The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-02-09 00:00:00

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met kt it pass without a few observation. With refer
.' it to what had already passed in the course of the
discussion on this subject, he begged to express his con-
vietion that it was now more necessary than ever that
Web petitions should he sent to that House. His reason
be thinking this was, that more unjust, calumnious. and
leipbed attacks had been made upon her Majeety after
nOguittal, that ever were made even before. If he had
beeettad that after the prosecution which had been
web& on anklet her Majesty in the other House was
etedea, the prosecutors would be found coming down
rte the House of Onamons, that they could have
peodoeml such sad such evidence if they had chosen.
which evidence they did not produce, he declared on his
own part, that lie would not have believed it : and hr
was sure the Noble Lord opposite would have been the
gest to deny the possibility of such conduct heing prac-
tied. He repeated that he would not have believed it,
eves with the full previous knowledge he had of the pro-
set:atom, who had, before trial, withheld the title of
Queen is speaking of her, and had sent her to he tried.
by a trihenal than which he thought it impossible that
say weld be formed which must come to decision with sit
'lOllll prejudice audimenitch interest, It had been charged
spun the AttornersOeneral and his Majesty's Ministers,
Ilia haefog failed lu their attempt to convict her Majesty
at the bar of the WASP of Lords, they hail bethoiight
thenseekes of a mhos ft' slandering lier;by circulating
throaglsout the country, at their own expense. stete-
"mats relative to the subject which were calculated to
hpve that elect, but which statements were without
Touvelation. This charge had not yet been denied, and
it was necessary they should know if it was to he. When
his Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham) was refused to be
heard in wishisse to make observations which would
haw beam admitted at any honest tribunal. these slaw
Jere bad been allowed to circulate for three weeks,—
a thing nnwalleled in a case of character and repute-
teas:: The late proceeding against her Majesty was a
Parlianteatary proceeding. not complete withoutgoing
through the two Houses of Parliament ; and therefore it
was jnstly conceived that her Majesty woad have her
trial in the House of Commons. Therefore, although
itZeitt have been possible fur her Majesty to have pro-
d all her evidence to the House of Lords, as the de-
lay would hr much shorter in the other House, there
existed eseellent reasons for withholding some parts of
it. It was impossible to foresee that the matter would
not rouse down to the House of Commons ; but after all
was done in the other House, her Majesty's prosecutors
soddenly tell her that she is not to have .' trial, or an
opportnnity of vindicating herself. lint even after it
was finished In this manner in the House of Lords, the
speeches of certain members of that House, or more we-
reedy speaking, perhaps. pamphlets purporting. to be
such speeches, were industrionsly circulated through the
troantry seder Government franks. That was a charge
against his Majesty's Ministers whirl' be gave them an
opportunity of denying. The apprehension of her Me.
jest?, prosoontion'heing renewed in that House, ought
to liave bees removed front the mind of her Majeety and
the artistry at the earliest moment, and as that lied nut
been done, it was scarcely possible to believe that this
proarcutios bad yet terminated. If it were not in-
tended to go on with it, why was the House de-
prived of the attendance of the Right llononrahle
tuber for Liverpool t or why were Ministers deprived
of his aid when they stood so lamentably in need of it?
And why, if there were not some lingering intention of
this nature. did the Noble Lord opposite, when this pa-
cific declaration was scarcely out of his mouth, come
down to that House and speak of her Majesty in such
terms and epithets as could scarcely be justifiable tinder
any circumstances? lie would pursue this strain no
further, but he would pnt a case : He would suppose
that under a theatre of Ministry, any one of the Rx-Mi-
Meters should be accused, and a charge brought against
him by the party at the time being, in power. He would
suppose the offence with which this individual should
be charged to have been committed in Ireland *boot the
Vow of the Union Act ; and he would suppose the af-
fair itself to be bribery, and that reports on the snbject
Prevailed to a vast extent in Ireland. Suppose, in fol-
lowing up the charge, these Ministers should send out
a Commission to collect evidence and examine ihorough•
Le into the matter, and follow the whale up by a Bill of
Pales and Penalties. If the Bill of Pains anti Penalties
*era inch that it pledged the House of Lords, or the
whole of the supporters of the said Ministry to carry it
throngh—and if when in the House of Lords, it bad been
abandoned by its abashed prosecutors, what wonl'l they
say Win the Rouse of Commons the Minister was to say
--Oh! oar case u-as confined within certain limits—we
could have produced eighty witnesses of the fact if we
had chosen? Was it possible, he asked, that the House
of Commons could sit by and endure it: Was it possi-
ble, he asked, that they could sit by and hear their
geese so treated without coming forward to shield her
tram it? and bad he not described the conduct of the
:Noble Lord ? lie (Mr. Denman) hail never any doubt
of the illegality of the omission of her Majesty's name
to the Liturgy, and had never lost an opportunity of
expressing his opinion to that effect. The Queen was
nate accused of having done what she hail all along done
--Amending her just rights. All lie had to say on the
general subject was, that if, when the Noble Lord came
drown to that House with his money in one band, and •
Lis reputed charges in the other, had her Majesty ac.
vented his money she would have shewn herself unwor-
thy of that generous devotion to her caiNe which the
whole people of Kngland had so strongly manifested.
and which they twilit' tontines to *hew in spite of all
the attempts that might be made to restrain them.
Lori CASTLERRAOH rose to state that it was not
his intention to follow the Hon. and Learned Gentle•
man into the wide field of discussion which lie !sad
breschesl—rot that be was averse to meet him upon
any or all the points he bad dilated upon, but because'
he thought it would be much more convenient for the
House, and more in order with the usual form of,
their debates, for him (Lord C.) to wait until the
question of the Liturgy (of which a notice stood on
their paper fur so early a day as Tuesday) came regu-
larly ander their consideration.—(Hear. hear!)—It
did net follow that because the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had thought proper, in the discharge of
his professional duty towards her Majesty—(Lund 1
cries of " No," partienlarly from Mr. Denutan)—it
did not follow because the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man had uttered this sort of declamation, that them.'
fore, he (Lord C.) should be provoked to embark la
a premature debate.—(Hear.)--He knew. indeed, Iwo*
plifilkiiit it was to restrain some lion. Members from
~ mg those battles over again in that House which
tittiti
lied before fonght on the hustings in their local
quevadi.--(Hear, hear.)—.-The House hail this day
sees the whole of the performers on the Surrey
hustings again on the stage. diacuseing over again
the points of their dissensions.—(Hear, bear!)—'
Ile knew. from long Parliamentary experienct, the
impossibility of restraiwing lion. Members froia such
points of angry discussion. although, if it o'er, possible
_
to restrain thrift. sonic advat.•• dreg` for
the public business of the
sr ere points that must he left ,
rif hiectlerao themselves ; and i
i heir ankle r, be anpreiteenied then.
Ina to gliie them a patient hearing,
tosio iritestjon it4rif teofece
0 3ee.‘ • - e au.,- i n the LitnrZr
~ Nl—. •c• ... •••'.. .A

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Prn-
fesses to comment, ... got is the
office copy of the brief, from which we desist he
spealts---)
Mr..DENMAN rose to order, and said, " I am hare,
Mr. Speaker, as a Member of Parlianwnt, and as each I
have delivered my own sentiments, I hope in a parlia-
mentary manner.—(Loud cries of " hear.") Am I
therefore to be told by the Noble Lord that 1 ern
'meshing from an office copy of a brief—that lam speak-
ing the sentiments put into my mouth by another ra-
ther than those which are thidictates of my own mind ?
—(Hear, hear, hear).
Lord CASTLEREAGH rose, but the cries of " order"
anal " Mr. Speaker" were so loud, that lie sat down
without being able to give any explanation.
The SPEAKER said, that if the House understood
the language used by the Noble Lord to be such as con-
veyed a direct imputation upon the Hon. anal Learned
Gentleman of a nature to obstruct the freedom of debate,
to which every Hon. Member was entitled, he (the
Speaker) had no difficulty in saying that such language
was highly disorderly.—(Hear.) So far as his recol-
lection furnished him with the import of the particular
expressions used by the Noble Lord on the present ores-
si9n, he did not think them disorderly when used in
reply to an attack which might be deemed of so penotial
a nature. If he took a wrong view of their meaning or
Import, it was for the House to correct him, and say
that he should have alone his ditty hail he interrupted
the Noble Lord at the instant.—(Hear, hear.) •
Loral CASTLEREAGH roer, and said that notliino
was further from his intention Ow' any wish to reflect
personally upon the lion. and Learned Gentleman._
(Ilear.)--Indeed he thought he had diminished rather
than increased the effect of the lion. anal Learned tier.-
tlentin's sentiments, anal which, from the variance they
presented atone moment from ;hose uttered at another,
and particularly in conjunction with Mallon. and Learn-
ed Friend (Mr. Brougham), who was also of her Ma-
jesty's Counsel, certainly were calculated to lead to
the notion, that at one moment the Learned Gentlemen
were delivering their own opinions, while at another
they were merely speaking from their briefs.—(Hear.
Hut certainly, the Hon. and Learned tientleenon had
said to-night, he spoke as a Member anal not as a Coon-
set, he should have takes' a little more rare than he hall
done to state accurately the contents of bia (Lord Castle-
rea gh'e) speech. The lion. and Learned Gentlemaa had
certainly misrepresented his speeds,—(hear, hear )
Now as to what had been said respecting the circulation
of particular speeches, why should the lion. I lentlemen
opposite complain that correct and authentic 'vider of
particular speechea haul been circulated thrmighont the
country ; what else could they expect after the conduct
which they had themselves pursued respecting their
transaction% ? If indeed the 110 ttttt triable Gentlemen
haul been silent when the Rill was withdrawn, then
indeed they might, with souse appearance of reason,
expert that others world have followed their example ;
but had the lion. dent. 'moused that proper anal prndent
course? or had they not at the different meetings at
which they attended, in the must tonspiung terms,
attacked both their public and private motives, and
charged them with eliciting nothing but " filthy lies"
(far that was, lm believes!, the expression) daring the pro-
ceeilingo inatiteteil against her Majesty ?—(llear.)--was
the lion. and Learned Rent. to expert this, end yet at
the same tune to complain, if a more correct copy of the
weed, of any individual, one calculated to remove a
part of the delusion which prevailed, wan to find its way
into any of the post haga?' —(Hear, hear.)-..With refit-
cure to the misrepresentation of his speech the other
night, by the lion. and Learned Gentleman, he begged
tat explain that he had never said any evidence during
the late proceedings was kept hark in the remise of
any discretion. What he had said was this—" that it
was not to be inferred from what had taken place in
the Ilonse of Lords, that the Milan Comm ission bad
before it no solier evidence than that produced during
the trial." That was not the fart; for there was a
large number of depositions given before the Milan
Comndsaion by parties who could nut be prevaile.l upon
to come to England. What he had sail was this, that
there had been eighty depositions before the Milan
Commission from parties who appeetred to the Commis-
sioner% entitled to credit, but who, in consequence of
the treatment of time witnesses at !lover, refused to COMP
over anal give esidence. The lion. anal Learned tient.
ought to have recollected what he and his Leariaed Col-
leagues had alone sinning the trial to render what they
called her Majesty's aospiittal complete. Dial they nut
oppose the overture for a short delay to bring over wit-
nesses who had stopped on the way ? Ile could now
give the Hors. Learned Gentleman notice, that so
lung as he and others who called themselves the Queen's
friends, but w'untn he (Lord i'.) regarded as her most
injudicious adviser., who with objects personal to them-
selves, rather than to the Queen, whom they misled by
their counsels—((tries of hear from the Ministerial
benches, and reverberated frosts the Opposition)—eo
long, he repeated. as the floss. Gentleman opposite in-
dulged in these attacks, so long should lie consoler him-
self as bound by ono restraint in repelling those attacks
by the plain recital of trnth.—(llrar, hear.)
Mr. DENMAN explained
Mr. HUME bergell to call for explanation from the
Noble Lord opposite, respecting one part of his speech,
which contained a statement that a part oldie public press
wan in the pay of her Majesty. Ile believed that the
Noble Lord had no better authority for making that
statement than the lion. Member for Surrey (Mr. Sum-
ner) had for his, on a former nigh!, respecting the
Queen's deli's. The Noble Lord :night, indeed, from
his correct knowledge Fetes one- pert of the rem Woe
paid from authority, infer that 'moths r part was also
paid ; hot. in cinnution justice be callel upon bins to as-
sign some season, or give souse authority, to justify his
assertion.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord CASTLEREAGH made no reply.
(in the motion that it be printed.
Mr. Alderman WOOD said, that he should not have
troubled the house with any observations on the pre-
sent occasion, bad it not been fur souse of the remarks
made by the Noble Lord. (Castlereagh.) The aseathers
for Somerset and Surrey )had talkell of large armrests,
which titer conceived and stated, on hearsay. to
be unpaid by her Majesty; but he understood
that the member for Surrey hail been 'maid* to
get frosts his constitittents any iiiformation ofsnrh unpaid
bills, or of any minis of money paid by her Majesty Gee
getting up processions. lie was, indeed, ready to WM
to the hon. members for Surrey and Somerset. that If
they could produce one instance of a hill hieing saraid,
or of a single shilling bring laid out by her Majesty. SD
;promote or defr iv the expense of proresaions. he isoula
give them 1111tf. for each shilling so discovered.-0
aid hear, bear.)—The Noble Loot, finsliag be
could not substantiate the charges which be made
tinst the Qneen respe.:eing her answers to the Doom
Canterbnry Mallows, the riolst hot, coon/6640w
'of wormis and Wefts (Mr. litolisson) had handed a
hook, in which her majesty was represented so have
- profile." lie hal to tell the noble,
Wood) had examined the ota-i
old that the exprrsaisin these
' cries of " hear, ileac") —Wip
, the Noble Lord. or any other
rater flown tas that lionar
1 stAtimortibt to the rrojtsiirso
regard !Li villa,. do. StAdir

• •

I..afe 'night he derived for lowa the words " my propl;
1...,:ntry.-(11,-Ar.) 'Theft Lord Vim he 01.1crman W
11 to tlAr discretion:and tootr nuteript of that asulu.er,
an
nti if they *lid not, tr;itraill "the people."—(lAotti
tileliousehailtioallrewaticr it then to be toiroisteil that
.acing.—(Heist.) As itstdit.• 1404 lion. mrsolo•r„ slood4i
tem: tlot • omission of Ili« and Pistil. !melt uut-unn.lrti
y, Mat at,. wt fur de;•!tir p,nr of tlistir 4„lti•en W ;I:. re,
Nt .1 s `1414.41:..: .•.•

• •
• THE ATES
that the How. and Learned Gentleman could mot have sunset the Italian wil
waited until that time, but 'boob!, on the present occa- thrit the whole alleged
sion, have blazed forth, upon what, said the Nakis Lord. being laughed at by a
is not to be found in my speech, upon which bo pro- cheers.)
&asps to comment, but %Lich he must have got is doe Mr. HUSK visoN
_ L . I - -.I L.:. V.