The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-05-01 00:00:00

King of Spain which- should induce the Cortes to with-
draw their confidence from him ; but whatever tnizlit
hate been his conduct, which lie certainly could not ap-
prove of—at least front 1M:I to IS:211. yet that was not a
ifficient reason for depriving him of the power of exe-
cuting the functions of his office. There was an allusion
unite, as a matter of coniplaiot against Ministers, to their
calling upon the Spanish Government for a redress of
u•tr own injuries before we declared the course we were
determined tJ adopt. If we kid been so chivalrous and
generous as nut to insist upon our just demands being
satisfied, how :ould oc have justified our conduct to those
injured sobjects, who lead been complaining without
effect for six years. After repeated remonstrances which
were lot attended to, he maintained that unless our
I-dn.:niers were redresrcd, we should not hare heen jus-
tified in offering war good offices to Spain. blin'sters
were charged with ofTering their gaol officei tb France;
but it should be remembered that they offered them at
the repress recommendation of Spain. [having acted
thus, there was no cause of complaint afforded to Spain,
because the course adopted was adopted at her desire.
'l'ie Right flonoorable Gentleman concluded by saying,
that when the necessity for war arose, the country pea-
prosed resources itlfcli would enable us to meet it with
the same success and facility with which it met the last
war.

Mr. LEN TESTER said that he rose to repel the suppo-
sition that the question before the House was war or peace.
The question wee as to the nature and character of the late
Degocivtiens, and looking at the suhject in that view, he did
rotthink it toensiteet with the impartial policy of.this coun-
try, while it kept Spain in doubt as to tee course which it
intended to pursue, to let trance into its confidence, and at
once declare to her how she was determined to act in the
event of a war. At least, while Spain was kept In doubt,
the tone of remonstrance should be held to France, which
was admitted even by Ministers themselves, though he saw
no language of that character in the documents on that
table. They contained merely an expression of dislike. If
mere forcible language had been used. he believed that the
evils of war would have beenaverted. Had not the House
proclaimed the infamy and atrocity of Frguce its attacking
Spain? Had not a Noble Lord, closely connected with Ad-
ministration. compared the conduct of the Bourbons to the
seine descrined in Scripture, which rushed on to their own
destruction ? In fact, all were united In condemning their
conduct. except one loan, who was found to advocate de-
spotic priuciples—
Who wtmld not smile if such a man there be
Who would not weep if the great Duke were Ise?
If the advice of the Duke of Buckingham were followed, it
would have the (elect of making Ferdinand hang up San Mi-
guel, Areuelles, and all the patriots of Spain. The lan-
tone to France in th..se negotiations was too cool by half.
There was a superfluity of compleisance to be seen through
en the correspondence, which he verily believed was used
from the lendable motive of averting war, but which he s iu-
cerely believed had a contrary effect.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said, that In judging of the conduct
or Ministers, it was fair to consider the situation in which
teey were placed up to the meeting of Congress nt Verona,
owl up to that time he must admit that he saw nothing blame-
able in their. conduct. But when he looked to the papers on
the table, and esasoined their conduct slice that time, he
thotight it deserved censure. Every body must reprobate
t 46 attempt of the A lied. Sovereigns to put down freedom in
Europe, by forcing nations to alter their free institutions ac-
carding to their will, but he hoped as lone as a free and re-
presentative Government existed in England, every nation
would fellow its example. Thought he rid not entirely ap-
prove of the conduct of our Minister at Verona, yet it was,
at the same time, such as he could not condemn. Govern-
ment ought not to indulge in the language of menace, but Ise I
thought, at the same time, that they ought to have expressed
their opinion of the meditated outrage in stronger terms.—
Allied, however, as they were with the despots of Europe,
they could not have used any decisive Innguage unless they
were prepared to follow it up with decisive measures. There
war. to his (relines. something so abhorrent in war, that he
cever wished to see us engaged in it unless to defend theiso-
recr and interests of the country. 'lining said thus much,
should now observe that he could neither agree to the
origital sir tion nor to the amendment. He could not
agree to the original motion, for it would imply that we
ought to :dive used at Verona langmee which we were
not called upon to use; and Ise cuuld not agree to the
amen iment because it went the length of approving the
conduct of M!niqers to the fullest extent. In his opinion
Ministers were strongly oppoA!.d to the diabolical princi-
ples which the despots of Europe were resolved to main-
tain. Tliis was not a time in which any thing like
party frelin; ought to prevail; all parties ought to be
tutted in sending forth to the world the opinion of that
House as the representatives of the people of England,
with respect to the detestable outrage on the freedom
of Spain. The principles contained in the King of
France's speech might perhaps under certain circum-
stances, justify this country in going to war, but situated
as we were, lie did not think we ought to have recourse
to arms, though it was due to the English nation that
that Hogre should disclaim and reprobate such princi-
ciples avowed by France, and lie thought it would be
right for both sides to agree to in Address without pro-
tean( jug any opinion on what had pa,sed ; but confin-
ing themselves entirely to the principles now espoused
by the despots of Europe. The sentiments he now deli-
itered, he believed to be those of nine hundred and nine-
ty-nine nut of every thousand of the whole people of Eng-
land. Ile implored the (louse not to sanction, either
the original motion or the amendment, and thus avoid
ti.e imputation of party feeling at the present important
crisis.

Mr. W. PEEL thought that his Majesty's Ministers were
entitled to the gratitude of the country for their judicious
Conduct in the affuirs in question. They kel.t the country
at peace, without in the slightest decree compromising
either its honour or interests. This he firmly believed to be
the. opinion of tne people at large. It was alleged by some,
that ne were unable to go to war. Tb it he positively de-
nied ; for we were nosy as well prepared as ever to coot -
Mance hostilities if necessarily called upon to do so. What !
;(mould it be Said that En4land was the only country in Eu-
rope not in a state to go to war? The idea was quite pre-
pt sterous. nut he would ask whether those who were now
the first to cry out for war, would not be the last to allow
the means for carrying it on after it had conuneueed ?
(Ilaar, hear.) it was as absurd to say, that we ought now
to engage in war,lis it was to say, that we hail. not the
means to go on with it. if war were necessary. Ile main-
tained that our best policy was to beware of entering into
time quarrel. No man felt more strongly than he the folly,
the absurdity, and the madness of the conduct of France
towards Spain. In fact, from the feeling; evinced by the
p.mple in Franco at the time he was there, he never thou,rlit
that the war would have been undertaken, but now that it
had been undertaken, he thought that we ought to have no-
thing to do with it.
Lori P II.MERSTON said there were two' points to be
considered in reference to the present question, the first was
tae injustice of the principle; ou which there was no
op either side of the House, in forming an opinion, for
both, were prepared to admit it. and the next point was the
result of the war, which in Loy way must be prejudiced to
Frailee berserf. England had two courses open to her—un
rltir the eircunistancet.theone was to endeavour, if possible,
to avert the war, or. if her interference, as a mediator. proved
ineffectual, she mien:, it was true, haie embarked her La-
tune. iu the same cause %vita Spain; but in either rase site
ought to he consisten'. To resort to a middle course. and
'nee threats. would he disgraceful to the character of the
country. It indeed, be truly disgraceful for us so
'brandish the sword unleas we were prepared to use it. If.
*tea, oar policy was to remain neutral, it was also our po-
liev to dissuade France Irons her enterprise. and pereuade
-bPain to measures winch were likely to avert war. ltu-
.vernanent had. matte use of floe! arguments which were most
likely to he etrectpal with France, though tney had not, It
,vgstree, resorted to such liegnage as would he made use
.of by lion. Gentlemen oil the other side, Who described the
;Spvcreisns bf etirop! as arbitrary despots, and their Ali-
,nietere as the itistraniente of their tyranny. To persuad.
`the iSoveretins not to attack Spain, it was net+ss,try to
' ineiole, het of interest; and
difficulties under whirls the
the improbability of sue:

Int

cess in the end. On the one hand they urged the impro-
priety of forcing a Constitution on Spain, and on the
other hand they showed the,danger attending the- under-
takiag; as likely to create a revoldtion in France. While
on themne.band, they had endeavoured to persuade France
not to attack Spain, tVy, on the other hand, had- endea-
soured to induce Spain to make certain reasonable con-
cessions. But was It of their' own free will that they had
asked for those concessions? No, it was in consequence
of our good offices having been called for by Spain her-
self. But it might be said that we called upon Spain to
change a Constitution which was endeared to the people
by the recollection of the many invaluable blessings they
enjoyed under it ; for his own part, though hating des-
potism quite as much as those who made more noise
about liberty, he still hated the Government of Spain quite
as much. It was a Government that canted with it the
seeds of its own destruction; it was full of nothing but,
the elements of discord. Was it, then, lie would ask, 1
wrAnr, in the Bridal' Government, to counsel Spain to
make changes which would secure to her external pease
and internal tranquillity ? It had often been said that
the strongest affection proceeded from the consciousness
of benefits conferred ; if ever there was a man who had
conferred on Spain benefits that ought to be recollected
from lisping infancy to old age, it was the Duke of Wel-
lington. It was in the provinces of the Peninsula that he
fir-t showed those talents which afterwards distinguished
the renowed General and consummate statesman. Was
it possible that such a man—the man who had washed
out the foul stain of the invader, should counsel any thing
to the dishonour of Spain ? Spain was now a divided
country, though their indignation against France might
perhaps fora moment unite all classes. But if our inter-
ference was questionable on principle, it was not so in
policy. We were recovei ing from a struggle unequall..d
in the annals of warfare, and was it at a moment when
our national prosperity was beginning to revive, that we
were again to be piant s's! into a war which was not call-
ed for, either in the defence of the honour or interests of
Great Britain, and which was urged by no other claims
than mere abstract principles. It was said that we might
give assistance to the Spaniards by means of our Iraq;
—yes, we might, if we bad ships enough, cover the ocean
with them, but unless they were employed in transport-
ing troops and arms, our expeditions would he nothing
more than mere ostentatious parade. It had also been
argued that we might cripple the resources of France by
seizing her Colonies. But what would our Allies say to
such conduct? Would they not exclaim—" Oh, you
consummate hypocrite! you have made the world ring
with your vauntings about honour and justice, yet you
take advantage of the quarrel between France and Spain
to enrich youna•lves! As to the Spaniards you have
abandoned them ; the. French legions are now pouring
down on Spain, but you don't send a single soldier to
their aid. lint you well know the difference between
Napoleon and the Bourbons. Such was not your con-
duct whin the arch-enemy was to be opposed. When
your own interests, when all that was dear to
yen, were at stalv." For his own part be did not see
what fair answer could be given to these reproaches. 1t
was likewise said that we might, by money, raise a
large army in Spain. That seas very true; but
the army so raised might be completely discomfit-
ed ; and, in his opinion, the Spaniards were not to
depend on pitched battles, but on irregular warfare.—
Spain, if united, would succeed without our interfer-
ence. If we were to embark at all in the cause, it must
he by sending an army ; and, from the first moment that
a British soldier set his foot in Spain, we should become
principah: in the contest. if Spain were milted, nothing
would be lost by our neutrality, and much might be
gained. We might preserve our means for any emer-
gency worthy of calling them into request, in which
case we might co to war with means augmented by the
prolongation of repose.
- • • •

• Colonel DAVIES supported the original motion, and
contended that strong language might have been used at
Veranl, without having the effect of comMitting the
country in war.

Mr. H. TWIGS sail, that notwithstanding the variety
and weight of the observations of the Gallant Colonel—
(exclamations of " Oh, oh !" from several parts of the
House here, as well as in other parts of his speech, drown-
ed the Hon. Gentleman's words, so as to make them in-
aadihle in the Gallery)—notwithstanding the Gallant Co-
lonel's observations, he could not concur in the censure
attempted to be cast ou his Majesty's Ministers in the late
negoetations. In the course of his observations with a
view to their vindication, he remarks that a reasonstrance
instead of doing any good, might lead to the necessity of
declaring war, and on the other hand the conduct of Mi-
nisters was likely to explain away the differences existing
between France and Spain. A nation was not always
justified in giving up the least chance of attaining the
least possible good. A remonstrance with France, in-
stead of inducing her to retract, was likely to be attended
with the consequence of embroiling that country with
France. There was little doubt but a war with this
country would be popular in France, and whatever the
merits of that Government were, whatever faults they had,
humility, or a crouching disposition was not among
them. The course which the supporters of the Address
should have advised Government to pursue, was to snake
strong remonstrance with France. From what had hap-
pened since the ne,gociations there could be no doubt but
such a course would, on the calculation of chances, have
involved that country in the war. Since then the hive-
' sion of Spain, to prevent which this country was, accord-
ing to the doctrines on the other side, justified in declar-
ing war, had actually occurred, he would ask why did
not the Address go to the effect of such a declaration P—
(Heir, hear.) With all the facts before the Hon. Gentle-
men they did not propose war.—(llear, hear) Tory
well knew the great majority of the people of England
was against war. They had not one substantial justifica-
tion fur involving the country in war, and he had nu
doubt that France was in a predisposed state to make it
necessary to follow up a remonstrance with a declaration
of war. Ile could nut state on what grounds they could
at present he against war, but he knew that at the time of
the n-gociations, and before the invasion of Spain there
could be no grounds. But Han. Gents. carried their argu-
ments too far, when they stated that we ought, at all
risks, to vindicate right and justice. On these grounds
there never could be an act of injustice among nations
witlioat engaging us in a war. But it was worthy of
observation, that those who now called out fur war with
France fur the sake of the liberties of Spain, were those
very persons who before opposed such a war for the li-
berties of Europe.—(Hear, hear) But the tsar which
pleased those Gentlemen was that which was brought by
subjects against their King, and not that which was
waged by kingdoms against the oppressors of mankind.
lie undervalued as mach as the Noble Lord (Folkstone,
the member for Salisbury) any apprehensions from
France; there was only one line of policy which could
give him any such apprehensions. Yet the half of the
speech of the Hon Bart. and of tine other Hon. Member
for Westminster, went entirely on the grounds of self-
defence against that country. Ile disliked the conduct
and the principles of the Continental Monatcbs, but the
More culpable their conduct was, the more incumhent
was it on this country to pursue a correct line of
constant. For these *reasons he could not vote for the
Addrasse
Sir FRANCIS BLAKE.—When liberty Was at stake,
neutrality was too cold for the genn4ons feeling of the
Bridal; nation.--(Hear, hear!) If he 'were hbrn a Spa-
.
Oiard, lighting in the glcitious calk*: iSf Ilierty, he would
scout the tuke-warth declaration of neutrality, and say it
,5143 oat that whist was just towards w;.--(fiedr, hear.)
He distinguished between tlie`Governi6iit nt the'codntry
Ind ihe'pehple, nine-161dB of whim were for Spain;
but their isarinth 'was reitraliaid sod dined by the icy

'.' ••••••!•-•n-- ----
Ilihihnimi
'tit*. net merely ntotlvis or pelt
Governtneat Showed them the
sit must be comMeneel, sad