The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-07-18 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

many grounds or plantations, where trees were rooted
up and other serious injury done. Much valuable
property might be destroyed in this way, and the pa-
hislat►►rnt ought to continue if persons were not to be
Irt loose to do all the mischief they could. He should
t►i.t of ject to an alteration being made in bankrupt
4 asps, because from long experience he thought it he-
cesury. He believed for forty years not more than
t►ru or three capital convictions had taken place in
saris cases. The statute of Geo. 111. which made it
a capital felony to break down banks, ought still, he
has persuaded, to be continued in force. Incalculable
mischief might be dune by the offence which that sta-
tute contemplated. A man's whole property might
perhaps be destroyed by it. Hr decidedly objected to
the com Wien of capital punishment in cases of
writing threatening letters. 'I his Hill provided, that
4..l:ate! punishment should take place only where the
Iry ter yontained a threatening demand for money ; but.
in his opinion, a threatening letter of any description
o'►{ht to subject the writer to the heaviest penalty of
Oa taw. He knew of no greater source of anxiety
! alarn► to individuals and families than threatening
letters. His Lordship, after a few more observations,
suggested to the Noble Marquis the expediency -
postponing the third reading of the Bill
that he might have time to examine its

t•illy in the intermediate time.
The Marquis of LArtspowst intimated
the suggestion, and said, that lie thought
tion fur life quite a sufficient punishment
the oases mentioned by the Noble and Learned
Tile Noble Marquis them moved, that
sent to a. Lower House of Parliament

the Omitoittee of 1519, appointed to consider the
laws relating to capital punishntents.
Motion agreed to.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mumesr, JILT 17.
Mr. S. C. WMITIIIINAD presented a petition from
Charles Pitt, of Adam-street, Adelphi, com-
plaining of a denial of Justice in the Court of Com-
mon Pleas.—Laid on the table.

Upon the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM, Pellew's Di-
vorce Bill was read a second time, and committed.

The'House resumed, and the Bill was ordered to be
real a third time to-morrow (this day).
Mr. •C. CA LyzaT moved fora Return of the Aggre-
gate amount of Fees received in the Court of Mouth-I,
Iv irk, for the recovery of Small Debts for a certain'
period of years. ile expressed his intention to found
a 11311 on these papers in the course of next Session;'
ald from au account which he held in his hand he
',we, that for the recovery of only one shilling
the fees paid in Southwark were 16s. 3d., a third
greater than any where else. He stated, that the fees
on the recovery of one shilling in London were
11.'4 6,1., in Fulwood's Rents, Ss. 6d., in Tower Ham-
let 5,. and in Vine-street, Westminster, 55. 9tl.
lie aid not see why the charge in Southwark should
sr 17:Veh exceed the charges in the places he bad just
mentioned.—The Return was then ordered.

bar F. Buirrox moved for a Return of the Number
of the Hindu° Widows. who had been consumed in the
fureral piles of their late husbands, fur the last ten
years.—Ordered.
_

Mr. Howe moved for Returns connected with the
sum of 10,709/., which had been rnoimitted in 1794
to the hands of Colonel M'Malion fur the Earl of
hilirJ, now Marquis of Hastings, and also a sum of
3,4001., which had been given to Mr. Phipps, Deputy
Paymaster in the West India Islands.—Ordered.

ROMAN CATHOLICS. —llt. Picsinarr begged to
state to the House, that be had been entrusted with
two petitions, one from certain parishes in Dublin, the
other generally from the inhabitants of that city, on
b:E.4I of tire Roman Catholics of Ireland. The tint
petition was numerously and most respectably signed,
nal deserred every consideration. The other was also
rumerosislv signed, and, amongst the signatures were
*ate of al of that persuasion in that metropolis, who
sr, distibguished by rank and station. He might
fairly state, that it contained the general sentiments
of the Roman Catholic body of Dublin. He thought
it right to apprise the House, that he would not bring
forward limy measure relating to this question at pre-
sno, and be would give his reasons why he thought
that such a proposition would be inexpedient. Ile
felt, that while another great and important question
was undisposed of, he would have been wanting in re-
.spect both to•the Parliament and the country, if he
brAight forward any proposition which would in any
insane? embarrass their consideration of that great
qivsstion. Until that question was decided, he did not
thick he would have discharged his duty if he had
dune any Meg to distract the attention of Perlis-
scent sod agitate the feeliugs of the public.--{Hear,
bear t)—But at the same time he felt that the inte-
rests entrusted to his care were of momentous import-
portanre. and he hoped that nothing might occur
which would render them necessary to be lung kept
back, and that he might have an early opportunity of
bringing them forward before the House. In pur-
suance of that course, which, he trusted, would meet
with the approbation of the friends, as well as ene-
mies---the political e:temies he meant, of the Roman
Catholics, be would now abstain from further obser-
vation, and he concluded with expressing his hope,
that as ha had now yielded to matters of so urgent a
nature, it would be •admitted, when the question of
the Room Catholic" of Ireland should come before
the House, that they were persons whose character en-
titled them to a full and candid discussion of their
claims.—(Hear. hear!)

BARRACKS IN THE REGENT'S PARK.—
Upon the motion of the emAticst.t.on of the Excns-i
gem the Report en the Bill for the erection of these
hsrracks was brought up.
On die question being put that it be received,
Mr. CALCILIIPT took this opportunity of renewing
his opposition to this Bill. He was surprised at the
peetiaseity with which this measure was pushed for-
ward by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He stated that
the barracks were\mnecessary, as the troops might
have the barracks which they before occupied. There
was one thing of which he peculiarly complained.
The rased upon which these barracks were to be
erected belonged to the Crown, and is in the pos-
session of the Crown. The contractors, therefore,
salad net bate possibly commenced them on their own
4* sad yet, not until after they bad been actually

I\.

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commenced, was any intimaticn given of snch an eV,
penditare to the House. it thould also be renialtabered.
that these barracks were agreed for a irbout ally corn-
petition, save a circular letter, which was addressed
to two or three other builders. Of this he was cer-
tain, that esery thing which could be foregone, ought
to be foregone in the present state of the finances of
the country. It hod been said, indeed, that if the
troops were not in barracks, there might be great
danger of a want of discipline among them. Bnt
these very troops bad been hitherto in that very
danger, as it was called ; and yet, when were they
accused of a want of discipline? On the contrary,tkey
had shown at Waterloo that they bad wanted neither
discipline nor bravery.—(Hear, hear !)-.-If the House
would throw back this agreement upon the Right Hon.
Gentleman, it would give him such a unties as would
in future render such contracts mach Mtn* &dean•
tageons to the public. He concluded with moving,
that the Report he received this day six mouths.
Mr. 'l'. WILSON contended, that if the bargain had
been properly made, the country would be barthened
with the annuity of 3,4901. for no more than le years,
instead of 31 - The of that annuity was is
per cent., a ram which
itant.—(Hear, bar!)
gallery said, asst'
it's Park red
_ibe a
materials colt ild fee
were the woe* now

the Hon. Member had
whole question. What
comps _ was, _men had been set to a work,
which was to cost the public 70,000/. without the con-
sent of the House of Commons having been even asked
upon the point.—(llear, bear!)
The same Member, under the Gallery (whose alms
we could not learn), asked if the works were to be now
stopped, who was to pay for the materials ?—(Hear!)
Mr. CALCRACT answered, that in his opinion the Ca
binet were to pay for them.--(Hear! and laughter.)
Mr. !ANNAN') supported the amendment. He con-
tended it was a fallacy to Pay that these barracks would
cost the country no more than 5,400 a-year for 31
years. They must be kept in repair, and were liable
to other contingencies which could not but produce
expense. Nay, the whole amount of the annuity,
would of itself cost the country 4,0001. a-year fur ever.
The question was then put, and the Gallery was
cleared fur a division.

Fur the °rights' question
For the stuenshaent

Majority in favour of the barracks
After we returned to the Gallery, a great number of
strangers rushed in, and in the hurry tunny of them
kept their hats on. There was an immediate call from
I Members in the lion se of—Hats! hats !
The Scotch Fisheries' Bill was read a third time
and passed.

Lord StnexTritAnLas moved the printing of certain
papers relating to the intercourse with Ireland.—Or-
tiered.

ELVICTION.—The Seism informed
the House, that lie had received from the Clerk of the
Hanaper Office in Ireland, a petition concerning the
late election in Dublin.
' Tlii petklion was then read, and it appeared to be
the petition of Mr. Grattan, complaining of the undue
return of the Meuil,ers lately elected for the city of
Dub was ordered to be taken into runsidera-
thin ea Tuesday fortnight. A

.
ploymedf in 1819. The petitioners complained of this
dismissal, and prayed for some relief.—The petition
w•as ordered to lie on the table.
IRISH 1)I81 ILLERIRI.—Upon the motion for
the sceond reading of the Irish Distillery Regulation

Lord MOUNT' !WILES expressed a hope, that it was
not intended to press the adoption of this unaware,
without allowing the parties immediately interested
in Ireland some time to examine its details, and an
opportunity of communicating their opinions to the
House.

The Cisvccsta.oa of the EXCHIQVZII said, that it
was not intended to presi the adoption, within this
Session, of either the present or the two other Bills
which were to follow, but merely to have them printed
and then allowed to stand over until the next Session,
in order to afford to all parties ample time for its con-
sideration. _ .

Oeneral MKT complained of that part of the Distil-
lery Laws which prescribed the use of Pettinger's hy-
drometer in the small distilleries, while the large dis-
tilleries were exempted from that provision. If the
use of the hydrometer were deemed necessary, in or-
der to prevent frauds upon the revenue, he could net
see the reason fur such exemption, and the small dis-
tilleries complained of it as extremely unjust.
The motion was agreed tot and on the motion that
the Dill should be committed to-morrow,

To a question from Lord Motaurcrans.as, the Cm:a:-
CELLO:I of the replied, that the commit-
tal was proposed merely in order to fill up the blanks
in the Bill before it was printed, and that it was nseant
to propose its recommittal in the next Sessions, when
its merits might be fully discussed.
The motion was agreed to : and the Small Stills
(Ireland) Bill, with the Excise Police (Ireland) Bill,
were also read a second time and committed fur to-
morrow.

A message from the Lords stated their Lordships'
assent to several Public and to some Private Bills.

The Itish Promissory-notes Bill was read a second
time, and committed for to-morrow.

Mr. IRVIN' brought up the Report of the Committee
upon the Papers with respect to the claim of lieneral
Desfourneaux, and after sonic observations upon the
hardship which the (lemma had suffered, and upon the
justice of his claim to compensation, gate notice of his
intention to submit a motion on the subject at an early
period of the next Session.
Mr. 'Lomas expressed a hope that a claim of this
nature, of 26 years standing, would not be acceded to
without affording sufficient opportunity fur discussion.

HER MAJESTY THE QUERN.
Dr. Lesotstrrox said-1 rise, in pursuance of the no-
tice which 1 pee to the House on Saturday, to move an
Address to his Majesty, that lie witm.' a graciously pleas-
ed to give directions that there be laid before this House
Copies of all Official Papers relative to the Service of
Plate presented by his late Maesty to her Majesty the
Queen. In the year IlsOtt, his late Majesty was graci-
ously pleased to order, for the use of her Majesty the
Queen, a service of plate. The service was made after
her Majesty's own taste, and was presented by the King
himself to her Majesty, for her use and enjoyment. The
order came through the Lord Chamberlain; the service
was paid for by the Lord Chamberlain; and till the year
1814 her Majesty continued in the possession of it, with-
out question or controol. At thatiseriod her Mpaalessetz
was residing in apartments in Kessington
and upon her quitting that residence the plate was'
delivered over by her to Mr. Math, of the Lori
Chamberlain's office, with an expel', understasdiag that
it wile the property of her Majesty, and that If ever AO
returned to this country it would be reclaimed for her
use. Upon her return to this country, her Majesty.
bring literally without any one article for her daily ass.
—(Hear, hear .)—was pleased that an application titoabg
be made to Mr. Mash for the service of plate. Mr. MIA
replied, that he did not conceive himself authorised to
deliver the plate to her Majesty without the authority
Fur the Lord Chamberlain. I. pen application being made
to the Lord Chamberlain, that Noble Lord replied to
the Lady in Waiting in the following terms ;—“ The
I Lord Cfsautherlain availed himself of the earliest occa-
sion to bring the subject of the note with which he was
honoured by lady Anne Hamilton. before the King;
and it having been ascertained by official documents, that
the plate is question is Crown property, his Majesty was
was not pleased to hose any orders for rensoring it from
the Jewel Office, where it it deposited." Such being
the answer of the Lord Chamberlain, I trust 1 shall not
be considered guilty of any indecorum, or of any breach
of that I most valuable Order of this House, which prohi-
bits Members from adverting in any manner to the name
of the King, if 1 treat the letter of the Lord Chamberlain as
having received the sanction and authority of his Majesty's
I Ministers. With respect to the course which has been pur-
sued upon the present occasion, it ',pears to me that there
are only two possible groat ads, or rather surmises, for they
do not deserve the name of grounds, upon which his
Majesty's advisers can have proceeded. The lint is,
1 that the plate was bona fide the property of the Crown;
that it was never for a moment divested out of the
Crown, and was strictly a loan to her Majesty, though
she enjoyed the use aul occupation of it. In the first
place, I shall require something more then bare asset-;
don, to believe, that when the plate was delivered to her I
Majesty, it was intended that she should only have a
qualified use and enjoyment of it. Such a supposition is
contrary to all past experience; for whew plate has bees
ordered by the Lord thasniserlain, paid for by the Lord
Chamberlain, and delivered to Princes of foreign Stake,
and Ambassadors, is there any instance in which ouch a
construction has been set up, or in which a detested of
restitution has been mails ? Rut if the present was sup-
posed to be accompanied with any condition, it is a
little extraordinary that the Crown should have thought
proper to order that the plate should be manufactured
according to the taste and fancy of her Majesty. In my
humbif opinion it is not very oespectfal to the memory
of his late Majesty, to suppose that he should have an-
speed any conditions to au act of bounty to her Ma-
jesty, to whom, upon all occasious, he bad evinced his
most gracious favour and protection. tint admitting
that there was an understanding that if her Majesty
went abroad she should forfeit fur a time the use of this
plate, I will pat it to the House whether, in -swon
decency and common sense. it ought to be refused to her
upon tier retort: ? Is it consistent with either justice or
feeling, that because her Majesty is accused she should
be treated as if she were condemned ; and that before
anyinvestigation has taken place she should be thrown
into a situation of degradation and disgrace ? Is it just
, or manly to condemn her Majesty to • shorties, is
which she is not only prevented from oojoylog bar
high rights and privileges as a Sovereign. bat wins
1 from possessing those ordinary comforts to which an
Ragftsla lady is entitled ?—.(Hear, hear. bear U—
nsling, as 1 do, that the domestic commas of any
broach of the Royal Family can never be pried Into
with a rice and serutinisiag eye, without Isdinite Injury
andiletriment to the best interests of the country. I treat
she Noble Lord will spare use the necessity of present-I

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ling in this course, not by coming forward
of State, but by admitting that circ
ease have been misapprehended, and _
wanee that an order will be insairdiatefr
restitution of her Majesty's property.
if this course be adopted by the Noble
congenial to the feelings of a great
House, and most satisfactory to the -
try. I shall conchs& by moving,
dress be presented to his Majesty, pre
jeaty may be graciously pleased to dir
laid before this House copies of all
tire to the service of plate present,
the Queen by his late Majesty, in
used by her Majesty till her departure
the year 1514.
Lord CASTLLltaiiell..-4 regret very
peoed to be absent when the
tientleman first made this motion,
more the course which the Hon. and
seta has thought proper to adopt in
flan. Before I come to this very -
the internal affairs of the Royal
serve, that although the Ham
could not wait till I was peewit
case of three weeks' standing. I understand,
quiry, that so long ago as the I "
Friend at the head of the Oovernwent
timation from the Lord Chamberlain
' had been mad* as to her Majesty havinchr,
plate, which was formerly in her
respect to the plate in question, it
property of the description stated
Learned Uent, that it was no more in, ...
late Majesty to give this plate to the Princess of
than to give her the Palace at Kensington.
it from being the property of her Majesty, that
part of it is actually old plate of King I%
which was used at the palace of Hamptem Com lh
use of it was even restricted to Kensington Palate,
and this fact is very gravely and learnedly mined is
the books of the Lord Chamberlain, " A list of
.King's plate in loan to her Royal Highness tielhinewe
of Wales at Kensington Palace." This is tie AM
entry, and it is so specific, that if at soy img tha
Princess of Wales carried the plate to any otbst Sub
dente, she exercised a larger discretion than was me
ranted by the condition of the lean. As to the eer
vatiuns which the Hun. and Learned Uentheirailm
thought proper to make upon the answer of tiel,o4
Chamberlain to the application made on thuswilin •
i Majesty, 1 aus so far from thi ski mg that anewesilbst
or indecorous, that I know of se ether ammo
under all the circumstances, Lord Hammel et*
bly have given. If the Hon. and Learned
had exercised the common diligence which migt4s4
petted from a man of business, lie might have
that this was not the first time that her Majswg bar
claimed the plate at the Palace of Keasiaptos as lot r.
perry. When else was about to quit this comae/4th
year 1814, she had actually ordered it to kielted
and sent to the Continent, and if the Lori Clorobades
had not interfered, it world have gene oat of theme.
I try. If this had happened lam Nitwit*, bet peshp
the Hon. and Learned limitless,' can Inform the halo,
by what proceeding it might have been brought hack.
In the year 1814, a letter was received, dated (Berens,
September PS, from Sir William Udl, her Majestr's
Chamberlain, directing that the neeeesary steps islet
be taken to seed to her Majesty the
itle k 4 at
sington Palace, without delay. The
replied, that spies esteemee se the heels of the ANA,
did not feel himself authorised to=it my pea tir
ro ppert to be removed. Hie Ma 's Malden lass
every lo afford her Majesty wlrateeer/.
centrifuge is IterseseSsil emethrt; est I am ivrem
that se MIMI will arias with respect to as arnoWe
sleet et piste, wiles her Majesty has selected a mita
residence; but I gonseapindeprecateeveryattempttelaw
rate the peace et the rosary, by wantooly Travails( I
dissuades et these painful tern. I feel that I hue
already gem bey esil the sphere gray duty, into a iced
of cireumalssess which ought to be eoreducted by the ale
autburittt gibe Crews, aid sever to be made the sib
jest of larSssmwtaey matron,. If the Homarihle fie
Learned °isthmus had experienced any diffmilty
comma ni calla/ with his Majesty's Ministers—if be field
thefts inaccessible, he might have had some pretence for
briniring forward this motion after the lapse of a felt.
night. The letter of Lady A. Hamilton, whirls 1 rair
not but consider as a most extraordinary prodectloa, is
dated the Ist July. As to the assertion that the elate Is
the property of the Queen, it may as well be said that
the King is able to dispose of my estate, as that he was
able to give the property
Under these circumstances, I trust the House will cor-
dially join with me in giving a direct negative to this
motion. of the Crow. to her Majesty.
Lord Auenteat.o HAMILTON said, that the sets sf
ownership on the part of her Majesty,furnished a strong
presumption that her Majesty believed the plate to Ise
her property. He would ask the Noble Lord vrbathor
the peculiar situation of her Majesty was such
calculated to give her any !swine expolbatiewsof
Lice from his Majesty's Ministers t
they had pursued towards her was me aMi,Mdeeulw
of insult and degradation. There was seethe, eieseee-
stance, respecting which he wished to say a kw wieel.
lie a Morning Paper, which maintained the epfideMet
Iris Majesty's Uovernumut. sad which was isaderalled
to receive their protection aid support, is had Wort
claimed from one end of the kingdom le the other, no
her Majesty stood in the way. of the public gerelvale'
ought to be got rid of, either as a martyr or eerimisel.
Ought sot tiovanovent to redress she wear thee im
flirted on her Majesty? If they kid tHepower toilet%
and yet refrained, were they not highly cvalpahlo NO
repeated,
repeated, that it appeared loom the noble lard's mo
endeavour, that every step which had bees takes by ibe
Majesty respecting %hie plate. wait taken under the is
conviction that the lat. King had given it to her, ala
that it was her own.
Mr. R. MARTIN opposed the motion.
Mr. llcycasxsox regretted that a sublet* Mt* Ma
which had no connexion with the merits of the goal
case, ahottld be brought forward in the present agitald
state of the public mind. It was mach to be h
mended. that a person of the Hon. and Learned Orono.
man's respectable character sad talents thould
used language which the Noble Lord opposite bid
shown was of justifiable by the facts of the ease. Ai•
veiling to what had been said by his Nebie Prier
who had just sat down. et the public prom, be fell
bound to say, that if Government poe seised the retry
of punishing the publication of whet no man coehl
read without isdignation end horror, and abstalasi
from punishing it, they did not de their duty. Os
thought the observations made by his Noble Primodii
the paragraph which had appeared in The Here*
roar perfectly justified. Nothing maid be more jab'
feasible. Ile was himself a greet Mead to the lihrsti
of the press ; out he must say, that in other. Pao F'
"ran)* 'Peaking, more respectable peldkatiess then

I

a observations, i instead of 31 years. The rate o
expediency of fact se / three-quarters pe
till to-morrow, he consider exorbii
is merits more under the g
he Regent
d his assent to ' and other a
rht transports- ! the would ask,
•
sent in any of , to be
_warned Lord. I tit-, r replied, that
t a Message be strut* upon the very gist of the
I
t fur a copy of he complained of was, that men h

ing forward with r
teitniedlse c
art: aitssa surrin
to: , •
tell, and by o:hg
ropertr. Sore I se.
to Noble Lord, it rip
a grcat majority
to the people of !kit
ring, that an built.
sty, praying that int
id to direct that tie,,
of all official paper' rp.
resented to her It
'ty, in the yetr lqh
rpartute from Eatilsei,
•
fret eery noteh that
tfonoriahle and Lentil
notion, and 1 regret‘
lon. and Leaned r •
dopt in making this
very novel disetanist
ryal Family, 1 ieo. or.
r. and Learned Gestio4
root in the ante, llny
I understood, 'poi
the Ist Ally, ay Nts:l
vernment rerrimi
mherlain that ei amity
Testy having up 44 ok.,
t her occupation I•,
on, it Is so far hen
stated by the Hoc
more the intention oft
e to the Princess of
It Kennington. So to,
her Majesty, that ten
ste of King William 11l
of Hampton Coin. lh