The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-07-02 00:00:00

CkfilOLlC QUESTION._

The Order of the Day upon which their Lordships'
were summoned, being read,
Marquis WELLESLEY, in rising to submit to
their Lordships the Motion of which he had given
notice, stated, that he had that day to call the atten-•
' tion of their Lordships to a subject, which, thoagh it
had been repeatedly- agitated in Parliament, had
never yet been fully and fairly considered—which,
though at various times it had given rise to lengthened
discussions, had never yet been decided according to
those ordinary maxims of sound reason and State po-
licy, which usually regulated their Lordships' conduct
upon other questions important to the interests, the
welfare, andthe happiness of the Empire. It was
with regret he felt himself compelled to state, that
the great and vital subject had never hitherto been
considered and discussed with the same calmness and
dispassionate feeling, which was so necessary to the
agitation of a question involving the interests and
rights of so large a portion of the population of the
Empire; that Parliament had never yet approached
the question in that liberal and unbiassed spirit which
alone could ensure a sound and deliberate decision.
From the earliest period at which the attention of ,
their Lordships, and of the other branch of the I.e.
gislature, had been called to the situation of their
Roman Catholic fellow-subjects, by the respectful
Petitions of that great class of the body of the peo-
ple, their claims had been, in some instances, met ;
with jealousy ; in others with terror; in others with
vengeance; in many with contempt; and in several ;
with a combination of all those prejudices and pas-
sions, operating to exclude from the possession of ;
their legitimate rights a great mass of the population
of the Empire. This was the state in which the
question was then placed; and in bringing forward
the Resolutions with which he meant to conclude, he j
had to call upon their Lordships to distinguish be-
tween the temporary causes out of which the dist- !
bilities of the Roman Catholics had grown, and those
great maxims of State, which should be the founda-
tion of all enlightened legislation. It was impossible
not to attend to the distinction between the policy of i
a temporary expediency, and these great principles
upon which the Constitution of the British Monar-
chy was founded. It was true, he would admit, that
some partial alleviations of the political,,,incapacitiel
of the Roman Catholics had taken place ; but the
question he bad to subunit, and the .consideration

which should influence their Lordships on this occa-
hßoowmatinteyc caothuokilicmfoeslti.o
r Siontte was,their
1
effectually incorpo-
rate into the
great body of the State. They ought to reflect with
regret, that allthat had yet been done for them had
;been effected by chance,
or by snatches, and that
their cause had never heretofore been taken up on
I the principles of natural jtistiee and enlightened po-
licy. It hid been too malt the fashion to call the
state of the laws as they at present existed the son-
' •
stttuttonal system; but he must deny that they could
i be properly denominated a system—he must contend,
`that the Code, as it existed, did not deserve to be
! designated by the name of System—it was impossible
to describe, with either truth er justice, enactments
so contrary to reason and sound policy in such a
way. The effect of looking at the law, as it stood,
in the light of a sound and established system, was
one unvaried impulse against affording,any opportn-
-4 nity for the correction of a Code which so materially
affected the interests of so large a body of the people.
By these false views of the subject, the question
would be reduced to a state in which it never could
be considered; and the fact was, that it had never
yet been fairly and dispassionately considered—that
their Lordships had turned aside-from the thorough,
and radical, and rational investigation of it, as men
in embarrassed circumstances decline the examination
of their affairs, afraid to discover the nature and ex-
tent of the difficulties out of which their embarrass-
ments arise. They had not been admitted in any of
the former discussions to go into an enquiry into the
.details of the circumstances which involved and em-
barrassed this strange and anomalous question. The
propositicn, then, that he had that day to submit
to their Lordships Was, whether this was the season
in which it would be proper to consider and deter-
mine this important question, according to the esta-
blished and ordinary State maxims?—Whether this
was the season in which, from the various circumstances
attenting the agitation of the subject, it could be taken
up oc grounds distinct from the passions and feel-
i ings of jealousy and prejudice, which in various pe-
riods of our history obstructed its progress-:--whether
this was the season in which it might be considered !
exempt, particularly from the influence of those
igroandless alarms for the existing establishments in
1 Clinch and State, that had so often defeated the ,'
' exertions of even the most zealous fiends of reli- 1
gious and political freedom. He would ask their ,
Lordships, whether this was not the season when
' they were peculiarly called upon to set this great
question at rest, by a cool and dispassionate consi-
deration of it in all its bearings, and a just, and
• wise, and liberal decision—a season when they were
• imperiously bound to divest it of every influence of
vulgar passion and popular prejudice—when they
were placed in the very whirlwind of national agita-
tion, and the tremendous tempest of foreign war ?
[Hear, hear!] He trusted,' therefore, that their
Lordships would see and feel the necessity, under
such circumstances, of entering fully into the consi-
deration of this great national question—he was con-
fident that they would feel bound to adopt that
course, with a view to rescue the question out of
the hands of those who might take it up for improper
purposes, by every principle of justice, by every
principle of religion, above all, by every principle
of our reformed religion—that they would feel it to
be their duty and their interest to do so, as they va-
lued those great qualities of moral feeling and politi-
cal virtue, which have been the surest foundation of
i the pre-eminence of the British nation in arts, in
1 arms, In liberty, in law, and government.—[Hear!]
—When such was the question, and the view he
I took of it, he could scarcely bring himself to cha-
racterise the state of the laws against the Catholics
las a system. He knew too well what was due to
; their Lordships' former decisions, as well as to the
I many able and honest statesmen who differed with
' him on this question, to approach it in any form but
i that of regular deliberation, awl calm and temperate
discussion. He had, therefore, to call upon their
Lordships to consider this question in the same man-
ner, and to enter into the examination of its merits,
I with the same spirit and feeling, as they would if he
were to submit any proposition to them for revisivg
i any other great branch of 'he Constitution. And,
.
i when thus anxiously disposed to call the attention of
the House to this question, he could not refrain
from asking their Lordships, whether the system
i was so complete in the theory—in principles so
soundly framed—so evidently marked with the traces
of ancient wisdom—so clearly perfect in snits parts,
I that it could be maintained without a monstrous
anomaly ?—Whether it was, on the whole, so beau-
' tiful in theory—so accurate in proposliou and sym-
metry—so wise, politic, and admirable, that it ought ,
not to be made the subject of consideration? The
next point to which he desired to direct their Lord-
!
, ships' attention was, supposing the system perfect
in theory, whether there were not many parts oh-
; jectiouable as not consistentwith the perfection of the
l theory, and which, on thataccount, ought not to be
: continued as branches of a system intended to be
pure and blameless? With this impression, he wish-
ed
to ask their Lordships, what had been the effect
1 of the system—what had been its operation even
1 upon its own principles—what had been every part
of the effect it had produced upon the best interests
I of the empire— what had been its tendency to pro-
-1 mote the happiness of the people—what its tendency
1
to uphold the general liberty of the nation—what
I its tendency to secure and maintain even the Este-
' Wished Church—[Hear, hear !]—in fine, what had
been its tendency to accomplish the objects for
which it had been instituted ?—[clear, hear!]—
When their Lordships looked at the subjects under
all tilde various aspects, he would be anxious to
know, whether they could be of opinion that the '
question should be passed over, or whether) on the

contrary, the) would not desire to give it a liberal
and eteighteued consideration ? But then spin)
supposing the theory itself not perfect, and that this
was an evil which must be endured, he celled upon
• their Lordships to consider the case, in order to as-
certain whether it was an evil that %you'd +Whitt of
no palliation, thin held out no hope of corrceiont
'that affnrded no prospect of its being rern-ved-o
whether it had been resorted to its a choice of di*.
culties, and had been adopted as the least of two
evils? This was a point of view in •v..ich the
question presented itself to their Lords and
called for the fullest deliberation. Again he would
ask their Lordships, whether, consirierieg the cir-
. eumstances of the times, there was any thing if: the
mode of pressing the subject upon their notice, or
in the nature of the Resolntions with which he
should conclude what he had to say, so objection.
able, as to make their Lordships think it necessary,
on that ground alone, to reject his proposition, and
decline entering; into the consideration bf the quesa
rtion ? He was aware, that in stiting the subject in
, this way, he was departing from the usual mode of
• bringing important questions before their Lordships,
and he was the more averse from persisting In it,
because it must inspire their Lordships with an ap..
prehension, that he meant to detain them longer,
• than he trusted would be necessary for him to
; trespass upon their indulgence. His intention, he
, • could assure their, Lordships, was to proceed Itt
such a way, in pressing this case upon their notice,
• as would leave every individual it liberty to come
I to the discussion and decision of it with a deliberate
judgment, or in the progress of the debate to take
an opportunity to state his objections to the question
he had to submit. Now, with respect to the tirst
point to which he had stated his intentions to call
their Lordships' attention—the perfection of the
theory, lie did not mean to recur to the venerable
, stores of ancient records ; it was not his intention to
igo through the voluminous piles of historical autho-
I rity, in tracing the theory under all its various
changes and modifications to its remote origin ;
all he wished to ask of their Lordships miss, to cone
side'. it only in toe state in which it at present ex-
isted. In England, the Roman Catholics were
subjected to disqualiticatious ; and, stuttering under
disabilities, which did not atiect the same class of
Isubjects in any other part of the United Kingdom.
' The English Catholics, though they possessed the
qualified right of voting for Memuers, were dis,
qualified for sitting as Members of Parliameet.
'fhey were bereft of the capacity to hold any offices
•in the State. He was convinced that their Lord-
!
ships would not say that the conduct of the Cathos
lies of England had been such es to require a coati,
nuance of such disabilities ; on the contrary, he was
persuaded their Lordships would be ready to admit,
that their conduct had been at all times distill-
, guished for loyalty, regularity, love of order and
law, and every other characteristic that could be-
long to the most exemplary subjects of a State, and
entitled them to the wise and considerate pro;ec-
. tion of a good gevertiment. The first operation Of
the system, thergore, he, wished to press upon their
. Lordships' attention was, that as the law now stood
the Roman Catholics of England were not ad-
' witted to the same advatiteges which were en-
joyed by the Catholics of Ireland. In Ireland,
ICatholics were admissible, by law, to civil rights
and offices, to a certain extent. What, however,
I was their situation? The Act which admitted them
to these rights, allowed them capacity for all offices,
provided ttely took certain oaths; and yet, strange
to ray, the same Act disqualified them, the Cathoe
lies, e 'tontine, for all offices that could be sup-
posed likely to excite the ambition of ardent and
I honourable minds. The Act 'admitted them, cer-
tainly, to the Bar; but it stopped short the e, and
! peremptorily disqualified them for the Bench. This
limit to the bounds of a high and honest embition
must necessarily infuse into their minds a spirit of
discontent, he would not say dieaffectioa, because he
hoped that nothing could kindle such a spirit iu ,any
class of subjects—a spirit of discontent,,,howevee, it
would infuse, and that too, ari4.sg out the Act it+
self which granted the concessive.. Tise cotimssion
clearly peeved, that the Roman Catholics had a
capacity for Constitution:.( prtileges, and it waif
therefore, not to be supposed that a as
' recognised their capacity, should not inspire the
I breast of every English or Irish Catholic wit* an
ardent desire for the qualification. The nest point
' to which the ,concession applied, was with respeet
to the Army; the principle on this head was to give
encouragement to the Catholics to a certain es+
tent in the Army, and then to stop thei: further
progress ; and here, as eith respoc- to the Bar, it
was impossible that the impolitic disqualification
should not produce a spirit of discontent. When .
he considered the loyalty of the Catholics of Eng.
laud, he considered it strange that they should not
be admitted to theesatne privileges as the Roman Ca-
tholics of Ireland. Ho must further condemn the
gross impolicy of the system, which conceded to
those Catholics who put themselves and their cause
upon their mere strengths, and withholding tne same
just concessions from the Catholics of England. The
next point he should notice, was one which had been
-adverted to by a Noble and Learned Lord ou a
former occasion—he meant, the state of the Catho•
tics of Scotland. What he should say upon this
part of the subject, he should advance with less dire
Hence, because, if he should fall into error, he
would be subject to correction. He should apoeal
then to that Noble and Learned Lord, whether this
was not at present, the state of the law in Scotland
that since the Act of 1793, every scotel. Roman Ca.
tholic may fill any office, civil or milieu.), ? Let
'their Lordships then look •seriously at this distinc-
tion ; whilst the Roman Catholics.a.Scotland were

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