The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-06-22 00:00:00

THE STATECNIAN.

had been usual upon a general change of the Go.
eennient. If they could have believed the rearms-
tion to he about to take place, they would have ;been
perfectly- satisfied, and would have accepted the ar-
ra ngemen t in the manlier moat agreeable to•the Prince,
and to the feelings of the individuals concerned in it.
Lord Moina declared, that no insinuation of the
kind alluded to, had ever slipped from him. He never
suspectea that there was in their minds any thing so
hilarious to the country, as a feeling of disrespect to
the Prince. He differed, however, in the construc-
tion of the minute, and referred to the words of his
answer, that " it would be impossible for him.
( Lord ifoira), however, to concur in making the
",exercise of this power positive and indispensible ;"
and argued that the previous conversation must have
rendered those words necessary. His objection was
to the establishment of a previous and indis-
'tensible condition, which might tie up his hands,
and those of any other colleagues he might ac-
quire, from discussing that question afterwards.—
It was secured by the full powers lie had, that the
removal of those officers might take place if the pub-
lic servile should be thought to require it. He had
always objected to removals in the Household, and
could refer to a letter of his own, published 15 years
ago, as a proof that such was then his 'opinion*.
He put the argument to their feelings, and gave it as
his opinion that the removal of those officers would
have been an unnecessary humiliatiou of the Prince,
and would set the seal of office to accredit every
ribald tale of scandal that had been circulated in this
town. The report of the intended resignations by
certain Lords of the Household had been regarded
by him as an impatient ebullition of heat, which did
not bind men to act upon it. He considered it as a
I menace to deter him from bringing forward into
Administration Lords Grey and Grenville. if he
had known it more authentically, ho would have
kept it back from them out of pure respect, from a
persuasion that they would scorn'to give up the as-
sertion of a principle, and avail therns.lves of the
resignation as a subterfage to smooth their way to
power.
Lord ERSKINE regretted that he had not foreseen
the possibility of a difference in the construction pf
the minute, or he would have taken care that hit
Noble Fricads should have clearly understood eack
other. He did not, however, think their difference
very considerable. Lord Grey and Lord Grenville
must have adverted to all the circumstances of lag
year and of the present, and of the manner in which
the proposal came to them, and it was incumbest
upon them to see that they had ail the securities that
had been usual upon changes or Administration, to
enable them to carry on the functious of government
with effect. The removal of the Household was to be
part of the new arrangement, and could not be pur-
posed 1,
to take place till the new Ministry was formed.
He uuderstood that the first act of the new Adminis-
tration must necessarily be the removal of those offi-
cers. The question was proposed from excess of
candour, because it was known that Lord Moira
had strong objections to it. Lord Moira had the
power to make or to refuse to make the Administra-
tion,
and from the words of his answer, that 46 he
CI could not CONCUR in making the exercise qf this
cc
power positive end indispensible in tile formation
" of the Administration," he agreed that he thought
Lord Moira must have understood, not that the re-
moval was to be proposed as a previous stipulation to
the Prince, but as a point stated to his Lordship as
to be a fundamental and necessary part of the new,
arrangement when it should be formed. The Noble
Earl (Lord Moira) objected to it upon two grounds,
that it would give countenance to the calumnies
which had been circulated with respect to the Prince,
and also that it would encourage the slanders against
those whom his Royal Highness was particularly
bouud to protect. That with the knowledge, that
such removals were to be the first act of the Admi..l
nistration, he could not concur in forming it, and he I
therefore put an eilirto the conversation.
Lord 'Moms asked Lord Erskine, if he had not
himself inserted the s ord " indispensible" to mark
the sense more strongly ?
Lord Easel NE, in reply, contended, that the word
indisp:nsible" added nothing to the meaning con-
veyed by the word "positive."

Lord IlEtnroaT rose to confirm what had been
stated in auother place by his Noble Friend Lord
Yarmouth, that in a conversation long prior to the
interruption of the negociations. the GreA Officers
of the Household had declared their determination
to resign, if Lords Grey and Grenville came into the
Administration; and that thopgli he held an office
much inferior in consideration, yet dear to him as it
placed him near the person of the Prince, whom he
loved and revered, he resolved to resign also.
_ _ _

Earl SPENCER said that heentertained the same opi-
nion with his Noble Friends, that it was a vital and
constitutional principle in the formation of an Ad-
-1
ministration, that It should have the full, fair, and
evident confidence of the Crown. That if any
~b4hune attached to them either air haw ing proposed this
question prematurely, or having persisted in it too
I pertinaciously, he mast take a share of that blame
to himself. lie not only concurred in their views,
but had strongly advised the measure. For in a con.
versation with. Lord Moira, some days 'before his
Noble Friends met uim, he had entered into a full dis-
cussion of the question, and heard all his arguments,
and knew the extent and strength of the objections
Lord Moira felt to the removal of the Household,
which lie himsel f had considered as absolutelynecessary.
He thought it his duty to apprise his Noble Friends
of Lord . Moira's feelings and objections, and that
with the knowledge that his opinions were directly
contrary to theirs, it was indispusibly necessary
that they should bring forward that question in the
first instance. That the wish to urge that point in a
manner at all offensive to the Prince, had• not been
attributed tOliim by any body from whom the impu-
tation
was'worthy of notice. That to have made the
usual changes in the great Offices of the Household,

* Inn letter written by Furl Moira to Colon M'Mahoo,
dated June 25 1791, when he had been applied to by some no-
party men in the Hoax of Commons to try to foru an Adminis-
tration, to the ex:lotion of Mr. Fox and Mr. Pitt, the Noble
lord wrote as follows : Of my friends I demanded this con-
" dition, that no removal should he made in the Household,
" Post-Office, Mint; or any' other department not immediate'y
" connected with ininilterial functions!" The opinion of the
Noble. Earl, then Tare, on the subject of the Household, was
known, n pod reason for giving him the full powers that MSC
refused to tie Marquis Wellesley.

1,0 from tending to confirm any rumour injurious
to The Prince, would, in his opinion, have had a di-
rectly contrary effect—and that, in his opinion, to
have retained them contrary to the usual and esta-
blished practice, was most likely to create such an
impresiiion on the public mind.
Lord GRENVILLE stated, that they distinctly ex-
pressed their opinion, that in the consideration of
I the arrangements of the Government, the changes to
, ' be made in the Household should be submitted to
!the Prince Regent, not as a preliminary point, but
as a part of those arrangements subject to his Royal
Iligliness's approbation. The general principle for
; which they had contended, of being at liberty to con-
; eider any points which they judged useful for the
Prince's service, had been admitted in the outset of the
I conversation. They knew that they differed from Lord
i Moira upon few points, but upon the question of the
! changes in the Household, they knew his opinion to
be different from theirs, and candour required that
they should state that question, and bring it forward.
No man could believe he could have a wish to de-
' grade the Prince ; he appealed to the whole of his pub-
lic life as a proof of his uniform desire to uphold the
honour of the Sovereign, which he considered as most
important and essential to the interest of the coun-
try. He indignantly disclaimed the imputation that
had been thrown out against them. It now appeared
that the great Officers of the Household had enter-
tained an opinion, that upon a total change of system
it became them not to hold their situations ' • and he
could not now doubt that they had intended to re-
sign. Ile must approve and praise the propriety of
that resolution, but must observe that they thereby
distinctly recognized the principle stated in this
Paper, " that the connection of the great Officers of
" the Court with the political Administration should
• " be clearly established in its first arrangement."
He must claim the benefit of the fact, that he
was utterly ignorant of suck resolution. He had
iujleed heard many and contradictory rumours,
upon which it would have been impossible to act.
Notwithstanding what Lord Moira had said upon
that subject, he must consider it as most unfortu-
nate, T that intention to resigtt'svas entertained, that
the communication of it was withheld from those
who, if they had possessed that knowledge, would
have been reliesed from the difficulty, the existence
of which precluded all further progress in the con- I
versatien. Ile must contend, that The propriety of ;
their conduct could not be argued or decided upon
there ; that every public man must be at liberty to I
judge for himself, when the acceptance of office is
proposed to him, whether there may exist any cir-
cumstances which, in his opinion, may prevent him !
from renderin,, his services useful to the Prince and
to the country, and that he is not to .be called into
question for acting upon such feelings or opinion.
The CumsclLLon concluded the conversation, by
deprecating discussions of that nature, as tending to
embarrass the Prince in the fortnatiomof All future
Administrations, and conjured the House to put an
end to them for the present by adjourning.

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TIIE STATESMAN.

LONDON:
MONDAY, JUNE 22, 1812.

The Princess Charlotte packet, with Mails from
Malta, &c. only seven days from Gibraltar, arrived
at Falmouth on Saturday, by which we have received
Gibraltot Chronicles to the 31st ult.:—

CARR ALTAR, MAY 30.,

On Thursday General BALLASTEROS put himself
in motion, and was yesterday in Übrique.—(Gibral-
tar Chronicle, May 30.)

MESSINA, Also 1.
The Royal Family are to go to Malta, leaving-.
only one of, the young children of the HEREDITARY
PRINCE, and a Regency is to be formed for the Go.
-vernmeut of the islaud.—(Some Paper.)

PALERMO, MAT 5.
Admiral FREEMANTLE yesterday came in upon his
return from Tunis. Ile has prevailed upon the Tu-
nisian Government to conclude a treaty with the Si-
cilian for all the time that we shall train in this
island as friends, and brought back 300 Sicilian
slaves, who have been ransomed, and some of whom
had been 20 years in Barbary.
('ARTHAGENA, MAY 21.
Capt. ADAM, of the Iferincible, with the Terma-
ganl sloop of war, and 300 Spanish soldiers, pro-
ceeded from hence on the 10th inst. for Almeira, at

the same time that Georral FREYRE made a movement
upon Baza. The French evacuated Almeira, and the
Spaniards landed without dpposition. ,They have
destroyed the fortifications, and Capt: ADAM is re-
turning here with a quantity of sulphur, lead, and
some grain, which he found in the place. That port
can no longer be a hiding place for French privateers.
General FREYRE has been obliged to fall back 'to'
Baza on account of a scarcity of provisions for his
troops. General ROCIIE has bad a most gallant af-
fair with '2OOO French troops under General IlAusex,
near Alicant. They came to levy contributions.—
' Generalltocur went out to meet them, killed add
wounded 210, and brought in .53 prisoners, among
whom are seven Officers. This place is in a 'perfect.
state of security through the exertions of that most
active °dicer) General Rosi.—,{Saint Pape.)

We have extracted the following from the Dublin
Papers which arrived this morning

AGGREGATE CATHOLIC NILETING,
LITTLE THEATRE FISHAMELC SfRILET, THURiDAY, JUNE 18.
Ai heretofore, the Aggregate Catholic Moctinc.
was numerously attended, and the thousands of Gen.,
tlemen, possessing landed and commercial property,
who rallied once more to save their Country in this
hour of danger and dismay, may be truly said to
represent the wisdom and the strength of five millings
of the People.

Lord FINGALL having taken the Chair, his Lord.
ship made some prefatory observations upon the pur.
poses of the Meeting, after which

The Honourable Mr. BARNW ALL mo►ed, that the
Delegates who were appointed to present the Ad.
dress from the Catholics of Ireland, should make a.
Report of their proceedings, which being unanimously
agreed to,

Mr. HusssY, on behalf of the Delegation, ad.
II
dressed the Meeting to the following effect
discharge of the Commission with which we were
intrusted, we proceeded to London, inoly order Highness
r first
il pu
to
:ghn:,carryhrse
recommend into effect the object of our mission.ibis R,
a ou
) pose was to take such measures as were necessary
troßpoiresesenßt
REGENT, praying
dpdrareyssingto
would be pleased tothaths Royal
to Parliament the
state of oar claims ; and a letter having
e
R ,ohb yfi
Addressos
msLLaonr
Lordship,
State for
hoai Fpap tr,r4eo
;ac theecAncs LtoLmtHo?
accompanied
aomn
his Mer.
edßlr
ab.
nyyßda:
Department, Dapl ,
eedi i thena etstsoas
requestingnt Secretary
been
if::wgohrmaidltthteahatnnoet
know when it would suit the leisure of his Royal
Highness to receive it ; and his Lordship further
requested to be admitted to an audience of his
Royal Highness, as we were desirous of such an
opportunity to represent the true state of onr coun-
try to his Royal Highness ; and were anxious to re-
move the hostile ideas towards ourselves and our
country, which, no doubt, the most pernicious se-
cret influence had been exerted, to instil into the mind
of his Royal aighness. And although we did not
conceive that his Royal Highness would be advised to
refuse to listen to our just complaints, yet our hum-
ble application was rejected; and Mr. RYDER in his
reply stated, that the Address would be received by
the REGENT, in the usual manner, at the Levee, and
said nothing of our request to be admitted to an audi-
ence. The Address was accordingly presented, and
although we were aware that it was not usual to re-
Aura any answer to an Address presented in that
' manner, yet Lord FINGALL wrote a note to Mr.
RYTOER, requesting to be informed if his Royal High.
tuns had been pleased to make any commuuication upon
the subject; in answer to which Mr. RYDER stated,
that he had net received any commands from his Royal,
Highuess relative to it. We therefore having pre-
sented' the Address, knew nothing farther about it.—
, A Petition to Parliament was the next object of our
' mission ; to frustrate it, every effort was made by
the then, or I should have said, by the present Mi.
nisters. The cry of bigotry was again attempted to
Ibe raised. Placards, in similar terms to what we
read in the Castle Press, were posted throughout the
city—and ' No Popery' was again brought forward:
I but it was brought forward in vain.—lt was an.
swered by the Corporation of the City of London;
lit was answered by your fellow-subjects, the Pro-
testants of England, who are anxious for your suc-
cess; and, therefore, if you have failed, entertain
no prejudice of the people of Euglaud, it was not
they, it was to the pernicious counsels of secret in-
, fluence which stands in the way of your Emancipa-
tion, and which is now at work, to defeat your :
hopes for eter, unifier the treacherous mask of " do- '
ing something for you." Mr. HUSSEY then pro-
ceeded, at great length, to detail the circumstances
attending the discussions in Parliament. He stated
the calumnies with which it was pursued in its pro-
gress, and, as an instance, stated, that when the
account of the assassination of Mr. PERCEVAG
reached the House of Peers, a Noble Lord (an Irish.
man) was heard to say, 44 this comes of bringing
forward the Catholic Question," as if BELLisoatst
had committed thihorrid crime upon our account.

Mr..Husser commented with much force upon the
speech of-llr W. Scorr, and other Members who
had spoken against the Catholic Claims. He spoke
in the strongest terms how highly the Catl.olics aro
indebted to Lord DONOUGIIMORE, and Mr. PON'
SONEY, by whose advice the conduct of the El.ge-
gates were in a great degree regulated ; and con-
cluded by calling the attention of the Meeting to the
exalted conduct of Lords GREY and GRENVILLE
upon a recent occasion.
Mr. FINN proposed the Thanks of the Catholics
of Ireland to the Noblemen and Gentlemen who had
acted as their Delegates in London, which was car-
ried unanimously.
Mr. O'GoitmaN then entered 41711 a report of the
proceedings of the Catholic Board since the 11th of
My last, and concluded by saying, that with burst-
big hearts the Catholics must at present withdraw
their confidence from Lord MOIRA.
-Lord KILLEEN then addressed the Meeting, and,
after some pointed remarks, which excited the most
enthusiastic applause, he begged leave' to read the
following Resolutions, which, he said, had,obtained
the concurrence of the late Board. He observed,
that the language was strong, but not violent ; but
he thought it right to. mentiorr, that the day was at
length arrived; when it would be criminal not to

ate language suitable to the wants of the People, and
the cause of the Empire.:— . I

Resotved, That we de forthwith renew our humble, but
earnest application by Petition to the Legislature, praying the
total and unqu allied repeal of the Penal Laws which aggrieve
the Catholics of these Realms, Infringe the sacred rights of Re-
lizious Liberty, and endanger the existence of tbe Bridal Em-
pire.
c 2, That the charge of preparing such Petitions, and of carr.
ing them to be duly presented without delay, he confided to
tbe individuals (possessing the confidence of the Catholler of
Ireland) named at the last Aggregate Meeting of the Catisella of
Ireland. _ _

3. That the said Persons arc sa nominated, not to represent
the People of those Realms, or any portion thereof, but merely
for the purposes, solely and esclusively, already prescribed,
and for no other purpose whatsoever.

4. That from authentic documents now before us, We learn
with deep disappointment and anguish, how cruelly the promised
boon of Catholic freedom has been intercepted, by the fatal
:,itcherq of an unworthy secret infiuence, hostile to our Esirest
hopes, spurning alike the sanctions of public and private virtue,
the demands of personal gratitude, and the sacred obligations of
plighted honour.
5. That to this impure source we trace, but too distinctly,
our baffled hopes and protracted servitude—the arrogant inva-
sion of the undoubted Hight of Petitioning—the acrimony ;II
Illegal State Prosecutions—the surrender of Ireland to prolonged
oppreaion and insult- -apd the many experiments, equally piti-
fdAnd perilous, recently practised upon. the habitual passive._
ness of an ill-treated, but high-spirited People.
6. That cheerless indeed would be air prospects, and faint
our hopes of success, were they to rest upon the constancy of
Courtiers, or the pompous patronage of men, who can coldly
sacrifice the feelings and interests of millions ai the shrine of
perishable power; or, deluded by the blandishments of a too
lusurium Court, can hazard the safety of a People for ill-timed
courtly compliment. The pageants of a Court coma:add sot
our respect,—our great came rests upon the immutable founda-
tions of troth, and justice, and reason.—Equal constitutional
rights, unconditional,. unstipulated, unpurchased by'dishonour,
are objects dear to our hearts.—They consist with wisdom, vir-
tue, humanity, true religion, and unaffected honour; and can
never be abandoned by men who deserve to he free.
7. That for the complete attainment of this, oar constitutional
object, we firmly confide in our own persevering exertions, in
the enlightened wisdom and growing liberality of our Fellow-
Citizens (recently and gloriously exhibited in their Petitions to
Parliament in our behalf); and, above nil, in that overruling
l'rovidence which -presides over the destinies of Nations, and
permits not the oppression of man by his fellow-creature a ith
impunity.

8. That, turning with disgust from the gloomy wreck of Poblic
Character, presented in recent events, we recognize with
esteem and admiration the truly noble elevation. of sentiment
which has distinguished Lords flaw and Gucci/n.12, and the
other Personages who, with them, lace stood .tloof from the al-
lurements of intrigue, and maintained the high station of rigid

lndependenee. We respect their recent eonduct as dictated by
- sound wisdom, by well-founded motion, and by an honest ant-
lety as well for the secure attainment of great public benefits,

•
as for the conservation of their personnl honour.
9. That we have found in the Earl of Donotiottatonza steady,
earnest, and intrepid Advocate of our ffights --an ever-faithful
Sentinel of our interests—an undaunted and judicious assertor
of truths awfully important to our country. That the flight

Bon flamer (ilea's-Tax has eloquently sustained our applica-
tion to the House of Commons, and has again deserved our c er-
nal gratitude, and that our Chairman be requested to traustuit
these our sentiment, in attitaHe terms.

10. That we have viewed with inexprewible pie:lsere and ad-
miration the generous exertions of our Fellow-Citizens of other
persuasions in our behalf, their solicitude in subscribing and re.
crimmmtling Petitions to Parliament for our relief, their spon-
taneous support at public nseetings—we hope to merit their bo.
nourable con6•!ence by a continuance of the same tempenste,bat
Arm conduct, which has already conciliated their esteems and,
though we cannot, in sincerity, proffer those securities or ar-
rangements (amounting, if practicable, to the new evelmilige or
one species of servitude for anothen.yet we must e`•errfully ten-
der to their kind acceptance the only equivalent in our power,
our warm affections and lasting gratitude—our oaths of allegi.
anee—our past loyalty and merits—nor present willingness to
assist (whenever by law permitted) in the arduous enterprise of
saving the sinking vessel of tbe.State.

11. That from recent obsorvation of political duplicity, we
feel it necessary to recommend most earnestly to all Catholic
Freeholders throoghont Ireland, steadily to resist the preten-
sions of any Candidates, who shall hesitate to pledge themselves
publicly to the uniform support of Catholic Emancipations or
who shall have lent, or are likely to lend, their support to any
Administration, founded in itaolerance, and hostile to the full en-
joymeot of Religions Liberty.

_
12. That the exponces, unavoidably attendant upon the con-
duet of Catholic Petition+, and the defence of the invaded Rights
of Petitioniug. call for the liberal aid of our Fellow-country-
men, and we collide to the public spirit and zeal of the Catholic
Body, throughout every district, for ample peenniary snpport.
13. That throe our Resolutions he published in the Public
Prints—four times in four of the Loudon Newspapers, and six
times in six of the Dublin Newspapers.
14. That the most cordial gratitude of the Catholics of Ireland
is due to the Author of the " Statement of the Penal Laws."
lately published—a Work in which we recognize all the ac-
curacy of great legal knowledge, combined with the classic
elegance of the Scholar, and the profound observation of the
thilosopher.

Counsellor O'GonaList begged it might be distinct-
Iy undfrsto )1, that any arrangementi or conditions
which might be connected with Mr. CANNING'S Mo-
tion in the House of Commons, would have no in-
fluence on the conduct of the Catholics of Ireland, as
they were determined to obtain their Freedom un-
aontlitionally.—[Loud applause.] •
A Resolution then passed for callinglnother Ag-
gregate Meeting on this day fortnight., and that the
Board, thus authorised to prepare the Pititiens,
should have the same ready for the consideration of
the Meeting on that day.

Thanks were returned, with acelsuuation, to Lord
Ft NG ALL.

Lord KILLEEN, lion. Mr. BanwaraLt, and Conn-
atltors O'GORMAN, O'CONNELL) and Fumay, se-
verally spole at great length.

All the Resolutions were put, and carried by ae-
clasuation.—The Meeting aMourned.

It was the understanding of every man in the coun-
try that Mr. BROUGHAM consented to cast a veil
over the frail standing, of Ministers, on Tuesday
night last, by abitaiuing from a division of the
'louse on the question of the Orders in Council, on
the promise of Lord CASTLEREAGH, that a Predates'.
tion should be immediately issued, declaratory of
the total abrogation of this ruinous system—a sys-
tem that, to the end of time, will mark' the igne-
nnoe, weakness, and folly of the councils of the
nation, which, for 'so long a period, could permit
the er4toilics of mums is, every ssme ito

. , ~: