The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-03-11 00:00:00

THE IMPROVEMENT BILL

The MAYOR acknowledged the receipt of a memorial
signed by Mr. Case on the subject of the improvement bill.
It stated that at a meeting held at Messrs. Clay and Swift's
office, to take clauses 123 to 128 of the improvement bill into
consideration, it was resolved that the meeting viewed with
surprise the passing of clauses which would be injurious to
the manufattures generally, that the existing law for the sup-
pression of nuisances arising from smoke was sufficient, that
the meeting would oppose the enactment of such clauses, and
that they had appointed a committee for carrying their reso-
lutions into effect.
Mr. BIRKETT moved that the memorial be referred to :he
Finance Committee
Mr. GLAD

TONE said he had seen one or two of the gen-
tlemen who were present at the meeting where the memorial
was adopted. He understood their objection to the clauses
to be this—that they were extremely arbitrary in their na-
ture. (Hear, hear.) So much so that a common blacksmith
conld not work his chimney without coming under them
The

TOWN-CLERK entered into some explanation of the
clauses, and said he thought it would be desirable to have
the memorial referred to the Finance Committee to see whe-
ther any clauses could be framed which would not be oppres-
sive, and which at the same time would relieve the town from
the nuisances complained of:

Mr. H. LAWRENCE suggested that in addition to the
power of appeal to the recorder given to parties by this bill
there should be a similar power to the assizes.
Mr. PARKER expressed a hope that the memorial would
have due weight with the council.

MT. EARn believed that steam-engines could be made to
consume their own smoke. He was interested in a very large
steam-engine himself; and, if it were practicable, he hoped
they would be made to consume their own smoke.

Mr. S,:tNns thought the council ought to be careful not to
do anything to interfere with the commerce of the town, or
with large manufactories. _ _

Mr. YATES said the council appeared to be all agreed that
the clauses of the bill as drawn in London were objectiona-
ble, and that no injury should be done to the manufacturers
of Liverpool. He thought a committee should be appointed
to modify the clauses so as to meet the wishes of the manu-
facturers. The Liverpool and Harrington Company and the
Railway Company, with a laudable attention to the public,
had remedied the evil nuisance arising from the smoke of
their steam-engines--so that it appeared manifest that smoke
could be consumed so far as steam-engines were concerned.
(Hear.) . . . ..

The memorial was referred to the Finance Committee
PLEAsANT-STREET SCHOOL.

The MAYOR acknowledged the receipt of a letter signed
Francis Shuttleworth, in reference to the school established
in Pleasant-street. It stated that, according to the strict
terms of the lease, the committee were prevented from intro-
ducing any children but those of Irish parents, with a view
to increasing its efficiency, they hoped the council would ex-
tend the terms so as to enable them to introduce others, not
of Irish extraction.
Referred to the Finance Committee.

The MAYOR stated that he had received a memorial from
certain parties, inhabitants of Great George's Ward, in which
they expressed their regret at the late decision of the council
on te education question, and their surprise that the council
should have adopted a decision so much at variance with the
enlightened principles of the day. They concluded by pray-
ing the council to reconsider their decision. The Mayor
said it was numerously and respectably signed, and asked
whether he should read over the names.
Mr. BOLTON said it would be sufficient to have three or
four of them read.

The MAYOR then read the names of Langton, Johnson,
Boller, Bryden, Knight, Rogers, Murphy, Bruce, &c.
Mr. BOLTON said that, as an inhabitant of Great George's
Ward, he had been requested to support the views of the
memorialists, which he did with the greatest sincerity. He
moved that the memorial be referred to the Education Com-
mittee, with an instruction that the rules for conducting the
schools might be so modified that children of all denomina-
tions might partake of the advantages to which all were enti-
tled. He was induced to make this motion because the
chairman of the Dock Committee (Mr. Sands) had predicted
that the Catholic children would not leave the schools. As
this prediction had not been fulfilled, there was good ground
at present for reconsidering the question, and the memorial
afforded a fair opportunity for so doing.
Mr. SANDS denied that he had uttered any prediction of
the kind. He had, indeed, expressed a sincere hope and de-
sire that they would not leave ; and they would not have left
if the Roman Catholic clergy had not gone to the schools
and insisted on their withdrawing themselves.
Mr. HENRY LAWRENCE suggested that the word " in-
struction" in the motion should tie varied, as it was against
the standing orders to receive it in its present shape. He
had a strong wish that the schools should be so conducted as
to enable all parties to partake of their benefits.
Mr. JOHN Smut' suggested that the memorial should be
referred to the committee.

The TOWN-CLERK was of opinion that no instruction could
be moved without notice being given.
Mr. BOLTON consented to withdraw the word " instruc-
tion," and to move simply that the memorial be referred to
the education committee.
Mr. AIKIN seconded the motion.

Mr. BIRKETT moved, as an amendment, that it be laid on
the table.

Mr. PARKER seconded the amendment, which was shortly
after withdrawn.

Mr. ROBINSON said he should support the motion, think-
ing it but courtesy towards the petitioners to have their me-
morial referred.

Mr. Alderman EVANS supported the motion. He thought
was the duty of the Catholic clergy to have interfered ; that

their interference ought to have been foreseen by the council;
and that it ought not now to be mentioned as an act of im-
propriety on their parts, inasmuch as they had given notice
before-hand on the subject.
INIr. EARLE asked what the clergy of the established church
had done when the schools were originally established by the
reform council?

The MAYOR thought it was not desirable to enter upon
such a discussion at present.
Mr. I.LoYD had no objection to the memorial being refer-
red to the committee, as it did not pledge them to alter the
rules.

Mr. MOLYNEUX could have no objection to the memorial
being sent to the committee if any benefit were to be derived
from such a proceeding. He did not see the use of sending
it before the committee. (Hear.) It was, moreover, pre-
mature to say anything with regard to the proceedings in the
schools, as the committee had scarcely commenced working
them as set. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said that he meant to oppose the motion
that the memorial be referred to the Education Committee,
not from any want of respect towards the memorialists, but
his reason was that the schools were scarcely yet in the posi-
tion in which they were intended to be with regard to the
system of instruction. The Education Committee had only
just got their new masters, and at the present moment they
were utterly unable to speak confidently of how the system
might work. Under these circumstances, it appeared to him
that the council really were not in a position to deal with the
question. He had become a member of the Education
Committee most reluctantly, because he felt the great re-
sponsibility which it involved, and because its duties re-
quired time and attention which he could scarcely give, al-
though, with few exceptions, he had attended every meeting
of the committee. His own feeling with regard to this sub-
ject was this,—that if the system which it was proposed to
establish should not.meet the objects intended—if it should
not prove to he a comprehensive system—if they really found
that they had obstacles to deal with much more formidable
than in the first instance they were led to suppose, and which
prevented their carrying out that system—he, for one, as a
member of the Education Committee, should, at the proper
time, be ready to come before the council and say so ; but,
until that system had been fully and fairly tried, which he
was free to state had not yet been done, nor was it likely to
be so until three or six months from its commencement at
least should have expired, it did appear to him premature
for any body of men .to suggest a new course, and to attempt
to urge it on the Education Committee. As he had stated,
he had gone into the committee reluctantly ; but, as he had
gone there, his intention was to discharge his duty in the
best way he could ; and if he found the system was not as
comprehensive as it should be—if the schools were princi-
pally filled with children from schools attached to churches
which before were supported by the congreeations of those
churches, that would not meet his views. To a certain ex-
tent he should wish to know where those children were who
were before in the corporation schools. This was the view
that he took ; and if he could not see at least a portion of
those children instructed there, he should come to the con-
clusion that the schools, whatever his own private opinion
might be, were not the schools which the municipal law
authorised. With the expression of this opinion, he felt
that it was scarcely fair towards the Education Com-
mittee, and perhaps scarcely right, to force on them a
course different to that which they were pursuing. Let
them see first what the plan really was which they were en-
deavouring to establish. If that plan should fail then the
time would have come for them to make a change, and it
would be the duty of the Education Committee to come
boldly before the council and say so, because what they de-
sired
to effect was not what required to be concealed. The
more it could be seen, the more it was enquired into, the
better was the plan of educ3tion to be established likely to
be; but whilst he made these remarks with regard to the schools
attached to churches, one or two of which he believed were
about to be given up, it was only fair to state that, although he
conceived the corporation schools so filled would not meet
the object intended, yet there was this fact, that some of these
schools were formed at the period when the council com-
menced the late system, theiefore, to a certain extent, the
corporation were the natural schools for those children to go
to. But he said this—if they were only to take the children
of schools which before had been supported by individual
subscription, that that was not the object of the corporation
schools ; therefore, let the Education Committee try the sys-
tem which they had now in hand. He would say to the
council, " Let us carry it out for a certain period, long
enough to give us an opportunity of judging how far the sys-
tem will succeed." Having stated these reasons, he should
feel it his duty, without meaning any disrespect towards
those who had signed it, to oppose the memorial being re-
ferred to the Education Committee, because he wished to be
left free and unfettered to do what was right without the dic-
tation of any set of men. If he could not carry that out he
would come before the council and say so.
Mr. AliciN in support of the motion said he had not as yet
heard a word in the way of objection to the motion. On the
contrary, Mr. Gladstone acknowledged that the thing up to
the present moment had not met his expectations, and that
if the slime system went on, he would be at liberty to enter-
tain the question.
Mr. BIRKETT expressed his regret for having withdrawn
his amendment, and said he would not do so again.
Mr. SMITH said Mr. Mr Birkett would be a good boy the
next time. In the mean time Mr. Gladstone's amendment
had not been seconded.
Mr. CIIILTON then seconded it.
Mr. PARKER regretted very much that Mr. Gladstone bad
expressed the sentiments he had on the present occasion.
(Hear, hear.) He could but admire the tact of Mr. Aikin
in availing himself of the mode in which Mr. Gladstone had
expressed himself. But, as conservatives and as
,heir protestants,faith
they had one course to pursue. I (Hear, hear.)
was straightforward. Their duty was not to mark the results
of the measure at present, because it was premature ; but
sent to the council as they had been by the constituency of
Liverpool, their duty was to carry out the wishes of that
constituency upon the education question. Before the system
was allowed to have a fair trial, representations were made out-
side doors, and a hold was taken of a memorial, which had
been worded in a way different from what it ought to have
been worded. It called on the council to rescind what they had

been contending for on principle—namely, a sound scrip,
tural education For the poor of the town. It was preposter-
ous that any memorial of the sort should be received by the
council. He maintained that the conservative party were
acting on sound, constitutional, and protestant principles in
supporting the prescot system ; it was a question upon which
he would ever take his stand; and he hoped the memorial
would be ordered to lie on the table. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. SANDS denied that Mr. Gladstone ever stated that his
expectations had not been realised.

Mr. GLADSTONE explained. His meaning was this—At
present the Education Committee were not able to say what
would be the success of the system. That was what he in-
tended to say. Of its propriety his own opinion was un-
shaken, but how far it would succeed, so as to secure the
benefits of these Corporation Schools to all classes, as they
were intended, it v% as, of course, impossible for the Education
Committee to say. He certainly meant that if these schools
were fully attended—if there were only a hundred scho-
lars in one school, and a hundred in the other, it would then
become the duty of the Education Committee to attempt
some change that would make them so. It would not be
worth while to keep up such an establishment, and to pay the
expenses of masters, mistresses, monitors, and apprentices for
so small an object. The Education Committee wanted to
establish education upon a broad scale, and, as he I•ad said
before, what he intended to state was, that as they had only
just got their new masters, it was impossible to form an
opinion what the success of the system would be.
Mr. Alderman EVANS said he had never heard a speech in
the council the commencement of which gave him greater
satisfaction than the one he heard from Mr. Gladstone, who
had stated principles in a graphic manner. The crisis re-
ferred to by Mr. Gladstone had, however, arrived already, for
the catholic children were gone ; and who in the world say
that they would ever come back ?

Mr. .thtiowr said the sentiments expressed by Mr. Glad-
stone had done him very great honour. He thought the
Education Committee ought now to adopt a system that
would conciliate the catholics.
Mr. LLOYD thought the council would not be doing their
duty to the Education Committee if they interfered with the
system which was now in course of operation, by referring the
memorial.

Mr. SHAND contended that it was quite unnecessary to re-
fer the memorial to the committee, as they were already alive
to the question.

Mr. BOLTON then replied, after which the council divided,
when there appeared—
For the amendment....
Against it
Majority......
_ _

The amendment was consequently carried. The following
members voted in the divis►on :

For it—Messrs. Shand, Copeland, Barton, Blundell,
Sands, Rae, Aspinall, Toulmin, Wood, Birkett, Gladstone,
Proctor, Lloyd, Kilshaw, Parker, Jones. jun., A. Smith,
jun., Houghton, Nicol, Chilton, Molyneux, Crook, and the
Mayor.

Against it—Messrs. Thornhill, Preston, H. Holmes,
Mellor, Bolton, Aikin, Bright, Yates, Robinson, H. Law-
rence, J. Smith, Jordan, Mather, Bulley, Freme, Evans,
Barclay, Earle, Moon, and Turner.

ADDRESSES TO THE QUEEN, PRINCE ALBERT, AND THE

DUCHESS OF KENT.

Mr. LLoyn moved the adoption of the following congra-
tulatory addresses to the Queen, Prince Albert, and the
Duchess of Kent, on the birth of an heir apparent to the
throne of these realms :

" To Her Most Gracious Majesty Queen Victoria.
" The dutiful and loyal address of the Mayor, Aldermen,
_ and Burgesses of the borough of Liverpool.
_

"May it please your Majesty,—We, the mayor, aldermen,
and burgesses approach, with feelings of the most loyal at-
tachment to your Majesty's person, to offer our heartfelt
congratulations on the great and joyful event of the birth of
a prince, the heir apparent to the throne of this realm.
We pray the Almighty Ruler of Princes to preserve the
health of his royal highness, and to bestow on your Majesty
and your illustrious consort a long life of happiness and
prosperity ; and that He may enable your Majesty and your
royal consort to direct the education of the heir apparent,
and to witness matured in his mind those sound principles
which will make his reign a blessing to a free and loyal
people.
" And we pray that the present distress, which presses
heavily upon many of our fellow-subjects, may be of tempo-
rary duration ; and that Divine Providence may continue to
watch over your Majesty's subjects, and that they may grate-
fully appreciate the many blessings this most favoured coun-
try enjoys ; and that we may remain a dutiful and loyal peo-
ple, justly proud of the virtues which grace your Majesty's
person and government.
" Given under the common seal, the 9th of March,lB42.”

" To his Royal Highness Prince Albert, Duke of Saxe
Coburg and Gotha.

" The dutiful address of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses
of the borough of Liverpool.
" May it please your Royal Higness,—we, the mayor,
aldermen, and burgesses, beg to offer to your royal highness
our sincere congratulations on the great and happy event of
the birth of a son, heir apparent to the throne of this realm,
which has still more endeared your royal highness to a dutiful
and loyal people.
" We pray for the blessing of God on our infant prince,
and that it may please the Almighty to grant to her Majesty
and to your royal highness along, prosperous, and happy life,
and that both may see, in full maturity, the virtues of his
parents implanted in the heart of the heir apparent.—Given
under the common seal, the 9th of March, 1842."

" To Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent.
" The respectful address of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Bur-

gesses of the borough of Liverpool."'
" May it please your Royal tlighness,---we, the mayor,
aldermen, and burgesses, beg to be allowed to approach your
royal highness with the warmest and most heartfelt congra-
tulations on the jos'fui event of a birth of a prince, heir ap-
parent to her Majes4's throne.
" We pray that the Almighty protection may be extended
to the royal infant, and that he may grow up in health and
strength, the comfort and delight of your royal highness ;
that the lives of your daughter, our most gracious Majesty,
and her illustrious consort, may be spared for many years to
d that when it shall
bless a loyal and dutiful people ; anplease
the Almighty to call their son to the anxious cares of govern-
ment, the virtues of his royal parents may be found in him
adorning a reign of honour and prosperity, as the monarch
of this great empire.---Given under the common seal, 9th of
March, 1812."
The addresses were adopted.

PRIVATE 1111.1.5.
The TOWN-CLERK reported on the private bills of the
council with the view of obtaining. any directions thereon be-
fore going into committee of the Commons. He said he had
been advised that morning that their bills had all passed the
standing orders committee ; but up to the termination of the
Easter holidays the bills would be in the power of the council
for any amendments which might be considered advisable.
With reference to the clause regarding marine store dealers,
he proposed to add, that " nothing in the act should apply to
ship-chandlers and rope-makers."
Mr. PARKER asked what was the proposed fee with regard
to marine store dealers taking out licenses?
The TOWN-CLERK said it was any sum not exceeding 20s.
He thought the 20s. might be reduced to 10s., and that 2s.
6d. would probably be sufficient.
Mr. BIRKETT called attention to clauses respecting lorries,
and the building of houses with beams.
The TOWN-CLERK promised to consider the subjects with
Mr. Birkett.

Mr. LLOYD called attention to some clauses which refer to
the powers of the corporation as to the taking of property.
The TOWN-CLERK said it would be for the Finance Com-
mittee to alter the clauses in question if considered unjust.
The town-clerk then called attention to some alterations
which had been made in the interment clauses with the con-
sent of Rector Brooks, and entered at some length into a de-
scription of the alterations which had been made in the
clauses.

Mr. GLADSTONE said it was right that the public should
know that the alterations had been wade with the consent of
Mr. Rector Brooks.

Mr. LLOYD in allusion to the Borough Court Bill, said it
was much to be regretted that the clause had been withdrawn
which gave a power to this borough to arrest absconding
debtors. That part of the bill would have been an immense
boon to the country. When it was considered that this port
was the great outlet to America, and the facilities for escape
afforded by steam communication were so great, the council
ought to use every means to give the borough court the same
power in this respect that the superior courts had. Two
cases of this description had conic within his own knowledge
within the last fortnight. The parties had to send their affi-
davits to London, then to go before a judge, and then when
process was issued, strangely enough it had to go to Preston
(this being a county palatine) before it came to Liverpool,
consequently two or three days were lost whilst the debtor
could come by railway from Manchester just an hour or two
before the steamer sailed. He regretted this, and he should
be sorry if the price they were to pay for the bill, should be
to lose one half of the advantage that was to be got by the
certiorari clause. But Liverpool when going to such liberal
expense in providing accommodations for the Judges and the
professional gentlemen who attended the assizes here, ought
not to be treated exactly in the manner in which it was by
the officers of the court at Preston. They had not yet had
the condescension to bring any of their offices here, al-
though they took them to Lancaster, and at the foot of the
circular announcing the assizes it was always stated, " the
business of the public offices will be transacted at Preston
during the assizes." He named this to put the council in
possession of the fact, that although they might go to great
expence in building assize courts, after they had done so,
most of the business might be taken to Manchester or to the
office at Preston.

The TOWN CLERK also pointed out the inconveniences
and annoyances of the present system, and recommended
that petitions be presented for an amendment. It would be
better if the law for the detection of -absconding debtors
were applicable to all seaports.
Mr. Alderman EVANS would avail himself of this oppor-
tunity of expressing the satisfaction with which he had heard
Mr. Lloyd. He had to-day heard him put forward claims
for this town which he (Mr. Evans) had often, but in a more
feeble way, endeavoured to enforce. It was clear that in
this port we ought to have the most ample local jurisdiction.
With regard to the reason of our not having it, he believed
it arose from an unwarrantable timidity which had ever ex-
isted here. We heard, "if you attempt this you will have
the bar, and the bench, and everything against you ;" but it
had fallen within his experience in parliament, which, on
account of council and dock business was not small, to know
quite well the great influence which Liverpool had when Li-
verpool was represented in London by enlightened and ener-
getic deputations. It was quite notorious in both houses of
parliament that a Liverpool object, and above all a Liverpool
opposition, was one of the most formidable that ever came
before them. We had great weight and influence, and great
power if we had only the courage to exercise it. He recol-
lected going up with another gentleman as a deputation to
government to endeavour to preserve the patronage of the
council in, the officers of the jail, which the home department
were very kindly going to take away from the council who
paid all the expense of it; and he believed that at that time
even the Town-clerk himself was under the influence of
ap-
prehensious that they would get into a quarrel with the Home
Office. Why, the Home Office would have gone on with it
had it not been for the energetic efforts that were made, and
the deputation found all their requests yielded when they
applied all the requisite force. With regard to absconding
debtors he would mention a case of his own. A man was
indebted to him here, and he received a hint from another
quarter that he was going to leave, he did not know when.
When he asked his attorney about it, " Oh," said he, " You
cannot meddle with him without you get a judge's order."
" And how long will that take ?" " Ten days" was the
reply. Why, the man might have been half over Europe in
that time. This port was the outlet and inlet for the greatest
number of that description of people who were likely to com-
mit fraud upon others, and therefore we ought to possess in
ourselves all the powers necessary to get summary redress.
He hoped that Liverpool hereafter would assume a tone, and
follow it up, which he had no question would result in succesa
in having her rights and consequence admitted.
It was then understood that application should be made
to extend the power of arresting absconding debtors to all
sea ports.