The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-09-08 00:00:00

THE QUEEN.

.I..ll'..ll.IN*()FllCle. Tills D. 41, Two o'Clocr.
!Rol .41: OF 1.01 1)5. Ferny, Seer. S.
(TW EN TI ETII DAT.)
priveN ere read as usual, and the Peers were called
„I. • The defaulter was Lord Alvanley.
The Earl of NARY presented a petition from the in-
of a country town, the name of which we
Lcild nut hear, complaining of their sufferings under
weight of the pour rates, no less than MOM persons
!etching paroellial relief out of a population of not
„ore ott,ettO. The
ipetit ion prayed relief generally,
,re that the statements n it might for that purpose fir
..;%ored to the consideration of a Committee. Ills Lord-
. ?sin% that for the present lie sl Id merely move
.1.1 the petition be read, and It was read accordingly,
01 ordered to lie on the table.
Counsel were then called in.
hlr Brougham was then informed by the Lord Claw
oiler that the House etperted him to say what he la-
kneel to do is respect of the Queen's defence.
Mr. ilitorGaso answered that it was his intention to
ore( ed in the defence forthwith.
The Limo CHIN( ELIA,* enquired, whether by that
expressieo the Learned Colineel meant that he nas pre-
pared to go through the whole defence or not.
hit. 61IANI replied. that if he should be obliged
to call evideoce (as to which he had not yet decided), it
world be necessary for him to apply to the House to
postpone the remainder of the defence until the attend-
Imre of the witnes%es could be ensured.
The Earl of LA I:DEZDA LE said, lie was sure that the
}loose would feel disposed to indulge the Queen's Conn-
eelit any request consistent with the rules of justice.
Lord Eastityz said, lie should trouble their Lordships
eiO. a very few remarks. He submitted that the House
slc,u:.l comply wit', the wish of the Queue: Counsel to
perm:: the defence to be opened, and postpone the re-
mainder of the defence as they desired. lie was con.
sir.ied that every Noble lord who had been accustomed
to the business of the Courts of Law, well knew that
the Counsel far a defendant often intended iu the outset
of the defence to call evidence; but percei% ing that his
address had made an impression on the Court. lie found
it unnecessary to do so. lilies' the prosecutor begun
his cau'e, he wnst go throitell pith it without post-
fitment, and the defendant was in general hound
to proceed in his defence. The reason was 010•
Coes. The defendant Hai informed specifically of
the nature of the charge, with time, place and theme,.
mance, and the Hamel of the persons who would he pro.
duced to support it. Anil after all it was in the power
of the Court to grant a new trial, but in this case there
could be no new trial. If their Lordships load given the
scusel in this case, a list of the witnesses, and a specifics-
tea of the times and places as she had desired, there
'Gold have been no occasion for the present discussion ;
but their Lordships, in their wisdom. had thought pro-
per to to do so, and thereupon the present request was
perfectly reasonable. lie begged they would see the si-
tuation In which they were now placed. Let them look
at the effect of what their Lordshipe had done. The evi-
dence was not only on their Lordships minds. hut it had
gone to the whole world. The Earl of Liverpool bad.
is the course of yestenlav, done hiniselfJiononr in saying
boil forbid that a preiudice should' remain Nom a case
!holm after, all noglit be completely disproved. Hut
haul did not forbid this. It was impossible that some
impression should not remain on the mind. It was the
walotess of human nature, and could be neither altered
air controuletl. His Lordship next adverted to the sum-
ming up of the Solicitor-timieral of yesterday, and eons-
plainesi of the Dimmer in which lie had made that summing
up. Ile had said the facts could not be combatted, and this
prejadoine statement would go with the evidence before
alt the world, nithont comment, and without contradic-
tion. The Nolen'! Counsel had said, we will not suffer
your Lordships even to go home with this evidence upon
your minds without making our comments upon it. If
then, it would be wrong, after the summing up,
for their Lordships to go home without hearing
the Quern's Counsel's comment upon the evidence.
upon %slat ground could they suffer an adjournment,
withouthearing the general opening of the detente? Why
should lie canoe then be divided into two ports, it should
not ; but so it appeared to be now, and this he again and
again would say, was caused by their Lordships refu-
sal to give the list of witnesses and the specification
applied for by the Queen. However, at all events, the
theen's Counsel desired nothing unreasonable. He
merely desired to be heard and to retain, the right of
postponing the evidence which he might or might not
afterwards feel disposed tosolduce. let their Lordships,
he would say, carry home with them the answer as well
as the charro.; he, for one, was afraid to rest for three
months after having heard the evidence and the speech
of the Solicitor•lleneral of yesterday without hearing
the comments cat the Queens Counsel upon that speech.
The Earl of LA VDEEDA LE said, it appeared to him that
the question was whether the Counsel should proceed at
once to the defence, or should be permitted to niake a
speech and then postpone the remainder of his case.
pon all principle, lie considered that the adjournment
should toke place now, or not at all, and that their Lord-
ships ,coui.l not yield to the request of the Queen's
Counsel without committing an act of gross injustice.
He admitted that some inconvenience would attend the
evidence going forth to the world, but then the cross-
examination would also go forth to the world, and lie
hoped and believed, that no person had been so unjust
as to make op his mind on the subject of the accusation,
either one way or the other. He considered that the
ohjecti.ms against the mode sought by the Queen's
Counsel were much stronger than any arguments
which (wild possibly be brought in favour of it.
It appeared to Lim that if the course desired were per-
mitted. the Queen's Counsel might state their case with-
out the rossibility of proving it, and no one be be-
lieved %twilit deny that that would be productive of the
same prejudice as that which appeared to be dreaded,—
(Hear, hear.)—Their Lordships, he thou ht, would do
very wrong to permit this proceeding. He thought so,
sotwithstanding the high character of the Queen's Coon-
oil. 'show he believed to be as honourable men as any in
existence. His Noble Friend had talked of the courts be-
low; if the Qiiern'sCounsel knew bow to open their case
they certainly most be informed of the proofs they were
is possession of to support it. His . Lordship cool udea
h 7 exhorting the House mot to eager the defence to be
divided.

The Loan enatecit.hon now rale and observed,
that if he ever would wish to decline exerting his
rigid Official duties it wu at the present moment.
II indeed Was painful .to bias to pronounce an opinion
spinet that of his Noble and Learned !Friend (Erskine).
hat he conceived that that Hope oast net upon soave
Phaciple in this case, *Mob they amid apply to the
geseral principles °filmdom. it was piths* tree that
their Lordships wash! commit great !ajustics if they
inferred from what land been °tercel aa evidence, that
the charges had been eatablished.—(Hear, hear. hear.)t
Du the vtbcr hand, is 'mold be sad almost

ST,

wicked, to suppose that such of their Lordship+ as had
nut been in the habit of attending Courts of Justice,
and had nut acquired legal habits, could go away witle•
out souse impression which the evidence could not have
failed to make upon them. Ile was vet tinder the ne- :
cessity of dissenting from Isis Noble and Learned
Frien, for whom he load and always should have the
digest respect. His Lordship concluded by saying, that
aid gh he well knew every confidence was to be placed
in the Learned Counsel at the liar of the House, and lie
sincerely hoped they never would see any others there,
yet their Lordships ought, in his opinion. act on general
principles, and nut leave a precedent, of which others,
tf they are so disposed, might take advantage.
Lord 1;11E1' then rose. it was painful to bins, to be ob-
liged to differ from the Noble Lord who had just sat
down. Hut lie felt that he %ttilliii hr unworthy of the
place whirls he always hoped to hold in their latrilships
opinions, if cress his oppositi to the Noble Loyd, whose
opiniiiii must have so much ttttt re weight than his, he
did nut boldly come forts aril and mate his %pediments
on a case of ...1101 import:lllre. With one of the observa II
-
, hulls of the Noble Lord lie most fully concurred, that
this was a rase of great difficulty. Truly. indeed, might
it be called so, and it was not without considerable
difficulty lie could come to any couclusion at all,
and ultimately, lie must hake a choice of gvibt.—
These diliiritities he ascrilocil tuniaiment ally amt
be said it with respect to the erroncoiss &dal tttt , (nada,
in opposition to his Noble and Leal m.. 1 Friend, lawa
Erskine) their Lordships had made, namely. withholding
from the l'iiniesel for the Queen. all :hose advantages.
say all those rie,lits, to %Illicit tlo.y %sere entitled, u
knowledge of the witnesses that are to be adduced,
and the nature of the crimes nith is laid, she is
charged. Put the Noble anti Learned Lord on the
Woolsack has stated, that floe difficulties do not arise
Goo this, and, that 16%141 if this us re grautetl, this
proilivition might have been made by the Counsel: he.
(Lord terry) tout,' not conceive on what e routed% this
assertion nag mask. For if Colmarl were put in Loa-
session of all the advantages they hail a right to,
nothing could possibly occur to justify them to make
that demand, which in ordinary cases would have bees;
considered ;absurd, and wisest he should beg leave to
remove a misapprehension w Islets seemed to hate
arisen. To him it appeared there was a material
difference betiveen their slopping after the Counsel
has made his opening %perch and stopping after he has
proceeded with part of the evidence. 'these he thought
were two 'holm.' prepositions. It was trite, there might
br a great disaeliatetage in letting the pttiverfal speech
which they must expect from the Queen's Attorney.
General go forth to the world. without any reply, or
without produeing the evidence in support of his state-
ment. Their Lordahips did but justice to the Contend
in saving they might trust 'to their honour. He
thouglt, from the character of the Me, tlitt it would
be unjust to presume, that any Counsel would abuse
a privilege oratited to him, *by making an undue
impression. lint, from the knowledge he hail of tbr
Learned I...lintel concerned for the Queen. lie knew
they were itii•sealile s-f stating any thing which
they had not g l oil reason to suppose avoid he primed by
the evidence. lint lie verbally agreed with the Noble.
Lord sin the Wooka..k, that they sl Id he guided by
general principles. is idiom acy reg irtl to
''hat great difficulties must at i.e. he was ready to admit,
but look to the difficulties that .ire to he enconeetered
on the other side. host hisses fret must he the crimp.-
; examination. When wittiesse, are broeirlet up. of %shorn,
they were perfet fly ignorant, of whose 114111 e, and flea-
meters fliev could hair had no pretiotia I,iiito ledge, un-
til the moment they were produced at the liar. But it is
not by cross-eaanimatiou only they can be refuted, be-
cause a skilful and eipii ped shoes+ may defeat threw*
areuratr trelliHrt •
.

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