The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-05-23 00:00:00

'EDNIESDAy-,MAY 23, 1821.

NEW NOV F.L.
This Day was publisbed, in 4 vols. 8,0. peke 11. Ba. bds.
THE SISTERS; i Novel.
London : Printed fee Baldwin, Cradovh. led JIPY.
Paternoster-row.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—Turstiv. Malt ItS.

GRAMPOUND.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented the Report
of the Committee on the Grampound Disfranchisement
Bill.—Laid on the table.
The Earl of CARNARVON moved that the Bill be
printed with its amendments, in order that their Lord.
ships might be is possession of the whole previous to
the third reading on Thursday.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE wished that the Bill
should net be hurried so rapidly through the House.—
From what he understood took place after he had re--,
tired last night, it was doubted whether the Freeholi-
ers of Yorkshire, Many of whom were quiet persons
who did not like election riots, or riots of any kind,
would approve of the additional representatives which 11
the present Bill was intended to impose upon their I
county. It would be just therefore to give them
time to petition against the measure, if they thought
proper to do so.
After a few words from the Lotto CHANCELLOR,
and the Earls of FITZWILLIAII and WtSTMORELAND,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL asked how the sentiments
of the County of York were to he collected and ex-
pressed? He had no doubt that many individuals
might be found in that County who would object to
the proposed addition to their Representation. But
that would be the case in every other place to which
the Representation might be given. Ile knew that
when itlwas believed that the Elective Franchise would
he transferred to Leeds, several persons in that city were
disposed to disapprove of the measure. The sag*
would happen at Manchester and Birmingham: bit
the duty of the House was to consider what was best
fur the interest of the country. Thi, lie con ceived,
would be best consulted by giving the additional Re-
presentation to Yorkshire ; as to its creating incon-
venience in that county, it was. his firm belief that the
contrary would be the case.
The Earl of DARNLEY hoped that the suggestion
made yesterday by a Noble anal Learned Lord on the
erosi.bench might be adopted, mill that two Members
might he given to the West Rifling of York, and lir
other two divided between the East and North Riding).'
Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought that the best
course which could have been pursued, would have
been to divide the Elective Franchise, and to give one
representative to Yorkshire and one to the County of
Lancaster.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL defended the Dill as it
now stood. With respect to giving the new Members
to the West Riding of York, that course could not be
pursued, as it would then become necessary to divide
Yorkshire into more than one County, and to let
each separate division have its sheriff and its sheriff 'a
court.
The Bill was then ordered to be printed.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a Petition
from the Douse of Assembly of Prince Edward',
Island, praying that no aleration might take place in
the Timber Duties.—Laid on the table.
The Marquess of LANSDOWNE preenteil a Peti-
tion from the Dissenting Protestant Ministers of
the three Denominations, in the Cities of London
Anil Westminster, praying for the revision of the
lie Criminal Code, and the mitigation of punishments.
—Laid on the table.
TIMBER DUTIES.
The order of the day 'or going into a Committee on
the Timber Duties Regulation Bill having hey!) read.
Earl itAniuttsT rose to state shortly to the
!louse, the general character and nature of the Dill.
In 1809, we had been excluded from every port of the
Continent, on account of the state of hostility which
existed between this country and all the European
powers. The Government of France, desirous of em-
barrassing our operations and crippling our means,
had even contrived to deprive us of all communication
with the rest of Europe, through the medium of neu-
tral vessels. Under these circumstances, we had been
thrown back upon our own resources, and it had be-
come necessary to draw from our North American co-
lonies those supplies of timber which Norway and Rus-
sia hail hitherto affords d us. For that purpose. en-
couragement was tube given to the one side, and with-
holden from the other. Wavy duties were therefore
laid on the importation of limber from •the
whilst that from oar colonies was le.l free. The
amount iif those ditties was 21. Is. per load of timber ;
whereas the former duty was only 6s. This, however,
had never been intended as a permanent arrangement,
and in 11+17, notice had been given of the intentions
of liovernuient to take the whole subject into re-con-
sideration, with the view either if laying a duty on
colonial timber, or of withdrawing the protection
which it still received from the large duties on timber
from the Baltic. The effect of this notice hat hero
to create an alarm among the persons concerned in the
colonial trade, sad to induce them to make large
portations of timber, without any additional demand
for that article; and when, on the contrary, the pre-,
existing demand was likely to diminish. In 1617,
before the notice had been given, the importation rums
our colonies had been 136,044 loads of fir timber. in
1810, after the notice had been issued, the impertation
of the same a. tide from the same quarter had risen
203,000 loads. In the some year also, without
NI apparent reason whatever, except a mistaken spi-
rit of speculation, there had been a consider-
able increase of importation of timber f.
wn
the Baltic. In 1817 the importation fru to boat
quarter had been 79,900 loads; in 11014.
it hail risen to 130,000. So that the general imp:
tation of timber in that single year, both from ou •
Colonies and from the B untoward to 333,1hi1i
loads, whereas in 1017 it had been only 216.000. le
the•insportation•fr3 is both ititarters ha l coon
need t‘i inc cas:. That frow, utt: Culuuics bixn

249,000 loads, and that from the Baltic 104,000.
snaking a total df 351,000 loads fur that single year.
He had stated these facts, to show, that during the
last few years, the Timber Trade had not been in a
natural, but in a forced and unusual state, on which it
would be fallacious and unfelt to found any argu-
ments. For the embarrassments created in that trade,
had arisen from excessive insportatkies nejestilled by
any demands, and could not be justly attributed to
,the state of the duties. The Noble Karl theft de-
oeribeil the want of proper gradations in the asionst
pig the duties on Baltic Timber, which had been no-
'deed by the Committee, and which the present Bill
was in part intended to correct. It had been found
that the ilaty was the same on planks eight feet in
length, as on those which were twenty. The amount
of that dear was 201. 15s. lid. on ever, hundred.—
Now the planks which came from Norway were geae-
fatly fifteen feet in length. and those from Peters-
Await twenty, so that an unfair advantage was gives
to the latter. A lower dn:y had also been laid small
planks below eight feet, under the impression that
they were of a very inferior description, and formed
no article of trade. In order, however, to avoid the
higher duty, planks had been imported a little
below eight feet, and had become a considerable
article of trade. The present Bill contained pew
visions to meet all those cases. The existing duties
on planks below eight feet was 7/.: it wiIIIMPW pro-
posed to raise it to ti/., and to make it apply to all
planks below six feet. From six to sixteen feet, the
duty would be 19/. ; and from 16 to 21 feet 4221.--
II
The duty on planks 16 feet long, was intended as a
relief to the Norway trade, which would now pay
11. 15s. ".1. less on every hundred, than it had hither-
to been obliged to do. With respect is the compara-
tive duties on Colonial anal Baltic timber, the cow
millet bad certainly admitted the principle that thesis*,
sod other articles ought to be procured where they
I could be got cheaper and hest, hut taking into consi-
deration the circumstances under which our Colonial
Timber Trade had arisen, it had thought that some
protection and enconragement should be cot:tinned to
it it a time, and that the only duty laid upon it at,
heat, should not exceed the amount taken off from the
Baltic Timber. In proposing this, however, it was
by no means intended that the arrangement should be
permanent. lie wished it to be clearly understood
that his Majesty's Ministers were not to lw considered
as pledging themselves to maintain it in force any
longer than it should appear expedient. It was to he
regarded as a subject lit, at all times, to be revised,
and consequently liable to alterations. He did INK
Mae that it should be altered at the expiration et
Uwe or four years, but after a fair lapse of time. His
Lordship then entered into seasedetails respecting t;so
Oa of limbic Timbee in forme, years when the duty
was only 6s. a load, and latterly when it amounted to
3/. 55., and showed that since the encrease in the duty,
the price of the article bad only risen 1/. Ile con-
cluded by recommending to their Lordships to move
with caution in a case where great interests were con-
cerned, and where, if they amnia hastily extinguish
the colonial trade, they would afterwards find much
difficulty in reviving it. At the same time the taking
off of los. front the duty on Baltic Timber, anal laying
a duty to the same ansouiit on timber from our Colo-
' 'lies, would n.l injure their trade. By the last ac-
counts tile Laitic timber was getting up in price in
consequence of the proliabi;ity that the present Bill
wonid pass. This rise would be advantageous to oar
colonies, and in ail likelihood wonld counterbalance
the effect of the tilterations which it wits proposal to
make in the:tittles. Ile then moved that the House
resolve itself into a Committee.
'rite Earl of LAI 'HERHAt.I3 sail, he should not
trouble their Lordships at great bengal in the state
in which the Hon• e was, which, considering the para.
oto.mt importance of the question, was to him surpris.
ing. It had :wen the wise policy of the eituntry till
loll:), not to tax timber at all. The evil, therelme,
eoitl•l not is %VC taken Jeri, root, and when 'Lev
learnt from esp. rierae, that the elect of that system
of tacation was to tore* hail timUer upon them at a
high prier, lie word that their Lordships would
not hesitate to apply the axe directly to the rout.—
It had been proved before a Conitnitteeof that House,
that American timber was a very inferior article
tat the Norway tinitser. 'I he difference in volt'e of
these two articles mieht he estimated by the answer
of one of the witnesses at the Bar of that Hesse, who.
when asked what he would recommend a customer to
give fur the fellow of a holm built in London with
Norway timber, value 6100/. the honer to he purchased
being built of American timber, answered, that he
could not in his conscience recommend any one to
purchase it at any price. The fact was, that the inns
position of these duties was neither more nor less than
a colonial 'tab. It was in direct op:onition to the
recommendation of the Reports of the Committee of
that House on Forrien Trade then on their table,
which directed them to obtain all articles from the
places where they were to he got best and cheapest,
without reference to the place. So far from acting on
this wise principle. they had actually offered a bounty
for a ii ttl article. It was unjust anal ungrateful to-
wards Norway, who. notwithstanding our prtscription
of their productions by high ditties, hail scarcely made
any alterati ,n in her duties on our commodities;
whilst the favaated Russia ever sirre the t•e..re had
followed up a regular syst!•ni of restrictive 411.4..4 to-1
wards this country. He knew that although this
Report to which be alluded contained some of the
most alis.trd principles of legislation, also contained'
in some cornt.: or another some of the most sensib:e
notions on the subject that bad ever been broached.
'I he true common sense of the getable was, that we
should make use of those treasuries which the bounty
of nature afforded us in the Hoarser most at hand
and when that was exlmusted, go further off. It was
colder:tied in support of the present system, that it
was in favour of the shipping: and 'oder& the Report
on the table laid it down slistiestly that the shipping
lamest was the principal one centime'. So that for
the s•tp;fort of 4 no:11:1fT of notes transports unfit tit
t ani titing t.ut fluilier, the country seas to !tare

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