The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-04-13 00:00:00

TtiP ST ATESM AN

74x -"J

The now Duke of Portland, late Marquis of Titchlield,
took toe oaths and his seat, on succeeding to his hereditary
honours.
Messages from the Commons, by Mr. Dickcason,.brought
up two Private Bills.
Mr. Johnson, from the Office of the Chief Eecretary of
'Si de fur Ireland, presented at the Bar a Report of the State
of the Prisons in Ireland.
Lord LIVERPOOL laid on the table Papers explanatory
of some apparent contradictions in the statement of the Army
Estimates. The Estimates specified a vote for 31,000 men,
sold yet the Papers stated the number at 33,000; but this.dif-
ference arose from the circumstance of there being
the regiments in the West India service, which amounted to
18,615 awn.
Lord ROSSLYN observed, that the 60th regiment, one of
thibe. tight to have been officered by British Officers, since
it eras, in point of fact, a regular ailment.
FOREIGN CORPS IN TIIF. PAY OF GREAT
BRITAIN.
Lord KING rose, but not till some time after
the Order of the Day was read. Reverting to the
Act of the 45th of his present Majesty, that Ad
did not (his Lordship said) authorize the powers
which Governmeat Aiad assumed. It was, indeed,
only within the lag ten years—ten short but sad
years ! that the country had never, during that
period, been free from the tread of foreign troops,
and, what was still more, of foreign (generals
holding commands over British soldiers. We owed
this mischief, to say no more of it, to the late
wars. It was, let Noble Lords think as they
pleased, a calamity mach to he deprecated ; fur
the '9th of George .the Second would show them
hat their noble fathers thought in the creut of
such a measure. Expellee also offered another
argument against the mewure. The expellee of
raising the foreign cavalry, numbering 27,000
. men, was 50,0001. ; while the expellee of
174,000 British cavalry did not exceed the sum of
174,C001. . Another objection oceurreth Fo.
reigners, whether Lieutenant-Colonels or Gene.
ails, were on full pay, when natives, of the same
rank, were but on half.pay. The must important
consideration still was the appointment of forciior
officers to command in this country. The 4:oh of
the King applied only to catreme eases ; we were
nut in. any extreme ease al this ; besides,
their Lordships would act wisely were to re.
consider an Act which. had p.:sses! the Iforrse oa
the 14th of July, when the lateness of the Sessiou
precluded that attention which would undoubtedly
.have been paid to a measure of immediate im-
portance, and ultimate cunsequ.asee. Convinced
was he that the extensive powtas given to the King
by this. Act, were neve,- contemilawd by the Le.
gislature. Since the Kinwnight now appriiirt fo-
reign General Officers, what was there to prevent
lain from preferring foreigners to fill the • post of
Commander.in.Chief ? Assort:illy this was, their
Lordships knew, utterly at variance with the older
and better wage of our Government. The lath
tude of the foreign letters of service extending to
Germans, Pules, and Dutchmen, all the subjects
of France, whom each nas bound to lOCTC, 'nas
unwise and impolitic. We were thus increasing
ftie number of those on Whom we could nut Lae-
lessly rely. His Lordship concluded by moving
two resolutions, the iitirpoit of viVielt
.nas—
ThSt the commanders of foreign soldiers here
should be natives of Britain : and that, final:kg
that no less, than five foreign officers now held
commands in the country, it was highly expedient
for the House to adopt such measures as should
restore the usages of better timea.
Lord LIVERPOOL said, that the Noble Lord,
just sat down, had made oat nothing on which to
ground his present motion. The, 45th of the
King was, he would call it, an act of cons:itu.
tional indemnity ; and it was then deemed suffi-
cient to all the ends of liberty, if Parliament was
properly apprised of the number of foreign forces
about to enter the country, Int,l at what time they
catered it. The late scars `:;Li svo:lered the intro.
ductiun of such force unavoidable ; but thew hole
of that. force, throughout the United Kingd:tio,
did not exceed 16;000 men. Constitutionally,
. there could, therefore, be no dir:izulty. The Nu.
ble Lurd had adverted to the lateness of the Ses.
sion at which the Act of the 45th of his Majesty
was passed, a delay which SIAS owing to unfore.
teen circumstances ; but which might have been
remedied in 1806, when the same act was, during
the middle of the Session, actually and delibe-
rately renewed. Ilad Government abused the
latitude thus given to them ? Was there much of
danger in the employment of foreign military
force, when there were uut 5000 of such force Its
these realms ; and when the rest, lighting fur ns
abet:mil •actael aciently and honourably ? As to
the full pay of this feta, was notoceounting.
for circumstances, more than the half.pay .:1* our
own troops ; nor could he see why, on the whole,
foreign salalitqa ahoultl not here enjoy those few
advantages which had been hiokezto allowed to
them. Within • the walls of that house, withlia
the walls of the ether•Hunie, there was not the
man, he would hope, whatever might bu found
without, who felt insensible of the benefit of
availing ourselves, during this conjancture of af.
fairs, of the military service of foreigners. He
must, for his part, resist the motion of the Noble

Lord.
Lqrd ROSSLYN rose principally to hear testi-
mony to the military services of the foreign troops,
tspecially to those of the German Legion, en-
gaged by this country. Scriotisly as he %vas dis-
poseil to dispute the constitutionality of employ.
in; the foreign military, still from what he knew
of their deeds, it would be unpardonable ittiesliee
to them, on his put, if he did not speak of their
military services in high terms. Os iii;. to their
unacquainteduess with our shipping, they had fre-
quently suffered ; they had lost not 'cps Oran 30
officers and 850 privates within some few nianths.
During the battle of Tulavora they 'lost 40 offircis
and 1000 mesa ; ankl yet, without murmuring, they
continued foremost io every danger, and submit.
ting to every difficulty. This he felt compelled ,
now to say. NeithAr was the expense of raising
thorn rightly stated. ; Looking to the Act in ques-
tion, though, as a nalettered man, as one
-ha/AUM in ed Kill!the nivel distinotions of

interpretation. As to the point of employing fo.
reign military aid, averse though he was to it in
system, there were, he must own, circumstances
under whiCh such assistance might, and ought to
be had. -Foreign officers, however, never had in
this country the superior commands ; .either they
acted under our own Lietttenatit.Generak. or else
they were confined to the command of their own
brigades. No foreign► offie.:rs, except acciden-
tally, were otherwise appointed to the command
of British troops.'
Tito Earl of LIVERPOOL rising to explain,
moved, " That the other. Orders ut the Day be

now read."
Lord GRENVILLE rose, and admitted gene.
rally the fairness of the Noble Secretary's state-
ment; although hu could nut help adverting to a
material inaccuracy in that statement. It was true,
that in the ybar 1801, tile introduction of fureigo
troops to this gountry hal been sanctioned under
the Administration of Mr. Pitt. But while se-
rious and legal doubts had arisen on that subject,.
much of the objection was removed by those
troops hav'og been destined to act in the North
of Germany. In the year ISA a similar mea.
sure had been propirt d, in the middle of a Ses-
sion, when the Administration to n hich he had
the honour to belong, felt theinseiteF humid under
all the circniustances of the ease, to adopt it.—
There was indeed no option left, at the period, re-
ferred to, for the Ministers to take. lle could
not avoid on this occasion to repeat what lie had
often before found it necessary to observe in the
of his Majesty's present rs, their
constant disposition upon any particular charge,
not to attetept *their defence upon the obvious
ground of the accusltioti, but to screen and hide
themselves under the sanction of precedents which
they wonkl twist and torture into analogy. Be
admitted the expediency of reta;oilig foreign
troops, under due restrictilus, auil for peculiar
services ; bur fully agreed eith hi. Noble friend
and Relative (Load Kin;), that great eaution was
necessary in the difieeition of tudi troops, and
that great Lircuil,pietion thuuld be used in the
appointment of Commander,
• LordiaIVERMOL isioscal the O. of the
Day, which being agreid to, without dissent, the
adjourned debate, was resumed on the BM for
consolidating the various clauses sur Acts which
inflict capital punishments for oilenees coolmitted
against the revenue. Some conversation took
place, whew it was realmd that, instead Of re.
furring the Bill to a Select Committee, it should
be delivered to an open Committee of all such
Peers am h.td, during the present Sessiou, given
their attendance.
The House then adjourned.

Ifu

OF COMMONS, Arnit.l2.

On the initinn of Sir WILLIAM CURTII, the second
riading: of 'Le 13lackfriars Solidity Toll Ilia owl pumponed
to Tiksday
Mr. JOHNSI'O!: broo :St up an Account of Cowipensa-
r..its tt.e tultoin:hou Oilicere• I
rdttereland,recom-
priice scar the Abolitt.)n rCeb. ul
—Od to oo the

SNItTiIFII:I.I3 ItIAttKET BILL.
Sir C. PRICE moved the second reading of the
Bill for the removal . • the Smithfield Market.—
He made some obst'r li -Jos in defence of the Bill,
and said, that the C. . ration of the City of Lon.
dun was ready to arty clauses that. might
secure fiuni
111x...idermati COM .'E disapproved of the
Bill, h came, as ho contended, it infringed on
the Ch •rter of the City of London. He moied
that the Bill be read this rlay•six months.
Mr. ROSE supported the BA. Ile was con.
winced, that if .the Bill were sent to a Committee,
proof sufficient would be given of the necessity of
removing the market.
Mr. MARTIN thought that sufficient reasons
bad nut been assigned for the removal of the
market. As to the.clatises. that were to be pro.
posed, ho ridiculed them. He eonlidered them
in effect to wake the Act say, if an overgrown
ox came in your. nay, " show me," to make him
g.tt out of it!
Mr. WILBERFORCE likened the present
question to unc that occupied the attention of the
House same years since, namely, the plan fur
establishing penitentiary hoses. All mankind ac-
knowledged the wisdom of that plan, but nu one
could agree as to the places where they should be
erected. So with the market ; all said that the
removal would be boueficial to the metropolis in
general, but it was difficult. to agree as to the
place to which it should be remond. lie called.
upon the House to support the Bill.
Mr. LEE KECK contended for the removal of
•tke, market, as there was a great and grievous
want of rotes in the present market. There was
not a year of his lite that Iv.a L.:id not stiffer ,geeat
loss from the injury that eettle.....hal
that- he I,ad Sent to that market, owing to its'
being so Confined. 1.1.: supported the second
reading.
Mr. SIMEON opposed the removal of the
market, as he thought it would be attene.,d,with
mischievous effects to-the 'inhabitants surreuedlng
the place of the proposed new market.
Mr. JACOB was aware that the Bill had evils,
but he was for the Bill going into a Committee,
in order to find out it they twilit not be remedied.
Sir JAMES SHAW supported the Amend.
men t.
Mr. W. SMITII wished
.the Lill to go into a
Committee. •
Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE spoke in favour
of the Amendment.
Strangers were then ordered to uithdraw, when
a division took place, ,•
For the Ameadmehr - -
'gainst it

- S 7
- 74

• .

Ittnimity 2rtinst the second rending 17
Mr. D. GIDDY 144vetl for leave to bring jo a
Bill for regulating the 'node of allowing the Ac.
counts of Church„ ;miens anti Overwre of the
I'oor,by Justices of the Peace.—Leave given.
-Mr. ROSE -moved, .that the 11911`V, to.trior.
t 4. go into a Committee, to hitt, tonal-
,

stood for tomorrow, respecting the East Indies,
to Monday next. -
MR.IIIINT'S DEFALCATION..
CALCRArr rose. lie had, be said, given.
hotice of two motions, the one respecting the
very reprehensible, conduct of the Board of Ord.
ranee, in not taking security for the fidelity of
gr. Hunt in the responsible situation he filled ;
the other, for the expulsion of Mr. Hunt, as a
Member of that House. The latter motion he
should postpone for the present, as certain docu.
went: necessary to be in the hands .of Ntembr,
were not yet printed." The former motion he
should bring on now, in doing which, he felt it
qnite usinecessary to trouble the House at any
length ; the facts were in themselves so
Sim ple, and
the duty for the House to pass a strong eansete
on the parries implicated, so obvious and so ur.
gout. It 'appeared
.from the General Orders in
the reign of Charles !I that a regulation was -im-
posed upon the Board of Ordnance, by the neg.
lea of which, in the case. of Mr. Hunt, that
Board had been guilty of a great and reprehensi-
ble omission, whereby the public had sustained a
loss of 10,0001. and for whicb, according to
every principle of justice, they ought to be re—
, sponsible. Under the general order to which he
alluded, the Board was bound to oblige the Trea.
surer, before he was allowed to proceed upon the
duties of his office, to find securities for 10,0001.
such as the Board should think eligible, and as
the -Treasury should approve. But although
Mr. Hunt had, for thesecond time, been appointed
to this office so far back as 1807, ho was never
obliged by the Board to enter into any sureties,
and he abieonded from his office,. and left the
country with a deficit in his accounts, as appeared
from toe Ordnance Returns, of 93,29it1. It ap-
peared from the Report on the table, that a letter
had been writt.oi to Mr. Hunt by Mr. Crewe. Se-
cretary to the Board, and dated April 2`2, 1807,
shortly ak-..r tree appointment of Mr. Hunt, re-
quiring hint to enter into Cm sureties prescribed ;
but front that time forth it did not appear, by
any ducument accompanyinz the Relort„ or by
Irby evideoce whatever, that any further slept,
were taker/ by the Board to oblige Mr. Hunt to
give the necessary secoriiies. Now this eas so
i:alpable a breach of duty on the part of tile Boarii,
as it was ill possible to pass by without cimstare,
consistently with any attention to the responsibi.-
lity of public officers trust.::: with tl:e money of
the country. If the Board had any defence to
offer for this flagrant omission, be should be glad
to hear it. lie had searched and enquired for.
a motive in evory quarter, but coal find ionc.—
The Board o:' Ordnance were amply paid for their
own services ; they were an: 13:y aleed by suborai.
trate office's ; ihey sat lot' t,,ve days in A s eck,
and, therefore, could btt: o nu plea of being so
overwhelmed with business as not to have' time to
attend to their duty in •thiti case; iii fact, they
could have no. excuse. There was something lie.
culiarly indulgent in, the conduct of the Board t 9
this Gentleman, Mr. Hunt, on the ground of sure.
ty, fur which he (Mr. Calcraft) was tutaTly at a
loss to account. 'Upon Mr. Hunt'i fist appoint-
ment to-the treverership, in 1603. he was sobered
to remain eighteen months in his office without pro-
ducing his sureties ; and after his second appoint.
pent,, three whole years passer! without obliging
him to produce any. Having stated these facts,
he felt nothing more now necessary than to state to
the House .the Resolutions he had to offer. It
Might be said that that regulation laid down in the
General Order of Charles the Second was only
imperative upon the Master of the Ordnance. But
every one knew, that for a lung series of years the
official management of the Ordnance business de-
volved upon the -Board. At present, he believed
there was no such otilm-r as the Master-General of
the Ordnance ; and he did not mean to impute
the slightest blame to Lord Chatham, who, he be-
ieved, knew nothing whatever of 'the transaction..
The lion. Member then read his Resolutions

as follow •
Ist. Resolved, " That it appears to this House, that Jos.
Hunt, Esq. Member of this House, has been twice Tem-
surer of his Majesty's Board of Ordnance. That he was
nearly 18 months in that Office on his first appointment, in
1803, before any security was obtained; and that on his se-
conil appoiatinent, in 1807, it is not recorded in the Ordnarie'e
Department, that any security whatever was given by hies.
2.." That it appears to tai House, there is a balance ui
93,9.9G1. apinst the said Joseph Hunt, Esq. as late Trea-
surer of the Ordnance.
S. " 'Nat it appears to this House. the Master-General of
his Maieity's Oriliiaticels directed in the original instructiota
of Kitt; Charles 11. under which he and the Bot.rd now Oct,
to take from the Treasurer alma his first entrance on tnee‘e-
cutiota of his place, security to such an amount as he may
judge necessary, and as shall be aporoveil of by tire Itca-
/ury.
4. " That it appears to this house, the sceirity ti!cen in
the first Treasurership of Joseph Haat, Esq. n•sai ly eighteen
months after his entrance on the executiJa of his place, was
10.0001.
5. " That it appears to tl:is House no security was taken*
on the second appointment of Joseph Hunt,
6. " That it is the opinion of this House the slaster43ene-
ral and Board of Orsloance base bee/ guilty of a Breata
1111' Lislcurtions under which they art, and by w:iieh they
ought to be formed, in neglecting to take security from Jo-
seph Hunt, a Member or this House ; and are respo .sible to
answer its to this omission of duty, which. from the state of
the bill:mem a;:aiiist the said Josepk Huut, :I.t.a actually occa-
sioned a loss of 10,0101. to the public.
Mr. ASHLEY COOPER, did not rise to op-
pose the motion of Mr. Calcraft, but merely to
propose two other Resolutions, the one, stat.
ing in substance, that the Board had required
the necessary. securities, and the other granting
kale to slug in a BM to regulate the mode of
granting securities in such cases. lie, however,
thought the Resolutions now proposed rather se.
me, and said that there was no general charge of
suspicion. or 'Olivet' against the Board.
Mr. PONSONBY.ezpressed his astonishment
at the odd sort of defence set up by the Honour:
able Gentleman. 'What had the Bill he proposed
to do with the punishment of past, and utsdessi.
able neglect of public duty ? There was a cle
Wuctlittlisu .autl if jpese Houso would

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