The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-06-10 00:00:00

factor.. s genet ty. was Inciple
the Bill, hat was anxiois for further information.
Mr. BYNO was in favour of further inquiry before
any changowas'made io those laws, during the opera-
tion of width there was less distress in the parishes la
which those manufacturers lived than in any Other die.
trio. Theme was much good sense among those people,
and if they were allowed the opportunityof being heard,
he had no doubt but they would go home from the Com-
mittee convinced of the propriety and utility of the Bill.
Mr. C. GRANT objected to the Committee, because it
iambi be impossible io any given time for any Committee
to embrace the wide range of inquiry suggested by the
Menourable Memhers for Bristol and Norwich. An
attooorable Member under the gallery (Mr. Mooch)
was of opinion that the Committee shoold also inquire
auto the operation of the Poor Laws, in reference to ins-
attfadurers.• He should have no objection to go into the
Cip' emitter, itthe objects of inquiry were to be limited, but
he could not consent to it nosier the impression that it
would not be closed, not only In three weeks, but not
even in three Sessions. The principle of the Bill was
approved of by almost every lion. Member; but it did
not rest in principle only, but was founded on facts. It
was sanctioned also by, the Report of the Lords' Commit•
mittee on the silk trade. The Right Honourable Gest.,
here read extracts from that Report, and contended that
itamounted to a repeal of the old Act. With rasped te
the assertion of the Hon. Member for hliddleset (Mr.
Byng,) that the Spitalfields districts were freer than attf
other from distress. He begged to refer the House to
the Report of the Committee for relieving the distresses
of the Spitaifields Weavers, in 1816. The existence of
great distress was proved, in his opinion by that docu-
ment, which showed that upwards of 8,300 looms were
out of employment. If three hands were allowed to each
loom, the number of persons unemployed would be
724,900. Adding to that the proportion of women and
children, the House could not but see that in the silk
trade alone, in that year, no fewer than 40,000 persons
were out of employment.
Sir JAMES MACINTOSH said he would go into the
gemmed Committee on the grounds of conciliation and
general satisfaction, assuming, at the same time, that
oath a concession would not delay the Bill. Aoy such
delay would only keep up the irritation, and the postpon-
ing of it beyond the present Session would only produce
hopes of ultimately defeating it, encouraging the party
at the same time to renew the charge next Session. He
would not vote for any Committee if it risked the certain-
gjassing the measure in the present Session. He
the House would choose the fittest Members for
such a Committer. awl would also give them instruetlona
so framed, that there could be no risk of producing too
much delay.
After a few words from Mr. BRIGHT, if explanadoo,

thegouse divided, ~.
leer the original mottos, fiatet-Agallist it, 60 ;-.4111.
joritThey, 8.
Bill was then ordered to ie Not a third time on
Wednesday next.
CHIEF BARON OF THE EXrHEQUER (IRELAND).
On the motion fur reading the-Order of the Day for
the House resolving itself into a Committee on the judi-
cial fees received by the Chief Baron of the Exchequer
in Ireland,
Mr. S. RICE expressed a wish that the Committee
would be postponed to Friday, that he might have an op-
portunity of makings motion connected with the subject.
Captain O'GRADY was understood to say, that in
case the Committee was postponed to Friday, he wished
that there should be an understanding that the motion
would then come on for certain.
1 • The postponement of the Committee was then agreed to.
LEEWARD ISI.ANDI—FOUIt 'AND A HALF PER
CENT. DUTIES.
Air. CRKEVEY begged to call the attention of the
Miner to the grievances under which the people of the
Leeward iskeds laboured. Among their anmerous causes
of distress, they complained particularly of the hardship
imposed on them of grantieg to the Crown four hog.
abrade and a half of sugar, out of every hundred hog-
shead; and four puncheons end a half of rum out of every
'hundred puncheons. He bad brought the subject before
the House at a former period, and be was induced to hope
Aso they beard the petitions reed, the inhabitants of
those islands would be no bongereuhjected to that griev'
Hitler. The Hoe. Member than teed extracts from Me
petitions of six of the islands, among *high was Barbs-
deo. Antigua, Montserrat, and St. Christopher, eptn-
'plaining of genera) grievances, .but all concurring in
placing the 4 percent. duties among them. They pray-
ed the House to take all those grievances into considels-
tioa, and abolish that duty altogether, as they contri-
buted equally in all other respects to support the titirtkni
of the state. By looking to the list'of pensions grafted
out of those duties, hefeend two knitted to the Princess
of Gloucester, and to the Princess of Hesse Homburg.
He did not wish unnecessatilv to bring the names of those
illustrious ladies before the Bosse. 'r he planters were
unequal to contend with these persons. With regard to
the two Priseesses. the Civil List was quite ample to fur-
nish them with en income. Then again there are pen-
shuts of %SM. a year to the five Misses Fiticlarenee.
Me regretted to be obliged Pp mention it; but after all
•111 ut Holm lied done for the Duke of Clarence, they
Shoed not have bees called on II any other way. These
amd otherhicambrenees ought to be removed from these
.islands. In order tnrelleve the West Indians the Go-
'torment tax the East Indiesugar, hot they will not give
;wile( by taking away their own peados,. It seemed
diet the sugar and rum did nut pay all these pensions,
and -lie found an item in the Droste of the Admiralty of
18,0001. ou account of the .te per rent, duties to make up
the halence of the pensions. He would mote for that
document-at • fitters time, as be could not see there was
any right to claim it. If the Heine would not *,
the subject, he did not know what the Right Hen. Geo-
tlemaa could make of reform with his Red Lions and
Kings of Bohemia. If the House do not entertain it, the
country will see that all places were kept, not as belong,
ing to ;Le State, but to a close corporation. He would
be glad to see the young Members of the House not is-
different to it, but recollect the old Constitutional maxim
of grievance before supply. The Hon. Gentleman con-
cluded by reading his resolution.
Mr. CANNING mid that the question divided itself Into
two parts,—the one the right of the Crown to receive the
duties, and the other the right of the Crown to appropriate(
them. A motion similar to the present had been made for
many years successively, and the we're on which these du-
ties and their appropriations were held being still the asses
there was no stronger grounds for the motion than on former
viers. Tin right of the Crown to dispose of these funds
iviss never disputed ; even on Mr. Burke's sweeping re-
Sees motion, they were specially excepted. The lion. Den-
leum had specified by name the persons to whom a part of
Ent furid was applied. With regard to himself he had bees
strictly correct. It was true that when he retired from the
slice of Under Secretary of State, he declined a pension of
1,11001., or 1,2005., to which he was entitled by usage and
custom. He took the option of giving half the sum to a
person who had some claims on him. The Hon. Gentlestaisi
had given other instances of the application ; but he would
remind him that some of the names bad done honour to the
country. And he could further remind him, that there were
names to be found connected with the Hon. Gentleman him.
self. He would consider it to be invidious to do so. After
a few other observations, be concluded by stating he would
vote against the amendment. .
Mr. HUME said the House ought well to consider whe
ther, iu the present state of the West India islands, tbe,

mentioning individaass..... ___
.sici not don. invidiously. but incident-
_2ecessary for him to do more than say that
• new principle bad been introduced by drawing on the
Omits of the Admirsity. We were called en to take up the
subject injustice to the West India islands, who called on
them by parities, to which the House would tarn a deaf or.
They called for relief from a burden at all times, but parti-
colitis now, when
!nay ore so grievously harassed and op-
pressed. it always appeared to him to be an impolitic tax.
It was denounced by Mr. Burke as the most burdensome
tax, becattse it was on produce, and not profit.—Mr. Burka,,
who lived by extraordinary accident to receive a pension
from 'Cat very fund which be had denounced. One great
objection to the tax was, it was unequally *Polled to a fe w I
Islands, to the exclusion of all the oth-rs. He agreed with
his Hoe. Friend (Mr. Hume) that the islands Should be re-
Bead ell far mate Drafts of the Admiralty went.
• The Horse then divided—For the Antendsamt, 33—Noes, I
107—Majorlty, M.
On our return to the gallery, Sir JAMES MACINTOSH
was addressing the House, and urging the necessity of
postponing theßilis for Amending the Criminal Law,which.
with the concurrence of Mr.Peec,werepat a to another day.
On the order of the day being moved for the House to go
into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. HUMP: said that before the motion was agreed to.,
be felt it necessary to call the House to the contents of •
paper that had been laid on the table some days before,.
giving an account of the expences of the Coronation. Them
were two circumstances connected with that paper, which'
he should notice. One was the length of time that hod
elapsed before the atmoust was laid on the table—the othq.
was, the enormous excess of the sum above the 'Mime*
that had been made at the time of the ceremony in quceion.
It was then stated that the expense would be about 100,0001.
and now according to the paper on the table it amounted to
918,0001. If the House quietly acquiesced in charges for
much exceeding the estimates, it was mere folly to call fee,
any estimate at all. After such a waste of money as had,
appeared by those items to have taken place, the Hommel
ought not to vote one shilling, until a full and satisfactory
explanation was given respecting them. Accuetomed as the
House had been to take the word of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, they mast feel it a most extraordinary thing
that there should be so great a deviation from the estimate
he had given in the year 1590, and it was their duty to ask
what right any Minister had to apply a shining of the public
money to any purpose. without a specific clause of appro-
priation in an Act of Parliament. Some of theitmos in clues-
lion were so enormous, as to call for an immediate inquiry.
There was • sum of 111,000/. for decorating tee Hall sod the
Abbey. This was one among other proofs that Ministers did
not know the nature of what they had undertaken, and it was
necessary for the House to know how the money had been
expended. There was a sum of '''t.7ool. for his Majesty's
Coronation Robes—(ileer); and after so profuse an ex-
penditure. he asked what use eras there to discharge and
cut down the small salaries of poor clerks in public 0d11.',1
ces.—(Hear, hear.) Why, if his Majesty bad he n cloth 4
ed in gold from head to foot, the expense could not Laos
amounted to half that snm. It was said that the King
had a diamond Crown. He (Mr. Hume) bad no objection
to that bauble ; but be understood that it had been
made up eighteen months before the Coronation, sod
that it had not been purchased for the purpose, but mere-
ly supplied by the jeweller for the occasion, and that the
motley for the use of It had not yet been paid. This watt
a fit subject for inquiry before a Committee ; ind it wee
also fit to inquire whether a large sum had not been take.
for the Coronation from other public sources. There was
one item in the paper which mast excite the astonishment
of every body—it was 3,0001. to Sir George Nayler,
for pahltshing an account of the ceremony. If that ce-
remony was worth handing down to posterity. it might
be left to the historian to do so. But those to whom es-
pies of ceremony bad been given should have paid for
themod the psilic ought not to have been saddled
meow. If the first estintate made in that
be aim late Chancellor of the Exchequer had been
Ihf 138,4001. the Meuse would not hive agreed to it
Thee the sum foci. snuff-boxes to Foreign Ministers was
• s annece.welry aid wasteful txrediture of public
money. Ministers bad no right to sanction the expendi-
ture of a single sum which was not in the Appropnatioo
Bill. It was a breach of faith to do so. The Hon. Mem-
ber next alluded to the sum received as an indemnity
from France, the only plirt of which that bad been
brought to account was 500,000/ ;after all the boasts
made by Ministers respecting that sum.. Had the
House been differently constructed from what itoow was,
Ministers would deserve to be impeached for their waste-
ful extravagance. The sum to be paid by France, as in-
demeity, was five. millions ; of this a large portion was to
be given to the army. To this he had no objection.—
But what he complained of was, that the sum received
bed not been applied to the public service, and he trusted
the House would notsaoction the application of so great
a sum as 233,0001. to the Coronation. He concludedhy
moving a resolution, That it was expedient to gppoiat a
select Committee, to inquire into the expenditure of so
1 large a stun for the Coroaation. before any supply Was
grantea ; and to inquire why. so large a stun as 1313,0001.
above the estimate bad been applied, without being'pre-
vionsly noted by Parliament. •
1 The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
it would hare been fair in the Honourable tientleman to
have given notice of his intention to being forward this
qnestion. And as no such notice was given, be (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) was not prepared to pre
nit explanation as to the separate items to the paper. lint
'as to the expense itself, the House ought not to be sur-
prised at the excess of it, above the estimate, when it
Jess considered that the Coronation bad been put off for
a whole year, after the estimate was made. When his
Right Hon. Predecessor in office, proposed a vote of
169,0001. for the expenses of the Coronation, it was ins.
possible for him to state with accuracy what the expense
was likely to be. No ceremooy of the kind bad occurred
for 60 years before, and it was impossible front any refer-
ence to the expenses incurred so far hack, to calculate
the probable amount of the expenses likely.to be incurred
by another Coronation. No human being could make
`out the estimate before hand. The House must recollect,
that wiles 100,0001. was mentioned as the probable ex-
pense of the Coronation, the idea was wonted by Oriole-
men on the other 'side ; some of whom declared it would
amount to halt a million, and others to one million. Not
hsving been aware of this motion until be was entering ,
the Kongo that evening, be was not prepared to give an
explanation as to particular items. The Hon. Gentleman
laboured under a great mistake as to the fend out of
which the expenses wete paid, for the 500,0001. paid by
France, had not been appropriated to any particular putt.
pose. No part of the indemnity money had been appro.
petered by Parliament. A sum of 2,0e0,0001. was given
to erect fortifications in the Neth •rlands, and a large
gam applied to the maintenance of the army In France.
An this WAS dome by the authority of the Crown and not
by Parliament. If any part of it had gone to defray the
.expenses of the Coronation, there would be no better
application of it. and it was unjust to charge Ministers
with any improper application of the money.
Colonel DAVIES said it was impossible not to feel the
greatest indignation at the enormous sum&oxpended for
the Coronation, for the year Iltil ; the Chancellor of the
'Exchequer in answer to a question put by himself, said
the expenses of the Coronado' . might exceed the
100,0001. by a' very small sum ; - that it would be so
trifling as not to be worth noticing. As to the indemnity
money received from France, he hoped the Chancellor
lof the Exchequer would soon lay before the' House an ac-
mount of the wanner in which it had been expended and
appropriated. -
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had no objection to lay before the House the appropria-
ion of the five millions. . '

. paper
expenditure of public mo'.ey.
Mr. CURWLN thought dui a notice should be eiveq
of the prevent motion. If it were pressed to a division,
he could not vote for it.
Mr. BROUGHAM said the expenses were-most shock-
ing ; and he wished his Hon. Friend would give notice
of his intention to move for an inquiry into them. 17e
admitted the necessity of splendonr at a Coronation, in.t
it was most shocking to think it should amount to so .
large a suns. He nndersteod the Crown Jewels were
hired of a jeweller ; and if so, he wished to know air
so large a sum as 24001. was charged for the decora-
tions of his Majesty. Any Minister ordering each in
expense as this unght to
,he !made to pay it nut of hill
coon pocket ; and he should support any Bill brought
in for that purpose. A most serious inconvenience be-
sides, bad arisen to the administration of justice, by the
removal of the Courts at Westminster Hall previous to
the Coronation.—lle alluded to the separation of the
Courts, which, though it should seem to be an inconve-
nience to the profession, was yet eventually an evil to
the suitors. And even as regarded the bar-, their con-
venience should not be u.l for they were con•
lamed in the administration of justice. He wished to
ask, whether it was nut possible that the Coorts shquld
be united. There were several of the Courts in which
the same order of 114tristers practised, such as tie
Courts of Common. Pleas aqd Nine's Bench, and the
transfer of these learned persons from one Cosset to
another was a greatevil. At present, by the distance,
ith which the King's Bench was situated from Wesstoin•
star Hall, gentlemen o the profession had to peas
through a large open street, and two church-yards.—(A
laugh.) In addition to these inconveniences, the Court
of King's Bench itself held its sitting in the Westmin-
ster Sessions House only by courtesy of the Magistrates
sod at such times as they chose. The Courts of Cotr.-
soon Law and Equity, too, were now entirely separate.
All these he mentioned as arising out of the derange.
menus caused by tote Coronation. But whilst the Court.
of Justice were thus r•cglected, large sums of money
were expended upon the entrance to. the House of Lords,
which was; used only once a year. Upon the taste *kW
which that new addtttien seas nude, he should only Say,
that bad as Ft was, it was yet superior to the buildings",
which it was surrounded. One-third of the money laul
out on this piece of architecture, would have raised teen.:
porary badly gs in Westminster-hall, convenient enough
to remove the complaint which now existed against the
Courts of Justice. He should vote for the Committee.
Mr. BRIGHT said- he could not look Spon the applica-
tion of this money from France otherwise titan as a most
serious and constitutional question.—(Hear.) Ile ho?ed
that when the matter was brought before the House It would
receive all the attention which it deserved. lie was not at
all satisfied with the explanation which his Majesty's Minis-
ten had given upon the subject, for he should tell them that
the Revenues of the Crown were the property of the people.
and that they should not be dispenseciwithout their consent.
Sir FRANCIS BLAKE said he ways sorry that we had
come to such a pass, the' a moiety of the expenses of our
King's Coronation were obliged to be defrayed by the
French.—(A Leigh.) The expenses of that pageant must
have been 'notelets, for the public had accounts of them
hither to only in scraps. Be hoped that one day or other
these accounts would be entirely made out, and then the
worlds might sayfinis Connect epos.—(Load laughing.)
Mr. 1110BHOUAE said that it appeared the whole of the
expeoses of the Coronation bad been paid by the French.
Being upon his legs, he wished to ask whether Gentlemen
at the other side bad any intention of bringing in a BULL. ,
renew what was called •6 Ponsoaby's thet,"- selieh presented
the taking of fees at the renewal of commissions on tie de-
mise of the Crown? He had understood that the Hon.
Member for Peterborough (Mr. Scarlet) had, determined to
bring forward this measure; but, probably, he was turned
aside froth it, through delicacy. at the reports which pre-
vailed respectirg the King's health. He hoped, however,
that the ides was not gives up. Hat also expressed a lope
that, &het.** mach hack been expented to onesieg the 'rho -
dews of Weetiataster Hall, they would not bestial. block-
ed op.
The Hesse then divided, when there appeared—For the
Committee. 6.s—Aealost it, 110—Majority, 46.
Mr. HUME said, I,3l39l.cherged for the Royal Standards
of the Foot Guards was improperly kneaded in CI vil Contin-
gencies.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, the Royal Standards were ex-
cepted from the Civil List. .
Mr. BERNAL found a charge of 3,13./i. for Mr. Plaskett,.
Inspector of Aliens. Tiset service had been already pro-
vided for in the Miscellaneous Estimates of last Session.—
l'lpe tern of 1,0001. was also voted for the same Mr.Plaskette
"11 t. ARBUTHNOT said he believed the sum the Hon.
.Member adverted to was le the Estimates of last year ; it
WWI voted. but not appropriated.
Mr. HUME wished to know in what Ablation the Wider
Establishment et Berbice stood. i
Mr. LUSHINCTON said if the Hoe. Member would re-'
for twthe Treasury Minute, he would find that no pains had
been spared to get rid of that properly.
• "'lgr.BEßNALwished for some explaoati nit on the subject.
) Mr. GOULBURN said the Whiter Establishment origl-
By heleaged to the Dutch Government. The estates were
Yen back to the Dutch with the exception of the Winter
bUshment. It consisted of artisans who were slaves.
Mr, 'HUME expressed a hope that the slaves would,
ibil entounsitted rather than remain an expence to this country.
Mr. HUME then said he came to the most objectionable
item. The manner in which they were going on with Fo-
reign Diplomatic expellee was most absurd. Every thing
wassdede at the head quarters of the Allies, and our Arabes-
,sadors might as well remain at home. lie adverted to the
eepence of 10001. for plate at Petersburg. The outfit of
.16001. for Mr. Wynn. sent to the Swiss Cantons. Ile lute.
elitted that Ilan. for clothes to a Geotleman sent upon a Is-
4:naive mission was too mech. The amount this year was
411,4451. for extraordinaries t. Ambassadors. Ile contended
that a complete revision of the expence of Ambassadors wit
necessary. He concluded by moving to reduce the sum of
150,0001. to 107,2011.
Mr. Secretary CANNING said he did not.deny any
liononrahle blewber the right of fair inquiry, at the saes
*se he telt that a departure from the rah of Perlis-
.usentary inquiry had been exceeded. With respect to
the plate, he could as-tire the Hoo. Member that sitter
;Nib tbe piste had been considered the property of the
'Gown; the Antbaseadors only had the nee of tr. Us
irate of outfit was settled in 1816, and the scale laid doss
'html never been exceeded. In some instances the Deft
Iliad been withheld. The bargain between the Ceewa
and Parliament with respect to the civil List had beg
observed. The expenses were withia the terms of that
;bargain. and whilst they did notexceed the assountvetesl ,
thy Parliament it was useess for any Member to call foe
particular details.
, Mr. LENNARD supported the motion.
Tife House then divided, when there appeared—Fe
the Orl ginal Motion 70; For the Amendment 16—Bt
jority 54.
X 2,000 were then proposed for Captain Mae", la re-
muneration for his services.
Mr. HUME spoke a few word', we qnderstoods gas!
the vote, and moved that the Chairman should reps)

progress.
CURWEN opposed Mt. Hense's motion.
The House then divided, when there appeand —For
Ithe Motion 58 ; For M. Hume's Amendment 16—Ws'
'jurity 42. •
MetkatERVEY then moved again that the Chairetwe
should report progress.
The }louse itntnediately divided, when there IPPearta
—For the Motion 35; Against it 30—Majority J.
The Meuse then resumed, and the Chatrmaa rep r"
progress, and obtained leave to sit again
Tue other Orders or the I)cy being (listened arc tile
Haw adjourned at a Quarter to Two o'clock.

• THE STATIN MAN:.
...
lif • fnether Inq W
iiirn do amm .1191. f. i aelrialive it. He hope,
hope that the 0411 would odlttee
t inkel • ma noterietett with the West
• ay, hp voting for the motion,
dent Session. . ~.
- ' ' '' '' "4
- relief. -
Mr. MONCK objected to a basti-ceurse, siA was a mt. BROUGHAM said that
opinion that, before the Bill passed, an inquiry should be Her. Friends ; though mention
tariff into the operation of the Poor Laws on oir Mans- mussily done, he did not dos
farturers generally. He was a friend to
_the principle Of ally. ss lt was unneceary for h
. .

•
1,64.. .
- v• *Pk_ V-7
id atetafh 1
il
• :Mr. HUME said he bad that day, at four Acitsent
India i p wild 0 Alk to the Chancellor of the Exchequer a notice of his intrn•
they would Bite all INNPlial Von to bring this subject forward.
the quite agreed with both Mr. BENNETT declared it as his opinion that the
.
.t... InAtAA•sla_ .._.M«-items contained in the paper constituted a most wicked
_ ...