The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-02-28 00:00:00

.

~

,pee

liament, that matters of privilege
all other quest.ons. lie put
or not they wistied that the'
—(A general cry of, Go
Mr. LA MBE thought that

more grave and solemn reason
. than that lion. Members were
of -the evidence on the subject.
one of a novel nature, and
a precedent. It was not therefore
due regard to the privileges
so suddenly and hastily it
• Mr. W. WYNNE woak
slop of the House on the qt It .was ad-
mitted by those who were the meg ' to forin
an opinion upon it, to be oue considerable
difficulty, and ke thought ti could er
refuse to listen to the argut the '
Hon. Gentlemen.for postponement they con-
sidered how short a time a papers
been on the tittle, how recently printed copies
them had been put into the hands of Members, am.
how important a piece of evidence yet remained to
be received. He (Mr. W. 'Wynne) suggested the
propriety of the immediate producticni of the letter
written by Mr. Walsh to his.. brother. That letter
might be read., and ordered tq be printed. A suffi-
cient time Might be given to allow of a comparison
of tout-litter with the other documents, and of an
• examittarteu'of: the Journals, as to fiptoceed:
ings on-shiftily cases; and thus full tit on the
aohjedt, the House might teems to VlllO4llOlBlllll de-
cision upon it antis tl;ey:seistM eit the present °era-
sio4l.
,1I r. BATHURST.eras of opinion that the case was
quite stroug enough without the production of Mr.
Walsh's letter. Still, if lion. Gentlemen thought
that the other dotuuseists had not been printed long
enough-.to allow chill estaniiikation of their nature
and creitents a short ,postpistroont taiiiht With OP,
priety be ace to. He depsVekted,,.however, any
unnecessary delay on 'so 4se ect, and one
which so ilea rly implicated p e iri/fg character
. s•
.of the House, .. •
The Order of the Day having beau rfat,
Mr. BANKES observing, that he Was oue--of the
last men who would wish tp be too hasty in presing
such a question, expressed his intention of postponing
the decision of it until Monday.
The SPEAKER. apprehended, that-as the business
'was not then tube concluded, it would be necessary.'
to make a fresh order for the attendance of Mr.'
'Walsh in his place on Monday. In the first place;
however, it would be expedient td ascertain whether
Mr. Walsh had been served with the order of the
IITIze) requiring his attendance in his place on this
day.
One of the Messengers was called to the Bar.
The SPEAKER.—cc Mr. Skelton, have you serval
Mr. Benjamin Walsh, a Member of this House, wills
the Order of the House, requiring his attendance id
his place on this day ?"
Massetesitt.-,-“ Yes, Sir, I have. I saw Mr.;
.Walsh yiiterday Morning at ten o'cl6ek, and he told.
me he had received from his brother the Order whist
I left at his house on Tuesday. night."
The Messenger haring withdrawn, M. Jenkins,
the Solicitor, was, on the motion of Mr. Battkes,
called to the Bar.
The SPEAKEite.-"r. OSi- were the
Solicitor to the prosecution3l
against r. Benjamin
Walsh, a Member of this House?"
Mr. Jcsisivs.—" Yes, Sir."
The SPEAKEtt.,-.44 Have you brought with you
he letter mentioned in the Order df this House,
purporting to be a letter from Mr. Benj. Walsh to
his brother 2-"
• Mr. I. here."
The SPEAKER......“.-Ari ydu acquainted with the
hand-writing of Mr.2Walsh?"•
r. J No'? I am not.".
The SPEAKER..--" Is there any body with you
who is acquainted with it .'
Mr. Ji.:actsts.--. Yes Mr. Attride."'
Mr. ATTRIDI appeared at the Bar.
The SPEAKER,.---.46. Mr. Attride-' are you ac-
quainted with the hand-writing of Mr. Benjamin
Walsh ?"
Mr.- Armin," Yes.
-The. SPKAILER..-0 Have Ton ever seen him
wrttpt".:, . •

0

Mr...Arreret.—(4 I have."
'tbe SPEAKER..—" Look at that letter, and in-
form the House, whether it is the band-writing of
, Mr. Bertjamia Walsh ?"
;Mr. Arm' ot--" I believe it is."
The SPEAKER.—" Do you entertain any doubt
on the subject ?—Look at the whole of the letter."
Mr. ATTRIDE.--4 I have no doubt that this is
Mr. Walsh% hand-writing
The SPEAlildt.-.," Have you ever seen that let-
ter before ?"
•r”.".
Mr. ATTRIDE.—IL - ten".
The SPEAKER.-• Mr. Jenkins, were you at
lbe MILO
Mr. Jowl
The SP(
livered into •
Mr. Jr.xs.ttts.—'
The SPEAKER.—A%
been ever 9.
...Mr. JE!
The Sr
delivered
trial of MI
- Mr. Jr.t.
The Wit,
The letter
the Clerk. citif
Mr. BAZI
Mr. LQCIIII
agree to the
tertaiw tha
woaki bf
Hotter, ank,
with the dpit
The • SPt)
part sof the
decision t
• • it *Quid
came to
part.
Mr. LOCKILABT
- Away to be received r
• jeeted most strcrnel:

:

...

'r - .

''MME

ANl=mw

•

,

-111,

ab ---,-, .0, us.
Honse did _. tam the Cheggpfif after-
wardsto threwit out is not being on sidlrcieritgrotinds; ''resPect the succours to be granted to Spain, on
and decided that only those chargeacould be enter- that occasion ; and he remembered having almost
tamed which were founded on traosaCtictns infamous . been Cried down, for asking, whether it was not a tem..
in a public point of View, All iiiektranSactions re ; votary ebullition in .Spain rather than a permanent
-*
solved themselrats into four clasie".. The first! cases ' feeling ? Ministers. Were accordingly excited to make
-
of persons'
who were found itifernent 'by, the records great exertions. ... The Spanish GoveinMent issued
of their convictions in CriminaL.Csaurts eflaw ;. se- Pescclamations full
_of energy, but never acted up
loodly, cases of persons Who hid been in Open re-
to them. They ;stead it to be to call oat five bun.
bellion ; thirdly, cases of perso'•" ''.. 'Of corrupt ''illtea• mid at/ titotteand Men. Under all the eir
en jelittsa
and improper practices, *s M - f Howe • -coasabluces.ef theie.'thites he did not blame Mi.
.- ' ''issues f
and fourthly, cases f Persons . Of ..fences or hit*ing to co-operate with:the
against the public. Never, bower*, writ a eilaiie Spitalifirs is allies.:- to prdceeded" to •go 'over the
entertained founded on a dishonest. transaction ki. trots tree camPaikei in Spain, touching on the first
tween man and man. To entertain such charges ;. landing of Sir- Arthlir Wellesley in Mondego Bay,
would be to make the House • •,41 • Ibiv-mupereessiOn by Sir ' Ilirry Buriard and Sir
Court of Judicatere, auth( 7aliymple, the battle of Vimiera, the Con-
private transaction that was df Ciento • the otnissiort of affording any as-
and the ultimate; imposes tc to 'Castanets immediately 'after that period;
might be applied no one could ditutrate march of' General Moore through
be productive of enormous; the' deter' nen the Spaniards experienced in
dent, and he , therefore .pieliteo Orel' ', the ''opening of the second campaign
of a Committee, before a preen' firth'ur Wellesley ; his pursuit of. Soult over
calculated lobe so injurious itsJure ; his 'imprudent march to Talavera; the
The CHANCELLOR of is horde Of "Talavera, &c.• He then oon-
confessed himself unable to e IheitiOtivel whiCh led to the expedition to
the other documents on the! 41Cheldt. These were asserted to be for the per-
why the ordering of the li of :creating a diversion in favour of Austria,
more` completely to entertiv 'ed in a war with; liuniparte, which, he would
ovderlog -of the printing of th 'sters the justi&t to say, they had been for
lion—Gent. seemed to fiat lsisink her to hurry. into. During the opera-
from the Chair. The chard ,f the Austrian Army (with the exception of
fore the House in a shape ig diversion by Sir J. Stuart), not a shot had
would it be so until there wt fired by the 'British, although their aid was
ject. lie apprehendecktlitt 'alled 'for by their Allies.. But, after the
proposition had moved ter the !It:Writs• had been sealed, by the battle of
the Judge's letter, &c. and ha' ~, the .unfortunate expedition to the Scheldt
commits be printed—that he '417, hid - been • Productive' of 'no effect
menses at the bar—that he ha' ,ss •or -.11,000 brave men, whose loss
them Mr. Walsh's letter to rPtht been avoided, if a... Right Honourhble
now moved that that letter be printed—au for vie Gentleman, then a Secretary of State, hpd.conke for-
purpose of taking these preliminary step WhiCh wall and declaredliiconviction of the incapacity of
would enable the Hoise to judge whether or not the the. Noble Lord afthe head of the War Dis_ part-
charge ought to be entertained. The printing of the .meat. InateTtd,hciwever, of impeaching that Noble
letter could by no means prejudge 'the question of tbid or Ms 'colleagties, l'arliament passed a Vote of
entertaining the charge. He had no difficulty in ad- AP/Abe/Ms •of the toesente. Was-not that a ground
mitting that the question was one of .very grave con- :for sett Enquiry In* 'ilia' Stitte .of the Nation ?
sideratism, and that the Houie must well weigh how ',[/ tosigkj-7-The 'Noble Lord might. laugh at the
far they could with safety and propriety adopt • Vie ' tensitteilkffan'ihil 'be. was Invulnerable : but what
charge without establishing a precedent which might ; would British Mitonals sttY of the unparalleled
be found productive of serious inconvenience. I Vote of APprobtifisidef Peninment, after the waste
Mr. WYNNE, observed, that by what beets al. of so much blond eta treasure 3' By the place which
ready done, the letter must appear on the Journals, the Noble Lord. occupied in the House, he was
and must be transmitted to posterity, as having been , alsPrehrnsiiti.ithet. the
.'Noble Lord' would soon
received and read in the House, just as completely )'return to: Piiwer. In . that case, the Cabinet
as if it were ordered to be printed. The objection would very Kim become more warlike, the cape-
might with more propriety have been made to the ' ditions more. Treivent, and the consequences of
motion on Tuesday for its production. I them more fatal. 'lie thep adverted to the question
The letter was then ordered to be printed. of'the nature of the' co-operation which the Spaniards
The SPEAKER said, I that this was the proper afforded: What was the present situation of the
time to acquaint the House, that he had received two i country ?---There were only two or three towns in
letters from Mr. Walsh, intimating his intention of the possession of the Spanish Government. It became
not appearing in his place, but not ascribing that in-rnecessnry to ask, therefore, whether it was expedient
teation to any bodily inCapacity. As he could not ++ that this'cointry should, proceed with the contest,
find in the Journals any precedent of a written de- 1 the expeOces Of which were so enormous, and the
fence having been received from Members, who, hay-! issue of which likely
.to be so unfavourable ?—But
ing been ordered to attend, failed to do so, without Ihe should be told that the Government' of Spain
attributing his non-attendance to bodily incapacity, was changed, and that greater exerthinh.might be
he would not read those. letters,. unless it were the expected from the new Governmen.t.. He feared it
pleasure of the House that he should do so. would not be so—he hoped ii 'might be so. But he
On the motion of Mr. BANKES, Mr. Benjamin did -not think that such a hope, contradicted by
Walsh was ordered to attend in .his place on Mon- such hang eaperieice, was a sufficient inducement to
•
daY. . ' this country to continue to' bear those extreme
On the motion of Mr. H. THORNTON, various I heavy burdens which she had hitherto' endured.—
Accounts of the official' value of Exports and Int-.
'
The lion: Baronet wished to ask, whetherthe present
porn for the last four years) were ordered to be laid (Government in Spain was more active and More ener-
before the House. i getic, so as to lead to a probable 'hope that the wishes
The Committee on the Irish Population Bill was 1 of our Government would eventually be carried into
postponed to Monday. effect. Tir that question he would answer himself,
STATE OF THE NATION. certainly pot. Their conduct in ever] respect had
Sir T: TURTON allowed; that when he recol- skowe ft—they interdicted. the Liberty of the Press,
lccted the talents and eloquence of those great men they refaiod, our offered .niediation with retpeet to'
who on firmer occasions had submitted to the House i South Aineriello Instead of attending to our cont-
. "te respecting t' La Pena,
_.with

ief
at
somethalexipng:cetchretraiewhowiniluemedaasfirnrseunsdEid:anont done speedily
. the army,
innesotwitfnahootne
sereruodsrerfl‘Be,fi:trmui
atee entaweTsechlha
c.
4 would
tnistrationgiovnferhitdishiectbsjr:easrthei:
arid he
punishing juries who
he
tiroyenretecit maintained, nttaheinedrea,
five
)m documents which he
;loft, -he knew no real
America, which he men
it contended that the dis:
more than a war of words, ;
The relaxation of the
rule of war adopted
. that a Bellgerent
should not be justified in time of war in depart-
ing from the situation which he occupied in the
time of Peace. He was aware that it was a
subject which required great consideration, and seri:
ous deliberation. With respect to the Orders in
Council, the latter of those, of the 11th November,
was issued in consequence of the enemy having de-
clared the ports of England in a state of blockade.
The law of retaliation, by this country having the
power in her own hands to carry the system of
blockade into effect, was a just mashre; and in so
doing, this country- had a grand and famous prece-
dent, in the confederacy against Louis XL V. for the
same reasons which urged the adoption of the present
Orders in council,—namely, that the overwhelming
tpewer of that Monarch threatened the repose of Eu-
irope. Putfendorf and
.other writers had admitted
.thavalidity of, this pretext; but the other order was
lan iafringement of the 11th. Art. of the: Treaty of
18062 which provided that America should. trade
with any colonies belonging to the enemy, open pay-
ing an ad valorem duty on the articles traded in, and
this, what he must term a eitiftil expedient, a
I sum of about 30,0001. was. 64011).0d...the -quarrel
; between the two countries commenced.% -Bonaparte
I had rescinded his Decrees, but instead of rescinding
our Orders, to relieve the distresses of our inanufac-
turers, they were. pertinaciously' adhered to ; they
I were not, as the Right Hon. Gentleroan had :stated,
ithe bona
.fides, but-the wtala fades of this country.—
' When he examined the docnments- published: to all
the world, inttespect to the dismission& with Mr.
Monroe, be gathered from them, that se fey from
conciliation being the disposition of the Government,
the contrary was the case. He, • hovietar,..,Cenjured
the House to pause; before they !to act
hostilely towards America. As to. the situation of
i Ireland, how had the question respeting' 11 situa-
:llan of that portion of .thi Iluitbal Empire been
treated ? The lima* bad refised to entertain en-
' quiry on what was stated to be Catholic Concessions,
I but was that a reason for refusing to enquire into the
•ttate of her Commerce and' Trade, into the State of
EduCtition of her Youth, and into iarioqs other
t matters co netted with the happiness of She; people?
Was nothlog-to.be done to atheliorate 'their coudi.
tion 2 The IrOn. %moat aatzrted 'to .the situ-
etion of thistountry, in respect4othe state of its com-
memo and resourees Which Oewlluld class isuder two
heads ; namely, the number if-Len, and the ex-
pences. The army, including" the. Local Militis
(which he put at 200,000), .amounted, in the aggr:
gate to 807,000 men, drained front a • population--
in England of about six millions, 'to which might be
added two millions from Ireland, making; iu the
whole, eight millions of persons. The army, there•.
fore, was about one-tenth of the whole of this malt-
: population, abstracted from the pursuits of agricu
tore, 'and other means of labouring industry.
was aware that the answer to these obtervatol
would be, " Why, this war is unprecedentedin
annals of the country • besides, the temper and sit
trit of the people are Military." Bet beyond this
. the adults available for service, one out of eves
I fourth-or fifth was liable. The expence of suppolt
lag this vast force Was little short in the last year c
31 millions sterling; above' seven millions stela
more than the expeuditere for the army its 18
j With respect to the debs, the unfunded and unlit
deemed debt inlBll, was not less,than 650 millions
being an increase of 114 millions since the coo
ineneement of the war. Ity- looking, therefore, •
'this increased expenditure,. he had great appre.
lension that, whatever might be the wishes art.
intentiolts. ',towards. Spain, the resources of ti
i,country could not be comoiepsurate with tho-t,
wishes ; it would become the 'House to • see Whether
the country, in future, would be enabled. to Meet tk-
expences of the war. What wistheiituation of the
&gantry to warrant this enormous ey.pence? The
revenue which he collected from the papers to the s:h
Jan. 1812, was this : the surplus of the consolidated
fund iounted to 2,87310001. less, than the Preceditt4
short"

. - .
, -
. .
. . • .
-•-.• . . . .
it -'. • trATESMAN
.
, _
- .
.____.... , • .. , ._
. ...... ___ ____ __
1 toilow—,memapt- e Baronet. here entered into I ireview of the tribnted to d
-•— •----......,-...jegracei,
and
to
th
rivilege took precedence of only evidence of a most illshonoulaisle -•-. Aits reasections of the last six years, of which *re shall 'He dreaded that if something
.. ... tent ourselves with a ve4 slight sketch. He to allay the discontents in the
ut it to the House whether transaction between one individual-rind'
re business should proceed? hoped the Honourable Gentleman did ad.
nitis t‘lie termination of the Negotiation for
addnee it iii support of the record of lllK,Waillit's btlPa
on, go on !) than had already happeued we
, , otos off, Bonaparte marcheylgeinet:Vensila. more than any other cause,
hat there could not be a eeiViciiell• "e. uld elboSelte doily, terfthe Cod. In 190. Alter that negociatiou was inshep; had 'contributed to raise app.(
altHeolief tinikpower was unpitieV-bet tit its coat-'•the Government in the admin
Cason assigned for delay; MOP 0'64, • . • . • : • tot* asp
were not in full possession, mike iiitint4al t. • ,4, .te4ter ills 4- t
. I.
~ NO epsediction of Sully, that Francerookl
. t eue'clat %Assess universal dominion on the Continent had gone against their wishes i
prudence of the country, by
isject. The question Jose ve•net. • _- • . ... • !mrteioqi ii).
1 would therefore establish Hoisse to acquieschni its the ftiltitnite proPonithrts
herefore consistent with a derilitlineriseereeiednow....-These, .. ... . . ..• . . ... • ',evil*. A $0,11.° ircifettilk , reiosis.the Advocate-General was concet
TWheailligesou. Baer!
sof the House to proceed House wouldeppohd ftitconi,lsee.
in the determination of it. cedents, in order' tbg ditcotee wiefiret4- ilea
Id notnotieipate the : ' titiougatitaiutt%
...11h, ,
•r iyilisso.uaLitLy leadimob,4.__Y-abeelx)sef,Pre,,....
_would4rozerit.g_the Bar fret
• fitilZ• Bas stud
miftli4 e'44eiftperiMiteeepl"inisolNY'UCrilat•Brislatii2dtaili,betliiralgt Grnrueacht ftaientsw.-asEsAfro:
question. itself. it .was ad- had eyey. helikeVrrpi,ito , prrrftie.: ae ye, ders in CocificjitAkepfts,dcterTvgeij.iTilps c—ounlii bed iii blicpossetiioq,...-.ln shi
(its_
1 ,:tion undertaken by tre
and
Ministers, was that tuations of this country and A
_
ti,.0700,1 eliq. Ito assume toi atfi. tu. Shost•advanlageolfts' to resist the
. benefit.that could result from
tha mot competent to forts ther-ptiiierkne hell everoprolio.,
e one of very considerable *lO4 Xei:lllVlo.6wtilfe .-4?C•lii •111811141964. .
f/vei., ifliir er aggreas?nnoc 7rance. 1..115. first experli-Idia Conquests. •He then adve
that the House could pat 101TAqttidtIV*1;911e LI Aqiil aggVi ' d'l' Vot
1
scents urged by the two .had nsa_44.4l(igeni to
.0.11:4h4. 'se ..414 _aid jialiaista Gaiienballeot -ale? which ?fte owed it to truth boned. with g;eiit respect, but
441. and justiae.to say, wifts, in hie opinion, highly men- cussious had been nothing mo
ionement; when they eon. could taa pasty quo cO,se in Oseryiiiir Z•' 01*. ..,
wit
L-vomptiiisa 9( trawls!, totibes, 'Soon • after • this, occurred • the' resistance wrathful in some instances.
a part of the papers had Sir . tawiftlhßinai li
cently the printed copies o_f ,and Oilol /lar the-part.',.af Ati. sink loiltiai liimseltt:ift SOUR. to the .designs of Bonaparte. There was .conteet arose from 'the Tr
Le hands of Members, and i the Hon*. did enterfain de iiiii*iiiittheY after-'; but one •-heart. and ; mind in thii country with iu SIMI; which provided,
_ _ _ . • . . . _. _ _ 2—•.____,_ .1_ • :.nouns' *A the. atirrnii ra fn ho aril Moil fn tZnnin nn ehnnisul nn. h. ;..,ir:44,...1 :... 411,

se of COnrons grit •ME sUperoessil
wised to =Mille enig'..'neteliYfe
allegectio\ be impinger ili,keitren CI!
to which such a power. manes to Ci
Id foresee; Unit' it would the unfoituni
I, inconvennnce was evi- Spain.; the' d
ised I
theappoititMeli.t.lhat. march
tweedeat establiihedr. hy.Sirhrthui
to Its consomenaue. the Pew° ; t
of the EX,tingIVP,R ; glorious bat'
listinguish thi‘ lettirl4:4ol' tfideied • the ty
subject, or toemde'riwot the SCheldt:.
mer Co be minted wait vise of :crest
sin the charge}' than the.' involved in a •
he other docUMents. The I dO Ministers
re misconceived, whit fell from advising
e was not at present be- j time of the
to be entertaked, nor I a trifling' ive!
yak a motion on the mat_ been fired b
t• the Iron. More; of the called
the record of 'Convictii-im;t fate of Aastri
had moved thatAssado- wetram, the
he had exarfinillitA. Ws::: tilted, which
iad'obtained frosts One of
but --the los!
his brother, and that he would have
•