The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-06-12 00:00:00

TI F, ,STSTESNI AN.

th opposite party. They hod formedpAddart of an A nation of the lawful Sovereigns. England had, un-
ministration which had curled on the business of the der the Administration decried by the Nobfe4sord,'
country for a long
time, end who had, in his opinion, defended the cause Of the Peninsula with Creel; to
and he believed iii the opinion of the public, carried herself ; and if it was proper to defend that cause, tri-;
the glory of the (wintry to a higher pitch than it had necessity greet expellees. must have been incurred, •
ever been carried before. He eulogised the conduct for great exertions were called fpr. The Ilan. Genf.
of the Prince en the present occasion; lamented the' deilarett ttiMt Ito shouldstet iofe taller fur the' At%
.deposition which appealed in the Administration td' dr3ses of the Hon. dent.' doe the. Amendment of the
d •part in some measure from that wise system. °Airole, -. two NehleTes, thinking the etterfo...rcoset of Pat-
which they had long acted with respect to the Roman liament incompatible with the priiimpl es upon which
but stated it to be his intention to give tretattetiftertetat Af .fits Off Mire he dlir-
'4••." them his assistance and support, unielluenced by any not mean to say that he would oppose any Address'
privite motive. ' which contained expreshions that to him appeared
vANstratt.r adverted to the conduct !unobjectionable. He expressed his entire confluence
rf the Sprereign oft a former occedon, when the 1 of the character of Lord Moira, as a man of the
Trouse•of COMMOns interferedwith his right. to air strictest integrity and most unblemished reputatiop.
paint his ,Mittister by ;molting , that they • had a I Mr. TferitE differed in opinion from the 'Hon.
right to ad schist Meteety qqn all oceiteions. This Baronet, hi his view of au oligarchy, for he thoughk
ltesotutiOn wei,Come to on the 21st 0( Meech, and that if the last proposal of the Noble Lord Moira
on the 2,sth.the Xing dl sited,, the raeliaineut, to !hid been accepted, namely, of unrestricted poWee,
take the sense of theleoplron the subject, a retie- ' then, indeed, the Coulicill of the State would have
lotion which was fully justified by the event. He been surrendered Into the hands of a desperate and
could not do better than rend part of an Addresifrom ' hinoxious oligarchy. '[hear, hear!] Ministets were
Berkshire, which was voted on that occasion, as it . responsible fOr that power. The lien. Gentleman
contained what had always been his sentiments on ; who moved the Address had said nothing' about se-
that question, sentiments which 'he yet felt no dispo- cret influence; hit' he could not deny that he had
Sidon to change. He then proceeded to' read ?art !heard of such influence—it '.had reduced America,
of en Address approving of. that conitituticinal right and was now tube for Med hi a Cabinet surrounded
• which the Sortweige possesses to choose hiS own Mi- ;by a Cabinet of another description. It-was tin-
att." and deprecatiog any attempt to trench upon doubtedly.the prerogative of' the CrOten to appoint
thiiteight. Stich attempts, if encouraged, would cote. the Ministers, bet was it not the dotted' this Router
sort the Government of this country from the best to:; fo nppeal against appointments which were not toe
the worst of all Governments—as it would take from the benefit of the State? The present Ministers had
us a limited Monarchy, and give us in its place'a ter- twice relinquished their offices, confessing thereby
lulent Democracy. their incapacity—they were the relics of the Pitt's
Sir THOMAS TURTON lamented those circum- I Administration, the rump of the rump of that Go-
s'r nces whieh had lAthlield from the service of the I ternment.' With respect to the Address, he did not
• country, the great talents of the Right Honourable ekpect 'the Hon. Gentleman would hare thrown cold
Liras Grey and Grenville, The Honourable Bare- l water upon his former Address, by moving such an
• net maintained that the Prerogative of the Crown I Address as the present. Ile thought the House would
would he surrendered into the hands of an oligarchy, relinquish their duty, if they did not follow the
lf. the Household Officers were to be placed entirely line prescribed in the original vote.
at the disposal of the Ministers. At the same time Mr. JOHNSTONE acid Mr. GRATTAN rose
he meant nothing invidious against the characters of. at the same time; the call, for Mr. Grattan was usii-
the Noble Lords who were the objects of the late versa!, but ,the former &aught the Speaker's eye.—
proposals for forming an extended Administration in The lion. Gentleman was anxious to explain his sea-
conformity with the vote of this House. With re- timents, though happy to hear the eloquence of the
wed to the principles upon which an Administra. Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. The Sovereign, he
Hop should act at the present crisis, he could no( observed, had a clears acknowledged, and undis.
avoid observing, that one of the topics upon which puted right to nominate the Household—that was re-
the discussions with those Noble Lords proceeded, cognised from the Revolution downwards, and this
;tamely, the Orders in Council, as a preliminary to he would shew, in utter contradiction to the doctrine
the acceptance of office, was of the utmost import. maintained by the Hon. Gent. who had assumed, that'
ante. In his opinion, if those Orders were not re- when the Officers of the Household were appointed
pealed, this country would in a few months be in a by the Sovereign, the reign of secret in ace began;
?readful situation—in a situation little short of civil to exist. That was a doctrine which he thought had, •
war. As to tha conduct of the Marquis Wellesley, been long exploded, and which none but the most
'there was nothing in that conduct to excite animal- i vulgar would have agaiu broached. The cry was ge-
t ersiou. Much had belie said of " personal animo. nerally raised by a party, whenever a combinatiou
but he believed, that as far as respected the of talents were called in to the service of the Sove-
communication between the Noble Marquis and the feign. It was so when Lord Bute. was about the
we Noble Lords, there was something like a per. Royal Person, and might have had more weight when
eotud.indispesition in the two Noble Lords to join it, was recollected that his early palmation with his
the Noble Marquis, and at such a moment as the Majesty led to such a supposition. If it ever did
press o, he thought personal feelings ought to bare exist, that Nobleman might be charged with .it ; but
pocAing to d 0 with public, men. The salvation of i what was the fact? all the letters which he published
tacit country should be their first object. He hoped, to the close of his life completely contradicted the
thatoetwitkatanding what had passed, the country charge, for he complained of the neglect of the Court,
mold still. tore . the services of the Noble Marquis l and wink likely, that he would have been neglected?
MA •the gig* Honourable Gcntlerean (Mr. (An- The cry followed the steps of Mr. Pitt and Lord
ping). As.to thu measures which might be necessary • Grenville, when they came into power; and those
f be perwe(!, if.the war in the Peninsula was to be Ministers knew that it was a mere cry; that it really
,'reed op, ho ells for carrying it forward on au ex- • had no existence—but that it was the cry of those
tett ,ted scale.. . , who were disappointed of place and of power. -
~ 0115DT ohserved, that when the Address [flea.', hear!]-Ile would read a list of the various
was.eo ed helves one of those' who concurred in Officers of the Household from the Revolution to the
mpinioa _a eh the Member for Yorkshire, and on the present rime.—[A laugh.]—la looking over that ;
preset* occasion,. !hen there was. most. assuredly a list, it would be seen, that if matter of complaint
greatieensation excited in the country in consequence , arose as to the influence they possessed, that coin-
of
feet it.became the (louse to exercise the I plaint was seldom if ever followed by a change of the'
transcendent power with, which they were invested Officers, when a new Ministry came into power. In '
.with discretiop. lie bad heard from some Gentle- I commencing with the names he found the Duke of
men, that there were esttreme cases when it was ne- I Ormond Lord Chamberlain from 1660 to the Resta-
cessary to interpose, between the Crown and the ration in 1688; then the Duke of Devonshire was
Government, and by a vote of Parliament. prevent appointed,' and he held the. office till 1707. Passing '
the Government of the Country from being placed over some intermediate appointments, he found, that
ju the lauds wholly of the Crown. There could in. 17'24, the Duke of Grafton was appointed, and
not, however, be a more inconvenient mode of pro- continued in office till 1757, a period of thirty-
ceeding, than in the, folloWing, up an extreme case of two years, amidst all those changes and various po-
the kind alluded to, hy putting a negative on the I litical conflicts which agitated the country, particu-
Yreregative of the Crown. It had been said that lady in Sir Robert Walpole's Administee.ien. The
this House had come to a vote upon the necessity P office was then considered not to be one in which t
for forming an efficient Administration upon an ex- • much of political bias was infused. The Lord Stew-
toadied scale. 'Undoubtedly they had so done, but • and of the Household, and the Master of the Horse
under,what circumstance? a notice of the motion were similarly circumstanced in the Reign of King
lied Ow only given the preceding day.
,At that time ! William ; the Master of the Horse was continued j
flu opinion was entertained that the delay of a few mi. during the whole of it. He now came to the pre-
uutesiecomipg to the vote,wpolithaye given a majori.! sent reign, as he did not wish to detain the House
ty against the motion. If Gentlemen adverted to what with going through the list, and he found, that in
pissed on the game evening shortly after the division, 11761, Lord Talbot was appointed Lord Steward of
they must he satisfied that, suc4 would have beef) the j the Household, which office he filled till 1781 ; due-
fact. If, however, extreme ,cases were to be enter. ' ing that interval, political conflicts were as warm
tained,stiso very dictation to the Head of the &tem. as at any period, and as much zee! was shown
tire was ineffeet taking the ,whiale, of the Governineut by parties. The Duke of Montague was made Mas- I
jnto thtettaiele_of
_Parliament, };et the House _would . ter of the Horse from 1784 to 1790. Hut these ap-
receded, that though *Habra:Wei of the Legislature pointments were acquiesced in teithout complaint,
head expressed on opinion upon the subject, the other ; during all the political squabbles which then took
branch had net 0.,1 pressed` Amy titdaion at all : they l
place, and were not called into question from mo..
had Ito hated their disapptohationsof the Ministry. ! tires of delicacy and a conviction that the offices
Wasthis House then to adopt tho language of con. irere distinct from political considerations.— !
trout ? A Noble Lisrd had put ;he . question on a i What happened in the year 1782 ? At that
much better ground
'for discussion than the Mover of period Lord North was compelled to retire, and •
the Addrgss, lie deprecated the conduct which i from attention to the Sovereign's feelings the
brought before the public the proceedings in the ne. nomination of one Member of the old Go'yere- j
gociations for forming an extended Administration, I ment was conceded to the Sovereign—for the ;
as highly,„.kiexpedient, .riwron. other occksiens as I Chancellor, Lord Thurlow, was allowed to remain
t coding to embarrass the , Government.--[lre in the Cabinet. The divisions and parties which
ar.9-e-Nle was ohe ;swam how those discussionsj succeeded the secession of Lord North, at the head of
could have been put forth • without infringing the I which were the Marquis of Rockingham and thel
oath which some of the parties had taken, as Privsel Earl of Shelburne, made no objection to the selec-
.Contwillors, which oath of coarse pveclutled them therefore, the Chancellor
tion of the Sovereign. If,.
from divulging any thing which passed betweett their 1 was thee suffered to remain, delicacy en the present
Royal Master amid themselves.—[Ficer, been'!]— occasion might he attended to—at least it was re-1
The simple question now u:nler consideration. way, qulrel. IVtiat, however, was the conduct of the
whether the present Ministers could be safely trusted theitlemen opposite ? Disappointed of the direction
to leanege the affairs of the State? And in dealing df the Councils of the State, the proclamationof se,
upon that eisestien, the Noble
,Lord had contended, Bret iiifluence was sounded from a quarter, w"" 1 • 1, if
that a yetltilf, this !louse had driven them from (Alice- founded in truth, furnished reflection on
theSoVe-
in 1803, .444 therefore they were:not competent to reign himself. If those to whom the commintications
manage.tom resources of the country, to carry en were'nuttle for condi% into power possessed in reality
tie. ear, and wield the energies of the State in this that love for country for which he (Mr. J.) had given
element er peril and of difficulty. But be would ask them credit; they' us true patriots, would have
t'e Noble Lord, whether it Ras not fair to compare cepted office, and have endeavourel to achieve ".
for
s%.itt Cr•iint ry with other cnentries, which, ever since their country those blessings which they considered
the time alluded to, had Ine.o w rested from the demi- were feccetuary. The Hoe,
•Gentleman. pvett, pro?

-wairosigmairacadinbabilleml

• •.

.::Lri

tiedeseli‘itoeneonfscg.rsea t
and
,seendapeurssrahinoevearThitiii:
that I e •
debits. Whoever bed refused
cepted office was initumHiecewda,s
cownc,.4,
but(Renville
7:l.n:eh:oh:mat motives. ha believed, by tiol
'Wellesley, that Lord M • • one, that f 0, • c ' r'
pirt.—[ Bear, hear n
To the Housitt:
Mr. Ii;LIAOT would not '
lloase as the question . ("e up the time of re,
lay in a very narrow
k was' • c001,.1. .
istitutional importance.
Commons the delibetiti enes ene
ve power of approval e.' 'I;
Government belonged ; and to the Cm* flip el l'i -
berative power of choosing its Nl' n'
" --•::',,
,
t House of Cornmoni was rested the "listcrs.
in
-
Power of net,:
living that appointineut of Mildst
to support the choice, until,that ers-'-'3f'
iserthin';
choicewas 4
Honed by the confidente of the sane:.
people .1.1 e
. trout of this House Is the very vital g. • . in
-nu'
. prtricgOe cr th 6
' Constitution. What had passed indierto •
entiemenaael 7'l
jest? A vote had been come . nthese'''.
to, stating the .
which this House entertainedof setae
the ueeeesee i
making a strong and efficient Administration,:• o-
imply-
big thereby, that the Administration th •
orlf: rig 11:titi.:1
the conic:pence of that vote?
did not possess the confidence of Paritti'et power
correspond with the wishes of the country lit.tt' no;
rising the powers of the Government resigned
The G
exec.
their
situations. A communication was made to the louse,
ie answer to the Address'fromthe P •
mice Regent
pressitig his determination to comply with the wee
2 ex.
of the country, and the Ministers, that they . ""
requested to hold their situations ad interim. 11Tie7
three weeks elapsed, and nothing further wash:mil',
till one of 'those same Ministers came (lowa to tiro-
House two days since, and informed P l• ' of
Al' iarnmt a
..
warn stince'which the House should take care does
not prove the,death of its character and authority ...._
hear! Hear I]-1V liat was that cir • ' •••
circumstance? 11,4,
the communication of the fact, that his !loyal Hie"...
ness in answer to the Vote of the House, calling for
a stronger aid more efficirit Administration, had re.
turned upon the country the very Administration of
which they conipinined !—[Hear, hear!]—The lion.
Gentle Man '(Mr. S. Wortley) had stated, and as.
sumed various propositions, as arising in the negoci.
ation between the Marquis Wellesley and his Noble
Friends, which he would pass over, and advert to
the' other, and the last negotiation with the Noble
Earl Moira, who had eertolnly made a communica-
tiou which was fit' for serious consideration ; but
when his Noble Felends desired to know whether
they were to be entrusted with full powers of can.
trout over the whole of the State Offices? The Noble
Earl expressed his dissent from entering
into any . l' is.
cussion of that question. If, therefore, they had
sacriliced their authority by acceptance of claire,
under the terms .offertsl, they world have divested
themselves of ell responsibility over. the• State, and
have recognised that principle, which, of all nthers,
was
.most dangerous, namely, - dividing the Court
from the Government. [Hear, hear!] The can.
concession of the point would have shown the value
annexed to the influence—which indueece, in crf-
junction with another Household allied to the Go-
vernment, would have formed a most important bar-
rier against the power of the Constitution. The
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Cartwright) bad denied the
fact, but did not Lord Nloi.a carry the minute of
the conversation to tee Prince, iu order th4t (helm-
, pediment in respect to the Household might be re-
moved. The advisers of the Crown, however, ad.
keret] to the, principles they wished to maintain.—
The Household remains as it was, and the measures
on which his Noble Friends atone could accept oat.,
were not abandoned ; namely, conciliation •.) the
Catholics, and toe repeal of the Orders in Ceuncils
On the other point there had been a compromise,for
the Ministers completely abjured their trust. Two
months ago they declared, that it Was the eeanimons
opinion of the Cabinet, that the question of the
admission of Catholic Colonels to the rank of Gene-
rals could not he entertained : they now declare
themselves of a differ nit opinion. What would the
friends of the Church say to his? Whet would the
Judge of the Prerogative Court, the Member for
Oxford, say, when he found that those very Minis-
ters had drunk the dregs of the cup of political humi-
liation?—[llear .1] —The question fur the House to
decide was, whether on these grounds they would
suffer a vote to be frustated which they once had
come to—recollecting that the authority which passed
that vote in those critical times, was an authority
emanating from the people ?—[llear, hear !]
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST entered at consi-
derable length into the defence of the Government,
which was the same, he contended, that had already'
experienced the confidence of the country ; and
the question was, whether the present Ministry ,was
to have the support of Parliament, on whether other
persons. were to.be appointed ?—And the Right-Ho-
nourable Gentleman who spoke lest appeared to
press the latter alternative, as the only one which
could .beadopted by the House. The House, it was
true,..had come to a vote (he should • net stop to.ea-
I aintra• under .what peculiar circurnatencell, these
Address should be presented to the Regent, (Ur a
broad .•and extended Administration; but. having
once come to that vote, were they never. to be sa-
tisfied until a different Administration was formed,.
but to go on addressing the Executive Power mi-
lli such . an Administration as they wished wai
appointed ?—tle was afraid, -however, that it
was impossible to put out of sight all that had passed
(though it' was not regularly before Them) in the;
wegociations which had recently taken place ; an.
upon that ground it appeared to him, that the mo-
tion of the Honourable Gentleman, 'and the Amend-
meat of the Noble Lord, unjust cast the impute-
tion that sufficient exertions had not been Made.—
As for the Noble Lords who had Inv engaged in the
recent negociation, if they had a feeling that any
secret influence existed, they had acted as became
them in declining office, and he was far from casting
any imputation upon them ; but he did not wider-
stand that the negociations turned upon the question
of the household, as had been stated by the Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Elliott). but that it was to be
left min matter of discretion and euitequent consider'.
tion. He hod understood that ill'the high .offices of
the Household were to be conselered as' vacant, and
that no feeling of a private nature Was to have ant
weight in their dispose I.—[ flee
side!]—Such was the nature of thepropmeel arra nee.
\from the Miniskod
meat melte understood it, and it did appear to Lira
that if-those high officers were to hammered at ()timid

pared to support any Administration having for its
!object the good of the State, and he should be in_
I dined to support Lord Moira as Prtmier, and Mr.
I Whitbread as Chaneellor of the Exchequer—ru
laugh)—for 'lnutile the schemes whielt had -run yin
his head in respect to the formation of au efficient
' Administration, that was one which appearetko him
. at feasible, and likely to be ultimately beneficial to
'the country. But it seemed that the Gentlemen ops
1 posite were not fond of coalitions. The question
was, whether the House was determined' tti forte
them into power and give them the whole rim-
trout ? He was prepared to admit, that there was a'
' seeming inconsistency in some Gentlemen coming.
back to office; but if lie could see any thing better
for the country, he would most readily adopt it; if
not he should support the present Administration. He
could not think so meanly of them as other Gentle,.
! men. Had not the Government received au accession
of strength in my Lord Sidmouth ? Was he not a
man of integrity •and of talents, courted by Mr.
Pitt, nay even by the " Talents?" What was the
: occasion of the difference which the Noble Lord had
; with Mr. Pitt, and which led to the resignation ?--
Why this—that•lie would not, in vulgar language,
".go through thick and thin." He, with Mr, Bond,
resisted one of the most flagrant jobs that ever came
before Parliament—the cute of the Mkt? of Athol,
: and consequently resigned. It was not true that he
id...driven from office ignominiously. In that asser-
t
lion he was justified by what a, relation of his had
told• him—the late Sir W. Pulteney • to that re-
spectable man the Noble Lord' had stated as his rea-
-1 tons for quitting office, " that he felt he held office
i only with the unreserved confidence of his Sore-
; reign% that in this contest he found that Mr. Pitt and
1 hirek'oe were in unison—that. if they should draw
i doter together, he could not retain that confidence, '
! and he found it necestary.to retire in the early stage
Of the contest to escape those diffieultiek and evils
which were evidently ariiing.7 The' merits of the
Noble Lord were recognized, and were never more
apparent than in the efficient way in which he got on '
the taxes. In 1806, upon the appointment of the I
" Talents," those merits were' fairly and justly ac
knowledged. The Administration of the Noble Lord
practised self-denial and went out of office in a com-
mendable
manner, which was not to be avoided—[A
laugh]. The fact was so, but what was the fact with
respect to Mr. Fox and my Lord Grenville? They
; were untried; but when tried; did they quit office
with a reputation for abilities as high as before they
came into office?—[Hear, hear !]—Did their expe.
ditions to the Dardanelles, to Egypt, and to various
parts of the world, justify the expectations which
had been previously entertained of them? For him-
self, the lion. Gentleman disclaimed all party spirit;
because, when he found upon any occasion the public
voice was against the Ministers, he followed the voice
of the public. Nov, as to the measures of the Go-
vernment, he was one of those who never did approve '
of the Orders in Council. He thought that the af-
fairs of America presented a critical aspect, but it
would he too much to assume, that Government
would-not take such measures as would restore the
relations of amity with that Power. As to the finan-
cial difficulties under which the country labours, he
had every reliance upon the abilities and knowledge
of his Right Hon. Friend at the head of that depart. !
meat. He saw, however, no means of extrication
from the difficulties whicbsurround us by any vote
of the kind adopted some days ago. The Honoura-
ble
Gentleman concluded with stating his determine-1
tion to support the Motion for the Address. __ . !

L Mr. GRATTAN, upon the present occasion, did
;
I not think it necessary to trouble the House at any
great length. The subject was certainly such as re-
quired a very great exertion of consideration from
the Howse. The circumstances of the country were
such as demanded every effort that could be made
' for its service, but, at the same time, he could not
i blame those who bad restrained that love of power
so natural to men, unless they saw that the accept-
ance of power could lead to effectual service. The
refusals of office were indeed very few. Such re-
fusals did not frequently occur. They were seldom
found, and when a man accepted of office in this
country, that man should, in his opinion, be cer-
tain that he was likely to have the confidence
of his Sovereign. [Hear, hear, hear 1 If he
believed, that after being raised to a public situa-
teen, he was likely to be tontioulecl in the discharge
of duty, it would be much better not to accept it..
[Hear, hcar 1 In this country, the Minister of
the Crown should possess the ear both of the Parlia.
I Pieta and of the King. Were he to lose his billti-
enceover the one, his influence over the other would
soon vanish. - The Household was only a certain
i body of persons appointed for attendance on the So-
vereign. It imparted no political idea. ,It was sub.
ject.*o•oo aunts-eel, et lead from that House. If.
I the 'Noble Lord& alluded So .in the course. of the de.
bate, thought-it Likely that two Cabinets were to be
1 iw existence, one a Household Cabinet irresponsible,.
the other a political one elegged,with responsibility?.
he, for one, thought these Noble Lords acted wisely;
I its not accepting office under such apprehensions.--.
Vicar, hear!] They acted wisely in not accept.
nag what they believed they could not manage for
1
1 the good of the country. No man lamented more,
1 than he (lid the disappointment which bad taken
place. He lamented it, not merely from motives of
friendship for Noble Lords concerned, but from
a conskierat ion of the. good measures which might
have followed their acceptance of power. The Ho.
insurable Member (Mr. Johnstone) who had just set
down, mentioned with sonic praise the name of Lord
Sidmouth, and from the answer last night given in
the House, it appeared that the force of Government
was.inst to he exerted against the Catholic claims,
but it should be recollected that Lord Sidmouth was
the deckled enemy of those claims. That Noble Lord
was, as he understood, appointed one of the Secre-
taries. Thtl claims then of the Catholic's should, in
their progress to discussion,• pass through the hands
of s person who had always declared himself, and
who always was a conscientious enemy, to such claims-.
Piled the Noble Lords (Grey and Grenville) been rais-
ed to power, the consideration of that important sub-
ject would thertise under the guidance of nun • who
.were its decided Mends. • He was desirous that the
---slanted- on that night with as

d:.'.,r.le.

~~

much .mildnestrttr possible. - floweret persons might
have differed In plAttical sentiment' hi hoped that as
little ikelindversiOn_ at; possible vt'ouldmiugle in. the

gTAfits"MAN:

. . ~. •
we put the Soiereign In a gate Of degradation Of Merit-bit:a of the '0 ritioSitiOn; It *di dee lat:Piously *fees viblation Isf-the •Addreciiefeefertnieset e„n 'Ong liveaNiati Of the Stile ihduld.be defier one tinitiidie
ie, nuke huniiliatieg nature, and -the Noble sEarl patrdnized by the Opposithei, two Clantletneu only ;and efficient Administration ; nore elited. tsey. per- and the 0111cersot the ()Oita ddeeisidisiher ?-elatt-dt
(easesee felt it .o,seid acted aCConlingiy. The queit rose and
,delliered their opinions ;•for had any such ceive any'hope of balanclng toe Cabinet, ;with eire *dela be thought be them, if they hid i;mideseeiiiietl
te,, thee leis, Whether; by pressing, fbrwattl thuse ,desire • been, manifested, the Honourable Gentles prietY a , by such stipulatiOn. A Cabioecippeared to abandon this principle, ,principle liltae'' leo ilicele`-'
la., could procere, what they wanted? It was idle iman would have' occupied a 'grouted, in ap .rs to be a body of Codnciliers fastened together oy ' ing no distinction between the greet Othietsl of the
,0 talk of poblie talents being Public' Property to ' ance, more tenable when he Chose to assert, that • =teal reliejice upon each oth'er's eapac. ities met in- State, and the great Officers of the (Iowa; But
.b„ pressed into the minim of the State, for no power they were not labouring to - get people from . tegritye Ipossessing also the confidence of the crown were these Noble, Lor4etiatifleil be fifty thing that
e.eistedto oblige any individual to accept of othce, power bet -to get themselves. into it. lie never and a concurrence in public measures; het nio hope passed'
s in abandoning those pliiitiplet Shish had
- • •
nor was it poseible to fovea a bread and extended recollected any question of such importance from of such a Cabinet was presented to tiles, by the plan been insisted epoii by ill {hit prenecesiors? For p
Administration, withodt considering the public prin- ' which there were se many of the Opposition absent ; submitted, and a certain deterioration of character iu althOugh the llonse had voted ate Address fora Stroe4
aptesand feelings of theleVeral individuals who were the intimation was so short, that Gentlemen, who their own estimation awl in that of the Public, and efficient Administration, this first orinicival was' '
intemled to compose it. The Right Hon. Gent. were at a distances had not timeto receive intelligence , would undoubtedly follow their acceptance of ollices . not very like', to attain that most desihible objlica.4'
e.•*
then entered intd d vindication of the character and lof it; and the Ministerial•side *f the 'louse had the under such regulations. Twere his explanation was so broad 'They never honoured by a Pretend' inter/MP
welsures .of the admiiiiitratiott -of Lord Sidenouth i honour of pas-sing a vote of incapacity upon the ali. and so ample,- • thut it anticipated almost all that hem with his Royal Highness the Niece ilreeet.—iffeasn'•
e.eainst the attacks of the Noble Lord, (Milton), and ! nistry almost without the participation of the Oppoe ' had to say upon the subject. The Crown had hitherto he;rdj—The ordinary and afield practice prune tbd -
eontended that they had 'either been driven out 1 silion. He begged to say Ai his friends and for been in the habit of s.uainioning in able men to its formation of every new Atiniieiseraeon'Lleet thii •
enr left is a miserity, tut yielded to the pressure i himself, that they had no secret--no reserve upon the Councils, but such a proeosol 'as that, was of a na-; precticeauport the' present•occiasion was quite alert
bf dronotstanoes. With reepict to the conduct ob- : subject ; the more extensive the capacities were which • ture so dissouant' that the first glance at it repulsed ent ; nor did the prOposel itself convey-to them any •
served by Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fe* on that occasions : the Administration could admit, the more would they the mind, let it have been ever so prone to political ; pretence that they possessed the Conklin& of thd •
he had only to observe, that- le
.iwas no impatation Ibe gratified, •and the country assisted. It had been compliance. For it took for granted, that a certain: Crown. Under whet circumstances then could Oily
against that Administration, that it t mild not attitude Impressed vat the eeople's diitids try the vote of the system of opposite interests would display themselves I have hoped to bring foistard the Ca' biotic' question *.
against their inlioesce• He wished to Gott that Houses that a coalition of public men, of hitherto in the Cabinet, and attempted to raise a darner In this House there hid been alwAys a majority
those illustrious characters were now living to !dissonant parties, was to take, place, and a strong against ima • terrors. The first • •lof against I
emery princip.e a t :em upon -bet question; and they were de=
emcee their great talents for the benefit of the Adniiiiistration, fulfilling the eitlectancy of the lie- Cabinet was mutual confidence of its 'Members in , termined not to feint goy Admieistratiou unlees they
country. He meant no disparagement to any . time, would be the consequence. It certainly was each other, a sound political agreement, and total ' could carry that question.' Were they theft 'totems*
Honourable Gentleman, when .he said that there the wisleof all those persons with whom he lived iu abhorrence of all jealousy and distinct interests. 'rile ;to this Rouse with this Mark' brandeti upon theme
were no such men now ; hut they must look to those ifriendly habits, to coalebce with the other Gentlemen , answer of the Noble Lords having been dispatched • while in Order to carry that question every mark
materials which they had, and decide between the ..who might be called to the Adittillistration. It was :to my Lord Wellestey, ne further correspondence "of the confidence of the Crinn was abiolnle!y nee
present Ministers and those whom it was proposed : the determination of his two Noble Friends, and of . took place under the auspices of the Prince Regent. cessary. With respect to America the dam.;
to supplant them with. The Right Honourable Gee- • himielf, to act with any men who could unite cor- ' But his Noble Friend, the Earl of Moira, returned ties meet& be still gretitier:,
eands connected m
frottitee pre:
deman next adverted to the determination of leaving • diall'y *upon some of the great and,peuding questions l a private answer on the 3d of June, wherein he la. ' sent complexion of affairs
the Catholic Question open, and asked whether it at present iit agitation in the public mind. They -inented that a negociation promising such happiness that country, that which /night •have been easily
bid not been held oat as the pride and pais° of /end were desirous to cast their Portion of assistance into to th enuntry should be broken off upon points, and ' adjusted two or three years back; • they might
..
Grenville, when at the head of the Government, ; the grand political balance, and aid all the resplen- I hoping that no blame could be attached to him ; that • now find impossible. The third question which re_
that he had carried the Abolition of the Slave Trade . dent talents which came to the support of the Go- letter was written with the accustomed frankness and , lated to an . economical reform in the expenditure;
by making it a Government question? and argued . 'eminent. When the formation ef such en Admi- courtesy of the Noble Earl, bat unhappily it was not ; and unott whicli. a Bill' was now pending in that
from that, that there must be a legitimate influence : nistration was entrusted to the capacity of his Noble expressing opinions pf aaigher authority than his own. I House, brOught foment by an Hon. Gentienfau • •
vested in the Government, which was made requisite , Friend (the Marquis Wellesley), that Noble Person In answerto which, Earl Grey immediately wrotethat ; (Mr. Baukes) on which, he had been able to obtalh
by the nature of things—[hear!]. If then, it was . requested the assistance of his two Noble Friends they were anxious to assist in the.Geveripnent, borer only a majority.of -nine. • Could. it be expected that
I
supposed, that the influence of Government de- (Grey and Grannie), informing them, that all party a the failure of the negocintions they imputed no blame ,O. Ministry so formed under difficulties of this sort.
fcated the Catholic Claims, could there he any harm ; predilections were suppresied, and a general union of to theNobleEarl ; theydiscovered an utterimpossitelity ! and not supported by the confidence. of the Cruet' •
to try the question without it? Then it was said,ltalents was to take place for the furtherance of the ofcomplyingeith therequest upon sound constitutioual ' could carry such a measure? But the orlicnis task .
• that there was Inconsistency hi this line of policy, ; common cause of their country. When a call had principles. Upon the 4th of Julie, Lore Grey re- ; was to be put upon them, by.fiist denying them the
for that Ministers had said some months ago, that i been made upon those Noble Persons, in a manner ceived a letter from the NobleLord,saeing, that he had ' power over the Household, and granting, tame the •
the question should not be agitated at all.— ; which they were obliged to declare that they could hot received an explanatory letter from Lord Grey, with i more odious task of afterwards displacing Member'
'Was there then to be no change ?—[char, hear!) , concede, the Public had a right to know upon what which heavas gratified. Ile was not aware that his :of Parliament for their votes. There were dries in
lie was not now stating his own individual opinion, ] grounds they made their resistance; therefore, for the Royal Highness tad given further orders for a re- i that House who well knew the Noble Lords were
for he saw uo practical view on which the question ' purpose of vindicating their characters from all mis- newel of the negociations, a circumstance which he i not actuated in this by any narrow or personal mot
zuuld be conceded, but he only spoke in justification • conception, he begged indulgence from the House to deeply • lamented, as a very successful explenatidn I Lives whatever; and if a mien could hare been •
of those who thought the Catholic claims might be i narrate the correspondence in the order in which it might have been made. Ile would be platen, that I formed upon those principles, the House ,must do
Trahted under certain limitations and restrictions, had happened. Upon the 231 clay ef last month, the under the sanction'of the Regent he had received a! theta thejustice to say, that they manifested liver,
which might make it wholesome to grant them. It i Marquis of Wellesley communicated to Lords Grey commission so conciliatory as to have effected the : disposition to . have the negociation forwarded.--:
was then fit and proper to know what those limita- and Grenville the plan of an Administration, adapt-' purpose for which they had negotiated. Lord Grey i With regard to the present motion before the
tions and restrictions were, in order to satisfy those ; od, ask was described, to the present posture of af- wrote an answer, in which he and Lord Grenville; House, however highly he respected the chile ' •
-who could not see them.—[Henn !]—Tnere was, i fairs. •The Noble Martinis said that he had been.en- professed a readiness to comply with any desire of a' racier .of the Honourable Gentleman who brought
'therefore, no inconsistency or dereliction of principle trusted, by his Royal Highness, to collect together conciliatory nature which his Royal Highness might lit forward, yet, as he understood it, it was rather ri
in those persons who Tad been placed by their Satre- ,an Administration of strewth and character, for the transmit. Soon afterwards, under the authority of i motion to keep in the present Admintstrotion,'whiek
reign in the administration of the Government. He i more happy dispatch of public affairs, but in which the Regent, a meeting took place between Lords . the House had already voted to be inefficient; and ••
hid aered thus much, in order to remove, as far as !he did not desire to take any situation. This Admi- Grey and Grenville on the one side, and the Earl of however they might have the power of availing thefii.:
he could, tie great impression made by the speech of i nistration was to be totally unmarked by political Moira, in which Lord Erskine was present, upon i selves of any accidental did, from any'quarter frdet
'the Right Hon. Gentleman- (Mr. Elliott) on these' dissentient. In the first place, the claims of the Ro- the other. This wits at St. James's-place, on the : which it might come, still they were in a state of
who only saw their own mode of conducting this j man Catholics were_ to be brought to a situation of Gth of June. The Earl of Moira informed them that ; weakness and insufficience. The motion, he fhoughle
-question in a favourable point of view. To revert.; adjustment and conciliation; and in the second place, he was authorized to arrange a Government, and was ' did not go far enough, and he believed there never
to the question immediately before the House, he i the war upon the Peninsula was to he carried on in a desired to consult with their Lordshies upon the . was an instance before the Haute toting an Address
'saw no mode of proceeding left, but to go on ad- ! more extensive scale of enterprise, by an augetenta- plan. After mentioning these concessions upon the ; for a change of Administration, end then resting sa-
tdressing the Regent, and telling him,—" We don't 1 tion of the British armies in Spio.end Portugal.-1 Catholic claims, they enquired whether er not the ; tisfied with having the same Admidistration again.—
•care what has been done, or who is in fault ;" of to] Throughout all that communication to his Noble I contemplated Administration was to be furnishedilt was not for any accession of strength and efficiency
twist satisfied with the steps which had been taken. Friends, the Marquis had not stated that he had any ' with a greater extent of authority over the great Offs- i they could approve of them, for there m its none. It
Lord YARMOUTH said, that the Officers of his , euthority to form. an Administration at that very cars of the Household than what the former projected could not be from the adoption of any edeciliating • '
Majesty's Household had manifested all possible lie. time. He communicated only the views intended Administration was projected to have, and which meeeares, for aeNohle Lord, a Member of -this *Ad.-
elination to accommodate themselves to the pending to be entertained by the coalition of parties. Upon was usually granted in new political, arrange- t ministration (we understand Load Harrowby), had
negociation. He spoke in the name of a large pot- the ith 9' May, without either cavilling or delay, I meats; to which the Earl of Moira answered, i declared in another place, that they remainedin office
tion of the Household, who only desired ten minutes' the Lords Grey and Grenville dispatched the follow- 'that the Prince Regent had given him no in. i for the purpose of preventing the Government from
warning to surrondeir their situations ; but-the re- ing answer:—That they considered it to be the para. I formation upon the subject, nor had even hinted at falling into the hands of those whose opinions and
moval of the Household, se stebnuotiily insisted uponl mount duty of public men to elaandon any object ea- such a concession: Upon this the Noble Lords i principles had been condemned by the country ; in
as a preliminary of service •of the Noble Earls, ap- petite of promoting personal animosity, so that stirrefused to accept of any offices in which they would other words, to prevent the accelleratiotrof the Catho-
peered to him to be designed toga to emech greater ! cient effect might be given to the vote of Address i not be permitted the power to give stability to the lk claims. But it was said, the Catholic question would
I •
extremity than ever was meditated in a new Admi- ! moved by the House of Commons to his Royal High- I new arrangements. The consultation closed with not be made a Cabinet measure, and if
.not a Cabinet
nistration before. He declared, before God, that to I ness :an Administration capable of sustaining the mutual expressions of regret. Upon the whole, i measure, it never could be a Legislative one, for if they
insidt upon such an extensive dismissal was for nee! country successfully against the eminent peril in then, what authority had the Noble Lard (liar- ' did not undertake this it never could be carried, for he
other purpose but to oiler humiliation to his itteyal I which it appeared to be placed, was *hat they de- mouth) to say, that the removals in the Household never knew any great measure having a shecessful
Highness himself. - " I sired much to see : they had no disposition to cavil were greater than before meditated upon any change termination, without it was first made a Cabinet men.
Air. PONSONBY rose, and said, that lie hoped at the admiesion of different parties. Respecting the of Administration.—reCeics of. No, no!]—To giie sure. Such measures had been carried by the Opp°.
the House4Ould submit with patience to the- length I measures supposed to he the determination of the strength and eflicioncy to any Government, a mutual bidet', but it was after that Opposition had been
of time he was imperionsly necessitated to employ in : new Government to adopt, they had -formerly ! concurrence and agreement in the principles upon I changed into an Administration, and taken into the
the /indication of his Noble Friends and of himself, . expressed pretty amply their opinions upon the I which it is framed—next, a good understantliiig with service of the Crown. Were 'they to come to the
from the misconception under which it had appeared , Catholic claims, and in which they delighted to I the Crown—and lastly, a good and sound character !eonclnsion, that the Government had no opinion
several of de House laboured respecting their Wei find the had the concurrence of the Noble Ito each Member composing the Administration, and npoa a question involving the peace and happiness of
conduct. •Ile had hearkened to expressions of a du- , Marquis himself. They would willingly sup- I a countenance of honour, and a heart of integrity in : oise-fifth part of the Empire, and upwards of four
binoi complexion, employed by the Noble Lord j port any Motion of any person that would lead to a , the eyes of the people. These qualifications only ' millions of his Majesty's subjects ?—lf he was wrong
(Yetmouth), and which he had assured the House, I conciliatory adjustment of the differences, without I gave strength and efficiency to a Government. His in this, then most happy should he be to see his °pi-
voted his lips for the first' time. Who the Right t which, nal found it impossible to contribute their Noble Friends had been rashly blamed, for hastily : nion erroneous,and the conduct of the Cabinet, coa-
Ilon. Gentleman mentioned by the Noble Lord was,' aid. In the next place, they were of opinion, that l breaking up the negociations, but it was not their tradictiag his predictions. Under these einem-
who possessed such transcendent talents, who was the direction of military operations was a question oft blame that they listened to them. If any blame stances, he hoped his Noble Friends (Grey and
such delightful company, he could not conjecture ; ' policy, not of principle; an unstable fluctuating` could be attached, it would be with the Noble Grenville) stood acquitted from any wish 'to clopo.i
but he would affi in, in the names of my Lords Grey scene of operations which expanded or contracted, I Marquis and Earl Moira, who submitted plans of polise power to themselves ; that they gat! acquit-
and Grenville, that no conjecture .or assertion was according to the capacity or inclination of the coon-' Governments, without having well weighed the ted of any wish to hurt the feelings of iffy person
ever made se errenoontlye than that those Noble• -try ; but they believed that a careful hand to watch 1- principles of the Constitution. Such principles whatever, but, above all, the Illustrious Personage
Persons determined to have the Household Olken ! over the Public Fsependituree at a period like the as were held to be fundamental, and established , so often alluded to ; they were incapable of any
dismissed for the sole purpose of humbling that per- present, would not be unacceptable to the nation.— firmly at the glorious Revolution. It was a viola- such motives; they had acted, not on private,
son to whom all respect was due. lie eels cer- A coMmenieation of the same nature having been ! lion of these principles which lost the' House of but public grounds. lie entirely agreed in the
. Lain, that no Right Honourable Gentleman of his made to another quarter, Lord Grey believed that he ; Stuart the Crown. The King, by the law of the Amendment of his Noble Friend (Lord Folkestone) .
acquaintance{ concerned is the negociation to which perceived some difference between the One submitted ! Constitution, was an irresponsible person, who was, in all ?arts, at the same time -he did conceive that
he himself was admitted, would have forborne, had ; to himself, and the other, which he deemed to be im- I however, under promise to employ confidential per. , it coota too much matter of detail for the House
any such eenversatiou happened,.to have immediate. portant. Ile accordingly wrote to the Noble Mar.lsons to support his Government, and to suffer then: to enter 1' 'sal present. lie was, therefore, ready
IY communicated it. Many persons- were present : quis, informing him of the distinction which he appre- ito courted him in the exercise of his prerogative.— :to vote fog ilia. Amendment of his other Noble Friend
now who happened to be in company at that time, ; handed had been made, and requested an explanation. The House of Stuart told the Parliament that it (Lard Milton), which was consistent with the dig.
upon whom he caned so contradict him, had he been Upon the receipt of - this letter, Marquis Wellesley possessed no right to interfere in those matters of nity of the.-House, sun the principles of the Cod:.
guilty of any misrepresentation. There was a Part i immediately transmitted an answer, which cleareileip .State, and by an unconstitutional resistance to the stitistien. I
of the Noble Lord's affirmations to whiter •he con. ,an misappreheesions,and restored the natural goodesr. Parliament, compelled the people to dethrone them, Mr. BA.TIIURST sheeny explained.
tens Plated no immediate answer, which was the prin. derstandingbetween them. Matters passed on without and place a more deserving Family on the Throne.— ; Mr. CANNING, in a speech of great lettgth,.
ciPie upon which the responsible advisers of the Crown ' any further notification until the first day of June, Although the Crown had the prerogative to dis- entered -into a history of the TlP4oeirStiOn, and sere=a
sought to •rintrottl his Royal Wellness by means : when 'Marquis Wellesley wroteto his Noble Friends, miss its servants,when it thought proper, never- . nuously defended the steps taken by the Prince Ree
'°f the Household ; to this he would advert towards tioforming theta, that he had received ample autho- theless it was bound to accept of counsel from gent, to carry into effect_ the vote of the House of
'he conclusion Of his speech. Passing those opinions : rite to arrange an Administration, and was specially, those persons employed under it. The Right Hon.jCemmons. Ire denied the assertion
.which had been
'for ,
the-present he would proceed to relate occur- authorised to 'communicate with them upon that f Gent. then proceeded to enumerate the various r repeatedly made, that the ceMmenton to ferni an
.
"nal as tilfy happened it; a train, with as much dig. I subject ; informing them of the names of those '-changes of Administration from 1766 to the present ' Administration had always been handed to those per-
patch and accuracy as was possible. Upon the 21st epersons desigued to form the Administration.-- I day, in every one of which.the change of the Officers sons_ who_ could command
i the greatest number of votes
of last month, the Parliament, upon the motion of ilt was proposed, that if twelve were nominated to :of the Household took place as a necessary part of ;in that House. ti was
.a principle, on the present
the Hon. Gent. opposite, came to a resolution to I the Cabinet, his Royal Highness was to have the' the measures of, such Administration* The Noble I occasion, studiously avoided. He admitted the great
address his Royal' Highness to form a 'more strong l disposal of five of them; and should thirteen be I Lords (Grey and Grenville), therefore, only de-, advantages to be derived from an admiiiistratio in
and efficient Administration, so that the great con- l found necessary, of these six were to be of the ap.. sired to know if they were to be permitted to use the, which there were no conthiteing seutiments: the Mem.
cerneof the nation might be dispatched with abilitylpoititment of his Royal Highness. The Noble Lords same powers usual .upon the change of every Admi- hers of whicii meet together will! co.nfidence, their
..
and confidence. • The Hon. Gent. (Mr. Wortley) he! considered the whole arrangement with due defer- nistration. There was not, therefore, any dell se habits, feelings, and political principles teeing the
now saw opposite to him, had been accused of , ence, and, in a consultation, they concluded upon very extraordinary or extravagant in this request. seme. Bat, wbile he allowed this, he did not mean
concerting the motion mutually between them, and', the following answer :—That they had contemplated The Noble Lord, (Moira) answered, that although to say,. that no good change, could he made its
he called upon that Hon. Gent. to declare npoiehis.ethe whole scheme with much attention, which had uninstructed upon this point, yet he himself the C binet, unless all the power_ were transferred to
'unsullied and spotless honour, as a Gentleman, been submitted to them ; that they were not deterred thought, upon public grounds, it could not
thebe the friends of the Right ilSal! Gentleman (Mr.
whether that ha had ever made any such communica- either from the distressed situation ef the Public, assented to. What then would the public or .
..Poiestreiby).—[ileareheerll—When tliecommissiott
tion, either with himself or with those with-whom he nor from the influences of private feeling, from ac- Parliament have thought of- these Noble Lords, was given to Marquis 'Wellesley, it was his opinion,
lived in the intiroacv of private and political friend.. ceping of the offers which had been made to them if they had come into office upon s refusal of the in which he' (Mr. Canniegaaerded, that an' Adminie
.
ship. The motion of the Address did not emanate .of being employed, where they might nave been ser- exercise of the same powers which were permitted striation, strong and efficiete, could not be selected,
from the side of the House on which he bad the viceable to their country ; but it appeared to them, to all other. Administrations ?-e-What could be more where a perfal unanimity of sentiment, on.alipeints,
honour of sitting, neither did it' find its strongest that a-stipulated number al Cabinet Councillors, to destructive?-..-what could be more opposite to the should prevail..prevail..Bet they eltieughe
_fleet a, Ministry,
support from those persone Ittsually denominated be retained for nomination by• his Royal *ighness, principles of the Constitationethan that- the Esecu- possessing nu inconsiderable -abillte mtg t• be

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