The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-06-15 00:00:00

-4 they therefore,
—What
His Majesty b-
a Message MPG

arm the Astborities with airditioual, ceerrive pewee.
To thou measures their Lordship's reluctant consent
was 'obtained. StilViiiiiveve'r, the evils-net only ems-
tinned, but increased. They required the Ministeri to
institute inquiries, to ascertain whether Wawa reotetliet
could not be supplied. But they were met with the re-
quest not to press the Government now; the Government
were contemplating what could be dose —Contempla-
ting !—Yes, they had been contemplating throughout
the last twenty-two years. Perhaps, in time, they 'night
come to an end of their contemplations; hot whole they
were contemplating, their Lordships must recollect that
the people of Ireland were snfering. The Noble Earl
had heretofore held out hopes that the Government would
do something. His Lordship intimated mamma when a
Noble Duke (Devonshire) presented some petitions;
hut he (Lord 11.) told that Noble Duke that he knew
the Noble Earl too well to calculate on any thing being
done. He said, at the time, that he hail his doubts,;
and he had his doubts too. Bet he felt justified in
having doubts, because he had viewed the career of the
Noble Earl. He had heard the Earl declare, that he
would instal no conceesinn which placed the power of
the sword in the hands of the Roman Catholics; and he
had seen him agree to a bill for admitting those persons
into the Navy. He bail remarked his varyingoponion on
the subject of the currency. He had commenced the
Session with declaring that the taxes could not be re-
duced, and the government afterwards consented to the
redurtien of several millions ; and all these things bail
been dune in an awful manner that he would not
attempt to describe. He (Lord 11.) therefore now
told their Lordships, that they bad better niqttrust
to the No. le Earl. He knew, from long expinience,
that whenever the fatal and accursed subject of Ire-
lend was mentioned, that the Miniature were stated to
he considering or contemplating some points important
to the interests of Ireland ; and he also knew, from like
long experience, that whatever was promised, nothing
was done. With such impressions on his mind. hit nailed
on their Lordships to support the motion. As to the
proposed Bill, on the subject of tithes, as it was not to
tweof compulsory operation, it was not worth one half-
pe iny. Ile Ilowevir, was persuaded. that the only way
in which the Church in Ireland could be supported, was
by introducing snelo just laws as should prevent two•
thirds of the population from feeling interested in the
.ohversion of such Clourch.—(llear hear !) He consi-
dered that they were bound to pledge themselves to insti-
tute inquiry.
Strangers were ordered to witdraw. A division then
took place. The numbers were,
Contents 33 Proxies 43 00
Non-Contents 88 Proxies 41 108
Majority against the motion 48
Adjourned at half-past Eleven o'clock.

HOUSE OF OF COMMONS.—Faivar. Jews 14.

MISCELLANSOIIII.
Mr. WARRE presented a petition from Taunton,
againt the Licensing Bill—Referred to the Committee
on the said Bill.
Mr. DENISON presented a petition from two indivi-
duals who exercised the trade of Tanners, in the County
of Surrey, representing that they had discovered an ad-
vantageous mode of dressing hides, and praying
for encostragensent.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. DALY gave notice, that on Wednesday next he
should bring forward a motion respecting the present
Tithe System of Ireland.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR presented a petition from the Go-
vernor and Company of the Chelsea Water Works, pray-
ing for compensation in consequence of the injury,
which they alleged, would be done to their property
ter the London Bridge Water Works Compaisy..-1,
Ordered to be referred to the Committee on the said
Bill.
Doyle's Divorce Bill was ordered to be committed:
and st was ordered that all notices in the progress of
the Bill necessary to he don Lady Doyle, should be
served on her Lads ship's Agent.
Mr. COKE presented a petition from certain Land.
owners of Norfolk, coMplaioingof Agricultural Distress,
and praying for Parliamentary Reform.—Ordered to lie
on she table.
Sir It. WILSON presented a petition from a Mr.
Lewis, confined in °Ahern Jail under sentence of the
Court of King's Bench, for a libel, and for a penalty of
GAL indicted upon him for selling roasted grate, which
was stated to be a fraudulent imitation of coffee. This
the petitioner denied; and he referred to the opinion of
the late Chief Baron 31•Dunald, to prove that thnitelling
of this grain was no fraud upon the revenue.
The Petition, after a few words from the CHANCItIe
Loa of the EXCHEQUER, was ordered to lie on the
table.
Gen. GASCOYNE &shed to ask the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether he iatendad to persevere io hie listen.
lion of retaining the remnant of the Salt Tax.
31r. H. SUMNER wished also to know whether the
Leather Tax would certainly be repealed. It was of con.
sequence to those concerned in the trade to be distinctly
informed on the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the
with respect to the Salt Tax be introdtd to props
many resolutions, in alteration of those alread
agreed to by the house. The lutornal Tax,
had already been said, would be reduced to L. The otlje
duties he proposed should be continued until 145,
, the public and the house might are the effect of the pre,
sent alteration. Witt' respect to the export salt, be pro
posed to extend the duty free allowance to Ireland. li!
proposed also that Ireland should be allowed to manu-
facture nit, without payment of any duty. The last oh-
;motions would apply to S.mtland, to tittle's it was also
proposed to extend those allowances. Should his plan
meet the approbation of the house, he intended to perse.
egre in his promise to take off the Leather Tax. But, he
des .satisfiestethat the remission of taxation could not be
citried any feither.
Mr: said, the explanation of the Right
thrs. attdl. did not satisfy him: be therefore trusted that
the Right Goa. (lent. would consent to the discussion of
the measure on Monday.
After a few words from Colonel Davies, the ChanceV
lrr of the Exchequer, sad Mr. D. Gilbert, the conversa-
tion dropped.
KENTISH PETITION.

Mr. HON YWOOD lose to present a Petition, agreed
t. at the late meeting of the County of Kent. It bad
been agreed to at one of the most numerous and respect-
able meetings ewer held in the county. The subjects it
witched won were the digeea?, of Agticulture, Parli•-
abcotary Reform, and it sic, called for a reduction of
the National Debt. lie recretted the introduction of
the last passage; but be had no doubt it would have
been rendered uunrcessary, had Moister' adopted an
.-conontioal practise of expenditure. The rest of the Pe-
titiou had his entire support.
Toe Petition MnS Then rend, and on the question,
that it should lie un tbe table.
Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL sakl, he agreed in
tl e numbers and respeetability of dm Meeting. His
=U•,. 1 riend 11:441 atinaitt(d that the most objectionable
p r of the Peti.imynet With hi* eveohetion; and he
Awl ewe ibought Ii proper to, state, Om circumstances
'brought Which it ba.l 'found its way into the Petition.—
Ine H fins tad beenAilled the itistanee of the '

Distress was not so snuck the sob-
Partiatneutary Returns. Me differei
in their opinioulso this subject ; but
AWN; a fair difference of opinials.—
, Petition had been agreed to, a person,
4lrbpot he suliOnsell be sattit gall a gentleman, fur be said
be was a freeholder of the county, proposed that pert of
lhe Petition about the National Debi, and sugeessted it
4S a Rider to the Petition. A pans, ensaed, we its be-
ing proposed, and at length the Alotion was seconded.
It was opposed by a Noble Earl, who so doubt consi-
dered the character and conduct of Cobhett, the pro
poser, as worthy of the reprobation of every honest
nom. Had Isis llou. Friend joined at the Meeting in
the disapprobation. be had no doubt this disgraceful mo-
tion would not have been adopted. He (Sir Edward)
had 'eked what was proposed by the Polities; whether
it was a change of turn or a change of measures •?. hat
no'brie gave him a satisfactory answer, receipt Uubhelt.
who 'so ,Ily said, that its object was the reduction of the
National Debt. He lung be peraiitted to say, that the
riga Whig I,ailers would have dune better to give apt
&IN Petition altogether, tban adopt it whit such a pre-;
I posaL .He e laded by protesting in the name of the
I coning against toe id-4 that that suggestion contained
the sentiments of the great body of the Freehlders.
- Mr. HONYWOOD admitted that the Meeting on
&kited with the Whig leaders ; bat it was attended
lir ibe most rrspert.sble individuals of the county, On
were of no party. Hr repeated that he disapproved
of that part of the Petition which related to the Na-
tional Debt.
Lord JOHN nussum, .ished the lion. Baronet bad
taken the sense of the meeting. on this part of the ques-
tion; especially as lie thought it was against the °pi-
-111111 of the great holly of the Freeholders. Ile should
l WNW take she first opportunity of renewing his pro-
es the subject of Parliamentary Reform ; though
, was not decided as to the thee when he sheuld
Je so, or the shape in which he should put it.—
Upon the objectioushle part of the Petition. he
I begged to say, that lie knew of no melt thing
as a just reflection of toe National Debt —(Cheers.)
--it was a subject el together unconnected with Pethid-
ine's:my Reform. 'fbe country was hound in honour to
discharge the debts co otr aeted liy the Parliament.N odd ng
bat the most overwhelming and admitted necessity could
,ioduce him to consent to a reduction by law of the Na-
dotal Debt; and he was satisfied there was no such nee
comity for it at present.
Sir E. KNATLIIIIII•Lis explained.
1 The Marquess of LON DON DERRY said, lie was not
in the House when the Petition was presented ; and lie
hoped its reception lied not Leen opposed ; for however
strongly he reprobated the paragraph in question, he
thought that did not afford • reason for rejecting the
;Petition. He only trusted that it would warn other
tiontitirs against being betrayed into such disgraceful
undue' as that which marked the proceedings at the
Kentish Meeting. He had beard with sattsfaction,
though not with surprise, the sentiments of the Noble
Lord opposite on the proposition of the Petitloners re-
specting the National Debt. He never supposed that the
Noble Lord would support so flagititious and degrading
a proposal ; but the'Noble Lord would forgive him for
remarking that he was sorry to bear the terms, "Con-
sent," and " overwhelming necessity" mentioned toge-
ther as applicable to such a suggestion. He thonglit
these terms when connected might be thought to count,-
niece an Wes of the necessity of the measure of spolia-
tion
.proposed by the Petitioners. He coneeietel that
the rights of the public creditor were es inviolable as
those of the family of the Noble Lord himself to their
large possessions.—(Hear. hear.)—The public creditor
had at good a right to his debt, as the Duke of Bedford
to his manors:,—(Cheers)—sod the necessity alluded to
by the Noble Lord, which would call for the re-
daction of one, must destroy the safety of the other.—
It must be a necessity which would make the measure in
question one of pure violence. With regard to that
paelkof the Petition which called for I arliamentary Re.
there could of coarse be no otetion to it; bche
the paragraph in this Pellicle, tespecting.lbs
Deb', would prove a warning to Parliamentsv?
Creasers, when they thought proper to attend meet-1
of this description. Whatever vices might he at-1
Wonted to the Parliamentary Representation, lie trusted
that house would be able to exercise a calm and dis-
passionate judgment of the subjects brought under its
consideration, and to distinguish between the fair and
legitimate complaints of the people. and the menacing
proposals of disbonourahle men.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the necessity to
which be alluded was that which would attend oar
being. invaded by a foreign enemy, and finding it unable
he raise the means of opposing him without a tempo-
rary suspension of the payments made to the national
creditor.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said he thought
there was no good, and there might be danger in anti-
cipating a necessity, and then raising an argument upon
;H. He was really sorry the Gentlemen of Kent had not
rdecuen themselves from the stain which was affixed to
them by this Petition.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he was willing to re-
tract the word " Consent," if the Noble Marquess
wished it. Ile really had no idea that the Noble Alai,
guess was such • critic in language.—(A laugh.)—He
believe/ the proposal contained in the Petition had
been hastily adopted by the Meeting, whose feelings
were carried away by the sufferings they experienced in
consequence of the measures of the Noble Marquess.
Mr. CALCRA FT said be was perfectly satisfied that
had the two Hon. Members for Kent expressed at the
Meeting the indignation they had expressed in that
House at the proposal in question, there would not have
bees foundso persons to support it. It was adopted, he
454 no doubt, in perfect ignorance of its effect, and prod
' legibly many who voted for it had not even heard it read.
;-ile was sure that had the consequence of the adoption a
.this proposal been pointed out and explained to the Pe-
titioners, the Gentleman who proposed it. who bad ne-
ver before attended • County Meeting of Kent, and who
' was not before known as a Freeholder of the County,
would have been desired to take his horse and take him-
self away. This proposal destroyed the value of the
rest of the Petition; tontigh lie deideil that it eonvet 4
she sentiments of the Freeholders of Kent, or indt.o of
the persons who attended that Meeting. Hail lie It 'sews
that such • proposition wonl.l have been submitted. be
should have attended the Meeting. In fact he at the
time in question was attending Lis fluty in that House.
end :ng to art a rs ;mai of the Salt Tax ; though
he now had moon to believe that he had better to bays
been at Maidstone. He thought it was the bound's"
duty of the Gentlemen who attended- the Meeting, is
explain and resist the proposal • and that it was no ea-
case for them that it came upon ;lime suddenly.
Sir E. KN.tTCHBULL explained.
Mr. JOHN swill expressed his conviction that
the respectable Gentlemen of the County of Kent would
never advisedly support such a proposition as that now
offered for the consideration of the House. Indeed, it
was to bins a matter of a mortification to Inol that
the Kentish freeholders were the first to petition fur a
violation of the public faith.
Mr. BROL'ti HAM said, the object of the Noble Mar-
quess. as well as that of the Hon. Baronet, appeared to
throw blame on the Whig Leaders.
Sir E. SNATCH BULL said woes the table, that he
had merely expressed his regret at the line of coaduct they
bad token. .
o “ asisi, w ul I take it as *wed-
BRO`L 7
Mr. itA t '
by the Hon. likkeeloie The Hon. Baronet regretted then.
Blame was generally conveyed in the most tatting tailu

TRE 87 ATZISMAN
wrote /40a to coeftdence le gem. peet4944losolea'us.
II apposed eves dories the presest Session? taill•OstacwWion es
1
had stereely left the shims of Ireland; when MD the Netting in
lame down dairies the rarliament to adopt *is wag on IF wiwil
esepeod the Constitution itflrelsod, end to nelreMs c'rer a Pe
_ _ ..... .. _ . _ ____-.. wheat he supposed I