The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-09-19 00:00:00

fE STATESMAN.

f--
ihonlrhiikeemie.l florivirri iff order to enable the (bee% ' attfttileil i girtit-nathise/ of puhlielliiellties,lteliid al
o clear herself. The milt or the Innocence, of the better opportunity than sunny 'leathers of hooting
queen Wl3 of no ituportAure comp trill with tha evil a hat the public opinion was. The feeling of the pub-
which %rda indicted on the thition.—(Hear, hear.) lir ou the pertvual of the evidence was, that it was as

litiought lot that oily riot hitiinsiroili bit-ittsto
flambee of men met together, they wore liable to bad
passions, and danger might entitle. There wH a meat'
ing on Monday, at which many thousands of persons
were likely to attend; great alarm existed, and eery
considerable inconvenience was likely to arise. How
they were to be suppressed he did not see, but the (to-
vernment should come forward, and assure the country,
that as far as legitimate power could be exercised to
suppress them, they would take care that there should
be no fear the popular feeling should go so far as to
be dangerous to the institutitris of the country.
Mr. llsisNAL said, if he had not knowe the goestios
before thief-louse, he should have thought, on hearing
the Honourable Alember who spoke last. Am they we, e
on the Seditious Alerting, on the Blasphemy Bill, or
some new and improved edition of those detestable me
sures. The Hon. lientleman hail talked with alarm of
the industry and the talents of the press. The House
of Peers had other views. They had thought fit to per
mit the publication n the evidence which they could not
but know meat, pendint-• the procerdi ;,create a prejudice
agaitist the Queen. The liberty of the press was to be
cherished, and for the sake of the liberty they should
now and then bear with a little license.—(lleai!)
Alr. llnsunus► said hr should divide the House.
The House divided—
For the Amendment - - - P 2
Against it -
. 54

Mr. Cnnerer said he also should state why- he
agreed with the Hon. Member for Wesstolinster in the
amendment n lassie he had ilinved. He had known no
public question that had ever arisen of greater im-
portance than a hither the Hill pending 4ainst her
Majesty should be alio:veil to proems.' ; and he knew
no other mode of bringing that question imp discus-
sion and getting an opinion on it, than by such a
a mittian a, the of the Hon. Member far Westminster.
On a former oecaseion, when the Hon. Member for
Cambridge shire hail made a similar proposition, he
had determined to support it : hut the Counsel for the
Queen had said, that it would be a groat hardship if
she were nut allowed to go into her defence. and he
hail consequently withdrawn his support (rain that
motion. Hut the fart was. as it now appeared, that
though the whole of the case against the Queen was
gone through, the injuries she had suffered were so
great, that the evidence againet her went, in the °pi-
nicn of the public, for nothing. The people hail seen
the Queen charged with a crime that was no. rime by
law; menaced with an Art which w. r at I.llre to make
the crime and to pronounce the judgment on it : they
had seen her negotiated with and threatened alter-
-1
liately ; they lead seen her formes ly turned oat of hers
house; they had seen her almost compelled to leave
this conntry ; they had seen her, when abroad, followed
by spies, all her actions watched, attaches! by a confe-
deracy of all the power. of Europe.—(Lord Cast, leivagh
sti,sented.) The Noble Lord might shake his head sub's,
but he (Mr. C.) had attended to the evislenre as far as it
had gone in I.- e House of Lords; hr hail heard from
the entombs eai the witnesses, that such ansl such ,Mi.
Misters and Ambassadors had requested them. and had
threatened to use fore.- to induce them to risme here.
They had seen the re,ottree. of England lavished on
the witnesses: and they felt CUM laced that the same
powers that were set in motion to bring hither evidence
against the Queen.- ild be Toyed ki--- !sack

dark and foul a conspiracy as ewer existed against the
Queen. and that his Majesty's Ministers were at the
bottom of it. It was on the principles of justice that
he had resisted the proreedinge. and so said the ma-
jority of the' lliiuse, which voted that the proceedings,
terminate in whatever way they might, could not fail
to he derogatoty from the honour of the Crown, and to
injure the best interests. of the country. The country
was persuaded, that till their affairs were out of the
hands of those men, there was no security for persons,
or property, or lass. or canstitution.
Mr. said he o as siitr to Alitti4r from his
Honourable Colleague, and if he could, with any
pr.aciple of justice, now put an cud ro the ease, or if
by any sat ril•ir.! of Lis own opinion he could cause the
proceeslities to lie drop; ed, he should willingly du
Hut as he saw no probaliiiity that his honourable
Friend wand induce the House to agree with him,
he email not b Ip expressing what he felt—that after
tie evideitre against tie Illustrious Individual which
had been offered. he should IR! guilty of the grossest
injustice if he tEd nut allow her to offer evidence to
rebut the ; linrges, and to prove, if possible, that they
originatt .1 in what some Honourable Gentlemen had
saki, a tool ronspiracy—(hear !) For these reasons,
though he felt how desirable it was that these pro-
ceed ngs shonld never have commenced, he could not
snow rote for the amendment of his Honourable Friend
-(Mr. lioblionse). Hut he could say thus notch, that
if the Hill were ever, as lie hoped it would nut be,
brought 'hurt from the other House, he should uprise
t on the principle that no Hill of Pains and Penal-
ties should 'ie tolerated whi:re the public. interest did
not MA ni febtly require it.
Sir M. W. Hinton said, Oat he felt that it was un-
necessary for Wm to state his opinions, after the -I:eech
of his Hun. Friend (Mr. Ellice), in which he folly eon-
caned. In ore of the Papers a statemeot hail heen
nsade. tehich he was anxious to hear some explana-

. -
Majority
The original question was agreed to.
Mr. Coat presented a Peliti ,a from the Freeholders
awed Inhabitants of the 'minty of Norfolk, depreenting
the proceeding now pending against her Majesty, ai4
pr3yiag that the House would reject the Bill of Pa!ri
and Penalties, if it should pass the other Bonze of
Parliament.
Sir B. WARRrNDER moved far a New Writ fr.- A
Member to serve in Parliament fur the county of AI: -
deco, in the room of J. Ferguson. Esq. deceased.
In answer to a question of Nir 11. It 11.34,1, resimrt.
ing certain transaction, relative to limns, the tvu:i:•:.
Lord CAsTi.rarariu stated, that the affairs relent-1
to. left no possiblt stain upon his character, and that.
this was the impression. not only of his Makit.-‘ty's
Ministins, but of the French CorernmeA.

_ ~. wool:: enipimm.„.... to keep !lack _
the witnesses in her favour. Such were the calamities ; lion. At a pablie meeting it hail been stated that hrr I, EXPENI E4W 1.1114: PHOCKEDINCIS AtiAmINSV
which were heaped on an inelivijual- --MI a woman— I Ma.l"slY loam; beel left short of nounry for her defence. : THE QUEEV.—Mr. IV/Will:1FM) rose to move for
that woman too a Queen----a Priecems• of time House ay' He hoped this %tat-amens origin Iteel in mistake. lan account of all the moilim•em expended in the prcse•
Itrunswick.---(Hear, hear :)---Tilese things comold nor! The coo oneri,o.ne of the Exciteour a said he was I litial' oft e Bill of Pains and Penalties amaiest bee
be known without arousing the a armeest and must last.l to assure time Hmomouralole Baronet, that . !Majesty. It appeared that some of the wiinetdoes bad
lisitairomPrilsoi,cldo.horribittatjaestiy's 11(.1(7114.'16,er. applied for, had
ing indignation. '1 he fact was. political Ttestinus were r, ,coxed very large stuns of money, end he thcMgimt his
comparatively matter of a day, bur vio::,:ions of the 'me • •isforooteri, that aka- sit ,
oaa.lestr's :Mit:i.•,ermo. so far from °pinning his •
ever itli. virini lit applytiiefuclabietrafter. would he issued, motion,
principles of justice were net er fortrotten.---(llcur, stib.keet ;only lio suet, account as they might be enabled would Pe clad of an opportunity of recneovieg part of
hear !)—Why hnt for this was it that now, at the dis-i to glee hereetter. • 1 the odium alai lied to the proceedings, by alieteieg
Sir •Al. W. Ittimev as!; •.d whether the Chancellor Of 1 that the expenititure could he properly accountes: fin.
lance of nearly two headrest years, the name of Hamp-;
den, a plain conatry tiestlonnan, who had defended his i the Exthequer would olo;e:t to produce an account of • He should inetade in tmis motion as account of all the
thel.;l,lTl(4.l7•:‘th the dates olltwlFl,ich he to'omold more for. .
property against the arbitrary orders of the Court, exeermees incto: red by the persons composing the Milan
was still ransoms among all fint,lish:oen?—.Why was pa,„,.,1 was ormappLgLii" I . '‘c"a4' " said, the ans" 'i
Commissioo, a Cononission which in his opinion r••
it bat from the villainy and roctmaption of the Judges ; Sir Al. U . Itincev.—What a re the dates of tier tlectrol any thing brit honour upon tl.e Ministers Ilk"
that had sanctioned the proceedings, that he was iu ; issmors ? employed them, and with the country which they errors
the mouths of every one who mould read the Eng- i The ('is ONCELLOIt of the Exeneotee did not exactly connected.
fish language'--.That Was a pliseeedinc, against remember. The' first sum mof 111,01101/. had been i• smog! Lord Cas•rt.er ea•no said, 0:31 tl.) whatevit evert
a primate man. Did the Noble Lora think that there rt after the lwKitiniittz of the trial, the other sum of the Huns, noielit hererater think it necessart to Ms
proceedings against the Queen lewd(' excite a feeling ll'alikrbil.ti,l.,7,7l„4l:irerbew"wilg:haZo; know b
~. 1 into such an ttto and on the part of his Majef I%•s
less intense "r less durable ?—Tamar, hear :)---l)iii lie elapsed between the applicationofor the ino..mn too.,injoit :I}o: llovernment, he was sure that every disposition es•
think that it was nothing to set the aristmmeracy against halve of it.
Pitond to furnish the lanes: information, vet the a•stiJa
the maiddle and lower classes of the nation? He %v... The CIIaSteRLLOR of the P.,•;curqt en said no farther of the lion. tlentlm man was altogether pre • attire, .5
nit one of those who th,atas tightly „.skellehouerser ri.eisso WI ittiorresvedietwersisrlorntv-of °thee ren.:ered •1 lb.' voittmleiVivere sot ;t pcese•it it; a state or readiness,
they were i•lentitied with all that had been gained for necessary. and he should beg It At 1., therefore, to stove the pre-
liberty in this country, and he wislmmol to see them .l r. ibet'mcittrrtnelin
bad mend
hr shim:mid supporti tie, amemsd • „inn, qm,„tio„.
erne,
continue to be times identiged ; lint he war .3111.7 to : „mt. The ' frit; a Pains ..o.ld pee:ill:4 T... 4.: il" ,711,1,4.: Mr. Wurree Fan observed. that a inotion simile; t 3
say that as tar a. they had gone, they injured them. , were told m .that • . .that which he had joist inamte had been torale in th
m; rouse, it was necessary to time moral.;
selves in public esteem. and hr believed the wish-weary , of the emettory, lilt lie should be giail to know whether oilier House, with refereuce to the Quern's niCliellt`Pi.,
to he hi the wrong, and the great body of the people : tl••• morals id time country would toot have been better i the amount of which was a users (rife, compared wit:,
, ,
its tne ri; got.-s-(lear.)--Wouitl not the Noble twit screed he imiiiiresiiii.;, or iiy sending abroad such evi- the expeneas of the prosecution.
th„rp,t,,,..,„.y awl the p 4.01,1.. ii" i tett, . dente as that whirls 11.1.1 tier's adtineel before the Larils:' LAM CatrrutirtActi said, it was perfectly untier•
rather keep
than separate theist as they were separated on the I get"' 'vere I.„ .„.ar..'l. to ferret. after
it, hr
toy ~.,,,mmi that the Inc ien in the other House
of pielinni,t:t
I goose on esommong aria lelll..liiiig it. hr feared they
:qnestion?—(llle.or, bear, bee 9.--The Hill degraded ' would have the ctio.11•1 of others no inmintre into hesiale Was made 1601 for the purpose of examining the ::..
.as It went on every iustitution in ties country. It I that of the Queen. He should, to ayoht suri, a ~„,,,„._ comets, bat merely with a view of ascertaining ti e
• professes' to degrade the hitter's. It hail olegramint the : armoire, vote to stop the proceeding 31 any stag.' of it: I gross amount of the expenditure. To such a nsitie•
j Howie of Lords.—(Hear, hear,)--'I lie ll:sliops were and as anon as time present motion was ,baptised of, in three could be no objertion, though. for the resent! L..
: ovlsatever way, he slior,l.l Lialie a matiou as to the costs hail alrealy stated, the account mint necessarilr 'o•
seated to bear eviderice which every mustier of a family
I would hide carefully from the slain of Isis sons or of kirme roweedings. . . . . .
, very nasatisfaetory.
it IttoNek agree,l that the inquiry was prejudmcsam to im le •
air. iitvereT wished to ask the Noble Lord from
I daughters.—(Hear, hear )--Ilmod not the Noble Lortl. the iPterests of the comm.% . lint a's time .oleumber fur
I too, seen in the published accounts ado. evideure, the Shrewdeory hail said, the ir.•;emon hall done its utmost. whit food these autos of snowy load been draw.,.
motives of theehrers of the Judges when any thing came • and he felt desirous that the Queen should be allowed, Lord CAS i'LEPRAtaI said, that the expenees..whish
low which seemed to pr0,,,.,pe thera.o. against the gneen, as he hoped and believed she would be able, to reboot the had been incorreil abroad were properly ehaigeti ...It
-(Lord Castlereagh intioiate•l his dissent.j—lle(Alr.C.) .
c.imargrs against her. He could nut forget too, that in- of the Secret Service money; low from the rosonso ..1
bad heard these cheers with his mnito ears. Ile had besot a '
elormidently of the qmoestion of the incototiownee of the i. I
•
e,m tarritication assumed the character of a istri...i.•
Queen, there wa i moldier epee:ion t.o be t ried,—whet her inquir-
y would be charged among the Ciril Poston-
witness of that friwlstfool exhibition. Ile had heard the ,„ the Ministers Imaml acted lustilialmly : and if it sloomilmi be •
'Counsel reprimanding the Judges—{Hear ! from a shown that they Imad boil. their charmers on prelims who !Mews. His Majesty's Mitlienr:: were prepared I •
, , sows;; i•Il the items charged lint of the Secret Seeri..•
elemmter nn time linisterial side). He did not know what were not creditable in their own country—if tiny hail
the lion. 3lem her meant, hnt he won't! ask whether it was built them on the lowest dregs of society in Italy, a Money to the same audit as every sutler part of the r••
not a reprimand, and whether it moist not have L en ease of guilt was established against the hfinisters.— welkin%
bear') Mr. Ilene said he recollected when the vote for
Olt as a degradation to that Assembly, when the (horse,
Counsel for the Queen asked what was the meaning of as tSirlte (:u.eNa macaw'. :LU
saidl t 1 •
he shouid
ivotetiftocrotihit; AfunrlTenitii Secret Service Maley pa-red, he plot a question to ti.a
thus' acclamations ? Hid he tout think that such an Penalties, the prlmi'mcitpillsego*fliwlel'eloito
had not been hena.rdalof Noble Lord esxpressly for the poirpeose of ase.!.tainii,...:
event was sincerely to be deplored? This was a real since the time ofJaases 11, whether any part of the twee sum then vote I had
degradation to the aristeoeraey. Then rump tip. intl.' '.thr. Alderman Ilcrca•re said he remained of the same twee aolied to this oirject, and Ime had !teen unable
million that the Hiyorre 4 Imise was to he lain „ tip. opinion as wen be had voted or the motiou of the tto ulgtin any distinct answer ?rolls the Nolrle Lord.
hewn rah' 3lehmber fur Member,f that the inquiry was He we: astossi,hrd to hear it nun avoarel by the Nobla
This intimation was given at a time when it was ap-
ibeimorions to the talandiry, ottomi.sloald on too. account have Lord, that lois )mlajesty's Ministers hail dared to tai,
prelocumled that recrimination, whim.), was inseparable
from the measoore, in whatever way it was urged, ane7nliroditt,r.litanfoottirtratr
to
slittott
if
tt
when• so
it was
ntli:sn.g.otitituipiprecerirmilt this money amid enoploy it for the flirty purposes iv
which it was now amisaitteml to bat r• been applied.
might be resorted he Hon. :Member for Shrews- He
to
thought it would .rep
pot be fair to either of the par-
Lord Cas sl,Li:L3i.ii said, that comi....mlet Sag the a•• •
lour.: hail justly observed, that whatever hail been said ties to interfere at this stage. No nieasare could he sub-
, f the king in the House, or still more strongly out minuet! for the Bill, till both parties had fairly been i tare of the inquiry, It was desirable to m ocolnet it with
of the House, diet not degrade the King half so much
heard in the Howse of Lords. There was a point coil- as much secrecy as possible, and the folly! which had
'
nected
He
this subjet•t, to which he could not but ad- been resorted to was precisely that which was beet
as this att. mpt to withdraw the Dis oree liaise [hear:].
'I he next establishment that was to he oimmeraded was ; ;i•eivrt.t.
it
her
twras.,labosotohmloiseholotohroat
eantriountorio:rflieoreporto.efes.oafedtillue . calculated to towel the expenditure.
Alr. Cricevey said, the grantine of thin money was
the House of Comtnims. If di,. 11;11, tic any moisfors ; militmory in political matters. us it was evident that the
one of the many anomalies of thy. proceenllng. Coati
tune, should come to them, in what situation would ! soldiery who aided the cause of liberty to-day might to-
they he. They were a jury of Gull, without the power i morrow lim• turned against it. Ile did not doubt the al- ; th" House think it had ever entered Mr. Itar..e's•eou.
of alusinistering the oath. He did not complain of ' leeianee of the British troops ; "lint as there was no evil temptation that secret service money %rem's! he eau-
t his, butt such was the law. 'I he only authority to! omit of which good did not arise, he hoped that the inters! ployed for the purpase of keeping the loin,-:'s Wile.
whoa, they could appeal, would lie that of tit, Worthy : •
itrironem: ofttti
el er
troopsto oo otno tiee
redin'ocenttilnorenirt worioitilitParial•iteicsstawbilliuslid . abroad ? If so, it was high•timr that the art for re-
it Lairman of the Coomosittee of Ways and 31rans. orients, end resort to a more constitutional sixties
of ratting its application shook! be revised, a I,t• Ci:ti
, sonic seenrity should 1., aiforleti against so en' • 3•
During the time hr had attended the House of Lords, fore,,
he had seen the Judges retire two or three times a day j Mr. KM,' DOVOLAS .131 J, thin alarm in which the coon- i misappltration of that f sod. With respect roe 'iv :no-c-
-ut instruct the House, in which there were four : try was kept, was less owing to any dread of the troops tion of his lion. Friend, be thoulett the sum total v.-as.•
learned persons who had filled the office of Lord Chan-
than to the press. In the present lime, in- lien of any ! ail that conld be obtained tat present, but the. eserse- •
rallyingi point for the well affected, they bad to regret , which the House ought sobseinenify. to takeaa.: a . s;
cellar. What could they do in that House without
die assistance of any Judges, and without any legal I that
direc :rite, ptrorsismwtsnitmlfetiesitirniousslwyjiiachhly,thaonadgisitacraczedisilsly most material COnsi ...iration. If, for ialreamm, the I.ill V •
: were never to ' crime' down to that House", the repel •es, •
' authority other than that of the Worthy Chairman wicked person!, almost martin an impression among tbye
(Ir. Brogden)F He hoped that this difficulty would , better part of the people, that it was wrong to umight not to be brought before them, itlOnts a .astere. . •
be never brunglit home to them ; and he felt out onIV ' resist them on thee subject which had now become • private proci•edin4, neither loom cue less.•aritt•he pu- 4. • .
' justified, but anxious to vote with the Honourable matter of discossioo—(A laugh.) At the present dant !Ilested against burtheeing the pa!iitt: with any isart. of. .
Member for Westminster, fur an Address to prorogue i he
i thought the House should nal ;tearooms without the ; Haw rsiobee,
; 1.1 oivernineet showing that it.enstifisposed to check. tbei - Me; si,forr wised to Imo* at what precise% pleeitoml •.,
the Parliament. He sliould Vote for the station, from
of ie in• usu./ tl press... (Hear, hear! from the Opposltion.).• th
i ' NoVieqii.)ed" *rimed the praceeitiv lb heolgs.tm... -.•
,Ma anxiety to preserve A yes for the administration • lie took the liberty' to observe on Is entjset conneeteill, i
*pihost,l4o.lolt4;twiyney. rairno longetitppliaater.i.4 t.
pefigipitice and Teseratiou for the Aid amt. hear q. 1, with the Wass and.thi. press, shalt *askew+. wen Pte aunt "rn .the proceadivitbecetzi• of''. '..
eentemi to time Queen of a very eiqient nathre,,ped that 'HOMIG•ItiLthatIIKAFII! Wig ,
r.-410P. P., Moans saith, ha shush/04414156 vensbas for l ' y bats.js Of ••••Wiiii,„ *lOO riluillffelillfte Atm lk•Aitae.ftte Mira* laths...2a !, 1.
the. were accompanied b
4010040011 "a awellib4eniew•wais•ll.4omlnta-ef 0'111340 hellf inconvenient:. thrhael Sien'al!*laligla twit aviNiell4fralei fot Paraninditt• . l'irm•ltrekoottcti :0-• . •
Llasentirannutlimmikjrr.g• at berasirfreeibis.tuirier of the onntroftelis when the holy et' mama ellittmost iriretaeglistirthe 'Vacant *trio • would ixf Mink beta/h.' :air •471
.1 -c• • ' •
• .. , • • . ._ : . • .• - ••••i'• %1" • 1
. • !se . iseotAf's ssi :''ma'sl