The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-05-11 00:00:00

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1101:SE OF LORDS.—Ttivaseav, Mal- 10,
The Earl of LAUDERDALE regalia a Pf..
front 'the Merchants' Company of Leith, Arming spas
the Timber Duties Bill might not pass into a lama—
Road and laid on the table.
The Noble Lord then seeing a Noble esti ileitis
place, lot/aired when it was his intention lb movethe
second reading of the Timber Duties Bill? •
.Fart BATHURST took this opportunity of giving
notice, that to-morrow se'uaigbt be should propose the
second reading of that Bill, and of moving that their
Lordships be summoned
WFOfor that di) Agreed to.
NEUNDLAN.
The Earl of DARNLEY recalled to their Lotd-
ships' mind the Petition which had lately been • lite-
sented from Newfoundland by a Noble Friend of his
(Lord Holland,) stating a most atrocious case, in
%%Mar no redress had been obtained. He was anxious
to obtain some assurance from his Majesty's Govern-
went that steps should be taken to afford such redress
as the case required.
Earl BATHURST entered into an explanation,
which, from the low tone in which his Lordsdip spike.
Ivo almost entirely inaudible below the Bar. All
Oat was understood was that considering corporal
runishmeut liable to abuse, his Lordship bad sent di-
rections to that Colony two months ago, when he
heard of the ease mentioned in the Petition, to have
the practice discontinued ; and that the Commanding
clificer to whom blame had been attached, was a man
of such humanity, that he had twice volunteer-
ed, in the midst of wiuter, to go into the interior
of the country to relieve the natives who had
been driven back into the wood• by the settlement
f Ilbropeans on the coast. With respect to the
Goverment of the Island, it was so far improved,
that where as it svgs formerly the practice for the Go-
vernor to repair to the colony in May, and return
home in October, he now remained the whole year at
his post.
After a few words of explanation from the Earl of
DARNLEY, the conversation dropped.
ORAMPOLIND.
The Earl of CARNAILVON rose to move the
second reading of the Oramponnil Disfranehisimient
Sill. Although he knew that some of their Lord-,
ships disapproved of certain provision, and others of
the whole principle of the Bill, yet he should not ad-
dress the Douse at any length, because he thought•
that by already passing three Bills of this nature, and
proceeding Stith the present as far as they bad dose,
their Lordshipstreined to hareacknowledged that they
had pee into the evitlesce for the purpose of being
ruled by it. It would therefore be only necessary to
consider whether the evidence was sulficieut to justify
the measure proposes!, anti whether that measure was not
calculated to answer the end la view. lie would also re-
mind their Lordships, that by voting for the second read-
ing, they would only admit the principle that some
change ought to take place in the present state of the
elective franchise at Grampound ; and that such vote
would not prevent any Noble Lord, in the further pro-
cress of the Bill, from introducing such amendment
as might reconcile the measure to his feelings. lie
then entered into a detailed examination of the evi-
dence adduced in support of the measure, and contend-
ed that it completely established the existence
of a permanent system of gross corruption at
tiraropouttd. The Bill on their Lordships table
penvitled, he conceived, the most .ffectual mode
far removing the evil. It was the fourth re-
medial Bill of this description, and he hoped would be
the forerunner of many others, to extinguish that mi-
serable system of iniquity and corruption, bottomed on
vice, and supported by perjury. In other Bills, how-
eves, the only remedy used had been to throw the Bo-
rough open to the Hundred. In the present case it
was for the !louse to consider whether tisose limi s
should not be passed. It was well known that Bo-
roughs a orded the mercantile and commercial inter-
ests the chief means of being represented in Parlia-
ment. To throw Boroughs open to the klundrids.
would be to render their representation entirely local,
and to &price those interests of the facilities which
they now posses-ed. Besides, the hundred in which
Gratoponutl was situated already contained five Bo-
ronglot. This he did not mean to say was a subject
ttsr leforto ; for if there were many Boroughs in Corn-
Aral t, it was not Cornwall that supplied their Members. It
wasthere,on thecortrary,that Manchester and Birming-
ham erre represented. The present Bill proposed to dis-
franchise Grampound altogether, and he could not admit
the argument, that because a few individuals might be
in-spew, the x uilty should not be puaished. lie con-
sidered the right of election, not as an individual, but
as a corporate right, and the question was now, wise-1
ther it could be trusted any longer to the Bo °ugh of
Uramponntl ? In morality, justice, and religion, he
contended, it could no longer be entrusted ta that
liorongh. To those who felt terrified at the idea of
altering the Constitution, he would my, that not an
.Ist was passed by Parliament without effecting some
change in that Constitution. And when all was
changing around, why should one part of oar institu-
tions alone remain unchangeable?. lie was not one of
those who wished to innovate on nothing but hopes:
neither was he one of those who feared to Lech the
Constitution, lest the whole should framable into ruins.
lie. wished to see direct represeotation extended to a
few of our commercial towns, and those boroughs, which
bad abused their elective franchise, made use of to give
ilia others. Why Leeds had been selected in prefer-
ence to Manchester and Birmingham might cushy be
explained by certsiu transactions which had taken
place in those towns. and which he hoped would not
again occur. Leeds aho had a Mayor, and was an old
114aromelt. 1k shoeld therefore prefer acquiescing to
the provisions proposed by the Commons, though if
the sense of their Lordships was foe making some al-
teration. be shesid eat oppose it, but should still think
that mut hod been gained by the acknowledgment of
the ptindple that the elective franchise when abused
might be transferred to another place. The Sable
Bart concluded by moving that the Bill be read a
sseuted time; _ _

'fbe LORD CILIS,XCELLOIL ilk' not mean at pre-
sent to eider into flee ninita of doe SU. ite wisheit
anti set faßbill. that as be saw that the osastua west
Neely to aniatience some altetatioas in the Cantatin
tee, he shoeisi not diviale the Maus* at presoak, hot
greed/ SAX Silt Cold** in dee Bill. foe do pupas* et
retervina 41 Manselt the tight of appoint the misener
;It a (mitt woo.

iiilebetts easeetions of thwiejuities -
=scam* it tended to secure ismisannity
OfShe liked ol that which it was lateuded to pentslti
Wet when parolees who bad seteikenestlr is in *Ws
ties eheuld fled that for giving eatistitee to bring the
lowilty to pursiebtent, they worst* be deprived of their
an rights, they would no longer be disposed to yield
.that assistance. without which guilt could not be
prayed. and ceerupdon might be carried oh to any O.
tent without a check. The principle of the isessnile
was inconsistent with the British Constitution, nod
iM
direct %isolation of Negro Charts itself. He then ds-.
tended that no corruption whatever had been charged
against thirtrtwo of the Orampouad electors; their
the innocent sibestld aft be panished for the guilty,
and that the part .f the Bill which related to the dive
franchisement of Orampound ought .not to pass.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL wished briefly to State
the grounds on which he should vote for the second
reading of the Bill. Whether his opinion were right
or wrong, it was one which he had long entertained.
For though in the second Session in which be had sat
in the other House he had opposed the general plan
of reform brought forward, yet he had supported a
Bill for removing the elective franchise from Saltash.
He considered the right of election as a public trust,
granted, not for the benefit of the individual, but for
the public good. He admitted at the same time that
it was attended with great advantages to the indivi•
duals by whom it was enjoyed. and that was the me
son why be should never vote fur the disfranchisement,
of any place on grounds of expediency alone. But VI
a case of abuse were proved on the part of those whom'
it was intended to disfranchise, then he could have
no hesitation in airing his vote. The elective fran-
chise had no analogy to the right of property, though
it had some to the rights of their Lordships as Peers,
because they rat in that House, not fur their own
benefit, but for that of the public, and might be de-
prived of those rights if they were abused. The
same principle might be applied to a Borough.
If it had abused its trust by gross corruption, Parlia-
ment was authorised to deprive it of the exercise of
its rights hereafter. The only difference was, that in
one case the deprivation would apply to an individual
alone, and iu the case of the Borough to the whole ;
the act of a corporate body being for good or bad,
the act of the whole. If the question were, whether
a case of abuse had been made ou!, on that ground
alone he should vote for the second reading of the
Bill. For if ever a case of general and systematic
corruption had been proved against any borough, it
was against the Borough of tirampound. With re-
gard to the Borough of Barnstaple, it was his (Lord
Liverpool's) conscientious opinion that a case had not
been made out against that Borough; at least that
that species of corruption had nut been proved which
would warrant an act of disfranchisement. The usual
.course in cases of this nature had been, not to transfer
the right of vo ing. hut to attempt to reform the de-
linquent borough by giving the elective franchise to
the neighbouring hundreds. 1 hat species of remedy
could not, however, be applied to the case of Gram-
ron's!, without the hazard of incurring considerable
Inconvenience. The number of Cornish boroughs
was an evil in theory, but it was fonnd in practical
that there was not a greater number of Cornish Mein.
hers than of any other class of the community. The
consequence of transferring the right of voting
I.
the hundreds of Cornwall would be, to make that an
evil in practice which was not now only an evil in
theory. Ile should prefer giving two additional
Members to the county of York; but if the House
were not disposed to agree to that suggestion, be
would throw out for the consideration of the lloeso.l
whether the best course would not be, to cuact that
the two Members should be returned fur such city.
town or borough, as his Majesty, in the exercise of
his prerogative, should be pleased to select. This
coarse would be cooforutable to the old constitutional
practice, by which, if a new borough were created, or',
an old one revived, it was done through the preroga-
tive of the Croon. Tie very last Borough which
was created, that of Newark, was created by the pre-
rogative. Ile was petsuailed that most of the difficul-
ties with regard to the question of Reform in which
this subject was involved, would be obviated by a re-
curren..e to the old constitutional doctrine.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE opposed the motion.
The Marquess of LANSDOWN said, that it was
unnecessary for him to trespass on the attention of the
House, as the Bill was likely to go to a second read-
ing without a division. tie would only observe, there-
fore, that if the law and constitution of the country
recognised the representation of the people in Par-
liament, through the means of corporate bodies, rvery
individual belonging to those corporate bodies must he
content to share their fate, and submit to the conse-
quences of their general delinquency. With respect
to what bad fallen from the Noble Earl opposite, as to
the expediency of leaving the Crown to select the
place for which the Members were to be returned, he
begged to protest most distinctly against being involv-
ed in any assent to such a proposition.. Whether such
a course would be conformable or sot with limiest
usage, he had no hesi.atioa in saying that since the
Union with Scotland and Ireland, it would be a com-
plete innovation upon all that made np the modern
practice of the Constitution. The Noble Earl conclud-
ed by declaring, that if the House should be inclined
to transfer the elective franchise to the county of
York, he should otter no opposition to that coarse.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, in explanation, that
Ise never meant to assert the power of the Crown to
create a sew Borough. Undoubtedly the Union of
Scotland and Ireland was a complete obstacle to the
creation of a new borough on the part of the Crown.
All he had suggested was, that upon the disfranchise-
meut of a borough, the Legislature might empower
the Cams to declare the two Members to be elected' for
such city, town, or borough, as in the exercise of its
'prerogative it might think fit to select.
The motion was then agreed to without a divisive,l
and the Bill was aecordiagly read a. second time, and li
ocimmed bib be committal ow Mosiay.—Adjourned.
The rapid sale of the present Lotter/ is so far frees
being astonishing, that the greater nuttier is, that
any Umtata art lekliapr ask ; when it is considered
that the price of adventure is only half what it seed so-
tie. with the absolata certainty of 4,007 Prises.. in-
ehatiieet, Toe 21..1101111., sad NG Chances for Ties
.4 ftiolu., being ail dottiest in One Day, next
rhumb's.

I •
NM.

•
06. CHANCIIIIIIf, Tunsianifollihul Mb •
•
'moms v. oottaitmis., • .4..••,
The .question to be cosekiered la Illiletniaiirebillei to
the guardianship of the infant ilkgithealWalldren of
Courtais, the French barber, who it maybe recollected
died some time ago immensely rich.
Dlr. WETHIDELL stated, that the infants tinier
been made wards of the Court, his Lordship bad di-
.reeted the Master to inquire who was a fat and pee-
lost person to act as their guardian. The muter, after
=the necessary inquiries, selected a lady of the name of
vraylor, fnr that °See, and the Learned Counsel now
prayed that his Lordship would, in parstaace of this
report, direst the mother of the infants to &User time
up to Mrs. Taylor. He understood that this models
was to be opposed.s two petitions—swe from the 1116.,
that, praying that she might be appointed guardian dt
the infests ; and the other from the young ladies
themselves; who prayed that they might be allowed to
remain with their mother without molestation. He
was at a loss to understand on what ground the mother
could claim to have the care of the infants: surely it
could not be en the absurd supposition that it did not
come under the jurisdiction of the Court to appoint a
guardian over natural children.
The junior Counsel for the defendants begged of his
Lordship that the petitions might not be heard till
Mr. Hart was present, and that hi. Lordship would
not dispose of the motion till the petitions were
heard.
The LORD CnaNcELLott ordered the petitions to be
handed to him, in order to see whether any thing, and
what, could be done respecting the object of their
prayer, and to determine which party ought to pay the
costs of the proceeding.

COVRT OF KING'S BENCH, Mr 10.

LIRZLE.

This morning Mr. P. Kelleher, the Proprietor of the
Beal dull» Bull, Sunday Paper, appeared on tho floor.
and pleaded Nut &Witty to an indictment charging him
with publishin; a libel on his Majesty, which wan pr,
ferred atsinst him by tke Constitutional Ass 'elation.

LIBEL ON HER MAJESTY THE QUEF.N.
Mr. PARK showed cause against a rule for a
criminal information, granted last term, arf..iost the
Rev. ltd. Blacow. With the nature o. the libel, t
learned counsel did not think it neces—ry to tr
the court ; all he meant to urge was, that, in the
sencc of all exculpatory affidavit on the part of the
illustrious prosecntrix, the rule for criminal informa-
tion could not be sustained. Mr. Blacow's pamphlet
contained a charge of adultery ; and the court would
nor, Mr. Park trusted, without the usual affidavit,
grant the information.
Mr. Mout:Ham was rising with great alacrity to
support the rule, when
The Loan Cum JrSTICE said that Mr. Justice
Bayley was obliged to leave the bench. As the Court
desired, in such a case, that learned Judge's assistance
31r. Brougham must he heard to-morrow.
I. Bacot ott.tai.—The case will come on first among
the peremptories to-morrow, I trust, my lord.
The Loan Cuter JCS TICE ---First of the perempto-
ries, as part heard. [The Court then adjourned at
ball past three o'clock.]

CITY BustNess.—A Court of Common Council was
yesterday held by the Lord Mayor, which was occu-
pied a considerable time with closed doors, upon a
communication made by his Lordship relative to Lon-
don Bridge. The Bill for amending the Act respect-
ing Prosecutions against Persons carrying on Trade
not being free of the City, was read a third time cud
pasted. The City Lands Committee delivered in a Re-
port on the Petition of the Grand Jury, recommending
an indictment to be prosecuted against the Keeper of
Nesvgate, for refusing them admission into the said
Gaol, which was read, and after some debate nega-
tived, and a motion agreed to, recommending the Court
of Aldermen to pat the question at rest between the
Grand Jun• and the Keeper, without further legal pro-
ceedings. It was referred to the Swordbearer's Com-
mittee to consider of purchasing the Right of Alien-
ation of the several Officers of the Lord Mayor's House-
hold, and to report. The General Purposes Commit-
tee presented a Report of their proceedings in the ap-
plication to Parliament relative to raising monies for
the support of Blackfriar's•bridge, which was read and

agreed to.
The Court proceeded to consider Mr. Favell's
motion for placing the Resolution of the 13th July
last, respecting the assembling a military force during
the meeting of a Common Ball under the statue of
Mr. Alderman Beckford, or in some other place in
Guildhall, when a long debate ensued. The motion
was finally agreed to after a division by a majority et
14, the numbers being—
For the motion, 1 Alderman, 31 Commoners, 2 Tel-
lers-34,
Against it, 1 Alderman, 17 Commoners, 2 Tellers
—2U.
LONDON BRIDOZ.—The public are aware that there
has been for some time a Carnal tee of the House of
Commons, consisting of the Members of London,
Southwark, and the adjoining Counties, sitting to in-
quire into the state of London-bridge. They have
heard Counsel on the subject, and have received a good
deal of evidence ; and on Wednesday, at one o'clock,
ten Members went to molar their personal ohservatioas..
Mr. Rennie, the Engineer, had made the requisite
preparatioe ► for the reception of the Committee ; and
the basis of the centre arch was so cleared from the
water, that the Committee were enabled to descend
eight or nine feet below the surface of the wafts, sad
minutely to examine the piers, acrd the materials of
which they were composed.
AWFUL iNSTIINCI Of SUDDIN DICATII.--About sets*
o'clock on Wesbnesdey evening a respectable looltieg
middle aged omen seeing a bill on the parlour wittiest
at No. 7, Frederick's-place, Boswell-street-mad, for the
next house to let, she knocked at the door, awl deiced
to be Ansa the house, the servant gut the hey, salt ac-
companied her to the door of hosier, which she ua-
locked, and her master and mistress being from home,
she returned home • the lade went into the empty house,
taking the key and shutting the door after her t an
hour passed, and not returning, the servant became.
alarmed. went and knocked at the Otte of the empty'
house, but received no answer ; she waited snits her
master and mistress came home at nine o'clock, when'
the mower procured a ladder. ante entered at die. brut
fluor window:. be "Demi the street titter. and when.
they entered with a light, they found the lady tinier
on a chair in. the back parlour, qnite dead.

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