The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-07-02 00:00:00

THE WATVAIAV.

"resist teethes nil bet. bot Werepred Jour istration-1
to the mono ran rupees • And dlefefirlie the Comte of Janice.-
(near. Ireer!r-lowelAkke MM. 'bat she Ring seas Maar sop.'
piped to be present le your Coons. and that by Neva gaga '
ke dee:lard' Miff ingebinses, stall restibmis, matt tliPreastrto
,Ileas reelool.: Now, indeed, the cosesery moss beatni-
k say-" Navels,. defector, oroodiror " it es
ge- e-That the gnat darter Is am WM • 101.. t d by the sale of
judgment.. Ms en almost equal et II has epr-an up-1 mesa the
sere impoesikility of obeolaing Ince Jorignoren. without •
▪ eiglity poi.ese. 'traces are so prat mot sass men week
With* brook ..• lope. ire lbws lose twice she amoral of It by
meting for entertain rrilrees.-(Mawr, bear!) -So.\ is sew dr
Mk of she Carves of romonn taw min* owe. tegethet with
doer laikeior ribose'. lb I have oafortomelch gnat Into /stay,'
old sham flaorilons are soca erroverted Imo the rssamary jorici
Medan of
_a doggie Magiesrate. farmed se admientyle • symem (Sr
dee adedahis sad d methods, d pink, throoginsot the,
land. Fenn oar Common awn Caort• the smelter of Comm..
Law. these growl priariplei of joiner, are Mount Inver sell
by sperlfhe dens of Parliament. Bed Ow grime. Me massy
grievsece, Is the dreadful lay nod earlier a ear (Warts of '
Tbe proem "pleas is the lean of Chanter, Is the:
wore at mite hymen r.frilag Ikon soy 'rem 'kW was ever
enahlched in • civilised twantry. ilk is la a grin 11111••• ire
atitibstahle a the eroodakese sad unfired monner is oboe*,
the leg Water* bas at various peri..d• hisperei man se that
ankh miglle. skew all other 'knee. to he exempt tram them.
it stool/ be better to gag tweed the. les as peseeedinge i• •
Girt of Janice. Fee whet premise are all ear taxes paid t
l'or the maitomaire a she Losebutime-of dint Coweekaike
which deckers .bat Jamie* dc.II he Armpit elm• it shall be
partly neerrible se Me rich aid to she pose. Net by 1•P pre-
mot germ' el meatiest. the'reor gra Is self prerloded from
oh akin, we tiro ark mg Os obtal•jostime. A writhe( isomer, I
Of the inagoilade of lils evil has. I andeestaad. horn lately •11-
Ibtailed in • full as. peaks la she lisore of limaerry.—
A erfealsitt had eerweirmlr psi la an sower 1 • she phttonfre
bill, het it was 11/55 artesian is obtaia an are espy aerosols
screams. 'lir degrease applied no she Chart for • copy.-
What doe. the Moor Mud" or she eon reds red ler such • copy
-a sore perhopsl- . NOM. 1-0.1111
waves 10.0Lel. Roe lb keep the Home Inapt
saspeire, she sea eireilAmfoe Mks copy al account,
Wei w.010g.-0.0111. fir eller eepierabsee I The Lord Chad.
trfeetermioly Inlegered. eat the lhha am dew far 91101: I
(Vett, however, so waft hp way man this digeosiog power I
let the charge be be. moderate, es/zed, and kt no men
have the poser of rain* Pe redeelog Is. la hedger in gbh
laNallet she Clmsrell•• had overstepped his power I do nem
Mop *ow tee enquire Wm If be hail hero disineihrd so have
exercised is what smolt have bees tbe resell to !kebab... f Teem
•Illionoteli rip a, el have is • great it pee arise* from your
footmeo• stamp doles, they have at k.gsh grows op late an
obstrucilou of she carom of Jamie,. Is the present awe .f the
nienkeisinillows of the law, the wise and "shwary priociples of
the Comma Lew new ahsetiorly keeled to all except Inge
wine could game the Gown with • seesbly pewee. I mpewies.
as aware. lime he ea made nee mesa f the pa:titular evils
alfrodiag the ado aistration bet they have georr-ity
admit is p delsiL g the ec Is eas Mau removing Mem. besides
hearing kr the Pohl* Ms Immensr adeli..s.ral
lino meet may say ohm ibis is a its_bjert MI slink re lore srl
61 castallril without a pnei Parliarearary Reform. et
▪ bliart•lln I shoal/ feel mey title emalideire la
ll before kW Meese es it se at peewee eemetesed. Vi 2
Hoer being_ properly sigiloat in she discharge of Itsktreipt
she ,award"Propk, Ile•te odd have eons mid tsar
▪ of lairs, i.e immestmee teneleary if white is she A-
elfaCtiots Of polite. All de r nee evil. which nothion ten ro"
awls but • seal Repreersini ie.. ache People-a Reprersatier
agile lurid take care that saves were properly impure& mad
that their pm/w e ems proper's applied- At strews. it it *My ,
when ttn abort becomes moo se moose hat any corer)s set
M Not morello( •l. Aad whet bas her• she reels of the ma-
jority of Pail amenisey eagoiries in • ober P 'Link elr, at I
she best. has polkas wee g sad is. frequently remotes nark
\eve aggrieved she evil, as tided far the m. it part by • grew •
adiii,lelsel piecemeal Pee troalry. fit, I will too my
relme. wallas' Ow Ibls smiting, hyaena, progrring the folio sr
Mesoluden t-
" That early In the melt Smoke el Parise-sew the, Moose
will tabulate its mow Wises •,,Net,efistlO• the State of the He-
preseatatims of the People."
Mr. G LAMB felt considerable satisfectioe at
finding, that the terms of the motion would compre-
hend all thole who entertained views friendly to
Reform, whatever dillfereocts on some piste might
prevail amongst them. lie did not rise to follow the
800. Barrett through the whole course of his ergo-'
scent, because he did not think his moil eloquent
err hepp) pemeges were connected with the points
c( (lifetime* to ehich he bail alluded. A. he dis.
Meted, heavier, from those doctrines whirl, had
beet. supported at other times by the Honourable Dv-
noes, he felt shed it behoved him to be more specific
is drawings lino beta's'', himself and those doc-
trine.. Whatever might have bete the morels of
Reform, of which they bad heard so much-and he
ma- itrongly inclined to think, that since she
herons" end his ceedjutors bad placed themselves
at its head, that march bad been Milo more {Sao
what was is military language called mathing time,
an set chick reesisiod in asking much dose and
to progress, we rather its • retrograde motion--
(e largh)-his perossolon will was, skit the &it
*Pp of the p,..gress most be, to pet doyen coned led
bribery sad Cos tepli4llll.-111tar, hew! J--The
Marone' hid ass night rejoiced at the tate develop.
wants of corruption in oilkreet borettelts; at
She beginning of the Mission, he had understood that
Mich circuits*t mere below the notice o a Radi-
i:al Reformer- The H. use estriaially had not bed
the Hon. Otsrones'e estisctoce is prostrating lies.
ilatecigsliume ; but whilst the, d siderated hie pre.
Semis It ass 410Poldible 10 dos .t diet he bad spent his
days, soil " COtliallOd 'be insitoight nil." is. metering
his views, and that the huit of his labours was the
asenlattots beton, the House. Wish respect to hit
Wen opinioae spin .he subject of 11-I rat, be shoold
wish so sea, its the fir., place, tie eleviee frosithise
Temoved from hortioghs • hose corruptions had been
reputed, sari frtin ethers 'rif limited extent, to l•rae
end populous towns. lie regarded the abuse of that
ffanclsko In the same light in *hick he should view the
abuse Al soy vs Ire efootis,tos is-sal fenction. The House
moulder,* d., i 4 duty, if left power in the hands . f
those •hesedelingoency had beets proved. That far
mould he p its the improvement of the Borough it--
presestatioe : but the shorteniog of the oloretien of
Parliament appeeted to him to he a measure thee
would have w salutary effect is identifying tle feel-
Jags of the Coariteent end the Representative; it
would tree to raise the House in the public estima-
tion., sasl to pet es end to that ailments which had
been so ohne observed its their conduct at the begin.
Ding sad as she doss of a Pat Hainaut. The frequent
mummer of Elections, which was mach dreaded by
essay persons in that linos., he thought wield be
highly beneficial. He considered the noise mod to.
melt of a popular Election so excellent ordeal for a
Candidate in go throegh.-( .4 Icragh from She Mlfsi-
sterrs/ side) lie knew the meaning of the leash from
the Getitlemen opposite, het still be meet declare his
preference of Tiienuial Parliaments sod esed-bespoi.
tared Ciedidates, sea Right Hon.Geot.(Mt.Connitig)
bed on a former occasion described him. The Right
lion Geist., perhaps, might not be ignorant of such a
thing existing; sod if it were recruit,' hequeotly, it
would not tie improper that a Member should here
such a memento of the restentmeot of his constiteentg.
Ii" dud not consider Helots to be that grand panacea
%Welt the Hon. Beeeoet seemed to thick it. He hose
the People bad bees leoght to believe that Reform
totoptised all that was worth pining; that it **told
make provisions cheep, and reduce the espence of
len proceedings ; is, short, that It would enable es,
as leafiest laid, 4., to wear woollen clothes, cod

davit no water."—(A lereck )—lle celtsinly di•'
not anticipate such comegatmce‘ from Parliamentary
Reform ; bat at the Minn time be believed It would
bare the good elect of giving the People whet in
Air opinion (and he was sorry to sly it) floi
did not at present possess—reliaacti nn their toilets.
lie had addressed the floes, in Ibis wally stage of
the debate, because there was much in the 110.
utterable Baronet's spireth that he approved of,
soli because he thooght the best way of attaining
the object In view was to unite the friend. of Reform.
lie knew he had ',merited to himself a tilllicult talk,
which, 'hitless, be hoped be bad esacstod in as
intelligible ensouer—namely, to draw between him.
self sod Radical Reformers a wider distinction than
'misted between any other two clews of politicians.
Wbilever 'reception the present preposition might
soot with, he mast Cllll4 ter that Rosso Me trite Rt.-
presentative of the People, and the (bird branch, of
tire Legisietere; and be shield be sorry If, isa the
harry and host of debat►, he bail uttered any r►mark
derogatory from tho respect which he shield ever
eatertain for that Rneve.

Mr GRENFPLLseid. he was Ant of thew, end
he believed they constituted • great majority, who'
atm in the medial elect. of the present itoprese
Sallee Syr-m, espc't reel, practical, and oritslanlial
coed. H. most also he permitted to tat, that he
worsted faith in the political wisdom, aid perhaps iw
the snood discretion, df the stlvectitee for Palls.
meetary ROOM. If their object mem este within
their grasp, so gnat wu•ld he their seal to effect it,
that they woold he reckless of cortmgeences; aid
the only gent' likely to result would be, That .they
had be►n showed to try as •ap-siinent of what they
erroneously believed—namely, that they were able
to giro es something better than the present slated.
Let it not, however, be 'Spew' to him, 111141 this
mos so (hop's. system for which homes an aka
cafe, and t►at he did sot believe it I. partake of
those imperfections to which ell other sostltelleol
were liable, and in which real thing earthly Most
participate. He had long thought that the ialleence
at she Crown in 'het West, particularly as far as
Parliamentary Reform was eakeened, was too great,
sad that greet good woad rush frogs its being di.
Washed. le certain It-soleticns submitted to that
Wove in the year 1790, by the lice Lord Ashber.
too, it was stated, teat " the intluence of the Cows
hsd ineressed. »as increasing, and ought to be dimi.
..heal"—Tbe lion. Member then proceeded brevity
to contrast the present situation of be country with
ha situation in 1790. The National Debt had
'tweeted nearly ive•fold; the revenue, that was to
say, the tesstroo, bad increased in a still greater
proportion than the debt, because it was re.
coked to meet the Ingress, of the Civil, end
lite wag still more sorry to say, of the Military
Eslahlithnients of the counts,; bet the meet seri.
ors eu•isider•tlun was, that the machinery resorted
to in order to collect that reveitee, the Crow" pa-
tronage, had increased in the same proportion. That
patronage had planted itself in parts of the country
where it bad sever before been known, and had
spread itself like a torrent over sit the kingdom.—lf
he, who, in 1790, thought ihr indolence of the Croats I
too great, were to contemplate its present magnitude,
mast he net think that it now bore down the country
with a weight ten.fold increased ? Another circem-
stance connected with Partimmetvary Reform had
shack his mind many years back, and had made him
cling withadditiondpsg.raessto the present sy eosin
he meant the fetal wait of caveat' and essenimity
among the Reformers themselves. He confessed that,
incept among one class of the Redo et Reformers, he
bad never met wish three persons, even Of those who
visually acted with himself, that understood each
ocher's glees on the 'object. The only, point
on a hid they 'greed, was the propriety of appoint.
inig a Cointoirsee: when he hod entreated his friends
•to state how Reform was to be obtained, sod what
'ahem were toes corrected, they had slog.' said,
Go into a Committee, end then you will find whet
abusers Wet, and how they erg to be refrireted."-
11Bet he for one walla n• VOr consent is' gelato a Cam.
mittre, until 'hit~ had at agreed on tinier points.—
' II• should ther►fore conclude by declares( his hearty
dissent from the motion of the Hots. Baronet, and
that dissent he could not mark hater than by movistg
as an amendment," That t►e other Orders of Melly
be now read."

Tug diiiginal poetise and ifs* amendment were
then pot from thri choir.
' Mr. it. 11. GUHYItY spoke at length against the
practice of visieuriiiig .h. Elective Franchise of corropt
!swanks to oho ovijaernt hundreds; and represented
this system as productive of olio worst consequences.
!fore Ili* &bele was inter, op' (41 by • Message from
the Lards,aegeaiutisgtheHoe.thee their Lordships
hid agreed to several Hills, far which sea oar report
'of illy proceedings in the Muse of Lards.

Sir itoueqf WILSON thought the only objec.
'ion that could be made to the amino of his lion.
Vriend, the Wnrihy Baronet. was, that it had been
breath, forward ate time when many Members were
absent, from a perieesion that no be,iness of import.
IWO would canoe on at so late. period of the Session.
The moderate-Reformers, es they bad been celled,
bet whom he silioeld call the Economists, were desi-
rous of arriving at their object by • circuitous, and
what they conindered • more crrtain road than that
estibh the real Reformer, pursued. They had, how.
seer, from recent experience, the Owens of judging
how for their plane of economy were likely In he
successful; they had been repelled in their attecks
on every deparimeht of Goveressent Into which
they bad attempted to intrridece retrenchment.—
Of the Members which composed that Rouse, nearly
300 were nominated by Peers. and 18t by Con.
wooers. leaving only the mall balance of 171 Mem-
bers returned by the mirages of the Paolo. The
lion. Member himself (Mr. Grenfell), win opposed
the motion, bed, i.s complaining of the lumens of
our present taxation, stated • reason which shooed
thou necessity of a remedy ; and that a was con.
firmed by the distress which prevailed et Carlisle,
and in other parts of the country. to reference
to the elass of Anti.ltigorniers, who said they would
not connivance Reform till a specific plan was pro-
posed, the Gallant General • remarked, that such
plans had been submitted to the House on several on.
CalliOAS by different fifilasbers. Ile had himself proposed
..n a former occasion • specific plan of Parliamentary
Reform, which seemed now to he rare generally sp.
proud of than it had Wu at the time he brevet it

forward But lrhateeer Crendstion might b- fail for
Reform. and however potently the *mod classes
of Anti. Reformers might approve of the MR. ptiosci-
plug it wet% impesilble to erect any directore that
ohnold satisfy an men, discordant wile,. One world
say the building was toe Gothic, another that It was
too Grecian, a third would think it too ancient,
end a (north lined pronounce it too modern.—
It would be like the rem of the onfortanate eel-
trier. who, while andisigoing the operation of
logging, called out to the drummer, 66 You
girdle foe high ; now you strike too low ; 016,
do'nt atilt, in the middle."—(A laugh )—The
Hen. Baronet had not presented any plan, end in so
dating 10. bad COhforlaPsi to the constant usage of the
Hesse In similar eases, and ed • greater _oppose
thee he could in the first instance base' obtained for
any speriir plan. If a Committee Vivre appelatt.d,
it would of room have mines plans submitted to il,
sore for Triennial Parliament, and Household Suf-
fuse, tome for Mr. Pitt', plan, and some for the
Doke of Richmond's, and the Committee world
adopt the roost beneficial. Ile, for one, was for
Trlennial Parliaments and Household Self/age; but
if the Committee were only to restore Triennial Par-
filltrents, their labour. would not be dor .on assay.
Thal would form a step in the progress of Reform, and
facilitate Oa advance tea fall Representation of the
People. which rottefifvfod the only limits of Reform,
soles, the t..trettelblift of the hymen mind was alto-
gether without foundation. He appealed le the II"•64,
.Maher they aloe, would ',card with ind.desence Usei
sufferings and the wishes of the P•nolt. Let them n. t
have it seed of them, Medlar dons , pones psi sun
hosnines in ndrerits non carman, entre. Ile 'flail.' that
the House would tort persist in maintaining a pulps=
bey ref it sod a pernirines system of Representation,
bat world me the wisdom of acting upon the great
Mr. Locke's recommendation, with which he should
conclude his oblervations:—" If," says Mr. Lacks,
6- the Eitecurive, who booth. power of coagulant the
Legislative, observing rather the tree proportion than
lesbian of representation, regulates, net by old cams
lam bot.by true reason, the member of Membets is.
ell places that have a right to be ilkoioctly enumerat-
ed, which no part of the People, however imorpos
retest, can {mimed to, but to proportion to the assists
once which it •Ifords to the Public; It earnest be
judged to have set op a stew Legislative, but to have
restored the old and tree one, and to have rectified the
disorders, shish toccrosion of time had iesensioly, as
well as inevitably, Introduced. Fear It being 'be in.
tern) as well as intention of the People to base a
fair and equal Representative, wh brings It
tamest to thy, is an undoubted friend to, and ewes
blither of the Government, anti counts( miss the coos
sent and approbation of the comasonity."—llleer,
hear !)
Mr. WILMOT conceived thauhe lion. Batt. lad
other la. lives in introdeclog the motion than had
bee. stated, at least it appeared to him that it was
ceertaistent with Meetioge that were held, which he I
considered of a seditious toodeory. It was upon
Decisions sorb as dots that the Pimple Were tooght to
believe that their distress arose hone a tyrannical Ad-
ministration. an t floes what the Hon. Bartreet bed
been pleased to sty le ,he pt insjetilies of that
Noose. Ile would ask she Was. ethos they elm- I
sideted the someroos *objects with which the Hon.l
Ball. had sledded his speech, whether it was possi- !
hie that Triennial Parliaments and Household Soft- '
rage would remote those grievances, and perncolatly
'the delays is. Cootie of Justice. If the Reform coo-
limpid/4 could be carried Into effect, it' would Iwo
Revolution, anti although some persons might lid it
convenient, he thought much greater inconveniences
would by *theca be sustained. Ile should agree with
that species of Retinae that declared every hermits to
be disfranchised when bribery should he pr..sad so
have been practised. But the Ilanourshle Bart. had
said, that the represented and the Representative ens
dogwood each ether well, to that even in this case
their good understanding could not be improved.—
The Hon. Hitt. bad retested to those parts of our
history, with the slew of showing, this the condition
of the lower classes was better than at the present,
let times when the poor were treated title better than
beasts, and transferred from one master to antolker.
Could the Hon Member bring one instance to prove,
that at any period a greater portion of liberty bad
been enjoyed than et the present ? Does be remem-
ber the lanyosge used towards the populace in the
reign of Richard li. after the death of Wat
Tyler—
Vst'feai fouler, 'Went manebitis, non at tendenrs,
red Man natures P At that time they were viewed
by the Heise of Commons with the utmost indigoes
'lots and contempt. He felt justified in declaring,
that the lion. Bert. bail nut made out hi, case, that
less portion of liberty leap now enjoyed by the Pro-
-pie than forinetly. Most Honourable Members no
doubt recollected the Societies formed in 1791 mod
1795 ; the plans there laid down were much snore
rational. Bolingbroke, Is his Dissertation on Pee-
-1 ties, when alluding to the remedy fur the imperfect
'state of the Repretentation, recommended raising the
qualifications, as wee theme in the time of Henry VI.
sad thus Omer the Einar, F.snebise so the hands of
'tetanus who, by their education soolindependence,
would rioters such Representatives as might merit ,
their confidence. He understood, that if the motion
of the lion. Bart. should be agreed to, that all the
promised advantage* would be obtained ; hot as he
did ant believe such wosid be Ike effects he could not
coolant to subscribe to the declaration. A great part
of thediScolties be hoped would be removed early la 1
the nett Semler, by a reformation of the Poor Laws; !
he thought leo, merhinad might be effected by an ens
couragemeet to emigratios, sot by sending out armed •
Men to South America, hat by establishing colonies,
which would at the same tittle improve me commerce
of the coostry. In any rational metbod to relieve
the sufferings of the poor, gene reeved be more needy
to co-npatate then himself. If be could tee any roes
sortable plan to accomplish Parkomentsty Reforma•
tins, he should wish se give it attention : bet doting
the last mettle years be kw] bat tact with any 'lost
could be adopted by a reesonabi• mass. Dr. J 0411900
bad said, " Thee the head that could not raise a
hovel might destroy a police." For the regime no
bed assigned he shoot(' protest easiest Woe primal
motion, and conclude in the burgess' of Me. res.
"That they bad higher duties to perform dean tbe
mere wishes of their Constitomoi, they bad ors geoid
the taw., and net to invade them, a,ial to consider
I that tb4 fleas of the People were baited as well as