The Statesman.
London, England, 1814-11-29 00:00:00

THE S's'ATESMAN•

Al'ies to conquer the country only to enslave if • and
Trticlntatt, }rho first gave to his countritmeg the ta.
en ;le of resistance to France, was stow kef wane.
niekt, a victim to his patriotism. It wait a miserable
subterfuge to say, that it nes impossible the spolia-
tion could have been committed, becauie the Con-
gress had not met. Suppose the Congress were ne-
m to meet, has not Crania the occupation of the
country ? If these documents 'were forgeries Minis-
ters may hate some defence. But the Moalteur, the
French official journal, announced the fact of the
Ilion of Saxon' by Prussia in the way repre.

nishments ; also those who were discharged by pro-
clamation, and the number executed out of the pen
sem capitally convicted.
Mr. H. ADDINGTON asked what was the object
of the elation ?
Mr. P. GRANT said, it would throw light on the
criminal administration of the country' and on the
subject so often moved by his lion. and Learned
Friend (Sir S. Romilly).
The motion was agreed to ; and also a similar one
as to Irelar.d.
Mr. MARSH moved for an account of all imports

py 'Y - , . -
Minister, who argued in favour of its subjugation. I occupa,
Nothing official or authentic had been inserted in the {sensed in the documents. f
the
Brunswick,
Congress I Great Britain and Ireland, foam 1800 to 1814 ; and ference to the disembodying, bat metal
thing had been publicly done; bat the people were; not having yet met ; bet if these documents were ' also of all exports from Great Britain and Ireland to ing out of the militia, he would ask
amused by divputes between the Minister of the: true, it must be inferred from them,. that Ministers the same places, during the same period. argument would not leave the Cro;
Kiertof Wurtemberg, and the Minister of 'he King I had amnestied to the occupation o Saxony. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER barrsssed oti the subject, and make
of Hanover, upon a pointofetiquette who should take! Mr. BATHURST had stated, that Ministers did • was not aware that any inconvenience could result whether the militia should be die%
precedence,like theceremottious h tdies of two tie* ly. o
i sot rest the statement as to Saxony upon the fact that from the measure, and it was agreed to.
Unless it could be staled, that d
but th • ti• • l ASSIZE OF BR FAD. reign enemies likely to invade this
baked Baronets at a country bait. Such were the ' the Congress bad not yet met, upon their o taa
Mr. Alderman SMITH said, be should to-morro* intestiee foes, the inference must be
ridiculous antics played bythe ..
•
Vientia, instead of proceeding to discharge the ins- : fate of that reentry was, not finally decided. As to i move for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the as-was at liberty to retain this species
portent duties with which they were entrusted. Mr, the force necessary to carry into effect the Treaty of : size of bread within ten miles of London. reasons for raising it' had entirely
Whitbread hoped to receive an answer upon these Chaumont, this country kept up its portion of Mr. HORNER gave notice, that be should on Gentlemen consider to what mum
points, and if the Chancellor of the nschequer did 73.000 men, but did not pay any part of the quotas .'`
Thursday submit to the House a motion on the sob. would lead, even if applied to tin
so far cortileecend, it would be necessary for him to of the other parties.
. ject of the Naval Administration of the war in North alone.—a war which was carried on
condescend still further, and to show why he had Mr. 'TI ER NEI contended, that if the whole of America. as not merely to exclude all
5
not
. *tottered them before. We now lived in an age the 7.5,000 men, the portion kept up by this coon. DISEMBODYING OF THE MILITIA. speedy termination, but such as seemed tube settlel
Sir S. ROMILLY desired that the Militia Acts, there the seeds of eternal discord, lie and
mhen free nations were not to be soldand transferred try, was not employed in the Netherlands, the
48th and 49th of the King, might
.be read. [They that the conduct of the Ministers was sanction 4 -le,
like beasts of burden or drat es of cattle, mid if any part of that force which was serving out of that .
were read by the Clerk.] He said, that it could the high authority of the haw Officers of the Cr •
attempt of that kind was made, the result would be country was assisting in the spoliation committed innis.
" hardly be necessary for him to apologise to the Their opinion he had not seen, but he
[bloody and revengeful war. It was folly to talk of Saxony. Would the Right Hon. Gentleman y,
House,
certain,
ease, for drawing its attention to a subject of should have thought it entitled to tnererespect, Ife
repealing the Property Teri—Ministers were wise in that the provisional occupation of Saxony had the
such importance: but he should need more encase' had been given ander different cireumsta k
coetineing it, and would perhaps be wiser If they . consent of Lord Castlereagh?
than he ought to obtain, if he had brought forward the opinion had been given first, and acted, e -
made it a perpetual Bill, for they were about to per- Mr. BATHURST stated, that Saxony bad been
.. . . Past
the subject without due and mature deliberation, forwards, it would have been mach better; w
-petuate war, which rendered it necessarv.—[fleer, before occupied by Russia, and that this provisionalatom
hear, hear!j—He concluded by reheating his tease e and the
occupation by p,us,ja was simply a transfer of hose . merely to embarrass his Majesty s Ministers, Ministers bad chesen to act first, and thee
Rens respecting Saxony and Poland. j session from one Power to another. As to Poland, make them look awkward in their situations. On plied for a sanct;on of their proceedings. Seel
' The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER ;we had no right to negociate respecting it, as we had the contrary, he had taken all means within his not mean le insinuate that the opinions of net
had no objection to answer the question of the Hon. no force employed there. power to investigate the matter; he had considered officers would have been different under detente
Gent: As to Saxony, he believed, that the final I Mr. WHITBREAD observed, that this hair- it over and over again :he had consulted all those circumstances; but it was impossible not to lei
whom he knew most competent to judge of the busi- that the question came before them clothed Atte
fate of that country was not yet decided; much less splitting showed some ingenuity. But he asked,
meld tee believe, that a Willett Minister could be a -whether Prince Repnin would have stated before the ness, and had attentively weighed all that was urged
in favour of the Ministers. The result was, that he nions and measures they must be supposed to
. authority of those great Statesmen, iu whose*
rely to such a decision upon the subject, as the world that Lord Castlereagh had acceded to the Con- '
was of opinion that in omitting to disembody the eni- as they still held their places under theereari. Di
Non. Gent. seemed to think had takes place. He maim' if he were not borne oat by the fact? If
desired this might be remembered by the House, as these documents were forgeries, thou their author litia, the Ministers had acted illegally and utteonsti- causes of calling out the militia had ceased; son
hereafter it might be of use to bear it in mind. If ought to be punished, if not, Lord Castlereagh ought tati"allY• When he used this term Nerd, he was ought to be matter of deep consideration with Z.
he did not believe what was stated of Saxony, as lit- 'to come home. The documents stated, that the se. far from meaning that the militia so eft:dinned were nisters, how far they were justified in C005i1141/15,
the could he believe, that a British Minister could preme Administration of Saxony was handed over to exempt from their usual military aluty: they were the country those heavy burthens under whitish"
be a party to any plan fur contistutag the subjection Prussia by a Convention between Russia and that still subject to military law, 20. bound to pay the had so long laboured. If any great and erre
of Poland. Power, which was acceded to by Austria and EL g. the strictest obedience to their Commanders. It re- cause existed for such a proceeding, let it be fee
Mr. Ne IHTBREAD begged leave to understand land. Wheneter was that Convention ? Have Mi- maiued solely with his Wejesty to disembody and and fairly stated to the House. In 1776 the Minim,
the Right Hon. Gent. correctly. Did he mean to nisters rsceived it ? If all this was forgery let that release them : and the only question was, whether ,of the day had amply represented to the fieentie
say, that he did net believe the fate of Saxony to be be told; but if it was all true, then the House, with his Majesty ought not, according to law, to have reasons for their conduct ; those persons, to say tit
already decided, or that a British Minister could be contrition, shame, and humiliation would perceive, been advised so to disembody them. There were lust of' them, were not supposed to have a vetyck
a party to the suppression of the independence of that even before Congress had met, Great &itais many questions of ere; agative involved in great die- perstitious veneration fcr the Constitution of tete
Poland ? The Right His;;. Gent., in the anticipation had incurred the shame and infamy of having con- ficulty : they could only be solved through the me- country, yet they had not ventured to do what hai
of his future triumph, had desired the House to re- sensed to such an act of robbery. diem of abstract reasoning and mizzlieg aita:ogi2s : beeu done by the present Administration. Mini
member, what he said on this occasion. What- Mr. BATiluttiT said there was a great differ. but on this question there could be no difficulty.— , treated both the house a:;d the country with an
ever may be the reauit, he was ready to bear his mice between a forgery and an unauthenticated do. It depended entirely on the plain words of the Sea- respect, and had entered into the fullest ententee
share of the blame of having been in error; and he content. He had asserted that these documents were tote : it retteired :to lawyer to interpret them. for of *their motives and their 'conduct. He coactin
should he rejoiced to find that he had been mistaken. unauthenticated on the authority of the last dis- every man who could understand. English was a set that Ministers span this occasion, as well u to
He had not accus:d Lord Castlereagh of favouring' patches from Lord Castlereagh, which were of the ficient jorlee of tee it import. The Act says, diet many others, had treated- that House with the
the project against the independence of Poland. He 11th instant, the Proclamation being of the Bth. the militia are to be marched from their respective greatest cotifempt. As some regiments bad Ina
had spoken may of the rumour that had reached him t Mr. TI ER N EY—" Then we have one fact, that counties for four r•-asons,—either on acc loot of ac- disembodied *bile others were kept op, it teemoin
on the subject. But still he thought that Lord Cas. 'in the last dispatches from Lord Castlereagh there tual invasion, or of the rear of it, r.: z • .11 el:i o 9, or if they supposed that the Crown bad a rigid .leer
tlereegh ought to have made some communication at is no mention of Prince Repnin's Proclamation." insurrection. The terms we:e exprers ati,l ,:uf.Rri:nt- body or di;ernhody the militia as it thought pricer.
least lit his Colleagues as to the state of the proceed.: Mr. WHITIIREAD--" Nor any of the provi- ly intelligible. The Act went on to say, that Par- Although, in the present instance, some cameo
ings of Congress on these points. , sional occupation of Saxony." liament should alwaes be expressly acqua i nt ed U.oill comp!aitted of partiality in the deciding which re.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER! Mr. LITTLETON having resided a considerable the mavens for calling out the miiizia ; and if Par- g;mPt,'s were to be disembodied, and 'hick vete
hoped he should not be misunderstood. He had said ! time in the country, could assure the liouse, that liament were not sitting, they were to be called to- to be kept op, yet that was not a pelt the
he believed the fate of Saxony not to have been yet : the whole of its popieetion' with the exception oe gether by proclamation for the purpose of informs- he meant at all to contend about.—He coo.
decided, because the Conerreas, with which the final half a dissect individuals geiioel over by Russian bri- tion on Ibis important subjeet• if the ;louse would sidered the great importance of the case to ic
decision rested, had not yet met. lie, therefore, bery, or by the orders distributed amongst them by consider the object of the militia laws, it would be *sit regarded the privates, who were still sakjectts
considered the actual possession of that country by ' the Emperor, demanded back their King, he wish- confirmed in the opinion, that without a violation an extremely harsh law, and to cruel privations, e
Prussia, as only a provisional military occupation. ed lie could say their Elector. The whole of the of the constitution, his Majesty's Ministers could a time that they had naturally supposed that thy
As to Poland, ;,e should repeat what he had stated, spoliation could be traced to the Councils of Russia, 'not in a time of profound peace hold the militia away would have been disembodied. They were still Is
that he did not believe any British Minister would which Power %%anted Poland, and was ready to give from their homes and families, subject to all the dif- 'be torn from their families, and from the sockeye(
-create an intpeditnent to the re-establishment of the Saxony to Prussia as an equivalent. i ficulties and privations of military service. The in- theft children, whom they had hoped to maintain sty
independence of that country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ' stitution of the militia had always been considered their own exertions. He considered that if a siffila
Mr. lIERNEY wished to know whether the stated, that the Convention which had been alluded as a most excellent branch of our constitution, and force was stilt to be maintained, it would be dealt
Right Hon. Gent.denied, that military occupation to had no existence, as far as related to this coon. on which we might firmly rely for the support of of Parliament rather to proceed to another Whet
.
of Saxony was vetted in the Prussians, as appeared try. . our liberties. There bad always prevailed a just : than to continue in the service men who had evele
by Prince Repnin's Proclamation ?He was himself Mr. WHITBILEAD.—Then Prince Repnin has jealousy of a standing army, as a force which might right to calculate on being discharged. This wail
ready to bear his, full share of the responsibility me. told a falsehood iu the face of Europe. .be employed against the independence of thetountry, be better than to sanction this ex pod facto lax a
weed by thellight Hon. Gent., when he desired the On the reading of the resolution of the sum for separated as the soldiers were from the rest of their' regulation of the Crown, by whichruen were oblied
Howie !n rememear what he had stated this night. Parliamentary services, • countrymen by their different code of laws, by their to continue their services for a longer period tbs
But what del the Eight lien. Gent. mean by provi- l Mr WHITBREAD said, he observed that there habits of thinking, by their modes, of living, and from they were by law required. Whatever might belt
sional eccopatioi. ? Tee Proclamation of Prince Rep. I was a mum of one hundred and five pounds to Mr. being embarked in their profession for life. But the! opinion of the House upon the question he wasme
Din to the Saxons stated, that they had become, : Rose, in compensation for Acts of Parliament : he militia was a constitutional body : not an army, but a I tremely glad that he had brought it forward. Retail
without an 7 limitation, subjects of the King oft did not know, but it seemed from this statement that mass of armed citizens; never disjoined from their fa.l !fie
at least seen in after times,that the ceed. d
pro tag
Prussia. 1 esterday the Right Hon. Gent. argued ', erery Member was as much eutitled as that Right mulles, except in urgent cases, and even when on ae- Ministers did not pass the House without 'mad
I ant Ile
hypothetically as to Sicily, this day he reasoned-upon i Hon. Gent. tual service, not losing, but only having suspended for lino,- and posterity would be able to judge of the ro
his belief with respect to Saxony. But if the occu-1 The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER a time the advantageof the equal laws of their country 1 lid . hy of tbearguments then advanced. Re trusted
ration of that country was intended to be perma- • said, it was a sum granted by custom to the Clerk of He must therefore confess, that though he admired ; that they would consider the present instance ratter
nest, Lord Castlereagh ought not to base remained : the Parliament, an office filled by Mr. Rose. . those high spirits who, on an occasion of extraor- 'as an example to be avoided, than to be followed. He
at Vienna one moment after he was in possession of ! Mr. WHITBREAD enquired into the meaning of dimity emergency had' volunteered their services to concluded by moving a Resolution, which was in sub-
the fact. He would In that case be reduced to the the sum of 6,0001. voted for the conveyance of the fight a foreign enemy abroad, yet, perhaps, it might j stance as follows:
situation of a mere automaton, and could not sub. Prince of the Brazils. be matter of regret that they had not sacrificed their' eTe • alit appeared to the House, that as peace had his
mit to such a degradation without bringing disgrace The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER personal glory to the benefit of that Constitution ' concluded for more than sit months, and the country nojnyei
upon his ceuntry. This was a case more fit to be said, that the Prince had applied for a British mail which their very gallantry tended to infringe. The ' itwrual tranquillity, the till keeping part of the siiitio feu
taken up by Parliament, as we were to pay a part jof war to carry him to his country, and the sum in. precedent might be drawn into evil : it might de.' embodied was obviou.lv contrary to the intent and spirit Of*
of the troops employed in taking possession of l eluded the outfit, stores, and other articles necessary stroy the character of militia bodies: what bad in Act of tht• tad of the kin, and a violation of the principesi
_ ______ _ Saxony. I for that purpose__----- the first instance been considered as gratuitous, mightthe Constitution."
____

Mr: BATHURST observed, that this country
was not a party to the Convention with Prussia re-
lative to the occupation of Sixony. Neither were
Ministers responsible for the instructions given to a
Foreign General over whom they had no controol.
They had official information, as Gentlemen might
h.tve understood, from what had fallen from his
Right Hon. Friend, that the British Minister had
not consented to the final decision of the fate of Six-
ony. That question rested with the Congress—the
congress had not yet met, and, therefore the British
Minister could not have assented to what had not
been decided.
Mr. PONSONBY was milling to suppose that
neither the British Minister nor the King of Prussia,
could have been a party to the permanent spoliation
of Saxony. The first article of the Treaty of Chau-
mont between Prussia and Great Britain stipulated
the combined employment of all their means to ob-
tain for themselves and their Allies a peace under
which the rights and liberties of all the nations of
Europe should ,be re-established. This was the te-
your of the first article of the Treaty of Chaumont;
and thin country kept op or paid 75,000 men for
carrying that Treaty into effect. Yet the Procla-
mation of Prince Repnin stated, that the Saxons were
handed over as subjects to the King of Prrissia " and
his descendants." It also congratulated them upon
the virtues of that Sovereign in adversity, and his
magnanimity in prosperity! It was the army of
Caxany that, at the battle of Lcipsic, enabled the

Mr. A-It tiUTII NOT said, the sum was 4,6001. and
not 6,0001.: it was advanced at the desire of the Ad-
miralty.
Mr. CROKER. added, that it was usual to allow
officers, under such circumstances, tottaw for a sum
sufficient to enable them to make proper prepare.
lions • and that the whole sum in this case would not
exceed the established allowance.
The rest of the Resolutions were then agreed to.
Mr. WHITBREAD moved the third reading of
the False Measure Bill.
It was read and passed.
The Habeas Corpus Amendment Dill, on the mo-
tion of Mi. Serjeaut ONSLOW, was read a second
time.
Ordered to be committed on Fridays the 10th of
February next.
Mr. TIERNEY rose to ask when the adjourn-
ment uould take place ; and how long it would
last ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said it was his intention, if the Bills from the Lords
should be returned in time, to move on Thursday
next that the House should adjourn till the 9th day
of February.
Sir J. NEWPORT gave notice of' a motion to.
morrow, as to fees in Chancery. •
Mr. P. GRANT moved for a retorts of all pet.
loners, male and female, committed to gaol at Great
Sessions, during the years 1813.14, statiniethw crimes
for witich they were indicted, and the different pa.

hereafter he expected as a right. From the earliest The SOLICITO:1-GENERAL said, he remaiad
times it had been the law, that su:h persons could not . still of an opinion quite contrary to that ddicerell
be compelled to serve out of their counties. In the =by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman just sat dein,.
reign of Edward I. it was expressly enacted, that a by whom his Mijesty's Law Officers were represta•
case of sudden invasion should be the only excel). ; ed as having acted illegally in not advising the If*
lion to this rule. That Act was confirmed by the i embodying of the Militia. Setting aside the gal'
4th Henry IV., and so the law continued till the lion of expediency, the right of keeping lewd*
troubles iu the reign of Charles I.—ln the time of Militia when fairly called out, was clearly a disbud
Charles 11. the militia was again regulated on the . branch of the Prerogative; for there was an mesa'
same footing. By an Act of George 11. the case of: difference, as the Act stood, between the calliegS
rebellion was added, but not the case of insurrec- : and keeping op the Militia.—[liyar, hear !]-11111
Bon: because the Parliament was at that time jealous his Majesty could not call out the Militia, escape is
that this force might be converted into an instrument . the cases specified in the Act for that porposs,
of offence, and it enacted that the reasone for calt- was ready to :rant ; but when the same Legistsfie
ing out the militia should be expressed in deed provided uo time for limiting the continues/
meta, and if it were vacation, that Parliament •of the Militia in their embodied %tee he considereia
should be convened for that purpose. The lath and quite legal, on the part of the Crown, to remit' awl
ad of the present King followed, and the same continue them. Certainly there were circumstances
provisions and safeguards were continued, though it ! which were necessary to the Militia being called ad
wagnow added, that the militia might be called out —invasion, insurrection, retellion, yet no raj'
to plead invasion as well as to repel it. The first ; shun was enacted with the prospect of their dime.
Act was passed in consequence of the American war, bodying. It appeared to him a mistake to sumo,
and it met with considerable opposition, though its, that, after this' stateuente, the /louse possessed e•
duration Wei only to befOr afreloW years. Now what ; remedy in the pass before them. Besides the rev.'
was the present case ?-0n the Stil of last June peace ; sibilify of Minieers, as to the Melee they gas*
was signed with and we enjoyed the mist Crown, those Miiiiiters were obliged to come to the
perfect lantlety at home- If, in spite of this,. House to ask for anneal supplies for the Militia. sod
the d remain embodied, there was not reneuals of the Mhtisiv Bill; and the withhe:dial
reason why it itsight not so continue during all the I of either, would-render it hope sate for his Atka,
toilet hieMsjoaay's reign. Th. only floreelevwhich Ito coweiviee. Oro Militia, MI still meant to &fell
be bad heard was, that this country was still at war the opinion be gave, that there was nothing at