The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-07-02 00:00:00

THE StATESNtAg

might be placed. He wished to tette the present opportu-
afty oT giving as. eepleseaticht of whet be Old We. foraer
evening, and of correcting as 'ertoneon impression of his
tentinlents, which' had gone forth to the public. The en-
sues, which an lien. Friend of his, end a Mensheri gave to
the inquiries, he felt It his duty to make of him, shouio not
be construed at all neither one way or the other braying on
'the merits of the COMM ft had bees said that the revolt of
the inquiries which he (Mr. B.) made was to give a confirm-
ation to the charges in the petition. Ile laid quite the con-
trary, and the answer of his Hon. Friend was so cautious
and circumspect that It did not leave room for such an infer-
ence. Ills lion. Friend could not have refused to answer
the questions he pat. It was strictly consistent with justice,
the usage of Parlipmeot, and private rights, to affords!l ex-
planation in his power. The answer of the tion.Gentirmen
carefully abstained from saying one word implicating him
In the charges, or which could give currency to the reports.
Since the former dissuasion. he (Mr. 8..) thought it fit to in-
form Mr. Rowse that he had withdrawn the petition, and
cautioned him of the risk he ran in preferring such charges
against an lion. Member, unless he wits certain of proving
them by sr.ncient evidence.. He took ears that he should
be aware'of his exposure to the weenies of the House, sto-
len he could make good Ms ebelge. Ile would move that
the petition be received, sad then on the question that it be
laid on the table, any opinions respecting it might be offesed
by Hon. Members.
Mr. WY IN objected to the petition being received, as
there were coutituted authorities to whom the case
might be sent to trial. Ifs could not conceive how the
Hoossreould sanction any course consiseent with justice by
suffering the petition to be presented. They must either
examine into its contents or merely suffer It to Ile on the ta-
ble. If they examined into its contents tins result might be
that instreetions to prosecute sbossid be given to the Attor•
nay-General, and they must see with whet disadvantage as
individual would be seat into a Court of Law with thr
weight of their censure hanging owe Wm. ft was,' besides,
too late lathe Sessioa to commence an inquiry. There was
also another ground on which it should be opposed. Tim
lion. and teamed Gentlesnaa did not state dml the peti-
tioner had ever laid his ease before Puy of the Public Fuse.
Generics. He (Mr. W.) deciaeod oe the part of his Met
jesty's Government, that there was so disposition to pro-
tect any individual, sod that they went always wady, if a
aufheient ease was made out, to direct a peowention. In
that way the object of the petition might be obtained. Un-
der all circumstanees, at this late period of the Bessie*. he
treed not consent to have a petition wansielog such charges
read; While there were tribunals is the country wore reedy
;to undertake them.
Mr. BROUGHAM rose again to say that he was quite
aware of the difficulties pointed out by the Right flon.
Geotlemao. To she principle that the Nonce should not
interfere in cases where the Courts of haw held joriedic-
'ion. he agreed in its fullest extent. But, while the House
should art with caution, they shoal, on the other hand,
not be too slow in receiving charges against their owe
Members. There was in the present case a charge di-
rectly within the jutisdiction of the House. It wee a
charge for abuse of patronage by one of 'heir own Mew
bers—by one of the Ministerial County Members-4 f the
Right Hon. Gentleman looked to precedents, be might
find many directly in point—he would find that the atten-
tion of the House bring given to such a case was not an
usual proceeding—Lord Melville was censured by the
House, though the offence was indictable. The indict-
ment was even engrossed, but withdrawn. when the im-
peachment was preferred.. to the latter part of Queen
Anne's pingo, in 1710, Me. J. Itodgets, a Member of the
• House, a common Brewer and contractor—and here he
would observe that a contractor was no pnblic functionary
but a private person—this contractor made a content for
;.911116 toms of beer, and delivered 3,300, while he received
payment for the entire. The House took coeni name of the
facts ; they beard evidence upon them, and then expelled
. the individual, and ordered a proSecution by the Attorney-
General. They sent him to trial, not merely with a decla-
ration of their opinions against him, but with a sapience
of expulsion. For his parr, he believed that no man went
into Conrt with a chance oftwfaireetrial titan an indivi-
dual seat there by a vote 'of the House, and under the
prosecution of the Attorney General. The petition, at
all events, should be brought op, and a day moved for
'its being taken into consideration. When that time
came, reasons in its support might be advauced, and Go-
vernment might judge. if a case were made out Geer their
interference.
' Mr. IV-WYNN contended that the cases quoted were
not analogous to the present. In the case of the breach of
contract and fraud, the House, as guardians of the public
phew, were booed to notice it. There was a precedent
en the other side—that of an officer of a regiment against
whom charges of embezzlement were preferred, and Mr.
Foe opposed its being taken op by thc. House, as there
was a military tribunal—a coon-martial, to which it
should be.properly referred. lie (:tr. IV.) thought the
present time the most proper to state hisobjectlons to the
petition, and be would still oppose its being brought up.
Mr. !MAURICE FITZGEItALD gave the lion. and
Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) every credit for his
anxiety to corms the erroneous impression of his senti-
ments made on the public mind. le the account given of
that Hon. Gentleman's observations, he was made to say,
" that having referred for information on the petition to
an Hon. Member of that House, the result of 'that in-
quiry had been, that the charge assumed a graver it-taxer-
ter th..n it had before." The impression that passage
would convey was, that the charges were corroborated by
the answer to the inquiry.. As he (Mr. F.) was concern-
ed in the subject, he would entreat the attention of the
House while he read a letter in answer to the reference
made to hiss by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. The
House must feel in what a delicate situation he stood
when referred to on charges affecting the character of an
Hon. Member of that House with whom lie had been po-
litically connected. He was applied to by the Learned
Gentleman (Mr. 11.) before the petition was presented,
and though reluctant to interfere in the subject in any
' way,be(hie.F.) felt that he could not as a Member of dam
House withhold all communication. Whether the letter
which he wrote unauthorised any public reference to it
was a quettien on which be and the Learned, Gentleman
might entertain different opinions. He then read a letter
to the following purport:--" I have just received your let-
ter. 1 know Mr. George Rowan, he is related to me, and
otherwise connected in the country. Independent of the
charges laid to this individual, I never kneq his. charac-
ter impeached, and. these charge* were prosecuted by
base and treacherous means. I have had so communica-
tion with this individual for some years. Election feuds
in tile county of Kerry and other reasons would induce
me not to take any part in the proceedings on4he petition,
and I am anxious that my name should not be referred-to
in airy statement on the subject to the House."—
This was the letter which he wished his Hononrable and
Learned Friend bad either read throughout, or tot refer-
nee to at all. He never intended that it should be used
to corroborate the charges which hail been Iwo-gist
against the lion. bleutber,and, therefore, desired histion.
and Learned Friend not to refer to it. lie nos anxious to
gaud against saving any thing which might seem to
assist in suhstaetiesi erg :fie charges against his colleague,
irate they might seem to proceed irons lorol jrahtueses or
eleettonering motive:. .The House would, theiefore.
411411.11 the anxiety. which be could not help feeling, to
remove an impression to•that effect, which he fearel bail
been siready created. lie begged of them, however, to
receive his aseurence, that it the time of writing the let-
ter be was in miss seise a party to the proceedings whiCh
were istended agaiitst has colleague.--(Rear y Yielding
to the ditty whiih he tiered his oimstiturnia' be was ail.
lisp if poitailhe, to discharge that duty t hit he &pre-
mast, all 'Mee of prekedicing the ease against the l)on.
Impetativeas the obligation of dnty was, i.e
*4,460 ie at" ore of those who wield use nowt
annotate veva lish any object. But it ea* said, drat-ire
bad se these proceedings, although he might
sot bare pftewood Miens. TektlmPrikmieucqi by whom

. . ,

...,,.
hewas known. lot was sole it was nineorssary to say that
inch v.n linpolotion was totally unfoalWied.:-:(lfear, hear.)
fielogell nobody. supposed that i d charges to pre.
it
ler, be-would resort to indirect weans of ;ti portiog them:
Bet in fact, eraf.as front enconraring tbise oceedings.he
had taken quite an opposite cones*. I e had actually
taken pains to disconnect hiineelf from those who, weer
bringing forward they,. charges. Three weeks aro he was
informed that the petition in tinestiiin had been intrusted
to his lion. and Learned Friend. This wisthe only know=
ledge which he had of the transaction. No intercourse
bad taken place between hintanel the petitioner, since six
years after he was dismissed from hisoffice. And at to
his.(alr..l%) having any knots ledge that these charges
were abort to be preferred against his colle • rite; e. de-
clared that when hr heard the petitioner had expressed his
intention of laying the matter before this House, he ceased
all correspondence with him,. front an apprehensioa that
'however pure his own motives were, his condom might
possibly be misconstrued into an acquiescence of the
course proposed.—(lfeat.) lie went even farther than
this, for he wrote toe most respectable gentleman of the
county, a Mr:Church, stating that he understood a notn•
plaint was about to be made against his collages,. and in
the most distinct terms disclaiming. any connection with
it. He begged once more to apologias for having taken
the liberty to occupy so much of the time of the House in
a matter which was so entirely personal to himself. lot
conclusion, be wished it to be understood, that except the
Hon. Member hi uself, no one felt greater pain than he
did at these complaints, which had been preferred against
hie colleague; for though he was sure that these charges
wonlil be eventually repelled, yet he knew that there was
an odium attending them, and unyter each circuantances,
bis feeling* would have been awakened for any gentle-
mac They reflected* discrediton his country, which he
wished to repel. lie hoped hr :•ad said enough to undo
the impeessiou which the report of the Hon. and Leartscd '
Gentleman's speech wasnalcobsted to make, that he bad
at all 'assisted.in bringing these charges against his Hon.
colleague.--(llear.)
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that what the Right lion
Member bid just stated, was conclusive in shooing the
complete futility and groundliness of the suspicion, if any
such was ever entertained, that be wait st all a party to
the charges which had been preferred against his Hon.
colleague.—(llesr.) In every part of his statement whit Is
related to the circumstances under which the petition was
put into his (Mr. B.'s) hands. he was ready to Amaral
him. But he was bound to say, that he lead not under-
stood the fetter to have been written with the intention
which the Right Hon. Gentleman now expressed. If it
Was his wish to suppress the charge. nothing could have
been more' ',sterol to him, (Mr. 8.).f0r be appealed to
the House, whether upon beisig called upon, he hail shown
any indisposition to withdraw the former petition. or
whether he had show, any great degree of eagerness in
pressing forward • groundless (barge against a Member
of this House.—(Hear.) The truth was, that in the whole
course of his Parliamentary experience, he had never met
any thing so troublesome as this petition. Ile hoped lie
had shown no want of candour towards the lion. Member
1 whom it construed, so far as showing hien a copy. au I
lot presenting it until he was in his place. Indeed he
would not have pressed it if la had not been suggested,
that it was better at once to call she attention of the
House to the eobject, the:- to keep it hanging over the
lion. bleurber's head. His reason for making a part:al.
"matron from the letter was, that if he had read but one
sentence more. it would Nave explained who the writer
was, for he :alluded to "Ida lion. Colleague ;" but Redid
not think himself at liberty to disclose the name. He
should perhaps have Rutted the subseaneenf the letter,
bat as it waa evidence its support of an accusatiotr, he
was unwilling to use env other than the writer's. own
words in an affair so delicate. As-td' the tharge itself,
in one view of the rase, be would he disposed to re-,
commend that it shoot., be pressed no farthve at present,
as it seemed to anticipate the deciaini of it tourt of
„Justice ; but on the other leant; it was too grave a charged
not to be atteadedro. It was, in fact, a criarge.of abuse
of that influence which Gentlemen poetess by being Mein-
hers of this House fur populous placea; audit therefore I
behoved this House to entertain it. Wiest they would do
with it when it came before theist wan quite another I
question. I
Colonel CROSBY said it was eery true, an impres-
sion was made upon him by reading the report that the
Right Honourable Gentleman had afforded information'
to substantiate the charge against bin. He was,. how-
ever, quite convinced, from what he sow beard, that he,
was no party to thew proceedings, aid be should there.:
fore dismiss from his mind all recollection of this sub-
ject.—(Hear t.,)
Mr. BROUGHAM said that lie had. guarded himself
against saying that he received an.y extrinsic information
on the subject, and confined himself to the evidence arising
out of the petition.
Mr. MAURICE FITZGERALD said he felt it neces-
sary to explain one passage in his letter, ?.hick plight
otherwise be misconstrued. lie had said, "that whatever
the circumstances of his (Mr. Rowan's) dismissal were,
he thought they were prosecuted through base and
treacherous means." Now this last observation applied
neither to the conduct of his Hon. Colleague nor of the
Irish Government, in dismissing this individual. It re-
ferred solely to the mode in which Mr. Rowan woo
first proceeded against, which was, as he himself alleged,
in a former petition to this House, by a conspiracy, at
the head of which was a person who had been his con-
fidential clerk. it was to this conspiracy that the words
" base and treacherous means" wete applied. With re-
gard to the conduct of the Right Honourable Gentle-
mat who was Secretary for Ireland when this individual
was dismissed, so far from finding fault with his con-
duct, he (Mr. F.) had reason to be grateful for the
liberality which was shown towards Mr. Rowan, for it
wan known at the Lastle that he was the intimate friend
of him (Mr. Fitzgerald), who was then in opposition to
Government.

Mr. Secretary PEEL said he had no distinct recollec-
tion of the case, but he was sore, that whatever the
government of Ireland did, they most certainly had a
view to providing for another, when they dismissed this
petitioner from his office.—(llsar.)

Mr. BROWHAM said no such charge was made
against them. •
The Petition was ltrJurrht tip and read. It coos-
splained that the Petitioner Isiol been deprived of his si-
tuationas Collector of the Excise, its consequence of a,
'conspiracy promoted by W. Meredith Tans and Cele-
rtel Crosby; that Mr. Twiss had been appointed to his
situation, and that he was subsequently dismissed from I
it on account of mal.ps.4ctices. It further stated, that
notwithstanding this dismissal, Mr. Meredith was reap-
pointed to the office' by the influence of Col. Crosby,
who received a bribe of 140001— awl it charged Col. I
'Crosby with having received bribes from a Mr. Bate-
man, aad various other persons, fur appointing theta to
offices, oi *bleb be had the patronage.

On the question that it do lie upon the table,
wyNN observed, that be did not see what pos-
sible good could arise from laying this petition on the
.tahle. 4t was tot intendeilto follow it op by any elm-
fiat steps; and, indeed, in to present state of the Ses-
sion. he did not see the possibility of doing so. It ap-1
peered to hint, drat the Petitioner'shoad, in the firset,-1
stance. 'have applied to the Rxecatfie Government. and
if they Idled to cirri themselves, it would be thee time
to entsictittlais Home. No other result than suffering
tee 'olitier to stand over to the next Session could ensure
sorcew; audio the mein time the Hot. bleutheowho was
the object or it, would be exposed to Abe odium of
having such a charge hanging over his haul ' *DA thew
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