The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-03-14 00:00:00

iNiftIierSMOOMMI

ever maillirovlltsladvd whit it. tilniteittee sincere,
a veneration for the Constitution of his catiatj—;
ZOibtiftitios that hall carried the natiloni4 the.;
stint storey pods* efts 'dewy, not te-feel Willed
that the laws were salideatly strong' to preserve it
sod the People who lived ender it. What secorky
had the People of itegised.for the fetertosgslost fro.
qeent ievesioes of their personal -freedom 3 'The
sintrineteat that was now made sibservient to tine
&betas of the Ministers would always present them.
selves. Seek a case of as they made est
was at all times in their power, because there never
was. and probably never wool" be, a period is which,
men ef profligate morals and ruined forteaeowieldt
not be foetid engaged in some desperate projects,
against the public tcanqoillity. When his Majesty's
Mioisterstad determined on manifesting their mark
of displeasure against the country, why had they
not the manliness to goat once to the extent of their
severity ? Why divide their system and do half
by anticipation and half by retrospection ? When
the Suspension Act was opposed on the ground of
possible abuse, the argument was, that the aggrieved
would have their remedy. When the abuse was al.
lead in Petitions on the table, the answer was a
Bill of Indemnity.—(Hear, hear!)—lt was thus
that Ministers kept their solemn pledges. It was by
expedients such as these the People were to be
mocked, and defrauded of the protection of the Con-
stitution: But it was even now recommended,though
the loyalty of the country had been and was un.
tainted, to persevere in the same vieilsnce, in other
words, in the same abases. Why, then, repeal the
Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act ?—There was
just as true a ground now for that severity as when it
was last Session adopted. Now that a dissolution
was approaching, it became the object of Ministers,
by mean endeavours and miserable subterfuges, to
bold themselves out to the timid and the Desillani•
moss as the protectors of the peace and property of
the country.—(flear, hear !)—Let Ministers not
deceive themselves. Public opinion in this country
bad passed its childhood and reached maturity; and to
that opinion, soundly and firmly expressed, he would
leave it, to appreciate the conduct of his Majesty's
Government.
The House then divided on the third reading of the
-• Bill—

I

Ayes 4 . . 82
hoes . . . tl
Majority . —59
A Message from the Lords informed the House
that their Lordships had agreed to several Bills.
Sir J. NEWPORT moved his amendment to the
end of the first clause. It ran as follows Pro-
vided always, that nothing in this Bill shall indem-
nify any person against whom any action or actions
have been, or shall be, brought for undue rigour in
apprehending, committing, imprisoning, or detain-
ing the persons aforesaid."
The clause was brought up and read a first time.
The ATTORNEY.GENERAL said, that this
amendment was altogether anneseuary. The Bill
did not indemuify persons who had been guilty of ex-
cessive wiener in apprehending or &tektite; 'mullei-
n !)
Mr. P. MOORE objected to the Bill. It indem-
nified, be said, all persons, and for every. enormity
they commiUed.
Mr. W. SMITH stated, that he would apply the
case of the Petitioner Orden to the clause now pro-
posed by his Right Honourable Friend (Sir John
Newport). He was aware that-it bad already called
forth she derision of • Right Honourable Gentlonsall
(Mr. Canning) ; but when he considered the age of
that man, seventy-four years, and the infirmities sti..
der which he laboured. he could not help thinking,
that to indulge in derision excited by such causes in%
not a very enviable display.—(Hear, hear 1)-11
pot the man's guilt or innocence wholly out of the
seestion. He did not care whether the infirmity of
the man had existed previously to his arrest. or was
-the ceosequence of his ill treatment, let them take
either alternative, and he would still contend, that it
.ogdess was in that -dreadful state of health before hi•
arrest, it man extreme of rigour to have subjected
bins to the heavy Ironing, which *as sore to aggra.
vale his agony ; and the man who inflicted it thus
onoecessarily ought to be punished. But if the dis-
hse was the result of the torture, no punishment
could be too severe.—Peor, -hear!]—Now the
question he wished to pet to Ms Honorable Friend
the Attorney-General was this—Could Nadir, the
person who so heavily ironed Ogden, plead the pre-
sent Art of Indemnity against any itadictment ? Au
answer in the negative from such an authority would
go a great way--[No, no ! from Ms Opposition],
although his- Honourable Friends were mistake., if
they Imagined be would accept that admission in pre.
foresee to the claese of tiis Right Honourable ;Mead.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the first point/est
consideration was, whether the clause was necessary
—if not, it ought to be rejected, for it was very dam.
proms to the public to put bees in the way of heat=
meets. The eminence of the necessity, or-noo-esist-
ence, Retold depend on the present state of the law—
end HAW, been laid down so clearly by his Hoe.
end Learned Friend (the Attorney-General). that it
.was impossible to doubt it. It had been asked, wise.
ther the defendant in an action, brought by 010.•
might plead the Indemnity Bill in bar ? He might;
but it would be a proper subject of consideration to
the Jery, how far the Act justified the facts proved
its ironingland so on—and if the facts were, as re-
pveseoted is this Petition, no Judge would charge in
Weer of the defendant. The facts of this case had
been taken for granted. The Act was not intended
to cogibi the enormities of jailers or others—it had
no inch tendency. The operation of it was narrow.
ed to four points-Ist, indemnifying for detaining ;
94, wising of arms; 3d, of papers; 4th, dispersing
untold& assemblies. The clause was quite ntteats:
eary,.and could not be adopted.
. Mt: W. SMITH said there was a difficulty, from
the natural construction of the words of the Act-
-66 for any act, matter, or thing done." The words
pripmed to be added could do tin harm, 'and might
der some good.—[Here Lord Castlereagh expressed
disetent.]---The
,qualificatioo made by the Noble
Lard It. did not understand—he woubl vote for the
closer.
;.Mr: B: BATHURST maintained that the .preeent
Bill was exactly similar to that of 1801, and epos
that occasion the best legal Authorities had deter-
sniued that it did Dot extend to elooorate Mailers, or

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ether 44* Aletepetees, trees their HOMO .
taproom:adios for escenke riper or enmity to p..
,ea its cestfieimisen am' t dudes the period braced by : .
Ala Hill. - i het, t. it,
Mr. LYTTELTON supported, at some kegths ef eldnitee Mild be.
.the proposed clause. U. felt It was necessary the , ter. ,Theligist Hoo..Geetleseas had Stiffened tads,
Public should,istepopected seism the construction ', opinion 4 Lord Ellerthorough, given in that Heine
which might Isetrisigker be pot epee the denies of this! when he was Attcreey•General.. He should like to
Bill. The ophilest of the Attorney.deneral, a hear that Right Hon. Gentleman take (tension, in,
lawyer, professedly paid by, and in the interest, of - pleading a cause in the Chart of King's hooch, la
the Crown, might not meet with the concorreoce of say, " My element, I know, is good, for your
Lord Elleuborough ; bet tree the present disposi. Lordship has esprened the :area opinion" •• IS
lion of Parliament; which seemed disposed to wake what volume of Eases Reports?" hlottojfanri
whatever was the.dictons of the opposite side of the Reports, bet in Colthetes Parliantenteri. Halbsks."
House, law, there appeared little region to doubt " Why, what have we to do with that?" would be
that any proposition coming from Ministers tumid the 'ldeate remark. lie denied that an unnecessary
be received with approbation, and *sectioned by a act might not nevertheless he done for a purpose.—
vote of' the House. There was, therefore, the greater Petting chains on an individual might not be mice,.
necessity for caution on the part of the friends of the airy for the purpose of detaining him. and yet uiight
Constitution in that House, when they reflected upon be don. for the purpose of detaining him. If the
the scandalous and iniquitous means resorted to for friends of the Bill were sincere in their declaration.
the purposes of propping up their ease—of which that it was intended to protect only that species of
means certainly the farce of the last appointment of a illegality whkh they' called meritorious—if they did
Committee of Enquiry (the Secret Committee) was, not wish to justify all illegality, howeversoperflunes,
beyond all doubt, the Innst scandalous and disgrace. they would feel the propriety of acquiescing in his
fel.—(llear!)—He concluded with stating his Wen. lion" and Learned Friend's suggestioo of inserting
lion to vote for the clause. • . the sjeste word " necessary."
Sir S. ROM! GLY said, the Noble Lord had laid Mr. WYNN, although he thought the clause pro;
great stress on the "decision," as he termed it, of posed by the Hon. flirt. objectionable, was nor aware
the Attorney-General. But, had there been my de- of any inconvenience.that would result from the in-
cision in a Court of !lactic, ? Here was a Bill, which trocluction into the Bill of the word "necessary" to
said that all actions brought against any persons, for qualify the 66 acts, mailers, and things done, corn.
or on account of any act, matter, or thing by them minded," &c.
done or commanded, &c. should not be maintainable; Sir JOHN NEWPORT then withdrew his amend.
and yet the House were now told that the Bill did wont.
not mean " any" act, but any " necessary" act.— Sir W. BURROUGHS wished to proms a clause
Why not then say so— pear, hear !) ?—He most to provide that indemnity should not be extended, or
most conscsenstiously say, that he tloi not think the construed to emend, to any matter or thing done or
Bill, as it stood at present, would admit of the con- tossed to be done-since the 26th January, 1817, if
struction which his lino. and Learned Friend too it should appear that it was done or caused to be
upon it. As to the observation of the Right 110.9. done malidesnly, or without any reasonable or pro.
Gent., that the present head of the law bad, in 18(11, liable cease. It was snarly the same as the clause
given an opinion that the Bill would riot cover acts proposed by his Hon. Friend, only it went somewhat
of unoecessary severity, the answer woe, that he was farther.
not she head of the law at that time. He had repeated. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that the
ly known Judges on Bench contradi•t the opinion Ileum had better reject the Bill altogether than ad-
which whet, Counsel, and possessed of fewer advise. sit this clam*, as k woold lead to the digelosite cf
sages of knona ledge, the,, bad advanced. Bat it all those transactions which' it was the object of the
seemed, according to the Right Hon. Gentleman, Bill to keep secret. ' ' - .
, .
that he proper opportunity for discussing these The clause was then pot and rejected. •' .
points would have been in the Committee; and so Sir W. BUR:IOMM nest moved an Amend•
because lion. Members were not present at any went in the preamble. He went through a'tecapitu. :
moment that Ministers required, they were to he lation of the various Indemnity Bills (six in nombers!
precluded front availing themselves of any subsequent which bad been passed since the Revolution; and ob.,
opportunity for remark ! Let she House consider served, that in lone of them, ;was there any prowl.
the hurry with which this Bill had
.bees pressed. sion in behalrOtivittiesies, against the persons who
The first reading on Monday, the second reeding on bad Woo .accosed. He.did not think there was any
Tuesday. the Committee yesterday ; and now, Fri- necessity for making such provision now, and moved ,
day, the third reading ! Tar question was not what an amendment accordingly.
ought to have been done with the Bill in any former Sir. F. FLOOD said it was esident,-.after what :
stage; but what ought to be done with it now. He babe-en done with regard io the other amendments
was desirous of bringing the sincerity of Ministers on prOposed,That nothing would satisfy the disc-twenties!
this subject to the test. He • ould, therefore, advise his pert Of the other. side of the House.—(hear! and
lion. Friend not to press his proposed elapse; sod as the laughter.)—Their only object was to make declems.
supporters of the Bill asserted that the acts for which tory speesbes against the OM, to please .the vulgar
it weal to give indemnity were only necessary acts, out of doors; they were addressed ad caplanduto
he would recommend tie insertion of the word unigos—(Loud laughter)—to cache the politic
66 necessary." mind against the Government. lie then complained
The SOLICITOR.GENERAL maintained that of an Opposition Paper, as it was called, misrepre-
as the Bill now stood, no unnecessary act of cruelty, seating a former speech of his, in which he was made
rigour, or severity, committed against a prisoner, to say, that the Duke of Wellington was a very pro.
could be justified under this Bill. For if unnecessary, per person to sit on the Secret Committee—
it, would not he for she purpose of apprehending sod ( Laughter)—wbesees he had said this of the Noble
detaining such prisoner. The word necessary was Secretary of State, and boasted of his two country.
therefore not requisite to be inserted, being in all men, one of whom had gloriously effected a peace,
such cases implied. Actions, therefore, would lie and the other as gloriously preserved it. Ireland
at law against persous thus unnecessarily using dower had been referred to by the Hon. Bid. who had
or serenity in their official capaoitv, and he there- stated s number of atrocious acts, as be called them,
fore could not admit there 'stated any necessity for which took place twenty years ago. and held them up
the Amendment. . to the esampte of dill country— (clear! and laugh
Mr BROUGHAM thought, that when the Home ter)—but Ireland had latterly given a lesson of trail-
saw 'Sete was a. complete a difference of opinion guiltily to England,
_whit!' it would have been well
between tne btu lien. -and Learned Geodes.. on had she followed.
the construction of the clause in question, ae ay. sad The gooks wee then pot, and negatived.
no—when they beard his lien. and Loomed Friend Sir J. NEWPORT moved to insert words in the
say, that he Conscientiously entertained no doubt that peraithie to mithothe the payment of any damages
ill* legal cows action of the clause was in ease way, out of the public Pm's', which may be given in any
and the Solieitor•General, backed by the Attorneys action brought against official persons for their eon.
General, that he conscientiously entertained no duct ender the Sitspension Art. He proceeded to de.
debt that it was in another, they would scarcely fend himself from the observations of the Hon.
leave the words of it in so vague and undefined a &reset, who had just sat down; and contended for
form. What was the Solicitor-General's argument ? theism/15mi of hie-amendment, on the precedent found
That there could be tor difference of opinion on the in Cases arising. stela the Droits of the Admiral's?,
clause. But there actually was a difference of opi. whereindunages and costs, against the Goiernment,
sion on it. And why not thee assert the expiation wets defrayed out of the Public Revenge.. •
tory trout recommended by his lion. and Learned The' ATTORNEY-GENERAL observed, that
Friend ? The epprehension of teatology and ler. the Bill was precisely intended to prevent such trials
plusage! How long bad Acts of Parliament bete so and discessione, as most take place. before a Jury
Coeds' in their construction ? When hail brevity could give g verdict of damages.—lffeirr, hear !)-
-ante the style of the Statutes? Welt it on the intro. It war utterly iiiplossiblS to' admit -the amendment,
election of the present Dill, that the love of without staking-the preamble and the Bill stoleprecision had seised the framers of it ? Let she i !Mien of jarring and nonentities! enactments.
Uesse °bows what expedients bad been needed Sir-J. -NEWPORT replied; that he was wwerii;'
pith to avoid tautology and surplusage in it. The pre+ and had stated, that some of the eifeetthent's orite.
ble stated that " divers persons had teaselieeosis Bill mast-se -altered. if the amondetent was received.
assembled, &c."—" to disturb the public pease," an The SOLICITOR-GENERAL etpfained.
ordinary man would have thought sufficient; but no Mr. W. SMITH said;the -Mite of the Ministers
.sma
1F66 to disturb the public peace and trassqeillity."— l was to protect those who • had prosecuted supposed
Again, " to mien terror in the minds of his Ms- offenders;- and if appeared to him, that :no Iwo'
jesty's loyal subjects," might have been supposed could ease', if a door were left open, thrtiogh Which
sufficiently intelligible; bet the framers of the Bill, the persons *h. bad been harshly 'tested inight'itt-
is their love of precision, expressed it—" to lain redress.
cause terror and intimidation." When an author The amendment was she. pet, and negatived with.'
once got into a certain style, he generally continued out a division. :- '
it. The Hos.% and Learned Gentleman's style, Sir. W. BURROUGHS Olen Moved is' auteadi,
es rather his penmanship (as Lord -Kenyon once meat, to Whoa/rem the advantsgtisof di Bill altp
smiled the conipeaitioa elan auctioneer, which be did persons except the Ministers of Slate; Miry eribtlf
met think deserved the appellation of " style") mini- (Mon, Megistrates. Meyers, and Constables. • ...
tested itself throughout the whole Bill. It was thr- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to this
dared in it to be- necessary that the inforstiatioo auttodment, es it seemed to be levelled as, persAts
which had bens obtained of traitoroes designs" shooed who had searched foc arms
Melia secret sad undisclosed."end*seditioos papers. The
It then spokes( House wooed we 'thi( it 'thigh' bepresetned they had
" melees, wits, indictments, and prosecedens," for acted under the warrant of a competent authority.
A° any alit, matter, or thing, done, commanded, or. The amendment was therrfnie unnecessary. .
directed, or advised, &c." Bat Mere it It was-then pet, loornegett•verl.
the Honourable and Learned Gentleman's Mr. 13ROUGHAII then yowled the introduction
lan of conciseness stopped, for after that no weed of the Surds " which 'sissy have been ,necessary," ac-
mot strictly or abadutely necessary most be allotted. cinding to the ateggetilltro of Sir Santini Romilly.
To men of cosmos understanding it. would opfwee, The Arrga N EY-G ENTERAL objected to those
that as se essay words had been introduced ieto Abe weeds bobs., ;introduced. because they were perfectly
Bill which were certainly not necessary, es weed, ancessary, end it wools! be throwing 'a doubt on the
the etapeassty of welch .was eves douln• IA alpfit vety pritscipiit-of law in bitter Act. of Parliansret.
without great difficulty, be admitted. Oeirsiegle Mr.TLERN EY, ;considering this BM a violation
word !It maid sot. cost mooch to eisgrossit.-.-i1 of all-lase, maintained that it was desirable Osle al.,
0,...1
It would be but a slight deviation from the dap . teratiou should be made its It. .. -

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