The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-07-12 00:00:00

so unjust or arbitrary that might not be justified
less the whole case was brought before the -
House at the same time, to enable a right
he formed of its value, asdeserving to direct
of proceedings in similar cases. His Lordshl
remarked upon the precedent cited by the
verpool on theprettedinrOvening, in the
terbury,. Bishop of Rochester, and contended
taking into view the whole of the proceedings in
raw, the particular point ought not to have the force,
of precedent. The Noble Berl had told them that At-'
terbury had applied for copies of certain deposition...
but had been •refused; but then it was necessary to
keep In view that the defendant, with respect to the
protieeding against him, stood in the situation of
having the whole mass of evidence before him for
which he applied, because the Bill bad gone through
the Commons, and it was not likely that new papers
hid been brought up. It was therefore necessary that
the whole of the proceedir 4s should be known, If any
were, that the House might know how far a single
point was applicable. The examination of precedents
ought. if worth any thing, to he complete. The
Noose would not he dealing fairly by itself, if it al-
lowed a citation of precedent, which would he so con-
fined as to depeive Noble Lords of the means of 'seer-
Lain* the real value of the case from which the w-
hat information was extracted. He must, therefore.
give hie vow against the motion.
The Earl HA encase said, that although all suck
measures by Mill of Attainder, and Bill of Pains and
Penalties, were different from one another in every
other r-speet, yet they all agreed in this, that in no
one instance was an application of the kind which the
petition contained agreed to. lie did not say there
might not be such a rase as would properly form an
exeeptiaa ; but then it was right that their Lordships
should loom what was the usual practice in cases par-
taking of a judicial character. lie would therefore
propose a■ aureminient to the motion, to include the
caw of impeachment, that the course with respect to
roaninusicating a list of witnesses should be known
by precedent drawn from every kind of judicial pro-

Lied Iliu.t.s,ro objected to the amendment, for the
same reasous which be bad urged against the original
biotion, and observed, that neither precedents from the
practice of the House, nor legal analogies, were to be
adopted as coin-tinier, in a ease like the present, un-
less it eo:tld he shown that they were conducive to the
cods ()Oust's... The reason of the case, and the just
treatment of it, were the paramount considerations ;
and wherever a precedent or an analogy was followed
in such a case, it was not because it was a precedent,
but because reason and the interests of justice required
its adoption.
The EArl of L tUDERDALL said, that his object in
niskiog the motion was, that the precedents ;night be
ro.lured, to give au opportunity of arguing them. It
wAs his own opinion, that • list of witnesses ought to
In furnished to her Majesty; but still the proceedings
would strike more forcibly on the public mind, if the
precedents were given. If the precedent was a bet
one, lie was sere his Noble Friend (Holland), with all
the information which he possessed on those subjects,
could effectually oppose it.
Lord Aui at.ssi agreed with his Noble Friend near
him (Lord Heliand) in his view of the question, and
would vote against the motion. Ile was sure their
Lordships wished to do substantial justke, hat they
should not have commenced In a manner unprecedented
and anomalous, and then look for precedent. It was nes
reasary that every information should be given to lane
Majesty which could serve to her defence, and the
means of information cook' nut he complete unless
list of triunes was communicated. Their Lordships

sailit sillier to hare one regnlstr and precise abode of
pruceeding whkh they could all understand and be
bouod by, or else they should be guided by the cir-
cumstances of the case, considering only how far the
proceeding applied to them was compatible with the
spirit of * just investigation.
The House thou divided upon the amendment—
Contests
Non-Contents -
Majority for the motion es amended - —8

The Heise ales adjourhed to this day.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, TLISDAT, JOLT 11.
Oolosel Woetnocen brought op the Report of the
Select Committee appointed to inquire into the merits
of a petition, complaining of an undue election for the
borough of Oraethant, which stated, that James
Hughes. Beg. was not dnly returned.
The !Oxman was directed to issue a new writ ac-
cordingly for that borough.
Colonel Wonanouas then brought up a special Re-
port froin the same Committee, which stated, that
James Hughes, Esq. had been bound guilty of treating,
sad bad given several sums of money to raters by way
of indemnity for expenses, which incapacitated him,
ac:ordiug to the Statute of William 111. frouseorring
in Fir;lament, such a practice being subtend,* of tw
fro colons of election. "T4'
Df. Pntu.o oar gape notice or a reassess= am sow
• **Sort for to-morrow (this day).
' UPPER CANADA.—Sir J. MAcstrurose saki, hit
lad a petition to present from Mr. Robert (Marley, a
Bcceit Gentleman, who had settled himself in Upper
Callieda. The matter of the petition was two-fold,
=I and public. Under the first part of the pe-
lt appeared that there was a local Act ig Upper
the provisions of which wont even further
Asa those of the Alien Bill. They allowed the Go-
yim* of the province to banish out of the piorince
iialips= who was sot • settled inhabitant of the
making no distinction between natural born
others; and Imposing heavy penalties for
• Under this law, Mr. Gourley, who
me that his Alai bad been much oleander-
!Pidteniustaiitted, bad been imprisoned and finally
ant Set of the reentry. He hardly knew whether
Hein was ft this Emitter tot a motion in the House,
elites k-wmr considered drat the law' la question was
se • ire, dostert• the attention of the British
At Io the psi& matter of the petition,
Mi iniessitelldweiteek ellitrietioes on landed trimrtrty,
Wag tends/ to reedit that provisos till to hi as
Albs Arils !Weigel talsibltants of this country,
NI 'Ohl& lives otherwise moo suitable. le the opi-
eke of lhoillelleser. dos soy other grislier of the,
=l, ne(gltl. M.) woad lot absolutely pledge
Is Meg this object before the House by a

. of
..-
Lord Bissitto said, the case bad beers ender con-
sideration.

OPHTHALMIC INSTITUTION.—Mr. BENNET
amid ha had to correct a osisreprrientation %hit+ af-

fected himself, and which had appeared in a Paper
otherwise very respectable, The .11uraing l'Arueark.—
He was surprised this morning to find a long speech
attributed to his Hon. Friend the Member for Cork
(who had only uttered two or three sentences, and not
one word of what was attributed to bile), on the Oph-
thalmic Institution. It was stated in that speech, that
lie (Mr. Bennet), bad declared that the statement
whirls he had made on a former occasion was erroneous.

lie should not have allowed his Hon. friend to have
made such an assertion without cut reefing him. He
had etracted any statement rrspec:ing Sir W.
Adams's plan of treatment, becalm he had never given
any opinion on a matter of which hr was an Invest-
petent judge. lie had merely stated un a former oc-1
casion what was perfectly correct, that there was
difference between medical anth•aritirs as to Sir W.
Adams's plan. He had stated yesterday, that he had
visited the Ophthalmic Institution; that he had seen
WI patients ; that of these three only plained; aid
that he was induced to think, by the explanation of
the Surgeon of the institution, an intelligent young
man, that their complaints were errowous.

Mr. lieNstay moved for an account of the number
of persons confined in the Fleet fur contempt under
Exchequer process.
• PRIVILEtiE.—Mr. R. MARTIN said, he had on a
former occasion mentioned to the House, what appear-
ed to him to be a wilfnl tnitrepresentation of what he
had said, in The Morning flereld.—lle had at that time
expressed a hope, that the person who reported for
that paper, would not tronble himself to report what
he (Mr. M.) said in future, a,:d that if be did, he
would do it correctly. lie hail applied to the person
who had thus misrepresented him, who mitl him in A
supercilious way, he was ready to give him any satis-
faction that a gentleman could demand. lie (Mr. M.)
had declined this trial by battle, whereupon this per-
son said, " you shall have no cause fur complaint in
future, for tee shall never report any thing you say."
He was sorry this determination haul been departed
from, fur in The Morning Henri,' of that day, he saw
sentiments attributed to him which could only come,
frotn.the inhabitant of an asylum for ideots. The ac-1
count given of this speech was this Mr. Martin)
(of lialway), compared the opposition Gentlemeu who
were attacking the Ministers for the purpose af getting
into their places, to a big-bellied hackney coachman
whom he once met in Paris, who spoke in the most
disrespectful terms of the King of France, and said he
himself would make a better King if put in his place."
lie moved, that J. Robeson and T. P. lilaisingtutt, the j
printer and publisher of The Aforniv Heteld, do at- I
tend the House on Friday.—Orderrvl.

The Irish Fisheries, the Naval Prize Money, the
Royal Ramily, and the Irish Excise Licenses Bills, were
severally read a third time and passed.
PETITION.—Mr. lixxszz presented a petition
from John Drake, the Cominander of a transport for
the conveyance of convicts to New South Wales. The
[ease of the petitioner was this :—ln the course of the
voyage a mutiny arose in the ship, in consequeNce of
which the guard fired on the convicts, II or 12 of
' whom died in consequence. When he arrived at New
South Wales, he had been treated ignominiously by
the tiovernor. His condnet hail been inquired into by
a Commission, consisting of the Police Magistrate,
the Judge Advocate, and the Governor's Secretary.—
Though the Comn.ission decided that there wos uo
ground for proceedings, the llovernor'■ Secretary hay-
ing dissented from their decision, and having had the
ear of the Ouvernor, Captain Drake was sent home to
take his trial, with three convicts, who received' a free
pardon to give evidence against him (lone of whom had
since been hanged, and two transported for new crimes).
On the trial It was declared by the Judge' that !Isere
was not a scintilla of evidenCe in support of the prose-
cution. Captain Drake had, by 'these proceedings,
been put to an expense of 7001., for which he haul only
received 2901. compensation from the tiovernment, but
what he especially complained of was, that he had bees
refused the sum which was allowed for taking out the
convicts safe, to obtain which, it was necessary to hate
the certificates of the Surgeon, the Trat..port Board,
and the tiovernors. The certificates of the two former
he had, but Governor Macquarrie refused his. Bewared
that the petition be brought up.
Mr. flocinoalt contended, that under the einem-
stanc.,s of the ease, Governor Mariptarrie had no dis-
cretion. but was obliged to send home Captain Drake
for trial. As to the sus paid when prisoners were sately
landed It New &filth Wales, it was 'widest that the
question, whether this sum should be paid, was eery
different from that, whether Captain Drake bad bees
guilty of murder.

Mr. Ilrx ysr contended that there was not the slight-
est ground of blame against Captain Drake.
A discussion arose as to the regularity of receiving
the petition, which was finally laid on the Table.
Dr. Pumustoas presented a petition from A. Jar-
vis, expressing his contrition for his offence.—ile was
ordered to be brought up to-morrow to be discharged.
QUERN'S COUNSEL
Mr. autpuoosm said, tbat there were twe Standing
Orals the Hesse, whirls prohibited the attendance
of its as Counsel in the Home of Leeds. Om
of sheds the attendance of ambers at the
liar 4 of Lords on Appeals sod Writs of
&reg, the referred to Sahli press through
thS tipper Hersh MOW slate 1710, the Medias lir-
ders se hr as asepested law proceedings, higmbildis.l
reiparded. as 1611116110 of the Home were hil
the Iseattirklibeg on limb badness as *dem the'
slier . Wlthirespert I. Bills is proves. Ulla
*her . the. cu bad hers different; the Stash
lag Order of dee-Wens lied hots attended to. It seas
manifestly a senresiesee to the Members of:
g Noose, that ainsM net he liable to be called
'to attend ei all Milk es they might be if they attended
elef Mlia
Ml is by the ethwasee se essential- to the mho.
deesesesi so are 'meld rem a brief is the
Vogyl. Asi prosibmls mg the Order was
essibi se me ref a lailetscieg the

14' f ! '

no Obey of Lee Hoiessiold, the effect of the Bill at the
sainsalase being to prevent her from ever having and
Honiehold. The other high party concerned had in that
House his Ministers and the Officers of his Household,
while her Majesty had no owe in the situation of a be-
minee in an Election Usemittoe,liartly Advocate, porde
Judge. He should move, therefore, that the Wads
Attorney. and Solicitor-flesseals he allowed to Masud the
House of lords on the Bill now pending reepeetkAreher
Majesty. He had to state, that if that ha
he coold not at all anticipate, that the Kitrrit'ould come
down from that House, they (the Queen's Counsel)
would have to request not to be permitted to vote on it.
He wished the permission to auend the Lormli to be li-
mited to the particular Bill, and accompanied with a de-
claration, that it should no wise be drawn into precedent.
Lord eAaTIARILAOII snggested that notice should he
given of the motion, that tuna might be had for AlM-
bees to turn the subject in their minds.
Mr. Knot:alum said, he bad imagined this application
would have been treated as a matter of course. Indeed
if it was not, no Member could attend the Lords
on writs of error, which was equally contrary to the
Standing Order. If his application were refused, he
should move that the Standing Order in the case of all
Conoael Members of the House.

Mr. IVram said, there was a difference in the two ori-
ginal Resolutions containing the Standing Orders; one
of them prohibiting Members from attending the House
of Lords without leave, the other containing a prohibi-
tion without any mention of leave.. lie thought, under
all the circumstances of the present case, the application
should he granted.
Mr. linnuouto hoped he should not be required to
postpone his motion beyond to-morrow (this day).
After a few words between Mr. WYNN *lid Mr.
B11101:41111.31.
Lord CASTLERIAGN said, he wished it to be under-
stood that he saw no objection to the application, but
;visited time to consider it, as the Standing Orders were
quite new to him.—Notiee for to-morrow (this day).
Sir F. BURDETT observed, that the King's Attorney-
fieneral, who had been ordered to attend the Lords, was
is the *Ante situation as the Queen's Counsel.
EDUCATION BILL—Mr. Bsovonam brought in
the Education Bill, which was rend • first time. On
moving that it be read • second time, Mr. Bessibans
said that he sighed to have the blanks filled op Wore

ssy, that
under the
means of
The barrack
in any erection
doubt preened

opp?rtuaity
a wish that

e his motion.
r thought it incumbent
pronottnee some decision upon
&direct attempt to supersede its
no disposition whatever to act
of the Barrack Department, he
ply with the Right Hon. lientlanale
his motion.
The "trauma of the EICIIMQVIM
stood that the Inspector of the Barrack
had some communications with the '
sury with respect to the con►truction
alluded to.
Notice was entered of Mr
morrow.

Colonel Dims postponed his ,
the victualling of troops, convicts
lonies.
SIR MANASS RH LOPRZ.—Lord J.
pursuant to notice, to move an Address
for shortening the imprisonment of Sir SI
Noble Lord, In proposing to recomiuead
of mercy to this Gentleman, disclaimed
whatever to impeach the sentence
tation upon the Judges. The
pleaded for a mitigation of the
Sir M. Lopes wakat present far a...
about 64 years of age, and imprisonment
period as two years must he deemed a
fiction upon such a man, comprehending
least one-fifth of the time that -
expected to remain in existence.
had also paid Ten Thousand Pounds
be considered that from the
Cornwall Boroughs, as well as
which that practice was talked
mot improbable that the prisoner's
have been misled, and that instead
ware guilty, he should rather
frithan others. Having '
ntsorynths in prison, he submit., cue
he has stated, the prisoner was &proper ehject
clemency of the Crown. The Noble Lord co
with moving an Address to the Throne, proving
his Majesty would be graciously pleased to ;bonnie
period of Sir 111. Lopes's imprisonment, in met
- his

1
.....- i -I , 4- ~ AL ^...."4- Ant— 40-
THE STATESSiAN -„,
..__oa.' i,
-Au - — .4,- flielZar lli A * 1..
ustifted : un- motion for a COmtrittett in Ole neneSes'ions hit if ;lee If Members ea* Private Bills, the door being, in the understood hint to as!
r view of the brought tim subject of i'artail under consideration, it opinion of witty, quite wide enough opin to that Iti‘toff racks was of course c
judgment to would be with a view to the examination of these re-
a influence. The proposition be had now to make was by which alone the
vet the course arrietions.—Ordered to lie on the table.
la respect to the case of a Hill now pending in the could be furnished. 1
Lords. He should propose that an exception should be tulle aware of this i
ordship then Sir J. Mseatwrosti moved, that the petition of Sir made front the Standing Order with respect to this Hill, touic, and would no de
to Earl of Li- H. Dorringtoo be printed, and suggested the considera- in behalf of the Queen's two Law Officers. This appli- in order to afford an ,
ease of At- Hon of this gentleman's case to Cie Hoard of Controul cation was rendered necessary by the situation in which subject, he expressed
nded that by or the Court of Directors of the India Compile,. her Majestr was placed by the Introduction of the Bill her would postpone hi
at... ;,,, Are Lord BINNING said_ the ease bad been under con- , into . the other House, where else had no Law Officers and , Mr. CA LCRAFT thou'
..• • • -a •N__. -• .1-- 411111 _..t_ - .. .. .. ..... .. .tit_

Ifi ll
• #
the I►ting7ese
1114114
le controul of Parham,.
of defraying the
rack drilartinent wog
rectiou they at 41..:
reed with due canasta" •
nity for ingniry
hat the llonouraM
ncumbent on the Row. hi
10 this affair, as it inie'ri
its functions. Bat Da
t harshly towards theami
e had no ohjectios to sub
dentate. wish ID pipe
KCHEQVICR said. hush, •
t Barrack Dept/twit 114
eh' the Lords of the Tres.
struction of the Mims
r. CALCILIPTII motive to
his motion with
ricts and others
.—Lord J. Rresauto,
to Address to the Carl
cut of Sir IL Lopez
.ecoutitiend the elm..
Reclaimed any intim%
race or to cast any isp
'be considerations did
te sentence were thee.
far advanced is life, bang
impri‘onment for saris
deemed a very severe is.
nprrhending as it did, at
,1 he could naturally le
ce. Sir Manasseh Up
Pounds line. It witab, j.
e general practice is the t
as from the amut,
dof in that flout j,
1011eT.11 jedgmest Shia
ostrad of Wig
er be coadiend tet
thea bees already artily
itteel, that oil the greeds