The Statesman.
London, England, 1824-02-13 00:00:00

TrIE STATESMAN

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of commerce. He believed that- this part of the inquiry
would lake np more time than all the others when the
matter came before the Committee, as it was unnecessary to
say the justice of the case required that they should hear
evidence from the different districts, and all that was urged
for and against the measure. He could not undertake to
anticipate- what the result would be, but be had no doubt
bet that when the house had the whole case before them,
they would come to a sound conclusion. The qnestion
was this, whether they would not turn the exportation of
machinery to some public account, or suffer it to be sent
oat of the country furtively to the profit of individuals
alone; for it was undeniable that, in spite of all the laws,
the machinery found its way to foreign parts. Would it
not then be a most important traffic., if we could make this
country the grand manufactory ior machinery for the
whole world? It was to all others the most profitable
manufacture,for there was no other instance in which the
same quantity of rude materials (which are bought so
cheaply), when fashioned in a particular way, brought so
high a price. The increased demand too for other states
would serve to give employment to a greater number of
bands, and a greater share of capital, and consequently add
to the national wealth. The great difficulty, however,
seemed to be to get over the prejudices which prevailed on
this subject. This was the more unwarrantable, because,
in fact, here the modes in which patents were obtained for
machinery, and the principal part of the machinery was
protected by patent, it was open to every foreigner to make
himself acquainted with the principles by which the parti-
cular machine was built. What were the steps to be taken
to obtain a patent? In the first place the person applying
was to enregister a specification of the particular inven-
tion, in a manner so complete that any person could build
one similar to it. Now, what was there to prevent a
foreigner from obtaining this information, when any
one might go to the Patent Office and see the
specifications?—(Hear, hear, hear!)—We were therefore
only depriving ourselves of the benefits which we might
derive from building machinery for others, instead of fur-
nishing them with the means of helping theinsely. 5.—
Me hoped he had stated clearly the objects which he bad
in view, as to this part of the proposition. Upon the
next branch, it world be necessary t 3 say but a few
words. For a very long time, and under various modifi-
cation, a system of law had existed, imposing punishments
upon individual artisans uniting or combining together to
rise their wages. In consequence of these, no workmen
can consult together as to their proper employments, how-
ever small or unequal the wages may be, under pain of
fine or imprisonment. Thus are the masters protected
against the journeymen. But in what way were these
latter protected against their employers ? They were but
few in cumber, they were generally rich, often influential,
no obstacle was placed to their consulting together, and
here it happened every day that they did put their heals
together, and give the journeymen just what they pleased.
lie had by him now certain resolutions entered into be-
tween the master shoemakers, saddlers, and other trades-
nen in town, not to give more than a certain amount of
wages to the journeymen ; whereas, if the men entered in-
to resolutions not to take less than a certain sum, they
'would be subject to fine and imprisonment. The conse-
quence of this state of things was a general feeling of dis-
satisfaction amongst the journeymen, who, of course, felt
that towards them the law was not equal, but that it made
a distinction between the rich and poor. Thus it appear-
ed that. in one respect, at least, the men were nut protect-
ed against the masters, who were protected against them.
But it might be said, that to relax the restrictions on the
journeymen, would make them insolent and troublesome ;
in answer to that he should say, that journeymen were
not very desirous of leaving their work, and he had been
assured by one who was conversant with these facts,
that never was there a strike for wages until they were
driven to the last extremity. If a fair competition was
opened to them, it would tranquillize their minds
by giving them a confidence in the laws and in their em-
ployers. But were these Combination Laws necessary to
trade? lie bad been assured by the Hon. Member for Peter-
borough. whose absence he regretted at this moment,
that if al: the laws relating to combinations amongst work-
men were swept from the Statute Book, the commou law
was still sufficient to meet every case of combination
(Item., hear, from Mr. Sergeant Onslow, and the other law-
yers in the house.) If that was the case, and lie had no
doubt it was, lie asked why were a body of laws, which
gave such general dissatisfaction, suffered to remain on
the statute bunk so long I It was difficult to imagine to
what au extent the prejudice in favour of these laws was
carried. Would it be believed that the journeymen them-
selves were many of them favourable to them? It was a
fact, however, for within the last fourteen days. a public
meeting was called of the Spitallield weavers, to consult
them upon the propriety of petitioning for a repeal of these
laws, which left them at the discretion of their masters,
and they actually said, that they were satisfied with the
combination laws as they stood, and did not wish to make
any alteration in them. It was to be hoped, however, that
the prejudice would be soon dissipated, and that the jour-
neymen would be left to make the best bargain they could
for themselves. When the matter went before a Commit- ,
tee, lie trusted all the documents in any way relating to this
matter would be laid upon the table, for lie did not wish
that any measure should be adopted without the fullest
consideration. But without the co-operation of Govern- ;
ment, it was not to be expected, that the measure would i
take effect. He hoped, however, that in the present
advanced state of knowledge no objection would be
raised to the removing of these restrictions. Indeed,
if the Ministers gave their cordial co-operation, he was
sure there would be no difficulty in removing the whole of
Viese restrictions—(Hear, bear.) The Hon. Member con-
cluded by moving—
" That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into
the state of the law of the United Kingdom, and its effects,
which prevented artisans from lcavit.g the kingdom, and
residing abroad."
Also, " To inquire into the laws regarding the re-
moval and exportation of machinery, and their copse-
(pence:J."
Also, " To invite into the laws and its effects, regard-
ing the combinations of workmen and others to raise their
wages, or arrange their hours of work."
Mr. HUSKISSON said, lie should detain the house but
a few minutes. He did not rise to give any opposition to
the motion, in the principles of which he entirely concur-
ed, as he did in the notice which was given by the Hon.
Member at the end of last session. At the same time lie
wished it to be understood, that be considered himself at
liberty to take any course of proceeding which he judged
fit upon the wide and extended subject to which the Hon.
Member alluded, when it came to be discussed upon the
evidence adduced, and the whole .bearing of the ease—
(Hear.) lie had no difficulty in string, however, that lie
concurred in a great deal that had fallen from the Hon.
Member; upon the first point, namely, the justice of per-
ndtting artisans and labourers to carry their labour to the
best market, he had very little doubt. It appeared to him
that the moment the policy of restrictive laws was called
in question, the burthen of proving them necessary,
which was the only case to warrant legal disabilities of
any sort, rested with those who maintained the necessity
of such disabilities. (Hear.) And this necessity should
be called for by so me great pubc inteest, not that rivate
interest of those who employelid the artisans, or p
of any
particular branch of the community, but a great and para-
mount interest which made the welfare of the many be pre-
ferred to the convenience of a few. It was only a neces-
sity of that sort which could justify the Legislature in im-
posing restrictions on that, which Adam Smith rightly
called the property of every Mao. Nobody could question
the right which every man had to carry his science and
acquirements to wherever he found the best market for

them, and if that offered in another conetry rather
than this, he ought not to be prevented front going
there.—(Hear, bear.)—The first question, . in looking
at these laws, was, whether they were wise and just ; the
second, whether they were practicable. Ills own opinion
was, that they produced no other effect than leading to
perjury, and that they dill not prevent any artisan from
going abroad who could take a Custom House oath.
But they prevented persons who had once left the country
and realised money from returning again to it, through
dread of the fines which attached to them for first leaving
it. In every view of the case, it was desirable that the
freest intercourse should 1)-1 permitted to artisans to leave
the kingdom and return as they pleased. lie himself knew
as a fact, that many of the manufactories in France were
under the management of Englishmen, and, in fact,
worked altogether by natives of this country. Might it
not be expected that these persons, after reaping some
profits from their sojourn on the Continent, would return
to this country, if they were not prevented, by the fear of
punishment ; or at least that, in the fluctuations of trade,
they would occasionally exercise their calling's here? At
all events it would be beneficial to the industry of the
country, that the whole matter should go before a Com-
mittee of this boost.. Upon the second point, namely,
the exportation of machinery, the Hon. Member had him-
self admitted that the opinions of the country were more
divided. The conce,sion of this house appeared to him a
necessary consequence of the other, for if the artisans to
whose ingenuity the discovery of machinery was owing.
were allowed to leave the kingdom, they carried with them
the principles upon which the machinery was constructed
and which could, therefore, he made abroad as well as at
home. And then let it be well ascei Hued, that the present
laws were effectnil for the purposes for which they
were intended. Ile was of opinioo that they u•-re not
so, for he had reason to know that the most cumbersome
and expensive machinery bad been sent abroad,
notwithstanding the law. Knowing this, it was time
to look to what account this traffic might be turned.
lie wished to reserve himself until the evidence of all in-
terested in the sulect had been taken, but at present be
had no hesitation in saying, that he strongly inclined to
the opinion, that the inilitsfry and itiannfactnres of the
cminfry would he more benefited by taking off the re-
strictions than by the present law.—(Hear.) He was now
come to the lion. Netnher's third proposition, namely.
that respecting the Combination Laws, as they were call-
ed. This was a siihket of very great complexity and ex-
tent, if it was only kr the industry which would be re-,
quired to collate the various contradictory laws which had
been made upon the subject. Upon a general view, be
should say that all the laws which hail been made against
combinations only served to multiply them.—(Hear.) For
the very making of a law against the journeymen. sug-
gested to them the injury which their interests had suf-
fered, and from that moment they tried how they could
best evade it. Besides. they had always the effect of pro..
gluing ill blood and jealousies between the employer and
his men, whereas the opposite feelings were those which
ought to cherished. But the very circumstance of there
being maey laws witi.li ought to be repealed, 'famished
ground enough for going into this Committee. He could
not, however, say with the Hon. Member for Aberdeen,
that if all the laws against combinations were swept from
the Statute• Book, there Wee still enough in the common
law to punish such associations. lie would not venture to
give an opinion upon a subject with which he was unac-
quainted ; but it appeared to him that where a man con-
tracts to work with another for a certain time, there must
he some summary mode of compelling the performance of
that contract. No doubt the propositions now put for-
ward would have to encounter much prejudice, but it
was most desirable that they should be taken up by a
Committee of the House of Commons. Upon all
these grounds, instead of opposing the Hon. Member's mo-
tion, he wished to be the foremost in supporting it. And he
thought that the country was mach indebted to the, lion. Mem-
ber for the diligence and industry with whidt he had brought
the question under the consideration of the house, in both
of which qualities he was not exceeded by any one.—(Hear.)
He elan meat sin. erely concurred with that lion. Memh, rin
lamenting the loss of an lion. Friend of
call ids
Rkardo.)
whom he (Mr. 11.), would take leave to call hiS friend also,
and where assistance upon this oaession would be so saleable.
No one could have a higher respect for the acuteness of reason•
ing and strength of mind which that gentleman possessed, and
no one regretted his loss more than he did.—(ilear, hear,)—
Ills public conduct was marked by a sincerity and candour,
and his whole career showed a man bent only on pursuing his
Public duty. His presence in this House wns as great a bene-
fit ns his talents were an ornament to our country, ur,d time
might elapse before his place would be worthily filled. (Hear.)
It was to be hoped, however, that every thing which diligence
could do upon this question would be done to supply his loss,
and that the Committee right be enabled to make such a re-
port as might lend Parliament to distinguish what part of these
laws it was expedient to strike from the Statute Book, and
retain those by which the manufactures at home, and the com-
merce abroad were promoted.—(Hear. hear.)
Mr. BIRCH said a few wor,!s in a low tune of voice, as it
was understood, in favour of the motion.
The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. 11UNII•i thou said that he held in his hand a list of those
gentlemen whose assistance would be most useful to the Com-
mittee. lie should, however, be most willing to accept of the
assistance of any lion. Member who would dive his assistance.
He then moved that the Committee do consist of the following
Members, which was agreed to, viz:—
Mr. Hume, Mr. iauskisson,Mr. C. tlrant,Mr. St urdesilourne,
the Attorney General, Mr. liennet, Mr. Dawson. Mr. Bernal,
Mr. Frankland Lewis, Sir H. Parnell, Mr. Phillips, Mr. Davies
Gilbert, Mr. Peter Moore. Mr. Stuart Wortley. Mr. Pares,
Mr. Littleton, sir Thos. Ackland, Mr. T. Wilson, Mr. Itob•
house, dc. and that fire be a quorum.
Lord ALTHORP nave notice that on Monday he would
bring in a Dill to repeal the 26111 of the late King, which per-
mitted Landlords in Ireland to distrain the growing crops, and
that on Wednesday he would bring in a Bill to facilitate the
recovery of small debts.

SUPPLY.
Upon the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER, the Report of the Committee or Supply was brought
up and laid upon the table. The Resolutions which had been
agreed to in the Committee were then read a second time, and
agreed to by the house.

WAYS AND MEANS.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER gave notice
that he would to-morrow more for the house going into a
Committee of Ways and Means, in which he should propose
the continuation of the Sugar Duties, and an issue of Exche-
quer Bills.

ARMY ESTIMATCS.
Lord PALMERSTONE gave notice that he should bring
forward the Army Esoimates to-morrow se'nnight.
Lord PALMERSTON brought up Returns of all applica-
tions for Special Vestries made by parishes in Ireland under
4th of Geo. 4, cap. 99, stating where Commissioners had been
appointed, and where the Vestries had adjourned sine die.—
Laid on the table,
Adjourned at six o'clock.

LITERARY SOCIETIES.-The following Resolutions were
lately moved in the Dublin Literary Society by the Rev. E.
Tighe Gregory :
" Resolved—That to promote harmony in Society, and prae
fleet liberality, each Member be allowed. as a matter of
right, to destroy or mutilate any newspaper not coinciding
with his own private political sentitneuts; and that the same
license extend to the various books in the Library.
" Resolved—That animated fire screens, be prohibited in
these rooms.
0 Resolved—That no Gentleman be allowed to occupy two
chairs at the fire place at the same moment.
0 Resolved—That a portrait of Lord Chesterfield, of polite
memory. be placed above the chimney piece in the Cons ersa-
don Room."
They were declared indecorous and improper, and almost
unanimously dismissed with indignation. We presume they
must have been meant as a joke ; but still they are not un-
worthy of the serious attention of the frequenters of many
' Reading Rooms In England.

PARIS PAPERS.

The Paris Journals to Wednesday arrived last night. The
following article from the Journal des Drbats is curious, when
it is remembered how often France declared that she only in-
vaded the Peninsula for self defence,and when it is considered
that the Spanish Government, which is forced to make a re-
cognition of deht, is in a state of helpless insolvency
•• The Spanish Government has, in fact, acknowledged a
debt to France of 34400000 ; but it is not trite that there have
been appropria•ed for the payment of this debt any public pro•
ductions or revenues of t?pain.—lt is a simple acknowledg•
meat, without any sort of mortgage, or any indication of the
means of payment.
" When all the details of our intervention in the affairs of
Spain become known, when the convention fcr the stay of
our troops shall have been signed and published, it will he
seen with what generosity France has acted in this memorable
enterprize."
The following is from the Monitcur (non-official
part):—
• MADRID, Jay. Majesty has been slightly indis-
posed since yesterday, and keeps his room. The rest of the
Royal Family is in good health.
Great exertions are making to organise the Royal Spa-
nish Guard. At Madrid and in the Capitals of the Pro-
vinces men are enlisting for the service. It is said that a
Swiss battalion will not go away at the time first fixed,
but will for a certain period do duty with the new guard.
A slight tumult at Villacagnes was itnwediately put down
by the firmness of the Aleade. On the 20th of January
the Literals of Perasanda de Bracamonte acted in a menac-
ing manner, to which the people replied ; a battalion of
Royal Volunteers is gone from -Nladrid to ti at little town
to restore order.
It is to be observed that in general it is only in the two'
Castiles that the public tranquility is accidentally distnrbei
from time to time. The inhabitants nearer to toe focus of
the revolution were the first victims of the constitutional
system, and have suffered the mast. It was in these
Provinces too, that the revolution had at one time
assemblei its most faithful statellites, and they have left
feel traces of their odious power. The news hom the
Frontier Province*, and from those on the east and south,
are highly satisfactory."
(111011 THE ItTolLt OF ivEnNESDAT's DATE.)
MADRID, FEB. 2.—lt is affirmed that time decree of am-
nesty will soon be published, with the minlincationa pro-
posed by the Council of State and the Council of Castile,
whom his Mojesty consulted on this subject.
•4 It is affirmed. that by his Majesty's order the pro-
ceedings commenced against persons confined for political
misdemeanors shall be terminated in a fortnight. betters
front Lisbon of the Mb of January say, that the Consti-
tutional party continues to intrigue against the heroic
Charlotte of Bourbon, whom this party abhors, because
that courageous Queen was the chief cause of the destruc-
tion of that infamous party in Portugal. They have gone
so far as to pretend that she covered with her credit and
protection projects too odious to be even expressed.
A private letter, dated Zaire, Jan. 8, mentions the ar-
rival there, on their way to Missolunghi, of several per-
sons with money, ammunition, and clothing, for the
Greeks, obtained by means of subscriptions in England
and Germany. Two printing-houses are said to have been
established at Missolungbi. where a daily journal is to be
published under the title of the Grecian Chronicle. It is
added that the Greek Chieftain Odysseus had gained pos-
session of Carystos, in the Island of Euhrea, and was be-
sieging Erytlirwa, that other commanders were blockad-
ing Negropont, that Patras was so closely pressed that s;•-
veral Turkish families had been allowed to go forth under
a special arrangement, and the Greek prisoners in the
fort bad been released, and Oat M ivrocordaw was be-
sieging Lepanto. No mention is made of any Turkish
force. These accounts may he very correct, but certainly
the authority on which they rest is ler from unquestionab:e.
(FROM THE CONSTITUTCONNEL.)

PARIS, Feb. 10.—The world has now before it two great
lessons in what is passing in Spain and Turkey, and the
agreement between these two political ruins is quite exact
Turkey is as power:ess against lireece as Spain is against
America, and Spain has no more money nor credit than
Turkey. The tartans of Constantinople assemble the
Monks of Spain, and the world may learn something by
seeing both countries equally destitute of power, credit
and money. These two examples are more conclusive
against absolute power than a hundred volumes. While
this is the state of Spain and Turkey, England with her
liberty and civilization, see her three per cents. tip to 4J2,
and Prance with a less perfect liberty, sees her five per
cents. up to 100, who can cry out against liberty and
admire absolute power? Here we see it in its mitive purity,
with all its effects.
PARIR, Feb. 10.— FRENCH FUNDS.—Five per cents.
opened at 97f. 40e. ; closed at 97f. 20c. Loan of 1823, 91.
Bank Stock, 1,705 f. Neapolitan ltentes, S 2. Exchange
on London, one month, 25f. 45c.; three months 25t. 30c.

MAILS.
AR". DUE. ANTI. bre.
i....nullin 0 0 ...Pollen.% I
1....Waterf0r1.....0 0....11embr0 I
0.... G d:Jersey....o o.... France 0
o....Lishon 0 0 ...Flanders ....... I
I....Gottenberg 0 0....Ma1ta ••0

PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE OCLOCK.
Bank Stock.
3 per Ct• Red...... ..... 91 921 Ditto Bonds... —..75 .. 72
p Ct. Cons
. .. Ex-1301.94' 40 35 pm.
Pper Cent ...... _1(44/ 10001.
4 per Cents. •• • 1 --500/ ... 33 —pm.
New:Fours 196 1f .40 33 .•1 pop.
Long Ann. 22 9-10 7-10 Lottery Tickets. 191. 19
Imp. 3 per Ct Con. for Acct ...... • 91if
AIPIIIIII.I=MMUMM

e#c *tatednian.

FRIDAY EVEUNO, FEBRUARY 13, 1824.

STOCK EXCHANGE, 12 O'CLOCK.—Consols opened at 91if
and got up to at which price they remain, with little
doing.
Two Expresses having arrived this trimming; from Paris,
a report was circulated that the King of France was dead ;
but, on enquiry, we find the rumour incorrect, and that
when the Expresses left, he continued very ill.
FOREIGN MARKET.—To-day being the Account for
Spanish Bonds, most of the Brokers are busy settling.
Austrian Bonds have experienced a rise, owing to 23 per
cent• being paid yesterday by the holders of said Stock.
New Spanish, f to B—Old, NI a—Colombian 72/ to 73
—Austrian, 6I to 7-Chili, 804—Mexican Loan, 51
Russian, 92I—New Prussian, 91—Old,
93—Neapolitan,
82f to 83—French Scrip, 9g—Mexicas Mines, Hallett,
11 pm.

We have received, this morning, by express from Paris
Galignani's Messenger of Wednesday, of which the fol-
lowing are extracts :
Friday being the anniversary of the assassination of biel
late Royal Highness the Doke de Berry, all Theatres and
Ipublic places of amusement will be closed.
The subscription for the Greek Priest lsacharus, amounts
1 to 700 francs.