The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-03-29 00:00:00

to resist i..
ple—Olear.) . •
Mr. HUME sai.l, be bad always noderstood thatO
was the righted 'the people of thai country to petition
Parliament. and he Lad yet to learn that it is as the right
of that House to reject those Petitions without having
them heard. If, upon their Wog read, there appeared
to he objectionable language, they might be rejered.—
The Petition be had to present was from the Mayor and
Conine:malty of the Town and Borough of Monmouth.
It stated that, in their opinion. the salvation of the coun-
try &pealed on a Reform in the House of Commons.
toil that without this the liberties of the people, already
in a lingering state, would be overwhelmed. The Pett-
goners also stated, that they were aware that petitions
of this nature did not meet with the attention which
they thought they deserved, from those who called them-
selves the Representatives of the People. They con-
eluded by stating, that they joined the already countless
number of their countrymen to praying for a speedy and I
effectual Reform of the House of Commons. Ili(Mr.
Hume) most cordially joined in this prayer, and was
convinced that in spite of all their temporizing that R•-
farm must come at last. lie moved that the Petition be
brought qp.
Lord G.SOMERSET did not think there was any
thing objectionable to the Petition in point of language.
but be must say that lie did not think it was the Pennon
of the Mayor awl Comnionalty of Moomoutb.
Mr. GOURTENAY rote to second the motion of the
Hon. Member for Aberdeen. that the petition be brought
up. He did this, in order to pant:out the manifest dlr.
ferenct betwixt it and that which Hoe Hots. bad reject-
'ad, in the laugnage.—(Hear.)—lf that Hon. Member
could not see the difference, be (Mr. Courtenay) was at
a loss to understand why, even in his opinion, it was so
palpable. lie could not help remarking, however. that
after they bad beard the objectionable lauguage read by
the Member p o ling the petition, it was not quite fair
reasoning to argue, that the petition bad been rejected
without being heard read. That, be apprehended,
was quite sufficient ground for the House to express an
opinion whether or no the petition was of a nature to be
received. The greatest enemies to the right of petition-
ing were those who advocate the indulgence in the most
licentious language. This petition was of a different
nature in language, and therefore he supported the mo-
tion for its being received.
Mr. BENNET contended that the only test by
which a petition presented to that House was to be tried
was, whether it was presented for the purpose of insult,
or for the, purpose of exposing a grievance, and praying
for redress. Trying it by that test, there could be no
obiection to the Petition which Lad just been rejected.
Woe out by stating that the Petitioners had uo wish to
insult the House. Gould any one doubt that the late
Mr. Punsonby had used the expression imputed to him ?
If any one did, be was ready to prove it at the bar of
the these io five minutes; and if any one doubted the
fact that the Parliament of 1105 was corruptly con-
strutted, lie would only ask to have one of the Secre-
taries to the Treasury of that period at the Bar to prove
it also. That House must be reformed sooner or later ;
and he must say that be agreed with Lord Chatham.
that if it did not reform itself, it would be reformed from
without with a vengeance.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, he had given his vote for.the
acceptance of the Petition, upon the broad principle that
the House should hear theerontents of a Petition before
it decided upon receiving or rejecting it. That. lie
thought, the House was at least bound to do, in the ex-
ercise of so severe a power. A judgment could nut be
formed on a eiogift pamage ; and, probably, had the
coolest of the. Pftte,Lloesi reeo,4lweal9 out Lave Iva.
rejected.
Sir It. WILSON explained.
Mr. DICKINSON said, it was the hnsioesl of a Mem-
ber to open to the House the contents of a Petition before
he moved for its reception; and upon that the House was
competent to decide, whether tit-Petition should or
should ,not be received. The scandalous assertion that
the House was filled with boys was sufficient to justify
its rejection.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY coincided in the opinion ex-
pressed by his lion. Friend near him (Sir .1. Newport)
as to the principle of receiving or rejecting Petitions.
Mr. Alderman WOOD thought the House had inisno-
derstood the contents of the Petition in question, inas-
much as that it did not state the objectionable part abon.
boys, &e., as their own sentiments, but as having been
spoken by a Mr. Spooner, at Worcester.
The Petition was then read.
Mr. HUME, iu moving that the Petition be laid on
the table, begged to state, in opposition to the statement
of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord G. Somerset), that this
was not the Petition of the Mayor and Commonalty of I
the Town and Borough of Monmouth ,• lie positively de-
clared, that al.hough none of the Noble Lord's support-
ers might be among the Petitioners, that it was signed
by the lets Mayor, the Bailiff, and many of the Bur-
gesses.
Gerd G. SOMERSET did not mean to cast any impu-
tations on the persons who had signed this Petition, but
ha shoul.l not do his duty to the inhabitants of that
respectable town, if he did not bay, that to his know-
ledge, lie did not perceive the name of any one of the
respectable persons alh.ted to the Petition.
The Petition was laid on the table, and ordered to be
printed.
The lion. G. LAM Et presented a Petition complait:ing
of Agricultural Distrest from Manley.

IRELAND.
Mr. S. RICE took the opportunity of stating, with re-
ference to papers moved for and then ou the tat.. , eels-
tire to the state of Ireland, that there were two points
greatly complained of, with reference to the management
of public business in that country. The one was, that
there was considerable delay in making returns to the
orders of that house, and the other, that the peasantry.
of the -co nntry were elhargeJ with the expense of makiog
them oat. In his opinion.the public ofmes were hound
to furnish papers to that House without any charge:
But it would be seen by the records that the exactions
for such expenses on the people of Ireland amounted to
from three to tire thousand pounds a.year. He. hoped
the simple mention of this would cause an end to be pat
wolf practice. The Returns to which be referred them
on the table were respecting the Spirit Licences, and
the amount of Malt Duty: by which it would he seen,
that the relief to Ireland from the remission of the Malt
Duty was not equal to what had been anticipated by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. Great abuses atill pre-
vailed as to the spirit licences, and he thought the whole
system must be revised. Ile moved time the Returns be
printed.

thisght"
Ilene!, who, on a fall ceasid- erstiem—pitoily of
Act of Parliament, but of corempeadeace on which
that Act was teaseled. &slaved then-Obis-gesvommena•
was not precluded from may new arranpaseat. He in-
, treated the Right Hon. Gentlemae, therefore. as a tow
dian of the pablic Interests, not to KISS ro
Tugs of the Bank, but to refer the subjesit tette exaodeird,
by a Committee. Ile suggested, too, that some plan
should be adopted to make the balance of four millions
available to the elublic. He bad no doubt that not lees
ithis 200,000/. a-year might and ought to be aimed is the
transactions with the Bank.
A IiENTLIIMAN ander the Gallery (whose mine
Iwo could sot learn) asked theChaneellor of the Exch.-
' goer whether there was any intectioa of publishing the
statement of unclaimed dividends. which had sot sow
appeared for some dale ?
The UHANCELLOK of the EXCHEQUER was not
prepared to mate without making as inquiry.—Or-
dered.
Lord A. HAMILTON moved for ss Account of the
Produce ef the roar-and-sixpenny Duties on. Houses
tooter 51. rent in Scathed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
object to the mottos, but said, be steuld oppose any re•
mission of the Tae.--Ordcred.
Lord A. HAMILTON moved for a cetera of the total '
amount of the duty of 48.61. upon houses of less yearly
rent than 51. in Scotland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had 89
objection to the' retina, but should resist any remission
of the duty.
Oa t!.e motion of Mr. GRENFELL, certain returns
on the table of the gold and silver coin is the kingdom
were ordered to be printed. The Hon. Gentleman ob-
served. that the gold bad not been drives oat of the
country by the silver, as had iu some quarters been pre-
dicted.
lIIDDLItSiX COURT 011 CONSCISNCE.
Mr. LENNARD wished to call the attention of the
!louse to a subject which he considered of importance,
es it materially affected the labouriog classes is the
county of Middlesex. Ile wished to bring before them
the state of the County Court of Conscience. From
papers which he had moved for in a former year, it ap-
peered that the number of causes annually decided in
this court, bad been about 17 thousand. Last year,
he believed, that there was an lunatic, and that
the total number was scaly 18 thousand. Two days
in each week were given to the hearing of them, and
than it would be seen that there were 180 to be disposed
iof in each day. In coosequence,.it often happened, that
persons were kept in waiting from nine in the morning'
till five in the laicisation, sod from the regulations acted
upon, a person living eight or nine miles off, might fr
quently have to travel that distance four or five day**
and thus in fact, lore so many days to recover a debt of
fifteen or twecty shillings. He had no charge to woks
against the individual who presided over that Ceswe
Much to his credit be 'had reduced the fees since he bad
been in office, but dui person who had last held that sites-1
tioa had considerable augmeoted them, and as this
might be done again it was proper that the Constitution
of the Court should be looked into. The fees mei,'
from the county clerk's own statement amounted an,
ally to about 2,1001. Out of this he had to pay the
peaces of the Establiabment, taxer, stationery, and
officers employed ander him.lieducting 5001.
charges, and he could not suppose them to amount s.
more, it would leave the prieeipat -an income of 1,5001.
or 1.6001. per annum. For this merlin ha thought '
halos of the office onglit to be performed is a way tle,.
shouts completely answer the purpose originally intend-
ed. He thought it strange, that during tbe2s years the
I ateelerk held the si tuation.no account ofunclaine ednosiey
had ever been given, as from a variety of eircumetesces
be should have expected that considerable sums would
be left at different times in the hands of the Court. It
bad been arranged by the late Clerk, that persons bar-
ing money to receive from the Court should apply for it
between the bouts of ten and two on one day in the
week—Monday. The consequence was, on that day a
vast crowd assembled, and persons frequently went two
or three times without being able to °lndio these money.
If a Committee were granted, he would suggest the ex-
pediehey of allowing suitors to apply fee their money
any day in the week. With the number of cases that DOW
frequently came before the Court in one day, it was really
but a mockery of justice to pretend to dispose of them.
He therefore hoped that the Returns made to a former
Order of the House on this subject should be referred to
a Committee to be appointed for the purpose ofinquiring
if the amount of the present fees might not be diminished,
and also to inquire Into the xpediency of the County
Clerk's sitting oftener than once a week is the Hundred
of Ossulston, and of increasing the number of sittings in
other Hundreilsin the County of Middlesex.
Mr. BERNAL was sorry to differ from the Hon.
Gentleman, and thought it rather bard on the county
clerk, against whom no charge was preferred, that the
subject should be brought forward as it had been. No
complaint had been preferred against this Gentleman
during the three years he had filled this situation, and
lie had to state that lie had disbursed not less
than tun thousand pounds out of his own
pocket to provide a suitable building for the purpose—
the present—Court of Conscience, in Kingsgate-street.
He, therefore, thought it rather unfair, that his emo-
luments should be called in question. To him it app.
peered that the subject could only he properly brought
forward on a Petition. He thought there were DO
grounds for the minim
Mr. 0. BENNET supported the motion, though the
Hon. Member had not adopted the most prudent course
of bringing the question before the House. He consi-
dered there was sufficient ground shown for inquiry.—
He would beg. to Issiew if the situation of the Mite( al-
eer bad not been bought and sold. or what right the
Sheriffs of London bad to make sums of money by the
disposal of it, as it was reported that they had done?—
He regretted that his Hon. Friend bad not taken an-
' other course. Ile should have brought in a Bill to regn-
iate the Court, which would have been the most effec-
tual mode. it was said th it
the assistance of three Jurymen. Ile bad seen them,
lead they appeared to look more like convicts than men
competent to serve on Juries, and far different from the
description of persons who were imagined suitable for
such a duty.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL opposed the motion.
He did not think there was any case made out for Par-
liamentary interference. The constitution of times
Courts even had the support of the best law authorities
—in particular the commendation of Sle. Justice Black*
stone. The Learned Gentleman It length defended the
practice of the Courts, and the form adopted by the pew
sent Chief Officer. He praised the superintendence of
Mr. Heath. and concluded by giving a decided negative
to the motion.
Mr. LENNARD then replied, and said, that findior
the sense of the House agaisst him. he should not press
his motion. Ile could nut, ho.. ever, help observing.
that an itulividna:, who was in bad health at the time,
had offered five years' purchase, or 10,000:. for the ai-
-1 tuition.
After aleyrordsfrom Mr.W. Entre, 51r. P. Monne,
and Mr:IV. Cot; the question was put, and the
'motion negatived without a division.
The Irish Five per Cents. Gill went through a Com-

414 ad 4,---"r""'Illi los
to•aertelr.
__ 8i11... essil
edseaday um. I al"
eTALISTI6

M SMITH !ishOil-io ask the Riot
Hosourable Hindmost opposite. wily no pan of the
twiner which bad last veer bees voted for the Americas
-toyagem Ladle' bees itaid ? After 30 years*. Wiens-
tion, they bad been allowed 10s. ia the Ismail; but ist
is. limbyet been paid.
The CHANCELLOR of die EXCHEQUER mid, the
money was issued at mire; but others bad maw Islowa
with claims, as valid as ilmme of the list which bait";
before the hams; and the &lee had hoes ocessieold
the difficulty ofasosetainiegmuo wan really @Wei%
the mosey.
weitellareiaWcke.HA.n(X)rNoUcioßirestiT:olsodboH ofltist:eixisseritstas.mtauthatum;
'Hilt very considerable rains had .beou takes, bog
bad been found muy difhiali to proceed. If Sly es,
stepped out of Ask* wisipli.bod beim beton the hook
it would be eztremely diffiffidt to find a limit Unhooks.
Mr. W. SMITH said. the claims bad bees knot
forward by those who related to embark is Mo
course with others ; but who. in ronsejamice of the it.
der of the house. had again tome forward with titsie

•
111CPTLT.
Oa the question that the report of the ordinate @L:,
mates be brought op. • '
Mr. tiRENEELL wished to rensisa theboare, Sato
Tangy
distinct pledge bad been given last ,thao saki wki
Ercbases of stores shed 00. thee s TOW corm.
• had received ieformatioa, for the shica ,
'weilld not be answitableo that sin thel penal ooi,,
tracts to db inconsiderable matter bad beta 4164b7
(private biddi or.
Mr. R. WARD said, that is *Di case oak, sidihetto
a coosiderable ansonot, bail • mits, Ifiesi h00**,,,4
by private contract, to Messrs. Cra y and,CL ..Too,
was, that there was MA a ie dos auript
meson
large a quantity of iron, chordate tiny tail
Mt get such good terms by pablis mil as by pave
woutrad.
Sir ULYSSES BURGH maintained that die BHA
"Inas I. be left to he owe disc recipe in melt mama
a eon% I.gygo sung the idea that the lead of
Ordiatee " to its owe diserstiee, idele et
ether Boards were _ to consult weary. The
principle of private be thought Melly oejec.
tio sable.
Mr. R. WARD explained.
After a few words from Mr. W. Surer, Be Ihma
Bettor, and Colonel tioeserr. die Bard vol waned
to be received.
On the motion fir it. being read,
Mr. °RESPELL again spoke agaiest the.prietiyia of
private bidding in the ease of old stores.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER aid i;
was agreed, on all hands, that public comprffilee wei
the best mode; bat he knew of se la dam to
bind the diacretion of the Hoard is the ale ef sit
stoves.
Sir J. NEWPORT contended that fly me
contract was not the rule, but the exceptise. Tim Gal.
lent Officer opposite (Sir U. Burgh) unease We led
*o stating that sales ought table at the aole *credos of
• Board.

Upon
Military
Mr. HUME contended, that the apariefillq*
ie popertioo to the utility of the eel, aeloweds
redaction to 10,2401.
Mr. F. PALMER supported the emseethosel.
Lord PALMERSTON defooded the mediessit
as being conducted upon as asmoial a ads NI
possible.
Mr. F. PALMER explained.
Mr. HUME remarked open the dispropottion of tie
utility of the school in respect to its expense.
Sir H. HA RLHNOE supported the resolution,aal '44
the Hon. Member for Aberdeen bad on a forweroceuios
made an egregious mistake in the number of rude'
educated in the Military College. The Llossersl:4
Member stated the number of cadets at 1761, sod iteat
he male a mistake of no less than 1300.--(1100,bco)
He (Sir H. Hardinge) could easily nceoint for the sa-
ner in which the Hon. Oentleraan fell into that
In looking over the returns of the number in the CAM
each year, for five years past, the Hon. Metshersdad
them altogether. Finding, for instance, 370 is Iks Cs:"
lege, in 1917, the same number, or thereabouts. is 13A
&c.. the lion. Member pia them altogether, aed tes:kr
granted there were 1764; forgetting that fear yawn's
required for the education of each clue. Bet thr fact
was, that the number educated is that period iris Y 7
450 cadets. Those misstatements of the Hon. Veer.
if confined to that house could be weeded with sear
effects • but they went forth to the couowy,sed visa
culatetito do a great deal of mischief. the Ka. Neil.
bet's statement that there were 1764 csaets to 6.30'
tary College io 1817, ISIS, 1919, ke2o, sod ISM, ins
jest as reasonable as if be were to say, that became thee
were 65S that year, therefore there were three thoaaal
two hundred and ninety members in five years.—("
hear, and a laugh.)
Mr. HUME said that he would repeat what he bed
said on that subject, when the vote was before &Com-
mittee. He would mai mai* jbat the College cost. 1.101
1816, the sem of I 13.2906;wed. eve of the nodes
cadets educated during that period. @elf Id° had td°
t
eommissions, so that the education of 160 ofberry c
the country 115480/. He objected toast efcratiotv.ef.
more cadets than there could be commissises prowled
for.
The House then divided on the austualost• 114
clambers were—

mbers were—
Ayes, 15—1'0e5,35-51ajority against it,lo.
The original Resolution was then aenit°.
31r. HUM moved a reduction o r 10.091 f. to
E
tY
Grant of 35,0001. for the 31asterGeners1 of the 04
mance Establishment, and a redaction g
'wing the amount of Pay to the Dire
ent, rea
ntril•
Surgeon-General of the Medical Establishm
useless offices.
Sir U. BURGH opposeJ the Amendment.
Mr. H. WARD Ita!Pd the services of Sit .I.*'"
and contended the Grant was not eremite, s.l
fe
fore trusted the House would reject the Antrt.Jarr,:.
Mr. 11. D.IVIIN supwiried use Amendment.
Mr. T. WILSON declared be should voce for tbeso,
gins T! qnv,tion.
he Amendment was then negatived ni:h.ist testi:

The other Resolutions were agreed to
,3
The other Orders of the MT were then
sod the Howie aujouroed it .drePo o'cbck.

Mr. Williams, the Barrister, was ss:3""3"IS;
day iast, for Lincoln, vrithont opposition, in the to
of the late Col. Sibtbore.

Tax stATlgi. Al!• •
i;y:irsald see tba(t.he. not pail& if itkirifat
s litirer4 opinion trtvtroll e Witter. tba
f door* to use the lieges/it **hided-to is whit theism was stated to f bsofts* ht hes isto furthaet
em mesideratian
tit that is no oacwithin tho wags that it s'm el* lad bees properly teL tie The Scotch &rids' Atesuats
mold *the consistent 'with order mot eleirMet wthilJ ban bees. different 3 arid Ldlad As Uri ilea', red committed fir Wmisek
is a cderve thus masifeatty ol us usozio to lb. a Lawyer, who could sever be sieelioned without res Mr. WILLIAM &MaSMITi CAN *ASA
vial
uM.lk • . or dosses! offwitimist a regret. Ihm.lsto -Ihimosami- H
t .n.e.• I maw 0, Oaf eh. Helmon& Goetkmam memite.

non
,„d the Boar . .
~
lIIMIRIDIM
Mr. R. WARD and Sir U. Silo's' ' te es
Boa
ex. It was then agreed tbakthe " Wadi, sat ten-
the tel Besoletions were agreed to .
RiliFo6,
f„ On the vote of 5,6174 he VP- 4 eidsdisiat.t-
dto mot.
ow. Mr. HUME tioragM are addleitiblisr4 isiciot,ssi
the 'fit i• lw!rr dew P1PM4.114W4
am .s 1 iiirordoesse e i -
,„,d. Mr. WARD did '
the dome meant bptho _ .
eie,, ne such board.
ores Upon that ter granting lOW. for didilltßOW
mid 31ilitary Colley@ at Sandbant,
.. • ;.„ ; __l