The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-02-25 00:00:00

THE sq_4ATEsMAN,

propriation Bill, which at the end of the Session cares
tip to their Lordships' House; hot the fact was, that
frequently, particularly if the Session was lone,•, half
the money wanted for the different branches of the

'public service had been expnaded before the Appropria-
tion Bill was brought up to that House. He could sot
see any difference of principle, therefore, between the
ease he had just stated, and that of a dissolution hap-
pening in the middle of the uses! period of a Session,
when, after the meeting of the new Parliament, an Ap-
propriation Bill, including all the sums voted, might
still be passed. As to the Resell:ties passed in 17 t• 4, it.,
in his mind, proved the direct contrary of what was
urged by the Noble Earl, as it showed that the practice
of the House of Commons had been what he had just
stated; and that it was well known that the object of
passing that Resolution was to prevent a dissolution
which was suspected to he intended by the Crown. But
1 the passing such a Resolution proved that the practice
had been different to what that Resolution referred to.
With regard to the Civil List Act, it was not correctly
stated, that it had expired, as, though the aunts named
in it censed to be payable, the regulations in the Act
were of the nature of permanent regulations, and all
that hail here' done was to vote a sum for current ex-
pence% for the quarter intervening between the dissolu-
tion of the present Parliament and the calling of a new
one. He did not see the necessity of coming to aey Re-
solution upon the subject ; but at all events he could
not agree to the Resolution of the Noble Lord, which
conveyed a strong censure upon the House of Commons,
their Lord.liips having in their Address to the Throne
pledged thenowlves to concur in any measure for expe-
diting the public business. He was, however, ready to,
meet the views of the Noble Lord in some respects, by a
Resolution recognising the rights of that House, and
he therefore moved, as an Amendment, to leave out the
Resolutions after the statement of the Resolutions
of the House of Commons, and to insert, " that
this House, from the state of the public business, ac-
quiesces in these Resolutions, although no Act may be
passed to give then, effect."

The Marquis of LANDSOWN said the question was
our of the greatest importance, as affectingsthe consti-
tutional rig ilts of that House; and when it was asserted
that their Lordships had in their Address to the Throne
agreed to expedite the public business as much as pos-
sible. he must tell the Noble Earl that they had not.
agreed to abandon their constitutional rights. The
cases where the House of Commons acted in the usual
manner in their votes, without being informed of there
being any iatentiosi on the part of the Crown to dissolve
them, were totally different from the present instance,
where the infortrettion of the intention of the Crown to
dissolve the Parliament had been given, and where, con-
sequently, every arranrensent 'night have been made to
ensure a regular emir.. of proceeding. That it had been
noiformly the ease since the Revolution, for the grants
of public money nude by the other House to pass under
the review of their Lorsishir, in order to their being in•
corporated in an Art of Legislature, could not be di Shied;
and the Noble Earl most erroneously described the
Re-
solution of the house of Commons, in 178-1, when he
said that it proved the practice of the !louse to be slif-
repent. The fact was, that the Resolution was I/freely
declaratory of the law of the land ; it appeared so upon
thi face of it, and was well known to he so from the his-
tory of it. It had been most truly observed by his Noble
Friend, that for the house of Commons to agonise the
itine
Lordships,
cwas
anenyso
ii;
concur-
rencepower o of
f
theirti tws
ti 1.
'''''''''''' ci.hoeu s prec
e-
dent to set, for thefsm could he no doubt, that if those
persons who aimed at oar institutions and establishments
could unhappily obtain the ascendency, the first step of
a House of Commons constituted by thesis, would bes`fo
take away the Leglsldtlee privileges of their Lordships.
His Soils Friend had also ollattmel
lo; 4 'proceeding to which recourse had been ha "w
typed to the Civil List, it appearing that his Majesty
*laid not only, pending the dissolution, have his re•
roue as King of England, but also that whidh was
kranted to him as Prince sit Wales, sod a portion of the
hefeditary revenues of the Crown. It was highly pro-
f that the Noble Earl should give some explanation
pon this. point, as it did not appear to have been known
to what an extent the vote went.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, the vote on account
of the Civil List was for a specific sum, 200,000/. and
that it slid not in the least interfere with the settlement
of the Civil List by the new Parliament. As to the
payment of the annuities under the Civil Ist Act, it
was nothing more than would have been dose as a mat-
ter of course for the current quarter, had Parliament
continued sitting.
The Earl of DONIMIIHMORE expressed hie appro-
bation of the conduct of the Noble Earl with whom the
motion originated, at the same that be acquiesned in the
amensheent, by which he thought that quite enough was
done to protect the privileges of the House.

The amemintent was then carried without a division.

PIARNMTAPLE.

The Earl of LAUDFIRDALE presented a Petition
from the Mayor. Altfertile's, and Corporation of the Bo-
rough of Barnstable, praying to be heard by Counsel
againit the Writs Bill.—Tbe Petition was ordered to be
laid on the table.

The Karl of CA RNARVON thoeght, that though the
Petition had a right to he heard by Counsel against the
measure, as far as their interests were concerded, they
ought nut to be heard on the second reading under the
present circumstances. All that the Mayer and Cor-
poration could presume to ask was, that the word Barn-
staple should be omitted, for with the general principle
1 that was to affect other Boroughs they had nothing to
do. Upon that ground, therefore, he should oppose the
motion for the bearing of Counsel on the second reading.
tireat inconvenience would necessarily follow, if they
were nt hew the-arguments of Counsel op_ t gniat
constitutional question, in which the eon illik.4
o
.4
deep an interest, and in the disposal of which e ? hoped '
that their lordships felt how much they owed to the
other House of Parliament, and to the Comnitudoe in
general. There were four boroughs entimerated io the
Writs Bill, which, in the judgment of the other House,
would, if permitted to exercise the elective franchise, be
in all probability corruptly represented. As the mea-
sures which were considered necessary could aot be com-
pleted before. the meeting of the new Parliament, it
I would be a waste of time to go on hearing Comte! and
evidetice at their Bar upon the principle of that measures
which the pretest Parliament would not carry into ef-
feet. The Committee was the proper place to inquire
whether Barnstable ought to be included ot not ; that,
therefore, was the occasion upon which Counsel ought
to he heard, and not ma the second reading. • .
The Earl of LAUDEItDALE. coatoided Aim it was
.the uniform practice of Parliament to hear Petitions by
'Condol anst the principle of any Hill, as far as it
allreetod their ripthts, and, therefore, due they were
bound Os hear the present Petitiouevs es is sesend
reading... - ../.. .
Earl OROSVgNOR maintained that it Me* heot-
tosikel with great inconvenience, and was apt- }squired
by*, aware of the ease.
LORD CHANCELLOR said. that they were ea-
titl is be heard against the principle aa4 eineetintasor
of t Bill; it was, in fact, necessary to tire. The
enactment declared in effect that the Sheriff of the musty
should not obey the King's Writ, and he knew of bo-
roughs which had fallen hen the same state with that of
Barnstaple and the others that were deprives! of ibett

IP

vigiela, hut were afterWafds fogad to Oriestese thdoe claims
to thope rights which ought MR 10 have been invaded.
Earl OROSTENOR thought it would be a bad com-
plinseat to the House of t ointriont if their Lordships
,were toreros* their coacurrence in a measure of so musts
iinportance to them, especially as they only required •
Inspowslon of the rights till the final measure could be
determined.
The LORD CHANCELLOR conceived that the sus-
pension was itself sn evil of no small magnitude, and
therefore should be left open to the proceedings of Pe-
titions, accordiag to established usage.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN insisted that there was
a wide distinction between the suspension and the pri-
vation of a right, though the arguments of the Noble
and Learned Lord went to confound them. The 'abject
was not entitled to the same remedies in both cases.—
Besides, in the present instance, the other House was
°ale minions to retain that power which was necessary
to the ends of justice, and to protect the purity of elec-
tion. The proceeding was liable to objection, but to less
objection than the opposite course.
rd ()ACRES said, that the other House of Parlia-
ment, after a long and patient investigation, had re-
solved on the measure of suspending the writs. The
facilities which that House possessed of preventing the re-
tarns, were taken away by a premature dissolution; so
!fiat their Lordships were placed in this situation, either
to act' upon the notoriety of the vicious practices of the
*roughs, to depend on the statements of the other
House, or to go into an investigation themselves, which
they could not conduct to a close. He thoneht that,
consistently with justice to all parties, they might con-
ic** to hear the petitioners in a Comosiutte, and so avoid
the &Inv, which might enable them to continue the prac-
tices which tended to increase the dissatisfaction of the
country.
After some futher observations from the Earls of La 1J-
DanDALC and CARM savoN, in which each defended his
former sentiments, their Lordships divided on the ques-
tion. that Counsel should he beard on the second read-
lug of the Bill. The division was—
Contents
Not Contents . . .
Alajority . .
The House then adjourned.