The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-05-09 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN

IRISH FISHERIES.
Mr. PEEL gave notice of his intention to move on
Wednesday neat fora Committee of the whole House,
to take into consideratiou the various Laws respect.
lag the Fisheries in Ireland.
PRIVILEGE.
Mr..WYNN expressed a desire to submit a mo-
tion respecting Mr. Ferguson, a prisoner in New-
gate, for an undue interference in Elections.
The CHANCELLOR of. the EXCHEQUER
interposed and put it to the House, whether the sub-
ject should not be postponed until the Members were
in possession of the minutes of evidence.
Lord A. HAMILTON said, he held in his hands
a Petition from Mr. Ferguson, praying for his libera-
tion, which he had intended to present in the event
of his Honourable Friend's (Mr. Wynn) motion
being carried.
Mr. WYNN presented the Report of Evidence,
and there the subject dropped.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER the House was ordered, at its rising,
to adjourn till Wednesday.
EDUCATION. •
Mr. BROUGHAM said he must trespassi, for a
short time, on the attention of the /louse, in con-
formity with the wishes of the Committee on Cheri-
table Institutions for Education. A considerable I
delay bad certainly occurred, but he could not lament'
it, as it had served to procure more an, pie information,
from which the Committee were at first precluded
by their limited instructions. The result of evidence
and enquiry was, that there were much greater
means provided for the Education of the lower
classes by the various modes of charity, than had
been generally believed, taking all the modes together,
either by endowments, bequests, or voluntary con-
tributions. Yet, under all the circumstances, they
were at present quite inadequate to the desired ob-
jects. The Committee had looked at two views of
the subject—first, as to the means of Education in
towns and cities; and secondly, as to the means in
MEd{ villages and country parishes; and he thought
the House might see that teey had got a clue to guide
them in tie progress of their enquiries. The Com.
trotter, had found that generally in large towns and
cities the means of Education were amply supplied,
independent of the more ancient institutions. In all
cases as to large towns, it had been found that so-
cieties were not wanting which were supported by
the opulent and liberal, who did not come forward
zealously with their money merely, but contributed
also what many judged more than money, their time,
their labours, and their persorial exertions. The
rircumstance could not be too highly praised as it
concerted the character of the People of England.--
It Lad been particularly observable during the last
five or six years, that in every considerable town in
England, the spirit for educating the poorer classes
had been excited and spread. It gave rise to reflec-
tions on matters comfortable to the poor, and ere.
llitable to the rich. In every place where there was
a population of 10,000 souls, there was generally
more than one society for the purpose, affording
• • means greater than could have been expected a few
years ago. The object of Parliament he conceived
ought to be only to aid their efforts. He wished to
press on the attention of the House, that there might
arise great danger in interfering much where the
People themselves were well disposed to further this
good work. Considerable funds, in very many
cases of a sort of permanent nature, had been pro.
vided by annual subscriptions. If Parliament voted
much its aid of the object, it might and would, he
believed, tend to relax the exertions of the private so-
cieties; and when 10001. or 15001. a year, or 3 or
40001. a year, were raised, the funds, from private
hoods, might be found to dwindle away to nearly
nothing. Ile agreed witb the Committee, that the
safest mode of giving assistance was by doing some-
thing to remove impediments in the way of Educa-
tion in populous districts in the country, which arose
greatly from the want of proper school-houses, &c.
Such impediments being removed, it would not be
difficult to get one hundred and fifty or two hundred
pounds a year to keep the scheme going on; but the
great difficulty was, as to providing a sort of outfit.
This, however, should be provided for sparingly and
cautiously. The liberality that had been evinced in
large towns was in many instances surprising. Mr.
G. Dyer, a Gentleman who had been very useful and
exemplary in the pursuits of his life, though he had
not the honour of his acquaintance, had given him a
curious document, from which it appeared, at the
end of the reign of Queen Anne, that the voluntary
charitable foundations, in 1713, in the City of Lon-
don, by means of subscriptions, and collections after
charity sermons, &c. educated 4,7bt children, and
that the espence amounted only.to 8,8591., though
: the children were taught and clothed, and 100 or
*2OO of the number boarded. This was a corloos fact
ns to expence when compared with *bat was staved
in the evidence before the Committee. The great dif..
fereuce in the expence of such Institutions .for an
equal number of children was worthy of
• The result of all the enquiries was, that all clpfses
• entertaieed the most earnest, ardent, and strenuous
desire to receive the benefits of Education. The
officiating Ministers of the different parishes, who
had furnished the returns, deserved the thanks of the
..• llorhe and the country, for the teal; activity, and
•• industry with which they had conducted their ess.•
• (pities, anti transmitted their answevs to the Corn•
wit tee. In the course of a few days, in the space of
not more thin a week, six thonsand returns had
' been made ; anti, -generally, speaking, those Re-
verend Gentlemen stated that, in every situation,
V.ere prevailed the utmost 'desire to have the advatt.

taxes of beim; instructed.., ,In great. towns,
,sva
voluntary contributions were, milled, hiteriPtied,t,
House to remember, that, there might boaeschool sta
the plan of the Established Church, and another fei
Dissenters. In such places, the Church Society Might;
perhaps, exclude slumst all who dissautOd ItorP-Alefilli
hut still, each might have its own schooll totally in:
dependent of the other ; each might iustruit its own
poor. But this was not the case in a small town,
consisting, perhaps, of not more than 500 inhabit-
ants; it could support only one school, and if the
bulk of the people coexisted of Dissenters, they
would be excluded. This, it was obvious, must
operate to prevent the extension of Education. But,
more especially, when we came to a mere village, or
a hamlet of not more than half a dozen houses, it
was not to he presumed that any activity could be
exerted for the instruction of the poor : some cases,
perhaps, might he found, hot they were so very
rare, that they could not have much weight in argu-
ment.
In such places the People were not accustomed
to the machinery of popolous assembliesal-
though they might have a very great desire to be ediee
cated, they had not the means of accomplishing the
object, of their wishes. It was to the small towns
then, that he thought it would be absolutely necese
sary, at some future period, to direct the particular
attention of the House ; at no very distant time, he
hoped, he should call upon them to interfere, in the
way of legislation, to procure the benefits of Educa-
tion for those small villages and places. (The,llon.
and Learned Gentlemair finding himself interrepted
here by the conversation of some Members, solicited
their attention to this most important subject.)
Ile begged to remind the honourable Members (look-
ing towards the neutral benches), that he was now
discharging a very serious public duty : it might not
be very interesting to some ; it might not give them
so much satisfaction as some other topics in which
they occasionally exerted their abilities; still, al-
though it was a dull, dry, plodding, unparty-like
detail, he conceived that the welfare and happiness
of the empire were iuvolved in it, and therefore he
considered himself entitled to the attention of the
House.—[Loud cries of hear, hear !] —lle said,
that upon the grounds which he had stated, and on
the evidence which had been laid before the Com-
mittee, it would be necessary for Parliament, before
long, to adopt a system of Education for the Poor in
less populous towns of &Wand. It appeared to
him that the system of parish schools, from which so
many benefits had been &nivel!, ought to he extended
to towns of a moderate size ; this, he,conceited, would
furnish the principal means of supplying the defects of
education. A late, and deeply to be lamented, Mem-
ber of that House, of which he was so great en orna-
I
ment (Mr. Whitbread), had long applied his vir-
tuous understanding to this subject ; he called it
virtuous, because, strong as it was, it was con-
stantly employed in devising thp best means of
ameliorating the situation of the People in general.
He directed his attention most assiduously to the
matter now under consideration, and he recommend.
ed that it should be fully and impartially investigated
by a Committee. No enquiry, however, took place,
and the House were called upon to legislate in the
dark. Another great ornament of that House, who
never failed to gratify them by the brilliancy of his
genius, although it frequently led him into para-
doxes which were most injurious to the community
(the late Mr. Windham) certainly opposed himself to
the schemes for the Education of the Poor. He
was imitated by others who pretended to assent to
his doctrines, that if we educated the poor we should
prevent them from being mechenics and workmen ;1
if we gave them Education we should make them too
proud to submit to labour. But these prejudices,
so hurtful to the happiness of society, were now done
away ; he was happy to he enabled to state that, in
the Committee, he had never heard any thing of pa.
radoxical doctrines; every one agreed that Education
should he extended to all (cheeses of the community,
though some differed in, opinion as to the plan. A
Sister Country, which at the close of the 15th cen.
tury was in a state comparatively barbarous, but cer-
tainly very poor, had set us a great and noble exam•
ple on this subject. In the year 1494, the Parlia-
ment of Scotland passed an Act for compelling the
Barons and great freeholders to send their sons to a 1
grammar-school,where they might be taught the Latin
tongue. In the reign of Charles I. a greater pro-
gress was mode io the system of Education ; for
Charles, whatever his deficiencies, and however averse ,
to reform its this part of thelsland, was a great re. I
former in Scotland. Sincerely attached to his native
country, and anxious to render it the most essen-
tial services, he produced great reformation in the
Church : he was the author of that important mea-
sure, the commutation of tithes, and finally, he laid
the foundation of the parish schools. In 1632, an
Act of Council was passed for their better regula-
tion • but this not being found sufficiently effective,
the Legislature afterwards directed their attention to
the subject, and, shoot the year 1696, the Scottish
Parliament left that last valuable legacy to its
country, the establishment of parish schools. This
system of Education had continued to this day, and
,after the experience of more than a century, it bad
been found to be attended with the most complete
nieces,. In each parish a building was erected, lit-
tle
better than a barn—a building which in that'
country, was not' worth more than 401., and which
here would not cost more than 1001. '1 he salary of
the master was, at first, 101. a-year, it was then
raised to ISt., and had been since advanced to 241.
From this system, so permanent, useful, end sa-
lutary, extending from the highest' to the lowest
classes of the community. the whole of Scotland de-
rived the blessings of Education. Go where we
would, over the world, we should find that a Scotch-
man, though distieguisheil for some qualities which he
would not mention, because he entertained a general
respect for the country, was distinguished by the qua-
lity of A good education. The consequence was,
ghat to whatever part they emigrated, and certainly
they sere rather fond of emigration —U s laugh],—
they universally, enjoyed a meat degree of ease, com-
parative affluence, and succese• ins life. In some of
had filled themselves,
the foreign partaiitt which tile;
for instance, Ist Ike Palitasla pt States of Germany,
and in Sweden, they carried along withoth system,some
some-
thing upon She metes, oft the :pprish school
and there the lower orders were much better educated
than in any other pences —(llear!)—ln America,
they had adopted steps for establ:th'ing a schoo! sy --

•
tem on the„ of idle Scots. In every o-
Fettertipot*e •if Wed was reserved for di, lb.
of tbe pool
.atid Edration, so far from Wit on-
skiere4 este objection, and injurious to thi in us
of 'society, was otiiii;isalry regarded as .affaisl the
gre,a)gs,t ever. to 'fittest ryi end the most powerful
chick to vice.—[llear, hearq-:-Witit resin' to el‘e
measures that had been 'proposed among ourselves,
he would first remit to the recollection of the House.
Chet the only objection which the late 'Mr. Pereeial
bad made to the system recommended by Mr. Whit.
bread was, that he thought the proposition was pre-
' mature : he thought that we should begin at the
wrong end, if we began by Legislative proceediegs,
and that we ought to commence by enquiry. It was
I remarkable that Mr. Perces.% pointed out that it
would he highly inexpedient to legislate before they
had had a Committee, and a Commission td enquire
into the funds of charities, and into the situation of
poor children. This step had now been taken : a
Committee had been appointed, a Commission had
been issued, and enquiries had been made, not only
as to what funds existed, hut also as to the aboses
that had been committed, in order that the House
might see what deficit there was in those funds, if
any, which he very much questioned. He would
now shortly state the nature and objects of the parti-
cular plan before them ; but before he entered into a
statement of the prodigious amount of the abases
that had been discovered. be would mention, that al-
most the whole of the evidence was derived from the
most 'respectable, sources—the clergyriven who had
made the returns to which he had already alltided. In'
1782, returns, were made in persoance of Mr. Gil-
bert's Act; and it now appeared, that no account
was given of nearly •ne.third of the whole funds.—
In the county of Berks, for instance, only 70001. out
of 20,0001. was returned. Various other instances
might be adduced, but in consequence of the evidence
Iwhich was now in the hands of the Committee, it
would be easy to correct the returns. Taking the
eveisee of, only one-third having been returned, there
would be a total of 750,0001. a veer ; and, he had a
:right to assume, that if every thing of which the
trustees were in receipt were to be returned, upwards
of 800,0001. would be the sum actually employed.--
Bat then, it must not be overlooked that a greet'
portion of those funds had not been received, either
from negligence, ignorance, fraud, or direct breach:'
of trust. And, again, we must take into the account
the loss that had been hitherto sustained by the want
of powers in the trustees to make the most of the
property, particularly the pOwers of selling and ex-
changing. Then he would say, that if all the funds
bad been received, and if the trustees had been in-
vested with authority to sell and exchange, he should
have to state, that, instead or 800,0001. a year, there
was nearly '2,ooo,oool.certaittly more than 1,500,0001.
of solid, substantial revenue, arising from land,
and applicable to charitable uses. This, he would
repeat, was a most interesting question., connected
as it was, in a great degree, with the subject of
the Poor Laws, which had engaged so much at.
(option on both sides of the House. When he
said that there existed some such connection, he was
sanctioned by the language and by the proceedings of
the Legislature itself. The first of the Statutes re-
specting chat 'table uses, the Statute of Elizabeth, was
passed at that time when the Queen and the Parlia-
ment were laying the foundation of the Poor Laws;
and it was very remarkable that, in the Statute Book,.
nest to the Act for the Regulation of the Poor, stands
the law for enquiring into Charitable Donations. In
addition to this, it was worthy of remark, that Mr.
Gilbert's Act, in the Preamble, stated, that before
any further change was made in the laws relating to'
the poor, it was expedient to escertain what chutea...
ble funds there were for the use of the poor. He
concluded, therefore, that there could not be a bet.;
ter time than the present for carrying into executio
the purposes of the Bill which lie intended to salami
to the consideration of the House. If there were
any prospect of the Report being before Parliament
this Session, he would not trespass any longer on
their attention ; but as there was uo probability that
the labours of the Commijtee would be closed in
time, he should beg to trouble them with some im-
portant statements. In the county of Berke, the
Committee had found this very striking circumstance:
In 1640, a sum of 4,0001. was bequeathed for the pur-
chase of lands, for the Education of the Poor. Be-
fore the close of the year 1660, the purchase was ef.
fected : 39001. were then hid out, and, with respect
to the other 1001., he presumed that it went for es-
pence,. What did the house think was the value of
those lands ? It was 19'51. a-year, which was an in-
terest of 5 per rent. ; and yet, up to the year 1790,
in the space of a century, it was not increased ; and
even then, the less careful or less wise trostees, in the
reign of George 111. granted a lease for 21 years, on
an increase of only 101. more than the estate had
produced in the time of Charles 11. In 1811, how-
ever, the rent was doubled, end, therefore, the abuse
did not exist now, but the circumstance showed how
liable these funds were to be neglected or misapplied.
Another estate in the county was let at 4501., while
eminent surveyors had valued it at 10001. In a Corp°.
ration in Hampshire, instead of '20001.a year, the poor
did not receive above*3ool. In the hands of the same
Corporation was the sum of 10001. belonging to one
of Mite's charities. The House might remember
that Sir Thomas White bequeathed a very large sum,
about 20,0001.. which be directed slibuld be lent out'
without interest, to poor tradesmen, or be applied to'
charitable purposes. This Corporation became pos-
sessed of one of those 10001. What they had done
with one 5001. he did not know, hut he knew what
they had done with the other 5001. They had not
lent it to poor tradesmen, or bestowed it on charitable
purposes; but they had come in and borrowed it for
their own use, and yet, not contented with this—
would the House believe it?—they had entered on
their books a virtuous recommendation to their suc-
cessors to do the same I—tilearq—The evidence that
had been laid before the Committee consisted, partly,
'of an immense mass of correspondence, and, generally
speaking, the returns were made by the resident.
Clergy. In Devonshire, in answer to the question,
what funds existed, the tiergyman replies, '6 The
funds of the school are kodato only to Mr: Such-a.
one." In anOtherlflace, no account et all could be
given ; and its a third, it appeared that the estate had
been let upon a 99 years' lease. Now this, be con•
ceived, was a great abuse : it was en abuse, if the
trustees had taken a flee; and it was an abuse) if