The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-07-06 00:00:00

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had realise pleasure in stating that the measure fot
giving employment to the Irish poor was attended with
the very best effects. All the iecomiss he had received
on the sublect were more satisfactory than genid have
been anticipated, and be hoped that the exertions of
Government, aided by the liberal subscriptions which
were now going on, would soon carry the people of Ire-
land. thrnugh all their difficulties.
Mr. D. BROWNE expressed his satisfaction at the
=ensures taken by 0 meat for the relief of Ireland.
He'could not but remark that provisions were remark-
ably cheap at the present moment in Ireland, and he
was therefore inclined to think that the distress of that
country hail been exaggerated.
Mr.l7. FiTztigliAbD was much surprised at the ob-
servation of his Right Hon. Friend. The circumstance
alluded to was an aegravation of the misery of I reland, In
the very county, represented by his Rt. Hon. Friend, the
accounts of the distress were enough to make the heart
sicken. It was impossible for any to read the state-
ments daily coining in and sitbenticated, without being
convinced of the lamentable extent of the distress in
Ireland.
Mr. RENNET said he objected to the principle of the
motion altogether. If the Gentlemen who subscribed
le the Petition wished a handsome monument crested,
ivy were rich enough to pay for it themselves. He
Would not agree to the taking of a shilling of the public
sheney for such a purpose, and be should give the mo-
tion every possible resistance.
Mr. H GURNEY opposed the motion.
Sir R. WILSON wished to know whether any esti-
mate of the expense had yet been made oat.
Lord BINNING replied in the negative.
Mr. HUME said, be should oppose the motion, which
Lord BINNING said he should withdraw for the present.
On the motion that the SPSAYSII should leave the
Chair,
Mr. WESTERN rose, and said the subject he was
about to bring under the con.ideration of the house was
use of greater importance than the going into a Com-
mittee of Supply. The lion. Member was proceeding
(as we understood) to speak respecting the state of the
currency, when
The Marress of LONDONDERRY interposed, and
after requesting the Hon. Member to accept his apology
for the interruption, begged to appeal to his own feel-
Inge whether he would introduce the house tout wide a
field of discurion as was necessarily connected with the
resolution which he (the Marquess) presumed the Hon.
Member intended to submit to the bootie. The lion.
Member must be perfectly aware that there was not an
individual in the house who could be prepared (without
notice) to enter into thr subject ; and that it would in
fact be altogether a surprise upon the house.
Mr. WESTERN said that it was perfectly competent
for any Member to bring forward a motion without no-
tice ; though it was usual, for the purpose of convent.
ence and arrangement, to precede motions of importance
by notice. The motion he intended to submit to Ike
house bad been under notice for a fortnight before Wed-
nesday last. On that day there was no house; and lie
had therefore conceived himself justified In ting to
the established practice of the house. At the same time,
be had no wish to interrupt the public business ; and if
the house would give him an order day for his proposed
motion, be would not insist on the priority of which he
might now avail himself.

An irregular conversation followed between the Hon.
Member, the Noble Marquess, and several Members, as
to the day which could be most cobveniently named,
when Tuesday next was ultimately fixed.
The house then resolved itself into a Committee.
The house having then resolved itself into a Commit.
tee of Supply,
Mr. ARBUTHNOT sail that bobs he world pro.
pose the resolution of Supply for the Army Extreordl-•
narks, he would make a•fmr preliminary observations..
In consequence of what bed happened in the house last•
Session, be bad undertaken to make the accounts of the
Extraordinaries of the Army as clear and intelligible as
possible. The sum of 1,541,000:. bad been drawn for
by the Commissariat abroad in the last year. But
though that sum was drawn for, the whole was not ex-
pended, and the Commissariat was obliged to account
for the difference. Thus was a balance of 115,000. in
favour of the present year. Last year the &nisi voted
1,000,0001. for the Army Extraordinaries. He had to
propose only 700',000/. for the current year. By a late
arrangement with the East India Company, there was a
large saving to the public. He would not then go into
any farther preliminary observations, bat was ready to
give explanation which any Hon. Gentleman required.
The question was then put by the Chairman of the
Committee, that a sum not exceeding 700,0001. be grant-
ed to his Majesty to pay the Army Extraordinaries of
the year 1822, with the exception of the force in Ireland.

Mr. HUME admitted that the estimate came before
the Committee in a very improsed state ; but the cir-
cumstances it disclosed showed, in his opinion, that
further improvement was still practicable. The pre-
sent vote ought to be for that which could not come
under any particular head of expense. It was princi-
pally for the difference between the revenue and the,
expenditure of the colonies, sea therefore the particu-
lars of the revenue ought to be given. The House In I
ibis respect had not its usual constitutional controul
over the money which it voted. The money was ex-
pended under the controul of the Council; but this
was not the proper mode of expending it; he believed
it was one which the House, when it voted the money,
never intended to sanction. At Malta and the Cape,
for instance, enormous establishments were kept up;
and these were paid for by bills drawn In same some-
Ilan of 100,0001. each, without any account (at
least without any which CIAO before the House) of
the items composing that sum. He should propose
the entire abolition of one part of this enormous expense
—he meant the Colonial Agency. The Right Hon.
Gentleman who held the office of Commissioner of

Woods and Forests, held an office of 1,2001. a-year, as
Agent for Ceylon. The duties of these Colonial Agents,
as they appeared by the Returns on the table, were very
; one of them was to provide and send out to the
Colony such articles as were necessary for the public
service. This might be easily performed by the Com-
missariat. These Colonial Agencies were useless offices;
he was determined to oppose their continuance, as it
was a perfect mockery to keep up offices, the duties of
which might be performed by other departments. They
led to multiplicity of accounts, and to the accumulation
of large balances in the bands of public officers, which
was inconvenient and dangerous to the public service.
But, independent of this, the charges themselves were in
his opinion considerably too high. The lowest appoint-
ment, be believed, was 5001. a year. it, however, all
the accounts were distinctly laid before the House, he
should object to many other appointments. lie should
object, for instance, to the appointment of eight In•
specters of Militia for the lonian Islands. where, lie
understood, there was no militia to inspect ; the people
having been disarmed by the Governor. These Inspec-
tors were each paid 3931. a year. The Noble Marquess
had staled that every unnecessary expense had been re-
duced; sad he (Mr. Hume) should be much gratified to
hear him state who; was the necessity for keeping up
these offices. In the same manner lie would beg the
attention of the Committee to the expenses incurred at
the Cape of Good Hope. The allowance originally-
made to the Governor was but• I,10W.; now it was no-
minally 10,0001, s year; but in fact it could not be taken
at less than 25,0004 a-year, if the large establishments

allowed to the Governor were taken into the calculation.
He had a Colonial Beeretary at 3,600/. a-year; another
Secretary at 1,5001. a-year (who held other offices besides)
and several subordinate officers; and all this in a colony,
the revenue of which is not more than 116,0001. a-year.
Surely, if we paid the recess 'if intpeadttorei we Darin
to have the particulars of the revenue. But is this Co-
lony there was an Auditor of LOOM myear ; a Post
Captain at 5001, a Comptroller; at 1,0001.; in short the
Estahlialiment was as lung as a tailor's bill. The whole
revenue was fritted away in allowances of this details-
don, nine or ten thousand pounds might be saved is the
expellees at the Cape alone. At the Mauritius the ex-
pen-es were 'lipoid as tench es those at the Cape; and
yet the rt venue was but hidalar:l. Which, hewever. was
enough to meet the ex: wares if the colony wore will ar
ranged. 'i here• was considerable loss sustained from
public defaulters ; an instance of which was to be fined
in this very colony in the ease of Theocioredooks. whose
defalcation might to be made good by 'Whatnots, as they
had neglected their duty in nat taking security ter the
faithful performance of hi. trust. There was at this
colony the numl rewire of Auditor and Dimity's Pay-
master at 16410/. aie4B an Assistant at fire bemired
pounds, and Clerks wi h proportionate salaries. The
aopenee. however, did not stop here; for there was a
,Collecsor of the inland revenue at 154101. a-year, (with as
allowance of two and a half per cent. on the sum he col-
lected.) a civil engineer. with as assistant, EC4. Thiee
had been much clamonr made about the redudass of
few clerk*, at small salar'es ; bat this shewed a disposi-
tion to ezonomise by trifles, and to expend by wholesale.
He recommended the Committee to reduce the present
sate by IGO thousand pound*. and leave Ministers to
effect the nee y realm tion-. The Hon. Member then
referred to the expenee incurred for Jamaica, the Cape.
Ilihraltar, Sierra Leone, and Heligoland, which he COM
tended were ion too large a scale. He then adverted to
the expense incurred for Canada, trlsirls, he said, ought
to maintain its own Staff. Tbe expeneethe tht Staff was
10,4961., and 10,392/. fur the Colunritsariat. The cir-
cumstance of the C i.striat rusting almost as much as
the Stall was unprecedented. There was a charge too.
he observed, of rto less than 5,9001. fir postage.—
lie had lately seen some one from Ilerluce, who as-
enrsl him that one half of the Staff might be dis-
pensed with, and one half of the Commissariat totally
unnecessary. lie contended, therefore, that if there
were a real desire to economise the public money,
reductions would have been toads in this quarter.—
lie was convinced that if the proper reductions were
made. with proper management, 500.060 f, lustre.' of
700,000/., would be quite enough for the Colonies.—
Having disposed of the Colonies, be Iwggerl to direct
the attention of the Right Ilan. Secretary to the extra-
vagant expenditure of public money in Jersey and
anernsey. Fur those islands there was a charge in the
Estimates off:LIM. which certainly was too lunch. He
maintained that the house ought to have regular and se-
parate Estimates for these Islands, with their Revenue
fairly put down. Ile should like to know from theChan-
cellar of the Exchequer what was the turiv.ing of the
charge of 9001. for the management of a Butch Loan.
He did not know what we had to do with taking on our-
selves the payment of the interest of this Loan, which
he really believed was originally raised for carrying on
war against this country. The lion. blembercomplain-
lid of the classification of the different items of expen-
diture comprised in these estimates. Many items that
appeared in them ought properly to have appeared in
the ordinary estimates; and no doubt the object of
placing them as they were was that votes might betaken
for the same charge is both the *edit:Aries and wrier-
dinaries. He wished to see the whole of our WINO Iss-
elia Colman pissed upon a more Biwa footfige.. It the
British Cosedtation were fully and fairly adnamistered
to therm, they would be found to thrive more dm at
present. sod e better able to support themselves. He
did not intend to move at once for that reduction in the
whole vote which he thought would be justifiable, but
until be knew if there was a disposition on the part of
Hon. Members to support him, he should COOOlai him•
self with moving to diminish the vote to a smell amount.
The reduction be wished to make was in the exorbitant
salaries paid to Colonial Agents, whose duties were few
and unimportant, compared with what they received for
undertaking them. The rates to which he desired to
reduce the different Agents were as follows :—The Agent
for Ceylon, 1,200/.. Cape of Good Hope, 6001., Malta.
6001.. the Mauritius, 5110/.. the linden Islands 3001.
This would make a redaction from the original vote of
nearly 60001., end he moved therefore as an amendment
that the vote be 694,023/. in place of 700,0001.
Mr. BARLIAM wished to ask whether the Hoe.
Member meant to give a constitatioa to all the Coln-
Dies indiscriminately? It appeared to him, that in
the case of poor Colonies. this grant would be consi-
dered no boon, as they would have to maintain their
own Governments.

Mr. HUME said he adverted to the maintenance of
Demurer& and Trinidad which cost much money,
which be contended would be better employed in be-
ing used towards the support of the rest of the West
India Colonies. He wished to see &shim. De
and Trinidad with the same government as the other
Island..

Mr. BARHAM could not sot see how the pried.
plea of the British Constitution, being -extended to
Trinidad according to the Honourable Member's mo-
tion, would put one farthing into the Treasury of that
Island.
Mr. WILMOT rose to defend the original
The Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Hume) seemed to
have mistaken the sense of the vote, for the reductleas
which he proposed had nothing to do with the Ater
Rxtraordioaries. The Hon. Member had also viewed
the Colonies in a wrong light. It was not fair to cal-
culate all the expense arising out of their 0 scot
as a dead weight, for when the Hon. Member was
drawing up the account at all, he ought to set off profit
against loss, and so strike a balance. Now, the reve-
nue derivable from the Colonies 11.15 27t1,000L a year.
which ought to be deducted from the expense of go-
Toning them. The Hon. Secretary then proceeded
to defend the Colonial Agents. He contended that
they bad important duties to perform, and they were
paid by the Colonies. He was persuaded the Colonies
world not consent to their reduction. He next dr
fended the Inspectors of the lonian Militia. It was
true the militia was sot embodied. but these officers
had other duties to perform, for which they would
have been paid otherwise. Without such otheers, too.
it would have been much more difficult to govern the
islands. He contended that the Agent to the looian
islands kept up a correspondence with thesis states,
and could not, therefore, be dispensed with. He
should be but little surprised if the Hon. Member de-
clared his intention of dispensing with Colonial
Agents altogether. With regard to their salaries, a
Commission was about to proceed to Ceylon and the
Mauritius, to 'squire, amongst other things, what re-
dactions might be made in the salaries of officers
there. The flop. Member had said that officers
might be procured who would do the duties of the
several departments snore cheaply. This remiedrl
him of the boasts held out in the riots at Stockport,
that a Chancellor of the Exchequer world be gat to