The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-07-03 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

two miles and s. half, he saw at an angle of the river two
ships at anchor. One of them an American ship of war
and the other was n British merchant vessel which she
bad captured within a few days. On perceiving these
vessels Mr. Ogilby immediately retreated behind a point
of land, and if he continued without any other informa-
tion he certainly would not have had the hardihood to
attempt their capture without some better force than a
small boat and a few men. lie saw a boat put off front
the ship to the shore which be overtook, and found in it
the gunner of the Sequin. From that person he learned
that the ship's crew were dispersed on various services,
and that at the moment she had not more than twenty
men on board. Os that information Mr. Ogilby boldly
determined to attempt to take the ship of war. He ac-
cordingly took himself the helm of his own boat, encou-
raged his men with promises of liberal reward, and
w ith the assistance of the tide in his favour, reached the
Iliequiu unperceived either by the people on shore or
those in the ship. Mr. Ogilby coining on board the ves-
sel, and the crew seeing an English officer darting among
them sword iu hand, supposing that he was backed by
a considerable force, ran below. The Captain hearing
the bustle cause on deck unarmed, and Mr. Ogilby im-
mediately made him his prisoner. The Captain, no
der the same influence as the men, and expecting that
Mr. °gilts), was fully supported, surrendered his ship.
Mr. ()trilby nest commanded him to order his men op
successively, and as they appeared on deck they were
handed over on hoard the British boat. In one quarter
of an hour the ship was captured. and her crew and pri-
soners on board the It, at. Mr. Ogilby remained on board
'-ith the Captain sod one wounded sailor only. He sent
the boat and prisoners to Bordeaux with instructions to
bring back sufficient aid to secure the prize. He re-
mained on board without any assistance within one
hundred yards of the French shore, and within a very
shot t distance of a putt .occupied by a detachment of
French cavalry. He remained in that mate for four
hours, with his life at the mercy of those on shore if the
slightest intimation of the facts reached them. After a lapse
of four hours the boat returned from Bordeaux with a sea-
cleat fpree, in whose hands Mr. Ogilby Left the ship and
proceeded to General Dalhousie, with the Captain of the
Requin. With that General he found Colonel Ponsonby
and other officers of well-known respectability, whose tes-
timony might be referred to. Mr. Ogilby stated in their
presence the facts of the capture which the Captain of the
Rennin confirmed. HI stated that his- was an American
ship; that the vessel near him was a British merchant vessel
Ms prise ; that his crew were absent when he was sur-
prised; that he yielded because he supposed Mr. Ogiihy
was supported, end he added a most material fact, that it
was his initiation to pet to sea early the next morning.—
These statement, were all confirmed by Colonel Pousouby
of the 19th Light Dragoons, by Major Arbuthnot, and by
blajorEllesby, within whose cognizance the facts officially
came. It might be sold, in answer to Mr. Ogilby'S claims
that his enterprise was an act of superfluous valour, and
that the vessel would have fallen into the bands of the Bei-
tisti the next day. On that point he was ready to abide the
• issue. On that very day. twenty-seven American ships es-
espeif ; the merchant ship captured by the American, also
readeoffithat eight, put to sea, and was never re-captured.
lair. Ogilby was entitled to compensation, even pursuant' to
the declaration of the Duke of Wellington. Besides the
British could not get possession of the vessels in the river
for ten days, according to the statement of Admiral Penrose.
There were two ways In which the capture might be coast-
dared as Mr. Ogilloy, being in the Commissariat, was consi-
dered'is a private individeal, the one as a droll of Admit
eiltY, the other as booty. He was ready to admit that the
sight to the captive was in the Crown, but the abstract right
of the King was regetated by certain circumstances. The
practice was, 1f the capture was considered as a droit, the
esp•or was entitled to one half, and in some cases to two-
yards, an 4 in others to nine-tenths of the prize. If it was
to be considered ender the head of booty—ln that particular
sense, in whit* the phrase of booty was . tide is the service,
they would dud In one of the orders in the Peninsula, that
sH kaggaie, &c. taken -from the enemy should be divided
among the persons present et the capture. Such was tbe
arrangement when a eonvoywas taken by.SirJohn Briggs's
brigade. There was also another ease to point, which oe-
eurrelon the same river. A detachment of the Germs&
Legion, captured shoat, with specie on board, and the vales
cf the boat. and specie was divided among them. There
ti as another ease precisely similar, which occurred at the
capture of the Isle of Bourbon. A Mr. Stone, a purser in
tie Nary, saw a French vessel in the roads. Re got his
men together, and took possession of the vessel, and one-
half the value was gives to the captors. He considered,
that by all olletal regulation*, from the precedent which he
Lad quoted, said from the justice of the ease Itself, Mr.
Gglbx was entitled to compensation. He concluded by mov-.
lc; that the pipers be referred to a Select Committee.
Colonel KING seconded the petition. Having served
n Ogilby is the Peninsula, during 1809, 1811,
and 1814. he was able to bear testimony to she plummet
merit of 1104 gentleman. From the nature of the ser-
vice In sylsicb be was engaged, his exertions were par
ticurarly useful to the Army, wbo often in the most try-
ing circnastances, acknowledged with gratitude his
zeal and attention to their wants. Testimonials without
t•-tuber could be produced to his high character, but it
rright be enough to name Generals Sir Willi; m Stewart,
and Sii lictuanno D'Urban, who spoke in the highest
terms of his general behaviour, and. warmly eulogized
'Us gallant conduct upon this occasion more particularly.
With sash retottnnendations then, he contended that
the House ought not to turn a deaf ear to the appeal of
the petitioner. It was sot ohe of those cases the me-
rits of which were dabious. Mr. Ogilby did not come
fhtwarri 'to claim ;enumeration for any visionary disco-
very—the quadrature of the circle—the longitude--or
perpetual motion.—(Hear.)—Neither was it a claim
formed upon a forged diploma of Royalty, such as that
cif_ the Princess Olive of Cumberland—(a laugb)—but
it wit the appeal of a meritorious
.public officer, claim-
ing ionmenvation for eminent services rendered to his
count". He had performed a most signal exploit in
diptut.tit k ship-from the enemy, and if he• was not
entitled tone whole of the prize, has certainly was to
a large part of it. Was it jest, he asked, to turn
such an officer adrift. titer having Made such sacrifices
in the public cause, and rendered himself unit for any
other mode of business T He was sure that the claim
would not meet with any opposition from this-Duke of
Wellingtoo. That Noblq Duke, whose fame owed so
much to the exertions of-the Army, bad too mach ja6
lice and nenerosity to withhold the mend of reward from
merit, With such proofs then be should leave the ease
in the hands of the Heise, concluding with two words
only, fiat justilia.:(Hrir.) •
The CHANCELIANtr of the EXCHEQUER mitr-
ed the Hon. Member wilco bad brae& leeward this
petition, as well as the geßatst Offiffit who bad borne
testimony to,the merits of Mr. Ogilby, that any oppo.
shims which he Should feel himself called epee to make
did not proceed, from as, indlspolitioa to aclusewledge
the ciente of that gentleman in quality of ColismissetT•
th whom,- on' the cos4cisay., he would, give the fullest
credit fur zeal analßat it appeared, tys, aim
that the general, merits of the .petitioner hichiothing
at all to de with tills Tale. • the questiOn was Sol typr
whether Ile bad been tetnneerated for his general ler-
alive, or whether Giverguseot bad refused fides eirpioy,
slams, which was set 'alleged, but Whethei. *sibs,
trade a particalint citrate.. 'hi yeas entitled,iiitlivide-•
ally to receive this ;preeteks df, the prier, NOW, be-
te.* entering apes the diseatiedis lift that q - it
was necessary Its take al rkipit irfliblatt .
respected with the iptaltilisteMe,Pattiteler '
(*edict. dirt•
when ha captured thli iliellit 'be leisinibe
of his proper dutfiartilalreedirl'q tsdfridWietki-ott .etthe'
ships which had
glitrojg
st thit 1144 '01,061Y isit teal*,
üßerdeoax, MOW iihtkihtt *best, "dila Mai

•

it most probable that if he had not eaptuted the core et*,
she would not have escaped. His own statement admit-
ted that she offered na resistance, and, indeed. it. aras
clear that the intention of the Captain teas eel to fights
bat to skulk away if he could without being perceivEd.
—Luckily be was perceived, and there was no little cre-
dit due to Mr. Ogilby certainly for the manner in which
he behaved, which was marked with great gallantry.—
Upon that point no difference of opinion existed, fat all
were willing to admit that he behaved spiritedly, and
carried his point by a coup-dc-main. But without de
tracting from the merits of this officer, it was not too roach
to say, that the enterprise was not practically so hazard-
ous as at first sight it appeared lobe. The fact was, that
the enemy were terrified out of their wits, and intended
no resistance. But that was not the ground upon which
lie (the Chancellor) at present opposed the petition; His
objection was this, that the petitioner had already re-
ceived as much prize money (torn the last war as lie was
entitled to claim. Mr. Ogilby's claim from the situation
which he held in the Commissariat, was equivalent to that
of a Major in the Army. Nos; all the booty which bad
been taken during the campaign was valued subsequently
by order of Government, in order that the share to which
all the portions of the Army were entitled might be paid
them in money. This valuation amounted to 800,0001.
which was voted by Parliament to be paid to the troops
in lieu of all booty whatever, which had. been taken dur-
ing the campaign. Of this Mr. Ogilby receired•Lis per-
tion, whatever that portion was. The only question thee
%as, whether or not the affair of the corvette was to be
considered a distinct transaction in itself. Amongst the
papers which bad been lately printed, there was one (No.'
17.) which appeared to him to be conclusive upon this
subject. This document was an estimate of the value of
the Reqttin, dated the 10th of June, and signed by the
petitioner and Major Eckersley, who were employed for
that purpose. The value set upon the corvette, including
guns, cordage, &c. was 18,00111. which was of course in
eluded in the 800,0001. the value of all the booty, as stated
before. Upon what grounds then the petitioner could
claim now for particulars, after having shared in the ge
natal booty, he was at a loss to conceive, for this estimate
it would be seen, was signed by his own hand. But it
was said to be the practice of the Atmy under the Duke
of Wellington to grant to individuals to the particular
booty which they themselves had taken: I n refutation of
this, he could produce the letter of the Duke to the peti-
tioner, which he had authority to state to the House.
—The letter was written in MO, and contained them
words:—
I cannot forward your views, as referring to the sums
voted by Parliament to the Army in general, and of
which you received a portion. I think that your claims
are sunk in those of the troops generally. I. deny that
you have any more claims than those derived to you from
your station in the Commissariat. I suppose you do not
undertake to say, that if there had not been 12,000 Bri-
tish troops in Bordeaux at the time, you would have suc-
ceeded in capturing this vessel. Besides what you did,
was part of your duty."

And as to what the petitioner sated of the practice of
the Army, the Duke wrote thus :
" But you say I was in the habit of allowing individo,
ads to retain whatever booty they themselves had taken.
There you are again mistaken, and I refer you to the ge.
neral orders of the Army to prove the contrary. lu tact
so far from suffering individuals to appropriate booty, I
more often shared it to the exclusion of the individual
captors; for I was unwillirg that the soldiers should be
diverted from their duty by the desire of plunder, whilst
I wished them to use their arms."
Here then was not only a refutation of alleged facts, but
a difference between the Noble Duke and the petitioner
upon Principle ; for the petitioner advanced that it-was
good to encourage enterprise, whilst the Duke of Welling-
ton, who was at least as good a judge, declared the prac-
tice to be subversive of military discipline: There was
also another letter from the Duke in referince to an opi.
nion which the petitioner alleged he (the Duke) had
once given, that he was entitled to 10,0001. That letter
was in these words :—" Bat another reason which you
urge is, that you heard it somewhere said that I had give.
an opinion respecting your claim at head-quarters at
Toulouse. I cannot answer for all I might have said, and
if the rumours you bad heard amounted only to my hair.
ing praised your gallantry, it was correct ; but I could
not have spoken in other terms than those of ridicule of
any claims which might be put forward by individuals
for the captnreof a ship." With regard to the certificate
of Col. Ponsonby which bad bees referred to, be (the
Chancellor) had a high respect for him, as a most excel-
lent officer and good man; but in a question of a past
of this kind, hie evidence was not conclusive. Lord Dal-
housie had also been referred to & but be would show by
a letter from bite, dated 29th Aogust, 1815, in answer to
Mr. Ogilby, that be considered this capture of the cor-
vette was included in the general prise-money of the
army. Upon these grounds, then, he did not think that
the House could listen to the petition without compro-
mising a principle, for if this petitioner's claim was ac-
ceded to, the House would have to decide upon those
of every officer employed during the war. It would
also tend to establish that practice which the Duke of
Wellington had said was destructive of the discipline of
the army. _ _ _

Mr. HUME observed, that tbe answer of the Right
Hon. Gait. t►as by no mesas satisfactory. No reply bad
been /rives to the instances cited by his Hon. Friend,
where individuals bad been allowed to retain their boot,.
There *ere ten or twelve instances of this kind. If this
statement were correct, of what avail was the letter of the
Duke of Wellington ? Surely, when other individuals
were left their booty out of the ordinary course, the p..
titioaer should not be deprived of his. I f, on the contrary,
there was no precedent of ant sorb conduct, the letter
was dies eoralusive. and the question was one between
the petitioner and the publie, as to the amount of com-
pensation which, under ►is peculiar circumstances, be was
entitled to claim.

The CH4NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
be understood the distinction to be, that where booty
was taken by individuals, It was not left with them, but
Su tbe cases of detachments the practice was different—
ia this cue, however, the petitioner had no claim, for be
had before received his portion'of the general booty.

Mr. HUME said that General 1116DonsId, who was an
individual, bad been showed to keep a bag of money
which he had found.
Vet. DAVIES said that if individeals were allowed to
keep what booty they captured; it was a direct encou-
ragement to asaraudisg. aed nothing would be more de-
structiro of the discipline of Oa ' army.
..
ser. BUXTON replied.. He insisted that the Right
l Ihit.oaiithnnas had ma oat dii6mitioner's case in ifilr
iwif. Tile' etitionir *err remfvetl more than 731. lts.
TAd. oat of the Army genifil. iiiie-Money. It coal 4 edt
his eilitictivi 41.-lit fur this 'paltry stun be would compound
a Alum call/IDOL It was wore tkia probable,'M Sited
oared before. that the reisel viatodlovi eicaPed Out of
ithe direr. The petition; eertainfraapposed iliM he bid
is claim to the corvette; for In-three weeks ifter the cap.
tuts he employed Mr. Peas,, an ettOrney,. 'whow d;posi-
-dim be (Hr. hi.).keld is Ms head, I t i Tibet her. Ile ilso
aid* actiala, , pta4er. aid actoolly lest the ?marl tii. the 1
Minvn,'Aivionietne. The Tanks of WelliioA' "al IWO
miteaAittati(itft4i time, • iie the* petitioner had *We tea:
1 iiiiktithlfti WftWai.biltedts w fin were present,te his Clain's.
OiyisiOlfiiig*--not that Cate at It lips! beekpist bg.h6
#
Ldp.. Siefabiefur A Meta (ili. Moo.) la iniittet to
tihiatistiti4ini thielfieirtig.q. (trot. otposife,V
ifiloor'4l6o - ' ttOilerYi Ale was line
arat oni fir
ti ' ~diiilii%iii WO ' .. iihetriiich 'ltoi-Ait a iih*

composted him. The Honourable Meibber concluded by
moving; that the whole matter should be referred to a
Committee.
The House then divided, when therepppeaved,
For referring the petition, 19; Against it, 40; Majoa
rity against the motion, 21.
Upon cur return to the gallery we found Mr. S. RICE
on his leg., appealing to the Right lion. tient, opposite,
that he wonti give precedence to his motion respecting
, the Chief Baron of Ireland.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his

statement of the financial situation of tie country was
too important to he deferred. He would promite,'llot-
ever, that it should be very short. _

A eonvtroation took place between Mr. Rice. Mr.
Home, Mr. R. Smith, Mr. itiaberly, end Mr. Canning,
which ended in Mr. Rice giving place to the Uhaneener,
of the Eichequer.
TBE BUDGET.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER meted
the Order of the Day for the House going into a Com-
mitteeof the whole House epost the Exchequer
The SPEAKER having left the Chair.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. rose to
make his annual statement of the financial relations of the
country. In every account, he said, be felt it incumbent
upon him to compress the observations which be had to
make into the narrowest possible compass. He was aware
bow much fatigue the House had lately•suffered hem
late sittings, and in which he individually had been ooi
small sharer. He should therefore make his statement
es short as possible, and proceed without further preface..
Having in that statement considered the coarse of tanta-
lum which his Majesty's Ministers were bound to par-
sue,and the means which they would find it their duty to
propose to Parliament to carry these measures into effect,
he did not feel it necessary to recapitulate the observa-
tions he then made. He then stated his view of the pro-
I 'table expenses of the year. He recollected having uses-
Nosed that they would be more limited than on previous',
years, both in reference to the Supply soil the means
IWhich Parliament would be called on to vote to meet it.
lie stated at the commencement of the Session, that ac-
cording to the best calculations he could make, the esti-1
mate which Parliament would be called oats vote, would
be about 16,1300,1)00/. but those who might take the trou-
ble of looking at the papers, will find that the Supply
voted has somewhat exceeded that sum. He would ex-'
plain to the House how this, exresi originated. It did not
arise in the Army, N tvy, Ordnance Estimates. It
arose under the head of miscellaneous, and other items,
which he had not in contemplation at the time he made
his statement, but which had been created since. One of
the voteawhich caused this excess, wee 60,0001. for Sta-
tionery. It was found necessary to caN upon Parliament
for this sum, in consequence of some new arrangements
which had been ineroducAl into the stationery depart•
went, and which ultimately would conduce to a large
economy in that department. it was formerly the prae-1
tice for each public department to find itself in stationery
ab libitum. This practice was now altered, and the va-
rious departments were limited to a particular sort and
quantity of stationery. Prom this system it was ex-1
pected that ultimately a great dintinotion would be made,
to the article of Stationery; and although the acted I
supply under that heed was increased in the generid eat-1
penditure, yet there could be ne doubt that a cairespond-
mg diminution would take place in that department. un-
der the head of eontingenties for the following year.—
No diihination could yet be expected, 'lonise the regu-
lation being only made this year, the various departments
were already supplied upon the old system. These was
another grant, under the head of Building, which be had
not contemplated when he made his statement—be meant
a grant of 4000/. towards completing Dualetry Har-
bour. Besides these, there was a further grant of 1.1.0001.
for assisting the emigration of the peasantry of Ireland
So Canada. These items swelled the amount of the esti-
mate beyond his first calculation. Notwithstanding this
excess it would be satisfactory to the House to hear, that
there was more than a corresponding excess in the Ways
and Means, He would now proceed to state the amount,
and then the details both of the Supply and the Ways
and Means for the present year. The total amount of the
Supply for the current year, including the heads of
Army. Navy, Ordnance, Miscellaneous, Exchequer Bills,
&c. amounted to 16,976,7431. The items of which this
aggregate sum is composed, an as follow t-s•
Army 21,332,124
Navy •
G sees wick Hospital 14,44,410
Ordnance
Miscellaneous • 1,732,183

15,876,743
. .
Interest on Exchequer Ins. I, I Op,ooo

£10,976,743
The Ways and Means by which Over nos were to be
met, were combined under the following items :

Annual Malt 111,000,000
Lottery 2,0,900
Repayment by Exchequer Bill Loan Commis-
sioners . 146,874
Nasal and Military Pensions.. 4,1300,090
To be paid by the East India Company on ac-
count of Half-pay, Sc. (antecedent years).... 410,000
Surplus Ways and Means 409,047
Surplus Consolidated Fund

17,363,9110
Supply
£409,177
Thus it would be seen from this statement, that there
was a considerable excess of Ways and Means above the
Supply. He it doe to the House to offer some nide-
natioa upo6 souse of those details. The East India halt
pay particularly demanded some explanation, and he
could not bat admit the candour and Weems with Welsh.
the East India Company acquiesced in this equitable
claim of the public; It was only fair that the Company
should take upon themselves the burden of liqiiidat ng
thit part of the half-pay whiCh was doe to the troops
who served within their territory. But he must confess
that it was so easy matter to determine how mach they
ought to pay, because every body must sea %Indio justice
they could not be celled on to give the half-pay to all the
troops who had been io their service, many of them hay-
ing been wounded, and others having entered in health
before they went to India. It was, therefore, agreed to
give the half-pay to those exclusively who bad rendered
the Company a aervloe in that country ; and upon this
principle an arrangement was entered upon, in his opted.
on, equally, lihrel,to the corps, and justice the public,
that the East India Company should pay an annual half
pay of 60.000/: In the present year, this earn appeared
amongst the Ways and Means.; but it was worth consi-
dering .bat next Session, if not deducted from the charge
for thg Aitny and Navy half-pay, it Would, at all **es,
be taken into the g I account in the same Way that
Old Stirersiere. The sum which now appeared Ode*
this head amongst the Ways and ma:Wank to
,90,11001: j bet the cause of this iscreake helve& the
60.0001. was, that the Company agreed to pay from Ma
fat : so that under ibis belittles* sow incleded the ink,-
pay for a year and a half. Amongst the Ways End Means
appeared.* surplus Consolidated Of 8,709,1001.. and
it °Odd not but afford him isitinire gratilkiden to he the
first Chancellor of the Exchequer who for ake time,
bad ,Irett enothied to lay before.the . Hope such au agree.
able statement e.ansi the surplus arose exceed measure
from t enamoured wpleb male *rept relative
is, Ibe racitit Pflifje rVilt Iku•trie' • te4ltin't t"
chute for lite Nra:iii'd tory pelt**. iiiraor.