The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-01-11 00:00:00

LIVERPOOL INFIRMARY

The annual meeting of the trustees and friends of the Li-
verpool Infirmary was held yesterday, in the board room of
the institution, Brownlow-street, for the purpose of receiv-
ing a statement of the treasurer's accounts, the appointment
of the annual officers, and the transaction of the usual busi-
ness appertaining to such a meeting. Not more than from
twelve to fifteen gentlemen were present. Edward Gibbon,
Esq., chairman of the committee, took the chair.
The proceedings commenced with the offering of prayer,
by the Rev. R. Davies, chaplain to the institution.
Mr. E. W. JACKSON, the treasurer, read a short sum-
mary of the accounts for the year just terminated. The re-
ceipts consisted of £3053 17s. in subscriptions, in addition
to which £lO are in arrear, making the total subscriptions
£3093 17s. ; on account of the Lunatic Hospital, £llll 55.,
and on general account, £1954 Us 9d. The payments were
for the Infirmary, £4275 14s. Id. ; the Asylum, £B6B 12s.
3d.; the Lock Hospital, £623 Os. lid., making £5767 7s.
3d., leaving a balance of £352 9s. 6d., of which £l3O 15s.

4d., had heen disbursed, leaving £221 14s. 2d. cssh in hand.
The only sums he had to receive were the half-yearly divi-
dend of a London and Birmingham railway bond, £6O ; bones
manure, &c., £2O ; and the arrears of subscriptions (men-
tioned above), 130 ; making the total cash in hand £3ll
I4s. 2d. The sums to pay were, to the bank, £llB 13s. 7d. ;
and the estimated bills were, to the Infirmary, £lOOO ; the
Asylum, £270; and the Lock Hospital, £2lO ; making
£159 13s. 7d. ; so that he estimated there would he owing

to the bank on the Ist February next, the sum of £1331 19,
3d. (Hear, hear.) lie would next read a statement of the
comparative receipt.; of 1840 and 1841 :

1-.. '-'

t 7 OcD

CORRESPONDENCE,

MR. M‘NEILE'S ANSWER

DR. YOUENS

SIR,—I have just received a copy of your " Remarks" on
a speech of mine, delivered at a public meeting in this town
on the 20th of December last. That speech was brief and
supplemental, and I rejoice in the favourable opportunity
afforded by your publication to call attention more extensively
to the whole statement.

In the speech on which yon comment, reference was made,
as you remark, to an occasion when Live men (one Italian
and four Irishmen) protested against the novelties of Roman.-
ism, and conformed to the ancient Church Catholic in
England.

Also, reference was made to an address which I delivered
on that occasion, and which I proposed partially to repeat,
but only partially, as it had appeared in print only three days
before. It was reported with substantial, though not exactly
with verbal, accuracy, in the Liverpool Standard of the 17th
of December. It refers, at the outset, to an important dis-
tinction, carefully kept in view to the end. It is thus re-
ported :

" In offering an historical statement, a distinction must be borne in
mind from the very outset, from the want of which, as appears to me,
much confusion hangs apon the supposed history of this great question
The distinction I refer to is between the history of the public authura•
tati re documents of the church, and the history of individuals leach-
ing in the church."

This distinction is of the utmost moment. The error of
an individual as such, whether priest or layman, is not fairly
chargeable upon the church to which that individual belongs,
particularly if the recognised standards of his church be
wholly free from such error. But when the error is adopted
by authority, and by authority imposed upon others, as
necessary to their salvation ; then it may, I, should railer
say it must, in all fairness, be regarded as part of the system.
Errors of a very flagrant description arose among members
of the Christian church, and were propagated with much
zeal, even in the apostles' days; but the church, as a body,
was not chargeable with those errors. The inspired apostles
reproved them, and condemned the false teachers of them as
" deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apos-
tles of Christ; and no marvel," adds St. Paul, " for Satan
himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore, it
is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the
ministers of righteousness ; whose end shall be according to
their works." (2 Cor. xi. 13-15.)
Having made this distinction, I proceed as reported thus:—

" I invite your attention first to a very brief sketch of the history o
the public authoritative documents of the church. This will throw
light upon the question of antiquity which is so much discussed. The
basis of all Christian faith we believe to be the holy scriptures ; but I
must advance from that at once, in the present instance, to consider
the authorised documents of the primitive church. These are in
number, three ; they are brief, they are explicit—the Apostles creed,
the Nicene creed, and the Athanasian creed. The date of the apostles
creed is not known; it is found to have existed from a very early period.
The date of the Nicene creed is from the council of Nice, in the year
321 ; and until then there does not, appear to have been any public
authoritative Catholic document except the apostle's creed. The date of
the Athanasian creed is nearly the same _as that of the Nicene creed.
These three compose the faith, the saving faith, of the Christian church ;
they contain the " trinity in unity, the unity in trinity, neither con-
founding the persons nor dividing the substance;" they contain the in.
carnation, the life, death, resurrection, ascension, and second coming
of our Lord Jesus Christ; the person and agency in the prophets, as
well as in the Christian church, of the Holy Ghost; the existence of a
body distinguishable from all bodies, and called by the frame of the
church ; the communion existing among the members of that church;
the•fact of forgiveness of sins in that church ; the belief of the resurrec-
tion of the flesh ; and the anticipation of eternal life after death. This
was the Catholic faith. Observe, I am not now speaking of the opini-
ons that individuals held. The distinction I made atthe outset keeps,
or is intended to keep, those out of sight for the present. I sp€ak

of the public authoritative Catholic documents of the church—
they were these three, and none other. These three were received by
public assemblies of the church AS containing the faith. The second
general council was held atConstantinople in the year 381 ; and these
three creeds, or rather the Nicene creed, as it is comprehensive and
sufficient, were received by that council as the faith of the church. The
third general council was held at Ephesus in the year 431. In this
council the decision of the church as an aggregate body went still fur-
ther. It not only recommended the Nicene creed as the faith of the
Christian church, but it rejected all attempts at substituting anything
else, or adding anything to it. The decree of the council of Nice con-
cerning the faith of the church at that time is most impot taut. It is
transcribed in this pamphlet, and I will read it. Having read it, be
continued—Murk the determination of this holy synod, that if any
person should propose, should offer, should profess auy other form of
creed than that which was agreed upon by the council of Nice, the
persons so doing, if they a ere clergy, should be degraded, and if they
were laymen, should be anathematised. So stood the faith of the
Christian church to the year 431 ; the Nicene creed, and the Nicene
creed alone, was the recognised symbol of the Catholic faith The
decree of this council seemed to set the matter at rest for many
centuries. No attempt was made for centuries to interfere with,
to add to, or diminish from, the Nicene creed. When the coun-
cil of Trent met in the sixteenth century, they, too, recognised the
Nicene creed as the faith of the church. During all their sittings,
whatever matters they may have discussed, they recognised the Nicene
creed as the Catholic faith. It was not till thy conclusion of the
sittings of that council that any other form of faith was proposed;
no one had dared to do it; the decree of the council of Ephesus
was against it; and until the close of the sittings of the council of
Trent, no one prestimed to do it. Who, then, was it that had first
presumed to do it Who was it that first propounded another form of
faith, to be received as Catholic faith without which no one should be
saved ? It was not a layman, it was not a common clergyman, it was
not merely a bishop, nor even a cardinal only—it was a Pope himself!
Pope Pius IV., who was the reigning pontiff at the time the council
of Trent closed their sitting, commanded, (and they yeilded,) to add, as
the Catholic faith, a uew, a totally new creed, consisting of twelve
articles which, whatever individuals may:have said about them, had
never till that hour been propounded as the Catholic faith. Till that
time the Nicene creed, with its companions the Apostles' creed and the
Athanasian creed, were fhe only authenticated Catholic documents of
the church. Now my brethren, with this brief sketch of history as
regards the public documents of the church, look at our present position.
For the last 300 years there has been the old creed and the new creed.
The old one originating with the apostles, confirmed at Nice, guarded
at Ephesus, continued for centuries till Trent—and continued till now.
We hold the old creed still— open your prayer-books and there you
have it—the Apostles creed, the Nicene creed, the Athanasian creed—
and we utterly reject, in compliance with the decree of the Council of
Ephesus, any attempt to propound a new creed different from that which
was approved by the Council of is ice. Along with this for the last 300
years, thers is a new creed, the creed of Pope Pius IV. Our creed was
1500 years old before his creed was propounded. The members of the
Romish church adhere to his creed, and they are contending for a creed
which is but 300 years old as a public document. We protest against
it as au innovation upon the ancient apostolical creed, and we have
stood in au attitude of protesting for the last 300 years—protesting
against novelties, protesting against innovations. Now as regards the
public documents of the church, the authorized, the authoritative,
Catholic documents, this sketch of history is undeniable ; and see where
it places us now; see where it places our friends who have just
renounced it. It will be a consolation to them if they understand it;
it will be a consolation to them to know that they are not forsaking
Catholic antiquity, to know that they are not giving up the old faith,
that they are in no wise giving up the old creed When they take the
Church of England prayer-book in their hands, they will find the true
Catholic faith. They have professed faith before you all in the Apostle's
creed. They will find also the Nicene creed, and indeed all that the
church ruled as her faith for fifteen huudred years. They will not find
the creed of Pope Pius IV. there: they will not find that. What is it,
then, that they are leaving behind them? They are leaving behind
them the novelies of the sixteenth century, and they are cleaving
afresh to the antiquities of apostolic truth. lam persuaded that this
will be a satisfaction to their hearts, and I hope it will throw light upon
the subject, in this general view of it, to all your minds. With regard
to this view I must say to them in the langnage of Jeremiah of old—
"Stand ye in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths where is the
good way and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for you souls."

Here I must supply what the reporter omitted, and tran-
scribe the decree of the Council of Ephesus :
" These things having been rend, the holy synod decreed, that it
should be lawful for no one to profess, to write, or to compose any other
form of faith than that defined by the holy fathers, who, with the Holy
Ghost, had been assembled at Nice.

" But those who shall dare to compose, or to profess, or to offer, any
other form of faith to those wishing to be converted to the acknowledg-
ment of the truth, whether from Paganism or from Judaism, or from
any sort of heresy ; that these if they were bishops or clergymen, that
the bishops should be deposed from their episcopacy, and the clergy from
their clerical office ; but that if they were laymen, they should be sub-
jected to an anathema." Mansi. Vol. iii. p. 1362.
In this decree, neither the Apostle's Creed nor the Atha-
nasian Creed are referred to. The creed defined by the holy
fathers assembled at Nice was comprehensive of all. The
Athanasian Creed, though more amplified, in a strain of
scholastic controversy excluding and condemning all forms
of heresy, yet contains no truth but what is distinctly stated
in the Nicene Creed.

Our readers will observe that the Council of Ephesus re-
cognise the Nicene Creed as defined by the holy fathers as-
sembled at Nice, and limit the authorised standard of the
Catholic Christian faith to this symbol.

This is perfectly intelligible, whatever brief additions may
have been made to it at a period subsequent to the Nicene
assembly.
As we have it now, it was recognised as the Catholic faith,
and sufficient to express the same, by the Council of Ephe-
sus. This you do not deny.
You say that " in the third general council, which was held
at Ephesus in 431,
prohibiting any other profession of faith to be required from
converts in future, except the Nicene Creed, as amplified of
course by the previous Council of Constantinople." Re-
marks, c., p. 13.
Here you state an important truth, in which I am happy
to observe you entirely agree with me, viz., that the Council
of Ephesus prohibited the profession of any other faith to be
required from converts in future, except the Nicene Creed.
Against this prohibition, Pope Pius IV., and all of you
who agree with him, have very flagrantly transgressed : fir
he introduced, and you all require, as necessary to salvat in,
a profession of faith, containing a quantity of new matter,
never once alluded to by the holy fathers assembled at Nice.
Even the Council of Trent resisted the innovation, but, by
a subtle contrivance, the Pope carried it. _ _

This new matter contains what we take the liberty of call-
ing the novelties of Romanism, as contrasted with the ancient
creed of the Catholic Christian Church. This new matter is
the cause of all our controversy. For the information of
such of our readers as are not in the habit of studying this
subject, I shall here transcribe this new matter;—