The Statesman.
London, England, 1809-08-10 00:00:00

ray opittioes,
0( large tow as and
rot the right of
repreaentid in Pare

lianas:a, Manchester
WolesirAempters,
which hare no right attest 4 o them.
This will tend to shew the real sense of the people,
ss welkhose who have not, as those who, at pre-
sent, have the right of Election of Representatives
in Parliament, There is another observation which
I have to make to you, which, has been resttlered•
necessary, by what bas been said. by a worthy
Gentleman (Mr. Mallet), whose general argument
has been very ably answered by Mr. AValthmats ;
bet one particular matter stated by him remains to
be noticed ; that Gentleman has said, that he will
not eonseat to send any Petition to the House of
Commis, because he has no faith in the wisdom
and integtity of the House of Commons. I agree
with bum in that sentiment, but differ from him in
the conclusion which he draws from it. I agree,
with him as to the wisdom and.integritY of tho.
House of Commons ; I have no faith in the mil,
don and integrity of the House of Commons, and
yet I would Petition that House; for, although I
have no faith in its integrity and irriStlonh. I have
much hopes in the fears of ifs majorities.. It was
not integrity which produced a Vote against my
Lord Melville; it was nut intregrity which made
Ministers turn out the Duke of York ; I say
turned out, fur it has been very improperly called.
resignation. No, Gentlemen, it was nut into•
grity, but fear, that did all these things. We
generally find that Tyrants arc in common as
cowardly as they are corrupt, anti that their fears
do more good than their integrity. [Applause.]
Now, upon this topic, let us see what is the
doctrine of my worthy friend (Mr. Mallet). Ile
tells you, that if the opinion of the whole country
were expressed in favour of this Petition, he should
be fur presenting it to the 1t ouse of Commons, much
.as be distrusts the wisdom and integrity of that
House, because he thinks that thegeneral opinion of
the whole country,uttequit ocaily expressed, would
over-awe that House, and produce the desired cf..
feet. Then, I say, for that very reasug he ought
to assent to this Petition being presented to th.a
House, before that general orittion of the country
shall have been expressed, because measures like
these have a tendency to produce that general
.pinion of the public, the expression of which
every worthy friend admits would he so elficaci-
oua, fur be hardly menus to say that such an ex.
pranks of sentiment on the part of the public at
large would give more integrity, or more wisdom'
to the House of Commons than it poetesses; at
-present. lather think these two qualities would
remain the same as they are at present, but the
conduct the House might be very different, and
as all things must hare a beginning, you) ought to
set to the country an example, and• therefore,
every worthy friend, upon his own doctrine,
ought to *meat to the presenting of this Petition
to the House of Commons, even if it were only
fur the purpose of convincing the country that no
coefulresce ought to be reposed in the wisdom and
integrity of that House, but that such was to be
expected from its fears or its deference to the ge-
neral opiaion of the public. Then how is the upi-
pion of the couple: to be collected ? It cannot
be by any means, at least so well collected, as by
Petitions presented by dillessent parts or the
country to the House of Commons. That
is the way to obtain general, discussion—that is
the way to 'hew to the world at large that the
Pqople of England are DitTEIMINED to have a
Parliamentary Reform—lf that determination be
pet into a tangible shape, and laid on the table
of the House of Commons, it will stop the mouth
of the Minister, and reduce him to a decent si.
lee% instead of allowing him to say, that no
Reform in Parliament should take place, because
the people at large do not desire a Reform in Par.
lisment.
Mr. HARE TOW NIIIEND cangratulated the Ileethig
on the good sense displayed by the different Gentlemen ahe
had "token on the subject of discussion now before them.
It was by the adoptions of the seutimenis now urged, that
England could alone be safe. Ile should, in ass short a coat-
pass as possibi., point out to the company the importance of
the troths which they had heard to-dai ; fur hsore sound
sense than had been spoken to-day, had Mier Miles from the
lip- Omni. He proposed in. oilier the
,present system with
regard tomilor, and soldiers.? to give moderate resew se
them is time of peace, aait astepalster their places of abide;
he was entirely adverse ea thoddErsent spirts 'of shutting no
oar *den r. in berrkeks, sod by secluding them from all
civil societi , and making them re arklatier, instead of being
ahem as well as soldiers; for, be the present systens, their
coal utility was entirely destroyed, sole they would be less
etheient, even as soldivrs. if /be boar St real danger should
arise in this country ; fur. if they saAllll-4, call .W slat•of
• beerecks, each soldier could be mewed Iwo sal, as an MAI.
tided whereas, if the system of barred's wag done away,
and each suldleyhad a mull pension to belp
_him to live its
such be would betake himself to Malt.Bl.olloteoltorloa is
dell life, and would necessarily have tricots, as,' hest called
arm to go Mtn the field of battle. to &Rod hii Wife load,
be would have serorthuig to tight/sr, and each soldier woad
hags a friead to accompany him; i. tr...hqliag out sol-
diers from this candid= of society, we aect, tall
out a double army at we; Ihr we shouldteth grovtAmw
tian of the perdition a the cosetry 1. MOMlllearlt NOM%
and .41 kitting for thatadh was soy& dear to them.
We &eld w then have a of mintier idl es truly eel-
cleat, became it would W try*, peace Al large, and
Assisted with every thing thogi,millit want. Oa the. other
hand, if the, were catled out of ilisrreelts, {hey would tint
be known to the imblle ; imbed, 'mould care much afloat
asinine Illab in ithiltellie .1000611 tl.isappest to feel it, art
lyre ths haidebito to stanch, par Waives wars, . (-spew! in
Stogie, occurred to his mind, -when they were without shoes,
Lid ia oast of many other 4weranirks' frodt. Othleit cruel
hardships MID of them pipli,eta; why 30 becaasse they wow
we backed by the penes at 9paiss • t:kil led hiqf In repeal,
that In-tead of Amite mar addwrs up in Ilfirracks,
flkiehy ascbedirtg theft heat Isripty, they shinaidhealintwed
trh,njs with tt, :,•sJ have mail hiirPorl tare' .is
pence, shyest the) tn:glit he unr iwi wart 181 the hour of pen),
and limo was conformitbk to th,.. principle of the Cookie&
tie* of England, hi which a sobrav was ant a soldier •
lost p relive us well as a soldier ; by these prisicipks
acted upon, ter re.vpie of England *bull le, at alt
invillOWO. 'lbis was the oysters an which see should set
•
and testald lot the system adopted by redeemer. if-lbe re-
prewstp.oiost of lee people was paws, t.esteesd tf leliliClN we
ichreis s not satilinal dams e . .tll bf %W. e ire* ~mot
in proportion as they deviated from the ails plied), of our
u good
ofd nnoinstine ; a strikieg proof of which was esitedialied
ss Mr. I +lv had *hews how ne.sh a eau mt g std

upon the subject of Selma
tie gimp lied, of oot Oar&
to produsir
tour of I bet,
for tt look txpeet
Mounisis Illohoto tor

cume--41
nate itur

the safety of this eeentrr
Towers could sot be se eji-
of isl And as sasoll skips would
te to skew that all departure front the
of our MA& of Defence, was
plan was.to have the soldiery and the mg-
footiqr,, that they should be sailed with,
the body of the people. This would he
+malt be adopted, if the people were
is Parlianteot.

.—Conline, yoarself to the subject matter of the
awe us, if you please.
.. •
?fr. HQL'f WHITE said he shored ant take up any of the
Hine of the Meet* with *be-mafiosi; he shonhl tamest
Ilinwelf with reeditag the Petition, which he did, very au-
Ably.
The qurslion wos then pot on the ertitinn, when nearly al!
hands in the room were held up in its favour. Against it, the
same threes trade which hail bees lipid up against all the Re-
! siliceous, except that of Viola to Sir Francis Burdett,
Welch post astanimously.
A Resolution was then mited,
That George dyne, Esq. and William Mellish, Esq. our
Reprewittetiires he loarliameut, arc hereby balmiest to sup-
port this Petition.-
+k Freeholder proposal* substitute the this Resolution—
That Sir Fee nets ISollarti should wawa the Petition---
hut this was overruted ismodiatels , mai the original Rego-
' lutio• carried by all'hands, except the maw dissentiag three
that had opposed every other Resolution, as already stated.
Mr. BY NG. [Groat tipple:use.] " Mr. Sherlf—Gentle-
men Freeholdersz--I shall feel great satisfisetion le presenting
the Petition which has just been trade* the Cosmos House
of Parlamenti r• it is very comollog and pigment to my feel-
ing to find, that the Mae of coodiet wlikh I have ever ad-
hered to, steroid meet the approbation aid Oppose of to nu-
merous nd so respectable a twastiliteut pest of the Body,
Which I. have the hisser so represent in Parliament. Geo-
tioneu I have ever kit the justice and the necessity of a Re-
form in the Commas House of Parliament, because I have
ever felt that, postileted withal Heart is at present, it is net
a fbltbfut represestatina of the People of England. I have
ever felt that the Majority of that Assembly, are not chosen
by the great body of the Peoph---that the People cannot, as
that Assembly is at pretest coustituted, possess that import-
ance mid that weight, which is due to them in the scale of
the Cossiution, and I am sure nacre are many thousands of
your fellow-citizens-whistle ma enjov7.but whom you would
wish should enjoy, thew pies Urges which we, as freeholders
do enjoy, and un which we justly set so great a value. that
of choosing who shall represent us in Parliament,* privilege
which is at present withheld from many thousands who are
equally taxed with ourselves, and to whom it is equally im-
portant to have the choice of those who are to decide no their
best and their dearest interests. (tippling.) Asa Mend
to Parliamentary Reform. Gentlemen, I never wished to
aim at any innovation is haters.' —I only wish that we
should have restorers to the people that weight and power
which, of right; belongs to them. 1 respect the Monarchy;
I respect the Aristocracy of this realm, for many good m-
oms—and for one reason, whirl, has the greatest weight in
hay shod, because these ton parts of our Constitution are
israfal to the people. These three parts united, form our Con-
abatis° ; and it they do not form the best theoretic form of
goverimell that the genius of man tould.tey,gest, they form
that which is of greeter importance. the beet practical form
of government now upon the pee of this earth; it h. how-
ever, imperfect in ib repent:Mob...l; and l shall never rest
satisfied until I see a perfect Reform in the Representation
of the People in Parlianion. that is a blessing to which 1
look with an earnest ansiets ; a blessing which can alone bc
effected by the Members rit the Howe of Commons being
fairly chosen by the people themselves, and not nominated by
the servants of the Crow li, or cnosposed of the Livery of the
Aristocracy of thr country. --;:pr, at "Ipplause.)—Reresen-
, tation is a valuable deposit or the rights of the subject; it
1 sacred trust reposed in the Representative, and was ant
meant to become matter of profit to individuals, to which, I
am sorry to say , if has been in too many iostatwes converted ;
for now, many individuals have the meow of returning more
Members to Pareamerie and thereby to passes, much more
influence to the rutni.ib of the nation than whole counties
have. superior as they ought to be to any Individual. of
whatever consecpwnee lie may be In the coatery. II sin re-
gard to the did; rein mores of Reform which have
been mentioned at varimb time- I hive no difficulty in
coufessing, that I feel smacked' to the form which was
Stated in the year 1793; by which -le was propteted,
That the right of satins for a Member to serve in Parliament,
should be allowed to al Freeholders, to all riespelliollf :es
rasa to all howebolders, pa, ing direct taxes to rte S. -
' With regard to the duration of Parliament, ',think 11144 bet
little importance a nether it he ;Jona:dor triennial. We have
not been deprived of trietudal Peirlianwnts for more than Al
years—it was settled by the Revolution, by a hicli, and by
which alone, the lamer now os the throw of Great Britain
bold their situation. that or should have triennial Parlia-
ments. We have a right to demand a restoration of that prac-
tice, so well adapted as I thiuk it is, fur the protection al
security of iter right, and liberties—a benefit a tech we have
only lost ninety years. Thus touch, at present, for my senti-
ments on the domains of Parliament ; bat the great object is,
that every honest man elsouW come forward and support a
semen, of Reform in Parliament, in order that all corrup-
tions and all abases whatever may. in time, be entirely swept
aWay.n--( Hoe appeasee .]
Mr. bl ELL ISH--:(a oisbnt swear—Heat ! bear! stlesecel
tilmate !)—" Mr. Sherif; and tientlemeti Freebsiders—Be.
fore 1 begin to say a few words to you, and I cam aware you
they wit( be very few, I latter myself that I shall be heard
[Hear. hear 1 --because if you refuse to bear me, stothing
nut enable me to impress Igoe your minds afterwards what I
mesa, and it might be construed into an insult to you ati—
lt/ear, Attar 11—Bet I ems more you it will be very don,
if you will he silent, and 1 think really, in justice tome, yea
ought to be silent ; but I will speak, and take up a very
short part of sour time. I cannot be so period, Gentlemen, sr
to think I can convince you that 1 am right iu my opielo-1
should take, ;wasps. too much time in attempting it, sad in
which I should, most likely, be unsuccessful, but I hope I
shall obtain:ileum. It was not nty intention to have said .me
wont, this day. —( WAy will Wu ant begin! Come. begin!
begin! Shame ! game ! Stlrtwe ! siknce !)—I think if it
had not been fur as observatiou of a neighbour of mine, Mr.
Hatt White, a Gentleman from whom I differ in politics ma-
terially— [ Dell, bat why don't you beginl]—Gentlemen, upon
the last Resolutiou, by which you instruct your Members to
support a Referee in Parliament, I should always be happy,
and elsould feel great satisfaet• when my opinion coincides
a ith yours; but, wises nos opiition is diametrically opposite
to yours, I down feel that you have that power to Destruct
me to do what my opinirin lowans me diametri-
cally against—pie ! no Ino !]—Gentlemen, If 1 could
perfectly understand what the Mover of this petition
means—what Reform in Parliament—or bow a Reform
in Parliament—or, more property, if the matter were
brought to such a pitch; as that I could give my opinion on ,
one refurtant another,' should be happy to do so, because re-
form may bellwethers' it sone! lime.—(be you think U ne-
cessary now, ape, Oita coming to the point #3--Cenflemen, a
friend of none, Mr. flare 1 ownsend, has mentioned the tie-
cessiry of a Reform as to Tribes, by which he would take
away* the property 6f an individual, to which he may have
as much right as any of you Gentlemus have to nay mosey
you may have its your. poiaets. I detest the idea of Increase
of tythes as much as any Man spats earth du do. I levet
that there is tura a thing; her there is no remedy for% tint
1 know of—he Church must he supported ; and when lava
man, whom I have know as so many years, stand up before.
large Osembly, and propose each a remedy for the thril, I am
amazed. I canned arrest to 'rich a Reform. I callootsaatter
myself that I ran conchmle with saying, teat every 'Reform
ut' Parliemeirt shall have my assent or sapport. I shall qt.
tend to niy duts. owl .11 1 think it right, FshaNgist, way to
.'
it.- VII tSif! Oi! V : Of! it IL hsra
gone sway without : 'swig ii word—[Of! Of! en-s-le
t had gale ;testy withuiut erplainkig to you my 4-N titbit-Sus •
'ors wouldhate:attributed to me exliramsons 1 did riot make
use of ins .ref. or they atiAht babe been fet down .is coming
,from uss-(tiere tile lion. Member was entirely °seeps)* -
ered.be'the tumult, illl4 lie ins compelled to sit 'doers ; ant
uoistees igoo! CUilitt ke.possibls utter more that was awdibigs]
' Mr. 11A it re 'I ti il'( E'S 11l lamented that Nlrd Mellislillad
not We:: guile so clear in the expression of hi. sontiontots as
miry, nave been desired, in order to consprehesd his mesa-
)ne, bet waft he said rotated some idea teat he ell.elowiss.
-,,,„5) bad aseertee the Chose+, by .peaking tipsiest Tylbee.—
Now , notbiof could ta: furt4re from hit ineaqing, all he had
ear osfee se mosey ea', an ialealhaetatetlacrease its the rate
Ili Tata* wa- ititA4vas in the lamest of else vow., imam
it bad'a tendeacy to ;or rease the price of care, and to rbtse
it to each a peke as that mare but the opulent could afford to
hey it. As to the attack. repay use Pierces by th.:4 ;Wiens

•!%

. .
4?"- TIM STATESMAN. ~ I, , • .4, •

urn Tydliu, Kr. lienish wenanfortnuate in his instance,
ter It Ilappeied in this erne, that the Tythe was not the pros
Ie!! poison lathe Church, but to a lay-impropriation!
Ci r. Mellish, imperfect as lir had expressed hinvelf,
contrived to convey a meaning to 'hew that he wai a
Member of the tree illormsgh Faction, for be skewed that
he was above both his Caboitnents and the Throoe, as all
the Borough Faction cuoceise themselves to be, it lisgard
to their esedoct In Parliament. " I thought,-.,raid My-
Townsend,." when Mr. Mellish beam to address . Gen-
' denten, as his Constituents. he was going to say, ' that as Ite
could not Yu conscience, obey your orders, as, your servant ;
, be should *tiers his situatisia."—[Braso ! Brno!] -But be
said DMA* like it, he dues not seem to perceive the necessity
of resigning, although he tells sou that be will not obey your
orders : but 1 trust not see the necessity that he should go
out.—(Groat applease.)
Mr. CARTWRIGHT then observed, that there was now
no queillioo before the Meeting, but he thought it incumbent
on him to sa a few words on the topic of the duty of Mern-
beti ofsP obeying the directions of their Carom-
eats. Of late the Borough Faction had ietrudaced a ism
dear*, which interfered with the functions of the King
himself, as' well as being a subversion of the rights
and liberties of the subject. Noes, when the Kmg could
not attend his duty in Parliament, being disabled by age
or infirmity, he empowered Commissions to give the Itos al
Assent to. or withhold it, from any Act of the two Houses
of Parliament. Now suppose there was a Bill agreed upon
by both Houses, to alter the succession; and the King
were to direct his Commi"iiiners to refuse the Royal
Assent to such a Bill, without which it could sot have
the force of law. Upon the doctrine of Mr. Mel-
lish, held before his Cuestituenu this day, the Cominis-
sinners might say to the King, "It is true, your Majesty
cionranaded es to rejims the Royal Assent to this Bill ; but
when son appointed es your Majesty's Commissioners, you
delegated to us your power, and we are to act as we think
fit ; we have attest as we thought dt, and therefore we have
assented to a Bill to alter the Succession."—Such was the ex-
teat of the doctrine of Mr. Mellish respecting the power de-
kgated to a Member of Parliament. But this bad an reuse-
Mance to the true principles of the Comtitetioa of imelmist ;
for la the old Law Hooks. and the highest earestitedasisl au-
thorities known to this realm, Members of Parliament were
denominated " the Attoraies of the People." ?bit Is, per-
sons to sit In the Haase of Comments to do for the people
what, if it were passible for them to be present. the purple
would do for themselves; and therefore there was so doe-
trine more ceretitutleeal, thee " that a iiiiimlihrt elf Parties
meat is Wand to obey the direction of his Goollemme.-
.
The SHERIFF did not think it neoessery.kribillomp.,
able Gentleman to take notice of every thin that II& Ike•.
tisk had said.
Major CARTWRIGHT then proposed a Petition to the
King on the present state of Public Affairs.
Mr. CLIFFORD doubted the regularity of such a pro-
ceeding, since the Meeting was convened for another purpose,
that of " considering of a Reform hi Parliament."
The 11111:RIFF'S decided, however, that as it was avow-
edly connected with the subject of Parliamentary Reform,
it was regular to discuss it, arid the Petition was read accorda.
laity by-Major Cartwright.—The Petition embraced av g
variety of political circumstances and matter; tracing to r
soarees those political evils of which the Petition coinklai '
On the question being put for adopting it,
Mr. HARE 'TOWNSEND said, he lamented that his
sense of public duty led him to dissent from any thing that
came from* quarter so ens irdy respectable as that of Major
Cartwright; but he really thought this Petittao=llol.
notch original matter unenonected, or else c alb
moiety, with the subject now before the Meeting; besides,
the how was much too late to enter on the discussion of is'
complicated a subject. .
Mr. WAITHNIAN was entirely of the same opiaitos.
There war no man breathing for whom he had more esteem,
than he had for Major Cartwright. The posbability, was,
that be would hot propose any thing that was not tit M be
adopted, hut should it contain any word which might be al-
tered to adventure, the Meeting would be sorry to hate
adopted it without more rellectims--Or if, what was very,
*Daly, but possible, it , committed any thingthat was wrung,
the_ enemies of Reform would greedily lay hold of it.
Tile rpseWhin was then put on the Petition, and negatived
ea,the hew of hands.
Mr. WA ITIIM AN then moved the Thanks of the Meeting
to Mr:flume Brea, Esq. for his conduct as Representative
of the Freeholders of Middlesex in Parliament ; and parti-
eul goy as the stady friend to Parliamentary Reform.—
Al to 'Mr. Melliseh he had committed alinust as many ;su-
nlit-al errors as he had given votes as a Member of Parliament.
He 'sow °petit* defied his comtitnents, the freeholders of
Middlesex; hot if Lewd Castlereagh had beets his constituent,
!SI:. Mellish must either obey or resirn. and rhea,
M n. d.i.l6t,
Sir. ellish would eat hare imitated the political virtue of
Mr. Qeintin Dick, by resigning rather than vote asainst his
nosesenre. 60 Mr. Mellish wants have kuuwu how to vote
tosave his seat. But to offend the Freeholders of Middle-
sex, and to offend Lord Castkreagh, were very different
things to such a man as Mr. Mellish. Mr. Mellish bad en
pretence to the thanks of hr: constituents, but so gracious a
thine was Pailiamentars- Reform in the sight of Mr. Width-
man, that if Mr. Mellish had undertaken to support it is
Parliament. he should have included that Gentleman with
Mr. Dyng hi his Vote of Thanks, fur this one set o 'mid has e
covered a multitude Of political sins in Mr. Mellish, but that
lie had refused to do which accumulated um lilt head still
Further political guilt.
The Vote of Thanks to Mr. Bang was then put and carried
unttnimousl v.
Mr. BYNG returned thanks, considered himself highly
honoured, expressed lib determination to adhere to those
principles which first recommended hint to the outice of his
Coastitrents._ _ . _

-Tlfhioks of the Meeting were then voted unanimously
to the Sberin, for the resullome with which they convected
this Meeting, and for th. it impartial condort is the Choir.
Mr. Sherif SM ITII and Mr. Sherif HUNTER expretsed
with neatneta their sense of the calmest distioction thus coo.
ferred upon them.
The Thanks of the Weise Were thee iseeintoedy voted
to Major Cenwright, tsr his Wog and newearied exertions
in the great cause of Parliamentary Reform.
The Major accepted the favour besdesseelv, and essayed
the Meeting that the cause itt Parliarnealary RAI= be should
never
_give ep bat with his life. The Steedeg tbrateritionted,
'limbering attended to the business of the deriefoefoot hours.

-----.'11,75---7' • --
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statement•of the manner in whildi /*Dashers gym lima strnottmeose may become, upon
tent to Parlialnent, together with a nit, and tili 'Hon. ' Kr. Ctbett bad pro Ile;
sentiments of those who do set seed them tin,. ,r - . elk at once, goolhilate the poi
in which it appears, in snit -. • . ....., . .. a , hfr• coh:)et had Prepared us fi
mho send the &I embers trsPep, .."' , 7 things hoes hint—At this
. •••orS• ..c • • i,•
... torffiree weeks. out at List Mr
ber,aud the number of inhabits** - .• ' r •
~.. . ..,-0.
..
who are here ensw, that tboy • ..,
vcr. ,4,:,
.404.* A ..:.
.',CiD,Oa,beintn'lwlragh7lethadiXtie
AtVittefluornr;
others where they mad hail!, • ..' ' . V . ' .
wish
"4
be
iwpnsied
(411.
113
• , ' 4:
. '.
r'.'.
:' -maim the iftPosvidroarreso"lunl'eatniMiClS. t:lig
it 1
ray opinion, advissable also, t -. •Aj.....,,' ..: • , Z7B-8 TM, only undo', to thew the
of large towns and districts should. 177 Cl' , . truagloPlieft) of our umPrirtstioisal
' , • -„,-- . moripil. The tree plan was.to -bass
not the right of Election, and witk . elt‘e Pa Utilise the ancient votive,, that the
represented in Parliament, suels"- as. the,. Tosser std madea in)airilcohr,wthnuelvd.y of the
ilignstats, Al wiclusster, Leeds, iiiiiiinglgtes., Zol.varyinferetrnted to parprtaireoFt
Wolverhampton, and saw other great towns, suLitiFf._cosuctovocif to
whits's hare no right of election attletteti-to than,. 'Petition's'', torfore tn, it you plea,