The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-06-20 00:00:00

,

. ------ .
HOUSE OF COMMONS, THURSDAY, Jest 19.
A new writ was ordered for the borough of Hertfeird, in
the room of Lord Viscount Cranborne, now Marquess of
Salisbury.
A petition was presented complaining of an undue return
for the borough of Rossiney.—Ordered to be taken into con-'
sideration on the Bth July.
Mr. BIRCH presented a petition from the merchants and
manufacturers of Nottingham, against the Bill for repealing
the Combination Laws.—Laid on the table.
Mr. NIARRYATT asked the Colonial Secretary if it was
the intention of Government to comply with the prayer of
two petitions that be had presented relative to the application
of British law to the island of Trinidad? • •
Mr. W. HORTON replied, that it was the intention of
Government to send out Commissioners to Trinidad to in-
vestigate the subject.
Mr. BEINETT presented a Petition from Robert Gourley
and others, labourers in a parish In Wilts, complaining of
the low rate of agricultural wages, hedging paupers. &c.
Mr. ELLIS brought up the Report of the Irish Court of
Chancery Bill, which was ordered to be read the third time
to-morrow.
ASSESSED TAXES COMPOSITION RILL.
Mr. BERRIES moved the third reading of the Assessed
Taxes Comp •sition Bill.
Mr. HOSHOUSE wished to know from the Secretary of
the Treasury, if windows belonging to shopkeepers, although
not shop-windows, were exempted from the tax?
Mr. BERRIES observed, that he apprehended the dis-
tinction was, that shop windows were exempted, but not
those belonging to shopkeepers, which did not come under
1 that denomination.
The Sill was then read a third time.
The House went into a Committee on the Barilla Duties
Dill, and the report was ordered to Iv received to-morrow.
The Passage Vessel Regulation Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.
POOR LAWS.
The Poor Settlement Bill was read a second time, and or-
dered to be committed to-morrow,
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
Mr. JANUS presented a Petition, signet by 3107 in-
habi tints of .:rucastle-upon-Tune, praying for a ItA.ortn
in Parliament, for Annual Llections; Univers.d Suf-
frage. and Vire by 11411.1 t. The lion. Gentleman .tateil
it to be the opinion of the Petitioners in which he con-
Imirred, that all freemen had a right to assist in making
=be laws in person, or by direct representation, wkieli
they were expected to obey. He was sorry be did not
see the lion. Memb-e for liramber in his place, who had
so often exerted his great talents in opposition to Negro
SI +very. Be (Mr. James) had it in his power to do
something towards emancipating the Blacks, hiving
had the misfortune to succeed to estates in the %Vest
Indies which had been purchased by his ancestors. But
before he did this he most make smut, barg ,in with the
Hon. Gentieurso (the Member for lirambee), which
should hind him to use his brat efforts to abolish Slavery
among the Whites. The lion, Ucttleutan in Oat case
/

eetiE • ma_ to appport the Governifiene at he had dOne,
in each mealtime as the six Acts, for Vastest,. He then
intilltattel. a comparison between 'the situation of the
lower classes in this country, and the Slaves in the West
Indies, and declared, tali eircosnstances considered,
If the litter were. placed in the situation of the
former, that be thoogbt, by Heaven ! the exchange
would be against them. The English Government de.
served credit for the efforts whiche it bad. nude to
induce Foreign Powers to abandon the Slave Trade.
But be thought before they claimed liberty for a race
proverbially ignorant that they Would have done well to
require the Despots of the Continent to make their own
countrymen free, and the Ministers of this country
might to have set them the example by communicating
the, blessings of freemen to those who like the present
Petitioners complained of the freqnent suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act, of excessive taxation, and the other
evils of the present system, and especially of the mis-
chievous tonseepiences of the wickedly called " Re-
striction Act of 1797," and the " Act of Confiscation"
passed is 1817.
Sir 1. COFFIN thought the lion. Gentleman and the
Peo.iioners most labour under some mental delusion.
He had never seen people more fat, more flourishing,
and apparently more contented in any part of Europe or
in America, than those he hail met with at the place
from which this Petition was presented.
Mr. JAMES, in presenting the Petition, put part of
it towards the Clerk, but the greater part of it fell from
the tells and rolled towards the door.
The SPEAKER—" The Hon. Gentleman will have ,
the goodness to bring up the Petition."—'(A laugh.)
Mr. JAMES lifted the petition,whicb was very bulky,
on the table, and on moving that it should be printed,
took occasion to remark that the inhabitants of New-
castle, who bad been represented to be so sleek and c
tented, to all appearance, most have been that portion of
them who lived on the taxes.—The Petition Was ordered
to be printed.
RECOVERY OF SMALL DEBTS.
Mr.ABERCROMIIY.In the absence oflis Noble Friend,
the member for Northamptonshire (Lord Althorpe,) presented
a petition from 9,60 persons in the county of Middlesex,
praying that the sum recoverable at the county court might
be raised from 40s. to 61. The petitioners expressed n con-
fident hope as to the extension of the jurisdiction of the•
court to that sum by the House ; but at the same time, ex-
pressed a further hope that the sum to be recovered In that
court might ultimately be increased to hit., which would be
a great advantage to retail dealers.
The petition was ordered to he printed.
CASE OF MR. BUTT.
Mr. 110BHOUSE. seeing the Attorney•Oeseral in his
place, would take that opportunity of presenting a petition
from an individual unfortunately well known to the public ;
he meant Mr. Butt. The short history of the case
was, that Mr. Butt had brought an action against Sir Nath.
Couant and Mr. Newman, for false imprisonment, haying
been confined in prison before a bill had been found against
'him, and obtained a verdict of Is. damages. The four
Judges of the Common Pleas set aside that verdict, by a
rule which he should ever contend against, and which wasin
opposition to the authority of no less a person than Lord
Camden. Mr. Butt's friends, after this decision of the
Judges, called on the defendant to settle the payment, and
Mr. Sheriff Parkins himself offered security In a 4JOf. bond ;
but they were told that the defendant could not receive the
money, for the Treasury had paid his expenses. Mr. Butt,
Boding his creditor would not take the money, applied to the
gaoler to receive it, but that officer said that he could not do
so, for the Treasury did not stand in his book as a debtor.—
Tbe petitioner then applied to Mr. Justice Richardson. who
advised him to move the Court of Common Pleas, whicn was
done on his bekalf in a very able manner by Air. Sergeant
Vaughan, but the Court could not interfere. Mr. Sheriff Par-
kins then applied to Lord Sidinouth, who told him that it
was not a crown process, and Mr. Butt not being a debtor
in the books of. the Treasury, it tool.) not be received
there. Mr. Sheriff Weidman then in va'n endeav,mred
to procure relief for the petitioner. Pe' itions were after-
wards presented to both Houses of Parliament; and tt.e
usual relief was there atrorled,riz.—none at all. When tie
coronation took place, Mr. Butt fully expected that some=
thing would be done for him; but he was still disap-
pointed. By this time both the defendants hail died, and
he applied to young Mr. Conant, who told him that be
could not receive the money, as be had been informed
that his late father had been defended by the Solicitor
of the Treasury, and his expenses bad been paid. The
House should recollect, that 111 r. Butt had been held to
bail for a libel on Lord Castlereagh and Lord Ellen-
borough. A most singular otter was made to Mr. Butt
on hjs second application to the Treasury, %%Welt was, if
he chose to take the benefit of the Insolvent Act, the
Treasury would not oppose him. He was written to to
that effect by Mr. Arbuthnot. He considered the con-
duct of the Trelsury a direct violation of the act of
maintenance; and although be bad no particular predi•
lection for it, it mutt to be observed so long as it was
in the statute book. After having been confined 26
months in prison, the executors, out of pure compassion,
made application to know if they could release tne peti-
tioner; but the answer they received was, that they
could not without the consent of the Treasury, and it
was by mere accident that Mr. Butt was at last liberated;
for if the Treasury wished it they might still have con-
fined him It is well known that private creditors did
sometimes compound .debts, but the Government will
nat, and it therefore became necessary that some under-
standing should take place. This individual, opposed as
lie had been. did not come before the House to demand
pecuniary compensation, but to confer a benefit on his
fellow-citizens.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL regretted that the
Hon. Gentleman had not apprised him of his intention
to present this petition. He bad attended on several
evenings with the correspondence which bad passed be-
tween Mr. Butt and the Treasury, but he was now, un-
fortunately, unprepared with the documents, which he
was sore would appear satisfactory to the House. How-
ever, he should state the particulars of the case. Shortly
after his conviction, Mr. Butt published a libel on Lord
Ellenborough, accusing him of having imposed a fine
upon him, and putting it in his own pocket. A similar
libel was afterwards published respecting the late Lord
Londonderry. These libels were most conspicuously pla-
carded on the walls, and circulated very generally. In
cansequ. nre of this,Alie Secretary of State wrote to Sir
N. Conant, to take measures to prevent this nuisance,
and then Mr. Butt was arrested ; he refused to give bail,
and was consequently committed to Newgate. He sub-
sequently brought an action, not only against Sir N.
Conant, but against Mr. Newman, the gaoler of New-
pte, for false arrest and imprisonment. The cause was
tried in the Common Pleas, and argued with great ability.
He was counsel for the defendants; lie was acquainted
with all the particulars. and could state confidently that
time defence was conducted solely at the instance of Sir
N. Conant ar.d Mr. Nee min. Atter some elaborate argu•
rents by the counsel on both sides, the Court of Common
Pleas, after mature deliber Ilion, determined that the
warrants were to fleetly legal. The costs of the suit were
efteraards taxed, but stilt amounted to 500/. ; and as
Boa was unable to pay them, Bo' Secretary of State
thinking it too bad that &Magistrate with a small salary
should suffer such a loss, applied to government to have
Sir N. Currant and Mr. Newman reimbursed. It had
been saiethat an oiler was made to Sir N. Conant, and
that he refused to accept the money. This, however,
was not the case, and under these circumstances, he
was sure the House woohl feel that the interference of
Government was perfectly justifiable.
Mr. LEN MAN said, that the Government had no
Tied whatever to meddle with the public money, to
place themselves in the situation of Sir N. Conanwand
fisep this poor man in gaol. He Lopteile
nm
suiroclherameenut am
would never be repeated, as it gave h
oppoitunity of practising oppression.

Mr. HOBHOUSE slid. that it did not to him
that the Solicitor-General had taken off the= of the
rise ; it was not only inexpedient but unjust that the
Government should interfere in a private law-suit at the
pbblic expense.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL repeated the argu-
ments of his learned colleague. He denied that the
claim set up was well founded. But had always plead.
ell poverty, and it was only to remunerate those who
had unjustly suffered that the Government had inter-
fered. With respect to the legality of the question, he'
should only say. that he preferred depending upon the
etas of
e had fo
decision of the Court of Common Pleas to that of the
Hon. Member for Westminster.
Mr. 110BHOUSE said, he had never Meant to set up
his bpioion i oppositionn
and t
t toat
onet Coo f a
the of Common Pleas,
althoughlearned
judge
that Conn was the first since the Revolution who had ex.
I pressed a favourable opinion of one of the judges wl.o
bad tired the seven Bishops. But for his pert he cared
not what was said in that house by the law-dfficers of the
crown; their opinions was not worth Mat (said the Hon.
Member, snapping. his fingers)—(much langhing). He
repeated, their opinions were not worth a button ; and •
he would ask,was it fair that gentlemen should be taunts
ell with their ignorance of law, unless they happened to
be lawyers. When a poor mere ignorant layman cause
down to complain of a violation of justice, let these et
officio defenders of every iniquity prove that they were
wrong (cheers); let them prove it by argument, and not
taunt them with ignorance. He always felt confident in
his opinion when he was opp_osed to the law officers of
the crown, not so much a confidence that he was right as
that they were wire to be wrong. (cheers.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he should never
be ashamed to avow in that hodse, that the decision of
,the Court of Common Pleas was law, eren with the con-
viction that the declaration should subject him to the
censure of the Hon. Member for Westminster (cheers).
Mr. DENMAN said, it was a strange remedy to sug-
gest to Butt, to seed Mato the House of Lords to seek
redress when le complained of poverty.
The petition was then laid on the table. •
HUSH CATHOLIC PETITION.
Mr. BROUGHAM said he had given notice of his in.
tention to present a petition from the Roman Catholics
Of Ireland on Wednesday next, lint as he understood
it was not the usage of the House to move for a commit-
tee on the same day that a petition was presented, be
should present his petition on Wednesday, and move for
the committee on Thursday, if his honourable friend (Mr.
Hume) would postpone a motion of his, which 'Moil for
that day.
Mr. HUME consented, to postpone his motion, and
fixed it fur the lit of July.
COUNTY COURTS.
Mr. LENNARD, in pursuance of notice, moved.
" That a se set committee be appointed to consider the
returns o hid) had been made to this House on the 24th
Jinnary Ib2l, from the county Courtof Middlesex, with
la view to see whether the fees in the Hundred of Ossal-
ston could not bit diminished, and the sittings in the
other courts inerettsed."
Mr. CU KW EN opposed tl e motic:i.
Mr.(;. BENNET supported the motion for inquiry,
and said he thought the fees were too high.
The House thefi divided. The numbers were,;;---.llya,
IS —Noes, 44—Majority, 26.
NAVAL. PROMOTIONS. •
On oar re-edmission to the Gallery we found
Mr. HUME addressing the House in terms of eulogy epos
the exploits and character of the naval service, $n what he
meant to say, lie intended no offence to any naval officer, be-
cause lie he respected the service too mu. h to do so; bet
since the peace he considered that the Lords of the Adatis
rally had itegleoe I the services of old meritorious officers.
and plan, d th ir juniors, who were inexoerienced and Inca-
;table, over their heads. Nothing could be more grating
to the feeli•igs of a soldier or sailor than to be commanded
by those who had served under th..ir orders. If promotions
were to he matte, and the service kept op, the people of this
country had a right to haloe those those officers appointed
who might be found efficient In the time of need when it
should arrive. Ile should slew that this had not been dons.
and he shout.' be much surprised if it should be proved oa
the other side that his statement and views were erroneous.
Ile complained that the recommendations of the Finance
Committee of 1817, w th regard to the reductions of naval
superannuation' and officers on half-pay, had not been at-
tended to. Ile stated the number of naval officers in 16113
to be 3,1368. The Committee anticipated a reduction of five
per cent. per annum, which in seven years would have re-
duced the number one third. But it appeared there were
now 5,335, strewing a redaction of 310 only. T•iis was to
be accounted for by the Papers on the table, which sheaved
that there had been 905 steps or promotions since the peace.
Ile believed that in the appointments of Admirals there was
not one individual who had not deserved the reward by
length of service. But he complained of the flambee of the
other promotions, and of their having beef filled by officers
whose services had not entitled them, while others of long
standing had been looked over. He contended that an im-
proper influence was exercised, in the manner in which these
promotions were made by the Admiralty. The Admiralty
had an unlimited power of promotion, which ought to be
restricted. lit the Army there could only he as many offi-
cers appointed as would till up a battalion ; but in the Navy,
as lo..had said before, the power of appointing was unlimit-
ed: The consequence was, that, from calcutations he had
made, the number of officers now upon the list was far great-
er than would be necessary for every vessel in thepossession
of the country that could swim or not. In complaining of
the manner in which promotions had been made, he stated
that there had been 112 Post Captains appointed, and be
found that 40 of them had been posted from Lieutenants over
the heads of a great number of old and meritorious officers.
He acknowledged the facility with which the Admiralty
had given him the necessary information for his motion,
and expressed his intention of bringiag it forward as
fairly as possible, without making it a party question.
He believed, indeed, that he should meet with more opposi-
tion on his own side of the House, than from Honourable
Gentlemen opposite. The Honourable Member then named
several office-s who had been posted over their superiors is
standing since the peace. He particularly remelted upon the
cases of Lord Henry Frederick Thynne, and the Honour-
able Frederick Spencer. The former he stated to have been
posted over 3,350 lieutenants, and e 73 commanders; sad
that almost without having set his foot on board ship. He
had served four years, and a great part of that time *it'll
a guard ship, so that he might be said to have scarcely hem
afloat. Ile was, however, appointed to a ship. which wee
not yet built, but was upon the stocks at Madras. The Hoe.
Frederick Spencer was promoted over the beads of SAS
lieutenants aft.:r the peace; and, in 1923, he was postedoerr
the heads of Thecommanders. These he consPe-ed to bevel
strong cases, and he wished them to be Impressed strongly
upon the House. Lord Henry Frederick Tili)nne was two
years and five months at sea, and then made Post Captain to
command old and meritorious officers. Tue Hon. Frederick
Spencer, it appeared, was appointed at sea, according to
the convenient method of invaliding: and he found ttat
there were now two Lieutenants ander him, who were lila
officers when he was a boy. He .mentioned several other
names of officers who had been advanced these three Op
since the peace. Among them he fouud the name of Airs
Johnson three times ; and when he saw three song of a Led
of the Admiralty so promoted. it was impossible to Of
that promotion did not depend upon favour and influence:-
After going through the appointor nts of Lieuteaaste 011
Commanders since the peace, and contending that the 1100
disregard of seniority and service had been there observe,
he came to the subject of employment.. At such tints Islas
Coronation, he should have no objection to amploymentabo
lug given, provided there was smarming Moan attention*
the claims of Officers by seniority, so that they "honk be
taken by seniority or nearly so. And at the time applies'
lions were mode to the Admiralty. and assurances *ere el!!!
that the senior Officers of merit would he employed.' PP
when the time tame it was found that what the Lords et
Admiralty meant by seniority was a seniority rifst=
since the peace. 'There were 37 Commanders thew
and how many old Officers would it bethought wereemegeg
them ? At least half wired be thought a resisgealdo req.