The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-01-14 00:00:00

version

grant of a debt owing-tothecorW;tion:(Aear, hear.}
All he knew of the mortage was this :—lt was stated by the
applicants that it was desirable they should have a power of
of mortage, and then the power was given enabling them to
to mortage their property. Whether the amount of fine was
14s. and the value 21s. per square yard, he could not recol-
lect.

Mr. ASPINALL said he recollected it well, and repeated
that it had been sold for 14s. although it had been valued at
21s.

Mr. AKIN said the simple question for the council to decide
WAS whether the memorial should be referred.

The TOWNXLERKsaid it couid not be referred to the Fi-
nance Committee in defiance of the standing order.
Mr. AIKIN hoped that as a sneer had been thrown out
against the Mecanics' Institution, the interests of which he
had at heart, he would be permitted to reply.
Mr. GLo.DSTONE said that if Mr. AIKIN were permitted to
proceed he should have something to say in reply. (Hear.)
The MAYOR thought that if the councii would permit Mr.
Gladstone to withdraw his motion for the present, much
unnecessay discussion might be avoided.
The TOWN-CLERK said he had risen to reply to it more
than once, but had been prevented by the several members
who had risen up to speak. He understood the transaction
as to the Mechanics' Institution to be this :—The institution
had petitioned for the grant of a piece of land for seventy-
five years, which petition was in the time of the former coun-
cil, and the former council granted the prayer of it on the
condition that £2,000 should be paid for the land. In this
state of things the present council had come into power, and
it was then determined that that fine should be given up, that
a reversion of the property should be granted, and that the
grant should be carried into effect by a clause in the local
improvement act, which was then under notice in parliament.
With regard to the order of proceeding in the present case
there were many difficulties in the way of the motion for re-
ferring the memorial to the Finance Committee. In the first
place the standing order he had read would have to be dis-
posed of; and he thought that that standing order amounted
to such a resolution of principle that it required a notice, in
the first instance, of the intention to rescind. •The course,
therefore, would be, to give a notice for the next council, to
mention the memorial proposed to be referred to the Finance
Committee in it ; and, with regard to this object, to move
the suspension of the standing order. Independently of this,
however, there was another objection to the proceeding at
present, namely, that it was only by the sufferance of the
council that the memorial had been read, the council being
an adjourned one.
Mr. GLADSTONE said he had given notice at the last
council that he had a memorial to present.
The TOWN-CLERK observed that the other grc unds of ob-
jection were fatal against its reception under present
circumstances.
Mr. ASPINALL said he wished to know
Mr. BOLTON interrupted. He thought that the town-
clerk had already answered Mr. Aspinall's question.
Mr. ASPINALL begged that he might not be interrupted
by Mr. Bolton a second •time. He knew how to put his
questions without the interference of others. (Hear, hear.)
He wished to know whether the ground which was worth
21s had not been virtually sold for 14s. per square yard? He
remembered the circumstance well. It had occurred during
his mayoralty. It had been sold by the old corporation, and
a contract had been made between the parties. If he was
correct as to what took place subsequently, the grant, he
maintained, was one of money, and not of land. (Hear, hear.)
The TnwN-CLERK said he thought itiwould have clearly
appeared from his previous observations that the grant had
been one of money. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ASPINALL was thankful for the explanation, because
he wanted the council to u-Aderstand distinctly that the grant
to the Mechanics' Institution had been a grant of money and
not of land. (Hear, hear.)
Mr.GLADSTONE here begged leave to withdraw his motion.
Mr. AIKIN repeated his request. He trusted that, inas-
much as certain sneers had been thrown out calculated to
injure a public institution in the estimation of his fellow-citi-
zens, he might make a few observations.
The MAYOR said the council were not then in a position
to discuss the merits of either one institution or the other.
Mr. EARLE hoped the mayor would allow an explantion to
be made. Surely the mayor would not let a statement of
the kind go foward to the world and not allow an explanation.
Cries of "order.") Oh !yes, he understood the meaning of
the cry of "Order, order.', (A laugh.)
Mr. EVANS thought it advisable to discuss the question
off-hand, as it was before the public.
Mr. HENRY LAWRENCE thought a discussion of the
question unnecessary, as nothing had been said to the pre-
judice of the Mechanics' Institution.
The MAYOR repeated, that the discussion was not in order.
Mr. AIKIN was willing to bow with deference to the chair;
but he hoped, that as a reflection had been cast on an insti.
tution, and as a remedy could be brought to bear on the evil,
the opportunity of replying on the present occasion might
be afforded him.
The MAYOR said, he did not believe that such a degree of
reflection had been cast upon it as the gentleman seemed to
think.

Mr. Atairr reminded the Mayor of the observations which
had been made about its not affording a religious education,
and about the filling of the gaols if such a system pervaded
the country.
The MA:you. said, he recollected the observation.
Mr. AticiN wished to reply to such an unauthorised and
absurd statement, because it had been expressed with the
!enom which generally attached to the gentleman who uttered
it. (Uproar.)
Mr. HARBORD rose to order.
AMIN said, his reply would only consist of a few
sentences.

fromhe MAYOR. again interfered, and prevented Mr. Aikin
proceeding.
The subject then dropped.
POWNALL-SQUARE MARKET.
A memorial from the inhabitants of St. Paul's Ward, pre-
sented by Mr. Edwards, praying that Pownall-square Mar-
ket might be covered, was referred to the Markets Com-
mittee.

EARLY CLOSING OF THE MARKETS, &C.
The MAYOR presented two memorials, one from the
tradesmen and shopkeepers of Liverpool, and another from
their assistants, praying that all the markets in the town
should he closed at eight o'clock on Saturday evenings, and
of six o'clock every other evening.
Mr. BRIGHT, before, the second memorial was read, moved
that both do lie upon the table.
Mr. COOPER hoped that Mr. Bright would consent to
them being first read.
th Ms.
eer PROCTOR thought it would be very unhandsome if
.„„ memorials were disposed of without being read.
r. Alderman EARLE hoped that the very just remark of
Mr Proctor would be borne in mind on all occasions.
The MAyort then read the second memorial, and
Mr. JOHN SMITH observed that it was quite impossible to
close the markets at six o'clock, as requested.
Mr. BRIGHT said an arrangement between the masters
and their assistants were all very well ; but when he found a
body of the assistant shopmen and a few of the masters join-
ing in a petition to the extent of those just read, he must pro-
test against their'reception. In what situation would be the
Poor, who, perhaps, did not receive their wages until after
that hour, if the markets were closed at six. They might
want provisions, and they could not get them that evening,
and the following morning they had to go to work before the
markets were opened. He should move that the petitions
lie on the table.
Mr. JOHN SMITH moved that they be referred to the
Market Committee, who, he said, would make short work
of them.

Mr. JORDAN seconded Mr. Smith's motion, and it was
carried.

EMIGRATION FROM TELLS PORT.
The MAYOR presented to the council the annual return
transmitted by Lieutenant Henry of emigrants from this
port. The total number of emigrants from this port in 1840
was 40,259, in 1841, 48,829—Incraase, 8,570.

THE CORPORATION SCHOOLS.
The MAYOR read the following memorial in reference to
the school question, which he had received from Mr. Robt.
Roskell, the chairman of a meeting of the Roman Catholics
held on the 10th instant.

TO THE MAYOR AND COMMON COUNCIL OF THE BOROUGH

OF LIVERPOOL.
The Memorial of the Catholics of Liverpool, agreed to at a
Meeting held on the 10th day of January, one thousand
eight hundred and forty-two.

The catholics of Liverpool beg most respectfully to solicit
the attention of the mayor and corporation to the following
memorial, respecting a resolution recently passed by them in
council, by virtue of which the Catholic authorised version
of the sacred scriptures has been discarded from the corpo-
ration schools, and Catholic children (should any of them
hereafter attend) will be required to use the Protestant Bible,
and to join the other children in a Protestant form of prayer.
Previous to the passing of the above-mentioned resolution,
the opinion of the Catholic clergy of the town respecting the
then contemplated changes was laid before the council ; and,
these changes having since been adopted by the council, they
considered it their duty publicly to announce, last Sunday,
to their respective congregations, that Catholic parents can-
not, consistently with thir religious principles, send their
children to the corporation schools so long as the new
arrangements are adhered to.

The CatholiWol&tO;n, both clergy and laity, now beg
most respectfully to submit to the council the following con-
siderations :

Under the present existing circumstances, the great mass
of the poor children of their communion must necessarily
be excluded from the corporation schools.
The number of poor Catholic children, requiring a gratui-
tous education, exceeds, by a very great majority, the poor
children of any other religious denomination. Hitherto the
Catholic children attending the corporation schools have sur-
passed in number the children of all other denominations.
After the withdrawal of the Catholic children from the
corporation schools, on the before-mentioned grounds, these
schools can, 'consequently, no longer be considered public
schools, but schools provided for the education of children
who either are not catholics, or whose parents, being Catho-
lics, can be induced, by the bribe of secular education, to
withdraw themselves from the direction of their clergy in
religious matters.

It is a principle of government, sanctioned by the highest
names in philosophy, that those who govern should extend
their care to the whole body of the community, and not con-
tine it to one particular part. " Qui Reipublicte pratfuturi
aunt, duo Platonis prtecepta teneant. Lnurn ut utilitatem
civium sic tuen;.dr ut qutecunque agunt ad cum referant.
Alterum, ut totem corpus Reipublico curent, ne, darn par_
tem aliquain tuentur, reliquas deserant" (Cicero de officiis) ;
and, furthermore, that those who (in governing) consult the
interests of one part of the citizens, whilst they neglect ano-
ther part, introduce into a city the most pernicious of evils,
sedition and discord. " Qui autem parti civium consulunt,
Partein negligunt,rem perniciosissimum in civitatem inducunt,
seditionem atque discordiam." (Cicero de officiis.)
In accordance with this principle, the legislature of this
country, in the act which it passed for the regulation of mu-
nicipal corporations in England and Wales, and by virtue of
which the present corporation if Liverpool exists, has pro-
vided that " in case the borough fund shall be more than
sufficient for the purposes aforesaid, the surplus thereof shall
be applied, under the direction of the council, for the public
benefit of the inhabitants, and improvement of the borough.'

, ft era I, &r elate by applyl t
unroug4 how_ . _ t... torgiet at the
'4r- to 1110 guonn't., of

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11310 of

14404 t,, wilt by violeting bPtl; the reeognt:eri r
good goverment and the legal enactment of the legislature
The memorialists beg further to submit to the council that
a plan of public gratuitous education for Ireland, somewhat
similar to the plan now adopted by them for Liverpool, has
already been abandoned by the government of this country,
in consequence of its acknowledged impracticability ; that,
so far as the question of public gratuitous education is con-
sidered, the state of Liverpool is analogous to that of Ireland,
and that therefore it would be highly injudicious to persist
in pursuing the adopted plan, which past experience has
shown to be impracticable.
• The memorialists conceive that the arguments and reasons
herein by them alleged, afford the council sufficient grounds
for a reconsideration of their decision. They earnestly pray
that such reconsideration may take place, and they fervently
hope that it will lead the council to rescind the resolution
which has been passed, and to adopt some plan of a more
liberal and efficient character, which, whilst it will afford the
means of obtaining a literary education to all, will interfere
with the religious principles of none.
Should the council refuse to entertain this petition, in that
case the memorialists cannot but consider that their just and
legal rights have been violated. And your memorialists, &c.
Signed on behalf of the said meeting, •

Rover. ROSKELL. Chairman

• Mr. EARLE thought it would be well if the Education
Committee retired for a few Minutes, and gave the council a
translation of the Latin contained in the memorial. (A laugh.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said he had no objection to the proposi-
tion, provided Mr. Earle accompanied them. (Great laugh-
ter.)

Mr. BIRRETT said, that although it was the bounden duty
of the council to receive every petition that was respectfully
worded, there was a circumstance connected with the present
one which would justify them in refusing it altogether; and
that was, because the parties came before the council under
an assumed name. (Hear, hear.) He would not call it a
false name, least it might• be offensive. It purported to have
emanated from the Catholics, and it called the clergy of the
Romish Church " the Catholic clergy." He considered that
himself and those who were members of the established
church of the land were Catholics, and that the Catholic
clergy consisted of the Rev. Rector Brooks, the Rev. Rector
Campbell, and the other learned and pious ministers of the
Church of England. (Hear.) He considered those to be the
0,,1y Catholic clergy of the town, and the other parties to be
clergymen or priests of a foreign dominant power. (Hear.)
Mr. EARLE.—Oh !

Mr. BIRKETV contended that this was the strictly legal
interpretation of their name. They had as much right to
come forward and call themselves the Earl of Derby, or
the Earl of Stamford and Warrington, as to call themselves
the " Catholic " clergy of Liverpool. (Hear.)
Mr. SHAND agreed in opiniun with Mr. Birkett, and
thought they had assumed an incorrect name. He thought
they should have come forward as the Roman Catholic clergy
and inhabitants of Liverpool, particularly in a town where
the Anglican Catholic church existed. They ought properly
to have come under their proper denomination.
Mr. Jo FIN SMITII.—It is understood!
Mr. SHAND thought it but just and right that the denomi-
nation of the parties should be correctly stated.
Mr. EVANS thought the two gentlemen who had spoken
last knew very little of the etiquette of the world. At Dub-
lin Castle the catholic bishops were received as bishops. If
the premier of England were addressing any one of them by
letter, would he not designate them as clergymen? One
gentleman was constantly getting up and giving lectures, or
rather sermons, and at length he would occupy the place of
chaplain to the council—(a laugh)—but, in his mind, he be-
longed to a remote period when they were legislating against
witches and wizards. (Continued laughter.)

Mr. EARLE believed the gentlemen were 'not aware that
the catholic clergy could go into the church of England
without undergoing any ceremony or ordination.

Mr. AIKIN rose for the purpose of saying that the term
" catholic " did not appear to be understood. The catholics
believing theirs to be the true church, had as much right to
use it as had the protestants ; but was there any valid reason
in all this for refusing the petition ? He trusted the time of
the council would not be occupied in discussing the merits
of the protestant religion, or of an established religion in the
land, and that they would not denounce institutions which
were calculated to do so much good as the Mechanics' Insti-
tution. He thought the tradesmen of the town, after their
hard day's labour, should be encouraged to go to an institu-
tion where they could learn mechanical drawing and the liv-
ing languages, which were of such inestimable value to the
tradesmen •f England. The last time he was in France, he
met a Liverpool man conducting a steam-boat on the Seine,
who was unable to speak a word of French.
The MAYon. said that Mr. Aikin was going back to a sub-
ject already disposed of.
Mr. SANDS said, he deeply regretted that the Roman Ca-
tholic clergy had taken the step they had on Sunday last, in
counselling the people, from the pulpits of chapels, not to send
their children to the corporation schools. (Hear.) It ap-
peared extraordinary to him that they should allow the chil-
dren of Catholic parents to go to other schools in the town
where the Scriptures were taught. He had already stated in
the council, that in one school one-third of the children
belonged to Roman Catholic parents.
Mr. MELLoa.—What school is that ?

Mr. SANDS said, he would be happy to tell the gentleman
if he asked him the question privately. (" Oh, oh 1" from
the radicals.) He would dive his reason for not answering
it publicly. (Hear, hear.) He feared that if he were to do
so the Roman Catholic clergy would adopt the same means
of depriving the children of the benefits of the education
they now enjoyed that they had been doing on Sunday last
in reference to the corporation schools. He would, however,
give the name in private; but he could not sit down without
saying again that he deeply deplored the interference of the
Roman Catholic priesthood.
Mr. EARLE thought it rather curious to hear gentlemen
talking of the influence of the pulpit, when they must be
aware that the pulpit had been used on a former occasion to
prevent the Protestant children from frequenting the schools.
In support of this assertion, Mr. Earle referred to a conver-
sation he had had with a female, in which she told him that
a sermon preached by the minister of the church in Glou-
cester-street consisted of a denunciation of the schools.

Mr. HARBORD said it was necessary to put the council in
possession of certain facts which came under his notice on
Monday last, which would bear on the present memorial, and
show the impropriety there would be in receiving it. (Hear.)
He had admitted several children between the hours of nine
and ten o'clock on that morning. Two twins were brought
in by their mother, a widow, who trusted that the children
would be admitted; and before he could assure her that they
would, she said she herself was a catholic, or connected with
catholics, and that she would suffer to be turned into the
street by her friends rather than keep the children away.
She said her husband when living was a protestant, that he
would have brought the children up in his own faith, and
that she would be as faithful to him in death as she had been
during his life. She added that she had received many
threats, but that, in despite of all, she begged the children
might be brought up as protestants. They were received.
(Hear, hear.) Another instance of a similar nature had also
occurred. When three of the committee were leaving the
school they met a Roman catholic woman crying outside the
door. One of the gentlemen asked her what was the matter?
She said two of her children had been at school during the
day, bul she was afraid that they would be turned out. She
was then told that the children would be quite safe, and that
a circular was about to be printed contradicting the false
statements which were afloat as to the intentions of the com-
mittee, and encouraging the children of all classes to come
to the schools. After being again assured that her children
would never be turned out, she said she would as soon they
were brought up protestants as catholics. (Hear.) It ap-
peared, however, that in the course of the afternoon the Ro-
man catholic priests absolutely wentinto schooland threatened
the children in various ways, and so frightened them that
twenty or thirty never returned. It further appeared that
the said priests had taken other liberties, for which, if he
had been present, he would have given them in charge of the
police. (Hear.) He believed the chairman of the committee
would put the council in possession of certain facts which
would show that the Roman catholic priests had taken other
unwarrantable liberties in the schools at an early hour of the
day. (Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT felt surprised at the squeamishness some of
the gentlemen present had evinced. They betrayed a fear
there was something superior in popery which would endan-
ger the faith of the Protestant children, if they were allowed
to mix together in the same building. As a member of the
Church of England, he protested against such a fear. He
believed that the Protestant faith was based on sounder
principles. He had often heard it argued, both in the coun-
cil and elsewhere, that the ground on which the Romish
religion was maintained was the ignorance in which the priest-
hood kept the people, and that the former were opposed to
all education among the laity ; but, good God ! was it not
most extraordinary that the gentlemen on the opposite side
should be so much alarmed at any attempt that was made to
educate the Catholics. _

The MAYOR said that the speaker seemed to have misun-
derstood Mr. Harbord altogether.
Mr. BRIGHT said he was not alluding to Mr. Harbord in
particular; but to others of the gentlemen opposite. It
struck him as extraordinary that there should be any fear or
alarm evinced that, by the educating of the Catholics, idola-
try would be disseminated. If there were any error in the
Romish church, the best plan that could be adopted, would
be to enlighten the minds of the children, in order that they
might see what that error was ; but if they kept them in
darkness, they would undoubtedly remain ignorant of it for
ever.

Mr. JORDAN said he had been connected with St. Patrick's
School for many years, and that there was no religion what-
ever taught the children in that instiitution. They had
therefore no differences ; they simply told the parents, in the
first instance, to take the children to whatever places of
worship they frequented themselves. There had never been
any differences of religion between the children so as to
create discord. A register of crime was kept, and since the
formation of the school only six of the pupils had been pub-
licly punished at the Police-office, although there were be-
tween 300 and 400 children in the establishment.

Mr. HARBORD asked whether the school in question had
not become bankrupt?
Mr. JORDAN did not reply.

Mr. YATES said that a; a most violent and unwarrantable
attack had been made upon the catholic clergy, he hoped he
should be permitted to make some observations in reply to
it. One gentleman said he would commit the catholic cler-
gymen to the charge of the police ; but in his (Mr. Yates's)
opinion, those clergymen, in acting the part they had acted,
had done nothing but their duty. He thought they had done
well to come forward without a moment's delay, because
there had beer, no delay, but on the contrary, a breathless
haste, upon the part of the Education Committee, in carry-
ing into effect the resolutions of the former council. The
council had met on Wednesday, and upon the Friday follow-
ing the committee assembled and passed orders which had
led to the ejectment of 900 catholic children. (" No, no,"
from the conservatives.) On the same day they dismissed
two of the masters; and he begged of the council to observe
that upon the same day Mr. Hodgson declared he had re-
spectable testimonials in his possession from Mr. Cloud and
Mr. Jones, whom he recommended as the successors to those
masters. Was not this breathless haste ? On the next day
they met again, and dismissed more of the masters and mis-
tresses. There was no occasion to have been in so great a
hurry to destroy a system which had produced incalculable
advantages, and in whieli the spirit of Christ appeared in its
loveliest form. He would, if he thought there was any
chance, entreat the council to reconsider the opinion given
upon the former occasion.
Mr. MOLYNEUX said he was very unwilling to rise, either
on the present occasion, or on any other ; but it was abso-
lately necessary that the committee should have met as soon
as possible to carry out the determinations of the former
council. The schools were to open on Monday, and on the
day after the meeting of the council it was necessary that the
notices should be issued for the meeting of the committee,
because a number of rules had to be printed in the interim,
for distribution among the children and their parents. Ac-
cordingly the committee met on Friday, and proceeded to
frame the rules to be given to the parents. After this had
been done they called in the two masters, and, so far from
dismissing them, he was not aware that they had eve❑ been
summoned to attend : they were there, however, and the in-
structions were given to them. They were told that, from
the alterations made in the principle of the management of
the schools, it would be necessary for them to alter the sys-
tem. The master of the North School said he could not
carry the intentions of the committee into effect ; therefore
he declined doing so : the master of the South School also
declined. They both decided that they could not, and would
not, read a prayer in the schools. The master of the North
School scarcely read a prayer in the school; but he occa-
sionally got one of the monitors to read the Lord's prayer.
That was one grand objection that they made ; and as to the
reading of the Bible, they declined it altogether. They each

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might re-consider their resignations, and, if they had chosen,
they might have altered their opinions. So far for the " great
haste" in dismissing these masters, which was the principal
point he had risen to answer. The following day the entire
committee assembled to receive these resignations in writing;
and as these masters bad resigned, the committee thought it
necessary to summon all the other masters and mistresses,
to ascertain if they were willing to carry out the views of the
council. They were asked the question individually ; they
were each asked whether they had read the rules, and whe-
ther they would carry them out. Those who said they would
not, of course resigned, and those who would, were retained.
But there had not been, to this day, a single person turned
off, neither master nor mistress; nor had a single apprentice
been spoken to whether they would stay or not;
_ nor a single
child, except by the Roman Catholic priests. Greatly did he
regret to have to mention them, for he never interfered with
them nor their religion ; but the circumstances he was about
to state ought to be mentioned. He had not, however, any
formal report of them at present, and had derived his infor-
mation from hearsay. It had been told to him yesterday, by
the mistress of the North School, that the Roman Catholic
priest had been there, and attacked the mistress of the infant
school very fiercely, and required her to turn out all the
Roman Catholic children ; and he (Mr. Molyneux) was much
pleased with the very proper manner in which she replied
to him. She declined doing so. After that they went into
the girls' room, and there the priest became quite excited.
He required the mistress to muster immediately the nomad
Catholic children, dismiss them, and turn them out of the
school at once. This demand she declined. He then ad-
dressed the children very fiercely, and called out those who
were Roman Catholics; and next he demanded from the
mistress the names of all the children of Roman Catholic
parents, and where they resided. This she refused to give
to anybody, as it was not her duty, and he had behaved in a
very rude and improper manner. He (Mr. Molyneux) was
sorry to mention these circumstances ; hut he was called
upon to do so by the remarks which had been made. The
education committee had never turned off either master, mis-
tress, apprentice, or scholar; in fact, they had done every-
thing they could to keep the children by kind feeling, and
by circulating a little address among their parents, that they
might know how anxious they were to have their children in
the corporation schools. From what he bad heard, there
would haVe been a great many Roman Catholics in the
schools even now, if it had not been for the decided interfer-
ence of the Roman Catholic priests, not only from the altar
but in the schools.

D that the

Mr. EARLE moved that the petition be referred to the
Education Committee for their consideration and report.
Mr. BOLTON eeoonded the proposition.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES said that he had been in the first in-
stance anxious for the adoption of some measure which would
have the effect of keeping the Roman catholics in the schools ;
but if any circumstances could have convinced him that he
was in error, the memorial which had been presented, coupled
with the placard on the walls and the sermon delivered in one
of the chapels on Sunday last, were more than sufficient for
the purpose. Nothing would satisfy the priests but the
teaching of the Roman catholic catechism in the schools. He
believed that the resolutions to which the council had come
upon the former day in relation to the schools were the best
they could have adopted. (Hear, hear.) He moved as an
amendment that the memorial do lie on the table.
After a few observations from Mr. Priestley and Mr. Par-
ker, the latter of whom seconded the amendment,
The council divided, when there appeared,—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority for the amendment .. —4
The following gentlemen voted in the division :

For the Amendment—Messrs. Shaw, Shand, 1. Holmes,
R. Houghton, Copeland, Edwards, Blundell, Sands, Aspinall,
Toulmin, James Lawrence, Robinson, Cooper, Wood, Bir-
kett, Gladstone, Kilshaw, Parker, A. Smith, jun., Harbord,
Houghton, Griffith, Clinton, Bramley-Moore, Molyneux,
and the Mayor.

Against it—Messrs. Thornhill, Preston, H. Holmes, Mel-
lor, J. Holmes, Bolton, Aikin, Bright, Priestley, Yates, H.
Lawrence, Procter, Jordan. Platt, Mather, Holt, Bulley,
Evans, Barclay, Earle, and Turner.
Mr. AIKIN here called upon Mr. Harbord to withdraw
certain expressions he was reported to have used upon the
last day in reference to Mrs. Rathbone, when speaking of
the books in the schools.

Mr. H ARBORD made the amende in very handsome terms,
and the subject dropped.

THE DIVISIONS

Mr. BOLTON, in pursuance of notice to that effect, sub-
mitted the following motion :—" That the election of mayor
and members of committees, together with the appointments
to offices, and all other matters submitted to the council for
consideration, shall be determined and decided upon by a
numerical majority of the whole of the members present when
such appointment or matter is put to the vote ; and if, on any
question, there shall be more than two persons or matters
put to the vote, the voting on such question shall not be
final until a majority of the whole of the members present
shall decide thereon."

Mr. HENRY HolmEs seconded the motion, which was
carried unanimously.

PAVING AND SEWERAGE COMMISSIONERS

Mr. EARLE, in pursuance of notice, submitted the follow-
ing motion :—" That it be an instruction to the Finance
Committee to obtain the insertion of a clause in the proposed
paving and sewerage bill for enabling the majority of the
commissioners to transfer the powers of the commissioners
to the council, if at any time hereafter it shall be deemed
by such majority expedient ; or that it be ascertained by the
committee that the law as now existing gives such power to
the majority of the commissioners."

Mr. F.v.:Ns seconded the motion.
Mr. John Holmes, Mr. Aspinall, Mr. Birkett, and Mr.
Gladstone opposed it; after which
Mr. EARLE briefly replied.
The council divided, when there appeared—
For the motion l5
Against it
The motion was consequently lost. The following gentle-
men voted in the division :

For the motion— Messrs. Thornhill, Preston, Mellor,
Aikin, Bright, Priestley, Yates, Jordan, Platt, Mather,
Holt, Bulley, Evans, Barclay, and Earle.
Against it—Messrs. Shaw, Shand, I. Holmes, Copeland,
Edwards, H. Holmes, J. Holmes, Bolton, Aspinall, J. Law-
rence, Robinson, Cooper, H. Lawrence, Wood, Birkett,
Gladstone, Procter, Rigby, Kilshaw, Parker, J. Smith,
Harbord, Griffith, Chilton, Bramley-Moore, Molyneux, and
the Mayor.

This having disposed of all the business on the paper, the
council separated.