The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-05-12 00:00:00

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riot to -all upon him for his views' et *his opinion.
tjlu pri itts oCestiiool he stated &AV; but every
he had sal I, every propositionlie had offer.
e,t, wet by them diaregattleil. No one was more
protnpt than the Right Honourable Gentleman
(Nlr. Pcrceval) Jo controvert, and the House in
its wisdom was pleased to overrule them. Ne.
vatet.i..ei, lie then felt it his duty to Stand by
tie ivileees of the Commons of Englama ; and
in the exercise of that duty, in advertion to the
pirtieular line of conduct which in his view
eoield then be pursued, be begeed to impress
tears the Il nose the paramount and absolute
wessity of "tittering, in every step that it
to ,k, to the ancient rule of practice observed by
their ancesters, in their contests fur the preservation
of their privileges. He Was aware that in what I,
Le was aboet to recommend, he run the risque of '
es pesing himself to a- considerableategree of polio.'
lir odium. But that man would ill deserve cons,.
der ition, who, deterred by the appiehension • of
popelar reproof, would, in any great atorpress.
ing emergency, surrender to his feats the comic.
tion of his judgment. [Hear, hear!] By such an
impression he trusted never to be iooduenced to
swerve hoes his public duty. Never, he trusted,
when the events of that day becatni the subject of
future recital and remark, should it be said of
him, if so humble an individual had claim to
observation, that ho was a man, who, in cone
tratliction to !Os fullest convictioa, but in cons.
pliant-0 with popular delusion, surrendered the pri.
u,'eges of the Commons of Linked, and by such
surrender, gaveS fatal and irrecoverable blast tothe
liberties of England. [Hear, hear, heart]—,
It .rerting then to the ancient rule of practice, it'
was invariably the custom of that House to Coln-
luit
atiy pet s.in %she made himself the instroment
of calling into geestioti its privileges. Upon that
rule of practice, he did feel it his duty to state
Lis *pinion, that the Solicitor who had caused 1,
the notice of action to be served upon the
50(eaker should be committed. Snob a course was
nut alone the practice. of that house; it oas acted
upon its all Courts Wrested with the power of
cominittnent for a contempt Of its jurisdiction.
in the Court of Chancery, for instance, is here
an injisitetion had been granted to stay pro-
ceedings in an action) at law, the attorney who
would, after such venture to proceed,
would subject himself to an attivhitiont, and be
most certainly punished for a conterasitt of the jti..,
visdicliun of I liat Copt t. Was not then the House
of Commons folly empowered to take steps against ,
a solicitor ago hail proceeded to call its Speaker
to answer for conduct taken in obedience to its
will, an,l which that Moose had adjudged to he tie.
cosary for the protection of its privileges? Most
undoulatedly it had, and itS in such a ease the must
correct tine was to follow the conduct of their
aticeetors, the, enforcement of such a right in th'e
present instance was must advisable. The nest
triestion tip be considered was the peculiar situation.l
in which the Speaker of that House was at present'
;laced. To many Members it appeared a most mon.
Oren: nomelty, that the Speaker or the House of
Coitetioes shoild be obliged to appear in trite of
the Gems below, for an act which .he had dime,
In persitance of the orders of that House. A
novel procetelieg it certainly .seme for whith-
there was no orticadent ; al to an.action brought
against the Sp. akeri and of ItofOrmation, the in.
ances were rare. Yet nsenstious as it appeared
to sone, and novel as it must seetn to ail, it
was his ferns persuasion that the Speaker ought
to appear and to put in his plea to the action.
Stich course was open to him without the slight.
vat appreliensi in of his surrendering in the re.
m itest decree the privileges of that House,
and such course the House could adopt, al.
thiingli it had determitted to commit the Solici-
tor. Xs an illeet:•ation of that opinion, he would
septum OW Cage of an individual committed by
the Coert of Chancery for contempt, whose soli-
citor instituted an action in a Court of Law
for false i•iiitrisonnieut against the Chancellor.
What were the steps which it must be auestinteil
the L ,rd Chancellor Would-under such tin:11111%W-
-C•S take ? For himself he would say, that if
sech a proceeding hail , occurred o lien he had the
honour of holding the Great Seal in Ireland, he
would have certaittl‘; felt it his bounden ditty, under
the juristlictinn of nit own Court, to commit the
solicitor, and to appear it, the Court of Law to
put iii his plea. Fur unless such a COIIIIIIC was
atio;):Cil, how was it possible fur the Courts
to be apprized of the nature of the vase ?...,tow
ass it *ossible for them to inform themselves of
those facts, without the knowledge of which they
could not know whether the injury complained of
vas I'olllllloo in a private or public capacity ?
With respect to that House agreeing to Resolu-
tions in the shape of prohibitions to the Courts of
Law not to entertain causes in which its privileges
were involved, such a course was a complete no-
veil y, on which be coil,' not be expected &cid-
rully to pronounce ; ina,sattich es in the whole
teens(' of reading ate! of practice be had never
met with such a precedent. It was necessary that
the Courts should be informed of the nature of
the-proceeding. The difficulty was as to the mats.,
tier of nuking the communication. Stiveld the
Speaker write ? If he did so, and were he (Mr.
l'onsietby) a Judge, presidieg in the Court
u here titUalrOCCV. was instituted, without meaning]
any lbersofial disrespect to the Speaker, he would
most certainly take no notice of the letter, nor
treat it in that Cutlet with the smallest respect.
If, then, there was no proper mode o? . pro.'
reeding, either by prohibition from that House, or
by notification from the' Speaker, how else was.
Co. House to proceed, except by his appearance?,
For, surely, to leave the Court of Law
in inor-
once of the future of the case, and afterwards to
find fault and tit:oriel with proceedings which that
Court might allow, from the want of the Worms.
tom which the Speaker could give, would be an es.
treme exercise of tthe power of t bat House, a as etch
of its privileges, %which, with some justice, might
subject then) to the severest reprobation of the
people. IJponl4very view of the case, it was his
opinion that the Speaker should plead, and that
the plea should' state, that the act of which the
Plaintiff complai.ned was done in obedience to the
-.orders of the House of Comuions) and that

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TRZ

there existed in no other Court a power to ielidve
him. If after that appearance was made, and
such information was communicated, a Court of
Law should still think proper to proceed, by such
act it would, in his view, most certainly exceed its
jurisdiction...it would go far beyond the limits
of its authority and power ; but, indeed, he could
not bring himself to conceive that any constitutional
tribunal of the land, that any Judge would ven-
ture..-venture he would not say, because he could
not imagine that those placed in such wise and .ele-
vated situations could, under any circumstances,
be guilty of that' which would most certainly
amount to a gross dereliction of their duty..-a
' gross transgression of the law of the land. But
such a consequence he could not anticipate, feel-
ing the confidence he did in the learning, the
wisdom, and the purity of the legal tribunals
of the country. Nor would he restrict that con-
fidence to the Courts of Law ; but would extend
it most anxiously to the good sense and observa-
tion of the country at large. Should events unfor-
tunately prove that he had been mistaken in the
depeudence that he had placed upon the nation's
sense—should it, or any considerable portion of it
continue •to be impressed with the fallacious
thought that the possession of the privileges of the
House of Commons was fatal to the liberties of
the peoplethould it exert itself for the pernici.
ous purprise of undermining those Privileges, then
most certainly the people of England would be
greatly and fatally misled. [near! heart] It was
not because Jhe tote of that House, upon this
or that; public measure, was opposed to the wish
and opinion of the people; it was not because
their representatives had evinced a conduct which I
the constituent body at large disapproved ; it oat
nut beeanse &MO of their decisions could not
be defended, that the power of the Commons
of Ettgland sheetd be then curtailed. No ;
• they Were to be defended' even under such circuit).
stances, because a blow aimed at them even in
aIsaa•UOUSO Of 'Commons would affect and over.
throw its privileges, and. with them the people's
liberties t brought every succeeding Parliament.
Bet it might be contended that the possession and.
exercite of such' privileges as that recently ques.
Limned was too great and too dangerous to be
continued in any Ilouse of Commons. They were,
Iwo ewer, berm: in periods of our history is which
the people of England were . most high met.
tied, and jesluits of the slightest invasion
of their 11aertiet.. They were admitted in
some of the best periods of our history, whit
many of our ablest predecessors were engaged
in arduous centests for the rights of the people.
•Ulear,heart] lewas sincerely to be hoped that the
people would continue to respect them, inasmuch
l as they were the best barriers of protection to their
own most valuable interests. For iii that [louse
ought the people to expect, and to it they should
look for security anti protection. There was a
new doctrine afloat, and a strange direction given
to the polestar hop:. %Whilst their reclines were
estranged from the Commons, the roil's; of Ens;-
find were directed to look to the Crown for the
guardianship of their rights. What! the Crown
protect the liberties of the English peoale ? At-
. tacked as he was to limited monarchy, he would csiu.
to there never was, during the o hole period of oar
history, a monarch, except the virtsunannmarch
~now upon the throne of these realms, who ever
• loved a House. of Commons...there never was a
King, with the same exception, who was nut an
enemy to public liberty. Ile Cosmic)i this apinion
upon no invidious comparisons of one reign with
another. It was human nature ; amid taere never
yet lived the man who loved th it power, which
acted as a controul upon his wishes and his pas..
suns. That the family of Brunswick would long
c infinite to support these principles, for the de-
fence of which the people of this kingdoms placed
them on the throtie, all were ready to believe.—
But who would take Nine himself to say, that
even in future successions of that I amity a Prince
might not appear jealous of the influmice of the
people, and anxious to destroy their weight in
the constitutional balance. Under such a state
of events, to whom could the people, look for
protection and support ? What branch of the
Constitution 'could they depend upon ((tea success.
ful Tes' istance. to the encroachmetts, that threaten-
ed their liberties with extinction? To the House
of Commons in the full possession of those privi.
hies, the etlicacy of which the rash and the the.
laded would slow wish to diminish ?—[blear!
heart.] Was it not the Haase of Comment,
supported by the.voice of the nation, that resisted
successfully the tyrannic encroachments of the
Stuarts, and ultimately dethrone.l that family,
when it was found impossible to indlice them to de-
sist from their arbitrary prucedings ? Never was
there propagated doctrine more pernicious and de.
lusive than that which' went to alienate from that
(louse the popular confidence, in order to give it to
the Crown. True it might be, that from acts of that
House the confidence of the Nation was sbaketi—
trite it might be, that it was considered• rather the
instrument of the Minister than the organ of the
public voice (an opinion which considered pressed
ton far in this country) ; yet even under all these
admissions, it was not upon the Crown that he
could be; induced to depend for the preservation of
the people's rights. if the grievauces of which the
country complained were to be attributed to the
construction of that House, let that construction be
altered, if the Nation wished and demanded it. But
whilst it was necessary that a discretionary potter
'should exist, where, he asked, could it be entrusted
with more safety, than to the Representatives
of the People. of Esigtatid? (hear, hear!) But
then it had been contended, that though there was
no objection to concede a discretionary power to
that Honse, yet its exercise should be limited.
Was then the Court of King's Bench, or was
public opinion to be the standard of regulating to
what extent the power should be exercised ? If
the King's Bench was to possess the power of try.
ing the legality of its 'privileges of commitments
for libel, it would be invested with the powex
of being the Judge of every privilege' of that
House. There could be no limitation,' The
very. right of .holding a plea in the case of l
net would constitute the right of trying Ai
extent of privilege in any ether cue. Suppose a per.

`IITSMAN.

...

F--
ult.
sotewascommitted for striking and violently assa
ing the Scrjeant at Arms, er any Messenger of the
House in the execution of their duty, and that for
sloth breach of privilege it committed him. He
brings his action in a Court of Law ; nothing can
prevent hint, and the Cowl most hold plea, upon the
principle, that it had interfered before in the caseof
libel, and that it must now see whetter the House
of Cominorm bad the power to do.the act or nut.
In such case, what became of the privileges of the
Commons of England? Again—was public opinion
to be the criterion fur limiting their exercise? Set up
such a standard, and fancy,if you can, the mischiefs
which would must infalliby be the consequence.
'Then would you place the privileges of this House
at the mercy of contenditig factions, both bid.
ding against each other at this auction of popula-
rity, until privilege and liberty fell a sacrifice to
their selfish and unprincipled objects. [llearlhearl]
One democracy of faction would he destroyed
only to be succeeded by a worse; extinction of all
order and all virtue would follow in their train,
ultimately to secure the absolute rule of a single
individual [hear, hear!!. Let the country fealeill.
ber the miseries under, which, hem such causes, it
once suffered : Let it remember the recovery it has
had : Let it remember that period of its history when,
in the reign of the first Chariest, that unhappy Prince
was redticed by the constitutional exertions of .the
House of Commons to desist, in a great degree,
from his arbitrary acts of prerogative, and the sa.
lutary prospect presented itself of a free and legi.
innate government. From what causes was it that
such exertions proved abortive ? It was because a
faction sprung tip in that House and in this mom.
try, who, arrogating to themselves all the pa.
ttiotisin and public spirit •ia the asation, misre-
presented, defamed, and crushed the wise and
1 hottest men of all parties [hear, . hear !]--..a
faction who possessed great talents but no vir-
tues (hear, hear !)---with purity in their mouths,
but profligacy in their hearts...who talked of li-
berty, but meant dcpotism [Cries of hear, hear!
from both sides of the House] who sought the
Lord but found I Crown. [lteiterated cries of
hear, hear 1) if England, with the example of
all former ages before her,. and particularly with
the awful example of such a calamitous visitation,
.shall be so infatuated as to relapse into such dan.
gerous and delusive errors, then I pronounce that
she is doomed to sutler more grievous calamities
than has ever yet befallen any nation upon the
earth, [Bear, hear!] atol what is more galling,
and te..,se aggravated, she is doomed so to suffer
unditied and unreprieved. [Continued applause,
from both sides of the House.]
Mr. ADAM expressed his intention not to tree.
pass at any length upon the attention of the Hoe*,
tarter the (bend, constitutional, and eloquent
speech which lie had just beard from his Right,
Bon. Friend. '!'here Was nut, either in 1113 prin.
tildes, doctrines, or illustrations, a single point
that did •not conic home to his miud with feeling
amid kith conviction. But most particularly did
he acquiesce with hilt in the reprobation which
he pronounced on that monstrous - delusion of
inking for popular protection to rho Crown,' by
disregarding the. House of Commons., Before the
motion was put, he was anxious (although it
might he inefficient to prevent the process in the
pieseet case) to Lamm. uouttilt; dowse the ne-
cessity of coating tort declaratiett, which
to
in
limina, put an end to all such applicatireer against
the privileges of that House, which would so de.
tine i.s privilege, and operate in the Courts below
as a bar to such actions as effectually as if it were
a physical bar. There teasels°, in his opinion, a
motion that should preckle the present ; untie.
terred by any unpopularity that may follow from
supporting it, he still felt Whit duty to cling to
the ancient practice of that Hense, and to avow
that, in his opinion, ii was incumbent on it to
commit the Solicitor. Such a course might not in
that stage of the business, probably prevent the ac.
tion going on awhile, but it would secure the privi-
leges of that Ilottse. Were that measure adopted,
things would be as correct as possible up to the
present period.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
declared, that the general tenor of the eloquent
speech of the Right Honourable Gentleman oppo-
sites was such, that he should he sorry by recur.
ring to any irritating subject, to interrupt the im-
pression which that speech must necessarily have
'Untie on the House. Ile could not refrain from
repeating his regret, that iii a case in which the
:Bight nun. Gentleman himself conceived that. the
rights and privileges of the House, were at stake,
he had abstained, from lending his assistance to the
Committee, in order that they might arrive at a
right conclusion. Thu Right lion. Gentleman
had talked. of the unfortunate situation in which
the House stood :..-What unfortunate situation?
Only that situation to which it must be neces.
sarily exposed on every exercise of its privi-
leges, however moderate. The mere temporary
iusprisonment of a Member, for the purpose of
bringing him to the Bar to, receive a reprimand,
would form as good a ground for an action as the
rash step (as the Right lion. Gentleman termed
it) which he had advised the House to adopt with
respect to Sir Francis Burdett. Besides, could
any one who had observed the subsequent conduct
of that honourable Baronet doubt, that if be had
beets brought to the Bar to be reprimanded, in.
stead of having been sent to the Tower, he
would have preferred an action against the Speaker
for ordering him into custody, -or that he would,
wlleit at the Bar, hare so insulted the dignity
of the House, as to drive them to the adop.
tiun of the severer measure ? With w hat justice,
therefore, could it be said that the House bail been.
brought into unheard.of and 117peakable calamity
and distress? If there were any imbecility in
their privileges, he did not regret that that inibeci.
lity had beets discovered at a time whets they would
have ample opportunity• either to consider the
mode of protecting the rights which they. had, 'or
the constitutional means of acquiring the power
to protect them. ibi deprecated, therefore, such
'an emphasis on the diiiculty of the Battalion in
which the House was placed, confident that the
!Mouse had nut exercised a right which they did not
possess—he was 'confident that they had ttot ex.
ceded dais privileges-46 was eaufithiut that au

authority, no Judge in the lan 1, when he learned
that it was a question in which the privileges of
the House of Commons were implicated, would
determine upon it. lie entertained no appre.
hension, therefore, that either the dignity or
the privilege of the House of Commons was
endangered. The Law prescribed the course
which the House ought to pursue, and %%bleb thew
might therefore tread without danger. After al.
lading to the precedent of Sir F. Pemberton and
Sir T. Jones, he adverted to .the statement made
by his Honourable Friend, namely, that a letter
might be written by the Speaker to the Lord
Chancellor, on which the Chancellor would use
cessarity issue a writ of supersedes:. Although
he could not admit that this alternative of his •
Hon. Friend was so absurd as it was asserted to
be, yet, as such a measure would be effective only
during the Session, he must allow, that the proceed.
' lug would be of too limited a nature for the House
10 adopt. He, amt those who acted with him, had
been thought deficient in their duty fur not hae.
leg recommended the commitment of the So.
licitor. For his part, he thooglit it wise in the
ileum) not to avail itself fur that purpose of the
unprecedented and unnecessary notice which hail
been.sent to the Speaker. If the House had con.
milted the Solicitor by whom that notice was tent,
which they had an unquestionable right to do,
was it not probable that another Solicitor would
have been appointed who would not have sent
a notice but would hare brought an action ?
Would the House hive committed hint fur that?
flow could they distinguish whether that action
was preferred against the Speaker in his public or
in his private capacity. If they had asked he
Solicitor, he would probably have 'answered
that the interests of his client require 3 seers-
cy.--Woutd the Ilnuse have 'committed him
on that statement ? if they had done so, he
thought they should have acted rashly. It nos
in the anticipation therefore of all those dilfieu).
tics that the commitment of the Solicitof had not •
been recommended. Those who had told him that
lie was wrong in advising the commitment of Sir
F. Burdett without foreseeing that he would re.
sist the warrant, could surely not censute him fee
not having advised the commitment of the Soli.
citor. Besides, in thit case, the /Liege *old
have to commit the Barrister. If one Barrister
was committed. another might be found; or no.
thingneed be done by the. parties, but to n ait till
the cud of the Session, when they would be at li.
" berty to proceed. By any such commitments,
therefore, the House would only have shown their
resentment, without being able to vindicate their
privileges. The openness with which be found it
necessary to speak on these subjects, induced him
once More to lament that the Honourable Gentle-
men opposite felt such an alienati.in to an ap.
roach to their political adversaricsi even on A
subject of such general interest, that they would
not join them in the'Committee, in which it could
be so much better discussed. With respect to
the proposition recommended by his Honour.
able Frived who had immediately preceded him,
he thought that the House would do well to adopt
the motion before them in preference to it ; and
.adverting to the assertion of the Xoble Lord who
had spoken early in the debate, that this course
was novel in principle, he positively denied that
assertion.. That the Ileuse.slid nut Abrog feel
themselves called upon to he vindicators of their
own authority was established by numerous prece.
dents.. It was a matter entirely of discretion. In
cases of moving fur a ilubes; Corpus, the Judges
could not issue the writ, because, until the return
aas made to it, they could not asc..rtain the cause
of commitment. Invariably, however, such per.
sons were remanded. If the Solicitor knew the
cause of the commitment of his client-,-which he
unque,tionably must, ho was sullied to commit.
meta himself for the proceeding. 'I here was nu in.
stance, however, he believed, in which such a eoni.
mitment had taken 'place ; but there were any
instances in which it had ne; taken place.
lie maintained that there was nu more reason for
committing the Solicitor in the case under dikes-
sion, than there was for committing aSolicitor
who had sued out a Writ of Babes, Corpus on
an iudividual committed to his' knowledge for a
breach of the privilegek of the House of Com-
mons. In both cases the House might if they
chose exercise the privilege of commitment, and in
both cases it was perfectly in their dissuasion to
abstain from it. He cgratulated the House thst
on the present questioonn there appeared very little
likelihood of any difference of opinion. lie re.
' juiced particularly that on that part of the sub.
jest upon which he had apprehended the greatest
difference, there seemed a general cuncerrence of
sentiments. lie had feared that those who were
impressed with the necessity of carrying the pr:.
vileges of the House with ailigh lead, would have
been inclined Co proceed with extremities, which
he was glad to find they did not propose.
Mr. PONSONBY, in explanation, observed,
that the Right lion. Gentleman had misquoted
Aim. What he had said was, that that Right
Honourable Gentleinan had led the lionse to the
exercise of its privileges in a case which did not
call for it, and which called for the disapproba.
tion of the publit.. lie thought it an unfortunate
situation fur riot Heine, when .. considerkble
.proportioti of the people disapproved of its pre.
ceedingi. . . .
Mr. C. W. WYNNE agreed most folly In every
thing that bad fallen from his Right floneareble
Friend (Mr. Ponsonby). He held it to be, the
duty .f that House to, follow up .tho steps which
bad ban tioddett by its predecessors. Hy &mild
be for committing any Solicitor, whom he could
collect from circumstances to be apprised of his
being engaged In heloging an action against the
speaker bi violation of the privileges of that
House. ThisiOns his opinion; and, however un.
eopular it might be, he should be ashamed if he
(weld abandon his duty, or hesitate to declare It.
Sir S. agailinitit, after the part he had taken
in the former discetsions upon this subject, could
nut suffer the present question to go to a vote
without oiling a few words, to state shortly his
opinion raectiug certain doctrines which had been
advanced in the course of that night's discudion.
Qe the creation he bad no doubt ,whatever; as, in