The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-04-17 00:00:00

i •

MISO ; if it gives way, allows for a moment,. that
one of its privileges should •be broken into, his
punishment is gone, he has gained a triumph.—
[hear, hear!] Under these considerations, I
can never give my vote for thy liberation of Mr.
Gale 'Melt, until he complies with the rules of
the House."
Mr. CANNING did not feel it necessary toe:.
amine the question, whether the House did or did
tint possess the privilege, or whether they were or
not right in the exercise of it. These questions
had been'already decided by the House. The sim-
ple and naked question in the present instance was,
whether the measure of punishment inflicted was or
was not adequate to the guilt of the party? He had
not heard any Hon. Member say, that be did not
think it adequate; and therefore, being now forced
to come to a decision, he must say, that it did ap.
pear to him an adequate punishment for the offence.
He felt, however, sorry that the question bad been
brought before the consideration of the House
this evening. He had much rather, consider-
ing the particular circumstances of the time
(Mr. Canning probably alluded to the meeting at
Westminster), that the motion had been post-
poned for 48 hours ; but as it was brought fur.
ward now, he must determine on the vote he
should give by the merits of the case itself, ityle.
pendent of extraneous considerations. The Hon.
Gentleman who brought forward-the motion (Sir •
S. Romilly), had declared that he had ao manner
of communication with Mr. Gale Jones upon the
sobji•ct of the motion. As Mr. Junes therefore
had nothing to do with bringing forward the mo.
Cult oa that particular day, he thought it would
be very hard that he should suffer on ac-
count of the circumstances of the time in which
the motion was made, Would the Hoeso deter-
mine to exhaust upon Mr. Gale Jones the whole
measnre of punishment that they were capable of
inflicting, or did they really think that his crime
deserved the greatest punishment which the House
could inflict? It was alleged, that, besides his ori.
ginal offence, he had been guilty of contumacy,
which deserved additional punishment. lie really
could not discover this contumacy. When this
person was brought to the Bar, he, in the first
instance, confessed his fault, and supplicated the
mercy of the House. After the supplication of
mercy, it appeared to Maly that it was rather
hard and severe for the House to send him to
prison. But why should it be said that he
refuses now to confess his fault ? Did the
House 'ask him to do it ? Might not ho well
snppose that the same arguments and supplications
which failed before fail now ? Ile wished
that this question should be considered separately.
on its own merits ; and he agreed perfectly with
the Right lion. and Learned Gentleman (the Mas-
ter of the Rolls), that it would neither be just or
suitable to the real dignity of the House to-keep
this man in prison longer than appeared to them
just, from the fear of appearing to be afraid. If
Mr. Jones should now be discharged, after hay.
ing remained so long in prison, no one could say
that the House had abandoned any of its privi-
leges, or that his release set that question to rest.
As to the dignity of the House, he thought now
the great offender (who he would contend had
justly and legally bees imprisoned), was suffering
the punishment inflicted by the House, it could
not lower the dignity of the House to release the
wailer offender, after having inflicted on him a
measure of punishment which appeared to be ge-
nerally considered adequate to his offence.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL contended a.
gain 4 the releasing Mr. Jones, without his pre.
seating a petition in the usual forms., He could
not see any reason for excepting this ease from the
. general rule. He did net see on what particular
grounds it could be contended that Mr. Jones was
rotitl -41 to more favour from the House that' other
p..rsoits ho had b!en committed to prison by the
'lease. Ile could not agree with the Hen. Gen.
°entail, that there was any necessity for .Mr.
Jones er any other petitioner, mooting any parti-
cular opinion : it was only necessary that he
should state generally his sorrow fur having vio.
Weil the pi;.ileges of that House. 'Now he
could not conceive what objection Mr. Jones
could have, in point of conscience, to state
that in writing, which ho had already stated
at the bar of • the House. He believed that
no man' cuuld deny that Mr. Junes had been
guilty of a violation of the privileges of the
Muse; and if it were impossible for him to doubt
that he had been guilty of that offence, what reason!.
able objection-could he have to comply with what
%vas required fry thirforms of the House, and say
-so ito k petition T Such a. confession would have!
nothing to do with* 'the abstract question 44 she
tight of the House to commit, or the other gees..
tions which had been recently agitated.„ There
were two remarkable cases, which were Aliiecti:
ly in point. In the last Session, the House_
had committed Captain Sandon and General
Glaciating-. The former hail evidently -beat
guilty of the grossest preraricatiou, which be
confessed; and the latter had positively (leaved,
and the declaration was believed by his friends
and many Members of the House, that he never
did intend to prevaricate. Of this, howeyer,
every bsoly was agreed, that the guilt of Capteite.,
Sandie), in
.concealing the nee, and the many
falsehoods he told respecting it, was greater than
the iiffencte of Gen. Clavering. Nevertheless,
Capt. Saladoz was liberated after a month's
sittinient, because he presented a petition ; and
Gen. Clavering, because lie presented no petition,
was suffered to remain in prison till the end of the
Session, which was three months from the date of
dais imprisonment. These recent instances would
• show that the House was accustomed to show leni-
ty to those who asked it by petition in the usual
forms.
Mr. W. SMITH could not see that the dig.
• nity of the House absolutely required some peti:
tion, hut that any petition of any kind would be
sufficient to satisfy that dignity. He thought that
- 'nothing could he more contrary to the reel dig-
nity of the House than to confine a person longer
than the justice of the ease required, merely on a
point of form. lie thought the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman (the Solictiir-General) who
lad just sat dun had chosen strange cases to sup.

.16

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T ~.a~

THV. STATESMAN.

port his argument. A 4 to the imprisonment of
General Clavering for three months, he believed
there were very few who recollected the evidence
he gave, that considered an imprisonment of
three months as a punishment too great for
his offence ; and therefore it was not at all sur-
prising that no Member should have meowed
for his being discharged without a petition.
The fact was, that it was the opinion and
the advice of the friends of General Clavering,
that it was more advisable for him to remain in
prison during the Session, than to receive that sort
of reprimand which he would have been liable to,
if ho had been discharged upon his petition. Cap-
tain Sandoo had presented a petition, and was
discharged after a month's imprisonment, upon re.
calving e reprimand. It could not, however, be
said that he received more lenity than General
Glowering, as the friends of the General thought
it better that he should be some time longer in
Orison than be subject to such a reprimand.—
There was, however, a prodigious deal of dills.
fence between the guilt of General Clavering and
that of Mr. Gale Jones. He believed that every
one must allow that the uffence of the latter by
no means merited so severe a punishment as was
due to that of General Cleveriug. He thought
it would be an unworthy and disgraeefol reason
for continuing Mr. Jones in custody, that to-
morrow is great Meeting was expected in West-
minster. [Mar, hearl Why should he be
imprisoned in .consideration of the probability
of some other persons doing some other thing
entirely unconnected with his offence ? As to
the question which would then prubahly be dia.
Cussed, he must say, that be very mach wished
that the House had agreed to the reprimand instead
of committing Sir Francis Burdett. If they had
done so, many disagreeable. consequences might
have been. avoided. At present, the minds of the
public were, and must necessari:y be in a state of
suspence about the legality of the execution of
the warrant, until the trial should have taken
place. lie thought that this question ought to be
decided on its real merits, and that the further
punishment of Mr. Jones should not be made to
depend upon a mere point of form. If the House
really conceived that Mr, Jones had received suf.
ficient punishment for his atom., he could not
think that it world be at all for their dignity *to
act contrary to justice.
• Mr. mAttitykr did not consider that Mr.
Gale Jones should be punished merely for obsti.
nacy. If the punishment he had received was
considered sufficient for his contempt of the privi-
leges of the House, it was his opinion that he ought
to be discharged.
Sir JAM ES II A Li, did not conceive that the
House would either consult its dignity or its cha.
racter by an unnecessary prolongation of the
imprisonment of Mr. Jones. lie did not know but
,that, so far from a punishment, it might be of
novice to him. It might serve him in his debating
society, and in his trade as an orator, to have his
case made interesting to tioefeelings of the public.
He would probably be considered as a martyr to
public principles, and would gain a degree of
popularity that world abundantly repay him for
his imprisonment.
Mr. WILBEItFORCE observed, that no man
yet had attempted to answer the very able argu-
ments of his Right Honourable and Learned
Friend (the Master of the Rolls). The powerful
arguments which he urged with so much weight
remaining completely unanswered, he could out
avoid agreeing to his conclusions, and voting fur
the release of Mr. Gale Jones. The case of Cap-
tain Sandon only proved, that the House did, upon
a petition, remit a part of the punishment which
they would otherwise have considered due to the
offence. Their remitting, however, part of the
merited punishment on account of a petition,
could not at all be prodtteed as an argument fur
inflicting more than an adequate and merited degree
of punishment on a person who did not petition.
[Hear, hear t] He thought this case ought to be
decided upon its own particular merits, without
any consideration of circumstances which were ex. !I
traneoue to it. From all the views he could take
of the subject, ho felt himself hound to vote for'
the releate of Mr. Cale Junes.
Mr.WARDI4E said, that he should-vote for the
release; and he trusted that, on a future ay, he
should be able to prove to the House the truth
of the opinion which he had entertaitted all along,
that the House had no power to eenonit.
Mr. CROKER could not see any IcaSQII why
the present case should be determined in a manner
differeut from what appeared to be the established
usage of. the House oe similar occasions. lie
manisinot see taunt this case stood on more favour-
able &presume-09'1Mo sate cases, and therdars.
heeliotild vote against the motion, merely on the
of conforming to established piecedents,
to the usage of the House.
: Mr. BANKES also thought that .the ;louse
rought net Ili depart from its forms and preeedents,
eed more especially at such Oleos as the present.
Mr. 111 LEY .ADDINGTOISAsmeght that the
general usage of the House with respect to per-
,soee who had been contesktal to prison Without
having existessed confrition did nut apply to the
present cure, where it -allowed that the person
broeght to the' Bet had expressed hip sorrow fur
tho aflame, ant[ asked the forgiveness of the
House, It appeared to him that the address made
by Mr. Jones, at the Bar, was in the nature of a
petition, and that it ought to be considered as ap.
pliink to every period of his imprisonment.
Ittr. OW OT said a few words on the other side.
Mi. WYNNL considered that in the case of
GeneraliCiayering the punishment was not more
than equal to the Offence. Mr, Jones had, how-
ever, now been in prison nearly as long; he had
been eight weeks iu Newgate, and that was a
time which every body seemed to consider an ade-
quate punishment for his offence. It must also
'be recollected that the House wes,no4 on Ole eve
of au adjournmeot, which would otschsittriJy add
considerably to the term of inipritonment,
if
he Were not discharged at present. ' •
Mr: ADAM did not consider that themmemee.
sure.of punishment was due to an offence of 'the
nature of Mr. Gate Jones's, which he could only
collider as a coustructisu obstsuctjeo to the pro-

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.-----.,----
ccedings of the House, aswould be necessary in the 1
cases which had been cited; which partook more of
the nature of substantive and actual obstructions.
He considered the privileges of that House as 0-
Cential to its existence ; but the exercise of them
• was nut to be confined to cases of mere centemilt
Wha • from his Learned and Honourable
Frie peered to hint to he completely unan.,
swera • This was a question of distributive
justice, and there was more true courage, more
sound discretion in exercising It at this moment, than
at any other. in liberating Mr. Gale Jones, they
did not abandon their privileges. They might, as
had been well observed, ccanmit the next day for
a similar offence. He could perceive no objection
to acceding to the motion, except the apprehen-
sion of something that might possibly take place'
to-morrow.. He was, therefore, of opinion that
it would be advisable to postpone the bringing
up of Mr. Jones until Wednesday. The prin-
ciple of the motion had his cordial concurrence.
Sir S. ROMILLY, in reply, stated, that it
was his intention to amend his motion to the effect
- recommended by his Learned and Honourable
Friend. There was another amendment suggested,
to which he could not so readily subscribe, name-
ly, to engraft upon his Motion, that Mr. Jones
should be liberated itt consequence of having al-
ready expressed concern for his offence. That
expression of contrition was already on the votes,
and was therefore unnecessary to be repeated...-
Whatever the event of this question might be, he
must congratulate himself for having brought it
1.
before the House. lit the course of the debate, it
had beau imputed to him that he watched hit time
to bring forward his motion ; meaning, he pre-
sumed, that his principal inducement was the
obtaining of popularity. Against such a charge he
would not condescend to justify himself. Those
who knew him, he trusted, would give him credit
for being actuated on this occasion by more ho.
nourable motives. He hod declared his intention,
after the debate on Sir Francis Burdett's commit.
ment, to take an early day of moving feb the dis-
charge
of John Gale Jones; and it was in purse.
ance of that notice that he submitted the motion
now before the House. Ilad he not brought it
forward either this day or to-morrow, Mr. Jones
could not be discharged before the 2d of May, to
which time he understood the recess was to ex.
teed. He could not consent to add three weeks
more imprisonment to the punishment that gen.
tleman 'had already undergone. With respect
to the question itself, he did not tied that the
practice of commitment was established on such
grounds as should deter him from maintaining,
that it might. sometimes be improperly tier.
cised, or pushed beyond necessary limits. Least
of all, could he admit_ that a person was to
suffer under that practice, until he made ac-
knowledgment of his error. If that were the in-
variable rule, he might lie in prison for ever. He
trusted the House would act on more liberal
grounds. He should have thought that a person
who made acknowledgmeot of his offence in the
first instance, who was afterwards committed, and
remained for some •weeks in prison, bad a strong
claim indeed for his release upon the justice and
mercy of the House. Had Mr. Jones petitioned
to have been discharged on the 13th of March,
the House would have agreed to it. lie bad al-
ready expressed at their Bar his regret at hav-
ing done that which the House conceived to
_be a breach of Its privileges, Why was he
to be called upon to humble himself a second
time ? It would seem as if the House was punish.
ittg. him not for what was past,- but for the isitpre.
hension of something that was to come. lii must
contend, that neither the case of Huxley Sadon,
nor that of General Clavering, were aiming's, to
that of Mr. Jones. For himself he must say, that
if he were in the case of the latter he would suffer
any length of imprisonment sooner than make sub.
mission. The punishment of Mr. Jones he con-
sidered to have already far exceeded the measure
of his offetice; and as one of his judges, as one of
those who sentenced him to that punishment, for
he must be bound by the decision of the House,
he felt it his duty to move for his discharge.
The House then divided on the motion for bring-
ing up Mr. John Gal,: Jones to-morrow.
Ayes - 112 I Noes - 160 I Majority - 48
STAMP OFFICE.
Mr. WHITBREAD stated, that unless the arrangements
proposed last Session to be nioe in the Stamp Office were
carried into effect before the month of May, he would submit
a motion to the House on the subject after the Recess. •
-Mr. WHARTON replied, that every expeditims,was aced
that th...• complicated nature of the department *ould allow.
Mr. WHITBREAD observed, that if the same assiduity
had been applied, which persons exerted in their private COD-,
cents, it wa, morally certain these arrangements might have
been completed bug ago.-
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY'.
The Home having resolved itself late a Committee of Sup-
plv.
`tile. WHARTON, after some oliervoltbsts, moved. that a
spin net eiceedin,t 518.181 f. be granted far the expenee of
Marracks. The excess above the-vote nflavt year, he observ-
ed, was oceasimwd by fitting up the building at Winchester,
called the King's !louse, as barracks.
The ReStolutiote were agreed to:
Mr. WHARTON reined, that a sum not exceeding
1,250,034. should be granted for defraying the expeoces of
the Commissariat Department.
The Resolution was agreed to.—Adjourned.

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THE STATESMAN.

LONDON:

TUESDAY,' APRIL 17) 18106
GiBRAGTAR PAPERS to thc 25th ult. have been
received. Tite following extraordinary Prods-
,
Illation has been issued by thc Governor of that.
place :--
pgoc I.A M ATION.
• " Ileed-quarterA Gibraltar, March ?I, 1810.
" Excellency the Commander in Chief is pleased to
direct, that, commencing with the sth of next month, all
persons of the fallowing descriptions shall he obliged to
wear a badge on their breast or some cobspicovus pun
of their dress, describing the nature of, their gaploymeot,aad
which will he furnished to them gratis at these crrtaCla OW*
on receiving their liceores, viz. hawkers, pdhers, re/num,
bum-lanatmen, truckaten, • and carters: All'intreigters em-
ployed in the King's works will he required to .wisaralrailar
badges; And the different guards will have strict orders to
apprehend any person of the above dasortiptiocryshoksay.ats
tempt to pass any of the gates, or wham they may see ma-
?toyed es ithintt their:proper badges.
" Any perstin found wearing one of these hadats,who Is not
duly I icessed, and any, person atteniptlas to pautOrfelt them,
Will be treated-as a spy! and pro -aaW *plat With the ut-
. must severity. •• •

a.

. I

f'

•1

With the deepest &mecca, -we annewesse tee—
vlith of Lord Coesiterawooa, the gallant hertrof
'Wafer. His Lordship expired on beard his
own ship the rale cle".Paris ; and his tomeies were
conveyed in that vessel to Gibraltar.
.—....—._
Tnr debate ire the House of Commons last oight
deserves the attention of our readers. Of Sit
SAIWIL ROMILLYI we are inclined to speak with
much respect, although we sine erely lament that
he lately expressed something like a concession, 4
a matter of opinion, to the mere authority of the
House. Sir Sawyer. ROMILLY is nut called upon,
in the discharge of his dubs to the public, to insult
the House by the manner of his protesting against
soy of its decisions—.that is most true...but, neither
is be called upon to yield his opiniou to the audio.
rity of the house; for, In fact, such concession,
is dangerous to the public, when made by a person
'of sound understanding and gouerai!y admitted
integrity, such astir SAMUEL ROXILLY is. 1.10
night, if we could admit the ground taken by the
Learned Member to be well chosen, we should
warmly praise his speech ; ler it had much excel.
lent feeling in it. But he did out take suficiently
high ground : he pleetted for an individual, sod
should have argued for the Country, against the
claim of the House to itnprison for a Wail. The
House rejected the motion to libnite Mr. Joaxc,
on the ground of its dignity, and lest it should ap.
pear to betray fear. Mr. JON es, then, is to be
called in to support the dignity of that House!
And the fear of being thought intimidated, is to
prevent the House from performing what, accord.
ing to its own doctrines of its privileges, vosld
be nothing more than a gracioes and generous
condescension '. From those who thus atleise the
House, it may well pray to be delivered.

SECOND EDITIOX

STATESMAN OFFICE,'
rove. o'cLocc

MEETING OF THE ELECTORS OF
WESTMINSTER. •

This day, a Met ling was held of the Electon
of Westminster, pursuant to a Requisities,
signed by nearly TWO THOUSAND most re.
speetable Inhabitants and Electors, to take
into consideration such measures as it might
be deemed proper to adopt on the late pro.
wettings of the nonce of Commons egotist
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT. The Meeting um
mach more numerous than or any former oeca.
*aims. Before twelve n'eock, Palace-yard was
crowded, and all the avenues leading to it were
filled by the time the 'Meeting commenced. No-
thing, however, could be more orderly, or woes
consistent With the character of peaceable sub-
jects, than the whole coieduct of the proceedings.
At about one o'clock the HIGH BA 11.110 open.
ed the Meeting by reading the Requisition, and
by a most appropriate speech. Mr. STURM then,
after a very abk speech, moved the following R:.
solutions, which were *teed to unanimouslg :
I. That we most highly apptove of Sir FRANCIS BeR-
D4TT'S LETTER to as, his Constituents, the Sit*, Win
of the Wawa ItePolleace, and the Argument igiolitriNeileT

ble. - .
11. That Sir FRANCIS HURD ETT's conduct in calling
the Sheriff to the protection of his house against a
Force, was dictated by prudence, knowledge of, and.*
dente io, the Laws of his Country.
111. That the Rouse of Commons be called q 6ea
store to us our beloved Representative. and la. COPIPO
immediately with laim.ia his eadeavvlll in Praia" hi
Repzesentation of the People to Parliament.
The Petition, expressed in very firm, yet eetl
proper language, was now read and adopted; d
was also a Letter to Sir FRANCIS OURPgrli
expressing the full and entire stpproketioel byes
Meeting, of the whole and every part of blO Coo'
duct as a Member of Parliament. •
Lord COCHRANE, who WAS present, cemented
to present the Petition to the House, and sade
Speech, which was received with very great sk
plause.
Mr. WISBAILT, Col. WAIMEA, and
load
iss•
NINGS also spoke, and were greeted wi
plaudits.
The Thanks of the Meeting were given to Lord
COCHRANE, for his support of Sir Y. BO'
DETT—and to the Hum &Limn for bas eeadi'
ness in calling the Meeting, and his impartial to
duct.
The Meeting, was advised by the sevner
eral
Speakers, to conduct themselves in a Don
ta give no handle to Ministers to misrepres '
heir motives ; and the moment the business It
concluded, the Assembly dispersed in a toy er
derly manner.
foi Al,:tßideqdieli:ecizti,fo:rissirginrcautulartsi:!ttiouroanigihatecto.o:l;;:
.the Freeholders to consider the COO of
FRANCO RUUDETT, &c.
pTohbel c
icatntatty.t
1.
lib otuog
hcoonf
against Me: Joui GALS Jones, and Sir Dar;
imooonsequence of a Requisiti°"
.juLtielverld•roPettiskle burgesses and inbabits!ostg"ts
i
amioluted Monday,
W the OtiC
inatsparpose.
LON' sCwserruntihrtehelnatehasniescsauslltin

IN.: Printed mid Poinlira
STkrimaa3 O►fiCfr

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