The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-06-26 00:00:00

TIIE STATESMAN,

lood CASTLEREAGH% answer we could sot sum bad been charged in the estimates, that a greater
collect, but we believe it was in the maths. sum, ender the same item, was introduced iuto the
Caen PAYM PMTS. extroordinsries? This arrangement of the two esti.
Mr. PEEL celled the attention of the Resettle mates, sod the petting the slim seder separate items,
the amendment of the Lords to the Bill for regelat. was nothing 11184 n than perfect delusion.
ins ihe period at which Cash Payments shall be re. Mr. HUSKISSON thought that a considerable
united he the Bank of England. He referred to the part of the objections which had been taken by the
lteenletiori proposed .luring the late debate span the Hos. Gentleman had arisen, he would permit him to
taresete by Mr. Ellie, ; and observed, if we are not soy, from his not having taken a very correct view
edstaken, that the amendment of the Lords. altering of the nature of these Estimates. Sometimes he
the dice from May 1, 1811. to May 1. 1822. was talked of them as of accounts, sometime, as of Emi-
le/accordance with that lion. Gentleman's suggestion. mates. It would he loose satisfaction to the lion.
After a few words in further esplanation of the Gentlemen to he Wormed. of what he believed the
amendment, he moved that the House de cancer in it. House was not :gnor..nt, that there we, not (in re.
Mr. ELLICE did sot object to the amendment.— fer to what bad been said about the balances paid
Ile "ill adhered to his *dales' opinion epos this le different agents) one single shilling which was not
crest subject, and for the reasons he had pureloesly strictly acrouttied for to the Army Comptroller, or
stated. Ile lied only one word further to add, 81111 to the Auditors of public accounts.
that was an objection to the manner In which the Lord PA I.IIERSTON tumid take this opportu.
Bill was worded. Why had it not been framed more sky of adding, that the Hon. Member had fallen
simply. and according to the common sense @nil on. into the error of supposing taut there were thirty-sin,
derstuoling of the Public. Instant of being involved whilst in point of fact, there were bet thirty pro-
le what he must roll coickeries? lessors at the Military College.
Mr. MANNING in a very low lone of voice In reply to a questii:o from Mr. HUME, relative
made some remarks open the mode in which the ro the charge in India, it was stated by the CHAN-
Bank had been long in the habit of taking in and CELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER that it formed a
purchasing Eschegeer Bills. We understood the put of an open account. between the Government of
Honourable Member In contend, that the Directors the country soil the Droll India Company.
of the Bank &eight not to be so seemly censored for Mi. C. LONG said, it was competent to the Hon.
basing thought that the ienceof the Politic de. Member to procure the account by simply moving
pearled in some degree upon their determinations. for it in that form rehich appeared to him the most
Mr. Manning also, as well as we could collect, desirable.
argued in favour of allowing the Bank a wirier dis. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON wished In have some ea-1
nretion than was given by the Bill before the 11..iise. planation Respecting the item of 73,0001. on account
Mr. PEEL added a few words in explanation, re. of the Commistiarist and Audi(-General's Office et
twine to the mode in which the Bill bad been passed Lisbon.
through its sequel stages. The CIIA NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUF.RI
Mr. J P. GRANT thought the principle of the I observed, It at oho establishment had answerer( every
ameitilmen• wet calculated only to pat the matter to purpose oioginally contemplated. and that the great-'
the issue of an esperienern, which mould be attended, est eserti ,ns were now making to wind up every sc.
gas thought, with very enplessent collier; . count erring out of the late war. 1
Mr. PEA ItSF. said a few word". hut in so very The Resolution for voting the sem of 87,5311, for
low a tone of voice as to be quite inaudible. the 'winces of the Goverunietst of Collin' was then
Mr. HUSKISSON could not concur in the ob. agreed to.
jertion which had been taken to the amendment. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
The amendment was then put, and carded. EXCHEQUER, the Sum of 20,0001. was voted for
ARMY ERTRAORDIN %RIES. the trairaordinery espences of the Army in lased.
On the as..tiall of the 111ANCELLOR of the The Right Ilon. Gentleman neat moved for a grant
EXCIIEQUER, the House then resolved itself into to the amount of 1,000,0001. ass part payment of the
m Committee of Supply, and the titles of I do- sem of 2,000,0001., towards the re,dtir of fortifier-
cement referred Se the Committee were •..l titans it. the Low Countries.
The CHANCELLOR. of the r my, ~(lup:R. Mr. HUME enquired whether no part of this soot
moved that sun. ii.grenreil, not unveiling I 200.0001. bad been famished out of the Freorh contributions?
for defraying the Estraordinert Espences of the Army Th. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEII re- I
•of Great Bri•aln for the present tear. plied (as we understood), that the entire 'spencer
Col. DAVIES', after observing span the eterbi. would be ultimately chargeable upon these contribu-
fancy of the charges for the Military College, the I tiona, but that in the application of the money it was
Irish S•alf, and the Guernsey and Jersey Establi4h- requisite to make a previous grant from our own re-
sew., es detailed in the Estimate,. gave notice, that ; coerces.
be should early in the eassieg Session of Pediment I The rem of 100.0001. was then voted for the aid
mini • her the appointment of a Select Committee, to !of the Poor Clergy in England.
lake int.. cousiderstion every part of the Military On the motion for granting 10,0001. to the WA),
Exprnilitere. I Clew of Si-inland.
Lord PALMERSTON Ltd certainly stated, when j Mr. HUME enquired whether there was eel do.
the Army Esti.netns were under di-cossion, that the; cement that eoeld inform the Hour with re gaud I,
11if,6 part was ander consideratino, sod 'h., 8 tonal-
! Hhe mode in which this money was distribeteel.?
otereble reduction was cor.templaied. Ila had said, The CANCELLOR of the EXCHECAu ER en.'
that that reduction would be ianneclia,e ; and where.: served, that the distribution was in the
'Ands of the
as, formerly, there were seven General Officers on I General Assembly of Ike Kira of Scott
that Staff, they were now reduced to four.—[hear!] no ailment of it was is ',..as possess's:nand(' aGnoduthroat.
I
—Of course a corre.pooding reduction had taken moot.
place in the other appointments. With regard to Ice Mr. ARBUTHNOT moved, that the sum of
I
Military College, the Hon. Gentleman (Col. Davies) 48,9041. be ranter% for peyote,' tof the int due
onion have mistaken what had fallen from Aim (Lord' en the sem el 3V-1,0001. atlEalared to be advanced by 'I
Palmerston), !' he supposed that any reOllCtion was treaty to Ilis fiettegeees Government in the year
to be effected iii that Establishment in the present 1815 This tom having been voted, the following
year. items weir
•• so agreed to-43,0941. for sapplyine the
Colonel DA V 1 ES replied. defi'•reoe.ies in the Fe. Fund; 15,0001. fer the eui
Mr. HUME could not help esBre"lng his "'vet 1 •• nar ..,e certain improvements at Bangor Ferry, its'
that from all that bad just fallen from the Noble ; Nu• t o Wales.•nd 12,5001. for improving the harbour'
Lard, it was in vain to indulge any hope car 'aro'. lo' finiyht.A.
ties of a reduction In these 'spencers. There were Mr. ARBUTHNOT then unwed, that the sem of
37 Professors, maintained at a great rharce, to role . I 13.30 th. be
allowed for repairing the bubeer of
We 300 boys ; while the college at w...i.ich, r• ..,* L
ewe.
which the Engineer and Artillery Departments .acre
!Mr. HUME objected to this grant. as a miseppli•
supplied, sever cost the British Goeeritement
9.0001. cation of public money that would be more usefully
in any one year, although the school cr r,isle.l of employed in improving ibe harbour at Weymouth.—
the, same number of boys (300) The r•
.t•in. Stem. Ile was apprehensive that private sod local considers.
her then proceeded to observe upon 110 ,
. I items lions had too much influence in the adoption of this
thscrd in the account of these unto .
~ ",rninartes. One measare.
*,!„tbnallio,•*,..a.ar 1ia1innC...01f..6.71!..- .1. 18s. 101,1. to Mr. ARBUTIINOT and Sir JOSEPII YORKE
b—e-oo Governor the particular --- - - n exolanation Mad said a few words to justification of the grant, which
eteraelisenes
toowhich this they considered might be most beneficially applied.
money had been applied. l
appeared from I Mr WILLI AMS contended that the Roads of Port-
the" Ettletetna that °P. a. British Gosernment was land was the finest roadstead on the coast of Eng-
charged with the el,
~ping
of
Indies. lie alluded troops in the Matt land, and that there was not, with the @reception of
to an item. (at page seven) of Portsmouth, so commodious and isle a shelter in all
218,7481. 185. 441' • charged an account of disburse• winds for vessels of every &dentition.
meats and clotbi,,,. to the duo
Iteot corps serving in Sir JOSEPH YORKE admitted that the Portland
that quartet.--445,9141. war the charge for discus,. Roads offered a very secure shelter, but it wee on
rents; bet, realty he did e...,r know why the East In. that accented that the espenditere of money in their
dia Company should ••• pay the whole espence of improvement might be dispensed with. The port of
cletbLag these troops. Another thing upon *filch he Lyme was extremely valuable, as affording shelter to
bed to say a w°t'l ar r two was, the way in which the meeting-trade, and to vessels of small burden.
borne of the 'alone ea of the civil establishments were Mr. WI LLIAMS observed, that he bad seen large
charged in the Ar ,ay Estimates • es, for lettuce, in vessels completely embeyed, and lost in the roadstead
the case of the r jo„;toaty at iterated., the salary of Lyme.
a a private SW .retary was charged se dishersetlsmung After a few other remarks from Sir GEORGE
army ',Penal s ; this was in the Estimates, p. 4. oil- COCKBURN and Alderman WOOD, the Resole.
der the bear'. of " West Indies." It would be leen Mon was speed to.
that different spot' received different monies for A grant of 10001.10 the Board of Apical's,e was
Particular ser eir es, end he eat, therefore, surprised agreed to without any observations.
that "W.' la up balances were thrown into the Army The sem of 48,0001. was voted for repairing Bri-
P•.slirmles• Undid not know, nor did it appear, that flab forts on the Coast of Africa. This Resolution
those Ge Ablaut, as public accountants, had each of gave rise to a lengthened conversation, in which Mr.
shim hi • account with the Bank of England, which Arbuthnot, Mr. Smyth, Mr. Gordon, Mr. Marryat,
it "es generally understood they should have. He and a Member whose same we coald not learn, took
slake' ,A for information on this head. 3,5001. had • part.
b-:er paid to Sir Ralph Woodford, Governor of An allowance of 11751. was voted to Andrew Al.
"fri Mad, for the purchase of certain premises. 'rimy ley and Edwerd Stanley, two of his Majesty's leper.
'dui., es yet, no account of the Reeenue of Trin;rlßil ; soneated Consuls.
10. the was informed it was contiderbble ;if ..', the Mr. C. GRAN I' moved that the sum of 24,0001.
intiitinces of the colony should not exceed its lucerne, be granted for defraying the rapettr lie
esef the Ero-
otrd this charge should not have been made in 1118 tralllBt Charter Schools in Ircistsobserved
Army Estimates. He understood that 40 or 50,0001. that the chow for these Establishments last year was
bud lately been espended on building a church in 34,0001.. k' g •
ELLreduct d the attention ion this year of 10,0
the 001.
that island; how far the n. aaaaa • might he justified sir H. Plait; calleof Com.
what he considered a inisapplicetion of the
be did not know, but utiles' the income of the en..
!tiny was equal to the espenditure, k wee certainly It Funds of the Hoe of Industry in Dublin. At the
unativiaable. Hereafter he hoped no such espence j head of this lorditsegtion, which was supported by the
would be incurred littlest previous minutes to the • public money, were no fewer thin five persona re-
Governmeot. In the last estimates only 2.069 i. coiiiiie ontoantbrecbraegfeit •
rsalair.yedo n if 1811.eaacsabiaryThoef
ra
wen charged in the ealordinaries for closibitig : h-ruetory y
but in these 39,8811. 154. 9d. were charged for the , WU' • )e.r. bet it had since that period been raised
,
nate pupas's. How did il Wpm) after a spec& !to 5001! The Chaplain s salary in 1810 was only

, ___..A

301., bet it had subsequently been raised to 801 d
ultimately to 1301. The whole of the ealsaleit
amounted to 50001. while the total amount of the
funds did not much emceed 30,0001. The Hon.!
Baronet complained of similar waste in the epplice-
lion of the funds of other Charitable Inatitetioos in
Ireland.
Sir G. HILL enumerated the various advantages
of the Charter Schools.
Mr. HUNIE object'd to the principle of granting
money for clothing and maintaining as well as ode-
eating children. If the money thus voted yearly had
been applied according to the plan of education
adOplell he the Hibernian Society, it oneld have
educated 360,000 children. At this moment 60,000
children were receiving edecetion in Ireland from
last Society.
Colonel BARRY stated, that the Chaplain of the
House of Industry now received 1301. a year in con-
sequence of his having to officiate twice every Sunday
in a chapel built for the Institution in the vicinity
of Dablin.
Mr. ABERCROMBIE said, that the question was,
whether the money was applied in the m moat
generally beneficial. The sum of 62,0001. had been
espended in the course of the last 10 years in build.
logs. IVlsat might not have been dune if this WO
had been applied to education ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER!
agreed in the general principles ergot, on the other
side. But when money was appropriated in a cer-
tain twastrier by benevolent individuals, as in the
present ciao, Government could not interfere to use
tend either the original fund or the auxiliary grant.
; Mr. A BERCROMBIE espleined, and said; he too
j thought it would be enjestifiahle to interfere with
I private (untie.
Lord JOCELYN bore his testimony to the very
great benefits of the Hibernian Society. He also
praised the 1t.,. Mr. Thackarj's school.
Mr. C. GRANT protested against being consider-
rid pledged to diminish this grant nest year. Ile
speed in the praises of the school under the Rev.
Mr. Thacharj. Ireland appeared to him to be in a
state to require a stimulus to education.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON made some obeervatione
upon Ilse abuses of these charities.
The questiot., was then ageed to.
3.1.0111/1. weir volvi for tt,e roundnoir
ro,,erno rm.-meted fur the Home of Industry aria
f..r I.irigeo t midres.
Mr. AIaERCRONI HIE said, that he observed that
there germ, fire. Governors at 3001. a year. This ap-
pers.(' t.Ol hint an enormous expenditure.
Mr.. GRANT stated, that their duties were mock
increased in couaequence of the fever which had pre.
girded.
Mr. A BERCROM HI Esaid, that it wee the flambee
of g,• Gniet ~,,, to which lie objected. Tien Go-
milers. sill 5001. a year, would be quite sufficient.
Mr. HUM E said, that it was inconsistent that the
Governors should have got increased salaries on ac-
count of the fever, while the physician now apt erily
1821., 'he litre as in 1814. In England three was
lin instance of fire Governors of an Institetion. He
moved an amendment, that the sem of 30,3001. be

Mr. C. fIU. gnat if r.eso
Pro-
SW, %the Goa-rnment Pedris
alohlh Ness onnatjecioledly an unroons•ionoinnat nr.c.
1 ttlbWkwildsetS reuse the Press of !reliance hoot
is • lea ratftloyelly.
Mr. Flir'iCtlE PALMER said, that there was as
part of the Press which nos &vireos of sabvertlog
the Government. Part of it reitiinly end gni
to rehires abuses, anJ expressed their •opiorirools in
very strong langusge, which he tiro. eht 1114 the oust
likely method of prorloaring that ". loorm.
The gloomiest was them pot, sod retried in the an
firseative.
After the orariootov Resolutions were agreed to. a
M EM BER, whose now we co.old not leer's. objected
to the practice of Toeing tech Nig.. grams, *ohne'
estimate or notice. The only' norire that was aivews
was, that Mr. Grant meant to move the Irish Miscel-
leaven's Services.

On this a conaemation vowed, in which Mr.
Rank's, Mr. W. Smith, the Chairman, Ike Chan.
collo, of tho Exchequer, and some other Members
took part.
Mr. lIANKES nil, he was not aware that
en, awns were awed differontly from last year, and
his Right Freund (Mr. Grant) had sot been
sparing of •splanatinn.
Mr. W. SMITH said, he meant no disrespect ;
bat he wished to know what objection there amid
be le printing the Irish Eoimates ?
Mr. BANK said, the Report might he received
to-night. and ',d'art' for consideration on Monday.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, !be sonatinas could Not be reported to-night.
The CIIAIRMAN loft the Chair, the lloom re.
sensed, and the report r.f the resulations was ordered
in be received on Nlonday.
Mr. W. SMITH thosikt an order might be aside
for printing the resoletions before Monday.
The SPEAKER sand, the Homo might order the
estimates.

TheCil A NC FA.LOReftheEXCHEQUERaireed

to the printing of the estimates. +ldea world Ries g/
view along will, the English estimates of the 'bele
services of the empire.
'the Grand Jeri Presentment Bill was repotted.
To be read • third time on Tuesday.

.
The Church Bu ilding Amendment Bill was nom•
milted.
- •

The classes introduced were agreed to, and ii.
House frowned. The Report was received, sod
ordered to ha taken into (either consideration en
*feursday.
The Comett.i Recoveries Bill passed through e
Committee. The Batson was received. T. be read
a third time on Monday.
The Report of the Irish Clerk of the Peace Bill
was brought up. The Bill to be read a third time oa
'blonde!.
Mr. 1101. FORD obtained leave, and b,tteehf in a
Bill for the hatter ingtalaiinn of erratic.. at the Peni-
tentiary at Millhank. It was reed a first time. To
be read a second time on Monday.
Leave wet given to bring in • Bill for the better
regulation of the African Cnimpsoy. It wet Srneght
op. end read a first tsese.—Te be read a weed time
nos Tuesday.
Upon the motion of Mr. HUME, it wee ordered
that a return he 'vide of all Grent• toady t.. the Poor
Clergy of *inland, in the years 12116, 1817, sad
UHL distinguishing etch year.
Adjourn"! at half past 0... a'Cleck.

given.
Mr. C. GRAN r said, that he knew the trouble of
GUIPIIIVIS to be greet. If the Hon. Gentleman
wooed be lin kind at In withdrew his amendment for
this year, b► would ►ngoire into it, stid propose less
nest y►ar [near!)
Mr. li U NI I.; at one► withdrew his amendment.
Sir G. 111 LA, mills several observations nu the Is.
helloes flatlet per furtned by the Govereors, who were
all Clergymen.
Cul. DAVIES asked how, if they performed their
defies es Clergymen, they could perform such !ebo-
nies* ditties as Governori?
After a few farther observstiono from Sir G. Hill,
Mr. Wynn, Mr. R. Gordon, Mr. John Persons, Mr.
C. Iletchinson, and Lord Carbamploo, the rogation
was carried.
The steal grants of tie year for belted were then
put and carried.
On Mr. C. GRANT. wools; that a sun sot ea.
reeding.9,69‘2l. be granted to hit Majesty to defray
rho cba,ge of pausing Proclamations is the Gaulle,
and in other Provin(l.l Papers,
Mr. C. 1W TCHINSON rote, and said, that it
was something sespicioes that the same sem should
be demanded for the last as for the present year,
when it was well known that the somber of thou.
Proclamations could not be previously calculated

Wynn.
Mr. R. GORDON wished to know whether the
report which he had heard was correct, that Prods-
stations were only inserted in certain Papers, and
that they were given to those Papers... sort of cos-
pentation for the support which they gave to the
Government.
Mr. C. GRANT stated that this was the sem which
Pirliament were in the habit of grloting.
Mr. ISA NKES said, that a fair and reasonable dis.l
cretion ought to be left to Government repeats the
Papers in which they were to pebliah their ether.
tisements. It lass only a legitimate Influence over
the Press, which was gamed by such a mode of pro-
ceeding.
Mr. HUME coutended plait the doctrines of the
last weaker, and maintained that instead of befog a
legitimate, it was one of the most illegitimate iglu.-
paces which coeld be exercised over the Press.—
When one Paper had a circulation of 10,000 and
smother of 5,000 copies, was it fair to insert the
Proclamations, ihc. in the Paper which had the least
circulation, merely because it was the supporter of
Government. if it were necessary, be would pledge
himself to prove this fact to the satisfaction of the
Hoses.
Mr. BANK ES repeated his assertion that this was
a fair preference, for which Government ought not
,„ be blamed, If they did give it to particular Papers.
Whets he saw the Press not only lagged *pima the
present Government, bet even against all Govern.
meets, he thought that Gneerawnt was strongly
interested in the question, apd that it would be even
acting injuriously to itself and to the country, if it
did not retort to every 11111“111110 in its power to dia.
coentenanre such pehliestions.
Mr. II Li 515; said, that he had sever advanced any
such princiyle es that oSces ought to be given away
by lot ;if G moot had occasion to make use of
the Press. why not restrict itself to the Gascei:, over
which it noterioesly exercised maimed ?