An Interview With Jon Cattapan
Authors: Dauber Christine 
Published: October 2020

In The City Submerged the striking narratives of Cattapan's earlier Melbourne paintings are fragmented and set adrift, becoming tiny shards of archaeological evidence with no clear solution, no beginning, middle or end. Luminous blue green surfaces dissolve into pools of submarine light in these paintings; here there is no grounding in shadows, or alley-ways, only the flickering distortions of looking into water, whose depth is unknowable. The movement in the painting is continuous as a work in a state of flux, and within and across its shiny surfaces.
Deborah Clarke "The Lost World a Tale of Two Cities"

Dauber: As you are aware the theme for this edition of M/C reviews is COLOUR. When this theme was chosen your name and your paintings immediately sprang to mind. With regard to Australian painting today one could equate the name Cattapan with two things colour and the modern city or perhaps the city as a text for modernity? Whilst suggesting that your use of colour, and your conception of the city are dualities, there is a paradoxical quality about your use of colour. Would it be fair to say that the luxurious quality of the colour; "the luminous blue green surfaces, these pools of submarine light" invest your paintings with a quality of the magical or phantasmagorical?

Cattapan: From about 1986 I became increasingly interested in nocturnal light and how to represent it. My cities are always places that occupy that nocturnal space. I see the quality of those blue -green works of mine as being very fugitive. The colouration is meant to evoke a kind of drifting. I've always been interested in Surrealism and in my own works there was for a time a kind of dream - tableau that the actions unfolded upon, but in particular it was the writings of louis Aragon that struck a chord for me. In his book 'The Paris Peasant' he speaks of drifting around Paris by night and coming across its urban markers as though they were magical hallucinations. I guess in part I tried to transpose those sentiments into a colour sense. Those deep blues and greens offer a sense of that drifting - of the fugitive - of the twilight - of being there but not there.

Dauber: In 1989 you are quoted as saying that your work was about two things "a search for your own artistic identity" and " making a statement on the "human urban condition". However in these depictions of the city you seemed more concerned to elucidate the destructive elements of urban dwelling, alienation, isolation and impotence. As "notes" or as a "visual diary" were these works perhaps more intensely personal?

Cattapan: During the late eighties and early nineties I made a lot of my work on paper. Almost all of it is diaristic in the sense that each drawing marks an impression of a place or time or mood - they are strongly autobiographical and yet they also mark the mood of the times and of course of urban situations.

Dauber: You have lived and worked in some of the great cities of the world. In light of the recent catastrophic events in New York to figure the city as lost, or drowned, would now seem to be prophetic.

In the City Submerged series of paintings you have created a great sense of ambiguity through a sense of play with the term "submerged". Like the lost city of Atlantis, your metaphorical blue-green city is at once covered, submerged and unknowable. Yet, your paintings simultaneously uncover the spectacle of the modern city. This seems to signify a re-enchantment with the city, which could perhaps be falsely interpreted as being opposed to your earlier paintings?

Cattapan: You see the thing that's interesting about painting is that paradoxes over a longer period of time become part of the continuity of process. There has always been this love-hate representation in my work. So at times these cities of mine have looked almost apocalyptic and at other times they figure largely as spectacles of competing information (I'm thinking here of the 'datascapes' from '92 onwards). For the last couple of years I've moved back into narrative mode as a counterpoint - demonstrations, protest, sundry calamities - these too are part of our cities. They are weird barometers for our times.

Jon Cattapan, detail from Veil (Big Economy Hype) 1994
Collection: Wollongong City Gallery

Dauber: Could you tell us something of the way in which you create these paintings? You have utilized both the technology of the computer, and the more artistic concepts of the "brush" and "a la main".

Cattapan: The large cityscape/datascape paintings are created by scanning photographs of various places to create a generic city. This is an important point - my cities are like electronic collages and these become my working drawings. The paintings always start as an abstract space where the main thing is colour and light. Over the top of this expressive underlay I paint carefully reproduced marks that from a distance give the impression of a city by night - always from a panoptic view. There is something curious in the translation, in that the hand made mark becomes highly subjective as an interpretive tool, and therefore much as I might try to simply replicate the collage, what results is a painterly colouration and discrete mark-making process of overlays that speaks about painting itself.

Dauber: Your paintings are full of light - the winking lights of the city at night and the auratic light which comes from some underground source. It has been suggested that your paintings create a virtual reality and that the light which is shed is that of the pixel. Does this somehow situate the metropolis and within a global context, or does it elaborate the complexities of the interconnectedness of cities and the people within them? Could you elaborate this point?

Cattapan: There is no doubt in my mind that the urban condition is at once local and global. The works are a response to an information saturated world and they seek to represent that, but they also tell stories of local environment, albeit in a sometimes very abstract way. Over the last couple of years the more narratively inclined works of city gatherings demonstrate again after a long absence my need to tell local stories - but they become global. These groupings of figures set against dissolving cityscapes now have a sad ring to them.

Jon Cattapan, detail from Dissolve (there but not there) 1991
Dauber: Yes, the blue-green paintings are soft and seductive, but they also have an unavoidable edge of pathos which seems inherent in the colour blue, could you tell us something of the red paintings which seem to signal a change in mood or experience?

Cattapan: Those deeply saturated works came directly out of the experience of going to India in 1996. Whereas blue is deeply reflective, red for me is about life energy.

The 'red' works actually began whilst I was in India as a group of watercolours that I made in collaboration with the Indian artist, Surendran Nair.

Dauber: This is very interesting because most people would associate energy and life with the concept of the city yet in many ways your blue paintings convey a sense of stillness, which I believe gives them their amazing reflective quality. Your work has often been compared with that of Whistler. Like you, Whistler had a fascination with the city which conveyed its mythic qualities. Many artists have endeavored to convey a lived experience of the city and its relationship with modernity. As "watchers" or spectators they have been concerned to transmit their experience of the city, its colour, and its diversity as a counterpoint to the rationality of the "concept city" which was supposedly ultimately manageable. The flanneur combined the passionate wonder of childhood with the analytic sophistication of the man of the world as he read the signs and impressions of "the outward show of life" of the city. Whilst you too, could be considered to be the 'flanneur", your work seems to lack this "outward show of life", the hustle and bustle of the city, the crowded plaza's, the presence of people, the "colour of the city"?

Cattapan: You've ended on an interesting note and I think the best way to respond is to speak of a specific experience. When I went to live in New York at the end of 1989 I was convinced that by moving to a much larger urban environment I would be able to invest my work with some of those outward signs of a super metropolis. In fact the reverse occurred - a kind of numbness set in from the overactive lifestyle and overload of information. At the street level the 'narrative' conveyed a clear poetry and rationale which I felt was far bigger than my work. It was not as easy to mythologise the events on those streets as it was to mythologise St.Kilda. So instinctively, I began to 'bury' the narrative and focused instead on a more reflective psychological space through colour. I wanted to in effect hose down the babble - maybe I was a little melancholy. Walking around those oily dark deserted streets of Williamsburg by night reinforced all that. It led me bit by bit towards this idea of 'The City Submerged', which in turn gave way to the spectacle of shifting layers of light/data in the cityscapes from 92 onwards. I never thought of my works as simply celebrating the city, there is always a darker side to them, an ambiguity. Maybe that's why there's no hustle bustle, what you get instead is a kind of crackling uncertainty. I've painted the nocturnal city and its attendant information gathering connections as a metaphor for how our society is unfolding.

References

Clarke, Deborah. 'The Lost World A Tale of Two Cities. Jon Cattapan'. Art and Australia 33 (1996): 512-517.
Friedburg, Anne. Window Shopping : Cinema and the Postmodern. Berkeley, Calif.: University of California Press, 1993.
Mazzoleni, Donatella. 'The City and the Imaginary" New Formations 11(1990): 91-104.

Citation reference for this article
MLA Style

Dauber, Christine. "An Interview With Jon Cattapan" M/C: A Journal of Media and Culture 5.3 (2002). [your date of access] < http://www.media-culture.org.au/0207/cattapaninterview.php>.

Chicago Style

Dauber, Christine, "An Interview With Jon Cattapan" M/C: A Journal of Media and Culture 5, no. 3 (2002), < http://www.media-culture.org.au/0207/cattapaninterview.php> ([your date of access]).

APA Style

Dauber, Christine. (2002) An Interview With Jon Cattapan. M/C: A Journal of Media and Culture 5(3). < http://www.media-culture.org.au/0207/cattapaninterview.php> ([your date of access]).