The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-04-17 00:00:00

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No. 1291.

IMPERIAL 114 ItLIAME Nl'.

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planation on a question of privilege, but they have
entirely suppressed the explanation itself. These
two Honou.sable Gentlemen's characters fortu-
nately place them above such paltry resentment as
this is; they are men who are entitled to treat it
with the most sovereign contempt ; but although
this be matter of indifference to those Honourable
individuals, it is by no means matter of equal in.
difference to the public; for, if the proceedings
of this House are to be reported at all, it is essen-
tial that they should be reported fairly, fur all the
information which is conveyed to the public of
what transpires in this House should be impartially
and fairly given. Gentlemen must feel, that by
suppressions of tbif kind, the whole report of the
proceedings must be vitiated, and the permission
of this Ilouse to let its proceedings be reported, is
set at nought, and totally defeated. Sir, itop-
prcssion of this kind be permitted, I clo.#ol know
where it is to end. These Gentlemen, if they
please, may lake umbrage at any man, and at any
description of men iu this House, and totally sup..
press all they say, whilst they detail every thing
that is said by another description of men. Sir, I
say that this is nit a fair manner of reporting our
debates in this House; for what is the conse-
quence ? all information given to the public by ;
these defective reports has the effect.of a false re.
port ; for by suppressing what has been said by!
certain individuals, the public are imposed on—a i
false impression is made on the public mind, of the
nature of discussiOns in this House; and if this
house is to depend on a combination of these peo-
ple, who, as I said before, may or may not be go-
verned by good principles, and whose efforts may
be directed to the very worst and most mischievous
purposes—l declare, Sir, that Ido not now make
any formal complaint of this abusive practice;
but I do hope that to those who have heard what
I have said, it may be a sufficient warning. If
.not, let them remember, that,the House does pas-.
Ms means to vindicate its privileges, and to
iike its Orders respected—and if this be not a
"roper warning, I shall call on the House to re-
fer-to a measure that may be adapted, most effec.
5444 fur the purpose, for this is a dangerous
practice. I trust I shall meet with the support of
tite House, and of Gentlemen of every description;
for those who think the publication of our de.
debates' altogether dangerous, must think them
most dangerous by their _,being misrepresented.

HOUSE OF LORDS, Arm 16.

Too Committee of Privileges on the Roxburgh Peerage,
Broaghas was heard at the bar conclusively in behalf of
tady Cues Ker, aid the further consideratiou deferred to
ti.morrow.
smeat Billy, chiefly private. were brought up from the
commons and read the tirst Bane.
Lord DONOUGHNIORE gave notice, that he should
love for the taking into consideration, on the 2lst et* May
nest, the various petitinzu from the Catholics of Ireland,
which were lyipg on the table.
INFERIOR CLERGY.
Lord HARROW BY laid on the table, returns of the An-
nual Incomes not exceeding 15)l. of the Clergy of the Estab •
lobed Church.
Ld. ROLLA ND repeated what he had before felt it his duty
toolae.t,touching the propriety,antLunder Inc present circum-
owcs of the country (pressed as it was on all sides with •ex-
cessire burthens) the necesiity of a farther diselosdre tame the
opera eau presmlt:sl could neford far the hiforniatiou of the
)1,,,0e on the subject to which those papers related.
Lord HARROW BY contended, as had done before,
for the sufficiency of the preseut documents for the object
proposed.
Lord HOLLAND again rose, end, professing the utmost
&terrace an.l respect for the whole order of the Clergy,
gtaiutaised, that at a period When the public hurthens were so
weighty, and whe ante impoverished laity were about to be
clued upon to :ulv 10140001. to the Church, it would well
become the advocates of the measure, to show how far the
Church establishment was dot efficient for its own due mainte-
nance, and whether incidental deficiencies in the income of
the subordinate Clergy, would not more readily, more pro-
revenuen name naturally. be supplied by the superabuudant
of the higher clerical orders, than from the over-
drawn aad aboo-t exhausted purse of the industrious laity.
• wm. chart,. of tipn, that those incidental applications
P strhameot were improper, and that one rational and
cananutioatil establishment should be funned. And such tin
areugewent, notwithstandiug suggestion which had been
uttered by the Noble Lord (Ilarroivby) opposite, be thought
o tuld come witu peculiar fitness and efficacy from that
• the deliberatious of which would have the full ad-
saiitage of the leamsing and wisdom of the Reverend Bench.
Lord LAUDERDALE proposed a clause in reference to
the Order of the House, ou the subject of confiscated estates
in Scotland, which was agreed to.
Tate Bills on the Table. mutt of them- private, went
th;Jugh their several readings, and the atm- adjourcieli.
•

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Arass,f4 • -*••
•
A new Writ was ordered to be made nut for St: German's,
to the room .f Sir Joseph Sydney Yorke, vacated by his If-
cepunee u. the Chiltern Hundred,.
The Irish Coroners' Bell was read a second time, and or•
erred or be committed to-morrow.
The ]rub Post Rorris' Bill was read A third time, and
passed. •
Mr. PR F.NDEROAST put otT his notice bf motion re-
spertiiic the Expedition to Macao to the Bth May.
the LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND brought up '
Bill to alter the mode of extractinc decrees from the Court
of Ses,ion in Scotland, which was read a .first time, add or-
dered t•• be read a second time on the first day of May next.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCO TLAND brought up a
Bet to abridge the mode of extructin; decrees from the
Court of Aameralty and the Commissarial Court, which was
read a first time, and ordered m be read a second time on the
third day of o,a,y neut.
Mr. ROO moved, that anseemint of the MOW espewill.
tare of the British Museum be laid no the table.—Ordered.
The House went into a Committee, to consider of the
priation of sugar and entree from Goad drupe.
Mr. ROSE moveti, " T'aat the saws, Ac. unmated from
Coadaloupe, be !objected to the sauce duties as attached to
sirsilar articles imparted from other islands iu the West-
Indies."
Atter some observations from Mr. M kRRYATT, Mr.
BARIIAM, :sad Sir T. TUftTON, the Resolution was pat
and ;tercel to, r..id the Report ordered to be brought up to-
morrow.
Mr. BRAND gave notice, that he would, after the recess,
tohroit a Motiou reipecting the Itepresentatiou of the People
is Parliameut. time, tlfli
The lankeeperi Provision Bill was read a third
Paned.
REPORTING. •
Mr. WALLACE called the attention of the
House to the object of reporting the debates of
this House. Ile complained of the manner in ,
which the report of the speech of a Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir John Anstruther) had been reported
in a Morning Newspaper a few days ago, which,
he alleged, was misrepresented in such a manner
as that the meaning was perverted. Ile said it had
of late become a.n occasional practice for Report.
ers to suppress some matters which passed, and to
add some tlyt did not pass in debate in that
House; and if this practice was permitted to go
on without interritption, no Member of the House
of Commons, who wished to stand well in the es.
timation of his Constitspoits or of the public, could
be assured tbat he should do so, however pure his
intentions might he ; fur he must be at the mercy
of a set of people who hail entered into a combi.
• nation to report in what way they pleased—a
set of people (sail' the Hon. Member) who ars
suffered to conic here, and who are governed by
motives (very good ones perhaps) which may be
very bad ones ; and I would ask the House whe-
tlim. this be the tenure on which it wished to hold
its character, either with reference to the opinion
of its particular constituents, or of the public ?
This, Sir, is the first point to which I wish to call
the attention of the House. There is another sub.
ject to which I wish also to call their attention ;
it relates to two Members of this House, which,
although I have had no conversation with them on
the subject, I think ought to be brought forward
for the consideration of the House ; for it seems
to me to deserve equally with the other subject the
serious consideration of the House. Every body
who has read the reports of the debates of this
House for some time past, must have observed
that the rirports of them arc given with very consi-
derable additions. :Persons who profess to give
the debates of this House have presumed to take
offence at the imbibe conduct of certain Gentlemen
who arc among the most conspicuous in the debates
of this House, and have thought proper to sup.
puss every sentence which has been uttered by
these Hoilutirchle Members, and this resolution
thy have carrit.il to such a length, that.; because
an explanation which yourself, Sir, gave upon a
very gray t• and important subject, deeply affect-
ing the priviLges of this House, happened to arise
out of so observation made by one of those Ho.
nourable Members, they have suppressed the
whole of it—that is, they have nut only sup.
Pressed the observatious which cal 'al for your es.

IT. IS FOR . . ENT.
ING THAT WHICH IS INTENDED FOR
THEIR, INFORMATION BEING MISRE.
PRESENTED AT ALL; AND REALLY IT
IS A MATTER IN WHIT 11 THEY ARE
MOST DEEPLY INTERESTED." • •
Mr. WORTLEY (as we understood) said, that
this combination must he broken through, for the
public will not suffer that reports of the proceed-
ings of the House of Commons should be thus
defectively given. He hoped some Paper would
stake the matter tip properly, and• report the
speeches of all Members fairly ; if any Paper should
do so, he should be glad to support it. [Order,
order !]
Mr. SPEAKER--" The Honourable Gentle-
man must be aware, that this is an irregular con-
versatiou."
Here the matter dropped, and here it rests for
the present.
Lord COCHRA'NE postponed his two no-
tices, which stood fur this day, until
.Weduesday
next.
Pltp/ATE•STEALING.
Sir SAMUEL itOMILLY postponed, until
Tuesday, the Ist of May next, the further con.
sideration of the three Bills, which he had brought
in upon the subject of private stealing from the
person, stealing from the dwelling.house, and
stealing on navigable rivers.
JOIIN'GALE JONES.
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY rose, in pursuance
of the notice he had given, to move, he said,
That Julio Gale Jonec,• who is now a prisoner in
Newgitte,. under the authority of this House,
may be discharged. " Although the opinion that
I delivered in the House on the subject of the le-
4ality of that imprisonment remains quite unal-
tered with me, it is not my object, to call on the
House to discharge him front his imprisonment on
any of the grounds which I submitted formerly on,
that subject, but on the simple ground that the
punishment which he has suffered is sufficiently
severe for the offence which he has committed.
am extremely anxious that this should be well un-
derstood by the House, and that my motion was
made exactly vu. the same facts as those which
were detailed to the House on the 12th of March
last ; on that day there were several Gentlemen
who declared they would have voted for this mu.
due, if the Hon. Mover of it (Sir F. Burdett)
had not proposed it on grounds to which the
House could not accede. For the Worthy Barn.
act had insisted on it, and had made that the;
ground of his motion, that the imprisonment in-'
tide instance was illegal ; and therefore certain
Gdntletnen, who were ready to accede to the mo.
tiCtil on the ground of the imprisonment being
equal to the offence, would not accede to it en
the ground that the imprisonment was illegal; be-
cause that would give counlcnisuce to a doctrine
from which those Gentlemen dissented. Nothing
at all that I shall say upon this subject can de.

.

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prove me of a single votefrom these who objected -
to the motion bectuse made on the alleged illega.
lity of the commitment ; for I shall rest my mo-
tion on the single ground which I have stated, and
which I may perhaps be pardoned for repeating,
that of the imprisonment being fully equal to the
crime which the individual has committed. I
should, indeed, have been extremely glad to have
an opportunity, if I could take it with propriety,
of explaining some things I said on this subject on
a former occasion, which have been misunderstood
by some persons, and greatly, though uninten.
tionally, misrepresented. I should be extremely
glad to avail myself of an opportunity to answer
some arguments I have heard urged on (hat sub.
ject, and to explain some thingi which have been
misconceived by many, and some, perhaps, by
myself : but that opportunity the presetit Hats*:
this question does mut twigwiarly afford me ;. sod I
will not risque the security of the liberty of an
individual for a single hour for such an object as
that of supporting my own opinion on a point
which I am determined shall not. arise • from any•l
shalt urge on. the present question. I desire it to
be understood, therefore., that I make the motion
which I am about to submit to the House, un
the*ingle ground that the puoisbonent which the
individual has suffered in this instance, is at
least, sufficiently severe for the offence of which
he has been guilty. I cannot see any objection
to my motion, unless it be this—that hitherto it
has been the practice of the House, that, when.
ever a person commits any act which amounts to
a breach of the privilege of this House, the Hones
will not listen to any application on his part, but
a petition presented by himself, or on his behalf,
coming from himself, in which he shall acknow.
ledge the justice of the sentence, pronounced upon
him, nod expressive of his contrition for the of.
fence which he has committed. That I understand
to be the general practice of the House. I am
not aufficietrtly acwinted with the proceedings
of the House, to know that it is the invariable
practice of the House, that the House will not
listen to any application on the part of an indi-
vidual, although acknowledging the justice of Iris
sentence, end expressing his sorrow for his of.
fence, unless that application be founded on his
petition to the—House. I do not know that it is
not in the power of the House, or competent to
any individual Member of the House, not acting
ft-, -41 the - tit of the offender, and not liar.
Lion with him, but proceeding
motives, from a sense of ins..

to call for the discharge of an
every body admits has suffered
lishment as his offence can pus.
for. Ido not know this Ilouse
ought, any more than other human tribunals, to
forget the great and leadiug principle of the ad-
ministration of justice. I think this House, as
well as every.other tribunal under Heaven, should
recollect that maxim which we all have heard, and
on which we should all act—that in administering
justice, we should take care that it shall be jus-
tice tempered with mercy.—l think, therefore,
that we should not, for the sake of preserving
the established usage of the House, on a question
touching our own privileges, do that which is sub-
stantially unjust, and refuse to discharge en indi..
victual, whom every body admits to have been al.
ready sufficiently punished for his offence, merely
because that individual had not petitioned for jus-
tice ; fur if that were so, it would be difficult in-
deed to justify the proceedings of this House;
for why should this House, or why should any
human tribunal say, that it will not be satisfied
with a punishment which itself admits to be suffi-
cient for the offence ; butahould call on the of.
fender to abjure his error ; •to say that what ho has
done is contrary to la*; telly ° that the's:Tinian
which be has meintainedlattealvary to the
aides Of. the Constitution, even althottglehe may
be unable to think so ? I do'not know on Whet:
principle this .doctrine can be asaintaleted ; it Is
not any part of the practice ettny other arlbm.'
oal, in which justice is alininliteted, to persist is
,a prosecution, which others may call pergcce.
tion, in this manner, and. fur such' a reason.
—I believe that we have not many loess.;
cations instituted against 'individuals for their spiffi,
culative opinions fur any thing, eseept f•Jr• bpi
',haus, upon religions subjects, and we have,
believe, had Rune of them since the Reformation ;
and even when that tribunal did proaectHe indivi-
duals fors their opinions upon religious subjects,
it was justly observed of these prosecutions, that
they made hypocrites where they could not make
converts; but arc we to Oil for a renunciation
of error before we will administer jnstice ? Let
us recollect what it is that has been brought before
this House, that it is only a libel, and that we
have proceeded against the author of it •as for u
breach of privilege. Now, if this individual had
published it as his opinion that the form of the
Cinistitution of England was a pureanottarchy—
.that the other two branches of the legislature were
emancipation. from the Crown—that they might
be lopped off and. cast into the fire, but the tree
would be st tree still, for that the head, and there.
,fore the Constitution, remaihed. •[This was an
allusion to a pamphlet published Many years ago.
by Mr. Reeves, for which the House of Commous
did not prosecute him as fora breach of privilege),
but caused him to be prosecuted by the Attorney-
General, which he was, and acquitted b.) a jury]
,and mu:tined, properly speaking, unimpaired.
Would the House • say that such an individual
ought to be committed to Newgatc for a breach of
the privilege of this House; and that he must ra.

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Those who think the publication of our debates i from the suggestion
beneficial, will think also, that the benefit depends j ing any communical
upon the truth of that publication, and THE entirely frum other
puaLtc mak'. *IL( L, TUXr lE4O* sur4iii wow
MYATT NAVE tiortinb. AT, SURJECTS bunal upon earth, t
THEM TO SOME PRIVATIONS, IT IS individual whom c.
TOR THEIR BENEFIT IT IS DONE; FOR, quite as much punis'
11T IS FOR THE PURPOSE OF PREVENT. itibly have called fol