The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-07-07 00:00:00

ornt Si'ATESiVi*N.

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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. claims as arising out of the original agreement, upon
—......_ . the faith of which Mr. Palmer gave his invention to
DOUSE OF LORDS, Jccv 6. the country.
In the reaLsioinii branch of the Roxburgh ease, relative to After a few words from the Earl of LAUDER-
*, fens, the 1.01( 1) CD itNel.:l,l.ol{. delivered his opinion at
lb !earth, concluding by a motion to remit th • cause DALE, in explanation, the House divided,
lb .c 4to ,lie Caen of 'session, with a Resolution of t ..- House, ! Contents for the secoad reading . $6
Not-CouielllS
callit4 upon thew to review their judgment, and state specih- i • • • •It
cony their reason+ for that judgmeot.
Toe '44 V.% LE r hi • of ihe two- I Majority

this Bill, instead of being in the desolate and ahomi.
nable state in which it was at present, it would be
covered with magnificent buildings.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
said, the late Mr. Perceval had stated at first the
same objections to the present plan which they had
now heard from the Member for the County of
Surrey.

. 13

read a third time 't•

Eses-sk LADDER, . spoke . support .. -
. The Bill was ordered to be .
ilea, which was gem! to.
'I 1 TAX ON LEATIIIin.
Tae Irish Commits:lone& Bill, and the Chelsea Pensioners' I
Bill, mere mut a third time awl passed. , ' Lord LIVERPOOL moved the second reading of morrow.
Mr. TIERNEY moved for an Account of the In-
The English 1•:-ilvent Debtors' Bill passed through a cm_ the Excise Duty Bill.
Mitt—. with several auseadou-ats, proposed by the Earl of Lau- , The Duke of NORFOLK opposed the clause in come and Charges of the Consolidated Fund, from
deed*. Report on Tharsday. . , .
Tim' 5,00,40.101. Exchequer Bills Bill, the Irish Treasury 1
the :./
!the Bill imposing a tax on leather. He objected to July 1811, to July 1812.—Ordered.
Bills' NIB the Newfoundland Trade Bill. the West India In- . impolicy generally of putting a tax on the raw Sir
.GEORGE WARRENDER, after some ob-
servations on the hardship of the tax on the windows
sere wise Bill, the Mitritti,c Acid Bill, and the C.anatie Com- ' material of any manufacture.
inissinueis' Bill, were read a second time, and committed for I Lord SUFFOLK said, that if proper attention of the lower classes of Scotland, which was extreme.
to
The Marw.enis of Lansdowne, after a short conversation be- I was observed in the mode of collecting the income ly unproductive, and expensive to collect, moved for
twee,' Ws Lord.thip and the Earl of ilar.rowhy, withdrew . his an account of the amount of that duty up to June
motion .er a Copy of the Report of the Commissioners appoint- ! tax no additional taxes would be necessary.
cd to enquire into the laws and constitution of Jersey,. on the : The. Earl of LIVERPOOL thought the tax the last, which, after a few words from the Chancellor
g_ristind that Government bed not yet bad time to consider the best existing circumstances admitted of,—the Com- of the Exchequer, was ordered accordingly.
Report. LINCOLN GAOL.
Earl STANHOPE premised a Petition against the I ther mittee would be the proper stage for opposing the
lee 'Aids was objected to by the Earl of Liverpool and the duty on leather. Mr. DAVIES GIDDY brought up a Report
Lord Chancellor, it being contrary to the awe of the House to Lord FITZWILLIAM thought an additional duty from the Select Committee appointed to enquire into
receive Petitions against Tax. Bills, and the question for the .
on leather very objectionable, the state of Lincoln Gaol. The Report stated, that
Petition being rmd was negatived.
In sarwer is a question from the Earl of Norfolk, the Earl Lord LAUDERDALE wished to know if It was the Committee could not proceed in their enquiry
of LIVERPOOL stated his intention of mowing the second the intention of Government to propose any coon- without the attendance of a number of Prisoners in
rending of the Leather Duty Bill this evening, and its commit-
ment to-morrow. etervailing duty on hides and skins in Ireland ? the Castle of Lincoln. They were aware of the
MR. PALMER'S CLAIMS. Lord LIVERPOOL was not aware of any such power possessed 6y the Howie to enforce their at-
The Earl of MOIRA moved the Order of the Day, . intention on the part of Government. tendaoce ; but they stated the inconveniences and
for the second reading of Mr. Palmer's Compensa- 1 The Bill was then read a second time and commit- expence which would be occasioned by it. The
Lion Bill. Ills Lordship, in support of the Bill, ted for to-morrow. Assizes would come on soon, when the Gaoler could
urged the justice of Mr. Palmer's claims, fitunded ' The House having gone into a Committee on the i not be absent without great inconvenience. •On all
upon an agreement with the Government to re- Court of Chancery and Court of Appeals Regulationwhich accounts, and from the advanced state of the
I
• Ceive two and a half per cent. on the Increase of the Bill, public business, they wished to be discharged from
Revenue of the Post Office, in consideration of his Lord LAUDERDALE opposed the Report.
,P the duty imposed on them by the House.
tnventioe for conveying the letters in mail coaches ; ! Lord REDESDALE supported it. i• -.Mr. D. GIDDY, on the Report being read, tug-
enntendine that nothing existed to impeach the jus- ! The Lord Chancellor and Lord Erskine concurred:, gested, that to send down Commissioners to Lin-
tice of these claims, whilst, at the same time, the re- in the opinion, that no man living could go through ; coin, would be a more advisable mode of carrying en
trenue of the Post Office had been greatly increased, ' the business of the Court of Chancery and of Speaker I the enquiry.
and the public most materially benefited, in the con-' in that House. Mr. ABERCROMBIP approved of the Report.
renienoe afforded by the carrying into effect Mr. The other Orders of the Day were- then disposed Mr. HOLME SUMNER said, as the business
Palmer's plans. , of, and the House adjourued. would now stand over fur another Session, he wished
The Earl of SUFFOLK thought it material toi -- to set the character of Dr. Illingworth right in the
the discussion of this question, that the contract be- I HOUSE OF COMMONS. opinion of the country. There was sufficient evi-
eween Goverument and Mr. Palmer should be pro- ' donee before the Committee to convince them that no
The Lottery Bill was read a third time and passed ; the Scotch!
aluced. Stipend Bill, was read a second time. money transactions had ever taken place between the
The Earl of HARROWBY observed, that no h M;:,.‘BhßOUGH,Vtlheewlshedetoonkneonsv foroninwitrtoChanc be mclat of.
to Gaoler and that Magistrate; and he hoped that the
Ouch contract existed ; that the agreement with Mr. tthiene 'me merchants whosew
property had i
been seized at Copenha... other gentlemen of the Committee now present would
Palmer was in consideration of his services to be af. gen, out of the Droits of Admiralty ? !also express this opinion to the Ilnuse.
forded in superintending the execution of his own ,
were Thea C, IleAe e Ne gt:
ILI krOeitoonli(tlht Eit e Yon
' CHEQUER said their roses Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY said, this was the first
plan • and that his dismissal, for misconduct, pre- The Rit!port of the India loan Bill was taken into considera- time he had ever heard of this charge. lie had never
eluded all claim on his part under tint agreement. , tion, and the third reading of the Bill
ti orderenforto.:morrow , stated that Dr. Illingworth had borrowed money of
In consideration of the merits of his invention, : (oTsiestedaaytiloineohetnheM&uCsento;tii;le al:dile:11h. e should allb mit a few • the Gaoler, nor did he believe any other person had
3,0001. a year was given to him, which he (Lord Har- i Mr. HOLItIE SUMNER moved for leaveto bring in a Bill to 'stated it; but it- was too much, because the Gaoler
sooty) considered an ample remuneration. i explain the Exemptions from Toll, contained in several Acts of had been examined on this subjects to ask hint on
Parliament, on Carriages employed in Husbandry.—Leave I
The Marquis of LANS DOW NE contended for ' given.-13111 brought in and mad a first time, and the second : this ex-parte evidence, to say that no such circum-
the justice of the claim; and that nothing done in a i reading to-morrow. i stance had over taken place.
moment of irritation ought to be considered as pre- I, The 17roimshnmSitatnpttee osn' ltilintrfraadruca-itshoirrit time :tad passed.
Bill was post. I Mr. ELLISON said it had been expressly stated
eluding Mr. Palmer from that remuneration to , peed till to-morrow. :by an Honourable Baronet (we believe Sir Francis
which, from the justice and the honour of the coun- 1 Mr. PARKER COKE presented a Petition from several Ho. Burdett) that the practice of borrowing money of
tiers of Nottingham in favour of the Bill. Read, and ordered
try, he was fairly entitled, under the agreement made : : the gaoler had even travelled up to the Magistrates.
to lie on the table. '
with Mr. Pitt, in consideration of which he gave to Immure PRISON BILL. j This charge he conceived to be totally done away.
the country the benefits of iris invention, and had Sir W. cuwris moved that the Report of the • Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY explained, He had
thus produced rho ereatest advantages to the public. 1 Loudon Prison Bill be taken into further consider- ! never accused the Magistrates of corruption, but he
The leirl of LAUDERDALE maintained, that i ation. i had accused them of connivance at Improper prac-
the agreement in fact made by Mr. Palmer with the Mr. HOLME SUMNER opposed it. Heobserved, `(ices. lie had alluded to the taking money for beds
then Gevernment, was, that he was to be Bp-, that by law all prisons ought to be built at the ex. ! —the Resolution of the Magistrates to allot only two
poiutcd C.lnieroller of the Post Office, to superin. :police of the Counties in which they were situated ; ' rooms to those who should not eity for their beds, and
lend the execution of t.is own plans with the per ' and that the City of Leedon, by proposing to raise seven to those setts should pay for them—and the con.
tentage, in addition to his salary, but which per cen. l the sum of 90,0001. for their New Prison, on the versation of one of the Magistrates with Mr. Fine
tap depended upon his continuing to employ him- ! Orphan Fund, were actually throwing a great part nerty, who was told he might have a better room if
self activ,ly and zealeusly in that superintendence. iof Qat burden on the neighbouring counties. The he paid three guineas a week for it.
Ilis subsequent misconduct, which led to his dismis. Honourable Gentleman went into an explanation of After a few words from Mr. BROUGHAM, tka
sal, lie (Lord Lauderdale) contended, took away his the Orphan Fund. By several laws the Corporation Report was ordered to lie on the table.
right to make any further claims for the per tentage. of the City of London were entitled to the custody i Mr. DAVIE.; GIDDY then moved, that an hum.
The Earl of CARNARVON supported the Bill, of the Estates of all Orphans. This sum at the Pe' ble Address be preiented to the Prince Regent, pray.
contending that the country was bound in honour to riod of the Civil Wars, amounted to between seven big that he would be graciously pleased to order that
snake gond Ow original agreement with Mr. Pitt,' and eight hundred thousand pounds. On account of a commission be issued to enquire into what has been,
upon the faith of which Mr. Palmer gave to them the' the losses which the City sustained at that period, at'd now is, the- condition and treatment of prison.
edvantsetes of his invention. they were unable to discharge that debt: and Parlia..
Pis confined in Lincoln Castle, and into the conduct
Lord WALSI NCH AM said a few words, for the , 1
ment were obliged to grant for that purpose a duty of Magistrates with reference to that County.—
purpose of shewilig that Mr. Palmer had every faci- on all Coals and Wine brought into the Port of Lou- Agreed.
Thy given to him at the Post Office, for the purpose i don, which duty was continued from time to time by ISLAND OF JERSEY.
of carrying his plan into effect. Iseveral Acts of Parliament. Instead of applying this Mr. ABERCROMBIE rose, pursuant to notice,
Lord Viscount MOUNTJOV quoted some pas- duty exclusively, to the purpose for which it was to make his motion respecting the Commission lately
sages of the evidence in the Report of the Committee, ' granted, the City of London had formerly raised the issued to enquire into certain matters touching the
for the purposes of shewing that Mr. Palmer's lute- : expence of building Blackfriars' Bridge on it ; and Island of Jersey. The
.Honourable Member went
grity was uoimp 'melted. 'they new proposed to raise the expence of the New into some details, as to the origin of the charter
Lord EIteKINE argued, that the spirit of the : Prison on it iu the same manner. This was an injus- ' granted by King John, which was confirmed by
original agreement made between Me Nmer and ' rice to the neighbouring Counties, who were obliged ' Charles Ir. in 1671, and again by his present Ma-
Mr. l'i:t required in justice and honour, that the to draw their Coals and \Vine from the Port of Lon- ' jesty in 1771. Ile stated, that the inhabitants of
claims of Mr. Palmer eiould be granted, although ; don, and consequently paid their share of the duty Jersey were apprehensive test it was intended to de-
those claim, could not he maintained in a Court of ! which would immediately cease on the debt being I rive them of their eletive franchise, as possessed by
Law, and that Mr. Palmer's dismissal from office, i! discharged, for which it was originally granted. He them at present in the mode of electing their jurats.
could not affect his claims to the per tentage. ; therefore moved that the Report be taken into fur- ! They complained also of the great secrecy which was
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, if the Bill i timer consideration this day three months.. I observed by Ministers as to the object of the com-
passed its present stage, he should have important I Sir W. CURTIS said, no body of men had done ; mission ; and being left altogether in the dark with
amendments to propose i.i its subsequent stage,. ()eel so much for the Public as the Cititizens of London. ; regard to what was intended, they naturally feared
important consideration arose out of it, as affecting , lie recapitulated the benefits which the County of ! the worst. What they desired was, if they were ac-
the Post Office revenue, which was the hereditary Surrey had derived from the building of Blackfriars'. cused of any thing, to know the nature of the accu-
revenue of the Crown. Supposing this Bill charging : Midge, and the taking off the Toll from London
.: sation. Their first wish was to remain as they were,
the revenue of the Post Office with 9,8001. a year,' Bridge. The City of London were not only obliged ior if not, to be incorporated with England, governed
during the life of Mr. Palmer, and to be consented 1 to keep their own prisoners and the prisoners of the , by the same laws, and regulated by the same institu-
to in the name anti on the behalf of his Majesty, i County of Middlesex, but they were also obliged to ! tions. Mr. Abercrombie contended, that as a sum
who, if Mr. Palmer's life were to last longer than I keep the state prisoners from other parts of the' had been voted for the .payment of those Commis-
his M iesty's, was th '0 to consent respecting this : country, till they were disposed of by trausportpion ! sioners, Parliament ought to know something of
hereditary reveaue of the Crown. He thought it .or otherwise. 'f he expence for bread, for the last! what they had done. He concluded by moving, that
weeld he a very bad precedent, if the Bill was suf- ! quarter alone, amounted to 9501. there be laid before the House a Copy of the Report
fered to pass, and contended that Mr. Palmer had Mr. IL SUMNER explained, of the CommissiOners appointed to enquire into the
no just claim whatever, having forfeited his claims by 1 Sir CHARLES PRICE supported the Bill. mode of electing Jurats in the Island of Jersey.
his misconduct. 1 Mr. SAM UEL THORNTON opposed it. Mr. RYDER objected to the motion. 'He said,
_ _ _

Lard REOFSDA LE was of opiuion that the'
written agreement between the parties superseded all
vrevious verbal communications; and that under that
written agreement, namely, the appointment to the
office of Comp roller of the Pest Office, with the
per centage, Mr. Palmer had forfeited all further
claim by his misconduct.
Lord HOLLAND observed, that they were not
discussing a question of technical law, but a claim
upon the honour and justice of the country, for the
remuneration of a meritorious individual for au in-
vention, the advantages of which had been generally
felt, and which he bad given to the country under
the faith of an agreement with the then Government.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL contended that a con-
tract nev...r was entered into in the terms suggested
by the supporters of the Bill, that the per centage
was given to Mr. Palmer with a view to his services
in seperintendit:g the carrying his plans into execn-
tion, and tb't by the misconduct which rendered his
dismissal necessary, all further claim to that per
eentege was forfeited.
The Earl of MOIRA, in reply, contended, that
litothing had been usged to affect the justice of these

. •
Mr. COMBE said a few words in favour of the
Bill.
Sir JAMES SHAW said, the City of London had
made a noble usd of their Funds. Within the last
30 years, no less than 120,00u1. had been voted for
monuments, swords, boxes, and other honours to the
defenders of our country.
The House then disided—
Fr ohe Amendment of Mr. Mawr . IS
Againstit
Majority . . yg
The Report was accordingly taken into further
consideration.
The Report of the Moorfields' Improvement Bill
was moved to be taken into further consideration.
Mr.HOLM E SUMNER said, the ground ofMcior-
fields was granted to the City of London for the re-
creation of tke Citizens, and on the express condi-
tion that it should not be built on. Was this Bill
to pass, there would not be a piece of ground within
two miles of the Royal Exchange on which a•Volun.
teer Corps of 200 men could exercise.
Sir W. CURTIS' said, the ground in question had
become one of the gieatest possible nuisances. By

that while he had the honour of being one of the con-
fidential servants of the Crown, he had opportuni-
ties of knowing that complaints were made to Go-
vernment, and requests made that some important
alteration should be made in the constitution of that
island. Commissioners were accordingly sent out to
enquire into the circumstances; when they returned
they made a Report, and upori that Report no pro-
ceeding had yet taken place. It %Vas still under the
coilideration of Government, and he thought the
llon.Member would come with a better grace before
the House, if he waited till the Government had de-
cided one way or other.
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY did not think the mo-
tion of his Hon. Friend premature. • The House had
voted money for the Commission, and they ought to
know something of its object.
Mr. RYDER explained.
Lord CASTLEREAGH objected to the prodpc•
tion of the Report while the matter was still tub
4utlice.
Mr. WHITBREAD supported the motion.
Mr. ABERCROMBIE briefly. replied, in which.
he stated, that probably, daring the revel!, the Go-

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