The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-04-19 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN

HOUSE OF COMMONS—FRIDAY.
Mr. DICKINSON presented a petition from certain
Clothiers in Somersetshire, against some Clauses in the
Warehousing Bill.—Laid on the table.
Lad CRANBOURNE brought up the Report of the
Committee on the Game Laws, and signified his intention
to bring it under .;:e consideration of the House on
Thnrsday next.
The Report was then, on the Noble Lord's motion,
ordered tole printed.
Sir G. CLERK presented a petition from the Ship-
owners of Leith, aktatnst any alteration in the West India
Sugar Trade.—Latd on the table.
Mr. RICARDO presented a petition from the Herit-
ors and other I ultahitants of the county of Fife, praying
fur the remission of the duty on Stone carried coastwise.
—Laid on the table.
Mr. IIYNG presented petitions from the pariah of St.
Giles, and other parts of Middlesex, against the Coal Du-
ty.—Laid on the table.
CATHOLIC CAUSI.
Gen. GASCOYNE said that, seeing the Right Hon.
Gent. (the Attorney-General for Ireland) in his place, he
wss anxious to ask him whether it was his intention to bring
forward again. in the present Session, the measure that
wos before the House last night. It was at present, he be-
lieved, to he consldered as an adjourned question.
Mr. PLUNKETT (having spoken in a low tone frogs
the gallery) was understood to say that the question was net
at all to be-considered as an adjourned question. Such
d-cision, at least, had been come to, that it would be oeces-
sort , by the rules of the House, to give a fresh notice, in
order to bring it again under discussion in the present Ses-
sion. It was not clear to him that he should twain move
the questi .n this session. lie was, howevo, only trustee
for the friends of the measure, and he should feel himself'
bound to be governed by their opinions. But, as far as he
could at present learn of their sentiments; he was not In-
clined to think he should renew the discussion.
Gen. GASCOYNb said that his motive for asking the
question was, that, if the Measure were to be again discuss-
ed, the attendn nee of Members might be insured.
A MEM HER, whose name we could not learn, addressed
the Chair. hot Mr. CALCRAFT rose to order, and depre-
cating discussion, and if the lionourab:e Member should
speak, some other Member would rise to answer his obser•
widens.

GEMARA!. MUMMA ACT.
Mr. FR ANKLAND LEWIS moved that the House re-
solve itself into a Committee an the above Act.
After a few words from an Hon. Member,
Mr.-F. LE%VIS said he wished to put the Bill through
the Committee then, but would let it go before a Commit-
niittee op stairs, when the clauses might be more minutely
examined.
The Bill was then committed, and the Report was re-
ceived and ordered to be taken into further consideration on
Monday nest.
The Rill was ordered in the mean betels) be printed with
the amendments.

ZING'S Linßear.
Sir C. LONG brought up the Report ofthe Committee on
the King's Library.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said he did not then mean to go into
any discussion on the recommendation of the Committee,
but he took that opportunity of giving notice thet when the
question came before the Heide, be *mild stMe the reasons

why he was of opinion that tba'aiditlon.of the Royal Grant
to the British Museum was a most unadvisable disposition
of it.
On the motion of Sir C. LONG, the Report was ordered
to be printed.
NAVAL AND MILITARY PCWRIONS. DILL.
The CIIANCELLAMt of Ike EXCHEQUER moved the
third reading of the revel end Military Pensions' Blii.
Mr. GRENFELL opposed it. He contended that the
arrangement was unwise and unnecessary. If there was any
necessity for the sale of those annuities, he could not con-
ceive why they should be sold for more than one year.
Mr. MANNING defended the measure.
Mr. PF.A RCE defended the Bill.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected to it, as a measure in-
jurious in many points of view.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the ar-
guments of the Hon. Member for Penrhyn and the lion. Ba-
ronet, had been often refuted before. The question was
merely whether the bargain at the time was unprofitable or
not? The rate of 41. ts. was a reasonable rate of interest
for five years.
Mr. HUME, after some observations, moved as an
amendment, that the Bill be read a third time that day iii
months.
Mr. MABERLY seconded the amendment.
Sir JOSEPH YORKE wished to ascertain what provi-
sion was made for those who every day were coming upon
the Half-pay, the Pension, and Annuity List.
Mr. RICARDO inquired If the Bank were to receive any
consideration fer the management of the plan.
Mr. HUSKISSON said that it was not to receive any
coamensation.•With retard to the danger apprehended
from the Bank having the power of dealing in the pub-
lic funds, that power- had been in their bands for 150
years, and the hest proof that no ill consequences were
derivable, was the iguerance of lion. Gentlemen on the
point.
Mr. H. GURNEY Opposed the Bill.
Sir FRANCIS BO UM observed that he could not
say whether the prineiple of this Bill was objectionable ,
or not, because its greatest fault was the total lack of prin-
ciple.—(A laugh.)—The evil which it would work, how-
ever, was of a less equivocal nature. This was apparent
to every one, and its ramifications were so open to discus-
sion, that the root of the mischief could not be kept
back.—(Laughing )-111e knew not whether it was a
worse measure than the Sinking Fund ; they were
both bad enough. Having so often before given an
opinion on the merits of the Sinking Fund, he would not
now repeat it. He should content himself then in using
these emphatic words in allusion to its existence.—" De-
lenda est Carthago."—(Loud laughing )
Mr. MONCK spoke against the Bill.
A division then took place, when there appeared—
For the Bill, 140 ; g ain't it, 90 ;--Mioority 50.
• The Bill was then read a ihird time and passed.
ROMAN CATHOLICS.
Lord MILTON presented two petitions from the Cler-
gy of the Diocese of York, in favour of the Bill for
the relief of Roman Catholics.—Laid on the table.
PORRION POLICY.
Mr. J. MACDONALD rose to give notice that he
would avail himself of the earliest open day for bringing
forward a motion respecting the pipers which had been
lately laid upon the table, having fur its object probably
an Address to his Majesty. His wish of making himself
master of the contents ofthese papers, induced him not to
bring on the motion too soon, and besides, he observed
that every day in the sleet week was devoted to some im-
portant subject. He would, therefore, fix upon Monday
se'unight, and he hoped Gentlemen opposite would not in-
terpose any thing else in the way of so important a
motion on that night. Being upon his legs, he wished to
Iput a question to the Rt. Hon. Gentleman opposite. In
the other House some additional papers relating to our
foreign policy had been laid upon the table. He wished
to know whether the Right. Hon, Gentleman was dispos-
ed to produce these pipettfote amsppleinent to those al-,
ready produced to this Boast., or whether he would wail
until he (Mr. M.) made a motion upon the subject.
Mr. Secretary CANNING assured the Honourable
Member that his motion should meet with no obstruc-
tion from him. As to ther.supplemental papers, he (Mr.
C.) would take it on himself to make the motion fur their
production.
Mr.. COKE presented a Petition from the farmers and
growers of barley in the vicinity of Norwich, praying a
modification of the duty on malt; and for the adoption of
viemares to encourage the growth of barley.
After some words in support from Mr. WODEHOUSS
and Mr. Alderman WOOD, the Petition was ordered to
tie upon the table, and be printed.
TITHER.
General HART presented a Petition from the County
of Donegal, in favour of a Bill for the Commutation
of Tithes.
Lord MOUNTCHARLES regretted that be was
obliged to differ from the prayer of this Petition.—Or-
dered to lie npon the table, and be printed.
Mr. BROUGHAM, in the absence of an Hon. Friend
of his, the Member for Lincoln (Mr. Williams), gave
notice that on the 2d of Maybe would move to extend the
provisions of the statute of Queen Anne, which allowed
Quakers to give evidence in Courts of Justice by affirma-
tion instead of upon oath in civil cases, to criminal pro-
ceedings. •
Mr. HUSKISSON moved that the Merchant Vessels
Apprentices' Bill be read a third time.
Mr. RICARDO opposed the Bill. He thought it an
unwarrantable interference with private rights. • H.
moved that it be read a third time that day six mouths.
Sir I. COFFIN spoke in favour of the Bill.
Mr. HUSKISSOS said the Bill was a measure of re-
lief and protection,
After a short discussion the Bill was reads third time.
After some observations from Mr. RICARDO, Sir 1,
ISAAC COFFIN, and Mr. CROKEIt, the clause was.,
agreed to.
Mr. HUSKISSON proposed a clause to exempt the
le/tusk.• of apprentices in merchant-ships from stamp
duty ; which, after some observations from Mr. 0. BIM-
NET, MY.MARRYATT, and Mr. BRIGHT, was also agreed to.
misdelitaegotts RSTINIATCS.
Mr. LUSHINGTON, in a Committee of Supply, PrO-
posed a vote of 4491. for defraying the repairs of Henry
the Seventh's Chapel. '
Mr. HUME, before he gave his assent to the vote,
wished to know if any means had been adopted to focal.
lute the entrance into Westminster Abbey. The monu-
ments there, which were the objects of the public curio-
sity, were erected at the expense of the public, and that
public ought in justice to hare free admission to see
them ; instead of which they were obliged to pay two shil-
lings. It was disgraceful to this country to throw such
ditheultirs either in the way of imprisonment or gratify-
ing the public curiosity, while foreign countries afforded
evercilit in the saine circumstances. Persons onght
to by efa
allowey d to attend an •I point out to strangers every
thing worth seeing, and if the Dean and Chapter were too
poor to allow such persons, he would have no objection
to agree to a grant for such a purpose.
Mr. LUSIIINGTON said that perhaps the Honour-
able Member was not aware that the perquisites of
two shillings was the private emolument of an indivi-
dual, who had purchased the office from the Dean and
Chapter.
Mr. CROK ER said that he doubted much th.e legality
of exacting fees in chapels. When first the Cathedral
was built, being a chapel, it was always open, and he was
not able to find any authority which sanctioned the shut-
dng up of our churches. It was certainly a freehold pro-
perty, and the parson bad power over it to that extent,
which he believed went no farther than keeping the
lehurch in proper repair; bat he did not think it was legal
to raise any money from the subject for admission. tie
donbtesi much if the Dean and Chapter were legally au-
thorised in cutting down the trees, which bad •been

*hated, fig the sake of ornament, tit more than 50 years,
for the paring of making a few pounds by letting out
seats for thetoronation.
Mr. WHIM ERELL said that be did not wish to see
this creation pushed to a legal extremity, because, what- I
ever advantages might be gained on the one side, perhaps
it would be more than balanced by the amount of evil on
the other.
Mr. W. SMITH, as we understood, said that he dis-
approved of the system of exacting fees on such occa-
sions.
Mr. HUME said that the question wart a simple one.
The Dean and Chapter either had or had not a right ; if
they had not, no compromise should be made, however
well such a mode of settling it might suit lawyers. If he
was supplied with money he could engage to set the
matter going; and if it should be decided in favour
of the Dean and Chapter, there woeld be no great
difficulty in purchasing their right; they would sell any
thing, for already they bad converted stones and trees
into money.
After some further observations from Mr. LUSIIINOTON,
Mr. WYNN, and Sir J. NEWPORT, the Resolution was
agreed to.
A epte of 10,0001. was proposed to defray the expenses
of repairing the College of Edinburgh.
Mr. HUMP., in objecting to the vote, observed that it
was a new feature in the estimate accounts to introduce
pictures. In the present theriwere four very ordinary cuts
which, while they did not add much to the information
of the Members, were attended with an unnecessary ex-
pense, and he, therefore, hoped that be should see them
no more.
After a few words from Mr. LUSIIINGTON, Mr. W.
SAUTE, and Mr. W. Duteous, the Resolution was agreed
to. . •
12,8471. was voted to defray the expenses of the Works
of Portpatrick.
A vote of 25,0001. was proposed to defray the expenses
of the Works of the Caledonian Canal.
Mr. HUME said that he regretted to see the House
called upon for a second grant. They had already grant-
ed 40,0001., which they were told would answer the pur-
posed, and notwithstanding they were now called upon for
25,000!. more, and were told that 20,0001. would be ne-
cessary to complete it, though he believed all this money
would be thrown away, as the canal would, in the end, be
of little use.
Sir H. PARNELL said that the Honourable Member'
had fallen into an error with regard to the votes. Mo-
ney was first voted for opening the canal, and the'
money now called for was completing it. The Ho-
nourable Member would see that the opening and com-
pleting a canal were quite distinct. He disagreed with
the Honourable Member in thinking this canal would be
of little use, for already a considerable traffic had been
carried through it. The Honourable Member here de-
tailed the number of vessels which had plied on the
Canal since it became navigable, and stated that it facili-
tated the means of conveying flax from the coast of Ire-
lead to Aberdeen, and its neighbourhood.
Mr. HUME said,that in his opinion 25,0001. would be
amply sufficient for the purpose. The whole line of coun-
trr through which the canal passed, consisted of nothing
bin rocks and heaths.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT supported the vote, as did also
Mr. SUITE, who observed, that when so large a sum had
been expended already, it would be bad economy to stop
short for a small sum.
Mr. BENNET said that great promises had been held
oat, but there was no performance. He thought that be-
fore any further sum was granted, the House ought to
see how long it would be before the work was finished.
He was ready to give any sum in reason that might be
required, but the whole question was. when would it be
exedient for the House to stop. He felt quite satisfied,
that had it not been for the steam-tessels, the SLURS al-
ready expended would have been thrown aWay.
Mr. HUME desired to know what sum would be re-
quired to complete the undertaking? •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 'mid, that
according to the estimate, 25,0001. would benecessary for
the next year. lie thought that sum ought to be granted,
i no more, unless with the understanding that the
work was to be finished, on a certain specified sum being
granted.
Sir H. PARNELL and Mr. W. SMITH said a few
words, after which the vote was agreed to.
Mr. LUSHINGTON then moved that a sum not ex-
ceeding 5,2001. be granted to defray the expenses of build-
ing a new Court for Insolvent Debtors.
Mr. HUME wished to know if this sum would be
sufficient to cover all expenses ?
Mr. LUSHINGTON replied in the affirmative, and
the notion was then agreed to.
The following votes were next agreed to, after a short
conversation across the table:-
20,0001. for Building the new Courts in Westminster-

hall.
24,926/. for the Establishment on the Gold Coast, in
Africa.
5,214!. for the Alien Department.
IS,OOO/. to make good the Awards of the mixed Com-
mission for carrying into effect the Abolition a the Slave
Trade; and
10,700/. for Paying the Salaries of the Commissioners
ander the Treaties with Spain and Portugal, for prevent-
ing the Illegal Traffic In Slaves.
150.0001. for Bills drawn or to be drawn on New South
Wales for the year 1823. •
2,44'21. to defray the Expenses of t7olonial Services,
which were formerly paid out of the Extraordinaries of
the Army.
6,2501. to be given as Compensations to the Commis-
sioners for inquiring into the Collection and Manage-
ment of the Revenue in Ireland.
5,000/. to the Refuge for the Destitute.
3,5971. to defray the Charges of the Bahama Islands.
4,5221. for the Citirges of the Civil Establishments at
the Bermnda Islands.
6001. for Dominica. .1
1•232./. for Upper Canada. •
13,14 W. was voted to defray the Civil P. stablishment in
Nova Scotia.
6,1571. was voted for the like purposes in New Bruns-
wick.
3,3271. was voted for the like purposes in Prince Ed-
ward'i Island.
• 15,1221. for the same purpose in New South Wales.
The other resolution were then agreed to, and the re-
port was ordered to be received on Monday next.
COURIER Newsnese.
Mr. GREY BENNETT said he wished to notice a
statement in the Courier newspaper of that night, as two
holydays would intervene before the meeting of the
Haase. The Courier paper had thought tit with its
usual impartiality, to give an account of the unhappf
difference of last night of the most unfair kind, and cal-
culated to raise again the feelings of the parties. Ile
was anxious to take that opportunity of saying that ac-
count must have proceeded from a heart the most malig-
nant, and as the person (whosoever he he), who wrote
that false and scandalous account, • well knew from the
report in another part of his own paper, that the fact was
directly the reverse of that which he had given.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at One o'Clock.

The decaying state of the salmon fishing in the Clyde
is strikingly contrasted with the prosperous state of the
fishings in the Peon at Ayr.. During the month of '
March one dealer in Glasgow sold for his own part 165
fish, weighing 1,12111 b., from that river. Prices of Doon
saltion on an average ran abont 6d. per lb. less than they
did last year at this time.—(Gliegow paper.)