The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-02-11 00:00:00

glavglilidatwert
Witit7.4o

Kr. PHILLIPS gams notice that Ors Tburedey
Ilidc-Petinall'iilitei Ist pem.
embed yesterday from Manchester. should be mifeered
to a separate Committee —(llear, hear!)
Mr. BENNETT presented a Petitioefloot /leer.
pool for Reform. •
Ltid on the table.,
A Metairie home the noose of Leeds eiteeemeed
that they had agreed to lb. see=ser.
NCI Clauses is tbe Irish Goal Jeri • • t
• 1411. • • .
Mr. 'Alderman WOOD gavelled" est sta Wod•
1!•04111, the 16th wop W.mittiktameisat r
.ailibe primes in the Metropolis. •
STATF. olltALlt IN SCOTLAND.
Lord A. HAM ILTON. rose to melee leis proteleed
emotion relative to the. &stet Trials lelieolland, end
proceeded as f0110w5,.... •1 „. „.• • • •
"Ie bringing before the anise the Sotto* of whirls
I have given notice; I feet, tied bop. the Haase wilt
twice, with use in feeling. tbat:ehe subject is wee of
as great importance- es over wee
.submitted to the
consideration of Parliement, or en mbielt any (dew''
demon was ever called tryconsidee, (ogle, slid pro.
bounce his eobiassedopiaion. [Hear, heart] 1 tamed
onto), reamed the WWl* of the ivapostesse of the
subject, when I 'tate, that .it refer,. to tbe.conded
of theme Law Othcore in hcotlamd le the management
of a grave 'albite frosetetioe Is the High Court of
*landau, . Ii Awhile" to a case of this'll's' Itinfint•
Old* to tb•PeoPio. The eleetioin ret,thi.italeve of
the subject, inmy,. perhaps. stream a prejediceageinstl
it chess. illrodoced boorch a pontos:1104 :11111. .it
any be*, being eamelrhat of 10.111•016ene it
ought to hi: introduced by a professiosal titan, .
for one, should hue bees sorry to see *it In the
hands of a professional person, lett the gemology
shock) be narrowed into grounds merely tectisirtal
and professional.—Liker, heat'!]-4 consider, Orel
caserlo'be lather
.one of plain voientee.eolot. sod of
com Mon justice, and though it might Imeiclidteeletts
'better bends, *I Kest that my feeble advoraey will
pot riepiita it://f the justice to which it be eminently
entitled. Iltope no that score it.lllill seffer no de.
fect. I beg at thil.butset to eepliip,moet onegui.
totally, that ply object. is net to call do tho Iloosate-1
do that which is *Adopt. or ems dog—teieserfere
in the proceedings of Courts of jostle.; those are'
whet I know the lions* almestinserishly. refuses to
touch. I biers to state, that I mean toeall epos
you to do no such thing; but I do esker youto.talte
cogniaapco of a groselojustice committed on the sub•
otantiel justice of the tertiary, in a case which, to
my opinion, involves. something near a charge of
hebornaiioe of perjuty on the part of the Lew 01B-
e'er. of the Cro w n.—[ Mar, hear!]--The case to
which I allude is a simple one, gad -does Dot branch.
' out into the whole subjrst of the late State Trials in
Scotland, though my motion will be for a record of•
these proceedings ; end in calling for it I shall have
little or nothing to submit sere what will -be found
in that record. I shall call upon she Law OnCen
of the Crown for their own record, and I skullcap.
Act there on their own stvWenl*au. them face of
that record. This subject esturally lead; me to a
short retrospect of what pater) in this Howse last
Session moth, state of beeline). wag them seitl by
the Lord keeeseir, this tite popektieloof,Glargow,
in pankeier' were so contitialaste& dist 11.1100611061
sedition bed been traced to 3 se 400.000 101•811.'
and that4beygegre'ltegerd together 'by a &operate
oath, which he, though
.it was rather emeilmi foci'
fetroduced ti appal the Hoods. I de set anew 16
say, that at that period there wore not WASPS sinew
to loos or disedecteil promo asetempletiog -public
dittorbasires bet we mono( avoid lookios at the
contrast feoliehof between the Lore Advocate's
statement, aid
rbikanlisetptent attempt to eahstantiate
this sedition by lap" proof.— Lagge, bour, hearn—
Froat this it appeared, that his ewer/hoot wee most
etaggerated, if nog slanderous. $f in disturbed share
any one duty more Atm ;mother eseelese on a pub.
lic prosecutor, It 14 that thecemsamd chaff- have jos.
Lice donoupon them by a fair, jest, and impartial
trial. My complelat is. that the peados in Scot.
lend had not a fair, just,. earl impertiel trial..
[Pear, hears Aver :]—ln my. pretest proceeding;-
I beg, however, to disclaim all cowers' as to the fact
of the guilt or itiOnCeOCO of the accused—either is
alike indifferent in my view of the ease. Whether
the party be guilty or not, honest or not, he is equal-
ly entitled Irian open and impartial trial.—[Year,
hear complain that the Lord Advocate, Wore
the trial, did deleil so reaggerated a .statement of the
facts he was afterwards to try, at to entail an in•
toence and bias on thi country et large, and on the
minds of ell men who were likely to become Jitters
on the occasion. It it impossible tint to complain of
such a proceeding, or of that system which Govern-
ment, .for the last leer mbaths pail, have established,
of introducing characters, into private societies and
convivial meetings, to eke •itst criminal charges upbeat
particular individuals.—[dear, hear!)—This has, in
my mind, led to incalculable mischief, erpl produced,
by slander and osisrepretentatioa, a total error es to
shtt feelings and. opinions of a great majority of the
country.--[Meer, /seer Ij—When I set out with
%toting, that I did not hesitate to say that suborns.
Lion of perjury. bad been-committed ie Scotlaistl,
was aware that I bad a right to be called upon to
support my assertion by proof, and. in adducing this
proof, I should be eatremely sorry if. any nerd
should escape me that may be deemed personally
41 WNW', to the leer Niters connected with the caw
I assure them that t Mean to speak of their peb
acts, end net of.their personal characters.—[Near,'
hear !]—To them heal have no other 110/4 of bead',
lity theta they which toy man has a right .to node
against Public °lacers; and I think I shell be us..
(tidy dealt by, If adeaatege shall be taken of arty
casual espression I may use, instead of nieetinig•
me on fair and opeo grounds. It is neceisery
that I shall state, for the information of Gentle.
men not accurately versed. In the forms of Scotch
law, and proceedings of trials in Scotland,
she mode adopted respecting witwesses, test it should
be supposed that when I speak• of subornation of;
perjury, I mean to insinuate that the Lew OISCPI6 of.,
the Crown in Scotland had eedeavoured to iiirsoence
or influenced any witness to glue perjured evidence;
—I do lint mean to cast any such insiwontioit epeu
them. The practice in Scotland is very different
from that of England, in the progress of criminal
trials—for in Scotland • they are commenced by put.
ling on the record the deposition of the witnesses

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.
{`earned gelation Poi Ip, 6 Vas any beer tonight "we.
or instructed pre what to herdirettlitiriehtli' By
:it -la-net mmesselr •lostrotri alike 'whiten W hat:to
goy, either tree•Mr, hter,7 -bet to tity int thing -stall.
.411esr, heae-l)—if tor-were -dealreid to-ear guy
thing, the ,Coort amouhifil.lerpproireedksay Me was
disqlsolifiod from being. 'mailmen in the mess; it id,
shergiemp. guy, rhea the shrived 'brae ht forward.
also -Craws woo disquelified, sod Isthat I now
Thethird question is, "!'Have you in any
rely reeeised a reward, or been promised a reward, to.
give evidence oss.thio trio, ?I-J-111,4 hipiln' It is 'meant',
•wot evidence truss or false, hut soy evidence at all—
[Hear !]-and if soy such promise-is hertd.not, he
Is disqfialified. 1 wow proceed to the evidence of.
feted to the Ceort, whiCh, f rowels& makes out
my case. On the trial of Andrew' Si*Kittley, the.
Crown produced John Campbell ass Witness. The
Counsel for the prisoner, I beg here to state, 'tarot,
a preliminary objection, by saying that they had
hod no access to the pencil. The Court said, that
they Arvid have applied for access to the Lonl Ad-
amant, when the loiter -seidi ' It wet • my duty to
prevent tutees' to'th panel for fear he should he
tampered svith.'—(Losid-Crics of hear! from the
Opposition lienches.)—Noa, what I COM pia'', arts,
that the eeidence of this John Campbell, from the
*meet he watin possession of the haw Officers of
ilarreioter up to the time of the fruit, eli.ibited one
militated system of gross and palpable tampering.
...eiLousi cries of hear, hear!)—The Lord 'Vivo.
Otte- wild allow no tampering en the side of the
panel, hot the -reverse was the case with the' wit.
Ness for- the Crown,' who was tampered with to
ezress.--[Near!)—Tho- three quesilevs. were, Is
used), put to the witnesa,Campbell, when he case
to give his evidence; and no his answer to the third
1 ground my present motirsit. 1,, his' answer to the
third he said, that'll/hen taken to Glasgow jail, he
was qoestioneti.io the presence of' the jailer, the
Sheri{,. tha frocorator Piscat, and the Solicitor.'
General of the town. • One said to him, • John,
you don't knew that I know somuch about poi es'
I do. I kurtosis. men who *ill swear you took the'
oath. You'll •do no good by 'concealing the fact ;
hot if you don't persist, in your denial, and take
the other way, you'll do yourself good.' Salmon,
he- admitted, further said to that the Lord
Advocate was there in Glasgow, smut would be under.
any obligation to the witness if be spoke out. I I
believe this Is a mistake 'respecting the Lore Ad: I
vocate's being then in Glasgow—he must here bait
confounded Or the Advecute.Depeta. After this
period the WHIM, was removed in Edinburgh, and
then a sew merle commenced. Mr. Home Dunn.
asond.thois visited him, strd told him his barns was
on the list of the seditious persons, and that now was
tge time for him to determine whether he would be
i witness or not. What wig this but holding net an
ledudrlment le hies to become a witness.—[Hear!]
drrOsmpbell replied to this applitotiow, that if he
,torsted wituesa, he could sower he able to go bark
and live at Glaagow ; when Mr. H. •Drotionood said,
that he hid thought, of a plan for him, and would
utile to Lord Sidmoluth to get him Into the Excise
in a diferent part of the empire. Campbell, it seems,
die wire thew decide ; bet was not this holding oat a
rowovel, and actually specifying that reward ?-
1 (Dann!) -At' a subseyrieut visit Mr. Drummond
Wed to •If yogi give such information es will
please • the Lord Advoceve (mitt, please the Lord
Advocate), you will neither be:tried yourself, nor
called as a witness.' War sorts a man fit to be after.
wards called as a witness.?.. I am not enabled to say
whither Mr. H. Drummond acted with the privity of
the Lord Advocate throughout the w hole of this on.
just and unfair tampering ; but they have acted, or
at least appear to base acted, so vouch in concert,
that I am enable to proceed se ifhout connecting them
both together in the business. Perhaps the Lord
Advocate would say, • Tree, Mr. 11. Drummond did
this—tree, he tampered with the witness; bat what
have Ito do with that? 1 knew nothing about it,
nor ever authorised such a proceeding.' To this I.
can only answer, that in such an event, my observe:
lions must fall upon the guilty person. At another
interview Mr. 11. Drummond said to him, I
don't know what to do with you—l wish to do all
'1 cats to save you.' Again—' This is the last time,
Campbell, I can speak to you; you must now de-
faming, whether you will he a 'witness or tint.'--
Campbell then said, ' Have yen' written to lord Sidtnouth -
Mr. 11. Drummond replied. • No, I have Nuts yrri know you
would not decide. and that prevented me -yois rejected:-
Campbell them mid. this, be should like to leave the country.
but that being a mechanic. he 'mew the Ilsw would not allow
trim in emigrate. Mr. 11. Drommosid, In reply to this, mid,
,‘ Thew i. no question but you will get a passport and money
to carry you of ' Campbell then agreed to he a witness. if his
wife was also yr • sided fur. finsurrhiug was. theo_dom about
marking a pound note, and sending it to her. Was this tamper- •
lag, or was it not and how . mod this man be a mime* and
take the purgation oaths without ettoiraiiting perjury ?-[Hear,
hear 1)-Sir Was. Ray, the iligh Sherif also came to examine
•Camppell, and heard whet rerctieved relative to the prong* lif
She-passpiwt. The Solicitor-lieneral's Clark wrote down the
terms, ls a sort of security to the witness that they were to be
eventually complied with. Sir Wm. Ray Aiwa interfered. and
said. • I wool sign this paper-as an (Accra the Crown' it is ,
my duty to see justice June.'-[ Loud rriei of Hear. bear 13-He
Hies assisted Campbell that if be signed the payer, he (Sir Wit-
ham) would not ant.ner fur it for, a great dealt for if, when
called, be took the Purgation Oath. be would be guilty of per--
Ivry. Ttae Whole of the other parties present were lenity to mime
Abe paper, bet the interpositims of the Sherif Mooched Mule the
brad. Sir, is my ease. I have little lofty but whittles record
of the trial cootaim, and I rail fm the record so prom -my mei
It must be obvious* that though the paper was ea signed. it
was still a constituted agreement pearl the witoem. and dims'.
lifted him ow the trial. 1 must also state, that wheo k was
foiled the paper could not be signed. Mr. H. Drammeed said
tis Campbell, You.k maw whether you eau be a wittier or sat
-you know what you lame to expect-ma you rely oo it with*
out its being set down in writing r This was saytag. is ashW'
words. trust us. and every thing shill be done foe You. (omp]
bell Men said he was willing t Mr. Drummual rejoiced. • Cal
I rely on you t' the furore said* Yes.'-' Weil, 111e10.• I will
FAY ) au as Geutletneal"lle Proeurator•Fiseal sad Clerk
had the isamuire tiptoed, and the Sherif-Depute observed to
1,1 Campbell. that he had bluer go back to his loom and leave the
,N potion to among. fur itself. It world appear also. that Camp.
Mil wrote to Sir. 11. Drummond for ritorr &ad (rooters. mod
moray. 'llieshreer and trow.ers were Peet to biol. bet he was
told he was mot to raper[ mosey sadistic Int trial was over.-
Was this or was it nut a promise t-Dlear !)-,Campbell ioniser
deposed. that the Sherif-Depute told him his life was in danger.
He admitted that he din not believe this, shoegb.be eertatalg
disliked guiag back to dlargow amoia. • -
'• I bare sow, I trust..stated raimsgh ss show, that a promise
of reward was held net to Campbell- for his evidence.-[ Hear.
bear 1)-That from the time he was at first sent tojt,l, tonic

- - .
or rj:-
.1. lippa,;- hams 71* boattian • foe -twodesisoing the
"wader retie Law Mierisfetlesitiand. Govensioem
.base .astsv.avassed theof ,apiee-mod .istforosercv-,
-Mita w (far It is adedited its esiderice) Mist they fatmeuted
the Mischief they weeelatended se prevent. Spies and infonseet
were, f sore lark very aware, the pest mad haste orsociety. lame-
characters denooaced as they thought proper any isdi Ideal is
sbeloty t he arnmarrested by +swivel wassail from tile y
•of state, carried to aseeset,-perbspe distant prime. Woodernisob,
cireosistances. sad ktagistemes moistened wile Mahe pevlbramisce
of theirjlety. and evidence concocted in ossamidalosisismasider
to this. I ask what.chooce .eas any isdividual More ofvelidr.
trial, or nay thing like a fair trial for his lite ?-{Heve. hear!)
Tat Wan outrage spew mod a yin mina of, ever• partite one
venerated Constitution . ant an latractiou of is mom &level
privilege.-Ellear,.hei:rl3-1 set oat with sayingolutt lbersold
prier? suborn:aloe dperkary -1 can describe Abele proceedings
by au other natne.-CHrties heart)-1( she Pond we're convict-
ed on Ike evidence at Campbell, awl the semeoce carried int&
ode I, l will ii• k,siv °ski net the enovietionaaanitseen sureeted by
a tampered a Poem. pmessred. In sive •tegrerable eviiessee (fun
agreeable was the wort wed) for. the law Olkers of the"
('rasa. who should .base semi justice dune the prisoner
(Hear, hear !) -If the man had lowa executed, as was.iateuthil
: its Ike event of the Sot convict:en. aid that it nftersnatits stant?.
oat sm. con•iction_was °taunted •firoats the ageneyor kee.
Drummond. iu what a sitaatjult,pasoki ant the Lord Aditrocime
f feel Itiat.ell? All this Imo. .basittes. 'MOO d have been liter
seer..., of Campbell had .kept., his comma. Good Nod
can any thing ~e so gross as. lb is proceedian 2 Con any shintf•lte
so gray a. In out a crianio,sl at the has, and for a hat tie for en.
de.tvottrine to overturn nor loos, mid bring into costeMpt Yhe
Government and the Constitution of the country.' 711tror
Who brought the laws into contempt Wavit fiadrew
ley.. or the Lan °dicers of the Crownl-(Hear, KstrtlV--Witalt
assist to be the character and mistiest of tie "Lati,.'Odicers Of the
Crown ?-ntsght they not .10 !Ili:Will and sa.tain the dignity of
the Justice of the bind ? Hut, its this else, did they aid-rather
violate its sanctity and purity quite as each as Inky, 'and
snore palpably if they had fully prayed the extras of his ether?
" I have only. one nr IRO obv, valises to snake am the evi-
dence at the trial. • 1 ask for its recent, sad far this reams-,
bemuse the Lord Advocate casinot surely serum to comply whir
my motion. for it only asks fur tim; mulch i. of thr.r awe moo-
facture. The evidecce is theirs, and theirs only, front be-
ginning to end. Indeed, I cannot anticipate any objeetiost or
defence that can be set ap on this oreasioo I sad unless sack ens
be made, What objection can, there, be to ibe mutton? The
charge of tempering. is openly made wilt bit Sir William Ray.
who might. if what Campbell stated was -trn'rue. have been
called up to contradict him. 1 mama conehole without read-
ing no extract front Home, oo the Purgation Oaths. He says.
• As to the reward or /ratable of reward, If the presenter. or
any body for him, tempts a wittiest bs a bribe, ar is nay other
manner. this shall exclude hiss, fens lasing examined, eves
a. heiher the witness shelf yield to of Mist theapplicalloa.' He
further says, • If sr Magistrate skull io far forget his deity, and
mistake his power. as- to interfere in any sea see with a wit-
nen, he is guilty of a wrong that exposes him tea an indictable
offence ' I have now, Sir, done, and the to thank the Haase
fur the patient attention it Motives, me. My motion is..
" That there be laid before llotegt copies elm* Parts of
the Book. and Records of the High Court of issliciary_la Pee.
land, as relate to the several Libels and Charges hildagilast
Andrew Vs'Kinley, on she ISM ofJoly, ISl7,tosethee *Wilde
Verdict and the Audios thereof."
The Noble Lord sat dews amid laid and nostiased Wet Of
Hear I

The LORD ADVOCATE rose end void, be wee
clad to take the earliest opportunity of replying' to
the chkigirs which were brought semen him, founded
on the late trials in Scotland; but be should first, re-
ply to the complaint 'urged agairist him for tin part
he took lest Session of Flritliamentin discliniogio the
House the linger whicit esisted in Scotland from
the designs Of the seditious. It was. said Iby the
Noble Lord, that .the infottnatien he fbertrve; 404
the oath of the covispiraterV, which he reed, .way' re
communication ".oeneeessery •ibti Uncalled for ;"
bet he would maintain, in opposition to. the..Ntible
I Lord that it weitvetellsary and called forfrifone, as
he believed it was ; and hi should not hart done his
duty as a Member of that Horne if he had not com-
municated P.-4liter, hear,- heni• !)--41,?jitif
layered that point, he should new piLACes4 .to the
question more immediately lieforeillen,',and would
state the circumstances of the cast: Thi"friA.,lll
no our indictment for adininiiteriogLoola icor 'oaths to
several hoOdred persons, some of whose qaerei were
set forth in the record.- • Thr-verilict 44"riov i 016.
rem." [(hear, freer, hear !]—lot it was necemary he
I should **plaint') the flues. the difftrenei liftweed
this verdict end that of "not guil(y." ito was
speih-
ing in the hearing of several Gentlemeo who ,knew
the practice of the COll/11 tiCollll9d, and the sense
in which their verdicts here to be taken : those Gen-
tlemen could therefore rOrrea Min if le was wrong.
—Now for instance,' if the rfideoce upon .e trial
was not sufficient to convict at-tonne* to est..
blished forms, but at the same time exhibited a corpus
dckcli against the prisoner, so that theirs was.no Moral ,
doubt of his guilt, though lire •legal proof was not
sufficient to convict him :.the ierdit in such a psi
would be " not process."' Tbli was the fact with Ire;
gird to the prisoner in the can before the: House;
and be was told by •the Judge tb'remernber, that the
verdict was not 66 not goilty," but 66 not proven ;"
which verdict, be (the I.ord'Abirt4ke) did not hesi-
tate to•say, that the aiih hid been' administered tea
hoodreds of the people in Glargonihoigh the proof
had not been present in a form eiontly idmissiblee;—
[Crier of Ilcar. hear ! from. Me Irposite benches.]
—Before he went into the detail of use transactiors,
he moat 941 the Noble Lord that' n bad been nide-
formed with regard to what pissed arbor CsosPbell
wait first brought forward as a rallies& lit isrl the
authority of the shOrt-hand notes of a very accurate
reporter, who was about to publish the trial, eiletell
soot the record, for lurrtug;lfiat."-wliWr plissed wee
to the effect that certain persclie girt Abiwsld be ed•.
nutted to sear tire pritener io liisictrofinittaeol, *act'
that if his agent wished MS IntertieWl he !es told he
might lipply to the Court foi tbit pompon, bet his
application would be opposed. Viler, wee not one
word about the fear of -tampering as 11,111043011 for
shutting cretins agent iron the pifsOrritr." The Lord
Advocate of Scotland was not only peblic prosecutor
like the Attorney-General of EoglSuds bet• he was
also a Police Magistrate, which cirCemstance would
sufficiently esplain the part be took is this transac-
tion before the trial. The reason of that office unit-
log the functions which were divided' in England
arose from its being a •disiinct pert of the kingdom
under a separate law, and the Lend Advocile is not
only. applied to for advice its cases of public tumult,
or oe questions of police; bet is also expected to
give assistence personally, sheiid it be neccessary.—
This was known to Georlemen connected with that
part of the kingdom, and had Plaited' ever since the
union of the two. Crowns. • On the contrary,
police bratiob of this doable duty of the Lard Advo-
cate, was•in England itelforaled by the Home Secre-
tary of State. In the next place, be had the recoil-
'wit ion of the Gra ndlury proceedings, which was stole:
times done by the Procurator General when it or- or-

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