The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-06-17 00:00:00

THE giA

expenses of the civil establishment, and that this sum
would be wanted in adilitio
Mr. Huma said, dust the amount of the revenue had
been determined originJily by !he leirisleurs of the
island to rover the expense, of ghat they considered
the necessary civil establishment. lie submitted to
the Committee the propriety of recurring to the stand-
ard which the legislators had fixed.
Mr. liuut.at.•nN stated. that there had nut been a
single sinecure office its the colony.
A suns of (tnij was voted for the Civil Establishment of
St. Dominica.
10,8001. was voted for the Chß Estahllsbnient of the Go-
'moor of Upper Canada.
12,4954. for that of Nova Scotia.
6,7371. for that of New Brunswick,

sum applied For. He did hot think that the work'
would ever prove useful to the country.
Lord &amnia hoped that his Right Hon. Friend
would not pledge himself that this would be the last
SUM.
Mr. Annurtisor said he would withdraw the resolu-
tion upon this understanding.—Resolution withdrawn.
The following sums were then voted :-
61.6131. for defraying the expenses of maintaining and
employing convicts at home.
3.1641. for defraying the expenses of maintaining erhahsal
lunatics.
13.0001. for defraying the chirps of prosecutions err for-
ger•, Ile.
The resolution for a rote of 40,00 W. to defray the law
charges of the year being put,

. . .
LYNN. for that of Cape Breton. A.. D. W. Maltese- asked how the expense of this
11.6201. for that of Prince Edward's Island. department could have increased from 20,0001., which
amet, for that of the island of biewfounutand. it was at last year, to double that sum, at which it
17,00N1. for that of New South %deb.
ft,3864. for that of Sierra Leone,
was now estimated.
A sum of SUMO/. towards defraying the expenses of build- Mr. ARBUTHNOT said that this was easily accounted
ing the Penitentiary pouse at Milbank, having been pro- for by the more than ordinary number of prosecutions
posed,
Sir J. YORKE said it was impossible to avoid noticla which the Crown in that time had undertaken. The
g circumstances of the times called for these repeated
the extent of the proposed vote, when he considered I proseent•
that no less than 6011,041111. had been already expended Mr. llonnocal thonelit the reason assigned by the
upon the Institution. Ile doubted very touch the
policy of keepicg arch a number of persons in the Right. Hon. Gentleman only made the items more ex-
ceptionable. The prosecutions by the Crown were
country at all, at the present time who n the popula- f purely political ; and he denied that such a number of
lion was inereas• :1 to sucis an alarming extent. He them were necessary.
had no hesitation to say that he would, if it were in By increasing such grants the
Crown were enabled to keep to themselves all the talent
his power, transport every felon out of the country. of the bar, and thus deprive the prisoners of the be-
This was his opinion. Hight or wrung there it was. refit which they might derive from it. On the eir-
In fact, the increase of felons into this Institution was suits, all the leading Counsel were retained by the
so great that it was to be apprehended that in a little ('rown, as he contended, improperly. He thought the
time they wonld leave but six penitents in the place. Representatives of the people should not vote away
Six penitents consuming 1041,110111. a-piece was a tole- such a sum as 40,0001. to he employed against them-
ruble burden. He scull Id take the liberty of recurring selves.—(Cries of Order.)--Whatever might he the
to ancient history for some assistance on this occasioa, feeling of some Gentlemen in the House, he continued
and he would tit upon the authority of no less a per- I to say, he thought the matter of so much importance,
sonage than King Solomon himself—a man, perhaps, that he would not only speak, but also take the sense
of all Sovereigns, both ancient and modern, the hest ' of the Committee upon it.
capable of giving an opinion upon the character of I Mr. Hesaissos wished to know whether the Hon.
the sex. That wise Monarch had said somewhere or i Member for Westminster was prepared to say, that all
other—(he, Sir Joseph, did not exactly know where)l the prosecutions within the last year were unnecessary.
that a virtuous woman nas a ruby. Did, however, thel—(Hear!)—What did he think of the trials at the
' Penitentiary accomplish the talus in of the female cha- ; Old Bailee, at Lancaster, Warwick, and Leicester. If
ratter ? On the contrary, lie would take it upon hint 'it was true that these were wantonly or unnecessarily
to say, that the leoitents were all ruined there.—Mrs. undertaken, then, indeed, no sum ought to be voted to
Fry's penitents were absolutely done up.—(lAughter.) the Law Officers. However, if the house of Connuons
—He himself knew a lady who had beets rubbed by a approved of them, and thought that the Crown should
servant women, whom she had from the Penitentiary— have the means of carrying such prosecutions into effect,
" Bless my heart,•' said she, " to be robbed by this it was but reasonable the expenses should be defrayed.
woman, and she so strongly recommended from New-1
—(Hear !)—He had reproached Government with un-
gate."—(Loud laughter.)-11e hoped that some at-; ikrtaking too many prosecutions; but how often had
tempt would be wade to send the felons out of the . the Crown been called upon from the other si ;e to
country. have recourse to the law. This was particularly the
Mr. HoLroen said, that the araregate expence of case when the new Bills were in progress through the
the Penitentiary haul kern, sip to this time, but I House. With regard to the King's Counsel being re-
-340,000/. He agr..ed with his Hun. Friend as to the . tallied, he asked, was it nut their duty to be on the side
proptiety of sending felons out of the country—hut he of the Crown ?—(Hear!)—But it was not the fees to
thought that the same puuisloo vat should not be in I Counsel which made up the whole repent*; a good
dieted on those uu Ito were considered as meriting a .
short period of transportation. I deal was incurred in sutnisioning and bringing up wit-
nesses. Part of the present sum was intended to make
Mr. LocellAßT wished to know bow many penitents ,up the deficiency of last year, and the other part was
might have been sent out of the Penitentiary. certainly with a prospective view to any new occasions
Mr. Ifni ronu conl4 not exactly tell; there were which might arise, and which the temper of the tinges
qow in 400 individuals, and he hoped by this time did not at all render unlikely. He therefore thought,
twelvemonth that th.. would be 7110.-o(laughter) that upon general grounds, the Committee could not
after deducting, however, the number who might be adopt the exceptions of the Hon. Gentleman as to the
sent out in the course of the year. In the course of increased expence, and if details were wished fur, a
last year 30 reformed individuals had been rant out, return would willingly be laid upon the table, to ac-
and he would pledge himself to the House that not one count fur the application of every item.—(Bear !)
of them would ever be heard of again as connected with Mr. Honuouse agreed that the question was en-
offences. tirely upon the necessity of the prosecutions, and he
Mr. LOCKHART objected to the great expellee of the I slid not blame those Members who saw their necessity,
establishment, from which the fruit was so stuallai because they were fur voting so large a summit to defray
He thought it a guest subject of complaint, that the the expense of them. He was not in the last Peale-
good_ aceummodation of the convicts in this establish- went, and therefore had nothing to do with those who
meet were i'ill"itelY "I'vrh'r to those of the pour of called open Ministers to multiply prosecutions. If he
Lambeth, who had been reduced to misery by the had been there he would not have joined in the cry,
great nressnre of the public burdens. for he thought it was taking an unfair advantage of
Mr. BENNET protested against the character oldie 6ns-eminent at the time.—(Hear !)—He would then,
remarks which had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman. as now, object to the principle of these prosecutions.
He had the authority of the venerable Howard for From what he saw, be was disposed to give up the,
saying, that persons under confinement required more idea of dividing the Committee ; bat he felt it due to
and better food, than persons in the ordinary spheres himself to make his opinions known to his constituents,
of life. He thought that the state of that institution and having done that, he would content himself with
dill great credit to the tn:inagers of it. protesting against the vote.
Mr. LOCKHART disclaimed any intention of treating Mr. D. BROOMS gave it as his opinion, that the
the institution in piestion with contumely; but he prosecutions had been undertaken fur the protect'
thought he was hound to express his disapprobation of loyal subjects.
of a system whien he believed was not founded upon Mr. LOCKHART instanced some cases where the At-
proper principles. He slid not think that such insti- torney or Solicitor-Generals had not gone the circuit to
tuitions were calculated to cure the growth of crime, prosecute, but left it to the Counsel who usually went
Some other mode of arriving at this object, such as • them.
preventive police, ought to be adopted. Mr. Hominess said, that to all prosecutions these
Mr. Rica ROO thought that some improvement might gentlemen were es offirio parties ; and as to the in-
take place in the system observed in prisons. so far as stances cited, the Learned Counsel employed were
respected the admission of persons who sleight see that called the King's Attorneys. With regard to their
the prisoners were properly treated. not going the circuit, it was a sort of etiquette fur
Mr. Marne!) was sure, that the indiscriminate ad- them to prosecute only in town, but, notwithstanding,
mission of persons to the prisons (amid not be content- they received their fees fur all.—(No, no, from the
plated. lle never knew that persons having the pro- Ministerial side.)
per authority fruits the Secretary of State were refused Mr. D. W. Haevneavithout giving any opinion upon
access to any part of the prison. the necessity of so nuany prosecutions, said Ise should
Mr. RIVARD() would say for himself, that he was de- be glad to see the account promised, as it would appear
nied admittance at this prison. 1 in how many cases the Attorney and Solicitor Gesterals
Mr. BENN eT thought it justice to state, that he never ; were employed. He himself had, on a former (ices-
applied for authority to be admitted into this or other I Sion, stated to the House, that, for 7110 pruseentions
'Hiltons, without experiencing immediate and polite at- in the Exchequer, the Attorney-General received ten
tention. guineas each. He thought there was • justice in
Aftfr a few trot ''s from the- Loan Mayon, which we the observations of the Hon. Member for Westminster,
could not hear, the resolution was agreed to. as to the best talents of the Bar being engrossed by
21,000!. were then voted to defray the expeeses of I
1 the Crown to the prisomoa ; for it was a practice, as
the Establishment of the Penitentiary at Milbank. I soon as any man was beginning to distinguish him-,
Mr. AIIUTTIINOT said, he had next to move for a self in the profession, to hold out the bait of a silk
grant towards defraying the expenses of perfecting the i gown : and there were few instances where the tempts-
Caledonian Canal. Ile said, according to the estimates, I don failed. As, therefore, the silk gown was sup-,
Ithe sum of 1i11,001,/. would fully complete this great I posed to be time reward of merit, and as a sort of ad.
' work. Of that sum, however, he would now only ask j ventitions importance was given it in the eyes of.
f a grant of 15,1100/. Jury, the prisoner could not have the benefit of a
Lord Aurnosur bee.ged *to remind the Committee* King's Counsel unless he paid 101. in the first iattanair
that the year b..fore last, a pledge had been given that . for a dipetsaation from the Crown.
"nu more Oulu 25,0001. would be asked for the cote- The resolution was then agreed to.
pleting of this woe:. The following same were then voted :
' Sir H. PARNELL thought it best to have the whole &SOUL for the National Vaccine Establishment.
sum voted at once, and let the work he concluded. Ile HMV. 17s. I. for prime*/ the Ads of the two
Pease.
oHorses
thou 4ht it a u'orkonwitsteit with great skill and success,
gPemimet. w merlieet for the see of Sheriffs
the delleionoy o f the
expense,p
ti c* aeitsetes
ortelast-
' lied *Wild prove one Of gnat national utility. ‘of
veer in the seam department; also for printing Bills IN the
Mr. Aitivr-rallo r teas willing to assent to the sag- house-of Lords.
ion% of liming the whole sutu voted at once. I g -estl 1.411111. Its. 4d. to supply the dadeleney of the expense for
i Mr. Mull speed to the. course euggested, hot he printing the Votes of the Sesaioa of 1919.
had his tippratt:nslons that this would nut he the last ; taw/. for priming the votes of am present gassier,.