The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-02-23 00:00:00

prcmi

for. He would readily allow, that Jerks
• the population of the Peninsula might dreadfully
. harass the enemy, and might, in a course of years,
ultimately expel their base and crud invader.
Hut what could he greater folly than relying upon
their levies as a regular army, and stationing theta
In situations where they must he placed ire lisle with
ties British trodps, and opposed to a Vrench army ?
• It was this absurd reliance upon an imaginary
*ray that formed no small part of the miscon-
duct Of Ministers. Ministers bad thus sacrificed
11,000 mess, and now the House was to he calk!
npon to sanction them in saerifieina 12,000 more.
Nothing could more deeply show the miscondl;ct
of Ministers in wasting the resources of the cows.
try than the fact, which was beyond dispute, that
in March last 16,000 effective mess could not be
faund for ahe purposes of the exnedition then in
contemplation, and this after breaking up the mi.
• litia and raising the peasantry of the country to
4.111 up the ranks of the troops of the line. .And
yet, notwithstanding this, notwithstanding the
• sacrifice of thu army of Sir John Moore, of
Lord Wellington's army, • and of Lord Chat-
' ' Men's army, they were now to be called upon
fur the sacrifice of another army, with the same
contempt of all experience, with the same waste-
ful disregard of the resources of the country, and
with dm same hopelessness of success that hail
characterized all the expeditions and enterprizes of
his Majesty's Ministers. They were surely then
at least called iron lo inquire, before they sanc-
tioned this stew enterprize; if they could at all con.
sent to place *gaits in the hands of Ministers the
disposal of any part of those resources which they
kad so uselessly sacrificed. His Lordship con-
eluded by moving an Amendment, to leave out all
the words of the Address, after the word e' that,"
and to insert words intimating, after thanking his
Majesty fur the communication, that the House
ould proceed without delay to examine the do.
cements before them, with a view to the object
mentioned in his Majesty's Message.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought, that with
the opinions expressed by the Noble Lord, the
snore simple and direct course would kayo been Cut
have moved at once fur an address to bis Majes-
ty, praying that he would dismiss his Ministers.
The Noble Lord, it is true,-had not actually de-
clared that the Peninsula ought to be abandoned
to the enemy ; but the sentiments he had uttered
tended directty to -M it- -point ; • stud what- 'else
could be the meaning of that appeal, which he
beside to those who were bearing the burdens
necessarily imposed for the wants of the country,
and to the relatives of those who hall been killed
in the actions which had taken ;dace. The
Noble Lord contended, that the Tagus was
the most eligible place that could be selected for
the first landing of our force, with a view to effect
the end desired, and to promote the interest of our
tallies. The enemy was by our force thriven from
Portugal le three weeks, and a country set free,
from which wo had reason to calculate upon re.
ce:iviog material aid fur the common object. If
disappointed in these calculations, that disappoint.
newt was not the fault of the British Gsverotnent,
or the aritish army. But the fact was, that we had.
trot soy material or lasting disappointment to de.
plots ps Portugal ; for the spirit of the people of
that cinnstry was proceeding rapidiy in the display
of its puwerand zeal. A strong force, not less than
16,000 men, wascollecting, and dsiciplining under
the direction of General Beresford ; and as to •
services derived from Villiors, he was enabled
to stale, that that Gentleman was found to be
ugtrensely faithful, zealous, and active in the sm.
aieu of 14a coan:ry. "knew poOilig person.
•

he li

,1*

1144-1!)fit•,!-!:44L

THE .s.ri

ITitiM AN.


, . • :-
ally of that Gentleman, certainly not so mach
as the Noble Baron who bad alluded to him ;'
but he could bear the most satisfactory tes-
timony to the perPtirmance of his duty. With
'seised to- the question immediately under the
consideration of the House, the Noble Lord'
thought there iris no other•alternative than' to
abandon Portugal altogether,- or to agree to the
Address, and thus enatile his Majesty to main.
' lain a -force for itte defence. That such a force
would tend to liherate the Peninsula, he was .not
prepared to say [a cry of heir, hear!] ; but
although it could not accomplish that desirable
object-=would Noble Lords, would those parti-
cularly who, not long since, professed to sympa-
Ithize in the feelings and wishes of the people of '
Portugal, recommend that they should, be'desert-
-0(1 by, this country, upon whose gratitude they
had such strong claims, while even a chance re-
, rnsined of rendering them any service—while it
was even possible to afford them protraction ?
As to the assertion that nothing had resulted to
this country from its interposition in the affairs of
1 the Reniniigla, but disaster and expense, he would
ask, whether we had 011%14 nothing in point of
J
character ? Was it nothing to refute the calumrOes
i propagated throughout Ettrope and the world, by
the insidious industry of the common enemy, by
the irrefragable tesstimonics of valour, fidelity, and
1 zeal for the cause of our allies 9 which marked our
COlitinet from the moment that interposition took
place? ..
The Earl of MOIR.A said, that if the question.
between the adoption of the Address and tbo
Amendment, were such as the Noble Secretary of
State had assumed--if no other alternative was
left than the abandonment of Portugal, or the
rejection of the Amendment, be had no hesitatitM
' in stating, that be would be among the first to re-
' ject it. But the nature of tho Amendment wit%
quite misunderstood by the Noble Secretary. It
Appeared to him to call merely for inquiry, and the
arrangement of a different system of policy for the
conduct of the war. If that system had correspond-
ed with his views, heshould have continued to main.
Fain the sentiments which he had on a former-occa-
sion expressed upon the subject of Spain. Every
moments rellectiun, itnleed, satisfied him of the jus-
tice of these sentiments.—But yet the Noble Lord
wasmot entitled to call on him for support, because
the conduct of his Government did not correspond
with those sentiments. The propriety of interfer-
ing in the concerns of Spain, and the manner of di-
recting that itteerfrirence, were quite distinct ques-
.tions ; and sorry lie was to find, that much as he ap-
t proved of the former' he sew nothing but what he
must censure in the latter. Instead of encouraging
and promoting the cause of Spain, that ceuse seem-
ed, nutter the direction of Ministers, beta secondary
abject, Instead of taking such a position in Spain
as might afford, not only to the people of that,
1 country, but grey of the subjects of the enemrisite
irate(' in the same cause, a strong rallying point,
our army was sent to aa extreme point, where,' in
fact, it had scarcely to calculate upon meeting any
formidable elerny. WAS this the
-cause of wisdom
and valour ? ‘Vhat, he would put it tUtheir Lord.
ships, should we say of a Russian Getterel,• who,
being ordered to invade England, made a lauding,
iind attempted even to establish hinaselo in Cheshire,
instead of approaching the itintre of thia country,.
instead of venturing to the ticistity of the capital ?
What would the Russian Calaniet be likely tea think,
of such an oteer ,? ' • Yet the course which, under
an enlightened Cabinet; ens Commander of our
army took in the Peninsula, WAR precisely. Ow
similar nature. He entered Portugal when he
ought to have fended its Spain. But when Bona.
parte had proceeded to attack Austria, there were
two lines of poticy.marked out for our Ministers,
neither of which, • though obvious, did they think
proper to follow. They aught to have promptly
aided Austria, or availed themselves of the Aus-
trian war to expel the French force from 'Spain.
But they attempted nothing that wisdom could
sanction; or the country approve. Every thing
indeed which they did attempt was marked by int-
prudence and mismanagement; their whole career
betrayed, as the universal opinion of the public
pronounced, a total want of judgment, foresight,
and *lour; and, as the climax of error, they
now seemed resolved to defend Portugal, accord.
ing to a plan of defence, too, wllich was perfectly
impracticable. For it was utterly ridiculous to
suppose, that the ideas of the Couot lit Lippe,
as to. the practicability of defending Portugal
from invasion, could now be relied upon. In
fact, nothing cou;tl be gained • from the 'attempt,
and the danger was certain. We should bastion'.
ed to retain Portugal,under onr preseot system, just
so long as Bonaparte, thought proper. Yet the
patriots of that system, the present Mioialers, still
called fqr confidence ; and amidst 11;1 the salami.
ties accumulated uuder their auipicesi they .had
still the 'hardihood to speak of gaining fur the
country.. " But I would ark," said the Noble
Lord, " What have they gained ?," • The Noble
Secretary of Stale boasta-tivat: apor-eur try has
obtained a higher character than at ever possessed
before in Europe, which, by the way, I deny.
But I would ask hint has he gained his object ?
Hes he reduced the power power of the enemy ?
If I were to ask • a chess-player whether ho had
won his game, and he were to answer me that he
had gut a rook, or that he had got a bishop,
wlAt thank! I think of ids answer ? Pre-
cisely as I do of that of Ministers to this House,
who, when Asked whether, they have won their
game with' the enemy, reply, that they have gainecl
honour, laurels, and fame; that still they are
beaten—they have lost their game—for the last two
years they have gained. nothing. Their 4W-
nistration has, in fact, been merked by the de,
faioation of evert.? fOreign hope, and the reductiou
'ircry domestic reassaseow-they who vaunted of
e aaohntion to protect and likerate the Conti.
ncnt, Awe* only succeeded in bringing deoger
close to our own Ono-es—and why ?, Because they
sacrificed their: i+l4end the ieteresta of their
county4o their pefselitl ambition, and personal
cupidity. Whily thaix &veered the country with
their taa...gatherors and siffersisors, who ,were al-
most as great nuisances as the plagues of kieypt,
they aggravated the. insults and injuries they m-
Hicled upon th% people, by o)ost wantooly.swimi.

1

e.
;011viegrn7einnit"conaldoolts:
that Ira,' .461* 'could not be too dealer!.
.romislence! I was,
-.....i5ti.
tiering the produce of their exactions. Yet, thmo, to be iierhiall Istlgocit
were the Ministers who called fee
—lie was certain that he was, ;peeking the
language of ninety-nine out of a huodred of the turity and strength, ria
whole population of thecountry, when he aliert. ice of the country,a
H
ed, that such Ministers deserted feprubatietkandl rested upon. this p • E. 14
puniihment. , - •i! • I 'hat the Spanish rl4
-
Lord SIDMOUTH disapproved of the conduct' over the attacks of lis,
of Ministerk but yet he could not agree' to . the-
Amendment, because it appeared to him to in..
vole° a-prOposition for
.the abaudunment of Pur-
tugal, to which the utmost.possible support was
due frinn this country. Recollecting the °blip.
tions due to Portugal, and the policy pursued to-
wards that country in 1762, ho could t.iscver con-
sent to abandon it while any struggle could be
made for its protection. He would therefore con.
tide on such an occasion as the preseut, not to
Government, for he did not think it entitled to
confidence, but iu any eersons invested with the
'functions ,of Government, trusting to their re.
sponsibility for the conduct,thev pursued.
' The' Marquis.of LA NiDOVir.NE expressed his
surprize at the allusion of his Noble Friend to the
' policy pursued in 1762, when the circumstances
of the country and of Europe were so materially
different, if nest directly the reverse of what they
• wore at the'present day...when we had a vigorous
Administration at home, and an important hide-
' ence abroad. It was, he felt, somewhat singular,
,that upon the very same premises- that were stated
by his Noble Friend, he should come to (elite an
. opposite co:tclusion ; for he could not reconcile
it to his mind to reposeany confidence in Ministers,
who, according to his Noble Friend's confession,
I were not entitled to it—[lleur, hear .9—he could
i not trust to the judgment or respousibiliry of men
-whose misconduct had involved the country in a
series, of disasters and disgrace—lint it seemed
that they had some Intention of taking a new
: course—so it appeared were the Portuguese, for
they were beginning •tts form an army. He had
heard of an olitPhilesopher, who observed, that it
was the characteristic of a foolish man to be always
beginning, and he vould not help applying the
observation to the beginnings of Ministers and the But,
Portuguese army ; fur himself he had toi liesita. idiltirliw:p.-.
don in stating, that rortugal ought not to be re- searetiraneh
I tained ; that nothing but danger and loss was to Moroni For.,
ibe calculated upon. front We attempt.; and that Bteiriko ev .'arlisip
11. !,Itaioke .i.:iiwttnr
auy delay to abande a it .could only reat.upon the i:irksome Ilianaferd.
• same irresolute, culpable polity, WhiCh'prothiced I.ravhroke 8/...‘coe thawed I.:4liipiiirent ' et. Aatp.0 _ •
Mendip
• so much mischief in the retention of Walcheren i, Cork and Orsent Potois '
after the imp.ossilsility of holding it without more _Glees • *Sowers.
__ •
sacrifices than it was worth, becameluiteglaririg.
• Lord HAItROWIiY Acpreciited the ideal of
tying this hands of Minister's, while they were
. permitted to held the functions of •Goverftit.
If they were unworthy to he trusted, let all ink
dress - for (heir dismissal from office he at once
brought forward; bust while they retained office,
let it not be attempted to injure. the country and
them by depriving them of the Means of diseliarg.-
their public duty. If it were determined 'to
abandon the Peninsula, it ought to be done at
made, and the Portuguese left to , make the best
1 terms they- could with the enemy.' "Bet. if the
i Portuguese were to be protected, this cute pro.
i posed by the- Address was • intlispenvible •to that
protection: No doubt should be aliowetrto exist
I upon such•a subject. The Noble Lord-then'pre-
i ceeded to animadvert upon the adMinistration of
: thou who were so antliows to displeee the present
• Ministers, and couelutied with oVseevingi tlbot•if
• these persons were to succeed in their object, the
-country could not, from their teenier conduct,
• he very sanguluein its hope of their capacity to
manage expeditions, or to peoluale-asmarfoeCiettlii-
tluence.
Lord ERSKINE begged their Lordships Ito
reflect, that nut merely the conduct of Ministers.
but thee of their Lordships themselves, winintlW'
trial on this occasion ;-and-.the probable Vet**. lir
that trial, 'before an enlightened-country, seaslek.i
titled to .the most serious consideration. Minis.
ters, it appeared, pursued the old course' upon
Ithis occasion. Instead pf vindicating, themselves,
they endeavoured to criminate their predecessors.
But if their predecessors were reailyisletiminal,
why do not those Ministers; who „irxst in posses.
siun of every information and doctsetent-roferrinie
to their official conduct, do their duty, and mile.
that miniiiiality the subject of prosecution? 'Phis;
however (said the Noble Lard), was not their ()b.-
? jest: They did nor waist to vindicate the cause
of the public, but to get into our places; and
how have they acted in those places? Their con-
duct,. particularly in retaining Walcheren,
after the main' object of the Expedition' was
found unattainable, wait (nest criminal. It was, I
will soy, as a lawyer, a murderous act. And yet
they challenge, it seems, a motion for their dismis-
sal. Such a motion is, lisrlecit's stispelided over
tiitir heads, and God knOwe it is of little cruse.
queuce whether they art on or off [a lough]. But
as to the retention of Portugal, it is slated, that a
nlatve army is collecting..inAlsat—ooosselyewird-vmr '
niiiley in'to be sent there for its support. What
fatality t There really seems to be a sort of pre.
destination which I will leave to the Reverend
Bench to explain, that whenever the French take
ally cuentry ()rimy prisoners, they shall have some
lot our money also. I can hardly account fur the
infatuation which possesses those men who suppose
they can defend Portugal, by sending a supply of
British money thrre. -Lt might as well, in fact, b'
I expected to accomplish that by sending over the
Woolsack with myNubleFiietid upon it [n/augh]:.
I Thu Noble Lord concluded with stating his While.
Ilion to vote for the Amendment. . • .
The Earl of BUCKINQIIAMSIIIRH vindiS
cated• the opinion and consistency Of hitt Noble
Friend (Laird Sidmouth). its • •
Lord HOLLAND animadverted tr/itlit the con,:
duct of Ministers with regard to Spaisskiiiirlsektiij
sal, awl expressed his regret that a' Mori eligigfil
amid liberal system of policy had not heild'betesr
1f6.44
. upon. the privileges of freedom kid' been
emirates' to the Spaniards, lie was,. persuaded the
the struggles of. that peosski ssoiteddiitive' led toff 11
.Very dinerent result from time. ilthei4s 'hoar- liaaftilf'
too probable. When he measetpUild fravdditn lit'
"Wished to be distinct'!" witlieviti3oll tes• mean 1
'ing that description of freedom fiir which h.
111117,3 hart been, and 111%.4ys *404 •ceittira

ported the Ainendrnem.
destroy three it
is, and had within tilt
period, and'ito little or no purpme, expe‘iii
more of tho and, pecuniary resource
the country than any of their prodectsson
done in tho course of. 10 years. Under these ek
cuinstattees, their Lordships could not give t 6,7
their. confidence in- the further prosecuting
line
it edfi:itti)tz wt
heiltilitoouotki ry
placc:
. -
For the Original Proposition, For the Amid
Pre'e..t Present 41
Proxies ki • • Pt,,

121

se.

Majority 30.

Adjourned.

LIST OF THE MINORITY.

PRESENT.
Cll, welder - Ileheiter ' Moira
I. orfiilk • ;Cowper • Ponsonhy
Somerset • (.r.is• emir Erik Ow -
Siailiird Breacillbene Car)slint
Laluidowpe Heed fort },ti fiord
Grey Bri,tiii l)itogia4
Spencer Hal ketry I)aniley
Rossi), n pandas ea rrialton
Locaii t 'asnillis Keith
Derby Holland Are-Me
Donnughmore Lauderdale El lenhurber% 1
'Mallet Gre:eiv i Ile Emu r‘.
A I teinarle Sit. John thford
H aid w icke liesisorough Rochester i
Eszex

re.OXIES.
Tankcrcille Anson . Berle
Duncan Camnrron liniehintse
Ashburton Montfort Waltlegnoe
Dc vonsh,re l!belinondsjey . Bedebril
St. Albans I tereford - Fitivilllnes
Grafton (.:ey de Ruthyn Yittbornitgli
Bute Gliistonhuu, 1)e Clifford
Darlington tßitifteshury Jersey
Stowe! Buckingliain ' . fieuthavlne
tirathorntigh X tog - Upper wary .
,4
Guilford FOrteseue entrant
,e,
lierkeley 4:arl isle. li illahntiongli :.'
Bolingbroke .I..:ntrcler Folei . • ' 1
cliarlenient Blancher& Atiokland .0,
800 naliend I.:4liutou _ • • inswing
Itrayhroke St.-Vincent ' , St. Ampli ~
Mendip Cork and Orally Liu
, Grew. ! *Sinners
. ..
, . • ';..., „
ilflUif, .9..0431045, Toseasei.tri Zap. gi .',
)1 Tile 8P16114g4 attended at ,tho the'..gii.
House ofl.ords;..and„ on• his return, sielpteitrea
i ate ilobhe that the •Itoyal... Astiept- had been glue
t'. Mr.-Wel I eslert toitfiree Igol4riati several etc
• r
;7A messago-feirm their Toirolliiiiisis El
eft . is
ihts 11°110 to trommuoicsie to thilpilasi.
•
ilibEf#:r(4:47:o.m-trlitt't' ee ;pun ft/P. *I isillc •toofilistilsl
tiun feet's& Sugar and 110/fusee, :,• ••• .., "
..,_,,
... .
• sCIIIMPT,EVE,ternaIr:
.I..fird POItCHES:FEK too* tit ii OMir 4
"the Day, made at the lest wieWing ef theitin
for now resolving ittelf into a .oeltnittet, foiht4
ther inquiry on the sithjeet.ot the Scheldt Hip&
tip*, : it- being past.foirr o.'et or Ic.. •
. Mr. WLIIAI4IOI4. said, he Juhl no 'doubt Phi
(L., 11)0p Lord, oath Ow Iformarslil• Mal(
with 4wWirr he acted, conceived- 04E.: by •
01
forward' the!..foqiiirjr.r.they, were' :acting-
iii.
good Or fro .c4ttiptry ; but he could not help+
nor Ting; that whiles.they. were thus professing to
uphold tht good protheir cannery with one hand,
4ii'''Vet:re puttiujetit down with Cie other, 11'
pressin
... ~g '
which,. heist
'ilia occasion for such -extreme hurry, before*
!moreL._
...
urgent concerns of the agriculture and pie-
'in.e rce
,i 4(. the nation, which. could not, admit of
per delaf without real injury to the public in.
terust..... ,Ile. rather imagined, the Gentlemen, is
urging the Inquiry to a hasty conclusion,wereorr
tuated by a desire of removing his-Majesty's Mink! 1
tors. But he a cull ask them, if they conceived
the best mode of promoting the illteltsts at (4,
country, with a vie* r.) the. future, Was by 14'
tending, its the first instance, to a retrospect ei
the past ? or what possible ineoovenienea OW
arise, if the further progress in'the Inquiry Al
be deferred until to.morrow, in- consequence
the 'louse proceeding, in the first instance, II
matters or more immediate inippitance Ow ia."ll'
ing, namely, measures for•-the hotter regskflaa
of the rojonufactures and trede 'of the coontry?
There-was a Bill before the Mimic for the oral-
lion of Distilleries, fbr instattee of grr ace''
gency ;• as the existing how npOsi tbat subject PIM
expire ill forty •dsya from the cummeroMolaal 4
the Session. • lisirty' of these. days wettt.!dreaf
expired't 'there remained butt ten dayi more Mll'
discussing a Pleasure e(-.so otuch.-itsteeest ifo'°l"
ittaglia,— rhiotigh both flouses ; and evesilhe.fl4l4l
,or a sirixle hour might be highly dariourfla
Mr. WHIT BR 1..: AI) said, -he could mill alrft
with the speech of tree Itolejiebtrenum in I"
points; n•amtly, that tu.:inercoor'was the rifore!,
and that the renitival of hie Mit.fiarty's present M 1".
nisters was a desirable object with hissed! ea
those friends with whom he haJ the honour goo'
log; and the 'Mere so, because he understood dfd
the Right lion.• Getitleman joffpo'oi(o .(wa aniA'f"
frOml .Mr..Perceral), whom. ka aid Dot estwel to
find at this day.a Ale:ober Oils hiajet.iy's Obi!'
, lice, was, cog ti.,,eit in .concert! ag with Lir:0;1ml
halus •attd I.ord *ilgravt4 two ether Ykalb°_,
' of. that. discordant Cabinet, in contrisirreferw
fur the dofottro u( laoctregolis an 3 for sending oot
Mote troops fur thodefeoce sir (....odis. Thellot
6611. 4i pleased:to say he (Mc. Whitbeeml)7
his trieffira had the ;Odd of; the* cue flarY At hesiosll.
fie..wo.9ld oval actept gas complitnent, feeling f
it w.ai • inuanj ironicel 1y...,1 Thit• they haq,ku.,effeil.
t!t0,c494 44,.the:op!ntry toed, at Licari, boo ",..,,,"
%Mit 11144100 of the strongest proofs of 1m".,..
let try was theirsentons a ish to remove 01,01
• wntqifildsters... lie 'tad au wish whas*l',.sr •
iffcola Inflict.. Of "tbst country, sir eisr!o“;-•t-,,
d 0ut,..u1l - the progiti4i) of the ..,.ftstilleff
taili44l.
14,,satipor tog the. order of Ilfs Pay,
at the sNry l sift o

.~

because the basis of Mega
tots! broad for its c*rfileu
#or ttie kippidiesg•An4 Au/Lifil
hebeeEriovernituntit-ot Spain' t
71:rvies,;) litys.bracEliyevt.:
p,"t:
Alpits:dd have. triumphed ()VI
&JOA
had Almost
.in the contioetwf •12 months