The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-03-31 00:00:00

1N.E.••••,4.--,-

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considered, the opposition to it would be general. The.
Bill proposed to give the Commissioners of Sewers ap
unlimited poser of taxation.
After a conversation between Mr. CCILTEIS, Mr.
eUII,,CEN, Mr. DICKENSON, Mr. C. JrnxinsoN, Mr.
lerrELEl ON, Dr. DODION, and Mr. WILOTTESIZT, the
Petition was ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. C. JANKINSON presented a Petition from the
Commissioners of Rye Harbour in favor of the Bill. It
appeared on examination, that it was not signed by all
the Crsimnissioneri. A conversation followed as to the
regularity of the Petition, when as the corporate seal
a+ tint affixed to the Petition, it could only bo consi-
tiered as the Petition of the individuals signing it. The
Hoeour.ible Member, as we understood, withdrew it.
Mr. Trasant., from the City Remembrancer's Of-
fice, promoted certain &coitus relating to the Duty on
oats.
The Gramponnd Disfranchisement Indemnity Bill was
read a aecond time and committed.
Mr. GRANT brought up the Report on the Irish
Court of Justice Compensation Bill.—The Report was
read and agreed to.
The Irifib Starch Duties' Bill was read a second time
and committed.
Mr. BLACK MANE presented a Petition from the
President and other Members of the Chamber of Com-
merce at Manchester, against any alteration in the
mode of takiug Corn averages.
Mr. F. ROBINSON said he still retained the opinion
he held when-he proposed the Bill, the second reading
of which was fixed for this evening ; and be there-
fore believed the effect of that Bill would not be such
as the petitioners apprehended. Ile begged to ob-
serve, with reference to a remark which had been
made upon his absence on a former sight, that al-
though the ride was that every Member of the House
'should attend in his place during the whole sitting,
yet it was the understanding of the House, that those
who had important duties to perform were not to be
called upon fur a strict obedience to the rule.
The Petition was to lie on the Table.
Mr. ROBINSON then postponed the second read-
ing of the Corn Averages Rill until blotidayselmight.
A Message from the Lords announced their Lord-
si.ip's Assent to a Bill relating to Ireland.
Mr. ELLIS presented a Petition from an Officer of
one of the Irish Courts of Justice, praying for com-
pensation in lieu of his being deprived of his Office.
Af er a few words from S:r .1. NEWPORT, who
fienictl that the Petitioner was entitled to any coin-
peramtioo, the Petitiou was ordered to lie on the
Table.
Oa the motion of Mr. ABERCROSIIIY, the House
went into a Committee upon the Irish Trial for Trea-
son li,ll.—The Chairman theti reported the Resold-
ton.is of the Committee to the Mouse, and the Report
was agreed to.
Ott the motion of Mr. LUSHINGTON, it was or-
dered that the House, at its rising, should adjourn to
Mo::day next. •
Sir hi. W. ItIDLEY presented a Petition from the
'Owners of Collieries in the vicinity of the River Tyne,
praying that any alteration in the Duty on Coal might
be general, and not partial.
Mr. 11 ALLACE moved that the Order of the Day
fur taking into consideration the Report of the Com-
mittee on the Timber Duty Bill, should be read, for
the purpose of postponing the consideration of the Re-
port until %Venn...slay ',est.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY sail, lie should not oppose the
motion ; but lest his sileu-.e might be considered as
acquiescence in the measure to be considered, he
thought peeper to observe that on the Report being
brought under d'scussiiii., he trusted he should be able
to couvince the House, that the Bill would injure the
interests it Intended to protect.
The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) moved the order of the
day fur the second reading Of the Capital Crimes De-
feline Biil.
The order of the day being read,
Mr. MARTIN said, the propriety of allowing a
prisoner to make his defence by Counsel, appeared so
obvious, that he was really at a loss to know what was
the objection to the Bill. In a case where reason was
so clear in favour of the proposed enactment, be at
present should not advance any authority its support
of 4t. It was, he thought, an anomaly, if the English
law rhoul.l, upon charges of the highest, as well as of
the lowest class, be allowed to defend himself by Coun-
sel, and vet in the intermediate classes, many of which
affected ille prisoner's lite, he suss not allowed that ad-
'vantage. in the ease of Iligh Treason, for instance, and
ig that of Assault, the prisoner was allowed to defend
'himself hy Counsel ; but in that of hlurfli r, and all other
Felonies,le was not so allowed. lie was aware it would
be said, that the Court were always Counsel for the pri-
soner ; but it it should appear that this circumstance was
:sot the case, not only would the argument fail, but the
necessity of the present Bill would then become studies
puled. To shew that the Court were not Comae' for a
prisoner. he would instance the case of Bellingham.—
The charge against that individual was that of tonstuit-
tisg one of the most atrocious murders ever heard of.—
The offence was committed on the 13th of May, 1812.
,On the 14th, a Bill of Indictment was found against
Bellingham, and on the 15th Le was put upon his trial.
lii applied to the Court by affidavit to put off bis trial,
on the ground that he had witnesses resident at Liver-
pool. 141 in could give material evidence in his favour.—
The evidence be (Mr. M.) believed, was to spew the pri.l
sorter's insanity. This motiun the Court refused ;1
althongli the affidavits stated, he believed, every circuno
stance generally stated in affidavits of that nature. In
this case, therefore, be conceived there bail been a fai-I
lure of justice. He (Mr. M.) would mention another
case. A esentryosan of his was charged with a bur-1
eery. The fact was, that the prisoner, upon a cry of
"1 stop thief," joined a watchman to pursuit of the per-
son who had actrilly committed the robbery. and eel
failing to overtake the thief, returned with die watch-
man.ljpon this a woman put her head out of a window,
and said, " 1 charge° that there man as the thief."—(A
tau h.)—The pew man was indicted and put upon his
trial at Milford. and be (Mr. M.) went there to comfort
bius.—(baughter.)—The first witnessagaint the prisoner
was a clammy. He could not speak a word, and there-
fore the Court heard what he said through an lnterpre-
ter.---(tieneral Lisughter.)—On the witness being asked
what was his religion. the Interpreter said, he answered,
by asking whether the Judge had any podding in his
pocket.—(lmoghter.)--However, be should state that
the poor man had previously applied in the usual mode
to have his trial postpooed, on the ground that he could
produce witnesses to his character. The Judge said he
would give him credit for a good character, and so put
him upon Ms trial. He (Mr. M.) should not further
take tap the time of the House. He thought the-justice
of the Hill must he widest to all, aid he should there-
fore move its second reading.
The SOLICITOIL-OHNIRAL opposed the motion.—
Ile had me doubt the Hos. Mem intended the Bill for
the beset% of peteesere. hat is hie (the Solicitor-Uene-

. support
IEO4I it. .Von the modal' tisposopoue the trial iu that
very case the prisoner had tl,e Isenelit of the assistaece
of Counsel.—(Hear, hear. hear.)—lt cnuld 'hears br
so when a prisoner wished to apply for a postpone-
ment of his tri.l. Ile really could not see the object
of a reference to Mr. Itellingliam's rase, unless it wee
to throw a slur upon the Judges who tried him. la
that case, the question wits, not what had been the
prisoner's general state of mind; but whether Ise had
been in a state of laity at the time of committing
the offence. The other case cited by the Hon. Mem-
ber he did not think it necessary to answer ; but he
could only say, that it bad been indeed a strange ano-
maly in the practice of our criminal courts, if the
statement was correct. lie contended, that the Judges
were Counsel for the prisoner, not only in a legal
sense, hut were so, laberionsly, substantially, and
even astutely. It happened that upon nine out of
every ten trials, a strong case is as made out against
the prisoner. In these cases, if a prisoner were al-
lowed Counsel, anti Isis Counsel were to remain silent,
it would necessari:v by to the di.-advantage of his
client. If, on the other band, he should thick
proper to speak, he w;etild most probably he driven to
have recourse to soithis.r.• thi, it would he the
duty of the Judge is e•sole,e ; so that it might be the
effect of the present Bitt to make the Judge Lotinsrl
against the prisoner. It was known too, that under
the present p, actite, the Counsel for a prosecution*
knowing that the priaoner could not defend himself by
Counsel, thr car with moderation mid temper,
and indeed, confined himself to a dry detail of the facts
against the prisoner, as they were to he made out by
doe evidence. But if Counsel were to be elleaved for a
prisoner, it was not to he supposed that the Coun-
sel fur prosecutions would contiesue this mode of open-
ing the case against a prisoner. Some stress had been
thrown upon the argittnent arising from a view of the
case of High Treason. in which a prisoner was allowed
the benefit of ('unused. But persons amuse,' of High
Treason had many other advantages besides that of a
defence by Counsel. They were allowed a given time
to prepare for trial, a list of the witnesses, and a list of
the jurors. If the case of Iligh Treason was to be re-
ferred to, why were tint tl:oee advantages introduced
into the Bill before the House ? The 'knowable Mover
had he thought in this io.,tance toren somewhat incon-
sistent smith himself. But the rase of high Treason
Was au exception to the general law. High Treason
was the greatest of Al offences, anal as it was a political
offence the law presumed that the whole force of the
Government was arrayed against tee prisoner, and that
less temper was observed in the proses:wine than there
was upon ordinary occasions. These were s of his
objections to der principlraif the. Bill ; but he saw others
to it in detail. Comsat% it seemed, were to be as-
signed by the Court. Was the exertion of Counsel to
be gratuitous, or was it to be paid like the expense of
a measure proposed by the Noble Lord (Aldeurpe), who
suggested- th.tt that expense should be paid out of the
County Bates. There were altogether about 31wo pro-
secutions annually of the description referred to n
i the
Bill ; and the House wirlet, therefore, judge of the ex-
pense which would attend the measure in this point of
view. Ile observed also that, although the prisoner leas
to be allowed the beerto of Counsel. no means were
suggested fur the cotonnutaitiation of the primmer with
his Counsel. Such a l'illlslssUitication could only, lee
believed, be !nano:lit about by the intermediation of an
attorney. Upon the whole, lee saw uo advautage what-
ever as likely to result in the Bid, and lee therefore
should oppose it. looked, he conceived, that the bene-
fit of such a Bill would be the last thing which a prisoner
would reqnire. It, however, the Hon. Member *mild
bring forward a tateasttre sill this subject of a more qua-
lified and consequently of a less objectionable nature,
it might be well worthy the best cousideration of the
House.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, lie should not
refer to die institutes selected by the Hon. Member fur
lialway, because lee thought the general administration
of the laws highly praiseworthy; and if those instances
were exceptions. he should propose to ronsister them
with a gravity which they had not met from the Hoes.
Member.—(elear, hear, hear.)—'lhe lime. and Learned
Alen:ober who bad jest sat down, could not bet know
that originally the law sa, unifier's*, and that no pri-
soner could he heard by Counsel in any caw. If the
argument of ter Hon. and Learned Member were to be
allowed at all that this Bill *wild be a disadvantage to
a prisoner, that arg ttttt ent might be pusher' to any
degree, and might apply to the case of High Treason ;
and thence it might he contended that dee privileges
afforded by the law for that offence were a disadvantage
to the prisoner, and consequently that tee Statute was
nugatory. Indeed it was sonsweliat singular that the
arguments of the Hoes. and Learned Member least all
been advanced against the passing of that same. Statute.
This would be seen on referring to the Debates at the
period in question. Ile was rather surprised that in so
dry, if not so dull a sciener as the law, its professors
should have recourse to the boldest figures of expres-
sion. lee Hose. and Learned \trustier lead said that
the Judges were astute in their anxiety to he Counsel
for thee prisoner. Would it be said that a Judge Was
justified in using thee same expressions which might be
used by a Consisel? Partiality was allowable in a Coun-
sel but not in a Judge; and indeed a JUllga was pecu-
liarly enabled to arrive at a proper conclusion by an
attention to the coedit-ling arguments of Counsel. Bat
the lion. and Learned Member lead said, that if the ail-
advantage of the present Bill were to be allowed, why
slsonW not all the advantages be allowed which were
afforded to persons arrows, of High Treason? Bs the
Law of Scotland all those advantages were allowed to.
lee believed, almost every prisoner. The 'knowable anal
Learned Member appeared to think that the Kill would
be disadvantageous to prisoners. If by that it was
meant that many guilty persons escaped by the present
law, he (Sir James) for our was anxious that the Bill
Amite' pass. The Ilan. acid Learned Member concluded
by sapporting the Bill.
Sir J. YORKE said that an objection oreurreit to him
which had escaped both the Hoes. and ',earned Members.
It was upon the score of time. If two Counsel were al-
lowed on each side upon every ease, it might not be un-
fair to suppose that Cosines Ihir 'torero' on the one and
Counsellor Bother'em me the other, would speak
for two hours, and this, taking the number Vases at
3000. would amount to PLOW hours asaually.—(A

laugh.)
The ATTORNF.V.OF.NER.‘I, said. that in order to
support the Bill moue mischiefmight to be %hewn to
have arisen from the present pr.setice. If it could be
sliewn that the inmoresit hail satfereil, or that justice
had not been administered because prisoners had not
been allowed Counsel, lie would he really to support the
11111, bat all persons conversant with the subject, were
aware that every assistance was afforded to prisoners
upon their defence. It the Bill were to he entertained
upon theoretical grounds, lie knew not where the prin-
ciple could stop. Trial by Jnry might be abolished
upon theory, for certainly nothing at the first view ap-
peared so repugnant to reason as to say, that twelve
men should be unanimous in every ease before a Court
of Justice.—(Hear, hear !)—lt was fount, however, that
the system worked well in prattle*. and nq ground
whatever hail been 'hewn which could justify its illtro
tion in the present initanee.

1 ;..

replied.—The leeerned Attfiency.‘.,.
him to shew the intonveniente of the
There was a time when prisoners were
. to produce prisoner) upon _oath in theirde-
fence, vet that practice hail been altered, althongh the
Attorney-fieneral of the day !eight probably have called
upon these who altered it to shew its inconvenience.
He bad the authority of Blackstone for the
present measure. 'That beamed Writer said it was irre-
concileable with the justice of our law,
_ that a prisouer
should not he allowed the benefit of Coutise- I. The ar-
aliment which had been urged spinet. the Bill on Ilse
ground of its 04:C1114011111g a waste of time, could not he
supported ; for a prisoner might now, if he pleased. read
a folio volume in his defence. With respect to Belling-
ham's case, he begged to observe, that he was aware the
prisoner's motion had toren made by Counsel. He (Mr.
M.) urged the case, to shew, that else Court were not
Counsel for the prisoner; and with respect to the trial
itself, he wished either the Attorney or Solicitor-Gene-
rel. or any man who wore a bar gown, would read the trial.
and say, whether be would have done what had been
done by the Court on that occasion. Referring to the
argument which hail been urged against him as to. the
other advantages given to prisoners ander charges ofor
High Treasons, and which advantages were obtaineorby
prisoners in Scotland, he thought the true way to fry
the argument was this—if the law were in England the
same it was in Scotland, would the How entertain any
proposal to take away the benefit of that law?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL explained.—He was
not present upon the trial of Bellingham, but he had
no reason to believe that the Judges had acted on that
occasion otheroise than with the strictest propriety.
The motion was then pot and negatived without a
division.
Mr. LENNARD, referring to the returns upon the
table respeeting applications fur admission into the read-
ing-room:I r f the British Mu:about, observed, that they
'yelled the Order of the House, he should therefore,
on Moloolay next, move for a more distinct return. The
Hon. Webber then gave notice, that on Monday next,
he should move for a Return of all curls epplications for
adobilssion into reading-rooms of the British Museum,
AS had been postponed.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
The Order of the Day was moved for taking these
Estimates into consideration.
Mr. HUMP, said, he was anxious that the great
oil:parity in romparative expense of our Staff for the
veers 1192 and 1:4•21, should be brought under the no-
tice of that House, and foe that purpose he would move
two Resolutions. Ile could assure thoHouse.thit those
Resolutions were founded accurately upon doe accounts
before the House. The lion. Member then tooted two
Resolutions, declaring in effect that the total expense of
the Staff for the veer icr2, was 33,000/.; and that for
the veer I f 1.21, it2,OOU/.
'flee
question was then put from the Chair, and urge-
;tired without a division.
The Order of the Ikty for the House resolving itself
into a Committee of Snpply having been read—tin the
question that the House should then resolve itself into
the said Committee,
Mr. III: ME again rose, and observed that lie load not
taken the sense of the. House on the last question, be-
cause it was possible that from 1•01110 error of one or two
figures, it might meet the same fate as a similar motion
he had made on a similar occasion. Ile had now, how-
ever, a resolution to submit, on which lie should think
himself hound to take the sense of the House. The lion.
lientletnan then iiiii yell as a resolution, "That the pro-
gressive increase of salaries in every public department
was in consequence of the increase of business its time of
War, and the depreciation of the currency, arising from
a suspension of cash payments ; and that peace being
now returned and a metallic currency restored, it is pros
per that all the salaries which have been increased since
1793, be revised, for the purpose of seeing what of thee
may be restored to their original rate."
Lord PALMERSTON said, th- pro position was of a
general and weeping nature, and therefore if the House
were called upon to notice it all, it ought to have general
notification of it. Ile could not assent to the assertion,
it contained, that we had returned to a metallic currency,
he knew only that we were taking measures to return.
With respect to the fall in prices, he was not aware that
any fall had taken place in some of the most essential,
items of expense, such as house rent, and wearing apei
panel. Ile could not, therefore, upon the whole.,
things
this a proposition applicable to the subject the House
was prepared to discuss.
Mr. RARING could not understand how this was not
a proper opportunity for proposing a Resolution like
that which had been proposed by his lion. Friend.
With reference to the Nuble Lord's :.nitoesolversion on
that part of the resolution, which referred to the exist-
ence of a metallic currency, he most take leave to say,
that it we were not actually returned to that state, we
were no farther from it, than the Ist of May. The lie-
solution was not to pledge the House to any specific re-
duction, hut merely that they would go into the
consideration of it ; and he (Mr. Baring) hoped, that
if any Gentlemen were then present who bad voted some;
tissue ago against the imposition of certain taxes, they
would not now be so inconsistent with themselves, as lel
supply the metres of supporting that extravagance, which
was the cause of the heavy taxation which the couutry
was made to hear.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQI'ER thought
that the object of the Honourable Member for Aber-
deen might be attained much better, by making dis-
tinct and specific prombsitions on the separate Esti-
mates for the fliiPrent departments of Public Service.
Mr. BENNETT thought the Right Hon. Gentleman
had quite miseonceived his lion. Edifiers Resolution.
Ile tuaintaincel that those who bad voted for the diminu-
tion in the taxes of 1,4410,0110/. were bound in common
honour and decency not to vote against the Revolution
of his lion. Friend, espeeially when they perceived how
idle Government were to mating reductions in the ex-
penditure to meet this diminution of Revenue, having
done nothing whatever to that end.
Lord PALNIERSTON looped the Honse wools) look
at the saving of n0,U004., which the Estimates for Ate
present year shrived over those of the last, under the
head of •Ptiblie Departments alone, before they decided
upon the degree of weight to he attached to the asser-
tions of the lion. Gentleman who spoke last, that tio-
vernment hail been idle, and had done nothing.
Mr. BENNETT declared that nothing could he more
wild than the statement of the Noble Lord. ItecAuse
no soldiers were wanted, the Noble Lord had called it a
reduction, not to maintain those which had been unne-
cessarily raised.
Mr. WILS4IN thought that when the House was
called on to give an opinion on certain points, those
points should he distinctly before the House. If the
lion. Member could point out any particular salaries
which were exorhitant. he for one would give them his
soport in seeing for their redaction.
Sir M. 1111H.F.1 said, that lion. Members were ant
called upon in honour ur honesty to vote for this pro-
position, bet in consistency with their vote for the re-
peal of the Mclt Tas. .
Mr. MIME said a few words in feply.
Mr. MONCK observed,' that a reduction in'the prise
of agricultural produce bad taken place to the amount
et 5 per rent. and that beistg the case, he should like to
know how the taxation of the'roontry sfaa to he rap-
port; of the expenditure vas itiOt proakaitiosed to the
. He should eertaoly support the motif* elf
Isis Hos. Friend (Mr. Hume), because be tisought it roe.
Wattle, to the held interest of the nation.
f:6l4incl TRENCH said, %, esrpeoce of the armor lek

, •
r

ienipPertnicmeiritni°llSTli,tnsoltntielinthhrsrta. ti"diansgnettreYslisk.."fteelt
a. the
of prices.
The House divided—
For the Anteuarneat - .gg
Against it - -
Majority . .
—I
The House then resolved itself into aCo issit!
Lord P.ILMERSTON theft
Prulweed a vote of i
105,945/. is. 1011. for the Staff.
ithproremgatrhde
Mr. HUME rose to object to the ainonnt of this
—W
to
.yeart the
7Ptalre:eunlit taolltolwaia:otchirisisititouriiitiolielistbi(f:yar-easts„.:
inander-in-Chief, lie could not hut consider it as, e
French war, in 1415, the pay of the Conin
Chief was only nine guineas a day. it was sowkil trek—.
Parliament, now that we were arrived at the telt'. P.-
tytoaelaillrf4i so!. of peace,
4esitinYtd..6 treoildheewgantnirnvitynei apply of
ing at to:
was
'watt:
ielcirirre:'" t 4-1
atte
the head of it. The next item to which he wiavy•
to direct the attention of the House, M*4l the char, f
the Secretary to the Commander in
of that Officer amounted to the enormous easel of 41 44;
per animus. No such office existed in rea ti • •
a ate the se
cretary hail now comparasierly little tn f
Lord Palmerston.)—ln the year 1792 the whole lieu' ?"1„.
of the army were sonslorted by the War Office, with th.—
al.i.rinre of the Commanding Officer, at as tool
6or 10,0011/., and the Secretary at War had 1(4 lee-p-
-than 14 or 15 clerks, instead of the array
tn whicher the
minte L:vredo "a
an kept.
ee at htheaQt nti4mrtee,:.alluaidetti:'hke:
whole expence of his establishment, which sow
ed to ior 6000/. a-year, disl not cost nun thee alejnt.
year. He thought the salary of the Secretary wile%
1 l'onsmander-iii-Chief might be re:lnced to Intik e.
which, wills his military ply, would he amply suthi.ie
for all the duties he had to perlorin. The nett item' wn:
the pay of the Chaplain, who united three offices, Col;
appeared to he Chaplain to the Commander-in-Chief,
l'haplain to the Forces, Chaplain in the Chaplain-
General. The salary of this individual would messily
admit of reduction, for it was clear that he could not
perform the duties of all these offices, unless he could
tie in three different places at one and the same thee.—
t hioeff.liti(llo e-‘1131,1:
'f he offices of the Deputy-Assistant Adjiitatit-lieueni,
and the 11eputy-Assistantfisiarter-Master-lieneralutigh,
he thought, he aalvaittagettully reduced. Some reds's-
tions had been made in the Staff in South Britain. He
believed four llajors-tieueral, four Aides-del;amp,mg
four Majors of Brigade had been reduced,
Noble Lord would look to the state of that depart
in 1793, lie would find that much greater redanisat
might be advantageously male. The neat item, which
was the pay of five permanent District Assistant
ter-MasterslleneraLadmitted of considerable redaction.
Indeed, those officers might, in his opinion, be allege.
ther dispensed with. With respect to the charge for tero
Inspectors of Army Clothiers, at 6938. the %elm/lea&
duties discharged by those Officers inielst be performed
by one In ipectur with a Cu 1111 l nitre of the officers Min
respective corps, and the expence consequently refined
one-half. The office of Chaplain-General was entirely
a new creation, and the gradual increase of his
in-
come slietted the diwosition of the Uoveremeet to
extravagant expenditure, notwithstanding_ al the
profesteions of the Honourable Gentlemen alesl4
!Then this Chaplain was first appointed, he a
salary of 36. W. a year. it was afterwards raised be. libel/.
then 150/. and soon till it now amounted to MU aye&
Now, he apprehended, that if 365/. a year was a sellidad
salary for this individual, when he was first appeistsi,
at a time when our military establishment was doable*
treble, what it was now, his preteut allowance emit
certainly admit of very considerable reduction. Asti
the fuer Chaplains of the forces, he was really et a*
to commies what duties these individuals well hem to
perforsn. The Staff in North Britain was iselllem tre-
ble what it was in former years. There was iSsemeste
and an Aid-de-Cansp in that departineet wholsad pre-
cisely the same duties to performs. ; nue of these ekes
might, therefore, be well dispensed with. He begged%
refer the Noble Lord on this part of the subject tittle
Reports of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry,
es Ida
had recnnimend the House to return assent risible
to the state in which this department existed m
With respect to the Staff of Ireland, he beggedrerig
the attention of the House to the misusing disp
Iwtweeu the Staff in England slid its Ireland. Tice Sulfa
Ireland, which in 170.2 cost only a few tlstrusaud passes
was now charged at 20,0011/. In one item there was a
charge for no less than seven Adjistants-Oeneral,alei
right Quarter-Masters-lieneral, with their Dere*
One-half of these, lie submitted, might be safely re-
duced. The Medical Staff in Ireland was mecisitZ
than in England, and was, besides, of a very p
description. If this Staff was to be kept up, it ea
just that it should he supplied by officers of the lie
dual Staff in England, who were now on half-pay-
With respect to the Foreign Staff, it sees nuesnessery
to particularise all the items; he would only Anew,
that the charge for this department, which in iris was
17,11011/., how amounted to upwards of 50,101/.
Isl The
whole charge for the Windward and Leeward mMe
was f 1,412/. in 1792, and was *tow 29,000/. lk rhos ht
it quite impossible to state a stronger fact thsa thik.
lllie had on a former occasion stated his oPini°"' pith
regard to Malta and the lonian Islands. The chino'
for these Islands a 00000 anted to 11,766/. and "/" two-
for
higher than was necessary. 'f Ise Boa. Member
then feel pitulated many of his 'statements, sad COD-
eludes' by moving, that the vote of 105,943/. be
reds
Ile KOMI/.
Lord PALNIER.STON said that the qoestioa
which he was at issue with the lion. Member M.'
rather a question of principle, than a question of
itM2s,
end contended that the military system of 1792. mil'
being a guide to direct their course, was Whets
beacon whirls they ought to avoid. (heat improveses*
dace that time had taken place in every pert of tee
military system ; and unless we were prepares' to finer
all the advantages which we derived from them 1...*
prevenient!, he knew not upon what principle.",
plainest of the moo* of the salary of the (":
of thneonosHoranobnierabtlieenttemmarr
hesedeiecop.
rept:leditio. The n
wander-in-Chief, but it should be recollected Ihei
sties
7
salary was raised to its present amount, by a reealats
assigning that rate of pay to all Field Marshals tri!
employed, so that this was not a personal grant to 1M
present Commander-in-Chief. The duties of the
.10,0_
twarystSeriaborertiaorynitonattinereLo:awarinhaandil.eri-niniCacth,iefbeeteneVic;
crossed by the rednction of s
tarmy, in consequeeet_!
the number of applications on pert of' officers eeali:'.`
to balf-pay. With regard to the salary of the k
lioneral, the clerical arraagements of the army had, _
so match improved since the appointment of agent rotor
ef character and respectability to of in that 11_,
city, that be was mirprised to hear the lloaultrahlrralil:
detnan object to the amoant of it. The Bono% 10.1.
Member complained that the Staff in Ireland
lived:see!
greater in proportion than the Staff in Eng .0!
the army in Ireland was mach more disresesl th.
Englank sad involved mere frequent marches 1..61_
fAertreenrt
lud.ets,:homtheerats;iseervstaad oweretimis.
clouted by opposing lb, Anseedusent.
Colonel DAV IRS wog or,* its 0,1°6°1 tn;;;;-.1
of the Commandersin-Cidef dash, be loweret
he agreed that throe set of the five Iliste.iet, te.'"a;
frequent inspes
lailiters-titoteral might he nudes-M. Ile lb° Ig"._!
therm wan so use in a Cenottesisder of the ism
the Noble Lord 111'
land, whilst (twee was .4 Vottimao4ter-in'i. l'hele,na—it
land. The Military ens -at St.

1° irti
MI
tal
•f
gui
,

TI Fa TITIESNIA I.
\ --
Taro noinion ittotild °prise to their dissdrantiige..4 M. MARTIN
ral called u
The ease of Itellinirliiiin, which had heel, referred to, pon h
did not support the Ar- g- • • ument attempted to he drawn present motle. .1
---1...... the trial iu that not allouril to pi