The Statesman.
London, England, 1814-11-24 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

,

into the fees taken in the Cowls of Justieelwat ton. was no nec s e st y . for
the epplieatidu of 'the Roc tot &Wink Irelind; and 4le• Anti *hal"
tained in this extraordinary fact,. that theepeetidage Baronet.
jehatrechiter e. tid 4. ealkirtioni he has persuaded talk tid
actually taken on
,meate, paid into Court, Was Sir S. ROMILLT and thirSOLICITOIIeCIE:
paroesuesnetootne 'shilling, while Ity a Resolution of the , NERAL explained.
_•• "Mr. any 1114
Lords, of 1732, t was fixed it sixpence, Mr. ABERCROMBIE expressed surprise at sertiog or insinuating that Ireland did not; ante tbd
Such crying endrmity was a sufficient grouhtl,• even' the soreness. &need by the Leers ed Gentleman on Union, possess as Much eight to the coeSidentioti
if it had been a solitary one, for the Address which the other side, •and by so many of his Friends, upon tlset liouswas "by other pert of the empire.
Itsci been voted. But it mattered not what were the the subject of theßesolotion which gave rise to the PONSONHT observed that he bed before kte
grounds fortha Address, It had been voted by the debate. There was so much queering whit the Right Roviodrable Gentlesnat had
House—graciously answered by the Crown yet the against this Resolution, ep go leave nodOubt with rtl,,wsl4 het he now nedirstoed what he realist to gay.
Ministers were determinid that the intentions of the sect to the feeling which this ResOlution ezeitede! -After a reply from Sir J. NEWPORT/ the Ade
House should not be ftil rtia.. It was said that no Itßu the trusted the House would' slitt persevere id. dress was voted.
Commission was made out, bat the names of some of i imaiotaining its Resolution, and that the hostility The Right Honourable Baronet thin Said,
the persons to be appointed Commissioners were °which it experienced, would rather serve to deter- had to move for a Return of Fees in an Offices MI
known. Among them were two Meilen in Chan- mine that perseverance until -the satire' ry object in Fees of which were Specifically prescribed by A.ctelt
eery. These Misters in Chancery were to enquire view should be effectually attald. With a view ' X'arliansent ; and the object of his Motion was to as.
into the exactions of Officers ofJustice-e-ieto their own to that attainment, the House had
two questions to certain whether any, and how much more then the.
exactions. He could very well conceive how the inten- consider on this Occasion : first, whence the delay legal fees, were exacted. 'The office to which ho
tions of the House had been frustrated. In the Minority arose in complying with its Resolution ; and second- laded was the Registrar of Deeds in Ireland in sitiiek
against the Address there went of the House three ly, as to the character of the Commission by which it be understood that a considerable augmentaticid d 1
Cabinet Ministers, and among them the Right Hon. was proposed td carry that Resolution into effect: fees had taken place, especially within the last unfit
Gentleman opposite him (Mr. B. Bathurst), the one As to the first,delay it appeared that the complained our three months. According to his infornvietiens etc
most immediately connected by affinity to the head of, which delay was, in fact, a direct violation. of '*deed, he might say that it waswithin his knot/:,
of the department to which the execution of the Re- the Resolution of the House, was attempted to 'be Is*, that the fees of this office, which six Month*
solution of the House belorged. The fate of the justified solely upon the assertion of the Learned ago were three or four-fold beyond what was allowed.
Address of 1799, and the present delay would, be Gentlemen en the other side, that the Resolution it. .by the Act referred to, had within the last two pt
trusted, persuade the House of the necessity of ex. self was idle and futile. Thus ceremoniously was three months been doubled under a gentlemen who
orcising their right, and of skewing that there was the judgment of the House treated by those Gentle.: Lbed succeeded by reversion to the office of Region:
no power in the country that could endeavour with men who deprecated a Resolution,,the plain weaning The Hon. Baronet concluded with moving for a re=
success, to-frustrate a public enquiry. His intention of which was, that a Commission should. be R. !turn of the Feesvecelved either by the Register or
was to follow up his present motion, by moving that pointed to report the result of its enquiry on the ;his Deputy in thsi offideitllnclasi ft for the fait betel
there be entered on the same Journals which con. abuses alluded to at an early part of the present See.
,yda' rs, distinguishing each yea.
tained the answer to the Address, which stated that ' 'ion. Bat according to the Learned Gent. (the Soli. Ordered accordihgly.• ' •-. 7
. • 0.,
the wishes of the House` should be complied with dtor-General), the Commission, if it were even tip. , The Right Honourable Beswiest further Mottettfoi
a resolution that the • Prince Regent's Ministers had' pointed, was not likely to have any thing worth pp. 'a Return of the Writeof Letiletneued by tleseithwei
frustrated his gracious intentions, with such further porting at an early period of the Session. Oat pl. ,Courts In Ireland. for tiros* Wren years, ewe,.
censure as should appear expedient. He concluded so,it was not expected that the Commission sho' uld clepe sal liking each year, and abet the Writs far abort*
by moving, That an bumble Address be presented its enquiries with the Grit Report, but that it 'should Pl. from those under that .snm. The Ilonisorable
to the Prince Regent, praying that a Copy of the report from time to time such facts as it discovered,' :Baronet dwelt upon the-oppreisio& to which indivi..
Commission appointed in consequence of the answer and continue to prosecute its labours until the fullest 'duals, especially of the poorer order, were subject
of his Royal Highness, of the llth of July last, to the information was attained, when it should submit its through the operation of these writs, and he express.
Address of the House of .the 28th of June, and a final Report for the consideration of the House. —. ed a hope, that when die facts were befOre the House
Summary of all Proceedings under that Commission, Into the defence of the Resolution he did not think it would see the necessity of adopting some remedy
be laid before the House. it at all necessary to enter, notwithstanding the at- for an abuse very generally complained of in Ireland.-
Mr. BATHURST stated that a Commission had tacks made upon it, for that Residution was sane. The motion was agreed to.
not been issued, but that it was not therefore to be tioned by the judgment, and it was indisputable that Mr. WHITBREAD brought in a. Bill for extende
presumed that the Government bad intended to frus. his Right Hon. Friend in proposing it acted upon log the provisions of the Acts of the 33d and • Seek
trate the !!wishes of the House, or to protect the respectable precedents. Then as to the second ques. ,of the King, with, respect to Weights, to tbetweldlie
Officers' of Courts in exactions upon the suitors.— tion, he wail he must confess, quite astonished at don of Measures also. . .
Great difficulties had occurred in fulfilling the wishes the assertion, that any difficulty could occur in find. Read a first end ordered to be read a seessed4lemt
of the Address, for from the vague and general terms log persons duly competent to discharge the duties of to-morrow, and to be printed.
of the Resolution it was impossible to say to what the Commission. He could not conceive it possible The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
officers the enquiry should apply, and whether it that any serious difficulty could exist upon this point i presented a Message from the Regent, recommettd.
should not extend even to constables, for the words either in England, Ireland, or Scotland. Ministers log, that in consideration of the ability, integrity,
were, " all officers of justice ;" and whether there could, he was persuaded, find five persons duly and indefatigable industry, manifested by Lord Wal.
should he one Commission, or one for each kingdom, qualified for this Commission in England, without siogham, as Chairman of the Committees of the
which latter course the Government had thought including any of the Masters in Chancery, whose House of Lords, lad the inability of that Noble
would be most proper. It was said that it was to appointment was, in his opinion', very justly object- Lord, from age and indisposition, any longer to per.
be similar to the Commissions issued in former times, erlt to. Bat this appointment it was attempted to ' form the duties of that office, the House should grant
which were in themselves all similar, which obliged .;justify upon the ground of precedent, namely, be. him an annuity of 20001.
the persons employed to refer to all the Commissions cause a Judge had once been a member of a similar This Message was referred to the consideration of
in question, to see in vre.ich points they agreed.— Commission. This Judge, however, as it was stated, a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.
There was also a difficulty in the choice of the Com. did not attend the Commission, and for_what purpose The Irish Timber. Bill was read a second time and
missioners : they should be persons that had some then was he appointed ? Surely not merely with a committed for to-morrow.
knowledge of the law, and yet neither practising-- view to ornament: But even were this Judge a Upon the motion of Mr. FITZGERALD, that
Barristers nor Judges could be appointed, and ac- working Commissioner, he should have objected to 'the Resolution'of the House of Saturday last, with
cording to the lion. Baronet, the choice of his Ma,. his appointment to an ffice intended to enquire into, regard to the Customs in Ireland, .should be entered
jesty's Ministers should have been still further ' not abuses attributed to any. of the Judges, but al, as read,
rowed by excluding the Masters in Chancery leged to have been committed by the Officers of the Sir J. NEWPORT rose, and argued against the
But what objection could there be to the ap.. Courts. Therefore, in objecting to such an appoint. Tax-upon Timber in Ireland, which he conceived pe.
pointment of Masters in Chancery ? meat; he should have conceived that he was standing culiarly injurious to the Irish peasantry, because it
evictions had they been charged with ?--Not- between the Judge and an invidious situation. Upon enhanced an article essentially necessary 'to enable
withstanding the obstacles which had occurred, the the same ground, then, he now disapproved of the them to erect more comfortable cottages. That the
Commission for England had 'been drawn up, and ; appointment of the Masters in Chancery upon the peasantry of that country were most miserably lodged
would have been issued immediately, but that one of ' existing Commission, although he had the highest was universally complained of, not only by these re.
the persons named to act under it had, so late as yes. ! possible respect for these Masters : for one of them sident in the country, but by all writers respecting
day, declined the office. The Commissions for the •in particular he felt the utmost regard, and for that I it. This complaint, however, was not likely to be
two other parts of the United Kingdom would follow regard he wished that that inestimable individual had removed or reduced, if this'll': were gontinued. le
the other as soon as the persons who had been ep. ' declined to, accept the appointment. He did not, another important view this tax was objectionable s•
plied to had returned answers whether they would , therefore, object to these appointments from any the it was known that the provision trade .was most ma.
act under these Commissions. He had no objection ' slightest suspicion that these respectable Officers terial to Ireland, and this tax had served to raise the
to the motion. I would decline to do their duty ; but as a great part price of staves from 7d. to 25d. since the last Sea-
Sir S. ROMILLY thought the House would not 'of the abuse complained of, as to the exaction of sion. But the grievance 'resulting to the peasantry
be satisfied with the statement of the Right Hon. ' fees, was alleged to have taken place in the office of was particularly to be deprecated—for the tax raised
Gentleman (Mr. Bathurst).—His Majesty's Ministers • the Masters in Chancery, he could not think it pro- I the price of timber so high, that it was quite beyond'
would not have acted as they had done, if they had per that any of these Officers should be included in the means of the peasantry to roof their houses for
Wished to pay respect to the House of Commons.— I the Commission. These Officers would, indeed, in slating, and it was notorious that whole districts had
The intention' of the House clearly was, that a Com- this Commission, be liable to appear as witnesses and been driven into insurrection, by the threat of barn.
mitres should be appointed without delay ; and the judges, for these Commissioners themselves might, I ing their thatched cabins, because that threat, from
reason why the clause in the Resolution, pressing for as well as the other Masters, be subjected to an exa- the nature of straw, could be so easily executed.
a speedy compliance with the wishes of the House, mination before the Commission. •It could not, then Mr. \V. FITZGERALD said that he certainly
had been inserted, was, the culpable contempt which ;of course, be pleasant for these Officers to be placed was not anxious to'lay greater burdens upon Ireland
the Address of 1799 had experienced on the part of in such a situation ; it could not be agreeable to than the country could bear. He wished, not only
the Advisers of the Crown. It had been said, that their own feelings, or advantageous in a public point to assimilate the revenues of the two countries, as
there had been difficulties in drawing Up the Com- of view. The Learned Gentleman concluded with re- to the amount of duty, but also as to the mode of
mission, and in the choice of persons to act under peating that he meant nothing in any degree invi- collecting them. There was, however, a great mis-
it. As to the Commission, the simple course was dittos with regard to the Officers to whom he refer. understanding, if not misrepresentation, gone forth
to have framed it in the words of the Resolution ; red, whose character he felt to be quite above the with respect to those duties. Five years antecedent
nor would there have been any difficulty but with ,reach of any reproach. to their operation, the price of timber, owing to the
persons disposed to start objections, and show them- I Mr. H. ADDINGTON observed, that to form a situation in which the Northern Powers of Europe
selves wiser than the House of Commons. As to I competent COmmission for the purpose under con-
I were placed, had been greater than it was now, with
the persons, he did not see why practising Barristers sideration, a combination of qualifications was neces- the whole addition of the duties imposed. As to
should not be appointed, as they were the most. dis- teary, and that therefore it was difficult to find per- what hid fallen from the Right Hanourable.Barettet,
interested and most competent persons that could be ; sons duly qualified; but in point of fact such a diffi- with respect to the delay that ought to take place in
heed on. lie did not doubt the honour or the reel catty had occurred as his Right Hoe. Relation had all measures affecting the interests of Ireland and
spectability of the, persons appointed to act under ! stated. . With respect to the Address to the Crown, lcatland, though he might be disposed to admit the
the Commission, but the Public would expect to see , which had been alluded to bythe Right Hon. Mover, propriety of such delay in some instances, yet as to
persons perfectly disinterested ; and, indeed, it was 'to which be "(Sir J. Newport) complained that no the general principle he could not hut observe that
a most invidious situation for judicial persons to IA answer was returned, he (Mr. A:) conceived, that !he believed it was entirely new to Parliament. It
placed in. The motion for an Address was carried ,es there was no answer to return, the most respect. ! was supposed that every Member discharged iris duty
by the vote of a Master in Chancery, who voted, for ful mode towards the House was to return none.— Iby attending there, and that House was considered
it, because his own office was to be enquired into; [d laugh, and hear, hear! from Sir J. Newport.]as representing the whole country : and it would he
and now a Master in Chancery was to be made a'. Mr. PONSONBY, after observing that Ireland a serious impediment to public business if they were
Member of the Commission employed to enquire. He was, notwithstanding the remark of the Right Hon. Ito wait till communications were regularly made with
hoped, if further delay took place, or if the COM- Gentleman (Mr. Bathurst), entitled to the same con- ! their constituents. The evils of such a system would
mission' was not properly acted on, the House would j sideration from the Legislature as Great Britain, ex- ' be still more 0'..e:0-s in those cases, where the ob.
take the matter into its own hauls, and appoint a pressed his astonishment that the Commission alluded ject was imposin,, -'uties of customs, as it woola
to bad not been sooner appoleted in compliance •I necessarily a" fie:, *ties to the most injurious spa..
Committee on the subject.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that by the with the Address of that House. But it appeared, culations ter., rieloatll gals who were likely toles.
Commission of 1732, the Lord Chancellor and that the appointment of Ws Commission was not Very ; erected by the • •roplisev,Tdties. With regard tett*
Judges were named as Commissioner's, with power agreeable to the feeliiireof some Gentlemen, Wire- present measure, it w, se enly a mitigation of do.
to appoint Sub.commissioners, who were selected fore no means were left untried to prejudice the be. , des already imposed, h, thought it desirable that it
among the Officers of the Court. This was sine case, solution, and thwart the view of the House. With should become a law as sioa possible.
though the Commission had been prayed for on the respect to Ireland, he could state, that the House had -Mr. PONSONBY %ern, id opinion, that it would
ground of abuses said to exist under the eyes of the perhaps scarcely ever pasted a Resolution which gave " be highly objectionable to pass the Bill, till the House
Judges, which was not now ventured to be asserted. mere patiefectiee to the entightetted part of the Irish had an opportunity of knowing the sentiments of
He saw no reason why Masters in Chancery should pofilk. There were no doubt in that country some those persons concerned in.the trade. There was no
not net on the Commission. It was said, that fees piltiaaa,
toyb.tto means Inconsiderable, wino strongly couhtry in Europe in which& tax opon timber would
were taken in the Masters' Office, bat it was not objected this Resolution, but the cause of their ob. be attended with n many bad effects as Ireland.
said that they were taken with the sanction of the jectso• n.furnished an iminglent in favour of. the men- and he shoal be glad If the same sum as was ex.
Masters. No person who would not act honour- sure. Bat ae to the dificulty of finding Commis- ;meted to become/I from the measurecould bessised
ably in the Commission of Enquiry, was certainlx, sinners, so mach dwelt upon by the Gentlemen in any otbir trey. • There was literally no timber in
moat unfit to fill any judicial situation. lie, ems- .on.the other Side, lie -hid no doubt that his the country for US own •consumption. He elanuld
tended that the Government could have no .wisliqa Evvoia It Hen. friend (Sir J. Newport) could. easily not, however, :Peen hard 'upon the Right lion.
frustrate the intentions of the House) and that there b* furuishing a set of naves Gent., as be knew how difficult it was to tax Ireland.