The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-02-07 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

nosed, had been sitting live years, and he would ven-
ture to say, that not one human being, in the House
or out of the House, was one tittle the wiser for all
they had discovered or communicated. The ac-
counts furnished by them were even more compli-
cated and obscure than the other papers on the same
subject occasionally laid before the House; and he
challenged every individual, except the Right Hon.
Gentleman himself, to say that he had been in. the
least enlightened by them. It was his intention to
propose 'oat the House, instead of appointing a 5e...,
sect Committee, should go into a Committee of the
*hole llouse, to consider the State of the East
India Company. The public would then see
what was done, and could form their opinions ac-
cordingly. There were quite sufficient documents
to enable such a Committee to enter into a due
consideration of the subject. He would then have
it in his power to tnov:! certain Resolutions, which
it would be no easy task to oppose.—lie might then
' move, that one of the conditions of the present
cheetee was the payment to the public in compel'.
dation for being excluded from theirade, of the sum
ui per annum, which, in the nineteen
years that bad since passed, had been only once paid,
whiles earn of 1000,0001. had been advanced to the
Company. That their debt had increased to the
enormous amount of 30,000,0001. That their bond
debt, instead of being reduced, now amounted to
7.000,0001. That the accumulation of a sum of
12,0100,0001. as a security for their capital, had en-
tirely failed. [War, hear!] If the House looked
late the history of the Company, at the time of the
led Perliamentary Charter, they. would find that
the Company then was in the practice of making
goo] its payments; and that they also advanced a
sum of '2,000?0001. during the reign of William, as
a c nisideratiou for their exclusive prisileges. In the
rein of Anne, they advanced another sum of
12,000.0001. Ever since 1765, when they became
o)t mewl' merchants, but sovereigns of India,
VI: new policy adopted by the Legislature was)
t :at the country should participate still more largely
i the Company's profits. No such participation, ••
however, had taken place. A Report was drawn
up, in 1752, with great labour, by Mr. Burke, but
never taloo into the consideration of the House,
owing to peculiar accidents, in, which it N% as distinctly
stated, that the Company were no longer merchants,
but were the great landholders of India. That their
fleets, indeed, continued to exist, but existed only
for the purpose of carrying out stores, and bringing
home the trinute or rent in the manufactured goods
of lndia. Haling, however (said Mr. Creevey),
no tribute to bring home, they are obliged to bor-
row from their servants, in order to make good
the it investments. A paper was to be laid in a
fee da t s upon the table, by which it would appear '
that the amount of the property-tax for the year '
IA I I ea; 1,100,0001. less than in the preceding year.
This ii.s, could not have been sustained either on the !
land or the stock of the country, but on the trade
mervlr, and the result was, that if the tenth of the
trade had suffered a loss to this amount, the whole I
must hate suffered no lees than 11,000,0001. He
led,' a paper in his hand, shewing that • the distress
at Liverpool was at present extreme, and. entered
into some details, shewing that the number of per-
sons who had lately received. relief in !bet tbvets,
sad increased in one month from 8000 to 15,000 s
tit. he recollected that at every period when the
merchants of this couittry have enjoyed a free trade
to the East Indies, commerce had always been be-
ueticial, and joined, to this recollection, the present
state of trade and manufactures, he saw new and press-
ing reasons to induce the House to take this subject
into its earnest consideration. It was time that the
British merchants were put on a footing, aeltast
with neutrals, and it was well known that while the
Company was plunged in embarrassments, the Ame-
ricans were carrying on a prosperous trade. lie must
protest, however, against alt idea of transferring the
revenues of the Company to the Crown, the influ-
ence of which was already so enormous.. Upon the
grounds he had detailed, as well as upon that of the
interests of the stockholders themselves, who had no
guarantee or security at present whatever, the origi-
nal stork of the Company being all gone and spent,
lie conceived that the House ought to lose no time in
forming a Committee of the whole House, instead of
the close Committee proposed by the Right Honour-
able Gentleman.

General GASCOIG NE, though he would not op-
pose the Motion, yet protested against committing,
the interests of the seaport towns, which were pre-
paring Petitions against the continuance of the Com-
pa:;y's monopoly, by any previous agreement be-
tween and the Company.—[Hear,
heur !I •
11 YIII.A NT said, that the Committee on Indian
Affairs had really brought forward a great deal of
information, though it possibly might have brought
forward still more. Besides the arcounttetween the
East India Company and Goveroweue, they had pro-
duced two very elaborate Reports, one on the Or.
dinary Revenue and Ewpenditure of the East India
Conapaoy, and another on the Extraordinary,,Reve-
vue gnu Expenditure of the Company • and he would
take upon him to say, that any Gentleman who
might choose to look into those Reports, could not
fail to get much information with respect to the pro-
p_rioty of a renewal of the Company'y Charter.—
Witb respect to the Ninth Report, which had been
alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman opposite
-(Greeve)) it merely came down to the year 1780,
and though it certainly did contain much useful in.
formation, it was not arplieablo to the present state
of India. The sum of the hundred thousand]
pounds to be paid to Government, was not, as the I
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Creevey) had said, in
consideration of a monopoly of trade. The Ho.
non raide Gentleman was mistaken, if he imagined the
East India Cwn,lany wntAtl resist the extension of
con.mercial inf.ercoorse with India from any princi-
pid of c )mmerrial jt alouiy. On this subject it was not
at prez.a:t, pe.laps, pm?er to speak, as it was only
anticipating the proper time for its discussion ; but
this h+ tumid say, that the expectation entertained
by the COIiMICTZ.II: part of the country, of the great
advat,' 'us likely to be derived by them from laying
the trat:e wit i India open, would in all probaLility
calf in disappointment. It was a fact, that the
Editiean tredersin the different pons of India and
'Chill, and more golcls in titeir warehouses than they
could 14 and they found that European goods

were becoming mbre and more unsaleable. The suc-
cess of the American traders could be•eaaily account-
ed for. It was to be considered that the Americans
were neutrals, whereas this country was engaged In
an extensive war. The consequence was, that the
Americans could get admission into all the ports of
Prince, and carried Indian goods there, which' the
merchants of this country could not do by any possi•
bility. He did not know what the Honourable Gen-
tleman meant, when he stated that the East India
Company were at the•expence of paying the expences
of four Members in that House. (dere Mr. Whit-
bread said the Company paid the Beard.)
General TARLETON said, • that the out-ports
would indeed be very much disappointed if the trade
to India was not thrown open. He hoped that the
merchants of Liverpool would be indulged in their
wishes; and he trusted, from their known skill and
industry, that instead of a losing they would make
it a gaining concern. '1 he distress of Liverpool was
indeed very great : that opulent town was now cow•
pletely shorn of its beams.
The CHANCELLOR of tha EX.CIIEQUER
thought the House would find no difficulty hi throw-
ing open, to a considerable extent, the trade with
Judie, without infringing on the East India Compa-
ny's Charter, or without endangering the security
of the East India possessions. On this subject he
conceived the Honourable Gentleman who had spo-1
ken last but one, had given a very satisfactory an-
swer to the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Creevey). He
rose at present merely to give expression lathe sur-
prise which he felt at the statement made by Oat Ho-
notieabte Gentleman respecting the produce of the
Property Tax at the sth of January last, compared
with the produce of the Property Tax for the year,
ending the sth of January preceding. He believed
those were the periods compared together by the Hon.
Gent.—(Mr. Creevey expressed dissent)—lle appre-
hended, that. instead of the deficiency of 1,100,0001.
of the one year compared with the other, the real!
deficiency would be only 289,0001.—8ut though the
produce of the year, ending in 1811, was less than
this of the year ending in 1810, by the sem of
289,0001. it was at the same time to be remarked,
that it was greater by 700,0001. than that •f the
year preceding the former of these periods
Certainly a deficiency of 289,0001. would not war-
rant the Honourable Gentleman in the desponding
views which he had taken. But it was not kir to
draw such a conclusion at any rate, on a comparison
of two years only, and especially a comparison of '
the present year 'with the most productive year which'
the•country had ever known. It was also to be
considered that the produce was only diminished iui
comparison with this most productive and greatest of ,
all years, and that it was greater for the present year
than for all former years, with the exception of the
year ending the sth of January, 1811. The intweasel
at the sth of January, 1811, was also in a good
measure owieg to those measures which had been
adopted in consequence of the recommendations of
the House to bring in the arrears and to levy the tall
more effectually, all which measures began to take
effect last year, and had the effect of swelling it in
comparison of the present; for the same increase
could not be expected from these measures after they
had been some time in operation. Comparing, the ,
slate receipts of the tax during last year and the
present year together, it would be found that they
amointed to 10,700,0001. for the presilat, and ten ,
millions for the past year; so that if the Pro-
perty Tans of these two years were compared'
together, indyendent of the arrears recovered
in• each year, it would be found that the in-'
crease was rather the excess of arrear recovered
in the one year over that in the other. Instead of a
deficiency then of 1,100,0001. it was only 289,0001.
and comparing the total receipts, there was 700,0001.
more for the present year, than for the third year
back. lie believed this statement was not far from
correct, although he might be mistaken in a small
degree. As to what had been stated respecting Li-
verpool by the lion. Gent. (Mr. Creevey), if he
abeam_ that such was the general state of trade
! throughout the country, he could inform him, that
though the trade of the present year was less than
that of the preceding, it was greater than that of
any other year, and that the preceding year was
greater than any year ever known.
Mr. CILEEVEY said, he had taken his calcula-
tions of the Property Tax up to the 25th October,
and not up to the sth January.
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY thought the statement
of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grant) extremely satis-
factory, and he could not help thinking that the only
proper way of proceeding was to appoint a Commit-
! tee of the whole House.

Mr. BROUGHAM thought the public had a right
to be informed of the real situation of Indian affairs.
It was welt known that a ne.gocUttion was at present
going on between the Government and the East In-
dia
company, and that the matter was as nearly
sattledb Want as it could be whiten* a statute.
All this ulpicarried -on in silence ; and if it was not
as good as concluded, it was in a train to be con-
cluded, and Parliament was only to be brought for-;
ward as a matter of form to, put the seal to the con-
tract. There were so many facts necessary to be
known before it was possible to entertain any correct
opinion on the Fast Indian affairs, that he thought
the production of documents alone would not be
satisfactory, and that witnesses ought also to be
examined. In the present state of the question, it
was impossible for any enlightened man to come to
any conclusion, either satisfactory to himself, or safe
to the country. One man one day will give you an
account which shall be Negatived by the next man
you happen to meet, equally competent to give in.
formation respecting India. He spoke from what
had happened to himself. He would allude to one
subject, for instance, on which he had received the
most contradictory information. Would it be safe,
in the extension of au intercourse with India, to
allow of emigration to that country ? One set of
men say tilt nothing would be so dangerous as this
measure, and that colonization and insurrection,
and finally: separation, are synonimons. Another
set tell pan: that these ideas are chimerical, scout
the idea of danger, anj appeal to the case of the
American settlements. —Those persons who are
averse to colonization tell you, that this would be
thwarting the religious prejudices of the natives.—
AnotheVeyr, look to the Maboosetans in India,
far met ous than the Europeans will be, who

were even abhorred by the wolves. The Mahome-
tans not only proselytised the natives, but they en-
deavoured to extirpate them, and yet no insurrection
I took plate. All these things were set in array against
one another, to that it was impossible to corns
to any satisfactory opinion, without the examination
of *itnesses. One thing he would caution the coun-
try against, and that was, against forming too great
an expectation of the advantages of an extended In-
dian trade, (hear! frons Mr. Perneval] as he was
afraid this expectation would only eud in disappoint-
ment. Ile wished the exportations to South America
to be borne in mind. These exports had prevented
the measures of Government, during the last four
years, from being so clearly felt here as they were
throughout the country. With respect to the Pro-
perty Tax, measures had been taken by Government,
not only to raise arrears, but to raise the amount of
I the taxes. It was well known that there was no part
of the country where the exertions of the inspectors
were not felt.

port into the Reuse. With regard to the recelpt of
the Income Tax, it might be very well to compate
figures with figures, the account of one quarter with
the account of another ;—but, as Statesmen, it wa,
most fit that other matters connected with them
should be taken into view—such as the misery oica-
siened by it, the calamities actually existing, the Eur.
charges after surcharges, without cause, and the ap.
peals after appeals, .without redress; all creating
distresses, the picture of which, however thelan.
choly, could not be exaggerated.
Mr. HUTCHINSON, in a few words; called the
attention of the House to the existing state Gf the
trade of Ireland, and to the advantages it would de-
'rive from opening the trade to the East Indies.
Mr. WALLACE, in reply to the several mart
that had been made, and to the questions prop.
by Mr. Whitbread, said, that if the Committee
revived, he had sanguine hopes that the Report
be in the hands of Members before the discn.,
the propriety of renewing the Charts Ile

! ed that it was the usual practice in cases of this Lt.,.
. yof renewing to, _ ter. _. .
that the Report should be prepared previous to tr::
Mr. LUSHINGTON recommended that the do..
cements upon the table of the House should be re-
appointment of a Committee to give its
(erred to, and that until their contents were known sanction t 4
any discussion upon them should be postponed. I it, and to present it to the House with such amend.
Mr. WHITBREAD felt it necessary to put save-
,meats as were deemed necessary. That such a
ral questions to the Hon. Member over the way, who
document would contain all that was necessary for
had moved for the re-appointment of the East India' the decision of the ultimate question could not he
Committee. In the first place he asked, why, after imagined, nor would such topics, as must be entered
the recommendation contained in the Regent's 1 upon, be fit subjects for the ffeliberation of a Con.
Speech, that this subjed should be taken early into
mittee. With regard to the enquiry, whether the
co=ratlon, if th*Committee were in truth ne-
eg
renewal of the Charter would be proposed duri .
ce
, les revhalled not been proposed beforri this session, he was happy to eay9 that he believed
four weeks of the Session had elapsed ? Next he
l(would, as the preliminary steps were in great for.
wished to be informed, whether it was at all ,
Probs. I wardness. Private negociations between the Ego
isle that the Report, supposing the Committee 'Wilk I India Company and the Ministers were absolutely.
necessary, before any proposition was made to the
to be nominated, could be in the hands of Members
before the general concerns of the Fast India Com- House. He was surprised to hear the revival of the
puny were investigated on the question of the re- Committee objected to, by those who, when the
I accounts were laid upon the table, had strenuously
newel of the Charter ? In the third place, he begged
I oa
to know, whether the Honourable Member believed insisted upon its appointment. The principle
it was possible for the Committee to embrace all the 4 which the Charter had been granted was wholly mic.
necessary objects of previous enquiry, so that full i taken: it ought to be recollected, that it was only
and complete explanation upon them might be af.
I in which the country had since been continual's en. formed as a peace arrangement, and the state of war
forded to the House? It appeared to him, that un- ,
less the Report were in truth already prepared, anti I gaged, was not in the contemplamation of the Legit.
and only waited the sanction of a Committee, the i
Report could not be laid upon the table in sufficient !attire.
Mr. CREEV EY observed, that at the termination
time to be of the slightest use in the deliberation of of his speech he had omitted to move, that the Housel
the great ultimate question. The Chancellor of the resolve itself into a Committee to consider the pre.
sent state of the Affairs of the East Indrt C 'mpany.
Exchequer to-night, as was usual with him whenever
the slightest occasion offered, had indulged in a strain The SPEAKER observed, that such an anu:al-
of exultation upon the present state of the country, :meat was now out of order. The question nu then
which was calculated greatly to deceive the public : put and carried without a division, and the Cow-
in reality, he could not avoid doing the Right lion. mittee revived.
Gentleman the justice to think, that throughout the Mr. 11. MARTIN gave notice, that on Monday
seinitight he would move for leave to bring in a Bill
whole of his unfortunate administration, he had him-
self been grossly imposed upon, or he never would to regulate the Office of Registrar of the Court of
willingly have reduced the nation to its present condi. 'admiralty.
tion of distress and wretchedness. The,
lion. Gen-, ' . Mr. BROUGHAM gave notice, 'that he would
tleman, late a Director of the East India Company, to-morrow move for some papers relative to the grant
had asserted, that during the Protectorate the Mee. :of licences by the Board of Trade ; but from the
cantile Interest had been reduced almost to ruin, by a j indistinctness with which the notice was given, we
free trade to the settlements in the Indian Seas, and I, could not learn the particulars.--Adjourned.
joined in a Petition to have a monopoly establish-
ed. This statement *as perfectly correct, but did
it not always happen, that when a new channel of
commercial profit was opened, it was choked at first
by greedy speculators, who suffered in the attempt;
but that future adventurers, availing themselves of
former example, derived most important benefits
from that which had proved the ruin of their prede-
cessors. Was not this opinion verified by the expe-
rience of our own day, and were not the years, or
rather months (for it had not lasted a year), of pros-
perity—so much the boast of Ministry, to be attri-
huted to this cause ? Was not the unbounded spirit
of speculation which had raised that part of the re-
venue to a height it had never beforeattained, created
by Administrationetud the Board of Trade, who held
out a fallacious idea, that successful commerce could
be carried on to various situations, when nothing but
almost indiscriminate ruin could ensue ; and whether
by their means the Gazette had been crowded with
bankrupts, thus reducing whole families to irreme-
' diable and unmerited distress ? If these pleas-
ing but delusive hopes had not been held oat,
it was true the Right Honourable Gentleman
would neither before have had to congratulate
the count'', on the flourishing state of our finances,
i nor would he now have had to lament the
' rapid decline of our national prosperity. Ills
Honourable Friend (Mr. Creevey), and the two
Members for Liverpool, had depicted to the House
in colours that could not be too strong, the !Aden-
choly condition of that once prosperous town. They
had shewn that many thousands of its inhabitauts,
formerly gaining by their industry an easy compe.
I tence, were now reduced to beggary, and were cora-
-1 pelted to seek relief with the parish poor. These
assertions the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not
attempted to deny, and it remained a miserable sam.
I pie of the fruits of that mistaken policy, which he
and hlsstrirporeers hadTtotn the hegiutting n'taititained.
The fact spoke for ittielf, and could net be contro- ,
verted by the statement of figures to which the Right
Honourable Gentleman had resorted. The last fines- !
tion he had to put, and to which he thought the House ,
required an auswer, was, whether it were the inten.
1 tion of Government to propose the renewal of the '
I Charter of the East India Company, during the pre-
sent Session ? If satisfactory replies were not given
to these interrogatories, he should feel himself bound
' to vote against the motion proposed.
Lord FOLKESTONE was of opinion, that if
the Report of the Committee now proposed were not
very different from their former statements laid before
Parliament, little or no useful information relating
to the question of the renewal of the Charter would
be obtained from it. It was true, ae had been said,
that these. Reports had produced some beneficial ef-
fect, bad only to the Company, since upon them two
loans to the East India Company of 1,500,0061. 4ati
been founded, but they comprised no opinions re-
garding the great question of policy, and no exami-
nations of persons, who, from local knowledge,
could throw the faintest light upon the subject.—..
One Honourable Gentleman on the other side of
the House bad stated, that the Report was prepared,
and that it only awaited the appointment of a Com-
mittee, that It should be laid upon the table. If
such were the fact, it would be a mere farce to ac-
cede to the motion proposed, since a Committee of
the House was not to be degraded to an office that a
etemeoget mould perform, that of brining the Re-
.

TE149:11 HUNDRED P011,511/8 REWARD
psr, yesterday Morning, Wednesday, Feb-
°.a./ •Niary
_5, 1512, out of the BLUE COACH, sip the noel
lnsai LONDON to RR 14311T03, throne' MITCHAM aoi
SUTTON. a P tRCEI., containing V 7114011/ NOTES, all of the
MILIGHTON UN lON BANK, anal sent from the Bank o(
essrs. Weston, Pinhom, and Co. in the Borongh.
The Numbers of ettch tool every Note are accurately takes
In the Masker's Bnoks,ns under :-Ps) meat of them is sooppeA.
-Any Person or Persons giving Information, 6o that'the afore,al4
Parcel tan he rerovered, shall receive the above Reward, h)
'applying to Mosses. Weston, Pinkeye, and Co. Bankers, 80.
rough, Southwark ; or at the Union Bank, Brighten.
NUMBERS OF FIVE POUND NOTES.
123, 36, 154, 519, 540, 352, 369, 376. 391, 998, 447, 527.
534, 07. 539, 556. 594. 60, 610, 6111. 650, 678, 685, 816,858.
668., 874, 1010. 1021. 1018, 1017. 1059, Istoo, 1071, 1084,109;
11.'1 1191. 113 e. 1199, 1161, 1167, 1169, 1185, 1327, 1294
1353; 1360, 1363, 1396. 1399, 1441, 1445. 1159, INA 1715,
1186, /775, 1776, tll9. 1227. 2265. 2193. 1307. 1392, 239.3, 1117
! 2140, 51191, 4431,1444. 2447. 2487, 2501, 2617, 1691, 9633, 2639:
2646, 9678,1691, 9116, 2711, 915.1, 2770, 2773, 9791, 1799, 4'07.
144:3, 2631,1856. *499, 2904, 21194, 49/31, 9983, 5005, 3013, 519 i,
30 1, 3431, 3140.9156, 3160, 3171, 3175, 3200.
\ UMBERS OF TEN POUND NOTES.
7,10 s 27, 37, 70, 89, 211, 227,228, 231, 247, 264, 437, 399,539.
407, 408, 412, 435, 438, 458, 459,465, 468, 474,4711,701, 71:17,7142,
791, 716, 753, 767, 774, 787, 795, 798 902. 916,946, 975. 111%
! 1W; 1135,1159, 1264, 1266, 1766, 1509. 15181 1513. 1573, 1577,.
' 1610, 1617,1615, 1640, 1686, 1803, 1807, 1851, 1881.168v,m00
1894, 1900, 1937, 1946, 1952, 1957,1955, 1966, 1970,1971,1973,
1969, 1. 85,1986, 1992, 1995, 4011, .2065, 2077, 2(9, 2098, 9lr.
9154. 9151,1165, Me, 9259, 3196, 99019 3901, 3310, 3321, 951,.
3359, 3360, :MI, 1471, 9409, 3437, 3157,3480, 3426, 3487, 3415.
3497, 3518, 3520, 3637, 3516, 3559, 3571, 3579, 9616, 3694,361/,
3683, 9691, 3718, 3744, 3751, 3760, 9776, 3782, 4099, 4032, 40E
4083, 4012, 4121, 4194, 4129, 4133, 4166, 4171, 4195.
NUMBERS OF 'wry POUND NOTES.
No. 9836 and Na. 3845.
NUMBERS OF FIFTY POUND NOTES.
Nos. 3f0..i. 3808 and 1616.
And 891 NOTES of ONE POUND each.
iltrr Palllefll of the wbok is stopped.

-Arr. Shills. D.
4 .b.
Waser6.4 1
O Mks •• • / 1
O
... ••• • =1,.....reef .............. t
i 0
' I .

Paws OF STOOKS THIS
kat
per Cent. Cons. 62ei
3 per Cent. lied. tin
4 per Cent.
S per Cent. Navy 943
Long. Ana. 161

DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK.
Maki Boo& Ifs. les. pr.
iii ter Hilts 3d.
Di Std. 5 8 pr.
Manton, dig.
Consols for Acct. 6!U
Lottery Tickets

THE STATESMAN.

LONDON:
FRIDAY, tESIWARY 7, 1812.
The Dotterel, of 18 guns, has arrived at Falmoio:
with dispatches front Lisbon ; but, as she left t'
T■gus three days before the vessel which brought t' :e
qfficial accounts of the fall of Ciudad Rodrigo, boe
caussot have brought any news.

We have received the Dublin Papers of Monday
last,
from which it apppears that Government hale
abandoned all further steps against the Catholic De.
legates. The following proceedings relative to tlu
subject took place in the Court of Kin.;'s Bench q
Monday
COURT OF KING'S BENCH.
Tke Judges did nqt come into Court until nor
three o'clock.—Judge DowxEs said, that in the Ca'
tke Kum v. H t.RVIT) the Twelve Indies ha