The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-06-09 00:00:00

of to Ireland as she now happily was, formieg
integral part of the Empire. On awe grounds,
therefore, he conceived that the measure of 1793 eus
one which could not, by any possibility, rest in its pie_
sent situation. It had a necessary tendency to force
itself upon the attention of the Legislature, and it
must infallibly produce dissension and di!conteet,
until Parliament consented to go lino a Committee
and enquired into all the subjects connected with that
vast and important quettien of Catholic Concession,
not shortly and unsatkfactcnily, by sweeping reso-
lutions, but gravely and solemnly, as became the
infinite importance of the measure. The longer that
enquiry was retarded, the more arduous, the more
doubtful, and the more difficult it weuld become.--
The question of securities, upon which somethinf
had been said, would more properly come under dis-
cussion in that Committee, and theretore he would
not anticipate it now, lie, for one, would carry
his mind into that Committee unprejudiced by any
thing that passed, aud would endeavour to view the
matter-us, in his opinion, it must he viewed, not
through the medium of any fixed or general princi-
ples, but in reference to the varying dispositions and
tempers of the peop!e of England and Ireland. He
earnestly entreated their Lordships to lay .entirely
out of their minds all recollection of whatever bad
hems improperly said, or improperly done, by the
Catholics themselves or their advisers. Toe measure,
if successful, was to b!, adopted, not to gratify this
or that individual, or any particular class of people,
but to determine whether it couhl make more cos.
tented, more free, more happy, and therefore more
happy because more free, a great body of our fel.
low-citizens—[Hear, hear !] —they were to coosiA
der whether they could safely give that portion of
civil freedom • to the Catholics of Ireland, which
hitherto it had been thought they could rat ; whether
it was not the indispensable duty of the Legislature
not to rest upon general. principles, upon dates and
epochs, but to accompany the .progress of light, of
education, aud of civilization in that country, de.,
riving from them improved and increa,ed means of
diffusing happiness, and by extending happiness;
securing in return attachment and fidelity to the wel.
fare of the State.—[lieur, hear !]—Thuse .were the
grounds. upon which the measure was to be deli.
berated, and therefore, even though he were cow.
vinced that a few angry individuals spoke the sense
of the nation, and even. if he believed that four or
five millions of Catholics could be so unreasonable as
to reject a boon and a benefit from the hands of the
Legislature, because not offered in the' terms sad its,
the manner :hey wished, he should still hid their
Lordships do what was right, consul. the plain path
of their duty, and provide for the happiness of the
people.—[llear, hear !]--It was upon that view of
the subject, and upfrn those principles that he had
always supported* the measure ; and on the same
principle, and from the same view of what ought us
be done, he should now vote for the motion of his
Noble Friend.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL said that his opinion
upon this question was already known, and he as-
t sured their Lot tlships that that opinion had not un-
dergone any elcinae whatever ; but he did not think
it necessary on this occasion to enter into the merits
lof that questinn. ife opposed the motion before thu
House because he did not conceive that the House
could at present resolve into the proposed Committee
1 with any view to a satisfactory result; but he had
another ohjectiou to this mollou, namely, that this
was not II subject upon which any enquiry could Ise
deemed necessary. For this was not a question iti-
Ivo.lving any uncertainty' as to facts upon which in-
vestigation was required. The House was already
aware of all the advantages and all the income-
niences belonging to the present system; far that
!system had been too frequently discussed to allow
:any ignorance or dauht to remain upon that subject.
Whether, then, it was right or wrong to make tha
concession required.by the Catholics, the House was
quite ripe to determine without any farther enquiry.
That the concessions required would involve a con-
siderable alteration in the Constitution of the coun-
try, could out be disputed, and he deprecated the
idea of proposing that alteration—of sounding the
alarm which such a proposition must produce, with-
out any statement of the remedy meant to • be lip-
! plied. He agreed with the Noble Mover, tbat it
would not be advisable to excite any expectation
!which it was not intended to gratify. 11;ith regard
to what had passed in Ireland upon this subject, he
I could not pretend to be
.as accuratety informed aa
the liable Mom; for he was not a Member of that
IGovernment at the period referred to by. the Noblb
Lord. But their Lordships had the record of what
passed in another place upon the discussion of the
Union, and upon reference to that record it would
be seen, that according to the opinion of the
indiri-
dual who took a lead in that discussion, the Catholic
Question would be left open for the consideration of
Parliament, namely, that if the Union were adopted,
Parliament would find it safer to concede to the
wishes of the Catholics, if it should think that con.
cession expedient, or to resist such. concession if it
thought contrary. It would indeed be recollecred,that
that point was peculiarly laboured by the individual
alluded to (Mr. Pitt, as we understood). From the
discussion referred to then it could'not be inferred,
that any pledge or promise was held out to the Ca-
tholics by the proceedings of Parliament. But with-
out adverting further to those proceedings, he felt it
his duty to withstand the present motion, because he
was unwilling to hold out any expectation to the Ca-
tholic Body which was likely to be disappointed;
and he was the more disposed to resist this motion,
from the indefinite form in which it was presented to
•the House. He shou'd, therefore, prefer the pro•
position of some specific measure as in the year 1793,
in order that the question misfit be brought before
the House in a distinct intelli,;ible shape. Oa this
ground, then, he stioulti frankly say, that if he were
even friendly to the Catholic cause, he should object
to the course of proceeding proposed by the Noble
Mover ; for he should desire to have at voce laid be-
fore their Lordships a pri'cie statement of the nature
and extent of the eta alley il to exist, as well as of
the nature and extent of the remedy, which it was
proposed to substitute. Althouglk he had stated thus
much, the Noble Lord slid, that it was not his in-
tention at present to enter at large into the !relit°
of this great question, but s'iould reserve his eb•
servations for a future and more convenient opr,r-
(unity. He was, however, ou this occv.i•),