The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-02-18 00:00:00

would nobs

commercial interests, while it was re

garded with distrust by the agriniturists.
Mr. SCOTT supported the government.
Mr. H ASTIE contended at some length that the sliding

scale had the innate mischief of destroying our commerce,
and ruining our manufactures, by the derangement which it
occasioned in the currency, and which no system of corn
laws could be exempt from if based upon a sliding scale of
duties.

Mr. CHRISTMAS was of opinion that by the plan of the
government the growth of wheat was sufficiently protected,
but he feared that other kinds of •grain were not so, and
more particularly in reference to the produce of Ireland
Mr. RoEnt

1 he should vote in favour of the motion
)f the noble lord, but wished to guard himself from having it
supposed that he and those who voted with hint were in any
way to be deemed inconsistent if they should hereafter vote
against the imposition of any duty at all. He thought the
plan proposed by the right hon. baronet both unwise and
impolitic. Although it was true that no party on either side
of the house could be held responsible for the distress which
prevailed, and which, in fact, was the result of the tremen-
dous struggle in which this country had been engaged with
France, which struggle was only maintained by its manufac-
turing energy—still, although not answerable for its exist-
ence, they would be answerable for the manner in which
they dealt with it, and certainly the proposition of the go-
vernment was by no means likely to remedy the evil. The
right hon. baronet had taken ample time to consider of his
plan—he had raised the expectations of the empire, and after
all he (Mr. Roebuck) would leave the country to admire the
bantling. It was impossible to make this a self-supplying
country—it was impossible to prevent its being dependent on
foreign nations for supply—they had too many mouths to
feed—they should therefore give up their self-supplying no-
tions, and, by their commercial interchanges, preserve such
a bond of amity as can only be maintained by intimate mer-
cantile intercourse. He could not assent to the proposition
that the position of the landed gentry could be altered by
the repeal of the corn laws ; regarding them, with all their
beneficial influences, as. the Corinthian capitals of society, he
could not bring himself to believe that all their import-
ance to the community depended upon a tariff—upon a
twenty shilling duty. He had no doubt if the duty were
repealed they would occupy just as important and just as be-
neficial a station in society as before; if the duty should not
be repealed, perhaps the people of England may be apt to
think that they have bought this Corinthian capital too dear.
He denied that there were any peculiar burdens on the land
which entitled them to this protection—he called upon them
to prove the fact ; and if they could prove it, he would then
say that the house would at once find it a matter of economy
to relieve them from those peculiar burdens in order at the
same time to rid themselves of the duties on corn. The
right hon. baronet's character as a, statesman was at issue,
and if he continued lagging behind the spirit of the age, he
would not only risk being left behind altogether, but it would
be said of him, hereafter, that he either had not sagacity to
foresee inevitable events, or seeing had no courage to deal
with them as he ought.
Lord ASHLEY called the atttntion of the house to an at-
tack made upon him on the previous evening by the hon.
member for Sheffield, who imagined that he had cheered the
hon. member for Knaresborough when making some attacks
which his lordship had in point of fact never heard, for he
did not know until next morning that the hon. member for
Knaresborough had spoken at all.
Mr. WARD expressed his unfeigned regret for the error
into which he had fallen, and asked the noble lord's pardon
for observations which resulted entirely from unintentional
mistake.
Loid ASHLEY expressed himself satisfied.
Lord SANDON commenced by complaining of the manner
in which the language of the merchants of Liverpool engaged
in the American trade, as contained in the petition he (Lord
Sandon) had presented, had been commented upon by the
right hon. member for Taunton. Now, although he was not
prepared to deny that those merchants preferred a fixed duty
to a sliding scale, still the right lion. gentleman had no right
to assume that which was not the fact—viz., that in the opi-
nion of the petitioners the new sliding scale, as proposed by
ministers, was not a great improvement upon the sliding
scale as it at present existed, and that they did not believe
that great benefit would resuit from it to commerce and ma-
nufactures. If the house would allow him he would read an
extract from a letter he had received from one of those mer-
chants, in which he said—" You are aware that my own judg-
ment inclines to a fixed duty, but knowing that the feeling of
the government is in favour of a sliding scale, I am disposed
to look on the proposition as brought forward as a very great
improvement, when I consider the very large amount of the
present undue protection, while it affords an ample guarantee
against our being dependant upon foreign countries for too
large a proportion of our supplies." (Hear, hear, and
cheers.) The danger of being dependent upon foreign
nations for the supply of food was to be avoided by every
country. America was fully alive to this. The late Presi-
dent of the United States, in his message to the Congress,
three years ago, had adverted to the evils likely to result
from a country placing itself at the mercy of others for its
supplies of food, leaving it in the power of those foreign
nations to concede or to refuse them. (Hear, hear.) He
had already referred to a communication, showing that in
the eyes of mercantile men the proposition of the govern-
ment was likely to be attended with most important advan-
tages to the mercantile interest. He had also had a commu-
nication with a gentleman connected with the milling interest,
who had informed him that the government measure would
have the effect of affording facilities for the trade in foreign
flour which did not at present exist ; for as flour was a pe-
rishable article, all persons were anxious to avoid speculating
for the home market under the existing system, owing to its
Uncertainty, but now there would be a regular trade going
on, and of course a great advantage to those engaged in it.
These were the opinions of practical men, who looked upon
the question of the corn-laws as a matter of business. They
saw in the ministerial measure a great improvement upon the
present law. He (Lord S.) thought these opinions formed
a sufficient answer to the assertion put forward by the other
side that the measure of the government would leave the
trade in corn precisely in the same position in which it now
was. He must beg to warn the house against those dreams
of perfect prosperity which were. held out to the house by
gentlemen opposite, as the result, if they would but accept
their nostrums, of a perfect free trade or a fixed duty. Mr.
Greg, of Manchester, in his pamphlets on the corn laws,
the object of which was to show the advantages of a free
trade in corn, had, after refet ring to the way in which British
manufactures were now driven out of every neutral market
by our continental rivals, and the importance of our endea-
vouring to regain our position, admitted that, to effect that
object, a reduction in the wages of labour was necessary ;
for he said that foreign nations had a decided advan-
tage over us in this respect, and that an increased trade
in provisions would be beneficial in reducing that advan-
tage, though, he added, he doubted if it could be entirely
removed. (Hear, hear.) But were the manufacturers alone
to be considered ? Now, they had been told that the ef-
fect of the corn laws had been to bring into cultivation
a very large amount of land in this country. which
would not else have been cultivated, and which now em-
ployed a large proportion of our population. If those
laws were repealed, and all protection to British agriculture
were withdrawn, that land would be thrown out of cultiva-
tion, and what then would become of all those who were
now engaged in tilling the soil? (Hear.) Hundreds of thou-
sands, nay millions, of persons would thus be thrown on the
poor-rates, or sent into the manufacturing towns, to lower
the price of wages there. Therefore he (Lord Sandon)
held that it was the interest of all classes, not that of a few
landed proprietors only, to give such a. protection to agricul-
ture as should prevent this calamity. It was alike import-
ant to all parties to consider this question in all its bearings.
If they thought it necessary to reduce the present amount of
protection, it was due from them as wise statesmen to make
that reduction gradually, and to see the effect of such an
alteration as that proposed by his right hon. friend at the
head of the government, before they decided upon making
so sweeping a change as that proposed by the noble lord the
member for London (Lord J. Russell.) .He was of opinion
that if the changes in the present corn laws were brought
about with consideration, they might confer important ad-
vantages on our commercial interest, give the people food at
a cheaper rate, and still preserve a due amount of protection.
to agriculture. That important interest might, he believed,
be preserved, without infringing upon any other. He thought
that, by a judicious compromise like that now proposed by
the government, our commerce and manufacturers might be
promoted and extended, while that protection which the

landed interest had a right to look for would be maintained.
He would not longer detain the house. (Hear.) He had
risen chiefly to state that commercial men, who were unin-
fluenced by mere party considerations, were to a great extent
satisfied with the government measure, and accepted it as a
great boon and as a large measure, conceived in most liberal
spirit. (Hear, hear; loud cries of " d ivide," and "question.")
Lord WORSLEY could not give his assent to the motion of
•Sir R. Peel, nor could he give his assent to the proposition
of the noble lord, the member for the city, for a fixed duty
of Bs. The noble lord (Worsley) quoted the opinions deli-
vered at the hustings by many of the conservative members,
and asked them how, having pledged themselves to their
constituents to maintain their existing protection to agricul-
ture, they could do otherwise than join him in voting against
the proposition of the right hon. baronet.

Mr. CHRISTOPHER complained that the noble lord (Wors-
ley) had not fairly represented his arguments upon this sub-
ject. He would say, however, that the agricultural interest
would prefer taking the measure of the right hon. bart. as it
stood, with its defects, such as they were, rather than place
themselves at the mercy of the noble lord's legislation. In
reply to an imputation which had been thrown out against
him, he would appeal to the government to say whether he
ever had any communication with them until after he had
published his opinions on the corn laws.
Mr. G. BERKELEY supported the propriety of a fixed
duty, and, therefore, would vote for the noble lord's motion.
Sir R. PEEL said he had to contend against two classes of
antagonists ; each, though joined in. opposing him, equally
opposed to the views of the other ; and he had expected that
the noble lord would have been more explicit in his motion
or in his speech, and defined the exact nature of his proposi-
tion. There could be no doubt but that fixed duty lurked
under the ambiguous proposition of the noble lord ; and he
could not, therefore, understand how those who.were op-
posed to all -duty' could support a motion, however vague,
which they must know was meant to be an advocacy of a
fixed duty. It was tolerably clear that the noble lord could
not have expected to maintain a compact alliance, unless by
moving a resolution as vague and innocuous as that before
the house.- He (Sir R. Peel) was not called upon that night
to deal with those gentlemen who advocated a total repeal of
the corn-laws, and he should therefore confine himself to the
consideration of the comparative merits of a fixed duty and
of a sliding scale. He did not believe that there was any
material difference between himself and the noble lord, as to
the extent of the protection required by the agriculturist; the
chief difference between them, and to which he had to direct
his arguments, being the mode by which that protection was
to be practically carried out. The right hou. baronet then
went on to show the advantages which a sliding scale would
gave over a fixed duty in preventing frauds in the averages
and gambline speculations in foreign corn. When he per-
ceived the violence with which he was assailed by gentlemen
holding extreme opinions, some thinking that the interests
of the manufacturers were not sufficiently consulted, while
others thought sufficient protection had not been given to the
agriculturist, he was more strongly convinced the measure
was a good one, and likely to be well received by all moderate
men as a great improvement of the existing law. He denied
that the duties he proposes would have the effect of acting as
a prohibition to importation, except when corn was below
513., at which price the home grower ought to be protected
against foreign competition. His wish was to make the im-

portation of foreign corn supplemental to our home supply,
rather than that it should supereede it in any great degree ;
for if importation took place to such au extent as to super-
sede home grown corn, tne dap might come when, from
deficient harvests, or other causes, they might have bitter
experience of the imprudence of discouraging agriculture at
home. The right lion. hart. then entered into a calculation to
show the advantage of the government proposition over the

present law, and the amelioration it effected at various points
of the scale as compared with the existing rate of duties. It
might have been wiser for into, if he acted merely as a party
man, to say that he would stand by the corn-laws and resist
all change ; hut, as a minister of the crown, most important
responsibilities were cast upon him, and he was compelled to
devise a measure consistent at the same time with giving due

encouragement to manutacturtng industry whileTatfoiding
reasonable protection to the agriculturist. (The right hon.
baronet resumed his seat amidst continued cheering.)
Lord PALMERSTON contended that the measure of the
government had been aptly described by. Lord John Russell,
who had called it a measure calculated to disturb everything
and settle nothing. It was not in the power of man to please
every one ; but the government had been unfortunate enough
to please no one by this
plan they had brought forward.
The gallery was cleared for a division, when the motion of
Lord J. Russell was negatived by a majority of 349 to 226.
After some conversation, the house adjourned to Friday.