The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-02-15 00:00:00

ti5Mllll.

LONDON, MONDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1819

" The Ceres for which Ifeesesse foil fir as MA end S died 4111 this ocalfold !"

In l'oncleaine, Mr. Hoblioise hoped be should be
pet to nn further torture on this subject by his 'pe-
tioles. Ile was of oo party *balmier, and was of
*pinion, with that great men, Horne Tooke, that
Illtrety man's Is was safest in his own keeping.—
lie knew he shoold be assailed for this esplictiness.
but be looked for the support of the Elettors, and
theirs only. The People had brought him these, and
at their bidding alone would he retire.—(Lord or
plasm.)
Mr.ificuohsow then came forward anti said, mist
ten minutes before he had lint eouresinsol the most
'disuse' idea of °Glen himself to their n.tice, oral it
was only in consequence of the letter part of the ad.
dress of Mr. Ilishhouse that he did au. Ile would
take upon himself to say, eitheet fear of contradic-
tion, that it was east such an adage's as the People of
Westminster expected to hear, or sock en omega they
had a right to raped. Mr. &Moose bad, indeed,
affected to give an eaplanation of his principles ; but
he most confess, that he for one did nut comprehend
them; end be would venters to assert, that they
*erased' es had before been propounded in
in any popular assembly. If he understood any
thing of his meaning in his declaration of his prin-
ciples, they were in direct opposition to those which
Westminster hod alma's supported. Sir F. Burdett
had brought into the /loose of Common. a Bill in
f Universal %Maga, and sonless they re-
termed another Representative holding the same prin-
ciples, they would not do their duty. Sir Francis
had also declared in a public Meeting at the Crown
and Ascher, that Major Cartwright was the Attest
person to represent them, though he thought the ob.
jest of his return enattainahle. That, however, 111411
matter of opinion, which might saltily be dispated.—
He trusted the childish idea, that the Worthy Major
was too old for the duties of Parliament, bad long
been esploded, and, therefore, he should not waste
a moment in distessirg that objection ; bet he
would insist that it was their dote to elect a man
whom they knew, end whose clearly defined prin.
dples had been so long before them, in prefer-
ence to a young mad, almost an entire 'ironer, and
who had that day made a declarative of principles
which wore perfectly suietellibible.--{Great
clossorr.)—lie would defy any man present to mg-
plebe what were the principles of Mr. Hoblsouse,
though they had beard him read his declaration. He
believed he so far uedetrsood him, however. that be
isieht safely assert he was au enemy to Universal
Sarno. Was net this the fact ?—(Off, of I
he had mistaken Mr. Hobbosse, he hoped he would
set him right. To Annual Pilrliaments he had elan
avowed himself equally adveree. On these tee great
questions he had certainly avowed himself manfully ;
and if they now elected Mm, they would only have
themselves to blame, for the the disappointment
which must infallibly ensue. He world give him
credit for sincerity on these two points ; and he
would repeat, the he did not proclaim Bach prin.
ciples es Westminster understands and expects,
or as Sir Francis Berdett holds ; and it would
be the highest absurdity to send two men to Par.
limners, of opposite principles.—(Loud cries of
off, off !)—Ale stood there as an Selector of West-
minster, end had a right to deliver Ma opinon, and
he would maintain that right, in defiance of uncles.
ing clamour; so that the more patience they mani.
rested in hearing what he had lousy, the sooner wield
they heteileved.—( Laughter, and of, of!) —Were
the People of Westminster to have a Reformer for
their Representative, or were they not ? He under.
stood another Candidate was to be proposed, who was
said In he a Friend to Morin. Slr F. liardetit had
told them that this Gentleman was a Whig, and he
would no doubt talk to them about Reform ; for he
knew it was a subject on which all men were lgreed.
Sir Wm. Corti., and even Sir Murray Mazurell,
when they Cline to ask the suffrages of the People,
flow' came with Ike word Reform in their mouths.
Bat this was not sufficient. It was necessary
they should knew distinctly whet they meant by
Reform. liad Mr. Hobbes,* distinctly told them
what he meant ?—( Yes, yes; off, off )--Ile world
appeal to the Worthy Baronet who introduced him,
whether he had understood Mr. Robhouss's declare.
Sinn ? Mr. Pitt watt far more intelligible on the sub.
ject of Reform, though he afterwards deserted the
mese; fro men were of the same principles at the
middle, or the close of their public lives, as they
were at setting out. Major Cartwright, however,
stood so high in the estimation of the country, that
t• compare him with any other man, would be to
degrade him.—(Bravo, hisses, end off, off !)—Firm,
uniform, and consistent, be bad held on his way le
the greet work, without deviation or retentions. He
it was that had created that universal feeling of the
necessity of Reform which pervaded every county,
every town, sod almost every family in England.—
With respect to his bodily capacity to fulfill the duty
of their Representative, he could tell them, that
be, even now, was occupied the whole day and
greater part of the night in labouring for their bene-
fit. His powers were unimpaired, and folly equal
to the task; and even if be could not walk, it
would be their ditty to carry him into Parliament
on their shoulders—to place him in the midst of
that House which 'Hoard no merit to exist be-
yond Its own walla. Let him introduce his Bill
on that great and vital question in the face of it.
—lf that Bill should be found impracticable, or on
wrong principles, let it be rejected ; but ler them ts•
united now sod return him, if only for one S•ISIon,
that the question may have a fair trial. If Mr.
Hobbes', would now come forward and declare dia.
tinctly for Universal Suffrage, he would instantly
withdraw' Major Cartwright. The Nlsjor was at
least intelligible, and from him they might hive some-
thing esplicit and tangible; he wcu:d rtric:ade pith

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PAIGE 7D;

nominating him as a At person to'represirit them k
Parliament.
Mr. Bowie seconded this notoloStIott: It vas Is.
possible tor any one to delinestejitgrbe disfavor
of that escollent man, Maier CleN. no. bad
bees heroic them 45 yesrs as. poblid wan; *and foe

upwards of 50 years, he had been universally known
is an eacellant, 6011,4, and upright one. MeFc
Cartwright's great principle of 'Reform was this—
that map of the age of tt years, and unirt-is
potable with crime, shoo:41 lip entitled to tot. for
Members of Parliament. They also knaw clearly
his sentimens on Annual P.irliatnnots, ;IA to those
twalloaento be bad never yet fcunti any reasonable ob-
jection.
Mr. George Limb then tame forward, supported
by Mr. Ja was MACDONALD' when,afrerpaesior an en-
sombre% onon the meats with. man whose lamentable
death had been the cause of their sasembling that
day, Mr. Macdonald said, the Electors mould Ind
all they cosid desire In the Candidate he proposed,
since he was ready to adult it to be in his resole.
lion to tread underiatingly in the path of that great
man whore loss they all deplored. In hint (Mr.
Lamb) they would find an intrepid Hurter of their
rights and liberties, a zealous and judicious Re-
former of all abuses, and a provisos' of that pobitc
integrity which he had always admired in his great
predecessor. With the feelings that ha now proved,
recollecting, as be did, those with which be had lost
appeared on those Hastings, he was little disposed to
advance any thing that might provoke unnecessary
controsersy, and he should therefore conclude by
proposing to the Electors, for their choice, his friend
the Hun. George Lamb, tu represent them in Patlis-
went.

Mr. EVANS added his 'Palmitin, to the merits end
virtues of Sir S. Hominy, and after recommending Mr.
Lamb as a persers who would assert their rights in
Parliament, he said, the Major had been called the
Father of Reform; they might have called him its
grsed•father, or great.graoci.father ; be •as old
enough to merit either appellation, sod unfor-
tunately too old to perform those duties which
were required from • R•preeentative of the City
of Westminster in Parliament. In speaking of
the other Candidate, he desired to be under-
stead, as not meaning to say any thing against Ua
private character ; he would spook of him merely at
a public man. They had bees told of Mr. Hob-
house's splendid talents. nit bow, be would ask,
bad those talents been exercised ? He had used
them only to detract from the glory of his country-
men. Nothing, he (Mr. Evans) 'solemnly declared.
week] bate brae& him forward that day, but the
French—the revolutionary principles, of which he
(Mr. Hobhoese) had appeared the advocate. All
those be had the honour to address, all Earope, bad
admired the glory won by the battle of Waterloo.—
Ail the nations of the Continent, even the French
themselves, admired the conduct of the Dike of Wd•
lington on that great day ; and the humanity with
which the victors treated the wounded who fell into
their hands, had been the anal jr.ct of generii praise ;
jet for that brilliant triumph, Mr. Hobbes', and his
friends had been able to hod no better maw thaw
" arum of St. John."—Olcar, hear I)

Mr. Hosnous:.- denied the midi of this statement,
and concluded by declaring, that if Mr. Lamb shosld
be returned to Parliament, he would be found the
Advocate for the rights sod liberties of the People,
and a friend to the Freedom of the Press.
Mr. LAX. said he was sensible of the importance
of the duties which the Electors bad now to perform.
He desired not to be compared to the person they had
lost, but with those who now presented themselves
to claim their support and countenance. His opi.
aloes he could prove had ever been friendly to
liberty, which be bad favoured to the estent of
his limited means; and his claims, he. therefore,
thought, were equal to those of Mr. Hobhouse.--
He then noticed the objections which had beets
made against his being put in nominatian. ft was
said that such a proceeding wet improper. because
Mr. Hobhosse had been put in nomination three
months ago at a Meeting in a room which was not
capable of receiving one-third of the Electors of
oWestminster, bet which, nevertheless, took spot, it.
self to designate the coarse which ought to be per.
seed, in order to fill up the vacancy which had oc.
cowed. Ile bad bung back till the very last mo-
ment, is the hope that some individual would have
presented himself, whose merits were more nearly
equal than his own, to those of the distinguished man
whose loss they had to supply. Had such a person
appeared, he would .soh rather have solicited their
Wimps in his behalf than in his own. This was
the cause of his coming forward so late, and the
difference between the Hon. Bert. and himself was
this—that he (tbe lion. Bart.) and Mr. ilobboete
thoeght, that the Election ought to have bees de-
cided three months ago, whereas be (Mr. I.lmb) was
ref opinion that it ought to be then decided by the
Electors, in the place where he was addressing them.
It was also obj.cted to him that he was a Whig Can-
didate: that title be held to be an honour. Mr. Fox
and Sir S. Remain, had been Whigs ; and he hoped
that he should deserve the title. He commented on
the Essay on Reform which Mr. liobhouse had read,
and which he compared to the prodactions of Major
Cartwright.
_ _ _

The names of the Candidates were then pot in
IlittesB3oll. The High Bailiff decided the choice of
tbe Electors to have fallen on Mr. llobhouse.
Mr. 1101110U91: IPII.IIIIOII 'kink/.
Mr. Evans then demanded a Pull on behalf of Mr.
Lamb, after objets
Mr. TstatmAta. urged the necessity of che•ing a
vigilant Member to represent site City of West-
minster, end instanced the Bill of Appeal, now be.
(^re the Common., which had been sweated Wesel

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V, S'

hi shies, without being oppnsod by n single Sr.
•tlor! It had originated with the Attornoy•Ge.
sere!, end that was cies* enough to create suspicion.
It alsoald be recollected au bed nameroes Lawyers
—bat onty one Sir Seeley! Itomilly. With net
gitsace is a Member of Perlseaseut, no good geoid
be obtained.

Mr. Hutn addressed the Electors. Ile pledged
himself that he would net trespass ion epos thtie
mention. Ile was asked why he did not stand as a
f'anditiate is the perseut Election. Ile did not think
GI to do so ; hot at the same time, if he saw any
shafting, sod that the Elntora of IYrsteninster want-
ed a Candktate, ht wool(' he ready to offer himself.
Appiesse.)—ila was determinvil to watch daring
the present Election, both for them sod himself.—
(.4i(alastre.)-11, was determined to take care that
the People of Westminster should hate no sham, Inst
• real Elocaisse. Theis were snail of them of the
laghmt respertahlitty whn thought, and justly
ihnoght, that it was an honour doe to Major Cart.
• to rol•r• him as their Representative.
Mr. Gall Jones spoke; after which the Meeting
broke up.

ANEMIC:4.

HOUSE OF RIiPRESENTATIVES,Ja..I2.

THE SEMINOLE WAR. Ste.

Mr. T. M. Nes.aon, freed the Coosmittee on Mi-
litary Affsr■, delivered the following Report :
" The C 'teatime on Military Affairs, to whom
was re►erred that part of the President's Wimp,
of the 17th November, 1818, which relates to the
proceedings of theCourt-Martial in the trial of Ar-
buthnot end Amb►ister, and to the conduct of the
war eft ninst the Seminole Indians, Report:—
" That after a perusal of the various ducomente
submitted to Congress, on the subject of the Semi-
nole War, they find much difficulty in separating
the responsibility of the Commanding Officer to hi.
Government, from the obligations of the United
Sates to Spain ; hat as the occupation and capture
of Pensacola and of St. Murk, are subjects of or-
iodation and correspondence at this time between
the two Governments, and a. the Committee ea For
reign !Watkins Bill probably consider this part of
the President's Message more immediately coenected
with !' air branch of the subj►ct, your Committee
will co.fine them,. rev in this Report to the trial and
executi.m of Alexander Arbethuot and Robert C.
Ambrister.

lees could these men (Arbuthnot and A•rbrister) be
considered liable to it, who wets acting with a power,
acknowledged and treated as a Igo aid lode.
voodoos by us.
YoarCommitte• beg leave to call your attention
particularly to the case of R. C. Ambrister, who,
•ft.r listing been sobjeted to • trial 'before • Court
which hod no cognizance or jurisdiction near the
offences charged against bins, was shot by order of
the commanding General, contrary t• the forme and
•sages of the grey, and without regard to the lad-
ing of that Court, which had been instituted as a
guide for himself.
Your Committee most here, in justice to Omit own
feelings, espies. their Wrens regret, that it has be.
come their duty to &wrote the conduct of OM,
who hes, on • former •ccasino, so eminently con.
tri►etad to the homer and defence of the natio•, as
has Major-General Jackson ; but the more elevated
the Minion, the more tallied the character of the in.
divides!, the more necessary is it. by a reasonable,
yet temperate repression of p•blie opinion, through
the constitutional organ, to prevent the recurrence•f
incidents at assignee with the principles of ear Go-
vernment and laws.

" Oo the Mitts April, I MR, a General Order is.
awed at homi.qsatters Fort St. blush's, by Major.
Gimeral ?acumen, girlies] by Colonel :;otrost Butler,
Adjotaot.Geweral, dewing • a sine's! Court-Mar-
tial, to moot at 12 o'clock, A. M. for the purpose of
inantigsui.le charges ethibited against A. Arbuthnot,
8.. C. Ambrister, and streh echo aro unilarly
Situated as may be brought before it.'
" Your Committee do out deem 1, necessary to
attach to their Report the proem...hogs of that Court,
as every Member of too Neese has bren furoish.
ed with several copies, to winch reforonco can be
owe.

Nor eau year Committee forbear incleding in
their strictures the Court Martial who sat on the
trial of A rbethoot sod Ambrister. A Cepert-Martlal
is a tribunal Invested with limited jurisdiction, hav-
ing for its guidance the agate roles of evidence which
govern Courts of Lite ; and yet Arbsthstet Is re-
fitted by the Gaut-Martial, before whom he was
tried for hie life, the benefit of the testievorty or
Ambrister, who had not been put upon his trial at
that time, and whose evidence would have bees re-
ceived by any Court of lA+ as legal, if not ere-
dible. Many other eseeptioos might be made to the
evidence recorded in theta proceedings; pertieelarly
to the question pat to the witness Humbly,
Do you believe the Seminoles would have com-
menced the holiness of murder end depreria-
Bon on the white inhabitants, had it not been at
the instigation of the Prisoner (Arbuthnot), and
a promise, on his part, of British protection ?'—
Answer. I do not belic..e thee would, without
they had been assured of Balkh protection' A
leading question is expressly forbidden to be tried by
a Court-Martial, by Macomb on Martial Ldw, and of
which the Court must have been apprised, as it Is a
work common in the army. and usually referred to
by every Court-Martisl whcn in Session; and the
question was calculated to elicit an espression of
opinion and belief hoes the witness, rather than a
statement of facto, spots which alone could the Court
act. Hearsay evidence iu a case of life anti death,
your Committee will venture to assert, was never be.
Cite received against the accused in any Court of
this country, and yet on the face of the record of the
idoceedings of the Coort-Martial, hearsay testimony
is admitted, which had bees received front an Indian,
who, if present, would not have been allowed to give
evidence himself."

After meters deliberation, your Committee beg
leave to submit the following Rwsolotion :
Resolved, 'l' kat the Rosie of Representatives cf
the United States disamweves the proceedings in the
trial and execution of Ales. Arhetboot and Rob. C.
Ambrister.

" Yost Committee can find no law of the United
States athorising a 'nal, before a Militery Coat,
for sock offences as aie allege.' against Arbuthnot
and Aentstister (ezcept an mach of the second chap
•s charge, Arbothnot with 4 acting as • spy: of
which pert of the charge the Court found him ' not
guilty), nor, in the opinion of your Committee, does
any usage militarise, or exigency appear from the
documents accompanying the Report of the Trial,
"which can justify the assumption and earthe of
power by the Court-Martial end the coornaoding
Genersl, on this occasion. It is admitted, as a
rale+ of the law of illations, that when the war Is
with a savage nation which observes no rules, and
never gives quarter, we may punish them in the per.
son of any of their people whom we may like (be-
longing to the number of thews), and endeavor by
this rig proceeding to force theft to Mr/1i the
laws of honianity. Whenever severity Is not abso-
lutely necessary, mercy becomes • duty. In vale
has your Committee sought among the documents on
the subject of the Seminole war for a shadow of toe-
testily far the death of the prisoners arraigned be.
fore the Court. The war was at an end to all to.
ants end purposes—the enemy's strong holds had
been destroyed—mar of them killed or taken pd.
soars. ad the remainder. a feeble.band, diapersed
and scattered in every direction. The Spanish fort
of St. Mak, which it was supposed (and no doubt
jai:4)lmi protected them, was also in our possession,
and so entirely was the war consiaered to ba Wed-
rated, that the Georgia Militia, ander Gen. Wass.
cock, had returned to their homes. Then where was
the absolrle pieces:lly which alone said warren( a
&paters from the Vll•feitO of that clemency of
which the United States hes heretofore an justly
boasted ?

66 Your Committee find, in the Generic! Order of
the 29th April, in which Gerretal Jackson orders the
illocution of Arbuthnot and Acebrieter, this remark-
able reason, intended as a justification of the execu-
tions, principally of Actinism'. bet applying le
tooth Arbechnot and Ambrirtet,:—• It .e an eels-
hlished principle of the law of nations, that any is+
divide., of a nation. making war against the citizens
of another nation. they being at peace, forfeits his
allegiance, end becomes an wallow and a pirate.' It
may be asked, by what system of interpretatioe (he
offences charged could be considered us piracies,
which imply, in common acceptatine, offences upon
the high seas, of which the Court could not amine
c..guissnee; end it is equally diliceit to nedentend
the propriety of the application of the term • eat.
13 w,' to the offenders—a term which applies sal, a•
the relations of individesis with th:ir sun Mem.
relents. It will not be pretended that La Fayette,
who volunteered his services in the cease of America,
in the war which established our independence, foe.
felled his allegiance, became en netts*, and subjected
himself to en ignonsinioes clued,, bad hr fallen or.
the hands of the English. Or can it-be believed that
one voles would be heard in jortification of Spain. If
she wore to esparto such of our countrymen as she
'nay make prisoners, while hefting in the armies of
the South American Patriots ? And if these cases
should not be considered of such a natures. In warrant
a resort to so severe. measure is bile they occurred with
a p►ople in a stets of revolution, and considered by the
parent countries to k W a Stele of rebellion, much