpster
Yes.
and I thought, I don't understand this, you know.
Yeah.
We're trying to cut cost and everything like that, and, and recycle and all that stuff
and, and here we are wasting.
And I don't understand, sometimes, the way, the thinking, the logic behind it.
Well the last time, uh, someone moved offices in my building
and, uh, the, uh, properties people came in with all, with the good cardboard boxes.
Not the cheap ones of course. And packed everything up and moved them and left them lying around,
Uh-huh.
I, I took several home because I'm moving pretty soon
and they're good boxes.
That's exactly what I did.
And they were just going to throw them away.
Exactly what I did, exactly.
Yeah.
Because I didn't want to waste that.
Huh-uh.
And it's hard enough to find good packing boxes .
Right
and, and these boxes are,
you can unfold them.
Right.
So, you know, there, they don't take up much storage space.
Exactly right,
well that's very good
Yeah,
yeah
I, I felt a little guilty about taking the boxes for about two seconds until I realized they would be thrown away,
so.
Right,
right,
I thought, well I was doing them a favor by taking them.
I found about five, uh, about nine of them that had not even been folded into boxes, that were in the dumpsters.
Yeah.
Oh gosh,
so many people need, so many people go to the grocery store and stuff and get those boxes, when, you know, these are perfect,
Uh-huh.
so.
Yeah,
the ones at the grocery store, half the time, they've pulled the lid off
so you can't use it anyway.
Right,
and he had a bunch of computer stuff,
and, you know, I bought it all.
It was two hundred bucks for everything he had.
You got a buy.
Well, some of it wasn't worth anything, you know.
Sure.
You know, a lot of the, uh, diskettes were just totally unusable.
Melted, or Just wet
or,
Well, yeah
, or wet
Okay.
But I did get out of there with, uh, Vermont Views, which is a huge,
Okay,
Cindy, you there?
Yeah.
Okay,
what kind of dinner parties have you had?
Well, I've had them, uh, where I've served up to twelve to sixteen people.
Uh-huh.
Uh, and I had help with them.
Uh, and part of them I did were like a buffet
Uh-huh.
and, uh, it,
I had, uh, just different, uh, side dishes and appetizers
and one of them that, that I'd remembered was, uh, some, uh, sausage hors d'oeuvres
and, uh, anyhow, uh, you take, uh, a couple of, uh, cups of Bisquick and, uh, sausage, oh, like a, a Owens mild,
Uh-huh.
you can, I guess you could use the hot if you wanted to.
Whatever you like, huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, you put that in
and then you get some real sharp cheddar cheese and put that in and a little bit of milk and make it all doughy
Uh-huh.
and then, like, I just put them in little balls and bake them for about fifteen minutes
Um.
and they are so good.
Oh, that sounds delicious.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's making me hungry for them right now.
Yeah.
You know, I've made like little Swedish meatballs,
but they're just made out of the beef, you know. And, uh, with spices and things in them. But never anything mixed with Bisquick.
Have you?
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
I, I've used that quite a bit
and it, and it seems to work real well.
Uh-huh.
Uh,
Um.
And, uh, uh, when I've had so many people, uh, to feed, like I try to do a ham and a turkey
and and,
Yeah,
that's my, that's my parties mostly is at Christmas time and Thanksgiving time.
Yeah.
You know, I've, uh, I had an open house party here once when, after we moved in here, uh, which I had things like that,
but I always cooked them ahead of time
and then I just sliced them. You know, and had macaroni salad with, uh, shrimp in it.
Uh-huh.
Have you ever had that?
No.
What,
Put some fresh, little fresh shrimp
and it's, in your macaroni salad that you make.
Uh-huh.
The shrimp just gives it a really good flavor.
Oh, I'll bet.
Yeah,
I don't like the can, but the fresh.
Yeah.
You know.
I'll have to try that.
Yeah,
that was really good.
I like things that are easy and, and, uh, nutritious.
Yeah,
right,
right.
But, uh, at, uh, Christmas time we just have a regular sit down dinner, you know. Which is kind of hard because you got so many people
Uh-huh.
and then by time you pass everything around,
it seems like everything on your plate's cold.
I know.
I know
So,
Well,
But anyhow, I,
Thank God for microwaves, you know.
Yeah,
you can, always take your plate and just heat it up, you know.
Yeah.
But, uh, other than that, I, I don't have too many parties.
Uh, you know, I have, like, maybe just a another couple over for dinner.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, other than, than, than that I don't have, you know a whole bunch of people like except, except at Christmas
Yeah.
and I have my family.
Right,
well I don't anymore.
it's been a few years
and, and, uh, I don't have, you know, over a couple either
and and, uh, I try to, uh, have everything all ready
Uh-huh.
and, and it, it just makes it a lot nicer where a don't spend all my time in the kitchen.
Yeah,
right.
And, uh, Spaghetti
Right.
and,
Yeah,
that's easy.
I always like to have that, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everybody seems to like that, too.
I know,
I don't think I've ever met anyone that didn't.
No,
everybody likes that.
Yeah.
And, then, uh, if you have a nice big roast that you can throw in the oven, then you can put your potatoes and carrots or whatever else all in there, you know. Especially if a pork roast.
Oh, yeah.
That's what I love, with my
I like it, too.
I do, too.
And, uh, other than that, in fact, I'm just thinking of what next weekend when the Super Bowl's on
Uh-huh.
I've asked a couple people to come over
and I just, uh, had been thinking what to have for that
Yeah.
Well, have you had any good ideas yet?
No
not yet
Oh, okay.
No,
and I, you know, I don't want to have to come away from the T V.
I want something that I can just take them and serve them while they're sitting in front of the T V.
Yeah.
You know, so, I'll think of something, just that we can munch on over there, you know.
Yeah.
And they can just fill their plate up at intermission and then go back over there and sit down.
And that's the way to do it, too.
Yeah,
yeah.
I think it's, you know what's I think is so nice is that in this day and time that we can have good food that's good for you
and you don't have to spend hours and hours and hours in the kitchen.
Yeah.
And, And it makes an awful lot of difference, doesn't it?
Preparing it,
right.
Oh, it sure does.
Well,
Well, when I was brought up, you know, we didn't,
Uh, go ahead,
tell me what you think.
Do we get our money's worth?
Hey, listen, if I had my way, I wouldn't pay my taxes.
Not with the, not with some of the things that I hear that our tax money is going for some ludicrous things.
Yeah,
did you see SIXTY MINUTES last night?
No,
I did not.
I,
Well, they did a thing on the thirty-five billion dollars we waste every year just on storing stuff for the military we don't need.
And, uh, it's staggering.
Well, how does this grab you? How did this grab you?
Uh, this,
I, I mean, I'm, I'm a lady,
but this, I heard this on a Christian program
and it was, uh, about the N E A
and, that's the National Endowment for Arts,
and they fund, they funded this thing, this act on a stage and did a study on it between two lesbians and two homosexuals and wrote a report about that with our money.
Well, there are a lot of things that people, I think general,
And then it just frosts me terribly.
Well, I think it's interesting to look at, uh, where the money goes,
and it goes a lot of places where it probably ought not go
and and I don't think generally, I think what's interesting is that we probably represent the majority of people in this country in terms of their feelings about the government
Absolutely.
and how it serves us given the extraordinarily large sum of money the government has to operate with.
I believe that's true,
yes.
And that, what I think is going to be really interesting is what we do about it.
I mean, we are going to have to change the people who represent us.
That's correct.
I mean, and I think it's going to be real interesting to see and, and then force upon them, uh,
Heavy involvement from the public.
Yeah,
right that's I think that's the only thing that's going to change it.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
heavy involvement from the public.
Our anger is going to have to, to give rise to, to more activity on our part.
Yeah.
Uh, I've, I've said for years that there's full employment for the politically active
and in our society, uh, there's very little full employment.
Most people in this country are getting worse off, not better off.
Absolutely.
Eighty percent of the public, according to Bill Moyers', uh,
recent, uh,
piece for, uh,
Public Broadcasting, which, by the way is a very good use of government money. I think P B S is wonderful.
But this special focused on the fact that eighty percent of the people in this country are, are seeing their real incomes,
and thus, standards of living, decline.
And twenty percent are seeing theirs improve.
That's not a formula for a better society.
No,
it is not.
It's lopsided, very much
so.
And the government really plays a role in this.
Uh-huh,
that's right,
they pull the strings.
I mean, well, they are the people whose strings are pulled and by I guess powerful
Right,
the,
yeah
You know, and it's really interesting to see how that affects people because essentially more and more people in this country are not likely to revolt in the way that people used to think of, of the voter revolting.
But people are pretty much getting the picture that some people get taken care of and others don't
and they think it's unfair,
and when they recognize that it's their tax money, they're going to do more about it.
I I'll tell you one quick, uh, one thing very interesting.
C B S, after the State of the Union address is going to open up a telephone line, an eight hundred number
and people can call in and say what they think about what's going on in this country.
Uh-huh.
They expect, opening it for one hour, that they'll get three, hundred thousand telephone calls.
I'm sure they will.
And I've thought for years it would make a lot of sense to create an eight hundred number for voters to call and, and vent their frustration with government. Like one, eight hundred capitol or something like that. You know, just a number you could call from anywhere, anytime.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I think that's coming
and I think once, once people really start to communicate how they feel, things are going to change.
Until then, I think, you know, it's going to be really painful.
So the question is, how soon are we going to start to get our money's worth
and, as you said, it's how soon we get involved,
and I think we need to create mechanisms to allow us to get involved, like allowing us to call a toll free number and say, hey, look, do it this way, not that way, or I like this, or I don't like that, or this is how I feel about your spending my money on art that I don't think is art.
Yes,
I understand that,
but hopefully that the people that are listening to what our comments are take some action on it.
Well, that's the good thing about what is happening because I think more and more the news media, which takes a heck of a beating and, and deserves some of it, is telling us, you know, about the problems.
So the more we communicate, hey, look, we want a change here, because, you know, as it turns out, we've wasted a tremendous amount of money on our defense spending in this country.
Oh, absolutely.
Over a very long period of time.
Right,
absolutely.
Uh, and, uh,
We only see the tip of the iceberg only.
Right.
You know, there's so much of it going on that it would really, you know, uh, set us into a deeper depression if we knew the whole picture.
Yeah.
Well, you may be right.
What I think is really going to be interesting is to see how, uh, we as a society deal with it
and I, and I think it is, what you say, it's, it's a,
Well what do you think about the everyday occurrences that are, that are an invasion of your privacy?
Well, the, uh,
what I really, I don't like is the the constant calls, people selling things people telling me I want things. You know, people trying to solicit for different, you know, organizations.
Oh.
Right.
You know, that's what I really.
Yeah,
I think that's, that's the only thing I wrote down also,
because that's just a, it's terrible today,
I mean, my wife and I, seems like we get home at five thirty and the damn phone starts ringing and rings up until ten, eleven o'clock sometimes.
Never stops ringing,
right.
That's right.
Well, you know, the, the great, uh, thing for that, it's, uh, is, is an answering machine
Yes,
I know,
that's true.
I mean, this is, this is the, one of the best inventions ever, you know,
you just switch that thing on,
and, uh,
Yeah,
that's true.
Yeah.
But, you know, people,
it's like your name must be on a list or something, because I know at my office, I get calls, I mean, I must get at least, I probably average at least a call a day,
and a lot of days I'll get two and three calls, from from people selling insurance you know, to the small business man
Um, even in an office?
Uh-huh.
Right.
and, uh, you know, I think Dunn and Bradstreet puts your, according to what I understand, Dunn and Bradstreet puts your names, your name out to people also,
as far as brokers all, I get calls from brokers in New York,
and, uh California, always trying to sell something, oil, oil investments or stock investments  or whatever.
Uh-huh.
Right,
right.
And now I'm getting the same calls at at the house.
Uh-huh,
I know.
And they get your, and they get your name from Dunn and Bradstreet,
and, uh, credit card companies, they sell your name.
Oh, yeah,
uh, well, you know, these people, they sell your names,
I mean
I know.  Yes.
you know, I,
that's also an invasion of privacy.
I think it the whole thing is, uh,
American Express does that, by the way.
Oh, they do?
Yeah,
I understand they sell it, you know, they sell names because it's quite profitable to them.
Well, sure it is.
And that is an invasion of privacy,
you're right.
That's right.
Well, you know, if you've ever gotten anything, you know, in your life, your, your name is somewhere
I know,
that's true.
I mean, one magazine, and boom, they got your name forever.
Exactly,
magazine companies, uh, uh, from, from subscriptions do the same thing
Uh-huh.
it's the way they make additional money.
That's right.
But, it's, uh, you know, I guess, it, uh,
you have to be a certain income holder to, uh, have an American Express card,
so your name is valuable to, I guess, X amount of solicitors calling.
Yeah,
that's right.
So, I don't know.
What, what do you, where are you from?
Oh, I'm from Texas.
Oh, okay,
well so,
yeah,
we live in the Dallas area, Richardson.
Oh, we're in Plano.
Okay
Well, you know, the only call I really got that, well, was out of state,
I got one from Oklahoma City, and one from California.
Did you?
And that was, uh, California,
I was thrilled to death, because that's, you know, the furthest I'd gotten any call from, you know,
and, um,
Yeah,
I got, I've talked to people in Utah, people in New York
Oh, really.
and a lot of times I'll call eight or nine o'clock in the morning
and I'll get people you know, from out of the, uh, out of the state.
Oh.
Yeah,
see, well that's, uh, the, there was another call on Saturday, Saturday that was also from, uh, that was the one from California.
I don't know why I ask people on the weekends from out of state,
or, uh, I don't know, you know,
but,
I'll be darned.
Where you from?
Not from Texas.
Uh, originally from New Jersey.
New Jersey,
right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My wife's from New Jersey.
Oh, really,
what part?
Yeah,
from, uh, Saddle River.
Oh, that's nice over there.
She,
Yeah,
we're from more, uh, from sort of towards the shore, central  New Jersey, you know,
Okay.
we're like, uh,
Well, that's nice, too.
Yeah,
oh yeah,
it was beautiful,
that's why I, I really miss it.
I, I don't really like it here at all
Really,
yes,
my wife's been away for twenty-five years,
so she's been away for quite a while.
Uh-huh.
Her dad was from Little Rock, Arkansas,
and her mother was from New York,
so they just they over there in New Jersey.
Yeah,
so they,
Yeah
Uh, and anyway, this topic is, is a good topic, as far as invasion of your privacy,
but that's the, the biggest one I can think of is just, just all the solicitors calling.
Well, yeah,
I mean,
yeah,
yeah,
and, then, of course they call, you know,
before I got the answering machine, it was ridiculous
I know.
you know, I said, this is absurd,
I, you know, I, the minute I get home the phone would be ringing.
That's a, that's a good suggestion.
I might start using the answering machine more, because it's so hard to not pick up that phone when it rings.
Oh, it's great,
I mean.
Well, you know, in fact, I've been missing calls from the T I switchboard,
because I, I always have it on you know,
Right.
and I'll get that, that message that says, uh, to, uh, um, you know, uh, end this call, press three
Sure.
and I assumed I, you know, it was from the switchboard.
You know
Yeah,
you're probably right.
Yeah
it is, because one day I listened, you know, and it was you know,
but, um, I, I just got totally disgusted,
and then, you know, people asking for, for money for everything, you know,
I mean.  Exactly,
I understand.
I mean, I,
it's hard to believe there's that many deputy sheriffs associations
and,
and, you know, the policeman's associations.
I know,
they call you one time to send three kids to the carnival or circus
Oh, I used to do that.
and,
Yeah,
I used to do that,
I'd send, or three kids to the movies or something
Right.
There's always a
and I, my, my pat answer now is, well, you just called me the other night,
Okay,
Gene
So, it's nice to talk with you
and, um, food is a very intriguing thing.
Our lives are, are built around foods that we like and, nutritionally good for us.
Yes, sir.
What kind of dining out do you like?
Well, there is two kinds.
One I guess I'd say is with my wife where we enjoy, uh oh, I guess we usually enjoy a good seafood restaurant.
Oh.
Uh, you know, something nice.
Yeah.
And the other is with my whole family whom we, uh, go somewhere that the kids will enjoy
Uh, recently we have been hitting Pancho's up.
It's a local Mexican restaurant.
Uh-huh.
because they have got a good rate on, you know, good prices and everything.
Pancho's, that's,  a new one.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Uh-huh.
it's, it's a chain down uh,
it goes up into Colorado and down here.
I don't know where else it is.
What about you?
We have one called Chi Chi's in in our area.
Oh, yeah.
And, uh, we had a restaurant called La Bamba
but it's just, it closed recently.
But Chi Chi's is a national restaurant, I think.
Isn't it Mexican?
I think,  think it might be.
Do you have it there?
I've I think I've seen it around.
Yes, sir.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Well, I love Mexican food myself.
Oh, do you?
Yeah.
But you go ahead now
Oh, we, we do too.
We, uh, we enjoy Mexican food.
I'm just not impressed with the quality of it.
It's just primarily the price that's, uh, satisfying at this point.
But the kids,  seem to enjoy it.
Is that right?
Uh-huh.
Uh, and, uh, let's see.
We've, uh, just recently discovered a super restaurant down here
but it's, uh, not part of a chain
it's just an individually owned seafood restaurant.
But the first one we've been to that, uh, I don't think there was anything on the menu, that, that any of us had
that was, uh, not just really super.
It's nice to find a place like that.
Oh, boy that is wonderful.
Yeah.
Well, I, I agree with you on that.
And I was really a seafood addict myself.
I, I love crab meat in particular.
Um.
I, uh, I can almost live on, on seafood and almost live on the crab meat if I had to.
Oh, boy.
Have you ever been to, uh, what is it, Original Book Binders in Philadelphia?
I, uh, know the name
but I haven't been there.
Uh, that's an old established, uh, restaurant.
I used to go there when I was in college.
Uh-huh.
Where did you go to college?
Uh, I went to the Naval Academy.
Oh, the U S ,  Naval Academy?
And we used to,  we use to go up there on, uh, for football games sometimes. And have some liberty.
Uh-huh.
And,
yeah,
we would go over there to, uh,
pretty sure it was original, Original Book Binders
I think it was,
yes.
I'll be darn.
I haven't been back there in years.
Well, we're, we're supposed to be talking about dinning out,
but I'll just make one comment that, uh, I just retired from Penn State,
and, uh, all my work has been in research for the Navy
Okay.
What area?
Underwater acoustics.
Is that right?
Did you have any dealings with the, uh, underwater sound reference laboratory in Orlando, Florida?
I have dealt with nearly all of the, all of the research laboratories that the country has.
Yes, sir.
My dad worked there for years, and years.
Uh-huh.
That's that's, uh, that's where I grew up was down in Orlando.
So,
Oh, you grew up in Orlando.
Uh-huh.
That's, uh, that's interesting, Well, I was in submarines. Uh,
Well, that's what I worked on.
Okay,
yeah,
must have had some interesting, uh, assignments for you there.
when did you retire?
The end of last month.
Well, great.
I'm sure you've seen some interesting developments in acoustics.
I certainly have
Yeah.
So, I hate to, uh,
I wish I could talk to you about that, uh,
but, uh, I guess we should continue on, uh,
Okay.
Okay.
Right.
Where's,
How do you like Chinese food?
Oh, we, we do enjoy that.
Yes, sir.
Uh, I don't know if we are particularly adventurous,
we find something we like, uh, like cashew shrimp or something that's got a good, uh, at a particular restaurant
and then we usually stick by it.
But do you,  What about you?
Uh-huh.
Well, I, uh, enjoy the Szechuan type of, uh, Chinese food.
Hot?
Yes.
Uh-huh.
Yep, uh,
it's, uh,
I, I do a lot of Chinese cooking myself.
I have in the past.
I haven't done recently,
but, uh, it's in the sweet and sour porks and things like are just really delicious meals.
Um. Where did you learn how to do Chinese cooking?
Uh, just at home.
Uh-huh.
I, I enjoyed the food
and I bought a lot of, uh, good cookbooks,
and I've been following through on that.
When you find the right cookbook, why it works out.
Uh-huh.
What's a good reference cookbook for Chinese food?
Okay,
well, that one's a good question.
Here it's right under my nose if I can find it
Oh, boy.
I guess one of the things we've, uh, started avoiding is the, uh, run of the mill chop suey and things like that.
Yeah,
right.
But we enjoy trying, uh, different kinds of chicken or, uh, you know, even, uh, shrimp, uh, dishes that are fixed in a Chinese restaurant.
One of this book I have is called CHINESE COOKING MADE EASY.
Uh, it's a paperback
and I think it's by someone named Chang.
Yeah,
Isabelle Chang.
Okay,
thanks for that, uh, reference.
Yeah,
yeah.
I think you will enjoy that.
Okay,
good.
Yeah.
Well, it certainly is nice talking with you Gene.
And, uh, what is your phone at home?
That's it.
Yes.
What do you think are possible changes in the, uh, way trials are conducted these days?
Do you like the way some people in there for instance, really take over and, uh, we have no way, uh, of knowing whether they are legitimately right or wrong and so forth.
Yeah.
What do you think about these things?
Well, as I look at our trial systems,
I think they've gotten to be quite a joke. The way the people can appeal and file for mistrials
and they've taken a lot of the things that were set up to make it be a fair system and used it to their advantage.
I think that a jury should listen to the courts, uh, to, to the hearings and to everything,
but I think they should only weigh fifty percent of the decision.
I think the judge should hold the, or maybe even forty-nine,
and the judge should be able to rule one way or the other.
so you're saying you think the judge should actually have the final say?
I think he should.
And I think that there should be more than one judge.
There should be maybe two, at least that sit in and listen so that there's no way that you could have like a crooked judge.
Huh.
Do you know what I mean?
Yes.
I know what you mean.
Um, and I think that there, it's important to have a jury, but I think the way that they go through so much time to get it a fair one.
That's okay too.
As long as it's not used to delay the trial so much.
They need to have a fair jury
but they only you know, would cover forty-nine percent of the decision or fifty percent
and then the two judges would go ahead and make the final decision.
Well, I hadn't, uh, thought of it from that point of view before.
How do you feel about that?
I have been in a fairly important trial,
and, uh, what bothers me is I was concerned of the ability of some of the people in the jury to adequately understand what was being presented so that they themselves could make a proper and, uh, accurate decision.
Right.
That's the part that bothered me about it.
Um, I really think that the, the, the jury ought to have more say so in the selection or in the determination of whether they are guilty or not.
But I also think that the jury should be, uh, very, very, uh, carefully, more carefully selected to make sure that they are entirely intelligent people and that they understand some of the details that are involved so that they can make accurate decisions.
Right.
I hate to see people brought in who basically have lived out in the country and don't know much about any of this stuff,
and, and they just make a decision based on whether they like the dress she wore that day or whether that guy smiled or growled all the time.
Right.
That's no way to make a decision on some terrible problem.
Right.
Well, what if they used, you know,
I just had a thought come as you were talking.
What if they used law students and had that be credit hours to sit in trials?
That would be certainly nice
let's say
we, we would have fifty percent of them law students,  anyway .   Yeah.
Yeah,
at least.
At least,  on the jury.
Yeah.
And that would give them,  experience in the courtroom,
Uh-huh.
and it could count as some aspect or hours going into their major.
That's a very neat idea,
and they would learn a lot about being lawyers later in life when they see what it is like to be in the jury side of a trial.
Right.
That's right.
That would be a really good thing to do.
That would be a, a really good thing to do.
So it's
I have a girlfriend that just went through a three year trial,
Huh.
and what happened was her husband was, uh, involved in a motorcycle accident where a drunk driver ran the stoplight
and he ran into the motorcycle.
Huh.
But the reason, the actual reason that the motorcycle person, her husband, was killed was because his brakes went out on his motorcycle.
He was just taking it home from the place.
It was brand new,
and his brakes did not work.
For goodness sakes.
And this expensive, big company that owned these motorcycles, um, railroaded this into three years worth of trials for this lady
and she had a son that was just only two years old when it happened
Uh-huh.
and they were following him home in the car. Saw the whole thing happen.
Oh, they saw the husband,  get,
That's right.
They were following him home from the motorcycle shop.
Yeah.
And they railroaded this whole trial into mistrials, um, this and that and the other.
Every time she'd get a verdict that would be in her favor of her,  of a settlement,
Uh-huh.
They would find something wrong with it.
Until finally they won and,  said that it was the drunk driver's fault
Did they really?
Uh-huh.
but I just felt like justice wasn't served because they had the money, the big lawyers, and she didn't,
That is a shame.
You'd think there would be enough, uh, people who saw the accident other than his wife,  to, to also, uh, make statements,
Right.
and they have nothing to gain one way or the other.
So if they say a certain way, then why not believe them.
Right.
And I don't know all the details on that,
but I certainly think that we've come up with a good idea with the, the the students coming into the jury.
Yeah.
And I don't think that it would be such a bad idea even if the judge didn't have the final say.
Uh-huh.
Do you have any?
Yes,
we do have a pet.
We have a, a dog that we got from the, uh,
well, we call it the S P C A.
It's the, uh, from an animal shelter.
Uh-huh.
Uh, he'd come in there as a stray.
All right.
Uh, he's a Pomeranian and Sheltie cross.
Yeah.
Uh, well, he was very well trained when we got him.
Uh, he's,
Oh, that's good.
You don't often find that,
I don't think.
No, uh,
we suspect that he was hurt in an accident, you know, got away from somebody traveling through, and hurt in an accident because a dog that looks as good as he does and is trained as well is someone that has lost him and not have been able to locate him.
Right.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, if they were local people, they would have been able to find him.
Sure.
There's a,
okay, uh,
that's interesting.
Yeah,
the only pet that I've had, uh,
I'm a, I'm a doctoral student right now
Uh-huh.
and in my, in my earlier days as a student I kind of time shared on a dog with a, a good friend of mine
and, uh, it was an amazing dog,
it really was.
They had, he had gotten it from the pound
and, uh, it, it's a Spanish Pointer named Domino. Kind of looks like a a Dalmatian
Oh, yeah.
Uh-huh.
and we trained it from a pup,
and basically it, right now it, it's fully trained
and it can do a lot of things.
It will get beer for you out of the fridge,
and it will get the newspaper and do all kinds of stuff.
So, it's really, it's, it's kind of a show piece
and whenever anybody comes over, we all have to show him Domino you know .
Oh, I think so.
Yeah,
it's, uh,
she's been a real good, a real good dog
and, uh, just, it's kind of a shame that I'm, I'm I'm away from it now.
I, I I actually live in Florida
Uh-huh
but I'm on an internship up here for a year
and then I go back down,
but, uh,
yeah,
Domino's a real good dog.
Yeah.
Uh, what, uh, possessed you to get the dog?
Well, I guess, in one sense we felt that, it, it's nice to have a dog even though there are, you know, complications come with it.
Yeah.
And then with our children, uh,
at the time they were, oh, grade five and, and grade eight,
so it was an age where it was, uh, we thought it was be good for them to have the discipline that goes with, with having a pet.
Uh-huh.
Sure.
Uh,
Sure learn a bit, learn a little bit of discipline and how to care for it and things like that.
Yeah,
right.
That's good.
That kind of builds some character a little bit.
So ,
Well, that's the idea.
I think the reality of it is, that they perhaps,
uh, it depends on the, on everyone's discipline.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, from that aspect, I'm short on the discipline, because I don't, uh, enforce that the kids look after the dog
and, uh, we've had him about four years now.
Uh-huh.
Uh, but I think it does, it, it, you know,
it's necessary that individuals have the discipline to look after the animal properly, uh,
Yeah,
that's something that's important for sure.
Yeah.
I think, uh, do you live in a, in a, in a fairly rural part of the, uh
Uh,
or,
Actually no,
we live in a, in an area that's, oh, probably about two and a half miles from the university.
Oh, I see.
Uh, we live right, might say we live right in, uh, in the middle of a residential area.
Um.
And, uh, so that is not as good, uh, you know,
this dog, being a small dog it's, uh, more you, more acceptable
Yeah
but again,
it's not that big of a problem.
With Domino, she was full grown,
I would estimate seventy pounds.
Yeah.
And, you know, we lived in Oviedo, which is a small town,
it's a suburb of Orlando
Uh-huh.
but there's not, there wasn't a lot of room for her to run around,
and she was a dog that loved to run,
so that was the biggest problem I saw,
and I think that's one of the, uh, the issues people need to think about before they get a dog is, you know, do you have the room for this dog to run around,
or, you know, I guess you can't really say for cats.
Me and cats don't get along too well, uh
but, you know, that whole space issue, I think, is real important.
Yeah,
it's, uh, that's one of the biggest concerns.
It's like, uh,
there's a lot to be gained from a relationship with an animal,
but the same time, one has to recognize the reality of physical requirements of of the animal
Right.
Yeah,
that, that,
and the larger they are, the more room they need to exercise.
Sure,
and that's all part of of keeping your part of the relationship. You know, showing the maturity and responsibility to recognize those, uh, those issues.
Right.
Well ,
You know, and also, the whole, whole thing with noise.
My mother, oh, she freaks out because she's got neighbors that have dogs, that don't train them
Uh-huh.
and, you know, we we had a neighbor in Nebraska when we lived there that had, uh, Brittany Spaniels
and they're very high strung animals to begin with,
but, uh,
Okay.
How do you get your news mostly?
Generally, I get most of my news from, uh, the radio.
And then sometimes, uh, if I've got time, I'll be reading the front page of the newspaper  and just fall off on the articles that I like.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Uh, also, since my wife likes to watch T V, sometimes, uh, having just being there I get, uh, you know, I have to watch the news late at night with T V.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
How about you?
Well, I can hardly wait for my morning paper to come.
Uh-huh
So that's the first thing I want is the headlines.
It's really funny because because, uh, uh, my sister grabs the sports and I grab the headlines
Uh-huh.
But, uh, and then when five o'clock comes around I just want to get in the house and turn the T V on to watch the news.
Um.
It's really weird.
Uh, I don't stay up late to watch late news because my eyes won't stay up that long.
But, uh, I love to watch the five o'clock news
and I, makes me angry when my paper boy's not there on time where I can read my paper
Um.
Uh, I do have my radio going most of the day though,
so about every hour it breaks in and gives me news too, you know.
Okay.
Do you  get like one of the talk stations, the news stations?
But,
No.
Uh-huh. *listen; mistranscribed 'uh-uh'
I just have a channel that has music except for, like every hour, you know, say eight o'clock, nine  o'clock, they come on for just a little bit of the news.
Sure.
Right.
But as far as the actual news, I get that from like a call from the,
can you hold on just for a second?
Sure.
Just a minute.
answers the other Hello sir comes back to speaker
Yes.
Yes,
I'm sorry to keep you waiting
Okay
Uh, I was calling from work
so and that was a call waiting.
Right.
it sounds like you, uh, like the news a lot more than I do.
Me, I figure if it's something really important, somebody will tell me about it.
But, uh, you know, I, the thing is if, if I catch the news all the time, it just makes me depressed because they tend to produce a lot of bad news.
Or that's what  comes on first.
Yeah,
That's true too.
And, uh, you know, also late at night, you know, I don't like watching the news late at night
but my wife is usually up then
and so  I can't go to sleep with the T V on.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
I, uh,
but, you know, I, I wish I had, uh, more news on things like, that I consider long range. Things like science and medicine
Uh-huh.
uh, I'm more, I guess I'm more into science and science fiction
and, uh, there's, you know,
not that the news is science fiction,
but, uh, uh, I'm more interested in that.
Things like, uh, is NASA ready for another space shot. Uh, you know, how hot are they on the trail of a cure for such and such cancer
Uh-huh.
and, uh, uh, you know, a lot of the news isn't that interesting to me.
Yeah.
Well, you're right.
There is a lot of it that's, that's just garbage, as far as I'm concerned, you know.
Uh-huh.
But I just like the, more or less, the, the daily news, you know. Just, uh, especially the weather.
Yeah.
I like that
Me, too.
Although they're usually wrong
Yeah,
Georgia here, they're usually wrong too.
We have weird weather systems.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, like I say, as far as, as actually listening to the news, it's mostly T V, five o'clock to six thirty.
Uh, that seems like a long time for news
but that's how long it is.
Yeah.
And, uh, seems like they have the local news and they have the world news.
Uh-huh.
And then, uh, my morning paper. I can hardly wait for it to come.
Yeah.
I'm  you know, I, I just, uh, I would,
And, uh,
I, I, I'm not a morning person
so I would begrudge the time it takes me in the morning to catch my morning news.
I get up just barely in time to get up, get ready and get off to work
and then at work  I have no time to read the news.
Oh.
Yeah,
right.
Once you get to work, I wouldn't either,
huh-uh.
No
But I've always been a morning person to get up, you know.
Uh-huh.
but I can't stay up late at night to watch the late news
so I guess that's why I watch it at five o'clock
Yeah.
But anyhow. Well, listen, I guess that's about it then.
Okay.
It's been nice talking to you Tony.
Nice talking to you.
I'll probably talk to you again.
I had a friend who was in this
and he said that he got calls from the same caller sometimes.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Oh, well that hasn't happened to me yet.
So, you never know,
it might this time.
That's right.
Okay, Tony.
Take it easy.
Uh-huh.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye
All rightie.
Okay.
Do you have a budget that you go on?
Yeah.
I sure do.
Uh, I have, it's pretty much a ledger sheet
and I just write down all my bills, how much I'm going to have to pay
and I do it per paycheck for me which is every other week.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I mean I include everything from groceries to insurance to car payments to credit card payments, you know, everything.
Uh-huh.
And it tends to work out pretty well that way.
I can anticipate, you know, a little better.
I usually try to guesstimate
and then when the bill actually comes in, I go ahead and fill in the actual amount.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
That way I know how much pocket change I'm going to have left at the end of the month  or at the end of the paycheck anyway.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Uh-huh
So that works okay for me.
Uh-huh.
Well, my bills I usually know approximately how much they're going to be.
Right.
Each month they are more or less just about the same, you know.
Uh-huh,
same here.
Uh, very seldom are they any different.
And then, uh, like for groceries and everything, we try to put, like, two hundred and fifty dollars in a little can in the kitchen
Uh-huh.
and then that's what we use to buy the groceries with.
Oh, okay.
And then we put our receipts in there, you know,
and usually that's enough.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, but I don't have any, you know, small children to have anything extra come up, you know, like, uh, running to the doctor or something like that with them.
Right.
Luckily I don't either.
I mean, you know, maybe my cat would get sick
but, I mean, usually that's not so much that it would throw me off
Yeah,
yeah,
right.
In fact, I did have to take my dog to the vet the other day
But you so you know what I'm saying,
yeah.
Yeah.
that, it's worse than having a kid, huh?
I,
sometimes it can be.
Yeah.
Sometimes it can be.
I guess the worst thing I've ever had come out is like car maintenance kinds of things.
Uh-huh.
But I do try to build in a little extra money each month to, to be able to do that type of thing
so.
Yeah,
uh, I'm not working right now.
I worked for P I E
and then, uh, they went bankrupt
so I just went ahead and took my early pension.
Uh-huh.
Oh, uh-huh.
But I only get that once a month.
Oh, that's tough.
Yeah
My roommate only gets paid once a month
and that last week's pretty lean generally speaking
Yeah.
So,
so.
Yeah.
So, you know, I really have to try to budget, that I don't go over that amount, you know, each month.
Right.
I, for, for years got paid once a month
and, and in ways I liked it because I could go ahead and pay all my bills at once.
Uh-huh.
There's always one or two stragglers that usually they were,
for me it worked out that they were the smaller ones
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
but I would pay all of them at one sitting
and I would know okay, you can go spend this much on groceries now and you get this much a week and that is it.
Yeah,
right.
And, and it worked okay for me.
Uh-huh.
I don't know.
And,
Right now I, I'm in the mode of trying to dig out of debt, I think as everybody is
and so,
Oh, yeah.
Right now it's terrible isn't it?
It's, yeah, it's really bad.
Yeah.
But, uh, it's going pretty well
and I've got a real good plan mapped out here,
so.
Uh-huh.
I also like long-term Christmas club you know.
I used to belong to a Christmas club,
last year I didn't.
Uh-huh.
Then, so then, naturally, Christmas comes along
and that puts you behind too, you know.
So this year, now I have them taking out fifty dollars a month out of my  checking account for my Christmas club.
Oh that's,
Yeah.
So I figure, you know, that's going to help some.
That'll cover your gifts come Christmas time.
That'll,
yeah,
Yeah,
right, you know.
That'll be good,
yeah
most people are spending three or four months you know, at least, digging out after Christmas
so.
Right,
right.
And I'm
Yeah,
I, I was pretty fortunate this Christmas
I didn't get in debt,
so.
Oh, that's good.
I'm taking like, uh, sewing lessons to try to learn how to sew better than what I can
Uh-huh.
so I won't have to go out and buy the ready-made clothes anymore.
Oh, uh-huh.
It's so rare
you hear anybody doing that any longer
I know.
I even bought myself a Surgery , you know,
and I just love it.
I haven't learned everything to do on it yet
but I figure that will help me save you know.
Yeah.
My, uh, roommate does sew some
and, and, uh, she hasn't sewed anything in a long time
but I, I'm sure that she could pick it up again.
My mother always sewed.
She tried to teach me when I was young but not interested
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Well, see, some people are, some aren't
because  I have some sisters, I have three sisters
Yeah.
and none of those are really interested in sewing.
Yeah.
But that's a real good way to save money, though by doing that.
Yeah,
and then I can also, you know, do some crafts and sell those at garage sales.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
So, which I've been doing.
Well, that's a good way to, to make a little extra money.
Uh-huh.
Well, this is another way that I'm making a little extra money
so that was, you know, nice that I tripped over this opportunity
and you're actually my first call.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Oh.
I had not, uh, done
I, I guess today  today's my first day that I could  even do it.
Well, have you called?
Oh.
Oh, it is?
Yeah,
you beat me to the punch, here
Oh, well, that, that's nice you know.
I, I was about to call to get, to see if I could get on with somebody,
so
Uh-huh.
so that was great.
Yeah.
Well I guess that's about all I can talk to about budgets.
When I was working, I, uh, bought a bond a month out of my, you know,
they automatically took it out of my  out of my payroll.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I take, have some money taken it and put in a Four Oh One K,
So, what sort of car are you interested in getting next?
Well, actually, I love the car I have.
I have a Chrysler LeBaron convertible.
And  I love it.
Ah.
And I would get another one in a minute.
Unless I could afford what I really like which would be a red Ferrari or, you know, a little Corvette or something like that.
And that's what would influence my decision to change because I like a really sporty car.
And I'd love an expensive one
but I probably,  can never afford it
so
Uh, well I understand and can sympathize with that because I also enjoy driving performance automobiles.
Uh, I currently have an eighty-seven, five liter Mustang G T that I've done a bunch of modifications to, to make it, uh, handle and perform better,
Uh-huh.
and I suspect if I were to be able to get another car where object was, uh,
the best car I could get regardless of money, uh, I probably would be tempted by something along the lines of a Lotus or possibly a Ferrari.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Well, I'm a nurse here
and we have a doctor at this hospital that has a beautiful new red Ferrari.
A, a three twenty-eight G T S?
And I couldn't tell you
but it's just beautiful.
And I go out and I love to touch it
but I can't even do that because of the alarm.
You just go hunting?
So, I just look at it a lot
Go out and lust after it.
Really
Exactly.
But it sure is a pretty thing
So have you had the opportunity to drive a Ferrari?
No.
I'm working on it
No,
I really haven't,
no,
huh-uh
I did  test drive a Corvette last year. Maybe the year before.
It was brand new, white,
it was like a big marshmallow.
When you sat in the seats, they adjusted to fit around you.
uh.
I mean they came in and up and out
and I mean, they did whatever
and, and we went for a test drive in that
and I was able to open that up pretty good
and that was really fun.
And I wanted it,
but I had a choice of that or my house
and I thought that I'd continue,  to live in my house
so.
Yeah,
there, there's something about having a place to live,
I don't know.
Yeah,
you know, it's just necessary.
And I did, I thought well a tent wouldn't be bad but probably not practical.
Could sleep in the back of the 'vette.
Yeah,
right
So,
I find that, uh, that the Corvettes are, are becoming really, really nice cars.
They are, they're pretty aren't they lately
Yeah.
And  they, they've improved, the performance and the suspension such that they're actually a lot of fun to drive.
They really are.
Really.
It's not like driving a, a Winnebago or something.
Oh, no
No,
no.
See, I'm not into station wagons and vans and things that people are really buying now
and they go isn't that a nice van
and I go, um.
Not really, you know.
How about  a Greyhound bus
Nice.
Yeah.
Nice isn't the word I'd choose.
Maybe practical.
Yeah.
I mean that, you know.
Isn't that a practical van.
There's some that are prettier than others
and
yeah,
the new type is prettier than what their, they used to look like
but I sure don't think it's attractive, you know.
It's not like, like driving a little sports car.
Yeah.
It, it's very hard to find something practical that's also attractive.
Yeah.
I don't think that happens
so, but I, I love mine,
so, and I, I bought it because I drove a friend's in Hawaii
and I just went home
and I walked in
and I picked it out
and he said take it home and bring it back if you want to,
and I never did.
I just went back and signed the papers
and I knew nothing about my car when I got it.
Nothing.
I didn't know how anything worked.
Well, so it was a completely new experience for you.
And I'm sure you enjoyed every minute of it.
Yeah.
And I've had it,
it's almost three years actually.
And I've, I still love it.
I put the top down everywhere I go.
I timed it when I first got it
and it took twenty I mean twenty seconds
and so, I figured there was nowhere I was to late to go that I didn't have twenty more seconds.
Right.
So.
And, and you couldn't get,
how long does it take to go back up? About the same time.
Twenty seconds,
yeah.
That's all it takes.
I mean, it's just a button, that's it.
You  release it right at the top,
Yeah,
so
so you don't have to  get out or anything.
So you won't get,
Yeah
and twenty seconds you probably won't get caught in anything too substantial.
Well I did, actually.
Last week going to the airport,
I just hit a downpour
and I was on a highway going like eighty.
So I really did.
I mean I was soaking wet.
I thought I would drown in the seconds that it took me to pull over
Whoops.
But it all dried out, you know. Didn't  take long when the sun came out
Yeah.
but it was kind of funny.
I'm sure people around me really enjoyed it
but,
Oh. No I was just down in Austin last week
and the weather was pretty nice too.
So,
Oh
and wasn't it pretty last week with the Bluebonnets and everything,
yeah,
yeah.
With the Bluebonnets out,
yeah.
It really was.
Yeah
I decided that Austin is certainly someplace that I could handle living.
is Yeah.
A lot of people say that
and it's pretty far from where I live
I'm ready if you are.
Okay.
Um, where do you stand, uh, on,
Well, I think that people should be allowed to have them.
Especially  if they go hunting,
Oh.
which my son goes hunting.
He goes deer hunting.
He goes duck hunting.
Uh, he's read books about guns since he was like probably eleven or twelve years old.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And I just think that, uh, as far as that's concerned, he should be able to have them to go hunting with, you know.
As far as  just having handguns around to, to have them, I don't believe that you should have handguns around.
Right,
right.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah,
I agree too.
I, uh,
it's, it's, as far as the ban goes and everything, I don't think it's possible, uh, to completely ban guns.
There's just too many.
Well, no.
There's too many sports people out there that, that do do these things.
Right,
and I,
yeah,
right,
I mean,
yeah,
that, that's true.
And I mean the, the technology's not that hard.
I mean, you could make a gun, you know, from simple, you know, you know.
Yeah,
well I suppose you could. Uh,
You know, if, if you really wanted a gun, you, you could make one. Uh,
Uh-huh.
And I think if they want one, they're going to get one.
Oh, you know
You know.
true.
That's true.
The bad guys are, you know,
like I say, if they want a gun they're going to find out somehow to get one.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
yeah,
it's,
yeah,
I mean,
yeah
there's, there's no way to stop, uh, stop anybody from getting a gun.
Uh, I think there should be more control as, like, uh, like maybe waiting periods and things like that, you know, uh,
Well I agree with you on that because I know, uh,
in fact I had bought my son a rifle like for a Christmas present one time.
Uh-huh.
And for a rifle there's no waiting.
There wasn't anyhow.
Now there might be now.
Yeah.
But there wasn't anything for, you know, rifles and things like that.
Uh-huh.
I guess  it was just handguns that there was a, some kind  of a waiting, you know, two weeks while they checked you out or something.
Sure.
Yeah.
Right.
But, uh, most of these people that's got these guns that's going around, you know, robbing people and shooting people,
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Uh, I, I know my friend is, uh, really into guns
and, uh, uh, I went a couple of times with him to gun shows, you know, that  come through town and everything
Uh-huh.
and, I mean, they just have, I mean they have anything you'd want,
I mean
Uh-huh.
you know, you know, anywhere from rifles and semiautomatic weapons and there's, I mean, there's nothing.
You can just go buy one and take it home
and it's easier than getting a, like a video membership card at, you know, a video store.
I, see now, I know they were having a gun show about a month ago
and I was just wondering how that did work, if somebody wanted to buy a gun at a gun show.
Uh, yeah,
yeah.
You just go and, uh, buy the gun
and, uh,
There's no restriction though.
You don't have to wait or nothing then huh?
No.
Well, except for the, the pistols and
I'm not sure how they do that.
I know they,
Yeah,
I was just curious, you know, because, uh
Uh-huh.
I know at, at the regular gun show, you know, gun shop that you, that you do have to wait for pistols, like a couple  of weeks
Uh-huh.
Right.
and then they check you out,
then they call you up
and you go pick it up.
Yeah.
I think that's,
Which I think they have to do on rifles and things now too.
I think there is some, something like that.
Uh-huh
Anyhow, here, out here in California, I think there is now.
Yeah.
Yeah
But,
I'm not sure,
I'm not really sure but, what uh, the gun laws in Pennsylvania are like.
Uh-huh.
Now we don't have guns because we don't go hunting or anything like that.
No.
Uh-huh.
But like I say, my son, he's, he's always had a,
like, I think his first little rifle that we got him was like he twelve or thirteen years old.
Uh-huh.
But he's always, he went to the, to the school to learn how to shoot it.
He goes to the pistol range
and and the rifle range to shoot them.
He likes to go to that, uh, shotgun thing where you shoot at those, uh
Oh, yeah.
The skeets, you mean?
yeah,
right
He likes to do that you know
Uh-huh.
But, uh  I don't know.
Yeah.
I think they should try to control it and everything, you know.
But as far as just banning it completely, there, that's not going to happen.
I don't, yeah, I, I don't think it can happen either.
Uh-huh.
I just don't, I don't see,
and, then, I, I think, uh, hadn't thought about this before
but if you do that, if they would, uh, uh, decide to ban guns, it would just open up a, a market, you know, a black market for them.
Yeah,
right,
right.
And so, you know, they, they would just,
all the profits would go to, you know,
Now I do believe though, like in California, if a little kid gets a hold of a gun that someone has I think they're liable now for,
Yeah.
they  can be, you know, put in jail and everything. The, whoever owned the gun.
Oh,  Oh , yeah,
the owner's responsibility?
You know, now  when they have kids around, you'd think that they would be locking them up
Yeah.
or, you know.
Yeah,
yeah,
you know, that's, that's true.
Uh, you know, I, I had a friend who was a, uh, a policeman in a, in a local borough just a small, uh, one of the little neighborhoods, you know, one of the small towns, uh near Pittsburgh.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, she said that, that, uh, you know, he used to always keep his guns locked up and everything like that
but, I mean, you know, you're, you know,
people make, you know,
they forget or, you know, you know,
kids get in,
the way kids, the way kids are, you know, I mean, they can, you know.
Well they can get into almost anything anymore
Right.
Okay Uh, let me see.
Unfortunately, we are not much into recycling.
Uh-huh.
We don't, we don't do enough.
I know we don't so
Uh, although lately I've been, uh,
a friend of mine that I spend a lot of time with does recycle quite a bit
and it's, it's, it's, uh, interesting to watch some of the things that she does
and then she's almost had an impact on me, uh, where she doesn't say anything to me when she comes to my house but I can kind of tell it bothers her so, just unconsciously I've, I've stopped buying a lot of, uh, uh, paper plates and paper cups
and I don't do that anymore.
I don't know why,
I just don't I just, just from socializing with her
so.
How do you, how, uh, is recycling done in your community?
Is,
It really, it, there's not a whole lot,
there really isn't.
Uh, I know in my mother's neighborhood in San Antonio, each, each house has,
they're, they're given three baskets
Uh-huh.
and they put them out on a certain day of the week
Right.
and each, uh, home does participate
but we really don't have anything, uh, close in this area that, that do anything.
And, and some of the communities that do, the residents are having to pay to participate in it. Which really doesn't make sense.
Oh.
Right.
Over here, they, uh, have several private companies that you can take, uh, recycled, materials to.
But, uh, if you want to take them all to one place, they have, uh, the first Saturday of every month, they have certain places that you can drop them off.
That's what I do.
Uh, and I, I recycle aluminum, glass, uh, newspapers.
Yeah,
that's good.
So it's nice to have, you know, one place that you can take them all to instead of driving the glass to one place
Yeah,
yeah.
That's another thing.
You have to go to different places to do that.
Right.
So it's, so that's nice.
It would be, it would be really nice if they, uh, came to the house to pick it up
and they just were talking about a bill in Tucson about that,
but, uh, uh, it didn't go through.
Uh-huh.
But I heard that most homes that do participate in that are having to pay a monthly fee to do that. Which, uh,
I don't know,
it just doesn't make sense to me.
Right.
I guess what they, what they were talking about here was, uh, was reducing the garbage collection in order to make that up or something, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, so I guess that's one option.
Yeah.
That's good,
that's good.
I guess one thing they're working on now is recycling plastics too.
Like, uh
Uh-huh.
have you noticed that on the bottom of plastic goods, they have this little number now that tells what  kind of plastic it is?
Huh.
No.
Yeah,
I guess the problem with plastic is there's so many different kinds that you can't recycle,
you can't just throw all plastic into one recycler.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah.
So now they're like marking, uh,
they're,
I don't know,
there's six, seven, eight different kind of plastics
and they, they mark on the bottom what kind it is.
Yeah.
So I guess that makes it easy to recycle
and then they're, they're, uh, trying to make plastic goods that don't have a bunch of different plastics in them, you know, that are, that are only made out of one kind of plastic
so that that makes it easier I guess.
Uh-huh.
Well, that's good.
I, I'm, you know,
unfortunately Garland doesn't have, doesn't,
they don't, I don't know, they don't do anything like that
or I, you know, I read those little slips that come in to your, utility bills or your, uh, garbage collection
Right.
and they haven't, you know, talked about doing something like that
Where does your friend go to to recycle?
She lives in Garland
and I'm not sure where, what she does.
But she's, uh, oh she's very heavy in that
and she takes her own bags to the grocery store
Uh-huh.
Uh, she has, I, I really don't think she has any paper products in her house.
Yeah.
Uh, and just a lot of things I've learned off of her that, to start doing.
And she does make a lot of sense.
Yeah.
Just her whole house is like wow.
I guess that's how it gets passed on. You know, when one person, you hear  from another person
Yeah.
and then, uh, and then you, and then you pass it on.
Yeah.
It seems to be catching on, uh, slowly but surely, I guess
Yeah.
And, uh, my little boy has, watches a program that was really neat.
I sat and watched him.
You know the Barney?
You know the little, I don't know if you know the little character Barney.
Uh-huh.
They had one, uh, on that kind of, type of thing
and how children can, can do that
and how to save water when you brush your teeth in water
and it's really caught on
and he's only four
and he's really caught on.
Uh-huh.
Wow,
that's cute.
That's neat,
yeah.
When you,
And keep the refrigerator door closed and that kind of thing.
He's really caught on
so that's really neat
Well, when you start early, I guess,
Hi.
How are you doing?
What,
I couldn't hear you?
I said, how are you doing?
I'm doing fine.
I'm, uh, just editing a spreadsheet right now.
I'm trying to figure out how I can retire without having to work until I'm ninety-five.
Yeah.
We've been doing that too
We're trying to retire in our fifties.
Yeah.
This is a very appropriate topic for our, uh, conversation today because what I'm figuring out is that I'm going to have to put in a lot more money than what I'm making
Good luck on that one, then.
What is that?
I said good luck on that one, then.
Well, we've got a pretty good situation, my wife and I, since our property is already paid for.
You know, the main things that I like about the uh, in the job benefits would be the, uh, the availability of the health insurance and the availability of, uh, you know, being able to transfer around, inside the organization without having, you know, when they cut off a system and they don't just can everybody that is working on it, like some companies I know of.
Huh-uh.
You know, they give you an opportunity to either transfer into an on going, on going project.
So you work for it T I then
You can't say?
Yeah.
Yeah.
What?
Yes,
you do.
Well, I work for D I S D
and I don't know what your talking about when you say health insurance,
but Dallas doesn't pay.
It pays most of mine, you know,
now, after you work I think five years, they begin to pay most of it.
But then, for the, the family, you know, I put my kids on my policy.
It's like two hundred dollars
Huh-uh.
and it's gone up quite a bit
and they predict, you know, of course, it's going to keep going up.
I wish they could go on and pay for all of our coverage, at some point.
And benefits, you know,
I'd like to see child care paid for or on-site child care sometime.
I think that would be a ,
Huh-uh.
and it would make women go to work sometime if they knew their kids were being taken care of.
They could go visit them during the day.
What?
Yeah
that's uh, something I hadn't really thought about because we don't have children.
But, I can see how it would be a a real benefit.
Yes
I do.
Well, we keep a shelter, also monies that we're going to pay in for child care too.
You know, go on and pay a lump sum
and as long as you pay that amount you're okay.
But if you paid in more than you actually used, and the same thing for insurance, what you predict your going to be paying for insurance, as long as you pay, actually pay out that amount of money, you're okay.
But if you pay out less, then you lose that money.
Um.
I don't like that part,
but you don't have to do that option if you don't want to.
Well, that could be, I could see where that would be important.
And then we got that cafeteria plan,
do you have that?
No.
No.
I don't know what it's about .
You can, uh,
well you,
let's see, it, it shelters you're money that you pay for, for insurance.
It takes it out of your salary before taxes.
Oh, okay.
Yeah,
yeah
we got that.
Okay.
Pretax insurance?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But we call it the cafeteria plan,
I wonder why.
Um?
I said, I wonder why.
Oh, it's probably what the first guy who did it, called it.
Cafeteria?
Yeah.
He was probably in the cafeteria when he thought of it
Maybe
so. Let's see what else can we do?
Changes,
I'll tell you what we could do.
What?
We could prohibit people from being hired that are historically going to cost the company money. You know, do a little bit better research on who gets hired
Uh-huh.
Because you know,
You mean, like for health insurance?
Well, not only just health insurance, I mean for the whole benefit of the company.
See, I look at it this way. If the company folds, I got to go find a job.
Yeah.
Okay.
Now, if we got somebody in a position to affect the way the company performs, just about anybody in the company, and they're not doing their job or they're not capable of doing their job, then we should find a place to put them or you know, boot them out.
Well, that's easier done in a company than it is in, uh, school teaching.
Well, frankly, I think school teachers ought to get about ten times what they're getting paid.
Thank you
What?
I said, thank you.
Oh.
We're both school teachers.
Oh, I'm, I'm,
But it's hard to get rid of a teacher if they're not good.
I know.
It's almost impossible.
Well, there's two schools of thought on that.
You know, I, I'm looking at trying to get into a university job position as a a professor
Huh-uh.
I got about eight years of education ahead of me before I can do that
Um.
but, once you get that job with the university, you've got ten years of probation.
Huh-uh.
Then you have tenure.
And they can't fire you.
Huh-uh.
Well, you know, in a situation like that, I don't know if that's good or bad.
I do know that I've had tenured professors that were just sorry.
Right.
And I've also had tenured professors that were the best things on two legs.
Well, they did away with tenure in teaching along time ago, you know, in the public schools.
But in addition.
It makes you more at ease.
You know, you knew you weren't going to lose your job unless you really did something horrendous.
Well, they, they really can't fire you without cause,
you know the governments taken care of that,
but, um, what I'm looking at is, you know, there are a lot of teachers that aren't getting paid what they need to be getting paid,
and there are some teachers out there that aren't worth having around as janitors.
Right.
You know, and I could see a point protecting someone's position,
but, on the other hand, I don't think it, you know, that someone that teaches, uh, say shop, for instance, should have to have degree at all.
Well they don't.
Well.
In some places they don't.
In some places that don't.
Do they?
But, you know, you, you get specialized education now, for instance, take computer science.
We've got kids twenty years old, right now, that could beat any computer professor at micro computer applications.
I know we could.
And these people can't even get jobs doing anything besides digging ditches, because there's no comprehensive test that they can take, that would allow them to, to step into that position without having to go through the rigamarole of college.
Yeah.
You know, I went to college late on in life
and I realize that hey, it's nothing but four years of endurance
and you might be teachable,
you know what I mean?
Yeah.
I mean, my agree is absolutely worthless. *listen; agree is probably degree
It's my experience and, and my knowledge that, that is beneficial,
but then, you know, like I said, I came in backwards.
What did you get your degree at?
Industrial Marketing.
And what's your job now?
Well, actually I'm selling computer software.
But, the two are mutually exclusive. Because, the, the experience that got me the job that I got now, was my experience in the construction field, prior to going to college not my degree, which is I think kind of bizarre.
Huh-uh.
Maybe.
All right,
what else could we change?
Oh, I'd like to see flexible hours. And teaching, shared, job sharing, more of that.
Well uh, We've, we've, we've already got that.
Well, see, we've got a little bit of it, but not much.
It would be nice if you had full insurance coverage if you were doing job sharing.
What else.
I'd like to be able to, to evaluate your boss
and it really carry some weight,
and you get to choose your boss.
Well,
yeah.
Supervisor evaluations have always been a tough one. Especially in my line, because, you know, my supervisor has nothing to with my job, except to make sure I get my check.
Huh-uh.
Well, so you get to evaluate him though?
Well, not really.
You know, I mean, there's, what's to evaluate about him, you know,
I mean, my, my, supervisor level is like practically zero.
I run the whole show.
And when I need something, I tell my boss
and he gets it for me, because he knows, that I know, what I'm doing.
Yeah.
You know, and uh, that, that is something that I think needs to be expanded on, specially in the large market place. You know, the major corporation, because so often, you know, you get a guy who's got eight or nine or ten people working for him in separate areas so to speak.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's hard for me to, you know, especially since I'm in marketing sales, you know,
I make more than my boss. Because he's salary and I'm not.
I make as much as I earn.
You know, if I don't make a sale, I don't make anything
Huh-uh.
Yeah.
Well it's tough,
but, uh, you know, there are requirements, and quotas, what not, for me to make,
but, um, the bottom line on, on that kind of thing is, you know, we have a lot of people, especially in major corporations, who aren't doing a damn thing.
They're just there.
You know, the work they do could be totally eliminated,
and not that they aren't worth or not that they aren't trying or anything. But, it's just that their jobs are useless.
Take, for instance, um, a large construction company I used to work for. Ed Swampers.
Swampers is a guy, who's in the union.
He's a laborer.
And he's assigned to,
Yes,
I saw HOME ALONE with some friends just a couple days ago.
I wanted to see it, uh, because there was, uh, much recommended, for months and months and months
and it was a, a genre that I wasn't in the least bit interested in,
and I usually, when I hear about a movie that's supposed to be very good even if it's in a genre I don't like,
Uh-huh.
I figure, well, I should go see it, because if this is, you know, the best of the genre and I should know about it, or something like that
Yeah,
right, uh-huh.
and I usually come away thinking, no I really don't like this show
Yeah,
I, I, I, I feel that way when movies are like blown up, out of proportion, you know
Yeah.
usually people tell you how good they are,
and you always, you know, end up with expectations too high or whatever,
Yeah,
yeah.
Right.
Well, the, the problem I had with the movie was the problem I've had with a lot of, uh, I guess, Hollywood movies which is they are, it's a formula movie,
Uh-huh.
and they're making the movie according to certain formula that's a good formula
Uh-huh.
but they seem to fall short of, of being really creative with a lot of things,
I mean here's the situation of this kid at home, you know,
Yeah,
uh-huh.
it's a classic slapstick situation with these bungling burglars trying to get in
Right.
and, you know, he did some clever things,
but given the size of the house and how clever the kid was, it seems to me they could have done a lot more, I mean, you know, basically stepping on things and yelling in pain
Yeah
and it seems to me they could have been a lot more creative stuff used.
Yeah.
I was very surprised that did do a slapstick movie, because that's, uh, not really the way comedies are right now
Uh-huh.
you know, all the comedies are more like jokes and, you know, gags and stuff like that
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
there's not as much slapstick anymore.
Well, I guess it was a, uh, a very successful movie financially,
so we may see more slapstick.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
well, that's true,
it's very cheap to make a slapstick movie.
Yeah,
it is, it is,
and I guess you don't have to, but, you know, if you look at oh,
have you ever seen any of the movies?
Excuse me?
The French movies that .
No,
not really,
the last movie I saw I guess, uh, was, uh, uh, the one about the French, the Frenchman that leaves and comes back, and he's someone different.
Um, he's, uh,
well, it's about a man, uh, that, uh, leaves his home and comes back to his wife,
and his wife's all excited
but the guy that comes back is not her original husband,
but, um. O'Gear um, I'm sure you've heard of it,
Um.
it was a very famous, uh, popular movie.
Norman Gray,
Norman Gear.
No,
I'm not with you so far,
Oh, shoot, I'm going to hit myself after I hang up.
I'll remember the name.
But, uh, anyway, that was a French movie
Uh-huh.
it was, um, that was the last one I saw downtown,
but I live in D C well, actually Falls Church, Virginia, outside the city
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and, uh, so a lot of times they have the, the, the, international films downtown
Oh, yeah.
but, uh, so this, uh, French I guess are into the
I guess they would like Jerry Lewis, too.
They have, they have a
Yes they like your Lewis much to the chagrin of sophisticated of sophisticated American everywhere.
Right.
But they have this one guy who does slapstick comedy,
and there's something about it that's so innovative, you know,
he'll have trouble picking up his hat, or catching his umbrella blowing in the wind, or something,
but there's something about it that just, it isn't just slapstick,
there's something about the human character in it
Oh, uh-huh.
and that's what I find lacking in a lot of, you know, like HOME ALONE.
There was a lot of the human character when he was home alone and he was trying
Right.
and there was a lot of human character there,
but when it was, the real slapstick moments, him versus the criminals kind of thing, it just sort of lost the human element and became purely a caricature
Uh-huh.
Right.
does that make since to you?
Yeah,
uh-huh,
yeah,
I see what you're saying,
there's less character development, rather just the, the, the funniness of the gag,  rather than
Yeah,
yeah.
Did you go with kids though?
and how it fits with the character , right.
Did you go with kids?
Excuse me?
Did you take kids along?
No,
we went, uh, without the kids,
it's was a night out, away from the children.
Oh, I would have liked to have a kid with me, I think, preferably someone seven or eight just, just to get a sense for, you know, how, how it affected them. especially to come home
Oh.
and, you know, I would have gotten in trouble the next day,
I'm sure.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
that, that's true.
I, I was thinking about that too,
I saw that, um,
that's why I watched another silly movie, um, um, with my cousin, was uh, uh, the one about the, um, the turtles,
Oh, TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES.
Right
Uh-huh.
yeah,
I saw that with my cousin, just to see what, you know, what the kids are into
And your cousin's a kid,
and that is,
yeah,
he's a little
Uh-huh.
yeah,
he's,
anyway, and that was just excessively violent.
I was worried
Yeah,
isn't it amazing.
it's like golly,
if kids start imitating that they'll knock each others blocks off,
Yeah.
Yeah,
it was all bloodless
Uh-huh.
and the good guys can get hit all day long
Uh-huh.
and they have to shake it off
Yeah.
they don't, they don't, you know, get, uh, epileptics, that sort of thing from getting hit on their head
Right.
you know, it's a little disturbing the violence in these films,
partly it's supposed to be a little bit more okay because it's comic book on the other hand it makes it seem like,
Uh-huh.
I read an article one time talking about even the quote unquote realistic movies, don't have very realistic upsets of the violence.
The violence can seem very realistic,
but the aftermath is usually not there.
Right.
So you see people who are severely injured, very, very badly, lose control of body functions
Uh-huh.
they thrash around,
they scream, you know, uh,
it's just a very, very bad thing,
and they never present that,
even the movies that want to show violence as real, they don't really show you what happens with that real violence
Uh-huh.
and I'm not really sure how I feel about that.
Uh-huh.
Uh, on the one hand I'd like it to be a warning,
on the other hand I wouldn't want people who currently get sort of enjoy their violence fixes from these movies to start thinking gee, now we want to see the aftermath all the time either.
You're right,
uh-huh,
yeah,
it's true.
But
yeah,
TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES was sort of the same way,
they, I guess they figured, I mean, they know what they're doing,
and they make the movies good enough, I guess I'm a bit of a snob, they make the movies good enough to be successful
Uh-huh.
and then they don't, and they, but they could make them better, you know
Uh-huh.
they could try to make,
I mean, as far as I was concerned, TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES could have been a classic of world theater
Really.
, it could have been, you know,
it was, it was innovative, uh, a completely new approach to making a movie in a lot of ways,
and yet it ended up not being anything particularly memorable, because the, the story was stupid, and, and then things like that,
and they built up,
I remember feeling annoyed, again, I didn't have a kid with me, and I remember feeling annoyed that they had this whole thing about the Master and the passing of wisdom, the, from older to younger generation,
it was, it was a classic Greek, you know, you know, a sort of, European mess going back three thousand years that they're playing with
Uh-huh.
um, and he had to ,
and he told them, remember , remember, you were united, you can succeed, individually you will fail
Yeah,
right,
right.
and then there was a big climactic fight scene,
and they didn't remember that,
they didn't fight together,
they fought individually,
and they failed individually,
and then that was it,
then they had to have the Master beat him
Right.
and the Master should, according to the classic myth, the sort of Joseph Campbell type myth, he, the Master should have died at the end because the, the lesson was passed to the young generation
Right.
and the older generation is not needed
and is reborn to the younger generation,
and on and on and on, and all this wonderful mess
Uh-huh.
and it still would have been every bit as accessible a movie for the kids if they had included all this stuff that, I, anyway as an intellectual adult would appreciate,
it wouldn't have hurt the movie to do that,
and it would have make it, uh, broadened the audience that it could have been targeted for, I thought
Uh-huh.
but, I, uh, I'm truly enough, you know, I'm truly an intellectual snob, to be going to these kinds of movies,
I realize that. I mean, to go to these movies and expect them to be, you know, other than just, just good entertainment kind of thing.
Right.
That's true.
Yeah,
there's not too many that are, uh, that are good just on their, you know, that, that you wouldn't want to change something,
and there's always something that, uh,
Yeah,
yeah.
Uh-huh.
I, I, I, I'm very, I'm very critical,
I, I, I'm actually originally from Hollywood,
and then, then, then
and my father works in films
and such,
and I tend to, tend to be hypercritical of these things,
and then, perhaps, perhaps it's unfair, because I, I, I must admit I enjoy these movies
Yeah,
right.
and that's what they're for,
but I don't, don't remember them,
and I think it's, I think, I can think of movies I have less fun during
and then after the movie's over, I remember it so terribly well because it, it had some, some meaning to me or something.
Uh-huh.
Right,
exactly,
yeah,
there, there, there are several movies that hit home like that.
Of course the ones I always remember are the, the older ones
Uh-huh.
I always like the musicals, and uh,  those ones, that just stick in your head.
Yeah,
yeah,
they leave,
yeah,
they leave, they leave some songs with you,
I don't know what it is
Uh-huh.
but it just,
I mean, I don't know if this is old fart talking here or something, because I'm not that old
No,
it could be.
you know, those old movies seemed to have had something that, uh, that was memorable somehow,
Uh-huh.
I don't know what it was.
Um. Okay,
well, I guess I got to get going,
Okay,
well, um, thanks for hearing me rap, I guess
Got to go take care of the children,
All right,
nice talking with you.
Yeah,
nice talking with you.
Are you calling from Texas, by the way?
No,
I'm in California .
Oh, okay,
the first person I've talked to outside of Texas.
Yeah,
there must be Texas people, as near as I can tell.
Well.
Yeah,
okay,
well, thank you very much.
Okay,
well, I'm from the .
Bye-bye.
All right,
bye-bye.
Okay,
we're rolling.
I, uh,
what, what would you, what would, has your experience lead you to advise, uh, if my child were thinking of going to the Air Force Academy,
what would you say?
Well, I'd encourage it.
Uh-huh.
It's a good general education for a, a bachelor's degree.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
And obviously, and obviously it's where they don't have a, any post graduate program there,
but you get a, an excellent, wide, uh, basis of topics.
You know, you get a good broad education out of it.
Uh-huh.
You don't, they don't graduate the best engineers or the best English majors, but maybe a graduate pretty good overall students out of there.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Uh,
How do you feel about,
it must be a somewhat different environment from a regular college.
How does that, uh,
how do you feel that is for someone at, at that phase in their life?
Well, the for some people, it's good because they maybe they need a little discipline, need a little reining in at that, that stage in their life.
Uh, other people,
it, uh, it's, uh, suffocating,
Uh-huh.
you know, you kind of choke on it
Uh-huh,
uh-huh,
uh-huh.
uh, it, it depends on the person, on the individual,
Uh-huh.
but, uh, the one factor I think more than anything else in this day and age that's got to be a big factor in your decision's just the, the cost of, how much you're going to pay no matter where you go to school.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And if you've been in for twelve years, I'm sure you've, you've got a, your share of student loans that, uh, you're probably going to be paying off or have been
or,
Well, I sort of,
one of the reasons it's taken so long is I've been working all, you know, sort of half student, half working and source of income and stuff,
Uh-huh.
so I'm actually managing to do this with zero debt.
Oh, that's good.
Uh, I couldn't, you couldn't do it otherwise.
Oh, I mean I know people that graduated, or that I went to high school with that went to civilian colleges
and they, they've got twenty, thirty thousand dollar debts,
I mean you could have, uh,
Yeah,
I think if there's any major piece of advice I'd give, is to find a way of getting an education that doesn't incur that kind of debt.
Yeah.
It's not,
I mean, I remember seeing an article one time about, you know, if the average person who spent that much money going to college just took the same amount of money and put it in a, a, in an investment fund, they'd be considerably wealthier than they would be from the job they'd get after college.
Exactly.
So, it's, it's really kind of crazy.
It's, it's staggering when you think that, just here in central New York, is, uh,
Hamilton College is just a few miles south of, you know, maybe about twenty miles to the south from where I am
Uh-huh.
and, uh, they're looking for twenty-two thousand dollars for tuition and room and board now.
Really?
A year.
Huh.
At just a small,
I mean they, they, they are it is a select, college.
Yes,
yes,
I know.
I was actually, I I was thinking of trying to get a job there
I heard of it.
Oh, yeah.
But, you're talking incredible tuitions now.
Uh-uh.
I don't know how many people actually pay the whole shot.
Very few I would imagine.
Yeah.
But, uh, I get,
I just couldn't
I mean it's more money that I make in a year,
so
You know, it, you know,
me being one person with a above the median income, for New York state, you know,
Yeah.
I'm a I'm a second lieutenant in the Air Force now,
and, uh, I,
Uh-huh.
even as a somebody making twice what I was making, how could you put half of that into, to your child's education
Uh-huh.
and then just when they make, made, make it to the college years it's,
Yeah,
yeah.
My God, I can't imagine.
Well, my, my real feeling about, about the purpose of undergraduate education is it's really the time,
yes,
you do get an education, you do learn some things,
but you eventually forget most of it.
Yes.
But what you don't forget is the growing up.
It's really the period when people become adults.
I mean people who don't go to college become adults in other ways.
But, really,
it's the entry into adulthood, I think.
And I think that the best way to choose a college is to decide what kind of environment you want to be fostered in as you become, you know, as you gain new social skills, as you become, you know, more of a functioning member of society.
And maybe the Air Force Academy is a perfect,
as you said for someone who, you know, a more, you know, who needs to learn self-discipline and so forth would be appropriate for them.
Or, it's also a good environment,
it may be good for someone who already has self discipline, who has a certain amount of leadership quality in their own, that,
Yeah,
and want to develop that.
And, that,
yeah,
the
it's the same.
Uh-huh.
It can benefit different people different ways.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
But, uh, you know, I, I agree with that, because I see people that I know again, from high school, that I still keep in touch with, that didn't go to college Same patterns of behavior, same, uh, same socializing, same exact crowd that they hang with
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
The same patterns of behavior, you mean?
Yeah,
yeah.
and it's like, it's like frozen time, you know.
Exactly,
it's I find it kind of sad,
I really do.
It is.
It really is that they haven't found anything, anything better that, uh,
or their, their experiences haven't been broadened at all, to, to you know, you know,
Uh-huh.
it's, it's a, it's a tremendous thing when you sit in a, in a college environment and discuss some issues and really sit there with people with disagreeing opinions
and you hear all these different sides of the story that you never thought of
Yeah.
Right.
and, uh, that's another big thing I think people get out of college is the appreciation for different point, differing points of view, you know, or different opinions.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Yeah,
in high school everyone sort of tries to have the same opinion it seems.
Yeah,
exactly,
yeah.
Yeah,
the, the one thing I think that's no good for anyone is these monster institutions.
These institutions of thirty thousand students and such.
Oh I,
And I see some freshmen wandering around in there
and they're they're just like, you know, someone from the country lost in the big city,
I mean, they, they,
Yeah.
I don't see them getting,
I mean when I was undergraduate, I went to a, relatively small school for my first two years
and then I transferred to a very large school.
Uh-huh.
And that worked out pretty well.
I went from a, you know, a second rate institution to a higher rate institution.
Uh-huh.
But the first couple of years it doesn't matter to me what the quality of the education was.
I needed to make friends.
I needed to sort of learn the ropes.
You know, there were things like that, that mattered a lot more
and I needed basic, really simple education that you can get, pretty much anywhere for the first couple of years.
Well, your education's a lot what you make of it, too,
so,
Yeah,
yeah,
exactly.
And if you're alienated,
I mean I see people at supposedly really good universities who are just having psychological problems, that, you think this isn't sinking in.
Yeah.
Well, I, I've seen more graduates from M I T
and that,
Uh-huh.
being,
I work in a, in a an Air Force laboratory
and so we've got a lot of, uh, M I T graduates that are in there
and they are the biggest collection of screwed up people that I think I've ever run into.
Yeah,
yeah.
Even, even more so, uh, like, military academy grads are a strange lot, too,
I, I mean I have to confess to that.
Yeah,
it's sort of a, a rare select environment.
Yeah,
and they have their own quirks and tolerances and, you know, certain things that don't bother us at all, that would drive other people nuts
Yeah.
and then certain things that
ways, things we do,
the way we do it that drive other people nuts that,
Right,
right,
sure.
But, these M I T grads are off in their absolute own world.
It, it's a,
I, I have more I have a lot of respect for M I T master's and doctorate, uh, degrees,
Yeah.
It's a top rated institution
and now I,
but they're undergrads are like,
I, I'm amazed, at, at that's a lot of them even graduated.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
But, uh, I don't know.
Well, I, I had known a lot of undergraduates who pick schools because they want the best reputation for a school. Not realizing that the reputation for M I T is because of the, of the doctorate research, and the professors who go there,
Right.
Right.
and you're not going to see the professors
Nope.
you know, you're going to see some T A, you know.
Uh, so they they, they want, you know, they want the best
and they don't think, they think what the best is, is, reputation for, for research
Yeah.
and that's a one standard,
but it's not relevant, to what they need.
No.
It's interesting that you mention,
and I didn't think about that before when you were talking,
but the service academies have all, all the faculty, uh, for the most part is, is military with a few exchange, professors from other, schools.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
But, uh, having the military faculty is really beneficial because they see it as doing their job and spending time with the cadets there, uh, is investing in the Air Force,
and it,
Right.
or the, the military itself, it's the future officer corps
and so, I hear horror stories from friends of mine that they could never see their instructors,
they could never get extra help.
Uh-huh.
For me any time I needed extra help any time of the day I had all my instructors home phone numbers
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and could call them,
you go to their office anytime.
I had some instructors that, uh, would invite me over to their house for extended study things on weekends, when I was having trouble with something
Huh.
and,
Yeah,
you won't get that at M I T or virtually or anything like that.
No,
no,
and that,
And you you know, and you can't blame the professors either, because you look at their job description,
No.
you'd you know,
teaching is third down on the list of importance things
and,
Right,
right.
Publish first,
and the
yeah,
and, and that's appropriate if the university is trying to do serious research, because it's hard to be a researcher and a teacher at the same time.
Right.
So I'd say go to a, go to a college that has teachers.
People who really are committed to the students and can afford to be because that's their job.
Yeah.
But, oh, well
Yeah,
it's, there's a lot of factors that people don't ever, ever consider in, in their selection of a college
Uh-huh.
and, uh, I don't know,
maybe, I wonder if, if they enter these conversations that people have been having, uh ...
what kind of fishing do you enjoy?
Well, uh, normally I like to, to go out fishing in a boat, and, uh, rather than like bank fishing, and just like to try and catch anything that's swimming, because I've had such problems with trying to catch any type of fish, that, uh, I just really enjoy doing the boat type fishing.
So, you like fresh water.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I've never tried like with, deep, uh, sea water fishing because you get, I get sea sick
Uh-huh.
Oh I see
Well, one of these days, I'm hoping they'll have some kind of medicine,
so I can go out and go, uh, deep sea fishing.
Now, that would be nice.
Well, I was raised on the Texas gulf coast, in the summers,
Uh-huh.
and during the Christmas holidays we'd go down to our house on the coast
Uh-huh.
and so, I thought fish came out of the ocean
Oh, my goodness.
and anything that was fresh water was muddy
Uh-huh.
so I didn't learn to fish in a lake until I was well into my twenties
so I had, I had always been a, a sea fisher type which is a lot of fun.
Uh-huh.
Oh I bet it is.
There's so many different ways to catch fish.
Uh-huh.
You know, at night you can go walking in the shallows, and gig flounder and things like that.
Which isn't technically fishing,
but it's a lot of fun.
Uh-huh.
So, I, I grew up fishing.
Uh-huh.
What area of lakes do you like?
Well, uh, now, I haven't done much fishing here in Texas, uh, because I moved from Ohio,
Oh, I see.
uh, but, uh, we did a lot of fishing when we were up there.
But down here, I have a brother that likes to go over on the east, in East Texas, and do fishing.
I can't remember what the name of the lake is,
and he was just here this past weekend.
I could have,
I, I think he mentioned it again,
but I couldn't remember what it was.
Uh, I want to call it Salt Fork, or Lake Fork.
I, I can't remember,
but he said it's one of the best bass fishing places.
Oh, oh, oh, uh, I think I know where, uh, Lake Caddo, or something like that.
I, you know,
that may be it.
That may be it.
If it's supposed to be one of the best bass fishing places. They hold tournaments there, and everything.
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah,
and he said that he has never gone anywhere before,
and he's fished all over the United States, in which they can catch the biggest bass that you've ever seen.
So I would love to go over there.
They were talking about going over there, and, and some time in the spring,
and I was thinking it would be great to go over there to go fishing, and, uh, and catch some bass.
I would love to do that,
but they have snakes over there,
and I'm not too welcome around,
I don't, I really don't want to share a boat with a snake.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I just, I, I, I don't see it.
Yeah.
I just, I don't I think that I perhaps would let them have the boat or something,
I'd make some quick arrangements
That's true.
and I've told so many stories about the snakes
Uh-huh.
you know, when they pull in, there's a snake instead of a fish, and things like that
Yeah.
I'm just,
Oh.
I don't know,
Yeah.
What's the largest fish you ever caught?
Uh, gosh,
I think it was only like three and a half pounds,
and for me that's big.
That's why I'm saying I love to go fishing because I've never caught anything really, really big.
Uh, so, because it's always been, you know, in the, on a lake, and, uh,
I know they have bigger fish than that
but, you know, three and a half pounds, and that was, huge for me,
Oh, on a lake,
yeah.
On a like that's not a bad size fish. *listen; transcript should probably read "lake" not "like"
yeah,
that's a good size fish
I would be impressed
Yeah,
yeah.
So, uh, but
yeah,
I'd love to go catch like the Marlins or whatever in the deep sea fishing.
I've never done that.
Uh-huh.
I've, I've seen it, uh,
and, and I have no problem going out in a boat, uh,
it's just so dreadfully expensive,
and there's just so many other ways live down there.
Yeah.
It's not a treat
Uh-huh.
it's what you do every day.
That's right.
You know.
That's right.
Uh, one of my favorite things was, we were forever catching crab and steaming them you know, out on the, on the beach and you know, just, uh, pitching them out, on, uh, on, uh, what am I trying to say, newspaper and, and, breaking them up and sitting out there and eating them, and then digging a hole and pitching the whole thing in it you know
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Wow.
Uh-huh.
and, and that's it.
Yeah.
And, uh, but, the other little creatures would take care of what was left.
That's right,
So, going out on a boat, never did appeal to me simply because it, you know, there was so much else to do.
that's right.
Right.
Right.
Well, do you live like along, uh, Houston, down there?
No,
no.
I live in Dallas.
I lived in Dallas.
oh, okay.
But you, uh,
We had a house in Port Aransas.
Oh okay.
It's a little fishing village that is, Corpus.
That's close to, uh, South Padre.
Well, uh, South Padre is on down the bend
Oh Corpus.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
it's like if you drew a line from Austin straight down, it would be in that region.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Small island.
Yeah.
Uh,
Yeah.
I, I've been to Port Aransas
but, it was when I was a child.
Oh, okay.
Yes,
because I have relatives who live in Houston,
so when would go, and we would go to Port Aransas or then, on down to Corpus or further,
yeah,
like what your talking about.
Because I was just wondering, we went to Galveston this, this summer, even with all the oil spills and everything,
I mean, I was, oh, it was horrible.
Was it bad?
I well never, ever go back.
I don't think. Uh,
Oh, I hate to hear that.
and,
yeah,
and that, that's true, uh, uh, you know,
the, the water was murky,
and I would hate to think about catching fish or anything there
Huh-uh.
huh-uh,
no
I wouldn't want to eat them.
No,
So,
no,
no.
Yeah.
You went to Galveston.
Uh, I have a favorite hotel that extends out over the water
Uh-huh.
the, uh, what is it, the Flagship?
Yes.
Uh-huh.
Is it still there?
It sure is.
I like that place.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It most certainly is, so, uh, so that, it, it was, it was certain things that were enjoyable about it,
but, uh, I don't, I think it's lost a lot of it's appeal since then, because of all the oil spills that they have had,
and, uh, it always smelled the entire time we were there.
It was,
I didn't realize that had happened, for some reason.
Yeah.
We went swimming one time, in the whole week that, we were there,
and the rest of the time we stayed in the pool, because the water was so awful,
and,
Well, of course, being raised on the water I'd never swim in it.
yeah.
Huh-uh.
Yeah.
Swimming is for swimming, pool.
Yeah.
That's why they call them swimming pools
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
That's where you swim.
You do not swim in the ocean.
No.
No.
No.
Not anymore.
I've seen what comes out of the ocean,
and I have no desire to share, any space with anything like that.
But, really, but huge sharks are down there.
Uh-huh.
I mean incredibly large sharks.
Uh-huh.
Uh, some of the young dread naughty boys in my family would fish for them all night
Uh-huh.
it was incredible the size of them,
Wow.
the next morning they would have them strung up across the getties
Uh-huh.
and it, you know,
so, just strung up,
their tails would still hang on the bottom of the getties
yeah,
just,
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
Now I never knew they were that, that big, huh,
I won't have anything to do with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, it was nice talking to you.
Well, it certainly was, uh,
Maybe you can get,
how many,
have you had very many of these calls?
Uh, yeah,
almost ever day.
How wonderful.
Yeah.
Almost, almost ever single day from when they started it.
Yeah.
Maybe I'll just be so lucky.
Okay,
I enjoyed talking to you.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye
Phil, I guess a good question to ask is do you do your own work, or do you like to do it?
Yeah,
well, I, um,
about, or just over a year ago I bought my own house,
so this has been the first opportunity I've had to, uh, be working on my own lawn and garden,
and, uh, you know, when, back when I was a kid, you know, mom would send me out to weed the garden.
I, I'd hate it, you know.
Yeah.
Now, I sort of take pride in, uh, in the yard, and, you know, how the place looks,
and, uh, so I don't mind doing it so much anymore.
Yeah,
so do you have a, do you have a garden,
or do you just do your landscaping now and your lawn?
Well, it's, yeah, it's, it's primarily just, uh, like landscaping a little bit.
You know, I've got some, uh, bushes around the you know, foundation planning, things like that,
and then there's some, just some little flower beds,
and my mom grows,
she's an avid gardener,
and she starts her own stuff from seed now,
and she gets a little over zealous when she is planting these seeds in the wintertime and starting them.
Uh, she ends up with so many plants that she can't fit them all in her garden.
They have a huge yard and a huge house,
and so she brings them up here from Philadelphia and gives me all her extras.
Well, that's pretty good.
Yeah.
My, my sister is very over zealous, too.
She's got some really nice flower beds.
She puts a lot of time into them.
This is my first year in a, in a house where I'm thinking about doing some flower beds and stuff.
Oh, we, I've always had crude ones at my father's,
but this is the first time that I really have to landscape a house.
Yeah.
His house is more like a farm house.
It's not on a main road.
Uh-huh.
My house is on a main road,
and it has nothing
Yeah.
I mean, nothing.
But, um, what I do do, and I've always done it is,
at my father's house, we have, my sister and I have a couple of gardens.
I think we figured out total, this is for vegetables about two thirds of an acre.
Uh-huh.
So we each have a third of an acre we do.
Jeez,
that's more than, that's more than the property I have right here, that you've got as a, uh, garden,
That's a lot
that's amazing.
Yeah,
well, it's my dad's,
and we've had it for he's been there for a long time
Right.
so, um, it just happens they built a shopping center next to it
Oh, jeez.
but, um, they put up a nice fence,
so we still have a lot of privacy,
and we grow a lot of food.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I enjoy it,
um, the gardens are kind of old,
you have to step down in them now because we've tilled them so much,
Uh-huh.
but there's still,
we, we, my sister uses probably a fertilizer.
I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
But I wish this phone would stop screeching,
Are you getting a lot of static on your end of the line?
Yes.
I'm trying,
I don't know if it's my phone.
This is bad.
It's not getting any better.
Yeah,
I can't even hear what you're
Oh, okay.
Oh jeez,
it's gone.
I don't see, I don't think my phone really does that,
but every time I have this phone is a little weird,
I mean it's been dropped on the floor a hundred times.
Well, I don't know,
there was
well, whatever it was, there was a second there
I couldn't even hear what you were saying,
but, um,
Yeah,
I was beating on the phone going,
Can you hear me.
Yeah,
I guess I was having a hard time there too.
I thought it sounded,
well, I guess we better stick to the subject for the benefit of the people uh, uh, doing this work.
Yeah.
But, uh,
yeah,
I mean, that's a heck of a
you must have a lot of different stuff you get out of there,
especially up in Vermont there, you should have, uh, some really nice soil.
Yeah,
we grow a lot of, uh, the basic, corn, potatoes.
Uh-huh.
She likes to really get into her pumpkins
and see how many she can grow. corn, potatoes,
and, uh, acorn squash are good winter keepers.
Yeah.
I mean, things the way we grow are carrots, cabbage, that sort of goes to waste
Uh-huh.
you know, we eat it, we,
just too much.
She, she starts her own plants.
She plants a lot of tomatoes
Uh-huh.
I let her do all the planting and putting,
and I, I do a lot of the, uh, a lot of the, the the back work, and stuff.
But she does, she helps me a lot, too.
Uh-huh.
She puts a lot of financial.
She plans it all out.
Beans like to be near certain types of plants.
Now, they find that tomatoes don't do well if you put them next to something like, uh, peas,
I don't know.
Something,
Oh, really
because of like the cross-pollination,
or,
No,
it's just like, something like an onion and a tomato would go together, but you're not supposed to put your onions near your beans.
I guess it's, it's just what scents it gives off,
they just don't like each other.
Huh.
I mean, she, she reads all kinds of books,
so. I wish I knew more to tell you why,
but,
Huh. My mom put, uh, cantaloupes and cucumbers near each other once,
and the got cross pollinated by the bees
Yeah
And we ended up with these, these, like things on the cantaloupe vines that, I mean, were looked like round big huge round cucumbers.
Oh, that's really weird.
Yeah,
I mean, there, these were like some mutant.
I've put my cucumbers down at one end of the garden
and like I'll make an L shape I've put my cantaloupe.
So they've been pretty close together.
Huh.
But I don't think the vines.
They don't they don't have to be touching or anything,
like you say, they cross pollinate just by bees,
No,
it's just the, like the bees and insects will do it.
Um,
Either that or my mom just had some bad seed or something.
Something weird.
Yeah.
This year, this last season it was too wet up here
Uh-huh.
we lost a lot of our root things, our squash and our potatoes,
and we got half our yield.
Oh, well.
It was really bad because of the water.
Yeah,
when I,
my family used to live in Littleton, Massachusetts,
and when we moved in there we had a, a really wet backyard,
and, uh, my mom wanted a vegetable garden.
So we trucked in, uh,
I think it was seven, what was it, cubic, seven yards, cubic yards,
I think that's how they measure dirt
Yeah.
yeah,
seven yards of sand.
I got to shovel it all, lots of fun.
Yeah,
I have to do that,
I want to make some flower beds,
and I'm going to have a seven yard truck come in with some top soil.
Uh-huh.
And I'm going to,
my problem is I want to use those rail ties to build up a planter
Sure.
but I don't know if the creosote in the rail ties is going to do something, you know, if I want to grow a tomato or something in there
Right.
Well, it seems,
I mean, I guess it'd go with my flowers.
I've seen a lot of people use them, you know, for flower beds,
but I don't know what, whether they'd have creosote would do anything,
I mean,
Yeah,
I don't, I don't, I just don't think you,
I always thought I'd put a tomato plant in there or something weird
Uh-huh.
but I don't think I could really eat the fruit off it without wondering.
And I don't know if they make landscape ties that aren't treated.
Well, you can get, um, you can get pressurized lumber,
Yeah,
but they put, some kind of chemicals in there too.
Oh, that's right.
there's even, there's bad chemicals in those too.
Yeah.
Well, I'm not really worried about it,
it's mainly for flower bed,
so I'm not going to, no I'm just not going to put that tomato plant in there.
All right.
But, I,
yeah,
I do want to have a raised bed.
I've never,
my flower gardens are always been like on the ground.
Right.
They don't, it just looks so much better when it's up against the house, tiered up.
Well, you can see it a little better
and it stands out.
Yeah,
this house that I have is just a three bedroom ranch
and I can tell you there's nothing around it, cement foundation all the way around it. Not a shrub, not a bush.
Um.
There was a lilac tree,
and the landlord cut it down and said, Yeah, that's one thing you have to do is keep that lilac bush cut down so it doesn't rub up against the siding
And I'm looking at him like, Jeez.
People would kill to have a lilac bush
and he's cutting it down
So. That's all right.
Flower beds are all right.
Anything, as long as it doesn't rub up against the siding.
Rub up against the siding. Uh,
Yeah,
that's what he's worried about. The trees, or a bush, because lilac bushes, they, they grow fast.
Some people, uh, would really like to have them,
and then the people that do have them, they spread, and they sprout all over their lawn.
Uh-huh.
So, they're kind of a pain,
but, you know, people who don't have them think they're great.
And people who do have them, curse.
Right.
Another thing I have that, um, is weird is the, a locus tree in the back yard.
As a matter of fact there's three of them, very badly trimmed,
they aren't trimmed at all.
Uh-huh.
And I can imagine if I had to mow the lawn in the back, which we said we'd do, if the trees hang down
so, and the locus trees have like three quarters of an inch thorns on it.
Yeah,
they're like,
I think I've seen those before,
but I don't remember what they look like.
They're a pretty tree,
but you just, when you walk up to them they're covered with thorns.
So we're going to get a chain saw and limb it extensively so it gets the trees up overhead,
So it'll give you room to get under it,
sure,
Yeah,
because I can just see brushing up against it, that it would rip your skin.
Yeah.
It's worse than a rose bush.
Um.
Many times worse, because of course, it's a tree.
Oh, a tree is always something very nice to have.
Yeah,
my dad used to work on them,
so I don't think I'll have a problem.
My husband will have problems borrowing one.
then you got to get him to,
if he's going to do it, you've got to twist his arm to get him to go do it.
Well, if that's not the problem ...
Okay,
did you vote in the last, uh, national election?
Yes,
we, uh, uh, I haven't missed a one since I've been eligible to vote.
Oh, that's good.
Did you get to vote at the last one?
I voted in the last national one.
Yeah,
I'm not sure *slash error; one utt with next
if I got the last local one.
Oh, uh-huh,
yeah,
and sometimes the, the local ones aren't as publicized it seems that, uh, they should be.
Yeah,
you're not sure where to go and vote and all that.
Right,
and, uh, there's usually nobody running against, you know, the incumbents.
Right,
or you don't know what they you know, where they stand or anything like that.
Right.
So, uh, but I, I feel that, uh, a lot of people have gotten lazy about voting.
Yeah,
I think you're right.
And, it's, it's, they're,
and also they're fed up with the system,
and they say, well, why should I even vote.
Yeah,
or sometimes they don't like either of the choices for the candidates,
Right.
so they think, well, you know, why vote.
Right.
The lesser of the two evils is how we usually look at it.
Yeah,
really,
especially in Texas
Oh, I know it
The last gubernatorial race was, oh it was awful.
It really was,
yeah.
So I don't know,
I, I,
it'll be interesting to see how the next, uh, few years go.
Yeah
Did they get the serious problem that half the people don't vote.
Yeah,
I think, well, it's, it's definitely a problem,
and I think it could get worse.
Yeah.
You know, we get this lackadaisical attitude,
and say, huh, you know, why should we vote,
then, you know, it could, uh, it could lead to some serious things.
Yeah.
It also seems like maybe another candidate that nobody wants could slip in if, you know, not enough people are voting.
Uh-huh.
Right, uh,
yeah,
we can get, uh, yeah, if we get someone in there like that, then, you know, they could make all sorts of changes that they were, you know, had enough pull.
Yeah,
it's kind of like in Louisiana where that, uh, guy that's like a Ku Klux Klan member something got elected.
Yes.
Uh-huh.
Kind of scary when you think about that.
Yeah,
and, uh, who's the other guy, LaRouche that, uh, is sort of the, uh, socialist, not socialist but
he's so off the wall that, uh, he's gone in and tried to get into city elections
and, uh, but he's got, he's been put away for, uh, credit card fraud, I believe.
Oh, gosh.
Yeah,
Lyndon LaRouche, that's it.
Yeah.
And, uh,
yeah.
Yeah,
people will sit home and assume, oh, that guy would never get elected.
Uh-huh.
Next thing you know, you've got him.
Right.
If you don't go and vote, then, you know, very good chance that they, they will because a lot of the people like that, they'll strike a chord in something, you know, in some of the people, that so will say, look, you know, this guy's got everything together.
Yeah.
You know, I like what he says,
and he'll be so far off the wall that they'll elect him.
Right, yeah.
And, uh, I think that's sort of what happened with Louisiana because, because, um, the guy did get elected, correct?
Yeah.
Right.
That's what I thought.
Yeah,
he sure did.
And, uh, , but you know, they can always fool us, you know.
He might do a good job.
Yeah.
I think one thing that maybe would help people vote is if the polls were either open more days, or you could mail it in, or something like, if you have, if you have real strict work hours, and you can only go like at seven in the morning or after work and you have to stand in line for so long
Oh, yeah.
I think that discourages a lot of people.
What we do, usually, is, uh, vote, uh, absenteeism
Uh-huh.
and, uh, I know, here, you know, you don't have to have any reason,
you can just go and vote
Right.
and the polls are open, what was it, a couple of weeks,
the hours are good
and they're even open on Saturdays and a couple of Sundays.
Uh-huh.
And so we've got plenty of time to go, because down here in Houston, it's, uh, the lines are long.
Yeah,
I'm in Dallas,
and they're long here too.
So, uh, but, uh,
Yeah,
I voted absentee one year.
I really was going to be gone.
So, I did it,
but, uh, it was nice.
I would be tempted to do it again.
Well, uh, I recommend it, because you just walk right on in, and there's usually not anybody in line
Right.
and, uh, you know, that vote's just as good as, you know, the one on election day.
Yeah.
I think they should change the whole system so that it's easier
Uh-huh,
yeah.
I think more people would do it if it wasn't such a hassle.
Um, yeah,
I've been involved with, uh, some of the campaigns and the state conventions of the, of the Republican party.
And it's really interesting to see the process as far as what goes through as far as the voting and the, uh, how the, uh, the not the ballots,
but, uh, my mind has gone blank.
I've been all evening How they develop, uh, what the candidate stands for
Uh-huh,
you know, the views, and, uh, you know, everybody gets to vote on, you know, well, should he be for this and on and on and on,
and, uh, it's, it's interesting.
Yeah,
that would be.
I usually vote.
A lot of times I'll vote a straight party ticket just because I don't take the time to find out what every, you know, other than the major candidates, what they stand for on what issues,
Uh-huh.
so I'll just trust well, the party kind of goes along these lines so I'll go ahead and vote.
Right.
There for a while, that would, that worked.
We've, uh, I know I have, um,
I'll stick to uh, to the, you know, sometimes I'll stick to a certain party, depends on the guy.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, if it, uh, gets down between two, then I'll, I'll vote for the party because I know, you know, something about the other guy
Yeah.
or, you know, they're both just as bad,
and I'll say, Well, I know what this guy stands for as far as for his party,
and, um, but
yeah.
You know, that's not the best way
but,
No,
I guess it'd be best if you knew each person and what they stood for and why and everything.
But it gets to the point where,
I mean, you've got to have the find the time also to read about the guy and, and be able to find the information about what he stands for.
Right,
and try to determine if what you read was objective or not.
Right,
or what you've heard on T V, which I think is just outrageous.
Yeah.
I, I don't agree with how the media handles elections.
Yeah.
I, you know, I'm tired of hearing about the polls, you know, you know,
this is how he stands such and such a day the way they break it out,
Yeah.
it's just, it's just ridiculous.
Yeah,
I think it could affect the outcome, you know, could make it unfair.
Uh-huh,
it really could,
and, uh, then, how, sometimes, how the media will blow things out of proportion and will run an issue into the ground which is good and dead,
and they keep dragging it on,
and it could hamper the outcome of an election for the guy that should have won.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah,
so, uh,
Yeah,
the press has a lot of power.
They really do.
I, I sometimes think that that should be limited more.
Yeah,
oh, but, boy you try get into that,
you'd really open a can of worms.
Oh, yes,
or they, I agree with the freedom of the press, you know, and all the amendments,
but sometimes it's for the public's own good that we don't hear things.
Yeah,
seems that they should regulate themselves a little bit,
and I don't think they ever care to.
No,
they don't.
Well, I can't think of anything else really about the polls or voting, to talk about.
Well, I enjoyed talking to you.
Well, it was good talking to you.
All right.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
Okay,
so do you all keep a budget?
No,
we don't.
You don't?
No,
I, I make so much money here at T I that, that we just spend it.
And we never have a problem meeting it from paycheck to paycheck.
It's pretty neat being that independently wealthy and working for a major semi-conductor firm,
you can just spend it well.
Are you being smart,
or are you serious?
I'm being facetious.
I'm being very comical.
Uh, we have a budget, um that works well.
Uh-huh.
I kind of look at it for more of a,
we have a financial, uh, analyst, a finance administrator, I guess, that, that, uh,
I guess the financial planners, the training now.
We've had it for about four years here.
Uh-huh.
Got our businesses and, and, and our life in line, how to manage credit cards, how to put away, say for, you know, money markets and this kind of thing.
Yeah.
And, there's some freebies out there are
you should put ten to fifteen percent of your monthly bring home in some sort of savings account.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
That being money market, uh, bonds, , savings, uh, or just a liquid account which, which we do.
Uh-huh.
Um, you should always have three months of your salary in a savings account in case there's a major need for that.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
You should always have an umbrella permit that bridges your life insurance and your medical and your, uh, uh, car insurance in case you run into a lawyer and you break his arm.
He's going to sue the pants off of you.
These kind of things are about a hundred dollars a year.
So you know, these are all equivalent to the monthly budget things.
Uh-huh.
Some of them are there to pacify situations.
And some of them are there to prevent things from happening.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, I guess we kind of got away from about the last sixteen months as far as saying, two hundred dollars for food and three hundred dollars for this and two hundred for that because we had a child which is about a year old,
and then uh, we've just been kind of working on,
Uh-huh.
I've been developing it,
but it's kind of hard.
Diaper prices are going up, you know, and formula and stuff, you know.
Uh-huh.
That's funny.
Yeah,
we have a,
we're twenty eight, and he's been working at T I for five years,
and that was pretty much his first real, really major job of any, you know, professional, because he had worked, you know, part time during school and what not,
and, uh, he was a little late graduating,
so we're, you know, uh,
and we have a nine and a half year old son,
and it's because, you know, we were eighteen when we had him,
so, we're, we're kind of looking at this from the other aspect of, we, you know, we have a lot for, to be our age and, you know, just everything, and having the responsibilities we've had on us for, at such a young age.
You know, we have a, like a nice house.
People, you know, are really shocked at how nice everything is in our house.
But, we don't, you know, live in a brand new house, either, maybe a ninety, hundred thousand dollar house
Uh-huh.
but we're in a thirty year old house that would probably sell for forty-five thousand.
Uh-huh.
So, you know, we have trade-offs.
So we're more, we have a monthly budget with this, this, this, this.
But, we have no savings, which isn't real wise,
but we just, we don't have the income at this time really to have any, because we have three debts that we're trying to pay off from both of our student loans.
We're still paying trying to pay those off.
Uh-huh.
And we have one car payment that we don't, I think we have about thirteen months left on it.
Uh-huh.
And after that, we either,
what we want to do is begin doubling up our car payment, um,
they'll pay,
our car payment is equivalent to both of our student loans.
So what we want to do is next year keep driving the same cars and, um, pay on the student loans, split that car payment in half and pay, you know, double up payments on both our loans.
And it'll work out perfect.
Do you have your, uh, loans through the Texas Credit Union?
No,
we don't.
Okay.
Thing about the credit union is, it's, the way it's set up is if you have two thousand dollars left, let's say, on, on the loan.
Uh-huh.
If you go up there and write them a two thousand dollar check it doesn't all go towards principal.
Uh-huh.
They take out for the, for the finances the finance charge, which is kind of, you know,
it's like one of these lose or swim type of credit,
one of those loans is. Not really the best in the world,
but. But, you know, they're, uh,
since your husband is, is, is, um, a T I
but doesn't have the loans with the credit union, they're offering something that might be worth taking a gander at.
Really.
I don't know what your percent is on your, on your car payments
Uh-huh.
but they are, they'll take any T I non-credit union loan like if you have a fourteen percent loan for a new car.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Oh, really.
Uh-huh.
One of the secretaries we have down here is paying twelve percent through G M A C or something.
Uh-huh.
And she's doing it.
I mean, it's not like, it's like.
Does she have to pay to have it refinanced?
I think they even cover that because they want you as a they want the T I to be part of the credit union.
Uh-huh.
T I to,
See,
we got ripped off buying our new car.
We both come out of, uh, drugs and stuff,
and we became Christians about five years ago.
Right when he got home from Terrell. Right before he got hired for T I, he had gotten saved and stuff,
and so, I mean, when you get come out of drugs and stuff, you have nothing,
I mean, you know, you don't have anything.
You have the clothes on your back,
and you might have a car, and that kind of thing.
And so, when he, when he started working at T I, we, uh, you know, we really felt like God told us to buy a new car because he had an older car that was going to need to be fixed and high gas.
But we got ripped off on it because we wanted it financed at four years,
and we were young
and we'd look about nineteen.
People still think we're about,
they ask us where we go to high school when we get our hair cut and stuff, both of us.
And so, it's just kind of strange, you know,
so five years ago we probably looked like real ding dongs, you know.
Yeah.
So we went in, and the financed the car for five,
and we didn't know that.
We got kind of taken, just a little bit.
So we're kind of upset that we're having to, you know, pay this fifth year on the car, because it was just not a wise thing.
But we learned a good lesson.
So, you know.
Well, five years is not that, uh, five years is not that bad of a problem only because you're paying more interest,
but your payments are lower.
Yeah,
but they, they would have only been about twenty dollars a month higher,
and he
Oh, really.
Yeah,
he just told me this last week that he, he said, don't you remember I asked them to finance it at four years
and they came back
and they said that they had it figured for five
and we'd already signed the papers.
And I maybe, I might have been there.
I don't remember hearing that.
But, I also wasn't the one in charge of it,
so I wasn't paying as close of attention.
Sure.
But, anyway, instead of putting our foot down about it, we just went, okay, whatever, you know.
So anyway,
so next time we'll do that different.
We want to next time pay cash for our car, too.
We want to pay cash for everything we can possibly do.
When we buy a house, we attended a Bill financial seminar,
and he has a lot of wisdom on that, just on Biblical, you know, principles to finance.
Uh-huh.
He runs a big, the largest real estate company in Fort Worth debt free.
And we really believe in debt free living and debt free car buying and debt free house buying.
And if we do take out a loan on a house in the future, what we'll do is pay twice a, twice a month on it, and, because you save a lot in interest, just doing that.
Yes.
And then,
You save a lot.
Right.
If, if, if, if,
and you need to be very careful,
if the loan is set up to have bi, they call it a yuppie loan, if it's set up for bimonthly payments.
Right.
If you,
because you'll save fifteen to seventeen years off the end of the loan.
Right.
I'm sorry, seven to nine years off the end of the loan.
Right.
And there are, there is a local firm that'll actually,
if, if,
like in my situation, I don't have that, because the loan was not available.
I can have,
this firm will pick up my loan for a six hundred fifty dollar fee.
So I can cut that much off the end of,
but I'm not interested because we're moving out of the house next year.
Oh really.
Yeah.
But, uh, those are all great.
Uh-huh.
The, the interesting thing, we're getting ready to have a house built
Uh-huh.
it's not, a lot of the firms that offer,
mortgage loan firms, aren't offering, um, that loan.
Uh-huh.
You can ask and you can wheel and deal,
but it's not as open as it should be.
Yeah.
It's a great idea.
Hell, I'd love to cut ours in half,
but, uh
Uh-huh.
man.
And if you figure, get with a financial person.
Yeah.
And you can figure up exactly when like the eighteenth month of a loan, if you make like a four hundred dollar payment over and above your house payment it'll make, uh,
Uh-huh.
it has a magic with numbers.
It, I, it'll shave almost, you know, X number of dollars off,
Right.
Yeah,
we we've become aware of that.
We have a, there's a loan officer through our church, too, that I think could help us better.
You know, he does that full time with the bank, you know.
Uh-huh.
And so we're going to use people that we're in a relationship with that we know, that, you know, we know are people of integrity.
So.
Sure.
You know, that is another thing that, you know,
we feel like our long term goal is going to be benefitted by next time
we buy a car we're not just going to go to Toyota of Irving, you know,
we're going to go to somebody that we know,
we're going to take someone with us older,
and we didn't do any of those things.
Somebody you trust.
You know, there are so many rip-off artists here in this town.
It's, it's, uh, it's really a sin,
it really is.
Yeah.
I got taken on some on firewood.
Really.
I mean, uh, uh, the guy shorted us a half a cord of firewood,
and my wife didn't know,
and I stopped payment on the check,
and he'd already been paid by a cashing firm.
And, and they're suing us, they're suing me on this,
and it's for a hundred and thirty-four dollars.
Oh, my.
Absolutely pathetic.
I stopped payment on a check.
Oh, that's funny.
Oh, this last week, we bought a sewing machine at Zak's,
and then I found that you could get the same machine better for less locally.
Not much less, but it was enough less,
and I found they locally serviced it.
And we just stopped payment on the check.
So I hope they don't sue us over it
But we never received any merchandise either,
so I don't think it would hold Anyway.
Oh, okay,
well
probably something like that,
did you call them and tell them you just, you just.
No,
we didn't even call them.
We just did it.
Maybe my husband should call today.
Might be a good idea, because you're going to get, what, a, a check,
Well, this is kind of ironic because I work in T I legal department.
Do you?
And although we don't have any criminal actions here, we do have other, um, lawsuits that do go to trial from time to time.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, when was it,
a couple weeks ago I was asked to go to, uh, jury duty
I, I wasn't selected
but, um, for some of our cases in particular we have, um, very technical cases from time to time because of like our patents and such.
Sure.
And it's very difficult for lay people for somebody who might just, you know happen to be selected in our jury, to understand what we're talking about.
Well, I do think that the cases like the, uh, oh, say something like Texaco versus Pennzoil,
Uh-huh.
or, or the Texaco Pennzoil problem, uh, is ridiculous for people just taken off the street to understand, and, really should have some better way where people who understand both the circumstances and the complex issues involved, should handle cases like that.
Uh-huh.
Right.
Yeah,
you know, some I don't,
you always have the option,
now in criminal I guess you always have a jury,
but in civil cases you have the option of whether you want a jury or not.
Oh, is that right?
Yeah,
and in some incidences I think they ought to, ought not to have a jury,
Yeah.
um
Okay,
boy.
Or, uh, or there should be some way where it could be opted for them not to have a jury.
Uh, I was only on one jury ever, so far in my life,
Uh-huh.
and, uh, it really was a pretty trivial, case
and it seemed to me all the time I was thinking of all these people in the courtroom over the case that involved, oh, a couple thousand dollars I think, it was, it was really just, uh, uh, terrific waste of everybody's time and money.
Uh-huh.
Um.
And it finally ended up that, uh, even though we had reached a verdict before we were allowed to give it, they settled the case.
Oh.
They they had settled while we were deliberating.
Yeah.
Now, the one thing I did approve of there was that we didn't have to be unanimous because it was a civil case.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, we were split, uh, ten to two
so, it was, uh, a good thing that, it wasn't a total waste of time to have a hung jury on a case that trivial.
Yeah,
well, um, I've never fully served,
I mean, I've been asked twice to go down
but I didn't get elected on the panel,
but, I know, that, um, for a lot of the civil cases it's rare,
I mean, if your a lawyer, um, there, you could be a lawyer who never actually gets into the courtroom
there's a lot of attorneys like that, that never get to the courtroom.
Some, their kind of law doesn't get them to the courtroom,
but even in, um, litigation which is doing lawsuits, is a lot of times that you never get to the courtroom itself
Well, I think that the trial in a sense, is kind of a threat to hold over people to try to get them to reach an agreement out of court, because it does cost so much money.
But it's a shame that, oh,
it's not so bad for the court system because the money there isn't being spent
but there's awful lot of money in time and effort spent in preparing for trial only to then finally get scared enough by going to the court
and usually it's the scare kind of, of the jury because you really don't know one way or the other how that jury is going to feel.
Uh-huh.
You could feel that you really have a very strong case and that you're very much right
but the jury may or may not see it that way,
Sure.
so you get a little you know, anxious there and go well, you know, I don't feel that sure
Yeah.
and who knows what the jury will say because sometimes, you know, the juries come down with a result and you go, gee
Yeah,
I was a witness in a case, in a criminal case.
Uh-huh.
And it was absolutely horrifying to me how that operated because so much evidence was excluded,
and that the jury was never allowed to hear
and they convicted the defendant, I, on as far as I could tell, very flimsy evidence and two perjured testimonies.
And I knew the people involved, both the people who d and the people who, uh, were defendants.
Uh-huh.
And,
yeah,
I think that was just a, a horrible miscarriage of justice because of the, uh, you know, staying by the absolute strict rules and not allowing things to be presented to the jury, that, uh, were highly irrelevant to the case and could, I thought, have established the defendant's innocence.
Yeah.
So, uh, I do,
although I'm a lawyer's daughter and I have lawyer's, and judges on both sides of the family, and uncles and cousins and things like that, I really think that we have gotten into much, too legalistic of society and that we, we spend far too much on the fine points of the law and far too little on achieving justice.
and it seems a lot of times that, uh, especially in criminals that, their rights are so protected
but what about the rights of, you know, the rest of society,
I mean, we're protecting this person's rights who has broken the law, um,
Uh-huh.
and we protect him so much,
but what about the rest of the society,
you know, what are we doing for them,
we're kind of, you know, forgetting about them
and, I think sometimes that a criminal should kind of,
if he breaks law, especially it he's a repeater, the law shouldn't just always cover for him,  that some of his rights as should be taken.
Well, and then in a lot of,
Yeah,
in criminal cases, uh, for instance, you can't bring up prior convictions unless they are somehow directly related to the case.
And it seems to me that a jury can make a much more rational decision if they know somebody had fifteen convictions for a similar crime,
Yeah.
now it's possible that he didn't commit the
but the likelihood certainly tilts it .
Yeah.
With a record like that.
And, that was one of the things that we're not allowed to, was not allowed in the, uh, trial I went to,
Yeah.
though, uh, one of the two people who gave the perjured testimony, had a long criminal record and had been, you know, a real sleaze bag.
And he came in and was presented to the court as a standing young man who had, uh, been in seminary to become a priest,
and,
but I happen to know his background
and I know that he would have sold out his mother for, uh, uh, shorter sentence.
Jeez.
And, you know, it's, it's really annoying when the,
I asked the defense attorney later why he didn't bring up all this other trouble the guy had been in.
He said that, that was barred, uh, by the court.
Um,
So, we do have some problems
and it seems to me that, uh, maybe it's time to just scrap all the case law and go back to general principles and start over. And then make a legal system that carefully protects people
but, uh, where you,
Yeah,
I'd even go for, for trying to get some truth out of the witness stand if they come up with some pretty reliable, uh, um, lie detector tests that we can see right then and there whether they're lying or telling the truth.
Yeah.
Yeah,
that would be wrongful .
Yeah, you know.
Sure would.
Yeah,
I witnessed one trial many years ago when I was first, um, studying to be a paralegal
and, uh, uh, they barred priors on this, uh, person
and they never then told us, I guess, because priors had a reason as to why these two people were very much in hatred of each other.
Um.
And they never told us why these two people had such a vendetta against each other
and the crime was, uh, uh, attempt to commit murder, you know,
Um.
but they never told us why these people were mad at each other
and gee, you know,
that's,
And you think that would be relevant.
Yeah,
you know, because they, they told us in school that, you know, crime has to be an intent, you know, has to be not just the act but you have to intend to do it
because there could be accidental kind of things, you know,
Right.
but they never told us why these two people, hated themselves or if one had done something to, you know, really aggravate the other
there was never any motive, given
Uh-huh.
and, and I had a tough time with that
and, and being a person who saw what the jury didn't plus what the jury did, because we were just observing, you know, there in the courtroom, at the end of it all, I still didn't know
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
right.
I still have a lot of reasonable doubts
and I've seen everything presented
and, you know, they just haven't done a real complete case here to my thinking.
Uh-huh.
I don't know that I want to,  sit on a jury like that
I think so,
and I,
and you'd still, you know,
I want ask some questions here
Yeah,
that's something I thought would be a very good idea of when juries come in they are told just to shut up and listen.
Uh-huh.
And it seems to me that you'd get a lot more, uh, information if your questions were heard, if you were allowed to ask the witnesses things, or if, or the lawyers things or even the judge.
Uh-huh.
Right.
But particularly the witnesses.
Right.
Yeah,
allow them to, uh, go back and, and deliberate and, uh, you know, after each days proceedings come out with some questions that they want answered like the next day, bring those people back,
Or if they would allow them to, uh, give broader answers, they,
it's really kind of, uh, choreographed.
It's like a script has been written when people testify.
They aren't testifying really in their own words,
Right.
Yeah,
I can remember, uh, friends of Daddy ...
There we go.
Okay.
Well, uh, what do you think about taxes,
do you think we're paying too much?
Yes and no.
Income tax, no.
I, uh, I look at it this way, uh, you've got to pay for the privilege of living here.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, being a, uh, a rec vehicle owner,
well, in fact, I live in a motor home.
I'm a what they call a full timer
and, uh, it burns gas like crazy.
I only get seven miles to the gallon.
I really resent this fact that they keep adding on gasoline taxes
and they call it, uh, uh,
what's the word they use,
anyway, a, a luxury tax.
Yeah.
They add it on on to tires and gasoline, cigarettes, liquor.
It doesn't bother me any because I've quit drinking
and I quit smoking.
So, that doesn't bother me
but I don't think it's fair.
Yeah.
It's too, um, um, it's attacking just certain people.
How true.
Even with the gasoline tax.
Yeah.
Well, gasoline, especially, in this part of the country we all use it all the time, you know,
it's, that's not what I would consider a luxury.
No.
Uh, fifty years ago the automobile was a luxury
but it's a necessity today
and, uh, as hard as they try to get these public transit things going I have never seen nor heard of one that really got of the ground. Or that accomplish what they set out to to accomplish.
Yeah.
What are your feelings on it?
Well, um, I, I think that we probably are paying a little too much tax considering what we're getting for it and how it's being managed and so forth.
I mean, I, I think there could be a better system
and we would get more for our money.
It's totally out of our hands
so we don't, we can't really do a whole lot about how that money is spent and where it goes
and, uh,
Yeah.
That, that's, that's so true.
I mean, they say well, you voice your opinion, uh, uh, uh, on election day.
But not really.
No,
you don't.
Look what happened on the last presidential election,
read my lips.
And what happened they turned around and double crossed us.
Yeah.
So, uh, I mean, you can't believe what you hear.
Well, I think too,
one of the things that rubs me the wrong way the most is those programs that are funded by Congress and, uh, that don't seem to have any validity at all.
I mean, they're always far out
and, uh, you know, they're studying some obscure bug, you know, in some other part of the world or some such thing,
Oh.
Uh, yes.
and our tax money pays for those things
and I think that's wrong.
I,
I agree
and, and, uh, I, I also think we extend too much help to other, uh, countries
we need enough help here in this country.
That's right.
They're still people starving people here *They're There're
why should we help starving people somewhere else.
Yeah.
And I think here lately they've been saying quite often and maybe somebody's coming to realize we're the nation in trouble.
Absolutely.
Now I can't wait for, uh,
I, I could just picture what's going to happen here in the not to distant future.
We keep hearing well, we're going to receive, uh, eight billion dollars from Japan for the, uh, uh-huh, the, the, the big, war over there in the Mideast.
The war.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, so many billions of dollars here and there and everything
and, uh, the next thing you know we'll be turning around just like we did to Poland
and say, well, just forget it.
Yeah.
And I think that's a mistake.
Oh, definitely.
Somewhere, you know, we have to realize that we can't just keep giving it away.
Well, another thing now they keep decontrolling different things.
First, it was the airlines then it was banks and, and, uh, um, savings association, and whatnot.
We know what trouble they got into
Exactly.
And the same with the airlines back in the days when they were, uh, controlled and, and, uh, Transcontinental or, um, um, Interstate, uh, Trucking.
I mean, as soon as the federal government gave up control on all that, they just went to hell in a hand basket.
Yeah.
Prices went sky high.
Then, in, in the case of airlines, of course, they became highly competitive
and they cut each others throats until they're, they reach the point where they're cutting their own throat.
And, uh, well, of course, that's getting away from taxes isn't it,
that's government controlled.
But, uh,
Well, I, I think another thing too that, um, I've had a little contacted with, uh,
in regard to taxes let's say that, uh, you have something that the I R S disagrees with or, you know, says, hey, we're not going to allow that.
Well, I think they're very unfair in the amount of penalties and interest that they can attach to that because you, you will not only payback that that you wrote off
but you will at least double that amount
and,
Oh, by the time you get through with the, uh the penalties.
Yes.
And that's, to me there's something wrong there, you know.
Yeah.
I mean, I can see paying the interest and some small penalty
but they really stick it to you big time.
Uh, I agree.
I think the I R S is, uh, just too powerful.
There should be some sort of a control on it.
And they should be a little more humane.
Uh-huh.
Absolutely.
Uh, the, uh, typical bureaucratic, I guess. That's, that's one of my pet peeves.
I came up with a brilliant idea how we could reduce the, the budget.
Uh-huh.
Very simple.
Give, uh, uh, uh, government employees the average number of, uh, holidays as the, uh, private industry.
Yeah.
I mean, you think about it now,
they, they get about sixteen holidays a year.
That's a lot.
It sure is.
And I think here at TI we get, what is it nine or ten?
Well, I haven't counted.
I, I would have guessed eight even
but you might be right.
I don't have any idea.
Well, I remember, uh, uh,
thinking, I think it was the last time I did hear that we get about the average.
Maybe even a little more, a day or so more than the average.
Yeah.
But, uh, government is ridiculous.
Wow.
Just think of the money they could save.
I mean, they're, they're paying out this money anyway.
Yeah.
Why not get the work out of the people.
Yeah.
And, well, anyway that would, of course, eventually come back to taxes.
But, uh, as far as income tax is concerned, I can't complain too much about it.
Uh, I'm single,
I have no, uh, dependents or anything,
my children are all grown
and they're out worrying about their own income taxes.
Yeah.
Well, I, I have another thing that I thought about too, for instance, when you try to save money and you earn interest on whatever your investment is
and, you know, we're not typically talking about big dollars
but here you feel like you've, you've done something good
you've, you've earned your interest
and then you have to go back and pay taxes on it.
So, the real amount of your savings on that is, is, not much.
Uh, very true.
That's,
You know, it's kind of a vicious circle there.
And then they tell you to, uh, well, invest it in, uh, is it I R A or something
and, and, when you turn, When you turn sixty-five why then you pay the tax on it
And then, at a took that away as far as being,
and the tax is a lot less.
Yeah.
But in the mean time you've got your money tide up in a low, relatively low interest bearing investment.
I mean, it's not making ten, fifteen percent like a business is today.
Huh-uh.
Uh, me I'm a firm believer in that if you got it spend it.
Well, you can come over to my house and spend it
Well, you, well, do you, do you need some help spending yours?
I wish I had some to spend.
No.
No.
I just don't have any.
Oh, uh-huh.
Well, that's my problem too.
I'm, I'm trying to figure out from one payday to the next whose going to be the lucky one this month that's going to get paid.
Yeah.
That's the way it goes
Well, I guess we probably talked just about long enough.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Uh, let me ask you something.
Did you get a catalog or something from these people?
Yes.
You did?
Uh-huh.
I've, everybody I've talked to has received one
but I haven't gotten mine.
Uh, I don't know.
Um, well, anyway Ellen, it was nice talking to you.
You too.
And, uh, until next time.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
Good-bye.
Uh, no
I think that maybe the, the automation people that are very discrete. Or not discrete, electronic devices.
Oh, okay.
Oh.
So, and, did he, is he the one that got you connected with us?
Uh-huh.
Okay.
It's a lot of fun.
Yeah.
You want to punch the button and go?
Sure,
you ready?
Yip
Okay.
Well, are you going to buy a car soon?
Well, it won't be too much longer because my husband and I are both going to retire.
And when we retire we're going to buy us, a, you know, a new one and, and get rid of the two that we have right now.
And what are you going to buy?
I I don't know,
we're either going to buy a pick up,
or we're going to buy a van.
Or we're going to buy an economy car,
how do you like that
Well, have you been listening to Iacocca's arguments that, uh, that Chrysler products are the only ones that, that all have air bags?
Uh, yeah.
Does that make a difference to you?
Yeah.
It sure does.
I really would like to have something like that,
and I'm hoping that by you know,
that's like, right now,
my husband would like for me to buy another vehicle right now.
But I keep saying lets put it off, lets put it off, because I'm hoping they'll get so many better features.
Yeah,
like what?
Well, just like that air bag.
I think that thing is fantastic.
Because I've seen some of the, you know, like the head on collision type things, when they had it and people walk away from it.
Yeah.
We had one here,
I guess it was about three weeks ago,
and the people walked away from the, wreck, with no scratches nothing. You know, a few bruises.
That's .
did you see the, uh,
I don't know if it was TWENTY-TWENTY, last Thursday or Friday night on, on seat belts?
Uh-huh.
Did that scare you a little bit? With the lady being thrown out and run over.
Uh-huh.
You got it.
I, I, tell you what,
I would not, I would not buy a car that had the seat belt where it was hooked under the door.
that really
I, I guess, I,
that, that a little more than scared me,
that irritated me, uh,
that,
because it, it, it surely didn't come as a surprise that, that if the door came open the lady would fall out,
I mean, and,
Well, you know what the average person,
would you ever have thought of that?
uh
I mean now
no,
probably, well,
you probably wouldn't have,
I might,
the problem is I'm really into cars,
and so it's not a, uh,
for me it's, it's a real, it's a real consideration, uh, uh,
and, and, uh, the,
but no
I probably wouldn't have even though I'm really quite into cars
it's, it's probably my main hobby.
Right
because you always think,
I mean, I don't know,
maybe you don't,
but just like me, I always think well, you know, these things must be safe,
but that's just like,
I don't know if you've heard about it a few years ago, they said, you know, before they had the, like the shoulder strap thing where it was just like a seat belt that goes across your waist?
Yeah.
All these people were,
and, and it, it was on one of those kind of shows like TWENTY-TWENTY
Uh-huh.
these people were like paralyzed,
and because, it threw them forward,
but they were hooked at the waist,
and so it like, you know, did something to their spinal cord
Yeah.
then they were like paraplegics.
yeah,
you know, ROAD AND TRACK had a, had some articles on,
and particularly with, with back seat, uh, with some, where kids, were, were sitting in the back seat with seat belts on,
and they were thrown forward, into the front seat,
and there was enough stretching, the combination of stretching the spine to, uh, I mean, the serious injury, even though they were, they were still locked in the
Right.
they were forced to go,
so really if your sitting in the back seat, your better off not not to have your seat belt on, if it's just a seat belt.
Yeah.
We have a van, that, uh, just has seat belts in the back doesn't have a shoulder harness
Well, tell me about your van.
Do you like it?
I have an Arrow Star van,
we really do.
Uh, it's, it's a mini van,
we've had it,
goodness in May will be five years
and, uh, they replace the engine at sixty thousand under extended warranty.
And the transmission was replaced
but they really are nifty, uh,
the mini van, it's
actually, we had a station wagon before,
and it's a foot or two shorter than a,
we had a regular size station wagon
Uh-huh.
and it really, uh,
we like it,
it, the
interestingly enough one of the features we like are the electric locks.
Huh. The reason that we're thinking about something like that, we took a trip in my brother in law and sister in laws to Florida
Uh-huh.
and, like I said, I mean, we're not that old
but my husband works for the State,
and after a certain amount of years you can retire.
And when he retires I'm retiring.
Well, as soon as I get my quarters in, I'm, retiring period,
Uh-huh.
that's it,
Yeah.
you know, no more
Well, but, the,
did you, did you go to Florida in a van?
As though
Uh-huh
And we wanted to travel,
well, that was really nice traveling
but you know, I like to know more, I mean, hear about more people that have things like that you know?
Yeah.
And see what they think of them,
the different kinds
Yeah.
because I've only ridden in the one,
What, what kind was it?
that's it.
Uh, shoot
I can't even think of the name of it now.
What, what was remarkable, this van, even with, the,
we have two kids,
and we went to Disney World
Uh-huh.
uh, actually I grew up in Alabama,
and I went to see my mother,
and then went on down to Disney World,
and it got better than, I think twenty-two, twenty-three miles a gallon.
And this was with the air conditioner on and, and you know four people with, with luggage,
Yeah.
and, uh, course this,
grant it,
that's, you know, it's been four years ago,
but it's remarkable that the, that the bigger vans, uh, they're, uh,
my boss just bought a, a pick up truck,
and, uh, he only gets seventeen miles a gallon.
Yeah.
But it, it has a big engine,
and it, it, pulls a boat and stuff,
but it's, and it, it's got the seats
that, and the other thing that is interesting, is it has, uh, rear air conditioning.
Uh-huh.
And that, that makes a lot of difference in those of us that live in warm climates.
Yeah.
Well, now, this one that we went in,
it did
to baby what kind of van was that that we went to Florida in?
Ford.
A what?
Ford.
A Ford?
Ford what,
you remember?
conversation with He was trying to think of what the name of it was,
Well, the big, you know, the big vans are all, real nice,
this was a big one.
I mean it was a big one,
yeah,
oh those are
it has the front and the back and you know, it has the uh, back seat let down into a double, I mean a queen size bed
yeah.
Yeah.
and then it had the two swivels in the middle, and then the two swivel chairs on the front
All right.
and, I mean it was fantastic,
Uh-huh.
and it got good gas mileage,
but I don't know
I don't really, I don't,
I want something I can drive too, you know,
Well well, the mini, that,
and I was scared to drive that big van.
you'd be surprised if, if you drive a, one of the, the mini vans, uh,
more or less alike the, the, uh, Chevrolet
and, uh, well of course, Oldsmobile has got one,
and Chryslers got one,
but they drive remarkably like cars.
Well, do you, does yours have that this one had it where you know, you would see something coming in the rear view mirror, I mean not the rear, those little side mirror things
Yeah.
and it would look like it was further back than it was.
Yeah
but, the little, thing etched in it,
say objects are, are closer than they appear or something
Yeah,
does yours do that too?
Yeah.
Oh. I was wondering if all vans did that,
Well you, you can, you can, uh, install those mirrors,
we've got the big side mirrors, which are really nice.
I don't know if you've, well, if you've driven a pick up truck, you know,
these are, these, uh, mirrors must be six inches across not nearly a foot high,
Uh-huh.
and they're really nice, uh,
got them on both sides,
actually they, they fold, so when you get in tight situations, you can fold them back.
Yeah,
But they're
well, see that's the reason we couldn't make, really make them,
at first we were going to get a pick up truck, with a camper on the back of it, of it,
uh-huh.
but then that gas mileage was just atrocious,
I mean it's, unreal,
Uh-huh.
it's, it just practically don't get any.
Well, they have got, some of the newer ones they, you know, with the aerodynamic features,
you can get pretty, pretty decent gas mileage.
Yeah.
And then, uh, he talked about a van,
and I said, well, you know, I don't know, I don't know how the gas is on most of these.
And another thing was
that's the reason I said you know, there was such a big difference you know, in a little economy car,
but I said maybe we might have to get us an economy car to pull along when we went somewhere.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
But really and truly the safety features
but I wouldn't get one that,
if it had, the seat belts on the door now I wouldn't get it.
Yeah.
Period.
Ford now announced I think in ninety-two, they're going to put, uh, air bags in their, in their vans.
Oh that would be good.
So, uh, and I think, I, I believe safety,
I, I, I, I really do believe in this stuff, uh,
and I, I think it can go, ,
I'm not,
the air bags are a good deal
but, uh, surprisingly, uh, they're, uh,
you really need to do,
you need a combination of both the air bags and the, uh, and the seat belts
Oh I think so too,
so,
I don't think they should do away with the seat belts now.
Yeah.
I'm
but I think you need the shoulder thing
Yeah.
I think you need the thing around your waist,
but, I think you need that bag to pop out too.
Yeah.
You know, because I know so many people, here that have been killed in head on collisions, where maybe if they had, had that, that air bag, they may still be walking around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, uh, I think it's fantastic.
I wish they required it in everything.
Every new car that came out, I wish they would require it in it.
It would be that would do to our insurance rates, you know, if, if, uh, if the insurance companies says it, says we're not going to pay, you know, a claim, if, if the car doesn't have, uh, air bags.
Would be interesting wouldn't it?
Yeah.
Uh, that wouldn't be fair
but, uh,
Well, no because what they would do is, that's what they're going to plan on, you know,
they would have to do it,
the insurance company would have to do the same thing.
They're given like, a ten year time limit where,
Yeah.
okay.
These cars, I guess they figure all the old cars, will be off the roads or something by the, in ten years
Yeah.
and then, you know, if you didn't have a car that had one, then your insurance would go up enormously,
Uh-huh,
uh-huh,
uh, I've got to go
my son's in a performance tonight,
I have to leave, in a couple of minutes.
Oh that's okay,
Uh, I think we've probably spent a reasonable amount of time.
Okay.
It was good talking to you,
Well, you, you too.
Okay.
Good night.
All right
bye bye.
Okay,
Dee, are you familiar with the Latin American policies?
Yeah,
to a point,
it's not my best subject.
Really,
yeah
it's not mine either,
but, uh, I know, I know our policy,
like in Nicaragua, I am familiar with that because we have, uh, some friends that live on the Nicaraguan border
and they are missionaries there
and they, they live there
and they have to travel by boat forty-five minutes to get to their car and stuff,
and uh, I know that they helped a lot of those Sandanistas refugees coming across the border
and they housed them and stuff.
They have been down there about three years now,
and they wrote that it's kind of weird
they have bats in their roof,
but the bats eat the bad spiders
so they leave the bats, you know.
So.
Yeah.
It's a whole, whole different culture
or, It, it's weird down there because there's always lizards and things running around that people live there,
Uh-huh.
they just, they take it for granted
and it's like we go down there on vacation,
it's like oh, how can these people live with these lizards and like bats in their house?
Yeah.
I think their policy with them that though, is, uh,
I don't know,
I think,
I wish we would have just,
I'm not that up on the policy of ways.
I know that's kind of old,
but I don't know,
I just, I'm glad that the Sandanistas aren't in power anymore because I think that they were very wicked. And, uh, probably some of the biggest drug dealers that the world has probably ever seen,
and I feel like most of the leaders in Latin America are probably,
you would be safe to say that they were just very very, you know, big into drugs.
Very very corrupt, like the Panamanians are, were very corrupt.
Right.
The thing about it though is the Panamanians is, a lot of servicemen down there.
A lot of, a lot of American servicemen are involved,
Uh-huh.
because I guess there was a big, big, uh, scam that, that all these guys up.
Thousands of servicemen, got caught for running a drug ring.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
So, it's, it's like everybody is into it,
it's just greed. Human greed.
Yeah.
Interestingly in Honduras, It's very pro-American.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And we have I,
my girlfriend used to, uh, be in the Navy
and she was based, uh, based in Panama.
Uh-huh.
In Honduras, very, uh, uh, pro-American.
Uh-huh.
And there's a lot of men, I don't know how many American, uh,
soldiers are there,
but there's a lot.
I mean, they, uh,
I had wondered sometimes,
I knew that there was a lot of, a lot of effort
and a lot of work went into a lot of that,
and I just wondered if, if it lasted, and if it took, you know,
like, uh,
Uh-huh
Yeah,
I've, you know, some of the programs I would have concern about like, um, the language teaching, you know,
I mean, why should we push English,
Uh-huh
and a lot of people were down there teaching English
and when they talked about Hungary or someplace, one of the eastern law countries requesting Peace Corps to teach language, you know, to me that's a little bit marginal.
I did teach economics at the university one night a week,
and the textbook was in English,
but basically I taught it in Spanish, because, I mean, I really didn't see the point in their knowing stuff rotely and writing it on a test.
Oh.
Yeah,
my brother-in-law teaches at, uh, Northern Illinois University
and they were in China, here a couple of years ago,
and he was over there at, uh, the University of Shah and, and teaching ...
So, uh, describe your family budget.
Well, I've, uh, for a lot of years I, I've pretty much flied without one,
and, uh, just recently, uh, we, we set up a budget,
and, and we're trying to stick to it.
We just bought a new house.
So we've got everything, you know, pretty much we know what our, uh, our fixed expenses are per month,
and then we've got some ones that are variable, that pretty much stay within a certain range,
and then, uh, then there's the ones that you never know anything about,
and that's, that's the food
Well, yeah,
and to some extent, utilities, I imagine.
well, the utilities are pretty much,
you can pretty much figure what they're going to be,
and one of the nice things here is the electric company has a plan where they'll average them out for you.
They have that to some extent here,
but it's not quite as good.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, transportation expenses,
I guess you own a car.
Yes
sir.
And you know how much you're going to drive every week?
Well, I used to, um, I used to know, uh, fairly close to exactly how many miles I drove, because I, I was very convenient, I lived, uh, nine tenths of a mile from work.
Huh.
So, so, it was, you know, two miles a day to and from work.
So it kind of cut my transportation costs a lot.
But now I've just bought a new house,
and I'm a half hour,
and so my transportation costs have gone up by, uh, five times
Yeah,
I understand that.
We, we have a real similar situation.
Ours, uh, have quintupled, at least.
So there is a real family budget.
Yeah,
pretty much, um.
The problem is there never seems to be enough money.
I have three children,
and it seems like the more money you make, the more money you have, the more things that they seem to need,
and, uh, of course, nothing ever goes down,
I mean, uh, I remember,
I have five children total.
I have three left in the house.
Yeah.
And I can remember years ago, when school would start,
and I'd go buy all five kids, you know, shoes,
and I could get out of the, out of the shoe store without spending more than thirty-five dollars.
Nowadays, thirty-five dollars buys about one pair of shoes
If you're lucky.
yeah,
so I mean things have just really gone out of sight in the last, uh, I guess about the last ten years.
Exempt or nonexempt.
I'm exempt.
Wow,
must be nice.
Part of the high price spread. Uh,
no,
well, we don't, we do,
but we don't have a family budget.
We have the fixed things we have to pay.
Uh-huh.
And we have the things that are extras.
But it seems that by and large the extras just don't exist.
Yeah.
And, well, you know, the auto budget,
car payment sucks a hell of a lot of it dry.
Uh-huh.
And insurance,
is insurance bad there?
Um, I've got, uh, two older cars.
There both,
one's a seventy-seven
and one's a seventy-eight.
Well, we've got one eighty-nine.
And my insurance is about, it was running about four hundred dollars a year.
But when I moved to the new town I live in,
because it's a different county, which has less crime, and, uh, less, you know, less highways
and so it's a cheaper place to live, as far as the insurance company's concerned,
so my, my, I think my insurance dropped about sixty dollars a year.
Wow.
That's not bad,
four hundred and something a year.
That's, that's,
It's actually three hundred and forty for each one of the cars.
That's cheaper than we pay.
Yeah,
I was down in Texas for two years,
and I was paying unbelievable rates for both car insurance and for home insurance. Um,
Well, here in Colorado it's even worse because we have no fault.
Yeah.
Do you have that there?
they have no fault in Maryland also.
Well, no fault's rather funny in Colorado, because it seems that everyone pays all the time instead of just the guilty party pays.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
It's kind of, it's kind of strange here the way things go. Uh,
here if you have an accident and no one's injured, the police won't even show up.
You're kidding.
Nope.
They say if nobody's injured, you all exchange names and take it up with your insurance company.
God.
Well, if you,
I don't know how familiar you are with Maryland,
but, uh,
Not at all.
especially, the center part of Maryland where I Ninety-Five runs through it is really heavily populated.
There's just so many people and so many accidents every single day that it'd take a whole another police force just to answer the traffic.
They don't even try to keep up with it.
No.
God.
Not a bit.
So you lived in Texas for a while.
Yes
sir.
Huh.
I spent, uh, couple of years down there.
Moved down there in eighty-seven
and moved out in eighty-nine.
Are, where you from originally.
Uh, right here in Maryland.
Huh,
so you just basically went home when you had a chance.
Yeah,
my family, uh, didn't like Texas,
and I had a chance to, uh, transfer up.
T I bought a company about seven months after I moved to Texas, right here in .
That's nice.
So I got an opportunity to transfer back,
and I took it.
God,
that's great.
Uh, I'm a native Texan.
Uh-huh.
West Texan.
Yeah.
There is a difference.
Yeah,
believe me,
I know there is.
I lived in Plano,
and I don't know if you're familiar with Plano
Yeah.
but Plano, maybe five percent of the Plano actually were from Texas.
Everybody else was an import.
Well, I'm a West Texan.
Uh-huh.
Lubbock, Midland Odessa Amarillo, Dumas, Panhandle.
Yes.
Yeah.
A different world from down there.
Yeah.
So, uh, Colorado's been fun.
But they have a real problem.
Next to every window the state seems to have put up a turnstile.
And every time you look at a, look at the mountains or think about looking at the mountains, you got to throw in a dollar.
Yeah.
Or so it seems.
I may just be paranoid,
but that state income tax is just eating me alive.
Yeah,
yeah,
they have a state income tax in Maryland.
But I noticed when I was in the, in the, in Texas, they didn't have a state income tax,
but they sure nailed you on those darn county taxes and, school taxes and property taxes,
Yeah,
yeah.
Property taxes and,
Oh my God,
ate you alive.
Yeah,
well, Colorado, you know they have the state income tax,
but then they also have property taxes,
and they also have sales taxes,
and they just get you every direction they can.
Yeah.
And I just don't know, sir,
but it seems like they trying to get you every which way.
Yeah,
it sure does. Um,
there's, uh, some good books that I've read, um, that you might be interested in. Uh
Oh yeah?
Charles D. Gibbons is the guy who runs some ads on light night T V
and he's got seminars you can go to,
and they try to hook you into his organization, which costs about four hundred bucks.
But he's got a couple of books out.
One of them is called, uh, WEALTH WITHOUT RISK.
I've heard of the book.
Yes,
it's a very good book.
It's tells you how to cut money on your taxes and on your insurance and then what to do with the money that you save.
Legally?
Legally, cut money on your taxes.
Yes,
yes,
Huh.
legally, legally cut money on your taxes, and on your insurance,
and then he tells you how to invest that money in order to, uh, you know, be wealthier. Uh,
he also has a new book out that I purchased right before I moved and haven't had a chance to crack it open yet. Um,
FINANCIAL SELF DEFENSE is the name of it. Uh,
the man, uh, has a lot of good ideas,
some of them I already knew about,
some of them I had already practiced.
But I suggest it to anyone who wants to be better off financially to read it because, uh,
And that includes everyone at T I.
Yes,
I'm one of the ones that had my salary frozen for ninety-one.
Yes.
Well, even, the, you know, the nonexempts, technically yet we haven't had our salary frozen yet.
Yet.
But when you're only at living wage it doesn't matter.
You know, survival is a funny state.
Yeah,
I know what you mean.
I, uh, when I was in Dallas I was supervisor,
and I had four non exempts, um, under me.
Yeah.
And, uh, I was appalled at what, how they were paying them.
I just couldn't believe it.
Did, well, I've been with the company for sixteen years now.
I was a W F for several years,
and it just never seems to improve.
It, and it doesn't seem to get much better for the exempts either, unless you're twenty-eight or above.
Yeah,
yeah.
It's really a shame.
Well, I, I've, this company that they bought, they ended up buying a very high payroll.
Oh.
And, uh, the, you know, I thought I was making a good wage,
So, how do you feel about the metric system?
Oh, I like it.
I, I, I have a foreign, actually I have more than one foreign automobile.
And I, I, I find the, uh, I find the, the nondecimal system with all the halves and quarters,
I was trying to build a shed
and they give you these measurements like forty-two and three eighths inches
and we had to go a little less and trying to figure what's less than three eighths, uh ...
Yeah,
and it's,
I forget how many millimeters.
So you used the metric?
Well, no.
What we did was wind up using,
and you just go, you just go down
and, and you get out the, the, so many inches
and, and we just marked a little bit less than that, uh, which is somewhat awkward
but had it been millimeters, you could have done.
I think what's interesting,
the way engineering people do is they,
they, in essence, have gotten around it by, by listing, uh, decimal inches.
Uh, yeah,
yeah.
Do are you involved in any engineering drawing stuff that?
Uh, yeah,
yeah.
Uh, I work in metal fab
and tenths of inches are, are normal.
And, you know, you know, it is broken up in, you know, the inch is broken up and has been for quite some time for, in tenths, hundredths, thousandths, ten thousandths, of an inch.
Well, have, have you, do you, are you involved in any other, uh, metric type things like ...
Yes,
I am.
I, I have a Suzuki motorcycle
and, and I've had motorcycles, Japanese motorcycles for years and years
and the metric system comes easy to me.
But my ...
I think it's interesting you you know, when you go out there
and you're looking for a wrench
and you want the next size larger.
I've got, I inherited some, some stuff like fifteen thirty seconds.
Right.
Well, now that one's fairly easy, because that's probably slightly under half an inch.
But some of them, like, like, twenty-seven
and, and there are some thirty seconds and some of the things that, that, uh, don't translate.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
To go from, from eighths to sixteenths to, uh, thirty seconds and remember where it falls, it ...
Yeah.
and, and you've got to go over there and try it
and I suppose, you know, I need a larger one.
I need a smaller one.
I mean obviously you can look at it and say well, anyway.
I think the other thing that's interesting is that a lot of our stuff is already changed that we haven't,
I don't know,
do you, do you drink adult beverages?
Yeah,
I drink beer.
have you noticed that, um, that a lot of the, um, a lot of ...
Yeah,
whiskey is in liters.
Yes.
And, and the next,
yeah,
point seven five liters and then liters and then one point seven five liters,
yeah.
It's like a fifth, like fifths of whiskey I thought was always kind of strange.
Yeah.
What's a fifth of whiskey?
Yeah.
I, I always wondered about that myself.
It was a marketing ploy.
And, and they had quarts at the same time though.
Yeah.
But the idea was, is that by, with five fifths, um, they could, uh, they could, uh, they could sell five
and, and, um, it was simply a ploy to, to get people, you know to buy, to buy more for,
Yeah.
it's, uh, I find that interesting.
It's ...
But it's like, you know, the, the, the, the soda and this kind of things coming in one liter bottles
Liters.
and, um, I, I think it's kind of generational.
Yeah.
It, it's, like I say, I work in a machine shop
and, uh, everything's still inches.
Everything's still fractions of inches, or or tenths  or thousandths, or, or ...
Yeah.
It's, it's hard to think  though.
Yes.
it is a mental thing.
It is a conversion thing.
It's like a mill, you know.
We, we do, uh, um, well we use a one mill bond wire or one point five mill bond wire on on semiconductor devices.
Right.
And well, what's a mill
and ...
Yeah,
yeah.
But what really annoys me is the way we, in the United States, have been converting to metric.
We have a eighty-nine Chevy Blazer.
And before that we had a Horizon. Uh, you know, Plymouth Horizon?
Yeah.
And both of them were a mismatch of both American and metric.
Don't you find that interesting? Uh, that they, that that they're doing that, uh, in any field,
for why, why, why pieces,
could you, could you get any connection on which was metric and which wasn't.
Uh, okay.
The engine itself was mostly metric because it came from Canada.
Oh, okay.
And the starter was Bosch American,
so.
The bolts were, were were, were English then.
Yeah,
yeah.
It was, it was annoying.
One, one half of the starter you know, three bolts on the starter
and two of them were American
and one of them was metric.
Now that's strange.
And, uh, you go from the, uh, water pump up to the radiator
and on the water pump, it was all metric.
And, and on, you know, the factory fittings, you know, the factory, uh  screw lock uh, uh, radiator hose clamps.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Essentially they do that though
because if, if you look at General Motors, the size
and, and, and of course, Ford and Chrysler.
If they all went, if they all went metric,
but in a sense, um, you know, it's like when a measurement though, when, when you put, uh, you know, one point four three two inches, when you're milling something, uh  you simply set your, uh, equipment,
Yeah.
or, or you or you got your calipers there
and, and you measure, you know,
you mic it to see if it's accurate
and.
Right.
It's it's not a problem either way.
No.
Like I said, my only complaint is where they mixed them on the same car.
Yeah.
And you go to look at it
and you don't know which set to reach in, American or metric.
Yeah.
and, and, you're never quite sure,
well, is that a metric bolt.
You get you a pair of metric pliers, right
Right,
right.
And you beat on it
and a metric hammer
It, it can be annoying
and my other concern is, is the American government going to force us to go.
Oh, I think, I don't think so.
I, I think that, uh, I think they've now just taken the attitude that, well, if it happens, if it,
because it, there a lot of things that, that, uh, um, like sports, you know.
It's a hundred meter.
Oh, absolutely.
And, uh, uh, but automobile races
if it,
I don't think they'd ever,
it's still going to be the Indianapolis Five Hundred.
They're not going to ...
Yeah,
Yeah.
They're not going to change that to meters.
It will always be.
Yeah.
And, and it, I, I don't think it, I don't, you know, I don't think, I don't think it's particularly bothersome because in reality, uh,
you, it's like troy ounces in ounces of gold.
How many ounces of gold, you know.
Twelve.
I was trying, I was trying to figure up gold content on something.
It had, has, uh, gold plated, uh, header.
And, and they're trying to think of what's a Troy ounce.
Yeah.
There's twelve troy ounces to the pound.
Yeah.
Now that makes, you know.
Yeah.
And, and is that going to change too?
Well, I mean, and, and then there's a metric ton
and then there's a ton.
But what's a metric ton?
Uh,
I don't know.
I don't remember.
I, I read it.
And are we still going to maintain drams for perfume?
Yeah.
And, and then, but then the medicine.
And, and some of these other things
and, and the chemistry in those kinds of areas,
milliliter.
It's all metric all ready.
Yeah.
And, and so, um, but, but when you go to order a drink, um, you know. say, they, they, I don't know, it's uh ...
And what will a shot be?
Will a shot be an ounce?
I don't know.
And, and, but, you know, when you go to the store and, and you're trying to figure, you know, well this box is, is, uh, is, is twelve ounces
and, and this one's, uh, uh, three pounds, um,
and you ...
And the other one's two point one kis,
and, and you're, you're lost.
That's right.
And, and I don't know.
I, I think that, I, I think, I think the Federal government is going to, more or less, leave it alone.
I think they've got, I think there are more pressing problems.
Oh, yeah.
The economy.
Yes.
Uh, what I was thinking about is an economical issue concerning it. Uh,
a machinist has a huge number of dollars invested in tooling.
Personal tools to be able to do his job.
Yeah.
But, but are, are the tools that, uh,
if you're cutting,
are you talking about cutting equipment or tools for for set up?
Uh, tools for set up and for measurement.
Uh, you got to have a one tenth indicator,
it's a hundred dollars. Uh,
five tenths uh, usually two one tenth indicators at a hundred dollars each. Uh,
Huh.
five tenths indicator at about a hundred dollars.
You got to have, uh, six inch set of calipers at anywhere from sixty to a hundred twenty dollars.
You got to have a zero to one for sixty dollars. Uh,
one to two inch micrometer for sixty dollars.
A two to three for eighty dollars.
A three to four for eighty dollars.
So you've got thousands of dollars or so.
I mean you get a thousand dollars worth of tools.
Real fast.
Yes.
Real, real fast.
Edge finders and ...
But I was thinking about though that, that when you actually get to the milling equipment though, when it starts turning ...
Well, I know,
because, okay.
Your end mills will be measured in inches or fractions of inches.
Yeah.
You know.
But you, when you, when you simply drilling a hole, I mean, a real simple thing, like gee,
I need a hole there.
What size hole?
Yeah.
As in metric size hole or a, or an American sized hole?
Yeah.
And, and what, but the thing is then you've got to with screws
and that's the other issue. Uh,
the pitch and ...
Yeah,
yeah.
Well and thread,
Uh, I don't go to the movies a whole lot,
but, uh, I went two or three weeks ago for the first time in a long time and saw DANCES WITH WOLVES, which turned out to be an extremely good movie.
I haven't seen that yet.
I, I, I hear,
we, a whole bunch of us were going to go see it.
It's playing at school actually in about two weeks, I guess.
So we're going to go see that.
But you enjoyed that?
Yeah,
it's, it's something that, uh,
my brother lives over in Fort Worth,
and I was telling him about a couple of weeks ago,
and he said, Well I'll wait until it comes out on, uh, tape and rent, rent the video.
And I said, no,
this is not one that you want to do that with.
That's what I heard,
yeah.
It's, uh, the scenery and the landscape and the country that they're in needs a big screen.
It's just beautiful country with the hills and the trees and the buffalo and the whole thing,
it's just, uh, just amazing, amazing picture.
Yeah,
I've heard it, it, it's not one for the videos.
No,
it's one I think,
but, you know, every now and then you find one that you say, yeah,
this is my favorite movie.
Well, this is the one for me this time.
Really.
Yeah.
What have you been to lately?
Um, let's see.
Well, uh, this is almost, sort of funny.
I was just um,
friend and I went to see OUT FOR JUSTICE which is Steven Segal, because, uh, we're both big karate fans.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
So we wanted to see what this is like.
And, uh, impressed with actually.
Is that right?
Yeah,
I wasn't, I mean, I've seen his other movies,
and I just think he's pretty good.
Yeah.
But, uh, this movie,
I'm convinced now he can act.
Uh-huh.
How's his karate?
Oh, his, his, his karate is pretty good.
I think in this one it wasn't so good.
I generally, um,
movies like that scare me, though.
I'd be just fine without them, because, you know, kids come running out wanting to beat each other up.
Well, well they do,
they get
Fighting.
I remember when we used to go to see, well I remember when GRAND PRIX came out when I was a kid, and some other movies like that.
We wanted to jump in the cars and race.
Right.
And I suspect today what they see is bound to be what they want to do when they get out of it.
Yeah,
yeah,
well, that, that was number one for the week actually, too,
so, so it was a little bit, uh,
I was thinking, Wow,
people must be into crime movies again.
But, but in the middle of that conversation we sort or picked an, um, an interesting point.
Last year's number one movie for the year was GHOSTS.
Is that right?
I don't know if you saw GHOSTS or not.
I did see GHOSTS.
Yeah,
and, and, and that was, that, that helped us sort of feel good about, you know, about ourselves and about one around us, in that at least, at least, if everyone's running around seeing karate movies and stuff like that, at least they're still going to see the real good movies, you know.
Yeah.
I think that GHOSTS was one of those that a lot of people didn't think was going to be any good.
Yeah.
And it turned out to be an excellent movie.
Yeah.
It was, it, I was absolutely enthralled by it.
I've forgotten the guy's name who was in it, who had the lead role.
Oh, Patrick Swayze?
Yeah,
and I especially like him.
Yeah,
he's very good.
He's a really good guy.
Other than that, DANCES WITH WOLVES seems like to be the only thing I've seen in the past several months to have any,
Really,
I'm trying to think what else I've seen recently.
What else have we seen recently.
Oh, you know, what's pretty cute actually. Um,
DEFENDING YOUR LIFE.
Is that right.
Have you heard of it?
I've, I've seen the ads for it,
but I'm not real sure what it's about.
Yeah, um,
I actually hadn't heard anything about it,
and some friends called up and said do you want to go see this movie,
and, and they said it starred, um, Meryl Streep and Mel Brooks,
at first they told me.
Yeah.
And I thought, what a strange combination,
Mel Brooks and Meryl Streep.
That is a strange combination.
Well, actually, it starred, that, that it's actually Albert Brooks,
so it's lot better.
Mel Brooks you probably know.
Yeah.
I know,
so it, it was a strange combination.
But it turned out to be a very cute movie.
I mean, the whole premise is that they go out
and, and they die
Oh, yeah.
and they have to,
Both of them.
Right.
Both of them are dead,
and they happen to meet in this, this town, um, this, this sort of city where you're set up.
You know, they go
and they decide if you can move up to the next level.
Oh.
I don't know if you've ever read Jonathan Livingston Seagull,
but it's something like that.
Yeah,
years ago.
They sort of move up to levels,
and, and they have to decide whether or not they're good enough,
and as it turns out, you know, they meet there and fall in love and stuff like that.
Oh.
So you can guess the rest of the plot.
It actually, it's, it's really funny because they run through, you know, what they have them do is sit down and see scenes of their lives.
Oh, yeah.
And then defend it.
And that's pretty good actually.
Well, I guess that's where the title comes from then.
Yeah.
And it's
you actually have to go up there
and you have a, they have an attorney for, you know, attorney for you and attorney,
a defense and a prosecution,
and you know, the prosecutor's job is to make sure you don't move up a level,
and the defense's job is to make sure that you, you do, you know.
It's, uh, it's a neat little story actually.
Yeah,
it is.
I was, I was, I went thinking it'll be okay, not great,
and then I actually came away thinking it was really pretty good.
So,
It's funny,
we've got a couple of movies out recently, GHOSTS and DEFENDING YOUR LIFE, that have to do with, uh, after life, I guess.
Yeah.
And it kind of makes you wonder,
I'm also, besides working at T I, I'm a graduate student at North Texas and working on master's in communication.
It's the behavioral science part of communication,
and I think about these things and people trying to define their own world view,
and, uh what exactly do we, you know, do we see about this world,
Um.
or why are we so fascinated with the other world.
Is it supposed to be better?
The other world,
yeah.
Sometimes I think we think it is.
We like those things that way.
Um, I'm, I'm sure that it seems like,
it certainly would, would explain the preoccupation with ,
but I suspect it's always been a preoccupation with that sort of things.
Well, it has.
All the way through history, there's, I guess,
if you want to call its mysticism or the occult or whatever. It's always fascinated.
I guess because we don't know,
and there's no real way of finding out.
Right,
well.
There's only one way of finding it.
Well did you ever see, um, FLATLINERS.
No,
I did, uh, did not.
The girl next to me saw it,
and she really liked it.
That's, that's, that's probably one of those ones that, you know,
it's on video now, I think.
Yeah,
it is.
Probably, probably worth seeing on video.
Actually we really enjoyed it,
but it was also right along the same lines.
I mean they, they would go ahead and kill themselves for three or four minutes to see what happens.
Yeah.
Yeah,
they said, she said that this was almost believable
that could really happen.
You know, you get the medical profession doing these kinds of things,
and you never know.
Almost,
yeah,
I, I, it's a little far fetched to, find a bunch of medical students doing it,
but but, it was, um, it was, it was odd enough, you know,
Yeah.
and they didn't just sort of make it silly.
It was, you know, it was done fairly well, I think.
So. Actually, I actually enjoyed that as well.
Yeah.
I like it when they will do something and not get too silly.
I've been disappointed in some movies that, they don't know how to end it, it seems like,
so then they get crazy
and, and it doesn't end like the story has been going.
The story sort of keeps going and going.
Well I guess that covers our topic.
Yeah,
great.
Well, it was, nice talking to you.
Nice talking to you.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
That sounded like one.
Uh-huh.
Um, I think that there is something definitely wrong with our school system just because of the results that you see coming out of the school system, as far as, uh, people dropping out of school, uh, grades on test scores being low, uh, more and more people taking G E D trying to get out of high school instead of just going through high school.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
You know something must be wrong as far as, uh, not just the teaching techniques but just motivation, within, within the schools themselves.
Yeah.
Yeah,
excuse me just a minute, uh,
Uh-huh.
I'm on the other line Karen.
I'm sorry.
Oh, it's okay.
Okay.
Uh, she, uh,
yeah,
well the, the results,
I, I hear what you're, you're saying about the results.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, it's, what to do about it I guess is the, the big thing.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm in a kind of an interesting situation in that my, my wife teaches school here in Plano.
Uh-huh.
And, I know that, uh, the results that they get out of the system sometime is, is certainly not you know, up to what the effort they put into it, you know,
I've seen that for years,
yeah.
Right,
and, I know, uh,
I work around, you know a lot of teachers
and I I understand how, uh, supportive they are of their students and how excited they are,
Uh-huh.
but some how, I don't think the students are getting excited.
Yeah,
I've often wondered if it doesn't come back to the, the home environment.
Oh, yes
definitely,
uh-huh
And, uh, it, if, uh, no matter what they do in the, the classroom, if they go home at night and, you know, it's all totally undone, uh.
Uh-huh.
The, the thing that, uh, uh, that Karen, my wife, has, has run into so often is that you run into a group of kids that are going to succeed no matter what, no matter how bad their teachers are, no matter what a lousy system they're in, or anything else,
Right,
right.
Uh-huh.
these people somehow manage to, uh, you know, push on through and are successful.
Progress,
uh-huh.
It's, uh, unfortunately probably what, maybe twenty-five or thirty percent of them do that.
Yeah,
not, not even that much probably.
Well, that would be, be at the absolute most.
Yeah
uh-huh.
And, uh, you know, those, those that, you know, come out, you know, fall out of the system, that are, are real trouble,
Uh-huh.
I, I wonder whether that's just a, uh, uh, a part of the system, you know,
Uh-huh.
if, you know, in a democracy where, you know, people have kind of, uh, a freedom to sort of do what they want, you know, there, there's an inefficiency there,
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and you've got to let those, you know, those,
And speaking, speaking of doing what you want, uh, just in society today being that it's nineteen ninety-one, um, a lot of teenagers and young people have a lot more freedom as far as what they do, as far as, you know, even, even something as simple as staying up late, um, watching television late, um, going out late, start dating,
Uh-huh.
Oh, oh yeah.
Uh-huh.
you start dating too early, you know,
Uh-huh.
just little things like that, that do start in the home,
Yeah.
that can, that plays a big part because you spend eight hours of your day, or more in school
and so any other part of your life, that's going to definitely affect your school life, because you spend so much time there.
Yeah.
And sometimes in some systems they make everything so competitive, you know,
Uh-huh.
you, from the minute that you walk in until, until you leave, your, your competing against somebody else
or your competing against, uh, a system or, or something, you know,
Right.
and then, a lot of
there is a personality type I believe that is really noncompetitive.
They're cooperative rather than competitive,
Uh-huh.
and when they get into a real competitive system they just say, oh well, what the heck, and, uh, tend not to, you know, do too awful well .
Uh-huh.
Right,
I talked to, a guy the other day
and he is now in, in a program that's trying to get him out of high school because he, he fell back several years ago
and he's going to, he, he will have gone to school five years.
Yeah.
Um, and the reason that he was doing so badly a couple of years ago was because his mother died,
Uh-huh.
and he was having to, uh, support his entire family, take care of his brothers and sisters, you know,
Uh-huh.
and all that had an adverse affect on his school life.
I would think so,
yeah.
And, yeah,
and that, and that's a perfect example of how your home life, you know, plays a definite part.
And, you know, any other aspect of your life,
Yeah,
yeah.
an, but now, now, that he's in this program and, you know, he's, I guess okay,
he's, he's making straight A
and, you know, it just, it, it was there, it was just, I guess school was not a number one priority for him at that time.
Yeah,
it, uh,
right,
survival becomes more of a priority than, than education,
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
and unfortunately, you know, there's, uh, there's and old joke about, uh, you know,
education's wasted on the youth anyway.
You don't, you don't really appreciate it until you're much older anyway.
Right,
exactly.
I know when I went to school, uh, my attitude was kind of one of, you know, these people are, you know, taking a tremendous amount of my time, you know,
Uh-huh.
and I've got better things to be doing than sitting here listening to this stuff over and over again.
exactly.
I guess today that would be, uh, some how or other there would be a program of some sort that would take care of that sort of thing,
but.
Um.
The, uh, the cure, some of the cures that I've heard for this that, that sort of make sense,
Uh-huh.
uh, most teachers after they have taught for a very long, especially at the, the lower grades can spot a problem almost immediately.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, it's kind of these intervention programs.
Now, a lot of people will get to looking at these and say hey that's socialism
and that's communism,
Right.
and that's, you know,
and then it gets political.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, boy.
When people start talking about programs that help, for me, I don't care if it's socialist,
or I don't care, as long as it's something that's going to do some good or that looks like it could be beneficial,
Uh-huh,
yeah.
I mean, that's the point I'm at now.
I mean that's the point we all should be at, is like finding some solution,
Um, yeah.
I mean, you know, nothing totally radical,
but if it's something that, you know, might help, you know,
because there's not a lot being done.
Well, you know, the, the radical programs in some cases are just totally unacceptable.
There are kids, families, that should just simply be taken out of the homes, you know. And, uh, uh, you know, uh, just removed from those situations,
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Right.
or they're never going to get anywhere.
But yet, politically that is not a very popular view.
Uh-huh.
I'm sure that if you, you know, ran on a platform of, you know, we're going to find the kids that are having trouble at home and we're going to take them out of the home.
Take them out.
Yeah,
you know how far you're going to get with that.
Yeah,
not very far at all.
Uh, but unfortunately it's, it's something like that, in lieu of that, you know, is the intervention programs in school where the, these kids are, are spotted fairly early on,
Uh-huh.
and, uh, you know, there's, well that's get to be a problem in Texas, you know, because different school systems have got more or less money to take care of that sort of thing,
I mean it's, it's almost like,
Right,
right.
you got counselors and all that.
But you know, you can counsel a kid eight hours a day
and then he goes home
and, and, uh, you know, in the, in worst cases he's got parents either on drugs or, or something like that,
Right.
or they don't care.
You know, mamma, guess what I did in school today,
well who cares, you know.
An a lot of it, a lot of the parents now are so young.
True.
You know, that they're, they still, they still don't know what's going on
and how are they supposed to, you know, teach their kids that are coming up, you know, what's going on.
I mean it's just, it's a vicious cycle, that we're, you know, dead, smack dead in the center of
Yeah.
and we have to try to swim out.
You know, kind of like the Bermuda Triangle,
we're just sinking
and it's almost impossible to swim back up.
Yeah.
But, um, yeah,
there's definitely problems,
Yeah
I'm,
its just the solutions that, you know, they're going to be in our political system,
they're going to be on everyone's mind for quite a while, too long.
I don't know if you've ever had too much to do with, uh, oh, especially Asian, Japanese families coming,
here in Plano we've got, uh, quite a few.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Uh, engineering types, people who have come from Japan,
Right.
and they put their kids in the U S schools
and they're appalled.
Uh-huh.
You know, not so much at what the schools are teaching, but what they let the kids get away with.
Um, uh-huh.
You know, they, they see most, uh,
they're, they're quite upset about the, uh, the disruptive influence of school.
Most of them would say, you know, those people should be removed from the school system.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
And in Japan they would be, you know.
Right.
But, uh, here again, you get back into a political thing, where, uh,
Yeah
there's, there's,
right.
There's definitely too much leeway as far as,
Uh-huh.
I mean, I've only been out of, I've been out of college only two years,
Uh-huh.
and you were saying that you don't appreciate education until you get out
and I, I already, you know, I really didn't, I really don't see myself going back to school or anything,
but, I appreciate more what I had.
Uh-huh.
And I had all these classes and all this knowledge and this big library across the street from my dorm,
Yeah,
were you at Baylor?
and I just didn't take as much advantage of it as I should have.
Yeah,
did you go to Baylor?
No,
I went to U T at Austin,
uh-huh.
Oh, oh, okay.
I'm, uh,
So, I mean all kinds of resources and, you know, just there,
Yeah.
and I'd give anything to have that right now in my, in my regular
I mean you, you have everything given to you.
I don't see why people wouldn't want that.
I don't know,
I,
but then, if I was young, I wouldn't see it.
Uh-huh,
well that's, that's it
you, you don't have, uh,  you don't have the view.
But you know, now that it's gone, I,
Right.
I graduated from Texas Tech, more than two years ago, I guarantee,
Uh-huh.
and, you know, I kind of look back at it sometimes,
well that was a lot of fun,
but, you know, I'm not sure that, that I took the greatest advantage of, you know, what, I went through there.
Uh-huh.
Right,
yeah,
I did a lot
and I experienced a lot
and I, I feel like I got a good college education
but just when I got out I feel like I should have spent more time in the library,
I should have taken those continuing educations classes or whatever they were, you know,
Uh-huh.
the informal classes that you don't get credit for, you know ...
All right,
I guess our, we're in the process of a home repair right at this point
because we're, we're painting the outside of our house.
I don't know,
I guess you would consider that a home repair.
Huh-uh.
Certainly, uh, uh,
and interesting enough, this time we're changing the color which makes it an addition.
What is your most recent,
We just did that, too.
You did that recently too, uh,?
Yes.
Does it make a big difference?
Oh, yes
we have brick on the outside
and, uh, the colors that were there changed the, and the colors that we painted changed the entire look of the house.
Huh-uh.
Completely.
That's neat isn't it.
Yeah.
That was really exciting.
It was fun.
I was really, really tired of the color.
That it's, it's helping.
We're not quite through,
but it's, it really is looking good.
Uh, we went through a process of, of, uh, home repairs on a, on a rental house we had,
probably the most extensive and, uh, the interesting part of it was how much we learned about what we could do.
Um, we didn't have very much money
and so we had to do it ourselves in kind of a slow process,
but we learned how to do, uh, retile bathtubs and, uh, oh, just all kinds of things that are unusual.
Huh-uh.
So the other thing that we did was the roof of our house.
Huh-uh.
And, uh, we did that a different color also.
Yeah.
Of course, uh, being a woman most of these things were done by the men.
Huh-uh.
And, uh, so I wasn't directly involved
but, uh, they really were helpful, I know, to our house.
It's nice to not have a drip through from the roof, isn't it
Yeah
Yes
That's awful.
Um, Howard and I were talking about home repair the other night and, uh, in connection with scouting.
We've got a scout coming up
and, uh, uh, I think it's neat for young people to learn how to, uh, take care of their, of a household, you know, like, uh, fixing faucets, dripping faucets,  and putting in panes of glass and stuff like that.
Huh-uh.
As a matter of fact, one thing, I have a young son
and one thing we did, was we had paneling on the inside of our, uh, front of our house, or the hall way of our house, rather,
and we were repainting the, the front room in the hall there,
and we took down that paneling
and he helped me
and, and, uh, he was, it was fun to work with him. And, uh, and, uh, help putty up the holes together and, and do things,  like that.
Huh-uh.
How does the paneling,
it looks lots better than,
do you like it better?
Oh, I like it so much better.
It makes it so much lighter.
Yeah.
You know, it really does.
You know, and people that have been to my house before and then now really have liked,  much better, too.
Huh-uh.
That's nice.
It's been fun.
Nice to have it come out positive and look,  look good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Well, we have a lot that needs be done.
We have, uh, uh, carpeting,
and, and we did have a new, uh, floor put in our kitchen.
And, um, I have my mother living with us
and so she was in a room with a carpet
and, of course, she's quite aged,
she's ninety-three now,
so that meant she had problems now and then
and it was really good to get the carpet out of there and put a linoleum down.
So it was easier to clean and see where the dirt was
and  so that was a really positive, uh, uh,
Huh-uh.
it was fairly expensive though.
I, I was impressed,
I think, that, uh,
we had somebody do it
and it was, it seems to me like it's probably more expensive to put down linoleum almost than it is to put down carpet.
Huh-uh.
Kind of depends on the quality of carpet, I suppose,
Yeah.
but, uh, in the case of the linoleum they have to rip up everything and, and fix the floor
so it's, uh,
I don't know,
what ever,
but they have to put stuff on the floor
and it's, uh, kind of a process.
Well, it sounds like you have some pretty good experiences with, uh, with, uh, uh, home repair.
Huh-uh.
We have.
It's been really fun.
Yeah.
All right.
Happy home repairing.
Okay.
You too
Bye-Bye.
Bye-Bye.
Hi,
what do you do with your credit cards?
Oh
Well, my husband and I have gotten into some, some problems with credit cards.
We don't handle them very well
We, we tend to run them up to the maximum and then ask for more.
Oh, jeez.
They, they're, they're really bad for us.
Um, matter of fact, we've gotten rid of all of our credit cards except for a MasterCard and a Visa,
and we pretty much keep those maxed out.
Oh, I was going to say that, that sounds like, like pretty many.
But I see what you meant,
you had them for each of the individual stores.
Yeah,
we had I had probably twenty credit cards for,
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
I had, I had an American Express, American Express Gold, an Optima, all the different department stores, um, two Visas, two MasterCards
Oh, gee.
I mean, I had,
any time anybody would, you know, send me an application, you know, preapproved or whatever, I went, I took it,
and it really ended up getting us in some real serious trouble.
Oh, sure.
Um, because, see, the more credit cards you have, the more people offer them to you.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
And the more you use them, the more they send them to you.
But each of these had an annual fee also, right.
Exactly.
The American Express was probably the worst, um, because with the Gold card,
I can't remember how much it was because I didn't even have it very long before I gave it up
Uh-huh.
but I know the Green card was like thirty-five, five dollars a year.
Yeah,
forty five.
Right, uh,
I,
Which was a lot,
because I mean, you had to pay it in full every month.
Exactly, you know,
I, that's it,
I really resented the fact that they were charging me for cards,
so I sent back all of mine, except the ones that were free.
Uh-huh.
And, um, then, then I also limited it to one of each, one MasterCard and one Visa,
and here, most of the stores will accept those,
and actually I then got a Discover card since they pay you back.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
I had a Discover,
and that was one of the ones in the group that I ended up, um, closing.
Um, it really wasn't my choice, though.
I mean, I ended up having, I ended up actually losing my credit cards.
Oh.
Um, I ended up going through a credit counseling service um, because my husband and I just don't handle credit very well
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
yeah.
and, um, when, when you do that, they automatically, once you start with their service, they close your accounts out.
Oh, I see.
So, I'm still paying on all these accounts,
but my accounts are closed.
Yeah.
So, and I would prefer to keep it that way.
Once we, once we're paid off um, I would prefer just to have one MasterCard and one Visa
Uh-huh.
and that's it.
Yeah,
yeah.
Actually I pay off my cards every month.
Only once in my life have I not paid.
I think that's a really good way to handle it, because that way, if you, if you paid off every month, you never have to worry about, well, how much do I have to pay these guys, you know, this month, you know.
This, you buy what you can afford.
I mean if you handle it just like you would like a check or cash it's a lot easier to keep it in check.
Right.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Well, and also in a sense, they're giving you a loan for a month
so that you know, if I were smarter, I would have that same amount in savings and get the interest, which I don't do,
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
but, but yeah,
the, the thought of adding, you know, X percent to, to the price of what I buy, I just, I can't accept.
Yeah,
and I, and I think at this, at this point in time with the economy the way it is, I think that, um, it's going to get even worse.
Um, I'm, I'm glad that we're starting to pay our debts off, now, um, you know,
we, only we started this last year
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
and we probably still have about another year to go before we're completely out of the hole.
Uh-huh.
But I think this, they way the whole economy is going right now, it's just not good to be in debt.
That's right,
that's right.
Yeah,
yeah,
that, I would, that would be a very scary feeling for me to know that I was, you know, juggling payments to different people I guess because I never experienced it.
Uh-huh.
And it's not, because you know, I'm rich or anything,
it's just, a mental concept that I have. Yeah,
Yeah.
that I just.
Well, when you, when you're getting rid of the whole credit card cycle, and if you really get into the mind set, I got really good at juggling money and basically robbing Peter to pay Paul,
and it was scary, because I was so good at it.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
And I thought, this is not right.
I mean, this has got to stop, because eventually it'd end up catching up at, catching up with me
and it hit me in the face.
Right,
right.
Um.
But it sounds like, you know, you, you learned from it
and you're coming out of it all right.
I, yeah,
I have,
I've learned a lot from it.
Uh-huh.
I've learned that credit cards are extremely dangerous in my hand and my husband's too, because he's, he's the same way I am.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I don't, I don't think that,
well, when we buy on credit we just don't have a concept of how much money we're spending until the bill comes in.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And then all of a sudden you look at the bill
and you go, Oh my gosh,
I spent this much.
But now, the fact that you still have two cards,
are you, do you use them, more judiciously?
Yeah,
we pretty much use them for emergency type things like transmission fell out on our car
Yeah.
and that paid for a new transmission
Uh-huh.
um, and, and things like that.
Um, and we try not to use them for incidental type things, like, you know, gas and stuff like that.
Purchases.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh
Clothing, sales.
Yeah.
Sales I find are a pain.
Yeah.
I've, I've gotten, I've gotten a lot more away from, from credit cards,
and I pay by check a lot more now.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Well, it sounds good, you know.
Like I said, it sounds like you're, you've really got it under control.
I, I admire you for having, having that mind set for not, not even getting, you know, past the thirty days,
I would, that's ideally the where, where I would like to be.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Yeah,
and like I said, once, once it, it happened I couldn't because my son's tuition came due,
and I guess I had, you know, not really counted on it quite at that point
Uh-huh.
but, um, yeah,
I didn't like it at all.
I was very uncomfortable.
So,
I can imagine.
You know, and, and I mean, it was, I thought a lot,
sixty dollars interest or something for, for just a couple of months,
and I'm going jeez, that's outrageous,
Yeah.
but in, in, you know, retrospect it wasn't all that much,
I mean a lot of people pay a lot more
and and, you know, but still, I mean, I figured I didn't need those items if it cost me sixty dollars more to have them.
Oh, yeah.
Uh-huh.
Think about what you can buy for sixty dollars.
Exactly
Groceries for a week.
Yeah,
yeah.
Yeah.
I, I think about all, all the money that, that we've spent on interest on all of our credit cards,
Uh-huh.
and it's just incredible.
But now did you use to not feel so badly because you could take it off your income tax?
We've never been able to take it off our income tax.
I'm, I'm fairly newly married.
I've only been married less than two years
Uh-huh.
and before that, I never owned a home or anything,
so I never had any deductions.
Right,
right.
So, really, it was always just money thrown away.
Thrown away.
Yeah,
jeez.
And I never really thought about it because,
You were good at it
Yeah,
I was so good at it that it just kind of got stuck in the back of my mind and just never um, became a real problem until all of a sudden it came an insurmountable problem.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
I suspect that, you know, thinking about it and looking at my friends and the number of credit cards that they use and, you know, the amount that I know they buy, I guess probably a lot of them are in a similar situation, and, you know, just don't talk about it.
Yeah.
Most, most people don't like to talk about money.
They feel uncomfortable, I think.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh,
You know, for a lot of people it is very personal.
very personal.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
and especially if you, if you don't feel you're handling it quite right or that somebody might make fun of you or that it would be,
Yeah.
But I think the, the average American is probably pretty heavily in debt. Not, not including like a mortgage.
A mortgage is an understandable debt because that's, you have, you have to have a roof over your head.
Uh-huh.
Right.
And I would much rather own my own home than, than be renting it like we're doing.
I mean, we're basically, you know, kind of throwing seven hundred dollars a month away.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
We're renting a house.
Uh-huh.
But, you know, right now with the way our credit card situation is, there's nobody in the world that's going to give us a mortgage on a house.
Right,
right.
But, but, once I suppose you, you prove yourself by paying this off next year you'll be in very good shape.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's going to, it's going to take quite a while.
Uh-huh.
Hopefully within five years we'll be in our own home.
Uh-huh.
But, um, I'm not really counting on it real soon.
Okay
You want to get a start?
Certainly.
Uh, the weather here is warm.
Uh-huh.
And it has been sort of raining on and off.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, I am an avid gardener
so I measure the rain in our rain gauge on a, on a regular basis.
So I can, can avoid wasting money on watering.
Oh, great,
great.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, but it has been threatening to rain for the last couple of days,
and it has not, really. Which is a bit of a disappointment.
But it is very warm here, which is typical for this part of the, time of the year.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
How about
I think you are, I think you are earlier than we are, as a rule, aren't you?
Your, your, your growing Summer starts a lot earlier than ours.
It starts in, uh, March as a rule.
Uh-huh.
See that is quite a bit,
we are just beginning.
People are, have got their gardens in, a lot of them now.
We could still have a frost.
Really,
this late?
Uh-huh.
Could you have snow?
Uh, probably not.
But we have had, we have had a frost as late as, as in June.
Oh, well, we do not have that problem
Early June.
So, but we have also had nice weather. An unusually, uh, nice Spring.
It is almost like an early Summer for us.
Oh, that is nice.
Uh-huh.
We could use a little more rain, I believe.
Uh, well, we will be glad, I will be glad to give you some of ours
Uh
Usually we get it in, in great quantities in April and May.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And then it stops for three months.
Yeah.
If it could just be spread out a little bit.
Right.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Yeah.
It has really been nice here, uh,
we are supposed to have some rain this weekend,
but I don't know if we'll get it or not.
A lot of times in our area the weather forecast has missed us.
The, the weather they forecast for our area seems to go right past us and misses us. Just by, well not too many miles.
Uh-huh.
Are you in an agricultural area?
Yes,
uh-huh.
We have,
Well, I know the I know the weather is very important for people who make their living off of, off of the land.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Yeah.
We have quite a few farmers.
We, we live out in the country.
We are on a farm,
but we are not a farming person
Uh-huh.
Uh, we have a garden.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, but we are not farmers.
Huh.
Well, you know there are some disadvantages to being down south.
Uh-huh.
And that is, it gets so hot that, you know, a lot of things die during the Summer from the heat.
Oh, yeah.
They get burnt off.
They, they really do,
Uh-huh.
and you have to be very careful to make sure you keep everything watered.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Well, and that makes it bad too, because, uh, when more, with water being at a premium.
I know our aunt in California,
they, they have really been rationed on their water.
And it makes it real hard to have a yard or, uh, or anything like that, a their garden, their farms.
Their farmers, I guess, are hurting because of that also.
Yeah.
Well, my parents are now in San Diego,
and, and they've got pebbles in their yard because they can't, almost nobody there has, has lawns.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, they are not allowed to water,
so what do you do?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, it is very, it is very rough on them
so,
Uh-huh.
Actually I think, I think it is pretty moderate here in Dallas.
Because the, the Summers are extremely hot.
Uh-huh.
But your humidity is different though than ours I think,
and it makes a, a bit of a difference, too.
Um, what is your humidity like?
Oh, I don't know.
I think our humidity is higher normally than what it is in Texas.
I could be wrong.
Uh, I do not know what, what it is percentage wise
but I,
I do not know for sure either.
But it always seems well, it just felt different like when we were in Texas.
It had a different feel to it.
Yeah.
It is, it is drier in Dallas than it is in Houston or San Antonio or even Austin, which is further south.
Uh.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
But it is not dry.
And, and I have lived here for many years,
and I think it has gotten more humid over the years.
Where the water is coming from, I don't know.
Uh-huh.
Well, it could be.
I know my brother's home has been flooded a couple of times, uh,
Oh, does he live near the lake?
Well, there is a lake not far
but it is more run off from surrounding, you know, areas and that.
Uh-huh.
Uh.
And, uh, he is just in an area where it is just low enough that it's, you know, it, it collects there.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, he has had a couple of inches in his house several times.
That is, that is a problem, uh,
they tell you when you are looking for a house or, or, or buying land to build on, to be very careful and check the drainage because, uh, it is, it is deceptive.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Because of that.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, I know exactly what you mean.
We are fortunate or, uh, we are on a, where we are we get flooded, it floods below us behind us.
Uh-huh.
But we are, uh, we are high enough that our house itself we never, you know, have had any problem like that.
Oh, well, that is fortunate.
Yeah.
It is an old farm house
and, uh, we really like it here.
Uh-huh.
Well, I, I like it, I like it here.
Uh, I, I grew up here.
I have lived other places
and, and, but I, I did grow up here
Uh-huh.
and this is very much home for me.
Uh-huh.
And,
It is nice down there.
I, I, I liked it when we visited there.
I hope you visited during the winter.
Uh-huh.
One of my, one of my theories is that you always go to warm places during the winter
and you go to cold, cool places, that, well, I go to cool places during the Summer if I can anyway.
Right.
Right.
That is the best time to go.
Yeah.
and usually it has been when we have gone, it has been nice.
It has been hot,
but it is, it is hot to me in the wintertime down there.
Oh, sure.
I mean
You know
But it is nice,
it is a, it is really a nice area.
I, I had a friend from England visit once at Christmas,
and we could not get her out of the what she called the English back garden. Because she wanted to go back with a sunburn.
Oh, really?
Oh.
And she went back to the north of England with a sunburn
Oh, good heavens
Not me
I avoid the sun
Well, yeah,
basically I do, too.
Yeah,
it takes me about four and a half hours to do, to mow our grass.
And I try to cover up when I do the lawn
Well, I, that, that is really healthier, frankly.
Yeah,
well, I have had a little, a couple of problems
and, uh, I decided it is not worth it.
Uh-huh.
That,
I, I like to get tan in the Summer time because I think you look healthier.
And, uh, we are just crazy
But you, you know, it is interesting because you get out in that sun an awful lot.
Now my sister is a, a sun fiend.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, she is five years younger than me,
she is more wrinkled.
Is that right?
Yeah,
It, it just makes your skin more leathery.
and I think that is why.
It, uh, it,
Exactly.
yeah.
So,
I think it burns off the,
I don't know the, the, the theory, the scientific principle.
But it burns something off, the natural oils or something like that.
Uh-huh.
Well, the elasticity of your skin, the collagen or whatever they call it.
They say it destroys a lot of that.
Yes.
And you lose a lot of that.
So, uh,
Yes,
uh, that sounds like a good, that sounds like the right theory.
Yeah,
but, uh, but we have really had nice,
the weather,
I can't complain.
We have really had really good weather of late.
Good.
And when it has rained, it it's been a good soaking rain
and, uh, it has just been a really nice Spring.
Well, that is great.
It has been, it has been very nice here too.
And I hope it continues because my parents are coming to visit this evening
and I want them to have nice weather for their visit instead of driving around in the rain.
Oh.
Oh, that is great.
How long will they be there?
Uh, probably four or five days.
Uh-huh.
Well, that is great.
Well, I hope the weather stays real good for them. And, and, uh, that you have a good visit and everything.
Well, thank you
Thanks.
And I hope your garden does good.
Yeah.
And the same to you.
And, so. Okay.
Well, it was really nice talking to you.
A pleasure.
And, uh, good luck in your, this venture.
It is, uh, like I said,
it has been real interesting.
So I hope you enjoy it as much as I have been enjoying it
I am sure I will.
In, in fact, if I had not been preparing for this, the out of town visitors, I probably would have been making some phone calls in the last couple of days.
Yeah,
I forget to.
The day goes by,
and I forget to make a call usually.
Well, I am glad you have broken the ice with me because now, I will, I will start doing it
Great,
great.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, thanks, Jean.
Uh. Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Okay,
is, uh, that a sport you like to participate in?
No.
Actually I'm a spectator,
and I'm a second hand spectator as a result of my first husband's, or my late husband's, interest in golf.
Uh-huh.
My husband likes golf also,
he's, uh, I guess he'd be a fanatic if he thought he could get away with it
But he, he limits it pretty good.
I, um, have tried to go out and play golf.
He would love it if I would go out and play with him,
but I stand there and swing and swing,
Uh-huh.
and I can't even hit the ball
I can't even play miniature golf well.
Yeah,
I don't either
Well, there are just some things that we're good at and other things that we're not,
but I am very good at watching it on television.
Right.
And he was really, uh, enthusiastic about keeping up with the tournaments.
He could tell me exactly what day and what time of year and where the tournaments were going to be held, and what the nature of the hole was and,
Oh, so he's really into it.
Oh, yeah,
he was a good golfer.
Wow.
And as, and did some, you know, instructions at the country club for a while.
Oh.
But, uh, golf tended to be
I am not really deeply involved in any, following any of the sports.
Yeah.
But golf was one that I developed a working knowledge of a lot of the golfers,
and therefore I enjoyed following those particular players.
Right,
more because of their personalities than their sportsman
Uh-huh.
Well part of it was the personality and their sportsmanship.
Another part of it was I'd pick one out that was different than what my husband was rooting for
so you know, the competitor,
and I became involved in following his career.
Right
And, uh, I know that, that my husband,
Tom Kite was his fair haired boy.
Oh.
And he thought he was spectacular.
I said, Whoa.
I'm not going to, I'm not going to stay interested in him.
So I decided Andy Bean was good competition
Uh-huh.
Any time they both played, why, he was just real excited when Tom was, you know, shown on the television,
and I followed Andy Bean.
Uh-huh
We both followed Lee Trevino into the Seniors.
Oh, he's interesting.
He is.
I like to watch him.
He is a character not just a golfer,
Yeah.
but he's quite a character.
Yeah.
And there are some really, really wonderful people in the game of golf who do give wonderful role models.
Yeah,
yeah,
I think you're right.
And I think it's critical, it's critical to have a good role model in any field, any sports.
Yeah.
I like to watch those skins games.
Uh-huh.
Do you ever watch those where they just play for a certain you know,
for each hole they win they get the money for it.
Uh-huh.
I think those are pretty exciting.
Well, I myself, really have not seen a whole lot of point to the game of golf.
You hit a little ball,
you chase it,
you go find it,
and then you hit it again and lose it again.
Uh-huh,
yeah.
And I know the whole point is to get it in that little bitty hole,
but seems to me like if they made the hole bigger it'd be easier.
Oh really
I sometimes wonder why men like it so much because they get so frustrated and mad at themselves when they don't do well.
Oh, I know.
Oh, yeah.
My husband and his buddies are not very good.
They play like maybe once a month or less
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
and so they all hit like in the low nineties,
and they think they're having a really good game
Oh, yeah.
So.
Well, my husband's average ran in the mid seventies
Wow.
so he wasn't bad.
Yeah,
that is good.
He was pretty good,
but as far as influencing young people, I think that that is, uh, that is one of the sports that you can carry into old age.
You can't play football at fifty-five.
Right.
But it is a good healthy, wholesome lifestyle, uh,
anything can be warped.
Yeah.
But I think that that is one of the sports that's a good healthy way to, to move into maturity safely.
Uh-huh.
Something to stay active at for a long time.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
That's right,
that's right.
Yeah,
yeah.
And a lot of seniors, a lot of elderly people don't even take up golf until they're, you know, in their later years.
Yeah,
and they can still get good at it.
That's right,
that's absolutely right.
And it's something that,
Well, maybe that's what I'll do when I have time later on,
Yeah,
when you're too old to do anything else go play golf,
Yeah
yeah
But it's, it's also something that husband and wife can participate in
Uh-huh.
or, you can both enjoy the same sport and participate in separate circles.
True.
You know, you can go to the country club together.
You can play with your friends,
he can play with his friends,
but you've both been out and exercised,
and you have enjoyed the day.
Right,
yeah.
Or my favorite,
just ride around in the cart with him
You bet,
you get a lot of exercise that way.
Go somewhere really nice, like Hawaii, and just look at the golf course.
Uh-huh,
well, I'll tell you what, if if they're not real good golfers, sometimes it is not fun to ride around and listen to their exclamations all day long.
Oh, yeah.
But my husband's pretty tolerant,
so he's not too bad to watch.
Uh-huh.
Oh, mine had a very short fuse.
If he did something bad, he's liable to take that club and throw it as far as he can throw it.
Oh, no,
yeah.
He's replaced almost as many clubs as he has balls.
I mean, just get so mad, he'd just wham that club up against a tree and break that rascal.
Gosh.
Now my husband has a temper,
but he doesn't seem to show it on the golf course.
He's, because he'll talk about the other guys he plays with doing that and how immature he thought it was and stuff.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
So I guess he's real laid back about it.
Uh-huh.
He, he'll come home though, and he'll shoot when he was shooting in the hundreds,
and he'll tell me what a great day he had, and about this great shot he made and everything .
Uh-huh,
well I shot in the hundreds,
but I made this one good one
Yeah,
this one, on this one hole
Did you have to listen to long stories about, now on the seventeenth hole I hit it and went this way
Uh-huh.
those are, it's hard for me to, act nice about that when it goes on and on,
Well, one thing that is a, is a drawback about it, I think, is the cost.
Yes.
Membership in the clubs is expensive,
the equipment is very expensive,
requires special shoes,
requires special, you know, special equipment.
There's so many,
Right,
and then they want to play another course that's not, they're not a member of
That's right.
and other fees.
That's right,
that's right.
It really is high.
It can get very expensive,
and I can imagine what kind of costs are involved if you're going to try to go pro, because you spend hours and hours and hours practicing.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And they don't give those sessions away.
And nor do they give, uh, instructions away.
Right.
As a matter of fact a friend of mine asked me if I thought I'd be interested in golf.
I said I don't know,
I'll have to try it and see.
I've always watched it.
Uh-huh.
And he said, well, fine,
he said, we'll just take you over to the course, he lives near Brookhaven we'll just take you over to the course and get you some lessons and let you see if you like it.
Uh-huh
If you do, then we can go golf together.
Uh-huh.
Oh, whoa,
great,
I get to walk all around a little green field all day.
But those kinds of things happen, though,
you, you get a little taste of it
and you say, Hey, this is not bad.
Uh-huh.
And you really begin to develop an interest in it.
But I am not an athlete at all.
Me either.
You know, I'm always the one that got hit by the bat in baseball, and, hung my fingernails in the net in volleyball.
So I am not an athlete.
Maybe golf is a forgiving sport.
I don't know.
Yeah
at least you're just you're competing against yourself, I guess, more than everybody else out there.
It doesn't appear to be
Uh-huh.
I really, I, I haven't really acquired an interest in it,
but I'm open to try anything, you know.
Yeah
that's, kind of the way I feel.
The one thing that is also detrimental as far I'm concerned, my skin is very fair
Oh.
so I'm going to have to golf in the evening
or I'm going to have to golf at a time when the heat of the day does not cook me.
Right.
And I don't think the,
Okay,
have you participated in anything like that?
Well a little bit,
we mostly do our newspapers.
We keep our newspapers, and stuff like that and we keep our newspapers and stuff like that
and we take them to be recycled.
Uh-huh,
uh, we, we have a pretty nice recycling center, uh, in our city now
and we take the newspapers and plastic and glass up there.
They're open like two days a week
and you can just take it up there and drop it off.
Uh-huh.
It's kind of fun.
And everybody up there looks pleased with themselves when they're taking their stuff in like they're doing something good to, help the earth, I guess.
Yeah.
And a lot of people complain because it's really not convenient for them.
Yeah.
Yeah
my husband was complaining the other day
because he said every time I turn around you're telling me some new rule about recycling
like yesterday I was tell him, you have to, you're supposed to squeeze the plastic jugs before you take them up there.
You're supposed to what.
Every time he turns around I'm giving him some new rule, where you're supposed to squish up the, you know, like collapse the plastic jugs. Instead of taking them up there solid.
But what are you supposed to do with them.
Oh, okay.
And I wish that our recycling center took paper bags.
They won't take those.
We like to put our, just put our newspapers in a paper bag, you know, and then carry them up there that way.
Uh-huh.
And we have to bring the paper bags back every time. Because they won't take them.
Yeah.
Do you, uh, take your papers somewhere
or does someone pick them up?
We, we usually collect a, you know, collect a quite a bit
and then we take them, take them in.
Uh-huh.
We, um, we don't take our cans up to that center, though,
our aluminum cans, we like to take them to one of the places where they pay you for them.
Yeah,
we don't, we don't, um, use aluminum cans,
Uh-huh.
so, we generally don't have those to do.
Yeah,
it takes us about a year to save up enough to be worth, you know, worth bothering to go in and do,
but. Do you, um, have any ideas on anything that would make,
You know, they, they charge you, you know,
it's like a flat rate I think for picking up your garbage.
Uh-huh.
And I know a lot of people it would, would solve the convenience problem if they had curbside pickup
and some communities are trying to do that now.
And I think that maybe if they only charged for the garbage that you did not sort and have set up for recycling,
Right.
they, they charged you by, by weight of how much trash you were actually sending to a land fill.
Yeah
that would be a good idea.
That that might be a better way to do it.
Yeah.
And then people would, would know that it was going to cost them money to not sort their trash.
Right.
Yeah,
that would be a real good motivation for people.
You know, because then it would, then it would make monetary sense to them, you know, to say, hey, you know, if I just spend the time to, to sort this out where this stuff can be recycled then I don't have to pay for them hauling it off.
Right.
Yeah,
my father was telling me about some program he read about where you buy your bags, like you buy your garbage bag from the city,
Uh-huh.
and you pay more than just what you would pay for an empty garbage bag
but then you don't pay any monthly fee or anything,
so how ever many bags of garbage you throw away, that's how many you have to pay for.
Oh, yeah
that's about the same kind of thing.
Yeah.
Yeah
that would be a real good idea.
I'm trying to think if there's anything else I could think of.
They are talking about going to curbside pickup in our, in our city .
Where do you live?
Rowlett, Texas.
Oh, okay.
Do you know where that is?
Yes.
And I don't know if they decided to do, or not,
but I think they said it was going to add like either a dollar or three dollars a month to your bill to have them do that.
Although, I think a lot of those programs can operate at about a break even, break even point,  without charging people.
It seems like they would be able to.
Yeah
I don't know, uh,
I guess it just depends on how they manage it.
Uh-huh.
I don't know how much they get when they sell all that stuff.
The center that they've got now where you take your stuff in I, I think that should be making some money. Since they just have to hire someone to man it a few hours a week.
Yeah.
And they sell, I guess they sell everything to some waste company that comes and gets it.
Yeah.
But I wish that, uh, more of the cans, you know, like the cans you buy vegetables and fruit and stuff like that in were recyclable.
I don't,
a lot of that's that recyclable steel
and I don't know anybody that takes that.
Yeah,
that's true .
my husband likes Pepsi
and those cans are steel instead of aluminum,
so we can't, can't ever recycle them.
I think it's a good reason to quit buying it.
Um, now I didn't know that,
cause we just usually if we're going to, uh, buy sodas they're in the, the two liter bottles.
Yeah,
that's what we buy the most of, unless we're going on a trip or something where we want to, put the cans in a cooler
Yeah.
But, well that's all I can really think about for recycling.
Okay.
It was good talking to you.
Okay.
Uh, bye.
All right,
bye-bye. voice said what's that
voice said, where were they
There you go.
What do you think invades your privacy? heavily
Oh, well people that call on the phone all the time to try to sell you something. You know, that, that try to sell you the newspaper, and, uh, carpet cleaning, and, uh, what else, roof repair
And enough,
well I think it's a waste of paper, the people that always leave, uh, junk mail and, because, um, you just end up throwing it away most of the time.
Probably eighty percent of the, the junk mail that you get is, is, um, something that you don't need.
And the same way with those calls.
What is it,
oh M C I, M C I really does.
Even when you tell them no, they keep calling back.
M C I
what's that?
M C I
it's the long distance telephone company.
Oh, now see I, I really don't have much trouble with, I just say no thank you and hang up.
Uh-huh,
well they they won't take a no for an answer here for some reason.
They just keep calling back.
I had a carpet service call up three times, all within in an hour,
Uh-huh.
but, I, uh, I do telemarketing,
Uh-huh.
so, uh, I'm very polite
and I just say no thank you, and say no thank you very politely
and I hang up and, don't bother me after that.
Uh
Yeah.
So I think the only thing that really bothers me is if when somebody contacts me
and they try to get information out of me.
Uh-huh.
Like the Census Bureau, United States Census Bureau.
Oh yeah.
That bothered me.
Uh-huh.
I didn't feel they had a right to know how many bedrooms were in my house even.
Right.
That I think is my invasion privacy because it's the government
and I don't understand what their need to know is.
Uh-huh.
And I think that is my biggest objection to anything as far as invading my privacy. If somebody wants personal information out of me,
but telephone calls I figure, they don't bother me one way or the other.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I know when I do telemarketing, um, I'm a soft person,
if, if someone says I am not interested I'll just say fine and back out.
Uh-huh.
And I make very good sales,
but I'm not, uh, as I said, I'm not half as pushy as these people because, I don't really care.
I mean, if, if they're not interested fine.
You know that's it.
You can't force them to be.
Right.
No.
And I'm not pushing something down their throat that, uh, I don't think is a good item anyway.
Uh-huh.
That I don't think I could do anyway.
But I feel like, oh, movie stars, or
sure, it's part of their, I guess they're portray being a movie star
they get themselves in these rag sheets
but, uh, I think they go too far.
Oh, yeah
I think that's invasion of privacy.
because they follow them around twenty-four hours a day.
Yeah
And you know they do Ted Kennedy.
Oh, yeah.
Of course, he's breaking the law all the time,
so it's a different story then.
You know, but, but Ed McMahon, I mean, you know, who cares about Ed McMahon.
He's probably hasn't done anything interesting in the last thirty years that they've been on the air, you know.
And he has a chauffeur.
and she'd gotten all new underwear,
and I was like, Laura.  How did you get all this stuff?
imitates a woman's "Well, I just got paid."
And, and I was like, oh.
Had some money in her pocket, yeah.
It was there.
It was burning.
It had to be spent.
You know, and I'm like
and she said everything was on sale.
Oh, oh, that's good,
at least it was on sale
That's good honey,
I'm glad you bought it on sale
What else can you say?
That's right.
I do recommend the for savings bit.
They, uh, they take it out or your paycheck before you see it because it doesn't hurt.
Yeah.
I think,
Yeah.
You don't notice it.
I think that's probably a really good idea.
You know, you don't even think about it if it's gone.
Huh-uh.
Yeah,
so, uh, until you really need it
and then you realize, you've got a couple of thousand dollars built up someplace else.
Yeah.
Yeah,
see I was,
when I had, when I was living alone and I had my own house and things, uh, I put one, I was paid twice a month,
one paycheck went into savings
and one went into the checking account that paid the mortgage,  and the food bills
Right.
and it,
and I was even able to, you know, to accumulate some savings in a sense in the checking account, because I'm pretty thrifty
and, you know. But my wife likes to spend.
She enjoys,
so that's fine
But a
for savings , I'll have to look into that.
Yeah.
that's, that's been our godsend, you know.
Huh-uh.
We've had some sort of major emergencies come up, you know, where,
we also own our own house,
Huh-uh.
um, we had an ice storm up here,  recently, where it was I mean, it was horrible.
Yeah.
I mean, half the city owned trees .
One-third of all vegetation in this county is just wiped out.
Oh, really, because of the heavy ice.
Yeah.
It broke the limbs.
Exactly.
Huh-uh.
We had to our backyard tremendous willow tree that just fortunately,
but it cost us, you know, a couple of hundred dollars just to bring the tree down. I mean, just to take off what was broken.
Right.
Plus, we went with a friend,
and they said you know,
and then the whole ice storm cost us quite a bit of money, even though insurance picked up some of it,  still, not all of it.
Yeah.
They don't get, you know,
Huh-uh.
and that,
plus
and then we had a car expense like that same week.
One of the cars died, you know.
All of this adds up
and that for savings really comes in handy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can see that.
I can that,
I keep trying to say to her, Laura don't spend so much.
What happens if something happens to a car, you know.
Right.
Oh, well, nothing will happen.
Oh.
All right,
what type of things would you fix if you're having company come over?
Well, I have a really great one that I make in the summertime because it's cool
and it's, uh, it's just really pretty easy.
It's pretty much dumping things in and stirring.
Uh-huh.
And I like that.
Uh, the only thing you have to do is cook the rice that goes in, in it
and then I, you're supposed to do chicken,
but I just use those little cans of chicken.
Uh-huh.
And it makes it so much easier,
and so you dump the rice,
you dump the chicken
and then you put in fruit like pineapple and mandarin oranges and grape,
now grapes are the ones that you have to pull all that off,
but I get my kids to do that,
so,
Oh
I, I don't have to do that.
And, um, and it really,
and you mix it all up with
there's a little dressing that goes in it that you have to stir up,
but it's so simple
and it tastes really good because it's cool in the summertime.
Oh, yeah.
You serve it cold?
Uh-huh.
Oh, yeah,
that sounds good.
Yeah,
it has to sit in the fridge over night,
but, but it's really good.
Um.
And I like that one.
Yeah.
Usually when we entertain we do something really simple, because I like to visit with my company, and not be scurrying around in the kitchen,
Yeah.
so, a lot of times, we'll barbecue
Exactly.
like, uh, for Memorial Day we had some friends over
and we just bought a brisket and marinated it overnight in one of those like Adolph's meat marinate, and put it on the smoker and cooked it.
Uh-huh.
Oh, that sounds good.
And it was real good.
You can buy a fairly cheap piece of meat that way
and then people think they're eating steak or something
Yeah,
yeah
And these days that helps, doesn't it?
Yeah,
yeah.
Yeah.
It really does.
I know what you mean.
I don't usually I just pass on any recipe that's got more than five or six steps to it because I just know I'll never take the time to do it.
Now spaghetti's such an easy one.
Um, I do that a lot.
Uh-huh.
I do spaghetti a lot.
Yeah,
it seems like most people like spaghetti.
Yeah,
I don't like to do that if it's real hot though.
Yeah.
Because, um, I don't know,
I have a real thing about being hot in the, in the summertime.
Uh-huh.
I guess.
Well I think when you heat your kitchen up it really makes a big difference, in your whole house.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I think that's right.
And, um, we don't entertain that often,
but when we do, I'm like you. I like it to be fast and easy. And something so that we can talk and not and not have to worry about being in the kitchen all the time.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Most,
we don't entertain like people from work or stuff often.
It's usually friends from church and stuff,
Yeah.
and it's usually kind of like, you want to come over, and they say well what can we bring.
Yeah.
And so it's real easy because you just make one or two things
and everybody else brings something.
That's exactly like us, from our church, we just do it,
yeah.
Oh yeah,
yeah.
Uh.
It's a lot more relaxing.
I don't know if I could take the pressure of having to you know, put on this really fancy dinner for someone.
Well you see all that on T V
and I could never be that person.
Huh-uh.
It just, uh, I'm just not,
well I'm so, I'm pretty laid back.
Yeah
And, uh, you know, so I don't, I know a lady in a, my church
and, uh, she like does her own bread and does her own stuff
and so when she, um, does food, she really goes all out
and I don't know how she can do it and be calm
Yeah
I guess,
Do you work?
No,
I don't.
Do you stay home with kids?
Uh-huh,
yeah.
Yeah.
I, I've been working,
we're going to have a baby this summer,
and I'm not going to work anymore.
Oh, how exciting.
Yeah.
So hopefully, I think I'll enjoy cooking more, when I don't have to work all day.
I don't like to come home and stand in the kitchen and spend an hour fixing something and then have to clean it up
and by then it's eight thirty or nine o'clock at night,
so.
Yeah.
Well I usually start about six and, an, and cook and then eat at seven. I mean, cook at five and eat at six, rather.
Yeah.
Eat at six, yeah.
Yeah,
and, uh, my family and I, we're a sit down together family.
Oh, that's good.
Uh, yeah,
I don't like the run in and out part.
Yeah.
And I like to be able to sit down after school and have them talk with me an, and my husband about what's happened
and, I think I, that was ingrained in me during my family time at home.
Yeah,
that's neat.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, you know we could learn to talk about things
and I think that's good.
Yeah,
that really is.
It keeps the family in touch with what's going on with each other.
Yeah.
I think,
Right now we eat in front of the T V
but since it's just the two of us, it's
Yeah,
yeah
Well that happens to us sometimes too.
Yeah.
But, uh, sometimes if something, uh, is on that they want to watch I leave it on,
but we eat in the kitchen
and their heads are always poking past the door.
Uh-huh,
to see what's happening.
Yeah.
Anyway food is, is, uh, a real life-style kind of thing
and some people don't like to do this
but I like to uh, cook with my kids.
Oh, uh-huh.
And if they're going to have other kids over then, then they help.
And we make real simple things, you know, those, oh,
I I don't know if you've ever made them, maybe not since you don't have kids yet, but those Jell-O, uh, gelatin things you can pick up with your fingers, I can't think of what they call it.
Oh, I've seen those in the magazines.
Yeah,
they're so simple.
Uh-huh.
And the kids love to do that.
Uh, finger food is, is a biggie with them.
Yeah.
And, and like, now one thing I wish I could find a, a better way to do are celery sticks and carrot sticks, because they love to do that
and it's just really hard
and if you have to work with a knife, I don't like that.
Yeah.
So, that's, uh,
they like to eat it,
but it's a hard one to have to, to prepare.
Yeah,
But they like that with the, the cool ranch dressing that goes along with that.
Oh yeah,
yeah,
we like that.
Yeah.
That's good that, that's a good way to get kids to eat vegetables too.
Yeah.
My son's getting to be a, a real good cook
so, uh,
Oh, neat.
sometimes he fixes me breakfast
Oh, wow, that's great
Yeah,
I like it,
I like it a lot.
How old is he?
He's eleven.
Eleven,
wow, that's good.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
so
Do you cook like you cook a breakfast every morning
or,
Uh, not every morning, uh,
mostly during the summer it's hit and miss
and, we usually have like, uh, cold cereal or something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, during the during wintertime when they're in school, um, then I try to vary it so that we only eat that like a twice a, twice a week or something and then have like, when it's really cold, I even cook oatmeal, Because I like oatmeal
Uh-huh.
and the they like it all right.
Yeah.
And, um, then sometimes we do something,
it has to be fast because they're on their way to school,
we do like Eggo waffles and stuff like that,
but.
Oh, uh-huh,
yeah.
Yeah,
so, I try to, uh,
and sometimes we do eggs if I get up early enough to do that.
I used to do them in the microwave,
but they don't like that.
Oh, do they get rubbery,
or,
Um.
I've never tried it.
It it depends.
If you let them cook too long then they'll turn a little bit gray.
Uh-huh.
You can tell if they've gone to long because they'll turn a little bit gray
and they will be a little harder,
and I don't like that.
Yeah.
So you have to just let it cook a little bit less than what it says in, if you have a microwave book,
but you cook it a little bit less and then let it sit with a, like a plate over the top.
Oh.
And let it steam.
Uh-huh.
And then, and then stir it up.
Huh.
Yeah,
an, and that turns out okay.
Yeah.
And it's funny 'cause if I turn them out on to a on to like a plate, for them to take what they want, they don't know I've ever done it in a microwave.
Uh-huh.
It's really funny,
it's very deceiving, you know, 'cause if they see it with their eyes they go, uh, I don't like want that, you know,
Yeah
and yet if they don't ever see it, then it's like, oh this tastes okay, you know,
so.
Yeah.
Anyway.
We had,
my grandmother used to do that to us with things like squash.
Everybody would say we don't like squash, we won't eat squash,
so she would make these fancy casseroles and hide it in there, you know,
Yeah
and then we'd go, oh, this is really good.
Okay.
Uh it's not such a bad idea to think about judges, uh, you know, taking the idea of, uh, uh, sentencing into their hands versus, you know, the jury, especially if it's a highly publicized case such as, uh, you've got cases right now that are going on that everybody's very well informed of or have read, uh, certain, uh, things in regards to cases like the Dahlmer case in Milwaukee and stuff.
So it's, it may be an idea to think about, you know, cost.
Trying to find a jury so you can get a jury as far as, uh, they may say they're not biased,
Yeah.
but deep down they are against this person or whatever,
so, uh, I don't think it's such a bad idea to think about.
So,
Right,
that it, that it,
I,
a judge would be more consistent from one case to the next and not not and, and, uh, not depend so much on the, on the emotions of a particular case, but be able to put it in overall perspective.
Exactly.
Uh-huh.
Well I, I certainly haven't thought much about this
Yeah.
but,
Catches you off guard, doesn't it?
Yes,
yes,
some of them, some of them do
and some of them don't,
but, uh, this one, uh,
I was trying to remember back.
It seems to me that, that, you know, when I studied civics in school or stuff, that this, the juries being involved in the sentencing wasn't, wasn't so much.
Uh-huh.
And I'm, I'm trying to figure out whether that's, I'm remembering wrong or whether that's a by state.
I didn't think they were either.
I thought the sentencing was done by the judge.
Yeah.
I mean, it's either guilty or not guilty.
Yeah.
And, uh, I, I guess,
and I don't know whether it's by state or whether there's been some supreme, supreme court decision perhaps that said that, uh, that, uh, as part of the trial by the peers that had to include the sentencing or too, or whatever.
Changes.
Uh-huh.
I,
yeah,
but, I, yeah, I certainly wouldn't be, uh, uh, worried about that.
I guess in terms of the, uh, you know, having a judge do it would seem to me to be more, more fair and and, uh unbiased.
Oh, sure.
Yeah,
yeah.
Uh, in terms of doing away with the, with the unanimous jury, I guess, I guess I, uh, would be a little more leery of that kind of a change in, in the trial system.
That, that's just a, such a tradition that it's a, that it's got to be a unanimous jury that, uh, I don't know where you'd, where you'd draw the line anywhere else. Uh, you know, uh two-thirds or three-fourths or whatever.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, and, and, I, I, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with just a, just a bare majority.
Exactly.
Uh,
Uh-huh,
yeah.
That's kind of how I, you know,
in certain cases I can see them going, uh, uh, just basically with a judge, guilty or not guilty verdict uh, simply from a judge in highly publicized cases versus the small, uh, maybe, you did a crime that was, uh, burglary or whatever
Yeah.
Yeah.
and it goes into the court case or whatever
and it's not highly publicized.
But when you get into these highly publicized cases where everybody knows details whether it's through the NATIONAL ENQUIRER or whatever.
Yeah,
whatever.
Yeah.
Uh, it's the idea that person might initially have this thought, well, jeez this person's guilty no matter what.
I'm not going to listen to the facts or and, and con their way into, uh, getting past the lawyers and getting through that.
Yeah.
But, uh, also there's aspect of cost
and I, I'm not quite sure how much cost it does take for, uh, the judicial system to try and call a jury, whether it's very costly, or if it's something that's not costly or what.
You know, being that I'm not in the, that area I really don't know.
But I wonder if there is some big expense in trying to call a jury to trial and then having to pay whatever they have to pay if there's something that they have to pay.
Yeah.
I know companies have to pay for these people to be off from work. Or at least give them the time off from work.
Yeah.
Uh, whether it's,
I think it's with pay.
If I remember, jury duty is with pay.
Well,
And, and I'm,
I,
I'd,
I know it is, I know it is where I, where I work.
But, I'm not sure that that's, that that's necessarily required. Uh, you know, by law that it has to be paid.
Paid, right.
Uh, I suspect that's a, that's a benefit of a bigger company.
But, but there are certainly some, Some that, some that wouldn't, uh,
Uh-huh.
Some that may decide not to.
yeah,
Well, I don't know if there's going to be solutions to the U S budget.
Well, now it's in pretty disastrous shape for sure.
Uh-huh.
It's only getting worse exponentially it seems.
Yes.
Exactly.
Um,
There's, uh, maybe some short-term things that they can do
and it hurts everybody's pocket, of course,
but, um, I know that state has, uh, cutback, uh, raises for a year to help, uh, the, uh, state financial or whatever you might want to say to get better in a better condition.
Uh-huh.
That,
Oh, which state is that?
Uh, State of Minnesota.
Uh-huh.
So there's the potential that perhaps, you know, the U S budget might want to take a look at it's, uh, federal employees or, and take a look at saying, well, let's freeze wages.
I mean everybody's doing it so it isn't like, uh, private business has had to do it
Uh-huh.
so it might have to be something that they might consider doing as a that's got to be very short term.
Right.
Right.
And the only other avenue that I can think of is, uh, looking at where they're spending the money and not so much as saying, well, we're spending too much in that area as perhaps looking at what is costing them the money.
As for, for instance, I think you probably remember the military getting caught, um, with toilet seats that cost them four hundred, five hundred dollars.
Yep.
Right.
And it was just,
I mean you can go to K-Mart and buy them for, uh, eight dollars or I think six dollars or whatever for toilet seats,
Yeah.
so. So it gives you idea that,
Yeah.
Definitely
I think that there's probably a lot of waste in defense and in government funded research in the first place.
Sure,
sure.
So,
I mean there was, um, people at Stanford who were soaking the government, you know, using millions of dollars of research money to, uh, for the President to buy beach homes or whatever it was.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And I think that, that maybe more widespread than well, than we'd like to have think.
Than we think.
Sure.
Sure.
But, but then it's something that's hard to enforce too I'm sure.
Uh-huh.
It sure is.
The, you know, as far as,
I think there was something with the government official that went on conferences for two days
and actually, uh, the conferences were nothing
but, uh, you know, they're getting paid for this,
and it was something more than just the conferences.
They were using it as eating out, uh,
when you think about people, uh, taking vacations these big government officials taking descendants in congress.
Uh-huh.
The rest of them taking these vacations and using the taxpayers' money for that.
Right.
And it's a real big crunch, uh
Uh-huh.
of course, when they get caught then they're, you know, they're guilty of course,
but, uh, during that time I'm sure there's hundreds of, uh, thousands of people that are, uh, spending money that does not belong to them.
So,
Well, that's right.
Uh, I think that, oh, politicians talk a lot about waste
Uh-huh.
but I'm not sure that that's really that much of the problem.
Sure.
I mean when you look at something like the Gulf War it cost us God knows how much. You know, at a million dollars, a pop for patriot missiles.
Uh-huh.
Exactly.
And I don't think, uh, it's ended up being,
I mean it gave people jobs
Yeah.
but I think it also cost, um, quite a bit as far as because after they're done with the war, a lot of things were no longer put to use.
I mean it was kind of like, okay, we'll do this during this point and time
but after that that's, you know, uh they didn't want to do it anymore.
Right.
Uh-huh.
So, a lot of things that are saying that they're no longer going to be doing for next wars that are coming up that they did for this one in getting rid of a lot of things.
So I don't know.
Uh-huh.
Right.
Okay,
well, it was good talking to you
and have a good evening.
Okay
All right.
You too.
Uh-huh,
thanks.
Bye-bye.
Bye now.
Okay.
What kind of pet do you have, Gail?
Well, I don't.
I have children
Oh, you have children
I have little children.
Both of my kids are under two so right now we don't have pets,
but we've had lots of them in the past.
Have you?
Uh-huh.
Uh, what have you had?
Well, we had a dog before we moved here.
Uh, and we couldn't bring her with us.
We came from Colorado,
and we've had hamsters and fish and birds.
Oh.
Okay,
I've ,
Well, you're going to have lots of pets with your children growing up.
Uh-huh.
Well, we had a, a Schnauzer that we lost this summer,
and he was fourteen years old.
And, uh, we've had two Schnauzers
and before that we had all Dachshunds,
and I think my husband wants another Dachshund,
and we're trying to debate because our children are grown
and, and, uh, I don't know whether we really want to be tied down to a you know, another dog.
And we do have a very loving cat that's, you know, kind of our baby.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, and we like pets.
We like them around.
We have grandchildren that run through
and they think we should have a dog,
and that's because they have a Great Dane
Huh.
Yes.
They're just huge
Definitely.
Well, we, you know,
if it, um, if it were just more peaceful, you know, with the little ones, we would definitely have a pet.
I just think it's nice to have around.
We had a cat that had kittens.
So any pet that I get from now on will definitely be spayed or neutered.
Oh, yes,
yes.
Because, uh, I did.
That experience was awful
Yes,
I have never wanted to,
that's why we've never gotten a female, you know, in anything.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, uh, and our male cats, you know, we had, uh, neutered right away,
to baby very what you doing ?
and, of course, it, he doesn't know it.
He's still out partying.
Oh.
But, um, you know I do think that maybe we'll get a female next time and just had her, have her spayed, you know.
And, uh,
Well, a lot of times now when you buy them from like the S P C A or from the humane societies or whatever, their adoption includes their spaying.
Yes.
Yes,
yes.
So,
Which I think is a good thing.
It just breaks my heart to see these poor little old dogs wandering the streets looking starved
and, you know.
Uh-huh.
It, uh,
plus, uh, you know the safety factor and stuff.
Well, we enjoy having pets.
We, uh, you know, I think they're a lot of company,
and, and when my mother lived with us, uh, the cat was really hers
and, and he was kind of wild.
Our, our daughter found her and brought her to us,
and, uh, that cat walked in and walked right up to my mother and jumped up and curled up in her lap.
Oh.
And she was the only one at first that, you know, could really hold him, you know, because he was really skittish.
But it was like he knew you know,
uh-huh.
and he would sleep with her,
and so he was a lot of company to her. You know, and, and just love her.
Yeah.
And he's, cats are usually so independent
but this one you know, he comes up
and he crawls up next to my husband now, you know.
He's,
you know, before the dog died, we have a queen size bed and the dog would sleep on my side,
and the cat would sleep on my husband's side, you know
And when everybody turned we all four of us turned in a row
My husband that's one thing he hated was our cat used to sleep with us.
Uh-huh.
Our dog wasn't interested in even coming in our room,
but our cat would sleep with us
and he hated that.
Did he?
Uh-huh.
He just thought that they belong,
and when she'd walk on the couch along the back behind his head he hated that.
Uh-huh.
So, I guess it's probably, probably if we get another animal it probably wouldn't be a cat even though I love cats.
I think it would probably be a dog,
and it would definitely be an outdoor animal.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
I think that's one of the reasons our,
because as I said our, our Schnauzer was old.
And so he was becoming incontinent.
And so then I would just have messes in the house,
and I think that's one of the things that both of us are not wanting to start over with, you know.
Uh-huh.
Oh, yeah.
And, uh, and it was new carpeting
and, you know, it just really, you know, upset me no end.
Uh-huh.
And, uh,
Oh, that would, Greg, uh,
my husband's grandparents have a dog
and they just,
it needs to be put to sleep
but it's grandpa's dog,
and, uh, he's really getting too old to take care of it.
But the dog messes all over the carpet
and my daughter is just nine months old
Oh
and so then she crawls on the carpet
and, oh, the smell I mean it's just really awful
Uh-huh.
and that's, that's one real drawback,
but you know I guess you'll do just about anything for your pet if you love them enough
Yes,
you will.
You will.
You know, we were trying to decide to, you know, about putting him to sleep.
He was just, you know, he was getting so old and had a, other problems too.
And, and fortunately the decision was just taken away from us which made it a whole lot easier. You know,
and, and again going through that because our, our animals are almost like our kids in some ways, you know,
and, and you grieve just as much over them when they go you know, as you would a child.
Uh-huh.
And, and, you know, our son and, and his wife and our daughter and her husband and the grandkids all say, get a dog, get a dog, you know.
Little thing.
Be quiet,
be quiet.
And I can tell my husband, you know, deep down he, you know, he
Brian in Plano, Texas. How are you doing today?
Hi,
fine,
I'm Nancy.
How are you?
Great, Nancy.
I'm in Plano also
You're in Plano also, huh?
Yes,
we're not too long distance today.
Well, good to hear.
I was just talking to someone the other day from Pennsylvania.
Oh, that was good.
Utah, I've had a couple of,
but that was it.
Really?
Yeah.
All right.
Well, good to hear,
good to hear.
Learned about their basketball team
Which one?
Uh, Jazz.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
The Utah Jazz.
Yeah.
Yeah,
they're, they're pretty good.
They've got some good good, some good, uh, good players out there.
Yeah.
Well, you ready for New Year's Eve?
I am.
Good.
Should we, uh, start this so we can,
Okay.
What was your name again?
Nancy.
Nancy, that's right,
Right.
and I'm Brian.
Right.
Just a moment
Okay Nancy, then I guess the, today's subject is benefits in the job other than salary.
Right.
What, uh what do you feel are important to you or other people as, as crucial benefits?
Uh-huh.
Well, I'm a little different than other people because I don't have benefits with my job.
Uh-huh.
I'm a nurse
and I work,
Oh
I float so that I have no benefits except higher pay for doing that.
Uh-huh.
Right.
Uh-huh.
So I find that it makes up for what I pay for insurance
and I, I make enough money by the hour to make up for that.
To, to compensate for some of the benefits.
Right.
Uh-huh.
Oh.
Yeah,
it's cheaper for me to buy insurance by the month than to work staff someplace.
Yes.
And then I have my freedom.
I can work seven days in a row and take a week off or whatever I want to do.
Well, that, that's an excellent,
so actually that is a benefit, uh,
Well, it is to me.
Most people prefer the security of nine to five, and weekends off and knowing that their insurance is paid and their retirement,
Yeah.
and I'm just really not interested in all that.
Right.
Right,
well I guess that's a good point, uh,
Uh-huh.
I do belong to a, a large corporation
or my, that where I'm currently employed
and there's, uh, there's some different things, uh, one that you've already mentioned is, is health insurance.
I think through our health insurance that I can get better rates as a, through a group plan as opposed to going out and getting health insurance on an individual basis because I had to do that at one time when I wasn't employed with a large corporation
Right.
and that got to be somewhat expensive,
so I I think one of the benefits I, I see is the, uh, is the group, uh, group discount.
Yeah.
Right,
and especially if you have a family.
Yes.
Then I think it makes a big difference.
Yes,
and that's, that's one thing I do have.
Yeah.
If I didn't have a family, I don't think I would have, as, as a male or as a, as an individual of, in this stage of my life,
I don't think I would have insurance, uh, other,
Right.
I don't think I would go through that expense.
One other benefit that you mentioned is the flexible work hours
and in my previous job, I really enjoyed because they had what was called flex schedule where I could go and I could work, uh, nine hour days and have like Friday only work four hours
Oh, yeah.
or I could do, uh, work four days a week at ten hours a day and have a, you know, three day weekend. And make, uh, make my job flexible in that case.
Right.
Could you change that as you felt like it
or did you have to do it the same every week?
Well, basically, yeah
I had to do, that, uh, the same, uh, for about every quarter of the year.
I mean uh, because I was in a, in a position of management I had responsibilities over people that, uh, I needed to make my schedule, uh, so that if I was not there I would have coverage by some other management personnel,
Uh-huh.
so, so I, I think that, uh, that was a, that was an excellent benefit that I really enjoyed
Yeah.
and I don't have that in my current operation,
but, uh, you mentioned, uh, flexible work schedule
and that's, that's good.
Yeah.
And, uh, what other benefits do you think are important?
Oh, well, I guess, retirement, that kind of thing which I don't worry much about so
Yeah,
yeah,
that's true.
I just prefer to worry about today,
probably not a practical attitude
but that's who I am
so,
Well, and that's an individual thing.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
with, uh, with our current, uh, organization, we do have a nice retirement package
and also a, a nice thing that, that we have in our corporation is a, uh, is a profit sharing plan where we can, uh, participate in the, the profits of the company. If we're, you know, if we've been there a while and we're vested, uh, which means that, you know, we have a, an interest, uh, in the company that we can, uh, get some of the benefits of the, either the profit high times or, or in a sense, suffer during the low times
Right.
and, uh, also, uh, in one of my wife's, uh, companies where she worked, they'd had a real nice profit sharing plan that, that,
Okay, uh,
some of the T V shows I like to watch are, uh, mostly evening, evening shows
and, uh, like for instance the one I'm looking forward to, to tonight is TWENTY TWENTY.
I usually watch those prime time programs.
Right.
Uh, I like to watch FORTY-EIGHT HOURS.
Never miss that and, uh, sometimes PRIME TIME LIVE.
Uh, and then the week goes by
and I don't think I ever watch anything else.
You know, the, the Sunday night movies, I watch those kind of things. But, uh, most, but basically a lot of documentary things and, you know, what's going on and that kind of thing.
I I have a few, you know, favorite shows that I try not to miss.
Uh-huh.
L A LAW is one of them.
Uh-huh.
Although this year's, it's a little easier to miss than last year. With the new cast and everything.
Yeah.
Yeah,
it's hard to follow.
Right,
and, uh, I like ROSIE O'NEILL.
Oh, I've never seen that one.
THE TRIALS OF ROSIE O'NEILL with Sharon Gless.
Okay,
yeah.
She,
I've seen a, uh, the previews for that.
It's very good.
It, it's probably very much a woman's uh, show.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, and then there's a new sitcom on that is, Tim Allen's, uh, what is it, uh, HANDYMAN.
That's not what, uh,
HOME IMPROVEMENT.
Oh, we never miss that,
or we try not to miss that.
It's hysterical, isn't it?
Oh, we think it is, so funny.
Did you catch the Christmas?
Oh, just part of it
I thought it was, you know,
and it had such a good story, too.
Uh-huh.
Did you see the end of it?
No.
Well, you know, the little boy, the little one was trying to decide if there was a Santa Claus.
Uh-huh,
oh, that's right
and the neighbor,
they thought it was the neighbor.
They thought it was the neighbor.
He gave the two doubting Thomases a rubber band and a paper clip.
Yeah.
I thought that was wonderful.
And then, uh, it, it's, it appeared that maybe it probably wasn't the neighbor.
And, uh, on Sunday, used to be on Sunday nights, now I can't figure out where they've moved it.
On our, uh, public television, they had a show at ten thirty that was a computer show.
Uh-huh.
And it showed the latest, uh, developments from all the computer companies.
Uh-huh,
I've never seen that program.
Well, you know, it's,
unless you're really into computers, you and software, you probably wouldn't be interested,
Uh-huh.
but I don't know,
Uh-huh.
it just really gave me kind of an outlook of what was available out there.
Oh.
And, uh, you know, what, they, they covered everything from entertainment to spreadsheets, you know, and then they also, the hardware.
Oh.
Uh-huh.
So you could see what the new developments were and what to look for
and, I enjoyed that.
Uh-huh.
It was just a thirty minute show with no commercials.
Oh, okay.
It's public television, course, doesn't have the commercials during the show
so,
Yeah,
right.
And I like the FRUGAL GOURMET.
Oh, I do, too
Oh, I do, too,
but I just seem to, to miss a lot of these programs.
I don't know why.
I just,
if I can catch them, I do. Or if I remember.
Well, there's very few that, you know, my life would stop if I didn't catch.
But, uh, now I do,
before I go to work, I tape my soap opera.
Oh, yeah.
I watch one
and,
Well, I watch two,
but one's a half-hour
and one's an hour
and, and they lead into each other.
Oh.
And that's the BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL and AS THE WORLD TURNS.
Oh, okay.
And I've watched the, AS THE WORLD TURNS since I was a little girl
Yeah,
that's been on for years.
So it's just, you know,
it's, it's, something I've done for the last probably twenty-five years.
Oh, and so you get to come home and watch them
Yes,
and I don't have anyone else at home,
so I have freedom to watch whatever I want.
Yeah.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
But I like, I like every, I like the, uh, the information shows
and I like the comedies
and you know, and I, I do like good movies.
Uh-huh.
I prescribed, subscribe to H B O.
Yeah
well, we,
So I can get some of the movies.
Yeah,
that's a good idea.
We did have H B O,
but it, we just canceled it last week because it seemed like it was so repetitious, you know.
It is.
It's just,
But I don't sleep a whole lot
and I, you know,
at two o'clock in the morning, there isn't anything on regular T V
and,
Oh.
Oh, yes,
if you're up then
and you don't get good reception without cable
and it doesn't cost that much more to have one of the pay channels,
Yeah.
Right.
so that's primarily why I have it right now.
Right.
Yeah,
yeah.
I, I thought when I got my V C R, I'd probably drop it, you know,
but that was years,
Say you did, uh, starters and bendix springs such as that on an old one.
Yeah,
and, uh, helped my wife replace some carburetors.
Yeah.
Some that, she had to, uh, label everything
She had to label everything.
Yeah
because,
What was she driving?
It was a Cadillac.
Uh-huh.
And they, uh, well, they quit making those, the quieter jet carburetor
and they quit making it.
Yeah.
They rebuilt it
and it never did, never did run right again.
Yeah,
quad not really easy to get rebuilt just right.
Yeah.
Uh, and like, what were you replacing the starters and bendix on?
Uh, a Maverick and also, uh, a Chrysler station wagon before that.
Yeah.
Did you replace just the, uh, bendix on the Chrysler station wagon or the whole starter?
Uh, the,
I'm replacing the, two or three starters on the Chrysler.
Yeah.
They,
The starters are kind of fragile.
Yeah
and the,
Especially if you need a tune-up.
Uh-huh.
They kept saying that the that's what Chryslers did, is they wore out starters.
Yeah,
well, if they start real easy, you know, you just hit the key
and it starts up
Yeah.
and when it's properly tuned up, that starter will last for a long time.
Uh-huh.
See, they built that starter so it would fit every V eight and all the slant sixes that they've built in like thirty-five years.
Right.
They all take the exact same starter.
They'll interchange completely.
I mean completely.
One starter will fit all of them.
So they've got a whole lot of torque,
but to do that, they did it,
use an underdrive system,
but they geared it down so the motor spins really fast so it's got, to spin for very long,
Uh-huh.
it's kind of tough on the bushings.
Yeah.
Usually what goes is the bushings.
Right.
You take a little time, replace the bushings, you still got a perfectly good starter.
But, uh, most places don't put, don't rebuild them with, with with good enough bushings.
Uh-huh.
So it's, you know,
after you get rebuilt one, you have a tendency to go through them pretty quickly, especially if you need a tune-up.
Yeah.
Anyway, what are you driving now?
Uh, my Chrysler van
and it's, it's pretty maintenance free, you know,
and, uh, at the beginning of the year last year and drove a Chevrolet Cavalier station wagon
and it didn't give me any trouble at all.
That's good.
Yeah.
It was a late model,
is that Chrysler van?
It's a eighty-seven.
Yeah,
one of the little mini vans?
Uh-huh,
yeah.
Is a,
Do you like the way it rides and stuff?
Uh, rides or runs?
Rides rough?
It,
yeah,
well, yeah,
it rides, rides rough,
it runs good.
Yeah.
You know, I kind of,
it took me a while to get used to a four cylinder engine.
Yeah.
You have to kind of wait for it, especially when you get on the highway.
Yeah,
right now, without getting some of the sportier models, uh, the four cylinders aren't real peppy.
Yeah.
But, uh, they're starting to change that out in the last couple of years, too.
You driven American cars all,
Uh, yeah,
I've driven one uh,
I drove a Volkswagen Beetle for a while, about a month.
Uh, in a month I think I put, uh, three oil coolers on it.
Uh, every time I turned around I was having trouble with it.
Uh-huh.
Everything else I ever owned was American built. Uh, mostly older cars.
Uh, I've been a mechanic,
well, I worked, starting working my father's service station when I was about, uh, twelve.
Uh-huh.
So, I've been around cars a lot, but, uh, driven a lot of old Pontiacs.
My first three cars were, uh, seventy model Pontiacs. A G T O and a Bonneville and a station wagon.
I had a couple of Chryslers.
Had a super B for a while with a four forty in it.
Uh-huh.
It was a lot of fun.
But, uh,
Not much gas mileage, though.
I don't know,
gas mileage wasn't too bad.
It got about seventeen.
Oh, wow.
Well, till you got crazy with it.
You know, you get the four barrel all worked up
and suddenly it, it, it drops off fast,
but long as you didn't spin the tires too much or, or spend too much time with the secondaries kicked in it, it didn't do too bad on gas.
Yeah.
Didn't have to work too hard to move the car around.
Now, do you think since they started with electronic ignition that it improves the way the car runs?
Oh, yeah,
yeah,
definitely.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
the,
my last G M car was a seventy Chevy station wagon
and it still had the points and condenser in it.
When I rebuilt the engine on that, about a hundred and thirty thousand on the car.
Yeah.
I, uh, pulled that old points distributor out and got, an H E I distributor, electronic distributor put into it.
Well, I really enjoy reading the newspaper,
we get the daily, uh, DALLAS MORNING NEWS
and I try to look at it.
If I get busy I don't get a chance to pick it up, like this week I noticed several copies have been haven't been touched
but
Well, do you have time to read the paper in the morning?
Well, not in the morning,
but, uh, if the,
well, I have two children
and if they, uh, go out to play or something I like to keep my eye on them so I'll, you know, maybe go outside and read the paper while they're playing or sit in a chair by the window or something.
You know, a lot, a lot of people don't take newspapers at all.
We, we took the MORNING NEWS for a while,
Uh-huh.
and then, uh, well, we've been taking the TIMES HERALD for ages
and then, uh, dog just ran off with my shoe, that's off the subject, went outside, picked it up and ran off.
Anyway, uh, and then we switched the MORNING NEWS
but we found we couldn't read enough of it
and by the time I got home and had time to, to read some,
but, but I guess the, the issue is, uh, beside the newspaper, do you take any news magazines?
Well, we, I don't take, like TIME, or NEWSWEEK or anything like that,
but I do like to watch, uh, C N N.
I have several chores and things to do,
so it comes on at, like the nine o'clock p m
and so I will turn that on while I'm doing some work
and I can hear the news, not have to sit right down and listen to it.
Did, did you, did you hear what Schwartzkopf had to say about, uh, Pete Arnett, and, uh, the, the news coverage?
Well, he didn't have too good of opinion of it,
no,
I mean yes I did hear that
and so, uh, I do try to keep that in mind that whenever you're reading a paper it usually has a particular flavor.
Well any, you know, TIME magazine and even the news that,
sometimes that,
that's why I like some diversity the idea that, I, we have TIME which, which we take from time to time
and we,
the problem is they call up and make this deal, you know,
and, well we're taking that
Uh-huh.
and, and we also hit the Garland, GARLAND DAILY NEWS,
I guess it's, it comes out sporadically, like, twice a week or
Uh-huh.
but I think what's interesting is that if you're, that there, uh, that as difficult as it is, or as, as much as they try, they put some bias,
I had the chance to hear Tracy Rowlett speak to a group
and it was interesting that they think that they're basically impartial.
Um.
And that,
but, and, and, you know, people accuse them of controlling the news he says, you know, we don't control the news we just report it the way we, the way it is.
Uh-huh.
And,
Well, I wouldn't think I would really say that that's not true, because uh, it seems like certain newspapers always espouse certain candidates,
Yes.
and, so, uh, news stations always tell the story from a certain angle
and that's why it's a good idea to get a wide variety of coverage so that you get a lot of different opinions.
You may never get the truth,
but you'll have a variety to choose from.
Yeah,
and I, I thought that was particularly interesting in the, the Gulf War, that there were pieces of information that, that were apparently, uh, leaked just as a, as, as, uh, a ploy.
Uh-huh.
Which was, uh,
I, I find that fascinating that, uh,
Yeah,
I do, too.
Do you ever listen to the radio
or any,
I listen to K R L D, and, uh, uh, K L I F, the news talk radio.
Uh-huh.
And I actually listen to C N N radio.
Do you know it was on radio now?
No,
I don't.
It's on eleven ninety.
Um. I really, uh, have gotten out of the habit of listening to the radio from any kind of, even music
and, uh,
Well, when I go to work I listen.
Yeah,
my husband does
and it's how come he usually calls me sometimes, and says, oh, I just heard on the news that such and such happened, you know, if it's something really interesting
and and then I'll know to, to keep an eye out for it,
Yeah.
but I've got out of the habit of listening to the radio.
Well, with, with your, you know,
if you're around the home, though and, and, and can watch T V and read the paper, the problem is, is that about twenty minutes of news radio, or thirty minutes is
and then they start repeating everything.
Uh-huh.
And, and so it's kind of a, oh,
that's what's interesting is the C N N, uh,
I don't think, I'm trying to think if it's much local.
I listen to a little of that
and I listen to a little of ninety point one.
I, I'm, I'm inveterate switcher.
Uh-huh
That and ninety-eight point seven, I'm eclectic approach.
Do you have a particular local channel that you watch?
Well, I watch channel five
but that has to be,
that's another bias.
Uh-huh.
That has to do with the weather reporting.
I'm not sure that,
actually I think channel eight is probably,
but I know Dave Fox,
he goes to our church
so,
Um. Well I am, we're fairly new to the area
and so we're still shopping for a favorite channel.
Well the, Channel eight when they came here thirteen, fourteen years ago, Dave Fox and Tracy Rowlett came together, uh, from Oklahoma City
Uh-huh.
and apparently channel eight was way down
and now they have turned it all around and done a pretty remarkable job
and then they've been some people move around
and, uh, John Chriswell is, anyway, the,
I, I don't know,
do you, do you, do you seem to,
can you tell much difference between the local radio, T V stations?
Well, I really think so.
I noticed on channel eight that there's all of the, uh, anchors, are seem to be like white Anglo Saxon protestant type people
and they all seem to be, you know, fairly similar
and I kind of prefer a, you know, some females,
I don't recall that they have any female anchors
and I like different, I like the anchors to be different kinds of people.
I think that adds to the diversity,
I think that, uh, I like that.
Uh-huh.
Uh, there, I know, you know, John Wylie Price,
I don't know if you kept up,
but he's been protesting,
Yes
I have
and, uh, I prefer you know to have a little bit of variety like that because I think you're, you're more likely to get,
Yeah,
and I think he has legitimate argument.
I mean you can, uh,
I, I, I grew up in Alabama
and so I, I have some prejudices.
Uh-huh.
But I think that, I think that, that from a, a justice standpoint, because we have the option of not watching that station.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I'm not sure I, I'm totally in favor of affirmative action in some of the programs
but I think that, uh, in some cases this should be some real opportunity and, and some diversity, and and this kind of thing
Yeah.
and I think that, Dallas, it turns out, though from what I understand, has quite good,
I occasionally go to Saint Louis.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, there for a few days and watch the news and, and think Dallas really does have, have quite good news.
I think channel eight is the number one, uh, A B C affiliate in the U S.
I think Tracy Rowlett was saying that he,
Oh, really?
Course he pumping his own
Well, we, you know,
like all of the stations seem to be pretty good,
it's just we haven't found one that we've snuggled into.
Where'd you move from?
Houston.
So we had a, a favorite,
or I did, have a favorite channel that I usually tuned into for local news.
I guess because you get use to, you like the anchors,
Yeah.
and you feel comfortable with them
and,
It is interesting though,
it becomes a little of personality.
In fact, the, the guy that was on, the weatherman on channel eight worked for me, oh, long time ago, twenty years or so, even longer than that. Twenty-one, twenty-three years ago or so, twenty-four, anyway long time ago
Uh-huh.
and, and shortly after I got, we got here fourteen years ago
and, uh, they had, they had fired him, uh, because he was too
anyway, didn't, he didn't have the personality, and wasn't drawing the crowds
Uh-huh.
and that's interesting.
That's, that's what the T V stations do.
they're trying to get ratings.
That's true.
And I think, if we remember that, that they're out after the ratings.
Their job.
That's true.
So that really effects how they report the news.
Well, it's like the, the Dale Hansen on channel eight is a, sometimes a little too cutesy
but, I wonder if we're coming up on ten minutes.
Is he the sports,
Have you talked, have you been on the conversation when they beeped you at ten minutes?
Yeah,
I guess it is time to close now, so I can run go help put the kids to bed.
Okay,
well good talking to you.
Yeah.
Goodnight.
Bye-bye.
Are, are you a T I-er?
No,
no,
I work there as a temporary.
Oh, really.
But, are you at T I?
Oh yeah.
So you have to do the random drug testing.
Oh, yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
In fact with me, this is, it's not much to talk about,
I'm so much for it.
I don't really have much to comment about it.
There've been some interesting subject that they've called about.
How many times have you called,
or have you been participating in this?
Oh, about ten or eleven calls.
Oh, you got ten,
well you, you've passed me up.
Right.
This is about six times.
Oh.
As contract person we have to do random drug testing, too.
Yeah.
It doesn't bother me.
I don't feel like it's really a violation of privacy or anything.
No,
I think it's good.
In fact, I don't know what the statistics were,
but I think that they were surprised to find it so low.
I think they were expecting to find, uh, like the national average at T I.
And I think it was tremendously down.
As far as the number of drug users, you mean?
Yeah
Huh.
as far as the number of people they actually found that were drug users.
But I think that on when I was at T I of course, we had all the information before they started.
Right.
And they said that a certain number of people that the heavy drug users would either quit or go in rehabilitation programs.
And I think that's what helps, you know, that in the warning that you have a drug program, the people that are worried about it or are taking drugs, actually go
and then usually a lot of them partake in some of the benefits of rehabilitation and everything.
Right,
yeah,
so that's real beneficial for the company and the employee.
Yeah,
and our numbers have been way down.
I don't know what they were.
When I worked for the temporary agency as a permanent person,
and so we had,
when we sent temporaries to T I, we had to have their drug tested.
Yeah.
And we did have a couple of cases where we really, the person said that they hadn't used anything,
and their test came back positive,
and normally we didn't retest them.
But there were a couple of people that we really thought that they were telling the truth
and we retested them like the next day,
and they came back negative the second time.
Oh, really.
So that, that's the only thing, I think, that might be a little bit of a problem.
Oh, you're,
that's a good point,
but at T I they, before they had the testing, I've forgotten, seems like it's a year ago September, something like that, they told us that the agency that did it was the one that did it for the government.
And, of course, that's critical, just as the point that you brought up that whoever does your testing's got to be, you know, have a lot of quality control, that they keep track of everything.
They don't make mistakes.
That would be terribly embarrassing for someone to really come back positive
Right.
and they were not.
And I haven't heard of any,
now I'm not in personnel or anything.
Yeah.
But, uh, they say that there, it's almost down to zero where people come back and say they are positive and they're not.
In other words, there's very few mistakes,
and that, of course, has got to be critical.
It's got to be, if you have a drug testing program,
it's got to be with a very, very good agency.
You don't just have some local group do it.
It's got to be a highly qualified agency.
Right,
yeah,
not just some doctor's office somewhere.
No,
you don't want to do that.
It's got to be a laboratory that does quality control and double check.
And I think that T I is latched themselves up with an established group.
And that would be good for any company that does it, and not to have just a very casual thing.
It's got to be with a, you know, first class, totally independent agency. Not local of course.
Ours, I think, well I think it was in the south somewhere,
but it wasn't even in Dallas, you know, the one that did us.
Oh really.
Yeah.
Huh. Do they have a policy where they counsel people if they come back positive,
or do they fire them right away.
Oh, no.
They're not fired.
They are, they have one chance to then go in a program.
You come back positive, you have one chance to go in, and go into, they have a lot of, uh, rehabilitation, both for alcohol and for drug use,
and they have, uh, a lot of, uh, they have an agency where you can go for personal problems, financial or whatever.
Right.
And so they, they, they don't,
no,
it's not firing first.
It's, uh, definitely trying to encourage people to rehabilitate.
In fact, again, before you go, you know, that's why I said, when they first started it, they had a rehabilitation program in effect that said if you worried about this and you may have taken drugs, go ahead and get rehabilitated first,
and they won't say anything about it.
Right.
I think that's really good.
Oh sure.
I know some places just fire people on the spot if they come back positive or something.
Oh yeah,
no,
that's not right.
It's really an illness, or whatever you want to say that it is.
You know, it's a weakness and all,
and who, all of us have weaknesses of one kind or another.
And I think that those people that have that and however they got into it,
I have children,
I always worry about the, the classical thing that you see on T V, where the drug pushers give it to the kids for free, you know, and get them sucked in,
and then they sell it to them.
You know the classical thing is to give it away.
Right.
I always worry about my teenage daughters going to some party
and they slip it to them.
I don't know,
I don't even have that much knowledge to know whether that would get them addicted or not, you know.
That's a real worry.
Yeah,
some of the stories you read about cocaine, that's like people try it one time and they're addicted.
My husband is a counselor,
and he works, mostly with adolescents.
Oh, you know a lot about that.
So yeah,
I hear a lot of horror stories about things like that.
Uh-huh.
But most of the time it's they get into the wrong crowd first,
and then they start a drug problem.
Yeah.
It's usually not a one time accidental thing, I don't think.
Yeah,
I know,
I'm glad of that.
And I have, knock wood, pretty good luck, or very good luck with my daughters on so far,
that's my conference call,
I have one daughter still at home.
One's at U T
and one's at home, gets dozen calls a night.
Oh, well I'll let you go if you want to go ahead and take that,
No,
no,
I don't care about that,
she'll be on the phone all night.
Yeah,
it seems if you watch what kind of crowd that start running around with and kind of keep up with who their friends are that's best way to avoid trouble, from what I can gather.
Right.
Do you have children?
No
not yet,
we're expecting a baby in July,
Oh, great,
so we're starting.
Fantastic experience.
I've got two, as I said, I've at U T now in Austin, and one at home,
and I always say that I've learned so much more from them than I ever taught them.
Yeah.
It's a fantastic experience.
Oh, we're really excited about it.
Oh yeah.
You know, one thing my husband believes is if you suspect your kids are having any kind of problems, he believes you should take your kids in for a random testing, like on a Saturday morning, if they've been out at a party Friday night.
Yeah.
If you're not too sure what's going on, he tells parents all the time, haul them into the doctor's office and get them checked.
The key thing that I think, that we try to do, is that bring all the friends over here.
Have our house as a place where they can come at any time, so that you always see their friends rather than make them not welcome
Right.
and they're always over in someone else's house.
So our, we've been lucky that our house is usually the place where the kids could come, you know.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
I think that's a really good thing to encourage.
And then you can keep an eye, you can make judgments and make comments or whatever you want.
But at least you see what's going on,
and you always have your house welcome, then your children think that, you know, you're cool parents and all that.
Right
Well good luck with your expected baby there.
Oh well, thanks.
My wife was yelling, was talking in my ear,
she said, reminded me to say that they're very cheap until they get to start driving.
Uh-huh.
And we have one, of course, I say, in college driving. And one going to drive this summer,
so kids are, cost you practically nothing, because you always get so many things from your relatives and everything.
But you wait until they go and get a car, insurance, that's when they get expensive.
As they get older you know, they cost practically nothing from one to five,
Yeah.
and then slowly but surely starts to creep up when they start to take lessons,
but it's well worth it and everything.
Yeah,
uh, yeah,
I think it'll be neat.
Be a, be a great experience really.
You still there?
Okay,
I thought I was cut off there.
You know, I don't have much to say about drug testing.
No,
I can't think of anything else to say about that either.
So you've done this ten times?
Yeah.
Did you get the booklet on how to get the gifts and all?
No,
I don't work for T I,
so I get cash.
Oh, okay.
I didn't know what they were going to do.
They sent us a little booklet,
I just got it a week or so ago saying, you know, so many calls will be something a prize and everything.
Right.
Well that great.
Well what kind of cash?
I've forgotten what they going to do.
Hm.
Was it five dollars a call?
Yeah,
five dollars a call.
Well, hope they follow through and everything.
Well technically we're not supposed to talk about the phone calls while we're on them
so I guess we better get off.
Right,
yeah,
It was good talking to you.
Alright.
Bye-bye now.
Bye.
Well, Wayne, I've never done any, uh, auto repairs myself at all.
Uh-huh.
I mean, I may have screwed in a little screw that looked like it was falling out on the door or something
but, uh, I personally haven't done anything.
Maybe I've, uh, changed wiper blades or something
but I have noticed since, uh, I got married that my husband, he hates to do auto repairs,
but he would rather do them himself than, than to pay someone else.
I guess, he can't make himself pay someone to do the repairs when he knows, he knows how to do it,
and he'll do it.
So, he, he hates the time that he takes,
but he has changed, um, the brakes
and he has done all of the tune-ups
and the like that
and recently he changed the steering mechanism in the car.
I was really impressed with that
We had to have it to get the car inspected,
it wouldn't pass inspection
and, and so, he priced around
and everyone wanted several hundred dollars for it
so, he thought, well, I can get one in a junkyard for like fifty dollars, which he did
and then, he did it
and, so, I guess, uh, he's been pretty good about keeping our cars up,
what, uh, what's your experience been like?
Well, I, uh, I have a long experience with cars.
I, uh, when I was younger, uh, my brother had a Corvette
and I bought a Corvette
and when you have a Corvette you more or less do all the work
and I've done everything from build the motor from the, uh, you know, the bare block on up.
And, I, I'm the same way as your husband is when it comes to my car, I hate to go pay somebody good money, you know,
I hate to pay somebody twenty-five dollars on hour for something I can do myself.
Uh-huh.
It just, to me it makes absolutely no economic sense to do that.
Right.
In fact, I, um, just this past weekend put new plugs in both, uh, my car an my wife's car.
Uh-huh.
And so, I, uh, I pretty much try to troubleshoot and do everything I can do myself
but I've, I've gotten to the point in my life, um, you know, I just crept over forty years old, where I don't want to crawl underneath the car anymore
That makes sense.
I mean it's, um, I don't know whether I've, I've just reached a point, you know,
it's, it's real rough in the winter time.
Huh, yes.
And, uh, so, I try to make sure that, uh, by the time fall runs around, because we actually have winters here on the east coast, um, that, uh, I have, you know, the car's in pretty good shape enough to last through the winter
Right
and, uh, then springtime I usually end up giving them, the, uh, a tune-up and make sure that they're running well,
and, uh, you know, it's like I had the muffler go out on my, on my car, shortly before it was required to go,
in Maryland they have, uh, emission tests.
Uh-huh.
And you're required to get your car and go through the emission test,
well, my muffler, of course, starting going bad right before I was supposed to go to the emission test,
so. You know, I had to do that job,
and of course, that was back in December when it's nice and cold outside
Yes,
I'm sure it was.
But the thing was that I could do the job myself,
I mean, the parts cost me, oh, roughly a hundred dollars.
Uh-huh.
Um, if I'd taken it someplace and have it done it was going to be three hundred twenty-five.
Right.
Now like who's got that extra two and a quarter
I know I don't.
Yeah.
Well, that's exactly the way he feels is that, he really hates to spend the time,
it takes a lot of time
if he, if he thinks it's going to be two hours, it's four if, you know, whatever, it always takes him twice as long.
But then when he's finished he's, he always says, well, now you owe me three hundred dollars
And then he thinks that he has the money that, that he can spend on something
and he hasn't given it to someone else.
Yeah.
So, he gets some satisfaction out of that although, generally I think he, he does not look forward to or anticipate,
there's some people that enjoy tinkering around on cars.
There's a lot of people
and he just isn't one of them.
Yeah.
I, uh, I don't mind it,
um, there was a time when I had my Corvette,
I mean, of course, I loved it, um,
but if, you know,
I've got other interests now
and there's a lot, other more important things I think I should be doing with my time.
And I have the same problem,
I mean, you can tell him from me
but it doesn't matter,
I mean, I've, I've had greasy fingernails for years
And it still takes me twice as long as I think it's going to take to do the job,
Yeah.
so, but, I think the difference is that, uh, when you own the car you take more care in what you're doing,
Uh-huh.
and you want to make sure that it's done right and put back together right,
and, you know, I've, I've in the past I've had brake jobs done by someone that when I went back and looked at it some months later I'd find something drastically wrong with it, you know, like a spring that was put in incorrectly which could have resulted in brakes failing and me having an accident. You know, those kind of things,
Right.
Right.
and when you have a vehicle that's being used by, you know, other members of your family, you know, you don't want that kind of a situation to come up.
No.
And it's very, very difficult to find a mechanic these days that you can trust.
I only have one guy that I know that I trust to work on my car.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, he's about sixty miles from here.
And so, it,
and if I have something that's really major that I can't handle or feel I don't have the time to handle, I'll take it to him to do it.
Right,
you know, that it's, uh , really has a bad reputation is to feel that, that people in general feel and have, have rightly so, I think been cheated many times,
and, um, and well, I know once when we had a,
we usually inspection time we find out there's something wrong with our car
but, um, once the muffler needed to be changed
and, uh, he had looked at him himself
and, but we saw a commercial for like fourteen or twenty dollars or something for a change
he said, that's really, really good
so, he went in
and, uh, but when they quoted him a price they really wanted fifty or something.
Anyway, but the car that the muffler people had, um, my, at least my husband felt that they had damaged the muffler further, you know,
they had punctured a big hole in it when it really could have just been patched or whatever,
Uh-huh.
and so, since then, I don't think he's ever even seriously considered a, you know, any kind of job he thought he could do himself.
But, I know from his childhood, he says that his father always buys and restores cars just as entertainment, I guess.
And, um, so, Kelly growing up, he, he felt like that, that was a good way on Saturday's that he developed a good relationship with his father.
Uh-huh.
And so, he used, they used car repairs kind of as a way to have a, you know, something that they did together,
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
and he thought that turned out pretty good because it, you know, it helped him to understand and be functional now,
and it helped him to have a close relationship,
so, that's one, one way he looked at it.
Yeah.
that's probably, uh, uh, something that, uh, is, is you know, is good for both of them.
I know that, uh, my older son I could never get him interested in cars
and I couldn't, you know,
I just like, you know,
you sure you're a boy,
I mean, your not interested in cars,
Uh-huh.
I mean he, he just would not have anything to do with them.
And, uh, later on and like when he, you know, grew up, got out of the house, got his own car, um, he didn't know how to do anything to it. I mean, absolutely nothing.
I mean, he couldn't even check the oil.
I mean, that's, that's how uninformed he was and disinterested.
Uh-huh.
And, I guess there are some people out there like that, um, you know,
I always thought maybe, you know, if he took more of an interest and, you know, what I was doing
and maybe we could have communicated better.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, yeah,
I, I think that's great.
Yeah,
it didn't always work.
Well, I felt, um, I feel like I could myself, do some things but, that I have enough responsibility that if I have someone like my father when I was living at home, and my husband, that's willing to do it, I go ahead and let them do it.
I don't feel the need to, um, you know, be a feminist on that issue and say I can take care of my own things.
I'm, I'm happy to let them run the cars because I have so, many other responsibilities that, um,
so, I haven't tried to do a lot myself.
Uh, I trained my, uh, my wife in the in, in doing things,
in fact, uh, when I, uh, first transferred down to, uh, Texas Instruments back in nineteen eighty-seven, um, uh, when I left here, uh, she had to change a set of plugs on the car because she was up here for a month or so, after I was
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and, uh, it was an interesting experience for her.
I mean, she'd always assisted me and done some other things
but for her to actually get in there and do it herself it was, uh, it was something, a little different.
It's a good experience,
it helps you feel, I think comfortable with your car and feel like, it's not so, scary if, um, your driving it and you might get stranded somewhere that you might, you think, well, I've, I've been under that hood
and I know what's going on
but,
Yeah,
yeah,
I think it's important that everyone know, you know, basically how, how the darn engine works,
Uh-huh.
it helps you figure out what's wrong with it, you know,
Uh-huh.
I've, I've been out with my sister before when, you know, her car died on the highway
and I happened to be with her and managed to get her to the other side of the road because it was dark and all,
Women?
Yeah,
the changing roles of women, how roles changed
and what do you see coming in the future.
Oh, okay,
that's not a broad enough topic
Okay,
yeah.
Sounds good.
I'm ready when you are.
Okay,
hold on.
Okay.
Are you there?
Yeah,
I'm here.
Oh my goodness,
I can't believe I did that.
Okay,
hold on.
That's okay.
Okay, um,
I.
Okay,
um, I don't know,
are you in your thirties,
or,
No,
I, I'm twenty-three.
Oh, okay.
Uh-huh.
Well then I can tell you that roles have changed.
I'm thirty-eight
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
and they changed quite a bit.
Uh-huh.
Um, I,
this was my twentieth high school reunion, in Chicago.
Uh-huh.
And basically, um, the choices, I mean, you know,
you probably heard that in the fifties women liked to stay home and all that.
Right,
uh-huh.
That's kind of, um, the opposite of what it was in the sixties and early seventies.
Right.
It was sort of just to um, go protest,
Uh-huh.
and, uh, just, everybody be damned and live with some one,
and, you know,  social morals were a little bit lacking.
Uh-huh,
I know that,
Uh-huh,
I know that, uh, in, in the early seventies, uh, I think women were the first people to, to make a move as far as individuals.
Uh-huh.
Um, uh, before that a lot of people that wanted to protest were large groups like, uh, black people, or, you know, just large, large groups of people,
but, but the,
Right
it was more, it was more civil rights oriented, or race oriented rather than gender based,
Right,
yeah.
and I think, I think the women's movement kind of brought in individual lives where you had women's movements
and you had gay movements,  and just the smaller groups of people.
Uh-huh.
It did.
And I think since then is, is when a lot of the women's roles have started to change.
It did
and some of the other stuff that, um, I think that changed it, you, uh, when I first got out of college fifteen years ago, they were always saying well, if you, if you were assertive you were a libber,
or you were aggressive not assertive and independent.
Uh-huh.
And in terms of the corporate community, I've seen a big change in terms of men finally being quote, unquote, used to women,  who are in, uh, controlling positions,  as higher, you know, corporate, in the corporate hierarchy.
Uh-huh.
Exactly.
Uh-huh
So I think that's good.
I think that, uh, you know, you can just look at home life and see, I've been talking to a lot of people about education and things,  and, and what, what, what affects the school system
Uh-huh.
and I think that a big thing that effects it is that the mother is not home anymore,  um, like she used to be.
Right.
She used to be kind of a, kind of a, a rock, you know,  in the house,
The mainstay,
yeah.
yeah.
And, uh, since, since everyone is going out and working now, whether it be because of finances or just the economy,  uh, the mother's not there anymore
and restructuring, stepfamilies,
yeah.
and the children are,
I think, I think a lot of society is suffering.
Not to say that women shouldn't, you know, go out and do what they want to do
but I think that, um,  society's really going to have to get used to it.
Right.
And they're not quite used to it yet
and that's I,
The schools or the the schools or the parents,
yeah.
Yes,
uh-huh.
Um, I'm trying to think of what else.
I have a lot of opinions on this except all of a sudden I went blank
A lot of the things, um, the demographics do,
I mean, there are more,
I don't have the numbers in my head right now,
but, a lot of the things that brought feminism, I mean there are just more women in, in, in the demographics, just generally,  in the United States, in terms of being,
Right,
uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I mean, I'm the typical baby boomer,
I hate that term,
Oh, yeah.
but in terms of women,  women going out, I mean twenty-three, I remember that.
Yeah.
What's it like to be twenty-three as a woman today,
I mean, when I was twenty-three the issues were either go to graduate school or get married,
Uh-huh.
um, those were the general issues.
Speaking of getting married, I was talking to someone yesterday on this, on the project,
Uh-huh.
and, uh, uh, we were talking about child care
and he asked me if I had any kids.
He was about forty or fifty years old
and I said no, I'm just twenty,
He was ancient,
yeah.
and I said no, I'm just twenty-three,  you know, because I don't think of myself as needing to have children
Uh-huh.
but the first thing he says is, well don't you miss that part of your life.
And I just,
I,
my, my mind just went,
You didn't know what you're going to be missing.
I went, what. You know,
because it it really didn't, doesn't even occur to me right now to have children,
I don't have any either
and I've been a married for eleven years,
so.
Yeah,
and I, it just, you know,
I think that I'll probably have children when I'm about thirty, thirty-five, something like,  just because, I'm not sure if it's just, if it's just me, or, or women in general that are twenty-three right now, because, um, I'm really into my career.
Yeah,
when it's time,
uh-huh.
I'm trying to go somewhere, and,  and get there quick and then worry about, you know, because right now, in my career I'm, I'm really starting out,
Yeah,
you want to establish,
and it's going to take me a while to move up.
Uh-huh,
And I don't need anything kind of holding me back, um.
Right
and, and you'll find that that's the other big thing that has changed in terms of,  um, women don't feel like they need to get married anymore.
Uh-huh.
Right,
uh-huh.
I was twenty-seven when I got married
and I just at the time, um,
my husband actually even jokes about it.
Uh-huh.
He was twenty-three when we met
an I was at a point where it was like, I didn't date,
I mean, I just, I went out to have a good time,
Right.
but I didn't have to have male companionship.
Right,
right.
Um, and a lot of the, um, friends that I had in school at that point, who had gone back and gone to law school, or M B A programs, um, which I also had done, had just, you know, they were very sad.
Uh-huh.
But then by the time I got married, um,  it seemed like they were on their second or third around the marriage track.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
yeah,
So, I guess that's a big change in terms of, just, um, the attachments that women feel like they need to have, the dependency,  their self-identity is stronger.
Yeah,
yeah,
it's, it's just really not there anymore.
Yeah.
And that, that has to do with, you know, the women getting out and other women seeing, uh, women seeing other women, you know,  out in the corporate world.
Right.
Uh-huh.
That's like, oh, I can do that.
You know, maybe,  I don't need to get married.
Right,
and I, I, I mean, I don't know how,  how old your mom is,
she's probably,
let's see my mother's in her early sixties,
so.
She's, she's about forty.
Okay,
I'm thirty-eight,
your mother's
I just turned thirty-eight.
Um, yes
I'm laughing,
oh my God.
It does start to creep up.
Uh-huh.
No,
um, but it's okay,
don't ever let age,
I mean, I don't
Okay.
nobody talks about it for women except other women and other men.
I, I just turned twenty-three, uh,  April twentieth,
Uh-huh.
and I'm still going, you know, oh my God, I'm getting so old.
I just,
because me, myself, I just like to move really, really quickly.
Yeah,
an,
I like to,
anything I do,
I got out of school quick.
I'm, you know,  I'm working quick.
Uh-huh.
I want to move up quick.
I want to make money quick.
I want to retire quick.
Yeah.
And so anything,
when the age creeps up, where I'm twenty-three and twenty-four,  I'm thinking my time is running out. You know,
Uh-huh.
but I'm actually very, very young.
Yeah,
you are, because what I was going to say is, what you will find is, my background is in journalism and corporate communications,
Uh-huh.
and what you'll find is,
I mean, I'm just now finally to a point where,
I mean I don't know why I didn't, didn't do it sooner,
Uh-huh.
but this is probably typical of the women's movement too,  is the idea that you're going to be forty tomorrow anyway, if you want to go back to school.
Uh-huh.
I'm seriously considering going back to school for law.  Um, which is a complete, I wouldn't say career change, it's, it's a subway ,
Um.
Uh-huh.
but it's still is a different application.
And I mean, if you think about it, you know, I I still can have another career.
I mean I've worked for over fifteen years in what I've done.
Yeah,
yeah.
And I mean, so when you're saying quick, um, I think that's probably one thing that your generation coming up after mine,  is thinking that, um, they have to do you know, sort of,  I call kind of, I call it a chewing syndrome.
Uh-huh.
Right.
They have to eat real fast
they have,  they have to, rapidity of speech,
Uh-huh,
exactly.
they have to just go through everything.
Exactly.
And you'll find that probably by the time your twenty-eight, thirty, if you haven't slowed down,  something will slow you down.
Uh-huh.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah,
yeah,
Um, because it's just, you find out that you're really not, um, smelling the roses,
and I know that sounds trite,  and all that.
Yeah,
I think, I think a lot of, uh, people probably feeling that way,
I know, I'm probably feeling that way because it's, everything's geared towards young.  You know
Uh-huh.
and whether I want to realize it or not, everything on television is young,  young, young, young.
Oh it is.
You can't be a model after thirty,
you can't do this after twenty, you know
and,  everybody that's in the music business is starting out at fifteen.  You know,
That's right.
Uh-huh.
and so I feel like I'm old.
It's like I sing,  I sing
and I would really love to become,  uh, a professional singer,
Uh-huh.
but I think I'm too old now,
Oh, you're not,
no.
and I'm twenty-three,
No.
because everyone I've seen coming up, they're fifteen.  You know,
That's true
I mean, it's, it's,
and so I'm going, I'm so old
and I'm, I, I really have to always tell myself, no, you're not, you're very young.
No,
you're extremely,
yeah,
it's, it's
And, you know, so it's,
Well it's like us, we're getting ready to do, if possible, for an adoption
and I have friends that say well why would you do that,  if you know you haven't been able to children, which we do know, why would you do that now, at this part, point,
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
and, um, it's just individual choices.
Yeah.
I stopped comparing myself a long time ago to somebody who had, um,
in my family my brother's children,
Uh-huh.
I mean, he just turned forty,
his children will be out of high school before he's forty-five.
Wow.
Um, I mean that's like your mother,
look how young she is,  compared to where you are out of school and everything.
Uh-huh,
yeah.
Right.
It's just, it,
but what you find is you don't compare the woman, because you just get into trouble.
It's all independent and choices.
Uh-huh,
yeah,
very true.
Um, but what I was going to say about mothers is, uh, your mother probably just won't say it,
but, I mean, my mother and her sisters are always saying, uh, to my cousins and I, my female cousins,  you girls are so lucky because quote, unquote, you have all these choices, you know,
Uh-huh.
you went to school,
Right,
uh-huh.
you can do this,
you can do that,
Uh-huh.
we couldn't do that then.
And my cousins and I go, well why couldn't you
Yeah,
that's, that's why I say I feel, I feel really lucky right now, because I'm not married and because I don't have children.
I'm out of school,
I'm twenty-three,
I can do anything I want to do, anything.
Uh-huh.
And so, I mean even some days I'm looking for another job now,
but, and I get so depressed because, not because I can't find a job, but because I can't figure out what I want to do.
And that's normal,
I mean,  I think that's the world today.
And yeah,
and I
and I'm lucky though, because not a lot of people can sit there and go gee, I don't know what to do.
I have so  you know,
Right
that's
not a lot of people,
Yeah.
but it's depressing too.
That's how, I mean,  What, I'm right now.
What do you, what do you that you're,
Uh-huh.
I'm, I'm a free-lance writer right now.
Oh.
And then, um, what I'm doing is working at, um, a an electronics company,  for their company newspaper,  right now on the side,
Uh-huh.
Oh.
and then I'm also,
actually, I'm excited, tomorrow I have a, uh, luncheon appointment with a perspective client to do,  uh, marketing communications for them.
Huh.
Huh, okay,
I'm a, I'm a news reporter, now,
Oh you are?
and what I'm looking for is something in, I really don't want to stay in news,
but I would like to stay in journalism,
and I've been looking for something exactly like that
Here's what you
this is off the topic,
Yeah,
well, you know,
That's, that's the part that,
t-, whether my dentist or
That's the part that scares me, you know.
I mean beginning with this is, this is just for homosexuals,
well no,
it's for homosexuals and gays,
well no,
actually, it's,
I mean, you know.
Did they know that all along?
and I heard something the other day, this sounds ridiculous, about mosquitoes.
And, you know, they've been saying oh, no, absolutely not.
Can't get it from mosquitoes.
And, uh, and now they are saying well maybe in the right conditions,
yes.
Oh
And I don't know that's true or not.
I mean, I just heard it in passing,
but so what does that,
Right.
what does that mean for people that you work with and shake hands with and
And how is it really transmitted, et cetera.
Yeah.
Which is, I think, what they also don't know.
I mean that's,
I think they, they told us what was convenient and felt safe to say, you know.
Uh-huh.
It was nice to isolate it to one particular community that they have trouble, you know, they just as soon not approve of anyway,
but, but that isn't how it was in Africa.
No.
In Africa was the men and women and, and had nothing to do with that,
and it's huge over there.
So I, I, you know,
and it's beginning, other countries
that's what's his point.
This was an international, conference where people are saying, well, but in my country it's, you know, like this.
Uh-huh.
And does that mean like flus and everything else, there are all these different strains of it?
Oh.
I mean I don't know.
All I'm saying is I think it's scarier than we know.
Uh, or maybe they understand but,
I think maybe more information should be given out about it.
Yeah,
and, uh, and then the people that have it,
it does seem that there are, are some drugs that are there that, you know, they keep holding back.
If you, if I were dying, I'm not sure I would care.
I, I, give me cyanide.
I mean, is it )),
Yeah,
right.
I'll take anything you know.
Uh-huh.
I mean if I'm dying, if I know I'm dying, you can experiment on me.
Ri-,
Exactly.
Go ahead.
And why can't you, why can't the F D A say, you know, if these people knowingly consent to be, research monkeys and well, let them,
Exactly.
let them, do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's what I think they're saying too.
Have you had any snow up your way?
No,
we haven't had any since, uh, oh, just before Christmas
and, uh we had a lot before Christmas.
Um.
The ski resorts were really
and, uh,
but, now we have, we've had fog, for about forty days in a row and temperature inversion,
so,
but no, uh, no snow.
Um.
The snows all melted off uh,
Well, I talked to a woman who lived up in the hills, uh, mountains in, uh, Utah, I guess this last weekend
and she had, uh, quite a bit of snow on the ground her way.
Uh-huh,
I guess there's different parts of the state of Utah that, that, does have some,
but not,
usually we have up to a hundred and fifty inches up at the ski resorts
and they're down between thirty-eight and, uh, forty inches.
Um
At this time of the year,
and we've been in a drought for the last five years
and this is the sixth year
and it's getting quite serious, as far as water next summer.
Yeah,
well, the weather, uh, here, is always a topic of conversation in Texas.
Right.
But, uh, we have wide variations and have warm weather when most people have cold weather,
but we have our share of cold weather as well.
The, uh, temperature this morning was right at freezing.
It didn't stay there,
but it was right at,
Oh, that's, that's different, isn't it?
Um.
We usually have some of our coldest weather toward the, uh, end of January,
but this year it wasn't bad at all.
I guess that's because we had so much rain.
I know my son was telling me about the rain down there.
He said it was just,
and we read in the newspaper, southern part of Texas I flooded out,
Oh, yeah.
and, uh,
Well, my, uh, my sister lives in Houston
and they, uh, the river there was, uh, in the flooding stage near where her son lives,
and that, uh, caused some, uh, concern, of course.
Oh, boy.
They have a, uh, lake cabin
and, uh, their dock was completely under water on the lake.
Oh, my gosh.
So we really had a lot of rain.
Yeah my son in Plano, he lives fairly close to,
there's quite a wash that goes down, uh, through Plano
Right.
and, uh, there's walking trails on both sides, a walking path,
and, uh, when I've gone down to visit him I've gone on that,
but, uh, that was clear full and up to, up to some of the streets, I guess.
It just
Yeah,
we had a lot of flash floods in the area.
We had a few people who ran into, uh, water and a few fatalities, uh, just a few.
Uh-huh.
Not more than ten
but,
That's funny that, uh, we can't have it in moderation instead of having either a drought or having too much.
Well, the, uh, there's an old profane expression about Texas weather,
it's always too damn cold, too damn hot, too damn windy
Yeah,
well, it's, uh, interesting,
uh,
I'm going down to El Paso next week
and, uh, I was wondering what the weather was,
but I imagine if it's that cold in Dallas it,
Well, El Paso won't be cold.
It's not a, doesn't get that cold, I guess, huh?
No,
it's, it's, quite southern
and it's, it's rare to get real cold in, in El Paso.
Uh-huh.
The, uh, you'll be flying in there?
Yes.
Well, uh, take off is, uh, fun from El Paso because you normally,
the way the winds are you take off right toward the mountain, the Rockies
Yes.
and they're towering above you
and so you circle back over the air and then make a circle around and come back over again.
Yeah,
we're kind of used to that here in Utah,
course, there are mountains,
and I fly into Montana a lot
and we have a,
the mountains are, are really, uh, high
and a lot of places we go in to, you just kind of, uh,
it's in the little valley,
but, I, uh, sure hope we,
we really need the moisture.
I hope we can get, uh, get some.
There's supposed to be a storm,
but it split, went down through, uh, northern Arizona and southern Utah
and they're not predicting any for the next, uh, week anyway up here
so,
Well, I noticed on the weather map on, uh, cable network that there was supposed to be a storm front moving into California and on down your way,
but I guess it didn't pan out, huh?
Yeah,
well, that's, that's what the,
above, uh,
some of it went to the south and some to the north up into Montana,
so that just left us,
we got a high pressure system which been sitting in the
Huh.
and, uh, we broke the record for the amount of fog that we've had, uh, you know
Oh, boy.
airport's been shut down, uh, till about noon every day
and then they seed the clouds, or seed the fog to try to to get the airplanes in and out.
Uh-huh.
Huh.
Well, we, uh, had a bad siege last, uh, Christmas a year ago.
We went up to visit my wife's, uh, sister who lives in, uh, Calgary, Alberta, Can,
Well, the topic's about government.
Uh, I'm not altogether sure that that's my best topic. Uh,
I thought it was kind of a strange topic about corruption in the government and uh, how many people are self serving.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
I mean, you I, I think people tend to think that the government is not corrupt And that people aren't self serving.
Uh-huh
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
I mean that's what I would like to think.
Yeah,
I, I, I think that the last, uh, part of that question was particularly interesting, uh, about, uh, uh, uh, can all unethical behavior, or how much unethical behavior can be made illegal uh, because it seems to me that when uh, government or public service of any kind degenerates so much that you have to have so many explicit ethical codes uh, parallel to the legal codes that, uh, we're focusing on the wrong thing.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh,
yeah.
Maybe, maybe that's what is happening.
Maybe so many things have become public with the media over the past, you know, ten to twenty years that, uh, it becomes more evident.
Perhaps things that we didn't think of before and just concentrated on the lawmaking or the results that would be seen in public works or bills that are passed or, you know, et cetera like that
Uh-huh.
and we were just not exposed to the personal lives of these persons.
Uh-huh.
And I couldn't help thinking when that last it was a funny question when that last part of the question came about how many things can we, uh, actually put a legal code on that, uh, how much, uh, should it be our, uh, prerogative to see into the private lives of these people. You know.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Yeah,
that makes sense.
Um.
Because you start prying in people's private lives, you ruin their lives as well as,
That's right.
And sometimes, you know, I don't even know how much of a difference it really makes, you know.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess in some cases, sure we care about what they did in the past
Uh-huh.
but, uh, sometimes, I don't know
Uh-huh.
I think it gets in the way of the better judgment.
I mean just because you did something in the past doesn't mean he's not a good enough person to be a politician.
I, I, I agree with that and, uh, and also that if the results that they're putting out and what they actually seem to be accomplishing by legitimate means is what's, you know, going to the public then, uh, then they'll pay for their private life in their own private conscience.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
That's it.
And, uh you when it becomes public, though, it becomes scandalous.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
The, that's, that's the thing that,
uh, things that you don't know uh, do, do not worm their way around and influence other people or perhaps lead other people astray.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
People could say, oh, they do it,
so, I guess, you know,
but, as soon as things do get public uh, there, there is that terrible concern.
Uh-huh.
Um
So, sometimes I ask myself, what are, uh, people doing that are in the media when somebody, you know, comes up to office,
Uh-huh.
it seems that one of the first thing that's done is to dig up any kind of a thing they can on them and get it all over the headlines.
Uh-huh.
Oh, yeah
I guess it's what sells newspapers, you know.
It's a very low way of living.
Uh-huh.
Uh, so,
and, and, and as far as, uh, you know, myself having any particular personal, uh, knowledge or insight into politics or politicians, it, I'm not terribly involved in it.
Uh-huh
Just in a very cursory way.
Right.
I vote
and I, you know, try to do whatever I can on the little local area,
but, I, I, it just is not one of the things that I have, uh, placed, uh, uh, a, a lot of my particular time and effort into,
Yeah.
so, I, I always feel very outside this kind of, uh, this kind of an issue.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
But, uh,
I am kind of the same way.
I just kind of read the paper follow up on I mean, you know, just keep an eye on what's going on
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Yeah,
right.
but I don't really play an active role in any kind of politics
Yeah,
uh,
Uh, uh-huh.
I'm not, I'm not in there,
I'm not one of those, uh, you know, volunteers that's down at headquarters and whatever, uh, although I admire the people that do that
and they certainly do get inside information
Uh-huh.
and, uh, of course, the better you know a person that might be affiliated with that kind of thing, the more you can trust their, their judgment and their insight.
Right.
Right.
Uh-huh.
But the media insight, as you said,
I just kind of read and kind of be aware
Yeah.
and then, uh, I don't like to make a whole lot of, uh, judgment myself unless things are so absolutely out of whack that, uh,
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
That's a real different topic.
I'm not sure I'm familiar with, with what they mean of invasion of privacy.
I know.
I guess that, I guess you consider just things that every day that would, you would think of about.
See, I'm a college student,
so I can think of lots of things that my roommate does that bother me you know, that I think's like is an invasion of my privacy, stuff like that.
Yeah.
But I think it'd be, it is kind of a tough topic.
Yeah.
I think, personally, you know,
I'm, I used to be a college student ten years ago
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
but uh, now I think an invasion of my privacy is when someone calls me on the telephone and says, Mrs Miller, have we got a deal for you.
Uh-huh.
Oh, golly.
You're like, No, you don't, no.
It's like, how do you know my name,
where did you get my phone number,
and why do you think it's a deal for me?
Uh-huh.
I mean, those people, they'll call you any time of the day or night with, try to solicit
Yeah.
and that's an invasion of my privacy, I think.
They call late,
now, I mean, now there's, I heard that they were going to start calling on Saturdays or
Oh, they do already.
See, that's
I would be so mad
Well,
and I've even had the computer generated calls on Sundays, too.
Really.
Uh-huh.
Huh.
But I do know of a way to get around the computer generated calls.
How?
Don't answer your phone, Hello.
The computer's geared to, to start talking to you on the, on the word Hello.
Really?
Uh-huh.
Huh.
I don't know,
I think like things that, that
I think's like privacy is like, just like, not going through my stuff, like going through, just like my clothes or my drawer, just going through my stuff, basically.
Oh, yeah.
That drives me up a wall.
Are you and your roommate a similar size.
No,
see, we're not,
and, uh.
And she still goes through your clothes?
Yeah,
she'll take all my shirts and stuff,
because she can't wear like my pants
Uh-huh.
but she'll take all my shirts and my blouses and stuff.
Ooh.
Man, I'm just glad she can't wear my pants or my skirts or my dresses, you know.
Oh, yeah.
But still, she'll just take them,
and she won't even think about it,
and then, I'll like see her that day,
and she'll be wearing my clothes,
and I'll be like, you know, I don't like to borrow my clothes out, you know,
I really don't.
So I prefer that you just not go in and get them
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
because she doesn't even ask me.
Stuff like that really
like that's an invasion of my privacy, I feel like.
Oh, yeah,
I agree.
Stuff like that,
when you have your door closed, people just walking in and stuff like that.
Uh-huh.
I was thinking like my mom.
I know this,
she would think this is like an invasion of her privacy, is like going through her purse, like if you ever needed money and stuff
Oh, yeah.
we always just give her her purse, you know,
and she'll get it out or whatever.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
I was trying to think,
I was thinking that's the only thing I could really think of that would really be.
My mom doesn't even like for us to go through her cabinets.
Really.
I mean, we're all grown,
all her kids are grown,
and we have our own families
Uh-huh.
and now if we go through her cabinets she's like, Well, what are you digging for?
Yeah,
get out of my cabinets.
Like, what are you doing?
Don't you have your own house to dig through?
That's great.
Yeah,
so, I guess, privacy is really,
and at the work place, I suppose,
oh, well, actually yes.
I can say definitely, privacy at the work place.
Uh-huh.
I hate it for people to open up my drawer to my desk
See.
Yeah.
because that was, that was where I kept all my stuff,
and I could tell I mean, even if a pen was turned the wrong way.
You could tell,
you know you put your stuff where it's,
Yeah.
That would drive, that would, that
It would drive, it drove me batty for a while.
Really.
Yeah,
well, I worked a second shift
Uh-huh.
and everybody else in my area worked first shift
Uh-huh.
and our shifts overlapped
Uh-huh.
so I would come in,
and there would be people sitting at my desk, working,
and I'm wondering, you know, um, what is this,
it's my vitamins,
I wonder, what is, you know, yeah, what is,
why are they working at my desk,
and can I have it back.
Yeah.
Can I have it back soon, maybe.
Then you start missing stuff,
and.
Oh, yeah,
no mommy is going to take the vitamins,
I'm sorry,
I have
That's okay.
See that would, that would make me really mad,
because you can always tell when someone's touched your stuff,
just because,
I mean, I know I have everything like a certain way
and you know how it looks and everything.
Oh, yeah.
Well, you know how you left it the day before.
Uh-huh. child_talking
That would bother me, definitely.
Oh, yeah,
so, that's, child_talking
yeah,
I agree,
it's, it's pretty tough that way,
and, I know, even like with your school books and papers.
Uh-huh.
Do you miss your papers sometimes?
See,
yeah.
Uh-huh.
You know.
That's the only thing I can really think about being an invasion of privacy, like something every day, though.
Yeah,
well, actually I do know,
and I have used it once
Uh-huh.
and it, it really is an invasion of privacy,
but in the library there's a book that you can find out what people's phone numbers are by where they live, their street address.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
And that,
I mean, I've, I've used it once,
All right,
well do you play any musical instruments or,
No,
I don't play any.
I used to.
Oh well,
I think everybody took piano lessons
so,
Everybody,
sure.
I, I started when I was in, uh, third grade,
and I've, I still play the piano as of today.
Do you?
Yes,
I do.
I started,
I think I was in the fifth grade
and I played it for maybe three months
But, then, again, I was also in, uh, the marching band.
I played the drums,
I played the clarinet,
I played the trumpet.
Wow
Uh, you know, whatever
and so I, I still sing,
and I sing in the choir today
so,
All right
I I enjoy the music,
it gives me an out.
Yeah.
It always sounds like,
for my playing the piano when I was depressed and didn't have anything else to do and there was no one to play with I could always go play with the piano, you know.
True
So, how long did you play?
Only for about three months.
Three months.
Yeah,
me and my brother both took the classes
and we got pretty bored quick
I was going to say, you got as far as the, uh, chop sticks, huh.
Um, well, I could play, uh, the wood chuck song.
Oh, the wood chuck song
And I still can to this date.
And your mother's saying, and although, the money that we spent for those piano lessons this is all we got was the wood chuck song
Yeah.
Yep,
they went out and bought us a piano
and for three months
Oh, bless your heart.
Did you ever, did you ever just bang on it or do anything with it at all.
Oh, yeah,
any time I got bored
Oh, okay,
but I mean, can you play anything on it, other than wood chuck song?
No.
No.
And Jaws,
but I think everybody can.
Okay.
I I, I can still read music if I'm lucky
because I,
if I work real hard I can still barely read the music,
but, see, I played the piano from the third grade all the way through high school,
Yeah.
so
Yeah.
I played uh, concertos and other stuff
but,
I got to the point where I wasn't really reading music, I was memorizing music,
so because of that, I can't read music as well as I used to,
but anyway,
Yeah.
but I enjoy it, though.
I find it to be a good out
and I still enjoy the marching band
and I still enjoy, uh, singing in the choir
so,
Do you sing at choir at your church?
Yes,
I do.
Yeah.
Yes,
I do.
That's,
in fact, that's about the only musical thing that I still do is sing in the choir.
Yeah.
I tried out for choir when I was, think, in the seventh grade
and they wouldn't let me in.
So, I never tried again.
Well, I sing in the choir,
I do know if they want me to or not,
but at least I do sing in it
Yeah,
That's pretty good.
Well,
I never really learned the music or anything.
I never learned,
I got right to where I was figuring out where all the keys were on the piano
and that's about when I quit.
I was at,
I actually went to the University of Texas at one time thinking that I would, be a musician.
I wanted to be a high school band director.
Yeah.
But after one semester of that, I said no, no,
this isn't for me.
enjoy it, but not for profession, no.
Yeah.
And besides that I kind of learned I wasn't really that good
I gave up.
Yeah.
Course, my mom thought I was,
but, uh, you know,
Of course,
parents always do.
Oh, yeah,
so,
They're nice that way.
Yes.
Well, what else can we uh, talk about,
uh,
Uh, well, I don't,
so you listen to kind of church music, gospel?
No,
no,
I, I listen to K V I L.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I listen to the radio,
I like the pop music.
Oh, yeah.
I like people like Neil Diamond and all, all the folks that you're not supposed to like,
but that's who I go for
Oh, yeah,
the jeezer music as I call it.
Oh, the jeezer music.
Yeah.
Oh, okay,
well,
My boss listens to that.
We listen to ninety-seven point nine
and that's his station, so I call it the jeezer music.
Okay,
now what kind of music do you listen to?
Well, I listen to like ninety-seven point one, you know, more,
What what is that?
It's more, uh,
I don't know how to explain it,
kind of pop, you know, rock.
Rock.
Yeah.
Hard rock?
Well, not hard
Not hard rock.
Just kind of,
Not like the eagle.
Huh?
Is that the eagle?
Yeah.
Okay,
I know, I know what the eagle is.
It's not too hard,
it's,
That's not too hard.
You know.
But it's not enough to put you to sleep
True,
true.
Which some of the songs on K V I L can.
Well, course, see, I listen to K V I L for the contests.
I mean
Oh, yeah,
got the bumper sticker, too?
Oh, yes,
oh, yes.
You can't drive a car without bumper sticker
and you know they're going to call you up.
Someday.
Yeah
Well, listen, I've enjoyed talking.
I, I'm sure that the switchboard will probably give us that sign off message very shortly anyway.
Okay.
I appreciate it.
Okay.
Catch you later.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Okay
Okay
Have you done this very long?
Uh, well, yeah,
for the last, uh, couple of months.
Yeah,
that's the same with us.
Yeah.
Well, what kind of car would you buy?
Well, it's kind of hard to say,
uh, because I don't think we're going to buy another car for about three years.
We just bought, uh, a car, uh, last year and then bought one in eighty-nine
Oh, okay.
and, uh,
wait a minute,
we bought one in ninety.
We've got three cars, of all things.
Uh-huh.
So, uh, probably we'll be in at least a midsize, four door sedan.
Okay.
What kind do you have now?
Uh, we have a, a Mazda nine twenty nine and a Ford Crown Victoria and a little two seater C R X.
Oh, okay.
Uh, it's rather difficult to, to project what kind of, uh,
we'd, look, always look into, uh, consumer reports to see what kind of, uh, report, or, uh, repair records that the various cars have
Uh-huh.
and then, of course, we look into the prices.
Yeah.
And, uh, uh, we're not adverse to buying along in the summer when, when the cars could get to be discounted
because we keep, we've begun to keep them, uh, a longer period of time.
Uh, I traded off an eighty-two Oldsmobile for the eighty-nine Mazda.
Oh, uh-huh.
So, uh,
And did you find that you like the foreign cars better than the domestic?
Uh, yeah,
yeah.
We, we've had thirty some odd cars in our married life,
and, uh, we, we've had a good many foreign cars.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, they, they, uh,
I've been extremely,
we've had three Mazdas.
We've been extremely pleased with our Mazdas.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
We've always bought American made cars, mostly Oldsmobiles.
Yeah,
well, we, we've had, uh,
let's see,
we had, uh, we had a, uh,
let me think.
ause We had a fifty-three
and a, uh, we had, uh, two fifty-threes which is a long thirty minute story
Uh, and we had a sixty-five
and then we had this eighty-two.
Uh-huh.
So we, we really can't complain about Oldsmobiles, really.
Yeah,
we've been real pleased with ours.
I think we've had, one, two, three
Yeah.
and most,
we have a Cutlass, we still have a Cutlass Supreme which is like, a seventy-seven.
Uh-huh.
Then we have a Cutlass Sierra
and we've had the ninety-eight.
Uh-huh.
So,
but I don't know,
we'll, we're going to be in the market for a car, probably in the next year
and the financing is always something we consider, you know, the four percent or when they give good financing through the, the motor company.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
But, I don't know what we're going to buy.
I always thought I would like to try a foreign made car,
but, boy, with all the auto workers being laid off, makes me feel guilty
Well
So,
uh, my son over in Shreveport, uh, sold Porsches, Audis, Mazdas and Volkswagons for ten years
and that was one of the deciding factors in getting the Mazdas.
Oh.
Uh, so, uh, the first foreign car that we had was a, a seventy-seven M G, M G B
Oh the,
Was British racing green, with real wire wheels and a hard top and a soft top.
Ooh, boy.
And, uh, I drove it mostly.
I'll bet it was hard to part with that.
And,
Yeah,
it really was.
My husband was in the Air Force
and we got transferred to Okinawa.
Oh.
So, uh, we had to sell it.
which really tore me up
Oh, yeah.
Because, uh, it, it it was great fun.
And then, uh, when we got to Okinawa, well, we bought a second hand,
we, uh, we decided that, uh,
we had this, uh, sixty-five Oldsmobile
and it, and it was just too big,
so we, we sold it to a fellow who was coming back to the States
and we got a little Fiat, uh, and a, and the little, uh, forty horse power Mazda, four door sedan.
Oh.
So what do you think about caring for older folks Dale?
Well, I think, uh the elderly is a really neat population to care for.
Uh-huh.
They've got a lot of special needs
and at the same time, uh, the majority of them don't want to give up the independence that they have.
Right,
very definitely.
And so you've got a real balance to make there.
Uh-huh.
What about you?
Well, I'm thinking about it more in terms of my parents that are starting to get old.
They aren't really that old,
but they are, sort of wearing out.
My mamma is a dialysis patient
Uh-huh.
and she is only about sixty-four,
but she's had some pretty close calls
and my daddy has to drive her to dialysis now
and so she's phasing out ounds like
and, but she's also a very, very, very independent person and doesn't like having having people, uh, not being able to do things for herself when she wants to
Uh-huh.
uh, I know they certainly don't want to be in a nursing home,
but my daddy keeps talking about it.
I don't,
I couldn't possibly, couldn't never see him in a nursing home.
ery faint.
And my grand daddy also doesn't like, wouldn't want to be in a nursing home.
He's ninety, I think right on ninety right now
Oh really.
and he's living by himself.
My grand mamma died a couple of years ago
Oh, okay.
so but, he's, you know,
as long as you can have the families take care of the people, I'd like to see them stay at home.
Yeah,
but it gets hard.
My, my grandmother is in her mid eighties
Uh-huh.
and she's, uh, suffering from, uh, well, uh, progressive Alzheimer's Disease
Uh-huh.
so she doesn't remember anybody
Right.
and, uh, she remembers things,
but they are things back whenever she was real young
Right.
and so, with,
she was living by herself
but my, uh, uncle has moved in with her to take care of her
Uh-huh.
and it's creating a lot of problems.
Right,
especially for your uncle I bet.
Oh yes.
Yes.
Now a friend of mine who was studying social work here in Philadelphia worked for an adult day care program for mostly for patient's with Alzheimer.
Do they have anything like that in Dallas.
In Dallas,
uh, yeah.
I've, I've heard of several things
and they are really neat programs to be able to do if you can link up with them,
but sometimes it's hard to either find the connections to get them in or, uh, to be able to get them there for the day program and pick them up.
Right.
So they are pretty limited.
Right.
Oh, another interesting thing,
another good friend of mine who got her degree in social gerontology well had a job for a while where she went around to to folks and had them, sort of kicked them in the pants to make them take good care of their older relatives. To make sure that they would take care of their responsibilities.
Oh really.
Uh-huh.
I don't think that was mainly with Alzheimer's patients, but just patients, people in general who were not as independent as they use to be.
Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Well, it, it's, it's a really, day care programs are really neat, you know
and if the, if the people are able and and can get up and move and everything like that, that is one of the best things to do,
but I think the hardest thing to do is whenever you've got a person who's mentally very alert and active and their body just hasn't kept up with them
Uh-huh ery faint.
Right.
and I think that's in a way it's more, some, an area where some of the day care, uh, programs have left off
Uh-huh.
because you really kind of have to be a little bit mobile to be able to do those.
Right
to, uh, get there and to participate in the activities.
Right.
Cause I know, there's one not too far from from me here in Dallas.
Uh, and they have ceramics and pottery and needle work and sports.
Right.
Right.
But if your vision is gone and you have arthritis real badly,
That's true.
You can't play those things.
Yeah,
you can't do it.
But you can sing songs and, uh and tell stories about the old times.
Well, that's true.
I guess, you know, you were talking about your,
was it your grand mother that was having Alzheimer uh, being able to tell old stories.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
You can perhaps get a group of people that aren't too far along with Alzheimer talking about the old times and enjoying it themselves that way.
And they love to recollect.
I mean they just, you know,
and they will just go on and on with these stories
and they have such a memory.
Do they like to listen to other people recollect though?
My grandmother doesn't
She, she wants to to tell you about her story over again
so
Right.
which is fine, you know,
so,
Well, that is good because we,
Um, so what do you think?
Um,
I lived, I lived in Sweden for two years.
Uh-huh.
And in Sweden they have socialized medicine.
And so I saw some of the good
and also I saw some of the bad that results from such a program.
Uh-huh.
Uh, some of the, some of the good obviously that nobody has to worry about health care.
Right.
So it's a very, it's a very, uh, comfortable,
I mean our people are very comfortable in the sense that, you know, there's no medical emergency that's going to make you destitute for life.
Right.
Um, the bad was more apparent I think at least for me
because I think it affected people's lives on, in a way that you could see.
One, one thing that I noticed is it's very, very convenient to be alcoholic in Sweden.
Oh, really?
Because it's treated as a disease.
Now I don't know if that necessarily has to be part of socialized medicine,
but, uh, if you're, if you're alcoholic, then you're treated as if you're on disability, long-term disability
and so there was very little incentive for people to get out of that.
Huh.
Also, um, another thing that, that I noticed that was very strange,
I was, uh, I would go down all these, uh, uh,
I remember this one row of houses
and they were, uh, row houses or townhouses, all connected together so it was like lower middle-class housing.
Uh-huh.
Well, it would be lower middle-class housing here.
It's probably middle-class housing there.
Uh-huh.
Um, and there was a taxi driver that lived in one of these
and there was a doctor that lived in one of these.
The one guy was a doctor
and one was a taxi driver,
and so their, their incomes were about the same.
Huh.
Whereas here, there is a great incentive to be a doctor because there's a great financial reward.
Right.
And that, that didn't exist in Sweden.
Right.
And, uh, overall I their, their health care suffered fair amount from just the fact that the doctor salaries were lower
and it was, it was less professional
and it was treated more, like a, like a taxi driver type job, then a, then a doctor type job.
Yeah.
that is, uh, that is something I've heard.
Uh, I had a friend, uh, that I worked with that was from Sweden
and that was, uh,
probably the, the major concern I have is that, you know, we are leading in the technology realm of, of medicine just because it is such a great incentive to, to get into, uh, the medical field,
but at the same time it's real hard.
I mean my husband works for a company that provides insurance
and so, you know, I'm real, you know,
it's like well, you know, you know,
there's got to be better ways, you know, to do some things
but, you know, I hate to, uh,
the, the competition, in a lot of ways is, is wonderful just because you can choose your doctor
and, and, uh, they have to compete to be, to be good and to be knowledgeable.
But at the same time, there's a, you know, they're regulating themselves
and, and the hospitals are charging just enormous amounts for products that they don't have to pay very much for.
My, I have a brother who's a vet
and for something that he can get, you know, wholesale
and I'm sure they can get a lot cheaper because they, they, hospitals buy in such a bulk rate, um
Right.
you know, they could charge you twenty dollars for a dollar fifty item
and that's ridiculous.
And I don't think that is, that is, uh, abnormal in any means to be doing things like that.
And,
You don't think it's abnormal?
I don't think it's abnormal for hospitals to be doing that at all
Oh, I see.
You're not saying it's right,
you're just saying it's common.
yeah.
And so it's, I think, to me I think, uh, something that's going to help our medical, uh, arena is for, um,
and I don't know how to, I don't know how to do this
but I think people are too lawsuit happy.
And I mean things will happen
and, and you've got to, uh, keep up
or you've got to realize that, you know, it is just men or women that are, that are making, um, decisions
and they will make mistakes
and you know, if people, you know,
there are some people that I'm sure make mistakes because they just don't keep on top of it,
but there are other things that just happen that you can't, you know, you can't say, you know, well, if you had just done this, you know, things would have done differently,
and, um, I don't know.
I, I think the fact that malpractice has gone up I think has raised our prices just dramatically. Um, in the, in the last number of years
Yes.
and I think that's something that if, if they could work on the cause of that and,
it's, uh,
I'll start off here.
Uh, I don't know.
I get, probably, most of my information either from the newspaper or from C N N.
Uh, I like C N N because it, uh, you know, repeats it,
well HEADLINE NEWS repeats every half hour
but it makes it really convenient cause I keep a rather hectic schedule
Right,
yeah.
and, uh,
but the newspaper provides a little bit of depth that you can't really get from,
Yeah.
I, I think I'd agree.
A, a similar method of getting the news with me too.
It's, uh, uh, C N N has been a welcome addition to the T V scene here in the, last, uh, number of years.
Uh, prior to cable, you know, you didn't get much news off of normal, uh, television broadcasts.
Right.
Uh, just usually pretty local in, in nature
and, and I like, uh, C N N because you get some world, world events too uh, which is not too common on, on the other format, newspapers, and so forth.
Uh-huh.
Right.
Yeah.
I know, the,
my only major objection is that, uh, I don't think American media spends enough, uh, attention on, on our closest neighbors like Mexico and Canada.
Uh,
That, that's true, you know.
You hardly ever see, uh, headline articles about the, uh, either the economics or, or other news events going on in either of those countries.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Uh, whereas if you pick up a, a European paper, you know, uh, it, all the surrounding countries, Soviet Union, and everything has, uh, major news, uh, articles in them.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, Canada has gone through a lot of problems now with, with Quebec and, and everything
and, uh, it's amazing that,
you know, I, I listen to D C area and the WASHINGTON POST, you know,
I mean the most they'll give it is the back of the A section.
Yeah.
Uh, you know.
I'm, I'm currently living in Dallas
and it, it won't even give it the back section <laughter>.
You just, never see, you just never see anything about it,
uh, which is a shame because you go to other countries, uh,
and, and they carry quite a bit about the U S on the other hand.
And if you go up to, uh, Canada, those people are usually pretty, uh, familiar with the politics going on and and the news U S
Uh-huh.
and we're pretty, uh, limited in our understanding of, of leaders up in Canada or Mexico.
Yeah,
definitely.
You just don't know what's going on.
Yeah.
I'd, I,
every once in awhile, I have to travel overseas
and lately I've taken the, taken a little shortwave radio, uh, around and picking up the B B C
and it's sort of like, uh, a C N N too.
You you can tune into some stations
Uh-huh.
and you get some, like thirty minute summaries of, of news events.
Uh, I occasionally get into some of the middle eastern, uh, area
and that's the only way you can tell what's going on at all <laughter>.
There's not much in the way of television in some of those places.
Right.
Uh, but that's a good point about, about the neighboring countries.
I hadn't really thought about it
but I guess you don't think about it cause you don't hear it.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I, uh, spent this past summer up in Canada.
Uh, well part of it, touring.
And, uh, you know, I was amazed cause I'd pick up a local paper and I'd read about all of these, you know, really interesting things going on.
There's some serious talk about whether there's actually going to be a, a Canada, you know, in the next five years. You know, because of the problems with Quebec
Yeah.
and I had never heard any of that before.
Yeah,
you know, there was, a, a,
what is it called,
is it Meech Lake Accord?
Uh-huh.
Or, or, that's just something, uh, I'd say ninety percent of the people here would never have heard of
and I think that I heard of it about the first time when I was up in Calgary a couple of years ago and, you know, picked up a, a paper and started reading a little bit more detail about it.
And, and came
it was a big thing going on there
and I came back here
and nothing in the papers.
Right,
right.
I didn't see a thing about it.
So it's, uh, we've got a long ways to go, I guess.
It's improved.
And like I say, with C N N and, and, uh, the cable news.
Even, even there's, uh, uh,
it's it's semireligious in some respects.
But what is it?
It's, uh, I mean it's news is not, not that way,
uh, oh, I'm trying to think of the channel.
The, the CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR.
Oh, yeah.
Uh, I, it surprised me.
I've caught it a few times
and they, they do some pretty good news.
Uh, seemingly unbiased news broadcasts.
Uh uh, the, the title of the network is sort of surprising.
Uh-huh.
You'd think it would carry mostly religious
but it, it doesn't seem to.
So I'll flip through and listen to it once in awhile too, uh, and catch something maybe a little different than, than C N N might be covering.
Uh, some more interest type topics in, in other countries.
But it's kind of world, world, uh, network too.
Yeah.
Uh, I, I guess I've never seen the T V show.
I used to get the, uh,
A, uh, Golden Retriever.
Ooh, that's one of my favorite kinds of dogs.
Yeah.
Is it really?
How long have you had it?
We've had him for,
let's see, he just had his fourth birthday.
Fourth birthday.
Yeah,
and we got him when he was about eight weeks old
and, uh, he's pretty okay,
we like him.
Does he shed a lot?
He does.
That's the one thing we don't like about him.
In fact, we threaten him in the summertime that we might just shave all of his hair off.
He'd probably look pretty funny if we did that.
How much does he weigh now?
He, actually, he just went to the vet yesterday to get his shots and everything,
and they put him on the scale
and he's up to ninety four now.
Oh.
But he's not a real, he's not a real tall, uh, dog for a Golden Retriever.
He's kind of stocky, shorter and stockier.
Um.
But,
Is he good with family?
He is.
It's, uh, just me and my wife
and, uh, he's kind of our temporary substitute for having kids.
We treat him like our kid right now so he's spoiled rotten.
Yeah,
I can understand that
Because I,
Get away with that a little bit more with pets than you can with kids
Uh-huh.
How about you?
Well, we have a cat who's also about four years old.
Oh.
And he's our spoiled child right now, too
Uh-huh.
And he also sheds a lot.
Yeah.
But, we, uh, we hope to get a Golden Retriever someday.
But we figure we'll get the kids and then the, the dog
That's probably a good idea.
They're good though.
Uh, have you ever had a Retriever before?
No,
but my husband had one when he was growing up.
Because I, I find that they're good around other animals like cats and other dogs.
They don't tend to get real jealous or territorial.
They like to play.
Um.
Especially with the kids.
They love to play with kids.
Is, is your dog an inside and outdoors?
No,
he's pretty much an inside dog.
Um.
He stays in.
We, we're kind of in a, not a real busy neighborhood, but more so than I'd want him to be out too much
and he doesn't like it if we tie him outside.
Oh, really?
He's really a wimp.
And when it comes to being alone,
uh, now if you give him the freedom to walk around and go wherever he wants, he likes that,
but he does not like to be tied outside.
He'll, he'll just bark and bark and bark.
Um, when he gets outside, does, in, does he run away and then eventually come back?
No,
he's, uh, taken to the training pretty well
and, uh, he knows where our yard is
and we have a pretty small yard,
but he seems to know the boundaries.
Um.
And he usually is good about staying within them,
although our next door neighbors have a dog, too
and, uh, she, she is good friends with my dog.
Oh, yeah?
And so he often gets to smelling her scent and will go over there to sniff around and stuff
but, he's pretty good.
He stays out of the street
and, uh, if I catch him I call him
and he comes back.
So he, he's pretty good about taking to commands and and things.
Um.
Did you bring him to a doggy obedience school or just train him on your own
No
we never did.
and,
I, I trained him on my own
and, uh, this is the first dog I've had all my own as an adult.
Uh-huh.
We've had kid, or we've had dogs when I was a kid,
but this, this is the first one that I, uh, took in,
so I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get it all right the first time,
but, uh, he, he seems to have picked it up pretty well.
I never really to hit him or anything.
Uh-huh.
Just, you know firm tone of voice and those sorts of things.
Huh.
Really?
I, I see other people out there
and they hit their dogs and try to,
and, and those horrible collars that they put on them with invisible fencing,
least I,
Invisible what?
Invisible fencing,
have you heard of that?
No,
what is that?
It's, uh, it's a system you can put in your yard where you bury these little, uh, transducers or emitters in your yard at the perimeter
Oh.
and then they wear a collar with a special little attachment on it
and if they get too close to that perimeter, it it zaps them.
Oh.
Boy.
Yeah
I'd be afraid to walk around if I was that dog
Yeah,
well, a friend of mine at work here said that he tried it with his dog
and he wanted to see what he was subjecting his dog to
so he held on to the collar
and he walked out to the perimeter.
He said it was a good jolt.
Oh, really?
Yeah,
and so, I, I don't take too well to, to those sorts of training techniques.
Um.
I don't think they're always necessary.
If you put enough patience into,
Yeah,
just be consistent and diligent with it
Uh-huh.
and, um,
It's, uh, is your cat an indoor cat or an outdoor cat?
Yeah
he's indoor and all declawed because I know the, uh, average life span of an outdoor cat is eighteen months.
Somebody just told me that
Yeah.
because of the leukemia?
Yeah,
that and also just, uh, getting hit, I guess, or getting beat up.
And the average life span of an indoor cat is eighteen years
Wow.
So,
Quite a difference.
Yeah.
What, uh, what kind of climate do you have?
Well, uh, it's, we just moved recently
so now we're in the, uh, Dallas area
and it's very very nice
Oh.
and,
The only experience I have,
I don't have any children
but I've, uh, I was a baby-sitter in high school.
And then, just recently, after we were married, I baby-sat for a dentist while she worked.
And I just, uh ...
<talking> Yeah.
That's the only thing I've ever done also, is baby-sit.
Is it? ery faint.
But, uh, I've heard people that I work with talk about, you know, child care.
Especially, I guess it's even harder on single mothers.
Oh, yeah.
The expense.
Yeah.
Having to pick up the kid by, you know, six o'clock
or it's five dollars for every minute you're late. And stuff like that
Uh-huh.
Which is understandable.
I mean, these people can't, you know, stay there till eight o'clock because somebody has to work late
Just sit around
That that's true.
but
See the lady I did it for,
that's why she picked me is because I would go to her house so she wouldn't have to get her little girl up.
So she could sleep in.
And, uh, then she could be at home
and then I'd bring her to my house for a couple of hours if I wanted too or whatever.
But, uh, she paid, I think it was two or, I think it was about two fifty, three dollars a hour
and by the time I paid taxes on it, it, I was getting like eighty cents
and that wasn't counting food or gas or anything.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
It's hardly worth your time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's pretty bad.
The only time I baby-sat was in high school
and it, you know,
of course you don't
I didn't pay taxes on that,
so.
Right.
It was easy, you know, go over to some, uh,
it was these people that lived in our neighborhood
and I'd just go over there.
Every Thursday night, they went to the theater.
They had permanent tickets
and they'd give me,
it was supposed to be two dollars an hour for two kids,
but they would usually give me like five dollars more at the end of the night.
Oh, wow.
And, I mean, they'd, you know,
it was great.
I'd go over there
and there would be like, uh, you know, there's, we have these videos over here.
Watch, whatever you want.
And there's some Oreos in the, in the cupboard.
And there's some Coke
and you know, just help yourself to anything.
So it was, it was, you know, the best,
Wow.
that was a long time ago
and that was only for a few years.
Just once a week.
Yeah.
But I don't know.
I think people that treat their baby-sitters like that get a lot better baby-sitters.
Oh, yeah.
That's true.
And they stick around for longer.
Because I mean after I figured out I was getting eighty cents an hour, I said bag it.
And I quit you know.
Yeah.
I was just like but I'm wasting my time.
Yeah.
I really liked the little girl and everything
but I thought ...
She does take up,
and they do take up a lot of your time.
That ...
Yeah.
Yeah,
I ...
They're very demanding
Uh-huh.
Well, and she was really spoiled.
They didn't make her eat anything she didn't want or anything.
So, basically, they fed her cookies for breakfast and lunch.
And the mom was a dentist
and I was just like, we've got to quit this.
And she's like no I don't want her to starve.
But I don't want to make her eat something she doesn't want to eat
Oh, shoot.
My mom would be like, uh eat it or don't eat anything.
Eat this or <laughter>.
That's right.
So, I can see the concerns on what different people want.
Yeah.
Because some,
I mean, you know, if I was setting up a daycare, there would be so many needs you would have to customize your service to.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Cause some parents won't put up anything. Where others would.
I think,
yeah,
I think the best way to go would just be to, to be able to do it out of your basement.
Uh-huh.
And just have like at the most, like ten kids.
And all from maybe people that you know type of thing.
No.
Instead of trying actually to set up a daycare where you don't know the people coming in and ...
That's true.
I, I'd love to do it.
But I just don't trust people now.
There's too many lawsuits.
Yeah.
I just, I think it's a bigger risk than ...
More than what it's worth?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It would scare me.
With,
I don't know,
cause I'm sure some of them have good reason to sue
but I think a lot of them are just, you know, they're negligent
and they get happy about money
and they just want to sue you.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
That's,
yeah,
exactly.
When you have like a Kindercare or something set up and when they get greedy or whatever, that's when they have maybe one assistant to twenty kids or something
Uh-huh.
Oh, yeah.
And that's just, you know,
you can't watch that many little kids getting into things at one time
That's impossible.
You know, you never know what they're going to get into.
I have a girlfriend that works at a daycare
and she takes her little girl with her
and, I mean, she told me about half the people that they hire
and half of them she'd like to turn them into the state
And that's the people that are working there, you know.
And then she would like to turn in half of the parents that drop their kids off because of the condition the kids are in, you know.
Oh, that's horrible.
Like they'll be in the same clothes they were the day before, the same diaper.
Huh.
You know, just awful things.
And so I don't know.
I don't have kids
but I always think man I just don't know if I could trust anybody.
I mean, you just don't know.
Yeah.
That's
yeah,
that's a hard thing about it.
If, I mean, I I can't foresee myself getting married
but if, you know, if I ever wanted to have a kid, how could I work.
I mean, I don't think I could trust somebody with my kid either.
Unless it was a friend that, you know, did it in ounds like an airplane their house that I knew well.
Oh, yeah.
That's true.
Yeah.
I just, I couldn't do it I don't think.
It would just rip me apart, I think
I don't know.
Yeah.
Just not knowing.
Yeah,
just besides the fact that, you know, your, when your child gets out of school at three o'clock and then has to wait.
What do you usually wear to,
Well, let's see.
It turns out that, uh,
I work at TEKTRONIX
and it's a very, uh, low key place as far as dress goes.
Uh-huh.
You just wear, uh,
let's see.
When I first came here, I wore suits
but after a while I got, uh, found out that that wasn't all that important.
I'm an engineer.
Oh, I see.
And, uh, so, I get to wear just, uh, how shall I say it, uh, walking shoes as opposed to dress shoes and well walking, how shall I say it, kind of like Avia, uh, walking shoes, uh,
Uh-huh.
Well, that's nice comfortable stuff.
Yes.
Open shirt, open at the neck, you know, no tie.
Wow.
And, uh, just, uh, reasonable looking, how shall I say it, uh, sports clothes or some guys wear, some people even wear Levis.
Wow.
That's nice.
Now, being from Philadelphia, I don't expect your dress code to be quite that relaxed, right?
Well actually right now I'm a full time college student
so my dress code is very, very (( )).
Oh, okay.
Yeah,
I usually wear jeans and stuff to classes or shorts in the summertime.
But over the summers I've had a job, internships with the newspaper.
Uh-huh.
And that's so,
generally then I dress, you know, nicer.
Usually nice summer slacks or more, sometimes skirts, stuff like that.
So, then it's still, you know, the emphasis is on comfort a lot because it's a lot of walking and coming out of office
but you still have to have a professional imagine kind of thing. To go out to meet people and interview people and stuff like that
Yes.
so.
Yeah,
well I, uh, I just recently applied for a different job in the company here
and so I decided well I'd wear a suit.
Oh, really.
Uh-huh.
And it, it was very interesting,
uh, like I said, most of the people at, at this company don't wear suits.
Uh, most of the engineers and technical people are just very casual, almost the same clothes that, that you'd wear to school.
Wow.
That must be nice atmosphere then.
Well, it has been.
Although the new president and C E O of the company is from a much more formal eastern, uh, background.
Oh.
And so the result is that, uh,
so anyway I wore this suit
and I went over to, uh, uh, to one of the buildings that has a lot more of the financial people in it
Uh-huh.
and it, and I, I was almost converted because, uh, the effect of that suit on the way people reacted and responded to me as opposed to the,
uh, just to kind of,
how shall I say it,
they know you're there
but they don't
uh, you don't,
there's no notice at all.
But when I wore a suit that day, uh, it was obvious that people didn't know whether I was a worker bee or a manager.
Wow.
So people, uh, how shall I say it, made a, made much more effort to notice you, acknowledge your presence, say hello and, uh, things like that,
so.
That's interesting.
It's like a mini, little study there
Yeah.
That's really interesting.
And so this dress for success thing, I think is, uh,
by and large I've, I'm kind of, uh, convinced that, uh, by that, just that one, uh, uh, experience and then having talked to several other people that, that, uh, unless you're in a, an environment where they're going to make fun of, of, of better clothes, that better clothes always pay off.
Right.
Huh.
That's interesting.
Doesn't mean they have to be, uh,
how shall I say it,
they don't have to be the, the most, uh, the absolute best
Uh-huh.
but, uh, a little dressing a little bit above the standard, I think, would, uh, pay off
so I'm in the process of telling my wife we got to go shopping for clothes again.
<Laughter> That's neat,
that's neat
And, uh, I, I don't know,
now I, I know eastern,
now the other thing we do here, of course, is a single, not quite a single climate.
We have, uh, we do have some snow in the wintertime
and it can be quite warm in the summertime.
Uh-huh.
Not hot like, uh,
I lived in the midwest for a while.
Oh.
And I know that, uh, you know, it can be freezing cold in the wintertime, and hot and, uh, sticky in the summertime.
Uh-huh.
We don't have that much.
It's, uh, it's a very mild climate.
Oh, well that's nice.
That's good for the clothes budget, I would imagine.
Yes,
it is.
Because here, gosh, we had, uh,
the winter hasn't been bad this winter.
It's, it it's only snowed maybe once or twice
but it's been cold.
Low twenties, let's say,
and then the summer gets up to eighties, nineties
so,
You interested in woodworking?
Yeah.
Actually, I, uh, I guess I am
Um, it just seems kind of funny that this is a topic of discussion.
Uh, I do, uh, some, uh, woodworking myself
Uh, in fact, I'm in the middle of a project right now making a bed for my son.
Um. What kind of
It's, uh,  It's, uh, it's, uh, plywood, uh, face, I guess.
pine?
But I cut it out in the shape of a crayon box
and then I painted, uh, about eight different, uh, colors, uh, you know,
the crayons that are sticking up, it will be the headboard
Uh-huh.
I guess he's young.
and then,
yes
He's about five and a half years old.
Oh, he'll be delighted.
Oh, yeah.
Uh-huh.
Now I just have to finish it though.
I got, uh, it got delayed for a little bit and, uh, because of work
and now, uh, I've got to jump back in and finish the,
because I've got it all cut out,
it's all, uh,
I've done most of the coloring
but I've got to go a second layer with the yellow.
Did you do it with a jigsaw
or do you have powered, you know, a,
Uh, yeah.
Uh, I did, uh, jigsaw, uh, and the, uh, regular straight saw for some of it.
Um.
So yeah.
to do the, uh, the turn cut.
Uh, how about yourself?
Well I'm, I am interested in woodworking.
I don't have lots of tools.
Our local schools have adult education in the evening
Oh.
uh, and I use their tools and, some of their guidance.
I'm an artist.
Oh, okay.
And I'm very handy
and, you know, if I touch it, it turns into something <laughter> us-, usually.
That's great.
What, what type of art do you focus on?
I have a Master's degree
and, and my projects had to do with acrylic painting,
but I'm really interested in the crafts.
Huh.
I make stain glass.
I've done some silver jewelry making
and I kind of,
once I get you know, really pretty good at something, I want to try something else
Yeah.
Kind of jack of all trades, master of none.
Yeah,
well no,
actually, I get good enough to sell it or have people say oh wow,
you didn't buy it,
you made it.
That's great!
And then I, it's like well the thrill is gone
so let's do something else.
Right.
You want to, uh, explore a new field
or, or,
Well, yeah,
I, I'm signed up for a class in pottery making because I've never tried that yet
Huh. So you have a M F A in, in what division of art?
but,
Well, I, I actually have a Masters of art
and it's in art education.
Oh, okay.
So, I'm a licensed teacher
but jobs being what they are, I substitute teach
Yeah.
and that way I have time for my kids too.
And I've been fortunate that I can afford to work part-time.
I don't know how long that's going to last
Oh, yeah.
And, uh, they're cutting back,
so I don't go in all that often
but I've been real interested in some of those cute country, country kind of things.
Uh, I see stuff in craft galleries for five hundred dollars
and I say, oh no
and , and I go
and I make it.
Yeah.
That's how I started jewelry making.
I, I love to cook.
Oh, that's great.
And I saw a silver necklace that had these little teeny weeny silver spatulas and, and, and knife and, and a fork and all kinds of stuff
and I went
and I signed up for class because then again, you get, you know, get someone to guide you
and you get the tools you don't feel like buying.
Exactly.
And I made a necklace that I saw in a gallery for three hundred twenty dollars
It took me a lot of time
but  it didn't,
Oh, yeah.
but if it cost me twenty dollars, you know,
and then I,
And your time,
then you're that much farther ahead
Yeah.
Then I saw a, one of these country looking wood watermelons.
It was a solid watermelon with a wedge cut out of it.
Right.
I've seen them
and then the watermelon, the red with the, with the seeds painted in
and,
Oh, yeah.
Uh-huh.
That's neat.
I went there,
we have Home Depot out here.
I don't know if you've heard of it.
I went
and I got two six foot inch thick boards turned into a watermelon.
Yes.
We have one.
I had to cut into slabs and build up this big square and turn it on the lath
and cutting that wedge out was no joke
Huh.
Oh, I'm, I'm sure.
We did it on a, I had a, uh, I did it through Adult Ed again.
A band saw?
What?
I did it through Adult Ed again.
Uh-huh.
And the teacher was one of these negative people,
oh that's dangerous,
we can't do that,
we just can't do that.
And I'm going well how about this way?
I, I want to do that,
that was the plan here
Right.
So we did get the wedge cut out by building some kind of a cradle for it.
A cradle for it.
Yeah,
so you can steady it
and then, you used a handsaw or a backsaw?
Well, it, the instructions in the book I had said use a coping saw
but there's no coping saw big enough to, for a fourteen inch wide watermelon <laughter> that
Right,
right.
and he wanted me to do it by hand with a regular saw.
I said I'm not that steady,
it's not going to happen.
Yeah.
So we built a cradle for it
and we got once it was turned, we got one one cut out on the table saw, on the radial saw,
by getting the other one out without the slice now flying in your face was something you had to think about
Right.
So,
Now did you cut a quarter wedge in this?
Uh, I'd say it's about an eighth.
You know
Well, I, I'm envisioning, uh, uh, a a watermelon like a log
and then, uh, what I've seen of this kind before is you have the, uh, the, uh,
it's, uh,
if you're looking at adding on you have,
Up here in Rochester, uh, we're the second cleanest metropolitan city as far as air pollution.
I think Grand Rapids was number one.
Uh, we really don't have too much of a problem as far as, uh, industry since we're pretty technologically based as far as our industry in the city here.
But we do have the same problem a lot of other areas up here in the northeast have
and that is the effects of acid rain. coming basically from coal plants in Ohio and Illinois and Indiana.
Right.
Well, that's true.
Actually down here we don't have a big problem with, uh, with air pollution.
Mainly because we don't have anybody to to either side of us.
Uh, which helps out a lot as far as that goes.
I wouldn't even necessarily thought of that except when I lived up in Boston and up in, uh, you know,
debates would come up up there in Massachusetts and, you know, in that area over, uh, air pollution
and their attitude's, basically, well, prevailing ins, winds are to the east
so why should we have to worry.
Yeah.
I've, I've, uh, was in Los Angeles once
and that was quite a difference as far as pollution goes.
I mean you couldn't really see that much
Every once in a while we have these air inversions, the weather inversions
Oh, yes
nothing,
and then it gets hazy around here
but they're really,
we don't have a big problem with it.
I think that, uh, what most of the people here in New York state are going after right now is,
it's, it's the, uh, ongoing acid rain problem.
Especially out in the, uh, uh, Adirondack areas where, you know, the lakes are becoming, uh, changing the acidity of the lakes
and we're having problems now because the fish are dying and certain acidic loving plants, uh, or alkaline liking plants are not lasting anymore because the soil levels, the p H is changing as this acid rain continues to fall.
Right.
And I know that there's been battles over the states up here.
Uh, you know, Governor Mario going after, you know, governors of Ohio and and Indiana to fix what's going on down there.
I remember when I was in Florida,
the only problem was that it seemed like it may,
it wasn't really pollution, just the steamy weather <laughter>.
Oh absolutely,
yeah,
just muggy.
So, yes
I think,
yeah,
I think you're right.
Our most pollute substance down here is just water.
But I I, I, I think, you know, the biggest causes even then a lot of times are, uh, uh, like when I was up in Boston just all the cars. You know, just all over the place.
Yeah
it,
You just got a lot of, you know, a lot of pollution from those
and, uh, you know, if you don't have a wind, it sticks around.
Oh, yeah.
I, you know, I was in Boston once
and I remembered seeing some of these things coming through at rush hour, even with the Tee.
Uh, just this, it looked like billions of cars massing
Absolutely.
and if they sit there and then there's nowhere for the air to go.
I mean, yeah, that's what's in, you know, Los Angeles is,
I think that's biggest problem
because when I was in Los Angeles for a time, it's all, you know, from Los Angeles to San Diego it's like all city.
Right.
And there's really, there's nowhere for this to be absorbed, really.
Uh, tree planting sometimes can handle, you know, stopping some of the air pollution and that and help
but if you have nowhere to do anything.
That's, that's very true.
Uh, you know, of course then when, when you're not recycling, you've got these incendiary plants and stuff, that can give you some pretty disgusting stuff going up in the atmosphere.
But I, you know, you've got, you've got the industry,
you've got that,
and you got the cars.
I think the cars are where, where it's at right now as far as pollution goes, air pollution I mean.
Yeah.
I, you know, Florida doesn't seem to be, at least maybe Miami,
but I, I, uh, you know,
Fort Lauderdale I, I don't know what the big industries are down there, uh,
but, you know, up here we have Kodak
Right.
and that's the worst polluter.
They put, uh, uh,
you can smell ether in the air sometimes
It keeps the neighborhoods happy I guess.
I guess so.
Uh, cause they clean the, uh, the lenses for cameras
and they, they make film here
and they're the worst offender
but it's, you know, it's under so much control.
You know, sulphur dioxide is the big emittant from them
but that's really getting under control now.
Right.
I, you know, I don't know in air what they do.
Uh, I, I haven't run across any major pollutants down there that I've, I've really seen a lot of, you know, about.
Uh, I, I know I've seen like, uh,
my grandparents live in Corpus Christi, Texas
and I know they've, there's a lot of refineries down there
and that, that's some pretty potent stuff they put up in the air.
I, but I don't know how, uh, you know,
there's a difference in what you can smell and what you, uh, you know, what's bad.
Be interesting to see when, as Mexico develops industrially whether, you know, without,