The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-03-03 00:00:00

THE RTATIC;

titions which have beets pretested on this sub-
ject I beliere, sir, that the more the names of
the Petitioners are examined the more will it be
forted that they are of the most respectable de•
*caption. If the subject conceraing which these Pe-
titions have been presented referred merely tea mat-
ter of individaal suffering, it sight be desirable that
the names of the Petitioners should be very name-
rout but on a subject of this general nature I coll.
!rile that the surholity and character of the Pett-
it rrers should h• looted to rstner than tlieir olden-
sirr. number. With respect to the Petition from the
City, who are the Petitioners? They are the Ma-
Ilirorates and infOis of a Court in which capital
punishment 'sista to • greater eateut unfortunately
then peVheps in any other one in the world. To dui,
cane:jests', therefore, on the subject of Criminal
Law considerable importance should be attacked;
but •tilt further, it is to be considered that they are
peculiarly liable to the depredations against which
the low provides, and may therefore reasonably be
',opposed %I attached to the system by which their
property is protected, sinless' that system has bees
proved by et perience to be at elitism with the prise
ciples of justice, sod even with the objects which it
professes to attain. I say, Sir, that the may be reason.
ably supposed, fur it is the nature of man geoerallp to
be favourable to those means by, which his wishes are
most speedily anti effectually secured. Tim authority
of t citizens of London, therefore, on this melded*
•pparently In opposition to their own interests, meet
be considered as of the highest importance.--[eeer,
Acar !]—With respect to the Positiou from the Fee
ciety of Friends, commonly called Quakers, it may
be necessary fur me to say a few words. This Pod-
lion prays for such a change of the Crimisal Law as
is consistent with justice, and it also indulges in some
hopes that the necessity for capital punishment may,
by the progresi of religion and good morals, elti-
mately ewe. This; Is a hope with which good
men have at various times consoled themselves ; bat
whatever may be the opinion respecting the speculS-
lions of philosophy, or the hopes of religion, I did
frost that a body of men who neither send paupers
to our workhouses, nor criminals to oar prisons,
would have at least escaped from an attempt to ridi-
cule or censers them. [Licari heart] —I own that
such a body did not seem tow adapted for ridicule ;
a body which was the foremost to bring forward, and
the most strenaoas in eosin, the abolition of the
African Slave Trade; • body whose practice wants
only to become general in order to render the inflic-
tion of capital psnishmest altogether unnecessary."
—[fleat, heart] The lion. Member set down
amidst cheers from both sides of the Ilene.
After the recision had been read hem the Chair,

Lord CASTLEILEAGH aehereveledged the tem-
perste and candid meet le•ableb the Honourable!
and berried Gentleman bed treated this important
subject- -[1 her, hear !]—as well as the valet of the
lights which his highly cultivated mind and legal ta.
lents had thrown open all the bearings of the case.
But still, for the reasons which he had stated lest
night, he felt it his defy to differ 4rnm the coarse
which the Ileeeertble and Leareed Gentlemen pro-
posed to purser. As to the two precedents quoted
by the Honourable end Leerned Gentlemen,
be thoeght that the circumstances connected with:
these precedents, fereisked segments rather against'
their imitation, then in fovea, of 'their adoption.
—What was the cowrie In 1752 ? The Bill was!
sent to the House of Lords, het there was no :
practical remelt; the number of capital lifelike
was not diminished by it—why, it was in vain, at
Ibis dietaries of time, to 'nitrite ; bet he could easily
imagine that it failed feaceemplithing that object be-
cause it was founded esclasi►ely on an abstract view
of t►e subject. without any reference to an 'salsify
cote the recondary punishment to be sobstiteted for
the cspital. Nor had the Honourable and Leeraed
Gentleman show• thet alte peoseeditigt is the year
1770 14 to awl practical seselt. In feet, therefore,
It was impossible ['cite precedeals less calculated to
Invite the adoption of the course recommended by the
Homerableand Learned Gentleman. Ti.l precedents
of more modern times west to themes effect. Of She
measures introdeced into that House by il.e Leafleted
individual alluded to by the Horioerable and Gemini
Ge•tlenean, only one received the sanction et the
other Hoes" et revilement. If they, had proceeded
on the tidied consideration of the saltject, which be
recommended, it was probable that more of them
weorld have passed into laws. nu' the result•, even
of the Bill iotrolluz'd bi nit. S. limsail.y, which wel
agreed to by tie other Loaseyabe abject or which was
to take away c•oitsl ponl.liant :It froth the °Mince if
Mealiog 'tritely', from the person, sod to make it •
tiens;ottebbirefceace. were nos arch as to rensem
mood any similar proceeding. That Bill pealed !eve
a law •boat fear jean ego. By sit relents for the
last ten jest,. II appeaseJ, that the number of per.l
sons charged wit► sad convicted of the crime, had
increased in a greater ratio than that tiewther of
thole cheesed with and convicted of any other crime.'
There were eherged with that crime, in 1810, 136 ;;
In 1811, 194; in ii•u.1,'224; 411814.272; in 1814,
311; in 1815, '277: in 401; in 11517 i.
etr7 ; sod in 1818, 531. Teem were convicted
of t►at crime, la 1810, 64 ; in 1811. 83 in 1812,!
78 ; in 1813. 136 ; in 1814, 467 ; ire 1815. ;
in 1816, 234; in 1817,847; andio letB, 262. It
appeered, therefore, that the new missive hid bad
no practical result; bet that the particular crime its
qeestion had increased in the period of the last tee
years, in the proportion of between filer and five to
one. Untie& the enquiry proposed by the Nonevent-
ble aced Learned Gentleman were to be ectitaled to
the nature of the secondary punishments, it must be
u:itstisfecter) ; fir of the 13,C.v0 Ciii:dri3ll wi►h
which ear jilt wet. aneuelly crowded, on leg than
10,M0 .rte of the class I' which these ponishments
wire inapplicable. lie hail no conception that there
were, us eletod b) tee ilenourntert and Learned
Geotienosts. '2OO felonious openers. Blsoy of the
%nacre, however, on that !Orient were obsolete,
aid their ahsolrte remove; from the "tratete Book
was a matter of little impertatire. Torre might be
otheis shin of the fantastic therartrr de.etibed by the
Honourable end I,^rrner.l (;.'.Armen—feel as the
Black Art—bot surely them was no pve!sere for
their immediate repeal. If the limeourable and
Learner' Gentleman's ircumenti were us conciselye
es they appeared to him to be otherwise. nett branch
of the question, the practical and the abstract. tight
tile to a Committee; bet teen in that case the fctoer

ought l• precede the latter ; the substitute /hand
be considered before the alteration. Bet Ise (Lord
C.) contended that Ibe whole enquiry should be car:
tied on by the same peruse, and not dispersed
among various hinds, the result of which woold mt.
oes..lily be partial end limited. lie roald not per-
suade himself that the enquiries of the Commit ter ap-
pointed last night would occupy a rest event of
time. Ile did mot think they eight to charge them-
selves, for instance, with an elimination into the
state of ., jail, bet en the contrary, he thought
they shoold look at the 'object in a larger point of
view, for the papa* of establishing general pried-
plcs to be acted en either by the Crown or by the
Legislator,. So with respect to the secondary
penishments, they ought to look at the question
largely, as statesmen, sod endear''r to metals
what eltuellen in the general character of those
penithments was likely to be beneficial. Ile saw sae
reason why all this might not be satisfactorily ac-
cemplished in the present, or at furthest, its the
nett Session. The ulnae mould decide between the
two courses. He felt it his duty to move the presi.
nes question on the motion made by the Hon. sad
Learned Gentleman, not from soy wish to oppose
him, but because he thought the appointment of the
Committee of last night was the step most calculated
to lead to advantageous results.
Mr. BUXTON thought It impossible that the Com-
mittee appointed cooed enquire into the state of all
the prisons; the whole Police; the hulks, tramper-
Ution, and a new colony of the Antipodes, if they
were to enquire else Into the state of the Widest
Law. The want of religious instruction was the
great cause of the hurtles' of crime. lie hoped the
House would ague to send the enquiry into the Cr,.
mina! Code to a distinct Committee, as be was of
opinion that oar Criminal Laws did greatly teed to
increase of crime. He compared ten years at ono !
time and leo at another, in which the number of
the capital contictious had increased in a propor-;
lion of between four and Ave to one. More crimes
bad been declarOd capital in the reigns of the Bruns.
wicks, than in the reigns of the Plantagenet., all
the Tadao, and all the Stuart,. Taira were per- I
sons new living, who were in glistened when the
capital offences amounted to GO, anti in the short '
Space of the life of man, they bad seen them qua-
drupled. Seventeen offences were made capital at
once, one of which was the shooting at a man ; ano.;
tber the killing of a rabbit; the third, trying to horn
a men In his bed, aid the fourth, cutting down heady
of ish-poods. Lately, when a man wasnreatell for
forgery, the promisee charged the law as murderous ;
for they called out that she man was murdered ; and •
be thought they charged the law justly. In his opi-
nion, the severity of the law had raised up a power ;
In this coaetry which abrogated the law, by produc-
ing encertaiety of punishment to the criminal. He
did justice to the Judges and the Goterement for
their willingness to mitigate punishment ; but what
did this prove? why, ooly that we were saved howl
the severity of our own law by the lenity of Mi.,
sisters. The laws spinet Nat West bankrupts and
forgery bad operated greedy to the Injory of trade.
He instanced she cases of two Grottoes's of the;
greatest mercantile dealings (there net being ten men
in the kingdom of more), who suffered two persona;
to go unprosetuted for forgeries on them. Cardinal
Wolsey said, that the Juries of his time were sea !
blood.tbiraty that they would find Abel guilty of
the murder of Cain ; the Juries were now eactly
the reverse, for actin: to the severity of oar law, it
was almost impouible to obtain a conviction. One
Jury had found a person guilty of stealing to the !
amoont of 395. when he had stolen 81. its notes, and
some bills of exchange. A man had pot his breeches
ander his heed to keep his money safe, and in the
eight a thief sowed the room, took the mousy, *rid
repisced the breeches. The Jay found him guilty
of stealing, bat lint in the dwelline.hoess. Now,
to mike sense of that, the breeches must have
been temoseil out s.f the house to be tobi:ed,
soil, when that was done, returned to its former
piece. Ile said, that from Parliamentary doer.
mats, it could b. s..tus that it was ten to one
that an tut:oder was not lz.ken, fifty to *no that
he was not proseuscpil. a hundred to one that he
sr • 4 not cnntieted, and snore It In a thousand to one
that he was not eseteitert. The effects of esece.ion
were neat le aolliing, enrreny one might satisfy him.
,elf of that from the &India and "mien of those
present at such Visible eshibitioas, and.the prisoners
themselves always still, suer an • lion, " Well,
we can't pity him, he is one in heaven ;" 'bashes,.
ing that no effect was produced on them, lie appealed
tePtlitePelitions of those *Pry mess who'were she
rubel losers by depredations, who wets the 'waded
is steaming a revision of oar Penal Lawe. beasethine
must be done, and it ought to be submitted tee sepia
rate Committee.

Mr. COUIZTIA Y. in in argnmenlatice nitwit, slated hit
reasons for not secrtling to the to.olion of hes 1t... and ttarat/
I recast (bir J. Mackintosh).
Mr. LAW3I/4 spoke agalott the motion of Sir James Mac-
intosh.

SION itAUN T MB id , hr should wort decidedly tioohr
file proposilios or the Hon. and Learard Geollersito (Sir J.
alseintoch).
Mt J. BM 14 deci Iced shot he olloold vote for tie oboiloo
or Mr lion. and learned Frirud (Sr J. Macistoth).
Mr. LITTIR raw oisprirtert the .Minn.

Mr. r 11E1111 Lain epek♦ to f.tennr of die winder.
P. 1.. WILMOT einem+, Ihni if Miniurrs kad col rnspre.
briefed Ow selsfeelle itself ,e1ea5.•14414. he dwell hare soled for
the Hon. and Learned Heenle.nan'e =oh n.

Mr. K is as eloquent aad impressive
'perch. sappor:ed the mail n.
T A XIING eul..ei•rd hr 111211111,T in which toe
motion had been boloollirforirrorJ. hot -saw no reJuon fnr the up-
pointoieot of a Canapitte..

Mr. SCARLETT, in he alck sp.eth, ropooried the reethre.
Mr. Alderman W 001) owed. ih there newr then le New •
ente 4.3 erfeiloth seder iient•pee er ..reih end 4.;0 for Iran..
"nmersia.. mat lone Ihr erre, of the prewet systene of the
Crietteet C 047. outt of lie htile only i? W•relaileri•
The ATTI)R P. EN f. It 111.44 i-toiled the ey•lrsn.
Sir J. dAVINTONN Imielly replier', and proceeded re
reed th- nereer of Ike Mers-cn whore. Wroold he bscc,.4 is hit
sisijss.hr sn.poNli 1.. Mg/SLAW Cyr hi, ( mossetler:—
Mr. Dorherw, Atroriwy Ned Soltriior (Warfel.. Mr. Al-
dormers Wood, Lord Dr. Phollionn-. Mr. Wyatt,
Mr Unerl• 4). Mr. Mnrdon d, Mr. Scarlet, hlr. Abeicroin
hie, Mr. lint'', Intr lion, Mr. liens. it, Mr. Wilberforce.
Mr. Berrogi bird Nugent, Mr. Verse., M.. Huston, turd
Mr. llnearth.
Tire Dame hen dig Lied. when the number. et ere—
Fur the origin 1116.1140 :41—Asain.t it 1114—Me)erily 19.
hie J. MA 19 r()%11 (es we were given to understand)
...ea tworibeiesi the Meoibers Is bad formerly menlioord for Ma
Mr M. 11 PLAY fwd for an Account or Sorebarges ender
the AMC red lair.. frow the SAN April, 1618, le the 516 of
ler. ear) , 1819 —Dr& rcd.
Aeisetrred al halt peel OIC 10.041Kke

iPkesrvimsfvertisi*Vritlx.

At foil• o'clock yesterday, the following number;
were eitribited

hon. 14r. Lamb .
J. ii..lthiposi: ntll

- . -
Mr. Deettottre haptd.the free Electors would still
persevere, used odd their names to those which had
already appeared is Moe cues of liberty', whatever
' might be the ante of the cesteeta which now appear-
ed to be in heater of that morastrees coalition ; a proof
of to undeniable niter' masted that Mr. Lamb owed
his success to the friends of Sir Murray Mittwell.—
He (Mr. Ilebhouse) bad • card, hafting those who
weeld hose kind as to oblige Mr. Denis O'Brien
with their votes for Mr. Lamb, to breakfast at
the house of that hospitable friend to the Whig
caste, and from thence to attend him to the
Hustings, in order, the csid told, to gas a death
blow to seerrility. This O'Brien had been noted.
ously the most active parses in promoting of Sir MM.-
ray Maxwell, by Nisi a meet improper infisence,
from which it most be plaisly inferred that Mr.
Limb came forward, became!, Sir Murray Maxwell
' bad retreated. Ile said, Mr. Lamb bad behaved with
the gresteat tffrtmterit, in declaring that the popular
had turned away from him, because a body of
hired ruffians had interrupted the Wolin by their
noises; but it was, he observed, some consolation to
him to koow that the assertion had been made by
the some person who had stated that Sir F. B. was oo
longer held in the estimation of his Constituents. lie
knew that Mr. Lamb's popularity wu of a portable
kind, and believed that he always carried it is his
pocket. ( Laughter mod applesese.) But there is another
charge still worse: Mr. Lamb had accused him of
having professed himself of the Opposition views in
canvassing for Cambridge, sad deserted from them.
Ile contended that his conduct five years age at Cam-
bridge, was reconeileehle to the views of ao honest
aid independent Representative. He was very
'tang, end naturally admired these is the House of
Commons who opposed an inicpsitons Adininistre•
lion, from a conviction that their repugnance to the
measures of Ministers were sincere.. He bad since
learned that it was merely a contention for power
over the People, and not for their privileges, on the
one side, and agisiost them on the ether • and be had
• decided hostility to those who teral aside from
the principles they had professed, and had
made false pledges for the sale lion of mankind
Mr. liohhouse again called on the Blotters to come
up n the Poll. He 'herald have the honour of m-
h; them neat Jay.
Mr. LAMB said, his opposeols (foe he was honour-
, ed with two) bad bees ameslog the multitude with
food better calculated to ezeite their merriment, than
their serious consideration. As • specimen of the
conduct of Mr. ilohlsomee's (deeds, he should reed •
letter seat by Ike Gentleman who came forward the
day before, and complained of basing bees
anted by some penes hired against the independent
Flouters.—(This letter contained a vary decided In.
! junetino to a tradesman, and a threat of lost of cos.
; tee, in case of a Waal to vote on that side of 11.
berty.)—Mr. Lomb avid, hie predietloo, that he would
be tent to tome pass where lie should be better
beard, was seedy fulfilled. They world neat day
prove, that he bed not arrogated any thing is hint.
self, is standing as • Camlidate for their fawners.
Mr. Herr came forward, eller meth opposition,
cud paired out a arrest of abase, es tarsal, against,
Sir F. Burdett; after which the Hon. BIAONIT step.
I pal forward, aid repeated his charge against Mr.
Lamb, of hiring ruffling, and impeding the Electors
coming forward in support of his friend, Mr. Hob.
house. Sir F. Burdett felt it his duty to occupy only a
short portion of their lime, •s the Poll wra now so,
nearly at a close, and of course every moment was
valuable for the purpose of strengthening their num-
ben on the Poll. The Worthy Baronet then, after a
few observations en the speech of Mr. Limb (which
the Baronet formerly give), ri ittared that on his
\armour as a Gitatiemen, he could state, that not one
person bed bees hired on behalf of his friend's Com-
mittee, for, on the restravy, the persons who acted
es the occasion were voiontary lie was
afraid the Electors "we like a bundle of hay between
two saes, and be doubted they had lest their steal
energy. 'fo.morrew *mild he the final peek end
he trusted the Electors would do jetties to their owe
geese and the cognate. After a few ternerk• on the
conduct of Mr. Denis O'Brien, the Beremset cos.
eluded amidst much orphan with peat disapproba•
lion.