The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-12-24 00:00:00

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be Abet would b. so Sae the horror irliski; hishienut fel lOC haerl)-111e eifeetsd to ahoy Made of desz have hen spate of remiss the dement &lisp of i
footway tea! 'gobbet the Mout reeehasended by the ram he ono' InPlad to " a owl stimetatiag pride, ander pretense
e..a, wee Os alst trthe worm of a Vosetion= and ofPergidge.ssil trh as so easily acted epee. However,
tatter 1"1" °Q41.114-, wad "aid .141.66.111611. ____n_ is
J-9r. *lke with certainty ef the laquisitissa. Ala was set' be melt art hit ve that deciansadea was the only
molo* as go Tiffin *ad wrong. It world .11V111.6 re- .did Ili graerally from his Lean* Friend to ' bialior which the Right Hen. Readoeson made to his at-
sisertable writers. by placing thew a the east liability As airwave be gave of the press; and be hes , premils. He (Sir Jason) bid takes a plebs and straight
/.
wish the swam; whose writings doom werewewswg she , Leval the individual cendactor girded to deemed the leeward •
sparse. AM the unseats which he bad od-
or tai Llamas:he gibs of hies. Bet he sreold sot say that the were greeaded os the propositions that the evil
seat shoeless crimes ; and it lowered The dligaify gain i daily press we. boo from wow; hp, he hod , wok was oosiood woos doo„ of writers, who otos; he goo.
press altogether. A new law, therefore, to dare libel% 1 rja -....w a ••• i film a paasphlei wild ' waded. . should be effected - the Dill. 1 nthot the

a dell/paper a mionstin b,
teeommeaded assossinfin ; sod the passage so gaoled
was met essemensied by auy coodemeatioa. Bat whilst
he was prepared to gin the press penally doe merit, he
felt it necessary to state a few reception from the gen.,
ral persegyrie, as a jesdikation of the opinion he held
spin the motion of the Hee. and Learned tient. opposite.
Ttue, he had a amidenatis the integrity of it ; bat be
would ask. was it, in sate times as the imeseot, in that
candid*■ as would take it out of the operation of the
getters' meessres which were deemed lamasery to be
resorted to.—(Hear, hear!)—ln legislating upon great •
questions, which affected the whole community, was
Parliament to be directed hem its straight forward.:
eoursei by an attention to individual interests—(Hear !) •
—Did the Committee forget the peculiar circumstance,
make whieb they were now acting ? But with regard to
the position laid down by the Hou. aad Learned !lenge- ,
i man, that whoa any new power was created or disco-
rend in the moral world, that then there was a tendency
to repress and tame it. lie was at a loss to see how far I
the apnea( upon that was intended I. be carried. '
One thiug he would say, that when a great explosion of '
nature took place, which was likely to billy the country 1
in ruin, it would be the more prodeat way rather
to Ily front it than throw ourselves prostrate under it.
The power and influence of the press, he contended, host
been greatly magnified. He was not prepared, indeed, !
to deny that its tone had increased teo-fold in force,
compared with what it was, bat to what cause was this ,
to be attributed. Was it not to the facilities held out by '
the press, which was the organ of ii.—(llear!)—lle was
aot one of those who saw this accumulation of force with
regret, or who would arrest its progress ; but he never I
would consent to give up the right of legislation in this I
House, nor concede any point of the majesty of the law,
to purchase conciliation with this organ of public opi•
nion.—Hear, hear!)—lt was true, that too much soli-1
diode for conviction often destroyed the effects of pit-
nishinent, and perhaps there were some truth in the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman's observations
upon the definition of (lime, in the clause to which I
be objected. At the same time he should strongly
oppose the striking out the obnoxious words in the
clause, for then was a great deal of ditference in adding
! to the definitions of an offence, already stated.antl striking
out any words, for that would be pro lento, making the
Hill less operative to a particular clue of crime. An-
other objection occurred to him, as taken by the Hon.
and Learned lientlemsn, which was to the length of the
definition. Upon this he would say, that whatever other
good qualities the amendment might have, it certainly
was aot calculated from Its conciseness to remove the oh-
jection. Take it is any shape, in its length, whether
ed by syllables or words, by weight or by meanie,
and lie was persuaded it could not claim much superiority
as to shortness, in a competition with the wording of time
present clause.—(A laugh.)—.-Ilowever, he was not dis-
posed to act upon the suggestions of the Honor-
able and Learned Gestleniao, and lie had no elite.'
Lion, in order to make the Bill more clear, to adopt
his definitions added to those that were already in.-1
The delinitna he would shorten, but never world be
,disgrace the Bill 'ay erasing the veer material words as,
premed. lie would ask the Committee to look at them
words. The motion sow was, to leave out the words
"any libel whatever oa the Constitution. the person of
She Mot. bid seecessors, she Coostitatin- if 4timersoi
meat of the Kingdom, and both Houses of Parliament."
Wear!)—Wes it proposed them to make this no offence?
hy, it oppesreil-to him, from the reasoning of the Hee.
Watkins.* himself. that the press should raise its
head against the omission. What ! leave unprotected
that Consthatioa, that sacred person of Majesty,
and those rights of both /fusses of Parliament. which,
is the words of the Ilenoorahle tientlesnan, those
connected with the press venerated so mach. He
was persuaded they did venerate them, but were
their rights so uamportant as to he left entirely
Ito their guardianship! Had Parliament so duty
to dieeberge / or rather, had not every Member
in that Hesse a severe responsibility ufon him ?
Olen 4—Perhaps, with the same dispositions. Polk-
usegt. when compared with the puns, fell short when
their powers and facalties were measured. True, it had
mot all the advantages of mystery. There was no cloud
to shut out the eyes of elitruders; all its acts were pub-
lk, and what was said at night was, in a kw bean. ca-
pable of being named to the furthest corners of the
01.01". lets with all these advantages, he would never
ounciliote The press, bat trust to Parliament alone to re-
sents the Coastitstiots.—(llear:)—After some more re-
marks. the Right lion. tleatleman contiaded by saying,
that be waiThellsod, to adapt the stnendoint so A; its it
purported to mead the Operations of the Kill to Ahem,
which it did setncogoise before.— (Hwy!)
Lord IPOLIUSTONA denied that his Hon. and Leon.
ed Friend had held oat usy *resit (rem *eke/ones of
the roots ABM could sail from the Hight Vieth. Heath-
was opposite a disploysf the sacrifices which be wield
make in defrosts of the liberties of that Mew He was
saes if then was a necessity for it. every newel his
Hon. Friends about him would say as mech. It appear-
ed to him that the esly Object of his Leaned Friend's
modes was to apportion =sloppily the pesiakesent is the
proper place. He was sorry to see the use which *ad'
been made of Ids Leawood Frisod's anteliment, which.
as the Bill itself was IWOlOOlld to be
would be oily 'Wan t° the absurdities in It. The Keil*
Lori them made some remarks apes sense of tea adoe!'
classes in the Bill, pertkularly upon thafi auflidi*El
the search, aid that which imposed baass• lament, Sick
ire contended bad not hems suffscisatly explitolL Sts
would ask, what would be the situation of a spas *lmo la
a foreign country at war with England. bad boon ship
ad by noseriptke laws to fight, and had hems Wen
; was he to be name for high tresses ? Thin..
VT:trended, weal/ he the ease 'nine hie alkgiarsee
was rut of. which legal geollemeo at the edrar skis had
said was not eiutemplated b 7 this Bill. Then was also
another intionveoincs. for at would bapps that a man
might not he able to raise ennoo Sainte the
assatry, aid by sniping he soh Aims. to the
rooky of death. Blass all these, itiaraid dhc:
the press to knee foreign eisuatrisa aid
'soon they shostiti be obliged to become I=to of
After

and he it[ the crime and the puoishowoo to them mom
whom they ought justly to attach, was Nosily tolled for
by every principal of jostite; and ass lbw ever passed
which mid be carried iota effect with more cordiality
than such a Imo as this. Bat the reseal Bill, so fir
from delinin the law, smelled its severity to the Inao-
cast and the guilty; and the effect would be to de-
feat Its object—for while the severity was so great,
is would ant be possible to find Juries to convict 11.0114
Ills object then was, to make the law effteacions for the
suppressioa of the horrid evils which arose out of the
infamous part of the press. The whole of the political
part of dispense sow rested in, and was principally eon-
fined to the public Newspapers. In these a complete re-
volution had take. place within the last thirty years;
and in that period their importance heal increased is a
most astonishing degree. The persons conducting the
daily press had, within that time, acquired a great do-
per of authority over public opinion. Wog a source
of great emolument, they waturslly drew to them men of
property, as well as of talent. Parliament therefore bad
the power of mobile( these conductors of the press their
friends. It might make enemies of them; but could
• not destroy them. Men of the first talent were engaged
in condoning the press, and it itossined to determine
whether they should be made the ausiliarie* or the ene-
mies of Government. The circumstances which drew
men of talent and liberal education to the conduct of the
press produced a cohstant improvement in public join-
oats. !haring the last Thirty years he had witnessed the
progress of this improvement; he bail witnessed an im-
provement in talents, an improvement in political think-
log and in morality. He knew one case exactly in
point: it was that of the conductor of a public journal
who had followed that profession for the last 40 years,
the nature of whose occupation made it necessary for
kiln always to write in a hurry; when wrote in the spirit
of party ; who was continually exercising a power almost
despotic, over the feelings of his readers, who was him-
st:f invis ble; and who, by evading the laws, might have
wounded the feelings of numbers. Yet this individual
possessing .such power, and having such temptations.
oas never charged with wounding the :eefings of soy
body, never was prosecuted for private slander. not ever
convirte.: of a public libel during the space of 40 yeses
that he had born engaged in the conduct of a public
journal. lie would put it to Gentlemen, whether they
believed that men in any other part of Europe would
have passed through so trying a period as that Gentle-
man had peeped through, with such freedom from offence
and such unsuliied integrity? He did not hesitate to sat,
that the Gentleman to whom be alluded, was the Editor
of the :Monis/ Chronicle. He merely quoted him as an
instance of that correctness, and that tense of honour
which bed grows up With, and had distinguished the rites
of the present day, and which it ought to be the policy
of tl it House to cultivate and cherish. There never
was more spteledour sod vigour of talent displayed on any
occasion t as th at with which those men attacked the very
enemy the House was now contending nosiest. So far
so the very safety of society was concerned, he envisions-
e.l that civilised satiety sever had more able advocates
t!inn those journalists; and were those respectable men
to be thrown into the same scale with wretches who re-
commended the committal of pillage and murder? Were
the best supporters of the Goverment to he rewarded by
being thrown into the same level with its enemies? Were
they. without any fan:t en their parts, to he resehlred
I•shie to most cruel and Igwomioions punishehoMe!
Were they to lie confounded with the most inlimems
miscreants io the country ? He appealed then, get le(
the generosity, but to the prudence and policy of the
rouse, and asked whether these men ought not to be
treated with kindness. That House could not change
the state of sOclety, ttley could not arrest its progress,
the legume of human affairs proceeded from reuses that
were independent of legislation. The press now pos-
sessed a power n Mai could not be taken away from it.—
That Howe might exasperate or conciliate its conduc-
tors, and it remained to determine which was the wisest
a- it to pursue. There was OOP provision in the Bill
be the House, which required that all persons cow
docting jouroals should enter into recognixances that
they should not publish libels. What, he asked, would
he the consequence of thus confounding men of honour
and character with miscreants and murdererst The
coneequence would be, to drip from all .
that character and property which were nowftlP
best cake.
fated to ensure the sate and proper conduct of oewspo-
pers. This character which belonged to the press was
contrived by nature and by eircomsteaces. That Horse
could not contsive, but might drive it away. The Bill
then before ill. House would drive away woof leantinjr,
',Hoof talent, meq of property and dilifOriff. from the
conduct of the press; and these were always the best se-
curity for its good conduct. Bet mark what would be
the consequence of this rhange:—men of desperate ant-
bition—fanaties in polities, and without character,
would have the a:induct of the public press;—of that
great instrument upon which the safety of society de-
pended. lithe [fosse was to contrive the most effectual
tonne of potting the safety of society in danger, they
could at do so more effectually, nor (veld they more
effectually predate a gram* distrust of thi laws, than by
eemetiag a climes that weal to pat the beet Neu in the
country on p level with the worst. The Ike. and
loomed fleasieelan concluded with movie his first
amendment, to Wert the words " and ad-
visedly."
Mr. CANNING declared he arm bind with more
*more tc Howse, than he • did
lb Has.
could

by
Right 'Hes. Goodman seemed to amene nifliblea.—
Anotber class, he aerosol, sboold tie neesspted ; and in
that also, it seemed as if the Right Hes. Gest. was mat
disposed to differ from hint. Yet, after all this, the con-
clusion he would have the Committee draw was, that be
was for sisromoderiog up the privileges of that Hoses.—
That was not his intention, be again repeated; all be
proposed, was to avert from the meritorious man • mea-
sure which was not called for. He wished that the dis-
tributioo of punishment should he made here as justice
demanded, and that those who were really guilty should
he the only objects of punishment. Bat be could not
tamely listen to • charge of being indifferent to the pri-
vileges of that House. No man could be • greater ad-
vocate for them; for, in tenth, be considered them a
great part of the bulwarks of our liberties. No man
was more forward when there was a real necessity, or
the apprehension of dangdr ; but he thought, at the
same tune, it was • nwusre of justice and poliry to
make some communions in favour of the innocent.—At
hest, his arguments deserved an answer, and the Right
Hon. Gentleness, before he launched into that splendid
strain of declamation, should have proved to the Com-
mittee, that all classes of persons connected with the
press were alike obnoxious to punishment. But the
Right lion. Gent. seemed to be in a state of great alarm.
He was at a lam to account fur the cause of it. There
were many kinds of fear, but this was the most unac-
countable of all. He remembered a saving of the late
blaster of the Rolls, upon an occasion like the present,
which would nut be unreasonable now to make vise
of. Sir W. Otani, in 'raking of fear, said, " I am
an enemy to all kinds of fear, but the most foolish of
all is, that of being thought afraid.—(Heart hear!)—
The Learned Gentleman then proceeded to explain the
arguments upon which he had founded his amendment.
Ile denied that he had courted the daily press, and that
he ever intended to hold it in terror over the House,
with a view to lainence its decisions. lie had asserted,
that there were distinctions to be made in the characters
of the persons connected with the press, and it was kn
possible for him to support his argument without it.
He had also endeavoured to show, that, confounding all
together in one class, was the way of making the
Gill inefficacious in its object. lint he again denied that
he bad talked of the influence of the press as an ar-
moot to overawe the House. If there were any Aft
like personal fear, it would indeed be disgraceful to am-
ciliate the press; but when the question was, whether a
body of men, of good characters and good conduct, was
Oohs alteebed by one course- more that, another, ra m
posheeird it was good policy, and not fear, that
I rube mot the line of conduct which the Comnsitteeeight
to Wept. lie concluded by saving, that the Right fins.
Oregonian opposite had ailvan;•erl nothing to induce him
is ohnsion the amendment a hich be had the honour of
progeohz, and that whatever might be its fate, be was
I =adit was a measure of prudence and expediency
opt it.
Yr. CANNI NO submitted to the House whether 'he
had notfaitiv and faithfully represented the sentiments
of his Hon. Priced. He wished to set himself right in
the estimation of the House, and to set his lion. Friend
right in his own recollection. He would appeal con&
fiend ' to the House, whether, in considering the argu-
i-toen of his Hon. friend, be had out attributed to finer
dy did expressions which he lead used. Did be set
is
1 take the very wone despotism from his lion. Friend, as
applied to the dominion which hail beer isesl by
annuls of the press? Did he not give the picture of a
1 pr.esoll exercising a power nolaunded over the public
I mind, through the medium of the press ? Hid he not
speak of that awe with which the public looked up to
this extraordinary and mystic personage, tile description
of Which reminded him a the passage in which King
Brander (he believed) described the genissibat hassled
the site of the Tarpeta• Rock to the awe struck pea-
lints:
Armies ipso
Oreditat se vidisse Jos/meant saps migrantes
AO& colicate et de;:tes nhabesque cleret.—Mear 9
The House would remember that the clouds were not
*Ming to perfect the resemblance.—(Hear, bear!}—
Bed was it possible for any one to he at a less to bad out
ii=suci• rode lieu was—this power, however te-
le awful concealment? Witt respect to the pro-
posed Amendment, he could not admit it, nor cool& he
emment to alter the necessary provisions of a Bill, be-
muse some innocent persons may fell. Much had bole
said of the Iran which the Legislature ought to entertain
when it was enacting patieukr measures. There were
carious kinds of fest : there was a provident fear, which
caution/sly prepared a secs against danger, and this
was the fru which he wished toseulcate on the,Houso.
Them was another fear, or, rather, faseinatioa, which
led the victim late the jaws of the monster who deroered

Mr. RROLVIIIAM spoke is favour of the asenduseat'
of hit lion. Friend. and 1, great detail showed where he
said it was wilseaderstood. He then stated' his atter ob-
jection to the punishment pf banishaseat for the seeisad
aroma He said it was pesoisely the was as transport
atioala thh sever, that I. coasequenee of a moped
whi4 !sista' itisoair the Sovereigns of Europe, to allow
N peeaoa frees the dominions of one into those of the
,Mho[ delihosit

_ a passport from his native Government, a
Seerepity of State had it in his power to refits, an in-
banbdred from &shad a pompon. sad ma-
guerdy to deprive him of a residence in any of the lb-
ropes? coastrks. What was this in effect hat the wont
sort ertramportation ? To add to the grievance, the per-
sons,mho might be sappelload to he the objects of this pa.
niehmset warty gemendly speaking, very far from bobs'
in cheat &moistures. There was another objectioa

--sanely, the reasnemsees °heading political writers
out orthe country, imbued with a hatred and a resent-
ment 'Eldest Ibis Government. He was not stating an
imagiamy cafe—for be would ask, who were oar bitter-
est 'simian America during the 'Weed the late war?
They were the Irish exiles.—(Hear, bear, bear 1)—In
Paris toe, they who wen hamdshed from Ireland Jurist
the enfortsame rebellion there, were the mod active, the

• , P I "0

t

honk b pampnit. He was delighted, lodged, to snd
that the goodtiste of the public had succeeded im rads%
dew, a periodical work, the Editor of which was singled
oat for the patronage of the Noble Lord opposite. The
works he particularly alluded to were TA. Satirist and
The Smarr.. The former it had been his professional
duty to eziesine; and hi should say, that halm and
more filthy slander was %ever heard together, than was
to be found in that detestabli publication. That filthy
week held out the most private parts of the private life
of individuals to public observation. In one instance,
there was a picture added to illustrate the odious history
of what was said to have passed is the chamber of one of
the most distinguished ornaments of the Peerage. Yet
the Editor of this abominable publication was rewarded
with the place of Consul, in New England too, where
parity was as mach prised as it was in any other part of
the world. This, to say the least of it, was a great Fere
of indiscretion. The floc. klember concluded by animad-
verting on the remark of an lion. Member on a former
night, relating to the education of the people.

Lord CASTLERBAOH said, that no one was move
disposed than he was to join in the reprehension of that
systematized attack on private character, to which the
lion. Member alluded. but he submitted to the House
that the Hon. Member had not treated him fairly, whets
he abstained from stating a very material fact, with re-
spect to the appointment of Mr. Manners, editor of the
Satirist, to the office of Consul. The lion. Member
would reeollect. that he (Mr. B.) hail formerly pot a
question to him (Lord Castlereagh) with respect to this
very individual, upon which inquiry was made, and the
result was certainly not such as to induce him to advise
the removal of this individual trom the.appeintment.
Until the question was put to him at the Imam he Dever
knew any thing of Mr. Manners's previous life.

Mr. BROUtiIIASI admitted that the person wits ap-
pointed before he asked at, question of the Noble Lord;
bet was it nut true that, after die inquiry, the Noble Lord
wangled that appointment.

Lord CASTLEKE.U.a. nid the fact was so; brit the
inquiry, such as it was, furnished no ground to justify
bins in setting aside the appointment.—(hear'.)
Mr. SCAKLETI' supported the amendment, and at.
geed to prove that the definition of libel contained in the
Bill might include cases thAt acre innocent and inad-
vertent, or even laudable, as well as thus. which were
really of a criminal character.
Sir JAMES MAIM STOSII requested to know' why
the example of the Act of the 36th ut the King bad been
departed from in the present Bill? in that Act, the
words " maliciously and advisedly" were used before
" writing and publishing."

The ATTORNEY-IiENEILII, said tbat the Bill now
before the House dill 81)t introduce any new caner,
but wily went to coact an arruutulati►e puoishowat fur
an offence well known to the Isw. The wurds proposed
by the amendment were not drrefore necessary, or could
serve to imply a donbt upon tite law; besides die word
" maliciously must of necerAty be introduced into all
indictments tdr

Mr. SCARLETT said, that he recollected when it was
customary to insert the word " falsely" in an indict-
ment for libel ; and lie hoped that the word " malicious-
ly" might not share the same fete during the office of
the present Atturnet-lieneral.
After a few words more from Sir Julys *MEIN-
TOM Colonel Eccisoy, the ATTORNEY linnnast, and
Mr. SCMILETT. the gallery was ordered to he cleared;
but the amendment was subsequently negatived without
a division. _ _ .

- -
Mr. IW.NMAN opposed the chime arida emeheirlsod
the Seismre of works once convicted as libels, on the
ground of the uncertain noon- oft of libel.
After a few words from the ATTO SOLICTeCIe
OZNUIAL. sod Mr.'. P. tin %NT, the Chia* was pot
agreed to.
On the motion of the ATTORNEY GENERAL the
clause relative to a second conviction was amended ho
the insertion of the words " after the passing of the
Act" to prevent a rctrospertive operation. The Attor-
airy General also proposed, that the words " term of
years" should ty • inserted in the clause of banishment.
instead of " inch time as the Court might think lit." He
said, that as the clause then stood, the indefinite time
might extend to a banishment for life, the consequence
of rbich would be. civil death, and the forfeiture of his
property; but the-words " trrut of years" could never be
taken as commensurate with life, nor produce the con-
sesine.ooMl of attainder, and therefore the heir would suc-
ceed is the regular way to the property.
Mr. BROUGHAM proposed, that lb, term should be
limited to seven years. which was supported by Sir
JANIS MACILINIOIOI, Mr. (instil% and Mr. G. Lawn, and
opposed by the ATTORNIT and SOLICITOR GENERAL, mid
Lord Cite T • MIN.
Toe Committee then divided upon the clause, as
amended by the Attorney-General. Olen there ;petted.
. For the clause - - I
Against it • - • - - 311

-

ItlAjori'y • - TO
TM several Claim being gone throne,. the Report
of the 11ft11 *as hrunfht np.
Me. *Merman filt YtiATE proposed a Clause Oar limit-
lag thairatioa of the Bill to three jean, which was
gt without a division.
was Own ordered to be real a third am this
drp—Alkjeansed M Half past Two sieloek.

sorra AMER-TAN PAre7llo7r.
Guayana, Oct. 14.—The poet has jilt arrived
. dim far
_capital of New CGOSSIII, where *very
Ibingloeb lamentable. We hop sows to we bollk
ha otaliattha and Carabgeni hue, hr there the'
Spaniards are on their lest •IteL A respeetable
brae has bete ssistdopkese# me seas le
the aid are Thit StoloWh sylzawb:
disappe hos MegieriMa. Several
belonging. to the Ragland of Hartigan* have come
over **jaw us at Malaria. We bare jut receired
a home, him* ea Wald a quantity of sold is
bails, resolved Is Ilasta Fe. This snooty will be
chiefly appopelated to the purchase of astskets,
the only artists now we niaterially want, and the
moose they come the better.
ANGOSTURA, OCT. 12.—The whole of New ell-
mode ma now be coosidered free, with the might
doe of Cartbagsoa. Owlet to the armament In
bad been sant overland to rein/twee Liao, Dinah
loft here of Spaniels troops, lq
e the conquest has hews how
there is only a wall gunk es;
perinea of Annoquia dies not et-
ehisly Wended to lewd tb• 1411••
oar troops have hese seat es to
sod 1,300 to Pomo, wide
liberate all the.sesdeinglese
the 1110100.1".-.** 11":4111
• Mill stir es

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