The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-08-09 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-TUESDAY.

Mr. MACKINNON obtained leave to bring in a bill to im-
prove the health of towns by preventing the burial of bodies
within their precincts.
Sir F. BURDETT moved the appointment of a select com-
mittee to inquire into and report upon the negotiations be-
tween the Government and Mr. Warner, respecting his in-
vention.
Sir H. DOUGLAS said he was conscious he stood in a
particularly delicate situation as respected this question,
which the house would permit him to explain. Early after
his arrival from his late government, he had been applied to
by the government, through the Master-General of the
Ordnance, to form, with another officer, a committee to in-
quire and report upon the value of certain inventions intro-
duced to the notice of the government by Mr. Warner.
He had, with diffidence in his presumed ability, accepted
the office, jointly with Sir Edward Owen, upon the terms
that the service should be performed gratuitously ; that the
experiments should be proppily proceeded with ; that the
experiments to be made should be those only which were
connected with real service ; that the inquiry should not
have reference to any former experiments made ; and that
the parties employed in theinquiry should not be required
to enter into the question whether there should be any re-
muneration granted or not to the inventor. The inquiry
was noticed by himself and his gallant friend to embrace
two branches, the destruction of vessels of an enemy by
water, and of forts by land. Upon the assurance that what-
ever might transpire touching the invention was to be per-
fectly confidential as respected the officers employed in the
inquiry. Mr. Warner assented to these preliminaries.
Upon the 21st and 27th of January last they bad inter-
views with Mr. Warner, in which he had been warned to
avoid risking by any explanation the nature of his secret,
and the Ist of February was appointed for the exhibition of
the effect of his invention. At that date, it appeared Mr.
Warner was not ready to attempt his experiments, nor did
he call their attention to any fresh appointment whilst Sir
Edward Owen continued available, who not until the 25th
hoisted his flag.' Time enough had been thus given for pre-
paration, and if any unnecessary delay had taken place, it
was chargeable solely to Mr. Warner himself. (Hear.) The
place of Sir Edward Owen had been filled by a very compe-
tent officer in this description of service, Sir Byam
Martin. After some allusion had been made in their inter-
views with Mr. Warner to the description of experiments
they would require to be tried, Mr. Warner at once insisted
that they should go into the question of compensation
to him for his invention, when they at once explained
they had no such authority, and would not enter into
the consideration of that question. (Hear, hear.) In
consequence of communicating this determination to the
Master-General of the Ordnance that officer acquainted them
by letter, stating that this circumstance had not affected his
previously-entertained opinion as to any danger that might be
anticipated to this country from the invention being suffered
to get into the hands of any foreign Government. The
inventor had refused to offer, in proof of the value of his
invention, any of the required experiments until the sum of
£lOO,OOO should be guaranteed him—(loud expressions of
dissatisfaction.) The opinion of the persons charged with
thisinquiry was that the series of experiments should be all
practical; for it would not suffice, in their opinion, that Mr.
W. should place an ingine in the bottom of a pond of stiil
water and draw a barge over it so as to pull a trigger which
should communicate with the charge and cause the destruc-
tion of the barge. They were already well acquainted with
an explosive power which would blow a hole in any ship's
bottom and sink her; but the difficulty was to apply it to a
vessel of the enemy, with a tide ebbing and flowing from 15
to 20 feet elevation and depression, whilst guards were, as
usual, rowed round the ship. These were most important
considerations—(hear.) Again, if the caisson were buoyant
it must rise to the surface, and it would be detected ; or if it
were not buoyant it would sink, and prove ineffectual. The
question was important, how it was to be suspended at the
proper height in the water, so as to secure the whole force of
its explosive effect upon the bottom of the vessel to be
attacked ; He meant no disrespect to Mr. Warner, but he
had no hesitation in saying from all he had seen of that gentle-
man, that he was truly unlearned, and without scientific
knowledge. He might, in his own mind, have divined some
such power as he laid claim to, but he believed that was all.
Let him, however, if he could, under circumstances of wind
and weather, which he (Sir H. Douglas) would point out,
try his invention against hulks, which he would provide for
him, and against a fort which they had ready selected, and if
be could blow up the hulks, and ruin the defences of the fort,
displace the guns, and destroy animal life in the shape of two
or three hundred sheep—(" hear," and a laugh), which they
would place within it,—if Mr. Warner could do this and
show at the same time that the power can be used with safety
to the user, and that the country in possession of the secret
might retain to itself the exclusive benefit of it, then he would
say, that unlearned and unscientific as he was, he would have
made a high and important discovery, equal, perhaps, to those
of Schwartz or Bacon; but until Mr. Warner did this, he
(Sir H. Douglas,) judging from the little scientific knowledge
which he could claim, must confess himself incredulous as
to the existence of any such power.—(near, bear.)
Mr. BROTUERTON read some letters to show that Mr.

' Warner had offered his invention to Don Pedro.
Sir R. PEEL, said that every facility had been afforded to
Mr. Warner both by the late and the present governments;
but he bad repeatedly avoided submitting his experiments to
the test when the appointment was made for him to do so.
After some observations from Captain PLCMRIDOE and
Captain PECHELL,
Sir G. COCKBURN said that Mr. Warner had never been
in the navy. He was not a naval man.
On a division the motion of Sir F. BURDBTT was nega-

Lived by a majority of 72 to 2.
Lord ASHLEY obtained the qualified consent of the go-
vernment to a motion that the commissioners for enquiring
into the employment of children in mines and other branches
of industry be desired to make further enquiry as to the
number and ages of children employed as apprentices to
miners of coal and of iron.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved an address to her Majesty,
praying that the case of Mason and others confined in Staf-
ford gaol might be considered with a view to their discharge.
After some discussion the motion was negatived ou a divi-
sion by a majority of 53 to 30.
_ _

Mr., Humn then brought forward a motion for an enquiry
into the charges against the Rajah of Sattara.
Dr. BOWRING seconded the motion, but the hon. member
had no sooner concluded than the house was counted out.

HOUSE. OF LORDS.—FRIDAY.
•
Lord CAMPBELL, moved the second reading of the Bribery
at Elections Bill.

_
Lord BROUGHAM supported the proposition, and ex-
pressed a hope that the House of Commons would perceive
the necessity of giving up the trial of controverted elections
by its own members.
The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Monday.
Several bills on the table were forwarded a stage, after
which their lordships adjourned.

IVlNraftwor moved that tho haw Ilsoll6 Itoit int 4
6 Otittllrilto6 for tbo oirlatito of OiltlOhiFritig ttia ktiWiittg
Obttion
" That it having been the unifireal priialep, far many Kell;
past, to allow or to charge the wine merchants upon their
stocks in hand for any variation of duties that have taken
place, this house is of opinion that it is but just and reasona-
ble that the same course should be pursued in the event of a
reduction being made of the duty upon Port wine consequent
upon the tariff to be annexed to the treaty with Portugal,
notwithstanding the transfer of the collection of the whole
of the wine duties to the rustoms."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed the mo-
tion. It was a novel practice to propose a resolution of this
description. in anticipation of a treaty the precise terms of
which were not yet known. 'rho proposition of the hon.
gentleman went to constitute wine an exception to the ge-
neral rule, which had been applied to timber and other ar-
ticles. The wine trade had had ample notice; and the mer-
chants had been enabled to prepare for the alteration, and
dispose of their stocks. It must not be supposed that, by
taking off the duty on the stock in hand, the country would
derive any benefit.
After a few words from Lord SANDON and Mr. AGLI-
ONITY.
Sir R. PEEL said he hoped that no consideration would
induce the house to agree to the motion. They had recently
revised the whole of the custom duties, and exposed the
holders of various articles to an unexpected competition,
and in no case had a drawback been allowed. (Hear. bear.)
The holders of coffee and timber, for instance, were exposed
to this competiton, and no drawback was allowed; yet here
it was proposed, with reference to the particular article of
wine, that they should ender into an engagement to allow a
drawback, in the event of a reduction of duty on that article
being effected. Was there ever such a premium on fraud
as a measure like that would offer? (Hear.) And what
check would there be on adulteration ? (Hear, hear.)
The motion was negatived without a division.