The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-05-15 00:00:00

THE STATESM AN

Mr.J. WILLIAMS said after the reprobation widela
he heard from the House of the publication in question,
he was willing to withdraw the Resolution.
SLAVERY.
Mr. EVANS presented petitions from the Magistrates,
Clergy, and Inhabitants 9f Colchester, Faversham, and
other towns, for the total Abolition of Negro Slavery.
Mr. HUME, on behalf of Mr. Msberly, gave notice
for the 28th May, for the appointment of a Committee to
take into consideration the Duties on Beer and Malt.
The Sheriffs of the City of London appeared at the
bar with the petition of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen,
and Common Counci'men of the City of London, against
certain provisions of the Act for rebuilding London
Bridge.
The LORD MAYOR supported the prayer of the pe-
tition, and recommended that clauses giving the Corpo-
ration of the City of London a greater controul over the
lievennes` of the Bridge be introduced.
Sir 0. COCKBURN said that the money in hand was
quite equal to the building of a new bridge ; in Let,
there was money enough for right years of expenditure.
Sir ISAAC COFFIN said that having been a Mem-
ber of the Committee up stairs, his opinion was, that the
only objection which the Corporation had to the build-
ing a new Bridge, arose from their unwillingness to
part with any of their revenues.
After a few words from
Mr. C. SMITH, the petition was laid on the table.
INQUIRY INTO THE CONDUCTOR THE SHERIFF
OF DUBLIN.
Col. BARRY before moving that the House resolved
itself into a ComMittee on this inquiry, begged to say a
word or two on ie order of the proceedings, and the
probability of their termination. An Hon. Gentleman
opposite had expressed a wish to detain one of the wit-
nesses, Mr. Mansfield, in. London, until the termination
of the inquiry; he hoped that when the Hon. Gentleman
understood that the evidence of a Mr. Whistler, who
was in the same office with Mr. Mansfield was material
for the defence of the Sheriff, he would allow Mr. Mans-
field to return to attend to the duties of his office during
Mr. Whistler's examination before the House. lie would
next move that a copy of the Address of the Mayor and
Corporation of-Dublin to the Lord Lieutenant on the
I.tte riots at the theatre, with a copy of the answer there-
to. be laid before the House ; also for a copy of the Ad-
dress on the saute occasion of the Noblemen and Gentle.
men of the City of Dublin, with the answer thereto.—
Ordered.
Mr. HUME, on behalf of Mr. Brougham, moved for
a Return of the Crown Books of IMAM, containing the
panels of the Grand Juries, from the year 1808 to 1822,
and that the Clerk of the Crown be ordered to attend
with them.
Sir G. HILL wished to know if extracts prverly au-
thenticated would answer?
After a few words from Col. BARRY and Mr. PLUN-
KETT,
Mr. HUME said, that copies of extracts would not
answer, as he understood that certain changes had taken
place in the books, which it was necessary should be
examined into and explained by the Clerk of the
Crown. _

The motion was then withdrawn.
The House then went into a Committee, Sir ROBERT
HERON in the chdir.
Wm. Lewis called in and examined—Said he resided
in Dublin, and he was an attorney.
By Col. BARRY.—Do y.:u recollect going to the
gaol of Newgate shortly after the riots in the theatre at
Dublin ?—I do.
For what purpose ?—I was called on to go there and
see the prisoners who were in custody for the riot.
Who went with you ?—Major Tandy.
Did you point out any person as the man who threw
the rattle at the theatre?—No: I pointed out the person
of a man who answered the description of a man whom
I thought threw the rattle.
Was Graham the man you pointed out ?—No was
told the person I pointed out was not a prisoner.
The witness was ordered to withdraw.

Wm. Graves, examined by Mr. BROWNLOW.—The
Grand Jury atterded and answered consecutively, be-
cause there was a report that a trial of consequence was
to be brought on. The Jury were actually sworn before
they understood that the capital part of the charge was
abandoned.
The witness was ordered to withdraw.
Mr. Richard Fawde called, but did not answer.
Colonel BARRY wished to ask the Right Honourable
and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Plunkett) that if he recol-
lected that a Petit Jury was impaneled last November.
Mr. PLUNKETT—I do; but I do not recollect the
names of the Jury.
Does the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman recol-
lect that any challenges were then made on behalf of
the Crown ?—There were challenges made, but I do not
recollect to whom.
Was a person of the name of Wadham challenged ?
I don't recollect the name.
Will the Right honourable Gentleman permit me to
ask whether the extracts from the hooks of the Orange
Lodges in his possession was given him prior to or sub-
sequent to the late trials? Certainly subsequent to the
trial.
Mr. PLUNKETT then said that he answered the
questions without knowing their bearing, particularly of
the latter.
Graves called in, and examined by Colonel
BARRY.—Witness was examined helot? the Grand
Jury. When he went into the Jury Room, he was de-
sired to sit down and state what material evidence lie had
to offer. The Jury heard him silently and politely, Lnd
without any signs of irritation. Informations were
sworn before him relative to riots subsequent to the 4th
of November, when persons nho were around the statue
were dispersed, and some of them wounded by the mili-
tary.
In the informations the riots at the theatre were diffe•

rently described ?—They were.
In what respect did these differ ?—One account stated
that a heavy piece of timl.or was thrown, and another
that a heavy log of wood was thrown.
Were von at the theatre at the time of the riot ?—I was.
What was said to be thrown besides a piece of wood?
—A quart bottle.
What were they called who threw it?—Assassins ; in
fart, a party.
Do yon believe a.piece of timber was thrown?—l be-
neve there was a piece thrown, but I don't know what
the weight of it was.
Did it deserve the appellation of a heavy piece of
timber ?—1 cannot tell the measurement of it.
Could it be cut up for furniture?—lt was no less than
a watt:ln-40's rattle.
I ask him why lie declined to sign the information,
when the offence was charged as a capital crime ?—Nly
dnty was merely in tgisterial, all I had to do; was to have
the depositions of the witness perfectly set down.
Was any proposition mole to you by the Attorney-
General as to any course which you ought to pursue?—l
claim the protection of the House against making any
disclosures respecting communications, which might be
of a confidential nature.
Was any proposition made to you to take informations
inspecting the attempt to assassinate the Lord Lieuten-
ant, without haying the informant before you ?—No.
The greatest part of the investigation did not take place
in my office. It took place before the Law Officers of
the Crown, from the unwillingness of the witnesses to
appear at the Police Office, who rather chose to go to
the Castle thin before the Magistrates. General
direc-
tiens,ottly were given as to the commit:abh
•

bid you, is fact, refuse to sign any neannittal?—That
duty devolved es a brother Magistrate.
'then no mach proposition as 1 mentioned, was made to
yon P—No.
Were you ever asked to attest any information which
yon were not suffered to read ?—Niv.
Examined by Mr.IJAMES DALY.—I was at the
theatre.
Did you see any attemp' at assassination P—l did no
see the bottle till it was held up ; I then ran towards the
gallery, and with another Magistrate apprehended a
matt who had a whistle; it was while I was absent that
the missile was thrown.
Did von see any attempt at assassination ?—1 did not.
By gir JOHN Newpoitt—Did you ever hear any
riot or fiting of guns, or dressing the statne ?-1 never
was in College limn at those hours; but 1 know there
was noise aid confusion in the street at the time.
By Colonel BAILKY.—Were not the Atkinson. prin-
cipal witnesses for the prosecution ?—They were.
They were out esaunned before the Wand Jury ?
No.
By Dr. LUSHINGTON.—During the eight or nine years
that you have been a Magistrate, hate you received any
particular orders as to keeping the pease on the day that the
statue of King William was dressed 2-1 have not, but I
know such orders had been given.
When P—The attention of the Magistrates was drawn
to the circumstances.
What reasons have you for thinking so ?-1 had a good
deal of intercourse with the head office of police, and 1
knew that the attention of Magistrate. had been called
to this circumstance.
Do you mean for the last eight or nine years?-1 do
no go so far ba'rk.
Six or seven then P—Not so far. 1 would say since
the present King's accession the Magistratess hal been
more attentive t it.
Has any riot taken place within your memory ?—No-
thing of any importance since July, 1822, when two or
three persons were hart.
Was there not riots before July, 152'2?—There were
noises and firing of guns.
Was there not a proression ?—Processions used to take
place regularly till 1822.
Were they always conducted peaceably and without
insult to the people of Dublin?-1 was then a young
man, and not connected with the police of Dublin.
1 do not ask when you were young, but were they not
attended with insults to the people of Dublin?-1 cannot
say, but I saw paragraphs in the papers, which stated
that some disorders had taken place.—(Cries of order.)
But were you a Magistrate wen?-1 have been since
1915.
Had von any instructions to preserve peace on these
ocra•iuus latterly ?—Most anxious ones. .
Were they more strict than before?—More strict be-
cause apprehensions were entertained that the dressing
would take pine contrary to the wishes of the Cloven'.
went. _ _

The witness was ordered to withdraw.
Christopher Ui lhoole n as then called.—He said be was
a peace officer of the head police office, Dublin.
By Col. BARRY.—Were you a witness before the
Grand Jury in 15:%3?—1 was.
How did they conduct themselves towards you?—As
I think a Grand Jury ought to do. - (A laugh.)
Will civility and patience ?—Yes.
They heard the whole story ?—Yes.
Did nothing offensive happen to you while in the
room ?—Nothing.
Were you examined by the Petit Jury ?—No, I was
summoned. out not called.
You apprehended same of the rioters ?—1 was with Aid.
Daly when he arrested Handwich.
What happened when that occurred ?—There was 4
great noise in the gallery, some said Handirieh should
go, others he should net. Handwich said he would,
himself ; some persons came behind Handwich and me,
but we succeeded in taking him away.
Did you hear any particular conversation about the
bottle ?—All agreed that it was thrown by Handwich. I
said to him „you would not be so bold as to attempt the
life of the representative of Majesty, or of any one
else ?" He said he would not, but that he would ra-
ther apprehend any one who entertained such an inten-
tion.
By Sir J. NEWPORT.—Are you a Member of any
Orange Lodges?-1 am not.
Do you know any one of the police wbo it ?—I do not.
Mr. vuLBUitN rose to order. He thought the ex-
amination ssas taking too extensive a range. The opi-
nion of witnesses could not be important, as to the beha
tiour of the Grand Jury.
_ Col. BARRY contended that the inquiry was not irre-

levant.
William Irvine.—Witness said he was a police officer,
and was examined before the Drawl Jury of Dublin ; he
was also examined before the Petit Jury. tie was treated
by tire tirand Jury with civility and patience.
John Henry Brocas was then called ; witness did not

appear.
Colonel BARRY said the witness got such a beating
in Dublin that he was unable to come over.—(A laugh.)
He should call Mr. Whistler, for it was impossible
the Sheriff's case could close without calling him. He
had been summoned. If the House would permit the
witness Mansfield, the Sheriffs clerk to go overt the
Under-Sheriff might then be dispensed with from the
office.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, be could not send away Mans-
field, because it was necessary to confront him with
Whistler. Suiely. there were other clerks in the Sheriffs
Office, and these two witnesses might be here together
with safety to the public business. Mansfield had stated
that offers were made iu the office for the prevention of
justice, and the House should not part with a witness
who appeared under such invidious ettcumstances before
them already.
Mr. tiOULBOURN denied that the inquiry affected
the conduct of the individual witness. He could go on
with the Bight.Honourable B,sronet in detaining Mans-
field.
Mr. J. D%LY said there was a Mr. Johnson waiting,
who had obtained leave of the Lord Lientecant to attend.
He wished to ask whether his evidence was considered so

material as to detain him iu town.
Colonel BARRY said he was not aware Mr. Johnson
had belonged to the Lord Lieutenant's Court. Whether
his evidence was material or not, must depend upon
other testimony. He disclaimed, however, meaning to
give any personal offence, by summoning any particular
witness.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it

seemed that Gentlemen had determined not to call any
witnesses. Under these circumstances. the sooner
the business aas put a stop to this night the better.—
(Hear.)
Mr. S. RICE dished that Benjamin Rickey should be
[ called.

This witness was then examined, and stated that lie
had delivered in the different panels. He bad stated that
it as useril in compliment to newly appointed Common
Councilmen, to put them on the panels next after
their election. He has examined those of 1319 and 1820,
and finds that there were. four on tile panel, and only one
on the brand Jury. Does not recollect if on the trial of
the Shrares's in 1798, or on that of Emmett in 1803, the
Common Councilmen followed each other on the panels
consecutively.
On the motion of the. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE•
QUEIt, the Chairman was ordered to report progress,
and net leave to sit again on Wednesday.
On the motion of 7i r. BROWNLOW, the Grand Jury
,panels for the years 1795 and 1203, were ordered to be
returned.

NEWFOUNDLAND.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the House should resolve itself into a Committee on
the Customs Acts.

Mr. HUME took this occasion of railing the attention
of the Hoase to the situation of Newfoundland. Last
year leave had been obtained to bring in a Bill for the
regulation of affairs of that Island, principally with
respect to the Courts of Justice. It was, however, f.
that further information than the House pose tsseti at
that tine ought to be obtained. The importance of
Newfoundland was not generally known. In size it was
as large an Ireland, end contained a population of from
80 to 1011,000 sonls. Yet the manner in which it was
governed was a perfect anomaly. This had been long
a subject of complaint, and it was matter of surprise
that Ministers had, up to the present moment disregard•
ed the representations of the inhabitants. steauze to
tell, Masters of ships and other Naval Officers had been
appointed Judges, to expound the law, and decide be.
teem the inhabitants in all cases of dispute. It was
needless to say, that Naval Officers were not very well
formed either .by education or habits to expound the
law of England or to atininisser laws to subjects of
this kingdom. I n conseqaence of this state of things,
Petitions were presented to that House and to the House
of Lords, and the Government was frequently memo-
rialized. One of the Petitione•s was Judge Forbes, who
knew well the state of the island, and of whom be had
nothing to say but in praise. Of the other pernons,the Sur-
rogates appointed by the Governor, he should be able fe
prove before a Cominittee very ditleient conduct. What
would the Howie say of a Governor having ens brother
'sitting an Judge, and an Cher acting as Surrogate at the
5.111111. tiw Thas one brother conducted prosecutions,
which were to be decided hy another. Ile was informed
that he could prove the greatest injustice to individnels,
arising out of this system. The inhabitants desired, as
they had a right to expect, to he governed by a civil.
government, and not by men of war. lie could slim,
that, even in an economical view, a civil government
would be preferable. At present live or six sail of ships
err kept meat this station, for what pureopetielheg an o
coullil.
not conceive, unless it were to allow the u.ai
pottunity of becoming Surrogates. The expenees of a
civil government would be less than those incurred by
supporting such a system. One disadvantage which the
Hon. Member pressed, as arising out of exisiing
state of things, was their not bring able to oit'fisli the
Anicticans. These circumstances imperatively callel
upon the House to inquire into the subject, and therefore
it was that he should move for the arm iintment of
e;ommittee up stairs. Un ler a different system,
considerable revenues might be derived fro:u ti,e
Colonies. The inhabitants complained that miming
tines were exacted of them by the Admiral. anti that
within the last year sue.) tines had been levied by
Sir Charles Hamilton. There wan a m -st in-
jurious grievance complained of also in the t. • ure cf lamd
in this colony. It was that no one could sell land without:
the consent of the Governor for the time b-ing. This ass
a hardship upon the planter whici existed in no other island
and a considerable itetrimer: to the value of their property.
After enumei sting the complaints and the prayers of the Pet -
!loners who had come before the House, the lion. Merahee
said he was at a loss to conceive how the inquiry could be
refused. If such charges were true they ought to be reme-
died, and if they were false they ought not to remain disproi -
ed. Ile therefore moved that a Select committee he tie.
pointed, to take into consideration tee sta e of the fisheries
in Newfoundland ;of the laws, revenues, end of the nded-
nistration of justice ; end to report the evidence tothe house
tog• they with their opinion thereon.
Mr. IVILMOT said he should oppose the motion. If
these were charges crimina ing the executive officers of
the Colony, the Hon. Member ought to have either
moved for papers, or given notice of the specific charges
he meant to tiring forward. Representation of griev-
ances had been made formerly from this place, and they
were immediately attended to. As to the want of a !oat
legislature similar to that of Prince Edward's Island,
there was a physical inipediment against it. There were
no roads in the island, nor aoy communication with the
capital in the winter season, except by sea, and, there-
fore, it would be impossible to get the people composing
'such legislature together. The inhabitants were altoge-
thee adverse to any sloth system, and the people of Prince
Edward's Island felt the'greatrst inconvenience from such
a legislature. To the complaints made against the Sur-
rotate Courts, the best answer be could give, was, that
a Bill was shortly to be brought into Parliament to eib-
stitne other Courts in their stead; the Bill would he
printed, and stand over until next Session. He hail the
authority of the Chief Justice of the colony for saying,
that the remedies now in the contemplation of his Ma-
jesty's Government would correct all the abuses that pre.
trailed there. No legislative measure ought to be founded
ou representations made by conflicting interests; but it
must be formed 'lon a general principle, and a general
view of all the circumstances of the colony, so as to es-
tablish a system best calculated to promote the interests
of all. If the Honourable Gentleman had any com-
plaint against Sir Charles Hamilton, let him move for
papers, and then prefer the charges; but it would be
wholly inconsistent and useless to appoint a Committee
for considering thin topics to which he adverted. With
respect to the Vice Admiralty Courts, the intended Bill
would contain a provision to allow appeals from those
Courts to the Vice Admiralty Courts of England. There
was no restriction as to the cultivation of the soil. The
new Bill would contain a provision in regard to licences.
and he wished the Hun. bentleman would wait, and Trail
that Bill, before he made any further complaint respect-
ing the affairs of the colony, for every cause of com-
plaint would be removed by it.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR declared that he had never heard,
stronger case made out for a Committee since he had been
in Parliament. All his lion. Friend the Colonial Secretary
said in reply to his Honourable Friend the. Member for
Aberdeen was, that he was going to bring in a Bill, and
that therefore the House must leave it to him. But what
they wanted was information; and the only means by which
that could satisfactorily be obtained was the appointment of
a Committee.
Captain GORDON entered into a justification of,the Go-
vernor of Newfoundland, and before charges were preferred
against Idin, he thought it was duo to that individual to
inquire into the grounds on which those charges were pre-
ferred.
Mr. BRIGHT contended that a case had been made out
to justify the appointment of a Committee. The population
of Newfoundland was of the lowest description, and he
really thought a strong case was made out for inquiry. Ile
did not want to know who had done wrong, but what bed
been done wrong.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH ably supported the motion.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT entertained doubts whether the
Leeislature of Newfoundland could be soddenly improved.
but lie really thought a Committee of Inquiry was iiecessary.
Mr. lIUME shortly replied. He denied having brought
forward any charge that lie had not investigated. He called
on the llouse to do an act of justice to the inhabitants of
Newfoundland by instituting Inquiry.
The House then divided—For the Motion, 27—Against lo
43—Majority, la
The Lancaster County Court 13111 was read the second
time, and committed for Monday.
CUSTOM HOUSE ACTS.
The House went into a Committee on the Custom House
Acts.
several ale
sM:clCibiltiedLies:u:ollyta
siEoli;:s 1d
:aitef:
trthicei certain
aCtlliliounEt iQoefsediEuntictileusnd, :iris
would be an increase of taxation?
there l'h e
wouldC H AbeN Ca En: lienLc4r/elatseo
of f
dutythe
hUe
aF.,l,twsheiict
was much used in distillery.
Mr. BENNET
egulwisheda n with
titouknoir whether
ed to make my regulative
t w:
t itoaay

mischief carried on with regard to minerals, curiosities,
and plants transmitted to this country. These artie a '
paid a duty, and were generally pillaged in the Custom-'
house. He thought the duties on those articles might
be given up.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
with respect to articles of curiosity, there was only a De-
crssity for noosinal duty to avoid imposition. Ile should
attend to the point. With respect to the mischief to
which the Hon. Member alluded, some refutation would
be made. Persons acting is agents bad been employed,
and that practice bad 1.11 to the inconvenience complain.
ed of. Evi ry thing would be dose by way of reine-
d:. A provision would be introduced to regulate those
a:ents.
Mr. MABERLY objected to putting extra duty on
Buck Wheat, without giving t;ae snhjrct publicity.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, lie
had no desire to conceal Lis intention• tie had actually
laid on the table s printed paper, declaring what be
meant to (to. _ _

W. HUM E wished to know whether sulphur was one
et tie art*cles on which the duty was to be tl:creased.—
(A langli).
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER raid, he
' proposed to reduce the duty to Is. 6d. per cwt. withont
allowing any drawback. Chose who used sulphur for
any thing but oil of vitriol, would derive a benefit by the
arrangetueto.
Mr. I.IA IiERLY asked whether a new duty was to be
imposed on barilla.
The CH:ISt:MAAR of the EXCHEQUER said that
article was not included :a the schedule of duties they,
before the House.
Mr. HUM E ashod whether the duties on Wine had oc-
cupied the a tention of the Rt. Hon. tientleinatt.
Mr. SCARCE rr said the trade in French wines was
carried on in a way prejudicial to the interest+ of the re-
venue. The male of taking duties on foreign books ac-
cording to weight might also require alteration.
Tbe CHANCELLOR of tte EXCHEQUER did not
see that a better mode of taking the duty on books conbi
sot be adopted at present. With respect to wine, he was
mot then prepared to viva any opinion.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR 'aid it the ditty on nine was
ledn:etl it would bring back persops from the Conti-
pent to expend their money on the produce of the British
_ _ _

The Resolution.' was then agreed to, and the Report
efdered to be rehire', on Friday.
The oilier Order,' of the D.'y were di.posed of, and
the Howie adjourned at One oVock,