The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-06-24 00:00:00

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eing a great grievances on the lowerDeese.,e'"
ayntile
forlate Mr. Perceval himself
public, and his conduct shown in its true ego rotjer eadon : sand it was an nbathastoo, which best came was.confideut
thh that a very generatcan*Tdlows;
country, and thatth Clergy
ceodmhmuhration. The
from his side of the house, that when.% Government I light. With respect to the motion, of Which notice
bad been given by the Noble Marquis, itahould have got entangled in a series of sures of the policy
be glade(' some
magnitude of
$
4i cordial support. lie regretted sly mec easily of .1)f etillich eien they themselves were not . convinced
totihfetievil was admitt f•sf
OKittpething the considiritione till next . mien, but he was persuaded, that the fear of' an iffejudged trig
4e thernsegees wool.(
it wee impossible to litingforward the 'ect imam- timph on thispert of their usual opponents, sometimes who had projected
aketely. Ilnalould undenhely support motto° for operated. as a reason for their not retracing their tithe system, butwho t an alters inn iu es''
pledging the House to take it into consideration early steps. He trusted, that the present repeal would supposed difficulties.
. dropped it in coaseq . ice of
culees in Mr. Pitt's speech
in *Nosiest Sentinel; satisfied that the-object. of 'twat have thergfect orreitoThig the trade an-a maid. . Union,1 ' ea+ that important authority confessed on
tile
of vital importatsce to the State.. As totthe slidAily 'torus of the conatry.,• Vs* the measure would pro- were a great practical evil •
of the Protestant Establishment,. which formed part duce a proper coeciliatory effect on the American zeal withwhich in Ireland ; and from hire
that speech was circulated by
ef, the intended thotion, he would say, that the Pro. .Councile, 04 week' •be met by that Govern ;•N the
• obis, Lord opposite, it was reason
testant Establisincant had sots warmer or amore sea. %with a corre,epoteling dispe 't* st ton. On this.sobject • that some arrangements, ele to eye
as to tithes, wools im t
lous. frielid than himself, and any ' secorittes that he entertained an doubt; but if the case she* be - -
, ilmen the consequence of 1 • • • -34
could be delieed should meet his ready support ...but otherwise* be vial 4e tut man in the country who - The tithe system a esgieutive Union.
he must*, 'that in his opinioo, the stability Of the would mew (hit oar- Governmentoughtnot to.be En . was by no means the same me
s
England as in Ireland. In tlte first
Protestent Establishment would be best •seeitred`
'by' 4upporl .4—VP* isebr'7] -He trusted that the people who paid •
a tithes here were place, e
m, 1
the esetiteiratqhsce of illthe dOebil`ttles under which negocladous oh Toots' hhtween the two countries,'
me tee,
goon as the Clergy to whom they
itheCattalics htboured, takings, the best security their would nos/ rotmest —Ruder the most . favourable , Ireland the proportion of Prot were paid. Is
states to the :
oaths efallegiaucee and their acknowledged loyalty to auspices. •: • ,- - • -• ' the population was Ito 10, e • res of
the State. He thought also that a similar rilief should Lord CAMEREAGR that it should tion according computing the pepcla.
. declared, to Butte, Chalmers,
be extended, snot only to Catholics, batte all classes always area himself and his colleagues the greatest to be five millions. -With and Newmhen,
of Disseetete: With respect, however, to what was gratification, to tam, am
, ' T'Gavettlitiant had been before! the House it wa this extraordinary fact
s eery much to the credit of
more immediately the subject—the Catholics, be was able to condeakself iiile Wilitiii was satisfactory : the. Catholics,- thate they
decidedly of 'opinion, that a repeal of all the disabi- to Geattlemen opposite, andlotsO,' lie trusted, to the ! a •the • against tithe s were not the Petitioners
system. Their policy wa •
. s not to
Wise under which they laboured, without any doubt, 'country at large.L--(11-ar ia e . —Re felt obliged to the !giro offence, or to etiberrass their great cause,
suspicion, or jealousy, would form the best security*Honeurable and Learned entleman, for th .hand- 41 muddling with the •
affairs of the Church. The
for the Protestant Establishment, and the, best safe- some terms in Which he had expressed himself ,•,,and- did' nest,
, k erotica between the tithe system here and is Ire
-
guard to the State—in the removal of all those dig- at the same ttme, stoat ise allowed to add, that the 'And wes,the unsettled rat •the ir--
es mu latter. There
contents and incitements to disunion which these die• measure, as nosi adopted, was not entirely foreign t `was, 'fend,
in- fact, ' p
no uniform system through the dile
abilities oceittdned. • • . the mode in which it was originally intended'to ope- tereut 'booties; a great deal was left to the caprice
Earl STAN HOPE. gave notice • that 'he should ! rate. A conditional suspension of the Oitlers. in.' of individuals in levying them, and murh of th
evitlith the
.two succeeding day:
,uaiiiie a day for the I Council, certainly was at first thought of e hilt as it-i pression under which the landholder labourede op.
second reading of his Bill for the relief of Protestant I was stated from most; respectable quarters in that I to be traced to this Pease. next difference was
Disienters, after the discussion on the motion of 1 House that the " • "i
England
. The was
, word_
.tmapension vies not to he ; the collection. In England the farmer had recourse to
which the Noble Marquis had given notice. • found in any of;the restriction laws of America, and' a jury in case of dispute with the clergyman; imi Ire.
The Earl of DARNLEY said a few words vela.of land, allsuch
' that the obligation miller, to repeal her m
I easurq
tine toeenotice formerly given by a Noble Earl of au i,_ Non-Intercourse, might not be found so strong, un- •ae ecclesiastical jurisdiction. The lion. Gem'
Intended motion on the State of the Nation, wishinglless a revocation took place.• Government thought I then quoted the case of a Mr. Battersb , a Cie,n7
to know whether it was intended to be bought for-' that the decision of America ought not to be left a' man, who made a newelematid of whatrb.-
$ be called ta.
ward ?
Earl GROSVENOR said he did not now Intend' Orders in Council.--[llear, h I] St 11, in I kitchen-pots hof •
, car . i , one i c en-pots a poor cottager for this family-.noner
4. -
to bring forward the motion which he had formerly sense, the measure might be called a suspension in- I A Court of Justice, however, • ', afterward sdisallowed
mentioned relative to the State of the Nation, there/ astench Its it would remain iu the power of this coun-9 '
the .-Clergyman's claim, and proved how unsettled
beiug no point now remaining unconceded by Miele.. try to resume the Orders, provided the American : was thesystem on which he acted : every considera.
tem, esiceptiieg that respecting which a notice had Government thought proper to retract itsaleclara, ; tion, in fad, which he could gird to the subject, con.
now been give° bythe Noble Marquis (Wellesley). tions. At the same time, in the spirit of conciliation, vinced him more and more, how necessary it was to
The Duke of NORFOLK gave notice that in the I Government had thought proper to give the repeal a ! relieve the landholder iu Ireland from the pressure of
discussion on the Noble Marquis's motion, he should ; retrospective operation, to take date from the mo- I tills system. His plan was to appoint Commissioners
urge the immediate consideration of the laws affecting ! meta when the French decree of recal was. first pre- I to compute the value of the 1" hit es throughout he.
his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, particularly I sented to them. ' . Viand, and then to substitute a county Land-tat
after the Resolutions recently passed by the Catho- Mr. BARING thought that the mease' re now so I, for them until lands could be otitaiited for the
lics stating their demand of unconditional comes- happily announced was calculated to produce,the'' Clergy. lie would therefore move, "Co •
that
a Committee
sion. most salutary effects. Government, it appeared to Ibe appointed, early in the next Session, to take into
The Lords were ordered to be summoned for Wed. him, had acted with the greatest propriety and good 'consideration the state of the law with
respect to the
nesday next. sense; for, as the Orders in Council wereto be given Tithes in Ireland."
The House then went into a Committee on the up, it' was infinitely better to do it at once liberally Mr. ,W-,POLE had examined with atteution all
Curates' Bill, where it underwent considerable din- and unconditionally. He beliered that the-coltinser- the plans* which had been propoeeds but could find
cussion.—Adjourned. dal, mauafacturing, anti every other interest in the
.;no practical remedy for the evil complained of. The
country, would derive the greatest benefit from thin object was, to relieve the peasantry of Ireland; but
step.; and he had now to express the great obligations 4 hi every plan he had yet seen their burtheits would
which the country owed to the indefatigable exer- !be iocreased instead of diminished. Au acreable tar
tioui of his Hon.. and Learned Friend, throughout omens tilled ground would make the owners of
the whole of the enquiry; and to the almost iu-'l Poor ground pay as much as the owners of the most
equalled ability with which he had conducted it to ' fertile ground and the fiuest crops. If any conimu-
this satisfactory conclusion. Pear,. hear) Wlthltation was to go upon time principle of an &Isolate
regard to the American Government,eve thought-that. tenth of the value of the produce, the farmers must
they at least ought to be. satisfied with this armogee lose, asAhey do not now pay in the proportion of
mut ; and he had no doubt thiekhey would beim its 1-‘loth eti•oior the kingdom. Ile traced the suffer-
reality, nor attemptilowfe isntio4 any terms incon. ings of the poor, not to the tithes, nor to the pro-
sistent with their fordierdetlataticits, or the honour prietors of the laud, but to the jobbers, or land-
'of Ilnglanit, pirates, as they were often cubed in Irel lim I 'ryes
Sir F. BURDETT concurred in' the general opt. took the' land from some mehlle.rnae, to CV& .c
nion, of the wisdom which the Prince Regent's Got ,into allotments among the poor, who had this th es
"eminent had displayed on the present occasion. But, or four rents to pay. It was to be observed, RA in
there was one point to which he wished to call their Ireland there was no time of agistmemit upoti pan
attention, because it was one which, perhaps, more tare ground ; and hay did not pay tithes in ole lief
than any other, was likely to prevent or interrupt of the kingdom. The people of Ireland were thee,
harmony with America—he meant the impressment ; not, itt" fact, so much burdened with tithes a, in tes
of American seamen. The other day be had men- I country. lie was not able to discover any practical
tioned the impressment of one Williams, who, he remedy for the evil complained of. .
understood, was really an, American seaman, and Sir JOHN NEWPORT core ceded, that great op-
he should be glad to know whether his case had been pressions were endured by time veer of Iteismid, in
enquired into. consequence of the operation of the system of 'ets.
Mr. GOULBOURN said, that his lion. Friend! W
He stated, from a letter which he had receivee, a
(Mr. Croker, we presume) being absent, he could ' strong prima facie case of oppression, in the conduct
not give any immediate answer to the question. of a Mr. Morgan, a clergyman in tee county of %rex-
Lord CASTLEREAGH wished to observe, that ford. • Tills man, when Rector of the parish of Sew-
in the present '
stage of the negociations with Mtge- town Bariy, was stated to have been so oppressive,
rica, the most active steps had been taken, to put its' *fit the parish Was turned 'almost entirely from til-
_end to this source •of misunderstanding. Our AM.: -Inge, for which it was uatu: ally tit, to pasture, which
bassador. had asked a list of all persons in our navy, is tithe-free in Ireland. 'This one instance, if proved,
who were.stapposed to Jae American seamen, and when would show that it was in the power of a few deny-
' that list is/ pr'ecitrecl, their cases would be forthwith Min of his description,. not only to commit Whets
le , • squired into. ' ' - , ,-. :-' oppression on the poor, hut to Jerre/he agriculture
.
• m;Mr..PONIONBY entertained, very ilitle''dtsttbt, 'Of thicouptrv.
iket..the Order mow issuedtWould be -perfikly sk too
is. - ' rd CAfirr LBILE,AGH admitted that iodividual
Ifiriori to America:;but should she think 'proper .th cases'of oppression must exist under'any administra•
rise In her Oa. to. whet was unreasonable: stud tion of law ; but he thciuget it was not fair in the
r
**Ste no stag be tuore forseerd.thart.,ltitteeelf Hon. Baronet to hold up in this manner, to pub lc
to inPPoiftlielViTind-agteresta,ofthis -conntry.—* Indignation, en individual who was not there to all-
! [Hew: n • • "If.-- . c: NI
.4... • • • swer for himself, and who, open examination of es
Mr. NVIRTORBA D had 14-question thit this men- case, might possibly be found to have acted in ama
m.
n•
.
sure, - now se 114+4 adopted,'
•wpuld prevent the ner different from the information which te!.HlO
• • •
, breaking.oet,of hostilities with America. lie would Baronet had received. Le thought it was Ik ,
now only observe, .that one could_ not contereplatii" bent'upon those who, felt as evil to be of sothr!,•!
the 'haPl4balaS-10,asilelieht !Olds Its prospect hadelife eehgnitude to state to l'nelienwnat, le pryer' 're::
fused among the' mauufeeturing ditetrictLpf thelcoealt reused for. it. Although, in some eases oft e g
_.,
try, without Congiatulating the House,and Sheave& est magnitude, like the questiom of last night,
cre,,,
try on the eecitsiollt 1110,1111ey woedd rood he'ree the
'• liament might take it upon itself to find the romfodrit,e
patio:action of ' kOing*Aili:Atir ilveral hornisr ,and Yet in all ordinary cases of legislation, it was
le
%.
i every where feeding themeepheemptoyed,industvious,, Gentlemen who stated. the evil to propose
thettrre n
.et.
4114 Ila ti,09t).1,11/per, /shorn It his 'nuiticilajarr Ile thought that was the course which
ta lion.
.11.1'.1.,
for him to peps 'nee eulogy.on the manner Weald, Oman (Mr. Parnell) .ought to have
.k. t_er :
his Min. Friend had conducted- himself through the: instance. He thought the Hon. Dart. (Sir J.. IN "
Omen del'
'mediae Or the'liiiiiiii ; that 'conduct had been Wit.. port) was too ready to consider ever? o .
e, ,
',;isessesilsytho,House itself. :Ile hoped that accord vered in debate as solemn pledges, which no times
, with America.would be speedily restored • and` that circumstances could remove. He had been
ell °
ra'C'
'tezetber with It, in-the coarse of a very few months, friendly to a commutation for tithes, if it wer
.ps,,.
~tekattempt Wolied be made by Ministers to restore tirable ; but the great difficulty was to find an'
04::
iseace with -France, which coxed-not fail to be attend- stitation for, it which would not Le fel' ,till
ca 7.,
'Llol' with the greatest blessings to the country, and heavily. Any arrangement must go on the putiectio
as hich be believed lead hardly yet been gone about in pie, that the clergy have an absolute estate ee'
one-tenth of the growingetillage of the country'
_.
the spirit of coeciliation, in any instance. nag ay
The Order of the Day for ..the Call of the House Ile found very great difficulties In sugges
a_
on Thursday was then dischanged. substitute, notwithstanding all the pains behad t
.en:.
,be Ur) '
The-Gentled Incloeure Bill went through a Coat- on the subject. Hz would,
voli ba
mittee, end was appointed for a third readrug ou ,confer with any one on the business, and
Thursday next. .t n-Y glad to find any feasible plan proposed.
heard the 019
X11'00..174 MELANIN' , .. , ,
_, . , :I: ; • :''. t Mr. BARIIAM said, he had often
' W. PARNmok.rette to .make hicreemiaelin so. that the Church was in daeger, but it. was not
.tiltvi..
tins OR thit subject. He began beolmerring; that Sectariets, Catholics, or Dissenters of any. cloocloict
' nolewer thatellialti 0110* bad nines* either, tiy tfon. - The danger mose chiefly from the nusc u _
he bad ante!'
petitions, or thiesigh greed Juries, the necessity of of its omen members. liisr this reason _ .
every
some alteration its the dam system of Ireland. He regretted tithes had ever existed, as they baa

lIOUSE OF CONIMONS.
The Militia Subalterns' Bill, the Militia Adjutants' BW, the
Land-tax Deeds' Bill, and the Scotch Excise Superannuation
Bill, were read a third time, and pftsed.
The Report of the Debtors' Relief Bill was taken into coosi.
derail,

.ation."
Mr. LUSH INGTON brought up the Report of the Salt Bill.
Mr. WHARTON obtained leave to bring inn Bill for better-
ing the duties on Malt.
The House went hates Comatittee oa the Loan Bill, Report
to be received tormorroa.
A new writ woe ordered for Bristol, in tie room of the Right
Hon. Charles Bragge,Batburst, who had accepted the Office of
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.
A new writ was ordered for Bodmin, in the room of Sir Wm.
Oglander, Bart. who had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.
A new writ was ordered for Colchester, in the room of
Richard Hart Davies, Esq. who had accepted the Chiltern Hun.:
sheds-
The Prince's Lease Bill was rend a second time; and ordered
to be committed to-morrow. •
Mr. WHARTON obtained leave, and brought in the Bulle-
tin& Bills' Bill.. Read a Brat, and ordered to be read a second
time to-morrow.
Mr. W. POLE obtained leave to bring inn Bill to continue
andrunend the Irish County Police Bill.
The Report of the Irish Customs' Bill was received.
The Irish Stamp Duties, the Irish Butter. the Irish Treasury
Billd' the Irish Bakers', the ;AMU llonnty Discontinuation,
the Glass Duty, the Assessed Taxes,and the Additional Postage
Bills, were read a first time, and ordered for second readings
to-morrow.
The Committee on Mr. Palmer's Bill was postponed, on Col.
Palmer's Motion, till Friday.
Mr. W. BOOTLE presented a petition from John Higgins, the
keeper of Lancaster gaol, praying enquiry. It Mated that
Sarum had attempted to escape, and bad, in cousequeace,.fren
committed to closer confinement, but had been released so ex-
pressing contrition. .
Mr. BROUGHAM bore testimony to die excellent std exem-
plary character of the gaoler.
Sir F. BU It DETT (as well as we could hear) signified his in-
tention to bring on the matter on Friday.—Thu Petitioning or-
dered to limn the table.
Mr. WALLACE:stated, that the bailee's of Oode, concern-,
log which My. Brougham had given notice of a Mottos, was
under the coosideratlon of the Directors.
Mr. BROUGHANI said, it was his only object that there
should be maw enquiry into the matter, and as it was now in the
proper hands, he would withdraw his Modus for tlsie &lesion.
The Bahama Trade Sill was committed. Reptrt to be re-
ceived to-searrow,
MAIL COACH EXEMPTION BMW- t"
On the motion that the Report be taken iota lonian itiOnsider-
ation, Mr. BANKES proposed an amendment, pesipsaing itfor
three ro oath&
Ir conversation

A long then took place; in the coarse of *bit*.
Sir P. Burdett expressed a u ish that soldiers, who wanted pi
trams:nit mosey to their friends, should be exempt from payiag
a ditty : aid tie Billwas supported by Mr. W. Dendas, Mr.
Rose, Lord A. Hamilton, and kir. Whitbread; and oopaged by
Sir . &well Mr Mr...eke Mr. Wrottesley, Mr. yausittart,
and Mr. G. deliatase, salareilled it a Sratchijob.

•
- afterwhich thedivided, mid
-,,rcared •
For the Rill .o—Against it 50—Majority . 3 •
RDCAL OF. THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL,.
Mr; BROUGHAM said, that haying felt, consi
derable anxiety iitk regard to_ the course which it•
was the intention of Ministers to pursue on this 54.7.
jot, 'it was pecjitiarty gratifying to bum. to •1ea9614
that an Order had dint day been issued by thel'iince.
Herat in Councll,,,,iihick, if he might be allowed
so to speak, was perfectly lied in ,esery.wea, satis-
factory to himself,•andto hitt friesidarha. entertain-
ed a similar opinion with. bintielf.,,,,k,,,yes AIN this
account, hollow rose to' thliojdos ti 4