The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-07-11 00:00:00

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KI'VrESMAN.

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n be the state of all the districts it present dis.
` ble toSite short
then. In considering this evil, it appeared to him , were to en prisoner,
r should be deernad bst
outset!. A machine at some one place, perhaps, had
and then they began at another, and
~.tier to look at the aspect which it now put on, ' tried for a misdemeanour. The MagiStradel• SOW
than to consider minutely its origin and causes.— also have a power to arrest
bled and to hold enisled by. self-interested individuals, the contagion
At the same time it was satisfactory to consider, found thus tumultuously
all such persons al ilk, '.been'broken, . . . . .
that much of the evil arose from causes merely tem 'in vtirious parts of the kingdom. Most or those,
sions • and be would propose,, that they
. them to bail, so as to bring them to ;dal at the next soon eprend, and great atrocities had been committed'
porary—the distressed state of the manufacturers, quarter Ses ,
wine& who had been the principal notierk, hed, however,
eg;ravated by the price of prosisions : and it shouitotnewbeall atich cases be urougnt to trial .
;been brought to justice, for they had been convicted
be observed, that there was necessarily a degree of
they now were by Which:nieeiis they a „
..
Meiners's! not allowed the privilege of traversing the
nd exeeuted. The Noble Lord had complimented
combination among manufacturers, which melte le iltdichnent as , ~ „
pleasure 'Than
fhe Magistracy all over the kingdom ;.. nothing would
more easy for them, than for an equal nunitier v ntt' glit defer their trial for two Sessions. ResPecting
eeepeeeene of the -have sgiten Mi.. Whitbittid iiiiiifer
agriculturists, to communicate and cougregate; yet,s stliee4tieticasaises'ioaeOso onlsorging,t
to have subscribed to that opinion ; but he must
whatever might be the cause of the mil, it bad annum. Magistrates; as tin), Suffice. assert, without meaning to make any individual
Nlegietracr were not
a w and the circu. mstances of the
ted a shape so formidable, having risen from levying country now stood,
, allusions, that in some particular districts, the Mn. part of a
war on a few master workmen, to ream in search of ently numerous Co do the duty in every.
I ' t tes had t done their duty. In the Commit.
by removing from the ; ins ra no
nee eneades,—it was so ii-atigntabt nits tiatiare, so COUntiy ; and an if e nil er ,
county into another that I tee, 'continued the Honourable Gentleman, there was
marked in its combinationseso bound by itaabioni. verge or confine or one
that meannot the smallest evidence brought to shew that the
'
itaelo oath, that the House would feel it would be adjoined it, was enabled to escape from
.s to elude I Watch and Ward Act had ever been carried into exe.
the Ma g is-
lulling the country into a false security, tq tell it, tiate who pursued him, and by t
that the existing laws could eradicate the mischief.. the law. He would, therefore, propose that there cation; but there was sUlficient evidence to shew
Though in the Committee m I
all the circu
statices and should be a concurrent jurisdiction between Magis- Tat the inhabitants could not be brought to execute
pirtioulaes had not been detailed, yet enough ap. . trates of adjoining counties;
I •
so that a Magistrate in , to.; that the ill-affected impressed the Oell-affected
peared;to show the enormous nature of the evil. An one county having pursued nu offender into another 1 with such a terror, that nobody would venture to
;
lien. Member (Mr. Whitbread) had said, that the county, the limits of the county in which he corn- expose themselves. Why, he would ask, had no at-
present
present laws were eucient for the en tempt been made to execute the existing laws?—
igeney, and had mitted the offence should not serve him as a plea for ! .
ed that any such attempt had ever been made.
complained- that he was not /glowed to go into pa. not .. helms brought to justice in the county where he . , He denied
sole evidence in the Committee. lie (Lard C.) had should bee taken, though he had not in that county 1 He, for one, therefore, could not give his consent
•certeinly thought, and se expressed himself, that actually offended against the law. If „these disturb- :to the introduction of those new provisions, when
:
parole evidence would not be necessary for them to ' ances should unhappily continue, such measures as the existing laws bad not been executed. The Noble
take that full, large view of the subject which would , these would,'lti his opinion, be absolutely necessary.e •
I ord had alluded to extensive seizures of arms accu-
be
required in Parliamentary transactions. It was ilt might, however, be hoped, that from the spring , mulated in one place—but he defiled that there was
any evidence of this. Could the Noble Lord point
. . evident that an evil existed, and it was necessary to , Which had lately been given to our manufactures, '
provide a remedy. -He apprehended, that Parliament ' on w and from the prospect of an abundant harvest, these ' t re
ile 50 stand of arms had ever been seized at
*might interfere for such a purpose, without enquiry', , , disturbances might cease. It was not his ssish to re- .incise time. It was true that, at Stockport, there
on the mere notoriety of the thing. In this case, the .. sort to any measures farther than might be absolutely ; Were 200 stand of arms taken ; but how many were ,
matter was sufficiently notorious, and the notoriety , necessary for the peace and security of the cointtry. taken by the troops from the rioters at any one time,
was backed by the Reporeof the Secret Committee. If the liarliament would give those enlarged powers was not known. It. had been said by one person J
His Lordship then repeated, that Government had re- ,to the Magistrates, he 'thought much good- would that there was a depot of arms in a wood ; but 1
ceived advice from the Lieutenants of the Counties, accrue from it. These deluded and unfortunate men 'of this the evidence was not satisfactory.—lf so,
and especially of the West Riding of Yorkshire, that : had, on all occasions, shown great respect to the however, that was the very place where he should
the present laws were not able to repress the evil : . judgment of Parliament, and he hoped they would ;- wish the arms to remain, as it chewed so evidently
they received also the •same information from a vacs- i 110 w bow fo that opinion as they had before done. It ; the want of skill and combination of those who could
ety of Magistrates in the different districts, with de- ! war the unanimous opinion of his Majesty's Mim ia. i ever think of entrusting arras to such a place.—
positions on oath, since confirmed by trials and i tees, that measures of the nature he had described, Another evidence had imputed all the mischief to ja-
convictions ; and also from secret intelligence, re- were absolutely necessary ; and having thus explain- cobinical emissaries, who had been at work every
ceived from secret individuals Connected with .ed their nature, and the extent to which they were : where throughout the country ; but the evidence of
different combinations, whose accounts were con- I meant to go, he would not detain the House longer j this person was of such a violent and contredictery
firmed (by the subsequent actions of those corn- !at present, but would read the Motion with which j nature, as to shew that no reliance whatever was to
binations. And, indeed, though there was a dif. he intended to conclude. His Lordship then moved, tbe placed in it. Another act of outrage Which had
fereece of opinion iii the Committee on some par- " That leave be given to bring in • Bill fur time preservation i been laid great stress on, was the burning of West
ticular points, yet, in the material features of the of the public peace, and to enlarge the powers of the Magi.- . Houghton Mill, which was said to have beetethe work
een the dissurhed countiet.' lof a most alarming combinatio'n. But a number of
case, none remarked an essential difference. Such 'rah
being the case, Government would still not be jus- Mr. WHITBREAD said, that the excuse of the ; persons who were concerned in that affair were tried
tified in calling for extraordinary powers, unless Noble Lord and his Colleagues, for not soone- re. !at Lancaster, and paid the forfeit of their tires ;
they could skew, that the existing powers had been questing the advice and assistauceof Parliament, was, : and what More more could be wanted than that ? A
fairly exerted without success; and that on extraor- that they waited until they should obtain some in- great deal had bean said of the meeting on the Moor,
dinary occasions extraordinary powers were neces- formation from the North, which should enable themi on the night of the 19th of April, immediately pre-
sary. The conduct of the Magistrates in the dis- ito make up their minds upon at least one subject ; , vious to time burning of the mill ; but of the forty
turned districts had been highly meritorious ; but it not indeed upon the question of what measure should i persons who were present on the Moor, it appeared
might happen from different circumstances, that the ;he recommended by the Cabinet, but whether they 1 from the evidence of the Colonel and Adjutant of
Magistrates might not be so efficient in some places : should take upon themselves to recommend any at I the Bolton Local Militia, that ten were beret Mili-
as others: there were, however, no cases of failnre ' all. This was not a matter of much' importance asltiamen, disguised with blackened faces, who de-
of duty on which any accusation could be founded.. . respected the present debate ; but it skewed what i scribed themselves as having passed two by two, be-
Assuming, therefore, that they had done all that ; confidence the House and the country were to place fore the General of them, whose name was Hurlt,'
could be done, it was evident they had not been able !in men of such vascillaling minds, and of such hide- and who, along with the ten Militiamen, was the only
to cope with the evil. Government had been mire- ! cisiou of character, in times like those in which we i persons in disguise there. lie could not but testify
milting in its exertions. Very early a large military j lived. The Noble Lord had alluded to differences his dislike of this custom of espoinage. It appeared
force was sent to the disturbed counties ; beside' of opinion is the Committee. The Noble Lord that one of these Militiamen endeavoured to ittstigate .
this, that moat constitutional bodb the Local Militia, I wished merely to look at the surface of the evil : he i another person to burn the work-house, who imme- ,
had been called into service, and in every instance I (Mr- Whitbread) was anxious to ascertain its cause, . diately said, if we burn the work-house, we shall I
had performed their duty with promptitude, zeal, `as the only means of applying an effectual remedy.— ! burn a number of poor people who 'are in it. " 0
and fidelity. Government. also, had givers extraordi. 1 That the short delay that would thus have been oc_ , theeleyil care for that;" he replied, " let us only
nary encouragement to Gentlemen to form volun. I casioned would have produced no injury, he had the do all the mischief we possibly can." It appeared,
tar moteciations, assuring them, that peace could 1 satisfaction of knowing from the ciscutnstance, that therefore, that these misguided people had been fee.
only be effectually restored by the interference of I from the 23d of June to the Bth of July, Ministers ! quently induced by such means to go greater lengths
thud.) who possessed property and interest within I had received no further intelligence from those . than they would otherwise have• thought of. He
the county : and, lastly, a Watch and Ward Bill . quarters, whose duty it would haie been to have ' would object strongly to the proposed measure of
Lad been enacted, for the better maintenance of trate. : transmitted it, if the evil had been aggravated. The i searching for arms. The Noble Lord had had some
quilli y in chose districts. The Noble Lord then i consevence of not being allowed to enter upon the experience in that way in Ireland, and we ought not
said, be should in this place wish to mil the attention I verbal evidence, was the je few Report, with which . to throw away all our experience with respect to
, r the house, to such precautionary measures as I the House of Commons had been affronted, and the : Ireland. Though the Noble Lord himself appeared to
niie:t tend to counteract the evil which, to his mind,' House was left in comparative darkness, instead of 'be excessively soft and mild on this occasion, it was
neeeseel to have arrived to so alarming an height, I being prOvided with such facts of the testimony, at impossible to forget that there were many experienc-
Tan lew to be proposed, would be such as would : least, as could, without danger to the witnesses, be ,' etl.persons in the country at present under the coin-
aeely immediately to these particular districts, and i published. The Noble Lord had made a long state- I mend of Government. There were Lord Camden and
lie would wish to confine its operation to such a limjt-iment of whet he called facts, which was wholly un_ i the Noble Lord himself, whose experience was
ed term as might, in the wisdom of the House, be ; warranted in many parts by the Report upon the 'by no means contemptible. Was it not so ? Could
deemed batty necessary' for its purposes. The mea- : table. Mr. Whitbread's wish had been to try the all this be so soon forgotten ? Why were arms -to be
sure would include three points : the first was, more ' truth of the anonympus information communicated, : searched for ? This was the very way to produce dis-
ejectual proceedings with regard to the army,--the . but although he divided the Committee, and had nine , satisfaction in a country; as it would not only enable
second, to provide more secure!y against tumultuous : votes out of nineteen iu his favour, they were obliged ' Government to search far arms, but to disarm the
meetings,--and the third, to give a more extensive to content themselves with that intelligence which wholecountry. Thepeople whose arms were demanded
power to the Magistrates. The proceedings of the Government thought fit to supply. lie called upon . might very well say, we will not give up oar arms,
rioters had arrived to a very alarming pitch, particu- • the Noble Lord to point out to him any part of the ' for if we did, the-rioters would mark us out as hee-
led) i i the article of seizing arms. Some arias had Report upon the table, or of the documents on which . ing done so, and we should be unable to defend our.
been taken so eerly as the month of March, but at' it was founded, which authorised the assertion he selves. There were many instances of individuals
that time the instances were few ; they had lately had made, that there existed an army arrayed in who had repelled the rioters and defended themselves
been more numerous, and as tee mischief seemed to the country, amid that it was necessary to put a stop .in a most gallant manner. The defence of Mr.
be o;m the increase, it became the more necessary to 'to the increase of that army. Mr. Whitbread psi.; Cartwright, at Lawton Mill, was of that nature,
tonal against it. The Magistrates had declared . tively denied that there was a regiment or company, ! and there were other instances. It was too much for
themselves incapable of recover hug arms, taken in the or even half a company, organized. The Noble Lord . persons who had arms, but would not use them, to
merles alluded to, with the powers with which they i had naturally shown a great reluctance to enter into call on the House to take them from these who were !
are at present invested by the law ; and it would,S the origin of these unfortunate events, but he would I willing to use them. This was .one of the most' oh- I
therefore, he necessary to extend those powere. 'fife' allow him (Mr. Whitbread) just to remind him of jeerlonibte measures that Could be resorted to. In
first regulation he should propose on this head, la few of their sources : the great cause was thediini. ; Ireland it certainly had not produced all the advan-
would
therefore be, to invest the 'Magistrates with linden of the resources of the country by protract. tageous effects which had been expected from it; and
power to seize not only arms that were stolen, but .ed warfare. The nation dependent for its prosperity ! its execution there was attended with horrors from !
secreted arms also. Many of those inhabitants in :on the success of its manufactures--the system of ; which the mind recoils. Did the Noble Lord mean
these tteaultitouts districts who were actually well : policy pursued during the last twenty years, had re- ' to say that houses might be entered by night as well
disposed, had refused to give up their arms, unless ! duce(' the manufacturing claeses to a state of dis- ,as by day ? When people were seen to be so heated]
they were forcibly taken from them by the Magi- ! tress which. had given rise to the disturbances so , with terrors
and
apprehensions, as in the present
strates, for fear they should he PX;;OS.CCI to the resent-; much lamented in Nottingham, Yorkshire, Lan- i case, and calling out for short processes; and when in I
meat of the rioters; he would, therefore, propose to i cashire, and Cheshire. The Noble Loud had talked I one place it Was said the danger was not alarming, :
give a power to the Magistrates to take arms where- likewise of leaders, but where was there one to ! and in another
they were calling out for all the
ever they might be found, merely for the purpose of be found ? Only in the terrified imaginations I most rigourous measures of a despotic Government
9
,
keeping them in safe custody, to be. re-delivered to' of Ministers. No distinct combinations were it , wasimpossible to say what consequences such a
their owners when an alteration in the circumstances ' proved: no one, two, or three men were found ! power might not produce. On these grounds he
of the country should warrant such a restoration of j connected to manage the proceedings of the rioters:: certaialr should trot vote for the Bills of the Noble
their properte. This was the outline of the merle I they were on the contrary, all dis-united, and dill. :Lord. Had he asked
merely for a concurrent juris.
sure, so far as related to arms. • With regard to i joined, without even any apparent and settled per- I diction to the Magistrates of different counties, he
the next point,—the tumultuous meetings, he sap. j pose. That the distress existed was certain, and the i should have at
once
voted for it.. He denied that
hosed the House would see the danger, as well 1 cause of it was equally obvious, as well as that the ' there • ,was any evidence of any funds whatever, being
ft v the impolicy of suffering a numerous army to origin of the disturbances was that distress. But was lat the " command of those people. It appeared on
be assembled in the country, that watt not there the shadow of evidence to shew that.there was
raised under and by the •controul of elm King. In any such dreadful and terrific combinationsl as the money, and had the utmost difficulty in contributing
many places in Nottitikhamshire, Lancashire, and the , Noble Lord, had conjured up ?. It was-true that de- their miserable two-pelmet, and in some places ten-
West Riding of Yorkshire, where these ttimultneus : signing men had taken advantage of this dieorgani '
sm- penmen. For want of money the whole system of
proceedings prevailed, meetings were held on a hill ! tion to promote their private and unworthy view Manchester fell to the ground. One man, who
during the time of Divine Servica. As soon as such , but not to prorinee general dissatisfaction against the. ro
. ;turned inf nab or r, said he had been promised 30s. and
an assemblage was known, the MaWstrateL. might ; constitute,' authorities, or to overturn the.Goeern. had received riot
more than 14s. 10d. Another per-
proceed to meet them, Might read the Riot Actr—and Mont. It was sidle lieu' to imagine that it could be' son who-applied for 20s. was long refused it,. till he
then their power was at an end; fertile tumultuous !to. Where a.t the disturbances begin? JO Not. :received the strongest assurances of being reimbuts-
aesemblage might move off, and there would be ant tingham. What was the orign? Disputes betireen ed, and ,at last. gave 19s. keeping one shilling for
end of the business for that time. lie thought, there- 1 the workmen and their matters. What was the state himself. These were all the funds which,they had'
fore, the Magistmteashould have thepower to Ms- i, of Nottingham now ? Profoundly quiet. Stith, he to foster' distonteitt. The revocation of the Orders
)erne theta; mad in doing so, that such persona as trusted, ifthe Itl.were sigorossly'ezecujpls wou44 in Council gave* the greatest reason to sapimoset that

the evil would subside itself. There was another
reason to which the slisturba laces might be attributed,
namely, the high price of provisions. When there
was a great population, not absolutely starving, but
greatly straitened for food, it was impossible to ex!), ost
they would he in the same contented state as in b, tipr
times. All the persons who had been called to ;;•,:,
evidence concur in stating, that their hopes of the
restoration of order depended on a ccod harvest._.
There was but one remedy for all these evils, which
must unavoidably be borne, so long as peace could
not be obtained. But peace ought by all metros to
be obtained if RassibLe • for the country was going
progressively info a stifirirthings from which every
thing was to be feared. The Right Honourable (;e1),
tleman over against him must be aware of the I rwll
of what he was statitig, as he had predicted, if peiluEr
was not Made in time, we sbould soon becomp.dled
to make it whether we would or not. Peace w ref
the only remedy for our internal grievances, and the
only remedy for our external grievances also. And,
in his opinion, a more favourable occasion for a
neral peace never existed than we had at this time:
It had been said that the disturbances were ocrasiem,
ed by the instigation of our enemy, and that a cor-
resprnd lice had been carried on betweeu the riot-
ers and the prisoners of war. The Nobb. Lord
knew very well there was no ground for this Report.
The number of prisoners in this country at present
was certainly a very great evil; and even if pare
could not be obtained, that evil mi;ht perhaps bt,
remedied by an exchange of prisoners. But on this
subject he would not take up the time of the Rouse.
Ile would conclude with stating, that he was exceed..
ingly glad he had watched the evidence given in the
Committee. The Repo,rt of the Noble Lord, though
not expressed in the same language as a publication
which he had seen, which certainly drew the most
extravagant and unwarranted conclusions from the
evidence, lad a most unquestionable tendency to ex-
cite the same unwarranted alarms.

WILBEILFORCE, alluding to the obserra:
tions of the Holt. Ge.tt. who precedel him, on the
subiect of Peace, thou,Ott that bpsulfering evils like
the present to exist, without any adequate restrtiot
we should place the country in such a situation, that
we should be unnable to treat for peace on a proper
and honourable footing, and to obtain such terms as
would be consistent either with our security or our
honour. It was impossible for him, connected as he
was with that part of the country which was the scene
of disturbance, to contemplate the necessity for the
provisions now propos-A to be introduced, without
feelings of a most paiuful nature. • In his opinion,
his Majesty's Ministers had set about this business in
a right spirit, and continued to be actuated by it.—
They appeared td him not to wish to outrun the ab-
solute neeessite of the case. They certainly did not
at present go beyond the necessity of the case. In
spite of all the unpopularity which might attach to
such a declaration, he would go even toe length of
saying, that if Government had asked for larger
powers, not-for the purpose of carrying them at once
into execution, but for the sake of, as it were, feel-
ing their way cautiously, according to the actual si-
tuation of the country, he, for one, would have irld
no hesitation in consenting to bestow Such po Off
on them. His lion. Friend (Mr. Whitbread)
observed, that the powers already conic, red on the,
Magistrates had not been executed -It ti as foe
Members sitting at their ease in that House, to talk
of the way iu which laws might be carried into exe-
cution—

He jests at scars who never felt a wouni.
In his opinion it ought not to be rashly concluded
that the Magistrates were deficient In spirit, because
they found the laws inadequate to the preservation of
tranquillity. The Magistrates said they could obtain
no information on oath against any individuala, and
therefore could not execute the laws as they stood.
The terrible measures which were resorted to, of as-
sassinating and burning of houses, indisposed every
person to come forward to give evidence. His Hon.
I Friend had refer Ted to the Irish Rebellion, and said
! that it made him view the present measures with the
greater alarm. He had heard it stated by persons,
I on who:1-e veracity he could put every reliance, who
were well acquainted with the Irish Rebellion,
that they never were so astonished as when they
observed so many particulars, exactly the same in
1 the case before our eyes, and that of Ireland. [Hear,
hear!) It was certain that the strongest mea-
sures were recommended, not by persons on the spot,
who might be supposed to be undor the influence of
due alarm, but by a person who was in a more im-
/
Martial situation, and who could not be possibly un-
der any personal apprehension. The measures did
not originate in the fear of these wcevanish Magis-
trates, as they had been represented ; they were ask-
ed for by persons of the coolest heads, and the
!•bravestitrarts; but his Majesty's Ministers were un-
Iwilling to resort to them till they were idispensible.
With regard to the source of the disorders, it was a
'subject of great delicacy, but he could not avoid
.
stating thus far. He could not agree with his lion.
Friend, the Member for Bedford, that they pr
seeded from an interruption to commerce, or w
scarcity of provi6ions. He must state that the dis-
ease was, in his opinion, of a political nature.--
[Hear, hear!] He would not quarrel with Ms lion.
Friend for the contrary opinion .which he entertain•
ed; and bis lion. Friend would allow, that he eon-
' curred with him in wishing for
.More thoroughly in-
! aestigating into all the particulars of this subject.—
Alas ! alas! He wished he could herecl, the disor-
ders were owing to any such accidental and tempo-
rary causes.-L[llear, hear !]—lt was undoubtedly
true, that the state of the country, from the high•
price of provisions and-the want of empleyment, was.
such as to incrrise the disFontents. Under such ch-
curnstances popular discontents would always thrive;
they always grew up and llouriAd in a rank soil;
but this disease arose from causes of a mare deep and
general nature. It arose from the pains take t, in
certain mischievous publications, to alienate the
affectious of the people from the laws and govern-
ment of the country, and to stir them up to measures
mischievous to the community and miserable to tt em-
selves.—[!fear, hear !)—But he would not enlarge
on this subject : it was too gloomy to dwell on.
Temporary discontents had beep known formerly to
take place from a disagreement about wages or so;
but they ought not to be deceived. Was it not known
that letters were sent to individuals threatening asses.
Inflation and burning of houses, and that these

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THE STATESMAN;

Welts u.-re but ,to often carried into execution ?
Was he to betelil that all this ayes trifling ? No! no!
I. nod 11.` a peat and serious cause indeed, which
s 'how itself in such alarming effects—when
zadereett, end orderly persons could be so far
as under the forms and ceremonies of, mil-
e°, to twin themselves to contemplate the commis-
ion of them, ,t horrible and atrocious crimes without
T, norm., —[ /fear, hear—lt showed a diseased state
niisd. weich viewed every thing through a false
„whim, and which ssemed to. subvert all the ordina.
moral feelings of our nature. No! they were
certainly not going too !kiln entrusting the Govern-
pith such pugs. As to the searching for
veins, he Slid not expSt much effect from it. The
rated good be anticipated, was from the power
given the Magistrates of suddenly seizing persons
assembled together, and subjecting them to 4 mild
pule,lnent Is high might prevent the necessity of
tser having resoarse to a more severe one. There
was nething, in his opinion, in the measures, which
redid else the smallest reason to conclude, that they
were actuated in any wise at present by passion.
Mr. %V 111TBBRAD explained.
sir FRANCIS BURDETT always contem-
plated with jealousy every innovation on the old laws
of the country, which, in the long run, would al-
ways be found the most beneficial. The Honour.
able sisacver who had sat down (Mr. IVilbeforce)
seemed poisonal to go any lengths that Ministers
Thiele delimit, even the lengths that had been gone
in behold, if necessity should require it—that is, be
wry rssparsd tu en the length of inflicting torture
for the purpose of producing confession—for that
was the system which was adopted in Ireland—a.
system of torture applied to produce confession by ,
tile Government of the country. lie saw from the
gestures of the Ilogiourable Gentleman that he did
slot assent to the proposition as he now stated it ; '
but he appealed to those Gentlemen who new a
heard him, if what he had raid was not to that ef- I
feet.—{No, no The Honourable Member had I
said, he was prepared to go even farther lengths,l
if circumstances should require it : and he proceed.;
et! to make some observations on that subject, which
be coulee/el could receive ue other construction.—
Ile hoped the Noble Lord was net entering on that
bloods career which was run by the Government of
lieheid. The Noble Lord himself had always din.
r!oilecil having any part in that Government ; and it
Gentleman n as at present in prison for a libel, In haw.
irs ,aid that the Noble Lord belonged to that Go.
-.segment. Ile ss ished to do justice to the Noble
bed, tint bbing %Ming to fix an imputation rashly
or. any man. If he understood the measure pro-',
Ned was to convert what were now capital of-
fences into misdemeanours, he should support the
Pill, hut he could not consider it in this light :
tip meaning of this was, that by a summary
mode of proceeding, half a dozen of harmless
people, who might be met together for the most
scent purposes, might be liable to be seized
▪ ssi.esed to all the inconveniences of a trial
for misilemesnour, for what at present was no crime
at all. Ane.: sr Bill •was to be brought in for
the purpose of 'slowing the searching for arms.—
Every man by law had a right to arms for his own
sod his family's defence. lie could not consent
to give a Magi,etratt power to search for and take
alley from a man that on which the safety of his
fstsily might dspend. If he were to believe the
ll nom-lb e Nlember fo; Yorkshire, the discontents
w•rr Sprstorigg, and the laws were quite unequal
to suppress them. But was not this contrary to all
the information which had been received, that the
acts had not been so often repented as formerly ?-
Ile was informed by a Gentleman of great credibility
who came from the neighbourhood of Ilcarghtiatt
Mills, that the account of that case bad been very.
a exaggerated. This Gentleman he had recent-
's:4ll to go before the Committee; but they re-
lased to receive any evidence but what coincided with
their nun s item Of the forty persons who met on
the n.nor, ten of whom were spies, twelve were ef-
ts ward: convicted, a prett :considerable proportion.
Then! were many of Cie convictions at Lancaster and
Chester of which he could not approve. At Isancas-
ter, *omen, and boys of 16, were banged for steal.
potatoes, a punishment by no means propor-
tioned to the offence, and which could only excite di,-
gust, and 1w no means serve for an example. Had
11.0,e rases been laid before the Prince Regent, he be-
!isssd his humanity would hare made them the oh.
jests of Royal mercy ; and he was the mote inclined
to believe this, as only two of those who were con-
vistel at Chester were executed. The Ilonocrable
‘
stember for Yorkshire had disputed the conclusion
t11.1%411 by the ifon. Member for Bedford, from the
rs;glisiee before the Committee, that the discontents
arose Gem distress; and yet, when they recollected
the evidence given before the Committee ou the Ore
dery in Council stated the utmost degree of human
misery t 4 prevail among the poor manfacturers,
there was no need to look to other causes to account
for the disturbances. Against what were all their
rtfsrts directed ? Against machinery, which those
I.:meant people supposed to be the cause of their
di,lresses. The Hon. Member for Yorkshire had at.
trihuted the Nil to certain seditious publications.--.
Then lie , .
;lust stop the press altogether.—r Hear !],--
!t wosid not be sufficient to convert a misdemeanour
into ; hut it would be necessary to stop the
press and put an end to all discussion. Indeed, ex.
ceps the grievances of the cnuutry were removed it
7. ould he necessary to put down all discussion. It
'as absolutely necessary to pot the press down, or
to stop ashore they were. 'rke Hon. Baronet pro-
re‘erled to ridicule the idea of the appointment of a
Scret Committee, to enquire into this business.—
_v hat secret came before them which'did not appear
in all the tiewspapess ? There was another subject to
sit lie would allude, one of great importance,
thosgh trot one in which many, perhaps, would con-
cur with him. If attended to, indeed, it would go
to remove many of the causes of our present discos.-
tenli—lie meant reform among themselves. Ile
Would not, however, dwell upon it now, ea he in-
tend, d before the present session closed to bring it
at lawo before the House. With regard to the mea-
sures proposed to meet the occasion, he should ab-
stain from saying any more till the Bill was brought
igt and the scope of it more generally understood.—
lle AVHS of opinion, that the laws, as they at present
mood, were sufficient, if they were vigorously en-
forced, which he cotild not think they had. -

because not promptenough, he must say, that all ideal
of taking them by surprise, or by any- general and
immediate exertion, was out of the question. :;ucli a
mode of proceeding would be most offensive, and most
irritating. In Ireland, however, the effect of a si-
miliar measure had been that Government obtained
the possession of 100,000 arms; not by surprise, but
by its gradual operation. With respect to the plans
that were pursued in Ireland, he wished to say a few
words, and especially upon the detestable imputation
that torture was sanctioned or authoristal by Govern-
ment. lle could assure the House, that as far as he
knew, there was no instance of torture being inflicted
with the authority or knowledge of Government. It.
was true, that during those dreadful times, in the
absence of all law, that martial law was proclaimed,
a measure which had received the sanction of the
United Parliament after the Union. By that law
the military had powei to inflict the same punish.
meat upon the rebels as was indicted upon soldiers
for offences ; and the Hon. Baronet would no doubt
call that torture : but he denied that evisti that pu-
nishment was over inflicted for the purpose of ex-
torting evidence* with the knowledge or permission
of Government. He did not say it was not done;
but he affirmed most solemnly it was never done
with the sanction of Governmeut. He would now
allude to a libel against himself, which had been
published by a person now in confinement for
it. He was there charged with the legal mur-
der of a person named Orr, in the year 1797;
but it did so happen, that he was not in office till.
seven months-after that transaction took place, and
which* he thought
.was a pretty good alibi. But
though not in office, he begged to be understood that
he was perfectly prepared to defend every measure of
Lord Camden's Government. It skewed, however,.
the facility with which such charges were brought
forward. The person be alluded to, went to Ire-
land and got affidavits, two of which were suffered:
to be read by the Court. Ono of them charged him
with an arbitrary act in transporting a man for seven
years—but he. was transported under the sentence
of a Court-Marshal. Another affidavit stated, that
he (Lord Castlereagh) had been present at the in-
fliction of corporal riuni•hmznt on a rebel • in point
of fact, however, he had never witnessed such a 1
scene in his life, not even by accident. With per.l
sons, however, who had never been in Ireland, he j•
did not hope to make his peace, their hostility, in-
deed, was the best. proof that he had done his duty ;
I their testimony of applause he could hope to receive,'
only if he did not deserve- it. Any oue who knew
lhim, however, knew that it Wasforeign to the feel-1
ings of his heart to lend his coansel or aid to any,
measures' that might seem harsh and cruel, except
when he was conscientiously convinced that such
measures were. necessary for 'the -safety and tramp&
67 of the country.

. .
Mr. WILBERFORCE and Sir FRANCIS BUR- Colonel SHIPLEY stated, that torture was :ii• unwarranted by the' practices arvi clatter"' of the
DINT mutually explained. flitted in Ireland; that he himself had seen it se In. ! House. He trusted that neither his lion. Friend
Mr. CANNING, as a Member of the Committee, dieted, by order of the High Sheriff for the county I behind him, tor his No Friend by his side, were
whose Report was on the table, was of opinion, of Tipperary. He had there seen a man flogged in be Ito . intimidated by the menacing expressions of
that the measure proposed by the Noble Lord, was the market.place, more severely than he hid ever. i that' Hon. Gentleman. [filar, • hear l] With re.
las well calculated to meet the case before the Honse, seen a soldier flogged, and without any Coort-Mar- .pest to the Incidental discussion which had taken
las any that could possibly be.devised. If his mind tial. • During the rebellion, he had witnessed such , Axes he should not regret it, if it had the elfee, of
had any bias, it would lean rather to the granting, a scenes every day ; men were tied up and flogged to , teaching the people the inestimable bkssings of Iran.
'great extent of power, than to the abridging that make them give evidence. He did not. say that it was !quillity. Dreadful as had been the scenes in Ireland,
which was called for. Not, as founded on the Re- . with the kuowledge of
,Government, he spoke only ; this country had often witnessed atrocities equally
port—but as connected with ether circumstanoes, of facts. . I revolting. • Ail Hon. Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett),
which, though he believed them, had not sufficient ; Lord CkSTLEREAGH admitted the case of theldistinguishM fbr his contempt of all constituted au-
j credence attached to them, to authorize their beinglSheliff of
.Tipperary; but said that he had been, in • thorities, had mentioned the case of a women wt-.'
brought into the Report But, on (ha face of the !eibsequence, convicted upon two actions, and fined ' had been hanged at Lancaster for stealing potatoes.-../
Report, such facts were stated as left no alternative ; In both. , # 'The facts of the case he begged leave to state.—A
, but to call on the Legislature to provide for the Mr. TIGHE supported the measures intended to farmer, who had brought his potatoes to market, on
safety of the country during the Recess. He', he adopted ,• but objected to several of the statements ; finding the shops shut, returned, and was followed
had divided in the Committee with his Honourable of the Noble Lord with respect to Ireland. He was 'by the mob. The woman in question gained posses.
Friend (Mr. Wilberforce) as to the examinetion just entering the doors of the House, when he heard lion of hiii cart, and sold the whole of the potatoes
of witnesses. Ilia view in doing so, was not to ' him say, that Government had obtained possession of .at her own price to the multitude. This was the of-
- fortify his opinion on the facts now before the ; 100,000 arms, from which an Englishman might sup- fence, and it was too characteristic of the disorders
' t House—but, had the evidence, if produced, sub- : pose a hundred thousand stand of arms was meant. It and turbulence which prevailed. He was fully col-
istantiated what his Honourable Friend had as- t• Those were was no such thing, however. arms all vinced that revolutionary principles were at the bot..
Iserted on his own knowledge, that those disturbances : pikes, and they were merely pikes of parade and tom of these disturbances, and that- the temporary
' arose from a political, and not a commercial -cause, shew, and made on purpose to surrender to the distress that. was felt was only the pretext.
then he should have thought the present Bill would; emissaries of Government, when ~
they came in search , Mr. lIU TCHINSON explained, that he had not
have fallen.short of the case, and he would have been ! of them.—[A laugh.] —As a.proof, he would state, 'meant any disrespect either to the Hon. Gentleman
ready to support more extended measures. As, how- that not twenty-four hours after those 100,000 arms or to the House. He persisted in the truth of his
7 'ever such a state of things was not made out, and ' were lodged in Dublin Castle, the rebellion broke former statement, and certainly disapproved of the
as he would rather err in not coming up to the case, ' out, and every rebel had a pike in his hands. I last expression of the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Crokei4
than in going beyond it, especially when connected I Mr. HUTCHINSON regretted that the Noble ,in which he seemed to express his contideuce that all
;with the statement of the Noble Lord, not to let Lord, whose caution in debate was usually, such as his. (Mr. Hutchinson's) statements -*might easily De
' any feeling of ineonveniettca prevent the Govern-Ito 'prevent him from laying himself open, had, on .disproved.*., .. ~_ . „ ~ ... .
meta from calling Parliament together, to concert that occasion, uttered things which would almost call I Mr. ROBINSON observed, that his Hon. Friend
other measures, if necessary, 'he fully concurred in i upon those to speak in that House who never spoke ' had not contradicted the Hon. Gmtleman, but had
the proposition. It was their duty to look to those before, and who, he was sorry to add, must reply merely explained his own statement.
on whom the law was to epera,e. If they were to to him by an uttlnalified contradiction of what he ' h,lr. FULLER, said—" Sir, I rise upon a point of
view a mall, not in the commission of a crime, but in had asserted. The Hon. Gentleman observed, that : surgery—The Gentleman speaks of a dead body
the act of expiating it, that mind most be hardened he had listened with considerable distrust and appre- ' weltering in its blood—What, after the circulation
indeed, which, in the r. collection of his punishment, hension to the first notice which was given respect- !of the veins is stopped—poh, ridiculous!"—[hear,
did not forget his-guilt. But they must look not only j ing the introduction of new measures, the object ' hear!] •
'to those is horn they were to punish, but those whom of which might indeed be defended, but the eonse- I The Bill was then-brought tip and read a first time,
they were to save. In the list of the saved they were qnences of which, he feared, might be of a very ambi- I,when Mr. WHITBREAD gave notice that he should
not to confine themselves to those whose lives were guous nature. When, however, he heard the Noble divide the House on the second reading. ,
in continual danger from the rioters—but they were Lord talk of the possible necessity of assembling j Mr. PARKER COKE moved that the Report of
to include in the list those who were not already Parliament for the purpose of adopting yet stronger; the Frame-work Knitters' Bill be taken into further
drawn into an infraction of the laws—and those who, measures, and in addition to this,, heard him : consideration.
though not guiltless, had not yet stepped in so far deny the existence of torture in Ireland during I After some coniersation between Messrs. Vansit-
as to make " returning as tedious as go o'er." The. the unfortunate period of the rebellion, his alarme tort, Coke, Hume, and John.Sinkh, Lords Newark
Honourable Gentleman then replied to the objections was not a little increased. To the fact of the i and Castlereagh, the Report was ordered' to be.
offered to the measure by Mr. Whitbread and Sir F. practice of torture having-prevailed, particularly in I brought upon Monday. .
Burdett. Although the evidence did not bear out the and near Dublin, at that time, he could pledge him-I Mr. SHERIDAN postponed his motion respect-
, exact form of words made use of by the Noble Lord, self. It had been asserted that they were not authoe I big Mr. St. John Mason to Tuesday.
when he spoke of " an army," still it could not be rised or approved by the Government ; he could, . TOLERATION ACT.
denied that an armed force existed—That men were ,however, state from his own personal knowledge, Lred, CASTLEREAGH obtained leave to bring
drilled, and that arms were stolen, was proved.— that atrocities, the most cruel, had been perpetrated in.* Bill to repeal certain Acts, and to amend others,
i And though these circumstances might take place at in the very seat of the Government, under lts eye, I !espectiug the religious worship of Protevant Die.
the extremities of a county, it would be going too .and within its hearitig.—[flear, hear, hear n—He I miters. Ili stated that, in consequence of certain
far to suppose, that the men who wero drilled, and had seen the victim of -these outrages paraded through I ileersious at -the Quarter Sessions doubts had. ariseN
the arms which were stolen, were never to meet.-- the city, and exposed, for the purpose of adding in- ias to the question of qualifications. The object of
The measure, he thought, was completely justified, dignity to torture, to the gaze of the metropolis. Ile : the intended Bill was to place the Dissenters in the
although he was not of opinion that the mischief had wished, therefore, that those Members who were i‘,..1 situation in which they practically stood previous to
its root in political designs. norant of what bad faked place in Ireland, should i•sucit decisious. • .
Mr. WILBERFORCE explained. ,be on their guard before they committed the liberties I Mr. WM. SMITH expressed his satisfaction at
The Hon. Mr. LAMB said, it could not be de- of this country to the discretion or the mercies of ! the introduction of such a measure, though it did
Inied that some measure was necessary to restore that Noble Lord. He had himself, at a time when I not go the length to which he could wish it to ex-
: tranquillity to the disturbed counties, lie would he was in a yeomanry corps, on one. occasion ' tend. '
not oppose the bringing in of the Bill, which, if f interfered to dis•;uatie the Captain of the Guard from The Bill was then brought In, 'read a first time,
necessary, might be modified hereafter. sultrrine the infliction of the torture in the pre. and ordered to: be read a second time on Monday.
Lord CASTLEREAGH contended that the evi- sonce t;f, the "oups. He had seen persons Drop had • ~ • • FRENCH PIrISONE.RS.
I ' dente which was required in the Committee had not sutfe;--d afterwards brought into the Castle-yard and Lord CASTLEREAGH . give
.notice, that. he
, been produced, because it was thegeneral opiitiotrthat ; eshii,iied, c ;veeed* with blood, in the straw. It Would on Monday move for leave to bring in a Bill
' if produced it would not have materially affected the I was nielatieholy to recal such recollections, and lie 1 making the offence of aiding French Prisoners a fe.
general result of the enquiry. With regard to the ; wished they could be buried in oblivion. When robY•
objections of ass Hon. Member under the gallery, that I that i chi.' Hoe broke out, although no man had been . The other Orders of the Day were then disposed
I the Act for searching for arms would not be effeetual I more hoitile to the Government than himself, het ofs and the House ndjou 11 wd till ,Monday.

cheerfully lent his support and exposed his person
in its defence. It was his belief that Lord Camden
had disapproved of the proceedings of that day.—
Ile deemed it necessary to make these observations
after what had been indirectly introduced into the
debate. Upon the subject immediately before the
House, enough had certainly been proved to call the
attention of Parliament, not, however, to enact new
laws, but to give full operation to those in existence.
[Hear, hear!] He viewed with jealousy any power
of entering private houses, and the indecorous li-
cence, so far as it regarded the female members of
families, that was too often exercised in Ireland,
strengthened his objections to any authority of this
kind. After all, every evil under Which the coun-
try was now labouring, might be traced to that fatal
system of policy which had been maintained for the-
tast 20 years. To alter that system,and recur to ra-
dically sound principles of government, *as, in his
estimation, the best means of allaying the discontents,
'by removing or alleviating the distresses of -the peo-
ple. [Hear,. Hear !]
Mr. W. SMITH approved of the object of the
Bill, but must at the same time express his belief in
the statements made relative to the practice of tor-
•tare its Ireland, and he took therefore this opportu-
nity of saying, that no condition of things in this
country which he could imagine, could ever justify
the adoption of similar proceedings.
Lord CASTLEREAG II again-declared, that the
Government of Ireland had never lent their sanction
and authority, to the practices alluded to.
Mr. CHOKER rose to make a few observations
on one of the statements made by an Hon. Gentle-
man (Hutchinson), on the other side of the House.. • DisO.—On the sth ult. John Holliday, of Milthay, near Leeds,
He had said, that he himself had seen two dead b°- Igrial-cgtieHeren bialasdkfaintzgebreatAmw.tiare":"lntiNid3,94lw"aFirroti
dies-exhibited in straw In the Castle-gird. He (Mr. i.lOO tes citillreiandgrand-chlidren,-attended his funeral °tithe
Creker), being then on guard as a private volunteer ;1011(2.41g Soodo3CPPlWOoitrhielelforlachildreollo thus: John
Mad seen the.bodies brought in. They were the bo- g,e4Vasedbrlllistetreoo6.uVotiT4l6.27l-2-6-6Atil Brbrleatrt ha
r
dies of two men who had fallen la action with the near Tavistock,ned 111, Slizabeth Williams. Within the last •
party, and thes. lone years disuse nit all time Terre !—Lately, Jean Ray,
King's troops, leaders of the rebel at finsebnisle, era of Eleie. For Matsu 50 vents
purpose of exposing them was, - that they might be Meer life, she bed dneref krself in male attire, obstinately
recognised, and their names ascertained.—{Hear, deott'd her ser, and W6I4:eU as .day
hear!]--Having stated this from his own personal) Wetirrlayi the 17th0 nit. an oultbreageonsastak was made on a
knowledge, it was possible that others might be en* ; 7frvv/Intfr:t.ewlacyoun:t of Lootlith. Havingoe " had sul"leak dkil;ptrei
abled to contradict the other statements of the Hon.lwith the unfortunate worms', be ilifeibly dragged tilk to the
river, at tha.brkige of Faoc, threw her in, and w. ile in
Gentleman. tuation be netted mid abased her inloortiet mouser. She was
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) declared his COMIC. rescued from usifeeliag fellow, wits sod across the river,' but
! of the abase on the tbllbvi trig lily.. A Corooer's Inquest
Lion, that neither the Lord Lieutenant of that day, sat ms the hohr
nor 'any of his confidants, gave their countenance to hive the vengeance''s.do7Crbeerdiatt sbeedityu"tovetiftakwa: rt"pdhe rufiWatf.
atrocities, which, however, were certainly committed brughsda News better.)
to the full extent that had been itated. • On-Saturdat se'nnight, twOmen who have been in the habit of
Mr. HUTCHINSON explained. He had said
.vceeintethirynfini..cwloterlisreapaivnelte:ed;:shent heithebourlloodnearamCiasstlelrorwich,
nothing but what be knew to be fact ; and the Hon, epee men one of the. 242 YdLuenot:
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Creker) had better take and his head nearly severed from his
vend with his throat cut,
care bow be. ventured to deny any assertions of his.— tit; i•Autt jetey ; w was given. sad
Yb companion es v
as found folding same pieces of town.
[Cries of order, order I] on which were bloody marks, and upon searching him, ii:s
breecilp:iznats
circumstances
found covered with' blood, nta
Mr. RYDER vehemently condemned -11 m assay moriaVer. appearing, he was COM:uit•
guage of the last speaker) as altogether unusual and ted to prison at Birmingham.

POLICE.

WHITECHA PEL.
Thursday Francisco —, a Portuguese sailor/
was brought up, and underwent examination, being
charged with burglariously breaking open and en.
tering the dwelling-house of Mr. Moses, in East
Smithfield, and stealing thereout several articles of
wearing apparel, and four pounds in money. The
evidence adduced against him being corroborated,
and the fact sworn tu, he was fully committed to
Newgate for trial.
I John Horocll was brought up and underwent a final
examination, being charged with stealing a large
quantity of Spanish wool, from the premises of the
Prisoner's employer, in Well-street, Wellclose-
' square, which property was traced to his possession,
! acid identified by the Prosecutor—the charge being
Very strong, the Prisoner was fully committed to
Newgate for trial. , •
UNION-HALL.
James Wilkinahaw, a respectable publican, re-
siding in the neighbourhood of the Borough, who
was, by mistake, represented as having been fully
committed' for trial, for a rape en the. person of hi.
servant, a girl about 15. years of age, was brought
op for 're-examination yesterday; when, upon the
;evidence of Mr. Hayton, a respectable surgeon, of
iCharlotte-street, Blackfriars'-road, and several other,
Wrcumstances of the case, the Magistrates being
ligonvinced the charge was unfounded, the complaint
Dias dismissed, and the Prisoner discharged.

.a

w.

•

;rer hadili
was lint
•eoold giae
were actual
Mr. %VII
titr
plated with
of the cots
ways be ft
able Med)
seemed pr
mii;bt dem!
in
was propar
for the lin
was the a
astern of
tile (:over)
gestures el
not assent
but he op
heard him,
said, he wi
if cireumsti
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he contend(
Ile hoped t
blood care
lielaad.
rimmed liar
Gentleman
t ha
Lord, tint I
or. any ma!
was
!owes into
POI, but hi
the 'laconic
mode of
people, wh
p
‘-‘!•Olit
Alf Mlideoli
at all. AI
the purpos
Every man
sad his fa
to give a /I
bunt from
;nig
nniiral)
w 're .5111%.1
to suppress
the inform
acts had no
lie was info
who came
that
w ..h exagg
at:udttltol
Eased io roe
their og n
tip moor,
fel wa rils co
There were
Chester of
ter, *omen
pattoe
untied to t
gust, and h
these (Twut I
his h
jeers of Ro
to believe tl
'listed at CI
Tember for
drawn by tl
4141e:tee ht,
rose 11 OM
the evident.
dens in Co
misery to
there was n
for the dist
etlvrts dim
r..;!o•rant lx
tli,tresses.
tributed thi
Then he mi
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ilito a felt,
press and
cep( the gri
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as nbsolu
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reeded to r
Secret Corr
11 hat seen
in all the n
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tho,gh not
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to remove
teut:—he
would not,
tend, d
at larg" bel
sures prop.
stain from
In and the
ile was of
stood, wei
forced; wh