The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-04-12 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

1'

Mr. I'O.NNONBY—" 1 can assure you, Sir, that
no man in this lie use rejoices more sincerely than I
do, nt the terminatien of the contest with America.
—But it as,uld he a disgrace to this House to pre-
sent the Athlress moved by the Hon. Member, as it
now statels, to his Royal Ilighuess the Prince Re-
pent 7 LP:a LISP I think it iS thei duty of this House
to ;warm his Royal Highness of what 1 conceive to
tse, teen the gross misconduct, and entire mismanage-
ment, Ministers, in the progress of the Negucia.
tieas. and to the execution of the Treaty with the
Uniee! st, tes of America. The first thing that must
aeike every. 1P n who has read this Treaty is, that
the - is int nee subject whatever that existed in dis-
pute the two countries, before its signs.
tare, that does not, in fact, still exist ; and that all
the pretensions hat were advanced by his Majesty's
Mitesters in the course of the Negotiations, which
ended in this Treaty, were, one by one, abandoned
by (hem. 1 hope the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Goul-
burn), as I judge by his manner that he denies this
atreement, will prove that it is erroneous. 1 shall
be very happy to find that he catt do so on good au-
thority. As the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) refused,
on the motion of nu Hon. Friend of mine (Mr.
Whitbread), to lay before the House the papers con-
nected with the Negociatiou, except those which the
American Government has, by its own authority,
and on the responsibility of its own character, pub.
lished to the world. l here speak of those papers
which were laid before Congress by the American
President, and which were received by Congress on
his responsibility. Another thing to be remarked in
considering this Treaty is, the time of its conclusion.
It was not signed till the 24th of December last, and
I think it uitl pot'/le any Gentleman who looks to
it. to find nut what it contains that could have occa-
sinewd a delay till that period. The Treaty of Fon-
taietileau ens signed on the llth of April—this day
eelaemonth ; t e e Act of Accession, by the Noble
Lund, ea, shoed on the same day ; and the notifi-
cati n of the esecution of that Treaty was stated, in
dispatch r, on, the Nohlo Lord to Earl Bathurst, on
the 1.301 of the same month, two days after the
conclusion .of the Treaty of Fontainbleau. The
Coeseetinn with France was signed on the '27th of
April—end the final Treaty was signed at Paris on
the :;Ott of May. Now, surely, it is necessary for
LhE (louse to know what obstacles opposed them-
artv ss to the cnnclusion of a Definitive Treaty with
A met;cl, immediately after the entering into a
Trent: with Franco. The Treaty of Paris had este-
-eset not only per eith France, but with all
Eerepe ; nod it would appear that no time was so
f .rorn aide for this country to enter into negocietions
with America as that %cry period. At no time could
nteimsitien of a pacific nature have had so good an
eff,co, as it .espertel the American Government, the
Amoy lean preple, and the general system of politics
in Earcpe. This Government was then in a situation
to have continued the contest with America, if it
pleased. on the most extensive scale. And the
more elevated it stood in the estimatio'r of the world
—the more powerful aod imposing was the attitude
of the country—the more *at it incumbent on hi,
Majesty's Ministers to set on foot a Treaty of Peace,
and thus to have demonstrated the generosity and
megnanimily of that people, who, while they had
ample means of prosecuting war, influenced solely
by a spirit of moderation, had preferred pence.—
The Peace of Paris was concluded on the 30th of
May, and the first conferenre between the. British
and American Commissioners at Ghent, took place
on the Bth of August. A mediation had been before
proposed—and (speaking ()If the same sort of autho- •
rity, which I have already observed, I am compelled
to de, since the Noble Lord will not allow me any
farther information) that mediation was declined—
at mere negotiation between the Ministers of the two
Conlin is's was considered preferable. At this first
conference, on the Sth of August, if I an: rightly in-
f •rmed by the papers laid before the American Cons
g:ess, the terms on which alone Great Britain would
spike pence with America, were substantially pro-
uessd. The most remarkable of these terms were—
a pacification nith, as they were called, the Indian
Al!ies of Great Britain, and a settlement of their
he elect:tries—flan ita ty possession of the Lakes of Ca-
mel', and of certain islands said to belong to us,
bet occupied by the Americans since the Treaty of
175:3; to this was added, a desire of settling a new
boeudary for the Ammican and British territories,
between the Mississippi acid the American Lakes.—
ISer those po7ets which appeared to be principally
pressed by the Ministers were, the pacification of
fire Indians—the &fining' of the boundaries of their
territories—the military occupation of the Lakes of.
Canada—and the cession of those islands which the
Ameticans had occupied since 1783. The papers,
en which 1 argue, state, that the American Com-
missioners were informed by those of Great Britain,
that tne conceriou of these points was tl4 sine gun

•....

+...u.

"-ftswir

part. It had been waged, not for aggrandisement I non, without which peace could not be concluded.
or seugeance, or the ditlt,lon of our military glory The other terms, although to a certain degree in-
-G*Pat Britain stood too nigh in the rank of na- sisted on, were not of so much importance; but no
ton: to injure her to pursue such objects, and re- hope was held out that peace could be restored be-
ed nn T. ns.nt ',tic tame to add to the splen. tween the two countries, unless the propositions re.
iloor or her clint ition. The Americans had avowed specting the pacification with the Indifils—the deft-
principles affecting our maritime rights—rights in nition of their boundaries—and the military posses-
which not our glory and our independence but our sion of the Lakes—were agreed to. These terms
very e‘istence sans involved. Those rights we had the American Commissioners peremptorily refused.
secured. We had made peace in the true spirit of With regard to some of them, they had no instruc.
pence, and ns the representative of a great comfier- lions from their Government. They stated, that
cial city no one felt more sensibly than himself the they were not authorised to cede any island, part of
adv.iitages tthick we should probably derive from the territory of the United States of America—and
it. Th.. tzar hail brought both countries to estimate that they would not take upon themselves to do it.
one another more fairly. America had felt the They did not feel themselves justified in joining in
pots er of Great Britain through the nhole of her any instrument that might be supposed to look to an
territory and in her very capital, and had exile-' alienation of ally part of the American territory.—
rienced that this high.mitoled country would never Under these ciicunistances, the negociations at Ghent
bn4itate to sari dice her immediate interests ttbeliever continued for two days longer, and were then SUG.
her honour was concerned. lie concluded by mow pentled, while the American Commissioners sent to
i their Government for instructions on the subject of
•• Thai an humble .Arl.tress he presented to his rt.,,al in4h- the terms that had been offered. When the repre.
re„s jolt, reformist the Thanks of the 'Hooke la sentations of the American Commissioners, eccom-
to,,ltn)al for hi, basin,: been gra, iunsiy plea,ed to Eroded by the documents which had been inter-
.;..er in be !a..1 before the a cull of the Treaty of changed in the course of the negociations, came to
•.:e.. Amity heto reit Cleat Britnin and the the hands of the Government of the United States
tio;;mt sia es ..f America, vend he :osure his Ray& Iliellites
they unanimously refused the terms stated to have
that tartyroil-Ids...it the game they rtleet with the Ut- -
horn °" red by this countrry. 'rule American Pre-
tun-, 4r.rtritle :tint sati.faction sin the fresh proof Oa-telly of- eA.
ent laid the papers before Congress ; and, ac..
f ,rile -iti by this important arr.inzetnetit of hi. Ito‘al &W
cording to the forms of the Constitution of that
I. •••5... regard for the welfaro of the people
uhu. iheN would t•-tab:i-11 a pr O'er.' re- country, they u ore published to the American people.
rotwitiaiine and .. brt,“ en nations On the information thus given to the world—and on
b, ennat • of for,.m.micterost." thii alone—am I now enabled to state to the House

the course which appears to have been taken. The
President took the advice of Congress on the sub.
ject ; and it does appear, not only that the Ameri-
can Legislature, but that the whole American people,
were unanimous it, refusing what was proposed by
his Majesty's Ministers ; for it does not appear, that
even in these States which were least inclined to war
—even in those States which were most unwilling
to support the measures of the American Govern.
ment—that the smallest disposition was manifested
to agree to a treaty founded on the terms proposed
by his Majesty's Ministers. And, Sir, it is some-
what remaikable, looking to the actual state of
America at that time—marking those parts where
en indisposition to war, as might be seen from their
proceedings, appeared most strongly to prevail—it
is, I say, remarkable, that his Majesty's Ministers
demanded one of the principal cessions of territory,
in the State of Massachusetts—that very State, which
was attached, less than any other, to the Govern-
ment of Mr. Nladison—that very State which, above
any other, had expressed opinions decidedly unfa.
vourable to the war.--[Hear, hear!]—Yes, Sir,
the greatest cession of territory was asked from that
State, which, I should have thought, above every
other, it WAS the duty of this country, and of Mi-
nisters, to conciliate. They ought to have well con.
sidered, whether it was discreet or wise to make de-
mands of such a nature, as must inevitably alienate
its affections from this country—as must destroy the
strong dispositiou which existed for cultivating the
friendship of England—which, in fact, must place
the people in that situation, where they must either
give up the honour of th-ir country, or abandon
those predilections in favour of Great Britain,
which they had long cherished.—[Hear, hear!.)—
Sir, in debates on subjects of this sort, formerly,
and I have witnessed many of them in this House, I
do not recollect a single instance, in which the Ad-
dress to the Crown was moved by a Gentleman not
in any official.or responsible situation.—[Lord Cas-
tlereagh, across the table—' ns, the Address on
ihc Peace of Paris.']—The Noble Lord says, the
Address on the Peace of Paris was thus moved—l
hope he will not blame me, if I do net give much
weight to his precedent.—l am surprised that the
Address should be moved by a Gentleman not in any
responsible or official situation—who, of course,
cannot be accurately acquainted with the details of
the subject—and cannot be able to give the Ilouse
any of that authentic information, which we have a
right to expect, before we are called on to come to a
vote, and to express our opinion on matters of the
utmost moment. The Noble Lord has not stated
why lie has not himself moved the Address. But I
think, after he had denied all Papers connected
with the Treaty, it would have been more respectful
to the House, and more satisfactory to the country,
if he had stood forward himself to propose the
Address—and if he had, in the course of his state-
ment, given es some of that information, for which
there is so much necessity. Sir, after various move-
ments in the negociation, on the Bth of October in
the last year, his Majesty's Commissioners drew up
nn article, which they proposed for the acceptance of
the American Plenipotentiaries. This article re-
ferred merely to the simple pacification with the In-
dians, in consequence of the cessation of hostilities
about to take place between Great Britain and Ame-
rica. Not a syllable about a definition of territory
—not a syllable about a boundary line was men.
tioned. NVliciever reads the Correspondence will see
that the American Commissioners always resisted
this demand of a boundary line for the Indians, on
these grounds, that, in fact, the Indians had no
ter.pry, as sovereigns of the country—that the
United States were the sovereigns of the soil—and
that they gave the Indians leave to reside there, for
specific purposes. They had the liberty of hunting
—they had the liberty of fishir4,—they had, in fact,
little more than the liberty of existing on those ter-
ritories.' A property in the soil, farther than this,
was utterly denied ; and the Commissioners refused,
therefore, to agree to any article which went to form
a new boundary line between the Indians and the
subjects of the United States. They were ready,
however, they stated, and so was their Government,
when peace was concluded with the United States,
to extend that peace to the Indian Allies of Great
13iitain. But they should be placed exactly in the
same situation as that in which they stood when
the war broke out ; sin new privilege should be
extended to them in consequence of the
hostilities betweett Great Britain and America.
The Commissioners also stated, when the Treaty
was almost concluded with this country, that the
American Government had entered into negociations
for peace with the Indians themselves—and that
they probably were, at that time, brought to a fa-
vourable conclusion. The article drawn up on the
Bth of August, was, after these statements had been
made 7 agreed to on the 13th. The American COM•

missioners expressed their acceptance of It, provided it extremely hard to describe to os the course or 4
their Government did not disapprove of it. They line drawn due west from the said latitude,
al. that
made no objection to it—the parts which they had is, from the 45th degree of North 1 t
.tums,
before opposed, having been given up by his Ma. where it strikes the river Iroquois'—f Loesker-
jesty's Ministers. By .this article, the Indians were this being one of the boundary lines specified e,
to be placed in a state of pacification, precisely as Treaty of 1783. I em sure no independent Europear;
they were before the war—nothing else was stipu- Sovereign can he found who could follow this
lated for—and, therefore, the American Commis- oidinary line—and I doubt whether any man in
sioners agreed to it. They did not, however, corn- world would be able to strike it accurately. c..,e
pletely conclude on this point, until the approbation twin I am, he ought not to he sought for
of their Government was notified to them. The but in America. The Emperor of An:ttit, or fl;
American Government did not hesitate to give their King of Prussia, would, I believe,
_fiari it :be rn
approval ; and that article, thus drawn up by our difficult problem they ever were requested to seer„'
Commissioners, and approved by the other side, is if they %%ere called upon to draw this famous 1;„,, '
the very article relating to the Indians, which now [A leash.]—The subject is, indeed, rather ludicrous
stands in the Treaty itself. Thereseems to me to be than important. It would have been better if two
no difference in substance. I know not what the Commissioners had been appointed on emit tide,
Hon. Member (Mr. Goolburn) may soy, as to the with the power of nominating an umpire; or a
authenticity of the papers from which I draw my greater number of persons might have been apps at,
information. I only know that they were pub. ed to settle the dispute, a majority of whom Beet
lished in America ; and there really seems to me to have been empowered to decide. But to call on ze
be no difference between the articles drawn up on the independent Sovereign of Europe to settle so corn.
Bth of August, and agreed to on the 13th, and that ',Heated a polio, is, I think, most ridiculous. The
which we now find in the Treaty. The second de- Treaty, on all the subjects of dispute that exived
mend was the military occupation of the Lakes. On before the war, is perfectly .sifeet... No mention;
this subject the British Commissioners stated, that made of what is called our right of Impressment—no
the occupation of the Lakes, in common, each mention is made of oar right of blockade—no tom
Power being allowed to navigate them with such tion is made of the principle of those measures shish
vessels as they thought fit, and to erect such forts gave rise to the war, the Orders in Council. Ido
as they pleased, would give rise to disputes rind dis- not blame the framers of the Treaty for these ornis.
agreements, which might probably occasion frequent sions. Because, situated as Europe was, when tha
war. And then, to remedy this evil, it was pro- Treaty, was concluded, I think it was much better
posed that Great Britain should be allowed to build to make peace between England and America, teed
whatever forts she liked, and might navigate, in any to prevent that peace, by discussing points which had
species of vessels she pleased—but that America lost much of their interest—no man being then corn.
should have no liberty to raise forts, even on her own petent to say, when the same degree of interest was
side of the Lakes, where her right was certain, plain, likely to be attached to them. Be this as it may, the
and undisputed—and that she should also be debarred Treaty is signed, and the pretensions, on both sides,
from navigating ships of war on them. These con- remain just as they were. The signature took place
ditions were promptly and peremptorily refused by the on the 24th of December. The Treaty of Paris was
American Commissioners—and the Treaty is quite signed on the 30th of May—and I have found it quite
silent on this subject. It leaves the state of things, impossible to assign any substantial reason for the
with reference to this point, exactly as it was before long delay that took place, between the conclusies
the war. Now, Sir, 1 ask, is it true that the Eng. of the Treaty of Paris and that of Ghent. It surely
lists Commissioners made these demands of the Ame- was desirable that a Treaty with America should
rican Commissioners? Does the llonourable Gentle- have been concluded, the moment this country was
man (Mr. Goulburn) mean to deny that such a de- freed from European war. At that time peace should
mend was made? if he should rise, this evening, will have been offered to America. We should then have
he say, that this proposition was not made—and that appeared, in the eyes of America and of Europe, as
it was not immediately refused by the American acting with true generosity, as displaying real mag.
Commissioners ? We know that the Treaty is al- nanimity. Such a proceeding would have disarmed
together silent on this subject—we know that both the hostile feelings of those who were most unfa•
parties are left in possession of the, rights they before vourahle to us. Such an exhibition of temper and
enjoyed—hut, will the Honourable Gentleman deny, moderation would not only hare been useful et the
that, for the purpose of securing a safe passage from time, but world have been serviceable in all succeed.
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to Quebec, the ing ages.—[flear .I]—Why that glorious opportunity'
demand I have alluded to was made? Will he declare was lost—why the Treaty with America was delavel
it is not fact that such a demand was made to the so long after peace was restored to Europe, lamat a
American Commissioners—resisted by them—and loss to discover. That mystery remains to be exploited
refused by their Government ; and that, in conse- by some Gentleman on the other side of the House.!
quence of this opposition, the parties stand precisely . But, Sir, what consequences have resulted frost this
as they were before? If what [advance be fact, Sir, delay ?—[ hear, hear I.]—What a useless waste of
and the Honourable Gentleman may disprove it if he treasure—what nn unf2rtutiate and ever-to.be•la.
can, then, I say, that Ministers have entirely deviated mented waste of the hen blood of the coutitry—er
from the course which they first proposed. The cle. the most distinguished Olficers—of the bravest, the
finite boundary fur the Indians—the alteration to be most heroic troops !—[llco r, &in.)] —All sacrificed,
made pith respect to the relations between them and as I conceive, through the neglieence or indolence.
the American Government—the military occupation of his Majesty's Ministers!--[iear, hear I] —All
.of the Likes by England—the prevention of a military sac: ificed by their not concluding a 'Treaty c,f Pea: e,
occupation by America—and the portion of territory with America, the moment the Treaty with France
to be given rip in the State of Massachusetts—all was signed ; and by delay ing that Treaty still farther
these points, I say, are abandoned. If they are not, in disputing points with America, which they after.
I hope the Honourable Gentleman will point out to wards thought fit to abandon ! Would these points,
me my error on this subject, and that he will show even if carried, have balanced the misery which has
something in this Treaty to prove that we have gained followed the delay occasioned' in discussing. then' ?
every advantage contemplated. If, Sir, he cannot do In my opinion, Sir, they would not. The Bun.
this, I trust he will make it appear that the British Mover of the Address has spoken of the great ad.
Commissioners did not ask for the concessions stated vantage which must be derived from the cultivation cf
in the papers to which I have alluded. Above all, I a friendly intercourse between the two countries.—
hope he will show to the House, that one of the de- No man feels the truth of this fact more than I de.
mends I have mentioned was not made as a sine qua But has the lion. Gentleman contemplated the con.
non, without a compliance with which, it was de. sequences of the delay which has taken place, with
Glared, that no peace would be made with America, reference to the renewal of that intercoms.? The
although it was afterwards abandoned.—[Near, war, for the taxation of America, hastened bye cen•
hear !]—With respect to the possession of the Bay of tury her separation from. this country ; and I sill
Passamaquoddy and Moose Island, his Majesty's venture to say, that the war for the Orders in Coon.
Ministers replied to the representations made by icil, the attempt to govern the commerce of Awe.
the American Negotiators on this point, that it was rica, has hastened the progress of that country to.
not even a subject of discussion. ' The property . wards being a great manufacturing •and a great
,of that island,' said they, ' is a matter we cannot naval power, by at Least a century. A war of this
discuss. It is our own—it is our property. It is' description, big with important consequences like
ias much the property of the British Crown as Nor. these, ought to have been terminated as soon as the
thamptonshire itself.' This expression is to be found honour and interest of the country would have per-
in the correspondence. Such a reply was evidently mitted. It was a war, of all others, that should
given for this reason—because it would be a sort of have been prevented, if possible. I have heard a
u-tteer of the right to this property, if discussion number of thoughtless people say, ' 0 ! let AMP'
were permitted to take place relative to it. Now, rica go to war with us—of what consequence is
her
Sir, in the Treaty which has beets concluded, we find power, when compared with that of Great Brittle, r
that the property of the Mooso Island, and the other —I look upon such a feeling as this to be most rah.
islands in Passaataquoddy Bay, is to be decided taken. I declare, there is no European Power
hereafter according to the Treaty of 1783; and whatever, riot even excepting France, a war with
that the possession, by England, is not to deprive which 1 should think so ruinous to the permanent in•
America of her right, under that Treaty—nor, on . terests of this country. Those inconsiderate ler•
the other hand, is the possession, by America, to ! sons, from the consequences of the war with Atne•
destroy the right belonging to England •, but each, riea, have probably found out their error. lheY
according to the terms of this Treaty, of 1783, are now, I imagine, perceive, that she is not that
to have their respective rights secured to them; and, contemptible power they wore weak enough le
instead of this not being a matter that admitted of think site was. Descended from the same ancettors
discussion, Commissioners are to be appointed to —fired with the saute spirit of independence—actu•
examine into the claims of each country. The set- !met! by the same sense of honour as we are—a war
tlement of the boundary lines, between the territo- with this people ought to be avoided above any orheh
ries of the United States, and those of Great Britain, ! 1 am sorry to say, Sir, that the history of mankind
as laid down in the Treaty of 1783, is to he left to' shows too frequently, that, to make one neli'm
the decision of some friendly European Power.— treat 'mother not only oil!) liberality, but with Plc'
Now, Sir, if we read the article of the Treaty of lice, a certain degree of fear should enter into their
1783, which calls for this settlement, I think there i mutual regard ; and I am afraid that the history of
is no man in this House, however skilful, however our species will prove, that no great country has,
acquainted with diplomatic subtleties, who will de.lfor any long period, treated its less powerful neigh-
dare, that he ever saw a point of so much difficulty I hour with respect, unless that respect has been ems
given to any Foreign Power whatever, for the pur- dueed by successful la-siva:ice. 11.1,, where a strung
pose of having it clearly expounded rind decided.— sense of superiority is felt on the one side, and de-
lft is really curious to read the article which is thus ; cided and unresisting weak:le:a; is seem' on the other;
to be submitted to an independent Foreign Sovereign, ; instead of receiving protection, the weaker Sella Is
that it may be placed in a clear and proper point of almost sure to he oppressed. I trust, in Gad,
view, so that no future disputes may arise.—[Mr. ! another oar may never Nise between these t"
Pn.ssonby here read the article in the Treaty of countries, to teach them the respect which they etre
1783, describing the boundaries of British North to earls other. There are no two countries in
the
America, and the United States, the almost inconceiv- world whose interest 3 are mule blended tugether-3"d
able perplexity of which occasioned much laughter.] there are no two countries where it is more easy i^r
—These, Sir, continued Mr. Potisonby, ure the those who governs inthem to observe the relations
points which a foreign Power is to be called on to peace and amity towards each other. It it not very
determine. I believe, with the assistance of Mr. Ar- easy, in Governments constituted as ours t3O.
w/ rosmith to draw
Isislmps, and aided by the ablest induce a quarrel between the two countrieetif 11e
geographers in the world, Ow is rot an index true state of affairs be known to the people 4)1 egr
peudent Sovereign in Europe who would not find Nothing but deception—nothing but snisuuderstate''

- -

tile
it, Q
rho'

,011
or..
boy
thy

pro
I

ii;
the i
(ice'

VI et,

magi
tubli

•I:IIN

fsifli
MI I

Val(
hail
ha

DIUrl

mom
need
from
ste

!enc.(

by t I

he in
ders
*war

inner
or of
that 1

%read
publi

(which

rear

" our

et tt
.s to
the rig
lot ti

.ra phi
"lifts'
.4.11 y
er k

,
:-1
0. i. MI one subject whatever that existed in dis. America at that time—marking those parts where man (Mr. Goulburn) mean to deny that such a de- freed from European war. At that time peace should a;°
pute "..1.1`.1 the two countries, before its signs- 'en indisposition to war, as might be seen from their mend was made? If he should rise, this evening, will have been offered to America. We should then have Pel,
the :
tare, that does riot, in fact, still exist • and that all proceedings, appeared most strongly to prevail—it he say, that this proposition was not made—and that appeared, in the eyes of America and of Europe, u
WWI
.1 the preteosious teat were advanced by his Majesty's is, I say, remarkable, that his Majesty's Ministers it was not immediately refused by the American acting with true generosity, as displaying real meg. lies,
1 Ali: esters in the course of the Negociations, which demanded one of the principal cessions of territory, Commissioners ? We know that the Treaty is al- nanimity. Such a proceeding would have disarmed at a
, ! ended in this Treaty, were, one by one, abandoned in the State of Massachusetts—that very State, which together silent on this subject—we know that both the hostile feelings of those who were most unfa. fain
by them. I hops the Hots. Gentleman (Mr. Gout- was attached, less than any other, to the Govern- parties are left in possession of the, rights they before vourable to us. Such an exhibition of temper and 'pre
burn), as I judge by his manner that he denies this ment of Mr. Madison—that very State which, &berm ' enjoyed—hut, will the Honourable Gentleman deny, moderation would not only have been useful et the eik:
sta. ement, will prove that it is erroneous. I shall any other, had expressed opinions decidedly unfa- that, for the purpose of securing a safe passage from time, but would have been serviceable in all succeed. magi
be very happy to find that he cart do so on good au- vourable to the war.—[Hear, hear!]—Yes, Sir, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to Quebec, the ing ages.—[flear I—Why1—Why that glorious opportunity tabu
111.11 b(
thority. As the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) refused, the greatest cession of territory was asked from that demand I have alluded to was made ? Will he declare was lost—why the Treaty with America was (Idly'd
reel:
on the motion of an Hon. Friend of mine (Mr. State, which, I should have thought, above every it is not fact that such a demand was made to the so long after peace was restored to Europe,larn eta , .
and
I Whitbread), to lay before the House the papers con- other, it was the duty of this country, and of Mi- American Commissioners—resisted by them—and loss to discover. That mystery remains tobeexplaiest 1111e111
ii fleeted with the Negociatinu, except those which the nisters, to conciliate. They ought to have well con. i refused by their Government ; and that, in conse- .by some Gentleman on the other side of the House. f Veil
American Government has, by its own authority, sidered, whether it was discreet or wise to make dee ! quence of this opposition, the parties stand precisely . But, Sir, what consequences have resulted frola this of th
aid on the responsibility of its own character, pub. mands of such a nature, as must inevitably alienate, as they were before? If what [advance be fact, Sir, delay ?—[ilear, hear!]—What a useless wnste of rest
i
fished to the world. I here speak of those papers its affections from this country—as must destroy the ; and the Honourable Gentleman may disprove it if he treasure—what on unfortunate and ever-to.heea. e:ip:
wide!. were laid before Congress by the American strong dispositinu which existed for cultivating the ' can, then, I say, that Ministers have entirely deviated mented waste of the heft blood of the countryee( test''.
1 ]'resident, and which were reeeived by Congress on friendship of England—% hich, in fact, must place , from the course which they first proposed. The de- the most distinguished Officers—of the bravest, the iu es
be 1' 1
his responsibility. Another thing to be remarked in the people in that situation, where they must either ' finite boundary for the Indians—the alteration to be most heroic troops !—[hear, hero;!]—Alf sacrificed,
considerbee this Treaty is, the time of its conclusion. give up the honour of their country, or abandon made with respert to the relations between them and as I conceive, through the neglieence or indolence, '1
li It was not sigoed till the '24th of December last, and those predilections in favour of Great Britain, the American Government—the military occupation of his Majesty's Minister, s! [Hear, hear 11—All Rill:
ii I think it still putzle any Gentleman who looks to which they had long cherished.—[Hear, hear !.I—. of the Lakes by England—the prevention of a military sac: ificed by their net concluding a Ttekty of Pease, on 1
i it, er find nut what it contains that could have occa. Sir, in debates on subjects of this sort, formerly, occupation by Ainelica—and the portion of territory with America, the mentent the Treaty with France thiu
simper! a delay till that period. The Treaty of Fun- and I have witnessed many of them in this House, I to be given up in the State of Massachusetts—all was signed ; and by delay log that Treaty still farther pee:
1 taiebleau as signed on the llth of April—this day do not recollect a single instance, in which the Ad- j these points, I say, are abandoned. If they are not, in disputing points with Amer ice, which they after. halt,
twel t emont It ; t e Act of Accession, by the Noble " dress to the Crown was moved by a Gentleman not I I hope the Honourable Gentleman will point out to wards thought fit to abandon ! Would these !mites, who
Lord. was segeed ors the same day ; and the notifi. in any official.or responsible situation.—[Lord Gas. Ime my error on this subject, and that he will show ' ere.. if carried, have balanced the misery which has 1/1611
• COI .11 of the esecutien of that Treaty was stated, in tlereaglt, across the table—' ns, the Address on i something in this Treaty to prove that we have gained followed the delay occasioned' in discussing. them ? mow
a eisp.och le 091 the Noble Lord to Earl Bathurst, on Mc Peace of Paris.']—The Noble Lord says, the every advantage contemplated. If, Sir, he cannot do !In my opinion, Sir, they would not. The Bun. need
the teth of the same month, two days after the Address on the Peace of Paris was thus moved—l this, I trust he will make it appear that the British , Mover of the Address hes spoken of the great ad. tree
conclusion .of the Treety of Fontainbleau. The hope he will not blame me, if Ido net give much Commissioners did not ask for the concessions stated : vantage which must be derived from the cultivatina cf ste
Couv...itinn with France was signed on the 27th of weight to his precedent.—l am surprised that the tin the papers to which I have alluded. Above all, I, a friendly intercourse between the two countries.— leers
. . April—ella the final Treaty was signed at Paris on Address should be moved by a Gentleman not in any hope he will show to the House, that one of the de- !No man feels the truth of this fact more than I de. TI
the ;;(1,11 of Ma). Now, surely, it is necessary for responsible or official situation—who, of course, mands I have mentioned was not made as a sine qua , 1
But has the Hon. Gentleman contemplated the con- by tl
•
HIE House to keow what obstacles opposed them. cannot be accurately acquainted with the details of non, without a compliance with which, it was de-. sequences of the delay which has taken place, with NI
scows to the conclusion of a Definitive Treaty with the subject—and cannot be able to give the house Glared, that no peace would be made with America, reference to the renewal of that intercoms..? The bele
i 1 he in
A met,Ca, immediately after the entering into a any of that authentic information, which we have a although it was afterwards abandoned.—(Hear, war, for the taxation of America, hastened bye cen-
t
I. n Tr...ie. %sill, France. Tee 'Treaty of Paris bad este- right to expect, before we are called on to come to a hear !]—With respect to the possession of the Bay of tury her separation from. this country ; and I sill ders
' b; ..!.1.(1 not ugly 'steel- ,sith France, but with all vote, and to express our opinion on matters of the Passamaquoddy and Moose Island, his Majesty's venture to say, that the war for the Orders in Copse tar
i r,;lrrpe ; :IA it would appear that no time was so utmost moment. The Noble Lord has not stated Ministers replied to the representations made by cil, the attempt to govern the commerce of Awe- inner
/ • l', rote a lee for tl.:s country to enter into negorietions why he has not himself moved the Address. But I the American Negotiators on this point, that it was rica, has hastened the progress of that country to- or or
I that'
,t, w ;tit America is that very period. At no time could think, after he had denied all Papers connected not even a subject of discussion. ' The property wards being a great manufacturing and a great
l; r ',tole...item of a pacific nature have had so good an with the Treaty, it would have been more respectful lof that island,' said they, 'is a matter we cannot naval power, by at eeast a century. A war of this /read
eff.,cr, as ir .egetseie.l des American Government, the Ito the house, and more satisfactory to the country, discuss. It is our own—it is our property. It is , description, big with important consequences like Ilan.
An.,on.ae peeple, and the general system of politics if he had stood forward himself to propose the as much the property of the British Crown as Nor. these, ought to have been terminated as soon as the puhli
in Ei, , 1)... This Governmeet was then in a situation I Address—and if he had, in the course of his state- thamptonshire itself.' fhis expression is to be found honour and interest of the country would have per- nessi
l' to terve continued the contest with America, if it ment, given us some of that information, for which in the correspondence. Such a reply was evidently milted. It was a war, of all others, that should tim
lensed. on the most extensive scale. And the there is so much necessity. Sir, after various move- given for this reason—because it would be a sort of have been prevented, if possible. I have heard a 'e
It we
mere elevated it stood in the esiimaticei of the world I meats in the negociation, on the Bth of October in waver of the right to this property, if discussion number of thoughtless people say, '0 ! let Arne' the fi
's , —the more powerful :eel imposing was the attitude the last year, his Majesty's Commissioners drew up were permitted to take place relative to it. Now, rice go to war with us—ef what consequence is her at :l t
s 1 of the country—the more wet it incumbent on hie an article, which they proposed for the acceptance of I Sir, in the Treaty which has been concluded, we find power, when compared with that of Great Britaior esele
Majesty's Ministers to set on font a Treaty of Peace, the American Plenipotentiaries. This article re- that the property of the Moose Island, and the other —I look upon such a feeling as this to be most mis• have
' and thus to have demonstrated the generosity and ferred merely to the simple pacification with the In- islands in Passaepaquoddy Bay, is to be decided taken. I declare, there is no European Power had,
•
'1 ; sseje
magnanimity of that !people, who, while they had diens, in consequence of the cessation of hostilities hereafter according to the Treaty of 1783; and whatever, not even excepting France, a war with
ample means of prosecuting war, influenced solely about to take place between Great Britain and Ame- that the possession, by England, is not to deprive which I should think so ruinous to the permanent in' frl/111.
by a spirit of moderation, had preferred peace.— rice. Not a syllable about a definition of territory America of her right, under that Treaty—nor, on terests of this country. Those inconsiderate ler• and a
i I The Peace of Paris was concluded on the 30th of —not a syllable nbout a boundary line was metp- the other hand, is the possession, by America, to sons, from the consequences of the war with stele- eerie,
F May, and the first conference between the British firmed. NVlicrever reads the Correspondence will see destroy the right belonging to England; but each, • riea, have probably found out their error. 'll'el. Grin:,
awl American Commissioners at Ghent, took place that the American Commissioners always resisted according to the terms of this Treaty, of 1783, are i new, I imagine, perceive, that she is not VA made
on the Bth of August. A mediation had been before this demand of a boundary line for the Indians, on to have their respective rights secured to them; and, ' contemptible power they were weak enough to cause
1 proposed—and (speaking mettle same sort of eutho_ I these grounds, that, 'in fact, the Indians had no instead of this; not being a matter that admitted of think she was. Descerened from the same ance'lee' anti st
rity, which I have :already observed, I am compelled tet;o;ory, as sovereigns of the country—that the discussion, Commissioners are to be appointed to' —fired with the same spirit of intlependeuce chive
;.
Imo
to de, since the Noble Lord will nut allow me any United States were the sovereigns of the soil—and examine into the claims of each country. The set- ated by the same sense of honour as we are—a ear pierd I
: farther information) that mediation was declined— that they gave the Indians leave to reside there, for dement of the boundary lines, between the territo- with this people ought to be avoided above any other.
:ehich
1., n mere negoriation between the Ministers of the two specific purposes. They had the liberty of hunting ries
cope:hies was considered preferable. At this first —they had the liberty of fishire —they
e of the United States, and those of Great Britain, lam to • fir,that the historyof mankind
sorry say,
had, in fact, as laid down in the Treaty of 1783, is to he left to shows too frequently, that, to make one nation
iviliz
%trier
conference, on the Sth of August, if I an: rightly in- little more than the liberty of existiog on those ter- the decision of some friendly European Power.— treat 'mother not only with liberality, but with inc.
hese
f :need by the papers laid before the American Con. ritories.' A property in the nor., farther than this, Now, Sir, if we read the article of the Treaty of lice, a certain degree of fear should enter into Veit
..,
e g:ess, the terms on which alone Great Britain would was utterly denied ; and the Cniamissioners refused, 1783, which calls for this settlement, I think there mutual regard ; and I out afraid that the history of .roits
-
, spike pence with Aims:lea, were substantially pro- therefore, to agree to any article which went to form is no man in this House, however skilful, however our species will prose, that no great country lasi 0 oup
prised. The most remarkable of these terms were— anew boundary line between the Indians and the acquainted with diplomatic subtleties, who will d for any —sett.
ondu
e. long period, treated its less powerful neigh-
f. a pacification with, as they were called, the Indian subjects of the United States. They were ready, dare, that he ever saw a point of so much difficulty boar with respect, unless that respect lies been pro- .ova ,
1 Allies of Great Britain, and a settlement of their however, they stated, and so was their Government, given to any Foreign Power whatever, for the pus- doted by successful rcsistance. 11u', where a Wong I'4 ed
i.tl tit li lantlaries—rui;itary possession of the Lakes of Ca- when peace was concluded with the United States, pose of having it clearly expounded and decided.— sense of superiority is felt on the one side, and de-
;
'felt
I etele, and of certain islands said to belong to us, to extend that peace to the Indian Allies of Great It is really curious to read the article which is thus cidetl and unresisting wealseess is seen on the other;
bet ecrepied by the Americans since the Treaty of Bi itain. But they should be placed exactly in the to be submitted to an independent Foreign Sovereign, instead of receiving protection, die weaker Soil" '' "our
lees; to this was added, a desire of settling a new same situation as that in which they stood when that it may be placed in a clear and proper point of • almost sure to be oppressed. I trust, iti Gad,) :dr.
. bo;lntlary for the Ametican and British territories, the war broke out ; Ito new privilege should be view, so that no future disputes may arise.—[Mr. " another war may veter arise between these i" .ie c
• between the Mississippi arid the American Lakes.— extended to them in consequence of the Poesonby here read the article in the Treaty of countries, to teach teem the respect which they "`" Ilas t
Put those iv ets which appeared to be principally hostilities between Great Britain and America. 1783, describing the boundaries of British North to earli other. There art no two countries in the '"rev
pressed by the Ministers were, the pacification of The Commissioners also stated, when the Treaty America, and the United States, the almost iticonceiv- world whose interests art. mot a blended tugethet—and 3rt w
' the 1:;(1;00C—HIP &fining' of the boundaries of their was almost concluded with this country, that the able perplexity of which occasioned much laughter.] there are no two countries where it is more easy for Sto
he rµ territories—the military occupation of the Lakes of American Government had entered into negociations —Thesev Sir, continued Mr. Ponsonby, ure the those who Govern iii them to observe the relall6"' 'l. list
i
Cm:lda—and the cession of those islands which the for peace with the Indians themselves—and that points which a foreign Power is to be called on to . peace and amity towards each other. It in riot ter • rape;
: Areeticaris hall occupied since 1783. The papers, they probably were, at that time, brought to a fa- determine. I believe, with die assistance of Mr. Ar. ' easy, in Governments constituted as ours ere. it('
"Iffisi
(rem which I argue, state, that the American Com- vourable conclusion. The article drawn up on the roWesnith to draw. his maps, and aided by the ablest induce a quarrel b?tween the two copuen,,tprlieet,s,.;ief,.7
• •c- • .„1„
rui:sioners were informed by those of Great Britain, Bth of August, was, after these statements had been geographers in the world, OW is ROI all Inde•e true state of affairs lie known to the ,
• el pl.,
tint toe concei:.,,el of these points was the' sine qua made, agreed to on the 13th. The American Com- pendent Sovereign in Europe who would not find Nothing but deception—nothing but snisuuderstate''
to,'
• .
.• . .
. .
.. .
....-..ia..4........
...
_ .
...•

iiP