The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-08-18 00:00:00

The House divided—
Contra!' -

41
1011

Majority ageism the Asneedneot
When strangers were are-admitted, the House was in
debate on the 'notion for calling in Counsel.
The Earl of CANIVARTOK was of opinion that it
would be inconsistent with pliblic interest, and incom-
patible with the honour of their Lordships' Home, to
proceed further by calling in Counsel. The objectless
to the Bill were/ so general sad so strong, that he
could scarcely make up his salmi to voting upon it all;
but if compelled to do so. be would certainly vole
against it. Was it possible to believe that sack a mem
sore was .necessary for tho inMowas of the country?
Was It to. be supposed that the country was threateued
with,any,danger by their Lordships declining to pew
'ase it ? No rd shot believe that them KW one Noble
Lord in * Hoes* or me indlvidsol in the misery
mho really dreaded or dieter Irons
the Sill. He was not aware of may •gronstis w
,omold.loa.sectodeven on the 'barest fuotiug of supposi-
tion by which it could be chews that the Bill was or-
cutlery. He objected to Bills of Pains sad Penalties
tat more general grounds. They were a mode of legis-
lating ez poet feet. (it was said) is cases where the
parties could not be made assemble to the ordinary
administration of justies—ae in eases where there was
obviously ground for a criminal charge, but such a do-
feet of evidence es would prevent a conviction before
the common tribunals. He conceived the greeted of
supplying defective evidence one "of the strongest ob-
jections against Bills of that nevem He protested
against such a principle of justice, on the most public
grounds. He adverted to the ease of Sir John Fen-
wick, wherein the mode of trial was changed from im-
peachment to a Bill of Pains sod Penalties, for want
of infficient evidence. He thought that case no
ground for their Lordships' present proceedings; for
although there was at drat a majority of 90 fur intro-
ducing the Bill against Sir John Feawick into that
House, after hearing the evidence and debating upon
4. the Bill was carried by a majority of only 33 in the
Hems of Commons, while Ia their Lordship's House
it pissed by the very feeble majority of seven. Bishop
Butsett had, in the course of those proceedings, de-
fended the nature of such Bills, and indite' not only
on their analogy to the practice of English jurispru-
dence, but had maintained the propriety, in certain
eases, of giving the prefacer, to that mode of trial.
But how did the Rev. Lord support his argument ?
The first precedent which he quoted was. that of a
Bill rimed *phut an individual charged with attempt- i
hag to poison the Bishop of Rochester, by infusing
some kind of poison into his food and dripk, and the
accused was condemned by- she Bill to be boiled to
death. Such was a sample of the early precedents of
this description of Mist As to the matter of charge
of the present Hill. what had their Lordihips sees, or
what had they beard to ',dace them to-believe shot it
was a proper subject of inquiry fur that House? Their
Lordships could sot be ignorant of the proceedings
which had tato* place is the Howe of Controolls, nor
of the vote which that House had come to upon the
Bill before them. Their Lordship' must have seen
that it had been acknowledged by some of the Mem-
bers of that House, whe also belonged to Admioistra-
don, that Ministers would be glad renames& asylums
for getting out of the serape is which they considered
themselves, by being compelled to proceed with the
Bill. Was it possible then for their Lewaships to Imo.
Nese, ilea this was a case is which (it had
bees iii.lll•4l that it meld set be brought betels the
ordluoty tribunals) there were reran of piddle &ogee
that 11111.010 i their Lordships to proceed? Lot=
taillidr la& at the peculiar sircumetomeso
tmooltpdia this case, at the obviate pima
*bleb they had thee the country la general Mae ho.
!terest is the promintdon of it, but the contrary. If,
indeed, the Noble Mari who moved IQ Order a
the day would Mato to the Name the MAW it Filial
danger involved la the ckate—or if that MAU 111 w
really apprehended sinapr aboadeolac
after what had takes plats. mil would Maio the cis.
eilesaisces of hie fours so as to satisfy 16
might be iodise** to sapper*. the contianesce of the

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proceeding.. Bet there wise befloili &sir Letisidi k
not eves the shadow of tech.', *Moe. Hs stroagly
invited the atiention of the Henn to the situation of
the Qweew, a elleation by le anal suitable for a
person of her high rank. Bhe bell bola left in dream-
memos of the utmost difietaltzlige laid no Mame on
any of the potties. Thome Might have been
Merely the emit of Imola, said parliefio of mutual in-
araldet: Bat her Majesty ba. bees kept for a long
esatsdsd years is Muinsiall 11. her Royal Consort,
Ilan die lase eine loud hie Ebert . (from which her
priest lisps, imel bald liseldildeo), sod from almost
wasimilesees
the wile& ado loyal Paved She had been thus
plated is a iltsslble do met less, ass whisk
mire IsliFisellther bet to the petals of
that ef oatigk oit *deb be had before
iillfilla- la Amok . a eiewillftivale bad treed. it
mast knot been aide, eineseadascen which. woald oil'
' for Vie esnemisseissies of every lallividaal (MO the
highest a the lowest. Nita this was osollte• question
for their Lordships; they-wore coati* to the but
cousidevotion of bow fat public policy was esseerned
in preenedieg to exandOe the emsdnet of her Majesty.
They heel as yet hosed nothing te strengdths their
minds upon that question. and as to the ease of real
guilt which he had ;ea pit, it was a case merely of as-
sumption. But admitting that it were true to the great-
est extent he should have thought that, under
the peculiar eireumstasces, they might hare allow-
ed the Alpe and the ocean, and the boundaries of
different Idegdueas, to draw a thick veil over tran-
sactions which could not endanger the safety of
the country by being overlooked, but which, by
bong presecated, west excite feelings that never
.add be excited without ear, to the state. The
leakie proceeding was, In fact, meet objectionable ;
l U the case was to be proceeded in at all, it was not
Via Bill of Pains and Penalties, and especially not by
a 111111 each as that before them. The Bill, instead of
Hating a direct offence, entered into a long recital of
acts whkb constituted no offence at all. There were a
I variety of rape and almost silly charges, such as that
of raising an obscure individual to distinction, and
Ibleping honours opus him. Deaf this were criminal,
Vile* was the line to be drawn betweeu proper and
befeWae distinctions ? Were there no Ferman of ob
settee parentage and of humble fortune who had been
asimassil se the honours of the Mate, and that too
very filissnadly, whose first clans. perhaps, was no
Illislial es* vent of having served some who were able
In Never ilam with zeal and fidelity ? Was Eng-
land a efistary wherein to set up the exclusive claims
of Mils Oa m the hoovers of the State ? The only
of a criminal charge, which was coupled
lcthis other topics of trialag grievance-in the
Oak Istoubsaaviish. WOW - 4lot_celsoe of &dollen*.
Bat if that charge were wait tabs meloseissod, why
was it wet staled distinctly? If it were stated is reply,
that the charge of adultery egad not be proved. but
that condos!t little short of convicted adeltery could be
proved, be would then put it to the Ministers of the
Church, and those of the law who heard hiss, to say,
if they ever knew any other grounds ups* which a
divorce had been allowed than that of adeltery proved
in the very feet ? If that were the charge, it should
have been stated with such plaisness, that the illus-
trious accused might have been enabled to meet it."(
that were not the charge. there could be none at all
sulkiest to give grounds for passing the Bill. He
would espy... no opinion epos the conduct of the
Queen. All that be would. say upon it would
amount Is so more than that which was generally
homes, so it was a subject of almost general agreement
that to proceed with the ;platten conld lead to no
good. The objections to the measure were general,
having beta repressed in every part of the country.
For their loedsbips to proceid might have the effect of
irritating the feelings of the Piblic to a dangerous de-
gree a hot, but without probability of effecting any
degree of public good. He objected to calling in
Counsel.
Bart ORIET began by stating the reluctance with
which be entered upon such a subject as that now be-
fore their Lemiships, aid egressed the pain which he
kit in voting with the majority against the motion of
his Noble Friend near him (die Duke of Leinster).—
Ile was glad. howtiver, that an opportunity was now
ipetteested to him of explaining the vote which he had
Athos with se much palmist feeling. When his Noble
Jfedead (the Bari of Carnarop) stated his objections
In bills of this kind generally, he (Lord they) acceded
he all those objections. Bit the motion of his Noble
Mood fes not rescinding the order of the day, had
atm him by surprise. $t was a mution for neither
gnaw less than reseineiagall the proceedings which
Iblioduudeldps had hi tiferto adopted, and that too
illeallibe assignment Of any reason. Under these
41rcanslonees, it was isuptimple fur hi:it to acquiesce
la a amstisa so contradictory to all their former pro-
ossiinp ; and it was for, this reason that be had voted
la die amptrity as eat
had When his Noble
'Mad silo spies lest had said, that all Bills of Pains
arifildei, as e.• ?wt*. lairs, were inconsistent
with the goosed so • of British justice, to that de-
glandes he fully subs
red. lint still be would
aalataln that principle of 'Parliamentary law, that us
had estraerdioary occasions where a great state neces-
day existed, Parliament was vested with extraordinary
powers,. and it was the duty of Parliament to apply
posse pewees whoa that neeessity existed. But unless
Ideas necessity was shown, the objections to the exec-
doe if suck powers were well founded, and here be
esteemed he felt very Considerable difficulty. His
X•ble Friend had ashed, what advantage could be ex-
..efiroas die present proceeding, and urged, that
el advastsie netitiss but mischief could flow
idiom it. If their" lordships were now arguing bcf ire
any pressediags were adopted, such objections ought
to base all their bees. if he (Bari Orey) were an ad-
den of the Crawsr naloabtedly he would deem all
those coariabrestiova if great importance. Bat be felt
rat maw a the ekitaiMerlorere personally applicable

to the Male Ittl Opposite. They hag offered her Kai
limy& splersU eitablishment, they would have her
111 t. tea legal chartifter acknowledged abrOad, pro-
vide/ mily that she did not return to Ragland. (Some
of-the Ministers here eiptessed dissent.) The Noble
Earl FAS:tested-7-1m did not wish to infer any thing
feels the propositions of the Noble Lord, Which they
did not warrant. But he understood, that they had
offered her Majesty 50,0001. a-year, provided she re-
mained abroad, and that they would have her legal
character as Queen recognised in some foreiga
Cont. which she might select. This statement he
believed to be stbstantially correct. - Undoubtedly.
thereient, s priori, ii must be granted, that where at
mob was admitted, it was strange, that the single.civ:.
esmatance of her Majeitp's return to Eaglets!. pro-
deeed.Mm ommie4ty of the paommtt 818. !kill this cone
art- argiosent personal to the Ifinisters. BR their
Lordship Lad. further to Coisktilif the aitnatioit .in
which they stood. What, was that ' situation
charge was made against the Queen of England.
which, if proved, undoubtedly Mould be followed bi
every degradation, which this Bill proposed. He said.
If it could be proved, for, as yet, be knew not whether
it meld or not. Upon that question he bad 7.74
tams. Upon that question it was, that he a
here to do his duty.--(Hear, hear, bear.)—No earti4
interest—no bias whatever woolti preemie hits hall
performing that ditty.--(Cheers front the Treseasy
Bench.)--He was determined neither to support the
cause of the people, or the cause of the Queen, as
such, but he would deal impartial justice toallpartioi
—(Cheers.)—The Parliament then stood in this situ-
ation with the Queen of England, which, if pored.
undoubtedly rendered her unworthy of the high sta-
tion, that now belonged to her.—(Hear, hear.)—
They had this 'Normative, by whose miscoaduc', be
knew not—but they had this alternative before them.
either to proceed with inquiries into the charges that
had been made, which, if substantiated. neeemarity
would,bring degradation of her character ; or else with
these charges so made, to abandon all Inquiry, to raise
her to the eminent rank of Queen ofthese realms, with
that important charge unheard and undecided. When
such au alternative was 'Asked before them, he thought,
that his Noble Friend should have brought very grave
matter indeed, under their Lordship's notice. Without
the production of such matter, he could not abandon what
he deemed to be his duty, nor would he 'brisk fres
heating the whole of the charge. The only question
then before their Lordships was this, whether that
charge should be proceeded upon by a Bill of Pains
and Penalties. On this point he nutst say, be telt
very great doubt. He felt very strongly the general
objections to the Bill, and be thought it MORI*
sated if there were no other coarse of
known -to the law, that the coarse wow
a fit and necessary coarse. But before he mitnittell
that, be must be satisfied in his own mind, that there
was in truth, no other course. In the first plate it
was said, that her Majesty could not be rwattersted,
because the charge against her did not amount to
High Treason. He certainly felt great Mildew, in
expressing an opinion contrary, or rather in doubt of
.soinion delivered by so high as authority as the
_ _

and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, parties-

as that opinion had been prom/lanced se *M.
.eally. If he (Earl Grey) understood the Nobititshal
Learned Lord rightly, he first expressed a doubt of
the correctness of the generally received coostetetlen
of the Statute of Edward ill. but be had no doubt.
that even if the received construction were tree, by
which construction the two parties, the Principal sad
the Queen, Were considered equally crinalsal--that If
that construction were true, still, as the eritseeharged
was said to be committed abroad, and with a fenders.
owing no allegiance to this country, he was exemptid
from the penalty, and by consequence she email
hilt
be charged as an accessory. When he heard the Nei*
and Learned state that he had spent a log Ilk the
earlier part of it in the study, and the latter *Vet
it in the administration of the law-..woes be Weed
the Noble and Learned Lord with all his seagetteat slid
intelligence, with a mind not disposed to &et* fa.
?icily, state, that he had acquiesced in the apiniegm iat
all the writers upon this subject until the persist iv.
epags was started, he must be allowed to plate the
calm opinions of the Noble ma Elapsed
rd in to a doubt which was so saiditraly
and so recently suggested. Besides, the Noble mil
Learned Lord expressed no more than a iambi alto
the construction of the Statute, and in this stale of the
law, It became their Lordships In the lest place, to
satisfy themselves whether his Lordship's emauseticia
of the law was sound or nat. He was SOT! It WWI lll-
secessery to state to their Lordships *at ever/
writer on this question, Lord Coke, Sie
ill. Ihk,
Sergeant Hawkins, and Blackstone. all rouxt.
ed in the opinion that both the parties Is slab
as adultery, where the Queen was tors wt.
lag, were equally guilty. The Noble Earl pro-
' seeded upon this basis to argue, that If both were
avidly guilty, it was not necessary, is Matt to tap-
, pert the prosecution of one, that both should ha pry-
eeeded against. He agreed with his Nobto Mead
that the charge against her Majesty shoal& be dear-
ly Foisted out ; and that in the way of evidesit.ario-
thiog should satisfy their Lordships eh=
I dearest, the most overwhelming, the Most
proof of adultery.—(Cheers.) But before they' pro.
!Goaded to hear evidence, he wished, as they lid tro-
peely required the attendance of the loused J
Iltat the question should be put to them, whether,:
Vain such a ease of adultery to have ocememl. it
'mom ideals the statute of Edward 111. Tioltoble
Lord thee popeteded to contend, that if** lestsed
+airs ANA answer in the affirmative, *Ma it was
oingsaiit io tlhe Goversmest to proemial sea* her
.1111Miesty 464. The Noble Kul sdsllooklettsa able
essents is favour of his posiclos.. 1111 hi eipet was,
the present proceedings Bud.mid precings taken,* nave, sad's; altdote of

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