The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-06-08 00:00:00

TUE STATESMAN.

newel the grand purposes of patronage. though
every English boner had a right to be satisfied of
the expediency of this enormous yearly expenilitere
ie profound peen. The Ordnance no one, it was
tree, had objected to, it being onetime, to our large
Army. They had laid rather heavy bands nn the
•Nery, as these officers were not is well skilled iu
slipping its end eat of place, or a levee, to suit
ethers' humours, as the military, who bed been so
well schooled In those tactics, from the contem-
plation of the practice in Continental Courts.—
Whilst the Noble Lord talked of his having
tranquillised Estop*, he should at length condo.
steed to show some of the beneficial effects of this
tranquillizing system, by rel reecho...it in our colonial
expenditure, in thitherto of collecting the Rennes,
and by a discreet liJation of offices. Then two
Lords of the Admiralty he was, end so was all Eng-
land, satisfied were as necessary as. third Archbishop.
—(A laugh.)—A nuttiest for reducing the Secretaries
of State had been dismissed with ridicule, althea/1h he
was sere the country would sustain en loss in re.
deciag them totes. Little too was to be den now
with comptrolling the Beard for India Affairs. Here
was a field of retrewchmeet, sod at the Horse-guards,
be was sure, there was Now so ow in profound
peace for a Secretary at VVer. He was fond of
liberality ire office, of luxury too in living, bet knew
that neither be nor the magnify could afford
either. But a strong Administration it was said
could tint be fanned with such narrow
From the highest to the lowest in Acintioistrelion, re'
trencLmeot was necessary, as no Ministry would ever
be strong in public confidence without this spirit. The
ohject of the Right Hon. Gentleman was to become
complete master of the finance of the country. to
which he bad an invincible objection. Without Par-
lianteetary restraint there could be en gearanin for
, economy ; and whatever concessions is rainier of re-
trenchment. made by Goveinatent, was always coo.
fined to trifles, and wrested from them by forte. He
even thought the late war. so /listlessly terminend,
might have been conducted as successfully at half the
owns. As site propositioos contained in the two
lest Resolutions were ill calculated for the tensity
of the public credit, end pecalierly *Olin to the
stock-holder, he should stove the previous question
oe these Resolutions.
The inestion being put,
Lod CAS CLIEREAG II said, theßt. Hon. Gentle.
man bad left the question to he decided upon three
diitinct grounds. The first uhliously was, whether,
soder the present circumstances, the country were
called oe to make en offott of this vigorous nature.
The second, what should he the event of that effort;
mid the third consideration was, the propriety of
making this effect et the present moment. The Right
Ilneourable Gentleman had admitted he was not
easiest the principle of the sacrifice, bet had con.
templates' it as probable. and bad condemned the
conduct of Goverment es fendameutslly wrong.
lie felt he never mold obtain that Right lion. Gen-
tletes..'s confidence, his hostility wet directed against
eke existence of the ptesent Cabinet, which, if any
thing was to be taken front votes of that Hone,
had lately had the honour of bong powerfully sop.
peeled by a most decided majority as to the propriety
of Its measures sod the rectitude of its intentions.
Ho denied most distinctly the charge of want of eco.
cooly. But it was certainly very unfair, when all
the miner sebjetle of financial arrangements had
been before the Hoes., to attack the whole as de-
(Wive end profess by a sweeping denunciation,
while be bad never attempted to impeach any of
there estimates iu replicate detail to the Hone.
Government, though It was said upon a former
occasion that there would he ue necessity swan
for the Committee of Fitiance, did not nine
to put out of their view the considetatiou of ff.
trenchment. It was their intention to charge them-
selves in a felon Session with the source of economy
alluded to by the Right 114110. Geetlemae, that of
drawbacks and bounties. Ile had a right to cons.
plain of some observations thrown out by the Right
Hen. Gentleman with respect to the ReSOll/11011* Its
they affected the public credit of the country. Toe
greeter part of his speech bad a tendency to produce
an impression that the messuies proposed tended to
a breech of faith with the public creditor. Nothing
would be more gresudiess. No more was intended
to be done than what wee perfectly ellowable, end
provided for, if circumstances should require it, by
the clause introduced by Mr. Fox into the Sinking
Fond Bill. It was strange that the Right Hoe. Gent.
should be epposed so strenuously in the application
of the Sinking Fend to the public service. A repeal.
tin to that purpose was brought forward the other
night by the Hon. Gentleman on the third bench
(Mr. Grenfell), sod now when his plan saes to be
acted open le a certain measure, It was attempted to
excite alarm, as if it led to s breach of faith with the
Public. At the same time that this attempt was made
the Right Hoe. Geotleinae admitted that the Siuking
Fend Act wee sot one which should always, and
ender all circumstances be strictly adhered ta.—
There must,sed in the progress of time there would so
doubt neer, a period whets it would be necessary
to vegan the effects of its accumulation from gong
so far as would be injurious to the Public Creditor.
Hie Majesty's Goverment felt convinced that a
change was necessary. if the House did not think
them worthy of confidence. they owed it to their ow.
character as the Representatives or a grist oaten, as
the geardians of the public interest, to apply to the
Throne for the removal of Ministers. It was the be•
siting of the House to choose between the Gonne.
ment and the measures proposed by them for hieing
existing difficulties in such a way as they judged moat
expedient. The country was col io such a state as k
rootht to be in. It was their duty now to decide,
whether the measures proposed were such as wield
effect this desirable object. Allusions were made to
opinions ~pressed by him (Lord Castlereogl.) in the
early part of lest Session. Ile was not disposed to
retract soy of them, though neither ashamed nor
ausilling to acknowledge an woe whit con-
rineed of it. lie then said, that 2,000,000 or
2,500,0e01. was likely to be the surplus of the Sink-
ing Fund, and cooleuded that the notary was in a
state of grow ing prosperity. The Hoestwoold perceive
that be was borne out iu this assertion. if they recol-
lected the able evideuce given by an lion. Member be-
hind him. Ile did not deny that there might be a
redaction is norm of expenditure not yet esamiiied.
bat even Woe, it might be tittied to the await of

tigoo.ocim. metaled by the Right Hoe. Gentleman
IMr. Tierney), that was no grated for rejecting the
resent proposition. He did net support the prepo-
sition of his Right Honourable Friend (the Chas-
cello, of the Eschew') as a favour to the stock.
holders, bet as a hewn to the country.—(flear!)—
It was necessary that they Wield have a clear sur-
plus for extinguishing the debt, not less thea five
millions. That sum would, doting peace, go on re-
'dicing it progreisively in such a ratio as would eat.
able them to meet the difficulties of war Owe it
should arise. The Right Ilonourahle Gentleman
(Mr. Tierney) thought fleet en addition of three
millions, after the sem proposed to be taken from
the Sinking Fend, was ioadeqsato for this purpose.
IN soy man ewer dream of keeping !hat fund at
fifteen millions, operating continently for the reduc-
tion of debt ? When arrived at that amount it was
the duty of the Peblic to reduce it.—ln discus'.
ing the propositions 'Omitted to their consideration,
it ought to be taken into the account that the Congo.
Belated Fund was at present in a petition in which it
never stood before. Were it left is that situation,
then iodated the Right Ilan. Gentleman (Mr. T.)
might raise a (levities as to breach of faith with the
Public. His Right Hon. Friend (Chancellor of the
Exchequer) would not hove done his duly if be did
net propose an oddities of three millions of tale, to
reinforce it. There was got now, as formerly, any
seeplas in the Consolidated Feed adequate to the
public service. There was am edditional heathen of
4 300,0001. throw!' open it in consequence of the
onion of the Eichequer of Ireland with that of Eng-
laud. Row were these chianti:ifs to be met unless
ley name such plan as that proposed? Though he
felt himself called upon to contend that live mil-
lions was the least at which the Stoking Fund
rhould stand at present, he did not mean to
say that it was to continue thus confined. The
plan now proposed would have no tendency to
paella& the So eking Feud from going on in Its
°potations. Ole the mousey, it would approaletate
the time when the sem of eight millions might be ap-
s lied to that purpose, and when, ill the mot of war,
the country might be placed in a siteatioe, with re.
spect to its debt, to enable it to meet the difficulties
attendant open such ass event. If it should occur at
goestai—if the honour of the country was attacked,
or it became necessary to maintain its interests @Oast
• foreign enemy, the world knew, from former rape.
dente, that not legs than SO millions could be added
to the revenue of the country by a single vote of the
House; they knew, that however averse people may
be to an Income Tax, however anxious to get rid of
it its time of peace, still they would have wisdom
end spirit enough to restore it when imperi-
ously called fur by circumstiseres. Thee had a proof
of this after Beeaparte's retain from Elbe, whoa it
did not cost so mock time is was •spended in the
debate of that night to place again its the bands of
Government that greet and powerful enure* of
strength, the Property Tat. The Right Rote. Gent.
(Mr. Tirane)) himself keel., whatever went of con-
fidence he may feel in Ministers, that the country
taunt.' not I•esitato to grant it again if necessary.
One hundred awl fifty oh d pounds a
year might be calculated epee as the saving from
the army, end other seeress. Though the revenge,
&Treated occasioually, its natural tendency was to
improve, and the period he hoped was ens far
tent ekes they might busk to a ardoclion of she rote
of interim.. If by the toluene@ of a large sem
losing into the market this could he effected, it
would be bailed as a certain oaten of prauperity.—
When Ilse, considered how rapid was the operation
of
the Sinking land of 1792, tie natural conclusion
was, that its effect mast be proposaionsbly water
sow, when that fend *mild amount to five sillies%
Not long back the country bore, without repining,
land without any great apparent diminution of coos-
fort, IS 800,0001. writ in lines than at Newel.—
It enteral not be supposed that they would be each.
' Hog now to gnat three millions, is addition to
the esistine Reverse, for the purpose of meet.
leg the ditlicullies that pressed epos them.---
When the affairs ofthe Rankled to an examinatiee of
their whole system of Finance, aed the existing diffi-
culties twit perceived, he felt convinced that the pre-
sent Session should not be pissed °ter leaving these
difficullies untouched. 114 d Ministers done so, they
would meet the nest Parliament with merited re.
roach. The country should be made acquainted
sigh its financill circumstances, that the Reese may
provide the best means for improvement, end not
leave it to be debated at dells and parochial meet-
ings. flow mach better was it to sahmit these im.
portant matters to the good sense, the wisdom, and
firmness ef the Hesse ? The Right Ilan. Gentleman
himself (Mr. Tierney), though he may not feel con.
it fence in Ministers, bad too much charity to wish
that they should continue in such a Sileltine us.
tit neat %eagles. If he understood the Right 110.
namable Goodman (Mr. Tierney) rightly, he bad
no
objection to lay on 10 millions additional taxes, in
place of three millions. The only diffetence between
them was, that he (Mr. 'l'.) would put off the liar.
calm labelers to a (ewe period, while they wove
disposed to complete them at present, wheal (greens-
stauces rendered It necessary. His Right lion.
Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not
put the issue of his proposition epee any particular
(as. The thing proposed was to what moment it
should be granted. Ile saw no time more favourable
for imposing it than now, sod felt no doubt that the
House would, by their decision,show a confidence is
Government, sot less marked nor decisive, upon the
present, those it was upon a former occasion, whew
the question was whether the Gentlemen at hi', or
at the other side, should possess the confidence of
the Crown.

Mr. BROUGHAM aid, that the Noble Lola
(Castlereagh) had pet Ibis greet end important goes.
lion upon 11 fair and intelligible issue. The trestion
seas this, ought they to most • Resolution, the
pismire of which was, that three millions of addi.
Lionel sages should, under omitting ircunastsistes, be
raised frees the People—neght they to motels a pro.
position !Of funding three milliens additional re.
reset, to be taken from the pockets of the People
and.given to Ministers for the public set vice. It
might or might not be possible, when the t.erind
came, to pliably thew in entertaining such a propesi.
lieu, bet were they now in • condition to ',flint
tech a 'vie? Were there not Iffelst measure" to
*high they Pere their Mcliou that i ut an 'lie

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which gaol froop ye Wets led by IM observe.
iprc,
dons of the Noble , bet v no' hear tie etch
of his Right Hoe. eine( (NI N.Ti.rnel ). Th. No.
ble Lord inferred that his RV!, lion. Friend wool!
have no objection In rain the 'saes if he and his
Friends were entrusted with the Governmont• lb,
weloW upped to all who nerd his Right lien. Friend.
whether there was any thee( in his word., in his
arguments, or the analogy of hit areu.e,.ts, that
could warrant such se leftrence 1 Ile said, the time
might strive, not that it did arrive, is hen nee inn
would be a fair subject ter conelderatios. This ob-
servation he ands espressly for the purpose of
guarding himself against the imputation of within
to recite a cleaner against all new tater, soder any
circeenstssices; of wishing to oohed, the Bonn of
the country to the deliberation of lettnchial clubs mad
proniel legisletiso. When the People by a mouth, •
I entice of pesos bed recovered from the effects of
war, when men's berthens were in some &vie rem
fined, wheel their capital was accumulated in thee
own bench, when trade and commerce were in le
lloorishing condition, when the People bad soh ed
that repose, that jest and necessary repo.' chick
they earned by their *offerings, by their patina
eider those sufferings, bet awe of all by th.ar coon
taut faith end teamovenle attachment to the Conti.
tales in the midst of difficulties; under nth de.
mentances there otiAlit be a time (or proposing a new
las 7, bet that limy was not now witted. The Noble
Lind (Castlereagh) bad 111, grimed for saying that his
Right Hoe. Friend objected to the proposed tax on
thegroond that it was tint ten millions in place of three.
Ms Right Ilunocrablo Friend did not complain that
pert of the Stoking Fend was taken for the public
service. Ile compfained that three millions of tales
were to be raised for the purpose of making that fend
in millions. As to in Consolidated Fund, his
Right llosi. rand was not ignorant of the intestine
in which it stood. Ile had long ago urge' the no
entity of making provision for its deficiency. Neither
did he attempt to rein any clamour against the pre.
pnsei measure as if it weal to a breach of faith with
the public creditor. His argument wet, that they
did net act op to the faith pledged to the public ere.
dint, if the Sinking Fond was reduced from lb
milliuos. Hoe stood the Cifellentlinapip with coved
le this Fend ?—1 n 1786.11 amounted to one sillies,
and an addition of 200,0004. was made soon after.
In 1792, it wee i el by so mach of each Inn,
as gave a nee that at the and of 43 years such
loan would be to:pained by the gradual operation of
the Sinking Food. This pledge continued to 1802,
when new arrangements were made by Lord Sid-
month that did not men pee:wine the teen of pay.
sent. The nowise' of 1813 no to accelerate the
liquidation of thedebt,towargethe close of the period
pledged for that purpose, and the Fund was then re-
dated to MIIOO.OOOI. million instead of 21 millings, to
which It bed secessulated. 'flit fondled/ler was then
told that repayment would go on et an accelerated
rate from a certain term, and now came the plan by
which all this was bid adieu to, and the &liken
Fend reduced to five millions. Did net Mi. Menthe
public creditor on a different foods*? And was it
not to all intents and purposes, a breach of faith ?-o.
He did not however, object to it, because under pr..
sent circumstance., it was idable to t.ke part
of the Sinking Fend for the service of the country,—
They must pay the army, the navy, the lailges, Etc. It
was not of this breathe( faith he compleitied,bet of the
breach of faith with the People's proposing new toles.
The agricultural sod commercial distress of no
country were so generally admitted, that it would
be enlist to trouble the (louse with any chaervetinee
on the subject. It was admitted In the Reports pre.
stinted to the Hone, and by the Right lionoorebn
Centimes opposite, the Cheirsao of the Bank.
Committee. The precise degree le which the retina
to Cash Payments would affect prices was a most ditio
cult problem. Soma ten cesfinntly, 'ship opinion,
took en themselves testate, what that effect would be,
and that it would mount only to the difference ben
linen the Mint and market prices of gold. Thy son-
sequence of the long suspension of Cash Payments at the
Bank, was, that nearly the whole currency of the
country was changed to paper ; the 'vault of which
was a high rise in the price of all manufactures ..f the
country, which enabled the lent manufacturing class
to meet the heavy burdens of motion which the exi-
gencies of the times demanded. The noses of peace,
the short resumption of Cash Payments, and the
altered state of Europe, had the effect of considerably
lowering those prices, and it necessarily followed, us
was agreed on all hands, that as the price of mass.
factures and produce must fall on the 'stern of peace
and Cash Parents, the rates of labour, end rent,
mulatto fall. Some commodities had risen not only
twenty, but fin times 20 per cent., which had sine
fallen to their old standard. As I necessary Cllll9O.
'pence, all elms of pay's% additional lazes most
fail ; and was this a moment for his Majesty's Mimi.
stem to choose for hnposism three millions of sew
tales upon the county ? How widely dial this meet
sure differ from the Wonted Inky of the Chancellor
of the I:echelon, when be talked of his eatteme re-
luctance in continuing the Income Tat epos a con.
try so severely bsrthened already ? Rot of that Tat
bineldom spoken( late, unless to sing its dirge, sod to
lament the loss of so ponds' a source of bounce.—
Ile would ask the Noble Lord, whether Ministers
bail performed their repeated promises to the reentry
of rettencliment in all enuecessary eapenditeue?
Whether they had done so in the collection of the
It sal Wes it net tree, that in one real branch
of tiv Revenue, neaten, the Beard of Excise, (her
Sad rejected a proposition In effecting a greet Ming
In the country ! Ws% it sot true, that the Board of
Excise, of otiose conduct he could not speak with
too meth sN:lauso, loci effered to collect the other
rt WNW! of the country at five and 4 fraction per
rent. ir.to d i f 13 and a (fat. ilen, the rate at which
it sera ruse collectini? This was no, branch of his
Height Hon. Friet.tra (Mr. Tierney'!) Budget of Rea.
IfenClifnent. by *bin a suing of half a million per
annum might be effected fin the enentry. There was
another system also not new tone MO: 11..nouratile
Gentleness opposite, against which More was string
ground for complaint ; sod olds was the collecliou ed
a very considerable portinn of the revenue, foe •hiali
the Collecting Officers were paid fly a rate of l'*"d"
age, by which nee, of ;Narcoses were fond le
nary par: of the weeny to itocreate the iffilemata at