The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-08-18 00:00:00

as to retracting his steps., if it WAS thought that
awither mode of proceeding were more constitutional.
But he should object Wit if it was intended merely
to delay or suspend tlfe ene.isure. •
The Marquis of Lisirooolv said. it was neressary
for him to advert to the peculiar cirrenistnnees in
which the House stood, and to the reasons which had
induced him to give his codseat to the Kra reading
of the Bill. He mould not et, the length of snyint,
though some persons in that House, and more out of
it. were of that opinion, that on ftft, occasion what-
ever should they pass Hills of Pains and Penalties.
He had the deepest sense of all the inconveeirnees
which often attached, and all the injustice which
always appeared to attach, to Bills of this nature, bat
he shattlit feel it to he his ditty to the 'tutor of his
power to defend and to presets., and which, when ap-
plied with justice. might he material to the well being
of the country. The gronuti on which Ise wasimineed
to consent to the admission of sea) a Bill in the pre-
sent instance, was the alle!?tion of the Noble Earl
who !bought it in, and of others who took upon them—
selves the responsibility of suck a ffteriire. that On
oth:d. means existed of heinging under consideration
and of punishing nets, on the consideration and punish-
ment of which (the said) the safety of the State de-
' pended. On dill ground alone it seas that he eon-
rented to the first reading of the Bill, end to allow
it to remain on the Table. Disapproving, as isesiid,
of all the prvliminary proceedings liviore the Bill was
introduced, which, in his apini,di, tended to wealseathe
effect of tvliwever venchtsion they might tome to, and
to produce the prejuiliee n W.. 11 at that tinge foisted.
be had not, nevertheless, ohjected to lay the Bill on she
table, because he thought thus touch respect was die
to any Member of that Howie who took opus himself
the responsibility of so !rote • an eri-ssatieu, that it
' thould'be seribiny whethei reFttidsseist was
driven to that eittivoie remedy ? But hewing. ailowed
' the Bill to lie ow the table. they were sow titled on
to inquire into the existence of that necessity which
for the time they had aessered upon the iptt df nit of
one of their menshe-s ; and whether public justice sod
expediency would not be sati-fied by some other step
thin that which the Noble Earl who had brought is
the Bill declared to be unavoidably necessary. Bit
the Noble Earl (of Liverpool) talked of the inmate-
niencies of delay. Brallowed the pen incostreniescies
which attended every delay of this process. but how
much less that inconvenience was that what would

ari'e from persevering ervoneonsly in a coarse which
all sides admitted to he otjertionable--which its
warmest friends deelareld was on he taken only bseanse

gency of the case.
At ten minutes before two. hr order of the House,
'lle Counsel were called in. • The large folding doom
were thew thrown open, and Mr. Brougham, M. Des-
man, Dr. Lushington, Mr. it illiams, Mr. Wyatt, and
blether Learned Counsel entered, and took their *WI
'llincat the desk on the right-band side of the inclosed
spare immediately in trout of the bar. His Majesty's
Attorney and Solicitor-tieneral, and four other Learned
.Oentlettsen, with Mr. Maple, Solicitor to the Treasury,
entered from the side doer, and placed themselves ea
the opposite side of the bur.
The Loan CIIAIUMLLOR baring put the questions.
whether it was their lawdshiFs' pleasure that her Ma-
jesty's Utmost' should be called in ?
' The Dab* of HAMILTON rose to inquire under what
lostructimse, cod by whose order, his Majesty's Asz
lorney-Otmeril appeared at their Lordships' Bar ?
The MIIIIIIIIRV-011LNIMAL 'Ailed, that an Order of
that Hones had been served upon him, from which
udder it appeared that Counsel would be allowed to
be bead is the course of the Bill before the serous'
lithidhelythereof. and in obedience to that order he had
*lt It Ms ditty to attend personally, or to appoint
Visatasoljo attend, in order to produce the evidence,
ll would hereafter be produced in support of the
The Doke of Haarturou said. he bad yet to learn
ander what iaitracsioas Lis Majesty's Attorney-Denc-
' eel had protocols&
The Illtramorr4Ovraaat. repeated that in conse-
eluenee of die Order which he had received, be felt
booed either ter attend is person, or to depute
stone elate Ws Osol. As it was accessary to produce
!e%itience Lesolthips' Bar, be had taken the
'lllll, coons think *as agree to him, tamely. to *lain
front the poipaa source. He had aceorti•
'telly appflod ioliwa.Sairiokiry of State. who had tar
Vied the oarossary 4ofursaatioa.
thilobe Dube of filasitspoar said he was certainly and-
' Ous to kwtivol who was. timeproonotor upon the present
refry-100, mid if he oaduestuod She statement of the
AttertterOemstal.' Is *oared that the Secretary of
State was the plampecateo ferias. of ao, no, from some
pale* of House].
The Bari of Lossarov...iaiti, that his Majesty's
Attotory'bed taken the boat items •of obtaining infor-
elation brapplying to that Boansary of State; that
irforotsfilow•lhtt hoes sapplial sal the regular coarse
*soli W; dotal filagestplf Aillesey-tieneral should
libroaeot Veoporlihas.olle a theiraLoirdships' Bar.
WA Illelliiies-egemd the she aim, which the
WiflirWolllllolll dial ram with a view ebtakiiiM
ilelfralabeammildleientlP alidectorr...aw
'•
• SW 90.4patittehle Writ viliittioall their Lealebipi
tllt
foil :-•..My.iespik, 1 hors She
tend a' your Lordships' Bar on behalf of
the c n. I am anxious not to incur the most tit

there was no other open? The oliseinef 6f soy de-
lay which could arlee w,aild be lunch more than roan-
terbaltsiced by their arriving at a muds of proceeding!
more consistent with the principles of the Lionstitu-
don, more respected by the pnblie, and wore•ntisiae- I
tory to their Lordships' own minds. He should hardly
hear it said by any tine that no doubt existed oo the
subject. The Noble Lord on the Woolsack would
hardly assert it. His own (the Marquis of Lanoline:es)!
doubts he would not alitqlge as worthy of any weight.
But he should nut err when he alluded to doubts of
high authorities he Might mat err, perhaps, if be
said some of the highest authorities tfor be believed
the Noble Lord on tße Woolsack would allow them to
be among the higheft.) Instead of saying that these
authorities doubted, he should rather say that they
were decidedly 6f opinion that the impossibility of
proceeding against the principal did not make it im-
possible to proceed against the areessary. The in-
quiry, whether a Bill of Palms and Penalties was the
only mode of proceeding, would be at one time or
other forced upon them, and he thought it hatter fur
them to inquire at this stage whether they could res
Here themselves from a measnee so pregnant with evil?'
The Farl of LivenroqL and Bail Haim explained.
The F.arl of CAR*APS'ON said, that though he
objected to the prat-yeller in this ease altogether,,
land would willingly al"! any measure which afford-
se a chance of putting au end to a Hill in which
be saw nothing but uoqualified mischief. It was
I said that this was not the period to revise the
course of their prociedings If this argument was
admitted as the Bill bad been bronght in an the t
mere allegation of his sditjetty's Mieistert, Ind was
now to lie pruettetied In as a *atter of necessity. l
they would he obliges, to Parry' on Bills of Pains
and Penalties at any time that his Majesty's Mipt.ol
stern chose to piopose them, With the M and
Insurmoutftable objections to Bills of Feint and- Plritel•
tits, there was Cis adekatage, that at every atoga 4;
die proceedings the dooms could reconsider its former.;
votes, and again end again terse to a diseussion of
the principle. lie could not agree with that part of
thl sentiment of his Noble Friend (Earl Utey),
if their was no other' mdde of proceeding, he
vote for the pi-tweet/int tit Bill of Pains and
ties. His Noble Frieturvilistit'd it *to be arnierstood:
that lie did so beraase was a distinet timer of
adultery. Yet it su happehed, that this diarist?, tin-
qualified charge was not to be }BOA from the begin-
ning to the end of the gill. fir should vote for the'
amendment, in the idea that there was some- remote
possibility that they might And some way of *toping
from this suomakius Bill. _

• that 1
theta& !
Passlid

..
Earl liras, in explanation, /admitted, that the pre.
amble of the Bill contained wary things which shUlild

••••••1•11Mplm•••,-

;

t

%I
4

, proposition.
trial to •
!life' Anse, . i should Make '1
_ express VT
That gout hoidehipe dial, not think 6t.litrirlillk
suggestios, to which there could be nu objection, viz.
that in calling over -the Peers, the Christian names iregst.eastitoio.of eiteseeati„. y0ui44744,
Ullly should be called,
creed intimated, that all that latitude .of ehosi
'l'he Judges having been absent about •20 minntes, shonld-he zreeerrete to • i subsequent stage st
returned to the House.
' ceedings, and that upon the qnestion for the
re.t.'ing ol_flie 1411, I should be enable,' to iiiitettus,
Chief Jnstiee AIIII4OTT said that the !louse had re-
jackal q Bill altogether. I ita lily .
ferret! to his Learned Brothers, to consider "if the -I.,_'r -4! .p.._._ . • I
;that this peps a hat now arriveu, and that hid '
of any cifieVner; which Maybe prodoeed sate
•
wife of the Mir Aipsren of ?Ise realm be violatetrby ;
a foreigner not tilting allegianee to the King, she i irfore any evidence is Ave into as to the all '
consenting to such .riolatitin, whether she was guilty those facts—lying those allegations out of feintingof _High Treason, with mi in the true coruction of the ' present, or eves ad mitting them to be true he aqi.
ri y otos!
.po all former ocean?.
Statute of pith Edward 111." and they were all of "'eat'"alr, all of
as which,
uu aifl, il. were Dess4a4l. I iset.,
opinion that she 'lid nut thereby eftnilliit High Treason. 2:n1? colour of roancanos tv atevet,—l soil
Their opinion in this case was grounded on the lan-
the principle of the Hilt, upon grounds of
ettage of the statute, which still that if a man do rio- filis
force cannot 6 Weakened or affected ley
late the wife of the King's eldest son, he was guilty of ran he offered as Ti the truth of Ilse (ego& Hy
high treason. Unle.:s !hetet'. ,re a man mold legally called upon 40 sheer, that lam seeedonad4Peereigl
be eltargrd by an indictment with high treason, which in objecting to the principle of this Bill, abblogh hat
indictment must bear in that as in all other caws, that
btllisant etehteoparnes7ewnlta ipc hmhca vet ipnrgecherla sedniet :
I . "PI"
"is.
the crime seas committed ag-aitiAt the man's duty tID
Lordships of the case of the Duke and Medal
the Crown, the wife consequently e.mld not be churt.ted in 1600. In that case it apposes Actium
,P?
as accessary to that offence. As a foreigner, not Journals, that proceedings took .....poc
owing allegiance to the Cro n tt, was not bound by the nature :—First, the Duchesst, of . spe.
local laws or Englaitil, be cetild nut be charged with titian to the 'Hoag oft fiords. not • had
committing that c ' j been brought In, PT that a copy eilittail served
her, nr even that she had
It was then ordered that the Cannsal be called in. ti lo
oliftlite intention to bring such a="lodaessuisoiouplidee
The Marquis of L.sYsitowna called the *tie:Anti of ! that she had been informed that 1110111111.
• the Kam to the situation of certain persons shoot to i had tiered • Bill, sod haaibliThe lia
appear at their Lordship's Bar which he thought de- l before the Bill was received.
served to be noticed. By a vitt. of the other House f this Petition into consideration, . as
relish, learned persons had been permitted to appear
the Bill had been tolgeellas bat not received, wig
mil Jan. 160 d. that her (}race should have pod*
at their Lordship's liar as C4tittisel for the Queen.—
she .Itetaki be beard 4. her Gemmel on tie
Their Lordships would prolothly concur in sanctioning Tuesday as to what abolimi. so object waled powielq
their pleading at their laird .I,i,.s' liar WI the present the said as
year ungsidge will ottootoo. that Om
occasion, In what lie had to say on that subject he f sel were to be heard tunicspinet rewires,_
was far front casting any retieetions on the individuals 1 have been told belle ':Illat sad a thin Wile di
to whole be had alluded. From the knots ledge he bad , itoProcticalkYliol I h Pd. Ilh_ita with alllill.
of theta by had we Jr tart that they would acquit them.' approaching
_to scorn, nt prepeutea is
selves with all dee *kilt r and propriety that timid be 1 that in hell/Mot' aar however straweil,
Imild be beard aresotitil* Ant real e( et
either ezpeeteilae desired. 11, roust, however, rewind t Kin, ~„4 penalties. .caret tow a to. b
the House, that it was wily possible for them to ap- , against the eroticism adds Bill air eyes aphe
pear at their Lordships' liar by virtually withdrawing first reading of the Bill, let the decision of Li
thearseiret fru*, that tautly of which they formed an I ships has precluded me floe asking what w
inherent part, aid in which they represented bodies have been vrarunili bf_Proet'dell la ,
who had as good a right to. be represented in Perlis- Low do I no* d? Tito Duchess of N
scent as any other in the nation, and who, by the err- be recollected. was heard over and oveTlpht.
rangement to which be referred, were left unrepre- was heard apinst receiving the Bill. she ew '
against the first reading of the Bill, and ohs we
sensed. He -*hiked to submit to the House the pro- heard on the second reading upon the poise f
priety of talking it understood that they only sanuit- I pie. •nil'spost the point of •erideace. The
tett to each a deparntre from the established practice Ito whirls I would refer. if I an sot atiomor
of Parliament in consideration of the particular ewer- ling your Lordships,:sra that of &nigh'
1169:4. ,nd - -.1 Ass' , ease is ir

_,, and Lord gniltees's _
the Duchess of Norfolk, end that of Lard is
both cases of divorce. I regret, and it is with
reluctance that I am compelled to make this ella
in passing upon the Report made a Cesnwilletsfp-
-17,60z
Lordships. I regret that that W ewe 10
ee
'aware of these cases, and that they ens WIWI
tarn to those pages of lholusroals whieh ewe •.•
man to the matter of iequiry. Lisle et wilassew,k4
he found were orderoito Ise furnished to the
against whom Ole preceediep were inellieted.
he told, perhaps, that the Moped of the CcoollN
fen only to the BIM of Tilts and Patoehlee, Mb
these are cases of divoree. In two mom bills.%
which this objection does not mit aid WO
not biscuit; an the Report. a list WI
lowed. It is now too late to a&
Clive; what I have shown, I shps vs
dented by precedent in asking, bet 11t/s1 IT.
ships will allow me to pray to htna—t MINI
the proceeding against the princi NI
Her Majesty's•Commel bale.rlai-741•001,111110
dran-, Mr. Brougham, as is Itillalt Mini air
and then returned to.sha Bar.
The Earl of Lerestruha said the reipit4ol.
would be to call spod Ille Ifteery's AlNferrs""
teepee the cue by producing evidence Mb* be
ships' Bar, and then In atill 1110011 ships'
part of her Majesty, to snifter the use by =mi.—.
int to repel the evidenie, lei over and ihrAlit
object. if they thought 64 isshe.principle of the ,
'lbis would be the regalia: course of peemaselsi; 11l
if he understood the applicatise of the Oeuesti, it'.
to be heard upon the priatelpie of the lIIIIr
lastly of the Bill, or assamosi the scats P"
*de good. Se could not Yip thieking Oast O'
an inconvasient stage of the proceeding Willi °
application, but he should gill yo take Await'
Noble Lords opposite upon she quweilot hmis" WI
any decided o, ioion spit it,
After a short pasf..ibiraD Cnancess'
that unless some Mobil joie pads a e
torney General must of coarse *-
to the modern oeuesto6'
I. discuss the principle'
was gone lute. The roafitirsainibis was es-- A. b.P.
game if the facts Were vitt *OW, there wadi 11'1
oftesion to go into the prieuilsk 811.11 got
Lord KearYllft said, Ow. dory PhAlra Lowe
as he did, even if all the fartedibrimi sektil_riii
jesty were pr.nrell, this,plll clegpat poi to pies
3.1.
Meese would harrgreataMmiluko4ll"l"hstetdeli
,if any argasswer soar le hoetight
would avert 4ese paled& ' !WI
shot to wkatewer 401111, •
, the Mill ought: mass"
• s lae tlisallit
era,thetatinush *PIO°
Y he lake
Tferlpar
tilassrliseg st the i • en
and he should move, therefore, that
' . fie
!,,,
lowed to preens'.

ittimakir

1
• ' . . mi.".
.Tir . .'.. I •
1 - ••• • - . '
10 . •; i ;:s . ;j1 I iii . r
ntasekellfuitn,atet.rar_nnyptoi.nrgyotuhris2.o;rodusrt,hip.7mayor
4ieioters,vii.
L lOW •
wish to he stopped the
, r ; / •
E.:vivo:o4l4l ours co .ii•U II . ire lif ',pa in 6 o' - v - . Wed into i , nil 'to
and I certainly Ilso-fusclies. U. au not in faii..w4gozsg jams, Llie_tis_of ejsagsgjajagli,usang jost_Avi Lilo iuc dr made aar„.::.
matrimony. What, 'then, was every , Divorec Bill should be. Brit there alfrar:o to—AirCtliat to be interrupting your Lordships. Mylliell" I. 4
but in some degree a contract-Aim' lb thef AY p that IcititiAthe Attorney-tteneral, does not appear-to k ~,,,"1"40
tho lewd) .What was it but purshiliasoat ioAkted fat and insliatiatApiLitaiLlriiiikris-sist
iPlllid 41,4ht(ile,,Illowever indiscreetly.
....
... zaki_isurbajaiseby be attends here. He .-: 't
"Tn.'. '
an act whirl, the law did not expressly derive to be The guestipiN rio thfp ppt un sr rry s amen - that a notincifion has been set. -"' hil
crii&iial ? Yet the House did pass such inns, hating( mint ; al d(flaidn'ejai-etillitd*r; but the demand tea your Lordships, but in what capacity h
zeit.,retu,n,beerAtafffiLit4iewevretmem,Letey
1., • illt
always to the evidence, and this BM also they • . -vrivhdrasent and Ihromostslosbot was agreed to. Lordships' lisr, does not very distinct! '
.
Aot pass, except oh stifficiebt evidence. tie *did not' tided' Justice Aerate, ,for himself and the other
copjaciiv in isfltlelr be irttendscherZiererandegliestimy
strewn to say that there was not a great tlidereare bed Jtt'Ort, prayed lest* to withdraw to deliberate ow the
trteen ordinary Divorce Bills and this Bill. lint not. question referred to eitfoin. Friends have the honour of stlentlitg at
as tot his question ; indeed, his arguntent was strength-1 During the absence of the Jell„ es, the Earl of Lttalt- ships' Barogiowedy and clearly am behoille:
erred by the silifereece. The pregent Bill had a rabil. root. ruse to suggest. that to-morrow, or at least der- i The last time thld the honour of stamliaghsga
lie character ; it was not on accost's' of injury •to an i inn the eishoequent ismer the proceedings, some mode and in this dimwit', your Lordships deny
hll% idual, but on account of Nun? to the stale that might lie devised ,of si+nring attendance without the to delay hearing, till a snhsequent stare-wre VI
the Bill was to be passed. This, therefore, *made his delay of ciltiox over the name'. One mode that icend'eargisso the
urarrouled:r. arguments
sw, healef:sild luans4iy
arguments the stronger, for if they would lay that obey occurred to him was, that every Peer on entering the principle ierbi Bill. LiPy the ordeerraoftioL,'
wools! deerade one individual for toe.wthe of *latostiter. Douse, should write his name, and the time he entered. on the 6 A 411 July, her *Neal's Counsel
how ••h the rather should they dolt for the sake stT Lord alto.L.tyis said,, the practice of calling °ter to i ed, that in the.oheetwatious which th woh
the State If the question were, flowerer, stately. tele names was the most usual and regular. mitred to make, they would be so .sksb,
referred to the Judges for the satisfaction of the Mune: 'The Earl of Li vsapoot, sonic time after said, though:, Proceeding' .pas the Bill whisk med,sin
as to the re4-nlarity of its proceedings. be should boil, an ohjeetiots had been Made to his former propositioes
4711.' Lordships4'ill 4*-611 ag.
no objection to it, nor should he have the lez:st delicacy it was sh ota;crial to site time, that he should ritakeli otir htdw,.7 ,r,r_. °et' that I then vev"
ii t. ........e.......:,._ ..%4 .__. al6 ea. 'P."l.ll.l'' ".te exPrng tr! letteatsos.