The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-06-07 00:00:00

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PRIVILEGES OF THE. HOUSE OF COMMONS.
' TAMA Alt ENTAftY REFOttM. •
Yesteidiy I Cour( of Common Council iroleld
at•the Council 'Chattibei', auiklhilc for the ur.,
..pose of taking into. consideration the titbit T •
y , •iti
and undefined Privileges lately usurped by hl
Mouse of 'tom as welt as the question Co(
Parliamentary Reform. ' . .
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't. A Ivry consideroblepoition of the morning *as
'occupied in preliminary business ; it was near three
'ti`cleck before the pritteipak4ukket vms brotogit,
4urvriird• ;• at 'lentil* -4, .
Mr. 'QUIN' rose. and figiriini, that he ;vie
depfy impressed With iheitriportance of the topics.'
which were to liediscuised this day;—he rejoiced,
i te 'see so full an *tittegdance, and hendoubted inat,
[they .could, by the manner in'ivhich they should
I deliberate on the two great proposals sobmittekto
',them, evince their re/Lied:for the welfare of ter.
fellow citizens, and acquit theinielve thiaaired
s of
obligation theybad contracted, to, promote, thuad-
iantage 'and prOsperity of the country., Xpcall.,,
itcg the attention of his Lot** and the Qestlet.'
men or the Court to consider the alarhinfpoier
assumed •hy . (he' Muse of Ceinmenhilip, imprison.
in g People fur Ofienies, ctigniza hie by t!ielerdisiary
Courts of Law, 'antr- In irking
.thipicji, adopt: tho
necessary Means foie obtan* a te.thrast of griev.
ances, and a Reform In *Parliament, he should be
as concise as possible—liti'vias prevented iront the
necessity of going into /toilette; of oli.servalion i
by. the simple cunsidcralion, atalLilierti never hash
been two questions .connected with thetltc etifety and/
I glory of the country, taiire broadly adviested .or
' more thoroughly sifted this theito.ivro.qtiest,lotyi
had been.: In adverting to the Priv),llO'bitrhh;ic
the House of Cinimions claimed the powir Of int. ,
piisootini their 'fellow' sulkieets 'for etrenees Ottch
might bii.reditsseol by the • eommali law, he re. ',
marked it'was optic the ground of the law being
sufficient to olitain.ell the' ends of justice tit"
II ousit'of ContilinhO Ovid haiii:iii eiew, that lie
made his stand; tri*f -v(as iike point upon - mbieb.
be founded his reassining.• .flefoto he 4titercil upon
the sutjett,'ltiwishiAl to make a few •obiervitions
with respect to tti9coit:luct of those, who, in en.
deavoirng to ioiintiract the proceedings pf the
Livery of London, had thoUght proper to cas
foul seflectionif and• dispersions upon the motives
by which.bionsell and his friends vere actuated.'
.11e,thonglti there. was nothing which could justify
so unjost and illiberali proceeding-4i wasnot be.
coming in theist to attribute hid or unworthy mu_
sires to any man. flit did not mean either to sup.
port or justify what might be termed the intent.
perance of a Common Hall, or to censure the con.
duct of those who had signed counter-declarations.
.God forbid ho should challenge the motives by
Which any man was guided in his views of moral,
religtous, or political questions ; he .wished that
titen'altould be judged by their 'acts--,tbat those who
accused them would reasoktroni cause to.effect, and
thensay 'Whether those who differed from them tle-,
served to be t reatrid*sad isloyal:• HeitoilY vitiate to,
say that•those who had been in unjeally calumniated;
loved' the Kingi rOntidered'his pritiogativi as no.
ressary, and 'hall a due reipect (Or the hereditsty.
Counsellors of 'the CroWn. Gould sitelt meu be
disloyal ? They 'located to' the-Houle of Coin.
mons as the.th.,„„4tary ....,e the power of the peo7
file ; they
.nisheil to consider the House of Com.
'mons as the economical dispensers of the public
purse, and the sacred 'guardians of 0c• :collie; they
were ready to lay down their lives in defence of
the just privileges of that House—ought they
then to be:considered as disloyal ? Without mak-
ing vainsprotestations, he
,trusted that, in the Ito.,
meat of danger, many Of those who were Ntalued
with the epithet disloyal would be• the first to
stand for vard and defend, with their blood, . the.
cause of their King and country. They were,
persuadedthat it was to the balance of power re.
sultitirrimi the doe equipoise of the three cattail
the people could be 'indebted for their liberty and
security. , flaying saidthtti much, he would make
an ober...Won with reference te, himaelf. Ifie.i)oli-,
deal kentimenta had been identifier) and consideredJ
as consolidated with the :principles of an Hon.
Baronet he eutertained.the 'highest respect for
Sir Francis Burdett,and reasoning froni cause.'
to.effect, *and looking to the whole of his political
coodUct;he was warranted in saying that the (Lou.
Iteronit was
,a great and ,noble character. There
were 'some of the expressions of Sir F. Btirdett
centained in his letter of which he did not ap.
prive : he won'd never admit that the blouse of,
'Commons was nit inferior branch of the legisla.
litre.. Without *entering farther into the conduct,
wind motives of himself Or his friends, he would,
only entreat of Ceiktlemen to give them and him
fair play, and to reason with them before they
condemned them. With regard to the question of
privilege, it would ill become him to waste the time
of 'the Court in l'eferring to the serious opinions'
and legal authorities which had already peen Oren
upon. that subject; but thus touch he would sayi.
that looking to .the thing as it presented itself to;
the mind, Wad combining clear ideas upon the ques.
tion, he could not reconcile it to his notions that
one third of the Constitution was greater than the
whole. The House of Commons, like the Mouse
of Lords, possessed privileges which were neces-
sary fur their security. . What were those privi.
leges ?—Freedom of speech—freedom of person'
—the power of punishing.fon contempis, and re,
moving obstructions to their proceedings. These
privileges were laid dowo by Mr. Ibusull in his
excellent book ; and after so much had been said
upon the subject of other *MUM{ privileges, and

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"flee' having, travelled back toelts
,old. and d irk
per.iidief one blitorysi the ,Utiost`that could be
staled• in supPort.wf the assumed powers pt the
Amiss of Comnions„l4, that it wit Needed. etk
a pr,vilege which no one wsa able to defiee.....lio,
would hzainine this. PtAtended.pol4s according to
the plain principles of ,action. Whe:ther be anti ;
Jtemplated our• Own ,haPply COOatitation Or -took tl,.'
moii;distant view notgoitAtiles;elhting badge. iyo.
rennical forms .ef nitivercupeet, In,' either sense -it
r\noald 14 there t
could be right.whe'reithers-dira
fore • and ' • t.
not exist a jkOsittr.* of .an . . trig ttureylvg I
inteiffeet.. 'lows was. the.aisemett power of; this
11titiss Of •COMusent4o be Su pptOtisi2 Tha Bonin,.
701-.Cemmotli ireticomessed of sollicielit tikcistel-t,
'remove obstructions to Its peo4tadiess-;.rthey.hatla
theiT.Sedeant at Arms end messengers who were
I 'provided with thenecesiary powers to that hircct iS.,
but bow was it, when ineh a aloe dccurted al. that
,svhicli took piece with regard to tbeAyiesburY -
Eleekton, where a person had isqlttest.it pamphlett
in. which be attacked the House of Commons #:
—The House tor Common's addristad his; Majesty.
1 to *pet, the. writer iu priion, and the /Jodie, of,
•Lorcli.'addressed his Majesty ,to take, Jiro out
`again. What became of the ;tower at the House
of Commons in such 'a casts es Otis ? Row Wero.
they to eiercise their power if they were contend.
leg for the King ? 'lt might be said that. was its
.extreme ea-Si-I'lle, it 'was sov but shOuld th.ii* .
Swill{ monicot come When the Crown should op;
pose the firivile4es of . the !louse of. Cornmeal'', Jid. •
believed . the power. if, that House would not.bi
found to reside Within itselF, and.thai.their Priri4
tees could only be. preseried by• the:support of
oig people—that ini.pors thcrroula.hsTe., aro•
iiiia,use, peeple ,vfeie persuaded that ,they, wore
iirOPTfri.Vrtipikfnerited. • it had street
.his mind
that there, •;weiCeßitiething like deslo in the recent. •
proceedings ‘on,the Part of- he 111 Mil) of Come -..
-lions. • In.erguing from. mutton effect, the °right •
if their COet,maritid design, find the conic.
•• ' • prom it. Mt *
, genteel , . Yorlte, by coming for.
ward ,in the
,manner, hp had dose.*. had betrayed
'fib I:porance Of...the Constitution ; he .oas not
ihfaisding 'Sir; F. *Burdett er John Gale Jones, but
'his object was to sher that Mr. Yorke was igno.
iont of the, Constitution. Mr. Yorke, when he
moved Ccommittall
flue 111 of John.GAIO Junes, called
l upon the dilute to consider the Ninth Article or
the Dili of Rights. Now, what said that ? It
said that their' debitess, and freedom of Speech
should not *be, jucationed in CoUrteof Law. He
would ask ' how a 'Debating Socictt; discussing
the conduct of one of the Members of the 11010
Of dimmons,, could be said to be calling in qiiesi.
lion the debates or' freedom of
.aplech of the
goose? ' It was w,Orisilegt granted to preient
the.eontroul if. the King or courti of Law use!
that freedom 'of. iirech *llia .stati necesiary for the
preservation of the rights of the people. It wait
. privilege whichnesir was meant .tet•be eMployett •
against men Merely' wishing ,to consider the natnot
ona inOpiielsy.nf Partibelai• acts of the House*
'COMMAIS, or the conduct of its blombers. : 4!
Yorke, therefire, '• by trine
.to the
:P i I .
Rights as the authority foe the prOckcdisgi 4 '
:clearly shewn hbotteit' igtiotttUt 9( the :Cpossitia n .
thin. But to proic the design by,Wbakfollpmek
afterwerdts. lie ilt.buld obseiVes that Mr. Yorkii, -
bowleg been :tamed out of Parliament, wal n 5..,.
warded with a sinecure' place. • ileie then . was a,,
quid pro quo. ile, had allot the gallery of ~pien
!tense of Comosoeh to present the peopie ,froal,
hearing a discussion materially effecting their bito,
1 rests. lie hail wined out the reoplet and after.,
wards the Pea* bad itikniatiout ltim.! „What•ttat .'
.00; eclat( ? He immediately hc:eame 'First ford ot
the Admiralty, its a retried fdr distracting the pdbi., .
:lie attention .front the .O9diset of miomtit• 10 • •
transaction most disgrackfal.te the conotty. ; .he
bad been vew,irded by tieing plaCed at the head df
theAarniratty. 11, would not deny toPinttlemen,
sitii, diffe'red from . 144 that freedom of -thought
.which all-wished to 'e4jey. fie iconlinot call op.
on them to give, an opinioo with rasped td the,
'Prisileeia of the llrsusnrif Commons. Ile knitw.
theiel were Men •ittbesp. authorities *Old hate,
weight in the pubtid minds but he sbutild not ask
ijtbem to pass any' vote UpOO ',that Subject. 1.114,
ittion the qtitiort of
,Parliamentary Reform, he.
Itrosied hishoiilit hive, the concurrence of all It hon
heard him. lie had,: iti :then Kesolotions he should
offer tri their 'consideration,. pointed out the de.
fieteof tbe Present system of representation, and,
the remCdies, n,‘ had reconsotended, first, that
thes..elietive• francSiie jabould be extended ; sea
conilty, that the right of corrupt depoptilated SO.,
roughs abOuld be destroyed ; and lastly, Olt:that,
duration of, Parliaments should .be ihorteued.. Ho
should not take up the time of thp Court further,
than by moving his' itesoletiOn; at tile, same, time
assuring the Court, :that the terms of the Petition'
would be found to correspond* with it. • lie con.,
eluded with moving cerbati K`esolution*, for at
copy of -which see a preceding cdumfi; .
Mr. Pgit,SALL said, he rose merely for the
purpose of seconOing the Motion. It was 'inner*
cessaiy for him to attempt to, say any thing its
support of the Motion; after the able manner id.
which it hail been intentlueed by the Clentletutut
win) had just addressed, the Couri. Heagreed
with him that it. was the duty of every man to de*
Clare his opinion upon public measurtsi not ta
shrink from his post, ,whatever odium might, be goo;
deuioured-tO be
.cost upon. hint. The yeestiudi,
suhhitted to them was of the utmost: importance
—they *ere to consider. the extraordinary powers
assumed by the Rouse of Common", . and the auta.
jest of Parliamentar.y•Reform.. Upon the grstii:
was **necessary to take up .tkoir time ; tey mutt

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)Isis eready made gip their mindsf for certainly
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the late Bents had been of a magnitude and chi.
ratter sufficient to alarm crery individual for his
personal safety. Ile was glad to find that the Re-
solution did not go the length of stating that the
House had pot the Privileges upon which they
had acted, but only lamented that they should have,
been assumed. It was not for them to decide It
question which was in a course of jadicial in.
quiry—they could only lament the circumstances
which had given rise to the discussion. He then
read a passage from Junius, with reference to the
Privileges of the House of Commons, and •urged
the necessity of Parliamentary Reform as the only
means of preventing the Representatives of Rot-
ten Boroughs from committing the people of this
country for acts which might be inquired into by
the regular and ordinary course of justice. On
these grounds be supported the Motion.
Mr. Wheble rose, but .the Lord Mayor inter.
tupting him, observed, that it was neceisary.the
Resolution should be first read.
The Resolutions end Petition were then read by
tle proper officer.
Mr. WHEBLE said, be wished to call the at.
tendon of the Court to the circumstances which
assisted forty years ago, when the Court were una-
nimous in censuring the House of Commons for a 4
line of conduct somewhat similar to that Which
had been recently adopted. Ile wished to show,
by adverting to a circumstance which then took.
place, thin the Howie of Commons bud not the
power They assumed. He stated, that for some.
thing fie had printed (but we could nbt hear what
it was), heivat ordered to attend at the Bar of the
Ilonse; be did not attend, and a Messenger was
Debt fur him. When the. Messenger came to his
house, he was out of the way. In his absence
there was a Proclamation for his apprehension,
with a reward of fifty pounds offered for taking
Trim. The 'louse of Commons addressed his Ma.
jesty to issue that Proclamation. Now, if the
Rouse of Commons ,had the power to arrest him,
-why did they not send their Messenger fur hint
into the *country! Why address his Majesty?
Ile mentioned this ai a strong case. [A laugh.]
Ile begged leave to say, that there was a Member,
who was afterwards Lord Rosalyn, who said that
he should be taken up by a printer's devil; but
that whether the devil took Wheble, or Wheble
took the devil, it was clear the House had
,got
into a devil of a scrape. He should not go into
the case, but only make one or two observations.
Ile could not help adverting to an expression used
by Oroonoko, in the play, who exclaimed, "What-
ever world I am thrown on, the next cannot be
worse." This remark would apply to our pre.
sent Ministers—they were so bad, that whoever
came in the room of them could not be worse than
they were. Ile then read horn a paper what he
called the various items of accusation against Mi.
nisters, namely, the Convention of Cintra—the
sacrifice of Sir John Moore and his Army—the
Duke of York's Investigation, which, he said,
was really a disgraceful business—the Sale of Seats
in Parliament—the acquittal. of Lord Castlereagh
and Mr. Perceval—and the dreadful Expedition to
Walchercn. He concluded by telling a story
about a poor author, who was intending to pub.
lash a work by subscription, and when consider.
big what he should get by it, said, at all events he
allaaid get a new coat and waistcoat out of it,
Which be very much wanted; so he thought some
of the Counter . addressors, if they could not
get any thing for the public by what they were
doing, at least hoped to get what they wanted fur
themselves, a baronetage or a place.
Mr. Alderman SMITH, in referring to the
Resolutions which had been read, thought there
was mime design in Introducing the expression re.
lutive to the " extraordinary and alarming power
eff the House of Commons iu imprisoning English.
pet," Why not say, imprisoning Sir Francis
Burdett and John Gale Jones? What would the
nieople in the country, one hundred miles off,
think? They would suppose that the House
of Commons were imprisoning a number of Eng. i
lisineeti, and not merely two individuals. Why
put state the fact as it really was? He wished to
fall the attention of the Court to what had hap.
pened a year ago, during the Investigation re.
'pectin the Duke of York. When General
Clavering and Captain Sandon were seht to
Prison by • the !louse of Commons, the Gentle.
then who were now so tealous in behalf of
Sir Frideis Burdett and John Gale Jones were
no • ways alarmed at the power then assumed
krthe House of Commons.—lt was impossible
Wet to see through thli—he was of opinion that
. every friend to his country would have had good
esuse for alarm if the House of Commons had not
been supported in their privileges. • To the House
of Commons wo were indebted for every thing ;
what ritteld be the consequence if designing per.
ions were to go to public-houses and debating so.
cietie.s, In order to discuss the proceedings of the
House of Commons, and bring them into con.
tempt? Where, the_ti, would be the bulwark of
the Constitution ? When the House of Commons
dropt the helm, then we might expect nothing but
anarchy and confusion.. Ile was no party man ;
be cared a good- deaf for his family and property,
bat he Bated nothing for 'politics. With respect
Rbringing forward the question of Parliamentary
eform he thought it was out of time.
' Mr. JACKS said, he expected that the Gentle.
milt who had brought forward this motion would
Save gone further into the question of the, Privi.
leges of the House of Commons. Ile apple.
Betided that the Privileges of Parliament might be
defended on the principles of reason, law, and'
precedent. lie observed, that the House of
Commons must be deßenderq either'on some ether
body q itself. On what other body could the
Reese iif Commons rest ? Were the privileges of
the [louse of Commons to be placed in tie hands
df the King? That had been tried theeentury be-
nt,: last; Were the Privilege's 'of shi House of
immons to hetested in the House oftords)—
• bat Could not be, for the House of Lorthi e*
ocired the same pontes with Welt; When coeld
the josisdiction be vested ? 4 . Certil 'ant Of
courts of taw' lye Juries-43at would Se int-
pottlible t for the priVileges of the 'lone. of Coal.
.fiovA (itri) 1.1.1.?! on prgc lent V. 1.0. lon Pr.?vc!il4i.v.,

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