The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-03-13 00:00:00

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netfee XW tiS4 bolder* of 3 per Cott.
Stock, as well as to those whose property was vetted in
thl Mort; to this he would mower, that there was .no
suck provision in the Act of Gen. 111. The chief ques-
tion-on which he should new give his opinion wan, whe-
ther 25 Millions of the public debt had keen redeemed
according to the provision of the Act of Goo. 111. ao
that point he would say that 23 inillions of debt hal
*orally been paid off; that such was the soderstanding
.44. the holders of the 5 per Cents.; and that understand-
ing on the part of the holders was pro tanto, an nun-
meet that such had bees the opinion of the Lggislalnre
...namely, that the aderoption ofY3 millions was s ful-
filment of the condition stated' In the Act, -although
more debt might afterwards bare been created. Nut be
would go farther, and maintain that. tile redemption of
the Land Tax was a redemptina of debt. This was his
opinion, add in stating it he wisaClaateil liv the purest
motives. With regard to the political part of this tines-
doe, he would not trouble the Home with one word
upon it.- He had no motive in addressing. the House,
but merely to give his opinion on the I.lw of the ease.
Earl GREY disclaimed any wish to give effect to the
attempts said to have been made to defeat the present
. His only Object was to save the House from
the stain which would Mil on its character, if, without
dde consideration. and with an unusual degree of un-
called for precipitation, it should pass a Bill of so im-
portant a nature as that before their Lordships. He
thanked the Noble Earl on the Woolsack for the pains
;width he had taken to clear away the doubts which he
(Earl Grey) had yesterday expressed. Having every
poesihle interest to see that the proposed reduction
&bosh' be carried into effect, and that the Public should
be relieved as far as it was pro:timid* be felt it his duty,
if Bop doubts remained on his wird, to state them tg the
Honer, Ind In *dome their Lordships to reject the
asst iO. to *Maim dew for its due inv
taglk Malloy, theme dadivideals whole

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--vm...•....F., am, fee otiosideaafielli Wade Attain pawn Into a taw.
...mem oweellatentobre 'unfit VS million* ft The explanations given on some points had not removed
the National Debt einAhl bore been paid la The elw- all doubts, and none whatever bad been afforded respect-
pie qnession for their Gerdships to consider wee. who. ing the registering of Dissents. Further time was the'.'.
ther 25 millions had bee* so discharged as to give Par- fore indispensably necessary. He repeated that lie iii 4
fitment a right to flay off the Five per Croat. Stock. no interest whatever is the leader, save that the hotpot
Notwithstanding the opinions expressed in the Houses should consider the subject in such a manner as to ts:',
he thought that the Act reqnired that 25 millions of the measure on clear and intelligible ',moulds, and {J
National Debt to be bona fide discharceol, and not eon- chew that it was founded on undoubted right.
structively so. The difficulty had struck the Noble Earl The Earl of HARROWBY, in the course of some
on the Woolsack, although he had declared himself sa- observations, which were not distinctly %edible belts v
defied that the required amount had been cancelled the bar, vindicated the principle of the !heavier. Ha
by the operation of die Sinking Fond and the Sale of conelolered that the stock in question had alwayit beast
We Land Tax. He (Earl Grey) wished to ask, whether considered redeemable by law, and if it ha,l not Been -s 3
it was a bona fide reduction of the public burthens, or considered, it world not be at par, or at least .only. a
only a constructive redaction, whirls would enable little more. while the 3 per Cent. and other stock rose
Government to say that they had fulfilled the required considerably above par. It was qaite impossible the.
condition? He would put a ease to the Noble Earl on by the operation of a Sinking Fund of only 1,000,001 P:
the Woolsack.—Suppose that lie (Earl Grey) had an so large an amennt of debt as 25,000,0001. could be re-
ineumbrance of 10,0000. on his estates in the shape of
demo!, without any other debt bring contracted in
mortgage, and should wish to raise 5,000 f. more. He the meantime. Bet the Noble Earl (Grey) had sari
'applies to a person, who says that he is willing to lend that, by the operation of the law for the redemption of
the money at 5 per rent. interest, but in.ists that he the [mud Tax, the public burthens were not diminished.
shall not be paid off till 5.0001. of the original mortgage Ho, coda they be diminished if money was not raised.?
'shall have been extinguished. He (Earl Grey) sets the Rnt if the public• hardens were not diminished, the
money, but a change takes place, and he ran procure public debt was.—(Hear, hear.)—The Noble Bad then,
loans at a less interest. He therefore borrows 10,0001. as we understood him, proceeded to show that the dir-
ket pays off 5,0001. of the original mortgage, and then ferrite'. between the principle of dissent and assent was
comes to the other aria tells hint, you mnst be paid off, not worth arguing about. As to the likelihood of a
or must take only 4 per cent. interest for your money. war between Russia and Turkey, different opinions were
for I havefulfilled the condition.' of oar contract. t. Would entertained upon it by different men. He entirely
not the man object that the mortgage had only been agreed with his Noble Friend' near him, that if a war
paid off by contracting another debt? If the case were between those Powers was likely to produce an anti-
really put to the Noble Earlou the Woolsack as a judge, vourahle effect on the funds, the present measure ought
he would certainly take some time for consideration, or not to be adopted. Bnt after witnessing the state ot
at least to read the papers. Now the present Bill was uneettainty in which the nerociatione between Russia
not yet printed, and he (Earl Grey) was obliged even at and Tnrkey stood, were their Lordships to hold in ens-
that moment to speak of it without having read it. All pease a measure of great public importance, till the
Reclaimed for the public was merely to allow time to Cabinet of St. I'etersbnrgh and the Divan of Constar'.
consider die case in all its details: and not to admit tinople came to some final decision? The Noble Earl
that as a right which might be doubted. Ile protested then urged the advantages which the public must do-
against a mode of arguing the question, which he was rive front the plan, and said that thee'''. Noble Lords who
astonished to have beard from the Woolsack, that t"e were opposed to it ought sot to call for delay, bid state
house were to be guided in their decisions by the public their objections at once to the principle it involved.
opinion. As to the redemption of the land-tax. he
Lord ELLENBOROUGH was certainty anxious for
doubted whether it was a real or constructive fulfilment
further information oa the merits of the question. If
of the engagement entered into with the Five per Cent.
the 24th of Geo. 111. Lad any reference to the 25th Go,.
Stockholders, and an effective reduction of the public
11. it was clear that the h per Cents. were not redeem-
bnrthens. The Noble Earl then contended that the 16th
able by law. In his mind, however, such reference was
clause of 37th Geo. 111. referred to the 25th tiro. 11.
not aarent. The first claim of the creditor would
with respect to the manner in which Stock should be re-
naturapplly he, that the stock should not be done shoe
deemed, and therefore placed the fire per Cents. on
till the existing debt at the time teeing was redoiceta in
the same footing, as to the necessilr ofoneyear's notice,
the :monist of 25,000,0001. The only advantage that
as the three per Cents. All he state) was donlk, and all
could result from delay was the obtaining of further
he required from his Majesty's Ministers was time to
evidence; and as their Lordships had the power to ca'l
consider the measure. Ile bad no personal interest in in the Judges, he thought it maybe be expedient to do
the question. All that he desired was fair and open deal-
so. It did not appear to him quite clear that the 5 per
ing. With respect to the second point, that of Dissent.
Cents. could, toiler existing circa:est/races, be redeemed
the Noble Earl opposite had stated that the mode which
he had proposed was supported by I Parliamentary el' 'a'.
The Marquess of LANSDOWNE was satisfied the
precedents. It would have been well if the Noble Karl
had looked at the precedent established by Mr. Pelham, right of redemption did exist on the part of his Majes-
when he paid off a part of the 4 per Cents. It was not ty'e Miniaters, and that the statute of George 111. had
the act of dissenting' that was reopiired; lint the dissents been complied with. The Noble Marquess was not de-
were to be regularly entered in a book, and their authors 'aunts of itemising the House ma those points, but at the
became liable to be paid in the order in which they had same time he thought it would he desirable to have the
been inscribed. Was this.. early payment meant as • opinions of the Learned Judges. After stating the itn-
threat or a reward? Whichever it might be, it was a pression upon his mini with respect to those points, lie
proceeding unworthy of the Minister of a greatimontry was bound to state his objection to the form in which
to propose, and of*. dignity of the house to adopt.— the dissents were taken. The Noble Earl, President
Whether the registering of dissent% were intended uo of the Council, said it was a matter of indifference how
place the dissenting indlvidnal is a better or a worse si- persons rap d their dissent. He differed from
Patios, it was squally anima, as they all stool, or the view taken by the Noble Earl, and was satisfied
ought to stand on the name gremod of elnallty. Was it the stockholder was entitled to the most equitable mode
Wended to mob an elm** Vi tieimbue( the stock of treatment. According to the perveat arrengemeot,
'bleb they? Au impreaeloo moue they imposed oa the stockholder diet which he wow
cm
ejr
*patio, thou who awal•lhe puM silliest, mold. comitier disadvantageous and compulsory. The alter-


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