The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-03-06 00:00:00

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"I.' and without reference to any other an.
,
..tltr It was an iseontrovertible principle of
etoastitution, that that Could not bo utsconsti.
anal agahist which the Constitution possessed
Ms gaard. Meutaters were responsible for any act
olthe Crown i: but for advice.not carried into*:
lifts they were' *tot responsikk. The law did n$
&tow that Oil should be (rsponsible. Wisely,
therefore, to gifer advice to the Sovereign was out
Soeoastitistiotial, becaus. thetConatitution dill not
afford any guard against each p.circoinstance by
rettileArg the intlisid4rwlio urered it responsible.
Diu Diukile•Lool, 111% Peer and a Privy Counsel.
tar, had a right to have iseCess to his Majesty. ,If
alti
the advice conveyed to his Majusty'i ear was acted
upon, it could only be so settled upon tomtit's.
tionally througls*the medians of a responsible Mi-
nister. Therti was the cheeks. Then was the
proper and constitutional 'rusponsibilky. It af.
(tacit him by whom the act was done, dot him by
whom the advice might have been given. The
former was ostensible ; the latter it might he diiii. I
cult to trace. In the course of the present discus_
shin, mu! of former discussions on subjects colt:
towed with it; a greet deallliaol been said of
secret ingnence. At an early period of his life,
on the commeoeenoutot indeed of his political life,
he had also heard a great deal ahoyt secret lotto..
euee. At that period be had nut .'ie means of 1
knowingdOetlaste.the clamour was true or false.,
The illustrious Statesman, father_ of the Nablel
Lord, had anquesiieilably given to that clatnauti
the stamp of his great authority, and had render.
ed it more current. From many purlieus however
who were *ell qualified to judge upon the subject,
he had hoard much disbelief expressed as to the
existence of this secret influence. He realty did
nut him te.if possess the means of ascertainin4 its
existence; bu.t even it it did exist, the Constitu-
tion atfoithal no remedy against it. If there were
Ministers so base at to hold responsible situations
under irresponsible . advisers, huwever,great 'the
clameur height los against those advisers, and
even however great the mischief that their ad:
vice might occasion, the Constitution afforded no
.Means by which they 'could be punished; theve-.
sponsible Ministers alone being liable by the Cott.
stltation to punishment. for the acts committed by
'theM.l At the same time he begged to disclaim
!any approbation of site!, underhand transactions.
But it was itelispensitde to se.l what the Coslitu-
tion was 'woe the subject, and by Cite Constitu-
tion to abide. , If his Majesty's retopsible Mini.
aster s were guilty of improper conduct, the noose
of Commons might address-his Mujesty to rempve
thitto ; but no atidress.ef the !louse could touch
Alty individual who was not a responsible Minister.
Recurring to the case in -question, he contended
that if the charge against the Noble Lord in the
proposed resolutions was not distinctly• made
'ont —if it was not proved, that his conduct had
'been. clearly unconstitutional —nay, if there was I
the sligiorest•ddubt 'toper, the subject, it would. be
an net of the .greatest injustice t I adtopt on-solicits
invoking in it Some serious consequences to the
party accused.
,It was by the Noble Lisetrs Wish
that his narrative had h 'en moved for and pre-.,
seated to. the House. That narrative had certaiii.
. . ..
ty placed .his Lorti,ltip in .an incohozotent situa.
hon.. .If he had instead hein eitemimed at the
'lee oat' the palms tit ividtk ft •retttell, 4,is stele.
anent?, in his owto defence 'wodlil perhaps have
been more excusable ; and . after all, the naria.
tire duly stated so hat the Noble Lord had done,
and called upon the other service to captain the
circuntetances of which he was igeorant. -It would
indeed be most unjust, if, for any error of judg.
omit in the mode of doing this, the Noble Lard
Arnold he subjected to a censure so heavy as that
which the proposed Resolutions conveyed.-,-if
any additional proof were requisite that the into.
victual advice of a Minister to his Sovereign' was
not unconstitutional; it might be found in the.'
conduct, en a, certain occasion, of a man too
warmly attached to the Constitution to violate it ;
he meant Mr. Pitt, who, on that occasion, wash
closeted with Ms Majestywhile his Colleagues were
kept in the anti.room. „ , .
Lard TEMPLE declared, that it had seldom
fallen :to his lot to hear a speech so foil of moat
extraordinary and unconstitutional doctrine as that
or the Honourable Gentleman who had preceded
him. if, had not conceived the possibility that
at any time, and much less at the present time,
such a dbctrine would be broached. The Honour.
stbie Gentleman considered Au conduct of the
Noble Lord justified' by hii right as a Privy Coen.
seller to advise his Majesty: , He also had said that
the Cabinet Council was chotly unknown to the
Constitution, and which had (originated in a cabal..
Certainly it was nnknown to the Constitution*, but
would the Honourable Gentlemen contend that
the Members of it, called as they were to act in
the King's confidential service, ought not to pos-
sess the confidence of opt apstbsr ?. Wools) he
cotottinalhat those who were to advise his Ma.
jesty ought not to advise with one another ? Be.
sides, at the time of rho cabal in which the Cabi.
net Council originated, the Privy Counsellors were
the constitutional advisory Of the King. The ca.
bap was composed of four aversion% united on. the
principle of secrecy to advise his Majesty, with-
out a communication with the Cabinet at large.
Ott • that occasion Sir William Temple recant.
mended George 11. to take the advice of the
Privy Council, and to .overturn_ the cabal ; yet
this cabal was adduced by the Honourable Got.
tleman as a constitotionat justification of the Noble
laneil's conduct. He adduced that against which
the, Constitution protested—he adduced it as an ex,
ample for the lioase,atel as on excuse fur the Nu.
610 bird.. The Hon. Gentlensait was of opi-
nion that ;Helen the advice riven to his Maje'sty
' were acted upon, the adviser could not be pu.
nisbeil. Against that principle he (Lord T.) pro.
kited; he thanked Pod he could nut agree with
the,Ronottrable Gentleman _in his opinious of the
.Coastitutiou. • The Constitution was nut regu.
latud by al written law—it was regulated by
practice, and nuthjug could be more contrary to
its practice than theta Privy Counsellor might at.
tempt to poison the 14,oyet mind, and . that if thy
flueettlgto shoelil -nut he so weak as to. allow his
mind 'to be poisoned,. that the Pi.itty,c oututellor
glOcisikt.Ook be resplansibfq -for bl, attempt. ..ifer
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his part it could scarcely be necessary take. I,
he was not actuated by any fueling hestee't'e "at
lloblo Lord. lie had many reasons for
whet
toning sentiments with respert to him, 411)Posir -0
those of hostility. If the charges preferred
against the Noble Lord had afrected his pe„oe-‘e'
and private conduct, however heavily they ter-hl
have pressed upon ben, he (Lord T.) should c„-
bowed his head in silence, and only lamented th -.4
existence. But the present charge at against the
Noble Lord as a Minister. It was his duty to sowc
'port it. What he complained of was, the i
Noble Lord had not given advice which might Ihe
boon cognizable,. but had requested that it . 4
be kept secret. To the immortal credit ~r
the HOuse of Commons he spoke . it, that
athlete wee rendered. nugatory,
and ''
by thee
sense of public duty it had !aeon brought tor.
%ran! —( et cr.') of No 1 No !) Was it e;
Noble Lord's own wish that it should 1,2
brought forward ?—f rev ! Yes!] If so, dare;
las la eves to say, flee which he was steryeeuo,
ant to Say, why had the Noble Lord stated whit
he did slate in his evidence? Why had he told
the Hoeft, 'at the Bar on one day that he had pre,
genteel it to his M d Majesty at one time, and U. II ale.
tiler day that he had presented ii at another tied
A ir aeriall claim hal been made upon the Hume by
the Learned Gentlemen opposite.-.-R•Chlha which
Ihe trusted, as long as the British History shed;
endure, would be, urged with success, ehei, it wit
urged with justice. Ile had urged the Boasts Hut
to visit this &retire. on Lord Chatham becatisu le
was the son of William Earl of Chatham, and the
brother of Mr. Pitt, in the former of why,,,, let
secret influence practised by the Noble Lurd hel
found its greatest antagonist, and in the herr of
whom the Constitution, violated by tie Nee
Lord, tuithd its warmest defender. In the name
of those illastrious characters he made to 'el
Howe an optical contrary to that of the Lee
est Gentleman ; he appealed .. to them el she. I
veneration for their memory, by an asset.. A '
their princleles. •
Mr. S'rElill EN explained. Ho' 't ,t• in
called on the, House nut to ,;t, e-, 1 • 'y
Noble Lird•fer the• sake of les .
brother; he had only laid that the Ivor. e
thaw Earl of Chaftlam ought nut to be quo e'
aggravate the accusation against his suit ; au, e
had only conjured those who venerated that ille.
trious character, and
.who were attached to, and
had been obrreed. by Mr. Pitt, to assist hie level
' efforts ill
.the defeere of the Noble Lard epee
. the stream of party spirit, and to rescue him front
the gros.est ininsitee.
Me. G. spli..romv, said, tkat he cane
down to the Howse Satisfied with a conviction that
-the conduct of the Ndhle Lord demanded re
.adoption of su,me &eines resolutions. But tie
speeches of his Learned Friend (Mr. Stealers),
of whose judgment and takhts ho had the highest
epinion, and of the Leartiest Gentleman opposite,
although very different• from each other; tot hie
to doubt the accuracy of his Own judgment open
the (pastiest. He certaiuly Old not conceive that
the conduct of the Noble turd had been Mare on.
constitutional titan the contrust of lite late Duke
I•of Portlend and. a Right Hunotiretile Gotten°
now out of office, with
:respect to the secret adthe
given by them, and 'affecting It; Noble Lord, ips
was Bair Colleague., His. itica of the Alit
• was, that Lord Chatham -had acted Harm
perly, not •as a Cabinet
.Counsellor, hut., as
a General of an *rely, and he wished that
some resolution stomp . be adopted to pre
vent the recurrence of such a proreitdinge—
Ile was hot prepared to agree to the strong erste
Nations proposed, which went to disable the Noble
Lord from serving his Majesty inTuture: To thft
length be would not go. He had net 'the homier
of being much known to Lord Chatham.—Were
it nut indeed for the peculiar circumstances of the
case, he should slot have boasted of being at all
known to the Noble Lord: bait he 'would' saj,
that every nne who had the hone*? to he as.
quaiated with him, insist lie aware that id the ea.
reins pnblic men in the,country no one eas Louis
eminent for candour, fairness, and sincerity. Is
the proceeding which he had adopted, the Motile
Lord must hate beery led into an error. Bel let
site that the Honotitable Mover of the Resole.
lions would not believe in his cooler Moments tin
Lord Chatham's narrative was predicated to his
Majesty with dark, malignant, and insidious views.
He did. not deny that the narrative contained ie.
vete(' on the navy ; but he denied that deiNse
ble Lord was actuated by motives such es tkow
ascribed to blot by the lHonourable Gen 4611.0.
It appeared that the -Noble Ltd hid bran matte
execute* ,terviee which meld net be pedarild. •
To obviate the effects of public censure,. he IA
too hastily, perhaps, prepared his eindieatiotlenni,
had presented It to that person whose estimation le,
was moat solicitous to preserve. With Mini le
the secret influence, which it was aveated kid
existed *during the %hole of the present reigai
he could not conceive how it could lie going ens
for fifty years, without any one pointing his WI
and venturing to say'—•t There is the elon."-.
During:the long Administrations of Lord Nook
and Mr. Pitt, no such discovery was made. lie
could not believe it then to exist. The telhlir
had long imputed to Lord Bole that he ties de
secret adviser of the Crown; hut it was 1505 a •
well knows) historical fact, that so far from Iteirg
the adviser of the Crown, Lord Bute compltiinrd
of having been neglected by it. The present de.
tection indeed was to him a complete proof that
secret influenee had not existed in the way
.15
which it was supposed to exist ; for °thaw,.
was it credible that secret advice should be der"
in twenty days after its communicates,' ? . A Oa"'
ger greater than that arising from secret influence
appeared to him to have threatened the Coletilte
tion on Cie coalition of Lord Nosth and Mr: •
Fox—mitnely the anion of ell the ;legislate:et
•leinilies of the country. lie would tout vote lilt
the previcies qtiestiane, neither waled he wee fa
the Honourable Gentleman's ressilittiens; but he
wished that the Maio would record en lb!!.
Journals some rttolutioni which %mild effeetgliff
prevent 'any person in the nav I or InilijAry.s".
vire of Isis Majesty, from approarl htg his Mattel/
with a narrative of his conduct in any otha wet

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