The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-11-11 00:00:00

t him. —He si

Mr. HODGSON
chooses to bark from his tub

ye made no rap

_
him bark ! Cheers.)
The MAYox interfered.—lt would be quite impossible to
conduct the business of the council if such recriminations as
these were allowed. He was sure that if gentlemen would
but consider, they would see how much it was for the cha-
racter of the council that these_exoressions should he avoided_

He made no allusions to particular individuals; but he
knew that such expressions had been made use of in that
room, and the sooner they were abandoned the better,
(Cheers.)
Mr. EARLE said, his temper was rather warm, and he
could not allow the party to which be belonged, and which

against it upon every occasion when that gentlernal
Mr. MOLYNEUX moved that the number of the c

consist of fifteen.
Mr. Atxtrt moved,

an amendment, that it consist of

seventeen

Mr. BIRKETT denied, as had been asserted by Mr. Earle,
that the funds of the parish were taken for the instruction
of persons in the workhouse in the Roman Catholic religion
The poor-law act only authorised the payment of a chaplait
who must be a member of the Established Chu
license

come in on courtesy to those

would be illegal to pay Lim anything from the parish funds.
Mr. SHEPPARD, as a poor-law guardian, begged to confirm
what Mr. Birkett had just said.
Mr. BIRKETT added, that in his opinion, instead of an
" addition," Mr. Blackburn would subtract from that which
was right if placed upon the commatee.
The MAYOR thought they were again deviating from the
question before the council.
Mr. LACE inquired whether the council or the committee
had the regulation of the system in the schools ?
The MAYOR said the committee had the appointment of
the system, but their proceedings were all confirmed by the
council, and, of course, it was in the power of the council to
approve or disapprove of their acts.
Mr. LACE said that if the exclusive arrangement of the
schools were with the committee, lie should, perhaps, vote
differently from what he intended to $ll.

twarstßY recommended Mr. Aikin to withdraw his
amendment. He (Mr. Aikin) had said he threw it out in
the hope that it would be taken up by the chairman of the
committee ; but as it had not been so taken up, and as it
was the general opinion of the majority of the council that
no liberal should be on the committee, it would be almost
factious to divide the council on such a question, which, after
all, did not involve any matter of principle.
Mr . Ancirt was rather inclined to differ from Mr. Hornby.

He proposed his amendment, not from any factious otpaii'y
spirit, but because those who thought an arrangement might
be made, thought also that that arrangement must emanate
from the committee. He did it solely with the hope that
those who were moderate in their views on the question
might record their votes, and show that they had a sincere
desire to bring it to an amicable arrangement. (Cries of
" Vote, vote.")
Mr. EVANS said they had heard a good deal about prin-
ciple. He considered the principle of the Education Com-
mittee was education. He considered all the committees
of the council were, as it were, the council. They were SMP'
councils, and ordered exactly to debate and discuss
questions in a small way, in order to prepare them fi
council in a large way. Now, to exclude out of the
all the means of discussion, in his opinion
the committees in a great degree abortive in the object fo,
which they were formed. He considered they would, in
every way, defeat the end of committees by excluding
those who would properly discuss every subject—and, on
the other side, that they would overwhelm the Council with
details and discussions that would never be carried to an
equally complete point. He would remind the committee and
the council that it was rather dictatorial in anybody—it was
a presumption unwarranted either by fact or by reasoning—
to say that either the committee or the council had a right to
declare that the existing arrangement of school education
was an unalterable principle. As it was going on now, he
would corroborate the assertion of Mr. Earle, that it was
going on at variance with the principle of the legislature that
created town-councils. They were excluding, locally, Catho-
lics, while the legislature were providinglor their education ;
and here was now the most monstrous principle he had ever
heard asserted, that they were not even to let that very com-
mittee who were ordered to decide on how the education
should be conducted—that they were not to let into its body
any of those who were already committed on one point. He
certainly should, if the question with regard to the number
of the committee were negatived, move an amendment at
least upon one name.
Mr. SANDS said it would, no doubt, be in the recollection
of the council that, twelve months ago, they had acted on the
principle just recommended by his friend Mr. Evans. The
conservatives at that time felt their position was strong
enough to be liberal, and they put on three of the opposite
party. He had the moving of the committee upon that oc-
casion, and Mr. Platt and two others were put on. It had
been found in the working that this was an unwise plan.
(Hear.) They found that one or two of those gentlemen very
much thwarted their views, not only in the committee, but
when the proceedings came before the council, they some-
times said, " I decidedly objected to that in committee,
and shall state my objections here." In the formation of the
committee this year the conservatives thought it much better
to avoid the occurrence of a similar inconvenience, especi
as the gentlemen opposed to them wished rather to b... -
the committee ; and upon those grounds it was that the con-
servatives had proposed the committee which the Council
had just heard read.

council

s to rende

left off

Atxtiv saiiihe would save time by withdrawing his
amendment, believing, as he did, that the gentlemen named
were determined to have the whole credit of making a liberal
change, such as would be satisfactory. (Ironical laughter.)
He might say also he had reason to believe that if some such
measure were not brought before the committee it would be
brought before the council in a more substantive shape.
. Mr. BUSHELL asked whether Mr. Evans would consent to
have o►► the Dock Committee those who were inimical to
warehouses on the dock quays?_ (A laugh.)

Mr. EVANS said he should desire it above all things, be-
cause many had come upon the committee who were IA first
inimical, but, they were so well convinced afterwards, that
they dropped into his views.
Mr. BUSHELL rejoined that if he could hope for any such
result in the case of Mr. Hornby and Mr. Blackburn, he
would consent to have them on the committee. (Hear, hear,
and laughter.)
Mr. MOLYNEUX here proceeded to read the names of the
committee. When he came to that of Mr. Hodgson,
Mr. EVANS said, I will not act up to what I said with re-
gard to moving an amendment. lam quite content with the
demonstration which has been made on our side. Anything
else I think would be useless.

Mr. HODGSON.—That gentleman must have extraordinary
confidence in his powers of conversion if he thinks, though
he can convert those on the Dock Committee, he can convert
those who are acting on principle in the schools. (Hear,
hear.)
The committee, as previously proposed by Mr. Molyneux,
were then agreed to—namely, Messrs. Chilton, Crook, Ed-
wards, Harbord, Hodgson, Molyneux, Holme, Houghton,
G. H. Lawrence, North, Rae, Sands, Shand, Shaw, and
Thompson.

GAOL COMMITTEE

Sir THOMAS BRANCKER moved that the Gaol Committee
consist of the ten following gentlemen :—Messrs. Hodgson,
Houghton, jun., Sands, John Holmes, Hornby, Aikin, Leigh,
Evans, Earle, and the Mayor.—Agreed to.

Mr. G. H. LAWB.ENCi expressed a hope that all con-
tracts would be under the Gaol Finance Committee in
future. (Hear.)
At the request of Mr. LLOYD,

The TOWN-CLERK explained that the council had not only
the building, enlarging, and repairing of the gaol, but the ap-
pointment and dismissal of the officers and the maintenance
of the gaol with provisions, and consequently the making of
all contracts—in fact, they had everything which formerly
belonged to the justices, except that the justices had the
regulation of the gaol subject to this provision : that no order
made by the justices, which required the payment of money,
should be in force until confirmed by the council. The Town-
Clerk conatided by saying it was desirable that there should
be a cordial understanding between, the committee appointed
that day and the justices, because difficulties might otherwise
occur causing conflicting determinations.