The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-06-19 00:00:00

THE STATF-SMAN.

•ntil the Ministers bed tried the experiment of re-
ttenehesont.

Mr. W. LAMB that it was impoesiblo not to
peocoite that the dodos were itoposoul els articles of
grorril toes he had almost said upon the very ones-
aities of life. Ile by a. swans intended to object to
the searrot principle on which those duties were
prwed : in grueral they fell as lightly, and were as
fairly divided, as soy duties could do; but when
they been.. oz.:Woof, they are not only productive'
of great Inenavoniencs to those on whom they fall,
Mt also of great debasement and adolteration of the
article on which th►y are imposed. On these grounds
is should oppose tits supply, eves if it torte 'alai-
Pito to roles It at the present moment. Besides, in
the lersing of uses, it was very requisite to consider,
what tumid be the effect of them on the popular
mind: now ha thought that the object of these lazes
was liable to be misrepresented ; nay, that they
might, even if represented in their real colours, be
the subject of groat public odium, and that, instated
of producing energy and vigour In the country, they
twight proileer very general despondency and dismay.
Ho bad hoard Gentlemen on the opposite Ale of the
llamas affirm, that if a financial @lron was to be made
by the country, it could never be so advantageously
or so generally called forth as by some tat founded
on the system of a tat upon properly. For his own
part, he was well aware that this great r 00000 es ought
-to be reserved for the esigencirs of war, but our es•ra•
ordinary situation in peoce, (and a now and eat taut.
dinary ono indeed It was,) appeared to him such as
to distend oar having 'moors* tosoms such measure.
A slight proportion of the Property Tat 'cold leave
a sufficient resource to the try, in CM we should
unfortunately be called upon to engage once more in

Lord JOHN RUSSELL then rose. We regret to
say, that the Noble Lord spoke in a tone of voice in
low, that we enfold not hear his observations dis-
tinctly in the gallery; end that in same instances,
where we caught the commencement of his sentences,
ve entirely lost tbe„conclosion of them, from the
in which he dropped his voice in closing
them. The Noble Lord then entered into some de-
tails regarding the manner la which the National
Debt had increased to 8-10,000,0001., and the
changes which had acetified in the Sinking Fend sine*
its Institution, end maintained that there was no
/weenies, for our rotting apart 5,000,0001. for it, as
• less sons would show that we had feuds seScieet
for the maintenante of another war, if we were unfor-
tunately dragged into one. With regard to the par.
Costar taxes proposed, he would ask whether they
ware not tales wpna necessary commodities? If they
were, they were well calculated to be Injorioes to
the lower orders, inasmuch tvefery tat which affects
the necessaries of life 'fedi thole who employ the
poor, end consequently diminishes their means of
paying them for their services. Soch misery mast
uaturolly lead to the debasement end degradation
of the hardy peasantry ohthe country.
Mr. RICARDO maintained, at some length, that
the idea of there being a Sinking Fund was nothing
but a 41elesion. One ob ion, however, he must
make, that lazes for necessaries did not fell so mach
upon the laboesing damn as open those who paid
t hem.
Mr. LAM R explained.

Mr. I.IROUG iIA M cont r led the a•'ertiena
which Mr. Lamb bad made regarding Mr. Foa, and
spoke in fawner of the amendment.
Lord COMPTON esplahred ; after which, cries
for the geestion becoming very general, the Horse
ditided on the amendment—

Aye.. SO I Non. US 1 Majority, 119.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee.
On oar re-admission into the gallery, after the
question that the Bill be reed s first end second time,
we found the CHAIRMAN suggesting, that as it
was rmw proposed to read the Bill, cleave by clean,
k might save the time of the Committee lobe in-
formed, whether any Hon. Gentleman Wended to
oppose it ?
Mr. BRAND said, there was one deuce which
be wished to be emitted altogrther.—(it was then
reed by the Chairman, and treat to empower Excise
Decors to tete en 'cermet of ell melt on hind, in
the possession of enlisters, brewen, kc. on end after
the sth of Jely ) _

Mr. BRA N Li had en objection' to the whole of thin
clause. Although he was aware that former prece-
dents might authorise the taking so account of stock,
fur the purpose of taking the duty, yet in the pre.
sent case it was, be thought. from the cireemstances
of the times, impooible. When molting first began
burley was thee of more valise than the asenefactered
article was now. Ile understood from such returns
as he had been able to collect, that the duties to be I
taken on the oath on hand would rodeo, above
2,000,0001.; where., the Right non. the Chancellor
of the Eschequer had calculated them at only
1,400,0001. At any rate be ahoald propose, and
be should hope, that if the Right lion. Gentleman
carried his clause, he would defer the time of m-
oment to the latter end of the year. That part of this
tan wee unnecessary, he contended, because it would
yield a greater automat thee he (the Chancellor of the
&charter) had calculated open. There Dever, he
repeated, was a period at which the distress, the
misery, and the burdens of the People, rendered such
a measure more severe; and be trusted that the Right
Ifoot. Gentleman would, at least, teach them with as
lenient a hand so possible.
Mr. C. CA LV ERT said, that in the Bill, as it was
now worded, the soalisters were called on to give so
account of their stock on hand ; this he malatalued
they weld net do.
Mr. lIAILT DAVIS hoped Ministers would lake
their case into consideration.
Mr. C. CALVERT was sere that the object con.
templated was of impossible attainment. There were
several senators io the country, who bad very large
quantities by them ; bet he knew one in particular,
who had at present No less than 10,000 'patters of
malt on hand ; end that he, for instance, should be
able to calculate what might be the increase, was ma.
Wholly impossible. All that they ought to be called
upon to do was to level the malt, so that the Escise
OlScer, by gaging it, might be able tell the quan-
,.
Mr. BERNAL opposed the clans.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rid, he bed endeavoured to auessesedete the erode of
tread to the circumstances of the times as fu as it

could possibly be done. (lien the Right lino. Gen.
!lessen byelaw allanst inaudible In the gallery, so that
we Isere prevented from collecting some of the de-
tails labia appvered to follow.) It bad been or.
ranged, that the duty of Is. 2d. should be paid:-
IM
first instalment of 2d. in Notember. the second
of 3d. in December, the third of 441. in January, sot
the fourth M sd. la February sad March.

Mr. CAI.VERT wished to understand whether
he had collected filthily from what the Right lion.
Gentlemen had jest said, that he world be willing In
meet an application from the maltsters for • farther
eateasion of the esisting periods of payment?
Tim CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
we understood, to express his dissent.
Mr. CALVERT said, that the total amount of
these Duties would be somewhere about 2.300.0001.
The Right lion. Gent. hail said, be should raise by
tketa only 1,400,0001. Now, the qoantity of malt
made depended on the quality end abundance of bar.
ley. It appeared to him, that the Right lion. Gen.
tleman would raise, as port of the 3,190,0001. est,igh he
was proposing to raise, not only the 1,400,0001. of
his original 'alienate, but a further sum of 900,0001.

Mr. II USKISSON defended the principle of the
defy.
Mr. LYTTFLTON opposed the at altogether.
If they most be driven to a tat at all, h• should
vote for • Prop►rty Tat. more anodltird and pro-
perly digested. If Hon. Gentlemen, however, ep.
pesky, thought that he would do this oncondit;on-
ally, they were mistskert : what be nseset was this :
that he should prefer a Property T•t to one auto-
sivrly offectiog the poor.
Mr. RICARDO again maintained, that the tee
upon necessaries did not fall so immediately open
the poorer classes.

Mr. Lytlelton, Mr. Brand, and another Member,
said each a few words he explanation, which ware nut
audible in the gallery.
Mr. BROUGHAM tugged against the semity of
theta:, as far as it went to impose a dety epos the
stock of melt on hand.

Mr. C. CALVERT also argued spinet the tasa.
don of thy stock on hand.

Mr. HUSKI:SOY contended, that if the duty
were net laid an the stock on hand, it would give an
unfair advantage to the holder of it above the power
of the present crop.
Mr. S. WORTLEY thought as the stock on hand
was purchased et a very high price, it would be Inn
severe to increase the hoiden on the holder, by the
addition of a as upon it.
After a few words from Lord ALTHORP, which
were wholly iosedible to es,
Lo►d CASTLEREAGH supported the clans,.
A MEMBER, whose same we caeld not learn,
reed a letter from a brewer. complaining of she
loss which persons in that trade wield sustain by
the is.

M►. T. WILSON (as no understand)did not eon.
siclor the as eure■sousble as applying to brewers or
salt:tors.

Mr. J. P. GRANT tbeeght the waster was cur.
gain cf a loss on his present stock.
Mr. C. CALVERT eaplaioed.
l The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIII. Ea
could not agree with the opinion that the e of
the tea would be to drpr:rlate properly of lb oil.
Mr. Alderman WAITIIMAN declared t he
was averse to the tax altogether, on the ground of its
pressers upon the lower orders.
. .. . .

Mr. lIICAKDO admitted that If the mallster
coeld charge the tau upon the price of the enmmo.
dity, he could have no claim for relief. Ile under.
stood, however, that this was not the ease in the
present slate of the meeker.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON observed, that Its great
presser, meat be open the poorer classes, seemed to
him evident. II the sitestion of bellied were venal-
dered, both the health and snorais of the People
must be improved by a redaction io the prices of
malt liquors.
Mr. lIAItT DAVIS said a few words is favour of
the chow

Mr. WESTERN thought the Committee shoold
not overlook the peculiar circumstances in which the
sieltster wee pieced.
The question was then put, that the clause should
stand part of the Bill. and carried in the affirmative.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER., in
moving to 611 up the blanks in the clause which fol-
lowed, proposed that 3d. per butsbet, is part payment
of the new duty, should become slue on the 10th of,
November nest; 3d. further on the 10th of January,
18W; 4d. on the 10th of Febt vary ; sod the reside*
ors the 10th of April.
Mr. BRAND espressed a wish, on the part of s
considerable number of persons Interested, that the
6rst payment should be made in December.
The CH ANC ELLOR of the IC H EQU ER said,
that it was Impossible to accede to this delay, without
likewise postponing the period of 6oal paynaret.
On its being understood that this was the class*
which provided for lasing the stoat io band, a di.
vision took place—
For the dame. 175—Against h, 67-118jetitY• 108.
On our re-admission to the gallery, we found the
CHAIRMAN moving to report progress, and ask
leave to sit spits the same oveolog.
The Hesse having mussed, a message from the
Lords acquainted it that their Lordships had marred
to the Loam Bill and the Ileeduras Murder Bill, end
had likewise passed a Bill for ladeureifying witnesses
who might give evidence rospectieg the Barnstaple
Election, is which they required the concurrence of
that Home.

On the motion of Mt. WYNN, the Bill was read
a first sod second time, and orders/ to be committed
on Monday.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved, that t►e House should again resolve Itself
into a Committee on the new Excise Dodos Bill.
The nest clause way that which related to Coffee,
and which raised the ditty on low-pricad coffee from
71d. to Is. per lb.
Mr. J. P. GRANT rose, merely to apply to this
branch of the new duties the same observations which
had been applied to the foregoing, that it fell with
most 'earthy on the poorer classes. Coffee, it was
well known, had not ken greenfly drank provioes
to t►e late reduction of duty. He should move,
therefore, to Insert in the class. the old dot', of
711; but without soy intention of dividing the Cent-

whim. after the eaperieece which he hid had of Its
dirpniiiien.

The motion was 'quilted without a division, and
the clause as originally proposed agreed to.
On the clam imposing an additleasi defy of
IL 23. on every bushel of Malt from the sth of July,
making the whole duty per bosh., 31. 6d., a divisioe
took place, whim 'hire appeared—
For oar claw, 111 I eltgatooi Majority le.
The clause imposing en additional defy on British
Spirits was aimed to withiset a division.
On this clause ins/basing an additional Each. Doty
1 of 4 per cent. on Tea being read, several Members
spoke arvinit it.
Mr. BIRCH opposed the duty. He said that it
would principally fall on the poor, whose only
solace the article was when deprived of meet. lie
thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer should, by
lowering the duty on Freida nines, and thus in.
creasing their consumption, raise the sem which
this additional tea would predece, without burden-
ing the poor classes.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER
replied, bet his observations were not beard in the
gallery.
Mr. ELLICE contended, that the additional duty
would not produce an edditionel retests,. .

Mr. Iles; e, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Hurst, and Mr.
Benuqhsra. obj►ct►d to the tart.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
esplain►d.
Mr. LITTELTON ask►d the Chanc►llor of the
Exchequer what sees was especial to b► raked by
this les, and ohs' certainty there was that the sem
'veld be r►alized ?

Mr. W A I I'll M AN opposed the additional dole.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
espleined.
Mr. LYTTELTON declared his intention to di.
tide the Hoes.. unless the Right Hon. Geot. would
eloind.in the additional duly ou the coarser deacrip.
lions ate'.

Mr. MONEY made a few obserratiose is reply to
Mr. flume's r►marks.

Mr. S. WOR ['LEY bnped t►at the Chancellor et
Me &c►equer would give way on t►is tat, since it
could not, at all events, add math to t►e revenue.
Mr. SCARIErf aught that a small diminution
of t►e duty on tea wield increase t►e remise at pre-
sent derived from it.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
gallery was nearly cleared for a diri.ion, when
Mr. T. W11.%0N proposed. as an amendment to
the clause—" That 96 per cent. be paid on all teas
sold et the sale, at or coder 21. per lb. ; and 100 per
gent. on ell sold for more than 41. per lb."
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER en-
press►d his willingness to adopt this proposition.—
The Right llonourable'Meson stated, In answer
to a question put by a Member, that a great deal of
tea was sold at the India-booso not only soder 25.,
bet under Is. 6,1.

The clause► as amended► was then unanimously
agreed to. _ .

The !loose rtleettd. and the Report WIN Ordered
to be recoiled nn Monday.
441'0‘4%* DUTIES BILL.

The CHANCELLOR of tilt EXCHEQUER
epged tie Oder of tb. Day for the Herm resole.
ism 'itself Into a Committee► on the Customs' Duties
Bill.

Mr. ELLICE 'wished to know, if It wee Intended
to Icy an orldisionsi tat on sugar.
The CHANCELLOR of Oa EXCHEQUER
'sill, it was not his inieutiou to propose any altera-
tion in th• autsr•illties.

Mr. BROUGHAM spoke on the subject; sad
Mr. ELLICE explained.
Mr. Alderman WAITIIMAN asked the Chan•
cellar of the Eschews, whether I. the consolida-
tion of the Cestoms Ditties he had net Included some
Wsr Ditties that woeld not expire nett )ear.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
replied in the neptive; and after *few remarks hoes
Lord MILTON end several other Members, t►e
Home went into a Committee on the Bill. _

On the clause being pet, which proposed a defy of
6d. per lb. on Sheep's Wool and lamb's Wool, im-
ported from' any part of Europe on end after the sth
of October, 1818, sod from any other part of the
world on and after the sth of January, 18W.
Lord MILTON said, of all the new duties which
had been imposed, there was none so impolitic, none
so injurious to the mansfsetstes of the country, as
the lien tea upon Wool. the staple of England. To
such an extent had the Chancellor of the Escbequer
carried this system of taxation, that he seemed to have
ascertained precisely what was the minimum of vital
air open which the commerce of the country could
exist ; het It would be discovered too late that the
Right lion. Gentlemen had over-reached himself, and
that, instead of increasing the Revenue, he had de-
stroyed the trade of the country. sod bad allowed
foreigner', taking advastage of the dilapidated state
of sec commerce. to seep those profits which ought to
have fallen into British bands. Ile pet it to the Right
lion. Gent.candidly,'whetket he really thought this a
proper opportenity to impose a tat which would be
felt by every class of the community ? When the
Poor Rates were iocreased to 50s. an acre io some
parts of the country, end when such was the impo-
verished state of commerce at this moment, a man
by hard labour in a 'manufactory, working between
14 and 16 hoers a day, could not gain more than
10s. a week, was it jest to lay new beriberi' upon
the People? Such a measure might indeed bring a
few. more pounds into the Eschews, but it would
have the effect of losing the affections of a loyal sad
'suffering People. This reflection was rendered the
more melancholy, whoa he Word that en actual in.
erase of salaries had taken place of officers wader
the employment of G meet, of 108,0001. the
greeter part of which was in the Customs. Ile ear.
neatly recommended the Right Hon. Gentleman to
withdraw this most unwise end impolitic measure. •
Mr. %V FSTERN spoke in favour of the has.
Mr. DICKINSON thought that it was impossible
to manufacture our woollen cloths without a certain
portion of foreign wool, and that this addittoost tag
would have a most injurious effect.
Mr. HUSKISSON supported the bas.
Mr. STU A RT WORTLEY thought this the most
detrimental tea that amid be imposed.
Mr. UOLME SUMNER expressed his approba.
Lion of the too, as a protecting duty to the agri-
celtatists.

Lord LASCELLBS rygordrd dill tax as of ~t es.
seasonablv. hopolaile,

Mr. 'bake inllitour of .be lac
Mr. LI-ITIGTON bogged pßitiewi•eitin re.
mark open sbo Fertility etnurdily of la)ind s tat r,
lb. manufacturing interns at this rtleis, when the
Poor !Wet were enormously incrested. elly.
been so raked by distress, sod this tits went to les-
UM. ibis di•lre•'.

Mr. 1)1111.1.11'.4, after •.Ruing el sent► Nevi,
against the nal, which pre.s of mistier slot.* pi...
tents from issertinn„ coneleded his speeds by Plying,
that the Of•OSUIO now proposed to lb. ifoose onold„
if psserd into a law, not only pros. most hostile to
the m•nafaetering interests, bat %retold elan prose in
its ultimo., eonsegrenco In be no less deigimentit to
the sorieoltoral interests of the enontry.

When Mr. Phillips had eonetoded his speech, airs
of question, question, and scillidrine, withdraw, re.
loaded from several pawls of the 11.sus•. the Mee
were. however, set by those of " Hart •hs,
in consequence roao, and argued at souse length
against the inannsitinn of these tasty.

Mr. EVAN. (we believe). though be bed sap.
ported the Ministry doling the war, and 'bough bap
was not •milling to support new uses. still felt It
bis duty to enter his most solemn protest spinet the
pret•nr tat —(Qoest ion, question!)

Mr. T. W11.10:SI (Lesdon), assured the MOP,
that when be informed them that he intended to say
only a few word., he intended in adhere strictly to
his preed-e. The words he had to suer were his
downright abhorrence cf the sac now proposed.
The question being spin called celled for, the
Hoe** divided-
-1?..r the Tat. Airtime it. to Slaierlty ter It. 4'l
The LIIAIRNIAN toen reported progreu, and
roweled leave to sit again.
The Charitable Foundations' Amendment Dill was
read a first and wend rime, and ordered to be read
a third time on Friday twit.
The [loose then resolved Itself Into a C0111114(Ips
on the Irish Fisherios Bill ; and the Report was or.
tiered to he received on Monday nest.
On the motion of Sir GEORGE HILL, Hulloes,
screed to resolve itself into a Committee es the Grand
Jury Itr.rtroimoor. Bill on Monday nest.
The Warden a the Fleet Prison 1111 was read a
third time and rus,ed ; as were tie SA Apprentices'
Bill, and the Peer Laws' Amendment Bill.

iR1:11 SMALL DMILLERY BILL.
Mr. SH All hoped the Itight Hon. the Chou:elk,
of the Ezebogoet 000ld not post Ibis abject is late
in she S. s4lnn.

The CHANCELLOR of do EXCHEQUER
felt hi■self bound in faith and Moamar to proceed is
it as early as possib!..
Af•er same enntersatioa between Mr. Shaw, Mr.
Daly, Colunel Barry, sad Mr. Musell, the Report
was ordeted to No takes tato farther tonsideraties oa
Wednesday neat.
_ _

The Ileum having= • deterullnition to re.
tole, itself into • C. of Woy lied Mesas es
Slonday neat,
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of,
end the Homo' adjourned at a Qtartet post Tim
o'Clotk.