The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-02-25 00:00:00

THE POLICE-SICK FUND

After provisions for lighting, &c., the police clauses were
read. In relation to 223, which makes provision for the relief
of constables in case of sickness, it was stated, that in lieu of
the regulation which required every man in the force to be-
long to a sick club, it was intended to take a certain portion
of his wages for the purpose of establishing a fund.
Mr. PARKER spoke generally against the sick club, and
said it was proposed to take 6d. per week from their wages,
and thereby to raise a fund.

Mr:THORNHILL opposed the proposition on the ground
that the men were paid little enough as it was, and that a
man could not think himself justly used if he contributed to
such a fund for two years and were then discharged, and dc-•
Prived of the power of deriving any benefit from a fund
which he had contributed to raise. The measure would be
making the good and steady man pay for the idle and the
skulker, who would affect sickness for the sake of a week's
leisure. When the dock and town police forces were joined
there were 33 men in the dock police receiving money from
the sick fund, and in one week after, under the new system,
the number was reduced to three.
Mr. HODGSON opposed Mr. Parker's proposition on simi-
lar grounds to those advanced by Mr. Thornhill, and Mr.
Procter supported it.
On the suggestion of the Town-clerk, it was agreed that
this subject should be referred back to the committee.
Clauses 224 to 243 were considered consecutively.
Mr. COOPER drew attention to the large quantites of gun-
powder kept on some premises in Liverpool.
Mr. ASPINALL suggested that the same power be given to
officers to search the premises of marine-store dealers as to
search vessels. He thought it would be well if marine-store
dealers were licensed, and punished with loss of license on
misbehaviour.

It was agreed that the Town-clerk should insert a clause
to that effect.

OPENING PUBLIC HOUSES ON THE SABBATH

Clause 244 was for consideration and direction of the
council the following from the Metropolitan Police Acts :

" And be it enacted, that no licensed victualler or other per-
son shall open his house within the borough, for the sale of
wines, spirits, beer, or other fermented or distilled liquors,
on Sundays, Christmas-day, and Good Friday, before the
hour of one in the afternoon, provided that nothing herein
contained shall extend to prevent refreshment to travellers."
Mr. PROCTOR moved that the above clause be withdrawn.
His motion was in accordance with a former recommenda-
tion of the Watch Committee. His reason for moving this
was, that it ought to be a general bill to act all over the
country. All the information that could be obtained from
London showed that the clause worked badly, and he thought
it incumbent on them to avoid the monstrous absurdity of
having one system on one side of the street, and another sys-
tem at the other.
Mr. ASPINALL seconded the motion.

Mr. HODGSON said he rose with very great regret to op-
pose many of his friends in the question which was then be-
fore the council. He thought the arguments in favour of the
clause stood in as much force as they did before, when so
many of them avowed themselves desirous of seeing it
adopted ; and he was of opinion, that they stood now in such
a relation to the government, that they could carry it if they
Persevered. One of the arguments used against its introduc-
tion into their local act was, that it ought to be a general
measure. As regarded its partial operation, they might as
well apply such an argument to their police or any other
thing. They might as well aver that they ought not to have
any police here because they would not touch the crime
which existed beyond their suburbs, or because they would
drive delinquents to other places. He considered all such
arguments inconclusive. It was incumbent on them to do
what good they could ; and if they could not reform other
districts, at least to set them the example which they ought
to follow. He would, perhaps, wait for a general law if he
Saw any reason to believe that it would be passed. He cal-
led upon them to proceed at once and apply to parliament
for the clause, on the ground that they all agreed that it was
desirable. He thought his friends would find themselves in
an awkward position if the suspicion were once raised that
they were drawing back from the high ground which they
ought to take from the fear of losing political influence. He
feared they might be suspected of yielding to expediency on
Political grounds. He would not do so ; and if they were
forsaking the high ground of principle, and endeavouring to
stand upon expediency, the sooner they came down the bet-
ter, for come down they assuredly would. He trusted that
Ao fear of losing the support of a section of the publicans
would induce them to shrink from an important duty, for he
was very sure that all the respectable publicans must be in
favour of a clause which would prevent men from drinking
during the first hours of the Sabbath. It was the best clause
of the bill. He should be glad if the clause restricted the
publicans from opening their houses at all on the Sabbath.
klowever, as it was it was likely to be productive of great

good, and it should have his hearty support. He would nave
that the clause should remain as it was.
Mr. AIKIN seconded the amendment. He said it was most
extraordinary to argue, that if they excluded evil from their
own doors, it would rise up elsewhere. He trusted, how-
ever, that they would do their utmost to exclude evil from
Liverpool, let it rise up where it would. Mi. Aikin made
some allusions to the acts of brewers and spirit-merchants,
and spoke of a gentleman, a friend of his, who was a magis-
trate, connected with the spirit business, who forebore to go
on the bench or interfere in any way where licenses or pub-
licans were concerned. He thought it would be discreet in
parties connected with those businesses, to abstain from in-
terfering in affairs of this nature. He thought if one brewer
and spirit-merchant after another were sent on the Watch
Committee it might have an effect—(the conclusion of the
sentence was lost.) Mr. Aikin proceeded to expatiate on the
evils which accrue from permitting public-houses to be open
on Sunday mornings, and the disgusting scenes which were
the consequence. He expressed his decided opinion that the
respectable class of publicans had no hand in such proceed-
ings, and would be glad to see them done away with.
Mr. PARKER said, the merchants set themselves up and
talked about the brewers and spirit-dealers as if they did not
desecrate the Sabbath. He would yield to no man on earth

in respect for the Sabbath. He was surprised to hear mer-
chants talk this way when it is well-known that they selected
the Sunday abwe all other days for their ships to put to sea.
Lord Sandon had declared, in his letter to the Town-clerk,

that the clause was not likely to pass, and the Town-clerk
would inform them, as he had stated in his presence, that
Lord Sandon stood so high and was on such terms with the
government, that what he expressed was just the same as if
the government themselves had said it. _

Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—No, no. The Town-clerk did
not say any thing of the kind.
Mr. PARKER.—He said something very like it then. The
publicans would be very glad if it were a general measure.
Mr. Parker proceeded to say that the clause did not work
well in London, for no law that could be framed would ever
stop drunkeness, and if spirits were sold at every shop in the
town there would be no increase of drunkeness. In conclu-
sion, Mr. Parker called upon the Town-clerk to read Lord
Sandon's letter. _

Mr. ISAAC HoLams, in allusion to what had fallen from
Mr. Aikin, said there could not be favouritism in the Watch
Committee, for the informations were all laid by the Head
Committee.

The TOWN-CLERK said he had not received any letter from
Lord Sandon. lie had written on the 15th to Lord Sandon,
asking his opinion on the measure, and at the same time to
their parliamentary agents and his lordship's reply was em-
bodied in theirs. The Towh-clerk read the following copy of
his letter to Lord Sandon

" Town-hall, &c., Feb. 15, 1842

"My Lord,—l am directed by our Watch Com.mittee to
request the favonr of your lordship's opinion on the publi-
can's clause, which 1 enclose, as part of our, general improve-
ment bill, similar to that of last session. flverything appears
to depend on how government or parliament would receive
this clause in a local bill. It is in the metropolitan police
code ; but it may be answered, that comprises an extensive
and peculiar district. OUr parliamentary' agents will wait
upon your lordship on this subject, and the committee will,
I fully expect, meet on Friday and SatUrday for a report to
the council. The clause is considered a very desirable mea-
sure. &c., &c.

(Signed) BICHD. RADCLIFFE."
The letter to Messrs. Burke and Venables, bearing the
same date, was as follows :

" Dear Sirs,—.l ou will be aware that the publicans' clause
(taken from the metropolitan police act, 2 and 3 Vic. s. 42,)
at present stands N 2-14 in our general improvement bill.
The question is whether it would be more proper legislation
in our private bill, or in a public bill brought forward by go-
vernment on petition and very general application from Li-
verpool ? lam requested by our Watch Committee to de-
sire, that you will consult with Lord Sandon on this subject,
and his lordship might perhaps have the kindness to confer
at the home office. The clause is considered with us a very
desirable measure ; but the question is, is it proper for lacal
legislation ? In favour of the affirmative is the fact, that it is
in the metropolitan police code, though it may be said that
that code prevails over an extensive and peculiar district.
" It would of course not be prudent in us to raise an oppo-
sition to our bill, and thereby damage other clauses, as well
as cause cunsiderable expense, if there were not a reasonable
prospect of our succeeding. Everythihg depends on how go-
vernment would treat it. _

" I sli;ilcibe obliged by your sentiments by return, and
by anything further by Friday's post, as at meetings on Fri-
day and Saturday we must decide, at least so far as reporting
to the council.

(Signed) " RICRD. RADCLIFFE."
Under date 16th February, Messrs. Burke and Venables
thus reply :
Dear Sir,—The 24th clause of your proposed improvement
bill being already in the metropolitan police act, we do not
apprehend that there could be much objection to making it
applicable -to so large a town as Liverpool. .At the same
time we are of opinion that that, as well as other police
clauses in your bill, might very properly form part of a general
act, and we think it not at all unlikely that Lord Shaftesbury
will make the same observation on the bill when he sees it.
The question is, however, will the government bring in such
a bill, or are you, who are desirous of having these provisions
of the metropolitan police act made applicable to Liverpool,
to be debarred from the endeavour to introduce them into
your improvement bill. because they might properly form
part of a public act ? We think not, and we do not appre-
hend that your whole bill would be placed in jeopardy by the
introduction of the clauses in the first instance, even suppos-
ing them ultimately to be deemed objectionable ; because, if
they were so, they might be struck out in committee.
We purpose conferring with Lord Sandon to-day on the
subject, and will write you further when we have seen him.
(Signed) BURKE and VENABLES.
The following is the next letter from Messrs. Burke and
Venables, dated 17th February.
Dear Sir,—We were unfortunately unable to meet with
Lord Sandon before post time yesterday, but this morning
we bad an interview with his lordship, at his residence, at
which Mr. Birkett, of your town, was accidentally present.
Tile latter gentleman stated that the clause referred to in
your letter would be extremely objectionable, as it would not
extend to the suburbs of the borough, and consequently
would be evaded, and Lord Sandon concurred in this view.
It appeared to us that the object of your letter was to
ascertain how far it would be prudent or practicable to in-
troduce the clause into a private bill, and whether it would
not be considered that it should properly form part of a public
act, and that the expediency or inexpediency of the clause
ally pwrt-of your inquiry,
We, therefore, have taken an opportunity of seeing Lord
Sandon again this afternoon, and he concurs with us in the
view that the clause may, if you please, be introduced in the
bill without endangering the other provisions of it ; but he is
strongly of opinion, that the clause would be so objectionable
in itself, as being insufficient for the purposes for which it is
intended, that it would be highly inexpedient to introduce it
in the bill, and would only involve unnecessary opposition
and expense. His lordship thinks, also, that the provision
would more properly form part of a public act than a private
one. (Signed) BURKE and VENABLES.
R. Radcliffe, Esq.

The TOWN-CLERK said, in allusion to what had fallen
from Mr. Parker, that he did not say anything which would
warrant any inference that he meant to imply that the opinion
of Lord Sandon was the opinion of government. The effect
of the Town-clerk's saying, as explained by him, was, that
the opinion of Lord Sandon, as member for this borough
and as a supporter of the government, should have very peat
weight in their deliberations. The opinion of any individual
standing so high as Lord Sandon, as a supporter of the go-
vernment, would be equally regarded by parties conducting
business for the place 'which such individual represented.
Mr. EVANS expressed his gratification at the course taken
by Mr. Hodgson. In allusion to what had fallen from Mr.
Parker, he said there was no parallel between the case of a
ship moving out of port for a continuous voyage and a man
going into a tavern to drink and ruin his pocket, his mind,
and his family. There was, perhaps, no more harm in a ship
moving out of port on the Sabbath, than there was in her
continuing to press forward to her destination on many suc-
ceeding Sabbaths.
Mr. THORNHILL spoke of the measure as exceedingly de-
sirable. He ridiculed the idea of persons going to drink at
the suburbs. They were chiefly turned from taverns in Li-
verpool at night, and it was not likely they would resort to
the country to drink after midnight.
Mr. Earle, M r. Cooper, Mr. Sands, and Mr. Jordan avowed
their intention of supporting the clause.
The council divided, when there appeared—
For the clause—Messrs. Shaw. Shand, Hodgson, Thorn-
hill, Sands, J. Holmes, Bolton, Aikin, Bright; Priestley,
Yates, Robinson, Cooper, Gladstone, Lloyd, G. H. Law-
rence, Jordan, Platt, A. Smith, Mather, Harbord, Bulley,
Freme, Evans, Earle, Moon, Boughton, (Alderman) Nicol,
Molineux, and the Mayor.
Against the clause—Messrs. Isaac Holmes, Preston, As-
pinall, Wood, Procter, Kilshaw, and R. Jones.
For the clause, 30 ; against it, 7. Majority, 23.
Absent—Messrs. Houghton, (Councillor) Sandbach, Ed-
wards, Copeland, Barton, Blundell, H. Holmes, Mellor,
Rae, Toulmin, J. Lawrence, H. Lawrence, Birkett, Rigby,
Bushell, Parker, J. Smith, T. Holt, Harvey, Barclay, Grif-
fith, Turner, Chilton, Moore, and Crooke.
The council adjouined at a few minutes past three o'clock
till eleven the following morning.