The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-05-01 00:00:00

TIIE STATESMAN.

ON • THE CATIMIC CLJEVIS.

TO TIM EDITOR OF TliE STATESMAN.

STR,—Nothing is of so much consequence In agree-
ments of every kind, as that the contracting parties'
should clearly comprehend each other's meaning;
without this agreements are sure to terminate itt dis-
sgreement, and the best friends frequently become
irreconcileable enemies. These •remarks have been
verified in the Veto contest ; and, therefore, I am
serving all the parties concerned in the question of
Catholic Emancipation, by rectifying the mistakes
on this pivot of the question, into which some dis-
tinguished Members of Parliament are reported to
Fare fallen, and misled others.
_

I shall begin with that capital mistake of an illus-
trious statesman and orator—that there have been ;
times, namely, in 1799, 1808, &c. when the Veto
Would have been conceded to by the Prelates of the
Catholic Church (for none but those who hold spiri-
tual authority can confer anyportion of it upon others),
in case the House of Parliament hatl,on thesseccasions,
a;reed to go into a Committee. To explain my
meaning, it is necessary I should explain the word
Veto, which word, it is to be observed, never once
occurred in my original negociations with certain
distinguished statesmen, but was subsequently im-
ported from Ireland. Tee Veto then may either
mean a negative power is the Crown, over the sapr,,,
pointment of Bishops, reetricted to mere civil pur-
poses, and to a certain number of times, as to its
exercise; or it may mean a negative power, unre-
stricted in these points, and therefore equivalent to a
positive nomination. It was the former which I ad-
vocated, during certain months in the year 1808, asi
appears by my then repeatedly publishing, that " I
would rather give my blood than give either power
or influence to any Un-Catholic Government over
any portica of the Catholic Church." It was the
latter kind of negative which Lord GRENVILLE) and
the Members of the Legislature in general have, on
different occasions, claimed, as appears by the cele-1
brated Letter of the Noble Peer, in which he says—
" Call the power negative, or call it positive, pro..
vided it be efficient, it is the same to me."—Now,
Sir, according to this generally received and Parlia-
mentary acceptation of the word Veto, neither in
1799, nor in 1808, nor at any other time, were the
Catholic Prelates disposed to grant it to an Un-Ca-
tholic Power. In the former of the abovementioned
years, though the Iritds Prelacy was deceived, as the
laity also was, for the purposes of the Union, by the
agents of Mr. Pm, who led them both to expect in-
com parable ad vantages from it,yet the former expressly
stipulated for its " due controul," or paramount au-
thority, over the important concern of the appointment
of future Bishops ; being resolved to grant no power
to the Crown, except, such as should be efficacious
for the exclusion of disloyal or seditious candidates.
The Prelates stipulaiea; moreover, for the necessary

jurisdiction of the Pope ; whereas Lord CASTLE-
REAGH, who was the chief of the agents in
question, has, within this year or two, publicly
informed us, that it was bis express intention to
exclude the discipline of the Council of Trent,
which sanctions this jurisdiction. The ten Prelates,
therefore, who passed the Resolutions of 1799, did
not deceive Government, but were deceived by it.
To say nothing of the negociation having been laid '
aside and forgotten during nine years, until I, un-
fortunately, became the means of furnishing two
statesmen with copies of it, subsequently to the de-
bates of 1808, by one or other of whom, it was com-
municated to certain Catholic Politicians, who pub-
lished it, for the first time, as an Appendix to those
Debates. With respect to the proposal of the un-
limited Veto, or of any Veto at all, or other
measure connected with it, I utterly deny, as
I have frequently done before in a public man-
ner, that I authorised it, or countenanced it, or
knew any thing previously about it, when it
actually was made on the 25th of May, 1808; not II
-
withstanding an Honourable Baronet is reported
to have asserted, within these few days, en a very
solemn occasion, that I gave this authority. That I
(lid not authorise the proposal, was candidly acknow-
I -dged in Parliament by the Right Hon. Gentleman ,
who made it, on an equally solemn occasion ; and
this' is further evident from that loots confidefitial I
note of mine, whicJs was so impropepi read in Par-
liament, by which It appears that] lilts waiting for
instructions on the subject from my constitueuts in
Ireland. On the other hand, that I did not lead this
Gentleman to expect that the Catholic Prelates would
consent to an unlimited negatire or Veto, such a one
as " would make his 11/I,lEitlr as much the Head of
the Catholic, as he is of the Established Church ;"
neither by the above-mentioned note, nor by any
conversation which I had the honour of holding with
him, is demonstratively evident b) the facility with
which that Gentleman, and other Members of both
Houses, connected with him, permitted me to circu-
late a protest against the Veto in question, contain-
ing the restrictions that I always insisted upon,
which Protest I got printed the very mqrning on
which the debate closed, namely, May 28, 1808.
The Honourable Baronet here alluded to is a 'wit-
ness of the firmness with which I always insisted on
the above-mentioned restrictions ; and he cannot be
ignorant that it was still more in consequence of tilt
inflexible resolution of him and his political friends,
both Lords and Commoners, to accept of no nega-
tive, unless au unrestricted one, both as to number
and motive, joined to the proofs we had, that the
measure itself was intended as a handle for further.

alterations in our discipline, still more than the una-
nimous voice of all Ireland, declaring that her !
Church, at least, should be independent of thy:
State, which caused me and my brother Prelates
there to declare (what we are every day more and
more convinced of ), that the proposed arrangement is
impracticabk ; and that submitting, as we always
have done, to every civil test and security which the
Legislature has prescribed, or may prescribe, we can-
:RN permit them, professing as they do, a religion ,
I which protests against our own, to interfere in the
tdiscipline and internal economy of it. This, our re- I
I solution, was made and published not last year, as •
the Honourable Baronet is reported to have said, butt
in the year 1808. This Honourable Gentleman is
further stated to have accused me of publishing mis-
I chievous Pamphlets concerning the Veto, and a Re-
solution entered into and presented to Parliament by
-certain Catholics of this country, in support of it;
-though it is clear that I have barely supported and •
enlarged upon the doctrines and sentiments which my
brethren of Ireland have adopted` and published.
That I have not misrepresented the Veto, in describ-
htg it as fraught with oppression, and other evils
worse than itself, he himielf seems to acknowledge,
Where he speaks of the " New office of Inquisition,"
ittbich he requires should accompany It. But what
could snood my surprise, when ',found myself, in
the report of hii speech, in his owls favourite News-
paper, the Globe, described as an advocate of this
,---very office, among other appendages of the Veto,
ever since 1805, down to the last year ; and
charged with having written four letters, which
were intended for publication, in defence of this
religious persecution. It is true, indeed, that
I did write four letters, which were actually printed,
in refutation of various misrepresentations of the
Councils and Canon Laws that were levelled, in the
Anti-Jacobin Review, probably by Dr. DUIGENAN,
against Sir JOHN HIPPISLEY'S speech, but I do not
recollect that any mention of the Veto occurred in
those letters ; and I am quite sure that I would at
any time, since I first heard of it, rather have sacri-
ficed my life, than have even remotely sanctioned his
proposed office of a Ministre des Calks, that is
to say, of an Inquisition. —I cannot finish these
remarks without quoting a passage from the reported
speech of the Minister. He says, " I take it for
granted that conditions and provisions are still deem-
ed necessary (by the advocates of Emancipation) ;
but, it is said, we will not produce them for fear of
their being sifted, examined, and held up to public
scorn in a way injurious to them. But, it will be
the same thing, when they are proposed in a Com-
mittee, and the supporters of the claims must sub-
mit to have the terms sifted and examined into, un-
less they will bring them in, on the third reading of
the Bill, or hurry them through, by way of rider."
-Thus far I agree with the Right Hon. CHANCELLOR
of the EXCHEQUER, that every attempt arsurprise or
. deceit in transactions of importance, and especially
in those of religion, are not only dishonourable, but
also impolitic; and yet it has been said of a certain
Catholic Gentleman, by another still more distin-
guished Catholic, that he would rather gain a shil-
ling in that way than one thousand pounds in a
fair and open way. —I wish for nothing from
my Protestant fellow-subjects but what they clearly
understand and freely give ; and I am persuaded that
when they do clearly understand the whole matter
in debate, they will freely give all that we wish for.
• It Was chiefly owing to this plain and straight for-
ward line of conduct which I pursued in 1791, as
opposed to the crooked and misty politics of the
Catholic lawyer who opposed me, that I made
so many friends among distinguished Statesmen,
who, at first, were prejudiced against me, and that I
beat my 'adversary at his own weapons. To speak
now of the Irish Catholics, I trust there are few
Members of Parliament, who will say what I heard
one of them utter, when pressed with the impolicy of
cramming an Emancipation, drugged with the bitters
of religious persecution, down their throats :—D--
the Irish, we will pacify them as we always have pa-
cified them ! In fad, of what use would Emancipa-
tion be, if it failed in its grand object, that of paci-
fying the Irish, and uuiting all descriptions of sub-
jects in the common cause ?

I am; &e.

J. MILNER.
If, Great tleallad4tttet, Cavendish-sqbere, April 20,1812.

BRITISH NAVAL FORM—The following state-
meat is extracted from the OA vial Returns up to I
this day :—At sea, 86 of the line, 11 fifties, 126 1
frigates, 105 sloops, 9 bombs, 112 brigs, 37 cutters,i
50 schooners ; total 536. In Port and fitting, 155.1
Guard-ships, 16. Hospital ships, &c. 4.1. In Com-
mission, 751. In Ordinary, 205. Building, 64;
forming a grand total of 1024 vessels of war, 264 of
the line, 35 fifties, 245 frigates, 186 sloops, 15
bombs, 166 brigs, 44 cutters, and 70 schooners.
Of this force, there are, in the Mediterranean, 103
vessels-33 of the line. Off Spain and Portugal,
76-18 of the line. In the English Channel, 72-
16 of the line. In the North Sea, 65-6 of the line.
In the Downs 44-4 of the line.
EXTRAORDINARY EPITAPH, upon a Chorister to
one of the Kings of Spain, in the church of Sara-
gossa in that kingdom.—llere lies Juan Cabeca,
Chorister of our Lord the King. When he was re-
ceived into the choir of Angels, in augmentation of
that happy company, his voice was so distinguisha-
ble from the rest, that eve! 000 himself hearkened
to him with attention l a 44. at last said, rather se.
verely, to the Angels, r 6. frohl your tongues, ye
calves, and let Juan Caber},, Chotister to the King
lof Spain, sing my prober. • • _

fort

THE QUEEN'S DRAWING ROOM.

'Yesterday the Queen held a drawing-t.;cTe St.
James's Palace. It being the first whi.ch her Majesty •
his held since the King's Birth-day in 1810, and
acre having been no Court for the Ladies during a
lipse of nearly two years, great preparations were
node by the higher ranks for their appearance on this
occasion. The ;Adige splendours of the Court were
• likewise considerably increased on this revisal of I
them, by the invitations of the Prince Pogent, which I
were issued to the number of 400, to si magnificent
entertainment given in the evening at Carltou House,
by his Royal Highness, to her Majesty, the Princesses
and the Nobility and Gentry. The Palace of St.
James's and the vicinity bore rather the appearance
of the celebration of a birth-day, than the holding of ;
a draiving-room in the usual manner. Parties of the
Ufe Guards were stationed in the morning at all the ,
avenues, and in the front of the Palace, who, with the'
' assistance of the Police-officers, preserved great regu-
larity and order in the passing of the carriages and
sedans to and from the Palace. At noon, Bond-street, 1
St. James's-street, and Pall-mall, were all in.a bustle;
thronged with superb carriages and elegant equipages;
and the windows filled with spectators. All the ar-
rangements resembled those for birth-days; and nuns. - I
bers of tickets were issued from the Lord Chamberlain's
Office, for spectatori, iu the anti-rooms, guard-cham- !
ber, &c. Her Majesty, with the Princesses Augusta,
and Mary, left the Queen's House about one o'clock, i
and alighted at the Duke of Cumberland's apart-
' ments at St. James's, where they were received by !
his Rerti Highness. Here her Majesty and the
Princesses dressed, the Royal jewels having been pre-
viously brought thither from the Bank. After per-
I taking of some refreshments in the Duke's apart- •
ments, they proceeded with a numerous train of at-
tendants
through the gallery and the ball-room, and i
entered the Grand Council Chamber, where her Ma-
jesty
received the company, and the numerous per-
sons who had the honour of being presented.
The Prince Regent went from Carlton House to
St. James's Palace, and appeared in full state for the
first time since the establishment of the Regency. The
procession of his Royal Highness consisted of three
carriages, drawn by two horses each; within them,
his Aids-de-camp, Pages of Honour, &c. The ser-
vants wore their State liveries, and new State
_hats,
adorned with blue feathers. Then followed the State
coach of his Royal Highness, drawn by six bays in
superb red Morocco harness, decoiated with red ri-
bands. On the sides of the carriage walked four
State helpers. The coachman and four footmen
wore black velvet caps, like those of his Majesty's
servants. The Prince Regent Was habited in mi-
litary uniform : he was accompanied by the Duke
of Montrose (Master of thn aae. Larl John
Murray (Lord in Waiting). . The procession wee
escorted by a party of the Life atterds, and arrived
at St. James's at half-past three. Earl Cholmondr-
ley (Lord Steward), and the Earl. of Macclesfield,
and other Officers of State, waited at the bottom of
the grand staircase for the Prince Regent, and con-
ducted his Royal Highness to the Grand Council
Chamber, where his Royal Highness plid his respects
Ito his Royal Mother. He remained in the drawing-
room, half an hour. Their Royal Ilighnesses the
1 Princess of Wales, the Duchess of York, the Dukes
of York, Clarence, Kent, Cumberland,. Cambridge,
and Sussex, their Highnesses the Duke of Glouces-
ter, and the Princess Sophia of Gloucester, and his
Serene Highness the Duke of Brunswick, were also.
present.
Among other distinguished persons were.

The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Lord Chan-
cellor, the Ministers of State, the Lord Chief Justice of the
King's Bench, the Spanish, Turkish, Neapolitan, and Sardinian
Ambassadors, and American Charge d'Affaires.
Doors—Buccleugh, Beaufort, Newcastle, Devonshire.
DUCRESSEI—Rucclergh, Dorset, Beaufort, Newcastle.
Maanutses—Wittchester,Worcester, Sligo, Cornwallis, Head-

MARCNIONESIES—Bath, Hertford, Lansdowne, Sligo, Salis-
bury, Headfort, Donegal.
ExaLs—Mansfield, Morton, Cork, Mountnorris, Bridgewater,
Guildford, Westmorland, Buckinghamshire, Harcourt, Bes-
borough, Talbot, Craven, Oxford, Leven and Melville, Dart-
mouth, Cholusondeley, Kadnor, Shaftesbury, Mount Cashelt,
Powis, Camden, Spencer, Con,ngham, Chichester, Maccles-
field, Aylesford, Fitxwilliam, Scarborough, Sandwich, Pem-
broke, Athlone, Selkirk, Lonsdale, Kinnoul, Limerick.
CooNvgisms—Loudon and Moira, Coventry, Mouotnnrris,
Cork, Limerick, Ntexborougb, Aboyne, Dartmouth, Darutoy,
Chatbam, Barrymore, Bridgewater, Belmore, Macclesfield,
ford,

Aylesford„ Cratiford, 'Oxford; Cowper, Camden, Spencer, Nor-
thampton, Derby, Conyngham, Morton, Powis, Scarborough,
Pembroke, Taakerville, Mansfield, Selkirk, Ross, Dowager
Pembroke, Harrington.
Vrscouwrs—Duncaannon, Ashbrook, Gage, Mountjoy, Syd-
ney, Newark, Ranelagh, Cranley, Carltou, Lake, Citetwynd,
Palmerston, ilinchinbrooke, Templetown, Middleton, Mel-
ville.
VISGOUNTESSES—Hampden, Ranelagh, Castlereagh, Douglas,
Middleton, Chetwynd, Crawley.
llnntors—Meath, Norwich, Exeter, Salisbury, Derry, RR-
phoe.
Loins—Kenyon, Amherst, Calthorp, Grantlev. K. Fitzge-
rald, H. Moore, Yarborough, Walsinghani, G. Thynne, Gam-
bier Compton, Stanley, Clive; Radsteck, G. Beresford, Bacot,
Boston, Whitworth, Henley, Bradford, C. Somerset, Kirk-
wall, Scarsdale, Masshaun, Somers, Somerville, Sheffield, Suf
field.
Loorns—De Grey, Enuismore, L. Pery, J. Coventry, Moot-
ford, Helena Moore, F. Wedderburn Webster, Collingsvood,
Ciaveriag, Duncan, M. Pery, Gray. Haggerstone, Norberto*,
C. Annesley, Mildmay, C. Durham, Idruce Ellenborougb,
Keith, Metcalfe, Nichols, A ucitlind , Henley, Balfour, Caltkorp,
Cliye_i Rolle, Hawkins, C. Sackvllle, B. and C. Legge, Alvan-
ley Trigge J. Barley, Baying; Shaw, Stamford, Bishopp,
Leonard, Pa Turner, Nonatutton, Vernon, Allen, F. Web-
ster, Ginckell, L. Pusey, It. Seymour., Glenber% le, Dowager
Brownlow oes, Allen, two Cecil,, three Prates, G. Thyane,
Monson, C. Darner, and. E. Compton, S. Stanley, C. Spencer,
Begot, Crawford, A. Vernon, Boston, Dawkins, Beresfordi
Midas, L. Grey, H. Sullivan, Colliug ood, Somers, 11. Eger"
too, Bingham, C. Gordon, S. Moore, two Fitzroys, Strong,
Finch, Buller, Carrington, 11. Parker, Fitzgerald, Radstock,
C Murray, Buckworth, M. Drtunmund, Edgcnmb, M. Taylor,
Floyd, C. Campbell, Glynn.
Bnrrard, W. Frazer, A. Hume, V. Gibbs, J. Fre-
derick, C. F.dnwrotone, C. Avail, M. Ximenes. T. Metcalfe,
M. Wood, D. Duudas, J. T. Duckworth, J. Nichol!, W.. Sti-
r J. Heard, E. Buller, T. Sutton, W. Curtis, J. Shaw,
P. Craig, J. Crawford, D. Bishop, C. Morgan, J: Dawkin,
I W. Rush, J. Dunbar, C. Brisbane, G. Tapia, J. Cux, E. Bul-
ler, J. Barrington, J. Montgomery, W. Rush, W.onley.llolincs.
COUNT—LOdO/f.
BA RORS—N ulcken. Hompesch, Lopez.
Butoons—(l. Nolcken.
Docxoas—Baillie John Willis, &c. &c.
The Lord and Lady Mayoress, •Skerith, Recorder, &c. &c.

The presentations to her MAJESTY were very nu-
merous, and consisted mostly of ladies. - the State
Rooms were much crowded by the • ouusual fullness
of the attendano... • ; •

• o

At the last Sessions for the county of Middieseiot
tree Bill was found against the' Rte. Paatecti i,kt,
for an assault on Major BLAQUIVVIE.
A few nights ago, part of the gallery of the Theatre
at Tunbridge gave way, by which accident many
persons were bruised, but as tins were lost.

NAVAL INTELLIGENCE.

PLYMOUTH, A rftm 19.

The Maidstone frigate, of 3d guns, Captain Burdett, sailed
this morning, with 14 trancports under her convoy, having on
board detaelynents of Di-agoons for Lisbon.
Arrived the sterling Castle, of 14 guns, from the Eastward ;
the Foxhound brig of war, from a cruize ; and tne Providence,
Cotcsworth, fi am Sunderland.