The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-10-07 00:00:00

THE QUEEN.

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L 0 N A'
SATURDAT ETENINO. OCTOBER 7. 1920.

ifr have this morning received Paris pal ars of the
0 instant. On the morning of the 2d, the Duke
,te A,Norwtr, Madame, and the Princes and
NOW'S of Ole Blood, proceeded in state to the
metropolitan t Mach to assist at a fir' i), urn on occa.
of the birth of the Puke of Bo tDE Srx. At noon
the,. partook of the festivities antl tither entertain-
ments that had been prepared in the Cit•onire-E!oce,
tad is the eiening there was a general illumination.

The Bowe of Lords this forenoon has been occupied
eyege with the examination of the valet of the lion.
Kum INA, EN. One of the objects of this examin-
ation has been to shew the meretricious character of
the celeuriti4 witness, Demoxv ; bis interviews with
her while imbed up, by her, in her bed-chamber, Ste.
Anotheraimwasto have exposed the mendacious cha-
racter of bee friend Maaocct. A discussion of some
length and importance arose as to a conversation,
which the valet had held with Majocci, respecting
the outbid of Baron t)mpteda. This kind of exanttna-
tim was objected to on the ground that blajoeci had
cot given evidence on the subject of the Baron. Mr.
Brougham contended that hlajocci had been questioned
as to a fact which he pretended he did not re-
member ; and that this Non nil rieurdo was al-
ledgetl,in order to conceal the truth. It was not pro-
bable or pogsible that this forgetfulness could bare
actually taken place, fur Mr. Itant•ow.sM could prose
that bl tam r t was not only present when the fart oc-
curred, hit even held a conversation subsequently re.
'petting it.

ITOthit OF LORDII.—(Tres Moans's.)
Prayers were read and the Peers were called over as
usnal. The defaulters were Lord Selsey, Viscount Arson,
and the Earl of Ousford.
On the motion of the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, the
gentlemen who had ailed as interpreters were called to
the Bar and sworn. They gave in a translation of the
correspondence which had passed between Marietti and
his son. The translation was ordered to lie on the table.
The Loan Cisaxceihori then moved that Connse
should be called in. Shortly afterwards Mr. Attorney
and Mr. Solicitor-lieneral. Dr. Adams, and Mr. Parke,
the Counsel against her Majesty ; and Mr. Brougham,
Mr. Denman, Dr. Lushington, Mr. Willisiens, and Mr.
Tindal, her Majesty's Counsel, appeared at the Bar.
Mr. BROVONAM then moored that William Carrington
51 Id be called in, as &witness, on the part of her Ma-
jesty, when
The Earl of Ltvannoousase and suggested that Lady
Charlotte Lindsay sliouid ha called in, for the purpose
is! being examined as to the letter written to her by her
brother recomnsertiling hey to leave her Majesty's service.
Mr. Ilitocon AM observed, that at present Lady Char-
lotte Lindsay was not in attendance.
WM. CARRINOTON was then railed in and sworn.
Examined by Dr. LusitiarGrox.
What is your situation in life am Valet to Sir
William (Jell.
What were you before von entered his service ?.—That
was the lirst situation I hail as a t.
lint I wish to know what was your station of life he-
fore you entered Sir IVilliam Dell's service?---1 was in
the navy.
What was your rank ?---That of a Midshipman.
Did von attend Sir William (Jell towards the end of
the rear ISII ?--I
131t1 you reside in the hirise of her Royal Highness
the Princess of Wales?---1 did.
Do you remember Bergand entering the service of
the Princess?--1 do.
I n what capacity did he enter her service?--As aC.onrier.
Did you observe, that his coming into the service ex-
cited any jealousy any where ?—Noue whatever.
What was said un the occasion ?
Mr. Arroanter-UavaaaL.—•• I object to his giving
evidence on what was said."
Dr. LUSNINGTON gave up the question.
Do you remember the first night of your arrival at
Naples I-1 es.
M you recollect where Bergami slept that night ?
Id°.

Where was it?—ln a small room over the Steward's.
Who was the Steward ?—Siccard.
Did he sleep in the same room the second night?—
No.
What was the reason for changing his room?—Be-
cause it was so low he could not stood upright.
How near was the room to which Bergin:id removed
to the Princess's room?—lt was sixty fret apart.
Were there any oilier rooms between that of Bergami
and the Princess?—There were three rooms and a
passage.
Can you say who cm-ivied those rooms ?—.Yes. Wm.
Austin the first, Ilieronyrnous the second, and Dr. Hol-
land the third.
Then I am to understand that there were three MOM
intervening between that of the Princess and of Her-
gami ?—Yes.
Were any of those three rawasopen to the passage ?
Yes.
Do yes remember a masked ball given by the Princess
at Naples do.
Do you recollect the servants appearing in any parti-
solar ;hese at that ball t--No.
Did you yourself wait upon the company on that occa-
sion ?---I did.
Did you travel in the suite of the Princess on the jonr-
ney to Naples did.
Do you muember Mr. William Austin on that jour-
ney ?-1 do.
Can you say where Mr. William Austin usually slept,
before you reached Naples s—By himself when there
was a room for him ; and when there was not be soma
times slept in the room of the Princess.
Do you know a person of the name of hlajticci
I do.
Did you ever bear him speak of Ompteda ?
The Arrnewer-Ouren A L.-1 object to that question.
1 object to any conversation between the witness Ma-
jocri upon the subject of Baron Ompteda. I am not
aware that any question was put to hlajocci respecting
the Baron any
question
therefore this question cannot
have been asked for the purpose of contradicting his
testimony.
The SOLICITOR-0 ex tot AL contended, that his Learned
Friends could not examine as to a fact collateral to the
question. If they could not state what evidence Ma-
jocci had given upon the point, they were not in a con-
dition to pnt the question.
Dr. Lonnirinvon understood his Learned Friends to
have divided the objection into two points. First, that
the question respecting Baron Otopteda, was a collateral
point of enquiry.
The Learnetleounsel was proceeding with his argu-
ment, when,
Lord lIRDZSDALI moved. that Counsel do withdraw.
He thought that Counsel had no right to state in -ar-
gument, what was not in evidence.
Earl Omer did not agree in the opinion of the Noble
and Learned Lord. He thought lie was not justified in
stating that the Learned Counsel had exceeded the
bounds of his duty.
Lord REDRIIDA LI thought that any evidence of Na-
jocei's knowledge of Ompteila should be given by Ma-
joeci, and not by the witness at the bar.
The LORD CiI•NCILLLOR said it was the first time in
his life that he had known an attempt to prove the acts
of a third person, by a conversation which took place
with a second.
Lord Hasatwe thought that the interference with the
argument of the Learned Counsel had been Improper.
The LORD CHANCE LLoa ordered the Counsel to be re-
called.
Dr. LOSHINOTON said, when their Lordships were
pleased to stop his argument, he did not coneeive that
the declaration of Majocci could be cousidered as evi-
dence to anyone fact. He (Dr. L.) thought the evidence
of that witness was completely destroyed. That, hoia
ever, was not his argument. His object was to shew that
the conduct of Baron thnpteda towards the Querns was
of importance in their case, and bit argument was, that
evidence respecting that conduct was not collateral
bit that it might be consider 41 as prin:ipal. He stated
Aortrnt T —Monday. we understand, is the o thus, because he thought it was a part of their case to
day arpointed (or the °pada, d this small hut nursedemonstrate that a plot against her Majesty did exist,
tire pace of public entertainmenL We heartily wish it that it was attempted to be carried into execution, and
!Tett. encouragement : of this we ore sore. that if the that it was detected by. her Majesty, then Princess of
Proprietors pursue the same liberal nonne they did Wales; for, by proving this, they would find a
perm lost season, the sane brilliant success mast attend I fit apolocy for a great part of the conduct of her
them Royal Highness, which was attributed to her as
One of the most eatenii„ and beautiful selections a. criminal. For Instance, the fact of her always haring
Bahl chandeliers, and articles for general illumination, ' servants near bee wherever she went, and taking care
Is now oa view at the Great Rooms, No. b, Spring- to be accompanied by these and those only upon whom
gardens, which has attracted the attention and exeited she kw" she "mid depend. instead of trusting beroell
the alineicatioa of the Amateurs of Site Pine Arts. Some ; to these who were unknown to her, and who, for ought
of the fittest sprains's,* of the improved state of British she knee, might have been the subordinate .actors in
tassf4rture, are its the collection, -which, nosy sot the coospiracy. He contended. as far as regarded the
Presumption to mate. are sot, at least aisrpannad, if legal qttestioo, WA right tto. Prwildre e'rhettwee
'palled, by that of any pan cotildry. ••• Fir) Ulla potatt cpai; when examined by
. •

Wafer from our wish to withhold from the authors
of the present Consp•racy that portion of our compas-
sion which we generally mingle with contempt.
Their atrocious Facet:Mugs have recoiled neon them-
-I:lies, and they may " hide their diminished heads."
Their intemierl victim has escaped their third attack
eu bar charact, r, and on every thing dear to an ho-
norable woman; ail see now consider her MarrsTe
Per fettle oat of reach from the blow intended to be
track by that m •st d..testable anomaly, the Bill of
Pais and Penalties. We heartily wish, that every
man who has been sickened by the late filthy and
beastly details of 3laroc, SACCHI, and the others,
(not fergett:ug that lovely cr ature, UnsioNT, whose
name las been ribbetted by an alias,) we wish, we
mr, that be would carefully look at the evidence given
en behalf of Ler :.ItJESTT; and (if the comparison be
mot as insult of the gr..ssest nature) let him then com-
pare the persons who have given the latter evidence
with those uh,) have given the former. (In one side
are persons of rank, of integrity and of character;
while, on the other,' are ranged a troop of things,
whom we really know not bow to describe ; since
every disgraceful epithet in the English language has
been exhausted upon them. Many of the circnni-
stances sworn to by these fellows, have been directly-
and others almost demonstrably negatived by the re,
spectahle evidence of Lords GUILDFORD. LLANDA/F,
and (it.s:seRRVIL, Lady CsuaLovte Ltn os ay, the Hon.
Mr. Convex, and Sir W. ihl.L. There certainly
can be no objection to her Maresres Counsel par-
cling the defence if they think proper ; bat as they
bare positively falsified one part of the evidence.
they have (I.•stroyed the foundation of the whole.
As her MainaTest defence has assumed that ap.
?mace of decision which must ensure success in the
jailpest of all those whose judgment is worth a
moment's notice, there can be no impropriety in refer►
ring to a part of the case which, in an earlier stage,
it was aleno4 dangerous to touch, lest her Al AJZSTT.A
interest might be affected by the taking any notice of
the opprobrium which was Leaped upon the person
with whom she was charged to have been guilty.
ficaessir was said to be a person sprung from the
very dregs of the earth ; and, to be sure, if it were
so, it well became the penners of the Bill to make nee
of language which redected upon themselves and their
lives. However, the fact turtle ont to be, that Bill
SARI WAS recommended to her Maanerit's Chasm
berlaia in the highest terms, as a person of exemplary
conduct, aed of noble birth, though of fallen fortunes
—that the Chamberlain engaged hint withal her Me-
)sty's knowleder, and that the person vs ho recom-
mended Beau.snt, a Nobleman a distinction, em-
braced him most affectionately at parting. One eir-
enuntance, indeed, came out on the cross-eximination,
which leads us to denbt the fact of Butoamt's being
what is called of noble birth, according to the general
acceptation of the phrase, and our knowledge.of its
veal application. Mr. CRAVVE observes. " I re-
marked, from the first, that Beaciamr was neither
focar..g nor aerri.'s ; and that on his advance-
:am. he demeaned himself like a geatlemen."
Ibis, we confess, will very fairly offer an argument
spinst the assertion of his noble birth, according to
modern language; and should Mr. Arronsme-Gs-
:renal., in his reply, make use of the arguments we
trust he will have the candour to acknowledge him-
self our debtor.

7 •• T.*

The ATTORMRT•GICNCRAL Was surprised at the asser-
dos of Mr. Brougham, and asked him to point out
where any objection, had before been raised to Ompteda's
some on that Aisle of the bar.--(lmpatient cries of go
os, go on).--Ilis Learned Friends dealt in these kind
of assertions. They said the credit of Majorei was tie-
etroyea ; but they had no right to make that a. Lion.
as it was for their Lordships, to judge set that, and the
time was not yet come.
He contended that the objections were perfectly well
founded, for that his Learned Friend should produce
evidence to support their assumptions. Ile slid not wish
to impute slashers and calumnies to his Lem ned Friends,
but in his soul he believed that they were calumnies,
sod the only question before their Lordships was, whe-
ther the question put by Dr. Lusliiegton is admissable.
Mr. Bnot•citau rose to make a few observations on the
plot, wlieu he was interrupted by
This Arvonnav-Onsauaz.--My Leernesi Friend has
told your Lordships' that he had very little to add to the
observations of leis friend Dr. Lushington.
Mr. Bnovoitam.—Yes, but I have added nothing at
all. (.1 laugh.)
The LORD CH 4,:crt.Loß made a few observations which
we could not distinctly hear, He said that if their Lord-
ships felt any difficulties in deciding, they might have
recourse to die assistance of the Learned Judges.
Lord Eustis said, that in his view of the case, the
Learned Counsel had a right not only to refer to that
part of the evidence, but also to accompany it with his
continents. Their Lordships. as judges, were to con-
sider the testimony given by Majucci, and the Learned
Counsel proposes to shew tor a conversation that took
lace between Majorci and tie witn , that be had a
knowledge of the fact.
• Me. BROt'otia t hoped his Lordship would permit him
to make a few observations on the subject in dispute.
He contended th it Majoeri having to her or six ques-
tions give the shiver of " I sin not remember, or I sin nut
know," that be hail a right to ask whether he did not
only know, but was well acquainted with all the details
of it. lie hoped lie should he permitted to take the only
means by whirls lie mail m..4•ative and coatrailict the
history of ifujorci. For if he timid prove that at a cer-
tain period he we present, when a transaction relating
to picklocks occurred, and when a person was kicked
out of doors on account of it ; and if he could
prove that he was not only present, which Irons a lapse
of time, might have been forgotten, but that from a
subsequent conversation which occurred, the fact was
quite clear, why should he, Mr. 11., be prevented from
proving it. And even if this matter was slerideil in the
King's Bench, their Lordships had their own decisions,
on the records of that House. Mr. 11. referred their
Lordship" to the case of the Duchess of Kingston, and
the rase of Elizabeth Canning, which dill not occur in
that House, but at the Ohl Bailey. Ile wool.' not take a
very circuitous route, for he hail it in evidence to sliew,
that he was bodily present in the House. and can any
one in their senses doubt that he did know the fart, and
when he swore he did nor know the fact, that he did not
speak the truth.
The ATTORNivtirmitiAL expressed his serprise that
a person of the talent awl professional acumen of his
learned friend, should persist in contending that this
evidence was admissible. lie would appeal to every
lawyer present, whether, in the 'inns below, any evi-
dence was offered in contradiction to the general scope
of a witness's evidence until the way for that contra-
diction had been first prepared by asiing him to a dis-
tinct fact. It was perfectly clear, he submitted, that the
present question was merely collateral, and therefore.
not ahltnSssihle ; but collateral or not. bis learned frieu4
had not, in his cross-examination, asked the witness
respecting the transaction of which lie now wished to
offer evidence in contradiction, and therefore he could
net offer the contradiction at all. In either view of the
ease, he submitted, that the ground taken by his
learned friend was perfectly nntenal.- and lie should
sit down with perfect confidence that their Lordships
would not depart from the known clear and established
Miles of other courts, which lie humbly conceived their
Lordships wash! do, if they were to admit the evidence
then tendered by his learned fiewl.
V Lord &mums expressed his great surprise at the oh-
jeetion itself, u well as the arguments bi which the
Attornev-fieneral attempted to support it. Ile gro•ind
and leading rule which slionla govern the proceedings
of the douse was, the discovery of truth and the ad.
ministering of impartial jutice ; and would their i.ord-
shipe.shut out a piece of evidence so importani tb dot
eliciting of truth, as that which was then offered Vslbe
Queen's Counsel i He was sere they would not; errs if
the missies' rules of ',ideate stood in their way, Who
•.••• • t • :

4: .1 •

I. ..

S..

denied that they did, ant he was really to contend tb
the proceeding contemplated by the laearned Counsel
of her Majesty was its perfect conformity v ito
those rules. He recollected well that when lie was
the liar, he had over and over again at Nisi Prius taken
the course now proposed by her Majesty's Counsel, and
hie doing so was never opposed, although his adversaries
were the leading advoratea of the day. Ile submitted to
their Lordships that SlaJoeci might he called hack, art
confronted with the witness, which was • course usitady
and properly taken when it became necessary. in to
Courts below. His opinion on this subket was ,t
decided. It was true, he was getting out of slate, and it
had now been many years since he had practised, lost !lc
conceived it impossible to reconcile to any rule of justke
the exclusion of the evidence now utfeeed at the Bar.
He repeated, that if what the witness swore Ws. in MO.-
stance inconsistent with the statement of the witness
brought its emitradietion, the evislence of the latter wit-
nnieossiltwhaas already
t the adt
4ne,.iioisssii.oblur: amroial Ise
should iateonebei was of
mmitt,.lpt.b:
proceed in the way they proposed.
The Loan CHANCELLOR %Ai I, lids was a enhet o:
considerable importance, and w hates er might he is op'.
ninn, lie could nut offer it with sufficient ulers•rence whom-
ever it wu opposed to that of Isis Noble Friend.
whose practice and experience in that branch oldie pro-
fession peculiar to the !present case had been so owes
snore extensive than Isis own. Whatever then might he
Lis opinion, he should not at present state it, as he
should rreonimend the taking the opinion of the JoOgr..
on the point now in displite. It usHurar...l to hint diffi-
nult to compare the evidence of a Mall whit merely said.
that he h ail no recollection of a particidar fact wills that
of another, who said. he did recollect the fact, and de--
tailed its circumstances. Warning to the remat% of
his Noble Friend, that the witness 'night he called hark.
and confronted with her 3lajestv's witness, his Lor,,- hip
observed, that he thirtglit the House couiit not b.• boat
cautious, lest they should tweak in upon thwor
rules of the other courts to Which their Loribli:rs
had exp d so laudable a desire to conform
themselves. His Lordship concludial, by propos-
ing two questions (eiebr tring the matter in argument)
for the consideration of the Judges. and st steal, that un-
til that opinion shook' hr before the House, he tioold
refrain from giviiig his own.
Earl linty considered the objection of the Att. rney.General as very narrow, an I t.erooliArly trrhnicsl It.,
thought the suggestion tit a !kohl, that 'a•rLi
should be called back. sought to be acts sl niloon ; 31111 be
would propose, therefore, that Niajocai should le• :di-
ed in.

The Earl of Livrnecont. then rose an.l observed. tii;•t
although hr perfectly cuiuridrd in opinion n s
Noble and Learned friend on the Woolsaeli, he vrt
should he afraid to consent to the adoption of !list
opinion, and in preference, he declared lie wonlii rather
that 31ajoisci should be calle I back At more ; for in what
a situation would the House find itself if the Judges
should be of opinion that this evidence was nut ad-
missible. Their Lordships must then either art n! • r
to the opinion of the Judges. or they must •t an
apparent act of injustice by excluding evidence which
was offered on the part of the Queen, in contradiction
to one of the witnesses against her.
Lord ER4IIINC explained.
The Loin Cit INCFLLOR thought that the best Wly of
getting rid of the ililticul!v would be tv call Alasoc,•;
again, restricting his examination to that point. this
could not be dime uitl t consent of both side.; and
if Counsel had ally objection to such a coarse they lead
better signify it.
The Avrivaxxv-firxrnat., was proceeding to ar;,fle
against with a course, %%hen
The LORD CIIANCI'LLOR sug,rsted that lie had simp!y
to give, or to withhohl, his consent.
The ATTORNEV-I;ENERAL did nut feel authorised to
give his consent.
The question was then referred to the Judges, soot, to
save time, 3lr. Brougham said he would call another
witness.

LADY CHARLOTTE LINDSAY.
Examined by the LORD (lux( rum..

Hu yon Ladyship searched fur the letter which you
mentioned yesterday:-••I ha►r.
Did your Ladyship tind it
Has your lad►ship reason to believe that it is now in
existence?---I do not recollect haring destroyed it.
Has your Ladyship any reiison to think that it was
elsewhere than in your possession ?--1 have no reason
to think so.

By Lord DoNoconstonc.--l'an your Ladyship eats
the grounds of }our brothers request as it was inaje in
that letter?
Mr. llkoconsas objected to this question.
The Lord CNANCELLOR.—I understood Lady Char-
lotte Lindsay,• to say that she left the strike of the Prin•
eess in consequence of a request tram her brother ; it is
therefore, in lily ,opinion, quite competent for the
Noble Lord to ask the terms ut that request.
Mr. Ilaocuttast.—t beg pardon; I misunderstood the
question.
The question was repeated.
I have no distinct ►ecollection. It only contained
the request to resign my situation, and something re-
specting a pecuniary arrangement which was to take
place between us.
Was there not in that letter something which wouli
lead you to think,
Mr. Ilaocuusst.—With the greatest submission, I
object to these questions. This is not time of day
when her Ladyship should be asked about stmetilit,g
which lesd her to think. _

Does your Ladyship mean to say that this advice was
given you by von r brother, without assigning any cause •
I do not recollect that that letter assigned any cause.
have some indistinct idea that the reports might have
been mentioned in that letter.
What reparts I—Tne reports f mentioned yesterday.
Reports of en unpleasant and degrading nature, which cer-
tainly intlueneed me In my resignation.
By Lord E/11841%R.-1- think you have said that the reports
you alluded to In your evidence of yesterday, were not Cell•
armed by your own (Ibsen ationsand experience ; but on the
contrary, that they were contradicted?
This question was objected to am; withdrawn.
Lady Charlotte Lindsay-then withdrew.
Lord Hoke %ND was of opinion that the Judges ought
to put out of their mind all that they had heard from the
Counsel at the Bar ; and that the House ought to listen
only to theJnilger, He thought such a mode of prac•
tire muteness'l is the dignity of the House, alistinetly In
understand and to adhere strictly to the functions of the
Judges.
Lord Latinists tke maintained that so long as the op-
posite party had any thing to say on a question, that
question ought not to bepht to those learned personages.
It was conformable to the practice of the-House that
Judges slorl.l hare the benefit of the arguments of
()mussel ; and hr was cleritledlr of opinion that a second
argument should be permitted in this case fee the al-
- of the judges.
((The co-mansion of Rtie day's proceedings will he
pa-Wished in a Second Vilifiers, at St; o'Clork
His Royal Highness thooDTh'--71---t ofe York is so murk in-
disposed with a 'sold, that Yesterday morning' he finned
it would he ionpoisible for.hlro to attend his place in the
House of. Lads and If+ immediately dispatched a
nsessentre to. the Lord than,:tll4: uith a letter to dust
effect.