The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-04-23 00:00:00

•
e•tion of Parlianaentaey Reform. Not that there were
nt those present who dissented from it, for there were
some Gentlemen of great consideration, amongst whom
7.9 a the very respectable Member for the county (Mr.
Stuart Wortley), who held up their hands againstlt ; but
at-there were at the lowest computation more than ten
times as
,tnanv prpselt as at cola and aa.ainoust
ttfese 'igen. urpoirel. so
. Wye d'issentiints,*e fietairmsli-
eil 'dr file •peNtfirtirtiaii that the petition *poke the unani-
neolasmate-tif-the - lerinee-WrOV triiisirviifg- eitiMes of the
c,luillt._, ,41g ors strutting., Mort 4.o4lutirtf (i. the num.
ollt,Platristprea to this petition, It wig* he well to see
wit* tke total number of fteeluildere lu the county
ningented to. About :sixteen years ,ogre, a contested
elygliep lOol; place for Yorkshire, and mow efforts were
rweedtobring a force into the field on either side, after
seprehing every part of the .ennoty. and sectoring all the
Mika ,st, London far Yorliiidre freelu '
aders the whole
nitimiher Polled was ?.:1,10. Time number of freeholders
signedae tbis petjtjou was 17,40.--(ear,hear)--wliiiit;
"P. 4 inventOiinventcalculation, waatwo-thirde9lthe whole
*nasty, though he (Lord Milton) was ihelinedio,tbinti it
Sea; more. • The greatest care had beep token to 'seismic
alltimbriivere not:bona jide freeholders, aid Onseqnently
they; was no name to which the ,addresi and. property
vrtn net anneied, He Lai himself loolteel theougli this
born, petition,ond he would %eke upon hicnielf to say,
thac,lbero were not fifty signatntes to which anyexcep-
tienso. dbe taken; of these two had eigned.aa trustees.
whit, n ham would not be allowed to vetsiAt an elec.
ligperq. eme from the county . of the city 0,4401, which,
leg4y,,speahltfigi was not put of Yosksiiimmi and five or
silk Ants whosbelongee to p.bst sex which is not mach
in time Wadi Of interfering in these matter/4—(A ten s.)
AR tip. rest; were valuable, aa they were tutmeeftli ormhith
.Apto„ilre prayer of the petition, he (Lartl24p) trig' only
say.,h entirely concurred in it. Ile liadrertainlY enter-
effainl► o different opinion once, and bad -ones: rir toile
vo• against Parliameotary Reforai.,"bat Ise; 0(44,0
now Fonsrientiously. that he was made a !apse!! to
cou'ittbEthe proceopiugs of this Goose.---(Cheers.).ille
Noblitirerd also stated that he was influenced us become
ai edentate fir Reform, by the example of Men ter whom
belied On L!gbest respect.. It might,
.perhape,• be ex-
pected that he should staie what the exact views of the
petittionems. were, -isms thin•qttration, of Parliamentary
Refotrui , He should say, that they prayed kr a Reform
gsvniecally. leaviorit to those 09 wow bether able to.
judgc what particular mode of Reform theyemborrld adept.
And he could not but congratulate the petitioners upon
the • n isolum of this eourse.—(Hear.) The : =tent. -to
width reformation was wanted in the toospEtated ma-
chine of the English Constitution, was too ditheelt foe
wren in the stations of the petitioners to ascertain. The'
petition therefore was not open to any of those objVe-
tions, which lay against those which breached pataitalar
Modes of Reform. The Noble Lord, coneluifeo by. Say-
Inv, that there wens to be found atiacong*i the Sulncribers,
numbers of some of the insist resimectable and ancient',
fonsilio in the county; end that the names of a great
majority of the aristoentty were to be foond attached to
it. lie then moved that the petition be brought up.
flfr. S. WORTS. Y. Did he did not rise to oppose the
betters op of MIX Petition, but to second the Notion for
laying Woe the table. He could hear testimony to the re-
speetebillty of die Meeting. and the manner in which it was
got elf; sad, eonslderine the season in which it was held,
*stolid het deny that it was very numerous: But he how
redo to repeat opinions which he had Oven elsewhere. It
wartnot worth while inquiring about the manner in which
tbede signatures hid been obssined ; but if there had ben
17,000 instead of 17.000 names to the petition. he (Mr. W.)
would fret it his duty equallyto protest again. It.- (Hear.)
'The
(locator. •Ileuse would soon have an opportunity of trying this
and he rejoiced at the eireumstaece. •The oftener
it was .
opened tot the mom would
es the eyes of the people be
the merits of the qution. If these fienitoners,
or any other class of men, could oonviece him (Mr. W.) that
• fetter form of Represemative Government than the En-
glish Constitution could be suggested, he Would without
delay become a convert to the doctrines of the Refmers.
Me wished. however, to say, that he considered any pe-
tition so respectably signed as this entitled to the arestest
attention ; and though he differed In opinion from the peti-
tioners, yet be did not wish to detract from the importance
Of the petition. '
.._
Mr. A. Col.llollBVaaid he was opposed to ill sweeping
plans of Reform. He believed that n partial- Reform -had
already taken place, by the publication of the debates in
this House. and the consequent check Which pbbtic opinion
had over the proceedings of its Members. Ile believed,
however, that Reform could be carried farther. The Noble
Lord then advanced with the petition to the table • this do-
cument was of enormous bulk. It was Stitt feet l'ong, and
contained seventeen thousand signatures.
1 The clerks in the House were occupied nearly a quarter
of an hour in uofolding it. amidst much laughter front all
•parts of the liouse.—The pctition was then read.
On the motion that it be printed, Mr. SYKES rose to
express his cordial concurrence in the sentiments of the
petition: 'He bad reason to know that no undue influence
tad been exercised to procure signatures to it. It was
piped Spontaneously, and at a period too when the
public mind was in a state of comparative quiet, undis-
turbed by any of those es itasions Which snmnetimes induc-
ed a great degree of political activity Those who sub.
'scribed thiir names to this petition did so from a steady,
settled Conviction of its necessity. There never was a
period when so few political clubs were in activity as
at the time when this petition was circulated in the
Lamaist He considered that it was to the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite, late the Member for the town of
Liverpool, and now holding a prominent situation in his
- Majesty's Commis, that the country were indebted for
• the success of this petition.—(lleac.)—The Right Hon.
• ' Vettleman bad in the course of the last summer alluded
' tOeorise sipposed alteration in the opinions of the in-
sha :
bitants of Yorkshire on the subject of Reform. But
' they had in this petition, answered the Right Hun. Gent.
tiitidinforntly.
* , Pr. CHALONER said, that notwithstanding the rc-
'. SO-Viability and number of tte petitioners. he had cunsci.
' entiOusly snpported his Hon. Filen(' on the other Mule of
. it. 'Rouse (31r. B:Wortley.) lie thought that the pre-
sent system of representation was fully adequate to all
•
' the purposes it was ibtentled to produce. He was out
•Aisposed to alter the Constitution of that House of l'ons-
wons.. by' whose counisils this country had been raised to
• 'Web a. pitch of political glory.
' • Tye petition was laid on
BILL. dto
table.
ItERR
Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a petition from Richard
:(Cimaptnan of Itarniege Wells, representing that no.
.•
'Vetter would be able to brew the description of beer
:•• ' eobteniplated liy the Right don. l'lmanc.dlor of the Ex-
-•?Fiesqiier:under the name of intermediat- beer, without
. • ~' "eie*ltiir Mt tidally new set of premises—and proposing a
• '' pliii lay *Vett this beer might be brewed on the former
• Ittrendaell.— Laid on the table.
IaIEGOCIATICESS V% tilt FOREIGN POWERS.
- . . IhrsCANNtNtl umovrel an address to his Majesty. for
the parpos4 of having further parts of the currrstioo-
&nue during the late negociations with Foreign
• • -powers,lmihrten the table.—A greed to. .
• 1 hti. AVARICE' wiimked to take this occasion of putting
• s'que;Stlon stir the went Hoe. tient leMan. 1 n the course
often istitittirondecee now, before the public, allusion
• •* fiNineallybeeorted to' an obligation, or • opposed Alio-
ruin on thepart of Reisela and PfßiSlie, to give Fraser
••- 'edbidermince and assistance, in ease she invaded Spain.
-' lie should like 16 know from the Right Hon. tientlemmen
. ••
If be router Monti the Meese, if any treaty was in exist-
' .' *Mice by ibitli time three Powers here bound to assist
.'. route in-attacking Spain. And out of this would arise
- s.**ltl<its ;Orteitleestieb, how far any thing done at Verona;,
• • 'IMO; he argted-as a violation of time treaty of Aix-la-
'' ' •-• Chapelle. life soak!' alkOdesire some ex planation upon
' t The allusion to tW easys /*Jeri: Mentioned by 51. Cita-
esehriand

THE.,ST,

it ir..CAAING replied, that to his knowledge and
Ace/trail?' to his belief, no treattof the nature described
hi the on. Member wise in existence. !low far any ob
lig/Lions that were agreed to between theForeignPo.vers
'tiftetittlre argued as binding as the force of treatlik he
could not take nrin hietielf to dayi 'With Atepect tothe
allusions to the eases fiederes, he had to obieive that the
cases '<vivre: as defined, daring the &tenni-Mat Vero-
na, were stated never to hive oecurred. The cases in
which.assistance was promised were contingent and acci-
dental, but had not actually occurred.
ABOLITION OF swpint. . . .
it,
Lord PALIIIERSTON. ',relented A petit's/0i from tilt
. Snkriliii Catabridgeoraying that the Hopi/ ekt ft
tiPltlftt otaatta's for the extinction of slavery tbielet
iont. one West, India &Wein/nits. . They ioallair,i'd,;,,l j-
oixiiihinee al inconsistent. tejfh Abe print:lire 0 Rip
-Rib' Legislation, justice, and liunsamtirr, liriti heie).
They Reseed upon the Honed to, peoydli for,. PAP. ffil".
dual abolition of slavery, as they, di not expect. TAMI
it 0)0)1 be immediately suppressed.
.1* tleit ,
te
time they expressed a hope that ever:L.olok t:
be taken Ify the House to mitigate its rigour' wetm
continued. .
d .I.!
• Mr. BROUGHAM was sure he spoke Rai' ietitmentn
of every one. who beats' him when he endeeitettred,te elt. It
press the infinite gratifications he received trim fs .60 ttl
inept of this nature, coming from to biatlikr*Ferere.
a body as that of the Univereiti of Cambridge. • . tag
this University, so ernineotly distinguished foe ilk its
i
tachment to the throne, and its. 'carping of all Itiga/
especially for its liberel Jentelks should g 6
ate' 1.1
ments so infinitely.creditable to thetr bunaasity. aisith f
,sense of the chums of jestice, musts he "s .mtFits :
be received universally with the greatest pleasore.-
(tieie, Vet!)
• Mr. BEIINAL, ase,blembei of the tolee:rattis- er
gerated.in die sentimentatif satisfaction eipiesied- by a
on: Friend.
.The petition was ordered 011
Olio on the table. 4.4 to
printed. .
Lord STANLEY presented& petition from'ebe Chim-
tier of Commerce of Menehester, ugliest the Upon Du-
ties' Bill.
. , . .
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. • .
On thee/is/don of Mr. CANNING, it ifs* eiderell that
the House at its rising do adjoins to Thursday.
R0211A74 EiTTIOLIC CLAiMS-
Generid ARCHDALL, preeetited- a pitlelon from
thnniskilfeti against May &ether concessions to the•Ca-
eilies:-.
'Col. TRENCH stiletheavistild tats this cippeetnniiy of
noticing the denial, on a former night, by the tilin. Alioh-
ber for the enmity of Leitiiiir (ML L. Whitt),. that illy
Roman Catholic priest had inteefeeed its the late eleetions
for the county of Dublin. He (Colonel Tteneli) had
stated that priests had; in a Plat 'jealous mow, ep-
gaged themselves, and used all their influence, with their
flocks, for the purppse of having the Perendthey ap-
proved of returned. lie Lad been asked by thief. Meinifers
of that House if this was the case, and upon hissaaartng
theta that it was, they acknowledged that their salts-
meets on this important question were changed., He
coals' now restate, upon good authority, that three priests
that
ben niost actively employed during tat elon;
hat nos
nubs eases they 6d prifeeefleil to denounce the
terrors Of eternal damnation against those who refused to
eoieply with their injusietloni.—(Hear, and a laugh.)—,-
They went farther thin Ma, they allowed petsons to
epees.' their altars and address the people while they were
•yet on.their knee,.
• Me. S. RICE thought that the statement of the Hon.
Gentleman was extremely onseasooalole, as it was caleu-
NW, Tinder the :presets% circumstances, to do no more
than prolong Irritation. The House would remember
*Gist a petition was laid on the table, complaining of an
undue return for the County of Dublin upon the very
accusation now put forward by the Hon.'l.lentleman.
But they did not pursue the charge; they abandoned it,
•and was it now fair to have the matter restated? Ile
teased to be allowed to make an obseryatioo upon the
subject of the divisions which took place on the motion
of the Right Hon. the Attorney-General for Ireland on
he Catholic Question. He observed with astonishment
that the majority on that occasion was stated to be
against the Catholics. It was only necessary to state the
question, in order to show that such art interference must
have arisen from the grossest ignorance. In fact many
of those who had always been friendly to the measure,
had voted in the majority on that occasion, in cunse-
quence of the peculiar turn which the .question had taken.
And he believed that the fact would turn out to be, that
the minority oil that occasion was composed chiefly of
the opposers of concessions to the Roman Catholics.
Ile begged also to be allowed to call the attention of the
House to some statemente io the petition on their table,
which embodied the grossest and most disgusting slan-
der, against the Roman Catholics. lie would take the
following as a stipple:—
" The success of the motion would be hailed with tri-
umph by the insurgents of Ireladd, who are exclusively Ro-
man Catholics, whom neither English bounty nor executive
mildness have been able to reclaim, and that the Protestants
of Ireland would have to dread from their savage exulta-
lions a repetition of the scenes of It'stl and 17013. That the
opposition to every authorised institution, however comiu-
Moe to the welfare of the peasant or the instruction of the
child, (tom the various influential mewls-T.5 of the Roman
Catholic body and their adheres ts, the contempt with which
the Protestant religion is opelly treated, and the ambition
of the Roman Catholic Lvity and Ilissarchy, thtilatter of
whom have arrogated to themselves those titles and that re-
spect which belong to the Prelates of the Established Church
solely, and the port of many of the Roman Catholic body,
who now boldly malign the tried and staunch loyalists of
Ireland, who in times of peril circled round the altar and the
throne, having at that time, as is well known,. escaped the
hands of justice, and lately issued from their dens and con-
cealment. to wear the mask of attachment to a monarch,
against whose father they rose in rebellion, the petitioners
humbly submit, ore all sufficient grounds to warrant their
conclusions, &c."
Study, -whether they opposed, or whether they sanc-
tioned the Mims of the Catholics, they ought not to per-
mit sack calumnies to he laid on their table.
Mr.t. WHITE said, that lie had been fully warranted
in what he had stated on the occasion alluded to by the
Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Trench). lie now again stated,
that there were no priests on the 'testifies during the
election for the county of Dublin i and he had reason to
believe that the statement was without foundation, that
excommunications were denounced by the Roman Catbo-
lic
clergy against tht se oho resisted their instructions!,
to vote for the man of their choice.
Colonel WHITP: assured the House that nothing but
diffidence prevented I' trout presenting himself to the
atteutiou of the House at the time when the petition of
the Rev. Baronet (Sir 11. Lees) fess laid on the table.
It was not, he leio.tel to say, any doubt of the falsity of
the statements contained in that p-tion, that restrained
him from at 'owe delivering his sentiments upon Its cha-
racter. He hieged to repeat now that those statements
were utterly false and groutt.llesa. In fart, the Rev.
Baronet had contradicted himself, for according to a let-
ter which appeared in a Mornittg_ Paper of this day, he
outfit that the priests whom tie described before as he-
ing Actively etgaged on the hustings. sere now " near
or wheat the busting'." Bet even to this statement he
(Colonel Whitt) gave a direct contradiction. There
was not the least undue ioterfirence used by the Clergy
so that occasion.; that the Catholic Clergy felt an in-
teeistie the event of the 'election, no one who undo-
stood the state of Ireland would be surprised at.—(110.1..)
His lipedint ;darted upon a hat were called Orange
prise plea. The Priests no doubt, very naturally said,
"Here is a man avowing Mulvihill *twiny to your
elatme--.-Itere is • another who will vote for you—which

will von ego:Mier . He was accosest• xi thit•petition el-
ht.led to,- together with bit friends, as well as ihe Roman
• Catholic Clergy, of-haranguing' the 'people from the al,
tar.. ile had been prepared, whet' the petition was pre-
ended, ttinietillii_ most decided• calditillailoil to this
data rcpt. so far as it regarded hintf. Herbed since that
'finite vieited Ireland, and after MA g diligent inquiry,
ire could not-discever-thistin soy omissions* the-Gieegy-
hod addressed their flocks upon the subject of the elec-
tion, or thatthlliermitted env woe else to 'in so, .fron
(Veit. Wire:* 'Every holy kiieklitilf rillittfilitil it-irTrur
attifitne +hit thirCfsirgynierl wodht thieuten ennotinikitill:.
Siaki.sp,when they had not the. power to do so. He itpit
Villjl'ipl.edie hfloielftb etipPort Catliofic Ealmletiatic, ,
it-heing to' hit tipitileit dec<ssety for the teantOillity4
fro!y*d.. The Hop, Ham* (51i" C. Dotailleyttild • the
'Catholic clociterabe- was rtsipstot...) concession and (*VI;
world be.--(4-1444 irimbSie,(... in ville..)—Well, %lien 141
!Wide phi ii.t4 tlet House Haim think feather wits' Ee-
'neisatv to sirge,therebectors to the choice they itiatle; and'
if this deekvalondidnoraleadd int-nside the necessity
of eliegyineit'. Cr Orr otter - pit:loll,. ',Celli ngi their iodic
Miie aping titeibirsorife -Whom' li 6 will -qp'pciite
• Mr. C.'fIOMPITIV-904 --iiiiidllitl'Hon: Oefitlemso '
if he was roicOgractsamottlitXcezyol.fitt ie. all the elk,:
thous iii.gagland, tlie Frvit'fatritlitylergv.ititiefered With,
ihe most aettve•seol, anti why. 51i0a4,41; V•ithnliy'ke.litiiif
of Ireland, possessing- the elietire franclitee, he eacindedi
frven the 'exercise of the someitaterfetenoe as the Protin-
Wit Chtegn,of this troternett?• He did not Wish it to b&,
4tittfeestookthkldic snood tlwee as arty advocate fur thel
haerfcrence of the.Ciergy, Lott hr did not Wiith it to go,
iateisiiil ' itiotbef:itlidli.e-eltfefithfie wire oe l oe,-
tive
i, is thekotily 61104441 iiir eistimie of the Peo.stitn*i
• , gy; 91E61464r; WO street prAitaice might nose' •lie
ittottep,%l4 tp.ke Ca4titi against pi Catholics, be hadsli
po doubt %bait finally the 'cause leonlii.b.; teituniihuisil,
isithid tbeivallsatbut ileum The Hon. (leaden/in
Oriaelsaiiii•llytritlestlteg against the assertion of the Ilan.
tieutlerte: ..• •
..IE ~'
i . .
l ••111 t;s ft watee..ifhlit' WO he did not third/ it
I /til towstith ter covreettierktir go MI6 any'farther Maas-
lOit iipdti fltil'itiple-it the preninl drovnent, he woad!rneee-
v express his satisfactiou at what irld felled Rote the lielb,
%fetcher for Linieriet,.thicans it would set the public
tight upon the qiiti)ion iiMeli liii3 fskin place on the Catho-
dek question. is iiii)lootleedy iliniJestood twat that divi4on
was not to affect the merits lof the question. If the itispref-
lion with regard to that dislike: *bleb went abroad, re-
inatoed uncorrected. it wostiti,.lla felted, be productive of
konsequencea to trelaud Most fatal and dangerous.
• Mr. OR &TPA'S said limbs had reason to know that Dr.
Gov, the Archbishop of the Dioc.ote of Dublin. hod given in-
itructions to hi'. diocese not to interfere io elections.
Sir T. LETIIiIItIOGE veld, that ()nitre occasion of pre- 1
hinting the Petition. it would be recollected that lie did not'.
shvoeste the authenticity of the facts tb which it referred.—
Ile merely presented the petition. feeling it to he his duty so
to do: lie wohtd, however, remind lion. Alembers. that
the petitioner stated he was able to prove the facts relerrid
to i I the petition at the bar of the House.
Sir J. 24 KWPOIt'r said tbut the charges now made
against the Catholic Clergy. weve:orntnitted in the peti-
i lion, and wli • abandon them when it was stated they
iiitild be ittils tabriateithy evideiten it the liar
Ale. OA Stlig said that froth informatieit Which he
had received; lie had reason to hinny that the efforts of
some ire.ditly relntions of !its in the county of I)ulilin,
were compleiely paralfzed by theiaterfeseoce of Catho-
lic Priests, who threatened to deprive those who alltawid
vote agaiest their wishes of • the .rites of the Cbitteelt.—
This interference was - not confined to Dobliw g it tor.
vatted theetinsties also. It would be impossible to prove
the fact of Interference, becnose ilidse upon *beim Ike
Priests ifeteise It Were prevented from coining fortratd,
intimidated lest they should -incur the terrors of the
Church. This statement Le sonde with the Monist wince-
rity, and trusted without opposition to time statement of
others, that it would be eatitled at least to equal

credit. •
Col. WHITE said that they were opposed is the
statement of facts. The Honourable Gentleman said
they had no friondatioa, and be (Cel. White) maintain-
ed ihs mintrary.
Cu). TRENCH said that the statement of the Han.
Geatleman was Contradicted.
Mi. it. faIiARTIN said he knew a great deal of the
conduct of Priests at elections, and be had seen them on
three or four occasions, in which he himself was a candi-
date, take differeut sides ; hot be never knew an instance
in which any Po iest ever uttered a spiritual denunciation
against a min fur exercising the civil franchise of voting
fur whom he pleased. If any Priest acted so, ho would
be immediately interdicted by his Bishop orspiri-
tual Superior from the exercise of his priestly func-
tions.
Sir .1. MACKINTOSH said, that the contradictions
proceeded from parties equally respectable, and who un-
doubtedly entertained au equally conscientious belief in
the information which they bad received. But fortu-
nately the Douse were in possession of circumstances
which would enable them t' decide upon the respective
value(); the conflicting evidence. One of the parties
had had an opportunity of Noving their case, and ha I j
shrunk from it; whereas, the other challenged impiry I
and defied their accusers; hut the Hon. Member for Derry
told them that the witnesses were Catholics, and would
not be produced because their minds were acted on by
the terrors of priesthood. This, then, proved at any
rate, that the accusations were incapable of proof. IVith
regard to the affidavits in the possession of the lion.'
Member for Cambridge, why did not the persona who
had sworn them come forward to prove the allegations
of the election Petitions Perhaps it was because it was
safer to give evidence in that way than to submit to a
cross-examination.
Mr. BECHER. wade a few observations, which were
inaudible in the gallery.
Colonel TRENCH said, that if the allegations con-
tained in these affidavits bad been proved before the
Committee, they would nut have invalidated the return.
The Petition was then ordered to be printed.
General A RCIID.A LL presented several Petitions to
the same effect from the Couutyof Fermanagh.—Ordered
to be printed.
HIGH SHERIFF AND GRAND JURY OF DUBLIN.
Mr. ELLIS presented a petition from the High She-
riff and late Comtuission Grand Jury of Dublin, stating
that immediately on learning the charges made against
them, they repaired to London, and called for whatever
inquiry into their conduct the wisdom of the House might
direct. They were now not only in London. hut in at-
tendance in the House to await its pressure. It was
unnecessary for him to snake any Ruttier observation
iu atiticipUNKETTaxion of thwishede motito on
learn of th
from the It eaeon. Bronet.
Mr. PLn.4 lent.
if be was to understand that all the Grand Jury of Dub-
lin were in attendance.
Mr, ELLIS said there wee but six in attendance •whole
were deput •ti by their fellows, and now awaited the plea-
sure of the House.
Mr. ELLIS replied, certainly not. Six of thew hati.beta
deputed to attend on the partOfibe Whole. •
• Mr. BROUGHAM, after a remark uptsu the farm aif
the Petitiern, said he could not help acknowledging the
frankness and candour with Which •the acensettiad-put
themselves in readiness to meettlie charges Which hash
been preferred against them. lie thenglit that in the.
ensuing discussion they would he entitled to all the cre-
dit and benefit which such alacrity deserved. He did not
know how the retie might torn out; there were soma,
rases in which the same readiness had been sheave with
very different results. But hetlionglit the frankness...a
alacrity of the parties deserved consider %don.
The petition was ordered to be printed.
Sit F. OU ItDE'rf then rose and said, thatilte Propo-
sition which he WAS AVUt to sublnit to the Ilimse. paw-

rally grew ent.of the decision to which it had come upon
a subject tibial involved the presentone upon a previous
occasion. They must always have witnessed, and indeed
an example had come before them that evening, bow
painful it tt as to touch upon any subject which related
to the misfortunes of Ireland. end that it was impossible
to mention altn.ot any subject connected with that cowl-
any, wikbaant *king rise to the 'cermet 'cellos', of .irrita-
tion. 'Siff he took to be a proof that the Noose were
bound twfipil out the means of alleviating those inisfor-
'rune*, nittFoFtsieSe sorriteiteinifeefeeptetting an end to .
•a state tellidhAit all times wits one of smothered civil war,
dod which u tae seemed to be breaking out into tuntnal
OM' of tonality lsetivrei the two parties. lk felt that
attar tlineat there was great difficulty in touching um,
theiesiMitte; dad Wile nowthoest MO:: lie shoal* only
be adding fresil dirtier, to those which fuelmeetf the
,c6fiefry, be shcitiM be the last, person id the world who
toiaill ndt he' ready to cover the past with the veil of
9§liiien. nia after whist had: takers vflaetf, It would he
wo,. and Mailings, and Childish—like *wile irtsohs ii ho
msld• not wide*, its the win. for fedr of lodetatios
he steno-ego& tet go into a Intl inviotigation of
I
be causes to which all these deeadfot elshatine‘
ere to he aserihed. When- the quesewt was opetwil
y the Ilnitiatlealsli Weibel. for Amiss It, in the mowier so
ono/treble td. gotielf, to' vigteeable to those who heard
int, awl as he trusted hiettaW lie etenfieff,ficebenefieial
to Eiji ediffitis';-thile were slimly topics inriosruccd whirls
it wnekl net be necteetity fbr Ida to allude to now. The
trainstiosie ttlitit7' the At•orttey-Genciil adi the tot
. '?riff weroSett great tioneeitutional•Anilioritlett;oue .
Ont., he thoWeit, te /dein any part of Hoek consitlerat:on.
LlotheJ as the Mtneneyedidetil iratioith high who;
' rfty, whea..fie hid brought charges against atiother Offs
r, as la ais Itinlttlf, eotisistationally speditihg,
quite ' . ;..ilei j
It was ungssastole,
_its Ins opinion, fbje the House t 1 refise
'seceding to the moiliiii, with whieli he Sheuld have the
hostwar wt etraeltulingr. The snore be had eerasigh•re.t
Orli sobjeet, the snore be rejoie.d toast : kit load not blest
Called upon sis tote on the iaasittif brought Weft the
Howe alt itiedt,. by the Hon. Menthe/ leis Arlin& In
the. tket instance, be IliiMigift the ednifnet of the Atter,-
,neyatieneralkil fires oppressive • but tWitiliiiseiti of
that Xliabt on. Geirletnan of the pecitliar rise he had
to do with, "‘rifiitly elititigt4l 'hit optdidi..' if 64 ilf3s
reeding by.exosiffem igiforniation was et all to he saori-
tioned, he thoßght the veer, rase discluseil be ibe eta*.
melt of the Attorieyableneral,
.was the one to call far
that sanction; and he, therefore, could never hare con-
curred in the propmed vote of censure upon the 1411 t
lloentirable Gentlentsii. The power exercised hp the A-
taruey-tfeneral appeared in the case in qttestion to hitelfr
been ekereised for the prweetion of the reel+. ; sod.
sill' regard to the pekuns &reused; he thought it was
impossible fur the Atierney-fieneral to prikerd in a mole
more iiviiiiialTe to %heat then that Whii7ll hr fialff4p-Pit
It was only when the ordinary 160 !e of &Mining ji -
lice bad bee* Mewled t 4 withoisreifeat; that reentiese
should be bad to melt it promitillog is Haw of et odfteit•
information. Ile wished every Attorney-General ttoif.i
follow the examp'e of the Right thinllfenthinsn ; h.-
deed be wished they *ete 'Made to folltewlL—lft'oishe t
every Arorney-Getieral were cooped-ii first tit ley his
case before n Grand Jury, and, on its being theown out
by them, to peoceed es-offieio at his ow n.ra. This was
a course rather in favour of the accused,. became it gave
him the b..nt nit of the impression cre.iteil by the burnt-
ledge • that a Grand jury hid • pronoutteed a favourable
opinion en his mak. But a hen Ms power was Instifiell,
he found It was always by the patikez of extreme cotes:
Blickstmot bed &aired that it eras a porn to he net-
eised otily in cake of great fecesSity.—Yet tlits practice,
justified only is eftseme cases, Was generally put in prac-
tice in all. 'Fife alignment of Sir liartheloutew likelier
had been quoted in its defence; butt he (Ste Francis Bar-
tlett) thought that that ereutuest by it. means applied.
Indeed, if it were insint.ineel to its full wrist, it wont..e
go td'saliction the preceding ex-rliejo; eves live-Met i,l
tiigti Treartnt. Bat in this particular ease, be wished'
it to be distinctly understood as Ms opinlob, that no
odium could be ettarbed to the Wiest lino. Gentleman.
lie thought, indeed, that his present motion would.
' have been perfectly unnecessary had it rot Artificer the
statements of the Right lion. tientlethatt in the course of
his tlefeni.e on a former night. Themx statements kid
been met by a direct negative on the pert of the friends of
the High Sheriff, who was offeeted by them ; and ho
thought it necessarily followed
that inquiry should take
G
place. He deprecated what he called the mischiernua doc-
trine of so acting as to give oat caute of triumph to either
arty. This he considered as a refusal of justice to ei her
party.—The lion. and Learned Gent. (Mr. Cenrtenat N
we believe) who maintained this doctrine on a former even.-
ing, had treated the question then before the House as a
contest between the Grange and the Catholic party. The
lion. Member fur Armagh had c rtatnly confined his motion
to the articular occasion, au occasion which 'hewed the
anomaly of a Lord Lieutenant and an Attoreity-Geaeral, en-
deavouring to protect the people pgaiest a factibe. In such
an endeavour it was of course a question of discretion
after all; and he was free to confess, that if the Attorney -
General had not stated in his defence facts which affected
his character of others, he should have thought say farther
proceedings unnecessary. Ile thought however that Nliait-
ters ought not to have left the Right litre. Gentleman in a
state of ambiguity, and he could not see'upon what ground
his present motion would be opposed, or :or what purpose,
or by whoa. Ile was sure the Attorney-General c mid not
think of opposing it ; and others had &eh:red that the She-
MI himself wished for inquiry. He had heard it whispered
that the motion would be met by some ame.elment, founded
upon as intention of the Attorney-General to prosecute the
Sheriff. Ile wished the question to be considered without
reference to any party feeling ; and he therefore should op-
pose any amendment, such as he had mentioned; because it
would be sending the accused to trial with the weight of the
opinion of the House added to the accusation. At all events,
it was unfit that the question should rest where it vas at
present. Re thought the House Shout(' be in possession of
the whole case; and, with the view to wive the House the
full possession of that case, lie moved. - that the etatement
of the Attorney-Denerel, made in his place in that Wase
out the 13th of April insta.d, respecting the proceedings on
the trial of Forbes, the Handwiches, end Graham. renders
it incumbent on this House to Mediate..am imptiry Quo die
conduct of the Sheriffs of Dublin on that occssiar.-
Mr.PLUNKETT assured the House,tbat the observations
he would make on the present motion would he vi ry (es.
lie thought it would be unbecoming in him to oppose bi-
gotry; but he did not think that his case stood upon ilk.
question stated by the Ilenourattle Baronet. The questioa
iit his case, was one of diseretion entirety, and when once it
was resolved into thet,, it was not because an lionmtatee
Member might differ from hint on that subject, that there-
fore be should censure him. To censure him, the Maw
levet not only differ from him on the quorai a as to his er-
ereise of that discretion, but must also decide that motif.:
ocfasolpopnr.essiiioentaotrly madamlicitetehdadthien7..e:ty.
oirieLacqouuirinbotoiliwut
thankiblli thed ttihoantohui
ars::
sea:ace:l
inoent
.f.itti fur the
ttiloi et
agto las till esitnabnudl yli u. :aunt::
is which he hrol introduced the [notion, a manner iadeed
which never forsook the liOn)unOle Baronet upon any or-
' question. If his case was esinplete, and he submitted that
it was. without referee( e to rite subject matter of the llos.
Baronet's motion, he could not be at all affected by it. fit
gust here observe, that on occasion of his Address to tbe
House. wherein he had made the statements respectbet ing Be
High fiheriff of Dublin, lie was not an accuser, at. n•
eased. Ile was stating his own exculpation. /image.*
was aware that It involved the conduct of other istibridratt•
Ills defence was, that he believed the facts he statastio the
House; and, so behaving MOO, the ql .
estien was..vdtrno
he was not bound to act as he had done ? If itebefie"
fed that rev sin circumstances had tgenspir4, idl.le!.
lilt to spew that the minds of the Grind Jury (..iirmerfsur
am* habits or- whatolse, it mattered not) were aothserkite
to lead Item to a pi oar cenicauction on Besevidenceaitell fr
rata riatht to take the measures Imbed-take" to obtsiano!
eo tell son ? tie considered Memel .to bate no n' wo
.ccqcera in the present motion, though heal:add-hi' '

-
1';