The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-01-26 00:00:00

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MK- ST AT FA MAN

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(lilt didhim the greiteet homier,. determined to
st and by hia'Sovereigii ; and so well del he know
his integrity and *billetes? that be would give him
his utmost support, and would not be one of
those who would at any time go into a systematic
change in the Administration of Government.
As to the lion. Beretta's crime of omissions, he
should only say very shortly, that he voted for
the Address, because he thought it went only to
pledge the House generally, and not to bind
any one to support the late measures ; and
against the Amendment, because it was obviously
a prejudging of Ministers. Though ho admitted
there was it failure in the Expedition to the
Scheldt, e which deserved the consideration of
the Hayti% he would not pledge himself even to
go into thesubject. He differed widely with those
whit thought the late expeditions subjects of utipe-
ralleled calamity and disgrace (Hear, hearr, hear!)
Ile understood the plan originally was to have
pushed up the Scheldt to Antwerp, suit -to carry
that place by a coup-de-rnain, which he believed
had been prevented by unfavourable weather ; and
the only question was, whether they could or could
not have got up sooner than they did? So far, cer.
ttinly, one part of ths Exiseditioe -bed failed ; the
other had seceeedvd. s antirsurattle Gentlemen
1).144.41k as lightly as they pleased *beet the de.
ifruction of Flushing.; but did, they know, that'
-the bseira th.et had been destroyed was capable- or,
holding 22 sail of the line ? Was it nuthiti; to
have done this ? (Mar, hear !) But was there
soy disgrace in this ? (deer, hear !) These were
the exaggerated expressions and observations he
had alluded to, slid he was sorry that any such
had been uttered in the House of Commons. He
then adverted to the army in Spain ; spoke highly
in favour 9f Lord ‘Vellingtoies Splendid military
talents and extraordinary courage and activity ;
denied that any disgrace attached
,to that Expedi-
tion, and lamented that Lord Wellington should
have b .eit set up, .as he I air. Y.) thought, as a
mark fur e. mere and attack ; and if -teat' dispusi.
lion was 'tot illscuniiiiiied by the •leatling emirate.
tors or that •Lleuse, and of elite country, it might
go far towards oar ruin. He alluded particularly
to General Tarletmes having called his ;centime
rash, and spoken in terms ut censure on a brother
°Seer not present to defend himself.
Sir JOHN SEBRIGH 1' said, ho should not
have obtruded himself on the House, but for some
uhaervatione which had fallen from the Bight Hoe.
Gentleman who hail just sat down. That Right
Hoe. Gentleman could net wish inure than he did
to sue the. G,..t.ruineto t of the country properly
sepportiel. No man cutlet be more desirues then
he %Vivi te give it every assistance in his power ;
bet to the present awful crisis of this country and
of Europe, he thought his Majesty's present Mi.
nisees totally incapable of carrying on the go-
vernment of the country, by a due discharge of
those important duties necessarily attached to it.
Ile gave the Right Hon. Gent. who was at the head
of the Administration, full credit fur his integrity,
but that was not all that was required. Ili asldi.
titre to integrity, there should ho a determination
to du strict justice in every department, and he
1 could have wished that he had evened, saactionste't
and used his power to •forward inquiry. Lie was
sorry to hear of dissensions having taken place in
the Cabinet : nothing could bo inure injurious to
the interests of the country. When he heard of a
mutiny in any regiment, he always lookeil• to the
Commanding Officer as the person responsible for
all its conseteienees, which must have resulted from
his inctentien to discipiue, and the due exertion of
the authority entrusted to hen. lie, fur his own
part, thought all the late failures entitled to the
term '6 disgrace." If an Admiral, with a large and
preEaseful fleet entrusted to his command, was to
amuse hinged( with attacking a few smuggling
boats, he should think it was a disgrace to the
fleet ; and when he looked to the übjeet of merely
taking Welcheren,. he could term it no- oilier thaw
en absurd expedition. Had they even taken Ant•
were and the 12 sail of the line, about which they
made so much noise, it would' nut* have deserved
the praise of tins country, when contrasted with the
immense ex pence that attended it. As a diversion
, in favour of Austria, it would not have drawn a
single 'nee from ,the banks of the Danube. Ile
ridiculed. the idea of destroying the Basin at Flush..
ine. With reset ct to the glorious battle of Tale-
Ivera, as itetiad been frequently called, lie week!
say a few words. There were two glories *each-
.ed to an artily, the glory of the steelier, and the
glory of the officer. The gluey of the soldier con.
anted in patiently suflerine under fatigue, strictly
&klieg the commands of his officers, and cou-
raeeuusly discharging his duty in the field of bat.
tie; this glory had been almost uniformly main.
cawed by the soldiers in the British army, with.
out any instaece of its being materially injured..
Tet: glory of the officer was, in taking care fur the
due Provisioning of the soldiers limier his coin.
limed, of keeping up us exact end sit ict ilis.
cipline, and of keeping his courage subservient
to sound reason feel true judgment. To Lord
Wellington, splenithe talents and great bravery
were universally allowed. It retnainee, therefore,
to see how lie had used them in the battle of Ta.
laveca. It ought to be one of the first objects-of
a grcat.General, never to expend ur waste his own
courage, or that of the army under his command,
except in cases where its exertion is likely to be
of must essential service: When Lord Wellington
moved forward, ho couldeout but have known
that he must either have beat the French, or that
they would. twet him. He did beat the French,
and whit was the result ? Did he derive from his
I glorious victory any real or substantial advantage,
either to,his own army, or to that of our ally a None
i whatever.
.Ile was obliged immediately after it
to make a eetreate—to lease his •hospital; and all
his sick and wounded, to the mercy of the enemy.
,
Had he suffered cowl judgment and sober roue'',
to prevail, he might, before he slvanal, have)
ascertained what he bails to depend on from his,
Allies, and have avoided as useless deelay of Brie
' btilsoho'd."Loager'da;:vi canue:gliAutinc:ll.4:t ‘t.irintwi;7ld4;f hllairliticolt
vcred himself with the brightest ttesrels•; yes, his
Nunes had inured the very esso:cirof laurel, fur
' they bad produced -laurel...water, which was one
of the sisungesl and atom Wight pe4pos • imowa

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in the world. He next adverted ft; this late ex.
•ttiro,aioi,riia
.iltni
tat
d e
disposal
ofaelor
pltahcese present, Aiftisinistra.
which hi'said had
been offered in a most scandalous manner, and had
bee* must universally refitted. The Right Hutt.
Goet. who spoke last had extolled the loyalty and
courage of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer fur standing by his. Sovereign, when
others had refused to co-operate with his Adminis.'
tration. Did the Right Honourable Gentleman
mean to say, that he was thereby entitled to an
exclusive right to the favour of the Crown ? He
(Sir T. Sebright) would yield to no man in Joyal-
ty ; but he feared that the word loyalty had of late
been so much prostituted to party purposes, that
it would lose great pert of its former consequence.
No man had a right to identify himself with his
Majesty, and from that word loyalty being au
much misused, he was afraid much harm might be
produced. It was clear to him that the present
was a utmost incapable and imbecile Administration ;
and the vital interests of the Empire imperiously
demanded that a new one should be formed. Of
whom that Administration should consist, it was
not for him to say ; but the situation and welfare
of the country required, that it should be coin.
posed of men capable of contending with Bona-
parte; of men who would actively and immediate.
sly ftirward inquiry into the abuseA existing in the
isdintry, and adopt such measures as would pre.
vent their future recurrence. Thinking thus, he felt
, it at present a duty which he owed to himself and
to the country, to do all in his power to remove the
present Mihisters—not, ho declared, from any
personal dislike he had to all or any of them,
but front s thorough conviction that t hey were
nut capable of administering the affairs of the Go-
vernment. If they could acquire any accession
of strength which would in his mind render their
efforts . likely to prove efficacious, he would still
support them. As to what was called political
consistency in that House, he could not but
laugh at it, as the very essence of inconsistency.
lie would always support an efficient Adminis.
tration, whose measures appeared to hint to have
for their object the public welfare, let the men
who composed it be whom they might. He was
sorry to hear the allusions which had been made
to. the character and conduct of Mr. Pitt ; as to
that illustrious Statesman, he thought himself ill.'
&teed far belts; at that moment speaking in that
!louse, and fur the possession of every foot of
land lie was then able to call' his own. Much
as he despised popular favour,. he was afraid the
vote of the night before last, would be of mis.
cliievous tendency. In saying what he had dune,
he had delivered the genuine sentiments of his
mind ; and though they might not be alioweil to
be those of a wise man, he could assure the House
they were those of an honest one.
Mr. WHITBREAD rose and observed, that be
had an Ameutlment to oiler to one part of the Ad-
dress which had been just read to the House. • In
proposing his Amendment, it was nut his intention
to go into the various topics which had been intro-
duced into the preceding debates, nor to anticipate
any of the points which would become the subject
of disCussion to-morrow. The matter which
ho was.thee to submit to the notice of the (louse,
ho was induced to bring forward In consequence
of what he h,,a said on a foimer night. Ott that
occasion he had declared his regret that the Ad-
dress contained no pledge on the part of• the
house, either as to the propriety or the necessity of
the adoption of ally economical reforms. It ap-
!'peareil to him, in the present situation of the cone.
'try, when the subject was taxed, though not altoge-
ther, yet almost to the full extent which it wits pos.
Bible to bear; when he saw the great profuainn
of all the departments of the State, and the pro-
digal waste of money iu the public expenditure;
when he saw the Right lion. Gentleman (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) surrounded by men
whom he thought prop& to employ, and "who
were known not to be' friends to economical re-
form ; and more - particularly, without meaning
.iity disrespect to the individual, when he saw an
Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Wharton) who had been
Chairman of the Committee of Ways and
Means, and afterwards, as a Member of the
Finance Committee, had, by' his opposition to
the Chairman of that Committee, prevented
it from making the progress which it other-
wise would hav;done, in the Session befoie the
I last, made a Secretary to the Treasury ; when he
contemplated- all- those circumstances, lie felt
strongly the necessity of that House giving the sa-
tisfaction of a distinct pledge to consider and
adopt some system of 'economical reform. That
the Gentleman to whom he alluded, would, as he
) had himself moddstly stated on the farther night,
learn to perform' his duty, ,he,hatt tee dohht ; yet,
whilst that Gentleman was learning,' the public
service must sniffer. Bet though the Hon. Geri-
Itemise were to be possessed of all the knowledge
necessary for the performaneb of 'the duties of his
office, still, as he did nut entertain the sane views
with himself as to the necessity oVeciattueny and
reform, he could nor look' upon Mai as! a proper
prison to be' appointedlie the slivationhe had beep.
' lately appaite,ilj.d. . 'Upon Maw: considerettutti,
-there-fore, lie thoeght it necessary (*sr that 'goose;
to give a distinct pledge to Alit pht! its that,
it,
it wouldnvei igh: plans 'of eedts umicift- •Agosl'
nut alone with a view to actual saving; .iii which•
way nothing very ' material was to be .ellpeeted
immediately, but also for the satisfacttiow iff. •the
people, Islip' ,had cheerfully submitted, to the
must extensiveitacrifices—nut only to the 'pressure
of a severe tauttion, but to a system, of Mat*
which operated- uputt them itt a manner the most
oppressive, end.griuding in the extreme. He should
cot then trespass length. OH the attention of the
House, but leave his Amendment to speak for its;:
self. After the paragraph in the Adaress, which'
relates to the Supply to his Majesty, he should
propose that a paragraph to the following effect
should' be inserted : ..
" Taat in justice to hi. Majesty% subjects, who haye so.
lung' and so patiently borne a system of severe taxaOja i,
which the long continuance of the W‘tir:has, readesetktieos-
sail, they would immediately apply Ai:Melees- to the
and adoptitin of such an "ienorimlail Reform as
would uouguly Imuuteastrat with the welfare .of. the 'Bute.
but gratify toe fielirigs. and Immune degie; attestant pirautp•
!gringo of a loyal People." -" - • . • -.

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On tiorateition being . put itiii the Austad.
ment,„ .
The'(;HAttELLOR Of the EXCIIEQUER
deelkted, that' Whig opinion thertt was no occasion
forifiOdekion of, the kneed/mitt of the Hon.
-Gentlentan, an& expressed Fels confidence that the
Quote Would not agree tutt: The Spec%h of his
Majesty had Creed), ass9ed the House, that
every attention would bo' paid to economy in the
public expenditure. If they were tstegrc.3e to the
Amendment of the Hon. Gentle Man, an impres.
'lion might go abroad that some considerable saving
was to be expected—an expectatioo, which, ac-
cording to the viewer the lion. Gentleman hiss.
self, could not be realized. As to *hat the lion.
Gentleman had said with respect to the grinding
operation of the taxes, he wouli appeal to the
House whether it was right to hold out to the
country, that taxes imposes] by laws enacted by
its Representatives in Parliament, ever. severe and
oppressive, as the Hoa. Gentleman, had repre. .
sented them. If it should be necessary, the La
gislaturc might revise aid amend eq.-till:11 Will as
might be found to be oppressive ; but it oeuld not
be right to hold out to 'the public such repre.
sentations as those which had fallen from the Ho.
nourable Member. On the subject of the great
expenditure, the language of the Speech contained
a pledge of economical management ; and as to
--the economical reform adverted to by the !Vlour-
able Gentleman, that would be attended twin the
course of the Session. The Amendment asserted,
'that the pledge to economical reform would elle.
Mate the sufferings of the people; but if little re.
lief was to be expected; was it not dangerous to
'hold out prospects which must .be frustrated ?
If even that reform were to be practically car-
ried into effect as to some offices, the same ob-
jection would sail lie against others, unless it wait
couteuded that all such offices should be abo-
lished, and none left at the disposal of the King,
fur the reward of eminent public services. The
Resolutions of the Finance Committee were to be
followed up, and that Committee -revived. The
limiourahle Gentleman, -whet Nam tChairman of
that Committee, was resolved to move for its re.
vival. This he had •informed him of in an inter-
view, which teak place at his desire; because he
wished to know whether the Hon. Member:meant
to take up the business, as otherwise he should
have felt himself bound to. make a motion upon
the subject. He should -therefore oppose the
Amendment, as unreasonable and unnecessary.
Mr. PONSONBY admitted, that his Majesty's
Speech promised-attention to ecouwiny, in forming
the estimates df the public expeoditare. 'But the ,
Amendment of Ids Honourable Friend related tor
points nut at all connected with a war expendituYept
it referred to such salutary reforms, at in Bence or
in war might be resorted to, and witieh weie 404ive
particularly necessary to be adopted jive-wiled at
war. . i _t . '. • 4
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Mr. B. BATHURST said, that the laiguage 00
•
the Speech and Address appeared to hhe to 'refer
only to the frugal disbursement of the public ex.
penditure, and-nut to those measures of ecossoml.
cal reform which every Gentlemen Must Alegi- to
be necessary. But these measures were la this
hands of the Committee, which wht to be reviver')
as the House knew, from the daybeing fixed fur
the motion for that purpose. -What-he betparsi.
cularly in view, in thiog, was to natieti *hat.had
fallen from an lion. Baronet (Sir Fretteiti Bur-
dett) early in the discussion, respecting i Noble '
Relation of his (Lord Sidmouth). lie had not
been in a convenient situ oleo fur hearing dn.! Hon
Baronet distinctly, and if he had misconceived or
mistaken his obseriations; be would bo glad to
be eorracted fi, him. The lion. Baronet, as he
understood him, had stated, that his Noble Rein.
tam ..had been raised to, the Peerage in con.
sideration of his having entered into the *silent
war. 'New he begged to sd the limmurable Ba-
ronet tight on this point, and to asstirciiirthat
he had been misinformed upon the subject. It
was nut until his'relation's accession to the Admi-
nistration of Mr. Pitt that he had received that
mark of his Ylajesty'a favour. 116 would keg
leave to state further, that when his
.relation
was retiring from office full of the favour
of his Sovereign, he hail declined a higher title
than that which bad since been bestowed ,upon
him; and also the offer of some pernoiery proxi:
lioli, which it would unquestionably here been
necessary for his Majesty to have applied to Par.
• liament to enable him to fulfill, Mot to which he
might be supposed to be entitled, not alone front
his conduct as a- Minister, but (rota his lerrices
' in the Chair of that House. •
Sirj FiIAbICIS BUROBTT, in :tiliitinstion,
- Stated, that in the observation to whicll-ttlte:Ho.
' nourichie Gentleman took exception',!',
„wily
meant testate in ginteral, that the elevall .
,t, the ,
Peerage was in general ill bestowed; bet e"wotild
. owe, that he was yet to Darn, what hid been the
services of the Noble Person alluded to, t?et could .0
entitle him to that distinction. . . . , . .
.4.- Lord TEMPLE frilly agreed, 'that it !mold
not be right to hold out_expectations to the
'public, %%Kett could never be realised;.. bat, if
that Houae should manifest no wish or dispositioe, .
a Juquiry, the people wiaukl begin to suspect,
''th4A4licy were not sincerely bent upon any salu.
' tar iteform whateter. The Right lion. Gent.
/(50,...Itathurst) had referred them to-the Finance
eilo4aittteo ; yet As •no such tribunal was in exist.
ce!..lidid not look upon that atlin Argument
against ii
c Amendment of his lion:- Friend: There
. might a notice have been given of a motion for the
revival of that Consnlittee ; but sae no such faults!
existed, and he wa;;ltenvinced of the necessity of
giving souse pledge bf RefOrm to the -POW, he •
should support the Animidnient... ~',,„'40.; , . . .
Mr.'WHARTON, as some .perioe. Ilusions
itur been made to him, treated iho sh 'Rite ha.
thiliiitl by the. House in a tel inbservat The
*mirk. of the Right Hun. antrilion. Gentleman
proosite,..upon ate littlivitioal.sach as- himself, •lie
Inge consider A celniilimilat.., Bee whilst tidy .
cuilhnoththitn to him 'rtarsouillY, and .his'aeoept.
iiinCe of the ellit.Wite had the hoopoe' to held,' be w
Wir.no.ilivpusition toitotke them. • 'lV**, lloWeir'' '
lever, ullubiuns were mode to iiii.lec•iiisti of fe '‘"
Member of the leineMei Costreittee,Alli met_
tr'll
Ifdired himselfbuuud to say a fop words., ;$e eel 'IP
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