The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-02-27 00:00:00

14Y, FENZEL/IRV 27, 1810.

IMPERAAL PARLIAMENT.
•

HOUSE OF LORDS—MoItn'AY, Fifa. 46.
bsid REDESDALE having informed their Lordships,
that it was inconvenient for him to attend the House before
five o'clock, the Lord Chancellor again deferred judgment in
the Appeal of Kearney v. Beaelev.
Two or three Naturalization Bilis, and sense private Bills,
were read a third time, and passed.
Lord H A RDWIC KE laid on the Table a Report from
the Committee appoiMed to Inquire into the causes of the
Dearth of corn an 1800.
Five Messages were brought up from the Commons. with
Private Bills, by Mr. Lushiugton, Mr. Mellish, and Sir Jas.
Graham.
Lord MOIRA presented Petitions from the. Debtors con-
fined in the Jails of Leicester. Maidstone, and Stafford. Ills
Lordship said, that he should content hisivelf with merely
laying the Petitions on the Table of the House ; ate6o-'
(Lord Itedesdale having signified his intention to propose
some measure on this head)—that by was stilling, after tiO
many years of toil ma the suVect. to leave it, for the pow.
sent, in the hoods of she NOshiliwttitastahlahre wire MS
just spoken. •
THE REVERSION B1LL• •
Lord GROSVENOR, rose. It wee not hit
design, his Lordship said, to trouble the $O4ll/1
with a long speech, especially as his indisposition,
during the week that had passed, unfitted him froml
making many observations now. After Also ob.
jections made to the first reading of the Bill now
before their Lordships, by the Noble and Learned
Lord who presided, in that House, and since some
disposition had been shown to strangle it its its
birth, it became him, however unwilling, to ad-
vocate the principk of the Bill. He hoped that
it would arrive safe in its destined port, notwith-
staliding the clouds (looking to the Inolsack) that
were gathering against it in that House. It was
a measure lurked for by the country, and any
absolute opposition to it would indicate a stub.i
born resistance to all refortn.—[hear, hear !]
If it could be proved to be a measure advantage-
ous to the country, which the country called for,
and had a right to look up to, it would, he mutt
say, he the greatest hypocrisy to compromise it in
any way, or under any pretence. tilectrl hear!]
It was said, that the Bill infringed on the prero.
gatives of the Crown ; but what were all pre-
rogatives—the prerogatives of the Commons and
of their Lordships, as well as those of the CroWn,
but fur the benefit of the whole? The other
House, which had already carried a resolution to
the effect of this B:11 to the foot of the Throne,
had voted, in the year 1780, that the influence of
the Crown had increased, was increasing, and
ought to be diminished. W hat was that inthaimpe
as exerted at this -time ? Setting that influence
aside, bp had other reasons, many other reasons,
against the granting of Places in Reversion. •A

ken beaus eominated to All it yet, s'_
the changes in human life, the same men-niiglit,
on this plan (Reversion of Offices), be wholly un-
fitted to occupy the situation at the time it be-
came his duty to fill it. He should therefore move
the second reading of the Bill, and reserve himself
to reply to such arguments as should be adduced
against the motion.
Lord Viscount SIDMOUTII. was friendly to
the object of the Bill, conceiving that the practice
of granting Offices in Reversion was pregnant with
the most injurious consequences. Persons having
such grants, too frequently wasted, great part of
their liver in listless inactivity% instead of adopting
some pursuit advantageous to themselves, and use.
ful to their country, 'until, at length, pressed by
poverty, they were induced to sell the Reversion
for a very inadequate consideration. Instances of
this description had frequently happened, and
shenved•the injury which resulted from the practice
to the individuals .who were the objects of these
grants, whilst, on the other hand, if duties were
attached to the office, it frequently happened, that
the person having the Reversion did not succeed .to
the office, till disabled by age or infirmity from
properly exercising its duties. He had, however,
$ doubt whether it would not be fit, consistently
with decorum, this measure being one which af-
fected the prerogative, that his Majesty's consent
should be given or asked for, and he wished to
ascertain whether it would be fit that this stiip
should be adopted now, or in any ether stage
of the Bill, and therefore moved to adjourn the
debate.
Lord GR.ENVILLE was of opinion, that his
Majesty's consent might be given in any stage of
tfie Bill; otherwise, if it was to be held that such
consent was necessary, before discussing the prin-
ciple of the Bill, It would begiiring his Majesty a
direct previous negative to a legislative measure.
The LORD CHANCELLOR. concurred in
opinion that his Majesty's consent might begiven
any stage of the Bill.
Some conversation took place upon this point,
between Lord Viscount Sidmouth, Lord Gren-
ville, the Lord Chancellor, Lord Arden, Lord
RoJesdale, and the Earl of Derby, the result of
which was, • that Lord Sidmouth withdreir his mo-
tion-.
The Earl of ROSS took up the dismission ou
the Bill, and contended that no sufficient reason
bad been shown fur its adoption. 'the King's
prerogative, he thought, ought not to be touched
without an irresistible necessity, and nu such ne.
cosily had been proved to exist. lie deprecated
the Idea that their Lordships' decisions ought to be
swayed by any clamour out of doors. He was a
decided enemy to innovation, and thought the
wisest course was to resist it iii its first stage, or
otherwise, by giving up point after point, they
might, at length, be rendered unable to defend the
citadel itself.
The Earl of HARENVICKE deuicd.that there
,
was any clamour out of noors ; .but there., was an
expectation entertained by thatational part of the

community upon this subject, to which he thought
it would be wise to concede. The present mu-
sure was one which would produce no saving, to
the country, andfriornt
was a
whichmen nouiramedpiartoespeete
benefitiv
would result; but
good,and one which he the-ught it would be highly
expedient to adopt.
Lord BORINGDON also supported the Bill,
and thought their Lordships were called upon to
adopt this Bill, in order • that they might redeem•
the pledge which they bad given at the foot of the
throne three years ago, in answer to his Majesty's
speech.
Lord REDES6A LE observing that it hid been
slated, that individuals had been injured by giving
them ReversiOns, wished to bear from these Noble
Lords who held Reversions, how mach they suf-
fered from being placed in, that situation., With
respect se-the-Bill,. haval.digidedkhostile, $0 it,
and It was quite ebsird to pass a perpetual bill-
,.
Apo the spetulatioo that at stone time or other
some purpose of economy might be pioneered.
The Earl of DARNLEY thought that 'Some
Noble Lords who argued against innovation,
would have argued in the same way against time abo.
lition of the Star Chamber. The Billshe thought,
was called for by every consideration of public
expectation and of economy.
The.LORD CHANCELLOR denied that Par.
liament had fallen ioto disrepute ; but If ever it
should fall Into disrepute, he would venture to
say, that it would be from acting with a view to
popularity, rather than upon its own deliberate
judgment. His Lordship then gave ashdrt state.
meat of the manner is which these bills. had been
bl•ought before the House. A Resolution had first
been passed by the other branch of.theLegislature,
adopting the principle of the abolitioo of the prat.
tice of granting Offices in Reversion. This un.
doubtedly, at a resolution of the other House,
was entitled to a great deal of attentive and deli-
berate consideration. When they came up to
their Lordships witlf a Bill, confineable to that
resolution, their Lordships not choosing to
assent to a measure of this importance, without
taking time foe due inquiry, thought proper to
reject that Bill. A Bill next cause op fur sus.
pending the granting of Offices in Reversion ; and.
as this, with a' view to further inquiry., was not"
objectionable, it was passed. In this Session, a
Bill came upfor rendering perpetual the Suspending
Billi and he felt it a duty personally incumbent
on 'him 'to stop the Bill on the point of form.—
Sir Matthew Hale, who would ever continue
to be considered as an ornament to the' profes-
sion to which he had beloiged, had, he knew,
highly disapproved of Reversions, as had Lord
Coke. But still, their authority-was not to be de..
cisive of the question. He acknowledged that lie
wished to be cautious how he meddled with a sys.
tem, which had been the practice of the Constitu.
Lion for three centuries. Still he did not go the
length of saying that no good could he done by a
judicious regulation—by curtailing the profits of
some Offices liable to be granted in reversioti-T-
-and, perhaps, by abolishing others. But such
regulation could only take place upon a due and
deliberate inquiry ; and it would nut become
their Lordships to Legislate upon the subject with-
out the opportunity of making the inquiry, and
having the whole matter before them. But he be.
lievod it impossible that the result of any inquiry
ought to induce them to go the length of this
Bill. Whatever might be said about his being averse
to innovation, he could not consent to legislate in
the dark. ' The argument as to the fitness or un•
fitness of persons for the performance of tint;
duties of such places would operate against Officers
in possession ; and he maintained that the mss.
chief of giving an Office in possession improitarly
was a much greater mischief than giving one in re-
version, because there were many chances against'
its ever coming into possession. His Lordship
said, that not averse to reform in every thing, he
was always averse to a reform which he did not
understand. He did not exactly see the length to
..which 'this might-be carried. Ile must have the
whole subject before him, and could nut agree to
advance step by step till he found that he had
acceded to an innovation, to nine.teutlis of
which he would have been averse, if he had had
the whole subject before him. He himself bad
recured throe or four reversions fur his family,
without the smallest conception that he was doing
any thing wrong. Hu wished that the public
should know this; but, however, the whole of
these offices were not df 'sufficient value to make
the reversionists very uneasy. Former Chancel-
lors had dune the same thing, without thinking
that they had done any thing improper. his
Lordship concluded by observing, that it was im-
possible fur him to assent to a Bill of this sweep.
ing nature. Any measure of general regulation
he would, however, examine with the utmost care
and impartiality, and give it his support, is far
as he could consistently with his public duty: He
did not think it necessary to say any thing upon
the question as to the indeence of the Crown.
Lord GROSVENOR. observed, that he did
nut think that the antiquity of any abuste was a
reason fur supporting it. If the practice of grant-
ing reversions bail continued fur three hundred
years,. it ought to ..be recollected, that it had in
the course of that time been sever* censured by
many eminent men. His Lordship then adverted
to a pamphlet which had lately
appeared on the
subject of economy, and the influenceof the crown,
and remarked, that the perusal had an effect .upon
him exactly the reverse of what was intended to
be produced. Considering the ample means of in-
forinatiuu possessed by its anther (Mr. Rase), he


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