The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-02-12 00:00:00

DUTIES.

Mr. CItTIEVEY rese, pursuant to his notice, to
make a mot;on upon this subject, and he thought the
pr..seot tooment a peculiarly fit one, when a new
agreelieet %as to be made with the Executive Go-
vernment, and when, therefore, we ought precisely
toituow what was to be granted. With regard to
these defies, it was hir opinion they were the pro-
perty of the inhabitants of Barbadoes, and ought to
be applied to colonial purposes. This was his first
opinisso--bat if that • should be negatived, and if it
should be thought that these duties ought to find their
way into the &chequer, then he would suhmit whe-
ther'tbay might not to be applied In aid of the Pub-
lic Expelditake. But,' if neither of these opinions
sh 4 uld bil held valid; he hoped that the abuses iu
the apple.siva of this revenue, which he had the',
power of provieg, would be thought sufficiently im-
perhint to deserve the attention of the House.— ,1
',i'o , prove 'that 'these duties were the property of
the inhabitants of Barbadoes, he would mention a
few historical :facts. In the beginning of the reign
'of Charles the First a grant of the whole Island,
of Bachadors, which. was then worth nothing, was
made. to the Earl of Carlisle j during the troubles bf
the 94,1 War. and the Protectorate, however, many
persons 'Woo over there os settlers, and it became,
Iraq? a desert Islancf, a very prosperous place. The
Earl of.t,aciiile died very much in debt, and his son
trenattriedifie.gratit of the Island of Barbadoes to
'the Karl.' oti, kitinoulk The creditors, of the first
Earl cf cal isle, heaving that the island had become
.valimbli vossession, made some applications to the
:Privy Crinic.l; which tended materially to affect the
Intert.sts of landholders itr,Barbadoes, and some of
qe planteta came over to England, 'and to the same
•Flity Cornell made an offer something like a royal
mivenue;ll they were preserved in their rights and
•rsiwoni- -when they returned to dirbodoes, the
st thing thatas done by the colony itself was the
passing ap lo Which it was declared, that in
consideration of the *charges'incurred in maintaining.
Isis Majesty's authority there, they stye and ranted
to his Majesty, and his successors,. lor ever, an ha--
pc:4 or cartons upon the dead commodities of that
iglapri, at the rate of 41 in specie, -for every five
score. But this money was raised for public service
In that Wend; for thevaislig.sed repairing of forti. '
lattineas Pf k was intended to 'come to
this country, In the rolgp of Chia** 11, when the
rrguhatoo& for his vevenwe were %Wilted, n 6 mention
was made of this fund; ndr was titer* any is that;
fff James 11. to whom the whole royal aitabltshmant
trsuareired, in kid by his protessolon le

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'TAE sTA!

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William 111. indeed, this fund was recognised
in two Acts as among the small hereditary rev
venues of the Crown : but when the Civil List of
Queen Anne was arranged, a Petition Wes pre-
sented from the planters of Barbadoes,• stating,
that the funds had been perverted from their ori-
ginal purpose, and praying that they might be ap-
plied to their legitimate use"; In consequence, a Com-
mittee of the Mese of Commons addressed the
Queen, and requested that these funds might be ap-
propriated, as they were Wended, to celpni;l put-
poses; and they were so. In George I. this fund
was again speeifivally exempted when arranging the
Royal Revenue ; and the same in George 11. Upon
the accession of his present Majesty, however, a
new, speeies of arrangement took place. It was
agreed, that upon his surrendering certain revenues,
he should receive a specific sum for his Civil List.
It might be said, indeed (and that was the only
thing that could be urged), that in the enumeration of
the revenues which was moved for in consequence of
his Majesty's Message to Parliament, this fund of
44 per cent. was not surrendered by name. True :
and why ? Because he could not be said to pos-
sess them, Queen Anne never had them; and
1 they were specifically exempted in the regulations
for the revenue of George I. and 11. But admitting
that these sums ought to find their way into this
country, they should certainly go to the Consolide-
ted Fund, and not in aid of the Civil List. With
regard to the abuses, he would state that this fund
had produced 1,600,0001. since his Majesty's awes- I
sion, and oat of this 400,0001.hadbeen paid for sale-
ries to Governors, If this sum had been paid, how:
ever, to the Governors of Barbadoes and Leeward!
Islands, there might be no reason to complain : but
1 out of this 400,0001. all the Governors of islands '
seemed to be paid; even those of Guernsey and Jer.
soy. For special service 826,00Q1, had been taken
from that fund ; and 48,0001. for Secretaries to the
Treasury. It had also contributed 170,0001. in sup-
port of his Majesty's Civil List ; and all these sums
had been applied without Parliament knowing any
thing about it. Numerous Pensions too had been
granted out of this fund during the same period, to
the amount of 740,0001. Among others, was 3,0001.
to the- Earl of Chatham, and 0,0001.. a year, during
twenty years, to the late Duke of Gloucester. There
were many cosveniences attached to Pensions on this
fund ; a fund which was entirely out of sight : but I
looking at the way in which it was so injuriously I
used, he should move that a Select Committee be ap-
pointed to examine into the nature of this revenue, its
amount, and its application.
Mr. LONG wished that the Hon. Gentleman had
studied thehistory of the period he had allude,' '0 with
a little mole attention, and he would then have fount
that the grant to the King by the Act of the Colony,
1663, was in cousideration of the planters being al-
lowed to keep possession of their lauds; and though
he readily admitted, that in the island of Barbadoes
(and there alone) a part of this revenue was to be
applied to local purposes, yet- the remainder was in-.
tended to be reserved to the King. When the Hon.
Gentleman referred to what had been done by Queen
Anne, he should have taken into his observations all
the collateral circumstances. The fact was this--e
commission was sent out to Barbadoes to look into
the state of the fortifications, which they had re.
portedeo be in complete ruin, and an Address was
consequently presented to the Queen, that she would
be pleased to apply these duties to the purpose of re.
pairing those fortifications, width she accordingly
did, and therefore they were excepted in the arrange.
meat of her Majesty's revenues. It was his decided,
opinion that these funds were a part of the heredi-
tary revenue of the Crown, and of which it cannot
be-divested but by an express Act of Parliament;
and this opinion bad been held by a recent Committee
of that-House (the Finance Committee), which hed'
declared that the 41 per cent. duty had bees consi-
dered as continuing at the disposal of the Crown as
its hereditary revenue. When Ise considered these ,
circumstances, he could not but 'express .his dissent
at going into a Committee to enquire into the appli-
cation of this inferior branch of his Majesty's re-
venue,
Mr. PETER MOORE said, that the simple gees. I
tion was, did those funds belong to the Crown, of i
did they not ? He contended that they did not, that 1
they were on the same footing as the revenues of the
Duchy of Cornwall, and no one would contend that
the Crown could grant pensions on the revenues of
that Duchy.
Lord FOLKESTONE said, that the only person
found on either side of the tiouie to oppose the
motion for a Committee, was a Right Honourable
gentleman (Mr. Long), who was a pensioner to the
amount of 15001. a year upon those four and a 1
half per cents. which it was the purpose of that Com- j
mittee to enquire Into, and that Right Hon. Gentle.
man had defended this disposition of them upon the
sole ground of usage, as if because an abuse was an
old one, it ought, therefore, to be continued. He
then proceeded to, show that these four and a half,
percents. were excepted out of the Civil List of ;
I
Queen Anne, and also out of ,those of George. I. and
11., and could not consequently have vested in his I
present Majesty. The list given in to Parliament of 1
the commencement, did pot contain any specification
of the four and a half per cents. because that list was
not? as it had been alleged tolie, a list of what ii,e
Majesty bad given up in lieu of the Civil List estab-
lishmeet, but a list of what then vested in him, se
that, according to his Majesty's own list, they had
then the strongest negative testimony that the four
and a half per cents. were not then in possession of
the Crown.
• Mr. LONG explained, '
j Mr. ROSE denied that the 'original purposes of I
rthe four and &half per cents, were merely and strict-
y colonial.
Mr. MARRIOTT said, that originally the four rli
and a kale per cents. were a vohsntary gift on the
circumstances
eeuberaneebadof
31atheritrolfoythe
ajty".6"; thittofsißanterbadtha4; t'limien
imotiallTud nyot mteeed,tehe colonies were heavily tom 4 i
the most devoted and oppresaed-
' part et the Empire. e ,
Mr. PREEVEY,ShovtIy replied.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUiIi ad...
Mitt" that they he'd been excepted out of the Clad
Use of Warn 4Ernir merge the First, and Veorge
dm moods idol dented that they were iss **refer,
WI int of thi Royal dismal
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ehte, WHITBREAD could not help thinking the
Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Long) a most
questionable advocate in support of the present mode
of disposing of the four and a half per cents. If It
was an abuse of those funds, it was art abuse from
which that Right lion. Gentleman derived 1,5001. a
year. He did not wish to under-rate the public ser-
vices of that Gentleman, but he would ask if there
had not been those four and a half per cents. if Par-
liament would have voted 15001. a yoar to that Right
efononrOble Gentleman in consideration of those see-
"vices ? [Hear, hear 1 Before those funds had
been eaeepted from the Civil List, it was but too
well knew, Ape they were in general appropriated
to the purposes of 'Parliamentary corruption, now
though it was impossible that in times of modern pu-
rity they could be so devoted, yet he thought that the
)
fact of excepting them from the Civil List, after such
notorious abuse of them, proved that it was the in.
° teotion of the Legislature, at that time, to leave
*hem no longer at the disposal of any Minister, He
should vote for going into the Committee.
The gallery was then cleared for a division.
The House then divided—For the Motion, 19—
Against it, 50.
SWEANT AT ARMS 4ND CLERK OF THE HOUSE.
' Mr. PEKEVAL moved to bring in a Bill to re-
peal the Act of the 40th of his present Majesty, re-
gulating the effices of Clerk and t4erjeant at Aims of
the House of Commies, and to establish other and
farther reguletious iu plea thereof. For the last
30 years the Offices of Serje;nt at Arms and House-
keeper had been joined in one, end 'certain fees had
' been received in both capacities. fie proposed that
,pie two (Aces should in foture be consolidated, and
should not hereafter be capable of separation. The
i Assistant Clerk too, he proposed, should be recog-
I sized, The Priecipal Clerk, the House need not be
! Wormed, often acted by Deputy, and be intended to
Ipropose that when a Deputy was required the As-
i sigma Clerk should be promoted; a provision being
I ende for a salary for the Principal Clerk on retiring,t
1 He also proposed that a prevision should be made '
I for the Deputy Serjeant, though by no means that he 1
' should be placed on a par with the Principal.
I sr. W. SMITH did not mean to oppose the'
Bit, he only begged in that stage of the businesseo I
ielFitess his doubts as to the advantage to be derived 1
itrott,baving e. Deputy Serjeant et all. The, House I
had' never found a Deputy Speaker necessary, nor
did* see the necessity of having duplicates of any
kind.
Mr. PERCEVAL conceived that nothing Gould
be more necessary than that there should be a Sere
jeant, or Deputy Serjeant, at all timer in waiting to
obey the call of the Speaker. •
- Leave was then given V bring in the Bill.
' Mr. PERCEVAL immediately brought it up,
,vilien it was read a first time, and ordered to be read
a second time on Thursday, and to. be printed.
CIVIL Lto CONMITTEE.
Mr. EDEN rose, for the purpose of moving the
House that he may be disc-hared-from attending the
Committee for which he had moved yesterday, on
the subject of the Expeities of the Civil List. Mu-
tilated as the Committee was, by His mlein which it
was appointed ;—deprived of the powE of sending
for persons, papers, and records ;—crippled as it i
, was, in every respect, by the limited powers with
which it was invested, 'or rather by-the total want
of all powers—he could not but oonc.eive it perfectly I
inadequate to the accomplishment of the object he ,
had in view, or, indeed, to the accomplishmentof any 1
good or legitimate object whatever. He must beg
that his attendance on each a Committee be dipensed
with. The Committee might conjecture, but it could
not come to any well-founded conclnsion on ally one
topic which might come before them. 'They might
express regret at any expence which might seem too„
great, bet they could neither come to any sound
judgment as to the amount of the -unnecessary and
improper expenditure, nor adopt means for prevent-
ing it its future. He was thoroughly persuaded that
it would be a waste of his own time in him to attend
such a Coin; :tee; nor did he feel that he could be
an etticieet Member of it. . 1
The question !ping pat and reconded,
I Mr. YORKE was of opinion that after the Hon.
i likemb. r had, no further otf than yesterday, moved
',for the anpointment of thit very Committee, and af- I
ter the Douse Lad, on his own suggestion, reposed I
I in him the duty of being a Member of that Commit- t
I tee, it was rather inconsiteent in him now to eeme I
to the House, and desire to be di.cearged from at-i
I tendance on the Committee, ' merely because the I
House had not thouke proper to grant to the Hon.
Member all that he asked. The House had refused,
land he thought properly so, to grant to this Commit-
) tee greater powers than they had given to a Ceremit-
tee on the same subject in 1804. But still see. a the
Committee ese if they should be or opinion that
they had not due means of information, on any pare'
titular subject, or even, if any individual Member
of the Committee was of that opinion, might not the'
' Committee, through their Chairman, or- any indivi- I
dual Member, come to the (louse and move for such 1
information as thly might think wanting, on any I
'branch of the subject referred to them ? • lie did not I
I see why the House ought to distrust the Committee
i they had appointed.; nor could he consent that the i
Hon. Member who itadhad a duty devolved on hint
by the House, at his "own desire, should be dis.
charged from that duty because he had not got all he
wanted.
Mr. HORNER contended that, the charge of in-
consistency attempted to be made against his lion.
Friend (Mr. Eden) was utterly unfounded. The.
Right Hon. Gentleman said It was inconsistent in his
lion. Friend to ask to be discharged of a duty which
be asked to be allowed to perform. Nothing, how-
'Sever, could be so unfounded, • His Hon. Friend had
asked for a Committee to enquire; the House had
appointed a Committee to consider, but had denied
him ; Committee to enquire. They had giveu him a
Committee utterly unfit for any good purpose. But,
whether they were fit for any good purpose or not, it-
, was enough for his Hon, Friend to .y, that this was
not the Committee be asked. The Committee .irp-
pointed was a Committee on nothing but accounts,
and yet they were denied the power of eendiwngfteire.
I single" explanatory piper. If this wise so, ha n
consistency could be attributed to hie lion. Friend In
i'rettuesting that be might be discharged him attend-
,
lag such a Committee, after the blouse had denied
lOWA OW, p9weree VW! ;milk ,Piette TeWer their
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appointment available ? Ho thought his Hon. Friend
had acted a manly and becoming part in asking to be
discharged from attending a Committee whose labour:
must be completely inefficacious.
Mr. BATHURST was of opinion, thatany infer.
nation which might be wanted by the Committee
might still be obtained by coming to the House, after
they were aware of the particular head on which the
pspers, or other information, would be required.
rhen, too, it would be in the power of the House
to consider, whether the information ought to be
I asked by Vote or by Address. The limited powers
of the Committee at present, did not go to infer a
permanent exclusion of evidence, but only put it o;►
the Committeee, in, the first place, to see what could
be done by the information afforded them by the
Crown.

Mr. PETER MOORE contended, that Ms lion,
Friend (Me. Eden) had been perfectly consistent,
Mr. MACDONALD asked, would the Right
Hon, Gent. (Perceval) now undertake to consent to
address the Crown for the Popes necessary to enable
the Committee to come to some judgment on the mat.
ters referred to them? At present the Committee had
nothing to do but to take their 'shape, of any papers
falling into their web
Mr. MONTAGUE was afraid, that the present
motion might be of dangerous example, and might
induce the peep!* to believe that that House wished
to deny entrirY,
The Idetieg was *et jset aim nettalivetl without
division,