The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-04-16 00:00:00

THE STA.TF•SMAN

• (leis la thir mil; its .4'44 •colitbriFibit,
t iislcittatesi to sooitto billseuanegt.
itOisLE, in la
las.it tOise of voice, expressed
that if the prisposed airanilments could be
td. "alma iteposiscAey . addition!' Asatrdpis
?loge, nteaus Might not be negrette-Tar
obtaining so desirahte an object.
Lord 1)1‘; DU.NSTANV ELLE remarked, that even
if bill son) dedileVedTtii—RiOng off the Niece of
Wales's debts were 'to 'bectitne available to the pro-
potitid *TIM- be no less a burden
upon the People.
Lord HOLLAND said, he should hardly hive
felt it necessary to address their Lordships, but for
whit bad fallen from some Noble Friends of his:
Their objection against the amendment was not to
the principle it atserted; but to the season in which
it was brought forward. But the time at which they
thought proper to press the question, coincided with
the hpirtion delivered by the Noble Lord at the head
of the Treasury, in the commencement of his speech.
It had been stated that the Address contained no
pledge to which any reasonable man could object.
That was perfectly true. It. was also true of the
ainendment; but it had been urged iii objection, that
this was nut the time to press such a subject forward.
The Noble Lord who spoke first in the debate,
seemed to think that he (Lord Holland) was bound
'in consistency to support the motion, because he had
said that he would not object to a general Address,
without hearing the intentions of tee Government
Stated. But he was prepared to show that the state.
tent of those intentions materially attend the case,
for the statement disclosed the principle of the plan
upon which Government proposed to act, and to which
he felt it his duty to object. If the Address was
proposed alone he should hare given it nu opposition,
but accompanied as it was with the statement of the
Noble Lord, he thought that in cen•lour to the
Crown any man who objected to the plan was bound
not to let the Address go up to the Throne, without
stating the principles that modified his roncue rence.—
The amendment was not the mere repetition of an
unnecessary treks's. When those w hts asked the
Heise to concur in • ittse Address, explained the des
tails in such a way ai dust prepare them to expect
.an addition to the burdens of the People it was
better to state their objection in the first instance,
than to shield themielves afterwards under the
particular provisions with which they were ac-
quainted before. The Noble Earl who introduced
the subject had divided it into three distinct heads.—
The course of proceeding, the intentions which he
once had, and the intent ous to which he had since
mitered them, without any change in his own opi-
nions. As to the course of proiseeding he should
not say any more, but he thought it not a little re-
markable that the speech of the Noble Earl was
rather directed to explain and boast the merits of his
original plan the., to develop that which kid been
substituted. Supposing then, least his in igiiial plan
was at any future period to be proposed, would it
not be more candid so to form the Address that the
Crown should not entertain soy hopes of its adoption.
—(llear!)—At the same time 'that he concurred in
the Amendment, he felt as strong an attachment to the
dignity and splendour of the Crown as any of thistle who
thougot themselves bound to resist it. He concurred
in much of the original Address, but was anxious
to show for what reason he agreed in some points,
and why he differed as to others. It was almost
unnecessary for him to avow his attachment to the
Family on the Throne. They were endeared to the
Country by the nature of the title on which they held
the Crown, a title founded in the attachment of the
People, and not upon those absurd doctrines, which,
though happily exploded in England, were lately
revised in other placei.-(ficar 1.) -He would also
admit that the marriages of the Members of that Family
were fit subjects for the congratulation of Parlia-
ment. He did not confine himself in this opinion to
approve only of such marriages as the present, con-
tracted with foreign Princesses; for, if they had
chosen to unite with Ladies of rank and character
in their own country, and were permitted by
law to do so, lie should look upon such al.
Lances as equally fit subjects of congratulation. Ile did not
know that he should be prevented (two saying so merely be-
cause there was an Act of Parliament against it. That Act was
an extraordinary inroad ui the Constitution of the country,
which, of course, uld have no objection to see repealed.
Ile would admit also, that additional provision should he made
on those occasions. and was happy to bear the Noble Lord say.
tont in making vetch „rov igloos lacy should he guided by general
prin. ipler, without any refer, lice to individuals, or to the po-
lities which they might have suppose ted. Even private character
if it was objectionable, should be excluded from any induence
on such decisions. lie knew of none for whom this plea was
neer** try to he male in the present instance. No Prince of the
House of Bemis% ick was eh rg -able with views con-
trary to the vt elfare of the Constitution in Church and S _ ate,
they were therefore snare in the allections of the People. Blot
while the Noble Lord disclaimed tor Wooed- the existence
of any political hies in such matters, be hoped he would give
others credit for the same fiberlily.-[:tear, hear!]-flee
Noble Lord had re,rrred to the large a.uopat voted on the
Marriage of the Duke of 1 ork. Ile would allow that any
foreigr possessions, that the produce of any German Princi-
palities, ought not to be takeu into account, but here he was
dune with admis-ions. When allowances were to he made
which could not he said to he in the nature of it debt, there
were two things to be considered hat it would he proper for
the one to have, and what it would be convenient tor the other
to give.-On recurring to the case of die Duke of It ork, they
would nod that the magnitude of the sum granted by Parlia-
ment w.,s owing in some respect to the great, ess of Prussia, tee
country with which he became connected by his marriage. Be-
sides, on looking to the situation of our 05511 country then and
bow, they would find ample cause for making route dillerence
in the provisions. Ihe People were now trampled down by
oppressive Statutes, unit their property was comumed Icy oppres-
sive taxes; iu short, there was every thing to woke them inure
parsimonious in 1818 than they were in li9l. The Noble Lord
said the Amendment war useless-he would say, if the Ameod-
meat was not agreed to, they would leave the cuuutry in sus-
' pease. The genniiie object of the Amendment was to guard the
House against cuncurtitig in any endeavour to iurrease the pub-
lic burdens. It was right to consider what was necesssary to
the dignity and spleildour of die Crown, but it was also right
to consider what sacrifices die People had already made for the
rmaintetance of that dignity and splendour. After dismissing
the sums required to inert the interest of the National Debt,
! and illtl6C which O err applicable to the civil, the military, the
naval, nod political establishments of the country, they would
1-find that the euorntotts SIM of one million of money was
appropriated yearly to the mere support of the splendour it
tile Ciown. -(dear, hear, hear !)-Ile remembered that whet
tar French Mvembly voted one inolionn-year to theirSoverelgill,l
they were ridiculed in England as having mistaken the nature
of our Civil List, by which they professed to be guided. That
wa. the case, for at that iime litany of the ;welter's connected
with the Civil Gioserioneut, and the Administration of Justice,
were ueludiski. in out Civil List. But now the money applicable
to maimain the spiv:4o.lr or the Monarchy, without reference
to any otter source to eNpetire, did amount to that sons. A
Noble Lord, allotting to the Estatlisraen; at winai.or,oo:..erted,
, that he had stood by tits Socerign in prosperity, and would not
desert tutu iu adversity. Ntehing had here proposed to Ore
filtinse-whlch.cailed fur such, a display of his fidelity. The ex-
pellees alluded to did not coetrinuie to the comforts of his
Majesty. Those who tosprived that they did, might still retain
their opinion, hot they must an impute to those who dilTered
front them, a well to a!iridg,-Si. monforis. Stich an accusation
• would be resisted atat tic:al-It 'night be said,

draw
migh
10
a toi

i‘aith"o4;id
4 soLderive a sudirient tin !role tharrood, but
it shoold rtfellected.titat at the time of the •Regeticy, sixty
thoseead poi Ms a.yearr oonstitetted the Privy Puree. It %489
theearht ley solise,thot A! would be proper te-tlaager it froarthe
Illilstrimis Perwiii-whove affliction they all deplored, to him who
was inv. tied with the functions of Government. The 01=......9=.1

Wai11..11.416 aaar+.4...=
chargeable!, ilii.theNfondywhich could nisi be explained, butought
to be provileitfon. The liberaiity.of Parliament induced them to
leave Piewbole untouched,and to vote an addit iunal 60,C001.t0 the
Prince -Regent. Ai there was' asi- demasid on feet orlghent,
6000 i. for Ree hellfire years, with she exception of the charges
of Phyisitiaticthe sums so doe mast have been, in all probabi-
lity, sheee-di-eliserged. As to the 50.41101. for the pa-yasetit of
she itegent's.dehts it would appear from the way in a hick that
subject was treated, as if a vote mice *made was always to be
continued—as if, in fact, the doing it away when it was no
longer necereary. was a matter of favour to the. People. This
was well worth rhe• consideraticui 4 Parliame t. He was ;fur-
pri4ed that the Noble Earl (Liverpool) had said soliftttin
favour of the pieseitts osettsatie. kit had declared his tardier
project to have been defeated in some. other place. A great
man had once said, that there wait " something behind she
Throne greaser than the Throne Itself." it would appear. frolat
the Noble Cores admission, that there was something behind
the Speaker's Citair greater than the H of t oniastsns.—
Having beets thus frustrated in a litt'e Parliament of his awls.
he abandoned his plan, rejected as it had been by this sort uI
unauthoriied Government; and he stated that rejection to the
Parliament of the country at a reason why he did not persevere.
Af.rr briefly recapitulating his leading orgstavents. and dwelling
as swap letigth on toe absurd pageantry, by which the Crown
Nil, rather degraded titan sustained, he concluded with upress-
ing his determination to seaport the Amendnieist. as the*unrse
whit, most sincere towards the Illipariatis Family, stud
most beneficial to the colairy at large.—[hear, bear!)
The Eirl of LAUDERDALE. deseribed the
Amendment as absurd and nonsensical. It was
possible, he maintained, for Parliament to role an
increase ttf expence, without adding to the burdens
of the People. The proposition was, in fact, int•
passible to be undetstood, and for that mien he
Should oppose it.
Earl GROSVENOR was of opinion, that if the
Amendment was rejected, it would have a bad effect
on the minds of the People. The object of it was to
prevent an addition to their burdens, and that object
should not hideclined. He gave the Amendment his
decided assent.
The Amendment was then negatived without a .di.
• vision, the original Address was carried, and the
House adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
An Account was presented of the Total Weekly Amnon! of
Bank of England Notes and Post Bills is•ned by the Bank of
England between the:id March and 7th April, 1818 ; a; also
an Account of the Total Number of Sovereigns and Half Sove-
reigns, and Silver Co:n issued by the Bank in the course of 1817.
A Petition was presented trout Great laculouth against the
Lit Outies.
The LORD ADVOCATE presented a Peti.ion from the
Faculty of Advocates in Edinburgh, praying that the Bill for
the repeal of the Copyright Act might not pass into a law.
Sir It. PELL presented a Petition from a number of :Bann-
facturers in the towns of Great and Link Bolton, in the origit•
bOurlinod of Manchester, in favour of the Cotton I'ataory La•
bour Regulation Bill.
floe Cil.,ss Doty hill was read a second time.
ST. PANCRAS POOR BILL.
Mr. MELLISH mosed the second reading of the
St. Pancras Poor Bill.
The SOLICITOII•GENERAL said, the present
Bill was quite uncalled for and unnecessary. The
conduct of the Gentlemen who were vested by an
Act passed in 181)61 with the management of the
Poor in the parish:of St. Pancras, so far from being
improper was most esetisplary. These persons were,
from their property and their rank in life, the most
interested its the proper management and application
of the Poors' Rates. If the plan proposed by the
i.
present Bill were to be carried into effect, they
would have every year a repetition of the most dis-
graceful scenes w holt the Bill of 1805 put an end
to. The list election of Churchwardens lasted two
days, when the most disgraceful scenes took place.
He concluded with moving, as an Amendment, that
the Bill be read a second time this day six months.
Sir E. BRYIN; Eti contended, that the objections
which had been made to the present Bill were alto-
gether groundless. It was not the wish of those who
advocated this Bill, to gise 'soy thing like a univer-
sality of suffrage; on the contrary, they proposed a
high assessment to the Ponta' Rates as a-qualification
to vote. Was it to be endured, that those who bad
the raising and disposing of such immense sums as
the roots' Rates of the parish of St. Pancras amount-
ed to, should have the passing of their own accounts,
and be subject to no controul whatever from the
parish? The provisious of the Bill of 1805, gave a
certain number of individuals, who had the power of
filling up vacancies in their number, the complete
disposal of the 'mills of the parish, without being
subject to any controul whatever. The part of the
parish who supported the present Bill were mail of
them most respectable persons, and the attetsipt,
therefore, to throw upon them the odium of being
supporters of Democracy and Universal Suffrage was
most reprehensible.
Mr. P. 1100 RE subscribed to every word stated
by the lion. and Lerrned Gentleman who moved the
Amendment. It waswith the greatest struggle that the
tranquillity which now existed could be maintained
in the parish of SI. Pancras. He was well ac-
quainted with the affairs of that [wish, and he
could confidently say that the Cuticertis of no parish
cauld 1w in the hands of more honourable men.
Mr. BYNG opposed Ilse Bill, and stated that the
accounts were (vett to inspection.
Sit J. GRAHAM said, the. Bill of 1805 was al-
most an exact copy of the Mary-le-bootie Poor Bill.
The affairs of no pariah could be better managed.
The Bill of ISO 3 was imperiously called for. It
was a dizgrace to the neighbourboid of Lowlier to
see the state of that parish at every annual election.
Igo Gentleman, for some days before end during the
election, could pass along the road. He hid made
enquiries, and he wes convinced that all the most
respectable persons in the pariah were satisfied with
the present managetnent, as the most economical that
could be adopted.
Alter a few words from Mr. BENSON and Mr.
FORBES, which from the Boise in the House we
could not distinctly hear, the Amendment was car-
ried, anti the Bill was accerdingly thrown out.
COTTON FACTORIES.
Lord STANLEY presented a Petition from eerain indivi-
duals in Lanett-hire, who conducted a Cotton•spioning Enmity,
but whose statutes stud place of residence, front the noise which
prevailed iu the Ilmoie, we cnold not learn, cone:limo:: of
false statements with regard to the condition of Inc penplcen-
gaged in their Fi.cio•y, in the evidence taken by a C. tomitiee
of the Mohr, stud prayiag to he allowed to prudes.' evidence/
to disprove these tan.e.61,14,.. His Lordship reset at the:moor time
certificates trout brow Medical Gentlemen. fr which it rip-
peared, that out of 1112 persons engaged iu the Factor., the sick
amounted only so 12, a: ()that the r. tit:titling I,d Arre nen and
:olive, The Petitioners 'seabed to know if they could bring
their evidence forward in any vhape.
Ater the Penton, wa.% read. Lord STAN LEY moved that
ithould he laid oath? table, in order lobe referred to the Com-
mitter an the Comm Factory /teem Bill.
Sir ROBERT PELL raid a few words abnchi were inaeditile
la the lialicry,

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-444+1(4-irft-A-RRIA-GIA. . .
Lord CASTLIM Ii:AG II mined the near
p of di
, Day forgoing into a Committee for the cuusideratift
of the Royal Areis-a-ge. . : -- l -----
The Muse went into 'i Cighimitlgilellitia46.
House, and the Message was read.
tothe attendee a 4 use 144,4
doLyord*
callCA ST I.l4.tttAo. IVeitheid'lrit,,ftilt k gid.
jest, which was of the grOtoottiesporiance ON
country. He wit* sere the,.
.10 lest *mild feel
what had already been
_shosenl on Oda subject otg
forme( debate, that it was a poinfuialWty to this'
sants of the 'Crown; anat osal/ iiihrlibly atteatki
with greetditficulties, to chit the House 'totimerst;
iangements Of the Civil beat for supplying ink*
ciencies, and 0611'1004 wiles! :they had 104 tel
specific provisions. Indeed, beseaver groat wasegg
loyalty and attachment orthe Heine' and the
try to the illustrious Family nth the Throne'of t
realms, and the deiire to uphold. Uttar digaiWits
splendour, yet there was, he admitted, a pritteligg
et work in all free Constitution(, and partjaudyg
a Constitution such as our own, of jealousy eiihnu
sped to any thing that appeared to have a tendelet
to increase the power and inllueuce of the Croitao'
whether that jealousy might be well or 111-fouudeel
This imposed on those who had to propose additions(
burdens on the Public an arduous duty, though as
proposition might he in favour of the most valuable
interests of the station. This dory had become more
necessary, in a great degree, from a great change
which had taken place•in the operalionsof tbeCon.
stitotion of the country, by which 01l the indepeh-
dent sources of revenue which the Crown possessed
had been surrendered to 'the 'management of tit*
House. The Crown was, therefore, obliged by the
change to Paliament for any provisions the
were wanted. It was true, that formerly such ap; i
plications were not so usual, for there was not tbea
the same necessity for making them. The Crowe
formerly bed the means and power of making Jo*
grants to the Royal Family as the ',agency of ilia
case seemed to require, without being compelled le
come to come to Parliament. If the applicatioutte
the House had in modern times been of frequent re•
curreoce, they were nut to be attributed to any its.
providence of the reigning Family since their acces-
sion to the Throne, but to the measure which was
agreeahle to Patti: metal to take the sources of the
ancient Crown revenues into their own hands. oa.
that ground he thought Gentlemen would see tbst
Parliament should discharge its duty faithfully to
nerds the Crow ti, on a subject of sucb great import,
ance as the present. He trusted the House would
ogree with his opinion, that in voting on such a mes.
sure, they wets. net, while they considered the pale
lic interests, to he deterred by any sort of public
clamour from doing justice to the dignity and spiels.
dour of the Crown. In other views of the sots •
jest, he hoped to he excused for taking up the
time of the House a little longer. He cooed
not consider, that any thing that had already
occurred had yet so far foreclosed the subject
with any Member, so as to make him feel
himself pledged against the consideration of the pro-
position lie bad to offer—[Hear n—oe a matter so
important. It was for the interests of die Public to
see that the state of the Monarchy was well provided
fur, hut it was also necessary to See It proper provl.
sins, for a line of Princes in sac es•ion, and who well
horn and lived in the country. lie believed that the
Committee would feel, that at the meeting of Parfise
meet, after the calamity that hefel us by the lament-
ed death of the Princess Charlotte. no feeling wis
more strongly engraver% on on the minds of the Houle
and the Public, or more combined with that melan-
choly event, than the wish for a continuance of the •
line of the illustrious Family who had long worn the
Crown in this country. At the present time it was
true that there were many illustrious individuals liv-
ing, who were in due line of succession ; hut with
their decease the scents would close. Out of twelve
sons and daughters of the King, being seven Princes
and five Princesses, not one had a child to promise
a successor to the Throne. He might Observe, that
the ages of all the children of the Crown were so for
advanced in life as to render it fitting not to ocrasioe
any unnecessary delay in the case of their desiring If
marry. It could not he maintained, under all the
circumstances, that it was nut right to escite the
members of the Royal Family to a disposition to
marriage, if it was not contrary to their own viers/
of comfort and happiness; but then it was neeess..ary
that the state of mu-liege should be tendered con'
fortable to them. A single marriage might not lairitA
satisfactory expectations. His Royal Highness the
Prince Regent had shown no preference to any of tes
Royal Brothers, but had affectionately expressed les
wish that they should feet what was due to the ill.
terests of t!ie Crown cud of the country. Such ergo
the grounds local for a measure of so touch tweeted
importance. Gentlemen might look at the yr".
vi,ion made for she Princess Charlotte on her
marriage with Prince Leopold, though I cbeel
that might not he taken as a standard. A large Ile-
!lenient was not refused in that instance. These Nat
the ease of the nimble of the Duke of York *IN
the Prirscoss of Prussia, when the settlement et
made in 179.! ; but he scarcely felt it necessary to
call gentlemen to compare the difference between tim
et penres of the times then and now. The provieeo
thee was tint a standard for • provision flaw. Wilk
re.rct to toe arrangements for the Dut:e of Y-tk 'i
was. to be observed, he was at the that time trigs ly a,••
tittsguished by his propinquity to the Crown; but Li'
itos al Highness eill not then stand nearer, under 4.1
circumsturics-s, to the Throne, than en illustrious !,$:
dividual who had entered into a marriage contract 04 ,
at present. At the time of the Duke of Vetk... j
marriage, the Patter. of Wules Mai ursmarried44.7,:•
thinly, hut lie rent under 21) years ia.age. The irtO.;
•i
vision for the Duke of York was iedepeetleitt ‘..,,,.
3,0001. a year in his military capacity-, which k. 1,7•
not know ought to he taken into calcuktiost.....Wn°
this it made up 40,0001, a-year: Now, Daus voroststift- *
the Prince Regent had lost his daughter, ate. tee
Duke and Duchess of York had no chiiiireir. ..'
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treble that the Duke of Clarence aright come iato the
the line of succession. All the circumstances of ea-
penditere increased during 25 yeare ought. to be
taken into consideration. What income one of the
reincetmight receive out of this klaigdben, was not
a 0.00 for Calculation on this question. It ap-.
paired to Government fair to place the Duke of
Clarence nn w on the same footing as the Duke of York.
was plated 25 years back. In what was expedient
to do to provide for the junior Royal Brothers, whose
prospects' were not so immediate, it was thought
right to prittmee an inferior provision to that for
the Desks of Clarence. No consideration would have
induced Ministers to propose unnecessary provisions.
lie could not have given satisfactory information to
thewHouve till he had an opportunity of making ea-
plantlittris of. the reasons on which he intended to
move the addition of 12,0001. a year to the provisions
of 18;0001. a year, in order' to make op 30,0001. per
annom, The statement of the Hon. Gentleman last
night (Mr. Tierney), as to amounts, was correct. He
was sure the House must feel, that it was obvious.
that when a Prince formed a matrimonial alliance
with a 'foreign Princes's, great additional eipeticer
Must necessarily be incored by alt rations in his
establishment, besides fa contingency of having a
family. The Ducheta of York in the arrangements
on her marriage had 4,0001. a year for pill-money,
in circumstances different from the present, when the
provisions were wanted for Princes entering into mar-
riage connections, with the view of having a family.
If they married, it was fitting that they should live
in the country, in the scale in which they were Irani,
and to which Providence had devilled them.—[Hear,
woold put it to the House whether the
encrease of income was' not owing to the necessary
enervate of expenditure. He trusted that Gentle.
men could feel no astonishment at proposals to aug-
ment the revenues of the Royal Family, which could
not be considered as such additional burdens, when
it was recollected that the ancient resources of the
Crown were taken away. lie would fairly pot the
point to all, in and nut of the House, notwith.
cand;ng the prejudices that he knew were excited
against this measure.—(Year, hear, hear!)—He
woad put it to the feelings of the Howse, com.
paring the circumstances with those of the Doke and
Duchess of York, whether in reality 80001. a year
addition was more than necessary. The income of
the Duke and Duchess of York afforded some criterion
to judge of the propriety of the principle of the mea-
sure. The Duke of Gloucester, being nephew of the
King, was not in the same situation as the King'ssoos,
and the Princess Mary had en income of her own.—
Orr the Princess Charlotte Parliament settled 60,0001.
a year. The Duke of York had thirty-seven
thousand pounds a year, besides his military employ-
ments.—The Duke and archess of Gloucester had
together 28,0001. a year, besides the Duke's emolu-
ments. It did not therefore appear to Ministers con-
sistent with their duty to the Crown to put the
King's own sons in a situation subordinate to his
Highness the Duke of Gloucester. Prince Leopold,
after the lamented decease of the Princess Charlotte,
had 50,0001. a year. Ought the junior Princes to be
placed in a situation of inferiority ? The House, he
trusted, would feel the grounds this measure had
hitherto proceeded upon. They would feel, that if
it was thought desirable for the bolls of the King to
marry, they should be placed in a becomitig situa.
tion--not exactly like the Dake of York—but with
incomes of 30,0001. a year, to preserve their ratik
above the King's nephew. Ministers had flattered
themselves, that the House would go to a large
extent, without imposing too much additional burden.
They felt it a duty to provide properly for the illus•
trinus Individuals. The. marriage of the Dike rif
Cumberland was more of a private than of a pult;ic
character—[Herr, hear I] —hat the marriages pro.
posed were regarded as of a public character. If
they were of importance to the country, and if es-
penditure was much increased, was it tire dut)
of Ministers to propose these grams to Parliament,
to confer on them the stamp of deliberate and per-
manent distinction' The Duke of Cumberland.
however, received the full consent of the Crown to
his nuptials, and Ministers looked, therefore, for a
provision fur him like those (or hie Royal Brothers,
and for the same fur the Duke of Ketit if he -hoar,:
also marry. The sum would amount to 55.51:01. a
year immediately or eventually. It was proposed to
grant not of this 19,0001. a year for the Mike of
Clarence, on' account of his relative situation to.
wards the Throne, with an outfit In the same amount,
and outfits for the-oilier Royal Dukes equal to the
increase of their incomes. There was an ontfit to
the Princess Charlotte, in 1:315, of 50,00. n. The
practice of giving the outfits was the hest mode of
preventing the Princes from the illeonvenjt.tice of
getting into debt.—(llcar!)—For the first year,
then, the incomes would he 55.500 i. and fire outfits
to the same, making 111,0001. IVhen he came to
point out resources from which the money could be
drawn, from the Consulidated Fend or otherwise, it
would probably he said that the matter either way
wee just is broad as it was lona—(hear!),—and that
the facts would be the same under any circumstances.
There might be some truth in that assertion. It ap.
peered to his Majesty's Ministers, that these allow.
antes would not require the imposition of airy
new burdens upon the country, but would be
covered by resources which had either lately
fallen into the Consolidated Fund, or would shortly
fall in. The first resource to which 'he alluded
was 10.0001. of the balance that remained of the
60,0001. allowed for the expenditure of the late Prin.
Aess Charlotte on her marriage, after deducting the
50,0001. still continued to the Prince of Cobourg.—
The second was the annual sum of 50,0001. allowed
to his Reyal Highness the Prince Regent, for paying
off his debts. This fund would be relieved in the
course of two years, and could be made applicable
for the purpose of the proposed establishments, or
fur the general service of the country. He remain-
ed d':iberately convinced that he had acted rightly in
Ali Tiling his Royal Highness as be had done, and in
e"n"i"g to the proposal that had been now submitted.
II? hail cow stated the whole of the views which they
c•ilertsined, the reasons o,n their decision was
h`roted in filing the amount of the intended expendi-
ture, and the funds out of which it was' to arise.
Though convinced of the propriety of what they
had proposed, he would not pertinaciously adhere to
it arid as Parliament had manifested an indieposition
to ccncur in the amount, he woull not press his in-

4
f

..
~~

tended propoialtopon thesis.--Cllecirn—iifits did
not serrentivt, however, the opinion on which he
acted, :par did he think there war any thing in the
Went of the proposed provision which compro-
mised the public principle on which the Administra-
tion rested the justification condatt. (Hear!)
The Princes, it was true, had all of them some other
Wittes of income, beside the provision mode by
Parliamentary grants'; and it might be thought that
these additional revenues should he taken into cons

sideration, and deducted from the sous supplied by
Parliamentary liberality. This appeared to him to
he both an illiberal and unwise view of the subject.
Pitlidtheirt therefore should not sanction a principle ,
which .would have the tendency to produce an aver-
lion td the active duties of life, or the useful direc-
don'ts( thi4r abilities. Though placed at once be-,
yond the necessity of active effort., and debarred by
r'easoult of State from many employments to which
others could resort, there were still duties which
they might perform to the Public, without any danger
of their influence, and to these they ought to he en-
couraged by the common hopes of reaping the re-
wards of their activity. Others could increase their
livings by many ways on which they could not enter,
and, therefore, though they email accept of many
lucrative employments, they should dot he precluded
altogether from the hopes of bettering their incomes
by engaging in the performance of tech public set.
vices as they could execute consistently with their
title and elevated rank. Parliament could sot with
' propriety graduate the scale of Pibvision from any
consideration; of a personal nature, because it might
be invidious to examine minutely into personal quali-
ties, but merit should not he repressed by being de-
prived of the hopes of reaping its rewind in emolu-
ments
independent of Parliamentary !literality. If
any of the ttoy al Family therefore exercised employ-
merits at home or ahroad, from which they derived
en income which might he properly considered as
the ft uits of their activity, or the rewards of
their talent, they should tint be treated less liberally
by the House. He stated these considerations,
because he saw a disposition in some Members to
consider the emoluments derived from office as a
deduction of Parliamentary provision. The case of the
Duke of Cambridge had beet, partirulerly alluded
to, and an Hon. Member had moved for an account
of his income from his foreign employments. The
douse could not properly enquire into this subject,
or demand the production of the accounts moved for;
but as much misrepreaentation had gone abroad, he
did not regret that au opportunity was given him of
making an explanation which would show the un-
founded nature of those rumours, and demonstrate,

The additional allowance for the Dukenf Clarence
bring
That for the Duke of Kent
For the Duke of Cuouherthod .
For the Duke of Cambridge

that neither the tenure on which the Rosa' Duke
held his sit nation, nor the magnituih of the faint's-
menus which he derived from it, I nil him open to lhe
least imputation, or tended In .lisiutb the scaly of
provision which , Ministers proposed to Parliament
for the Royal Family. In the first place, the silos-
lion of Civil and Military Governor of (hoover was
of a temporary nature; and without pledong the
Royal Duke as to any plies that he might have in
view for the futore cour.o of bi. life, he miuh! sly
that he seemed to have no intantion of making it per •
manent. Ills Royal Highness undertook the other
at the request of his brrither, tha Prince- itegent, and
he might return to this couttieT io a short time. "With
a view to his return he hail refrained front altering
any of his domestic arrangements in Eioglatitl, and —ill
retained his house in this count'', ready for Lis ieLep.
tint'. In the second place, the situation na% riot only
temporary, but its emolument, were very incon-
siderable when compared with the mkreitresentations
of it which hail gone abroad. Ili• income, as Civil
and iililttary Governor, dill not exceed live thousand
pounds a )tar; and the whole extent of his emolu-
ments, front all contingencies, amounted only to
about sit thousand pounds. An employment of this
kind, tensperary in its WWI., and net extravagaut
iu iis• gains, he submitted to the Houle, should not
deprive his Royal liighonsa, either in his married or
.Inuaarfied state, from being placed on the scale of pro-
; .isiots which the other members of the Royal Family

*ere to tom. His Royal Highness the Duke of CI..

.
.

Fence was still less provided for by his employments.
lie had oul) 1,0001. a-jear as his half-pay. The Doke
of Kent enjoyed the emoluments of Governor of Gib-
rAltar, ■nd had likewise a regiment ; but his revenue
from these sources did not exceed 6,0001. a-year.—
Ile submitted, therefore,* that these sources of in-

come should not M taken into consideration, as a
deduction from the intended provision. If the House
fild so, they took away all motives to exertion.—
rhe Duke of Kent receivol hia provision later in life
by three years than soup of ;lig brothers, and sis
'ears later than others. The House should not say
to hitn, or the rest of the Royal Faintly, we will
grant you no provision, because, by the bounty of
the Crown, you are alre.ttly prod.-led for, and
whatever you earn by the esortion of your own
talents shall he deducted from the liberelky of

Parliament. Sr far from adopting that principle,
the reverse of it ought to he acted ui
Ile would leave nut of view, then, the indeppodent
incomes of the Dukes of Cambridge and Kent, and
would proceed to the detail of the propnr.•d
rust-
Sion. By the feelings manifested in the House %hen
the Prince Regent's Message was submitted to it,
Ministers had been induced to examine the matter
mare minutely, to see if soy deduction could be
made.--year, hcar:l—They hail gone iota the
minutest calculations and the strictest enquitiets.—
Ifni hod not depended on ihemarlves, but entered
into a painful investigation or the details with those
from whom they could expect the best information,
and the most important °pillion. 'Ube scale of a
private family was not one that could apply to that
of the Illustrious Persons. %Vith respect to the pro-
vision necessary for the Duke of Clarence, the result
of this examination was, that unless 10,0001. a year
I of additional allowance was granted, the proposed
establishment could not be coodected. Any grant
to a less amount would render it really impossible to
support his rank in the married state. Allow-
)0g this sum for his Royal nightie's the Make
of Clarence, from a regard to the closer pros?.
mity of his issue to the succession, it was pro-
',posed that the provision for the junior branches
of the family should bd less. He would propose
a Resolution for 60001. to the Duke of Kent,
60001. to the Duke of Cnralierlantl, and 60001. to
'the-Ditite of Cambritlgtr.--tHear *--With respect ro
pio.oxoney to the Royal Datilessesi with Whom these

• Nipt--z

. . SP-

RIP

TI4E STATE'SMAN:

Royal persons hart or might contract marri4ge
alliances, that *R4 a consideration to be settled be-
t %vitt hu.ihanti and wife. The Duchess of York on
her marriage, had. TPeeited 4,0001. a.year as WI
allowance for pin•money. Allowing that oh/rather
Royal Duchesses were to' receive sit oltowance of
3,0001. for this purpose, thin, the edeitional income
of the Duke of Clarence,' for his . fatally establishi
merit, would amount only to 7,0001., that of the
Doke of Kent to 3,0001.) tbitval the Doke of 42. em.
lowland to 3,0001., and that of the Doko of Cam.
bridge to 3,0001. annually. Hr thought, if ;any
thiag less than what he bed mentiotred were HY be
A/ranted, it would not ankvier the prupose. Rimy
addition at all was to be allowed, less coeht not be
stated. If the House wished the twtorite
place. they should not expose the lirso.-1103 of Ibe
Royal Family to the necossiry of cootractiog dettosi
or the Roy al succession to discredit -among toroth
oatiooe. Ministers proposed to do what Parliament
had dime in 1767, when the Dike of Gloucester, the
King's brot her, had bestowed oponitim an allowance of
24,0001 If the Duke of Gloucester then had 210042
and the present Doke 28,0001., it was not asking
lon much to ask 24,0001. for the junior branches of the
Royal Family, end 28,0001. for the Duke of Clarence.
He would now lone the /melon to the judgment of
e Committee, without trespassing farther upon its
patience. T' a jointures proposed for the Michels of
Clarence, in the event of the desth of the Doke, was
7,0001. a year, and that of the other Royal Duchessos,
6,W01. Ile hoped the propositions %filch be had
submitted to the House, combining is they did, in
his opinion, the honour of the Crown with the most
scrupulous regard to Public Economy, would meet
its approbation. The amount that had fallen in, or
that would soon fall in, to the Consolidated Find,
1 amounted to 60,0001.

. rel C.OOO
GAO
li,Atk)
6,000
%Youla make to all • -.T404
In the even of the Duke of tient'aierrosarryilet,'
the suns would be only st4/1"10
The Noble Lord, concleded by moving Resolutions
that 10.0001. he granted to his Majesty, for the per-
parse of providing an establishment for the Doke of
Clarence on his marriage; that 6,0001. be granted
for t' e Doke of Kent, &c. Upon the first Resolu-
tion being pot by the Chairman of the Committee,
Mr. C. BARCLAY expressed his sorprise end re-
gret that Ministers should propose any addition to
the burdens of the country, at a period when our
'evense was so deficient, compared to per expendi-
ture, that a loan was in contemplation to supply that
deficiency. This deficiency was notoriousty about
11 or 11 millions annually. The distress of the
People wec universal and undeniable; and it wits
knots n, that in consequence of that distress his Koval
• Mellows.; the Prince Rec Hit had voluntarily given
up fifty thourornd a year of his allowance. Was it
then becoming, under such circumstances. to pro-
pose nn augmentation of the public burdens? With
regard to the N.,bie Lord's reference to the grnot to
the Di.ke of Yotk upon his martiage, it would be
recollected that at that time our finance; were in a
flourtsning state. The Honnurable Meuther ask' d
oh.ther, if the Doke of Clarence should have no
issue, it was meant to propose a ((Whet. addition to
the allowance of the other Ponces who mig;:t be
married? lie was as willing as any man to support
the splendour of the Royal Family ; but the ques-
tion was whether, if any sum for an outfit were
granted to the Duke ref Clarence, that slim, instead
of being appropriated to the support of Royal aplen.
door, would not rather he applied to the psyment of
previous debts? Were he to be influenced try the con.
sid•ration of private virtues, Ile should cettaitily be
willing to vote for any grant to the Duke of Kent ;
bat from what the Noble Lord had ststed, he felt
that no addition was 'necessary to That Ptince's re-
venue. If, indeed, the other 'Nimes had pursued
the same system as the Illustrious Personage alluded
to for the discharge of their debts, more would he
done to maintain the proper character of the Royal
Family, than could be expected to afire from the
adoption of the present proposition. He did not
mean to propose any direct negative upon the mo-
tion before the Committee, but he felt it his duty to
call upon Gerrit/men to pause before they agreed to
that motion—to postpone the consideration of a mo-
tion for augmensirig the burdens of the country until
it was knoo II whether the country arns in a state to
meet that augmentation. Upon these grounds the
Honourable Member proposed that the further con-
sideration of the motion should be postponed until
this day week..
After t few words from Mr. BROGDEN upon
the prover order of proceeding,
Mr. BARCLAY raimml, That Ili. Chairman should
report proittP.s, sad ask lease In sit again.
Mr. PARNELL spoke in favour of the original
motion. • Re was armless to maintain the splendour
and dignity of the Royal FaMily; and, upon a ease
/If 1 ilii nature, Siren:Ali deprecated any diacession es
to the ',enigmal character of the Illustrious Persoo.
ay. alliited to.
Mr. PROTHEROE congratulated the House on
the effect of the virtuous opposition which had been
made to this measure, in reducing the original tool
proposed to be celled for. To the just causes of
grief for the death of the Princess Charlotte of Co.
bourg, many ',Evvoia had added apprehensions of the
failure of the Royal line of Brunswick. But a cause
of grief was now forced upon the public mind which
had not been anticipated. Pensions and grants to
foreigners were called for, in consequence of that
unfortunate event. To foreign alliances he had no
objection, but he hoped they were entered into with-
out mercenary views, and that they would he pro-
ductive of happiness without burdening the 04ti•in.
In loyalty he would yield to no man; but he held it
to be not only consistent with loyalty, bat e•senti,l
to its stability, to speak the language of truth. Dirt
Ministers speak the langskage of truth to their itoyal
Master when this measure was first thought of 2
DA they tell him that this was Hot the time to increase
the burdens of the People ? Ile had presented many
Petitions for a radical Reform of that House. H.
had told the Petitioners that she consequence of
'granting the prayer of their Petitions would be a re-
volution : but the cousequeoce of increasing our bur-
dens beyond the possibility of supporting them,
would) he contended, be equally revolutionary. Ile

I .•

MI

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111111

• ~---~

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'
,

coneratuleted the Bode, on the opportunity they
now had of giving the lie to the charge so often
brought against them, that the interests of the Nee.
pie had less weight with them than the intleence of
the Crown. We werteow for three yells in peace
with all the world, yet our Oxpeaces were beyond •
oat-resources; and, in thaface oft this we still worst
on increasing o'er burden,. (fever there wee a Tole
of that ileum in perfect euiso t with public feellng‘
it was thi, vivre which had rejer•ed the opplicetioto for
an additional allowance to tte Deke of Cerebeeleatik
—[hear, • hour !]--He should therefore vote spinet
the proposed Resolution.
Mr; GURNEY ascribed the present Opplicatios
to. the ettecto of the Meerfe,ze Act. By st ell' the
descendants of the Princess Sepl.i), et leas, •all thb
descendants of George II or e. precluded from. ist.:
termarrisge kith the great falsities of Enteand. The
may riso.on tar such an eneeeeele was the preveoe
lion :of disputes, claims to.livellsercession, and of
ceiseepsent civil war. T tie :ciin *roe- of York and
Lancaster were the Wets of;* aithaeoull are. From
this Marriage Asst spreelaesled eeethe evils which now
excited asiiinsdvenien sod oressitives. The Mute!
taints Branches oftithe Royal 'Reeled.*
from any rlliwace with the .greilt Dukes,- Doris, and
Barons of England, coin forced into alilancets,wirla
week anti poor German (amities. The actesequeate
of such alliances was a consLessEapplicetion to Par.
liement for proyieinto to •fiipport a family In the
highest rank, without any independent resources.; •
Mr. 11. SUMNER deresuldd the ?destine. 4414
at Lord Live/pool's, against the imputatioos wbiek
Gentlemen oppsoite entleiroored to level at theme..
To such a class of men he should always consider it
an honour to Wang, notwithstesidlog the designs.
lion which the. lion. and Learned Gentleman (Me.
Broughin.) gave them, when he called them asclicke
The) did not, perhaps, possess in as high degree as
the non. and Learned Gentlemen, *lea he (Mr. ti.)
would call—.eking the eapeession from the same
source as the Learned Gentleman took the tem of
dirk, namely, from the Slang Dictientity—the gift
of the gab—(4 laugh from the Opposition)—but
they were Gentlemen, from their character and cots.
nections, best calculated to convey the genteel im•
pression of the country on any suejed shout to be
submitted to the notice of Parliament. In his jutip.
ment very material benefits might follow, though he
was aware he could not say an in the present in.
stance-. ( Hear, hear I)—from treetinga thus cnnsti.
toted. With respect to the particular proposition
before the Benne, he could. eat go to the extent
of the Noble Lord's re.tion—he could not consent
that the House should provide fur the Doke of
Clarence, on the ground of his being Presumptive
Heir to the Throne—a situation in which he did
not stand.—(hear, hear, hear 1) —lt was true that
his Royal liidusess the. Duke of York was married
and had no issue, but might not that Illustrines Per.
soilage, by the visitation of a family calamity, lose
his Lady, and in such an event; would not the ILlyal.
Duke have reasonable grounds, on a seemed! mar•
riage. to eemat.d bine pieced in a sitorion
to teat in whirls the Prince of Sese.Cebrare was
placed by Parliament ? Under such circurnatatices,
could Parli.oneto reuse en establict!ment suitable to
the station of the Royal Dake, after Loving 11-'oria
established the plecedent, in the case of FoltreW
Leopold? It oat impossible for him to sere@ le
the present demand for the Duke of Clarente. To
the estent of .26,0001. he was iii,posed to assent.
Bot before be granted e'en that, he would ask, was
the House its posses ion of the necessary intormae
lion to assure it, that such an increase in the pro.
vkion would be applied to uphold the plestdour and
dignity of too. Illustrious Persoriage. lie did think,
that before any increase was granted, the whole of
the circumstances ought to he berme l's, Ii nsent. In
considering the propriety den increase, the House was
bound to cousider what were the pvseilt allowances
of his Royal Highness. Indepeseletitly of his anneal
allowance of 18,0001. the Duke of Clarence re.
ceived 35001. by 'I r..asery warrauts,with 11001. half-
pay. Added to it i.t he was Ranger of Bushy Park,
tad a charming re•idence, with appendages of uo
less value than 30001. per annum. These things
should be fairly shed. Hot at all events, before
any increase of provision stag given, he contended,
that as the professed object of the present mealura
was to enable the Royal Duke to support a greater
splendour, it ought fits( to be ascertained that the
sum would be niatle aacilable to tic? put But,
if pubic report epoke truly, the Duke of Clarence
was greatly in debt. Thie.e debts amounted to be.
tweeett 7u and 80;0001. To talk. therefore of
10,0001. per annum, under such circumstances, fin
an iticies,e of at lewlour, went to Ore his Royal
Iligheess in a degraded rather then in an elevated
situatiou. lie feated it would he found, thrt the
House was rctually thowiug away the tui,noy. The
Noble Lord woo intro'!uced the proposition bad
statet:, that a liberal outfit was the hest antidote
against incurring debt. But if the debts were al•
ready incerred, the antidote would be itittiteratige.--•
With respect to the junior Members of the Royal
Feudist, be would have no objection to a regulaleci
grant on their Marriage. Much to the o .our of
his Royal llighness the Duke of kept, he had made
every sacrifice to renege himself from the pressure
of hm debts.— Grits of hear, hear !].— I:1 two years,
it was stated. that illustrious Personege would be
wholly free from every ineurehrance.—Eficer 11--
If at that period any alliance was in contemplatko,
to an increased allowance he could not object. He
was ready to admit, that if the state of the Country
would permit it, 30,0001. should he the allowatme of
the Royal Dukes on their marriage ;' but if the pubw
tic ttecessiity interposed, the Royal Dukes, in come
mon with every other description in the country,
must eield to the pressure of the 6611,4., [Hear,
hear I.] —When he spoke of his Royal Highness the
Duke of Cambridge, it was impossiblinot to 3e im.
preyed with the uniform teneur of lis conduct--
f Hear, hear !] —and particularly with she manner
in
which he had •voi•t.ii the incurring ef any debts.--
indeed his revered and Itoyei Father had truly said
Of him some 'ears ago,, in the language of Eton
School, with nisi 1. his Majesty, from a teeing of
protection, was fa.oiliaf, that tie had not tried° his
fret fault even then. Any increase of provision to.
that Illustrious Personage cored alone he applied to
sustain the due splendour of his station. With re.
vied to the Duke of Cumberlasid, the question has
been long ago settled. The various divisive' on Ella