The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-02-11 00:00:00

ect to our In anufacwres, .our exports
increased within the last tear years.

a pervading feeling tnau Inn
vo a:st, wild
advantage: :(Cheers.) So far as I can collect from the com-
munications inade to me, I think that the great body of the
agrialturai class are in favour of a aLodcation of those
laws, (Hear, hear.) There are othqrs, on the contrary,

establishment of manufactures; and the inference is hastily I
and unwisely drawn, that the people of this country must
necessarily be placed on an inferior footing to what they
would be if the price of food underwent a corresponding 're-
duction, and was equalised with what exists there. Now, sir,
I apprehend the question is not what the price of food is, but
what the labouring classes have over the means of procuring
it. (Cheers from the ministerial benches.) Under the opera-
tion of the corn laws . let us compare the condition of the
labouring classes in this country with the condition of the
labouring classes of those countries in which I admit the
price of provisions is greatly less. There is nothing to im-
pede the cultivation of. corn in the Prussian states, and the
price of corn is greatly less than it is in this country ; but
can it be from thence inferred that the condition of the
people in the Prussian states is preferable to the condition of
the people of this country—(hear, hear)?—or that the con-
sequence of an immense reduction in the price of the various
articles of consumption, and particularly in the price of food,
must necessarily lead to a great influx in the comforts and
enjoyments of the labouring claSses - of: the community?
. Sir, these are the means, from sources of unqueStionable
authority, of forming a judgment as to the degree of com-
parative comfort of the people of the two countries I have
mentioned. And- before you determine that a low price of
provisions isoaecessarily essential to the manufacturing in-
dustry, to thp general consumption, or to the comforts and
enjoyment of.the people, it would be well to weigh the de-
tails of the materials of which you are possessed tor drawing
a safe conclusion from them. (Hear, hear.). In the report

of the committee which sat upon the import duties, there is
evidence upon this point—evidence given by the honourable
member for Bolton, whose attention has been directed to this

subject—

—who has collected materials of information and
.:omparison, and who, before the committee, and in the re-
port he made upon the Prussian league, and the state of our
commercial relations with the Prussian states, and the laws
which exist in Prussia with respect to commerce, haS given
information on the comparative consumption of the people of
this country; and of the inhabitants of the Prussian states.
Let no look at the great articles of consumption, and we find
that meat is dearer, and corn is dearer, and the great bulk of
all articles which constitute the subsistence of the people,
and administer to their comforts, are dearer in this country.
But, as I said before, the-tine test is not the comparative
lowness of price, but the command the people have over that
which constitutes the comforts and enjoyments of the great
bulk of the people. I shall begin with meat, and I shall quote
an authority which cannot bp disputed. I shall take my in-
formation from a perfectly unsucpicious source ; it is that of
a gentleman who differs from me as to the operation of. the
corn-laws, and who is a decided advocate for their repeal.
Dr. Bowring's calculations with respect to meal . are these,
and his evidence ,is given in. 1840. He is speaking of a period
when the corn-laws were in operation thirty years, and afford-
ing, as they must have done, if it is their tendency to afford,
the comforts, and, consequently, the means of consumption
of the people. What is the report of the hon. gentleman.
He says in Prussia, and in that country there are means of
ascertaining its exact amount, 14 millions of persons consume
485 millions of lb. of meat, that is, 351 b. per head during the
year for the whole of the inhabitants of Prussia. But the
hon. gentleman says there are 25 millions of persons in this
country who consume 501 b. per head per annum, and it can-
not be less than that. It has been frequently stated at double
that amount, but I will take it at the lowest, and it will ap-
pear that whereas the inhabitants of Prussia consume, ac-
cording to that statement, 351 b. a head, the people of 'this
country consume, at the lowest, 501 b. per head for each of
the population... Now, sir, I will take the article of sugar—
but observe, ram not at all denying the severe distress
which prevails--I was present at the debate last nightrespect-
ing the distress now prevailing at Paisley, and I cannot but
feel a perfect conviction that in many parts of this country
there is much and severe distress. I, therefore, do not mean
to say that the 17,000 persons in Paisley who are supplied
with a livelihood by charitable means consume so much
meat—not I. But it is impossible to argue such a question
without drawing inferences from general facts. (hear.) I
must not be taunted by the remark, that in Paisley, in Stock-
port, or some other places; there is an amount of population
which does not add to the consumption. I admit there is no
such consumption ; but 1 am compelled to draw general
conclusions from general facts. In respect to legislation,
you have no other alternative ; you must deal with general
averages and results. Well, I will now come to the article of
sugar, and I call upon you to pause before yon come to the
determination that high prices are necessarily an evil. I rely
upon the authority of the honourable members opposite. In
France the consumption I take at 51b. ; the hon. gent gives
it ,11b. 30z., but calculating that there may have been some
consumption of sugar made from beet-root, of which he has
no notice, I take it at the highest calculation, viz., 511-
r annum. In the German states he ,
.sumption at 41h. per head, other places in Eurqpe
.file the Conpumption of Great Britain is calculated by
At 171 b. per head per annum. (Loud .cheers.) I will now
take the consumption of corn, of the very article now under
consideration. (Hear.) Mr. Deacon Hume, whose loss we
must all regret,—(hear)--calculated the consumption of the
people of this country at one quarter of wheat for each per-
son ; he calculated the consumption at 25,000,000 of quar-
ters, being ope quarter per head per annum. The honoura-
ble gentleman opposite makes his calculation thus, 21 mil-
lions.of population, and the consumption bf grain 45 millions
of quarters, that is of grain of all kinds. Now, I beg the

house to bear in mind that with reference to the consump-
tion of corn, we have the estimate of consumption of two
geutlewen the best qualified to form a judgment, gentlemen
whose moderation in politics'

them above all suspicion.
. ,
They compared the consumption of this country with that of
other countries in which corn was cheaper. The honourable
gentleman opposite gave a total of 24 millions, and a con-
sumption of. 45 millions of grain—not far from two quarters
from each individual. The gentleman to whom I allude gave
the' consumption of the Prussian states ; there were there 14
millions of inhabitants, and the consumption of wheat was
not more than thirteen millions of quarters ; observe, that is
less that one quarter per head. (Hear.) But while Mr. Hume
calculates the consumption of wheat at a quarter in England.
and nearly so in Prussia, it niu4 be borne in mind that of all
the grain used in that country nearly three-fourths are rye.
The hon. gentleman says that in the States the consumption
of rye to wheat is in the proportion of three and four to one.
He says that the consumption of 1241bs give a consumption
of 651bs of wheat and 2411bs of rye to each individual. That
is to say, that in the 1241b5, the consumption of each indivi-
dual is little more than one bushel instead of one quarter.
The hon, gentleman then goes on to say that in. England the
consumption of tea is as one pound to each person, whereas in
Prussia it is only one quarter of a pound; that in the article
of salt the consumption in Prussia is Ifillbs per head, where-
as in England it is 221bs. Of cotton goods it appears that the
annual consumption in Prussia is as 4 1-3 d to each person,
or about one-half of what is used in England. In woollen
cloths, in Prussia, the consumption'to each individual is in
the proportion of two ells and 1-6th ; in Great Britain it is
five ells and 3 -sths. It appears, in fact, that the consump-
tion is greater in England than in Prussia ;—in tobacco there
it is 31bs : it is only one pound in England. In Prussia the
consumption of butter is 2lbs ; in England llb. But now
let us take other great articles of consumption, simultaneously
going on ; with respect to cotton goods, woollen cloths,
salt, tea, meat, and sugar. Then corn, the consumption of
each individual in each country, as estimated in 1810,
though corn was then high, exceedingly ,high, as compared
with the prices in. Prussia. If I look to the share or com-
mand which the industrious classes of this country have over
the comforts ollife, that command far exceeds that enjoyed
by the same daises in those countries where the prices of
grain exceed so much those of this country. Ido not wisfi
to push this branch of.my argument against our giving an
increased demand over the comforts of life to the industrious
classes,—:not in the least. But, sir, it is an argument to show
that it,is not fair to point at the diminished price of food in
another country as compared with this, and to infer froth that
fact, that there is an inereased comfort thereby secured; and
that, to that extent the people of other countries are better
off. Sir, information has recently been laid on the table of
this house with respect to the consumption of the working
classes in Belgium. Look at the prices of wages in Belgium !
It is said there is a great manufacturing population there,
and certainly there is. In this document I find the average
prices of manufacturing and agricultural labour. Agricultu-
ral labour I find put down at Ild per day, and manufacturing
labour at ls ; masons is 3d per day, locksmiths is 3d; ope-.
ratives in. manufactures, is 31d; ditto in furnaces, &c. is
4d ; jewellers and goldsmiths Is Bd. Now in the last'.year I
find the market price of wheat was at Ostend from 51i 9.c1 to
_ _

53s 4d, and at Antwerp from 51s to 56s 2d, and therefore it
does appear to me, taking the averages of the price of corn in
Belgium, and comparing them, with the wages, that notwith-
standing the manufacturing and agricultural prosperity the
wages in that country do not give the same command over
the enjoyments of lite as they do in this ,country. (Hear,
hear, hear.) Sir, I refer to this for the purpose ofconfirming
my impression that to look.for any rapid or great change in"
the conditon of the people of this country from any change
in the corn-laws, would only lie subjecting it to the greatest
disappointment. (lleal., hear, .and cheers.) My firm belief
is (I am speaking now of those who are in favour of the ab-
solute repeal of the duty on corn), that if this house were to
consent to a total repeal, the effect would be, instead of miti-
gating,..even in the slightest degree, permanently at least, the
manUfacturing distress, it would superadd to it by the se-
verest disappointment, (Cheers from the ministerial benches.)
Any Such 'disturbance of the capital of agriculture would in-
evitably lead to fatal results,
_toot only to agriculturists, but
also to those other classes whose prosperity is essential to
the welfare of the country. There is, however, another por-
tion of this house who advocate a material alteration in the
corn-laws, and who do not go the length of advising a total
arid absolute repeal, but merely the substitution of a fixed
duty for the duty as at present imposed. With respect to
these the ground is narrow which we occupy. They are in
favour of a fixed duty on corn. They admit that agriculture
is entitled to protection, and, therefore. would impose a duty
invariable in amount on the importation of foreign corn.
(Hear.) Now with.respect to this proposition it must be re-
membered that whatever odium attaches to a variable duty
it must necessarily 'apply with equal force to the imposition
of „.
fi;:ed duty. (" No" from the opposition, and cheers
from the ministgialpenohes.) lam sure the hon. gentifonan
who says no does not prideystand me. lam not saying that
the same objection applies to a fixed 44y 4s to a variable
duty; I am only saying that as far as odium attaches to the
imposition of a tax on the chief article of subsistence it ap-
plies equally to either proposition. (Cheers.) Both the one
and the other assume that agriculture is entitled to protec-
tion, either on account of the burdens to which it is subject,
on the ground of public policy; but on principle, the irn-
Rion of the duty rests upon the same ground, and on the
umetits. (Hear, hear.) After giving the fullest
tion to the question of a fixed duty. I cannot realm-
.; an amendment to the present scale of duties.
' Hear, bear.") Ido not think that you can de-
rimount.of fixed duty during an average year of
that would apply to all years (bear, hear),
ideration the important question as
ry being capable, from its own

as it a:

if ynn will take into
to the probahlity of

wants 'of ear owu poptdation.
1 am not prepared to admit that this country is not able
to
meet those wants. (Hear, hear.) At the same time I will
admit that if we take the last four years into consideration
it would be shown, that there was an average of foreign corn
imported into this country of 2,300,000 quarters in each of
these four years. (Hear, hear.) .if they also took the last
twelve. or thirteen yelp it would be seen that the quantity of
foreign corn imported into. this country during those years
was from 12,000,000 to 13,0:10,000 of, quarters. (Hear.)
1:1,,,t is the fmant;r.. imnarrprl rinrine the entire of those

growth of corn, of me

4.- LI za yua,E6lLy !input-um
This skiewn by a return which I hold in my hand,
from which it appelzrs, ih4t from July, 1828, to June, 1841,
the quantities of. wheat.and-‘iheat flour imported into this
country from foreign countries, amounted to i 3,475,909

has been a demand for foreign corn, but in six years out of
the ten the productions of the country have been sufficient
for the consumption of the people; and 1 am not, therefpre,
prepared to admit the conclusions that there must ne-
cessarily be a periodical annual-importation of foreign Corn
for the supply of this country. In determining, therefore,
the duties which should he levied on corn, we should take
care to provide for periods of comparative abundance and
comparative scarcity, as well here us in other countries. .Six
years of good harvests may occur in this country, when the
produce would be amply sufficient for our own consumption ;
if such should be the case, what he feared, supposing the
enactment.of a fixed duty, would be the unlimited right of
import, which would be given at a certain amount of duty,
which could always be maintained, and which would sub-
ject the agricultural producers of our country to the great-
est distress and injury. (Hear,- hear, hear.) A similar
result would be produced at periods of scarcity. when the
greatest misery might prevail ampngst,the population. It has
been observed by writers ,of great .authority that favourable
and unfavourable harvests recur' in certain cycles, and we
shall find, if we look back at the protractions of former years,
that though perhaps a year of -abundance followed a year of
scarcity, yet we may 'find five or six years of comparative
• abundance followed by five or six-years of comparative scar-
; city ; and under such cieenmstances the effect of a fixed.duty
on corn would be at all times, and under all circumstances,
to admit of the importation of foreign corn in this country,
and the inconvenience of such: a result may easily be seen.
The periods of favourable harvests, it will be found, also
generally correspond in this Country and in those countries
from which we obtain, when we require it, the principal sup-
ply of our corn. The great producing countries of Europe
lie under about the same latitude, and are affected generally
by the same causes; and it is proved, for the most part, that
an abundant harvest in this country is conteMporaneous with
an abundant harvest abroad. The consequence is, that when
there occurs a great abundance of corn, by a sudden addition
to the quantity in this country, the price is affected very dif-
ferently from the degree which would be inferred from the
actual amount in th country. (Hear, hear.) It is stated
by Mr. Tooke, in his work " On Prices," that. "the price
varies in its ratio very different IV from the variations in the
quantity in the country, but the variation is greater in the
price of corn than in other. articles of extensive consump-
tion." It is also remarked by the same author, that on a
comparison between the deficiency and abundance of har-
vests in4this country and in others,:it will be seen that abun-
dance here is generally contemporaneous with abundance in
those countiies from which we chiefly derive our supply;
and therconsequence therefore would be, that in a time of
sufficient production here by the imports from abroad there
would be an increared discouragement and loss to the pro-
ducer of corn in this country. which he would consider and
deprecate as a very great evil.. It is argued that the con-

sequence of imposing a fixed duty would be the pre-
vention of those alterations ; that although it would be
very difficult to maintain a fixed duty in a period of severe
scarcity, yet that the tendency of that law would be to pre-
vent scarcity, arid a recurrence of those deficiencies, which
we admit it is difficult to prevent. (Hear, hear, hear.)
Now I must say that all experience appears to we to prove,
that, with respect to corn, there are such fluctuations in its
price, on account of the variations in the seasons, that it
would bt impossible for you to take any precautions by legis-
lation against that alteration in price—(hear, hear, hear) ;--
that no law that you could pass permitting the free importa-
tion of corn at a fixed duty would, in case of a deficient har-
vest here and on the Continent, prevent the rise of price to
Such a point that a fixed duty could not be maintained. Take
the United States. They are not subject to the operation of
the corn-laws, yet there you will find, on account of the
fluctuations in the seasons, great fluctuations in price; fluc-
tuations as great as prevail in this country. (Hear, hear.)
In Prussia you will find that with respect to rye, a species of
grain not affected by the corn-laws, on account of the fluc-
tuation of the seasons, as great fluctuations in price as in the
price of wheat in this country subject to the operation of
the corn-laws: And in point of fact, that as the fluctuation
in the price must necessarily depend so much on the vicissi-
tudes of the seasons that no laws you could pass, restricting
comercial intercourse, could guard you against high prices in
severe seasons. If there be that high price, will you be able
to maintain your fixed duty ? (Hear, hear.) If the fixed
duty be Bs. or 10s., and if your interposition by legislative
enactment does not guard against the rise of price, if scar-
city takes place, and the averages rise to 80s. or 905., I retain
the impression I stated in the course of last session, that no
government could undertake at such a period to enforce a
duty of Bs. (Hear, hear.) If that is admitted you must

make some provision for the relaxation of that duty. If you
entrust the power of relaxation to executive authority, you
introduce uncertainty into, the operation of the law ;- yon

give a power capable of being greatly abused—(cries of
" hear, hear."—and you destroy altogether that confidence
in the permanency of your arrangement, which you rely on,
for the encouragement of commercialenterprise. Therefore,
with reference to a fixed duty, both as applicable to a
state of abundance FS to a state of scarcity, I have come
to the conclusion -.(after ci41341 considering this. subjectl-
that it is not advisable for parliament to alter these laws'
on the principle of the application of a fixed duty. (Cheers.)
The alteration of the law which I shalt propose will proceed
on the principle of retaining a duty on corn, varying in
amount with the price of that article in the home
.market ;
that is the yn-inpinh, of the existing law. The maintenance

of that principle
It is said there would be a great
altogether the system .of averages. It is quite true that it
might be competent for me to abandon the present system ;
but with respect to the imposition of a duty on corn, you
must maintain the system of averages—because the annual
payment on account of tithe is founded on calculations con-
nected with it. It does, therefore, appear to me that, as
averages must be maintained for. the purpose of tithe compo-
sition, it would not be expedient to adopt any other system of
averages, materially varying in principle for determining the
duty on corn ; and I say that if you determine th

em of avers

mount

of duty by the system of averages, it.would be inconvenient;
to have two systems prevailing at the same time with respect•
to corn and tithe,
while it would be unjust to depart materi-
ally from that system on which the averages with respect to
tithe is founded. There is a very general impression through-
out the country that a great deal of fraud has taken place
With respect to the averages. (Hear, hear.) There. is a very
general impression, particularly on the part of the agricultu-
ral body, that there have been, either great frauds . with re-
spect to the averages, or very extensive cornbinations entered
into for the. purpose of intluenping the averages, and pro-
curing the rates of corn to be made at a lower price than they
ought. (Hear, hear.) lam not prepared to deny that such
combinations may in some • eases have been entered-into,
nor that in some cases such frauds have been committed ;
but I very much doubt whether they have been practised to
any extent, or to the amount that has been generally
supposed. It has been supposed, that generally speaking the
returns for London have unduly,,, influenced. the averages.
It has been generally supposed that in Leeds, Wakefield, and
in other.parts.of Yorkshire, great and successful combinations
had been entered into to influence the averages. Sir, as I
said before; these impressions may 'not be altogether without
foundation,- but I believe that they have been greatly exagge-
rated. If I take the averages.of the kingdom for six weeks
in 18-10-.-7 if. I. take. the averages.of the kingdom for the 6th,
13th, 20th, and 27th of August, and the 3d and 10th of Sep-
tember, 1849, the average for the, whole of these six weeks
was 735. Id. as the price of wheat. If, sir, I exclude the
London market the aggregate general average would be 72s 8d
in place of 73s Id. If I exclude York the general average
would be 71s 10d. These are, sufficient, under particular
circumstances, peculiarly to affect the case ; and it may pos-
sibly be argued that in London the prices may be mainly in-
fluenced. It is. difficult to estimate the effect upon other
markets; it is extremely difficult to form conjectures on this
subject, hut as far as we can judge frnm figures, 1 think that
the apprehension that extensive frauds exist in respect to the
working of . the averages, tbOugh not altogether unfounded,
has been greatly exaggerated. (Hear, hear,) The difference
of the aggregate average, excluding London would be is 3d;
if London, Leeds, and Wakefield were excluded, there would
be a difference of is 10d in the amount of average. That
difference might affect the amount of duty ; but the price of
corn in London is usually higher than elsewhere—therefore
there would be no imputation, if I find this the case in Lon-
don, of fraud—it would afford no necessary inference of
fraud. Then again, the London averag6s quantity exceed
those.of the.country. For instance, in the year 1838, taking
the weekly averages from the 13th of August to the 7th of
September, the weekly average was
.735. Exclusive of the
London market there would be a further difference. In the
year 1840 the aggregate averages bet Ween the 24th July and
20th August was 70s 2d ; the-average excluding London was
70s. 'lld t now _that. difference .makes a great .dl"

rence in

the amount of duty—the dots on the aggregate average of
70s 2d is 2s 8d; and the.avw4ge,ineluding-London, would
raise the duty on the 'price of- corn to to Bd. ' But, as I
said before, I do not infer fraud from excluding London.
Various proposals have been made with respect to the amend-
ment of the law of. averages by various part

and those

proposals have received the utmost consideration from her
Majesty's government. I think there will be a general
agreement in this, that whatever system may be devised,
fraud shoal:l;as far as possible, bc excluded.. It is advised
by some that the returns should be made by the growers---,
thatthey should make the returns connected with the aver-
ages a proposal has been made, that it is necessary the
growers, and the growers only, should make these returns.
Now, sir, it is impossible to adopt such a principle or system.
At present Irish corn and Scotch corn are admitted into, the
averages. It would be impossible, therefore, to exclude
Irish and Scotch corn from the averages, because this would
have a natural effect in raising the prices of corn. This, I
must say, that I think we ought to guard as far as we can
against fraud, but I do not think we ought to attempt to in-
crease protection by ,any indirect operation.• If, sir, I
thought that a certain amount of protection was-requisite, I
would make it directly and openly ; but it would not be fair
to procure an indirect protection and encouragement for our
domestic agriculturists by any-alteration with respect to the
averages, except with a view to prevent fraud. Various al-
terations in the law might be made by which the averages
might have the effect of rendering it impossible to guard
against fraud ; but I say tbat for the purpose a granting any
direct protection for the agricultural interest, I will not be
a party to a proposal of any sideli nature. (Cheers.) It has
been suggested by some, that the seller should be required,
under a penalty, to make a return of the corn sold by him..
Sir, it is difficult to foresee what would be the effect of an
enactment like that requiring
.every farmer, under a penalty,
to make a return of the quantity of corn sold by him, and
its price, instead of its being made, as at present, by the
factor. I conceive the great security and only effectual

remedy is to bring the temptation so low as to give no
colour for fraud by an. adjustment of the protection to be
afforded. (Cheers.) The, proposal of her Majesty's govern-
ment, therefore, with respect to the taking of the averages,
will be thus. They will propose to take the averages in the
Prese4t made, fFOni the factPr, or the purchaser,
the same party who now real es er return at the Obse of each
market day of the whole of the purchases made by him dur-
ing the week. We see no advantage in departing from that
principle, trusting that the alteration to be made in the mode
of levying the duty will effectually prevent fraud. We shall
propose that that the duty of, collecting the returns shall be
devolved upOn the excise—a 'department which is perfectly
competent to the. due discharge of the duty. They have an
officer employed in each market town—an officer perfectly
qualified for the duty by being in the regular discharie of higher
and more onerous. ones—qualified too by his general habits
Of basiriiss, and the responsibility attaching to him by his
,being a public officer and thereby giving a greater security