The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-01-20 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN

was ns-ieussity fie the people to 'rupee* their—ollintass
irsily,blearlv—be wed not how respectful the lairiage
used.. The Petition he intended to, submit set out by
declaiming all party views, it appealed to Parliament,
re.great, and.seeing that Ministers,
lahourtng under error, did nut intend to relieve the
agricusturista. It wisi said that the Petition from Not-
ion( rerotan3eatied a reduction of the debt; it was not
absolutely a reduction that the County of Norfolk
prayed for, but an equitable reduction of the public
siebt. And what did the Reenlutions ? They re-
commended a repeal of Mr. Peel's Bill—that was the ob-
ject of Mr. Western—and what would be the effect of a
measure of that kind? why it would take two-thirds of
the interest of the debt away without a reason—it would
do great injustice and effect no good—it would plunge a
new set of persons into misery and ruin. He could tell
them whit will be the event of Mr. Western's proposi-
tion. When Parliament meet Mr. Western will submit
that proposition to the house. It wilt give rise to a
great contest, and a most animated discussion. The
Landlords, as indeed they ought, will feel ansious to
reduce the debt. Mr. Western's motion, however, will
' be lost—it will be defeated by a great majority; but
during the discussion many Members will declare
themselves really, when a proposition is brought for-
e ard to reduce the interest of the debt, dirsctly to vote
for The lattet point, however, was cootingeut. I f
the County Members shall find themselves backed ty the
errantry, they will speak out as they onght to do—they
will demand a redue,ion of the debt—a reform of abuses,
in a voice, that must be obeyed. Tile consequence,
mustile. the going out of office of the present Mioisters
—bad news, he believed, for those Gentlemen by whom
l
the Resolutions of that day were proposed—but oat
they should go, and another set of men would come is,
who would shortly put all to rights. With that motive,
and fur the reasons be bed stated, lie would submit his
Petitiun to the consideration of the Meeting, and he•
would reserve himself to reply to any observations
that might be offered against him. One part of the
Petition prayed for a suspension of the power of distraint.
Another past prayed for a suspension of the pro-
cess of enforcing tithe for one year. To re-
strain the rower of distraint was not intended, and in-
deed could not affect the landlords of that county ; it
was intended only to protect from ruin those who bad
to conteud against oppression; it was intended only to
affect unjust end cruel landlords apd mortgagees • it
would be nugatory as far as concerned the Noble mortgagees;
ine`the Chair, and the greater part of the landlords of the
county. It would indeed he useful Mike to landlord
and tenant ; for before the expiratino of the year, n
adjustment could take place useful and satisfactory to
both parties. Where then was. Cue violence of the
measure ; and as to precedent, war there not in Act to
suspend cells payments? Nay, mpre, without any Act
at all—without the sanction of. arliament, but merely
by Orders inCouncil,the Bank, which was in debt to all
the country, was authorised to refuse the payment of its
deists in cash. Did not the Parliament last year, with-
out consideration, without inquiry, and in the course of
eight and forty hours, suspend the laws, such as they
were, which gave protection to the people of Ireland ?
laws which, compelled the farmers to remain within
doors from sun set to sup rise, under the penalty of being'
transported without judge or jury.—(Loud murmurs.)
—The Act was recorded, and what was the EXCUSE ?
Why, that the safety of the country imperiously demaqd-
ed it. Was the re nothing imperious, he syJnid ask, is
the necessity of the present time? Was the farmer
under no apprehensions? Many of 'them now looked in
his f tee who would consider themselves happy if. they
were satisfied that they could remain in safety tor, oils
year. 'llse proposition might do acts of injustice, here I
and there, it might do souse harm; bat where was the I,
tar that was perfect? There was nothing absolutely per-
feet in human affeirs.To do great good,meo must submit
to souse evil, but here the good so much pendoloinated
shove the evil, that he was persuaded, the proposition,
if dilly considered, would meet with approbation. For
the landlords themselves, he contended it was a shield
of protection. He would have been glad some years
azo to have been protected, but his mortgage was fore-
' closed, and be lost 13,0001. He lost his property, but it
happened to hiss, Olathe did not consider it a matter of
' greot consequence, but from a blow of that kind there
were not many men whose circumstances and situation
would enable them to recover; what could be more
• efilicting,and yet what more frequent titan the case of a
son inheriting from his father an estate, long the pride
' and support of his family—the estate saddled with a
mortgage—the mortgage foreclosed—the son pat in
gaol, and the estate for ever alienated [Applause]. The
• Noble Lord had compared the landlords and tenants to
' mariners at sea, but there was some danger in the figure.
The agriculturalists suffered, but they did not suffer
from shipwreck—they did not suffer by the act of God,
but by the perverseness of pan—they did not suffer by
• accident, bat by the acts of the Government and the
Paliament[applausel. There was no evil of which the
country complained, which might not be directly traced
to an Act of Parliament. It was wrong, therefore, to
impute the distress and the grievances of the people
s to tied or to accident. It was in the power of the Par-
s Bement to apply a remedy, and that remedy was set
. forth in the Petition which he was about to read. Ile
s would not detain the meeting by detailing all the argu-
meats which he might urge in favour of that document,
s he would only observe that there were not wanting
those who accused him and others of terrible re-
. volutionary designs—when words were used it was
right to uuderstand distinctly their meaning. What
s was Revolution? Revolution was change. After all,
what did the landlord care about Revolution more than
s to preserve Isis estate; lie dreaded Revolution, because
the poor and the strong might take away the money and
i the land from the tick The Government at the present
moment were carrying on a Revolution as complete and
as absolute as was ever effected. On that assertion he
would pledge his reputation. Mr. Western celled it con-
fiscation, and Lord Stourton said the same ; he (Mr. Cob-
• bets) called it a Revolution, and he would say before that
meeting and before the country. that it was a Revolution
which produced a greater transfer of property—more confis-
cation—more plunder—more public robbery—than were
produced from the beginning to the end of the French Re-
volution. To put a stop to that Revolution, he would
submit the Petition !le held in his hand. It was impos-
sible to go on without a decided reduction of the debt,
but it was impossible to accomplish that unless all
sinecures were abolished—unless all unworthy and
sinnecsury places shared the same-fate. It was impossi-
ble to interfere with the Fundholder, unless the Church.
—the rich Church—contributed to the public necessity
a part of what it really did not want. The Crown Lands
might also he applied to liquidate the debt; lie was
atisfied (having deeply considered the subject) that the
Crown Lands would go, if properly applied, to liquidate
one hundred millions of the debt. If those things were
done—lf the Church and the Army were reduced—if all
others wade sacrifices, then might the people at large
come forward with a good face, and say to the Fund-
holders, " Yon must reduce also."—[When Mr.Cobbett
concluded, Ise was greeted with loud cheers from one
part of the meeting, and with strong marks of disap-
probation from another part.]
The NOBLE Loan in the Choir, said he wished to know,
whether Mr. Cohbott intended to read his Petition as a part
of Isis speech
Mr. Coarsen Maid It was his intention to read his Petition'
ant then propose a Revelation by way of amenditamt, tha
It be adopted as the Petition of the Meeting.
• Mr. Coaesserr then proceeded to read his Petition; Wins
rls substance the some as that adopted by the County of NOP

folk, except that It tisetainca in addition the following intro-
ductory paragevh:— la
. That veer Petiners, casting from them all party maxim, and care-
I fall? avoidiag all party ermtests, most oily approach pow Ito
Pourable llouse with an explicit avowal orfeZ:rrlopinions, as W the ca.as
of that state of things, which dimities to make the exchange for the
poorhouse the 11111.8001111 and heassistimat of their fathers—with se "mare
tjokjtas explicit as SO the best means of saving them and their 'Mollies
aft a ehapge so unthecited—with as expression of their appreitensto?s
11,1 to the awful constvihhies wilkh must result f a perseverance in
the attempt-1a 011•Iiik• the whole of the agrimilleral ',amenity to the
unjust claims of the receivers of taxes; and this expression they think s t
this moment the more necessary, as It appears M the. that his Mnje-t' 's
Ministers hate resolved, notwithstanding the notoriety of the 'offerings of
yonr Petitioners. to persevere In the present oppressive, ruinous, and. re-
volutionary course."
Mr. Conover observed, that no man could he blind not ugh
not to see that a revolution was going on—one German 4 ew
carried of two or three estates; if that was not runlet ion,
he did not know what revolution meant. He called for no-
thing new ; he would not recapitulate the wrongs of the
people, nor dwell at length on the acts of those who cs used
those wrongs. Ile did not call for vengeance on any man or
thing; he would wish, if possible, that the past niir,ht be
no longer remembered; but he felt it was necessary fur the
people to speak out, because if they were either sit tilt or
timid, they would get no remedy. Ile would as six -n con-
sent to hive his arms taken off, as under present circa instan-
ces to have a single shilling of the fends taken away. He
was not for interfering with the claims of the widow, or of
any body else; no, not even with the Jews, cordial!, as he
detested them. He felt, he confessed, a timid caudal as to
the modes of relief he should point oat, but finding the Gen-
tleman who proposed the Resolutions had proposed me ans of
relief, be proceeded to suggest moans also; and he hoped
the Meeting felt that those means were more Just aid raile-
rpi than those pointed out by the Gentleman at the other
side If the Meeting would do what was done at Norfolk,
I maYeiy thing would come round. On the question of Reform,
II wee Bald by Gentlemen in Parliament, that if the people
were left to themselves, they would-select low, vulgar, and
rant persons. Now that observation was certainly pay-
lag ao very high compliment to the people [a laugh]. Nor
was it paying a very extraordinary compliment to those Gen-
tiegten who sat in Parliament, and who were seat there by
thepeople [a laugh]. He (Mr. Cobbett) did not care about
any particular scheme of Reform. Ile knew that the Noble
Lord hail strong objections to Universal Suffrage. Well, he
(Mr. Cobbett) did not care about Universal Suffrage. All
he wanted was a Parliament that would substantially repre-
sent the people, and that would be a real cheek upon the
Ministers—(epplause). He wanted nothing but what the
illustrious ancestor of the Noble Lord so ably contended for
and accomplished—[vehement applause]. As to what had
been said oboist preventing ignorant persons from getting into
Parliament, really he thought that at that time of day, and
after what had passed, in point of common modesty no such
observation ought to have bees made in the House of Com-
mons—[' laugh]. lie recollected saying, whilit the Six
Acts were passing, that he would catch at random, by the
legs, any morning, 6.58 fellows going into the Leaden mar-
ket, as well informed on the effete% of the country as certain
Gentlemen of high name who sat in a place he would not
mention. He said so then—he would say no more now.
But whatever might he time information and the pretensions
of a certain assembly, be would not hesitate to say that it
would he impossible to pass laws more destructive to agri-
culturists than had been passed for the last five or six
years. "%Oat astonished hen was the forbearance of Noble
Lords end Country Gentlemen ; they suffer their estates to be
taken away bit by bit. They allowed a million of Money to
be taken away, for what ?—to build churches. lie would
ask those present, did the land want churches ? Were not
their churches big enough for the farmers? Oh, bat they
wanted churchea.for large eitiese—for Bristol, Liverpool and
London ; those 'places grew populous, and how f. Why by
the beggary of the villages and the cottages to be sure.
Then the fundholders came forward and said.in elect, the
landlords have given their rents and the tenants their capital
to us, we live togethet in large cities to spend your money ;
we are too thick ; we want more churches, for we are very
pious people ; pray do build bigger churches for as [a laugh].
Well the vote was proposed, and strange to say it was car-
ried by acclamation. Another vote was for another million
to build penitentiares—a penitentiary is a place for females
not remarkable for a very stoat and resisting elhpoiltion [a
laugh], and for their companions, bullies and thieves of the
male kind [a laugh]. Now, he begged of them to mark the
fully—no—he would call it the want of information and
clear sightedness of 1 indhulders in Parliament; they had to
take care of their own thieves in the country, but they should
exercise their humanity by in fact adding to the number of
strumpets and thieves in London [a laugh]. The vote for
one million was proposed, it wan carried. SirJesepit Yorke
ridiculed the monstrous proposition. Such acts must be ye.
panted unless the people be allowed to choose their own
Members ; be therefore prayed for Reform—he also prayed
for a repeal of various taxes. There was nothing novel in
his propositions—it was a cause of right or wrung, not of
old or new. There was a law at that moment iu existence,
preventing Lord King from &straining his tenants. Lord
King deprecated the depreciation of money ; he required
gold from his tenants, most of whom paid low rents, hut to
the luting disgrace of the Legislature, an Act was passed
to prevent Lord King from distraining, and that Art would
remain in force till the Ist of next May. The Petition,
therefore, only asked for an Act for the purposes of justice,
which had been formerly passed for the purpose of injust-
ice [applause].
The CRAIRMAR—Mr. Cohbett, what is your motion?
Mr. Conuirrr —My Lord, haring read the Petition, I
propose as an Amendment, to leave out all the words in the
Resolutions save the first word " Reeolved," [a Inuit] and
to insert these words—" That the Petition now read be the
Petition of this Meeting?"
Mr. PALMER seconded the Amendment. He did so from
a conviction that the causes of the distress were clearly stated
In the Petition. He was convinced that If landlords lowered
their rents and the proprietors of tithes lowered their charges,
the poor fanner would have some chance of getting a main-
tenance. They ought to be reduced to the standard of in.
When the agriculturists asked for relief, they were desired
to have patience. If any man were to preach patience to
him under such distress, by 0— he would sacrifice him—
[laughter and strong disapprobation.] Why, Gentleman
continued the Speaker), if I had the jawbone of an 115,,,.
a laugh], by G— [loud murmurs] I would serve him as
ampson served the Philistines—[uch lauiliter, and disap-
probation].
After some observations on points of order,
The Rev. Mr. SMYTHIss rose amid said, that he saw no rea-
son why the Resolutions should be thus got rid of. Surround-
ed as he wags by most of the rank and respectability of the
county, he did not see why he should sit silent to listen to a
man who had no interest in the county, and no fe-ling in
common with them. (Applause and hisses.) They had
heard Mr. Cobbctt with patit nce, lie trusted they would
hear every man. Ile had no feeling but in common
with them. He was one of the largest occupiers of land in
the comity, and he wns convinced that nothing could be ac-
complished without union. (Applause.) Ile knew that he
undertook a difficult task to reply to the practised eloquence
of Mr. Cobbett. and to his specious arguments. lie was not
in time habit of public speaking, but he could not sit silent and
hear a Petition such as was read brought forward by an iti-
nerant political tinker. (Loud hisses enswered by cheers.)
Had he only known Mr. Cobbctt for the first time that day,
lie would like many present have been captivated by his elo-
quence, and by time singular ingenuity of his arguments ; but
whets he knew that those great abilities had been prostituted
to every party (loud hisses and applause)—when he knew
that Mr. Cobbett commenced his political life the servile
writer for the Government, and its tool—when he knew that
Mr. Cobbett went out to America to put down the rising spi-
rit of independence there. and when his seta ices were no
longer useful he was dismisised by the Government, and then
he took tip a new set of principles, and turned upon his for-
mer employers. (Disapprobation, and crises of answer his
arguments from one side, cheers from the other.) Ile turn-
ed Whig—he became the associate of Sir Francis Burdett—
he never was time friend of any Mall ; —he then became a Ra-
dical, and he came before the county that day with his Peti-
tion, to prevent, as he was gond enough to say, a revolution,
We do not want (said the Speaker) Mr. Cobbett to state our
own sufferings, and to tell iis of the measures necessary to
be adopted. He would adopt a Petition, brought forward by
whom it might, if it were likely to lend to a redress of
grievances; but he was convinced that Mr. Cobbett's Pea-
don would not avail. He agreed with Mr. C. that every
thing short of an interference with the debt was nugatory'
With that mill-shoe around the neck of the country, it was
Impossible that she weld be over prosperous ; but be thought
that the ResalMloua, if acted on, would accomplish that mea.
sun to a tiO7 Ides oletulie to the fuodhokters. The grand

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