The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-04-30 00:00:00

eipelded in dinners .and other expenses. There had
bets more money collected ton was authorized, and no
dednetion was made ill the following year. He complain-
ed thetas* money had been taken off.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER in ex-
planation, disclaimed any intention of limiting. the re-
ooltibliftj of public officers to this How.
Mr. fIuME n*it moved for a copy of the application
made in 1810. by Mr. White, for leave to carry on bosi•
nese, independent of his Atereising the duties of a Tax
Collector, and the answeroftle Board thereupon.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said be last night stated the very
words of that answer, •••
The motion was theisiigreed to.
PRONIOTRINS IN THE NAVY.
Mr. HUM E gave notice that he would to-morrow more
for cergain papers enenentrd with this subject, prepara-
tory to his motion of the 14 of 31ay.
CASH 16AYNIENiS.
On the motion of Mr. HENNET, in the absence of
Mr. tirettfell, the motion relative to Cash Payments was
postponed to Tuesday, tli 34 of June.
PORE leN POLICY.
The Order of the Dupre restuning the debate spa*
the • rens hi.the Kiatcesspeetiste the Stem Papers.
laid upset thwieble, hasimbeettread„•.
WHITMORE role. -Re said he shotaMi,
tam the Hosse.but a short time, He -wished to exthlin
in a few words the tangier of thecore he meant to giveo—
Thai vote should be in favour ofthe Address proposed at
his side of the House. I o eying that vote, howevsa, he'
was not to be understood irs'expreasing an opinion tint it
was the policy'of this cottikty to go to war—(ttear,)—and
still less that threats or menaces should have been held
out, the probable resnit otorhich Would have been war.—
(Hear.)—But his detet mination was fixed by tbis,that be
had looked in vain amongst these papers fur any expres-
sion of manly ietlependent, English feeling, pro.esting
against a most flagrant violation of the laws of nations,
and a mo.t atrocious infringement of the hherstes. of a
people.—(Cheers.)—lie had looked iu vain any thing'
like this, and it was, therefore, that he would vote for the

Address. He had no wish to go much into details upon
those pepers;ittit in one or two words would explain his
views. krona the general tone of these papers it appeared
to him, that the lit. Hon, Gent, opposite had all through
the transaction placed themselves more in:the situation of
•Allies•of France than as mediators for Spain ;—(hear,)—
for there was no difficulty i►n which Prance:was placed,
when a difficulty in concealing her real views Oc-
curred, in wbill an•excuse was not found for her con-
duct is some of these papers. First; as to the Artny of Ob-
servation. instead of calling upon France to explain
her views distinctly we furnished her with an excuse. In
the minute of the Duke of Wellington, lie says, " The
origin, circumstances, and consequences of .the Spanish
Revolution—tie existing state of affairs in Spain, and the
conduct of those who have been at the bead of the Span-

ish Government, may have endangered the safety of other,
countries, and may have exalted the neleasiness of the Go-
vernments, whose Ministers I am now addressing;' and
those Governments may think it necessary to address the
Spanish tiovernntent upon the topics referred. twin these
despatches." This wasawri. true; lint why should it be
alluded to by as English Minister,at the Congress of Ve-
rona ?—(bleer.)-a-Nett, as to the ..necessity going to
Here; also. waskelpet she lama • eat at the &Hi-
Instead of oblignent 11110 a sit elate it once that
they made war upon the libertiesof mankind, we lagoon-
tinily suggested that from the nature of the negociations
between France and Spain, it appeared the latter had
Wallas encoimerted with any which accrued to her as a
Member of the Holy Alliance, and which, if not complied
with, would reduce her to the necessity of going to war.
He did not find that, before this time, the Fgench them-
selves 'Ended to any such necessity. The' suo•ge-tion
was, therefore, put forth gratuitously. It was founded
upon pretests of which toe French themselves were ig-
norant, for except some inisunalerrandings about the
'sale of males on the frontiers, the French Ministers
stated nothing else to justifythein in undertaking alone,
the fatal aggression npuu the liberties of Spain.—(War.)
The next instance of our partiality was in the construc-
tion which we put upon the King's Speech. This ;rasa
document Open whiCh one collet: think there could be
'little incertitude; bnt his Majesty's Ministers, with
great ingenuity, found out that it hail a double mean-
log, and by torturing one member of it, they affected to
explain away the ohjec'iouable parts.—(Cheers.)—The
'nest point in which this same feeling was displayed, was in
the reception which the French King's ;lain, of interfer-
sacs with the internal Government of Spain met with from
as. Par the terms in which that claim was conveyed he
referred to Chateatibriand's note to Mr. Canning, which
,was received on the 27th of January, " The Comte de is
Garde," told " his received orders to communicate
sonfirientialy to Sir William A'Court the King's beoevo-
lent intentions. His Most Christian Majesty demands
that his Catholic Majesty should, of himself and by his
own authority, apply the necessary modifications to the
institutions which hare been imposed on the Crown of
spain by the revolt of a few soldiers. The answer was
important, from the justification which, on adopting the
same views, though in a pacific sense, gave to the aggres-
sion of the French. This letter was dated Jsn. EKth, and
Mr. Canning's words. " We disclaim for ourselves and
deny for other Powers the right of requiring any change
in the internal institutions of independent States, with the
menace of hostile attack in case of refusal. The modem-
don of such demands in no degree justifies in our eyes
such a mode of enforcing them; and this .distliiciiou it Is
the more important to keep steadily in view, and to im-
press Upon the French thivernment et a moment when,
for their sake and at their desire. we are suggesting to
1 Spain. in a tone of friendly counsel. alterations similar to
those which France is proposing as the alternative of hos-
tilities. " Here there was an adoption by us of the claims
made by the French. and if the alterations were ccupled
with the right insisted upon by Louis in the former de-
spatch, that his brother of Spain should " of himself and
by his own authority" make these modifications, it placed
our Government in the most unfortunate situation that
ever any Government was placed in.—(Loud cheers.)- lie
did not believe that the Hight Hoe. tientleman had any
derherate intention of furthering the views of France;
but looking at the tone of all these papers, it was impos-
sible for any one to come to any other conclusion, than
that he endliimeolleagues viewed the cause of ~noun ry
more as their own than that of Spain.—(Hear.) With
this observation he should take leave of the Petters. and
II address a word or two to the Holy Ailiance. And be was
the mere anxious to state distinctly what his, views with
regard to that association now were, in consequence of his
on a former occasion, taken a different coarse
from that which he was now about to pursue. Tee vote
to which he alluded. was one which he gave upon the
question of Naples. in the absence of information on
the real state .of d.e question, he • (Mr. W.) Coo-
curred with Ministers in the views which they took
of that question; but there never was a step of his
lite of which he more repented than having given that
yoie.—(Cheers.) For it how turned out, that the :meet
upon Naples was the commencement of the most horri-
ble system of tyranny and oppression which ever entered
the heads of 'Kings or Emperors.—(ilear, hear,) it want
system, the ferther extension of whiea most boa fatal to
freedom, and -utterly subversive of ' the-rights and m rte.
peodence of the world.' For no men in hit senses would set
that rne etil will• Stop here, New successes will make-the
Allies feel their powerf and there wasmo doubt, that fat

ri

iog, they will abuse it—for sue% Is beam nature. Their
tint efforts might be limited to attacking liberty where it
was easy of access, but they would go on to dennunce itt
very existence, and eventually the manifesto of their
hostility Would proscribe it whereeer it appesre t: Tne
extinct on of freedom, would be the signal f.r the disso ti-
tion of rational power, and the standard of uni 1 ty-
ranny would be waved OM the ruins of netous: It
might be said that one Pelee!. Coed not aggrandize itself
without awakening the jealously of others; but had the
House( never beard of partitioning ?—(llear, hear)—had
they, never heard of a few great Powers making a corn- •
promise amongst themselves? or did they doubt bet whei
they were agreed, they could dispose of kingdoms en they.
pleasedl—(Hear.) Did they think that the Holy Alli-
ance "'redid step short in their career. r r that they would
not finish the attack upon tile liberties of nstions, by a
trespese up on their possessions when the' opportunity or.
fend? A reference to history would the* that it hod
ever been the policy of the great Northern Poser, Russia.
'to embroil her neighbours; that out of their direretteei
she might construct her own power. Let the .conduct of
Catharine with respect to Sweden end Poihnd be appealed .
to in support of this position. Let the political life of the
present Empesor be appealed to, the reviler and attesty
edvanties'whiels he was making towards the eiders' sopa
prestos of liberty. and who would deity that Me eluo wag •
to reistriheinteleme among- t his neigh/bow esiallicffist he lest •
crested a revolution in some neighbouring :State; end thee
;side* a wettariterfertrerftb hlsulbtee, as it/Mont fey ttp-
pveprieting the territory to El:merit He (Mr. IV.) was
Iherefoiseonvinced that. although it was not the policy of-
, this_ country, situated as it was at this moment, to go' to
war; yet that a tone of mat.Ly Independence shonici be .
assumed; and be hoped the d;eisioe of this night' would .
express strongly the feelings of the House upou the subject;
' for if these principles continued to be acted upon, at what-
ever risk and under whatever cjrcumstantTs we might be
pleoed, we should be obliged fh cur own defence to go to
war, and side with the oppressed against the Usorper..—
(Cheers.) Nothing else would check the extension of such
principles, but this strong time of expression—nothing else
could restore the noticing whoee lib.rti.s had teen sleepy
destroyed, or put it stop for further nggression. It wee
therefore desirable that the qurs'ion sh Lend he put opt!' a
fair footing, for Gentlemen were not now called upon to
decide upon the questiminf peace or war.—(hear; hear.)
if that was the question now, however much he (11r. W.)
might differ from the Right n. Gentleman opposite, or
disapprove of his measures,* et he would not hesitate to
vote.for peace. But that was net the question. The ques-
tion was, what attitude this country ought to have assumed
in the peculiar situation in which she was placed 9 It was
his opinion that she ought to have adopted a manly and
energetic tone, and he hoped the inajotiry of the House
to-night would he of the same opinion. Unfortunately for
Ministers and the country, that tone hail not been assumed
.before; hut it was not yet too.late to express our opinions; '
and be hoped the decision of the House would aff.srd tins
security to the smaller Powers of &trope which the ac lons
of Ministers had failed to give. He was peneaded that, if
Ministers had adopted such a tone, they might have accom-
plished their objects without involving the country in war.
13ut, whatever might be said of the glory of interfering by
arras in such a cause. there was no doubt but that it coo-
. misted with the beat policy of this country now to abstain
from hostilities.—(Hear.) Rut be would not admit that
she was therefore unable to take her part in the coolest, for
if hereafter a necessity should arise for her interference, to
put • step to the extension of thosesent talent., ofthe Ante', he
was sure there was not only spirit enough in Eagland, but
streneth enough is her resourees; to meet in any occasion.
bower pressing it might br.—(Chrsers.). The lionsierabint
ateialessetwwloded by sitter-his vote for the Address'
abilpoeLrialHOW.. is a•imaidos upeeebs defend,* thee
conduct of Ministers in the late negotiations. He can-
tended that nothing had been done to compromise thsa
i honour or character of this country. He referred to the

Circular of the lite Marquess of Contlonderry4 in which
this Government distinctly disclaimed all rights of inter-
ference with other Powell. All the remonstrances were
made in the same. tone as this Ckrcular. If this Govern-
•tnelit had reroorseeto menaces, they coubi not atop there:
They could not assume a high dictatorial tone matt-.
they ;remit to back it by war. The lion. Member then
referred to the speech of the Hon. Member for Caine,
(Mr. Macdonald), protesting against the division which
he bad made of the people of Spain. That Hon.. Mem-
ber bad divided them into two classes, in one of which

he • placed sense and talents, and in the other ail
the fools and bigots of the country. The Court of
'Curren, on the contrary. stated that the revolutionists
were the weaker party, but that they made up fur tbek
want of numbers by their activity. the Hon. Member
concluded some more observations by voting fa the
amendment.
Captain MA BERLY said he was inducted to offer him-
self to the Honsehy a sense of imperious duty. He a-as
one of those who felt great dissatisfaction at the conduct
.of Ministers at Verona. Thee did not seem, by their
acts, to have consulted the honour, character, or dignity
of the nation. Neither did they seem to hive consulted
its real interests; for, he overfed, that the country was
now nearer to war than if a more decisive tone of con-
dart had been adopted. He Meant to toich brit slightly
Atpou the long list of Papers which bad beeri laid npan
the table, and which etrahraced• the whose of the negoci7
ations at Verona. He could not, look upon these, with.;
out shame, and he blushed, as an Enelisbman, that an
English Minister was not able to flee a stronger express
glop in so flagrant a case, than ," that his master deciiii:t
ed to interfere." It was, however, gratifyirig to see that
no Gentleman in this House had the temerity to rle.
fetid that elpression. Every min admittral the'
tm-
policy.of going .to war; but *hen it was knowit
' that a case would he put, the Noble Puke shoal,"
have been provided with stronger tenon of reprObstiott
of the conAeCt of France. Instead of saving that "we
woold do all we could to allay the irritation," we ought
to have been prepared to go ;to war.—What teas IN&
reason of the difference in• the conduct olieried by
France towards Spain and Portugal.
lt'~was be-
cause of the defensive treaty which the knelv.to7iejstlier.
tavern this country and Portugal; and stm ku,w that if
Portugal was the first object of attack, it walitld 'Arm*
down upon her the arms and 'the moral power Of thia
country. But otherwise there was *Cent l'easini *ll4' Ob.
should make Portatgal•the first ebjeet of attack. • pain
could show from her history, that Ate- enjoyed COnetiftts
tional liberty before—she could !ay that she hid adopted
a Constitution which was recognised by Enttjai J.. hags
with respect to Portugal the ease seativevy different. She
enjoyed no Constitution before. 'flex easeWlas .totally
new". She had no institcr ion •in form's' times, in Solicit
sue resemblance could he trafed to' the syStein Of. p.tliri-s
cal government which site timilMit'set up, for lieroslf
awl, therefore, upon the principle oftheAlli.elbeulielvep,
she was the party most offending. 'Yet-she wart ' nits&
tacked, because she was shielded by the ittasepce qty
England.. The Noble Lord rho spoke hpst pietist
Wont. of the conduct of the Ministers
hegociations, meat have Amen, at *RDAs..art the lettings
Of the people of Spain; arall'if he at all rightly pus
derstood them.. he mast Milt* lintititi how imoamsthte it
was that they, a hatrgltty, fatale. peOple,vonld he. ib.
(Weed to consent Ass any modifications of thete.Corasfi•
tution,by which they might appdir to fiasco (PO
dignity. No doubt *the Duke •Oe Wellington sfsa,
I authorised to take an active part is a' nielliator for got
Igoof of Spain,;. bat under the elate:nit sere: in wit cu
Spain was. placed at Abe time; his gbOal of%eve,gastie
Cuesidaid us adirezt intervention, be.carite oulatboyo

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