The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-06-28 00:00:00

• • • 77

, inquiry be a Committee of the whole lionse. Is i•
oid• g that the first subject in the realm should he mil
.1 lief trial by the Were spite dilit of the Minister, u ithunt
taliasuent interposing any authotitv of its ono ? The
„iyie Lord has asses •.cd. that the tkeision of the Com-
mittee twist be one, that it must necessarily he in favour
at proceeding. lint the C ttee may report, either
Cast the grounds are insufficient, or that there are iiilli-
rabies connected with the evidence which render it ad-
visable 1114 to proceed. His argument on the subject of
iopeachuient is against the whole practice of Parlia-
seat. I have looked at the precedents, anti I find that
'tie proceedings by Bills of pains and penalties are, nine
est of ten of them, in tamest which might have been
. matter for inspearliment. I have heard the speeches of
tie Counsel at the Bar. and able as they were, they did
riot contain rive word which applies to the present flues-
:ion. I agree with them in thinking that the Illustrious
ladiviilual and her Counsel ought to have time to collect
the evidence, and even that they ought to hate their
:I.Jice as to the time. Rut now there are no charges
~,,,,meacad. MI we ask, is, to refer the Papers
to a Committee, in order that the Committee may
ieteemine whether any charge should !me preferred or
wit. If the Committee determine that we ought
to proceed, then n ill be the time for her Majesty's
I mood to ask fur delay. The Noble laird has al-
indid ,o the ill credit sit Secret Committees, hut I will
1 i ii!„tti.ile I ran obtain your attention, hear nitliout op-
uo.ing any argnment grounded on clamour and discon-
tent, whether without doors or it ithin, for the purpose
of setting aside the practice of our ancestors. lie has also
alluded to tire Members of the Committee. They were
selected without reference to political opinions, as was
proper in such a cast; anti I will ask, w (tether any one
who Las read the Dames, can entertain a doubt that they
will act like honest and conscientious men ? I wish, to
say one word upon what fell from a Noble Baron the
other night with regard to a Right Rev. Prelate. That
Right her. Prelate is as ignorant of the 'lndents of the
bag as the Noble liarun himself; and as for the 'mils-
con of her lajesty's name from the Liturgy, all the
blame which may attach to the advice must belting to
the Exe:utive Government. I have now ati,ivered most
of the Noble Lord's argnments: all I request is, that von
uill not be deterred by the cries of faction front doing
what von conscientiously think ought to be done; that
you trill refer the Papers to a Secret Commitite, not to
1 u
try the individual, but to determine hether aey species
of proceeding should take place upon them.
Lord ERMINE said he wished to give his opinion

on the question at that early period of the debate, be-
cause he was the only person on that sl,le of the House
who had originally voted for a Secret c..iiimittee. His
opinion with risrect to the propriety of that vote was
nut siere changed, but be differed from the proceed-
ings of the Noble Lords opposite in many regrets, so
far as to render it impossible for him to continue longer
on the Committee. When the Committee was first ap-
pointed he certainly felt great reluctance to be nomi-
nated as one of its Membera. Certainly he did not think.
that according to the statute of Edward 111., there
could he any impeachment. The House of C 1111111 l one
might, it was true, impeach ; but their Lordships were
the Judges, and would not consent to any proceeding
which the law of England would not justify. He
looked, however, to probable contingencies ; and he
thought then as he thought now, it was not probable the
Rouse of Commons would prefer any impeachment fur
taisdetueanonr. But what was the state of things at
present?? It was impossible when the Committee was
nominated to foresee the turn which affairs had taken.
Per the kinwg4,:cussuassas ganorally, Good for many
MeinVers of it individually, he entertained great re-
spect ; bat- he confessed his surprise at the proceeding
they bad adopted. He had already stated his opinion
on the * sion of her Majesty's name in the Liturgy.
When he looked at the Act of Uniformity, hr doubted
if ally power existed in the Crown to direct that omis-
sion. The words in the Act were very strong. They
stated, " that the names should be altered and changed,
and suited to the occasion." It was evidently intended,
however, only that the names should be changed, but
not that the individuals should be omitted. From the
terms of the Address voted to her Majesty by the House
of Commons--(here his Lordship read the Itesolntion
of the flouse)—it was absolutely impossible that the
Queen could acted: to the wish herein expressed.
Her Couns 1 hail last night declared at the bar, that
the Queen demanded the right, which any other sub-
ject possessed, of a public trial. When his (Lord
Enkine's) name was added to the Committee, he hail
no idea that be should be asked to do what was con-
sidered " derogatory from the dignity of the Crown,
and injurious to the best int. rests of the empire." All
that he expected to be called upon to do was, to ex-
amine the nature of the evidence contained in his Ma-
jesty's communication. He considered it as a kind of
indulgence to the Illustrious Individual in qnestion;
since, if a Secret Committee were to determine that
there was nothing against her, no calumniating tongue
could have injured her character: and if, on the con-
trary, the Committee were to determine that the evi-
dence was sufficient to justify a proceeding, that pro-
ceeding must take place openly before the House and
the country. Now that her Majesty insisted on a
public trial at twee, the case was different, and he
should unquestionably vote for his Noble Friend's
motion. It was impossible for Parliament now to re-
cede, unless the Queen consented to :melt a step.
ThiLoatiCnaxcati.on was anxious to state to their
Lordships the reasons by which be was actuated in the
coarse that he took on the present oreasinn. Much
fuel been said by the Noble Earl who proposed the re-
-etitsding of thi it Lordships' Order, on the nature and
character of Secret Committees. He begged to say, in
the most impressive manner in which he was capable
aaying it, and be wished that he had a voice which
would extend from one end of his Majesty's dominions
to the other, that it was x most abominable and unjust
reproach on his Majesty's Ministers to suppose that
they would wish this thing to be ever disposed of by
What was called a Secret Committee in the offensive

sense of the word. He would go further. If it were
proposed to bring in a Bill on the subject into Parlia-
ment without a previous investigation, to that propo-
sition he would never consent. It bad been argued,
that Ministers had laid what was called the green bag
• tut the table of Parliament, because they were desirous
of shrinking from their constitutional responsibility.
-Unless he bad mistaken the whole Parliamentary his-
'Wry of the country, and be could assure their Lord-
ships that he had looked at it wijh great care and at-
minion, there bad been numerous cases in which a Se-
lect Committee bad been appointed to interpose between a
troposition made to the House, and the act of the House.
Wm, was hip to he told in the present instance, that be-
muse it might by possibility turn out on investigation
biter, a Committee, that there might be ground for an