The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-03-12 00:00:00

made by • ethos its similar circumstances, re-
specting the bad .charostm. of Francis Wird.—=...
lie hed.heon desir,Costr it, hive the Petitions mutinied
by .a Committee,. but the President of the Board. of
Trade bad ontreated,thiclfoose, in the name of troth
and justice, not to destitute an enquiry, Truth sod
Justice had frequently been invoked in a sorry cause.
but tine more,sorry had. never occurred than this,
wherein no enquiry wee to take place for the disco-
very of either. Such a. denial on the part of the
Muse woo cot a good cis sufficient auswer to those
who might assert that the Hosiso.was not the Kepre-
seutatite of the Mahon, ithen,thsy proved their de-
viation from.the-good old coustitutiooal masks, that
the loose of Commons, in standing between the
People and the Crown, brad the complaints of the
former with a willing„.aod. the defence of the latter
with jealous ears.—( Loud choeriseg front the Opp.-
Hoooersble Member then shelled to,
'the alarming intimation given by his Hon. Friend of
the existence of a spirit of disaffection in the great
body of the manufacturing classes of the country,
and, ridiculed the desire. he had espressos.' of re.. 11
posing an, increased confidence in Ministers, ho
muter, who they might be, in proportion to the
,increase. of their powers. That confidence, like
the treason alluded to, might sometimes sleep, hot
should never.die; it was to belong not to the Dili-
nisiers but to the place, uninfluenced either by the
character of the oleo or the circumstances of the
country. The. oharge, however, against the manu-
facturing classes, if it proved any thing, proved too
much; it tended to show that this country was an
longer calculetad to email freedom; that it bad;
outlived the times of its free Constioutiou, when
clanger was to be dreaded from those manufacturers
who were its. legitimate produce.—(Hear, hear !)
to answer to what had Mien on a former night from'
an lion. Member (we presume llr. Fremantle),
who had spoken.of his own coniistency, and had de-
fended himself on the authority of Mr. Ponsoutty, he
begged leave, in justice to the memory of his lamented
friend, to state, that although Mr. Ponsonby had
agreed with the Committee, he totally dissented from
the subsequent measures. Mr. Pousonby was a
strenuous defender of the Constitelimi, and knew its
value too well to destroy by his vote the liberty of his
country,—[Loud cheer:l-11r (Mr. P.) held by the
'natio, that it was a gross delusion tit those who af-
fected to hold geneio• Whig principles, to abandon,
on the slightest appearance of danger, the Security of
the Constitution against the power of the Crown and
the madness of the People. His language was ever,
" and oh !" exclaimed Mr. BroiNhim, e' that he
were here to ring it in the ears of the lion. Gent."—
his langur; was, " let us preserve the Constitution
and we shall fear neither confusi,os from abroad nor
corruption within, nor the power of the Crown,"
which he dreaded more than all. The lion. Member
then adverting to the high station acquired by this
country by her free form of Governmen., added, that
if the new doctrine of confidence broached that night
11 were to be carried into eff,ct, it mattered little who
bore office. or who wanted it, it was of little im-
portance what might be the forms of the Constitution,
the substance of the thing was gone, and with it the
liberty of the country must be lost for ever.—[Laud
cheerios: from the Opposition.]
Mr. LAM BE, in explaosiion, denied that he had
attributed to the manufacturing districts any pimal
spirit of disaffection.
Mr. CANNING thought this Bill was connected
with the Susperi.ion of the Habeas Corpus Act.—The
necessity, however, of a Bill of Indemnity grew
nut of the circumstances of the country, in which
necessity the Suspetssion Act originated. This state
of the country rendered it necessary for those who
acted ender the Gov-roment, if they meant to do '
their duty—to outstrip the limits of the law. The
seine state of things that produced this necessity, in-
duced the House to mike a temporary sacrifice of
that portion of our liberties; and out of these cit.
comstances had grown tlee necessity of indemnifying
them for the acts they hid committed, and of which,
'etiey could slot make a full justification, without an
•-aposure of the evidence that had been laid before
them; that was, to indemnify them for having com-
mitted sets beyond the law, and to dispense with the,
necessity of their justifying acts in themselves, bat
legally ndt firoireoble, escept by evidence that could
Issue be disclosed. The very nature of the measure was
Ito enable Government to detain specifically any
suspected persons, without bringing them to trial --.
, [near, hear I]—Non. Gentlemen bad denied the
force of precedents ; serf he was far from saying that
titers existed a precedent corresponding in all its
parts with-that which Parliament had sanctioned.-
IBut if they looked backwards, and saw the seeds of
such a measure, they had a right to infer the litres-
, sit, of adapting them to any future exigency. They
must agree that the first year of King William was
as whiggish a year as could be found in our history ;
endive that year a Message came down to the (louse,
Mating reports of private meetiogyfor the purpose of
misting Alb/ Ames, and adding that his Majesty
had- nosed persons to be apprehended and coofined,
but was unwilling to detain them, in case he should
do any thing contrary to law. This pointed direct-
ly to the-case. "The Whigs of 1688 sanctioned the
acts committed by the Whig King; and on them
grounds, if Ministers had abused the powers which
thin-piectident furnished them with, far be it hem
[hew to ley they ought not to be called to account.—
Now, as to the Petitions, let any mats look hark to
lllPllt.Petitions, end examine how far they were borne
eel by facts. Was every matt who had been let loose,
le be alloyed to come to the bar, sod say he had
been most cruelly treated, and was the most inno-
cent of mankind, and that lot merits alone had point-
ed him nut for persecution ? There were Petitions of
1 every class, and many which imputed all that had pass-
ed to Oliver. This man was said to have gone into the
country as a delegate, but that was not strictly the fact.
Mitchell was the London Delegate, and not Oltter ;
they were both in company together—they went
down from Leaden together—and it was very re,
matkable, that the things• said of Oliver, had hap:
petted with regard to another person. Gentlemen,
who said they could prove so many things against
Oliver, merely stated, that they had respectable wit-
nesses ready to prove such and such things; acid
they dill not think proper to name one of those re-
spectable p -rums. It was said, that one Gentleman
had heard Oliver say, the Government mast be over-
turned by physical force. If this Gentleman way nob

STATESMAN._.

a.siastentity, mist he pet byre bees guilty of Mil-
risen of treason, its wet imosedietely disclosing what
e had heard, and gisine isformatiou of such treason
to the Government ? The fact was, that if such a
man existed be wished the rebellious to succeed ; bet
he wag too great a coward to assist in carrying it on.
kw Hen. Member opposite, hut, on a former night,
told a slaty of a respectable Gentleman who stated
that he had seen Oliver near the Horse-Guartknn the
(ley when the Prince Regent sent to open both
Houses of Parliament, and beard bim exciting the
populace to acts of rebellion. This was another W-
iliame of respectable authority, without any author
being named. Why did not the Honourable Member
mention the name of this person, in order that the
Public might be able to judge of his respectability,
and veracity ? If the story in question was true. he
(Mr. Canning) would assert, that this very respect
able Gentleman, was, in fact a treitor—that he
wished the insurrection to go on ; and he now hated
Oliver.becasse he was sot a traitor. —[llear, hear !]
—Then, an Honourable Gentleman had the other;
night given a History of Chips and Shavings, in order
to attack the character of Oliver. and talked of a cause
in the Court of King's 'Bench, and of an affair
bemoan arbitrator • and the House was then desired
to go in a Changed St wings Committee, to enquire into
that man's charmer. If the affairs of a country could',
be carried on with that tranquillity, which must be the
II is la of every one who respected the Government un-
der which he lived, it would be much better to do witti-
est such men as Oliver. But, when a country was
threatened with danger, from the traitorous designs
of great numbers of persons, and the extensive con•
spiracles with which those designs were intended to
be brought to maturity, he defied the utmost event
of human wisdom to devise any means by which sects
' conspiracies could be detected, except by the em-
ployment of Spies and Informers. These were the
only means by which the dodgers that threatened a
nation could be averted ; and he defied. any Gentle.
mass on the opposite side of the House to point out
the means by which a Government thus threatened
with danger could go on, without drawing its infor.
(nation from what they called polluted sources.
According to the arguments of the lion. Gentlemen
on the other side, the moment a matt gave such in-
formation to the Government he was unworthy of
being trusted or believed. A new Informer was then
to be employed to give some fresh article of infor-
mation ; then he was to be immediately dismissed,
and- another nest be employed to give an account of I
some other proceeding. Thus it would be necessary
to have a different Spy for every article of inform,.
Lion that was to be obtained, and more than ball the
mischief would be accomplished before Government
could come to a knowledge of it. All this would
happen if the history and character of every In.
former was to be enquired into; and the Informer
would be like the may described by our immor.al
134 r—
d drew
let irrg Priaw's entrain at the draft of [light,
Awl had hen half his Tray was band.
It was indeed of little use to give such information,
when half the city was destroyed by in enemy; but
if on receiving such information, King Priam, in-
stead of rising from his bed, had kept the Informer
' until he gave him a history of- his birth, parentage,
and education, he should, indeed, have pitied the
old Monarch for his simplicity and folly. Whatever
thecharactera of Informers might be, he asked the Gen.
denten other side, whether, because they might not be
as 'arteries as they wished, the councils of the Go-
t vernmeot were to be hermetically sealed against them?
He lamented that the Habeas Corpus should ever he
suspended; but when there were persons in the coon.
try who took advantage of the distresses of the lower
classes, to convert them into instruments of rebel.
lion ;—who wanted to torts the misfortunes of a day,
into the desolation of ages, it was necessary that a
new power, not usually authorized by the Consti-
tution should be directed sgairist such men ; and
these were the only persons against whom the Soo-
pension Bill was intended to operate—these men, in
favour of whom, it was contended by Hon. Gentle.
men opposite, that they should sit in the judgment
seat while the Ministers who lead endeavoured to
saveahe country from their machinations, were to be
brought to the her, and tried before them as .cul-*
piits.—(//ear!)---Did the Hon. Baronet who was
every day !eying multitudes ,rtf Petitions for Reform,
before that House, expect that he could make the
Members believe that such a Parliamentary Reform
as was asked for in those Petitions, 'was the Reform
wished for by the nation ? These Petitioners wanted
Universal Suffrages ; but lupin, they had their limits
-kg point of Universal Suffrage; for in their envy,
they excluded females, and excluded the insane from
the right of voting. He would now ask who were
she best friends of the People, whom Ministers were
accused of reviling—these who told them that they
had wrongs which most be redressed, or those who
told them that they had rights, and, at the same time.
that they had duties to perform t Nothing had been
inculcated by their pretended friends into the minds
of the People, but a hatred to the Government.—
The Prop!e were told that ell their grievances trot*
out of an imperfect Representation in Parliameot.—
They did not believe any such thing; their pretended
friends wanted to make them instruments to pull
down every thing above them.
Mr. LAMBTON, pledged his honour that be
could prove the fact be stated respecting Oliver.—
The Gentleman who gave. him the information. was
in the otercetaile professioso—he was a person of
respectability ; and after he witnessed the conduct of
Oliver, he did mention it to several persons; but be
did not go and tell Lord Sidusnoth of the fact, be-
cause Oliver was employed by Lord S:dmootb.—
( Hear, hear t)
Mr. CROKER asked, why, when Proclamations
wt:re issued, offering rewards for offenders on the
day in question, did not this person of respectabi-
lity go and give such informatiou as Wield serve to
,bring the offender to punishment ? For all the
miseties Oliver had inflicted on his felloW-rreavores,
those were answerable who did not stop him in his
career, when they knew he wall committing crimes.
Those persons alone were auseetable for the crimes
of Oliver.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose amidst loud cries of
" Qeestion, question," and advanced several argu-
ments aeaUst the Bill. He said that the corn p ions
of Parliament, the extravagance of Goverumete. the
distresses of the People,- avid the large Mi:itarz Esti-