The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-06-17 00:00:00

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yiJ!if

ha a the effeet of introducing new connections, actually starving. The Noble Lord, however, had
which could not fail-to have most prosperous and be- put it on a different footing, and was for waiting
neficial results. At all events, he hoped the House till we could send a proposition to America for the
would not at present interpeoe its judgment between acceptance of that Government ; while the mann-
the Crown and the AmeriCtur Government.' He was factoring interests were at this moment in breathless
eons:ions nothing had been discovered in the con- expectation, to know whether they were to be doomed
duct of the Executive Government of this country to starve or not. He begged the House would not be
•:d hostility to Ame.:- Indite confidentV caught by the delusion, but by their decision prevent

iy tow ...4, ..... 4 tneit
the manufacturers from being driven to profoundand
absolute despair.
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST spoke at considerable length
against the motion.
Mr. PONSONBY said, be saw no reason for any such prepo-
sition as that mentioned by Lord Castlereagh. The American
Minister had distinctly and plainly stated to our Ambassador
there, that as soon as the Orders in Conacil were rescinded, that
instant the Non-Intercourse Act would cease. The Noble Lord's
proposal could therefore do no good ; and nothing but an express
revocation of' the Orders in Council could be availing and ef-
fectual.
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, that if we concede at all, we
should do it so that we could claim the promise of the American
Government. We ought to give the manufacturers security.—
Asking America what she will do, when she has already
declared what she will, seemed to he giving her a hint
she might recede from what she find promised. We had
now an opportunity of acting decisively one way or the other,
and don't let us, by steering a middle course, lose the advantage
we might derive from acting with openness and candour. Ile
hoped we should always endeavour to cultivate the friendship
of America; and he thought we should be more likely to obtain
it by revoking the Orders in Council, than 6y any other means
we could pursue.
Mr. N. VANSITTART said a few-words in favour of the
motion.
Mr. WILBERFORCE and Mr. YANSITTART usatually
explained.
Lord MILTON dechurd his Inability to comprehend the
' cise intentions of Maiden, or whether, in ‘the event of tie
Flinch Government reinforcing the Berlin and Milan Decrees,
it was proposed to re-enact the Orders in Council.
'Mr. cANNING observed, that so far as the question related
to the general policy upon which the Orden in Council had been
Wiled, he retained all dime opinions by sdhich they had bees
originally jitstitied. He considered the principaLto which tat 7
owed their birth, not as a principal of commercial policy, bet
of belligerent retaliation. This view of them had that night
been recognised both by the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) and the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rose). He bad seen with con-
siderable concern some deviations from the spirit of this later-
pretation, because, however essential it might he to the national
character to assert with vigour our maritime and political tights.
it was not less accessary to prevent that assertion from bier-
fering with the just *claims or privileges of other States. Ha
should regret, therefore; to see a measure of belliger:nt policy
converted into a pretence for monopolising the commette of
neutral Powers. The question, however, appeared to him to
have been put on a too partial issue, when it was made to de-'
peed altogether on the (Went Of commercial distress, of which
those Orders were regarded as the cause. He held, indeed, that it
was an important duty, and a most binding obligation on every
British Statesman, to su.tport the commercial intern* of the
Empire, hut he believed this to, be not inconsistent with an
anxious solicitude for the preservation of its maritime and poli-
deal rights. The Right Hon. Gentleman then contended at
some length, that the document issued by the French Govern.'
meet, contained a principle subversive of all national law, that
the new principles proclaimed by the enemy were aJtoarther
new, and that whatever coneessions had been made at different
times as to the unlimited rights of Neutrals, these concessions had
been made between particular States, who could not hove the
power of extending their ap lication to other countries. He
had some objections to the word suspension, and wisissil that
the Orders might be considered at once as revoked, in order that
if hereafter ?cue% ed, they might begie-de novo, and establish
them merely as a belligerent measure.
Mr. BROUGHAM shortly replied; and congratulated the
Honer on the expiration of the Orders in Council. He was
sorry that his Honourable and Learned Friend (111r.Stephea)
was not present to mourn at the death of his favourite system.
He was happy that u painful enquiry had not been in vaiu, and
trusted, that their constituents would not receive thefts the less
'favourable for the work they bad accompli•hed.—jlieer, hear !]
After some conversation between Lord Casaereugh, Mr.
Brougham, and Mr. Canning, respecting the best made of dis-
posing of the question, the Gallery was cleared for a division,
which did not, however, take place, upon an understauding that
the Orders in Conseil shall be annelled.,—Adjourned at Three
o'Cleek this morohig.

that &hen .atility to America ; a, iy
hoped the present negociations would be so managed
as Co put an end to all differences subsisting between
the two countries. The Vote he would propose to
• the House would be, to pass to 'the Orders of the
Day. [An universal cry of hear, hear, hear! from
the opposition side of the House.) 'He confessed he
did slot understand that cheers If 'the documents
which were necessary had been before the House, he
should have met the motion with a direct negative ;
as it was not so, that would be the motion with
which he should conclude.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that in rising to address
the House, be was completely at a loss what words
to make use of, for he was totally unable to under-
stand the meaning of the Noble Lord. He begged
tho Voille Lord would say what it was he meant ;
and if .se was better understood by any one else, he
(Mr. Whitbread) should confess that he was truly
Chili of apprehension. The Noble Loid seemed to
will, the flour. to'believe, that he proposed to do
sonethlog coaciliatory to America. But did he mean
to at i.naseeliately on•his proposition or was it his
intention to (MU America, and tell her, that
if she weald relax its her late system of the Non-
'itemisers, Act, this country would suspend, or re-
voke, of ahsndbn, or do what with the Orders in
Couch, ? Did he mean to give any relief to the star,-
leg ..innufacturers and mimed capitalists, or did he
. nan to advise his Royal Hight", the Prince Re-
gent tq withdraw the Orders in Council till this ques-
tion should be desernioecl ?
Lord CAS"! LEItEAGH in explanation said, he
meant as he had state, that a proposition should be
made to the American Government to suspend im-
mediately the Orders in Council, on condition that
they would suspend their Non-intercourse Act ; and
that in the interval both parties should use their en-
deavours to prevail on Bonaparte to restore the rules
of commerce to their ancient customary limits.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, if this proposition was
to be sent out to America, and it was expected that
the House and the country should wait tilt they re-
ceived an answer, it was the greatest delusion that
bad ever been attempted. Could he,'after what had
parsed, suppose the House of Commons would wave
the question any longer. The manufacturers had de-
clared they could not wait longer. Theieneml and
deeply distressed state of the country loudly declared
It ought not any longer to be postponed. What had
induced the House to interfere with' the Executive
Government? The answer was plain and obvious—
it was the conduct of the Executive itself. The state
of the coectry was so alarming—the cries of the
Petitioners were so truly piercing, that it could no
longer he put off. It would depend on the decision
of the House of Commons, whether you would have
thousands and thousands not only destitute of bread,
but in i state of absolute despair. .If the House de-
termined to rescind the Orders in Council, there
could be no doubt but the looms would immediately
and numerously be set a-going, and ships would be
instantly freighted. If the Noble Ltwel's proposition
be adopted, not a single loom would be seen to move
—rot the sail of one single ship would be unfurled
for commercial concerns with America. That coun-
try had till to-night been calumniated as a Govern-
m-eit, and had never been treated 'with the respect
due to an independent power ; and it was high time
that we should awake to the real interests which be-
longed to the commerce and manufactures of the coun-
try . He did hope, the Noble Lord and his colleagues,
after haslet witnessed for so long a time the dis-
tressed situation of the manufacturers, and after learn-
ing from the evidence what was the cause of it, would
have come forward to have put an end to such crying
evils, by a determination to suspend the Orders in
Council, with their concomitant mischievous attend-
ants licenses—and their subordinate supporters—fraud
and perjury. He had in his hand papers which had
been left in the hand of a bankrupt, who had dealt in
these simulated papers ; and the-clerks of that very
bankrupt had since advertised, that all persons who
were desirous of obtaining sitaulated papers might be
immediately supplied by them. The question was,
whether the Noble Lord would suffer thousands
to remain without bread, or would go on with this
system of simulated papers and licences. He would
ask the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Rose)
whether the American Minister, from the first mo-
ment of the Orders in Council being mentioned, did
sot protest against them—whether that Minister did
not warn him and his colleagues, that if they were
persisted in, they would involve the two countries in
a war; and at last told both the belligerents, that if
they did not relax In their several systems, they
could not be on terms with either of them. France,
bad been the first to relax, and thence the state of
our starving manufactures. And besides, that while
it was pretended by Ministers in this country, that
they meant these Orders in Council as a measure of
retaliation on the enemy, and negotiations were car-
rying on by means and through the medium of an
Ambassador, sent expressly for the purpose from
this country, a base and scandalous attempt had been'
made, which appeared to have been sanctioned by
the person now at the head of the Administration
of this country, to separate the Northern States from
their uniou with the Southern. [A cry of no, no!
from the Ministerial Bench.] Mr. Whitbread said,
it appeared from Lord Liverpool's letters, that this
Man had been employed by Government; and he
-: bad no doubt but when the papers were granted
which had been called for and refused, the fact would
be proved, that such person had been employed for no
friendly or laudable purpose. This action, he said,
bad given into the hands of the American Govern-
ment the most powerful engine of war that could be
• devised. The Noble Lord had said, that the cause
of the distress of the manufacturers was owing to
their having made too many goods on speculation. He
. - • believed the Noble Lord had never read the evidence;
for if lie had, he would have found no such inform-
' ticm there he most have derived it from some other
soured, which was not to be depended on. The el.',
dente told the direct contrary, and spewed that they
1;841 t: fa etured not from speculation, but to keep
tee men who had been long In their employ from

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THE STATESMAN.

LONDON:
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 17, 1812.

The following
_extract of a letter, received this
morning by a Gentleman k the City, from a highly-
respectable Correspondent at Charleston, contains
the latest particulars which have reached this country
respecting the progress of the Revolutionists in Amelia
Island :

" CHARLESTON, Aran, 21, 1812.
Capt. PRILUPS, who left. Amelia on Wednesday last, in-
forms us that the Revolutionists were still before Augustine,. 1
Without having made any progress; the adherents of Spain had
removed their women and children to an island protected by the I
fort into which they had retired, determinlsd to defend them-
selves to the last extremity. The Revolutionists were going to
erect a battery to command the entrance of the harbour to pre-
vent dies receiving supplies,by which they hoped to starve them
oUt. It liandentood that our Government do not countenance
the partaking is behalf of the Revolution, and that orders were
expectoljkstlterair the United States troops and naval lorte;
this proceeding would; COliever, iiot affeiethelitaiwonlki Rh.
volationists, as they could have assistance from the Cherokee
Chief, who has offered them assistant*, which was refused.—
There were two or three small English armed vessels ia the har-
bour of St. Augustine when our gun-boats were or that place,
and an American boat, which wassent to sound the bar, was
fired upon by the Spaniards. Oa the 10th inst. a smart firing of
both great guns and small arms was beard by our vessels in the
offing from the Fort of St. Augustine, but the causeway not as-
certained. .The Nautilus and Charlotte, from Amelia, with
British goods, have been seized:at Charleston."
•

Mr. BROUGHAM is entitled to the thanks of the
country for the fearless manner in which he brought
forward the question, last night, in the" House of
Commons, respecting the Distressed State of our
Manufactures, and the Repeal of the Orders in
Council. It will be seen, by our Parliamentary Re-
port, that Lord CASTLEREAGH moved as an mend-
ment to Mr. BROUGHAM'S Motion) that the House
should proceed to the other Orders of the Day. Whe-
ther his Lordship toot this course, from a dread
that Ministers would be in a minority, if a division
I was allowed, we have not the means, at present, of
ascertaining. It is stated in several of the Morning
Papers, and this is perhaps the true reason why Lord
CASTLEREAGH. acted AS he did, that it is the intention
of our Government, in the mean time, to suspeled
the Orders in Connell; and to require America to

repel her Non-importation and Embargo Acts, when
the final repeal of our decrees, in so far as they re-
spect neutrals, will be immediately resorted to ; and
a Declaration to that effect will, it is expected, be
published in Saturday. n' ht's Gazette. Mr. WHIT..
BREAD seems to regard any act of the present Minis.
tern, short of an immediate total repeal of the Orders
in Council, as &subterfuge to get rid of the question.
Mr. Haoucnam, however, stated that he con-
sidered the measure of Lord CASTLECLEAGH as
the death-blow to the Orders in Council.—Un-
til we peruse the Declaration of Miuisters, we
shall not be rash in advancing any opinion on the
subject, though we cannot help entertaining san-
guine hopes, that the sentiments entertained by Mr.
BROUGHAM will be found to be correct. If the
filed determination of our Government be unfavour-
able to the prayer of the Petitioners, thousands of
industrious. Manufacturers will be immediately
thrown out of employment by their Masters ; who
have hitherto prevented so great a calamity by in-
vesting their whole capital in stock, in the expecta-
I Con that measures would be taken to re-open-the
i market of the United States, the most beneficial, in
levery point of view,, which this country has ever
.1 possessed for the sale of its manufactures.