The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-03-16 00:00:00

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vate intercourse, ha.l not been nude for a century put.-1
(Hear.)—lt was true. if they looked a little further bask I
than a century ago, they would find that the House Mid"
disgraced itself by exercising some such power as
that now proposed in the instance of the Popish Plot,
on which occasion those who were guilty of express-
inga doubt of the existence of it were sent to prison.

Lord P 4

...7.-(111ear.)
Sir R. FERGUSON observed that the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) had narrowed ,the
:question, as though this were only a solitary ease, bathe
apprehended it would be found that the language com-
plained of was that of a Treasury Circular.
Mr. WYNN said, he had argued upon whit the
Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Arbuthnot) him._!
self stated—that the letter was strictly private. (Cheers.)
Mr. BANKES said a few words which were inaudi-
ble in the taller/.
The Honaorable GEORGE LAMB thought it was
much to be regretted that after the handsome peplum,.
Lion of the Right Hosiourable Secretary (Mr. Arbuth-
not) and the opinion delivered from the Chair, the
Right linuourable Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) merely for
Abe sake of defending the privileges of the House,
should have tun the risk of raising the whole question
again.' The Right Honourable Gentleman in his tirade
against iaterferenee with private correspondence, bad
berged the whole of the question; for the very question
before the House was, whether the letter in question
was private or not.—(Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL stated that he bad not brought
forward the subject of this letter as a violation of the
priviteges of the House. He bad distinctly declared
that he rose to asic .n questlea of a Right Hon. Gentle-
man upon a case of importance; which nearly concerned
thapnvilegee of the 31enthers of the House. tht Areal
Honourable Gentleman, the writer of this letter, having
.disavowed any wish to cast intputatioas on the Gen-
tlemen on that side of the House, be (Lord .1. IL) could
only say that be was satisfied with the explanation.
Lord NORMANBY expressed himself to the same
effect.
ten themotion of tho CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIR
QUER it was resolved that the House, at its rising, do
adjouth to Monday.
JOINT IPOSTX3STERII-GSNICR4L.
Lord NORMANBY gave notice that, on Thursday,
the 2d
f=rom
May, be would bring forward. in a different
shape from that already dispoeod of, • motion for the
reduction elope Postmaster general.
Dr. FHILLIMORE said that. on Wednesday next, lst:
should move for leave to bring iu a Bill to amend the
Marriage Act.
rOMAIITTIC OF SUPPLY.—ARMT ESTIMATES.
The House having ;awaited its if into a Committee of
Su p ply,
Lord PAL3IERSTON moved that the sum of 236,3391.
be granted to his Majesty, to defray the charges of the
Lacil Forces of Great Britain, including those stated
&Email. excepting that part in India.
dlr. MIME declared his intention of proposing an
Amendment, to lessen this vote. The first item com-
posing the gross sem to which be took exception was,
to GPO/. for the table kept for the Officer's of the
Guards at St. James's. He proposed to reduce this al-
lowance to 3,0011 t.; which, admitting that the 'Ware of
their duty might require &table to be kept up, was quite
sufficient for all proper purposes. It was quite enough
for a plain table, and he was sure the House would never
sisactioo in these distressed times, the maintenance of a
t title with such viands aced such wines as were calculated
to be detrimental not only to the corps itself by engen-
ofeeieg expensive habits, hut to the service in general by
eeasnple. The next item was a charge for allowances to
thlisfficers of Si thfilids. 35.0100/. which be should
meth for being reduced. The riding establisbeneot
would also form part of the amount of his reduction.
There,was already an expense of 4,0001. for teaching the
different reginteots to ride, independent of this, aed-that
was quite enough without any other. Ile should also
propose to remit the charge of 501. for inspecting the
colours of the army. He did not see how it was to be
supposed that Sir G. Naylor could spell better than the
Colonels' of regiments. whom the colours particalarly
concerned. Again, out of the COW for barracks, he
should suggest that 40110/. be reduced. And of the Staff
charges be proposed to reduce 8.3001.—a very moderate
amount, which he knew could easily he saved. The
Hon. Member concluded by moving, "That in place of
the auto proposed, the vote be fur 211,4081. Os. Id."
Sir C. BURRELL showed that the Officers of the
Guards were not paid so well as any other officers in the
British army, and contended that they were therefore
entitled to the small consideration of the table at St.
Jauseshi Palare spoken of by the lion. Member for Aber-
., demi. If an Ensign in the Guards were to sink the por-
e:l46e money of his commission in an annuity, he would
get a muchligher rate of pay than lie received in virtue
of his coonisiwo. With regard to the table which was
kept fur thirteen Officers of the Guards. when the Hon.
Member talked of the luxuries with which it was sup-
plied, and the quantity of wines wasted. he was quite in
error ; for lie believed the officers were rather kept on
short footman' than otherwise. There were subalterns
in the Guards of sixteen or seventeen yeas' standing,
whose pay would do no more than cover the expense of
their regimentals.—(Hear.)—Besides this. if it were cal-
culated, he was convinced that the differeoce betwixt
the allowances of the Officers of the Lino and the Guards,
could make it apparent that the keeping of this table in
lieu of those allowances, was in fact a saving of 30001.
—(Hear, hear, hear.)
Sir N. HARDINGE bore testimony to thefthgal man-
ner in which the table of the Guards was kept. It was al-
ways shut at eleven o'clock, and no wine gives after ten.
It had been attached to the Guards since the formation of
the corps, and was established by agreement. instead of
certain allowances which all the rest of the army bail.
It was, therefore, not very fair to propose, at this period,
to break through that compact. If the Subalterns of
the Guards received the same allowances as the Sobel-
terns of the other part of the army, they would receive
30,000/. Rat they received only 18,08=1.. being a differ-
ence of 12,0001., by deducting from which the cost of
the table, there remained • clear saving of 6,000/.. re-
sulting from the very arrangement that was so cried
down. He protested against the Hon. Member imput-
ing.mal-adnunistration on any part of the army. It was
as impartially and as purely administered in time of
peace, as ever it was in war.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BERNAL begged to remind- the Hon. Member
who had spoken last, that his Hon. Friend could oat be
expected to know every thing, and he might therefore be
wthogis to the table of the Guards. lie (Mr. Beroal)
beroißM he was; for be believed that the
lions of that corps were kept at less tapioca than any
other such number of battalions. Other battalions were
provided with barracks= and if the fair rate of lodging'
money for the officers were calculated, it would be found
that the keeping the table instead of it. was a saving at
least of 6,oool.—(Hear.)
Colonel TRENCH said this table cost at this time
considerably less than it did some years age. In 1712
for a table &r five officers, the public paid, 3.5001.; but
now. for thirteen officers. the charge was no mere than
6,000/.
Mr. BENNET contended that the table might be en-
tirely dispensed with.
Colonel DAVIES observed. that in 1819, when there
was a force of 80,000 Inc., the expense was 18J100/. less
than in the present year. He moved that the original
Resolution should he further reduced by this 18,00111.
Colonel DALRYMPLE spoke against the
meat.
'-`IX skewed that a

. .

After some further coneenation, in whirl Colonel
Dalrvosple. General liascovne, Colonel Davies, Sir H.
Harding,, Sir R. Vivian. 411 r. Huglansess„ Mr. T. Wil-
son. and Mr. Hume participated. the two Amendments
were severally neeatived, and the original Resolution
Carried withont a division. '
The following grants were then moved :
For the Military Establishments of Ireland .£681,149
For defraying the thereof the Staff for
tikeat Britain and Foreign 'Rations. . 96.848
Mr. HI'ME considered that four distinct Quarter-
Muter. General were not necessary in 179 d; the coun-
try paid Inn for one. He wished at the same time to
know, if it was intended to reduce the office of Chap-
lain-General to the Forces? In 1793 the salary of that
office was one guinea per day. It hail been slice in-
creased to 8001. kyear, and now cost the Pantry i-. 001.
a-year. He also thought that the number of Aides-di:-
Camp to the King might he lessened, or at least that
they should be paid out of the Civil List. He wished
further to, know what the satire of Assistant Chaplaie
were, as every regiment had a Chaplain. He was told.
indeed. that the Chaplain-General had the selection of
individuals qualified to act as Chaplains; but it should
not be Ms care, hut that of the Bishops, that none but
proper persons should he ordained. .110 also inquired
why there were four Quarter-Masters-Genual in COMMIS*
two Aides-de-camps to the Commander-in-Chief there.
and two military Secretaries? lie was of opinion that
one half the number of each would be pdficieet. T:ren
In would reduce the sum of 1,038!.; and in the Wind-
ward and the Leeward islands also 2,2i01. At Jamaica.
at-Gibraltar, and at the Cape of lispoilve, tike same
leaftecessary Staff was kept up; all thrineglistib rit?art-
aim they were fond of duplicates. -lo 1798 tbh coined
the Staff was 23,00 U!.: for the same duty they were
sow called on to pay 118,000/. He was not certain If
he had made a proper selection of redaction • hat front
the several heads, Le would propose to take oil 13,11001.4
at the same time, taking care to leave one officer of each
department for the discharge of duty is each of she
lonics. He He concluded by moving as an Ateseadwotat,
that the sem of 12,0001. he taken Wien vote proposed.
Lord PALMERSTON vindicated the present Staff
Establishment, as cootraszed with that of 1793. is
ing that the increase expense might be stemmed fee by
the increased duties to he performed. He next entered
rinto some details, to prove the value and efficacy of the
I,Chaplain General's Department.
Colonel TRENCH said a few words in support of the
vete.
Mr. 111/31E still contended that the items to which he
had adverted ought to be reduced.
Lord PALMEILSTON, after recapitnlatint the save-
ral items, maintained that no reducuon whatever (add
be made consistently with tire interests of the public
service.
Sir. ELLlCEcomplained of the salaries given t• AC
cers in the Colonies being ton large. It ulid wet ay peer
to him that the duties they performed Misled learn It
the remuneration they eeceived. The Roe. alimbeethin
adverted to the expenditure in the Leeward islands ad
Demerara, observing that there were many abases con-
nected with it, which ought to be aterseseL The se-
veral Colonies, particularly in the West lobes paid
their fair quota towards defraying the exposes if k
ing them up, but the money was net
A great deal was talked of with respect r4tIM fees
in England, but be denied that it was attelle that
which now prevailed ia the West India Islantta.
Sir R. VER6ICSONiras the last enea Se Reglad the
inters of essrAi Mesh% Mhielillfrei
be strictly attended to. Ile only eranektbst =Wit
Cent. Duties were dale applied Aek she pamesee fat
which they were originally intended...ldeleadi if Wag
employed to pay pensions to cateisloallies *A Gentle-
men who badges:tabu whatever ea the mslestiry.
thought the esparto 'stalled on the ' fne the
manna of the Ofiestre at the Cape of Owed sad
other Colonies was extravagant to the last
Mr. tiOULBURN spoke at some lertipylr
the colonial espeaditore, contending that iba
Country had mere than an equivalent in do reesailimi
they yielded and the employment they afforded to wee
superabundant population.
Mr. ELIIIGE explained. He conceived it hi
jectionable that the colony of Dammam @hada W-her.
dened with 8,0001. or 10,0001. a-year leg the parotid of
sinecures to certain individuals.
Mr. GOULBU RN, in explanation, midair, wallonlY
one sinecure at present chargeable as shed Celesy. •
Sir R.FEROUSON observed. that the of
the Cape of Good Hope hada salary of NAM ,
O+
a house. a park, forty slaves, and ethpe„
which made hiriucotue amount to littietheitet
a-year. In his opinion, his present saw ass be
reduced to 3,000/. which, with the slllinidned had.
would be a very ample provision.
Sir. BENNET, in comparing theeetxre
was I
in the year 1792 with that of 1816 f
a difference of 8,0001.. which hut knew net Wei
Noble Lord opposite would be - - .
Bonaparte was then alive. and ' ...-
force was supposed necessary
present.
Lord PALMERSTON said,
the foreign stall expenses were
accounts. The whole sum '"
Now the totalwas 36,0001.

increase upon this head. there
shoots charges of above 3,0001.
Home) seemed to wish to
these of 1792, without rotor

licy could be so bad as that
Colonies inefficient.

did nut icrowhide -fir say).
year, no uses conic' Lave fore
so sureessfie4 and be Loped h.
same course ; disc did, he Isa.l n..
.1 the Session ttu. mould stjll ettret
ennieigiod fad the country. Ttusitiprilse Lease might
antit him credit for his ezetikmoll,o4 inanity would.
which most have its indeencv.

Mr. HU3lE.saisl be would nit oppose too
in the present state of Ireland. but wises peace. refereed
to that coustry, bq thought that a greet reduction might
be effected in the staff department.
Mr. It. SMITH wished to know if aay communication
was made to the Noble Marquess that a Prince (ea un-
derstood Leopold) Lad signified his intention of re
dicing his Income to a level with that of the Royal
Dukes, end giving up the excess to the exigencies of the
coontry as he (Mr. S.) understand it to he his istentioe.
The Marquess of LuNIXINDERRY said that no
commanication of the bled was made to him. The cis.
cuntstance was quite a novelty to him.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
Oe the motion that a sum not exceeding be
granted for the department of his Royal Highness the
Commender is Chie(
Mr. HL ME rose, and proposed as an auseadmentthat
the sum of 10,856 f. be substituted fur 14,5181. sbieb
would make a reduction in that department eiolllllll4s
8,3811. on the pay of his R. Highness the &kinsman,
in Chief; LOW/. on that Of his Secretary; and the sa-
lary of his Chaplain he would reduce altogether, which
was ISS/. a year. The appointosett of a Chaplain was ,
merely nominal, and he thought the alike altogether
unnecessary.. 2,000 f. a year was the salary of the Sc.
cretary. for whose services he thought JAW. a year I
quite 'efficient His Royal Highness the Commander-
in-Chief bassi now 16 guineas a (lay. and previously to
1814, during the war, when the duties ought to be J
sup-
posed greater, he had bat Dim guineas i day. That he'
thought too much in a time of peace.; and though he
did not mesa to undervalue the service of his Royal
Highness. he ought to submit to a reasonable redaction,
with which be thought his proposition consistent.
Lava PALMERSTON defended the necessity of a
eiefiebe; He had various duties to perform; he oil-
'kW et the Horse Guards and at Whitehall; he alas
stlemded seise barracks and a school. The Commander
ia-Chief was not paid more than was due to his ranker
sore than the Duke of Wellington received Wk.ts he
held the same situation. As to Isis_ official duties, none
eeeli be mere difficult s and no one more conscien-
dimly desimed himself to their performance than the
press* cemeseder-in-Cbief. The Secretary also had
most restart duties, such as admitted of no relaxa-
tion. sad regileoll his constant tessidatie is Lando..
He thought It wsiid be most unjust to make any reduc-
tion, or cripple so Important a department.
Mr. HUMS wished to know when the increase of sa-
lary to the Cessaiander-in-Chief was attached ?
Lord PALMERSTON said is 1613.
Hr. HUME said that at that rate it did sot attach to
his Royal Highness as Field Marshal—that occurred be-
fore, sod the Increase of pay was made in 1814, after the
war was over. Ile did set undervalue the services of
the Commander-io-GlAels No slimmers could be more

unadvised than the raisiog of Mir. salary from nine to
sistres Owes just at the conclusion of the war. At
all evestethoss slices should be subject to the rethic-
dos of ton pa asst. as all the civil offices were pro-
posal to Iso, for they len as ouch civil offices as any
other.
The Mammas of LONDONDERRY said he Would
sot rise if Is was sot of opinion that what the Hon.
lifseable for Alseedere imaduidwortagiviog an unfair co.
louring So the @Rustles off U sHighness. 11 was
_ -
ilia a

)millMs: Hie
ds sal Ids Secretary were in pommies of the public
esuidesce.—(flear, bear.)—The ille•MI of lei.
Royal inghseekgrew sato( the arrnairemeat made with
the Dishes( Weillowass. when be was raised* the rank
of rum 11arebel. sledge the-battle of Visalia, sad it was,
a greet imams@ of Ms Royal Higbases's heimaraace
that be did mat Wan that claim tie full pay of a VieW
Martial. The Ceseweader4•4ldef was as machos ac-
ties employment as ever. No peruse oa the Staff was
at off es half allowance, and be hoped it was not
.mast* pat the Comassuder.in•Chief on half-pay. No
penes was sere *added to praise than the Commander-
' is-Chief.
After a few words from Mr. Minutia and Sir Jobs
Se suer,.
Mr. U. BENNET was called by the toes of the Noble
US mate a feseobseriations. The Noble Lord had
sarcasm, and thrown undeserved censure mil
Mead, who of all men was the least
&pease to reflect on the Commaader-in-Obief. The,
,sissis the pay of that illastrioss individual was however
'lnas•insoia. If was his owe brother he would reduce
ISC•int. His Hon. Fruited was sot influenced by per-
sonal motives.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY appealed to the
Committee if he imputed say improper motives to the
Ilea. Member for Aberdeen. He only said his amend-
ment was calculated to gin an unfavotuable colouring
- Hitler- Lim at-

• Prikrklet Cr SS VAN.
tlirto thousand poowlsyeasi.ftemed sly inekstim Malor*lew Aberdern
od with reapert to the *emits, &nettle na p
pe to bos his campaign last
the last year, including all cbargaso did vet Mama% 11.1. man be would have bees
per m in. would continue in the sar
fm•the... renetrastiee_ in Adel Colonel doubt before the end of t: