The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-04-12 00:00:00

Royal Institution,

of the Cr:ucifixion,
posited in tl,-

new gallery of

public to visit the institution we
Mr. Alderman BA no—

„.,;LA I' moved that permission be granted,
and was seconded by Mr. Alderman Turner, who stated that
Mr. Aspinall was ill or he would have attended to make the
proposition.
Some conversation arose as to the exact nature of the ap-
plication. and whether the loan of the picture might not be
granted for a year or two, but ultimately it was referred to
the Finance Committee.
HEALTH OF TOWN AND BUILDING REGULATIONS BILL.
The MAYOR read a long memorial from the owners of
cottage property in Liverpool, regarding certain clauses in
this bill, remarking that it did seem strange that, after they
had agreed to the bill, they should come, at the eleventh
hour, with this complaint against the council.
The council determined, after a little discussion, not to
entertain the memorial, as the cottage owners had had an
opportunity of examining the bill and expressed themselves
satisfied with it.

FREEMEN'S APPRENTICES.
The TOWN-CLERK read his report on the enrolment of
indenture of apprenticeship for the freedom of. the borough :
" The Town-clerk begs to draw the attention of the coun-
cil to the by-law, passed many years since, for requiring the
enrolment of indentures of apprenticeship within three
calendar months after their execution, in order to entitle the
apprentice to the freedom of the borough ; and to the many
applications that have been made to the council to allow
such indentures to be enrolled after the expiration of the
three months, on the ground that the parties had been
ignorant that apprenticeship to a freeman for seven years
still have a right to the freedom to the extent of the par-
liamentary franchise.
" The Town-clerk submits that the frequency of these in-
dulgencies on applications on the ground of ignorance, which
must mainly depend on the. assertion of the party, goes
materially to affect the object of the"by-law, which was to
prevent the fradulent ante-dating of the indentures ' • and the
Town-clerk therefore suggests that notice of the law as to
the parliamentary franchise should be publicly given ; and,
that after six months from such notice being published, no
apprentices, on the ground of ignorance of the law, should be
admitted to have their indentures enrolled.
" Town-hall, April 6, 1842."
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE stated that a general opinion pre-
vailed that, by the passing of the reform bill, the freemen of
the town were abridged of many of their former privileges
which they would now have if they were to pursue the proper
course. The only privilege which they had lost was that
which enabled their descendants to claiM immunities from

town dues.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE moved that notice should be given
of the by-law.
Mr. BOLTON objected, and said that many wise and influ-
ential men were of opinion with him, that there was no rea-
son in these privileges. They gave no notice to county vo-
ters, and he did not see why they should do so to those within
the borough.
The TOWN-CLERK said an apprenticeship to a freeeman
gave a parliamentary vote, but not a municipal vote, nor ex-
emption from town dues. The young freemen might claim
by birth, whose fathers were freemen at the time of the pass-
ing of the reform bill.
Mr. COOPER thought two months' notice was insufficient,
and recommended that it should be extended to six months.
Agreed to, and directed to be inserted once iu every paper.
THE EDUCATION QUESTION.
Mr. Alderman EVANS, after a few preliminary remarks,
proceeded to bring forward the motion of which he hadtiven
notice—" That the inspectors appointed by the council of
education, acting under government authority, be invited, at
their own convenience, to inspect the schools of the corpo.
ration." He said this motion was a perfectly independent
one, and quite unconnected with any other that had been or
might be brought before the council. He would remind them
that a council of education existed under the crown, which
had appointed inspectors over the whole country, whose
business it was to arrange the buildings and the management
of those schools for public instruction which were carried on
by government aid. These inspectors had received orders not
to confine the exercise of their experienee and conduct
merely to one class of schools, but, when required by schools
of independent character to give them the benefit of their
knowledge and experience. They bad made many reports to
the council and bad acquired a most prodigious quantity of
information regarding general education in this and other
countries. By calling it, their aid and ar'
would by no means compromise the

the counc

1 character or imle-
hoots. They

pendence of Liverpool, themselves, or the
had directions to render their assistance whenever requires,
and on no account, by word or deed, to do anythinv *-

pair the authority of trustees, governors, parents, U.
masters. In their capacity general officers were sometimes
called upon to review regiments without having any autho-
rity over them, and in some provincial schools it was the
practise for university fellows to examine the pupils. At the
school where he (Alderman Evans) was educated, a fellow of
the College, of Dublin regularly came down to their examina-
tions. It was quite obvious that periodical visits from men
of their knowledge and position would have a beneficial effect
over the governors, masters, and scholars of every school.
Nothing could be more calculated to arouse attention and
alarm, sensibility as to blame or praise—nothing more likely
to stimulate zeal and incite to new efforts. It might be ob-
served that no time had been given for the trial of the new
system ; but he maintained that in the progress of change,
when they came to such a crisis as the present, they were
bound to call in the best qualified to give advice, and put
them in the right way. One of his friends, the member for
West Derby, at the close of the discussion on Wed-
nesday, had made a pathetic appeal to the other side'
to abstain in any way from agitating further the school
question. He would ask, wJio were the real agita-
tors ? They had schools in which the children of all deno-
minations of professing Christians received a good, moral,
sound. and religious education. Whence came, then, .all
the disorder now observable? Children were flitting from
the schools ; their parents were alarmed ; the masters and
mistresses were in difficulty ; and now the council was asked
to forbear observations, when every week brought acts of a
still further agressive nature. :Recently the town had reason
to be proud of the schools. Liverpool was looked up to for
a model throughout the country for schools uniting religion,
morality, and secular education ; and if inspection was re-
fused, it could be looked on in no other light than as a con-
fession that those schools wers deteriorating. It might be
asked, " Why was there not a demand for inspection before ?"
In point of tact there was no apparent necessity for it ; yet
the former committee invited evrybody to come to the
schools ; and if it had occurred to them they would, no doubt,
have been glad of this inspection. They had nothing to con-
ceal, but were anxious that all persons should view their pro-
ceedings. He could not conceive upon what ground the pre-
sent committee could object to inspection, but should think
they would desire it above all things ; and therefore, he had
brought forward this motion. He produced the printed re-
ports of the inspectors, which he recommended to the perusal
of the new committee, as containing a mass of valuable infor-
mation. No committee seeking to subvert one system and
establish another would be justified in rejecting it ; and the
necessity for it was more evident when two parties so widely
differed.
Mr. Alderman Bue.LEY, after a few remarks condemna-
tory of the present system of the Education Committee, and
betraying an evident opinion that the proposition to call in
the government inspectors was calculated to obstruct the
working of that system seconded the motion of Mr. Evans.
Mr. Alderman Nicol, observed that when he saw the
notice of motion on the paper, he was not only much sur-
prised at its nature, but that it should have been placed there
by Alderman Evans. Both in the Council and in the Dock
Committee he had seen him standing up for the pre-eminence
of Liverpool, had heard him speak of its intelligence and the
wonders it had performed, and knowing how unwilling and
incapable he always had professed himself to be to bring for-
ward any question from factious motives, he was surprised
to find him proposing a motion which left an inference that
a town, capable of such wonders, with a council so discrimi-
nating, intelligent, and well informed, should be unable to
do what almost any schoolmaster might do—to teach a child
to read and write, and say its prayers. (Hear, hear-) He
thought at first that the worthy alderman had brought the
question forward as a good joke, and that when he found that
he was serious, lie would have shown some great incapacity
on the part of the committee to conduct the schools, but he
had not given a single satisfactory reason why the motion
should be carried. Alderman Evans talked largely of the
change that had been made. It was not for him (Mr. N.) to
say whether that change was advantageous or otherwise. It
was sufficient that the counsel had over and over again re-
solved that the new system should be pursued, and the com-
mittee had carried forward their intentions in the most up-
right manner. These schools had no government grant, and
it would be quite supererogatory, therefore, for the inspec-
tors to report to the council, and no other body had a right
to require any report. No longer ago than Wednesday last,
the council had confirmed the determination which they bad
so often previously expressed. If Alderman Evans would
take a survey of the works at the new docks, he would find

that there Was some disorder while the improvements were

there would of necesst
-9 -
in consequence of the alterations. He was not suffered,
though on the Dock Committee of Works, to see them-until
they were completed, and until the schools were ready for
inspection neither government, nor any other, inspectors
would have any right there.
Mr. Alderman BULLEY remarked that they were ready.

going on there

—Yes

but there's nothing worth

Mr. Alderman EARLS
seeing in them.
Mr. Alderman Nicol, went on to contend that this was
nothing more nor less than a continuance of those discus-
sions with which the council had been treated during the last
six months; and which were not only annoying to indivi-
duals, but discreditable to that chamber, and to the town of
Liverpool. Looking on Alderman Evans's motion as in-
tended to renew them, and considering that it was due to the
Education Committee to permit them to carry the repeated
resolutions of the council into effect, he should move as an
amendment, " That this council cannot entertain any pro-
position which has for its object avowed opposition to the
system now in operation in the corporation schools, until the
Education Committee shall have reported the completion of
their arrangements, and announced to this council that the
new system is in full practical working operation in
the
schools

—a. BUSHELL rose to second the amendment. He had
just taken the opportunity to put down upon paper three
reasons why the committee should not submit to the proposed
inspection. In the first place, he deemed the motives which
induced the motion exceedingly questionable. However
plausibly it might have been brought forward, looking at the
party from whom it had come, it was evidently intended to
throw difficulties in the way of carrying out the views of the
council. Secondly, there were clergye n e and laymen in Li-
verpool sufficiently numerous, and quite capable and willing
to undertake the duty of inspection. And, thirdly, the in-
spectors appointed by the council of education were wedded
to a particular system, which this was intended to supersede.
But why did Alderman Evans now come forward with the
motion according to his own account; He said he thought
inspection was desirable now there had been a change in the
system. There had been a change before, and
he was a
strong party to it ; but he never called for inspection till the
change was from a system which he approved, to one he did
not like. He thought it would get a condemnation of the
present plan from the government inspectors, and in some
measure overthrow it. Was the council, six weeks after it
had appointed a new head master, going to stultify them-
selves by entertaining this proposition before the forms were
arranged ? Were they going to invite condemnation while
the schools were in disorder? All these motions had the
same origin and one object—to throw impediments in the
way of the new system. He (Mr. B.) for on
consent to an alteration, until he was satisfiel, never would
that the new
system was not as good as the old one, and many months
.must elapse before this could be. discovered.
He would be a
himself and his friends, that they would not date He
t 1
cal working of the new system until their opponents ceased
their opposition.

Mr. ROBERTSON GLADSTONE called the attention of the
council to an expression which had fallen from Mr. Yates.
What did that gentleman mean by the " disgraceful conduct"
of the Education Committtee ? Because the committee were
anxious to discharge their duty conscientiously, was that
matter of.discrbrace ? He himself would never permit such
language to be applied to a body to which he belonged.
Mr. YATES denied that he had used the term,* amidst cries
of you did" from several members. He was ready, how-
ever, to acknowledge that he had meant no personal offence.
Mr. GLADSTONE.--Mr. Yates should make use of such
language out of the council, and then gentlemen would know
how to reply to it.
M. YATES retracted the words, and the subject dropped.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE said, if he thought the motion had
been one of peace, he should not have objected to it ; but
looking at it as one of the various strategies practised by the
opposition, he should oppose it. The schools were at present
in their infancy as regarded the new system. They were in
a state of comparative disorganisation the masters were
untried and unacquainted with each other ; but he had no
doubt the system would succeed. Though they were not so
full as they had been, they were filling daily, and would soon
be favourable for inspection. He was satisfied that the sys-
tem was a sound, moral, and religious one ; and he hoped
that inspection would settle the public mind. He deprecated
the interference of the government inspectors. They might
come there and publish, but the corporation was capable of
managing its own affairs, though be regretted it had ever any
thing to do with education, except to encourage others to
establish schools. Yet, as it was connected with it, he would
not permit any interference. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) The
quettion had been forced upon the council from day to day,
until it had become a nuisance. Mr. Alderman Earle had
better, therefore, pursue his agitation out of doors. A por-
tion of the council were soon again to be tried by the con-
stituency, and the more the question was discussed amongst
them the worse for Mr. Earle's party, whilst nothing had
strengthened his opponents so much.
Mr. BOLTON said the present system was not one which
could be approved of by high and enlightened minds, and it
was absolutely necessary to agitate against it. A question
of right was never decided by numbers. The schools under
the late system had been visited and approved of by many
eminent men. The Bishop of Norwich had visited them,
and expressed his unqualified approbation of them. He
himself had wished that no obstruction to the present system
had been offered until after the midsummer holidays. He
should, however, give the present motion his support; and,
after the midsummer holidays, be should move that such a
modification of the present system should take place as
would allow the catholics to enter the schools.
Mr. PRIESTLEY recommended that the schools should be
left open for inspection.
Mr. J. LAWRENCE said it showed how the last speaker
attended to his duties on the committee when he did not
know that such was the case.
Mr. Alderman MOLYNEUX had never objected to inspec-
tion. It was only the other day when a very eminent gen-
tleman visiting Liverpool was desirous of going through the
schools, and he (Mr. M.) not only accorded the permission
asked for, but offered to accompany the visitor. He would,
if the inspectors of the government board made the same
request, be happy to go with them, and afford them every
information ; but he would not invite them, as they were
asked to do by this motion.
Mr. FREME must take the opportunity of explaining the
grounds upon which he should give his vote against the pro-
position of Mr. Alderman Evans. The particular system
adopted in the schools had no interest for him. He would
not quarrel about details. He took no interest in anything
except the broad question, and was inimical to the present
motion, because he thought it was likely to throw obstacles
in the way of that question being favourably considered.
There were many persons of influence amongst the party
opposed to the late Education Committee, who were `already
beginning to shew a disposition to go with them upon this
question ; and the present motion would, he was confident,
tend more to disgust such parties than to bring about any
favourable results.
Mr. Alderman EVANS said, that as no other gentleman
appeared desirous of speaking against his motion he would
briefly notice the observations which had been offered against
it. And, first, he would address himself to Mr. Nicol. He
could find nothing new in the grounds which that gentleman
urged, for all that he had brought forward had already been
before the public. The same course of argument had been
used in the columns of a local newspaper,—(the Alderman
alluded to an article which appeared in the LIVERPOOL
STANDARD of Tuesday last,)—and was wholly untenable.
For what was there derogatory to the intelligence of Liver-
pool
qiunersetsioorrtinstotle advice of the Education Board upon
this
y be at the schools I

He did not ask those gentlemen to come here
to dictate to the committee, but to inform them. That board

'was a living arsenal of information ; and he wantedthe com-
mittee to have the best information and advice, and the pro-
per time for them to have that advice was before they had
completed their system. How had the Dock Committee
done ? Why, they had consulted the best authorities in the
kingdom upon the management of their docks. They had
gone to London and consulted Mr. Hall and others, and
examined the system at the West India and St. Catherine's
DoCks. And there was nothing derogatory in the Education
Committee, upon the same principle, having the advice of
the Education Board. He had no intention to obstruct the
proceedings of the committee. It had been asked of him
why the former Education Committee had not been asked
for the same inspection. He found, however, on referring
to the report in his hand, that the inspectors under the board
were not appointed until 1840.

A brief discussion ensued as to the effect of the resolution,
and the Town-clerk having declared that if carried it would
displace the original motion without its being further sub-
mitted to the vote, Mr. FREME stated, that although he
would have voted against the original motion he must also
vote against the amendment.
The council then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it ........ _ •• • • 137

The amendment was ycarried.
The following gentlemen voted in the division—
For the arnendment—Thothas Shaw, F. Shand, R. Hough-
ton, J. Edwards, R. B. B. H. Blundell, T. Sands, E. Rae,
J. Lawrence, T. Robinson, J. Cooper, J. N. Wood, R.
Gladstone, C. Bushell, J. Proctor, R. Bright, J. Kil-
shaw, J. Parker, T. Brassey, G. H. Lawrence, S. L. Trot-
man, R. Harbord, R. Houghton, W. Nicol, J. Bramley-
Moore, E. Molyneux, R. S. Crook, and the Mayor.
Against it—W. Thornhill, W. Preston, Henry Holmes,
T. Bolton, R. Briht, J. Priestley, R. V. Yates, J. Platt,
T. Bailey, W. P. Freme, E. Evans, T. B. Barclay, and W.
Earle

The TOWN-CLERK, on being consulted, gave it as his opi-
nion that the amendment displaced the original motion.
Mr. BUSHELL, on the part of the conservatives, intimated
their determination to bring it forward whenever any discus-
sion should be raised upon the school question.
Mr. PLATT withdrew his notice of motion—
" That a special committee be appointed to take into con-
sideration the propriety, or rather the necessity, of having
two additional schools, one on the south and the other on
the north district of the town, for the accommodation of the
lower classes, (of which the catholics form a considerable
part,) and to give them a good secular education, but no re-
ligious instruction.'

*The fact that Mr. ates did use the language in question
is denied by the Chronicle, and reiterated by the Albion,
whose' reporter, however, was not present. We distinctly
heard the words alluded to, however, and took them down ;
and it was the opinion of the majority of the Council that
they had been used.