The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-03-14 00:00:00

THE STATES,

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POOR LAWS. *. • .

.Mr

the Vestries iteellogi Bin. ins wise -flu. Id
Bills for the stiorothnott of ihe Pu' ,Lows
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...e MM was read a second time. ''''''46ll6"."""3ll
Mr. Alderman WOOD said. there were Isiolt. seijecti en
.shish it would beadvisable some provisions should be made.
As the law now stood, before persons were passed to their
homes, the Minelarates, though they had esionnitted no act of
vagrancy, wereohlig• d to commit diem for a week to Bride
well, which, as 70, 80..qe even Ithi were sninetimes brought up
in one day, perhaps natives of Ireland, was as eel' inconveni-
ent as expensive. He should be glad to see a clause introdtieed
to enable the Magistrates to seed them directly to the Pan-tuast tr.
There was also a penalty of 201.. upon the Pam-master who suf-
fered vagrants to escape. This Roe was to be recovered by ac-
tion; bet he thought it would be mach better to have a small
fine which might be summarily levied, as the fact was, that
probably half-the persons forwarded to their paristse, escaped.
Mr. STURGES BOURNE said,' that as to Irish and Scotch
Vagrants a power we- given In the other Bill ta pass them
without prefously conamiting them The Bill would be re-
committed after the holigys, aid the Worthy Alderman might
then propose his clause. . .
The Bill was committed.
The. Poor Laws Aineadmeat Bill was also brought in, and
iced a first and second time, mid committed ; bath the Bills
were ordered to be recommitted on the Bth of April.
Lord ALTHOIt PE brought in the Billfor the Repeal of the'
Leather Tax, which was read a first time, and ordered to
read a fecund time on the 6th of Apia.
Mr. LUSHINGIC/N said the Chaticellor of the Exchequesq.
b4l
who was taw absent, has no wish to oppose the iiitroduci ton of ,
the Bill. bat he should oppose it in every subsequent stage. ..- '
Sir F. IBURDET 1' presented a Petition from Hollierkh,
praying for a Radical Reform. and Universal Suffrage, by hal-
W.—Ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed.
Mr. W. SA/ I PH presented a Petition from Lyon. in Nor-
folk, which I e stated *as mo t respectably signed. against the
Bill of I..demnity. It was perfectly respectful towards the
House, though it strongly I ondenined the Ministers.
Mr. CALCKA rf moved far certain Papers respecting Salt
Duties, for the information of the Lommittee.

TITHES BILL.
Mr. BROUGHAM said he hoped his Hon. Friend (Mr. Cur-
wee) would postpone the second reading of the Tithes Amend.
meat Bill till Monday, as an Hon. and Learned Friend of his
(Sir S. Rossilly) was absent, in the expectation that it wool()
sot then be hrowtht on.
Mr. CURWEN agreed to postpone it.
Sir WM. SCO'IT hoped the Bill would not he enneeemarily
pClerostponed, as there was a grew alarm ou the subject among the
Mr.gy BROUGHAM said he was just in anxious a% the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman that the Bill should he speedily brought
on, and for the very purpose of gnieting that alarm. which..
,when they came to the enactments, would be found to be with-
Out foundation.
The second reading nas fixed for Monday.
ADJOURNMENT.

In answer to a quemion from Lord A. 11 A MILTON.
Lard CASTLERF.AGII mid that it was hi. iotention to one
thebAstfisuraudeat of the house on Thursday

BREWER' ES.
The adjourned debate nn the Petition for a frets
trade in Beer was resumed. •

M. C. CA LVERI' said, he was prepared to a (i-
-deas circumstances to refute every charge which bad
been made against the Bresere of the Metropolis. Pro.
tided, however, it was proposed by any Gentleman
to refer the suhje&t to a Committee, he should not op.
pose that motion, ■nd lie should not then trouble
the Wise, as the matter would be ezatiined in that
Committee. The charges were not light, though
without foundation, and if no Oentlemen moved fo'r
a Committee, he hoped the House would allow him ti
enter into the subject.
Mr. LOCKHART said, he had no intention 14
move for a Committee. no had only performed his
duty in presenting the • Native. He had no objet.
lion to a Committee, if the Honourable Gentlemee
(Mr. W. Smith) who had mentioned it, should move it.
Mr. W. SMITH said, his advice had been this;
that his Hon. Friends (Mears. Calvert and Barclay)
should not refuse to agree to a Committee, if a Com-
mittee was demanded. But unless, on the part of
the Petitioners, a Commitee was demanded, he did
not thi►►k there was any case whatever to put his
Hon. Friends on their defence, and, therefore, though
it would not become them to oppose a Committee, he
should not himself move for one. Nothing more was
I wanting to clear them than a comparison of the evi.
dehce which bad been adduced. The charges were
two, first, Monopoly ; and, second, Adulteration.
As to the charge of Monopoly. There were eleven
IF Breweries which, it was said, agreed. as to the price
of Porter, bet if they did not also agree es to the
quality, there could be no monopoly, and it was
not alleged that there was any sort of agreement as
to that. The charge of adulteration was oriented.
IThe laws plait it were so severe, that detection
I would ensure the rein of the richest lodine : and
bow meld it be practised with secrecy in a brewery
from which 300,000 barrels were sent forth in a
year ? How could the materials be carried in which
could produce the slightest effect on so immense a
quantity, without the fact being known to the whole
neighbourhood, besides the persons connected with
their concerns? This alone, even without the direct
contradiction of teen of character, was sulkiest.

Mr. P. MOORE said, that before entering into a
Committee, it should be known what sort of respon-
sibility the Petitioners would be subject te it they
did not prove their case, for if the statement bad
been made in any other stay then by. Petition, he
conceived they might be in danger of pillory. The
*ember of the signatures were net to be regarded,
hs they bad been convinced in the same nieutier as
'voters at en election. lie bad himself been applied
to to sign, though he believed the allegations to be
false. •

Mr:-CALV FAT felt it soceisety to refute elms
parts of a Petition so scandalous in its statements.
The charges were of mooppely, of the use of dela-.
lerioes *Metes, and of *drawee of the, price of beer
ttnjettly.:•l It appeared to him that lift* of nothing
need bwiskl en the chary of monopoly. H. might
refer Members to the Report of the CoeOnittaLThey
might, by examining the circumstances, sea that'the
metioa was rldiceloes. Nothing was word safosed-
ed than what Mr. Beaumont had said eboet.thtes-
priclosstess and wantonness of the Prowlers respect.
lag their prices. Ite UM,' good grounds existed for
what they did,- as the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had Informed them el his intentions Co increasethe
duties. There was a great tweeelaidli lb, wee del
on milt, *bleb was disuidvasiageimi fro the Brasier.
The price .sae lowered wiled the 'war dodge ceased,
which MIA the difeieeee of Ifs. It woold be too
Wimps I. the neese if blobakto ge through items.
bookletbatk abbe 011711i,sitwould be foetid that
the peke of was 19s. &L rot bad boos. ; bat
they bad whoa to to 410s.add, decd ii 14golaire. to
cootredietion to what was asserted. be could sae,
that for two years aftgr 17V9, the it: t er • !artead

ffr'n
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of ma I

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were losing past of ad
I r 'nee in 1801 • , Wril
j4ered wood Atha
elterious articles p kraal
ini In I hat lints ihtitAis

hibit

.11t011eti bylesaf.prpteedfug I tither ingredients than
malt and boos were made use of. Some years back,
Ohre or six) the F.ditor era *Witty Meer listen-der
had libelled the London Porter-brewer., and stated
they made use of "tobecco, deadly nightshade, and'
flux optaica. The brewers wished to prosecute a
Jebel of this natere. An affidavit was made by the
proprietor of a large Brewers, denying therein*.
men, and which was farther strengthened by the,
affidavit of the person himself, who was the, ideal
Brewer: The Covet was of opinion, therlithe ap-
plication for a rote for co knitted information was
not sufficient as to questions of sale. The Brewers
thought it was sufficient for en application to the
Judges. No rule was granted ; but on the last day
of the term, liberty was given to move in neat term.
Before that nest term, the Editor M the Weekly
Paper alluded to wrote a toistetential letter, in which
he said he bad copied the article, and requested Iris
(Mr. Calvert's) intercession to prevent prosecution.
lie declined taking an, past in the business ; but the
request o the Editor's latter wag complied with,
after the'opinion of Sir William Garrow, and other
Lawyers was taken a. to the effects of epplicition by
affidavit. The Petition had-been hawked about the
streets for signatutes. IN' earnestly hoped that t
Committee would be iponinted to enquire fully into
all the circumstances connected with this subject, in
order that it might be seen haw little'credit was doe
to the different statements of the Petition now be.
fore them, and that Mr. Beaumont might be ex-
hibited in his proper colours, as si disappointed Ma.
(tie rate, who had failed lit his itbject of exercising
the Commission for his own priVate ends.
Mr.- LOCKHART said, that he could not speak
to the character of Mr. Barber Beaumont, as he had
not the honoir of any acquaintance with that Gen-
tleman omit's' to his application to have the Peti-
tion under discussion presented to that floury.—
When Mr. Beaumont applied to kite foe Me purpose,
he felt it his duty to 'accede to the request, and he
presented the Petition,' not as that of Mr. Beaumont
only, but as the Petition of the 14,000 persons by
whom it WAS signed. ' With regard to the observation,
that the Petition contained libels upon respecteble
establishments, the use of such language was, he must,
say, calculated to interfere very materially with the
right of petitiouing.;.. for if men were thus threatened
when they attemlnetrtrecemplain of injustice or op.
oresiion, many seotild shrink from even venturing to
.petition, As to trio 'allegation, that it was grossly
unjust to charge the Brener: with using any dale-
teriens ingredients, be was quite satisqted that no such
ingredients were used in. the Breweriespi.either 41f the
Gentlemen who had addressed- the floolse; as those
Gentlemen bad 'lifted, borltii,w. could these Gen.
tlemen pledge Alieniiiettes for all o'hur Brewers?—
He was surprised at the intlictrinsionte objections to
the character and.terms of Oil Petition; Wheri it was
recollected that the complaint it preferred ogeinst-the
system of licensing-was authorized by the Report of
the Police Committee, which originated with some of
the friends of the very Gentlemen who pressed those
objections. ft was, indeed, distinctly alleged in that
Report, that the licensing ilstem required revision,
therefore if Mr. Barber 13eaurnont were the author
of the Petition before the House his statement was
%cosine& in this respect, by the authority of the
Police Report. The charge seemed extraordinary
that Mr. Beaumont in promoting this Petition was
actuated by sinister motives. 11'hat those motives
were be could not conseive. Ile would, however,
concur with the wishes of the Hon. Gentleman who
preferred the charge by moving, as ass amendment,
that the•Petitiors he referred to a Coalmine., instead
of the motion before the Hone that the Petition do'
lie on the table. After some silence the Hon. Mem-
ber observed that he understood he could not rep..
lady move an amendment upon his own motion.
Mr. BA RCLA Ysaid, that as the lion., Gentlemen
felt the difficulty alluded to, he would move that the
Petition be referred to. a Committee, of it wee his
tensions Wish that the subject to which. It referied
should be tboroeghly Investigated end-clearly en.'
. .
derstood. . ' '
Upon the suggestion of the Speaker as to the point
of Ordeet Air. Lockhart withdrew the original snou
non; andmeved that the Petition be referred to A
Committee'. The modem was agreed to, and the
Committlier was Videlinitecl,, tis 'csitssist .of 21 Mem-
bers, five of whotn'ara I h ....V a quorum. ,
CRUFLTY UNDER TUE SUsPIiNSION. NOT.
Sir S. ROMILLY rose to pieiestre Pealed* from
Robert Swindon, of Chester, wlsoiitilie.he haded-
verted to in the coven of. his observations upon ibe
Indemnity Bill. The Petition .did, he;perceivat
differ in some respects from the'stiletil'eni OM ap-
peared is the Chester Newspaper. but therstatestent
substaittially concurred with the Petitioner lo Jill
material points. This Petition was feeeterde4 tong
lion. Friend of his, in order to be prentintedi•befoie
he (Sir S. R.) alluded to the case in that 'Hosisefliet i
his Hors. Friend (Mr. Bennett,) being prevented
from attending the House by a domestic. calamity,,
had sent it to hins,(Sir S.) to have it presented. • Hem
now proposed to have the Petition brought np,:in.
order to have it bald on the table. Whet• might be-
i come of this Petition hereafter he could unpretend'
to say. Ile did not know that the 'offerings or the
1 poor Petitioner, with Abe loss of his wile and child,
night net be made a topic of merriment. to minims
ISOM. future debete.—[Hear heori hear!. on the
Opposition benchesl . .
The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the
table, as wis another Petition from Andrew Somer-
ville, of Glasgow, complaining of unjust arrest and
stereos imprisomstent udder the Sespensioa. of the
Habeas Corpse Act—adding, that after beingt Gil'
months detained in prison the Petitioner ,iwestlitis,
'charged witout any trial: - ~, .s „. .
stir. LYTTEI.MON presented Olyetition to 'm-
eta ersqoalified Conveyancerh?'24)rderecr fii lie
on the table. .
Sir' GEORGE CLERK said, that on tr former
*Melon the minsideration of some pliin for the eqoali-
lotion of Weights and bieasores had:been suspended,
en the understanding that a 'Commission would be
Issebd to certain Members of the Royal Society who

^

- _ _ _
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. OCkA) L>)

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Um/ t

enquire into the sebji
as he understood, bed
a could nogoorn thatA

qiatromattis-ion, as
t bibn issued; an 4
thing would be milli
opportunity, after the recess, of
bringing in a Bill wn the subject. _ •-•••ar"..,11W
Mr. BRAGGE BAIBURST professed Me*
nimble to give any information on theiajostribit
said be would make enquiry.

”Fro era
'peeling the transportation of convicts to New South
- Wales; of the timber-61 arm 4tio dlett ire
passage;
Ofethesesebet dischsiged for the last weir
eysecahreiferaorm; Ishusisnlmoltst,hodsiestiatthpinugnitohlemopesurot
aiitsisid't
pired,, and of those who bad beers pardoned.
The'Greeidaud Fishery Paths' Bill went theogiii
.'Committee.
INDEMNITY BILL
The ATTORNEY-GENERA(, then moved
the Indemnity Bill should be read a third time. •
Sir JOHN NEWPORT then rose end ststeitia
amendment which he intendecito propose in the pre*
amble o(the Bill. Ile thought that oohing route
more fair than that the public purse should pariar
the public protettion. The object of the prespetft
was clearly of a different tendency. By its prevl.s..
sions, any iiidividuaf who had been injured by the
steps which hid been adopted for the public safety,
was prevented from seeking any redress, whatever
she extent or aggravation of the injuries he had vos.
tained. Bat nothing could be more dear sod deg
monstrahle than fbe injustice of thus making a pd.
vale individual pay the price at -which the
pablia*
safety bad been protected. The ruinous con
quences of such a Bill struck him the more forcibly,
as he had lived to see the scenes of cruelty and ~
atrocity which had been protected by former Acts of
Indemnity in Ireland: As a proof of the injustice
done to individuats.by Bills of Indemnity, he wink!
mention a case that bad occurred in Ireland; ea the
accuracy of his statement he was ready to stale ail I e
hie-credit with thal House. A very respectabli
corn.mvechant, of the name of Scott, was arrested by
order of a person whose character repaired no epl.
the, by Sir Thomas Jsidkin Fitzgerald, end on the
information wf'Dcvaney, justly characterised as "a
perjured and nefarious villain." The accusation
was, that he had .been sending corn to Ross.—
This accusation was palpably false, and capable
of instant refutation-100,0001. were offered lit
bail for him. This offer was refused: he was ,
dragged from his house and imprisoned. After
duresse of sit days he was' offered Isis discharge
on a bail of 20,0001. His ansoer was, " No, yon
have blasted my character, end I will not be bailed:
I wisest a -fair trial, in order to vindicate my Injure&
reputation." At the end of ten days afterwards ha
was enlarged without bail. In the mean time the
price of corn had varied, and he had been prevented
from availing himself of fair opportunities of dispel-
log of eons in his hands. tie was thus rendered
benkrupt.in-tortone, bud ruined in character, by a
malkioors inlormation, and unjust imprisonment.—
Ile brought en action for damages, but an Act of
Indemnity robhed him of all redress. If then the
country was protected by the measures of kit year,
let the country, and not individuals, pay thrice. Ile
felt a difficulty in alluding to proceedings in Ireland
in presence of a Noble Lord, in whose time, sad
during whose Ministry, they took place, although he
siocerely acquitted' him of having knowingly been
guilty of them. But the consequences of those pre-
ceedings in Iceland ire foil of instruction, and
ought to prove a warning to that House. By their con..
duct on that occasion thp Parliament of Ireland sealed
its death-wag:ant. The People instantly fell from dui,
and they wereobliged to surrender as soon as assailed,
out a stieggle.' The Noble Lord never would with.
have carried the Union, if the People had not been
previously alienated. Some had believed, though'
be did not charge, that it was the Noble Lord's
intention to prodorn.thet effect by the Indemnity.--
The House should be aware of a similar consequence.
If the People found not protection in that How,
they would look for it elsewhere. The first amends
ment he should move was, 46 That damages sustained
by individuals be paid out of the public purse." The •
sticond amendment he should move was, " That no.
thing is the Act should easend to cases of undo* or
eec&bsive rigour or severity in apprehending, kepis
inning, or'detaissiog persons." It had been repeat-
edly aiserted, that the Bill did not eaten(' to thee
rates: If Ministers were sincere io that declaration, ?
they could, make no objection to an Uptick amend-
ment
to the sameeffect. He wished also to know
the meaning ettlieb.ed,tb the words " was advised:"
In 1801, the/owes, two Acts of Indemnity, one for
England, another for Ireland. The latter had those
viords--Aeformer bad not. lie thought that cif.
eurastance• so ominous as to require eaplanation• •If
Miehterts should not object to those amendments, he
world say nothing farther of them till the Bill was
recd 'a third time; but if they did object, Ile would
moie that tfie Bill be re.committed.
Es leing•onderatontl.that Ministers did not wee,
SirrJOHN NEWPORT moved that the BM be re-
committed.
The SPEAKER felt some difficulty as to form.
?here was no precedent of a motive to have a
recommitted on the question of the third reading.
When a Bill originated in that lions', the form was,
that' after it had passed through a Committee, it
should be ordered to be engrossed ; when it came
from the other Hense, the only difference Was, INA
it came engrossed. As to any alterations propoieds
it was as open to discuss them in the House sm -in. a
Committee. But the only time for attaching Vora-
tions to a Bill that had once come to a third readings
was after it had been read a third time.
SirAJfotenresoNincewceo"alr."auldil)Sill roW" strh.cerasi?ct
Hienak la:tmwoeeu:s
d ties
tlsho
incitphioeo, ought tahsetth,
earse the
was ff
stn e:oecgtiept
to come before that House,
ti:slcucsisieadnditomt e.
B.
siege,rßesAeTnitiusi t,h ewhasoundbpsjeolEChisAp*ltaiss,le: ,
cslling for their opinion by anticipation, Waisted Oat,
although it was open to the other side to fey what
they pleased now, Minisiers torte not Joisossper
the time of discussing amenements, it was agreeerta
posttiprnirtie.
itiheElatmaeNsidum
opposition last opp or t eat
oi t y
thisto pmaies!ni,ttetwilt.giialtibi j :sit:ice:or:6r ilinristueitrilialdtils:r°elseincddirlihril:lBol;l