The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-01-24 00:00:00

tHE STATESMAN.

111•11 111.....
ble Friend had alluded. There was one subject to
which his Noble Friend had alluded, which, he con-
fessed, seemed to him to be of very great import-
persona were appointed to exer-
ciseauthority in inferior jurisdictions,
a n c import-
ance—namely,
ecclesiasticaln ame I y , th at
without possessing the reqiiisite qualifications. The
Statute required that no Chancellors or other officers
of inferior jurisdiction should beappointed, unless
were persons skilled in the civil law, and alio in
' ttreypractice of it. This enactment, however, was not
only eluded, but it was expressly disobeyed. Ile had
in his eye an lion. and Learned Friend ,of his, who
filled the principal judicial situation in our Supreme
Ecclesiastical Court (Sir William Scott), and, he
could only say, that if all the Ecclesiastical Jurisdic-
tions in the kingdom were equally attended to, we
should hear -of no complaints such as those now
stated to the House by the Noble Lord. The clause
in the statute provided, That no person should be
qualified for any ecclesiastical office of a judicial na-
ture, unless he were 26 years of age, skilled in the
Civil and Canon Laws, and practised in them. This
Act passed in the year 1603. In the year 1616, a
Petition was preseuted to the Archbishop, complain-
ing of the appointment of a son of the then Bishop
of L'Andall to one of those inferior jurisdictions,
without his being duly qualified according to law ;
and on this representation the person objected tp was
removed. In tli'd. year 1625, a similar representa-
tion was made as to the son of the Bishop of Here-
ford, who was removed in like manner. An appli-
cation was some time afterwards made at Common
Law, to remove a p.l-son of the name of Sutton,
which was refused. Bat in the reign of King Wil-
liam, on an pligation made to remove a person of
the name of Jonas, from out' of the inferior ECClcw
siastical Jurilldictions, on the ground of his not be-
ing duly qualified, he was accordingly removed. It
was obvious, therefore, that the law was at one tine
istrictly acted up to and enforced, and that it was
I not deemed enough that persons appointed should
have practised, but that they should also be skilled
lin the Civil and Canon Law. It had now, however,
become too much the practice for those who had the
,
patent right to such appointments to imagine that
I they were entitled to appoint their own sons or other
' relations,
__ without at all. regarding their qualifica-
tions. This was a matter of great importance, and
deserving of bring strictly looked into; for, waist-
ever the law was, if it was not duly administered, it
was of little moment. A Committee he (Mr. Her-
bert) was of opinion, could be of no service to re-
medy this evil.
Mr. Glt KNF EL.'. said a few words expressive of
a doubt, whether in the case of Mary Ann Dion
there were any proofs of minority before the Court.
I Sir W. SCOTT thought that the Noble Lord was
not quite apprised of the extent of his motion, and
of' the great number of inferior Courts of Eccle-
siastical jurisdiction in the country. lie was far
from being of opinion, that, if necessary, the House
ought to shrink from their duty on this subject, how-
, ever laborious; but, he conceived, that unless it
were proved absolutely necessary, they should pause
before they concurred in the motion of the Noble
, Lord. Let the consequence be considered, of bring-
ing up for examination from every quarts/ vast
number of persons, at an expence for the
petty emoluments of their respective situations would
I afford no adequate compensation. If it were proved
I that there existed mischievous and unprovoked op.
Ipression, then, and not till then, ought the House to
consent to the examination of the subject. Before,
he entered on the general question, he would advert
to the constitution of these Courts, not meaning,
however, to follow the Noble Lord through those
regions of fancy into which he had wandered, when
he had described circumstances of ancient
date, in
no wise connected with the existing state of the
Courts themse;ves. The employment in which the
Noble Lord seemed to think that the Ecclesiastical
Courts were principally, if not wholly, engaged,
formed in truth hut a small portion of their occu-
pation.. They were, Courts to which the administra-
tion of no inconsiderable part of the civil law de-
volved. They had to decide on matrimonial and tes-
tamentary law ; on tithes, and on other civil rights.
He did not mean to say that if a new arrangement
were making, it might not be advisable that the de-
termination of such questions ought to be left to
Consistorial Courts, but he contended, that situated
as they were, it had not been shewn that there ex-
isted in those Courts any evil or abuse greater than
what was inseparable from all human establishments.
From the printed papers which the Noble Lord had
put into his hands, as the ground oe which his Mo-
tion proetseded, it appeared that in thirteen years
there were but seven complaints of the nature allud-
ed to. Did that exhibit a sufficient necessity for
Parliamentary enquiry ? The Noble Lord represent-
ed the evils of which he complained as arising from a
wish for the emoluments of office. It was not
so. Beery man went into those Courts as he
went into any other Civil Courts. Much had
been said of the hardships suffered by those
who were cited but for small sums. The
smaller the
.sum, if justly due, the greater was
the error in not paying it. With respect to the
Church Rates, persons were as much bound to pay
them as they were bound to pay Poor Rates. If
they refused, what could the Courts do but en-
force their authority ? If those persons, therefore,
to the injustice, in the first instance, of non-pay-
ment, added the injustice of defending their con-
duct, who was to blame for the consequences, the
party who drove, or the party who was driven to
litigation ? The Noble Lord complained that the
Petitioner, in whose case the present discussion origi-
nated, having been a minor, had been illegally treat-
ed. But this was not true ; for defamation, of which
she had been guilty, was a mixed case, and was that
for which a minor was answerable, and liable to
punishment. There was nothing wrong, therefore,
in the case, .. as far as minority was concerned.--
He would state to the House what was the ordinary
mode of proceeding in such cases. The party ac-
cused was' cited—appeared--performed penance,
and paid the costs. But the penance was not that
of which
lawil:rta:ll444l'was.ytheitetasidracce:ettichme:u:trYherefmsess critorandin g in a sheet,Tdricetinhemarnescs!os.blic:trusAitsedhlleigdto:rititottiWastheidea,saureesd:
ire, sod to the presence of the Illniitee end, the
110s11"sailli;ft 141salfeld"PeleVdtid net appear to tits citation,
s

or if, appearing, made a dishonest defence, throw-
ing every possible obstacle in the way of the Court,
all the evil that followed was to be ascribed not to the
Court, but the originators of the mischief. It might
he said, however, that in some cases of defamation,
the parties defamed deserved to be so. Would that
justify the defamer? It would not by any law. It
would not by the Ecclesiastical law. If the person
defamed had committed any offence, that person was
amenable to the law ; but no one for any single act
ought to be exposed to private slander during the
1 whole of life. As to those parties who were stated
by the Noble Lord to have been so poor as to be un-
able to employ a Proctor, he would ask, did they ap-
ply to sue and to he sued in forma pauperis? Had
that been denied them ? If they did not do so they
I placed themselves in the situation of comrion liti-
gants. A great outcry had been raised against ex-
i pence, but the expence complained of was un-
i avoidable, from the process to which, in such
cases, the Ecclesiastic,all Courts were obliged to
Iresort. The expences, however, would be but
trifling, were it not for the obstinacy of the parties
accused. The House would remember that the ex-
peaces of all Courts were much augmented by the
duties on stamps, which the call of public necessity
obliged Government to impose. He hoped he had
I now said nearly enough to make it appear, that the
Noble Lord had not made out a case that called for
the enquiry he bad proposed; though enough of ma-
i lignant industry had been exerted (not by the Noble
Lord himself, he was certaih) to bring forward every
topic of abuse that could he brought forward against
those Courts, still no act of injustice had been proved.
That cases of hardship had been adduced, lie was
ready to admit ; but still, whatever the sufferings of
the party concerned might be, the law while in ex-
istence should be kept up, and no one be suffered to
hold himself above its summons. He hoped the
i House would see no reason for entering into an en-
quiry so troublesome and so iucouvenient to the par-
ties affected by it, as that which the Noble Lord
! had recommended. It might be proper Nit au al-
' teration sntuld be made in the law, but that was not
the question at present before the House. He thought
it might be well for the process of excommunication
to be done away, and some process substituted, that
would be less expensive, less oppressive, and less
unseemly [loud cheering], and he was certain that
it was in the power of Parliament to grant no boon
i that would be more gratefully received by those who
t practised in those Courts.
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY declared, that the ar-
i guments which he had just heard. from the Right
Hop. Gentleman, entitled as they were to all that
I weight which never failed to be attached to whatever
fell from him, had not satisfied him, that it was not
the duty of the House to go into the proposed en-
' quiry. It did not appear to him that this enquiry
t was of that extensive nature which it was considered
Ito be by the Right Hon.-Gentleman. The words of
the Motion, indeed were, that the proposed Com-
mittee should examine -into the state of the Ecclesias-
ticall Courts, but if it should be thereby understood
that the Committee was bound to investigate all the
late proceedings of each particular Court, the labour
\devolvedsisithem must be endless. But his own view
of tata ;wpm. , this, that it would be simply Weans-
bent on them to examine the cases already specified,
; and to obtain such general information as might jus-
tify them in coming to a general conclusion as to the
nature, constitution, and administration of the Courts
in question. All that had been urged by the Right
Hon. Gentleman in opposition to the motion was re-
ducible to this, that the administrators of these Courts
of Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction ought not to be ren-
dered culprits, or brought to the bar of public en-
quiry. But the motion of the Noble Lord imputed
misconduct to no one, it merely stated that a case of
extreme suffering, as every person in the House must
acknowledge it to be, had appeared, and the question
was, whether this hardship sprung from the lave, or
from the mode in which it wasadministered.—[ Hear,
hear.]—His own belief certainly was, that the evil
arose from the defects of the law, and this opinion he
felt the more strongly, because he was countenanced
by an authority so high as the Right Hon. Gent.
who had spoken before him. That Right Hon.
Gent. in the conclusion of his speech had distinctly
expressed himself in favour of en alteration of the
existing law. The House had heard in what deci-
sive language the present state of that law had been
condemned, and he trusted it would be an additional
inducement with the House to assent to the motion,
that the Committee would enjoy the powerftil assist-
ance of the Right Honourable Qentleman in carry-
ing the requisite improvements into effect. There
would be then no hazard of any cry of innovation,
because the 'Right Hon. Gent. was too well known
to entertain a sufficient respect for ancient usages,
I and teo warmly to admire established institutions. to
be in any danger of meeting that resistance and ditfi-
,' culty, which any attempt at reformation proceeding
from himself would probably encounter.—[Hear,
hear.]—The itt. Ilon.Gent. was sure of support, and
had no obstacles to impede his progress. He hoped
the House would not forego the opportunity now
presented. This subject had long worn a suspicious
aspect. He believed he was correct in stating, that
no alteration or legislative provision whatever had
been enacted with respect to the Spiritual Courts,
since the period of the Reformation. What then I
was this sentence of excommunication ? It disquali-
fied
the party from taking the communion, it de-'
prived him of the rights of Christianity, and incapa-
citated
him either to give evidence, or commence a ,
suit in any Court of Justice. The wretched woman i
whose cue had been detailed, although not yet an
adult, had been confined in jail two years among
malefactors, and labobring under all her other mis-
fortunes, was rendered incapable, in the case of
violence offered to her person, from prosecuting the
violator.—[Hear, hear!]—lied a murder been com-
mitted in her eight her evidence must have been re-
jected, and the crime have thus remained unpunish-
ed. In the earlier periods of our history, this pu-
nishment had been reserved for heinous sins, it
was now applied to the son-paymeot of cods.—'
Bigbo l*son, in his Codex, had complained of
'this " and James_ the First had de..
aryl the then Archbishop of Quitorbory V)
ailinifiiv• ParliaMent *lie grit = ant del
lb th
' oglit these ea
*Geld _ reverted fbt tt'etallinke. Irellattblirites. 1
Chancellorl•litiovieY t.~lit' Xt. JeadiSie &Vat

• 10,1111111.