The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-06-29 00:00:00

'ATESMAN.

was net usual. When the How. Gentleman said vrls
could they not be paid whet the civil pensions were, he
heal to remark, that this was impossible. The number
of Military Officers on half pay were 10,000; and this
stated, it would be seen, that that which the Hon. Gent.
contemplated could not take place. The half-pay pen
slobs be heti no doubt would be paid on the 10th of next
month, and neither the Hon. Gent. nor any other person
need doubt the interest he took in their being promptly
haid since, ahem be cams to his office, they were paid
alf yearly, and it wks at his recommendation that the
present arrangements had been made fur paying them
quarterly.
Mr. E. WODEHOUSE presented a Petition from a
person of the name of Preston, a manufacturer of Rock
Salt at Yarmouth, praying relief.—Ordered to lie on the
table.

TRR BORDITCHYS.
Mr. 110811011 SE presented a Petition from certaii.
Inhabitants of Taunton, calling the attention of the
House to the unfortunate case of the Bowdiiches. He
briefly touched on some of the circumstances of the
case, and remarked, • melancholy error seemed to have
ran through the whole of it, in consequence of which
those tieurtunate persons had been subjected to much nu-
' merited punishment. He lamented the hardship of the
situ?
rase, but at the time was at a loss to see in what
way that bony? could interfere. The petition was or-
• dered to lie OR the table.
*Nyco/eras.
Sir L FEROCSSON presented a Petition from the
Corporation of Hasumermen in the Royal Burgh of
I
Dwaßmne's, attoinattMae Bill fur regulating the Scotch
bs.
A convei.sation arose on the merits of the Bill, in
which the LORD A ',SWATS, Mr. Humor, JIr.J. P. GRANT,
the Marquess of LONDONDEIRRT, Lord A. HAMILTON.'
mad Sir G. CLERK took part, after which the petition was
ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. MAXWELL presented a Petition from the Clerks
of the Peat? in Ireland against the Dread Jury Present-
meet IM$.-,-Ordered to lie on the table.
PITITION FROM MR. BORTRIWICK.
Mr. ABEIICROMBY presented a Petition from W.
M. Borthwick, with whose name the House were already
in some degree acquainted, from the statement which he
P (Mr. Abercromby) had made on a former night. This
Petition set forth the persecutions to which lie had been
, subjected, the meaner in which he bad been imprisoned
r and loaded with irons, on a charge of stealing property
which was proved to be his own ; but he was not aware
that the Peeition contained any fact which he (Mr.
Abercromby) had not stated on Tnesday, with the ex-
ception of his repositories having been broken open,
and his papers examined, whilst he was in custody. For
the wrongs be bad sustained he had received no coin
peusatien. He had received part of his expenses la one
instance, but he had bad no compensation for the inja-
ries of which be complained. He wished the House to
remember by whom these wrongs had been offered. He
had received them from the public as he had received
them from those who acted in the name of the Elegant'
on behalf of the public, and therefore be could apply no
where but to that House for redress. Ile did not bring this
Petition forward under very favourable circumstances,
that House having already decided that they would
not inquire into the merits of the ease. Perhaps he
should be told that Mr. Ilortliwiek would bare Lis re•
medy by proceeding against the informer of the Lord
Advocate. But what remedy bad he wanting the means,
to bring an action? And who was the informer of the
Learned Lord? Why, Mr. Borthwick's bankrupt
partner, Alexander, who was now in prison. if he
should then be told that Mr. Borthwick had one action
good against the Lord Advocate, he should call this ad-
ding mockery to injustice. If Mr. Borthwick had the
right tearing sgAlt maim which ho (Mr. AliegoemsbA
denied, Prow Wei a man in his circumstances to oppose
himself to the whole power of the Crown Lawyers in
Scotland? He had said this much with respect to the
individual, but he now called on the house, if they con-
sidered' themselves the representatives of a free people,
to look at the case as one is which the most sacred
rights of the subject had been violated, no an individual
had been deprived of the greatest of all blowlamp, per-
sonal liberty. Considering that a great wrong bad been
done to the subjects of this country in the person of Mr.
Borthwicts, he (Mr. Abercromby) would not desert his
cause, till he had again failed to unlace them to go into
au inquiry, or till having established the facts (which
he felt assured lie could do to the satisfaction of the
rest of the world, and hoped, therefore, he could do to
the satisfaction of that house) they should say, "we
are prepared to declare lie is not entitled to redress."
If he proved the facts and obtained no redress, it would
be for the friends of the law and constitution to consider
what was the condition of Scotland, if a man might be
seized as Mr. Borthwick had been, ironed, carried from
place to place, guarded with loaded tire-arms, confined
for seventy days, and at last liberated without being
brought to trial. Mr. Borthwick he (Mr. Abercromby)
bad never seen. Of his former life he knew nothing,
bus this he knew, that in the communications which he
lied with that individual, lie (Mr. Borthwick) appeared
most careful that no statement should pass that at all
deviated from truth, and he (Mr. A.) was not more
anxious to avoid misleading that Louse than Mr. Borth-
wick had been to avoid misleading him.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY did not at all
object to the bringing up of the petition. He rose but
to Pray be did not conceive the house to hare come to any
decision whatever on the case of Mr. Borthwick. On
a former night lie had argued, that respecting that indi-
vidual there was nothing before that house, and that his
case ought not to isflpence the vote they, were then
called upon to give. He felt that it was quite open for
him to look at that question. If the lion. and Learned
Uentkman called for information, he did not say ,it
might not be necessary to take some steps on that infor-
mation. He merely stated this, that it might not be
considered the petition was presented under any dia.
couraging circumstances.

Mr. A BEIICROM BY explained.
The LORD ADVOCATE of Scotland bad no °Nee-
: Lion to the petition being brought up. He bad little i -
quiry on the subject. When he was in Scotland he had
not expected that a motion, notice of which had been
given on the 4th of :461, would include matters which
had not occurred till after that period. The warrant
under which Mr. Borth wick bad been arrested, —reefed,
as all warrants did, that be should be committed to a
secure prison. In consequence be was committed to the
Jail of Dundee, and had been thence removed at his own
request, expressed in writing. When it should be seen
on what grounds his Learned Friend and Deputy in Scot-
land had acted, be was confident that they would be sa-
tisfactory to the house. All he now asked %va., that
they would +invent' their judgment till the case should
be fairly before them.
Lord BINNING said, a very near and dear relation
of his was concerned in the late proceedings. So far
us that individual was concerned, lie bad no wish that
the enquiry should be stilled, but quite the contrary.
He for our should give a willing vote for the papers
which were to he moved fur, and since their production
was not to be opposed, he implored the house to keep
themselves open to form an 11111/i4114e1l pidgino-nt on the
tnerits of the case. Aggravations enough were already
abroad. Till the papers were before them, .o enable
them to cootie to a fair disposition, lie hoped the house
would suspend its judgment, and this was all he asked.
Mr. BROUGHAM would repeat the call just made In
the Noble Lord—he would repeal it on the part ./i* that
side of the house. Since noes an inquiry um, to tak.
pl..ce (.01i4:11 ire had always foresaw would be the case), I

let every Member who would have to pesiossuuve
meet on theconduet of the Crows Lawyers rat
land, keep his wind free from all bias alit ?„,i
They (the Crown lawyers of Seatlaiid) were no,
their trial, and they hid the right in common .
other persons to have their trial conducted limn.,
before fair and unbiassed judges. But wit 7•••
milted this, lie marvelled that the doctrine A% iliv
been contended fur eight and forty hour% Lame
side of the house—he marvelled that the loottlel
that doctrine had not then stench those who we,
its advocates. All they (the Opposition) then deiti
was inquiry. They had said, he out premetii:
not condemn, God forbid! without inquiry; but
acquit without inquiry. lie had called on tlictii
eatertain inquiry, that witnesses might he cal
prove the facts. But it had !pleased that house
wisdom or in its justice, or under the impression
Noble Lord's eloquence, to say, `• so, we will I
thing." Theydeclined examining witnesses who
prove the facts, or calling for documents which
back up the testimony of such witnesses, and
dared '• because matters are made out of the gi
nature that ever came before the house touching j berry of the subject, and the administration of ,
we, the House of Commons, will sanction no imp
He was delighted that they had found themselves
taken on the other side. was also delighted t
house had fonnd itself mistaken in the decision ti
it bad come, and that inquiry was now admitted
necessary. lie must once more protest against OTT
which the Noble Lord had taken; in every et
spert lie entirely coincided with him. lie had SA
he thought a *ember bad no ground fur demandini
inquiry unless he produced documents in proof
case, or moved that certain documents should
upon the table. This was not the constitutiona.,
tice. A statement of any Member was sufficient t.
mand inquiry. Common fame was a fair ground t.
impeachment; rumour bad been a Around of hawse!.
went, therefore it was absurd to Iliy, that a statement r
an Hon. Member, founded upon information obtuir
from private sources, would not warrant the house
going at once so an inquiry. The Noble Earl said '"
documents alone could be evidence, and that pare'
dence could not be obtained. Now the effect ut
watery evidence would be only to sbew half the
the other half bring to he supplied by parole,
puzzle a Counsel, without eliciting the truth.
way of proceeding in the present case would onl
insult to the country and to that house.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY made an
vation which we could not bear.
Mr. WYNN thought the Honourable and
Gentleman had stated the case too broadly, when ,
that rumour was 'efficient ground fur proceeding
quiry. if parole evidence were to he received
case, then it must be before a Committee, as that
only place where it could be received. Wheu the.
meats about to he moved fur were before the house,
would then be for them to consider whether ulterior •
ceedings would be necessary.
Mr. J. P. GRANT expressed his satisfaction •
decision of Moister', and stated, that he never ,
vote with so much personal pain as that upon the i.
discussion of this question. He took an opportunity
stating this, and Of bearing testimony to the feeling an,.
rectitude with which the Lord Advocate had exercised
the duties of his office upon all other occasions.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY felt it necessal
that both sides should understand each other AA to
they were doing, and he must say, that he made
change whatever in his opinions upon the qr
lie thought upon the former occasion that there
sufficient ground in the lion. and Learned Member
statement, for the house to proceed to an inquiry upon ;
and, he no
41 the evidence not then elk ..
uteri, Shook ewrillrOrdilrderit,iirotitEr tharthelsbourd—
possess the means of .deciding spun the charges.
did not wish IC be noderstood as pledging Linnets
any particular coarse of proceeding upon that iliform,
then when Weenie before them. He should not consider
himself as pledged to any thing by supporting -"
diction of the papers.
Lord A. HAMILTONsaid, that what bad fallen
the Noble and Learned Lord upon the subject
action, wan the most gross in substance of any thi
bad ever heard. When the Noble and Learned Lord
that be had only obtained a shilling damages, and
a cheer among those who surrounded him, he took
to suppress the main point that the Jury found a
for bins on all the counts. His misfortune was, t
went into Court with clean hands; for the
stated that it was die goodness, not the badness,
character that ought to lessen the damages.—(l?
The Noble Lord had done this once to serve a ;
which was now past ; and he hoped that for the
his own character he 'would not repeat what was .
misrepresentation in effect, although he would not
was a wilful one.
The Petition bring read,
Mr. ABERCROMDY said, that do moving
Petitiun do lie upon the table, he wished to sat
words in enter that the house 'night understand
ject. As far as regarded the case of liorthwiek,
chiefly related to judicial proceedings, documents a
would nit be entlivient, and without parole evidence
case could not be established. There were two meet
points involved in the question ; the one was the 1.
went which Borthwick had received as an instil'
and the next was the situation in which the Noble.
, stood in respect to his deputies. It was sec eeeee
have parole evidencce in order to shew his conitectim
with their acts. The only documents to be prude,.
upon that point, must be the letters which had
between the parties. But these might be of a
nature, and lie did not mean to speak disrespeci
but only in a constitutional sense, when he sail'
they should have no proof of the authenticity r
letters. He wished to say one word as to what 11,
said of the manlier in which he bad brought ihi
ter forward. It was objected that lie ought not I
introduced the case of liorthwick in his motion.
although he was willing to release the Noble and I
ed Lord from the responsibility of acts committed
absence, yet his deputies were hound in duty to cm
nirate to him whatever took place, and it was ei
his duty to require that they did so. 1t ash rep
the general tittle in which lie had treated the railej
he had charges to prefer he knew of no proper
doing so, bat that of stating them clearly and di
Of Nr. Hope he knew nothing, for lie believed I
never seen that gentleman in his life. Hut the
respect 2.sul veneration which he must feel for the
of his family precluded all possibility of :any preji
motives.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY again atm
necessity of. the Louse having u clear understai
mom the enliject. When the diwiimente should b
fore the house they would probably contain asome.
thee information than hail been given by the lion.
Learued Meruher, and sonic other Members would
perhaps be enabled to say something on the other
of the question. It would then be for them to d
whether any further inquiry would be rwc,•,s,ary at
Ifs thought their was it rear at present upon w Lich
iatirusetion was eleeirahle. Rat iliec \sere 1.110 f;
no further inquiry ley soimittine that ihi,
After a few words. times Lord RINIING 4/1.1 the
Ar.vocarc, the petition was uteeerrel to lie opts'
table.

M %SS %CAE OP Ttle GREEK 1110 ST AGEV.
Mr. %V. S.II xr. ine the Nelda 1e.r,1 4.11,0e.ier is
place, wag 411N' to 0/Pl.. iutpbrl Na
la tL~
IIIMIS 1111 W ;Lbrtid rrlainb to e.:ruite trae•U••
of".

•
imiesemm
.it- •
- •
now npuo
•
it 7
1
hr t :
••,
;
re 00 that
intinesS of
were nom
•
tleistand,4l
441:44. Lo
silt do not
,•in but to
called to
mse its
ion of the
ill do no.
tho *richt . •
•
and di-
le grossest
lug. tle
li-
of pistier. to'
iuyuirj.'' 1i
elves nais-
d the
o to . .
Ittltti
tune view r.• A, •
other rr- `4,1%.‘":4
said that
-
ending an
•*of of his
Id be laid
onal prat- •
lent to der
round for
r iinpescl_.
atement of
obtained
r house in
1 said that
parole evi-
t of disco-
f the case,
le, and to •
t. Such a
•
only be an
an oleser- . •
Learned •
ten be said
ding to in-
red in any
sat was the
the docu- • .
e house, it
belies pro-
.
lion at the
rer gave *
the former •
(inanity of •
tiding and
I exercised
ns-
t necessary
as to what •
made 110
qn-stion.
ire was not . •
Member's •
tairbyenttip-ui"n t - •
hilsho4U
irges. lie
himself to
it informa- •
•
it consider • ,
g the pro-
alien from
ire' of his V
y thing he
Joni stated •
and raised
took care
J a 'verdict
that lie
the Judge
•
less, of his
-(llear.)
a purpose
the saltv.l
rasa gru..s
I not say it
g that the
say a few
,nd his oh-
rick, as it
cuts alone
idence tho
material
the treJt-
ntlividual, -
roble L•ird
• y to
•onnectiou •
produced
ad passed
a private .
.pectfolly,
said. that
y of suits
had hero
this mat- •
sit to hare
on. Mir,
nil Legn-
ted itlil
o commit-
s rioal!y• . .
iweacyt ,
oi
ff
',lrani to - •
,nb
er
I directly.
al he had
the deep
the Lead
rejudieed
dated the
rstanding
iid be be- • •
lime fur-
don. and
thee 0
other side
to deride
y or mit.
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clfg.o 10,
he Lulu
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