The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-03-06 00:00:00

STATESMAN.

TI

But shoal I they succeed in the opWie.thett the troth
come
could co. out, that Ireland . t governed by a
Lord Lieutenant carrying into execution the will of the
King's Itlinisters, hut by a lend Lieutenant acting under
the cutroul and influence of Orangemen in Ireland.—
(Hear, hear.) If inch should unfortunately be the ease,
it would only prove the inference, that the same jealoos
spirit which sheeted the recall of Earl Fitswilliatn —that
the same jealous spirit which effected the recall of the
Marquis of Cornwallis, whose justice ant wisdom lie
should always applaud, notwithstanding the reprosefies
cast upon him by others, that the same spirit elt:ch fur-
nished him with his last argument for the Union, yet
lived in the Orangemen of the present day. When air.
Pitt first proposed the Union in that house, he felt him-
self oppressed by that party of which Orangemen were
now the representatives, and stated as an argument for
its necessity, "that if measures which would. secure the
happiness and tranquillity °Preload were to be adopted,
it could only be in an impartial Legislature, removed
I from the seat of contending parties—so placed as not no
be influenced by those possessing property. or soviets
a Legislature which would give way neither to the
haughty presumption of the few, nor open the door to
popular influence." Ireland was now in the same
situalon, and he was satisfied it could have no remedy
but front a Legislature standing aloof from all party con-
tendon. He had hitherto abstained from a most import-
ant point, the legality of these Institutions. If they
looked only to the statute of the .50:h of the late King,
be knew it would he extremely difficult to put a construc-
tion upon it, but he was relieved from the necessity of
confining himself to this statute by the opinion of the
present Chief Justice of the King's Bench, in Irelantk
who declared the oath of Orangemen to be illegal. On,
a trial which he wonld,not now name, for certain reason?,
it etas stated that a witness, who was an Orangeman,
ought cot to he believed, because he was pl seed between
two oaths, one of which he should violate if he hold the
troth. The Judge, in delivering his opinion, stated (hy-
pothetically it was true.) that there was no proof that
such an oath was taken, and be did not•believe that it
was; but if such an oath were taken, the witness was
placed between two inconsistent obligations, one of which
was certainly illegal, and was therefore bound in a
Coart of Justice to adhere only to the legal obligation,
and trample under foot the other. With such authority
lie (Mr. A.) had no hesitation in pronouncing the 0-
raugeman's oath illegal. Ile would have wished not to
have mixe I up the question with the introduction of law,
bat finding such distinct and decided authority to sup-
port him, he was entitled 'o think that these oaths were
Melt:it. If so, then, what steps hive been taken to put
do iii this society ?—(Hear, hear.) Had not its ille-
gality brim discovered till now: :f illegal under the
statute, it ions' have been illegal ever since the statute
Wei pased, and yet no steps had been taken to put down
this institution. ills object was that the House should
now adopt some measure to put it down, which he
thought the motion with which he intended to conclude
would affect. His proposition was, that an address
should be presented to the Crown, calling is atten-
tion to the constitution of associations formed upon
exclusive principles, and pledging the 'louse to con-
cur with his Majesty in all lawful measures for main-
taining and enforcing the laws in Ireland, and fir
securing to it • the benefit of the Constitution. This
was the object of his motion. He admitted that
Government would have a powerful body to contend
with; but the expression of the opinion of Parliament
that these societies ought to be put down, would at once
rdestroy their strength. He thought it would be quite
sufficient if Parliament declared its opinion, and he
would leave the execution of whatever measures it might
be necessary to adopt to Government. The house mist
perceive, from what he stared, that these societies, as
long as they were suffered to exist, sonst_plove a serious j
obstacle to the tranquillity of 'rebind. 'This was there-1
fore an important spsestion, mit only for Ireland, but
also for Enolanil. At the Union it was held out to
Ireland hoW much it it child be improved b' transfer- I
ring capital to it from this country; but who would
venture to transfer capital to that cuentre, when, on all
discussion upon. it io this house, Meinimss sectned to
rival each other in swing the degree to which it was
agitated. WWI would transfer capital to a country
where no one would live who could live out of it ?
This was the cause of so many absentees, and they must
I continue as 'stair as no person can be f suns' in the coon-
try to purchase their properties, which will never hap-
pen till a return of tranquillity will induce persons to
transfer capital there. Why was it necessary to keep so
large an army in Ireland to maintain the peace of the
country? Was the existence of Orange Societies. the
cause. For this reason alone he was anxious to prevail
upon the house to express its opinion upon their vicious
tendency. It was in vain to say that they could not he
put down: if Government were intent upon the point,
(hear, hear,) and showed a fixed and decided determina-
tion to put them down, they would a. on become extinct
for the general opinions that prevailed in Ireland was
that these societies were encouraged by Governmentond
that those who were not members of them were thought
disloyal and beheld with suspicion. If they were ille-
gal, as he entertained no doubt they were, there could
nut he any difficulty in putting them down. The house'
shoald consider that the Union was yet on its trial, and
that the advantages which were promised as the result,
were not yet been realized; and if ever a body of separa-
tists should arise in that country, they would then be
called upon to show those blessings which followed
what was said to be so -valuable a measure. Year
after year had passed away, and yet they had not
taken place. Ile therefore entreated the house not to
continue in that state which would give any Separatist
the opportunity of stating all the advantages which were
promised by Mr. Pitt as the consequence of the Union,
and calling upon it to point ant one which had been
realized. 'fhe Hon. lient. concluded by moving the fol-
lowing resolution:—
" Resolved, That his Majesty's faithful Commons, deeply
deploring the dissensions in. Irelan t which for a length of
time have agitated and convulsed that country, and which,
amongst other evils, have led to the formation of societies
founded upon exclusive and unconstitutional principles,
beg leave to assure: his Majesty of their cordial and zealous
concurrence in all measures fur maintaining and enforcing
the laws, for giving to the people the full benefit of the Con-
stitution, and for aiding his Majesty's paternal solicitude In
promoting concord and onion Iti Ireland."
Mr. GOULBURN assured the twine, that he never
rose to address it with feelings of stronger anxiety than
those he felt on entering on the subject under discussion.
This anxiety was foundod on no idea of personal consi-
deration to himself, nor on any difficulty he hail in ex-
pressing his opinions, bet on al apprehensioa that a sub.
ject which excited so much attention in Ireland, and
which hail been to mach misrepresented for the purpose
of intlaminz passions already so agitated—an evil which
ever,- good man in and out of Parliament would-be anx-
ious to remove—v.o4bl he mixed up with the one whim,
was an ler discussion. lie therefore thought the hon.
and learned gent would have yielded to the suggestion
of his hon. and learned Friend, and postponed his Imo-
lion till the whole subject was fairly before Parliament.
He trusted. however, that the fears he entertained upon
this subject were unfounded ; and here he could not h .11p
paying a tribure to the lion, and learned Gentleman for
Ivoitling any allusion which could prejudice that ques-
tion, and he hoped that all who followed in the debate
could he guided by the same forling, and not bring she
conduct of the inch Government into the question et
present. In much that had fallen from the bun. and
learned gent. he had no hesitation in swing that he con-
• tarred is a more or less degree. He lied no hesitation
in saying, that such societies were great inconveni.

enci, and viers calculat'd to create suspicion sosone the

members xif those societies. and hear-butlin4-s young':
those who were not members. If in ordinary smiety
a principle of exclusion ton arils any particular east
was to be a.l.tph•d, the excluded nould rrta•d the•
exclusiat:is•s with te•lings of jealousy and hatred
while ti.e la ter would link upon tile twiner with
contempt and dis•eirard. If •uch feelings were en•!en
dere.' by the principle of exclusion in ordinary society.
how touch stronget must they be in politic ii societies
acting upon the same prinripl and connected by secret
obligations. All concurred in admitting tha: the fedings
produced by exclusion from any society were more or less
violent as the principle of exclusion was valued. It was,
therefore, that exclusion on account of relizions opinions
produced the most violent feelings, beraus•! r •lit;ion
was that pr,nripla nhich all men most valued.—lle ad-
mitted ti itu the honourable member the evils of any so-
ciety formed on a principle of exclusion, when its object
was of a secret nature. Hat in making this admission, he
meant to apply it rather to the in .lion th in to the speech
of the hon. member—for the house would see that the

ino:inn extended gereralle to ail secret societies, whereas
the speech confined itsedt solely to the Orange Society in
It-elan I. But while he (Mr. Hon Nun) felt tile danger
that might rr,ult from secret associations, he was still
most anxious to diary a I' ne of 6N:lm t on between the
danger to be apprehended fr utu t his partial; sr Society and
other secret societies of an opposite tendency, He was
qui.e sure that the Ho•t. Member 'alit agree stith him.
Oat there was a gre.tt distinction to he drawn between
secret societies in (rbin". The Orange Institution was
aftogetlier distinct from s icieries I.ra:rid f.” the express
porpoao of subvertinz the tioverntuen%—(llear, hear.)
f Isere were various societies in Ir. land, so lie formed tor

a good, and many more for a bed purpose. Some oi
them were bound by an malt to support the law, and
maintain the tranquillity and peece of the errantry. He
was therefore anions the 'mese should ,ee how
different xere the s that regulated different as-
sociations. He cmild cot f is:tett that the principles of
the Orange Institution were lia'ale to grave objections ;
yet be could not also forget that the Members of it hid
always Shown themselves reedy to come forward ieixdee
fence of the country. Ile could not ferret that in times
of hazard and difficulty, the p •1,11-is who ouwenrolled
themselves as members of Orange Lodges had lent their
prompt aid to Government and upheld the Constitution.
For having done so, they deserved an I bail receive tile
approbation of floret nment Anil of the coentry. Thoiigh
they might disepprove of seine things is the Orange In-
stitutions, yet they ought not to uvetlo tk time previous
good conduct of its inenihr re, nor eoutotin I them with
persons from whom they were every Nay distinct. lie
tray Om aware that the good ch trader of a person who
transgressed the law affurded no argument imbis de-
fence; and if any Orangeman was guilty of en act
which the law did not sanction, be (Mr. O) would be •
the I ist person to sten I up jut that Iroise and require
an exemption in his favour. He coil( I wish that the
honourable member had forborne to revert to the eariy
periods, when outrazes were committed in Ireland.
The hon. member haul, hoe ever, reverted to these in re-
ference to the Orange Asrociation, but he (Mr. (i.) Wami'l
sure it would he better for Pa lieniert not to go back t.
them. The general complaint in Ir land a as, that there
remained on the mind, of the different classes in that
country, too strong en impression of party transar-
tiene.lie wished that any thing likely to niake it stronger
shuntl he avoided. There might have been: in those
tranmections •h of cruelty to condemn, and much of
severity, to regret, but the detail of either could not be in
the slightest degree profitable at this time, w It:le, on the
contrery,it might do serious Hey. 'llse hon. Member ith
recounting the outrazes committed at one titne in the
county of Armagli,reail the disclaimer of certain persons
sto their }caving any participation in them. Sorely.
there was no man who he,.r.l that disclaimer lint roust•
say, that the body of Yee:mance who hal ma le it were
every way entitled to approbaiion. The lion. Member had
still, that a strong feeling had been manifested in Eng.
lend against the establishment cf an Orange Institution
here, and lie called upon a Right Hon. Friend of his tit
adop: the scums line ut conduct with respect to le. land,as
he had done with respect to this country upon a recent oc-
casion. He (Mr. (1.) agreed entirely in the propriety of
the course which his Right lion. Friend lia,l pursued at
that time, and he was convinced that to persevere is such
a course was the hest mode of counteracting the evils
complained of. The lion. Member had said, that Orange
Societies were kept up in Ireland from party feeling, but
he had not told the house how party feeling was to be
allayed; lie had only Eine on descanting on the consti-
tution of the Soeiettes themselves. lie could nut by any
means agree in the proposed address to the Throne ; for
there was no man so inexperienced in Parliamentary
usage but must see that it implied unwillingness en the
part of the Irish Government to du tittle duty.—(llrar,
hear.) Addresses of such a nature had never been agreed
to, unless where there was an obvious reluctance on the
pert of the officers of the Crown to carry the laws into
effect. But he would defy any man to say that 'lmre was
any reluctance on the part of the olileers of the Crown in
Ireland to enforce the laws with impartiality, if the
Hun. Member could cast any imputation on the Irish Go-
vernment fur having protected Orangemen, or if he could
show that any Cetholic was subject to penalties from
which Orangemen were exempted, then lie (Mr. G.)
would say that there would be grounds for Parliamentary
interference. But in the absence of such grounds, and in
the absence of all suspicion of partiality, he could never
giSe his assent to a proposition which conveyed censure
along with hear.) He would say that the
pr. sent Government of Ireland led, from the very first
moment, viewed secret societies with the greatest jea-
limy and apprehension One of the first acts of the
officers of the Crown in Ireland was to offer a de-
termined opposition to societies bound together for
the purpose of subverting the Government. The
Habeas Corpus Act was in consequence suspended;
and though it had not been deemed expedient to renew
the suspension after the limited period had expired, yet
the authenticated proofs of the existence of such Societies
still in the countryonstifi.d the Irish Government in call-
ing Ler Parliamentary interference. Utile hon. member,
before lie brought forward this motion, had allowed him
(Mr. 6.) time, lie wouhl have submiled to the house a
measure which the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland had in c,m-
tempi ition for the suppression of Secret Societies. One
of its objects was to assimilate the law in Ireland to that
which existed in this country in 1799. With respect to
Societies in correspondence wi h a foreign enemy, there
was, however, a 010(1We:ion to be made In it; fur lie by
no means would say that there wereattny in Ireland any
Societies that were in Correspondence oil' foreigner,.
In the month of November lest.,it was foul' I upon the
trial of some persons who belonged to treasunaide a.e..-
cea.ions, that country could not possible he secured unless
stronger powers were placed in 'Mir hands of the Govern-
ment. Accordingly Lute Lord Lieutenant called for, and
obtained them Taoligh. as lie had already observed,
the Orange institution IV,B distinct from the other., yet
as ell Secret Societies were had in principle, Government
did not intend to exempt any particular association from
the operatiott of the proposed lax.--(Lood cheers.) Such
being the view of the Government upon this suliject, he
hoped it would be seen that they had not been inatten-
tive to their duty, and that the hciuse would not concur
in the expediency of the present motion. lie should
therefore move the previous question by way of amend.
went. lie considered that the motion could do no good,
while it implied blame on the part of the Government of
Ireland, and that though it was calcnlated upoh as a
btnefit, its effects were likely to be mischrintous.
S.; J. NEWPORT said, That if he con idrred the

Address as intended to convey &censure upon the Irisll
Gnverimient, he would not support. it. It was wills •
Erect pleasure that he heard—he was sure that house—
shattis hon. and learned friend (Mr. Abercrotaby) would
hear %jib feelings of great satisfaction Hata wan the in-.
tension of -the Irish tiovernruent to recommend to that
house to extend the Att of 1799 to Ireland. That was .
the way to proceed ; it wasidle to draw distinctions be•
t.veen secret societies; to say this society has been insti-
tuted for good purposes—that for bad; it was idle to
duke secret societies [hear, he.ir, heart]. They must sll
embarrass the Government,and endanger public tranquil-
ty.—elt was the mischief and the curse of Ireland, that
for centuries she was governed by means of division ; it
was the duty, it was the policy of the Legislature, to ab-
jure that-course. He hailed the deviation from that prac-
itce—tle hoped that the spirit of conciliation would be
fostered; which wouli remove from Ireland the source
of her weakness, of her distractions, and disgrace.
With this view he hoped that all secret Societies would

be put down.
Mr. DAWSON said that in the sentiments that had
fallen from his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. (Jou'burn) he
agreed. The Orange Societies, the Protestants of Ire-
land, iwere subject to much misrepresentation. The
Honourable Gentleman had alluded to the early perio
of the Association—that Association originated in titres
of great confusion. In 1793 the country was torn by
the ravages of contending factions, and the Protestants,
alarmed at the danger, entered line an association for
their individual defence ; they attached themselves to
the principles of the Constitution as established in 1106.
by the Prince of Otange. Hence the origin of thee
name. As their numbers increased, their loyalty in-
creased also, and checked the audacity of the seditious
societies. There could be thus far no objection to the
societies. Bet when they became thus numeroes, soma •
of the gentlemen who composed them conceived the idea -
of methodizing them, by establishing rules and regela- •
lion:. sod secret signals, by which they might be know
to o.te another, and prevent the intrusion of improper
.persons. To this part alone he objected (hear); secret
oaths and obligations were in violation, not only of the •
.spirit but of the letter of the law ; and however patrioi
the spirit might he which dicated such regulations,
they might he turned to the worst purposes. The hoe.
and learned mover trould therefore have his approbetion
in any measure to present altogether secret oath.. (Lease,
hear.) But was that the sole object of the honourable .
and learned mover ? Did he not foresee how his motion
would be received in Ireland, that it would be receive i •
by the Orangemen es an imputation on their Socie-
ties (hear, hear, from the Opposition), that it would be
considere I by the Protestants as a daringattack upon their
opinions. Secret societies were to be condemned,. lint
there e as a great distinction to he observed between loy-
alty and dielevalty. With the single exception of their
laCcrelioathei lie agreed with the men who were des:gna- -
'ted as Irishmen, and he challenged anyone to find in atiy
of their proceedings a disposition to disloyalty and rian.
The hon. gent. then proceeded at considerable length to
vindicate the character of Orangemen by reference ter .
the various scenes in which they had borne a part from
the 'ear linn; but now said the Catholics magnifir t
every accidental disturbance in which the Orangern vs
were imolicateil in:o a preconcerted plan for the mere-
throw of the Constitution, and they were astonieheit that
the Protestaots were net conciliated. Conciliation had
been making rapid strides; butt party spirit now burned
ssith a ti rcer flame than ever, and it would .continue •o
blaze, if motions were brought forward, which compel-
led Gentlemen, in poke in themselves and to those whom
they r. commended. to bring forward facts which could
not fail to create collision.
Mr:MAURICE FITZGERALD said there were some .
stateitieh:s in the speech of his hnn. friend (Mr. Dawson), •
which required to be ceetrailicted. • He should not s•-..)
into the obscure origin of the Orange Associations, 1.-. et •
that they seining out of the disaffection of the Catlini's.
roe theion of Ireland, Li' denied. The Directors of the' •
Uninel It isluiwn hint given evidence, that there was net •
a single Bathetic into that body down to the
winter of l79'd (heir, hear!). His honourable friend
had told them that the Orange Associations originated
in 171.ra, and they had, in point of fact, almost driven the.
Catholics fso:n the County of Armagh, before a single
Catholic had been enrolled among the United Irishmen
(hear, hear:). His hun. friend had said, however, why
did not the lion. and learnel mover direct his observa-
tions against other secret societies, as well as agairen.
the Orangemen ? His hon. friend bad himself stated this
reason—they were already under prosecution (hear,
hear!). His right lion. and learned friend (Mr.
Plunkett) was now hanging and transporting them (a
laugh). lint the Orange Societies were too strong, if
not for Parliament, for the existing law and the present
Government of Ireland (hear). The motion was directed
against the Orange associations, not that theirobjects were
treasonable, but that, perhaps with loyal intentions, they
called forth counter associations, inflamed terrors, excited •
passions,and kept I reland in continual age ation and alarm.
The hon. member bad stated that th • Rebellion bad b-titt
put down by Orangemen; and that they were the only
loyal subject.. How this assertion could be supported
lie did now lanow. The Rebellion, put down in ljnet.
was put down by all na atties—by King's tioops—by the
veemanry, and the militia, amonntiner to 25,000 men, a
great part of whom were Catholics. It was his tniefor-
Gine to be somewhat older than the hon. member, and
he recollected all these things. lie had on that occasion
served with Catholics—been surrounded with Catholic's,
and had witnessed many of their deedsiof bravery—.
(hear.) His Majesty ha I recognized their zeal in this
cause, and ex preesed his gratitude f tr. their exertions, and
now the boa c eras told that Rebellion teas down exch.,-
sienly by Orangemen (hear.) He adverted to this to
show to the house in what manner this prejudice actu-
ated even generous and enlithtened minds; and what
then might they expect would be the feelings of the igl1+1•
rant and bigotted, of those who came daily into contact
wilt the Catholics who were stiginatise.l as disloyal: •
Let the house but turn their view to the two countries,
and they would observe a strong con rest between Ire-
land and Enniand. Whatever disputes might prevail
here, however, the people might be split into parties,
whenever any great qitesiion came before them for deci-
sion,'Whonever an important event excited general inte-
rest, a spirit of unanimity was observed which, was truly
national. In Irelanil, however, every thing resolvel
itself into factions, an 1 his motive in supporting the pre-
sent motion seas to allay and cheek animosities. 'Pie
Irish are a eehement people, and •if a notion prevails
that you countenance I action before Ling they with break
out in some serious calamity. The lion. Member then
proceeded to v•tt licate the conduct of the present Lord
Lieutenant, and to eel •g:ze the character of Lord Corn:
wallis; for their en•leavours to put down the factioue,-•
not cog par;ieularle tile pieties of the present day in
Dublin, and concluded %aim saying, that lie was disposed.
to support the motion of his learned friend ; but lie did
not wish hint to push the measure, if a pledge were
given oil the part of Gonemineitt that a measure shoelai
be Sehmitted to the house for extending the provisithis
of the 49th of the late Ring to Ireland. (The honout-
able member sat down amidst considerable cheering.) a•
Mr. Secretary . atter vindicating himself from
the suspicion of partiality on the question before the
house, said, that in discussing it iir'sliould refer to unite
general 'and 'constitutional principles than the other
Members had referred to. The object of the motion was
in putedown party attimosities and do 'sweet with imps,-
per associations. The Hon. tilentletnan says taxi vow,
_fleet Ise wants to mu down the Orange Snctetiel,_ last he
wants to do this, by known loos, hy the aseradacti of
W.tiat alone' tin ithretrekise. • but. it ia hatbSible in

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any country in which freedom exists, to banish all party'
spirit, to pot down all associations of men for political
objects. Before we declare we will put down an associ-
a ion; we mum thi hit of the consequences of success: And
in thilmaseshooll we not vi olate general p ri nci ples, the pre-
servation of which is nermssry to the existence of society?
It was not possible, nor to he wished, for the Govern-
ment of a free country to interfere on all occasions with
hodiis, indeed, nnder its orders—under its controul ;
sorb' es yeomanry aad others, the Government could and
'lid interfere, to prevent any display of strongparty feel-
int.' Thome% he could never forget the services former-
ly rimierid by these Orangemen, not against Roman
Carhelics, but aer.inst the progress of French principles
when they rallied round the standard of British connec-
'i,til yet he was sot disposed to countenance proceed-
of which he sincerely disapproved, nor to deny that
affiliated tincietiesi and associations bound by secret oaths
werelo Le regarded as objeits of suspicion. The time
had been, when the proceedings of such associations, al-
ways excepting the secret oaths, had been nseful ; but he
%mimeo* diaposed to go much further than any existing
law in discountenancing them. If he were an Irish gen-
tleman, resisting in Ireland, he should feel it his duty
t) endeavour, by mild remonstrance, to induoi the local
authorities to desist from. proceedings which were calm
dated to excite irritation. lie would call upon them to do
en from more generons motives thaw tlsout of policy.—
Tuaigh these prom:esions and commemorations could not
be suppressed by law, he would advise them to suppress
them, rather then sound and irritate the feelings of a
large class of their countrymen. On the other hand he
would advise the Roman Catholics not to be extreme in
marking shat might be done amiss, nor too prone to
construe every act of political exultation, into an insult
directed against themselves. The Right Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last (Mr. Fitzgerald) had stated, that his hon.
sndlearned friend would be ready to withdraw his moo-
tioo, provided a pledge were given by the Government
that a measure would be introduced for the assimilation
of the English and Irish law. In the month of Nov.
last, after the minis in Dublin, the Lord Lieutenant had
recommended the assimilation of the Irish and English
1 um with a view to the suppression of Secret Associatmons.
It was quite impossible then to accept the withdrawing
of the hon. and yarned gentleman's mmion on these
terms, since an eh-ration of the law had been already
monim-niled by the head of the Executive Govern-
ment in Ireland. After arguing tbus in various points of
view, tbr Right lion, Secretary paid under such circum-
stances, if the Honourable and Learned Member should
not consent to wilidraw his motion, he trussed the house
would concur with him in giving it a di•ect negative.
There was one observadon which it might not be uniin•
prtant to make with regard to bis (Mr. Peers) peewits'
canduct and poicy, when he was a Member of the Irish
Government. lie begged to state most explicitly, that
he had entirely concurred in, and approved of, the rues-
sure for preventing the dressing of the Statute of King
William on the 4th of Novembtr. With this declaration
be should close the observations which be had to offer to
Etc house ; and he once more called upon the house to
give a negative tc the motion, if the honourable and
learned gentleman should not consent to withdraw it.
Mr. GRATTAN spoke shortly in favour of the
memo.
Mr. CANNING said he could assure the house that
no Government could be more inclined to administer the
-effaivsof Ireland with an equal hand, or more united in
the determination to support that Government in Ireland,
under :whose inflnence the principle had been already ad-
vanced. His right honourable friend (Mr. Peel) had
said that the honourable mover could not receive any
essolpearation for the withdrawing of his motion, as the
measure to which it referred was actually determined on
1 the Government htfore the animosities so much to be
lamented bad made their appearance. He thought that
even row the house, might see symptoms of their abate-
inesit ; be hoped that this night's discussion would Neill-
tate their final extinction. But thougn he email not
offer the honourable mover the coinpens tion alluded to
by his Right Honourable Friend, Gyre was another com-
pensatMo of no small importance which lie thought he
-might venture to promise him. There was a 'Mice on
the Journals re pectiug Papers that reterred to a military
ontrage of the 6•li November. If the honourable and
learned gestleumn would consent to withdraw his mo-
tion, be trusted that it would not be considered too
much to ask of another Honourable Gentleman to re-
turn the saute compliment by withdrawing his motion
also [a laugh]. Thus, instead of a night of conflict as
was expected, they would conclude a utght of concilia-
ti man i harmony.
Mr. ABERCROMBY, in reply. observed, that if the
Right Honourable Gentleman expected such a discussion as
he had described. It was in the power of Ministers to have
prevented it, by communicating whs. they had now stated
:.eforc the Mscussion 'same on. Every object that he had in
view wrieM be eifeetuelly attained by the course which Do-
seenment had stated their intention of adopting. Ile felt
biassed' Justified• however, to making the motion under
the circumstances, and especially es he was persuaded that
the discesslon would afford greet satisfaction to a numerous
part of the population of Ireland. hie trusted, that after
the explanation which had been given, the house would
n it object to his withdrawing of his motion, as it would
be inconsistent to meet it with a negative, after what
had passed on the subject.
Mr. CANNING explained.
The um ion oats then withdrawn, after which the
other orders of the day mere disposed of, and the house
adjourned at half past 11.
PRICE OF STOOLS THI
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THUR.SDAY EVENINC, MARCH 6, 1823.

PARLIAMENTARY COMMENTARY.
he rue LORDS there were some matters of form,
much too formal for us to bestow any time upon.
Jra Tat COMMONS.—We have observed brfore that
the botincsa of Parliament has not yet begun. In the
ut,an time the Jesuits and the Orange-men occupy a
goad deal of the attention of the house. Sir Thomas
Isethbridge prevented last night a petition from a Mr.
Porker, one of the adventurers to the Cape of Good
Hope, who ascribed his failure and misfortunes in the
enterprise to a Jesuit Lieuten'ant-Colonel, who was the
Celonian Secretary, and who was defended by Mr. Wil-
utetr r. Parker, in his petition, sated the existencc of
Jesuit establishments in Ireland, and traced them from
Stoney-hurst in Lancashire. The debate upon this sub-
ject was very warm. The Jesuits got rather roughly
handled; bat they hada good many friends who did not
mesple to praise them rather than apologize for them.—
This' , however, appears to have been nothing more than
a mete skirmish preliminary to the great battle which
31 probably;to be foughtbrand-bye between the Orange-
ass sad the Catholics, in which the Orangemen will