The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-05-12 00:00:00

_... ,_

•:. .:colic, the Seeakeie end '*erieant fingh,t to in ;that Hesse, and it was his duty to • state_
.r to theacticins hroughtaigainstelieM.HO Was his own opinion. Ho could state a number of.
t'Oe that the question was of that kind which' cases where personecommitted fur contempt by one
uerred unanimity in that Hnese- most desirable. Court had been brought up to another, whensl
A •it was nut the duty: in any man, file such upon consideration of their cases, they had been
e,..iou'onity, to sacrifice hkopiniolueitiChis con-
.liberated. He should more particularly allude to
S, lelleee He should not trouble thellouse at any , that case which contributed more than any, other
length, beefiest, perhapi, ihe 'sentimente he had to the assertion and liberty of the subject in this
twee might not be agreeable. It was not liN -country, ho meant the case of Penn. and Meade,
intefoion togo into the various topics Whicbilltdr two Quakers, who had been triedrin the reign of
I: 4
(; VC% syabli touched upuip by Msßight Hon. Friend i Charles 11. fur being present at an illegal assem.
01r. Ponsenby) I his night, and by his Ilun.Friend 1 bly, and were acquitted by the. Jury against the
eir: Adam) ilea former debite. Both differed from I direction of the Judge, the well-known Judge
y.. elle urtheir opinioni on this subject; and though he Jeffery. The whole of the Jury were committed
tst. consideralijanself called upon On a former night for', contempt, in having acquitted the prisoners
t . state his sentiment.' more et large, in order to contrary to the direction, and, as it was said.
prevent that liouie.from coming to what be looked against the evidence. They were afterwards
reon as a Wrong deiiiion, he did not think it tie- brought before Chief Justice Vaughan, who went
t.essary on that occasion to plead the curie of par_ into a long and laboured argument to sliew that he
Ise: litigating-a question with that House. The I had juradiction, and cited various cases in proof
1.«...e6i question was 'different ; and•if Ise was dis- i of it, particularly the case of a man committed
posed not .to so 'into it,-be coati] truly affirm, it Iby Sir Nicholas Bacon for a contempt, who bad
su;s: lint in consequence of the doctriues he bad i been released by the King's Bench, because the
:beard advanced, ha becaoie the present state 1 commitment was for contempt generally, without
of tin. business did nut call foe
.it: He would 1 specifying the particular contempt. Therefore
'custifess, however..that he did not entertain thoopi- ! these analogies proved little for the argument in
eioti that thePerivilegesof that House ought not to this case. But be was not desirous of saying,
' i...e brought into discussion in the Courts of Law: He much upon this 'occasion. Though he knew ,that
'would readily admit that the privileges of 'Par. any opinion of his was of little value to that
lie'ecnt 'were a imit.of the law* of the lan4 and House, his opinion was of much value to himself.
jsail been as sucterec4nize4 anti acted (lead in He knew that the privileges of that House were
,St:.l. Courts
.0 Law. 'He would admit that that given and maintained fur the benefit ofthe people.
Reese had power to-commit for' a breach of its Undoubtedly they were; hut if the time should
r •
. pr;vilegc,ois he bad before Stated e but he enter- ever come when the people, instead of thinking
tained some doubts as to' the' existence or certain that they were used for their protection, should
. 1. •
legal rights, wh .iih had betel construed tia, flow believe they were exercised for their oppression,
• from .this right' of commitment. As to the he must say, that he should consider that a most
• question before the House, there was in appear. calamitous situation fur the House to be placed in.
' anee a desire that something. ihould be said as Mr. WINONA'S' observed, that though his
to the knit of plea which should be put in. But Honourable Friend professed to uphold the pri-
he could Pot collect what plea was intended to be vileges of that House, yet the arguments he had
set up, nor did he understand s the House to used in the latter part of his speech weut to sub-
' have decided upon it.* lie conceived the objec. vent them. The general doctrine maintained bs,
tion generally meant to be made against pro- ' his Honourable and Learned Friend would also
reeding with the action to be, that the, Speaker subvert the privileges of all the minor jurisdic.
and Serjeant, becaose they•ltad acted severally as a lions in the country. This was, the same as
Speaker'and Officer of that H -use, in execution the doctrine held out in the Letters of Sir Francis
of its order, could not be sued in an action con- Burdett, well suited to his auditors, but not
siftently with the privileges of that House. To such as he thought his Honourable Friend would
• him the possibility of inch a plea was not very entertain. This doctrine would go to establish an
clear. He could easily see that the Speaker, act- infinite series of appeals—a system, which, 'on the.
lug implicitly in conformity to the order of that authority of Dr. Paley, a writer often mentioned
Rouse,,euiuld very consistently make use of such a of late io that House, could never be established.
' plea;. but he could not equally satisfy himself that There must be somewhere, iivevery nations a power
'the Serjeant at Arms could avail himself of the same without any confront, and it was not fair to argue,
plea. As well as he could collect from such in- from its abuse in one instance, the necessity of
formation as Gentlemen senerally had upon its total extinction. - The Right Hon. Gentleman
such silbjeits,, the charge against the Serjeant thin proceeded to she* that the necessity or the
nes not that, as an officer of that House, he had case required that a discretionary potter should be
• acte'd by its authority, but 'that he haul executed lodged somewhere, and instanced the discretionary
the warrant committed to hint in an unwarrantable power given to magistrates of every description
Panner. Though the execution of the warrant throughout this country. lie had, at first, some
simply may not b'.' coaniztible in a Omuta Law, doubts as to the propriety of the plea; but he eon-
without a violation (7f privilege, yet the manner fused that these had been in *great degree removed
of e‘ectiting That warrant may. The warrant may by the speeches of his Right lion. Friend and the
be legal, and yct tfie officer legally responsible fur Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. Ile thought the
the mode of executing it; as there might be some Speaker might plead without compromising the
doubts as to site legality of executing it in a particle. dignity of the House, looking upon that proceed-
tar mode. It did not appear to him how it could-be ing only as the mode of putting the Judge in pus.
put on the record that he had acted as the officer session of the fact of the privilege of that House,
‘,#)f that douse, in bar of an action: foe what. he as toneected with this ease.
had ulone in ejeceting its warrant, -He felt all The ATTORNEY GENERAL did Hot wish to detract
that heel been urged in the tloct clime advanced tearwt.hibneutfsw when he aVeurditEmticiannvoefatslulee is 1 whichurls l
that day, that the privileges of that ffonie could p the ablest Jtitiges of the Courts cif .Law allowed, that the
tesirmiviidleilogets of Parliament
geantn',.wne‘r.e.ili,tlben.z tileiti.inrieci jurisdiction,
gtis s.elri:
Dot be 4..estioned in the Courts rif Lite. But he
would beg, of Gentlemen to remember what were all mistaken about their jurisdition; and he, therefore.
the privileges •of the other House of Parliament.; thought that the privileges of that House had been firmly re.
to bear in mind that they were contending then . chrileanteeitite.,rl
eadwbeoftiiirie Fat-late:is 1113 a tobethretZa"„licr Slsir whichtlto-
for the privileges •of another , branch of the Le- inas Jones, in the Cafe which had beer so often alluded to. he
gisiature, which had no common feeling Or itioderstaio, th(eraziptnions to he entirely as to the form'of the
common interest with the people, as much us '
gee.a. 'comiZe detre'iticde,enli'utt that
leyi Iceoraaceatitveertiotratttitlede°Plelavi'llitil
for their own. It was an extremely danger- not been put is its tile form of the law required. He could
htisi.itHthetoutiaoludretsaial
iLc.awarneencluireriveenrd
take
• ous doctrine to maintain, that 'whatever
was Samuel Itot arree vitit
niilly) h
done against the privileges of -either House of mm their consideration and judgment the euistrowe of 'the
Parliament was to be arbitrarily punished, without privileges claimed by• the Mare. They were the only
jsu,adsgchsinolirltellii
are
‘nmilirrti si•lilfeigrtsl,v a to 1
Iti htVi,r
mil ;tariitsiti.tmt
,tir 3et
tees
appeal or lemal'itivestitation, beedinie the privileges
of neither Ifeuse were to be questioned in a Court mast imve considered the lawin many cases 'where writs of
of Law. lie would repeat that it was a most Ilobrol Corms have been moved fur the discharge of persons
dangerous doctrine, and contrary to the - princi. tcrinuse'inclia.'sesed.i'scri4i:ltBhteinte Pr- t Portahli
cause ufiCtiiienotitmofenttilawtaislanluor se'
• pies .of British taw ; and in proof of this, lie the prisoner was remanded. Lord Chief Justice de Grey
would suppose ass extreme case. He would sup.
gave his opinion most decidedly to that effect.. If it were.
.
ti veil that the House did possess the pro/oleos which
pose either House to Pass a resolution
a man from .the etercise of a legal rights if that they had the right of' deciding on their privileges, and
them decision must be final and conclmiv.e. It had beehi
individual were to be arbitrarily Conimitted for
thrown nut by many persons, anti also in the course of
. ' acting upon 'a tight sanctioned by law, would this debate, that there was a considerable dierence
Gentlemen think such an exercise of privilege was between the cases of the Speaker and of the Serjeant at
perhapsArs. bet
expectthedeeeT Lat.:ll:et-
socuniidu.aedyisoomh
esttilgulso,nittb:isouuli!
to be defended ? Yet, improbable as this case nal:,
it was a case that actually had happened, and at ject. As to the form of the plea, he agreed, in a great mea-
no very distant period, in, the parliament or sere. with the opinions of this.a. n II!! thought the plea objected
to by Sir I. meta Petit:kerma and Sir 'I. hos. Joneswas wrong,
Ireland, now Cottstdidsted with the Parlia, as pleading to the jurisdiction of the Court of King's Bench.
timid of this country. That Parlianamit. voted Hethought that pleas, by denying thejurisdiction.v..ere wrong,
rely man who should demand or be-concerned in itlitssmi‘i,iree e
ip)ro,i,eueleutb!eoinne,utitheril.'iseui.tetao
.t 1 lwv ha°s lit
It
hi
that Ituhreilliee; .
prosecuting 1. suit far the recovery of tythes of should lee he tra toe., • . • : '.• ,ti of the Court of Kings Bench,
agistment, an enemy to his Country. Was such but that. it, shoald be g,., ~.:j A
.plea inhhar to thertion, as
a Besolntron to be maintained as 'a privitege, when tainie,ginn)gela,,lttaf=is,"" ini",,.e.., ..%', e„rklntZ House had
it went directly, to deprive the subject of his legal I Low to a decision on a rinestton of p. ivileges. that decision,
of the
icceseeirredt,nranclottilesreiv,e o4tetlateime,ourhiso4oef
vit:raWc.enlren,:litehlcitmier,
rights and undoubted property ? The CASC was an
extreme one, and nut likely to occur again ; but he had exceeded the authority which the. Speaker's warrant
it lia.l occurred once, anti might again in the it, gave him, lie did sot see how that case could be taken from
tikteejeurrtiiildnii cyt i
7.
otiolfilnneutCboue ratsboifteLtaowt
heti 7.ateolliso;tiotronilLnify p lteadt it.
Nations of times and eircerestances. If their pri,
• ileges were not to he discossod in Courts of Jas. serjeatot at Arms was an °dicer of that House, acting accord-
tice, bow did it happen that persons, committed ing to the warrant given to him i for it appeared that he
e cerded the powers which that warrant gave him, and act=
by the House were brought up on a vi tit of Habeas ed illegally, the Courts of Law might certaialy take colon-
Corptis to the Courts of law, a hire the Judge wince of it. He thought it right, in the present stage of the
ascertained the authority for commitment, (Ili!: ogvitil ra w
saiudiuttthlaist setitei,trueltddlsilotteteadeinitni.sliodutlitivheer.ged..
P Mr"
Kr-
before he remanded the party ? What had metal proposition which he had heard so often, that in every
been the opinion of Lord Kenyon himself, a wouldael iteesiutuh•to bseu pare Peremeo wI:to w trier ry uei giedt :9 =IC e irfl 'a
tulrieel
peer of the realm, when .he made a long argil_ for making general lairs -Phut so for particular cases,g he did
went in his Court on the subject ? As to len shine that any hnuscl; of the Legisiatere, or even the Le-
what haul been slid respecting she unaloguies ;frac-
Vtiptiel!, itself,
r. As taoapriivgilletgetos, he kweavanfdori!t he asknXinlatastit6ll;
. lice of the Courts of Law in ennimitmetels for coo. all those ,privileges wnich could be clearly skean to have
itumpts, he 'could see nothing in that. When it nehinged to the House it all times, and in the
.brist times;
. abuttil(tnetewoasf atoinlaisiliotrishe
.dweecrlearattoioue.lotHidneeea; anri.vetivefsesa.t
li-
could yes stated that a person -in) p risulied for I Contempt
coilld have no redress, he must' say; that if,: sorb forty to declare what they pleased to he their privi-
. 'l. ,
were Inc case, there would he an end of ell juiris- lege., there was no caleulatiog what mischief might be pro-
dtheuccidriebeyniasuicieth irtiniAimdeertutsof their privileges lii point of fact,
lictiMil. His 'Right Ilimourable Friend -(M r. chosen by our um% estoti had voted
PanSOilhy), fur w•huio opioion he haul the highest , themselves septennial ; and, if they could thus protract their
. own existeace at their pleasure, and lay down a hat they
Tel" ' I and ittuse honest, manly, and independent
eCA.C, 9 . ~
public 4tattitiel "utitled hint to the gratitude of his Would renialn for the liberties of the country.
,eonintry; hid stated what hi would have done if • Lord MILTON said, that whatever plea would hold high-
' sullener had'beo4 tlt an action egainit hint fur any est, the Privileges of the. Route (iv lietner in bar or in abate-,
karat), was the plea which he would most approve of.
judicial act, if hiweeti-Cleincellnie When he con- . The question was then put, aid carried unanitiously.
sidered the situation which kis aighe_Honseureble . Dlr. DAV IES at OP Y, after a few preliminary °Werra-
raditi had filled, he 'sliest' be iliapaied to defer beans, moved that the Attorney-General be_directed to defend
~ • the Speaker and the Sidi:tut at Arms against thitiactios.:
ta `his i
' tipinou ;
... . , . .. . .
. but 'they were la 'equalized ' This' idOtldti wields° carried saueueoasie.

•
i

TifC.STAITS Y 1 API

• ;'

,

Mr. WYNNE then said, that he wished to know whether
in future it was to he generally understood, that any body
might bring *edam of this sort against the House• witkont
fear of its exercising the privilege of commitment ? A re-
cent ease had been determined in the House of Lords, upon
a question of privilege, which be therefore considered non-
laves to the present. A Mr. Hesse, a Ju,tice of the Pence,
had acted under the ilnesediate orders of that House, for the
pUrpose of suppressing a ridt. An action at law had been
brought against him for this conduct, but the Hoene of Lorde
committed both the principal and his agent, alai wield not
consent to release them until they gave Mr. Hesse a dis-
charge from his action. Ile wished to know whether the
House was now to be understood as abandoning that course
of proceeding.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
he was not then prepared to give an answer to the general
question; but he would say, that in every particular .case,
he thought the House was perfectly at liberty to exercise its
owu discretion' and in the exercise of his best discretion and
judgment, he did not at present think that it was necessary
to commit the Agent.
Mr. WINDHAM began to speak, but was called to order,
there being no question before the House.
The House having resolved into a Committe of Supply,
Mr. CHOKER moved, that a sum not exceeding 1,511001.
be granted for Exiraorditiaries for the Navy.
After a long discussion, in which Sir C. Pole, M-r. R.
Ward. Captain Parker, Lord Cochrane, Mr. W. Pole, Ad-
miral Alackham, Alr. Whitbread, Mr. Croker, the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer, and Mr. R. Ward repeatedly spoke,
the Resolution was agreed to, and the report ordered to he
received on Monday.—Adjourned at half past three o'clock
to Monday.

TRIUMPH OF WESTMINSTER, AND PORITY OF
ELECTION.
'MIRE) ANNIVERSARY will be cc.
1 lebrated at the CROWN and ANCHOR TAVERN,
in the STRAND, on W EDNESDAY, May 23, 1810.
The Hon. Lord COCHRAN E, M. P. in the Chair.
STRWARDS.
ST. AKA E'S.—Messrs. Yarnold, Lunn, Lambert, Hutchin-
son.
J•MEA.3.—Messrs. Wimpory, Woodman, Collett,
Starliag.
Sr. ?MIL'S, COVENT CARMEN. and ST• MAKTILA.S-LE-
GILCAD.—Mers. Loehee, Beck, !Lamb:rid, Lees.
ST. MARTlN'S.—Messrs. Wishart, Middleton, Inglett%
Puller.
ST. GEORGRl3.—Messrs. Knight, Billeter, Taylor. Turner.
ST. CLEMENT DANES and Si. MARY-LE-STRAND.—
Messrs. Brooks, Starch, DANES,
West,
Sr. II A ROAR sr, and ST. JOHN.—Messrs. Slater, Staple
ton, llodget,. Young.
Tickets, Its. 6d. each, to be had at the Bar of the Tavern;
and of hlr. Samuel Brooks, N. 110, Strand.
Dinner on the Table at Five o'Clock precisely.
J. W. BROOKS, Sec.