The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-12-28 00:00:00

4 upon, and oarthe,tilioallit —
4, Order for referring the Repoli of the Con-
appointed to examine the 14yol Physicians,
gieCommittec of the whole Oulu% ou the &Jae
Nation, being read;
OEOI of CAItIASLE rose, for the potpie
beg their Lordships' attention to this pertka.
put of the subject, which he coveceised of
table importance. (lc briefly 'noticed the
which had been taken from the earliest period
do melancholy situation of his Majesty had
plOrly know, to the present moment, the
teeersr of which, anikthe principle on whielt
collect of Minieters .Eitteefi!ds tied his, dCcitt.•
probation. In ilMettemielf 'dit: .
emissions to do that whisth the Ai; et their`
Prescribed to them, they were now, after a
of eight weeks, proceeding to do that which
doald have done at the very earliest °pin.
•T, after that great national calamity which
ill deplored had taken place ; they were but
beginning to lay the fouudabou of that
g, which, if they had done their real duty,
4 wily to their country, but to themselves,
,rid ho considerably above the ground—perhaps
fe advanced, as merely to want the finishing
to be put to it. . This wont! now have been
case del Parliament perform its duty upon this
scant crisis. Instead of it, the work was left
*Governmeet, which, under the eirceaistances,
no particular description is the Constitiliii.in ;
as in fact a sprits of usnrpation. game
• g from the Omegas* Benches.) Tile oble
then roerted more particularly to the state of
lisjesty's health, the truth a atkielt seemed to
been iting concealed IL; gave full credit to
Noble lords in Adneluistatiou for their rele.
{what ; they must have been etioAlly_ de•
with the rest of hisMejesty's subjects. When
i looked over thwdoeummit which had jest been
1044 referred to the sionsitleratiwo of their
11.0, slid soospareil what appeared therein
Maas ef the Ilullatins issued shoot the time to
Nei ho alluded, be Nest tight it scertely pes•i-
b,thit ens % Misistere etleilletirel, could be ac.
mend *ids those tassfast Ilerty.sevec could have
aes Ova the asidillant *at nionili, sod held the,
i :they did. so :.11411iisimet, respecting She
digs Mapity'll Meth. But representations
Wks ritoter sitvoitildnot hare hose made the
Allnsillamossfdit prossapiltso, Aar should,
Irs theleSetwee lowans! (owlet riiil sesta of
Woe; and they shoeld not have suffered the
{were Power at the Government to remain in,
hinds it has against thu plainest principles and
Into of the Constitution. lie repeated this idea,
lit Noble Lords in the Administration could
It kete been aequainted with the real slate of the
IA of their Sovereign at 41te time, or they nom
have so acted. Ile begged their Lordship!
'consider what the statemetits, made by a ICIOR.
kV and Ileberden, respecting the state his Ma.
aty really were in tit the time to which ini allud.ri
t The Noble Earl here quoted .certain parts
Oat Report of the evidence of those Ma;
isi Gentlemen, which lay upon the . tablet
mitshirly where the former describes thus
teal Patient to have been, from the severity of the
fon, in a state of great peril. This was about the
tin! November ; an* when the latter stated that
*of the paroxysms appeared so severe as to giro
lirPhysiciausgreat apprehensions for the safety of
lislite, he could nut suppose that Ministers could
ine been acquainted pith the real State of the case,
tad of the dangerous state of his Majesty, or they
told never have raised hopes of his recovering so
tiedy as ti rendei. it unnecessary, in all probabi.
by, for Parliament to take those steps which were
lit, recently adopted. The Noble Earl then re.
trot to the language'of the Bulletins; signed by
tic Physicians, which lie considered very dill:treat
Li ',heir import from what the Physicians described
tithe CoMinittee to barn hoe. the aittration of his
Marty at the carsispoodlag period,. He c9n.
wid; that no man, 'from a perusal of those pa•
nu, reek' have harms She state the Sovereign was
"billy in at the time.. Upon the whole, when'
',sieved this part of the subject, on which, sp.
Wetly, a degree of delusion existed, equally in. I
Mots and reprehensible, he thought, that as the•
taunts given through ' those differuut channel,
'itse, solnaterially contradictory, the best elpedi.,
4
Mar arriving at the real truth, and the lan*
satt 4 the Sovereign's health, world be a re.exa.'
1
''russet, of the ' Physicians; and a proceeding la
n ktod woeld be the more desirable, as these stele:
r"%N% Were in high estimation in the world Inc lb*:
a
rent professional skill. Ile thonght Ditch a peso.:
Inures due to the dignity of Parliament, and
*miry for the infOrlnifilM of the Public at large;
ilislch
his. as h e would caromed,' recommend its adop.t,
I
Ilfr ESTI of LIVERPOOL. dl. not conceive it'l
.1.111417 to trouble their Lordships with any ebser-
mall, is consequence of what /lad fallen front
..11IN hi E
los:. e ad, farther than to say, that he, and
, sih whom he had the holVour to act, were
ilwif_st any time to fully discus and justify the
" of conduct adopted, under all the circus.
nes to which the Noble Karl had referred., lie
inht the discussion of such a topic won't, he
VI, irregular and inopportione in the preset
I.llll,__e_oor their Lordships' proceedings; he ' weimit
NIT T re mote the Order of the Day.
The •
1 question being put from the Woolsack, their
4elships accordingly restrived.intO a COU/OlitiSC Of
t:e lhOle HOUK' OD

rose, and said 44 I now
feel 'myself Galled upon to address yos; Lordships
upon the very important subject ender r n
deratien, and to call your Yqu •
those Itesolutious voted and Pcoart:nei9u-nariehilltecticti.tiatin°s"bt;
the House' of Commons, whir* yam halve jitS4
beard read. Upon the first of the Residelioses
'my Lorin, .1 think at this time, twebetenately,
there can arise no difference of opiate*.4i
charging* the painful duty ltaposo ob ....by -
statement of the mtiancholy fact referred tolls
tali Resolution, I am persuaded it it impossible to,
du joshes to • Muse teelidds, by twit....oesesept• of
it,;
to eltPAN'lliana
, i wth whit*/ art'. ttee ap
atettaxeumegmitiernifAiag a eireelastallia /Ft I.
•
mat, boo. tt belp expressing the notious hot*
`we ail inestialnetain on the restoration of a gra.
Sous and beloved Sovereign, under wittier ea-
.
spites, fur more than fifty years, we have enjoyed
a portion of liberty and uninterrupted tranquillity,.
which was never enjoyed by aisy ether country on
the face of the glebe; and I feel we all must look.
with pleasing satisfeetien to the hopes held out of
the re.establishinent of his Majesty's heidinv and the
hope of the ultimatecolioutption, by himself, of the
personal exercise of. his' Royal Authority. Nut.
trithatandieft, my Lords, what I have heard this
night orati•formee occasionS, I can take no blame
to myself, our attach any to my colleagues is
office, for Owed propositions we have from tune to
time made, in the hope that these measures, which
now may eventually he necessary to adopt, might
have been avoided. Ili this view of the case, it is im.
possible to consider the state in which the country
must be involvol'under such circumstances—a situ.
alien ita which it is now nearly two centuries and a
half ago since it was placed under a Government in
any degree c•isilar, which the afflicting considers.
lion we all deplore may render necessity. I Sky,
my Lords, when we reflect not only upon the dia.
culties but the degree of danger, naturally inekl est
to such changes, it is linpuasible that we should not
passe when any reasourble prospect presentee! it.
self of our being able to avoid such a state as that
to which I bath alluded. It was oar ditty, as MI.
nistets, In such circumstances, and our dety ta the
country, to endeavour to avoid it. Ido not sar
this, my Lords, from soy considerations of a par.
sone, nature towards any individual, however ex-
alted, but from public grounds, and from pubriC
principles. Under these.impressione I shall, at the
presort moment, eadeieiest - Iseult, mi week
as
possible, the consideration and discussion of ell er-
ttenrous poiuts, or of soy matter forcer from the
subject regularly before us. If I decline entering
upon any io these topics, it is not from any patti.
cellar nirwillirigness, or desire, to shrink from any
such discussiousl but because I feel they are nut
necessarily iuvol.a d in the question now regularly
before the Committee. The present questions
should be eholly considered op their own grounds,
and their exclirsite merits, and net connected willt•
any thing that, may tend to embarrass, instead al'
facilitating the disco tsien. That now before el ga.,
tirely and alone respects the coarse and mode of the•
proceedings which it may be necessary or adoptt
end as far as this consideration ens, Olt is, on in .1
time form of our proceedings, I • war indueed• to
think there would be no material difference of opt.;
akin ; but as I understand since, from what has
..passed in this /louse, and is other places, that it is
-intended. nut merely to object tothe etude in which:,
it is proposed to fill up the temporary deficiency.itt
the Constitution, but also to oppose the Whole
principle anti course of the proceedings adopted is
the year 1788. With respect, my • Lords, to the•
principle of that great end salutary precedent, whets
I cuusider it so analogous to, and founded on, the;
lenniate principles of the Constitution of this coaori
try ; when l consider the great. and eminent law
authorities who have given theic decided and express
lesuction to that principle and course of proceeding,
feel it a question of so much magnitude and im-
portanee, that I cannot avoid stating these general
.principles, at least, on which, in mt Eonvictinti,
;these Resolutions are founded, and4which I Con.
trite to be consonant to alt alumni great constitu.
liquid principles, by which I conclude year Lerd.l
.llhips would wish to be governed on such occa.
.sions as the present. The first principle laid down
is forming the precedent of 1788, was,•that the!
Throne must be considered as always full, and that
the Ptilitical capacity of the Sovereign was always
:in existence, whaler nay be the immediate tem.
.porary personal siteation of the Monarch. This 11
conceive to be a practical distinction of a nature
accessary to ensure to the governed the existence
se all the advantage* to be derived from the prin
chile of Monarchy. If the otereies of the Royal •
Authority, during the life of the legal Sovereign,
scrupulously reserved fur that Sovereign,
aveytleilarture from this principle on every oceasiou
of temporary personal incapacity might be, to lead
Se all the inconveideaces and dangers of a disputed
sncceisioo. The great 'object is the estahlkhment
of the monarchical system was, its affording a se-
curity, and the certainty of its affording a baiwark
against .the ambitious designs of individuals; the
;object should be, as far as poseihlo, to swots this
nystent against say interruption, and to etorlitiltte
end continue, as fat Si possible, the Eau:Make
4Power to the King upon the Throne. lilt, Owe,
toy Lords, should be inhletl, the cassiderntion that
the law knows no such abbess that or gored.—
That office was always created seeder 'special sir.
cumstancrx, and with necroses to a spacial cxi..
&eery. It was the uniform practice of asst anFes.

••

what
-
fromits being left open end undecided 4 Basic weft
lees than what would result from laying demi . ip".
coral proaretive rule; they thought It riot to
.liere It to 'wisdom of future Legislatures to pen-
t& that species of Government, according tot
. 'spatial drcumitances of the ;testicular cases;!as ,
*ay smear. Neither, my Lards, wits it *
. . stony ancestors, that'Ske succession to
•Iftti..
. ' -ilitoold •be regulated bj• .that of the
eery
su 2 .110. the Aliote...l7chy ; nor doei sunk a
line' Vbelieve, obtain. in ether Coins,
itntrnsiatid by Out Monarchical systetn, Intim,
,T id
29"1110,1401,11. tkentirAPpecent or Ileiellicatan.7
tVgitadertsgrountb I shield thin i
Ile i'lliii-pwritost fit wheals etteil no
shoed be netted. Evora where the Satire law pre-
vails, the itext in succession to the Throne is nut
considered. as the properest to exercise the author'.
ties of a Regent. The assumed principle of a right
vested it; the next in succession to the office of R 3.
gent was not founded on the principles of the Coii..
stitution ; nor was it to be fused in the Sta.
Asa" Book. There was no Instance in the his.
tory of the country of a Regent who. had out
been appiiiiited by the' authority of the existing
Legislature. Indeed, an instance of a claim to
the Regency bent* made, was 'to be found in the
reign of Henry VI. when the next of kin (the Mu.
much being then in a state of infancy) claimed the
exercise tthe Royal Power. The claim was dis.
cussed in Parliament, and it was the opinion of all
the great authorities of that day, that such a claim
was entirely unfounded, and it was so determined
by the Legislature. Indeed; all the cases in the his-
tory of the Realm eilnced that no Regent wits ever
appithrted, except by the authority of Parliament.
it is also appareet,- my Lords, from a review of,
lour hiitory, that there was no instance of it RA,
gene!, with the ex,:eption of the Duke ofGloeires.,
, ter. ifterwards, King Richard 111. and the Protect
llooniorict, that was nut in sonic way or other limite4V
',end restrained by Parliament. Even the Duke of
York, in the reign of Dewy VI. notwithstanding
all his power and influence, he could nut obtain
the Regency otherwise than as a restricted grant. I
know! my Lords, it may be objected, that these
NM lo which I Tater are drawn from tinsel and peo
rinds of etierctiit. end . violence, but they are times
sowhiett4iii:iilitetrons of the greatest legal and
. .
eisistit , an. Odra, we should look for the
kmadadoits of..tklitfiberty which we now enjoy;'
Shot these footulas were laid from the accessiutt
of Henry lA. to the reigu of Henry VII. But,
my Lords, it is rwt to precedents formed in these
times that we can alone refer; we have them many
degrees nearer to the present time. Idu not now
menu the great case of MS, that I shall advert to
by and by. The cases I mean alfor'd us ample proof
of the opinion of the country as to the. principle.
I allude to the Act of the 25th of George the Sc.
cunt, made in contemplation'of 'the minority of his
present Majesty. I enter nut into pareicular cif:
cumstances Or arrangements, but it shows the pre.
valence of the•principle at the time, that the next
in succession was not, as a matter of course, enti.
tleitto the office or the powers of Regency, and
that, the dice to be contingently exercised was not
created. withiont limitation or restriction. The Act
fur the eventual formation of a Regency, P 4 the
early „ part of . the present reign, proceeded upon
the same principle ;, Inc next in succession to the
Throne was not to be invested with the Regency,
neither was it to be exercised without limitation or
restriction. All the precedents and authorities in
the Statete.,Book, or in the page of history, evince
the principle that no individual whatever, has any
right to the Mice of Regent, save what he cleated
from Parliament, and that such was founded on the
best principles of _oar Constitution. I shall now
proceed to the consideration of the mode in *hid*
such office, in caw of necessity, may be Conferred
by the. Legislature; There exists only two, that
by Adams, awl that by Bill. As to
,the person
on whom the office should he conferred, they were
all agreed. By time *mode of Address, his Royal
Highness would be desired to take upon him the
Government of the country---tom an act of the Ire.
gislature it would be provided he should do so ; but
I would ask, if any particular individual has no le-
gal title to the Regency, whether both modes of
proceeding are of celled (lilt:eq. However, it
proves, by your own sheoliiii, that the authority
ptoceeds from Parliviutestf,w hick eter mode is adopt-
ed. 'rho mode of Address in itself Can confer no
1 legal powers, tad in every view I can take of it, I
consider that of prodeeding.by Bill the only mode
iwe cau Adopt. The Address, my Lords, can con-
fer no legal poster, it can form no records nor be
taken outice of in the Courts below. The Address
may call forth into action any legal power almuly
in existence, but it can confer no . pewee by law
which did no pravion,ly exist. Na objection of
:this iort could lie against the (nolo of proceeding
by Bill, which, svith the Great deal alibied to it,
mUst be duly regarded in all thcConrts of th4Realin.
1 contend;-that the annexation of the Grpat Seal
would have such effect—the Courts weriebound to
',obey it—no covenant could be made' against it in
,rho Courts of Law." Here •
Earl STANHOPE.rose to order, hat on its ap.
tpaaring the Noble Lord was mit .ge_perally sup.
fortert; holibarrited,lt was competentroshins
.niarreet a mistake- inm. Member of the Come
T be, Earl of -HARROW RY observed, in\
[_that his Noble Friend was 'perftmtly in tract;
take was no transgression of order.
. .. .

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, .
'he Ei at LIYERPQOb
.resuilned. 116 Mitt:,
led Poo the accuracy of the former tlti'lion.—=
' winiliy Of tkettreat Seale-411y be questioned
Aimiseot, but it be questioned in any
Al COurdt below. I catinat better express my
apieNin oe thlt head; than by tefeiting to the lan.
game 'it 4 fittest la* authority now no Mery I •
mean thin' late hoid Camden ; he had a particular
degree of ithrreCieess ineapeessing his elitism/nil, and •
I 'White, five itilhat I hate heard or read upon ,
the. aitbject,.& hem silt I could celiett froth my
etiatersattnat with permits eminently learned iii the
kw, tkat the orkion of that-great lawyer. was in:
controvertible; psztahe rifiahle kart lead the dpi.
Men ke alibied iory to Mitigating the greet leet •
aeiii.*j or Atoi. VS*, notate( bait turn a
.morlt etrilaneprotitthen tn eff Of its wiriest.
Va1ea.,,,2 jsB,"#.4l,loo,otOilese of the 'reign .
ottot
I-Fg..... • ~ Ai ' tatt 'irocobtatid
a di
74 . • • • • • .kW 'l4 atia.
sere.. deeht wherifie Ike • wetil WI eerie.' ret '-
,has At.; remeined in force, and war never questiob.
ed during tit.: reign of h;2. nattier, Ring t 414,
the Vlth. This itgets a stir lug proof of the Mfg.
eacy of the Cerebra Seal, which, Ken whore ..it *ag
doubtful whether the Royal Assent Was ditty A:
tuned, yet fur an interval of several ),cars its oleo
thority was not attempted to be• set aside:. It was
only in Parliament that the authority of the Siveit
Seal can be questioned or retoked. From a,l I
hate aid, my Lords, I most Conclude, that ears, .
of the persoaal incapacity Of the sing to efertify
his went, there remains do other mode tti priiiiiisi
for the deficiency, but by legislation; it . Ike only
in the two remaining branches to provide flit filling
up the deficiency t and of this, it I before otia,
served, there are numeral's precedents: The prin.:
ciole of the present . proceeding, my Lords, gait
throughout upon the consideration of the Throne
being full—than the C4urts of Justice aro fitted
—that all the Commissions from the Crean are id
full force—and that the State is alive in all its pull:
In the much-vaunted mile in 1688, the case was fee
otherwise—the Throne was recant—the Courts of
Julio wete shut—the -Great Seal was destreyedi
Under these circumstances there was then nontluo
native; they had no power, do authority to .htigislidel
Mot they adopted that mole und r the eircunisixotiek
which appeared to them most boneficial•to the Sate;
they adopted it on the exigency of the ease. Attu
ther instance, my horde, adduced of the 'mode qI
proceeding.by Address, is the well-Itactird ;east Ur,
the Irish Parlianseat, in 178110 ThOt! Bog . tied
pleased to deterntitiC on the mode of Address ; but
to too immortal honour of the Nate Marquis Whit
I.tten resided in that meat iyaatitts Represented*a of
die Sovereign, he *fibbed friiinitoesrerysetiettoir In
his potter, anti Loren Witted to' transmit it to this
country. But, my Lords, a material coasiiieration
applies to this proceeding of the Irish Parliament,
mean the discussions of the question of a Unity%
with that country in 1799, via. that this very pre.
ceeding of the Parliament of Ireland in 1788, by
Mode of Address, was urged as ad argument fur the
Union, inasmuch as the Legislatures in .thcir Seim.
rate state may, oa the occurrence of such an °tent,
choose a different person to fill the office of Regeut
in 'Medd, from that, chosen to fill the same office
in England. This Was admitted, as far as it Went, ,
to be a conclusive argement. The precedent of
1788, my Lords, I contend, in all its points and
bearings, is the only one which, under the present
and precisely similar eireumstances, legally and con.
stitutionally govern our proceedings. It was .aims
ply and fully.discitised in both Hoeses of Perna! .
meat at the time, and the Resolutions irlflah I hale
the honour this nigh‘to submit to you, were coati- t
tied in both Houses by codsidetablemajorities. Id
Additifth to what I have already adverted to on
-this head, is the conshletatinn, that iii purulence to
the Resolutions of both Reuses} _ Parliament was
opened by Commission, -udder the Great Seal, on the
34 of February; and. it is well Irrietwti, that pa .
wards the Mote of that Mouth his Majesty happily
recovered ; and, on the 10th of March, Parliament
was regularfropelied by Commission, uticlee the aca.
custeated formillties, theContosissioo Wing siededby
his Majesty. But id the first Commission, I should
state, that the cause Of the Meetingof Parliameet,
untleritteh circumstances, etas duly stated.. In the
resider and ordinary .Ciontilissiod for upetling the
&lesion on thiloth of March, the limiter Commis:.
shin WV. teforreal td end recognised, as appeared
from thoi,theu Lord Chancellor's speech to both
1 Houses in the iliittle, of his Majesty ' the former
C.iminissioners were continued ift the dommissium:•ut
the 10th of March, and
,the acts and proceedings
under the former Commission were recognised and
cotifirineti by that issued in the customary way, sod
signed by his Majesty himself. In the interval be.
ttiellit the Commissions a variety of legielative pea.
eeetlidgs had taken plate, its Pritate Bills, , for .
eihieliNtitions had been presented in the usual Way,
and some of these *ere considerably talvaitced,iii
their progress. Were the former Commission to
which the Great Seal wu affixed not on the personal
authority of his Majesty, but oti that of the two,
Houma only—held to be invalid, or illegal, Or nut
sauctidned as it afterwards was, what must have be.
come of all Hulse various Acts, to which I have 'al.
I uded ? Deter it were thought doubtful all tbpsa
proceedings must ,have fallen to the ground, and
must have commenced anew. But the fact was the
reverse ; all these Bills were taken up in the stages
in which they were found by the second Cele.
miesioners, and went afterwards passed under it.
cer

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THE STAVE OF THE NAT ON, -
111pRICIA& PARLI , • vi .k.,
And loud Walsiughans having taken the Chigri tors so to act, and in their wiadom they formed gni The Earl of Lli
general preeatfrnt for the guidance of pecteri,y tended for Ad accui
0 uopsE OF LORDS. Tleaspat, Dr. . •7.
"' TATE OF/118 AI I.IMITIL, H. EXL H. the Resolutions coiumnnicated by the Collimus •upon the point ; rho felt the danger of medJhoo, "The validity of tbc
were then read by the Clerk,
frussiass to the Order of illii DAy tali regularly on which
rl LIIVER,POOI, rose. and said. " I now with a principle •..f the kind so great, that they by Parliament, but I
. ...nn_ did on the ommition of their Lord- FA thought that vrhataver inconveniences may arise of the Courth beim
. . • I A • 1...”. . .amaa .....L.Nsn Ha fide Land

rsuy sup. se. mainv•••• • ...7 .- . .
sins to rift authority. and under these Amy so passed, a cOn.
amities. sidatable portion of property was slow held, These
toloweik atoslinances proved that a Atli Parliamentary an.
Act; unit; thosity, duly sauetioaed kr thi fins,. was gprein to
the ptotmedhsgs alliptods fit tiO girt- iitifeafies by
..
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