The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-07-09 00:00:00

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I . NEW GLOBE fe Usteed WM the Sisistsaii.

LONDON, WEDNJESDAY,- JULY 9, 1823.

" The Cause for which HAMPDEN fell is the Field, and SYDNEY died or the Scaffold!"

also the Lottery and the Irish Coutt of Chancery
Bill.
Lord ROLL AND moved the second reading of the Mar•
riages Abroad Bill; and said be should move the third
reading to-morrow.
The Slave Trade Acts Consolidation Bill was read a
first tins,.

years, and net'from this most uncertain time ; and in that
respect he thought the Bill ought to undergo some altera-
tion. With respect to the agistment tithe, the owner of
land being exempted from that tithe, had his right se.
cured to him by the Union, end by the laws of the
country. A man had taken land under the faith of that'
1 exemption, aid was be now to be deprived of his righ,s?
1 This was a sacrifice of interest, which might be indispen-
sable for patine tranquillity; but here was an abandon-
' meat of a right without an equivalent, and which would
not be likely to add to the general tranquillity of the
country. He, therefore, thought that the part of the
Bill which went t • subject agistment land to the tax
ought to be alter. I. On the whole, this measure was
very imperfect. He thought this Ui'l should be accom-
panied by another measere to facilitate the commuta-
tion of tithes, and be thought such a system should be
introduced as should establish the land-owners, which
would be the best Of all modes of rewarding them for
the performance of their duties. They would then be
placed io &stinted,' better caAlated than any other,
to enable tan discharge theft several duties—it
would preretat-Wr the eontlicts and enmity tbarexisted
hetweentbem awl the cultivators, and would dispose
them too ewe ergelar pettorruatwe of their clerical du-
ties. Therefore, he thought a channel should be *pett-
ed for providing land for the Clergy, which would ren-
der them moreindependent, more respectable, and in-
cremee their prosperity, as well as the tranquillity of
the country. From this measure he did not anticipate
any advamage, but he would support it, because he con-
sidered it as an opening to wome better measure.
The Earl of HA BROW BY defended the provisions
lof the Bill. Mt thought the principle of reciprocity was
fully secured. and as to the aglattneet tithes, lie did
net think • that any hardship would fall on the owners
of atistment lands, because they could vote at the
evades, and only a swill rate would be laid on
their lands. The value of this measure was not to
be estimated by pounds, slitilier, and pence, but
would go to remove one of the most galling evils that
eeer afaictedireland. With respect to die gi vier of land.
ed property to the Clergy, it was a measure which hr
looked up to.as likely to be adopted hereafter, and likely
to
TlrioedrirltohfeCABßtNberanietti;Nl ve°anselt°7l:l his pinion that
they must get rid of tidies, or they would get rid of Ire-
land; and as the present measure appeared to be a first
step towards a work of real itnportance and utility, he
should assent to it. This was but en imperfect -Isegln-
ning, but it might lead to a most important and useful
regulation. With respect to the seven years' average, he
thought it an unfair criterion,
The Earl of HARROW BY explained. The Bill pro-
vided that a new settlement, should be wade every three
years..
The ,LORD 4HANeIiL44OII pointed to a clan*e
which obviated the ohkeetionof the Noble-Lord (Career-
von) As to averages. He himself felt ro: the slightest
objection to the Bill.. The word tax had bees applied,
but wrongly applied to tribes, for tithes wt-re no tax; the
land-owner was the owner of nine-tenths of the laud, and
the clergy the owners of the other tenth.
The Earl of LIYBILPOUL observed, l '
ereply 'to what
had been said in favour of a commu'adon of tithes for
lend, Bag be' eished the present Bill first to be passed,
and haves fair trial in [relied. Let It be seen bow far
the country gentlemen of Ireland would assist it into
effect, sod theta is the next Session of Parliament their
[medal:ape might determine how* far it wield be advise-
able to adopt the other measure. ' •
Lord CLIFOEN gave notice that to-uforeOw he should
propose a cainpulsory clause to the Bill,'
The Bill was then read a second time, laird ordered to
be committed to-aurrow, fur which day tins Lords are
summoned.

The Irish Cistome Ditties Bill was read a second time.
Lord MELVILLE moved the second reading of the
Scotch Juries Bill.

'1 be Earl of LAUPERDALE objected to certain clauses
of the Bill
Lord MELVILLE said it was exactly similar to a Bill
which had been passed in a former Session, sod which
had been found to answer the wished for purpose.
The Bill was read a second time.
Mr. W. COURTINst brought up a message front the
House of Commons informing the House that the Coot
mona had agreed to tint amendments made by their Lords
ships in the Prison Bill.
Mt. BROGDCN brought op the Irish Court of Chancery
and Exchequer Stamps Bill, Lord St. Vince/it's Pension
Bin, arc.
_.,'
Lord AUCEMAWDrportsd the Liman* ilierdotilon
Bill.
fitZgorrHElL ,
The Earl of LIVER rose to move die second
reading of the Irish Tithe Commutation Bill. He began'
by stating that this was a measure of the greatest import-
ance, and particularly in that put of the United Empire
to which it mins !lately applied. It was besides the first
measure of the kind that was ever adopted by Parliament.
He was aware that this Measure was likely to be opposed
by two descriptions of persons. In the first place some
might object thatit would endanger the interests of the
Established Church ; anti others might think that the
measere did not go far enough. For his Gen part he was
the last man in the world who would introduce anything
that tended to affect the interests of the Established
church, to which uo one wee more attached than himself.
He was friendly to the Established Church, as a system
the molt beneficial that could exist in the country. The
C• welt of the United Kingdom was one Church ;and it
was the duty of Parliament to secure and preserve it
entire. And although lie thought no obtrusive means
should ever be resorted to fur prtiducing conversion
a•nong those who differed from that church ; although
,he was convinced that any measure of that kind would
be most unwise; yet be should ever look up to the pro-
gress of knowledge as 'intimately connected with the
Established Church; Ind should ever consider that any,
thing that affected the interest of the clerical body in'
Ireland, as the greatest. public injury that could take
place. Many differences of minion had existed with
regard to tt is question; but lie would say that in the
pres ott Ca edition of Ireland, the resident Ministers of
r he &Lahti Is d Church were am 'nest the most useful
menio that country. They contributed by there pre-
ceptind exa nple to enlighten the inhabitants t and if
any b ng zooid serve to renter their residence more de,
siral e i. waulti be the m tasure then before the House.
Hip o jec 'n lie Hansen ling ill's Bill to the ado 'don of
their t.o . ls I is, was not to weaken but to give Annetta
to the Established Chereli of Ireland, by doing away
the cause. which inlured and wesk-ned that establish-
ment. It was because he believed this measure would be
highly advantageods to the Established Church that he'
proposed it. He di l not na.ir intend to enter into a,
mjnute discussion as to the advantages or disadvantages
of paying the Clergy of Ireland by tithes ; bat he be.
lieved that. no more than two.thirds of the tithes of that
, ountry were in possession of the Clergy. He did not,
however, by any msams concur with those who thought
that tithes were an objectionable soda of paying the
Clergy;, for he knew very well that all those parts of the
kingdom where tithes had been paid in kind, were pre-
eminent in agricultural improvement and industry. lint
the evils which prevailed in Ireland did not arise from
the payment of tithes, but from multitudes of small farms
with indigent cultivators; from that subdivision of pro.
rerty, witch prevented the existence of a middle class in
that country—that middle clan which constituted the
most useful of all persons in the community. He rested
the merits of this Bill not on the ground of any objection
to tithes in the abstract, but to the peculiar state of Ire-
land, which differed wholly from that of England. Here
his Lordship proceeded to state the leading provisions of
,the Bill; the chief of which rested On the principle of
voluntary composition; and another provision went to
introduce a compulsory principle in case the voluntary
one failed. Parochial vestries were to constitute one
part of the machinery for carrying this Bill into effect;
and nothing could be more beneficial to Ireland generally,
than the establishment of vestries of that kind. After
explaining the different enactments of the Bill, be said lie
did not mean to represent it as a perfect measure; no
new measure ever could be perfect at first; and it was
only by experience it could be rendered free from ob-
jections. Their Lordships had only to try the experi-
ment by passing the measure, and those parts of it which
might be found defective might afterwards be corrected.
The Marquess of LANSDGIVN said he did not rise to
object to this measure imperfect as it was, because any,
thing that went even to remove the smallest grievance.
should be acceptable as a boon ; but it must never be sup
posed that it was a measure sufficient to correct the
numerous abuses and grievances that existed in Ireland.
The proposed composition might soften and qualify the
unfortunate Act that had just been passed fur suppressing.
insurrections in Ireland; and it fully showed the necessity
of some step for amending the Constitution of Ireland.
It was declaring to all the world that under the existing
Government the unfortunate causes of calamity still
existed in Ireland; and Government was thus driven into,
• the acknowledgement of the existence of an evil which the
Parliament had so long neglected to remedy. On every
view he could take of the measure then before the House,
I he considered it not only imperfect, but complicated in
its niachinery. There was, for instance, a great difficulty in
organizing vestries; he thought the Bill would not be
acted upon in a spirit of fair reciprocity between the
parties. Before the Government took up this question,
he considered the Church to be as much interested in the
Bill as the payers of tithes. Both parties must he cob.
sidereel as equally interested in it; and therefore the
principle of perfect reciprocity ought to be adhered to.
If the tranquillity of the country nes the real object of
this Bill, the Clergy steer as deeply interested in the pre-
servation of that tranquillity, as any other Members of
the State; and therefore the advantage of recipro it),
should extend equally to them. Whatever latitude was
a !opted, he wished that latitude should extend equally to
bath soles. On the question of averages, be could nut
comprehend the principle of fixing on a period of seven
veers. These men years would include several years
preciow to the operation of what was called Mr. Peel's
Bill. Whatever differences-uf opinion there might be as
to the operation of that Bill, it could not be consistent 1
with justice to include in an average a period in which
the restored currency had not been in operation, and
during which Bore had been an artificial rise of prices.
It would be a great opprewlieboe the peasantry of Ireland
to inclutie in ttre average such a period, in whiada-nrices.l
sere nominally high to a very great extent. Therefore he
thought the magus ought to be taken from some other

The BUS on the table being. read in their stages, the
[louse at Eight o'clock adjuurned.

HOUSE. OF COMMO'fifS.—Tasee.tr.
At Fonr o'clock the SPEAKER; attended: _by the
Members present, were called up to the House of Lords
to hear the Royal Assent given by Commission to aye-,
ral Rills; which the Speaker, on hie cetera, reported to
the House—(for which see Lords' Report.)
Mr: :Allison, from the East 10414 House, brogght op the
Amounts of the Revenue and Charges of India for the
last year.—Laid on the table.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR presented a petition from John
M‘Ctouzl, an inhabit !tit of the North Riding of York-
shire, complaining of having been overcharged by souse
Revenue Collectors.—losid on the table,
On the motion 9f Mr. F. BUXTON, accounts were or-
dered of the itionb .r of beshels of malt that paid duty.
from Jan. l82:2 to J.lO. 182 j.
Copies were also ordered ef. the Correspondence for
the last five years between the Government and the Com-
missioners for putting down tbe Slave TMdm •