The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-03-08 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN

introduction of topics not immediately anticipated by
the Committee might require an apology. He should
have abstained on this occasion, but that it was the
only opportunity which he could take advantage of for
sonic time.
Mr H. SUMNER said be had no wish to prolong a
discussion upon the topics adverted to by the hon. and
learned gentleman, but he felt it necessary to state his
opinion, that the hon. and learned gentleman was in error
when be stated that his sentiments as to the policy to be
pursued by Great Britain in the present crisis were
those of the people. He (Mr. If. S.) tlid not look with
approbation upon- the conduct of France. He did not
think, even if it were politic for us to assist Spain, that
our assistance nook! he necessary. He believed that the
menaces of France carried very little danger with them
to the rising liberties of Spain, as they were called, or to
that Constitution, which was as little like liberty as their
lands was like property. lie would maintain that it was
physically impossible for France to possess herself of
Spain. Bonaparte with all his activity could not effect it.
The result would be the same as to any permanent dan-
ger to Spain from French troops. If they went in a small
number they most fail—if they went in greater force, then
greater nomberswould be destroyed. He trusted that there
was no treatyinexistence which would compel os to enteron
a war. The policy which reason and senseond the voice of the
people, pointed out on this occasion, for this country,
was neutrality.—(Hear, hear.) Ministers had one
plain obvious duty to perform; they should resolve
upon performing it steadily and faithfully—namely, to
tnainta;n peace.
Sir W.DE CRESPIGNY expressed it to be his opinion,
that it would be very impolitic in Ministers to engage
the country in a war at the present moment.
The Resolution was then put and carried.
Lord PALMERSTON then moved the grant of
1,841,6581. ISs. Bd. for the land forces of Great Britain.
Mr. Hl ME said, that when the Report was brougitt
up, it was his intention to enter at large, into an els-
mtration of the recruiting establishments for England
and Ireland, to show that it was not necessary to main-
tain the Albany and Chatham barracks at their present
extent.
Lord PALMERSTON, adverting to the observation
of the lion. Gentleman a few minutes ago, said that he
was sure he could show that the cavalry was not main-
tained in any disproportion to the necessities of the ser-
vice; that it was a service, which, from its nature, it
was impossible to increase, except with great labour, and
after a lon4 interval. The Albany barracks was a place
for the reception of recruits,and contained on the average
every month, 1673 individuals. Chatham was for in
valias, and cunt-Wed on the average nary month 625
individuals.
Mr. HUME would show that these establishments
were toe extensive on anothrr occasion. He then ad-
verted to the riding establishment, and stated that he con-
sidered it a u.'eleas expense to the country.
Mr. O'GRADY submitted that the riding establish-
ment was totally unnecessary. He never heard a cavalry
officer express an opinion favourable to it. He did not
see a shadow of advantage in upholding it.
Mr. BERN AL wished to hear front the Noble Se-
cretary an assurance as to o hen this exwnse should

cease.
Lord PALMERSTON insisted that on the principle
of uuiformit, and upon a variety of other grounds, the
riding establishment was one of the branches of ser-
vice the most necessary. He was, not able to say at
what time it would be proper to reduce it altogether,
and could only add that he Nould pledge himself to sanc-
tion its continuance only so Ion; as it was found to be
necessary.
After a few :nerds from Mr. O'GRADY the Resolotion
was agreed to.
The sum of 719.710/. 12s. Si. was then voted for tbe
land forces of ',eland._
Lord PALMERSTON then moved the grint of 93,5031.
2.. Id. for the General Staff of Great Britain, exclusive of
India, which, after a few words from Mr. Bums, was
agreed to.
The Noble Lord moved the grant of 18,7,651. 1;s. 3d.
for the Staff of Ireland, which was sorer(' to. With res-
pect to the Medical Board, it would he at present inc.n-
veident to make any change in it.
The resolution was rhea ao•ced to. •
A sum of 111,33;1. Is. 3t. was then voted to defray
the expenses end allowances of the Officers and
Clerks to the several public departments in. Great
Britain.
On the qttestion that 9,10;1. 16 be granted for si-
milar purposes in Ireland.
Mr. HUME objected to the grant, awd said he had
hoped some reduction would have been made, and that
the mode of conducting the military and %Awll departments
in that country would he simplified.
Mr. 6011LBI "RN said it %%as yet impossible to make
tbe intended reductions. The present sum was to be ta-
ken on account, it not being yet known what precise SII-11
would be required.
• Mr. HUME said that he understood the business of the
military.department in Ireland could he done, as in Eng-
land, without the aid of the Chief Secretary for that
country, and on the 29th of next month, he would make
a motion to that effect.
The grant was then agreed to.
The coin of 13,1301. was voted to defray the charges
of medicine and sureery fur the army in England, and a
sum of 4,8351. for similar purposes in Ireland.
On the motion for granting 134 0001. to defray the
charges for the volunteer corps in Great Britain,
Mr. HUME said he was of opinion that much of that
expense could be spared. The Yeon.anre would serve
for honour, and did not reqnire money. They also en-
joyed everol immunities, among which was an exemp.
tion from certain taxes.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Yeomanry were a
useful body, and cost the State very little. The allow-
ance granted them was little more than 31. pee man per
year.
Sir T. LETRIIRIDOE bore testimony to the concise
of the Yeem tory corps, which was a most valuable body,
and the least expenditure.
itlr. F. PAI.NIER was of opinion that no money cemLl
he worse laid out than that given to the Yeomanry. He
saw them sometimes use horses which were not lit fur a
charge if occasion required it.
Mr. BEN Err said the Yeomanry were a most useful
corps. They still belonged to the body of the people,
seldom interfered in political riots, and were very
effectual in suppressing civil riots.
Mr. FREEMANTLE defended the Yeomanry corps,
particularly those of Beckioghanishite, whom he had
the honour of commanding.
Mr. F. PA LM ER and stir. BENNET explained.
After a few words from Mr. WIRY, Mr. Ideate, and
Sir .1. SIik:LLET, the vote was agreed to.
On the resolution for granting 19,3841. 4s. 2J. to
defray the cbarrs of the Yeomanry corps in Irekand,
Mr. 11U3IE said, that when the Report of the Com-
mittee should be bronuht up, he would object to that
Resolution, and would negative it if possible. That
corps in Ireland was :s most dangerous body, and was
coutradistinguiehed from the Yvon' inry corps of Eng-
land. He hoped the Report would not be received in his
absence, as was the csee lately with the second reading
of the Irish Yeomanry Corps Bill.
Mr. GOULBURN said that be did not intend to have
taken advantage of thelion. member's absence yesterday,
but wbeu the ordinary business of th house was gone
through, and lie was going to make his motion on the
commutation of tithes in Ireland, there being only few
Irish Members then in the house, he did, at their request,
and in order to give time for the arrival of more- Irish

Member., more in the mean time the second reading of
the Yeomanry Corps Bill. Whenerer the Honottrab'o
Member brought the csse of the Yeomanry Corps
before the Horne.Goulburn) wonld show that
that holy was distinguished for its loyal y and gaod
c /Mitre.
Colonel TRENCH defended the Yeomanry Corps of
Ireland, and said that in the North, being a Protestant
country, they consisted of Protestants, but in the South
the Cathodes funned a large portion of the Yeomanry

CO 1.
Ihe Resolution was then agreed to, as was also a Re-
solution to grant 19,5761.165. 10d. to defray the ch ages
for eleven companies of Infantry to protect the .erritortes
of the East India Company.
On the Resolution for granting 11,5891. 161. Id. to de-
fray the charge of the Royal Military College.
Mr. HUNII?. wished to know bow many of the 290
students in that College for the last year were qualified
for employment, and how many did actually get commis-
sions. He could discover no use in going to the expense
of educating those young men unless they gut employ-
ment.
Lord PALMERSTON said, that the number who
were employed was 43, of whom 25 got commissions by
purchase, and 18 withont purchase.
Sir 11. lIA RDI NUE defended the institution.
Mr. HU3lk..saiti, he bad not got an moaner to his
whole question. He was desirous to know how many
had completed their education at the College, and left it
without being provided with commissions.
Lord PALMERSTON was not t ten prepared to say
how many had left the College; hut he believed all who
completed their education then got commissions. The
objection to the College formerly was, that no one could
go Into the army without having gone through the Col-
lege. The objection at present was, that titose who went
through the College were not at all taken into the army.
Mr. HUME said, h.:. objected chiefly to the Staff Of-
ficers of the College. He did not see the necessity for so
misty Governors for so few young men. He wished the
example of the Military College of America should be
followed, which cost much less.
Lord PALMERSTON said, the Military College in
America had 272 students. Tile English College had
290, and that number was not disproportioned to our
army, compared with the American army.
Mr. HUME said, that the College was the only place
for education in America, whereas many places for that
purpose were in England.
The vote was then agreed to.
Mr. HUME gave notice that in the bringing up of the
Report he would move for a reduction of half the officers
of that establishment.
The sum of 182,8201. Iffs. Id. was voted to defray the
charges of general officers having military command, and
not otherwise provided for.
On the Resolution for granting 29,1501. 4s. ltl. to de-
fray the charges of garrisons at home and abroad.
Mr. HUME objected to the expenses attending the
Governors of Jersey, Guernsey, Fort Augustus and
Fort George, &c. On the bringing up of the Report be
would make a motion fur the reduction of some of those
Governors.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
126.7501. was voted for the half-pay of land forces in
England anal Ireland.
69,6481. for the military allowances to reduced Officers
of land forces.
32,4961. to defray the charges of Pensions of Chelsea
Hospital.
The following sums weee afterwards voted:-
14 0001. for Kilmaiultam Hospital.
1,224,0001. for the out-pensioners of Chelsea Hospital.
114,0001. for half-pay, to the officers of foreign
corps. •
136,0001. for full pay to retired officers.
-26,0751. fur the Royal Military Asylum.
127,7981. for widows' pensions.
179,7981. for wounded officers on the compassionate
list, and receiving full pay.
3i,7331. for superannuation allowances to persons fil-
ling offices of a civil nature.
6,8541. for persons of a similar description in Ire-
land.
33,0001. for Fees to the Exchequer for passing Army
acrounta.
81,8591. for the veteran battalions in Ireland.
The Report of the Committee was ordered to be receiv-
ed on Monday next.
The Iris,' Arms Bill went through a Committee—To
be reported on Monday.
The Committee of Ways and Means was put off to
Monday.
Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE brought in a Bill for
more effectually ascertaining the subdivisions of coun-
ties, in order to promote the convenience of Magis-
trates at Quarter Sessions.
Mr. HUME gave no:ice that on Tuesday the 30th
day of April he should make a motion respvting the
inOriVy of renaming the Lord Lieutenant, the Secre-
tary, and the various other departments from Ireland.
At half-past nine the house adjourned to Monday.

LIST OF THE MINORITY
Of 62. who supported Mr. Huine's Resolution. "That it Is
expedient to inquire whether the present Church Este- !
blishment of Ireland be not more than commensurate to
the services to be performed, both as regards the number
of persons employed, and the incomes they receive; and,
if so, whether a reduction of the same should nut take
place, with due regard to ail existing interests."
S. M. Barrett, W. W. Becer, Hon. 11. G. Bennet, R.
Benyon, J. Birch, J. H. Calcraft, Hon. G. Campbell, C. S.
Carew, Hon. H. Caulfield. Viscount Clifton. N. W. R. Col-
borne, T. Creevey, Cot Cradock, T. Davies, Sir S. W. De
Crespigny, T. Denman, Vie. Ebrington, G. J. W. A. Ellis,
A. Farquharson, Sir R. Fergussen, Lord W. C. Fitzgerald,
M. Fitzgerald, Vie. Glenorchy, J. Grattan, J. W. Griffith,
Lord A. I lawitton, J. C. Hothouse, lion. C.ll. Hutchinson,
W. P. Hollywood, W. James, J. G. Lambton, R. Leyeester,
J. Macdonald, S. Majoribanks. J. Niartin, Sir W. Maxwell,
Vis. Normanby, C. Palmer, C. F. Palmer, G. Philips, men.
(4. H. Philips, . jun. R. Power, R. Price. P. Pryer, J. C.
Ramsdell, D. Ricardo, A. W. Robarts, G.J. Roberts, Sir G.
Robinson. Earl of Sefton. J. Smith, G. Smin, W. Smith.
W. Stewart, M. A. Taylor, Mar. Titchfield, E. Webb. L.
White, White, Sir R. Wilson, M. Wood, M. Wyvill.—
Tellers—J. Hume, J. B. Monck.
A LIST OF THE MINORITY
Of 39 who voted with Mr. Hume on Monday, the 3d inst.,
" That in the opinion of the Committee it is in-
expedient. in the present circumstances of the country.
to maintain the whole of the real Sinking Fund of
£3,000,000; and that it will afford an immediate relief I
to the country, to repeal taxes to the amount of
L'2.(:00,004 thereof."
J. H. Allen, R. Bernard, 11. Bright, J. Calcraft. %V.
Chamberlayne, 'C. Creevey, Col. Cradock, T. H. Davies,
Sir %V. De Crespigny,. T. Denman, W. Dickinson, E. El-
lice, Vis. Glenorc'iy. J. Grattan. J. W. Griffith, Lord A.
Hamilton. J. C. lioblinuse. J. Hume, W. James, lion. G.
Lamb. T. R. Leonard, R. Leycester, S. Lushington. J.
Maxwell, J. R. Monet:. P. Nloore, S. O'Grady, J. C. Pel-
ham. G. H. Philips, W. S. Poyntz, R. Pike. P. Prvae,
D. Ricardo, A. W. Roberts, Sir G. Robinson. R. W. Tal-
bot, Right lion. G.Tierney, Col. White, 31. Wood, Tel-
' ler, Hon. 11. G. Bennet.
MAJORITY.—of 110.
Sir T. D. Ackland. J. D. Alexander, J. Alexandee, Lord
Apsley. Right Hen. C. Arbuthnot. Right lion. W. Bag-
well. Coi. J. B:dine. H. Bankes. W. J. Bankes. Hon. S.
, T. Bathurst, Lord Binning, Earl Brecknock. J. Browne.
J. Buchanan, J. F. Buxton, A. B wing, W. W. Becher,
' J. Calvert. A. Campbell, Right Hon. G. Cannintr, E. M.
I Chem*. G. 11. Cherry, Sir G. Clerk, Sir G. Cockburn, R.
R. Cooper, P. Corbett, T. P. Courtenay, W. Courteoav,
' D. Davenport, J. Daly, J. Dawkins, Sir C. Doraville, J.
, E. Dowdeswell, C. R. Ellis, W. Evans, J. Faoe, C. Forbes,
jW. H. Freemantli, Sir R. Gifford, D.-G. Gilbert, J, Glad.