The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-05-26 00:00:00

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•If any man could, Without
such a proposition, what could t
ass Roman Catholic or as an
appeared to him that a Roman Ca
holding.ther,doctriaes •of his. clut
agree': to r doeskin Btil
06041 cuitsent, he could. not •
font itr and •Pieister Weald 'Consent,.
.tiff must still have investiture and confirmation ;
and therefo*re the appoititMents anicl-not be cent.
pleted without his coadent. But eves atilie sheikh
consent, he must in thiii:and other things., proceed:,
as his gaoler chose. Weald that mien: 84T this,
wheu.the very. object •was staled .to'.lto4 to
price Bonaparte of • whatever influence be XVIII
otherwise have ?• As the Pope could only •;lietti
coed ,to confirmation and investiture witly:thO
consent of Bonaparte, this proposition wts
one for transferring that Veto to - Bona.
parts which. the Catholics of Ireland had de-
nied to. their lawful Sovereign. Ho saw no way in
which this proposition could be earriedinto effeet.
tut supposing that could be carried into effect,
which the:Right Honourable Gentleman propoeed
only se expedient for want of something better;
suppnic it were to be acceded to on the one hand
iu opposition ta thedoetrines of their own church;
Was .it stosopable that a Non.Catholie Goxern-
'tient should accept of it? They (the Protestants)
thought they had cleared away from their religion
the dross of Tuder ages, cud the .influence of the.
Clergy over the laity was far from being SO extent
sive as that of the Roman Catholic Clergy. The
influence of the higher order of their Clergy,
without meaning any thing offensive to them, was.
of a different kind (ruin that of the pasture of
'ephemeral sects which existed today and were
gone to.morrow. The prelates were more polite:-
fel, inasmuch a's they had nut only a mortrexten.,
sive, but star more regular and permanent Wain.
vice. The Right. Honourable Gentleman epp'64:.
'site might say, that this was merely a spiritual
power. 'this was true;' but after what the Right
Honourable. Gentleman himself bad admitted, ,he
mast he aware that spiritual power right be• used
as an engine to . promote temporal ititereste, and
improper views of .ambition. The • security was
unattainable ;but even, if it could be attained, the
Houk) could hardly be •preparedivere,ept of
04 those grOtinds he gave the, oiotiop bis.decided
negative. at could Co'mtuittee. 40.! fit
.
took thPec urity pcoposed byttheskliigke Mort
able letstleositu eihrpe),,tbey.coeldhase no as-
,surance that it would hu. allowed ;Najiff, even if it
shotild he agree? zo;*it would onkthe kransferriug
that reto to i, whic.h.tteg peso, refusal to
ilieSiivereign of thoscAiogdoms.... •
Si NErigoitT imp, We claim of the Catlin-
- tics had been ler "a considerable time. evaded,
tiirPllo tcrulinsiwiajeg :twin the t• (imitation
Grath,.wlitch had at length bocit abandoned, ur at
le.tst sit Ifered .to, k jer.atimte•iptw•oblivion. The
ground lit6Y.hatt,iprtoscd the wishes. of
, Caitliolitafgaiwt*geostmetion of the, Coro.
n,ttlin,Parti foond perfectly untenable, they
tigilictmcii,*another,.aed ,now ,ohjeoted • to going
nap a .I..ornf-ittee on the subject. And why ?
fiitca,use it IT.. aaid,, that Oat suggested by his
unattainable. De-
c.:ll4.4lst* wished fur•could nut be attained,
th'ey refund to go tutu.a Committee to consider if
Obey, coulffafford the suffering Catholics redress by
any., other ineans. They stated their claims to
those rights which they,,thought ought to be re-
stored to them,, They asked hut for what had been
taken away from Mete, and to which they con-
ceived their loyalty. and their general good conduct
gave them a claim. It should be recollected, that
that of which they complained teas not imp-osed
till long after they had been, uoder a Protestant
Government. It was impolitic, to-deny those rights
they claimed, as we could !savants tofety but in
embodying the whole nation as one • man in the
mighty cause in which we were engaged. Without
those rights, they could not embark.us heartily in
the cause as they otherwise, would.•if the road to
preferment and to glory were thrown open to them.
The soldier could not be so. animated when pre.
eluded from rising above a certain rank in the ar.
my, as when it was
:possible for his rowed' to.
raise him to the rank of a General,. and enable him
to emulate a Marlborough's fame. Blake and
O'Donnell, who had fought so gloriously in the
cause of Spain, were Catholics. We were ready
to admire their talents, and do justice to their va-
lour. Why then did wa.shut thwae.vut front glory
in their own country, of tfliconeteAnld not sufr
ficiently, express pur admirotior ,while they Were
fighting in another Why Welfare, eihulica
,to
be .so muck, suspected of being attiched.,to the to.
terests of frasice.? In various. parts.of
•
catholicshad been found iii arms against. seance,
laud fighting with as much ardour as could possibly
animate Protestants in the cause. Why then was Ca-
tholic valour doomed to pine nottneteed, unre ward.
ed in ear arlitylen nst.groundkesistinl, for
believing Gatholl ticafi ected tor/wilt franca.?
lie would now proceed to anOtlier,,,..ooo-Ce•
When o Catlto4c quafi ed hiegoifliog the Bar;
why was hg there too denjediptonsotkon ? Could as
Catholic liedaolgerons as Kistg'ii..Contr,el ?
,could,
he he dangerope as Ring,'s Serjettit..t .Sorely. not.
The Barenct then proceeded:it° isiottiee why
I cause had been given for 44644R.,,qmP1410, hie
bad epnie,over froin thq•arotp iu,:s3gily.,l, Why,
ce.roke.Catholie.Clergymen refusediarcess to the,
Coiolio soldiers there!? If they "recap:tested 444'
whet could be expected from -.then; lint. languid,
compliance and passive pbedietiCe3 Give the Ca.
(ldic the samnendopragenient, my). hi; will cm.
lark an. the cease, with the samclaplpar as the Pro-
lettaut. But ondes all these disfantragiggeircum.
stances, they.had• embarked beartily..in the cause.
We had been obliged to acknowledge it fypeetydly
,•over anit.river
deserved. well. • 'rho; syatem puratte4 sitemtal tohe
0101440 rensPiAnianste &Om, :deter, Acs , ntevetiti
.their deacrs,iog better., This. was tnciF we, *tit;
Lusintosucli',4 0011 length .64T.011, 49, PreVe'
10eir. taco/ming Maori& or. Sub.lrhegiffs., yho
ant Jtkew,. twio seyeitply on the Catholics.. k, wyrl
tgNe titath4444lY in some Inteatire tenspered br
_the growling,Oboraiity of the Protestants'. in.
,Ire-;
laud; bat , he contended, that the "Ligisiature
onght not to suffer so large a potato oI the ,Peo.
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77771

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7,11TIIR1/41,0104,
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toleration, Its be so far depots 1C l*
oe of the testant Government. lie that
had the stronger reasons I principle there could be no abjerlkon 40 ititlaims.
It was remembered what He assured the House that it watt of the intese
to them at tite ,Peittoiti.setion of the Clergy to run before the Galore..
lieldetut to jhe Catholics- were 'tient In this messuee ; they did not at all ape
boundftareAment to .re. pear jealeos of the potter of the State, nor cone
lore thiW Oise' , almost as sitter it te'lsoinconseistent with the tenets of their
, compelled to do so by a Church. • This circumstance was but a small
written bond." Mr. put said et that timete•(We branch of thd• intended system ; the detail would
'ere a diiided anddistracted. people, *Weakened and ' not be entered into until it had been wholly ape
Ilishiniltelieittiti diateesionte kwhich under existing proved of by the -Government, and by his Mai
_circumstances must be interminable; ets_ long as jesty, anO brought forward
_ln
.its proper shape;
one councils ere separate, .prudeuce (wrist admit Whatever communication there might be with the
that which, united, generosity emighf cremate." Scold' Rome, it shook! be made with the know.;
.passe.d under its eye;
Two years after that period, .10,r.-Pitt, when feat. ledge of: Government, and
ling office, had stated it to be his opinion, that 'an i in order that .every Improver attempt might be
extension of the rights of Protestants to Catholics prevented. The priivisioas of the arrangement were
was as innocent and safe after the Union, as it nut new, or foreign, or inconsistent; other some
would have been dangerous before. It had been had been similarly endowed ; in Ireland, the dish
Said, why did not Cat olics come forwardto make. senters had received endowment, which tended
inch and such concessions ? It was not for them, to the increase of that body. However, he did nut
to do so; bat it was fur us to state to them under quite, approve of the measure. The arrangetneet
what restrictions we were willing to afford the intended was of a similar nature to that Midi
privileges they desired. It was impossible to think with respect to the Roman Catholic Clergy of
BO same zeal could be felt in the common cause Scotland, which extended to the endowment of
*along men between whom smelt a disparity of ins, schools, and for which the Senof Rome expressed
forest existed. That enthusiasm in the cause of his great gratitude . and approbation. The Pope of
country which is felt by him wit() shares its priti- that day was not jealous; he knew that great pave
leg-es, could not be expected from men who felt' of the Spiritual was necessarily interwoven with
they were not Complete sharers in them.. 4;40s net , the -*Temporal GOiertiment.* The Catholics of
in human nature. To give, all an equal interest Ireland are at•prreleti tin a greater dependence on
in the preservation of the country,, its privilegtet ette-Ver Rome than qtly other Catholic country%
should he alike open. to all. It had been 'aid Ca-. The . on. Baronet (Sir S. C. Hippesley) stated
, tholic Emancipation was not dmired by the great that all. Irelend .except six dioceses received the
' body of the Irish people, as the beneficial effects of Council of Treat. lie understood there were
it could not exteil4 to lilt lower orders. Ile coeld only two %gel did not e. ie fist the white come.
ant better express the sense of the People of teesi try considers its Church governed by the council
lied than in the words of their petition, in wttieli OtTrent, a Council, driven thither by the tem.
they stated thal of which they complaincillutes tile poral povier in conserinence of encroachments,
rinse of daily humiliation. Driwino an impasime aid reluctantly acceded to by the Pope. All its
hie line ef separation, it divided the nation and arrangeinents augmented the authority of the See
kept animosity alive, while emancipation ttiey re- of Rome; it was composed of Italian Bishops,
ejarded as that for the absence of whiclrthere exist- and ended without accomplishing its pm-poses,
ed, no compensation.. . . „Ii ~ . nit!' a direct reservation, however; of all VI)
. Lord CASTLEREAGH did not emiceitro it to rights of the See of Rome. ' This Cetincil vas
be eecessary for him then to state' hie setttiments never recognized by the Gallican Church; it neves
on.the general question. Could tee, privileges of received its tenets, as they tended to insure its fibers
Protestants be given to the Catholics with security, tics.—The Catholics of Irelandt. however, con.
itotreuld greatly inerease the streneoll'of the Em- shier its regulations as a code.' Ile was aeare.of
pine; but so continued was he et the impossibility the notion, that great mischiefs would arise front
of so doing, that la the Irish Parliament, elisions episcupacy existing in the Catholics of Ireland.--.
as he was to betieftl„the pepulatiou of helmt, illthought it would make people mere limo.
he did not think' they could withsafety be commit. cent, • mid- less detrimental- to the Protesliiitt
aicated to them. The question was, loukkrg at , Church. If there is a great body of Catholic in.
the power of the Cuthotic and Protestant parties, terest, the great question is hew it can be go.
• iettether, their elitinii being allowed, the preittiea_ emoted with safety, lie did not wish that it
ble Catholic power which might.get Into the rye, shuttle exist at all ;as every danger arises front
tern, would 'be sufficient to et-Wailer the I:Tercet. dissenting interests, if so, the' great object is,
ant Government and Estiblishmentet., Ifeecueld to separete it trout fereign authority. .—.llO
not separate. the Catholics from. other dissenters. did not wish that the name of the Cathie.*
lie did eut *reflect
_oil their tri'i.killy, bitt lir !iva's lic kilthinil, ihoold class - with that• of the
impossible to suppose that a dissenter. cooed •he as _Estalt;seed Church. EeiScoOacy, he thought;
much attached to the Protestant Chute% a! ones teiettres•vell exist in the Catholic Chureh,of Ire.
of the same litany. It was, : therefore, to hr land' as its the Presbyterian of 'Scottand.---e
considered whether or net the Churelv was sufli. ,//earl hear neellaving thus fat. entered Into eZ.,
ciently strong to contend ant only with the Ca- . planation, he wished noweeo make a few (Mere
tholic hut &tins with, the Protestant Dissenters. ration's on what degree of • understandingoliere wait
His feeling vise eas, that if the Catholics could respecting the Union, anti what degree of mime..
concile theniselees to give tbe.' pledge required of !aeon. was held one He ttid not wish that Ire.
m' the, a great advantage would thence be derived -laud 'should have the iittaession of -being unfairly
to the State. It was his 'opinion at the
.Union, dealewith. If there beilla44otew real seetppointe
that those. privileges should be giien to the Catho- merit, he did not deseeie 66-nlo4e-of a Ststesmai
tics, if they could with security, but never at a.or an honest man. At the time of the Unioth
simple concession. The Right Hen. Bert. in' there wasoio-pronlise made to the Catholic's be.
quoting Mr, Pitt's speech on that occasion, bad yield the arrangement already soiled. He, Mr.
passed over the most remarkable.expression. 'lle Pityrind Lord Cornwallie, had 'a strong desire
never pledged Governmeneto follow Any ,partleis7 that what was or might .be dour, should not
lar line of coadiret. His words were, e°' What_. seem to grow from any previous engagement.
veer.' course_ may. be pursued' Itan'_Uttion , will lle did net now mean that there was nothing to
prove 4 blessing to all. parties, unit the, Imperial give expectation ; on the contrery, lie op:
Legislature will. bo ie A condition in which they prehentled :that impressions might Mere bee*
may grant or .refuse with greater earetes,” Speak- I created from' extraneous' c-iihnistatices, but per/
big thus, lie pledged GoveriOnent .-totailopt- no I sitively not from any promise. As tor.
specific measure, the comma° litteoessned was as hiennd Mr. Pitt's langeage- went, it was dii.
an after consideratioo. ,The Catholic hierarchy ' tinetly reverse twa promise, and went only to
had more influence than arty other tlissenting hier- sey ahat measures might' afterwards result from
achy. It ought to be separated front foreign in. the Legislature; if any of the leading Catholita
&emu, and never connected with Government at had it in his power to prove this statement false,
hoMe. As long as Iceland was a Catholic cotintrye he would do him a great favour by comhig; for.
it would vindicate the rigbts'of its Clergy against, ward. If any part of, the Catholics drew a fa•
the see of .liente., .„The countries winch were 1, vourable aspect from any of the discussions on
most bigotted to the catholic fitieh were etways I
the Union, -there were many others whO did the
alarmed at the form of authority ; in Spain
,they 1-reverse. In corroboration of these statements he
went so far, in pet-Mention- es' to alin, VA OW-
• .... hl• gged the Hoene to recollect the correspon-
course with the see of RAW, nor were theyeebe deuce between his Into Right Hollows*
ject even to iieeontrouVeristeßeetlotte Atelkustria Friend and the Melt GorernMent. On the same ••
every thin wits under:the temporal authority, Ili subject he held in his hand a Memorandum of
France the Papel.,piowe,ehtidoto mere. to do sit(, Lord Cornwallis's, which he then reed. HO
the appointmeneof its .Biskeets,theo it 10i tot die trusted the House would perceive that he' did
with the Protestant Clargy;:herc...., ThiP tatter . list go front his duty in the explanation of
principle 'was not limited Se -Catholic' countrio.l .facts..---IVllatever the. dieussion 'night he helve
in Prussia awl 411tOsaia die Bishops , Nero always after; he -hoped there would not be introduced
apeointed by' tee Monarelts, elt ceamet, be stated, a spirit of acrimony. Ho would vote mote
' (rein the constant practicewf the Catlkolie Church, precisely as he had done before on the same geese
that sucli.cootroel can lie negatived. Oh eppre. ikon, but it would be chiefly on The groundi that
!bonded tut the Catholics, in the present . ease, he did not feel, (ruin the present circumstances Or
pressed their claims 'on the LegOlattsre in their the country, this to be a proper time for the Car'
proper situations. 'The Cettilefie MITA, had 'hi. ' hi. tholies to iqtroduee , their' claims, although he
therto eons, 4,n, nithontlintriaeriAcent itadode l would freely admit theme provided they were to
trine. In 1740,- Lord Comiinilli4oannuttlena.d -Make concessions eonsistmit with the faith and rni-
tho plan cov-erttetuita.lol4 diutilaPPiOlt, respect to Mir of their Church. If he was to have advise&
the Catholic* Bisheeer ; eitor4Stlifigtavent.• stood them, he would not have persuaded them to bring
on the tdifferent iiiatiltdi4itialhtroin/ittiett Tart their question forward at any period, since the'
of the question.. The ellettekootis sivririi; that Union took place. Nothing he come ended
all eletse who tiliatpltreiid ItiOtauelrielfect to 'More than.the temperate manner in which it had'
'hat only, which wiritleeite * .thie bergs .in a Veink.brought forward by the Right
.Honoutablie
situation' beyebd all eomPeNtirt e the were in; Gentleman; However, Ire was of opinion, AA(
a state of abject iloveily; Yet" ;they .'woeltr not the Catholic diseession had setter diminished thane
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give way to the feeftilei or thi,s ji. trite.', lie was: increased the number of its friends; the cause ha*
convinced they were *able of iidtiargint. (he; suffered. Could any Committee be more tag.;
highest services, and lte.lhoyeht.theirlirrangemeot 'wardly situated than that which is called on for w
would he a Measure.ealenleto leeitok the oliffer. discussion on a question without any
framed plan?
,ences.of the country. ;.,I.)A f.h,oegitt it, !petit be He could not conceive any thing so utigatoey and
.injurious to tietctril, VlLlTe,„ol.4ifpct.iii4unco: so mischievous., With respect to-the interest it.
,Over their clergy,' f i% evssuebtekoteteas impose. self, nothing could throw it at so immeasurable W
eeible to doubt,, bet wt. the aippirrwten o(, qtr. distance:. He had the impression that their claims'
quinstoncee, *seer t,t ovettld
.4 coultantly lettli might be complied with, consistent with Protestant
rootlet, te enjust opeinuetionse ; One, pare 'of the sefety, if connected with the necessary safeguards.- •
arrangement me/tested by 40/eminent has, cm.; Since the Union, be' had observed in Cie Protest_.
fluid simply to the necessity- ec. being . informed' ants a select/ince to the measure; he aas • satisfied
who the titular Bisliep was tie lee that it 4:igki the Roman Catholics might expect every thing froue •
have it in itaisower to makcjiny reasonable (Alec- the liberalit of the Protestant mind. Bigotry '
tion. He conceived it would powerfully, satisfy would exist' us all religions, yet •he wits- confident
the feelings both of the State and of tire country,' the Protestants were a most liberal and a more en.
if Ireland kart the; its Bishops received the nage ' lightened body, and would greet the claims of their
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'Cir: •,..
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.. f Y , . fSMAN
w,‘ 4 - . ,
colliers . 1 Mitt; ,'ple,to be objeets of tolera
they thintof • him ;Felton others. They h
1 honest man ? It fork complaining %sten i
Catholic, sincerely. prospects wertV4 nut
church* could' not ~3'h peits tkh held"(
Lit eve* it the laitir' stith ooaht to have bc
that • thi. dross ere' grieelltkes bet'
(meld. (The Pon; ninch.lis if Ahoy had been