The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-04-12 00:00:00

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rout.--T oy W ill We to watt 4 ittttg time for Ito'
praiikai cont..l4lfitc, elin t4tll you that chi4tt ratvov 01,1146 to
6i4114* long M LAVO w cent in thl rouncil,
Mc; 'Out we,LL repeated that the friends of the preigint
system in that council would never consider that it could be
fairly upon trial whilst agitation was continued, and that they
unanimously_ concurred in the resolution which he had pre-
viously expressed, that they would not date the commence-
ment of the practical working of the new system until their
opponents ceased to agitate against it both in the council and

out of doors.
Mr. PARKER said that though Mr. Alderman Evans might
consider it presumption in him to speak on this subject;
though he rode sometimes rough-shod over the council, and
possessed immense tact and talent, yet he could claim no cre-
dit as a prophet. Within a month he had said that whenever
these bigots and firebrands should appeal to the town, they
might expect a rebuff that would astonish them. An appeal
had been made since then, and on this question alone, and
proved the feeling of the town was entirely in favour, instead
of being opposed to the new system. The presence of his
friend Mr. Brassey in the council was a sufficient proof of the
fact. The only inquiry made during the canvass—if canvass
it could be called—in St. Anne's Ward was—" Are you sound
on the school question ?" That was the only test. If Mr.
Evans had come forward and moved a vote of censure upon
the committee, it would have been more candid than thus
seeking to effect that object by a side-wind ; but, like a wily
general, though defeated by the main body in the centre, he
tollows up his attack upon the right and the left wings. He
affected to think that the inspectors would put all to rights.
Did the town or the council believe that there was anything
wrong ? It would be a stigma both upon the town and the
committee if the motion was assented to. True it was that
the committee had met with great difficulties in carrying out
the plans of the council ; but these had proceeded from the
minority in the council representing the minority of the con-
stituency. The council had been told of some enlightened
men formerly on the committee ; but there were as good men
on it now ; and it was not in accordance with the rules of
decorum or courtesy to upbraid them for an alleged want of
education and intelligence. Where was the gratitude shewn
by the town to the friends of the former system ? All that
could be expelled by the constituency from the council cham-
ber had been expelled. and the few that remained would soon
be obliged to follow. Mr. Alderman Evans knew how this
discussion must end if the question was put to the vote, and.
seeing his position, it would be better for him to withdraw
his motion.
Mr. BRIGHT had listened with attention to the speech of
Mr. Parker, but had not been able to discover anything
very astonishing in it. As 'a member of the Church of
England, an unworthy member, as he had been termed by
that gentleman—
Mr. PARKER.—" I never made use of the expression."
Mr. BRIGHT protested that lie was an " unworthy mem-
ber" with as much pertinacity as honest Dogberry prayed his
friends to " write him down an ass ;"—launched into adula-
tion of the surpassing talents of Mr. Alderman Evans, whom
he was always proud to follow,
" True as the dial to the sun,
Although it be not shone upon ;"
talked about the Douay Bible, amidst the' marked impatience
of the council ;—and sate down, leaving the body, upon which
he had bestowed his tediousness, very much the wiser.
Mr. Alderman EARLE could not really see why this pro-
position should be so strongly objected against. The in-
spectors only come to see the wonders of the schools—to
give praise if praise is due, and censure if the system is in
their opinion bad, Mr. Alderman Bushell—
Mr. Busnem, disclaimed the honour of that title.
Mr. EARLE.—You look more like an alderman than I do.
The speaker continued—lt was not a common paltry parrot-
like education which they got in the old schools. The
children were not taught to repeat like a gray parrot. In the
new schools how could they wonder if a different state of
things prevailed ? Why they had chosen for their head-
master a man who couldn't write English. He had proved
it. Their press even couldn't defend the appointment of
Stone, but maintained an ominous silence. STANDARD,
Courier, and Mail were all dumb !
Mr. R. V. YATES was prepared to prove that the schools
at present were not conducted under the system laid down
by the Education Committee. Mr. Stone upsets the system
of the committee. He had made inquiry as to Mr. Stone,
and had got the facts all written down. He had not thought
it desirable at first when the disgraceful conduct of the
Education Committee had turned the great majority of the
children out of the schools to visit them ; but he had lately
called at them, and inquired as to Stone ; he had asked one
of the masters, and found that Stone only comes to the
North Corporation School twice a week for a short time.
(Order, question.)
The MAYOR here interfered, and expressed his opinion
that Mr. Yates was out of order, and that the council could
not allow the character of Mr. Stone to be thus attacked
without notice, and upon exparte evidence. The proper way
would be for Mr. Yates to make a motion upon the subject,
and give the party an opportunity of defending his conduct.
Mr. YATES thought he was speaking immediately to the
question. He was proving that inspection was required, and
had got a great quantity of evidence in his hand.
The MAYOR decided that he could not be permitted to go
on. He could make a direct motion if he chose.
Several members called for the authorities upon which
these charges were made, and upon the name of Mr. Tarff
being given up, it was mentioned that the conduct of that
individual himself was at present under the consideration of
the committee.
Mr. ROBERTSON GLADSTONE called the attention of the
council to an expression which had fallen from Mr. Yates.
What did that gentleman mean by the " disgraceful conduct"
of the Education Committtee ? Because the committee were
anxious to discharge their duty conscientiously, was that
matter of disgrace? He himself would never permit such
language to be applied to a body to which he belonged.
Mr. YATES denied that he had used the term,* amidst cries
of you did" from several members. He was ready, how-
ever, to acknowledge that lie had meant no personal offence.
Mr. GLADSTONE.—Mr. Yates should make use of such
language out of the council, and then gentlemen would know
how to reply to it.
M. YATES retracted the words, and the subject dropped.
Mr. G. 11. LAWRENCE said, if he thought the motion had
been one of peace, he should not have objected to it; but
looking at it as one of the various strategies practised by the
opposition, he should oppose it. The schools were at present
in their infancy as regarded the new system. They were in
a state of comparative disorganisation ; the masters were
untried and unacquainted with each other ; but he had no
doubt the system would succeed. Though they were not so
full as they had been, they were filling daily, and would soon
be favourable for inspection. He was satisfied that the sys-
tem was a sound, moral, and religious one ; and he hoped
that inspection would settle the public mind. He deprecated
the interference of the government inspectors. They might
come there and publish, but the corporation was capable of
managing its own affairs, though he regretted it had ever any
thing to do with education, except to encourage others to
establish schools. Yet, as it was connected with it, he would
not permit any interference. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) The
question had been forced upon the council from day to day,
until it had become a nuisance. Mr. Alderman Earle had
better, therefore, pursue his agitation out of doors. A por-
tion of the council were soon again to be tried by the con-
stituency, and the more the question was discussed amongst
them the worse for Mr. Earle's party, whilst nothing had
strengthened his opponents so much.
Mr. BOLTON said the present system was not one which
could be approved of by high and enlightened minds, and it
was absolutely necessary to agitate against it. A question
of right was never decided by numbers. The schools under
the late system had been visited and approved of by many
eminent men. The Bishop of Norwich had visited them,
and expressed his unqualified approbation of them. He
himself had wished that no obstruction to the present system
had been offered until after the midsummer holidays. He
should, however, give the present motion his support; and,
after the midsummer holidays, he should move that such a
modification of the present system should take place as
would allow the catholics to enter the schools.
Mr. PRIESTLEY recommended that the schools should be
left open for inspection. ,
Mr. J. LAWRENCE said it showed how the last speaker
attended to his duties on the committee when he did not
know that such was the case.
Mr. Alderman MOLYNEUX had never objected to inspec-
tion. It was only the other day when a very eminent gen-
tleman visiting Liverpool was desirous of going through the
schools, and he (Mr. M.) not only accorded the permission
asked for, but offered to accompany the visitor. He would,
if the inspectors of the government board made the same
request, be happy to go with them, and afford them every
information ; but he would not invite them, as they were
asked to do by this motion.
Mr. FREME must take the opportunity of explaining the
grounds upon which he should give his vote against the pro-
position of Mr. Alderman Evans. The particular system
adopted in the schools had no interest for him. He would
riot quarrel about details. He took no interest in anything
except the broad question, and was inimical to the present
motion, because he thought it was likely to throw obstacles
in the way of that question being favourably considered.
There were many persons of influence amongst the party
opposed to the late Education Committee, who were already
beginning to spew a disposition to go with them upon this
question ; and the present motion would, he was confident,
tend more to disgust such parties than to bring about any
favourable results.
Mr. Alderman Evasts said, that as no other gentleman
appeared desirous of speaking against his motion he would
briefly notice the observations which had been offered against
it. And, first, he would address himself to Mr. Nicol. He
could find nothing new in the grounds which that gentleman
urged, for all that he had brought forward had already been
before the public. The same course of argument had been
used in the columns of a local newspaper,—(the Alderman
alluded to an article which appeared in the LIVERPOOL
STANDARD of Tuesday last,)—and was wholly untenable.
For what was there derogatory to the intelligence of Liver-
pool in resorting to the advice of the Education Board upon
this question. He did not ask those gentlemen to come here
to dictate to the committee, but to inform them. That board
was a living arsenal of information ; and lie wanted the com-
mittee to have the best information and advice, and the pro-
per time for them tb have that advice was before they had
completed their system. How had the Dock Committee
done ? Why, they had consulted the best authorities in the
kingdom upon the management of their docks. They had
gone to London and consulted Mr. Hall and others, and
examined the system at the West India and St. Catherine's
Docks. And there was nothing derogatory in the Education
Committee, upon the same principle, having the advice of
the Education Board. He had no intention to obstruct the
proceedings of the committee. It had been asked of him
why the former Education Committee had not been asked
for the same inspection. He found, however, on referring
to the report in his hand, that the inspectors under the board
were not appointed until 1840.
A brief discussion ensued as to the effect of the resolution,
and the Town-clerk having declared that if carried it would
displace the original motion without its being further sub-
mitted to the vote, Mr. FREME stated, that although he
would have voted against the original motion he must also
vote against the amendment.
The council then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it
The amendment was consequently carried.
The following gentlemen voted in the division--
For the amendment—Thomas Shaw, F. Shand, R. Hough-
ton, J. Edwards, R. B. B. IL Blundell, T. Sands, E. Rae,
J. Lawrence, T. Robinson, J. Cooper, J. N. Wood, R.
Gladstone, C. Bushell, J. Proctor, R. Bright, J. Kil-
shaw, J. Parker, T. Brassey, G. H. Lawrence, S. L. Trot-
man, R. Harbord, R. Houghton, W. Nicol, J. Bramley-
Moore, E. Molyneux, R. S. Crook, and the Mayor.
Against it—W. Thornhill, W. Preston, Henry Holmes,
T. Bolton, R. Bright, J. Priestley, R. V. Yates, J. Platt,
T. Bulley, W. P. Freme, E. Evans, T. B. Barclay, and W.
Earle.
The TOWN-CLERK, on being consulted, gave it as his opi-
nion that the amendment displaced the original motion.
Mr. BUSHELL, on the part of the conservatives, intimated
their determination to bring it forward whenever any discus-
sion should be raised upon the school question.
Mr. PLATT withdrew his notice of motion—
" That a special committee be appointed to take into con-
sideration the propriety, or rather the necessity, of having
two additional schools, one on the south and the other on
the north district of the town, for the accommodation of the
lower classes, (of which the catholics form a considerable
part,) and to give them a good secular education, but no re-
ligious instruction.

*The fact that Mr. Yates did use the language in question
is denied by the Chronicle, and reiterated by the Albion,
whose reporter, however, was not present. We distinctly
heard the words alluded to, however, and took them down ;
and it was the opinion of the majority of the Council that
they had been used.