The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-05-31 00:00:00

sTATNNEAN:

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saitUit•

latent 10 sudi a lunge for each to canvass fairly his
pan tjewgof the subject; and adept such an ulterior
dockion as *dui& conduce to the satisfaction of
:.)o.e aho Were then 'adverse parties. The Right
don. Baronet concluded as able speech, by Pa-
jirecSing his cordial assent to thy. 'notion which had
iif.
BATI;URST defendo the line of conduct
Right Iron. Friend (Mr. Peele), Mote the
i‘iimalversions of the Itrst speaker, and strongly ob.
jected to the mode adopted by • the lion. Bart. who

he would not be deterred from the calm work of legis- pelation of dud country; on the contrary he be•
Intim' by an) vulgar or intemperate clamour. [Mari] sieved, that if the Bill of ISIS had passed, they would
Be was not ili..posed to expect that at the first estab- now peroeive thi greet body. of the Catholics coming
li..hment.of the measure, it. would be received with forward to acknowledge the Inan!,er in which they
that. gratitude to which it was entitled, but the had been deluded by demagogues, and to thank the
speeches mud politics of individuals should not affect Legislature Ter what it bad done.
the dispostion of the Rouse towards the measure , Mr. ELLIOTT said, he had so often stated the
itself. lie Was for putting the Catholics in a situa- views which he entertained upon the subject then
lien which would expose then► less to be excited by i before them, that he had no intention of going into
perilous who bad taken every means of inflaming the question at any length; bet he should, as here-
their passions. Such was his feeling on the iral .tofor vote ff into the Ci

--- seenng oi. genet , for Bing into the Committee, in order
the quaeion. •It 'was the hest question. Bet now that it was taken out of the to consider the general claims of the Catholics, with.
he recollected the introduction. of a proposition of hands PION champion who had supported it under , out pledging hlonself to any particular line of con-
;t,i, kind, by producing .tu the House a series of all the difficulties of Parliamentary conflict' there •duct when in that Committee. In 1813 he had
Ils4olortittss, lint for their ennaideration, but for their :could be no doubt that it was intended as a con- ! Toted for qualifications, because he felt, from the
unqualified approval.—[ hear!]—To add to trait tethe.rneasere of. 1813.—[lear!]—.Concider- I heated prejudices and passions which .then inflamed
this inconsistenry, they were called upon to go into • Ng, therefore, the Ilon. Baronet's proposal as one Imes' minds, that there was no otherehance of suc.,
the proposed CoMmiteeei not to acquiesce in this., for unqualified concession, he was still desirous of , cess, but iq a spirit,of mutual conciliation ; and
!e ipia non of the Petitioner*, but to see how going into the Committee. lie wished to do so, in under similar circumstances he should vote exactly
far they could &Siete from it. lie was quite order to show the Catholics, in the discussion there, the same, because he believed that in so doing he
hostile th such a' course of proceeding ; for in- • what Parliament thought on that subject, and to not only served the cause he had at heart, but should
~end d tending to' coliiiflate those in whose behalf prevent them from repeating any attempt of the obtain the approbatiou of a large portion of the Oa.l
tee iiroposidots wits urged,' it' would only lead to same kind, by such an opposition, as must convince tholic body. fie lamentini, as a great error of jedg.
e,eir Nether irritation. Nor would he ever concur, them it would be utiavailing„ no. woksotisfied that meet, that their cause had been removed from the.
sissy manliere of thisdeicriptiooonstil the respect. i till the Catholics changed their conduct, so far as hands of his Right H9n. Friend ; at the same time
Oats of the Romeo Catholics shpt forward.te to prepare the minds of the people of this country he thought tile House should rise superior to anyi
...roe themselves from the thraldom of those who fur the alteration to which they looked forward, and feeling or resentment which might lead to visit the
were meeting, with an avowal of ingratitude, the in- showed a disposition to conciliation, they would errors of a few upon the interests of a community,
le position of the Legislature in the adjustment of find their cause going down "the hill.—[l/ear, hear!] *. and those interests too so largely bound op with the
isotrefelms. With respect to the argument of sects- —lf the Hon. Baronet thought he could advance the general welfare of the State.—Ukur, heat!]
natal, an extraordinary position had been taken by measure, he (Lord Castlereagh) had no objection to Sir N. oucrilintsT argued against 11195 e who
tee supporters of the motion—that securities were hirmaking the attempt,, but lie did not feel hiraself meicstaioeil, that 'listen the House went the whole
hest obtained by requiring none.—Ulcur, called upon, under ell the circumstances,, to submit length of the Catholic demandt, they would effect no-
Besides, in the Committee, quite a different propel.. apy modification, or to take any active part in the thing. •
sition et, to "be considered from that which they set cause. I Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD should vote for the
out with seeking. defence of this cause, it had , Mr. W. 1111•11.. __READ said, he concurred with. the Coasmittee, and with sentiments similar to most oft
been *Need that certain concessions, which were on • Noble Lord in his opinion that a Committee would those who had preceded.hint, sod whatever might be
ill sides admitted, could not be obtained without a be desirable, though there were many of the• propo- proposed most resembling the Bill- of 1813, was that
committal. Of this he was not quitircertallt ; but sitionsageinst which he (Mr.Whitbreed shoat! vote) ; ' which he should most approve. He lamented that
even if it were the case, the consideration should, but he must think that if the Committee were the splendid services of years were forgotten, and the
from its onset, assume the plain import it bad in granted it ought to do something else than merely to Catholic Cause would have to lament that it was in
view, atid not, lu its progress, he transformed into negative the wishes of the Catholics for unqualified other hands than those of Mr. Grattan. If that die.'
s different shape... Vicar, hear .11—The Right lion. I concession, without also doing that which might and tingoished person could find consolation in any cir-
Gent. compared the! present motion with that, of ought to be done, in behalf of our fellow subjects in cumstances which had diminished the favour with
1.813, said avgoet4 that if the• laver were deemed Ireland. The hope of qualified concession, of con. whiolt the claims of his country had been entertained .
unconeiliatoey, whet remote wee there to expect limit ce,,,ion wish such securities as were thought neces- by Parliament, he might find it in the grateful and
a different feeling wee likely at present to pervade , sary, had beets strongly nourished in his mind, after unanimous tribute which had been paid to his jodg.
the minds 4 the Petitioners? He would therefore . the proceedings of the Session of 1813, when that ment, his moderation, and his unquestioned patriot-
oppose the motion, beteg of opiuion that its edop. Bill emanated from the Committee, and when the ism: He gave his vote then for the Committee, in j
tion would only lead to a still further alienation of first clause of it was lost only by a majority of four; consistency with his former opinion, and in the hopes
time people, whose rights, as they were termed, it t from that moment he considered the principle as of better times; of those times, when the question
was 050.11,1111 to Conciliate. , "stied ; but lie now observed, with the deepest re., might again come forward under the auspices of him
Bl'..‘lllrN.O. expressed the dilrerence between gret, that the day of emancipation, instead of ap. who had before carried it so near to its consumma.!
I.is vivo of the question and that orihe lien. Baronet proachiug nearer, was, receding from their view. tion, and' fri r'whom it was yet reserved. He felt
oppo.ite (Sir J. C. gippisley); for he (Lord B.) —Why did the Noble Lord now speak with within him it was reserved to achieve a measure)
would vote for a Committee, although its that Corn- despondency upon the subject? Because things hod- which would conciliate the Irish people, which would I
minee it was possible he would oppose all the Re. occurred in Ireland which took away.. from the.. give to the Empire the best confirmation of its
solutions which had been already read to the House. friends of the Catholics, and froM the Catholics atratnifb) and to its illustrious author an imperishable
--Ellearl—The Noble Lord then proceeded to themselves, that sanguine 'Association of success fame.
semment upon the speech of his Right lion. Friend which they before entertained. For himself, he could , Mr. HUSKISSON lamented, in common with all'
(Mr. Peele), which, he contended, was built upon a set at naught all the violent and idle speeches made who had spoken on the subject, the conduct and the
s:arrow view of the question ; for, after all, what against Members' of that House; but when he found language of- the Catholics. of Ireland—conduct end
.!id it prove but the misconduct by some of the Ca- that they have defeated themselves by their conduct,he language much More calculated to. retard the attain.
:hone 'residers. So far he fully concurred, although could' not overlook, or fail to lament such conduct. ment of their object, than, the arguments of those
be thew a different conclusion from the bet, and At the same time it might be observed that the cone'swho conscientiously opposed their, claims. He
.
" . •
thopght,the quettion.,ought to be argued on its own duct of O'Connell has * 'tt
had beet' nutty the ebonld certainly, however, vete for the Co nu ee
mei its, tidpot upon' thejdArnoersi. .1 that of the atighefitiotkeraiat...l„,„,, atcatiopsiderable portion Of his Mi.
-111 Fr IMonne , out of whose hands byill kinds of exaggeration endeavoured to aggro. lies este TO rittlihrtmod ectottliaDlinft. of
lie was Omit ant , ions to' have the measure altogether vete the Protestants, as Mr. O'Connell, by exaltete- privations and be for one -V.oblct never
removed. If' ever .a cause had progressively im- ' ration, thought te inflame the Catholics; and if thi. oppose the consideration of their grievances.—At
roved by Parliamentary discussion, this ,was that Noble Lord could sit patiently and hear such lan- I the same time he wished it to be distinctly under.
question. It Would still have advanced towards that guage from the Ript Honourable Secretary, he must I stood, with reference to the Resolutions which had
c.msummation which it must finally attain, if the say that there appeared as little conciliation on one been proposed, that either on this or on any other
Cathotics hid shown any confidence to themselves, side as on the other. .But there was a Gentleman I subject, he hoped the House of Commons would '
by 'reeling ender Ike advice of that distinguished j who, in all former discussions had occupied a very ; never allow Itself to be dictated to. *'' •
Sividoet (Mt. Grattan), whose presence forbad hint j prominent part In the debate, whose name had not t Mr. GRATTA N.—Sir; eobeeted as the subject is,
to veal' as he felt, and who had so long been their; even beets mentioned that night, to his (Mr. White' I trust that the House will allow me to trouble them
neot illustrious and 'effective advocate, and whose bread's) very great surprise; not a word had been! with few tentences. Ido not wish to give a silent
racer, front the first moment he took a part in the ; said about the Pope, the terrible Pope, Bonaparte's' vote upon the question, particularly circumstanced
atis.its of lielnsel, was marked by the purest pa. ' Pope, the Pope who was to have beets met by in as lam with respect to it. I shalt tensility vote for
ttiotisin and mend rectitude, ns well as the most'
shish Pope at Ballyshannon.—[4laugh.).S-Ated why going into the Committee, on 'the principle which
erilent conslitn'innei iihertY.—[Hear!] -But cots. was that Gentleman totally forgotten ? Because he' has been so generally stated this evening ; that the
tidenee stet a plant of slow growth, and not at all had not been found what was expected; because he only thing we have at present to determine is, whe.
time. ettaemble. Ass friend to this question, he was the mere tool of Bonaparte. The course of the titer or toot the Calhalic Question shell be taken into
had el,d IA regret, that the Petit' s were without Catholics since 1813 had certainly been 4 bed one; consideretiol. Opt in giving tide ypte Sir, Iby no
the !signature of many eminent characters of the sod if any one. part of their conduct was more Meant pledge myself to the support q'f the Resole-
Cohelic Body. The Noble Lord, although pre. marked by want hf judgment than another (he spoke dons which 'my Hon: Frieod'has exhibited. Furtigeo
pared to go into the Ceinmittre, bad strung ob. without . the slightest disparagement to his Hots.l most say, that for some of those R.esolutions I can-1
jections to several of the Resolotiosts, and also to Priem% I
it was removing the Petition from the bends not vote. I beg leave to observe, in considering the
the oath, which was not of the desesiption es that In which their cause had been so loeg soectified.vvo I catholic Question, that it is not sufficient to dwell ,
framed in the former year. He was still persuaded Wear, however, ie detorinistiog upie osprely 4Zq what 'pay be strictly and absolutely ne. !
that a committal would lie salutary, tad that it would the simple question, whether they should go late • i eesserx—some regard ought to be paid to the -feelings
go one step towards the completion of the whole ; Committee, he would say eye, not because the 114)46.1 of those by whom that question is to be determined. /
measure. which was so essential to the onion of all ; illartinst had A string of prepositions to etebtuit,, hot have no hesitationin saying that I'condemn (I am Sot-
classes of the tommanity, and to the consolidation because there were concessions which might be model ry if I give offence to persona of a different lipinion), •
of the potitiehi strength of the empire. lin that Committee, that would do mesh towerdseottei- . bet I condemn the, application for' unqualified con-
Mr.BANK had never before heard any persons . holier. The army, the navy, and the her, ice ibi opi- ; cession. Thiskneoledge I have of the sentiments of
vete their •rights in this tromi manner. They said nion of those who were decidedly hostile to unqueli. this lion)se cooviocei me that such a proposition will •
that thly would give nn security to the Established ford concession, might be thrown open too them ;it not pass, When the Petitioners desire emancipation,
('lurch t but it would be impossible for the Haute,had beets said, also, they might he allowed protec. without any conditions, they desire two things—they
either nbw or at may other 'time, to grant them those ' &iota both iu the stoly and wavy ,in their ,religious desire emancipation, and then they desire that it may
stnites which they demanded,' until the Church of worship ; and were those things nothing.? Did they luot be granted, because the annexation of no condi-
&tome should entertain different opinions .0f 'those not constitute a boon which the Catholics might be (ions .mast render the grant in this. Rouse impossi. ;
.thorn it toed Heretical. Until that time should ar. hem to receive, -and which the Legislature ought talkie. I ehopiti ,therefore hate flattered the Unite...!
rive, Parliament would ndt Consent to invest thet bea.lesirons to grant ? Were they to vote for the a tics had f told Tent t4ey ,were uutided to expect a
I)rltiy with piditirld Poorer- 'Those who etrofeetedtthe Committee, like the Noble Lord, expressly for the decision in their avoui, because I know that under
i.Stablished Religion had a right to say, we cannot purpose of negativing that which all agreed might be I those circumstances that Cannoebe. 1 wish to sop:
k,„ you soy uvensi„ of privileges; unless you conceded, because .Mr. O'Connel made violent !port, and 4 mean t' support the Catholic Question
• 4peeches, which were in truth quite unimportant, or "with a desperate fidelity—if I slay so express my- i
"delligent men in the country had-endeavoured to !
willing to give haft security. Some of.the mod
because Dr. Druingoole made speeches, not oolly 'pelf. 1 use the word S' desperate," not with "dor-
Perm something tempt% foliar& aatiSfeelory security; I violent, but absurd ? Be hoped he should live trim !open to any dispositipn oo any .part to
,sacrifice a
but that which We looked upon as a panacea was i,the day when the present conductors of the Catholics single principle of good Government, or a single ne.
treated as an abomination. To earthat the 'House .would be removed, or if not removed, that they ! emery security oil that question, but because to my ;
to flue mines
,ithemselaws would change, return to a sound discre.. fidelity cannot promise success. Sir, unless the
would go into a Committee, merely
every one of the propositions, would be ;moan to !lion, and choose their former leader.--[Hear, bear!] Catholic Body pursue • conciliatory line of conduct
Catholics; but as tinge Petition was Wally un- should most heartily vote for the motion, as --unless they come to this 'House, not with a silent
(( ited with any securities, they could•not expeet being the (oily course, under present circumstances, and implied, bat
.with a declared AttAchment to the
that the Hodse would grant' their claims. which afforded any prospect of euccem; but had he vital principles of tbe Coostitutipm, they will. not(
Lord CASTLEREAGH commenced by staling been asked whether this year or the next, or what succeed. I bare told them before, and I now repeat
the serious grounds of his conviction, that the way period would have been best for bringing the subject it, that uoless they adopt 'a
spirit of conciliation,
its which the questionwas then introduced, was not forward, his answer would have been, ask Mr. their will never sucreed. say further, that
likely to advance the mein subject at issue. Ile re- Grattan. 'conciliation it not only necessary to their interest,
ietted this circumstance, as his view of this impor-
Lord CAS I'hERF.AGH and Mr. PEEL explained. but essential to their duty, both to the.Staitt and .;tsr
K
tint consideration led him to quite a different vote Mr. W. POLE said, that if he thought, by voting one another. If Catholic fdtlinCiptitun P 49414 not
for the Committee, he was to beconsidered.ts pledged finally be carried, it,wilLbe owing, not to, tile
Is'iae quite convinced, that nothing hut a comtwe. to aSu
Gera that of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peele);
support .of the propositions, ,be Certainly should of candour and consideretion on the part Or•tbe
di cietlon
lo,..sive adjustment of the principle they were called not give his tote that way ; but conceiving the gislature, but to the wont of prudence and'
'" discuss would in any way produce the object iquestion to be, not whether they should Agree to on the part of some Catholics, whO do' not assist the
"'mit it teas meant to obtain. -,[llear, hear !]- -The the Resolutions, but whether they should go into a Protestant friends of their cause by expressing their
s:seat point was to establish general feelings of con- consideration of the laws affecting the Catholics of -ready concurrence in the adoption by Perlienient of
I:tation between the Catholic and Protestant cons. Irelaod,generally, he had ao hesitation in voting for .such securities, as to their feelings may app9Jtneerts-
',l,itii!y ally thing else would bedelusive. Not that it. From all the opportunities •which he had had of sary,and which at site samatime may notibelosopsistent
t • •the opinions of the Irish he •
was disposed to be discouraged from pursuing the ascer a. g._co.Catholics, with the CatholiC 'religion. Unless they do this', they
he had laid down for his guidance, by anty po- was satisfied that nesiberitbe tholic Board nor the ' will fail in their efforts, Ind' their Whites with he
Catholic Prelates spoke the
tilar elferteicence •• estnif this were more general; sense of the Catholic-po- solely attsibatable to their want of •discretion. 44,