The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-12-16 00:00:00

Lent, but that the thought occurred to him that be
ight at least do some good by attempting a brief comment
of the speeches they had heard, assured thereby, at
-r this result of his labours, that if he faded
rn
-v interest to the debate, he might at
~poration of much of what they_
....Lensing it, that it might be impressed
wins for ever. (Hear, hear, hear.) Musing
_.,g upon what had been said—and alone, he had almost
said, for a friend of his near him had fallen asleep, over-
whelmed by all he had heard—(laughter,)—an epigram occur-
red to him, as old as,the days of his apprenticeship, uttered
impromptu in the Court of Chancery, with regard to some
noted speakers of that day, but who were all long since gone
down into silence :

east pre

t the loss by eva

Mr. Leach made a speech, angry and wrong,
Mr. Hart played his part prozily and long, -
Mr. Parker, (of Lincoln's Inn, Sir, said Mr. North, not
of St. Anne's Ward,)
Mr. Parker made that darker, which was dark enough

without,
And then the Lord High Chancellor said,
I doubt."
—(Great laughter.) Not that there was such affinity be-
tween the eloquence so happily hit off in these lines, and
that which the council had been rejoicing in, still less did he
mean to impute that there was any analogy between the
doubt upon Lord Eldon's mind, and the clear and lucid con-
viction which must. of course irradiate the Mayor's when he
(Mr. North) had done, but there was something in the V'
neral character of the debate which had made the ouotation
irresistible. And now for their individual sketches. They had
begun with a lugubrious settlement of account between Mr. G.
H. Lawrence and his own conscience; he would rather saY,
an attempted settlement, for when he had ended his speech
the account was quite as open, the figures all as ravelled, and
the balance just as wavering as when he began. (Cheers.)

' Gentlemen►

"Oh, what a taugled web we_ weave,

When first we practice to deceive"
ourselves ! Flow devious, dangerous, and full of warning must
that course always be which was trimmed daily to some eve
varying, ever vain notion of liberality or expediency, instead
of being steered right on by the fixed star of principle ! He
wondered what Mr. Lawrence had been fighting for for the
last seven years, for assuredly all he had won he had now
flung to the winds ! (Hear.) " The duty of giving religions
education to the poor" was the watch-word and gatheriq
cry of the tory party in their upward struggle—(hear, bear)
—it was now their " tower of strength," and it would be,
please God, the Shibboleth of all their policy to the end of
time, (Cheers.) After having" fought this good fight igr,;
Lawrence deserted them, not in their hour of need, an
therefore well, but in the time of their utmost triureP'!'
Did he not say well, then, that this weakness was for their
warning? Why it was intelligible upon no other ground'
Loathing, as lie did, the substance of Mr. Lawrence'6
amendment, he would not stop to criticise its form ; yet the l'
might perhaps mark both the wisdom and the complime°
of proposing to refer back this nostrum of secular education,
to the very committee who, by a majority of ten to one,licut
already declared such education to be a curse. It was 11(.)
for him to presume to lecture Mr. Lawrence as to his Fiesl"
tion in the council with regard to his conduct on this Me'
tion ; but, in justice to himself and others, he thought 11e
might take the liberty of suggesting to him the propriety 0f
retiring from the Education Committee, with whom it `vas
impossible he could again act (hear and cheers) of which opi-
nion he (Mr. North) thought the council would be, when be
stated that to no member of that body was it at all known,
until after the last meeting of the council, that they were to be
exposed to this attack from their colleague. (Hear, be°r:
hear.) The next speaker was Mr. Turner, but he was 11°'
distinctly heard at his (Mr. North's) end of the room•
conclusion, however, that gentleman told the council in rid
original language that truth was very great and won
prevail. No doubt she would prevail, but she would Or'
tainly owe no thanks to Mr. Turner for his speech-oe'
he had made a statement which, though not literall y a viola:
tion of truth, was certainly the most unfair and uncandal
distortion of it he had ever heard.
Mr. TURNER begged to move that the Deputy Town-
read the numbers.
The MAYOR called Mr. Turner to order; and requested
him to wait till Mr. North had concluded.
Mr. NORTH said, in continuation, that he was going to d°
justice to Mr. Turner if he would let him. That Mr. Turner
had said, that since the change of system, the numbers in the
schools had fallen off by about 280. Now, to enable him t°
make this assertion for a purpose, Mr. Turner had begun his
computation, not as he ought to have done, if the assertion
were to prove any thing, from the period when the new sYL
tern began, but from a date before tl,at change, when all t°'
Roman Catholics left the schools in a body.
Mr. TURNER said he had only referred to the actual
figures. (Call of "order" from the MA I OIL)
Mr. NORTH.—Such misrepresentation as this could oob`a
damage in the recoil, and Mr. Turner had been well answere
by Mr. Harbord, who told him that so far from the schools
having diminished from the change of system, they had stew
dill
and invariably progressed, and that they were rapidly
creasing now; to which he (Mr. North) might add also,
the encouraging fact. that since this time last year the num;
hers had more than drubled. (Great applause.) The neli,
champion was Mr. Hornby, of whose speech lie admitte.a,
with the greatest pleasure, that if it had been as substantia_i
, in its premises and as sound in argument as it was elegant it
expression and gentlemanlike in tone. it would have been la`.
above his (Mr. North's) praise. But it was little more dee
a romance from beginning to end, a pathetic, and, he was VI.,
sure, honest picture of abused power and undeserved au'
fering, but, fortunately for humanity, drawn only from nal;
and coloured by sickly sentimentality. (Hear, hear.) 't•
(Mr. North) passed by Mr. Hornby's denial of the right o,
the Education Committee to originate this discussion, thong°,
it should not be quite unmarked as a genuine specimen 0'
that liberal notion of liberty which claimed for yourself the_
utmost license, but denied to your opponent even the right
of free agency. (Hear.) Neither should it be forgotten the"
this denial came from a member, or at all events from a 5,11;
porter, of the former Education Committee, who, in toe'
abus4 of power, in their " little, brief authority,
Played such fantastic tricks before high heaven,
As made the angels weep."
(Cheers.) But let that error pass, for it was at once set tie!s
by the Town-clerk ; and he proceeded now to Mr. Hornig
speech proper, which was principally .directed to two polo?'
first, the propriety of conceding something, even of princiP.F'
to the desire of rescuing these multitudes of Roman Catholic
children from running about the streets—a fallacy which he,
'
should deal with by and bye • and, secondly, of an atteiall
to enforce the same argument by endeavouring to prove the
Roman Catholics could not have the benefit of the education
of these schools without a wicked violation of conscience,
which it would be tyrannous to enforce. An honest Catholic,
Mr. Hornby said, could not attend these schools, meaning,
of course, 41 Roman Catholic. Why not, Mr. HornbYe;
Because the Education Committee insisted that the 13,,ih1
should be read there ? But, could he be an honest Roman
tholic without the Bible ? (Hear, hear.) Who, then, were th,,;
tyrants—the Education Committee, who refused to:cleseera'r
their schools at the bidding of a ioman Catholic priest; °
that priest himself, who would see the lambs of his flock Pe-
risb, both here and hereafter, for lack of knowledgr th
e, aer
than allow them to read the Bible ? (Loud cheers.) r.
Hornby drew an afflicting picture of a father's grief, balac,e;
ing in his own mind the tremendous question, whether "
should bring up his child in ignorance, or make him an cl3°),.
tate from God by sending him to these schools—such aposteed,
consisting only of the daily reading of God's own ty°be
(Hear, hear.) Was not this a perfect demonstration of 'de
hollowness of that argument ? (Hear,.) Why, to have
the argument good for anything Mr. H. should have prov.eo
that the Education Committee taught the oath of abjuratl°,s
and not the Bible. (Hear, hear.) For one partof Mr. Hornby
speech he (Mr. North) thanked :he admitted that ser:
lar education was, in the abstract, an evil, therefore he (1',1„,
North) only differed with him in this, that he would not
with him the evil which he knew of. (Hear, belt,
hear.) It was difficult to collect the disjecta mernbra of to
Earle's observations—(laughter)—so as to make any replYii,
them, for the style of that gentleman was peculiar to hirnstr,
and, he confessed, he hoped it might remain so. (I.,eir.
hear.) One ejaculation, however, he did remember of vto
Earle's, and it was this, " They have put forth this manifes,f,,
only to frighten us !" Now to that he (Mr. North) dire
Ord
assented ; he had hit off, as it happened, the very w°,be
of the committee, and in part their intention too ; but at
same time they had a higher object in view than that tle
frightening Mr. Earle—(hear, hear ;)—they wished to setts,
a question of which the town was weary, finally and ins;to
and that, with Mr. Earle's permission, they yet intended
do.

Mr. EARLE.—Oh dear !
The MAYOR.—Order ! order ! jet
Mr. NORTH.—So much then for his adversary's game 'bad
him now endeavour to make good his own as well as Aor
player might. I-1 e would not say anything of those whom bebot
following upon the same side, except this, that the veil ,rrl
bit of kernel which he had extracted from all he had be:„a
was contained in the short speech which the council "id,
heard from Mr. Birkett. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Birkett Our
it was a sin and a shame even to discuss, in a christiao Cep,
try, any proposal to have schools, or fragments of seb%);
without religion. (Hear, hear.) So said he (Mr. Nor the
and that was the question, and the only question,
council had to decide to-day. He would say more, uselh
that a school without religion was no school at all, thougio
might be, for anything he knew, what is called a inecbePisy
institution ; and that he for one would never consent to P.ltir
Hamlet with the part of Hamlet omitted " by the partieu
desire" of Mr. George Hall Lawrence.
Mr. EARLE.—Oh, dear me, Mr. Mayor !
The MAvoa.—Order, order ! Mayo Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—AIIow me to say, Mr. 'Vie', vet
The MAYoa.—Order, order ! Mr. North has p 0"
which
elry,

concluded.
Mr. NORTH.---T am sorry to raise so much commotion!
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.--I thought you had done, sir'the
Mr. NORTH.—Not yet, sir. (Hear, hear.) That, 00
Education Committee should have come forward w)o-
-avowal of their opinion and determination upon this eco,
mentous question, would, he thought, be a matter of con bed
tulation to all who concurred in that opinion ; and h 8
hoped—though, after the experience he had had, it „o
rather againsthope—even that to those who opposed it it l'iv,o-0.1
not have been altogether unacceptable in its straight-0,1110
and pacific form. (Hear, hear.) The committee harter
appealed to the council; they came therewith their e""r,"111i.7
and their labours in their hands, asking either for an ett,i-iat,
ted renewal of confidence, or a revocation of their 8,n1;.;.'01”
ment, for no less decision than that 'Would satisfy tittera'
peal. (Cheers.) He rejoiced exceedingly that it had
to this; they (th&Education Committee) had now done °",;clo
thing, and that something they would not willingly °ltch
they had now upon record a confession of faith, of ape;
there was no evasion—a test from which there was no es`„^een
there could be now no middle course—no " halting bet"neil
two opinions." (Cheers.) They came before the ec'e-ttis
with a determination, resting, as it ought to :rest, uPetaeil
immutable basis of truth and principle ; and the e°"-liir
must either affirm that determination, or they ." rnad,ehe was
wreck " not of the committee and themselves, whierciple
comparatively unimportant, but, as far as moral Potend to
was concerned, of the great trust which was commit make
them all. (Loud cheers.) He felt deeply, and would re; $
no apology for speaking solemnly ; they were now
up
self
great religious question, and therefore the Almighty
lii aide
said to them, " Who is on my side—who?" Might He' old
them to a right conclusion! (Hear, hear, hear.) Ile wa the
not go through the report ; it would be enough to reinin..sioa
council of what was now the single qualification for adealacer
into the schools. It was no forced assent to doctrines hewe_cel-
pure, no compulsory attendance upon services however the
lent, that was now required in those who sought to I'Tleor,
objects of education in the corporation schools. those
hear.) The door was now thrown open to all except
.04,
who refused to read the Bible in common with their f:ell,,io
Christians. (Hear.) When he said that none were exledi
but those who by this refusal excluded theniselVet,
say more to shew the' truly tolei,ant svltenn adopted:, )
hear, hear.) Could the door he'open. w
Could more be done for tile sake of peace and nharoati
ider ?: (Hea`r, heiety'?
(Hear, hear.) " Yes," said Mr. Blackburn, ee ce,
and, as he seemed to think, jockeyed by Mr. LawrFfldio,
" you may admit the children of Roman Catholics and
v3O
senters to secular instruction." He (Mr, North) Pre° the
that, in fact, though not in form, they were discussin.g._,o
e
two propositions. To his view both were equally pernicto_l
(hear); but if he were asked to which he was least W
he should unhesitatingly say, " to that of Mr. Blackbuyo_A
At all events, his had this-merit—it was straiglitforwaid
natural ; whereas lie hardly dared trust himself to charactr:l°,o
the other. (Hear, hear.)
whatntot ioint
s; ointuvinit,htlresnp,eteotiMuirly. Baslakcirgubio
oabnj,eUtvawsrld begin
He could not— are
The MA.YOlt.—lt is my duty to remind you that You at
now trespassing a little : Mr. Blackburn's motion is it
net
present before the council.
Mr. NORTH.—As he had said before, in point of fort?
probably was not before the council ; he admitted the Ale'