The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-08-25 00:00:00

is, the Field, and SI ONE,' di..d on the Seafold.'

you?--The Captaiu navigates the ship without me,
but merlin /I the orders from me ; but when 1 trai not
present he could not receive these orders.
If entered by you, would not the same thing hap-
.pea ?—1 leg the ship at Manfredonia to go to Reggio,
where she was to discharge her cargo, after having
arrived there. I here learnt that the ship had sold
her cargo at five carliui less per bushel. than 1 ex-
pected.
Mr. WILLIAMS.—I suppose you have now made a
more profitable voyage to this country ?—Qmerie.
If you had not come to England, do you mean to
gay that it would have made any difference as to the
sale of the cargo ?—Yes ; for had I not set out 1 had
continued my commercial affairs; for I left iny coun-
try at the time the harvest coismenced—and, secondly,
I advanced money to buy elan at Maufrednnie, by
witch I mig
fly
have gained es siaerseletafTB litve
ted for a loss of .11.4 hrhich 1 is-
mer' in 1919. •
Kosted
,* ring sp.iken only of the voyage, explain if you
Cana how eclaing to England makes any difference as
to the profit or loos of that voyage ?--Yes ; I had or-
dered the Cnptain nut to sell the corn for less than 24
earlini per bushel, and he, when be heard I went fur
England, took upon himself, after his arrival at Reg-
gio, to sell the cargo at 21 carlini per bushel. Since
my arrival in England I have heard corn has risen to
ifi and even to 50 earlini per bushel.
Do you mean to say that your presence in Italy af-
lees the price of corn? (Order, order! f the Peers.)
' `Jr. WILLIAMS assured the House that he was pro-
ceeding according to the rigid practice of all Courts
were the Judges of the laud presided. Their Lord-
ship; must excuse him if he erred in the course he
was pursuing, as he did not perfectly understand the
rause of the disapprobation then expressed.
the Marquis of DOWNSIIISE addressed the House
in a tone not quite audible below the Ilir. Ile en-
treated their Lordships to weigh well the importance
of the case on which they were sitting in judgment. It
was a case in which the dignity and honour of the
House and of the coentry were deeply involved, and
he thought it of the highest moment that the whole of
their proceedings should be marked with the utmost
attention to the evidence off both sidec—(Hear, hear.)
Lord LITIMPOOL entirely concurred with the senti-
ments expressed by the Noble 11arquis. Ile thought
it would be the more correct course for Noble Lords to
state their objections, rather than join in general ex-
pressions of their feelings, which lie was sore could
only arise from the circumstance of many Noble Lords
being unused to official proceedings ; hut he should
certainly recommend them to keep as lt command
Mt passible over the expression of their feelings.
Cross-exatiinntion resumed.
,001- Cseessii• issidnitselseyed your orders, thee
is Itttitte of the loss ?=This disobeilielier would not'
have happened had I not leg. He teas, suffered himself'
to be deceived.

" lint has
you not given orders to him ?—Yes; hr dig-
oheyesl these orders ; hr dill so when hr learned I set
out for I would have fo . it those losses.
Do you an to say that at the tint,' you made the
It:lT:tin with the Minister for 101111tIollirs you foresaw
what has happened since ?—1 have always foreseen an
evil; and because I foresaw, I did no: wish to come, as
Dell from my health as my interest.
Dow far i. !leggin from Naples ?-1711 miles in a di-
rect line; by a rircititnus rout, it is :WO.
Now long since you saw thriano Paourzo, the mate of
the vessel ?

The AvzottNev IleNen ‘t. said it was in evidence he
tt•as pilot and not mate.
The last time I saw him wag herr in Lon.lon.
That is as to place, say oin•n?—Two days ago.
Not ye.tertlav hate not !teen him before I saa•
him here for months. _

That is not the answer to my question. Say the slay,
the hone, the minute when you saw him last
aifht Ire supped together, we slept together, not ill the
same bed hut in adjoining rooms.
[lid you not bre:ski:l4 together this taunting ?—On
the contrary, I took coffee with him this morning.
Mr. W Lusts's—Not on the contrary. Hid rot hotel
any ronyeraation with him as to what Patorza said yes-
ter.day ?—l'aturzo would not tell, nor will I what I ails
I obliged to say in this esium.
Doi you inquire what Patnrro said ?—No.
What do you mean by saying Pattatzu would not tell
—because f told hint to tell the plain truth, as I come
to this place to say the plain troth, on my oath.
How ran yon say Patorro.would no: tell, sinless you
asked him ?—1 have said that he would not, but I meant
it cannot be told.
Did any person tell you not to speak about it to Ps-
[UM ?-IVO ; 1 have told Patting" uf my on 0 ;Accord.
That is, " Mind, Paturso, do not say a word about
it to me ?"—This is very natural ; for to tell what takes
place here is not honotarable or creditable.
Had you no sort of curiosity to know what sort sit
place this was—by what sort of men you were to be ex-
amined?--That was nothing to me.
Although yon dined yesterday and spent the evening
with Poor," and althonglt you breakfasted with him
this estornitig, as you admit, yon allege that he stated
nothing n, yon, and that you had nu conversation what.
ever with him respecting the evidenee which he deli-
vered here yesterday —Yes, for I should not think it
houourable to have any conversation with haw upon the
subject.
Had lie no curiosity to as Patnrzo what sort of per.
son the Attorney-General was, or what sort of Pelson'
they were who comeled or induced the witness and
Patna° to c4aneito England ?—No, no curiosity on the'
subject.
Was the witness ewer in this room before ?—l'es.
When iy—On Sunday last.
Who was with hint t—A Gentleman broufht bins here
In order to show him the House as a curiosity, and also
the room in which the coronatiop was to take place.
Whether was that Gentleman a Foreigner or ad Eng,-
lishman ?—An Englishman.
Did the witness know that tiestietaan's wane P—N4l..
Did lie know his person ?—Vita
Hid he see this tiesitletnao since Its camas haft Noisy?!
Had he looked about him since .Le saw. in4o tbe
House?—Not for some time.
Would he Itabw- time dame of the perrimiittatcheleilibe ?
—No, because br psew that person
Iktene. • • r . A . (41 h

PRICE SEVEN PEN ' ''t

How often hare you seen him since Sunday?—Mane
times, but always passing.
Did you see this person at dinner yesterdao—NO.
Did you see hint before you came here thisllay ?—N
When did witness arrive its this country?—U.:
hith of this month.
Was he examined before as to the erider.re Le Et-
given here to day?—He was examined before at Milas:
Was he examined since he came to England I"—Ye,
but verbally.
Who examined him ?—A Gentleman whose nan.r t.-
did not know.
Was it the same gentleman who spewed you G.'.
place ?-1-es.
Here the witness was desired Veal( behind L.:.
and point out the person if he saw him.
The witness pointed to a geatleinsaltiong the re: -
sod! concerned for the Crown (said iti be Mr. Vouch i;•t .)
Creasainiasainadod
Who came with the witness from Naples to Ecg:ar.
—A King's Messenger.
Who paid the eapenees of the journey ?—The King'.
Messenger.
Did be see Colonel Browne before he left Italy 14
come here?—Yes, he saw the Colonel at Milan.
Was he examined there respecting the evidence
he delivered here?—Yes; not however upon his jourrey
here, but in December last, as he said before.
When lie was examined at Milan, was Colonel Br or e
preseut ?—Yes.
Were Lis depositions set dolt u in writing ?—He lie
•
lieved so.
Did he swear to these •lepositiofis?—No. Ile did c
swear, but be put his tissue to the end of the paper.
Were these depositions made and subscribed in pr:.
settee of Colonel Browne and Utrewarerte, tl,c haler, ,
—Yes.
Did be see Beremacarte, the lawyer, upon his lately
passing through Milan, at the same time that he sa.i-
Col. Browne ?--No.
Did he see this lawr since December last ?---No.
Did lie not, upon bring examined at Milan, see any
other ps rson but Cultism, Browne and Bereinacarte?--
Nu.
Dial he mean, that, upon any examination upon the
60+41 sal the Princess of Wales, hr saw r.o other les.
s..n ?—Yes, he saw no other persons ha Col. Browne
and Bereniacarte.
On lately passing through Milan, did witness see no
01,4` on this subject but Colonel lirawne?—No.
Were the depositions which the witness made at Milan
io December shewn him by Colonel Browse, when lie
la ely saw the Colonel at Milan
;Nor any papers at all upon this subject?—No.
Had he never seen those depositions since Decembsr
last?--No, lie bail not seen those depositions Nance
be subscribed them in December, not even up to the
present moment.
Be examined by the SOLICITOI-GRNER AL.
The witness had said that lie was allowed a certs'n
compens viers for his attendance upon this occasion, said
lie wislist to ask him whether, considering loss so
time and absence front b..si item is owning here, the al-
lowa's., stated was, accuri;in& to the best of his judo/.
silent, more or less than a fair compensation ?--Aceord-
ing to the success (Amy trading this year, I do not think
it a sufficient compensation_
examination of Counsel having here closed,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL proposed, that some under-
standing should be established with respet•t to the exa-
mination of the present and future witnesses, after the
Counsel should have closest their interrogatories. tie
meant that any Noble Lord who might have any quos-
times to put, should put those questions its socressien,
and that when one Noble Lord had done, another !should
offer; but no Noble Lord should a second time offer to
put any question, unless upon a special occasion. Such'
an understanding or arrangement he recommended to
their Lordships, with a viewso prevent the recurrence of
other ineonreitiencies or intcaruptions which were wit-
nessed yesterday.
Earl Burt concurred in the propriety of the under-
standing proposed by the Nol•le Lord ; still, however.
reserving the right of any Noble Lord to put any special
question which might occur to him. He had, he said,
row to pot a few questions to the witness.
What was paid to witness hy the Princess of Wide*
for the nie of his ship, while that ship was in the service
of her Itoyel Highness :—sis•vemlauitdred and fifty dol-
lars a month, and all the expenses.
Witness hail stared, that after the tent uron decle was
closed, the Princess and /Jerrold remained there all
nizltt. Ile wished to knew whether any other persod
IVAI in the teat with them ?•--No.
flow slid he know that Besgazni remained in this tent
all night :%-slieratise when the tent was cloned at night,
Bcrs•snil remained tinder it with the Princess.
The witness was understood to have said, that lie yid
lleieatni in the tent at night, and that he saw him there
a•zaiti next morning.--Did be ever see Bergami within
the itits•rtuetliate time ?—No.
W.is there any communication between the tent anal
any other part of the ship without going on aleck;---
Yes : there was a rOtatilallitatiall with the tent by a ',Al-
der which led flown into the dining-room.
Windt pas-ible fair Bergatiii M eng.tinte tw deans
below by this communii ation without the knowledge of
the witness ?•-lt was possible fur hits to go through this
passage, althouels it was small. It.; he did not know
that Bergami did so.
By Lori Et.tetteueovon•—Durieg this voyage fr .rn
Jaffa to Terrachina was any fel ever prepare.' for Bee-
gum' down Lelow?—Yes; be remembered that in a in
bad weethir Bergsmii was obliged to to down below.
Whelk the weather obliged him them to go below, cad
'be Princes. oo below likewise?—Yes; the Pritscess awl
Bergsma went down together.
alt as a bed prepared for Berguni in the alining-room.
or any where under deck, while the Prince's eccupkd
the tent on deck?—No.
By Lord ftf/SERERRT—In bloohig weather by whoops
w. .s the light taken down to the cabin?—die believed it
was generally taken down by eithertileodore or Carlini.
By Lord At•entssio—Witness had said, that he heal
reverved 750 dollars per mouth for the use of the ship—
did that allowance comprehend all the expenses of the
voyage ?—1 have much to say upon this particular point/
What was it particular which the-witness bail to se; r•s--
I agreed to receive 750 dollars per month, certain. Ball
when we take royal persons oa board, no tram more to
ascertain profits!. Ups. this elwailen, howther. I Las
disappointed ins my espectatious. I therefore made :
Miro looser deinaid fee suispintss rien eireOsiotiei Brown
and alms to the British Gewenuomm. Thus they becalms
miquelmtml time 1- sat what' aut. •• • •-1
Was the suoi whieli he 'seethe/ Mit ilillirls he was to
be allowed ter the *spume of menifyiting the ship tend
few paying the baritone dues X.abhl crew ronsiseeti of
'122 persons, and allowing tub; Mir wltk.aindia• .10,

‘)

dollars a-month, that woeid prod:ice 220 dollars. The
&easut., too, hosing beer iterile, I had much more than
usual to pay for prosisiotis. There were besides the
wr.r and tear of the ship. with the expence of sails and
rigging, which sails and rigging it was nercessary to
have in the best state, so as to keep the vessel tight, as
we had a royal passenger on board. The vessel itself
vest ItiAno dollars, and it ronid not be insured at less
than one per cent. Taking. then, all those expetwes to-
gether. he apprehended it ;toad be found that hardly
any thing would remain out of the 750 dollars pe-
nsonth.
By the Marquis of Lansoowyt —ln consequence of
the disappointment which the witness said he had ex-
perienced as to his expence or expected remuneration
cn bis voyage, did he ever make any application to the
Princess, or ant agent acting for her:—No. Ile dfd
not wake any such application. After he was dismissed
by the Princess, he received a certificate of his good
conduct from her Royal Highness, and he did not
_get
the compenswion which he expected on account of Ber-
lianti, who was angry with him, because he would not
carry them to Vetter. At his departure from ('andia,
cdrinandeit, and the Princess commanded what-
.-r Bergaml commanded, that he should proceed to
But after .they to err some time at sea, the
wind blew strongly from the north. He had 44 persons
aro 9 horses on board, aid his stock of water was nearly
at an end. These circumstances he stated to then'.
They would not go to the Norm nor would they return
to C.:ndia : therefore it was determined to sail fur Si-
113v. Of Sicily, however, they lost sight, and therefore
they proceeded to Naples. But on their arrival at Naples,
Bergami, who had promised witness a present of 6.000
doLars, told him that he should have no present what-
ever, because hr did not sail to Venice as he had Mtn*
manded. In consequence of this disappointment. nit-
res.; conceiving that he had been in the F.oglish service,
as Le had the honour to hoist the English flag while he
kid the Princess on board, appiied to the English flo-
wer/It:tent for remuneration. This application was made
arotio,ll a memorial presented by his Ambassador,
Cour; Gardolphi, and through this tueinorial lie believed
the Ensiisb tiovernment became acquainted with the
tact that he was the lientleman who had taken them to
sea.

Did he recollect that while the Princess and Dergami
were on deck, upon any occasion, he, on any pretence,
di =red any part of his crew to withdraw from that part
vt the deck where the Princess and Bergatni happened
to i,r?—He did not remember : he did not exactly know.
If the witness desired any part of his crew to withdrier
Cruz say part of the deck upon one pretendor another,
:t possible that he should not remember it ?—No.
I cmierstand it now. Once J remember to hare seen
tt:e Ptincrits and Remand in a particular situation J
desired try ma:o., Gaetano, to withdraw. because he was
a yornig :nu), and because l did not think that situation
was decent or proper for him to see.
At the Voir hr ordered lisetano to withdraw was there
cry other person near that part of the dick where the
Prireess and Bereami were —Yes, hat he divided those
who were walking about there, sending some one way
sad some another.

Vas it to be understood that he ordered all to with-
draw ?—Yes.

Who remained then on deck 7.—None but the Princess
and fiergand.
Did hy recollect any one in particular excep►ing the
mate, whom he so desired to withdraw?—He desired all
ent,ept Schiarani, who always. he thought, remained on
deck it order to receive the Princess's entnniands.

Sthiarani then did not withdraw?—No, ho did not.
By a Lord whose name we could not learn.—When
the tell: upon deck was shot, did Victorine remain within
it?—We cortri rot precis 1y collect this unmet, hot we I
understood him to reply in the affirmative, aeeuriling to
Cis belief.

After the tent was dosed. n• 34 the hatchway npon the
pas•age leads, • to the dining room dosed also, an as to
preret.t -.tsy person from going up or down through
that pass•ige, het the Princess and Beigatiii i—He could
rot ><x) whether this hatchway was left open; but this
ke coilli say, tlist when the tent was opened in the
Inernirg. he always saw that the hatchway was closed.
By L.rsi Orrono— Whether in consegnenee of the
retuned which witness had presented to the hnglish
Goveremert,app:ving for a present, he had received any
present?—No. he had received nothing; his Ambassador
who presented that memorial and Colonel Browne also,
to whom he mentioned the memorial, had toll him to
come to Lcudor, and see whether he could get any
thing.
Br the Earl of DoNot•citstoer.—The witness had
stated,- that when the Princess and Bergami were on
board, he had desired his mate to retire. Did he recol-
lect one occasion when he gave the mate that order, that
the Princess anti Bergarni were sitting together upon a
gne ?
Mr. Bnoecti•st expressed his objection to this, which
hs conceived a lending question.
Lord ilostoccnoone said, that if the question were
deemed improper, he would not press it.
Mr. Beoconam suggested to the Noble Lord the pro-
priety of dividing the question.
Examination resumed.
In what situation were the Princess and Bergami at
the time the witness ordered his mate to retire from the
deck ?—liergaini was sitting upon a gun, and the Prin-
cess was sitting upon his knees.
Was that the occasion upon which the witness sent
away his mate ?—Also upon that occasion. But when-
ever he saw his mate or others of his crew stand looking
at inch things, be always sent them away—some one
wa and some another. •
(Pere there was a cry of "withdraw, withdraw."]
y Lord LAUDERDALX. The witness said that he had
retell-ea a certificate of good conduct from the Primes'.
He wished to know whether the witness could produce
that certificate?
By the LORD Cuamest.ton—Where did yon twelve
that certificate?—At Villa d'Este, where I went for it
from Genoa.
Whether did yon receive it from the Princess herself,
or from any other person?-1 received it from the Prin-
cess herself, who wrote and signed it in my presence.
It was proposed to translate this certificate ; hut it was
read in the Italian, in which it was written. It was
dated Pills d'Estr, Oct. 1616, and it stated in substance,
that the witness was a skilful industrious man. A copy
of' it was ordered to he inserted in the evidence.
By Lord LAUDISPALIL—The witness bad stated that
Ice was ordered to let down the curtains of the tent. Did
be receive any such order when the Princess and Ber-
gson were u he said sitting upon the gun ?
The Interpreter bare suggested to the Lords the ex-
pliency of dividing any question that was long, in
order that a witness', intellect esieht not be embarrassed.
Whether an order to let down the canvas of the tent
was given to witness at the time the Princess and Ber-
genii were sitting on the gun in the manner which he
bad described ?-1 es, but this circumstance happened
on more than one occasion.
Mr Baocastast begged to make one remark (Order !
•
•t!)
Sou etintinue on deck after the curtains of the
teat ware let down T—lio, he did sot remain there. For
somethoes he west to the bowsprit, sometimes to the
cabin, and sometimes to the Rua room.
Question by Mr. WILLIANII.--Wailliteral 111 the MIA
si gang every night to the diniaresom I—No ihe was
mot in dto habit or ft *Mag.

THE

the witt.ess was then et tiered to withdraw.
_ Mr. BROLOA NI rikprtvied a wish that the nest witness,
Theodore Majoeci, turgid be re-tilled. as he had three
or four questions to put to him. lie had nu objection
to kate that the first questimt he should ask was, whe-
ther the witness was t Bristol at any time during the
last v..ar
--The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought that the best method
I for tote House to adopt in cases of this nature, was to be
goretoed by the opinion of the Noble Lord on the Wool-
sack. reserviug always to themselves the right of deter-
mining otherwise whets that opinion did not agree with
their own.
'Fite Loan l'il INCFI.I.OII observed, with respect to the
application before their Lordships, that the House would
of course he governed by its own sense of justice. upon
hearing the groptul on which the se-examination was
demanded. It would also be .1 question for their Lord-
ships; whether they woubl ailow that further examination
to 'Le taken piece-meal. The Learned Counsel (Ir.
Brongbatn) would agree with him that it was at least a
very unusual mode of proceeding.
Sir. BROCOIIAM admitted that it was out of the
ordinary course, but he would pledge himself nut to ask
for the recal of same witness again, except be should
and it necessary to du so on the opening of the defence.
; lf their Lordships wished, he had no objertion to state
1 the object for which he made the request at present.
The Loan Co sacrum's thought that upon such a
condition their Lordships might agree to the request.
i Theodore Alajocci was then called in, and on ial.ing
his place at the Bar addressed a few words to their borit.
' ships, which the Interpreter explained as follows :—The
witness bets to ash a favour of your Lordships. It le
this, that if you see any thing false in Isis examination he
will lay down his heat—(Laughter.)
1 Mr.•111tOl'611.1O1 thee, suggested the following ques-
tion.. widest were put by the Lord Chancellor t—
i ' W:is lie at Bristol last year. or in the course of the
' present volt ?—lie does not know Bristol.
Was lie at tiionces!er ...—He knows Illotieester very
well.

Was he in the service of a gentleman of the name 4'l
Hyatt in Gloucester ?—Yes.
Did he ever declare to any person that the Princess of
Wales was a most excellent woman ?—Yes; his worsts
were " a good woman."
Did he declare Abe. the conduct of the Princess of
Wales o as highly becoming ?—lie always said she was a
good woman, .but that she was surrounded by trritaillo.
Did hr say that she was a prudent person, and that he
had never Awned any thing improper in her conduct ?
--Be does not remember at all whether he had said so.
Did he ever say that the Princess had always behaved
herself with propriety ?—That he has never said.
Does he remember a gentleman of the nitric of William
Hughes at Gloucester or at Bristol ?—.V.5 rni riror4g,.
Does be know any !servos of the name of William
(Inviter ?—He may, tint he doe: not know his name.
Does he know any person who is a clerk at the !lank
of Messrs. Turner at ttiouces:er ?—He does not know the
name of any Banker.
Had he any conversation with any Baniter's Clerk at
Gloucester ?—.Von rieortA.
Did he ever complain to any person at Gloucester that
Bergami hail kept any of the servants' wages fa mu them ?
—Yes.
To whom did he make that complaint of liergami ?
He tines not remember precisely, but he sloes remember
that Mr. Hyatt asked him why he left the service of the
Princess, and that he had answered him so. lie return,—
bets having aided, that after his warn front a lung voy-
age Bergatiti wanted to lower his wages.
Did he ever say the same thing to any body but
Hyatt ?--Nen mai rieerelo.
Does he renumber Mrs. Adams, the mother of Mrs.
Hyatt
Does he remember Mrs. lloglies, the housekeeper of
Mrs. Adams ?—lle remembers there nag a woman who
did that businesa in the house, but does not know if that
was her name.
Had the housekeeper a son oho was a clerk in the
Bank ?—lie rettiettlhPrs that he wise in the Bank.
Did be ever tell the son of the housiskeeper the eh-
eumatauce respecting Berge:26's conduct with regard to
the wages ?—lle does not remember precisely whether
he complained to him or not.
Did he ever tell that young Imo, that the Princess of
Wales was an excellent prurient woman, and that be
never hail seen any thing improper hiller conduct?—
Non sosi rirordo.
The SOLICITOR-fir vr.a‘t. observed, that Mr.
Brougham had exceeded the four questions which he
proposed to ask the witness.
Mr. Bnocustast admitted directly that he had, hut ap-
pealed to their Lordships whether they would stop him
for such a reason ? Pies o( "go on—go on "]
Did he ever represent to loin that the Princess of
Wales, as far as he had seen, bad always behaved in the
most proper manner ?—.Yon icordu.
Did he ever travel in the stage coach from Gloucester
to Bristol, or to any other place?—lie remembers haring
travelled from Gloucester to London.
Did he ever make any other journey than from Glou-
cester to London ?—Non rwi rirordo.
Did he represent her Royal Highness to any parson
in a stage coach as having behaved herself very pru-
dently ?—Non mi rieorrio.
Dia he represent her to any person in a stage coach
as a much injured woman?—That hr sloes nut remem-
ber any more than the rest.
Dill he represent to a reason in a stage coach or else-
where, that he was applied to to swear against her
Royal Highness ?—What he reutertilwrs of these things
is, that be never spoke these things at any place.
The question being repeated, the witness seemed Rot
to understand it. Several attempts were made to put
the question in a shape intelligible to his comprehen-
sion. At length the following produced a distinct as-
-wirer:
Did he ever say to any person in England, that he,
was applied to to give an account respecting the Prin-
cess of Wales upon oath ?—No.
Mr. BROCOliaat said, that lie did not mean to ask
whether he was so applied to, bin whether he hail said
to any person that such an application was made to
him?
The Sottcyroa-Gestenas here interfered, and ob-
served, that he had always understood it to be a rule
in every Court of Law (and by those rules the masts
nation of witnesses in this case was regulated), that
when a question was put, with the view of gaining an
answer, in order to contradict it, the name of the per-
son alluded to should be mentioned.
Mr. BROVOII.OI said with great submission to the
House. that the rule laid down by the Attorney-Oe-
neral should be attended to as far as circumstances
would admit. yet in some cases it was necessary to dia.
pane with it.
Mr. SOLICITO.I.OII4IIRA At. apprehended that the
Learned Gentleman was unacquainted with the rules of

practice in this respect.
Mr. BIROUGRAM exposed a wish that his Leaned
!Mond, la addielon to his kaawle,ip of the rules of
Court, had also karat am to into.. opt his adversary
until lie had heard the whole of his artaineat. 110
had lataaded, if allowed w proceed, t• han aseatloi-
, ad tits mote aad plea.
I The Lima CALOMILLOt said, he ad au ham Use

k

k.

not
t he

rules of the Court of King's Bendel but he ci
help thinking that an honest witness night sic
did not remember a conversations yet on being re• ,
minded of the name of the person with whom it was
held, might recover his memory. He could net say what
the practice was at Nisi Prier, but he thought it would
he better to niettion the name.
Mr. 11.RocuitAX said, he had no objection to mention
the name; but he wished to protest against the parti-
cularity to which the Solicitor-Geneial was anxious to
nmrowAhe rule.
ThmrsamarniSitien %cis resunied.
Did-Ilwitwifhess ever say to Mr. Johnson in the stage-
thilk strnstnpplierl to to be a witness against the
Princess or Waltar.—He swears that he does not know
thatimme. i• 1.
Did beeves sty oto tiny person at any place, that he had
been applied to to be a witness against the Princess of
Wales, or words to that effect ?-I\ever.
Did you ever say in a stage-coach to Mr. Johnson,
that urge offers bad been made to you fur giving evi-
dence, bison oath, against the Princess of IVales ?
The SoLiCITOR-011NERAL—Will your Lordships allow
use to observe (order, order!)—
The Interpreter had considerable difficulty in making
the witness comprehend this question. At length the
witness replied, with vehement gesticulation, " I will
lay down my life (Jo meitru he urea testa) if I ever held
inch discourse to any body concerning an oath.
Did you ever hold any discourse with any person about
ying evidence, upon oath, against the Princess of
W ales at any time, any where?
Mr. Baoccliam said, that the object of the question
wasjo ascertain whether the witness had ever held such
trftrsation with Mr. Johnson, or any body else.
The Loan Caastcau.oa understood the witness to
say, that he did not with Mr. Johnson or any body else.
BROUGH %II repeated the question.
Did you ever say to Mr. Johnson—The witness in-
terrupted the interpreter—lf I do not even know the
anew of Mr. Johnson, how could I bold any discourse
with him ?
The question was repeated.
Did you ever say to Mr. Johnson in a stage-coach,
that you hail been Awed a sum of money, or a situation
under the English government, for giving evidence
against the Princess of Wales any where ?-1 will lay
down my head if I ever held such discourse ; and I will
answer no more, because you ask use things that I never
dreamt of, and which never entered my head.
Mr. Illactrunsm begged to put sotne other questions
to the witness. Their Lordships must be aware that he
did not persist in varying the form of these questions
without good reason, and that it could not be his wish
to prolong this examination unnecessarily.
Had yon ever any conversation with Any body in a
stage-r0a..11 respecting her Royal Wellness the Princess
of Wales ?—1 have never spoken about the business of
the Princess of Wales in a stage-coach (ill wee diligence.)
Did you ever speak about the affairs of the Princess of
Wailes in the course of the journey you had in England,
at a e inn, or in any other place ?—Never about the affairs
of the Princess of Wales. I never meddled with these
discourses.
Did von ever, in a diligence or at sit inn, sa that you
expected money, or a place under the English govern.
ment, for giving evidence against her Royal Highness?
—Netter. I never said this—(inai gnesto.)
Her long were you Ic England the first time you came
neer, when von lived with Mr. Hyatt at Gloucester ?
This I cannot remember, because I have not the book in
which I made the minute.
About how many months?—.Von me rieordo.
Be-examined by the Souctron•tiaNzast..
Did tbe witness come from Vienna as a servant of Mr.
Hyatt ?—Yes Mr. Hyatt brought him to England.
• He was a servant of Mr. Hyatt at Vienna before he
came to England ?—Yes.
Lord ELLENDOROVOR.—When the witness spoke of her
Royal Highness as a prudent omen (Imo 6ntstaa donna),
did he refer to her moral character as a woman, or to her
behaviour to him as a mistress Creme podrones)!—When
there was discourse about tin' Princess of Wales, I always
said she was a prudent woman (tmonet donna), because,
if I had said otherwise, they would have fought me
land knocked me down.
s Mr. Brim-Guam observed, that in some of the ques-
tions which lie had just put to the witness, lie by no
means intended to impute to any person the offering a
place under Government to the witness. Their Lord-
ships would no doubt see that the questions had been
put with a perfectly different view.
The answer of time witness to the last question having
been read by the short-hand writer, at the desire of a
Peer,
Mr. BnounitAst observed, that ' bonne donna' had
been incorrectly translated. It did not mean a pru-
dent' but an ' excellent' woman.
Lord UNINVILLE thought the answer of the witness to
have been inaccurately rendered. He had heard nothing
of fighting or 'knocking down' in the witness's an-
swer.
Signor Spinetto, the Interpretor, said the word used
by the witness was • altareoto.' Mr. Cohan had sug-
gested that atteerare' meant 'to fight, or knock down.'
Mr. Baoconan said the Interpreter hail neglected to
translate the word 'lite.' In fact, the witness had only
said that a quarrel would have ensued.
The Interpreter admitted that the phrase meant 'to
quarrel,' but it had been accurately Enough translated
by the words lighting' and knocking down.'
'The Loan CHAPICKLLOR—It ROOM seem. then, that
you never quarrel without fighting or knocking down.
After some discussion, in whirls the Earl of Morton,
Lord Elleisborougli, and Lord Liverpool, participated,
it was agreed that the words used by the witness had
the import assigned to them by Mr. Brougham.
The next witness, Francisco Iloriolo, TM called and
examined by Mr. Pan'. He stated the place of his birth,
mail in whose service he formerly lived.
Were you at any time in the service of the Princess of
Wales ?—Ves.

In what capacity ?—That of cook.
At what time did on enter the service of the Prin-
cess ?—When her Boys' Highness cause from Naples.
I do not remember the time.
How long did you remain in the service of the Prin-
cess ?—About two years or two years and a half.
Were yon acquainted with Signor Ile►gan►i ?—Yes.
What was Bergausi when yon first knew bin, ?—lie
was in the same service as me.
Was that the service of General Pino ?—Yes.
In what capacity was Bertand in the service of Gene•
ral Ploo7—First as valet, and afterwards as courier.
flow long were you both in the service of General
Pino?—l was in the service of General Pino, and Ber-
gami in the service of the Countess Pino.
How long did witness continue in the service of Ge-
neral Pino?-1 continued till I nein into the service of
the Princess.
How long did Bergami continue in the service of the
Countess Pino?—He left before I quitted the service of
Count Pino.

Haab* was witness in the service oft'eunt Pine ?
I was la service at three different times.
Was in the service of the Countess at those
i
tires tines?—Yes. I was paid by the Count,
all
by the Coolness.
keta.slwaa it heibto yen entered the service of the
, Prints's Wales ?—I do Rot know at what tine I en.
I speed She sondes of On Prioress. bat it wit whet her
Bard Jig:taa sew fro* Venice so ebo lioreaseo lake
the lint

- r • •
•

I

Were you with the Princess at the Villa V;i:aao?—e'er_
Were you tyith the Prittrees at the Villa d'Eoe?—y..s.
Did you accompany the Princess on ker voyage to Greece?
-Yes.
Did you act se rook on that voyage!—tires. hut when ea
-4 the two ships. I did not always act as cook.

Did you return with the Princess.from Orem* to IMly
I did, but before he•r rOtarn I acted as cook fnr the Pula-re
At what place did you leave the serf ice of the Princess
At the Barons.
Why did ion leave the service of her Royal Irghzenj...
Because in consequence of what was pnt upon me by Ber.
genii. I could not stand the labour.
%VW do on mean by saying you could not stand the
labour?-1 mean that there was too ntuedslabour.
Dues the witness recollect when the Princessleft Greece'
—I do.

On the voyage to Pnlestine, does the witness recollect in
what part of the 'inhere the Princess slept ?--Gesert!ly
under a tent, sometimes below.
Where u as the tent placed f—Going to the peep.
What was the usual place where the Princess slept, in the
voyage from Jails to Italy f—Always under the tent, except
when we landed ; this was the more necessary, a we moo
board horses and sheep.
Does the witness know where Berms( slept on the TOTip
from Jaffa to (tat)?—When at Jeffs, whilst on bowl' the
pokere, I have seen him under the tent ; the tent "when
closed, the Princess and he were there.
Did the witness ever see the Princess end Berganii in 'le
morning coming oat of the tent ?—eometiases at a certka
boor, not early In the morning.
At what time In the morning was It that the witness saw
Bergasni coming ont of the tent ?--elornetimes intbrotoortir.g
ear 4, sometimes later, always to breakfast.
Is what part of the • I was site tent placed l—kt Vas
Ma. near the bowsprit.
Was it always there l—Sometimes it was taken down.
Was the tent closed up at night ?—Yes.
In what way was the tent fastened at night ?-11* tent sob
closed round end covered.
Did the vs itness ever see a light In the tent, wbea It sus
closed ?—1 have seen a light put out of the tent.
Who pet the light oat of the tent do not itntsw 3 I wile
saw the light put out of the tent; either Theoduee or impair
took it au ay.
have vou often seen Bergami is the morning coma out of
the tent ?—Several times.
It being eve o'clock. the proc•eedinp terminated for the
des.
Adjourned till to-morrow (this) morning, at ten o'euck.

THE QUEEN.
ST.ITESMAN-OFFICE, THIS DAY, Two O.AOCS.
1101.75 E OF LORDS, At... fl
LORD STEWART AND MAJOCO.
After Prayers. and previously to the calling orer the
Garter Roll of the Peers,
Lord ELLENOOROCGI begged to notice seine imputa-
tion that had been cast on Lord Stewart, now absent.
on the public sets ice, by a Morning paper, founded on
the evidence of Majocci. That witness had said, Onion
August 30, 1b14.4, on leaving the service of Marquis
Merest-316i, be went into that of Lord Swear', at
Vienna; now that was impossible, as far as date, because
he saw Lord Stewart in England at that time. This did
not establish contradictory evidence. Mijoeci absented
that be was not certain about dates ; btit although be
could not aee that it was improper to secure insportaat.
evidence regarding a momentous subject, he was per.
saaded that neither blajocci nor Lord Stewart was
capable of dishonourable conduct.—(Hear,
inent:oned the fact, having seen Lord S. in this cowry
in February, March and August, InlB ; and to show thit
the imputations on Lord Stewart were as false as Ai
were base.—(Hear, bear.)
AR.SENCE PROM INDISPOSITION.
A conversation took place as tip whetter -skews* -
Peers fur a day or two should preclude the right of retiegi
and it was ruled that a day or two being absent, would
not take away the right of voting.
CON birt.7 OF THE NEWSPAPERS.
Mr. BROUGHAM begged to state that his re-examination
of Majocci had not been founded on any letter, as had
been mentioned—it was on most important facts that had
come. to his knowledge—facts that he should be able to
prove.
The ATTORNEY ORNIRAL observed, as the newspapers
had been alluded to, hehad to complain that The Times of
this morning contained most unfounded observations en
the law-officers.
Lord LACOCRDALE cared very little about some of the
publications; as a proof of what they would say, he
was charged with receiving 134,0110 a year frona the
public when he had not one farthing.—(A laugh).
The Lord CHANCELLOR thought the papers ought to
be considered on some future occasion, what mould be
done regarding improper publication or attack ; but he
could not help observing that one print that had been
alluded to (the Peep at the Peer:) contained more Ms. -
hood than be had ever before seen collected iu one pub-
lication—(Hear).
Examination resumed.
Francisco Borillo was recalled. Having stated about
the voyage and tent,
Mr:PARK sliced how the Princess and Bergami cow
ducted themselves ton ards each other ?
Mr. BROCONAM objected to this question, bet it wu
ultimately allowed to be put.
They were arm in arm.
Have you seen then, in the kitchen at Villa d'Este
Yes.
What did they do there ?-1.11. napkin was spread for
them to rat.
lo what war diil they eat ?—She cut some pieces. sad
said to him (itergaisii) do you eat also.
Have you seen them on the Lakes ?—Yes.
Were they alone ":—Yes. Bergarni rowed.
Do you remember Stahomet ?—Yes.
What did he do in the presence of the Princess?—
(The witness made *motion.) lotsrpretor..--Hese es I
to translate that ?—(A laugh.)
Question repeated.-:—He played a part •, he rolled.
Wai the Princess there played
; she looked and
laughed. Maliornet took a " roll" in his hand, and
mole a gesticulation. 1 cannot tell what be meant. 1
do not know what be had in his head to repr.sent.
Did that exhibition take place more than once before
the Princess?—Yes; once in the kitchen, once in the
court. The Princess was at a window. _ _

Do von recollect the Princess going to Tunis ?..-.Nah
hid she go to the Court there ?—Yes.
Did you go to Bergami's bed-room that mOrlilag?-•
Yrs, about nine.
What did yon go for?—To carry some gloves. 1;c.
Did Herganti's bed appear to bare horn slept in ?—At
the moment I ram, out of the room or the Deas
d'llunwerr, I saw Bergatni come not of the Princess.*
room. 1 lifted up the curtains, and saw that his bed
was made; and silt scolded tsar,
Bow was he dressed ?—He had a sooroing geom.
lemakings, drawers. and slippers.
Be you recollect marital! at Boron ?—I do.
Who were there ?---.The people of the neighbletrbeedi
do gentlemen ; people of the middle conditico, sod of
flew rank.
By Mr. so' •citam-..Where did Ito ►c onottt is
: eight or nine days ago. I ate
1 lived with t.im 3 or 4 years.
Whets were you reamitted first on title 10111411t-r
About ft or t 3 moonlit age,
Where?-.At Milan.
By wisum P—A n Mimes.. There were 3Or 4 firPt4
men there writing. • They Beet for Ns,

IP"— •
ies re then directed to come here?—Yes.
sot roe seen them since ?—No. I have been twice
*Aiberate's, the Abbe hioneartes.
oThet was another Hendee's* there, was it Colonel
?---Tee•
iiPii-ir do yea know him?—Because I saw him at the
's. I saw loins at-Milan.
IPrt oars had you in your place ?--A liver per day,
e _m...0. of perquisites, presents, besides eating, drink-
i r.r,
,opesery thing comfortable.
Ibit bad von with the Princess ?—Every three
tobstertilapoleons. .•
gel re Vent' keep there? —Yes.
grey tineg comfortable ?—FAting and drieking,
,ta matters I honied myself.
1,1 presenn 3--A few dollars, Bergami gave him
.
50 perquisites by being cook?-1 istft them for the
(weep's, as their pay was smell.
Nike Baron overlook the accounts of the House ?
,f,K ; Se A looked over" time accounts.—(.\ laugh.)
gaga Karoo very enct 7—Yes.
ih, hotel of ship, wu your business to be on deck
e, it doe kitchen ?,—To work in the kitchen ; the kitchen
its ea desk.
now did the Prhteess sleep ?.—I do not know.
where !Dworman' i—That I know, because I went
or, for the gist's : the sleeping place was in a corner.
There were luny tables right and left, I do not know
their %hustles.•
wilat do yea have for coming here ?—Nothing ; but
trouble.
9,.,et soy hay glee you your litre per day ?—My
dErzlittr is to receive it '
while C I am away.
Rm. Lori Lrviitissot --Did Berganai'i bed appear to
Lore We slept in —No.
At I. Laisseowts—Did Mainmast play before
sobers?—lefere us many times.
Blears saw the Prowess corning from Bergsnol's
rem did she appear to be dressed ?—Yes, and combed.
By other Peers—Were you discharged ?--There were
e words ; I was told to go.
ao it year duty to take in the hreakfaat 7---I took it
saw Bergeron come out of the Princess's room.
nett was the ditty of the Turks ? -Mahomet took
of the hones; the other did nothing.
t! the King or Queen come to the Princess at Turin?
remember it.
of,
Did the Princess go and have an airing with them?—
Tic
Bras Pergarni accompanying the Princess?—Yes, be I
Bowed, but the King offered the Princess his arm. 1
Dia Bergami go in another carriage:—That I cannot
at'; there were three carriages.
llarl thieve—Were yea in General Pine's service when
Ilajocei left?—No.
Was the Queen present in the kitchen when 3laloomet
Nile the exhibition 7--Yes.
Are the beds made one way 'c'h the day, and another
(or the nighri—i know nor, mine was always made in
the same way.
By Mr. Rionanest.—Was not witness, when in .the
Princess's service, once confined to his room by a hurt
—Yes.
IK.I the Princess owe to your room to see whether
yon were taken rare of?—`he did, and Bergami.
At what hoar ?—I do not know. I was half a sleep.
Bergamni said the Princess has come to see yon. It was
day.
Was witness in hed ?—Yes.
Any one with her?--Rhe and the Baron came; they
one togyth..r.
Cries of withdraw, and the witness was then ordered
Is sithdraw.
Captain Sruttel George Peachall was then called and
essonwsi by the Attetney-Oeneral. He was Captain of
the flerinse-
Dia the Princess come on board 7—Yes.
By wboro was tlir,accompaiii,ol ?-1,441y C. Ligkisay.
DF.ifisehni, ariffneforami attended as a servant.
As a menial ?—Yes. he waited on the Princess, and
took his meals with the other menial servants.
Hid her Royal Highness dine with you?—Yes.
Was liergatni there?—Yrs, but he dined with the
ether servants.
Witme did she leave P—At Leghorn, after seven or
eirht days.
Were you again at Genoa ?--Yes, in Angmost in the
same ye:tr.
Did her Royal Highness again embark?.—Yes, in No-
ember, on board the Leviathan.

Did von sett her there ?- —Yes.
Who accompanied bee ?---Countess Oldi and Bergami
were in the carriage with ber.
Did yin vs from Omuta to Sicily?—Yes, I bad direc-
finis to receive her there. It was in December. I re-
ceived her at Sicily.
Previously to reviving her Royal Highness a second
fine, had any communication taken place ?—Yes, at
Memiva, On the morning after Capt. Brigs informed
i.e that her Royal Highness intended to have her own
table, I said, I would do all in my power to make her
tomfortable, provided she would make one sacrifice, by
not insisting that a person named Bergami should sit at
her table. -His slaty, as an officer, compelled this, as on
the former occasion, that person attended as a menial.
She desired a day to consider of it ; she then declined
aclniescence, saying, she should provide her own table,
tensing to .see witness herself.
How soon after that did her Royal Highness embark?
--A boat a month.
Who arc ,inpanied her *—Bergami, Countess Oldi,
Schiaveni. Master Austin, and a child, which 1 under-
stood to he Itscrgamili.
Wheredi.i she dine ?-11n her own cabin, not with me.
She was on 'uteri! the Clorinde three or fool. days.
The Quern's Counsel did not cross-examine this wit-
ness ; they said theta did not deem it necessary.
Lord fi :vont) (rim the gallery.—Supposing a boy
who had attended on er or on any other person, should
berme a midshipman, and afterwards a lieutenant,
would the witness deem it bid linty to refuse to sit at
table with such person ? (Some had, and cries of no, no.)
Lord Lis.Earoot. submitted whether such a question
nog ht to he pressed, he thought not.—(Hear :hear !).
eiptain Thomas Briggs sworn.
v.:minified by file ATTOR NEVOINCIRA believe
•yara are a l'aptain it, his Majesty's Navy ?—I am.
Did %nu. in BiZt, command a ship of war, the it e-
Niatha ?-1. es.
Were you at Genoa in that year ?—I was. The ship
was scat to Geooa, to convey her Royal Highness to
Sicily.
yon take her Royal Highness and suite on board
at Genoa ?—1 did._

By shorn was she accompanied when she came to
embark suite.
Of whom Jul that sprite consist ?—ller Royal High-
Sess. Beruami. Kent, tlehman, Seltavani, and several
istvapts alum awns I do not recollect.

---DO--;on it:member her Poyal Highness coming to
mobs& ?—I do.
Who came with her?—The Countess of Oldi, Ber-
genii, a child, aml 1 believe four others.
DWI her Royal Highness dine at your table?—Always.
TM Bargaisi din with her?—Always.
What arrangements were made for her accommoda-
it- • . -,/

g her Heys! Highness and suite as I considered moss-
*WV.
*ith respect so the sleeping apartments—Whore was li
bs cabin e/' 111 e Princess of Wales ?—Tise idler part of