The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-10-19 00:00:00

THE SIATESM.I

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LONDON:

THURSDAY EVEN:NG. octenta 19, 1820.

A French mil has arrived this morning, bringing
Paris papers to the 17th inst. The health of the
Duchess of Ream is represented as being in a very
satisfactory state. A 11..y.11 Ordinance has been pub-
halted. convoking, un the 4th of November, the
Electoral Colleges of the Department, and the Col-1
leges of the Arrondkoment, for the renewal of the
fifth of the members now going out of the Chamber of
Deputies.
Letters from Naples. dated Sept. 29, announce the.l
reduction of Termini, (a town of Sicily, Id miles east
of Palermo,) by the Neapolitan troops. The Kama ,
was expected to be present at the first sitting of Par- I
lianient, on the Ist of October. Communications ,
from Madrid, represent the state of affairs in Lisboa,
up to the 27th nit. as prosperous and tranquil. The
ancient political chiefs possess neither power nor re-
s nrees to oppose the changes which have takes
place.
In the sitting of the Spanish Cartes on the 2d inst.,
the Minister of War presented the budget of expenses i
necessary for the war establishment. His demand
was agreed to. In the sitting of the 4th, the budget
of the Minister of Justice was approved of.
A letter from Corfu, (says an article, dated Augs-
burg, Oct. ts) informs us that an arrangement has
been made by the Snitlime Porte and Atit PacHA.
One of the Aides-tie-I.:loop of the King of Win'ren-t
MIRO has been sent to Warsaw, with important dis-
patches for the Emperor of Itcsats.—(Sturgardt,,
Oct. 9.)

Facsicti Fcxos.—Fire per Cents. 75E—Bank Ac-
tions, 13601.

Extract of a letter from !again, September 13.--
A report is current Isere, that Omer*, 1.% Tonne, under
the pretence of gettinF cattle, bad advanced to • favour-
able position and made an attack upon a division of
Bouvet'', usury, although the Arosistke ,‘441
expired. che lipanish General was disappointed; for
the Patriot force was much stronger than be expected; i
and after an obstinate contest, Oeneral Toast Asa
completely defeated and obliged to fly. The Patriots
are very sure •ssful om the Maio. They have the entire
command of Ow River Magdalena, and by this time,
no doubt, St. Martha is is their possession.

; The nide/sec adduced iestertlay at the liar of the
House of Lords, to establish the subornation of wit-
' messes against the cittr tx, was evidently admitted with
great reluctance by the Counsel for the prosecution.
'lley had struggled hard from the beginning to ex-
! elude the light; sad when Minx, who had swore he
hail ken a certain person with a handful of double
gulden Napoleons received from Col.•nel Buowing, was
proceeding to state the object for which that person
had received them, Ise was stopped by the Counsel for
the prosecution, on the ground that there teas ass evi-
dence to show the person in question was the agent
of Colonel Bnowstr, or VILMACARTI, or any other,
accredited party. The discussion on the objection,
which lasted, yesterday, a considerable time,• was
this morning resumed, though the question, on
account of which the interruption took place, was
put by Mr. Banrcuast in a different form; arid, till
our Paper went to press, their Lord,hips were ergt
pied in dehate open the arguments which the contend-
frig Counsel had advanced, respecting the admissibility
of the evidence to affect the person in question, as a
party to the conspiracy._

From the opinion given by the Judges ylyl'
in answer to the Last qacation priiposed eiten4.,a'
ne SKINS. it appears, that on a prosecution fors crime
to be proved by co. *piracy, general evidence may, in I
the first installer, be received as a preliminary step
to that more particnlar evidence. by which it is to be
shewo that the individual defendants were guilty
participators in such conspiracy. It also appears,
that a 'opposed conspiracy to suborn witnesses against
the accused is a legitipate ground of defence; but it
is so be isb‘ervetl. that in both (lows, the general ma-
ture of the whole ctislence intended to be adduced.
'should. in some way, be previously opened to the easel.
in order to enable the Judge to form an opining as to
the probability of bringing the evidettee house, so as to
affect some person whose arts are material and reit.-
tont to the Issue of the indictment then under trial.—
In the judgment of the Lord Chancellor. the facts &as
closed In the case before the House, were net sulkiest
to let in the evidence ; but not pressiog his objectless,
he moved that the tritons, whose expertmi evidence
occasioned the reference, to be called to the Der ; and
Lord ritsktivit put to the witness the question which
hsa previously krt. n nrrr-ra led by their Lordships, sod
which .prodiefol those extraordinary disclosures which
yesterday filled the pubiie with surprise.
, ,Tho Lisbon Quetta. which arrived yostoratay, to
the Ira Inst. are principally filled trio/ Pftelasentlese.
add itmed My the emitted Juntas to the troops NA pew
pls. Is that 4 the 4th inst. is as Order of the Day,

j issued from the bead-quarters of the Army of the
'South. inviting the Army of the North, consisting of
shunt 29,000 men, to enter the capital and embrace
their brethren in 11~ belonging to the garrison. On
the Sth, divisions of the two armies entered Lisbon
amidst the acclamations of the assembled multitude.
The followine is an extract of a private letter from
Lisb in, dated Oct. 5 :—On the td inst. the Monte.,
Ise. made their triumphal entry into Lisbon ; they con-
sisted of 19,000 men, and were received with accla-
mations of
,joy; triumphal arches were formed in the
prin .Ipal streets and squares, the city was illuminated
for three nighty, the principal part of the soldiers were
hilletted on the convents, with their old friends the
friars. The British officers were treated with the nt-
most attention and civility ; they were dismissed
' from their command, and to be allowed full pay till
the Co tes had assembled and the Goveritnent tipsily
settled. It Is thought that the change of affairs will
he favourable to the British. A vessel is said to be
in waiting off the port of Lisbon fur the arrival of
Marshal Lord Beresforil, to give him information of
what has take; place."
A public Meeting of the inhabitants of St. George.
Hanover-square, most numerously and respectably
attended, was this day held at the Haunch of Venison-
lord, Lower Brook-street, to address her Majesty.

MT. Hnbbouse was in the chair. tireat unanimity
prevailed, sod the to ,tion to vote an Address was re-
ceived with mooch enthusiasts. _ _

Yesterday a Court of Directors was held at the
East India House, when Neil Benjamin Edmonstone,
Esq. took the usual oaths, and his seat in the Direc-
tion, in the room of Sir Alexander Allen, Bart. de-
ceased.
Yesterday evening his Majesty arrives! at his Palace
in Pall-mall, about six o'clock, attended by Sir Win.
Keppel, from Windsor.
It has been reported that Lord Hutchinson is to
succeed the Marquis of Hastings as Governor-General
in India! If this be so the.coinvideoce between his
Lordship's elevation etirtlsat of Earl Moira, (the
Marquis of Ilastings,) to the same otfice, is really
very curious!
FIROIII A Coanaseosinestv—ln answer to an ad-
dress carried up by Major Cartwright, the Queen ob-
served, "1
.feel my interest completely ideotilled with
those of the people." On the same day, her Majesty
accepted fsom the Major two banners, on one of which
the inscription is, " The Queen's Rights ! The Peo-
ple's Liberties! apd, these to secure, The Psrliameut's
Reform."—Without a very early Reform, the otter
ruin of tooth Quaax and PEOPLE is certain--national
enslas'enient inevitable! Beware of those weak or &Ise
brethren, who advise a postponement of the taw" or
thetlirfiorm, till the fosse (f the Qrseem is decided.
They are not two cases, but wee AND THE BAHL; and
now that the Queen is an avowed Reformer, is the
time to cry aloud Raronss! Ramos ! Revisals!
ADDRESSES TO Ttll Qcese.—The Medal worn yes-
terday in such profusion. by the ladies and gentlemen
who went up with the rations Aillresses to her Majesty,
has, on the obverse, a highly lishilied and very striking
Ints:ores et wire Twines; bit pereeewted Qum* t, ow the
reverse, her landing at Dovervainid a royal salute. It was
executed for, and to he had mil of Mr. Pans, NO. 1,
Great Itmisell-street, Covent Garden, or by his appoint-
tuent; to give every one an opportnoity of shewing
their sympathy with injured innocence, is charged only
one shilling.

THE QUEEN.

HOUSE OR LORDs.—(Tint• MosNecc.)

The Peers were called aver immediately after
prayers. The defaulters were the Earl of Ennis-
killen, and the "hikes of fit. Alban and Argyle.

Counsel were then called in.

The Loin CHANCELLOR addressed the House, and
reminded their Lordships that the question np,on which
they separates' yesterslay was, whether evidence should
be received of the declarations of '''angst, relative to
! what bast passed between him and Colonel Browne.
His Lordship added, that he understood her r:ajesty's
Counsel wished to address the House.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he trusted their Lordships
wonW indulge him with a hearing on this important
part of the case. He had to observe--
The Learned lientleman was here interrupted by the
Lord CHANCELLOR, who informed him, that he had no.er
the same opportunity of addressing their Lordships
that he had yesterday, when their Lordships adjourned.
bat he had no right which he had not then.
Mr. Boot cnam answered, that he assumed the ques-
tion of yesterday to be disposed of by the arguments
of his Learned Friends, air. Wilde and Mr. 'I instal.
The Lou; l'ttaxcettott suggested, that Conneel
should be ordered to withdraw, which was dome af-
eortiiitgly. His Lord -hip then proposed diet kteshag
'saurus her Majesty's Cuttusel, that the vox*, tI4
proposed restenlay. could rut at pr. sent bb its
Counsel were then called in, and Mr. Willarhailk
was acquainted by the LORD CHANCELLOR eirtlkw
Ofifir Fromm*.

Mr. Haouull.l3l then said, he should submit another
question totally different in principle and in form
from that upou which their Lordships bad hem
pleased to pet their negative. Their Lordships had
decided, that he could not ask the witness relative to
what Basra told the witness had been told him
(Seaga) by C9I. Browne. :Now he (Mr. Brougham)
had never contended, that conversations of this descrip-
tion were admissible in evidence—hr had been mis-
understood—what he contended was this, that if he
could chew such an acting of Zanga himself,
through the evidence of the witness now under
semeisation, us would, by communication with
Colonel Browne :'rove, Zanga to be a party in
the crusapiracy, it was eunspetent in him to do so. He
etalkd it a conspiracy, fur the sak; of brevity ; hat
be cared mot by what term the proceeding should be
called; lee LIM ratty meld not alter the nature of
theie trammetlons.
it he VOLIIII7III.4IIVIVIAL here interfered, and sob.
twitted bathe House whether this course meld be pre-
sidium!. He had set out with raying, be Phoold pew
poor a fresh Issestiam, hat be bad, as nasal, gone into
a commove epos the ttraeral effect of the evidenre.
Mr. Hassemnui said. that these interruptions mete
highly 11110111AtilisSe. It was an interruption df his
Learned Pelead Mr. William; yesterday. that hid
mood a latiCtisiea ander which their L.,4.
Alps had the while of the day. Ile I

knew not what to make Of the conduct of hie'
Ileienda. First, they argued against 4 iptestimi,
awl then 'Miring made the most of it, II ey gm,. up the
ohjevion with a flourish. Thee seemed to have two ea.
pacities; an inditid lid anti apo i•ical caps ; and he
really !clew not how to deal with them. At ,II even?. the
Netter course would he not to intern pt, for the int.,.
raption was proluctiee of delay an I great
venience ; to say nothing of did wiidout of interTopting
him when they could no snore tell what he Cat /vine to
say, than they weld as to what was doing by the
tipples.
• The ATV'S.' VIMCIETIRR 4L said. the intOrnption
perfectly regular. The House had Betided one gthsiou
should nut be put.
Mr. Haoctowt said, he would propose another, bog
he had nut proposed it, or 'hewn a disposition to do sae
thing but argue the whole case. If his Learned Pries]
would propose a questio , and it should &prow &Net.
tionable, the ohjeslion m'it't then be argued, hut at pre-
sent argument was altogether irregalar.
The Lotto CSIANCELLON stated, that Mr. Williams
bad yesterday been stopped is the course of the ex-
amination he was taking with perfect propriety; and
he could not pee how, after what had been stated by,
the other Counsel preceding him, he could he per.
milted to take that curse.

Mr. Wm:Jams observed, that he had conceived his.
sell to he perfectly in order, according to the deci4ol,
of the Learned Judges. He bad bees about to Nate
to their Lordships what was the question and tie ii,,,
of examinativa he was proceeding with, when k ini,
stopped.
Earl Gaze denied that there was any thing irregular
in the course pursued by the Learns! Counsel fur die
defence. Irlaat.he understood to be 'beer:lc
state
cotordopifroogtvhee cam
was,
zawa:,EithwatashoenteMpfejtehsetyc'osnCospiurnatseorsl off.
decision of the Learned Judges, they were entitled to
prove a conspiracy, and give evidence to that effect;
and were also bound to state to the House, the nature
of the question about to be asked.
Earl Livaaroot. wished to know, whether it waste
be permitted that after baring opened their case in
one instance, the Counsel for the defence were to be
tucking a fresh opening on eve-y separate ease. The
House would also remember that they were to judge
the evidence in the defence by comparing it with the
opening statement. Now the Counsel had not charged
conspiracy is his opening. As far as he recollected,
his words were, " I do not charge conspiracy; bat
If there were conspirer}, this was the prLise way to
which the conspirators would act." Although the
decision of the Learned Judges had given them a car-
lain latitude, the Hens* should be careful they did not
go beyond that limit.
Lord Resume said, that the fact might have come to
. the knowledge of Counsel, of the •iihorning of wit-
Messes, a moment before they offered the pow( of it.
If the House did not allow the Learned t'ouneel *pot
this question, be would himself put it, and it would thee
be for their Lordship,s to decide if his question was to
be overruled. He had a great respect for the opinion
of the Learned Judges, and fur themselves; they hail
lung been his companions in the field of legal dimes-
sion ; bat he mast protest against that House leis/irre-
vocably booed by all they were to say. If they wets.
to stilt such a preemie*. she time 6%1'14 use be
ertdistant, when they would milliid e able to pan e 11s
Turnpike 'till withoet their aid,—(Hear, hear.)
Lord LaceitaissLa was of epioien that it woe utterly
impossible to go on with may legal proceeding, if the
Counsel was to be allowed to enter into a long argument
before every Epaestion they might choose to pet. If the
house thought the advice of the Judges necessary* this
proceedinK they ought to pay the a rictest attention to
their decision.. They ought either to be bound by
them, or not to be boitnd by them.
Lord DANNLIT concurred with a Noble and Learned
Friend sear him in protesting against that Hoare heist
bound in its proceedi-o, by the opinion of the Judges.
Ile was ready to accord to them all therespect they were
so eminently entitled to, bnt lie most at the sante tiles
be allowed to bear in mind the respect due to the dig
nity of that house. Their Lordships should give dre
Learned Counsel the utmost latitude. Every day nada
fresh proof of the necessary of it. if this was set &mg
it was impossible to do substantial justice.
The Loan Cnatscst.u.oe said, that having miseader- I
stood Mr. Williams, he regretted that he had ialsternpted I
him. It should he the object of every Judge to pre-
serve a proper respect. And no Jtylge was entitled
to that respect that did not show it to others. It
was the pleasure of their Lordships yesterday to ad-
unit that evidence of that which is called a Sellspility
should h. received. For the sake of recording the eye
nion of the humble individual who then addressed thew
he wished to state that in that opinion he did wet mem.
It was pailful to him to do it. 13u. :in calumets% sot
Ino slander could induce his to depart from what he con-
ceived to be his duty.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. Mot:imam wished to know ‘t heilier Lis Friend
Mr. Williams would be permitted to proceed-
The Cnancau.oe said that either might preereet
Mr. WILLIAMS said, be was alma to read the evielemo
when be was interrupted by the .A•torney-Elentesf. The
evidence ler was about to Froduce then was, thilt Zeogs
told him, that if he made depositions against the Prin-
cess of Wales, that leis fortune would be am& Tbr
witness asked hint how he could do that, whealle kid
Dever seen the Princess. Zany's told hint that was d
i
no ronsegnence. as he wou:d bring his to_Cooso,aob
Could show him the garden, and all the plates bat
I them; and if be would point cut
cent fad
'lan
sad surfer that he saw the P; laces, rad Bergsma ewe
brat:rog, that would be isitffieie fit,
The Cnatectuon desired the short-bawd-welter to
read souse of the foregoing questions.
Mr. Gurney read wine of the questions. mhos is. At-
tornerttenersl nounteaced a fresh objection.
The 311/LII IT•18.111tNEI: AL r.i-e to sw.ipoet the ob.
jection. He admitted, that if a conspiracy were
proved. and if it were proved that Zanga Wu a Oily
to that conspira:y, all evidence affecting him would
be admissible Upon the present question. lint Ws
learned Friends had, in their argneuenta. seaweed
the foundation of the case ; for they assumed that
which was yet to Ire proved, ~, at least. was yet to
be decided. 1 hey had assumed that them was a con-
spiracy. sod that Zanga was • party te it: anti
he (the Solicitor-tieneral.) routrnded atilt they had
vet to prove. first, that there was a eons/rimer at
all. and neat, that %Into was I party SO
that eosepieney. In rerport of ha objertloo, be
would toter their Lorlships to Mr. Phililps's lambi
urea arid:see. wherein it oak• sai:l, tt that where of-
vital perm,* bail amparobled together, for •an illegal
porpow, sly snbeequent a..t, of one of than ponseet.
, presided that fa were in ferttevan're of the growtal
design. worsts be evil-oc.. toaffeet Eiseman; aail ova
`declaration. though tin Irrastipa 0,4 by 'acts. etia
he asinsissible. provide .I the.s.: ilerierunime were is
Oar of she pa. 1.41 to bjeci." This was the law, II

I

oi Lord Stanhope's ease, and several other
'"Ais•-* °sea ease of Hardy and others, in 1794. and
eases;W
,y stone, in 1796. In the last aim the
the sties
lbw/
ly settled; for it was then held, that where
eas
bail been proved a !deb affected the prisoner,
/gal in the possession of one of the conspire-
"”-asegoojog ci reams' anees tending to promote the
Area was admitted in evidence, although the
*either written by, nor to the prisoner; and
iwtatelai osably have been ignorant of its contents.
°Too benefit of the law upon this subject, Ms Learn-
ot boas would Id be entitled, if they could first prove
;ewe existed. They had not proved its ex-
tol a ess,
bat as it was act impossible that they might
ttssnt
;rod the conspiracy was proved; be would slightly
Mach spot that part of the t 4
,evidence, and a very slig
godiwoeld he sufficient. II hat were the facts F
kgeojeg every word that was spoken by the last
oss it sppeared, that lie came with money to the wit-
. 14111.40,1 that lie came from Vilmaearti. This was
;ITO, evidence that had been adduced in support of a
wig of the most atrocious nature; a charge of a con-
tgo" is suborn witnesses, matte against individuals
tee absent, and whose characters had hitherto
hod houourable, and far Irons reproach. Never
btre
;„ hogs had be heard Counsel attempt, on facts like
11,,,0, *mama that a conspiracy had been proved.
,rhe woo atestions for their Lordships' consideration
wefako, was there a conspiracy proved, aye. or no ?
ift toospirary was proved, did it appear that Zanga
ow, pony to it : Unless their Lordships could decide
both &se questions in the affirmative, the present mi-
d ywp oodinissible, if he called upon them in the
user 409.121 KM sense, common humanity, and common
poke wiwt it•
igogooms. Riser alluding to tbe Inconvenience
oc
named by the interruption be bad experienced yea
'grosoed his perfect confidence that if be could
oaf himself understood by their Lordships, they
visa receive the evidence under discussion. Ile never
had he did not then say, that the evidence in quer,
ties bad ter its object, the fixing the guilt of a con-
spraey se the Milan Commissioners. Whether they
were pada to the conspiracy was another question, and
It to be iliscn.sed at another time. The proposed evi-
dence was against Zanga, and him alone was it intended
to is. His Learned Friend the Solichor•Oeseral had
said, that his side assumed the foundation of the ease.
Now be, without aseaniag any offence to his Learned
Friend, would tell him that he had confounded all the
rules. He had confoooded the admissibility of evidence
with the effect of esiderice, terms which were in them-
selves so perfectly distinct, that every Lawyer knew
and he was surprised that his Learned Friend had
es cssisended them. The object of this evidence was
te view the existence of a conspiracy against the Qu
and that Zanga was a party to it. What cared he (Mr.
Williams) whether the Milan Commissioners were also
press to it or sot? The effect upon the inquiry to
the OWN of his Illustrious Client, was the same,
Atelier the conspiracy were hatched and acted upon
by the Milan Commission, by Zanga, or by any one
the. There might in this case be many subordinate
emsiirators, who could sot be traced to head-
amain. Mr. Williams ridiculed the argument of
the Solicitor-Oeneral, inviting the Queen's Counsel to
call Seaga himself as a witness. Could his Learned
Freud lied in his books any ease in which a man,
amend as a criminal, was produced to give evidence
amble himself? or did his Learned Friend suppose
that &Nu would be so silly as to accept an invitation
to mew ever and testify his own infamy ; or bad his
Leaned Prised forgotten. that even if Zang' Hero
at that misimet standing at the Bar, be might by
theleiffi of 11116104 refitse to answer say mantle%
Pei* to criminate himself ?—Bat be (lr. Williams)
meld set tell, whether Zanga would or would not
some. He was charged as a criminal, bis actions were
some of the ingredients is this conspiracy, and
therefore his learned friends would sot call him as a
wheels. In charges of conspiracy, it was always
amid to give general evidence efa conspiracy before it
became necessary to affect the particular individual.
That proof, eonsiated in general of several acts, for
it was rarely that conspirators could be caught sitting
in grand Di% an. He submitted, that by all the rules
of law, the evidence in tieestion, was admissible, and
in justice, he trusted, their Lordships would receive it.
Mr. DROUG'I.4:: said that after the clear and, he might
all, saanswer:Aile argument of his Learned Friend be
had Gale to offer on that subject. The substance of the
argenest was, that the evidence sought to criminate
Zags and not the Milan Commission. If he could briog
any evidence against any other person whose name bad
am eves been whispered in those proceedings, if he
meld prove that any other person had impeded the
Melee, or exaggerated the evidence against the
Qum, be could charge him, whether his name were
Colas' Browne, Zang*. or any thing else. He was
ping le thew that others as well as they were implicat-
ed If he proved that Zane bad made as offer and
artempanial it with declaralions such as his friend Mr.
Williams had stated, their Lordships must admit that
eller, with its accompanying declarations, as evidence.
They bad no other way of getting that evidence; mid
they mast then say, that, altaitting it all to be true, it
mid net be brought in, because it did not affect the
case. The Counsel for the Bill sometimes represented
It as a judicial proceeding; and when they (her Ma-
jesty's Cminert; took the benefit of judicial rules,
they ram short round and said, No.—we say it is
not a Wlcial, but a legislative measure. Now M (Mr.
15.)Intowas that
Home. and he stood there to oppose its second readies,.
Mir Lordships must say. that if all that was 'barged
aril" lona were tree, it would not affect the ease—
y mut he prepared to say that, or theymeld shut
Ma
the im And could any one of the N.M. Jed
War sat there say, let any man pat it to himself, if tMy
*meld prove what Mr. Williams he stated, that t
meld am make them pause the name before they paled
die Bill? They did not want to prove sem, wished
.1)04 men, if they could bride home acts. And wbst bad
se said to the *item? ea You mast come and swear this
sagAestt the Princess." a aye, bet I Ilia not see It."
goes thm signify, I will make that rut ter yIN4
I will take you to the hoes,, and to the Fiww""
where akewalks with Hprgausi, and three men and ladies,
and yes must say yon saw them salute, and your fortes,
Is made." Supposing he could prove all this. this, La
order to shut it out, their Lordship most soli that It
would sot improve her Majesty's defence, and damage
ilia eliarge. And was there ever so esoastrous a pro-
mmltioat Could any man lay band os bis Imam
who lad to deride on a Bill which was to rain
his quite. an I say that sash evidence wraith sot maw
Lim pante before be voted for it ? Us
their Lordships always to hear Ice mind. that N eiIAW
ambles, whether the same of sods a mss wen laaeres.
Zsugs, or any thing. Whatever were the rev
ewer h which each arts were wmald
alwisri sift I else same geoesidretralm4paeider Ilna it
bad beea said, that there might be emmipiromy
asalpirary„ aml this evkieme might be gee tip glee tM
popes, of aeouteraetiag the east of Maw Medway.
istu44 submittal. tbet that *Wisest abutted
my be housed epos the mealse Ifteememl

irr---

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