The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-05-18 00:00:00

TUE STATESMAN.

twenty per cent., he tootl a ret-y fortunate, but a very
;Mary insta.sc.! of the c:frct of that chauge.—(A
laugh.)—Tlw Lica augmenting the salary of the
Lord Lieutenant did not originate with the Duke of
Iti.-hrrotsi. Lord Harass-it ke, on leaving the Covert-
ment ot that country, had made a strong representa-
Non that nu nubleuatti could succeed to that lattice, at
ller salary then received, without impairing kis rivals.
t. rtonc. And with respect to the principle contended
c. 0.. that none hi: men of great lass.e.siuns ieleemeel
I •,•ted (or such an oilier, he raised his voice against it.
lie thought that turn of inf. rior fortunes. hut of equal

I...iwetn ;mai. ought to be selected fur Liza otEir, sax
t.ei..ts such torn as the Duke of Bedford, imr the Duke
um Dsrunshire, however high the merits of thewm No-
m iettien might hr. He thought that it would be a

hardship that a Nobleman like burl Whitworth,
'an hid been in
and whose talents were acknowled!red, P1141U141 not he
allowed to till the place of lAnil-Lientet.ant ..f Ireland
mitt:nut making himself a beggar for life.
3lr. SHAW expressed .his regret and astonishment
t.. hear any Irish 31ember suggesting in that Mouse,
t:t..! policy of abolishing the office of Lord Lieutenant
ot Ireland. Dublin had suffered most severely by thr
-let of Union, and no sating that might follow the
abolition of the other could be compared to the dr-
strm•ii in u hick that measure would bring upon time
citizen+ of Itithliti. Every one at all arlittallttPst with
tie state of Ireland, knew how ninth, and 1i .w
verelh she starred by absentees; but if thr office of
I.Jrd Litutroorlit—the last remaining indUrellielit for
men of property to remain at home, was abolished, it
would havd the edict of baildoing them altogether
Lion Irelan.l.

Sir JOON NEWPORT explained. 1k did nut re-
anmend the :tholition of the office of Lunt Lieutenant,
I e only spoke of the increased amount the expenses
• ! that office.

Mr. WELLESLEY POLE spoke in favour of the
efet. : the increased anon ante. he contended, was
i.—olutelv necessary. Th.: Lord Lieutenant aas nut a
r.cate individual supporting a splendid and expensive
a:Abre.litment ; he had public tlntie4 to perform. It
nu.; expected by the people that the name of the Lord
Lieutenant should stand at the head of the various
public charities in Ireland : this he was in fact hound
to Jo, if he wished to stand well in the eyes of the
pe plc, or to preserve the dignity of his station. He
wag convinced that nothing would give more dissatis-
I Letion to the people of Ireland, than the notion of
abolishing the other of Lord Lieutenant. He agreed
with the Ilan. Member for Dublin (Mr. Shaw), the!
suds a ut-..sure amnia excite great discontent, and
would be as great a calamity as Ireland ever felt.
Families of rank in that country would be deprived of
a Court ; they world have no Court to resort to, to
which they might present their wives and daughters.
—(A could assure She Douse, that the
Stentlettien of Ireland were as high and as proud as
e .old be found in any other part of the world; they
would look on it as a degradation, if, having cummu-
in...aloft: of importance to snake to the Dos-eminent,
they were referred to the Chief Secretary. instead of
having a direct communication with the representa-
tive of Majesty. Events had happened. and might
hsi•pen again in Ireland, which might require mea-
,•t:es of the utino..l promptitude and decision. The
Lord Lieutenant, in critical emergencies, could take
I.l',Un himself to act with vigour. when a person of
toe rank of the Secretary could not venture to do so.
l!e believe I, indeed, that there was no man of re-
spectability in Ireland who a uulti wish to see the office
ut Lord Lieutenant abo:ished. As to the salsry,when
i. was settled at its present increased rate, it was never
1 nagineil that it was adequate to rover the expenses of
tie office, hut it was intended that it should he such
as to enable a man of fortune to exercise the other,
without too much encroaching on his property. No
min could undertake properly to till the office of
Lord Lieutenant without spending 10,601;/. a-year of
h:3 private income.
Mr. TIERNEY said, lie hail never lent himself to
ary such proposition as that of the abolition of the
arficr of Lord Lieutenant. lie had always conceived
that propositions respecting the abolition of offirrig
retainad at the Union should conic from Irish Gentle-
men.

Sir H. PARN ELL wisl►ed to he understood that he
la;:d not imiolotell the least blame to Earl Talbot. As
to the proi,riety of retaining the office of Lord Lieu-
tenant, t here it as a difference in his opinion and that
of his Right Hon. Friend, of the ►iew taken of that
quest:on in Ireland : :u►d the difference was easily ae-,
wanted f•tr. His Right lion. Friend (Mr. W. Pole)
f ad sl•eot most of his time in the castle, at Dublin,
where there was not a whisper, no doubt, against such
an office. Ile (Sir It. P.) on the other hand, spent
most of his time in the country iu Ireland, where he
of en heard the opinion that a change might advert-
tageously take place in the Executive tiovernment of
Ireland. It wry nut his wish to abolish the office of
Lord Lieutenant without finding a sebetitate t but Ile
tioatight the business of the police of Ireland would
much better managed by appointing Lords Lieute-
nants of counties, after the. English system. Much
difficulty was at present f It from the want of autho-
r4ies in t've different eminties, to communicate with
the Governn►ent, as the litovernors of comities did not
answer this purpose. Formerly there was a strong
upin:un in favour of the olf►ce of Lord Lieutenant, but
at present the general opinion respecting it was much
changed.
Mr. RARING allowed that it was not proper for an
English Member to interfere to propose the abolition
of such an office as that of Lori, lie►►te►►ant of Ireland,
and be though•, that whatever little pomp remained in
the cap•tal of Ireland should not he ahuoished.
k. observed, in general, that propositions for the in-
urea.e of the salaries of offices passed very easily in
t!.e House, and that during all th• time he had sat
there, he had never known that any reduction of
those salaries bad been made. When 10,0001. was
...del to the salary of the Lord Lieutenant, there was
a sort of pretence for it. which did not at present
east, rid. in the stale of the currency. '1 hough it
w.ut haposaible for him to know whether 20 or 30,0001.
a year was precisely tI e fit salary for a Lord Lieute-
nant, be 'untested against the doctrine that salaries
should be ineresatoi, merely because it was said that
otherwise only men of great fortune could fill the of-
ices. Ilia might lead to au icdefiui:e augweatatiou

of salaries. instance, if it was asked why the liu-
sernor of the rape of hood Hope had nuts 10,11Itth. a
year, or twice a, noich a • any other tiusernor, which
was perfe.aly absurd: The saute rnswer ntiOtt he
wale, that u Wood such a salary, only those whom
the Nohlr Lord canes' the Leviathans of fortune could
till the otli,e. Since the change in the state of the
eirculation, there was no man of any n.lition whose
nortnne. numerically in ponails sterling, bad nut been
diminished ; tlo.ug Is it was a got scion whether the ,tittl
they now i ussessell would not go so fur in the pur-
chase of I. e necessaries or comforts of life, as the
larger nominal sum would heretofore. It therefore
because, MI least, a fair snattel of consideration, si he-
ther the salaries of the great Ottldir te.lieers Which had
been increased (luting the depreciation Of the currency,
should not also sutler re•lnction.
'I he clause %las uerrosl to. The 11,,11ge resu•ned,
and the report was Ordered to be revelled to-ntorcow.—
Adjonrneol.

THE I'HoGRESS PITLIc OPI.VIO.V
UN PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
No. XIII.

MR. PURKL., ORJEI-114.N.: TO A :AtO..T I VRATION RR

P.ttiLl
/Com tided jrt.m oar Paprr of Maradat )
It i, 11 More r. sut rfasufill for a
radio al Itelortio in P.lrliallient, or thr extension of the
elective Latteloise. than are suggested loy the following
representotious which 11r. Potrkto Words of the Mote
of the present corruptions, while ior is labouring to
shrw the evils, which, nutter the existing systent, uou.d
result f f.roptent elections
•• Theory, I ' sirs lir, .` wonlol suppose, that
every Keorral election is to the Representative a day of
judgment, in which he appe.irs before his constitmentoo
hs aceuunt for the use o' the talent with whirh they
eatrusted him, anol of the impro.vesuent he bas made t
of it for the public ads atotage. It wonlol be so, if
every corruptible Ilepresentative were to find an en- !
lightened and iterotroptible constituent. Pont the
practice and knuttledge of the norld will nut r
us to be ignorant, that the constitution oil paper is
one thing, and in fart and experience is a !wilier. We
st know that the randidate, instead of trusting at
his election to the testimony of his behaviour in Parlia-
ment, must bring the testimony rot' a large suns of mousy, I
the rapacity of liberal expense in entertainments, the
power of serving and obliging the rnlrrs of corporations,
of wit 11l i l ig, over the popular le.olers of polilirrl elttba.
associations and neighbuotrboolls. It is ten thousand
times inure necessary to slim himself a man of power
than a man of integvite, in al . tost all the elections
with which I hale been acoplainto tl. Elections, there-
fore, become a matter of briny expense; and if con-
tests are freoptent, to many they will heroine a utatter
of an expense to.ally ruinous. u Melt no fortunes ran
bear; hut least of all the landed fortunes, etsrutsiber..tl
as they often, indeed as they mostly are, with debts,
with portion‘, with jointures; and tied up in the hands
of the possessor by the limitatiodo• of settlement. It
is a material, it is in my opinion 0 lastilg considera-
tion. in all the optestions concerning election. Let no
one think the charges of elections a trivial matter.

"The charge, ther, fore, of e!ec:ions might never to
1w lost sight of, in a questimt rimeerning their frt.- ;
qucucy ; because the grand oli.ect you seek is lode-
prudence. Independence of mind will ever be more
or less influenced by independence of fortune; anal if, I
every three years, the exhausting sluices of entertain-
spent*, drinkings, open house., to say nothing of lid- ,
!wry, arc to be periodically drawn up and renewed ; if
liovernment-favours, fur whirl, now, in sonic shape or
other, the whole rare of morn are candidates, are to be
called fur on every occasion, I are that private fortunes
will be washed away, anal every, even to the least, trace
of independence, borne down by the torrent. I do not
seriously think this constitution, even to the wrecks
of it, could survive five triennial elections. If you are
to fight the battle, you must put cm the armour of the
ministry ; you roust call in the path lie, to the aid of
private money. The expense of the last election has
been compote(' (anal I :nn permitalleil that it has not
been over-rated) at I,:ittlyinti 0. :—tlirre shillings in
the pound more in the land-tax. About the close of
the last Parliament, and the lw!ri tttt ing of this, several
agents for hor.inglis went and I remember well
that it was in every one of their mouths—' Sir, your
election will cost you 3,0110/. if von are independent;
' but if the ministry supports you, it may he alone for
two, anal perhaps for less,'—anal, indeed, the thing
spoke itself. Where a Living was to be gut for one,
a Comniission in the Army fur another, a lift in the
Navy for a third, sad Custom-110ov offices scattered
about without measure air number, who tlouh a but ,
money may be saved ? The Tres'ory may even add
money ; lint indeed it is superfluous. ? gentleman of
2,0611'. a year, who meets another of the same fortnne,
fights with equal arms ; but if to one of the candi-
dates you add a thousand a year in places for himself..
sod a power of gibiug away as much among others, I
one moist, or there is no truth in arithmetical demon-
titration, ruin his adversary, if lie k to met him and to '
fight with him every third year. It will be said I do
nut allow for the operation of character; but I do;
and I know it will have its weight in !nest elections;
perhaps it may be decisive in some. lint there are
few in which it will prevent great expenses.
" The destruction of independent fortunes will be
the consequence on the part of the candidate. What
will be the conaequetire of triennial corruption, trien-
nial drunkenness, triennial idleness, triennial law-
suits, litigation', prosecutions, triennial phrensy, of
widely dissolved, industry interrupted, ruined; of
those personal hatreds, that will never be suffered to
soften; those animosities and fends, which will be
rendered immortal ; those quarrels, which are never
to be appeased ; morals vitiated and gangrened to the
vitals? I think no stable and useful advantages were
ever made lay the money got at elections by the voter,
hut all lie gets is doubly lust to the public ; it is
I looney given to diminish the general stock of the
community, which is in the inilit"try of the subject. I
an; sure that it is a good while before he or his family I
settle again to their business. Their heads will never
'cool; the temptations of elections will he for ever
glittering before their eyes. 'llls y will all grow poli-
ticiaus; every one, quitting his bitsiness, will choose I'
to enrich himself by his vote. They will all take the I.
goofing- o !; fit Vl' VialeCal will be wade fur them; they II

will ran to the Custoni-house quay, their looms and
ploughs will he deserted.
" So was Rime destroyed by the disorders of conti-
nual elections, though those of Rome were sober dis-
orders. 'I hey had nothing bat faction, bribery,
bread, and stage plays, to debauch them. There the
contra was only between citizen and citizen ; here
you have the contests of ambitious citizens on one
side, supported by tile Crown, to oppose to the efforts
(let it be so) of pirate and Loom, parted ambition un
the other. Yet Rome was destroyed by the frequency!
and charge of elections, anal the :monstrous expense of
an um-emitted courtship to the people. I thick, there-
fore, the independent candidate and elector may each lie
destroyed by it; the whole boilv of the conmoinity will
Ise an infinite sufferer; and a vicious ministry the only
gainer. tietithalien. I know, feel the weight of this
argument: they agree that lb:, rota,' be Ile ryas..
yoince of inure fro/rent elections, IV TIANT./ WEIR TO
CoNTINCI: AS TIIKY AXE. But they think the treat-
was and frequency o the evil would itself be a rewelly
for it; that, sitting but for a %hurt time, the Member
would not tied it worth while to make such vast ex-
' pen-es, while the fear of their constituents will hold
them the more effectually to their duty.
" To this I answer, that experience is full against
them. *I his i= no new thing: we have had triennial
Parliaments. At Ito period of time were seats store
eseerly ~attested. The ...citruses of elections ran
higher. taking the state of all charges, than they du
now. The ex penselif entertainments was such, that an
Act, equally severe and ineffectual, was made atrainst it.
Every !! iument of the time bears witness of the ex•
prim.: and tof the Acts against corruption in
elections were then made. All the writers talked of,
it and lamented it. Will ally one think that a corporation
will be contented with a howl of pate.h, or a piece of
beef the less, because elections are retry three, in-!
stead of every seven years ? Will they change their,
wine for ale, because they are to get e ale three!
years hence ? Don't think it. Will they make fewer
demands fur the advantages 4.f patronage in favours,
and offices, breatise their 31emlwr is brought more un-
der t' .'r 1 tower? We have not wily our own historical!
experience in linglaini upon this subject, but we have
the expelienre co-existing with us in Ireland, where, !
since their Parliament has been shortened, the expense
of elections has beets so far (rolls being lowered,
that it has been very hear doubled. Formerly they
sat fir the King's life. The ordinary charge of a
seat in Parliament was then 1,500/. They now sit
eight years, ((air sessions. It is now 2,500/. and up-
wards. '1
The spirit of etnnlation has also been ex-
tremely in.:meted ; and all who :ere acquainted with
the tone of that 1:0011try have no doubt that the spirit
is still grow ing ; that new candidates will take the
field ; that the contests will be more violent, and the!
expenses of elections larger than ever.
"It 'fever ran br otherwise. A seat in this (louse,'
for good purposes, for bad purposes, for no purposes
at all (except the mere eonsitleration derived from
being concerned in the public counsels) will ever be a
first-rate object of ambition in England. Ambition is
no exact calculator. Avarice itself does not calculate
strictly when it ;causes. flue thing is certain, that in
this political game the great lottery of power is that.
into which men will purchase with millions of ehaners
against teem. In Turkey, where the place. where the
fortune, where the head itself, are so insecure, that
scarcely any have died in their beds fur ages ; so that
the bow-string is the natural death of Bashaws; yet in
no country is power and distinction (precarious enotiebt
Doti knows, in all) sought for with such boundless
avidity as if the value of plare was enhanced by the
clanger and insecurity of its tenure. Nothing trill
ever make a seat in this (louse not an object of desire
to numbers, by any 'wens or at any charge. but the
depriving it of all power and all dignity : this will do
it. This is the true and only nostrum for that pur-
pose. But a :louse of Cum ttttt its without power and
without dignity, either in itself or its Members, is no
House of Commons for the purposes of this Constitution.
" But they will be afraid to art ill, if they know
that the day of their account is always near. I wish
it were true ; but it is not ; here again we have rape-
rience, and experience is against us. The distemper
of this age is a poverty of spirit au..l of getting; it is
trifling ; it is futile; worse titan ignorant, superficially
taught with the politics anti murals of girls at a
boariling-sal 1, rather than of men and of statesmen:
lint it is nut yet desperately wicked, or so scandalously
venal as ill foraier tithes Did not a triennial Parlia-
ment give up the national dignity, approve the peace
of Utrecht, and almost give up every thing else in
taking every step to defeat the Protestant sot:cession
Was nut the Constitution saved by those, who had no
election at all to go to, the Lords, because the Court
applied to electors, and by various means carried them
from th it true interests; so that the Tory Ministry
had a majority without an application to a single Mem-
ber'? Now its to the conduct of the Members, it was
,then far from purr and independent. Bribery was ill-
'finitely noire dagratit. A predecessor of yours, Mr.
Speaker, put the questinu of his own expulsion fisr
'bribery. Sir William Musgrave was a wise man: a
grave man ; an intlependant man ; a man of good for-
tune, and good family; however he carried on, while
in opposition, a traffic, a shameful traffic, with the Mi-
nistry. Bishop Hornet knew of 41,000/. which he had
received at une payment. I believe the payment of
autos in hard ttttt ney, plain naked bribery, is rare
among us. It was, then, far from uncommon.
" A triennial was near ruining, a septennial Parlia-
ment saved your l'onstitution ; nor perhaps have you
ever known a more flourishing period fur the union of
national prosperity, d gnity, and liberty, than the sixty
years you have passed under that constitution of Par-
liament.*

The shortness of time, in which they are to reap
the profits of iniquity, is far from checking the avidity
of corrupt men ; it renders them infinitely more ra-
venous. They rush violently and precipitately on

• The compliment paid, la this passage, to t►e constitution
of Parliament. and the condition of tits kingdom at t►e pe-
riod referred to, might be;triklogly contrasted with t►e sen-
timents expressed b}• Mr. Burke himself, not long befo►e,
and immediately lifter, respecting the pernicious teadeney of
'ministerial and eneonsthntionsi ialuence on the antra of

Mate, and the Interests of the country. This boasted syaSes
Isis been thirty put to the test of 'aperient-v. Forty yeas
have passed since It received the adulation of Mr. Burke;
the eonstitolloa of Part!gloved has continued nnreforsed ;
land whet is aOlit the ecestiltion of the Uoverpatent and
P"Fle