The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-04-17 00:00:00

Lord RIORSDALIS said. ba suety
milt in the country a political party. The Utmost Ca-
then& ante a aumeroas sect had a strong political body.
They were more than any others swayed ht, the °phial&
df theltleaderk and be would airm that •no man. wbil.
belonged to that religion had the possession of his oarlik
conscience. The Bill halm the [louse alluded to thoIPI4MI
truant Church in Ireland and to the Preshykstias•
Church in Scotland; but forgetting the principles on
which both were founded, was calculated to *adenosine
both those establishments. It did nut directly repealalt
the laws by which those establishments had remained
hitherto secure; hot by a sort of side wind it invaded
them, and nnikingroom for the human Catholic Choech
aimed a deailll blow at the Protestant establishment.—
n di. ect opposition to the Statute of Elizabeth, that Bill
Pprovided that the authority of the Pope of Home should
te must fully recognised within this realist. They were
then shout to subvert the principle which their ances-
tors supportel!and acted upon in 16;11. It was said to be
uncharitable to exclude the Roman Catholics merely be-
cause they were Roman Catholics ; but they were ex-
cluded by their ancestors for no other reason hat be-
came they were Ronson Catholics. The framers of that
Rill thought securities necessary for the safety of the
Protestant Religion. All parts of the Bill recognise the
necessity of such securities, and there was none to rtfee-
tnal as the security which the laws had already coal.
fished, namely, the security of exclusion. The Roman
Catholics would never be satisfied. If the right of sal-
(rage had not been conceded to the Roman I atholito.
that Bill meld never have some up to their t
When county Members at elections in Irelanirlhattl
themselves advocates for the emancipation of Roman
Catholics, half those who heard than smilesl, because
they knew that to be the voice of their Catholic consti-
tuents. Instead of conciliating, the Hill would be pro-
ductive of irritation. 'flee Roman Catholics would not
stop with what the Bill granted, they wont.' go farther.
In Ireland, his Lordship said, the Rom in Catholic Reli•
gion was on a different footing fruits that in this conntre,
for there they have a hierarchy ready cut anti dry to
enter into position. The Noble Lord concluded by
moving that the Rill he read this day six months.
Earl lIA It ROW 131 felt more surprised by the tone of
many of the Noble Lords who had preceded him than
by their arguments ; in thew bole course of which they
contended that the Established Church of this country
was to be brought into danger by the propodietl cots-
cessions to the Roman Catholics. Not yielding even
to any tor the Noble and Reverend hi inch in attach-
111# Ili to the Established Church, or zeal for its pre-
eervation, yet he could see mu tlanzer that could pos-
sibly arise from the Kill then itelote the liouse. Could
he be persuaded that any risk might he incurred
from the passing of the Bill into a law, so tar from
supporting it, he would not only vote with the Noble
and Learned Lord for postponing it six mouths, hut
for its utter and irrevocable rejection. Rut, instead
of danger, he contended safety to Church and State
would grow out of the 'Leasure. Amongst the mane
objects sure to be attained by tho Bill, it was not an
unimpertant one that all b.... 11 feelin_:s would be there-
by terminated and removed. Ihe principle of the
11111 he apprehended to be, to grant to the It mien Ca-
ths lies every thidig that could he granted consistent
with the senility of the t hurt+ Awl State, and he
would maintain, that not one of their Lordships should
vote against the Bill, who nas not prepared to prove
'qv noticing ought to be conceded by establishing
'he existence of clanger front concession. Much bad
been said of the intolerant tenets of the Roman cork..
lie Church alit! Prelates, and the doctrine of exelitelve
salvation. Were they Roman Catholics only who
maintained that t!ocirine ?—(Hear.)—Could the Pro-
:estatit—the Preebyterian Church deny having pro-
f Lassa siusilar doctrines. Protests had been coterie' into
by the latter against et hat they called damnable doe-
trit es—atiti these w.•re the tenets of Presbyterianical.
'o to the period of the Union of Scotland to Eee-
.atil they remained unchanged. During. the this, u•-
sion of the Union a solemn representation was Itemlr
by the Church of Seutlandl_ against that Artie'r which
pros idea for the security of the t•iturch of E.telantl
un accomit of the guilt that would thence be incurred.
There were then in Pas liament sixteen Peers, anti lone-
lier Co Cr' Presbyterian-, and an En.:!ish Ecele-
sias:ical Peer declared, that were he to live to see
that I'M tn carried, lee should have outlived all the
later, and nearly the Constitution of the countr%•.—
Tl.e Act of Union did pars into 111 Is t*. Both flosses
of Parliament—every place in Etiglaiel were thrown
open to the Presbyterians, and more was done, solos.-
tpiently. for rounding the int, rests of the Establish-
.di Church than ball been done before.—(Hear.)—
Were the Bill now before the House to pass, not more
than six or seven Roman Catholics would he eligible to
seats in that House ; and, having thought it his duty
to intuire, lee had ascertained from the best authority
that there did not exist the most remote probability ut
more than fourteen or fifteen Members of the Roman
Catholic Religion being returned to the House of
Commons, and what danger was tobe apprehended
friett that trAing nLitsber in that floats', eustaining.
.' i. did, six hundred and tifty-eight Members:
—When the laws against Witeheraft were repealed.
Witchcraft itself also ceased: and if the abolition of
the laws against papery in Ireland, %VAS to Csllow that
has lately passed against Witchcraft in Ireland,
the dangers of both would he quieted alike. The
Catholic Freeholders in Ireland were at present on a
level with the Protestant FaTeholders, an while such
political potter was granted to the peasantry, why
should proportionate power be refused to the rich and
estlightened among the Catholic body ? Or why, as
it was often and iatpressively stated, %induld a perfet nal
re :lining fee he held oat to the Catholic Ilarristers
for sedition and disaffection, by placing beyond his
reach the reasonable objects of his and'oitiou ? The
Noble Lord concluded with expressing his litres tli-t
their Lurdiehips would treat with slue res.tect
ti. cision of the other House after mature deliberation,
and that whatever their (it'll vote might be, they would
allow the ineasitre to go into a Committee, and thus
satisfy tae public that they were uot influenced in
taeir decision by prism or Ir....prejudice, or by any
considerations inconsistent situ those whirls should
;,!hence the conduct of temperate and etsli;litetted
S;atesmen.—kliear, bear.)
'Ode Earl of LIVER Pill 11. said he should he 4,,rey
st any individual in or out of that House sla usl.l go
.sway with an impression. that it was nut iitten.led to
ive thie question the (idlest -poseillie. aiseenssi tn.
kerefure Ise Aosta wove the adjoartouctit ot the
Jebate.
The debate was accordingly aellonened to •Isis day.
The House then ifisijouree4 at Uses o'Clock ::sit

HOUIIIeOr‘VMMONII.-11011 DAT, Antis. IS
Mt. 831tTH brought up the Report ti( the
ton Itlection Voissosittee, confirming the decision of a
former Committee. watch stated that the right of
election *as vested in the borough.—Ordtred to lie on
the Uttr.

Mr. W. DUNDAS presented Petitions from certain
ipertbasts of gainbargh, and the Chamber of Com-
tierce of that town, complaining of an act of last Ses-
sion regulating the commercial intereoure between
Ilreat Britain and Ireland, as affecting their interests.
and praying fur the revision of some clauses in the sai
Act.—Ordered t,. lie on the table. _

Mr. D. IiILISBRT brought up the Report of the
Londus lustitutiou Bill, and the several amendments
were then agreed tO.
Mr. S. U. WHITBREAD presented a petition from
the fresholdersof Middleses, praying for Parliament-
ary Reform.—Laid on the table.

Mt. iLLICIL after adverting to the Polity elf re-
tainitig Canada, on wltieb be said be Shook% give its
opinion, moved that the petition be telliatml to the
Committee en Foreign Trade.
Sir R. KNATCHBULL objected to the matida, as
tending to prolong the labotivs of the CAnomittee,
it being desirable that they ithstabl Rake their Report
as soon as possible.
Mr. ELLICE said a few words, and the 00t10111 was
then agreed to.
On the motion of Sir H. PARNRLL; the Hilybead
Road Bill was read a third time and passed.
On the motion of Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW, the At•
torneys' Admission Regulation Bill, and the Bills of
Etteliange Bill, were read a second tune,' and ordered
to he committed.
Sir T. BARING wished to know from the Right
Honourable tientlentan the Chancellor of the fixchr•
goer, whether the present Chairman of the Committee
for the Auditing of the Public Accounts. had relit •
quished his situation ; and whether it was the intentio:i
of his Majesty's Boverameet to put into his situatio3
the son of a Noble Lord ? The Hon. Baronet bore tel.-
timony to the merits of Mr. Serjeant Praed in the situa-
tion. which he nnderstood him to have expressed hls
intention of relinquishing, if he bad met already rt.

Aagned
The CHANCELLOR of the EXQHEQUER said,
the only answer he could give the Hight Honourable
Baronet was, that he believed MT. Serjeaot Freed had
relinquished his situation, bet he was not prepared to
answer the other question of the Hon. Baronet, as to
the appointment of a successor.
TIMBER DUTIES.
Mr. WALLACE moved, that the House resolve
heel( into a Committee on the Timber Duties.
Upon the question that the Speaker leave the Chair,
M P. (MANI' rose to move as in amendment,
that this snii:ect he referred Id a Committee of the
whole House, to consider further thereof. He con-
tended that a sum, amountin7 to no less than 600,0001.
a year, was paid by way of drawhadk, partly to the
American Colonists, and partly to the Emperor of
Rossi* for the purpose of forcing the people alibis coun-
try to go to a market to whirl, they wonld otherwise re-
ject. lie 'wild nut but regret that the first practical
measure of the Committee on Foreign Trade, was one
hirh in olvrol a total violation of every sound principles
of political economy. Such was the injury which accrued
to the people of this *wintry, and all the evidence went
to sbew that the Timber Trade to the Colonies was a
trade that produced nothing to the owner of 1110 soil.
Another effect of the measure before the Hoes. was to
usake this conutry tributary to Rossi& to the moonlit of
II;0.1100/. a-year, because we chose Russia to export her
deals to ns, in preference to Norway. He 1.410 110 reason-
able gronnel for taking au large a sum out of the pockets
of the people of England, merely, as it seemed, to enable
the Kos,' tits to wake .is much money satin. Norwegian,.
Ile could not regard this as a party question, hut merely
as a question which had &onsets entirely out of the
ttoiraeulooss mistakes of the Right Hon. (gentleman op-
posite, Ile trostesl the. House would consent to go azitin
into the Co.ositittee, and reconsider the whole subject,
before this Hill passed into a law. He should propose a
duty of 21. a load upon Hattie timber, and 3/. as. on
deal, the deal I ring charged by its cubical contents. The
lion. Member concluded by moving, that the !loose re-
ve itself in'o a I:ominittee for the further cousideration
of the ditties on timber.
Mr. WALLACE argueol in support of the opinion
which he had formerly stated its referenc.t to the ques-
tion. Ile thought that the preeretioa which tb' Bill
offered to the Colonies was nor beyond what was con-
sistent with a due regard to the interests •f the coun-
try. With respect to the shipping interests, he con-
tended that protection to them, within certain Unlit.,
should be part of the policy of the country. Ile ob-
jected to the mode proposed by the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, of taking the nwasureinent by the cubical
contents. It would have the curet of giving a mo-
nopoly to Norway. It would reduce the duty on Nor-
'w iv Timber from 22!. to I while it w,sulil
that on Russia Timber to 301. Ile eunoitlered the in-
'crests of the Sawyers nut connected with this ques-
tion, becaus,: men who worked by the band coo .1
it lie no real interest in Making' l'ollllo.lo cause W1:1
0101110 who worked by machinery, as in the sa v.
milk in Scotland. Ile was, o m tie whole, of opini..3
that 2/. was as much as could safely be laid upon 1-
-
million Timber.
Slr. W. SMITH supported the Amendment.
Mr. MAR RYA / supported the original
tion. lie thought the Colonies had never been pro-
tected so far as to give them a decided posuseion i-f
the market and he was of opinion that Norstay was
extr-mely rayon eel.
Mr. K. DOUGLAS dial not agree with the Mover
of the Amendment, nor did he altogether approve if
the Ile,olution, as neither of them were calculated 11
give that equal and full competition which was pr..-
reseed, until some time should have elapsed. i:e
therefore intended to move iu the Committee, a closote
which would remedy the *Select of which he complaito.,l
in the Mil.
Sit W. DE CRESPDAY said a few words Dot
atOible.
Mr. tiLADSTONE argued in support of the systr:Li
prop:mord oy the `fill, as equitable and beneficial.
Mr. BENNET thought that while different mercan-
tile interests were contending for Cieir several systms
of ditties, in reference to Norway, Russia, and ate
Colonies, the consumer, or in other words, the people
of England, ought notto be forgotten. It was they
‘vho were to pay tile duties. He did not care a far-
thing fur Norway or Russia, as regarded commercial
preference, but he thouzlit time iuterests of the peopls
of this country ought not be sacrificed to enrich any
canting, base, aud• blood-stained despotism.—(blear.)
The motion fur epnimittiug the Bill was then agreed
to. Wit/1011( a dll/1.1.01.
Mr. KEA I'll LAS postponed his Auieudni• of
to a future oprortimity,
1 tie House then revausicitiand the Report ordered t 3
be received to-morrovis- ' •
Mr. BATUI.: EST hestiid•S‘'sslc au 'Han. Meonl'-r
(Mr. Boston). whether it walikli;a iutentiou to p
pone his m .:i..1, which ciseed.fohMednesolay, as t..' :e
was inter-in oiati to be g;von.itiettie subject,.ot which
the Hells? ht to he its pooseeosiosi.
Mr. BUN I i 4%, as sic unaiwstood. agreed to p st-
pJtie his iotioso. • •.
CONIMITTEI: OW .143PPIN.
On the motion of Lord .PAIMIIIIISTON, !!..e
!loose went Into a Consuddee of Soefly, whet •.!.o
Army Estimates were tatiohinto4csonsideratioss.
Jmrd PALMERSTON wortsf`tlio SUM et 6.414/-
for t!s. w^ teal (I,:p.irtase:o. and allosiaite N clerhy

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