The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-04-29 00:00:00

SHERIFF THORPE.
____

Colonel BARRY moved that George Arthur and
George Nugent, two other witnesses, be ordered to attend
the House on Monday next.—Ordered.
Mr. W. BANKS presented a petition from Borough-
bridge against the Catholic Claims.—Ordered to be
printed.
Mr. TULL presented a petition from the Magistrates
and Inhabitants of ,Sodbury, in Suffolk, complaining
that vestiges of slavery were still suffered to exist in the
British West India Colonies.

Sir ISAAC COFFIN said, if the petitioners were se-
rious, the true way to abolish slavery would be to get
the West Indies into their hands by buying the mer-
chants out, and so abolish slavery altogether.—(A laugh.)
The petition was ordered to lie upon the table.
IRISH MILITIA.

Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET brought up the Re-
port on the Irish Militia Reduction Bill.
Mr. HUME said, if this was the proper stage. lie would
wish to propose an Amendment to this Bill. The
amendment would relate to the employment of the Staffs
of the Militia. It was a matter of complaint that, after
this country had laid out a million of money in raising
the Militia in Ireland, no use whatever had been made
of the Staffs of the different corps. His amendment was
intended to remove these Staffs into the disturbed dis-
tricts, or whenever their services would be mostavailable,
at the pleasure of the Lord Lieutenant. He wished to
know whether the Right lion. Gentleman bad any inten-
tion of giving the Lord Lieutenant a power of dismissing
these Staffs altogether.
Mr. GOULBURN said he did not feel himself called upon
to say why he had not proposed the reduction of the Irish
Militia. It was the constitutional farce of the country. As
to removing the Staffs front one town to another, that would
defeat the object of the Militia altogether, it being Intend-
ed that the Stan's should remain in their own counties, in
order to be a rallying paint for the corps when their services
became necessary. Ile was bound, however, to say that
the Irish Militia had ever shown the best disposition to
enter upon any service in which they might be most useful.
—(Hear).
Mr. HUME complained that the Staffs were lodged in
country villages, near the residences of the Colonels, which
produced a heavy charge for barracks. He thought, if it
was only to secure their stores, that they ought to be sent
into barracks. The refusal to dismiss the Staffs, or make
them available to the public service; showed that the Irish
Government had no serious notions of economy.
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the Bill ordered
for a third reading to-morrow.
Sir M. RIDLEY presented a petition from the Colliers of
Newcastle, against the Coal Duty.
Mr. HUME presehted a petition from an individual of the
name of George Mite, who had been a confidential servant
of Mr. Pitt, for nine years, and then a Surveyor of Taxes at
Kensington, complaining of being dismissed from his situa-
tion by the Hoard of Taxes, on anonymous information,
without any inquiry into his case.
A conversation took place on this petition between Mr.
HUME and Mr. LUSH INGTON, which terminated by Mr.
Hume giving notice that he wtrild to-morrow more for the
production of the Correspondence between the indivi-
dual, the Board of Taxes, and the Commissioners of the
Treasury.
Mr. UURWEN presented a petition from Captain Manby,
praying for a remuneration of services,
Sir ISAAC COFFIN Said a few words in support of the
petition.
The petition was ordered to be laid on the table.
On the motion of Mr. Sergeant ONSLOW, the Usury
Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second
time on that day se'nnight.
FOREIGN RELATIONS.

Mr. MACDONALD rose, conformable to notice, to
move an Address on the papers laid on the table relating
to the late negotiations, and said, that be was not sur-
prised that no notice had yet been taken of a communi-
cation of so momentous a character as the papers on the
table were likely to prove to them; and which. he trust-
ed, had found their way into the hands of all Isis Ma-
jesty's subjects, through a press which was not yet en-
slaved, and which reasons would be found in the papers
to induce them to cling to it wi Is a redoubled zeal and
attachment. It might have been well that the commu-
nication had to remain until the British public had at-
tentively considered the nature of the measures which
were pursued, and until the house had recovered in some
degree from the surprise—from the emotions of sorrow
and disgust with which the perusal of them was at-
tended. If they were to lay there, covered with dust,
until the feeling which they had produced on the British
nation bad subsided, it would be immaterial. Ilowever,
a time had elapsed, and there he stood, in default of a
better, though many better he saw around him qualified
to speak out on behalf of the people of this country,
their character and their honour. They were arrived at
one of those eras which called upon them to review their
past conduct and their present intentions ; to see what
errors they bad fallen into; to inquire whether their
influence and consideration as a nation stood where it
had ever stood, and where it ought to stand. The
House would give him leave briefly to recall to it the si-
tuation in which the country and its foreign relations
stood at present. The war which commenced in 1793,
and did not terminate until ISIS, produced a material
alteration in their international situation. It brought
them more into contact with the despotic Governments
of Europe. Ile would not enter into the propriety or
impropriety of that war ; it might have been avoided ;
but, in either case, it was impossible fur him to concur
in the false analogy instituted by Chateaubriand between
it and the aggression on Spain. When be heard the
speeds of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) on
presenting the papers, he war reminded of a passage
which he had read of a speech relative to the proceed-
inirs of the former period. An lion. Gentleman then
said, that he feared the enemy much less than the Allies.
for he saw the country was engaged against the pos-
sible excesses of liberty, but the Allies waged war
against liberty itself. In the progress of that war the

first attempt of French tyranny against Spain began, and 1
the people of this country cried out against it. They
did so, indifferent, whether it was a Bonaparte or a
Bourbon that the neck of the free Spanish nation should
be made a footstool of ambition. When that war ter-
minated to the discomfiture of France, they all knew
that British isil/4yonets replaced the fallen itourbon on
the throne of France. The scramble that then took
place; the cutting and carving of states and provinces
that then took place would not be forgotten. it was to
' make way for the European family of monarchs against
the liberties of mankind, anti with which this country
was so mixed up, that so long as Naples, Parma, and
Genoa, are not forgotten, so long will they be a re-
proach to English history. The object was said to be, to,
keep the country from a conflict ; vet in all their measures
the foundation for future wars were laid. A military ca-
valry was introduced, in which this country participated.—
The spolistion of Poland was in the same spirit as those
or ISIS. The character of the country was so much in-
volved, that it had, like Cresar's wife, some necessity of
maintaining some caution and circumspection. One word
only as to Spain. Spain in 1812 received its ancient and
honourable Constitution—the old and limited Monarchy of
Castile was revived: And one reguiati-on was made, that
no alteration should be attempted, until Rini Constitution
had received the test of eight years. The Allied Powers
then seemed to vie with each other in congratulations to
Spain and Its Monarch. The Autocrat of Russia then ap-
plied to the bionarcky that emphatic word, for which so
much has been contended, called legitimacy. • Notwith-
standing all this, Ferdinand was the first to overthrow
the system of things, which had in view only the salvation
of his people, and to incarcerate and execute those who
were most forward iu establishing that bulwark to the li-
berties of the country. In 1820 the worst of tyrants fell,
and at his fall the Peninsula became free. It was not to
be wondered at, that a nation labouring under the eon-
trout of priesteraft, should be exposed to some convul-
sions upon being restored to perfect and rational liberty.—
To this consummation, however, France was herself a
party, and she had the effrontery now to impute that tO'
Spain as a crime, that she herself had suggested. In 1820.
the Emperor of Russia, distant almost from Spain as pole
is from pole, bethought himself for the first time, that
to his Interference alone, the Spaniards could look for
perfection of their Constitution. Ile did interfere—shed-
ding upon it all the results of the collocted wisdom of his
free and civilized predecessors fur ages—(hear); but Goo
defend us from this Northern light,—(Bear and laugning)—
did him great credit. In this, England distinctly disclaimed.
The late Lord Londonderry then presented a note, the
greater part of which, lie (Mr. M'D.) was ready to admit,
all international interference. It might be as well to say
a few words upon the dissensions which now and then ere I
said to prevail in Spain, and which had received some-
thing like a malignant exaggeration, in a quarter where
it might have been spared. Differences, indeed, in a
country where a revolution had taken place; was there
ever a country In which such convulsions had not taken
place, unaccompanied by differences of opinions amongst
the people? Of the two halves into which it is said the
Spanish nation is divided, they may be thus described ;
on one hand, were the numerous body of proprietors of
land, nerchants, men of literature and scieoce; and out
the other, a few bigottcd Nobles, the graat body of the
Clergy, and a small part of the lewest.classes of the
people. The Bloat lion. Ovetlaniata in his speech seem-
ed to anticipate opposition front certain pognacioas indi-
viduals, and from those who were discontented, without
fuming the country to a war. Fortunate for the Go-
vernment if no other adversaries appeared. But did he
know of the great authority and power of Great Britain?
Did he never hear of the dignified and manly appeal
which it was within its power to have made—could lie
imagine nothing of a decided tone which it should have
assumed—or nothingshort of an open declaration of war.
It was to these points that he was then directing- his at-
tention. The charge which lie brought against his Ma-
jesty's Government was, not that they did not proceed to
tear, but that they did nut take such steps as would save
the country from the necessity of it. They hail given
way to some chimerical fears, that if they had assumed
another tone, war might have been made on us, but they
have not saved the country from the apprehension of
being yet hourly dragged into it. The question naturally
di% hied itself into three parts. The first, the proceedings
at Paris—the negociations at Verona—and the negocia-
tions at Madrid. It was not a little remarkable, that
for two years and a half the Government was in a
state of total ignorance of what was passing between
France and Spain. IVas it also ignorant of what was
going on between France and Russia? The former igno-
rance remained, even at the moment when it was commu-
nicating to France all that took place between itself and
Spain. These were facts at present avowed, and to him
they appeared almost a libel on the late Marquess of Lon-
-1 dooderry. The Duke of Wellington arrived at Paris, and
when he reached there was infoCmed by Mole Villele, that
certain questions were to be put to the representatives of
the Sovereigns at Verona. The Duke said, that lie could
not answ.r hypothetical questions. Ile said lie should
write home for instructions ; and not only did his
Grace write as to what line he should pursue, but for
what arguments lie should use. The Right llononrable
(gentleman gave an answer, and he must do him the jus-
tice to say, that he did not affect to misunderstand the
meaning of M. de Villele.

No. ll.—Mr. SECRETARY CANNING TO TILE DUKE
OF WELLINGTON.

(Extract.) For.?lgn 001 r e, Sept. 27, 1922.
If there he a determined' project to interfere by force or
by menace in the present struggle in Spain, so convinced
are his Majesty's Government of the uselessness and dan-
ger of any such interference—so objectionable does it op-
pear to them in principl.., as well as utterly impracticable
in execution, that when the necessity arises, or (I would
rather say) when the opportunity oilers, I am to instruct
your Grace at once frankly and peremptorily to declare,
that to any such interference, come what may, his Majesty
will not be a party.
From this IIIIS.11(er of the Right Iron. Gentleman, be (Mr.
M.) confessed ti, sit his grief and indignation began. The
Right lion. Gentlemen should have declared any attempt to
be a gross violation of international law, and of the first
principles of good faith and justice. Ile should have
looked upon it as a scheme to which he would not be a par-
ty, nor connive at. He should have instructed the Duke of
Wellington to negociate at Paris, where he had the French
Minister alone to deal with. It appeared to Itim that the
chief error was that of neglecting to negociate at Paris,
and the next that of goi ,g to Verona. They had then to
approach the august Congress at Verona with awe and pro-
found respect. lie would de so when he saw the Monarchs
of Europe feel they were but men. When they feel that
their subjects are men, not things; and when he saw them
promoting their happiness and welfare, then and then only
would he (a Member of an English Parliament) approach
to kiss the border of their Imperial Purple. But until that
change took place, he would use that word, which they
might still near. at least in au English Douse of Commons,
and he would call them Tyrants. (Hear, hear.) On the for-
mer evening the Right lion. Gentleman thought it right to
vindicate the appointment of Sir William A'Court to Ma-
drid, for what reason he knew not. But one strange fact
came out, that the Ministers of those Sovereigns did call
•• the of of a British Secretary of State. to remonstrate
with him on the appointment of an. Ambassadr,r of the
country. He believed, however, their object was not to
prevent Sir W. A'Court being sent, but to try to prevent any
appointment. With regard to the choict of the Duke of
Wellingt4n, as the negociator at Verona, there were some

who entertained different opinions. In one case he bore is
his own person the proof of what had been done, and sight
be done, for Spain and Spanish recline. The Bight Hon:
GentJenne bad taken great pains to show that diplomatic
fact was nst to be expected from the correspondence of me
Noble Duke. No such thing was wanted : plain and frisk
statements were all that were required on the part of tau
British representative. Was it that the coldness of the
British Cabinet paralysed his Grace; that there was no ran
who could think what goodmight have been done, if he had
brought one tithe of that decision of character to Verona
which had distinguished him in the field. It would have.
been natural for the British Government to licve said, it
we are to try Spain, she should be celled to appear in tier
own defence. Tire provisions of the Treaty of Aix-la-Cite;
pelle required it. The ignorance of the Duke of We:ling;
ton on some occasions was to be wondered at, as he was
found at another making very accurately the distinction
between internal and external relations. The Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman, in speaking of these qaestiocs, called
them hypothetical; but the meaning could be seen,
though conveyed in that manner. How would such an
hypothesis have been received in the days of F:lixabrth ?
Would Burleigh have shaken his head, or riot, emphatic
as that was supposed to be? The next sten was, that
forth came the Declaration of the Holy Alliance. Ott
that his lion. and Learned Friend near Lim hid CM:-
mented so ably, had dissected with such a masterly Land,
that he would not touch upon it. He would malle only
one remark—that the same point was strained at in all—
that of legitimacy. In one of the declarations Spain is
promised the high honour of getting a place in the
European family of nations. The Right Honourable
Gentleman had said that the tone of the Duke of Wel-
lington was the same on the last day as well as the first.
That was the very thing be complained of. There was,
however, one difference—the compliments' to the Sove-
reign were renewed. His deference to them was ac-
knowledged. What could • that he for ? Was it tlefe:.:
ence for having kept him in the dark so long? On the
minds of those who moved in the hest informed circles
throughout Europe, there was the s'rongest conviction,
that if this country had acted with firmness and decision.
the war which now desolates the Peninsula, would never
have been undertaken. The conduct of the Bourbons
had certainly exposed the weakness of this country.—
Possibly any increase of our military and naval esta-
blishments might have been inconvenient ; but the re-
sources of the country were not so pressed that we could
not act an independent part. The (tight Hon. Secretary
for Foreign Affairs, in a speech which he bad made on a
late occasion in that Home, said to those who believed
that we should enrage in a war sooner or later. "then
let it be later." But be (Mr. M.) would say that the
Right HOll. Gent. and his colleagues preferred the chance
of bringing the war on this country sooner—(hear, hear)
—by the pusillanimous conduct which they pursued all
through those negociations. It was no easy matter to ob-
serve clearly and conscientiously on the papers laid on the
table, for the Right lion. Gent. gave them to the House
rather sparingly. la one of his despatches to the Duke
of Wellington, to be found in page 12, of those papers,
the Right Hon. Gent. said, that " all those of his Ma-
jesty's servants whom I have been able to consult, are
of opinion that it is highly material for the clear and
perfect discharge of the duty of the Drlthh
in a question so deeply affecting the interests, not only
of the Powers immediately concerned, but of the
world, that your Grace should not leave Paris without
having placed in the hands of the. French Government
the eventual offer of his Majesty's mediation." In the
first place, then, it was clear that the British Government
occupied themselves in proposing a mediation between
, France and Spain. Supposing, then, that it was pm-
sible, by a decided and prompt intervention, to explain
away the differences between those Powers, have we not
lost the best opportunity ? the had not vet made any
observation on M. de Villele's offer of sending to Verona
an order to have the transmission of the several notes
snspended, in orJer to give time for further deliberation.
Perhaps such a proposal, wa.r no more than a it-Hi to
hold wit the appearance of moderation. 'fhe Duke do
Montmorency, in his note to the Duke of Wellington, at
Paris, sta'ed that to which it was material to call on the
House to bear in mind. That Minister said " his Ma-
jesty has appreciated the sentiment's which have induced
the Kitrg of England to offer his mediation to iris Majes-
ty, in order to prevent a rupture between him and the
Spanish Government. But his Majesty could not bet
feel that the situation of France with retard to Spain
was not of a nature to call far a mediation between the
two Courts. In fact, there exists no difference between
them—no specific point of discussion, by the arrangement
of which the relations in'ght be placed on the footing in
which they might to stand. Spain, by the nature of her
revolution, and by the circumstances with which it has
been attended, has excited the apprehensions of several
great Pacers. England participated in these apprehen-
sions; for even in the year MO, she foresaw cases
in which it would be impossible to preserve with Spain
relations of peace and good understanding." Subse-
quently to the receipt of that despatch, the negociations
were opened at Madrid. The Right llonourable Gen-
tleman, when his intervention sr as refused by the
French Minister, turned to Spain. A special messen-
ger was accordingly, some days after, dispatched to Ma-
drid with the Duke of Wellington's compliineets—(a
laugh)—to his old friends and companions in arms in
that country. The Noble Duke did not hesitate to re-
commend to them that it would be better for them to give
up every thing for the purpose of averting the war. To
that note his Grace appended some of his abstract notions
of what a King ought to he, and with what portion of
power he ought to he contented ; with other minute d!-
tinition of the Royal power and the rights of the people,
all which notions his Gracejvished to be disseminated in
the Courts of Europe withlis attestation. On the 23d
of January, M. Chateaubriand, in his note to the Right
lion. Gentlernin (Mr. Canning), used much stronger
language. Ile said that " his Most Christian Majesty
demands that his Catholic Majesty should of himself, and
by his own authority, apply the necessary modifications
to the institutions whicti have been imposed on the
Crown of Spain by the revolt of a few soldiers." in two
or three days afterwards tire Right lion. Gentleman sent
a despatch to Sir William A'Court, recommending to him
the course he should pursue in his friendly iniuence a itlk
the Spanish Minister. Li that despa'elt there was not
one word about alterations of the new institutions. Then
came the King of France's speech, which was the mast
important of all. Of that speech he would not attempt
to give any character. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Canning) had admitted that it struck at the root of the
British Constitution. That part of the King of France's
speech was no isolated sentence to be
.contradicted or
explained away by the construction of any other passe ;i•.
It was a conarmation of all that was previously written
and communicated to the Right lion. Gentleman. M.
Be Marcelltfls brought to the Right lion. Secretary of
Foreign Affairs a copy of the answer of M. Chateaubri-
and to a former note, transmitted by the Right Hue.
Gentleman. What would the House think that answer
was? A contradiction to the King's speech. No ; but
a formal demand after all that happened, of our direct
intervention with Spain. Did the Right Hon. Gentl,
wan demand an explanation of the King of I'r3nrA