The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-05-02 00:00:00

rookie all bt
ape t..ln.

fighibiET said, that ti
undergetse such modifications In
was centilitre& when iteame before
nimbi he found to eliewcit.
11111.P.Niriiiie a fe w olnier
his donheas to the effeceof the Bill.
. Mr. RCA RUMP-said. that the sells wr
was to intro for what he routwil...
duc •e • zruntly r
eryilg vrievantr, namely, the obstruction ethich ems-
to the .free cirenlation of lahoor Ue hoped, poi the
x‘thserleht disensaion of the Bill, to he eh* toihow
that it was Ire? from all theohjectious that were urged
t& 'lest the measure which he had the honour to porn
lAft rear.
Mr. AI ANtIPIELD, Sir J.Msextvrosn,Mr. JR 0N K , int!
Mr. CA LCRAFT. onggested, that the .weaseld reading
should he postponed to a period somewhat liter than at
present fixed upon.
After a few words from Captain Martatimr, the Rill
was read a first time, and the second reading, upon the
Motion of Mr. Scat...err, was fixed fur Monday, the 13th
instant.
Mr. P. t7ORDETT presented a Petition from renal
Tanners and I/eaters in Leather, iu the town of Slirews
bury, praying fur a repeal of the Leather Tax. Ordered
to he printed.

PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
31r. JAM CS presented a petition (emu the merchante,
traders. manufacturers, and other inhabitants of the city
of Carlisle, complaining of the great pressure of ilia-
teem arising from the immense weight of taxation.—
This they attributed its an eminent degree to the defec-
tive slat,-of the repreeentetion in that house, and in this.
feeling he fully concurred with his constituents- The
petitioners Iwliered that a vast majority of that house
were returned by far less than the thousandth part of
the male adult population of the kingdom. Under such,
circumstances, there could he no community of thought,
no sympathy, no kindred feeling, between the great
hulk of the people and those who satin that House to
ro present them. The people saw that the grossest arts
of tyranny and injustice had arisen from this defective
eysttm. They saw the act of Ixl9 for preventing meet-,
ings of the people—that in the same year the perpetra-
tors of a barbarous ototraee on the people assembled at
itlauehes,er had been suffered tut escape with impunity,
and that question to pees without investigation. Ilk
constituents, as he hail observed, attributed a great por-
tion of their burdens to the excessive pressure of taxa..
tion, and in this hr fully coucurreol with them. Somel
of the evils u ore also to he set down to the account elf
the receut alteration in the currency. His Hon. Friend
the Member for Portarliugton (Mr. Ricardo). in speak•
ing on this sulker, haul said that the change in the cur-
rency had mail, a redaction in prices to the amount of
ten per cent.; and on another occasion he had observed'
that there was not a difference of three per cent. be-
tween gold and paper. Now those were opinions in-
consistent with each other, as they were, in his opi-
nion, a'l iticiutosi..tent with the fact. If the Honourable
mend,: I (Mr. Ricardo) would but talus the trouble
reaulin_ two our t t re'e small works written by Mr. Cob
on this %object (laughter), and which be might obtaib
at a very cheap rate (continued laughter), they would
convince IlimAtat be knew nothing. at all about the
atatter.—(Lound and coatinued laughter from all sides.)
The Hon. Moldier (Mr. Ricardo) had also said, that the
prices depended on the supply and demand; but if he
had read Cobbett (laughter), be would have found that
the priers also depended upon the quantity or the cir-
culating medium its the market (hear, hear); and that
when the circulation was tEllell limited, the result would
be 'to double the weight of taxation. Well, hut roinlel
this ;the' ation in the currency be repealed ?—(Hear,
hear, bear.) lie feared not. It appeared that branch
banks acre to be established in the country, for the'
purpose of issuing country notes.—(Hear, hear.) This
was iritline t for if convertible into Bank of England
note% and those notes into gold, the thing would lw
of no avail.—(lleer.) The Noble Lord opposite (Imrd
• Londonderry) would find himself very much mistaken,
if he thought that lie could remedy the misgovernment
of lialrot century loiturnin, bonded wheat into flour,
and issuing.pawuhrokers' tickets to bankrupt's and beg-
gars. Mto relief irons the salt tax, it alone would be
nothing; for he was convinced that ne reduction short
of 30,090,(XX0 or 25,090,000;s of taxes at least, would be
effectual for the relief of the country.— (Langloter.)—
. He was glad in this opinion to have the concurrence of
the hononrahle encipher ter Reading (Mr. Mooch). The
bonotwahre gentleman then proneeilisi to state, that no-
thing bet entire.anal effectual reform could prodoce imr
mediate good to the country, or be any security for its
'better government in future. Thereform which lie should
wilds to see accomplished would be that which would
Rive to every member in society. He was, in
oboe', for universal suffrage. It seas his conscientious
opinion that every 111311 should have a vote, as evert
nisi was alike liable to he called upon in delence of his
mush,: lie concluded by moving that this petition for
moderate reform he brouelit tip.
Mr. CURREN slid, th..l since the beginning of his
political life be had been a friend to Parliamentary Re-
form, and that every day's experience had satisfied him
of its necessity. Formerly there was a decency at least
otseerrel towards the people el the house of tiOnimons ;
hot owe the house was so constituted as to render it UR-
wo•rthy of public confidence. Language like this would
formerly have been objected to, but it was heard with in.
difference. He did not go the length of Ida lion. Friend
iu his notions of Reforms; but any measure having mo-
derate aid temperate Reform for its obj..ct, would al-
ways meet null) his support.
Mr. RICAIIOO begged that the lion. Member for Car-
lisle would he good enough to state on n bat occasions his
. (Mr. Ricardolo) opinions Lad varied respecting the cur-
rency. Ile hed stated the difference by the measure al-
loade'd to as equal to 111.1 per ,cant.; but l:is observations
had no application to the subject alluded to by the Hon.
,Member.
Mr. JAMES, in explanation said, that as the Honour-
able Member bail ailinitteil the difference to he 10 per
rent. lie, (Mr. James) begged to say that be thought it
uas at least 50 per cent.—The petition was then read,
and orih•red to he printed.
Lard KINtiS110110i:411 I presented a petition from
the inhabitants of a place in the vicinity of Cork, pray-
ing for the repeal of the Irish window tax.--Ordered to
lie to the
Mr. ILI DO moved for a return of the quantity of
Wheat, Barley, and Oats, sold at Mark-lane within the
last ten years, distinguishing the British and Irish
from foreign corn, and the quantity sold its each year.—
Ordered.

Mr. IV EsTnnx postponed his intended motion for •
reconsideratiue of the Act affecting the currency. The
lion. Member ssid. that he did out observe any day un-
occupied, and he would therefore fix the motion for the
16th instant, taking his chance as to some of the prior
notices for that day going off by postponement.
A message froui the Lords here anpouoced their Lord-
ships assent to several private Bills.
ITALIAN N/lILIRANTS.
Sir J. ACKINTOSH said, he had two questions to
pot to the Noble Marquess opposite, hut as the subject
of them had co reterenv.e to each other, he would put
them distinctly. Ile lint Wished to know whether his
Majesty's tieverninept had received any official informa-
tion as to the liarbarotis expulsion of sonic Italian emi-
grants from the Helvetic Republic, at the instance of
the Alliance calling itself Holy? •
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said lie was al-

Subject(
illeetios • Sir
.._.
therefore rudneserne pet tiai4r
. fosusayhiels elsonli 'he perfectly f
.oil. Itemnsted, **distinctly. tint theretelfloi*
..mild only Inv, to swearer the Question Yes or NW,. in!
;to say that the public interest required him to &Cling 1
lin Sired nir .it at present. He wished to know wilt*
then his Majesty's Government hail art tulle wre•foimd
thenderirmience of the Remitting toranitresen ag
a part of Spanish America ; oe whether downr
any act implying such a recognition, sad AO
..I
intended to take toy measures for promelloVa•lNlMPeir
dal intercourse witt those rennin? • . ,
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said, that toms
. first of the series of questions just pet to hins, hi en-
steered decidedly in the negatiVe. As to the second. hie
Majesty's Goverometo in their intercourse with dome
countries hail nneleithiedly treated them as Jr fitete. go.
vernitents; had cousidered diem as Belligerents. mad
had ***Wailingly respected their blockades. With re-
gartl to the question reeling to commercial intercourse
he had sail, yesterday that a Bill was about to be
brought in by his Right Hon. Friend, which would con-
tain a clansefur promoting such an intercourse. lie-
earring to the question as so recognition; he repeated.
that none had directly taken place; and intrusted that
he should not he galled upon to Ove Inv nether siege&
until his Majesty's thererninent should hive had coolir
munication and explanation with ether parties deeply
interested in the gentian.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said he was aware then
for some time past these etreatries had been considered
With respect to Spain as in a state of civil wart sad.
• therefore the latter he regarded as having the pammeise
only of that pen which she retained by mean et aa
armed force. The United States of America had ahead
formally recognised the republics. However, after the
observation of the Noble Marquess, he certainly did eat
think it right to press the questions any further. ..
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY paid the wet*
lions had already come a little too early. Ile eadre.
stunt] that no recognition had yet taken plan on dm
part of the Unitect States of America.. It was trite Ad
! the President hail sent a Message to Congress ea the
! and feet, and that a Committee bad been anted le
consider that Message: nothing definitive- ad as. yet
I been decided upon. Ile must here beg leave to observe,
that Ilan. Gentlemen were generally a little too eager
upon subjects of this nature and assumed, as decided,
many circumstances which were of a very equivocal
nal ure.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH said it was in the recollect+
Lion of the House if lie had stated that the United
States had actually recognized these Republics. He had
qualified his expression, by saying •• almost formally
recognized them.
The conversation here dropped.
ALIEN ACT. 4
Sir R. WILSON said, lie had to !fox for a Paper •
connected with a system adopted by that same Alliance,
railing itself Holy. He factual by the Order Book, that
intended
it was to move for a renewal of that odioes
and detestible measure, the Alien Act He would net
call the doing so a positive breach of faith, hnt it was;
certainly a breach of an understanding est the WOO s.
for the opposition to that Act last year would have bees
greater, bad it not been understood that no motion
would be made for it. renewal. He moved for a Return
of the Number and the Names of the Persons who had
been apprehended in the last year under.the Alien Act,
and fur the number of Appeals to the Privy Council
thereon.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said, he trusted the Noble Mar-
quess would not this, as he had dons last year, fit dine
arguing the question upon its merits. Should he do so,
and attempt to carry the in by a mere trial of the.
strength of numbers, he (Mr. II.) woull avail himself of all
the means it ithiu his power to defeat bis object. It was his
determination in ittat case to move perpetual mijouru-
meats of the House; and if only one Jhwhher would
stand by him, the Noble Marquess would be defeated.
The motion was then agreed to.
COLONIAL DISTRESS.
Mr. M. URE, in presenting* Petition from the Coun-
cil and House of Auenibly of the Island of St. Vincent,
stated the great distress to which the West India Pro-
prietors were exposed, from not being able to obtain a
remunerating price for their produce. Ile considered
this unfortunate state of things to have arisen from three
great causes: Ist. The heavy duties imposed during the
late war, which still existed without diminution, and de-
prived of tile advantage* which the British Colonists
1 enjoyed during the war in their commercial intercourse
with foreign nations. The second cause of their dis-
tress is. the restriction on their intercourse with the
United States of America, whereby they are deprived
of the wore easy means, or obtaining lumber and provi-
sions in exchange fur rani Third, and above all, the
enormous and unlimited extent to which the African
slave trade was permitted by Foreign States. It Bp,
prated from a dispach of Sir George Collier', that six!y
thousand at friraus had been forced from their homes in
one year, and landed in the Idea& of Martinique, Gin-
daloope, and Cuba. That by means of this traffic, the
foreign Colocists were enabled to produce sugar
and ruin, at a price which drives the British Planter der
of the market of competition. Ile alluded to reports of
the House, in which the importance of the West India
Colonies was fully admitted, at a time when thirevenue
derived from them was only three millione.•whersas now
it exceeds six millions a year, and a proportional in-
crease of consumption, in articles of manufacture from
this country. lie was satisfied with the measures now
under the consideration of Porn/nat. for,relietring the
distress of the West India Planters, by opening the in-
tercourse with the UAW States of America, and he
was persuaded that fipm the ready ear which his
Majesty's tiovernmeetsind lent to the reprenutarions
of the Wi•st India Proprietors, that they would readily
give their support to any other measure which might
he deemed esaential for Si,, prosperity of the West India
Proprietors.
'the Petition was then read, and ordered to lit on the
table. _.
• en

rompletet
and sell malt
Neer, Dmi the imyeri were not slowed todrinh it
in the Hamm of the sellers. This would sot only en-
rare competition, bat would motive from the poor.
Man all tevirpration for leaving his owe tiroside.
Mr. 1110Stli also supported the petition. He he--
Serra that there were several respectable brewers, vlto
Ibesaselves would be willing to forego their. monopoly
•Iffise system were altered.
*Ate w few observations from MT. LOCKHART' the
pedalo was ordered to be printed.
• mum "rumble TAX.
Slr R. SHAW postponed the motion of *Lich he bad
given entice, for the repeal of the Irish Window Tax.
He, was induced to do so in consetinence of the favour
able disposition which his Majesty's Ministers had
shewn towards the situation of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
If, however, nothing effectual for the relief of the
country should be derided upon by the t 2.1. he should
feel it his duty to bring' on the motion, for which day
be begged. it 'night stand on the notices.
- • au ......

11r7i). 111teli'NE thought the tax ought to he modi-
fied, and said he would support any proposal for a modi-
fication of it.
The notice was then entered for the 22d.
CilliflNAL LAWS.

Mr. U. SIARTINT(O4iiXiwisy). moved for leave to
bring in a Bill for allowing prisoners charred with fe-
lony the benefit of Counsel. He should at present con-
tent himself with moving fur leave to bring in the Bill,
as there would be other and more favourable opportuni-
ties for diitusslng its merits.
Me. LOCKHART said that an adoption of this Bill
would be an aihninission that for centuries the ad-
ministration of the law on this subject hod been un-
just; and this was a proposition to which he
would assent. The present practice was most h
valuable fur prisoners charged with felony ; for the
Judge was always of Counsel for the prisoner, and of
course every observation which the Judge made upon
the evidence favourable to the prisoner was received
by the Jury with considerable deference.
.11e really
thought the Bill would tern oat to be most prejudicial
to prisoners. If under this Bill a prisoner'. Counsel
were to call witnesses, the Counsel for the prosecution
would have the right of reply, and would probably
make a considerable impression on the defence. The
last word was of considerable valve in such a eaii ;
and according to the present practice, that last word
was with the Judge in favour of the prisoner. He
should certainly oppose the Bill.
Sir R. MARTIN said, lie had forborne to state the
grounds of his motion in the first instance. with a
view to economise the time of the House. The oh.
jections of the Hon. and Learned Member were really
so many arguments in favour of the Bill, for they
shelved that it would tend to elicit the truth. His
(Mr. Martin's) object was not to defend the gritty;,
it was to promote the admioistration of justice.'
Blackstone had admitted the present practice to be
anomalous: fur a prisoner was allowed Counsel in
cases of high treason avid of misdemeanor, but not in
those of felony. As to the argument, that the Judge
was always Counsel for the prisoner, he must say
that lie had seen Judges as often'Cuunsel against the
prisoners as they were for them. In Scotland prison-
ers were allowed Counsel to defend them from all cri-,
mina) charges; and in Ireland a latitude was allowed
to a cross-examination for the prisoner which had al-
most the effect of a spe•ch to the evidence. In this
country no sueli latitude was allowed. He really
trusted the Honourable and Learned Member would
not divide the House against the measure in its pre-
sent state.
Mr. LOCKHART explained ; and, after a few
words from Mr. D. Denim', the 'within was carried
without a division, and leave was given to bring in
the Bill.

CIVIL LIST.
in reply to a question from Mr. • Mass, the Marquess
of Los UONUERI:Y stated that the returns moved for, re-
lative to the third class of the Civil List, n =ai be present-
ed tomorrow.
TUE NEW FINANCIAL PLAN.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the order of the day for the house resolving itself into
a Committee of the whole_ house, on the provisions for
the half-pay, and Naval and Military Pensions.
IiIr.GRENFELL was proceeding to make some ob-
servations relative to the extension of the Bank of Eng-
land Charter, when
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed,
that as this formed no part of the matters upon which the
Committee was to be called upon to deliberate, the lion.
Oentlemaa must he out of order.

Mr. OREN PELL considered that it was perfectly com-
petent to him to chooses this subject upon entering tutu
a Coimuittee of Supply.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER berged
to inform the Honourable fientleman, that Ohl was hot
e Committee of Supply, bat merely to consider of (piess
lions relating to certain branches of the public expen-
diture.

The SPEAKER also admcnislital the Honourable
Member, that he was out of order. as the Committee of
the house was about to resolve itself into, wu nut a
Committee of Supply. •
Mr. ORENFELL then stated, that he should take the
first opportunity that might be afforded to bins to renew
the subject.
The SPEAKER having left th• Chair,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that a plan had been submitted on Monday night to the
House by his Noble Friend (Lord Londorsularrv.) rela-
tive to the caodilieation of the Half-pay and *Pension
List. His Noble Friend bad theu descrilsed she advant-
ages of the measure, and pointed snit the immediate an-
nual saving to the country of nearly the luau of
three minions. The public attention appeared to he
much excited on the subject, in consequence of the inti-
mation given on that evening-. His Noble Friend had
merely given the outlines of the plan; it would be Isis
duty to fill up the blanks, and to explain to the House the
principle on which the measure was founded, and the ma-
terial objects which it haul is view. A great deal was
of necessity to be deferred until the opinions of those
who should become the contractors for either the whole
or a part should be ascertained ; anal a great deal was
to be left to the consideration of the House in the future
stages of the Bill. In the present stage be only wished
ta call their attention to some of the grineipal points of
the measure. It might be asked, why dial not the Chan-
cellor of the Excbequer, in the first place, snake a bar-
gain with persons willing to become contractors, and
then bring the subject before Parliament to receive its
auction ? But his answer was, that it a as a measure:of so
novel a nature, so much oat of the ordinary practice of
finance, that be did not feel himself authonsed to antes
iglu any treaty, or to pledge to a certaia extent the cos-
esirrence of the House. until he had received their sane
tiou to the principle of the measure. The plan was per-

. • ... - •, . . • . ,- - . pc ig, STATESMAN . *
.1:
......,
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,tha Hoes. adopted 1 tioliaegibt Tad ro liy _ ,Iljoa. via , y which the plait:llrib! @palely NI
. problem. '
Loomed Oentlimean:
the Bell in question hi': .. Antoine comments. • He. IiRENFELL did not think that any blame was th•
in the Committee, that he ' !Sir J. ItACettNTOSII said Ids second fierettorn 11 *1 attributable to the liceneistritlagiostatoo. Berth
afore the House, no one Noble Marquess termed to the Spaojsb Colonies of IiIe..HENETT,,ef Wiltshire, spoke is favour of the Chart
•South America. An Hon. Friend of his but pet l quer Petition. He 'hang's; •the: object of the Legislature. upset
rof which was to disceuraxe idleness, would be completely as be
iciertiiir his, thin on tairiubjitt en a Amber <Amine, and It erre-
Bill. ed
thatai dbiestiosioad been tabula, its fora. id, (sir answered by *Dottier all petiolate brew-and sill mall latioe
. _ .. _ , _____.:-- limier_ tittswitiml tits INEttora moor I,lolt Mklloavwl wearied: it ti.il.