The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-06-01 00:00:00

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'HE sutEsmAk.

pear still that the Bank, who mitt its pay upon
their present issues not less than ldooool. a-yeatro
actually paid only 42,0001. causing as annual loss to
the public revenue of no less thin b 13,0001. This
calculation was made, too, ilthout any coresider t.
Lion of the Bank Post Bills in circulation, and the
amount of which he had had no weans of ascertain.
In. Now he wished to °hewn that he should look
with no jealousy to an advantage of this kind, if it

the public had pined considerably by the bargain in
made, during the present reign, with the Crown, by
which a fixed tist was given in exchange for property
that was now of considerably greater value. He'
should now shiiw, from the letter of Mr. Grey, anti
from some documents which were before the Coe;
mit tee,
Mr. TtERNP.Y. rose to order. He had useirtie
for those papers being printed, Mud his motiet. was
-ed

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could have applied the loo,bagt. DWG arlidntige:,
ously to the country. It, hoirirer, tile firm. Geri; •
tlemen on the other side could torture Apt the -10014
%Arch he denied, he trusted that the Mike Mil
sitst go into the ipiestinn On merely ft lechtt;rd.pOint,
*lien they fatind that the hostutiraye wirit a the
ististernent had- been (Willed. Ihe Noble Lnrd
had said, that the amount of the'llebts hod been care-
fully concealed ; but hecsiAA assure the Itotke, that

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could be shown that the Bank had rendered vast or !infused. Ile consider, it irregular to arene from', his Royal Ilikliness had no bbjeriion to state the pre.
gratuitous services to the eeuntry.—[iferte, herrn: documents that the Members at large were Precluded sent amount of the debt; titiredeenieti. It Was pre:
—lf they had made large sacrifices of their owe in. I from seeing. I cisely the same to the public, whether the T'rilice
terest in time* of. financial difficulty and embarrass. I The SPEA KER knew of no rule of the House Regent had appropriated the 100,0001. to the liquie
meet. But when he saw the Bank. paid by the putt.; which prevented any Member from stating the cub- , down of his debt;,, or for hii out.lit. lie contended,
tic not merely to the full extent of the benefit de. ! stance. of any document in his possession. His state- that it was appropriated to the payment ill' that por-
rived, but liberally and even exorbitantly, he cored I meat would, however, be open afterwards to any lion of his Royal Highlie;:s's debit which Parliament
not consent so to surrender tbe. rights of the public : observations which other Gentlemen thought proper : had itrictty contemplated. There hid beet; nri te,
as to see with satisfaction so material an addition to I to make. ' dertak:og on the part of the late Chancellor of the
the excessive profits now made at the public entente, Mr. WHITBREAD also spoke on the Point of Exchequer, that it would cover till intickletit awl
with no view whatever, bUt that of swelling. the order, and was answered by Mr. Bathurst. : prospective chkrges. Tfiere was no subject on sthieti
coffers of the Bank of England.—L (fear, hear 11— Mr. HORNER, contended, that no person Ought greater misconceptions had been entertained; than on
The lion. Member concluded by moving for an ac. to have an unequal advantage in debate ; it was that of the Civil LW; for When ohe t otisiilered the
count of the stamp duties according to schedule,; wholly incni:siatent with the principles of order to' great increase which indivldaals eiperieticed in Abe
together with a corresponding account of flank read papers that mere not before the House. Minds their private eipenees, it would be found that. the
Notes in circulation hem the Ist of June, 1814, to ' would nettirelly take different views of accounts, and Crowe had by no means kept pace tfith theist i it Had
the let of April, 1815 ; also for ac account of the the House could not come to a fair consideration, if fallen, indeed, beyond its proper ievel ; Ind if Onto
Bank Post Bills issued from , the ttlenth of October, . the Noble Lord should be allowed to read from par- ' measured the situation of the Crotn with 'hilt of the
1814, to the month of April, 1815. : fielder papers in his possession. I predecessors of the King; his Majltatt.iitold hate re-
A long conversation then ensued, after which the I , bird CMTLERKAGIL was merely going testate ceired aunts 10-063,00 M Mitre: '
Motion for an account of the number and amount n I
f results that would afterwards appear in documents Mr. TI ERN EY woutd not kiln* #1401431, Lerd
Bank Post Bills In circulation on the lit of July, before the House. He desired to know what gen. in all his complicated details ;Ince the rein of Gersten
1814, and on the Ist of January, 1815, was agreed tlemen would gain, if his Majesty's Ministers should H. but he was desirous of rentovitift an bapresaion;
to. ;be precluded from giving information ? There never . that to support this engelry shield be to attach ltd.
Mr. GRENFELL then moved that the Move, on : was oily principle an preposterous as to say, that a 'proper motives td bis Royal; Highness. fit 1'1'137,',!
Wednesday next, should resolve itself into a cOlll. Minister of the Crown Should be prevented from considerable sum sus voted to the Not* hi Wnivt
mittee to eolsider of the compensation dee (repo the making communications, merely because lion. Gen. for the repairs of Carltnn-horse, and two teeil lit•-di
Bank to the public, in lieu of stamp duties. • i_ !sterner. were not in possession of the Papers. lii re. . terwaids his Royal nighties§ stone' in. the WO sitW •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIP.QURIV gird to the course of the expenditure of the Civil ation in which he was now placed. it wisust,d 4,
said, that if instead of making the Motion at pre- List doling the present year,— I , that the money had been approprikted le 016i*
sent, the Hon. Gent. would be content to let It stand Mr. WHITBREAD wished to know, whether the purpose; but what was the conduct of his trat
as a notice of a Motion, he should at that time be Noble Lord was going to state any thing from a ape. Highness on that occasion ? Ile implored the vies,
prepared to go fully into the subject. If the Motiou ci6c Paper before the Committee, and nut before the ,to institute an enquiry, and Lord Shelihrld moved .
was now pressed, he must give it his negative. Nouse? ! for it, in the very words which his Noblelteleigi had
Mr. TI FAN EY conceived that it was a monstrous Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that it was not one now adopted. Mr. Pitt did, at first, iii thil
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injustice to the public that the Bank should be of those Papers. enquiry ; but a Committee was sublequi giattleda
'screened from paying the same proportion that other, Mr. WHITBREAD replied, that it it were one, and, in 1791, a report was made to the Dubai. TM
bankers paid in the way of stamp duties. Ihe should take the sense of the House on the pro- t result was, It was made out utistieterily to Peril&
' Mr. WARD said, that it was probable many Meme priety of the Noble Lord's continuing his argument' tient, and his Royal Highness acquired additional
bets bad not yet made up their minds on this subject.' upon it. 1 honours by the investigation. Such, Iso did bill
Considering it contrary to the usual courtesy of the' Lord CASTLEREAGH would relieve the House doubt, would be the result on the pcolikeemi‘ion
House to press a motion of which notice bad nee from any farther trouble, by repeating, that it was ' so far as his Royal flightless was ;tied ; heti
been previously given, if this motion was now : not one of those Papers. Ile should have thought, ' what effect ill advisers might have, he could wit pre-
pressed, he should upon that ground vote against it. ' however, that the lion. Gentleman would have been . tend to declare. His firm conviction wet, that tits
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER unions for information; but it seemed as if he was Royal Highness would be anxious for every possible
agreed, that when new stamp duties were imposed, a little afraid of it.—[ffear, hear! from Mr. Whit. enquiry; and he trusted that the tang df the
it might be right to revise the compensation to be bread]—But the Noble Lord would then proceed Nottli Lord would not divert the aft if the
paid by the Rink, i
with his details. During the whole course of the noes, from the real question. The .' hail
Mr. H iORNER thought it necessary to revise this present reign, the sums paid for the Civil List, in- been seldom brought before the Hou tettelotit the
compensation, not oely on account of the new stamp eluding the ordinary revenue of the Crown, and' ny very same arguments which the Noble Loki bad etre.
duties, but he thought chat it should also be revised extraordinary grant, amounted to 51,693,0001. If ployed. it should not, however, be forgotten, that
with respect to those notes now in circulation. we considered, however, the hereditary revenue of if the Crown had enjoyed' its hereditary posaessions,
Mr. BARING thought that his lien. Friend (Mr. the Crown in the reign of George 11. it would ap- there were many items of expenditure from Which it
Grenfell) would do well to wait until the Papers peer that there bad been a saving to the public of would not have been relieied. The great questieh
which he had moved for could be laid before the 15,526,000). There had been a charge of 5,115,0001. was, whether the words of an Act of Parliament had
House. lie was a little surprised at the manner in thrown upon the Consolidated 'Funds, which being been satisfied by the conduct of hie ansil,,Saelsoesee
which his lion. Friend constantly directed his attaciLie ideducttd from tie grows seefasx;- ftwass- emnalned ad, ist'rs. The Nobletord had suttee/Obit *hen the
against the Beak. -.— . --1.10,710;0001. upon' the whole reign. Daring the 100,0001. were voted, the Gentlemen on his side had
Mr. GRENFELL, in reply, said, that be, might "reign theamount of the Parliamentary grants was only wished to know what was the ground of the
there was already sufficient proof before the house : 3,213,0001. ; on the other hand, the Crown had, out grant. This, he acknowledged, was the truth, but
to show that the Bank ought to pay near three times ,of its revenues, such as the Droits of the Admiralty, it was not the whole truth : he had distinctly asked,
what they actually did pay, in compensation for' &c. given to tha public 1,192,0001. The only ne. what was the nature of the .expenditurtvand ilk
stamp duties. lestend of 42,0001. a.year, they ' cessity of the Crown's coming to Parliament, bad the amount ; and Mr. Perceval stated, that it was
ought to pay 100,0001. lie did not bring forward grown out of circumstances of dishing to adopt a ge- , for plate, carriages, horses, and furniture. That was
thew motions from any hostility to the Bank, but be- , neral economy ; but for those considerations the his answer. It was tree,, that the words introduced
cause he thought it fair that they should pay on ac. Crewe would not have been obliged to seek for any
,into the Act were 41 haVe been, or may be" [Hear,
cutlet of stapip duties, in a proportion equal to whit' relief. He did hope, however, that the country hear! from (he Ministerial side]; but, with t p sin.
private hankers did. The House then divided, •. would be brought to feel, that the bargains made gle exception 'of the fete, his Royal Highness had
For ihr Malawi - 43 with the Crown had been highly beneficial to the not lived in any particular splendour. Ile believed
Artiost it - . - 63
Majority - --`2l community, and had producedseaving of 10,000,0001. that he had executed the Royal fiinctions, but nothing
were re-admitted into the gallery, When strangers 1 With respect to the application of the 1004001. the more ; hi did not assume any estraordlnaty dignity.
the House was considering the Report of the Cons* j be=t possible arrangement had been mede.for which ` It was not a fair statement, therefore, that greit.t es-
-lit was granted. The words of the Act Of Parliament , peaces wise incurred during the period of. testetcted
mittee of Supply. ! ghness was never reit. irrar-vt. are
Mr. TIERNEY put a question to the Noble distinctly stated, that it was to enable the Prince i regency :kirßoyal Hi.
Lord (Castlereagh) about a part of the subsidy Regent to assume the Royal authority. As to call- • alma, and tileitted himself to Cerltorishoese, ttsbig es
which he did loot clearly understand, witk respect to big it an oat-fit, he could only trace that expression . Prince of Wales. Upon the motion he had made
Holland. in the language of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.: on a former night, he stated, that there was an es-
Lord CASTLEREAGH replied he had most ex. Tierney). The only objection that had formally seeding in the last two years and three qourteis of
preesly stated on the former night that this .was not a been given to the grant was, that a species of estimate , 800,0001. to which the 100,0001. being added, the
subsidy, and was entirely independent of the question had not beets furnished on the sum ; bu t It was ' total amounted to 900,0001. The expenses of Cart-
of peace or war. Ile therefore hoped that the Right money voted for antecedent as well as prospective i ton-house were 160,0001. so that adding the 100,0001.
Hon. Gentleman would not in his usual compo.hen. expenditure. His Royal Highness did not wish to Ito that, the whole made 260,0001. for two years and
sive and clear way of stating things, call that a sub- disguise any thing from Parliament. With regard to ' three quarters. The Noble Lord had said, that the
sidy which was in fact no subsidy. the nature of his Royal Highness's expenses in the 100,0001. was not to be added to the 160,0001. but
On the motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, an previous year, the (louse must be aware, that when was to be charged t.. 0 the areount of debts surd.
Account of Fees in the Irish Court of Chancery was be first assumed the restricted Regency, he placed deemed. But Mr. Grey stated, that -he never re.
ordered.
his family on the most economical footing; but, in saved any orders in what manner he was to appre-
-- with hich he was priate that sum, and, therefore, it was applied to

Cfl It. LIST. ' consequence of the full powers with wi
Lord ALTIIORPE rose to make the motion of Invested, he was obliged to make a total change in
which he had given notice, respecting the 100,0001, his domestic arrangements; and, from this consider.
voted as an outfit to the Prince Regent on his taking Idiots, his horses, servants, and carriages were placed
upon himself the unrestricted Regeacy. His motion on a more splepdid establishment. In the course of
should be for a Committee to enquire In what way ' that year of restricted Regency, he never received
that money had been expended. At the time that arty relief in any' part of his establishment. It was,
this sum was granted, it was expressly stated in the therefore, strictly within the purview of the Act, if
debate, that it was to be applied to his outfit. It a part of the money was applied to the liquidation
now, however, appeared from a letter from Mr. of Pittances in the preceding year. His Royal High-
Grey to the Committee for examining the Civil List ness, 'however, hid acted towards the public with
accounts, that this sum was not its fact expended more liberal principles than the Noble Lord seemed
for his outfit, but that it was given to Commis- to imagine. The character of the Prince of Walls
sinners for liquidating the debts of his Roy al ought to he separated from that of the Prince Re-
Highness. It was rather insinuated that those debts gent ; and he could assure the House, that a most
had been incurred during the time of the restricted disadvantageous contract had been made for the pub-
Regency. If that was the case, and it had been lie ; for if the public had provided a complete equip.
fairly stated to Parliament at that time, there would meta for his Royal Highness, it was difficult to say
have been no doubt but that the sum would have what sum they might have paid for it. It was not
been granted. It appeared, however, to him, as if 100,0001. or 300,0001. that would have been suffi-
Ministers at that time called for the money on pre- cient for Palaces, for horses, and other necessary
tence of a purpose to which they knew it was not branches : either of those sums would have been a
to be applied. They were, perhaps, afraid of throw- mere drop of water in such an arrangement. But the
lag out any thing like a stigma on the conduct of his Prince Regent had adopted a system mach more con.
Royal Highness at the time of the new sera ; and, gersial to his feelings : he had considered the sites.
tberefore, proceeded in a more underhand way to ob- tionof the country, and had been unwilling to int.
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fain their object. He concluded by moving for a Com- pose on it additional berthens. For what must have
mittee to enquire into the application of this sum been the espences of the Regent, if his Royal High.
Toted for the out-fit of his Royal Highness. I ness had thought proper to call open the people to
Lord CASTLEREAGH could not agree to the support him in his dignity ? It would have taken a
I motion. However the word enquiry might be genes sum not less than 100,0001. to enable the Master of
rally popular in that House, yet as the vote proposed the Horse for three years to equip the stables. The
went directly to a censure, he mast say tha, he saw Noble Leta had endeavoured to inform himself
not the slightest ground for supposing that there had thoroughly on the subject; and, as fat as he could,
been any improper er criminal application of the learn,.it appeared!. him, that 97,0001. were appria.
money voted by Parliament As to the, general pre- piloted to claims ha the antecedent year. But tbms
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judices of extravagance in the Civil List otpondkure, we must consider the positive property which his
he hoped that these prejudices would not be adopted Royal Highness had handed over as an out-fit to
by that House. It should be always recollected that himself. There was lay mode, therefore, hi which ha

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the general fund for the liquidation of his Royil
Highness's debts. Could the House believe, bow.
ever, that his Royal Highness would ny, for the
sake of obtaining 15,0001. 66 Value the wine in my
cellar, and let me drink it as Prince Regent ?" The
Noble Lord seemed to think (hat his Royal Highness
had a right to dispose of Carlton.house •' but it had
been distinctly made Royal property. He was sure
that his Royal Highness would rather have come to
the House in any shape, if he had been aware of the
miserable statement of the Noble Lord. The
100,0001. were to he appropriated to a specific par.
pose, but there was a direct violation of the Act,
which he defied any person to get rid of. If din
House were content to overlook this matter, then
let them not in future find fault with any breach of
an Act of Parliament whatever. What with the ad.
tional grants that were made in 1811 to the Prince
Regent, the Queen, the Princesses, and the Duke of
York, the new era began at the price of lab sty
170,0001. a year to the public: but besides this,
there had been since 100,0001. more applied far extra
expences at Carlton house. He thought it due to the
independence of the Prince Regent that his debts
should be paid ; but for that purpose a regular Mos.
sage should be brought down to the House, end they
should not be attempted to be paid by a side.wind.
• What the amount of these debts was he did- not,
know, but he knew they must be large, as at least
100,0001. had been granted for their payment, he.
sides 40,0001. oot of the Droits..of Admiralty %hien
were paid over in 1813 to General noise, and when
he asked for what purpose, he wtnt 40141 it• well felt
some very pressing demands of his. Royal itiglarnses,
But the persons by whom his Royal .1111ghnees mug
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surrounded no dbt d heir views it t
feeding him fromou timeha tot tient,own invited of e 604 .
.
WIWI], and stattaittitig the whet* ec the ehOsee

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