The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-02-08 00:00:00

THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE

The proceedings of the Education Committee were read
The reports on the present state of the schools were to the
following effect : . . . . . .

North School: South School
Boys . . . 122
Girls . . . . 85
Infants . . . 94

Mr. MOLYNEUX moved the confirmation of the proceed-
ings, and in dying so took occasion to express a hope that
when the vacanciee should have been filled, and the schools
in regular order, there would be a great increase of children.

The MAYoa. read a letter he had received from the head
masters, Messrs. Meilson and Lewis, in which they stated
that they had not resigned their situations, and that they
begged to submit their protest to any reports to the contrary.
Mr. MoLYNEux said he had no objection to substitute
the word " dismissed" for " resignation" to the masters in
question. At the same time he wished to observe that the
six or seven gentlemen on the committee had decided that it
amounted to a resignation.
Upon the suggestion of Mr. PROCTER.
The TOWN-CLERK read the entry in the committee-book.
It was to the effect that Neilson and Lewis had been called
in, and desired to prepare a time-table, which they had de-
clined to do, and that they severally resigned their situa-
tions, which they were requested to state in writing.
Mr. HODGSON stated upon his honour that they had made
a distinct resignation.
Mr. EVANS said it would be a useless splitting of hairs to
continue a discussion as to whether they had resigned or
been dismissed ; he contended that there had been a virtual
dismissal, and te question was, whether they should receive
three months' salary or not.

The MAYOR corrected the speaker. There was no motion
or amendment to the effect, neither indeed was any motion
on the subject requisite, because the payment of the salary
seemed to have been agreed upon in committee, and was em-
bodied in the proceedings which had just been read.
Mr. EARLE said the council had got into confusion with
respect to the school question, and so long as justice should
be refused to the community, so long the subject should not
be considered to rest at ease. Large numbers of Roman
Catholic children had left the schools, and had been forced
into exclusively Catholic, where they would be precluded
from seeing any liberality. It had been said that religion
was at the bottom of the present system, but he thought that
the " craft and subtlety of the devil and man" bad been at
work against the schools as conducted under the late council.
He believed Mr. Hodgson to be sincere, for he had shown
his sincerity on a great number of occasions, but the persons
who instilled notions about popery having been taught in the
schools into his head knew that they were instilling falshoods.
He then remarked upon the placard which bad been issued
by the Education Committee in denial of certain misrepre-
sentations which had been circulated in reference to the
schools, and concluded by moving that the placard was totally
out of order, and that the Education Committee be ordered
to refund the expense of it.
Mr. BULLEY said he had implored of the committee not to
issue the placard. He wished to have two letters from the
masters of the South School, which had been read in commit-
tee, to be laid before the council. There was, he said, one
gentleman on the committee who always violated the prin-
ciples of decency and order.
Mr. HODGSON asked his name ?
Mr. BULLEY said it was Mr. Harbord.
Mr. HARBORD expressed his thanks to Mr. Bulley for the
public reproof he had the honour of receiving at his hands,
provided the gentleman had administered it in a christian
spirit, a question which he left the council to decide.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES contended that the schools had been
originally erected for the education of protestant children.
He had heard it reported that the radicals were determined
on agitating the school question with the view of regaining
their " Paradise Lost."
Mr. BRIGHT wished to know why the report of a Mrs.
Walsh, in connexion with the schools, had not been pre-
sented to the council ?
Mr. MoLYNEux denied that there had been any such re-
port, but said that Mrs. Walsh had given him a number of
testimonials as to character and ability, which had referred
to herself alone. (Hear.)
Mr. EVANS moved, as an amendment, that the proceed-
ings be confirmed. with the exception of that part of them
which appointed a superintendent over the schools at a salary
of £l5O a year. _ _ _ _

Mr. EARLE intimated at this stage of the proceedings that
he would withdraw his amendment and support that of Mr.
Evans. _ - • . _

a.
A long discussion ensued, in which Mr. Birkett, Mr. G.
H. Lawrence, Mr. Parker, Mr. Bolton, Mr. Hodgson, Mr.
Aikin, Mr, Turner, and Mr. Yates took part.
The question was then put, when there appeared for the
amendment, 14 ; against it, 28.
The following gentlemen voted in the division :
For it—W. Thornhill, W. Preston, J. Mellor, J. Holmes,
T. Bolton, J. Aikin, R. Bright, F. Jordan, J. Platt. T.
Holt, T. Buller, E, Evans, T. B. Barclay, and W. Earle.
Against it—Thomas Shaw, F. Shand, D. Hodgson, Isaac
Holmes, R. Houghton, H. Copeland, J. Edwards, R. B. B.
H. Blundell, J. Aspinall, J. Cooper, J. N. Wood, W. Bir-
kett, R. Gladstone, J. Procter, J. B. Lloyd, R. Rigby, J.
Kilshaw, J. Parker, G. H. Lawrence, A. Smith, jun., R.
Harbord, W. Nicol, J. H. Turner, T. Chilton, E. Molyneux,
R. S. Crook, and the Mayor.
The amendment was, consequently, lost, and the original
resolution carried.

The proceedings of several committees were next read,
without comment. _ _

The DEPUTY TOWN-CLERK read a memorial which had
been received from the Rev. 'William Parker, of St. Patrick's
Roman Catholic Chapel, Toxteth-park, and which had been
presented by Mr. Aikin, complaining of certain expressions
reported to have fallen from Mr. Harbord and Mr. Moly-
neux, on a former day, in reference to his conduct in the
Corporation Schools. He denied that he had been guilty of
the misconduct attributed to him, and he hoped the council
would acquit him of the alleged charges.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE hoped, after having heard what the
rev. gentleman had to say, that the council would proceed
with the regular business on the paper, and he made a motion
to this effect.

Mr. HARBORD and Mr. MoLYNEux re-stated what they
had said on the previous day, and assured the council that
they had authority for what had fallen from them on that
occasion.

Mr. HODGSON moved, as an amendment, that the memo-
rial be rejected.
M. SIIAND seconded the motion.
The question was then put, when there appeared—
For the amendment, 20—Against it, 17.

The following gentlemen voted in the division :
For it—Thomas Shaw, F. Shand, D. Hodgson, H. Cope-
land, J. Edwards, T. Sands, J. Aspinall, J. Cooper, J. N.
Wood, W. Birkett, R. Gladstone, J. B. Lloyd. J. Kilshaw,
J. Parker, R. Harbord, R. Houghton, T. Chilton, E. Mo-
lyneux, R. S. Crook, and the Mayor.
Against it—lsaac Holmes, W. Thornhill, W. Preston, J:
Mellor, J. Holmes, T. Bolton, J. Aikin, R. Bright, R. V.
Yates, J. Priestley, G. H. Lawrence. F. Jordan, J. Platt,
A. Smith, jun., E. Evans, W. Earle, and J. H. Turner.
The amendment was consequently carried.
Mr. Harbord's election to the Education Committee was
confirmed.

A. memorial from Dr. Freckleton, touching the sale of the
Botanic Gardens to the Council, was referred to the Finance
Committee. _

__________
A motion by Mr. LLOYD, for granting 50 guineas to the
Eastern Dispensary; and a motion of Mr. PLATr, for grant-
ing £lOO to the Southern and Toxteth-park Hospital, both
to be continued subject to annual consideration, were referred
to the Finance Committee.

The Council broke up at a quarter to five o'clock, having
sat nearly six hours !

THE ANTI-CORN-LAW BAZAAR

(For the Liverpool Standard.)
The Anti-Corn Leaguers in " Conference " met,
To plan the best way the money to get.
Agitation, they say, does a vast deal of good :
But who agitates for another man's good ?

The six hundred noodles, who lately met,
Have done us no good. but run us in debt;
For, according to Cocker, at ten pounds a-piece,
There is six thousand pounds for that flock of geese.

Without the steam the engine would stop,
And the League without money would very soon drop
To " raise the wind " we must rack our brain,
And who can plan better than " rogues in grain"?

One 's for a concert and one 's for a ball,
But the Quakers turned pale at the mention of all :
Some called for sermons, and after collection;
Said the Socialists No, we have an objection.
Mrs. M— said, if George, dear, a lecture would give,
The cash would still flow, and the League would still live ;
I'll do it, said George, if the tickets you'll sell—
The price half a crown, and we'll soon make it tell.
The lectures were given in many a town ;
The money was called for, but did not come down ;
And some other plan must these wise heads contrive,
Or the League through the session will never survive.

I've hit it, said Thompson—hurrah ! hurrah !
We'll call on the ladies, and have a Bazaar :
They will supply us with trinkets most rare,
And we can get plenty of Brummagem ware.
The ladies political quite liked the job,
From simple M`li—w to bold Mrs. Cob--;
And Misses by dozens are very soon got,
Who are anxious, at least, to sell one single lot !

The money is raised, but the people still groan :
While crying for bread, they give them a stone.
The money is spent to keep up agitation :
The poor may still grumble and starve through the nation

DEATH BY DROWNING:—An inquest was held yesterday,
before Mr. Curry, on the body of Susannah M`Donald. The
deceased was the wife of John M`Donald, a rigger, residing
in Clement-street. She was 51 years old. A boy belonging
to a flat, found the body on Saturday night in the canal,
quite dead. She was seen previously at the wooden bridge of
the canal, which was then partly open, and the man who saw
her warned her of her danger, and fixed the bridge so that
she safely passed it, and they then took different roads.—
Verdict, that the deceased was found drowned.

COMMITMENT.—Thomas MiKnight and Margaret Mann
were yesterday, at the Police Court, committed for trial at
the Sessions, on a charge of stealing a unantity of clothes from
a house in Harly-street.—Sarah M`Faster was also com-
mitted for robbing a gentleman of his watch, in a house in
Leander-street.—

DEATH FROM BURNING.—An inquest was held yesterday,
on view of the body of Edward M`Glore. The deceased,
who was four years old, was left by his mother, in a room
which they occupied in Marlborough-street, along with two
younger children ; she went out to make some purchases.
During her absence the deceased was heard by a female
neighbour to cry out
" Oh mother ! mother !" and on run-
ning in she found him in a blaze. Tiie fire was extinguished,
but he was so severely burnt, that though assistance was got,
be died in about three hours after. There was but a poor fire
in the grate.

CORRESPONDENCE.

TO THE REV. THOMAS YOUENS, D.D.

LETTER 111

RI:V. have attentively perused your litter which
appears in the Albion of yesterday, and as the subject mat-
ter of it is distinct from that on which I had purposed to
have addressed you, I shall occupy this letter in attempting
to reply to everything therein which calls for remark.

Notwithstanding your resolution " to take no further no-
tice of any future anonymous correspondent," (which, by
the way, is somewhat rash,) I must remain under the veil
of " Baptistes." In doing so I am influenced by the fol-
lowing considerations. Hitherto I have not made any state-
ment which can be regarded as personal testimony ;—my
name and station would not add one iota to the probability
of my statements, every reader having Opportunity to exa-
mine for himself, and being welcome either to refute or reject
my arguments, as he may possess either ability or inclina-
tion. I have reasons, too, of a prlvate nature, which lead
me to decline being introduced to the public " in propria
persona" ; and an introduction to you would be " a work
of supererogation." We have met before ; and I trust that
although we meet in conflict, this is not our " Philippi."
You say, Baptistes
" Directs my attention to a certain part of Mr. M'N.'s
" letter, which he wishes me to notice in my reply to that
" gentleman. * * * As the part of Mr. M'N.'s letter
" to which he refers appeared to me to be a divergence from
" the real question between us, I did not consider it worthy
" that attention," &c.
Excuse me, my dear sir, but one of us must be labouring
under delusion, and that to a marvellous and alarming ex-
tent! I have sought with the utmost diligence, but cannot
find any such reference as the one discovered by you, and
feel persuaded that it would be one of the most difficult
tasks you could undertake, to place the sentence in question
within " inverted commas." Nay ! so utterly at a loss am
I, that both your meaning and allusion appear to be buried
in that entangled web whereby counsel is darkened " by
words without knowledge." It was distinctly stated, that
my motive in addressing you was to solicit a more careful
examination of the premise from which YOU drew a con-
clusion, &c. In the last sentence of my letter a hope was
expressed that YOU would shew us more tenable grounds
for YOUR opinion. As to the " divergence," however, as
I have no taste for purely imaginative pursuits, I leave the
discovery thereof to those who may be inclined to enter upon
the search, trusting that the individual who is so fortunate
as to detect it will apprise " Baptistes of the fact.
You then recapitulate all you have to say respecting
" The Ephesine Fathers," which I leave in the hands of Mr.
M'Neile.

You discovered (probably simultaneously with all my
readers) that " there appears 'to be considerable confusion
" and indistinctness in the mind of-Baptistes. * * *
" Baptistes seems to think• that in my remarks on Mr.
" M‘N.'s speech I endeavoured to establish as a principle,
" that a numerical majority in favour of any opinion is evi-
" deuce of the truth of that opinion. I beg leave to inform
" Baptistes that I never advanced such a proposition, nor
" endeavoured to establish such a principle ; nor am I aware
" of any expression used by me, which could authorise him
"to suppose that such was my opinion." Now one of the
following consequences must result from the above. Either
your mind or mine must be the prey of most unaccountable
" confusion and indistinctness," or either you or I have a
most extraordinarily short memory. On either the one or
other one of us must be impaled ; for I must be excused
maintaining, that you placed the following upon record (first
premising that the italics, &c., are of my own marking) :
"We will now proceed a step further. Suppose that I ad-
" dress myself to ten individuals, with a view of proving to
" them that my opinion is right. If by my arguments I satisfy
" two of them that I am in the right, then it is clear that
"my opinion is proved to these two. But the circumstance
" of its being proved to two of the number, whilst there re-
" main eight who see no force in my arguments, is no trite-
" rion that the two who agree with me are in the right, and
" that the eight dissenters are wrong. The PROBABILITY
" is, that the dissentients, BEING THE MORE NUMEROUS,
" are in the right; and that I and my two friends, notwith-
" standing my proof, are in the wrong.

" To prove-doctriUes from Scripture is, therefore, no evi-
" dence whatever that these doctrines are in accordance with
" Scripture. It only amounts to this, that we have induced
" others to adopt our opinions on the subject. If, indeed,
" my arguments appear conclusive to the generality of man-
" kind, this affords strong presumption of the truth of my
" opinions. If, on the other hand, I have argued with many
" and convinced few, the presumption lies the other way.
Remarks, p. 8.

The fallacy of the majority being considered probably right
on account of their numbers, irrespective of other considera-
tions, was exposed in my first letter. Had I been aware,
however, that the portion of the pamphlet from which the
above is selected was considered by you as " a battery of
argument," (Observations, p. 3,) a little hesitation on my
part would have been prudent. No damage, however, has
as yet been sustained, excepting that the " divergence" is
still "mining." You go on to state :

" We will now take the liberty of applying this PRINCIPLE
" TO TEST the truth of those religious opinions which Mr.
" M'N. is in the habit of enforcing. * * *
. .

" Well, what success has the Established Church of Eng-
" land had in proving the truth of her own religious princi-
" pies ? * * * Has she induced all Englishmen at home
" or in the colonies to acknowledge her authority and adopt
" her principles ? Quite the contrary. Both at home and
" abroad THE DISSENTIENTS ARE ON THE INCREASE, AND
" ORTHODOXY ON THE WANE."

If this be not applying the " principle" of numbers as a
criterion to judge of truth, you would place me under an obli-
gation by stating what meaning you intended to convey by
the language employed. There is nothing in the context to
lead either me or any one else to conclude that you were
amusing us with allegory, or that you intended to string a
number of words together, to show with what dexterity the
feat may be accomplished without conveying any meaning.
May I be allowed to suggest, that in future you notify such
as being your intention in the margin, thus giving your read-
ers the option of either reading to admire, or passing over to
spare time.
In the letter before me, you fall back upon " the strong
presumption," and thereby involve yourself in the gross ab-
surdity of attempting to establish a positive conclusion from
a presumptive premise I ! The principle by which you at-
tempted to test the reformed faith, you now confess had no
other foundation than a " strong presumption." This, from
its very nature, admits of doubt; therefore is, in fact, no
TEST. In your " Observations," (p. 4) you say it is. a
question of the deepest importance," " a great question."
In the letter before me you say—" Truths of the highest im-
" portance require evidence peculiar to themselves," and you
say truly ; but why, with this conviction upon your mind,
why did you produce only " strong presumptive evidence!
The highest and most convincing authority to be adduced,
as to the inconclusiveness of presumptive evidence, how
strong soever it may be, is the fact, that if either you or I
were arraigned for a capital offence, and the strongest ima-
ginable presumptive evidence adduced against us—upon our
proving a clear " alibi," we should be at once acquitted
without blemish and without stain.
The test by which you ought to have measured the reformed
faith is the SCRIPTURES ! Centuries before John \Vickliff
or Martin Luther appeared, an unfortunate, a despised, and
a persecuted race of human beings suggested this as the test
by which they desired their faith to be tested by the emissa-
ries of your church. The latter chose the more silencing, if
not the more convincing, weapons of fire and sword, and the
Piedmontese Protestants, though " cast down," were not
" forsaken ;" they were destroyed, yet behold they live !
Prove (said they) that the doctrine of your church is the doc•
trine of the Scriptures, and we reiterate the request.
Nothing more than proof can be adduced, nothing less can
be admitted.
Again, you say—" I indeed acknowledged, that in case a
" man's arguments appeared conclusive to the generality of
" mankind, this circumstance, " &c. Now, -on turning to
your " Remarks," (p. 9), in order to discover what you
mean by " generality of mankind," I find you mean " any
" one nation," " all Englishmen;" but so long as the re-
formed faith is held by even a small majority, your test is
only presumption after all, therefore no test.
On this most important subject let me beg of you to climb
out of the Valley of Presumption, where every step you take
is in darkness, every breath uncertainty : besides, it is pain-
ful.to see you struggle and contend "as one that beateth the
" air." Do not content yourself with propounding " Non
" Sequiturs :" leave them in the valley.
I receive the information contained. in the close of your
letter in the spirit you intended. Youii.nagined it was needed
by me, and, as a Christian minister, it is as much your duty
" to be instant in season and out of season," as it is " to
" contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints;"
and that you may, ere long, be engaged in that bloodless
warfare, is the sincere desire of your obedient servant,
BAPTISTES.
Liverpool, 2d February, 1842.