The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-05-10 00:00:00

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should encounter' the brutality of an 'smile, or I
the fury of a pickpocket; and finding they could
not convey their feelings in a Common Hall, in a
public manner, they assetebled privately, and
pledged themselves to support the Constitution in
its true loyal form of King, Lords, and Commons,
expressing their confidence at the same time in the
integrity of the King, the whitlow of Parliame2
and the honour and justice of the Judges.
hoped men of real character would not be deterred
by a raob from expressing their honest feelings in
like manner. Ho had sherrn as muds indepen.
dence as any man, and was not afraid to compare
his political conduct with that of any individual
whatever. lie had shown his disposition to eels.
sure the son of a King, and the brother of Mr, Pitt;
and he had also evinced his disapprobation of Sir
Francis Burdett, who he conceived was ten thou.
sand times more criminal than either the Duke 'of
York or the Earl of Chatham ; but he would nei.
' ther juin in a Court faction nor a popular clamour.
He averred that the House had nut transgressed its
privileges, and what it had done was for the irate.
tests of the people. No county had petitioned
exceet the county of bliddleses, and that only
from its vicinity to Safron.hilt.. Whets he saw
other-petitions on the table, expressive of the real
sense of the people of England, his opinion mighrt
change—but until Alt wars the ease, he must con.
echos that the major part of the country approved
of the conduct of Parliturent. Whether it war is
majority of the people or only the twelve mei
who had signed the petition, he cared not, as it
was not upon that ground that. he opposed it ; but
he would ask if there Was arty man in the House
who could put his hand upon his heartt end say
that the petition, formed' as it was upon the reso.
bidets!, was not meant as an insult upon the
House ? If there Gras such a man, let him vote
Grits reception—but as he did not think there
was, he hoped it would he unanimously' rejected.
He would forgive nonsense or folly ; but he could
nut pardon instate, which was the direct eha.
racter of the Petition. It had been agreed to by e
few profligate desperadoes, who were only objects
for criminal jestice, and in that feeling he could
'MA agree to its being received.
SiP VTURTOPI I i

.ir 1. I uR l th‘t ex plenum
• Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY said, the subject
before the House was one which required much
deliberation ; a tenth/fey to which the speech of
the llonourahle Gentleman had not in the 'slight.
est degree exhibited. Re conceived it the date of
the House to lisMi to the real 'or imaginary cum.
plaints of the people: • The terms in which per-
sons who sustained a most material injury, ex.
pressed theirisense of-that injury, 'should not be
en obstruction to the application the remedy
necessary foi its cure. The coraplaintle of the
people should be attettileal. to with the runnel
tulle, and the object of those coMplainte removed,
if such a thing was predicable. The Simi of
Commons ought to be moat desirons that the ap.
peals of the people should be made to them, in
whatever forms those appeals appeared, and-in what.
ever terms expressed. Re sits msevittced• it was
most desirable thit the appeals of the people, issu.
ing through whatever channel, should he directed
to that House. He had not the femme •to be
in the Heusi last night, to hear the grounds upon
which the desire of rejecting the petidoW were co:
tablishel The language was Itubminivr,• end if
parts of it appeared taricesionable to Gentlemen,
why had they not pointed out thlrfeeulier expres-
sions calculated to itkhult the dignity and honour
of the House ? Was it the iatention of these
ho complained of .e. violation of the dignity of
Parliament, to say, that the people had no
right to petition at all, or that their pei.
Lions should be under certain humiliating restric-
tions and condescensions ? An Hon. Gentleman
l'Mr. "Jacob) had stated, that any pertain who
looked into the Petition must be convinced, that
its contents wore intended to insult those to whom
it was directed ; that it was impossible they could
he perused without leaving such an iiapreselutt.
He (Sir S. Remaly) had read the Petition with all
the accuracy in his power; and so far from being
alfeeted with such a conviction, he had not ob-
served throughout any one circumstance of an
Insulting or disrespectful tendency. The Hoe*
eonld nut but be convinced, that his object In
delivering those sentiments was to prevent the
increase of the ditScolties in which it had been
already but too much involved. Nobody could
say that his intention was other than • the pre.
serration of that Horse hem •difficulties ; from
the evil consequences of which, if it was op-
posed to them, a recovery would be impossi-
ble. The Weittninster Petition had been rectiv-
ell, and the. only difference he saw
.between that.
and the Petition front the Livery, was, that the
Chancellor of the „Eachequer accepted of the sone,
and rejected the other. It had sbeen stated, that
the Resolutions entered into upon the meetinik
held Tie the Petitioners, shotild he taken into con.
• sideration. He denied that these acsolinions
should undergo any discussion—that they should
be at all co sit as connected with, and inse.
parable from, the matter of the Petition—they
• had not been sent to that House fur any sane.
• lion, nor for any animadversion; and
by no means looked upon as either adding• lief
influence 'ln this Petition, or deriving any hod
it. In fact the Uense had no right to couple the
Complaint of the Petitioners and their resole.
lions upon the meeting. With respect to 14
resolutions, if they were violent, if they wars
couched in terms, signifying their Whitson add
the conduct of the House of Commons, hi mind,
'tiered it a very strong instance of forbearance that
the resolutions were offensive, and that 061,4010
to that House was net so. He couldseetinundltri
conduct, the desire of the Livery to avoid, as Instill
as possible, the true delineatioW of their teens
roused, as, they hail been, •to eitasporation.
Hen. Gentleman (Mr. Jacob) had 'Weds
there was not a majority of the Livery pretest m
the meeting, end had distinguished between
people and the populace, in a mamma. highly in.
suiting to that assembly, and equally so to the
understandings of that House toendure each edit-
tinction. Hefted stated that the detent people
were 'prevented from attending the Meeting, en
account of the multitude of pick.pockets and

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&mamba who,aUmUled it
Suck assertions as these were
ill popular assemblies—as
from whom that House had

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reputation. .It had been
dins had set been sat di
whit4lM" hall pehyed; %It
was saPpeeed that mill being
nu probability of the rocepti_
000 eluded with saying, that the practice
timing should be etteettrageti by elketriloular as
by it were communicated an Impoftinad and abet
'sett, which the House, if it preserved a due re=;
geld fee its dignity and repeeation,' could sewer
dispense with% Shereceivincof that PetitionlaW
casioned tomileiseettneut of Others. Ile congaed*
such s citionatettnew mrestveteeir important:. tat
protested iwuroog terms against the language tried'
by thetronounible Gentleman who spoke last.
Mr. W. WYNNE said, that if the Pinkies.:
wu bounded by the idles of propriety, and
coached in language not offensive to the dignity or
hunotir of this House, he did not see the übliga.
lion upon the people to 'frame their. revolution in a
manner which was repugnant or hostile. to their
feelings; they were nut dbliged to* repress the
warm expreption of their sentiments, whether
tbeseleekeip, resulted from ~ their disapprobation:
at-dliskillitilmt of the House of Commons or noq
otsrbetherlhose sentimevitowere Inspired by dis.
geaerirritation it 4he .conduct of other bodies
ot:Mtpe ; be, however, conceived, that the Peti.
1 destoranut far from being woe calculated to gain
the objsct.which it bad professed its wish.. to Mat
lain; for, instead. of being expremed in terms!
width it was the practice and the duty of peti.,
I tioners.to Use, it uttered the most palpable abuse,
isod levelled against, the House a language most
grossly disrespectful.. lie here read the first
pert ,of the P.utitioo, and asked whether- there
could be auv doubt as to the improper and
diseespeelful application of the remark ? .Thel
House should use its common sense, and con.
Miler whether this Petition 'was from those who
*ere seeking a redress of -grievances, or from
the* ,who were intent upon insulting' that
Mottos, to Which it professed to apply for a re-
medy-to certain intolerable calamities. He would
lot enter into dap question of the privileges of the
House superseding the laws. Ile looked upon
the Law of Patliament eta portion of the Law of
the Land, Om shield by ohich oar ancestors lad
guarded the country against tyranny and- usurps-
deo ;.- kited bout retried witkits dignities audits
haitairs by the present generation, and should be
handed down to posterity,. Unsullied and emboli.
nished. Upon. these grounds, be would vote fur
the rijectittio of the Petition. ,
• Si r J 0 II N DiIVPOH:I- observed,. that Ilte reef.,
idol of a Petition implied disepprobatioey awl' that,
it disappeuLtation of the conduct of. the' Monet Was
,liniett ground of ohjeetioa, they might have,A4.
hibleeses, bet they never could have Petitions. Were
they to force the people to allot, their grievances
to fereseut in. their own bosoms, jointed of comieg
with a decleration of them to the Howse ? .This
was *hat had *produced the calamities on the Con.
dealt. , Tbtrprivilege of Mating their grievances,
was one which he-hoped the people would never
out with ; 'fur, if they did, there was ao end of
the Constitution. This Petition came from a re.
galar Body legally convened, which en Honour.'
able Gentleman, who had been elected to a hi'
oleo in the City (Jacob) bad character)ted
by coupling them with ,11511aSSitil and -pittlia
pockets from Saffros.kili end Fleet.latte l--....Kr
Were the Livery of Loudon and the litho*.
tants of Westminster to be debarred from pre:.
seating Petitions, beltaulle they. happeued to here
such places as Saffron,hill mod Fleet-land in their
neighbourhood / As to his assertion, that there
Were no . Petitions (rote other Counties, • there
might be such Petitions in good time ; but at any
rate were they to refuse to heir a part of the pee.
pie. till the whole came forward ? Sir J. neat ad.
veiled to the Counter Declaration, which he con.
tended was irregtilar. Now were Counties to be
assembled if this practice was_ to become general.
—lnstead of going about from house to house
for signatures, all who• could ought ,to hate
.attended the meeting. It was their duty to
Aare' dinie so. But then the Honourable Gen.
'demean said., that the King's Bench was sitting at
.Guildhall, and that a great number gut in under
the pretence of going to that Court. Vas that
always thecase ?• Were these meetings never to be
considered as of any great consequence, escept
whets they approved of the conduct of Ministers ?
A greet deal we said. about taking the reuse of the
.peetile le Uppeiiiititi to that of the House of Corn.
mons, when the :cry of 46 No Popery"..aeto set
up, (Hear ! hear!) They had already found
that turn against themselves, and. they were not;
. the first whoereeted engines from which they them.
selves antlered. It would be a fatal do for . tile:
Constitution of the country, teetets the people
should be prevented trues egpaqopipt,theie UO-,
aiwis. • . 40,9 m it.... , . i..
Mr. PE ELE asked whetheatilo.44 spit-
et) the Petition thought dierig *ate litlys fermi, suf.
.ficiently harsh to justify the rijoetiuu era petition?.
If not, then he asserted that it was perfectly Toe-
less to nut the question) whether. any Petition.
should be received. Ile asked whether the House
might not claim the humble privilege of and indivi.
dual,.to repel insult ? It it had uut this privi.
lege, it was necessary that Members should know'
it, that they might think the Petitioners for their
forbearance. Thu worst way to prevent insults
was to acquiesce in them ; and he did net think it
very squeamish' in them tetake offence at a charge,
of aturder, mad an assertion, that their conduct
totaled to establish a military despotism. If they
were to "tat that paper on the table, they might
-peepers to eapect insult—it knuckod at, the dour
ite this humble character of a petition.; but when it
Ivo in it would thew its real .trature. He thought
it was not too much to empire that petitions
thould at least hair the negative merit of decency.
It Wu said that the construction of the House did
not-entitle it to nay thing better ; but those who
looked* a parer House of Commons ought nut to
admit • preetsdent that might be ,applicti to any
future lionise. [Mar" hear!) .Atisotkroothe.e oh.
jectiutts to the petition, one -was) that it (trended

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mytion that an illegal act
thefime when, according
, the question was pebdiog.
rejection of this irkp
..eapressing his re _
differ. f 6 *IOW (deeds
rol
never atoseettoo-sisice
his poli tatter,
ibts The oasis could
.usisteit to the-Afters of OW
'Aifigts'i xi, 14--illkil•groat measttre stand on its i
Olin me' • e allosied titat the temper of the
' . onseoughtle be rather' td .eartind than to Ober
!tract the itenUtulor Petittotse; hat they ought to
turd against the wantothebese of the right. lie
;knew no *ay more .likely to 'Stefano the
right, if he might be ' allowed the expression,
than to allow a wanton attack ;On thu priti.
• lege* of the House, which were, these of tat*
.people.—..--fiv would not rrjett' a Petitintik,
• though the prayer was spinet- his own opinion.. Illif
be, must attend to times and circumstances. ' , 11 that I
;had been an insalatet'Petition, he Would not 14011
'been Much dis Posed to reject it, thougiike did not.
altogether approve of it. Hot this . was the third'
improper Petition, or rather the second,' cue at
them having been received.
,This was at low the i
second altruist which had pfticp uffered. Bit it had
belie said, that the ;444 ageiniethe Howie woes',
not direct assertions, but steted`ha,
. tis. How
would thii have anaticked lo prlifidi •, 1. gecpolle
I
any one said teeny, Gentleinaulsin f fur in.
stance, that he *nee common cheat; 'Leeward, -or
an incendiary, thee he would he entitled to repel
the insult; . heti( it was statue as nay the opinion
of the person aoeusing hriii,.litert it - was to pass
without notice! There was .14, trail) nothing its
the distinction. He would ask any one to read
that Petition, and then to say whether Iteprimary
object was not to affrout the fosse [Hear, hear i]
The prayer was only a secondary object. Who.
ever read thirspeeches delivered at 'these meetings,
could hardly fail of being convinced that* there
was a systemalleiphin for keeping Op Alikk'll*lnfiko
*the minds of the people, to the subversion offtekei
Rights and Pried id the If tetse.4 'llliate um*.
141
should recelvetMs ! ileittit wituldtipt. be kia. iA)C„il' ,
to a desiro of co idols, but to:illsebt anti fear.,
lie thee adverted' W is. sleack of in Heston rabic
Friend of Me "(probably Mr. AVldttiread), which
he described as awed.° to the Petition. ' !flits un-
derstood that Wails 'iltstended,to .be sit, ho'hOped
that few would agree -with his lillonotaahie Friend
itriipiniOn. Mc itiostatted with him as' to' the lin.
propriety efoetie,:ttote on this WaielierekEx petit-
tioa. •No doubtesajoritieedt'diat fletislesight be
wrong. •He moist sioppokeso; 7 air) thegreuterpart
of Ms woks had heels given 'in tronittority. ' But
they were not to judge of the IlOuselroten retell.,
ciitar act. s Thby-weret -td take the • agigkarrtal of
advantage and disadvantage. [hear! ilea!'!] • ...
Mr. -WHITOR HA ill denied•that he hatexpres.,
tied any aplaiiin open the merits of the Petition,
as his flunoti refit° Priem( had asserted.
Mr.. &LIAO it eat Oki ti beer theAssisviraL •
Mr. WA.ltin.l.l, as a Member of the Livery of
London; as well as a Mcurber of that Douse, felt I
himself bound to, makesume obetivetioris upon thli I
question. Ai a Member of the Livery, he dared
Ati say that the whole tit ihallietty felt as indiffer-
ent as he 'did to the reflettions. tireosen but in the
' course of this-debate, and particilarly to the opt-,
nisi') of an Honeurabte Gentleman• on the oft&
side, eke had indulged so mine'' In such reflec-
tions. That Honotsrabluetleatletnan had thought
proper to describe the !Common Hill as a tumor.,
Lt uous turbulent assemblyibtit such could not
the opinion of that Body .by OS Lord Chief Jai.
tice.of England; for thatlioble Lord -esperietsdid
no laterruptlon whatever,- althingh cloud**
his judicial functions immediately adjoining thb
Hall ; suet when hb eietired • ;the flail it-
self, on his easy from the Geoid of `King's Bench,
far from witnessing as conduct' that would
justify the character ascribed .to ' the 'Meeting by
the liont.urablo Gentleman; Itis 'Lordship was'
treated in passing with the utmost defertmce. Upon
the debate with respect to the Mkldlesex 'Petition,
_he expressed the same °pinks., Which ho entertailpted ,
on this occasion. He declared, that in neither
case did there appear to exist tho allthtest digital-
dun to give offence. On tile! Contrary, he be.
liered it was the anxious- wish. lit,tlie Petitioners
not to d 6 so. For hicpart, he mild not, 'het
candidly examining the whole of the, Petition as.:
der debate, find soy inktlmissibld Matter net: X. 4.4
sive expression.. As to tho number of agnatstree4
this paucity was netosiouidy acciraiiitto the es-I
tablished custom of the Livery; whore k few sag
for the whole. But if, eceortheg'tet the duct ,
of some GestleMen, the whole et those' who a
proved of sky Petitio. shouldialiscribe to it,,
: a doctrine night to be mede public end unio
prescribed-..fur otheswise,the contrary, which.*
generally the present ;averse,- 'night tenderises
Petitions questionable,• it to the sentinittili' Of
.the Body from whim they professed to come.
'The Right ileauurablOCientlensan (Mr: Pereevel)r
rind alleged that this Veldt)* contained 'clothier,
.but insult, and that pm:mutilated too ; but he
(Mr. IV.) really could not cenreive that any green'
body like the Livery of London could meditate.
any such thing4-aeaddi if he might so ettpress
himself, condescend = to. Offer ass insult--[ Hear,
hear! on the Ministerial bandies] —yes,' he wonk
repeat, condescend, mid even degrade itself. Flitl.l
in his judgment, the party that offered en lush
everi degraded itself seem than the party that re
anted it. Was it tole supposed,' that if the par.
ty frees whom HAI Petition caulks meant Ito insult
the Haase, that that. party could not have more',
effectually contrived ,to,eonvey that insult through
the medium of Resolutions. If it . were said
that such raistlntiona . might' be ;prosecuted for
libel, he would ask, wholkee:tiut Liscry.of Lon.
dun had not as meet 'Sight SCV %011ie.= their
opiniosi . spun (public *traits as that • House
could predand to, and srhetkee.thaappedbeneiou of 1
such a prosecution was likely te Aim any cause of
restraint.if the Livery wetedisperdedfreely Wiwi.
madvert upon the tendon, otaeseese Gentlemen'.
would impress it, to *Well the dipeitys of- that
--ifouse? .W by then should it be aeppeold, tiset if
• the Livery meant to hiatsit theralsomieblitiaa VP 'a
mode so Hite suited to the completogratitentlon of

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• , A.-, •
.0.0.....6......Z3010144111:: itt.iosehrreetigLaiii.
eli-ulb;
upon the dillait--:,• iii;Priiir upon the anti
re a direct attack lIIIISF hasi brio committed, at I
*ambito bY aPPeilft 10,their own view of it,
1 derived au important
,lie would vote for the iv
said, that other Peti- hlNEl4lol,,.after
I *At t1011•0e0,- VtOlii *lllO ditto
it te couceivio4l ant II o *e;2l "r re
g *jolted, theta nikee4 . ot ..of
lion of any other'. Ile hi he t dOubl
it the practice of pill- so Seed Me .with realm