The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-07-24 00:00:00

^

•
-711))11/."'‘


by piracy. and requesting the ariatance of the house
towards 'brie obtaisiag redress. The Petitioners stated
that their loem-a were occasioort principally in the
West Indies, is eauseireare of the ontrageo of Spaniels
Pirate.' ; thatitaptittatioas bad hoes made to tie Rag-
ligh Admiralty on the sobjert, who bed applied to dm
Seasish Government ban witlonit eff--ct. The Right
Hee. Omitleasaa said that the first haematite which he
wank ~series to wait the Petition was a case of
*tree!, sueyasiety Isy the meet bother-sue aturder.—
This torah place to Beemalmir lost. otf Cape Anionic.—
Anodiev fastest* occurred as rectally us last March.—
This was accompeaiod by robbery, sad matiler ao deabr
would have followed, had it rat beta fee the appearance
in sight of an American ship. The Right Hon. Cientle-
man trusted that every liiimr world be done by the
Spanish armor's's& to prevent a recurrence of these
enosionsi bat if it bad net the power to matron' its
P• 101614 aught to be afforded to our owl
coolmreely ear s ittesell.—(Host. bear.)
Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said, that when the Ad-
' miralty were Aratapprioed If the hoisting of the lade-
;midget flag, they gave orders for tin seizure of such
vessels as should, soder that lag. commit depredations
01 the British property. Some seizures took plate in
totisewmnice bat a dillisalty bad arisen as to the after
airy legal grief tabling home the charge of the differ-
ent offences. The woo be Admiralty heard of the
enormous outrage alluded to by deo Right. Hoe. Oen-
Herbed. they inquired iota die subject. and fiend that
there was established off Cape A Moan a neat of depre-
dators, whose object was to seise epos all vessels not
being mot of war. la coosequenee of this an English
mat of war waudiapatched to watch the place; and a
reamostrace was oast to tie Spanish Court. The /loose
would see that it would oat be proper at present to
make an hostile &m oat upon the place. There was
reason to believe that the Spanish vessels would be or-
dered to co-Operats with oar own for die purport of ex-
, terminating these toothier The Admiralty. however,
were in general averse from giving coivoy to forsigo
vessels. He ought to state that the Captain of one of
oar men of war was now obliged to aliment himself from
the reentry of amount. of his inability to answer a ver-
dict fot3A.lloo/. which had been obtaiped against Idol
in consequence of his having toy hastily, and 10 the
%warmth of his beings seised epos a: Spanish vessel
which there was reason to believe was, engaged in piracy.
Mr. CANNING explained.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said that, if tie'
question were OM of unmixed piracy, there would be no
difficulty whatever. Bat the vessels allotted to were in pot
sesaion of commissions from allegedegtherity. This bad
orcatinaed an order of the Admiralty in the /ear 1818.
directing the selzureof all vessels that *Preset equipped
from a part belonging to lliance which gave them
commit/sins, provided they lAfiffl roniniirtrel depredations
open British property: As his Gallant Frieod had
'staled, a legal difficulty Occurred In'consequence; and
the order was then extended Ii terms giving a power to
seise these-vessels upon 'ressonaible ;Founds of suspicion
that they ltd bee* engaged in piracy. 1e had not since
beard of any attack upon British ptoperty ; and, with
respect to the past, there was, in appearance, every dis-
position on *lwo part of the Spanish Government to afford
redress. No delay konld be attributed ti Goveihment,
far they hail not beard onipsbirbarenp' transactions al-
:1 Jed to by Gie ?slicks until the month of arch in the
t year, anithet applied to the Spatittb Court
lately.—rrb. Noble Marquees here referred to his
we letter to theSpanishCotirt.deasaading satisfaction;
00 to the answer of the Spools\ Minister, stating that
the strictest order had been given for the purpose of ob-
taiciug a discovery of the offenders, ititb a view to their
pcnishment.l—They Noble Marquess proceeded to oh.
arrve. that the American 607PfeUtel/‘ whose subjects
had she suffered from these miscreants, felt the same
difficulty which bed met the English Government. He
trusted that the Loose would be satisfied that Mipisters '
were doing all in their pewee to Neste tbe &tore pro-
tection of English snbjects and theirptoperty, and to
`Olgeiiititidactioa for the past eastrige.—(Hear.)
Me. •BRIGIIT enntended, thilt-po persons who bad
committed these excesses ought to bktreated, at once, as i
piratet. • ' -
Mr. MARRYATT said, tie rentdlankation bctreete
the English end the Spanish Governments was undoubt-
edly eery polite: but be thought it would be perfectly
nugatory, as Spain had no power lafee her colonies. He
thought these 'depredations ought to he prevented by
English convoys which should protect the commerce of
all countries. The' question wits between 'society at
large en the one hand, and a act of outlaws on the other.
It was only yesterday that information had been Freely-
- id at Lloyd's (dike seizure of two mote English vessel.
by thesis marauders. The crews of these vessels, he un-
derstded had been erectly tortured. He really could see
no ohjsction to Egliiti men of war soling vigorously
without waiting for fattboraiiteissaiegtion from the,
Spanish Court. ' " • . rot,
.Srl G. COCKBURN said, the difficulty was that there
was no one of these vessels which had not a natioal cha-
racter io some papet, protection or comtninolon.
Gooersl GASCOYNE spoke in favour of the adoption
of forcible measures in the lost instance. Ile, however,
highly approved of the steady remonstrance of the Noble
Marquess.—(Hear.)

Sir J. MACK INTOfH said, ibis question deeply af-
fected our commercial interests, bat still more deeply it
affected oar maritime character. He was sure the Imam
would at all times he ready to support Abe Government
in their endeavours to obtain redress for the brutal out-
rages mentioned in the Petition. He thought that ap-
plications to the Spanish Court on the subject, would he
considered as merely complimentary, inasmuch as Spain
had but a nominal authority over her Colonies. But
this circumstance was an additional reason for the re-
cognition of the independent States.
111 r. CANNING said, the question at present was, how
long we should wait before we took the reuseily into our
• awn bands. He did not think that the time for action,
on our part, bad yet arrived ; but he thought it was not
far distant.
Mr. F. BUXTON thought the English Officer who
bad erred in the coarse of his duty, and suffered in
coasegneare of it, ought to he indemaifiesl.—(Hear,
hear, hear!)

The Petition was ordered to lie on the table, and be
printed.

CANADA DILL.

Mr. ELLICE presented a Petition from several bier.
chests of London, connected with Caaada, in favour of
MS Canada Union Bill. After some observations from
the Hoo. Member in support of the Bill,
Mr. HIMONT contended that the Bill ought not to be
pima In the present advanced state of the Session. He
tbosght it affected the rights of all our Colonies ; and
Is *et absence of the persons who were, he conceived,
to be injered by it, be would, in his place, protest against
this abominable measure, and offer It every resistance is
his power.
Mr. MA RRYATT spoke againit thF passioK et the
Btu until those who were interested in it should first be
cousulted.

Sir FRANCIS BURDETT thought great credit was
due to Ministers for the liberal manner in which they
bad taken op the present (potties sod be protested
against the harsh terms which- bad been applied to the
Bill.
Mr. BueaT and Sir FIANCIII BU&DCTT mutually ex-
plained.
Mr. WILMOT said. time was nothing whatever in
this measure tomtit, the expressions of the Hon. Mem-
her-(Mr. Bright.) •

3Tr :•-nl

THE S'fit.

itr. HUME did sot think the istrodoction of this Bill
at this period was justified;
Sit J. SIACKINTONH said, that be had likened this
Bill to that abolishing the Legislature of Masaachueete.
only becalm it was like it, an example of the may leer-
foresee of this Legislator's with the constitution of any
of her colonies. He did not compere them as to the
amount of their severity. His argument isadkodeoly
' bees osisconoeived; sad as to harsh epithets he bad esty
said it was stoat ioconveniest to pass this reason with-
out Kiwis( them an apportesity of declaring their lead-
meets. He had always been more friendly to the polls-
ter parts of our constitution than to any other. He
would always coattail that a distant petthad a right
to be beard before a great change was ed in their
interests and state; sod he was much surprised to hear
thpseotiments of the Honourable Baronet (Sir Preemie
Burdett), so different from those usually advocated by
him. When some change had formerly batmen& he
the state of Canada two years notice had been glass.
He for one protested against this Rill as vitiating Mit
solemn claims of the British Colonists. Ho had, wiess
it was first spokes of in the house, declared. that hie
objections were insurnsootitable, and be was thunders
astonished to hear it stated from the other side, that a
strong expreuion of his sentiment was beard with
surprise.
Mr. W. SMITH hoped these objections to the Bill
would not prejudice the printing of thb petition.
Mr. ELLICE said, that if he had been aware of the
sentiments of his lion. and Learned Friend(Sir .1. Mack-
intosh,) be would not have led his Majesty's. Govern.
meet so far as he had dune upon an oppeeite seppositios.
lie should really recommend that the Bill be divided
into two, and one passed this Session, and the ether in
the next.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH and Mr. ELLICE mutually ex-
plained.
Mr. DENISON made a few observations, which ware
mandible in the Gallery.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY pointed out the
difficulties of separating the Bill iuto two. He herwd,
however, that there was no other course left for thee to
take but to separate it, or give it up for the preset* Iles-
sion. He proposed, therefore, that one Bin ebeald be
made of the branch of the present for the incorporatios
of the two Canada Legislatures, and leave the other two
branches in a separate Bill to be passed this Sessioters.
lie very much feared that an opposttios resold be rased
in the next Session, which would porvent the push( of
the other Bill; bat under the tone of protestaleplriby
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he believed Ii WOW
scarcely be practicable to do otherwise than postpetta it.
But he must protest against the doctrine of Malkin. and
Learned fiend, that distant colonies could not be wisely
legislated for by the Mother Country.
Mr. WILMOT observed that it was the necessities of
the State of Canada that bad called forth the Bill this
Session.
Sir F. BURDETT regretted the course which was to
be adopted with regard to this Bill. The pro 'sled
change was a most beneficial one, and be tblu
objections to it were technical, and pressed WS'
scrupulous zeal.
Mr. BERNAL thought his lion. Friend (the Mast
for Westminster) ought to have attended in hisplare, a
convinced then' by his arguments when the Bill was dia:
cussed, rather than taunt the opposers of it with technis
cal objections.
After a few words from Mr. BRIGHT, the petition was
ordered to be printed.
Sir F. BURDETT presented a petition from H. Host,
complaining against the Prison Regulation Bill.—Laid
on the table.

COLOMBIAN REPUBLIC.
" Mr. LENNARD rose to brief before the -house the
motion of which he had gieee notice relative to the re-
cognition by this country of the Colombian Republic.
He made we apology to the house for trashing than
on this 'object. in consideration of its itoportance to that
interesting nation. He wished to know whether k was
thought necessary to obtain the permission of Old
Spain before this favour wen granted. He wished that
the whole of the circumstances relative So the new Re-

public should be fairly brought before Air bosim He
would not go through the history of the mmenst by
which theindependeoce of 2 millions of bad
been obtained from their unwilling earl Dice.
ter'. He believed it was completely accomplished, with
the exception of one fort, which was nut proceeded
against, from a desire to spare the useless shedding of
human blood. There was, therefore, nor:rose for oith-
holding that recognition of the rights of this republic,
which it would he so important for them to obtain. It
could not be Supposed that such a cause would he giving
k countenance and sippers to rebel bands against legit'.
mate Government. The South American states wen
tieelarly entitled to the recognition of this cee tory
see it was at our instigation that they had first genial
no to liberate themselves. He alluded to the ee„
iMe;g
emamendation of Mr. Modes in 1791 to the Bridals
Ciettsuls. There was beside., another coosideemidsoi
**kis was, that the was;
of Colombia had 4•4
eared that no nation should share in the hearfits of tad
cesnmerceof that country which did sot recognise her
ilietWeace. An one who bad been present as $
sir on this subject lately held, and speeded br W
many mercantile persons of eminence, could not fail to
be hitpressed with the importance to this coootry of se-
eyeing a portion of the commerce of Colombia. As as
iloglishnian he regretted that this cottony ha.l allowed
the United States of America to surpass her in the glory
of recognizing the freedom of the South American Co-
levies. He concluded that England had virtually re-
cognised the independence of these colonies. By the
treaties sibich Olds pain had also made with her, he
maintained that she bad dune the same. The Hoocnte
able Member concluded by moving for copies of all thei
mondani which had taken place between Mr. Zia
and the British Minister at Paris, and ....o the Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs, respecting the right of the?
Colombian tiovernment to be recogoised.
On the question being put,
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said that be I
hoped the house would not be induced to agree to the
motion of the Hon. Gent. unless it were prepared to fol-
low it up with souse ulterior measure. The correspond.
ence called for was entirely incapable of enabling the
bone to come to any decision on the general policy
which should govern this country in its conduct to
South America. lle could not approve of calling for
papers which related to matters which were nut yet ma.
toted, and of which there was yet so Imperfect a know-
ledge, owing to the extent of the subject and difficulty
of quick communication, that it would render a disclo-
sure at present as unwise, as it would be injurious to the
interests of the country. He protested against the doc-
trine that the conduct of the Oovernmeot of Spain
should be a precise rule to the conduct of the Deem-
ascot of this country. He hoped England would never
ran a race with any country in doing that which, with-
out a regard to other cireninstames, might eitberhe Its
interest or convenience. With the Information ha then I
had, be could not hope to make the disetassioalniellial-1
hie, or explain to the home the views of polier which '1
this G ant should perste towards Colombia. He
hoped this country would not be regulated by the toqm,
duct of Spoilt is the Aunt:rime war, and that !would*
rather actuated by a liberal spirit towards it in &menet*.
of difficulty. Our emote,' had carried the print:4l4g
recegsitioa toward' the South American States, to m
great as extent as our line of policy under resent eke,
cumstaisem woold !permit, It could not, t be
supposed that we bad shown my desire to prejndlco Le

-. , .

r,-

N..

the eligbtest derm the tights eel intermits of the
pie of &oaths A aerie'. He might, however. watered*
ay that the Hon. limiter was not se weltiohlemed.4.
the subject ea to he enabled to sly whether it wosU be
wfor as to Sena immediate iliplometie rtdatioesH
bo stater is ipreetioo. For himself bethought that
Oiewitiasseglie emit to be brought forward aides womb

...wire estimates were to he adopted as the necessary
mosequemse.
Sit JAMBS MACKINTOSH rose, and after some
prefatory obsetvetions, proceeded to argue that twit s
motion as tits present was perfectly consistent with the
image of Parliament. The object of his Hes. Prised
was *sly to ascertain the *piston of the Hoses wipes •
great political question, without baring any wish to tie
ino the hands of his Majesty's Government with rearm
to it. He costesiled that the recogaitios sought would
he 4:009011illat to this country, while it did not at the
maw time isvolve the slightest violation of the tights of
*isle. There was a manifest difference between a re-
cognition which was a renunciation of the claim of so-
vereigoty, as is the case of England towers the United
Statesof America, and a recognition by a State which
was completely disinterested sad indepentleM, as Bas-
hed sow was with respect to Spain and the States vf
Smith America. The Hon. and Learned Member then
@stored hens an historical view of a treaty of mot,
militia of the indepeedesee of Portugal by 'Bugleeti is
the year 1642; and next adverted to the declaration
of isdepeedeace by. the United Provinces in the year
1581, which was also recognised by Greet Beitain. No
&tenger proof of the espedienry of recognition amid
be adduced than that at the very time that Spain had
declared the United Provinces to be in a state of opes
mbellieo, we had sent Sir Ralph Winwood as our Mi-
litia, to these very provinces. Here thee was a prece-
dent which conspleteixesti6lished the fact that lei stield
keep cop a friesdly intercourse with Spain after we bed ea
cegaised the independence of a country that had freed
itself from her sovereignty, for we bad 4009 90 he
the time that the United Provinces had revolted. ,
ple ireple of recogoitioo did not necessarily involve .
prollearmet VI oar part of the cause that Lad given ri
11heimpontion between the mother country and bevels.
lemise. As the term recognition was now generally mak
Endes& it implied nothing but the fair and outlaw',
Alien** intercourse that took place between one stslo
aid asselier. All he wished to urge was, that the 14
tisk 'merchant trading to South America should not b•
placed in $ worm situation than the mercliaots of those
states which acknowledged the independence of South
America. Bet the BABA merchant must secessarily be
Platiod is a worse situation, while his Government,
sot recognising the same principles of independence,
Wed an indignity to the Clovers sent; in question.
Hon. and Learned Ideorhir next uniintaieed is au i
of this principle, that no charge had ever been br
against Franca for recognising the Government
Which Oliver Cromwell presided. The principle apes
which France acted in that instance was perfectly cow.
bramble to the law*/ nations. The hest •iaterests et
'llsgrlentil required that we *Weld one delay in formally
refigwisiog the Govern meets of South America. Our
ships to the South American Seas were under preset*
' circumstances liable m piratical attacks, and it was of
the utmost necessity that one merchants should kink
where to 'apply for redVess upon the broad principle' of
the Law ofNations. Tie Hon. and Learned Member
then commented rut the jealous caution with which •
British Government acted towards the States of Soot
America, and said it aright afford a iefficient reason: fo
any attacks which should be made es our commerce i
that quarter. And *ere- we, he would elk, 'to be
exposed to those attacks.; merely beeanse Spain?
sixty-seven years. of experiince, had not yet COIN 10 bee,
seams upon a subject which vitally affected. her 114
tercets Yet strange to siy we were at present, bat pf
courtesy to Spain, interdicting Ourselves, from Spatial
America. In fact, the policy wo plumed was ialcula
Ms every respect todisinelime tire booth American
from holding anyfrieadly isitereourse with ea • bias
these reasons he thought /kat the motion bad been tarn
preperly brought hy his 'Hos. Mead, and be temoseil
that his Majesty's Ministers would not prove theosseMsl
insensible to the toirtnentous conseqnences which itt is-!
volved.
Sir B. WILSON snpportpd the motion, and after eu-
logising the disinterested patriotismof General
said that the longer we delayed retogaisinf the
peodence of South America, the more Injurious would It
be for this country. He wished to know from the Nobite
Marquess whether this was purely a Riiiish question, or
whether it was fettered by the treatg which had beer
entered into at Aix-la-Chapelle, or by any other?
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said it was ne4
fettered by ally teeaty whatever, air hr any nitro.'
stance, except so far as our amicable' relatiolis collet
Spain were concerned, together with a just &Marian to
the law of omit's&
Dr. LUSIIINGTON said fist, on a former eressieso
,be had mile a statement, wirieWhad not treeis-081.4
by the Noble hlorriness, of a oegociatioo having begin
entered into unit France fee placing a Priem eif Sher'
Howse of Boathook on the throes at Barque Agee.,
now wished to know whether the answer given by I
French Government was cousistent with the honour'
this country.
The Jarquess of LONDONDERRY, in a low tope°,
voice, was understood to say that the French Govern:
went denied the existence of any sods negociatiee.
Mr. ALt /MYATT complained of the injury which
our commerce sustained in South America, in moose-
(owner of the line of policy width we had adopted.
Upon one occasion, a British vessel had hers captained
asJ taken into Lima by the Chili squadron, and the
only United States frigate then in the harbour tooktual
the plunder, in the very face ofa British Beet. '
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY knew nntking of
the partienlar case adverted to I y the Hon. Member;
bat be could twiner him, that the °leers of our army
were most vigilant in protecting British commerce, ea
were as efficient for the purpose as any diplomatist/
could he ender the circeinstances.
Mr. NA RH VATT„ in explanation, said that all tali
details hail been sent to the Admiralty. •
Dr. LUSH! xo.rox called the attentios of the
totbe circumstances of a South American cruiser willd.
bad been taken by one of eur ships as a pirate, having.
been claimed by the Kingof•Sproa, and that claim hay-•
iog been allowed.
• said Dr. PHI LLI MORE, said the claim bad heen made op
the ground of-this country having declared itself la;ts
in a state of neutralit y.
Sir O. COCKBURN said it was not easy to prove the
vessel was not Spanish property.
The house divided—For the motion, IS—Against its
53—Majority, 35. • •
After a abort conversatioe, In tise..irtuniir
Mr. Wit sanroptcs, mid the hisaposast Lostatesseatc•
participated, Mr. Wtawaseenes oememstod to poops
the amides, of white be bad ens 'Mire, to prevent t
intension of sinewy at the tiers of Good Hey* •
"Monday next. . 4.. nil. ‘1
coMmtrras or enlists, • e :
Mr. BROGDEN bionlthi4s4=4l4
twines of Supply, teataisitse eir •
roßaaeous Estikestes. . , ••• • • '
-
Oa clue Aetiologies Vai
• 1:411,4—
Mr. fIUME olojerisillhe Wes past so sir's**, ibs
kepis( snick . its 1arge..41141 Ramistiss, Isperiastr,anial
agetiti to.
•