The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-01-07 00:00:00

rents dissenting from the religious teaching there given. He
felt that it was unnecessary for him to vindicate the gentle-
men who acted with Mr. Smith on the occasion to which
that gentleman had alluded. Mr. Smith, it was evident, had
not made the important discovery which he would have the
council to believe. There was an essential difference between
Mr. Smith's proposition and that of Mr. Birch. The latter,
at that time, was unfortunately in a minority. He had no
power to obtain what he wished, and was obliged to be con-
tent to take what he could get. (Hear. hear.) He, being
truly a liberal, thought the liberality of " liberal" gentlemen
would, seeing that they had deprived the Protestant commu-
nity of their own schools, give him a small proportion of
that which was honestly due. Therefore, Mr. Birch was
perfectly consistent in moving that new schools should
be erected and continued, on the principles on which
the old schools had formerly existed in the borough,
namely, on sound Protestant principles. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Birch only so far consented to the new system be-
cause he could not successfully oppose it ; and those
who voted with him voted consistently. Mr. Smith, how-
ever, proposed the very reverse of this, and he might re-
concile his course now with his course then as he best could.
(Hear, hear.) The case of Mr. Birch furnished an ad-
ditional weapon to the conservatives ;.because, if the just and
equitable concession he pleaded for were not conceded, it was
by no means difficult to see from what quarter the bigotry,
cruelty, and intolerance,-of which they had heard so much,
first proceeded. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) Neither
could it have escaped the recollection of the council that
when the change in the system of education here was first
contemplated, the Rectors memorialized the council ; and,
with a liberality which did them and their brother clergy
great honour, offered, if the corporation would give them up,
to take the schools into their own hands and provide the
whole funds necessary for their maintenance. (Hear, hear.)
How this offer was received he, (Mr. B.) need not inform the
council. The spirit evinced by the " liberals" when in power,
he admitted, formed no reason why conservatives should now
retaliate ; but it was nevertheless necessary that they should
not lose sicht of weapons which their opponents had placed
within their grasp, nor fail, by opposing facts of illiberality
to arguments which had been used against themselves, to
turn those weapons to the best account. (Hear, hear, and
cheers.) With regard to the exclusion of the Roman Catholic
children from the schools, he had a hope, not unreasonably
founded, that a very large proportion of them would con-
tinue in the schools. From a statistical return it appeared
that there was not a protestant school in Liverpool in which
there were not very many Roman Catholics. In Ireland—
the hot-bed of Roman catholicism—there were 22,000 chil-
dren of that persuasion in the protestant schools. (Hear,
Fear.) So far as he was concerned, if the Roman Catholic
; .iests would consent to give the Douay translation of the
Testament, without note or comment, he would consent to
receive it. Respecting this view there might be some differ-
ence of opinion ; but he bad examined the two translations
for himself ; and further, had received &confirmatory opinion
from a clergyman in whose judgment he had the highest
confidence. Hewould read to them an extract or two which
would show, that it is not for the Douay translation which
the Romish priests themselves contend, but for the notes which
accompany it. "It appears that several gentlemen in Lon-
don formed a plan for printing and circulating the Douay trans-
lation. In this they were at first encouraged by the Rev.

Peter Gandolphy, a Romish priest in that city, who declared,
on behalf of himself and brethren, that they would be ready
to circulate the Bible, in English, among their people, if any
society would give them their own translation." The Rev.
P. Gandolphy says, in a letter to the Rev. Wm. Marsh,—
" If any of the Bible societies feel disposed to try our esteem
for the Bible, by presenting us some copies of a Catholic
version, with or without notes, we will gratefully acccept,
and faithfully distribute, them." When, however, his offer
was embraced, and Protestants were about to give him copies
of the New Testament in his own approved version, he found
out, or " he feared it would oppose a principle of his church,
if Catholics were to print the Scriptures in the vulgar tongue
without notes;` and that they could not allow the En-
glish Bible without them, because ignorant persons would
misinterpret certain important texts, unaccompanied by
explanations." These facts have been very extensively
circulated, under the title of " Correspondence on the For-
mation, Objects, and Plan of the Roman Catholic Bible So-
ciety," 1813. Now, had he (Mr. B.) not effectually ag-
swered, by these facts, the charge so constantly brought
against the conservatives, that they were about to exclude
the Scriptures from these schools ? It was here proved that,
supposing we were willing to give to Roman Catholics their
translation, upon the same terms on which we gave our own
—namely, without note or comment—they would not be
content to receive it. (Hear, hear.) It was not, then, for
the Scriptures, as such, which they contend, but for their
church's comments. The doctrines contained in these com-
ments he could not consent to teach ; seeing, as he would
prove if necessary, by the notes which he held in his hand,
that by the notes themselves, and, as he believed, not by the
text, were popish principles alone inculcated. Let us hear
no more, then, about depriving the Roman catholic children
of their Bible ; if they be deprived, let the blame rest where
it was so justly due. (Hear, hear.) He must apologise for
occupying so long the attention of the council, but he de-
sired to touch one other point. It was the fashion in these
" liberal" times to seize upon every opportunity to direct
" heavy blows and great discouragement," not only against
our church, but her ministers. Let any established prin-
ciple be contended for, and it was immediately denounced as
" bigotry and intolerance." Members of the establishment
are not permitted to declare any conscientious opinion. And
even with those who do not go to this extreme length, and
who consider themselves friendly to the protestant church,
there is a yielding and a truckling to what are called liberal
opinions which are utterly contemptible. (Hear, hear.) To
show how different is the course of the Romish church in
such matters he would read to them an extract from a letter
from Rome, addressed to 'each of the popish archbishops
of Ireland. It was given) at Rome, at the Propaganda, the
16th January, 1841, on the questions involved in the con-
troversy which has been raised in Ireland on the subject of
the new system of national education :
" Ist.—That all books which contain any noxious matter
either against ,the canon or the purity of the sacred scrip-
ture, or against the doctrine of the catholic church, or
morality, ought to be removed from the schools ; and this can
be more easily effected, because there is no law of the said
system opposed to it."
" 2d.—That every effort is to be made that none but a
Roman catholic preceptor shall give religious, moral, or
historical lectures to the catholic schoolmasters in the model
schools ; for it is not fitting that a catholic should be taught
the method of giving instruction in religion or religious
history by one who is not a catholic."
" 3d.—That it is much safer that literary instruction should
be given in mixed schools, than that the fundamental arti-
cles, as they are called, and the articles in which all Chris-
tians agree should alone be taught there in common, reserv-
ing for separate instruction the tenets peculiar to each sect ;
for this manner of acting in regard to children, appears very
dangerous.
" 4th.—That generally the bishops and the parish priests
should carefully watch that no taint be contracted by the
catholic children from this system of national instruction,
through any cause whatever. That the sacred congregation
is also of opinion that it would be very useful that the school
houses should be vested exclusively in the bishops or the pa-
rish priests. That it is also their duty strenuously to endea-
vour to obtain from the government, by degrees, a better
order of things, and more equitable conditions."
This (Mr. B. continued) is the uncompromising course of
our opponents; exhibiting a diligence, a watchfulness, and a
firmness which we should do well to imitate. (Hear, hear.)
After alluding to the plan of separating the Protestants from
the Roman Catholic children in the schools at the time of
singing and prayer, he concluded by suggesting to the wealthy
Roman Catholics the propriety of imitating the conduct of
the Protestants, should their children be really turned from
the schools, and subscribing, as did the latter, £15,000, ra-
ther than their children should suffer through the want of
education.
Mr. PARKER said, that, before he expressed his sentiments
on this momentous question, he must be allowed to observe
upon some personal remarks which, coming from a gentleman
of Mr. Earle's station in life, were anything but gentlemanly
remarks. But to be chastised, or attempted to be chastised
by that individual in company with such a man as Mr.
M'Neile was the highest compliment that Mr. Earle could
have paid him. Though Mr. Earle drove about in his drag,
and talked about his education and descent, he (Mr. Parker)
was not ashamed to allude to his lineage, who had fought and
bled for the principles which he stood in that council to ad-
vocate. (Hear, hear.) The most appropriate word in the
English language that he could apply to Mr. Earle's senti-
ments was that of " humbug ;" for from one end to the other
of his speech it was nothing else. He believed that the edu-
cation question had been the means of turning many of the
radical members out of the council, and that the rest of them
had got notice to quit. It had been said that the conserve-
live members bad been dictated to by the Protestant clergy;
but such was not the fact. Had the Protestant clergy memo-
rialised the council ? No ; but, on the contrary, the Roman
Catholic clergy had done so. Four-fifths of the population
of the town were in favour of scriptural education in the
schools, and before the next council-day sixteen petitions
would, if necessary, be presented in opposition to the one
which had emanated from the burgesses of Castle-street
Ward. He concluded by saying he should support the pro-
position of the Chairman of the Education Committee.
(Cries of " Vote. vote.")
Mr. GEORGE HALL LAWRENCE said, though he intended
to vote in favour of the proposal that Mr. Turner had sub-
mitted, he was bound to say he must do so with some quali-
fication and restriction, inasmuch as it held out a desire to
encourage secular education independently of religion—a
proposition which he confessed he had some hesitation in
affirming. He had enquired right and left from various
friends whom he had met of all parties, and in particular
he had had several conversations upon the subject with a
reverend and near relative of his, upon whose opinions he
placed great reliance, and by whose advice he wished to act.
He must confess, however,: that he had not been able to
arrive at the same conclusions as his respected relative, al-
though upon many points they entirely agreed. After some
further, observations to the same effect, Mr. Lawrence con-
cluded by reading some extracts from a letter from his
relative, and said he should under all circumstances feel
bound to vote for the amendment.

Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE said that if Mr. Lawrence, at the
commencement of his speech, had not boldly told the coun-
cil how he intended to vote, he should have concluded after
his speech that he would have voted quite differently to what
he had said he would. He had informed the council that he
had consulted right and left every one with whom he had come
into contact; but he (Mr. Moore).feared from the tenor of
his speech, and from his intended vote, that he had at last
got between two stools and fallen to the ground. (Hear,
hear.) It would be a matter of great regret to him (Mr.
Moore) if anything of the sort that was now proposed by the
committee should have the effect of driving from the schools
the Roman catholic children ; he did not apprehend that this
would be the case, but as touching the admission of more than
version he would not consent to that. He did not agree
with Mr. Bushell, who said he saw no objection to the intro-
duction of the Douay version. He (Mr. Moore) confessed
he bad never read the Douay version till after the last meet-
ing of the council ; he bought one then, and perused it ; and
he therein found not only idolatry taught, but a variety of
of objectionable matter that might be particularly noticed,
and if any gentlenian wished it he could give instances of that.
(Cries of no, no," and "go on.") He was one of those
who was disposed to let the community have the full benefit
of the Bible without note or comment as far as it could be
done ; but the same law gave them an authorised version of
the Bible and which constituted them trustees for the publ
recognised none other, therefore, he, for one, could not re-
commend any other. They, as petty law makers, and hum-
ble imitators of parliament, were bound not only by the de-
claration which they had subscribed on going into that coun-
cil not to injure the church, but to set an example of obedi-
ence to the laws, and their first point should be that they re-
cognised only one Bible to the exclusion of all others.
It was much to be regretted that this council should have
meddled with anything involving theological opinions ; but
as this necessity did unfortunately devolve upon them, they
must deal with it as they best could, and in the kindest feel-
ing towards those who differed from them. It was a matter
of great satisfaction to him that in this particular they had
the law of the land to guide them into just conclusions • and
the law of the land distinctly recognized one Bible to the ex-
clusion of every other.
A COUNCILLOR—No, no.
Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE—Did the law of the land recognize
any other ?
Mr. FREME said the law of the land did not recognize any
Bible at all. There was nothing about it in the municipal
act.

Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE would like to ask gentlemen if they
wished to have more than one version of the Bible, if they
would have the Arian Bible, the Swedenborgian Bible, the
Douay Bible, and the Unitarian Bible ?
Mr. BARCLAY inquired what was the Unitarian Bible, for
he had never heard of it.