The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-04-24 00:00:00

STATESMAN,

en eetieli,The .. liew there ;lie One most re-
spectable fieollyln tavOur of it, but one 'voice was of
little consequence, and he would contend that not
one in a hundred: of the Protestants of Inland would
sign such a Petition. There were some Dissenting
Ministers belonging to the North of Ireland, who
were turned out of their Meeting Hensel and lock-
ed out for ever for having done so. To attempt to
impose such things as the sense of the people of Ire-
land was a gross deception, which he was confident
the Right lion. Gentleman would not have practised,
if he had known the quarters from which they came.
The Roman Catholics were not above three to two,
taking in the lower classes and all : so much for their
wealth and numbers, and their numbers was the
strongest point insisted on. Let the House reflect
upon this; let them see if in any other country this
'lower orders were called the nation. The Protes-
tants themselves, he maintained, were able to keep ,
down rebellion, as they had done in the year 1798,1
The Protestants were in some measure surprised at
that period—they knew that something was prepar- "
ing, but were not aware that it would break out so
soon. Many thousands 'of Protestants were mur-
dered on that occasion; in cold blood. The defeat
of Vinegar Hill, which followed shortly after, was
accomplished as independently of the Marquis Corn.
wallis, as of any other General remaining in this-
country. Such was the state of the Tuition, and so
the English Ministry seemed to think, for the first
,coarse, they adopted was• to send- the Bockinglainee
shire militia, commanded be the Marquis of Buckinee:
ham and his Ludy[er laugh] to that part ofthe United •
Kingdom. The actions of the Catholics in the army.
and navy were mach dwelt upon its pamphlets, but
the fact was, that one half, or more; connected with
each service from. Ireland were Protestants.. A corn.;
man soldier could live better than a labourer, and
this was a great inducement to draw them from their
hOmes. The Roman Catholics, he would again re-
peat, had a better security for their liberties than the,
people of ally other contitrye, not excepting France,
Germany, or Italy. They were not dragged by the
conscription to the chains of a despot, but entered ,
voluntarily into the service. As to the navy, nothing'
but shipping could breed sailors. They called emane
cipation, what he, Would call revolution ; for never, I
not even accepting the Revolution of France, was I
there a -measure Which would go so cOmpletely to'
revolutionise a country. • Their numbers too, might{
be considered in another point of view.' . There were
thirteen millions of Protestants in Great Britain, and I
could thejeebe 'called upon to sacrifice the con.:
stitation'of their country to the wishes
.of two mil.;
lions five hundred thousand of the lowest orders of
society ? Even if thelheoretical,opinions of Doctor ;.
Paley were adopted, andethe'reajority- allowed to de.
cide thteritigiois of the Staie; the Cathblici could
noe•eueceed. He entitled- to the sentiments of Dr.
Navy and Dr. Milner, and the letter of .Dr. Cepinger
to thoDeblin Society, which he characterised as a
-mist intolerant production—the former excluding
the Catholics from all but Catholic schools, and the
}atter prohibiting Catholic servants from attending
Protestant prayers in their masters' houses. Ile then i
went on and quoted the oath of the Catholic Bishops,l
.b which they were sworn to be faithful to St. Peter, I.
Holy Church ot-Rome, and the Pope, to defend I
Jibe royalty of st. Peter against all men, and to con-
tribute all in their power to augment and promote his,
&minion. The temporary imprisonment of the Pope
afforded no reason for neglecting, these circum.;
stances. He (Dr. D.) was represented as an ene.
-my to theßoman Catholics, but lie never was an ene-
my
to them in any thing except the, possession of
political power, which he should always oppose. He
next adverted to the oath 'administered to Parish 1
Priests, by which they swore obedience to the Pope,
as the Vicar of Jesus Christ. Such, he maintained,
were the oaths prescribed by their general councils,
and yet they called for Emancipation, or, in other
words, for an equal share of political authority. On
looking to the decrees of the Lateral Council, which
'Dr. Troy acknowledged, they would' find that sub-
jects were permitted to dethrone their Prince, if he
did not expel heretics from his dominions. In the ,
thtee following Councils they would find, that the
same principles were inculcated, and that oaths to
Protestants, as heretics, are nut considered as bind- '
ing. It was observed, that Protestants were never
disaffected in Catholic countries ; and the reason
'was, that Protestants were liberal to all. As to the
loyalty of the Catholics, he must say, that 'while
bound in allegiance to a foreign Prince. heecould
only call them peaceable, not loyal. Such a jea-
lousy did Bonaparte feel towards the Clergy, that
be nominated every parish Priest in France; and
what reason could be given why the King of this i
country should not feet an equal jealousy, and;
insist on a similar nomination ?—Persons of the de-
scription
of which he was speaking were more dan-
gerous in a popular Government like this than under I
a despotic Monarchy. The Pope, after all that could I
be said, must.possess a great share of temporal power
arising out of his spiritual prerogativei. . It had been
said, that in the case of marriages they were subject
to the law of the land; but Supposing every thief/
else to be granted, would not the Catholics come,
piths against that circumstance as an interference,
with their religious rights? It was impossibleto se.
parate Spiritual from Temporal Power, even in Pa;
gap Rome; and a man put in possession of the se-
crets of another by the confession of the Catholic
Church, must have an influence over human conduct
which would render their power of great importance.
Sir 3. C. HIPPISVEY commenced his speech aji
replying to some of the arguments and acsertiest
made by Dr. Duigenan, particularly with regard Me
the Pontifical Oatn, which he had read to the Howie..
without informing it that Dr. Troy had-conceded the
point of the temporal Supremacy of the Pope, in by
pastoral letter of 1799. The ,Hon. Bart. •weesef
opinion thatthe House should resolve itself Milk
ICommittee merely for-the purpose of arrangiserthe,
future proceedings; but that the more tedious tbeigl
important examination of the oral and •documestary
evidence which it would be necessary to idduce
should be referred to a Sete, Commite
tended that the Pontifical!

had been Modified try
the Empress Catharine
anion% words, " -
were omitted, sad..
meg ordiee,' had been
it had afterwards • 1.

~..:,~_~

to the Sovereignty of Great Britain'duty
by which the his as much as possible to secure union at home.
Jam deposed—" all this I swear as not being con- Could he wish to promote a measure which appeared
trary to the allegiance I owetotheKing of Great Bri- to him to sow the seeds of new contests and rivalry,
twin. —At the Council of Lateren 70eanons, two of which would secure nothing but tumult le theeoinsets
doctrine,nnd the remainder of disciplinewere proposed, and intrigues in the conclusion?—{Keay, hear !j.
but they were never formally decreed, as was necessary Ile was desirous to view thiS question by the light
to their validity, as the only object of the then Pope which history afforded, and the,; assisted, he could
(one of the • most arbitrary that ever occupied the anticipate the future from the eeperience of•the past.
Papal chair) Was merely to obtain a supply for his Whenever this argument was employed, Gr mermen
revenue. The discipline enjoined by the Council of on the other side exclaimed that times were changed
Trent had never been received. That the canons of but were they so much altered' that the path hither.
lateren had never been decreed' was evident from to pursued would afford us no ri rs of j (Lelof
the authority of Matthew Paris, and Gregory the the rend that yet remained uetrOendden? Was-tl-
thisi a
rlth. The speech which the Right Ron. Gentleman period for acts that were doubtfel, or changes that
(Dr.:Duigenan) had this night delivered, sus much were stidden2—Was this a taste for tampering with
mere moderate than any of his preceding attacks'up- I the crucible' and for iiiseteio ingredients which per.
on the Catholics, and mach more temperate than se- ' haps would explode and &ahoy the work wiecit it
venal of his pamphlets, hi some of which be had not I had cost such labour to accomplish ?Ie was said that
scrupled to assert, " That the whole of the Itomanists the Catholics were numerous—if so, it only rendered
at one time entered into a conspiracy with the French, Its less.proper le censply with their request, since what
!directing to overthrow the Government of the mien- lit was dangerous to concede to a small body, it wee-
, try.l, At another time, he. had maintained, "That i doubly dangerous to grant to a laree community.—
I every Catholic was in his conscience a traitor;" 'sad '' The supporters of these claims seemed to be blind
that-" every Catholic Priest was an anent of. Satan) to the precipice, to the. brink of which they weier
and an astray from hell." fast hurry ing. ' It was because he valued and se-
Dr. DWG ENAN expressed his dissent. .
el 'peeled the Irish—it was because they cheerfulli
Sir J. C. lIIPPISLEY was happy that the Right J.bled for the general cause, and perhaps had (wee
Hon. Gentleman appeared to repent his inteMperatel now gathered' immortal laurels on the p!ains t f
effusions, but certain it was, that on purchasing the : Badajos, that he wished to avert from t ..n the
wont;. the lion. Baronet was informed by the Book.: !*Calamities which he was convinced Penaeelreee
eetles,"4lrat Dr.kpuigetian wee the-many- of it. Af.. i .would eletep.4-{lLrre, taw, 1r0gr14,44.. OA
' ter some further remarks upon the difference of lan- I•not wonder that ILL (gentlemen who advocated the
guage employed slow and heretofore, the lionoara- cause of thiCatholics, expressed peculiar pity cur
i ble Baronet proceeded at some length on the untie- ; the repeated defeats they had experieneed; since the
I rities of Le hope, St. Austin, and other eectesiasti- i dieappointments.the Gentlemen 113 d themselves Weis-
cal writers, to prove that the Popish doctrine of Ex-.lendured; no doubt created in their mindsn poignant .
elusive Salvation had been misconceived bkmany, awl evinpetlty. lie begged the HO{IIKI in general, how.
misrepresented by others ; according to professors of ever, pot to allow itself to be hui•Aed array by Warm
divinity of the first celebrity, those were not exclud- descriptions of misfortunes wh'lcia had no. existence
! ti ed from salvation, who from ignorance were tiab:e to but in assertion, 'end to re Sect Sec upon the consequences
make their election. Ile quoted several public arts that must inevitably ensue, if thedisabilitice were re.
of the See of Rome,' to stiew that among Catholics moved. The Roman Catholics Were. nose •a . party.
from very early times it had been held an abominable' withput power ; ..they would then -be. iseParty wins
crime to assert that Princes could be deposed or mur- i power' 'and what fatal concessions might, they not
dered by their subjects. With regard to the much employ that poWer.at some distant period to extort ?
disputed point of the veto, he feared that ho should .- [Hear, hear !j It was not the Mess, the convoce-
s
! disappoint manyzealousfriends of emancipation by as- tion of Angelis or. the Worship of the Virgin to
serting that it. ought not to be insisted upon, because , , which he objected; he revered them fur their anti;jui•
it had at former periods been abandoned, and that •ty, but he dreaded the artifices of those nho practised
i unless the point were resigned, it would not be fit that them. It had been said that the Catholics in Great
the disabilities should be removed. Ile entered into Britain ought to be placed on the same footing as the
Is long detail of historical facts to establish his asset- ' Catholics elsewhere, but the difference between the
; lion, contending that even in 1799, a willingness had ! Constitution of this country 'and that of other ma-
'been expressed to concede to the King this contested ' tions was never contemplated. Tile Remishßeligion
poweri and cited the works and opinions of several ; might be tolerated, and even rendered, advantageous
' Catholic dignitaries, among whom was the Bishop oft in absolute Monarchies, but it would always ;el .bee-
Castlehae. In Spain itself, during the reign of Charles gerous to, and ofteu.subversive of every•othersvetsen
.111. in 1761, the King had declared, and the declare- of Government, more particularly or the-free Cenci-
don accepted by the Church, that he would allow 1 tution of this kingdom which hadsuloisted.so long by
no person to be appointed to a vacant See, unless he the exclusion,of Popery. It bad grown intoa proverb,
had been previously approved by the Court. Even !that fire was a good servant but. a bad master ; and
' Dr. Daigenan himself, in 1793, had avowed, that if ! when once the Catholics obtained the ascendancy, its
the
Roman Catholics would make oath that they I teeth might be established. Ile. did not •wish that
would concede it as a tenet of their faith, he would , they should be degraded, hut he was anxious that ee
believe them. The Honourable Baronet afterwards should be secure. The •Honourable Gentleman. was
took notice, in terms of dissatisfaction, of the ' aware that it Was asserted by the friends of Catholic
conduct of Doctor Milner, who, by his imprudent i' Emancletinas.jtwes.anelledzite t ,
_pr
zeal) bad again opened--the wetindi erroneoutlyThililiciPles vilita were soppoT4tpeenrere 1 iconduct
imagining that the British Government was endea- : of the Catholics had boon. disclaimed. by them, • In
Touring to over-reach the Catholics, notwithstand; 1 I doing so, however, he wa,s4Sepinier the Rorattn•Ga.
ing they had stated in a Synod assembled for the i tholice disclaime,d Oct mufti,' t 'They'Jul pot 'deny
purpose, that the denial of the right of Veto to the i merely, that such prineiptes pranaximndid.not new
King, was at that time inexpedient. Even down to exist but:they denied tbaLthey ever had exited. He
1810, the resolution of 1799 had not been rescind. was r'epailto allow, that. the charges:agaiust Jim
ed. A Paper published on the very morning of thii iternan Catholics had come to us in an exaggerated
debate ( Morning Post) contained some remarks estatete— • . .
which it was necessary to notice, because they were t. fume truths there were, thetteh dm-h'sl and mis'd oitheies,
founded in injustice and falsehood, and was a con- 66 To &see the teen'', end puzzle all the wi-r." .., • _
' tinuation of a series of similar productions. The !•But he was deterred, however much he might beee
Catholic Committee was here charged with intolerant I been Inclined to favour their application, from at all
behaviour, and with circulating reprinted copies .of entertaining It, in consequence of their rejection. of
' Ward's Errata, the most infamous work ever pub- 'the Veto. He could not conceive on sibi.t prinCipla
fished.. The lion.: Baronet warmly viudicated the ° the Roman Catholics held that a'refitsal, on the part
Catholic Committee from both these aspersions, prov. I of the Government' of this country, to allow as a
ing that the book alluded to Wei brougtit out-by the ; matter of right, the interference of any, 'foreign
bookseller, who owned it; merely for his own pri. I power or authority, in the choice of the clergy of a
sate emoluraent,.anal that Dr. Troy had freely join. : church recognized by the Government of this country,
ed in the censure of an act so improper at the present 1 could be esteemed an usurpation by the members rf
i period. The remarks introduced into the same pub- that church. The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to
licatioe, regardin 46 the lamentable situation of the the question of Security. In no circumstances er
two Universities,' deserved equal reprobation, at. I times, according to his opinion of thee ;natter, could
though it was true that the Petition presented to the : complete freedom be granted to the Roman Cacho-
; ether House of Parliament on Tuesday, had been ' lies, without some satisfactory security ! So far,
hurried through with a dignity little becoming the ' however, was any such security from being offered,
dignity of the scholastic institution from whence it that it seemed to be expected, that this country
had been issued. Upon the whole, after the most I should pledge itself to Catholic Emancipation, with.
serious and painful enquiry, all that the Hon..Baro., out hearing any of the terms on which it was asked.
net. could concede was, that he was willing the ;It would be a strange bargain, indeed, where a. per-
' Catholics of Ireland should be placed on a footing : son was stipulating to take money. of nn Weiler
equal to that which they held in any Catholic State. i standard, that he should be compelled to allow the
Ile appealed to the English history, commenting person from whom he was fo receive the deterioratds
with William I.- and terminating with James 11. to
i prove that no such dangers were to be dreaded, as 6z the rathteleofwadsi9Caoutni.mt.6 Ttoteenfri.ileHiglith:leidf
the money,
Catholicsto 6
, many persons apprehended, and terminated a speech : might have this, .Pledge,
I but that the tinte was pea'_
1 of much research, by impressing upon the House the '
I necessity of acceding to the motion, to which (de- What, he asked, was there a sort of contpouiul
I interest running on this Bill, so that it. could
r mending only investigation) he did not think even :never be discharged iu full ? Ile wished to 544. i
the Hon. Member for Yorkshire could object. •
'the terms on which it was expected that theclaimself
Dr. DUIGENAN explained, denying that he was t the Catholics should be granted, examined before
the
soaker of several of the passages quoted by the' they were acceded to. The Gentlemen oppesite, he
hoped would agree with him in thinking, that. it
last p. . i 9
hlr. W. BANKES observed, that after the discus- was better that the fundamental principle should be
sion of this subject during many-years, the question i first settled, rather than that the House should go oe,
had now been reduced to a very harrow compass • 1 and then find the hopes of those for whom thief
the supporters of the Catholic claims had at length I were interfering dis a P°
inted. If this meneere
should full
abandoned their defenceless outworks, and had ree should, however, be adopted, and
i tr
tired to their last citadel, there to make a desperate Ito be prejudicial, he hoped it would not be urn.
hand. The bested, declamations on the &ring in.. that this had been done by theh sense of the fseop.ep.-_--
Islisteocy of, the rights of citizens and the rights He knew the House should
,e•ar of a cry of No oi-
i, had coiled down into. something like pm I Had Gentlemen opposite never used any sr, a
• • • • • I lied theye never
plain agates/ht., - and the simple. point now to cry acted on the.. passions of this
• •
could say "las this—if the EnsVss t
be decided war, whether it was fit that , the people ? All
. restrictions epos-the ItomanTitthollts should.b4 re- '
peasant doubted -
of something under the ila Me et No
inoved,?. Mach-had-been said 'of the; insecurity of the Popery, 'of which he Knew nothing, the Irish p,--1..
realm it the tlaimewerxemtet eincieded; we were re- sant asked for something, under the name of Eina....
rolinimrof she million# thotAould enlist under our cipation; Of which it knew as little.
tit- -
batmen if the ilisabilitiei nt Wire - ed,, and a se- Lord BINNING conceived the question now.
... ,
-ed thee -astiiii the sign of 't' - - •,, cal- fare the Houslgoutte within a narrow compass,, be. •
~
ti-thattiiie ear A. - - • - 73 was ad. That,
now a question of qXpedieney. ,.
,_
nOw Tried on the part of the: Etn.hun Cliq,li•.: •
was admitted, could notbe iisifted,,onte.ss It •
be shewu, that the professions eetertalnerl,hr
were dangerous to the country, or to the _Cons
q• He was happy to hear this dnetrine re. .
readily by his Right Honotnable Priced.

~_..

~.

t would -be necessary to iddlice 1 banners if the disabilities wire removed,, and a se- /Jona 1
to a Select Committee. -Re con- 1 coed time tinder the sign of "the Ziess* we were cal- fare the l
rotifical _Oath, so much objected to, led *pea tat•iblatireeotri 441E47110C* It, indeed, this ing, as wi
1 fly the Pope, en the demand of "were a dined diffienfty and tinker, was ft fit that claims no
arine of• Russia, when the- "off- we *grafi Isesysf- oiaT main:plankii to vibrate in the lics, it wa
Heretical persequar et opugitek," Man% ler engtd.amt-ridanurrafrje smart tp be:isnown,. could be
1. the clause-commeiciug "SA and.to.stanalgas Oa . t, xhilfia tlvg.seggpesifs sib( fate at- them were
been introduced. An'ad)ition sidle& dur s. Verls 2 4 ...vailocAlkui r*:sop,thet stitution,
;- been made applicable eapiessti : berisktedilielatidnibrolibied; Ficfiel'hoilshtlf celred at
.•
• _ ..
•
. .
•
. .