The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-02-24 00:00:00

With that reproof the matter terminated. The Peti-
tioner stated that he was then fined, which was not
true; for it was in reply to this admonition, that
extending his hand to the Judge, the defendant
said. " If your Lordship has the dungeon ready, I will
present you with the ker." For that he was tined 291.
It was manifest that the object of the defendant was to
be imprieoned for contempt, so that the trial might
have been interrupted. To impose a fine was there-
fore the only course that remained to the Judge in order
to preserve decorum. The defendant then proceeded
to libel the first ranks of the country, and particul...ly
the Bench of Ilisimps, as disbelievers. For this lie
was again tined, and subsequently a third time. .The
defendant complained that he was embarrassed ; but
the I..,•arned Judges desiled him to take his own time.
and to pursue any legitimate course of defence in his
own manner. This was a correct history of the pro-
c •edings at the time; and if the afTair bad stopt herr,
would the !loose have hid a right to interfere ? But
this was not all. The defendant applied to the Court of
King's Bench, and the case was argued with respect
to the law, the merits, and the hardship of it, with
all the advantages that learning, ability and zeal
could give. The cases mentioned by the Hon. Mem-
ber fur Westminster, some of which applied to the

question, and others of which were entirely irrelevant,
were then quoted. The devision of the Judges was
unanimous ; and unless the House of Commons made
itself a Court of Appeal, both in law and fact, the
petition cguld not he seffered to lie on the table---
(bear!)—particularly after the manner in which it
bad been defended.—(Hear, from the Opposition).
Mr. LOCKHART said, when he heard the grounds
upon which the first line had been imposed by the
Learned Judge, he did nit doubt for an instant but
that he should feel hinistlf called upon to support the
petition, and that hr should he only moved from that opi-
nion by the addition of a strong case, or justification of
its exneke in this instance. Such a case had certainly
been made out by the Attorney and Solicitor-General
of his Majesty ; and lie could not help thinking that
the Learned Judge had acted not only in the most
proper, bit in the moat legal way; for no wan could
iloeht that an offence committed is fccic C. ioe was
punishable by line and inipris,.nalent.
Mr. SCARLETI' thought there could be no manner
of doubt that the judge had a right to commit fur con-
teuipt,—(Hear,)— and he conceived that a defendant in
defending himself might he guilty of contempt of court.
It was undoubtedly true that persons were to have a
great latitude allowed them in their defence, but they
were not to he allowed to controvert all the propositions
of the law and the gospel.—(!liar.)—The Honorable and
Learned Gentleman, after illustrating this position, pro-
ceeded to say that no man, from his professional habits
and sense of wood,' he more inclined to support the
authority of the courts of jnstice, or the authority and
power of tke judges, than himself. Yet wheu he w:AI
thus called upon to decide 1111 the question of a commit-
ment for contempt, he must say that there bad been a
case of contempt not very long since, which had agi-
tated the attention of the public, perhaps rather less
than it °Wit to have done. A recent occasion had oc-
curred, on which the court fined a party for publishing
a report of the proceedings of a court of quarter sessions.
Now it was to he observed that there was a distinction
between that which was a contempt of court, and that
which Was a contempt in the face of the court.--(Hear.)
Ile did not deny that the court might make its orders;
but it might reasonably be asked whether any courts of
law were to lay down a rule that their proceedings
should not be published, and if a party did publish the
proceedings, abetter they had a tight to fine him ?
—(Hear, bear )—lle did not know how it was to be
shown, as a general principle, that, if a person published
thus., proceedings with fidelity, lie was in contempt.
But he would not say he would leave that question
as one, at least, well worthy to he argued—that if Judges
made an order expressly that the proceedings in a court
of justice should not be published, and the parties did
toadish theta, suds parties might not be in contempt.
But if the law was so, he did not see why they should
not make another order. If they could order, on pain
olcommitment, that proceedings.should nut he published,
he knew not what was to prevent their making an addi-1
tional order that, if published, they should nut be read—
also on pain of rommitinent.—(A laugh.)—Nor did he
see why the Judges might not also make an order that
no communication should be wade from persons in the
Court to any ss hoFere without it, even by manuscript
or by verbal information. But he thought that the
Court of Chancery and the three Courts were in posses-
sion of a species power wore ancient than the one hr
spoke of; it was not called a power of commitment for
contempt "t,t jisei c curia,' but " attachment," by
which persons could ha brought before those Coons.
Notwithstanding what hail been said by an Hon. and
Learn.nl Friend sit his, on the other side, lie did think
that there was a great distinction to be made between a
Court that had the power of attachment and one which
had it nut : for he could not conceive that the Court of
Quarter Sessions in the comity of Middlesex, for in-
stance, mold cite him (Mr. Scarlett) who was neither a
Sheriff, Deputy Sheriff; Churchwarden, nor High Con.
stable before it, to bear hit conduct discussed, and give
the Court explanations upon it.—(Cries of (button,
question;')
Lord CASTLERF.MiII did not knew whether he
was finite correct in calling to order the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman, but he would leave it to his
own discretion to say whether this nos not irrelevant
and out of order ?
Mr. SCARLETT itplained. He did not think
sorb a power as had been assumed by the Court of
quarter Sessions was legally vested in it; but if it
were, be was one of those who thought they could
wit be too soon divested of it.
Sir FBA NCIS BLAKE opposed the bringing up
of the peti!ion.
Mr. W. COURTEXAY was proceeding to offer
some remarks on what had fallen from Mr. Scarlett,
when
Mr. CI: RIVEN rose, we believe to order; but what
he said was not heard in the gallery.
Mr. DENMAN and Mr. lIANKRS said each a few
words, but they were equally inaudible.
Lord CASTLE RFAtill observed, that as no doubt
appeared to be entertained by the highest legal autho-
rities in that House upon the legality of the Judge's
conduct to which the petition referred. and as the
Court of King's Bench had solemnly adjudged that
conduct to be quite cornet, he saw no reason why
the Petition should he received, or that that Hove
:should at all enter into the iwiliJeet. If a defendant
availed Monett ef the Wei/fence afforded Mal to maim
his owe defense to roma& froth Memo, was his at-
tempt to be tolemited et committing still farther

oiliness in the shape of a petition " ILtll.ll7en;ei;
(Hear. hear, on the Ministerial l'o.:11e .n
of rtitiuning was a privilege svhich (.o,ld nerecro:e.
brought into question except by it. own ~base, and
therefore lie felt that lie best co:oititsd she pre„„vi,in
of that privilege, by opposing the motion for bringiti,
up this petition. It was to he lamented, indeed, Est
a practice hail grown up of late years of bringisg
every thing into the House of Common., in
qttettee of the facility v. ith which any 'thin might find
1 some Member to present a petition :rout hint. This
lithe time of the House was unduly occupied, and
functions diverted front their proper purpose.
much, indeed, was this the ca 1., ;ha: upon a review sf
the month, during which ahe i:ottse hall heel, itttii,,
no less than half its time La i beets engaged in dis.
cussintr petitions. The present th-n was a propel
occasion, on which he thought it necessary on -'
part of the House to admonish the people, that these
. was a limit to the right of petitioning.—(ilear, lstar.)
—.and that tLa abuse of that right would nut be tile.
rated.

J. P. GRANT had no disposition to atlike,l
the House upon this question, if it were not for scum
words which fell from the Noble Lord who had '
sat down, as to admonishing the country upon ,
necessity of imposing a limit on the right of
tinning, accompanied by an observation that too mid
of Ithe time of that House was occupied in tliscusag
the petitions of the people.
Lord CASTLERSAfiII in explanation stated,,
what he meant to deprecate was, the growing practlee
of bringing every thing into discussion iu the House
of Commons.

Mr. GRANT said, that he was in the judgement,
iris
th
thcoatiictetpwatio:
too of
muchofobtleaoliveyds,
trhe ien ous
eo
base rHs tvoi
ng,
ulster to talk of admonishing the people upon the any
exer-
cise of their inalienable and mod sacred right,
the time of the House was misapplied in discmsingt,
Petitions; such observations onglit not to be allowed ,
go forth from that House without appropriate aniet4d.
version, and he felt it his ditty to enter I •
against their character and tendency. As to lis peetes:
huingi character
deirdiscuss of hision, iro
he leia,3dnetiot
ve.t heard it read, hat''
tion was to him an ample guarantee that it was drams
up in decent, respectful language: therefore he amid
not decline to vote for its reception upon the erase
urged by some Gentleman, that it referred to the combo,
of a Judge ; feeling, as lie ilid, that it was competestr
that Howe to take rognirince of the cooduc; of ass
Judge, however high his character, or however digoifiei
his station.
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought that if this Petals*
were allowed to be laid on the. Table, it would then ly
conic matter for discussion, and this among other
sons determined his objection to the motion fur having
brought up, because he considered it of an improper
character.
Mr. Ill:1611T spoke with great animation and
in favour of the motion, and against the observation
Lord Castlereagh. This was not to be regarded as a to
question of legality, but as an appeal to that !louse,
its great constitutional privilege, according to which,
was competent and itoper.itively hound to superir
the proceedings of the Judges, and to watch with
lousy the manner iu which justice was administered:
MIS known, ititirril, from history, that Judges Ind
acted wrong, and by that House they were NW
But where was the remedy to be ha I for mat-Ansi!
tint' on the part of the Judges, if that 'loose, acting ,
the false delicacy of which lie had heart too mach
night, should decline to interfere upon any charge against
a Judge? lie did nut wean to say that Mr. Justice
acted wrong, or that that Judge would out be at
justify his conduct in argument, hut this he would ins.
taro, that no precedent could he found for such condset
as the Petitioner complained of. The Learned Joao
himself, indeed, 1 y remitting his fines upon the Peti.4
tioner, admitted, at least implication, that he kltia
was wrong, and that those lines were onduly impost&
He disagreed with the Learned Member in a certainl:
of his view of the rase, because he thought thitidli
fur contempt of Court should, as they were generally
acts of impulse, be liable to the rectification of a wend
and sober discretion. 'lhe rage quoted by the 'Learned
Member for Peterborough, fully illustrated the alone to
which the power of punishing for contempt was but t-
liable. But as to the Petition to which the motion
ferred, it ought, in CO:111111M justice, soil even in decency
to be brought up and read before the House detortuinta
upoa its rejection.
The Hon. C. 111-TCHINSON set out with ohseri,
ing, that possibly lie did not rightly understand'
Noble Lord, but according to his understandi,
Noble Lord had uttered that which must rend'
feelings of every man who lured the Constituti
who had a spark of liberty in Iris heart. When
nister, who had for many years acted inch an
part to liberty and humanity, both at home and
—when a Minister, so closely allied with
powers, who cherished absolute tyranny, end
red any degree of popular freedoin—told the peer
this country, that however his insulting or uppr
conduct might goad them lulu madness, he woia
allow them even to petition for redress, was the'
but too much ground for public alartn.—(lie
Fur the Noble Lord declared his intention to lit
tight of petitionin:e according to the roles which
be suggested by others, or which might occur
own wild imagination. He should be glad to find
lie misunderstood the language of the Noble Lord,
if that language were each as he conceived, it
not, in his view, be too strongly deprecated. Thu
'mumble Gentleman concluded with expressi
hope, tint before the House acceded to
.the
Lord's proposition, it wonld hear the pettho
either by the Honourable Moyer, or by th?•
the table.
Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that the I
able Gentleman must have veri much misconre.
words, for he was sure that the lion. (lent. tr,
pnble of misrepresentatiou ; and was proceed, _
argue that it was competent to the House to Meet'
motioa for bringing up a petition, and that the •
was a case in which it was pr•iper to exerei
right, when lie WAS interrupted by
cries of "
spoke."
Los d ALTHORP expressed a wish to have de
of that Horse thrown wide open fur the reception
the petitions of the people,
and a hula, that the
Lord would not press his objections to the motion.
As to the language of a petition, lie thuoglo o
House should not object to any strength of exprestou
which naturally arose out of the ewe of a petit
for otherwise a complaint of great oppression or
lice could not be adequately described.
Me- C. W. WYNN said, he was far from mail
hug that tbecondoet of a judge might ant be
dons and unconetitutional as to bo a fit fibre'
tu
Parliamentary inquiry, and if any sue her of

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