The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-05-08 00:00:00

THE STATESMitN,

said it was because he wanted to make out a panel on ac-
count of the approaching trial of the rioters—has known
Roman Catholics to be on the panels of preceding years.

By Mr. BRIGHT.—He did not know that there were
any Orangemen in the panel. Ido not know that there
w.is one who was favourahlz: to dressing the statue.

The witness was ordered to withdraw—.

Colonel BARRY now said he was going to call
some of the Grand Jury, and he hoped,noquestions would
be put to them which would compromise their oath of
secrecy.
Mr. IYETHERELL contended that this House bad a
right to disperse with the oath, when it was necessary to
further the ends of justice.
Mr. R. SMITH said it had been decided in a Court of
law, that a Grand Juror's oath did not bind him to secre-
sy before a higher tribunal.
Mr. WYNNE said lie agreed with the Honourable
and Learned Member (Mr. Wetherell,) as to the power
of the House; hut as there was much difference of opi-
nion on the subject, he wished the question to receive
more consideration before the House came to a decision.
Mr. HURST said, secrecy being imposed on Grand
Jurors for the sake of justice, in a case like this, where
the administration of justice required its dispensation,
it ought to he dispensed with.
Mr. GOULBC RN did not deny the power of the
(louse to inquire, but sound discretion should prompt
them up to use it cautiously. It was after all a matter of
conscience with the witness whether this House could ab-
solve him. _

Mr. BANK BS—Let ns postpone the question of ge-
neral right, and deride the propriety of each question
upon its own merits; we will then protect the witness
against commiting Itim.elf, and give no opinion upon a
matter so delicate.
Colonel BARRY—We should never arrive at the troth
thus. Better at once to state to the witnesses through
the Chairman, that as Brand Jurors they are released
from their oath of secresv.
Mr. tiOULBURN—fhe statute which regulates
Grand Juries in Ireland, makes it incumbent on Jurors
to state openly in Court, and prosecute persons for any
perjury which they may commit before them. This
House, therefore, has a right t, call upon them to speak
at its bar, but it is another quest' whether it he sound
discretion to exercise it. The House may regulate the
legal ril,,rtof an oath ; but can they satisfy the consciences
of intlitiduals ?

Mr. A BERCROMBY said, the regulations for the
guidance of Isrand Juries had been framed for the public
benefit. Such bring the case, and this inquiry being also
for the public benefit, and the House being competent to
protect the witness from any consequences that might
follow, lie was of opinion that the proposed examination
should forthwith be proceeded with.
Sir J. NEWPOIt l' said a case had occurred many
years before the passing of the statute to which refer-
ence had been made, in which it hod been held that un-
der similar circumstances the oath of a Grand Juror was
not valid.

Mr. RICARDO did not see bow that House could ab-
solve a man from an obligation existing between him and
his Maker. To him this appeared a most preposterous
proposilon.
Mr. RENNET thought after receiving evidence as
they had done against the (hand Jury, they would not
do justice, if they did not allow the Members of the
Grand Jury to be examined, who were the only per-
sons that could answer what had been stated to their
prejudice.
Mr. SYKES moved that the ne,ct witness on this list,
not being a Wood Juror, should be called in.
After some further remarks from Colonel BARRY,
Mr. GRATTAN, the CHAIRMAN, Mr. Wst. SMITH, Mr.
S. Rice, and My. R. SMITH, an understanding was come
to that for the present the examinatiou of another wit-
ness should be proceeded with, and John Jackson was
called.

_.___.
It was reported to the Committee that John Jackson
could not be found. Afrz
Colonel BARRY complained of the non-attendance
of witnesses.

The CHAIRMAN said it had been understood the
Grand Jurymen would be first examined, and it was
therefore hardly to be expected that the other witnesses
would remain all the time in the Lobby.
Mr. AISERCROMBY thought a room close to the
House ought to to provided for the witnesses, so that
they would always be forthcoming.
The CHAIRMAN said he would endeavour to make
some arrangement for the purpose.
Thomas Sibtliorpe was then called.
Mr. A BERCROMBY, as some difficulty had arisen
with respect to the examination of a Grand Juror, and as
it was supposed that this examination then might inter-
fere with his oath elsewhere, thought that it would be
desirable to put the witness to the bar, that lie might be
asked a question, in order that on his declining to an-
swer, they might go to the House with a substantive
difficulty for its decision. If such a course were not
taken they would find themselves to-morrow in precisely
the same situation which they stood in to-day.
Sir George Whitmore was then called in, and examined
by Cul. BARRY.
Witness had been Foreman of the Grand Jury; he bad
a general recollection of what had passed there relative
to an information preferred against certain persons con-
cerned in a riot on the 14th December ; witness was not
an Orangeman, did not consider himself a man of very
strong party feelings, he wished fur general concilia-
tion, and desired to see Irishmen at peace with one an-
other. Ile bad been applied to by Mr. Sheriff Thorpe
to be Foreman of the Grand Jury about three weeks be-
fore the riot. He had never seen a set of Gentlemen in
his life more anxious to do their duty to the public than
were the Grand Jurors over whom he had presided. He
saw no symptoms of party feelings among them. If he
had be should have thought it his duty to check them.
He had heard a report that Mr. Sherift Thorpe had said
that he had got an Orange panel. He had heard that a
man of the name of Thomas had been before the Privy
Council, and there made affidavit to this conversation.
Witness in consequence waited on Mr. Sheriff Thorpe
to ask him if lie had used the language imputed to him,
at the same time telling him that if he had need the
language imputed to him, at the same time telling hint
that if be had he must find another Foreman for he (wit-
ness) would not go on. Mr. Sheriff Thorpe upon this
declared upon his honour that lie bad never said any
thing of the kind.
Mr. JONES—Are you a Member bf the Amicable So-
ciety in Dublin ?—Yes.
What are the principles of that Society ?—Loyalty to
the King and Constitution.
Are there many Members of Orange Lodges also Mem-
bers of that Society ?—1 do not know that there are. .

Are there any Catholic Members ?-1 do not know
an y.
00 you think the Glorious and Immortal Memory?—
Yes.

_
What are the rules ?-1 really do not know ; I have
been a very short time a Member.
The witness, in answer to various other questions,
stated that he was not acquainted with the Hardwiekee.
He had been at Sheriff Thorpe's dinner and drank " the
glorious and immortal memory ;" that toast bad been
drank as long as be could recollect at all Corporation din.
Hers; he did not know that it was calculated to promote
conciliation. Mr. Sheriff Thorpe made a speech at this
dinner ; witness did not bear any part of it.
On this point the witness underwent a long cross-exa-
mination by Mr. BROUOHAM.—The room he said was
very large, and the noise great ; and he was not near the
Sheriff, and be could not bear any thing said either by

dent.

the Sheriff or by the Lord Mayor, but he read them the
next morning in the papers. He really could not tell
whetheillthe Sheriff stood, when he spoke, on the floor or'
the chair, or the table, bat he supposed on the fluor, be-
cause Sheriffs generally stood on the floor.
In a er to questions by Mr. PLUNKETT, witness
said t thought the interference of the Government
to prev the dressing of the statue, not judicious, and
that it was very proper for any one who thought so had
a right to express his opinion to that effect, and that it
was not fair to punish anyone merely for expressing ap-
probation or disapprobation, by clapping or hissing at a
theatre.

In answer to questions by Mr. BROUGHAM, as to
the mode of forming the Grand Jury, he stated that it
was usual for one of the Sheriffs (taking for this pur-
pose quarter and quarter about) to select the Grand Jury
from the great panel, and to submit the list to the other
Sheriff for his approbation, and then to send it back to
the Sub-Sheriff to be engrossed. This lie said was the
usual practice, but being questioned as to his means of
knowing the usual practice, he stated that he had of his
own knowledge known nothing of the Sheriff's office but
during the time that he served as Sheriff; that in that
time about 14 Grand Juries were summoned. In half of
that number of times he had chosen the Jury in the
manner stated, with the exception of once or twice,
when the Sob-Sheriff brought him the list which he had
approved of. How his colleague proceeded in the other
seven cases he did not know.

In answer to questions by other Members, he said he
had never served on a mote respectable Jury than that
of January last. He was one of those who wished to
see the drtaiing of the statue discontinued. He had
heard that formerly the Lord Mayor, and even the Lord
Lieutenant, used to ride round the statue of King Wil-
liam and the garrison of Dublin to parade about it on
the 4th of November. So the honours paid to the Mo-
narch hail declined. He did not know how long this
practice had been discontinued. He had never attempted
to prevent the dressing of the statue.
Mr. Thomas Twycross was next called, and examined
in chief by Colonel BARRY.
He stated that he was a jeweller and goldsmith in
Dublin, and had represented the Goldsmiths' Guild in
the Common Council. He was a native of England. He
was a Member of the Grand Jury in January last. He
was not an Orangeman. He should be very happy to see
Catholic Emancipation carried, if it could be lone with
propriety—(a laugh ;) he meant, by " propriety," if it
could be accompanied with securities against inroads on
our Cons itution in Church and State. In his opinion it
was the uish of the Grand Jury to do justice by a patient
investigation.
The witness then withdrew.

The next witness called was Joseph Henry Moor, who
stated, that be was a stock-broker, and agent to an In-
surance Office. He was one of the Grand Jury, and took
notes on that occasion, as well as others of the Grand
Jury, and neither was nor ever had been connected with
any Orange Institution. He did not see that any person
was brow-beat, or forced out of the room, while giving
his evidence. In all there were 27 witnesses examined be-
fore the Grand Jury.
Mr. JONES asked the witness whether the Grand
Jury did not prevent one individual from giving his
evidence because he did not know the name of a per-
son engaged in the riot, thoughle had learned it af-
terwards? _ _

The witness answered, that that was a secret which he
was bound by his oath, as a Juryman, not to disclose.
A discussion then arose as to whether the House had a
power to absolve Jurymen from such an obligation for
the furtherance of justice.
Mr. SPItINU RICE objected to the impropriety of
proceeding with the examination of witnesses who could
not be cross-examined to the fullest extent.

Mr. UOULBURN thought it was a question which
ought to be reserved for decision, and snggested that
the evidence which it involved should be struck out.

Mr. BROUGHAM concurred in thinking that the
point was one which ought to be refused, but objected to
the striking out of the evidence. lie concluded With
moving that the Chairman should report progress and
ask for leave to sit again.
After some further observations from Mr. Abercrom-
by, Sir J. Newport, Mr. lVetherell, Mr. V. Fitzgerald,
and Mr. Courtenav, the House having resumed, the
Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit
again to-morrow.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock this
morning.

ANNIVERSARY MEETING OF THE BIBLE

SOCIETY.

Yesterday the Anniversary Meeting of the Bible Society
was held at the great Hall of the Freemasons' Tavern,
which was filled in every part, even to the galleries, soon
after the doors were opened, and numbers were unable to
obtain admission.
Lord TEIGNMOUTII in the Chair.

The Report, which was extremely voluminous, was
read by the Secretary. He announced the death of their
late Secretary, Mr. John Owen, to whose memory he
paid a tribute,. in which the meeting expressed their con-
currence by the manner in which they received the intelli-
gence. The number of the copies of the Scriptures cir-
culated this year exceeded that of any former year; and
made the total circulated by this Society alone, since its
commencement, more than three millions of copies. It
also represented the Society to be still flourishing in every
quarter of the world, and had spread its agents and
increased its supporters in India, Russia, and America.
Lord BEXWORTII seconded the motion, that the Report
be received. . .

_ .._...__.
Lord HARROWRY was received with much applause.
—He moved the thanks of the meeting to their Pre-

The Bishop of GLOUCESTER seconded the motion in an
able enlogium on the exertions and conduct of the Noble
Chairman. . . .

-----
Lord TEIGNMOUTII returned thanks.

The Secretary from the Russian Bible Society returned
thanks in the name of their fellow-labourers in Russia,
and informed the meeting that they had circulated the
Scriptures amongst Cossacks and Tartars of various na-
tions ; amongst even the Chinese. and to the confines of
that vast empire. They bad printed in the last year
MOO copies of the Scriptures at St. Petersburg, and
this year would print MAW more.
Lord CALTHORPR, Sir C. GRANT, and several other
distinguished persons addressed the fleeting; after which,
the Resolutions were unanimously agreed to, and the
Meeting separated.

Tea ARAM—It is understood that an order will short-
ly be issued, directing the abolition of the Prussian col-
lar, which new prevails throughout the army, and the
re-adoetion of the collar in use anterior to the substitu-
tion of the Prussian collar.
. .

The 2d di►ision of the 72d Regiment of Infantry, em-
barked on the 3d inst. at Woolwich, on board the Loyal
Briton transport. for Jersey.
The Sth Hussars, after its arrival at Chatham, will
be ordered to proceed to Ipswich, and the Depot of that
corps, now stationed at Maidstone, will be ordered to
juin the Regiment on its march to its destination.
The 17th Lancers, on its arrival In England from India,
will be ordered to disembark at Gravesend. The future
station of the Regiment has not yet been notified.
Rendezvous houses have been opened on Tower-hill, for
the reception of able and ordinary seamen, for I I ships of
[ the line, 4 frigates, 6 sloops of war, and 2 cutters.

n

J,(!

A

J 141 - .41
GRAND ENTER' NMENir AT THE erANSIOA-
HOtiSE.

Yesterday, the entertainment which was postponed
from Easter Monday, in consequence of the extensive re.
pairs in that building, took place. The Egyptian Hall
was most superbly rated up for the occasion, hut the num.
ber of tickets issued for the dinner having considerably
exceeded what is usual, two of the spacious apartments
on the same floor were appropriated to the reception of
the later guests. The arrangements made by the Com-
mittee were, however, such as to prevent any lone cont.
nued confusion in the course of the arrivalof a (natl.r
party consisting of nearly WO individuals. The compa-
ny experienced in the change of the drawing room,
which has been transferred from the second to the filet
floor, a very great convenience. The Lord Mayor. in
the course of the morning, received an apology from ;:is
Royal Highness the Duke of Clarence. who was pr.-
vented from honouring the entertainment with his pr,.
Bence hy illness. The Duke of York sat on the right
of the Lord Mayor; next to his Royal Highness Bas
Prince Leopold.
Amongst the company at the upper table, we observed
the following distinguished persons:
The Earl of Harrowby, the Earl of Westmorland, the
Duke of Wellington, the Earl Bathurst, the Earl of Li-
verpool, Lord G. C. H. Somerset, Lord Viscount Sid.
mouth, the Earl of Caledon, Mr. Secretary Canning,tho
Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Secretary Peel, and
Mr. Ifuskiason.

Foreign Ministers.—Count Lodolph (Sicily) M. de
Sarmento, (Portugal) Admiral Jabot. (Spain) the Duke
de San Lorenzo, the Count de Cetto (Bavaria) the
Count de Mundelstoh (Wurtemberg) Baron Langsdorf,
(Baden )
On the side opposite to that at which the Lord Mayor,
the Duke of York, and his Majesty's Ministers sat, we
observed Lord Erskine, the Marchioness of Salisbury,
the Marquess Camden, Lord Prudhoe, Lord Grantlry,
Lord Chief Justice Abbott, Lord and Lady Cranbuurne,
the Bishop of Oxford, Lord Ber.sford, Lord Viscount
Exmouth. the Attorney General, the Solicitor Geseral,the
Bishop of Chester, the Bishop of Salisbury, Lord Milton,
the Dike of Argvle, Lord Colchester' Lord Torrington,
Lord Archibald Hamilton, Lord IV. llentinek, the Bi-
shop of Bangor, Lord Eastnor, the Duke d'Alberg, Mr.
Sergeant Leos, Mrs. and Miss Fisher, and Mrs. and Miss
Majentlie.
At the long tables sat the alUdertnen and their Ladies;
Sir Astley Cooper, Doctor Raabe. Sir H. Belford, Sir
Thomas Lawrence, Sir • W. Beechy, Sir Humphrey Davy,
Admiral Sir J. Beresford, the Chairman of the East lu-
dia Company, the Deputy Governor of the Bank of En-
gland, S:r J. and Lady Nichol, the High Sheriff of Sur-
rey, Lord F. Conyngham, Lord R. -Manners, General
White, and the Lurd Provost of Glasgow.
There were also present, Sir J. Sinclair, the Right Ho.
nourable T. Wallace, Sir T. Clarke, R. Martin, Esq.
M.P.,T. Wilson, Esq. M.P., D. Gilbert, Esq. M.P., John
Clementson, Esq. Joseph Hume, Esq. my , W. Holmes,
Esq. M.P., R. Wilmot, Esq. M.P., U. Dundas, Esq. M.P,
P. Grenfell, Esq. M.P 0. tiartopp, Esq. M.P., W. Man.
ning, Esq. M.P., J. Grattan, Esq. M.P., J. MsDunald,
Esq. M.P., S. Lushington, Esq. Berries,
M.P., Sir James Urahatu, M.P., C. Arbuthnot, Esq.
MP., R. Gladstone, Esq. M.P., G. Byng, Esq. M.P.
Whitbread, Esq. J. Smith, Esq. M.P., W. LaLib,
Esq. M.P., Mansfield Esq. M.P.,Mr. Planta, Mr. Hal-
dimand, Mr. Pearce, &c. &c. Sic.

The health of " The King," " The Duke of York and
the Army," and " The Duke of Clarence and the
Navy," and " The health of the other branches of the
Royal Family," having been given with the greatest
applause,
The Duke of YORK rose to propose " The health of
the Lord Mayor," which was drunk with the usual testi-
monies of approbation.
The LORD MAYOR, in returning thanks, said, that
when lie took upon him the office, he had promised to
maintain the hospitality and splendour which ought to
be expected from the Chief Ilagistrate of inch a City.
lie trusted he had succeeded in doing so; no exertions
bad, he assured the company, been spared, upon lOs
pert, to render his Mayoralty deserving of their appro-
bation.

The health of " the La.ly Mayoress," was then drank.
and

The LORD MAYOR returned thanks for her Ladyship.
and said, that it had been her anxious wish to render
the house agreeable, not only to those who came on A.
vial business, but to the Members of the Corporation
;.• general, and all who bad a claim on Civic hospi-
tality.
The health of "the Earl of Ilarroiv " next follow.
ed ; after which, the health of " the Karl of Westmor-
land," " the Earl of Liverpool," and the rest of " his
Majesty's Ministers" wete drank.
The LORD MAYOR, in proposing those healths, said,
that since be bad sat in Parliament, he had supported
the measures of Ministers, because he believed they
were directed towards the prosperity of the country.. -
To their measures the country owed the preservation of
peace.
The Earl of Ilannow DT, in returning thanks, assured
the company, that whatever might be the effect of their
measures, their object was the prosperity of the country
as well as the honour of the City of London, over which
the Lord Mayor so worthily presided.
The health of " the Duke of Argyle, and the rest of
the Nobility who had honoured the City with their pre-
sence," was then drank—after which,
The LORD MAYOR proposed " the health of the Doke
of Wellington, to whuse prowess in arms it was owing
that the country was in its preseut state of safety."
The Duke of WELLINGTON, in returning thanks, said
that the manner in which the compliment had been paid
him convinced him of its sincerity. It was particularly
gratifying to hint to receive the thanks of the citizens
of London in the presence of a member of the Royal
Family, and of some of the Ministers under whose di-
rections he acted against the enemies of his country.
After several other healths were drank, the hour for
the reception of the evening party arrived, and the (Ha-
uer party rose.
The rooms were soon crowded, and the dancing COM•
menced at half-past ten. The ball was opened by the
daughter of Sir C. Hunter and the Bavarian Minister,
and all was delightful to a late hour.

Lord Byron is said to have otlerid not only his for-
tune, but ibis personal service, to the Greek Government,
expressing his rehdiness to leave Italy fur their head-
quarters on the first intimation.
The Queen of Sweden, who we believe has not yet
visited Sweden, is about to set out for Stockholm, in or-
der to be present at the celebration of her son's marriage
with the Princess of Leuetenberg.
A badge worn by the partisans of the French aggres-
sion on Spain, and newly brought front Paris, was pre.
duced on 'Change yesterday. It is a piece of narrow rib.
hand, obviously of French manufacture, the colour yel.
low, and has the words Viva el Rey absolsito y silts Is
loquisicion inscribed on it. ' These badges, it is under-
stood, are worn openly in Paris.
AN IRISH TENANT.—An English Gentlemen, wlys
was lately on a visit in Ireland, in the course of his nit.
bling, went into a miserable cottage, or rather bowl,
in which he :uund a poor woman in a state of severe ill-
ness, with no companion but a ptg. lie condoled with
her on her sulfering, and thinking that the unmusical
noises of her grunting friend must be extr lir• ly annoy-
, ing to her in such a condition, offered to remote
" Faith you'd better let the pig alone." said the arms"
" be has more right to be were than I bare, fur he ms
the rem."