The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-05-06 00:00:00

THE STATES (A\.

.Judges declared with reipeet to other droits also. Of
the Judges. however, Lord Coke mentior.ed that Mr.
Justice I rawley had some doubts upon ths.puint, for.
after first admitting the doctrine, he said that the royal
fish were not droits of the Crown, because they were
too moan to belong to the King as Costal of the seas.
The sturgeon and the whale, in his opinion, steer a!)
too small for the use of the Sovereign. But had the
worthy Justice lived in our time, and witnessed the
millions of reyenue which arise from the Ji,posal of
whales, his argument would have totally failed. He
si..ishe,!, however, not to be misunderstood. He ad-
mitted, that as the law at present stood, a great alt. ra-
tion had been made in the arrangement of the revenue.
He need not say that now the Crown had ma long r to
defend from piratical invasions the seas out of tie re-
venues carried into his possessions by virtue el. his
droits. No : all those condition upon wh:cii the
droits were first conferred ulon the Sovereign were
taken away step by step from the Cron Ti, and each
expence alienated from it. Yet it happened, that
one of these reve:me!, granted especially fir the
defence of the country, and as the Act of Henry
the Eighth had it. `• for the tuition and gt,..od govern-
ment of the country," was still continued, although
the service had not been performed. This, then, was
the beginning, the middle, and end of his argument.
But he meant not too strictly and literally to follow
this subject; it was ',Pert the height of injcstice, par-
ticularly in cases between the Crown anti-the people,
to fellow too severe a line of policy. It was one of
those cases where the greatest injustice too often arose
from the strictest adherence to justice. Prudence and
discretion, and a regard for the security ant the State,
often required that, where a balance has been struck in 11
rermge times, it ought nut to Le disturbed, because
learning and ingenuity might discover that it should
Lot hire been struck at all. For this principle he
would ever profess the utmost reverence. If argu-
ments acre necessary upon the subject, lie should say,
that reasoning and analogy, by which they should be
governed upon this occasion, should be sought fur in
the dealings of the people with s...nie other great cur-
petition ; and if he could show that between this
Public and the Mirth Estaiilishinent some tangible
analogy might he traced, he trusted they a :mid give
it their maturest consideration. It was well known
that tithes were not originally the roperty of the
church for ecclesiastical purposes only, for they were
then burthened with provision fur the pour, and e.a it
parson was bound to maintain the poor. He degrees.
it was found that the provision left at the disposal ofj
the clergy was incompetent to the maintenance of the
poor, particularly after the violence of Henry VIII. had i
deprived the clergy of their great resources. It w s'
therefore not deemed proper that the law of tithes
should be literally acted upon, anal in process of time
Cie claim which the public had upon the church to
support the poor was abandoned. Here then was the
analogy. Originally tithes were burthened with
provision for the pour; so the droits of the Crown
were charged with the expenses of keeping the
teas clear. Step by step, during time reigns of
Mary, Elizabeth, James, exc.—fur it was wrung to
suppose that the measure was the effect of one
Act—a bargain was effected between the laity and the
clergy, that the former should support the pour. Let
then the analogy be continued : let the revenue be
discontinued, since the charge to defray which revenue
was granted had been taken up elsewhere, and let a
composition be concluded. How this composition was
to be paid—what was to regulate its anaount—whether
or not it should be more or less in time of war than
in peace, were points upon which he did not intend
then to trouble the House. lie wished only to have
the general proposition countenanced by the House,
that some arrangement was necessary. It was natural
to believe that all who considered the subject of the
Civil List, must at once see that nothing could be
worse for the intelligibility of the subject, for the dig-
nity of the Crown itself, and for the comfort of all
whose business it is to entertain the matter, than the
whole manner of the arrangement of the Civil List,
as it at present stood. Suppose any person, not ac-
quainted with the usinutise of finance, were asked how
much money the King of England had ? it would be
a difficult thing for him to tell ; it would he difficult
for some of the most experienced Members of that
House to tell it, even after a full half hour's computa-
tion. You GAO tell the amount of the provision for
the Frenash King—for the President of the United
States of America, and a Dutch Stadtholder ; you can
at once declare for all, except a King of England.
And the consequence was, that the arrangement for
him was the subject of daily blunders; and in its
Gothic obscurity and consequent mismanagement, be-
came injurious to the dignity of the Crown. When
Paine wrote his book, he complained that the King of
England was the most expensive magistrate to be
found in Europe ; because, said he, the country paid
about ten or twelve hundred thousand a-year for
governing the kingdom. " I could final," said he,
with his usual coarseness, " an able-bodied man that
would do the business for five hundred pounds a-
year !"---(A laugh.)—The serious part of the matter
was this, that not one man in a million was able to
contradict the gross misrepresentation or to expose the
error of the writer. And why not ? Suppose a person
were to tell Paine, or an advocate of his, that he was
greatly mistaken in his statement, fur that the King
enjoyed no such sum as ten or twelve hundred thou-
sand a year. " How do you know ?" the advocate
would say ; " because," says the other, " the Civil
List is not for his own use, for out of it he has to pay
his great Officers of State, Judges," Ste. " Well,
then. tell us how much fur each." It was impossible
fur the antagonist to go any further; be could not tell,
almost, unless he were a Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and even then the thing was extremely doubtful ; at
least he (Mr. Brougham) knew some Chancellors of
the Exchequer that would find it difficult to tell.—(A
laugh.)—But the misfortune was, that this saute !
mystery was kept up through all the Civil List Acts,'
op to the present time. The title to these Acts usually I
contained the words " for the better support of the I
honour and dignity of the Crown." Now, would any t
man believe, that out of sums thus apparently placed'
at the disposal of the bloaarcli, sums of money were
to be paid as salaries to the great &Hikers of the
State, so Judges, Zsc.. Even in the Resolution of the :
Chancellor of the Exchequer on the table occurred
the same vague and inapplicable language. The

Hun. lieutlenme (Mr. Brougham) a' a friend to the
dignity of the Crown. would boldly demand, was this
fur play to the Monarch T.Wu it fair to the dignity
of the Crown, to min uprth the provision for the
maintenance of the 'pietism of the Kingly Office the
salaries of Judges, salaries for other officers, both
great and small—incidental charges, occasional pay-
meats, charges for arrears, he., and allowances which
it would be beneath the dignity of the subject to name.
' Was it fair to the dignity of the Crown, that these ac-
counts should be confounded with its own provision?
Or was it more becoming that these accounts should
be separated? Pal not every private mar. anxi-
ous to have it in his power to gain at any true
a knowledge of the state of his property—his profit
and loss,, libour to keep his accounts separately fur
that purpose? But this was riot the advice of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. " No ;" the Right
Hon. Gentleman would say, " avoid this perspicuous
arrangeutent--junible all the accounts together, hut do
not separate them on any account!" The consequence
would be, that the person, whenever be wished to as-
certain the relations of his *maws with each other,
would be obliged to employ some able aceountant to
unravel them. Hut then it was said that the dignity
of the Crown required all this confusion and mystery.
Even suppose so—a little regard fur popularity, for in-
telligibility, demanded that this gothic disguise should
be thrown aside. And with respect to the diguio of
the Crown, did it really tend to that object to embarrass
the sources of its provision.—did, really. this eonfu-
sion du more for the honour of the King, than fur
his Pa:las/met, to say, " lour Majesty shall be
paid cheerfu:ly, handsomely, and liberally, by a
grant from the Consolidated Fund. amply suffi-
cient for all the purposes of your situation." But
" No," ea's! the Chancellor of the Exchequer, this
shall nut take place—the allowance to the Monarch
requires to be in a state of confusion—his dignity can
tolerate nothing short of mystery." But then, in this
prying age, people will tarn their attention to an in-
vestigation of those matters for themselves; and by
so doing will lied out, unhappily, that the Ms narrh of
this country, to whose dignity and honour the sacrifice
of arrangement and perspicuity in his accounts had
been deemed necessary, did not disdain to have a
part of his revenue made up by a tax of one penny in
the gallon ui on ale, and one halfpenny in the gallon
upon whiskey. Yes; the Monarchs of former times
did not per. ive any degradation in exchanging, for a
settled revenue derived by these humble means, the
gaudy and more unsettle.' profits of their predecessors :I
those gems of feudal splendour, in which so much of
their honour was bliagined to consist, and of which
they most have been so tenacious. Nor were our an-
cestors able to distinguish any danger to the dignity
and respect of the Crown, in this commutation.— I
(Hear, hear!)—He held in his hand the Report of the !
Committee on the Civil List, the coufitsiou of which
was only to hr outdone by that of the Cita List itself.
In this he found, that the provision fur some of the
branches of the Royal Family was charged partly on
the Civil List, and partly on the Consolidated Fund.
In fact, his Majesty had recently been recommended
to accept 100,i'00/. a year from the Consolidated Fund,
instead of the Civil List.—(lt was here intimated that ,
this recu 1111 l initiation was given up.)—At all events, it
was emoseh for him to knew that thcrecosamendatiost
was niade by a Courtnittee, who thought it not unwise
to have it carried into effect. The House, indeed, was I
not aware ef the company his Majesty was forced to
keep. He was obliged to associa•e himself with per- I
sons with whom a comarou Herman Ba would be
ashamed to he seen. In page 61, of the iippetailix to
the Report in the 7th class, the first item which met
his eye was the Vicar of the Tower, a great officer of
State, stipp,,rted in his dignified station at a salary of
1/. I3s. sd. a year. The office was not very expensive,
and, indeed, he ought to be rec mended, as a most
useful example of economy. This Functionary of State,
this Vicar of the 'lower, this dignitary of the Civil List,
7th class, for the classes rose upon each other in dig-
nity—notwithstanding all his distinctions, stood his
afflicted country in no larger a sum than If. I3s. bd.
Next came the minister of St. Botolph's„ and, as he
descended, appeared those snore useful, more indus-
trious, and nu less eminently distinguished officers oil
State, namely, the churchwardens of St. John the
Baptist, at salaries of IL 3s. and 51. each. Then CAI/10 /
the schoolmaster of Southwark--in short the ark it-
self contained nothing like the variety of the seventh
class.—(Loud laughiug.)—Here were specimens of
every description of human beings—clergy, laity,
gents, and nobles. Nor were they always sorted to-
gether in pairs as in the ark—but four or five of the
same species were combined together; sometimes,
perhaps, fur the sake of variety, there was but one of
the same kind. The Universities appeared eunspicu-
ons in the seventh class. There were Regius Profes-
sors in abundance, Corporations, a Mayor, Minister of
the Savoy, h.c. But nut satisfied with these terrestrial
objects, they must also include celestial ones. There
was the Astronomer Royal, at a salary of M. 10s.;
the Master of Christ', Hospital, the Eiewealories, the,
Master of the Hawks, the Master of the Ceremonies,
the Marshal of the Ceremonies, &e. But even the
beasts IS the forest were nut deemed unworthy the
dignity of a place in the seventh class. Here was a
salary to the Keeper of the Lions in the Tower, and a
Latin Secretary was retained at 70/. a/ear. There
was next an Exchequer watchman. He (Mr. B.) did
not know if the Right lion. Gentleman was acquainted
with this persusaage.—(Much laughing.)--But for his
part, provided the watchman did his duty, he would
not grudge him a larger salary. There were perhaps
five of these dignitaries, who had together a salary of
Mi. a-year. To his sorrow, however, he found in
another part, Viet these gentlemen watched to the tune
of thousands per annum. All that he wished from
them was, that they would produce much better evi-
dences of their official activity in the Exchequer de-
partusent, than were to be found in the unfortunate
confusion of the Civil List. He wished that what was
necessary to support the honour and dignity of the
Crown should be given. He objected to have this ar-
rangement made for the life of the Sovereign, be it
short, which Hod forbid, ur be it lung, which he
anxiously hoped for. But lot it continue as long as
there was found no reason to alter, it by mutual con-
sent. Why was a grant made only fur life, because
the Sovereign granted his hereditary revenue only for
life? But this limited commutation was the most ri-

dicilous blunder that could well be committed. What
was the consequence in the late reign of sixty years ?
This, that Parliament hail to make six new arrange-
ments of the Civil List, :luring that time, and to pay
right times the arrears of the Civil List ; and some-
times these fresh arrangements occurred within a short
interval. If a commutation, extending only to the
life of the Suverign, were made, if the life were short,
it might be too much ; if long, too little. The only
remedy was, for Parliament to take permanent pos-
session of all these revenues, carry the:a to the Con-
solidated Fund, anti par the Sovereig.i a settled an-
nuity instead, to keep separate front the provisions of
the Crown the salaries of Judges, the salary of the
Speaker of the House of Commons—a provision, next
to that of the Monarch, that ought to be the least
grudged by the country. By all means, however,
have the expenses provided for lv estimates; and, if
necessary, there ought to be a Civil List extraordinary.
In this manner only could the dignity of the Sovereign
be best consulted, a clear and necessary arrangenient
of the civil expenditure secured, and economy satisfied.
With respect to the Droits of the Admiralty, he would
only remind the House, that they possessed all the bad
qualities o Lich rendered revenues of this nature the
objects of dislike to Parliament. They were occa-
sional. Conlin•_ at intervals—sometimes slowly, some-
time; in a lump; and, what was worse than all, they
could be turned with the greatest facility to a bad
account. In proof of this, lie should mention, that in
1607, the sum of 113,011t0/. came into the hands of the
Sovereign, all at once, by the lunacy of a rich person.
Some time after, another sum came in in like man-
ner, of 47,000 f.; in I sitt9, a sum of 62,0t10/. He did
not cite these sum. to complain of their enormity, but
he objected to their irregularity, because some such
sum might by accident be brought into the hands of
the Sovereign at s unlucky season—at the eve of
a general election, fur instance. Again, to mention
other instances of the accidental falling in of money :
in 1404, the c.itiliscatien of a ship produced to the
Crown the sum of 105,04111/. Another, shortly after,
brought in -111,0041/.; another, in 1795, 611,111111/. But
the proceeds of the lictch prises amounted to
1,030,000/.; the Spanish prizes t.i 2.200,000/. Such
was the irregularity of the proceeds. But there was
one circunistance which would, no doubt, give rise to
serious reflection in the mines of the !tense. In 14116
his Majesty was graciously pleased, out of his great
goodness and rontlescensii.u, and in consideration of
the great burdens of the country, to send down a
Message to Parliament, that he was ready to lay one
million out of the droits at the disposal of the House, '1
with a view to reliese the distresses of the people. In
answer to this gracious Message, the Commons re- II
tumed their most grateful acknowledgments. Did he I
charge the Parliament with obsequiousness? Certainly I
not. But our ancestors wonld have discovered in
these things a strange conversion of our constitutional
order. What! the Sovereign cowing down to Par-
liament. and, out of his gracious condescension, giving
money for the relief of the distresses of his subjects—
to Parliament, whose functions it was to controul the
provisions of the Sovereign, and, instead of the King
asking for pecuniary aid, and the Parliament granting
it, the Crown giving, and the Parliament thanking
him for the donation. 'I here was a part of the funds
which were of a permanent nature, though not of large
amotrit, which required to be spoken of; namely, the
surplus revenues front Barbadoes and the Leeward
Isles, and the Civil List of Scotland. The first of
these did not amount to mere than 25,000 t, and the I
second was all consumed in pensions, without the
knowledge or controul of Parliament. The services
for which these pensions were granted, might be good
or bad, or there might be no services at ail. So that,
in fact, these windfalls might easily be converted to
effect mischief—to make a job; he did not mean
to use the word in an invidious sense. But it must
he the case, that so long as these funds continued
to he uncontrolled by Parliament, the suspicion would
be kept alive, that means were in existence of sup-
porting a bad influence in that House. If, indeed,
these pensions were to be granted to Earl St. Vincent,
to the relations of Lord Nelson, or those of Lord
Hutchinson, the Minister would not have hesitated
to route down and ask the consent of Parliament, be-
cause he knew full well that the proposition would be
met with unanimous approbation. But it struck them
very properly, that the same approbation would not
be extended to a proposal of pensions to those who
neither fought in Egypt, nor yet at Trafalgar, and
who in short could boast no other claim to their con-
sideration than being favourites of their Sovereign.
It was by no means self-evident that any of those
tientlemeio—for instatiee, the Right lion. Gentleman
(a Scotch pensioner) opposite, or any other of the nu-
merous pensioners he could name--Lord (irenville for
instance—lt wu very convenient, by the by, that he
could name two pensioners connected with different
sides of the House ; but it was by no means self-evi-
dent that any of these Uentlemen would have obtained
their pensions with any thing like the uuauimity that
could bse-enputed is the case of Lord St. Vincent.
But that there might be an abuse in the management of
these revenues, he should show, by citing the ease of
Sir Home Popham. lie would take the circumstances
of this gallant officer's history from himself. At the
end of a long war, when a continued peace was ap-
prehended by most of the military functionaries of
that time, this gallant officer, disdaining a life of In-
glorious quiet—anxious also to seek the haunts of his
former exploits—impatient of that repose to which he

was unaccustomed, and burning to augment the glory
which he had so often acquired on the watery ele-
ment—giving way to all these enobling emotions, he
engaged in transactions for smuggling.—(Loud laugh-
ing.)—Thus it was with the norld—there were va-
rious pursuits by various paths. One man sought glory
in the field, and found it in death—another sought it in
smuggling, and found it in capture.—(Much laughing.)
—Having invested his capital in a consignment, he
embarked on a voyage to the West Indies, taking upon
him the name and character of his purser. He there
fell in with a Captain Rubinson, afterwards Admiral
Robinson, who was quite as anxious for the good of
his country as the gallant officer, though not quite so
disposed to engage in smuggling transactions. The
Captain, however, seized upon the gallant Contraband-
ist—the vessel was condemned and became a davit
of the Crown. Instead, however, of the proceeds or
any portion of them being given to the Captain+

25,000/. were made ovk to comfort the gallant officer
who engaged in smugglieg for the good of his country.
But it was a question indeed, whether or not Sir Home
had smuggled homewards also.—(Laughing.‘—A.
the man who was foremost in battle, was generally
distinguished for the cultivation of the domestic vir-
tues, so did the gallant ggler unite the char-
acter of the hero and the not!) of sentiment. " God
forbid," said he, " that I, who am so forward in the
battle, should ever be welding in my duty to my fa-
mily. No, I will leave the ship, and join my wife
and family un the shore." In fart, he left the Strums
to join his wife in a small boat, but, by an odd acci-
dent, the boat, the endearing little boat, " which
sped the soft intercourse," between them, was o'.-
served to go back and forward during the night be.
tween the shore and the ship.--(3lurla laughter.)---ft
turned out, however, that Sir House did nut own the
cargo ; the vessel and cargo belonged to Messrs. Char-
flock, of Osten& Nitiv the gift to Sir Home migh: :,e
right ur wrotr, but this was certain, that it was girt
secretly, and out of the droits, without the consent of
the House. The Hon. Member then proposed to
argue, that the !fruits ought most to continue, of
the ground that they furnished a temptation to the
Government of this country to enrage iu war, aid
quoted, as instances of the effect of this inducement,
the attempt uiton the Smyrna fleet, the Danish prizes,
and lastly, the Spanish prizes, the remetul range
which, as was said by almost every officer with whom
he conversed upon the subject, otteht to make an Eng-
lish seaman hang his head in shame. At all events
there was sufficient ground for foreign nations to ins•
pute the worst motives to this country to ensage in
war, which ought to be removed. lie next :ppiied
himself to the consideration of the 44 per cent. West
India Duties. It was a revenue that was just usnr;wd hr
the Parliament from the Legislature of Barbadues, and
after having been treated in several reigns as among
those revenues of th.. Crown over which Parliament
had controul, it was upon representation of the autho-
rities at Barbadoes, surrenth red by Queen Anne. The
usual arguments against the entertainment of these
questions now ceased. We !Pepin 5: new reign, and it
became extremely proper to have these !natters dis-
cussed. If his proposition were re jec.-ell now, it would
be saying that these droits ou4ht to remain as a per-
petual stigma on the country, aud an injury to the
dignity of the Cruse!). Ile been moved the following
Ili-solution, and sat t'o w n amidst loud cheering from
al! parts of the House.

That It is expedient. with x slew to an arrangement of
Lis Majesty's Civil List, film this Dense do take into con-
sideration the Moils of tie Crown and Admiralty. the 4
per Cent. West India Duties. end all other fends at the dis-
posal of the Crown, and not u.nally deemed within the eon-
fund of Parliament, and make such provision lunching the
same as shall be most consistent with the honour and dignity
of the Crown."

Mr. CANNING, aft. r a few prefatory observations,
said, that on the part of hia:s. It' and his colleagues, he
I would reject the proposition of the Win. Member for
the sale of the old pre, ozaf ive of the Crown. He saw
nu grounds whater• r tor a substantive motion on
this subject, and the eon—, :adopted was altogether an
unusual one at such a of the proceedings as the
present. The itivar,ali:e usuage had been, during the
i last four reigns, to settle the amount of the Civil List
' in the first proceeding of every New Parliament, and
he saw no mason why there should be now a departure
from that rule. He pen•eived, however, the distinc-
tion which the Hon. tientleinan attempted to draw,
but it could not he maintained by any argument either
(of expediency or coesti:utiunal legislation. The
change which it was Pow sought to effect in the at-
rangerueut of the feud in question was quite unprece-
dented, and was but au ungracious return for the
courtesy evinced by gentlemen on his side of the House,
who conceded a point at the beginning which it hal
not before been the practice to yield, as nothing was
;transacted before the necessary provision was made
fur the maintenance of the splendour and dignity of
the Crown. It ought to have been enough for the
Honourable Gentlemen and his friends that they beard
from the Sovereign hitt:self that no new burdens
were to be imposed, and that he asked for nothing
beyond the fulfilment of an engagement which had
been made after mature! deliberation. In favour of
that arrangement an argument might justly be offered
that could not have been addueed with respect to any
former one—namely, that after the practical experience
of four years, it was found to answer satisfactorily all
the ends proposed. Hut it was, he must insist, a most
unseemly return for the generosity of the Sovereign,
Ito say that when nothing new was wanted, there re-
mained something which might be taken away. This,
indeed, was what he could not have anticipated, even
'from su.:h zealous advocates of economy as the Hon.
Gentlemen on the other side. Nor could be help
thinking it hard, that if a little excess was found be-
I yond the fixed allowance of the Sovereign, a charge
of wasteful extravagance should be made. This, to
say the least of it, might be termed a suspicions eco-
nomy, and was altogether unworthy the sanction of
the Legislature. If the sum established was found
sufficient, let it be adhered to; hut let it not be di-
minished merely because no addition was required to
it.—(hear, hear, from the Ministerial Heuches.)--Let
them nut say to the Sovereign, " We And you are too
well satisfied, but we shall see if there be nut loan-
thing which might be taken away from the feeds at
your disposal." But the Honourable Gentleman
proposed a suitable compensation to the Crown;
yet the queition fur the House to eonsider was, not
whether the funds were to be abolished, but whe-
ther it would be consonant with the long-established
usage to make any change in their arrangement.
The Honuarable Gentlenian, in support of his ergo'
nients for a change, had 'traced the history of these
funds, and he (Mr. Canning) should follow him as
briefly as the nature of the subject would admit. He
should, therefore, begin with that feud, shich was
known by the term 44 per Cent. lb* 1)040110n re-
specting this fund, he touted to be involved is mach
difficulty, and they hat: been so for a lung i 1 peo.
I. the beginning of the reign of Queen Anne, re'
presentation v.-as made by certain
peruse tilivrto
with Barbadoes, which induced the ifettee to APO 1°
the expenses of that island being defrayed est the
44 per Cents, and the conditioe of such a nseilfilte, was.
that quit rents and some other chargeer will, is he
done away. It was certainly true, thee mpill-00 rt- ,
'tips of an addles*, communicating therepeuemledi".
Queen Anne said she would gigs direction,.11"rj.