The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-06-13 00:00:00

M~~.r

E sTAT tsmA N.

is to economy and peeey, it would he wise 1/I of which he had received information, he was an-•tfliis-aitertlanh'it Would only show that lie really
woo. t„ joie will, Holland in the system of :; swered by the Noble Lord•tleat a time-would come, knew nothing about the subject. lie doubted even
e• hi; the Netherlands, because, it would always while it seethed the Noble Lord had all these papers whether it would have been politic to have accepted
:heee.r seetinst the attacks of France, and it in his pocket, and had not brought them forward till ttiese colonies from the Dutch!. The Cape of Good
hh render it much easier to this country to assist this late period of the Session, which its his opinion How could be df no use to us, Mauritius and St.
is iiii ie secorieg the eosaession of the Nether- : was a very wrong and grieveus conduct. This might ' Ifelena being in our hands; the only object which
:: wan the expence of keeping up large armies for bean advantageous arrangement for Holland—for the was desirable was to keep the Cape of Good hope
insure „r that country. so necessary to the safety Netherlands—and indeed fur all Europe, but he -.out of hostile hands, but in the hands of the Dutch,
security of lloilaid. If this system of fortifica- • would ask why must this country pay for it ? let son- our Allies, it would be safe; so that the only ques-
enioi appear to be somewhat expensive, it sequence of the Austrian Netherlands being Ceded to lion was, who should bear the expence? There was
P -
Id 1)) recollected that in return for the money we her, Holland is to pry Sweden for giving up Cuada- one reason, to lie sure, why aye should buy it--which
~ eiveirceel yip should retain in our own hands loupe; and if Holland seoule wit be able, his Hsi- was, that we had a Governor there, in the receipt of
...seterties which or lied in the course of the war tannic Majesty tepees to pay it. NVlty this should 20,0001. a year—[hear, heard]--for twice which
ore, pass. ssed ni, arid which finally belonged to be, he could not conceive on any principle but that, sum the thrifty Dutchman would have supported the
iteet_reloelee which would no doubt be very of our well-known lavish expenditure. Holland swhole colony. In the colonies also the Dutch were i
ieees io ea, not only by taking off large quatiti. was by no means so poor as had been represented ; •to have a jointstrade with ourselves ; for though this
1, of our meentifieteres, but also in furnish- she had got all the Austrian Netherlands ; hurl, be- benefit was to be limited to the Dutch proprietors, it.
': es eitle capon, mid other raw materials, which sides, she had got rid of half her debt, as well as i would not be very easy to prevent those persons
he ;tot fait to b' higely nelvantageous to us; and France. The Noble Lord had been dealing about , from exporting goods which were not the produce
se sere ceread to Franco her colonies, we should, his favours, but he had no right to pledge this coon- iof their own estates. It was plain that the purchase
~„ the lame principle of liberality, have done the try for a single million without the consent of that of the colonies had been the real, but that the busi.
Iry le. our ancietit Alle. Holland, had it been found House. The Dutch colonies which the Noble Lord nese was transacted upop other principles, which the
N„:„,:,:.e to Cie mutual I;tere;ts of both countries boasted of our having gained, were the . Cape of Noble Lord had styled grand i views and that, in •
gene to the arrangemeet respecting the Nether- Good Hope, Demerara, and Essequibo, iii return fact, the States et Vienna being diisetisfied with their
te. With respect to the third point, the payment for which you were to pay 5,000.0001. for the forti- shares of spoil, Great Britain had stepped in to sups
ree ireerret :ii the lean made by Holland and ficotion of the Netherlands, and that was niuch ply all deticienCies with her gold. As to the sum to
~es, he etought it was evident, and would appear more than the colonies were worth, if put up to sale. be paid to Sweden, the Treaty and the statement of
ts hoped in the Committee, nett this arrangement You will gain nothing by the Cape but the expence the Noble Jaime were at variance :—The Treaty
:, siva been made on terms equally beneficial in of keeping it, and the patronage. Besides, though spoke of 24 millions of florins, which would amount
p!lt of payment to suit the interest and corn- eou have the three colonies, all persons residing to about a miltion and one-third ; but the Noble
see of tles menu y. With respect to the origin there have a right to send their articles to Holland as Lord said it was but one million sterling.
I stare of the loan, he was not possessed of well as to this country, so that we should have the Mr. BATilurtsT thought too narrow a view had
e'teat kitewledge at the subject to explain it expence of maintaining Them, and Relined would been taken by the opposers of the vote, es they had
Sseiil ; but it was well knees there was a loan, hese all the benefit of their trade, which was a (lex- net considered the consequences which might have
• ley meet of shish bad been suspended for many trous exchange of colonies, without any other ad- resulted, if any Member of the Alliauce had with-
:we from a variety of concuriteg circumstance,.-- vantage than that of buttlicilieg the country, and drawn itself eluting the last war, or-tfirown itself into
is voted have wished that the Allies had had it in lavishing away the public money,
.With respect to the opposite scale. Mien an Hon. Member had
ler power to have delivered 'Lithely! and the Lew the 136,0001. a-year to be paid to Russia', it would said, it was to supply the deficiencies iii the spoil that
esstries from the yoke of France without luokiiig take 33 years to pay it in,• and why was England to we had stepped forward, why had he closed his eyes to •
e any pecuniary compsiteitions : hut really all the pay this? He believed Holland could not pay at this the Low Countries, which was obviously an object
teems of Europe had twee so exhausted, and perti- moment 2,000,0001. but he had no doubt she could for the annexation of which to Holland this country .
early Russia, that it was impossible, after the pay 130,0001. a year. If the Noble Lord had in an- should mekev some sacrifices? By, the 'Treaty of
reek made on that country by Beimparte, that the early part of the Session proposed to give these Park, sill that was decided as to the Netherlands was,
hoporor could bring up his troops for the deliver- 5,000,0001. for these colonies, he (Mr. T.) was sure that they should not belong to France. Though
:.ce of Europe to such an immense distance without he would not have obtained a majority with all his from whet he heard, he was not disposed to rank the .
,eiving some pecuniary assistance. The different • power in that House ; but in making his arrange- Dutch Colonies so low in comparison with Getada-
' wens ',f Europe had, therefore, formed a chest at menus the Noble, Lord never cared whose property iloups, es the Honourable Member (Mr. Baring), it
lielefort, and had severally agreed to contribute he was disposing of, so as he could de it by a •state-1 was not on the ground of their absolute value that this
„11 of them a year's revenue of their several States, man-like manner, as he had shown in the case of ' country had . returned them, but because so many
ae the purpose of pas ire: the expellees of the war. Saxony, &c. here we were to pay 5,000,0001. for British- subjects, and so mueli 'British capital had
1
'elm was accouliegly made on Hollettel and the fortifying the Netherlands, which Holland was to I been engaged. The fortification of the frontiers of
;'llwrlatiels to make good their quota. These come- have to herself. On principle we ought to pay thelthe Low Cr:rreries was the only means by which that'
ries had been so drained and exhausted by their an- money, and it required every rower of the Noble ;country coni*(l, be pule secure, and 'consequently of
lotion to and dependence on France, that it was Lord's countenance to propose it. At. this late pe-s any, advantage to this country ; and as this object
teressible for them to 'meetly with the demand ; rood of the Session to bring for-weld such a 'measure I could not be accomplished for less than eight or ten
II J. at length, through tin' flietelly noel vettnon of was highly unjust—the payment of half a loan
oft
of which sum the revenue of Holland was
testria and Ertissia with the Emperor of Russia, made in Holland fOr the service of the Emperor Of tire; in a state to supply the w hole, was not our aid
a eir
•
om they gave up the lir shires, it was agreed Russia. • - justified? It had been proved by experience that
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,st Molten(' should pay in money. Art arrange- Lord CASTLEREAGH, in explanation; said, it it was not secure in are hands of the Ditch, eel! it
. ate was also made that it should be paid as was impossible to lay these Papers sooner befirre the ! wie'lliereforth better, even with a view to economy,
a annuity, %shish would be much lighter than the House, because the final arrangements were not made' that we should retain it, titan be at the expence of re.
*.
prises oi leis irig the whole gross suet at one time. out. , . r.: coMpiering it 'at e future time. Onthe general view
PI this at rentsement, which would else Hann rid Mr. FORBES Madre several observetimis respect:: lof ilel cPieetion; and nOt looking merely- at the pounds,
one years for the treyment, that country would trot ingthe circumstances of the Isle of Batten, of which shillings, and pence, he thought the proposition
r its recite a present relief, but the thing itself the ltajah had been deposed chiefly ottelioquestfoit or :juhrified.
a,mlrl give the Emperer of Russia a lively interest the tin contract. There appeared tube a 'sort of tTr: BARING observed, that the question had
h, Ile feuding 11,•Ilind and the Netherlands, if at any juggle in the bur:bless. • • ' -- • • be put olio better footing by the abandonmetit of
• •
levee time they should be attarked.by France- He MA r. WALLACE explained..
is, happy to say, that even before these matters Mr. NVIIITBREAD observed, that it ;vas stated, Jthe real ground. for the votee But still he thought
_.
were thus settled, the Sovereign of the Netherlands that the Rajah assisted us. thaltha arratteemeht wassnotjustified on any princi-
.
lad made arrangements, and expressed his positive Mr. WALLACIeI said, he did not give the timeliest iilehof leritish policr her interest was, that some
el, tiornitretion to follow the example of this comet ry , assistance, and he took. advantage of our success in'
.great Continental Power should hold the Netherlands,
is a total Abolition of the Slave Trade. With re- Java to massacre the Dutch, , ' -•I which might be'abli t 0 protect them against France;
teert to the means of providing for the payment,-- Mr. BANK ES spoke at some length, and strong- but if no reach. piiwee..would lake them, we should not
,roe list of which woeid not become due till the 'ly recommended the observation. of economy,. Li- at 'any ratet•have paid, other Powers for the transfer
s'hlle ..f the year 1816, and would only amount to berality and generosity were very fine things ; but it t of them to Ilullitid..l-10-ies of Question.]
i'!ri Cool. e-eear, to continue only so long as the : was necessary to look after the state of our own Mr. W. smiTir'snid, it was with the utmost dif-
:solier lauds should remain independent of France. finances, He had objected on the same principle to ficulty that the Ho'noe could be prevailed on to pity
tt . these el numbs he should propose a Resolution to ' the Treaty we made with Sweden. Treaties of this aims attention to a subject of such importance, but
r.. Committee, to vote the sum of 2,200,0001. the ; nature were not only greatly expensive, but. also lie felt it his duty to-protest evirist the vote. If this
pay-ment of which would be made in the middle gave us a lower tone amid less importance in general country had only ea nt ribut oil by her money to the
is ,he year 18IG. affairs. I object of the war, the other Powers might call on us
The Chairman then read the Resolution, as fol. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that it would he to accommodate matters With our gold or paper, Init
1,,,c;---That it is the opinion of this Committee unwise to disclose engagements which were comb*. they should remember that we had constantly kept
'• That a sum of 2,200,0001. he granted towards the gent on other measures to be adopted, and which up 150,000 seamen, and a land force, immense in
I- :emit of the interest of the capital sum of twenty- were to give them effect. There were material points comparison to our population. Why then were we
tire millions of florins, being half of the loan mule to be considered between Holland and Great Bet- to pay all other Powers? As 4n the fortification of
..t. Pl:Oland for the service of the Emperor of a ussia." Mitt, when these engagements took place. -rh, Ho- Belgium, it was necessary, as we were to pay two
Mr. WIILTBREAD adverted to the manner in imorable Member (Mr. B 'ekes) applied his enlarged millions towards that object, to have some security
which the Loci had been originally !reechoed, amd mind to limited views, and did not consider, in look- that it would be accomplished ; otherwise, we might
the injury which the private individuals with whom it : bleat the money, what inielet be the consequences of be'merely So Much the poorer. and the frontier of
ues wegociated, must have ,sustained from the nee. refusing the assistance. On the whole view of the-i Belgium never the stronger. Why were we to pay
eel formance of its conditiotts on the pait of Russia. ' ;apnoeas of the last campaign, it Would appear that j Holland also fur accepting what Austria rejected,
Lid CASTLEREAGH said, that the Empero. Iso much was never done at so little cost. Great pre- and other Powers for giving up that which we paid
sr Russia had always attached the greatest ion- judice might have arisen to common interests by a Holland for receiving? He had no doubt, that even
ssmitance to that Loan, and was most anxious that i premature disclosure of engagements.' There 'was if we had not subsidized them, the Continental
i •lieuhl continue to be paid ; but %Idle Holland •no material difference as to the mode in which Powers would, by some means, have found money
wis in possession of France, his Imperial Majesty Russia received front England pecuniary- assistance. to continue the contest against France. •
eel not think that a time to swell the profits of At the time the engagements were entered into by the 'Mr. LOCI HART opposed the principle of the
erice, by remitting value to Holland. i Powers, there was only a Prosisinnal Government i Treaties. The Netherlands, he' observed, were in
Mr. WHITBREAD replied, that it appeared to in the Netherlands, so that there could ba the same part conquered by British arms—it was conquered
I'm her a poor sort of excuse. that because 11611 and certainty of supply to the chest of Feinkfort• The; by' our victories in Spain and France; and we had.
s,: in the poesession of France, the private cre- Russian loan in Holland was since 1891. - therefore a joint title to dispose of it. The Cape
ttieirs of the Emperor of Russia %sere therefore to Sir J. NEWPORT commented on the Netherland of Good Hope could be of no benefit to us—it Was
i• ',.er ; for it thould be remembered, that the Loan harrier which was destroyed by the Emperor.Joseple. as safe in the heeds of the Dutch. lie dill not think'
v. is contracted not with the Government of Holland, ; When it was kept up, Holland bore a share of the the industrious people could want our aid to repair'
Let with pi ivate individuals. Nor did it appear that expence. Now it appeared that we were to take a ' their own fortresses. It was of the utmost import-'
throe creditors were in a much better situation at great share of this expellee. As to the Isle of Banca; ance.to strengthen the hands of Government, hut of
i ra,ent ; for the Noble Lord said that the first pay- there certainly appeared to have been a miserable greater consequence to meintain public credit, which
relit was not to take place till 1816, but if, by time Juggle, the same as had been seen in transactions . could only be done by a Vigilant' eye on the public
ascots of war, which God forbid, Belgium should with native Princes of India, whoa dominions were exp•sruliture. The Noble Lord• had boasted at the
Loire 'rase into the possession of France, then all afterwards handed over to other Powers, as it suited , time whew tlie Treaty with Sweden was formally cons
element was to cease. It appeared to him to have the supposed general convenience. The Noble Lord sidered, that we had not guaranteed Guadeloupe to
heart a case of extreme hardship, frora beginning to seemed ignorant of the circumstances respecting that her ; but now we were called on to pay a million of
,
cud, upon the private creditor. Island ; but merely supposed it must have been ho- money on the ground of some pecuniary engagement
ford cAsTuit EAG II explained. nestly come by. to that effect.
Mr. TIERNEY said it now fell to his lot, ns:it I Mr. BARING contended, that not the slightest Mr. FORBES objected to the transfer of the
hal often done before, to call the attention of the foundation had yet been laid for the proposition of Island of I3anca, but considered the cession of the•
Cronnettee to the son, they were now about to vote. the Noble Lord; he conceived that it was quite ir- Cape of Good Hope as most advantageous to this
Those papers showed the whole would amount to regular for Parliament to he called upon to give its country.
e C00,0('Ol. There axes 1,000,0001. to Seeder!, sea lion to a Treaty before it had been ratified by I After a few words from Lord CASTLEREAGH,
ee,oo,ooel. for fortificetions, and the foreign Power with whom it was made. There the House divided.
Lord C A e'er, ['AEA GII said across the table it see!.,ed neither I eason nor justice in callie ,; upon Great . For the motioa -
aAgaitst it -
hes mistake of the Right Hon. Gentleman : there Britain to make good this debt to Holland; and the I Majoi it!,
e ere 1 exioeco to swede'', 9,000,0001. for fortifica- r probability appeared to be, that while the Sovereigns I Report to be received to-morrow.
r'
ties, am; 2.9.90.0001. to Helloed. were squabbling nt Vienna for pieces of territory, I Mr. TIERNEY moved for an ACcoutit of the
Mr. TI ER NEy insisted, that according to the the Noble Lord, to restore harmony, had thrown its Military Appointments of General Lord Cathcart
s•atements in the paper on the table it appeared to the money of Great Britain, without reference either I end General Lord Stewart, and the emoluments re.
he more. However, there was one observation het to the amount, or the benefits it was likely to pro--
ceased by them.
could not help making. All these papers were dated I duce It would doubtless be replied, that the value
in August, 181-1 ; and now in June, 1815, when the of the Dutch Colonies was great, but the truth was,
House supposed ail money engagements were over, that the Island of Guadeloupe alone was worth in-
tee were called upon to vote such a large sum. Sc- finitely more than all the Dutch possessions in the
veral weeks ago, when he had called on the Noble West [tidies united.—[ Lord Castlereagh' stook his
Loud for an -iiiplauation of some of these very items . head.]—lt the Noble Lord ventured Cu contradict

lot
19
- --85

SUPPLY.

On the motion ofi..;id—CASTLEREAGII the
Ilnuse went into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. BARING objected to going into the question
of Supply at so late an hoar.
After sense Observations on the part of Mr.