The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-04-15 00:00:00

TnR sTATEsmAx.

stances in which the offence hod been commitod. it the good order and civil government of the Settle.
was said not .to exceed WO& as to nontinfl.talue, ..ments of the United Company trading to India, at
11011111; OF LORDS, Aram 14. one year with another, but without ivecliktation of ;Fort William, and other places and settlements sub-
The farther consideration of the ease of. the Risibumh Peer- the mimbers, they could not tell whisthet fprgerlei , ordinate thereto."
llir. which stood for this day, was adiourned till Thursday. .
to a Committee of Privifeges, their Lordships proceeded to , were committed in. nine instances oti. lood,-eicht .oii. The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE disapproy.
the ceasideration of the claims of Archibald Borthwick, Esq. jii 1000 instances of ti. each. He had, swehieeti‘n :ed of the motion, as embracing too wide and exteii.
to the Barony of Uttrthwick. Counsel were heard, and notch I to. amend
.. his motion as suggested, by calling foi. a sire a scope, and requiring a much greater length of
documestary es ideate.- adduced. To proceed again on Thurs-
distinction of the notes under and above 51. • and as ' time than the Noble Earl seemed aware of,• to collect
daV.9 • i
to the objection of, theAobkhEaris. that to
.pitiklish tendPrOare document% so voltitninous and extensive.
The House then resume", and after
_pray* were read, it was ,
different from what. he understood to
ordered,ou the motion of the Earl of Bt.7UKlNfill t NI SILLB Ph- / .
?make
,the tiesctipti.6n of. notes viOulu. be injorions, 'he , it was very
that the fourth Report of the •Co.ninittee appointed to
tato the anairrof the East India Company, should he lbw be. ! thought it cold not "really be kieheynd that the prac.. have been the object of the Noble Earl a few days
fore the Dowse. . I
aw...4;1 up a titioners in forgery wanted any infortnotio.n, through ! ago. To a proposition, as he then conceived it he
that view.hed prep' a'red
Mr. INtna, acco•npanied by several Ilmberc,
• iheitseel fn
oawto motionsubonl tthoe suutobj ect,,
consideration• w hic h he
of
feggtehdo
Alm's*. from the Commons, requesting :tensile's-nee with their the medium of that Rouse.
.. Onogreat,ottleetShould had no objection, awl in
Lnewilps. en the subject of their :amendments to the Liseel—Wthe'diffiiiiutieti OT OpPortunities for the commis.
it nide pill.
The ldeisurthelng communicated to their Lon's:tips, it 19934 . sion of the offence alluded, to, as far as possible, for _
Ordered, that th,- desired cJiiterenee be pmently held in the it made one's blood run cold to read the acts in the house:—lt was for laying before their Lordships
Painted Camber: Papers of the numbers brought. to
.trial on such . Copies of such Rules and Regulations as bad been
. ...in *souse of • few minutes. :Qr. Quanne, Acting Usher ,
, charges, and seat away with verdicts of Guilty— ' made in pursuance of certain Acts of his Majesty,
• ? with respect to Europeans not in the service of the
al` the Black Rod, informed their Lordships that a Deputation
froot the Conunans were waiting for the appeintettcanfernice : Ikath 1 .
*kb their Lordships. Accordingly, the Earls of Sandwich, :
Oterbury,. Harcourt, and Liverpool, the Bishop of Oxford, . ,reply, contended Company,resorting to, or resident
The Earl of LIVERPOOL, in
lards Napier and Aiden, were nominated to manage the con- that every useful purpose would be answered from settlements in India. This would folly go to what
*fence un the part of their Lordships, and thcylorthwith pro- the Accounts already ordered. He was ' far from n the views adverted tot he conceived to be the ob.:
eroded to hold the conferenee_
withhol
Oa drir return, the Earl Or SANDWICHmad a report 'of ding any information, really useful or neces.ijects with respect to European residents in the Com.
the contemner at the table, n hit+ was •ordcreet to be tatcn into
,nary; the real question to be considered was, w he. patty's territories in India.
coesideratiso to-morrow.
I Cher the evil complained of was progressively in- • The Earl of LAUDERDALE contended, that neTRADETADF. TRADE TO INDIA.
The Duke of NORFOLK presented a PetitiOn such would creasing or not, and that would fully appear by the difficulties obtain in the procuration of
Accounts jest ordered to be laid before thellouse. the documents he moved for, a; they were, under an
from the Master and Wardens of the Corporate
The Earl of LAUDERDALE contended that the Act of Parliament, to be transmitted to the East
Town of Sheffield, and certain Merchants, Manu-1
specification called for by his Noble Friend, was ne.! India House periodically. It was essential that those
facturers, and others of the said Town and District, :
cessary to ellicidate that part of a very important ! who may be authorised to trade to India; should
pro ring to be admitted to a particiPation of the '
Trade to. India. The Petition being read, was or. subject.. The Noble Secretary seemed to have forgot know the nature and extent of these regulations,With.
dered to lie on the table. Oar which hit''Gr'ace, per.' that before'l7o7, notes of 11. and 21. were unknown . out-which the nature and value of what they may ac.
suant to what lie had stated on a former evening,
,in the conutry. The forgeries were said to he chiefly quire in the way of permision, would .be unknown
rose to enquire of Ministers respecting their inters.
for those low sums, and it was proper they should to them ; these were a Ipecies of law in. Indiarfram.
tions as to the room! of.the East India Company's
know how far the evil arose from that system which ' ed under the authority of an. Act, aed which were

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

Charter, and as to their object in. the pending pro-
ceedings; Whether they intended to continue the
monopoly--whether to diminish it, or to do it away
totally ? The period was now arrived, and the cir-
cumstances of the case such, when applications were
Made from various poets of the country, and which
applications would he still followed up by others,
that the intentions and objects of his Nlajeity's Go.
?eminent on this important subjeq4 ought to be
known. -
The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE observed,
that the state of the tiegociations between Govern-
ment and the, Court of Directors was such, as,pre- 1
eluded him at present from giving a direct answer to
the queries of the noble Duke.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM said a few words' appa-
rently -to the purport of what had fallen from the!
Noble Duke.
Earl GREY said, he concurred with his Noble
Friend that the time was now arrived in which the
intentions of Government on a topic of immense
magnitude ought to be known. The country had
generally expressed its anxiety on the subject, and
What was now required, it had at least a right to
expect. They were told that the state of the nego.
ciations were such, that a direct answer could not be
given. What degree of diligence had been used,
*hen, at this season of the year, the middle of April,
no further progress was made, may easily be judged. !
By what the Noble Lord, at the head of the depart-
ment in question, said, it would appear to him that
Iklitalers had not yet made up their minds on the.'
subject. By what had fallen from the late President
of the Board of Controul, they were led to expect
the affair would be finally arranged this Session.—
The
Charter would not expire till 1814, and be was
adverse to the adoption of any premature or hasty
senores. As Ministers were unable to bring the;
-subject forward at such a period of the Session as to
atford time for a full and complete discussion of its
merits, he thought it would be decidedly preferable .
Lot to press it fur the present, but to postpone the ,
consideration of a question of such great national im-
portance until the next Session of Parliament.
BANK OF ENGLAND.
Earl GREY rose to bring forward the motion re- •
;peeling which he had recently given notice. It
would go, he observed, first, for an account of the
total value of the notes refused in payinent at the Bank
since the year 1;97, on the ground of 'their being I
forged, distin:uishing the value of those in each re.
spective year since that period.. To this, he believed,
no objection would be made. Hut the information ;
he most wished for, and without which the anterior
would be nugatory, was an account of the number
of the notes so presented : this he thought more
es:iccially-necessary, with a view to the discussion of
the measure which would, 'ore long, come before
that House. Such a statement alone, he said, would ,
enable them to form a jud.:Lmer,t how far individuals •i
were likely to suffer in that way under the system,
which that measure went to extend and to continue.
'I he NolAe Earl then moved for an Account of the'
value of the ii&e.; as above, from the year 1797 to
the latest period the same could be made up, distin- •
guishing the nominal vaPlte of the notes so. presented
in each sear, which was forthwith agreed to by
*etc. Ilbra,e.

the exyected bill Went to enforce and to continue.
Earl STANHOPE hoped their Lordships would
permit him to say a few words respecting the opinions
just declared upon a very important subject. Ile be-
lieved it to be fact, that the greater proportion or the
-value of the forgeries had been in the small
Ile did not approve of the motion as then worded, it
was liable to an Objection urged by the Noble Secre-
lary as to its tending to mislead. He saw no reason,
i however, why his Noble Friend should. not call for
&specification of all the classes 'of notes in which for.
genies were committed, It was a topic to which he
believed he had given ten times the attention given to
lit by all the Members of Parliament put together.—
He had suggested a mode which would go. to prevent
forgeries at home ; but what was greatly to be feared
was the effects of foreign forgery, when these notes
should be put on a different footing ; the forgeries
would be extensive and systematical.-They recollect-
ed the forgeries of the Assignats. With respect to the
Bill in its progress to that House, the great object with
respect to it,,and the subject of which it formed a part,
was that the holder of the note should receive that
which its value was worth. Every thing that could,
should be done to prevent forgery and its conse-
quences ; and also to resider the rperson who held a
note, certale.. he should receive that which was its
: value.—[lleac, Isiarl—ln that view, the fullest in-
, formation should be afforded. One great means
which led to the facility of forgery, was the wretched
style of ekecnting notes ; and it had been said to him,
jocosely Tie doubt, that they ought not to hang those
who forged,.but the Bank Directors for making the
notes so liable to be forged.—[A general laugh.]
Earl GREY amended iris motion; in the way sug-
gested by his Noble Friend; and the question being
put thereon, their Lordships divided—
For the Motion
Against it
Majority —ls
' On our re-admission to the House, the Clerk was
reading a Petition presented by one of their-Lord-
ships, from (as we could collect) the Potteries in
Staffordshire, against the Orders in COuncil.—Or-
dered to lie on the table.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE snored, that there
be laid before the House a Statement of the period
at v.hich the Directors of the Bank of England gave
up indemnifying the Holders of Forged Notes.
On this proposition some conversation took place.
Lord HOLLAND expressed his surprise that Mi-
nisters seemed unwilling to acquiesce in propositions
of the kind until they had consulted the Bank Di-
rectors. The motion be thought necessary ; and ad-
verted to the period, as long subsequent to the're-
striction of the Bank. He noticed the circumstance
of a forged note he had brought some years after that
period, and which he had communicated to the Bank
as connected with a system of forgery, said to be
then going on. lie was offered indemnification.—
Rut he could not avoid observing, that it was to the
disgrace of the country, that the example was set,
not by individuals; bat by the Government itself,
and it was to the shame of the country, that the
practice should be approved in the Tribunals, on the
ground of its being against the enemy of the country.
The Eirl of LIVERPOOL said, that with • re-
sped to any specific probeeding of the Government

ilk Lordship then moved for the production of an,
Account of the number of Notes so presented and •
refused. .
On the question, .
the Earl of LIVERPOOL obsiiiecfs that to the!
first parCorthe Noble Earl's proposition, he thought,
wider the present circumstances, and with reference
to the Bill in its progress is that 'IOUs., no rational
objection could he made. It, besides, would furnish !
all the tmessary or useful information desired, bias- I
much as the specification` of the value in eacb year
would stew the progress as well as the extent of the ;
evil. With regard to that under consideration, be
tmainly- entertained objections ; It would also, on
the Noble Earl's own ground, afford bot little fur-
ther information, except a 4istincdon was made be-
tween the notes below and above the sum of 'Lye.
pounds. One strong, objection was that it would
afford information oo to what -description of notes.
forgeries 'may bra the more easily made • every metal
purpose,wou :be answered by a specification of the
actual nom and' total value of the.notes refused in
each year ;s. what was now propose(' appeared to
bite at best to be-unnecessary and superfluous.
Earl GRIN thengbt. by what fell .fielpfAe Noble
Secretary Of State, he most hove niisaPpreheeded-the
object of his motion : it west to .ebow what he al-
lowed to be. proper, the outset of the evil, and
which could pot be satiefactorily aidit* without as
account, of *ember of instswi iii width the .vl&
had taken ; k whit Wei.ito the alootwit, as
4 the dattiNkfit -elte oft ,11444411 Plicitt* WA-

. . -
of the country Ott the timeadverted to by the Noble ! Lord MILTON, on presenting a Petition from the Clothiers
of the West Riding of Yorkshire, stated that the object of it
Baron, he certainly could not speak frets any per- I wai to complain a&ainst the Orders in Cohncil. The petitioners
Sonia knowledge; but they all knew, that whin the had stated, that if-such a
_measure was: Er
oc-e:4 thoY.l:o7ld,
CircuMitatices hatifieels expressly adforred• to in that ! ouiairtbrbe "bniitlea' itilydlave Prbeatms
pealed to citashmithin„ tt doe
irons:l—it was stepngly denied and disclaimed by a i Petition gdid not e nece
mu' tlain necruavagunt 'grievances,lout of
Noble Baron tweAwlieve Lord Grenviiie)wthheondhenoiledd. 1 etbveAlfltsr,Tthislty
Nw.Nerne soberly
m and seriously felt.-Ordered. to lie on
ing a high situation .in the Government,
respect ! land Tax warmed o
that such a fact had ever taken phice. With nrlhe
si.fo.reralan
eoaaecouhtbilee-ionf theuriandamoanilt
%soraittl.sie.
to the idea held by the Yale Baron, of his prone- I Tho motion was, be hated, peer:Macy
his,
onesb(Latet.tdettO he
. vbir.norght f
encr nurtmard
_lv an lion. yr rued of h 1
ness to consult. those whose interests were so intim&
elections, . ilie n"
diately concerned, he had to state, he.felt it incum- I attoowbkiehingintocethnevenLaielodicThe
*lux asgareati.Airigdacrocascargoodbyvotste:
bent to him, not only in the case of the Bank :of', !ilt Ylalrty e_st
to • endeavour to weer England,..bnt •of city other Public.l3ody, whose in. ii geigaisasrti:notnanigN Eric
or
tneunftvetftur".se:vecierdaif.?athepersiairll2atiianguntihso
,thwehrkirh..l
teresti were deeply implicated,
I w:hir Bittl\iG ri no'ticc• that be sr' ottitr Aeolis ;NI FrWaYN
learn, %Wiles imppriant objections were entertained : n„t ior ley • IA:: n.
end where those were communicated, he always ea-
COLONEL BallicllON'S. APPOINTMENT. ~
cccised. his
/SlFljUdguseril hair far
such
constituted
a - Mr. C. W. WYNNE rose. to 'make his promised
fit groelni fa; -,,,ectifei or aigument if Parliamentary j motion on this subject. When he first gave this no- i
discouion., .. , ' i tics; he observed, ho did not .think it .ToUld travel
and As,/ been necessary.for-hinf to go into that detill with ,
I.ord 11 014. AND epoke in explanation ;
a feir. worse /rota," -
the
hietiett•
...wits I
nwheihrh.jhe now found rte must trouble the douse.--
The Eel of, LAUDERDALE, t
seppoied tliat.this motion viould have-been
withdrawn. • . . . • i acceded to of course; bet he understood .it was to
AFFAIRS OF INDIA.
" - I.be ePPeled ;on wrest grounds he was iit-w loss to
' cooes • otuortain .Constnaniattions between, the conjecture: for where assail/wake was created, urW
marquis Wellesley and other GewernO9.,andelfieers der w nest : name nod unknown in . tlt Conmitu:
a rke.Coropeoy in..ledill, tad tbogetere of-'lXret. tibniti history oetbe•catintry4 •a, precedent of the
ton, Seers, onitio motions of the Earl-of 1,41111!Elt.; ' alieeSeeement ut *wok -o.ol4t.itpt be prolkieks he
DALE, ohbiresirte be laid haw . the Hesse. • a i deetee4o4. to be 4 'ko iiicilipoidate-dvty of Perna--
.
then, in -Plivsoo"4 0-111Stioses"" A flinilliv elm. 1/080t t, myelin: Into 40 moan; 04 aatertain. what
ings.-susVed;-.-c 'Mit there ile isibl.lief," the liesree's . ears
_L,
_ki,.
_lt were attacked-so.N.kr InderAlsat they might
Co* 4
. 0 &Oft Abliena rtlift„:Blllllatkaaa * "alle: rhatka*.iltli beitailkft k shoaktiWaraite'
. 4.. . •. . , • .
• . . . .
- - -

• '

ed. Ile Could recollect no instance of such
tion having been refused to the !louse, or of
being allowed to know the grounds on wh7
office proceeded. Now all that they knc
subject of the present appointment, was
Gazelle, which announced that Cdonel
VITAS appointed Secretary to the l'rince Reg.
from the Right lion. Cenileman opposite,
informed them that. his duties hose of
Secretary. Ile had heard it. whispered a
table. Ilia: the salary iinnexed to the ()Clic •
.staled in the Mittnt.:•s cf the Tfeasui.v.
was another ohjertion to the olhee, 2s thi
it were allowed at all) at least to be a re(
smiption of it ; all- they
the matter was, that it was like that of Coli
lor. lie would like to know w hat a prig:
tary was whether a Cabinet Minister, of
amanuensis? Was he to advise aml Couu•el ttt
ur to act, simply as an amanuensis In t'itli(
-saw no net:lLl:or the appointment. There
former times and occasions when it appeal
necessary—but yet no private ";ocretiti'
.ever created.. In the reign
.of William
ivstance, who personally scrutinited all
siness of the Sate, lie had no private Se(
George I. *he did not. tituTicrStand (Fa
had no such secretary. And his Present
whose attention to the details of business,
nitely exceeded that of any former Mon;
who, from the period of the American war
had performed not only the duties of On
bat of Commander in Chief, signing all come
had nefer thought of such an officer, till at
came to Colonel Tal lor's appointment,
•

. .
deeply connected with the trade to and in that coml. quench, of the unfortunate raa—lasly whiCh
try ; and the information his motion went to convey, his Majesty's sight: This was the only is
was, in his opinion, essentially necessary to the un- ! record. Good God ! was there any reseml
derstanding. the subject iu some of its most import- , tween the two cases ? Colonel Taylor was ,
ant bearings. ; because his Majesty was unable to read th
The Earls of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE and. LAC- ' nications made to him ; and even here, '
DERDALE spoke respectively in explanation ; and'; nion, it week! have been better to have
the latter suggested the propriety Of appointing a new responsible Minister on the occasion,
Committee to inspect the Books, and to report that excited a strong feeling throughout the col
these rules and regulations were. • 1 But it was the duty of the Homejiecretar
Lord Viscount MELVILLE supported the ohjec- ! the King's pleasure en these comtnunit
tions of the Noble President of the Board of Con. [llear!]—He was aware a difficulty preci
troul, and strongly disapproved of the last expedi- in the present instance; as, from the li)
ent ; from such a process no serviceable information, ; tipathy to London, and consequent
I
Iso extensive and voluminous were the documents, at Windsor, it was impossible for the
could be expected not only in the present, but for for the Home Department to take his
several Sessions of Parliament. , daily, and execute the other duties of
The Earl of -LAUDERDALE observed, -that the lice. The practice heretofore had been st
information in question was directed to be communi- had described, and he %% ished to know what
cared annually, under •an Act of which the Noble son there was for the introduction of a t
Viscount's father was the author: • now ? The Right Hon. Gentleman opposit
After some further discussion, in which Earl Grey arose. from the great increase and muttiplici
shortly supported the arguments urged by his Noble siness for the Crown to transact. For It!
Friend ; and the Pearl of Lauderdale and Lord Vis- could not see this; and especially when LI
count Melville repeatedly spoke iu explanation, ; ed no disability or infirmity in the person
The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that the ;on the Royal Power. In what did this km
real question before the House, was, whether a me- gist ? in tile signature of military commissi,
lion should be adopted which would answer every : might be remedied by the Crown signieg
object of that originally proposed, and was not IM- warrant, empowering the Commander in
ble to any of its objections? The second, he cons sign the commissions of so many nemeses w
tended, would produce every information necessary ,in The qtrecile on tl.at ta.,ht. Thus one
for the purpose ; it would put the House in posses- . would be substituted for many ; and tie
Mom of all the roles and regulations made, er now , had formerly not been- adopted. when pro;
in force in the Company's territories, respecting all could-see no inconveniency that would erist
Europeans not actually in their service; and it would : and especially as the Crown was resident ia
become a question; if a boon were meant to be held , Ile was desirous of being informed, if thisam
out respecting a permission to trade, how far. such . was to he like that of Colonel Taylor, and
rules and regulations ought to subsist. .The motion communications of the Cabinet Ministers
would bring before the House,. under what restric- • passniongli Cdlonet- M'Malton to the It
Lions of law and law and policy, Europeans arc 'al- [Hear, I:earn-11f so, it behoved the lime
lowed te reside in, and carry on their trade in India. a stop to the matter at once.—[lfear!]—Suci
The question being put, the motion of the Earl of nications ought only to be permitted to piss+
Lauderdale was negatived, and that of the Earl. of, responsible Slinister.[lkar,hear!fromthe.if
Buckinghamshire, carried without a division. •-t Bench.}.—What was the meaning of that "
The Bills upon the table were forwarded in tboir Was he to be told that there was a diffei
respective stages. ' ,.. 1 tween Col.,lll‘Mahon and Col. Taylor, her
The. Innkeeper/5 Allowances Bill, and a few the former was a Privy Councillor. This '
others, were brought up from the commons, and ' peered one of the greatest objections to his .
read a first time. isoeht.—[Hear!]-1t ought to he conOtted
Adjourned till to-morrow. amaneeusis, sworn to read communications '
• — to the Sovereige, and .to write• kW&
s HOUSE OF COMMONS. I was dictated ter him, without giving his
Dlr. POLE CAREW moved for leave to.briog ip a Bill to Rut how could a Privy Councillor de this et
facilitate and promote the dutieS of Surveyors of -Eight% a3s and
m.itl i his oath o ce .as it _sworn
Bridges, and to make farther regulations for the improvement
and preservation of, Reside. . • Crown 1---f ticar.ll—Ceukl he read any wren
Mr. D. GIDDY seconded the motion; which, after a few
words from
Sir CH A RLES BUR KELL, was agreed to. Bastion to the 'Crowe, without foeling it te
. ; duty to advise the Sovereign against it ?Sc
Lord LEV EspN GOWER presented a Petition from certain . he was bound to do by his oath—and was
Manufneturers, against the Orders M Council. . • desiraiiie that any Minister responsible
Mr. KEN RICK moved frir leave to bring in a Rill to ex- l,
plain and amend the General Wetmore Act.. Leave given. of the Crown, should have his advice
The .London Legal Quays 'Bill was read a third time, awl . to the. revision cf,any private' Secretary:
passed.
Mr. LYGON reported, that the Managers of the Confereere i Constitution of the country held it to be
with the lords, on the subject of their Amendment no the Local that there should be a channel for interim
Militia Bill. had given there:emus of the Common! fordisagrec-:
ing to that Amendment. terior communications between the ThrOnl
Air. ROSE moved for an Account or the Expence of the Bri- •:
Ministers, then lie would adtnitthat a. foci
fish Museum for the year 1811, and all rstirnate of the e %pence tary of State might be• allowed; to carry
for 1812, with an Account of the number .6f
_Per•mos admitted
from ISO 7 to 11112,-Ordered, ?be Paperinereafterwards pre-
be responsible to the •countl.v;.:lnit not su,
seated and laid on the sohle. - : pointment as the present. If the Ce,

thought it necessary that Generals should ni
vale reports to
,the Crown, and re tha
should, be obseried..conrerning them tow
other Ministers, then indeed such an app
might be.requisitcc—rficar !] Ii t was tit
high offices of the Household should EC hawk
not by the Ministers, but by the menial offi
attendants of the Sovereign, then lie would
ledge that this might be an improvement ;
then the office ought *to be defined and 111
responsible Minister, liable to impeachment
of offence. On these grounds he felt himse
to call for enquiry. It-was not that he wi
tend to popular clamour, which he despise]
as any man ; but he respected• public
which was the Support of that House, an,
en all occasions, to meet with the regard it
Public opinion called for an .ezplanation of
ject he had this night brought. before thern, ai
than all it became them at a inomett when
was acknowledged to be generally and severe!
She peopte, to, took into "all the expenses
watchful nod scrutinizing eye. All that the 11,
knew of the matter was thitr, that the same Gel
had lately-been appointed to another oh
had beau rocomniended•to be abolished' by
mittee on Sinecure- Places. Upon this ihe
had ititrfered,.and {tuk an end to the Plal
no sooner was it ended;than they find it new
coveralts absolutely necessary, schirli had I
thougbi Of before. Wise would the 'public
this, IsOS4bit.the. mesa Place was timid

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