The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-06-20 00:00:00

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[A laugh]—and a communication from
ment of the United States returned, A dint ~.-, _
'also, for this suspension, was now talk( .t; but ko
understood no such thing ou Tuesday : new, bowl.
s one. And
of six
thein; expirationwallone.
i "moenr;htsh,eyunwleesrse at oc
ebret ari env isvoedm eat th
what was that lasrtuiti ..sometlliate ',Why, Assnies#,
'Prance revoked ;her BOW' .-.aild Milan Degrees;
or, in the efetit. of .ber, nig; recall% litete, an- ,
less -AmeriCa made aiinnion attic with us against
le fain ce.-- W eriet, o„sexosittams. ..0 f «the -Dollars i
In•-eguitilIT''' as Aid 'a suspension? The „mer-
chants of the couittfy, Wtire Sealed; and tbat.lLonsa
was fooled, by what .he would pronounce
,a mere
4tiiiikiry;;"Joit -the' pit Or . Coveriiment-.—[Ticar,
near fl Every hour since last Tuesday had pro.
duced some new retraction by
,the Ministers, of
What was then understood to be their intention. It
now appeared that during that suspension—so to
call a thing which he knew not how to name—every
.American vessel sailing to Englund would be equally
brought into England, trot indeed for adjudication,
but till it Should be known whether America would
net as we wished her. If she did so act, then they
would beat liberty to pursue their voyage after such
delay, and difficulty,. and inconvenience ; but if
America should not accede to our proposals, then!
they were to. be proceeded against in our Prize
Courts. .And could that be called conciliation ?
Could
that be considered as an open, frank, and I
manly proceeding, or as a niggardly, stingy, shuf- I
ding, and prevaricating measure ? Aud were not
the dignity and honour of the country lore compro. 1
mised by the manner of the concession, than by.the
..
concession itself ? His objnct.in calling upon Cheat,
tention of Ministers, was to implore them not to
commit themselves by issuing illy act, which should ;
be just strong enough to do mischief, and to sacri-
fia principle, without producing one particle of good
to the country. There was yet time to retract, and j
he bad good hopes they would, for it Was evident
they.would give up any thing rather than their'
II
places. [Hear, hear ! and laughing.] He and
his friends were only asking them to give up a mea-
I
sure, and they had been doing nothing else the last
week but giving up measures. First, there was Co-
lonel Bl'Mahon, then the Barracks at Mary-le-
bonne, and afterwards those at Bristol and Liver-
pool,
and next as he thought, the Orders in Coon-
cil ; and really all those measures were exactly such '
as they should have recommended, so that the coutr-
try was going on now precisely the same as if the
two sides of the House had changed places, with ,
this remarkable feature in favour of the Noble Lord ;
and his colleagues, and most consolatory to their
feelings, that they were not banished to dark and
dreary nib.r.t of Opposition. [hear! and laugh-!
ter.] lie (lid not- wish, however, to wander into :
any thing like gaiety. 'He felt, too deeply, that by I
the measures, the prevaricating measures, which it !
was intended to adopt, they were only sowing the
seeds of new contention, new retaliations, and in:
creasedmisery for the country. How different from
the manner in which it was supposed the question
was carried on Tuesday ! As soon as it was known
that the Orders in Council were to be suspended im-
mediately, new life and vigour were infused into the
commercial world—haste and activity prevailed on
all sides, and nothing was witnessed but joy.
—lie had seen and conversed with merchants
nho had large and extensive dealings with Arne-
rica.--;One of them had transactions to the amount •
of one million sterling ; and another had actually I
prepared to export to that amount, which expor-
tatioa alone would have given employment to
100,000 individuals in the manufacturing districts of
Yorkshire. [l.o:id cries of hear, hear, hear !]
To-day, however, every act of trade was suspended;
not a shipment was going on, and all in consequence
of the explanation which had taken place last night,
on the part of the Ministers, to a body of the wit-
nesses w, .e were in town, and who waited upon
them for that purpose'—[(tear. hear!] The propo-
sition which was now to b:.• made to America was, as
he understood it, that the Orders in Council should .
be revived unless France '&l4:visited her Berlin aiid /
Milan Decrees, or, unless A:3eri...a. made common
1 cause with England against France, irance, if she did not ;
abolish them. Surely such a proposition was ;
enough to justify him in calling upon the Noble
Lord and his Colleagues, so to conduct their mea-
sures, that they might at least carry with them a de-
cisive
character. But what would be the effect of the
one they now proposed? It was making it rest alto-
gether upon the will of Bonaparte. Tnis, however, j
he could tell them, that if they hung up the opening !
of the American market upon any thing which Bona-
parte would do, it would never be opened. France :
would rather perish than do that which might better
fit us. What, in fact, was the substance of such a
measure ? We wet'e afraid of France ; we dreaded
her power; hitt she was beyond our reach to injure:
America, however, we could touch ; she was a
weaker power, and her we were resolved tritotich:
we called upon her to intercede for us, with respect
to France, and if she refused, we were determined
to make her the stifferer. Was that the way in
which a great nation like this should proceed ? . He,
called upon the Noble Lord and his Colleagues to
pursue a different course;' one that was frank, man-
ly, and dignified, and one that might accomplish the
necessary object, that of an immediate relief to the
thousands of starving manufacturers, who hung in
breathless expectation upon the event of their con-
duct. He should conclude, by giving a notice of a
motion on Wednesday next, upon the subject of the
Orders in Council, unless, before that time, any act
of the Government should appear which might sub-
stantially accomplish the suspension of those Orders.
The Honourable Member also moved, that the
Order for the call of the House shduld stand for
Thursday next.
Lord cAsnEttEA.ax observed, that he had
never listened to an argument more founded upon
misrepresentation than the one which had been used
iby the Right lion. Gentleman, towards whom he
' could safely assert, that neither he nor his colleagues
felt the slightest sentiment of gratitude for his for-
-1 bearance in not dividing the Hone on Tuesday last,
confidant us he was, that had a division taken, place,
the result *aid not have been ?hat the Hon. Mewl-.
ber so certainly anticipated; in fact, had he net felt
that it would have been and unworthy triumph, he
himself should have pressed the subject to a division.
[gen. briar! sod lavhier from the • Opposiiion.l—.

:, -.--

'~~

AN.

of at all disposed to discuss the arguments
of the - on. Gentleman, grounded, as they were,
wholly 'upon the most extraordinary misconceptlon
And misrepresentation. Ile thought any discussion
of th? subject would come much better after-the as-
ithestqc actlpf the Government wal in posvessioto of
-the nou••• but at the same time gd could not but re-
probate the system of persons who were admitted to
.interviews with official persons going immediately to
Members Ofs Parliament to communicate the result of
rowels- istterriessi, 'that' tbell•-tostee-mid eligsseeceO,l is
might be afterwards seriously brought forward in
thatiloose.--f Hear, hear !j—tiuch a practice could
only tend. to make persons its-office decline,
ther,- any conferences of that descairiett. %Wed-)
hear !]--Hewould assert also, that what had been
said by the Hon. Gentleman was nog an accurate re=
presentation of what Government intended to do.—
lie should wave all further discussion till the act of
the Government appeared, and he would let that act
speak for itself.

- Mr. PONSONBY enquired when it was likely
that official document wntild appear? and—
Lord (::ASTLEREAGII replied, it would certain-
ly appear, if not in Saturday's Gmetle, at least in
Tuesday's.
Some further conversation took place between
General Gascoigne, Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Baring,
Mr. -Wilberforce, Mr. Canning, and Mr. Rose, who
observed, that so far from the rumour of the suspen-
sion of the Orders in Council being received with de-
'tight in London, he had never witnessed such a gloom
over the metropolis in his life.—[Laughter from all
sides.] .
MR. SHERIDAN'S EXPLANATION.

Mr. IL FLTZG SKALD rose to inform the Rouse,
that he had been empowered by a Noble Earl (Yar-
mouth) to express his sincere regret that he was pre-
cluded by a severe indisposition, which confined him
to his bed, from attending his duty in his plat* that
day. He (Lord Yarmouth) could haie wished to
have been present, from the nature of the discussion,
to answer aay questions which might have been put
to him, and he did express a hope that the question
might be deferred; but the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman seeming anxious to persevere, he deemed it
due to his own honour, and due to, the llouse, to
express the regret he felt at being absent, an absence
which nothing but inevitable necessity could have
caused.

Mr. SHERIDAN.—I can vouch, Sir, for the
truth of all which the Honourable Gentleman has !
stated ; I called upon the Noble Lord in my way
down to the House, and I saw, with regret, that itl
was impossible he could be present. I did also state
to him, that as I considered that part of the ques- !
tion which related to our conversation,, as a mere
marginal thing, nothing but an episode, in respect l
to what I was most anxious to lay before the House, 1
I would abstain from it altogether; and having said
thus much, I shall proceed to explain my motives for
the motion which I intend to make. Sir, passing by
with a single word this fact, that whatevei misappre-
hensien may have arisen in the public mind upon my 1
conduct, there has' been none between me and the
Noble Lord, I shall hasten to the assertion of my
Right Honourable Friend, that I utterly disbelieved
any stich resignation as that of the Household 1
was in contemplation; and that in addition, as a
clencher, I offered to make a bet. with him.—[Fhre
Mr. Tierney said no, it was not with him.]—Well,
then, that I offered to melie.a bet with somebody,
or with any body,—[a laugh]—of five hundred
guineas upon the subject. Now, .411.. there is seme-
thing unlikely upon the" face of this story, of this
otkr of mine to bet with him, with every body, or
with any body ; I, who never bet with any body,
nor ever play for a single guinea. I wish he had
said that I offered to stake the money, and then I
am sure nobody would have believed it.—[Loud
laughter from all sides.]—However, I'll not cavil
about it: I'll give him this 6001. bet, that is,
I'll net give him the money, but I'll give him the bet.
[Laughter.]--At the same time, if every loose word
t at is uttered at the momen.—as for example—a
friend says
.te me, the Household are going to re-
sign—l reply, I'll bet you tire hundred ghittoas they
do not—if every casual evoession like teat is to be
brought down to, the thus..., and nrule a subject of
grave accusation—Lifter, I,,Nr !]—L protest I shall
talc. care how I *3SWr to a friend who meets me in
St. James's-street,.and says, How do you dis?
[4 laugh.]-I'll take three minutes to consider of
my reply : and even then, shall be shy of answering,
unless a witness is by who cau minute down my
woPds, exactly as they fall from sny lips.—[ Lima- 1
ter.]—However, I will concede to him the fact, that I
I did say, I'll bet you five hundred pounds the '
HOtisehold will not resign—five shillings would have
been mere likely—[glaugh.—but.why -did I say I
it ?—hly. Right Honourable Friend said to me, I
hearihe Honsehold'are going to resign; I replied, I'l
did not believe.% And why dial, not believe it ?
I had never beard a syllable about the intention 141
the Household, till the Noble,Lord himielf;toki it
to -me.;-and .when 'My Right Houourable Friend
spoke to me, t %new that resignation was contin-
gent upon a circumstance which, at the moment of
the bet, was more remote frOm taking place than j
ever. Is that an intelligible answer ?-43ut now,
having answered him, let me ask a question, in my I
turn, of the Rigttt Honourable Gentleman? Did I
not express ray surprise to him, that any thing could
have arisen to interrupt the•Negociations that were •
then taking place ?—And the answer or my Right
Hon. Friend was, that the Noble Lordt required that
Earl Moira should obtain from the Prince Regent i
full power to consult. with them individually in the
formation of new Admiuistration. Karl Moira wrote
to the. Noble Lords a letter, dated June 3d, in
which he offered a renewal of the Negociations,
and on the evening of that day I had the honour
of meeting my Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Pon. '
sonby) at the Duke of Bedford's. He saki to me, .
we hear, Sheridan, that you are of opinion the Ne-
gociation can be renewed between Earl Moira and
Lords Grey arid Grenville :—we do not `think so.--
I answered, perhaps the difference of opinion arises
froni Lord Moira's letter being inaccurately word-
ed; but that there Wes one thing which 1 knew,
and which they could not dispute with me, and that
was the sincere intention of TAM Moira to renew !
the negotiations. , For next day but one after that,
Lord MoiTa wrote a minute in the Wit
'of the
sake of Ikigottsl wbiok 'Nat to Wit Gtr *ad

' .1*••-•

-
^

-

and
in
the
o,,mintic When I
t-eNt:toihi.va;e3rs,aQrill
aoCafrteßoieitdbifloetersdli,ncheeretoiliriltemntriolnwoars right
Lord imn
Moira
asserrettilne,w,,
45th I certainly
the ll).au didt.?
mthnentLegattrtc, negotiations. On Omnoitrlaie
hat it
aell:Cbtred
intlit e country to my
Greythoug thought 'l
conclusive, Grenville
sincerely regretted this terminationb
owa, col,.
immediately sent all veer ~snsk,
e which . ll3 that
6.113
lion. Friend on my 4,0 (Mr. Whitbread) 11• h tea
`lie came to town, I communicated upon tiro. inf.,eilt
with my Lord Erskine, stating t!...at didilottl.:.l,--11Z
the answer of the Noble Lord-
. segociation altogether. We ,a";.5.1 let
. Erskine's : Lord. Erskine put the qt, .sti4it to
if he thought the
!breaking
of
the .
.1 CO.ICIUt.i re, ~
d
1 cnlyicHlusoliv.eisly'ltil•Kioien elf by the answer f .'..a v
1 Lords. He replied he did not: and that it:aa-a tia,
'nee,..",;,.ii,el w
! Noble F:arl wrote to the Prince aegent':lo ea:
power required by the Noble Lards. I
cc
gioaunt(citoentitov
conceive
a,
itlt ibeit,:edo
sinssmiobtiltlcs,ea
dismissal
oifiroteibi lei rt thii:ekn)c,t.,itsd, rirldlititlr,t.e.:.euhlitti.
I that I found, with the deepest regret, next'd"at:wrlilhiliota/-t
1 dill
thathi(el
iniseoigta re)
' but that the negociation would have:eb:e.:eunurailtescioiri.
to a successful isasaubyeu:ttabrmiedoBvtihtnbegnliffrso
jtr
&ll:lei:aid of its (t''''t
askingri
)eloreapcl iwee
da was on
nothing,wmDr lbroa.rti
wcaasititioint:e done
an hilei ththeldllomus:Pth:
Lard Liverpool was appointed Prime Minister.—
istilNtilp otiius
.iisrwrrt
00
tia,gpibleli
irettGrf:oster.esloGo:
ml
entvoivlce.aeditsin,hiholyioefiutiniod)et
was
opposite,
rcoaetis.
is)slotpli
tecoly,
treasoi
Right
dtial
animosity
tdiffi eoiclwwrhnkooot
(vs,
hutishi•oli
to:::
grmordb
ei:iisotbsaf4iiuocit.
Islapre_iarotriditni
instd,:tel
aati 1
tttehe:
al
len::
1 said the other night, that if my advice had been fol-
lowed,
was I influenced by the vote of this House, by which
ea
d had, ase it t hey
et
mobtoh:i
them was,
waga.
against
thatsret , h
principle,
lye i
s).lcer,e cashiered.taliva,t)w of
f.jAfciyos objec-
tion
i-laurrsas arrayed
to the Catholics of Ireland, %hid!, I think, awl
m mustpi
r.
alwayse
Lrc
i(.,ha
think,e er 5.3 will
s,e ii ti a I to
never the safety of
tobithis
Empire.
to any administration that opposes the question of
Catholic Emancipation ; I will not consent to re.
cetve a furlough upon that particular question, eves
though a Ministry were carrying every other that I
wished., I could wish to see negociatiou entered
ups:tn.:with fairness and sincerity towards the Catho.
lies, with concessions on both sides, so as to make it
popaiar in this country, and that no alarm may bi
created. I. am not one of those who would via
absolute tinconditienal concession to the Calliolici
let proper guards and secui ities be provided; and Lt
! negociation be commenced with them upon a basis of
I sincerity ; but my doubt is, that this ilegoc:atiwa
cannot be carried on by those, who, in their huarN,
are hostile to the cause. Proposals from such red
never be adequately received by the Catholics ; bat
if_they proceeded from persons, whose intontions
I they knew to be fair and open, Without any trick or
fraud, then we should see them met with correspond-
'
log fairness and integrity. Mr. Sheridan assured the
, Right lion. Gentlemen opposite, that in using the
egression alluded to, lie had meant no disrespect
'or incivility to them. He addressed himself more
i.partieularly to the Noble Lord (Castlereagh), awl
trusted that he would agree witn him, that the sooner
the claims of the Irish Catholics could now be
granted the better. When it was seen that Mi.
tasters were giving up other things to which they
were as much pledged, as they had ever been to re-
ristance to the, Catholic Claims—that theytiad con.
ceded the poi..i relative to the Barracks—that
they had agreed to a suspension of the Orders in
Council—a hen they were seen to have yielded in
these respects, he hoped they would not make the
Catholic tuestion the only exception, but would
give it up also. If the Noble Lord and his Col-
leagues were content to do all the paltry and mi.tute
busi less of office, and to adopt all the surges ions
•of cios.. who were generally described as t::!ir
opponents, he confessed that he, for one, could
not figure a more complete coalition. It was im.
possible that his Right Honourable Friends on the
• side of the House on which be sat could object to
such a mode of proceeding; and the country must
surely, at length:Confess, that they had got a most
broad-bottomed ;Administration. When Gentlemen
talked of a strong and vigorous Administration,
lhe _ conceived that they must mean, an Adrainis.
iLtratien -compelled of men who drew together, aid
I.coneurred in great ' leading principles; but ahem
i-
•au Administration was composed of persons wilts
' entellained contradictory opinions, however able
l the individuals might be, he could not look for
s 1
;Ist
aretivoigntl.r orntemhdliide.icioottifildikeencecoitivitisouncsh
beantwAeediiinimniest:
lof coullicting . opinions. Looking to a man whom
Ihe loved more than he had ever loved, or ever could
rote any pther political chantater—one of the greatest
• •
i
and best men whom this country had ever seen, and
whose foss the country had now so much cause to
deplore—he meant Mr. Fox ;he could not but re-
gret more than any other act of that Honourable
Gentleman's life, his coalition with Lord North,
believing, as be• did, that the mind of the country
had never recovered from that shock, as far as his
Right lion. Friend was concerned. lie was of
opinion, that another Coalition, which it was ati.
(Mn:•
Pitt),, would alio have done much mischief;
tie;mmpittedlemtaonbarnindg
nantuhtebr etowfeehni
st the
oslairmi
r.e
IRoigp
ihmt
t!leo;
and impressed with this idea, he had One all in his
power to support the Noble Lord (Sidmouth) against
their united attacks. lie had done so, from finding
' hi all the measures and condect of that Noble Lord,
i and from what he had uniformly observed in him,
, that he was impressed with a conviction of doing
irliagal i t
said. [ :is
I The Noble Lord alluded to bad done more to re-
'tau() tghhis.l7"Nolbilee Lowurd
Ithe country—and more to revivify the Constitution,
establish the finances—more.to inerease the
Minister
sroecrreyivedto
withsee whata
snee lrie.
then in a most
forested state, than any
we had had many years. [A laugh.] •He should
I like to hear what he stated' disproved, rather than _
an-
swered by a sneer: In speaking of the formation of
remarking,
the Administration, he could not help
; that the House of Coternoas on one, lay, by a is
' jority of two, found that the thee Administration est
its Uzi cad Wool ask a sablaquast day, doe >l
force of
et