The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-06-07 00:00:00

THE- .STATESMAN .

codease Trarthinttfiwther Were he called ea todoelflued-oarie
whether he would grant the whole player of the( titithism.ile
should say nn; but he was decidedly for enterbiglislit • Coot-
.mittee, for which he was coolideat that his Nellie Fvieods
absent unfortunately through indisposition (Lord Gienville)
worild have voted, had he been present; for which the speech 1
of the noble Earl, who preceded him, feraished the strongest
arguments, since it appeared that he had particular arrange-
ments to pr.lpose, which in that Committee could be best con-
sidered. flit Lordship then paid high compliments to Lord
Oreoville's letter to Lind Fin* and quoted several pebtaget
from Mr. Burke's letter to Sir Hercules Laurrrislre, i ngriolte, n winch
that great man, who shrunk like the seiwitive plant from .any
thing that bordered, in his mind, oneself% or dangerous inno-
vation, so • far from looting on this subject in such a light, ma-
nifested his warmest friendship for it so the most interesting
terms. He had stated the dreadful erect of so unsay snilliom
of fellow subjects in a state of conipitratire degradation, tit
only to become the inoranient of a wise despot, or in other
circuuntunres the agents of a terrible' revulsion. He con-
Hu rd! by iiiipressin,g forcibly upon Noble Lords the jus-
tice and propriety of goiug into the Committee.
- -

The LORD CIIANCF.LLOR said, he rose early in the
debate to express his sentinients on this Important question.
He never could consent logo to the extent of the prayers er
demands of those petitions, or to hazard a material alteration
in that Constitution and State. which bad been made by oar
ancestor:- a Protestant Constitution and State. and under
which, ever since the year 1683, all the parts of this kingdom
had enjoyed a greater share of political happiness than had
ever fallen to the lot of any nation. He might he celled a
bigot, and perhaps a monk, for supporting the Protestant
religion: he wished this grave question to be. gravely and
temperately discussed: he should use no herd words, for be
klt too much in such cases himself, to use such words to
others. • He did not mean to say that there was no mode, no
arrangement, or composition on this subject to which he could
bring his mind to agree; but be did say that in all he had
read, or heard, or seen, on this subject, tie had yet met with
nothing of that kind. He admitted the Noble Earl (Clamors
ty) had made a stronger speech (in opposing the motion) for
going into a Committee, than the Noble Earl who brought
forward the motion; hut he maintained, that it would be idle
and dangerous to go into such Committee without knowing
previously what was to he proposed, or what the Petitioners
would be pleased to accept. He commented on the totter of
Lard Grenville (fora horn he professed a high respect) to
Lord Fingal,which stated, that" much was to be dooe," and
many complicated measures adopted in the way of concessiot
and wished to knot, what was meant by "much to bedone.
In this important business.- As, therefore, lie could not leant
that any thing practicable was to he proposed, he should ob-
ject to a Committee on these Petitions. He meant tin re-
dection on the Catholics; but if no conscientious Catholle
could give the necessary guards and securities to the Estab-
lished Church (that of the Veto be censidered absolutely.
nothing), he must say that no dishonest man could be a good
subject.
Lord HOLLAND contended, with great animation, in fa-
vour of considering the Petitions, which claimed what he
should sever consent to call a bona, since it was only the
birth-right of a British subject that am sated. The Noble
Lord euterua into a great variety of argument and illustration
in support of the motion, and pictured in strong colours the
moral. and politi .0 effects produced upon the minds of the
whole body of IM Irish Catbelks, by these degradie;gexclu-
goat. The infection spread far and wide. We boasted of
our Nelsons and St. Vincent.: but they must say, we are
,'
never to be in the list of the heroes of our country. DOT to.
share in her bight honours and rewards. Thus emulation, and
a noble ambition to serve their common country. was destroy-
ed ; anti they were left to seek in foreign service, those pat
of distinction and glory which were dosed to them system.
The Duke of NORFOLK wished to sec the Church sod 1
State of England strengthened by the additional security of
the affections of four millions of people. He would vote for
going into the Committee.
The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE opposed the mil.
tion. He was convinced, the greatest danger would arise
from the proposed concessions.
Lord BORINGDON was of opinion, it would be ea.
tre,mely imprudent to throw open the door to debate on this
question, and to excite expectations. w bleb vroeld certaisly.
be disappointed. He professed himself, notwithstanding, is
be favourable to the principle of the. Catholic claim, if
• brought forward under other circumstances. oi
Lord De DUNSTANVILL& was agAnst going into the
Committee.
Earl GREY apologized to the House far troubling them
at so late 4111 hour.. The allusion, however. that had been
made by a Noble and Learned Lord to the letter of a Noble
Baron (Lord Grenville) now tinfortuaately absint. and the
very interesting nature of the subject, would
_justify him in
taking up a small portion of their Lordships' time. 'With
respect to the letter, he fully concurred its every sentiment it
contained. It never wa:. its stated by the Noble Lord on the
Woolsack, the intention of his Noble Friend to impose new li-
mits now on concessions, Which he would have formerly
granted without limits. Ile lamented that the question did
not come before the Howe tinder such fortunate circumstan-
ces as be had reason to expect, The Catholics had done se-
rims injury to their cause. They suffered themselves to be
misled by those who, he was fully persuaded, wished for
any thing but the success of the measure. Their impradenee,
however, should not prevent him from giving his vote for
going into the Committee. He would ask no other security
from the Catholics than what it was consistent with the prin-
ciples of their faith to give. They owed to their posterity to go
into the Committee, for they were responsible to tbemfor the
permanence and transmission of the Constitution. The prin-
ciples of exclusion, of which the Petitioners complained,
made no part ef the Constitution as settled at the Revolu-
tion. There was nothing stated in the Bill of Rights about
exclusion. The Noble Earl vindicated the Catholics against
the pernicious tenets imputed to them, of holding no faith
with heretics, and maintaining the power of deposing Mo-
narchs. Much of what we now possessed we owed to the.
Catholics. We owed to them our manly. brave, hospitable,
and halependenn character. We owed to them Magna
Charts, and the principles of all those rights and liberties
Iwe enjoyed at }this day. He implored the House to go
I lute the Committee, and to see whether it. was not pout-
' Me to relieve four millions of people groaning under op-
' preasion. It Was unnecessary to declare what they meant
to propose in the Committee; the existence of the evil
was vu6tieat to justify the measure. If the Catholics had
objections to concede the Vita, let them see whether some
I other mode of attaining the sante end could not be found;
whether humid not be done by domestic nomination. His
Lordship quoted the 411 i article of the Union to .spew that
some arrangement favourable to the Catholics was then in
contemplation. Ile also stated, that the opinions of two of
the greatest men the country ever produced, (Mr. Pitt and
Mr. Fox,) who bad heist _swept away within the last four
sears, as well as that of 'a third (Mr. Wiiidham), who was
now the subject of universal regret, were decidedly favour-
' able to the Catholic claims. The Noble Earl delivered, evi-
dently under the preiaare of the deepest regret, an admirable
panegyric on Mr. 'Windham, which was loudly and repeatedly.'
cheesed from all sides of the House.
. The Earl of LIVF.RPOOL opposed the motion, on-the
ground that it was agreed on alt bands that soiree security was
necessary to be given, and yet it was now clearly shevin that
no security coitld.be veu. •
Lord lt Ela LSD ALE spoke on the same side.
Lord DONOUGH.MORE replied shortly to the argu-
ments advanced against the quietism's and at Two o'clock this
tiorning the House divided, when the number) were—
For the Committee 66
Against it 181
—s6
Majority against Catholic EmailtipsOes
Adjourned.
Fur House of Commons, ors hat Page.]

971. V

•(..•• ' •'• • r r •

w «4~• •• ~~w ~ ~ +

;

.

~..Y

‘-
•
•

- - - ..
.. --
- . es.

_

P.
Dujuratir Custstax.Atio.-r-Ili4 aighitess
'has Pesseddn.9olll' 1004 aa4 kitting alas.
•
happily as possible.
- • s• •
Twelve o'pock. • • ... 11E. itYAIAt. r
• The following article from a Charleston.rapirr:!
announces the melancholy •fact..of the toss
ship in which General 111,Liow•As.c. sailed .frowl
adiCof eierit s&lba; bear baying perith,
1;11,:-.-64 Cenci's! BILDO*ALL had Filled iu t 711.3a0
Tor tiyitaiiil but hipi .been wrecked Wi the island l.
•Midigascar;linid we regret to add',:ifial 'tout.
son beard parialsaL":
ilresterdavtliss jessitador consinqieedat tise.olll.
Bajley bifore ,the. ht 'Honotrearae, tips.
Maybr, Mr. jUstine Grose,. Rayon Grabtrartile
Recorder, &c. s'victi thirteen persons were tried, ' ••
live of whom were, 4apitally convicted. . .-;•
A passenger on board a trading ship just arrived
from. Cadiz, informs di, thatJOSErig BONAP#Ittr
a had very narrow escape is his late journey from
Grenada to Madrid. A number of. armed
,pea.
rants, In order to intercept him, concealed them,
selves its the Sierra Morena, and net a sudden made
their appearance, and discharged several rounds. -
Some of the halls pierced his carriage, and killed
two of hitattendants, but the principal design was
not amsomplisbed.

Considerable preparations are uskieg at Wool.
wich, fin. the immedieto embarkation of a large
qvatitity of cosronevx's rockets to be -sent to
Sicily.. A curious mortar has also been invented,
the use of which is to be first tried in Sicily. It is
so contrived, that a number may be. fixed in the
harginf a man of war,. and thereby produce most
destructive comeequenees to the enemy, where
a large vessel cannot approach.
Letters•from Dunkirk were received yaterday
morning, to the date of Monday last. BONA-
' PARTE had left that place, on his journey to
1-Rouen ; and a report prevailed, bet we believe
without foundation, that his first measure on his •
return to Paris would be, to declare •War against
rthe United States of America: • • -°.
Letters have reached us fuels Petersburgh, to
Aire recant date of the.loth ult. . -A general Peace
was no longer expected in that. Capital. Colonial
...produce was extremely low In price, and almost •
ettsaletbic—Hemp and other Russian articles had • •
- iisent bietallowing for the difference in the Es.
c•
hey might he considered at nearly the
bnigc—i
9
jib° rate as during the last year. .
.. ~ •••
erie..
.Te-Mw, the Freeholders, of Middlesex are
conveners by the SEIZRITIS to 'ewe at-the; Mer-
maid, in Hackney, to take into libisiderilien the
steps necessary to be taken by.thit County, in
consequence of their*Petition havlatbecn reject-
ed by the House of COMRSOUS. '
_d
ROCHESTER MEETINO.—In consequence, OT Ind
refusal of the Mayor of Rochester to accede to the
wishes of a respectable number of his fellow "chi.
zens, to convene a Common Hall, notice was
given that a meeting would be held under the
GUildhall of the city of Rochester, at half past
six o'clock on Monday evening. Several waggons .
awl carts were placed under the Hall in the after.
noon, to which temporary railings wore affixed,
and otolerably commodious hustings was compos.
ed of them. At six o'clock the space under the
Hall, and the adjoining part of the street, became
filled with the citizens and inhabitants. About
half put sit, J. Houtes, Esqt and a large party
of his friends, arrived, when it was proposed by
Mr. LARKIN, and seconded by Mr. COOPER,
' that Mr. litmus should take the Chair, which
was immediatelr.asseitted to. Several Resolutions
ileprecatint the late prooemilnis relatiVe to Sic
Faaitel Attnnwer and Mr. GAL; Jones, were
ttiteretk ato, and sp Address to the House of
• Centimes on the tebjed was unanimously voted.
• •Extract of a Lotter from the late Right no- .
neurable WILLIAII WINDItAtt to Sir J. C.Hzepss.
LEY', Bart, prerlocis to the Debate on the Catholic
Question, in 18D13:0
"The short argument that in this, min other eases, yon •
most chase between dangers t and that the danger to
oliag
be apprehended filar the Catholics of Ireland to their
present state, is greaserthes any that can be supposed to arise,
in whatever tenth of due, out or the increase of their present.
privileges. If the Privatise neeesearyin the State, (as it Is) - '
she State mast be acknowledged to hempen), necessary to the
Church; and what is to become of the Church of Wand,
should England itself be lost ? or how shall Enellesstisd be main-
tained, if 'the French should seta permanent foot in Ireland,
the condition of Ireland is, for the greater part o its impala-
bolopnpala-
oi, that oraiort of semi-barbarism ; which now only keeps
that country in a depressed state, deprived for the greater
part, of those advantages.. wnirb ukture steam to have
intendid'for it, but renders it, in the present eircuinstances-of
the world, a source of continued and inuitioeni danger to
us. This depressed and disordered state deems to have
been. altogether predated by the .system of laws and go*
•vernasent adopted originally, perhaps necessnrily, but
3ince continued unnecessarily.w ith respect- to the ICatbo-
, lles,witbout converting. theta, the :only operation of these
i'laws has been to brutalize and barbarise them. reit-
.dering them, at the same time, our' eisernles.7---Of these
laws the greater part have during • the pretest re,gn •
been repeated; and upon the same vrinciple, as also with is .
:,view to.coovey to the Catholic's TB& Sass. LED 'TACTIC.% t, ,
. passrur .or WELT, SAS. ALREADY SEltlt noes' toe '
'THEM, it would be right-ht my noiolos -to repeal the r.•-•
Issainder. The danger etsueivepeat, even at antperioll tho•
Most distant, I cannot persuade myself, to be, any at elk If
ilke Churrk of England is ever pi be overturned, or uudei--
mined, it will-nate by the Catholics, but by sects of slat
.different descriptir- or by pumas Ono .religloo übsteite.

7....~T

✓J:
.

11l

r.--