The Statesman.
London, England, 1819-11-25 00:00:00

TITE KrATESMAN.

\!•jrsi)•a Miniaiers, ha•! foreseen the dang.r, and

thereinto endeirourod to prevent it, when he of .r.. 41
o der loinisetf to the Meeistretve ptinr to the
Martino There woe on doebt that sufficient enema-
__

eiration enntineally passed resiwriing the Meeting,
before it was holden, between the ill igiotales and the

Ministoro of itteC;oon, end rt the sh•ddingof

h1..0d wasoccording to the Learned Gentlemen, ;ale.
Is itfrihetehle to the neglect of dicey on (Import of the
Esteem., in not petting into emotion the terse of
the country. How did it happen that the Meeting
was tolerated? Wby was it not prevented? Why
were not its dangerous cons•gaences foreseen sod
prevented? Why were timed men first introduced
to execute s legal warrant, as it was so celled ? An
Don. Beat. on the floor (cc understand Irkm to al.
lode to Sir W. Do Crespigny) bed said in the pre.

ceding pert of the debate, 'bat there was so oetlet
allowed In themeltioede, when they acre requitint to
disperse, for bands of military blocked op the *sits.
1 *bile armed men were ordered to enter and to botcher

Rom within—lbis use the Neglect of defy of

which corplaint eras Salle, This wea the el
rrtion ■ole Its @treats a Ir4al warrant.—Bitib

the Le•rned Gentlemen therefore by their ergo-
meats proved that entleiry was necessary. Legal
redress, which use by them so smoothly offer.", was i
too ►sp•nsis., and who was to apho'd the falterers ;
in their &multi upon the jostle, of their errantry ?
The p•rsrns who had been shot at out of Meettbm's
window, sa ght ban; an action for an asfealt ; the
poor worsts, who w4l so mercilessly Wired, might,
if she could ideality the man, who acted so inhuman.
ly, spill) for simile r redres•. All the ereentents of
the Le.reed Gentleman bad shown the necessity for

corsairs, instead of for willing it. If any men
could identify a soldier who bad wounded him, It
was very well for him to apply to a Coen n 1 Law for
redress; bet what was that t• them? What was
that to the people of England, who beii,med that
the Congaretie° bad been violated ? !let ku this
showed the Dew system of Police which bad Woo it,-
stitated into this conntiti-Wals:lmed ffidmooth at its
head, as a French Lieutenant of Police seder the old
Government of that country. It was idle to talk of
Coroners' verdicts ; those who hail been injared, came
there to demand a verdict from the grand Inquest of
the nation, end from it the nation demanded justice
The sham argameot of the Learned Goodman. who
said that bet little confidence was placed by the
people in the Horse COMlllefle, was, therefore. of
little weight, for the Reese could not, in the view
of the crtentry refrain, notwithstanding its forma.
lion, from distributing impartial justice; and if it did
Wee@ to administer jostle*, as the nation desired,
*omit! net such conduct afford a coerce of ditcontent
The guidon, as it was properly understood, less an
act of accusation made against particular persons, so
thought the public at large. If the [loess world, an
ea parte statements, give a decision, the public world
sit in judgment on the horse, and even the vote of
the House, a vote which he treated would never lot
sanctioned, would not, although it were unanimous,
afford satisfaction to the people of England. The
Reformers said that the Haste required to he rep
Israel, according to the good geese of the Nation, bet
the advocates of the present system said, that all did
not depend epos theory, bat upon what was benefit iii
in placate. The boroughs did wimders for snm• per.
Irma, and eve', thing went 1111 in them view as well as
I could lie desired, but all were ni t satisfied with them.
A Learned Gentleman, •11.0 had spoken yeste,day,
hid said that there was iv, delay in proming redress;
hut he said 'here wv—Why tl.e postponement of
the 1..gue...5. al., the obstacles thrown in the way
.f toe ait 0104.11., astlrisdelsy was eneoutagool ? And
above all, •hy 444 %Pelee)* so teeth soughs fur ?
•••;•.•F molls., sod ,it designs requited darkness.
Wns Old e C..iellre potted an far as to threaten
p..ranns, w h.. were taking notes of the proceedings
nl that Coen of Isobar, which he entl.avnered to
have liana. treed Win a politely room ? Ibis wes the
delay ; henry i• was that ea intrei.tipti.in was
*sty to aviary the public. The Coert of King's
Notch had notlered some proteedirms, but a gory
proof of the tiolficell which intervened in the per.
salt of justice was there obvious. The multitude at
Manchester had been cooped op for slaughter by the
military ; so stated the lion. Baronet ; loot this
statement WAS denied by she Getoleintio opp sit..—
This less the feet.—[Na, from the Ministerial
llenches ]—" I soy, ,yes : sod elm:, • ramie., about
the facts, let the case be proved at the ha r."— [Cheers.]
Wl.y should not en investigation be instituted? I
its f t.q•ify sea not granted, did it not prove that
the facts ilemonstramol the tooth of the dew', ? The
right of meeting coeld not be denied to Englishmea,
bet the Learned Gentleman who had spoken last
night, raid, that each Meeting breams illegal shoe
it coil.! not be easily cootroulled by the civil ;tower.
When Petitions had been presented to the Roue
for Reform sefbciertt to fill the table, yes, eves
to fill the Haas., signed by small numbers of per-
sons, frum 10 to 20, sod from parishes in all parts
of the kingdom, It was theit said that those
petitions were not espressive of the &sites of the
people, because they had not been signed by mare.
The people, thereinto, felt desirous of proving that
they impressed their feelings; they felt &giros. of
showing their force, and then their actions were re-
probated as deserting of punishment. Oh! how
wonderful was the privilege of Englishmen I how
glorious their liberty ! They who coel.l not assem-
ble to the number of three in a parish, because there
was net in it more than too constattlos.—(!leer,
hear! end laughter )—The people were said in be
traitsieg. Ile admitted the fact. RA how long had
they persevered in apply ism fur 'rebels, before the sys-
tem of training was attempted to be put Into faecal-
Oen ? Their 'devisees required a remedy, and to
whom were they to apply if they were refused by the
floes, of Parliemewr ? The corruption of the boroughs
was minifratond its consequences Uri.. appalling.
Ile would contrast two cages: the Noble Lord oppo-
site had been detected in bribery, by smelting the 10-
111sience of the Crown for the worn of certain per-
, soots ; and it was notorious that the Noble bred did
nothing more than carry Off the system parsead by
' predecessors in office, yet he sat is the !louse with all
I his Noshing II a thick upon him, while another
person, for *sly giving 51. each to some persons in a
, borough, was sentenced to imprisooment for two
yeses, and to the psyment of the penalty of 10.04,01.
Sir fillessieh Lopes was pure as the snow in comp.-
; 'risme with the noble Lord: the fxmrr merely mita-

woof oil In weer• the retern in his Individual cep•tity.
while ti. litter •a•rt•J ell the influence of th•

- .
Crown for the seine improper purpose. The N .hl.•
Lord Welt, indeed, hove deserved to be impeached
for serh conduct; bet when the chore was to b..
estebliyhed, let the person, who considered hint guilt
less, throe the first stow.. Ile ...veld not he the
person.—(liestr, Leer! front the l'rerseary Bench.)
—The systems which the. sacrificed a Iles., while the
I'nester was suffered to revel In the seenedescrlption of

abuse, was ernes hypocrisy. These were but few of
the people favourable to treasonable practices, but the
system could not continue, for the inhabitants of the
country were dissatisfied. Severity might be used to
repress dues, bet would be retaliated with redoubled
force. line long, therefore, was the system to last
Was it until the people should have been goaded
to madness ? Bet Reform was to rein Choisti•
tinily, as it was said by its sal des ; as far as
he could see, no such effect world follow.—
The country wee loyal, but it was a loyalty to the
Coostitalloo of King, Lords, and Commons. is
attachment to the institetione, the laws, aid audio.'
cities of their cnontry, none equalled
Ministers seemed determined as desperate measurers
because the people continued to be loyal, and theme
it was that some T y prints, at the lime of the
Smithfield Meeting, taunted the people with basing
permitted Mr. Harrison to be taken from them is
peace. It-fores was called hard names, althea/111U
nation desired it, and Universal Suffrage was said to
be a foolish bugbear, although as loomed a man 'sever
lived, Mr. Seldom. bad admitted its practicab.lity„--
The people woad be satisfied if the Hasse of Com-
onians was formed se es to produce the effect which K'
was intended to produce—the proper contrail of the
measures of the Crown. In practice, however, the
retreats of tt e .ry would be rejected, and in the mesl
diem seretity would be found. With regard to
I Christianity, there was no danger of its ettinction,
for it was a religion which taught charity, which
established liberty throughout the coontries its
which It was spread, end which, above ell others,'
admitted the great principle that all men were
equal. Severe measures for its seppo•t were tisl
dittoing', for who could canopy; belief ? The
Noble Lord bed threatened new infringement, I
on the Coostitetion ; and indeed. for the lest 25
years, the Parliament seldom met without some
iu-
fringument on our liberties, or without adding to the
hardens of the people. They would, no doubt, be,
invited to new a Property Tat ; but the people wets
deceived If they thought it would be easing them to Isy
hese, tales on the rich, who were their hankers, and
on whom they might draw for the reward of the!,
industry end talent. lie adverted to the disinis.all
of FAI I Fit •illism, which bad produced so much tarsl
prise and dissatiafaction throughout the country. He
could not agree with this Address, because it showed
en
compunction for the melancholy events et Mese
chester; and because the remedies to be proposed would
be fresh infringements on the liberties of the people.
There wee but one tree remedy, which was the gado*,
into enquiry en the settject.—LThe Roo. Baren't's
speech was followed by three successiee cheers.]
Mr. %V. WYNN opposed the amendment, and
contended that the lion. Baronet had adduct no
erguments to show that the Meeting was not illegal.
It was the visitors doctrine in this cowry, that if
large bodies assembled in arms, with a view to carry
au) particular point, that body was guilty of treason.
The who'll, of Mr Justice Foster mu decitive as to
its iliegelity. Ile laid it dean that the appearance
of sorts bodies in arms eat an intimidation of his Ma-
jeaty's subjects, and consuleuttly illegal. The llon.
Baronet had waked why the Magistrates, if they in-
terfered at all, did not interfere sooner? The
answer to that was plain—it wet because those ban-
ners and rircemstances of terror were not till then
displayed, which could justify their iuterference.—
lie be one of the last men in the coun-
try to infringe the liberty of the retire ; but if
liberty was abused, it must be ambled for the
moment. According to the new lectrine attempted
to be established, if Meetings were held every week,
for the professed object of changing the order of
secceasion I. the Crown, such meetings could not be
aoppressed RI illegal. If there was 'predict/rick case
of blame, he did nut deny that it might afford a it
ground of enquiry in that House; bet the patrol
principle was, that the Hoes* ought not to interfere
'seeps where the peruse or the cue was too great to
be drill with out of it. After some further observa-
tions, directed principally to justify the employment
of the Yeomanry, the Hon. Member concluded with
expressing his determiaatiou to vote artisan the amends
• •
sent.
Lard NUGF-NTeeplained.
Sir J. SCBILIGII I' said be should vote ugliest
the emenclinent, busese be thought enquiry could
be carried on with more effect in a Court of Law.
Ile thought it inipossible for the Hoes* to come to a
tree derision on the question, as they had net the
power to procure evidence of oath. He -.geld gladly
vote fur Psoliamentery Reform. because he believed
it would satisfy 19 out of 20 persons ie the Dation.
Mr. LITTLETON said he would vote against
the amendment, because he thoeght the question
proposed fur Parliamentary enquiry ought to be dis-
cussed in another place. He thought no general ob.
jection could be against Pulismentary entioiry. lle
agreed with the liouiserstge Mosher who last ad.
dressed the House, in his opinion of the Holies's.—
He hoped he would not he understood by this vote to
bestow general approbation on the conduct of Minis.
tens. Ile thoottlit the dismissal of Cold Filasilliato
was more calculated In alienate the affections of his
Majesty's subjects, than soy au of the Ministers for
many you..
Mr. CANNING said, though ahuse,el ea was the
eiljoisrunetio, he could nut hut cougratetai• the We,e
out the OCCA.lieln, as it could nut come to any determi
11410 reaulatinu isithoul itiss ren.st patient —They hail now heard the ilitr•rent opinions of ever)
class its that house iin the Address, the amendment,
end 1111.1111.1.•rii Mall. of the eoeutry. Ile cotall dot
comprehend Ilse reason or the ;inky which
the Gentlemen opposite to concur in Oh, 011.11.1.1
Address, and yet think it nec,ssary salack In is this
amendment. The drat duty to be performed ea, to
aoppieas the aim/Action which War non miaowed to
be 'weeding. The Geuther's niiirnrile slid hat
think the simple Address OW fficient In rapers
their duty -littioot she speratalion in the Anseati•
Meal The objects of this Addicts wets to