The Liverpool Standard, and General Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1854-10-31 00:00:00

•
further legislation in reference to the Pike scheme may he
sanctioned by the Council, until a complete and opinquiry
and report on the following points shall have been ordered
and obtained, for the satisfaction of .the burgesses at large,
namely
_ 1. What progress has been made in the carrying out of the

Pike schede?
2. What has been the cost already incurred, and under-
taken to be incurred, in reference to the works, so far as the
same have been carried out, or undertaken to be carried out?
3. What is yet required to perfect the scheme?
4. By what means or agency is such additional work to be
effected ?
5. At what additional cost, if additional cost be anticipated,
is it proposed to carry out such additional work?
6. And, generally, why any new powers in connexion with
the scheme, either as to deviation of the pipe line, or other.
wise, should be demanded ?
Respectfully and confidently relying on the acquiescence
on the part of the Council in these reasonable demands, in-
volving as they do such important results to the ratepayers,
your memorialists will ever pray.

JAS. IL JEFFERY,
JOHN SMITH.

Mr. EARLE : There are so many " Smiths

" Smith" is it ?
A VOICE : Jack-in-a-box. (Laughter.)
Mr. Alderman BENNETT : Your old friend. (A laugh.)

' What

(A laug

Mr. EARLE : I am perfectly satisfied.
Mr. BENNETT, in a lengthy speech, condemned the
whole scheme, contending that they had been quite long
enough in the hands of Mr. Hawksley ; that they ought
now to inquire into the whole matter for themselves. If
the committee felt disposed to go with Mr. Hawksley the
whole length, twisting and turning with him, he thought
the council should put a stop to the further progress of
the works until they made themselves acquainted with
their position. They were told that this application was
for a deviation of the pipe-line, and " for other purposes,"
under which general terms, he apprehended, lay hidden
all they had to fear. It was absurd to suppose that a few
chemical deposits could, in these days of scientific attain-
ments, place an effectual obstacle to their carrying the
pipe-line in a particular direction. He reminded them
that there had already been three previous acts—this being
the fourth—all of them directly or indirectly repairing
and correcting the blunders, mistakes, and miscalcula-
tions of their engineer.
Mr. EARLE : These are strong assertions.
Mr. BENNETT : They are true.
Mr. EARLE : That is as people think.
Mr. BENNETT, for the purpose of bearing out his ani-
madversions, referred to the reports of Mr. Hawksley in

the early history of the Pike scheme, contrasting them
with his subsequent statements. In 1851 he (Mr. Hawks-
ley) " wheedled " the committee—
Mr. EA.RLE (tartly) : Did what, sir ?
Mr. BEIFNETT : " Wheedled." _

Mr. EMILE 7 I was a member, sir, of that committee,
and . I will not be insulted by observations from you, sir,
or any other gentleman.

Mr. Alderman BENNETT did not wish to implicate the
committee as knowingly being parties to the great blun-
der, but what he meant to say was, that they trusted too
much to Mr. Hawksley, considering him to have too much
integrity and honour to deceive them.
Mr. HOLT : You should suggest a remedy.
Mr. BENNETT : And so I would, sir, but the whole is
so bad that I fear it cannot be patched up. (A. laugh.)
Referring subsequently to the suggestion in Mr. Hawks-
ley's letter with respect to the Chorley company, he
maintained that these things should be left to the common
sense of the Council, and not to the dictation of one in-
dividual. They were told that the Chorley Water-works
went under their reservoir. What then ? Aye ! " there's
the rub !" The Chorley people took the best water from
the other side, which we ought have in Liverpool. He
said "best,"—but bad was the best, as the people of
Chorley knew to their cost. There was an entangled web
connected with the Chorley scheme, and the more they.
looked into it 'the worse it would be. It was, therefore,
far better to ascertain their real position at once. The
whole scheme had been a series of misconceptions : it was
the most unfortunate affair that had ever been brought
under discussion in that council chamber. That the ori-
ginal estimate would be greatly exceeded he had no doubt ;
one cause, which' was said to lie in the levels having been
erroneously taken by Jackson, necessitating alterations
that 'would cause a very great additional outlay. •

Mr. EARLS.—Now, Mr. Bennett, we shall have some
observations to make ; we can't let you say everything
yourself. (laughter.)

Mr. Ilonsoi.—l don't wish to interrupt you, Mr.
Bennett, but

hprNETT (peremptorily.) Then, sit down

(laughter.) ' _ _
Mr. JAMES HOLME thought that if they were to adjourn
the discussion to the Rivington Works they would soon
all become of a mind.

-
Mr. BENNETT, in continuation, contended that a full
inquiry would place that poor and much-injured man, Mr.
M`Donald, in a true light before the Council.
Mr. BrGuA3r.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BENNETT.—However that man's predictions had
been slighted by many, they had been borne out, and more
than borne out by facts; and he (Mr. Bennett) enviedthe
the poiition of the injured man much more than the
eminent hydraulic cn„-,:neer who was carrying out
these works. (Hear, hear.)' M`Donald had frequently
asserted that, at a very trifling expense they could
obtain an abundant 'supply from their own red sand-
stone ; and experience had borne out that assertion,
as the supply from that source, instead of decreasing year
by-year, as predicted by Mr: Hawksley, had year by year
increased. (Hear, hear,) He had been informed that the
Corporation had been offered a large sum of money, either
by Manchester or Bolton, to take these works 9ff their
hands, and he thought it would be highly -desirable that
sueh an opportunity should not be allowed to slip away.
He concluded by moving " That the town-clerk be in-
structed to take such preliminary steps as are absolutely
necessary preparatory to an application to parliament for
the purposes proposed; and that no further expenditure
be incurred in the prosbcution of such application until a
return is laid before the Council, in accordance with the
prayei of the memorial presented this morning." (Hear,
hear.) That memorial, though only signed by two per-
sons, he was convinced, represented the general feeling
and wish of the town. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. BiGgAM seconded the imendMent without remark,

Mr.* W. EARLS regretted'that he would be compelled
to listen to a lecturer in whose nostrums he had no• faith,
becanse,'on 'one occasion,.in his calculations, he made the
town of Prescot as high asMont Blanc. (Laughter) The
misfortune they had to deplore was the squabble in the
town : that had caused the whole mischief, in which Mr.
Bennett, and several others he could place his finger on,
were prominent performers. That squabble resulted in a
very full inquiry into the merits of the scheme; and when
such men ass. Stephenson, and other eminent engineers,
had declared it to be a valuable scheme, and worthy
to be proceeded with; he thought they would 'not
place too much confidence in Mr. Bennetes opinions.
Mr. "Hawksley had fallen under that geritlemin's censure; •
but he thought the only thing in which Mr. HawkSley
was to blame was, for not declaring positively that he
would not be responsible for the work unless the contracts
were placed in the hands of able and practical men. He
had no doubt 'that the Rivington works would have been
finished,' and that they would have had the water in the '
town, four or five years ago, had it not been for their own
:squabbles. (Hear.) Strenuous exertions were made to
have the,,works under the management of the private
coMpany ;•and it would ultimately have proved a most
advantageous speculation to the parties engaged in the
undertaking. (Hear, hear.) As such, he advocated it as .1
being a good thing for the town of Liverpool; and the
day would yet come when this would prove to be the case.
(Hear, hear.) As for Mr. Bennett, he would not give a
pinch of • snuff for his opinion.. For goodness sake ! let
theni have no more speeches from that gentleman on the
subject •of water supply, for he unhesitatingly declared
that he knew nothing 'about it. (Laughter.) , That the
red sandstone was not to be depended upon, was just now
being proved in London, where the wells of the great
porter brewers were on the decline, and they were sup-.
plied from the same source. (Hear, hear.) Much had
been, said about the-large well at Green-lane. •No doubt
they' had a good supply there ; but how obtained; why,
at the expense of the whole neighbourhood, for they had
drained the whole 'country, in the district, of water, in
Order to supply the town of Liverpool. '(Heer, hear.)
'Mr.-JAMES HoLmn was-sure the events of 'the last few
days must have taught them all a very severe lesson ; for,
notwithstanding they had a very ample supply- of water
(at the.. fire), he believed that, to obtain it, they had been •
obliged to deprive a large number of the inhabitants of a
daily.waut. For himself, as a practical man, he should
I be sorry if the council at the eleventh hour threw impe-
' diments in the. way of this great work. ,It was only.
necessary, for members to visit the place to be satisfied,-
'notwithstanding the eloquence of Mr. Bennett upon a
scientific subject, of the necessity of proceeding vigorously
with the works, in order that they might have the water
supply as soon as possible. If it was thOught.desirable
to get rid of the works, he believed that overtures would
speedily be made, by whichthey might get £2 .for every
1 they had expended upon them. (Hear, hear.). He
wi convinced that, if flo impediment were thrown inthe
way, the works would be completed to the satisfaction of
the council, and the town at large: - (Hear, hear.)
Mr. 13iGium thought the 'terms of the amendment
were so reasonable, and would so little interfere with the
worki, that he could not anticipate any opposition to it
on the part of the Council. 'He reminded them that Mr.
Hawksley had committed himself to two opinions as to
the red sandstone; the first being with respect to Liver-
Pool; that the red sandstone rock was insecure as a
basis for a 'water supply. Ever since that assertion
was made the Supply . from that. source had increased,
the only.difficulty at Green-lane now being the excessive
supply.of the water. The second opinion. was delivered
' by, Mr. Hawksley, when called in to-assist, the ratepayers
of St. Helen's. He advised them to dig to the red sand-
stone rock, and they would have enough of water for their
present or any future supply- (Hear, hear.) The antho-
rities of St. Helen's sank a well 60 feet, and they had
'since been absolutely overwhelmed with water. (Hear,
hear.) There were several weighty 'questions involved in
this matter, not' the least important being-Could the
water. be' conveyed without accident to 'Liverpool, and if it
"could, and when it was brought, would the people.drink
it ? (Hear, hear.)

Mr. J. A. PIcTo3l spoke in favour of the amendment,
taking exception to Mr. Picton's sweepingmode of criticism.
Mr. ,Tholtsor hoped the chairman of the committee
would agree to the amendment
liodso controverted the arguments of Mr. Bighom.

Mr. Alder Man PAIZIER, opposed the imendment,- as
likely to impede the whole works: He had the greatest
e in the- result, believing that when the works
ideent 'reservoir would not be

found in her Majesty's &Minions.
Mr. WOODRUFF, as a member of the Water Committtee,
having no secrets to conceal, and believing that inquiry
vould eventuate in stillgreatcr confidence in the scheme,
lendment.
of the scheme,

had h

:13; x, though hitherto an aavoc
d so much about the supply of Water to be
from the red sandstone', that he thought the
arrived when they should obtain all the:hi.
i they could. He should, therefore, vote for the

Hr. iitnYinouGH observed that the committee had
.eady borrowing powers to the extent of £480,000, 'and,
)ther,

crely the pr(
borrowin

they should have

~lxsov

ewers, thought
full explanation from the Water Com-
, therefore, support the amendment.

s a mem

'of the committee, had no

?ction to the amendment.
13.iNNEA loped the councilwould adopt the ameud-