The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-02-25 00:00:00

SIATESMAI4

HOUSE OF COMMONS-MONDAY.

Petitions were presented from the Mayor and Inhabit-
ants of Marlborough, from the Merchants and Traders,
of Ashbourne, Chesterfield, and Gainshoron,gb, praying
for a Repeal of the Insolvent Debtors Act.—Laid on the
table.

Petitions against this Act were presented from a Mr.
Creswell, Clerk, and from Mr. Burgess, Gent. Laid on
the table.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a petition from thg
tanners of the city of Waterford, praying for a repeal of
the remaining portion of the duty on leather.
Mr. CA LeRA FT said he would take that opportunity
of saying that he meant to give notice on that night of
a motion for the repeal of the tax on leather generally,
in lieu of the reduction of the duty on carriages, as was
proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. lie
would also, at the same time. proposethe repeal of the
Tax on Candles, iu lieu of she duty on riding horses.
Mr. CURW EN said that he meant to give notice of a
motion for a repeal of the duty on tallow. if the lion.
Member (Mr. Calcraft) bad not anticipated him by his
motion.

The petition was read, and ordered to be ranted.
Mr. UURTEIS presented a petition from certain hop
planters in the county of Sussex, praying. for the Re-
peal of the hop duty, which, he added, was partial and
oppressive, and acted on the petitioners like a western
hurricane:from which no one could find shelter. The
petition was read, and ordered to he printed.
Mr. GOULBURN laid on the table copies of the two
circulars that were sent to the Colonels of Militia in Ire-
land.

what they said by 'acting. The Petition prayed that the
Foreigo Enlistment Bill might be repealed. He would
not enlaree upon the prayer of the petition, but let it he
stated in their own words. But be could not avoid call-
ins the attention of the house to how much that new in-
fringement of international law had been stigmatised at
the time when it was introduced. It had been so,
not only by the mass of the people, but by those brave de-
fenders of their country, itho were ever ready to support
the cause of treedoin, and the best interests ;from. He
could not help congratulating the house and the country
upon the favourable aspect of the policy of this country,
and he hoped that those manly and liberal professions
would he amply fulfilled. At the present most important
juncture it would ire both caution and firmness on
re
the part of this count ; and he would add that, if the
obnoxious measure (y which this petition prayed for the
repeal) were not repealed, it would counteract in no smell
degree those liberal 'principles.
Mr. HOIIHOUSE felt great pleasure in seconding
the Petition—and he would, at the same time, take the
liberty of congratulating the House for the very liberal
and enlightened views which had been lately taken up
by his Majesty's Ministers, in consequence of which this
country had been put into that position which it always
ought to hold is Ilse policy of Europe, but from which
it had been hut tbo often degraded by conduct of a very
different kind. 4ie trusted that Ministers would perse-
vere, and he iviiold tell them that it was their interest,
as well as theif. duty. Little short of war upon them
had been declared by France, at the saute trine that little
,abort of war had been declared against Spain, and
through Spain upon the liberties of Europe. In such a
crisis not only the Foreign Enlistment Bill, but also the
Alien Act ought to be repealed, in order to slues the
world that, tlfere, freedom is not to be trampled on with
impunity. There was one thine which he would notice,
and that was, that the Foreign Enlistment Bill was alleged
to be passed at the instigation of old Spain : and why
then should we not listen to the same power in the re-
peal—(hear) lie trusted that it would be shown to the
Bourbons in France, what were the sentiments of our
Government. lie hoped that they would be taught to
know,—that if they were determined upon a war
against liberty, they could not escape. God forbid, that
he should recommend plunzinob the country into a war ;
for they all knew, that though it was easy to get into a
war, it was not easy to get out (hear:). He had, how-
ever, no hesitation in saying, that if such a result should
be unavoidable, Ministers would be met by the whole
people of the country. -If praise from him was of any
value, lie would not withhold his praise from Ministers;
among other things they had acted with extreme prudence
(hear!). When he said this he certainly did not mean to
apply to the last Ministry, but to the present. If the
seatiments aad the language which were held now, and
had, he trusted, been held at Verona, bad been held at
Troppau, and at Laybach ; he was sure that the name
and the power of this country would have stood far high-
er. He could not help alluding to a pemAlet which had
just appeared, and which, upon former occasions, would
have been called a Treasury pansphet—it was any thing
but a Treasury pamphlet: now that pamphlet ("The
C • • of Spain") dared to point out danger to this
couetry. from France and from Austria, if she should in-
terfere a behalf of Spaiu. But he would ask, had not
this country already beaten France; aye, beaten her on
the {acne ground? Then, as for Austria, she hal too
much' th do at home. Her own dominions were in too
precarious ,0 state; and En:llan!, by . holding up her
hogs", ld make all the Italian provinces )tart up as
one a,,
o throw off the Austrian vole.
I Mr.. ecretary CANNING hopedhe should still be al-
lowed to exercise one of the qualities for which the Hon.
Gentleman opposite had given bins credit, namely, pro-
deuce; the operation of which made him anxious to
avoid all discussioo at the present time. He should,
rkowiEoei, act unfairly, if he took any part of ,the merit
df that policy which had drawn forth the praises of the
Hon. Gentleman. When be came into office, he bond
the principles opon which he had acted recorded in a
State Paper'(we 'oppose Lord Londonderry's Note to the
Powers at Laybach, relative to Naples). With respect to
the other topics, he would recommend to avoid all dis-
cussion. He could only say, that while there existed
one ray of hope of the averting of hostilities, it was not
time to po into any debate on the subject He would
further state, that there were peculiar negocialons pend-
ing, and he was sure that the Hun. Gentleman would not
wish that they should be btokeo off. He felt it justice
to add, that in pursuing the line of policy which procu•
red the approbation of the Hon. Gentleman, lie owed
much to the forbearance of the House.
The Petition was received, read, laid on the table, and
ordered to be printed.

COLONEL ROBERT WOOD.

Mr. CURWEN preeented a petition from Colonel
Robert Wood, complaining that he bad been dionissed the
army without inquiry, and refused a settlement of bis
accounts. .

Lord PALMERSI ON said, that when he came into
office be found Colonel Wood a debtor to the public to
the extent of 3001. which he had not tried to recover,
as he lrarnt that the Colonel had no property.
After a few words from Colonel DAVIS and Sir R.
WILSON, the Petition was read and ordered to lie on
the table.

MR. 10WRI NO.

Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON gave (as we under-
stood) notice on Thursday of a motion for the production
of the correspondence between the Government of this
country and that of France, relative to the imprisonment
of Mr. Bowring.

wished to know from the Han. Bert. (Sir U. Clerk), whi
an estima'e as to the marines was not laid before the
house in a similar manner as that produced in the veer
1521 ? It onght to be mad• an annual practice. With
respect to the Ordnance charge, it bad nothing to do
with the Naval Estimates, and ought to be brought for
ward ender a separate head. He did not know what had
been done on the subject since the last Session but up
to that period, notwithstanding the many Reports of the
Board of Comnilssioners laid on the table., the Ord-
nsuee craft, as suggested by them, had net been pat up
to rale.
Sir G. CLERK, adverting to the sehject of the promn-
tions and the marines, observed, that when the ulterior
measures to which the Hon. Member for Aberdeen (Mr.
Home) referred were brought forward, lie wool(' thcn
give a most satisfactory explanation. At pceseet ho
should say, that the promctions in our shies on foreign
stations, of 12 Midshipmen to the rank of Lieutenants,
arose out of the necessity of the race, as the vessels
would have been without Officers. With respect to the
reductions e he. would refer to the present estimites,whielt
were less by 220;1100/. than the estimates of the last year,
notwithstanding the addition of 411(N1 men just voted.—
This diminotien of expence arose from the fall of priers
in the victualling yards, Nod the head of wear and tear.—
The Resolutions were then agreed to.
IRISH ORANGEMEN.
Mr. GOULBURN postponed the Irish Yeaniaery aid
Irish Arnie Bills to the 6th of March.
Mr. HUOIF: took that opportunitv to declare that he
should apprise the Irish Yeomanry Bill in every stage.
unless efficient measures were introduced to put down the
Secret Orange Societies in these. Yeomanry corps, whit's
Itched reason to know were numerous, and which led to
frequent violations of the peace (hear.)
Mr. DAWSON observed, that the Hon. Member ought
not to throw out such imputations against a great propor-
tion of the population of t he North of Ireland.
Mr. J. GRATTAN contended, that the observations of
his Hon. Friend (the Member for Aberdeen) were
wholly just, and borne out by fact ; at that moment some
of the Orange Yeomanry corps were doing the greatest
possible mischief (hear.)
IRISH ORANGE OUTRAGES.
Mr. BROWNLOW said, he rose to move for the pro-
duction of certain Papers connected with certain tr
actions which had taken place in Ireland, and to ley
which before the house there existed no objection. The
first Paper he should more for was the Copy of the Com-
mittal: of the Persons engaged in the alleged Riot and
Conspiracy on the 14th of December, at the Dubin
Theatre.
The motion was then pat, and carried.
Mr. BROWNLOW said, the second paper be should
move for was a copy of the indictment preferred agairat
the said persons, sod the finding of the Grand Jury on
the same. That motion was also agreed to.
Mr. BROWNLOW said, the third paper he sheuld
move for was a Copy of the Er-officio information hied
by his Majesty's Attorney-General in Ireland.
Mr. PLUNKETT presented himself to the notice of
the Chair, amidst cries of hear, hear! from various p arts
of the House. I rise, Sir, not to offer, I assure you, any
kind of opposition to the motion of the Honourable Mem-
ber for the county of Armagh (Mr. Browolow). 1 pre-
sume he has begin induced to submit these motions with
the determination of followine up this call for paves
with further ulterior proceedings, founded, I should
suppose, from the character of the docutnents, on resent
transactions in the Court of King's Bench in Ireland. It
is certainly not my intention, on a mere motion fur papers
either to commence or invite a discussion which will
mach more properly take place at a subsequent. period..
I confess my entire satisfaction that the intention is at
last announced (hear!) of bringing forward these pro-
ceedings in a Parliamentary shape, and that the duty bee
fallen on a Gentleman, who I am convinced will discharge
that as he discharges all other duties, with perfect pro-
priety, (hear, hear:). That the duty I:as fallen upon him.
eon to me be no subject of regret, but 1 cannot avoid
expressing my surprise, and 1 an, sure I am in the reeol-
lection of the House, that after ft Right Hon. Bart.
(Sir Jas. Stewart). a Gentleman of the sane profession
with myself, had, on a question having no reference t
the recent events in the King's Bench of Ireland, and .
under circumstances by w iich 1 was precluded a reply,
gone out of his way to pass ajudgmeut on those procee,e
ings, and declare them in the most unqualified manner; I
say I cannot but feel some astonishment that he has Foul; t-
ied that duty to fall into other hands. I did indeed expect
that the honourable and learned baronet, who had him-
self filled the office of Attorney-General in Irelano,
would have telt the urgent necessity, after the strong
disapproval he had passed on those transactions, nor,
Indeed, of devolving the duty on another, but that he
would in a manly manner have himself originated the
proceeding and abided by his charge (hear, hear, hear !)
1 now call upon him, since he has relinquished the first;
duty, at least to sustain his charge, by standing the ul-
terior motion (hear, hear!). Though disappotnted in
my expectation, I feel extremely happy that the pro-
ceeding has been commenced; and I have only to e, -
press my hopes that the Honourable Member for the
County of Armagh will lose no time in following itp
these preliminary motions with that on which he Inca's,
to take the discussion (hear, hear !). I beg leave is
submit to him the appointment of as early a day as possi-
ble, not merely in reference to my personal wishes or
interests, for 1 feel how little my individual claims are
entitled to such a consideration, but in reference to the
higher claims of the alministraf on of the Marquess
Wellesley, and much more to the existing state of Ire-
land (hear, hear :).
Sir J. STEWART next addressed the house, but was
for some moments inaielibli; in the Gallery. Ile stated.
that called upon thus directly, be should not (as we un-
derstood) pledge himself to any direct messure. The
opinion which he had given arose oat' of the reasons
mated for the postponement of the Catholic Question--
namely., the existing agitation of Ireland. That agita-
tion, he said, arose out of recent transactions in the
Irish Administration of Justice. What lie then sail of
those transactions, he would now avow in the face of the
house, and of the world, that in ha opinion, if they were
not ill et a!, they were at least highly unconstitutional.—.
(Partial cries of hear.) Had he not felt that conviction,
lie should feel great reluctance to pa a any remark on
the conduct of his Right Honourable and Learned
Friend (Slr. Plunkett), if he would so allow him to call
him, feeling as he did, high respect for his great talents
and tried worth.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to
express his hopes that thediseussion would not be fur-
ther prolonged. The house would observe then there
was no objection to the production of the dommurats,
and after the charge that had been made of unconstitu-
tional conduct, the question assure-d a character nut
alone of impertance, as it personally affected his Ma-
jesty's Attorney-General, but of the highest importance,
as it affected the King's Gmernment at large.—(Hear,
hear.) The house therefore would see, after the debate
had taken that turn, the impropriety of at that moment
continuing the discussion.
Mr. MAURICE FITZGERALD said, that as the two
parties were now at issue, he wished to put it to the Hon,
Member for the county of Armagh, (Mr. Brow:glow)
whether it was necessary to permit so serious a disete.-
slim to wait the production of papers which were a mar.
ter of perfect notoriety. It was tor his Majesty's Aettr.
ney General of Ireland, or for the King's Government at
large to urge their own motives fur a speedy discussion
Of this very grave pection. He appealed to the house
on much stronger grounds for that dismission. because
he felt the tranquillity of lieleted demanded the piotopt

,

1'

Pw''''

t

CO mmis-rue ON ASSEISCD TAXES.
On the motion of the CHA NCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER, the House went into a Committee on the Awa-
ited Taxes Bill.
Tie CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER submit-
ted hicßesolutions for rartyieg his proposed reductions
Into effect.
In •Veer to a question from Mr. Oren fell,
T 1.4 H 4 of the EXCHEQUER stated,
that persons who compannded would have an equitable
ads'antare. bothin the taxes absolutely repealed and those
redacted:a imul, in reply to another rules ion from, we be-
lieve, Mr. Lister, he ihserved, in illustration of his view,
that wheuran individual paying 1001. assessed tins was
allowed. the 5 per cent. or the additional per mintage on
the composition, be would, wider the new artangemeot,
betortti.l-d to the same per courage on half die 1001.
The Resolutions were raid—Report on Friday.
eltiineolier of the Exchequer's (Ireland) Bill was
' rettortestand ordered tole mail a third time this day.
(lie CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave
notice that hn would move for a Commttteerlf the whole
House on Friday on the Irish Assessed TaxesT 'and he
• likessOe gave notice that he would, en biouttiy next,
ntove for a Committee on the Sinking Fund 'Act. fith a
vimv tit laying before them his new plan relotive Yu that
subject...
• "'MS'S War exxstoess, IRELAND. •

. ,

interposition of Parliament, with the hope of calming
the existing irriution—(bee, hear) He hail left Ire-
land very lately, and be was sorry to add, he left the two
parsecs in a state of temper and disposition not be other-
wise allayed. He was certain, whether he adverted to
the mashies of his Hon. Friend the Attorney General for'
Ireland, ur in the interests of the King's Government. or
to the necessity to tramptillise the present agitation in
Irehted, (hear) it was of the highest importance that the
discuss.o.i should not be delayed. It was desirable to
ascertain who the parties were who had an interest in
sarponement. The house could obtain no information
(rein doeuments.—(Hear, hear.) It would he ne-
eessary to, insole-e into the causes which produced the
state arthinga new existing in Ireland.—(Nest, hear.)
The house, without these papers, was fully competent
to proceed to use discussion, and with such great inter.
ests at issue be hoped it would be pressed forward.—
(Hear, heart)
Mr. CKOK ER observed, he saw the two first motions
agreed to with considerable pain. He shoald have felt
it his duty to have objected, did he not fearthtt it might
have been deemed presumptitoos. A question connected
with the administration of justice in the Courts of Law
was one with which that house scarcely ever interfered
without votive, or acceded to as a matter of Course. It
woul I be much more consi-tent with the views of the
Legislature, and compatible with the usage of Parliament,
that a notice should be given of the intention to move
for these documents, and on that motion to take the pre.
3saan*ry discussion. He thought tbat was the more ex-
pedient course to take on the remaining document, rather
than to estat.lish the dangerous precedent of interfering
with the proceedings of the Courts of Law, as it were
per salt etas.
Air, BROWNLOW stated, that lie that day submitted
to the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr.
Peel) and to the Secretary for Ireland (Mr. Gonlburn)
the motions which he had made, and he learned from
' both those Gentlemen, that they saw no objection to the
pro faction of these documents. He had also submitted
Ursa to his Majesty's Attorney for Ireland, in the House
slat evening, and by him no objection was made. He,
therefore. could not see either that any difficulty existed
'or blame attached to him for the course he had taken.
(hear, bear !) It was his intention after he had obtained
these preliminary and formal motions to fellow them up
by an ulterior measure. He wished he could have fixed
upon an immediate day for the discussion, as he was ap-
prrh-nsive lest it might he snpposed, as the question had
slept eft long. that the silence in that Loose would be con-
armed into its sanction of those proceedings. It was his
wish to bring the question forward on the earliest con-
venient day after the ensuing recess. He should that
night look over the paper to ascertain bow the business
of the house was fixed, and endeavour to fix • day as
near is possible to the 17th of April, for which day the
question relative to the Roman Catholics stood.
air. ABERCROMBY, though he felt sorue difficulty
as to the manner of disposing of this question previously
to the ultimate discuesien, yet could not acqu'esce In the
objections of the Hon. Secretary of the Admiralty as to
the danger of the precedent. Were the legal proceedings
still pending there might be great impropriety in acqui-
(seeing, without notice, in the motion ot the Den. Member
for the county of Armagh. Bat it was admitted that
these proceedings were terminated, and therefore the oh-
jeclon did not apply. The difficulty he felt was, how,
simply on these papers, the Hon. Mover could ground his
ulterior measure. Were it for a defect of legality, he
then might; bat as the charge was now moved of their
unconstitutional nature, it would be necessary to go into
tine consideration of the whole case—of the causes which
led to the present state of things in Ireland (hear.) The
Hon:Mover would therefore see, that even when be had
gut tbiie documents, he had gained no step in his progress
to his ulterior measure. He (Mr. A.) thought that the
mere plan co u roe was to take the preliminary discussion,ou
eth ch he should found his ul•eriar measure, which he
supposed to be a vote of censure, on marine. for the do-
cements: There was another difficulty which weighed
much with Lint, and which he begged to im-
press ea the consideration of that House, no twitter what
his sentiments were, whether frierldly or hosed* to
the Roman Catholics, namely, that the discussion on the
late transactions in Ireland should, ball means, he dis-
cassed previously to the time fixed for the consideration
of that moat insportatit question. Ii was Lis firm convic-
tion, and he thought it must be that of every Hon. Metu-
bit, that it was essential to the best interests of Ireland
a 6.1 orthe einp4v, as well as to the grave deliberation of
the Catholic claims, that the recent transactions should
be drat invireti into by that House (hear, hear!)
Mr. BKOWNLOW'said he never thought it necessa-
ry, upon tnoving fur papers of notoriety and of public re-
card, so state the'specilic reasons for his motion ; he also
ratted that Hates his intention that the discussion of the
qasetion should precede that on the Catholic Claims.—
Mot ion granted.
. •
• siststax ENLISTMENT RILL.
Mr. BROUGHAM stated, that in consequence of a do-
mestic afiliction, his Noble Friend, (Lord Altborpe) who
had given notice of a motion for a repeal of the Foreign
Rplistment Bill, was not able to attend, and. it devolved
cut him to withdraw the notice of that motion ; and, on
account of the important statement which had been made
en the subject that night, he wished to postpone it gene-
tiny [or tire present.

Mr. 11L31F, said, lie was flit aware that any ()Median
wn•ild Inc jaken to the motion which he was about to sub-
mit.• it.apprared hy paper.; which Ind been laid before
Parl;aanenr lilt Session, that awe was a sum of 12781,
paid as pensions or retired allowances in Ireland, to per•
eons deu moinated lkiode-Mayors of Yeorninry in that
country. He wished this matter explained. ' lie was not
aware that any officers of volunteer corps ever 'et:rived
Jt tlfepay, tit.by the returns of last Sesainns, it appeared
that there was an amount of 400,01'01. paid in pens'.ons
and satiric, in that ►art of the empire. With respect to
the pensions immediately in Ide vie', hp %%idled to ulcer.
taln to the first place, whether they were granted by pro.
per anthoti"; and in the serond, whether the indivi-
duals enjoying them were inch as wcr • properly entitled
ta receive them ? If the house referral to the Act of th.•
:al•b Geo. 111. cap. 3, they would find that there were nn
still 1•c• alinw"t-es grimed ender it, nail in what light
14 t;:t1 the pensions to Which he alluded be considere

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