The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-05-08 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN.

he had mentioned. It was offered to no one but
Lord Lansdale, to whom the possession of it was
unqueetionably*tore valuable than to any other per.
sea. It was true that It had been valued at only 30
years' purchase by two surveyors on oath, bat any,
one who bad witnessed the proceedings in • Court of
La*, on subjects connected with the value of pro.
perty, would know how to appreciate such an opi-
nion ; for never were there two or even ten surveyors
brought forward on the one side in such proceedings,
but two or ten were immediately brought forward of
the other to swear to a value different from that
sworn to by the former. It was a mockery, thee*,
fore, to talk of the opinion of two surveyors, as is
test of the value of landed property. The fact was,
however, that seven or eight years ago Lord Lous-
dale did, on such an opinion, obtain the Barony of
Kendal for 14,0001., although he understood ft
would at the time have fetched full four times that
sum if it bad been put up to auction; and he was ac-
quainted with a wealthy individual, who told him it
would have been worth his while to give three times
that amount for it himself. He understood that since
r the purchase, the Noble Lord had regained more
than the sum which he originally gave, by eaten-
chisements. All these circumstances were calculated
still more distinctly to prove that the only safe way of
dealing with the property of the Crown was to set it
up by auction.
Mr. If I:SKISSO,N observed, that the transaction
animadverted upon by the Honourable Gentleman
meat have taken place under the controul of the
Triteaury. But he conceived it unfair to intimate
any, uspiciort of improper motives, without a cond.
derataon of all the circumstances that might have at-
tended them. For his own part, he was favourable
to the mode of public auction generally, where it
was convenient. He had himself, in most cases,
taken care to have the sale of the property advertised.
The great bulk of what had been sold consisted
chiefly in fee-farm rents, sometimes not amounting
to above two shillings a year. Some of these dispo-
sals would hardly have borne the eapeaces attending
a public auction. With respect to the manors and
honoors to which the Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman had alluded, the general rule ought to be, tat
excite the greatest possible competition. But with ra
gard to the particular transactions to which he had
referred, as none of them took place while he (Mr.
Huskisson) had been connected with that depart-
ment, he could not give any precise answer to them.
He would say, however, that if the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman, instead of throwing out loose
allegations, would bring forward particular state-
ment., there would appear very ample and satisfac-
tory reasons for the course which the Treasury had
adopted. Ile could assure the Honnerable and
Learned Gentleman, that he was entirely mistaken
in supposing that, when the Commissioners ordered
a valuatton to be made by the two surveyors, they
did not direct them to take into consideration all the
circumstances, without confining themselves to the
mere dry, local value of the premises.—(Hear t)
Sir JAMES GRAHAM begged to trouble the
House with a few words on this subject. And first.
with respect to,the Barony of Kendal, be must state,
that it had been in the possession of the family of
Lord Lonsdale for more than 150 years. Lord
Lonsdale was the tenant for life of that property ;
and he could assure the house, that the espeoce of
collecting the small rents of the tenants was almost
as much as the amount of them. Lord [Antidote
himself had not set on foot the contract fur the put.
chase; it was proposed to him by the Crown, the
possession then being in him. The Commissioners,
so far from showing any favour to him, had valued
the property at a sum which no other man would
have given; they demanded no less than forty years
purchase, while it would never have produced to the
Crown more than 3001. a year. And then, with re-
spect to the manurial rights, he could assure the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman, and the House, that the
whole allotments did not eaceed 10001. In his
opinion, and be could form some judgment on ques-
tions of this nature, Lord Loosdale had given one-
third more than the value of the estate, and twice as
much as any other person would bare given for it,
he himself having at the time a life-interest in it.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had misunderstood him. He made no
charge against any one. Ile had only asked why
one person had been allowed to acquire Crown pro-
perty at ten years purchase, while from others twee-
ty.five, thirty, and even eighty years purchase,were
required ? The Hon. Baronet had also completely
mistaken what he had said about the Barony of Ken-
dal. His argument was—why did not the Crown do
as the purchaser of that Barony had done, enfranchise
and pocket the sum ? Would the Ilott. Baronet show
distinctly what the Noble Lord had received by en-
franchisements ? And then it was to be considered
that he had the honours into the bargain.
Sir J. GRAHAM repeated, that he could positively
assert, that Lord Lonsdale had not received 10001.
from all the enfrancbisements which be had granted,
and he did think he should be within the mark were
lie to say that he did Hot believe the Noble Lod bad
received 5001. on that score ; so that the clamour and
insinuations of the lion, and Learned Gentleman
were utterly groundless.
Leave was then granted to bring in the Bill.
A Message from the Lords announced their Lord.
ships' assent to the Duchess of Cumberland'a Dowry
Biil, and the Duke of Cambridge's Allowance Bill.
Mr. BROUGHAM repressed his wish to postpone
the farther consideration of the Report of the Edu-
cation of the Poor Bill, in consequence of his having
received at least six thousand letters on the subject,
some of which it was very desirable that he should
have an opportunity of reading before the discussion
of the Report.
A desultory conversation took place on the subject
between the SPEAKER, Mr. BATUURST, and Mr.
BROW:4IIAM ; the result of which, as we understood,
was, that the further consideration of the Report was
postponed to a futere day.
Ur. BENNET gave notice that he should on
Thursday next, draw the attention of the House, by
a specific motion respecting the cases of three persons
named Kneller, of Warrington; Piller and Sewel,
of Maochester, who had 'petitioned the House.
Mr. PEEL obtained leave to bring in a Bill for
providing for the accommodation of Packets in the
Harbour on the North side of the Hilt of Howth and

for the better regulation of Shipping therein. 'The

MOM
Right, lion. Gentleman immediately brootht in the
Bill,. which Wes read a first time, and ordered to be,
read s second (i.e on Wednesday watt and to be
printed.
Mr. WARD presented Copies of the Correspond-
ence that had taken place between the Master-Gene-
ral of the Ordnance and Mr. Million, relative to
the Life.preserver.—Ordered lobe printed.
ALIENS,

•
Mr. LA MBTON rose to make the motion of which he had
given notice. When tne Noble Lord moved for leave to
bring in the Alien Rill, he stated as onegrituod of the motion
the necessity of co-operating with the other Governments of
Europe in suppressing the conspirators who had concentrated
themselves in the Netherlands. The Noble Lord appeared to
deny this; bet such wns the way in which not only he (Mr. L.),
blot nsarly others, understood the statement of the Noble Lord.
He confewed that he hail been mach astonished at it; and that
he was utterly unable to reconcile it with the other declaration
of the Noble Lord, that the object of the Alien Bill was en-
tirely British. and that it had no reference to foreign Powers.—
These two statements appeared to him to be so extreasely con-
tradictory, that with a view to elucidate the subject he would
sow move—
,' That there be laid before the Honse.Copies or Extracts of
all correspondence since the 20th of November. 1815, between
any of his Majesty's PI intipal Secretaries of State, or of our
Ministers abroad, and the Ministers of Foreign States, relative
to Aliens."
This motions it was his intention to follow with another,
namell—
fiat there be laid before the House Copies or Extracts of
all correspondence since the 20th of November, 1815. between
his Maje-ty's Principal Secretary of State fur Foreign Affairs
and his Majesty's A mhas•ndor to the Government of the Nether-
lands, relative to any passports granted to individuals going to
or coming from the Netherlands; not being natives of she United
Kingdom toot the Netherlands, or of nay of their respective de-
pendencies."
If die Noble Lord bad ally objection to the Insertion of the
names of the individuals respecting whom the question of pass-
ports had bee.. agitated. they might be omitted.
Lord CASTLEREAGH observed. that on the ocension al..
laded to by the Honourable Gentleman. he bad merely adverted
to the residence of so many fiweignagitators in the Netherlands,
as showing the advantage which this rummy enjoyed in having
an Alien Law. He challenged the Honourable Member, or any
other Hoootimble Member, to show a single instance in which
that law bad bee@ abused by the English Government. Aliens
were uniforists allowed to remain withers( interference in this
country. provided they did not employ themselves in disturbing
the public peace. He should certainly object to the production
of the information sought fur by the Houourable Gentleman's
Motion, as it would unjustifiably expose the policy of Foreign
Powers.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT thought the objection of the
Noble Lord to the Motion must extraordinary and unconstita-
tional. It was mighty- well fur the Noble Lurd to assert. that
no
abase bad existed in the exercise of the powers vested in Go-
vernment by the Alien Law ; blot the House were bound to
take means ofaseertainiug the (net. No manwho knew how racily
power of that kind could be abased, would object to the Mo-
tion. He remembered that there was, some time sign, a case of
a foreign merchant, who was imprisoned under site Alien Act
on suspicion of plotting assassination; hut. after he had been
detained a considerable time is prison, the charge was discover-
ed to be the malicious fabrication of some of his debtors.
Mr. AIS FACRO hl II: thonght that the declaration of the
Noble Lord. that the Alien Act had not been abused. was a
sufficient ground for agreeing to h 6 Honourable Friend's mo-
tion, as that declaration comprehended a distinct admission that
it was liable to abuse; and, therefore, that the subject ought to
be vigilantly enquired into. Had there not, in fact, been a cor-
respondence between our Government and that of the Nether-
lands, respecting individuals over whom the Litter had power ?
If our Government litterft•red with Alien/ in other countries.
how could we deny the right of other Governments to interfere
with Aliens here? The conduct pursued by the Noble Lord
juaified the general opinion, that measures had been taken by
the English Merriment fur co operating with the otter Go-
'eremites of Europe, against those individisals whom the Noble
Lord had described as conspirators.
Mr. HENN ETT thought it a very bad symptom when a GO
vernment hating the means offered to it of exculpating itself
from a charge preferred against it, refused to avail itself of
them.
Mr. LAM ETON did not consider the explaantian of the No-
ble Lord as satisfactory. He would ask the Noble Lord if he
bad not joined with the different Powers of Europe at the
Treaty of Paris in demanding the surrender of those Frenchmen
who took refuge in Switzerland and on the Banks of the Rhine ?
That showed that there :vas a species of interference on the part
of this country which was tughly reprehensible, and he must
therefore press his motion.
The House then divided—
For the motion 30
Against it 611
Majority -—3 B
CLOCK AND WATCH-MAKERS.

Mr. P. MOORE, in conformity with the Report of a Select
Committer. to which the Petitions of the Clock and Watch-
makers had been referred, moved for leave to bring in a Bill for
the more effectual Preventi.n of Frauds and Abuses in the Ma
nufncture, Exportation, and Importation of sundry Wares, and
for the Relief of sundry distressed Workmen brought up to the
practice of manufacturing Clocks and Watches.
Mr. ROBINSON said he had examined the Report, and he
doubted whether any Bill brought in on the principles of that
Rrt would not do more harm than good.
leave was then give° to bring in the Bill.
PRESERVATION OF THE PEACE IN IRELAND.
Sir H. PARNELL, rose to make a motion for a
Select Committee, to enquire into the state of the
laws relating to the office of Constable in Ireland,
and to report thereon to the House. In making this
motion he had the pleasure of reflecting that-he was
supported as to its necessity by the statement of the
Grand Jury of the county be represented, and also
of a most respectable body of the Magistracy of the
County of Meath. There was nothing in the state
of the Criminal Law, nor yet its mode of being ,
carried into execution, which could be -considered
eminently objectionable. The Judges were. exem-
plary, and the Magistrates eminently distinguished
for their vigour and vigilance. It was, however, in
the nature of things that many executive acts should
fall to the inferior agents, namely, the constables.—
Into the mode of their appointment, their number,
and salary, it was his object to direct the attentjou
of the Committee, to which be hoped the Right Jin.
Gent. (Mr. Peel) would have no objection to refer
the subject. At present the Grand Jury appointed
the constables. Their salary was not less then 101.
and could not exceed 201. nor were tlity to exceed
ten in number to •each barony, .let it be. great or
small. He strongly insisted upon the necesaity.ater,
existed, not only of proportioning, the somberisa
extent of the barony, or its disturbed or peaceeble •
habits, as well as apportioning the pay of theconata.
bles, as in this country, to their official exertions and
good conduct. If these alterations took place, he
bad no doubt the lows would be as efficiently en.
forced itt Ireland, as they were at this moment here,
which he much regretted to say was not at present
the case, and that, too, without imposing so much
upon the personal exertion of the Magistrates them-
selves. In this country the enforcement of the laws
might with safety be entrusted to the ordinary sub-
constable. All classes of society felt themselves
identified with the preservation of the public peace.
It was otherwise in Ireland. The military authority
was in most instances necessarily introduced, for the
purpose of apprehending offenders, and doing other
acts, which wore here entrusted measly to the civil
authorities. This was in a great measure the conse-
quence of the different opinions entertained in Ire-
land of the degree in which they there enjoyed those
.privileges of that Constitution of which this part of
the empire was so justly proud. He did not mean
to insinuate that there had nut been mach done to
amend the administration of the law by the Govern.!
nett of Ireland. Certainly much had been. done,
but still Much remained to be done. The whole force