The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-04-11 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

the Hon. Gent., although inasmuch se it was garbled, fairly than they did the world. • There had now been brought bbfore the public; he meant the sum of
and was a translation of a translation, it was neces- an attack and a counter-attack between him and the 200,0001 lent to the King of France on his return
airily imperfect, yet be had no hesitation in saying Noble Lord. The Noble Lord might do as he to that country. The total amount of bills drawn
that the general reasoning which it contained pro- pleased; for himself he should pursue undeviating- in 1813, as he had already stated, amounted to
ceedcd from him and that notwithstanding the Hem ly, the course which he had hitherto prescribed to t 17,600,0001.; but this sum must be reduced by the
Gent.'s remarks, he was perfectle prepared to de- himself. amount of the sums advanced for other naval and
fend the soendness of the princit le of that part of it' Lord CASTLEREAGH still maintained that no military objects besides the Army Extraordinarie,
which related to Saxony. With respect to the nature public transaction of an important nature ought to being 2,300,0001. leaving 15,300,0001. Of this suui
of the returns which had been made to the Address be partially discussed on imperfect documents. His of 15,300,0001. that part applied in subsidiary pay-
ee' the House, unquestionably they did not extend return to England afforded no justification whatever ments amounted to 3,000,0001. leeviug.l2,3oo,oool.
to subjects which subsequent negociations must de-' for a departure from the ordinary coarse with re. for Army Extraordinaries. In 1814, the bale drawn
tea mine. Ile had before apologized to the Home few spect to communications on public affairs. The Con. , amounted to 15,990,0001. The difference, after
having been led by the Hon. Gentes breach of the gress which he had recently attended was not the first I deducting the sums applicable for other purposes
rules which ought to be observed on these occasions, that had assembled in Europe. It had happened in ; than Army Extraordinaries, amounted to 12,990,0001.
to commit a breach of them himself, by communi- former meetings of the same nature, thatour Nego- , exceeding the amount of the former by only 600,0001.
eating to Parliament information on the point of Ge- ciator had frequently been changed. Under such:The Right Honourable Gentleman then went into
noa, before the arrangements which had been dis- I circumstances would it have been tolerated that every several other heads, but was so inaudible in the gal-
cussed were actually carried into effect. But the; individual Negociator so returning, should be com- lery, that we found it utterly impossible to form any
lion. Gent. had taken advantage of garbed docu. I pelted to state to Parliament the progress of trans. thing like a distinct notion of what he said. He
meows to throw on the Government of this country, actions not brought to a close? There could be no I wished to explain why one head of expenditure was
and oti all the Sovereigns of Europe, so mnch un- pretetice for such a thing. lie was perfectly aware so large, namely, the excess of the grant to the
founded calumny, that lie (Lord Castlereagh) was filet nothing he could say would have any effect on Commissary in Chief. The sum voted was 3,000,0001.
actually driven out of the ordinary path of Nile. the Hon. Gentleman, but he was sore the House of The sum estimated was 3,400,0001. It appeared
nientery proceeding, for the purpose of defending Commons would feel (lie value of these observations. !I that the excess exceeded, the sum of the vote being
the good faith of ail the parties concerned. Ile To the Hon. Gentleman it was, no doubt, easier to 3,200,0001., which was about 200,0001. short of the
trusted, however, that the abuse of the general rule i calumniate his Majesty's Ministers, and the Allies of estimate, but 200,0001. above the sum voted by Par-
would not henceforward he considered as the role it.l the country, on imperfect documents than on full in- Bement. Very large sums were issued by the Corn.
self ; and that the Hon. Gent. would not suppose that formation, for experience had shown that when he missary in Chief for the purchase of stores of various
because he had induced him (Lord Castlereagh) to proceeded on the latter no one had been less fedi). kinds, which occasioned this apparent excess ; but
pe vert the course in one instance, that he would do ; nate than the Hon. Gentleman in establishing the although the expence of the Commissa • y-General
se in another. He had laid before the House the in. • charges which he had thought proper to addtme bad thus. been increased, the general expences of the
formation respecting Genoa, simply to protect the against public men. He was sure, therefore, that he country had not been thereby increased; for if these
interests of the country from the injury which the I should make no impression on the mind of the Hon. purchases had not appeared in this, they must have
Hon. Gent, was doing to them by his accusations; I Gentleman, And he abandoned the hope of preserving appeared in some other head of the public expendi-
but he was riot therefore to be tempted to go inch. the confidence which it was now evident had been tore. By the exertions of the Commissary-General
dentally and collaterally into other questions not yet given to him by the Hon. Gentleman, only because , the public service had not only been supported
in a state of determination. : be felt that at the moment when it was given he with regard to the amount of specie which he found
Mr. WHITBREAD defended himself from the ' (Lord C.) was unassailable. Having thus given his I means of procuring, but a great saving had been
charge of perverting the rules of Parliament, in or- l confidence, the Hon. Gentleman turned round, and I effected in the mode resorted to by him, com-
der to throw calumnies on the different Govern- ! made his previous candour the ground for a mere vi. pared to any other mode by which the money
ments of Europe. What he had complained of in I relent assault. Without meaning any personal dis- could have been raised. The sum raised for the
the present instance, was the inadequacy of the re- respect to the Hon. Gentleman, or any thing unpar- various services of the army by the Commissary-
turn which had been made to the Address of the : liamentary, he would say, that contemplating the General exceeded three millions, besides part of
House, and in support of that complaint he had i mode in which the Hon. Gentleman had lately the subsidies, which had also been issued by him.—
stated that it was impossible for him to suppose that . thought proper to attack him and the other Members When the House recollected that the late war in the
no annexations had taken place save that of Genoa, of his Majesty's Government, he must be content to ; Peninsula was attended with very heavy expences,
which latter the Noble Lord had confessed in the pa- ! sacrifice the confidence which the Hon. Gentleman which could hardly occur again in any other service
pees that Om it seemed against his will) he had laid had reposed in him, anti to he guided solely by his from the difficulty of procuring supplies, the want
on the table of time House. As to Saxony, he should sense of public duty. He was perfectly prepared to of roads for carriages, and the manlier in which the
be satisfied if he could hope that the Noble Lord defend his own conduct, and that of the other Meet. :.whole of the baggage had to be conveyed, the House
would, at some time, give them information which hers of the Congress, in a parliamentary and legiti.! would not wonder at the amount of this expence.—
should let them peep behind the scenes, and see mate manner ; but not by deviating into that course ; The great Commander at the head of our armies in
what all the Noble Plenipotentiaries (the Noble which the Hon. Gentleman, with a due regard to his the Peninsula, bad found means of doing that which
Lord among the rest) had really been doing. The own honour, ought to quit, and not to continue to was always before considered impossible. It bad
Noble Lord had talked against throwing suspicions lower the character of his country by unfounded and formerly been said, that if the army was large in
on the conduct of the. Allied Powers. Why, what . dangerous representations, which, circulating in Eu. that country, it could not be supported, and if small
was the Noble Lord himself about, when in the let- rope, were most prejudicial to that moral influence ;it would be beaten. But that great man had found
ter which bad that day been published, and which in which the power of Great Britain on the Conti- means of solving this problem, and had supported a
be had acknowledged to be his, he spoke of 44 the nent so essentially resided. I larger army in that country, than had ever before
alarming and dangerous pretensions of Russia!" At Mr. WHITBREAD would make no farther reply : been considered possible. They were now winding
the same time, however, the Noble Lord, it ap. to the Noble Lord than to say, that in giving up the •up the great expenditure of that army. The whole
peered by that letter, thought it perfectly consistent confidence which the Noble Lord said that he (Mr. i had not been paid last year, and part was still in' a
with political morality to give up the whole of Saxony W.) reposed in him, the Noble Lord had given up ; comae of payment. A question had been put to
to Prussia. [fermi Castlereagh—" Quite the re- that which he never possessed. Once more revert. him by a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) what
verse.").--Really it was impossible, writing or ing to the subject in which the conversation which f was the amount of Army Extraordinaries, paid since
opeaking, distinctly to understand the Noble had just taken place had originated, he observed, the close of 1814 ? lie should endeavour to answer
Lord's meaning. If the Noble Lord were per- that the Address requested 44 an account of the pro- ! this question as wee a., he could. The 'amount of
vaitted to hold information from the House on these gress made by the Congress at Vienna." Of this Extraordinaries during the three months from the
important subjects, in what situation did they stand? progress no Tomei had been made. Why not ? I clear of 1811, after deducting those sums which be-
-The Noble Lord was absent from the country on Lord CASTLEREAGH asked how it was pos. I longed to the ordinary expences of the Army and
confidence. Ile had no instructions. He was to be Bible to make any circumstantial return on the Bills of Credit, amounted to 2,200,0001. The
governed by his own discretion. He was omnipo. subject ? !whole amount of bills drawn, including subsidies to
tent. 46 He would not allow the machine to stand Mr. WHITBREAD.—" Why then did the Noble our Allies, amounted to 4,200,0001. This sum of
still while waiting for an impulse from his own Go- Lord second my motion for the Address ?" 2,200,0001. of Army Extraordinaries included ye-
vertiment." Let the House look at the letter of Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that by the rious sums paid towards winding up the expences of
that day, and see how the Noble Lord expressed ; words of the Address the discretion of' the Crown the Peninsula; and he understood that the rate at
himself. 66 I attach importance to such and such a iwas to be exercised. on the information to be coup which payments on that account had lately been
principle ;" " I conceive the King of Saxony to have ; municated. I made was one million of dollars peremonth, and that
placed himself by his acts in a situation to be fairly I On the motion of Mr. WHITBREAD, the Clerk if this payment should be continued, the whole ex-
sacrificed to the tranquillity of Europe;" " [shall not • read the Address from the Journals. I pence of the Peninsula would be wound up in the
regret making all exaniple of one of theGermanStates;" Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that all the inform. course of' six months. The Right Honourable Gen.
66 I can have to hesitation to the principle of the pro-' ation had been given which could diplomatically and tleman concluded with moving the sum of 3,992,0001.
poled arrangement ;" " I have no objection to confide . constitutionally be afferded. I towards defraying the Army Extraordinaries from
Saxony to the provisional administration of his Prus. ' Mr. WIIIIBit EA D begged the Noble Lord the 21th Dec. 1813, to the 21th Dec. 1814, not pro-
sier' Majesty," &c. &c. and yet, after all this as- , would dissever the two terms, for they had nothing vided for by Parliament.
sumption, and after the lapse of many months, the to do with one another. Mr. TIERNEY asked if the sum of 21 millions
Noble Lord returns re inficia, as far as regarded! And here the conversation dropped. included all the Army Extraordinaries, and if they
that House, having no communication to make to it. I SICILY. were to understand that there was to be no farther
Ile waits until a Member of 'Parliament, having in • Lord CASTLEREAGH, adverting to the notice claim for Army Extraordinaries beyond this 21
vain interrogated him, embodies his questions in a which had been that evening given by a Right Hon. millions ?
motion, to which motion he accedes, and Ile then Gentleman opposite (Mr. Ponsonby) observed that The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
complains of perverting the ordinary course of Par- he should have no difficulty in acceding to it as far he presumed that three millions of the present year
liamentary proceeding. The Noble Lord, he pre. it regarded Genoa, but with respect to Sicily the ; might belong to the expenditure of formeryears.
bunted, would have Perliament do nothing hut vote question became so extensive that it would require Mr. TIERNEY said, it would be necessary then
money. lie expected a continuance of the confi- consideration and selection. !to add to the 21 millions this other sum of' three
deuce of the public after the letter which had that Mr. PON `SONBY replied, that the transactions ' millions. He wished to know the amount of' this
day appeared, which it seemed was a translation of a in Sicily were so interwoven with those which re- : description of debt incurred previous to December,
translation. Ile should like to know in what la,n. spected Genoa, that It was scarcely possible to se- i 1814, not yet paid. Was the monthly sum of one
guage it was originally composed. [Lord Castle. parate them. i million of dollars included in this sum of three mil-
reegh In English:;] To English ! Ile thought After some further consideration it appeared to be , lions ? He was only anxious to know what would
the Noble Lord must himself have been, the tratisla. understood that Mr. Ponsonby would furntsh Lord be the total amount of the eluding up the war.—
tor, for really it was very like his style—it might be Castlereagh with a private communication as to the I The one million of dollars was only for the war in
put by theside of theCicooesecOnimunications.TheNo. extent to which he should require to know the ni- the Peninsula. Had the Right lion. Lientlemati yet
ble Lord declared that he would not be diverted from tire of Lord William Bentitick's instructions me- obtained any estimate of the eepence of the war in
lei course, neither would, be, Mr. W.) be diverted specting Sicily, iu order that the Noble Lord might' America?
from his course. M the.Ntatle Lord would use the determine on the propriety of acceding to, or op- 'flue CHANCELLOR or the EXCHEQUER.
_ _

privileges of the (louse for defence, so he (Mr. W.) posing its productlon.
would use them for offence against those who ap- DECLARATION OF TRr ALLIED Pow eite.
peared to him to misconduct themselves in public si- F Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH gave notice that to-
tuations ; and this the more especially when a mo- morrow (Tuesday) se'rinight, he would submit a mo-
tion was about to be made for the Speaker's leaving tion to the House relative to the late Declaration of
the Chair, for the purpose 'of enabling ttte House, in the Allied Powers.
a Committee of Supply, to vote 40,000,0001. of ; COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Army Extraordinaries, iucluding large sums to Fo- In the Committee of Ways and Means a Resolo-
reign Powers. It was no abuse of the privileges of tion was agreed to, to raise the sum of 2,32d,0001.
Parliament to enquire into public affairs. The No- Irish currency, in Exchequer Bills, for the service
blc Lord said, " wait till the papers are before the of Ireland.—The Report to-morrow.
House." Did he mean to give them ? It happened COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
tut tunately enough that the veil which the Noble The Estimates of the Army Extreordinaries, &c.
Lord was enzious to keep over certain transactions, having been referred to the Committee of Supply,
was sonic how or other removed. This was instanced the House resolved itself into the said Committee.
in the publication of the letter of that day. Atwater ; The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in
celebrated iti,tance was the publication, by the a tone of voice which rendered it impossible to follow
American Government, of the Ne.,ociations which hint with any accuracy, entered into a detailed state.
were at that time pending with Great Britain, to meat of the Army Extreordinaries of the present
which publication was probably owing the termina- year, and a comparison of them with those of the
tion of the war with the United States. There three preceding years. Ile described the amount
would, indeed, he little controul over the exercise and the nature of the bills which had been drawn by
of the power of congregated Monarchs, were it not the Commissary-General, and showed, that although
for the voice of public opinion; and highly, there- their sum appeared large, the Extreordinaries of the
fore, to be desired were all communications by present year did not exceed those of the three pre.
which the pu'slic were informed with respect to the ceding years by more than 600,0001. They had all
proceedings of Governments. The Noble Lord, and grown out of proceedings already made known to
Prince Talleyrand, and Prince Hardenberg, and the Parliament, with the exception of one, which, under
ltlier Princes seemed to treat each other much more more favourable circumstances, would not have been

said he had not yet any account of the winding up of
the war in America. They had always found means
of meeting the demands of the American service by
raising the money as t:ie service required. The
monthly payment of one mil;;on of dollars formed
the largest part of the sum of three millions to which
he had alluded.
Mr. TIPIN EY said all discussion on this sub.iect
was only a waste of time. The total sum now voted
by the Ifoo,e was 21 millions, and of 17 millions of
this the Tteasury already possessed the money. It
was useless to discuss a matter of this kind when
Government had obtained nll they wanted. The
enormous scale
.of the expenditure in the Peninsula
required the investigation of a Committee up stairs.
Such a Committee could alone do justice to this sub.
ject, and see that punishment should fall where it
was due; for he believed in his conscience that great
peculation had been going en in the Commissariat
Department. It was in rain, however, to eula'g
upon these snljects, as he saw no encouragement in
the present temper of the House. He had no inten-
tion of preventing Gentlemen from employing their
time in a more agreeable manner. It was useless to
be talking of a few hundreds to this or that indivi-
dual, when-17 millions were in this way voted with-
out enquiry.
Mr. ALEXANDER BARING thought the ex-
penditure of the Peninsula ought to be made the