The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-06-17 00:00:00

Hos. .
leaden

Heidi%
wire
rus, peaselng ‘
accor
theste Whig teedth
been seceessfol, _
had sot enlightened Mead- lg.
have eelisted the preposition—it wee The nel-re-
demon to which the propeoltios •owied he alfirseess.--
Bat whet followed from this breech' f. the diliiinsse?—:
if the Whig leaders were is fault, the meeting awn
escape from all blame. for it was to be premueed that
the real same of the meeting was not in fame of ellip
edioes proposition, and that it would sot have Men
to tithe Whig leaders bad done their duty. The
egos
d y
&tenet had, however, exculpated the leaders
free Bide( any tappers so the Rieolodos, sad ono
Milk Lord. a limber of thoothei House (lord Darn-
lop) did some forward amid oppose it. The Worth; Be-
itaidet did-not deny that essay of the Whig leaders did
joie that Noble lord la his opposition. and give their
TOW agalost the proposition—(Sir E. Knatchiull said,:
a ewe few of them," across the table). Ho (Mr.
priregban) bad sot the evidesee of his senses, as to
induct of those Noble Lords, as he was not pre-
sent at the meeting; bat be bad 'inherit), which was
next to the evideace of his settees, Namely, the awns-
ramie of those Noble Persons themselves, that they did
Ilitanalost the obnoxious proposition. It appeared.
Shoitehrsohat one of the Whig leaders bed made a
.mineeb against the proposition—the only speech which
beamed. against it—and that the others had shown
lzrobatios of it by Miss against it. Yet the
k 11l *met had most inconsistently blamed the
aildoerag for sot opposing what. -iron his own
41 appeared they had
.opposed. asd.hithad
*fades forhaving bees the dupes of that
1 denptisition. He was really at a lees to conceive what
tile Worthy Baroset or his Honourable Friend sear him
(Mr. La' kraft) would have wished the Whig leaders to
dprietto it was admitted they had dose. Were
• because so man there was capable of mak-
geh Impressive a speech as his Honourable reload
(Mr. Cakraft)? He did net mean to accuse his Homier.
eh,* Friend of setting forth his oratorical powers invkii-
*gel but this was really the whole result of his ergo-
This' was, at all events, the maaniog of the
.. ' with which that part of his Honourable Friend's
to', as 444 a
4w as and be knew sot whet other coo-
t* put upon dm argument of his Lion. Friend.
was one other cirentastaace to which he wished
• Vert- before he at down. He could assure the
Biatettbat it was the fixed and clear opinion of many
Bestlemas who had bad as much experience at public
meetings as the Worthy Baronet (Sir Edward Kaatch-
hull), sad who were more capable of forming a jodg-
Mold than his Honourable Friend (Mr. Caleraft),
Inathincit as they were present at the meeting,
deaths meeting were decidedly in favour of this Reso-
lution, and that all resistance on their part would bare
Imes neavailiog.—These Hentlemen might bate bees
..taken, but it was their clear and deliberate opinion,
.astilipon that opinion they acted in limiting their resist-
'Wee. He (Mr. B.) was inclined to think that if a far-
ther explanation of the nature and consequences of the
Rewinds°, which bad unfortunately been embodied in
the Peditiou, had been given, it might have been reject-
od/bedlie spoke of coarse with much distrust of a met-
ier' of which he had no personal or local knowledge.
He pretested, however, against the doctrine, that this ad-
dition which bad been made to the Petition. ought to
I diminish the weight and aotherity Which belonged to
I•the rest of it. The meeting was emphatically, and
lens any figure of speech. a meeting of the county
eat; it was crowded with men of all parties, tuAtlY
of whom were friends of the Worthy Baronet himself.
No man eoald deny, that with respect to their complaint
of grievances. and the question of Parliamentary Reform,
the Polities spoke the deliberate and redacting HMO 01
AlLX__lliedtddjlenzgejLag, _._ jid iasilp • -li to cos-
_ _ _ __.

• bees em
reedimialsh the weight to which the Petitime wept
eiXtled. He trusted the people of England would Wet
deterred from exercislog the right which they had is
his hawses exercised, and that they world continue to
slow their clear and deliberate sense of tbs, distresses
seder which they. were tottering, and the -nuises,of
those distresses, in Petitions to Parliament wills the
Sessions lasted, and to the Throne during the recess.
The less such represeotstions were attempted tubs stided
—the more folly and freely they were discussed, the bet-
ter for the public creditor himself, am l the more securely
would publio credit be placed on a basis which nothing
cold shake but that overwhelming necessity which was
paramount to all argument, and which, as the Noble
Lord opposite (Londonderry) had justly observed, put
all consent entirely out of the suestion. Such a propo-
sition ought never to be entertained but in circumstances
of the greatest ,extremity; least of all ought it to be
brought forward is the crude, hasty, ill-considered, and
net at all digested form, ha which the last paragraph of
She Petidon embodied a sentiment which would never
have beets adopted by the Meeting. .hail it been tho-
roughly canvassed, and which hi impel never to see in-
pleduced into a Petition again.
Mr. CALCRAFT, in explanation, said, that be bad
sot given himself out as the prime orator of the county
of Rent, as was implied by the observations of the floe.
and Learned Gentleman KW. Broaghani). After all,
tiowever, the orator of the county of Westmorland hail
come mind to precisely the same point as the supplied
•rator of the county of Kept, namely, that if the Resolu-
tion had been properly explained and duly canvassed.
it would have been rejected by theMecting.—(Hear, and
a laugh.)
Sir E. KNATCHOULL and Mr. HONYWOOD ea!
`plained.
Mr. BROUGHAM, in explanation, said. that the No-
ble Lord to whom he had alluded (Lord Usraley) had
net merely expressed his disapprobation of the proposi-
tion; bet that be bad characterised it in terms of consi-
derable. acerbity, if be might judge from the common
reports al .that hisetiag. [We presume the Learned
Member alluded W the Reports in the Newspapes.]
hiargeees of LGONWNUERRY, in exiilanaiion,
dialed hitting said any thing against County Meetings
generally. He merely said that the meeting which had
toriginated the petition now before the House, bad con-
signed to a reformed• Parliament the performing of an,
set of spoliation upon the public creditor. He would
not rail this injustice, or say that it was any thin int
proper, but really he could not' discriminate it from
wrong. He was acre that there were Slot many .county
meetings that would wish to we a House of Commons
that could be capable of proposing such a measure.
'Mr. BROUGHAM differed entirely as to the terms in
which the petition was expressed. Though he regretted
the use of the language which had been employed in the
addition, because, however unjustly, it gave a handle to
the Noble Lord, and the Hon. Gentleman opp isiv, to
accuse county meetings of folly, of which they were nut
guilty. He thought, however, that it ill became those
who had first depreciated the currency, and then the
property of every man in the country, to find fault with
a Mere recommendation to reduce the interest of the
debt—(Cheers from the opposition.)
Lord curroN allowed that it was rather an odd
matter for a man to accuse himself; but he would coatis*
that there had not been on the part of the Whig leaders,
as they were called. that activity and energy which the
case.seensed to demand [hear!]. Fur his own part. he
ham little of County Meetings; he had .ever signed a
re jetties till he had signed the one for that Meeting ;

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, they- weer awise. Notwi ihimerling ilia', Hider;
Avrever, of which he disapproved, he tconbi soy,- th..t
the Petition itself embodied the aentinients-of a majority
-of the respectable inhabitants of ike county. NO f.nlr
ottkht, therefore., to be foiled with the Meeting or the
Petition, in consequineeof any thi n gexpressed In a Rider;
liy which they were taken be surprise.
Mr. PEP.I. preferred the leanly and open cotfeasion of
the Noble Lord (Clifton,) and thought it mete calculated
to set them (the Whip, we understood) right whit Me
people 'of Engle)* then the darker insinuations whir!'
were Ibtestn out by others. If, however. the addition
mentioned 1/1111.110i agreea.le to the sentiments of ' the
, Noble Lord. iir'af hls friends—if it spoke net the 'tenni.
•mentsof the &Suety, why weak not 'gleefully resisted
The charge agaiest•the county, oral least against the
Meeting. erne; did they lad. propired .114.MellYiKe which
nnjest, sod, asmn.HemAicrit. lied styled itovvoletiontary:
The charge itaiiist the Whig l orJ. and' Looders again
was, that they did sot meet boldly and manfully the 0' -
jeetionable addition.. They should have opposed Mr.
Cobbett by reasoning, and.instructeil the moo of Kent
as to the course whisk they ought when adopted. One
individual had Complained that he was squeezed tip in a
waggon; but he could not see how this applied to the
whole of those who ought to have guarded the Meeting
from improper matter. Her ed themanly propositiod
of those who at once recinsmendetl the redaction of the in.
en the public debt, to those darker insinuations • .
which magnified, or tried to magnify, danger by.coa-
coaling
Mr. BENNETlhonght it most unfair in the Noble .
Lord, and the Hon. Gentleman opposite to allege, thst
any county meeting bad proposed or recowmpeoded tbd ..-.•
pillaging of the radio creditor. The Governess% bad by • •
tbeirown misconduct, misconductfor whislo theybad got • . _
the sanction of majorities of Parliament, set the esesopig
of spoliation. It Wit they who had defrauded both the ••• • •-.
public debtor and the public creditor, and surely the); •• • -
ought to bribe last to complain of a burst of feeling iris. - • •
played at a public meeting, especially when they knew -
that tribe the conseqeence of the most severe ilistress..ei
They ought not to be so forward in finging fault with the •
feelings of people, who had met to petition Parliamert
under circumstances, such as Englishmen never as-
sembled under before.
Mr. WESTERN could not but admire the consent*
mate assurance of the Gentlemen opposite, it' denounc.
ing the County of Kent for doing that which those very
tleatlemen had been doing fur the last two•and.rwen.f
years. It was hard indeed that the Cage of the pub;,e
creditor should /monopolise oil the consideration of the
State, and the debtor remain neglected. He denied thlt
it teas by any surprise, or by delusion, that the claus •
alluded to was introduced into this petition. They mike !
Parliament to agree to this measure, 'because they
thought that moment-of overt:he/ming necessity, when
such a measure mast take puce, Aad arrived. He hr
lieved, too, that it was not their opinion alone, bet the
opinion of so many of the people of the country, rad
was gaining ground so fast as to endanger its peace and
tranquillity. The lion. (lent. went en ito say. that he
bad no hesitation in •sayiog. that. as times went, the
public creditor bad aot a right to all that. which be was •
now receiving.
Mr. HUME maid that the clause cellekon
to do no more than was effected by tho Kiadit Himour-
able Gentleman whets he reduced the interest,' of the •
Five per Cents. The Honourable Headman otter-
m the other parts of the Petition, in which NO".
the public espenditere were recommended. '
Sir F. BUliDETTwished to meg-

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ow to the

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•
••

geweraliyaleilioUtinfttie
▪ Whig leaders dissented from the ptinciptei .r. Mr. Cub-
b▪ ett's proposition; but even taking that to be the case,
"fires rather hard to blame an lion. Member for hse-
big been overborne by a torrent of unexpected public
fie Neg. The truth wee, that the proposition bsd come
in very suddenly; and the man must accustomed to the
'temper of such meetings might have been usable to in-
terfere in time to prevent it from being carried. He ob-
jected to see his Hoe. 'friend (Mr. HOnyworid) exposed to
such a pitiless storm.from both sides of the House, and •
,be thought that the Noble Lord on his right (Lord Clif-
ton) hid expected too much from the Whig leaders at rhi:
meeting. ,What wasineant by Whigs and Tories--slow,
he scarcely naderstood: they were generally, indeed, yo
like. that when they changed to -
took ohe for the other ,
bon. colleague of
as it were in triumph
he who, al the Tory:
especially to be 'hostile
should, of all men, have
but forward in cornball
heasiond Is,
Cilebbett was-filled,
differtnce of Opiaiowk
thing like an abiolpte
nonrable gentlemal migb
resist it; bat there wereres%
sent auggettion in .very d
many men film believed that
sot to have his full interest.
soy that the pdblid credi
pound ; btOt it was, the
in the colatry, that '
the hen. gentletuiti
like to get Ws. is dye peebd. a.. t opinion •
toundeiL.-what man ;mild be expected:ft sobmit,. in ib,
--J'aindition of the country, to be - of .Is'

4 get
,andft'4...wha
presra eltnikinditk , gippedlsis
proper to farttiverviee of such • "yams ? And be (Sir
erdett) did conscientiously believe, that not •
oilyehe sitficoltural interest, but the whole productive .
labour pid evise! of the comery Wan attire present mit-
miens-praying the public creditor 3Up.. la, the pound.
Aftegoll, then what was there so tekyobjeeibioable in • , • •
She satiate which had been pier/WA?. lb di& mit • tn• •
gtee.that it liatLbeen proposed; be wattle femur regret- ' •
tag it ; the proposition broight She subject matter Mtn •
discussion before the house ; ant such disitesion was • ,
solutely necessary, to the safety of the conetry.
Let the Right Honourable Secretary make that clear
rto the country' whilla was so very clear to Ideate-If •
—that the proposition on which the boost was de. "
I bating was a tbsbooost proposition. Letgentlemen on the 4
other ship make clear that f'sict,'and not apply abuse In . ' • -
answer to every suggestion upon political ecoaosny.
—,Cheers.)—The Hon. Secretary said, however, that • •
be liked the plain dealing of Mr. Cobbett better titan the
mystery (is be termed it) of the Hon. Member for
thelsea. Now, be was 4lad that that plain dead., was
gratifying to the Hon. Secretary, because the Hen. Sr.
oretary was in a fair why to bare a great deal of it.—
(Cheers and laughter.)—Then,• let not the Noble L rd
apposite seek to engage the bower in a warfare with the
public. The Noble Lord would fled the country disposed .
to make eery in a :onabloor necessary sacrifice. althavgli
nut inclined to be the dupe of sophistry, which altrost
every idiot ronid see throogh,(hear,)—or of mink
plans of retrenchment, which ended in the imposition
of additional burdens upon the people.—(Oraat cheer.
iog.)—The Hon. Baronet sat.4own by expressing his
satisfaction that the petition .M nit to be rejected; be
rhopghtibere ass nit pr./tepee for branding dishonesty
'open any ladividual concerned in it.

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ITEOLti
semis (Sir K • I) asked by the 'Mgt herlifir widailli-St se. ' •
re bad •macaw *mod tti, open the gee of the which the lieselotiessb Sierra sp. Threlatier:
lig. bet melee the propeeitioas whisk strangers able Sarovid (Sir 111, U) had,rentarlied how;
peeseing epos thew- we, then, it Mewed of fee, tad bold s mildest the Rider whicb
ri according to this view et the nit, that if been pro irr odor o to the poitioo. Now be,
nag leaders bad cumi forward; they would have woad sav theta besieger little weight he might be sun-
set:446phi'. and it was their own funk that; they OmM to have, he would lace unclean the opposition t.
sot enlightened the Melting. Till Wed it in his power, bad it not been that it time npah them

r chanarA sides in the housed', mi.-
ter ; but he thought it bard that the
r friend (Mr. Honywood) should sit
on the other side of the house—
y member fur the moiety, s •
tile to the principle of Abo •
bare stood, not tacit de: 4., t, •
bating its adoptioset • -
latighter.)—Thes•• - .
on the other si - -••• ' •
'might exist as to • .
its fraud had Items rdhotaldmitled
I might, pet-baptise* been bin% •
were Many whowsektview the
rry different • Tbere were ".• :
eyed that the• • _.41, :tor comet'
interest. The " t did- n*
treater shottlas .20s. to biji
the opteop mot *We ones
in cote of the mental* of
opposite, the public creditor was • .
he petted. If that opinion was well