The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-03-10 00:00:00

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doing so, we wet* ess,
a proceeding wait contra'
der these feelings he sh,
ring the .question. No .nji
mthiagth,tabnd estitishecitentrtetcott . produced
shewtheuly a
tstirimfepsoeseb7kilitys
of the measure.
Mr. LESLIE FOSTER cited Robertsqn's
History of Charles the Fifth, to prove thegal.
Wary of the Spanish people, aad contended that
the character of valour and steadiness which they
displayed on various occasions, particularly at Ss'.
regossa and Gerona, fully justified thee* pectationt
which induced the interposition of our Govern-
ment in favour of the Spanish cause. -In support
of such a cause, and the people more materially
interested in its success, he could not hesitate to
afford all the aid in his power, nor could he ever
despair of such a people until they despaired of.
themselves.
General FERGUSON felt it his duty to ex.
press Isis opinion as a military man upon this
occasion. lie could net indeed sit silent, and'
allow the delusion to go forth, that Portugal
could derive safety from the armament reerred,
to in the motion. Ho would put the question to•
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or to any.
Gentleman who had spoken upon the other side,.
whether he serionsly believed that3o,ooo men could
be Wend fit for military service in all Portugali
or rather,. whether cress half that number could. be
produced capable of efficiency ? With every dis-
position to do ample justice to the activity and
skill of his gallant friend (General Beresford),
he thought. it quite 'absurd to .egicidate upon
the formation of such a collie of Purtuinese
any officer could rely upon to act apart from a Bri-
tish force, or to afford any effective aid in the event
of invasion. Upon such an occasion, indeed, the
campaign must he fought by al army composed
of very diffe.rent materials from those which it
would be rational to look for among the Portu-
guese people. The opinion which lae entertained
upon this subject derived additional, confirmation
from sumo intelligence which he had recently re-
ceived from a friend, who had the fullest opportu-
nity of personal observation. In fact, the Por-
tuguese levies were of such a description, , that he
should regret the fate of our gallant troops, if calr
led upon to cooperate with them. Indeed he saw
no use to which such levies were convertible, while
there was too mach reason to apprehend their ten-
dency to produce inconvenience and linger, and
therefore he could not approve of tbeinotionp
Mr. M. FITZGERALD observed, that the
Hon. Gentleman Who sat down fait but one, hail
passed a paoegyric on Spain, without conside‘riug
the present question. If the Pisani/Riese were at-
tachod.to their country, and yet slid 'but resist the
first invasion, what hopes of loyalty and religion
could be expected from them ? surely nut because
they are placed under British Officers. From the
manner in which the Chariceilor of the Exchequer
hest formed his expectations, it appeared. to him as
if his Majesty's Ministers were totally issihrant
of military measures. The only femible one was
that of flanking the French in ; but it
was the front, and not the, flank of the foe
we were to meet. The Honourable Gentleman
wished to know whether, in• the event of re-
moving the Portuguese troops from Portugal,
ie wocatelsestet• tic send them to Ireland. Was
it wished to 'send ItAiman Osikeviic touldiers there?
It was only in the extremes of bigotry Ministers
could 'find security ? [Hear ! hear ! from the
Opposition.]—lie would ask Ministers whether
they had employed transpOrts to carry away our
cavalry from thence? Ito this service otor.mo-
ney would "'be better employed.' It we sent.an
army to Portugal, it must be able to take the field
independently,. and without occlsion for assist-
ance. When he saw Ministers going to commit
extravagances like the present, he thought that this
House should interfere to prevent, the effects of
such insanity. As to any benefit to be derived
frosnthese .levies against the common enemy, he
folly concurred in opinion with the gallant officer
who had just sat down. He had indeed never
heard of any achievement performed by the Por-
tuguese, with the exception of that in which 2000
men, •Iseaded by the Bishop of Oporto, entered
Oporto end took 24 Frenchmen prisoners. ( A
laugh,. and !pear, hear !) The idea of retain.
ing Portugal appeared to him to be quite
merical:—witile our keeping sip a force there was
attended with enormous expence. Indeed he had*
lately seen a military Memoir, presented to Louie
t
XIV. at the time of the contest for the. Spanish
succession, from which it appeared, that our
maintaining a force in Portugal, without advanc-
ing into Spain, was thu very course of policy
which it was fur the interest of the Fr'ench that
our Government should, pursue ; and it would not
be denied that there was a consideralile analogy
between the conduct of that war and the present.
Mr. C. BERESFORD thought he shoutd not
do his dlitY, if he silently passed by a dereliction
of the bravery and exertion of a nation, which.
if we did not assist, its troops must be disbanded.
The Ilon. Getotlemau then mentioned the connec-
tion which. the Emperor of France' is about to
feria, and which he thought could not fail to Jar.
fect the politics of Europe; a...))1 this surely iris,
not a time for us to abandon a faithful ally.
Lord MILT ON approved of an original intser
position ie the CialSe of Spans ; but 'he disapproved
of the conduct of the war, and particularly of the
system now proposed, which would convert us
into principals,' instead of acting merely as atilt.
Hari... la fact, if this system were acted upoth
the Portuguese must rather consider us as fighting.
for ourselves than for them, and what degree of
efficient zeal were they likely to feel in such
contest But, with what prospects or success'
could we, in the present situation of tarries upon
the Peninsula, any longer persevere in such a con-
test? . With the French snider the walls of Cadiz,
and stith all the circumstances in view, how
could- any reasonable man be reemsciltd to vote
a million ot poblic money fur the p►urpose re-
ferred. loin the motion But if success rare VW,
practicable, was it wise to ,vote such at grant fors
elicit an aid ? It had often been the pv3Cice of thi
country tti subsidze 'foreig n trosips
lievedf that it neveri before entered the head of '-
but, Fo be-

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the Spanish nor POrtugiele.people thought
case desperate; but the. Gentlemen on the 'tithe*
aide seemed tuitions to Persuade them and the Pena'
;he of England that it was so. He.wai not, how?
ever, to be influenced by the observations of dint - .
Gentlemen, aid therefore he luald vote fOr true
motion. • .1. .
Mr. TIERNEY spoke agaitist itie Motion, and
proposed an Amendment that the Chairman
should leave the Chair, report Progresa, tad sat
leave to sit gait). . .
Lord DEiART vindicated the eltaraciee ei OA •
Portuguese people, among whom, he -to°tendoti;
there had been many noble displays of gcnuine.ps.
triotism and military spirit. In proof of this, ho
could refer to many Officers who lied kid 'oppor-
tunities of- observation, and partieelarly to
•sir.
Robert Wilson, for whose conduct at the held of •
Portuguese troops, it would be recollected that , *.
there was before the House a noticed Motion fox
a Vote of Thanks.
Mr. BANKES approved. Of the Ainendment
and if it had- not been put, he should not have
hesitated to give a direct negative to the Original
motion. He lamented the state of daetalty and
aintbarrassment in which the House was placed by
this motion-.-but the state was owing to the coo..
duct of Ministers. It must be in thu retnembraeco
of many Gentlemen who heard hiM, that this pro.
ject of a Portuguese levy was first formed id Nu.
vember,. 1808—yet not a word about it was eacti.
-tintted in the subsequent Sessions, nor until verjr
lately, when • the project• situ, it appeared, but , •
very imperfectly carried into sweetie°. : In -fatty:
tho House was called upba to sole to provide ,
for 30,000 men, before en, of that body •
-peered to have been raised. But he could
never persuade himself to assent to Such a,molion ;
aud, among many other reams, for thelatiell. •
which were obvious—first, that,we had snot *mil.. •
lion of money to spare ; and secondly, that if we
even had, this was not the way in which we Ought
to dispose of it. For any efficient petiole of . -
war, he really believed that 3,000 British soldiert •
would .he of more use than 30,000 POelugueles • •
and why then should thecountry be Iturthened.fosthis -
support of such a force ?He very. much sloibted t. •
whether our conduct towards both the Spaniard,
'and Portuguese, was not calculated to induce an.,
opinion among thine people that curl thing
was
.to be doue,for theist, and nothing by !item. • 4 •
would probably, kayo been better if not single
British regiment had been sent to t lid Penintosta, and
that means had been taken to excite these people to
struggle for themselves, than to takes(' much of tho
struggle into our own.hands. Too snitch money,
perhaps,. had been furnished to them. They
ought to have been urged to look to their own ex-
ertions, and if no adequate soirit had existed, they
would have found gold themselves, or crehted
substitute fur it, as was .the age. in the pepolar.
struggles of America aud France. Througlput;'
he thought that the people of Spain and Portugal ,
had. been encouraged toe.rnurb to look to.th4 •
country, and too WO-. its themselves: Thil
was a mischief which, 'as far as .was ptactie4.
tile, ought. to be remedied', But for this poi.
pots the preterit motiou was. Sake-Wetly
because it proposed that we should, betotho .
in the war futa Age qt., Assteguesto •
people into our pay. Where, howeiter,lo weld* •
ask Gentlemen, were the mew; .to be fonod elf,
advancing this payment t • Ile begged itt to hm
considered, that only 125,0001. in gold and silver.... •
could by .any means be procured 10 pay oar,: :
troops in the expedition to Walcheree ; and let,
it be borne in miod, that money must be shat 4;
Portugal ; for that alone. particularly in the event
of invasion, could serve for the payment of, one
military force. Paper would not auswer. In tire
present scarcity of bullion then,. he requested . the
particular consideration of this poini. The enemy
.were now, perhaps,-in the possesston of Catlia,
which in fact escaped immediate capture only
through an accident. All jhe calculam tos of
Ministers were disappointed. Alreheir predictions
were falsificd—eveti that of which they held out
an, assurance so lattrai the 23t1 of January last
was dissipated. The Cortes, which were to be
immediately assembled, had not even a town in
Spain to meet in. The expedition tolValcheren
had failed-4otally failed. In fact, nothing that
Ministors promised was fulfilled—nothing they
speculated upon was. successful ; and was it then
possible, that the Cotnasittee, with such aniplo
and recent experience,. could eouscnt to invest
such Ministers with the means df engaging in any
farther speculations ?
Mr. JACOB contended, that the present site..
ation of Spain was such as to. *hew that all, the
efforts of Bonaparte had fallen far bort of the
total subjugation of the country. ile said that,
disastrous as must he the evils attendant upon ci-
vil. war, they were yet more tolerablk to the
Spanish people th le the atrocities eelee::littlid by
the French from day today, in titter violation of.
every law, human and divine. The effects of this
. system . were so sensible throughout Spain, that
the post
,could not pass without a sonodron to
'geoid it.' France had no other hold of Spain at
present than that of a military. van Rum,. Ho
thought that, under all circumstances, the calico •
was not lbetutlestt; and nut being so, it might bus
productive of lasting mischief to it,, the now re.
fusing the aid that was proposed.- There wait
wisdom in Mowing the fit and seraloosble moottet
of despair; that moment hsd not .yet arrived; and
It was not *int to auticipate it 4 Ile should vote
for the Resoihtton.
Captain PAR'KEit spoke with *rattail( in fa. • •
your of the &etiolation: It had hien •saa-that
the cause was.hOpelliss. •He dented it (a. laugh)
H--it cultic, not bellitsPeless, for while there was
life there was hops lisugh..). He asked if
it became a generous Power like Ragland to stu
don a friend in the moment of &strew ? Gentlemen
argued, that oar esslitance could do no good; but
would not our refusal of dint aSSICAUCC do cond.
derable harm ? The-Portugit4se troops hist been
stready.ahnied, as men on wittiag or !neapuble of
defautling themselies: Put theta Wet "acid Ori. •


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' ..
w- • . , .
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e pot t• encourage 04 MP' :Such t nglish Statesian, to grant su4sidies to a Perin. ,
i contrary to orisials juidoe. Un. gutsy force, to those, tu f.tct;
.itni(mg !alma tit*
ihe should rote rather for defer. materials forlu Arniy could not lie found .
n. No injury could arise from Mr. M. MNTAGUIC obseyrcd, that neither ~
... : - .._ .__..,.. •1... ii.