The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-11-25 00:00:00

'W -
TM SPEAK. F.R was awry to Naimoli& the Itutmentais
Mutilate (Mr. li. ). It Le rout to rower,. hr a rwer.e of res.
weals. I...spine Is. that the pr. remilieslf last Moat were dm.
orillwris. Ai. ucs Wel the lime fer WWI hewer hi. ulterior
el. io ri-i. g ruight is,. Ur would Moe other appuirlisu.l4....
ast oe ii. lon oils err ii..t the time. No other sabjert
go"
Sae peredbare of the adjourned D.bute..--(Crles if Mr.
*Wen
' Mr. RUME said, he voted for the adjournment
id' llto Detente last night, because he bad good reg.
lams for-knowing that be. as well as other Hon.
.Gewelemea, had sot the subject folly betas* them.—
,ffrlsee be entered the House seatertisy, he did net is.
lewd to take any past In the present Debate, bet he
emiti net remain silent after the observations be
heard hoer the Noble Lord opposite (Cestiereagh),
sod from other Ilomerahle Members. He was de.
shoes to meet the asstrtient anti statements theism
net by the Noble Lord, and if the information, be
(Merilerwar) earreived was C.lffeCi. if the letters laid
open the table might be depended upon, the adjourn-
ment of last night world at 1•41, have this good effect:
it meld prune that the statements of the Noble
Lord (Castlereagh) acre net correct. In the coterie
of his speech, statements were made by that Noble
Lord, sad erne FFFFF es stated as facts, the correct-
ness of which be Whetted it meld be diligent( to
prove, sad the Noble Lord meld hue some *stela.
action to make to the House, If the papers laid upon
the table contained use truth. The subject stow im.
medietely before them was the Speech front the
Throe,. There were parts of it to which he could
not agree; but the could trot cinemas St leegth the
vesicles matters it embraced. Before he could assent
to the Address be should wish to hear one or two
paints satisfactorily explained. In the Speech it was
stated, that a spirit hostile to the Coestitetiou was
Omni Ile was sorry that such a spirit should be
abroad, but is should be consideeed from .bat source
it had ill rise, and whether any measures had been
taken for epplping a remedy. They were told last
Sessile, that it was abroad, bet no means were taken
to appease it. Had soy one act been does from
that period to the present, calculated le allay this
spirit, or to remove she causes from which it arose?
—lt was, therefore, eith as ill grace that these
words mre inserted in the Speech It now ap-
peared 'Mat she first mom adopted for eppeasing it
was an increase of the military force of the country.
In lime of profound peace, wilt en foreign enemy,
this was a strange measure. It was lamentable, in
passing through the country, to hese, in every town,
the din of leer, es if they *ere preparieg for an ar.
dams coolest. They were now going le add 14,000
men to their immense military force, and thereby is.
crease considerably the espendite re of the country.—
This was net the way to allay a spirit of discontent
sod insulroedinatinh. The 'military establishment
•weestresrly ten millions, end one of the m f
relief now proposed was to increase it. The peat
pis( of she Speech which appeared to him not pros-
e! was, that the etobatrassmeott of this comity were
owing to the embarrassments of otter Stairs. What
had the embarrassment of other cognitive to do with
the quiet and peace of this ? Their embarrassments
eneld not he traced to other States—not surely to
Franca. That country was in a high state of pro.
weepy and adeancemeet. She felt little or no embar-
rassment et a time ghee no country in lierope felt
mere of it then this. The resent distress of Eng-
land could nut by any most. of reasoning be referred
to other States. They arose from an immense load
of tasation, from want of Reform and economical
arrangement in every public department. The gees.
lien now was, shether the proposed amendment
should be adopted or not. lie requested that 'eery
Member in the House would consider to what the
amendment plerival him. Nothing could, in his
Mod, be more cunsistrot or proper ender existing
circumstances. It would indeed be a matter of ea.
rpm.. concern if the House shoal., sepirete that
skill a itlinet pledging itarif to enquiry Into the late
unfortunate events. The amendment did not call upon
them to prejudge a single fact. Th• y all knew that bees
were lost, and into the cause and cireorestances, en-
quiry was called for by the numerous and respectable
i holrelifiga, held net in one town or city, bet through.
net all parts of the country. Ile was sorry that
Ministers should feel it necessary to resist so ',sloe.
eble a request. That (louse was the fittest place for
enquiry, sad so good reason Wel stated for refusing
it is the coarse of last night's debate. If, as the
Noble Lord (Cast) h) stated, the Cicil Power
did eel direct the operations of the military at Man-
chester, what was the conclusion to be drawn, bet
that the people were placed that day under military
authority ? What world the Noble Loud say, if the
military, dies acting withal., authority, turned emend
end dispersed the Magistrates themselves? Ile would
so doubt say it was illegal. There ass no difference i
I. the eases. One was jest as illegal as the other.,
The Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had recourse to
several statements for the purpose of persuading the
House that the Meeting was illegal. and that from
what took place there, the Magistrates were justified
ha using military force to disperse it. In the !pliers,
however, laid upon the table, there did not appear
any thing to justify the measures adopted. From
them it appeared, that the current of the Slsais•
!rates was emoted without soy trouble. Thi•
was the statement of Mr. Norris. The Noble
Lard (Castlereagh) told them, that during the)
firm of the warrant the Riot Act nee read.
Upon so important a subject he could not admit
si proof the mere assertion of any individual. bow.
ever respectable. The Noble Lord would Kite him
leave to say that he (Mr. H.) had the statements of
many individuals, asserting that no such thing was
dons. The papers on the table made no mention of
it. The Noble Lord (C.) represented the Riot Acs
as having been read from a window, and said that
One of the Magistrates went into the frilled for the
purpose of reading it, but was borne down by the i
crowd. Nothing of this kind was said Its the woes
before alluded to. TM Noble Lord did net stets
the Rise of the Magistrate who acted is this maser,

ea the auseen of civil force by shish ha was at-
medal. From the statement of Mr. Nerds it would.
he hallooed, appeer, that Ole military first began to
act, sad thea the Riot Act was read. If read at all,
Scl beer should lane been allowed, as the low re.
golfed, before say attempts were made to disperse
the Meeting by force. One motive for his mooing an
adjournment last night was, benne be heard It llbre I.
by the Right lien. Galileo's. below him (lit •
Plunkett) that no person amid deny the illegality of.
the Mooing. Ile was desirous that an opportuoity
might be given for arguing this point, which could
ion bone rase without an adjoarnment Of thilkhys•
I The light Hoo. Gentlemen said, that either of four
inhales might tonsil's', so illegal Meeting—numbers.
devices. threats, and language. As to .umbers, 41
(Mr. II) did not see how a Meeting could be ren-
dered illegal by sorb a rorcooost•rocor. Row was the
oositter that constituted itlegality to be ascertained?
Ile defied ally person to point oat a state.. is chick
it was limited and precisely set down. Ile agreed
witting Right llonserable Gentleman in his praise
of the Coostiletion. Ile said eith truth, that it
afforded eget' protection in the rick and the poor,
bet that be disliked nemeroes Meetings of the lower
orders. Whatever inconvenience such asesibliui
might produce, the number i f which they were come
poised could Dot Is his (Mr. IL's) opinion, reader
them illegal. If this principle was sheitted, it meet&
give ri.e to the greatest absoulities. It was argued by
the Right lionmaratle Geotlemso (Mr. Pieaketi)
that the numbers at a Meeting might be so guest that
the civil power could not coerce them, surf that then
the military meat be called ie. Ile (Mr. 11) wool&
not allow that to be the Iso here, however it migh
be leo on the other Wee( the water. If the Meet-
t
ing at Manchester was illegal, all the other Meetings
of a similar nature held sloes were eqeelly al.—.
Twenty dinned met at Newcastle with banners es&
I .r. They went to the appeleted plea in snatching
older Proceeding thus regularly aud orderly wield
sot, he hoped, be made rend for accesatien.—.
Why not presence this Meeting as Hiegel as the
ether? If any acts were dens to rendrr the Man.
nester Meeting an illegal on, they ebeeld be preored•
Nothing of ibis kind was )et dame. lie at not, it
was true, read all the papers laid open the table—
[Hese ! front Ihe Ministerial Berreiresi —bet he read.
enevgh of them to rove in him, that, upon their
own showing, the Magistrates bad nothing to
warrant their proceeding'. Meetings had been bald
emberqssat to that which had takes pace at Mae.
ebeitee, mod whin, it was contended, wet illegal.—
lif they were so, why had not the offenders beets
brought forward and punitheil ? When 300 Pr 400.
of their fellow-subjects had been ',milord at d killed,
It was cot sufficient for the Noble Lord to say it was
net the act of the Magistrates of Manchester ; if nor.
whose act was it ? He would caution the Noble
Lord, and those who acted with him, sot to believe
all they heard. What reliance was the statement of
Mr. Norris entitled to ; who, ea khe l'ith of Aug.
proceeded to the Etchings at Manchester, and
,alarmed the inhabitants, by declaring that 15.000 Rs-
' dicals were approaching the town armed and resolved
to destroy it ? The lion. Member for Urantber had
stated last night, that it was the intention of the Ra-
dints at the Meeting at Manchester to keep posses.*
ision of the ground until midnight, end then to set
the town on fn... lie did not mean to say there was
no
danger, bat he could not believe it to be of the
ester' represented. Look to the Report that was
node last year of an intention to fire the metropolis.
1 If danger 'sister! was it to be removed by adding in.
'ehlt to injustice ? Was it not a notorious fact, that
Madre& of thousands could sot plovers subsistene„
lead that they were liahle In be seduced into mischief ?
sod be only oostalorral that obey bad mot been guilty
of sets of ei lence long view's/. As to the itinerant
1 'ear k I sod stators, they had been long since pipet.
dele)cefnrot
manichieety",
aiisiitillirtihenyi
hiliesimieediilosth4i,se
belsdpotritessucealsiol
Ministers. Could it be said there was any enmperi.
en between France, as it was previous to the Rev.-
lotion in that country, and England at the present
meant ? Ile would caution those Members who
were disposed to view the existing state of the country
with alarm, to notice in what manner the (*neuter
Petitions sad Addresses bad been obtained. lid the
blest publicity been given to their Meetings ? on the
contrary. Ile believed on his conscience, th II a go:
usral feeling was eutertained, that ii.j USII4 P had beets
committed. It bed been .aid that an entioiry coultl
not take place with renteiatoory et the bar of thug
House; but could not his Majesty's Almiaters ili..
tee a presreetiwi its be institated before some other
tribunal ? I'.r the sake i f she Magistrates, as well
as to rescue the military from the impotatiena that
had been ca.l span them, he frit himself bound to
support the Am..Amen'.
Lord CASTLEREAGH begged to explain. The
lion. Member had misreoretesited. or father hail
misendeistuod, he was inclined to believe, chat Is..
had stated Ism nieht. lie spent to say, that the mi-
litary acted is consequence of the attack thug had
been mule span tbfr Yeomanry ; .1.41 he maintained,
they were joitifiable is. reiwliing force by to,ce ;
lie haul not endritaken so e.ttailitrh the facts stated
by evidence, bat he had s right so repel assertion by
assertion., and to shield the %legiettary hone the es.
pensions not upon them. 141. would now ,liatiouctiy
say, that the military fowl acted wider the espies.
order' of the NI 441 r• 104. The NCI/ 111011 limit :--
A small corps. of about (..sty yromic •,ponweode,l
to the hosaings„ to encode the warren,
them; two of she Macietrates ware o
preopediegs from a Silldelt ; COIOSOIS
god Dalrymple were also present. ol-
manry setroundral, and in imminent
those Offirilf4 IlePtti with the M.lg
✓equoireil support to protect them 6
perdeee, the Magistrates ordered
act in there defence. Ills Make*
not formed their judgments from'

,ornsory, proceeds.%
arrant entrusted to
sere observing the
ulosels f: Estrange
thee saw the Yee.
rot ileoger; and as
lagistrates that they
Goo the fatty of the
red the onititsry to
sites Waivers hs I
I the ducsises., s .1
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