The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-03-21 00:00:00

unparlismentary, if he now vet timed to
mcud to his Right Honourable Friend, a

the confidential advisers of his Majesty, t:.
Your to remove the obstacles to this Bill in ano-
ther place, and to attain; if possible, his Majesty's
consent to its admission fend disgusaion it, the.other
HOuse. The Hon. Zlember concluded by moving
for leave to bring in the Bill.
The•CH ANCELLOR.. of, the EXCHEQUER
said, he felt no ilispwitieri of hostility to the
motion or his lion. Friend, nor any wish to
throw obstacles in the way of the Bill. At the
same time, he declared that the principle now
avowed by the Hon. Member, namely, that of
making the Bill a temporary measure, was one the
must likely to- obtain for it success, and therefore
it was that he had recommended this line of pro.
,seeding. He had always thought it improper to
appoint to such reversions while the Committee of
Finance continued to sit, and if it should be
deemed right to abolish, upon their recommenda-
tion, any offices on the demise of the present oc.
eupiers or possessors, of course no reversions
would be assigned, and the Bill, so far as it re.
lated to such particular appointments, would be
unnecessary. He should not object to the mo-
tion of his lion. Friend for leave to bring in the
Bill, reserving to himself the right of moving in
the Committee on the Bill an amendment of the
title in these words, " for a time to be limited.'!
With respect, however, to the advice given him
by his. Honourable Friend, 'as one of his Majes.
ty's Ministers, touching the counsel it might be
his duty to give his Majesty upon the subject of
this Bill,- although he considered it by no means
unparliementary, or Improper, for his [legume"'
able Friend to suggest to him that advice, yet it
would his extremely improper for hint to declare
In that Home, whafthe advice might be which he
should feel* his duty to offer to his Majesty else.l
where.-4.,eave was given to bring in the Bill.
Sir cIIARLES POLE rose fdr the purpose
of adverting to an injustice which bad taken
place in the naval service. He would not use
harsh language on the occasion, since he was fully
convinced that the act of injustice arose merely
from ignorance and inadvertency. lie would now
state to the House the grounds on which he meant
to trouble them. Some papers would be necessa.::
ry to elucidate his statement, and for these he pro.
j,osed to move ;. the first were letters that had,
passed between Admiral Montague and the First
Lord of the Admiralty : those letters would shew,
that at the very moment when the Admiral's son
was refused examination, other officers had pass-
ed, one of whom was immediately appointed a
Lieutenant. Mr. Montague's actual time of pre-
vious service was out in August, when, if he had
passed, he would have been a Lieutenant in tlee.
Mediterranean fleet. For this injury there was
now no remedy, unless his commission was ante-
dated. He would next call for a letter from Lord
Collingwpod, shewing,
.that at that time a com-
mission was vacant for Mr. Montague. He
would not trouble the House with- any detail, as
he had heard that a remedy was intended in the
pretent case; but before he sat doirii,• he felt
that-he was only doing his duty to press upon them
the occurrence of the same unintended injury to
others on distant services ; for instance, there must
he many similar situations among • (Akira serving
iii .the &At and West Indies. It could.not be
known there, that the regulations of the new li
Naval College, though they originates! in 1806,
dill not folly apply till 1808 ; and to make it im.
possible to have any further doubt upon the sub.
jest, he would now move an Address to his Ma.
jesty, that the Ninth Article of the 2d chapter of
Naval Istritetion, of December. 1806, he trans.
mitted to all Captains on forejgn stations, and all
Boards, and others connected with the examina-
tion of officers ; and also that such other porta of
the code as were applied to examination should*
selected and transmitted. Yet lie- felt that the
remedy fiat the peculiar case of 'which he spoke,
would come so much better from the Admiralty,
that on an assurance or that remedy's being in-
tended, he shtoilil tint press the question.
. Mr. ROBERT WARD thanked the Honours.
hie Baronet for the mildness with which he
brought forward hie motion, `but conceived that
with reference to the papers Which. he mentioned,
they ought to have been brought forward before
the House could adopt any specific motion ; but
to -save any misconception he would narrate the
matter hi its progress. By an Order of Council,
so long since us 1773, any Officer, after serving
three yeaCS at the Portsmouth Naval Academy,
and three-years on sea, was entitled to be ex-
amined for a higher rank. By the new code
the time at school. was not defined by years,
but a certain- course of education was to be
fully Arnie through, and after that four years
were to be served at' sea befOre an examination
could be given. .le happened that just a month
before the enactment of the new order, the old one
had passed the Council, in the routiue of business.
TM' siiii in ISO& The Lards of the Admiralty.
did .not give full being to the new Academy, so
as to. abrogate the old, till 1808; thus the two
were in being together, but the laws of service in
each were still applying to different classes of per.
mots. An order was issued to prevent mistakes on
this point, and guarding to those who served under
the-old rules, (heir privilege of passing after three
years service at sea. At this time Mr. Montague
presented himself to the examining Captains on the
Mediterranean station ; (hey, conceiving. them.
selves to be acting under the new code, would not
examine him on less than four yews' satiric. Ad.,
•• miral Montague applied to lord Mtolgeave,• with
the zeal becoming a father—his Lordship laid the
case before the Admiralty Counsel, and it was pro-.
nounced by . him inadmissible. Lord Mulgrave,
ifeeling the case-one that pressed on the iiitlividual,
I requested Admiral Montague to make his own
statement, and snhmit it to the Counsel.- . It was
I snbrnitted, and the same judgment passed on it es
before—still every effort was mede to draw up the
latent justice of the thing, 11114 a case was drawn.
tip by himself (Mr, Ward), which was laid hefore
the Attorney and Solicitor General, The day on
which the Honourable aerostat' gam noticp of his
motions tat before the opinion wee asesemad team
Illgff 14wyers—aa4 II; Mr. Ward) 'OO Wen

A ,

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advise his postponing it ; in
for. his plain course would
motion be made, and then
state to the House, that rho papers were still be.
fore Counsel., Itwas but two days ago, that the
opinion of Otiunsel was given iq favour of
Montaget's claim ; and at that time Lord Mel.
grave tank saeeasion to say, that he would have
great pleasure in him to be examieed,
with a priority of date, corresponding to the time
at which his examination should have taken place.
Some cases had boeo mentioned of others, to whom
no deley had occurred. From the tenor of the
Honourable Baronet's language, he was convinced,
that there was an idea of imputing the difference
to malice or partiality—but they passed, merely
because the rules had been bettor known at home
than abroad ; and if Mr. Montague's claim had
been disallowed finally, they should at once have
I returned to their original rank. An officer of the
name of Jenkinson had passed, and since gut a
lieutenancy, but this was merely because at the
Navy Office they had not the same scruples as ill
the Mediterranean. lie hoped that now the
statement had been laid plainly before the frouse,.
no misconception could exist upon the subject.
Admiral MARKHAM was surprised at thews.
scrtion of his Honourable Friend, that the Admiel
ralty was nut in the habit of investigating I.
grounds upon Which certificates were granted lir.
the Navy Board. On the contrary,. such an seb.
Lamination was the peculiar duty of Or Admirallyi
land he could affirm, that it was a duty never over.
looked uppn any application for promotion, while.
he had the honour of being ar Member of that
Board. The appointment of Jenkiitson upon the
11th of December, so soon after his examination
on the 7th, *as naturally calcolgted to excite con.
versation flat of doors, where the refusal of Mr.
Montague's. promotion was much talked o.r, and
particularly in consequence of souse difference
that was known to exist bet Ween the First Lord
of the Admiralty and Admire! Montague, the fa.
ther of the gentleman alluded to in the motion.
The lion. Officer ()contended, that there was nu
Order in Council thet warranted the demand of
four years service afloat, to qualify for a Liente.
riving. This probably was an arrangement of the
First Lord of the Admiralty, who was known to
be very forward to act for himself ,on subjects of
which he could -know little or nothing, and who,
in the case under discussion, refereed to lawyers,
instead of referring to his professional colleagues.
Indeed, it was understood, that •in this Cat
the First Lord took a course directly opposite
to the npanimous opinion of all his professional
colleagues. If this were not the fact, he called
upon the Secretary of the Admiralry to deny it.
-As to the proposed grant of-a commission to Mr.-
Montague, with a prior date, this was a very novel
proteeding. Ile remembered a similar measure
having been proposed to Sir Philip Stephens; and
-although the claim of justice was peculiarly strong,
:that officer resisted it upon the ground, that if
each a precedent were estplished, it was difficult
to say to ivhat k might lead, and upon what va.
rious pretences conamissions might be ante-dated.
To guard against the operation of such pretences—
to provide that entitle influence should not be
lowed to interfere with the fair system of promo-
tion in the navy, the lienourabic Officer strougly
rectimmended,- that the ante-Aating of the coin.
mission in this instance should be accompanied by
a special minute, calculated to answer that end.
. Mr. WARD explained.
Mr. CROKER vindicated the conduct of the
Atlniiralty, and denied that there was in any par.
sox belonging to that Board any -disposition of
hostility towards Admiral Montague. We (said
Mr. Coker) referred his case to our Counsel, Mr.
Jervis ; his opinion was against the claims of Ad-
miral ontague. fre.then (continued Mr. franker)
called upon the gallant Admiral to tarnish use
with his own statement of his, own cape, drawn up
by his own hand ; the gallant Admiral did so. The
last- statement given hr was referred by ut to the:
Attorney and Solicitor General ; their opinion was
in favour of the young MR'S • time. Gentlemen
then must see that it could be a question of nu or.
Binary difficulty wheat three Counsel of such great
professional authority differed upon its merits:—
We (said Mr. C.) did not think- fit. to decide upon
it ourselves, not being all of us professions! men.
Some of us were, to be sure, ward immediately
connected with the navy as a :profession than
others of us were—me were not all lawyers, and
therefore we thought It expedient to refer the ease
to legal opinion. A gallant Admiral (Merkham)
opposite to me (observed Me.'Croker) has thrown
out a broad insinuation, as if' all the professional
Lords of the Admiralty differed generally from the
opinioes of the First Lord. The gallant Admiral
had even asked me if I could deny it ? I do deny.
it; and this I take. to be a SUISCOiIt iiil6lVt:f to the
question put to me by the ;Omit Admiral. The
Honourable Gentleman then proceeded et some
length to contend with great searesils, 114 Ihcy,
.the. Admiralty, were well
_digitised towards Ad.
miral Montague, and well inefinertigialt. hiFit
every favour they could. There was not a par.
son at the Board that did not feel se disposed tu.
wards the gallant 'Admiral.
, Mr. WHITBREAD said, that one would ima-
gine from the great warmth the lion. Gentleman
hail displayed, that he differed all the time from
11 those who supported the present motion. There
had been no intention of charging the Admiralty
with any hostility .towards Admiral Montague. I
The lion. Gentleman had told them that they were
not all latryers at the Board of Admiralty. Thiel
I certainly was 'comfortable intelligence in these
times, when official departments mere so over-run
with lawyers: the First Lersi, of the Treasury a
Dwyer, the Chancellor of the Exchequer a
lawyer; a Seeretiry of State a lawyer, and the
Secretary of the Admiralty lawyeas. There were
towyers enough in all
who were strangers to!.-
Gentleman's prunnnelatiee,
he had rather singular
*hat was not prefessienek
ran bats • mato ma much sif
rofeetitinal Merl [a Osage
(isitbread). believed
viereo"--

, •

into a
Warmidtewireleeno:
Gentleman had entered
was altogether unnecessary, of himself a
Board of Admiralty, no matter which, fne !Ll*
lieu. Gentleman had done the Baird the inn-r '4l
identifying them with lihnself. spoke
as the First Lord of the Admiralty might; IV
bin certainly would nut; 'and as if he had etl,--'
himself at least tine of the Lords,
SO 46 we did
eitigthcia:itoeuttro
not
tbd
ibeerle,nit
dth anti:
on" ;
opinions, and our otdr-rs, 'our Counsel, anirt
casooltn.e.e
ipilirterott
ebitlisiscouen.rs,e.',,
He h
ad been the meads of em."—
vcrling a venerable old Gentleman, fir who.
(Mr. Whitbread) had great respect, into a 0.11;
and enterprising sea officer, and Major certttil
that was of his Majesty's army, was then, ere
log to the Honourable Gentleman, a rising imis.'"
tenant of the Royal Navy ; nor had the 0/171.1
exertions of the Honourable Gentleman sinpw''
twoi
bitthh
rot:het:to itvhoi(n)icg.E died
a ticil
replied,tw amteoinrlormacewtisohal egkuafl::eiv,inith a n
iteagridi)
je:tokthhessaba,etotffari:ll:riaiitcriiia.,:ktbice
14tie
to promote them if ho was to raise the dead
was
—for
[A laugh.)
time at a loss to make out what the Bin,. ceeear.
to
fonatfeliatenin:
c/bilryoomini imputing
in; but he
fore he must forgive him, though the joke *as not
after all, a very good one. At the same time h:
mutt- 'widest of that Hem Gent, the matt (iambs
intended to make jokes, not to groend them Dim
misre;presentatious of what had been said by its
(Mr. Crolter.)
• - After some further' conversation between Ada,
Markham, the Attorney-General, Mr. Ward, and
Mr. Taylor, Sir Charles Pole agreed to withdraw
his motion for the present, on au utiderstantlite
that the required accommodation would take place
scity.urr.EXTEDITION.
Mr. BRA DiRAW, after a short tonveriatinn
with Mr. Secretary Ryder, changed his notice
fur this day into a notice fur to.ntorrow, *hello
will move for a Reborn ottlie regimental Aetna •
Actors's of the Sick, frog the commentated sl
the Wilcheren &mediae* down to the 17th/4 •
brnary, 1810.
IRISH DrBTII4LERIES.
Mr. ItUTCHINSON moved for Copier of d
Communications made to the Chancellot et tie •
Exchequer fur hand • by the Commissioners at!
Excise in that country, relative to the progress
the Bill pending in that House respecting the Dn..,
fineries in Ireland.
Mr. FOSTER. having stated that. such a cos,
municatiow might load to unwarrantable breaches
confidence, and
Sir JOHN NEWPORT not conceiving th in.
formation so necessary, the motion was pat W
negatived without a division.
Mr. O'HARA moved that the several Petition t
from the County of Sligo and other meanies is
Ireland, be referred to the same
Ordered. .
Mr. O'HARA was next proceeding
two separate clauses relative to-the mode of '
ing fines upon parishes it) Ireland in which Midi
stills were found.? when -*
The SPEA.KI.44 remintle'd liitnlhal he was tit
liberty to move such clauses in the Csassiiittee.
The House then went unto. Committee ea tie
Irish Distillery Bill.
Mr. ROBERT SHAW (of Dublin) eland
upon the evils resulting from the rut lbw
tuition that had hitherto so unfortunately pre.
wailed in the Distillery Laois of Ireland; the ay
sequence was, that it damped the spirit of wale,
by rendoringqlie fairest apcculations, at the best,
extremely hazardous ; but in no instead, would
any' change that had-yet taken place be felt so se:
wcrcly (kit by which the 'small stills wen
now to be .suddenly encoureged at • the it
mice of the large ones. A great deal of er
.10611 had been hazarded 'upon the faith of the
permanent encouragement of the larger stills; if
that encouragement Was maw suddenly to be willbt
Wits, all that capital would be forfeited, and .des
rain- of. some of the first houses in this tradaiti .
Ireland would he the serious and melancholy Coo.
sequence. The great distillers had not had sass
cient notice. It was hut reasonable, he thoighti'
to-give them time to dispose of their large stack
on hand, before bounties were givep to the small
-He. therefore should propose as tin
Amendment to the present clause, that tlieStati•
ties on thee small stills be postponed for a< Poe I.'
be limited. saw
Mr. FOSTER contended , in'oppositiefilAte° ,
orpiment' of Mr. Shaw, that the peat parr
had had abundant notice, and knew so fli back
as the year 1800, that the principle of the ensesq
ragement of small stills would be acted apes; -""
the earliest opportunity that it was deemed ezi".
diem so to do.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT supported the clause •
as it stood, Which, after a few words from Mr.'
Leslie Foster, was agreed to.
Mr. 4H*W then At need sweaseetrithill."'
nhich had arisen from the want of a elliPo!`"":
troul over the Excise Commissioners.
who was, probably drunk at the time, had ow"'
„fa...m took
the hone of a distiller in Dublid;
place, and some blows passed beam!. &IPS
and clerk of the distiller. Tills saes* 'bat f""'
. tie
40001. a.week to the retenae, et
avgsligi
.Csimmissioner for redress, and thistineitr MP: .
Wes, that his licence war $111411"401• They re
fined to hear evidence. The trial at'lengdOoct
place—the clerk was acquitted, and the Pik
did not appear, but forfeited bla leeq"ho .
The diriller suffered great injury by a OsPe"The
of-Seven weeks.' lie moved, therefore, dim, the
clatter placing the stispeattitin of lireno“
discretion of the Commissioners be left oat.
su.pd,phoirptediestubillltirP:irtoag_gi
mehnitr;al)ndENd w"ri".4..°" K.

coati
eat st
'do i
Mr.

g ST A T MAZI
--,----414,—**
rrcd In records it alinn Lim only to a
;ad, as ono of this he was wrong ;
esty, to codes. kayo hero to lot the
•

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all consel ence, . though to thwag.o meta, and dwelt otimg,the hardbbip resulting IT:
to•the peculiarity of the ilmd.. any subject of the etppire living, contrary so!:
ncistion, it • might appear-that Constitution, tinder (ho arbitrary optics 911"
lit tltAions of what was, and individual fAr Pet of Men. ios e•
idenat• As that liao. Gentle- Mr. CROliiiit ',aid, Opt he keg "asi cm;
o t,
much of pelf*: not being kilo, that the method of procCetllllloe - !tiff',
[a Mugh], th9ultii he (4r. ctincti was had, Reit Itiett as calif(Ore si
oil thet takogo 're,orcod con. Mr. fustcrs Mr. \C'eliestt, roV, Ak_
17,041100.4_16.0. Ticilon. Nairn... .... _
i. . .