The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-02-18 00:00:00

Tlig STATESMAN

Crowe, she. found the nation four. /Minims in debt; hot
sow she is free, and ab'e to cope with any Prince upon
earth, a., the Spaniards learned whet they tame to invade
this ronn:ry. As to her nwo private e.xpences, they are
'hut little in bedding; little in pleasure; and as to appa-
rel. she is splendidly attired as becomes her high station,
hat withal not empeasively. She has done away with those
hateful things Purveyors; and the weight of sell:tidies is
now one half what it was in the reign of henry the
Eighth. Therefore it is she trusts that every one of her
sub jests will assist her out of his oe n purse, as it concerns
his own eetete."—Why, he wished to know, were they
not to be a.k-il in that way now for supplies? Would it
not hare been as well had the Right Honourable Gentle-
man told them of some good done—if he had told them,
for instance, that the salaries of Public Officers, which
hail been raised when the currency was depreciated, were
restored to their former amount with the restoration of
the currency?—(Hear, hear.) He meant this observation
to apply to all, bolt high and low, Prince or any other
person. We had the same right to demand the abolition
of sinecures and I erveyors, as Queen Elizabeth had
thought proper to mak- ; and which were now oely main-
tained fur the benefit of the privileged orders. If this
were not done by them, he entreated them to turn their
eves to the proceedings at the different puhlie meetings
throtighont the country, and say if any one could say,
what would he the r salt there depicted of the conflict of
property. Economy was the only remedy. But what
was it that made this difference in the mode of asking
supplies in the time of Elizabeth and the present. In
Elizabeth's time, supply waif a• sacred suhject —it sat
raised for !Odic porpotes.....The House of Common!
bad not then found the way of convening the sup-
plies to their own emolansent.—tHear,liesr, Behr!).
—lt was since that tine that the de t, and the emit ang
mentation of places had occurred, and created pyfron-
age to an enorinoaii exteat never even conceived in the
time of Elisabeth. That patronage had been brought
by the Minister into the House of Commons ; for a
Member asking the Minister to fill up a vacant place,
observing that his brother could fill it as well as any
body else, was bound to all intents and parpOses to give
him his support. Thus it followed that the Minister,
in asking the House to grant the Supplies, was in fact
asking the Members to help themselves. If they had
'any doubt on this point, let them consult the Report
relative to the Receiver General's appointment, where
they would see it 'woolly in evidence, that two or three
Members were sera-tabling for the same place. Then as
to any sympathy leetwizt the Crown and the people,
there was no connexion whatever between them. The
Crown was a grant annuitant on the Minister, not as In
thecase of Queen Elizabeth. They had occasionally
the good fortune to hear that his Majesty was in good
health, or to hear of a Royal excursion or so. hut there
their connection ended. Now what did Lori: Bacon
any upon this 'abject. King James, as it was known,
was more anxious to raise *applies than tit subjects
were to grant them: and upon one occasion it was
thought thit ;ante one had undertaken to get him the
supplies lie wanted. Lord Bacon was then his Attorney-
General, and made a speech to the following effect:
I liave• hitherto remained silent on this matter, In
which I think the House much entrapped, beciu,e I did
not at first midi-rallied what it was. That a private
'man should undertake for the Commons of England;
appeared to toe as seemly as that one should ondertake
for thelour elements; especially,. too, when there be a
New Parliament, the undertaking-appeareth so vast, as
that no men would enter upon in his sober senses. No
man, when be comes in this house, knoweth till he
hear the matter argued, what va(e be shall give.", It is
JiAc h. said Mr. Creevey, to Itßow it for the,sime,
house. As well might a tt an nedertake for ship
essitiettnafte into pot t. Al&cflieteAted -mane. are the
only trt. bold' which his #ejes ',taw bare epos the
Commons, and no other. The•Kinebays. the supply
you have granted me, is a proof °fame affectlin. New-
if thie had been done by. persons pneffid, it would rather.
prove niilevolene^, time any thin else. It werabenter
for his Majesty to call fir a, new ppek otetardeljuie to
play with what are packed." Tete, what Lor4 Bacon
had discussed as a wild imagine, son, had really ante to
pass. That house was paebeil. There were eight-nine
Court cards, and in the Committee these were reckoned
as the sore cards of the pack. The people ought to have
e list of those eighty-nine Members who held offices, and
also of those who asked the Minister of the Crown for
benefits for their families, and these shoofal he excluded •
is all Supply Committees. All that he (Mr. Cresvey)
.could do was to remind them of the that. he thought he
should, tinder these circumstances; be justified in mov-
ing they take the grievances of the people into.consi-
deration before they went to Supply. business. 00 a mo-
tion for a Committee made before the passing
,of the
Bill of Rights. Mr. Secretary Wood had proposed that
the house should go into aConsuiittee to consider of the
, supplies to be voted, and the grievances which-called,
fur redress. This was negatived, bat the addition which
he now wished to make to the present motion he held
to be pet'fectly constitutional. .. He did not oppoie thP
going into a Committee of Supply, but he wished to add
to the proposition In the hands of the Speaker' is
otruction to the Committee to take into their Considera-
tion the grievances of the people.
The Amendment we; 'put ; strangers were ordered 116
withdraw, and.t here walla rush oat of thet gallery, during
whish Mr. Crrevy withdrew his motion. The :Original
question-wee put, and
Mr. Secretary CANNING rose, but from the noise
which Wal made bv'the strangers returning into the gal-
lery, We were unable to catch his words. We understood
him to vindicate the Ministers from the charge of using
any influence in the House of Commons, or, improper
conduct in the expenditure of the Revenue; andito corn-
;eltin of the conduct towards an illustrious petsontige as
ng neither just nor constitutional, considering that
d ring the last two or theee years that illustrious Person-
age had m ide sacrifices iii every department of that 'part '
of the expenditure whitali Wag connected with- bito-
self personally. sea— A
Tie Honourable W. LAMB nialotained, fWalthe *a*
of the Crown Revenue at the • resent time and the dine
'alluded to was no proper subject fur ParliaMentiter dis-
cussion, or if it was to,be made theenbject of thatsdiscue-
sion, he 'saw no advantage to.o4l4olned by going "back
to those times ivhen the powiti4f the Crown Was such,
that the King's officers meditate for'the King's use
any thing in any market in the country. &twee those
times and th- present there was certainly a great differ-
ence; but the advantage watt all on the side of the'preseut.
There had been one naportant.change aioce time Rerulti-
tion. Before that event' the Crown had an'extensive
feudal Revenue solely at its own disposal—but of this the
ordinary expellees were paid, and as demands were made
upon Pat liament only; up in extraordinary cases, the im-
portance of the case itself male them watchful of what
they granted. Now, the Crown hail resigned those Re-
' venues, sod depended wholly upon Parliament f r its
support ; and if the house were tu.raise a doobt of the
-propriety of granting. that support which were necessary,
such conduct would involve a doubt of supporting the
Crown itself (hear, from the Ministerial benches!).
Mr. HUME admitted, that it was very true the King
did not now possess ihe.same feiiil4l power as before the
Revolutisn —Kill William. when he was called to the
Threilv, had V:inetidg.d himself to mike over the Crown
Lands for the 't of the public t and by a Statute of 1
Anne it was ordered, that they should be made. over for
this. porpose • but the fact wet, that the poblid. had lost
by the transfer-=they had now the Whole expiates of the
Crown to pay, and in addition to this, they had fo pay
the expeuce of k:eping io order the Crowe Lamb, with.
ottt deriving any adequate revenue. The eerentie result-

ing to the public from this s niece sh e4O or 50,000.
altar, but then it was who:ly cone fl and swellowed
op in pensions had emoluments to rangers, keeper', and
other office/a [hear, hear! from the ministers. "We
shall have' hear, bear!' by and by, when we come to see ;
what the amount of these sums is, anal to const4er what
'the people will think of them." There was one circum-
stance which had b-en stated in the Report of the Cora- ,
nrittee of Inquiry in 1819—the collection of the ell‘'o,llll
at the' Port of Dublin co:t annually about 84,0001.,
whereas it could be done for 42,0001.; anal the out-ports
of Ireland, e Melt came to 70,0001., might be done for
3.5; amid thus upon ore branch of the revenue a saving of
77, OWL might be effected. Ile meant to submit to the
house a motion respecting the poundage paid on the col-
lection of the Stamp Duties. This cost the country
more than five per cent„ and he was well assure 1 it could
be done for two or two anal a halF.lle was convinced that
there was an influence which prevented economy and *as
sorry that his Hon. Friend had cot persisted in bis mo-
tion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would
not follow the Honourable Gentleman through all the
parts of is speech . He was anxious, however, to offer
a few remarks of explanation respecting tae Crown
Lands. The revenue arising from these lands did not
go to the Crown, or the setrants of the Crown, but was
carried immediately to the general revenue of the court-
try. He himself held no Crown Lands, and he was not
sure that the honourable gentleman (Alr. Hun e) held
any; but this he knew, that of all the Crown
Was the hardest. The leases of its lands being by law
always let to the highest bidder. No doubt an offer of
renewal was made to the lessee, but it was not till a
survey had been made by a sworn surveyor; and if the
lessee refused to accept the offer, then there was no al-
ternative as to the mode of letting. He admitted that
the Crown Lands mud not bring 40,0001. a year ; but it
ought to be bortiein mind, how much of those lands was
in wood, not less than 9,000 acres sere in oak timber for
the use of the Navy, and the taking care of these exten-
sive woods costa very large sum. Independently of this,
'the revenue front the Crown Lands had for the last five
or six years been small; all that was accumulated in
stock, and the annual proceeds as they arose having been
expended i n•the new street (Regent-street.) Very likely
*the Hanoueahle Gentleman would say that this was au
improper expellee; but he (the Chancellor of the Mx.
chequer) would say, that it was done according to an
Act of Parliament; in consequence of which Act, and
with an ulterior view, no doubt, to the public advantage,
the stuns to which he had allu fed hail been laid out to
purchasing the leases of those houses t, bleb stood in the
way. This was, perhaps, in the opinion of the hon. gen-
tleman, a misapplication of the money, but it was a par-
liamentary application.
The Speak-r having left the Chair, the house re-
solved itself into a Conintittee of Supply, whin, upon the
motion of
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, there
were voted
31,000,11001. for the discharge of Exchequer Bills.
12,000,0001 for the Supplies of 1922.
1,440,0001. for certain bills granted for the building of
additional churches.
On the last motion, Mr. WARRE pat a question to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer respecting (as we under-
stood, for disorder in that part of the Gallery where we
were seated made it inaudible), the duty on Foreign
Wines?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
that the Committee on Foreign Trade woald pay due at-
tention to the subject.
The House resumed, and the Report was brought up
and ordered to be received to-morrow (this day.)
The Indemnity and !Vest India Trade Rills were
roski vaecood time, and ordered. to be committed to-
10001roirrx .0:
DISTRIBUTORS OF STAINS.

HL AIE tote to move for certa-n Ileturns ril dive
to the Office of Distributors of Stamps. He trusted the
ekefeippt lie then moved for, would be forthcoming at ao
early period, as it was his intention to ground a subse-
quent tendon upon theta. lisi• was anxious that the
house shoald be put in possession of the effect produced
by the Resolutions of the list Session. It was most ex •
traordinary that the Government, notwithstandieg the
decision of a Committee of that hoose, '6.1 persisted in
giving large allosanees to the Distributors of Stamps,
although there were thousands and tens of thou ands
of responsible persons reit ly to discharge the duties at a
reduction of expense, which would not exceed one third
9f the poundage is:lw paid. In Scotland, he was fully'
persuaded that one-third of the amount now paid would
be considered a very liberal allowance. In Aberdeen for
instance, where front 121. to 14001. was p.aid,'3llof.
tumid he considered a very liberal remuneration. The
Distributor's did little but pty their Deputies, who dis-
charged all the du ies at a per centage of 14, while they
themselves charged the public at the rate of 4 per cent
in England, and 6 per cent. in Scotland. He vaned
'therefore, " That there be laid before the house a re-
turn of the 'mother of Distributors of Stamps in Great
Britain, specifying the names and districts, the amount
of em-iluments and profits, together with an account of
remittances, for the year ending in January, 1623.
Mr. LUSH I NO'f ON did not rise to oppose the motion,
but to state, that when the subject was- brought before
the attention of the house, he should be able to .hew that
the.allowances granted were mote on the calculation of a
fair and just remuneration for the responsibility incurred.
The only fear he entertained was, that the allowances
were reduced below that standard. The motion was
then agreed to.
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