The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-10-09 00:00:00

THE STATEiM

THE QUEEN.

gOtJSE OF T.ORDS...-(Twee llioantne.)
After prayers, the Peers were called over as nsnat.
iv defaulters were Ilse:flint Anson, the Marquis of
gofer, sad the Puke of Argyle.
cowl were then called- in. and Dr. HENRY
HobLoß pr' %%Iced as a witness, on the part of
her Majesty, and sworn..
basiseil by Mr. 11 it nr.—Did yon leave England
15 the year VII, with her Royal Highness the
Hues of Wales, as Physician to her household P—l

did.
NJ you go with her Royalllighness to Naples?

Tr*
Pid to 7entlin with her daring the whole of the
t w she continued at Naples ?—yes..
What description of vi.itors slid her Royal flightless
reeire whi:e %he was at Naples --11"ith very few ex-
opf,oni, all the nobility, (foreign as well as New.

politas•
moo did her Royal Highness go to from Naples?
_To RAW and Henna.
Do per on board the elorinde with her Royal
grimmer—l did.
*64 description of visitors did her Royal Highness
retire at tienoa?-1 believe all the Euglish nubility
then at Gems.
Wink her Royal Highness was at Genoa did you oh-
serre an inclination in her Royal Highness to avoid the
ietr of the English ?—Certainly not.
Wliat was the situation, as to publicity, of the home
o„.„pied by her Royal Highness at tienoa?—lt was
about half a wile from town, but on a spot very thickly
inhabited.
Do eon know that a person of the name of Bergami
was is the wilier of her Royal Highness ?—Ves.
Did he at any time dine at the table of her Royal
Halmos daring her stay at Genoa
At all the places you have mentioned, what, accord-
in: to me observation, was the behaviour of her Royal
Highly* towards Bergaini ?—Always that of a mistress
toads her servant.
Rig was that of Bergami towards her Royal High-
aro —Never any thing but conduct the twist unpre-
On1:11; ant respectful.
Was there any understanding between you and her
Ffryal Hi ,4hness as to the time you were to stay with
bet:—lies. It was understood that I was to remain a
year and au half sr two years.
Where did you tinit her Royal Ilighness?—At Venire.
At trios(' s%r:r3tiOn Wan it that von went on to Ve-
?— .1:y to.: o.
Whet yon left her Royal Highness at Venice, was it
orderstood that yon had ,p,itted her service altogether,
or that yen ran to return !—lt WAS understood that I
was to retirn.
What was the occasion of your leaving her Royal
flightless at Venice to go to England ?—At 31ilan, her
R.,val Highness rave sue six weeks leave of abseMe to
tale a tour in Switzerland, and I expressed a wish that
iwead of going to Switzerland, her Royal Highness
wnclJ pernit me to go to England, where Inv private
:I:r2f'Scaliell for my presence; and then the tineAtiou
ere., 'anther I should quit her at 11ilan, or go on to
Venire.

Do von OW-miser the persons of distinction who vi-
si!rd lice floral Highness at Genoa ?—ltalians as well
F.ag:i.s.
&pod enough to Lune some of them 7—Lord Whit-
woad, Lord Malpas. Lord William Bentinck, and the
wavier Officers of the Army and Navy.
Cross-esamined by the SoLicivon-tlENnua
Da yea remember at limos, Bergami's meeting with
to accident do not.
At Nr.ples?-1 do.
Was be conl;urd to his bed for three or fonr days in
consequence was.
Du von latow what servant attended bins --Ilajoeci.
Vino! Majocci at that time sleep in a small cabinet,
or wljoining room belonging to Bergawi do not
know.
Do you remember a sofa in that cabinet ?—1 do not.
Am I to understand that ♦on do not remember one
way or the other 2—.1 do not recollect either one way or
the other.

With r •spect to tne situation of the house at Geneva,
you have %%act! that it was iu the subnrbs, that the
suburbs wore populous; pray was it not in a court ear
rounded by a garden, with some buildings at the back
—There was a small garden in front of the house; the
terrace, garden, with a wood behind.
Were you in the habit of dining every day with her
Revd Highness at Naples and Oe►,oa?----At Genoa every
day:, at Nap!es not.
Ito you remember a masqned Ball at Naples, given
ito hooey of the Neapolitan king:-1 was not there.
Were you at the Theatre San Carlo., at a Inas-
Twat!, was.
Wbo dill her Royal Highness go with ?—1 was not
aaare until the folluning day th.t she had been there.
Were vos present during the whole performanre ?
Moot an hour, as far as 1 can recollect, certainly a
short time.

Aro 1 to understand that von do not know with whom
her Royal Highness went to the Theatre that evening?
—lrs, you are.
Yoe Lve stated that as far as you have observed of
the continct of her Royal Highness towards Hergami,
it WAS that of a mistress to a servant. Allow me to ask
you, hate you, on any one occasion, observed any im-
propriety as the conduct of her Royal Highness towards
tierpon, or have you ever matte any such observation ?
--I never dial observe any impropriety.
Are Jon acquainted with a Minister at York sm.
Having reminded you of that circumstance, allow me
to ask you if vow ever elated to any person that you dis-
approved of du modem of her Royal Highness towards
Itergami saver bays.
Have vow, Di. Holland, ever informed any one what-
ever, that yon thought the conduct oilier Royal High-
"' laaciarect, tr say Ibis, to that effect ?—I have not
Ido not ask that pertly .with reference to Hergami,
bet whether yotonatle any observation to any individual
Whatever der,,gat
ovj from what her conduct on ht to
bate been ?—I an so satisfied of the negative, thatl will
venture ,o linear it.
We all know, Dr. Holland, that you have published
certain travels; you will excuse me fur calling that to
row recollection, bat I now wish to ask whether you
have had any occasion to alter any opinion you had
wtitten?

Mr. IVt Lee objected to this filtration, and the objec-
tion was topported by the Lord Chancellor.
Have yon always entertained the same opinion since
ren have hail an opportunity of observing the conduct of
her Royal Highness?-1 feel it. quite impossible to state
every finetnatton of sty opinions, but 1 hare never had
anv change of opinion on this suljoet•
bid roe ever state to env one that the conduct at bee
Royal highness was each that no one who had any re-
gard for character wield remain with her, or something
to that wives ?-1 art satialleel I did not.
Did Pin duty lend you w be oath abort the perboo
irthe Primes' 7—Tery little. •
You were engaged Nets peineipaNy pier own Ow
eir", or studies r Ala seithiPy mien 'A interfere *kb
Prefelsiond etragetobid upwards her UPI MO'
atak

Was not the principal opportunity of observing the
conduct of her Royal Highness, that which was atiorded
at ;he time of dinner?—lt was.
except as the duties of your profession required, you
did not attend her Royal Highness in the forenoon or
in the evening, but merely at the time of dining?—Es-
cepting when her Royal Highness received society In
the evening, 1 did not.
At that time did Bergansi wait at table?—He did.
Both at Naples and Ueuoa?—Both at Naples and
Genoa.
How long were you at Milan with her Royal High-
ness before proceeding to Venice ?—About a fortnight.
Do you remember any of the family of Berganti en-
tering the service of the Princess at tienoa ?-1 do not.
Do you not remember a female entering the service
there, called Fanstina, who was the sister of Bergami ?
—1 am not aware of it.
1/0 you mean that you are not aware that Faustina
entered the service, or she was not the sister of Bergatui ?
—I do not remember her.
Was there a little child there, named Victorine?—
There was a child, whose name I do not know.
Was there a female with the child i—l saw an elderly
female, and it was said, that she was the mother of Her-

Was she the only female that you
.recollect coining
with the child to enter the Princess's service at I;entia
—She WWI.

Do you remember a person called Louis Bergansi en-
tering the service ?-1 do.
In what cgp•trity (lid he enter ?TI cannot answer.
Did von see him wait at table ?—1 did.
Dist he wear a livery ?—lle did.
M what period of your stay at Henna did Louis Bet
garni enter the service ?-1 du not recollect.
Was it at the beginning or the latter end as far you
recollect ?—As far as I recollect it was towards the .be-
ginning.
How long (lid Lady Charlotte Campbell continue with
her Royal Ilighnesa at Milan?—To within three or four
days of her Royal Highness's depart:ire.
After Lady Charlotte Campbell left was there any lady
except Madame Oldi with her Royal Highness 7t—'There
was not.

how soon after Lady C. Campbell left, did Madame
Oldi enter the service`?---As far as I recollect a day or
two.

Yon dial not travel in the same carriage with her
Royal Highness ?---1 did not : I have on some occasions,
but not then.

I speak of the journey from Milan to Venice ?-- 1 did
uot.

When Madame Oltli first rame into the service were
you aware that she waa the sister of Vergauti :--• I was
not.

How long after did yon know that site was the sister
of liergaini did slot know it while I attended Ler
Royal IliFlitiess.
What tune elapsed after Madame Olin entered the ser-
vice that you erased to attend ?----Eight months.
When volt arrived at Venice, did her 110y41 Highness
go to an hotel ?--S.ist
Did her Royal Hitt'mess continue there during her
whole resideuee at Vetlice?—She did not.

flow long did she remain there?-1 rather think one
night.
Where did she Ito then?—To a house adjoining the
hotel, into Imlging4.
Was 51r. William Burrell with you at that time ?—He
was.

Dui you and Mr. Burrell go to leer Royal Highness,
or remain at the Hotel?—We remained.

Did voc dine at the house where her Royal Highness
removed, or at the Hotel the house to %thick her
Royal Highness removed.
iVith her Royal Highness ?-IYith her Royal High-
ness.

Do you rerollect whether von dined there every day
during tLe time you were at Venice ?—I believe every
flay.

bid her Rufal Highness quit Venice before yon, or
did you leave first ?—I left it first.
Dtd you ever after rejoin her Royal Highness ?
Never.
Do you know If Madame Olui spoke French ?—1 do
not know. _ _ .

Ihil von ever bear her ?—1 always conversed with
her in Italian.

Re-examined by Mr. illi.nr.

Was her Majesty's house *in Genoa in a conspicuous
situation, or a private one —l'onspicitous.
How long have von been in England since you left
her Royal Highness's service —Si?x years.
Hare you Generally resided in England during that
period F—l have.
have you ever been examined before upon this sub-
ject ::—Never.
By Lord Emit:is:E.—Referring to all the time, and
all the places at which you attended the Princess. did
you ever observe any thing indecent, immodest, or
improper in her bt'havionr have not.
By Lord tittev.—Did you at any time observe in
the conduct of her Royal Highness any condescension
calculated to be disgraceful to the character of this
country ?—1 believe I can answer decidedly no..
Was any application mule to you by any person for
information respecting the Princess's conduct, during
the time you were in her service ?—No application
whatever.
Some important questions were put by Lord LACIMIR-
DALC, as to the situation of Bergami's room with respect
to that of Dr. Holland, during the illness of the former.
Lord Latroaanat.E.—Does Dr. Holland recollect
the room he slept in at Genoa ?--I do.
In the next room you slept in, did nut Hieronymus
sleep there ?--Yes.
And William Austin ?—Yes.

Where did the great passage lead out of the corri-
dor towards your room ?--Into the dining-room.
Lord ORANTHAM.—Does Dr. Holland remember on
the same floor in which Bergami and he slept, whe-
ther there was a water-closet, as described by a former
witness ?-1 cannot say.
Here some delay occurred by reading over the croee
examination of Dr. Holland.
Lord IVINCHILSIA.—Do you know any thing of
the Queeti the last six years ?—lt is five years last
June, since I left the Princess, since that time, 1 can-
not say any thing of her.
Lord Itos..—Doctor Holland, you have written a
book of travels, may 1 ask to whom you dedicated it?
1-1 did not dedicate it at all.
To whom did you intend to dedicate it -t—i did in-
tend dedicating it.
I Will you swear positively that you did not mention
to any one that you intended dedicating it to the Qneen ?
—1 will..
Does the Queen speak Italian?—When I was with
hei she spoke it imperfectly.
Can you say how she because acquainted with the
Countras of Ofdi ?-1 do not.
Did you not tloink it stra how she could MOW
lase due service, with kstow who shnwas ? ••
:5
There was seMP objection 20-Nair qwestless." We
04141 aothese the suewer. • "• •
Did yes sent who she was ?—la sight he. bat I do
net exactly recency.

•
By a Peat.—At Clean* I understand you dined
almost every day with the Princess ?—Almost every
day.
41d Berganii ever sit down at the table on those
occasions ?—Never.

•You think you dined every day with her Royal
Highness ?—1 really believe 1 did.
By the Earl of thaftownv.—Did you ever hear
her Royal Highness and the Countess of Uldi speak
in French ?--I do not recollect that I did.

Did you ever hear the Countess of OW speak
French at all?--1 do not recollect, I think not.

What was the particular dialect of the Italian lan-
guage which was ob•ervable about that of the Coun-
tess of Ob ?--It was the dialect of Lombardy.
Is that the Italian which is learnt by those who learn
the Italian language from hooks?—There is a difference
certainly.
I mean is that Italian the Italian which is generally
spoken by people of quality and education ?—lt certainly
is not the pure Italian.
Did you ever hear the rounte4 of Oldi speak port
Italian:—lt is difficult for me to say. 1 think there was
a peculiarity.
Das it occurred to von that the ('nnntrss of 01.11 ever
spoke pure Italian's--That question it is dilleult to an-
swer. I bail few opportunities of convcising with the
Countess of Obli.

1k a PF-Ell.—DOeS the accent of Lombardy differ
from the pure Italian any more than the Scotch arrent
whirls is spoken by people of talent and education, differs
from the pure English ?—lt is impossible fur me to an-
swer that question.
By the LORII CIIANCELLOR.—VOII have told ns that
Bergami never sat at table wills the Princess at Genoa;
slid Ise ever sit at table with her Royal Highness any
where else ?—Never.

By a PEER.-1)111 the Princess ever in your hearing
express any dissatisfaction at the situation of her house
at lienua ?—1 do not recollect to have heard her distinctly
express any dissatisfaction, but I know she went to look
at another house for the purpose of taking it.
Did she ever assign any reason for wishing to change
her residence at liettaa never heard her assign a
reason._

1 understood yon to say, that during the whole of the
time you were in the service of her Royal Highness
Ilergi )))) i was a menial servant ?—Yes.
Hid you ever at any time, or under any circumstance
whate%er, remark that her Royal Highness conducted
herself in a manner inconsistent with that relation in
which her Royal Highness as Princess of %Vales should
stand towards her servants ?-1 beg to observe, that her
Royal Highness in general was very condescending and
affable to her servants • but 1 never observed any dif-
ference between her behaviour to Bergatui and that to
her upper servants.
Then I am to understand that you account for the
condescension of her Koval Highness towards Bergaini
from the circnntstance of her general condescension to
all her servants?—Yes, I never observed any difference.
By another PM:B.--M what period dial you first
enter the service of her Royal Highness when she left
Ragland. that was I. I tsl I, I believe ?—Ves, in Au-
gust 1414.

Pe,aro

How long did von remain in her service ?-•—.lbout
ten months.

By the Lord CuaN,•iu.or..---llid and• of the other
servants ever dine with her Royal flightless while luu
were with her ?--No.

Mr. BROUGHAM herr begged their Lordships would
he good enough to ask thr witness whether he was iu
the receipt of any pen,ion from her Majesty.
The Lord CHANCELLOR accordingly put the ques-
tion.

Dr. Holland answered, I have no pension.
The witness was then ()tared to withdraw.
CHARLES Esq. examined by Mr. DINMAN.
Do you generally resii!e at Rome ?—1 do.
Were you there in the summer of 117 was.
Had von then. the honour of seeing her Royal High-
ness the Princess of Wales called upon her Royal
Highness the day after her arrival.
Ile yon know how long her Royal Highness resided at
Route was there but 13 days, and therefore do nut
know.
You left there before her Royal Highness ?---I did.
Ilad you the honour of her 'loyal Highness's acquaint-
ance before that had.
Dining the 12 days that you were at Rome, were yon
repeatedly at her Royal Highness's house or hotel ?
I dined there most days.
With her Royal Highness ?---Yes.
Cats you inform the House if at that time, persons
of high rank visited her Royal Highness ?-31any.
Can you mention their 1141111•5
The Baroness Atteltione. who was appointed by
the Uosernment to attend ou her Royal highness, as
dame erhuanc er.

iVere there any other persons of rank appointed
to attend her !loyal Highness ":—The Duchess Sae-
charoni.

Was her Royal Highness attended by a guard of
honour always ?—Yes; and all other honours were
paid to her, such as a box, at the Theatre, &c. the
same as the other Royal personages, when resilient at
Rome.
When yon dined with her Royal Highness, do you
remember other persons of rank at the table 1-1 es,
I remember Lord Kilworth--the .Ibbe Taylor was a con-
stant guest.
Were there other persons of rank who Paid their re-
spects to the Princess :—Tbe individuals of rank came
to pay evening visits.
Was Rergamt at that time Chamberlain ?—He was.
Did he in this cliarsetec dine with her Royal High-
ness at table ?—lie did.
Have you often seen her Royal Highness and her
Chamterlain, Bergen'', in company together ?—Fre-
quently.
Did you ever see the smallest impropriety of conduct
between those individuals ?—Never.
Does that answer apply to your observations of their
conduct at Rome only, or when yon have had opportu-
aities of seeing them elsewhere ?—Perfectly. •
Did yon pay your respects at Pesaro in 1819?-0n.
my !Timm to Venice I called at a house near Pesaro.
How long did you remain there ?—Two days, her
Royal Highness was out when 1 called. bat she sent a
carriage with one of her equerries and 11r..W. Austin.
to desire that I would visit her that evening.
Did yon go ?—I did.
At what hour did you arrive?—Between seven and
eight in the evening.-1 remained to tappet and din
returned to the Inn.
Did roe pay your respects to her the followlag day
—Her Reyal Ilighnns sent a carriage with an marry
to desire that he should abew we every thin worth ssu-,
in, at Pesaro.
Did yeti dine there that eveniag ?—Yes, • .
Have Vow shies had the bottom, of siplog MOO-
Qusea_uf 1 . liaW her WWII NW 110.
'Hued at MduisChi . •
Sisk the minds ind the day d the uoistb if peed•
Ns?—Ft was in February, diet darks*. 'likes Oath!

.mo

Had she then a/11010011 the title and dignity of Wee I
of England k—Site had.
Ha I.IP two ladies of honour to attend her there:—
She hall not.
Had she any altar,' of honour in attendance at her
hotel ?--She had tiolir:
Nevertheless, did any persons of rank do themselves
the honour to pay their respects to her Maajesty ?—There
were as I heard. I saw their names down in a book.
Did you ever see any thing in the conduct of bre
Royal 'Highness towards Itergami M hich appeared to
you derogatory from the dignity of the English crown;
or which nag calculated to wound the moral fee!ings rt
the country?—Never.
Independent of that did you ever see any one thing
in her Majesty's conduct towards Brigand, either iti
r:•tte or public to which a just exception could h.:
t .ken ?

The ATTORNET-OENER.U. objected that the reneril
conduct of the parties could not be made rnatter of evi-
dence.

31r. DE:vactst said, that arse qnestion* were aeked
not loolcing to the parties thett:%elves, Imt
reference to the charges in the Bill. That Bill
charged her Majesty, with improper and unhecomin,
behaviour and lattefliarity with Ilergami, and he had
here a witness who had three distitset opportunities of
observing that conduct, and he maintained he Iva% jt:i-
tilled inputting questions to hlui nu the subject.
The LORD CUANCELLOK saw no objection :o
question.
The ATTORNEY-URN ERAL'I only objection to :lie flues-
tiou was as a leading question.
que,,tion repeatel-1 never slid.
!low many times did you dine with her 3lajesty at
Rome ?—On the first occasion, three or four times.
As many as three or four times ?—Quite as many.
Besides those whom yon have named, you letre state!
that other persons called on her Majesty at that time ynu
called ; can you enumerate their nasnes?—The
who were in attendance, and many other of the Romps
nobility. Many of the Cardinal's Ladies. I met Car-
dinal Gonsalvi on the stairs in her lajesty's hung e.
If there were many other persons their hrsi lei
those, you can enumerate some of them:—fler Met•
jesty generally saw company in the e%euirg, and I
dined with her.

When you say that many other persons eall•:J, J.
yon mean that you heard so, ur do you speak fro:n
your own personal knowledge': --nom any personal
knowledve, I sass there one evening, and I saw them
as I was goint;• past on others.
On the evening, or evenings on which you were
there, can you name any other person of ill+tine•ion
whom you saw, besides those you have meti:iunvl :•-•
I cannot.

Ili 1119 you paid a visit to her Royal Higlc:e.s at

Dial Bergansi sup with you and It..r Royal Hignness

at Pesaro ?L-He
And dine the next day ?—He
Can you mention the persons who dined at her
Royal Highness's table at Pesaro ?—There was Vas-
sali. Bergami, Madame Oldi, and William Austin, ant
two other persons with whom I was unacquainted.
Was Louis Bergami nie of those other persons:—
I cannot say he was. 1 am nut sure that 1 a:n a..-
qu.Cuted with his person.
Then the only occasions on which yan saw her
Roial Hip hness, were at Rome awl PesirJ ?—They
were. Reexamined by Mr. OLN max.
Had you the honor of being actin:tinted nitli her RUFAI
Highness before she left England ?s- I had.
Hy a Para.—Did you feel any objection to sit at title
with Rergami ?-1 cannot say I did.
When did you, leave Rome taste—ln April last.
fly Lord Isycarocrt..—ln Isl 7, when you were in the
habit of visitiur her Royal Highness at Rome, did you
we any English ladies who called at her house?—lt was
at a time when there were not many English at Ittnbe
I did not see any English ladies.
fly Lord M. 4 NMI:MR.—YOU have stated, that in In.o,
at Koine, her Royal Highness took the style and uignity
of Queen of England?
The Loan Illtaxcat.Lon. This (million has already
been stated.

Do you know that application had been made to the
Government of Rome for a passport for her Majesty
the Queen of England ?--I know that an application
was made to the British Consul.

Do you know whether application was mad.. to have
her Majesty designated as the Queen of England
know there was. .

By Mr. KIWI:011AM through the Lord Chancellor.-•-
How do you know this i—lier Majesty told me.
This must he struck oat.
By Lord F.ALIIocTII.•—When you dined and *upped
in company with the Countess oili, *ere you in-
troduced to het ?-1 was introduced to her the first
tinte.

What were her manners 2-•—They were unobtrusive
and natural.

.:

Did you consider them u those of an Italian lady ?•—•
I did not consider them otherwise.
Was the Italian abe stoke good,—pare Italian ?—She
yoke with the accent of Lombardy.
Yon did not think that indicative of vulgarity ?—All
Ipersons have it, who come from Lombardy.
Hy Lord Ltraeroot..—Was the Italian *hr spoke gre.
statically correct ?—1 am not sufficiently versed in dm 1 '
language to answer that question. .
Did you ever discover any thing incorrect to your 1' ' •
knowledge ?—No.
The witness then withdrew.
The name of the gentleman stated in another part
of our paper as haiing employed a person to di‘.
lAbote seditious hand bills, is Franklin. When called
'pm this morning, he did not appear at the Police-
Ace, Hew-street. A Ur. Williams, meetly passed
word yesterday for the appearance of Mr. (441)1111o,
the Majestrate, Mr. Baker, being satisfied. with that •
*al,. The charges brought against him by Mr..Pear-
eon ate of a most serious nature. Mr. P. is indefali-
gable in his endeavont to secure him. It Is said that
,eneett curious circumstances are connected with this
A strong rumor is *hat that a peesowage of die-
**Mos is likely to be rebooted to the Tower 'on a se-
ldom, charge of High Truism. Who the woolly, is • •
we damn pretend to point MO. Nor have we learnt
Vim and • where tkt *duct 1111 toritic4 the charge is
Istkieigi, is *Hedged to have beat mommitted.
Time following 'article- is from thd last
&matJavetsal. What eat .
stssairldeil it attipiord to Whigs to oblivion?—" A ' •
rszerptitto, *occurred at ChieheilitsP. v•lfltett Rio
... tti
.pimoil-dirough thattll, sts litt,11141;r091,
Mmritaneetll4o &oil •we *fret we cannot maim -. 3.:••
iboaiMidellieloyatioe of ; we shall, therefore, to wt.,
tlo osoillit of those triton it may concern, conoigu it to

;

- I. -.,

.:~ ::,

• .4-
•

• •r
•
". • L'

• .‘

. • r.

. r