The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-05-09 00:00:00

referred to other papers that the House, a few-nights
ago, determined should not be printed, and which,
without such reference, could not be understood.—
They also stated, that the withdrawing this paper
from the table of the House to which the Members
of the Committee had access, and sending it to the
printer's, would cause a delay in the proceedings of
the Committee.

The omtion for printing it was then negatived with-
out a division.

THE STATESMAN.

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he was inclined to think it as favourable as 1 ,-, 'hat when ordering articles to such an enormous amount,
could he obtained. lie agreed with his Hon. Friend that he was only running into expences that would
who spoke last, that th,ngh ne triumphal arches lead to unpleasant discussions, that a great deal mi.tht
were necessary, yet in a public imildin4 of that na- be saved. What occasion was there that his Royal
lure there ought to be a degree of magnificence in its , Highness should send to the upholsterer, the fund-
°momenta Wei-orations. lure man, &c.? No man could suppose that he
Sir J. YORKE said. that while lion. Members could occupy his attention with such frivolous ob-
were diffeling about decorations to new buildings, jets. He denied any wish to interfere with the in-
he must beg to remind then, that there was an old tenor economy of the Royal Household, or to et-
public building in thi, metropolis that was still un- amine, the cooks or turnspits ; but he would ask,
Nese.° re ie E. finished. lle meant Somerset-House, which was left 'was there equal profusion displayed even in the ex-
Sir W. CURTIS presented a Petition from St. in such a state in some part of it as to be a disgrace penditure of the Continental Princes? And after
Martin's-le-Grand, in favour of the Act now petal- to the country. . all, it was impossible to rival foreigners in show;
big for a new Post-Office. 1 Mr. WES CERN objected to the Bill on the there was something in the habits of this country
Mr. SU MN Ell presented a Petition against it. ground of the immense expence, which, under our which did not admit of it; but still about the British
Mr. BENNEI'T presented a Petition from several present financial difficulties, the country was ill able ' Court, as it once existed, there was a chastened and
debtors in the King's Bench. lie stated that the to bear. He was particularly adverse to the appli- dignified splendour which excited more real respect
complaint of the Petitioaers was the great hardships cation of the Orphans' Fund towards the erection of than glitter or show could produce. The House surely
they endured in consequence of no person being ap- this building, on the same grounds as the Hon. Gen. would not sanction that enormous and merciless ex-
pointed to fill the office of Judge of the Insolvent tleman who first objected to the second reading (Mr. , penditure which the papers disclosed. While the
Debtors' Courtein the room of the late Mr. Serjeant Gordon). people felt that they paid liberally for supporting
Pal ner ; that many- of them had• been confined much Mr. C. LONG supported the Bill. 'the dignity of the CrOwn, they did expect that it
longer thin the law required, and than they ought to Mr. WESTERN explained. ' should show something like sympathy for them in
have been; and also that they were Put to the additional ! Mr. BANK ES admitted that• the present Post- their present •burthened state. He concluded with
expellee, •and a further delay of their deliberation, by ' Office was not large enough, though it cstutinued to moving, that the Committee be empowered to send
being obliged to deliver fresh notices. The Petition be conducted with a dispatch that was truly admirable. for and examine Mr: Marsh; of the Lord Chamber-
was ordered lo lie on the table. ' He was, notwithstanding all he had heard and read lain's Office.
Lord A. HAMILTON presented Petitions from on the business, clearly of opinion that it would Lord CASTLEREAGH regarded the present mo-
the City of Glasgow, and from Hamilton and other be better the business should stand over for the lion as an appeal from the judgment pronounced by
places, pra) ing, for a repeal of the Corti Laws.—Or. ; present. . , the House on a former eight, uncalled for by any
dered to lie on the table. I Mr. BUTTERWORTH was clearly of opinion thing that had passed in the Committee, and an un-
NEW POST-MI.IM I that the new plan of a Post-Office was the best and necessary departure from that respectful mode of
Sir J. SHAW moved the Order of the. Day for the ' most economical that could be adopted. The busi- proceeding that had always been held towards the
second reading of the Post-Office Bill. Be begged ness of the Post-Office had long been and still was , Crown. The Noble Lord. then entered into a va.
the attention of the House to a few observations he on the increase, and the repairs of the old building rimy of statments respecting the espenditire in the•
wished to make, though he observed the Report oft cost Government for many years past upwards of Lord Chamberlain's department. He contended-thit
the Committee was so clear that it was almost need- 60001. annually. He was convinced that a new Of. ; the Committee, in 1812, had allowed an addition of
less. Four several plans had been submitted to the fice was absolutely necessary, and he thought St. 24,0001. to the estimate of .1804, as not being
Comniittee/ each of which differed from the other in Martin's-le-Grand the best situation that could be founded on any practical examination. There was
the amount of the expence. That which they had obtained for it. ian obvious explanation of the great expenditure of
preferred would amouut: to the sum of 244,1001. Mr. IL SUMNER said he had not abandoned any the last three quarters. The expence incurred by
which, though higher than the others, yet it combined of his former opinions ; he was not convinced that the the visit of the Sovereigns was 132,0001.• deducting
I
so Many advantages, that the House would, by the expences would not be far greater tban ehe estlriate; this from the exceeding in the expence of these three
slightest examination of the Report, see the reason i but he was perfectly convinced that even if a neces- quarters, and there would be about 90,0001. of ee-
ls which had determined the Committee to decide in its sity could be proved for this new building, this was traordinary expenditure. Of this there was between
favour.. , .In the course of last Session some Hon. not the time to propose it. He insisted on his right 15 and 20,0001. for the establishment of the Princess,
Members, who did think favourable of the measure, to differ with the Committee, and still remainetiof Charlotte. There were other charges, which re-'
had .stated that the expense would be from 7 to opinion that the old Office; with the additional duced the whole exceeding to 60,0001. which he was !
Btg,/,0001. Had that opinion been found to' be erne ground that could be obtained for the purpose, if prepared to admit was the extraordinary expenditure
real, he owned that in the present state of the carried to the extent of 40.000 square feet, which of these three quarters. He would also admit, that '
finances of the country he for one would not have could• be easily done : such addition would be made in this department there was an exceeding in. the
agreed to it; but it would be found by the Report at far less expence than the new plan. • ' whole of three years, of from 80 to 90,0001. But
that the sum he had above stated was accounted a fair After some observations from Sir WM. CURTIS, the Right Honourable Gentleman aggravated this by 1
estimate: end as the Committee were convinced of and others, the House divided. adding to it the 100,0001. which the Prince Regent
the necessity of anew building in a more convenient . Ayes - - . 149
,
N ues
. 70
received for outfit. But the House should recollect
situation, for the purpose of more advantageously Majority 79 that while his Royal Highness acted as restricted
transacting the business of this very important branch CIVIL LIST EXPENCES. Regent, he never received any thing from Parliament
of the revenue, he-had felt it his duty to 'concur in On the re-opening of the Gallery, whatever, thoegh additional expence was necessarily
the Report. lie concluded by moving that the Bill Mr. TIERNEY was observing, that the lateness entailed upon him. When unrestricted, that his
be now read a second time. of the hour would make his observations short. lie creditors, as Prince of Wales, might not suffer, he
Mr. GORDON objected to the motion, on the never entertained strong hopes of any ip,;ootebrsek4 appropriated one-half of, his income as Prince of
be
ground that the public ought not to called on to done by a Committee with circuensoribed ..-- Wales, about 60,0001. a year, to their payment. I
pay such a sum of money without a strong case The great object of such a Committee should be to Neither was the 100,0001. granted by way of outfit
being made out of the necessity of building such a ascertain how the expenditure of the:Civil List was applied to the equipment of his Royal Highness, but I
Pest-Office at all. On that head there had been no attended to—how to prevent theevils of excess, and applied to the liquidation of his debt [Hear, hear!]; ,
qiestiou 'whatever asked by the last Committee, but to settle what were the rearnable bounds of the exe by which means the 0,0001. a year devoted to the!
they had merely referred to 'he Report cif the former penditure of the Kneel Family. In the Coalmine* parterot of debt, would be a year and astral( sooner 1
Committee, and P*Pll in that there was, in his opi. ihe had succeeded in some instances, but had been at the disposal of the public. The -Prince Regent's i
;Dion, no cause made out which would justify the 1 unseccessful in others, which were important., It equipment, the plate, for instance, could not be,
house in giving countenance to the Bill. The Post. had always struck him that there was a want of that made in a day ; and instead of. being defrayed
Office had.been.carried on for many years in tie pre. necessary vigilance and superintendance over the ex- eat of the 100,0001., ite was thrown into .the
sent situation in which it stood, with ever) advan. penditure of the Civil List, which alone could pro. Lord Chamberlain's department. His statement
tage to the public. It was true, Mr. Freeling, when vent the occurrence of such heavy arrears. Oa this was, that the whole exceeding of the three years was'
before the Committee, bad stated, that they had f point lie had before said so much that he did' not 90,0001.; now if you set against that the 100,0001. ;
wanted a new Post-Office for a long timee but they I then desire to detain the House upon it; bet the for outfit, applied to the payment of debt, and by.i
cold not prevail with the City of London to agree to excess had now risen to an alarming extent. He which the 60,0001. per annum would be sooner re-
it. before. He could not but be a little surprised was satisfied that Gentlemen most see the necessity tiered, you would have upon the wholes-a saving of
that the City should all at once come forward and of hewing oral testimony on these subjects, and not 10,0001. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said, why
join their aid to the Government in saddling the pub. merely papers; and he was sure, in that view of the did not the Prince Regent use the plate of the Sow.-
1k with an enormous expellee at the moment wheu subject, they most be inclined to vote with him,—lin • reign ; but how could he strip his father and his fa-
the burdens under which they laboured were so great. the list of expenditure the department he should par- ; mily of their plate ? Of the 39,0001. expended on
He objected also to the reason assigned by the City ticularly allude to was that of the Lord Chamber- furniture, it should be recollected that 17,0001. was
for now agreeing to this measure, because great part lain, which he should do without any invidious view. for furnishing what was called the cottage at Wind-
of the money was to be taken from the Orphans' The charge of furniture for.Carlton-(louse alone sor. A great deal of ridicule had been thrown on
Fund. He denied that the City had a right to apply during two years and three-quarters was 160,00(1., the name, most unfairly. It might be called a cot-
that Fund to this particular purpose, and said the exclusively of the 100,0001. voted on the motion of (age, because it was thatched; but the fact was,
consequence would be a continuance of the tax on Mr. Perceval for an out-fit. This made 260.0001.: that though not a residence for a •Monarch, it was a i
coals and wines imported into the port of London' Mr. Perceval stated that the extra expence was for ! very comfortable one for a family; and the only one
for three years longer than it ought to continue, plate and other ornamental matters. What had be. ; which the Prince could snake use of when he visited
which would he la) ing an additional burden on the come of the King's plate ?—The upholstery expences • Windsor. The public had been put to no additional
inhabitants of the Cite of WeitmillSter and the parts were last year 49,0001. Or moulu was charged 29001. expence for the residence of the Prince Regent.—
adjacent to London, for tlue benefit and advantage of china and glass 12,0001., linen-drapery, &c. an ; Had he, when exercising the power of the Sovereign,
the more distant parts of the empire. lie sifted the enormous sum; the silversmith and the wardrobe oc. 1 and not wishing to reside in a great capital, establish-
evidence of Mr. Hacker and other witnesses who had casioned charges to an immense amount; the former ied himself at Kensington or Hampton Court, it
been examined, and observed that they were all in no leas than 130,0001. in three years. There was a I would have cost the country a great deal of money to
some degree belonging to the Post-Office, and when delicacy due to the Royal Family, but a faithful' prepare either of these palaces. It was most unjust
one part of their evidence was compared with another, Parliament could not better discharge its duty than •to compare the Civil List of England with the even-
it appeared to him to be little better than &delusion. by guarding against unnecessary expenditure, which ' 'diture of Continental Princes. A million a year was'
He adverted to that part of the Report which had was indeed ueequalled in Europe For the expences of voted by the French Legislature to the King 'of
stated that the new building should be devoid of or- the foreign Sovereigns there was 50,0001. The average 1 France and his family, merely for supporting the
element, from which he differed as much as he did to of expellee for plate and jewels was 23,0001. a year.' splendour of the Crown, while one half of our Civil
the adoption of the measure at all. If we were to To whom did that plate betong e—Behelieved many' List was appropriated to very different purposes.--.,
have new buildings on which 234,0001. was to be ex. of the items ought to be charged individually to the; Concealment of accounts was not the policy of Mi.
pended, he thought, that as a public edifice, it ought Prince Itegent,who hada privy purseofebove7o,oool. ! nisters, but they would resist the system•of bringing,
to have the advantage of ornaments and deeorations. ityear. to •1312, Mr. Marsh gave in a satisfactoey ' all the interior details of the palace before the pub.
It was true he would not wish to see the entrance re- , account respecting the mode in which furniture was ' lic,by means of oral examination. The Noble.Loid
sembling.a triumphal arch, but he would have the : provided for the palaces. . Noweet elistinotinte was, had to state, however, that-for the purpose of watds-
ornanetnts such as to distinguish a public building of made between the palaces occupied by the King, or . ing the expenditure of the Civil List, a warrant hadt
this t ;lid from the gloom of a prison, or the melan- Prince Regent, and the other Royal Houses ; so I recently passed the Privy Seal, directing that esti.
cboly appearance of an hospital. His main objection, that there was no security against the expences of 1 mates of every expenditure should be given in to a
however, was to the very great expense. at a period those occupied. Mr. Batikes's Bill, in fact, became I responsible officer, whose approbation and order.
when the country was 50 little able to bear it, and; as a dead letter. These circumstances of expence would i should be essential to every tradesman for the pay.,
such beshoold divide the House on the second reading throw some light on the question on which so much 'meta of his accounts. He was surprised that the,
ofehe Bill, had been said respecting the ()dcers of the Household I Right Hon. Gentleman should have asserted that I
'Mr. HA M MERSLEY said he .had carefully ex. being independent of the Ministers. He then ad- 'there was no coutrool, when this warrant was one of 1
avnOsed, with the other Members of the Committee, verted to the numerous allowances to Ambassador*. the Papers before the Committee.--[Mr, Tierney
seeeleneerous and great inconveniences attendant-on He believed that instead of the usual allowance of said he had seen no such warranqe-The Noble
• the olte Post-Office. Great numbers of the valuable plate, some of the Ambassadors took money.-- Lord, on consulting his colleagues, found it had noel
servants of the ('rovcsrnment, employed in tarrying , There was a Mr. William Rill, an Envoy, whose yet been produced, but added, it should be laid be-
en this truly beneficial branch of the revenue, were name he had never heard, who had 37001. for plate; fore the Committee to-morrow.--[ifenr, hear !J—,
abut up in close rooms, dirty, and covered with and there was a Right lion. Gentleman, the Am. The Right Hon. Gentleman would, therefore, find
smoke, so that their health must be in danger one bassador to Lisbon, who received 35001. for plate; the system he recommended Row acted upon.
eisould almost think from suffocation. It had beau and so. much for Obtet, together with his 14,0001. Lord YARMOUTH said, that before his Royal
obliged to be enlarged from time to time, and was aof salary ;so that for one year lie would make a• Highness was made Regent, his quantity of plate
rims' Of old' haulses taken in and added at different very good thin,t' of it.—[A—[Alaugh.]—When Lord was extremely small ; and he wee persuaded that the
periods,
periedv, which rendered the communication of one Cathcart went Ambessodor to Petersburgh, Meow House would not have wished to see his Royal High.
office- with another extremely difficult, and eery often derstoo4 be did not lake the plate, but 44001: la, sees reduced to the necessity of biting plate from all
apparently dangerous to persons under the necessity . stead of it. Upon the whole, he thought he had the silversmiths of Loudon. The King had leht hii
ef possingeeniutste from one to another. The par- made out a sufficient case. ' His 'object' wale to put plate to different branches of the Royal Family, and
'eager, alts,. were so narrow and ill eentrivede that, the contrail of "he Household expenditure in the it was necessary that his Royet Highness, when he
is he hadlimm'informed, there were eeveral hundreds hands of responsible peesone. No men was more became Regent, altpuld make an addition to his
there at et thikeie the course of the day, it .wasatrer willing that the Crown should eeeidy becoming spleu. stela. 4 4. : , .
&Wog -Amy should come off witheot broketertieetitiL doer, but it shotikl:bieregniated ley etrici economy. Mr. WYNNE was unable to express his alto-
.
rith respect to the new Post-Office, he thank,* ;--He belieeed that if , the Prince Regent had some uishment at tbat part. of the Noble Lord's speech,
necessity of it, Alas:apparent -P andas'to its situation, *honest 'deism about him, wbo ehoul4.remiud him' wherein he claimed a Merit for the misapplication of