The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-02-22 00:00:00

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makes into divisiope which would feed
::iiteteat branchee'of employment. This
!node In which the, Lordships could hot
a remedy to the present distress. New
inents whipti it was necessary to remove,
respect to our Foreign Trade, the restrictions under
jkl Ilieheerede _and with respect to otu House
Trail* the taxes which it had to pay, and each of
%said& the slat dt a legisladve restriction on
aelinftwit l capital. It was true that tile dimitm-'
tion of ta:ces belotiged more ptoperly to • the other
Mime ; but he trusted that it would never be foreign
their•Loediehips how to make sac% reductions to
7,11110 Te dist:ars. The mistaken policy of this country
Wad led to flee enactment of a great number of legit.
tatkeiesitietions which produced the same effect upon
ieir Fairies Trade, as taxes did upon our Home
'eroe. That was an unnatural state, and one to
or he whaled more immediately to call
t attention of thole Lordships. The difficulty
Mt hot consist in asserting general principles, but
if, the mode of prorldlog for their application.—
_Cannel it was easy tor Parliament to obtain the
tidiest assertion of general principles. the moment they
arrived at a particular application, they trwt tin-
(alerted resistance from some external interests which
.tatted up to oppose it. lie well knew that science
had made such progress within the walls of that
'Wise as to prevent the triumph of those interests, if
the subject wit treated with sufficient attention, sad
measures went not sometimes passed as matters of
coarse, after they had received the sanction of another
heanch of the legislature. This reminded him of
seisat had been said on a former occasion, when it was
propeeed to grant a loan to Austria, which she bad
hut. yet returned. A distinguished individual hail
then observed, that he might apply to the character
given of the House of Austria, what was said in the
hst British- play respecting the differrnce between
parsons of fashion and the vulgar, that vulgar persons
*rabble(' about terms, but persons of fashion never
squabbled about terms, but did nut care how they
kept them. When it was proposed to carry general
prineples into effect, all interests rose up and contend-
el ter themselves, except the unfortunate consumer,
un whom the weight ultimately fell. It was to the
jetties' of the consumer, unquestionalily, that that
Hoist was bound to attend to in preference to all
°tiler interests. But in all great changes which might
he Made, the !form must take care that they should
be • gradually effee_ted. There were innumerable
preambles to acts of Parliament imposing restrictions
Arm trade; our commerce had flourished in spite of
them, not by means of them, and would attain greater
prosperity by their rejection. On those ground.; he
should propose to revive the Committee of last year,
to Inquire late the state of the Foreign trade.
The question having been pnt,
Lord ELLENROROUOII regretted that he should
have occasion to differ with the Noble Marquis ; but
he could not entertain the same views of the effect
likely to be produced on the existing distress by the
redaction of taxes. if that Noble Marquis looked at
Our present establishment, he wool(' see that the ut-
most practicable reductions could not be to such an
awnonnt as to be Mt as a remedy. There was one
mode, however, he conceived, of affording consider-
able relief. That mode consisted, not in the removal
the taxes, but in their more equal sail appropriate
distribution so as to press more lightly upon sna-
facnuturers. He might appeal, in support of Isis
opinion to the Report of the Committee of last year
on the Timber Trade. When such irregularities bad
ban discovered in one branch of trade, he hoped
there was no doubt but that if the same research
were carried into the whole of our commercial system,
msch a new arrangeustut and distribution of ditties
might take place, as would afford efficient relief to
manufacturers, without diminishing the receipts of
the Treasury.
The motion was then agreed to. and a Committee
appointed. consisting of the same members as that
of last year.
HOME TRADE.
' The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose to move for certain!
P TVS of which be had given notice. la doing yrs.!
he din not intend to enter into any details respecting
the general state of the country ; but he was anxious
that both the Home and the Country should have be-
este them the means of forming a correct judgment :
and if, after the information he had collected had been
laid before them, more should still appear to be ne-
ioessary. be assured Noble Lords that they should hare
every amistance 10%4 power to procure it. The re-
. search which he hail made, arose chiefly front what
had passed on the first day of the Session, when he
Lad expressed his opinion, that the existing distress
Was in a great twasstre occasioned by excess of pro.
auction ; wlsilatlse Noble Marquis opposite had con-
tended, that it proceeded front diminished cansemp-
titn. He had therefore been led to collect the best in-
. fatmadon which he could on the state of the constimp-
• lion of the country. With respect to the consumption
• of -Bread, them was no means of obtaining correct in-
'. -1;v-elation. it was only of a general nature, conshoing
eLioray of surmises founded on the importation or expor-
t ation of corn. flat there were means of closely ascertain.
is the real coastumption of the country in almost every
other article. Thalr'Lordships were aware that with
-eteepect to the Excite, that great branch of the Revenue,
,•". the duties were taken on the quantity of the articles
.1.. Consumed ter a certain 'Amber of years. subject, an-
... 'ilaubtedly, to one qtrafilleation, smuggling, which in-
. • trotbreed articles which did hot fall within the Revenue.
• • -Pit this gasification would not materially operate on
the view of the Moe before the Committee; or if it del,
.. Itl mast lead to an inference, that the 'consumption was
-lit/fond what appeireiron the official returns. He hail
'tile satisfaction to 'state, that on a great number of
ankles wu which he most relied, because front their
. *attire, they were less exposed to fluctuation, there
fruit an intivased consumption. Ile meant to call for
s air Recreant or the Timothy of the several articles.
' seblehlt sheitlefterwards mention, on which Excise
shut bad been Char&eldring the four years ending
•th lantrary 18,24-:"Mtvitutphrison of the last year
wittt the three pieesideV. Those articles should be,
Nor, Candles,' Iffillete, 'TRW. and Skins, Jlalt, Pepper.
Skit, Soip.. Forrlgir= Mote Tee, Toliar:al, and
- *agar.lterwiliss" for the Palters, there might
Ile mete-axe iu Metlag the genera' results on the 'lit%
• bent articles: The lest article • then to which he
• Irohlti 'Aireet* ese httelttlen at the. House was•that of
t'Stritt*lnert The weeeego•.: venher of barrels on
thities•wereleald in'Ese &fee years, 1911,1919,

7177-•

next article mat that of Candles. -
three last years was 79.810,409 cwt. Laet year the
amoent wee 86,356,0041, making an increase of. abort'
three williath. Coffee for the three lut years aver.
aged 7;531,000 ; last yen then fM a Amine- '
tion. in this article to the antortat of 1541,000
bolls. Hides and. Skins. average of three years'
46,219,000 cwt. last rear 44.702.000•
nsakhne
a aboinution of LS 17.000. Malt, wetrage (Sr Ilia
last three • years 23,299,000 quarters, lest • yet*.
24,511,000, making an increase of 1,222,000. Übe'
and Rock Salt. for internal consumption, average
three years, 1,936,000; last year 1,961.000,
an increase of 45,000. Rock Salt fur exportatieot,
average of three years 861,000 ; last year 1,1110.00111
Soap, average for three years 69,474,000 ; last year
7:1,7(19,01)0, making an increase or 4,291,000. Soft
Soap, the average of the last three years 4,569,000;
last rear 5,162,000, making an intense of 616,000.
British Spirit., average of the last three rears
5,067,000; last year 6,575,000, making an lag'
crease of 1.017,0110. Rum, average of the three
4362
years 2.791,0011; last year 2.754.01111, makieteett iii. PI
433,1100. Brandy. average of last three years 60641,1 t,
last yew:, .1.048,1100, making an increase of 277,1010.
Tea, average of last three years 22,166,000 ; last year
2'2,142,000; increase 356,000. Tobacco, Aversive of
three years 11,847,000 ; last year 11,6-40,0410. Os this
article there was a decrease ; and there was elan oleos
Stool to the amount of 167,000. On all Foreixo Wines
there was a diminution this year. The average of French
II Ines for the last three years was 977,000; last year.iii
was 916,000; diminution 61,000. Wines not brought froft
France. age of three Years 16,116.000; lest year
16,3110,000 ; diminution 2.146,000. On ('ape tine
there was a diminution of e„146,000. Sugar committed
in England al %. average of three years 31117,1101Erwt.1
last year 3,413,0011; increase 296,000. I. rem all these
statements it would appear, that with the esceptiottat
Wine anal some few other articles, so far from any Mali-
notion havine taken place, there mate a oonsitiortble
increase; and after this he would ark their IfisMi.,
ships what ground was there for suppdeing that thl
was a dimintitien in the consumption of h:eall, ortdoill
constituted the food of the great mass of the people,
therefore he still persisted in maintaining that del,
agrieulteral distresses did not arise from the decrease
of consumption, but front an increase of production.
Be knew very well that ilistres, existed in many parts
of the country ; and he brought forward this state-
meet, as a consolinz fact to shew how impitiwilde
it was that the comforts of the labourine classes
cuttld have been diminished, if consumption hail
inereased. Ile folly agreed with the Noble Mar-
quis, that there ought to be so alteration in
the Corn Laws; and that such a measure could
have no effect in relieving the distresses of the coun-
try ; bait he could not agree with those who MOa..
mended alterations in the laws relating to trade. Other,
countries might be superior to us la some commercial
regnlations ; but there was no dependence no their
permanency; anal the great advantage which lids,
country enjoyed above others was, that the petple
knew what the laws were. whether good or buff; "Id
he thought that frequent fluctuations in the laws of
commerce were worse than long existing resleictions.
With r:apect to agriculture, he believed that it Was
in a great measure caused by the eirettuistatice u per.
sons having, during the last years of the war, brought
into enitivatinn great tracts of land which had never
been destined for it ; and that, ton, at a great expense.
There was another circumstance which contributed
to the dist reux of our agriculture, hat it at as one which
ought to excite congratulation instead of regret—he
alluded to the improved agriculture of Ireland. Some
years ago a very small portion of corn was imported
from thnt country. Among this corn there was searely
any wheat. In one year 58,000 quarters of wheat
were imported ; hut last year die quantity was no less
than 351,575 quarters. As to the collection of
taxes, the effect of an alteration in the mode of
collecting any tax, would be a diminution of
produce, anal an increase of difficulty; and an
attempt to alter the taxation on a large male, would
increase the general distress of the country. Therm
fore, it would be unwise to adopt any course OW
should alter the general state of taxation, and praise
that derangement which most be iroduetive of a gene-
ral derangement in the Revenue. lie cancluded with
moving fur the papers to which he referred.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN replied. lie assured
th? House that at Birntieghaan and Olitagow, and other
manufacturing places, there bad been a great dimine-
lion in the consumption of meat anti bread.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL maintained that it was
impossible to awertain the precise state of the cow-
sumption in any other way except by regular returns.
such as hr then moved for ; and from the statements
he had jest made, he had a right to conclude that as
these material articles had increased, the consemption
in general of other things bad also increased.
Lord ERSKINE contended that the real rinse of
all the distresses of the country was the destructive
'meta of war raraml en fur the last this tp fete.
which hail created overgrown capitalists, who were
now enjoying vast advantages oa the distresees of
others. Bet the Noble Earl, Übe certain doctors,
who would recommend to their patients, while in the
last stage of life, to persevere in the use a the medi-
cines which they had long and ineffectually prescribed,
weaned determined to adopt no remedy, but let
the save systety go on under which all our calamities
hail grown up. Ills Lordship uext adverted
distressed state of our agriculture, and the enonnottl
militant of the Poor-rates; to rentedy which the Legit-
lature never thought of devising any measure. TheW
pernicious laws were swallowing up the whole agri-
cultural interests of the country. It was absolutely
necessary to fix on some early day to take all the piu
titions on the subject of agaritheral distress into
consideratiou, with a view of adopting tome general
system of relief.
Lord KIND.--The Noble Earl opposite heti stated
various causes, front time to time, for the distreis
which affected the country. But now came the molt
extraordinary cause of all, that of excessive preelec-
tion. Among the numerous follies of man-
kind which Swift had- held tip to ridicule, he
had never touched on that of excessive peoducdon.
This 'eras a fully .whkh Oo (Raliltee was ever
(win Ito expose. it was well lusimet *that 111100—
of produce &yodel, ea liirallh`-`

-
.

• is-

of capital tiectssatifly
. Bat it *as also wee kilo,.
very considerable ilecreaseef esp.
.ct be reasoned, wittiest fear of cots-
.t there mist also be a dormer a imp;
anemias article of Han" he weld assure
the House, that the decrease of the use of live is agri-
calture was inconceivable.—(lleac.)-1f It were tree
that there had been an est:alive predate, heir Could
it be retonctied with that Bret ? Again, ea
yredere would bare caused an increase of labs*.
Now if there had been as ieerease of labour,
was it that the poor-rates had been -Increased to RAe
present enormous amount? If there bad been sods h$
abundance of produce as had been states], was it
enough to compensate fur die decrease of price ? If
{hat had been the ease,' agriculture would not
have suffered as It had. Beeeesive produce was sot
the cause of the distress. The real cause of it was to
be found in the twenty•live Feeds war--40eir)--and
stow they must pay for it. But those by wharf it was
proposed mast have well knows, that if It enabled
them to pay the expense of the war without eecasioe-
lug say extraordinary remora at the time, that-Teve-
Sure would he felt with ten-fold severity when the pe-
riod of returning ton legitimate currency wouldirrlie.
When he saw a decrease of capital, and au increase silt
Population. le oosid not shut his eyes end say, that the
cannery was not in a deteriorated stale. The milt
effeemal core was economy. if Boveveneent coati.
nned their present profusion, they became themselves
the great cans?. of that distress. they
be looked -it
the want of control in the Treasury, at the increase of
the whole Civil Establialitusat in time of peace, what
it ought to have been reduced, tbe Noble. Earl might.
prove what he pleased with hie papers, he(Lord King)
was convinced, that the tree eanseef all these distrsostesi
was the unbounded profusion of (Internment.
The Earl of DARNLEY said he firmly believed. that
no remedy proposed by the Noble sari could relieve the
distresses of the country. The only remedy which could
he adopted with effect was a diminution of taxes; for
it was the taxes that pressed upon agriculture, and upon
every other portion of the community. Feeling con.
vitte:9l that the remedy of economy and retrenchment'
must he adopted iu the cud, he thought the sooner we
had recourse to it the better.
Lord (MEV said he perfectly agreed with his Noble
Friend upon th urgent necessity of adopting a system
of retrenchsnent and eronotny. He had come down to
that House in the Imps. of hearing some satisfactory
proposal from the Noble Earl opposite, but unfortunate•
ly he mast depart without that satisfaction. He (Earl
tilrey) hail no await that the retnrus produced were pee-
fectly correct; but he had seen too many instances In
which different conclusions were drawn by thesanse
person from the same premises. However he would
not at present enter into an examination of details t be
would confine himself to a very few general °Werra-
Amis. The question was, whether the comforts of
the nation had increased. Now, was there any
man its or ont of that Hong, who could deny that the
deepest distress existed throughout the country. The
4ticult.uist, the Merchant aid the Manufacturer, were
tag eetbplaininy t and if they looked to that sae)anchely
criterion, the poor-rates, they would find a most fright-
,fl increase. Were they to be told then, that because au
lacrosse had taken place in some branches of the Es-
.eise, the general distress was therefore lessened ? Muck
hail been said respecting increase of production; but
he did not believe the existence of such increase.
He found that the last years's crop was rather under
than over the average ; and that the farmers were so
distressed, they were very generally unable to
pay their rent. Take the two causes together.
In-
crease of consumption should bring increase of de-
mand ; yet it was clear that agriculture, commerce,
and manufactures languished. Notwithstanding the
general statements of the Noble Earl this was the
fact ; and the cause was to be found in the burthens
which were imposed upon the people. bet the ease
be turned and shifted ever so much this would be
found to be the cause. A debt had been contracted,
which it was impossible to pay in proper eitrrencr
(Hear !) With respect to this debt, it had been said,
that there must he no breach of faith with this public
creditor. He was one who should consider a breach of
faith as a great national evil; but he eoeld not forget
that the debt in question was contracted to support a
scandalous profusion of the public money.—(hear. hear.)
—He had no wish to exaggerate the present evils, but
he would not deny that he contemplated the present
system with dismay and horror ; for he conceived we
were in a state worse than that of France before the
Revolution ; in a state which had then been emphati-
cally described to be " the verge of bankruptcy." There
*tot no chance of averting this impending calamity but
by placing the tiovernment on the surest basis, the affec-
tions of Ilse people.—(Hear, hear.)—To gain those affec-
tions their Lordships should insist upon the correetiott
of abuses. After all the privations which the nation had
suffered with such exemplary patience, they had a right
toespect this line of conduct from the tiortrawstist
and he was perstnuted that it was the waat of sash,
lino of conduct which had alienated the affection& stf

the prople.—(Hear, hear. hear:)—The motion was than
agreed to.
The Queen's Annuity Bill wetlt through a Gino'keg;
and the Howe then adjourned.
lIOUSE OF COMMONS, Fun. 11.

• ".

S.:

Lard ALTHORP brought op the Report of the
Committee appointed to try the merits of a Petition
against the return for the Borough of lioNion, in York-
shire_ The Cotutuittee declared that the sittiog Mem-
ber. John 'bait, Esq. was duly elected, hot that the
Petition against his return did not appear to he either
frivoloos or frolutions.
• An Hottonesitie !demean presented a Position ram
Ate inhabitants of filattiorranshire, eoviminining of
agriettitnral distress.—Ordered to be printed.
•Sir THOMAS LETS! II RI MR presented a. Petition
of a similar Nature from the Coanty of Somerset
signed by 100,4164. petitioners, occupying upwards of
fonr millions of acres.---Ordered to he printed.
Sir mAr:rttsv RIDLEY presented a Petition from
some part of the Coney of Northnntherhinsi, against
any alteration in the existing regulations respecting
the Foreig's Timber Ttade.-7Referred to the 1.4110-
mitt«, sitting• toe• that subject.
'Air. 11101allit 81.131INER postponed his inla.ineAle
__J.: •

_,
MA uga support : 4 .1a , logglossmoo. is the laity** div dibt tile iette!te
his was the onlyi bet ira, .6,74000 buretlh making an of dense of teplity.
hope to provide. 441,000. Of Table Beer the average nmtelme of Var. there had iseen a
•w the impegli- rBll hubs lit three years was 1,447.009 ;. in tbe last and from that fa
we, were, with year 1,5118,465, mating an Inereue of 7t,000. The tradletion, that ti
...:...;..n. ...glee next article Was-tbat of Candles. 'Tim byetagn a the plr. ' la cite mho