The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-07-20 00:00:00

INSURRECTIONS IN IRELAND.

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The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the second reading
of the Bill for continuing the Irish Insurrection Act,
and at the same time entered into the reasons which
rendered the measures necessary at this time. This
measure would not impose any restraint upon the liberty
of the subject, which the safety of the state did not
periously call for. The question for their Lordships to
consider was, whether such a general disturbance did
exist in Ireland, as to call for a measure of this kind.
If such existed, it was the duty of Government to afford
the necessary security to the peaceable inhabitants. He
was happy to say there was no necessity for renewing
the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, and as to the
power proposed to be given to the Irish Government,
the continuance of that power was now only proposed as
a measure of security. It was not the disposition of the
Irish Government to put the law in force, except in cases
of necessity. It appeared from the despatches lately re-
ceived from the Lord Lieutenant, that a conahlerableim-
provemeot bad taken place in the peace of that country,
since the passing of the Act at the beginning of the Ses-
sion. This improvement he attributed to the powers
given him bp that Act; and he conceived that the doing
awsy tli.see powers, might be attended with the most
1 injurious conseqa-ecees. No case whatever had oc-
curred, in which power, bad not been properly exec
cised, and the Parliament would not do its duty if it
did not continue the same to the Government of Ire-
land, so that the loyal inhabitants of that country might
enjoy the security which they had a right to expect.
The Marquess of LANSDOWNE said, that after what
had just been stated, he should not feel justified in offer-
ing any opposition to this Will, as it had the safety of
Iroleud for its object. But a: the same time he must
condemn the want of attention that had long prevailed,
with regard to taking any steps to remove the existing
evil. Nothing was done to correct the disorders that
had long prevailed in Ireland, and a measure of this
kind would only have the effect of perpetuating them.—
That house was certainly bound to give effectual
protection to the inhabitants of Ireland, hn' at the
same time they were bound to adopt a permanent sys-
tem for the future tranquillity of that country, founded
on Constitutional principles ; and whenever that plan
was to be adopted they must cease to administer such
a law as this, for the people of Ireland must eventually
look to the protection of the law, and not to the discre-
tion of a Lord Lieutenant. That would be the only
means of bringiag back the people of Ireland to the en-
joyment of the Constitution. While he supported the
Bill generally, there was one clause in it which he must
oltie.ct to, and that was, the clause which prevented the
people offending under the act of having the benefit of a
trial by jury. If the Bill passed with that clause, there
was no remedy for any persons who might suffer under
oppression. Ile thought there ought to be a clause
holding ont an admonition to Nlagistrates, that if they
exercised their power oppressively, they were liable here-
after to have their conduct brought before the considera-
tion a jury.
Lord ELItENBOROOOII, thotigh he disapproved of
the principle of the Bill, felt himself bound to agree to
it, as it afforded a protection which the people of Ireland
were by habit brought to expect. In giving his consent
I to this Bill, he held the Government to he more distinctly
boned to introduce measures of conciliation.

The Earl of LIMERICK supported the Bill. If it slid
not pass. he was convinced there would be no security
for the lives sad property of the loyal part of the in-
habitants of Ireland. With respect to the anise on the
übjeet of actions, he was afraid that if any change was

J took plias .
pie, all was peace and prosperit

Lord HOLLAND bad been of
a Bill like the present, and whet
his political career, that vote lw
his conscience, and was the oni
cerely repented. His objection
tore of the powers which it Brant
as he was a Member of Parhali,rt
no man. Why should their Ltertl
of government for Ireland, Ali,
for ZkIM years formed the aceui
which she laboured at present
table chewed what were the hat
was said that the Irish had no •
were those laws respectable ?
could they be respected ? It had
Lord Lieutenant of Ireland had
venting an Orange Procession, •
ple from such gratuitous and
had he not that power? Add .
him such as these? As to the
magnitude was owing to the spec!
their Lordships were on the eve
land he were furnished as a IW

as the present, he would throw
refuse to execute such a law.

great e►il of Ireland, it became
to correct it; but how could the
lishing the Unson, and the law
opposed this Bill, because it re;
whole Magistracy of Ireland.
of those who feared for their

the very persons to whom he
powers; for no passion was t
than fear. Ile would prefer gi
tary than to a magistracy su
country had been told iu anotl

an hydropkobia of the militarl
from that expression, there was
Ireland than of schoolmasters-

schoolmasters in the country,

ployrd such an expression woui
from the same phraseology, his
seriously beaten not to he laugh.
worils.—(Laughter.) With rest.
which his Noble Friend objected,
taiss'y be better without it. But'
ing and infamous Acts of lode
Noble Lords when they went hi
at the records of the horri'ulz
place in Ireland under the losui
trials in which Judge., with te,
qnence in their mouths, were it
consequence of the Indemnity
What promises of inquiry and
not been made at the opening
grant Ministers their Bill% and
any thing ; bet the Bills once
&rations ,and promises were
conceived that the present use.
adapted to put down existing
less objectionable, and that it
instead of removing them. U'
give his vote against the Bill.
The Bill was then read a second
he commixed on Monday, for •.-*

suornoued.
Adjourned at a quarter befori

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Mad. In it, the effect plight* to paralyse the effort a
toil( agistrate,. . • i ,
Lord REDESDALE conceived that the calamities of •
Ireland arose chiefly out of the imperfect administration
of the lams. The common people of that country were
capable of being made obedient to thelates there, as they
were here; and he was sure that see!. an administration of
justice as would secure tarn in the safety of their persons
and property, would remove all the evils complained of. - i
The Earl of DARNLEY, gave his consent to the bill
under the same qualifleation as other Noble Lords. He le •
expressed a metal confidence in the Noble Marquess at
the head of the government of Ireland, but thought that
some explanation was due reskcting his conduct, iu al-
lowing a scene lately to take place in lenblin, whiell aas II •
' ;
Mettler,: to excite strong party fee:Mg. Hr strorgly
condemned proceedings whit li made the name of the 1
founder of British liberty a means of maintaining party
animositiee. With regard to Ireland, tot real good could
be expected front palliatives. It was ner ytogo to
.
the root of the evil ; and if no abler hand took up the
'
urgeut subject of the situation of Irelend, he would him- s •
self bring it (eroded early in the teat Session of Pattie- ,
mint. .
The Earl of LIVERPOOL wished to inform the Ne- .
ble Lord, that with regard to the procession to welch he
1..
alluded. he was authorised to say, it took place contrary .
to the wishes of the Lord Lieutenant ; that the Noble
Marquess (Wellesley) had used his utmost endeavours •
to prevent the procieding from taking place; and that
these endeavours would kart been effectual. had there net • t
been some doubt as to how far he might be • anchoristel • f 11
by law in interfering. If any one had stated to the No-
ble Marquess that those proceedings were likely to tend
to a breach of the peace, they would not be suffered to d ,
take place. But the high legal authorities in Ireland
I
expressed their doubt'', that without smelt a preliminary 1 e •
step, the procession could not be prevented. ei •
i
' The Earl of DARNLEY assurer' the Noble Lord, that I .•
.1
he did not mean Witty that the'proceedine in questions 't
had taken place in consequence of any connivance on the • .!
part of the Lord Lientenene. '' •
The LORD CHANCELLOR declared, that from all
the information he had heard on the subject, he was con.
winced that the Noble Marquess had done all the law al- ' '
lowed Maio do, to prevent the proceeding in question;
but that under all the circumstances, it was not in his • .• •. .
power to do so.
The Earl of DONOUGIIMORE supported the mea-
sure, and read extracts from the despatches on the table
to prove its necessity. The house aught be certain that
as long as the Noble Martinelli at the head of the Irish •
Government, could govern that country by the ordi-
nary laws, be would not apply fur increased powers. It
was not fair to call die present Pleasure a Government , i
1' , y
measure ; it was one called for by all wen of property in - 1
Ireland, and he himself supported it as a i• ••utletuan of .
that country. ' • ,
The Earl of ROSSLYN feared, from all that had
passed this night, that they were not to look upon tl•is .
measure as a temporary measure, bet as one from which • .
it would be difficult ever to rid Ireland, and which week'
tend wore to aggravate than to allay the existing cauos
of irritation in bat country. Was this Bill likely to
~ . e •
impress the Irish people with an idea that they were ee•
....
to look for protection to the laws. how then would it
tend to remove the great cause of all their evils, which
was said to be want of respect for the laws? i. , I
The Earl of RODEN gave his reluctant consent to-
the Bill, as he conceived that no other measure was so
well calcalated to meet present difficulties and to re-
' store order and trenvillity among the people. He con-
' tended that one of the principal aid main evils of Ire-
• was the absence of its Gentry and Nobility, and the
• want of their influence and example ; and on this point
he spoke from experience, for he had seen that iu those
1 parts of the country where Noblemen and Gentlemen re-
' waived, and took pains to improve arid educate the pro- t
, ple, all was peace and prosperity.
Lord HOLLAND bad been once induced to vote for
t .
a Bill like the present, and when he viewed the wh.ie of
his political career, that vote lay lake a lump of lead ou
his couscience, and was the only one of which he sir-
k i
l. eerily repented. His objection to the Bill was the na-
',
ture of the powers which it granted, and which, as long.
' as he was a Member of Parliement he would grant to
° no man. Why should their lordship persist in a line .
r of government for Ireland, which, it was admitted, had 1
• for 000 years formed the accumulation of evils under It . 1 1 I
1 which she laboured at present. 'flie measure on the i
• table shrived what were the laws of that country. It '.l 14
was said that the Irish had no respect for the laws, bat i
, •
' were those laws respectable ? It they were not, how I, 1
e could they be respected ? It had just been said that ;ha
; Lord Lieutenant of Ireland had not the power of pre-
e venting an Orange Procession, and of rcacuing the pro- 0 ;
* ple frotu such gratuitous and irritating insults. IVlty •
o had he not that power? Aod if he had not, why give
8 hint such as these? As to the tell of Absentees, its
' 1• i
's nuegnitude was owing to the species of laws to which
'' their Lordships were on the eve of adding. If in Eng. 1 i •:'
.- land he were furnished as a Magistrate with such a law ... o i
7, as the present, he would throw up his commission, and • •r.
5. refuse to execute such a law. It Absentees formed the
.8
great evil of Irelani, it bee ante the duty of 'het house • '
g to correct it; but how could that be done without abo• 1 .
•Ii
°° lisping the Unison, and the law of primogeniture ? He • • i i •1
L'" opposed this Bill;because it was liable to abuse by the
r whole Magistracy of Ireland. It was put in the Fiends
it of those who feared for their property and their tier., I l ,
°' the very persons to whom he would not entrust such
" powers; for no passion W3S more creative of cruelty I Ie ,:
than fear. He would prefer giving power to the milt- ~4 r
•
it tary than to a magistracy so situated. But then the
r- country had been told iu another
,place that there war
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et an hydrophobia of the military. If he were to judge
st front that expression, there was less want of militaty an • ,
I, Ireland than of schoolmasters; for had there been any !! r
g schoolmasters in the country, the individual who me. • '
at ployed such an expression would have found, to borrow .
is from the same phraseology, his fundamental feature too 1: a
seriously beaten not to he taught a more correct use of • ' 1
al words.—(Laughter.) With respect to the clause to
le which his Noble Friend objected, the Bill would cer 1
in tairr'y be better without it. But then cause those sneak-
-1
'4l ing and infamous Acts of Indemnity. He wished that
In Noble Lords when they went home to-night should look 4tt
h at the records of the horrible scenes e hick had taken
ly place in Ireland under the insurrection Act, and at those
''.
e- trials in which Judge., with tears in their eyes and elo- •
ly qeence in their mouths, were forced to refuse redress to i
. le
n- consequence of the Indemnity Itille which had passed.
le What promisee of inquiry and beneficial measures bed - .
at not been made at the opening of the Session. Only ' 1 '
le grant Ministers their Bills, and they were triply to do 4 . '.
a any thing ; but the Bills mice granted all other cooei• 11
. ,
re detections mid promises were thrown overboard. lie , 4
I
er conceived that the present measure was MA so well
se adapted to put down existing evils as others which were lis
I less objectionable, and that it would tend to perpetuate I," '
e• instead of removing them. Ou these grounds he should , li
a• give his vote against the Bill. I
T hl'
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to ' 1
of he counnitned on Monday, for which day the Lards are i
to suarnouell. I
1,1 Adjourned at a quarter before nine. i
nt y• a
ly HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, Jcev 19.
monimmommit
id Mr. PRENDERO %ST presented a petition from the
ty Merchants and other', of Galway, pr ryine fur a .
.
n• further remission of the Salt Tel.—Ordered to be
he printed. 44
as Mr. LUSHINOTON brooght in a Bill for the con-
.
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indance of the Bounties on the Greenland Fishery.—
Riad a first time.
The Report of the Irish Stamp Duties Bill was brought
op, and the amendment read and agreed to.
SALT TAX.
'On the Salt Duties Repeal Bill being read a third
tirte,
Mr. C. GRANT complained that the repeal of this
tax vrotild be most injurious to the persons in Scathed
enudnved in the manufacture of kelp. Something ought
to be done for this class of persons. as this Bill would ac-
tually reduce them to a state of misery.
l'he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER and Mr. CAL-
ornArr observed that the repeal of all taxes must have
an injurious effect upon. particular interests, but the
general benefit tnuet supersede individual hardship.—
his interest had grown upon a high war tax, the repeal
of which might have been anticipated.
The Bill was then passed, the only amendment being
that of leaving oat the clansefor the repeal of the duty
en Soda manufactured io this country, the duty therefore
remaining as it has hitherto stood on that article.
She Irish Salt Duties Repeal Bill was also read a third
titre and passed.
TOR LATE QUEEN'S SERVANTS.
Tae bootie went into a Committee on the Queen's Ser-
rants Pension Bill.
Mr. HUME proposed that the individuals provided (or
by thia Bill sboeld be placed on the Pension List, and
not paid out of the Consolidated Fund. He was sure if
there was any wish for economy, the Right Hoo. Gentle-
man woldi do that.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
rot secede to the suggestion of the lion. Member. The
leurtit of time that must occur before vacancies offered
CII the Pension List would be a sufficient objection.
Mr. BENNET thought the suggestion a most reason-
able one. It was only dOsired to place thoatiudividuals on
thr List as vacancies should occur.
The Resolutions were then agreed to, and the Report
ordered to be received on Monday.
SCOTCH ROTAL SIURGHS.

The Scotch Royal Burghs Accounts Bill was read a
third time and passed,
.The Scotch Burghs Magistrates Residence Bill was
read a third time.
:Lord BINNI'NG proposed a clause by way of rider,
that the majority of the Town Council shall reside with-
in three miles of the Council Chamber.
•Mr.silUME proposed an amendment to include the
Members; of the Town Council in the operation of the
Bill, thereby obliging the whole of the Members bf the
Council to reside within three miles of the town. This
would be theonly benefit the Burgesses would have, and
Le bad rather lose the Bill for this Session than accept
the half measure of the Noble Lord.
Mr. H. DRUMMONDsupported the amendment of his
Hon. Friend (Lord Binning)
The LORD ADVOCATE said that the clause proposed
by his Noble Friend was io compliance with the direc-
tions of the Committee.

Thee Dons; then divided : -
For Mr. Homes Amendment, 20—Agains!lt, 26—Ma-
jority against It 6.
Lord Mx:mei clime was then agreed to.
Air. DUMB proposed an amendment. that no Reve-
nne (officers should be eligible to be elected Members of
the Town Conncit io Liurghs which soot Mitubcrs of Par-
liament or Delegates.
Lord 1111VIUMG thought the exclusion •f Revenue
Officers to rote for Members of Parliament, was carrying
the line far enough without excluding those individuals
from situations of this kind.

The House then divided—
For the Amendment, 20—Against it, 29—Majority 9.
Lord RINNINO presented a petition from certain
JourneyeienTrlaters, complaloing that they bad been
discharged from their employment by their masters in
conseqnence of et idence given before a Committee of
that lionse and praying the interference of the hone
in their
Mr. Hume and Ur. Smilir supported the petition,
was read and ordered to be printed.
TUE CONSULATE OF TUE CRAMS.
- The slarquess of LONDONDERRY rose to call the
attention of the House to an order for an address to the
Crown whicb had been voted on a late occasion at the
end of the night, when all other business had been dis-
posed of. He alluded to an address for certain returns
relative to the offices of Consul and Vice-Consul of the
Brazils, which the boose had been induced to accede to
by the assurance of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen (Mr.
Home), that it was is conformance with an arrangement
with him. lie would state the nature of the addreas,and
the house would then judge if it was likely that be
should agree to it. Ile had Isidiself given notice of the
motion which the lion. Member at that hour of the
• night made; and he begged to observe, that it was ra-
ther strange that the Hon. Member should undertake
his liminess for him. It was at least unusual, and err-
tainly strange, that in doing it the Hon. Member should
actually implicate him in a criminal offence. The Ad-
dress was for returns of certain correspondence, and also
for the amount received by the Consul for the appoint-
ment of his Vice-Consul, with the amount of fees re-
ceived annually, and levied on the British merchants
trading there. This was distinctly allegiug that Mr.
Chamberlain had sold the office of Vice-Cousnl, which
was a criminal offence, cognizable as such by the law.
lie really thought it was too much ut two o'clock in the
morning to induce the house to vote such ao address, in-
forming his Majesty of a criminal offence, the doco.
meets of which were deposited in the office of one of his
chief Secretaries. The lion. Member, lie believed alao
talked of the fees in question being extorted. Note, in
a letter be had received from Mr. Chamberlain, dated
6th December, 1817, he stated that no consular fees were
levied at all, by him or his Vice-Consul—that nothing
but notarial fees were taken for noting documents,whicir
'night he done by any notary if the merchant chose, in
place of the Vice-Consul. Ile also stated that so far
from Lig deriving emolument from his Vice-Conaul, that
in ISIS be lost 753/. and the following year, 5761. and
that his Vice-Consul was then on the point of leaving
him because he received only 700 t. a year. Now it was
not likely that a man would give a large sum for an of-
fize which it would not be worth his while to keep. lie
must say, that on as address of so singular a character
be knew not what advice to give the Crown, and he put
it to the house and the Honourable Member whether it
was a proper way of doing public business, to get up at
the close of an evening to move such an address
(Hear, bear.)
Mr. III:ME was surprised to hear the complaint of
the Able Lord, when he remembered that the Noble
Lord had-told him, a few days before he moved, that he
might have all the information he wished for by moving.
With regard to the letter the Noble Lord had read, he
begged to say that the allegations he had made were not
his own, but those of 74 out of 7S residelit merchants;
and it was 41,0 to he remembered, that their petiiiou was
later than the letter he bad 'looted, and that the writer
could not know better, than the merchants themirlses.
Bat be assured the Noble Magness, that he had oo dis-
position to take any unfair advantage, and had he
thought it was not his wish, be would not have moved
on that occasion. For the future he would coosuit
more particularly when he had similar motions to make,
and he hoped be would not suppose lie had wished to do
any thing contrary to the Noble Lord's wishes.
The Marquess of LONHONDF.RItY explained. that
It bad been his intention to move for papers on this sub-
ject of a more comprehensive nature than the motion of
the Hon. Member went to. All that he complained of
was that part of the Address, which insinuated his

THE

EIIIIIWEIVIs tier, tetb
agreed in a desire of 'Heirless aH information -on the
subject, he suggested that tioo.order for the Address
should he withdraws, cud he windlitells nivrthatthe
elect of the Honourable Member should IF• complied
with.
Mr. MUlifif then withdrew the order for the Ad-
dress.

STEAM PACIEirli.
Lord BINNING pretested a Petitioa team -certain
lan-keepers, Cosehmasters, sad others enameted with
the Dover high road to London, eolopialaing of a great
diminution of business from the establisinneat of steam-
boats betweee London and Calais. They stated that up
wards of 1200 horses engaged on that road mutt in eon-
setmesee of this be sold,- and sees* imidriod families
thrown out of employment, more or term. The reveals.
they stated would sutler by this al teradum la the mode
of conveyance. They prayed that a tan Wlebt be put on
Istvan' boats. •• Al

Mr. BERNAL said be bag bees voqeseneley his con• i
stitoents of Rochester to support the prayer of this Peti-
tion.
After a few words from Mr. CALCRAPT and NIL W.
Surto,
Mr. 11. GURNEY took that opperteeity of faggot'.
log to the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Depart-
ment the propriety of appointing some sae to take
the panports of the adieus at the Cestons-house stairs, la-
stead of obliging the weasels to stop at Gravesend.
•Mr. Secretary PREL assured the lies. Gentleman
I that it had always been his 'studios to remedy this-evil
whenever he should Sad that the pas age by steam was
lised. lie had now found that it was sot and he boil
that morning appointed a person to au office wialob
would obviate the necessity of the vessels stopping at
0 ravened.
The Petition was ordered to be iodated. •

TUX DIANA 'TURKISH THIRSTS.
Sir B. MARTIN, in allusion to what had fallen
from the Honourable and Gallant Member for Wor-
cester (Colonel Davies) the ether night on the subject
of the Turkish frigate in the Thames, taking in mi-
litary stores and British seamen, rose to date that
his statemeot was quite erroneous. He then read a
letter from Mr. Hamilton, in the office of the Marquess
of Londonderry to the Admiralty, to permit the orna-
mental part of the vessel to be furnished, but that no-
this g connected with the magazine or arming of her
should be done. If any more had been done, it was the
fault of the Dock Master. He had written to inquire on
the subject, and found that the only Eagl:.di sailor en•
tered to sail with her was the sailing master. He found
that she was capable of carrying 56 guns, but that not
one was minuted. As a merchant ship she came to
this country, and as such, as far as the Government was
concerned, she would go out of it. If the Captain took
on board any military stores, he did so at his own peril.
--(Hear, bear !)—The report, therefore, of the Hon. and
Gallant 'Member was quite wren.
CoL DAVIES heard, with great Pleasure, the explana-
tion of the /iononrable Baronet. No blame, he cancels,
ed;attached to bins for haviag dated what had been
communicated to him on a gabled calling for such seri-
ous attention.
Mr. ROBINSON said, that when it was discovered
that the war was broken out, there were forty Greek
sailors belonging to the crew sent back at the charge of
the Peas of Egypt to Greece.
Sir B. MARLIN said, that the Captain had been re-
fused the means of conveying powder abroad.
Mr. W. SMITH presented a Petition from certain in-
habitants of Hornsey and Islington, against ,the High-
gate Chapel Bill.
Referred to the Committee.
Mr. GOULBURN prodded a Petition from four of
the Comoddlosters, appointed to inquire into the Fog
of Courts of Jsiticain Ireland. They complained 71
some expressions in a letter to the Lord Chief Barons
and expressed their readiness to meet inquiry and scru-
tiny.
Mr. HUME asked how long the labours of this Com-
mission were expected to last.
Mr. tiOULBURN said, that the Commissioners were
appointed to perform a certain duty in which they had al-
ready proceeded with great advantage to the public.—
How long they would be occupied in concluding it ho
bad no means of knowing.
Mr. HOME said, that his reason for asking was, that
he had received iolormation of a very young man, Mr.
Plunkett, having been appointed one of these Commis-
sioners. if these duties were so important, and ,likely
to occupy a considerable time, be thought the appoint-
ments ought to be limited to men who bad experience
and knowledge of legal matters, and of the particular
Courts to which the inquiry was directed.
Mr. GOULBURN said, that it was quite true that
Mr. Plunkett had been appointed a Commissioner, and
it was also true that he was a young man: yet be was
not so young as to be disqualified by his youth; and
those most conversant with legal subjects, and with the
matters likely to come under the attention of the Com-
mission, knew that Mr. Plunkett was well qualified for
the appointment