The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-02-28 00:00:00

r 'A'
e" *sit dent—that the de clew.
,aweown
Ihr made food kV end where the•
rtritine, there ahnold he so.ne.other,ntearts de
d acknowledging the treat meeitorinna vendee•
Be men. This was the prineipin which he (Mr
), always adheres, to. and. he believed he wa•
turret in stating, that upon age Dewlap, when
rioeiple wit contested. the lion. Member (Nit.
tr) lOW with "11. The very last time he was
▪ to the late Mr. Perceval was ppon one of these
a few weeks only before his death;. he (Mr.
bylined he load she a.tistance of the Hon.
et (Mr. Creerey.) Meant then was the consist•
of the Hon. Member in maintaining that that
ahemisable emirate which he birnaelf had in
moaners towelled ? The lion. Member seemed
to aphold the DoleT of Mr. lintke's conduct
retard to the oil of 174 i paid yet nmehere
here shown s crests, reverence for vested rights
hp Or. Rorke on that eery occasion. He (Mr.
,) protested against tit, course pointed by the
tirsderean, for he left it to he propagated and
ate of, as no donht it ifis at certain meet-
forth, pullout of i pig the minds of the
lark, that the nation spa pftyr, paying to certain
pen, for no consi4vition whatever 42.000/.
r. The Hon. Member selected to consider that
had now a less share in the distribution
raids. Sorb statements wete not only below
*of " ' •

pigment of the .. Member, hut even too gross
m credulity of those meetings, where, no doubt,
Ir. Basks) wonld be held up as the author of all
wickedness. In truth, there was not the least
lotion of Ste share which the Crown enjoyed in
knit:melon of pa•tiona.ge; an.l the inferences to
4 the Hon. Mecularee etatement would lead, could
so other rivet than canselessly to iuflatse the
rof men, and give them notions the moot on•
led of the priaciplei upon which the most kn-
ot proceedings of Parliament were conducted.
.Ipl. O. BENSET spoke in reply to the statements
r lisoks. Notwithstanding all the plans of economy
ten recommended by that Hon. lientleman, he would
bat no man in that house had been more extravagant
• expenditure of millions, while he was continually
lief at pence and farthings.—(He hear.) —lie did
mow what the Hoe. Gentleman meant by keeping
it splendour of great families; hut be knew of one
Iv which took more of the politic money, without
erring any benefit on the country in return, titan
other that ever existed in this kingdom—he alluded
lee Grearille family. Lord Grenville obtained the
emplace of Auditor of the Escheoner in the year
I'4, with a redoced salary of 4,4W01. a-year, and he had
esdy revised *WO/. of the public money. Mr.
Ines Grenville bad by al seen re oilier recei erica] read I'
ingt of ttoe pane money; the late lii artiness of Burk.
law hack from his aseemore aloe of Teller of thee
•beiser, pot the anus of $O4llO/. into his pocket I
dikarbrooke had porketed )e414001.: and the whole.
received by this fissile from the public amounted-
s lest than ira,eont nerelfore, when Gentlensew
t ON teestimb vibe**, tbs. Clown should have,
sower of granting places and prosiihs, the peddles
smidered was, whether the merits of the parties ow
in they mem disposed widest drew to quell (Wooers.
the kb of Jassary, 1820. the Crows had
a misy; HAW ie pensions to foreign 21 inieters
Sift this fish, 2954131. was rives away in othei
Mos, besides a aim of 16h,0001. gives (WIN th•
reilated Puled; lediervient of the amosiiie.

*Wee! toe rosiest' therefore grained by.the
irn, mounted to 464,0001., and any new at
sod with history loom that pares anti ponsiom
!,forth. moot port, gives in considered*, of pat-
al jobbing—for the most foal and unworthy par
s; sod for the porposo of supporting the Minis
If the day. This woo a proof of the necessity coo-
led for by the Hon. Osotlernan of rewarding merit
he Report of a Committee of that House, of which
Hon. Member for Corte Castle had been Chairman.
,sad a position stating that the influence of the
an bad been increasing, sod nior, in opposition to
Report the Hon. Gootliasan said that it wools!
eressary to go back to the old aliases, and to
,Id the corporation of pensioners which had so
' existed. Now, pith the exception of the Right
. Member of the University of Oxford, there wa•
a man on the opposite side of :he Howe who had
served his time to this corporation. anti had not a
3 to enjoy such pensious as the Ministers should
kto direct the Crown to grant. He would
.!ors object to any system that had for its object
lake that Eloise a place fur trading in pensions
sinecures, a system that enabled men to come
e, and antler the patronage of the Crown, to sail.
domselres as annuitants on the pablic for the
le period of their lives. Such was the sytem that
e oat of the practice of Sleuth, rs being returned
oat House in the manatee they now were. If a
!of public meetings were to sit for the purpose of
wincing a verdict on the principles and conduct
he Hon. Member to whom he alluded, he was sure
r would fiod him a steady defender of the whole
Ile of extravagance, sod that during the whole of
political life, he bad been prodigal io guineas al-
nets Loin:, in pence and farthings.
fht IhrOsess of CONDONDEItitY observed that
Hun. lientleraao opposite had displayed the same
hairy ea lids as on former occasions; although his
time was equally doubtful now as it hitherto bad
Far his own part, be thought it'would be some
Isrllls twiddling to force the Crown to give up',
,y of these valuable prerogatives which it held fur
beeeitof the country. With regard to the Bill in
"lies. be thought it rather unfair in Gentlemen on
'..they side, who bad supported that Bill, to op-
eit now after so long a period. Perhaps they
teht they might be justified in doing so ander the
teat Dynasty. There was no ground for saying
t the Will bad been abased. It wan said that the
had created a corporation on that side of the heal
'f the gentlemen on the opposite were to zoom into
they would have no objection to be Members of
orporrion. He did nut think it candid in the
Member to cite the names of those wbw held pen-
a and others; nor was it true that they had beer.
',reed with: it merit on the part of those who held
'I. Ile bad put all these things down in his pocket
sod detailed thew on the present occasion for a
Iterate purpose, connected with so.ne recent trans
'4l. lie was confident the measure now propoaeif
.thoot be attends-I with atte-good result, and hoped
fonse would not be disposed to adopt it, on
se-Decked principle of the Hun. Member to,
deity.

TIP

. .
to reply, said he was eonvirico.d
bat he was right is bringing forward this motion.
gentlemen might ebanre their opinions on this sob.
Pet from difference of sitnatioor,(Hear, hear); bet
.e himself banged his opinions on the subject.
Vhat be bad said on the Bill was, that if a power
vas given to the Crown to give pensions, the Members
if that House shoot(' not, as a corporation, have the
lower of giving them. He believed that public opi-
nion wool.' never permit this Bitl to remain on the
Statote.boeik. He assured the Noble Lord that he
would again have an opportunity of giving hist:Tiptoe
on this Bill.
Sir R. HERON supported the motion, which was
agreed to without a division.
coonTs or JESTICE IN IRELAND.
Mr. S. RICE rosir.tci make his promised motion
respecting the Irish Courteof Justice. He adverted
to the Resointions which he had submitted to the
House in a former Session, and the statement in the
Report of the Committee, that farther information was
n eeeeee ry, and hi, object was to know whether any
steps would be taken for the purpose. la the last
Session a Bill had been brought in to indemnify cer-
tain officers of the Irish Courts ; they were to be paid
by Stamp dailies, and be wished to have an account of
those Stamp duties, as it was reported that too much
had been imposed on the public fur the preteaded
purpose of those indemnities. He said that the Chief

. .
Baron owed it as a duty to his character, his profits-
eion. end his country, to refute the charges which
were brought against him. lie therefore moved that
all letters, sow lying on the table, which passed be-
tween the Irish Government mid the Courts al ./entice
should be conaldered, that the Honor might be enabled
to judge of the conduct alb, Commissioners now sit-
ting in Ireland.
Mr. tiOCIASURN add lo was h.tppy in informiog
the Honse that the Report upon the table would inform
them of the beneficial effects which flowed from the
Court of Commissioners in Ireland. There were, how-
ever, many points upon which' that Report woolditive
no information. As be had lately left Ireland, be was
not aware of the existence of those letters alluded to.
lie eras convinced that the Commissioners would act in
the most unexceptionable manner, and that whatever
appointmento.they might make would be justified by
the virtue and abilities of the elected persons.
Sir J. NEWPORT said that however high his opi-
nion might be of the conduct and capacity of the Com-
missioners, yet the House ought well to consider the
grounds, upon which those Commirsioners gave situa-
tions and rewards. The Report would not be mule
until the end of the Session; and, consequently, the
House would not have tilt power of saying nay.—
He was of opinion that the motion should be deferred
until next Session.
The motion was put and agreed to:
Mr. DICKINSON moved that a Select Committee
'me appointed, to inquire into the iswi and practice of
the Commissiohers of Sewers.
The Committee was appointed.
Mr. 11111.731 E said he•would tro,lile the lions* with
I few words. He'ameld not boast of Dollies fine
speeches 'pis talent, were sot for sarcasms. Facts
yore Isis elogoenot, said figures his logic. He expect.
ed undo*/ and fairness from the boost. Ile espeeted
chat facts wapiti be ogpi.sedr!iite6..Ntel etrgnumpthy

-w.'!-•wirwsgmewwWwlteMtlgTTPPr're- " wr•
•af made a statement on a former evening, which bad
been attempted to be refuted by documents whirl,
were sot oCdcial, and calculations which were not ae•
curate. lie had put a queetion the Hon. Secretary of
the Admiralty; and, such was that gentleman's infor-
mation that be could not answer him. One might
expect a little more knowledge from a Gentleman.
who, for twelve years, held such a high official situ-
ation. The amount of the naval expenditure is 1917
as 5,985 0001., according to the Rigbth Report of
.he Finance Committee. The Hon. Secretary had then,
through a confilsioo of intellect, made a slight mis-
t lee of • few millions only. He (Mr. H.) was "a
plain, blunt WAN with neither wit nor words, our the
powers
of a speech to move men's blood." lie, how-
ever, never made a statement ern to contradiction.
He had but one object in view, to place himself before
that bottle, and through that house, before his country.
—(Hear.)—%Vould Site slinisters persist in evading
his question ? lie concluded by stating that the
country required an explanation from Mini .

• Mr. CROKER said he made no statement but from
a printed estimate. The Hun. Gentleman who just
sat down took a general y of the naval expendi-
ture without considering tilt items. He related the
Hon. Gentleman on the last night. Heeoetended that
the estimates for ISI7 were 7,300,00 W., and this year
only 5,500,000/. Ile then proceeded to show from of-
ficial documents, the various redoetions that hail taken
place this year in the naval expenditure. The next
point to which he adverted, was that part of Mr.
Httee's speech which referred to the expense* incurred
for the building of ships, observing that the Honour-
ab'e Member for Aberdeen had said that the as uf
17,000,0001., which bad been laid out fur that per- I
pose, " was large enough to build all the *vies in the
universe." He farther denies that that sea had been
expended within five years, asserted by the Men. Mem-
her ; oho had afterwards stated that it had been ex-
pended in the course of seven years. Hers the Hon.
Mewbereited some items which Mr. Home bad includedl
in the 17.01)0,00111. Though out properly coming
within that suns, he maintained that the whole ex-
pense fur the seven years, includiog the year 1813,
which was a year of war, amonoted only to
11,600,000/. instead uf 17,000,0001. as mated by the
so. Member for Aberdeen. It was true that in the
year 1615 the Wear and Tear Estimates anstenoted to
something about three millions and a half. but he
(Mr. Croher) did not lay any stress upon that, oot be-
og supplied at present with the particular items.—
.

Pflowever, since the year I SI7, the whole tepees* for
ship building did not amount to more than 5,700,0001.
He denied that his Majesty's Ministers had any ob
jection to produce the Navy accounts, though the
Hon. Member for Aberdeen had said oa a former
night, that they were unwilling to lay them before
the House, giving as their reason that the high des-
tinies of the nation might be endangered ►y publish-
ing such details. There was not the slightest fouaths-
don for this statement. He insisted that the 11".
Membez was equally erroneous is what be had said
,respecting the pI of the Marines. Ile would *H•.
'Wiwi( fear of contradiction, that the Ilan. Mitshor
ras avowedly and coafessedly erroneous I tww.4l4
••

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