The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-02-17 00:00:00

SMAN.

- st --- -
the Trustees of the British Museum to give every facility
to the public who required access to that establislmoent.
There were to o classes of persous who required admis-
sion—the tirst consisted of those who came fur the pur-
looses of general inspection, and to that class very great
facilities had been afforded within the last few years;
and he the returns made to the House it appeared that
the number of such visitants was not leas than 511,000
in the year. The other class of persons who required
admission was the much more important one ; it consist-
ed of literary men and artists, who came for the inspec-
tion of the drawings and medals. It must be obvious to
the House, that it would be dangerous to admit strangers
iudlscritninately to such places; and that therefore some
restrictions-on admissions were necessary. lie happened
to know, that, by the general admission to the valuable
,lihrary in France, eery considerable losses were sustain-
ed. 'I tie question then was, whether the restraint adopted
at the Brutish Moo-emu was too great or too little? It
was said by the lion. Member who introduced the Tao-
sign that no) pet son was admitted to certain parts hut by
the recommendation of sonic of the trustees ; hut it
' should be recollected that there were 43 trustees, and
several of the principal officers of the place, to any of
whom an application might he made, and who would
not refuse it when fair claim was missile. The officers
were all disposed to afford every facility in their power,
and if any enniplaint of neglect on this head were to be
[ made, it would meet with immediate attention. In con
Ilelusion, he stated that the trustees could have no objees
lion to give any account to the House which might b.l
required.
Mr. It. GURNEY and Mr. BRIGHT concurred in
what bad been said respectiug the facility given to the
public in this establishment.
A Nlestaen, whose name we could not learn, ex-
pressed a similar opinion, anal added a suggestion that
it would he better to erect a new building fur the re-
ceptions of the works of arts anal science than to ex-
pend such large suns, on the repairs of the old build-
ing. Ile had no doubt that if a proper receptacle
were erected many valuable works would be bequeathed
for their reception. Ife Impel, that lion. Gents. would
bear this suggestion in ILI el when they came to vote
the annual grant for the Alto. cum.
Mr. BAN li Is S, sen. concuirreo4 in thinking that the
principal building was nut in that state which was fit
tor its destined purpose. This applied pattieularly
to the gallery for the Athenian marbles, but he thought
thaf if additions and improvements were made pro-
gress.ively, year by year, it would he lit for the accom-
modation of the Wilk. In c inclusion, the Hon.
lientlentan observed that it was the uniform inject of
the trustees to avoid every facility to pes 60113 of sCiCilte
'vim visited the establish oat.
TWA:HAM:CLIMB of the EXCIIEVER, after
the testimony whirls was borne to the inclination of
the trustees to give every accomtaodation toll's public
did not consider that it was necessary to pet the
establishment to such trouble as the present motion
would require if carried. He hoped, therefore, the
Ilan. Member would not pees it.
Mr. 11. ti. BENNE I' thought it is (lute, to hear tes-
timony to the great facility afforded to all persons who
visited the British Museum). Ile was aware that, at
Paris there was much more easy access to the public
institutions than lucre ; but at the same time he was
aware that indiscriminate admission gave rise to giesit
losses.
After 4 few words from Mr. Sykes, its allusion
to the fees exacted for admission to Westminster
Abbey, and from Mr. Leonard in reply, the motion
was agreed to, and the accounts ordered to be pro-
duced.

ORDNANCE DEPARTMENT.
Mr. H(-NI E then rose to draw the attention of the
House to the Ordnance estimates fur the present year,
and to submit a motion on that subject ; the reasons for
which he should deem it his duty to state in the first
instance. It was impossible for the !louse to judge
what redactions were practicable or expedient, or to
what extent they ought to be carried wLilst the exist-
ing system of account between the public and the
ordnance Department was allowed to pr,wail. The
Commissioners of Military Inquiry bad in one of their
reports advised that a iliikrent form of accounts should
lie adopted, and it was certainly sing itlar that the
House should have hitherto been content to vote the
sums demanded, on an inspection merely of their total
amount, The reasons for setting out these accounts
in !rieater detail would appear manifest on a reference
to the last ten or twelve years, during which it would
be found that tie snots actually disbursed did net cor-
respond u ith the finance accounts. In the statement
which he was about to make, he should confine him-
self entirely to the Lonal sum charged against the
• public. In Ow Ital. 11517 the sum charged was one
million four hundred and thirty five thousan 1 pounds,
hilst it appeared in the finance accounts to be only one
one hundred and eighty-nine thousand pounds.
In 1M IS, t:ie estimate was 1,2110,000 t, and the actual
expenditure 1,40u,0e11/. In Ito% the estimate was
1.100,1100/., and the amount in the last FinaticeAe-
conn ,was 1,538,1100/. being a ditrertuce 400„0001.
which had in no way been aecnouted for in that
Douse. In order to awes-lair at what ra'e the expen-
diture might be reduced, for reduced it must be, it
was necessary that the House should have some points
of compari.ron, and with this view he would compare
the present rate of expenditure, with the expenditure
at &given period before the last war. He requested-
the attention of the Douse to the expenditure of the
Ordnance Department in the years 1791, 1792, 1793,
rornpared with that of the years 1811 k, ISI9, and
1820. In WA the expenditure was Zi:56,01.10/.y in
1792, 419,000/. ; and in 1793, M 3,0001. ; so the
avera-e expenditure of the three years was about
440,000/. Let the !loose compare this with the ex-
tentliture of the three last years. In ISIS it was
1.400,000.'4 in IMI9 it was 1,500,0001.; and in the
present year it would be 1,390,0001. It would be
fiund, in fact, that the estimate of 18.20 exceeded
tie estimate of 1819, by nearly 200.000/. As the es-
timates were now laid before the House, it was quire
inpossible for any Member to know what was going on
in this department, and be should therefore lay it ground
lutists present motion by stating a few items,in ordet to
shev the House to what extent retrenchment was prac-
ticed*. Ile should be able in the coarse of this in-
quit: to satisfy the house, that no sooner was any
retreichment made in one departinentt than the
antotht, and more than the amount of that retrench-
mentswas immediately added to some °diet depart-
meat. The salaries in the Artillety Department
lissom/ad now to 8,3271. more than the SUM declared
to be 4411cient in the 13th Report of the Commis-
sioners )1 Military Inquiry. is the year 1782, the

wanhdolepirstifi.4ttc,itil t-i 1
departments,Estall ials fe:itta,si nornlsii:l:3;_s,:.,tilitoeimT7l:
1796, when the Finance Committee laid their rte
-
before the House, it was returned of 51,611:I is
11305, it was fixed at 91,6001.; in letie, the ii.o;
lifted became 1411,0001.; and six months after li4t
f‘rixoamountedllllll/lllalllbPlfri2ne.rlr.'eedla)oll'uere 7-11,1:terlt I.:
71treabsentailo'nwi sgaPler.rtiiitTheelmdiirill:-:
Tower and Pall-hall Departmeist was nearly *Ate
what it was in the year 1796. There was a e.....6.1,.....44
30,000/. gratuities fur length of services, a auta
• t:3fro:cra‘en:iisteniercleihyP4sudill:tid,:(lll4l.7°nnfastlts.lgcrsibeeeovaenrtigvheeld:2ftto:l:l,refi;ltlo%.l.lls.l:ia.,y'rbwilonia:%sihielr.ni mortie:111:1:11:41116iis its
receipt of 73,11011/. a rear—(clear, lieu, hen)._
The2se::;4o47lsl.lltwtll:;tl.:sefihrraisorigngtSdraatitlaiteeibilicoulinn
dtoelfiretltsifilt:l ilohoietfase,6l. rialaasAthiettz:::,
1796, and it was expressly stated to be only ' ii—
and granted on account of the extraordinary istatimel:
the price of provisions. Let the tleuse mark The *
gress of this tranaartion. The yam was gradnalljl:
creases! from the year 17% till 1812, when it as -3t4
to 8,000/. The nett year it became 9,600 L, the mu.
year 10,0004 then 15,0001., 210611., and so an tuti
now amounted to 30,11001. And this, the House week
observe, was a sum granted to this department to eaahle
them to meet the pressure of a temporary rise in thi
price of provisions! In the year 1796 the Private at.
eretary.of the Master of the Ordnance, who peersrtare
no services for the public, and wars merely engaaw it,
the prix •sa affairs of the Master-general, receivar a ii.
lary of 3001. a year. The salary of this Prints Se.
critary had hoen increased to 2,6'.10/. a year, aid the
last Committee of that Hottse made a great merit of re•
sliming it from 2,01)01. to 1,5001. a year. '1 lie saliva of
the Public Secretary of the Master-general of the iha
twice had been increased fotirfold. The Are sf LA
Under Secretary having been declared useless, te
IConnuittee of tliat House bad been abolishes!, bat iii
' the House suppose that the salary of NO!. a year tat
therefore saved to the eonntry ? No; there ft,ppeki
to be two I •lerks in the Office sail 3001. a year was se
tnallyslivisled between them.—:(l leer, hear, and laughter'
The saute profuse and profligate expenditnre toot pare
in every other brands of this department. The Sao,
keeper at Dover had received a salary of Wk., sag h
now re:.rest upon a pension of 3391. a year. The lea.
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Ward) bad not deitil
the amount of the salary, but he, (Mr. flume)
was sorry to hear him contradict the statemee
of the • Storekeeper having retired, because he
must have known that a person named Lamp
ley, a Freeman of Queenburaugh, was appointed •
suceeed.hitu. The salary of the Storekeeper at hoer,
in the year 179 G, when he had much more shoves
perform than at the present time, was only 120/., sad
it had been progressively increased till it was sew
5110/. a year. The lion. Meagher went on to sheer
that the amount of expenditure had increased is
the same propartion iu the Colonial Deputise*,
by a camparison of items in the year 17%, aad at
the present tints., at Malta, Gibraltar, Barham,
and the Cape of Good Hope. There was a charge
of 3000/. a year for al establishment for the Mk
nufactnre of gunpuweea at Feverrhatu, where there
was not a single barrel of gunpotvder. In point M
fret, the mills at Feveraliam had been let. la 1.06.
it
at the period when there was notch boast of money,
and after those mills wese let, a new clerk of the sae
of Milienzie was anointel—(Hear.)--More than
a Captain Hely was appointed an inspector of
powder, altholieli there wee no gunteitysler to insert
(A tang's). If the establishins•nt at Faversham en
got rid of, the country would not only save 411001. a
year, but it could dispose of the houses—fur there, •
well as at Sheerness, the various clerk, have hones; la
that they mimic there, but they rent Them out to eta%
' particularly at Sheerness, the clerks themselves resat
at taneenborongle—(Hear!)—Even et Sheerness% ii 11-
si Oa nt , who Iv id only two rooms, lets them out Iv a
keeper of convicts, and resides himself at Qv...fathom*
It was to be observed, that the Ordnance Clerks mew
suffered to vote at election', it would,be for the Buena
consider upon what grosinsla those persons were the
qualified, when persons holding similar situations is da
Unisons and Stamps were incapacitated.—(llear, heir,
hear!)—There wryer three vessels employed ist the Orsis
nansr department at Sheerness. Two fif the hasten
were Jurats of Queenburouels :—(a laugh)—there me
seldom MOM than one Irian on board of them is tinted
peace, as they scarcely ever wade a trip hut in ramie;
wood, the property of the public, to places whereit hot
no right to lie seat. Beside., there were the enter
Magazines, kept up at a considerable expense, and (hies
never could be wanting, finless on pressiug nuclei*
The powder Lep', un hoard usust be deteriorated. lists
as a proof of the sacrifice that was made in that io
partment to election purposes, the sixty-six persons"'
s:riving wages on hoard that craft were all Freewill
gneeishorouali.—(Near, bear !)—lie nitro say that sal
a disposition of the loathe money was corruptioais Oa
broadest seise.—!n the lloc•k-yaids, if a poor Ishoulr
-took two laws nails he became liable to tremens'
tion, but be cowls' prove the fact that Storekeepers MU
take them away with • impunity it imatesfull.—(lirss.
boar!)—At Waltham Abbey there was for the reads'
meet 1,113/. for repairs, 7,0011/. although not a thlt
sand barrels of gunpowder were mamifactured eds.
There was another item of 45,0001. fur gunners-6f
they were -Isacised it was inpossilde to understaitin
Waltham Abby there was said to be statione•l a Tiff_
rant, who kept a grocer's shop nine miles 06. !t
Woolwich .1,000/. was paid to clerics. a win that resew. •
the aitiouut paid to all the individuals emp e,___
artificers and labourers. In these eithoales shere_,":
Lie items to the easoant of 35,000/. fut tAllit secuw".._
of old stores. That money, he wrelersteol, Tolt_Law
pensled amongst persons specially sent from, ni
.quarters to the out depots, although each of *el"!
its... own local establishment which could Iliirbit
`the flow.
le What, he wiell"
(Mr. Ward) to one observation.
corps of artificers' and etigiarers (rum b
liseielisnebac.r.edeotnoneccatelld thawithattethitetion :
know, prevented the returns of the arteiilnlegryiaialinai;it's
t
tilm
ie
e rile:ltseinseniatsitopfatrlaietelvineegiiiisn't4ltise.itAkenthye "ElNSteilnalailatel: !):111"
would afford the House great facility
tinalietedaeatafiiilst.he Ireleturs:wpowtromoaltijeeiettlittihneit.lOuunvsnuch rsa;1911"•41:3.
referred to the Civil Establishment of tin College
ItaWodobltetreinehr,ewduhcicedh eboystlthliiee
peroessiti.intrtym7:4•teS9rtur_• 11•11...1.01
1171.65tioniat touncyl3yoivo,uitbniiiigtaoheffihacieseurspenamyaistliikeiodnutsnlisietnoygsrbte:"s:24l:ol7o7;94li
llllboght it not only expensive, bat batwings, "14
i
C;ll9lstihenlis eiarPTltsrtintioecttlih"taleamrEriseYstotlrvvrauebh:erd;teiornat:knihreeteireriesill"wttistribierit tdoesehrttwacii:haft:Ygrh":l:l6:
ezplanation bat three words, via. IterarnsOrlTTl !

it
4;llllllll.l.lllll.l"lllll.lll.lllllllllll.."lllllll.llllC,ltil%tpEalrttutli,oniblineli.nohtftt,virilihe‘ele:etaxismitirnioantnolliriwydiiiiiir.nrsj'atarn.ryg'yferatitin°rtitilsete7oo•,eliyoniabitntwii
en
the
iatt 9riaC:6ooititle.k returnedt tietiellmalifitl:t:l
sloe aim
lift:
is_:,
ewlalsotfik:e.4,l
were note
after i: 1
1
r5t71214'21,11',001114.11. ;Waernwl i
irnufg bPt:S'anerr'erlon:•re 7-1, -trlsait.A.thse ai this
hgPle.titTheets:l4l:l4: :
ul lilt-Mall Dopartmeas was mint, ere,*
ras in the year 1796. There was a casp,' ..
gratuities fur length of services, a ;mit
pdsadi3rlitid,:lifilewlo::::.
;gersliirceorrtigirbeeattl:2fttire4i;sitffi‘ebte.e:ta..yThwitoniaswisihieluir.ni
owilanaaakdhloikrit
4:5
of 73,000/. a year--(ifear, hi•oe, hen)._
le csehraiorgets'dattluelbslieorn tolfsetltikiteajliloonfse6. '4IIIA
mei* lite;
!rilloirtfilsris:. ailslgi:ia,)nntse.d expressly u
e under
attatti el
edt 1 stvoi
isolusheseetiotain:;l:loyali
ris
oil: =::::::::ari
...
IttiCalis otrnanace:
from the year 1796 till 1812, when it mei&
oix/me.litin.la:eisfet,taltistiehmateirontilteni3e:rigltessiolLooolvantikratte.erd.,aitto,2lbstaini.ritileiNtastmes.ilnlniienspo,pa, _ k
proviaione! In the year 1796 the Private et.'
of the Master of the Ordnance, who peerani,4. ,
ices fur the public, and was merely engiow ik
....s affairs of the Master-general, received a se
amit. a year. The salary of this Pile's/BSe-
had been increased to 2,690/. a year, aid the
intilittee of that Idolise made a great merit of re-
it from 2,0001. to 1,5001. a year. '1 he salaw of
die Secretary of the Master-general of the 00.
sail been increased fonr-fohl. The office of L
Secretary having been declared useless, be,
ttee of that House bad been abolished, but did
use suppose that the salary of 34101. a vest lir
re saved to the ronntry ? Not there ftviitiet
vo t•lerks in the Office awl 3%1. a year was IC-
li sided between them.--:(1 leer, bear, and laughter' •
one profuse and profligate expentlitnre took plies
'y other branch of this department. The Soo-
' at Dover had received a salary of Wk., sag hail
,;.rest upon a pension of 3391. a year. The Wu.
mean opposite (Mr. Ward) bad not desist
mount of the salary, but he, (Mr. Hume)
sorry to hear him contradict the statemeet
le • Storekeeper having retired, because le
have known that a person Pained Lamp
Freeman of Queenburough, was appoiatedta
%thins. The Fakery of the Storekeeper at Dotes,
k year 179ki, when 1w hal much more dutyte
rut than at the present time, was only UCLA
been progressively increased till it was sow •
a year. The lion. Measlier went on to shew
the amount of expenditure had increased is
awe proportion iu the Colonial lhparlawsk,
comparison of items in the year 17%, aad at
treseot time, at Maka, Gihraltar, Itarhathe,
the Cape of flood Hope. There was a charge •
)00/. a year for awe establishment fur the aIC
-tare of gunpuweea at Feverrhatu, where there
not a single barrel of gunpowder. In point M
the milk at Feveraliam bad been let. la 1106.
lit
e period when there was much boast of enema!,
slier those mills wese let, a new clerk of the use
'Kenzie was oppointel—(liear.)--Illore than
plain Hely was appointed an inspector of .
Icr, althostels there wee no gunpowder to insert
mg's). If the establishment at Faversham sit it
lil of, the country would not only save MK a i
, but it could dispose of the houses—fur there, •
as at Sheerness, the various clerk; have 'moven*
they reside there, but they rent Thesis out to OW,
ieularly at Sheerness, the clerks themselves mar
neenborongh.—(Hear!)—Freks et Sheerness% as le
nt, who hid only two roours, lets theta out to a
ier of couvicts, and resides himself at ge...eksboreeo•
as to be observed, that the Ordnance Clerks tow
red to vote at elections, it would,be for the Hemet.
ider upon what groutele those persons were the
died, when persons holding similar situations is Or
toms soul Stamps were incapacitated.--(lleac, hest. •-,
• !)--There wryer three vessels employed Ist the Orli. •
re department at Sheerness'. Two of the hasten
e Jurats of Queenhurouels :—(a lattglr)--titere so T.
oat mote than one man on board of them is Mod i
pe, as they scarcely ever wade a trip hut in ramie; I
,d, the property of the public, to places whereit MI •
right to Ike seat. Beside., there were the Asks/ ,
tailors, kept tip at a considerable expense, and tesirb ! .
er could be wanting, unless on pressiug eastern!.
is powder Lep'. un board usust be deteriorated. lots
a proof of the sacrifice that was made in that 6
intent to election purposes, the sixty-six persons"'
ring wages on hoard that craft were all Freerroad
resslvorou;4ls.—(Near, bear !)—lie ',lust
ispositioa of the ptatlO: money was eorruptioa is its
,ariest smese.—ln the Ifork-voids, if a poor Isle".
k two brass nails he became liable to tramline
Min I
o, but be could prove the fact that Storekeepers
e them away with, - impunity it imate-titli.—(Hrssr
kr !)—At Waltham Abbey there was for the ret abide
‘ity that resin
nt 1,113/. for repairs, 7,009/. although not a dloe i
id barrels of gunpowder were mamtfactorrd Or- ' ,
iere was another item of 45,0991. fur gunners—bee
tali it 1.
i SIP i
i'iyouatesrneA-'bbis;Tysetdheirtewwaiissisiortsoillil,re tkastautkinleone,rs. a
.._
int, who kept a grocer's shop nine miles offe.:
out wich.1.990/. was paid to clerks, a stun that ex
Isihektemrsomannt
jpaLaibkloitiorearsl.l tilniethieantelivesitasteesintheelefired..dawam_."
e items me the toesoont of 35,0(10/. for tekint see' •
tieht
old stores. That money, he wrelerstret.
toiled amongst persons specially sent from
soars to the out depots, although each of theeellor
own local establishment which could
c dnlv• lie breosed to call the attention el ,
onottrable Member connected with the
he %oil".
dr. Ward) to one observation. Alla,
_, ak
low, prevented the returns of the artillery ans.::
:erpisloottsef aritaitpt:raaituel
rectgigiiiiiitri.:tr: foromthebe,iallawasiallonosar;
se regiments of the line is the Army Esties:
ulnite:'
se details.
the
. House
ite,,a gitorea‘to,fiteccitliiitn) i
,•
tol unl
such
t a
soffl.ailiTs
satead of the retorts mow made in the lump.
Nil
:,foe,r)treeilvie el a, thewh I
cChi vciolstEtsitiaelicloisnhontireynt7,o7ftesFlo.erleveleeira.r::* 1
ad been reduced by the present Ohs . .4, •
re eta Weir
59 to 130, but he considered they " 4. . 4
serous. With a helfpay amounting to 500,•' •
-.
huu mitgainity
iytounontg
oonffileyeresxia,:snosiiriveu:
btoutbitea7l...6l;l_isir.
swig men themselves, to keep that eetablt non'—
iiiognhs,
inpatrhtiecilealarrlytowbber;eratnhteeriel. weci en
tdohet
cliharti Yr:.
op
,I
he heads of 46 Extraordinaries" there ea
_0412, 1
ixplanatiees Mt three words, via. Itepalreseurfelt k i
•
------e•ooewsmsmMIMIIIIIIPGIIAII