The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-05-11 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Tricasuar, May 10.
The House having been occupied in ballotin.- for a
Committee to try the merits of the Petition, complain•
ing of an undue return of the Borough of Portsmouth,
the Gallery was not opened until half-past four.
General MONTGOMERY presented a Petition from
the Freeholders of Ayrshire, against the Scotch Jury
Bill.
Mr. ABEItCROMBIE said a few words in contra-
yentibn of the prayer of the Petition.
The LORD ADVOCATE supported the Petition,
and said that when the second reading of the Bill
came on, he would offer such reasons against it as be
thought would induce the House to reject it.
Sir R. FERGUSSON advocated the principle of the
8111, and argned the propriety of allowing prisoners
in Scotland the benefit of being tried by a Jury con-
stituted like an English one.
Mr. DE` MAN said a few words on the same side;
and Sir G. CLERK supported the Petition, which was
ordered to be printed.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. R. MARLIN said he had to call the attention
of the House to a matter connected with its character
and privileges. Ile had on the preceding evening
presented a Petition from the Stage Coach Proprietors
of London, praying that some measure might be
abspted for pnaishing, in a ettnintary manner, those
persons in their employment who by ill-treatment isr.
jutted and maimed their horses. This, said the tloa.
Umber, was a serious and grave matter, and vet a
idaDy paper had represented the very mention of it as
lsevlog convulsed the House with laughter. lie (Mr.
54.) bad spokes of a horse's eye being knocked oat,
rand this lamentable fact, which in such an Assembly
ought to excite any other feeling than that of merri-
userat. was said to convulse the House with laughter.
Much a statement was derogatory to the character of
the !louse. He would not detain the House longer by
tioninienting.upon it. The Report had appeared in
The. Timis newspaper of that moeniag, and it was his
intention to move that the Printer and Publisher Of
that paper be called to the Bar. He then gave in the
pairagTaph complained of, which was read by the
Clerk at the table as follows
4' Mr. R. MAR FIN rose for the purpose of calling
the attention of the House to a Petition which had
been put into his hands by several individua
and its ls of ca-
rital and respectability iu this metropolis
trinity. In the present state of the law it was much
to be lamented that horses of the ;nest valuable cha-
racter might have an eye knocked out (a langla), or
he irretrievably ruined for ever (a laugh), by grooms
or other servants, against whom, from their, statious
in life, no damages could be resoverred."
The ahows.puisage having been read, the Honest,
able Member added, that what eoneitiortsLhini that this
wis a thali• hitt, misrepresentation, both •as regarded
nim and :hat ass: mthly, wag, the: he hail read Al t!le

After a pause, au
we could not hear, seconded it.
Mr. TIERNEY observed, that undoubtedly the
Privileges of the Noose, and of every Ilmsoorable
Member, ought to be protected ; bet this wits ease
of so trifling a nature, that it did not deserve veiry Se-
rious attention. The word "a laugh," iosettei in a
parenthesis, appeared to apply to some particular ex-
pression, and not to the subject at that time before
the Huse,—(Hear, hear) 11. of this kind
here to become inbjeal tarnp*Pirlir time would
be occupied every day in listening to them. Ile
therefore trusted to the good nature of the lion. Mem-
ber for inducing him not to persevere with the mo-
tioa.—(Hear.)
Mr. R. MARTIN midis@ would yield to the Right
Honourable Oentlensin's suggestion; yet as to the
imputation of having convulsed the House with
laughter, he mast say that be was happy he had
an opportunity of 'hewing that he bad said nothing
to excite laughter, or provoke unseasonable merriment
in that (louse.
Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW stated it as his opinion,
that the House had not treated the subject with levity,
but agreed with the Right lion. Oentletnan that it was
not a matter which called for so important a proceeding
The Motion was then withdrawn.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a Petition from a class
of religions persons called Separatists, of the town
of Ennis, praying, as well as we could understand,
from the noise prevalent in the House, that they
might be allowed by law to make affirmation,in place
of taking an oath.
Ordered to lie on the Table.
Mr. THOMPSON presented a Petition from the'
Company of Dyers of the North side of the river,
praying that the Thames Wharfs' Bill might pass into
a law.—Ordered to lie on the Table.
The reduced List of Members appointed on the
Committee to try the Borough of Portsmouth Elec-
tion Petition was then brought up aid read.
BREAM OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. BENNET moved the Order of the Day for
calling T. Arrowsmith, Wm. Shackell, K. T. Weaver,
and Henry Cooper, to the Bar.
The SPEAKER directed the Serjeant at Arms to
inquire whether the aforesaid persons were in attend-
ance, and on being informed that they were, ordered
Thomas Arrowsmith to be called in.
-440 n Idr.- AIIROWSMITH appearing at the Bar,
he was examined as follows :
By the SPEAKER.—What is your name ?
Thomas Arrowsmith.
By Mr. BENNET.—Are you the proprietor of the
paper called the John Bell i—No.
How long have yen ceased to be the proprietor of
that paper?—Since the 10th of February last.
To whom did you give up the proprietorship ?—T.
Mr. Weaver.
What consideration did he give you for the pro-
prietorship —None.
Was there any engagement written or oral, by which
you were to receive a share in the profits to be derived
from the sale of the paper p—None whatever.
Vu you receive any of them now ?—Not any.
Do you receive the weekly proceeds?—Yes, generally.
Where do you live?—Answer not audible.
Do you keep a shop in Johnson's-court?—Yes.
Do you reside there ?-1 never did.
Is that the place in which the printing press of the
Julia Bell is set up ?--Yes.
Does Weaver give you any consideration for setting
up the press there?—Not any.
Is he not your journeyman printer ?-11e was, but he
is not now in that capacity.
Do vou not give him three guineas a week ?—Not

DOW.
Do von give him any thing.?—Nothing for the John
Bull, but something for printing.
Do you say you give him nothing for the John Ball?'
—Yes.
Doe% he receive any salary from you ?—lle receives
something for reading proofs and printing.
Is the John Bull included ?—No.
Are you in the habit of letting journeymen printer;
set up presse, in your printing shop ?—Not in my

shop.
Is it on your premises ?—There are two houses, one
for the John Bull.
Is that next door ?—Yes.
Who pays the rent?-1 pay the rest and Weaver
pars me.
What du you receive in the shape of rent from
Weaver ?—Nothing, because I am paid oat of the pro-
ceeds of the paper.
flow do the proceeds come into your hands ?_
Through the publisher.
Who is the publisher F—Wearer.
Do the proceeds come to you through the bands of
Weaver ?—Yes, certainly.
Do you mean all the proceeds ?---Not ail, there is
money for advertisements which passe* through tether

Mimic
Who pays the wages of the workmen i—Sonsetitnes I
I, somesisoes- my partner, and sometimes Mr. Wester.
Do not you geserally pay the wages?—No.
If aoy one state(' that you paid the wages ',merely,
would nut that person state what was untrue ?—I do

not for Joks Bull.
If any one told the House so,•wnuld he not say that
which is untrue Jo not pay the wages geasadly,
I sothetiates do.
If any one was to my that the wages were paid by
you generally, wonld it not be untrue ?—lt is mot the
fact ccrtain;y,

got up.
What has he noir ?—* hap t i 111010 yet.
What induced yI. girt u *parr )-04 did son
find it very profitable, and could not continue W reall•
the proofs.
By Mr. SMlTll.—nra VII. "Tr native any mosey
testi Weaver for the pftierietdrabip f—Noog.
Was there po agreomedt betweeq you that yess We
to have a Seas of money for the profits, at a (Mace time ?
—No.
Whose are the types ?—They are oars.
What allowance does Weaver make you for the use of
them 2—.Aoseree not audible.
if the receipts exceed the etrpendlture, Is Wetter to
have the benefit of them 2—Yes.
And if theexpenditure swells the receipts, who bears
the loss ?—The loss falls upon we.
By Lord NCGENT.—Is there eny agreement, orpl or
written, between you and Weaver, as to the considera-
tion ?—There was an engageMent.
What were the terms:—Weaver was to become pro-
prietor ; but we had no idea of the paper coming to any
number, we thought we aboeld lose by it in the end. •
There was then no consideratiou ?—Not any.
IVas there not a prosecution instituted against tha
Joins Butt ?—Y es
How long after that prosecution was commenced did
you give up the proprietorship ?--Shortly afterwards.
Hew long was it 2—About three weeks.
Was it a week, or three days ?—lt was more.
By Mr. SMITH.—What prevented you then fro n
laying down the paper altogether ?—Answer not al-
How came it that you made so strange an agreement
as you stated ?—We started the paper, anti risked the
eonsequences.
What induced you to mese into an agreement of tl at
sort, by which you could not gain, and might lose?—
Because if thepaper did nut succeed, it could be dropped.
Be M'r. C. 11 YNN.—llave you ever paid any thing La
Weaver on account of the profits ?—Xo.
You have paid him nothing on that acconnt?—Never.
Did you, in the oral agreement, reserve to yourself
the right of giving up the paper when you thought fit ?
—Yes, certainly.
Was it about the lOth of February you gave up the
Proprietorship ?—ThereahoutF.
Are you sure it was more than two months ago?—
yes.
Did Weaver continue to he our journeyman up W
the period of the aereensent ?—Yes.
By Mr. BENS ET.—Did you ever after exercise any
controul over the articles which went into the paper ?
—No. they were all left to Cooper.
Then, had Cooper the commitl over them ?—Yes.
Did you see tile article complained of in Johis
of Sunday last before it was printed ?—Not before it was
printed.
Is it usnal to keep the manuscripts of the articles
which go into the paper ?—No.
Is it the practice in your office not to keep them:—
It is.
Is that the practice in the offices of other London
papers ?—1 don't know.
Don't you know to the contrary ?—1 do not.
By Lord N COENT.--I ask you whetter in the
forenoon of yesterday, you ha'l any conversation with
Weaver relative to the order to attend here yesterday ?
Nothing more than that he told me he hail received
such an order.
About what time was that?—Between nine and ten
o'clock.
Were von alone with him at that time ?—1 rather
think Co. per was present.
Are you certain?—No not certain.
By Sir K. FERUUSSON.-IVhen did you first hear
that Weaver was to attend this House ?—About tees
o'clock yesterday.
Was the first time you beard of that about ten o'clock
yesterday ?—Yes, thereabouts.
Was there no further conversation took place at the
time ?—Nothing further passed on the subject.
Were von present in the House yesterday, or d:d
you bear the questions that were put to Mr. Weaver ?
was not here nor did I hear the questions.
Have yea communicated with Mr. IVeaver since bis
examinatioo yesterday ?—Of course, I could nut help
asking him respecting it.
The witness w.:s then ordered to withdraw, but not
to depart from the House.
On the motion of Mr. BENNET, Mr. Shackell was
then called to the Bar, and examined to the following

effect :
By the SPEAKER.—What is your name ?-1111-
liam Shackell.
By Mr. BENNET.—Are you the Proprietor of the
Paper called John Bed! f--Not now.
How long have you ceased to be so ?—Aboutlast Fe-
bruary. I believe it was the week after 1 had the ho-
nour of waiting on you.
What was the reason of your tiring up the Proprie-
torship ?—I candidly confess that the idea of a prose-
cu:ion was not pleasant.
OW Weaver make any compensation to you for your
gis jog up the Proprietorship ?—No. 1 did not ask
Is he to make you any compensation hereafter if the
profits should allow ?—No.
Then you surrendered this paper to Wearer with-
out receiving any renuinerstion at all ?—None at all.
What was the situation of Wearer when the propri-
etorship of the paper was transferred to him ?—lle
barl.been some time is my employment.
Was he then your printer ?—ife was my overseer;
What did you pay him?--Two paellas aweek.
Do you now pay bins that sum ?—i-Ite now recoires
three guineas a week.
What does he receive that for ?—Por the
'tidal** of the paper.
4hai papfr?—foAn
kind I On you pay WM' fbr strperinteedlng his own
• ?—lt is his

sartin-

kick is untrue :--t uo nos ?my --a-- e------ . •
sovietises do. paper ?.--It is his own.
If any one was to vay that the wages were paid by IYbat' it daily with Ake rest if the proceeds ?—.lfe
au generally, would it not be untrue ?—lt is n.st the bus •tbree guineas
Fevreek, mat ben 4be atorang are
he to h
act rertain;y. settled, isthe balanci.