The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-04-22 00:00:00

STAITSMAN.

luded to by the Hon. Gentleman, with some insects_ to trust It it • mysemoment cash the dapressi.et
this n
racier, contains the substance of that Treaty. 'fee of the tentiments which arose in -my mind itittis I
Treaty however is not yet ratified by all of the read this instrument. I certainly did• not think it
Allied Powers, and therefore not in a state -to be was genuine. But if the Noble Lord will 'not bring
Submitted to Parliament. But if the Hon. Gentle".; the- holiness before us in a shape that will enable us
man thinks proper to call the attention of Parliament to discuss it in a Parliamentary way, We must pro.
to it in a regular way, I shall certainly consider it ceed to its discussion out of the Pirliannaitary ways
my duty to be prepared to meet him in any discus. There Is riot a man iii the House who nits read that
shots on the subject. paper, who will not say that the 11.inta of Cammons
Mr. WHITBREAD—the Noble Lord has said will abandon its duty, if it do not Nice the earliest
that the Treaty is not yet ratified by all the Allied opportunity of offering its advice to the Crown on
Powers; but we find now that the substance of it is this subject.
true. The Noble Lord has told us that thereare in- Lord CASTLEREAGIL—It is nwt out of the
accuracies; but then lie has not told us what the course of Parliamentary usage, to bring fru ward a
nature of these inaccuracies are; whether they are motion for discussion of (hit freary, iti.ilke shape in
all inaccuradee of language. I pause till I see what which the Right Ilonoureble Gentlemattitlds it ; and
these inaccstratt ste; because I cannot conceive Parliament may, if it thinks proper, glee its ..advice
how any persOs, if the Treaty which we have seen to the Crown, on the supposition of the CrAin be,
is accurate in substance, could possibly put his hand ing on the point of entering into any engagement
to it. I would ask those who expect that we should which it may consider injurious to the interests of
HOUSE OF COMMONS. abstain from,all argument on the present occasion to . the country. What I mean to say is this, that it
EAsT INDIA LETTERS. read that.Treatv. would pruner in me to bring the document be.
Mr. TIERNEY. presented two Petitinu., the are from Mgr.
Lord CASMAREAGII.--1 think that I have i forel'ttir he
im
Parliament in the unratified shape in which it is,
rt.aots, Ship-..warm, &r. having currespotidenee with Ind
the other from -the Patents, Friend.. nod Relations of persons . shown
k sufficient disposition to candour in my con. !arid when it is not binding on these Powers who Are
in the Civil and giiitt,,rL service of th . Company egninst the duct towards the Hun. Gentlemen this evening, bow- l the parties to it. This would he taking the sense of
great of the Ship lA•ltcr Act of tart Session. He stated .
die great inronveitienr. s resultiog from that At t. Either yI, a . ever mach he may be indiaposed to give myself or ' Parliament on a step which could not -come properly
must prey at the Gener.il fast-Office the whole of the postage : those who act with me credit for candour on any 1 before it in relief of our own retpoesibility. Iles' •
to twin, in which caw. von might take the chance of a cm; occasi I have told the Ron. Gentleman that if Majesty's Minister', however, take a more correct.
'
vevatwe 'by •oane extra vessel, or you most p‘y st third of the on.
postage, and then scud the letter as vott tom yoniwl f. The Ihe can show that any practical purpose can possibly and constitutional line. We have obtained the sane:-
whole Inland postage of India war also t,.• he paid by the per- be answered by it, I shall be' prepared- to answer lion of Parliament for the adoption of preanninirarr
tun to whom the letter was riddretweil. This WWI a scheme of 1 •
question. But when I IsaYe given him this mensuree, but no senction for any other measures:
taxaiimi atiorether new in principle, and tittle-i the revenud I Ils
rilir I itZerid,llll it were very considerable indeed, ought to be it:- answer, upon what principle does he conceive him- and for these we.rest on ourown responsibility. Bat it
that ; self entitled, contrary to all the rules of Parliament, would he allowed that-It is-always competent to the' •
n'he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
all di,custion on Chit.
maject had better be pa.tpotted until the ,to enter into a premature discussion Hear hear!) Ministers of the CroWn 10 ndriae war if they think
whole plain shnu'd he in HI tivity. The Cntre.pandenee with In- ! —or to t adeayour to throw out calumnies, not sup- proper, subject to. their. own discretion and respott-
dia would then he placed on the same radius as taut to oar either ported !
..' argument, against any proceedings •• of sibility. His Majesty's Ministers would be; acting
colonel possroinm.
Mr. FIN LA Y recommended the repeal of the Act of inn which he disapproves?—[Hear, hear, hear!]---I tin a most unconstitutional, and not only In await..
Sewlon, from which the commerce of the cottony had suffered . eel Minty consider such a mode of proceeding a viola. constitutional, bet a pusillanimous manners if 'lll4
the most gritlioui injury.
I Lion of the order of the House.
Mr. FORI3P.S and Mr. W. SMITH represented the hard-endeavoured to extort from Parliament in an latpitio
ship. resulting from the expence of the postage of letters to In- i Mr. WHITBREAD.--The Noble Lord hes feet state of information, a sanction for thus
din, ns Aid also Sir J. MACKINTOSH, aho characterized ' thought proper to call me to order in a speech which mealures• which they might ultimately adopt. Bet if
the existing menture no inhumao and impolitic, tending gradual- . .
lv,hy the interruption which it. gave to the correspondence of is itself extremely disorderly. I contend, that I any Honourable Member conceives that advice
filend-hip and arction, to extinguish the social and domestic : have a perfect right to deliver my sentiments on this ought to be given to the Crown, not to act in a man.
off, co
ma,and thus to sever the most tender hut solid ties whit*
. subject, on the question of the Adjournment of the ner which he conceives is likely to compromise the
bound men to their native country, nod induced them to cherisb
with foliducis use hope of It return to it. I House. I have a right to express my approbation or country, and lead to measures injoriour to our own
After a few words from Mr. EustitNaeole and Mr. disapprobation of the Treaty, on the avowal of it interest and•the general leterest of Europe, it is cer-
FAWCETT, the Petitions were ordered to lie ua the table. '
Iby the Noble Lord, and to oppose the Adjourn- teinly competent to such Honourable Gentlettuto to
NAPLES.
mprit of the House, if I think proper. The Noble raise the question in the House ■and to bring it under
Mr. HORNER, adverting to the hostilities that
had been commenced by the Neapolitan army, wish- ; Lord has accused me of making use of the language discussion. But it is not competent to his Majesty's
ed to kuow from the Noble Lord opposite, Oat iof calumny. It is impossible to speak of the pro. Ministers to take the initiative of bringing it befit,*
was the state of the relations of his Majesty's Go- • ceedings of the Congress in terms of calumny.— i Parliament, and of taking the sense of Parlionieat
vernment with that of the present King of Naples? 'Via", hear!]—I might, if I thought proper, on imperfect information. . •
Did a Treaty subsist between them ? Or, if eel Move, that the House should sit to-morrow. Bat Mr. WiIITBIt EAD.—The WobleLord has used it
formal Treaty subsisted, had, or had• oat the Nobtej as the *Ntble Lord has avowed the Treaty, I as' new word, which he seems to have borrowed frog
Lord given to the King of Naples, in the coarse of. father disposed to pet the question, That the sop., Congress; fbr I do not recollect to have ever heard
the preceding year, such assurances as pledged the
plies be Withheld, which, by our former votes, we ex.- the word initiative made née of in the House beforei
;
good faith of this country, to preserve tq him his pressed odr resolution to confide to the Crown.—l ;If he will not lake the initiative, as he is pleated to
Crown ? I wish farther to ask the Noble Lord, whether the i call it, in this measure, in the choice of diSkealliaf
Lord CASTLEREAGH replied, that this subject ;Treaty has not been ratified by England, if it has . to whiCh we are reduced from that' eircionstanoes
was one of those branches of public questions on not been ratified by all the other Allied Powers? knowing, as we do, the deep plunge made by Mt
which he felt it his duty not at present to reply to Because the Duke of Wellington, if the Treaty hes ; Majesty's Government towards ear, without 'Mg
such enquiries as those made by the Honourable not been ratified by England, must have acted on . question being regularly before it, the Rouse must
and Learned Gentleman, who, if he thought proper,
his own authority. We ought to know the initrue.`l pause before it grants any further sopply, for 'what
,
might give notice of a motion for information on, the (ions which have been 'teen to the Duke of Wall*: was
;eaUed defensive preparations,. when'a tooted
subject. 1 ton—or whether he has 'acted without any instruct. : that the Government will convert those :neasures.og
Mr. lIORNER observed, that his question car-
tion at all. The Noble Lord has acknowledged, (defence into measures of offence—and list° it/1*
tainly admitted of a direct affirmative or negative.
that theTreety which .we have seen is substantielli 1 which will be prosecuted not only in the .noitt 411114
—.!
•reeeder correct, andlie has also' owned that it contelned hi. i graceful, but the most hopeless matinee. My diety
[Hear, hear !]—lie gave notice, that on
foe the teemeee.* enyja What sati.'istiq' amtraftat ayg- thiqr, calls on use jo open an adjournment of the Mises
ae'unight he would move ass Address
itiaCcuraCiii 'orTingusei?—{n sulfitien-IRll'ttre Mr6ble imlt'terconrebeforrowtewillts -
of producing the information which he bad described.l itte they
1 dal inaccuracies," sold Lord Castlereagh, across i the terms of this Treaty; and I hope Parliament wilt
GENOA.
Mr. PONGONEW w;uhittl to ask the Noble Lord, the table.)—No; it seems they were inaccuracies of ;pot be guilty of such indiscretion, as to acter-Onti
whets the Papers respecting Genoa would be laid on , another kind. Will the Noble Lord give us the Noble Lord to proceed until he has ',tonged' tie
the table? . 1 Treaty, or tell us whether it has been ratified by :1 country into is situation without a remedywhen he
Lord CASTLEREAGH replied, that he hoped to , Great Britain? Will he put me and the House in a I will come before us with the whdle weight 'of
lay them on the table by six o'clock that evening. condition of knowing how much we are to except 1 his responsibility, and which responsibility 1 hope
LORD NELSON'S ESTATE. , from, or add to, this Treaty, which we have seen ; the Rouse will melte him feel is not a mere Par.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER in an article from Vienna in one of the Papers ?—I ' liamentary term [Hear, hear, hear!], but a wood
moved, That at its rising the House should adjourn ' conceive, Sir, that my conduct has not appeared to !of real weight; and that after talking of It, andt-MI:
to Monday. 1 you as disorderly, from your not interrupting me. I pouring about it for years, the time is atow-coitai
Mr. WHITBREAD, before that question was I conceive that I have a right to move, That the , when we shall turn the name into the thing, clef
put, wished to know if any thing was intended to be House should not adjourn even till Monday next, make him feel what it really is. ' Under these eke.
moved in the Committee of Supply that evening 2 1 till the House should come to a knowledge of this . cumstaeces, my proper couree•is, in a•constitotievnit
In the first place, it was rumoured, that the adds. document. : and Parliamentary manner, to. prevent the' soppliel
1
tional sum of WWI. was to be voted to the family off Lord CASTLEREAGH.—The Hon. Gent. may : from being granted, till I know the situation itt UM -
Lord Nelson, in order to complete the purchase of ; bring forward his Motion as early as he thinks it his ! the country is.
the estate for the family. He had beets Informed, duty to do so. I have no right to complain of him I Lord CASTLEREAGH.—The Honourable.aeta.
that a Gentleman in Suffolk had imagined that he, , for this; but what I complain of is his attempt to tleman will never find me disposed to 'shrink Wee
for a sum within the grant of Parliament,.had con.; enter into that sort of unsupported observation any responsibility which I have incurred. With pee
eludes' a bargain with the Commissioners, for the which cannot be said to be a fair examination of the spect to the course of the Honourable Mensbef, ,It
sale of a suitable mansion and estate for that family,' subject, and which can lead to no practical good. must say that it certainly does not consist in aeOlig
until he unexpectedly received a letter from the Soli- The Hon. Gent. has aked me whether the Treaty has . the Executive Government with those posterity/hide
citor to the Treasuiy, declaring the bargain off.— been ratified on the pert of Great Britain? I have are necessary for it in the present arduous siteeslew
He thought that if a suitable place could thus be no hesitation in returning for answer to the Hon. of affairs. If the Honourable Gentleman is Viol
found within the amount of the grant that had already Gent. that his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, disposed to concur in these measures which his:Ms.
been agreed to by Parliament, the House, should with an explanation of one of the Articles, has re- jetty's Government• hate thought advisabhilit she
hesitate before it vested a larger sum. . tified this Treaty with the Allied Powers. present situation of the country, it is not (mike sob.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, i Mr. WHITBREAD.—I wish, Sir, to put this jest of supply that he ought to raise the question—.
as well es we could collect his answer, replied, that he question in a shape that the House may take it into he ought to raise it on its own merits,' [llear,heerl
would explain the subject to the House on Monday. consideration without delay ; because, by adopting a from the Ministerial side.] If the Hoottemble Gent.
TREATY OF VIENNA. different line of conduct, we may find when we wish tleman is defertnined to persist in thili.cooritt, 41 k a
Mr. WHITBREAD proceeded to observe, that to express oar disapprobation, that it is too late, proof that he shrinks from the merits of the guess
feeling as be did from a consideration of all the cir- when we are already involved in an unfortunate and tion. [Hear, hear ! from the Opposition.] I re.
cumstances, from a consideration of the alleged par. calamitous war. Does the Noble Lord intend to in. peat it again—it is a proof of his shrinking from the
ties, from a consideration of the supposed conditions, , woke the country in a war first, and then ask the merits of the question—while I, on the contrary, to
that the paper which had that day been pUblished its' House to strengthen the hands of Government ? night have afforded him every -facility for bringing ,
a partial m:snncr, purporting to be a Treaty befireek , Our situation will be very different between one al- the question fOrward in a regular manner. lever?
the Allied Powers, signed at Vienna on the 25th or tentative and another. I am sure the House will Person must be convinced that the Treaty cannot be
March, could be tin other than a forgery, he never. not consent to vole any supplies on the principle of laid before the House in its present state by h's Ma.
theless could not refrain from asking the Noble Lord ' this Treaty ; but I am not sure, when we are once jetty's Ministers, without their acting in a manila
the question. If it should turn oat not to be so, this ' engaged in war, even wider this foolish Treaty, that inconsistent with the duty which they owe to tkeie
most extraordinary fact would appear—that it was we shall not Indisposed to grant them. : country ; and I consider, therefore, the measure
actually signed at the time when the Noble Lord de. i Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON asked, whe. which the Honourable Gentleman lies chosen to
chaired in that House that the question of peace or tber any discussion now could be productive of pursue, with the view of obstructing his Majesty's
war was wholly undecided! I greater harm than what had been done by the bp. Government, at onlyWrimtistg withe bad grace whet
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he certainly felt it . pearanceof such documents as the public bad lately must at list be granted; and rendering that strength
his duty to avoid, if possible, entering into an ergo-' seen ? What a ould be the use of the information pro- , which the -House hate committed to the Crown hot.
meat on subjects which could not with 'propriety be . mised by the Noble Lord, when the country was at. dequatie to its object. If the 'lion. Gent. is sincere
yet brought before the House. But with respect to ! veady involved in a war ?. No discussion could be so in OW' inteethin,whic. li he has anneunced-of impeach.
the question of the Ilon. Gentleman, if he conceived i InjoFjoos to the Noble Lord as the belief entertained ing tnts:aktd ithe wishes at the Tante time to strengthen
that it was his duty to offer an advice to the Grote? by Qte Public, that his conduct was such as it appeared the &mins% let him bring the question fOriare ore
lon the subject to which it related, and intended to to- have, been from these documents, which had its own merits; bet let him not make this* pretext
bring that subject before the House in a regular way, , Icimitedidispgreeable impression against him through.. for weakening the arms
in which the Country is at of the Executive Govern.
1
he (Lord Castlereagh) should consider that circum- out the whale country. meat in the iirduout crisis
stance as a justification for his giving an answer to the it/. PQNSONBT.—I am not sure, from what , present aced_.p_ [Loud cheering on the Ailinietedigt
question.
"slltfromi.the Noble Lord, if' this 'object is soon tp ttde of the Housel .•
- . ,
Mr. WHITBREAD.—Then the inference ftom , Ili 'fought forward in such a shape as wilt afford u' 1
.Mr. WHITBREAD.—When I vented that=
what has fallen just now from the' Noble Lord iklitts*Ortunity of discustion • for if' lam silent op- •p tea, I understood-from the Noble Lord that
that the Treaty which has appeared in one of the op tl►i.present occasion, it is from an aliernative let,; and though ItOttilnede 4.
' from the circumstance : was still let,
papers of this day is a genuine Treaty. '.of eat eobjeCt not yet being before us in such a shape of my friends neat we that they wont& snintsrett
Lord CASTLEREAGH.—Does the Hon. Gentler. ;Mgt 'wattle& Parliamentary notice of it ? Is it I likely find theme's' duped,' still I had tha.* thabe •
man mean to say, that it is his intention to call the ! the inientionOt hie Noble Lord to bring the Treaty i rity of the Noble Leal end the Chstiretlise:Wf MI
attention of the House to .it? If so, I have no heal.' soon before?, in a 'lupe that we can take .Parlia. 1 Exchequer that theta was an aiternatife WCitilltip of
lotion in admitting that a Treaty was signed at Vienna mentary notiee of it ? If each is not his intention, I I war.
.Bat new Lain that there ielisolditsideitio.,S4-4.
I i .
• , .
on the 25th of March and that the Newspaper al- must prof* to some other cootie. Ido not choose temente; "'sit if slivitilw
---.• .....c la any- feit4ll). es* •
• . %i.:

HOUSE OF LORDS, Aran. 21. •
Counsel was heard further in the ewe of aivirtton Rn-
hertom and nthem—Final considerat;ea this dray
Counsel was fully heard upon the Irish came, Calelooill v.
Gavin. —Jodgme it affirmed.
In the emir of the ComirmAioneno of the Caledanitin Canal v.
Cul. Alexander Grant. Mr. Leach was heard ns leadittg Counsel
for the A opeu.iii.—Fin her hearing on Dlmmbsy.
The appeal of Odell e. Croon: being culled an for Judgment,
the I) of the Irish Chancery was Affirmed.
Lord LI Y ER POOL preserved various Papers relative fa
Genoa, and stated that with a view to Save time .they were al-
rtady printed.

NAPLES.
Lord GREY said, that ns be uuderstood it would be Incon-
venient for some Noble Lords to attend On Monday se'naisitt,
the day he had rived for his motion. he !weed In move that the
Order for snmmunitu their Lordships nn that day should be dis-
charged. and Tuesday substituted instead.
The Pauper Lunatic Bill and sevetat Prirnle Bills were
brotteht up from the Commons.
The Greet.land Whale Fishery Bill •braii the Prison Chop.
lairs' Bill, were riontiotti d.—Adjoutned.

's ~{~
,~

~

~~

.t..- .1114,

'

e Witisters, however, take a more correct•
titutional line. We have obtained the sane*"
'arliament for the adoption of precantioirary
1, but an sanction fur any other measures: s.
hese we.rest on our on n responsibility. But it
e allowed that-it is-always competent to the •
of the Croien 10 advise war if they think
subject to their own discretion and respots.
His Majesty's Ministers would be; nth% '
t unconstitutional, and not only IS
ional, bat a pusillanimous manneri If ':Tier
red to extort from Parliament in an knish s:
• of information, a sanction for those
•which they might ultimately adopt. Bid it
ioureble Member conceives that advice
be given to the Crown, not to act in a man.
h he conceives is likely to compromise the
and lead to measures injurious to our own
ind•the general interest of Europe, it is cer-
mpetent to such Honourable Gentle:hie to
question in the House and to bring it under
it. But it is not competent to hits Majesty's
to take the initiative of bringing it before
nt, and of taking the seuse of Parlionieat
feet information: . •
rfltlßlt EA D.—The WobleLord has seed ti
d, which be seems to have borrowed frog
i; fbr I do not recollect to have over heard
initiative made pee of in the House beforei
II not take the initiative, as he is pleased to
this measure, in the choice of &Acuities
s we are reduced from that ciromnstantet
, as we do, the deep jdunge made by Mt
s Government towards war, without ltsti
being regularly before it, the Rouse must
'ore it grants any further supply, for what
td defensive preparations,. when'it know!
3-overnment will convert those :neasures-s4
MO measures of offence—and into 'lists*
II be prosecuted not only in the .'snort 4E14
but the most hopeless matinee. My dot)?
se_to opose an adjournment of the Mese,
hie abet' err 'come beers -oteselltis
of this Treaty; and I hope Parliament' will
ilty of such indiscretion, as to atifer4ll4
iord to proceed until he has plongod4 tfss
nto a situation without a remedywhen he
le before us with the whcile weight
nsibility, and which responsibility I hope
e will mike him feel is not a mere Par.
y term [Hear, hear, hear!], bat a word
eight; and that after talking of it, andhli..
:boat it for years, the time is new•eateti
shall turn the name into the thing', and
I feel what it really is. Under thmo Are
es, my proper course is, in a•constitotiestot
amentary manner, to prevent the supplies
g granted, till I know the situation hi Usieh -
Ty is.
:AST LEREAGH.—The Honourable•allio.
ill never find me disposed to 'shrink ftemil
rnsibility which I have incurred. Witte see
the course of the Honourable Men:beef
that it certainly does not consist in arnAtig
1- •
utive Government with those powers whidk
nary for it in the present arduous siteasloo '
If the Honourable Gentleman is slot
to concur in those measures n hick hitt Ms.
.overnment have thought advisabhiln the
[Nation of the country, it is not (milk sob.
ipply that he ought to raise the question—.
to raise it on its own merits.' [Hear, hear.
Ministerial side.] If the Hoottersitle Gatti
defermined to persist in thitfeettishi, 41 k a
it he shrinks from the merits of the guess
fear, hear ! from the Opposition.] I re.
aitt—it is a proof of his shrinking from the
the qnestion—while I, on the contrary, to
e afferded him every facility for bringing ,
ion foiward in a regular manner. Emir •
tst be convinced that the Treaty cannot be
e the House in its present state by h's Ma.
inisters, without their acting in a manses
,nt with the duty which they owe to their
and I consider, therefore, the measure
e Honourable Gentleman has chosen to
rith the view of obstructing his Majesty's
rat, at onirgrantiwg with's bad grace whet
,et be granted; end rendering that strength
•
:House have committed to the Crown ins.
e its object. If the Ron. Gent. is sincere
ntien which he has announced of impeach.
td if -he wishes at the sane time to strengthen
tide; let him bring the question ferarard ou •
exits ; bat let him not make thita pretext
Wing the arms of the Ktecutive Govern.
to iirduous crisis in which the country is at
aced. [Loud cheering on the Ailinisterial
e House.l .•
HITBREAD.—When I granted the, eglifa
nderstOod- from the Noble Lord ibit 11
,n alternative left ; and thought tot-enS. 4.
ends neat we that they *mild siveia!`yett
themselv duped; still had !bele:thee •
e Noble Lord and the Ghstioritoc.if 14 - • ,
r that tbese was an aiternetifeNr,f t.i iiMge. se
t now /Are that there Lillis& fdevtlil std
if 1 orgileite any- WO. *PIM •
• •
• - • •
t 14. •
• •

plies, it cannot be for defence, hut for offence. and
in a cause the moat desperate sod hopeless. To the
Ninsider4 who could make this country. a party to
rels a Treaty, even after a vole for strengthening
use hands of Government—after what I hear of their
conduct, I can no longer, consistent with my duty,
entrust the supplies. [lleac hcar!j The Noble
Lord has talked of the facility which he has given
us. What facility has he given us ? The allowing
us to debate on a Treaty which he says is imperfect-
ly before us. Will the Noble Lord tell us the na-
ture of the Treaty ? lie has told us already that
the one we have seen is substantially inaccurate;
and thus we shall go to a discussion, trusting to be
formed, in the course of the debate, what is the
ditleret:ce between the Treaty which we have seen,
and the real one. And this is what he calls afford-
us facility ! He does me the additional favour
to tell me how I ought to conduct myself as a Mem-
ber of Parliament. The public are better judges of
my conduct than I am ; but sure I am, whatever
their ispi:.ion may be, I will not go to the Noble
Lord for advice. Upon these grounds, and con-
vinced as I ens, that the line of conduct which I am
pursuing is one that is constitutional and proper,
end the only one which can be followed wills interest
Or to the country. I shall certainly persist
in it, though she one which the Noble Lord has
pointed out would no doubt he more.advantageous to
himself; and %hen the Noble Lord pointed out the
line of conduct which be conceived proper for me, I
belirve he rather expressed Isis own opinion (hats the
course which the country would expect or wish me
to follow.

Lord CASTLEREAGH.— Whenever the Hon.
Gentleman thinks be has sufficient grounds for insti-
tuting a mniion for censure of me, I believe this is a
duty which he will not fail to discharge ; and so long
as I see tio notice to twat purpose entered on
the honk, I shall feel satisfied that there is no
ground in the Honourable Nlember's mind to war-
rant him in such a course.--Will the House
listen to the Honourable Gentleman's proposal for
withholding the supplies and weakening, the hand's
of Government, on grounds which the lion. Member
will not litiog forward on their own merits ?

Sir JOHN NEWPORT.— I had a right when I
dissented from my Honourable Friend (Mr. Whit-
bread) on a late occasion, to consider that there was
still an, alternative left—that war was not then de-
termined on—and I now find out that I am duped by
the Noble Lord—(Neer o—and that to the Noble
Le,rd I ought not to hare given credence, for the
question •chirp he told me was pending, was actually
determined. The Noble Lord tells us now that the
Treaty, with some substantial inaccuracies, is cor-
rect. lie gives us, in his usual way, an answer,
and a qualified auswer, so as to put it out of our
power ewer to fix any precise opinion on him. But
that night the Noble Lord told us expressly that
there was ab decision, and that when the decision
was already taken. He now said that we ought not
to refuse the supplies which were given for au alter.
native, but which alternative did not exist. I can-
not very well conceive what the Noble Lord means
by using the words not shrinking from responsibility,
because he is certainly shrinking from responsibility,
Jr< he does not give in this document. When will
the Nettie Lord give it to es ? When it will be tbo
late for us to save the country from destruction—
from a renewal of a war which has sunk our finances
to tbo 'state in which they now are, which has
ground to the dust every class of the community.—
Then the Noble Lord will give it when it is too late.
As to the boasted responsibility of the Noble Lord
at such a period, it would be nothing worth. What
compensation would it be then to the country, even
if we were to follow the Noble Lord to the block ?
Before war is determined on the House ought to

have an opportunity of interpoiing their advice.—
The coarse of my Honourable Friend is regular and
tonstioutional. When Parliament has not sufficient
documents to enable it to form a judgment, it is the
only legal method of preventing an abuse of power.
When one sees Ministers treating in a double sense,
with the public—when we see ourselves out the point
alf a renewal of the calamities which were brought
on us by the war of 179 J, and involved again by the
very same acts which were then practised ; a war
which has reduced every mall's income to the third
of its value, mid then are told of the responsibility
of Ministers, it is impossible to preverve our tem-
pers. Sir, I scorn such a responpihility. [their !]
My Ilout. Friend, whom the Noble Lord has thought
fit to advise, has sat iti this House infinitely longer
than the Noble Lord himself, and lie has done the
duty of the country, unpaid, unsalaried, and unsti-
pended, and the love and gratitude of his country
will follow him.

Lord CASTI,!':REAGII.—As to the eulogy pro.
noutieNl by the Right Honourable Baronet on his
friend, it is one in which I am by no means die.
posed to concur. The Right Honourable Baronet
has proceeded in a manner which is certainly calcu-
lated to be paint.' to the feelings of the person to
whom he is opposed. I conceive that it is not in-
consistent to strengthen the hands of the Crown, and
at the same time give it good advice. If there is an
impression on the mind of any Honourable Member,

that a certain course is in the contemplation of his
Majesty's Ministers, it is open to him to move the
House to give advice to the Crown on the subject;
and, therefore, to obstruct the supplies rather than
offer advice to the Crown, is not in any sense ne.
cescary. With respect to the line of conduct which
his Majesty's ►Ministers have pursued, I shiny pe-
remptorily that there has been any delusion what-
ever.—[Lasses from the Oppositiots.l—labould have
trespassed in the line of duty which I ought to have
pursued had I thrown myself then on the House,
and said that war was either taken or net taken.
gave no opinion to the House on the probability of
either peace or war. [ merely stated that we were
placed in such a case of exigency as 'Night to induce
us to strengthen the hands of Government for either
war or peace, and respecting which Ministers would
afterwards come to Parliament. The Right Ron.
Baronet says that there was then no alternative.—
What the probability of war was, I left to the House
coNeet. I mid that the principle on which his
Majesty's Ministers placed the/general system of war
or peace, week' be 'minty iduenced by the general
feeling of the Powers with whom we act—road how.
ever highly the Bight Rom. Barone ;lief feel himself
wairanted in isbuciadine Iree.thedecuteent there is

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