The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-04-18 00:00:00

lington had ark no such represention to France, as the
character and honotir of his country reqiiired•him to db.
The Noble Duke had said that he app.reciated the for.
bearance of the Allies in regard to Spun ; in all this be
Went bierely on the principle of expediency, and not of
right. On the whole lie mast say, that the Noble Duke
had sot consulted the honour and character of his coun-
try. The other point on which he asked for information
was this :—The Noble Earl stkted that be had 'belle
received the most amicable aseuraoces from Preece; but
so far from any assurances bein.' made by the Freak
Goveinenent, be found in every gespetch e direct avowal
of the Monarchical principle, by which people in chum
and slavery were never to seek relief, except at the will
of their legitimate Men. There was not, in the Pa-
pefi, any expectation of peace held oat be the French
Oevernmeet; but the Monarchical principle beld oat is
all its odious forms, by the French Minister, in his de-
spatch to Mr. Canning. This Minister talked of public
opioloo is Prime, bet he hoped in Gov that the opisien
of the French people outs not that of the odious 01111ein-
moat welhib wow •asieted b that country. On the fats
of thPeerrempondence It was. ,that the Beebe
lam* wee *templets* cinpee so of 'bribes/or
•eietionwthat bad brew nrrletleen. • ,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL ihserved, that if the Noble
Lord had coshed kiessef ti a mere motion for pipets,
he (Lord Liverpool) would be able to produce them in lase
than 111 halo, if reel: papers did exist. But iostead of that,
the Noble Lard made a speech which embraced a great part
of the question the House was to disease on a future day.
Therefore he felt himself in a state of emberrassmeat, be-
cause he could not let the Noble Lord'. statements go forth
without some oSservatlon. He must say. that he never heard
a sore unfair representation of the eoedeet et his Noble
Maid dining the segociations, than that which was just
am& by tin Noble Lord. No mystery had been observed
by his Mejeety's Government, either in their conduct or In
tM expreeelon of teen sentiments towards Spain. The first
Jostles taken of the changes in the Spanish Government in
Ike month of April, IWO, did not come from France, but
iVont Russia. Our negotiator was blamed for not having
made strong remonstrances sesinst the interference of
,Frasee. But at that time nothing was said of putting a
question respecting the recall of the French Minister from
ItriZThe paint was purely a contingent one, and his
Friend was not called on to go farther than he did ;
sad the breekiag of a diplenisticlutercourse, he contended,
WIN so cause ef war. At the time alluded to, the Weiler-
item by force ef arms was not called In question. He was
sathilled that ail the information which could he required
was mutilated in the papers before the House, and that no
mM mould read them without feeling that every thing bad
beet done by Ministers which could be done to prevent the
'aelorhetween France and Spain. Here the Noble Earl read
Mae dominate, to show that the British Government had
petted to hope, some time ago, that the late negwelations
would lead to the preservation of peace between France sad
Spain. As to the papers asked for relative to communica-
tions made previous to the Congress of Verona, he wished
'to have time to make an iaqpiry respecting them. There
was another point. It had been the decided opinion of our
Government that the Congress of Verona should not take
,ip the affairs of Spain at all. But the strong ease of the
llovereigns was, that the King of Spain was in a state of
defeM. The Confess, however, tenses, op without an en-
gagement that any step should hats Meg takes with regard
to Spain ; therefore there was an ty for Our• Mil ~14
to have made any remoteness mimeses . •
Lord HOLLAND expreseed hissisrprieethetthe Nei&
Earl could feud any difficulty in giving information as to
the papers called (or hy his Noble Friend ; and he must
say the Noble Earl hail given a most unsatisfactory an-
swer to the questions put by his Noble Friend. His No-
ble Friend wished to know what pretests were made
against the principle of interference ; awl then- he "was
referred to the paper of the Noble Duke, than which
a more unsatisfactory . statement he never read. A
most horrible crime was on the point of being commit-
ted, and the subject was merely spoken of as a mater of
expediency. Suppose a gang of robbers in Ireland
had conspired to burn the houses of some neighbonring
squares, and that they disclosed their deetgli to a
Catholic Priest. Then, suppose the Catholic Priest
could say to them "Oh ! don't do so ; for if you do,
it will be a very unjust thing, and it may subject yea
to great risk." If a Priest were to use such language
as this, would he not be considered almost as bad as one
of the conspirators ? and was not the language of
our negociator somewhat like this ? He hoped the af-
fairs of this country would no longer be left to the ma-
nagement of men who had so little notion of maintaining
its honour and character. The answer of the Noble Earl
opposite to the question of his Noble Friend, relative to
the Crowns of France and Spain being under one head,
was by no means satisfactory: for it was evident that no
security existed against such en event. Among the Sove-
reigns of the Continent there was what they called a princi-
ple of legitimacy, which was similar to what in England
had been called Divine right. And when this was coupled
with the insatiable ambition that had always distinguished
the Bourbons, would any mad say that an attempt would
not be made to unite the Crowns of both countries? in
ease the infant Duke of Bordeaux were to die, Ferdinand of
Spain would he considered as next heir to the Crown of
France by (Milne right; and no doubt au attempt would be
made to unite both Crowns. It never could be for the inte-
rest or safety of Great Britain that the two Crowns of
France and Spain should be united. It was not now too
late to get from Spain a recognition of the principle that a
Bourbon should not be on the Thrones of both countries.
He conceived it necessary that the House should be in pos-
session of all papers containing complaints, on the part of
the Government of Spain, of the conduct of the French
Obvernment towards it.
The Deka of WELLINGTON made some remarks with
a view of justifying the language he had used is the ;sego-
eiations.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH gave notice, that on Thursday
next, he should move that the conduct of his Majesty's
Government, during the negociations; should be Wm; into
consideration.
The Marquess of LANSDOWN said he should move for
some explanatory papers; and among others for any com-
munication that might have been 'made to the Duke of Wel-
lington, respecting the quarrel between France and Spain,
from the bath of October to the 12th of November, during
which time the Noble Duke was said to be ign nant as to
the designs of France against Spain. He would say some-
thing more on this question to-morrow.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said he should move for
papers, showing that the French Government had disavow-
ed all ideas of aggrandisement.
At Half-past Seven the house adjourned.

CATHOLIC CLAMS.
Mr. COKE (of Norfolk) presented a Petltibi; alerted by
67 of the Clergy in the diocese of Nortek+, in favour of
Romeo Catholic Emancipation.
The Petition wee read at length; said on the question
that it do lie upon the the table,
Sir F. BURDETT addressed the Speaker, and said
that lie rose chiefly to express his approbation of a peti-
tion so honourable to the parties whewe'cause was to cowe
before them that night, and so creditable to the liberality
sod justice of the petitioners. It Was honourable to
them, when placed. in contrast to the intolerant and bi
Rotted avowal of a learned body, and to their desire to
keep from others the freedom of opinion *which they
themselves enjoyed.—(Hear, hear.) It was not merely.
however, to express his concurrence he the sentiments of
the Clergy of Norwich that be 'rose, it was to state his
own Ihelings on the subject, and his most unqualified dig=
approbation at the repetition of that farce (hear, bear)
which they bad been called epos, year slier year, for a
'tenth of time, to go through, and which could not tend
le Wood or profitable result, but was likely to spread
unite widely the seeds of distrust among a large portion
of the community, and reeved merely to promote danger
to the safety and peace of the country. Since they had
heard the Chief Member of the Cabinet declare, on a
late occasion (it was the eloqoent Secretary for the Fo-
reign Department to whom be alloded),—since he had
repeated then the declaration which had dropped from
him before more than
,once—that, often as the case of
the Catholics of Ireland had been submitted to that
House, there was at present no chance of their petition
being carried, he (Sir F. Burden) considered that the
Right Hon. Gentleman was but practising a deception
upon the House and the country, holding out hopes and
exciting feelings which would become bitter from dis-
appointment—as hope lung deferred would be converted
into despair.—(Hear.) For what possible object this
miserable policy was pursued, he couldnot possibly ima-
gine, unless it were to catch a
.gale of popularity for
the semblance of liberal feelings, in chin way or manner
at least.—(Cheers.) It was not prudent to create soother
discussion on the subject, when it was well known how
fruitlessly and hopelessly all means to give it -a favour-
able termination had proved, and svhich had only ended
in the destruction of hopes rashly, and, unfortunately,
too much excited. He considered it a• little extra-
ordinary that the same farce should he ngain brought
forward, that the time of the House should be again west.
ed in useless discussion—(Hear, hear,) and the people of
Ireland should be again plunged into despair; to see
again their own grievances painted by the eloquence of
the Right Hon. Gentleman in colonts of the brightest bud
—to find their cause again hopelessly pleaded for by him
with all the apparent fervour of sincerity, and in a speech
unanswerable, no doubt, in point of arg meat. It was
too much for a country to be thus trifled with. Far better
would it be for England and the Catholics of the sister
country, that the same unbending system which once
disgraced Great Ihitain,had not been relaxed. Far better
would it.bave been that hopes had never been held out
only to be deceived; that the least -concession never W.s
granted, and the narrow and bigotted syitem of what
was called Protestant ascendancy, that curse of Ireland,
was still maintained in all its (Lettish and unsocial severity:
That system, the consequences of which be feared were
not yet ascertained, but which were likely to bring ruin
some day upon the country. It was better even in a bid
cause not to relax at all,than to make partial concessions,
and incur clanger from the uncertain feelings of bOth par-
ties. Quante coat:len:tie etiam la meta, preetaatiur sit.
If such he a maxim for the conduct of an individual, hbw
much more impolitic was it for a country to,pursue it ?
It was to him a subject of extreme surprise that the Et.
Hon. Gentleman, who so forcibly depicted the conse-
quences to the Irish Catholics for denying them relief,
could come into office with those who declared they could
never agiec with hint. It was strange to see him unable
to reconcile his colleagues to the question, and to heat
him publicly avow the utter impossibility of an Adininis-
nation being formed, in which the claim of the Catho-
lics could not be admitted. Was that then:tanner in which a
question should be treated, when the peace and salvation
of the United Kingdom was at stake ? If such were the
Right Hon. Gentleman's opinionsoftheimportaice of the
subject, it would have been more Debit to have separated
front cacti an Administration, and give up office; to retai•
which he tSir F. B.) belle, ad was the c.ase of that ciao-
promise of the public safety'.—(Cheers.) In the Administra-
tion of Fox the Cabinet were divided on tite same question.
The nrsjority were in favour of Catholic emancipation,
and 'they were not content with a tnock support; they
brought in a measure of pectin! relief—(near) ; bat they
failed in their views from I disappointment pf support on
w:,ich they hat calculated. lie felt that ennobles was ne-
cessary to be done to restore pence to lettan'a, *era <lowa
as it had been with misrule and ditiOnsiori. that epuidrer
was at that m tmnent seen the efrect of diet Pepotent sod
scandalous temporising policy parsae.l by public teen,
from convietion, but from the ilsn.ree of losing their
places. It was' seen M the 'louse a few Sigh's' Liner,
when an appearance of protretioe was.given to a Law Oth-
cer of the Crown in that coastry. (Mr. Pkoketi), to him