The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-05-01 00:00:00

" It did just nothinr 311 the day."

Lord FOLKSTONE said th it perhaps saute apology
was expected fioni bini fur addressing the House on that
question, bavitg on a former oecasio
n his obser-
vations on it. iie knew not whether an apology was ne•
ressary, because it enabled the Right Hon. Gentleman
to indulge in that fondneas fia• quizzing and joke which
so much characterized him, but if necesarv, he was
quite willing to make any apology to the II !use. Ile
could not but be roused into an angry feeling, and ex-
press his indignation at the conduct Obis Maje ;ty's Mi.
masters (Hear, hear.) in the late negociations. That he
was dissatisfied with those negociations, and that he
did express his disapprobation in warm terms, he
was free to confess ; and if he did not express his feel-
ings in very measured language, he hoped the House was
not so degraded as to cewure him for that. In twenty-
four hours after that, time Right lion. Gentleman himself
showed that he could feel indignation and anger at what
could fall from an lion. Member within the walls of
that Home. But there was this distinction: his (Lord
Folltstone's) in lii•enation kindled fur the character of
his country—the. Right lion. Gentleman kindled for his
own—(hear, hear). lie sat on that bench three emcees-
, sive evenings, expecting that the Right lion. Gentleman
would fulfil the promise he had given (hear, hear) on the
former night, when he told the Hon. Members being then
present, who did not hear hint (Lord Fulkstone) that he
had p,t a restraint on himself. He then used his sar-
casms and jokes instead of argument, and said that he,
(Lord Folkstone) had aim advantage of him in going to
the subject for which the Right Hon. Gentleman could
not be prep tred, as he had no notice. 'There was no-
thing unfair in that, because the Right Hon. Gentleman
was as much prepared as he was. The Right lion. lieu-
Reiman had been prepared before, and had introduced
the papers relative to the negociations to the House with
a speech on which the House could not then observe.—
Yet it was astonishing that time Right lion. Gentleman.'
could, on this and the former night, curb his zeal, which
he was not ab!c to do on the former occasion. lie asked
if the (louse was not, for those three nights, prepared
to hear the (tight Hun. Gentleman? He heard a ru-
mour that time Right lion. Gentleman meant not to ad-
dress the house on this subject until his Honourable
and Learned Prieoil (Mr. Brougham) had spoken. lie
should hope, for the credit of his Majesty's Ministers,
that time rumour was not true, and that it would meet
something like an official contradiction. He should be
glad also to know from the Right lion. Secretary for
Foreign Affairs, what actually was to he the policy of the
country; for since the duruments bail been laid on time
table, the Right lion. Gentleman had abstained from
giving any rapine ration to the House. An observation,
which lie bad made on a former occasion, seemed to have
raised an angry feeling against him. He had spoken of
a Right Hon. Gentleman truckling to power, and was
answered that he would never truckle to him. Wits-, if
there was any lion. Member in that (louse who was ca-
pable of truckling to any person or to any—.(Cries of
order, order.)
Mr. MAR ['IN, (of Galway) rose to call the Noble
Lord to order, as it was quite irregular to occupy the
time of the House for half an hour, as WAS then done, by
allusions to a former d.rb rte.—(hear, hear.)
Lord FOLK.,ITONE resnmetl.—He believed that the
Hon. Member was perfectly right in the strict letter of or-
der, but he believed that the strict point of order had been
frequently departed from in former times, and was then.
if ever jesiil able, when time subject of debate was so mixed
up w ith the former. Llowever, as the order of the House
was enforced in that instance, he hoped it would be iu all
otneN, and he would abstain from any further allusion. and
comply with the Hon. Gentleman's wish. Ile (Lord Folk-
me) had stated before, and lie then would do so, that the
perusal of the documents excited in him feelings of saame
and indignation, and he would further say that lie felt con-
tempt for those *lw subscribed to documents which created
sentiments of shame and indignation. tits attention had
beau given to the dentate and to time various remarks upon
the papers, and the acme feelings which their first perusal
raised had only been confirmed by all he heard or saw. Amid
he confessed that lie could not participate in time expression
of gratilicetion Which had been observed even at '. a side of
the House,—particularly in the speech of the Hon. linronet
for Westminster, that the language used by his Majesty's
Governinent never sanaiioned the aggression of France. For
We own part it appeared rather mean and unworthy of the

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character of a British House of Commons, that its feelings
should be expressed in worts alone, and that there was
no record in the documents of the strong' and determined
reprobation of the country. Whet better was the meta
cap e„sian of the sentiment, lii in a rex ct prcterea
when no trace was to lie foamd of it either in the papei a
on the table or in the Address then under cunsideratioe.
—(hear.) He would not again enter into an examination
of the papers, left there was one point on which he begged
leave to observe, and it hiels was alluded to freqnrutiv in
the debate, hut without its proper character being Ostia
to it. Ile meant the nwolor intim which the Duke of
Wellington put into the hands of Lord Fitzroy Somerset
on going into Spain. That document had been variously
spokati of es worthy of the connecion subsisting between
the Duke of Wellington and Spain. It appeared to him
to be totally the reverse, and well worthy of the character
given it by an Honourable Member helose, and draervime
°leveey epithet of reprehension. He was far from in -
;ruing unworthy motives to the Noble Duke. But the at -
vice giSell in that document was, us it appeared to him, no-
thing less than be•ra3-ing• the Government of Spain tutu the
hands of Ferdinand.—(dear, lien.). Thu pardes to whom
that representation was made were bound by solemn oaths
t make no alt?ration iu tte Constitution. It was therefore
extraordinary conduct to call upon those who were thusei:-
ctonstenced, to violate weir most soleme obligations. T.
him this appeared to be as attempt to thorny the Govern-
ment of Spain to the King. Throughout these negociations
the interests of England au I the Allies of England were wee-
ver mentioned, and this country acted in every instance as if
she were quite an indifferent spectator. It was by no means
his ohject to advise that this ()wintry should rush into war.—
lie complained of the course taken in the late negoclations,
because it appeared to Itint to be more likels ultimately to
engage this country in a new contest, than n firmer anti
more dignified course of proceeding would have been. Ito
thought these negocietions were likely in future times to
subject the country to great difficulties, if they did not now
lead to war. He however did nut know I:14t this country
could ever go to war again tilt something had been done to re-
lieve thecountry from that burthen under %Clic t it now groan-
ed. Ile entertaiued the most mei ine:kuly forebodings from tile
humiliation to which he soy the country subjected. Ile
had been accused of having more than any other Mem-
ber been the cause of the accumulation of that debt,
which he now contended pressed down the nation. This
he denied. Ile denied that lie had done any thing that
ought to bring on him such an accusation. He, es ho
had already stated. had the most eloo ny forebodings.
When the Right lion. Gentleman first c one into °filer,
be had hoped for better things. Ile hid hoped to find
him more alive kr the hon stir of the conatry. Fro:u
talents, assiduity, and intelligence, which had lifed that
Itight Hon. Gentleman alutoe to the highest object to
%Lich his ata'-ition could aspire, he Tsai hoped fur a very
iliiireent result battik, the late neeoeiations were pendirv.
Ile would hope better things yet; but if the Right Hon.
Gentleman wished to he It ',tiled (bent to posterity as ono
of the worthies who had contributed t I advance the clo-
ry of Great Britain, he innst a !oat a conrse very dl.fe,s-
ent from that which he had lately poi sued ; or, instead
of being so described, he would only he lot mu to fa
ture generations, as the wan in whose hula the country
had slink to degradation, misery, and shame.
questiou was loudly called for at toe close of this
perch.)
Mr. J. LITTLETON supported the course of the ne,
goriations pursued by his alajesty's Ministers, and aa
witted at the same time his disapprobation of the princi.
pies of the Holy
Mr. Canning was loudly called for—a few voices call-t 1
for Mr. Brotignsm. Mr. Ginning and another Hon.
Alember, whose name we did not learn, rose at the same
time; the latter gave way.
Mr. CANNING rase, and said that lie was extremely
sorry to elan:as Oa Haase, but considering the lengto
of time which the debate had occupied, and the late
hour to which it Was protracted on that night, he feared
that his own strength would be exhausted, as well as
the attention of the House, if he any longer delayed to
explain his own particular duty, and the course which
his Majesty's Government, in that part of it where it was
his duty to preside, had pursued in the late negociations.
If gratitude was the proper designation for that senti-
ment which was due to the unconscious and unintended
bustower of a benefit, he felt it in no slight degree to the
Honourable Gentleman who hail brought forward the
present question. Though lie was willing to receive the
general opinion of the House, and thought certain that
lie was not mistaken in the general sense of the country
on the question, yet tinder the peculiar circumstances of
the case, and though be laid the papers on the table, it
was not his intention, nor was it the custom of
vernment, to call for any proceedings up in theta.
He was grateful, therefore, to the Honourable Gen-
tleman (Me. Macdonald) who he hoped would, how-
ever unconscious he might be of intending such a result,.
find that his motion would have the effect of only
adding to the iatisfaciion of the country the renewed
approbation of the Horse. It cannot be said the Go-
vernment had trifled with the peace of the country, or
rashly provoked a war; vet every Hon. Member who had
spoken, except two lien letnen, whom he mentioned is itta
honour, had coinmeneed their speeches by declaring that
the question was not a question of peace or war. Now
that was a singular line to take, as all the issues of these
negociations —as the issue of all negotiations most be—
a decision for peace or for war. These avowals came
front a quarter from whence they had hitherto received
intimation of a warlike tune. Cries have been raised for
war, and caps flung up for contest ; hut when they came
to the consideration of the actual necessity and mama.
stances of the case, the cries were imacknowledged,•apd
the caps were left unclaitned.—(Hear, and a laugh.) It
was a question of peace or war, that his Majesty's Go-
vernment had taken up the subject; and as the interests
of the country were alone affected, lie begged that Mi-
nisters might be judged in the late negociations by re-
ference to the war which they have steel led, and the peace
they have secured.—(Cheers.) Whether the lieu:a
would or would not discuss tile question as one of pears
or war, his Majesty's Government did not stir one st-p
until they deliberately investigated the advantages atirl
disadvantages of both. Having once male np their minds
' fur peace, they directed all their atteutioii to preserve thtt
peace, if possible, to all the world—peace, if possible, to
the States of Europe—peace at all events to this country,
consistent with its safety and honour.—(Cheers.) Two
questions here naturally presented themselves—hret, was
Government right in that object, and next, were the mea-
sures it pursued thereon best suited to attain it. He post-
poned for the present the consideration of the first point,
and would proceed to discuss only the propriety of the ne-
gociatiuns nits reference to that object. The papers tri
the table miist be gone into, therefore, only to inquire i'
they were directed to that point. The documents would
show bow far the negociationa were directed to the
preservation of peace to the li-oil !, and the tuaintenauca
of peace between France and Spain. Them were three
divisions into which the documents should be classed;
in the first should be included those relative to Verona—
the next those to France, and the third to Spain. I u this
place it might be observe I, that one fallacy pervaded all
the statements which he heard in disapprobation of the
negociation. The papers relafave to tine period were ap-
plied most unfairly to another. An *Hon. Baronet Int
applied to them an observativa which had been repeated
elsewhere, and the selection of the passage Was the only
obfutthief
o statement.neitiat
jluldegel: lb
enva„tro...:liir
ecuofnpai uninteresting
thee
sNtlonb‘grloeprpda :sit; p r tat r —qua tligma tottiraie promraix•
rue first intilwatiou of the intentions of trance was met
by a declaration '" that to any such intentions 'hit Mr'
jesty will nut he a party." If it be atteisipted to
that declaration apply to the wh.;le of the negociat,eni.
or to the more advitiwel state of Ilieroceedings,na,hitse.

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