The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-03-24 00:00:00

Aard is is that an officer who has honourably god ably,
served Isis country aboold be deniednateli a situation.-
Bet he wouldeay how hard would he his treatment, if
he tvere dealt with as they would dead by him being
placti in the actuation of Oorernor, and stripped of
the right of performine the duties attached to it. The
attention of the Privy Council was incessantly called
41 Recksiastical matters—all the appeals from the ('n-
innies tame there; and how uncerentoitionaly would
the - Catholic he treated. when such qnestions were
hroityitt forward, if :11r. Buller were nuthorised to tell
,him Cud he must either leave the room, or incur the
:penalties of a prterounire. This Bill was intended to
ettoci!iate, but vet in his opinion it meta to expose the
Catholic to that which would be more grating to his
feelings than auy thin; of which he bad to complain
under the law as it stood at present. Supposing it to
he talieved that the heir apparent to the throne was a
Catholic, awl that on that account it should he thought
oereasary to remove bini from the rticcession, he
svaat.:l rift could it lw barn.. that ;.Catli,iic Privy Conti-
rtl s!..naltl it at the board to such a qiiestion
When they heard it astseti, of what importance was the
(oleo "ion of a few Catholics into the !louse, it seemed
to he forgotten that twenty-four members inieht proaince
a most important effect, and carry questions of the
go &test cousequence. That the Catholics woold he dis-
posed to use it for the advancement of the I:atholic Re-
Fgiou t Quit' not be doubted. But it was said, there was
a inconsistency in coneedina the elective frail-
( Iti..te to the Catholic, and yet denying him the right of
Mint; elected to serve in Parliament. Ile, for his part,
(-mild see no inconsistency in this, and was wit Of opi•
Riot( that fwesuae much had teen already conceded, a
i9eat deal more ought to lee given. 'lie Honourable
awl Learned tientlentan opposite ( the Ilonottrahle :d em-
her fur Bramber), and other distiognished alooltoos of
that Honse, forming a galaxy of great names, lead
spoken disparagingly of the course tal;en by Lord
Somers at the tiine of the Item oltition, with revert. to
the. Catholics. In twenty years he thotieht it not
improhable that the taunts now bestowed on Lord
Somers would recoil nu oho r by «hoot they were
(Merril, and that new advocates fur the Catholics
speak of their conduct in language similar
to that whk.h they hof applied to his. Ile he-
r' vt'd the fientlemen opposite meant to go no fur.
ther—that they had no intentitot of disturbing the
tratestant Fetahlishment, and that it was their desire
titat the Irish Church should irmain in Pen ?Ito.
Bit is was to he remembered, that there were two
parties to the transaction, and they were only sure
that one of them would agree to the project now tooter
discussion. He would ask the Noble Lord whose
diolomatie talents had so greatly served the country,
it in any negotiation he taiga:red in, he would proceed
to Ids itllimalim without ascertaining the disposition
of the other party. ile was sure the Noble Lord
st odd answer in the negative. But here he saw no-
body to represent the Boman Catholic Church, the
rope, the Cardinals, and the Ilislinas, and the sup.
1. titers of the present Bill were eunchiding a treaty
Con:aiid and putting the WAX to It ou the one side,
t.;.l:r li. was not known that it (t mild be subscribed
to tat the other. If it could la,. plowed to his 5.1115.
faction that the Bill would pratlitt e the final settle-
teent so now!, to he desired, It- then be alis-
tssed to make large concessions to obtain an ohieet
to important ; but he could see nothing of the Lind
ion tl.e measure, and he was satit lied not only that the
a. wk was not done, but that it (vas only beginning
to be done. The llomturable and Learned Gentle.
rale then endeavoured to vintlieate the opposers of
the Bill from the charge of illiberality, by referring
to many celebrated names of old, who entertained a
similar sentiment ; and after declaring that the !home
wa:, about to throw away by the two Bills before it
at the securities which we had hitherto possessed,
concluded by repeating it to be his consirtion,
that, if the mearaires now under consideration were
arrietl, thee would lead to much evil. and for his
Bart lie could !tee nothing of finality in them, but only
principle of colatnetweinent.
Sir .1. :11AClil NTOSH called the attention of the
Committee to the consideration of the clatter intmetli.
atela before them. This clause (lid not go to admit
4.;.,:itolica hoot Parliament, ot to throw open to them
onices which at present they could not fill. Agreeing.
to this clause they pledged themselves to nothing of
ti.e but rejecting they (dosed the door against
Leto illation. lle then commented on various parts
nr the preceding speech with animadversions on the
‘e !intuit, of Owe oho were referred to a: having
formerly opposed the Catholics, and denied that the
preamble of the 11111 mob 'died an historic 11 falsehood,
:0, had been stated by Isis Hon. and Learned Friend.
He untended that no inconvenience was to he appre-
hefaled twin the situation in which Lord Chamberlaius,
110.1111:': 3, and tiovernora would be plat ed by this Rill.
What had been said on the subject of the Privy Coun-
cil was but a repetition of what had been said over
and over again, to throw a cloud over this important
DlCaStlte. For the ifvontiistencies, that it was eon-
tetled were in these Bills, he thought this argument
came with an indifferent grace from those that sup-
ported a jumble of the nio:t anomalous centratlictiona
that the most eliimAral legislatiou could produce.
The Bilis o ent to remote ten thousand anotnalies,
aid leave a few, anti 11.1 these few they acre attacked
by the advocates for the 10,010. It was %aid the
situations in which the Catholita would be placed by
the present Bill would be more ;mating than that in
which they stood at this moment. Ile would take the
word of the Duke of Norfolk in preference to the
Uo-
wearable and Learned Gentleman, said he it tr.,141
rather be admitted to Parliament and to office tolticr the
proposed restrictions, than not at all. It was said a
contederation of twenty-five. Catholics might produce
a most important effect in that House, hut it seemed to
be forgotten that these would immediately be opposed
by 615 Protestants the moment it was seen the twenty-
four Catholics wished to form a Papist's establishment.
The question was whether the oath proposed to hr ten-
dered WbS that which gave as much security as an
oath could afford and the Civil Government ought to
require, lie contended, that the Catholic swearing to
obey the law of the land gave all the security that
ought to he demanded,
Mr. 00131. BURN thought the danger of admitting
Roots Catholics to a share in the legislation, was
that arias% which the House ought always to guard.
He timed there was a great inconsistency in this
swam" Isamonch as it went to require from the Co-
lima', at whom the State might be jealous, a less
%Win oath than that which was imposed on the Pro-
wlso was not an object of suspicion. A course
that seemed opposed to all ordinary legisia-
great security was amaseded from the in-

Ti

. • •
noxious, . whillefi§e *clarity e,wacted flout the object co
suspicioa was lindtvl end
Dr. PH ILIMOE supported ahe . clause. The Ca-
tholics it was well known entertained doubts as to time
oath against supremacy, and it appeared by various
doeumeats that Queer) Elizabeth herself had qualified
that oath to accord with their conscience.. The
Learned Doctor cited a letter from Dr. Sands to Dr.
Parke, also die observations of Bishop Burnett, in
support of his opinion.
Mr. BECHER said, altle.ugh this subject bad
been argued must ably, anti 'enough advatiori to
satisfy reasonable pet-mills on the policy of the measure,
he was still able to acrennt for the hostility—which
many entertained. It was to be attributed to that pre-
judice which men entertained in favour of the religion
in which they hail been brought up. lint allowing!
for that ferlint:, could Gentlemen, taking a liberal
view of the question, refuse to acknowledge that the
Korean Catholic religions was made the groaned upon
which it: nisnibeis seers rx ivied Cons the rights and
privileges of the Constitotiim—was it reasonable that
person. %rho had male England, (speaking in
the langoa7e of an Honourable Member) what
it is, should be dePriveil of the advantages
of that Constitution they bad defended: lie
addressed Lint-cif to persons who &mew the Con-
stitution and the value of its privileges. He was tare
be athlres‘el those who would not deprive a portion
of their fellow-subjects of those privileges tinder hypo-
comiriac apprehensions. They would extend the bine-
ings of the Constitution to all who lived under it
[lonian Catholics had evinced a maderele patient
disposition, and thereby made good-the language of
thei r advocates in that How:e. I k expressed a since' e
hope that the House would tell them they Avoid be
admitted to the benefit of the Constitution.
Mr. PEEL rose amidst a call for question, and
promised to confine the observations he had to offer to
do• simple question, whether the clause should stand
part of the Bill ? In taking a limited view of it, he
found bia:self bound to state his objection to the clause
forthwith, because it would not be fair to urge it at a
future stage of the Bill. Ile felt a difficulty in agree-
ing to this clause to which he wished to call the at-
teution of the framers of the Bill. 1k did not argue
against the principle. 1 lie Bill of Isla proposed to
relieve the Boman Catholics, by releasin.j them fmUlli
the oath against supremacy. That pmvision was op-
posed without interfering with the principle of time
Pill. 'floe diflieulty he felt arose from a feeling that
Ili, clause might operate to the injury of conscienti-
oils Protestants. The Protestant Lad hitherto
requested to take the oath iu .which be abjured
all Ecclesiastical authority to be exercised in'
this realist by any Foreign Prince or .Potentate.—
That part of the oath abjuring foreign influence was
coeval with the Protes:ant Establishment, and row a
new policy admitted the spiritual power of the Pope.
By the provisions of the other Dill, there would he aim
unqualified intercourse with the See of Rouse we all
points of dilinte. There would be the potter
of admitting reseript a and bulls—theme woula be the
power ill admitting Bishops. In 179:1, when the Ito-
man Catholic disabilities were removed, Bishops of
the Roman Church were tint pobliclAreeeguised,
imbed there was no instance in which tht 'inactions of
s were public's. allowed. Dr. O'Reilly was
called Primate.. hut the law slid not call him so. Dr.
Troy was called Molar Blimp of Debla, but net
sr a..r. wiling to law. An Act of Charles the Second
ref.., red to Popish Prelates, and denied them titular
distiue tion. That was the law, anti they were
really to pass an Act of Parliameut which authorised
the operation of episcopal functions, with unlimited in-
tercourse wills the See of Rouse. Bails and Kescripts
were to be admitted, and might tort a Protestant.
denying the Pupe has any ecclesiastical jurisdiction
in the country, feel costscteutions ens that point r There
would undoubtedly be much cause of complaint. The
Protestant would look to the law which excludes
Roman Catholic !Usher, and ecclesiastical spiritual
authority. This country established the Kaman Ca-
thulic religion in Canada in in I, and allotted the
exercise of episcopal flint:dons, but they held that it
was impossible fur the Pope to exercise his jurisdiction.
Intercourse with the Church of Koine was not costal-
tiered essential to their interest. If the House passed
this Bill, it would be necessary to qualify the clause
then under consideration.
Lord CASTIEIIEA6II did not rise to address more
than a few observations to the House. Ile wished only
to state his opinion ni the clause, without entering
into discussion upon the latter pert of the Bill. 'flee
clause then under t utesieleratisees cods. Stated what was
the nature of the tes: re.poreti by V.:dim:lent. It
iu-
volved a mere question was wbetber the present test
was the bust Parliament could obtain. Ile was gra-
tified to find by time argument of his Right ilonourable
Fmiend, that he was not disposed to oppose strongly
the next clause, which related to the °all& against Trail.
substantiation, which, iu his opinion, pot Protestants as
sten as Catholics in a situation to avoid doing vie-
Itlee to their own • cousciesces. a Catholic could
not conscientiously take the oath accorikitig to Igo,
it was limier he should take it in Si modified
forai. The question was then, whether the moilifica-
tiott to the oath was a proper modification ? The law
required persons taking the oath to bare no mental
reservation, and if Catholics took the Oath of :`itifire-
iiiitcy, modified so as to isitearc with their conscience,
time test was binding. lie knew that many Catholics
took the Oath of Allegiance in the forums adopted by
the Members of that !loose. At the late election a
number of Roman Cathoiis s suted after isavieig taken
the oath, but the terms whii.ie were used ist it was a
violence to their conscience. 1a man who took the
oath of supremacy should b..re a doubtful isuprevlon
upon his mind. Tile Noble Lord then answered the
statement of his Right Honourable Friend respecting
Canada, and observed that the objection to Catholic
Bishops was a mete bug hear, funneled upon the bad
government of Canada. Catholics in no country had
submitted to lay authority, and if the oath proposed
in this bill relieved their conscience, the House would
do right to agree to it. Ile was of opinion that the
slightest diculty did not arise. The Noble Lord
concluded a very able and argumentative speech by
expressing a hope the Rill would lead to association
of Catholics with Protestants. Ile was convinced
that nothing would tend more to restore harmony and
good understanding between Catholics and Protestants
than bringing mutual prejudices in conflict. The
result would produce a caution frost alarm, and
ultimately they would be one people.
Mr. Pant. and Sir J. Macatsmoen captained.

Sir. J. NEWPORT rose. abut the cries of " Ques-
tion," became so general, that the Right Honourable
Baronet sat down, and strangers were ordered to
withdraw.
The Committee then divided upon the first clause,
For the Clause
Against it • • . 216

Majority l4
Mr. BANKES gave notice that when the Com-
mittee came to a ce►•tain clause he should move an
amendment, excluding Catholics from holding seats in
Parliament.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtain•
ed leave to sit again on Monday.
The other Orders of the Day were disposed uf,
and the Mose atljourned at half past one o'clock.

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