The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-05-13 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

. .
posed to far more serious risk by the movie which had
been actually pursued. The war of aggression into which
they bad been conducted, was a war partaking of the
worst designs of that imperial and warlike usurp'er who
had been dethroned by the confederated force of Europe.
without being likely to produce for or reflect on /trance
any of that military glory with which she before abound-
ed. In thus expressirg himself, however, he wished to
be understood as uninfluenced by any animosity against
his Majesty's Ministers, and as not animadverting upon
their conduct in any spirit of censure. Hut, adverting
to those impolitic engagements with foreign States, into
which the country had been hurried of late years, and to',
the frequency
.with which a late Noble Secretary was
obliged to remind foreign Governmen's, with less happy
or national systems than ourselves, that we were obliged
to act within certain limits and under particular re-
straints, surely they must acknowledge that we had
a direct interest in promoting the liberties of Spain,
as well as our old Ally, Portugal.—(Near, hear, hear.)
Feeling, as we did, that it was to our own free Constitu-
tion that we were indebted fur-our moral ascendancy, as
I well as for the greater part of our physical strength—
(hear, hear),—we must admit that, until similar princi-
ples should be propagat-d elsewhere, the natives of Eu-
rope must still remain subject to a recurrence of the same
evils.—(Hear.)
The motion was then put and negatived without a divi-
sion, when the other Orders of the Day being disposed
of,.the House adjourned at half-past Teo o'clock till to-
morrow (this day.)

GENERAL. TURNPIKE ACT.
MARERLY brought up a Petition of indiOidlials con-
cerned in the earriage of materials against certain prnt
aloes of the General Turnpike Act, restive to the us, of
the weighing mechlee, mid praying for a hearing before
the Committee.—Referred to the Committee on the Bill now
In the House, with leave to bring evidence.—Laid on the
table.

Mr. Secretary CANNING presented certain Papers re-
spectiog the Slave Trade.
Mr. 110BHOUSE said, he waited to take the present
opportunity of putting one or too questions to the Right
lion. Gentleman. A friend of his, an officer in the
Navy, had, by his advice, obtained one of the Right
lion. Gentleman's passports to proceed to Corfa, hut on
, his arrival at Rome, he fonnd, to his great surprise. that
the Neapolitan Ministerretused to rise it for Naples;
in consequence of which he was obliged to go by Anco-
na. The ittntleman to whom he alluded teas Lieut.
anti he now desired to know horn the Right
Honourable tientlem to if he had taken any steps in con-
sequence of the transaction. The Neapolitan ,Minister
could assign no reason whatever for refusing to rice the
passport. There was another circumstance which he.
also wished to mention. It appeared to him, shat since
the commencement of the war, sufficient protection was
not afforded to commercial correspondence. An ling
lisp commercial house, found on a recent occasion, that
instead of receiving the communication which they ex-
-pected from their correspondent at Seville, proclamations
from the Trappist and the Duke d'An.touleui.t come in-
closed to them.—(.A laugh.) It was the house of Bow-
ring to which he alluded, and the same might probably
have been enough to suggest to the French 6uvernment
conduct so reprehensible. The Proclamations were sent
from Vittoria.

Mr. Secretary CANNING said that, with respect t
the first point respecting Mr. Hlagniere, he hail heard from
that lientleman himself that the Neapolitan Minister re
fused to vise the passport, though he (Mr. Canning'
could not say why; but be had, however, directed an in-)
quirt' to be made into the transaction. With respect to
the other point noticed by the Hon. Member, he was
only surprised that c tttttt nercial correspondence expe-
rienced so lit!le interruption, in a country in a state of
war, where there were guerrillas and rubbers continually
wandering about. He did not know bow the lion.
31ember able to a4rectain that the Proclamations bad
come instead of any thing else.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said that the superscription of the
envelope was in the hand-writing of Mr. 800 ring's Cur-
respondent at Seville, but that nothing had come inside
except the Proclamations.
H Mr. Secretary 'CANNING said- it was not Mammal,
when such Proclamations appeared, for correspondents to
transmit thew.

Bere the gone tion dropped.
Lord G. SOM ERSE l' presented a petition from the
Bankers and Traders of Monmouth against the Insolvent
Debtors' Act.—Laid on the table.
FOREIGN CONSIGNMENTS.

Mr. J. SMITH presented a petition from certain
Bankers and Merchants of the City of London, com-
plaining of being exposed to risk in making consign-
ments to Foreign Agents, and praying that the Law on
the subject might he alt-red.
Mr. SCARLETT vindicated the law as it now stood,
contending that it was far less severe than th it which
prevailed in France, and other COM inercial countries.
Mr. BARINU said that there was some defect in the
law which required amendment.
Mr. HUSKISSON slid that he hal a petition to pre-
sent that night, praying for the sane object, and stating
the inconvenience of the present Law, as it affected
Bankers and Brokers. He a4tproved of the proposal to
go into a Committee, to ascertain what hardships did
exist. The Judges on the Bench, in giving judgment
in those cases, were obliged to admit there were some
hardships. It would be the duty of the House to see if,
they could not mitigate the ities of the lisigkejaowt.
violating. the principle, by which the factor was not to
exceed the authority of his principal. He trusted the
Committee ivotild have the benefit of the assistance of the
Members of the Learned Profession.
After a few words from Mr. Scarlett, Mr. Ricardo, Mr.
J. Martin, and Mr. J. Smith, the petition was read and
ordered to be printed.
Mr. J, SMITH gave notice that lie would to-morrow
move th it the petition be referred to a Committee.
Mr. CAWTHORN presented a petition from the Mer-
chants and Ship Owners of the town of Lancaster,
against the equalization of the duty on Sugar.—Laid on
the table. _

Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a petition from the
Butchers of Leadenhall market, complaining of the
great glut of foreign tallow in the market, to the great
prejudice of the petitioners and of the agricultural in-
terests. The prayer of the petition was for an increase
of duty on imported tallow, and he hoped it was in the
*contemplation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to
mike an alteration hi the law to that effect.
Mr. HUSKISSON said he was sorry that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer was not then in his place to
answer the question of the Hon. Baronet. To himself
it did appear that a further duty was a question of finance
and not of trade.
Mr. HI: ME said he was extremely anxious for the re-
duction of that and all other taxes, in opposition to the
petition, which prayed fur an increase of tax on the
people, who were the consumers of the article. He
hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be more
inclined to reduce than increase the duty.
Mr. MONCK said it was not by an increase of taxes
that the people could be reconciled to the distress which
at present pressed on them. He trusted the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would tarn a deaf ear to the petition.
Lord AI:LTON said the Honourable Baronet was
mistaken in supposing that the butchers of Leadenhall
would derive any benefit from the imposition of an addi-
tional tax.
After a few words from Mr. RICARDO and Sir T.

LETHBRIDGE, the petition was read and ordered to
be printed.
Mr. HUSKISSON presented a petition from the
Bankets, Brokers, and Merchants of Liverpool, praying
for an alteration in the lat►s relating to the principals
and factors.—Laid on the table.

air. P. MOORE presented a petition from the inha-
bitants of Coventry, praying for the abolition of the
Negro Shvery.—Laid on the table.

Mr. DENNISON called the attention of the Howe to
a petition, which-he •aid he held in his hand, and in the
subject matter of which the people of the country were
deeply interested. The petition came from a respectable
body of brewers of ale and table beer in the county
which he ►ead the honour to represent, and referred to
the Bill which the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was passing throng% the Howe. The Honour-
able Member stated that by the old law, the Excise
duty paid by the brewers was 2s. per barrel, that from
each barrel of malt th•-y were allowed to brew six bar-
rels of small beer, and bad 1,61. a barrel for it. By the
Dill in progress through the House, the Excise duty was
to be ss, per barrel, and the brewers were to be allowed
to draw give barrels of beer. for which they were to get
275. per barrel. By the new Bin the petitioners said
that they would be obliged to raise new buildings two
hundred yards from their present concerns. These were
only a few of the hardships of those persons who had
expended a large capital in their present establishment,
and if the Chancellor of the Exchequer was to try an ex-
periment, u the Right Hoe. tient. professed this Bill to
be, he ought not to subject the petitioners to it. 'They
prayMhto be beard by Counsel before a Committee it
that Dons•. Under the old law' they were subject to a
fins of• 2004. for wising their beer, besides dist they

tvottld submitito any penalty, even transportation. The
petitioners recommended to the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer to take off the duty on beer altogether, and pt.i
it on the malt.--(lietr, hear.) By the present systim
the poor paid wliTle the rich were exempt. By puttinZ
the old tax on malt, the burden would he eqoalled on all
the consumers, and the expense of collecting would he
saved to the country. He concluded by moving that the
petition he brooght
Mr. RICARDO supported the prayer of the petition.
Capt., MA BERLY expressed himself as decidedly ad:
verse to the provisions of the new Beer Act.
Mr. GREY BENNET objected to the system of
taxation on Beer altogether. From the manner in
which the tax operate.) at present. the poor man was
visited with a duty of fifty shillings a quarter on Malt,
while tlie rich man had not to pay more than twenty
shillings.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER s•ht,
that he had, on twiny former oeeasions, replied to the
same observations which he then heard. As there were
other stages when the If it itself it o,ild Cilllie before the
House, he woithl defer any explanat:oa till that timi, as
a discossion on the bringing up a petition o:,ly was pre-
, mature and unnecessary.
Mr. FP 7M H said, th.it the interests of a body of men
two had great propery invested, iles-rved more cou.6.
titration than it would appear they were likely to re-
ceive from time provisions of the Rill. Under a different
management the ]!alt Tax might be made more produc-
tive, even to the extent of 230,000/. alear. It was ra-
ther remarkable, that. notwithstanding the increase of
the population, there %ruin, increase in the consomp.
tiun of Malt. Ile recommended to the Chancellor of the

Exch.•gn►r to refer the Bill to a Com iii'tee up stairs.
where all conflicting interests might be heard, and justice
be elven to ell the parties.
Mr. ILI DLEY UULBO!tNE sripport.d The Bill, and
contended that the object of the tharicellOr of the Ex-
cher-ier was to procure an accommodation to the public,
an I not an inc of revenue.

Mr. P. PALMER edntended that as the linty being
placed upon trislt would enable every man to brew his
beer, or to purchase it upon equal WIWI, there was no
ground whatever for refusing to make the alt-ration.
Mr. MONCK took the some view of the question.
Mr. PdAHERLY asked whether the Rig.; lion. Chin.
rellor of the Exchequer would allow a Committee to he
appointed if be should move It, to take into consideration
the propriety of placing the duty on malt instead of beer.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
was not prepared to answer iu the allirmativo
Mr. MA ItEItLY then glee notice that he should, up-
on an earrly occasion, 1114V0 for the appointment of a
Committee.
Mr. BROUGHAM hod to thank his Hon. Friend for

the notice he had giren, and to regret that the Right
Hon.Oentleman had not consented to an inquiry. Every
discussion of this iniquitous tax would be useful, because
it would open the eyes of the country to the enorano..s
injustice of making the pour man pay a ditty of tiny
shillings where the rich man paid only twenty
lie was confident that so tryingly iniquitous at tax tonli
not long be supported by any Kitts- of Commons.
After a few words from Mr. DENNISON and the
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQL:Ra. the Petition
WAS under.' to he printed..
Mr. FOWELL BUXTON wished to put a qnestion
to the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Hoskiason) on a suhjeet of
great importance to a large part of the tuannfactnring it-
(crest,. On their behalf he wished to ask if the II in.
Gentleman wool.' consent to refer to a Committee up
stairs his profound Bilkrelative to the silk tuinufarthre.
If that would no: be granted, lie then would ask fur
some delay in tht production of the measure at least till
after. the holvdavv.
Mr. FIL'i:KISSON suit, that he has had constant
communication with p ,rti..s on waose behalf the Holl.
414tlenuan spok.., so that he was fully in possession of
their sentineen.s. He could nut consent to refer the
subject to a Committee, as he w:,l knew the inquiry
would be interminable, and he felt that he should nut
consult the interests of the parties, if be kept them in a
state of suspense. His intention was to bring in the
Bill, and have it re3cl a first time to-morrow, a seectol
time on Friday next, and he truul l defer the other st.ages
until after the holy bays.
A message from the Lords, announced their Lord-
ships assent to certain Bills; for which see the Lurds
Report.
Mr. BROUGHAM moved that the Crown Books of
Dublin, containing the panels of the Grand Juries, from
180 to 1822, be ordered.
On the representation of Mr. PLUNKETT, the no.
tice was deferred till to-morrow. _ _ _

Lord FOLKSTONE postponed his motion relative t♦
the equitable adjustment of contract, from Wedoestl is
nest to the iitla of June.
Mr. Sergeant ONSLOW postponed his motion on the
Usury Laws to that day fortnight.
IRISH INSURRECTION ACT.

Mr..GOULBUIVI said, that when upon a former oc-
casion he submitted to the House the propriety of ex.-
tending in Ireland the provisions of the Insurreclaa
Act, he ventured to express a hope that he sh mkt not'
again be called on to perform that duty. With the
greatest regret he found that hope to have been fall ici-
one, and that.now the painful ta,k was imposed on him
of recommending to the Haase to continue those provi-
sions, not for the purpose of preventing the recurrence
of outrage, butt of resisting an alarming, and in the opi-
nion of some a formidable insurrection against the laws
of the country. He was sorry, also, to have to inform
the House, that in particular districts—or rather he
should say, it was confined to t ne particular province—
that there was the sauna central disposition to outrage,
the tame general cotnhina•ion of the peasantry against
the property of the country, the same system of illegal
oaths and resistance of the laws by the snbs•itution of
others, supported by acts of terrible crime, as was mani-
fested upon former occasions of a similar nature. It was
impossible for him to undertake the defence of the law
be was about to recommend in the abstract; he did rut
stand BIT to represent it as a law conformable to the
Constitution. But he was convinced, they would not
withhold from the Marquess Wellesley that which be
firmly believed,and that which the Noble Marquess him-
self had shewn, by the documents on the table, to be ne-
cessary for governing the country under it. unfortunate
and peculiar circumstances. It was impossible for any
man to look at the daily records of what passed, and Dot
be convinced that there was something-1h the state of
the province of Munster, which required extraordinary
powers to correct its disorganisation. It was not only that
there was a division betwixt the poor and the rich, but that
the power of the multitude was Ex, wised in obs ructing the
ordinary course of the law. Criminals were protected
from justice by the whole population. If information
were obtained against any of them, he need not tell the
House That when the attempt was made to bring them to
trial, the evidence either disappeared, or under the ire
Iluence of terror witnesses tefased to come forward. At
the lase Assizes at Cork the number of those discharged
front the inabil:ty to bring the witnesses beforethe Brand
Jury, was almost equal to the number charged tat
crimes. In fact, the present rate of the clamory was
that of protection. to the wicked and criminal, and op-
pression to those who observed the law—to all that was
loyal,• good, and honourable. Time first object, theriofeff.
was to give protection to thut class, and to leave sub•
sequent periods the other measures of irnprovemallt. and
.amelioration. In other parts of the country the Act had
produced the greatest beneSe, by tratuthillialnethe te-
octal state of society. The House would recollect that
io the county of Lionitck, only eightan mobilo ago.

-r*-

these outrages were perpetrated,with the addition of -11-r-
-aystem of .ssas• inati in with which he was happy to say
the present disturbances in the county of Cork were not ,
c entaminated. The application of the I neurrect.on Act
bad already restored tranquillity to a great portim of the
county of -Clare. The same might be observed of the
county of Tipperary, ahieh had been among the most
disturbed of all tue c ties. He stated these circum-
stances to show that the law now • proposed. ,if enforced
with pre, iety, might eventually li•ad to the restoration
of tramptillity. II • hal rot, the 'Los. would observe,
eonsidere.d it neet ssery to enter into the extended qws-
lion as !o he causes of the disturbance,for which this law
was to provide. That uas a question which created the
gr.. tt st difference of opiniou among all who were con-
nected with, or took an interest in, the ali.irs of Ireland.
Ile considered it sufficient to shew that there was an
emergency which reeriiretl to be met by powers beyond
the reach of the ordinary constitutional laws. To those
who a ere anxious for an inquiry into the cease of those
distmlianres, he would say, " Let the disturbances be
first repressed, :old then 1- t the cause of than be examin-
ed." Unger the present eircums•acces, and while the
disterbat.ces tl•P:oselres existed, he thought it would be
impossible rt, ,e •f.Ost enlightened and scrutinizing mind
to ar.cert.in wll3t was that cause. He therefore
berg-d to tnue, ." That leave be given to bring in • a
II; II to co..tirne the said Act fur a time t he limited.'
Lebrd ALTIIORPR said, that the House was called
limbo year *ter ye.r. to pas, me• of co.rei,m, but
still fresh complait.ts sere made of the continutoce of
the distnrhinces which than measnres were in•ended to
pat down. lie thought tiro House ought to consider of
measures of conciliation t and, although Ise did not in-
tend to enter into f discossion of the affairs of Iceland, be
booed the II ;t2-e would give some pledge to institute an
Inquiry into lids subject. Ireland, at present, was of no
use to this corniry. Indeed, it was governed by a com-
promised Marini 'ion which rendered unanimity out
of the tines ion. He hard no objection to give additional
powers to the Government. provided they would give
oath a pledge as he bad mentioned. He should there•
fore move, as an Amen.lnsent, " that it Is the opinion of
Ibis House, that the measures of coercion so requently
adopted since the Union with Ireland, have 001 boo et.
Petted to improve the condition of the people, or to secure
the traeqn•luty of the country ; an I that it is necessary
to take into consideration the state of the Administra-
tion of the Lau ot Ireland, with a view ta secure the per-
nianent,peace ut the country, and an equal security of
rights.'
dlr. J. SMITH seconded the Amendment. It was im-
possible to serous. tort the cause of the disturbances
could not he ascertained. Scotland had snffered in the
tear 1817 from fana'n-, and yet no disturbance had
taken place there. tk an•lefstooil a plan had been
adopted by several Gentlemen of istfluence in Ireland, for
the impose of commencing a manufacture of roars.
cloth, wbt../t would ensure employment to a lumber of
the labouring classes, lie considered that mural and re-
ligions it sfrection :you'd have a vary beneficial effect.—
Riot and disorder were connected with ignorance, and
peace and regn'arity with instruction. He knew an as-
seriatim hail been formed of several respectable ladies
fur tit- purpose of giving instruction, unetroneerA with
tetigion. to the Right lion. Gentleman, a hailer lie
thought the measure now proposed. would restore tran-
quillity t.. Irebrud in three or four years ? Hs. corliellv
support-d the Amendment, because he thought this
would not he the ease,

Mr. ItOREICTSO:i thought many of the estiNsof Ire-
land tier, to I.e attributed to the persecution which was
vcrreis...4 spins: the Catholic Priests, and be sees
tiaisfiell that tranqnillity would nester be enenr-41 until
r.ligiotis distinctions were ob. bolted. .The lion. ()era:-
man here took en bi.torical rerirsr of the progreot of ro-
liginus toleration indifferent parts of Europe. for the pnr-
pose of chewing the benefit of toleration, and the mt•.-
rhief-ufa scant of Ile feared there was too great a
sintlarity littoirrn one Uovernment over Ireland, and
that of 'farlscy otter Oreeee t and lie helired it would he
dillicnlt to say wt might be the consivence of an i .IV:t-
-aloa of Ireland by a foreign foe. Ile tuought this mea-
sure would do more horns than good.

Sir N. COL'rilliftST said the disturbed state of Ireland
called fir-such ain as the present. If the Insurrection
Act had been -exercised as It ought, if it had been exercised
w ilia less lenity by Government ; If it did Rot en; ctually put
down disturbance. it would have. at all events, prevented It
from miedug to its present height. 'l'he present alarming
slate of tie country was owing, in some measure, to a beli..l
which prevailed among the peasantry, in some I rnpheciee,
that something would happen this veer. added, perhaps, to
the poverty with which they were surrounded.
Lord A. HAN: I uroN amid that he has constantly heard
the same complaints, and the same measures of severity
have been always resorted to without producing any effect.
There was not one of the Hor. Members whom be now saw
on the Treasury Ilene.. from whom he had not, at one time
or other, henrd the stronge..t end mO4 forcible argumeols
against the measures. The Attorney-Genera'. he recollect-
ed to have heard particularly condemn it, sad he now be-
came thg object of his own censure. It appeared to him
most extraordinary how Gentlemen opposite could expect
support in thnt House for the measures they pursued. The
'erasures now proposed for the pacification of Ireland, had
been tried over and over again, but without effect.
Mr. PLUNtiErr said he should not have risen at all
on the present occasion, had he not been pointedly alio.
ded to is the course of the debate. The Right Hon.
Gentleman then proceeded to vindicate the part he had
taken fora series of years in reference to measures con-
nected with Ireland. He war perfectly aware of the un-
constitatianal netitre of the present Bill, and lie oar the
last of all to admitth at Ireland could he governed by a
permanent Insurrection Act; but at the same time the
necessity of some such measure as that cow proposed,
was bat too apparent, and therefore his Majesty's tins
velm I ent felt it incumbent on them to sohnot it to the
House. He'cont.ended, that inspite of all that had been
said, as to his inconsistency with respect to the Roman
Catholics, he still continued to receive the most flattering
arrogance. of the confidence they reposed in hint. lia
lal3 he certainly rap d a strong opinion against the
Cabin, t being divider' on the Catholic question, hot that
opinion rertatnlv did not preclude him from since ac-
cepting the office with a hich his Sovereign had der.ere I
to entrust him. He was quite convinced that I rafiaod
could never be permanently happy or tranquil till the
<deities of the Catholics were conceded. He winter.' of
all things that the House should come 10 a unanimous
Cute in (lime of the present utotion, in order that every
(Waled wretch in Ireland might see that there woe hut
oneopininnentertained of the urgent necessity of putting
dose insurrection. As to the hill for the Commutation I
of Tithes, it was not fair to charge him with 'neon ist•
prey, because he sopporteil it, after having opposed the
measure introduced lay the lion. Welsher for Aherdicti
(tlr. llnnie). All he hail 'omit to routend oast that
tidies wer• nut public property, ar *st tit d lay that Wits.
'Reuther; but being private property, lie mew no. se.isun
why 'hey might not be di-posed of ip theTrame manner
ar any yaw prop•ltv belonging to issilivirleula; In con-
eksion, tie Right 'fon. tient:man &Wiles! the manner
in which the powers wider the Insurrection Act *ere
ssertised.
Sir N. COLTHURST and Lord A. HAVILTON ex-
pl
ht. JOUST NEWPORT was not disposed to withhol
Nit tioaterunient the powers they ask. d, lint he wished
hi have them conialeil o itb 111018,1gra tsf conciliation. The
Rig tt Honourable tientlem in VICO to .k a retrospective
new of the various e..ercicc ineasnres that had been aP-
pitertimuaisl64velaml sine, the Uni.in, all of a bich he
tie e'tfined had imiiiishly lit a ano t
and witbenst seam hint ti.c ribs to the hel-.
WA, it Would be imposeibie tv