The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-07-11 00:00:00

~cu knowledge that there was nothing in
••nits this country, with which the Scol
leased ?ban the skill, the learning, and ti
hich their Appeals were decided by than
puma of Lord Eldon as Judge. 'They migh.,
t••ink that in some respects be varied from former
• ions, some of those decisions being his own; but gene-
r.,lly they. all approve of Lord Eldon and of Lord Redes-
•lale, the other Learned Lord, who sgave up his time to
the hearing of their cases, and both gave the greatest
.atisfactitra to the Scotch lawyers. Nothing could satisfy
- then less, or could so effectually shake their confidence
nt the rectitude of the Lords' decisions, than to deprive
' . bent of the high judicial character of the Lord Chancel-
lor. His rank, his experience, and his judicial integrity
s..*e a confidante to the country, because he was ready to
....once upon the Courts below if they appeared to him
to attempt any thing like injustice. He never heard harsh-
r Lingnage from any Judge than hedid from thatNobla
tad Learned Lord from the Woolsack upon smile question
• twit rams before him from the Judges in Scotland. It
*as the case of en extravagant charge of a factor—so he
o was called is Scotland—against a minor in doing hospi-
:ality and treating persons with meat and drink, as was
final on such occasions. Lord Eldon asked the agent of
• .las factor if it was near a circuit town he had made
'yoga charges--desirous to know if the Judges or
.• l..wyers formed a link in that chain of hospitality,
• with that caustic observation he at once disallowed
vie Pill of charges. The Noble Lord's character in-
•,•ired a salutary dread in the Courts below. 'Nothing 1
1
. ••c was convinced could so much affect the appellate
„niiadiction as the proposed change. No intermediate,
ourt of Appeal would give satisfaction to the people of
, cotland. Ile spoke with respect to all those who might
. fam such a Court. Suppose such a Court to be composed
. . f the Lord Advocate and of any of the Ministers—sup-
t ftle it to have among its Members Mr. Clarke, a man of
. Or most punctilious honour, and Mr. Cranstoun, whose
i•itegrity and honour it was impossible to impeach or
• • ..pest—suppose au intermediate Court of Appeal to be
.owposed of such men as these, yet that Court could not
. I sesstisfaction LS a Court of Appeal, because the Judges
. allimsing a Court of Appeal most be outside Scotland,
. 'saving no local interzst nor connection, mast beabove
..pieion. lie ,should not, therefore, be disappointed if
House of Commons, when the question caine before
rem, would negative those two branches of the Lords'
• :.port- lie was satisfied, in the first place, that the
• ...omission was desirable if able men were chosen to
•▪
e moose it, and great good would result from it. in the
nod plane, he was of opinion that nothing further
• iglit to be done by the House of Lords in the present
In the third place, the Lords ought to under-
- , kr nothing in so serious a business, but in•concurrence
• .t 1; the House of Commons; and in the fourth place, be
4.. convinced that the people of Scot:and would never.
• .istislied with a Deputy to hear Appeals in the House
•• Lords. They ought not to be hurried into a new
or.e by the present , particularly as that could
..t lier wise disposed of.
.1.116 ATTORNEY-GENERAL said be did not mean to
•t. into the range of argument adopted by his Honourable
*ill Learned Friend. With respect to the Bill before the
• . Look., his Honourable and Learned Friend complained
it was not confined to the purpose of inquiry Into the
.tetris of Law in Scotland. Tne House of Lords appoint-'
• J Committee to inqu've whether some mode might not be
n t pied to get HI of the present arrear of Scotch Appeals,
.4 to prevent the accumulation of them for the future.—
Hat 'inquiry was very properly executed by the Lords'
• ..t.pitt.e. In pursuance of that inquiry, the Lords in-
: .oduerd a Bill which was then under discussion before the
I,tlSlr. They considered some reform in the Courts of Law
•• stn olls's(' necessary to prevent the accession of Appeals.
Wi ih.t Bill and of its objects, his Hon. and Learned Friend
t,•proved. But the Intern: diete COallaillaioo, of which his
Friend disapproved, was deserving of the grPatest at-
• ;ion. lie did anticipate great benefits from that Coes-
tsion. by Its reducing the number of Appeals. As his
II ,:towable and L. limed Friend agreed that the Bill was a
••:.‘1 one, he would not make any :urther observation; on
.. Rut it was not right for the other Haase to stop them
• nilow the large errear of Appeals now before them to
•:1.111 'indisposed of. Of the 221 causes of Appeal now la
• • 181 of them were from Scotland. It was highly ex-
oil to get rid of those Appeals, and to obviate a future
.ion of tnem. He thought that his Hon. and Learned
most unfairly attacked the Lord Chancellor as if he
(I to be relieved from Ills official duties. The object
ic Lords was to get rid of the
o ;ire relief to toe Lard Chancellor, except so far as
• ~cotch causes were concerned. With strong satire, and
• . . hohis usual humour, hi, lion. and Learned Frieod con-
! that the I.lrd Chancellor wanted to relieve himself
' . his officio I dull 's, in order to give up more time to
Rut the Lord Citaneellor's political avocations
• • • not allowed to interfere with his judicial functions.-
- oc.it was, that no Lord Chancellor ever did give more
to the Court of Chancery than Lord Eldon. No Lord
•tcellor riser did the business of equity with more expo-
:a—(lleat, hear)—than Lord Eldon. It was not right to
t that that Noble and Learned Lord wanted to get rid
•to business to attend to political concerns. It was never
- tiled by the Lnrds, in their Report, that the office of
• •• c-llor should be given to a Curt favourite, or to any
et than a person fully competent. His lion, and Learned
.. end should admit that the Lords had a right to arrange
nod iu what manner the Members of their own House
• .r to all, without c•msulting the House of Commons.—
,b respect to the expense of the new appointment, the
. se would, when a vote for that purpose came before
. 1,6. e so opportunity of exercising their cuntreul, and
• •.0 d not agree with his lion. Friend that the object of
• T. mit was to refuse such controul. It was impossible
• -I rid of the present arrears without the appointment of
• :watt. He would admit that that appointment was not
ciut Its difficulties. But the question was, whether it
it better to appoint a Deputy than to delay the hear-
: A' those Appeals in such a manner as to amount to a
• •al of justice?—whether the evils of delay were not
. ...ter than the d,fliculties attending the appointment of a
•sty to preside in hearing appeals in the absence of the
• f. red Chancellor. He could not see how those arrears could
• therwise got rid of. The Chancellor would not be idle
are meantime, but would have the Court of Chemistry to
. mt. and would also preside occasionally at the appellate
.v/fiction in the Lords. But in respect of the increased
ewe of Scotch Appeals, it was necessary to give the
L.rd Chancellor some aid for five days In the week, at those
• in winch lie could not attend. Another difficulty was,
• ...• liter, while the Lord Chancellor and the other equity
• vies sat in the Courts of Chancery, competent and 8015..c00l
..cool Barristers would be found to attend the Deputy
. •
atter in Appeal cases la the Lordt. He believed a regu-
:.r sufficient number of Scotch barristers would come
would °online themselves to that branch of the profes-
ses.. lie was led ti anticipate that a great diminution of
• Ws Appeals would be the result of the present and
I.e• saerefore approved of it.
%Ir. CANNING said that with respect to the plan pro-
he would not then offer any opinion, as he would
.I°.er wait for some eaperleace of its workings. There
however, but one opinion on all hands as to the exist-
c. c- of certain evils which it was desirable to get rid of;
• ”tt if the plan could effectually do this, it deserved a trial.
acre was but one point to which be would direet his anen-
t' 'u at present. The Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham)
expressed an apprehension that the election of a Deputy
iirtnan would, in fact, be an appointment beyond the con-
. • •11; of the House of Commons. That apprehension was
well founded, as the situation and duties of that office
- annually come before the House. when the votes for
. sa'aries of the officers of the other House of Partiamist
a: cording to custom, .submitted to the Commons. A
• e..ssion of that nature took place in ISIS, when the vote
s proposed for the Earl of ithaftrmbury, as Chairman of
. 'moistures. The mode now adopted, was One giving the
ems the fullest controul as to the salaries for all oMeers,
. 'mug which the proposed appointment would he. found; It
• .0 that of voting not retrospectively in the civil condo-
• ,etes for these salaries, but prospectively by estimate.
.f VI that reason, whatever objection there might be to the
• instioa of a salaried officer, there could be no question

t0.,,1N ft.

\

his lion. Friind observed, that the subject should be }oily
Investigated before the appointment of the officer, then atter
the experiment was tried. He regretted that an culler
opportunity had not been afforded the House to express an
opinion upon it. He objected to it on the first and only
occasion when the Session might be truly said to be
nearly expired. In ant:eller place they were told that it
was too late a period to bring forward a Bill which went
to relieve a certain portion of his Majesty's subjects from
the exclusion to civil rights, but it appeared not too late a
period to Introduce a Bill like the present, involving that
right in which all were equally interested, and the pro-
perty of every individual concerned. The subject was
one of great Importance to the hulk of the people, but more
partieularly to the people of Scotland. Their dependence
on the Rouse of Lords was shows from the number of
appeals themselves. The Hon. Member then prooseded to
remark en the state of the Court of Chancery. He was not
eertsta whether the Honourable Member for L nimbi (Mr.
Williams) intended to bring the state of the Court of Chan-
cery before the House in the ensuing Session.—There never
was a question which excited so deep, so strong, and so ge-
neral an interest In the public mind—whether he would or
would not go forward, the public mind would proceed. The
public would not stop—it had taken a strop hold on There
the public mind, and could not be displaced. was
one objection he had to the proposed measure, which was,
that it would in some cases make the Deputy a greater per.
son than the Chancellor himself. if the plan should be ear-
ried Into execution, every one of the present Appellants
should be allowed the election of withdrawing their appeals.
Hy the appointment of a Vice-Chancellor. the Chancellor-
was relieved from the greater part of the burdens of Chan-
ter* and by the plan now before them, he would be re-
*Ted from the burden of his duties In the Douse of Lords.
What he did therefore object to was, that the measure would
have the effect of stripping the Lord Chancellor of judicial
•
functions, and prove truly the means of relieving a great
officer of his more solemn and natural duties. It would
lead to the entire fulfilment of a prophecy which he regretted
to see was every day more likely to he iftmomplished, that
the Lord Chancellor would become solely apolitical cha-
racter. He would be left a political personage, without
sympathy or knowledge of the Der, and to distrioute re-
words or give elevation on political motives only, without
reference to the legal merits of the ludlviduals. He objected
to the measure as a great evil to the people of England's
end he objected to any part of the law of England being left
to the decision of an inexperienced person. and that all
that was useful and respectable would be taken from the
station and character of the Lord Chancellor.

Mr. WILLIAMS (of Liacolo) said that he objected to
the measure, as an experiment likely to lead to no good,
but which might do harm. He objected to its being
brought before Parliament at that late period, when so
many Members had left town, and when so few of the
Scotch Members, who wereniost interested in the subject,
remained. This, he contended, was the proper time for
discussion, for when the appointment came to be made,
and a Hentleinan had been installed into the office, there
would be a degree of invidiousness inclining his title into
question. Upon every ground of propriety and paler, the
inquiry should precede the measure; but here the House
had began at the wrong end, for the plan was formed be-
fore they had ascertained the grounds upon which it was
to he executed. It was not true that this question was not
intimately connected with the duties of the Lord Chancel- I
for. But a good-deal of illiberality, he was obliged to say,
was shown by Henilemeo opposite, when any allusion was
made to that Learned Person who now filled the Woolsack.
Whenever any doubt was raised as to his being the wisest,
as well as the most rapid Chancellor we have ever had,
these observations were invariably characterized as per-
sonal abuse, and thus the question was ever evaded. He
contendedthat the Committee should have sought better
evidence than the three or four Noble and Learned Lords
whom they examined in the tithe Howe. It had been
said that as much as was in the power of man to do, had
been done by the present Lord Chancellor, id " keeping
down" the business of the Cond. Bat what is the testi-
mony of the lete Sir Samuel Hominy in this respect ?
In speaking of the accumulation of business at different
times in the Court of Chancer3r, be stated that, in the
time of Lord Hard wick., instead of the Court rising at
two o'clock in the day, it more frequently rose at two in
the morning—{Hear.)—He believed that more might be
done in this respect: and be was also persuaded that the
Equity Judges were sufficiently numerous for the dispetch
of all business which could come before them, without
adding to their numbers. Upon the plan proposed by
this Bill, he had only one or two words to say, It was
admitted that the Scotch were already dissatisfied with
the decisions of their Judges but how was that to be
amended? Four Lords were to be appointed as Commis-
sionere (persons no otherwise knowing Scotch law, than
...they were presumed to be lawyers by the Constitution
—a fiction of law, not a fact,) to whom were to be added
an auxiliary in the shape of a lawyer, and this was the
tribunal which it was supposed would possess more wis-
dom, and know more Scotch law, than the collected
Bench of Scotland. But, in fact, however courtly it might
be done, the real object was to relieve the Lord Chan-
cellor from part of the Appeal business, and give him
more time to attend to his own Coma. and this was to be
done at the expense of the Scotch suitors. Some short
time ago, his Lordship was relieved from the business of
his Court by the appointment of a Vice-Chancellor, and
lie was to be relieved from the appeals to be sent back to
his own Court. He (Mr.W.) believed the new office to be
perfectly useless, and as he wished to bring the whole
waiter before the public, he now stated, that early next
Session he would move for an inquiry into the delays
of the Court of Chancery, and the cause Of those delays.
—(Hear.)
Mr. Secretary PEEL said there were four reasons why
he had not entered more fully into this subject before;
first, that two speeches had been made upon his side, in
which he concurred; secondly, having been exhausted
from the fatigues of last night ; thirdly, because the Hon.
and Learned Member h ad stated his intention of laying
the whole matter before the House early next Session ;
and fourthly, because he concurred with him is the views
which he took of this Bill. As to the expediency of the
office, be thought the better time for discussing that
would be, when the officer's salary came to be voted early
next Session. It would not then be too late, for the officer
would not have been in office more than ten weeks, and
the stopping of his salary would be an unequivocal
mode of expressing the sense of the House upon this
subject.
Mr. WETHERELL said no one had pronounced an
unqualified eulotiuw upon this plan, which was at best
but a choice of difficulties. The legal Corfiniissioners
proposed by the Bill was not likely to be a perms-
neut office, tor the exertions of the new tribunal would in
a little time greatly diminish the number of Scoth appeals,
and it might be therefore expected that the Lord Chan-
cellor would be soon restored to all his functions. He
was as anxious as any one to uphold the Ligh office of
Lord Chancellor, and he would be the last to vitiate or
encroach upon it, if he were not urged to it by a press-
ing necessity.

Mr. DENMAN looked upon the proposed legal Com-
missioner as an ignoble appendage to the high office of
Lord Chancellor, and it was with reluctance that he should
feel himself called upon to vote a shilling to support this
proxy Judge. He hyped the Hon. Member for Aberdeen
(Mr. Hume), whom he saw in his place, would look
closely to the Civil Contingencies next Session, when
the salary of this officer would come to be voted. He
watafraid that the suggestion bad been as originally
in order to increase judicial patronage, which was al-
ready too extensively and often improperly exercised.—

R (1:4

was induced to make from the Mem-
a (Mr. Brougham), and the Member
Williams), were treated, who, be con-
ban been placed in the front of their

then read a third time and passed.
ABOLITION OF SLAVERY.
Mr. WILBERFORCE gave notice, that to-morrow, be
would move for a Committee to inquire into the condi.
Lion of the slaves sod free Indians of Honduras.
Lord A. HAMILTON presented a petition from some
town is Scotland, praying the total abolition of slavery
in the West Indies.—Laid on the table.
LIBERTY OF THE PRESS IN INDIA .
Mr. HUME said he had a question to ask of the Right
lion. Gentleman opposite which nearloncerned the
liberty of the press in India. He had bard that after
the Marquess of Hastings left the country, the new 0.-
sernor caused Mr. Buckingham. who for malty yeambeil
been Editor of the Cake:tit Jerrie& and was s roost ra.
spectable man, to be sent to Europe, in punishment of a
charge of which be bad bees tried aid acquitted a consi-
derable time before. He wished to receive an answer as
to the truth of these facts.
Mr. WYNN said that he had that morning heard that
Mr. Buckingham had been ordered to leave India. This
set, however, bad no reference to the charge alluded to
by the Hon. llember, but was for a repetition of the same
conduct for which be had been cautioned by the Mar-
quess of Hastings some time before, that if he persevered,
be would be obliged to put the law in force against
him, and send him out of the country. He (Hr. Wynn)
bad not had time to examine minutely the papers eons
netted with this affair, but from the general good
opinion which he had ofAir. Allen, he was sure that no
act bad been done by him is which he was not warrant-
ed. He wished it to be understood, however; that he
did not speak from official knowledge, but from the con-
fidence which he placed in the Gentleman to *lsom he
bad alluded.

• QUARANTINE LAWS IN MAUTA.
Mr. HUME said, that in consequence of information
which be had lately received, he was indticed to bring
forward the present motion regarding the Quarantine
Laws of Malta. By this information he had received
an extract of a letter from Lord Bathurst, whether it
was correct or not he did not know, which stated that
his Lordihip saw no reason for altering the Quarantine
Laws of Malta. The mercbints bad received this intel•
ligence with the greatest alarm. It was well known
that the European Powers bad forayed a Code for the
purpose of preventing the importation of the plague.
In the year 1813, it fourid Its way to Malta; and shorily
afterwards, a breach of the Quarantine Law took place
there, which occasioned the placing of Malta oat of the
European line. Notwithstanding this, Sir Thomas
Maitland bad been allowed to land, in spite of the sup-
posed danger of infection. He thought the Commercial
Interests of this conntry at Malta ought to be protected,
especially as Malta had been thought of consequence
enough to justify our going to war about it. In France
the laws were very strict; the Duchess of Berri in one
instance, and the Duke himself afterwards, bring obliged
to perform Quarantine at Marseilles. All that the
people of Malta desired was, that the rules might be
certain, and might not, if once made, be relaxed, ior the
convenience of individuals. He wished therefore for
copies or extracts of the correspondence between the
Merchants and the Colonial Office on this subject. He
complained also of the imposition and increase of duties
on importation at Malta, made by Sir Thomas Maitland.
He moved therefore for " copies of all correspondence
between the Hovernment of Malta and the Colonial
Office, and the Committee of Merchants at Malts, re-
specting the quarantine regulations at Malta."
Mr. W. HORTON opposed the motion. The Committee
of Merchants had admitted that, in point of regulation, the
Quarantine Law was perfect. In practice be contended it
was impartial. The landing of tlir Thos. Maitland was jus-
tifiable, under the peculiar circumstances, the plague not
basing appeared for 10 years. All the other Islands of the
Mediterranean had adopted oar Quarantine regulations at
Malta. It was a little remarkable that the Merchants some-
times admitted that the foreign regulations were too lax, and
hoped they would not be adopted as a precedeut in this coun-
try; and at others, complained of them as being too severe.
Mr. Hums shortly explained ; and, after a few words from
Mr. W. HORTON, Hr. Huns withdrew his motion.

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their connectiJn is to the fill eat wllleb the ouse,4ou ,bays. the This observation he 1
itch were botany whole sabibet would come before them in the early part her for Mac-belies
of every Session—in the same manner in which the esti- for Liecob (Mr. Wi
theintegrity with
mates for the officers of Parliament were submitted or tended, ought to hat
ItyamLigohrts ito
etehde,
the 2lst of February for the preseet Session. )ie did efefessioll.
. not intend making soy farther observations for the present: r The Biti was thee
rout fo r.orr dsci- Mr. ABERCROMBY said It would be much better, as Ann!.