The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-02-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

being taken by Ministers to put a stop to the evils;
evils which if not timely attended to, and averted,
may lead to scenes of outrage and of plunder, nay,
to acts of rebellion. Though he retained all his for-
mer sentiments upon the subjects with which the Bill
was connected, and attributed whatever evils may
be apprehended in that respect to the conduct of his
Majesty's Ministers, he would not, under the cir-
cumstances, oppose the BM.
Earls LAUDERDALE and BATHURST re-
spectively spoke in explanation, and the latter in.
sisted that no time had been lest on' the occasion by
his Majesty's Government, fn 'carrying their deter-
mination into effect, on their new. of the case, in
recurring to Parliament with the least practicabld de-
lay.
The House then resolved into a Committee on
the Bill, and agreed to the same without any amend-
, ment.

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HOUSE OF toRDS, F... 3.

In the (....ninmittee of Appeals, some farther proceedings re-
'peeling the hearing of particular causes task place
About half-peg-pegthree-o'clock, the Lord Chancellor took kis
Nat on the Woolsack when the consideration of the Feu
Branch of the nalthpgit cause being resumed, Mr. M,Couochiss
was beard at great length, as second Counsel, on the part of the
Respondent, Sir J. S. Kerr, But. The further hearing of the
case was postponed till Thursday.
Pending the above, a private Hill was brought up from the
Vous. presented by Lord Stanley, and read a first time.
Earl of LIVERPOOL presented certain Accounts rela-
, live to the state et the Civil List, preparatory to the discussion
qf Royal Household Bill to-morrow.--Ordered to lie on the
Lordship were them ordered, to he summated, AS *e
Hof' a wt the )roble Secretary of State, for tomorrow.
General Campbell presented certain Paper and Documents
from the Court of Exchequer, in Scotland, respectiag the Ap-
pral-Canse. the Lord Advocate v. Hay and N ilkie, whiehweve
ordered m lie on the table.
Lord iKotint MELVILLE presented a Petition from the
town and port of Gremoek, in Scotland, the purport of which
tas we could collect) was praying that in the event of the re-
newal of the East India Company s Charter, the benefits of the
India Trade may he extended to that town.—Ordered • to lie or
the table.

Their Lordships then adjourned till to-morrow,
when the second reading of the Royal Household
Bill takes place.
_

It was ordered, that the Lord Bishop of Chichester be re.
quested to preach before the House, on Wednesday, thebth last,
at the ColleAlate Church of St. Peter's, in Westminster.
The Two Exchequer Bills Bills were read a third time and
passed.
CORN DISTILLERY PROHIBITION BILL.

On the quer ion for going into a Committee on this 'Bill, a
conversation took place beto ren the Earls LAUDERDALE and
lIIITHURST, and Lord GRENVILLE, but of which our very re-
stricted limits confine us to a brief sketch.

Earl LAUDERDALE vindicated himself from
any dereliction of principle in his not opposing the
progress of the Bill in question. Ile retained those
by which he was actuated when he joined in the suc-
cessful resistance to a similar measure last Session of
Parliament. He pointedly denied, however, that
the conduct of those with whom he had the honour
to act, inducing that proceeding, had, in the least
degree, contributed to bring the country into the
state that was alleged in these respects. What may
•be the real state of the corn harvest, he had not
equal opportunities with the Noble Lords opposite,
of ascertaining ; but he must express his opinion,
that the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers on the
occasion was blameable. They should, on egret',
tabling the prospect of scarcity, have come to owe of
two determinations, either to call Parliament tone.
Cher, and let the Legislature, the proper and consti.
tutional organ, apply the remedy; or have pnoceed.
ed to suspend the distillation from grain, on their
own responsibility, and to • have trusted to Parliap
meet for an Act of Indemnity,. He retained all his
' convictions respecting the superies poticg of ioticoo,-
raging the agriculture of the country, and, except
in cases of evident and undeniable necessity, permit-
, ting the free distillation of corn, as such, would
I eventually contribute to preclude real scarcities.
Ile, however, under the circumstances, and with a
view to the state in which the country in some re-
spects was placed, rather leaned to that side, which
would afford the least ground of immediate Com-
: plaint; and though he deemed that state to be, in no
small degree, attributable to Ministers, he would
not oppose the Bill.
Earl BATHURST ably defended the conduct of
his Majesty's Government on the occasion alluded to
by the Noble Earl. lie adverted, to the difficulty of
ascertaining, at aught of an early period, what fee
real state of a coming harvest would be ; but when
the idea of approaching scarcity seemed to be strong-
ly impressed on the public mind, and petitions were
presented to Government in consequence, they de-
termined on the most regular and constitutional
course of applying to Parliament for its interference
at the earliest practicable opportunity, as he held the
other alternative mentioned by the Noble Earl, of
suspending the operation of the laws, to be an un-
' constitutional expedient, and justifiable only in cases
`of extreme necessity.
Lord GRES VILLE, though he agreed generally
with his Noble Friend, was far from being ready to
go the length of recommending as an alternative of j
the Executive Power, suspending, on its own maim-
rity, the law of the land. With his Noble Friend{
over the way (Earl B.) lie agreed, that such an ex-
pedient
was highly unconstitutional, and justifiable I
only in cases of extreme necessity. Indeed, he re-
gretted thist the frequency of such a practice some
time since, had to a certain extent sts accustomed the
people to it, that in the present instance, they came
forward, even in time very metropolis, and petitioned
the Executive Government for a suspension of Ike
existing laws. In a case like the present, Miuisters
had only one course to follow, via.—to cause Par-
liament to be assembled, and take the sense of the
Legislature upon the subject. Parliament had, by
au Act of some years back, became liable to anlrtsi;.l
sembling at fourteen days notice, and that Act v
framed under the contempl.,ion of future cases ofl
urgency. The circumstances of the country, either
in a domestic or an external view, called for decision ,
and promptitude on the part of Ministers. What
the state of the country was with respect to the
Continent of Europe was long known; and they had
to consider its situation with respect to America, a
situation he would not then consider how created ;
but the consideration of their being in a state of
pending war with that most calamitous of all quer.'
ters, should, in his opinion, teach them the degree'
of hope the country had of supply from that quar-
ter. It was in every view, therefore, necessary that
Ministers shobld have speedily taken steps to pre-
clude any pending evils in the way of scarcity. With
his Noble Friend he was of opinion, that every pos-
sible encouragement should be afforded to the Agri-
cultural interests of the country, and the more so,
with reference to actual and pending circumstances.
His Lordship also adverted to the state of riot and
disorder into which one of the most populous and
important districts of the country was for some time
without any adequate steps, in his opinion,

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bilities, so far as they embrace the principles of ex-
.Clnsion, still remained. These disabilities could not _
be considered in any other light than in that of roe
preach, and as on the part of the Government, a
wanton infliction of disgrace on nearly the whole of
the population of Ireland. He knew it had hi.en
contended that the removal of them would not aired
the great majority, for that the private soldier or
sailor would not feel his situation bettered by the
elevation of his officer to the highest rank in (he ar-
my or navy, by the resumption by the nobility of the
hereditary seats in Parliament, or the preferment of
them to the highest offices in.the State. That such
doctrines should be held forth, was, in his opinion,
contrary to the general and best feelings of human
nature.—(Hoer, hear !)—To the removal there were
two classes of objections stated : first, that the prin-
ciple was dangerous, and ought not to be recognised;
and the second class object to the time in which the
subject is brought forward. To these objections he
would reply, by desiring the House to look at the
population of Ireland, in reS:Atct to the Catholic;,
and to the statements of their leader., who deny that
HOUSE OF COMMONS. their object is to build a Catholic hierarchy on the
A new Writ was-ordered for Dundalk, in Ireland. Protestant establishment. When the Utiichi was
The Insolvent Debtors' Bill was committed, and ordered to'
be reported to-morrow. effected, it was on the understanding that the ;idea.,
Lord FOLKESTON E pest:weed, till Friday, his motion re- Hon of the Government was to give relief; but iicw
spectiac the Ecclesiastical Court.
Mr. IREEVEY also postponed, until Tuesday, the 11th inst. 1 had those expectations been realized ? The Noble
his motion respecting the Four and a Half per Leal. Fund. Lord then passed an eulogium on the exertions ef Mr.
EAST INDIA COMPANY. I Fox and Mr.Grattan in the Catholic Cause, and then
r Mr. W ALLACE gave notice, that he should to-morrow, move
fora Bill to alter the mode of paying back certain sums bor. referred to the second objection, as to time, conceiv-
rowed by the last India Company, and also for the re-appoint- ing that, under the present situation of affairs on the
went of the East India Committee. I Continent, with a population so large as that of /re-
BOBEZZLENIENT OF NAVAL STORES.
Mr. CROK ER rase and moved, that the various Acts relating land, the House ought to grasp the present moment,
tonic Embezzlement of Naval Stores, be entered as read. iu opposition to the objections thus urged, and by a
They were accordingly read pro frrnia.
spontaneous measure atone for the series of injustice
' The Honourable Gentleman then moved for leave to bring in
a Bill to extend these Acts to Ireland. At present, he observed, and oppression which, since the connection of Eng-
there was no Act in that kingdom to prevent the embezzlement, I land with Ireland, had disgraced the former country.
and he .00ved In cousequence of a Migrant case which had late-
The adoption of the motion would add a grace to the
ty come to the knowled,
_-e of Government.—Leave was given.
BUSHEY PARK. measure, which would secure the affections of a noble
Mr. ORDE asked whether the correspondence which had and generous-hearted people.—( flew, hear !)—lle
place between the Surveyor of the Woods and Formts,
talks ed
tie Royal Higitivem the Duke of Clarence, respecting
_the did not wish to press the House to an unqualified
matting down some trees in Bushey Park, was to be published. acquiescence with all the claims of .the Roman Ca-
lle CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should
tholies, hut te enter, enquire into, and deliberate
":1" ire'
and
illOgla. Ith
sleATiltZlieErtnkttroTr' upon those claims. This was not the time to piocras-
The SPEAKER called to the Hart. Major-General Cole, in tinate is lien the whole of the Powers of Europe were.
Ms place, to communicate to the Gallant Geseral the Thank* of 1
the noose for his condact In' the battle of Albucra. within the controul of an enemy who had conducted'
, Major-General Colt stood up io his place. the battles on the Continent N ith an energy hitherto
The SPEAKER then, in a very impressive manner, and in
unparalleled. It had been stated, " that the con-
lafiguage the most dignified, addressed the ilkijor•Genral.—
After the long absence, he observed, which the Mayor-General duct of the Catholics in urging their claims was a
bad experienced in the military service of bill country, he was stepping stone to their ambition." Whet was the
happy to greeting his retsina by calling to mind those ineustiratle
conSiett of the Catholics in answer to this reproachl
events, welch, In modern drees,charactarked sloe amnia of the
aim tiethe coarse of which Ise bad bottle in nil- They endured it with patience—they evinced their
trithelrausipast. In the annals of the military history, the 1 I ,
_pla in of Maida would never be forgotten, where British valour ,to alt and affectionby_manninge, the navy and by
Was It right to proceed with
Fad ever been us eminently conspicuous—where the gallantr) and I recruiting the army.
bravery of the whole of the forces had raised the reputation of I severite against such persons—to suspect their lot al.-
the country—had rooted the troops of France, and humbled the
pride of a powerful canny. It would never be forgotten that ! ty—to disappoint their hopes--and to hold them
In that great contest he bore the brunt, and by his skill and gal- t forth to their fellow-subjects as engaged in a dark .
lantry decided the i,ue of the battle. Purkiing the same career .
i
conspiracy to endanger the safety of the State ?
of honourable conduct. he hid rinse eutitled himself to the grail-
j,
tulle and admiration of his country ; for in the hard:a.might battle [Hear, hear !]-lle thought he was justified'in as-
.of Albucra, the testimony of the Lommander-in-Chief had added serting that Government had produced that state of
to those claims, by stating, " that to Major-General Cole's ex-
things of which 'they now complained, hut which
perieneeil judgment and to his distinguished valour, the triumphs
of that day were completed," thoug,a womntLal in the onset, he loudly demands explanation. The Noble Lord con-
eras fare.nost in Pie oattle' and foremost amongst the victorious. chided with moving as a Resolution—
These deals of glory had not only recommended bim to the no-
! Bee and gratitude of his country, but also to the gratitude of the " That the House du resolve itself into a Committee of the
I House, and they bad accordingly voted him their thanks, &c. whole House, to take into consideration the present State of
I which the Speaker read. Ireland."
1 Major-General COLL expressed his gratitude for the high ho- s.
sour lust conferred. It was an honour which did not exclusively The Marquis of TAVISTOCK seconded the mo-
belmig whim, fur the victory of that day Nan to be attributed • •
to the gallantry of the troops w.iich he hail the goad fortune and
the honour to comnand. :le also requested the Speaker would vanced in support of it.
allb' Noble F. dad
-
to agreeing with is i ten had a -
accept his Thanks for the handsome terms in which he had con• Sir JOHN NICHOLL observed, that the speech
veyed the Resolution of the Maine, and he trusted the House
would appreciate his feelius vu the occasion—l /Icor, near! ) of the Noble Lord related chiefly to the state of the
The Report of the Regents Expences Bill was brought up and Catholic clergy. It .was a question that, had been
agreed to. frequently discussed. Ile trusted he should stand.
The Cad Trade Regulatiou Bill was rc•committed for Thum-
excused for entering into an exa,s:nation of the rne-
day next.
STATE OF IRELAND. rits of the question from the particular situation
Lord MORPETH rose for the purpose of bringing which he had the honour to hold; if he did not, it might
forward the motion of which he had given notices be deemed In him a dereliction of duty. In stating
respecting the State of Ireland. The Noble Lord his opinions on the merits of the question, lie desired
observed, that it must be in the recollection of many . those opinions to be taken as of an individual mein-
; Gentlemen, that a Noble Relation of his was anxious ; bee, not at all connected with, or even knowittg, the
to bring the subject before the House, but, in cons's. I sentiments of Ministers. To come at a right couclu-
I quence of an unfortunate and severe domestic calami. 1 sio6,
neml topics. Much had been it would be necessary to separate it from ge-
said in former debates,
consideration of the House, it was some consolation
1 as to the natural rights and constitutional privileges of
•
to him to reflect, that the state of Ireland was so ; the Catholics—of their emancipation; as if they were
'
in a state of sins y—as if they were in a state of per-
notorious, it would be unnecessary for him to enter ,
' into any minute detail of that situation. It required : secution.--Ulear, hear!]—Mucli had beets said too
not the aid of rhetoric to depict it, for it was written , on the blessings of Civil and Religious Liberty.
' in characters too plain to be mistaken by the most 1 He trusted, however,, that there was hardly an in-
canoes, or to be misrepresented by the mot perverse : telligent person who did not abhor and detest into-
among the enemies to the tranquillity of -Ireland;' leranee—who did not hold the blessings of Civil and
(Hear, hear!)—With respect to the motion, he 1 Religious Liberty in the greatest respect. It was
should apply the observations which he had to make, I not necessary to cease to be a Christian in order to
principally to the disabilities long complained of, ; become a bigot; bid if those who valued civil and
which the Roman Catholics labour under, abstaining religious liberty were to be liable to the imputation
from entering into anycliscussion upon the legality I of having raised the cry of " the Church is in dan-
or illegality of the steps taken under the 'Convention I ger," and of " No Popery," as an. artful attempt
Act. He should not question the policy which-dic- to run away with the natural rights of one class of
tated those measures, nor reprobate 'the extension ! his Majesty's subjects, and foethe purposes of per-
and continuation of them. It would be sufficient for sedition and intolerance, .theu the grounds for this
him to state, that the unqualified and determined op- . nouloir were laid.' The question ought to be stated
position manifested by the Government to the RoMan fairly and openly. If the concessions demanded
Catholic proceedings, had produced in them a feeling : were granted, what security to the Constitution
of discontent and dissatisfaction. In the view Which would ensue ? But It hail been stated, that they
he took of the subject, it equally affected the Roman . merely asked their natural rights. It w,:s too late
Catholic and the Protestants interests ; for the Pro- in the day to drag back the discussion to natural
-testants of that kingdom conceived their own security , rights, because those rights were best-estimated in the
best consulted in advising the concession of the claims : preservation of social order ; and it would not be
of so large a portion of their fellow subjects. In : contended by the most zealous for these alleged rights,
•ealling the recollection of the House to the various . that the Constitution had been abridged more (hark
discussions which had already taken place, he should was necessary for the order of civil society. If the
not repeat the arguments of the friends of the Ito- : advocates for the Catholics wished to extend their
matt Catholics ' • he should not travel back to the : rights, the question ought to be so stated ; the Con-
l' councils of the Lateran and of Trent ; nor should he! stitution must be altered to satiety them, for they
"think it requisite to enquire into the policy adopted : had their share of it. The preservation of the Con-
by King .William and Queen Anne, which perhaps i stitution, as settled at the Revolution, Was to be
were justified by the necessity of the case, but which ' looked to, and it had hem deemed expedient to ex.
had imposed on them a sort of degrading sritvitude. elude Catholics, as a measure of security to tne
Since that period, however, much had been done for State. 'I he Lagislature had then found it necessary,
their relief within the last forty years, but the disa- for the essential of the Constitution was the presets,

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