The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-03-05 00:00:00

the time when these resolutions were passed, in order to
lead them to the consequences which followed. It was at
the commencement of the civil oar.; that these resolutions
had been adopted. From that moment step by step the
people were led to treat every thing that was sacred with
contempt—to despoil the church, and finally to over-
throw the Constitution. But the hon. gent. hail defended
his plan by representing it to he anologoris to that which
hail been carried into effect by Prince Leopold of Tuscatry.
On that transaction he begged to give no opinion ; but
he must take the liberty to ray that he would not consent
to abandon the principles of honour and justice on any
plea that might be grounded on a similar proceeding in
a foreign country. Frorn Lis youth lie hail understood
that if England was in any thing distinguished from the
other nations of the earth, it was for her steady adher-
ence to truth, morality, and -justice; and he would not
consent to compreinise this character for any prospect of
temporary or local advantage. Rut the Hun. Gentleman
heti spoken of this measure as being calculated to relieve
the landed interest. Viewed in this light, he thought
no man in that house would lie %sillier to give those the
lion, gentleman professed anxiety to b •friend the boom
he was disposed oiled.' out to them. Of all the dangers
likely to befitl any country, he knew of none greater than
what wield be expected from adopting a p1,..n which
wont I rob one class of snbjects in order to mitigate those
burthens wt;ich pressed on another. He meant no dis-
respect to the hon. gentleman : but he felt it his duty to
reject the present proposition, whiela, in his opinion,
while it professed charity, rent to sanction a flagrant act
of spoliation. It was not the first time tliLt the Church
had been thus assailed; nor could the' Right lion. Gen-
tleman claim priority for the reasoning which he had ad-
vanced. in other times similar evetnpts have been made.
" Might not this ointment be sold for 300 pence, and
given to the poor," was the hypocriti, al pretext advanced
by those who were no friends to benevolence. While
they held this language, they cared not for the poor ; but
they opposed it to the gre:it founder of our Religion, not
because the course he pursued was necessary to his exis-
tence, but because they feared it would give Isis Ministry
undue splendour, and raise hiin to a height which they
nished not to contemplate. The Hon. Gentleman had
gone so much into detail, Grit it was impossible he (Mr.
Goulbitrn) should pursue him through the whole of them.
It was impossible Me him to look into the amount of the
tithes for England, and explain the circumstances under
which one Prelate had let his land, anti another had
assessed extraortinary wealth. He hoped that the
house would extend to him so much of that indulgence
which hail been extended to him on other occasions, as
not to asssume those statements were correct which had
been advanced by the Hon. Gentleman, till time fir
preparation to answer them, had been allowed. He and
the Hon. Gentlemon differed on principle as to the cha-
racter of Church property. The Hon. Gentleman had
assumed that property held by the Church was not pro-
tected by the same gtiards which secured the pro;rerty
held by an indisidual• Layman. He (Mr. Goulburn)
would assert, that the Lands assigned for the mainte-
nance of the Church were the property of the Church.
He spoke in the presence of those who could correct him
if he were wrong, but the Tithe pioperty.ophe Church.,
was so identified with it, that so long as fiat House I
continued to perform its duty, they could no more di-
vest
the holder of tithes of his property, than they
could divest any individual of his estate. There were'
individuals who held property by certain services to be
by them performed. Thrse sera L•es, omitted to be per-
formed, who had ever heard of the patties being despoil-I
ed of their property altogether? Yet this was the course
the Honourable Gentleman was disposed to take with re-
spect to the Clergy. The hon. gentleman mistook alto-
gether the charity,- r of tithes. These were not given
merely for the benefit of the Church, but for the benefit
of the people. He described some of those who received
them to defraud the country, and therefore he proposed
to withdraw the property from them altogether.--" Be-
cause certain members of the Clergy, in particular parts
of the country, do not perform their d'oty, I," cried this
great-reformer of the modern school, " will mulct the
districts which have thits been wronged of the means of
maintaining the Clergy for seer!" Supposing the case of
abuses to have existed in a hospital, would that he a
reason for doing away that hospital ? The lion. gentle.
man • might say he 'aid not argue fairly in coiiipariag
his plan with the Resolutions of 1640; as the hon.
gentleman had proposed not to limit the allowance of the
Clergy to the sum then thought sufficient for their main-
tenance, as lie proposed to grant them an income of be-.
twern one huntired.and five hundred pounds per annum,
but in principle be conceived the proposition to be the
same. He (Mr. Gonlburn) was not bound to the Esta-
blished church by any idle veneration which•wciaid lead
him to favour those who neglected total the duties of
their situation. He, however, hilt that great advantages
were derived from the efforts made to promote religions
knowledge, and it had atways been the Ode of the
hkurch of this country to have produced more nien of
learning and of ,general knowledge, than had distin-
guished any other church in the world. This supplied
one reason against • uncalled for hiterferetice with- the
clergy. Unless the same itelncements, as foimerly;min-
tinued to be held out, the same influx of learning and •
talent could not be expected. When he (Mr. Goul-
burn) compared the church of England math that esta-
blishment to which the lion. Gentleman was very fond of
referring, the church of Scotland, (of which he meant to
speak with proper respect) when he considered the dis-
• tinguished individuals which bed been furnished to the
world by each, he confessed he could see no reason for
'altering opt present church establishment. The obser-
vations he had mails were necessarily of a very general
nature. The argument did not confine 'itself to one
country. He knew of no argument against diminishing
or confiscating church property in this country which
would not apply to. similar acts in Ireland. The Ho-
nourable Gentleman had admitted that the• Irish
church was no worse than that of Englaud, and therefore
it must be admitted that it was entitled to the same int-
partial.justice. Those who took this sriew of the subject
would, he hoped, roam nil& him in voting against the
motion. Haying differed so much (ruin
man, he at length came to one point in which he could :agree
with him. lie joined with him in regretting that so many of
the Irish Clergy were non-residents: he wished more of
them to he resident in their dioe,ises. as he thouitht the pee.,
:fence of the Clergy more necessary in Ireland then to any
other country in the word: Ile AV tblied to see then, resident
there, as I.e thought their presence would tend to tranquillise I
the people snore titan any other circti-ostance that could be
imagiaed. This had been in the contemplation of the Bish-
rps, Archbishops, and Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, and their
influence bad been used to diminish the number of non-resi-
dents. To make the Clergy resident on their livings, with-
out attacking the property of the Church, was 411 it to which
lie had no objection whatever. The Hon. (tent, had spoken
of the influence of family interest, and bad supposed the
Church appointments In Ireland to be made from these cor-
rupt motives, which so readily occurred to lam oil all occa-
sions. Ile knew that nifty of the Clergy in Ireland had no
cotinctien with high families or with those who bad seats in
that Howe. This, however, was nothing, unless the indi-
viduals alluded to, by their character and conduct forfeited
;noir claims to the distinctions they enjoyed. There were
- 1 none higher in talents, learning, and virtue, than those who