The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-03-03 00:00:00

TIIE STATESMAN.

Jecterl, that there wax to be deducted the sum of
35,31,41. The „casualties, pension", &e. for the last
four I ears (*. understood the Noble Lail to say)
had Iseett-on an ays;rage upwards of 180,0001. 26
w/oily. There was reason, however, •to expect that
in the present seer the sum required would not be so
great. In the Military As)lum there had been
made a diminution of 1,5641 ; and in the items of
%Videos' Pensions, there was a diminution of 10111: In
the. Compassionate List, there *fluid be perceived a
reduction of 16961. ; and in the item of reduced
Adjutants of Local Militia, an increase of 13051.
1 is she sixpences of the troops in France, there was a
reduction in the sum total of 175,1831. In the West
Indies there was a small increase, irking from the
circumstance that two of the regiments that went out
had only remained part of the year. There would
be found, upon the whole, a saving in the total
charge of troops, &c., in 1818, of the sum of
188,0001. and the whole charge, including the
troops in France, India, &c., would be found to be
less by 418,0001, and the •whole number of men in
the Estimate, when compared with the Estimate of
'last year, was less by upwards of 21,000. The
Noble Llrd concluded by moving the first Regale-
tion in the Committee. " That 113,640 be the nem.'
her of mess for the military services of Great Britain,
Ireland,. &C. for the present year." '
After the Resolution had been pot from the Chair,
Mr. CA LCRAFT said, as far as respected the
force applicable to the general service of Great Bri-
tain, and the occupation of the Northern part of
France, he considered the greet of 79,000 men too
great for the objects proposed to be obtained. It
appeared to him that 20,416 men, the number re-
quired for the 01d stations, as well as 12,600, alleged
to be requisite for the new, were not warranted by I
our establishments.in these stations, in former times
of peace, although he would admit they were
not very much over.reted. But certainly, to
calculate the force for the service of Great Bri-
tain alone at 25,936 men, was one to which
he could never assent. For a similar purpose,
in 1792, the House had been called on to vete
only 15,000 men, with which, too, several in that
House expressed their dissatisfaction, as more than
were absolutely necessary. It was the more sur-
prising that so large a vote should be moved for by
the Noble Lord, as there was an English army lit
France ready at band in case of emergency,
amounting to near 23,000 men. Upon such an
Estimate he should, therefore, take the first oppor-
tunity to move, when the )louse was more folly
attended, that the vote should be considera-
bly curtailed, were it only to show the country
there was erre man et least in the House who did
not look upon this extravagant tote with unbe-
coming indifference. Could a case be shown suf-
ficiently strong as to establish the necessity of such
a force, he should, of course, wave his intended op-
position—as yet its necessity had not been establish.
ed. The items of our military expence were exces-
sively oppressive upon a country groaning, as this
was, under accumehrted taxation. The interest of
the National Debt must be paid yearly, or at least
raised some how or other. The Right Honourable
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he apprehended,
must feel a little difficulty its sanctioning such votes
as this, when he recollected the inconvenience he
might be put to in trying to raise the money required.
lie knew it beriberi§ been said last year that 25,000
men were not too much for presersing the peace and
assisting the civil power in Great Britain; yet he
must confess he could but see why, in the year 1818,
nearly double the force should he required for the
same purposes as had been voted in 1792. Ireland,
too, it should be recollected, though not in a flourish-
ing state, was nevertheless peaceable and patient,
though suffering_ the most heart-rending privations.
Why also a greater force should he granted for the
preservation of our East India possessions, was also
a most extraordinary phenomena. That country
'sever had been been better affected towards us than
at the present moment, nor our alliances more ex-
tensive or respectable. Under these circumstances,
he should, unless hereafter satisfied, move for a re-
duction of this force to 8 or 9000 men less.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY considered the waggon train
a force peculiarly objectionable to any great extent,
as the military always had it in their power to press
the carts or vehicles of the country round into their
service. With respect to the recruiting service, he
could not help regretting that the expences charged
on that service appeared nearly equal to the bounties
given for recruits. Pensions also to the amount of
7501. annually on so young an establishment as the
Military College, he considered very objectionable,
and likely to be looked at with suspicion. The set-
tlement of the Barrack Master's accounts bad cost
the country in itself so much money, that the kind-
ness in effecting the reduction of that office had been
the less sensibly felt.
Lord PA LM ERSTON defended the waggon train,
as eminently useful, as had been found in the late
campaign; the forge and spring carts were not to he
had but in this description of service, the latter of
which bad been most serviceable and appropriate in
removing the wounded from Waterloo. It was in-
tended to make other reductions, as soon as could
possibly be effected, in other branches of the service,
and every thing or situation, not conducive to the
' service, should be sacrificed to its permanent kite-
rests. A less force at home than that proposed could
not effect the relief of foreign garrisons, and it would
be highly unconstitutional to permit a corps to re-
main abroad for ever. A force of 4or 5000 would
be by this means always in transitu, and necessarily
decrease the nomber on the home station. Taking
into consideration the alteration in the military pos-
ture of all Europe since 1792, it was not wonderful
sech a vote as that of 1792 should be inadequate to
the home service in the present year.
Mr. W A RRE considered the British forces in
Picardy, were, from the proximity to England, per-
fectly available en the shortest notice, if their ser-
vices should he requisite at home.
Mr. PEEL was happy to congratulate the House
on the confidence it reposed in the loyalty and good
feeling generally admitted to pervade all Ireland, al-
though suffering, to' common with other's of his Me-
jesty's subjects, the severest privations. Much of
this was to be attributed to the more perfect admi-
nistration of justice, and the promptitude of the civil
power. That 18,000 then were all that was
sary for Ireland was the more remarkable, for, in

in t, 15,000 "AA. cht, voted for the service- .914liat
eq .fP. 111? &M OM reduction of -the' last .ye to
i
Fr fa)to.234•Aers to 20, oridArow''.ll3,ooo, Okovet4
in . OW,. Otos' Alvfactorityi Abe rapid gill;istltAl
internal tranquillity i. !reload:. . . •
Sir WILLIAM BURROUGHS could not see
any such great reasons fur cougratilation with re-
spect to the smallness of force now required to keep
the-peace in that country. In the American war
dim Were,not fire thousand men there, and yet the
Irish considered themselves for the greatest part em-
ba4ed in the cause for which America fought.—
The reduction effected altogether' this year, was no
more than about 2,000, compared with last year,
yet the revenue of last year was well known to be
but 5l millions, and its expenditure 65. millions.
Notwithstanding this deficit of 14 millions, ac-
knowledged last year, would the House go on
thus voting away ,money the People would not
make good ? Nor should the Ministry reckon upon
the Property-Tie in any shape as likely to come to
their aid ; the public feeling was too strongly against.
it : and he more especially warned the Right Honour-
able Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer) not to attempt any breach of faith with the
public creditor, by an application of the Sinking
Fund, to enable them to meet the difficulties their
present extravagance must lead them into. He ex-
pressed himself resolved to support the motion of his
Hon. Friend when it should be brought forwaid.
Lord PALM ERSTON and Mr. W AKRE sere-

ined

rally exilic _o.
Mr. BA BINGTON expressed a hope that the soi
Mira receiving pensions might be freed from certain
Inconvettieeces to which he understood they were at
present Imposed.
Mr. C. LONG declared his readiness to concur in
any suggestions that might be proposed hy the lion.
Member for effecting so desirable an object ; but he
had flattered himself that his own esertions in respect
to that point hitherto, had not been altogether un-
availing.
Mr. FORBES complained, that a detailed state.
merit had not been laid before the House of those offi-
cers who receittel pensions. •He feared it might be
found, on enquiry, that the navy was not, in-respect
of pensions, placed on thesame footing as the army.
Lord PA IA Eusros replied, that the statement
alluded to was tint usually laid before the House ;
but if the lion. Member moved for it, it should he
granted. Ile denied that any partiality hail ever
been shown to one service more than to another.—
The pensions given to officers of the army were given
by one department, bet to the o:.icers of the navy
by another ; coosequettily the idea of partiality or
of preference to flue serviee more than to the other,
was wholly unfounded. Ile felt convinced that in
the mode of granting pensions to otticers of the'
army, no abuse whatever existed. A re.essenination
of some cases had been considered necessary, mt,
no person could maintain that a pension which Ina
been granted on a certain contlitiou, should not
cease when the cssolition ceased ; but if tie Hon.
Gentleman would in private slate a 0130 where a pen.
.sion withdrawn ought to be continued, or %here
continued ought to be withdrawn, he should be ex-
tremely happy to esaniirie the case with him.—
. Hear, hear 1..]
The Resolution was then agreed to.
The following Resolutions were then put and car.

ried :
V,471.1411. for the pay of the land forces of Great Britain, at
home and abroad, with the exception of the troops in Frunce
and India, from the 24th December, 1817, to the 2 ith December,
1818, both iarlusi.e.
her,
817.t141.
to to
the r the
elan land forces of IlBlrelanB. d, from the 21th DeCeol.
1817, December,
11b ,7071. for the General Stag' ()dicers of Great Britain. at
home and abroad, with the exception of those io France and
India.
33.8601. for the Georral Staff °Seers of Ireland.
137,3631. for allowrmcea to certain Officers io Public Depart-
ment. in Great Britain.
8,8201. fur allowances to persons in similar Departments in

Ireland.
•27 65:11• fur the Medical and Sergical I)eparunent In Great

Britain.
10.0311. for the same Department io Ireland.
94.(10 d. fur Volunteer Corps in Great Britain.
31,5401. for Volumene Corps in Ireland.
855,4191, fur the Laud Forces in France.
214751 fur Recruiting Carps iu the service of the East India
Company.
25,5141. for the Royal Military College.
175,6721. for the Pay of General Officer. in Great Britain, not
being Colonel< of Regiments.
23631. for the Sallie service in Ireland.
46,2391. for the Garrivoos of Great Britain, at home and
•broad.
7,1';91. for the I:arrival), of Ireland.
149,0001. for the 101 l pay of Retired Officers in Great Britain.
3.6971. for the full pay of Retired Officery in Ireland.
601,7301. Sur the half-pay of Reduced Othcetv is Great
Britain.

taiu.
50,1751. for the the tea-pay of Officers in Ireland.
28.5601. for allowances to Reduced ()dicers in Great Britaia,
136,1c01. far Pensions to Retired Officers in Foreigu Corps.
44,0121. ss. 9d. for the 1n- l'ensiotiers of Chealsea Hospital.
16,7111:1. 7s. 9d. for the In-Peuiioners of Kilonagtham.
872,1991. 10s. 4d. for the Out-Pensiouers of Chelsea.
180,1331. Y.. lid. for the I tut.Prosioners of Kiloureham.
3Y,8511. Co. 3d. tit, the Royal Military As.slurn at Chehea.
.80,4181. for Widow.' Firming. in Great Britain.
•
111,4151. I Is. 2 I. for Widows Pensions in Ireland.
161,9061. S. 7d. fur the Compassionate List, Royal Bounty,

:c.
20,809. for Rednred Adjutants of Local Militia. •
%7.4b01. for Superannuation, to Public Departiucnts is Great'
Attain.
7,1111. Ills. 811. for Sup/animations in Ireland.

on. 00. .
55,0001. fur Exchequer tee,
52.1161. for Corps in Great Britain. to be reduced in 181&
Y,SBII. fur Corps in Ireland. to be reduced in 1818.
he CHA NCELLOIt of the EXCHEQUEtt then moeetl,
that the ,um of 2.00J,00,11. be granted for discharging interest
on Exchequer Hills, Irish Treasury Bills, and Abut Notes,
which whn agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQUE.R then moved,
that the sum of 1,C95,6151. be granted for Treasury Bills, isseed
for Ireland in JBl6, prirsuaat to the Act of the 56th Geo. 111.
c. 47. now outstanding and unprovided for.
The said Revolution being carried. the Right Honourable
Gentleman thou moved, that there be granted the sum of 560,00J1.
being 100th part of 58.0.'0,0031. of Exchequer Bill!, which were
authorized in the last Session of Parliament to be issued on the
charges of the Aids of the prewnt year. to be paid in equal
quarterly payment., to the Governor and Company of ;he Batik
of England, to be by them placed to the account of the Cum-
atigsiouers for the recinctiou of the National Debt.
This grant being voted,
Mr. WA [ME rose to ask the Right Honnorrible Gentleman,
what sum this country was hound to pay for the eri et ion of
fortreesses in the Netherlands ?
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said, that we
bad counter claims on the Government of She Netherlands.
which would nearly reduce its demands, and it might not be
necessary, ultimately, to call on this House to furnish any part
of the sum to he applied to that purpose.
Mr. SHAW asked what with was to be paid by France to
this country for Contributions, and whether any part would be
applied to the service of the country this year?
Ile CH A NCELLOR of Oh PAM Egu ER said. that no
part of the Fres. b Contributions would be so applied.• but the
Government of France would pay the expence of the Army of
Occupation, and the remainder or the money would be abp.ied
toward4the charges of erecting the fortresses in the Nei herhindS.
The Resolutions were then carried. and the Itepiurt was or-
dered to be brought up to morrow, and the Committee to sit
again on Wedaezday.
•