The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-05-31 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS-THURSDAY

Mr. WYNN brought on his motion, for a direction to the
Attorney- General to prosecute such persons as shall appear
to him to have been guilty of bribery at the last election for
Ipswich.
Sir. THOMAS WILDE reluctantly opposed the motion. It
would be infinitely preferable to introduce a general measure
for the suppression of bribery, than to select individuals for
punishment in one or two isolated cases.

Sir WILLIAM FOLLETT (the Solicitor-General) also opposed
he motion.

Mr. TIIOS. DUNCOMBE was convinced that the entire elec-
tive system required re-modelling, and that this evil of bribery
was not to be eradicated by any partial proceedings.
Mr. O'CONNELL called on the Attorney-General to bring
in, on the part of the government, a bill of indemnity for
witnesses, by which all bribery cases could be probed to the
bottom, and the wealthy bribers be reached.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said, by all means punish the bribers,
but do not set up the dangerous precedent of screening the
bribed. Confessing the difficulty of the case, he thought it
best, on the whole, not to direct a prosecution in the present
instance, though he came to this conclusion with reluctance.
Mr. BERNAL was afraid, that nothing effective would be
done without an alteration of the tone and character of the
constituent body itself. The law relating to treating and
bribery was also in an exceedingly ill-defined state.
Sir R. H. INGLis considered bribery to be a sin, and that
the sin was committed when either a representative or an
elector gave a vote against his conscience.
Mr. WYNN, after some observations, withdrew his motion.
Colonel RUSIIBROOKE then moved the issue of a new writ

for Ipswich.
Mr. HUME objected to the motion, and hoped that the wr
would be suspended for a month, pending the proposed in
quiries. _ _ _

Sir ROBERT PEEL did not see sufficient grounds for the
suspension of the writ.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that the power of suspending a
writ, on the ground of bribery and corruption, had been re-
peatedly exercised since the time of the Revolution ; and
though he should use the power with reluctance, yet there
were cases in which it was advisable to do so.

After some observations from Mr. Danny,
Mr. C. BULLER said that the issuing of a writ to a boron;
convicted of bribery, was an invitation to it to resort to i
old tricks.

A long debate ensued ; after which, the house went to a
division, when there appeared—For the issue of the writ,
126 ; for its suspension for one month, 107 ; majority 19.
Mr. O'CONNELL then moved, as an amendment on the
motion for the issue of the writ, that a select committee of
inquiry be appointed to inquire into the extent of bribery at
the last Ipswich election; and another discussion arose, ano-
ther division took place, when there appeared—For the issue
of the writ, 133 ; for the committee of inquiry, 119 ; majority,
14.

Mr. MILDER GIBSON obtained leave, after a slight discus-
sion, to bring in a bill to prevent persons in England and
Wales from losing their votes at an election by removal after
the preceding registration.

Lord STANLEY rose, amidst considerable confusion, to ask
leave to bring in a bill for the better regulation of the govern-
ment of Newfoundland. Although it might not excite much
interest, he could assure the house that this was a subject of
considerable importance. (Interruption, caused by hon.
members leaving.) He knew it was impossible to ask for the
patience of the house, and he was quite ready, if the
house thought proper, to ask leave to introduce the measure
without saying a single word, but if they wished that he

should explain the object of the bill, he hoped they would
at least allow him to hear what he was saying himself. In
1831 a constitution was granted for the first time to the co-
lony of Newfoundland, on the declaration by the colony of
their willingness to take on themselves the expenses of their
own administration, and relieve this country from the bur-
den. Out of this circumstance arose the necessity for the
appeal he was now making to parliament, the object of which
was to enable the crown to restrict tLe extent of the elective
franchise then established in the colony. He did not think
the house would be of opinion, when he stated the circum-
stances, that he proposed very largely cr improperly to re-
strict the amount of the franchise. He was very unwilling to
enter at much length into the circumstances which had led
to the state in which the colony was at present placed. The
late governor of the colony had represented to the noble lord
who preceded him (Lord Stanley) in the charge of the colo-
nial department, that such was the state of the colony, that
it was quite impossible that he could undertake to summon
an assembly under the constitution as it now stood, and the
noble lord the secretary for the colonies concurring in this
opinion, authorised the suspension of the sittings of the as-
sembly until time should have been taken to consider the
state of the colony. A committee of the House of Com-
mons was appointed to investigate the whole circumstances
on the motion of the hon. member for Droitwich (Mr. Pa-
kington) ; but their inquiries were cut short by the dissolu-
tion of parliament, and all that they were able to effect was
a partial examination of some questions affecting the religi-
ous differences of the island. He was happy to learn that
the animosities springing out of this source had to a consi-
derable extent subsided, and with the religious part of the
question he did not propose in any way to deal. Although a
nominal qualification for both the electors and the elected
was ordained under the new constitution, it was in point of
fact no qualification at all. The state of society was in
many respects peculiar. Formerly the inhabitants con-
sisted chiefly of fishermen, with a few persons who were
attracted to the island by commerce, but in the course of time
another interest had grown up, consisting of agriculturists
and other persons resident in the colony. Between these
considerable jealousy prevailed, which divided the people into
two parties. The inhabitants were distributed over a large
extent of sea-coast with but small means of communication
with the interior. The bulk of the population was extremely
poor, and as a natural consequence extremely ignorant, with
but few persons possessed of property. The qualification of
a voter hitherto had been the possession of a house for twelve
months, which might be a mere log-hut of a few boards, such
as was called in the North American provinces a shanty. The
qualification for representatives was the having occupied a
house for seven years. The result had been, that the House
of Assembly had consisted generally of very uneducated
persons, one of the fifteen of which it was composed having
been unable to write his own name, and some of the others
being menial servants, who had to ask their masters' leave to
enable them to sit in the house. He thought the house would
agree with him that in such a state of things some check was
called for, and that the restriction he proposed on the fran-
chise was not unreasonable. The qualification which he
should now propose for the electors, in conformity with the
opinions of both the present governor and his predecessor,
and with the consent of most parties in the island, was in
the country districts the possession of a 40s. freehold, the
person being resident on the spot, paying no rent, but being
unauthorized. In the
townsin u n dhi sep uptreodp
ops
eods s et shsei o no
c, c euvpeant i 0 inf
of a £5 house, which
rent being exceedingly low—indeed, in the country districts
in compliance with the constitutional
no such thing existed—would, in fact, include the great
bulk of the householders. One other restriction he pro-
pproascetdicteo
iinnttrhoidsucceo,untry,
and to which he did not believe
grudged any expenditure
the other, and in any objection would be made on either side of the house, and
that was, the origination of money votes by the Crown. The
effect of the present jealousy between the commercial and
the money
ofag agricultural
eltpuourbhailei
cicntimtoenroesnsewtysewirneasm,
behalftandaet to
fh
conse-
quence votes, and no
supply was granted for the public business. He thought it
would be a proper control for this state of things to enact
that money votes should originate with the Crown, and not
with the House of Assembly. On all these points there was
no difference of opinion in the colony itself. There was ano-
ther he attached considerable
the colony itself but to which . ther provision, not made indeed with the general consent of
stood, checked the House of As-
The Council, as things now st
im-
portance, as tending to smooth the course of public business.
both into one chamber, combining
proposed to incorporate
with that of nominationby -
the
sembly, and the two bodies acted 'with mutual jealousy. He
the principle of election
by the people. He pro-
.l, two-fifths of which
Crown. At present there were two separate chambers, one
nominated by the Crown, the other
posed to convert them into one council,
should
• es of the Crown, and
be thought would
should be nominated by the Crown, and three-fifths b Y popu-
lar election ; sto compose the nominees
10 those elected by the people. This plan .
used formerly to
tend to produce more harmonious legislation, and prevent
that suspension of public business which
occur when questions of precedence and dignity occupied the
Tbese
time which should be devoted to public business.

Mr. O'CONNELL viewing the whole scheme of legislation
proposed by the noble lord, would implore him rather to in-
troduce a bill to annihilate all representation in the colony,
and take the government of the colony altogether into his
own hands, than mock them with such a semblance of a re-
presentative body. The people of Newfoundland had been
extremely ill-used, not only by the government of which the
noble lord bad formed a part, but also by the preceding go-
vernment. The committee appointed by the noble lord the
member for London to consider the state of Newfoundland
had made its report on ex parte statements, as none of the
residents of the colony had an opportunity of being examined
before it. The whole power of the colony was placed in the
hands of a few London houses, and the legislature was in
reality vested in them. Of this, he (Mr. O'Connell) was
convinced, though he imputed to the noble lord no motive
or intention other than what the noble lord had declared.
He had heard from persons resident in Newfoundland, that
before the constitution was granted the colony was a burthen
to the mother country ; but, since then, the case was altered,
and public works of an extensive nature were undertaken.
Amongst others, a thousand miles of road had been laid down,
and the country was prospering exceedingly. The proposed
alteration of the qualification would be nothing less than a
transfer from the many to the few. The greater number of
the poor voters at present were Roman Catholics, who would
be deprived of their votes, and the feuds which were com-
plained of would be renewed under another name. If ten of
the persons in the House of Assembly were named by the
government, it would require but three adherents of the go-
vernment to be amongst the elected body to give it complete
sway over the Assembly. When he saw the bill of the noble
lord he should give it his best attention, though he was at
the same time convinced that he should be compelled to give
it every opposition.
Mr. C. BULLER thought that the bill, as explained by the
noble lord, so far from producing the harmony upon which
the noble lord calculated, would rather tend to perpetuate
disturbance in the colony. The provision was certainly a
wise one which enabled the government to restrict the waste-
ful expenditure of public money. He also approved of the
plan of blending the two assemblies into one, and to
have the crown represented in that one by means of
nomination ; but then there was the question of what
should be th relative numbers. (Hear, hear.) If three of
those returned by election should side with the ten appointed
by government and removable at pleasure, they would over-
ride the whole assembly. It would be as well to do away
with any representative system in the colony. He did not
quarrel with the proposed qualification, but he thought it was
an exaggeration to say that menial servants would be elected,
who would ask their masters' permission to take their seats.
He considered many parts of the proposed bill good, but to
place so large a nomination in the crown would be giving it a
power to over-ride the assembly.
After a few words from Mr. P. Howard, and Mr. S.
O'Brien,

Lord STANLEY in reply said, that he had proposed no re-
strictions whatever, but had only give to Newfoundland the
legislature which had been held in abeyance by his noble
predecessor in the colonial office in consequence of the state
of the island.

Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
Lord STANLEY, in moving for leave to bring in a bill to
make further provision for the government of New South
Wales, said, that the constitutional act in that colony had
been renewed by successive acts since 1836, and as it would
expire in the present year, he proposed to introduce the pre-
sent bill, founded in the material parts on the measure pro-
posed by the noble lord the member for London last season.
He had considered the provisions of that bill, and had made
some alterations, which were suggested by persons represent-
ing different opinions in the colony. The bill would conside-
rably extend the popular rights in New South Wales, but not
more so than he thought the population, wealth, and impor-
tance of the colony were fairly entitled to ; and it would also
constitute, for the conduct of local affairs, municipal districts
and bodies, which would be required by the legislature about
to he given under the sanction of parliament.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
Adjourned.

-4130,
HOUSE OF LORDS.-FRIDAY.

In reply to a question from Lord Dunalley,

Lord•WHARNCLIFFE said there was no reason to believe
that any general breach of the peace would take place in the
county of Tipperary. There had certainly been some outrages
committed, but they were not directed against the govern-
ment. The police force had been increased; and would be
still further augmented if necessary. The conduct of the
opulent class was, for the most part, highly praiseworthy,
but he was sorry to say that there were exceptions to the
rule, and the conduct of some of the superior class, as land-
lords, was inexcusable.

.
On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, a bill was introduced,
and read a first time, for the purpose of transferring appeals
from the ecclesiastical courts of Ireland to this country.
The bills on the table were forwarded a stage, after which
their lordships adjourned.