The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-03-01 00:00:00

kept out, m hen they ought to be disembodied ?
Should the security of our liberties depend on what
Ministers might them expedient ?—Our ancestors,
whose wisdom had been the theme•of such frequent
panegyrics in that House, had thought proper to im-
pose restraints on the Prerogative of the Crown ;
but the Attorney and Solicitor-General said, that as
long as any part of the militia remained embodied,
Ministers might call out again such part as had been
discharged. There need be no danger of invasion,
uo rebellion, no insurrection ; it depended only on
the discretion of the Crown. Let the House con-
sider what might he the consequence of this prece-
dent in after times. If Gentlemen complained of
the conduct of Ministers on this occasion, it was
said, that they were exciting discontents ; but if
they remained silent, it would afterwards be al-
leged,
that they acquiesced in such proceedings.—lt
had been stated,that there were two Acts of Parliament
relative to the Local Militia, which would assist in
exposing tine meaning of this law. Those Acts had
fixed a period for disembodying the militia ; and,
therefore-, it was said, that because no time had been
limited In the particular Act in question, it remained
in the discretion of the King to disembody the mi-
litia at his pleasure. But what inference was to be
drawn from those Acts ?—Did any person pay at-
tention to them when they were passed ?—Would it
be said, then, that an Act of Parliament which un-
derwent
no discussion, had settled all doubts upon
the question ?—No possible inference could be de-
rived from such Acts, except that the. Local Militia
was to be disembodied when the danger had ceased
which had occasioned them to be called out. The
simple question was, whether the cause of embody,
Ing the militia had ceased ? Tile way in which Mi-
nisters had acted, must have a tendency to destroy
all that was excellent in this species of force. He
would ask, whether they could have devised more
effectual means for that purpose, when a man who
had accepted a commission for a limited time, was to
be told that he must be continued during the plea.
sure of his Majesty's Ministers ? But the hardships
which this conduct imposed on the privates was much
greater. On the higher classes of the community the
1 militia was nothing more than a tax ; but the lower
orders, who had not the means of providing substi-
tutes, were detained from their families, and sub-
jected to military law against their wills. He could
not approve of an expression of an Hon. Baronet,
who was not then in the House, who had condemned
the whole military law ; but the circumstance of his
Majesty's subjects being exposed to that law, while
they had not the consolation of thinking, that it was
for the protection of the country and their families,
operated very powerfully on his mind. They were
now detained, not for the purpose of repelling inva-
sion—not to suppress insurrection or rebellion, but
merely because contests were going on between ambi-
tious Princes, and Ministers thought proper to con-
tinue a large military force upon the Continent.—
lie should therefore move a Resolution, "`That nine
months having elapsed since a definitive Treaty of
Peace was signed with France, and this country being
now at • peace with all the world, and in a state of
internal tranquillity, it was contrary to the Act of
the 42d of Geo, 1 tl. c. 90, to continue any part of
the militia etnhneied."

Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST said, he was not
surprised that the lion. and Learned Gentleman
Ishould persist in the views he had formerly taken of
this subject. He could not, however, but differ
I materially from him. In the first place, the lion.
and Learned Gentleman had stated, that the situ.
ation of the country was not the same at this mo-
meet as when the question was before discussed.—
No alteration, however, had taken place in the I
I situation of the country ; for he (Mr. B.) considered,
that the war with America was not at an end, until
the Definitive Treaty of Peace was ratified. Till
! that period arrived, we must be at war with the United
States, and continue our exertions. It had also been
I thought necessary, with respect to our foreign re-
lations, to keep a large military force upon the Con-
tinent. The country, therefore, was precisely in the
same situation. It was time,he said,that the Militia Act
did not enable the Crown to call the militia together '
without a reason; but if the obvious meaning of Par-
liament was, that they should continue embodied no
longer than the cause of calling them out continued,
then it was utterly impossible that they should not
have exercised the same caution, and expressed as
much in precise words, which it was certain they had
not done. Ministers, however, had not in this case
acted merely upon their own responsibility; for did
the Learned Gentleman know, that a sum was
actually voted by Parliament before Christmas for
the pay of the militia. Ile questioned very much
whether the Hon. Gentleman knew this.—[ Yes, yes,
from Sir S. RomiUy.]—Why then, here was Par-
Bement, in November last, six months after the peace,
noting a sum for the remaining militia, so that they
were, in fact, continued under the sanction of Par-
liament. The* House had also negatived a former
motion of the lion. Member, similar to the present.
—The militia, therefore, had not been kept on
foot, merely on some principles of expediency,
fancifully exercised by the Crown, but Parliament
bad sanctioned the measure from a sense of its ex-
pediency. He then adverted to the calling nut of
the militia during the American war, in Lord Nnrin's
Administration. The ground was the probable oc-
currence of a war with France, but that Noble
Lord did not hesitate to state that the danger of in-
easion was a bugbear. In fact, if the Act was to be
construed literally, lie did not see why the same
hardships might not have been complained of by the
mirtiamen, on which the Learned Gentleman had
dwelt so feelingly at various periods of the late war,
when the danger of invasion appeared over, and the
course of hostilities was directed into widely dif-
ferent characters. The principle on which they were
still kept up under such circumstances, was this,—
; a principle recognised in Addresses of the House,—
that it was to enable the Crown to send the regular
troops out of the country, for the purposes of ac-
' live warfare. On a similar principle a portion of the
militia had bean still kept on foot. The peace with
America was not yet ratified; we had a large body
of troops employed in offensive operations against
that country, and the final settlement of the ar-
rangemeots of vice on the Continent was thought to
require the presence of a large body of British
troops. The Learned Gentleman had acknowledged,
that the circumstance of our"prosimity to France,

authorised during a war, even though there wa,
apparent dati.;-er of inve.iess, the keeping of I:,e
militia on foot. B a purity of reasoning, a portion
of the militia might be retained. n ith a view tpa„nk
that final settlement which was likely to prevent the
breaking out of hostilities on the Coniitteet. Asti
the comments which the Learned Gentleman ha 4
chosen to make on the written opinions of the At.
torney and Solicitor General he would
.only say, ths
they were the legal advisers of the Crown to eeboo;
it applied, for their opinion, in the same way assn,,
client might do to the Learned Gentleman itimsr;f.
They gave their opinion upon the case submitted
them as advocates, just as the Learned Gent. wooldd,
to his clients, telling them that their case was ei:itori
good or a bad one. Such was the nature of the
vice which the Attorney and Solicitor General were
bound to give to the Crown. Tho Learned Gent. halt
adverted to the speed with which the militia were
disembodied after the peace of Amiens. But it should
be recollected that at that period the peace was fui'y
complete; there were no farther arrangements to be
made; and if, as the Hon. Gentleman argued, there
was then strong ground of apprehension from the
ambitious views of the French Government, an argue
ment of this kind would tend to give Government a
much wider discretion than any they now claimed,
He would now add only a word or two on the sup.
posed effects of the proceeding on the minds of tha
militia. The Learned Gent. had stated, as contribut.
ing to the hardship of their case, that they weremost
of them on compulsory service. This he denied, ba.
lieving that nine out of ten of them were substitutes.
Then the LeartsedGent. seemed to adopt the language
of an Hon. Baronet, not in the House, of this being
a degraded nation, liable to the lash [No, no,
ifrumg
Sir S. Romilly]. At least he stated as if the conduct
of Government gave some kind of colour to this len.
guage. He acknowledged that the cases of the nil&
tiamen retained were of a trying kind, but he hart
not heard that they had felt them as any more than;
necessary sacrifice on their part to the general wet.
fare. Besides, both during and since the recess se.
veral regiments had been disembodied, and others
were in progress of being so.
Mr. ABERCHOMBY supported the motion et
some length. The grand reason why the minty
were not disembodied was now acknowledged to be
the supposed necessity of keeping British troops is
Flanders, for the fear of a rupture of the negocia.
tions at the Congress. He found nothing, however,
in the Militia Act which authorised their being kept
up from a view to political consequences. He knew,
from good authority, that the circumstance of some
regiments being kept embodied, while ethers were
disbanded,thad been felt most deeply by the men : and
it also unfortunately happened,.that those regiments
which had shown the greatest zeal by volunteering
their services for Ireland, had been the greatest suf.
ferers, by the very circumstance of their absence from
England.

the Hon. F. DOUGLAS said, that while we
were in a state of war, the country might always be
considered- as in danger of invasion. Our coast
i might from time to time be exposed to the landing
and depredations of the crews of those large frigates
!employed in the American service, as well as of their
Inumerous privateers, and the militia would he a force
well adapted to protect the country in such cases,.
The motion, therefore, had his deetded opposition.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he and his
Learned Friend (the Solicitor-General) had been se
distinctly put on their trial, that, if they remained
silent, it might be supposed they had altered the
opinion they had formerly given, but that they were
i not manly.enough to stand forward and avow it.—
The fact, however, was, that their opigion was
i strengthened and confirmed by every thing they had
since heard on the subject. his Learned Friend had
observed on the precipitation with which their opinion
had been given. The best answer to this observatioa
was to be found in the Speech of his Lamed Friend
—who admitted, that the question was so little hi-
volved in technicalities, as to be plain and manifest
to the most ordinary capacities. Besides, he most
know, that Gentlemen of the profession to which he
belonged were frequently called on for opinions at
moments, when, if they could, they would willingly
refrain from giving them. His Learned Friend
seemed to think that the opinion which had been
given by the Law Officers of the Crown ought to have
emanated from the Judges of the land ; but, he was
sure, that. those who were most anxious for the pore
administration of justice would deprecate such a pro-
ceeding, unless the questlott came before them judi-
cially. The Attorney-General then proceeded to
defend himself and his colleague from the insissua-
tion of their having given an opinion, not the result
of their own unbiassed consideration, bat with a
view to meet the feelings of the Ministers of the
11 Crown. He contended that it was most preposter-
ous to suppose, that they would deliver an opinion
to a Secretary of State, knowing that opinion to be
erroneous. Their judgment might he wrong—bat
it could not be imagined, that they would wilfully
lead one, to whom they were said to be attached,
into an error. With respect to the remark of Ins
Learned Friend, on the propriety of his ccothining
the two offices of Chief Justice of Chester and At-
torney-General in his own person, Ire would remind
him, that he was not the only person who had held
those two situations—and be was convinced that it
the Noble Lord (Kenyon) who was once appointed
to them, had conceived that there was any thing ob-
jectionable in the transaction, he would have de-
clined accepting of the two offices. Cases had, how-
ever, occurred, in which the Judges were called on
for their opinions, on prints that were likely to
come before them judicially at some future period.—
Of thit description was the question propounded to
all the Judges. with Lord Mansfield at their head,
who, being asked whether an individual, who had
been in the army, but who had seceded from the ser-
vice, could be tried by Court-Martial, for offences
alleged to have been committed, while he was con-
nected wiqi it, answered in the affirmative—reserv-
ing to themselves, if the case ever came before them,
a right to alter their opinion ; if, on farther consi-
deration, it appeared necessary. When he (the At•
torney-General) gave his opinion with respect to the
militia, he reserved to himself a similar right. lie
still, however, continued of opinion, that the Crown
might keep the militia embodied after it had once been
drawn out.

`;ir A. PIGGOTT observed, that, in 1792, when