The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-04-08 00:00:00

LEASES

The DEPUTY TOWN -C CERVI;ad a list of the leases which
had been granted within the past month, and on the motion
of Mr. G. 11. LAWRENCE they were confirmed.

IMPROVEMENT COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS.
The DEPUTY TOWN-CLERK read the proceedings, resolu-
tions, and reports of the Improvement Committee.
Mr. Alderman BARCLAY proposed, and Mr. H. HoLmas
seconded, a motion for their confirmation.
Mr. LLOYD, in allusion to a portion of the report con-
taining resolutions touching the improvement bill,said he had
formerly made some observations on tne clauses in the bill
empowering the council to appropriate property for improve-
ment. He objected to this power being given, because at the
very moment, perhaps, when a person had made a purchase
of property which he intended to use for business purposes,
this clause, which he had never dreamt of, might, without no-
tice, be brought into operation ; the corporation might dis-
cover that such property was in the line of an intended im-
provement, and he might be compelled to give it up. They
might only require a portion of such property, and might
leave an useless remainder on the hands of the proprietor.
They ought to be bound to take all the property if they took
any. In cases of new improvement bills which affected the
rights of possessors of property, the latter had ample notice,
beccause they were defined by the schedule, but by this bill
they might be taken without any notice whatever. He would
move that the matter be referred to the committee back again
for consideration.

Mr. JAMES LAWRENCE objected to the clauses in ques-
tion, because he thought they might be made instruments of
injustice. He thought it was dangerous to place such power
in the hands of the council. He seconded the motion.

Mr. EVANS objected to all observations tending it; imply
that injustice was more likely to govern the future acts of the
council than justice. He had every confidence in the council
of the present day, as well as in those which were to come,
and he would recommend that in all cases they should legis-
late boldly, and with the utmost confidence that all their suc-
cessors would act justly. _ _ _

Mr. BARCLAY said the subject had had full consideration in
the committee, and they came to the conclusion that it was
advisable to go for the clauses.
Mr. EARLE would be very sorry to see those clauses obli-
terated. He was confident that no injustice would be done,
and the clauses would prevent the repetition of great injustice
to the corporation, which had had to pay large sums of the
public money unjustly.
Mr. BIRKETT said Mr. Lloyd had alluded to the opposition
which these changes would probably occasion. It was better
to settle the matter here, and not to run the risk of opposition
hereafter. _ _ _ _

The TOWN-CLERK explained that the clauses applied only
to houses which had been burned or pulled down, or which
were intended to be re-built, and which were, at the same
time, in the line of a projected improvement. All these
matters were necessary before the clauses could come into
operation, and on the occasion of any dispute or difference
reference must be made to a jury.

11r. BUSH ELL said the Town-clerk's explanation was per-
fectly satisfactory.

The TOWN-CLERK said Lord Shaftesbury, who was the
great authority on matters of this nature, had expressed his
approval of the clause.

Mr. Lloyd's proposition was taken as an amendment on
the motion that the proceedings of the committee be con-
firmed.
The council divided on the amendment, when there appeared
For the amendment 9
Against it 35

The amendment was consequently lost. JJ
The following members voted on the division :
For the amendment—Messrs. Copeland, J. Lawrence,
Wood, Birkett, Procter, Lloyd, Parker, Bramley-Moore,
ancl Molyneux.

Against it—Messrs Shaw, Shand, Houghton, Thornhill,
Preston, H. Holmes, Mellor. J. Holmes, Bolton, Bright,
Rae, Priestley, Aspinall, Yates, Robinson, Cooper, Bushell,
Gladstone, Rigby, Kilshaw, Brassey, J. Smith, G. H. Law-
rence, Jordan, Platt, Holt, Bulley, Frerne, Evans, Barclay,
Earle, Nicol, Turner, and the Mayor.
WATCH RATE.
The TOWN-CLERK read the calculation of the new watch
rate. The average account for seven years for Liverpool was
£8,527 12s. Id. The Liverpool assessment is £952,321.
The rate, which upon this amount yields the sum nearest to
the average is 2d. and 7-47ths in the pound, which in the
assessment give £8,526 19s. 2d. The assessment for Kirk-
dale is £18,191. which at 2d. and 7-47ths gives £162185. 10d.
The assessment for Everton is £58,224, which yields
£521 6s. Bd. The assessment for West Derby is .£45,534,
which yields £-107 14s. 2d. The assessment for Toxteth
Park is £106,890, which yields £957 Is. Bd. Total,
£10,576 ls. Id.
Mr. JAMES LAWRENCE, seconded by Mr. PROCTER,
moved the above rate. Agreed to.
Mr. COOPER said, out of 7,000 rate-payers of Toxteth
Park, not more than 1100 or 1200 had paid. He would ask
the Town-clerk, if, after letting matters go in this way, it was
legal to levy for the arrears on those who were willing to pay ?
The TOWN-CLERK said they looked to the overseers of
the Door of the township, and might have levied on their
goods and chattels long since. They appeared to be suffering
through their improper misconduct in bygone years. He
could not take upon himself to direct them as to their pro-

ceedings, respecting which they must consult their own legal
adviser.
_ Mr. COOPER said it came rather hard upon the " willing

horse."
A MEMBER remarked that Mr. Cooper did not appear a
very " willing horse."

MARKET COMMITTEE.
In the report of the market committee, a resolution ap-
peared, authorising the sale of hay and straw in the London-
road, on payment of the usual toll. It was also set forth
that it had been resolved to erect sheds for the protection of
produce in the North Haymarket.
Mr. GLADSTONE wished to know whether it was intended
to raise the rents in St. John's Market.
Mr. JOHN SMITH said, what was intended was to make a
general revision of the rents.
Mr. GLADSTONE thought they were not bound to exact to
the uttermost fat thing for the rents in the market, and
especially at a period when business was known to be in a
very depressed state. He urged this as one reason against
any change ; but there was another and a still more import-
ant one, namely, that in proportion as the rents of the stalls
in the markets were increased, a direct premium was offered
for the removal of the business of those stalls, to shops in
the streets; and, therefore, to that extent manifestly injuring
the property of the corporation. He trusted, therefore, that
no change would be made. . • ~

repared to justify

Mr. EVANS was, if it were in ord
the raising of rents in St. John's Market
The MAYOR said, this question was not before the council
Mr. EVANS said, he would content himself with observing
that a butcher had given to another in the same trade £lOO
for being allowed to go into one of the shops in the market.
With respect to Mr. Gladstone's observation, if the public
wanted shops in other places, they had no right to do any
thing that would prevent it.
Mr. THORNHILL expressed strong disapprobation of the
scheme for allowing hay and straw to be sold in London-road
After expending £20,000 in the formation of new hay-mar-
kets, such a measure was preposterous. They would have
to drive away a stand of coaches; and, after all, they could
not find room for many loads of hay or straw. He did not
agree either with the erection of sheds for housing hay or
straw. Produce ought to be brought to the market to be
sold, not to be stored ; and if they offered facilities for doing
so, they would enable the farmers to raise the prices. Such
sheds would be a losing concern ; for they would cost £6OO,
and they Would not bring in £l5 a-year. As to the London-
road project, it was the most preposterous scheme that ever
was heard of.
Mr. PARKER agreed with Mr. Thornhill that the notion
of permitting hay and straw to he sold in London-road was
most. preposterous. They might, with equal consistency,
allow those commodities to he sold in Lord-street. With
respect to the erection of sheds, he did not agree with Mr.
Thornhill. He thought they ought to provide means for the
protection of agricultural produce from the weather.
EVANS said, that having had something to do with
this preposterous scheme of bringing hay to be sold in Lon-
don-road, he roust claim the privilege of saying a word or
two on the subject, especially as Mr. Thornhill had opposed
it, and had, no doubt, made his usual impression on the
council. (Laughter.) Mr. Parker had likewise spoken
against it, and, no doubt, with his usual effect. With respect
to the south market it was not now in existence. This ex-
periment was recommended in default of the South Hay-
market. Mr. Evans proceeded to state the course of pro-
ceedings in council touching the formation of the two mar-
kets, with a view of showing that lie had been an advocate
for only one market. The markets were at length brought
into action, and the north took all the business from the
south. It was difficult to say why this was, but if they found
that both buyers and sellers crowded to London-road this
would solve the difficulty. He bad an opinion that this was
the position for a market for Liverpool, and they had evi-
dence enough that a much larger place than this would not
support more than one hay-market. He knew of Land in
the neighbourhood of London-road that was exactly suited
for the purpose, hut he would not say too much on the sub-
ject at present. He hoped, however, to see the markets con-
centrated in that neighbourhood. They had purchased the
land on certain provisos, it was true, but they would have no
difficulty in arranging to compensate the persons with whom
they had entered into conditions.

Mr. BUSHELL said, Mr. Evans spoke of the failures of the
other markets, and he wished to remedy thoze failures by
snaking them still greater : he wished to draw the business
from them to London-road. Why should not the markets be
held at the north and the south on alternate days ? It would
be a system of reciprocity which would carry with it much
more justice than any other experiment. By the proposition
of Mr. Evans the property of both would be endangered.
If sheds were erected at the south market, farmers would be
induced to take their produce there, and in time the market
would be established. _ .

Mr. EARLS said was most extraordinary that the south
market did not answer, as the great bulk of buyers were at
the south.

Mr. THORNHILL differed with Mr. Earle. The great bulk
of buyers were at the north.
Mr. EARLE thought otherwise. He believed nearly all
the buyers were at the south. He thought favourably of
holding the market in London-road.
Mr. SANDS was like Mr. Earle, at a loss to know why the
south market did not answer. He had sent hay of his own to
be sold there, and his farmer was obliged to take it to the
north because there were no purchasers
Mr. JORDAN said they ought to ere
market and then it would answt

ds at the south

Mr. ROBERTSON GLADSTONE thought that however good
in itself, before Mr. Evans's plan was agreed to, it was the
duty of the council to try every means in their power, to
make the South market, on which so much had been already
expended, answer the object originally contemplated. If a
shed would have this effect, he was decidedly of opinion that
the attempt should be made ; and it was time enough, when
such experiments had failed, to talk of abandoning it and
establishing another.
Mr. JOHN SMITH said the great complaint against the
south market was that it was too cold and exposed. The
farmers did not like, for this reason, to send their cattle there.
They ought, therefore, to build a wall round it to protect it
from the wind.
Mr. PROCTOR said he hoped the counsel would agree to
build both a wall and sheds. If they did this the market
would answer.
Mr. KiLsnaw said if they did build a wall it would
answer no purpose, as that place was so much exposed. The
wind would come over the wall, and it would be as bad as
ever.

Evans in his

tient situa•

Mr. COOPER agreed entirely with Alderm
views respecting London-road, which was an exce
tion for a market.
Mr. H. HOLMES, seconded by Mr. THORNHILL, moved
that the proceedings be referred back to the committee, for
reconsideration. _

Mr. PLATT said the farmers were not likely to attend the
south market till they had some accommodation. Let sheds
be erected, and there would be some attraction, and they
would go to the market. He wished to know what accom-
modation they were likely to get in London-road, A very
few carts would fill the space there, but the crowd which
would appear would not prove anything.
Mr. RIGBY had been in the habit of conversing with
farmers for some years, and he approved entirely of the Lon-
don-road scheme. As to the land of the South Haymarket,
it would be no loss to the corporation, as it was worth all
that it had cost.
Mr. BOLTON objected to the erection of the sheds and the
holding a market in London-road. He moved that the
erection of sheds should be suspended.
Mr. EVANS said the notion of the holding the market on
alternate days, of shutting up• one market in order to force
people to another, was one of the most utopian that he had
ever heard of. By going to London-road, they broke no es-
tablishment, and they might, if it did not answer, discon-
tinue it in a week. Their object was the public convenience,
which ought to overrule all other considerations.
Mr. BUSHELL said there must be some reason why people
did not go to the south market, and it must be on account of
the situation. If they built a wall about it and erected
sheds, they would make it applicable to what was required
in all respects.
Mr. LLOYD supported the London-road scheme.
The council divided on the amendment, when there ap-
peared—

For the amendment 17
Against it
The amendment was consequently lost.
The following gentlemen voted on the division :
For the amendment Messrs. Thornhill, Preston, H.
Holmes, J. Holmes, Bolton, Yates, Robinson, Gladstone,
Bushell, Parker, Proctor, Brassey, Jordan, Platt, Holt,
Moon, and Turner.
Against it—Messrs. Shaw, Shand, Houghton, Copeland,
Mellor, Sands, Rae, Bright, Priestley, Aspinall, J. Law-
rence, Cooper, Wood, Birkett, Lloyd, Rigby, Kilshaw, J.
Smith, G. H. Lawrence, Bulley, Prune, Evans, Barclay,
Earle. R. Houghton, Nicol, Bramley-Moore, Molyneus,
Crook, and the mayor.
The proceedings of the committee were confirmed, it being
understood that the erection of the sheds was to be post-
poned for the present.
EDUCATION COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS.

The DEPUTY TOWN-CLERK read the proceedings, resolu-
tions, and reports of the Education Committee. It appeared
that at one of their meetings the committee resolved that
permission be Continued to the Northern Mechanics' Institu-
tion to use the ground floor of the North Corporation School,
between the hours of six and ten o'clock each evening, except
on the evenings of Saturday and Sunday, for the purposes
originally declared in the memorial to the Council of the 7th
of February, 1839, and terminable on six months' notice.
Mr. Alderman MOLYN E UX moved the confirmation of the
proceedings.
Mr. SANDS seconded the motion.
Mr. Alderman BARCLAY begged to trouble the Council
with one or two remarks in relation to some observations
which fell from Mr. Sandbach (whom he was sorry was not
in his place) at the last meeting of the Council. Mr. Sand.
baeli then stated that the Education Committee had deter-
mined to give up the apprenticeship system ; and he added,
as a reason for. it, that the apprentices did not attend, and
there were no means of making them attend. He (Mr. Bar-
clay) was surprised at this assertion, but, being taken by
surprise. he said nothing, although ie was aware that the
apprenticeship system was generally considered, in Germany
and Prussia, as the best mode of getting assistance, and that
it was recommended by the Committee of Education of the
Privy Council. The question, however, was, as to the beha-
viour of these apprentices; and considering that they were
serving their time, and were looking forward to the profession
as a means of support, it was of some consequence, at least to
them, that their characters should stand right. He, there-
fore, made some inquiry, and in the course of it he had re-
ceived a letter, written by a former mistress of the South
School, which was so much to the' purpose that he would.
take the liberty of readine it. Mr. Alderman Barclay then
read a long letter from Mrs. Buchanan, formerly Miss Har-
rison, who, for a period of eight or nine years, had been
mistress of the South School, but was now removed to In-
verness. It stated that the writer had read, in the Mercury,
the report of a Council meeting, in which it was stated that
the apprenticeship system was to be abandoned, at which she
expressed her surprise and astonishment, because, during the
whole time the girls' school was under her management the
apprentices behaved in the most exemplary manner, and were
exceedingly zealous in the discharge of their duties. So at-
tached were they to their duties that she could seldom prevail
upon them to go home to their dinners; and she had even
been obliged to force them from the school. As to the supe-
rity of monitors and apprentices, there was not the slightest
comparison ; by the monitorial system it was impossible to
secure a reaular attendance. but by the apprenticeship system
the cleverest pupils were brought out, and their services
extensively promoted the utility of the schools. The other
parts of the letter consisted of a warm defence of the female
apprentices, and a statement of the writer's opinion, pretty
clearly expressed, that the committee did not know what they
were about when they took upon themselves to change the

system.
Mr. SANDS asked to whom that letter was addressed ?
Mr. Alderman BAnCLAY replied that it had been addressed
to a member of the Ladies' Committee, from whom he re-
ceived it, and that it was at the service of the council.
Mr. GLADSTONE said it was very well to read this letter of
Mrs. Buchanan's, but one story was always good until ano-
ther was told. Mrs. Walsh, the mistress of the North School,
for instance, was decidedly of opinion that the system of ap-
prenticeship was bad. (Hear, hear-)
Mr. BOLTON said, then, there was the experience of one
who had been a teacher for nine years, against that of ano-
ther who had been a teacher eighteen months.
Mr. GLADSTONE begged Mr. Bolton's pardon : he was
Under a mistake in this respect.
Mr. BOLTON replied that Mrs. Buchanan had been mistress
and under-mistress of the South School for nine years.
Mr. GLADSIONE admitted that was so, but she had not
had nine years' experience of the apprenticeship system, for
it had not been anything like that period in operation.
Mr. Alderman EARLE, after some reference to Mrs. Bu-

g.anart's opinion, said he also should have a letter to read,
and as it was not in order to do so without requesting its
production, he should be obliged by the production of a let-
ter from Mr. Stone, the superintendent of the schools, from
the file of the Education Committee.

The MAYOR asked the Council whether they would au-
thorise the production of the letter?
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—What letter is it?

Mr. Alderman EARLE.—It is a letter from Mr. Stone, and
it has peculiar reference to a memorial which I have to

present.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—Who is it addressed to?
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—To the Education Committee,

Mr. BOLTON.—It is public property.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—It is public property, and I will
take care it becomes more public if it is refused here to-day.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—It is not refused.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—I may read it then?
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—Oh, yes; read it.
Mr. Alderman EARLE then read the following letter :
" North Corporation School,
" Liverpool, 10th March, 1842.
" GENTLEMEN,—In order to carry out the intention of
your committee, and my own uesire, with regard to the
schools over which you have been pleased to place me, I
beg to observe that I am decidedly of opinion, and experi-
ence bears me out in the assertion, that, as long as the ap-
prentices remain in the said schools, and under the impres-
sion that they may absent themselves therefrom during the
time of prayer and religious instruction, thereby giving a
license to those other children who may have precisely the
same objection as they themselves seem to have, it will be
utterly impossible to produce that regularity and attention
which is most desirable at the present time. I have taken
the opportunity of addressing the children and apprentices
upon the all.importance of a sound religious instruction, and
at the same time pointed out the necessity of every indivi-
dual's attendance during prayer. It appears, however, from
a memorandum which I hold, that five out of the seven in
the North, and three out of the four in the South, School,
object altogether to join during this time. I stated to them
That if they remained, they would be compelled to attend in
the schools during that time ; if not, there could be only one
alternative, that of cancelling their indentures. They prefer
the latter. .This being the case, I feel convinced that your
committee will see the urgent necessity of deciding at once
on this matter; -and from the circumstance which occurred
this morning in the South Schools, of which Rector Camp-
bell is cognizant, and mentioned to me by the rector, the
best course now to be adopted would be, to have their in-
dentures cancelled. Ocular demonstration is not to be got
over ; and the rector has requested me to state, that his firm
coe,!:!tion is, that until these boys are out of the schools, it
will Le quite impossible to set the same at work with any
credit, or to form any criterion of your present proceedings.
" I am, Gentlemen,
" Your most obedient servant,
" ROBERT STONE.

" To the Education Committee
of the town of Liverpool."
In the course of reading this letter, Mr. Priestley being
called out of the room ;
Mr. Alderman EARLE said—l really hope you are not go-
ing away, for you are an important member of the Education
Committee.
Mr. PRIESTLEY.— I am called out, sir.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Then I hope your call will be
short.
Mr. ASPINALL, in explanation of that part of the letter
which refers to Mr. Campbell, said, Mr. Campbell had been
insulted in one of the schools, on which he made a complaint
to the master.
Mr. Alderman EARLE said the explanation came mal apro-
pos. He could hardly think that Mr. Campbell would have
made such a request as that attributed to him, because in every
indenture of apprenticeship there were two sides to the bar-
gain ; the council were to do justice to the apprentices, and
the apprentices were to do justice to the council. He could
not believe that Mr. Campbell had asked such a question,
because everybody, and particularly a minister, who wished
to act properly, would first say to himself, " How should I
act in such circumstances ?" If he had a child apprenticed
under particular circumstances, which child was compelled to
do certain things against its conscience, would he, as the fa-
ther, approve of that sort of thing? If Mr. Campbell ap-
proved of it, he would have acted rightly ; but he (Mr. E.)
could not imagine he would have said these things ; he would
rather have said—" this is not the way that I would wish
others to do unto me." Then the idea of such a man as Mr.
Stone talking about the importance of religious instruction,
and so forth 1 It was absurd. He begged the Town-clerk to
ring the bell for a glass of water, for really the long sentences
in Mr. Stone's letter had made him quite thirsty.
Mr. SANDS thought the letter very fair.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—" Middling fair," Mr. Sands, I
suppose ?
Mr. SANDS.—NO, I think it very fair, indeed.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—" Very fair, indeed," for the
superindendent, par excellence, of the corporation schools
of Liverpool. This, too, from a member of the Education
Committee !
Mr. BUSHELL.—Can you point out a grammatical error
in it ?
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Yes, I can.
Mr. Bus tiELL.—Where are they? I cannot discover any.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Oh, you are a very great autho-
rity, Mr. Bushell, because all your own sentences are so
remarkably well turned.
Mr. Busum.e.—But I cannot speak so well as you.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Oh, yes, you do. I think you
speak remarkably well.—He hod a memorial to present on
this very subject of the turning away of the apprentices,
which he thought would be received with peculiar satisfac-
tion by the council, because the first person by whom it was
signed was a tory, and he bad voted with the tories at the
late election in St. Ann's 'Ward. Mr. Earle then read the
memorial, which was of extreme length, occupying eight
closely-written folio pages. It professed to come from the
fathers of the apprentices who had been " turned out " of
the corporation schools. It stated that when they were
bound it was agreed they were not to receive peculiar re-
ligious instruction, and they had continued in the schools
up to the present time on the understanding that no inter-
ference in this respect should take place. They had, how-
ever, been required to go to church, and they were not
taught algebra, Latin, and other matters as formerly; and
they complained that they were required to be transferred
from Mr. Nelson to Mr. Stone, who could not teach them
these branches of learning according to the terms of their
indentures. They had received notice from the Town-clerk
that unless they consented to the transfer they must not
again attend the schools ; and since this they had been twice
driven from the schools : however, before taking legal pro-
ceedings they wished to throw themselves on the high honour
and gentlemanly feeling of the council.—He did not know
whether the memorialists had vet taken any legal steps ' • but
whether they had or not he trusted that justice would be done
to them. As he had said before there were two sides to every
question; and although the apprentices had done their duty
to the corporation, it did not seem as if the corporation
had done their duty to the apprentices. He did not
think that it was exactly the duty of the Town-clerk,
although he entertained the highest respect for his
integrity and honour—(he should be very sorry to think
otherwise of him)—to try to get gentlemen out of a hobble
when once they had got into it. The Education Committee
were at present in a difficulty, and the Town-clerk seemed to
be trying to get them out of the mud. He (Mr. Alderman
Earle) would let them flounder in it. He would not, how-
ever, let them be a party to an unjust action. These appren-
tices were bound to a man of talent, for whom the public
had a regard, because he wes capable of teaching the chil-
dren; but he would appeal to any gentlemen, whether Mr.
Stone was a fit person to whom they ought to be apprenticed ?
His own letters condemned him ; but perhaps Mr. Bushell
had not seen them all ;—[M r. BuSHELL—Yes, I have]—and
Mr. Stone would have acted wisely if he had not written
them. He did think that the apprentices would be very ill
used if they were forced either out of the schools or to cancel
their indentures, unless there was some person to whom they
could be indentured able to teach them what the corpo-
ration had agreed they should be taught. These poor chil-
dren hail left other lines of life ; they had been singled out
for the purpose, as possessing peculiar talent, and he was
sure, from what he bad seen of them, that they were well-
spoken, genteel boys. They bad been at his house last night.
(Laughter.) Mr. Sands laughed, but—
Mr. SANDS—I laughed, because I thought there was some
investigation going on somewhere.
Mr. Alderman EARLE—An investigation going on some-
where ! Why all he knew was, that these two lads called at
his house last night with the memorial, and requested him to
present it ; but he had never seen either of them before. He
had certainly seen a boy named Slack, whom he had wished
to have taken into his counting-house, in Hoyle-street ; and
the father of one boy once called upon him at his counting-
h9use, and spoke to him upon the subject; but he said to
him, " What do you come to me for, sir? You have voted
far those gentlemen who have brought this to pass ; you voted
for Mr. Parker and Mr. Brassey, in St. Ann's Ward, and
what do you come to me for? If you disapprove of the sys-
tem which they have established, why do you vote for them ?"
" Oh, but," says he, " I voted under protest."
Mr. BRASSEY denied this statement.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—So much for " the investigations"
which Mr. Sands spoke of. But Mr. Sands had already in-
sinuated things for which Mr. Barclay had called him to ac-
count, and he must recollect that he did not come off on that
occasion with a very good grace, and now he was insinuating
things in which he would have equal difficulty in coming oil
with a good grace.
Mr. SANDS.—I shall be very glad to answer you.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Oh! I like to speak my mind
openly.
Mr. SANDS.—I was going to speak mine openly.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—AII I say is that I will do all it
my power to see these lads righted.
Mr. SANDS.—There is no wish on our part to see them
dtherwise than righted.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—There is the point. There is no
wish but to see them righted. Indeed ! Then I should be
glad to have the Town-clerk's explanation whether these pro-
ceedings are legal—whether the education committee can
compel these indentures to be cancelled ?
The TOWN-CLERK.—If the parties had furnished you with
My letter of the 29th March, which they have not, you would
have had the whole case.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—I have nothing but these.
The TOWN-CLERK.—Then you are deficiently supplied
with information.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Then it is your bounden duty to
us, Mr. Town-clerk, to give us your explanation.
Mr. ASPINALL.—The Town-clerk will do so.
Mr. HARBORD.—I think that Mr. Earle is himself in the
mud, and that he ought to be allowed to flounder a little

longer.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—I t is absolutely necessary that we
should have the Town-clerk's explanation.
The TOWN -CLERK.--At the proper time I shall be pre-
pared to give it.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—WeII ; I hardly know how to
finish this. (Loud laughter.) It is no laughing matter, gen-
tlemen. You are doing a great injustice to people beneath
you in station and life, but that is no reason why you should
do so ; although you wear good coats upon your backs, you
are not to treat the poor in this way. We are not sent into
this room for that purpose.
The TOWN -CLERK.—I think, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Earle
should finish his case before he calls for evidence. (Hear.)
Mr. M ELLOR.—I think, on the other hand, that Mr. Earle
ought to have the letter of the 29th March read before he
finishes his case.
Mr. HARBORD.—I differ from that, inasmuch as Mr. Earle
stated that the Town-clerk had no right to help to get the
Education Committee out of the mud. Now Mr. Earle has
got himself into the mud, and I think the Town-clerk ought
'to leave him to flounder a little there.
• Mr. Alderman EARLE.—That is a very smart and clever
repartee, Mr. Harbord ; but coming from you it doesn't hit
very hard.
Mr. BOLTON said, that if fair justice were given to Mr.
Earle he ought to be put in possession of the letter of the
29th March, in order that he might found thereon a resolu-
tion which he intended to propose.
Mr. LLOYD did not think so; but he thought that both
Mr. Earle and his proceedings should be referred back for
information, for it was very clear that he was floundering in
the mud in all directions. He had not got above one-half
the, correspondence ; but the Town-clerk's explanations, like
the Duke's" despatches, would make everything satisfac-
tory.

Mr. MELLOR must say this was not satisfactory to him.
In the first place, Mr. Earle should be put into possession of
the Town-clerk's letter before he finished his case—(cries of
" No, no") ; and further, some explanations should be given
to the council why that letter had not appeared among the
proceedings of the Education Committee-
Mr. Alderman EA.RLE said there were other points. There
was this point—the resolution forcing these children to do
what they were not bound to do, against their conscience;