The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-02-28 00:00:00

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ciseil under the Act. , kria;64lohlreaud Learned Lord.
bed then detailed ode; precedents to justify the late
Suspension and the present Indemnity Bill; but in
his (Lord lielleed's) *pinion they did net apply.
He bad alluded to the pretedeet ie Kiug
time, and hod mentioned that that eras a period when
the Government could not be scented of wishing to
exercise power at the espence_ of justice, and yet ,
that a Bill of Indemnity bad they passed. But it
ought not to be forgotten, that though the Govern..
rent of that Prince was in general wise and just, be,
was sarroanded by a party who, in their teal for
the °ratty interest, bad saceeded their powers. The
periods of 1715 and 1745 were equally dissimilar to
the present, and the precedents taken from them
equally inapplicable. At both theae times there was
a civil war in the country. The Noble end Learned
Lord, in recurrioj to the eneetmeut of the Habeas
Corpus in the time of Charles H.. had not
treated that great bulwark of our liberties with
sufficient reverence, es stated with sudicieot force
the importance and necessity of the circum.
stances which would justify its suspension. He
had praised this law itself ; bet be seemed, from
his language,. to think that " it lass more honoured
in the breach than the observance." At the period
of 1800, he remeashored the Noble and Learned
Lord had supported the Bill of Indemnity, on the
grsiund that the person who bail given information
might be in the power of the enemy, and therefore
that their names aught not to be disclesed. No pre-
tence of this kind could he now advanced. The in.
formers under the late Seepeatiosi Act were in no
danger.frons au enemy ; they would only be left as
they ought, by a disclosure of their name: andlesti.
teeny, to the execrations of their country, and the
burden of their own infamy. In ci!ing precedents in
their favour, oue of the Noble Lords opposite had el.
luded•to the Bill of Indemnity that passed the Irish
Parliament, and had said that posterity would judge
of its necessity and junco. 'fits judgment of every
impartial man who was /legislated with the cheeses
stances had already decided against that iniquitoui
Act. One of the greatest lawyers end ablest pond.
daos which Ireland bad produced had loudly de.
dared against it. The late Lord Avonmore had said
from the Bench, that thikoppressions suffered under
the Suspension Act ought to have been redressed.—
After having mangled the limbsof a roan without trial,
and without proof of guilt, it w 4 a horrible crime
to deny him redress by passing en Act to protect his
persecutor. Lord Avonmore regretted, when the
action was brought before him, that the Indemnity
Act stood in the say of the redress which his
'offerings demanded. The 'Noble Lord here reed
a part of the charge which. Lord Avonmore de-
livered to the Jury in a suit brought against
Colonel. Fitzgerald, to recover compensation in
damage, for torture alleged to be exercised by him
during the Irish rebellion. 44 This," said his Lord-
ship, " was an action brought by the Plaintiff to re-
cover damages from Colonel Fitzgerald, for acts of
cruelty and oppression committed against law." Much
had been said by certain persons about loyalty ; but
he,did not understand the meaning of the word when
brought as an apology for oppression. Loyalty, pro•
perly uuderatood, was another term for, legality,
and he who acted legally acted loyally. The Learn.
edJadge thou irking up the Act of Irsderunity, said,
that. to have damages the Plaintiff must not only
&bow that the law has been violated. but that it has
been violated in a way for which this Act did not
grant indemnity. Had this Act not stood in the way,
no damages could harebeen excessive for such atroei.
ties as those imputed to the Defendant; but the Act
interposed ea insurmountable barrier between injury
and redress, and set all justice still equity at defiance.
Bills of the kind now before the House, if passed to
bar the oppressed: from redress, would do more to
promote the cause of Reform than all the Petitions
about Anneal Parliaments. He did not wish to go
through all the Reports of all the Secret Committees ;
but becouW not help saying, let any one reed the
two first, and then consider the state of the country
as represented in the last, and lay his hand upon his
his heart, and declare whether she denzers were greatly
eziggerated.—Pfenr, hear!'—Witen it was icons is
that the Noble Secretary of State employed such a
character as Oliver; wt..° it was known that he
spoke of him wittrrespect, their Lordships ought to
look to the effect that such conduct would have on
the Magistrates. Some country Magistrate, the
little tyrant of hh owls &main might wish to irni.
tete the example of the Noble Secretary. He would
say, " I shall halo my Oliver end Castles; I shell
likewise have any correspondent as well as the Secre-
tary of Skate; I shall employ Spies to enable
some neighbouring Nobleman, with whom I wish
to higratiate myself by my zeal and my sub.l
tereierscy, to detect the peachevs on his estate."-"
It would be superfluous to point out all the rectifier-1
tions throvgb which the poison of soots an example,
might 'spread, destroying prisatecoefideace, correpts-
mug the honest feelings of the People, and setting
chess of men, or oae peat of the population of the
country, against another. If a proper opportunity
were offered, be would pledge himself to prose,.
, that so (tieback as-1812e similar systentof espionage
and disseosion • had cernnseneed in thii country. He.,
alluded to thedistrictseboot Bolton and Manchester,
where Orange Clubs were established, where spies
bad been for some years employed, and from whence
mesh of the iefoeme tiers .oar wtlieb she Government
bad lately proceeded bad comer Oa the bread
patocipie of.justior mil right he called apse the•
ligeststa throw oet4be peewee Bill. sod allow the
injured Instate-seek their redress. He" woeid most
decidedly give bin eoteagainst it. The -Bees* should ,
do south*. for character. He wee against the
, measure. altogether, bet would vete for the amities
lof his Noble Friend.
Lord SiDMOUTH beg*, by • obseetriag, that be
was not is person who could properly enter span a
discussion, the object of which was to indemnify
him for the way its which be-bed performed AM* falic...l
thins cotateitted heeler; bet' be•beel a motive for
rising, voile distinct from any personal considers.
Liens. He mast, in the first place, say, that than
who conceived that he asked isw this Bill. ire order
to preclude himself from the necessity of digclosing
the infertestiee *Nell hail come before him, come
pletely mistook Isis purpose and his character. The
individesis who had fruited their Dames to his cost-
fidence might have felt perfectly snare, even if this
were not paced; fur uo consequence which might

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lwootai his own liberty, Roper%
would ever have induced him to
Vitae !]—(;et then, the Noble
spoken lest, bad asserted that
tended as ea indemoity for the ,
hot for an individual upon 'bons
had. in a very few words, beeped more abase than
he (Laid .idmootb) bad evert littered against any,
but man. Rat he would tell that garble fined that be
was mistaken in his °Onions respecting that indi.
tithed ; the Bill did not concern him in any manner
whatever • he had done nothing thick could possibly
makes/14 opal necessary for his eeewrii.y; nu pin-
tail had been 'apprehended Ur consequence of informa-
tion from that quarter, nor had an) steps been taken
at his suggestion, or arising out of his disclosures.
The Noble Lord, not content. with 'entitle, his in-
dignation against an informer, bad gene further, sod
tented it en a body which had hitherto been intim.
peached —(No, no! front Lord Holiaiid.)—of that
useful body of men who were the main pillages( she
intense! strength of the country, and without whom
co-operation the patine, tranquillity could not be pre.
nerved.--(Hear. hear! )—These men did not deserve
to be treated with that levity which the Noble
Lord employed against them. As to the system of
espionage, Le disdained it as much as any man; he
abhorred with all his heart whateeer tended to shaker,
. the confidante of the private dwelling, et weaken the
bonds of social intercourse between man and mau
but when he was pieced in that.situation that aw
opportunity of wing his country front inturredio*
was presented to him by means of an informer, could,
be as am upright Minister, could be as an honest
man, reject such informationi lie only wished,
that he could consistently with his dirty disclose
what had been communicated to him : above au.,
he wished be could disclose what had pissed be-
tweets him and Oliver. He had, indeed, made.
a fell disclosure to the Secret Committees of both
Houses of Parliament ; so fell that he was not swat,
of a particle that was not in their possession :
wished that it were consistent with propriety to make
an equal disclosure to the country generally, that he
might state is hat related to Oliver, and show how
much the Public were mistaken in that man's motives
and conduct. He would broadly say, there was not
a single case of imprisonment, which, its his own
mind, or in the minds of any of those who hid M 1..;
cially advised it, produced the slightest feeling of self.
reproach: There was not one individual apprehend-
ed against whom he would not proceed in a similar
manner, under similar circumstance.—a(itear. hear!)
—The accounts of their treatment, as furnished by
the prisoners themseleer, were full of the grossest
misrepresentations and falsehoods, and he could enter
into particulars which would convince the House,
except that they did not concern the present discus-
sion He would not therefore touch upon them ;
indeed, his chief object in rising had been to sloe.
thiii!OliSter could not come within the scope of the
prevent Bill; for he had done nothing that required
*forgiveness or indemnity ; end he defied any Noble
Lord to say that he had made use of Oliver in any
way repugnant to strict honour, or strict law, or
that he had exercised any of his official functions
in ally way injurious to the Constitution.—[Hear!]
Rart GROSVENOR said, that nothing had oc-
curred which could justify the Finspeosion of the Ha.
bees Corpus Act. Noble Viscount bad defend.
ed Oliver, and not without cause; for, if Oliver
should tern out to have been guilty of the acts be-
littled to him, then the Noble Lord himself would
be answerable for the conduct of his scent, on the
common principle of Qui
,farit per aliuns, faell per ow,
The Earl of CAIINAR VON mid, the Noble.
Viscount (Sidmoutb) had commenced his speech by
disquslifying himself from taking any part in the pre.
sent discussion, and had fairly avowed what was lb&
fact, that he could not with propriety advocate
measure which was so personal to himself ; he trusted
that the Noble Viscount would carry it a step further,
and would give no vote on a matter so extremely per-
sonal.—[A laugh, and Ilear !]—Bat he should like to
know when and how the Noble Viscount had afilned
et this jest opinion ; for he (Lord Carnarson) could
not bat recollect that a few days ago that Noble
Lord had appointed himself to sit as Judge row his
own conduct, in conjunction with certain other
Judges all chosen from a list furnished by himself.
—[Heor, hear, hear!]—Since the appointment or
that Committee, several Petitions had been laid by
him (Lord Carnsrvon) upon their Lordships' table,
and be could not but think it a peculiarly hard case,
that these Petitioners could procure no hearing be.
fore the House, and that now they were also to he
shat out from all redress before the ordinary tribe.
nals of their country ; but what was scarcely less
.herd was, that the Noble Viscount should, in the
very face of these facts, get ep and declare to the
astonished ears of their Lordships, that he had
laid before the Secret Committee all the evidence
that could beprocered; all the circumstances of every
case. The Noble Viscount bad forgot, bat a °old
the House forget, that he had a very few slays ago
refused to lay them. Petitions before tbat Commit-
tee? When he first laid the Petitions es their Lord-
ships' table, with a &sife to make a motion on the
'abject, he was told that such a proceeding was pre-
mature, and delay was required. Well, after the in-
terval which had been begged of him, he briniest for-
ward his motion, but was then told that the Commit-
tee were about to make their Report, and that such
additional information would only puzzle and dis:.
tract them. And now that a Report was made, and
a Bill of Indemnity, its visual consequence, was
brought in, it was said the subject of the Petitions
should not be alluded to—it was quite irrelevant—it
mai too late.—(Haar, hear ! and a laaga.)—lle
wield conclude by impressing on their Lordships,
that on their conduct in this !nosiness- depeaded the
character of their Lordships,- the character of the
Ministers nay, the character of the injured Oliver
himself—(A laugh, and loud cries of hear, hear 1)—
far against him as well as ago/test the unfortunate
complaints's, whose petitions lay scorned and un-
heeded upon their table, would this Bill of lotlem•.
idly block up all the avenues of legal redress.—
(Neer !)--.lle shouta opposes he Bill in every stage.
The question was :then loudly called for, and the.
Hoots divided fur the Hilt being read a wiped times-
Comeau SG Non Comeau 15
Proxies 44 Proxies
1110 3i—majority 67.
Alooraed at Half-past Ten.

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ointmell es Mr. ,4F.14.., A. 4..„, ...order-
ed to he jaid before 'lie Hesse aT&cioutrun of Copper
*lib Melt Midi*: the telilrdr 411fddflkik kturtaty,'
.1118, 'Alm de Amami of the tpleatrlkeerrifrogled•
into Great ale, for the year eudinit dot? 241.40
slmliar Niffelli said also 61401410 be
enrababillbe bad herward had ilMedd, •
[1.1...10„ 4N UFA KITE
Mr Aldiestati w 000 ewttited the Pekitini lie
Mayne. AlleAseor led• • 4 he city of Maori, Atilitib
sue Bill demo twight be introduced Ws that Mouse foe Wear
allying Al Misters from the comequelen 4 the de its obit*
they had enforced rile Act of 164 tleiloo, sr ne the lariwa,
°writs. The nn.e.raMe Illdetßaaiaw btNiesyt teal thf raver its
the Petition. said he would sot sake op the time 4 the fliaseat
that mometo with ;ay remarks oa the übject, bat Would ie•
serve him,elf for the mterfritt *lwo sued a Bill attelst Mier been
imeedieed. He would merely say. that the Hell ta which the
Peonage ems agreed to wilt one of the mat mummies be hod
ewer withesied, nod dial only four hands bad bees held up
agtfiew the Pethitid.
Oa else ameoicto the! the Petition shield hem the table.
Sir W. CURTIs observed. that all be bad loony was, that ion
Jtild atteodett the H4ll ib question, and trait he emPproved of
!Veil/ Void 4 the Petition.
'lite Pvtitioat was then ordered to be rioter).
Mr. P. MOORE presen.ed Petitiosi from the Ribisand
%beater, of ii*ottrirt, end the allt. Whifteii of M:lrctecho i;`
tirebte
Wee Wsea Select ide midetwood thank the gilitegolitioi of. Wage. •
warAljettota.
Mr. Sherif Deithges relented a Petition free Ow LOC
Pistil... A klerowo, did Caatoorts of the City of Loadoo,
Cl hewn Coutscil assemblest,agattet Meet Aectioos.
Mr. Alderman ATKINS, le uterhe dim it should lie oit the
tat.le. represented to the Heme the frauds Met were committed.
in tbedb Asglowl. Afters very careful isorestigmitso if the et di
attendant on these Meek Aue ions. be tins enabled uatequiro.
rely to deckle. Oat so measure mild be mare generally soda
Miaow by othiehthey Amid be suppres,ed.
Mr. LOW I bliToN intscuated his acquiescence io the opiniod
tithe worthy Aide osita.
The Petilloa times thee ordered to he printed.
.Me, HAIN NOTON pretested a Tetanus' from the Attornieo
of Leicestel, praying lbw unqualified prowls might nut beat.
lowed to Shot Canveyilmeets.-Ordered to lie eo the table.
UAW.: LAWS.
Mr. G. BANK ES brought in a BM for the more erected%
prevent ion of offences eottnettel with the onion fat de,truct ion of
Gator —Read's( hew time, cod ordered to be read usecood time
ea Friday, the halt of April. and. to he orient!.
LEATHER TAX.
Mr. T.VOINITIVIN anted that there hr hid before that
House an He( omit of the intamml assome el the Ha t IPS OM lamthee
is Great Kritaiii, for the her years reef:ling the adoitimial tags
mid in Arcoent showing the annual amount of (how dui ies sioee
the:AC(4o.l tai, distinguisbiag le both sections the amount be
etch year.
The Accounts were then ordered to be laid.b,fore the House.
as were (on the flit er•tido of Lord ALT II Oil P) i aeco.ln Lte
with map* t totherPrewhhekti.
Mr. LUSHINGION brought up the Report 01 the Officre
Indemnity Bill, which 14 al. agreed to, and the Bill was (littered,
to be read t tutud time on Monday.
4.• ed A. 11 A MIL fON ore-enled a Petition from the Bar=
gere3 of the Rtnel Bergh of N'sgtowo, cuintilaiustie of abincs,
in the Lleetion of the Mac Write) 4 that Borough, and prify tog
for redrest.--Ordered to be printed.
CLERK itt* PARLIAMENT.
Sir M. %V. RIDLEY r4se to ask, Whether or sal'
it was the inter!tion of the lion. Gentlemen oppoiliUlt
thenaseives to more a new Writ for Southampton ?
Mr. S. BOUI4YE replica, that the fart was, that,
tie present Member for that Botottali had neither'
been sworn in to the °like of Cleuk of Pat liament,:
our had he appointed a Depoty.
Mr. BitOUGHAM said, the question was, bad he.
accepted the odice?

Mr. S. BOURNE said, that unquestionably he
was entitled to it by reversion. Still, however, Ito!
maintained that his lion. Frietidi. seat was sot vas
cited, mail he had actually taken posseeeion of tbs•
office, witch be hod not yet-doe.: Wwis reader
the motion for a new Writ, his Lien. Yrlead bad no
wish uu the subject.
I Sir M. W. RIDLEY observed, that being loserieifr
in the patent as entitled to the tesersion of the office,
the Roo. Gentleman came into pommies of it is.
reediately on the death of the holder; so that a new
Writ ought to have beee moved for within a short
period of that event. lie should now, therefore,.
move the Order of tine Day for:naming the arljoarnesk
debate on the motion for the Speaker to eases his
warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make oat at
1101. Writ for the election of a Burgess to serve in
the present Parliament, for the Towa and Coen/ of
the Town of Southampton, is the room of G. H.
Rose, Esq. who, since Ilia election, haJ accepted tbe
office of Clerk of Parliament.
The debate was accordingly resnned, and on the
motion of Sir M.W. RIDLEY the nest Writ was or+
dered.
REPORT or THE SECRET COMMITTEE.
Mr. BA ill llitiT appeared at the here, and brought
up the Report of the Secret Coweitittee. ft was rue
pidly read by the Clerk, and slated In substance' die
follows :
" The Committee to whom were referred the pee
iters in a sealed hag. presented to the figure of Com.
mons by Lord Viscount Castlereagh, by command
of his Royal nightie., the Priers! 11,g•tto, In oeler
that they might examile into the newer of them, and
Report as they should see cause, 'Tafe in purima,mt
of their ins' ruct; ons, entered into the investigation
of those papers, and have agreed to the folloeitig
Report :
" The first object of the Committee in the exami-
nation of the papers submitted to them, leis been to ,
erns a justestintate of what has been the ititernal state
Id the coons?'" Juin) the period when the Secondlteport•
of the Secret Covenittee of last Session was present-
id to the House.
66 It 'appears that an insurrection broke net on.
ithe 9th of June last, on she bort!ers of Yorkshire.
and Derbyshire, shortly before the Second Report'
of the Committee of last Session *so laid before the
I House; but that the arrest of some of the principal
leaders deranged the designs of the dieaa,cted, that'
various obstacles delayed the execution of a sit:mita.,
neous Alen of iota, k on No: l ghem, which they bad;
projected, and firefly, that they wee wholly dia.
persed by a military force assembles! fur that purpose.
" The suppression of this insurrection which bad.
evidently a resolution for its object, the apt:ellen•
.
,!sell of most of the rimy persons engaged in it, the
trials which took place in the Courts of Law of solve.
fur flies Treason, and the salutery detection of
otbers ender thg Act of last Sento*, to empower his-
Majesty to secure sod detain inch-persons as hie
Majesty should suspect were cut ',AN; against his
person and Government, frustrated the violist de-
signs of the turbulent in those districts.' JI3eI the
spirit of disafrectien was not entirely. eselngßisbed,
and further proceedings were found to be tteceseary.
46 In the course of the succeeding month, bids of•
FdicAlsent for High Treason were found by the
Grains'(`! tiny, at the Anises at Derby, agsfust 46 of
the persocieherged with having teen cog lei in the
.
insurrection.' fu the month of October, before a

lefty, or imputation,
Ortwral §jorest é ined Pethiei from tatter at in:
LaUSE OF COMMONS.
" obis Lord who had ada
bpiisiiati alf. esaipiaintag at' the dioreitei. sunder whit*
' lalerod 644etMe rdier*
the Bill was not in. Petn , tram th- rporation of Toilets' is Dahlia, AA
he gni eta lit of state.
• riled the"
Tat.-0 insolititraiiereitektrall the
Leal
Moto that NOble Lord tht the taiiilaspal. ?fr. GitIiNF.E.P., A4:04;1t Wag "lief'