The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-01-21 00:00:00

HIS MAJESTY'S HOUSEHOLD.

The MU for the Regulation of his Majesty's
Household and the Administration of his Majesty's
Personal Property, was read a first time.
Mr. TIERNEY observed, that from an examina-
tion of the estimateof the Civil List, framed in 1804,
and the accounts of the disbursements for the seven
following years, certain productions appeared to him
to be necessary, before he could consent to give his
vote for the second reading of the Bill. It was im-
possible to understand from the papers which had
been already produced, what arrangement it was ne-
cessary to make, or whether the sums which they
should grant might exceed or fall short of what the
occasion demanded. From these papers it appeared
'that the expenditure of the Mtn List exceeded the
revenue by upwards of 120,0001. annually—so that
it was not fair to state the Civil List at 907,0001. per
year, when the real sum expended was greater by
120,0001. Whether this additional expeuce was
really necessary, it was impossible to say, without
the production of more documents ; for all that could
be learned from those already published, was the ac-
tual excess, and the particular classes on which that
excess had arisen. But this was not enough to ena-
ble them to act in the manner which they were called
on to do, because it did not allow them to see whe-
ther the excess was justifiable, or could admit of re-
' duction • and he should wish to have a Committee
appointed for the purpose of inquiring into the ac-
tual state of the Civil List. This was certainly the
first time that an addition had been demanded to the
Civil List, without the appointment of a Committee
to inquire into the subject, and without the produc-
tion of more papers than had been thought fit to be
laid before them on the present occasion ; but whe-
ther or not the course he recommended was or was
not justified by precedent, he was certain that it was
at all events the most rational and convenient. In
what he was about to move for, he professed he was
actuated by.no wish to embarrass or retard Ministry
in carrying this business through the House, but be-
fore the second reading of the Bill took place, he
could wish that the few papers be was to move for
before sitting down, should be some time before the
House, that they might come to the discussion with
every requisite information. To satisfy the House
that these additional papers were necessary materials
for the consideration of the present question, it was
only necessary to state to them that an estimate of
the charges on the Civil List was drawn up in 1804,
and from 1801 downwards, the expenditure of each
year greatly exceeded the sum of that estimate; and
that it was almost impassible that a more mature ar-
rangement could take place than that of the Civil
List in 1804. He should proceed, therefore, to state
to the House the principal articles on which be wish-
ed to have information. The first was an account of
the bills paid each year in the department of the
Lord Steward. In the estimateof 1804, 75,0001.
annually had been thought sufficient to ineetail these
bills; and yet, in the very next year, 1805, they
would find that they amounted to no less a sum than
129,0001. He did not say that this sum was too
much, but ha certainly thought that it required ex-
planation. In another year the expenditure in this
department amounted to 107,0001. and in the last
year it amounted to 115,0001. While he did not wish
to express any opinion on this subject at present, he
thought it was but fair to state that reports had gone
abroad of considerable abases existing in that de-
partmeut, and that these reports had come from a
quarter which would not allow him to entertain any
jealousy of their being totally without foundation.
He implored the House, therefore, not to proceed
farther, in this business till they had examined into
the particulars of this expenditure. It was certain-
ly singular enough that the excess took place at the
very moment when Mr. Pitt said that 750004 would
he sufficient. He hoped that the Right Honourable
Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Fschequer) would
not object to the giving this detailed account. The

,

• .

.i'. .5. . -

next account he wished for was that of the tiat!,...
men's bills in the department of the Lord Chamber-
lain. The extraordinary way in which affairs bad
been conducted in that department would sufficiently
appear when the particulars of this department of the
Civil List were laid before the House. He would
again implore the House to examine into this subject,
to look into Mr. Pitt's estimate and the estimates of
all the preceding Administrations. Mr. 1 itt ctn.
oeived that 65,0001. would be amply sutficientfor the
payment of all the tradesmen's bills in this depart-
ment, on the 6th July, 1803; and yet it appears
that the increase here is even greater than is that of
the Lord Steward; for on the sth July, 1806, this
estimated sum stun more than doubled, the Bills at
that time being to .no den en amoest than 133,8001.
the next year the espeediturewot up to 138,0001.
in scoot* paw it was
.124t1401. Oh& theik.44lllli to
05,0001. On the lace of the documents new before
the House, there was nothing to satisfy them re-
spectinl the esuse of this rise and fall. In this year
it rose to 149,0001. and fell in the following to
113,0001.; and in a subsequent year to 101,0001.
—ln all this there was certainly an appear-
ance of great imprudence. He did not conceive
that the Lord Chamberlain was a person who had
merely the direction of that department without being
obliged to took into its details, and to see that the
expence should arise properly from the article's fall-
ing under it. He understood that the sums paid out
here were priucipally for bills connected with fur-
niture, a species of expence which might he increased
without end. The House were surely bound to sa-
tisfy themselves on so important a subject as this, in
order, if the expences were unwarrantable, that they
might not occur again, and that, in making a per-
manent arrangement, they might not be considered
as likely so to recur. In ahy motion which it. was
possible for him to make on this subject, he slieuld
find it difficult so to express himself as to be able to
fall upon precisely what was wanted for the elucida-
tion of the business, without the assistance of the
Right Honourable Gentleman, who, seeing the in-
tended object, would be much better enabled to
judge than he could be supposed to do, what would
exactly answer the purpose. With respect to the
department of the Master of the Horse, the manage.
ment of which he understood was conducted by one
of the Equerries, he would say ne.hing at present, as
it appeared to him to be very economical, and every
thing that it ought to be. The next article on which
he could %lib for explanation, was one as to which,
he was afraid, the Right Honourable Gentleman
would not be prepared to satisfy him, he meant the
Special Semi and Royal Bounty. This, in 1804, was
estimated at• 10,0001.; the next year it amounted to
14,0001. • and, after that, it rose to the astonishing
amount of 50,0001. What could this enormous in-
crease be owing to ? The only other article on which
he should wish for information, was that of the Ex-
traordinary Disbursements of Foreign Ambassadors,
Presents to them, &c. The whole of the ordinary
expence of For ign Ambassadors, in 1804, was
112,0001.; but this branch of expenditure had been
ntinually diminishing since that period. In 1808
it amounted to 5910001. in a following year to
67,0001. and it now stood at 77,0001. and this reduc-
tion was occasioned by the diminished number of
Ambassadors, arising from the particular situation of
the Continent fir some time past. But what was
certainly singular enough, was, that while the num-
ber of Ambassadors was so much reduced, the extra.
ordinary disbursements which, in 1804, were esti-
mated at ten thousand pounds, should have risen to
50,0001. afterwards to 80,0001. and now actually
stood at 53,0001. How was this to be accounted
for ? This sum could not certainly be secret service
money; for there was a large sum voted by Parlia-
ment every year for that purpose. The presents to
Foreign Ministers, which were also estimated at
10,0001. in 1804, amounted now to 33,0001. Sure-
ly it was necessary this should also be explained.—
He should move, therefore, Ist. For an Account
shewing the Bills paid to Tradesmen in the depart-
ment of the Civil List, under the direction of the
Lord Steward, specifying the heads under which
each of the Bills ought to be classed, from the sth of
July, 1804, to sth July, 1811.-2 d. For a similar
account of the Bills paid to Tradesmen, in the de-
partment of the Lord Chamberlain, and the service
to which they were applicable when the amount of
these Bills exceeded the sum of 2001, If that amount
appeare4 too low to the Right Honourable Gentle-
man opposite, he had no objection to raising it to
such a suns as might be found more convenient.-3d.
For an Account of the Charges of Foreign Minis-
ters, Sums allowed them for Equipage, &c. and Pre-
sents made to them for the same petiod.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, as it was his wish that the Bill should be com-
mitted on Friday, it was desirable that the second
reading might be as near to the going through &Com-
mittee as possible ; and for that purpose he moved
that the second reading should be on Thursday. lie
had not the smallest objection to communicate to the
House whatever information might be judged requi-
site; and adverting to the papers specified by the
Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney), he could see
no objection to the production of them; but ha
hoped that that Gentleman would agree to raise the
sums en which he wished much information in the de-
partment under the Lord Chamberlain to 5001. be-
cause be was himself satisfied that the excess had
,arisen on sums of a much larger description, though
if it should be found that this was not sufficient, more
detailed information would be afforded. He was not
prepared to account for the excess of the subsequent
years to the estimate, and particularly of the year
immediately succeeding ; but be thought that k might
partly beaccounted for from en Impossibility of w.f.
deuly reducing, after knowing the deterinioation, a

F.'.

te-, 7.4

9 :

• , r '^~+~^

•~.<