The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-03-14 00:00:00

'B2,
'fires
.own. at r.
'rest sinecures of State might be
is retired officers—but now, whew
ensions for them, can we confines
ar the same purpose. The Right
Peel) bad shown a treat deal of
on the minor part of the question,
over its more important features;
me of the house in commenting on
1, but he avoided the important
'tended by him that we should not
had been so long established; but
I that be to that house, that had
ing at the time of the Plantagenets.
der them as efficient, merely bw
for so lone a time. His next ate
year 1792 was held up as the mw
eat now, and these offices were them
he Tellers of the Exchequer not
? We are told that since 1792 tho
her has increased five times; if it

dmasters-General were not suffici-
at ; and if they were, they must
is. Such points were the mere
of the fair and open mode of meet-
se of the Hon. Member's other ar-
rest duty devolved on the Postmes-
nting persons to fin the various si-
n that it would be dangerous to
Ice such a power committed to the
onld inform the Louse that a He-
m to which much credit was at-
angler of patronage had actually
• Treasury were said now to possess
eh was held to be unconstitutional,
rm was attempted to be raised. He
ris Noble Friend did not seek to di-
ce or emoluments of the Postmas-
Id have no objee4ion that one person
fith nce of the House and of
d Live the appointment, with

and a full remuneration.—
lie dnties of the office Le discharged
moral? Were they so complicated,
la varied importance, that the at-
would nut be sufficient? He would
men who have declared that they
chment and economy—wonli they
ammo, that no useless office could
de.truyiu; the neoessary influence
manner in which his Hon. Friend
I the subject of the influence of the
r constitutional He agreed with
'considered as a primary principle,
ly an auxiliary one. Had not the
balm ? The nomination to all office
iU millions of revenue—the control
-the patronace of the Bishops and
—the pernnaFe of India and the
ill these sufficient? And did they
itence greater than ever lad been
'ant ry, or by any other tiovernmetit
ey attempted to deprive the Crown
e of the thirty-five Colonies, they
th attempts to destroy the influence
it such motives be imputed to them ;
ind well defined ; they never could
ittence arising from the appointment
. If they were bound to use an
d, even so far as the dismissal of
case, he would say, deserved the at-
-it was a cruel necessity to dismiss
r time, on the naked ground of Ida-
n this office of demonstrable ineffi-
, how could they refute all the eaten).
lowered on the English Constitution
lernment that possessed moreinflu-
ern held by any other, was now at-
▪ by that which was here celled in-
'l' corruption. The house could lis-
that the more intelligent and in•
the less likely it was to afford
Ile would be the last man to in-
Intent, or to widen the breach be-
nd the people. He would be sorry
of the country was likely to lead to
r felt that it had • claim on the con-
se, and lie trusted that its delibera-
u satisfaction. Before he would sit
I 'he house, that • pledge was I
iinst the redaction, and not by
•gretted that the Hon. Member for
,en in his plate, be would call on
4' be had himself avowed, to vote
other useless offices. Referring to
ords of Admiralty—be was not pre-
; hut he did not think it a case of
:th the present, or one involving so
r. Ile voted for this reduction on
office was totally and absolutely use-
appeal to the Committee of 1617—
so impressive as the Resolutions of
oils in 1812 soil 1813. If they did
:e as useless and unnecessary they
ton on the recommendations of the
ls.

d Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH mutually

he had supported the Bill for di-
nee of the Crown, because a power
rvices was substituted. Much oh-
tousle thrown upon sinecures, cad
isable to provide fur public services
le admitted the merits of the Secre-
e; hut he could not agree to entrust
c department to his suk menage-I
political connection was necessary
tad the higher public oMcers. He

nagement of the country. There was no one source of
the Revenue collected by a single individual : indeed
the admitting of such a mode of collection was never
considered a wise principle in Revenue matters. The
present was undoubtedly a bold experiment upon a
Revenue of two millions. It was a proposed saving of
2,5001. a year; hut he really believed the reduction, if,
carried, would affect the Revenue. The merits of Mr.
Freeling he fully admitted; but a consideration of in-
dividual merits ought not to affect the general ques-
tion, combining the two branches of the question, he
thought the best fiscal arrangements would be tissue-
led by not disturbing the office, and by negativing the
motion. He called upon the house, in the manly tone
of the Hon. Member for Yorkshire, to follow the exam-
ple of that Hon. Member, and not truckle to a spirit
which prevailed abroad, and which, if encreased, would
be the means of betraying the people.—((sheers.)
Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought every deference
ought to be shewn to public opinion in the abolition of
useless offices; and that now in discussion he considered
as admitted useless. He could not agree with the
Noble Marquess, that the wheel of Government could
not go on without two Postmasters-General. He thought
the country might continue to do without those Aflame'.
The Noble Marquess wanted the house toll!! np the gap,
and withstand the people; but he (Sir John) called
upon the house to stand with the people, and WON their
affections by reducing the public expenditure.
Sir I. COFFIN supported the motion, and said that,
conducted as the office had hitherto been, it ought cer-
tainly to be abolished.
Lord NORMANI3Y briefly replied. After the sacri-
fice of personal income which the King had made, he
thought it very hard that the Crown should he made to
defend a place of mere Ministerial mastagemept.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and a divi-
sion having taken place, the 'umbers were—For the
Motion, Is9—Against it, 184—Majority in favour of
Ministers, 23.

ORDNANCE ESIINA TOE .

We were excluded for some time, mod op one re-admis-
'Liu to the 6411ery, we found

Mr. ftWillu on his legs, conswillnipimiallarkel it
iI. the Ordnance Kitimat..., the details *bleb. itil%n
tended, were not satisfactorily explained. He said that
the House ought to have accounts of the civil establish-
meats, Were it voted one penny. The next account
which the House ought to have was the expenses of all
the houses belonging to the Ordnance Department.—
Many of them were not occupied by persons belonging
to the Ordinate., but were let oat to t idividuals, and
were maintained at a very large expense, and many were
not required by the department. He said he should
.wove for certain returns : he named several sums that
bad been voted last year, and moved for an account of
the manner in which they had been applied. The first
sum was that of AWOL voted for the Depots at Guern-
sey and Jersey.
Mr. R. WARD entered into an explanation of the
manner in which the SUMS had been disposed of; but
to give the information which the Hon. Gentleman
moved for, would be attended with very great expense,
as extra labour must be required in nicking them out.
With regard to the houses, no person in the department
was allowed to let out one of them.

Mr. IVILMOT justified the establishment of Deme-
rara, where the expenses were necessary for the mainte-
nance of the place as a military defence.
The first motion was agreed to with an amendment
moved by Mr. WARD—"aa far as the same could be
made out."
Mr. HUME next moved for accounts of the manner
in which the following sums were disposed of; 15,0011/.
for beds and bedsteads ; 40,0001. for stores ; 115,000/. foe
contingencies ; also the several sums under the head of
repairs; the number of persons to whom the 14,0001.
had been paid, under the head of clerks of works; ac-
count of the house rent paid for all houses belonging to
the Ordnance—these several motions were agreed to.
Mr. HUME again referred to Demerara, and contend.
ed that that Colony should protect itself, and that Brest
Britiain ought not to contribute one shilling towards
protecting its sulaar plantation■. He then moved for a
Copy of the Estimates of the Works to be done in DEM-
rars, for which 10,000/. had beea voted.

Mr. GOULBURN said that the money had been ex-
pended in preventing the sea from was;iing away the
town of Kingston, in Demerara.
Mr. BENNET contended that the colonies ought to,
protect themselves, and he was sure they could do so, if
they were properly governed.
The motion was then agreed to.

Mr. BROUDEN brought up the Report of the Mutiny
Bill.

Mr. HILISIE here referred to a statement made by a
Noble Lord, that the Articles of War were a part of
the law of the land ; he wished to ask the Noble Lord,
whether these articles were ever considered as such in
Courts of Justice.

Lord PALM ER.STON was me that if any man com-
plained to a Court of Law of • punishment, to which he
was sentenced according to the Articles of War, that
the Court would refuse the application, on the ground
that the sentence had been passed according to the Ar-
ticles of War.
Mr. HUME alluded to the case of a soldier, who had
been Bestowed to a punishment for not subscribing to a
school ; and on application to a Court of justice, the
Court held that the sentence was illegal.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said it was not com-
petent to a Court Martial to indict a punishment for not
subscribing to a school, because the sentence was con-
trary to the Anil:446f War.
The Rove' was then agreed to, and ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow.

MR. COBBETT AND THE STATESMAN.

Mr. Coasarr has made as arrangement with Tat
ATEEMA NXing Newspaper, instead qf his bringing
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en the Parliamentary Debates appears Dally.—Orders
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Statesman gfee, Strand.
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LONDON:
TIIVIISDAT LVINING, N•NCN 14, 1822.

STOCK KICHANGS, TWELVE O'CLOCK.

The business doing this mornio4 has not been of
groat consequence. Consols opened at 791 to f for
the Account, and for Mosey 781 to 79 ; since which
they are .ended, and are now done at 794 for the Ac-
count, and for Money 79i, with a good Market.--Five

pet Cent.. are 1421.
7011MION !MIDS. s-e-
There is some bustle in the n Market, in con.
sequence of to-morrow being tb y for the delivery
of the New Spanish Loan. "All eign umbiliet ap-
pear to be on the rise.
New and Old Spanish.... . -
Prussian . ........ 9O
Danish • . NC
Neapolitan 704 to 4
French. -AS b.ic. Ex-dividend
PROCEEDINGS IN PARLIAMENT.

Two subjects, both very interesting, engaged the
House of Commons last night; namely, the craelths
of fichester Jail, and the anti off of one of the
Postmasters• General.
As to the first, Mr. B':XToN said, that he bad no
hesitation in saying, that Mr. HUNT ought not to pass
the remainder of his time in that prison; but, this
Mr. BUXTON Of wb m we know nothing) took care
to say, that be* hi not say what he said because
he approved o principles of Mr. HUNT;
about which Mr cares, doubtless, as much
as he cares wh th it be a he-•pider or a she.
spider, that works the webs in his dungeon.—Sir
THOMAS LETHBRIDOE and Mr. DICKENSON spoke, the
former very fairly, and the latter in a softened tone,
1 but still attempting to defend the Magistrates, whom,
however, Mr. HUNT accuses.—Mr. PEEL said little to
the purpose; but endeavoured to defend the .Magis-
trates, .I.nd repeated the old worn-out, exploded, and
ridiculous reason for giving them support; namely,
that they rendered their services gratuitously! 1 ,is
notion has been long laughed at by every man of
common sense; by all but mere gulls. It would be
strange Mesa to see men so eager to get into their
hands the power of doing good for nothing ; without
any sort of remuneration ; to see parsons, quitting

their flocks, leaving those " cures of souls", which
they have so solemnly vowed to bloil to attend to with
all diligence, " in season and out of season", in order
to wield the sword of justice; and, all this for no-
thing; for no gain at all, direct or indirect ! Parson
Hay, fer Instance, of Manchester and of 16th of
August-memory, rendered his services gratis ; oh
quite gratuitously; and mast, therefuie, according to
Mr. PEEL, be supported ! The great living of
Itochedale, which Parson Hay got just after the Man-
chester affair was, doubtless, not given him for services
rendered at Manchester, because it was given him by
the Archbishop of Canterbury ; hut, still, it is clear
that his being &Justice of the Peace had done him
no Aetna. This was the man who first found out, that
men might be held to bai: by Justices, in eases of li-
bel, before trial! In abort, Mr. PEcL's is an old
story, which does not now pass without ( ticking that

width we will net, and whit& we aasi wit unwept to
denerliu.-41, is perfectly seam- *tie; that the be'
("at" Pasiof Ikt:J•asticiess le sew done by patios..
lit is ales sottteleas thht 1p very, considerable ponies of
these pareensl receleinthe lacono of more than one
Brit% each ; it is farther notorleas, that they pro-
and vow to God is the meet nektons m at
/their ordination, that they will constantly watch over
ilk lock that may be oornmitted to their charge ; and,
In short, that they will devote their lives and all their
capacities to the purposes of religion. Yet, notwith-
standing all this, we find them, as was before observed,
every where upon the beeches, at Quarter Sessions as
well as Petty Sessions, and meddling, with more acti•
vity than any of the gentlemen of the country, with
the business of Justices of the Peace. Will any body
believe, that they are requested by the Government to
do this ? If they be, this must be a strange sort of
Government unnecessary to say more upon this
subject at present, and we shall only add, that the
public ought to bear in mind, that the Sheriff has, of
his own authority, set aside the orders of the Magis-
trates with regard to Mr. HUNT; aad that this has
been done, is consequence of the Petitions presented to
Peoliament, from the people in the North, by Mr. Al.
derma° Woofs, Sir ROBUST WILSON, Mr. Honeouss,
and Mr. Hugs. The public will also bear in mind,
that Mr. DicsaNsom, who formerly defended these
Magistrates, and the jailer, Bridle, has now given up
the jailer, bat continues to declare his belief that the
three visiting Magistrates were " as incapable of
" countenancing any premeditated act of inhumanity
" as say gentleman who nolo heard him." This may
be taken in two ways; and, at any rate, Mr. 'helms( •
som's meaning depends a good deal upon the opinion
he may eatertainof the humanity of thegentlemen who
then beard him.—Mr. Maxon said, that he did not mean
to say that Mr. Hour's sentence was originally too se-
vest. Mr. BUXTON'S opinion upon this point is very
little interesting to as. The motion of which Sir
FRANCIS BURDZTT has given notice, and which we
hope will be made in a tone suited to the subject, is
admirably calculated to keep fresh in oar minds as
act which never ought to be for„ tten ; and, we never
can speak upon this subject, without recollect int that
eleause SWANN was, by the Justices of the Peace for
the County of Chrshire, sent to Chesser Jail fJr fir:r
rats aid s hay, in pursuance of three sentences
passed on him on one and the same day. SWANN, a
common labourer, when he beard the last sentence
from the lips of these Justices, exclaimed, "is that
"all? 1 thought you had a bit of rope in your pockets
" for me V' This man's offences were, idling pamphlets,
is two cases, and, in the other case, being present
merely at a Reform Meeting I

THE Posrmasrua-Glanznat..—Amongst the prodi•
gious things that exist in this country, there is that of
two persons, under the tide .of "his AI Assarr's
Postosaster-General," io the singular number, each
of them receiving two thousand five hundred pounds
4-year, and tibr which receipt, it is not even preten 1. d
that any:mice* at all are rendered. This double-
jointed Postrotster-General is, or are, the Earl of Citt-
cure reit, andite Marquess of SALISBURY. It will be re.
collected that the first of these Noblemen lately told the
distressid Wafers at Lewes, that they had better stay
at homeland mild their own business, the reason for
which it is very easy for the public to conjecture.
Last night, a motion was made by Lord NO3MAVII7
for cutting off one-half of the expense of this deuhle-
jointed personage, the Postmaster•Oeneral. The rea-
son for doing which is much too obvious for us to sciie
any of the arguments matte use of in support of the mo-
tion ; but, we now iftt Mrdaxxas the justice to sae
that he supported the motion. It was lost, at last, by
twenty-five voices of a majority in favour of the
Ministers, out of three hundred and fortyobree Mem-
bers present. Mr. Hower: Sustarea, and Mr. S.
WoarLev spoke against the motion; that is to sty,
for the retaining of the second Pest-master, and
thereby keeping the charge of two thousand fire hun-
dred a-year still in existence against the country.
Mr. Daxisov spoke for the motion, and said that
the two Lords, according to his information, really
attended for scarcely any other purpose but for re-
ceiving the salaries.—But now for the arguments in
opposition to the motion ; or, rather, the argument,
foj there was but one; namely, that the office, among.;
otters of the same description, was necessary for the
support of the influence of the Crown !—IVe beg the
people to look well at this. For the support of the
influence of the Crown ; and let os ask the people,
what is weaned by influence of the Crown here ;
what nature it is ; where it is to be exercised ? who
are the persons that are to act in conseqsence of it
—When the people have answered those questions for
themselves, then let them recollect, that there is three
times as mach money expended now upset the whole;
and six times as much expended in offices, staff-pen•
sinus and sinecures as there was expended is 179 d
When the people have so recollected, then we beg them
to attend to the argument of Mr. F. Rostov-al in sup-
port of the propriety and wisdom and necessity of this
increase of influence.—He said, that there existed now
a great deal morespoNi Ira/ infinmation, than forme r I ,
throughout the country! that public opinion had
acquired a respectability which it formerly did 'not
possess; that the people now scrutinize the conduct
of public men with just severity; that you ceeld
not now walk the public streets whitest meeting
with men who knew all that public men said and
!hat he rejoiced at this ; that he thought it a tree

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oft:
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, V ' 'riur er.., the whit at'' lie peAda w 1 Tho LAM MOE/ *ill wee reported, med.oriered
, al i- • , ,
,_ Meese,. whit* was an he wad • third time Moment,
,
V.;l*, •J • A .. Of the . ;, n. Aliso 818 was read a thrti dale and poised.
ie dLOlll ' '.__, . Y said.thewseatioll The other Orders el the Day bolas disposed Of, the
" '''' 4 st,lill. pool "II ' • he *GM esodoe him- the noose, af haMpost,eiemm, adjourned.
. .
5 -k . C the. mot 6 meg barks ape thii Amu _____ r A......_ -
tett, Wi ' 141 has from tither side. Ma milli "'CALEDONIAN ASYLUM for SUPPORTINO
-••••
dim 1 ; •
, iheald.thee "Ilia Mat Ilaallblw fim Curb autlM would V and EDI:MATINS the CHILDREN of SOLDIERS,
..oh A
t Feb not *Sy Minishent ill credit be *lst bed already boot SAILORS, end MAORIS, NATIVES of SCOTLAND.
f greater im , ace this despite the may of retemsehment. seeordlag to the plan who Meddled. or Soso disabled in the Service of their
v. If Ilmf • Ida Ott diadlosed•by his Sight Men. Prised the Cbanealtor of Oosetry. and othellgeal Rosa Parents resident is Lou-
Wed, tly ,di If .... • I lxcheqrser too a foemor aighL Theobject of Minh dna. net maid to Poresbial Relief. Cross-street, Hat-
he.. IBM
*,a bet *, was to extingnieh some offices, to modify others. awolowlea•
with the shin a intern If pdesible to alter the regulation of the remainder.
I'm !VTR ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL of this h-
id not say that r s a ••,
;*I a view to diminish the public expense ; and at that silted" will take ssee at the Iranammwas. T en
SATURDAY, the lith of April next.
nded, that if „orabs anitipaid a I.:emasisslon was sitting for the purpose of as-
s them, Me se '. .4. cpedining tbe properieects of retrenchment. Bet PR.IIIIIIIIIIT.
B. R. H. the Deka of YORK and ALBANY. la the Chair.
'orce Or all- ' orbit& reference to this calor question he must look
: . .. Ill'ltWA IDS.
ectent of its o s 'a •sseArtebnee of the nment is considering it.— Right Hoe. Earl Elden, Lord Colossi J. Bailie, of Lays,
a
therefore': -• ,r. •' at slues& a mass of official labour to perform. that High Chancellor of Great M.P. •
Bons stroll ,•• . - 'Most solemnly declared. that. if those connected with Britain. Michael Bruce, Esq.
4 • .Right lion. the Earl of Fife. Dun. Davidson. the younger,
sting any • . . - . ' •the of Goveroment whose whole Weenies were
Right Hon. Lord Stowell. of Tulloch, Esq.
e considire. ' .e • ‘e ' reqoired. were removed from office. the machine
corps of EirT.rdaTielbseqehar,llart. AndrewßerkeleyDrummond,
rot vote, a , , • d AM gp on. There was always a strong
. e_o 'ld Sir O. Cock- Esq.
‘ ek on BM other side of the House, and it was abse- v
.
ISH said
might have given lately necessary that some of the Members of Govern- Sirtj'e..ibeeiscre-C.R.ior M.P.nney, NerilsqßanjaminEdmondstone,
as no e, er q ion at issue than meat should 'be present to defend the citadel. With Bart. Ate:ander Meedonald. Esq.
'e the Howe. t other questions regard to the second branch of the question, he certainly Major•Denerel Sir W, Great William apoinierey, Esq.
of greater magnitude by the Hon. did not admit that the office was an inefficient one. Kele, tint., R.M.T. Boyd Miller. Esq.
erond in the debate, which if once The Hon. Member for Corfe Castle, be thought was not Sir Riebard Menlo. Lieut.-Col. Wm. Munro.
ke at the root of the British Co. 'bound te_wde for the present motion, merely because be John Brown, Esq. John Rae Reid, Esq.
oppose the public voice to such bad hrole'itll tbe Bill which had been so frequently An Election of Poor Boys, to be placed on the Founds-
d with the Hon. Member for Corfe alluded to. Although this office bad been included in 000, will take plot:oat the Quarterly General Court in June
nemixt.tted Aipostpplimostireddreseedon behalf of
o thCaencorpodidaterets esiouestober
the
n the denial that these principles that Bill, it had been decided not to be a siseenreoffice.
'B2, which were 'wowed by Mr. If the House sanctioned the motion. declaring one Post- ledonlae Asylum, on or before the Ist of April nest.—
Riees might be retained to support master-General sufficient, they would introduce a system printed Forms ( Petitionmay be obtainedby applying
at
'own. Mr. Burke's Bill went to of innovation and revolution in the whole R ata, the Asylum. M. IL rw
METCALFE. Sevreta.
. . ..