The Statesman.
London, England, 1813-01-27 00:00:00

according to
loft a clear
Mann atone
GeoAlentan's
Lord

nothing but ,
owing to the war in
French Republic.

India for 13 years,
'stated by Mr. Hume,
it ii only since the,
Itfds increase in the..
his taken place. Put
the Company's oppoi,
it was a statement upon
credit, that the whole
and to Americ.3,
they were about 40 y
1768 ? The annual
111,0001. It was tree the Company Aid not attach
much importance to this trade in a commercial point
of view, but they did attach great imporwps to it
as a link in a chain of interests, which, if ten out,
- This was
if

, •,

arge4 _ smuggling
on, with respect to the India trade,
. Thames alone, than in all the Test of the country.—
' This nos easily accounted for. It was no wonder
that there was more smuggling where the goods did
actually thin where' they did not go.. Ships, how-
_

ewu
only remark that he
Nobleman which
adduced. Re
had Sr..
of India
Company; but
, so that the
supposition were
Proprietor had admitted
that the ships . appointed for the private trade were
often. considerably delayed.
Mr. KEWNaTU &EITEL rose to explain, that he had
admitted that the ships had been delayed, but, for po.
litiosl purposes.

the whole system might crumble in pieces. .., , go, tn.... - _ _
quan. ,what
ieuahnewwhainatedex, asistedit shboetwwedeenthethmeiscchoiemlspaolflyt,hsecocomne.
1 sccidentilly had ionelpto other ports,. as Ibis- i Mr. Hu" mE continued, that this explanation was
- - • I ---i
the proper answer to the question—Why, .. It isle' ares'
No ; because • tol, and then it was sheep observed that the
losing trade, will you not resign it ?,
we cannot resign it without resigning the coniroul tity of goods impaled was greater than usual. Hit u
and cote-
which we exercise over the territorial - preseut, with every preinetion, it. was impossible to . mem and its politics.
mercial interests of that branch of the Empire, -
prevent the M w erit trade, hat wouldbe themV.e when; The
—liallteatt begged the Honourable Proprietor
and without endangering the existence of the In- these articles were removed, and the only profits of I would confine himself as much u possible to expla.
dkn system altogether. He had heard no sound the owners of vessels would, perhaps, arise from it ? natise,
argument on the ether side, nor could he see any. The Company were DOW placed in a situation un-1 After a cry of question,
safety for the Company in a compromise. He should paralleled :it was a struggle for their existence, al Mr. Hume continiusd, that so many-things pressed
f
not'refiect on an lion. Member for the singularity case of life and death. The Court of Directors would on holt that he was inclined to. say-more than he
of hie conduct, in alone studding forward to oppose never surrender the interests of the Proprietors, but could wish.—{Cryo go on I]—The admission of tie
they would be guided by their decision ; and he hoped Hon. and Learned Gentleman
the sentiments of the Court ; but be thought he might. , on his right (Mr. IL
justly complain of his attempting to revive former
that that decision would be each as fo lead to a Jackson), that the capital of the Company had bean
lexhausted by the dkersion of their capital to pollti.
controversies, which :could answer no end but to triumphant issue to the contelL
sow the weds of dissension and irritation in their 1 Mr. RMIDLE Jscasoe observed, that when a i cal,purposes, was an additional reason in favour of
minds. As the same Ge wean bad referred to 1 Ministry submittid a string ef questions to a Board' the bean*/ of what be contended, viz. the sepia.
Xl
Lord Wellesley, as an 'lath :, he should alto beg •of cousnlissionors, _the anewees,, however safarour- : Bon a Politics and commerce. A.,,Oentletnen who
leave to quote Ids opinion. 'y r. Grant then read an able in their real result, would at least be as col- : had spoken on a former day is that-Court had said,
extract from a letter of Lord Wellesley's, in 1800, ploismil as possible. This had been the ease with ; that he could at any time have obtained 5000 more
in which that Noble Lord deprecated the idea of the Report of the Commissioners of the Customs, on ; tons thank had had any necessity for. This, he
-pre-
throwing open the trade to India, without reserve, es which so much stress had been laid. The opinion ofj soared, would be sufficiently answered by the Chair-
unjust, impolitic, and founded in a total ignorance of the Board was very obvious indeed. They had ex- i man of the Court of Directors, of whose evidence be-
facts. Aa insinuation had been thrown out, that the pressly stated to Government, that it would be ab.et fore a Committee of the House of Commons he should
results of the regulation of 1793 had not been en- solutely necessary to confine the trade, to reduce the + read an extract. The extract was to this effect :
swerable to the intentions of.those whceframed there, size of the vessels, and to place them under a guard I `tThe private merchants complain of want of ton.
and that, this was the fault of the East India Com- of revenue cotters. He wished this statement to go , nage ;we admit the complaint, but the blame of the
party. He might say that he had opportunities of out to the world, as while there was an affectation ! deficiency is not to be attributed to the Court of Di-
knowing what the intentions of those who framed to open the trade to the whole country, and on thelrectors " &c.
that Act were, and he could assert with truth, most broad and liberal principles, the Commissioners Mr:DAVIS rose to ordert andl amidst considerable
that they had never entertained the idea of open.. declared that it could with safety be extended to only • clamour, said, that there was no period when he
ing the trade to the extent to which It had been four or' five ports. Some curious facts came out in !could not have obtained the number of tons in ques.
carried. So far was it from being fair to represent this document. With respect to Liverpool in, parti. : tion. .
the Company in an invidious light, as if they had cular, it was stated, that the entrauce'into the har-1 Mr. R. JACKSON rose to order, and asked, whe.
withheld ihe privileges granted to the private trader, • hour was not long and open to sight, but dud nothing they, to depress an individual, they should depart
that they had afforded additional facilities, and ex- • could be better caleulated for smuggling. The ob. 1 from their established rules of proceeding ? There
ceeded the intentions of the Act He should only add jections to the other four 'or five ports were still ! were but few persons who would have been able to
a few words more. The question had been too much greater, and yet this was the document on which preserve their temper, under such irritation as the
treated as a commercial question: he had himself the Ilonourable Proprietor and the Ministers bot- ; Hon. Gent. (Mr. IL) had been exposed to.
taken this view of it, but he considered it as a very toned their argument against the increase of smug...! Mr. HUME proceeded to say, that the experience
narrow and comparatively insignificant one, for the gling. jpf all private merchants militated against the experi.
subject really Involved political considerations of the The CHAIRMAN stated, that by the rules of the ' duce of the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. Davis). The cora.
greatest magnitude, and the vital interests of mil. Court the mover of the original question only had a; whoa which had been draws between the attempt of
lions of people. Even in this confined way of stat. right to reply. If, therefore, this privilege was ex. ! Mr. Fox, in 17835* and the proceedings of the Mi-
ing the question, it appeared that there was no pro. , tended to any other gentleman, it would be by the ; nistry, was not correct, is Mr. Fox had attempted
bability of any material increase in the commerce to : courtesy of the Court, and he hoped, that as their to take the patronage into his own hands, while the
or from India. If the petitioners, then could be time was precious, any observations:that might be i present Ministry (lid not wish the Company to give
convinced of this, would they not desist? He fear- made would I* confined to explanation. • lap any thing bat a source of loss, which the Di.
ed not, for there was a, propensity in the mind, ! Mr. Huns said, that grateful as he was for the in-1 rectors manifested a wonderful reluctance to part
when once heated in any cause, to persevere in spite , dulgence granted to him on a former occasion, he i with. An :Honourable Gentleman who bad spoken
of evidence. He would, however,' recommend it to should be unwilling uniseCessarily to trespass a mo.
.on a limner day (Mr. R. Grant), had said In one
them to pause, before they attempted to pull down ! ment on their time ; yet he thought, in spite of the ' sweeping clause; that ail hie (Mr- 11.'.) foe* wore
an old and venerable establishment, which it would regulations of the Court, he had a right to reply, ; Irrelevant ; but the reason of this opinion be had
be ditficut to build up again. As to the'llittisters, ' after the observations that had been thrown out; been unable to collect, u not one item of that Gen.
they seemed to have no decided opinion of their own, ' against him. So many persons had spoken against:lentil's speech applied to them. That Gentleman,
but to rely on the representations of others. Of the' him that be did not know Which to answer first : , after condemning the Edit:buil/4 Review, which,
credit due to those representations, the Court might , but he should begin at the bottom, and so rise regu- • with a little change of phraseology, he (Mr. flume)
form some opinion from the extracts he had read to- ; larly to the top..—[4 laugh.]--His opinions and would designate a work as- able as It is useful, for
day. But with no better authority on their side, . conclusions were not in opposition to those of the adducing facts which happened 30 years ago, as
with no steady or consistent opinion of their own, . Directors, but in perfect conformity with them. His grounds for Legislative enactment, not content him,
Ministers had called upon them to resign. lle hoped, opinions could not be refuted, for they were found- , self with so short a period, went back to the Go,
however, that they would persevere as they had be. ed on proof and on facts. 1 vernment of Lord Clive, and wished to provide, in
gun, and appeal with confidence to the candour and ' Mr. TIIIIILWALL rose to order, and wishnd the , 1814, against the enormities of that time, However
good sense of Parliament and of the nation. ' Hon. Member to confine himself to the strict line of gratified he (Mr. Hume), as well as the Court, might
Mr. Monetts stated, as as instance of the dangers explanation. I be by that Gentleman's fine metaphors and flowing
attending the trade with India, that the natives had 1 The ellaittMAX said, that he thought time would ; language, yet, his whole speech being founded on
risen upon, and massacred an adventurer of the name be gained by letting the gentleman go on hi his own the ill-grounded adsumptien, that adventurers would
of Martin. Our Empire in India rested upon the ful. way. Ibe permitted to roam throughout the East without
crum of opinion, and he should be sorry to see it ; Mr. HUME insisted that be wit perfectly in order. any kind of restraint, no conclusion could be drawn
shaken by the indiscriminate introduction of the Eng- . His facts had not been refuted, but confirmed by the' from it. Another Gentleman had reiterated the
lish into that country. - : attempts of the Hon. Director that day to &newer . charge of irrelevancy. If facts relative to the govern-
Mr. TWINING said, he should ill discharge the ob- them. All that be had said proved, thnt whatever; ment and commerce of India were not relevant, he
ligations he owed to the Proprietors and that Court, • was the amount, there had been a. great increase of ; should wish to ask what could be ?.[4ppiouse.]—
if he did not express his opinion on the present er- trade. If an increase to threefold was an increase, ! Yet this assertion had at the time beep received with
casion. The question had, however, been so ably an increase had .terteittly taken piece, He would! applause—to such a degree are men carried away
argued within the Bar, and so eloquently urged on leave it to the Court to jusip whether they ought to ;by partiality and prejudice. An Honourable and
the other side of the liar, 'that it would not be ne- • trust the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Grant), or experi. : Learned Gentleman near him, however (Mr. R.
cessary for him to say mach. The authors of the re. ewe; whether they should trust the opinion of that ' Jackson), hail been of another opinieu, so he should
gulatious of 1793 had. thought it better to trust to Hon. Gentleman, however weighty and respectable, ' dismiss that Hon. Troprietor alluded to without
experience than to hazard experiment. They had or the account of the sales on which he (Mr. Hume) further observation. After remarking, in allusion
therefore determined to preserve the same system grounded himself. As a proof that there would be: to what had been said by Mr. Impey, that Mr.
of commercial and territorial Government, at the ' no probability of an increase in the article of cotton, ! Waithman might as well be considered an upholder
same time opening the trade to the private' Mei.- . the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grant) had stated, that •of Government as himself ; Mr. Hume said, in
chant, under such restrictions as were deemed ere- that commodity could not be purchased in. India and answer to Mr. Twins, that the exchange with France
cessary to the security of those primary objects.— , brought to England at less than 10d. per pound. But had been long 34 per cent. against this country, by
Lord Melville hod applied hie.powerful mind to ;lin that same Gentlensto bad WA> stated how ofteneot- . which-means-a sneermighti by-conveying" 1000 gui-
subject, and had come to the same conclusions.. ion was sold in this country at 15d. 17d. per pound, neas from Dover to Calais, gain some hundreds of
He might, perhaps, be accused of being prejudiced and sometimes at even a higher price. The quantity pounds, whilst by conveying a pound of t'a which
hattdator tentporis acti ; but he believed that the of this article said to be remaissing at present in the would occupy the same space, he might gain the
mess of the greatest reputation for wisdom its the warehouses. amounted only to one half of the quite- enormous sum of five shillings, the amount of the
present day, would not increase that reputation , tity annually sold ; and if the circumstance of duty on that article. A Noble Peer, Lord Mel-
by acting en other views and principles. One ob-; such a stock remaining on hand, were an argument vile, had by a Learned Gentlemao (Mr. tt. Jack.
serration lie would make on what had been said of the ; against this trade, what trade- might not be ob- ewe) been accused of inconsistency. But he (Mr.
increased trade from China. He conceived, that in ; jected to on the same grounds? As to indigo, from, H.) thought it not all dishonourable to that Noble
ehtimating that increase, we must take into the ac- i whatever cau4 any of that article might have been Lord, to have altered his opinion on a maturer view
count the Increased' price of the article. This had . res.taining so long as had been said in the warehouses, of the subject, and hoped that the Directors might
not been done ; and yet he believed that the' increase ' he slid not know
,•; what he knew was, that the sale have the same candour. The Hon. Gentleman wa-
lled Weil very little in the quantity, and almost ! of that article amounts annually to 1,679,0001. a chided, by saying, that if the original Resolution
wholly in the price. lie was doubtful which would i strong proof of what might he done by private en. were withdrawn, he should be willing to withdraw
be most fatal to the Company, the success or failure i terprise. As to the prtifits of the Company on the his amendment, until he saw the .nature of the
of the traders from the Out-ports. Their success I trade with India, he should remark, that it wadi(' Resolutiou which might be substituted to the present
could only result from a transfer of the Company's ! be an unfair method of, reasoning to state the profit one.
trade to other naiads ; their failure, on the contrary,i of that trade without charging on it those Renal Sir H. !Man (the Chairman) said, that he hoped
they would attrie A
gte.to any other cause than their 1 which would he paid by any private merchant on a his m Friend (Mr. Weiland) would not with-
own folly or mismanagement, and then nothing ! private adventure. The amount of the duty on the draw his Resolution. After enumerating the States-
would satisfy them, limit of a total and uticandi- I exports from India at the rate paid by the private rim- men whose opinion favoured the Company's motto-
tional surrender of all their privileges on the pert of ' chants, would amount in the period shaded to by the poly, he said, that if the lion. Gentleman (Mr.
the Company. When ruin both of individuals awl ' Honourable Director to 381,0001. On the imports Hume) could suppose any of the Directors actuated
of the Company was complete, it would be little as. I into India there was a duty of el per cent. on the by so bile a motive as the desire of retaining the pa-
tisfaction for them to reflect, fla.4 they lied been sa. i woollen, and one of 10 per cent. on other goods. troupe-that argument would not avail him, as the
crific.ed to groundless glamour. He wag not eccuse I Taking theaverage of theseduties as an approximn. I patronage would still continue in their hands un-
tamed to think the worse of others ros differing from , tion to the truth, the duties on the Company's im- , toggled. The lion. Baronet proceeded to state
him in opinion, nor was tie inclined to eptiderfiq en ports would amount to 866,0001. It was evident i this classes of persons who would be either thrown
Honourable Proprietor for tlie facts and argumewe i that these sems should be deducted (teethe cons. :fiestitnte by the abolition of their privileges, or be
he had brought forward. But he thought two Geri: - mercial profits, and added to the territorial revenuel ovided for Jo a much less liberal manner than at
dentin would he liable to the charge of pciilniniiit NOW these duties togitber - with the simple Interest present, end remitted, that it was by. the funds of
,•0 •
if he still portioned In his opinion' is spite at all Obi oi the investments*. elenamed to t 0117 QUO Thicli the Churl that f4dia had been acquired and !wee

i

~. ,S
~(,

- —. --wr—
, . •
• , . ,
.. •
. .
. , •
.. .
, .. • • .• • .
ltz 1.17 E., 'l',A.,l_llalitlV.. . . . - t
. .. .. . ~..
.._-"im
..._............,..._:,.....,__•_----1.----, , ..
what wed-could not carry
.91i ogeuis qs,' . *l,o**w-hard.. In. .1 itg catloi.
of the of, the Zetipahy's efter deducting the profit of the trade,' se(
war in-loich we were engaged with , alth...lli Ale (sr. Herne) had particulorly KW that the Honourable Director (Mr. Grant) le,
)üblic:. The 'exports of AineAUlt 2 front" 411°
Directors implied 'a Melee to leis of hetweei 5 or 606,0001.un those lie
416gInktrt
years, amount to not -whet-had been tire Goy iewit. • White A preindlie was once ex.- even according to the Honeurahle Geatlea
he should now only roma/
'They had, lesley's opinion,' .
r. Hume, but to aboot 31 yeiliy :—and apil 110dref men, people Were. apt to, *hewing. • On Whatinid been said about L
ice theeirench itevolutiona.rY . wir that, can leels. ikey. ,could ,lope.
in the A I American exports from India indeed " (14141011 id aps.4,,filhoone:. opinion on ',ht. &Add refer .to opinions of that Noblesn
ace. uot what must- be the opinicies of , sehiect to the' 4ovorsunint, and this. Was con. would contradict that which bad been adds
y's opponents, when he woaltliitate, .nd i strued ideas'
defiant" !Intl( they had'withbeld- that fully conceded the point to those who
ement upon which he *hula- stake all his 1 opinion, to*ht net : reererotoent hereafter say to geed that a cession of the Government
the whole exports from India to Europe ' then!) and. with grist reason, Why did pen not in. Would be attended with ruin to the Comp
tries, at prescps, are not greater. then
„l'iirnt nst before it was' ton late, 'et y odi decided they were sot now called on to cede it s
outO years 'vita, that is about the Yeer ! oiddlon On the question of smuggling, it had conclusions which'were bUilt on that suppois i
) annual prat of the India trade ran : been erect that more smuggling was at present ear- netUfusech weight. An non. ptoprietor hac
It was true the Comoanv did not attach ; rind on, with respect to the India trade, in the river that the ships . appointed for the private tr