The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-04-29 00:00:00

THE STATESMA7*;.

months ago since the state of the trad.2 is that part of 34.111101'611AM ;novel fur a Itethrn of all Funds
the cou•a:ry was rt•pttaentcd in its extremrst depress at the •li'po'al of the I run n, and not usually deemed
slot% in thin House, ■nd then• were theta taught to ex. to be und.•r Cie ►outioul of the Honse, for the two
pert Alle% of tl.at distress, simply irons the r.•ars Its I and 1.20. He sai.l, that the paper al-
progr. ss of tithe Alone. 117 hen, therefore, much time res4lh on the table did not inchwe these two years.
had passed away, 3nl without producing the reset► 31r. 111;31E thought this motion connected with
then contemplated ; when they were still told to look one which he hail made, an•l he could state to the
to time, and to time only, fur the same effect, he telt House that the ►none►• reeehe.l from Gibraltar tone,
it his day to suggest wine remedy, which would during the 1.. t.• reign', amounted to 1:.!1,11011/. Ile its-
Tartl;', at least, remove the evil. lit the Se..sion tritfle.l r,. -ttloinit a ►notion, to Ascertain the sums le%ied
hef.•rc last 1141,01)0/. Wass voted bt• the House (.1- the nit the in!lahitants of liihraltar.
purpose of enabling emigrants to settle at the ear of Mr. ItItIWIIIIAM said, flirt his motion was only
1,0,.d !lupe. His Majesty's 31inisters (-mall not but for the .. nut of the. Nods in question. He should
remember that a slwilar object had been volitymplati afterwards move fur an account of their ■pl:licatiun.—
b► the people who were suffering under the pressure of The tasui.•tn was agreed to, sad
distress in Scotland, and which was *lgo know to the dlr. 111i0 U 611.131 then Iliovral for an account show-
Member connected with Perth. It was also known to ing the apnlication of th• se funds.
that lion. Member, that this was a question which A conversation here took pyre between Mr. Iluot•o.
coild not be deferred much longer. There were, in ItAM, the (.!IV4rELLIOR of the E sctintera, and Mr.
uh, a large portion of the population in that part of Nest►. The latter 31ember steed, that in the tenth

. . .
the country who looked up.ni existence as a burthen
whicli they cold.' hardly bear. They could not sup-
port themselves nor their families, situ according to
the represertations made to him (Lord A. Hamilton),
they were in the last stage of distress. lle hail urged
his 3lajesty's Ministers, many mouths ago, not to over-
look the opportunity which they hrd of conferring a
signal benefit on a large portion of the population of
Scotland, and to adopt the system of emigration as the
most effectual, as a ell as the cheapest mode of prevent-
ing a recurrence of the evil. He was afraid, however,
that as it was then, it still continued to be the spirit

section of the 39th and 19th of his late 51ajesty, it was
provided the if his llajesty left nu trill, the private
property w!iich he might lease should be rendered
available to the public funds. Ile wished therefore to
know if any private property WWI left, and if so,
whether his :Majesty had left any by which it was
disposed
The tIiANCEI.I.IIII of the EXCII EQ14:11 replied,
that he h l l DO official knots ledge cf any will of his
late Majesty, but he believed he dial leave a will, in
which he iisposed of the principal part of his private
property.

act temper of his Majesty's Ministers to underrate the
numb rs who were distressed, ;.iid the extent to n hi.
they suffered. fie was afraid, that they imputed a
Lager portion of the disturbances which had taken
place to the spirit of disaffection than to the pressure
of distress; that by 4pplying a remedy to the former
they would never alleviate the latter ; and that
such a course would only smother disaffection for a
while, hut would nut eradicate the causes that engen-
dered 4.-01,4, hear hoped he should nut be

After a further explanation of the grounds of his
motion, by Mr. 1/11011:11A M. it I.lali agreed to.
Mr. TIERNEY said, he übsened in the accounts
relative to the l'i►il List an excess of 355,1100!.,
created diming the late reig n. above the 1;0,0011/. a
year which was allowed for the I rivy purse, and
which was at his Majesty's uncontrolled disposal. Ile
therefore wished to I►ave frosts the Right Hon. llentle-
-111211 opposite (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) some
satisfactory explanation on the subje••t.

- _
r•ipposed as delivering this opinion for and• other pur-

The CIiANI:EI.I.OIt of the OCCIIEQUER raid,

p ise than that of assisting those persons who were in
distress, and of sluing what he conceived to be his
duty. What he wished particularly to ask the Right
Hon. Gentlerture was, whether he was prepared to in-
farm the (louse how far his Majesty's Ministers, in
I caking at the state of the country, were disposed to
call to their aid the remedy which they hail already
partially applied? And he could not help expre►sing
Lis ai prehension, that any delay in applying the saute
remedy to the distresses in Scotland, would be (Baas-
Lous in the last degree.—Olear, hear
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that he bad nu wish to throw any obstacle in the way
Of the object which the Noble Lord deemed so de-
sirable; nor would he anticipate what measures his
Majesty's Ministers might adopt, in considering the
means of giving relief to the distress alluded to. That
every disposition favourable to that object was frit,
he bored was manifest; and, indeed, lie could inform
the House, that in executing the plan of emigra-
tion to the Cape of Hood Hope, an expense had al-
ready been incurred, w hich exceeded the suns voted
by the House, live thousand persons had been ma-
barked for that destination, and be had intelligence
that they had already performed a good part of their
voyage in health, and with every prospect of a fat our-
able termination. With regard to the wishes which
had been referred to, s h .viiig been entertained by a
ionslderable pert' of th population of Scotland, he
was afraid that the Nub', Lord did not sufficiently
appreciate the information which had been received
relative to the emigrations to America. That iutelli-
genre had been known to every person, as it was en-
titely of a pubic mature, and it was from thence col-
lected that the unhappy persons who had emigrated
to the United States, so far from having found em-
ployment, were soon after their arrival reduced to a
lamentable state of distress, and that the manufacturing
part of that country was suffering under the severest
misery. Under such circumstances, to transpo:t emi-
grants to Anwrira would have been only to remove
the scene of their privations, and to consign them to
'learnt-Hon on a foreign shore.—(Hear, hear!)—To
those who hail gone to the British settlements of
North America, grants of hook and every assistant.,
sire given, hut those provinces hail been so overloaded
with emigrants, that strong remonstrances against
further emigration thither, and especially to Canada,
had been made to the Ilovernment at home, in which
it wits stated that the number and wants of the cull-
&Intl had caused serious infonvenienee to the re-
s nieces both of the Uovernment and of individuals,
and that to transmit more emigrants thither would be
etinally disastrous to themselves and to the provinces.
In inch a state of things it would have he••n premature
and' unwise fur the tiovernment to hold out any ge-
neral plan of indiscriminate emigration. They wished
t•a afford every relief in their power, but they were
disikseliaed to adopt any wives hastily.—(Hear, hear
As to further emigration to the Cape, lie thought, at
least before a fresh colony went out, it would be wise
to wait and see what the first colsiny had dour.—(Hear!)
They had, it was trite, every hope of success, but until
that hope was actually realized, it would he neither
wise nor humane to do any thing hastily with a view
to further emigration.—(llear, hear !)--Ile hoped that
the N..ble Lord ■nd the House would do his Majesty's

it was certainly true that sums hail been paid into the
/ privy purse f time to time. These sums came
from the Colonial foods, and did not exceed 1;0011/. a
year during the late long reign, which might be con-
sidered a %ray moderate surplus above the 60,000/. a
year that was allowed.
Mr. TIERNEY ceneeneled, that all money vested in
the Crown. was so vested in ri :lit of the l flown, and
foul.' nut be optionally transferred. Rut the pricy
parse was quite different, as the King bail the free
disposal of it ; yet it appeared that the Ministers in
the instance. alluded to, had applied the Ifroits of the.
Crown to the purposes of the individual, and he de-
sired to know upon what principle such a measure/
could be justi:leil ?
'1 he CIIAM ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
it was upon the principle of immemorial usage.
Mr. TIERNEY insisted that this was no justifica-
tion whatever.
Mr. 1I1'311.: was at a loss to know from what co-
lonics the sums in question came, and wished the
Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Excheeiner would
state them specifically. He had heard that from sto
9000/. had some from Demerara, and been applied to
the privy purse, and he desired that a list of all such
SLUM should be laid before the House.
Mr. TIERNEY said, it was quite certain that a sum
amounting to 305,0010. had been paid into the privy
purse, of which the Right Hon. Gentleman could give
nu satisfactory account.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQI'RR ob-
served, that doubts hail in some rases arisen whether
the whole of that sum lead been paid into the privy
i purse or not. There was, however, nu other account
of its appropriation.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, if his Majesty's Ministers
persisted in their intention of not introducing a Le-
gislative measure to vest this fund in Parliament,
where it ought to be (allowing the Crown, at the same
time, a suitable compensation), he should himself feel
it his duty to bring forward a distinct proposition on
the subject. '1 his he should do on Thursday next, it
being understood, however, that the report relative to
the Civil list should have first been brought up.
Mr. ; HURS moved, that thee.' be laid be-
fore the House an account of all Private Rills in p/o-
-gress through the House up to the 20th of February
last. distinguishing such of them as had not received
the Royal assent.—Ordered.
Mr. OR ENFELL moved for certain weekly returns
of Bank Notes and Hank Post Bills up to the 2lst of
December, 1019.—i/tiered.
Mr. Mit/UDEN gave notice of his intention to
move, on Wednesday next (as we understood) fur a
Committee tee inquire into the expiring laws.
Sir JOHN NEWPORI' moved fur leave to bring in
a Bill to regulate the office of Clerk of the Peace in
Ireland.—Agreed to.—Adjourned.

THE PROGRESS OP PUHI,IC 0R1.Y.14.1
ON PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.

14.. VIII.
(ALDERMAN 111AWRRIDGE11 MCNEAL MOTIONS /OR
lIMORTININU THE DDRATIOA Or PARLIAMENTS.)

The unequal representation of the people, the corrupt
state of Parliament, and the perversion thereof (rum
its original institution had, under the deepimpressions
made by the disasters of the American war, been deem-
ed by th- citizens of bondua, according to their public
vote, to have been the principal cusses of the unjust
war with America, of the consequent dismemberment
of the British empire, and of every grievance of which
the nation complained. Having asserted their opinion
that these grievances could never be removed until
the right olds.. people to their constitutional share in
the English government should be re-established by a
fair and equal representation in Parliament, and a
frequent election of their Kepreeentatires, according to
ancient usage, the citizens bad appointed a ►ery as-
'serous and respectable committee to correspond and'
co-operate with other public bodies, in taking the
most eactual method. for obtaining these desirable
' ends. Among other zealous advocates of these senti-i
menu in the Corporation of London, was Mr. Alder-
, man Sawbridge ; and in the character of Representa-
tive of the city, be wan equally distinguished for in-
troducing sail supporting them in the House of COOP
laosui, as in the meetings of his constituents at Guild-

Ministeis the justice to believe that they would nol with-
hold any means of assktance which they could give,
bat it was incumbent upon them to proceed a ith caution.
Mr. PINLAY agreed generally iu the statement
which bad been made by his Noble Friend. The

people of Scotland were prevented from availing them-
,..lves of the opportunity which had been held out of I
emigration to the Cape of Cood Hope, because the
rules upon which that experiment had been formed
required the payment of a certain sum of mouey. He
hoped, therefore, that if that experiment should be re-
peated, no rules of this kind would accompany it.
He believed that the grantor a stun of money would go
a great way towards relieving the distress in Scotland.
The Report was then read a first and second time,
and agreed to. It was ordered to be presented by the
whole House, and that such Members as we►e Privy
Councillors should take his Majesty's pleasure when
lisarould be pleased to receive the Address.
'The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the House of Commons do take his Majesty's
Speech into consideration to-ssiorrow.—Agreed to.

Lail. Ins escrtiors in this important pork. entitle
itoleed, to inure especial notice and respect, trum
his having been the earliest, the most uniform, and
th• tp v ing of any Parliamentary characer
in the eau3r of ParliamentAry Reform.
At a pe.iiol when the iniportauce of the object was
but little understood, and the views even of the friends
of liberty concerning it were neither comprehensive.
nor clear, our consistent, nor operative, Mr. Saw-
bridge had commenced that discussion which has since
become so generally interesting, hut in which few
pers..os were at that time prepared to Pei concern, or
disposed to take a part. Before any of those move-
men s were made which originated in the rublic re-
monstranees produced by the disasters of the American
war, he introduced a motion jute the Vonse of Cum-
mons, which for a long time lie annually repeated,
for shortening the duration of Parliaments. Con-
tracted anti impelled as such a measure might now
be esteemed for accomplishing the purposes of Politi-
cal Reformation, the fre9uent agitation of it, anti of
the points to it hich it was related, were effective
means of attracting a more close and general attention
to its ultimate übj•cts, and of regulating, as well as
accelerating, the progress of public opinion respecting
Parliamentary Reform.

In such a sketch as this it is unnecessary to recapi-
tulate the several debates to which the annual motion
of Mr. Sawbridge gave rise in the House of Commons.
Connecte.l, howetrr, as it became, from the coinci-
dence of time anal cireunistaeces, with the plans of
Mr. Pitt, it may be expedient, in this review, to no-
tice the manlier in which it was supported and re-
vived, on some one of the occasions on which it was
brought forward. Ihe discussion which may be the
most appropriatrof any fur this purpose, that which
took place a few days alter the debate on Mr. Pitt's
first plan of Reform in the representation of the people.
On the 16th of May, 17t43, Mr. Alderman Saw-
bridge brought again before the House the subject
which lie had so often previously been presenting to
the public mind. tin former occasions lie had traced
the progress of Parliaments through the early history
of the kingdom till the enaetment of the Septennial
Hill; and from the facts he then advanced had argued,
that by the Constitution, Parliaments ought to be
called annually. 'I he Triennial Hill, which had been
introduced after the Revolution in the reign of William
111., he treated as an encroachment on the rights and
liberties of the people, and the Septennial Act, as an
innovation most unjust; for the representative body
had by those means arrogantly assumed to themselves
a power which was constitutionally vested in the hands
of the people. He hall contended, that the more fre-
quently the power of election 'everted to the people,
the better would it be for the general interests of the
nation ; for if Members were aware that their consti-
tuents would have a full opportunity of judging of
their services, and pronouncing on their conduct, an-
nually, those services and that conduct would he more
guarded—the influence of corruption would be check-
ed, and the Representatives of the people more disin-
terested and upright. From these views lie had been
led, formerly, to wish to return to the first principles
of Parliament, and to pass a law for Parliaments to be
chase's annually ; but having gathered, as he said, on
this occasion, experience from past defeats, he was
resolved that his motion then should be as little liable
to objections as possible ; and if, after all, his motion
should miscarry, at that time, as it had in former
years, he declared that he was determined to persevere
in making it annually, as long as lie had a seat in
the !louse, or until the measure should be adopted in
Parliament.

Alluding to some hyperbolical fires:ions which
had been used during the discussion of Mr. Pitt's plan
of Reform, in praise of the British Constitution, Mr.
Sawbridge observed, that the British Constitution,
till he death of Charles I. was a system of the severest
despotism. Antecedent to that reign, the Horernmeat
was at one time a monarchial and at another an aristo-
cratical tyranny, to which the people bad been uni-
formly induced to yield in the most blind and abject
manner. In ancient times indeed, there had existed
violent feuds and contests ; but they were merely
contests for power between the King and the Barons,
in which the people had no interest. It was notorious,
he asserted, that the people never roused themselves,
nor in aired after their rights, and much lees showed
a spirit to assert them, till the reign of the tyrant
Charles the First. It was therefore, in later time*
only, that the dame of public liberty had il!uniined
our Constitution; and it was indisputable, that it had
beret brighter and brighter by degrees, fee: as
Me people begeta to learn time awl uiu.e what their
rights were.—For these reasons he was led to
desire that the public mind might be kept awake, by
making more frequent appeals to its judgment re-
specting public men and public measures; bat in order
to afford room for as little objection as possible to the
mode in which his wishes on that import •nt point
might be accomplished, he meant, he said, to make
his motion as general as he could. Ile should propose
no specific form. He should move for neither annual
nor triennial parliaments, but merely o for leave to
bring in a Bill to shorten the duration of Parliaments;"
though if that Bill were suffered to be brought in,
he had no doubt, he added, lie should he able to
suggest such a mode of shortening the duration of
Parliaments as should meet with general approbation.
'f he opponents of Reform, relying on their numeri-
cal force, were disinclined on this occasion to display
any imposing show of argument. One Member only
spoke against the motion; while, on a division, there
appeared in opposition to it 121, and in favour of it
only 56.—1 n nearly this proportion the numbers were
opposed to cacti other at the several times the motion
was made. Its supporters, notwithstanding the im-
portance of their objects, and the popularity of their
spirit, could ariptire no additional strength or emote-
Iragement by their efforts. Atter the early trials, the
interest it excited in the House was evidently dinsi-1
ntshed and decreasing ; and on some of the last ocea-
sions it even failed in producing a debate. In the year
1789, before the riots in London, when the House di-
vided on the motion, the number fur it was 99, and
against it 182 ; in the year 1781, after the fear of
popular insurrection could be employed as a political
usantruvre, the camber in favour of it was eoly !9,
anti in opposition to it 39.
In the year 1780, it is also to he observed, as a
circuutstauce which might have had nu small effect,

. t •
I

that 31r. Burke had, in a mast elaborate
argued against Mr. Sawbridge's motion, with a vies
to show that, if it were carried, it would pr- ipitay
-
one of these two consequenees —either that the( roes,
by its constant seated power. intlitenre, and remeune,
would wear out all oppommition in elections ; or that •
violent and furious po,.n!ar spir;t woithl arise. •1'..e
Pill. be asserted, had no sort of tewleury to in. mise
the Integrity, or public is .iri! of the electors, no• '
limit the gain of intln •n •e in the eroira, o:
counteract its 0 eration ; nor to abate the inter,;
inclination of 31 hissers to app:y that induenee to t:..1
electors. Congealed as a Ifonme of Consume:is i ,
at present, he demstistrated that, if fregn•nt
took place, ministers would 1,.• the Inure in !aced, 4,
they sought to have a majority iu Parliament, to
crease the nn•ans of their indw•n:e, and sharpen the.:
dexterity in i:s application. l'an litlates, on tlw °dm.:
bend, who shawl to.tia on the erouni of their persoual
preentions, and their private furtun.•s, would b.! cu,.
sequently home down. " Imi almomt .411 the elections,
said he, " w•ith which I have heels a.•quaint.,l it i,
ten thuu4and times moo e mry :Or a Cantliduc
show himself a Man of power, than a man of integritm
Elections, therefore, bec one a water of hea►j r..
prose; and if contests are frequent, to many thee will
become a matter of an expense totally ruinous whicim
no fortunes can bear; but least of all th.- landed tom-
tame, subject as limey mostly are, to a variety of en-
cunabraners. 'I he chargs, therefore, of elett:ons amen
never to b.! lust sight 4.f, in a miu stiou roneeroing then
frequency ; becau,e the grand Object you seek is lode-
pendence. In lependence of mini will ever hc rumor
less influenced by independence of fortune; and it
every three years the exhausting shah es of entertain•
meat, to say nothing of bribery, are to be periedi•
cally renewed, I see that private fortunes will he
washed away, and every trace of in.lepenience bum
down by the current. The expense of time last elec-
tion has been computed (and l am persuaded that it
has not been over-rated) at 1,3011,1100 C

Mr. litirLe alletiKed, that constituted as the tepee-
sentatire body is, and as the elections were them actu-
ally conducted, the shortness of a triennial sitting
would have the fullusring ill effects:—lt would make
the Member 1110 re shamelessly and shorkinirly eurrapt;
it would increase his dei:ett.'enre on those who cuiea
best support him at his election ; it woeld wrack and
tear to pieces the fortunes of tho•e who stood spas
their private interest ; it would wake the attn.('
more renal, and destroy the sobriety, the integrity.
the simplicity of all the runic, and undermine tits
deepest and best laid foundations of Cie emulous-
wealth.

For these reasons Mr. Burke regretted the opposi-
tion he was compelled to give to Mr. Sawbridge's mo-
tion. The terms in which he e ortd his speech art:,
on account of the teniFer he she, wards et Meet' towards
the friends of Reform, too courteous to he altogether
unnoticed. —" The Ilun. Gentleman sees," said he,
" that I respect the pri.ieiple u:ma which he goes, as
well as his intentions and abilities. He will believe
that I do nut front hiie wantonly, and on trivial
grounds. I hope he sees and feels, and that every
Member sees and feels along COI him, the ilitfeteace
between amicable dissent and civil discord."