The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-06-27 00:00:00

Counsel at the Bar of the !louse, who could seppoet her in the hands of one Member tbaii another. 11i. would I
claims by stronger arguments than any which he could arr. say, Kketrial,, with reference to those who filled the situ-
hr
would decline saying any thing were et present, than to alien Of the King's confidential servants, that it would
move that the petition do lie on the table. ill become them to present petitions against measures
The Loan Unasetiion cone down trans ores the wool- $3.1441 they hail themselves advised.
seek, as he felt himself called upon by the statement of the Tier Marquis of lastssnowN argued that, although
Noble Lord, to assure the Meuse, that it was not from any aireuntstances might make it sometimes noire eligible
feeling of disrespect, or any personal rewire whatever, that for one Noble fused to present a petition than another,
he had been swayed in declining to present the petition, but t there seat no perpetual distinction on account of
be owed a duty, i great duty to the House, while he Itrullhe and sitnation which was held Ity any of their Lordships.
honour of presiding there. whieb was oteesenet total*/ The Noble and Learetesl Lord held duties as a Peer
dividunl consideration ; and that feeling he was peetretwil
p
resenting the petition, thinking it wo ldiklat non). ry- *which be could not relinlnish --duties which were cum-
from pmoil to all their Lordships ; and when the Learned
per that any other Noble Lard should peviben that °lke,
than one who sat in the place which he had the howowe 41.0101 was called to the Woolsack by the K
ment in the
King, he was
oeenpy. Ile was rot actuated by any motive dlarespeetht snit bound to discharge his duties i• Parlia
to the illustrious person on whole part It was preferred. 11 . ate manlier as every other Peer. lie therefore folk
could take the Ithetty of stating, that he had not throe ad" nsiarred in the opinion stated by his Noble Friend,
noes to consider the subject: 100 in that thine he had deetts-* Ater, at the same tinier be wished to lie under-too :1 as
sarily come to the conclusion, that it would he afire coral- resting the t remote reflection tin the motives of
sistent with propriety. that the petition should be presented
by any ott*r Noble Lord, in preference to himself. Ile did iletitien,
the bitable and Learned Lord in declining to present the
not, besides, know what mode there wss ofvereivlng a peti- r-
a frhe Lotto CnAscn.Lnn. in rajah:nation. said_ he wt`
'ltil4l2*.lidlibiliellin.rileitthmal ed.r.u,Alolll stra(444Zr that fank•rallo "tough - ) nsOle that he came to that Howie to di-charve till the
dent en taamw-hlch- It wtoas- Eir .antleed: —lie ha"ter bli.fore* obeealt:Yhtveee'amed 1 o eges 011 ter
411111114 "*.and claim ad tite ••I f P of Parliaisnie.
But he had another duty still to perform, of perfort *Viet
by Noble Lords, for losing refused to present a letter from
the same illustrious person. lie wished to hare dune it :
_, , ,_ ,:,
i iortance. anti that was to respect the forms of the iftmset
hut in loolinw through their Lordships' Joarpals. he foieul asst
drat time, et7easro"r"iser he ofi knee. of orr
mr:lchea• pllet7riotal"b.64:::
he was not justified. lie was similarly cireumstaneed at the
present. Ile would say but a few words spot the so.int_ presrated to their l4rd-lips ;
consideration which was allowed him, he did come to the
if he had erred. it eras not out of disrespect to the exalted and after the three minutes
petitioner ; hut it was In observance of a sense of solemn conclusion, that the forms of tlw itunse rendered it less pro-
public duty ; and he would rattier suffer death thas net Pe? f°y• him to present it than any
tni IA tw in error. but, good (it'd t aas lie to he told that his
other Noble Lord. the
against his conviction on a Constitutional principle. lie
refusalg a
as
,ii,.!3fra b)
rel.
--total neuthes, because he had
was nut aware how far it was consistent with precedent that
ived. but as it W 24 his decided thonght it not comunint wit h his dui y,foatt the situat is in which
the petition shOuld be rece
opinion that a person of that rank should be enabled some be had the honour Cu hold, to bring the petition htfOre their
how or other to sppruncli the House, he would nut object to Lordships. lie rout.% asimre them that nothing of that kind
shoed ever influence him in, the course of the.proreedines.
its reception. lie milf.ht be lti error. but lie shoulul 81%21 4 let cow:rico-
that haul be infringed the

Earl Gm observed, that no person could •. the
Noble and Learned Lord on the woolsack always acted
under the sense of a faithful and conscientiors dlscbarg,of
his duty in that House, and upon may other omission. lie
was convinced that no other motive but a feeling of %kat
his duty required of him, could hair prevented him from
being the bearer of the petition which had been presented
by his Noble Friend. Rut he (Lord Grey) spelt! be per-
mitted to state why he could not agree Is the view which ;le
took. In this instance. of his duty. It was his opinion that
the Noble and Learned Lord'had not, by the She'AM% Caleb
he filled en the woolsack. any duty to perform diferrut
from that of other Noble Lords, when requested to piesent
petitions from subjects complaining of wrung and injery.-r-
There was no such distinction as had been jam now de-
scribed between the Learned Lord and others. in such a
case. lie (Lord Grey). bad he been in the same situation,
and baring but one minute forconsialrration, woill.l hate
been satisfied that, in molting to present the petition, hr
sysield not act contrary to the forw, or disrespectfully to-
wards the character of the House. but would hate feit him-
self bound, without pledging himself to any opluiun on the
• to I- the -

doubt that

tiously ; nn:l he must obserev.
forms of the Douse by acting as he was now told be-ought
to hare done, Ore Noble lor-I nod the Noble Baron would.
in a gentle soy. Anse taken upon themselves to in..trind
Lim
iu the be er performance of his duty.
'lie Martini-sof f.ssisnowN and Lord Botts' is t•Npinined.
The petition of her Majesty was then revived, and read
by the Heading Clerk at The table, as follows :--
`• Tu TIII: SPIRITUAL AND TEMPORAL IN
PAHL! 11$1 TNT assEttli.ets.
" %ROUSE R.
`• The Weill busing been informed thst proreeilinrs are
about to be instituted rt2inst her in the Howse of Lords. feels
necessary to approach your Lord.bips as a petitioner an.l
a fellnw tobjei t. She is milked. that. seeurding to the
forms of your Lordships' House. no other mode of commu-
nication is permitted.
" Now, as at all times. the declare,: her perfect eeniliness
to meet every charge afteting her honour: and she chat-
" the most complete intestigation of her conduct,
protests, in the first plum. against any Secret (n-
-and if the Douse of Lonls should. ootwithstand-
mist in a proceeding so contrary to every pin-
justice and of law, she must, in the next place.
AM even from such an unewistitutioaal course
vs nothialelll apprehend, wiles!' it he
the arrisal of those witnesses whore she
will summon immediately to expose the whole of the waehina -
bons against her. She is anxious thst there should now be
no delay whatever in finishing the inquiry; and none shall
be occasional by her Majesty. Rut the Quern cannot sup-
pose that the House of Lords will commit so cry lag an in-
justice as to authorise a secret examination of her conduct in
the absence of herself and her Counted, while her defence
must of:stiffed) rest upon esidenee whiL'h for some weeks
cannot reach this country. The instant that it arrives she
will entreat the House of Lords to proceed in any way they
may think consistent with the ends of justice: but in the
mean time, aid before the first step is taken. her Majesty
desires to be heard by her Counsel at your Lordships' Bar
this day upon the 'abject matter of the Petition."
Lor.ll)xece then rose and snid, that the petition had been
put into his hands an short a period before bepresented
it to their I.orciships, that he had only time to read Relief.
with a flew to ascertain that there was nothing in its lan-
guage or expressions contrary to the rules of the Hons..
11 ith regard to its contents, be %tumid abstain from making
any obsereetions, and content hiintelf w ith moving. that the
Con's., be now called to their Lordships' bar. according to
the prayer of the petition.
The motion was immediately pet and carried.
After a short delay. Mr. Brougham, Mr. Denman. and
Mr. Williams. presented themselves at the bar of the House.
Mr.Baononios Ise.tun by stating, that he had the honour
to appear before their Lordships as Counsel for her Majesty
the Queen. Ile nnderstood that their Lordships had sio•
swered that part of her Majesty's petition which prayed t•
be further heard by her Coulter!. by sev ing they world hear
her Counsel now ; mud however it might be better fur the
interests of his Illusfiddla Client that he should entreat a
few hours delay—sensible how feeble went his powers:see
how inadequate be dsotdd be, with all the a/isotopes el
preparative, to discharge so Important a duty, yet be had
it in euinwand from the Exalted Individual in whosrifehtif
be appeared, to proceed, whatever might be his pelmet's,
difficulties, and even at the risk of caerilleing some portion
of her Interests, retiverenetrby a moment's procrastinstioe
glee the slightest occasion for any one to suspect ditillthe
could wish for daisy. Ile said this because he was post
motion to Impress upon their Lordships: because, Ifigt.
her Majesty felt it necessary they should be
co
Mat nothing was further from her wishes than
'vulgar sense of the espre...ion. She ha.l not the diebledt
desire to stop the progress of inquiry. because she was age-
slide that Inquiry must inevitably lead to !lynx:rabic sale*.
'Il. liming said thus meth to guard her istajesty fium 11141
possibility of being misunderstood, in the application wl
lie
was now about.to make in her name. he stumid proofed
to state. that bar Majesty felt it necessary to her justification
In the itoptiry about to be entered r.pon, that time should be
showed to briorther a number of witnesses front the Conti-
nued ; confident their Lordships would accede to
ibis ?WOOL because all the principle* of jostle, mist be
Itietthretler deisticr before their Lordships could be advised
deny delay for such s purpose. lien Majesty 'ICOMIaeI et
liar had aright to know that se iagniry was about to be
made Into her conduct during her resideree ist•extil. from
Message which had been sent to both Houses MP arliatnent
on thesubject, accompanied wish a sealed bag. which was
presumed to contain evidence deeply stetting the character
of that Illustrious Personage. Now. whet was the nature
tit that evidence. sod who were the tools that had thrtped
that evidence together. was not for him at that time to in-
spire; it was enough for him to know that, whether the cot.
hag werepere, and worthy to be received heron'
Tribunal. or whether theg were in their ester*
11011111 S. and detratable; they could only be meant to
lefiernething which was done. or falsely and acands-
'Reglad to have been done by her Majesty wines oh •
was living stetood. Now. it was knows that, is the
"tided to, ler Majesty resided • lea( way hove dot leksioes4!
As had orsotos fie Aids and po Appesia“, sitt

the same.
The Loan CIIANCTLLOR said. it was his sincere wish to
avoid saying many words upon the subject. But a hat had
been stated by the Noble Lord who haft just croken. had
been frequently maintained by other Noble Lords on the
same side of the House. If their flew was the proper one,
the majority of that House had hut to inform him (the Lord
Chancellor) of it, and it they imposed duties much araater,
be was satisfied. 'llse House lied but to tell him his dot).
mod he would faithfully discharge it. lie again saiii,thal al-
though he had no objection to reaching the petition. yet he
was not aware that any petition of that kind had e‘er before
horn presented. He repeated, that he hail but three minutes
*consider of it, but, on subsequent reflection. be did not
&lei that he had slolated his own duty, or forgotten his lay.
to the House. '
Lord llott.ann bore testimony to the ronscientions
wanner in which the Noble and Learned Lord tlis-
*barged his duties. But he could not help saying. that
be concurred with Isis Noble Friend (Lord fiery) as to
his view of what those ditties were. It was his opinion,
that the ditties which the Nolole Lord performed. when
rising from the woolsack. were to be regulated as those
of every other Member of that Honer. tine thing was
of great importance, that their Lordships should appre-
hend that no petition, coming through Isis hands. (viola
receive force or authority, in any other way, than from
his judgment and learning, if lie favouretfits pram—
but not from his bring the organ of the House. Iles he
was convinced, that he acted on this as in every other
instance. from pure, delicate, and honourable motives.
He had forgotten, however, that all Peers of Parliament
were equal. No Member of that (louse could address it
with greater authority than another—if his rink con-
ferred on him the power of doing so. It would he oh
structice of the firedom of debate. Nothing canto, be
inferred from a petition haring been presented by any
lone Peer, mere than would follow from its being pre-
sented by another. The Noble and Learned Lord hod
spoken of the dilleolties which the subject bruit
with it. He (Lord Holland) believed that he was -
reet in stating. that he had searched the Journal, In
yams for a precedent of a petition from a Queen of llaj-e
land to that Hesse. Hot when there was no other iii
of impeaching the Mime but through a petition
seated by bv a ?fable Lord, it might have been es well if
that pethiois had been remotest by the Noble Lord alto
tad ins beet applied to. As to the amnions respert-
hog the letter, it 'did not apply to the present case.
such a letter nteht lucked receive soave authority Isla
that mode of smatoutnication, tont it was otherwise pith
a petition. Ile could not pay that compliment to the
situation which the Nor and Learned Lord held in
that House, as to suppose that he could present a petb
lion on any other grounds, than as a Member of that
House performing a duty in Misplace. as it might be
performed by any other. The situation was not in that
respect of the smallest importance.
The Earl of Livsstroot; said, that he agreed In the
propriety of receiving the petition, upon the clear path-
' lie principle, that every subject, from the lowest to high-
est, all had access by petition to that House. lint he
could sot agree is what had fallen from the Haw
Lords opposite in the eourae of their observations *paw
the opinion. pronounced by the Noble and Learned.
Lord on the Woolsack. He admitted, that all Peeve
• equal in thole ditties and privileges as lards
t, and if Individuals had no access to the
Hoiterrhot through Me Peer. he would cone y& that
that due Peer should be soder a peremptory oldie %thin
to 'remit his petitios. Br.. there were particular cir-
cumstances which might make a petition more --

SUII 1/VI•m1. ••••••••• r—..,„•••„ -• .
ease. of which. indeed, he was yet ignorant, to lay the r- leuges tl
tltion on their Lordships' table. The House was open to all Rut the I
petitioners who approached it respectfully. and it was the
duty of every Member to give access to their prayers. The 418111'
Noble arid Learned Lord steed ender a mistaken notion of the ing, per
Were of his ettration there. without being iu the ski teat eiple of
degree influenced bgasy hipierlty of seeti‘e. He arrow.,
avoid saying thus gar & gyms the impropriety of the
111
lion which had been drawn between one l‘teratier of Ore `'w
caa
Howse and other individuals, whose duties were precisely toted Is