The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-06-02 00:00:00

Si A TV,S MA 24

Protection treat limpreos of isnxidnien enrtgedVdse British
Vie I rish Treasury Bills Bill wi.s read a secessePwills... and
ordered to be committed to-morrow,
Toe Wm-, haviii resolved itself into a Committee of Sup-
ply, the CHANCELLOR of the t 11 EQU F.R moved,
OA a ow) not exceeding 11,0011!. he paid to Lords Olentservie
onl pltialand. for their seritit es as enuniti•ttioners of the
Land T , the Nilo 1199. up mine preseut period.
Ur. CALEB AFT sell. that without peininineing opi-
niassupon the parritulor services of these two Noble, Lords,
intheiresipacity ns corainissionereof the Lend Tax, he still
4as of pinion. that as they both received large pensi tttt s, and
pv14.111..01 as Lord Glenberv:e held the office of Surveyor-
General of Forests, that the coumry had some .rim to these
tens ices in the office alluded to, without being obliged migrant
them such specific remuneration as was slow sought by the in-
closed Resolution of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. P E R.O EV A L did not conceive that merely because
persons enjoyed ,pensiitin for their farmer public services,
,therefore the country had a right to their future labours for
Such a space of ttine as ten years, without being bound to ren-
der some remuneration for their trouble unti responsibility. -It
was an additional recommendation *hit him to bring forward
the present proposition, from oderstatidisg, that it was the
intention of the last' Adtnidistration to have suhmitted a simi-
lar one to the considerati.m ofthat House: Ile begged to be
understood as adverting to that point, with no other view hut
this, that he felt more strongly the propriety of snaking a pro-
pasition,'Which was also suppnrteaLby their authority.
Mr. CREEVE,Y admitted the very great political services
of laird Atte:cloud, but he could uut recog,nise the claims of
Loa Glenhervietoenjoy at the same time both pension and
reinunetation. • • •
Sir JOHN ANSTRUTHER took a view of the first ap-
pointment of these Noble Lords, when the extent of the
1107 was nottpriderstood. It became very latorion,, and he
believed the country was much benefited by their able and
at dimus exerVoni. He contended that bath the N iohle Lora:
had a fell data from li st serviceseo their pensions, and
therefore he (mild not accede to the objectioie that having
wensioos for former services, they were not to be remunerated
for future 'nimble.
Mr. CALCR AIT had no notice of melt a propesition un-
til it was moved in the Counruittee.. From what had passed,
he did not regret the opposition be made to it; its principle
was wholly unjustifiable, and likely to he perverted to very
pernicious purposes. It Went to establish new offices, to
which emolument was attached, without the consent of that
Idolise, ate, in tome cases wholly evading direct and positive
statute s. For instance, Lord Glenbervie might he, as be hes
reved be was, a Member of that House in 1-799—he erws.
then appointed' via ditty from 'which no emolument •Waint)
accrue, but now after ten years a reinunerntion of 60001. was
required for him, amounting to a salary of 6001. a year. If
snch a salary was in contemplation at, the time of the ap-
pointment; the House should have snore duly considered be-
fore it voted sudt grants; at all evene., that Noble Lord
Iseult! have been obilged to hate vacated his seat, By the
present proposal of remdoeration for past services, new rates-
, were created, stud a positive statute evaded. With respect to
the merits Of the. Noble Conk, there was a marked distine-
" don. Lord Auckland had discit urged great public duties in
most exemplary manner, fol` which theenun:ry was highly
grateful, whilst, though mueh seat beard Of 'great remunera-
tions to Lord Glenbcryie, very little was known of his puhlic
merits. The House ought to pause before it Acceded to these
demands made every Session of • Parliament for increas-
ing the salaries of Civil Officers at the time that it
felt itself wholly unable to add to the scanty subsis•
trace of its
,meritorious Military and Naval Officer's.
It should not heighten . the grievances of the latter
by favouring 'others when it was unable to help them.
lie hoped that the Right Hon, Pentlemac (the Chancelhir of
the Exchequer) would have no objection to let the Resolution
stand over until the next Committee of Supply (Wednesday
next.)
Mr. PERCEVAL thought the Resolution might then pass,,
and that the discussion could take place ou the Report, which
might he deferred until Tuesday next.
After a desultory conversation between Mr. Calcraft, Mr.
Rose, Mr. Shaw Le Fevre, Mr. Adam, Mr. Brown, Sir J.
Newport, Lord !Milton, and Mr. Tierney, it was at length,
agreed that the Resolution itself should be postponed until the
next Committee or Supply on Wednesday next.
Mr. PE.RCEVA I, next moved, that a sum ant exceeding
100,0001. should be voted in aid of the Fund for the support
of Queen Anne's Bounty to the Poor Clergy, having livings
under 15tH. per ann.
Mr. TI EItN EY nbserteJl, that when It was stated, that in I
all probability this grant mast be annual for 20 years, it he-
came a very serious and important questi.n. He therefore ;
called upon the House to consider, whether the Act of Queen I
Anne, ref Jive to the tenths iond first flints, would not bear a
donstruction which would enable them to apply those to the
relief af the Poor Clergy, instead of intim-tog this burden on
the public. He agreed, however, in the InAlp object of the
Resolution.
Mr. NV; SM ITN theught the object revert. proper one; but
mentioned, that iif the comity in which he lived, some.of the
Clergy lied talked of collecting tythes in such a way, as to
make theta a fourth or fifth of the rents of the kingdom. He
thoueht a time when such ti,ctrioes were maintained a
proper one to load 'the country with this burden, when it
Might he home b. the Church Revenue.
Sir J. NEW POR was of opinion, that it 'would have
been but inunLinoe in the higher Clergy teemselves to have
come &smard in aid of their poorer brethren. If the first
fruits and tenths had been in the hands of the Crown at this
time, they would hate been ampli suAci-nt for this purpose;
and even if there were a legal difficulty as to the Construction
of the Art of Anne, the higher Clergy might perhaps have
been expected to make a voluntary grant for the relief of the
poorer cla'ss of th. it own body. •
Mr. PERC EV A L thought the act clear against any claim
on the chnrch property ; and it would be injurious to diss
tetrb that law now, as even a great many of the lay impro-
priators Nut purchased upon the faith of it. He did not con-
Oder the house as pledged to continue this grant; but he
thought it might to be continued.
Lord NI ILTON concurred in the object, hut rather thought
there might be a disposition of church property applicable
•to It: He complained of the little accommodation in
Churches in great towns fur the poor, to which he ascribed
in ft great measure the aerating metease of meetinghouse
'sal setts. • • •
Mr. WILBER POFtCE was glad that no objectinn had
Iseeo made to the object Itself. Itc lamented tae want of
churches, and the scant of attention to the accommodation of
the poor. He was desirous that churches should be erected
by the public; but if not, by individuals. He did not ap-
prove of the idea which had been thrown ;iut, that the rich !
bed the •poor should attend sit differeat hours. One of the
chief objects of public worship was to bring them all toge- I
tiler. Even in thine countries where it was reckoned pollu-
tion for one ca.t 'to mingle with 'another, they all met tsge-
tber at the Temple. This grant would increase the comft orbi
of the poor rather thin detract from them. The spreading of I
Chrktianity was the way to encourage charity. Before
Christianity the atiafe wasoinknown; and here, where Chris-1
dimity prevailed in its purest shape, charity Inuit be ptevaL
lent in a higitdegree.
• • fife.-60WAITRY wattid wish to increase the comforts of j
'the poorer Clew, as well as those of all the poor, but be
thought the first fruits rindientlis ought to he applied to this
purpose. The Ad of Maw, when tpken in coilinuction- with
that of 9rsestrge 1. did not appear'to prevent this.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL held it to •be important
that 110 doubt should exist as to the construction of the Act of
Aunt, and declared it to he his decoded opinion, that it had
hied the rate to.be levied, 'arid that it who'd bea breach of
publiifaithin increase the rate. • • •
Mr. H. MARTIN was of a different opinion. and argued
from the preamble and general tendenty of the Act, and trim
its history, as given by Bishop Burnet, that a a.!sv valeation
was not precluded. Tie Clergy, as a body, were richer than
the laity, as far as he bad been able to perceive; and what- ,
ever odium and unpopularity nigh - attach to his opinion, he I
thought that the people ought not to' e.bortherted with this
gram, whets the church It venue was very capable of sup-,
plying the wants or the poorer Clergy.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended that the Act
of Anne Was conclusive against any increase of the rates of
first fruits and tenths, •
Mr. TIERN EY, with an due deference for so high an
authority, hail still great doubts on the point.
Mr, A. BARIN to thought it a very Serious vuhlett,'"and
contended that a proper distribetioW of the Church Reveotte•
would have answered the puipose. He ascribed the increase
of sectaries and meeting-houses to the negligent or improper
conduct of some of the Clergy in the great towns. Tome sal
the country who performed the greatest part of the duty
were the least adequately restatarrated:
After a few words from Mr. •Ilkillt)CIY, the Resolution
was put and carried. .• •
The follow lag sums Were then Sallikair • • • •
Bapence of printing a set of thealmiswids e the
• Hume of Peers -* - 42817 19 1
u Priatiak another set of their Joistnak • • 15tH 1 4
Was reair's and different works about the Speak-
• eel house and the House of Parliament 11,550 0 0
• rbt es plrriag the interior of Africa ' - NI 16 0
-liiprtivemt.rs, die. strand near Westadissless•ltall 8854 16 0
'I ogether with apwa ds 4410001: few rarrying into effect a
plan for the establishment of a horse palm* for the secartty
of the roads leading to *e metropolis, Iles &e.

•

Mr. Wlf A RTOlli then pritiosed a sire of 10341.55. to be
paid to Mr. Rend, for the Expellee of Constables employed
during the late Disturh.t..ces.
Mr. W II IT 14 ft B A !) ohserved,that it had been a stihieet
tionsiaiiit that the civil powm. owd nut been oatticiently ems
lif"Yeti etual befaie this money, he wished to see an
acco"ttt of the manner ia which the pence-ollicers had been
timployetto and how the inOntr nes to be. distribuied.
Mr. WHARTON was n •L prepared with a distinct answer
'at that time, nod agrevd po.tinm2 the Resolution.
Mr. WHA It lON then prop*sed a sum of 1911. 13s. 6d. for
the Surveyor-livneral of in _Suva •Srotia, to inatjugt
for an under statement in a compensation which imd betW
lowed him.
Mr. W ITBRF.A I) asked what this compensation was ?
Some account of these Wogs ought to he given before the sup-
plies were applied for.
Mr. .W I I A RTON agreed to postpone the Resolution.
A Melo ,ge from the Lords annoutire,d their :assent to the
Loachen Omits Bill,the Liarisc Officer; Sirperdmitiation
and several private Bills. .
Mr. RAN KES moved that the Rest:lotions passed yester-
day relative to' Sineritres be printed.—Ordered.
Mr. C. 1V alter ohseriiinfr upon the inefficieoey of '
the Act fOr preventing lirihery at ilectiotn, obtained leave to
bring in a Ball for amending the said •Art.
The Marine. Insurance BIR was read a second time and
committed. • •
CATHOLICS.
•
Upon the Orier• Tor. resuming the adjourned
Debate ape's the Catholic Question, •
Mr. C. LI OTC HINSON rose and obsercetl, that
the sincerity of the Catholics in their prefesSed at-
tachment to the Constitution was obvious front the
very nature of theii Petition—tkat they sudlqht.not
to destroy bet. to participate in that Constitution
was evident from the character of tlitir
The objections made to their creed, by their op-
ponents, were already sufficiently answered,- not.
only by the replies of the Learned liniveisitiii,
SO often referred to, but by the explanations and
arguments u( those who had preceded him in the
debate. Bet cf's!! the objections urged against
them, he confessed that ho was most astAnishel to
End it still fashionable •to question the fidelity of
the Catholics to an oath, as if they could not par.
take dill the advantages from which they were
excluded were they not conscientiously seruptilinis
upon that point. The tenor of the coronation oath
did'not furnish, he.coutended, any obstacles what-
ever,lf fairly interpreted, to the demands of the
Catholics. That oath was, in fact, framed by men
whose principles and character forbade thesuspicion
that they could have roetlitated•suell an interpreta-
tion. 'those-who lived nearer to them did not so
understand it. This was evident from the conduct
of Parliament kelvin's the Dissenters in the reign of
George the First and Secintd. But if the corona-
tion oath were inch an °Wade ar was lately pre-
tended, how freqiently and conspicuously was it vi-
olated by.thecotieessions made to the Catholics in
Ireland. IVereGentlemen who now talked so mech-
of-this oath aware that Catholics *ere admissible in.
to that House after the Revolution t Or, did .they
really 'mean to push their argument respecting to
coronation oath to such an extreme as watt d
warrant the inference, that it lies not framed by
free men with a-view to. guard against tyranny, but
by tyrants, with a view to hold a great propor-
tion of the people in slavery ? Wear, hear I]
They certainly :could out, in his opinion, be
considered as the advocates of, freedom or justice
who could contend that this' oath was hostile to
the just rights of millions of,ner fellow-subjects
—of those, whOOlthotigh fed neon potatoes, as
was sometimes sneeringly 'observed,' were swell
men as he would nor fear to set in competition
with any set of mett belonging to any
whatever dainties they might live upon. But
whore so touch was s.iitl of the discontents and
the differeece of the Irish from other parts of the
Empire, he would beg thent to consider the wise
observation, that the people of all countries were
just such as the Government made • them. ,The
Hugonots of France, the Danes anti Saxons in
this country, and the Scots also for a series of
years furnished sill% lent exemplificatiotvor this
opinion, if it were meant that the Irish should
inalgamate like the Scotch with this country, it
was for the Parliament by peeper measures to ie.
coruplish that amalgamation. It was to be recol-
lected, that in England, and Scotland alsoi the esta.
blished religion was that of the people, while in
Ireland it was the contrary—while In Ireland, not.
.withstaitding the Treaty a Limerick, the•religlan
of the people was proscribed, of course the dis-
contents of the Irish were very naturally to be
accounted for. , But it was in the power of Par.
Hameln, and on'y by the exercise of common kis.
tice, to remove those discontents. It was in its
power to do so only by redeeming the pledge made
to the Catholics at the unions The Noble Lord
(Castlereagh) had stated, in the course of this de-
bate,. that no such pledge was ever.entereil into by
the Irish Government. But he would put it the
Noble Lord, whether that pledge was not, at least
by implication, made to the Catholics ? Whether
the Catholics were not afforded reason to expect
emancipation ? Whethar. Mr. Pitt's speech which
was calculated to encourage that expectation, was
not circulateilby the Noble foordis orders through.
but Ireland ? Whether, in fact, the Union could
have beets carried if such an expectation had not
' been excited ? —and, if the Catholics had been ge.
nerally adverse to the measure, whether it could
have been carried ? Undet all the circumstances,
be had no hesitation in stating his opinion. that the
tlathelics were cajoled. Bitt the. must extraordi-
nary assertion was, that no OPportitnity.had been
overlooked since the littlish of conciliating the Ca-
tholic people. What wail* institute ? Its all the
times of egitatioo, and Oen 'distress,. which, since
the Union, had occurred to the 'empire, he remelts.
bered nothing of any attempt even to conciliate
the Irish. Let it not be supposed, as some Gen.
tlemen appeared to insinuate, that the advocates
of the Catholics leaked for any thing like victory
or triumph. Noohey looked only for justice
and reasonable.conCession ; Stud tot those who op-
posed them takeearv, whether, by that upposi.
lion, they were not promoting the triumph and
victory of the enemyt.—[Ilear, hear!) Pere the
'Hon. Gentleman adv tied to the foul eplutnnies
which had 'been so long circulated with regard to
the creed and character• of the Catholics, which
calumnies, indeed, had been very industriously
circulated of late, although the celebrated apostle
of those calumnies appeared to he dismissed by
Ministers. (We understood the anus' to belt)
Dr. Duigenan)° Although this thimpibn of prejudice
was consigned to silence, still his virulent spirit was
abroad, but haeltilv fur the eastseLot-assagaii-a604