The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-02-11 00:00:00

,Zl-1-1011„

LONDON, MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 1822.

" The Caret for which HAMPDIIN fell is the Field. esti SYDNEY Ified ea the &Veld !"

ACA RD.—Mossrs. DOSS sad Co. &mavens. bays
opened as Establishment at No. 7, Joraya-stroet. St.
•
I James's —(8os Advartlsessoot at dot bask ea* paper.)

THE THIRD NUMBER OP MOORE'S NA.
TIONAL AIRS, with Symphoeles sad Aimeetug-
meats. by H. R. BISHOP.
J. POWER has the isogon ofassoustiog to the Moiled
'World the Third Number of this highly popular Work,
which will be published as Tsunami next, the 14th lastaak
pries its.-11th Feb. Mt

IMPIIRML PARLIAMRNT.
--....--
HOUSE OR LORDS.--Savvanay.
Tao Holm met at flee o'clock.
BILLS RELATING TO INELAND-4NDICSINITY
CLAUSE.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL mewed the Bret restlisg
of the Bill fee suppress's; Inearrecties itt **PAL
.
The Bill having bees rem.. ..
Tba Bari of uvempoom Atom to itirdillii
the Day fir suspending a Standing Order el the
Hosea. by which it was declared irregular to pass soy
Bill through all its stages in one night, with a view.
u stated by the Noble Lord, of carrying through the
Insurrection Bill at the preemie sittieg.
Lord KING said. that the Nible Earl laving an-
110110CitII his intention of passing the Bill sow ander
consideration through the Huse this night. he wished
Ito ask a question respecting it. 'Under other cit.
cuntstasees he would have waited till the Bill was
printed sad laid upon the table. but he hoped the
time at which this Bill was introduced. sad the hasty
meaner io which it was to be carried through, would
he considered an excuse for his now appealing to the
Noble Earl for some information open its cosE e. t
What he wished to ask the Noble Earl was, et
the Bill for suppressing insurrection in Ireland cos;
tailed a clause far indemnifying all possess whatever
who acted ender it. frontal the consequences of such
acting, however illegal it might be ? If the Bill cos-
tined each a clause, be would say that it costerred a
&pierces and estraurdisary power spots the Nagle-
Mi. of Ireland—a body of men upon whom; this
Hesse was not bound to look with particular favour.
He would hes4ate mach before be give such a poweri
even to the Magistrates of England ; but he protested
altogether against its being entrusted .tat those of the
sister country. If the Noble Earl's answer was in the.
aGruastive, it furnished stronger and additional ob-
jections against the principle of the Bill itself. And
not only an express claim of that nature. .but any
words which could bear such a construction, should
be omitted, and if there were any such, upon the rifest
of which any doubt could resale, it was most desirible
ties all doubt apse do Important a clans* should be
reasywed. and. will, .tka‘ektw, sad as the SIDS Write

aracr"'"n7lßd fie to—The Judges. But as it wan.-1
said by tioveromeat that this measure to be effectual
must be prompt, sad that there was no use is passing
it all if it did sot pass immediately, upon consideration
that he did not think its progress ought to be im-
peded on that ground, the course therefore which
he advised was, that in the Committee some Noble
Lord would move to shorts. its duration ; to limit its
force to six weeks instead of six months, and its the
meantime the opinion of the Judges might be taken
upon the effect of the words to which he alluded. The
Noble Lord added, that it was Irons his not having
seen the Bills that he asked the question of the Noble
Earl opposite ; be did not know that the clause to
which he alluded rue contained in the Bill, but if it
was, he cap d a hope that some Noble Lord would
move to abridge the time that the Bill was to be in
force.
Tfie Earl of LIVERPOOL, in reply, observed that
the Bill now before the House was as exact copy of
the Insorectioe Act which was before in force in Ire-
land. The House was aware of the effect which that
measure had, and of the manner which it operated.
No additional provision bad been made to the present
Bill, sod indeed he (Lord L.) had on a previous **ca-
sino expressly stated, that all that was sought now
was to revive powers which had before been in force.
The present measure was one of necessity, and nothing
was so essential to i.s success as its being promptly
passed. It would expire on the let of August. If,
however, there was auy thing imperfect is it, this was
sot the time to go too critically into its details, and
in a short time the whole 'abject would be brought
under the consideration of ParliaMent. When that
came to pass. it would thee hr lien to the wisdom of
Parliamest to make such alterations and modifications
in the Bill as the expediency of the case demanded.
He wished the House to understand that the present
was an exact copy of the last Insurrection Act, and
there was therefore no new powers asked for os the
present occasion.
Lord KING complained that no answer bad been
given to his question. He had asked if the Bill toe-
tained an indemnity clause, and the Noble Earl de-
clined gives a distinct reply. If no such clause ex-
isted, an answer in the negative would be at once sim-
ple and easy, and from no such answer being given,
be (Lord Kisg) inferred that there was a clause of
that nature in this Bill. The Noble Earl's statement
as to the time when the Bill was to expire. did not
remove the objection as to the effect of the indemnity
clause. If the fact of its expiring on the Ist of Au-
gust was an answer to the danger of that clause, surely
when it expired is six weeks hence there would be a
greater security. In so long a period as six Months
a great deal of injestiee might be done tinder this
Bill, when an understasdieg was held out to Magis-
trates that they were previously indemnified for all
their acts; bet shortening. the time. or even the
show of doubt throws upon the matter by referring
the question to the Judges, would) check upon
then,. • •
Lord ELLEN BOROUGH observed, that if this. BM
was the same as the last Imoirrectioi Art, the eity of
which was in the
,Statute Book. there was aid Ilaris
of indemnity in it, for be had looked at the Act hi that
book. He was not prepared to say that a *lir staite
of things, by renderiug the duty of the oligistrates

mon difilcoh, bud oat called for new protection to
them; bet there was nthing in the last Aet which
could be contend into in indemnity clause. The,
Noble Lord suggested that the words 'Allt Bill alibi'
be reed by the clerk.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said that It would per.
haps be Isere regular to let bias apse the debate first,
aid Noble Lords would then bare as opportunity of
aaSee. ' eg the contents of the Bill in its future stages.
LORD CHANCELLOR said that the present
. ,
was irregular. The tondos sow before'
lbs How was fur suspending a mediae order of the
Wirt. dud of this question the @Aegean of a senate
shoos lir the Bill, whether right or wrote, made no
limb, !fusels a clause was In the Bill, a time would
seine Vino its merits could be properly discussed, as
woe ad ths, dentin of the Bill itself; bet these ghee.
tin!. 'proper for tbe Cnanittee, were irregelarlt
late the peruse trestles. As yet tte
sot keen wt or set the clause to which
' riviss belee Lord alluded was io the Bill; aid in such
R would be of se avail to consult the Judges
leffect of such a clause. Annualise nitre was
a these, this was sot a time to commit the
Until the Bill came to a certain stage, it J.te
Mild dot be determined whether there would bee no-
smelly for taking the opipion of tholledgeettpon the
ideate is question. He would jheidfin ante more beg
pf tire Noble Lord to wait till Ilirproper season for
solemnstieg upon the effects of this clause, if any such
*bead be found is the Bill.
Lord HOLLAfillsaid, that with great deference to
the lin of the Illisle and Leaned Lord he thought
thin - tie timetir discussing this question. His
Roble rleed had asked the Noble Berl opposite *ha-
t
skits there was sot is this Bill an indemnity cinse,'
pi words bearing the same effect. Assuming right or
wrong, that such a clause was in the Bill. and that
there was some ambiguity as to its effect, he proposed
eetineen that ambiguity by a reference to the Judges.
61 Pt" said the Noble and Learned Lord spun the
Inglimelr, " if there be such a clause in the Bill, this
to me*. time for consulting the Judges." True, it
was ifot the time to consult the Judges, but it was the
prekse time for putting a question to this House.—
Awl wises he heard so much of a went of order, be
ban those sticklers for order attend towhee they would
wort now proposing to do theasselessz—when they
inn calling upon the House to spspeid its standing
order—V. hurry a Bill through in one sight against
de usages of ads Mese, sad in direct violation of
these rules which bad been framed by the wisdom of our
siesertiors. When(ioning with such views, they had
A sit to complain oil' want of order. But then it
. said, that if this Bill was at all ambiguous, it
n 414
lie epee to amendment by the wisdom of
slatigv.igigpr, tlimf, ji• wisketto ask the,
s OritTeaTirilat by this areasseat,
and be oeutended that when an ambiguous Bill was
about to be passed, his Noble Friend was justified is
opposing the suspension of the eta/Whig order of she
House until such ambiguity was removed. It was
clear that if any ambiguity existed with regard be
this Bill, it ought to be referred to the Judges, and it
was quite right to oppose the introduction of it, until
all doubt was removed. A reference to the Judges
was certainly the only way of removing the doubt, but
if the occasion was se argent as not to admit of delay,
then it was advisable to correct the operation of the
Bill as to time, when the °pinkie of the Judges could
be taken in the meantime. In sound reason and order,
therefore, his Noble Friend was warranted I. oppo-
sing the suspension of the standing order, unless a sa-
tisfactory Bill was introduced, and such modifications
introduced into it, as appeared t? bin necessary. And
he (Lord Holland) trusted that a Bill of this nature,
which affected the lives and properties of their feline-
subjects would not pass this House without great did
ference of opinion prevailing upon it. He was band
to say, at all events, that when the Noble Earl was
moving to transgress a standing order of the House, be
ought not to bare charged his Noble Friend wits
being oat of order open slight grounds.
Lord REDESDALE said, that without waiting to
ascertain the actual existence of a certain clause in
this Bill, certain Noble Lords bad been speculating
nese what its effects would be. One Noble Lord
took for granted that there was a clause of express in-
demnity to shield all persons whatever, whilst another
Noble Lord doubted whether the clause would have so
extensive an operation. Until the House saw the
'clause, it was premature to be speculating upon its
probable effect. The House had been told by the
Noble Earl, that this Bill was in all respects the same
as the lust Insurrection Act. The House was there-
fore cllaed upon to legislate upon a question which was
sot entirely new to them. _ . _

The question was then put upon the suspension of
the Standing Order, and carried.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL then rose to propose the
second reading of the Insurrection Bill, intimating that
if it should be carried, he bad a second Hill to propose,
namely, one for detaining suspected persons in custody
in Ireland; which Hill also he trusted the House would
pass through its various stages this night. He approach-
ed this snhject with the deepest regret, because he, in
common with every man in the House, could not bet la-
ment that the state of things rendered it necessary to
ann the executive Government of Ireland with powers
so large as were proposed by this measure; powers
which were never before entrusted with the executive
Government of this part of the United Kingdom, but
unhappily necessary on more than one occasion to ex-
tend to the Goverment of .the sister Kingdom. The
question, however. for the House to consider was,
thee it was sot expedient and necessary—he would ra-
ther say necessary—either to entrust such powers to the
Irish Government, or to adopt some other measure of
equal vigour. The Papers on the table contained am-
ple information respecting the state of Ireland ; bet even
if they were not before theiv Lordships, he would have
no difficulty to say that the outline of the fame which
had takes place in Ireland was sufficient, by, know*.
Maly. to make it the duty of their Lordships,
.cs thq up-
litigation of Irish Hort rumeati to entrust it wilf,s, car-
fain powers be ;;; hell as to time end' tki of
the case. I i order to enable its to resteri trio Illty
and peace. In this view of the sorest, it woolitleit,sof
licimst fur bite to state very skier ly the puma features,

PRICE SEVEN PENCE.

of the case, upon which the bills were funded, because
be admitted it might be said, and he had oo doubt it
would be said, that whilst measures were adopted to re-
press immediate outrages, the Legislators: ought to go to
the root of the evil, sad at the same time adopt such
measures as would prevent such calamities in future.
The latter subject might very properly be hrought be-
fe r, Parliament, for its consideration, at another season ;
but he contended, that when a house was in dames, the
first step was to extinguish the fire, and then to consider
the means of priventing a recurrence of the wlsfortune.
The only point to consider at present was, whether the
evil was sufficient to demand an extraerdieary luterrsi-•
' tion. Upon. the geweral r
tubances in Ireland b-
There was nothing
rections ; they did L
bintility to, or discontent
lating to the authorities
tinfOrtunately of a very
heft§ sources melt deeper
impossible to look at them
was solely an '
against tits lives
from private fend!,
On looking at the
tainly appeared to
try ; bat it was
tion and Intention
and that symptoms
in the Most distant
Imes no disposition'
meat to apply for ex%
found thst they could
ordinary course of ! _ 4r the
facet of the evil last strums. the only measure which
they hid taken was to endeavoir to bring the Offen-
ders to trial. In this they had riseceided t add it
had been hoped and expected that the awfal'etasples .
made at Limerick would hive hid • the effect of cheek- •
ing the evil. Unfortunatelf tbai dopSetailen: outer
tained both by the Irish sod Veglish Cloiernineett.l
had been disappointed, and they now asked for addh;
tional powers, after having fried the force of the
nary laws, and found it insufficient. Under these sir-'
cumstanres, he should propose two Bills, which were'
not new measures, but measures which experience
proved on former occasions to have been effective in
immediately putting down evils similar to the present.'
Ile knew that some would contend sbat the same od-z
jest might be gained by as increase of the military
force is Ireland. In this view of the cue this remedy'
would not apply. A military force might disperse and
must he employed to defeat an armed body of loittr-
gents, bet the object was to prevent armed bodies from
assembling. These Bills were proposed as preventive
weasel**, directed not egoistic the origin of the evil,
bet againit its esseltsiee sea eltellinunce. Alt seed
u the immediate peril ao the publhs peace bad mks
usbdoirehimotrowiti-lio-elso•eienstioinevomwaummomAlk- - -

roneiliatiou. Whoa that period arrived he world one
it fairly, but this question, be contended, ought not
to be mixed up with measures of conciliation. Their
connection together, far from proving effectual at pre-
sent, would take away every chance of pratieg down
the matting le rrrrr alone. The measure proposed
was a temporary measure, applicable only to extraor-
dinary contingescies, and in this view he trusted the
house ',wild bastes the consideration of the 11111 now
submitted for adoption.
_ _

The Earl of lII:ESSINGTON could not stiffer thes
measures to pass without some eommeat on the speech
of the Noble Earl (of Liverpool.) If the Lord Lens
tenant advised the adoption of such measures, he did
not mean to say that his recommendation was not to
be attended ar ; hat if the executive td.mernment of
'reload was the same now as is the time of the Bake
of Richmond, what was called the resommen.lation of
the Lord Lienteeant might be no more than that of
the Secretary of State for the Home Department, or
the Irish Secretary. If these Bill, were to be acco
ponied with some measure of future advantage to Ire-
load, he should have the less objection to them.
Lord RINI/ thought it highly proper that the BM
should undergo some nattliScatios. if passed in its
present state, Parliament would have no opportoni'y
of reconsidering it before the let of August, a tidal
when, it was known to every person, is what a 1113,
venly way business was untlacted, and bow thin an
attendance there was even upon the most important
questions. He should therefore propose, in the co ty-
toile', to limit the Bill to six weeks in p!ac- of sic
months. It should be recollected that this Bill wss
not firs- passed in the British Parliament. It •had i.s
origin in the Irish Parliament, the conduct of
in its mischievous mode of legiilati.ig for the comma,
was onemf the arguments used in support of the Union.

Loyd CALL IiORPE sail. that feeling the strou;-
est objection to . the Mils on canaille boil groun,is,
be thought it his duty to esnlain the reasons which
induced him to support them at present. In the dis-
patches laid span the tah:e he saw nothin4 Wintin;
of those symptoms, which threatened most serious
and imminent danger, unless the eel were pat a
lamp to by non.. s,see.ly and efficacious rearm ly. If they
could not recognise in the present tiist...riances that
fullness of atrocity to which( inner rebellions reached
in that country. it was because they hal not yet
reached that mate sty of matte's', to which, if not
speedily pat &stop 10,11 ey seemed to be fast hastening.
One circumstance peculiarly alarming, In the prese:ic
robe:lion was, that none of tbe Ja,nses assigned for
pr, rions rebelions in Ireland colt account account fur it.—
The events now passing proved a filestraay dis as
• ate s f society is that country, arising fret' &cent-
s anc. • not se c. p ibl. , h • belie% ed, of four • ;ay. reme-
dy. It was un throe gr• suds he thorgbt a .o.e s.rcat;
measures necessary. He was not pre, .red to str that
tioa now proposed errs the %cry best ; hitt atsich
WIN It UPI n a desirable to wait for other Footsies;
e'en awaits they .• igbt be U 4 re Othenci..4. da•A.tse•i7
**Outsets:a diem the pre. ens. rise I nvorrerti .11 bin
had at. boss this claim to support. that it h J 1. en
tales' aldose sled bus d most effi,aci.ust He ft It no
Isesimtien. in entansting to the peep tiro .0 I start
tb application...lt the is •Abore propoao.,T: eir b voetht
40 • re, r. bath ad dwelt wisp propfki ile a and !se who
we to resew theca, • very pcireur I As

general spirit and character of the die
.1 he would wake $ few observations:,
1g of a political nature in these moor-
d not arise from any disting ode/4,$ I
iseootent wifb the Oovernenevit; Si'.
unities of tbelitlatut.
a very diffpronVieWre. and ' •
b deeper than they math coati- y
c at them without magi.
insurrection against •
of the owners of inch "'"'",•A;
uds and distills to I f.ro r •
e Beetle of the dlstirbsdeii'*bb3kf
to be confined to /art-0 HE, cenig;
clear and obeli:A t tgla
O to d die",
as o bad displayed' It
tot cwt. • There would is •
on r* sh od the part of the Gonne
r extraordinary ikftvere if they bar
mold repress the'dlitnAtstooei by ti
of laws. Breit attet; the imisheasii2