The Statesman.
London, England, 1818-02-28 00:00:00

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they had been sit acquitted• Bet. it ow set from
Yorkshire alone that thedehllied penoos at Derby

Scotland also, and' their eteptietseioss bad certainly
Aust been frasicated by- atay-rseereeises these-of the isa—
traordinary palms code:Fed tie Ilihisisterar When
,the Report came out, it imitated that all the ma-
nufacturing districts of Sceetasida. Glasgow, Edin-
burgh, and a variety of other twos, were equally
implicated t• overturn the Lawsand Gevernineril of
the country. The Suspension Act was intended to
eateod to Scotland: but either it did net at the time
of the Report, or such doubt existed on the subject,
that it was notthoirght proper to apply it; and what
was the consequence? Its Scotland there was no
movement at all Iu Derbyshire, where they ex-
pected such clouds to come from the north, no move-
ment took place till the Suspension Act Lad passed.
In Scotland, which 'was left to the course of its own
law, there watt no moeoment at all What were we
to' infer from this? In Scotland, where the remedy
could net be applied, the cure bad been most com-
plete. Insurrections had taken place in Derinshire,
where the extraordinary poems might have been
supplied; and none .iu Scotland, where they had
nut been used. He bed now stated the situation of
the metropolis, the midland counties, and Scotland.
The remelt was. that the metropolis. without any eserci.e (ex•
eept to the I.:valises) of the extraordinary powers vested in Mi-
nisters. any danger that might origiutilly have existed had been
gradually diminishing. In the Midland Cationic* an insurrec-
tion did talsa place, and treatise was loomed 10 its full e. clop-
meat. but was attended with no evil even to flume in Ps imme-
diate vicinity, and of ;Al others Must unwed thirty affected. In
Scotland, where the suspension had i•••ver been acted on—the
country was a scene of OnbrOlkien • traughillity. lie said Irate
guiltily, becanse she trials that had taken place in Seuthuid had
afforded no pre ofartbuiever that that tranquillity had there been
even menaced. lie must consider it as sot extraordinary proof
of tranquillity, that after all the in lances that had been of
freed of a disallected spirit prevailing these; await the repre-
sentations of his hisijeste's al Wee's., and she various allegations
in the different Reports; after all that had been staled of Glas-
gow, Edinburgh, and the manufacturing districts. his Majesty's
Law Officeis could bring none to trial but an old Clergyman
(against whom nothing could be alleged, but tints be had used
some violent exptesions in a sermon. and even that adept on
was timid to he nos proven), and too others, also had wad ha-
. proper words at a Public Psleetiug,till off which, in the septettes
of the Court, amounted only to •` indecorqus, absurd, and le-
proper expretsions." These were all his Nejesty's Law Oillerri
hod prosecuted„ with the addition of one other.—he Wald
hl.leinlay, who (after couduct on the part of the Crown Pro-
secutor to which he should not now advert, but which he
thought loudly denim ded a separate enquiry)—[Loud cries of
hear l]—was. after all. retorted• to his family vs tthout any sub-
stantiation of the charges 'wanglt against him. Having now
stated what was the situation of the country at the time of the
Suspension of the Halfwits Corpus, he begged to remind their
Lordships, that ke hod set out with undertaking to dwell ally,
on that statement which went to show eat there had existed any
real danger to the Government of the country. because it was Un-
necessary its any case but that of actual violence •a have re-
course to a Suspeosi )))) of the lleheas Corpus. Ile MO ou a
former occasiin stated. that if the II euse, instead of (Attiring
for designs of violence. and searching out for greaten ar-
rayed, bad only enquired whether erroneous and mischievous
opinions existed, stud to what extent, they would have
found that whole cla-ses of people were affected by foolish
and inspossib e doctrines; but he hoped he should not
he told that such opinions were to be repressed by the
measures of an arbitrary Government. On the contrary, it
was, be thougne quite clear, that the erroneous and absurd
notions litre principally caused by the. pursuit of such. stasis
trary measures. and by the withholding public justice from the
jurielice •t ought to exercise over offences. Such p; (weed-
ings formed the imxitiosatlimeet un which these oedema. were
nuurisbee, and it was by arilieriog to such proceediegs ;hat the
see;st handle was atetirded lO those who were disposed to inflame
abclniislead the public name --[Hear, hear !]—He was firmly
convinced, that if the methane' were more in number, and
Kremer ie puwer„ thee the most alarmed had ever imagined,
the true citadel its w hich to resist aid defy all their 'ettaelte was
that which as long ns Enelinalexisted would be setter led by
all that witegreat and good in it ; was that .which had beep
handed down sanctioned by time and the accumulated witiont
of ages—the citadel of our law—[Hear!]—which they who
profereed to bold it iu veneration ought nut they to expose to
neglect. as instißicient either to afford protection or redrescse
[Hear !]—This led him to the particular memo:, now under the
consideration of the House; a Him-lire which its character at
least was nit addit Muni invasion upuu the laws of our coon ry.-
I]..- Ile said, atidetianal, hes-sorbet he Suspensions of the Iles
hems Corpus, however violent and iinpropee, wits at leastn tem-
porary measure, while this would have a permanent effect to
the ends of the lives of !Moe who had suffered under the former
measure, sted would be appealed to sox precedent in future.—
Ile had said before, that he thought it impossible for any Noble
Lord to contesid that Stopemieo of the Habeas Corpus should
necessarily be followed by a Bill of Indemnity; but if reason
were not stifficieet for such an assumptiou, he was also
-borne out
try historical precedent. The Whims Corpus Act had been often
suspended; but. in Sir Hobert Walpole. a, Ist itester who
(legit' neve: to be ineutioned withont respect, would not call
for tiny Hill of Indemnity. After other Suspensions, dittaima
Kills bad been adopted and proposed, bust none to the rate etat
the present, except io 1801. or that of Ireland in li9ge which
he did not 'minion, because he hoped the transaction' of that
dreadful period would never be called a precedent for any pro-
ceeding vs Statelier. If, then. it appeared to their Lordships,
that under one Suspension similar to that of Ina sear, no
lu-
deinuity whatever had followed ; if they consider. d nut only
what provisions the present Hill contained, but what persons
were chieily.allectrd by it, he trusted they would pause 'weber
they proceeded. Their Lordships woe in possession 4.f the Re-
port made by the Committee. When that Committee we. ap-
pointed, he had suggested that it should be twined wills full
powers tousake a complete host-dig:snow, stud to, send fur pa-
pens, persons, and record.. It had afterwards been proposed to
refer the various petitmits from parties aggrieved to the consi.
derides.' of the Committee. %melter that had been acceded to,
or it had been understood that the Committee should have
power to send for pavers, persons, and records, was of no ma-
terial importance; but hr did cite-Wee it worth their Lordships'
attention to have made a full stud stateside' enquiry, or still to
make it, before they passed a Bill which affected the interests of
so many who claimed redress, which professed to exclude them
from that redress, o oil set aside the whnlesintent and effect of equal.
Lass. Udell. Loewe. ps hoped tostisfy the Publicabey could not
proceed to pass su, ii a no...rogre without completing the enquiry,
If such enquiries were inseparable from 'olden iii ii y Bills in ge-
neral, they were muse especially necessary iu the prevent
start'. Ile.did me say that lie should oppose an indemnity is
all cas of Suspension; but he entreated their Lordships to
look at ege peon itiaM of this Bill befisre them. It provided an
indemnity not only for those who were autborisedsto commit
and detain under the Suspension Act, but fur all persons wbe.
since January last, had detained any parties whom they might
suspect, however unwarrantably, of being disaffected toward*
his Ms4esi y's Government.—[Hear, bear-I]-1c included. mg
only Secretaries of Sate, Privy Councillors Magistrates, but
stlso all Officers. Spies—[Hear, hear !I—informers. or any
other who might in any manner have contributed to the detesa
tem of persons they might think fit to deetn objects of suipie* .
Would their Lordships at once rob and confiscate the legal Sights
and ethims of a description arsenous so large as those who had
been affected by. she late exteaordiaary measures, without at-
furdius them an opportunity of making their complaints heard,
and holding out a hope of some redress to those who, under
every precaution. might have fallen victims to misrepresentatials
or mistake? Lordsaies' Committee had done their duty,
but the duty .r.entnitted to them was only that of inspecting
papers submitted to theta by the Prince Regent.—[Hear, hear!]'
He would now risk their Lordships, whether it was not due to
tae interests of thus, who ere affected, and to the hotlinr of the
!louse and the cietars , to interpose such it delay as might id:
ford tiatekethe parties interested to he beset at the bar of the
I louse; la aiatii a from further proceedings in this measure, if
it complal ass a ere vimr by of atientiou and if not. to dis•
miss them withmit retaining a caMe for complaint. He begged
to resnisaf their Lordships, that . pending lademnity in
;beeline of -W Moans mid el,ay, ail petttiqua from parties who
had beep committed were referred to a Committee. to enquire
iato their merits.. and beenaldairodisee theanmes of all the Peri- ,
darters. Why that course should not now be adopted he had
set to learn. Ile kcew it might •he stated. and with some
cthnee of appt-thation from many Nettle Litri!A, that the indi-
viduals sere w..rt!tle.e. Ccrtalily, With respect to

E S'I:fikTESMA.N.

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srvii;i:rll ane
d the result
j CIO i favour; but tibiallititirikilid
of 0 •by law, was: alit My tad beldam
besets"to ter . worthies, however Oil"(nt kelt
till found so). *ill eh object of greater lawns titan
auy one of their Lordships basking in the sonshile of
. mei Wei& aseesiere-svaa ceusesuptilie_ AUK not nett

IMPMPIPPgr MIN/ •••••• ••••• mm!mor,,
er 0119 such ladivideak,- hat alto the coiri
many who WPC Jot 0041 J—It was the ditty
of the LegiShOlife to prevent men from beiag deprived, vadat,
aft, INV atildeffYi of the bee* of lowa atst pilefeat
Inherited by birth right. He wmaor Row climatal% the pm-
prim of entertaining the Bill malt (it might or might not be
nesarreary appealing. laths last Apt .f the Legit...oe.. wisidr
Ii referred). he only naked their Lordships oat to deprives.*
of their rights, not to es:dept. every hope of r. drew, int
adapting this-...we with*n lucre proeeedirag of eiewriry mows
•foll and ogienstre than that they had hitherto bean ontislied svitli.
lie entreated the. to 'flans the gaestima fur one fortnight s it
could espwe Mein to no upeoovorienee, as the es pest
.firelu law
they were proceeding to paw world covered she Weever. sad
it would afford time to deliberate on the tin.. of Intake who,
had been aggrieved, Ha. therefore, moved, that the word.
•• now" be omitted, and the wogs " tithe day Bailee" in-
serted instead.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, the Committee
was the proper state for the consideration of the pro.
visions of the principle only was before the
House, and to that he should confine himself,
Noble Marquis had entered upon the grounds of the
Acts of last Session. Ile would remind their Lord-
ships of the circumstances under which those Acts
*pre passed—the general alarm of danger,—the
'Secret Committee of theie Lordships Oft the subject
, —the powers. givers to Ministers in consequence of
their Report--the continuatieti of those powers efts,
a second Report had been made, and the salutary
effects of the manner in which sucb pneeri had Iwo
exercised in unnerving -the disaffected, giving con&
deuce to the well disposed, end trenqiiiility to:lbo
µOH( at large. la attaining this end Goveessernet
had done things authorised by the Acts of last Sete.
' Mott, and by them only, and came before the House
for a Bill of Indemnity, not upon their own state•
ment, but upon the Report of a Secret Committee of-
their Lordships. He would remind the House of the
Meetings in Spa.fields, the state of London in No-
vember, December, and January 1816.-17,
.when.
a sentiment of fear might he seen in every face along
the streets, compared with the general suspect of the
metropolis and the country, not so mach under the
apprehension of estraordinary powers eta subsequent
period; it was the wide spreading systematic union of
disitiftiction that called for powers which were not
deemed necessary in the case of 'Colonel I)espsrd's
malignant and atrocious conspiracy, or in the 1
case of the Report of the Committee of 1811, in
neither of which instances was treason so ramified
and organized into system as now, when a common
and concerted movement was found taking place in
London, in Manchester, in Nottingham, in Derby,
in Leicester, and Yorkshire. He contended thati
the conspiracy was proved by what came nut on the
trials. An honest and intelligent Jury (he would
not say whether the Juries in this instance were or
were not such) might find a verdict of ' Not Guilty,'
though the existence of the conspitacy was clearly
made out. Ho maintained that a conspiracy had'
existed at different places, and in ilitletent times,
lung before the month of April, when-the individual
in question went to the country, therefore it could
not have been set on foot by him. lie.thveght, a
case was clearly made out in the last Session of Par-
liament of a conspiracy so extensive and continued'
as to render the Suspension Act necessary. Its ob-
ject was to engage timbers of the lower orders in
ects.of tumult; and whit cuuld tell how many per.
sorps.of property would not he ready to join' its it,
and how many thousands might be collected together
in acts of violence in a few weeks, so as to render it
thing fur Government to suppress them
without making a sacrifice of the' liberties of the
country for a short time. if ever there was a men-
sure of humanity and justice which went to prevent.
evils den uumeasurableestent, it was that which had.'
been adopted last }ear.. The Habeas COrpus Act
had continued suspended dpritig the.war with France,
for six or seven years, and all that time there was
no insurrection or disturbance, but last year there
was an insurrection and a conspiracy. It was under
these circumstances that the Ministers,. with a Report
of a Committee before the House, now asked for the
protection given in 1801, on the precedent acted upon
at 'list time. The detentions which had taken place
did take. place on evidence, which could not be
produced, and in cases where the parties could not
be bruugbuto trial.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE explained.
Lord EItSKINE said, the question immediately
before them was, whether the Bill proposed should
pass now, or be deferred, according in the suggestion
of his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Lansdowne),
for another fortnight ? So dangerous a measure as
the Suspension of the habeas Corpus having been
resorted to, the question now before them was not
whether that measure was just or otherwise, but
whether Ministers had abused the powers which had
been intrusted to them? It was most dangerous to
suppose, that when perms, who had suffered in for-
tune ttod.charseter•under those• measures, desired to
lay their grievances before the Home, they should'be
precluded-frous doing so, from any general reliance
upon the-character of Ministers, or their discretion
in the exercise of power. Against such a principle
he would enter his solemn* protest. He entertained
great respect.for the Noble Viscount who had acted
the principal part' in the measures alluded to, but it
might be too much to expect that be should extend
this respect to all his. inferior agents. But, if even
the Noble Viscount alese were concerned, however
much he respected general character, he could
not consent to such a.measerese Wee proposed till he
he bad heard. the evidence. " Let us see," said the
Noble Lord,." what this Hill asks of us." He. had
no objections whatever to the reers who- composed
the. Committee; but threviderice on which they pro-
ceeded might heenboen.foroiehed by the lowest mis-1
crews, though- not known to bench by the Noble
Viscount. It was for this reason dust the country
could not possibly basefisfied with the' Bill now pros
posed. He rlitLnot• meats to make-any invidious al:
fusions to the,Noble Lords: blit . the: great majority
of the. Committee was Loomis to he composed of, Mi•
nisters who were themselves responsible, and of their
friends; and he thouglit4hwtraitors at Derby might
say with as good • grace as Ministers, 66 We walnut
be tried by a Jury of oar countrymen, we 'will not
allow any challenges by the .Crown, but we will be
tried by our fellow traitors." If danger to the ex-
tent alleged did really exist, why should such a jea-
lousy be teauifested respecting those to whcm the

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,wr that &twee wow to theershenlited a ins a
great proportlln of•Parlismesit were men of wealth
and reek, ramp would most willinglrupport Mini.
.Mere, if coo d thauheir elan *di well founded.
117 recollected'. that, .11Ifte4 theilliate at Ike Old
.1
iley, in 1794, • Weiy letirned end eloquent man
(Mr. Windham) had made use of an expeeskies.whick •
appeared to bias very reprehensible; to calling
wts• heels emestated bp' its lays.rad
I their country " acquitted felons with
ptiety might the Derby mhos ht-eallei
innocents. Aud even lo the districts where disaf,
fitclion was alleged to have proceeded th
dangerous length, the Report of Ahlseory Committen
'hose testimul that " the greet pen 6f the Peetplo red
mein ignition even during the periods of the. palest,
internal diihculty and distress." What mere asst..
sire evidence of sound anshakeu loyalty total*
estribitsal in any cottony In the **di: The Speak
of the Prince! Repot, at the opeeingof the z.
, boats teitimotty to the Mat effect ; and the
sincere end osieqoiestcay symptom of the
spirit Which animated the country was exhibited*,
a late mournful event, by a whole population
ding nitre 'Ol dlstrent sod cemealseestion. The only
case in which the spirit of distinction proceeded ,
to actiof violence; end which was laid held of es *
support for the statements which *ere glean of tit/
, county, was fount to. be of such a etcleres.thet the
appearance of abort le soldiem quelled them et seed
All (hie donee could surety. live bear atoristod
opt the Sespeosiera of the Hoboes-Corpse, end all that
surmises and general suspicion attending that uses.
! sure. Hy not proceeding according' to law, ors
unfortunate obstinacy of Ministers increased the
; and their responsibility increased twofold, by
shutting out the oppertanity of deft/idiot themselves,
He denied that a Bill of indemnity was a corollary
`.fewer the Suspension. This proceeding was ODIMM.
' polar, and it could Dot foil of being so.. The Nobler
Lord had got leis oon Joey to sit upon himself;
and in this proceeding he felt uteri for- the
'character of the House than -words could 'empress.
But their Lordships knew well that then es*
isied no jealousy of the People against the con.
.stitglen of that. House, which *as held in re.
sereoce for ages, It had been en object of admire.
'ion, avid reverenced for ages, not only with the
. People of Ibis country, but to all die world.. He
therefore Implored theca to hesitate before they wealth
overturn this ancient anti immemorial reeereace hp,
their rage for iuderintify log. Let them not be de.
cei red by imagining that any People upon earth
could submit to a legislation like this, where.
Acts were passed without evidence to support or
justify them. The Bill professed to indemnify MI.
tasters, Magistrates, and others--sgainst whom ?-.,
Against those who were unjustly imprisoned; who
were imprisoned without information or suspicion to
justify, their imprisonment. lie should most deeptr
lament it, if their Lordships should not accede to
the motion of his Noble Friend, to take all the Pe•
titions before this and the other House of Para
liament—(it was not regular to refer to the
other House, but the Petitions before it would he
presented to their Lordships)—he should deeply la.
mint it, if their Lordships should not vomit* all
those .Petitions before they passed a Bill of Indies;
alloy. If ..they once passed the Indemnity Bill, these
Petiiiesis could not be esamined or taken into con.
sideration. What then, he would ask, were the
People of England to- think of their Lordships, if
they passed a Bill of Indemnity against charges, the
extent, proof, enormity, and wantonness of which
they refused to enquire into ?—(flear, hear, hear!)
—Let them beware of venturing beyond the endur.
, ante of a free People. A free People must be go-
t recited too free principles. He would therefore sup-
' port an adjournment of the subject—be would do
Gain his power to procrastinate, to retard, and, if
, possible, to prevent a measure which, in his con-
science, he believed, to militate against, every
tittle of freedom cud of justice.—(thar, hear!)
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, he entertained!
the greatest respect for the abilities and eloquence of
the Learned Lord (Erskine), ahti hoped' that that
Leatteed Lord would receive what he had shortly to
Eder in reply with that consideration which he-(lord
Eldon) had always felt disposed to exercise towards
him. The Learned Lord, sod other Noble birth,
seemed to speak of the Suspension of the Habeas
Corpus Act as a matter of rare occurrence, whereas
there had been many such cases of suspension. Hut
When their Lordships saw that an Indemnity BM
was consequent on the. Suspension of the. Habeas
Corpus, it certainly was incumbent on them to tireo
the latter with some jealossy. The Act of Charles ll'
had declared euddehued those liberties which moo
previously the birth-right of the. People of this
country ; but it was not possible for any one to fore•
miry at. that period, that the very Act' which so fle•
dared and defined the liberties of the subject mig!it
theteafter.be foundsubversitre'of them. Had not•eoe
Parliament been conksidled. lir. a seccesdils one,
however, that very Act,. est tho. history 01 (healer.;
try would very *into ilsoye, might. have prosod
must dingeTOON to theiibertlee of the country. lio
admitted,, with their Lordships' Committee, rtes.
.soundness ,of the great• hotly' of the•'People%
yea
this admission did- not disprove the necessity' for
suspending the Ila.beso ,COtpus Act. Who would
assert that the Peeps 'al England %menet seen& to
thermion of William III.; but was it not matter "(
historical record, th'it during.thati reign the, Ilatteari .
Corpus Act was. sespended thine tionslo-[lfrer,
hear !j-i- Bills of Jtalemoity went!: also thew paSse3,
which justthed theivieistion of the law opoutheoleoese
city of the, case, and did. not give groutid-toriell4
vide-ale to come to Parliament for redress, at it,wae
presumed no good sehjite rie 'firefer such o scot
In suspending the. Habeas Corpes Act, the Legisla-
ture took awe,- thi•liberties of the subject for tl.e •
security of the Public.; and
,upon the same grosod the
Legislature might also take allay the remedy at. Ws
for grievances in' consequenCe of the ..suspension of
the Act. Tie. saute opt:810in :as to
suspension toot
place again in ,1715;. and alsti.itsll-16,:atid in.t/tosa
ingtaoces the act of tospending'. was stilted to be its
.sidend atian of the law, lhel.sereltutided"fer a'f
cordingly, ia. the Indemnity. Bills. An vigil/UO*4
rule, exemplified 10 the hilterry- of Ibis country, wit
talus supreasa Jaz.; was a rule which justitio+l
the suspension of any law, and indemnity to
who had suspended it. lie now came t., tit"
sion of the tlitieus Corpus Act iu 1793 .111.11.2 i

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arms hail cot witted aurliarigs 4u4Yoritalti
hattelitikeiv vilio hpaeiri vieviiiiit net
witheutitortiorpoissioif iOle pousertioufereed WW t I
,fsospenstgit of tile *aft. corral; .O*Y ba
tried at York for burglary ; but in consequence 01