The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-03-12 00:00:00

for to shelter them. The events that
_took place in
Ireland ought to be a warning to that House. -In
that country, Magistrates committed the greatest
nets of cruelty and horror, for which they were
afterwattla rewarded. It was 6t that these should IM
remembered; and also, that these atrocities :were
perpetuated under the mild and beneficent reign
of King George 111., under the Viceroy in Ire-
•, land ; and they should all operate as an awful warn-
ing.. ..
to slits country. All these• were the ceasettellacell
of giving improper encouragement to Magistrates.
Tim peacedentat 1:01„ bad been referred Int-eltdlie was ready
to allitw that the present Bill did not extend so far as the one
111Ikb low passed in that year. Hut the precedent of (001, was
not nt oil applicable. At that time there was a correspoodeoce,
Zeal or pretended, between the- subjects of the two Governments,
dangerous to the trampillity of this country, add basing for its
object the subversion;gibe Slate. Nothing of this kiad 'listed
Meow 4 and ha would ask, whether there was any probability 1
with .1 the persons on whose evidence so many bad been imprison-
sad, might not be safely disclosed. Did any of the witnesses al
.oerby cull epee the Conn to afoot them protectiou ? Cu..
*Moly not. Where was the danger. thee., of submitting the mom
tbf the Petitioners to the examination of a Jury? and was k
possible that*, House meld mantas. such a motorises fahainnil
(for.he could call it by so other name) ar the Oatmeal kr Oa
Bill, that to allow the imprisoned met opportunity of redress by
molar course of law would cadence* the safety of (have no
whore evidonee they Mid been conased I—(Hettr, hear 0 —lo
plain Foglish, (Motu:mowed to nothing less than a legal sanction
the Spy System. It was establishing, by an Act of Podia-
t. )btu persons were endangered of their lives by giving evi•
against public disturbers, and that therefore the accused
Mot be punished, but no trial granted. Be would merely say,
with regard to the use of Spies, that on the most mature delibera-
tion which be could give the subject, he wasdeeidedly of opinion
that no circumstances maid justify the use of Spies. at least. in
the way whirls Oliver had been employed—f Hear, hear 0
Spite of the ridicule which bad been cast upon him. for utter-
ing a similar itentimeet souse time ago. he reiterated it 'confi-
dently ; because be frit, that though the po-iiiou (night he
treated contemptuously, it could not be disproved. by any
maxims of sound pulley or good government. He never ima-
gined hot that id inislers had a right to receive information Irma
mete of equivocal character; but to employ them, to set them
on as searchers after treason, was unworthy of a free State,
and deserving the severest reprehension.—[filear, hear !]—The
authority of Chief Justices Holt and Eyre had been. quoted in
support or the system which had been pursued; their opinions
w ere entitled to great weight, undoubtedly, from their great
totems and virtue; but neither of them had held, that it was
sight to employ Saks and Informen. Chief Justice Pyre, than
w hum, a more constitutional and patriotic Judge had never
paced the Bench—oho had made his way to that die-
. iiity fawn very low circumstances, by his abilities, nod
not by submission to the powers that be, had said, that
it was not blameable in a Governinent to receive Weirton,
lion from soch sources. Hot could that be an authority for
the systematic employment of Spin? Out the eon rary it might
he fairly adduct d, its sup; ort of the opposite opinion. NIMS,
it wa., beyond a doubt, that Spies hat been employed by the
present Ministers; and the phrase which was used a night or two
ok.. " that they were tilt. d out for their commisatim," nos
Ii 'rally trite. Moue!! Him. Members dm the otls r side had
tats, is blitli offence at it. Ministers had fitted out Castles in the
Ilene and common iseeeplatiote of the terms ; for he appeared in
i Court as A 94 ;loess. iii the clothes which had been purch•ard for
him by Mr. Stafford, the C;ei k of llow-stree:•olfice • doubtless
itiMa the authority of his superiors. His wife was alai sent out
of the Ms% , lest she slniald he brouaht lanyard to rebut any
pm (Obis evidence. Oliver was sent down from Londimas a
Delrgole t and it was pr sed by the Derby trials, that no man
would have -titled a hand in the insurrection had it not been
ri.r hi, rep t ~mafioso' tarns roug force existing in Lond.'n ready
to co 'Terme with ihllsl. its the country Masa living testimony,
in fort, of a spii it of reit° s existing in the metropolis; and his
artful villainy sacceeded in produei, g a conviction whin;
prompted Mem to the ei iininal proceedings that followed.—
the pi at einem 4 made Its his Hon. Primal ( Mr. Bennett) confirmed
this fact beyond dispute, in every unprejudiced mind. True
it teas, that the }louse had beets told that designs against the
Male ea istrd before Oliver appeared in them. Ministers were
thou totting preciiely the same ground of defence, as had been
resorted to, in a trail action of the most infamous. description,
mud wl.ich had drawn down the execration of every man its the
Itisigd it.. Ile alluded to :lie • ase of Vaughan, and his coot
pitnitls.— 1 I Icor. bra- I)—lie did not mean this olfensitely, but
that the mode of defence nal she same in both cases. Vaughan
raid, :hat liiii villain- u ere not roam men of good character end
virtuous habits; that they were thieves by trades and he and
his companions had met ety told them of an essy burglary, and
they fill into it. Such, he rOnCrilletl. was the .ee-e of Lord
bidtaimtis ; ut the same time. he must guard himself from being
ocdrrstood as s...ting it offeosively.,—(ilear 0— He looked at the
illilemullY Bill liv ill) horror : hut that woe muhing,compared with
the Ireling a hick arose from contemplating this, as purr Gran op.
ilic..iye sy,teni, which was to be inflicted on the court ry, at
the a ill of the Gayer sssss est. The !louse was called upon to say,
that the Nlogitirters shuulit have impunity for the violation of
lea ; that they shall ssize, imprison, and load with irons.
whomsoever they plea-ma allow the sufferer haring nay right of
I <vireo, or vrl.tf•Ct. on crota the Constitution; mid they were told
ey tl.e tensor of this proceeding, that whenever the Habeas Cur-
io,. Act 1.1.5. Sts,pessard, the Magistrates might see they acre is.•
sear,' with increased power, to use at their own will and plea-
.ii re, 5% iiimiit reference to consequences, for a Hill of Indemnity
would follow.— [ Hear !]—This was to be the law of England ;
Ira he knew, if soelt a state of things were to be established; if
the People were to he oppressed, and their Petititios treated
...oh Widitlereeeet if the Constitittiou was to be sacrificed,—the
liberty of Englishmen would exist 110 tutor but is the records of
p.:st ages. lie ;.new that if such was to be the history of the pre-
-rot MI, it would :dm appear that a few persons. oiscomaged es
ihry were, had protested ii,tanist this violation of Public lillos,
and were desirous of abidia; by that liberty, law, and justice.
w hid, had been the pride and purcitase of our ancestors, and
matte this reentry the boast of ourselves and the envy of others.
—Pleat, bear I I—The reign of his preseio Majesty bud beets
di- tingoished by events snore important than thaw of any other
Itif,ll by exploits in 1011.4, which had astonished the world,
and excelled Ste glories of tins sage or country ; bat if these fre-
quent attacks upon the Constitution were suffered—if the Spy
Is stein aas pertaiweil,and the irresponsibility of the Executive
I their agents to the Laws of the Lund established, be might
torn say in the language of the Poet—
" That England, which was wont to conquer others,
" Has gain'd a shameful conquest o'er herself."
The Learned Gentleman concluded by oh-erviors, that whatever
might he the result, be %humid be able to say, that he at least had
dune his duty.—[Hear, hear!]
The SOLICiTOR.GENERAL rase to reply to
the speech of Ilia !lost. and Ledford Friend, pbo bad.
in fact, argued the question of Indemnity as an ab.
sit rocs subject, and had cautiously kept tram the House
all the events of last Session which led to the present
measure. It had never been 'spied by his Learned
Frieuti (the A iturney-Geiseral) that a Hill of Indem-
nity was a necessary consequence of the . suspension
of the Habeas Corpus Act.—[llear, hear!)—llia.
llouourable and Learned Friend had said, *that the
foundation of the present measure was to furnish
ass i.alemnity to Ministers for their illegal acts. The
fact was not so—Ministers had eot committed one
illegal act. Why then, it might be asked, reqaire a
Dill of tudemuity ? Because it was not consistent'
with the safety of the State, or of those who had sup-
lied Government with information to 'oppress the
fate dangerous conspiracy, fe bat¢ that information
end the authors of it disclosed its .Coetts of Justice,
as it necessarily must, if every individual who con-
, ',silted himself injured is the late transactions might be
left tobring his at tiousgeinst a Minister ors Magistrate.
it VW' not that Ministers could not defend them-
,elves in every instance, but that an 'nuisance of
i lin actioes would sacrifice the confidence reposed its
them, and bettey those who had powerfully coma-
- buted to the increased state of tranquillity and secu-
rity now etijnyed—he ssid increased, for he was far
from thinking that Security was perfectly restored.-.-
Ills Honourable Ftiensi himself might, by.untl-bye,l,
eve the necessity of concealing the iiiformstion. Diu.
affection still existed,• and, therefort9 • it would be
tot * ise to disclose that evidence which might still bee
mess, of sopprssing treason note brooded on. 'flier
Reports looked to persons still. busy in treasonable,
ittsjects. ilut; independently of that consideratiPo,
it: Juilice to Slinisiest, and to those who hail pre-

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