The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-02-11 00:00:00

i
Allifjtel: it rioilliersatleia
1116411103415dat bin -
lidesseitts visa Mr. DotjailmodUift, R. iPe . .
..t- &Oita
-tea joir raleseir the.. offer.' it thus appears that .If 4 . Leastotd-Lord weeid :slate, aeo Weyer, that
Campbell adheres- to his "original Mi sad
ne. i
;lens t. man assy.tse eseinitted *se, witness, wlekbethees,
a . moist, thee, Odell, if ft were a fabrication, tt or: od - *hit la celled
.a food-deed for hia 44..
i would -.scarcely renters to do. .When silted I'deuce, igen I will anseree ins deddedly, by the
'hat he wished toiuive, lie made no. answer. Thiess , opinion of five emitiedt liwYers'in Edinburgh, which
comet the passage which the Learned Lord has read, -1 has been handed to ate. Their names I need net
and of whit* he has endeavoured to make so roach— mention here—but, if I did mention them, be-would
a passage which appears to mete be the most *manful admit that they were perfectly sattsfectoryi They
in the Whole proceeding. Mr. Drensmoud then said, .say, ' a person is disqualified as a witness if he is ad.
ahattif he(Caspbell)gove such infortnetion at would duced by the party who bas promited,keeweed.l—
the Lotd Advocate, he would tieithei be tried This is grounded on the authority of Erskine. ~ The
•Idiself, nor called open to act as a witness.--(Hear, wittiest, in the commencement, is asked, wheats'
bar !)—Here.the distinction is creedy drain be- he has received any thing for the evident. be kabekt
lemma being a witness, and giving information. Mr.' to give.? And, if he answer in the Jlifisteetiessissig
larweillsond first endeavoored to make bin a witness;, disqualified. The casepf Horse, mentioud toafiaw..s
bat, indlog that this is useless— be says, well, if nett,' p.' 416, is not correctly reportetl7-eed,ore de
.you give such information slime like, we will not not thlnklbe book itself a'reference of authritit4."--•
make a witness of you. Was it not clear, from this _(The Lard Advocate of Seethed and several other
statement, that they bad been tampering with a wit- Members !tomcatted for the names of those who had
efts ?—(Heir, hear!)-11r. Drummond begins by given this. opinion.)—." The opinion," said Mr.
*tering so inconsiderable reward—and be ends with Glint, " is sigeed by George Cranstooe, kart
so obscure hint of the danger to which Campbell Monerieffe, J.,,A. Mprray, H. Colhorti, and Aniiree
will be *tooted, if be does not give information.— RutherfOrd.—(Criet pf hear ! from both sides 411te
(dear, hear!)—lle tells him distiactly, bore are two House.)—The conclorion I come to is this—that
ihenefits which pliabilky of conduit will insure—you those who placed the 'lines. in the box, knew that
play procure • reward, and you may escape danger. becould not servethem—orthat if Isecoeld,it wagon)!
dompbell, in answer to this invitation, .says, • I by committing wilful and corrupt perjery.—(Hier!)
not know what itatoomillieo you want.'—Dram- We are told that MiKinley could not be convicted
Mood then abterved,s-11,... t will give you a day or without the aid of this witoestoe-and that the Learn.
two to coo-ider of k'—end he asked, ' DO yes ed Lord abandoned the tate, when he saw the tern
wish that I should ;me. back to yen P which the evidence had taken. This is the first thee I ever
proves a str•o:i; desire, on the part of Mr. Drugs. head it publicly asserted, tbat it wits allowable to
mond, to kee;) up a communication with Campbell, deal with witnesses in the way in which Campbell
for the purpose of procuring information. Ido not *us dealt with; and, unless Parliament state their
say that Campbell's testimony is sufficient, without feeling on the subject, there is not a petty Magistrate
further consideration, to convict Mr. Draipmond ; but irt.the country—there is not a trafficker in law—
tie assertions are so strong, that Ms. prenimand, there is not a pettyfogging Attorney, who will notl
'asbe is deeply connected:wish the case, ought not to tliiiik himself iustified in resorting to such praisices."
getter the*, in jetties to' himself, to plc!, uncontra. —1 1/eac, hear t]
dieted.—(Near, hear rf—At length, .
Campbell in. "'sar A, LOIA,WHOUN defended the law as lei*
footed hfr. Drummond that he was arasous to go to ' ;loin by the Lord Adtrucate, which, be was cam.
Proms. Mr. Drammond t:,id him the amiss of winced, would have. much greater weight with the
tieing thither would be•sapplied to him, if he would Heusi, then the opinion that had been given by Ilvel
glee information. Campbell then eaid, he had no of t e eight Ceousel, who defended M4Kintey.—
objection to becoming a witness, T.inlifird his wife Wluat could be pined by this motion ? Tbey 'weetill'l
was fairest Into consideration. Mr. Drummond re- j hare the deposition of Campbell, -who, as a witness
joined, 4 Let us sit doWn sad enderstaod each other : ; cosi(' not be believed, laid on their table--and a
for I should not like to be mistaken at last.' The stigma would thus be cast on the Learned Lord, as
sending tor the wife, and the advancing a pound well as on several individuals who were not Mem-
mete fur that purpose, were then spoken of. While bers of the House, and who were, therefore, entitled
'they were discoursiag, the Solicitor-General, the to protection.
Preeerater.Fisc.al, the Sheriff, the Sheriff-Substitute, Mr. C. W. WYNN conceived that the question
and a clerk, came in. -- Mr. DruMmond having might be decided without much knowledge of Scotch
asked Campbell, ' What have you got to say to this I,lw. If the +minion was for an Address to re-
twines* ?' 'do letter answered, ' That unless a move the Advocate-Depute from his office, the ob.
passport for the Cognisant were procured, end the servations which had beets made by the Leonetti Gin.
.mains of ern out of die country were granted, Osman (Mr. A. Colquhoun) as to the credibitity 'of
`tie would not• be a Sliteeti.' Here be does net say. the witness. Campbell, would forcible ,apply. • Hut
be • eould i-'4 give.,lti!Ormation,:,. He states, ' I the question was to obtaiminformation on' this eatts-
canttat' he. a *Keats on this trial, en ,which you ordinary case. There were many instances of wit.
bate sobpiniaeri die, unless I get .a passport for news on trials having turned round and Rivers ki-
tties Contitittst,' and money to carry me thither.' deuce directly contrary to their former statements.-i-
--;•Cannot ibis be easily denitid,. It it be entree ? i A c use of this sort had occurred on the occasion of
Was not tie ClAik, who had taken dowel the con. 1 the trials for Treason in helmetlike and Cheshire in
tersalloa,' to be foetid ? Wis not the Procurator 1693, when much of thec,le for the Crown rested
Fiscal of 'Edinburgh present ?' Was not the Sheriff- on, the evidence of a man .of the Dame of Luck. oho,
Depute of 4:diriletrgh, SirArlillaiu Ray, also pre- when he was brought into Court, stated directly the
soot ? All these persons were witnesses of the reverse of what he had formerly deposed, and the
transaction, 'evil could speak to the truth er false- prosecutions fell to the ground. After this the House
hood of the statement.—[llear, hear!]—Campbell of Commons took up the subject, and declared its
declared, that the sem sod substance of all the con- opinion, that there was nothing improper in the coo-
negation amounted to this—thit be should receive duct of the prosecuting parties. lo the present case
the means of going to a foceign country, and be pre. the House was justified in instituting ass enquiry.—
ferred Prussia. The House knows that 4s. 6d. or ss. The question was, whether the House :would enquire
a weak was, at that time, manufacturers' wages, and —not into the couduct of a Court of Justice—bet,
good encouragement was held out to persons to go how the Servants of the Crosse had conducted them-
Prussia. Campbell 'elected that place, where such selves, so as to draw down the unanimous &appro.
encouraging prospects presented themselves, and this bation of a Court of Justice. lie thought a seffici-
circumstance, I conceive, tends to strengthen his Re- eat case was made oat to justify them in entering on
neral statement. Sonic time afterwards Campbell an enquiry.
wrote to Drummond, stating that he was in need Lord CASTLEREAGH would not have troubled
of a pair of shoes, and that. his wife wanted money. the House bat for some observations which had
In consequence, he got a pair of shoes from Mr. fallen from the last Member, and after paying every
Sibbald, the jailer, wito informed him, by direc- attention to what bad fallen from the other side of
lion of Mr. Drummond, that he could not then ,the geese, nothing bad appeared which should in•
have any money ; but that be should be sep;•lied duce the House to take any proceedings tpon the
when the fist trial was over.—[Hear. hear!]— subject. What were the grounds upon which the
He says he wrote a second letter, to Mr. Drummond, Hon. Member called on the House to proceed? Let
with a gentle demand for mow, to which he re. the natant of the record be examined, and it would
swived the same answer—that be could not have any be seen that the Officer of the Crown was warranted
money then, but would be presented with some after to prosecute in this case ; the Officer, in fact, was
the first trial was over,— (Hear, hear!j—lit the fully justified its the prosecution. 'l'be evidence
name of licauti ! can any thitsg be more easy than to went to show that a conspiracy did oast of the
convict the man of perjusf, ithe told a series of false- nature which had been described, and that the par-
-1 hoods ? He states circa'utaseces connected 'Wrier. ties *ere bound together by secret obligations.—
sons who might be adduced as witnesses against him, Therb was no motion whatever for calling for the
in a trial for.perjery—sod,, in truth, he appears record; and the only apparent objects to be attained'
most ansion to leave no point untouched, which, if were% either that the House should consider what
he were guilty, would operate against himself. It stepecould be taken to indict a punishment upon
seems that the agreement was burned— bat Campbell Campbell, or else to proceed against the Lord Ad•
still conteuds that be bad a right to rely on it, as it vocal!, as the Public Officer of the Crown. As to
was not destroyed by him. His statement is, in the depositions of Campbell, nothiug could possibly
some degree, borne out by the Learned Lord him. be made of it unless it were to be • taken with the
telt, who admits that a paper . was drawn up, and vieWof raising a subsequent question as to whether
, that a paper was . burned.-4flear. hear !)—The the House should adopt ulterior proceedings. What
'Learned Lord also adtniti-thai the Sheriff' ought to purpose could be answered in bringing forward
sake rare of all documents—bet he says, that the evidence which the Court of Session had de.l
Sheriff had a right to burn ibis paper.—Why.? Be- dared to be inadmissible, and what !pinion was
cause it was a paper that Contained nothing which new to be entertained upon a fresh view of esi-
-might not hue seen the light.' I shall Was the house deuce which was deemed incredible in a Couril
to decide between the &tined Lord's glosi.ioul my of Law.—(Hear, hear!) --Was it because the.
statement of this transaction. It is for them to cousi. evidence of Campbell wu perfectly unworthy of cry:
der whether the paper in qeistion did or did not con- dit in a Court of Justice, that it wits to be..tle:J
tale something that might- have been very important serviugof credit in the House of Commons. - {Hear,
An the elucidation of thls elibjeet.—[//erir, hear I]---- hcar!]—He was ant aware that soy thirigelse had
The subject of accusation was this—that Mr. Home been stated in argument. If Carephell's evidence
"Drummond, the Learned Lord's deputy, for whom, was not to be believed, what.could,the record for:,
kin law, be is bound; held out to the witness promises tsish ? Certainly nothing move thee that the Lord
'of reward for evils( his iestintony. Now I must Advocate was not entitled to proceed in the Courts
take the liberty to say, Idiffer is opinion from the below, because there was no man's nettle to the de.
-Learned Lord as to they law of Scotland. The Sheriff , position, and because too one was privy to tbe trans-.
ays, after what his been done, yew cannot take, the t actions between Mr. Drummond and himself. It was
oath, and go into the Jurf.boz, without committing Dever alleged—it was never suggested against the
perjury—and the Court decided 'that such was the Advocate.Depote, that from what .had passed be-
fact. The Leained Lord immediately itsiecl, ' I tween Campbell and himself it was impossible to its-
will not examine this witness,' and be withdraws I sign perjury. The main vesting' eat, whither the
him. Tbis.could have been done only on one of two witness had received' any thing heyood a fair pro-
grounds; either on account or the perjury he had corn- tedion. No written piper of necessity passed, and
witted—ortetause he could not legally take the oath. it was to be questioned if any circumstance had oc.-
1
Now the Learned Lord has referred to a case io Bor. cottred which amounted to show that the crime of par-.
metrto ilsoli.that witnesseensay be protected 'and re.ljery could be assigned to him ; it was placed aborts
Warded for a Particular purpose. It was held by the the midi of enquiry by any of the Coats below.--

-al_ -4 •
--•

_ _ cinetastanee. • Weald the
-me piles dm lent odium epos 'Or etittetiat
str attet"erleter.tatioatif. 4sit Welt &bind
(hoed tries # Mem/he& *:—W am 'Heel, pat
ea tospeteldr. iteitsis Ottileatead mpotb Sis.
trial epee .Ibe- allaptiests of such e men 1 'Set* a
peiticipie *Await sever be vaaetitteetreitlttio aoltb ilia
pabli c-,ltttertet. vaillt the *mere' waffant era••
coeattl. ow* net wires Stlkit Vs* tbeViattlis
of the Clown ter tkelerfesavemeal heir dot', 'bet
it *seas 4Siiipc to Airs:dist iiitiidttreetiese,adete
„allot thodoedAmbreateallecitirmelaahe•detfet erMi
Ale*. it was be wadi the &Athol tweet eft lor
Abisatatsze—{ thtereheaptF. bat be see eatleded fitat
atilt was mot a taus into white do Helitedlail caned
upou to eagaire; it was Ida eleek-t:letekeet spot'
the *widows of: a perms whale leatillasei Was eat
ccadiliti*; lie treated tie Maass Isissie Vethtttfttilis
for kostitetteg as @mislay, a* &elk*** WIN h
no weeds:Tut calliegfut the ifitraik ' - •
lIAMILLY fist eitta
and

~....

•
•

:10
• irot
oldest*

to the

ewiessworehle speech of his LtarsAdi F4eled (Mr.
4: P•keraiss); aw shoot:. hare sand sottibi, If if hit
.not 'be.sio for some remarks of timeloiaMsfitstil;Whick
~bowed that he was wholly suet-fur easy*/ etlfthat.
judickl, sneaky la which he hell taken pot: ' TIM
Pi10b10r.,1441d7 coutartolvd,.dist unless
seq., matafestly sufficient to Wiriest artdeieheilefia
.there usontd beim enquiry ithereis ibe fact sat, ft.
because aectfikarf enquire, liectiii6they df4 know
the facts. What- reason his therei.bien gee ii rib jr
they shaerrtd.n ut *see the record? 'The Learned Lord
( Lord Advocate), n 4ose ' conduct was •lm piicatert
said, that • the matter should nisi be trite:N-40 by his
House a Commons, beast. it *villa deprive Ind.
ideals rot Weir actions 'at fro igallist
as not true. Besides, whet-acihittleiiild be tr.roagitt
sgeinst the Lord Adiocetir •• foi
injwry-done by the peddedleirortanipbell as a wit-
ness ; for he had beets rejected: -Ili hathuld also •
whet! 'Mr. Adam moved for tie record' ef
trial tf Meek& -Muir sod- Palmer,
refined. Bet *deist a mottos ithic% called 1n Aids:
,tints the conduct of Ike Coen of Sittitiiry-fier
this MO the Lords Of the Jestlehtiy therniefevs de:
clared,*- diet siter,tk ought to be soeiti fort-het. investie.
gatien. hoed Gillies spoke to the idtdeilssibility of
the wheats Cainlibdil (inadmissibility it melt be
mingled, set on aocoont of iocrodibility. bet' on ace:
count *Utile misconduct of the prosetwor), and Va-
-1 marked that the Court were sitting tbtry the as of
,I•Kittley—that It weell be &Arita* thatlhs eel.
deuce of the whom Campbell 'Wield lielnyeitigated
farther—bet that was not the subjefrof the Uhl.
The Gerd Advocate bad stated, that It was the trial
of &Maley proved the. fact' diet. 0411 oaths had
been admiiisterrd in Grinedw*Oliatilitt 1 verdict
Setarned et 'wet *rotten. • • Mime issued theca ierT
diet of not proven, ciorpnostlelicii
istablishet, uad • Aka tiothiekl Wii 4ot' kilt-
bringing home of the gill 'lO cure
'taint could sot dtb fififfinie,
or Hume. of icellilsV,Werie Mi.l3dinel, for filtees., •
he seemed to hulk *tester reveteitce.'"this set ask
the niewniog of dui u/rttlict.: it otiltil tbaTtlikviart
was ost-made oet• weal* the Juryiliod thit sole
ther wits i bolo itowoceof the pasel tidily established. .
It was equivalent to. the non liqiiet of thefteisith Yaw,,:, •
and was a middle mane .wlitchliott4iftitorilr 104b-
t-he case was 04+e:fag clear is 14111dfinibbeettett 0l
the panel. .It was as acquittal, bet 'list h bonbur"l.., .
able acqttittel. Yet "ail ties facts*Wfircit'llw Log 'Ad:
recite chose te* 'Urge aratisgew elteoherfe.:, .
were •. prated by the 'eagletl trords''ridt prtoven.
Much• hod bees said of the' conirituniealion be.;

tweet" !he. prison., and the witness Cansgibe
Now, by.Scota'. law, the Messer was •entitled to
commenicate with the witnesses eddeCedikiltsof him,
,and be was always-furnished with elisrof`lhe' wit.
nines for. that peepose. The Net% Lead (Castle.
reigh) had called .on the Hesse to conciiiilth bins
its stilling all simplify. If he gainedvatajority of
the House, he certainly would not gain a .mejority of
the country; and he believed that there was not one
man out Odours, and perhaps not even isi that House,
who would agree with the Noble Lord in saying
that this case was got up, as be was pleased to call
it. If it was of importance that the criminal 'law
should be administered with impartiality. roold they
mist enquiry into a cue like this ? In Scotland the
law against *proper motives on the part of a witness
was stronger than is England ; and the Lord Mao.
Cate had confessed that it wen his duty to see that
witnesses should not he ender the influence either of
hope or feet, Every witness was required,- prowl.
ously to giving evidence, to swear that he bed re.
ceived no reward, nor promise, our good-deed (s
very comprehensive word), for giving their evidence.
Now previously to the trial it was sworn,' that this
Campbell had been worked on by the promise of re-
ward en the one band, and theihneat of death on
the other. lie •itaa told that there wire sie witnesses
against him, fad es be •buesv. the model which hid
bees maiddyed-lit obtain evideticeoltre . might also. •
know that conkiois innocence was of no avail; end
with these poWerfel efgineepf hoPeAlitloculr tusks.
oil him, 1s was sent forth to give hit evjaencer.
And whit; Whe,..ityras.merely •
4sked, woiddlisercidl oe. a Gentlemantaat Ms: H. •
tiVitissier Um evidence of sogb.e..snon es
Campbelti would tuiswet, yea—that,there Wes
no-one abigh in this.ceoutry, a,,to blitcseelled from-
the obligiation of aniiveriiii tq ttch w charge.- Ineett•
who refused Miss Gentlemsjs. and the ,Chats who
'were "iinvlic;itei.i, the power of clnatiug theteseliee, •
did thetb.thOktriatest dipsertice. Nothing bet atria*
resttgation Could remove from them the cloud' of the
weiskiuspicion=ef 'dais practices: in rases in- which
the life of men weie at stake.r-(//eer, howl} • -
Mr. V.: FITZGEItALL) eppes,d ease enquiry,
and contended, jiLlticr, ton witisess.alho had
rendered himself °homages, the Crown *astound
to convey him nut of the country.
The All OLtN RY-GENER A L observed, that in
the teltiutinty el Campbell be had seen anarconat•of
eitfel man wko could beitiliklarge fabric of false.
hoed to diagesiify himself as a witness, because he
Could tell what he knew. tasty mass was hound to
appear•in a Court of 4eilleel, bet it did not follow,
that a man attseked by a witness shoold he called to
account by the House of Commons. Ile cook! not
sanction a motion that imputed blame to tLe Lord

1

.

-‘

..c I •- • ,' : • ;fret Tait- . .
. .
......1/4.-„:,--.,......:-..... tflig._,:risr-ApplmitAvvv:=.-.- :,:<..:..-.............:--.,-Amkr.-:.•••=...-.---=‘,r7r.-._.;77.-..,..-eTrAt.,72...m.F.47.ir ~...-:,?..47... ,r --. ,--. , -
•,. .., . . ~ .
1101 Otlinioottaosd. ille state% . Giiittribok• 'tliik: Coma irtbild loots*: it'd iii nip aIA 13bald vestimrsiby •
iakiikirliOtid stem! to Lord .oitsiss lonsCithiO4 it pis 'ilia tPketr i (Mid . Perm
grime"Millt.
'west"
)!'ankroil rill. :‘ i itotoot, tak; :-.l)Oet ' .shOild do - mi Crop of • 4 Cgs"
'distr"
the
"lash"fr4l"6.ll' s.d 11111.6111."
6... _
~ .
~. _
..,._, i v 1.1.
..„ _
..
.....t.)9u! . . or., Ito lotta•ss..— be ositimktbatti• :we sus did. a '••••%t *Mem

I -