The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-03-11 00:00:00

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liens in the way, of such discussion, it was their wish
to afford every possible opportunity for abating the prin•
ciple of the
.plan. He wished the Noble Lord. to state
whether there had been any precedent for such a course
of prcieteding as he now recommended.
Loh' HlNti said that, during the last Session of
Parliament, when a measure of great importance hall
been brought before the Hotise of Cominons, the. Noble
Earl found out some way of bringing the same measure
(the state of Agriculture) before the ,consideration .•of
that Hoare. And iat this instance he conceived, it would
be almost as necessary to pursue a similar course.. He
therefore thdeght the noble Lord ought, in this in-
stehee, to put the *hole Ran in queition into an intel-
ligible shape as soon as possible. ,
Earl DARN LEY amid, that their Lordship; would
bare information of the plan in trestion by the prietiog
of the Bills before the House of .7oluctiona; end, in .the
report which the newspapers gave of the debates in that
House, they were in possession of an outline of tile ram-
stme but, as it was e great measure o national IMO*
imee,lae thought it ought to be brought fiii!tvar4 siond-
mneously before both houses. That °tight to have beep
the coursein any plira for the amellOradon of Ireletn.•
„Tip Kett) CHANCJILLQ4Lobserved tbatsbelfills in
it:;.estion tit((l4 4rever cal; befdrootheir
.Lord.shipsi or
oitiew.groretyifirefta; ead-rttlire ftienuld.he fligh7-!
ly irregular to ether into a dist:nation upon the measure.
Here the conversation dropped. .
The Bishop of *ELY presented .1 petition froM Ely
against the Insolvent Debtors' Act:-Adjourned.
•
HOU. PE OF .
, .
tie. HART DAYS O brought in a Hill for lighting
the eitynt Bria Col with oil gas.—Head a first time.
DBISTORS' ACT.
Sir CHARLES MORcIAN presented a petiticin from
the Merchants of Neerport, in the county of Monmetith„
'spinet the Insolvent Debtors' Act.
Mr. LIMETON, in support of the petition, hoped
that thelew officers of the Crown would comply with
ibe generally. expressed wish of the country, by repeal-
ing this,Art.
Sir CHARLES MORGANpresented a similarpetition
from the Ironmasters of the Tretlegar.
Mr. LAM B'f ON presented a similar petition. from
the town of Nrlington.
Mr..W. id. S. l" presented a similar petition from
the importers of chinaware of Drogheda.
Mr. LITTLETON presented a soldier petition from
Staffordshirs.—All ordered to lie upon the table. •

• IRISH CONTRIICTS.,
Mr.3AIITES GRATTAN moved for returns of *doer-
&Assents for contracts fur lighting and paving the city
'4lf Dublin, from 1607 to 1821.—Ordered.

cOAL lowliest
'Eh. EDWARD ENATCHBULL presented a petition
from Greenwich, in Kent, praying fora repeal of the Do-
ty on Coals.—Laid on the table.-
A petition from Macclesfield was presented, praying
the Wes" to pass an Art for establishing amore cheap
'andeittions mode of recovering small debts.--Refer-
.l-ed to t ConiAitfe4 •
• • • . HOP SUTICAL
air ZUW- KNATCGBULL presented a petition
•
lions certinn districts Kent, praylog a repeal of the
doles on. (fops. : .
After. some words in support ofthe petition from Mr:
CURTEIS, it Wei ordered to lie upon the table.

• • , DEER. DUTIES.
Mr. OUgliA4. presented a petition from the town of
Onngerfordorgainst do high price of beer.—Laid on the
table.

ELicitigs OP iacNnat. ' • • .
Mr. T. WILSON. premoted a petition [knit J. W. Par-
king, gm. complaining df an %Tadao return for Arundel.
—Ordered to be taken into consideration on the 17th of
April.
. .
Mr. HUME gave notice, that he would, to-morroir
(this-day,) move for returns of the amount of Land Tax
unrrdeeuied; and also of the Post Office retotns for
lrelaad.

;
'SMALL DEBTS.
Lord AGTHORPE said the Committee uPon.the Bill
for remitting Small Debts having no wish to interfere
With the separate jurisdictions of small Courts, had in-
structed Lim to move fur returns ufthe Number of Courts
for the Recovery of Debts now in practice, except those
in Westpipster Hall, together with the extent of their
jtirisdictiOns sod the authority by which they practised.—
Ordered. •
Sir, THC/MAS LETHBRIDGE presented a petition
from 4:4relpietable yeomen of Somerset, against certain
partisof thi General Turnpike Act.—Laid on the table.
Mr. LENNARD, presented a petition from the town
of Ipswich against the Insolvent Debtors' Act.
Mr. IJENNARD presented a petition from the town of
.Stone, in Suffolk; in favour of the Bill fur the recovery
of Small Debts.—Referred to the Committee.
Lord EBRING'PON presented a petition from the
town of Tavistock, against the Coal Duties. Laid on
the table..
Lord EBRINOTON preierited a petition from the
Doke of Bedford and others, against the Marriage Act
—Laid on the table.
Mr. ReSKlSSONPresinted a petition from the Select
Vestry of a parish, in Liverpool, praying the total repent
'of the,
_Windovi Tar. The Right lion. Gentleman said
be could hot itippOrt the prayer of the petition, as it was
•not in the contemplation of Ooverriment to grant a fur-
Viet remission of the taxes.—Laid on the table. .
. Sit JOHN NEWPORT brotightin s.Bill for regtilat.
inothe Amount of Papuans made by Grand Juries in
lrelancL--.4ead a first time. •
Sir JOHN NEWPORT otot-61 for Returns .of the
nuttiber of manufactured Articles exported from and im-
ported to Irelan,l; and their official value, for, the last
eleven yeu-s.-01(lered.
Mr. CURTEIS presented a petition from the Hop=
planters of the parish of Fatrlinei in Sasses, artilist the
Hop Duties.=.Laid on the table. • • .
•

Debtors' Act. He stated that if no other Hon. MeSieber'
would take the subject into his hands, he should feel it
his' duty to propose a measure fur changing this Aet.
He presented a petition from the same place for
peal of the Inhabitant Hooke Ditty.
Mr. RICARDO moved for an arconnt. of the number
of persons to whom a half year's dividend in the 31 per
cent: Cowls became due on the 25th January, &c,
which, after a few words from the Chancellor of the-Ex-
chequer, was ordered.,
Lord A. HAMILTON preiented a petition from the
Borotigh of Perth, against the present state of Scotch
Burghs.—Laid on the table. F.
Aunt ON COALS.
Lord A. HAMILTON presented a petition from the
Ship Owners of the Borough of Ayr, praying for a repeal
of the Duty on Coals. He wished to know if it was the
intention•of government to make any remission in the
Duty on Coals. •
,Thee CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
net his intention to propose soy such measure at present.
ORE'NFELL considered the duty on Coals carried
ettertwiso to be a most partial and harsh tax.
HUTCHINSON 'greed with the Hon. Gentle-.
my,n who had just spoken. wee his intention to prevent p
a petition to-morrow, complahrfnatot •
• Mr. BENNET exprmiked himsvff to"the same effect..-/ 7
Why not apply the Slaking fraud -rti such a way.as would
enable the Government to dispense with this tax I
Mr. Alderman,WOOD stated that the citizens of London
paid more for coals than the inhabitants of every other part
of,the country.
• Mr. M. W. RIDLEY said that the coal owners were any-
lots for the remission of the duty. It was a fact, that the
coal owner receives bat lbs. for that for which the con.-
surlier pays fOs. and 70s. and so in proportion for the in-
ferior roe.
Mr. IIITTLOFON said, that these duties existed for up-
wards of a'tentury. A great quantity of capital was in-
vested upon the faith of their continuance, which would.
be lost if the duties were removed. Rut coal carried coast-
wise was not the only coal biked. He objected to any sud-
den. remission of these duties.
Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE felt the justice of. what
was stated by his Hon. Friend who just sat down. He
looked forward to ...still further teduction of taxes, but he
confessed it wag not the coal trade that he considered to
require that remission most.
Mr. MARRYATT said, that the tag
.proied a source of
great hardship to the citizens of Londou. The sugar burn-
ers of the Hanse Towns had their coals at a much cheaper
rate. • • .
.Mr. CIRATTAN said, that the remission of the dutiei
wOuld.bg the greatest benefit to Irelend.
• The..patlttipo was ordered to be printed.
.‘,• MUM. •
The ffouse rtsolied Itself Into a Coninsittee on the Warr •
htming.Aets. .
Mr. WALLACE moved a Resolution, authorizing the
Chairman. to move for leave to tying in a Bill for :lore ef-
fectually aecuring.goods invested and lodged in warehouses;
wbieli being agreed to, the House resumed, and the Report
was brought up, .and laid on the table.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL brought in a gill for the
more effectually enabling his Majesty th dispose of property
to which he became entitled before his accession to •the
' Crown.
Read the first time, and ordered to be read the secend
time on Thu*. ay. ,
ARMY ISTIMATR%.
Lord t APERSTON moved that the geport_of tfie
ComplitteirOWliply.oti the Army Estimates be broight-

up.
M __ •
r. 10318.1ati•i that it was not his intention to pressl
any oppoartletwArtainst this Keport, as he considered that
the votes of the-horse respecting the amount of the mili-
tary force must, under present cireunpttances; be condi-
tional He wtonla content himself with recording his
opinion, that the expectations held out in the Speech of
his Majes'y on the opening of Parliament, when it stated
that the Estimates were framed on the most economical
principle, were not realized. The house would find that
in the three great branches of expenditure, the Army
Navy, and Ordnance, there was a difference between this
*ad last year amounting to no more than 114.115561. The
Army gstimates last year amounted to X6,103,068
This year

• Giving a difference of only . . . £15,670
A • antn which, in the proportion of .ix millions of ex
penditure, must be regarded as a very trifling one,.
deed. The lion. Gentleman concluded by moving,
"That it appeared that, in the Estimates for the Army
for the two years, 1822 and 1823, there was only a sav-
ing of 15,13701., and that such reductions did not autho-
expectatiens held out in his Majesty's Speech;
in whichlt was stated that the different Estimates were
framed upon the most economical principle."
Colonel DAVIES said that he withheld his opposition
to the ResolotiOns contained in the Report, soleiy be•satise
he considered that a war was inevitable, not only-between
France and Spain, but between England and France.
Sir IV. DE CRESPIGNY trusted that there was no
real foundation for -the anticipation that this country
would he involved in a war.
Lord PALMERSTON thought that the House ought
not to affirm the opinion embodied in the amendment of
the Hon. Member, until they had before them the esti-
mates of all the heads of service. Hitherto they bad
seen hut a p trt of thern, and lie was sure they would not
come to a decision, which applied to them generally, un-
til they. had .seen the whole. By a mistake in the first
print of the Estimates; the saving appeared to be less in
those of this year. The real difference iu favour of this
year was 18,0001. He had stated last year that he anti-
cipated that the Estimates this year would show an in-
crease of 50,00(11. But, instead of an increase, there
was an actual diminution. Adding then the 50,0001.,
which he had good reason to suppose would have been
the amount of the increase, to the actual decrease of
18,0001., the diminution would be r. ally 68,0001.
The amendment was then negatived without a division.
The Report was brought up.
Ott the first Resolution being read,'
Mr. G. BENNET said that he, too; would hare felt
it his duty to press his opposition to the extent of our
military establishment, but for the circumstances in which
this country was at present placed with respect to her
foreign relations. If the course of affairs should take a
turn, and that it was not likely we should he ciPed on
to take a psrt in any warlike operations, he should then
feel it incumbent on him to move for a considerable re-
duction of the military establishment.
Re•olution was read a second time, and agreed to.
On the Resolution for continuing the Recruiting Es-
tabhishinents for England and Ireland/
Colonel DAVIES re-stated his objections to the con-
tinuance of so large an establishuteut, particularly for
Ireland.
The Resolution was agreed to after a few words from
Mr. G. Berrsep and Lord PALMERSTON.
On the Resolution for a Grant to the Irish Staff being
tt
Pu •
Mr. HUME expressed his surprise at its present
amount, compared with its amount in 1702. The Staff
had increased in much greater proportion than the
army.
• Lord PALN.IERSTON said that the Staff of 1792 was
quite incompetent for the improved due of the army