The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-02-19 00:00:00

CATHOLIC CLAIMS.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT wished to take this opportu-
nity of saying a few words upon a subject of very great
importance, and oue in which he felt en anxious interest.
Yesterday, on coming to town, he heard that the Catholic
question was to be brought on by his flight Hon. Friend,
Mr. Plunkett, in the. course of the present week. He
found, however, with regret, that the state of Ireland
was but little understood by many of the Members of that
House ; and it required that they should be much better
actri•in•etl with it than they were at present, before they
proceeded to discuss a question so momentous in its cosi-
sequenzes. Under time circumstances, lie was disposed
to fsiego the desire he felt of seeing it brougist forward
as soon as possible; and he must therefore request his
Hight Honourable Friend to postpone his motion Gil
after the recess. He did so in the full conviction that the
• qne4rion ought not to be discussed till Ws state of Ireland
w..s fully and clearly understood.
Mr. CANNING saiJ that, if the present priipsi,lon
had not been countenanced by so triad a friend to the
Catholic question as We Right Honourable lia.oAt, lie
should himself have risen to submit it. He was me thst
the temper of the house and of the country was out such
as to give the question a fair bearing. IC it mis now
brought forward. It would be mixed tip with to des
which, be trusted, were only of a temporary and swami-
, tory nature, He therefore most willinfly joined in the

• t144.ai0r;',.... •

rrquest of the Right Hon. BaroOet to have the discuss:on
stp oned.
Sir JOHN STEWART made a few obsrrvations, but
it so low a nice as to be q"it- inaudible in the g..lloey.
Ne underst-oil h' to any Cost many of the Moot for
people in Ireland lilt sore at the law proceedings which
hail recently sake', place there. The Honourahle Ba-
ronet wait then oroceeeing i,,to so tie genets! detail epos
the salukis. when he was rhPe,l to order by
li-IsetilirEA KEN, wLo told him he was going into mat-
ter that (amid pot he enterti:iiieil unless he meant to con-
clude with a motion.
Sir JOHN STEWART then sat dosn expressing his
intention, as It was understood, to bring forward a rti.).
don on a fixture day resi:ecting the state. of Ireland.
Mr. PLI/Nlifi IT said that after what had fallen
from the Right lion. Gentleman in the Chair, it would
ill become him to go into extraneous matter on the pre-
sent subject. The motion respecting the state of Ire-
land was in good hands, and when it was brought fur-
ward he shouted be prepared to give the fullest explana-
tion possible upon all points relating to the corduct of
his Majesty's listrernment there. In one respect the re-
quest made by his Right lion. Friend placed him in
embarrassing situation, fur he had to apologize to lion.
members 'alio had attended in cons•iienee of the no-
tice he had given. He assured the horse that it was not
from any consideration of couvenience shatter acquiesced
in the request. His own feelings entirely coinebteil with
the sentiments expressed by both his Right hon.
Friends, and he was quite sere that under the unfortu-
nate circumstances in which Ireland was placed at pre-
sent, it would be impossible that the question could be
calmly and dispassionately discussed. Ile was also sure
it would be the wish of every Member, whether for or
against the motion, that it should roceive a full and
fair discussion. The Right lion. member then said that
lie would bring on his motion on the sisenteenth of
April.
The motion was then accordingly fixed for that
day.
Sir EDWARD KNATCHIWLI, suit that an order
hail hers made for a call of the Iloesa, on Thursday
next, the day originally lllrti foe tt,e motion of the
Right lion.Oentleman. In consequence of the postpone-
ment of the motion, it would be necessary to discharge
that order, and fix it for the day on which the Right
liorta..:rable gentleman intendeefor to make his mo-
tion.
The order for a call of the House on Thursday next,
being then read by the Clerk, was discharged, and an
Oilier of •a similar nature was made for the 17th of
April.

PARLIAZIENTART BOROUGUB.
Lord, JOHN RUSSELL, postponed to Thertday next
his isoliOn fur a Como& tee to obtain returns relating
tfieteAcittereseicetisce irk" it rusty*. itn4 the connect'
of voters in each borough sending AlLucheis to Perlis-
NM*.

181511 TITHES.

Mr. GOULBUIIN gave no ice fur a motion. oh tit.-
6th ofitpril, on the sult!eet of a commutation of Tithes
in Ireland.

IRISH &HUTU.
Mr. OOULDURN then said that the question which
he rose to submit to the hops:), was fur a reduction of the
staff of the Irish militia. It fornied pat t of the ar ante-
ment that was cont. inplitied by the Government of that
with a view to a re•luctwa in the national expen-
diture. That arrangement included the unemployed staff
of the Irish militia, and a reduction of them appeared ad-
visable, because it could be effected without injury or
without injustice to any party, and with considerable re-
trenchtnent in the public expenses of that country. The
object of his minion was to obtain leave to bring in a Bill
for that purpose. The House was aware that, by the oii-
ginal Acts of Parliament for raising the militia, a consi-
derable difference exived in the constitution of the ittil:tia
corps in Englan I an.l Ireland. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man then exelained those differences, and aided, that in
the year lbli it was in the c..nteennlation of the Ir sh Go-
vernment to propose a reduction of the staff of ihe militia
of that country. That reduction was to be effected not by
removing ant•• of those persons then on the staff, but by
preventing the commanding officer. of the various regi-
ments f.om filling up the va.ancies that might happen by
death or other causes, by any Lew api.o.ntmen... The
lilil which he meant to submit to the house would effect a
gradual reduction by discharging at once all the super-
numeraries, and by preventing new vacancies. He begged
to guard himself against being understood to impute any
blame to those mentbors of the Irish Government wit.), in

Ibl7, forbore to carry the proposed reduction into ethct.
They might, perhaps, have been unwilling to imerf-re
.with the eutolutuen's and comforts of individuals, and he
was ready to make allowances for the feelings by which
they were actuated. The Right lion. Gentleman conclud-
ed by moving for leave to bring in a BM fur the more
speedy reduction of the officers, serlimitm, corporals, and
drummers on the amti of the mill; of Ireland, nut on
actital dot?.
Colonel SKEFFINGTON was understood to say that
be would give every opposition to the Bill when it
should be brought before the house. lie wished to
move for the production of certain papers connected
with the subject, and thought the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. (.oulburn) ought not to proceed
with the Bill until those documents were laid on the
table.
Mr. FIUME said be was anxious to know to what

extent the contemplated reduction was to go. lie thought
a similar reduction ought to be made in the Staff of the
Militia of England. He was quite satisfied a reduction'
could be snide in both in the year Ibl9, when he hail
the boner of submitting a motion to that effect, as well
as at present. lie was, however, glad to see his Majesty's
Ministers proposing a reduction iu the expenditure of
the public money. Ile ruse fur the purpose of learning
what was the extent of the coutemplated redut Lion ; and
also whether it was intended to effect a corresponding
reduction in the Militia Staif of England, which could
well hear it.
Mr. HOU LBURN was perfectly ready to defer the se-
cond reading of his bill unit the patters called fitr by
Cutonel sketfington were upon the table of the house.
In limner to the quest on trout the Hutt. Mead). r oppo-
site (Mr. litroe), he he,igeol to sav that the saving would
be about. 30,A M. The estimate of the last year had been
1310,P00/.
Colonel lIMIWELL declared that the redartio t pro-
posed road not be I arried into execution without a direct
streaeh of Itith ; and stated that it would plunge a large
body of men' with n iv. s anti fatuities, into a co-di:ion
I of deep an I undeserved distress.

air. PEEL said, he should not have ma le any observa-
tions in the present stage of the measure, had tt nut I e n
for that had filen fro.n the Honourable Member, who
contended that toe prophs-d reductio . cmild not he car-
ried in.° effect, wit heat a breach of faith to the parties
who wuald be affected by it. This was a serious impat..-
lion, sad ought sot to be la sde arm slight grounds.
The Honourable Member, however, bad perms tel him-
self to snake it. sad he (Sir. P.) could nut bear the charge
With's% illiffiltdy rising in his place to rlpel it. If a

4 '---

• BANK BALANCES:
Mr. MU:MU in moving for a Return of the Bub
ances of the Public Money in the hands of the Bank of
England, observed, that in the year 1815, when he first
brought this subject under the consideration of the house,
the amount of the deposits lodged with the Bank amount-
ed to no less a stun than 11 or 12,000,000/. 'the loss in
the put lie front this source was estimated by the t7ominit
tee on the public expenditure in the year 1807, at five or
1001001. per annum. The services performed by the
Bank were merely those discharged in an or,linary
imp •ransanction.. The anwant of the deposiS had been
reduced to about 4,000,4100 t, but there was still no Mecca-
sity for leaving so large a run as this wholly miprodtte-
Live in the hands of the Bank. Nothing, in fact, would
he more easy ihan to make such an arrangement as would
give the public a partiripa ion in the profits arising from
these balances; and if the present Chancellor of the
Exchequer would grant to him, what be could never ob-
tain from the last, a Committee to examine in'o this sub-
ject, he (Mr. 6.) pledged himself not only to prove the
Insignificant nature of the s-rvices ptrfonned by the Bank
at such an immense profit, but to suggest a elan to the
house, which would give the public a fair participation in
that profit. '1 be whole services which the Batik pet-
formed to the public were the transfers and the payments
of the d,vitletuis. Ile found no fault with the mode in

which this was inansged; nay, he would Allow that there
All he tin brier m •nagement ; hut still, gool as was
the management, it was overpaid. The payment of
270 000/. a-year, o labia the Bank received for the perform-
ance of their recede.", was surele.too mach; and he ha
no hesitation in saying that it mieit be done for 70,000!
and thus a sariaz of .100,0t101. a-year to the public be e(-
fected. He had no wish to provoke discuesiou in the
to an time; but he had some hopes from the new Chau-
eellor of the Exchequer, to whose attention he woalil
earnestly recommend the subject. The Honourable
lieutleinan con.da ,eel ley moving fvr a Return of thit
several Habitues of the Public Money id the hands of
Bank.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did rot
rise to oppose the inwi in of the Hon. Gentleman ;
bad, indeed no objection to it, only be hoped the lion.
Gentleman would not, by his declining to offer any re-
marks on the question, consider him pledged to any par-
ticular form or view of it. He was thankful to the Hon.
Gentleman fir his commendation; and would assure lint,
that when the proper time came, he would pay every
attention to the subject.
Mr. BARING thought, that whatever objection ha I
been mole to the arrangements between the public add
the Bank, had been made without due i °pity into the
nature of the arrangement between them. With regard
to the balances in the hands of the Bank. it had beea
stated, that they had formerly exceeded 12 millions, the:,
they were now reduced to three millions, and it was pro-
posed to reduce them still lower. This, be conceived,
stunld be contrary to the conditions stipulated and
granted to the Batik by the Government at the time of
The more al of its h otter. At that time it was allowed
that, io conseeptence of the large portion of its funds,
'which the Bank had given to the public, it should always
be allowed to hold a balance of tier or five millions.—
This the Hon. Gentleman well knew, and yet he ra-ne
year after year with the same complaint against tae,
Bank. The Bank had lent to the public a large sum At
a very low rat- of interest. Ile would admit that whet
the charter of the Bank came again to be renewed. it
might be proper to consider what balance should
allowed in the hands of the Bank ; but, pending the p-e-
-tent contra t, he contended that my interference al.:I
the existiug arrangement would be unfair.
Mt. MANNING rose to make some ohs Trations o
the lecture which had been read to the Bank by the 110.1.
Gentleman (Mr. Greaten.) There was, lie asid, en an-
nual acconnt of all the balanc- s in the hands of
Balk laid before' the Huuse; and he contended that
there was not a shadow of ground for the complaiat
which haebeen made, as the Bank bad always male a
compensation to the public.
ItICAItUt) admitted that the Bank bad al mays
made sense compensation to the public, lint that c.)
pegisation was not adequate. Ile was glad that t)ie
Right lion. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Ese',l-
- had taken kindly the hint given by his hon.
Friend. He (Mr. Ricardo) would take the liberty of
giving another hint, which he hoped the Right hon.
gentleman would also take kindly: It seemed that, in
the agreement between the public and the Bank, at the
time of the last renewal of the 'charter, the Bark hat
driven a hard bargain for the public; he would, there-
fare, advise the Right hon. Gentleman, if he should
have the same business to attend to, to beware that the
Bank- did not circumvent him. For this pittpose he
would advise the Right hon. Gentleman, before be came
to terms tinge the bank, to take the advice of the House.
He would pledge himself, that if the service which the
Bank did to the public were to be let by public auction.
it could he got done fur far less money. If the charter
allowed them all that they were in the habit of receiv-
ing, then that but showed the more n ' y there was
for the interfereuce of the /losses as the large profits
which the Bank received sheweal how much the present
charter was in its favor.
The motion having been read from the Chair,
Mr..IihENFELL rose to explain. It was natural fur
the llononiable fiend man opposite, (Mr. Manning)
to a 'worst. the rause of tree Bank, being a Director of
that Establishment; and it ass-natural foe his Honour-
s...le saint him (Nit.. Baring) to have a love for
that Institution, havii.g been in the di•ection during the
time that the Bank was profiting so notch by the large
balances which it ha iin band. The Honourable lien-
tietnao went hack t • the Cl•arier; and from this con-
tended that the gars:ion of ba'aucTs was closed ; but

~,~.,,