The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-02-10 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

have done more fee the cause of reform (which is now
qui•e strong enough to take care of itself), than if I
should waste days, or even months, in detailing facts
with which every man among you is acquainted. I ask
from you, I claim from yon, your rejection, and your re-
probation of the amendment. I ask you to act upon this
occasion in such a manner as shall make the example of
the county of Hertford a bright one, and such as may be
fearlessly and honourably followed by the friends of
reform in every other county. I beseech you to do
nothing which way injure that cause in which you and
I have perseveringly and zealously worked for so many
years, and which, Votive gained, would make the pure
Constitution of England the envy and admiration of all
tho nations of the earth, and the glory of the free peo-
ple who live under its sway." The Noble Lord sat down
amidst loud applause.

Mr. limo FORDIIAM said, he was one of the oldest
Reformers in the room; be had advocated it more than
30 years ago in that county; he was one of those who
supported the celebrated Petition of the Friends of the
People, presented by Lord Grey in the House of Com-
mons; it was a Petition well worth being read, and
attended to in the present day. He felt that Reform
could be sought fur on„ibe Around of justice alone ; he
would he ashamed to 41efor a Reform which would he
productive of any injwitice to any honest man, and there-
fore, any Reform which would affect the interests of the
clergy he was determined to object to. The Reform to
which he wished to give his sanction, was such as would
be of advantage to the Clergy themselves.—(Applause.)
—There was another point, of great and serious import.
ance, and that was the advantage they would derive
from unanimity on the present occasion.—(llear, hear.)
It was usual with their adversaries to cast it in their
teeth that they could not agree among themselves upon
the nature of the Reform which they wished to intro-
duce. lie was therefore sorry that any thing had been
urged which could tend to interrupt that harmony which
it was desirable should prevail in a meeting so twiner-
ous and so highly respectable as that which he had the
honour of addressing. One of the gentlemen who sup-
ported the amended Resolutions spoke of the advantageof
unanimity, yet he proposed that which was most calcu-
lated to disturb it; for it was impossible that lie could
expect such a Meeting to be unanimous upon such Hese-
latious (hear, hear!) An Honourable Friend near him,
who was opposed even to the Petition, actually chuckled
when he heard the Resolutions proposed ; before that
his Honourable Frienil,*who he believed was prepared
with an eloquent speech against the Petition, appeared
in despair, now and then a half suppressed sigh escaped
him, as if conscious of his inability to make any thing
like a successful stand ; but the moment the Resolutions
were read, he appeared delighted. " Now," said he,
" I have something to go upon—here is food enough in
all conscience" (a laugh), The Honourable Gentleman,
in conclusion, exp d a hope that something effective
would be done towards bringing about a Reform. If we
were to remain at peace, it was a proper time fur Reform;
and if we were to be dragged into a war it would be
doubly necessary, as without it certain ruin would await
the country. It was not necessary to state, what was the
precise nature of the Reform required ; be would be
thankful for any, however limited. Some objected to
the Reform noposed by my Lord John Russell ; but
if that, when adopted, was found insufficient, what was
to prevent them from going further? He hoped the
Meeting would be unanimous in supporting the original
Petition, (Applause).
Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT next addressed the Meeting-
He was aware of the disadvantageous situation in which
lie placed himself by following the very moderate,
sensible and praiseworthy speech of his 'Honourable
Friend who had just sat down. Those who knew his
worthy friend must feel that his steady and zealous ad-
vocacy of the case of Reform was above any enlogium
which he (Sir J. Sebright) could bestow [ipplause].
lie had no hesitation in saying, that had the cause of
Reform been advocated throughout Enp land in the
same calm, temperate, but persevering manner, it
would err now have been accomplished [appl mar].—
Having already shown by his votes in Parliament what
his own opinions upon this question were; it was neces-
sary for him now to add that he continued friendly to,
and would give it his most cordial support. But as one
of their Representatives for the County, he felt it his
duty to collie forward; it was as much his duty to conic
forward and declare his opinions as it was theirs to
watch over and inquire into his public conduct, and to
call him to account for any neglect, or preference of his
own interests, with that jealous attention which a pro-
per regard for their liberties and interests required. He
was not one of those persons who represented the bushes
and brambles of a houseless Borough—he was the
(reely.eho. en Reprszentative of a free County, and was
bound to answer the inquiries of his constituents at his
peril. It was no idle or ostentatious boasting on his
put when lie declared upon his honour that he would
no more sacrifice his time and his health by sitting in
Parliament for a rotten Borough, than he would if ap-
pointed to it there by the Crown itself. So nom h had
been said, and eloquently said upon the question of Re-
form, that lie felt it unnecessary to enter at any length
into that question ; he would, therefore, only state short-
ly and candidly what his views were upon it. It bad
been well said by his Noble Friend (Lord Mere) that it
would be vain and presumptuous in any man to pretend
to point out what complete and specific Reform ought to
beestablished; it was a question upon the detailsof which
no two persons were agreed; but of all the plans of Re-
farm which he had ever met with, he preferred that
proposed by his highly respected friend, and late Col-
league for the County, the present Lord Dacre (loud
applause). The objeet of that Reform was not to de-
stroy but amend ; not to pull down but repair ; not to
new model upon a wild and visionary theory, that
beautiful structure which it had been the work of ages
to erect, but to renovate and beautify those parts of it
which time and circumstances had worn or decayed
(loud applause). This was the object of the motion in-
troduced by his Noble Friend. It hail been well observ-
ed by the Gentleman who spoke last, that it was folly
to refuse any thing unless they obtained all they asked.
Let them take what was offered, and if that was found
insufficient, what was to prevent them from going on ?
He would deal frankly with the Meeting ; there were
two descriptions of enemies to Reform ; the first were
those persons who fairly stated that no Reform was ne-
cessary; the second, and by far the more dangerous
enemies, were those Reformers who ,by their violence
and thoughtlessness rendered the question ob-
noxious to the more sober, steady part of the com-
munity (Loud cheers). Among the greatest ene-
mies of Reform, he considered those persons to be
who lately adopted that foolish production called the
Norfolk Petition.—(Hear, hear,) As to the former,
they held that the constitution was of divine origin—
that it was a thing too sacred to he approached—that
it must not be defiled by human hands. Did not those
Gentlemen know that our constitution had been one of
varied successive changes; that by changing, and alter-
ing, and amending, it was brought to be that beautiful
structure, which, in spite of all its defects, it still is ?
What was done at the Revolution? What was the Sep-
tennial Bill, introduced at the time of the Rebellion, in
order to secure the Protestant Succession? An Act,
which was the more necessary, as at that time many of
the Country Gentlemen were jacobites, nay, even his
own grandfather, then a Representative of the County,
Went on his knees in his full bottomed wig, to drink tl.e
Pretender's health.—(A laugh.) Were there not changes
*Were they not amendments in our Constitution? What
human institution was there which did not require fre-
quent inspection and frequent amendment? Countries

changed, men changed; it was in the very netire of
things that frequent alterations and amendments shout
become necessary. Ile confessed he did not relish the
plan of Reform proposed by ',not John alessell. so much
as he (lid that of his Noble Friend, Lord there; from
which however, the former was, lie believed, nteihlY
taken, but both were moderate, and tierefure not to he
rejected. Of what use was it to ran after that which
could not be obtained? If they adopte I the. Result'•
lions proposed to he added to the Petition, they would
destroy the effect of that Petition ; they would, in short,
fall into the same error that those persons did who
adopted that nonsensical P. tition at Norwich. In the
prayer of the Petition every Reformer ought to agree
He thought that pensions and places, « here deserved,
ought to be bestowed; where they were not deserved,
they were a robbery of the public for the purpose of
paying the instruments of corruption.—(Applause.)—
fie should be doing injustice to the Freeholders of the
County if he omitted to state this as his opinion. lie
repeated, that lie was not a visionary but a practical
man ; he wished to see the House of Commons united to
the people; let that be done, and those sinecnre places
and pensions compleined of would soon be removed.—
(Cheers )—lf they adopted the Petition alone, he would
present it as one adopted almost unanimously by the
county; if they added the Resolutions to it, he would
still present it, but in defence of his own honour, and
character, lie should feel obliged to state, that be could
not give it his support.—(Applause.)
Mr. N. Ceeveito, M.P. fully concurred in what bail
fallen from [We Hon. Baronet and the Noble Lord who
preceded him. He wished the meeting to take the pro-
posed Resolutions in this point of view. Suppose it were
suggested to any farmer, Of tradesman, or manufacturer,
that if he should all at once turn his capital into a new
channel, he would double his profits, would any man he
mad enough all) at mum to adopt such a course?—
Would not the farmer or the tradesman at first try the
experiment upon a small scale—fibs cries of the meet-
ing, that Mr. Calvert should mount the Table, here
became so lased and vehement, that the hon. gentleman
sat down]
The HIGH SHERIF/ was about to put the qu,stion,
when,
Mr. W. LAMB rose and said, that standing as he did
in the situation of one of the representatives of the
county, and anxious as he was to hear their opinions,
sue receive their instructions, which, though he was not
bound to obey, lie was bound to hear with respect and
attention. lie begged to say, that he should not have
risen but for the hope expressed by one of his honour
able Friends, that the petition would have the support of
both the county members. lie thought it due to the
freeholders present, and to himself, although his conduct
might differ from that which would be prescribed by tele
msjoeity, which he deeply lamented, to state in candour
and sincerity his opinions on the present subject.—
(Hisses.) Ile threw himself upon the indulgence of the
meeting (of which he felt he needed more than a emu.
mon share) for their patient hearing. They would go
with an ill grace to Parliament for an extension of
their rights, if they showed themselves incapable of
exercising those they already possessed with de-
corum and discretion.—(Tumultuous disapprobation.)
—He had listened to the opening of the Petition
with mingled satisfaction and regret; but he had
heard the sentiments of the gentlemen proposing the
amendment with unmixed surprise. He would only say,
that if he could ley aside the respect he entertained for
the county, and should indulge only his own feelings
upon the occasion, he should wish that the amendments
might be carried, because no act could tend so mach
to throw discredit upon the principles to which he was
known to he opposed, and to render idle, vague* and
useless, all the efforts formerly made in the cause of
reform in the county of Hertford, and which it was now
intended to repeal. But he had a stronger feeling fur
the conntv's honour, and he disdained to take any
sinister 'peens of supporting his own views of the sub-
ject. (Hisses.) He did not propose to discuss any of
the topics which had been introduced at great length:
lie represented no borough—lie had no borough inter-
est, nor hail his connexions any—he had what lie
esteemed infinitely higher, and what was the most
honourable point of de English gentleman's ambition -
a seat in the House of Commons, and the representation
of an independent county. He could not doubt, that if
the plan of reform now proposed should be adopted, his
way, connected as he was with extensive properties in the
county, would be much more sate and plain than it was at
present. He knew the superiority of power which superi-
ority of wealth gave, and lie should be very willing to see
certainlords relieved front the burden of borough influ-
ence, which they exercised for the purpose of advocating
the cause of reform—that influence which was in ede more
sweet by the addition of popularity. So eager were some
of these noblemen, that they were not content with the
influence they possessed, but they actually expended
their wealth in parchasing other boroughs to extend
their power of promoting Parliamentary reform. (A
voice from the crowd " But who reimburses them?")
No one reimbursed them. They possessed large for-
tunes, and so zealous were they in the extension of this
influence, that they thrust upon great cities members
who were disliked, and had even refused freemen their
admissions, subjecting themselves to applications to the
Court of King's Bench, and even to line and imprison-
ment, fur their unauthorized refusal. lie called upon
them, then, to admit that these nominations, however
faulty they might be, were not innovations ; they were
as old as the constitution. He knew that was no argu-
ment in their favour, but it was a fact. A good deal had
been said abdut Old Sarum and its bashes and thistles.
When did the gentlemen think Old Sarum was abandon-
ed ?- Why, it was when the charter was greeted to New
Sarum, viz.—in the Ilth year of the reign of Henry 111.
or 1227. at which period the inhabitants deserted the old
for the new borough. The fault, therefore, WAS co-eve I
with the (louse of Commons itself. The borough of
Batton was also frequently spoken of; that had been
chartered by Henry VI. He hail inspected, in the Rolls
Chapel, the returns of the reign of Henry fill., at which
time there was only one inhabitant. This was imme-
diately previous to the free days of Queen Elizabeth, the
glories of which had been so touch enlarged upon. The
state of the representation in her immaculate reign
might be guessed from souse letters of Lord Berleigh's,
which he would read from the Cecil Papers, and which
had been published by Mr. Wooler. One was directing
the person to whom it was addressed to forbear return-
ing members until further directed; the other spoke of
two persons having been created burgesses by indenture,
(" fur burgesses there were none,") and one being dead,
another was to be appointed in his room. Thus, the
honourable member continued, this practice had remain-
ell in good as well as in bad times.—(Frequent and con.•
tinued hisses interrupted these details.) —What was
claimed on the part of the people, on the con-
trary, was really an innovation: however fitting it
might be, or however much an improvement, It was a
novelty, a change.—(A voice from the crowd, "So are
the game laws." )With respect to the question itself,our's
was a balanced liovernment of King, Lords, and Com•
mons, where the rights of the people were maintained
by common juries and grand juries, and where each
authority acting in its own sphere, discharged its func•
tions for the coalition benefit of the state. The object of
reformers was to alter this balance and to substitute a new
order of things. Suppose the King or the Nobles, or
any other condition iu the state,should demand a greater
share of power, would not this require looking after ?
Why, then, should not a demand of a greater share of
power on the part of the people excite jealousy (hisses),
particularly when it was demanded upon the ground of

their possessing greater talent than formerly, and when
with singular modesty they were their own judges in
this respect?—(Hisses.) At present alll parts IA the
constitution acted harmoniously and in concert; the
balance might be easily destroyed, but could tot be
easily restored ; let the meeting look only to the`cOnti-
nent of Europe, and see the difficulty which they'still
had to re-establish the equilibrium of potter. The Eng-
lish House of Commons was the only experimental in-
stance they had of a free represer.tation : it was in the
history of the world a modern invention. The United
States of America coul.l not be instanced, because.theie
representation had only existed about 40 yearsi...titere
was no analogy in many respects between.the,.coun-
tries, and the parallel particularly failed inetisits.--
that here the land was occupied, and there it was not
The use of a representation was, he apprehenthiii,;: to
preserve and give publicity to popular feeling; to diiest
it of all that levity and inconstancy, all those sudden
resolutions and certain repentaeces, which had been ate
c taracteristies of all pure democracies, ancient or mo-
dern. The mode of electing the people's representatives
ought to be different, as there were different tnotl4dtati
conditions of society; it ought of necessity to be temper-
° I so that the representatives were not made as much the
instruments of error and falsehood as of truth and jus-
tice. lie was not prepared to vote for any sudden and
extensive changes. lie would no: vote for Lord John
Russell's plan of divesting certain boroughs of their
franchises and scattering them over the face of the
country. (Hisses.) He was sorry that gentlemen list-
pried to what he lied to say w.th so little patience: He
was aware that vices in the representation would and
did exist; for any change, the object of which was
amelioration, and the process of which appeared safe,
lie always had voted, and would still vote, but he would
n-ver put in hazard blessings which be knew were great,
and he hoped would be pernament. lie thanked the
meeting for their attention. lie had no complaint to
make of those little ebullitions of feeling which were
always the characteristic of popular meetings; and he
hoped no man would bear ill-will towards him for
the opinions he had expressed, while he was willing to
take by the hand those who had b• es most forward in ex-
po easing their disapprobation. (Applause) lithe meeting
felt a moral certainty. that the petition would do good,
they would be right in holding up their hands for that
which hail been read; if they meant to assist hi:n anti
the politics which lie professed, they would vote for the
amendment ; but he had a greater regard for their
lionour,than for his own success, and he hoped they
would, of the two rather adopt the former course. If,
however, there were any gentlemen present who had
not considered the subject fully, and were prepared to
act without having a deep and satisfactory conviction
upon the subject, lie conjured them to pause before they
should take a step which might commit their country,
their conscience, their posterity and their Goa.
The honourable Gentleman sat down with partial ap-
plause.

Mr. WILTSHIRE said the speech of the Honourable
Gentleman who had just sat down, only went to prove
that a Reform in Parliament ought to have taken place
two or three centuries ago.—(A laugh.)
Mr. PRICK next Caine forward, and was received with
a mixture of hisses and applause. He observed, that
having been so pointedly alluded to by his Honourable
Friend (Mr. K. Furclhain,) he felt it necessary to offer a
few remarks. The Honourable Gentleman, in the course
of his speech, was so frequently interrupted by hisses
and cries of '• off, oF," mixed with some approbation,
that lie was frequently inaudible for several minutes to•
gether When lie heard our great and glorious consti-
tution —when he heard that fabric assailed which
had been panegyrieed by the great Nlontesquieu, who
gazed upon our bright star of freedom with a hope that
its fight would spreal and illume the orbs by Which it
was surrounded ; he, though one of its feeblest advocates
felt it necessary to raise his voice in its defence.—
Ile next advert-A to the fallacious hope entertained by
many, theta reformed House of Commons would take
some steps to:relieve agricultural distress, by regulating
the supply to the demand, and iti proof of the danger
of such au interference, he quoted the answer of the
French merchants to Mr. Colbert, who, when he asked
what he. could do to improve their trade, replied, " pray
leave us to ourselves. It was singular that durine.
the war, when prices were high, nothing was heard of
Parliamentary Reform ; or of the influence of the Crown,
though the latter then was much greater than it was at
present. But after that influence had been reduced, the
manufacturers became distressed, and raised the cry of
Parliamentary Reform, The farmers having still high
prices said nothing about it. The distresses of the
manufacturers have disappeared without any reform,
and the agriculturists feel distress, and they, too, coin-
plain of the influence of the Crown, and cry for Reform.
So that It-form was to be a panacea for all complaints—
it was, if lie might hazard a humourous allusion, quite
the Dr. Sangrado system; bleeding and hot water were
the only specifics, no matter what the disease.—(l
laugh.)
Mr. Price proceeded to make some further observations,
but the frequent interruptions he received, and the
strong marks of disapprobation expressed by the Meet-
ing induced him at length to sit slow.
The HIGH SHERIFF then put the question, whether the
additional words moved by Mr. G. Pordhatu should he
added to the Petition, which was decided inithe negative,
there being but six hands held up in favour of that
Amendment. The original Petition was then-.put
and carried almost unanimously and by acclamation;
we only counted 4 hands held op against it.
It was then moved that the High Sheriff-should alga
the petition en behalf of the County.

The Mon SHERIFF said, that as he did not concur in.
the Petition, he hoped they would excuse hiw if he de-
clined to sign it.

It was then agreed that the Petition should be left for
signsture at Hertford. and other parts of the county.

Mr. FonotrAW then moved the thanks of the Meeting.
to thel.to Peers and five Magistrates who had signed
the Iteuisition.

Lord DACRE sai-!, that he had that moment rec-ived a
letter from Lord Essex, stating his Lordship-was con-
fined to his room by illness, and 'hat circumstance alone
prevented him from attending the inceting.—The :notion
seas then agreed to.

Mr. FOR Dfi A M then moved a vote of thanks to Sirlohit
Sehriglit; hr as sorry that he cud not include his
Honourable Colleague (sir. Lamb) in :hat vote, though
he gave him every credit for open and manly constrict.
That gentleman was the early acquaintance ni Mr. Fox go
he promised to lie a star of the first magnitude.: he
disappointed his friends, hat be hid loud principles at
bottom, and he (Mr. L.) would return to the old cause.
The motion was then agreed to.

Mr. W. Lana said he was sorry Opt t a sense of duty
obliged him io differ in opinion will' 11 r. Fordhate. iie
felt obliged for the manner iu which that gentleman alluded
to his name.

Sir JOHN SEHRIGHT returned than!.!. iia !aid, that ni!!1
his views of pubiic affairs. he would have been a dishonest
man had he acre I a different pert In Par!omeat ; he woad
have betra)e.l his duty, and hz ought in s tab case to be
hanged.—[A laugh and applause.]
Thanks were t voted to Mr. Nieholsan Calvert. for
hating voted for retrenchment and retluevon of taxation.

r:CALVERT returned thanks.
Tne thanks of the Meeting were then given to the•HIA
Sh”riff for his dignified and onpurtiat conduct in the Chair.
The Hon. (lent in returning thanks, took occasion to sly,
that nothing could be more orderly, proper, or respectahle
than the conduct of the :Meeting. Consider:as the grea