The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-05-03 00:00:00

Mr. J AMES MULLENEUX asked what sum was necessary
to carry the gardens on,•••=in other words, what amount of
increased subscriptions would be necessary ?
The CHAIRMAN, in reply, said that £BOO a-year would
enable the committee to carry on the gardens. For the last
year their real income from subscribers had been about
£771. 12s. 6d.

Mr. MULLENEUX observed that £l5O additional were
then required.

The CHAIRMAN added, that the interest charged by the
bank was included in the £BOO. £BOO a-year barely enabled
them to carry on the gardens.
Mr. MULLENEUX.—Tben what should you want besides ?
The CHAIRMAN.—About £2OO. The permanent income
made a total of £774. 12s, 6d.

Mr. 'WRIGHT remarked, that then there was only £26
short of the £BOO necessary to carry on the gardens.
Mr. M uLLENEUX.—You stated that you wished to increase
the number of subscribers, and you found no result.
The CHAIRMAN.—None at all.
Mr. MULLENEUX thought that many of the proprietors
might engage to obtain at least five additional subscribers.
Mr. MATHER said if Mr. Mulleneux had attended the
former meetings he would have known that this subject had
been fully discussed, and that the plan had been found quite
unavailing.

Mr. ICADLEY said that the subscription, two guineas,
was too high ; and he recommended that a rate should
be levied for one year upon all subscribers, to obtain the
means necessary to place the gardens out of debt. Those
subscribers who would not pay the rate, he would exclude.
A rate of five guineas from every subscriber would relieve
the gardens from debt ; but until that had been done no new
subscribers would join, as they would be rather fearful of
some liability coming upon them.
Mr. TAYLOR said that one-half the subscribers would give
up if any attempt was made to levy a rate upon them.
Mr. MATHER stated that a contribution of £lO and up-
wards had already been paid by a large proportion of the pro.

_ . .
prietors.
Mr. RADLEY said the advantage of levying a rate would be
that the gardens might be carried on at a moderate expense
afterwards.

Mr. WRIGHT questioned whether the committee had any
power under the deed of settlement to levy a rate.
Mr. RADLEY repeated that the subscription was too high.
Many tradesmen, he knew, would join, if it were fixed at a
more moderate sum, but they certainly would not at its pre-
sent rate, whilst the gardens were in debt.
_ _

Mr. MATH ER said the subscription for proprietors was a
guinea and a half a year, and it was unreasonable to allow
annual subscribers who were not proprietors to be admitted
upon the same terms. The motion he made at the last meet-
ing was, that annual subscribers should be admitted, on pay-
ment of two guineas, to the same privileges as proprietors.
The CHAIRMAN.—We had annual subscribers, previous
to the last meeting, of one guinea.
Mr. M ATIIER.—Yes, but only twenty; and for the sake
of twenty guineas you depreciated the value of all the shares.
Mr. ROBINSON inquired the valuation of the property ?
The CH AIRMAN replica that there was no valuation made
last year ; but when it was offered to the corporation Mr.
Okill's valuation was £BOOO.
Mr. ROBINSON said the gardens were too far off to be
supported, and he feared besides that they did not meet the
taste of the people here. He would therefore propose that
they be sold unless some means could be found for carrying

them on.
The Rev. Mr. MARTINEAU said the circumstances under
which the proprietors met now were more favourable than
those under which they met two years ago. The debt then
was £lOOO ; now it was only £2700. Their ineume was now
almost equal to the expenditure, including the interest on
the debt to the hank; and if it were not for that debt, or if
a reduced rate of interest were
It accepted, no effort would be
required to keep up the gar llens- appeared to him, there-
fore, that if the debt could be transferred from the bank to
some gentlemen who would allow it to lie in small portions
in their own hands, upon a low rate of interest or no interest
at all, the committee would soon be in a condition gradually
to pay off the debt. He did not think a case had been made
out for selling the gardens.
Mr. MULLENEUX inquired what interest they paid an-
nually upon the debt?
The CHAIRMAN replied £5 per cent.
Mr. T. HARVEY confessed that coming as he did fresh to
these matters, he felt grieved, he might say shocked, at the
probability of the gardens being sold, and consequently ex-
tinguished, upon the ground of the disgrace such an event
would reflect upon the town, as well as the deprivation of a
rational recreation. At Leeds, Manchester, and Dublin
there were similar gardens flourishing, and he should deeply
regret if the Liverpool garden were extinguished. He was
struck with the proposition just made for an effort to pay off
the sum of money due to the bank. If it were true that the
property of the garden could be mortgaged to any persons
who were willing to lend the money, there were, he thought,
abundance of gentlemen in Liverpool able and willing to pro-
vide sufficient to pay off the bank. Or, they might pay off
£2,000 and leave the other £7OO to remain. Gentlemen who
were really disposed to befriend the gardens, would lend
their money at 2/ or 3 per cent. He repeated, hewas struck
with the proposition, and thought it deserving of serious
consideration. _

Mr. BROOKES said there had been a proposal of this kind
made before and it did not answer.
The SECRETARY' stated that the gardens, at the time of
their removal to the present site, cost £13,300. The expenses
of the land were 4000 guineas, and £9OOO were paid for glass,
building, &c., and if they were sold at the present time there
would be an enormous sacrifice. Out of the whole £13,300
there was only the real property upon which dependence
could be placed.
Mr. Alderman TURNER inquired whether an offer had not
been made to purchase the gardens ?
The CHAIRMAN, in reply, said there had been ; but he did
not consider that it was to be brought forward until it had
been decided whether or not the gardens should be sold. If
sold, it would be under the condition that they should be
kept open as a place of public resort.
Mr. HOLT thought it premature to enter upon that subject
before a resolution had been passed to sell them. If it was
determined to sell them, the committee would dispose of
them in the best manner, with a provision for the study of
botany, or for making the most of them in the way of money.
Mr. MULLENEUX said Mr. Robinson had moved that the
gardens be sold.
Mr. ROBINSON said he would withdraw his motion, if it
was the determination of the meeting to keep them on, for he
should be very sorry to see them given up. But he did not
see any prospect of that, and therefore he wished some deci-
sion to be come to.

Mr. WRIGHT asked what objection there would be to the
committee applying to the corporation to lend the money to
pay off the debt at a low rate of interest ? There was ample

security for the payment of the debt.

. _
Mr. MARTINEAU moved a resolution to the effect that the
committee be instructed to borrow any sum of money neces-
sary to pay off the whole or chief part of the debt upon
security of the land, and at a rate of interest sufficiently low
to bring the expenditure within the income.
Mr. MULLENEUX seconded the motion.
Mr. WRIGHT said Mr. Ma-tineau probably was not aware
that the proprietors had paid a sum of money for which they
received no interest whatever. An attempt had then been

made to pay off the whole debt, hut it did not succeed

Part of the debt, however, had been raised by some of the
proprietors; they were receiving no interest for their money,
and •hathought it rather bard that the parties who came for-
ward to lend money now should receive 3or 4 per cent.,
whilst those who advanced money before received no interest
whatever. _ _

Mr. MARTINEAX said the object of the former effort was
not that the money should be lent by way of loan, on which
interest was to be paid, but that it should be given.
The CHAIRMAN said it was money given to the gardens so
long as the gardens remained unsold ; but when the gardens
were sold the parties who advanced the money were to be

paid.
Mr. MARTINEAU added that so long as the gardens were
kept up the advance was not to be repaid.
Mr. MATHER.—Then they will have a prior claim before
the mortgagee.
Mr. MARTINEAU.—It was not the intention at that time
to raise up a body of subscribers to pay interest to them-
selves, but to sell the gardens.
Mr. WRIGHT, for one, did not wish to sell the gardens,
nor did he expect to receive interest for what he had ad-
vanced; but still, if this motion (Mr. Martineau's) was put,
he should move an amendment that an application be made to
the corporation to lend the money at a low rate of interest.
Mr. MARTINEAU said the terms of his resolution left it
open for that.
Mr. HOLT suggested that Mr. Martineau's resolution should
be modified in such a manner as to include an application to
the corporation.
Mr. MATHER.—With what case can you go before the
corporation, or any other persons, to borrow money, with a
first mortgage existing for the money lent by the proprietors ?
Mr. WRIGHT.—There is no legal mortgage.
Mr. MATHER.—But the money is to be repaid when the
gardens are sold.
Mr. WRIGHT.—I, for one, will forego mine.
The CHAIRMAN repeated that the money already advanced
would have to be repaid only in case of the gardens being

sold.
Mr. HARVEY said it would be very easy, if the proposition
was entertained in any quarter, to add the thousand pounds,
or whatever it was, which some proprietors had contributed,
to the mortgage, so that it could stand upon interest.
Mr. HOLT observed that he had contributed for no other
object than to support the gardens, and having done so he
would waive any claim to the repayment of his money. The
claim for interest ought not to interfere with keeping up the
gardens they should give the mortgage priority of claim.
The CHAIRMAN again intimated his conviction that no
aid whatever might be expected from the council.
Mr. Alderman TURNER agreed with the chairman, that
there was no chance of the corporation lending any money.
Mr. ROBINSON said, that in order to bring the question
to a point, he would move, as an amendment on Mr. Marti-
neau's motion, that the gardens be sold.
Mr. BROOKES seconded the proposition.
The Rev. A. CAMPBELL supported the proposition for sell-
ing the gardens, on the ground that the puttlic taste afforded
no encouragement for botanical pursuits.