The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-02-16 00:00:00

-vieners of tiseAllioelratfentl tell *Mb I
t same period."
Mr. RO 'WARD, ateiervibg thatißie
Honourable Gentleman had divided the eibjFdof
iris motion its bir notice under two heal, maid
relating to the Admiralty, the other to the Bar.'
tacks, .said, that of course it could not be cx.
peeled that he could speak to the latter part. As
to what had been said by the Honourable Mcm.
bee relative to the ease of Mr. Butt, he must be
allowed to say, that he misrepresented the ease it.
kV, as much as he bad done what he (Mr. Ward)
had communicated to him on that subject since
his coming to the House that day. The Honour.
able Member had represented him as having said,
that the practice he denounced, the sale of Mikes,
was not an abuse. Now, he had never said so,
Lr was he of that opinion. Ile had asked for the
ate of• the case respecting Mr. Butt, because he
lima never before heard of it. He supposed it, how-
ever, to live been a ceseof the'sille of .auoffice.
Such a case; he knew, was an abuse; but, Ville
practice %sea sanctioned by long usage, it, could
not justly have been considered criminal in those
CONCerlit'd in it. The Noble Person *hose name
Lad loam mentioned by the Honourable Gentle.
man could, he was cottonseed, harp no objection
to the. fullest investigation .of every transacfinn
which took place during his official service. But
before the House should sanction such an in.
glary, it was bowel to see that good grounds
were laid for it. What Vas the fact'? In
Mee, a Committee was appOinted to inquire
into the extent and propriety of fees. Lord
Barham, who was thee at the head of the I\l'Vy
Board, and the otbdr Cominissioners of that
Board, were examined before the Committee, and
fairly and openly stated that their salaries were
grade op in part of gratuities and fees received in
consequence of the practice alluded to. The Re-1
putt of the Committee declared that the practice
was a bed ene, but not that the exercise of it was
an obese to any of those who had been concerned
bit. The words of the Report were, 44 that the
practice of receiving gratuities on the appointment
of clerks was bad, though it had been sanctioned
by tong usage." In ten years after, in the year
1706, the practice was abolished, and in cense-
qnstoe the salary of the Comptroller was raised
from 6001. nominally to 15001. and an addi-
tion of 2001. given to the other Commissioners.
As to what had been 'said by the' Honourable
Gentleman, with respect to the promotion of a
junior over senior clerks, as he had' not stated
.17 specific case, nor' charged* the practice as
eh% been founded in corruption or undue
itrives, the House, he was persuaded, would not
think this an In to be entertained, 'to the
fried detriment or public business, and the mis.
htnevous embariassmeneof 'the public offices. The
Sitkiud /Tart Officeltio which 'the Hon. Gentle.
:bee had alluded, 'no longer existed. It was in-
twrporated with the Transport Office, aid this
thane' had given rise to arrengentents. highlrad.
*antelopes to the public service. If tlte Hon.
Vensber 'charged the pension *bleb tied beee.
Bto Sir W. Gibbon, on the stippre'ssioto of
ard to which he had belonged; as eh instance
f corruption, he must go on to charge the beneficial
derangement* which followed the suppression of
filet oilier, as a corrupt transaction. The pension
was grantedepon the
_i same pribetple as governed
*eery Similar case' Ilputt all these grOnnifs, he
ehould vote ageinst Ai molten, so.tae as ihe Navy
boa rd Was con tented.
Mr. WILBERFORCE hoped that. the Hon.
tentkmin would withdraw Isis opposition to the
motion, hecause, as the question had been brought
fbrward in that House, it would be much more '
reputable fur the Noble Person alluded to, that a
full and thorough investigation of the case should
teke place. As the friend of that-Noble Lord,
he wished that the Inquiry should Wimea; and
Aminl be sorry that any proceeding in that House
timid prevent the question from being placed in
the clearest possible light. 'He could state of his
own knowledge, that all the arrangements for Re-
form which had been adopted subsequently to the
Report of 17844.1nd been introduced at the ex.
peers desire of Lord Barham. In short, that
Person, then Sir W. Middleton at the
time cemented to• remain in office only on the
condition that these Reforms should be carriedinto
etftce. Ile, therefore, in justice to a Noble Per-
im who had done' such service, Wished the oppo-
sition to the motion to be withdrawn.
Mr. NOEL concurred whith his Hon. Friend
who had jest sat down ; and, as ase relative of
the Noble Person alluded tO, was Iconvinced that
nothing could be more satisfactory 4til•'his Noble
Relative, than that the mono:, shotild be agreed
to. Nothing, he was *seeded, could place the
character of that Noble. Person in. a higher light
with the public than the fullest inqdlry into the
whole of his official conduct.
Sir FRANCIS BUil,Dirr thought the ,
•
,
necessity for granting the Papers was ammo('
from what had fallen from the Honourable Gen,,,
ilea= over the way (Mr. Ward). That llonour.u,
eble Gentleman allowed that the practice was an
abuse in itselft though it might be sanctioned by
long usage. He had never understood that 'any
usage could give sanction to an abuse ; and ccr.
tainly in the ease of Lord Macclesfield, though
- the length of usage was not disputed, it did not
avail for his defence. What his Huth Friend had
complained of was, that in the year 1703 or.
1704, the fact he alluded to had occurred so long
after the practice had been cundesnned in the report
d 1780. This case ought to he inquired into.
Mr. WARD and Sir F. BURDETT mutually,
explained. .
Mr. ROSE bore testimony to the hononrahle
stied and pure principles of Lord•Berham, but
thought the jewelry proposed unnecessary.
Ur. WARDLE replied, that it was not to the
aighorlikr Willie* Gibbons he had alluded, but
dd.Mlmmilatyrof maid tided and health,
areseleat frees office *4th his full
',MN a salary of 10001: had been
• *saes. lie Cad not enbrepresent.
!isy.lblak4l•oAlaatimesaa (Mr. Ward). Ho hail
, • opt millt Asa la dm 4= • was usual when
Wet loPelw iry..lided 7 ht understood
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