The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-06-20 00:00:00

114 E ST,

tit& Competency by a majority .or 125; yet these
Jilioiftcr9 had, during the i• /emit heritiiied un ne*
strength. To what then could he attrillete this change
of sentiment, if it well not ow ing to the House end the

Coolitr.v being against the conduct ofthose with whom
the ner-ciatilm had been going on ? He thought t,:e
House might havelseen satistied K it h ORO vote on such
subject. Even One interference in t trestion of that
kind was a strong measure. there was but a thin par-
tition between negativing and nominating in such cases
as those, anti bethought that the second, attempt had,
too, the appearance of the-wish to usurp the power of
onminatieg to the Prince Regent the individual per-
wuswho should be kis Ministers. 1k felt regret

. _
fiat the negotiation for the formation of an efficient
Administration, compreiveinling the two Noble Leith
Alluded' to, ivad`failed ; but when it had so failed, he
viivi wish that en attempt had been made to form an
4devinistration without them, and still without re.

sorting to the formor men. This, he thought, might
have been 'done by bringing forward something fresh
. .

a- -
nd new ; and he could not but think that it was a
Wel ellihepAlic that it was lowering the coun-

trv. to hold that there ryas nothing but those two
parties from which an Administration could be I
formed. Ho regretted that no negotiation of this
ki d could be carried on wi4hout the two !tartlet
thinki,.; that tl.ey were set against each other; and I
that the communications which passed on the subject
swat all he submitted to the public. Such publics-
lions were to the disadvantage of this country, and
to the• encouragement of the enemy.• Ile wished an
enshat.to could he laid upon them, so that they might
not get aiirond, and that it mi,ght net appear at a
period when ,we ought to he united against the
enemy that we were AO employed. lie concluded
by mining an !ramble Address to the Prince Regent,
pra, ink that he would be pleated to order that there
he laid before thOlouse, such official doceisents as
had been laid before his Royal Highness relative to
the formation of a new Administration in conse-
quence of the. Address Of the House, as far as his
Poyal ili4hness was of opinion they might with pm-
prie,ty be laid before Parliament. •
Lord R. SEYMOUR stated, that not only were.
his Noble relatives and himself determined to hare re-
signed their situations in the Household, bet they'
took the greatest ptins to publish their determina-
tion. Ile assured the House he might greatly
strengthen this declaration if he were to appeal to
gentlemen to whom this determination bad been com-
municated. He entered his protest against qnotinc
Members of that House for opinions or expressions
loosely given by them in conversation out of it. It
was not by such means as these That Gentlemen were
likely to improve either the. debates in that. House,
or private conversation. No man felt greater plea-
sure than he did in the speeches of the Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. nerney), but that pleasure mast
be greatly diminished, if the subject was to be the
conversation of two brothers, isf whom he was one,
as to the conduct of their third brother. If the Right
Honourable Gentleman had had such information as
that with which be had favoured the House, com-
municated to him by him (Lord R. Seymour) per-
sonally, he was certain he would not have thought
it lit that he should make it a subject of discussion in
the Hence ; and hearing it, as he did, at second hand,
he drought the Right Hon. Gentleman might hare
dpabted the truth of it. In establishing his main
point, however, the Right Hon. Gentleman had for-
gotten what was due to him (Lord R. Seymour) and
his brother.

Mr. TIERNEY said he was rather in• an unplea-
sant situation, as he Mt in impression had been
made on the mind of the Noble Lord, that something
had fallen from him in a former debate, which was
beyond the usual line bf courtesy observed in that
house. He assured the Noble Lord, that in what
he had said, or might say on the subject alluded to, 1
be was actuated by no personal disrespect to the No-
ble Lord, or to the Noble Marquis. Neither was
he aware that be had Weeded in any measure the
usual marks,' of the House. He did not volunteer
the statements he had made; they were forced from
him. A Nettle-Lord not now present (Yarmouth)
made a speech which had, "or seemed to have,
-a great effect on the House, from the triumph-
ant cry with which it was received—and by
which it seemed to be imagined that the failure
in the late overtures was attributable to Lotus Grey
and Grenville, who had shewit a (1 sposi tiou to extort
humiliating concessions from the Prince Its>4ent. The
speech of.tbe Noble Lord went boldly to assert, that
it was.and mast have been known that the Citamber-
lainsand Deputy Chamberlain, Sic. were stilling to
resign, but that the two Noble Lords, not content-
ed with this, insisted on their removal ; and that this
intention on the part of the Membrs of the House-
hold had been communicated to his Right Honour-
able Friend near him (Mr. Sheridan). Being strong-
ly attached to those two Noble Lords (particularly
to one of them) from his earliest childhood, the ob-
servations he had then made were .forced from him,
and he having been brought in contact with his Right
Honourable 'Friend, and t,•ting understood from
him that such was not the impression on his mind,
this 'naturally led bins to what had been the state-
meats of the two brothers ; one of whom, it was
stated, had, on the Thursday, distinctly said, that
they were to resign ; and the other had said directly
the reverse. in stating these circumstances to the
House, he hoped he had thrown out tin imputation
On either of the two brothers—nor had he been
guilty of any breach of private confidence. He
then came to'the question he had put to his Right
Losourable Friend, on Friday, the sth of this
month, whether he had ai'y information on this sub-
ject, or did believe the fact of their intention to
resign ?—llis answer was—and, though he had, as
usual, succeeded in treating the subject with plea-
santry, he had not been able, to gainsay a word of I
it—that he would bet 500 guineas that no such thing 1
was in contemplation. If his Right Hon. *Friend
would not admit that this was se, then he (Mr. Tier-
ney) mustconcede himself to have been in error, but
still must vindicate himself against the charge of be-
traying private friendship. His Right Honourable
Friend must have known, that te have betted 500
guineas with him (Mr. T.) wooldisave bean absurd ;
and, of course, the words were used only in common
parlance ; but he must still say, he had fairly quoted
the words of his Right Honourable Friend, and if they
gave offence to any one he was sorry for it. After
sousideratioa) be thouibt be bad found out-a war of

-S.

reconciling both stories, hut he did tterthink it throttghout the whole business, for which, In his
necessary to trouble the Home with doing so. 'His opinion, he *as entitled to the Thanks of the Hope:
alight Hon. Friend might not think that it was their Mr. HUTCHINSON thought the wishes and el.
intention to resign. [Mr. Sheridan here dissented.] pectatlons, and still more, the wants of the ,
Then he was mistaken, and had to apologise for hay• had not been attended toll the formition of the
wished, however, that ! sent Administration. He shogid net say in what'
ing misled the House. He pre-
ing
being the case, to learn from his Right lion. Friend : quarter the blame lay. But if he had only. one day
what he did mean* because the wager wo admitted. 'to live, he tbould says that he certain there earte.idhhadh.e
(Mar, hear !]—lle hoped he had now set hiaiself • been bad faith in the negociation
ed
right with the Noble Lord, and that he had done had no hesitation in saying, thathiewhe
nothing unbecoming a Gentleman. An he wished conscience that Lords reandGrene villleevhadinnolst
was to set the two Noble Lords (Grey and Great- been fairly dealt by.
vile) free from the clamour which had been raised The Motion was then negatived.
against them, and to have it established and admitted ADMIRALTY REGISTRAR-OFFICE BTT.L. '
that they never had any communication made to Mr. HENRY MARTIN rose to bring in his pro-
theni, that any such resignations as these in question . mired Bill for the purpose of regulating the Office of I
were in contemplation. He now came to theeques..l Registrar of the High Court of Admiralty. -The
Lions put to Mm by his Right Honourable Friend.— 1 Hon. Gent. in a speech of considerable lehgth and I
He (Mr. Tierney) did not ask for any such autho- !abil4, stated the greet-rids ou which he rested the
rity from Earl Moira to Lords Grey and Grenville, introduction of this/ Bill-' and recommended it to
as that which his Right ffenourable Friend's goes- the adoption of the Haase. The professed oldest of.
Hon implied. His Right Honourable Friend asked iit was to secure to the suitors in the Courts of Admi-
him, what would satisfy Lords Grey and Grenville? j ratty that property which, on their behalf, was en-
to which his answer was, not but from authority, I trusted to the custody of the Registrar. A Bill of a
that matters should be conducted in the old esta- ! very similar character had passed into a law in the
bashed way, namely, by the Crown giving authority . reign of Geo. I. to regulate the funds in the Court
to someone person to tie to the formation of a new of Chancery. It wasein the recollection of the
Administration ' • and in illustration of kis meaning, House, that he had recently submitted various me-
instanced the authority given by his Majesty, about tions, the end of which had been to lay before the
eight years ego, to M. Ott. Hevontended that the House all possible iufotm ation as to the nature of the
removal.fronetheelaces of the Household was nut office in question, and the emoluments, of whatever
a prellieniiiary stipulation by the two Noble Lords kind, accruing to the present holder--a Noble Lord,
(Grey avid Grenville) with Lard Moira—hut a pre-' a Member of the other House. The production of
limivary vestion put by them to that Noble Lord, some of these documents had beereassented, while
,which hayliek teed answeredlit the negative-, there others had been refused, From what was actuatly
was then an end to the meter, and,,the negociation 'before the Rouse, it appeared that the fees payable
broke eir. - If East Moira had said he had authority, to Lord Aden amount to 12,0001. per annum, and
to thateffect„then the negeciatimi would haye gone 1 that a sum of 200,0001. belonging to suitors was the
on, and neither they nor his Royal Ugliness would average sum i:i his kends, which he employed to his
have known that any such thing had pissed.' As to own private advantage, and from which it also ap.
the contents of tie paper, to which .his Rigfit Iles. peered that he had been in the practice of deriving'
Friend objected* he (.blt. Tienfey) knew nothing of no less a sum than 7(k)Cl. per annum. lu addition
them. On the former day o:1 which hile.Right Hen. to all this he had to state what had not been allow.
Friend brought forward the present question, he pro- ed to be authentically laid before teem, that there ,
lesser! himself to he a friend to the liberty, or even was a sum vested in Exclieeuer Bills
..preducing an
the licence of the press; and it appeared that be interest of -14,0(k)1. the distribution and destination
made roily tine objection to this rule, and that was, of Which he had not been able to ascertain. The
so far as it extended to himself. His Right Hon. Han. Gent. then entered into a minute detail of the
Friend thettgave thews. treat deal of the Catholic provisions of his Bill, and concluded by moving
.question. Then he expressed hie dislike at coalitions. that it be read a first time. _ i
thotsgh be seemed to be More than usually loud of Sir W. SCOTT objected to the principle of. the
them, when he proposed a coalition between Gentle- Bill as unnecessary,
_no grounds having been laid on
men on the side of the House or) which he sat, and any examples of freed in the administration of the
Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House. He property, which it was the pretended purpose of the
then proceeded to pass •an eologittm on Lord Sid- C.iil to secure. The persons referred to iu the chg.
mouth, and boasted of the support he had given to ratter of suitors were chiefly foreigners, who might
that Noble Lord's Admiuiatratiou. lie (Mr. T.) be injured by having their property vested in the
did not recollect of his Right Hon. Friend ever giv- funds and subjected to all their fluctuations. With
ing a vote in support of that Administration, though respect to the detailed provisions of the Bill he
he recollected well that he willingly sneered at them ; could see no other result likely to be produced ex.
and particularly that he o ice applied a translation of cept that of inconvenience to the Court. Ile should
an Epigram of Martial to the Noble Lord.—[.4 move, therefore, as an Amendment, that the Bill
laugh.]—He could conceive no other purpose for be read that day sis months.
which his Right lion. Friend bad brought forward Sir S. ROMILLY rose to defend the principle of
the present motion, except that it afforded him an the Bill, not to enter into those details which would
opportunity of expressing his disapprobation of the be better reserved for the consideration of that Coen-
conduct of the two Noble Lords, Grey and Greti. mittee, which he had heard no argument from the
vile, who, however, he (Mr. T.) contended could Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman, to ja-
bots acted no other way than they had done. As it duce him to think that it was not their solemn duty
was, the Gentlemen opposite were continued in the to go into. It was most important that a just &el-
Administration for went of better, and, as had siee should be had on the question, whether a Pub-
been observed to him the other night by one of their lic Officer, apeointed to guard the property of
friends, they might sett, I thinktea.we shall now live' Suitors in a Court of Justice, was justitiei in ap.
happily and contentedly together'. You carry all the plying that property to his own private advantage.—
questions ;we keep ail the places. [Hear, hear 11—Ile hail been tqld indeed that rune
Mr. SIIEMIDAN explained. eieitors were foreigners, but he considered this as
Mr. PONSONBY declared, if the letter alluded only forming ea additional argument, an argument
to by his Right Hone Friend as a letter by which founded on the dignity and character of the country,
Earl Moira wished to renew the negociation was for giving to the property of those individuals all tits
really meant for that purpose, the words of the let- protection amid security which it was in their power
ter did not express that meaning, though indeed the to bestow. [hear !] In his judgment it certainly
negociation was afterwards renewed. fie heartily was an illegal use of the money. and in his opinion
concurred in the propriety of tee line of conduct a suit might be maintained for the recover) of all th.
adopted by Lords Grey and Grenville. If they had profits derived from that use. Sir S. Romilly quoted
agreed to come into office on the terms proposed, he a decision in. Chancery, on a Bill filed by Lord
for one, would not have consented to hold office Lonsdald against a person who held a lucrative office,
with nor under them. that of Receiver at the harbour of Whitehaven, it
Mr. MARLIN (of Galway) said, the Catholics which it had been expressly laisl down, that suet
of Ireland would as soon accept of emancipation use of monies was cotomr) to law. He then re.
from the present as from any other Adn • 'stration. (erred to the case of lewd Macclestield, who her
Mr. WHITBREAD confirmed the statement of been impeached for practices not very dissimilar
Mr. Sheridan as to the facts to which he was stated and asked the house if they would now sanction.
to have been privy ; and declared that the greatest what they had once declared to be a high crime and
anxiety had been shown by his Right lien. Friend misdemeanour? . . .
through the whole of the negociation, as far as he The SOIACITOR-GENERAL contended that
had an opportunity of observing, that Lords Grey the question of illegality ought to be decided in
and Grenville should form part of the Adntinistra- Court of Law,as his Honourable and Learned Frieot
tiou. lie (Mr. Whitbread) went out 'of town before had admitted it might be, when he gave it as his opi'
the negaciation was put au end to. He had freely nion, that a suit might he maintained for the reco.
expressed his opinion on the subject of its failure, very of the interest out of the hands of the Officen
'but did not thick it necessary to' press that opinion of the Admiralty Court. Supposing it necessary
on the House. however, for the House to decide the quostio!i, the
Mr. SHERIDAN in reply expressed Ms astonish- Bill did not effect that object. Upon this point, too,
ment that his Right lion. Friend (Mr. Tierney) he well remembered that a question had been put t(
should beetle to ascribethe present motion to nothing the twelve Judges—the case of Lord Meivillee--whe•
else but a desire to express disapprobation of the con- ther the making use of public money wes, even after
duct of Lords Grey and Grenville. Did his Right an Act passed regulating the appropriation of that
Hon. Friend think so lightly of his own character as money, or was not, a high crime and miidemeatiou.
!to suppose that he (Mr. Sheridan) could hold his so who all answered unanimously in the negative.. llr
cheap as not to vindicate it against the aspersions of conceived the Bill to be perfectly unnecessary.
li a Publication under the influence and controul of Sir S. ROMILLY explained, that he had not saii
' those with whom he had been accustomed to act, the making use of money in the way described., seat
'when so far from meriting the charges thrown outa criminal offence, but merely that it was illegal
I
against him, he had used every exertion in his power, and that a civil suit might be maintained for the re,
to have the two Noble Lords alluded to included. in ' covery of all the profits derived therefrom.
an Administration which should present a firm and I WHITBREAD maintained, WHITBREA maintained, that no greater
united front against the arch enemy of the Country. difficulty could exist in sending money to, and draw,
Mr. TIERNEY explained, when, big it from the Bank, than in depositing it at an;
Mr. SHERIDAN observed, that he did not be-1 other place. He reminded the Honourable am
Hove the fact of the resignation of the Officers of the Learned Gentleman (Plomer), that if Lord. Melvilh
Household,, because the contingency on which alone had been proceeded against for restitution, by a civil
it w.s understood their resignation would be Dews- process—no defence could have availed, but that tW
cessary was then more distant than it had been. proceeding merged in the criminal' prosecution,.
Mr. TIERNEY—" Theo my Right pon. Friend Sir JOHN NICHOL opposed the Bill.
admits be did say that there. was no conception of Mr. HENRY SMITH said, the object of the Dili
' their resigning." . ' was not to do away the functions of the Registrar of 1
Lord CASTLEREAGII hoped the Motion would the Court. of Admiralty, but merely to make the
not be pressed} al it,was unbecoming that such dise, Bank of England has banker.
cussious should reabille theslaProbatiou of Parliament. Mr. WI,LBERFORCE obsetved, that TO a return
Mr. SIIERIDAN had us intention of pressing the made time years-ago by the Registrar of the AdMi.
Motion, which conveyed the strongest censure on, ratty of the:profits of Ms office, nothing was Mated as
the practice, by calling for Official Documents on arising Hone the interests of the properly of suitors,
the subject, of which there could be Done. which looked like an admission that he did not con.
Sir &BURDETT thought nothing could be more eider this a source of legal profit. lie moved the ad-
candid lbw the Conduct of the Prior.. Relent' jotirsissont of this debate to this day sestallatt-gr-v

.»~ .

kik _ 2.-

[

,
,
0; ,r
......,..........
Sir JOHN NEW.P.iii.T asked, if the ftteit.t , IS ...
interest of monies of Suitors was legal, why it eel.,
not included in their return? r .41
Mr. MARTIN said, the ,4,ject of the Bal was .tO ,
assimilate the practice of the Court of AdMiraltY ell -,lj
much as possible to that of the Court of Coatteery.s
The Bill was copied from attether broughtin in 1810, . 11 .
lby the late Cnaucellor of the F.xchequer, which`never
passed, and what was singular enough it seem n' ed the
(rite unexceptionahle in principle to the lime Learn.
ed Gentlemen who had expressed themselves so difa
"ferently to night.--1 I fear, hear 11
Lord CASTLEREAC II thought, the itelicidesi i
who uow filled the office would not take any profitS
• that he did not believe lie had a right to.
i Lord COCHRANE supported the Bill, and colas
[shined of the abuses in the Admiralty Courts.
I Mr. ROSE defended the Admiralty Cuurts.
.
Mr. WHITBRf.AD explained.
After which the House divided.
First, en the question thit the Debate be adjourn's
ed to this day se'unight, , ~,1,,?,
. .
F' ,r l' 114 -A 4:11.1., it se., ,74
1 And aPerwards, on the question that the word.
proposed to be left out, state' part of the Bali
Fs Ili Q.,,,eiss ss- s sone tt 17- Silljkatiii AL
The Bill was accortli:,gl3 lost. f s
Th, Riut Bill went through m a Committee. -rh•
Report was rsceived, and °rites e I to be taken Intl" I
fury c
E . 4
f hons :o iderhm o y nest.
n Tuesdast.
• ~,
t .
Ili
it
ilo°lNnuisero'f' :11n1YerflPred:hise'SETta'eranlinpl Dal tuegterie:l;las's.:l7:kolit't'iptihliets,e(o6lli.diepoft. :tebiri 'WIA4CWI:I7IObE . i'
'
deritdhletoliboedsle
e eli?
d adjournedto.
'oot ... t
•
'
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.. .
• LAW INTELLIGENCE. • ,
i .., '
COURT OF KIVU'S BENCH, Juane.
LORD. V. SMITH.'
This was an ar!ina of assault, and arose oat of 6 . • 1
visite?, haw een the Gs ave,end Wateriness alai Graves. . i .
end Pilots, as to the invasion by the forasor of the , .
rights of the latter, in taking charge of a ship in the .
i {.
I }liver Thames. There were two netioas, which, it
1 i appetred, had hen pending since October, 1810.
1 Mr. SCARTATT stated the Plaintiff's case, anti to
, I support which, ha called an Excise Officer, who was ,
, 1 nu board the vessell and -- Billingst the Plaintiff I
in
the other action. Both these witstehses underwent
, a severe cross-examination by Mr. 6-mallow, who
t addressed the Jury, for the Defendant, with consi. •
Iderable effect, and did not feel it necessary to go •
,Muth.
evidence.
. The Learned Judge stated to the Jury, flat how.
t
over great and culpable- the provocation, yet blows , ~,,,
, hitting been givea, the Plaintiff must, as had loon
D
i I admitted on all sides, have a s.rslict ; but he Elsa..
e i tioned the Jury against giving a....- such damages as
should furnish erbcoararment to tiring actions of a
i similar nature, whichllt was easy to see, were ge. !I
1 nerally brought, not ors much to recompence time .•
~.,
party complaining, as for the parpuss of pultimg me- .A.
r my into the pocket of the Plaintiff's Attorney. 1
I; Th, Jury, after a short consideration, returned a
I verdict, with One Nailing damages.
_
e t After the verdict had been delivered, one of the
Jnrvmen enquired if this would carry the'costs? to • , '
w;tich Mr. Justice &smear repliati, that be made it
' a rule ncrer to stale.lo a Jury What' damages would, • .
1- I
lor would not, carry coats. This was not their pro-
t- , ~
,f I since. They were to give such damages only as it . , •
,_• appeared to them the PlaintiffPlaintiffought to receive, ~
_ without looking to the further consequences of their •
se verdict.
IS 1
The Jury thereupon returned a second time, with •
.
It a similar verdict, by which each party bears his owl
costs.
F,
....""1"1"••"•••
le , COURT OF COMMON PLT..1.9, Just; 17. .i. •
er JOHN aino r. STELLA DEsART. Ittir.
1Y Mr. Serjeant Ossr.ow moved, that the Rule IR i.
"t • this case be made absolt:te.
le I
al / From the report of the Prothonotary, it appeared
, •
___, that the affidavit of the -Dslattlaut, every part of ~.
,
rd i which the Plaintiff, in his affidavit, had distinctly
e, `, and positively denied, was fully substantiated by do. .
s
i 2•
cuments.—The rule was accordingly made absolute.
.
on j When the Defendant, win) was herself iss Court,
e- heard the case decided its her favour, she Aas 'outer.. • I
Pi -.powered by her feelings, that Cle could not resist
r; saeldiag a flood of tears. We hair that she is the .•
to same lady of whom, totne time ago, the public Pa. i?.
•;
. )•
Id • pers repeatedly made mention, and whirs*, Isus:iand,
Captain Philbin, died in April list, atter h:.ving beets .
It • married to her a few days. -
a i . - -...............-•—... .
el I
A.. 1 - TOE WOOLLEN,AL4NUFACTURERS.
o- 1 • --- ,
rs I There are not, perhaps, on the face of the eartii; ;
v, ' a more aggrieved set of men than the Woollen Ma.
is : nufacturers of Dublin. The inhabitants of this me-
ov ; tropolis talk it well, and there is much nauseating
to cant about munificence and pity, &c. &c.; but we do
e- . assert, that charity does not dwell in the man who
:er ' uses English manufacture, while his own countrymen ,
at are absolutely perishing for want of employment.
ir, i There are about 550 woollen` looms in the Liberties
Ie , of Dublin, and each loom, on an average, affords I
1
1 employment to eight people, who are constantly em.
id . ployed in the season•of the year when the wool warps
as ° and cloths can be dried; and, allowing only five ef •
tl, I a family depending on each, they wall amount to
v-ITwenty-two Thousand!! who are supported by the
I woollen manufacture, when the weather permits.—
er i Yes—strange as it may appear, these Twenty-two
•
,v-i Thousand persons are, in the munificent City of
ay Dublin, put to the hazard of their existence on the • t
ad casualty of a shower of rain I—ln 1809, the wo often li
Ile manufacturers petitioned the Earl of Math, tits
tit City Authorities, and their Repressutatives in Pm-
-14 'lament, to procure thein a Stove Teeter House, for •
the use of which they were very willing to pay; but;.
for the erection of which, in the first instance, their
ill means were inadequate. They represented to them,.
of that from. the want of a Stove '('enter House in tins •
he winter season, when rains, snows, and frosts set in, , i
they were all thrOwn idle—that the miseries they .t
to in consequence experienced, were beyond de-
si- scriptimps-that hunger and Cold were suoreeded by
as various disorders, which broke up their funiiies, aid,
re, drove them into the public hospitals, the infirmaries,
o. ' aod the streets 1-,-And what was the resui.t,oh! . yet i 1
4- Imunificent great ones of the City of Dublin ?—Woy,
Via% net a 001 Pig an 0111 tokkis frotothirPeri4
• - ~ .
. .
_
...t,
,L.
• ... _ . _........ ... _ .. ______. • _. _ ....... ..... .
.. . .