The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-05-06 00:00:00

UN LAwrut, oATHs.

Mr. Secretary RYDER, pursuant to notice,
moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the 37th
of his Majesty, relating to the taking of unlawful
oaths. Ile stated, that it was very notorious that
these oa'::s were very prevalent at present, in some
•of the disturbed parts of the country. lie read one
of titis description, which was found in -the pocket
of one of the rioters who was shot at Manchester,
by which he bound himself to keep inviolably secret
the names, places of residence, &c. of the Secret
• Committee, to make known the names of those who
betrayed the secret, that their names might be blot-
ted out of remembrance for ever, a.id their lives
forfeited to Ow first brother they sheuki meat. That
these oaths, in many parts of the cociftry, he was
sorry to say, were but too prevalent, and called for
some more severe Legislative enactment than at pr!!.
sent existed. lie should therefoi'e propose, that the
person so taking or administering tl oath should he
!liable to the punisbmeut of capital feloay, nithout
benefit of clergy. By the act as it now stood, this
crime was transportation ; but in case the party
!should relent and confess his crime before a Magis-
trate, and upon tahiog the oath of allegiance. lie
should be exempted from the penaltias of this Bill.—
; These were the outlines of the measure proposed, of
the necessity under the existing circumstances, there
1 could be no doubt ; but as there would be suffi-
cient opportunitie3 in the future progress of the
, Bill to discuss the principles, he should not then
f occupy the time of the House with further observa-
tions, but concluded by moving for leave to bring in
the Bill.

! Mr. IVYNNE said, that the proposed Bill would
introduce a new principle of legislation. It had al-
ways been an established principle of law to distin-
guish the mere intention of clime from the actual
commission, but this Bill at once went to destroy
this salutary maxim. He was himself inclined to
think that transportation was a sufficient punishment
for this offence; and that the proposed penalty of
death would tend to this dangerous interference,
that since assassination, the completion of the ob-
ject Of the oath, would be visited by no- severer
punishment than the taking of the oath, it would be
• as well in all instances to go to the extent of murder.
Ile objected also to the pardon granted to those who
• made confession.

Mr. HORN ER objected to the proposed mea-
sure, as another instance of the Government legislat-
iug with sanguinary severity for particular emergen-
cies. The extreme distresses of the country were the
cause of the disgraceful disturbances which had hap-
pened. Many of these distresses, he firmly believed,
arose from causes which no policy could prevent;
but many also, he had no doubt, were referable to
the bad policy of Ministers, in their commercial and
domestic system. The cure for these miseries lay in
Parliament : it was for l'arliament to investigate the
cause of the mischief, and, if possible, apply the
proper remedy ; but if the evil was without cure, yet
the experience of past time had clearly proved that it
was not by the enactment of new criminal laws,—
not by the introduction of new capital felonies, that
calamities like the present could be removed. But
the great objection to the Bill was, that which had
been stated by his Hon. Friend,—it made no distinc-
tion between degrees of offence. The Government
see an evil prevailing, and thea it occurs to them as
the most obvious and easy method of putting it down,
to put at once the whole force of the Executive Go-
vernment in array against it. Why did they not
rather try the application of the last Act, the Act of
1797 ?—why did they not send down a Special Com-
mission, which, from the promptitude and solemni-
ty of its proceeding would be much more likely to
produce a salutary effect, than the addition of a new
sanguinary law to our criminal code? [Hear, hear!]
Mr. PERCE'VAL was happy to inform the Learn-
ed and lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, that
a Special Commission was, as soon as possible, to be
sent to investigate the late atrocities : but he would
ask, Whether, in consideration of the delay which
must necessarily take place, it was not the bounden
duty of Government, to whom every post brought
information of fresh enormities, to provide some other
measures for the salvation of the lives and property
of loyal subjects—[Hear, hear!]; and whether
Government would be justified in waiting to try t he ex-
periment how many more persons would be assassina-
ted? [Loud cheering from the 3finisterial Benches.]
It had been objected that the present was only a
conspiracy with the intention to take away life ; but
itovas a conspiracy so formed as to resemble the most
horrible crimes. The most dreadful menaces, the most
brutal violence, had been used to force poor indivi-
duals to take these oaths of confederacy. An Hon.
and Learned Gent. had called the present measure an
instance of the Government wishing to screen them-
selves, and elude difficulties, by proposing tempo-
rary plans. lie would ask, was not the present op-
position an instance of the deternatnatidu of the other
side of the House to oppose any scheme, however
wise or salutary, if it happened to be proposed by
Ministers ? The Hon. and Learned Gent. had stated,
and no doubt with a conscientious belief, that the
distresses of the country were owing to Govern-
ment. This he (Mr. P.) denied; and he must ob-
serve, that the riogleadkrs of the riotous mobs were
not persons in any distress from want of work or oc-
cupation, but they were persons who had taken ad-
vantage of the distresses of poor deluded individuals,
to induce them to deeds of atrocity. It had also
bean made a ground of objection, that the utmost

penalty (death) ii incurred id di- fire instance de
much as if the crime was committed: But it should
be recollected; that the enactment wee net ret
tive; and his Right Hdn. Friend intended to propose
a clause of indemnity for the past ; thus giving, an
opportunity of retreat to thole who hate been cum-
pelted into these associations, or misled at the mo-
ment by their own criminal passiens: To thew ittai
severe measures of a teniporar) *etre *ere effic tele
ous, the Right Hon. Gent. then alluded to the Act
concerning the seduction of soldiers, and said, that
in consequence of the capital contiction of a Neither
two (lase after the passing of the Act, thouah exe-
cution had not taken place, in coneeetieace. of the
recency of the Statute, yet so good an cif. et had
been produced, that inslatius of seduction had bead
very rare Since that pi- riod.
Mr. BROUGHAM observed, thdt the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had thought proper to intreduce
two topics net very relevaat to the matter in debate.
'The one was an attempt to mix up the Oppositiou
with the ipstigators of the riotsa the other was; te
make it believed, that the Opposition resisted every-
meesure, howeter convieced of its excelleoca, said its
necessity, not from any reasonable motive; but sim.;•
ply because it was proposed by Ministers. This last
assertion had found a congenial echo in the Isogonal
of a Noble [peril, and an lion. Gentleman who was
placed by. his side, and their loud cheering (lie be;
Hewed this was the strongest Perliamentarrword he
could use) showed how perfectly they weracousiaced
of its truth; for instance, they shicerely believed
that any salutary measure, such ae one to cltecit .as;
sessination, would be Opposed merely because it ori-
ginated on the Ministerial side of the House. [flea. r,
• hear, hear ! from Mr. b'lephert.)—He observed
cheering of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and
supposed that It arose from a jealousy at not beiea
included in the number whom he had just described.
Really it was too notch that his Hon. Friend should
not only he subject to the bearing of suck loud shouts
(no slight penalty by the way), but should be deem-
ed incapable of a reasonable motive, because the un-
fortunate Gentleman happened to sit oti the benches
of Opposition. It is said that there is no ..time to
, lose—that offences have been already committed.—
Well, then, has the existing law been executed ? Is
there any thing so different in the present dream-
stances from those which occasioned the former law,
as to call for a new enactment ? That law, at the
time, had been thought rather severe; it was passed
at the time of mutinies and commotions as violent as
those at present, and even Mr. Pitt had thought it
sufficiently rigorous. As to the seduction of soldiers
it was a different thing, it was an offence of the
j highest nature, and little short of high treason. lie
i also insisted, that they had not sufficient grounds to
proceed up•sti. The nature of the oath mentioned
I was unintelligible ; all that was known was, that it
I was a frantic oath, found in somebody's pocket.
Mr. STEPHEN said, he could not help etpree-
sing his astonishment that such a Bill as this should,
in this stage of it, meet with opposition. He thought
that in so doing the House had not shown its usual
courtesy, as it was quite unprecedented.to make this
preliminary opposition to a measure unless there
were something •highly injurious or .abeitid in its
' principle. With all his experience in Parliament,
and all his knowledge of the spirit of party, he was
much surprised at this conduct.
Mr. HORNER here asked the Speaker, if an ace
cusation of the spirit of party was not out of order?
Mr. STEPHEN; denied that he had any intention
of imputing itto that Gentleman in particular, Mr.
S. then observed, that he had more than once borne
testimony to high the merit of Sir S. Romilly in his
reform of the criminal code; but he thought that Sir
si. Romilly would have no objection to the present
measure. It had been asserted by the Learned Ju-
rists that there wis a danger of passing obnoxious
laws without discussion ; there was no fear now of
such danger, since that which he must again call
. party spirit would effectually prevent it. He con-
cluded by observing, that if Ministers had omitted to
take this measure, they would have deserved the n-
dignation and detestation of their country.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he thought the Henan...
able and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Stephen) had been
improperly called to order for his allusion to party-
spitit. It was the old bite allusion, ever ready to
be suggested in .lieu of better argument, and ever
most in the mouths of those who were themselves the
most active and zealous partisans.—[Hear, hear!]
—That Learned Gentleman had entered the House,
pledged to a certain set of measures.
Mr. STEPHEN called to order.
The SPEAKER said, that the language was eel...
tainly not in order.
• 'Mr. WHITBREAD was sorry to have offended
the lion. Gentleman, but he should not himself have
given the first offence. He had recommended mode•
j ration and temper, but had not exemplified it in
himself. It was, besides, unfair to accuse his lion.
and Learned Friend of exciting a sympathy for the
rioters, because he had simply said, that the mea-
sures of Government had accumulated the distresses
of the country, and furnished an opportunity for
! sedition. As to what was said of inflammatory
topics introduced in discussion, what did it mean?
It went too far,—it went at once to the extinction
of all discussion. As well might the doors of the
House be shut, and not one word be suffered to
escape to the public. He sincerely believed that
on this as well as on another occasion the warmth
and goodness of Mr. Stephen's feelings misled him.
Mr. Whitbread then alluded to Mr. Stephen's.
assertion in the case of Captain Lake, that he
would have convicted him of murder, though it
since appeared that the man supposed to be mur-
dered was still alive. lie then insisted that the same
credit should be given to the motives of the Opposi-
tion which he was ready to glut to the
They, no doubt, conscientiously )sei!eved theta new
penalty of death- oo the S!atfteelniPt, would remedy
the evil ; let it theft be believed, mat the Opposition
conscientiously dietrgree'wtth this principe. Mr.
Whitbread concluded by alluding to the Asti:4l797,
when atrocities existed as great as any now practised;
and observed that Ministers, in their seal for puniah-
merit, might be driven to the bollinteneasaree of
Henry VItL-or the torture-system practise/I and
defended trol..long since in Irelaed. He fully *peed
with his Ho le Friend on the great pitiot of oh..
jection, that nO listinctiets 'was madeblitwimett

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