The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-05-26 00:00:00

either I

71,411) ORprcAlliOnpz ...40414 re 14.14
111 that assertion @ten isk MitOes bistorlarialiini
contleriiinesstald tothencelet tfy owls *nbserifi.l
ton in more recent periods:. Tfie.Hott: Ciniferidi
here read, some eztraets 'fropi" Morilifen, 'Of 'a:
cc
rortr4esty. Ceciltiripo:ekn'beot tee.
mita" caf 'b 'd VerulinPand'Se-
e
Queen vieebbtii,
-wfierein the forMbr itre4V7 lamentable ite-
scripticin of the then state tsit Ireland, .under the
administration . of the LetiflliPity' Mountjoy,
where the unhappy natirea'‘rein forced 10 subsist•
upon the itoktiettlei collected lit this Bettis-.;-where
' old woolen Were`, actually forced• by. the dreadful
• •• • • •
necessities of unger to be caninbals, 'mid were
then hanged for the offence. When these 'facts
were communicated to the Queen, her answer ,to
her Minister was; " It is you have committed
these things.; but I fear that a similar charge at.
tactics to me, as Varro stated to, Tiberius, that I
committed the flock not to shePherds but to
wolies." Such was the desetiption'given by 13ri...1
tish authoritiei of the system under Which Ireland
growled in their time. Yet barbarous and atria.
cious as was that system, he had, in his own
times, in this enlightened sera of the 'world, in
this humane reign, seen are barbarous, as atro.
-cious; as oppressive, and shiest as incredi-
ble acts, • practised by and under the ccienl.
Lance of the Irish Government. There were
before hint Honeurable Members who could
not deny his assertions. He did not utter them
lightly, nor upon the authority of any second
person. lie yoke from the testimony of his pwn
senses. In defiance of every principle of justice,
in violation of every enactment framed for the
protection of the subjecti" liberty, he had himself
seen honest, industrious, and innocent men, drag.
ged froni their homes to the most dismal dungeons ;
' hurried from shelled without trial, nay, without
charge, either to a triangle or it gallows, to be.
tortured or half-hanged, as adjudged, punishmeut
for any etfence, real or suppysed. No such thing,,
but to extr,tet, by most' exaggerated torture,_
either a confessiou of his guilt, •o'r an itidiserinti-
nate impeactimeet of thwie Whom the Government
were pleased to consider obnezious. But even if
the sufferers were guilty, such a system •was in
direct violation of -the positive 'clause in the
Great Chartbr, which provided 'that iti punish.
(tient, no cruel or unusual tortures sheuld.l
lieinfliceed. Ler lam not be told that lie was
driwing an exaggerated statetnent, incredible
as it ' a Plies r ell 7, the atrocities which
it delieeateil,le confer state place add lime. They
were'daily reveattidivete tastie-yerd of Dublin,
in tlieltriyal *tlitnee, itibt?jorSantly_l4i Preset,
an& in lieresford''S'ltielftig House. They took
place , during the Administration of .that Worst
Lord LiOtteitant (among thi many With' *hicit his
miltaipiteountry were afflicted), that ever was
Sent to 'lreland—namely, Lord Camden, -now 'a'
'Confidential Midister and secret adviser of the
Crown. tint it were somewhat tolerable even if
such barbarities • were confined 'to the unhappy •
pctsdns first niade the victims of such cruelty. Li
that period of unbounded outrage upon every
principle of justice, humanity, end of law, even
the cries of rho widowed mother and orphan
child became incentives to the lust of a bro.
tai . soldiery ; and many were the. instances
*here the wive. and daughters, in the very
view of their agonized parents, were shamefully
and barbarously violated by, he was sorry to
say it, English Fencibles and German Mercena-
" ries. But it would be said, that such deplorahte
consequences followed from the Conduct and the
violence of the Irish rople, and.'were not to be
attributed to the misrule of the Government.—
. What was the answer ? It' was this: that e ith
change ofaystem, teen for a short season, peace
..returned., Lord Cornwallis sueeeeded -Lord Cam.
den ; coiEsliatlon 'took the 1/13C13 or coercion,
and,. /rebut& became Icemen' and composedo,--
[Heat! hear t] Was • tai it House, then, • pre.
pared to say, in life preaeift elate of the world,',''
that it waaitetermined.to,persevere jet a system of
policy towards Ireland; from which 'such calemi:
Iles bevaalecady.fierwn ? Was it ready to abide by,.
the course stemmed by a set of men who,•after *hat
had already taker', place, in tonsequence of theta;
misconduct,. usgh4 would not be trusted
by an :booed; House- • of (*unbolts: It weal
the height of 'madness ;longer to :tolerate Ad
doctrine' of proscription against a people whom
you have thus treated-,-e people who, at this mo:
ment, compose .one half of your army and navy
—a peOide *be, wheu calteerto fight the 'batiks
of the Empire, even evilest: as • enemy psis.
fessing their own religion, have ever gallantly
performed their duty. [l4isr! hear !] What
did he, as the Representative-of. Ireland,• ask
from that House ? What that Ilmiee .was bound
by every principle of justice, . by the faith .rof
solemn Treaty bound, to grant to Ireland--
bound to' it by the Treaty 44, Limerick, which,
on the part of Ireland, 'was settled aodeoincluded
by the Irish Chieftnins at the head of an Irish Ca-
tholic army, 'with sec Etignili Generals arid the
Lore,. Justices on the part of Englawdk a compact
signed, seated, and ratified by King William
[Hear! hear !] in which it was provided (fur.;
f rum' the usual ignorance of afar Haase [A laugAl
upon Irish 'subjects, it was necessary to state the.
facts), that tbeCatholies of Ireland should be rein.
stated in•ill the advantages which' the loyalty. of
their ancestors entitled and obtained for them in
the reign of Charles the tit,. and which were now
claimed by their descendants Upon the same wide.
viable grounds. Let those whir still were deter.
mined to felting the petitions of. that people, be.
fore they announce this important decision, pause
epee' the capacities of that country, should your
perverseness 'drive her to a ~indication of her
wrongs. What did the evident@ produced before
•the Select Committee,' in the year 1799, commu-
nicate ? Was it not undeniable, that. Ireland
,Isad organised fur resistance 300,000 men.—
Alai confident in her own Means to - effect
Inir OW object, she refined to derive an
army 'of forty thousand men .offered by the
Government of France. If -tan refusal to

_ Independent
_ under _ ,of :Foots ?In
alternative, upon what tenure wonid the greatness
and'prosperity of BrPlait depest&' WttiP figneh
ships in the ports of Hoßaildi g iia, nad Ireland,
manned with Dutch aad,Frsmcls bus.
thcrs of those very men r -re ceedribtikod,p)
ye


prerionsty
grata; ;hey regain
*ion, •
thentanlethi.thddlii be so slow iir cOnceling ; nio-
•tuill concession Would be the best bond of mittoAl
-conciliation, 'and he- cordially agreed with his
Bight Honourable Friend and colleague, to
thinking it wonid bu a' happy day, fur Ireland.

,WY

.k.

.._o
4 havewoo __ _ ,
the support of your naval glory TO laughfress A; • when so great and desirable - -
object Calf • • be
an
Ministerial benches.] The Honourable Gentle. fully accomplished. This great end can only he
men may laugh, but 'there was• little subject for brought about by mutual concessidn; and if any
inch a feeling, when they recollected that %stinted: of us believe, without such security, the Consti.
ing army, with mealtime conveyance in the porb of tution would be in danger, can any liberal Catho.
Vigo, Ferrol and Coruna*, was within da hours sail lie blame as for requiring that security in thelrst
of an Island where the whole population were dis. instance ? Let the Catholics give the security
'satisfied and proscribed. Let the House not de. their warmest advocates tegnire of them, and
ceive itself. Let ittonsider, whether Ireland had esery liberal Irish Protestant will be rejoiced at
not every thing to gain, and nothing to lose by being enabled 'to admit his countrymen of every
the change. To be sure it would get rid of 'some religions persuasion to the full benefits of the Con.
.
things. It would get-rid' of aoode of penal and stitution ; all be desires of the Catholic, is, that he
galling restrictions—of an oppressive tythe system will enable him to,give him what he looks for ; this •
1.--of 16 millions of debt—of your improvident is what he requires, and all he requires. He knows
exactions and grinding taxes—of her proportion the value, the necessity of conciliation; but tb
to your sinecures and pensions. She could' be sincere, Itmustbe reciprocal. He should for the
bring into the field an army equal to cope with' above reasons vote against going into a Committee,
any this country could furnish—to the full which could not be attended with any good, but
;es well cootmand4 and as well disciplined. let that spirit of conciliation, which• is evidently
Before the communication would reach your gaining ground in the. House and the country,
metropolis, by a general rising of her people work a little .more, and such a confidence had he
she would be in possession of every arsenal snide- in the good sense of that portion of his country.
pat, and resources she could find In ..one million men, that he bed no doubt of their seeing their
and and a half of absent property: Ho was not own interest in due time, and coming forward to ,
to be told, that what he had then stated, was, the give us that security which alone could...justify
evidenee only 'of notorious traitors.. Whatever this. House in complying with the prayer of their i
their conduct had been, there was no man ever , Petition, and which their oldest friends think this,. .
doubted their knowledge of din country ; and it should not geese: . .
was to bo recollected that such authority had in Lord- DIJILSLEit was instructed on the parte •
that House been quoted by the King's Ministers, a large portion of the Protestant Freeholders of
in oppOsition to Catholic Claims. Every Com. the extensive and populous county which. re. ,
sanding motive of. human. -reason and policy presented,. to .state, that they wished their.tatho."
called upon that House to reaerse its system to. lie fellow.subjects.to share' in common with them
wards Ireland. In brig-ging them in his very hem.. the same rights, 'privileges, and immunities.
ble manner before it, lie- felt he had done his . Mr. Secretary RYDER contended strongly
, duty as a devoted serartititto that country to whiCh against the right now claimed by the Roman. Cna
he had the honour te belong, and as one Most tholics, denying, as they' did, the right of veto,
anxious to connect the two mutual bonds of which they had formerly in profession wily, bet
equal rights and equal laws.—Conspious of his never in reality, authorised their supporters. in
own c-omperative inferiority, he was, on all former this and the other House of Parliament to concede
.-
occasions, willing to yield the discussion of Ire. for them.. .
land's interests to the' .Right' Thintiorablis Mum. , Mr.PONSDNBY asserted,' that
hers for Dublin and Taviseock (Me Grattria•and the Irish Catholics in ParliametK
Mr..Ponsonby. Bet .tboogir for these'two great from their Delegate in this country,
diameters he entertaioett the
,highest respects he , accession to the veto. This he Oar
was bound in troth as juitice to say, that his ring to a card upon which Dr. Miir a
country had, In' e'greet degree; 'changed its opl.
.of Lord Fingal, marked the terms /2
-Mon. There was'passed In Shit Muse, some Set. .tind•stili more from a letter writte, or
sions ago, a certain Actlthe 4ustorrection Actli the, day after that interview, in the
.which was a direct violation of the liberties of the Doctor stated his desire tocomrom dine
Irish people, and- which hal received some support tiuctly the propplition of the CI I ateis..
ou the assumption that there Was a French' party In order that there should bents, 'ding,
iii Ireland. Ile would boldly avow that neither.at this „proposition was, that the k relates
that time, nor now; did or . does there exist a were willing to give a direct nege wen Io
French' pony there. ' His Right Honourable ,his Majesty's Government—upon th Jititalent
Fricnd (Mr. Grattan) he was persuaded, was of the prelacy in future. The width. gof thb,
now equally of that opinion ; bather° did exist in however, he now contended, was et ,end oat tO
Ireland an iaterist, every (lmy and hour gaining them as a taunt. Would the RI: lonourable
additional strength, and that was an Irish in. Gentle Man opposite CMG Ryder; send to sax,
tercet. :such an interest as was strengthening it. that if this were conceded, he wk support the
self in England. against every species of illegal Catholic Ca*? He begged to ask, chat pretence
and unconstitutional power. The people of Ire- the Right Hon. Gent. had to demand concessions
'land only seek a participation of civil freedom. from the Catholics and yet to give them none ?
!They desire the British Constitution ; denied its Was every concession to be demanded' from Bleck
t.prutection they will not implicitly bow to the op. and none to be made in return ? Veto or no Vet(
pressive mandates of King, Lords, or Coin. wail not the question, but whether, in tech .cii
mons. With respect to the Veto; he would not cumstances, the coincessionashould not be mutual
, pretend to say, although he gave it muph titbit. Were the Irish to understand thit the terms
tion, that he so understood it' in all its' conic. reconciliation held out to their were of no mea
goences as - positively to decide "opt b • it.— ing? That 'they were words proceeding from I
But whatever was his own opinioui he would lips, but net meant to convey the moaning of '
never set it up in opposition to the convic. , heart? He declared his conviction, that there ,
!ion of four millions of people upon a point no danger to be apprehended from Ireland, bet tl
connected with their' own faith and religious if properly treated, she would prove our Wet
discipline. He must hoWever state, that ihesCa. and security, All that was now fished wet,
tholios of the great county of Tipperary, which the House. should go
,into a Committee. '1
,h'e had the honour to represent, had io certain Re. were no great concessions asked; Jet only
oplutions passed in Marcklast, agreed to transfer CoMmitteu be gone into. Begin oiiii-by I
the appointment of Bishops from the Pope to a 'to the Petitioners small conceisioni,', 'With
domestic Nomination. For himself, he would say, concessions they would at first 'be ' sigafind
that* whatever decision 'Bee tathilics- of- Ireland when Geetlemen, saw that they asked
catnetoi itt that be would, acquiesce,.' determined than 'seas centipede, then let them proceed to .
tp give their areat.canse his; unqualified support, ,give them the felextent of their demand. Whit
Veto or no Veto. Ilk mbject was to place Ire. was the state iurope at this moment? Was .
land under the same laws, nod with the same rights it not reduced under the dominion of one man,
thit Great Britain enjoyed. ,4le, felt the jetties the greatest, probably, whom the world had ever
and the,merit of the Course he eite omeninded, eon. produced ;—ono who, was sent, as it were; by
viliced that union ••an& ColitiliatiOSArliold make Providence, to accomplish things which could
Brit parte( the euipireeetoalyintincille but is. hardly have been supposed practicable. Ho
vulnejable. • ' - , . , : was a man - not only of great talent!, brit
Lord Viscount JOCELYN' was aware of the probably oe greater talents' than any other
, • •
difficulty of. forming a correct °Anion on thesult.: man of recent times, or of antiquity, who had
jest ;• but, at the same •time, he was obliged to ever existed. His talents were equally gigantic
diger with thia•Right.lloisoittiable Meier: Ile with his ambition ; and the people whom ho
thought that cOviciliation_iss negessarmbut there -commanded were equally endowed with talent,
was no bar provided in the
.preematentsfp.of things .-and 'also with ambition,. as himself. It was .
to secure the Catholics 'pins; Oti...poswer of in the power- of Britain not only to do away
'Was
amt thereforti. cOncessiest
,ie their part any
,antipathy which • their conduct towards the
'Was desirable. Mikis the King lied the Veto; or Irish might have created, but even to convert:it .
power of appointing mitts* Bishops .as to him into the most inviolable friend. The Irish webs
might scent
,proper, there: was, hi his opinion, an willing to prove themselves the rallying point of
)#n
oirnuuntable °Wick to comply with their de. the Empire against. the French Governor, who •
•
Maids. Supposing lie measure was adopted, still i wished to make himself thp uncootrouled Sovereign
tile thought no, material benefit would. be produced ;ot the world. . Wes it then a suffieieni answer to t ,
'bi, it.' Tho disease* strOtild remain .--4 disease which I say, when thus called on, that because you (the-, • .
could not be eradicated, unfit the men of property i Catholics) would not advance some steps, which. • ',•
TO Ireland felt the natecee sefues, and set an exam. lin fact, • were of no import, they (the _British •
Ole to the No Qt. 04 country by liviag on ;..Parliament) would do nothing l' In his opiniotrie . :
'their eitates ''Weald to God, he obierved, that I became the bounden duty of the people pod Parlitio , .
some means could be devised to,compel.nbsentees meat of this country to say to their Irish; bras . . _'•; ..
to return ; *to (Aid that ruinous and-tilt:fictive thren, tee are ready to make the first advance.-Thoe-
emigration whiCk vs' the sole cause of all the nature of the people of was to feel instil in .. • ,
real grievaneen of iviiitili Ireland corn plained. the most acutedegree; and the only war to merit . .
Mr. SHAW .(Vrifilio) could not content him. them was by alfection,foree new Woold town . •
... • , .
.... .•
'Self with a silent'vote, as he was cotrenittly desirous them ; England had tried that mode for eentitrieer
. .
[of explaining the motives which influenced it on and was Ireland more secitre.te her_now.4itetwit
1 the present occasion. ' And first, he could assure any former period? The Union, above ilt floes : ' --, . --
was calculated to awaken this .fentling.-1 .
the lipase and the Country that thole Motives thief%• • ....
were not to be traceitarry principle of &nixie. If the people of Ireland felt, even after a WWWISGTS . . .
itty against so great 444 respectable a body as the of this kind; that they were to ,be kept In 0, ChM ' ' . , -,
Roman Catholics .o(.lreland f towards them he of subserviency and degradation, must, they: neit: . .
ne,er felt, not does he now feel, • any sentiment of naturally took for redrec? Would, they not Ora': • .
all the advantages be driven to the. most desperate measure* 1111 - lOW' •' : . 4
intolerance; he wishes
, them...
of the Constitution,: consistent with the safety complish it ? ''hey would satiii be red 'to'
of the Coustitatiop itselt, They profess to toy thick the Woe Oa eery Wont ofiro that lie 4
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.r, . ... _____ . ... _ _.......................... . ____. ,
—the nnaa mpg 14. .7 , 11; ;aria, ,-, • Dr;ai'-et--;etfito ikolad -11 3. T. .1, ,.. ".-f` 111, - .IfITY- coli. irdilliidil ;ho lielievoilik • Otts-ifits, i. • •
hundred pasta of thtn %, , nalbn, was not' at lamentable choice, .'l' l' 41) • ' eatlloNa, fel. 'end null regfetS they should hesitate 1., give
length to terroinee, viruirrecoined of the liberties; lied under.the dosaiotoodgjhuramoissear stake 'that security, which their ablest advuehrns en
even 'VIVI' 100114 1 wA11141:Itot ltfili survive, Continent, or of startelawy, separate independent .hath- Reuses think previously Receisar'y ; her...
,1
s Cierier an ORprelsioirp, WWI% repilat fortified island under the protection ,or .fisosige ? In either greb;•that while: they require eencessi:3n, twy

, •
*it ,fli. Wends, of
ent 'bad authority •
'try .to offer their •
e skewed by refcr.
ifilner, in preamicci
erms of the *do, . ‘1
ten by the DactOr
rt.:which letter the
annicatetiore dia. •
Catholic Prelates. • • •
misitnderstAndingl. • .
Catholic prelates
legatilie power to
nt the appointment
rithhalding of this,
as only held out to
Ri4ht Honourable ,
er) pretend to sat,
would' support tbo
ink, what pretence
!emend concegsions
give them none
landed. from then‘,
? Veto or no Veto
Thor, in fruch .cif. •
luld not be mutual?
I that the terms of
were of no mean.
weeding from the •
the moaning of tile .
ion, that there was
in Ireland, but timkto •
prove our strength
,w asked wal,
Committee. 'theft)
Sked:i ,lit. only. the
;in oujy by, giii4
Witb small
t be 'l4lll6id t aid
icy asked no mote • . .