The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-03-06 00:00:00

tr

f lr

Y" ‘e

token, he believed, es le third!, 'of Wetsottinett
3Nry weeld hate convicted ea the "Albite, of as Ile-
empties. Ho MIN see no stremAty for iltilOng
beck the Pelee tisf the parties sse whose Ittellth,oloa
"welt persons were tektite Op. It we's ashen, by
Noble Lords opposite, 'whether it was possible to
disclese the names of poems oh who* informative
the offenders had beets seism}, *NSW Obese persons
being anode liable to elleertinerioO. 'Aug, he woeld
ask their Lordships, wis there lee eeentry ie the
wend where witnesses in all cells *ere en snow,
from the accost*, being confronted ISM the amused ;
and, therefore, there sees e• eireatly to hare re-
morse to that secret bind of terrorisation for which
Noble Lords apposieehstf contended. The principle
of sock secret information was tie other than that of
the ingelsitiest itself, tied mon &legroom to be le-
traduced into tliteforispresietse* wf this srowttry.—
If of Inetensity were to follow ei mistters of
feline epos every Sespeniiillimf the
Act, sod informers were measeed of preleddess ea
push* of those Bills, the.. the iloadoratels sd
criminality were thrown open, sod no Qill could
hereafter be more sweeping than the present. The
Public was not long since disgusted by informations
of porton, whose only business seemed to be to bring
the lives of others in peril, for the purpose of gain. If,
however, it was expedient to pardon a Vssghtn and
Co. the same argument might apply to Castles and
Co. and even the scandalous proceedings in Scotland.
sot if Spies and Informers were to be considered as
psimeagents in such scenes ; if, in the first instance,
the Habeas Corpus Act was en their information to
he ',speeded, and they were afterwards to be evi-
dence in favour of the Suspension of that Act, it
more than ever became their Lordships tit he emoting,
how they passed Acts of Indemnity in behalf of In-
formers %till Spies.
Earl BA rnUItST saw no reason, even if the Bill
were divided as proposed by the Noble Lord, why
that protection should not be 'strutted to Ma-
gistrates and individuals who bad given information
to Government, which it afforded to Government it-
self. Their Lordships would, be trusted, see the
drift of the present amendment, which reduced them
to the dilemma of giving up the names of individuals
on whose information they had acted by refusing to
disclose them, to wave that defence on which his Ma-
jesty's Ministers might safely stand.—[Hear, hear!]
—Every Act for Suspending the tibias Corpus bad,
on former occasions,•been fellowed by an Indemnity
Bill, granted whitest examination, with the rscep-
don of the Bill of 1801. At that time, some Noble
Lords would recollect, a Secret Committee was ap-
pointed to enquire in w hat manner an exttsortlinary
power had beets exerted, merely on account of the
derides-of that power, which emended through a
lang poetise of time, and at the disetetioo of Steele
Mena With h; No*, In the present all; net owe
arrest bad taken place escept on an information oe
oath, and this circumstance made it materially to
differ from that of 1801, es in that case they pro-
ceeded to issue warrants, without an information an
oath. He was not prepared to affirm that the neces-
sity of 1801 might not recur; but credit was due to
the present Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment for acting on oaths, which furnished the
soundest proof that he acted with justice at the same
time. It was objected that Government had pro-
ceeded on er.parie evidence. What, could any kind
of information be mere satisfactory then information
derived from respectable persons on their oaths ? But
the Noble Lord opposite tumid, for the purpose of
ascertaining whether it was proper to give names,
new have them disclosed.—[/tear, hear, hear !]—
What objection was urged against passing the pre-
sent Bill ? Their Lordships had passed the Act of last
Session in Consequence of the convict ion that t raiterous
designs then vitiated ; mod the only question was now,
• !tether his Majesty's Ministers were justified in act-
in; as they foeud it necessary to do under that Bill.
Bet it was the felicity of Noble Lords on the oppo-
site side, always to be provided with evidence of a
contrary nature, Thus, if persons were not posi-
tively brought to trial, it was asserted by those
Noble Lords that it was impossible to convict them ;
and if persons were tried and acquitted, no matter
why, then, again, there was no conspiracy at all.—
--(leer, hear!)—But what did Noble Lords mean
*hes tenting of Informers? Was it intended to be
asserted that when good and loyal men were ac-
quainted with the designs of traitors, they were not
only not to reveal those plans, but even to be pa-
stished for revealing them ?—(Hear, hear !)—Was it
not the peculiar duty of such men, he would ask, to
give loch information to the persons at the helm of
the State, by whom they deserved to be protected in
tern.? Bet the Noble Lord (King) thought that such
persons could have nothing to fear upon their names
being known. Was it nothing. then, to become the
subject of daily talk ; to be pointed at, scandalised,
and live exposed to the persecution of the Wiest of
human kind?—(!tear, hear!)—lle would contend
that nth characters were entitled to all the protec-
tion his Majesty's Government meld give. Another
ground of objection was, that Acts of Indemnity
geoid, in all cases, be proposed in consequence of
Acts of Suspension. It should be considered, that it
was only in the fall confidence that Parliament would
grant such a protectints that Ministers could act un-
der the Suspension Law ; at the same time, that the
arbitrary ezercise of the powers so vested could lead
them to expect no indemnity. Those powers would
net so often be granted to then, but that Ministers
felt responsible to Parliament. The pretties of pass-
ing Bills of Indenanky had proved the necessity
there was for them; sad that seceisity still proved
the responsibility of Minister* to Parliament.
Earl GROSVENOR expressed his surprise at
what had fallen from the Noble Earl on that most die-
patios of all subjects, Ukeiitect 111 Spies and is.
• t .4.1.0 110 t s.. : un
t .r a alive
..nt bent, 'so
f. • itie,.• 4.6.0 W. WI sti

blernersppreelei• lbw name of the osisobief whisk ft
might become the means of entailing upon the coon.
try hereafter, if unfortunately it should be employed
by week and wicked Ministers, to nerve the purposes
in which they would worst:), engage. It might
probably be expected, from the part i.e !tad taken in
the discussions of last Session. that be should have
been present on a former evening, when the enact.
mews were discussed in the Committee; hut he felt
that Isis attendance was unnecessary, and sltbongh
he would not approve of the measure itself, be was
not prepared to say, that there was not occasions
upon which in Indemnity Bill ought to be pulsed.—
Two grounds were• necessary in order to justify a
Bill of this nature. In the first place, it shou!tl he
shown, that there was no inferiority in the grounds
on whit% the Rohm Corpus Act was suspended ;
end, secondly, that these was no abuse of the
powers which that Act gave to the Administration.
lie was bound to say, that he could not support the
Bill, because he did not think that satisfactory
jecoends were established to prove the necessity of
the 11102 Sere Out of which it arose. All the doubts
be entertained and espressed in the course of last
year, were confirmed by every thing that hod since
transpired. Though the justification on which Mi-
nisters relied, was the alleged danger of the country,
be believed the real cause of their proceedings was
se Ipprebension of the progress which Parliamentary
Refire was making in the country. If they thought
"the views of the Reformers were of a dangerous
tendency, and the principle of Universal iurftsge
satiVersive of the Constitution, the hest, the most
candsd. sod straight forward proceeding for them to
have adopted, was to consider the publications in
'which such views were manifested, and such princi-
ples avowed, as libels, and to prosecute them as
,suck. Considerable alarm was excited last year, by
the Reports of the Committees. and by the language
4thich was adopted by Noble (Ards in that House ;
but, after the first Report was published, it soon be-
trayed its own infirmity. It was (nand to be &fee-
illee in one material point—that of the existence of a
Club in London, with which all the minor Clubs
ihroeghout the country kept up a correspondence.—
Ai remembered that a great alarm took place at
Chester, in consequence of the esistence of a Club,
perfectly constitutional and loyal, at the bead of
Which a most respectable person presided ; it was ho-
-111 Sered with the title of the Knights of Brunswick.
'With so many Orders already in the country—the
'Order of the Garter, the Order of St. Patrick, the
Order of the Bath, in all its ramifications, the Order
of the Thistle, &c. and a prospect of a new-crested
Older of the Leek, which, being himself half a
Welshman, he should have no objection to—with so
many Orders in existence, a great alarm was taken
at the new Order of the Knights of Brunswick, with.
out any better reason to assign for it than the accu-
mulation and variety in which they existed alreedy.—
With regard to the seditious and blaspbeemo pebli-
Minis, on which so much stress had been laid, b*
weed declare that be bad never heard or saw soy
t)t. 44.41 NMI
... .1 htitt-,Nt.:,":111,•1tc-st, rj '
ote

•.,

~.

/tki

,

. sr i:4.'•% lor I• • itit•

elf/