The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-07-10 00:00:00

RRCtlittt ORNttIL.

The Receivers General Bill west through a Committee.
Mr. HUME moved as amendments to certain clauses,
that the Treasury be empowered and nuthorised to
grant allowances to Receivers-0 I, at not less than
3001. nor more than 6001. ;—that Receivers-Oeneral be
restricted from acting by deputy except in cases of ill-
ness, or other sufficient temporary causes. , that the latter
part of the first clause be omitted, providing a food for
defraying the expense of the Iteceivertieneral; and that
the collection be made in the same way as the collec•
tioos of the Excise. In his opinion, Receivers-0 I
might be dispensed with altogether in f of Collec-
tors similar to those of the Excise.
Mr. LUSHOIOTON said, that the Hon. Gentleman
would scarcely think that Excise Collectors would an-
swer all the purpose of Receivers General, when he he
informed him that the difference of security which it was
thought right to require from those two classes of of-
ficers, was betwixt three hundred thousand and sixteen
million pounds. If it was thought requisite to take
sixteen minims from the Receivers-Beneral, it was ob-
vious their reepeasibility must be much greater than
what could be banded over to the Excise Collectors He
bad no objection to insert the elapse disabling Receivers
Orem) to act by deputy, except in cases of Obsess, and
to emit that part of the first clause objected to by the
Hon. Gentleman, but he could not tensest to his pro-
posed tiimisution of salary. If such were to be attempt-
ed, be was sate they would lose their best Receivers
General. The plan laid down is this Bill, be was
thoroughly convinced, was the best and cheapest that
could be adopted.
Mr. HUMS and Mr lATIIIIINGTON mutually explained.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT believed that within the last
six months the Reitiver-Oeneral is Ireland had been
abolished, and the money paid oe aceoest of taxes re-
mitted directly to the Bank of Ireland. If this mode
had bees adopted there, why mild not the same course
be taken in this constu.
Mr. LUSHINUTON said if the bind mode of collect-
ing the resume here were adopted it would measles
double—a Right Hon. Gentleman sear him, said four'
times—the expense. At all events it would be mach
mere expensive than the present mode of collection.
Mr. HUME was of opinion the reveoue might be col-
lected and transmitted to the Treasury without one far
thing expense.
After a farther conversation, in which Mr. Lesntwo-
TON, Si: C. LONG, Mr. Alderman WOOD, Mr. CALCIRAFT,
the Cnexcettoa of the EXCHISQVIII, sad Mr. Bairriar
participated, the CUAIRMAN reported progress, and ob-
tained leave to sit again that day.

and then allowed that accusation sts become a reset
for a permitsl mimic on that Member, there was ats Mid
t s the treedeas of their debates. There was aasther pub-
!leaden consented with the same subject. A letter up•
peered in the Courier newspaper of Monday last, signed
by Robert Menai'', and add ti to Mr. Abereromhy.
In that letter the writer made some comments on the
supposed speech of the Hon. Cien►lertan, and in conclu-
sion desired the Hon. Member is send a coo►radiction
of that speech, with the comments, to the editor of the
paper in which the speech appeared. This letter. with
the sopa er to it, and another letter with a commentary
on both. Wrestled to the Editor of the Carrier, were
polished in that paper. (The lion. Member here read
parts of these let tees.) The house had a right to inter-
f►re to prey •ut any dangerous consemnencee, when any
obsetvations within the walls of thtt house were made
a ground fur a peptone' attack on any of their Members.
It was dearly the meaning and intention of those letters
to make a personal attack grow out of the duty of a
Member of that house. His object was first to have the
lionise declare those passages whirls he read to be a
breath of the privilege of the house. His intention was
to follow up that declaration with ulterior proceedings.
Th• llon Member then bronght up the publications,
and moved that the offensive passages be read by the
Clerk.

Lord BINNING wished to know whether it was
mil in such cages to read the whole or some passages?

The SPEAKER was understood to say, that in strict-
ness it was usual to read the whole, but it might per-
Imps be as well to read the passages, which the Hon.
Member hail pointed out.
The CLERK having then read extracts from the letter
addressed by Mr. Hope to James Abercromby, Esq.
M. P.,
Mr. COURTENAY moved that the said exttacte,
rommenting on • spe,ch of a Member of that house,
be declared a breach of the privileges of the house.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said a few words,
but in so low a tone that we could not collect their
OWROWE.
The SPEAKER said that there were two courses,
either of which it was usual for the house to pursue.
The one was to declare the ob ions complained of
to be a breach of privilege, and then to follow that up
by ulterior proceedings. The other course was to sum-
mon the parties before the house, and ascertain by ex-
amining them at the Bar, whether the publication
amounted to a breach of privilege.
Mr WYNN said the bonse aught to he in p ion
of the whole of the letter before they came to any de-
cision. He recollected a ease in which the whole of a
pamphlet was read before the house decided it to be a
breach of privilege or not. That was certainly incon-
venient. But perhaps it would be better after the pre-
sent notice, to adjourn the further contdderation until
all the Members should have made themselves acqoaintrd
with the whole of the letter. He would not advocate a
breach of privilege. His Hon. Friend behind him had
given him an opportunity of seeing the whole letter,
but other Members had not the same opportunity. it
would be inconvenient to call fur a decision, until all ; e-
rased the whole letter.
Mr. TIERNEY said, that there could be no doubt
but the extracts read to the house were a breach of pri-
vilege. Bat perhaps the severity of that censure would
be softened by reading the whole of the publication.
It would not be right to pass a rote of censure withont
cause. If any Hen. Member thought the reading of
the whole publication would soften the censure which
was due to the part they had heard read, it was cou.pe.
tent for him to move that the whole be read. Let it not
be said they came to a decision without being acquaint-
ed with the whole letter.
Mr. WYNN expressed a wish to'adjourn the consi- .
deration of the subject, and he referred to the case of
Mr. Hobboase.
The SPEAKER said there were many precedents is
both the ways he before stated. First, be deciding that
the words were a breach of privilege, and then calling
on the parties to appear ; secondly, by calling the par-
ties to the Bar in the first instance, and then examining
them to see whether their conduct amounted to a breath
of privilege or not. The house noticed breaches of
privilege, not for the convenience of any Member, bat
to enable them to do their deity. They sate every day
some I • caches of the privileges of the house; but
these were not notified, as they were not attended with
any inconvenience. The house should keep distinct
those two points; first, the question whether the thing
was at all a breach of privilege; and, secondly, %%heftier
it was such a breach, as that it would be proper to no-
tice it or not. They should also take care that their
abstaining from noticing those breaches of privileges,
might not lead to the imputation of a doubt, existing in
their own minds, whether they possessed those privi-
leges or not.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY was understood
to say, that it was usual after bringing the subject
before the house, to postpone its consideration to an-
other day, that the house might decide on it with more
advantage.
The SPEAKER again explained the order of pro-
ceeding.
Mr. PEEL said, that if any analogy were to he drawn
from the conduct of the house in a ease where two of
its Members were concerned, to prevent the termination
of a difference which all must lament, it was certain
they might interfere in a case where but one of its
Members was concerned, though no breach of privilege
had been committed. But his object at present was to
urge that the same course should be pursued as in the
case of Mr. Hobhonse. which was one of gross and ob-
vious breach of privilege, namely—that it should be
postponed to a subsequent day.
Mr. TIF.RNEY thought the cases very distinct from
each other. That of Mr. Ilobhouse affected the general
character of the house in its corporate capacity. Toe
libel might lee explained away possibly. by stating the
motives and circumstances tinder which it w.es written.
But here was a case where there could he no doubt—a
case of an attack on a Member in the discharge of his
duty, and called on the house for prompt interference.
It was said, too, that they ought to delay their judg-
ment, and not make any order respeciing the attend-
ance of the absent Member, until that judgment was
passed. Suppose the Member. after that lapse, did not
appear, what would be the feelings el the house in
hitting slip the opportunity of preventing proceedings
which every man most Isment. Mottos there was a
1101114 that this %rasa libel, why refrain from prom:mutt-
ing an o
:Slpinion on it at onee ?
Mr. Mr N thought that enough bad been stated to
jostify the house in waking an order toe the attendance
of the Honourable Member (Mr. Abercromby.) This
he considereel to be necessary in the first instance, what-
ever might he the judguient of the house on the subject
of the breach of prisikee.
Mr. RANEE* said that this case differed from that of
Mr. llobbituse—it was au uhvioue breach of privilege.
But lie slid not think they ought to proceed in the first
instance to move fur the attendance of the ahsent Mem-
ber. 's bey ought to prt...red by reguiar steps.
Lord thoaglit the case of Mr. flulehouse
stool a to this, to ilt briny au .•ieritto. !teach of pi i si-
ker. The house did hesitate aisciy, and he thought
I they ought to do the same now.
Mr tiltoi:tillAM said that the house hail to limb at
dais case, first a, . Greaeu ot pen tree. incident to
which 'arcs a Cit.tt,C.. uf pet-se:Nil aitereAllUlM Lit them
first attr:rl to the wain tit). vice, and look upon the
other as an indoecinet.t to d-sp. c The I,bel of li.
llotrituttse nasof .t giqteral it tture. and to be resentrA
by the Louse. It Jed out .1:1•V.IL: to