The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-10-07 00:00:00

GARDEN'S COMMITTEE.

Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE remarked upon the very large sum
which the Finance Committee had becn called upon to pay
the week before for improvements at the Mount Gardens.
He believed the council had authorised the improvements in
question ; but, if the council knew at the time that the sum
of £4OO would have to be paid for iron railing round the
Mount, they would not have rushed into so large an ex-
penditure.
Mr. JORDAN said the railing was indispensable, inasmuch
as the place had been a disgrace to the town. Estimates had
been procured, and the lowest had been accepted.
Mr. PLATT said it was admitted upon all hands that the re-
pairs were requisite. He was surprised at the allusion of Mr.
Lawrence to the expense.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES thought a greater outlay would be re-
quired at the Mount before twelve months had expired.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE said it would have been well, if
the chairman of the Gardens Committee had apprised the
council in the first instance that the outlay would have been
so extensive.
Mr. JORDAN said the repairs would have cost a great deal
more, if he had not attended to them himself.
The CH AIRM AN.—We all know your zeal for the gardens,
sir. (A. laugh.)
The proceedings were confirmed.
REPORT OF THE PAID OFFICERS' COMMITTEE.
Mr. LLOYD said it was his duty, as chairman of the special
committee, appointed on the 6th of May last, td inquire into
the present duties of the officers and servants of the corpor-
ation, with their respective salaries—to move a suspension of
the standing order, 26—and the reception of the first report
of that committee.
The DEPUTY MAYOR said the report could not possibly
be taken that day, as it appeared rather ponderous.
Mr. EVANS said that without there was an urgent neces-
sity, he had an objection to making free with the standing
orders of the council, because there was no knowing where a
precedent of that sort might lead. They should not urge on
the present matter with undue haste; and if it were not ab-
solutely necessary he should wish to have it referred to the
next meeting of the council which would take place in a
fortnight. He considered the example of suspending the
standing orders as very bad.
Mr. HODGSON thought the subject a deeply interesting
one, and that the council would be in full possession of the
facts by having the report then read over. The discussion
might come on upon a future day.
The TOWN CLERK then read the report, which is inserted
in another part of the paper.
The reading of the report being concluded, Mr. SANDS
immediately rose and said, he did not know whether the
present was the proper time to propose the thanks of the
council to Mr. Lloyd, the clerk of the committee, for the
very able report just read. If it were the proper time he
should have the greatest pleasure in proposing such a motion.
The Deputy MAYOR reminded Mr. Sands that this was
only the first report of the special committee ; and he appre-
hended the council would very willingly thank them at the
end of their labours.
Mr. BOLTON said, the next point was for the chairman of
the committee to make such a proposition to the council on
the report as he might think fit.
Mr. SANDS said, if he were wrong of course the council
would correct him; but the report was really so able that he

thought no time ought to be lost in proposing the thanks of
the council to Mr. Lloyd, by whom it had been drawn up.
Mr. COOPER agreed with Mr. Sands that it was a most
valuable report.
Mr. SANDS.—And I think Mr. Lloyd and the committee
are deserving of our thanks for it.
The Deputy MAYOR said, no doubt they were, and at the
proper time he would join the council in thanking them ;
but he thought such a motion would come with more pro-
priety at the end of their labours.
Mr. LLOYD then rose, and said he was sure it would be
impossible for the members of the council to form an opinion
upan the importance of the report unless they had it in their
hands. He therefore should move that the report be printed
and crrculated among the members of the council, and that
it be taken into consideration at the special meeting already I
appointed for the discussion of the gaol question. He would
simply remark, as he did not wish to enter at the present
moment upon a discussion of the merits of the report, that
the committee had studiously avoided mixing up persons with
their office or duties. The committee had first of all gone
through those departments in which the officers were not in
connection with any particular committee of the council.
They had desired to report some months ago upon the Town-
clerk's department ; but they found it so mixed up with
other offices, so connected with even the Treasurer and the
Surveyor, that they had found it impossible to report so
early as they had been anxious to do. In stating what might
appear to be some sort of fault on the part of the Treasurer
for not checking the fees, it was due to him to say, that on
every inquiry the committee made from him, he stated that
he never considered it his duty to look at more than what
came to him in the shape of a summary. The consequence
had been, all the confusion which the committee had pointed
out in their report. He now begged to move that the report
be printed and circulated among the members of the coun-
cil, and taken into consideration at the special meeting of
the council to be held mat day fortnight.
Mr. Bot,Tosr seconded the motion. As the evidence had
already been taken upon the departments of the Surveyor
and the Treasui er, he would suggest to the Chairman of the
Committee (Mr. Lloyd), the propriety of the report on them
being drawn up, and added to that on the Town-clerk's de-
partment, so that they might all be taken into consideration
at the same time. The Treasurer's department especially
was so mixed up with the report already read, that he (Mr,
Bolton) thought they might, with great propriety, be consi-
dered both together; and as the evidence had already been
taken, the report could not take very long to complete.
Mr. LLOYD said that he had devoted a very considerable
portion of time in the last week to the preparation of the re-
port lust read; and there were also so many matters to refer
to in the departments just named, that lie could not bind
himself to report upon them both in the next fortnight. The
report on the surveyor's department would be a work of con-
siderable labour, and he thought it would be one that would
startle the council, more especially with reference to the
weights and measures. He could not touch one without the
other: the surveyor was mixed up with the district building
surveyor's department, and, therefore, he would endeavour
to keep every thing distinct.
Mr. BOLTON said there would be no difficulty as to the
treasurer.
Mr. LLOYD said that as to the treasurer's department by
itself he might be able to report; but, perhaps, the council
might wish to have it in their hands for a fortnight pre-
viously. He would do so; but it was only a duty which he
owed to himself to state, that he had already devoted more
time to this matter than perhaps he ought, with due regard
to his own business.
Mr. HODGSON thought the council were called upon, with
the weight of matter now presented to them, to to take the
report as it was, because the departments were separate, in-
stead of being overloaded with that yet to come. Therefore,
without committing themselves to form a judgment, the
council ought not to allow the day to go without expressing,
though not in a formal vote of thanks, how deeply they felt
themselves indebted for the pains that must have been be-
stowed to give such a detail of the different accounts. It was
perfectly that they were in a state of confusion and intricacy,
whence arising would have to be considered, that had highly
called for—
He hoped the committee would persevere to report on the
other departments with the same clearness as they had given
the present, so as to come to the bottom of them. And he
should say if they got through one or two of them in the
course of a council, they ought to have special councils held
for the consideration of them. If they were in the position
that that report represented them to be, it was high time
for the great corpwation of Liverpool to show that they did
know how to organise and conduct the affairs committed to
their charge.
Me. Alderman EARLE asked whether there was any
question before the council
Mr. HODGSON said, it was competent for him to ad-
dress the council, as there was a motion that the report be
printed.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—We may all have our nostrums;
and I shall have mine !
Mr. HODGSON said, he had not committed himself to the
report, but he had a right to express his opinion.
The DEPUTY-MAYOR said, the question to be determined
noar was, whether it was desirable to add to the present re-
port the further report to which Mr. Bolton had alluded.
Mr. LLOYD begged to observe, that all which had been
now reported upon was distinct in itself, and in a situation
to be taken into consideration. Auy other that might come
afterwards would only put more labour upon the council.
Mr. BOLTON had been, he believed, at every meeting of
the committee at which the report had been considered.
The inquiry, he considered, was complete as regarded the
treasurer's office; it was also complete as regarded the sur-
veyor's office ; it was also complete as regarded the sur-
veyor's office; but more particularly as regarded the trea-
surer's office, connected as that was with the accounts. And
as he (Mr. Bolton) should not be many weeks longer in the
council, it would be a satisfaction to him if he ended the
labours in which he had taken a part, and which he fancied
would have to be began again if they were not completed
before the Ist of November.
Mr. LLOYD said he had willingly undertaken to repor upon
the treasurer's department.
Mr. BOLTON said, he would be satisfied then with the
treasurer's department.
Mr. PROCTOR, as a member of the committee, asked in
what position the council would place themselves if the
chairman agreed to report on the treasurer's department.
The report on the town clerk's department was already be-
foro the council; but there wrs no report as to the state of
the treasurer's office.
The DEPUTY-MAYOR considered that it would he more
regular if the report were brought before the council pre-
vious to being printed.
Mr. BUSHELL asked whether the chairman of the com-
mittee considered that the evidence should be published, or
merely laid before the council, for each member to read it if
be chese ?
Mr. LLOYD said, that upwards of 5,000 questions were in
evidence before the committee, to which he had made a sort
of index throughout. The expense of having the whole
whole printed would be very considerable. He thought the
council had better have the report in their hands ; and they
might have the evidence read over without going to the ex-
pense of getting it printed. (Hear, hear.)
The report was then ordered to be printed, and taken Into
consideration on the 19th instant, the second standing order
being first suspended.