The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-05-18 00:00:00

Tflit StATESMAti.

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'which the Roue bed Toted to the puke of Bruns-
wick.
Mr. MARTIN` puts reition to the Chancel-
lor of thee Examiner across the table, with re-
spect to the Register of the 4dmiralty, which the
latter answered, but both spoke in so low a tone
that no one could distinctly understand them.
TIERNEY stated, that as the Bill for ap.
prOptiStititheidrplus produce of the Stamp Du-
ties vreuld, he understood, be read a second time
on Tuesday, be should then take occasion to make
some obtervations upon the subject; and also move
l'ttr the appointment of a Committee to inquire into
the general state of thee, Consolidated Fund.
. ,
FINANSV. 1113110.10UT10N9.
The-House hiviug, en the motion of Mr. Mar-
tin, resolved into a Committee upon the Third Re.
port of the Finance Committee.
Mr. BANItES rose, and melted the reading of
the second Resoletioe, which being read accord-
ingly, the kronourable Gentleman expressed his
intention of moving an Amendment. It had been
ohierved by, stony Gentlemen, that Sinecure Of.
Aces ought not 'to 'be abolished until some other
fund should be created, from which his Majesty
'might be enabled to niake that provision for long
sand efficient public services which those occasions
afforded. Nov. the object of his proposed Amend-
ment would be to couple the abolition of sinecures
with the substitution of such a fund—and in do.
ing so, he hoped to render the measure of aboli-
tion more acceptable to his Right Hon. Friend
(the Chaocellor of the Exchequer), and to the
Committee. Indeed, he thought that the sub.
stitution should take away all objections to the
abolition, while there could be no doubt of its be-
ing toorp agreeable, not only to the country,' but
to such meritorious Officers as were entitled to re.
ward. For the real tact was, that sinecures had
fallen so much into disgrace, perhaps frees their
misapplication, but certainly from a general suspi.
scion that they were disposed of rather according
to the influence of favour than of merit, that a
certain degree of disrepute attached to those who
accepted them—that in truth a brand or mark
was Axed upon them. Therefore, those offices, in.
stead of conferring honour, the people so much
revolted against them, actually attached a stigma.
To take away that stigma then from the fair ob-
jects of public bounty, it was necessary that a
fund should be created in lieu of those sinecures,
and also to remove the anomaly which belonged to
the very principle of having Officers in the Veveipt
of salaries tvithout any duties annexed to them.
After panegyrizing the system upon, which our re.
venue was collected, which he contended was
Much cheaper than that of any ether nation in Eu.
rope, the Hon. Gentleman proceeded to press
upon the attention of the Committee the propriety
'of establishing every practicable degree of eco-
nomy. It was with that view he particularly re.
'commended the adoption of the Measure, he felt it
his ditty to propose. Ile would not be under-
stood to expect that by any measure of this nature
the clamour of certain persons could be satisfied.
Those persou were in fact nut to he satisfied by any
thing which that House could or ought to concede.
This ho was extremely sorry to see. But it could
never be argued that, because certain factious poi..
sins put forward extravagtut demands, that the
House should not do what was reasonable—that
Parliament ii4ould not accede to whatever was fit
and proper. . These clamours\ bad their flux and
reflex, but it was nptorious that they had no
lanced) ap the proposition under discussion,
which, its fag)," far as regarded the abolition of
risecures,lo trn origin before such clamours were
holed. lie tirstd, therefore, that whatever might
Id `the conduct of the ..factious, the Committee
iroisid never lose sight of the propriety of con.
iultiug the wishes and cultivating the good dispusi.
r ifoit of the sound and rational part of the commit.
nity, Who irould, be had no doubt, be materially
,concilietsel,4lo the adoption of s measuro so
long aW so unanimously called for—that of
tbas abolition of sinecure offices. It would be
Oreposterou to oppose to such a desirable measure'
any idea Of reverence fur old establishments,
fur it was impossible that these 'sinecure offices
'Could have been originally established without any
duties' attached to them. The Committee would in
fact only ,repair the injurierof dinky abolishing
such 'Offices. He therefore hoped for a general
acquiescence in his motion, which was grounded
upon the principle of moderate Reform, and which,
while it did away obnoxious offices,. would esta-
blish a fund in their room, calculated to answer
every olijitt which thou who pleaded for the ex-
Waite of such' offices ,nrofessed to have in view.
The Honourghle Member ouncluded with props
sing, the Amendment he, described.
Mr. MARTIN said, that however much he felt
disposed to prefer. his original Resolution, still he
would vote foe the Honourable Geatleman's
Almaden:et, If the abolition of Sinecure Offices
4 were proposed without any substitute it should
:certaintritarrhis.support.- But as Om, latter ap.
'peered to he • mop acceptable to tine opinion of
the Committes,,as k was his wish to hate some-
thing done iirthe telt', of reform, and as he. would
!be always leafy to reeeiveall that he could obtain,
if he could not obtii.:4ll,that he desired, he
would even accept the Renewable Gentleman's
Amendment, glad the even so much good should
'result from the discussion which he had thought it
his duty to bring forWaed. 'ripe Honourable Gen.
demo argued with cousiderable force in support
of his original Resolutions, contrasted with those
proposed by the Chancellor .of the. Exchequer,
and concluded with observing, that in propel'.
ing the abolition of Sinecure Ofilep, it could
not be said that he was bringing forward any now.
tangled doctrine, as that, abolition was to fact re.
commended by high authority 30 years ago, and
Indisputably it was more than even necessary to
accede to it under the present circantitimicts of the
country.
Mr. LONG maintained, that- considering the
depreciation of money since his Majesty's access
sloe, the influence of tie Crown had not is.
tressed from the places at its disposal. He saw
!no advantage that could result • from the adoption
of the original motion, or his HOuourableFriend's
Amendment. Sinecures ought, is his judgment,
to be confined solely to civil officers, and therefor,

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he combated the idea of grerillitg 'is'k sinecure to
Lord Wellington or Lord Nelson.
Lord ALTHORP .teas alkeicate for the
.amendment, although- his opinion was
rather in
:favour of the original Resolutions. He atserted -
that the influence of the Crown had increatkd in.
somuch, that in order to preserirethe balance of
'the Constitution it was desirable that that influence
should be reduced. Therefore the total abolition
of Sinecures would meet his approbation. As a
means of rewarding meritorious services, which
was the alleged plea for' the exiatetice of these Si.:
were', he thought them peculiarly unsuitable;
and for two reasons : first, because when the me-
ritorious service should recur which called for re-
ward,* it was improbable that a Sinecure Office
would be vacant; and, secondly, because it was
improbable that such Office would be a fit reward
' for such service.
• Mr. W. SMITH contended that the abuses
in the Grants of Sinecure Places preponderated
over any advantage which the Country could de-
rive from their contiaeasice. If the claims of the
individuals on whom such favours were conferred
by the Crown had first to undergo the decision of
that House, there existed strong doubt whether
they world be admitted ; indeed it was problems-
tient dot if -the persons about to confer them were
aware of the necessity of •subjecting them to the
discussion, whether such a proposition would be
at all made. The Honourable Member entered
into a history of authorities open the question,
and concluded with expressing his determination to
support the original Resolutions.
Mr. BASTARD declared it absolutely neces-
sary for the extended patronage of the Crown,
and extended burthens of the people, to follow
up the priuciplo of retrenchment in every depart-
ment of the State. There was a ferment abroad;
and the surest way to disarm those actuated by
improper hopes was to afford reasonable indul-
gence to the great body of the people. The fer.
meat existing had not a stronger source of sup.
ply than in the thought, that whilst Committees
of that House were suggesting many plans of eco.
nautical reform, as absolutely necessary, the
House was in the uniform habit of not only not
attending, but of actually overruling their seg.
gestions. Ile concluded with observing, that even
if the House was not iodised to be lionestlrom
principle, the time was now come whets it 'lmola
be so from necessity.
Mr. WHARTON asserted that the influence
of the Crown had of late actually diminished.
He founded such diminution of the influence of
the Crown upon the great increase of popula.
lion, and the enormous increase of wealth, so,
very generally diffused throughout the various
classes of society in this country. He also in.
stanced the great price at which lands were let,
and which corn bore. •
Mr. WHITBREAD said, the speech of the
Hon. and tearnedSecretary of the Treasury (Mr.
Wharton), was a repetition of what he understood
was said by him over and-over again in the Com-
mittee-room up stairs. Indeed it was more appli-
cable to any other subject, than the one on
which it was introduced; it would suit a discus-
sion upon the assize of bread much better than
therestriction of' the grants of the Crown. pear,
hear!) With respect to these sinecures, tae
country had but our opinion ; from the system of
favouritism pursued!, and the abuses visible in the
way hi which they were conferred, scarce a man
out of the doors of that House could be found
their advocate. They were not suited to the taste
of the arw, nor to the navy'; but in the ian.
guago of. thu Honourable Secretary, they were
fitted for the civil departinent—that was for such
efficient public, servants as the Learned Secretary
himself. Mr. Whitbread next advertell to the
grant recently mule to Mr' Yorke, and con..
tended that the public were not alone disgusted
with such grant, but that from such an iltustra.
Lion every sinecure grant became an object of pub-
lic aversion. Such opinions had been expressed
in that House very generally, and he had himself
heard the present Secretary for Ireland (Mr. W.
Pole) and a Colonel (Wood) of one of the Mid-
dlesex regiments had stated that for their public
services, whenever it should be thought fit to re-
ward them, they would never condescend to take
a sinecure office. Numerous were the evil erects
arising from such grants, and not the less consi.
derahla one was that these sinecures prevented the
necessary increase to the great efficient offices of
the state. What was the argunienradvanced in the
favour of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when it
was in contemplation to give him the Chancellorshiti
of the Duchy of Lancaster for life? It was then
contended that the salary of the first office was not
a sufficient remuneration for its duties: It was
however to be presumed, now that the same
Right Honoorable teutleman was also First Lon !
of the 'recovery, that he would not condescend to
take that of the Duchy. (4 eststesur). I iltuf
(said Mr. Whitbread) that Linn wring, interstitial'
as I now understand that the •Right Flonottitibid
Gentleman hest, by a Minute bf Treatiittit igeti-
fied his determination not to MLR fhinalaii an-
nexed to the Office' of the Chancellor of the 'lx.
chequer; I only hope, that thli newly appiiiiited
Teller of tisoltarchequer, rievetlike he is elerited
.0 the Admiralty,' will imitate smith an example;
.114 whilst he continues Lord of the Admiralty,'
almit ho will refrain from taking tip the profits of
'Ms sinecore. Mr: Whitbread concluded with es!'
praising his regret, that the Rbsolutionk,weri
founded. Ile would, however, eote'tor
!Ilion, in any shape, of end tn.nnetroutilkfde.'
bons. e I- • . • .ftninc.•
'Mr. LONG said a few driitals 100 stlii mi.
Lion.•
The CHANCELLOR Of 'fith'inteffEQUEß
warmly denied that my real adrititsige Would be
',tined to the people by the attendee of such
places. Ile also begged to assere'llip latilSpeaker,
that his respected Friend, the Lord eift.the Admi.
raity, than whom no man weenierd respectable,
had also signified his intention; withatioy oaten.
tatious'object, not to take thesueieftoOW. grant-
ed to the Lord of the Admiralty, during the Admi.
nistration of Lord Melville, as the 'head of that
Board. He contended against Waving it to the
House to judge of the compensations to be granted'

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