The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-03-08 00:00:00

much more comprehensible. All felt that it was to a
diminution of the public burdens that they mustlook
for real substantial relief. At present, however, to pe-
tition Wig useless, fur the Noble Marquess sat there
r-adv to overturn all the hopes of the sufferers. No re-
lief could he hoped for but from n Reform in that house.
The plan brought for a aril for the relief of Agriculture
would not suffice. He could wish the Noble Marquess
and some of his colleagues would do him (Mr. Coke)
the bailout to accompany him to Mark lane, to witness
the ridicule with which-his plan was treated there.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY did not else for
the purpose of discussing the question of Parliamentary
Reform. lle had hoped to see him at present in a
better temper of mind. He did not think the Hon.
Gentleman had a right to complain of not being able
to make head or tail of his plan, as he had been of late
occnpied with subjects of much greater interest. Had
he been less occupied he might have beard some good
reasons for adopting that plan which Government hail
brought forward in preference to that which the lion.
Gentleman would recommend. The Gentlemen of
Mark-lane understood their interestbetter than to sup-
pose the price of corn would rise through what was
called a Parliamentiry Reform, if public credit were
not maintained. Were taxes taken off beyond what
could be spared without injury to public credit, Mark-
lane would he the first to cry out, and to feel that it
must suffer from a violation of national faith. All the
interests of the country were happily so boned up toge-
ther, that one could not be injured without prejudice to
the rest. The motion for a Parliamentary Reform
might have been unanimously carried at a county meet-
ing, but without speaking disrespectfully of such meet-
ings, he must object to its being supposed that it embo-
died all the deliberate gentlemen of the county.
Mr. bi.Donat.n and Mr. LINNARD rose at the same
time. The latter Gentleman was named by the SPRAYER,
but several voices called out the name of, the former.
Mr. LENNARD begged to offer a few words, notwith-
Wetting the opposition made by the Hon. Member for
Eiturhain.
Mr. LAM ETON begged pardon of the Speaker, bat
really did not understand that. the Hon. Gentleman had
any right to allude personally to him.
Mr. LENNARD remarked the Hon. Gentleman hail
called out another name when lie (Mr. Leeward) rose to
speak.
TheSPEA KER said nothing was more common, when
mere than one Membee rose at the same moment, than
for Member.' to call out the different names. This was
not intended to mark disrespect; it was to be supposed
that each called out the name of the person he had first
seen on his lees.
Mr. LENNARD bad alluded to the Hon. Member for
Durham, conceiving him to be out of order. He then
proceeded to speak at some length on the contents of the
petitions. The petitioners repelled the idea that any
part of their distress sprung from over-production, and
were satisfied that they could obtain no relief but by a
reduction of taxes; and lie argued that a reduction
of taxes was the most desirable measure that could be

adopted.
Mr. M•DONALD said, the admirably well timed Plea-
santry of the Noble Marquess on the occasion of the
presentation of this most melancholy petition, might be
very satisfactory to his own mind, bat he must allow
hint to say, that it would not be very satisfactory to
those who were attending to the progress of their deli-
berations out of doors. The Noble Marquess might
taunt his Hon. Friend, the Member for Norfolk, on his
domestic affairs, but his Hon. Friend held a place in the
esteem and affections of his constituents and the coun-
try, which the Noble Marquess might envy, but could
not claim to share. Most unlike himself would Isis Hon.
Friend have acted if any addition to his owe datitestic
comfort and happiness could make him forget the lis-
t of those for whonehe Lad never ceased to iota.-
rest himself, or alter his sentiments with respect to the
cause of them. He (Mr. APDonald) bad not beard the
whole of the speech of the Hon. Member for Suffolk, is
conteqnence-of the
.petition having been brought for-
ward before the time at which poblie business was
usually entered tivon. He regretted this knowing some-
thing of the county. and knowing that Lis lion. Friend
had something to explain respecting himself. He wished
to hear 1 • , and Phould have been happy to congratu-
late him on his having done justice to his constituents,
and completely vindicated himself. Rat it should seem
that in that House there was something like a spell set
on gentlemen, which Made them very different when 1
they came there from what they appeared to be else-
where. He had spoken of the meetiug as haying been
very respectably attended. Speaking thus, he bad
hot described it as a mere parish meeting might be de-
steed-ell ; but the fact was, a meeting more remarkable
for a•tendanee of persons of importance in die neigh-
bourhood and for numbers had never been held in the
precincts of that county. From 6to 8,000 persons had
keen present. The Hon. Member had said, the Requi-
sition had been carried about for six weeks for signa-
tures.
Mr. GOOCH said he Lad described the Requisition to
bare here sent round for signatnres, and to have been
cerefoly concealed from those whose political sentiments
differed front the politics of the gentlemen by whom it
was drawn up. It was the Petition of which he had
spoken in the terms jest attributed to him by the Hon.
Member. -
Mr. MACDONALD resumed. It was unfortunately
on of the circumstances of the present times that an
opinion prevailed it was all but useless to petition that
Louse. The farmer in conseqnence, in many cases,
would not go a hundred yards from bis own dwelling
foe the purpose of joining in a petition. In the county
of Cambridge, but the other day, a Resolution bad been
come to, declaring that it io vain to Petition Podia-
meat. The reds that op the country were not
known to spring from any • tation of Provi-
dence, and therefore it was nntaralap z while that they
bad their origin in political misnasbagement. Rat these
petitioners, it ought to be borne in mind, bad never
claimed to be relieved at the expense of any other bless
of their fellow-subjects. That which they called for was
an unsparing, uncompromising. severe system of re-
trenchment it the public expenditure, and a proportion
ate reduction of taxation. The petition attributed the
evil to the right cause, and declared the remedy-could
only be found in a reformed Hone of Commons, which
would supply a more eMeloot cheek I. the improvident*
of the Ooverrutent. The Ho*. Member for Suffolk
(Mr. Gooch) had seemed to think with the majority of
the late Meeting. His professions of a determination to
call for retrenchment—his declarations in farotir of eco-
nomy had tilled the market place; but haring retired
from the Meeting, he had soon returned to his old habits
again. He did not know whether it was from being
Battered by the Noble Marquess, or some of his Col-
leagues, with the title of " the leading Country Heade-
mon," or from any other cause, that when lie got into
that House, he had at once heat induced to catch at the
shilling compromise of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and close the door, as far as depended Ape him. against
all. farther retrenchment. On the debate on the Salt
Tax, that abominable impost, the Hon. Heideman, with
another Hon. Member who had indulged in similar pro-
fissions, might be said to have perpetuated that cruel,
undefended, and indefensible Tee. When be used the
words " the leading Calory Gentleman," he begged
not to be understood as speaking disparagingly of that
chararer. But if the Country Gentlemen in that house
deviated from the course they were formerly accustomed
to pursue, to become on envy occasion subservient to
the views of the Goeernmest, sects conduct must even-
tually lead to the annihilation of all their importance.

lIEs./.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, the reorder of the fa-
mous anti-depreciation Resolutions, had come down to
that House three years ago with certain Resnlntions
claratery of the importance of establishing a clear Sinking
Fend of five millions. That a surplus ineome applicable
to the reduction of the National Debt, was desirable, he
would adpiit ; but what bad been the cond'uct of the Right
Hon. Gentleman.? tie, who had destroyed the Sinking
Fund of Mr. Pitt—whose name he had ever been ready
to glorify, had come down to the house with the resole-
tions to which he lied adverted, after givlpg his sanction
to a measure which could not fail of adding to the pub-
lic burthens what was equal to ten or twelve millions.
He alluded to the resumption of cash payments. What
did the Hon. Member for Suffolk do on that occasion?
When the Agricultural Horse Tax came before the house
he did not remember that be had differed from the ma-
jority of the house, hut he had some slight recollection
that the Hon, Member had made use of a homely, good,
country-gentlemanlike phrase, that they could have
no more of a cat than her skin." Now the Holt. Gentle-
man caught at the shilling on malt as the one, thing
needful, as the only thing necessary. He wished him
to look to the various sources of expense—to the state of
the Civil List, to the salaries given, the pensions granted
—and doing this, be had no doubt that he would find it
was impossible for a willing Government, besides giving
up the malt tax, to give up the duty on salt: aye, and
even the leather, and soap, and candle duties also. But
the Hon. Gentleman believed that Ministers could not do
this. Why did he believe it? Because they told him
so. le the same way they bad formerly told hint that
they could not go on without the Property Tax. This,
however, had been given up, as he believed it was found'
that the country could not go on with it. Then it was
said that they could not do without sena, Leeds of the
Admiralty; but the house the other night had verOthee-
remoniouslv taken away two of them, and now it was
seen that Ministers were preparing to go on with five.
So, if the House chose to make similar reductions in
other establishments, it would be found that Ministers
would still be able to carry on the Government of the
country; and those attached to them need not feel the
slightest alarm from an Idea that they would give up
their places. He begged pardon for troubling the house
so long. It was also more agreeable tohim to bear what
others said titan to speak himself ; but on the present
occasion he thought it necessary to state what he bad
offered to the house. The.present evils be traced to that
fatal measure, the Bank Restriction Act of 1797. The
remedy lig iihich the house must fix its eye was that
which would meet the evil, by increased consumption
and demand. it was their bounden duty to keep faith
with the public creditor, and to place our finances in
snch a situation that the debt should be ditninisbed ra-
ther than increased ; but public credit be would • con-
tend would not be secured by prolonging a state of
things which threatened serious disturbances from the
disposition to insubordination produced by distress on
the part of the people.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY would be sorry
to bare expressed himself unsuitably on the subject be-
fore the house, or to have treated the Hon. Member for
Norfolk with any disrespect. Ile bad thought the Hon.
Gentleman bad made a good-linesonred attack, on that
plan which he had brought forward. It would have
been difficult for him to answer seriously, without going
into a wide field of argument, and he had therefore
eddied to repel the attack with the MOO good Immo
in which it had been made, while briefly stating wby be
could not concur in the view taken of this subject by the
Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. GOOCH said, aftm the number of chores 'MeV
bad...been preferred against him, he hoped be might be-*
lowed to make some reply.
The SPEAKER remarked, tbe

man wished to move that it 'Weld be

don now was. that

meted t•
deviate

speak at any length on that qoa
snake such a motion, the boom
from the usual course, mid permit him to,#ply.
Mr. GOOCH said he would move thA the Petition
should be printed.
The Petttlowcwhish sposspiained sfMartfelliran die-
tress, prayed for a reduction of Taxes, and Pesliainentary
Reform, was, ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. 600 CH rose to move that it should be printed.
Charges bad been preferred against him, as, if be bad
committed some great political crime. He had been
spoken of as if he had pledged himself to vote for the re-
peals of particular taxes. He had done no such thing.
1 He bad said that he was as anxious as his Hon. Friend
could be to vote for the repeal of all taxes that could be
taken off consistent_ with the public safety and good
faith to the public creditor. The Honourable Member
said he bad brought this petition forward earlier than
the usual hoar for public business. While he was absent
that day, his name had been called over by the Speaker.
On his entering the house it was called over a whoa
time, and then he presented the petition realer sooner
than he should otherwise have done. h was said that
the people of England were convinced of the necessity of
an immediate Reform of that house. He believed the
people were misled oat of doors, and induced to take up
this opinion but the opinion of the commuoity at large
was widely different. It was asked who would now pe-
tition that house, and it was said the farmer would
hardly go a hundred yards for that purpoie. Yet in the
same breath they were told how numerously the late
meeting had been attended—eight thousand persons
having been present. For his general conduct in Par.
Bement, he had only to say, be wanted no instruction
from the lion. Gentleman. So long as the people of
Suffolk were pleased to send him to that house, no.
shackled, as they had hitherto sent him, he would pee,
form his duty. The Hon. Member for Norfolk bad talked
of the pleasing measures of the Noble Marquess, as If
these led those who voted with Ministers to lair mid*
their judgment. This reminded him of a foolish it
cident which had occurred a few days ago. lie happened
to be shooting with a gamekeeper a few days back, who
bad a dog with him which suddenly broke away and
pursued a hare. This was a great fault, as every Gentle.
man who went shooting well knew: lut-thogamekeeper.
however, found it excusable, remarking, " Why you
know, Sir, a hare is the most enticing vermin in the
world except a woman."—(A laugh.)—He supposed the
Hon. Gentleman would be inclined to add, " and ex-
cept the Noble Marquess and the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer."— (Laughter.)
The Petition was ordered to be printed.
A message from the Lords announced their Lordships'
assent to the Irish Population Bill.
POST OITICE.

- -
Mr. HUME rose to move for returns from the Post-
r office of England. The House were already aware, he
said, of the great expense of that establishment as com-
pared with what it had been in 179'2. He expected that
a great redaction would be made lOW department.—
Ile was glad to find that the Noble Plan/nn' had alrea-
dy given notice of a motion on that Subject. He was
glad to have an opportuity of expressing his sentiments
with regard to the Post-office; the regulations in that
department were more complete than loamy other office;
the lodisidual at the head of it deserved every thing
which his situation gave him s oohing, whatever cold
be imputed to him in the performance */ hii duty. The i
alteration which be mos most staxionsrle erect was with
regard to the postage of newspapers. In great Britalo
they were free, but they could 1•1 be sent to the coins'',
without considerakkpexpence; sl.sx. for a daily; 4/.44.
fur a three-day, and 21. is. for s weekly paper. The
money so received was not brought into the public re-
venue, but the clerks in the oar, at Sherbotirne-lane
were paid with it. Ile had it+ o objections to that system :

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