The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-05-01 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

They were told that the uncertainty of this Government as
to the course about to be pursued by France arose not from
dupery, hut from the vacillations of that Government.—
Now it did appear strange that in the midst of all this
daily shifting and changing, no opportunity was found
to tarn the balance in our favour. The only symp-
tom of steadiness in French Councils that he had ob-
served, was, a steady, obdurate, consistent, vigorous deter-
mination never to listen to England---always jninine
the Allies, and opposed to vs.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—But
more than that was sacrificed at Paris; for be would
say that throughout the whole of these papers was ex-
hibited such a consistent, uniform system as never before
was seen in any similar case : first, was the cordon seal-
:girt, that acme of dopers-, which being collected at the
foot of the Pyrenees for the prevention of contagion,
when turned into an army of observation, our Ministers
could adroitly change the nature of the apprehended
malady from a physical to a mental or political plague.
There was another part of this system in France having
uniformly concealed from us all they were doing. And
the third part of the system was that throughout, whilst
the French Government were taking rapidly succeeding
strides towards the consummation of war, they were daily
covering up their real motives and objects, by concomit-
ant assurances to oar Ministers, that peace was what they
wanted, and all they meant. Even up to the delivery of
the King's speech, breathing nothing but war, and after
marching of 100000 armed Frenchmen for Spain, the
pacific Ministers of France succeeded in persuading the
Ministers of this country that peace was their object. As to
our conduct towards Spain, he considered that all our good
offices had been for France, and against and over Spain.
The Hoa. and Learned Gentleman then proceeded to argue
that Ministers were wrong,inasinuch as they had never called
upon France to account for her Army of Observation, which
had distributed money to corrupt some of the Spaniards.We
had a right to cell for this accounting, because the Army
was no more an internal regulation than the Spanish Consti-
tution, which the French desired to alter. We had ourselves
called France, one former occasion, to account for arming
the opposite coast. He admitted that interference could not
come with a be:ter grace than from the Duke of Wellington ;
but what he complained of was, that the Duke was made use
of fur an improper purpose—to advise the Spaniards to con-
cede. It was with great pain he saw what the Duke haddone
on this occasion. He bad recommended a submission to that
very Ferdinand, who had thrown his most faithful followers
(those who had recovered his Crown which he had abandon.
e I)into loathsome dungeons. Much was said of what was due
to us in gratitude from Spain, but was nothing due to us
from the Bourbons? We had restored Ferdinand with
the assistance of his own people; but we had restored
the Bourbons without that assistance. It would not be
too much •to call upon Louis to recollect how he was re-
stored. Ile was actually brought to France in the bag-
gage .of the English army. And yet we dared not to ask
jiirn to do justice. It had been said, and pressed repeat-
edly, that the question was " Peace or War." He
denied this. It was not to be assumed that we had es-
.caped war, even now. No one bad said we ought to go
to war; but many had said, that a threat of going to
war, with an intention to do so, if necessary, would have
prevented this war. France bad the same reason to at-
tack Portugal u she bad to attack Spain; but because,
we, in that cue, did our duty, Portugal was saved, and
France had promised to respect her territory. As the
case now stood, the French would have the same right
to search over us as we kad exercised over neutrals dur-
ing the last war. How lonz did they think English
traders would submit to this? He would, however,
she:. ea this matter, and ask how long they were to.allow
France to overrun Spain? The Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite, with a simplicity, parallel only by the example
cf the Golden Age, had admitted his belief that France
oo desire of aggrandizement; but be (Mr. Brough•
am) was satisfied that many months would not have
elapsed before the people of England and that House
also would regret that strong language, accompanied
by preparation for war, had not been used. If Ho-
nourable Gentlemen approved of the conduct of
Ministers, why did they not at once come forward with
a Resolution in plain terms expressive of that approba-
tion? Why should they be satisfied with this moderate
Amendment? It only meant that a censure would not
be voted ; because it would have the effect of turning out
tl:e Ministry. Before he sat down he would advert to one
more topic. Approval or palliation of the conduct of the
Aries or France had not polluted the air of that House.
He believed no person capable of it was to be found in
this country. Foreign nations would understand that
all ranks and parties abhorred the conduct of
the Allies of the French Government. If he war
charged with using too strong language, who was it
that charged him ? Those who had charged him with it
had themselves characterised the conduct of the French
as that of insane demons. lie entreated the House not to
send forth a false or erroneous appearance of its opinion'.
Those who did not understand the politics of England,
would say that there were so many on the side of France,
and so many only against her. it was the interest of
many to misrepresent the votes of that House ; and he
had only to add, that to prevent such a misrepresentation.
Le would cheerfully forego every political or party consi-
dlration.
The LORD MAYOR spoke in favour of the Amend-
ment.
Mr. MACDONALD replied.—The debates in that
House bad served as an antidote to the mischief occasioned
by the feebleness of the language of Ministers. There
*aslant one expression in the Amendment in which he
could not concur. It was the word "earnest," as applied
to endeavours of Ministers. Hit meant merely that Mi-
nisters were themselves earnest in their endeavours, he
did not quarrel with it, and, if therefore the House
had no objection, he would withdraw the motion
and allow the Amendment to stand as an original
motion.
Mr. CANNING rose and said, that after having suf-
fered for three long nights, the unremitted and uit
sparing lectures of the Hon. Gentlemen, under the am-
eatioo of conceding toe freely, lie would now shew that
he had profited by their reproofs, and would not consent
to the motion being withdrawn.
On this declaration being made, the cries of " ques-
tion," " chair," " withdraw," resounded from all parts
of the House.
The gallery was cleared for a division, and on our re
admission, we found that about a hundred Members from
the Opposition side had left the House previous to the di-
vision, and that the numbers were—For theAmendinent,
372—Against it, 20—Majority, 352.
Al Five o'clock the House adjourned to Friday.

Tuesday the despatches for China, by the ship Van
sittart, were closed at the East India Hulse, and delivered
to the Purser of that ship.
The East India Company's ship Lady Melville arrived
off the Start the 24th instant; she sailed from Canton the
3d of December, the Cape the 18th of February, and St.
Helena the 6th of Much. The Thomas Coutts arrived
off the Wight the 26th instant ; she left China the 6th of
January, and St. Helena the 16th March. The Repulse,
outwerd bound, and the Prince Regent, from Bengal
and Madras, were at St. Helena when Thomas Coons
left. The latter was expected to sail for England on the
20th of March. The Company's ship Waterloo was all
well on the 25th of March, in lat. 1 N., lqng. 22 W.
The undermentioned ships arrived in Bengal is follows.
: Marchioness of Ely and Winchilsea, 10th of Novem-
ber, General Hewitt, 22d of December.
Med. on Saturday morning last, at his seat, Himley,
Staffordshire, William Lord Viscount Dudley and Ward,
Bares of Birmingham, Sc. tie. He was born January 91,
1760, and succeeded his half-brother in the year 1799. He
married is 1790 Julia, second daughter of Godfrey Bosville,
Esq., of Guethwaite, Yorkshire, the present Lady Dudley,
by whom he had issue one son, the Hon. John Wm. Ward,
the inheritor of the titles and estates.

MAILS.
AIM DUE. ARR. DUE.
I.... Dublin 0 I 0....H011and 0
2.... Waterford.....o o....Hambro
1.... G & J ersey... .0 I.... France 0
0.... Lisbon 0 O.... Flanders .......0
1 .... Gottenbarg... 0 0. ... Malta . .0

ST. PHILIP AND JAM Ell.—Holiday at Mel:tank.

Ott 5.14 tatesin an

THURSDAY EVENING, MAY 1, 1823.

PARLIAMENTARY COMMENTARY.

Last night, in the Commons, the Debate on Mr. Mac-
donald's motion was concluded. There was for the mo-
tion 1.0, and against it 372 by almost twenty to one.
Thus the motion for disapproving of the conduct of the
Ministers, in the late negociations, was lost.—This de-
bate, and the result of it will teach the French how to
judge of our situation even more correctly than they
could before.—The Ministers said, that the question was,
war, or peace. Oh!! no! said the other side. We do not
want War any snore Man you; but, you might have
prevented the invasion of Spain by strong rentonstran-
ecs.—This was the substance of the whole that was said,
except in the case of Sir Faasets Bunnerr and LORD
FOLKESTONE, the former of whom contended, that we
ought to have preferred war to what we now have, but
who did not point out the means; and the latter of
whom asserted, that we could have no war as long as the
Debt was what it now was.—There was sense in this;
but there was no sense in finding fault with the Minis-
ters for keeping peace, unless you are for going to war.
Long ago we said; long before Parliament met,
that the Ministers were on ag, rock of adamant at
against all those who were not ready to adopt mea-
sures to reduce the Debt. There has been a great dial of
rlfining; hut, at last, it has come to this, that the coun-
try is unable to go to war. Mr. Curies, who is what
they call a " gentleman opposite," said this: " that
" having, for two years, been calling upon the Ministers
" to reduce taxes, he could not blame them for keeping
" us out of war; and that, as to remonstrances, he be-
" lieved that they would not hare stopped the French,
" while they might have risked our neutrality." There
spoke Debt-ridden and sinking England ! This speech
was loudly cheered by the allinisters. We knew that it
must come to this at last ; that there most come out that
which would satisfy the French, that this country could
go to war no snore as long as the Debt existed to any
thing like its present extent. And thus are the brare
French people avenged! That Debt, which was con-
tracted fur the @purpose of crushing them, making them
slaves for ever, has let them loose already, and has
enabled them to sally out in search of conquests. Sir F.
BURDETT said, that if the Bourbons succeeded in Spain'
that success would tend to enslave the French. We do
not think so. And, as to the restoration of the estates
of the Nobles. and of the Church, which CAPTAIN MA-
REIM talked of, we entertain no fear of the kind. The
thing is impossible: the eleMents are destroyed.—The
Captain observed, that "our own liberties would next
have to stand the siege." Aye ; but the Bourbons

mustfind Mein first! They mustfind out oar "
tics" before they lay siege to them. The Captain in-
stanced the hostility of the Bourbons to free elections ;
but he did not say a word about seat-selling " as notori-
ous as the sun at noon-day." Oh ! these Bourbons
would be devils, indeed, if they were to " lay siege" to'
°atm and Old Sarum, and take our " free elections"
front us. Neat the Captain spoke of their hostility
to a "flee press." What would become of us, if the
Bourbons were to " lay siege to Si, Acts." Ah ! but
" trial by Jury," said the Captain. Yes, indeed, if the
Bourbons were to " lay siege" to the trials of men who
are found out of their houses in Ireland after dark : if

they were to lay siege to the Irish Insurrection Act,
which the Captain knows to be about to be renewed at
the request of the Marquis Wellesley; if they were, in
good earnest, to lay siege to the powers of our Justices
and our Commissioners of Excise and Customs, when,

they punish people without the aid of Juries ; if the
Bourbons were to lay siege to these powers ; and, if they
should actually capture them, what would become of us !
For our parts, we fear not the Bourbons. We say with
LORD HARROWBY, " let them come." Let them
take away " our liberties" if they can ! They
must find them first, at any rate; and, we should
like, of all things, to be present when they do it ; for,
then, according to ancient custom, we should hare a
right to cry " hakes !"—Oh, no ! Captain Maberly,
there is no fear, we can assure you, of the Bourbons
" laying siege to our liberties."—Sir JAMES MACKIN.
TOIIII said, in the course of his speech, that the Due de
Fitzjames had recently said, that" no Englishman now
" respected the Revolution of 1698 ; that though they
" found it convenient to talk of it with applause in put-
" lie. they were all ashamed of it." Why Sit James Mack.
intosh told the House of this, it would be hard to

say. We are very glad he did do it ; for, it will let the
country sec, that these Imbeciles, as some call them, un-
derstand something about England. In short, the
alarm lest the Bourbons should, when they have sub-
clued Spain, come and take our liberties away, will make
all sensible Frenchmen laugh. •At any rate, we despise
the attempt to persuade us, that we are in danger from
this source. We despise the man who affects to be-
lieve, that we enjoy as much freedom as is enjoyed by
the people of France. The termination of this debate
was curious, indeed. Mr. CANNING seems to have occu-
pied the House about three hours, and was followed by
Mr. Baouauetu,inaspeecbwhich chewed the vast superi-
ority of the latter, in point of knowledge as well as talent.
—However, if wejhad been present, we certainly should
have voted on neither side; for, there was this radical
vice in the attack upon the Ministers, that if it com-

plained of them, but, at the same time, expressed no opi-
nion that we ought to have gone to war. bl r. Dammam
said,as all the rest of the opposition said, that there ought to
have been stronger remonstrances. Long before the nego-
eiations were over, we said that this would be said ; and
we said that the Ministers would have a trium-
phant answer. We always said, that they would
stand upon a rock of adamant, unless against
those who would tell them to reduce the Debt
and go to all others they had

an answer ready ; and they, by no means, found in the O,i-
position,men with the boldness to tell them to reduce the in
tercet of the Debt. Without such reduction there can be
no war on the part of England. This the French were told
before by us. They have now heard it in a vote of the House
of Commons. Mr. MACDONALD wished VS withdraw his
motion at the end of three days of debate. This was not
permitted, however, and the diaision ensued. We always
said that such would be the result. We think that Mr.
MACDONALD will not be very eager to bring forward a great
motion again.

Madrid and German papers have arrived this morning.—
The former contains a notice from Count Abisbal, dated
April 15, containing an account from the political chief of
the province of Burgos, of the approach of the French to-
wards Vittoria. On the 191 h, a convoy was expected from
Vittoria with the Political Chief of that town, and of St. Se-
bastian, and a great number of emigrant families from both
cities, accompanied by 700 "voluntary militia, and a column
of the standing army. He himself was preparing to leave
Burgos with the Governor Gen. taking away all the effects
he possibly could. A squadron of artillery had already left it,
with 8 pieces of cannon, and a great number of waggons,
with effects and families of the patriots who were going to
Madrid with a suitable escort.

An article from Madrid says, that the activity and judi-
cious measures of Count Ahisbal, and the resolution of the
troops under his cornnini, will soon relieve that district
from the banditti that have fir some time infested it.

The German papers confirm the news that the Greeks bad
effected a landing on the coasts of Macedonia. They also
repeat the reports of the removal of the son of the Sultan by
the Janissaries, and of another fire at Constantinople; but
this intelligence requires confirmation.

Paris papers to the 29th ult. have been received. The
Sfoniteur gives the following Telegraphic despatch,
dated Vittoria, 24th of April
" The Fort Santona is closely invested.—Fort Laredo
was taken on the 21st inst., which makes us masters of
the coast.—The 2d corps, which is marching against Sa.
ragossa, communicates with us by the right bank of the
Ebro. Nothing new relative to the blockades of Pam.
peluna and St. Sebastian. According to letters from'
Madrid, the King arrived at Seville on the 10th inst."—
Letters from Perpignan to the 21st state, that the head-
quarters of Moncey continued at Jonquera. The French
troops, it appeared, entered on the 20th, at ten o'clock,
the open town of Figueras, whies was deserted by the
inhabitants. The fortress, which is almost impregnable,
and well garrisoned, fired upon the town on the entry
of the French.
FRENCH FENDS, APRIL 29.—Five percent. Consols open-
ed at SU. 10c. ; lowest 84f. ; closed at M. 30c.; Book
Stock, 1330 f.; Neapolitan Five per Cent., 74—Exchange
on London—One month, 23f. 70c. ; three ditto, 23f. 30c.

STOCK EICITANEE, TWELVE O'CLOCK.—It was thought
that the great Majority Ministers had last night, would have
had some important effect on the above market this morn-
ing; but Consols which opened at 7711, went up only to 13
at which price they remain steady. We do not hear as yet
of any Express from Paris with Tuesday's prices •f the
French Funds. The private letters from Paris this morning
do not bring any news of importance. They state that the
expenses of the French army in Spain is one million of
franks per day ; equal to forty thousand pounds English.
HALT-rho. TWELVE O'CLOCK.—An Express is arrived with
the French funds, 85, 50, an advance of one per cent., sup-
posed owing to its being settling day at Paris.
FOREIGN FUNDS.—We do not hear of any more failures
in the Foreign market since yesterday. There h but little
business doing this morning.
Chili, 071—New Spanish. 311, ex. dividend—New Prus.
situ-81/-01d Prussian, St—Russian, 752—Danish, SO
Columbian, 651

Boston Papers arrived this morning to the 2d April, of
which the following are extracts :
- - - - -

Captain Urwin informs us that the formidable expedition, 11
fitted out by the Peruvian Government against Arcia, had
been repulsed with much loss.
The Philadelphia Democratic Press contends that. how-
ever much we may dislike the cession of Cuba to Eneland,
we have no right to interfere ; and, that if we do, it will
arrange us on the side of the Holy Allies, in favour of
Despotism. •

From the Agent to Lloyd's, at Constant inople, dated
March 20:—
The Porte is obliging Swedish vessels, bound to, and
returning from, the Black Sea, to land such articles compos-
ing their cargoes as they may have occasion for. it also
appears that they do not intend to allow vessels with the
Russian flag, known to have previously had the Sardinian,
to pass into the Black See."
From the Agent to Lloyd's at Smyrna, dated March l3:—
" His Majesty's Ship, Martin, remains in Port, and we
continue in perfect tranquillity."
Extract of a letter from the Agents to Lloyd's, at Bilbao,
dated 20th April:—"There is a report in Town that an
English Brig from Rochfort, laden with provisions, bound
to St. Sebastian's, (now in a state of siege), has been taken
by a Privateer, and carried into Bermeo."
Extract of a letter from the Agents to Lloyd's, at Genoa,
dated April 19.
" It is reported that about 20 Privateers are fitting out at
Mahon."

---- -
Extract of a Letter from the Agents to Lloyd's, at Mar-
seilles, dated April 22 :
"The master of the French vessel. Amiable Pauline,
which arrived here yesterday from Smyrna, declares that on
the 10th inst. off Sardinia, he spoke with the master of a Sar-
dinian Brig, from Naples, bound to Cagliari, who informed
him that hostilities had commenced with Spain. and that a
Spanish Privateer was on the Southern coast of Sicily.
This is the first intimation we have of any Spanish Priva-
teer being out.
The Greek Committee have it in contemplation to con-
vene a Public Alerting. There arc now so many de-
tached sums for the Greeks scattered over the country,
that it is desirable they should be incorporated and
placed under the controul of proper persons.
It is reported that his Majesty intends to appropriate one
moiety of the legacy left him by Mr. Nollekins, towards the
support of the Academy for the Encouragement of British
Artists, recently established in Rome ' • and the other moiety,
to defray the expense of the New Building destined to con-
tain the Royal Library, the magnificent gift of his Majesty
to the British nation.

The most respectful and delicate attentions, it appears,
were paid to render the journey of the King of Spain to
Seville, commodious and easy. In the pass of the Sierra
Morena, where the road was rocky and rough, a private
letter from an English traveller says, groups of men were
employed in repaying it for the passage of the King.
Where it was rough for a carriage they strewed it thickly
with clay, and broke down all the prominent stones
which might have given shocks to the Royal invalid.
KING'S BENCH, 2 O'CLOCK THIS DAT.—J. Trust, one of
successors, was sentenced to six months imprison-
ment in Newgate, and to a tine of tilt, and to give sureties
for his good behaviour for five year, for publishing a blas-
phemous libel. This lenient sentence was pissed owing to
his renouncing his obnoxious principles, and declaring him-
self a Christian.

MARRIED.—On the gSth inst.. at St. Pancras new
•chureb, Mr. J. H. Hemp, of Tonbridge-platm, to Elizabeth,
widow of the late Anthony Geledneki, Eaq,, of New Brod-
street.
Tuesday, at St. Andrews, Mr. If. IPastea, of Onset Sur-
rey-street, surgeon, &e., to Miss Beak MOM otJ• Moult-
house, Esq., Earl-street, Illaekfriara.

London : Edited, Printed, and Published. el
" Tea STATIRSISAN," No. IW, Streak by. R. WARDELL.
LT..B. to whom all Communication, Orderk de. an re'
quested to be addressed.