The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-05-06 00:00:00

sTATestyiAN

stated that a letter had been 'lauded to him by the clerk,
intimating that one of the witnesses 109 bad beep sum-
moned in Ireland, was unable to attend for the want of
pecuniary means. In this case the ends of justice might
be defeated unless something was done to obtain the at-
temlanceof the party. It was true that the Serjeant at
Arms might take him into custody, and thus ensure his
attendance, but lie trusted that before that time to-morrow
some more easy means would be decided upon by the
House, otherwise he should feel it his duty to move that
the individual be taken into custody.
The House then Went into the Committee, and
Sir It. HERON, baring taken the Clair, observed
that it would promote the regulation in the proceedings
of the Committee, if any lientlem in who wished to
question the witness, would a•idress the Chair in the first
instance, and remain on his legs till he had asked all the
questions I. intended to propose.
Mr. BANKES said lust this mode was contrary to
Parliamentary usage.
The CHAIRMAN desired to know in what respect.

Mr. BANKES ssid it was perfecoly contrary io par-
liamentary usage, for a Member to remain un his legs
while a witness was giving his answers.
Benjamin Ricky, tie first witness examined, was then
ordered to the bar, and by the direction of the CHAIR-
MAN handed in some documents, which he had brought
in with him.

.- -.
They were read by the Clerk, and comprised returns
of the panels of the (hand Jury of Dublin, with the
number of Corporatore in them, with the several de-
tails, from Fea:usey, 1819, to the 24th Feb. 1823.
Colonel BARRY, from under the gallery, now put
some questions to the witness, not one word of which
or the answers, were we able to collect. The first ques-
tion we could catch, and Oa% imperfectly, was, the fol-
lowing, in allusion to the trials in Dublin :
Were the bills returned by the Grand Jury on the se-
cond day the same as on the lira?—Not exactly.
What difference was there in them?—There was an
error in the indictment, which I pointed out.
Who altered it P—The Crows Solicitor.
Do you conceive it right in a Crown Solicitor?—(Or-
der, order.)
Have you ever known bills of indictment altered by
a Crown Solicitor, while under the cousideration of a
Grand Jury ?-1 have.
At whose suggestion was the alteration made in the
form of the indictment ?—1 think it was made at my
own suggestion, having discovered some errors in the
course of the evening.
What were those errors?—The indictments stated,
that the acts charged in it were cominitied in the 4th
of the present king, whereas they really took place in the
third.
Who made the alte:ation ?—The crown Solicitor, at
my suggestion.
Was the alteration made with leave of the Court?—lt
was not; the Crown Solicitor did not think it necessary
to make it in open Court.
In case an indictment so altered were found by the
Grand Jury, and the party convicted on it, could the
Court proceed to judgment ?—I think it could. The al-
teration was a m -re matter of form. _ . .

Was it after the indictment came from the Grand Jury
that the alteration was made ?—No ; it was wade after
the examination of two witnesses, while the business of
the Grand Jury was still in progress.
By Sir J. SIEWART.—What was the sensation in
Dolma on the occasion of the riot and coustnittal of the
parties?—Were there not addresses to the Lord Lieute-
nant; and, among the rest, was not there one by the
Mayor and Guild of Merchants of Dublin ?
The witness being ordered to withdraw,

Mr. 001.3.11URR objected to this sort of examina-
tion. From the best attention that he could give to
the questions put to the witness by his Right Honour-
able Friend, he could not see how they could be refer-
able to the conduct of the Sheriff of Dublin. if his Rt.
Hon. Friend persist •d in that course, the House ought
to be informed in what manner he proposed to connect
those questions with the subject immediately before the
Douse.
After a few words (qoi.e inaudible) from Sir .1.
ST E WA KT,
The CHAIRMAN said it was impossible, in that
stage 'of the proceeding;, to draw any line between the
questions proposed and the conduct of the Sheriff.—
He could not say what reference the answers required
might afterwards have to the msio object; but, for his
part, be wished to regulate his conduct by the opinion of
the Committee.

Mr. W. IVILLIAMS said that every Member had a
right to ask whatever question he pleased, but still bay-
ing reference to the conduct of the Sheriff.
Colonel BARRY said be had not asked any question
that did not bear on the conduct of the Sheriff ; but he
was of opinion that some latitude of examination might
be granted, as the Hon. Member for Winchilsea, whom
be did not then see in his place, said he wished to take
a most extensive range.
Mr. UItATTAN said be was anxious for the fullest
inquiry ; but he could not see how that object could be
attained by going into an inquiry about the Address
voted to the Lord Lieutenant by the (land of Mer-
chants.
Mr. W. WYNN said it would be for the general con-
venience to confine themselves to the conduct of the
Sheriff.
Sir J. MACINTOSH said they would, by, confining
themselves too strictly to the conduct of the Sheriff, be
only evading the proposed inquiry. He thought that
what was done by former Juries mtght be very conve-
nient to be known to explain the conduct of the Sheriff
in the present instance. Questions, therefore, referring
to that might be perfectly right, but any questions as to
the impression made on the people of Dublin were too
irrelevant and unnecessary. Hon. Members could not
prescribe too narrow limits to the inquiry, nor impose
restrictions on themselves.
The witness being again called in, was asked by Sir J.
STEWART whether he recollected the names of any of
those who signed • requisition to the Lord Mayor for the
purpose of addressing the Lord Lieutenant?—[All we heard
of the answer was, that the witness himself 'load such a re-
quisition.]
By Mr. NOLAN.—Is it considered a favour to be pat on
the Jury in Dublin!—lt is rather a favour to be left off.
Did witness remember any observations made in the
Court on the smallness of the panel returned for the trial of
so many traverser' ?—Yes, be did recollect the Court hav-
ing made some observations on the smallness of the number
on the panel.
Could the witness tell any reason for having only fifty on
that panel?—None.
Can any names be added to the panel after the Sheriff has
returned the panel into Court?-1 have known occasions in
which the panel was enlarged.
Mr. BROWNLOW asked the witness whether twelve or
sixteen names on the panel ofJanuary, ISYS, were not on
the panel of the preceding October, and mentioned some of
town 2—Tile witness expressed his belief, that the names
mentioned were on both panels, hilt he had not such know-
medge as to enable him to answer as to the rest.
Does witness know Mr. Moore, a gentleman whose name
was at the panel?—So far as seeing him in the Grand Jury
room I know his person, but 1 have no acquaintance or con.
no:tion vrith him.
Have yon not seen bins about this House, and did you not
shake hauls with hint !—On my way to this House, several
Irishmen collected about me and shook hands with Inc.
though I do not know much about some of thow.—(A
laugh.)
Do you know that Mr. Moon was brother-in-law to the
Provost of College ?—L did not.
By Air N. COLTHURST.—Do you know that any of the
MreCtor4 of the Bank 9f Ireland were challenged by the
I Crown?—l do not.

• ' 1

it

By Mr. WILLIAMS.--Iroa stated that you never had
any Lcquall twice with Mr. Moore, though you might hare
shaken hands with him. Might you not, however, seeing
him in Loneon, wish him joy of being in England?—(The
answer to this was lost in a general laugh.)
Were you present when the result of the ex-oleio infor-
mation was made known io Court by the withdrawing of a
Juror T— No.

Were you present when ulterior proceedings were threat-
ened 2—No.

Ott the motion of Mr. JOHN WILLIAMS, Mr. Term*
O'Reilly was ordered to he called In.
One of the officers of the House soon announced that
TerenceO'Reilly was not to be found(which excited a laugh.)
Mr. Lucius Dillon M`Namara was then ordered to be call-
ed in; but Mr. Terence O'Reilly appeared (which caused
arotner laugh).
By Mr. JOHN WILLIAMS.—What is your name, Sir
Terence O'Reilly, Sir.
What are you by profession I—An attorney;
How long are you in that profession I—Aboii six or
eight years; since about 1509.—(1 laugh.) Witness ex-
plained, but we could not hear him.
Were you in the Court, or in the neighbourhocof, whari
the bill sent up to the Grand Jury was thrown out I-1 was
alternately in the Court and in the neighbourhood.
Did witness see Mr. Sheriff Thorpe during that time /
Frequently.
Did you hear any one say that the bills were Ignored by
the Grand Jury ?-1
fly whom was that announced, and when I—Ry Mr. She-
riff Thorpe, in the office of Messrs. Allen and Green, the
town clerks.
Was witness in that office at that tim►?—l was.
Were any others present?—Yes. there were several, and
among them was a gentleman named Ward. and—
The CHAIRMAN, at the suggestion of Mr. J. Williams,
here cautioned the witness not to proceed further with his
answer than the question required.
Was the Sheriff in that office ? —Yes. he was.
Did you hear him make any ob ions to Mr. Wert,?
—Yes, he cline into the office, and said, " No bills urn
found; I have• managed the thing ; my business is now
done here, and I will go and coinutunicate the result."
How w•sa the Sheriff &emit when he came. into the
office i—He was dressed with his corked hat and sword.
He took those olf in the office, and went away.
Did you hear him say any thing else?—No.
Did you know any body else present there, except Mr.
Ward ?—Yes, Mr. 111•Namara, an attorney, was present.
By Colonel BARRY.—IIow many persons were in the
room ?—1 could not correctly say; it wa• a place of
public resort, and people were going in and out.
How manly that you kn►w ?—I mentioned four.
Were there any of the Clerks of the Office present ?
I am not certain.

Did Sheriff Thorpe speak in a land tone of voice?—
Yes, in a loud and exulting (or insulting) manner.
As loud as you speak ? —No, not quite so loud.
So loud that any person in the room could hear ?—No,
I do not think they could all hear.
1 want to come at this (art—Were there other person•
in the room whom you knew?-1 do cot recollect any
other person being there that I knew?
Do you know Mr. Ward ?—Yes.
Do•s he know you ?—Yes.
I-lad you any con.-ersation.with Mr. Ward as to the
probable finding of the Jury ?—I do not recollect thot 1
had.
Did Mr. Ward go out of the room with Sheriff
Thorpe P—No.
Diet you make any communication to Mr. Ward of whtit
Mr. Sheriff Thorpe said ?—I do nut recollect that I did.
Or to any other person ?-1 do not recollect hating
done so. • _

When did yon first mention this conver•ation of Mr.
Sheriff Thorpe, and to whom ?—1 cannot bring to mind.
Can you recollect when you mentioned any thing
about it?—To the best of my tecolection, not until
was applied to as to giving evidence on that fact, which
I declined, not being competent to do so.
Who applied to you to give evidence on that fact?—
Mr. Costello, as attorney.
Can you recollect the first person to whom you tree.
tioned what Mr. Sheriff Thorpe said?—To young Mr.
Plunkett.
When ?—Answer not heard.

Then from the time you !ward the conversation, until
coo saw young Mr. Flunkett, you were silent on the sub-
ject ?—I don't :.ay I was perfectly silent upon it, list
said that I did not remember auy particular occasion
when I mentioned it.
Or to any particular person ?—To no particular person,
until Monday last.
Did you mention it to any Member of this House'—
Answer not heard.
Do you know any Member of this House P—l am known
to some of them. _

Can you distinguish them—point them out?—(No,
no.)
Yon are quite clear that you did not mention the von-
versation to Mr. Ward, after Mr. Sheriff Thorpe left the
room ?—I am.
Here the witness was examined as to a conversation
with a Mr. Poole, one of the tirsni Jurymen, the particu-
lars of which we coal not collect.
By Mr. WILLIAMS.—I wish the witness to recollect
where he was when be was told that the bills were ig-
nored ?—ln the same office.
Did you quit the office from the time of hearing Mr.
Sheriff Thorpe's declaration, and your hearing that the
bills were ignored?-1 did nut.
What interval elapsed between the conversation and
the hearing of the bills being ignored?—From three
quarters of an hour to an hour.
By Mr. BKOWNLOW.—We understood the witness,
in reply to some questions, to say that he was not an
unwilling witness, but that he had not volunteered to
give evidence.
When did you leave Dublin?—On Monday last.
When did you arrive in town ?—On Friday last.
IVitere have you been ?—.lt an hotel.
What hotel?-1 don't recollect the name.—(A laugh.)
Why don't you recollect the name of the hotel where
you go to bed ?—Because I never slept there since I came
—(A laugh.)
I fvou were told the name would you recollect it. Is it
the galopian ?—Yes it is.
Have you been talking to any person relative to the
evidence you were to give ?—I have.
To whom ?—I don't know the person's time.
Would you recollect the person's name if you heard it ?
—Yes.
Was it Mr. Blake?—Yes, that is the gentleman's
name.

Were you pith him this day ?—I was.
What to tion bad you?—About the evidence I
was to give this night.
Did he ask you any question —No.
The witness waa examined by Mr. BROUGHAM, Mr.
SCARLETT, Mr. DENMAN, and Mr. ELLIS; bat so
additional evidence was elicited.
The witness was ordered to retrain in attendance.
Mr. Dillon Marnamara was called in.
What is your name?—Dillon M acnaniara.
By Mr. SCARLETT. —What is your profession
aqua Attorney and a Solicitor.
Are you acquainted with Mr. Sheriff Thorpe.'—No,
but I have seen him.
Were you in the Court when the bills were ignortal?—
yes.
Did you see on that occasion Mr. Sheriff Thorpe?—
! dice.
Where ?—1 saw him in Court at various times in the
course of the day.
The witness stated in reply to several. quAstionr,
that many persons were going in and out of the
°dice during the day, who.e names he could not It
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Do you recollect Mr. Shatiff Thorpe eonsing•intei that
ream no.
Dl4 be enter into any cooversation?—He did.
What did he say ?—Tbst there were no bills hued, or
to that effect. •
Did you hear the precise words ?—They were to the
• effect I mentioned.
To whom did he address himself?—To some friends
in the room; to Mr. Ward, I believe.
You believe?—Yee.
Did you hear a question pot to him ?—I understood a
gentleman to avk him if the hills bad come doors. He
said no, 'you may make your mind perfectly easy on that
*mutt.
Did he add any thing more ?—(Answer net heard.)
Did Sheriff Thorpe remain iu tide office?-IVu, be went
&Way immediately.
Do you reeollem t how be was dressed ?—I did not make
any remark at the time.
Was there any communication lietween'you or say other
person respecting what yea beard?—(We understood the
*item to say that there was a general conversation in
' the office on the subject.)
Was there any list of the Grand Jury in the office?—
There was.
-Do you recollect the names of those Jurors who were
mentioned as not likely to find the bills ?—Many persons
were present at the time, who said that several of the
Jury were not likely to hod the bills.
Did they epelk of the number ?—Some of them said
there were.l7 also would not find the bills.
By Cul. DARKY.--1 wish to know it von ran specify
any person in time office at the time that Sheriff Thorpe
spice ? I cannot recollect.
How many were in the room at •the time?-1 cannot
aseerta; u.
There were some of the Clerks; where were they 'land-
ing ?—Withio the counter.
Where did you stand?—l was outside the counter.
How did you ascertain the bills were ignored?—lt was
publicly known.
Were you in the Court when the Omani Jury came is
with the hills?-1 was.
How long after Mr. Sheriff Thorpe's declaration ?---An
boor or better. •
When did you leave Dublin ?-0n Friday morning.
Did you travel wits Mr. O'Reilly ? —I did.
What conversatiou took place:—lle asked the particu-
lars of wy evidence.
Did lie ask you a number of questions ?—go, he ra-
ther left us to I eeUtlimt our own stories.
Where are you living P—At Nu. 5, Northumberland-
street,
liy Mr. 13110WNLOW.—Are yen an Orangeman?—
No.
Do you belong to any Association in Ireland?-1 have
been a Freemason for 7 or ti years.
Do you know a Mr. Itlahstield ?—Yes.
Mr. tsROWS LOW put the fuhowing questions to the
witness : Do you ever recollect h.tviog a conversation
wi h Mr. Mansfield, in order that he sight pack e Jury tor
a elicit of yours?
r.tr. H. MARTIN rose to order, and the witness was or-
dered to withdraw. The ilion.Member expressed his opinion
that the }louse wee sum warranted in putting a questiou,
Lie answer to which might criudnate the wituesa.
A conversation miscued, and it. was dec.ded that the Howse
could not put such a questioo—Lunt if the witness should re-
use to answer it, though erituinatiog himself by the answer,
it would be a consideration for tree- House whether they
should compel one, they having the power to do so.
'rite question was repeated to the witness, and be replied
that some years ago, when he was a young man, it occurred
to hint to have a about iu the on:y criminal case that ever he
was connected with, who desired him to endeavour to get
sumo friends of his upon the Jury, sod he woit4 mottoe-
s-ate the sheriff. He wished to hide nething that was pact,
and he scituowledged that he made this application to Mr. ,
Mansfield. As far as he count recollect Mr. Maasfield's
answer, it was, that it was out of his power, the case being
lu-toe Mods of the Cioun Ulcers; that it was out of ins I
Power, even if he had wished to do i!. He did not get the
bribe, because he did hat do whet was wanted. The Crown
Solicitor then was Mr. Kalliebl; believes Mr. Townsend
was one of the Council for the prosecution; does not recol-
lect whether the Attorney and Solicitor tieneeal were em-
ployed in the case; his client was transported. Under-
stood the answer of Mr. Mansfield to be, that he had not
Use power, if he had the inclination.
A MEMBER said, he wished to know lf,• when Sheriff
Thorpe came to the office and said the bids would be Ig.
moral, be added that he had managed cleverly?- He said
he bad managed well, or something to that effedt.
The witness was ordered to withdraw, and
Colonel LARRY rose to ask whether it was precisely fair
to rut words into the witness's mouth, when he had pre-
viously been examined upon a peeticelar pOist to walla
they related. . .
Mr. BROUGHAM contended that it was competent for '
any Member to put leading questions.
The witness was recalled, and his examination proceeded. I
Woes be saw Mr. Blake, did not say to him what words
passed in the office, because he could not recol ect this
precisely. Has no doubt that those worus were used upon
me occasion. Never had a word of con lion with Mr. ,
Beetle Thorpe in his lice.
Oa examination by Mr. BRIGHT,
Does not remember the exact words used by Mr. Maw
field.
Some other questions were put to the witness; but nei-
ther they nor use answers were audible, and he then with- •
thew.
On the motion of Mr. J. WILLIAMS, Peter Tomlinson
was called to the Bar sad examined.
Is a bootmalier at Blackruck ; was in Dublin during the
time of the trial of the rioters; knows Mr. Daniel Smith;
rearmed with hies two or three days before the trial; was
Minding outside of his own shop whoa Mr. Smith gave him
en order. A person came by, whom Mr. Smith addressed
thus:—" Good morning, Mr. Sheriff." He asked the She-
. riff about the approaching trials, and whether be had made
out a list of the Jury. He said he had not; but be was just
then going to the ollice about it. He said " they" (mean-
lug the Traverse:a) shah have as good a Petty as they hive
lead a Grand Jury." Witness should know the Sheriff
again, though he never saw him before, and had never seen
him since.
Mr. J. WILLIAMS desired him to look about him. He
esid—`• I do not see him here; but I have no doubt I
should know Abu again, for 1 eyed him particularly.—(A
laugh )
On examination by Mr. 0 OULBURN.—Has since been
to se.: the other Sheriff; and understands him to bas Mr.
Sheriff Cooper. Is certain be is not the Lientieutan who was
ado dby Mr. Smith.
By Mr. BROW NlAlW.—Heard of two Trials. The
rananetioll in question was just before the second. A Mr.
Peter-- (we did not hear the surname), was present.
meationed the circumstance on the sanin day to several
pollens.
By Sir EDWARD KNATCHRULL—Looked atten-
tively afterwards at the other Sheriff, arms is certain Ili was
lot Meese spoke's to by Mr. Smith ; went to Duniiu 10 con-
esomeee of this; Is now at 4d, Lung-acre ; emit to the So-
licitor-General of Ireland, sod afterwards to Mr. Bacon ;
the tatter toestioneu wtuiesa WI the subject, cud he auswei-
ed as he had tissue UJW.—The witness witudrew.
John Mac Contiell 4 ailed to and mousined—Resieles in
Dahlia; is a silk manufacturer; knows Mr. Sheriff
Thorpe; recollects seeing hint at Mr. Sihthorp's, in huh-
before the trials; it was on the Turday alter the
riot at the theatre ; the Sherd spoke t., W. Orations ; did
pottiest that converaation, but heard the Sherd my, " I
bate the Orange I'aoel in my pocket;" heard nothing
paniedu before this. As posing lelr. Sibthurp was
passing out witness asked him "when these untoita-
nate teller,s would be brought to tt ial," he insole no an-
swer: the Sheriff's remark was in a loud tone of voice.
W. Witham teas one of the tra eeee ers, and the Sheriff was
'Whim; be• was there when *Rheas tint entered the
tow liar. Silsthorp is a pointer and glazier; but is re
tetanal of Utahans ; he is a friend of Alt. Thorpe ; wit-
hin was aware of this at the time.

'THE

---
On examination by VolOtrel 'EAREIf,—The Sheriff'
le* the room at the same time- as the witness. Heard no
cobversation previous to the expression inuestion. Mr.
Garrett Wadden absented himself from Dubin; does not
hero-tithe cause of this. Witness deals in the wholesale
way ; no part of his stock belongs to Mr. Wadden. Was
on good terms with Witddett when this conversation took
place; is not note; has an objection to state the cause
of the quarrel ; never had any conversation with him
shout this. Was first called upon to give evidence by
Wadden.; was first examined about •this.by Mr.
(name inaudible) at his house ; Wadden went 'with me.
ukl not possibly he mistaken as to the expressions. There
were persons in the room who might not hear them. No
one war nearer to the' Sheriff than Graham. Witness
was the next nearest. He was about as far from witness
as witness is now from *the table. He did not speak
loudly. His tone was rather low. All the persons were
sitting at the time ; Witness also. There were cards
in the room; but the Sheriff was not playing. Did not
sup that night at the Shakespeare.
By a MEMBER —The expression was not directed to.
wards Graham. Witness understood the meaning of it.
Thought the Sheriff acted as a party friend. Was cer
tainly surprised at the expression.
$y Mr. GOUIBURN.—Can't say how long the party
bad assembled before the witness went there. The She-
riff used other remarkable expressions. One of them
was, •• I wish the devil had the Marquess Wellesley out
of this. ' He made use dottier expressions; bat witness
can't repeat them. First communicated the exprivions
on the following day to Wadden and WNelly.
By Mr. BRIGHT.—Dos not know whether these
facts were communicated to the Attorney-General of Ire-
land before the Trials.

By Mr. CRIPPS.—The expressions about Lord %Vel-
lesley were heard by alt the persons. They were ut-•
tered by the Sheriff just as he was leaving the room.—
No remark was matte la consequence by any person
present.
By Mr. BItOWNLO%V.—Graham is connected with
some Newspaper Office; did hot know that he was then
charged with smutting the Lord Lieutenant; heard
that afterwards.

By Mr. BKOUGHA3I.—About nine or ten persons al-
were prepent.
The witness then withdrew, and on the motion of Mr.
JOHN %VI 1.1.1 A MS,

Peter Tosalioson was re-called. He corrected a former
statement in his evidence.—He had, in tact, seen Mr. Smith
twice. Does not know whether he was on the Jury.
After a short conversation es to going on or not, it was
ordered that William Poole should be called in. After some
pause, the CHAIRMAN Informed the Committee. that he
understood Poole could not attend, he having been injured
by a fall from the stage coach on his way to London.
C3lonsl BARRY said he was given to understand that
Poole had been seen walking about the streets of London
yesterday.
Tar Serjeant was then examined at the Bar, and ulti-
mately directed to proceed to No. 0, Downiog-street the
present residence of Poole, and command his immediate
attendance.

Mr. GIOULBURN took the opportunity afforded bins by
the pause, to give notice, that he should, on Friday next,
bring the Irish Tithe question b: fore the House.
Mr. CALCRAFT was proceeding to speak about the
Leather Tax, when he was called to order • and it was re.
solved, at the last inee of Colonel HARRY, to call In and
examine Mr. Sheriff Cooper.
Mr. Sheriff Cooper was accordingly called in.
Mr. CALCRAFT said, that as the gallant Colonel had
suggested the calling in of the Sheriff, he would pruaably
Oa mine him.
Colonel BARRY said, the Sheriff had been summoned by
the liononrabie Barone., the Member for Westminster.
. Mr. CALM.% rr observed. that thief Moo. Baronet was
unfortunately absent from indisposition.
The examination of the Sheriff was then proceeded In by
an Hon. Member under the gallery, whose name we could
not learn. It was, as we colheed, to the following effect.
Witness is one of the Sheriffs of Dublin. Recollects
striking the Grand Jury relative to the present inquiry.
Took an active part in it. Did so at the request of Mr.
Sheriff Thorpe, lest some observations might be made up-
on him. Would not have interfered without Alr.Slie-
riff Thorpe's request. The curoin is for one Sheriftto
strike the Juries one Term, and the other for the follow-
ing Term ; and on this occasion it was Mr. Sheriff
Thorpe's tarn. The witness felt responsibility with
respect to individudt returned to serve on juries.
What is your situation in life ?—A coaentoaker.
• How long have you belonged to the Corporation of
Doblin?--Seventeen years.
Mid you offer any observation to the Under Sheriff
!iwitb respect to the names returned on the panel ?—1
did.
To how many and to whom ?—I cannot exactly name
the number.
To whom ?—A cry of " No, no!"
The witness then stated that the investigation of the
panel occupied an hour. From his general experience
of Grand Juries in Dublin, he considered the Grand Jury
in question respectable and competent to discharge the
duty of Jurors. He considered the persons respectable
and fit for the duty they had to discharge. Many of the
persons found in the panel had been commonly found
on other panels.
Examined by Col. BARRY.—Were the individuals
objected to by you, and struck off the panel objected to
on account of political conduct ?—No.
Did you feel in the investigation of the panel by
yourself and your brother officer, that you bad conscien-
tiously discharged your duty to the public as an officer
in the cause of justice ?—I did.
What passed between you and Sheriff Thorpe on the
subject of a person who applied to be on the Jury ?—t
thought, in, consequence of his application, that he was
not a person fit to be on the Jury.
Questioned by a MEMBER.—Have you seen Sheriff
Thorpe in company with the Lord Lieatenant of Ireland
since the striking of the panel ?—Yes.
More than once ? Yes.
Did his Excellency receive Sheriff Thorpe as a pub.
lic de:inquent—a public officer Who had packed a Jury?
—NO.

flow did the Lord Lieutenant receiVe
the tistial distinction paid to the Sheriffs and Lord
Mayor.

Co:onel BARRY.—WouId Sheriff Thorpe have packed
a Petty Jury ?—Certainly not. '
If vuu,w•ere told in company that Sheriff Thorpe said
he hail packed a Jury, would yon have believed ?—!
should not suppose him capable of doing so.
Yuu gave a public dinner in Dublin ?—,Yes.
Did you give the glorious memory?-1 did not. He
was nut acquainted with the political seutiments of the
persons %minnow& Ile was nut an Orangeman. He
believed Sheriff Thorpe was not au Orangeman.
Examined by Mr. OKA ITAN.—Was Sheriff Thorpe
the first to give the obnoxious toas/ ; namely,: the gto-
riotts immortal Alemory?-1 believe be gave that toast
The ollicer served the summonses.
Examined by another MEMBER.—You have ststal
that you objected, to two or three persons In the panel,
and that the obj-ction was not of a political nature;
was it not for the purpose 'of having the most respect-
able names ?—k was; my object was to have the Maud
Jun• panel fill d by the most respectable cltia..os of
you never made a question. of any man's political
principles?—No. It was the first time hu sad bdea the
office of Sheriff.
Examined by. Mr. PLUNKETT.--Whst is the ordi-
nary coarse of rewriting the Commission (Wand Jetty.
I. it done by the High Sheriff, or the Um kin the (Ace i
—I think nut by the Clerk. •

I

R

_
Anilour mem 1110111141*.:
of the Petty Ja7?--In ordinary tipp,OtehAdtgis brtieV
makes the return.
Does not the witness believe the returned ii'
the panel were um of strong pel=iag on
.the
partscolar question of dressing the states ?—Some were"
and some were cot.
There had been an election of Corporators in Deems-
ber ?—There was.
Was there not a strong agitation in the puble mind
on the election of those torporators ?—And had not the
dressing of the statue of King William been prevented
by the Lord Mayor ?—Yes.
Was there not a censure on the Lord Mayor for doing
so?—There was.

Were not the Corporator* selected during the months
of December. when the censure was pronounced?—lo
some Guilds there was elections.
In the Guild of Merchants was there not a strong
feeling?-1 believe there war.
Here Mr. YLUNKEIT produced a list, which was
handed to the Witness. He believed the list was given
to the Guild of Merchants for the purpose of returning
those names most popular.
The Witness reed the Bill. It was headed, "Good
men in bad times." King William was represewed
treading on the knave of club., chick was the Lord
Mayor. The witness found seven of the names described
good men in bad times, amontthe persons sworn in the
Jury of January. The names were : J. H. Moore, Davy,
Hicks, Adams, Lamprey. Graham, and Lodge.
Did you believe good men, i• bad times were per-
sons of strone political bias ?—1 cannot say they bad
strong bias.
Does the witness consider that the seven persons were
fit and impartial men to sit in aJury to try the question
on finding the bill of indictment ?-I.do.
You only looked to the panel to see they were fair re-
spestable citizens ?—That was ail. lie should not object to
any man of political bias unless he considered him a violent
man. He believed out of the 27 corporator. returned, some,
were desirous the statue should not be dressed. He could
not explain how the Grand Jury were chosen oat of the first
93 on the list, unless it was to avoid fines. The witness
framed the panel of t'.3 Petit Jury from the Grand Jury,
with few exceptions. The SA-Sheriff was not influenced
by a violent party-feeling. He did not consider him a man
of high party feeling. The whole panel consisted of 60,
and 30 were returned by the Sub-Sheriff ; the witness se-
lected men of character ; he could not say they were high
party men ; alteration was made in the grand panel ; man
were put from the bottom to the top of the panel, in souse-
quince of their respectability. The witness had heard of
i a man named Stakes, a clerk to Alderman Kieg ; he never.
Iheard the Sub-Sheriff had altered the names on the Petty
Jn-
ryettherequest of Stokes. Ile did not believe the Sub-
Sheriff was capable of doing so. The witness had heard
that a Mr. Poole had taken a part in preventing the dressing
of the statue: Never heard Sheriff Thorpe say he could not
put Poole on the panel, because, he was a conciliator.
Examined by Colonel BARRY.—The Jury were anxious
to attend under the fear of being fined 7—in the present state ,
of Dublin, it was bnpossible to find a Grand Jury who bed
not formed an opinion on the dressiog of the statue.
Examined by Mr. BKOUGhIAM.—The election of
Sheriff was promoted by the Amicable Society?—
He did nut know of any understanding on the part of
the Sheriff to be elected, and those alto were to re-
commend them. He had been in the.oftiee seven months.
The witness concurred with the Sub-Sheriff in the elec-
tion of a keeper of the Sheriff's prison. Ile bad not con-
curred in any other appointment. The officers were not I
chased with every Sub-Sheriff. He uid not knew of
any understanding between the Amicable Society and the
Sub-Sberitf, that he should keep certain persona in office.
The fees to the Sub-Sheriff amounted to 7001. a-year, for
which he accounted to tun High Sheriff. He had said he
wished to keep respectable persons on the Petty Jury.--
With respect to their political feeling. there was no can-
vassing. He only discussed the respectability of Grand
and Petty Jurors. The witness, at a dinner, bad declined
giving the obnoxious toast. In consequence of Chet re,
fugal, they beheved very rude to him.
Sir G. HILL examined the witness. He believed the
people of Dublin had formed their opinion on the Catho-
lic Claims. He did not consider any man favourable to
the Catholic Claims incompetent to sit on a Gracii
Jury.
Examined by Lord MILTON.—The witness admiiteff
that some names were struck off the panel and others
substituted. They did not come from a list which he bad
suggested.
Mr. R. MARTIN examined the witness.—He begged
to know whether the witness meant to say it would be is.
possible to find a Grand Jury in Dublin, who had
Dot formed an opinion on the subject, of dressing the
statue ? •
The question was considered irrelevant.
Examined by Mr. UOULBURN.—When he met Mr.
Sheriff Thorpe on the subject of the panel, he knew
;bat persons were to be tried for a riot in the Theatre.—
He knevem person named Cullum to he one of the person.
to be tried? He did not know that Mr. Moore, one of the
Joe y% was related•to Cullutn.
Examined by Mr. S. RICE.—The witness bad weed
on Term and Grand Juries. The Corporation of Dublin
g Ily served as Grand Juries. He served o• a Com-
mission Grand Jary three or four years ago. He wish-
ed to avoid serving on a Comini4sion Grand Jury. He
could net say how many of the Corporation of Dublin
lamed oa that Jury. He had heard there was an anxiety
WI serve on Commission Juries._

Examined by Mr. HUMO.—The witness baring said,
in consequence of a letter tram the Crown Office ha watt
to Sheriff Thorpe, and found he had drawn out a list of
the panel, ke (Mr. Hume) wished to know what had be,
comae of the letter.

Here it was understood that a copy of the letter was
in the house.

He wished to know the names of the Corporators wIN
applied to be excused from serving on the Jury.
The witness recollected Mr. Forster.

The %harm had stated that be did net consider the
seven.names he had read to be ♦iolent party men. He
wished to know whether be considered Sheriff Thorpe ty
violent party man, or a moderate party man. I should
consider him not a high earty man.
Did you know one %it:Hain Oat eater on the Jury ?
I did.
Do you consider him more a party man than Sheriff
Thorpe? I know but little of Sheriff Thorpe.
If Mr. Sheriff Thorpe had bee■ on the Jury, would
yen have considered him competent to try the-defend-
ants? If he bad been sworn I should have considered
him perf-etiv eligible
liAtilVELL.—The witness said two or three
insmes bad been removed from the panel ; be wished to
know whether it was fur political feeling ?
The question was not resumed.
On the motion of Mr. tiOULBURN the Chair
was then reported progress, and obtained leave to ►it
-again this clay.
'ILe evidence taken its the Commiuee was ordered t 4,
be laid before the House.
Colonel HARRY moved there be laid before the
House a return of the names of the Corporations of
Dahlia, as they stood in Jan. 181-I, !Slat 1820, and
db23.—Orderid.
A conversation then occurred on the propriety of
bringing over Mr. •Blake as a witness .frotu Ireland;
after which. the other Orders of the d.y sum disposed
ef, and the !loose •

Adjourneilithiif-pst one o'clock

_
'•! ;Wm &ma'am—Oao364omA Legate wasiont
opngdeted to the Beringh Tiwksibary, ebartea
stitit Wing =rain. chemist riding bdiouffe •
in, to Mr.. ' of Sudbury, .f parlik of
Tidenhanat (Honesty. and also a salileistildlifih.
• property of Mr. James, of the same place. Titelsortei
was sudea late no Thursday sight. and sespieleo ll
epos the prisoner, who bad formerly 'semis a respect- _
able line as a butcher at Mathoil. near (Wpm,. lie
was quiekly puttied by the owner andlii: Lewis. one of
his neighbours ; but so certain tidings roald be obtained
of him until they arrived at Over turnpike-gate, near
Uloscester, where they toned that a man had passed
through at six o'clock in the morning. who had so mo-
ney to pay the toll, and:therefore left a pair of old shoes
in pledge ; and at Gloucester bridge, the gwe-keeper
actually described the prininer and the horse, sad more-
over produced one of the stirrups of the saddle. which
bad been left to pay, the toll. On their arrival at the
latter place, they heard that a person answering the de-
scription of. Morgan had been detained at Tewkesbury.
on suspicion of having stolen the horse on which he
rode ; and on repairing thither they found the objects of
their pursuit. Ihe cause of the prisoner's detention at
Tewkesbury arose from his having offered at the her-
mitage ternpilie.gate the only stirrup he had left to the
satid!e, in lira of minty, end from the fatigned condi-
tion of the poor home, chick bad evidently been over-
ridden.
On Tuesday last, as two fine boys, sons of Mr. W.
Howells, were fishing near the Bridge, in this city, one
of them fed into the Wye, when his brother immediately .
rushed into the wider. to order to rescue him, but we are
sorry to oats, the gallant boy fell a victim to his endea-
vours, and W drowned before assistance could be ren-
dered him. The. Boy who fell in was saved with difficul-
ty from the fate his unf.rtunate brother met in attempt-
ing his deliveranee.—(HersfordJoerisel.)
Reports having been circulated among the villages
near this city. that two unfortunate convicts were to be
executed on Friday ee'nnight, at the new drop, a coun=
tryntan actually came from Chew Magna, a distance of
seven miles, not only to witness the mournful sight him-
self, but brought with him a waggon and three horses
to accommodate other spectate', sat 11. per head. Th.;
poor man's situation, on finding his neighbour had told
him a thumping lie as he expressed himself, may he
more easily imagined than described.—(Brietol Mer-
eery )
lhe following is a verbatim et literatim Copy of
[ Caution issued by a learned Son of zEsculapius to the
' inhabitants of Pontypool, to ben are of ignorant impos-
tors :
A Caesium to the Inhabetene of Pontypool and the
Neighbronde Respecting Aman by the name of Williwn
Reeves whom bath Latley bees in this Countery travling
and Calling his self Mr. tucker but be is Nothing but a
Impostor and A swingler
—therefore Mr. tucker bags to obstrve that he him-
self is Now at the Biwe boor Inn a hitch he hash worms
thirty yards Longer Now to be Seen and Medicines of a;l
Disscriptions May be bad of Mr. tucker as Mr. tucker
hash braided is this Coniery as Six years.

LONDON MARKETS.
CORN EXCHANGE, NARK LANit.
Quantities and Prices of British. Corn, &e. sold and del;-
eared in this market, Gulag tbe week ended Saturday, the
Seth of April t-.
Qra. z 1. a. e. d.
Wheat . 6,888 for 20,382 b 4 Average .. 60 I
Barley
0a15...........12,5011 .4 '3,878 (1 3 . . .. 4
Rev OA 84, s O
1.791 ... %doll 11 1
esa 31 4,

• POP& ON ORAIN ON 1110111/IM IMP, AI IMOLA :=
all. I
Wilsii, rot (444 :.' 411 66 Beans, small. (new) . .32 3
.--- white. (old) 46 Oil
.-... red (sew) ....44 48 .--..-. tick, (new) —.28 33
.--.-- fine 6O 64 -- (old) ... 30 33
---- impede* 66 68 -- harrow (new) ..30 33
-- whits (sew) 46 BO (old) ..22 35
........- tali lie 66 Oats, feed 1 II 84
........ Bersdia.. ea 86 fine 26 87
18 *2 Poland B4 37
Bark; 92 II
Ise 24 1111 Potato. 26 29

saperine• ....17 39 -------- inn • •••119. 30
Noll •,••••••.•••• •• •.414,50 Scotch.: St 33
lan 56 60 --.-
Penne, ltOz ' ' 30 St Flour, per Seek 30 33
-7.-- maple 35 37 Seconds 44 40
----r--.arbite 33 36 -- North Country 43 Irk
boilari .... . . —39 43 Pollard, , ffae per q r„..141' IS
.....7..
Bruit • SS 34 Brae . • HI IF

• _SEEDS, &c.
MONDAY. May,lL—Tito alteration in tile flood Trade sinew
our last, with the aiespdon of ltipeleedorldeh is advaaelakt
U. per last, ~ . ..

MEAT.
Ittrnirtr Le, mommi, gat 5.

Priers roamed by the Clerk 9f the Market.
Iran ST.HT rowtos.(LLITII.) s. d.
d. d. 0 to. li.l
Reef .3 Sto 4: S Peek .4;44—.4 0 4 01
440,44 ......,6 0 6 1 Lamb 4 l IR
cirr Li AT NAHACT THIS DAY.
Blitits, I tl; "Caltitai (130 Sheep, 14,980; Pigs, VO.
. .
3111S0A.T1 HAUS!, 0c1e54,7, etas 3.
PSI IT. or Irrouils4(l,sal4.) 4. d.
r. I. V. d. a.... 0 to 4 4
Beefp • ' I Sto 3 8 4 4 4
i 144044... 9 3 10 Ipseslo 0 -A-

• • MICR OF BRICAD.
pries
Vie rek* th 4*. Loaf ip states' at Ind. by the Tent
e MAere.

HAY AND STRAW, Pia LOAD.
SMITHVIELD--Iliky, Ws. Od. to 901. oa.—Straw, 304. Od.
to M. Od.—Clover, 1304. Od. .to 954.0 d.
dassas's.—Hay, 794. Od. to Win Od.—Straw, 435. 6d.
to 725. Od.—(:lover, t+Os. 04. to 934. Od.
Wu rr Ectupai.—Hay, 725.0 d. to 904. Od.—Straw,bos. Od.
to 395. Od.—Clover, OOs. Od. to 934.04.

PRICE o) HOPii, ran Carr. 1* 'rue 11049,UGH.
saw amts. Z. s. 4-... xi* Fieptat: 2. s'. •
Kest 9 to 4 0 last • . " Nile. 4
Sussex ll,— 9 9 AMOK* *-7 i 1,1
gave; 0— 0 0 Essax... l4 le
Yearling Bais 110 —1 Ib Parithato 5 9 t •
Toirllagroaketri 'eta, •

TALLOW, ale: Ali CWT.
RUSASCarldiejeno-W; 71. 145.0 to W. --s.--17/Ift. Siberia.
IL ISs.toUl.Os.Ditto, Soap, 11.11.. to W. lb.—Archangel,
1.11. Its. t 4 01. 44.—Town 'Fallow, IL lßs. to 01, os.—Melted
Stur. IL Be to W. Us.—hough ditto, W. 16s. to W. Os
Orates 10s. to O..—(food Dregs, 01. Cos:--Soar, London yel-
low, Si. 14s. to CIL Os.-06. mottled, 41. card, 41.
6s.—Do. soft, 01. Os.—Starch, English, 01. Us.
Pates oft Row EAT, per stoonof albs.--Peicis, by Tallow
(u stated by t6a Tallow Melters). 24. 10.

POTATO }IN:
I
ilipiTALri MOW per Too: gOatovieg. INT Tee-
Chsaploos....arB 110 to .4 111 War 0.....•. .43 10 to 4 10
Qx-N0b1f5..... ,3 oto 4 U Middliap ......5 otu 2 14)
Middlings 110 to 8 0 F...te c .113 V, V "0
Chats •3. oto t 5 Annuli Ited... 3 oto 3 IS
thsionsos. Od. to 01.0 d. per b. Otd•MlNß.od.to Os. Od. per b

COAL ti ARICST,_ MAT A.
Naps at Market. • Sold: Pride:
St Newcastle VS! ' • 31. 011;03 Mk. ILL
45.84130e411114.

`aX~~~

TUESDAY EyENING, MAY 6, 1823.

German papers. received this morning, bring nothing
of a political kind, except speculations on the duration
of the war between France and Spain. According to an
article from Frankfort ,dated April 22d, a general opi-
nion prevails there, among the bankers and specnktors
in foreign securities, that the war will be short, and wa-
gers have been laid that peace will be concluded
in three month'. The remarks that follow this
assertion are rather curious :--••• It is believed
that for some time hence the Exchange and
prices of funds at Paris and Vienna will continue to im-
prove \ What a more remote futurity may bring, the spe-
culators in foreign paper do not inquire, as they calculate
on short periods only, in which they think' themselves
sore of success. It is owing to this belief that the Span-
ish bonds of the loan negociated by Hope and Holland,
have recovered their credit.—lt might otherwise appear
strange, that jest at this moment the Spanish funds
should hare risen at the same time as the French. Thom
who believe that the absolute monarchy still be restored
in Spain, think also that in such a caPe there can be no
donht of the recognition of the debts contracted by the
Spanish Government before the year IS2O. For the same
mann there is no demand for bonds of the loan nego-
ciated by La Fitte,"
A Letter from Leipsig gives rather an unfavourable ac-
count of the commencement of the tair,as well for silk goods,
English manufactures, and articles of luxury, as for
Saxon and other German manofactures. There are
scarcely any purchasers from Poland and Russia, those
countries being as it were hermetically sealed by the new
regulations of the customs; from Moldavia and Wal-
lachia also the purchasers are few, became, as may be
well imagined, trade is entirely It a stand in those prin-
cipalities, and ready money is very scaree.—ln one article,
however, the business done at the beginning of the fair
has been very considerable and profitable, contrary to ex-
pectaloo ; namely, in ordinary and middling Prussian and
Saxon woollen cloths. which have been readily purchased
at good prices. The warehouses belonging to several places
(from 2,1)00 to 3.0)0 pieces) are wholly cleared, by which
considers* sums go to Prussian and Saxon manufacturing
towns. Fine cloths also, from the same countries, at 2i to
3 six dollars, per Brabant ell, have met with a good sale,
there being an extraordinary number of purchasers from
the north and north-west, as well is from the south of Ger-
many and Switzerland.
From Switzerland we learn that the Council of State of
the Canton of Frihurg, after a debate of two days, has sup-
pressed the schools of matnal instruction throughout the
whole Canton. The votes for and against the system being
equal. the negative roie of the President decided. It was in
vain that the Council of Education lied given its opinion in
favour of this method. It is thought that the great council
will be invoked in May; it will have to discass the plan
which wilt be laid before it fora new system of education,
the basis of which is to be simultaneous instruction.
By advices from the Frontiers of Moldavia, we are in-
formed that the Moldavian and Wallachian emigrants
have obtained permission from Vienna to remain on the
frontiers till the month of May. One of the Boyards,
who had returned to Buchatest, was arrested on his ar-
rival. It seems that the troubles in Little Walachia are
of no importance. Four Bulgarians, who bad assassi-
nated a Turk, took refuge in the Russian territory, but
the Russian authorities have ordered theca to be deli-
vered up to the Turks.

Paris papers to the sth instant base been received. A
Telegraphic despatch announces that Mequicenza,which
bad been held by the Spanish Royalists and blockaded
by the Constitutional forcer, has been freed from the
blockade, in consequence of the movements of General
Melitor, after be had taken possession of Saragossa.
The flight of the traitor Amirante into Spain is con-
firmed; but what is the result of defeat and despair is
represented in the Ultra Papers as the effect of previous
arrangement., and the arrival of the " Royal Por-
tuguese Army" (swelled to 11,000 infantry, and
MOO cavalry), to cooperate with the Invaders,
is exultingly announced as an event which must give
the last Motor to the indeprndence of the Peninsula.
The Quotidtemee asserts that Valencia had been occn-
pied by Ulmann's corps, and that the first care of that
Chief " was to arrest the Judges of General Elio, who
had concealed themselves in the city, as well as the
Chiefs of the Patriotic Society, and to have them shot."
The Journal de Paris contradicts the report in the most
formal manner, and adds that so far front Valencia being
exposed to any danger, that place was deemed so se-
cure that the Constitutional General Manso bad been
able to march towards Catalonia, to unite his forces
with those of Dallasteros and Mina.—But whilst
the Papers represent the advance of the French as a
triumphal march, and the subjection of Spain as more than
half accomplished, private accounts from quarters entitled
to some credit, describe their situation in a very dif-
ferent point of view. Even the Courier acknowledges,
is a paragraph we have copied In another part of our paper
that the Duke his found unexpected difficulties in his way.
In consequence of the system of defence adopted by the
Spaniards, 100,000 men were not sufficient to carry on of-
fensive operations at any distinee from the line of the Ebro.
}le is therefore stated to have strongly urged the necessity
of Immediate reinforcements, and it is added that 30,000
additional troops have received orders to march from the
Northern pins of Prance to the Pyrenees. Should this in-
formation tarn out to be correct, it must prove the beet corn-
sent possible, on the real state of affairs in the Peninsula.—lf
the army of the Duke be not sufficient to keep the field,
and to carry on-liao sieges of the few fortresses in his rear,
‘ffitliat sot 4d#ting Os numerous ones which he has not