The Statesman.
London, England, 1813-03-23 00:00:00

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been read fo them, and after they had read the docu.
inmate themselves, and which. hail ultimately been
signed by the Commissioners. Of these documents
he spoke—of no others ; and th,:re existed proof
that he had not concurred ht any thing like injustice,
or illegality. Ti.ey had not been parties to any did.
closure; ho hoped they never should he parties to
any such breach • of confidence as had disgraced the
times in which they lived—a disclosure which, he
thought, threateped effects of ,the most calamitous
tendency to the nation's dearest interests. Had
such charges affected him onlyas a private indivi-
dial, he should have treated them with scorn and
indignation ; in such a way only should he have
dealt with theehirge, which imputed to him the
basest crime that, in his estimation,could be imputed
to any man—of paeticipating •in crime, of concur.
ring in iujustiee, of. conniving at illegality. •But,
situated. as he had been, and feeling for the honour
of hii country, end fot the characters of its Coun-
cillors as he did, it was bounden duty to pirsue
another Course ; yet here; Again was he met with
the difficulty of the situation in which 'he was
placed. The charges existed but in rumour--by ru-
mour only had they been wounded—By this rumour
he had been -charged,' for -to rumour it most be re-
duced; of having concurred in an fillegal and unjust
course of examination ; but the charge refuted itself,
by stating, that such course was persevered in, in
coiljuiletion with Noble Lords, to mention whom
would be sufficient. to show its faliehond. They
were further charged of having subitifuted, for a so-
lemn authenticated minute, a fabricated—a forged
minute, different in its form, in its pueport, and lead-
ing to conclusions of a different nature from
such solemn authenticated document. —The state-
ment which bad been made of this matter was this :
—that there existed two ripen, each relating to the
same transaction ; that the one, and the true one,
was in the form of question and answer, and that the
other *simply detailed the evidence, which latter
paper was false and surreptitious, and had been
forged by the Commissioners, and substituted by them
in the Report which they had made to their Sore-
velem It might have so happened after the lapse of
seven years that be could have had nothing to say in
rebuttal of such charge, but merely to declare his in-
nocence—to declare that no such forged paper had
et er existed—that no such base proceeding had ever
entered the minds of any one of the Commissioners.
But he was placed in no such situation, he and his
Noble Friends were not reduced to a reliance on their j
mere declaration of their innocence. The evidence
of their innocence was fall and complete. The ori-
ginal minute still existed in the hand-writing of the i
Lord Chief Justice of England—in the hand-writ-
leg of Lord Ellenborough himself. It paw existed
precisely in the form in which it had been sent to the 1
King; The Minute was written by Lord Ellenho.
rough in the presence of the Commissioners and of
the witnessf and signed by them. The Minute
whils existed was the only !Innate that had been
taken on the Occasion alluded to. It existed not in
question and answer, but precisely in the form in
which a report of that proceeding hail been sent to,
the King. The existing Minute was the one which
had been signed by the witness, but not till the. Xi-
nute had been read to her, aid not before she,
had read it herself ; and no one who might here•
after read that Minute, could fail to observe
the alteration and interlineation of words which
took piece after the deposition had been write'
ten, that it might be precisely what she -wished.—
Dere then was the evidence of their intickenoe fail
and eomplete. What remained to' be said was also
fill! and complete in itself, and nothing could be
added to the above statement. That ou which he
was about to ohserce required no annotations. Sir
Samuel RoinilV, except on one occasion, penned
the depositions ; but he had not received any instruc-
tions as to the manner in which he should take down
the evidence as the witnesses gave it. Indeed, if he
(Lord G.) had entertained any doubt as to the pro-
per manner of taking down the evidence, he should
have been more inclined to apply to Sir S. Romilly
for instruction, than to think of instructing him how
to discharge the duty which the Commissioners had
called on him to perform. In thiabsence of Sir S.
Romilly, on one occasion, to whom could they have
so well applied as the Lord Chief Justice of Eng-
land, my Lord FAlenborough—a Noble and Learned
Lord, who, from the peculiarity of the situation
which he so honourably filled, was the most likely
to discharge thet•duty ably, honourably, and cor-
rectly—a Noble Lord, on whose accuracy of taking
minutes of evidence depended so materially the
lives and property of all the subjects in the country,
and whose conduct as a Judge was unimpeached.—
To him the Commissioners deputed the duty of
taking down minutes of the evidence, and he was
sure their Lordships would not believe, that. the
I.nrd Chief Justice of England was one who was
likely to barter with his conscieaoe, and teAraffic
with his character (whatever might have beinge in.
clinations of the other Commissioners) by being

this. Ile should adhere to the
Noble Friends-of meellig
violating either in feria of
Privy Councillor ; and,
the apparent ditScultfr of such ,
rely on their Lordships' jilptioe for
of diet innocenci to which. he felt'
flaring held the sittiation wh
under his Majesty, he felt blvisself
responsible than any of his No,
therefore thought it rlett to
view of strengthening what
and of acquitting himself in
ships of all imputation of ha\
of having concurred in, any ,
(lure in the transaction which

But it was impossible for him
what bad been said by the Ni

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guilty of the baseness of .minuting doWn evidence
diffeAntly from what had been given. He would
once more state, that so far as he was concerned Intl*
charge which had been preferred, he confidently met
it with the most decisive contradiction • and that the
base fact imputed to him and his Noble Friends
cculd never have existed, was proved by the exist-
ence of the Minute itself. More than this her
trusted it was not required of him to say.—[Hear,
hear!]-11e must confess that he felt himself
humbled by being called on to say so much; it was
a sort of humiliation that be had not expected ever
to be required to submit to. He also lamented that
he had been compelled to be instrumental in such
Parliamentary irregularity as their Lordships were
then witnessing, but tte would not.contieue the irre-
gular course longer
.than was absolutely necessary ;
for to pursue such iriegular course must tend to over=
throw the independe4ce of Parliament, by destroy-
ing the regularity, and consequently the dignity and
order of its proceedings. • lie sincerely begged par.
don for having been necessitated to tresspasti so much
on their Lordsphrlop:aatience, on the usual regu-
larity of their ins; but the extraordinary
circumstances its- which he and his Noble Friends
trusted, would plead a sufficient
hear!)
.4CEIL presumed to trespass on .tbeir
patience with the greatest reluctance, as
ou all o.casions, but particularly oa

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ceded him. than to express
all they had stated, and his agreement , _ the i. ,sis Is CIO, a
Liverpool. .. _Avis that he trod bens nnesi te
logs which they had expressed. They bad made out for Lverpool. moved tim, a maw writ for whit.,, kr which
a complete, -clear, and unanswerable case of the Eislioceerahet halals) beak AIWA, het foe Wilda be bad milled
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falsehood and baseness of the charges which had been Mr. PREN4DBRO AST prosightell 'a Petition from certain
levelled against the Commissioners ; and with them Merchants, and oiliest la Lewdest; pmehthat India her obilis
nth
he could only express that he felt ashamed,itinaWat-
aht matinee to hold the privileges w they has Mo
ed, and degraded, by being called on to defend him- • • ,
• WEYMOUTH.
Mr. aldermen ATKINS moved for leave tobring in a SRI to
self against such charges by trespassing on their •
Lordships' time, and by violating that Parliamentary la7l4Avkleeicathl the
g Re?tbresthwehpkbrpohtet. "ofkm"uliniagat Vivitita4es .
' regularity which ali of them most naturally feel so Mr. C. WYNN r.,7,41:agn he had not yet aPdeadrA *piston
desirous of supporting. The charge was of the most on the subject, saw some objections oo the restriction of the right
ootfheelrepon,
except
tour, d more wide!' there, than In any
serious nature—no lest than in having been concern.
ed in the foulest conspiracy that ever entered the - Leave was civet. Tbeollill was brought in, read a int time,
1 head of man--:endttgil they would have been un hy ono ordered to be nada sowed time en Monday main *Mb
Lot only ofi:2111 Majesty's confidence, but ortta
~ . . (t. borinred.
The Inalveat Debterellill was read I snood time, int
4'
lag seats in that House, could they have Aver har- mined for the Sd of May.
boured such an intention is had been imputed to ' The ^Out of the General laelmare SW was ordered to Ms;
them. 'Foe their own honour, and for the character considered' on the 3d of iltilrilsCUßES.
of that House he had felt himself called on to ail. Mr. BOMBS postponed the consideratino of the Report of
dress their Lordships in refutation of the chaigel 4beoSnintLeure trfe"ri°olelithlrtd" thatindgay or titlielitietlO !iial Petit
which had been made, but it was impossible for liim Larceny Bill, Sir C, MORDAUNT objected to Mr.it.°Y )(ZAP.
to find words strong enough to express how diell7- RICK stated his willingoets to accede to some amendthietnrs
And the third reading was pastpeeed till the Id of Mar... ~ .
he felt the falsehood of those base charges. In rent,
tation of those charges, he would state, on the honour' • PRINCESS OF WALES. . •
Hear, hear!--And he would further remark, that
of a Peer and on the faith of a Gentleman, that al! Mr. WHITBREAD rose, and observed,, that-ht
that his Noble Friend bad said was strictly true.—' had read part of. a paper to the House. the olher-.1
1 night, on the subject of the examination into die
[)
there were any legal course known to the Coast'.
conduct of her Royal Highnesi the Princess of WaSesi
if .
tution by which those charges might be tried, he he had then stated, that, if he should find that any
should most fervently wish
.for such opportunity of , imposition had been.practised upon him, he would
defending himself.—[hear, hear !1 i readily and publicly acknowledge it in his place.
The Earl of MOIRA observed, that he too-had ,He had just learned, from a short report, that a
in some degree been -made the object of unfair' ca. high Authority in- another place, had, in a very 1
bunny; not on the occasion to which his Noble ' temperate way, declared that paper to be a fabri..!
Frieliflq had so pointedly adverted; but upon one in cation from beginning to end,—an entire falsehood, i
some degree connected with the subject matter of it..: —and had imputed weakness to him for having used'
He fui!). agreed, and he felt with them, as to the point `it. lie (Mr. Whitbread) had discovered no addi-'1
in wl.ich they were implicated, and he felt how hu.. tional reasons for supposing that the questions stated 1
wiliatiug must be the feelings of that person, re- in th., paper in question were not put, except in
diked to defend himself against such a'charge. In this disclaimer of them, and this declaration of the
such a situation, in some degree, was he himself ; falsehood of the statement, made in a quarter to
placed, in having been charged with investigating, ' which it would not be quite regular for him more
and covertly endeavouring to obtain evidence against Particularly to allude. He felt, therefore, under
an individual ; anti with engaging in the dirty pus. these circumstances, that it would be but justice
pose of examining in that view, the-servants of an in him to apprise the witness (Mrs. Lisle), of the
'individual. But he trusted that no soul who knew . matter ; and if she also disclaimed it, then the
aught of his conduct or character, would for a mo• disavowal would be complete ; and he should
ment harbour such k sus xicion '6l. hint; and he could be very ready to acknowledge that he had been I
solemnly assure their Lordships, on the faith and imposed upon. But until she kad seen these
honour of a Gentleman, that he did not, upon any questions and answers, which were stated to .be
occasion whatever, or at any time, in the least seek impositions upon him, and until lia had received i
for any information against any one individual. [Hear, her answer respecting them, he must suspend
hear !]—Far from that, not only did he never do the declaration of his belief in the imposture. Ai
so, but he never had the smallest intimation con. for the document, whatever it might be, he had nt4. ;
veyed to him for such a purpose. But at "en a cer- .ther bought it nor nought it. Ile had not received !
tails lihrstrions Individual was in question, he deem.. it from the Princess of Wales, nor from any person
ed and felt it his duty, as one of the Sworn Coen- , in an official situation, or connected with politics, or I
cillors of that Illustrious Person, and was even public life. lie should believe that an imposition i
bound by his oath, to enter upon an examination as had been practised, when he should find that all the ,
far as he considered it might be consistent with the : five persons, the four Lords Commissioners, and
line of his duty: A certain Noble Lord had made '. Mrs.. Lisle, concurred in stating the particulars to be
the most unexpected and unwelcome declarations, I false. In suspending, at present, an • acknowledg.
and stated that' the circumstances which he Oho ; ment of imposition, an opportunity imfortunately
Noble Lord) then mentioned, were not only talked ; would be soon afforded him, by the intended motion
of in the House, but in the whole neighbourhood ; : on Wednesday next, for stating what he knew, and
an intimation of that kind, he felt was not to be . what were his views of the subjett. Should that
passed over, and he took the liberty, as he possi.. motion be withdrawn, he should take another op.
bly might have misunderstood the Noble Lord who i portunity of explaining himself.
made the application, to suggest the propriety of first I Lord CASTLEREAGH' observed, that such
examining those witnesses; and what was the re- great inconveniences arose from incorrect and irre-
suit ? It appeared from them (so we understood his . gular statements, that it was highly desirable, that
Lordship) that the affair was scarcely talked of in : any Gentlemane should ascertain, on such sis
the House, and not at all in the neighbourhood.— sions, that he was making use of an authentitsated
Such a procedure was made a ground for the scan. document.
dalous imputation of secret practices to procure WI. I Mr. WHITBREAD remarked; that thericirtii.
deuce. A view of the circumstances alleged, render.. difference between an authenticated and an eittheitic
ed it not improper, that two medical Gentlemen i document.
should be referred to ; and he thought that upon the Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that en impres- 1
whole it would be more delicate and proper, that ; sion had been made en the public mind, that Owl
these persons should meet a Magistrate at his house, i Commissioners did present a report, with deposi. !
than in such a state of things to undergo an exami- !dons, which, if that paper were authentic, were
nation at the Office in Marlborough-street ; and it not in strict 'conformity to the nature of the svi...
was even stated, that the very meaner which he dis- deuce. received by them. ~ -. r- .
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played at theitignaiinttion. mu adepee4 Swintluen ,- -Mr. WHITBREAD said, iiiegnestion was, whe.,
the witnesses : this his Lordship described to have ther the answer was, or was not given to a corrected
been the very reverse of what was insinuated. If it question. What he had Stated was, that the depot
were sea; I
their Lordships would be satisfied, it was aition would have been different, if taken correctly
intended as a severe check, sad thu real intention from the evidence, as stated in the paper of which he
was, to convey to the person at the moment his idea, had read some parts.
that the truth was not spoken. While he was on Mr. TIERNEY remarked, that in such cases of
this topic, he would, as perhaps he had not many investigation, it was not the practice to put down the
days to remain in the country, beg leave to notice questions. No Minutes of questions to-Mrs. Lisle,
another most unfounded insinuation against him. It in the course of her evidence,- were taken ; but her
was stated In 'a publication, that the Earl of Moira, ansiVers were written down, and were then all reed
as the writer expressed, had authorised the insertion over to her: after which she signed the
certain anonymous paragraphs, for a certain object He was sorry to be obliged to differ from his Min. I
,as seemed to be insinuated. So far-from such a ca. Friend; but he must ask him, what doubt he could I.
lumny having the teat foundation in truth, he could have upon •his mind on the subject' of the &brim..
solemnly assure the House he had never but ones: in don, unless he meant to go the length of sup-
the course of his life, authorised any thing hi the posing, that the four Lords Commissioners had any
shape of an anonymous paragraph, and that it was view of entrapping Mrs. Lisle.? After the full
once on an occasion so entirely personal with respect assertion of the Commissioners, that the evidence
toltis own family, that he would not trouble their of Mrs.. Lisle was 'taken as correctly, in point of
Lordabips with a particular statement of it. He had form, as the nature of the proceedings admitted of„
in fact, alWays the utmost althorrence to every sort he was surprised to find his Hon. Friend think.that
of anonymous statement ; bat, with regard to such there was even a possible accuracy in the paper he
paragraphs, as would tend to calumniate or hurt the had produced the other night. A Gentleman, he bed.
feelings of any individual, he solemnly !declared be- sail, had given it to Mm, one on whosie honour and
fore Almighty God, In the presence of that House, veracity he'relied : but even that was hardly a sof&
and of the country, that no consideration upon earth dent inducement for the strong observations he had
would induce him to be concerned in their publics. made. But, then, there was the strong Declaration.
thin—[Hew, hear!]—and. those who were capable of the Commissioners 1 In what a situation must any
of such conduct, he regarded as.equally weak man be, in such a trust, If liable to such corrections.
and wicked, and deserving to be excluded from' The honour and character of the' Lord High Chan.
that society which.they Contaminated by their pre.. ' calor, the Lord Chief Justice of, the King's Bench;.
lance 1 • - of. the Secretarpof State; of the First Lord of' the
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't eerie placed, he
4 ,
. Earl SPEEHNerIo:
Lordships' patient
indeed) kr did ou
•

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THE STATESMAN:
••••••••••-- aeons., 4E6.4: r r r 7.4. T _t _.......
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the deterailispaisi his . ... Tbe.lllol of IMRPOOL Then meted, that the 1
i the charge tatunte I Ben Ai *OW- adjourn, which' proceeding, on the t
substance ihnia)(at f queiWolf beir(pot, immediately took place (at seven ]
bolster he might 'feel • o'clock) da ti-etorrow. t
•
'ltch a mode, Ode, ?+pshould ' . ,' .#i , , I
its for the eetibllaltineut •- • • lgopsE OF COMMONS.. .. i
• • • . 4.'s ,
hi felt Mint sistitlade— Tard C.
stryiNttlY_Akresented the Report of the c aidlidttei '
n which he bad done ea Me . issammen width declared the Sitting mention .4
ilastif to be mire eutcust , del v electalwrit.iodw
tuns sot Mooing. Oa •VklltliMlS.' 1
new.for,Ryo, vacated by Mr. Wellman, I
i Noble Friends; -and he ' who sow Mom* fortmothee Once. -
Vali' idaMtbing with the i , A r!tillill Wirptileitiott by :Mr E. cfrATC/IBULto ii-oli"-r 4
t 'had nivel°, been Said, suing the ilte4:4,:t I. th'imweb;r4 tazread. : for
C 62,- I 1
the eiet• of their Lord- The Report of the Cosibittie sin theoubject aim . 1,
having been guilty of, or Llroti:itt c•44llS..itsitifeig. was mated ter, sad 1 i
illegal or unjust prose- In a ansusltta—olTitioi.koty,"liit. WHARTON inovett:f l'
ch had been alluded to.— Loom. • !be payment "ilrowsetaullag Exchequer Bills.-- I 1
i m further to ititsengthen 1V:414641m .•
. 1 aft 1
Noble Lords wiloliad pre- swim betweesur. cwalou today, sisritirtrele::- . i
his entire concurrence in Mr. C. .see,, Mr. J. :P. Brant, &c. it was rrrel to a; 1
agreement 1.6 all tit! feel: _ lei'vm.'e mg artrrosud,a4.asery Ing ttient 11 . had We'ren meg i
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