The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-05-17 00:00:00

Ti i E STATEsMA N.

*his nuuther should he coasolidatel into twa com-
panies, a :aids would rase s:itff. r. v..:ar. 'I hese he
granted were petty details. hat u, on the wltole he I
could propose an aerne-t 1.: 't of too+ details to Me!
amount of of. MOH: :, ...• tr, aYI: :n nut to he despised in I
I be present state of the iinapires. lie muck a few r••-
;masks stens souse irregtearities that existed in the!
mtperatinuatioi allowances, several of which he ton-.
ta tided were immaturely given. Among the rest
hr mentioned an accountant, who, after eight yearej
service (though the statute required ten rears), retired I
tiptoe an allowance of 456/. a year, while many line-,
ral officers. who had dev tell the greater part of their
lives to the public service, retired upon less than a
third of that sum. The Hon. Meatber then went
through the Medical Department, in which he pro-
posed a few redactions, and contended that as inquiry
was necessary into the supertutso. tion establishment,
if far no other reason than that of ascertaining why 1
some men received such large allowances as they did i
though the aid of secret influence, and others received
such small pensions, who had no other friends to in-
terfere for them than the wounds which they had re-
ceived in the service of their country.—(licor, hear!)
—tie contended, that in the Barrack F:stablishment
great savings mi zlst be effected; for he was 'prepared to
show, that in !bat ale;fartment large %tens were most
ust lessly squandered. He believed it was in vain to
re soutnend any system of erne/may to the present Mi-
nisters, who seemed dete mined to keep within their
grasp every kind of power which could be upheld by
extravagant expem!iture, and nothing but the vote of.
that Clouse could make them alter their system. 'I hey
had constantly endeavoured to throw ridicule on every
man who made any proposition that had the good of
the public for its object ; and, on all occasions, to
throw dust in the eyes of tip.: House and of the puldie
The lion. Member concluded with 'nitrite:, that a Se-
lect Conintittee be appointed to examine into the whole
of the military expendituce of th• ruuntry, and to re-
port their opinion thereon to the !louse.
Mr. LONG felt it necessary ef correct some mis-
statements which the Hun. tit ntlenme had fallen into
respecting military accounts. With regard to his all-
t serti• n, that the Paymaster-general was not a public
iaceeutstant, she very contrary was the fact.
Lord PALMERSTON a:tit!, he would not, by any
long statement, anticipate the discussi m u liirh w:.*
'to take place the following day on the army estifluttes.
I He should not answer the attack made by the Hon.
'• Gentleman on the Finance Committys, from whose
I labours, he asserted, that no public benefit had arisen.
IHe assured the House that he had tie ver it en any r t
lof men exert more industry, or show a greater desiae
!to promote the benefit of the public,than the Uentiethru
who composed those Committee,. With respect to the I
1 increase that had taken place in the army during the
paseat, he would say,that that man must be grossly ig-
norant of the internal state of the country who supposed
ithat the events which took place dosing the last twelve
! taunt hs did not render such an loarease ne-ossary. 'I heft
might we doubt be a pecuniary saving by adopting a
I kind of urganieeigueren shimmy ditterent from eige-peoo
sent: but that advantage would be more than coauter- f
i balanced by the deficiency which would immediteely
I take place in oar military force. With respect to the
I proposal to disband all the dimpounted cav4lry melt,'
that could not be done without impairing the efficiency
of our force ; for it was always necessary to have a
1 greater number of men than of horses. Ou the cavalry
was principally imposed the duty of guarding the me-
tropulis, and it was always necessary to have an ;Atli- I
I tional number of men attarhed to them. The lion. l
Gentleman coppiplaierd of the number of cavalry kept
ion the coasts; but he ought to recollect that they
I were engaged in the necessary duty of checking con-
trabanti trade, and that souse part of the force must
have time to rest, while others were engaged in this
arduous service. He had also objected to the waggon
' train ; but if that establishment oid not exist, the duty
must be done by the cavalry or by farmers' horses; in
either of which cases great inconvenience would be pro-
duced. As to what the Hon. Ueutleman said about
the expenses of the War-office, the arrangement 'pro-
posed by the Hon. Gentleman for diminishing the ex-
pewee, would ultimately cost more than the present
expense amounted to. The Noble Lord then pro-
ceeded to justify the mode in which the business of the
Paymaster's department, and that of agents, was car-
-1 ried on; and, with regard to the Commissariat de-
partment, maintained that no arrangement could be
more economical or beneficial than the present n ode of
supplying the army with provisions. He next took no-
tice of the great convenience which arose from the
establishment of the Lithographic press, as well
as the saving of time and expense to the War-office
He also defended the establishment of the Military-
college, In which a considerable saving took place
last year. There were about two hundred vacant
commissions every year. About sixty or seventy ca-
dets were appointed to commissions. The Hen, Geo-
tleman was in an error respecting the attendance of
professors in the college ; for by the new arrangements, ,
they were to attend six or eight hours a day. He could'
assure the Honourable Uentleman, that the army lied
derived great advantage from the young men sent to It
from the college. It was of the utmost consequence
that officers should be well instructed in military disci-
pline on entering the army; for an army could meet. be
good unless the officers were skilled in the theury and
prude* of their profession. Young men could not be
dseated so well in private academies as in this coilege:
aid without the college, young men iutended for the
tlndlitary profession would be obliged to go to the
academies of France and Bermanr
which every gentleman who heard
prove of ; for they must all wish '
with British education, feelings
principle that a college was ,
for the education of those Roman
OM who were to instruct the peasants
end to prevent them from going for
esuntries, where they might imbil
from what should be their own
habits. As to the barrack department,
Beadsman's observations had no founds,
aid he had laid no ground for which
to great the inquiry moved for
deeply lamented the troubles In wl
involved, we should remember
were the price which we agreed
and independence of the cusatry.

Mr. CALCRAFTsaid, that fun., the manner in which
the motion was treated by 'he Lord, it w ouild have
been concluded that the thin. Illtir.•r was seching to do
1.1)111..!ling Web was exceedingly injw.ions or dis-
grat ef to the (iovernment. Tile .':ohle Lord hail ad-1
%%cwt. I very little in contOt.etion of the leasoning of his
Flom The Noble Lord spoke but bt.ce a year,
and o hen he did speak, it was to lo- admitted that he
a very good sprech.—(llcar, teutii the Ministerial'
benehes.)—The Noble Lord, lion ever, proved the best
paid orator of the day, for be reeeiied several thousands I
of bounds for merely making one sloped' in the year. If,
after the sten:news made ler his lion. Friend, and in the I
absence of any fact or reasoning to weaken the efficacy
of those statements, the lien-e wire to refuse to the pro-
pie an inquiry into the pussiltil:t v i.t retrenchment, such
a tonne would, he was sure, tend to the ile....ruction of
all rnalidence in the disposition of Parliament to lessen
the hardens of the country.
Sir N. PARNELL expressed his con% iction that suffi-
cient pourds had let-en sta:eil by tio• lion. Member for
demanding a Committee of Inquiry. The Hen. Baronet
contended, that there were serious instances Of estrava-
want increase of stipends, to which the attention of a
Z'oninsittee of Inquiry might he very piofitahly pointed.
In the civil department of the war establishatent, the
salaries, which atnotinted in 1796 to t,4111. were now, in
the fifth year of peace, smelled to 7,121/. In like
manner, the salaries in the Secretary of IV ar's office had
experienced a large increase. Its Stott, there were la-
rious items of expe.:tii'llre so i• at ray z:z all 11170 nil what
they here during a 114 I 101 l of a nr, that it was 1110110140.1 r
tor the llouse to do its clu'y without instituting an im-
mediate irtquiry. lie entertained no doubt, that by a'
lalioriotot and minute investigation, a great reduction
could be effected in the military estahlishment.

Colonel DAVIS, in reply, *said, that however the
speech of the Noble Lord might be cousidered by him-
self or his friends about him as brilliant and fat etious,
lie (Colonel Davis) was convinced that the public %%mild
t•ntertain a very different judgment upon it. The Hon.
I ientleman, after noticing •or two inisront•eptions of
his meaning, which had been taken up and observed
upon by the Noble Lord, concluded by animadverting
upon what lie considered the extravagant anon i:IICC3 by
way of superannuities.
Colonel 6RANT rose, and "Question" being loudly
called, lit• sat down.—(Several voices cried out, " new
Mt•taber,") alien the Hun. Gentleman again rose and
entreated the attention of the Douse for a short time to
one or two observations which, as a military man, he
thought it right to interpose. Ile &prevailsd the notion
that any benefit could be derived to the country from
ary redaction of the cavalry regiments. A.good cavalry
Mall was not easily made up, and !wore, in rase of any
sadden requisition, if the touistry haul been left unpro.
sided wish suilicient regiments of cavalry, it would be
impossible to bring forward any proportion of that de-
scription of troops. The Doff. Itentlentan who moved
the question animadverted upon the practice of keeping
up forage carts upon their preseht footing. Ile (Col.
Grata) would undertake to say, that these :wides were
of the first Armitage to the troops. At the beginning
of the late war, these carts were lett to be drawn by such
horses only as could he spared from the regiments, so
that, from the bad condition of the animals, the difficulty
of driving them produced the utmost injury to the ser-
vice, for it often happened, that when the carts were in
requisition aninqifist the troops, they were to be found
at Coe rear of the baggage. In the itisastrons retreat of
our army under the command of Sir John Moore in
b :skit was well known that the greatest deficiency
Isad aye **coaster MN ih4t of foratre-carta.—
(Hear hear !)t—The lion. :tleinher pruposell fife !Tilt/Mrn.
of dm Staff Corps, admitting, at the same time, that the
country was much indebted to them. With a sense of
their merits before him, it -.vas rather strange that the
lion. Gentleman should se-k to discharge the obligations
ender which they placed the country, by deprii lug them
of thosompensation which they now enjoyed.
Mkt, ELLICE regarded with great dissatisfaction the
extraordinary and itnheard-of extent of military force
which we kept up in a period of peace, and especially
that portion of them disposed of amongst Colonies from
which we received nothing in compensation.
Colonel DA VIS, in explanation, stated, that hisobser-
rations respecting the forage carts applied exclusively
to troops employed in England, and in a tittle of peace.
The gallery was then cleared for a di% ision, when the

For the motion 45. Against it 125.—Maj. against it M.
Lard CHARLES MANNERS presented a petition
from the inhabitants of Wisboach, Isle of Ely, complain-
lag of the distress which the agriculturists of that part
of the country were suffering, and praying fur souse mea-
sure of relief.
Lord MILTON could not help remarking, that this
petition was a strong evidence that distress was not con-
fined to one class of persons in the country. Here was
a complaint of the distressed state of agriculture from a
cousiderable market town, the.inhabitants of which
were not engaged in any agricultural pursuit.
The petiticia was read, and laid on the table.
Lord ALTHORPE moved fur an account of Auction
Duties as agricultural produce for • specific period.—
Orsiered.—Adjourned at a quarter past tea o'clock.