The Statesman.
London, England, 1813-05-12 00:00:00

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jet!

o„,„sieemee—__
the renewal of the East India Compaby's Charter there seemed no md, to the Honourable Baronet'
was undergoing. The lion. Mover of the Bill and' thirst (9, al‘ikmiry seleraltothadlewith his-own '-
from that course which on • added to his committed's . notion in the
eis friends were receding d - Parlia- lice book ss.- en. thew' d..fors.
iolmer occasions they had
always prdesaed(TMs put him in " and
her purposes.
the necessity
who
..
a. mind of do 'learned &wilting
went to adopt. They had always waged
f investigation, and yet now they resisted investi- after w tiug-a book &omnibus rebus, a&
quibusdast •ukisiF-41 load- lour
o : When the Hon. Gentleman obtained leave int appendix *
gallon.
to bring in the Bill, he stated that he would bring it -The Honourable Boronot t had proposed
i,, before the recess, in order that it might be printed course,
,end brought his boa and pipets, not wit
and considered during the holidays. , wish that the Committee should proceed In the __--. testimony,
Mr. GRATTAN denied having made any such de- posed enquiry, but with a certainty that it could not was required by the Crown ; that It shoUld require
ri,m ration.
be done: for how could they makeehenmekes masters testimony as to theloyalty of thse persons to' be no-,
hie RYDER supposed then that he had misan- of 120 Teton's, folio, to which the Hot,. Baratta minated, without interfering with the liontlnetion.-t
tls.oo
d the lion. Gentionan. • Certain it was, , had referred j. lie should like for one to see Doctor The Honourable Baronet had said; that A. pre.'
weever, that the measure had undergone a most in- Eratmus Admirabilis, and some such works, com- sent,. many of the Catholic Bishops were not canoe
Aequate consideration. Ile mould assert with out minted epee by a learned Chairmen.' 'teCiiiiiiftitte'e . nicaily eiected; but What was that to any 'only
hazard of contradiction, that it was the first instance before a despairing quorum. Then there was juges- 'except the person ' losing the election ? What
Ma which a Bill professing to make a great change in Onus, It vols. folio ;. Thomas .aptinat, surnamed would the Crown care, provided the patron elected
the Constitution had been read a first time in one Doctor Angelicas, of whom it was said that appere. . was one oar whose loyalty. dependance .might be
wee,
k and proposed to be read asecond time the re aninain Augastinii .migrasse,hs Aquinam.- ' placed ? He was anxious to avoid interfering In,
week after. This was the fault of the Hon. Gentle- his *ether was, however, very loudest. for a matters purely spiritual; if othe Veto' were given,;
man and his coadjutors. They had themselves been t_e_eolog{an, for he had written mity eight-vols. folio. : the right would infer a dutye and the:Crows would 1
two months engaged in the concoction of the mea- Then mime, Thomas Scotus, 11.,sols: why by.the. then be involved in all the minutia and diodes of
sure, and they now thought it decent end proper ie. igt4.7:l _constantly opposed,. 'tooth and (Mail, to , canonical -"election-AU/ear, hear!)--4ind' in the
call on the house, by consenting to the second reed-
Aquinas,. as much es the Honourable Ba- : setercise of the Veto, the Crown must have recourse !
jug, to give their sanction to the principle of the Bill tithet and nhis -Right • Honoomili Friend . (Mr. `to testimony, which would be collected 'from the
after a single week's consideration! It would almost I Ryder) ,had bosh forntetly ;WC their discord& persons dwelling in the neighbourhood of the persons
appear as if they were solicitous that Parliamad ;emcee were to be made up: in Ails Committee.--: elected ; therefore it would at length come to the
should not understand it. lie would vote for thee! lifter voiding through all this, *Committee would ,same.poltita only in one case Government would act
Committee, because among other reasons it would : be Only on the threshold, and oncoming to the.point,lon anonymous testimony, collected by the Secretary
occasion de'lay. Ile was sure that when the Bowe ; they would find Cardinal Bellarmlee, yho had writ. , for Lreland-lewhile, on the other baud,. the security
coaaderod the seldom properly they would not thee.i.teh &hook; 11•Autor!ftute Paitificotiors its Sectilitri. be projelksi would be tlma____*miaelmonrelt*
Ave senior.
agree to read the lion. Gentleman's Bill a second diss. Thin work was •not only to be read, but !Oh* I Catholic Peers ; 'for milletiiii adoiliteminliad.Peame to.l
time. If ever there was a legislative meatiore in the etsviied e, (or should lk. ddileet,elor • instancer fie ithh-gonsdlution, he mould. Alms MAIO on thefts the
adoption of which it was desirable to avoid the'. proughtbefore the.Conwaitteepasel appeatto disagnie 'task of defending it. Hi Should cortelder the testi-
slightest semblance of hurry or precipitation, it Was 1 with the Cardinal,. he krone should, pot. be able to lawny of five Peers, thus pablicly 0104 preferable
that which they were then called upon suddenly to; coati& him, 'unless he had :his Bellymine .by heart. to any that could be collected 'by a Secretary frost
e
agree to-a measure calculated to excite the fears !In enumerating' the works' *hi% .the .'Committer rotionvmou% and, perhaps, from prejudiced witnesses.
and jealousies, and, if they would, the passions and 'should have to stiely,'lme ha ()Milted a good Many; ; The kight'Hon. Gentleman said such briefly was his
prejudices of so large a portion of the community.-; there wal4 for instance, a -Thesaures &cleats, in 2111 view of the question relative to the Veto. He declared,
If the Rouse shisuld decide against the numerous' vols. folio, and the House might form a pretty so. however, that he should go into the Comnittee on
Petitions on the table, at least he trusted that they euratajudgment of the time requisite. to QOMs to all 4 the Bill with a mind completely unfettered, and that
would not do so lightly amid unadvisedly. Their that theological knowledge,, 'plea b they were to obe „asehsuld willingly concur, in any • measure that
constituents had certainly no right to expect that tain it like the Hon. Baronet, by inspiratioh.-[A , might be proposed, which should appear calculated
they would sacrifice to public opinion their con- 1 laugh.)-Thus much for the learned part of the' en- to peolitOte the object in view. There was one other
sciences and their judgments, but they had a right to' quirt'; but to proceed to thee political part, how its point to which the Honourable Baronet bard alluded,
expect that the 'utmost care should be taken to in, the Hoc. Baronet to.cOmeat the knowledge of foreign ;it was the ignorance in which they were involvere, as
vestigate so grave a question, and that Parliament regulations respecting the Episcopacy and thO•com. ito the internal, regulations of the-Catholic Church.
would not preclude itself from obtaining all that in- , municatione with, the See of Rome? Was be .to H..hoped bnri monld continae them in that igne-
formation upon it which they were accustomed to ' !:ring forward the Primate of Austria, the Archbishop ; rance ; for be had no disposition to go into those es.
seek for on similar occasions. of Mohilow, or what should be much more to The goiries.liewhich theilenourable Baronetappeared to.
Mr. GRATTAN, in explanation, observed, that purpose, the Pope himself,' and induce him to settle ' delight. With regard to foreign correspondence
in moving for lease to bring in the Bill he had said in a Concordat the terms on which 'the Roan Ca.' it still went on ; and the opposers of the proposed
that it was his wish to bring it in before the recess; tholics of this country should hold relations with manure •would render that correspondence immor-
but he had never pledged himself to do so.' the Holy See? This was absurd. The enquiry as., tal,_ln order to defeat the Bill. It was treason
111 r. CANNING first requested that the motion to the state of Catholics in the colonies was esee to receive. Bulls and other papers from the See of
of Cr John Cox Hippisley might be again read from 1 less ; there were none but in Canada, amid their Rome ; and yet it was done every day. It was
the Chair. Ile then desired that the Clerk should ; exact situation might be found in a Bill in the re- somewhat singular to hear those who affect to •be
read the motion of the 24th of April, 1812, for a cords of the House. As to the arguments drawn anxious for the welfare of the' Constitution, coo-
Committee on the Catholic Question, which was ; by the Honourable Baronet from a 'supposed in- tend for the' continuance of such astate of_things 4.,
negatived by a large majority. Was it after such i tention to re-establish 'the Jesuits,, it weutidireetly but should. the present motion meet with effectual.,
a resolution, which his Right Honourable Friend ; against him, for it proved the law could not re. support, in such a state they would remain until the
was one of the most forward to oppose, that he I main as it was, that it ought to be altered es (lane ; Hon. Baronet'had made the circuifof the world.- .1
j referred a charge of inconsistency against others, gerous to the Protestant establishment itself; And ' He had no doubt that *boon., offered to the Ca
-
whilst he was himself strenuously supporting a re-1 for this they bad the authority of two the gravest tholics would be thankfully received, •he would not
solution couched in the very identical terms of that 'authorities in the House (Sir William Scott andthe go the length of saying that some turbulent spirits
he had formerly opposed 2-[llear, hear !]-11e i Speaker). As to the few Catholics Who had taken. would 'not attempt to stand in the way of final ad-
did not wonder at the versatility of his Right Honour- ; the oath in this country, it ought .to be recol- justment; -nut be .did ..iint think that even out of
style Friend, noe-frem• any deeciercy in hie mind, I !feted that the oath was only a qualifying easy ' that Mew. they- would -meet with-rook asuppeo‘t
but from the helplessness of his cause. It we's land those only took it who meant le avail them- and if the attempt, were made. in . the House, be
strange, however, that being compelled by his Want I selves of the advantages proffered hy the Bill:- trusted it would be altogether unsupported ; hot
of means of defence to take a course, at which,' hel He conjured the House not to ' biller themselves if the measure was to be defeateddie hoped it would"
was sure, his
.nature must feel abhorrent, he had to be' led by insidious 'measures 'to retrace the be in open day, and not in the mist. of obscurity,
been so imprudent as to couple with his arguments ' steps they had .already taken,' so meth to the Wis. which, as Homer had observed, was something better
in favour of a hopeless cause, an accusation of in- faction of the -people, : They had--bad the :choice than eight. to cover the purposes of mischievous
consistency against men who had invariably persist- ;of two courses,, a. Committee ve • a Bill ;• the ;mat. lie did-not • know how those Gentlemen
ed in the same line of conduct.-[Hear, hear !)-! former had been. rejected by ajarge majority, and i might feel who were inclined• to support-the motion
When the Ron. Bart-brought forward his motion, ; now, that the Bill' was biought forward, they, were' of the Honourable Baronet,. but he should be
he hid doubted at first, whether or no his sense of I- taunted with not having proc*eded'first in' a Com, ashamed 'to go out of the House 'covered with: a
bearing had misled him, not conceiving that such mittee. In every question, dela& :wee • no"deobt victory obtained by fraud.-[!leer, hear!]-The
i
a motion would come from him ; and to clear his important,• but the panel*, was. everrtbiogeeas I Honourable Baronet reminded him of something
doubts,- he had been reduced to the necessity of r.Lord Liverpool.- had dechmed • is another place, I which he had read in the Arabian Nights, he ap•
requesting a second reading from the Chair.- ! aell.ito4 4 preposition bep):,ptado. to theta - to, get,' peered to believe that there was, in Africa, a mael
lishee he had seen,
.however, by whom the motion rid of the measure by. an :iesidieus.metion, he was, &bur possessing the secret of security, and he!
had been seconded, his doubts had taken another sure he 'would hive rejected it with scorn. The wished to go there for a talisrmut to guard the
direction. But reverting to the charge of incon. Right lion. Gentleman said, thiti-he inns usually fn-"! English • Constitution:, He was of • opinion, how-
sistency, it should be recollected that when it was i dined to' follow the precedents to be found • in' the , ever, that security was to be found among the peo-
brmight against men, who had been entrusted by ptactice of thet.House, but in- the present:instance ! tee, without going abroad to search for it.-[ilear, 1
the House with the preparing •of a Bill, the prin.! he: thought theprinciglestasowed. in Big:other were.: hear !]-The lion. Baronet had claimed the merit
ciple of which had been sanctioned by no equi. ; wlrtliy..9(tilitsio,n, his Rights lion,. Erieud (Mr. of .consistency. lie had indeed been consistent, in
vocal majority, it was arraigning the act of the j Grattan) had been arraigned b.y. the Honourable J looking with microscopic eye at the detail, while
house itself, and" defeating with ambiguOus voice, i Birenet for precipitancy ims: lib` ineasuCes, and others had been employed in examining the princl-
ler purposes not well understood, the object they lasr otheri foi'dehiy. He eAmuld espial(' the reasons' pier of the measure; and when they were Imasteeing
evidently had in view... lie knew that upon. all ' for- that delay, which was occasioned chiefly by, to the relief of a nation, the Hon. Baronet wished
nmeasures there .were two different languages, i his andictatioteto his Right Honourable Friend, in' to call them back to take a bundle• which they had
one used in the House, and the other out of dears.; lerder toaweid the evil of the Bill going forth to the dropped from their Chariot-[lime, hear !]--
but the meaning of the motion was so Plaint ' *pantry in enincomplete form ; he could assert that' Like another Coriolanus,l.who had been denied
that no drivelling idiot could be selected any. whomillbits had beeh no wilful delay, nor any uttnecei-`: the higher offices of the State, the lion. Baronet had
so innocent as not to see that it was intended to, ihrfOreeitiibilichl and he'hoped the Bill las adeanc- !, gone over to the enemy ; but having nmadebis friends
defeat the purpose of the Bill--[llear, hear!]-. ing thithappy conclusion. It might be mid that he feel the weight of his loss, he hoped that 'he would
If the Hen. Baronet himself did not see it in • that had been opposed to'precipitation ; it was true, but ! again return to succour those friends, ere he was be-
light, he should be willing to praise his good dispoe he did •not think that on the second reading of the : trayed and destroyed by the Voliciuns-[Load cheer.
si(ions at the expense, of what was impossible, con- Bill, any delay should take place,- the stage. im- I kg.] :
sidering his numerous publications, he meant at the mediately preceding the perfecting the Bill,,,was I Mr. BRAGGE.BATHURST rose among many
expense of his understanding.-[A laugh. 1 Dot a proper time for delay. lie saw no Teasel* forlinterroptions, and said, -that notwithotandingall the,
Hon. Baronet might, perhaps, be encourag in his further delay, which would dnly enable any Orson f eloquence, ridicute, and sarctsem, thane& been em-
proceedings by the cheering of those men who had i who could purchase a corner in a venal.: Newspa. 1 ployed by the Right Hon: Gent...who stadke•hist, he
constantly opposed the Catholic Cause, but he • per,• to disunite the people, and to -prolong ,a pain- I must takelthis'opportunity. of vindicating himself add
should reflect that they would make up for the • ful irritation of the public feeling.-[flear, hegr.9 ! others, who had been-attacked. The latter Oft of '
breath thus spent in the House, by indulging in their ; The point on which the House had decided, was i the lastaipelech had, in fact, nothing. to do with the i
long constrained laughter& when out of' it ;his old Ito remove the civil. and military disabilities under I question, as this wii not the proper. stage for thei
friends, the friends of the Roman Catholic Cause, i which the Catholics laboured, subject to certain con-' discussion of his intended clauses. • Though the
were stillbis real ones, and they would not have (Mons. The Bill of his Right Honourable Friend ;Moose had sanctioned the introductioteof the Bill by.•
served him in such a way. The motion of the Hon.! went to effect this object-4f it had 'gone further, be' the Committee, yet it was fair in him, or any other
Baronet was not, as he had said himself, against the; would have exceeded. the trust delegated to Min.:- / Member, disapproving' of- it, to interptise delayon
principle of the Bill, for that had been already de- IHe approved-of the Bill in .its principal parts. He time second reading, or to move that the. Bill be thad
sided, but it came heft re its discussion, and as pre- I agreed with his Right Hon. Friend in pest of the a second tiamiethree months thence,4•thertheught
I
paratory to it. The lion. Baronet did not mean to ! points of the question, although from Oleic different proper to do so. Nobody charged the 'Right HOU.
the ..
delay the Bill, bUt he meant to pause to mature Osisituations, they viewed It. In different lights. gist Getitt with. inconsistency,' when he said
provisions. He gave the Honourable Baronet' ' '' - -. Friend, from his -
credit for that distinction. lie did not mean tnxiotr
to delay, but to pause, perhaps for eight years,
until some esperienced Ambassador, perhaps the
Honourable Baronet himself, should have com-
pleted the necessary enviries in Foreign Courts.
[hear/ and a letught]-He did not mean delay,.
but a pause, until the whole of Africa and Asia had
been explored, 'to discover the nature of Roman-
Catholic Institutions-until the Arclibildrop of MoL
hilow should haw been consulted on the subject Of
the communications with the See of Rome-and,
men he should have poured nn the table of the I
House, not only the inexhaustible stores-of his owh
rind, but also the bursting contents of the troi-'
Illoot.kut, bee before him.-[Aloud hiogh.]-In fact,' •
. , •

.•

STA MAN.: , , •
ronet's Tejo had baep.peopoiaa'`
ytji t weasute, he had
hand, never been called on for gin an •opinian—but
is no- Wank) then, &dare, that flo sijootatt to Its Not on
Catholic, bat sspon .Proteetiagrennds.- He 'wooed
'longue, not go into that point at any length, .for,-wittiatit
added considering the Motion of the Hon. Baronet on the
Bill of. Mr Right Hon. Friend, it was alone soffi-
t that dint to furnish matter 'for a debate'; lint when lie
with a came to discuss the point of vanity, he would say,
a pro- that testimony, and not nomination, Was all Aid

points of the question, atinougu irom yieir.cnnerenc propc.-
situations, they viewed, it, in different lights. Hie' Geoff with: inconsistency,' when he said the times
Right' Hen-Friend, from his hnowledge.of the ct. were new relative to the subject: - He (Mr. 8.):11114.1.
tholies of Ireland, • *is anxious to fratne aideashre opposed the motions for going into Gommittees.onl,
to redress their grievitvices, -and bei'frenv bis se this subject, because he had not foreseen: tiny -prir..l
quaintance with Protestint opialert,s was equally, bability.of doing any thing in thenvidOttual-:andi
anxious to provide emit; wrcuritiesfor the satisfactory. • What was there•iiietinsistintintie ma.
ment ; with. this view, ike;lind hrouFhf forward jority would entertlin'the ?
suhject-Lbut he had after/tin:is given . into the Friend agreeing to enter into a prelitnientry enquiry
hands. othis Right flent.'Ftllindi and he Iblelity The principle• Of the Silt' recednlifel dental/On to !
that if he woold • db• fitiW the 'ham* tteadript His the Cithicilicsi accintspanied hitliNikescurity to the
propositions, he Would .gladly relinquish all claims Protestant gstebilibment; thititoire of 'the projected
to the mecit of having ;or,iginacqd Lbw. Likareatiag olamiendesetied the stehaeotriecnritys ." Nobody-was
for an arrangement sLitbr t ,Gatliegesillo. the lint and op. apthe•rtidlettoht 'of the'llonse: the tat:
point for consideration, • eps., the appertalqrrot or ketch ihkift be serf **stale If Prietitshiar Intelf
theirloyaltY ;"ind tWe the
disposition they, the provisions ler the settind'did: not reader it is,
it
might manifest to' sheet' thir.-lissitee4ir ale'proptailtd, Wal.iwoper Hetishehodla 'tieetive glair
ansugieuifit; veget444, tap Asa iletteti 4he light esiiiireplieleetiettilei-lieo7 when toted for the