The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-04-22 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

no Omelet' we ought e f 6 fold to conclude that an for the wholecoursee td C.'a) reaming was
*
instrument adopted under one course of circom- intended to ihor, that 4:the proper time he should
stances, is to he conclusive under circumstances of a not think it incontinent with his duty to lay the sub-
different tleseliptiou. ' stance of a Treaty upon the table. All he would
Mr. WHITBREAD.—I with to say one word say at present was, that he should be prepared on
more. A single ray of light has broken in upon us Monday to give the Honourable Gentleman a distinct
f: oni the seeech of the Noble Lord. The Noble answer.
Lord has said, that when he sees no notice on the Mr. WHITBREAD observed, that on Monday be
book he shall always conclude that I have no grounds should make the motion without entering into largo.
for censure. may have sufficient grounds for cen- meet, in order to ascertain whether the Noble Lord's
sine, but I have also- sufficient experience of Par. sense of duty would allow him to produce what was
Bement to know what the influence of the Crown is. required, in order that the House should not be
lie knows what the country gives to the Crown, and plunged into- a discussion that might be disadvan.
the country what he has given to the Crown. tageons to the country. He should make the motion
Mr. METHUEN believed the Noble Lord pos. before the Committee of Supply.
sessed the confidence of the country, which remained Mr. PONSONBY alluded to the case of Sweden,
yet unshaken. He had his entire confi-lence. where the Noble Lord had agreed to produce the sub-
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSIL—I cannot follow stance of unratified' treaties. 'He wished to know
the Honourable Gentleman who spoke last, in be- distinctly, whether, on Monday, the Noble Lord
stowing my approbation alike under any circum.. would consent to produce thesubstance of the Treaty ?
stances, without any exception, and without any He protested against being compelled to discuss the
guard. [hear, heart.] Here I beg to be understood merits of this Treaty or Convention without precise
as differing from him. I agree in tl:e position that information upon its nature.
all hearts and hands should be united on an occasion I Lord CASTLEREAGH congratulated the House
like the present ; but then our hearts. and bands , on the pacific tone that had been recently assumed by
ought to be guided by reason and conscience. But, the other side of the House, and that opinions appa-
perhaps, it is not necessary to use so many words on , rent!), so hostile had been reconciled in a manner so
this subject. The Noble Lord himself has not ad. I satisfactory.—[l tar ! and laughter.]-11e had never
'fenced what is as much as treason to the Constitu. doubted that it was consistent with the practice of
tion. The charge against the Noble Lord is, that the House to present the substance of Treaties ; it
I the mode proposed by him has a tendency to destroy might be extremely detrimental were it otherwise.—
all responsibility. What would be the consequence? All he would say at present was, that on Monday he
How could any Member bring forward a motion on would give all answer ; and he perfectly concurred in
the subject ? He would move an Address to lay a the impropriety of premature discussion. What he
Copy of the Convention before the House. Now had argued-in the first instance was, that if the Hon.
what is the Convention ? According to the Noble j Member (Mr_ Whitbread) wished to give advice to
Lord, what we have seen contains substantial inac. the Crown, he could do it as regularly upon the pub-
curacies. This Document appeared so doubtful in ' lished Treaty as upon the authentic document.
its meaning as to require en explanation on the part I Mr. WHITBREAD observed, that as the Noble
of the Crown of Great Britain to take away its dan. Lord had been the Demon, or God of the Storm,
gerous qualities. Now what is it that the Noble now he was metamorphosed into the Genius, or Hal.
Lord proposes ? He proposes nothing less than to cyon of the Calm. From what the Noble Lord ,at
take away all equality of discussion—to subject his first said, no man could have anticipated what had
opponents to bring forward a motion on grounds recently fallen from his lips. Now he was perfectly
which might not be correct; and to give himself an ready to grant every thing that was required.—[No,
opportunity of taking us by surprise, and obtaining no ! from Lord Castlereagh.]—Yes, he would grant
the House's approbation of that Conveution on a all that was wanted—the substance of the Treaty.—
statement made by him in the course of debate, [No, no!]—Well, then, the fact would- be known
which approbation might afterwards influence their ols Mouday, and Mr. hitbread had no disposition
future judgment.—He begged to ask the Noble Lord, te raise a new storm by further contention.
if the matter were to be fairly discussed, whether it I Lord CASTLEREAGIL—I canpot see that there
wpuld not be much more desirable that the House is any matter of difference between us now. The
should hare an opportunity of discussing the Treaty Honourable Member does not, however, quite ap.
in a correct state ? The-Noble Lord might lay it in- , prove of my conduct, and lam not sorry for it, be-
formally upon the table, as he bud done the Papers cause there is nothing that I am so much afraid of as
regarding Genoa and Sweden. The Treaty of Chau- his praise.
moot had also been laid in substance before the Mr. WHITBREAD.—The fear expressed
.by the
House, although it had not been ratified, and the Noble Lord is quite as unfounded as my praise would
same course might no* be pursued. This was the , have been If .1 had ever bestowed it; for the fact is,
fair and only way of meeting the question, unless the that he never received a scintilla of applause (famine
Noble Lord meant to obtain the applause of the during the whole course of his political life. • •
House by stratagem. If, as the Noble Lord had The question was then put, and it. was ordered
said, the genuine Treaty had been so mis.represent- that the House at its risingshould adjourn till Moil-
ed, was it not the more necessary that a correct Iday.
statement of its contents should be furnished, even
to avoid the expression of unfavourable opinions,
not warranted by the Treaty itself? He therefore
put it sincerely and respectfully to the Noble Lord,
whether, even for his own -case, it would wet be .4-
visable to produce an accurate statement of the sub-
stance of the Treaty ?
Mr. METHUEN denied that he had given any
abstract applause to the conduct of Lord Castlereagh
this instance it received his full approbation:—
[Hear, hear !]—lle thought he might fairly accuse
the other side of the House with giving abstract and
systematic opposition to every measure of Govern-
ment, under whatever circumstances it might be
adopted.—[llcar, hear
Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that for the
reasons he had before stated, he should decline lay-
ing the substance of the Treaty before the House,
unless a distinct motion were made upon the subject;
and then he could state his opinion, and adopt such
conduct as he might deem expedient.
Lord MILTON begged to know on what day
the Treaty in question had been received by Govern.
meet ?

PROPERTY TAX.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER
brought in the New Property Tax Bill. On the
question that it be rend a first time,
Mr. J. P. (;RANT said, he should oppose the
measure on the second reading, and not on the pre-
sent occasion, after what had just passed in the
Hone. - -

_Mr. GRENFELL explained the vote he gave in
the minority on the former night, which was only
intended to produce the delay of a fortnight as pro-
posed by Mr. Brand. The events that had recently
occurred induced him to think that such a measure
was necessary, under two or three modifications:—
l. Thet the Property Tax should be rendered more
equal, by lessening the burden upon persons whose
incomes were from 2 to 5001. a year.-2. That
incomes derived from trade or professions should
not pay in the same proportion as incomes de-
rived from fixed property.-3. That some regula-
tions should be introduced to diminish the inquisito-
rial powers of the Commissioners on affairs of Taxes
in Somerset-place.
Mr. ELLIS supported the Bill, but recommended
that a Committee should be appointed to consider of
the fit modifications.

Lord CASTLEREAG II answered, that he should
be prepared to give every information on a future
day.

11Ir. BENNETT enquired whether that part of the
published copy were contained in the authentic do-
cument, in which the Allies were made to declare
that they would " bring to justice all such persons
as shall have joined, or may hereafter join, the
party of Napoleon ?" lie wished to know whether
that provision had been ratified by the British Go.
vernment ?

I Mr. GORDON was disposed strenuously to op.
pose the Bill, and called the recollection of gen-
tlemen to the assertion of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, that he would allow of no modifications.
I Sir JOHN NEWPORT declared his intention
! of dividing the House upon the first reading, in pur-
lguano, of his original determination.
Mr. BENSON bore testimony to the change of
sentiment in Liverpool in favour of the Prqperty
Tax. It gave Alitnsters no greater power, because
taxes to the same amount would have been raised by
other Bills, if not by that now before-the House.
Mr. C. WYNNE regretted the expenditure to
which we were exposed, but thought no other urea-
sure calculated to meet the difficulty.
I _Mr. BARING did.not.admit that any change halo
taken place in the public opinion on this Bill since
last year; but he was' walk* to allow that it might
be prudent to adopt it for one year.-1. Because the
machinery was already prepared.-2. Because it
would enable Government to act with that vigour
and decision which might put an end to a new war.
He wished the tax to be continued in• its prettiest
shape rather than allow the introduction of Modifica-
tions that might lead to making it permanent.
Mr. PONSONBY did not feel himself bound to
vote for the Property Tax, bemuse he had agreed to
the Address of the 7th April. He ridiculed the idea
of getting rid of the tie it the end of the year. All
experience showed, particularly the last American
war, that nothing was so: emir to begin, and few
things so difficult as to terminate war. t was idle •
to Suppose that this new war, in which we were
about to be involved, would sown be terminated'.
Alderman ATKINS thought the tax unequally
assessed. Lie was instructed by his constituents to.i
rote egoinst it, but he thought it, notwithstanding,
the best tax that could be found in a great emergency,
If properly Modified. He wished for a Committee,
with the understanding that intention to the particu-
lar descriptions of property Should be attended to.
He thought that upon a fair plurally COMmittee,
the landholders wobld aiine fir. i ':fitly and
hanMr. Wdiomely,,and tletet
SitlititjTbibituif* . • I'
. t* be ifllitte .'•

Lord CASTLEREAGH had no objection to state,
that that part nas decidedly incorrect —substantially
inaccurate.

Lord MILTON asked, whether this Ticaty was
in the hands of ;Ministers before the 7th of April,
the day ou which the Noble Lord bad obtained the
Address: . - •.- • _ .
Lord CASTLEREAGH-replied in the affirmative,
and added, that he was prepsred to contend that
there was nothing at all inconsistent between the
terms of the Address and of the 'Treaty.
Mr. TIERNEY regretted that the Noble Lord
had any objection to produce the substance of the
Treaty.
Lord CASTLEREAGH—I have not stated that I
bad any objection'.
Mr. WHITBREAD—Does the Noble Lord
mean to say, that if a motion be now made In will
produce it ?
Lord CASTLEREAGH answered, that he could
not undertake to lay it before the House upon an
immediate motion, if not in courtesy to his Col-
leagues, whose opinions he wished to receive, but in
courtesy also to the Representatives of other Powers,
whose interests were alike affected.
Mr. WHITBREAD regretted tat &O.=
Lord had not wed the time of HOOK by,
making such a statement. Was he now swami.
stand, that if tt motion were made on Illooldey fir the
substance of the Treaty, it would meet with tMcotrti-
pli;ace of tbe.Noble Lord ? If so, he would of conelie'
move for it, and then the subject would be tairlieed
clearly before. the House.
Lord CASTLETtIitiMIX 'ski, that be imdd. enter
into no compact.. He was..stmritoot tie Hon.
Member should so long rebiiMbi the-dmi,