The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-10-21 00:00:00

fl.

?he Cause for wAicii HAMPDEN fell in the Field, and SYDNEY died on the Scaffold.'

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1:0::NE OF LORDS.

DEFENCE OF• THE QUEEN.
(Continued !root the First Etl;tion of Yesterd ty's Stamm a a.)

The Earl of Li% EltrOUL suggested that only those
part?. of ;he lett..rs whir!' related to Ras eil;'s tisiption to
411.1411 he proil.t:e.l t and !ha they sbW.I be
sealed op. With these modification. he shoe or
olsject the proposal fora produ.tiou of the tor,.
respondence.
Earl litts assented.

The Earl of lass entos repeated the ohjoetiOns
hail before urged against the proposed course of pro-
reeling.. lie most strongly saki !rift' to the principle
here, ur iu asty irse, of calling on the agent. lu All
cases too, he was most Alvin t, the appoiottsseut of
secret coewitittees, finless they weep particularly sad
indispensably required. 1;la objections remained un-
altered: otri if he phoold ird nu Noble Lord to en-
tertain his own feelings en the subject, be would
divide singiy.—(.l laugh.) •
The Eatil of 31.1NVENR rose f no the gallery, and
stattd, that as he had made up his and to vote for any
motion which should leave fur its object an inquiry into
the circumstances recording the absence of Itastelli, he
world, with the permission of the blouse. state, in a very
few words, the reasons which had tin fight him to that
determination. lle thought then the character of the
House hod heels comproatised by tl e absence of this
witness.—(lleor, he tr.)—and, as the t cosmos which hod
been offered, e'tplanatory of that Amu ce used iit.t satin-
tied him, he ft lit their Lordships should I,r is
the fullest in,lniry into all Ilr.• eircums assees attetel.iuz
this apparent'y nnarronntolOe trans* ihoi. Indeed he
' conceited such an inquiry necessary fo the -ake of 31r.
Powell's clsaracter. lie had taken the Away id' !re,u's
ing their Lord-hip• on the su:'..]ect, ft: lie Pore I Cist a
refusal to invite inquiry, woliht leave all I u,leltllk stigma
on their character.—(The "...Isle lord was warmly
cheered from all ports 1.1 !lie 'louse.)
laird SOMERS sail, that ttpoll trinriple he tens an
enemy to Itills ut Pains and Pen:, ti st for be feared their
introduction would hats. a leu.i•u.y in ilestrff our rules
of law, our anclent tt.age, and e5...1.% port of out (*onset-
tution a hich most be held dear But hosing ex-
pressed himself on the general principle of this proceed-
ing, lie could not hut express his strohgest tkqest ai,kipst
'The lityltig. tCriiish7etllll4l mosiseipotnnt. 'Trwair
in his opinion dangerous in the extreme, isaffaild ren•
der it unsafe fur evert. man to transact-4AP ordinary
..Hai r+ with an agent. •lit allaiti.on to the observation of
the Noble-Earl who hail last a • lien, Isis Lerd.iiii, rt!t-
+erred, that( the reasoning Or that Noble Earl was very
inisatisfactory to him (Lord S.) He iniJerstood the
Nohle Earl to ninvey none imputation on •t&- wit tiros,
Anil he curlhl no' are that any imputation *if warranted
by three circumstances.

The E.,rl of Al.txvLes, in explanation, begged to oh.
serve, that the Nottle Lord had itti,nriderstood WM. He
had not the witness in his contemplation, sal it was
solely upon the absence of the witness that he intended
his observations to apply.
The 1:4r1 of this moon spoke from the rallery.. He
would, in general, he the last man in that 11•151 Se to Con-
sent to the exposure of a correspondence between prin-
cipal and agent, for he considered sack an exposore
IltrulJ be resinous to the interests of slciely. liut the
circumstances attendant on the present transaction were
so very peenliar, that notsviisstanding the criticiser of
Mr. Powell. which lie was disposed to consitler as true.
he consislerei further ingstiry as absolutely necessary.
lie should consent to the appointment of a Secret Com-
mittee, and lie trusted that that Committee would not no
beyond the limits to he marked out by the order of the
House. Indeed, he was sure they would not, for their
doing so would be a dereliction of their duty. and a vio-
lation of all the ties of honour.

Lord HARDWICILIC said, he concorred most fully with
what bad fallen from the Noble Earl (Harewomi) who
spoke from the Gallery.
Earl timer, with reference to the argument of the
X .Sle Lord on the cross bench (Lord Somers) observed.
that the particular ciremisstanees of this case folly war-
ranted the inquiry, and that it was impossible this ease
could ever lie considered as a precedent. The {louse
hail hot one alternative. Their Lordships must either
institute their inquiry, or consent to sutler an
~h,froction of the cause of justice to pass
(Bear, hear, heavy—Should the !louse tircimle on the
latmer course, frosts that moment toe proceedings might
to he !ooppril altogether, and to whatever imputation be
might expose I • elf, he should utmost certainly, in that
race, propose to suspend the whole proceedings --•
(Cheers.)— -To meet the suggestion of the Noble P.arl
f ili" opposite gallery (Ilarewootl) he shomml.l swore
as an amend:mon upon the motion sit his Noble Friend
" that Mr. Powell he directed to prombree, before a
Secret Committee of that noose, copies of all rorret-
posulence which had taken place between him and Col.
Browne relative to the omission of Itastelli to Milan; amid
that the Committee should have power to examine Mr.
Powell on the subject of that Ramon, and to compare
those copies with the originals.
The Earl of Demytomn:mmasoas: thought that the !louse
were so placed as to be imperatively called upon to
snake further inquiry into this transaction. This
cotuuti:tee was not called for with any view of con-
tradicting Mr. Powell's evidence, but fur the purpose
of curruboratin; it by a reference to the original let-
ters o; Colonel Itrowne respecting Rastelli, which Mr.
Powell admitted he had in•his possession. There was
no breach of confidence in this; for the Haase were
the original employers of Mr. Powell; be was their
confidential agent. It was they, therefore, not Mr.
Powell, hat were responsible for whatever disclosure
might arise no the inafter. It *as impossible for
the Itonse to do tat justice' which the Mfr re/wired,
without upe,ging their doors as wide as visible fir
the diselosore of trolls.
Lord Lams sieWNE 'lards this hs4 ire objection
`to afire; to the ataieuiltimit frie9d, as it


~r

appeared that by it all opinions would be united with
respect to this important and delicate subject. There
(lid appear to be a mystery hanging. on it, and from
time beginning the house would remember he was an
advocate for a Secret Committee. He beard with great
pleasure what hail fa!' .n from a Noble Lord in the
gallery, and he luyed in an affair of this delicacy every
Noble Lord mho tot4,ht be on the Courrnittee, would
pursue the line of vonduct pointed out by that Noble
Lord. He hoped every Noble Lord who should be on
that C mutter would abstain from seeking any in-
formation, except what related to the mission of
•

The EArl of I, tuncunALE said, that if they decided
upon zoing into this inquiry at all, it was, of course,
tirces‘;ay they should go into it effectively: but his
difficulty was how they could` confine their C7C41111114•
ilOil of the originals to sr ♦erification of the extracted
parts 'licitly relating to liastelli's business. I:e could,
nol fire Lou• the whole of the correspondence could he
opened without going further than he thought the
house ought to go consistently with the principles of
justice.

Earl fiery hoped, In explanation, to be allowed to
say, that the documentary evidence was called for to
snppurt what Mr Powell ha:l sai4l at their Lordships'
Bar. The only power which the Committee required
In furtherance of this object was to have reference to
the originals for the purpose of verification. If in
their Inquiry they should see any necessity of calling
fur fresh powers, they ,rust return to the House to
to call for that augmentation. _ _ _

I,ortll'AnNsavoN thought that instead of opening the
Joor to a lateral line of conduct, they were ou t.r con-
trary pursuing a directly contrary course. They were
calling in Mr. Powell to plead his: own rase. then
shonl.l flow appoint a Seeret Committee at all' Ile
I.new tint, lint Mr. Powell w.es Cie only 'member of it. So
long as he had the power of nuking estracts limn what
the Committee hall not the power of intspeeting, they
were doing nothing at all in appointiox each a C 'l-
- By taking such a step, they were neither giving
satisfaction to themselves nor doing jnstire to t'. • Q,nerts.
They were scrupulotts tor admitting the whole of these
papers to she I Momittest I but had they lust referred the
whole of whet- papers to a Secret Commit:oc ':-.-(llear.)
1%.3. it the per.ost whose conduct they wire to inveAi-
,g3:r that x 34 to he trie person to soppli, them v. h mat-
tor for that purpose ? thorniest t at her Majesty's
l'onn.e! ougsst to be called in and beard on the subject.

The Marfinis of I.ausivowuz thohght that the Com-
Id hail nothing to do with this question. It was the
nett-lave of this question that was to be tried. They
were to see whether Mr. Powell made a fair stateuient.
And if it appeared that the Committee were in danger
of tieing deceived. they had the power of applying to
that Muse fur the liere:try 111eR154 of etiectin‘ the
ohreet-thw Howie had in clew in appointing that t•bm-
initter. The object was to elicit truth, and the a hole
truth.

Lord C.sus.sarost said that his argument still re-
mained untouched. For it seemed from the argnment
14 his Noble and Learned Frien I. that the Committee
had this power. lie toi,n,...ht that if the tot:induce
proceeded in this manner. Cory w.iiil,l do nothing.
Lord final. said, the wily to be trial was,
whether Mr. Powell was M11i1111111..11 iu his state tient
by the e•irresponilettre. IJe Ilia MI: mean to insinuate
,any thin!, to Mr. Powell, hut if any thing shout I ap-
pear improper in his eiondurt, the committee had
the power of redressing it. .ktid, therefore, the objec-
tion .if his Noble anti Learned Viicti:l was nnfintaided.

The Marquis of LA :•flon% YV. with reference to
what had fallen from his NoLle Friend who spoke last,
iikeried, that what the Mouse was discussing had MO•
thing whatever to do with counsel. (Hear, hear.)
it r.•;:s merely an inquiry within the (louse respecting
the violation of one of its min orders. (fkar.) The
intended proceeding was not either a negative one,
hat rather of an affirmative rhararter ; fur it was to
show whether the evidence given at their bar was cor-
rect, according to the documents referred to in that
evidence. It was, in fact, to pursue the cods of jus-
tice by rettinz at the truth, the whole truth, as con-
nected with a particular part of this transaction.
(Hear.)
The Eart of Caimans -lot said, in explanation. that
what he complained of was Mr. Powell's having to
make the extracts instead of the Committee.

The House then .1 the que,4tio:i. When we
were again admitted, we found that there was a majo-
rity iu favour of the amenanient, It!•2 to ;9.
The CHANer.m.mt ordered Counsel to he caned in.
The names of the Committee appointed arc as fol-
lows:

1.014 President Earl of llarrowby.
Earl (;re), Earl Rossi) n,
Nlanyers, Lord Arden,
Lord Ellenhoruttgli, Lord Lauderdale,
Lord Eiodatte, L,.rd Itu+r,
Lord Insiterit, Marquis Liosilowne.

The l'ounsel bei,:g called in, the l'hAneellor inform-
e4l them 4,f tl:r decision of the flour% When,

Mr. Bonen ll.lm said he should troulele their Lordships
with very few words. It inns: be fresh in the recollec-
Aron. of their Lordships that a person of the name of
Kastelit had been removed nut of the country under
most strange circumstances, and that in consequence of
this 1111 l °al. considerable obstruction had been thrown
In the way of her Majesty's defence. Ile need not enter
into particulars. In consetpeence of that transaction
the agent for the prosecution had been examined at the
Her. Now what he had I bly to submit to the House
was, that. it was essential to the defence of his cliff •it, to
pnrstee this enquiry farther ; that it became necessary
for the safety of the pnblic and of all parties. If there
n-as nothing wrong in the transaction, the parties con-
rerne.l. ibs far from having an objection, should rather
he anxious for an investigation. He therefore reonested
percussion •o piersue the examination of Mr. Powell, and
if that WAS denied, he was of opinion that the whole
procerliser was nugatory. He had nothing more to
trouble their Lordships with.
The Loan Cetswext.Loi, after a panse—f have no in-
sportiest from the House to give you an answer.
laird I;AR:isotopy said, that he bad already expressed
an opiniOn that the parties in that transaction had bees
goilty Of a sudsy ctifpable obstruction in the way of the
prarerdtog. tipear trlifels ground, he would move, with-