The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-06-13 00:00:00

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IAWERIAL PitabIAMENT. . •

HOUSE OF •LORDS..—TittnteDe`te
1 Seemed private fills were brought up from the How se
6. .
V,OOllOOllll by Mr. le..Riee. Mr. Kennedy, and others.
• ' -111bie Duke of SOMERSET brought up and laid on tht
table the Report of the Select Committee on Weights ant
Lord DACRE-preseuted t petition from the Cherchward-'
.tas god Oreeseeril et the meth of St. Luke, praying that
facilities might be afforded to Roman Catholics in regard'
itolkeeoleleraitiOn of marriages among themselves.—Laid on'
the table.
IRISH JOINT TENANCY BILL.
The Marquess of LANSDOWN moved that this Bill be
committed. At the-same time he thought it necessary to
'weatil some remarks with a view of correcting a great error
that had gone ovmad respecting the nature and object of it.
It was suppose.' that the Bili weetto disfranebise a
great number of freeholders in Ireland. Now be could
aware the House, that it wbuld not take away a single
right of voting from any Individual in fretted, nor would it
take away wren the fraction of a vote.
The Bill was then committed, and ordered to be reported
*Gro 'TH
w.
ES OF E CROWN
LAND AND PEACE IN IRE-
... .
• ' This Iltarquess of LANSDOWN moved thst the Irish
Grand Jury Bill be committed. He would take that oppom
*salty of noticing some objections that had been made to It
by a.liroble Friend of his, who was then absent —This Bill
'tied been Ltrodueell into Parliament last year. and had
been three months under the Consideration of the other
Muse. it had been agreed to ak a meeting of all the Irish
Members of AIR Mouse. One greet object of it was, to fix
tee salaries of Clerks of the Peace and Clerks of the Crown
in Ireland, instead of allowing Grand Juries to grant them
remuneration by levying money on the people. It was in- I
traded to take away this power from lite Oraud Juries,
which 'they had derived from I Acts of Parliament.
These Acts empozered Grand Juries to grant fees, and en-
der that system the most unequal remunerations took plate..
itlany of tbe. Duties were performed by ^Deputies tied
many .Clerks of. the Peace had received remunerations so
large. Aq to be equal to that of the Lord Chief Jostles, of
friennit. Out of forty %Clerks of the Peace, ten only bad
objected to the provision of this Bill ; the others were sada-
d with the Bit! as it now .stooe. Only ten petitioned, and'
their Lord.hips must be convinced that the majority of the
_Clerks were satisfied. The emoluments of these Clerks
weredaken from the poorest and most distressed tenantry
of Ireland ; and the proposition now made was to allow a
fair salary to these persons. fie saw the petition of the
Clerks, and he saw nothing in it that could hold out the
slighest pretence of their having a vested interest in their
fens or emoluments. Whatever fees they took were derived.
solely from the astliority of an Act of Parliament, which
did not create any vested interest, and the parties had no
sight to come before that House to claim these emoluments
as vested interests. It was concluded by the Members of
.the other. House of Parliament that the provisions of the
present Bill gave a fair and adequate remuneration to the
Irish Clerks of the Peace and the Crown.
The Earl of DONOUGH MORE said it had been thought
St to apply to the other House for information on this Bill,
land no answer whatever was given, to the application.—
,Their Lordships had not since bad soy information on it.--
H a knew it was not true, that the majority of the Clerks of the
Peace in Ireland were satisfied with this measure ; on the
contrary they all considered it as likely to be moat injurious
to their interests. Now as he thought their Lordships were
' not sufficiently acqualuted with the nature of this m
he hoped they would grant a little time for allowing It to be
Wien int, consideration. Here the Noble Earl quoted the
opinion of a Counsel declaring that the Clerks of the Peace
Ireland had a vested interest in their fees and emolument,.
Jfe also quoted some Acts of Parliament to prows the same
porot: Ile thought the Bill an excellent one, because It cur-
t iled the mischievous power of the Grand Juries of Ire-
., land. He atlaiireil the Bill as coming from the Honour-
able Baronet in'the other Honer, who had formed such.
.correct notions on all subjects; hot he wished that time
'might be allowed to enable their Lordshiprto see Wise-
'thee the part of the Bill to which lie alluded be just or
not. It seemed that the Homer of Commons wonld not
I.ave eny,suggestion on this Bill, or allow any alterations
to be made in it, because it was one of those which came
tinder the description of Money Bills. His Lordship now
proceeded to point out several inconsistencies in the pro-
visions by which the salaries of clerks in several counties
were fixed to specific sums; and, in order to show the ab-
soi iity of the measure, the emoluments of the Clerks of
the Crown were increased, while those of the Clerks of
the Peace, who had a great deal more duty to perform,
were curtailed. He did not want to postpone this Bill
;to deaf Session, nor to throw it out, but to allow time to
teas egittence respecting the claims and the duties of the
' coral Lining Parties. This Bill also interfered with the
fres of Sherilts, and if it passed, it would not be worth any
hswan's
observationst the Noble Lord moved that the Com-
seittee on the Bill be put off till Monday next.
The Earl-of LIMERICK contended that the present
state of Ireland called for the adoption of this measure;
'for the system of Grand Juries in that unfortunate coun-
try was one of the chief causes of the evils and outrages
that took place there. Within a few months past a Clerk
-of the Peace in one county made presentments to the
amount of 600 f. for extra ditties in carrying on proem-
rims against disturbers of the public peace ; and it was
nAretsary to make some provision for checking the power
of Gland Juries in complying with such enormous de-
n:ends as those.
Lord LORTON objected to that part of the Bill, which
went to curtail the emoluments of the Clerks of the
• Peace.
The Earl of GOSFORD observed, that the Clerks of
the Pima*, and the Clerks of the Crown were put to
great expense, . and their emoluments ought not to be
curtailed too much. But he approved of the principle of
the Bill ; and would support it, provided an Act were in-
troduced next Session for regulating the salaries of those
persons.
The Marquess of LANSDOWN said, lie hail no objec-
tion to the suggestion of the Noble Earl ; and he should
be ready to support any Bill brought beat Session which
'should go to regnlete the whole of this system in Ireland/
and place it on a proper footing. •
The Earl of DUNOUOHMORE replied, that this was •
a bed and unjust Bill, and ought not to pass in thesbape
in which the grandees of the House of Commons had
drag n it out.
• The Earl of LIVERPOOL did not pretend to possess
any local knowledge of Ireland, nor to now whether the
aviaries proposed in this Bill were adequate or deg-
cleat. But the object of this Bill was as take away'
.frost Irish Grand Juries the power they possessed of giv-
ing away the public money. The principle of the Bill
was correct, and hr thought it ought to pass over with its
present imperfecionr, whitit might be remedied in the
next Svssion. It was possible that the Clerks of the
Peace might have a vested interest in their places, bat
• they certainly could not have any in the amount of their
. fees and emoluments: "and these it was in the power of
Parliament to regulat He had no objection to the post-
. p 'Dement of this iiill until Monday, saw to give those
who petitioned against it an opportunity of being heard'
:it tile b kr.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the parties
were entitled to be heard at the bar on the question,
whether they bad a vested interest or not. if it should
. turn out that they had no rested rights, it was stilt proper
to bear what they bad to allege.
Lord REDESOA LE said the principle of the Bill did
net interfere with any but Grand Juries which had the
power of raising money. It was his opinion that under
the present Bill the Clerk, of the Peace would receive a
lair and ample compensation, although not so much as the
Grand Juries might gin them. He did not see what
vest-4 right or tenure they had in their offices; but 811
to
their salarips,theParliameer had a right to regulate them;
• still that House ought sot to pass this Bill without