The Statesman.
London, England, 1824-02-04 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN

f,rward against the libet ties of the people—waa ready at
the call,
and stood forward in the crusade. Ultras an,
Royal fanatics, and wicked and hail men, from the hop.
of plnnder, join, 11 in the attempt to insult the liberties of
Fluor. M. Chateatiliri Intl said, that any snecess
a~ gins
the independence of another country would he a blow to
the influence of the British Government. What have these
filonarebs dors ? Is there freedom in any part of their
dominions ? could any man 'tang! up in any country in
Enronv, and say the things which he (Lord H.) had then
been uttering? (Laughter.) He did not think the Noble
Lord opposite was disposed to send him to a prison for the
freedom of his observations ; hut if even he were, in Eng-
bed he could not do so. (Cheers.) It was but to insult
the nameof freedom, when a people who are not allowed to
express their opinion' of the concerns of the country, for
they are as much their's as their rulers. In suck a situa-
tion there was no Constitution—no liberty—no law.—
(Cheers.) Mark what the French Government had done
more than Napoleon had attained even in the plenti-
tile of his power. They had military possession
of all Spain and an influence on the conduct of Portugal.
An army flushed with success, led by a Prince marked, as
a Noble Lord said, by a character of firmness, manliness,
and moderation, but which qualities were all p ted to
the purposes of injnstice, and to the acquisition of false
glory to France. There has been more titan all this. A
General, vehement in her cause—a Legislature, with the
power to lay the people at the feet of the Monarch. but
without the spirit or the power to check an attempt on its
liberties, with a Monarch at the head of a confederacy.—
He (Lord H.) would ask the Noble Lord if inch a stare of
things afforded satisfaction to Europe or to Great Britain ?
_(Hear.) In that place he could not help taking notice
Man argument of the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord said
that he deprecated the war with Spain; hut in what way did
he deprecate it? be representations of the great improbabi-
lity of success. The whole of the despatches are full of
such representations, and instead of boldly protesting
against their measures, it was endeavoured to reason with
them, as between confidential friends. He was certain the
Noble Duke would spurn with indignation the man who
would say that his real motive in using that language was
to avoid going to war. He was certain he would consider
it as a stigma incompatible with his character.(Hear.) The
NohleLord said he deprecated the war withSpain,but his re-
presentation against it bad no effect. He would next advert
to the congratulation of the proposer of the Address, on
the distinguished situation which the country held from
the happy issue of former wars, in which she acted as the
champion of the independence of Europe. There was a
great deal of boasting and chivalry got up for the occasion •,
het if any shape was more suitable than another, that of
the Knight of the Sorrowfe I Countenance was the most ap-
propriate. If one had considered what had been done—
what a sacrifice of human blood and of treasure !—these
certainly were objects for congratulation ; and the parties
who could openly avow their satisfaction, should appear,
like Noodle and Doodle with an universal grin; So then
the occupation of Spain by France was of ao consequence
at all He (Lord H.) saw these matters in a different and
more serious light. It should be well considered whether
there was anything affecting the interest of Great Britain
in this alliance. On that point. though he might dwell
long, be would abstain for the present ; but it was noto-
rious thatthe greater part of that combination were dispos-
ed to abolish a free press and a free discussion. There was no
pretence left untried, and religion was attempted to be
made a powerful engine. It would be a question what
this country should do under such circumstances
—embark at the head of a party under the
equivocal title of Protestant Ascendancy r or, se-
parating itself from all connection with the Old World.
look to the New World—to the Colonies of South
America, which have separated from Spain, and all inter-
ference with the Holy Alliance. It was not in this place
that he wished to discuss the advantages of any of these
”stems. He felt that they all had their conveniences, but
they also had their inconveniences. He did contend that
we were placed in a situation in which our election must be
made. The time was approat hing, when some of these
systems must be adopted; and, according to the best view
be could take, any was better than none ; for, we had to
contend with a power which had steadily, uniformly, si-
lently, and boldly proceeded—with a power which. upon
the long run, must be equal to any resources, (industrial's
and patriotic as the people of this country were) which this
country could supply. In such a situation, it was his firm
conviction that the adoption of any system was better than
that hitherto pursued, which was no system at all. He sin-
carly hoped his Majesty's Council might choose the best •
but he Galled upon them earnestly to choose shortly;.
rause, if they did not. they 'soul.' be brought into conside-
rable degradation, and, he was ;.Roost persuaded, into
utter ruin.

The Address, which was an echo of the Speech, was then
angtiimously agreed to.

STATE OF IRELAND.
Lou! DARNLEY said he felt it his duty to take the
earliest opportunity of railing their Lordships' deliberate
attention to the state of Ireland. We had not yet got to the
bottom of the evil. He pledged himself to what he stated
last year, and was determined not to shrink from it. He
should lie able to prove this was the most fitting time to
take the whole subject into consideration, and he therefore
moved the House should be summoned for that purpose on
the 2d of March.
leinl HOLLAND asked, if it was the intention
"f his Majesty's Government to lay any paper before
the House relative to the negociations with Turkey and
Russia? •
Lord LIVERPOOL said he was not aware of any at
present.
The House adjourned at half-past nine•

HOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, Fen. S.
This being the day to which Parliament was prorogued for
the dispatch of business, the House met accordingly.
The SPEAKER took the chair at • quarter before three
o'clock ; soon after which Sir Thomas Tyrwhitt, Usher of the
Black Rod, summoned the house to the House of Lords, to
hear the Commission from his Majesty for opening the session
read. Afterhaving been absent for about a quarter of an hour,
the Speaker returned, and passed through the house to his pd.
/ate room. He resumed the Chair at • few minutes before four
o'clock, at which hour there was rather a full attendance of
members.
The SPEAKER informed the house, that he had, pursuant
to act of Parliament, issued writs for the return of new mem•
beta—for Lincolnshire, in the room of the Hon. Charles An.
derson Pelham, now Lord Yarborough ; and for the Borough
of Llskeard, in the room of the Hoe. Wm. Eliot, now Earl of
St. Germain..
The new members then took the oaths and their seats.
Mr. LUSH INGTON mewed for new writs for the return of
alemhers—for the borough of Eye, In the room of Sir Robert
Gifford, who had accepted the office of Lord Chief Justice of
the Court of Common Pleas; for the borough of Ashburton,
the room of Sir John Singleton Copley, who had accepted
the office of his Majesty's Attorney General ; for the city of
%ford, in the room of Charles Wetherell, Esq., who had tic'
eepted thecae. of his Majesty's Solicitor General - for Wig'
lao, in the room of Sir John Osborn ; forflandwich, in the room
Of Joseph Marryet,•Esq.. deceased ; for the county of Cavan,
to the room of the Right lion.Joho Mozwell Barry, mow Earl
of
Farnham ; and for Dumfries, in the room of Wm. Robert
Keith Dos bas Esq. who had socepted the office of one of
the Lords of the.Adn'sireity.
Lord WILLIAM FITZGERALD moved for a new writ
for the return of a member for the county of Louth, in the
roam of the Right Hon. Thothas Henry SkeMnston, now a
Peer.
The Clandestine Outlawry Bill passed through the usual form.
t, The SPEAKER then said, that the house had attended in
," Woar haute of Lords to hear the Royal Speech delivered by Com*
o ; copy of whiCh he would then read. (See the Pro.
"(Hags In the House of Lords.)

Mr. R. HILL rose to move the address. In consequence of
the low and faltering tone of voice in which the lion. Membt r
(who was dressed in military uniform) delivered his speech.
•mly a few occasional words reached the gallery. After es
oressing a full sense of his inability to discharge the duty which
had devolved upon him, anti bespeaking. therefore, the indul•
once of the House, he glanced hastily at the various topics
which the Royal Speech embraced, and conCludcd by moving
the address. which was, as usual, an echo of It.

Mr. DAI;Y, although he was Conscious of his inability to do
justiee to the topics of the address, yet, recollecting how often
he bad received the indulgence of the House under similar cir
eurostanees, thought that he thrmlel hest consult their conveni•
dime by entering at once upon the task which he had undertaken
instead of offering an apology for haviqg undertaken it. He
had been induced to second the address which had just been
moved, from a consideration of the various topics which it
contained, because, also, he approved of the tone of the speech
by which it had been introduced, and from a firm belief that it
would be adopted with very little or no opposition.—(Hear.)
When he considered the situation of the country, either with
reaping to its internal economy or its foreign relations, he
thought that it afforded ground for general satisfaction. But a
few years ago the commerce of this country was excluded from
almost every part of the Continent, and the Powers of the Cote
tineat were arrayed against us under the guidance of one of the
ablest andmost extraordinary men that the world overproduced.
—We had entered into the contest, not for any purpose of sr
grandizement and ambition, but because it was then a question
whether we should suffer ourselves to be conquered -like the
rest of Europe, or remain a free nation. (Hear.)At the congress
which immediately followed the termination of the war, the
moderate and liberal policy of the Ministers of this coun-
try was strikingly displayed. They made many sacrifices to
pl Ice the whole of Europe in such a situation as would
afford no grounds for a future contest. In the course of
last year a war broke out in the South of Europe, which
created the most serious apprehensions in the minds of
many persons, lest it might involve this country in a fresh
contest. The war had now ceased. He did nut pretend to say
that the manner in which it terminated was such as to give
pleasure to any British subject. (Cheers.) There was no
lover of liberty who most not regret the extinction of even
one of Its slightest sparks in any part of Europe. He
must, however, state that the slight struggle which was
made on time part of the Spaniards in the late contest
afforded the strongest proof of the good policy which
Ministers had pursued. Ministers deserved credit for the
manliness with which they hul opposed themselves to the
feeling of the country, for it could not be denied that the
feeling of the English nation was decidedly in favour of
the Spaniards. After the tremendous struggle in which
this country had been engaged for so,many years, it was
impossible that its various interests should not suffer in
some degree at the conclusion of a peace. But it was
gratifying to find that Ministers were right, when they
stated that the distresses of the country would be only
temporary. Amongst the various interests of the country,
none was of more importance than that of agriculture,and
none bad stiffered more by the transition from war to
peace. It was satisfactory to find that such an important
interest was at present in a state of increasing prosperity,
which had been caused alone by the general flourishing
state of the rest of the community, which enabled them
to create and satisfy new wants. (Hear.) During the
last eight years, Parliament had remitted an enormous
amount of taxation, and that reduction had taken place
without the credit of the country being in the least de-
gree impaired. Other countries had also effected some al-
terations of their financial systems, which, however, they
were only enabled to do by having recourse to British
capital. He was convinced that Austria now consented to
pay the eighth part of what she owed this Government,
only because she wished to avail herself of British capital.
It had been said that Great Britain had fallen front the high
station which she had held among nations; but in Isis opi-
nion she never stood more pre-eminent than at the present
moment. He looked to the South American states as the
source of an increase of commerce to this country, hut lie
also considered them in a more important point of view.
It was always gratifying to a free nation to watch the pro-
gress of liberty in any part of the world—to behold men
throwing off the yoke of the most odious slavery, and
taking their stand amongst the free countries of she world.
(Hear.) He hailed the appointment of the Consuls to the
states of South America as the first step towards their ac-
knowledgment as independent powers. (Hear.) With
respect to one of the topics of the address, namely, the
stale of the West Indies, he was extremely sorry to find
that there had been some m inifestations of intemperance
on the part of the inhabitants of our islands. Al-
though the West India proprietors had expressed
themselves warmly, lie thought that their com-
plaints ought, notwithstanding, to meet with the
attention of Parliament. It was a subject which
required to be treated with great delicacy ; but it ought
not to he forgotten that the Negroes were as much private
property as any gentleman's estate in England, and that
they were mortgaged as the security for debts in this coun-
try. Parliament should weigh well every circumstance
connected with the qnestion, before it attempted to over-
throw a system which had endured for so long a perio..t.
Another subject which had been alluded to in his Alajesty's
speech, was one upon which the house obvert felt deeply--
he meant the situation of his own country. It had been
painful to observe, that for many years past, Ireland had
been kept, by misgovernment, in a constant state of dis-
turbince. Much had been done for that country by the li-
berality of Parliament, in affording the means of employing
and educating the poor. He was happy to hoar it stated
in his Majesty's speech, that the condition of Ireland was
improved. This happy change was, in some degree to be at-
tributed to the measures of the L a.,1 Lieutenant, and par-
ticularly to the revision of the magistracy, by which that
body had been prevented from any longer doing justice, or
perhaps ioju-tice, in their own houses. Ile (Mr. Daly)
knew that within the last six months, large masses
of English capital had been introduced into Ireland.
This was a circumstance which gave him great pleasure;
because he believed that more advantage would result to
Ireland from the residence of one Englieli capitalist in that
country. than from the passing of whole volumes of laws.
(Hirer.) If it should appear that property could lie pro-
perly secured in Ireland, be hoped and believed that
English capitalists would be tempted to proceed thither.
The cause of the happy state of the people of England, as
compared with the people of the rest of Europe, was, that
they were in the full enjoyment of all the blessings of the
constitution. It was. in his opinion, vain to expect
that the measures which were proposed for their advantage
could produce the desired effect, whilst the people of
that country:were divided amongst themselves. In Eng•
land, the people knew the blessings of the constitntios.
In Ireland, the great majority of the people knew it only
through the bars which excluded them from its enjoyment.
(Hear, hear.) After apologizing for having detained the
house so long, the hon. member concluded by expressing
the pleasure which he felt in seconding the address.

The SPEAKER then read the Address from the
Chair.

Mr. BROUGHAM said he rose chiefly in consequence
of some observations which bad fallen from the Hon. Se-
conder, having had no means of informing himlelf of the
contents of the Speech, except so frr as they had been col-
lected by anticipation in some Alorning- Papers, and a Fe-
reign Paper, which bad made a very correct conjecture as
to the substance of the King's Speech.—(A laugh.) Cee-:
sidering the magnitude of the topics discosaed, be wished.
the old practice of better times bad been followed; but ss
he knew it would be violently opposed If be were to pro-
pose postponing the consideration of the Speech till they
had examined it, he should go on to remark on some of
those topics which had, coming from the lips of the Hon.
Seconder, given him unfeigned pleasure and delight. He
meant the latter part of that Hoe. Gentleman's speech, from§
which it appeared that at length Govtrement had deter-
mined to rule Ireland on some intelligible and consistent

principle, not raising Up and abetting one party to,
thwart the other in its endeavours to possess itself o"
those constitutional rights which the Honourable Se-
conder had so truly and so eloquently said they knew not
even the existence of, except by the bars which
shut them out from their enjoyment. Such
a line of policy alone could insure the tranquillity of that
country, or indeed could be safely or honestly patronised.
He saw no reason why this country should felicitate herself.;
or utter congratulations to the Crown on the other events
alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman who seconded the Ad-
dress. Spain, it was true, had been unsuccessful in her
struggle; hut were they for that to congratulate the Sove-
reign on the line of policy his Ministers had advised him to
pursue? Their interference might have been successful or
it might not—the same might have been the result—the
Spaniards might have been unable to maintain the Consti-
tution; but because they were now only one degree better
than they could have been in the worst conceivable state
of things, was that a subject for congratulation? He did
not now argue whether or not they followed the line of
policy that ought to have been adopted; bust was it a time
to congratulate the Crown that matters were no worse?—
What was it that did really happen? The conquest of Spain
by France. (Hear, hear 1) That was the event they suffered
to take place almost without the slightest expression of dis-
approbation—without protest or remonstrance; an event
to avert which, in former times, the greatest and most ex- I
pensive wars ever undertaken by this country had
been waged, and victoriously waged. As to ex-
ample and immediate consequences, it would be
needless to remind the House of the wretched
effects that followed from the policy pursued. Whether
they could avert the war or not was another question.
at-least, was clear, that the present state of the
Continent offered most serious ground of alarm. He could
not admit the force of the argument so eloquently advanc-
ed by the Honourable Gentleman who seconded the al-
- The little resistance offered by Spain was, he said.
a proof that this country would have been premature in
interfering otherwise than she had. This was an argu-
ment that cut two ways. He should like to know if Spain
were not averse from the restored Government, if the body
of the people did not entertain sentiments favourable to the
Constitution, what was the motive for retaining in that
unfortunate country a force of 50 or 60,000 men ?
Either the Spaniards were friendly to the Constitution, or
France was now the conqueror of Spain ; and holding
possession of it as a conquered country, notwithstanding
her former protestations to the credulous Ministry of Eng-
land. One or other branch of the dilemma was inevitable, and
the last was that incalculably most injurious to the interests
of England. France, however, up to the very last moment de-
nied any views of aggrandisement. I f the latter alternative
was not admitted, the necessary conclusion was, that Spain was
attached to the Constitution—that she wanted but the counte•
nance of other Governments—that she stool in need of fleets
and armies, and pecuniary resources—an 1 that these wants
alone prevented her from a successful struggle. His belief
was, that Spain was *Meted to the Constitution ; that though
unsuccessful from want of leaders or resources, she did what
she omild under all the circumstances, and was now only kept
down by a French force, by the terror of those armies which
had almost unwarrantably trodden down her rights and liber
es. He should be told, perhaps, that the fears he entertained
from the conduct of France were chimerical—that no danger
could result to this country. The Hnn. Gentleman who second•
ed the Address said, that England never stood in a more corn•
mending attitude than now—that her influence was never
greater—that she never more completely held the balance of
power in Europe. Where were the proofs of this ? Eiher
they possessed the influence without exerting It; or holding, the
balance they allowed it to incline entirely to one side, or they
looked upon themselves as having nothing at all to do, no in•
terest of any kind in the conduct of the other Powers. The
fact appeared to be, that they were entirely shut out from the
deliberations of the other Powers; they had no voice in the
oonclaveof Sovereigns, and were called upon only as brokers
to contribute their money in support of the war, to lend their
aid when the hills became due—(4. Laugh.)--Ile be'
tiered, however, that the case did not present so much of
a dilemma as might be supposed; and that in fact the Al-
lies did not look upon them as a Power that ought to in-
terfere. I t was the coarnon talk in some of the saloons of
Paris, that England in future must content herself with the
situation of a Secondary Power, with that in which na-
ture, and, he would add, her own choice placed her. He
should be told that the dangers he apprehended were either
very distant, or quite chimerical ; that there was nothing
to he apprehended from those conspirators against the li-
berties of Europe. who went tinder the appellation of the
Holy Allies. This was the name they gave themselves.
These conspirators were wise in their generation. He did
nut apprehend that they would immediately proceed to out-
rage the feelings of this country—that they would attempt
it this year or time next. Though they were hound to keep
the peace under a recognisance of 800,01N1,0001. still there
were outrages under which the Holy Alliance well knew
they would forfeit even a recognisance so great, and say to
the authors of such outrage, let the debt go as it might, we
will submit to this no longer. hieing conscious of this, the
Allies wool(' not make any sudden attempt to excite op-
position; they would undertake nothing outrageous, natal
after slow encroachments, submitted to one after
the other,as of no great importance, they would attempt
some decisive step, that must at length drive this coun-
try into an unsuccessful, because unequal struggle. Look
at their conduct to other countries. He recollected that
last Session he was treated with something approaching to
derision by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for
Foreign Affairs, in consequence of some allusion lie made
to the conduct which it was then reported the Allies were
pursuing with respect to the Swiss Cantons. The Right
Hon. Gentleman said, that if the least part of the little
he (Mr. H.) then stated were true, it was mush too much.
It was thus he answered, with something of an epigram-
matic turn, in place of communicating any accurate Infor-
mation, of meeting the statement with a denial, or saying
no such information hail reached Government. It was the
singularity of the Right lion. Gentleman's expiessions
that fixed the matter in his recollection. It turned out,
however, that the greater part of what he (Mr. II.) stated
was ,true ; and that they, without any Minister with a
Lupe salary at the Swiss Cantons, were more correct in
their information titan His Majesty's Government. It was
true that' there had issued a tequisition• to put down the
free press of Switzerland, to turn out all emigrants, all
who took refuge there from the persecutions and tyranny
of their own country. Switserland, that 'had been
illustrious for ages for affording an asylum to
those who fled from religious or political persecution,
was Gins ordered by Imperial mandate to turn out
those who took refuge in her bosom. These unfortu-
nate men, too, were driven away with unnecessary violence;
and a violence equally unnecessary was employed in put-1
ling down the free press. Not content with suppressing
the common vehicles of political intelligence and passing
events, they suppressed even Journals which were merely
the depositaries of scientific discussion; not from any politi-
cal offences committed by them, but because they had the
savour of discussion ; and the Allies feared that any thing
like a spirit of discussion upon any subject might turn out
unfavourable to themselves. A country might be allowed
to enjoy tranquillity ; it might not be overrun by iwvading
armies; it might seem to prosper; but be must call that an
unhappy country that was. thus obliged to act nailer the
dictatiou of despotic Goverment'. It might be allowed
for a time to wear the appearance of a separate State, but
sooner or later it mast be swallowed by the despotic
Power that thus interfered io its internal concerns. The
same was the case all through Germany. There the Al-
lies acted like a sort of armed police. They met, concerted
their plans, and appointed each other to carry them into
execution. At one time Italy was the country to be over-
MO, at another, Spain: Austria was appointed to do Gael
business at one time, and France at another. Without