The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-06-06 00:00:00

'IIIE STATESMAN.

4111111:11
fore disclaimed, and I do now again solemnly dis. the selection of the Domes to Lords Grey and Grin.
claim so unworthy, so dishonourable a feeling, vine,. without any instruction or personal exclusion;
unfit to have place in the minds of public men,
that in completing the arrangements, the Prince Roe
at any period, but above all most unfit to have gent has granted to Lord Wellesley the entire liher-
place in the mind of any man wino entertains Ity to propose the names of any persons to hold places
the design of partaking iti the Adniinistra- in his Royal Highness's Councils, or any other per.
tion of the affairs of the country, at this awful sons.'
and momentous crisis.—[Hear,
I '• This, my Lords, was the proposition made to
her rj—lbul my
Noble Friend confined himself
to an exteanetion I us, and which we understand as naming particular
merely upon this subject, I should not have felt the persons, and as limiting, circumscribing, and pro-
smallest disposition to trouble the House on the pre- iitlitig, by previous stipulated arrangenient, that par-
seut occasion with a single word ; for I concur with 1 ticuler places shall be assigned to slut particular
hits, at this moment it is desirable that all discussion persons. Under such circumstances, I need scarcely
upon the general question should be as much as pos. , add, that the proposal met with my decided refusal,
bible avoided : but I cannot help remarking, that al-1 sanctioned by the concurrence of my Noble Friend
though I doubt not my Noble Friend's understand- before me (Lord Grenville), after consultation with
ing, I think he has asserted what is by no means cor. my Noble Friend behind me (Lord Holland). It is
rect. I must take leave to state, that the impression true, the suasequent explanations have been afforded
made upon my mind by an official and authorised by the Noble Earl (Moira), but without professing
paper, which 1 was called upon to consider, is com. to have any instructions or authority from the Prince
pletely at variance with that which he has expressed. Regent. In doing so, I give him full credit for
It was distinctly notified to me in that document that', that anxious desire to promote the interests, tran-
the Prince Regent had signified his Royal pleasure , quillity, and prosperity of the nation, which,
as to the persons who should fill particular otitces, thienighout life, he has uniformly displayed.—[leart
Four individuals were expressly named, and the place : her. r!]—These explanations were, however, private
they should occupy as Members of the Cabinet,' and personal, for the purpose, as he conceived, of
poin • ted out in the written proposal that was submit. removing• an imputation on his conduct; but as I
ted to my inspection. It is necessary for me to give ' have before said, they were not of an -official cha.
this explanation, because upon that understanding of , raster. That he was not vested with any powers for
the words, to my mind obvious and unequivocal, : this purpose, is confirmed by a letter from the Noble
rested the decision which I felt myself compelled to : Marquis, who, referring to these explanations, stated
form. I sincerely regret that the Noble Marquis, distinctly, that neither he, nor the Noble Earl, had
principally instrumental in these transactions, is not . authority to make any but private communications,
now present to state to the House his construction of and he expressed his regret, that they had not the
the terms employed, thus affording an explanation : Prince Regent's express commands to enter into such
equally important to himself and to the country." j explanations as he deemed necessary. I have thought.
Earl MOIRA.—" You must, my Lords, be sen. ' it due to myself, and to my friends to notice dis-
sible, that were I to discuss the subject alluded to ' tinctly these facts, and they were further necessary
by my Noble Friend, who last addressed you, I 'in answer to what fell from the Noble Earl, on the
should enter upon an invesgation as impolitic, as la- subject of the delay which has occurred. To the pri-
borious and irregular, because it is impossible that ; vate confehunications, with the concurrence of my
the House should be able to exercise a mature' Noble Friend, I returned a prompt answer, in which
judgment, or to form a deliberate opinion, when i I referred to the former official paper, containing the
there are no facts before it to afford the requiste in- authorized proposal upon which I had already cone.
formation. [Hear, hear!] It would be the more ' munica ted my determination; at the same time, I
improper, in the absence of the individual who is , felt that these personal explanations, if subsequently
most materially and immediately concerned. With , sanctioned, might remove some of the obvious ob-
respect, however, to the conduct of the Noble Mar- . jections to the detail, yet they in no degree altered
quis, I would observe, that in my humble judgment it i the general principle, on which I had rested my pre.
is impossible that any man placed in a situation .of i lions decision. Thus much, it appeared necessary
such difficulty, could have conducted himself with ', that I should say, to prevent the possibility of mis-
more high honour, or mere delicate uprightness.— , apprehension, and I lament sincerely, that in conse.
[Hear, hear!] Whenever this important subject . quence of the speech of the Noble Earl, it was
shall be discussed, in which the Noble Lord must ne- utterly impossible for me to remain silent."
eessarily take a prominent part, and the House is; Earl MOIRA.—" The great difficulty that has
called upon to declare its decision, all persons, I am arisen rests solely upon the construction to he put
well assurer:, will be convinced, that what I have upon the document from which the Noble Fail has
stated is strictly t?tie. As to the particular point to read a passage, and I confess, that they strike my
which my Noble Friend has alluded, I believe that ! understanding in a point of view directly opposite.—
its obscerity is owing to a deficiency of information: The Noble Lords would probably have thought with
I imagined that some misapprehension must have ex- me, if they had possessed the same mane of judg_
isted, and if any delay has been experienced in the , ing ; for in a previous interview with the Noble
establishment of an Administration, lam persuaded' Marquis, I had an opportunity of knowing the real
that it has bee,i in a great degree, if not solely, at. : sentiments by which he was actuated in drawiqg up
trihutable to an unfortunate misconception. When : the written proposal. The Noble Marquis will
it shall have been removed, negociations, I trust, may i hereafter have an opportunity of bearing testimony
be renewed in those quarters where talents reside, most , to the correctness of my statement ; the whole sub-
essential to the due discharge of the arduous. nine- , ject was opened with a spirit of the utmost fairness,
tions of the state. If delay have occurred, I am i and with a sincere desire to leave ample room for
convinced that it has arisen from an earnest desire ton subsequent discussions and arm ngen ents.• With re-
obtain assistance from a source most adequate, and ' gard to the nomination of individuals, it was to be
not unwilling to afford it." , understood to be a mere statement of a wish on the
Earl GREY.-44 It is far from my wish to pro. pot of the Illustrious Personage, who administered
long any discussion on this subject, in the state ip I the power to the Noble Marquis, and it was natu-
which it at present stands, and I should certainly rally believed that the names introduced would be
have done what my Noble Friend (Lord Grenville) acceptable to the Noble Lords, because they shewed
stated to be his intention, namely, abstained from; the amicable tone and disposition in which the pro_
troubling the House with a single word, if the state- posal was made. For the lest seven years it is
ment made by the Noble Earl who spoke last, had ' known that I have not belonged to the party usually
not placed me in a situation where it was necessary , designated the Opposition, and though free from all
to clear myself at least from misapprehension. It is political engagements, yet our views in general have
unquestionably my wish that no ex parte statements been so accordant that I have voted with them, per-
should go forth to the world before the whole cf this ' haps upon more occasions than even some of those
important question shall be thoroughly and corn- Noble Lords who have been styled their firm political
pletely examined ; but it is above all things noses-' friends, and this circumstance may shew at least,
sary that I should stand clear in the opinion of your 1 the disposition with which my name, with others,
Lordships, and in the estimation of the public, and I was inserted as an individual to be honoured with a
if an erroneous assertion have been hazarded by my ; seat in the Cabinet. I see likewise a Noble and
Noble Friend (Lord Moira), however pure may , Learned Friend (Lord Erskine) whose name will
have been his intention, I must beg leave to correct likewise be noticed, and to whom the same remark
it: if it he directly adverse to the judgment I have ' will apply. I can conceive nothing that more deci-
formed after due deliberation, it is necessary that I ' sively and unequivocally shows the intention with
should state to this House and to the country, that : which the proposal was framed, than the circum-
in the decision I adopted, I was guided, as I think stance that it points to the political friends of those
correctly, by a diametrically opposite interpretation. to whom it is addressed. The House will also re-
-1 understand the Noble Fart (Moira) to maintain, ' mark, that there is no designation of particular offi-
in the first place, that the Prince Regent, in the ces, or indeed of any one office, so that all was left
communication his Royal Highness thought fit to open to the fullest discussion, and I shall be much
make to my Noble Friend below me, had named no • surprised when the Noble Marquis is afforded an op_
particular person to fill any particular situation ; and portunity of making his statement, if he does not
in the second place, that the proposal came to us per. t confirm my opinion, that his instructions were ditto
fectly uncircumscribed end unfettered by previous' most.geueeal and liberal•riature I will even go fur-
stipulations. That the Noble Ettil dues so under- thee, for unless the nature of the interview between
stand it I cannot for an instant doubt, and I, much the Noble Marquis and the Noble Lords was of a na-
lament that the Noble Marquis, who was the than- tare entirely different frouethat which I obtained, the
net of this authorized communication, is not pre- Noble Marquis must have stated distinctly that all
sent to give his interpretatien ; but having received that ' ulterior arrangements were to be matter of future
authorized communication first personally and ver- free and unshackled discussion. But, my Lords,, I
belly to myself, and afterwards when it was corn. am deviating from the course I would lay down, and
witted to writing, and having understood it accord- lam chewing, in my own person, the unfitness of
ing to the natural and obvious import of the words, arguing a question before the necessary information
it was impossible for me tceact then, or to act new, is supplied. The truth is, that I put one construe-
regarding that proposition, in any other way than tion upon the paper, and my Noble Friends put an.
that which was dictated by the plain construction of other, and surely I have a right to contend that. it ,
the language employed. I must here beg leave to has been misapprehended, and looking at the service :
read from the written document a single. paragraph, of the country as the object in view, it will not be 1
the subetaace of which was first personally made denied that it is a laudable attempt to remove the ;
known to me. , misconstruction. It might, perhaps, be expected by
' That his Royal Highness the Prince Regent has some Noble birds on the other side that I should i
signified his pleasure that Lord Wellesley should disclose something regarding the present state of the I
conduct the formation of a Government in all its negociatiou ; but though I would discountenance ;
branches, amid should be First Commissioner of the any such communication at present, vet if it be re-
Treasury, and that Lord Moira, Lord Erskine, aid quired I shall not shrink from ruakiug,. it, but it will j
Mr. Cannieg should be Members of the Cabinet. I not be forgotteti that it was only yesterday morn-
' That it was probable that a Cabinet funned on ! lug that I was able to ascertain what course of pro-
an enlarged basis, must be composed of twelve or' seeding ought to he adopted. Although our efforts
thirteen Members ; that the Prince Regent wished have hitherto failed, yet—Uookinee towards Lords
Lords Grey and (lrenville, on the part of their Grey and Grenville] even at this moment my
friends, to recommend for his Roe al Highness's ap- 1 hopes of conciliation and union are not extinct in a
probation the names of four persons, if the Cabinet i yearter where I am anxious that my offers shall be.
should coresiet of twelve, and of five persons, if it ' accepted, and which his candidly manifested a dispo-,
should coesist of thirteen Members, to he appointed sition to promote the general' object. It has been
by his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, to till admitted on all hands, that a crisis of greater danger
such situations as might hei eerier he arranged: and difficulty never was known; a moment when the
4 That his Royal Highness the Prince Regent left country claimed, more anxiously the service of every

man who is capable of rendering assistance, was ne-
ver recorded lif our annals ; and I hope, that neither
these nor any other discussions may communicate to
public men, ai 1 am sure they will not to me, any '
sharpness of spirit which may delay, or perhaps even
defeat, an object on all accounts so. essential to the
welfare and perhaps the existence of the British Em-
pire. Under these impressions I wish at present to
go no further, and shall sit down, repeating my
`firm conviction of the spirit of conciliation with
which the original proposal was made to my Noble
I Friends."
Lord ERSKINE—" The House will, I hope, ex-
! ruse me, if, after what has fallen from the Noble
Earl, I feel it necessary to say a few words noon
this subject. It appears to me that the real question
to be decided is, whether my Noble Friends are jus.
'tilled in putting the construction they hold upon the
written proposition made to them, apd this construc-
tion was to be ascertained by a candid and fair
pe-
rusal of the paper. I confess for one, never having
seen the document, or indeed heard of it, until it
was read to me in company with others, I put the
same construction upon it as that which is entertained
!by my two Noble Friends. That the proposal was
made in the most liberal spirit, and from the most
honourable motives, cannot he denied; and had the
object been attained, the deliverance of• the country
from its present calamities could not.have been placed
.in better hands. It was, however, most material,
that those who, at the present crisis, when all me
imperiously called upon to exert their utmost talents
for the welfare of the State, refused to accede to the
• proposition,. should point out distinctly, and beyond
the possibility of doubt, the solid grounds on which
they rested. It is at alt times desirable that public
men should stand clear in the opinion of the nation,
and as the interpretation I put upon the document
I was precisely that which my Noble Friends enter-
tained, I thought it right thus shortly to express my
concurrence in the sentiments they have expressed."
The Marquis of DOUGLAS—" I obtrude. my-
self unwillingly upon the House for the purpose of im-
pressing upon Noble Lords the imperious necessity
for prompt and vigorous measures. At a period ar-
knowledged to be without parallel, we have now
been for some weeks confessedly without a Govern-
ment. I cannot by any means concur in the inter-
; pretation put upon the paper by the Noble Earl
(Moira), but I coincide entirely with my Noble
Friends near me, that it would have placed them in
a situation where they could not conscientiously act, '
and which, if they had consented to have held, '
would have been equally unconstitutional and impo-
' litic. The opittion to which. I have come has been
I clearly expounded by my Noble Friends, and until
further investigatic.n at the proper time convince me.
to the contrary, t shall continue to hold it. In the
pr.:sera condition of affairs something oeght to be
done, not only for the country, but for public men,
and it is Oue to the Noble Marquis that a speedy ex-
planation should be afforded. I will not myself sup
gest any particular day for the djscussion of this
very interesting subject, but I would recommend that
some Noble Lard, acquainted with the engagenients
of the Noble Marquis, should name a period that he
imagines will be convenient. I will not detain the
! House longer than to make a single remark upon the
probability that the Noble Marquis was actuated
I only by a wish to conciliate in the offer he was
structed to make, and which was refused, according
to my views, for the most solid and indispnsible
reasons. I confess, that it never appeared t" me
I likely that the Noble Marquis, whose political opi-
talons on nearly all subjects were so opposite to
those of my Noble Friends, should be able to effect
that union of parties and sentiments, which, at the
same time that it is so desirable, it is so difficult to
procure."
The Duke of ATHOL.—" I had not, my Lords,
' the honour to be present in the House when the ex-
I pression, an explanation of which has this bight
been given, was employed ; but when it reached my
ears I immediately conceived that it had been hastily
uttered, and that It was impossible in times like'
these that personal animosities could agitate a British
' breast. At present, I think further discussion
would only be productive of injury, and had I been',
in my place on a former uright, I would have depre-
cated then, as I do now, the discussion into which
we have been led. Ido not trouble the House often
with making speeches, but I trust that I shall not on
that account he the less forward to devote my life and
fortune to the service of my country. I own that I
heard with sorrow what fell from a Noble Earl
(Moira), which, in my .humble opinion, was calcu-
lated only, by promoting debate, to foster the evil
he was anxious to destroy. For my own part, when.
ever the Prince Regent, exerci'iug the duties of Ma-
jesty, shall have formed an Administration compe.
I.teut to the .discharge of their. 1--shatt
never be a caviller for particular men or particular
I measores, being willing to support both the one and
the other, when the object is the prosperity and wel-
; fare of the State. I shall neither join. the party ou
the one side or the other, but shall support those 4
! men whose wish is to save their country. lam teas
dy to admit that there are men on the other side of
the House, able from their talents, and willing from
their disposition, to join in so landahlean under-
taking, and I. trust that their assistance will be ob-
rtained to extricate us from the perils,„reql or imagi-
i nary, by which we are encompassed. God forbit it
Ishould not be so. I am 'no party man, 'and for SO,
years I have supported with zeal and • Odelity our
I King, and the best parts of our -Conititution ; in
I these sentiments I have risen frasm my ..oradle, and
in these sentiments, I toast, I shall ,descend into
Imy grave. My principle object in rising was to de.
precate further discussion, more particularly at this
moment, when the public feeling is alive, and which
I can only inform- the nation, that no termination
j had yet been formed. Under such circumstances, I
trust that the negotiations will lie suffered quietly to
! proceed, that an arrangement satisfactory to ell
I may be accomplished. I have no place to seek, no
favour to ask, I speak only as a British subject, on
tke broad feeling of 'love to my King, and safety to
my country."
Lord BOIL! NG DON—"
My Lords, having the ho-
nour to Wait the habits of friendship
,with the No-
ble Marquis who has been -alluded to, I think it right
talthough Lhavi had no communication with him
elisql the 'llabietlt)l'Partfcularly after what has fallen'
Irvin the Noble Duke respecthtg the expressions