The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-06-25 00:00:00

snort yeas afterwards • oseestre was introdsted tote
parliament, and not *prod by these very meth Of by
soy one of the Spiritus Pees, he stbnittlig Catholics
isle the army and wavy. This Weight him to a Perlis-
sentiment extraorstitsary is its conduct than say he had
Etter heard tit, and which, more thus all mimes, would
be noticed lry pnateriry. He meeet the Parliament which
sat doing the progress of the WatcherenEepootehse, aid
tag Inutry into it. It was unnecessary to eh mere than
to state the leading acts of that Parliament. It plunged
ac into a wet with Amerira ; opposed the Priest Regent
is all his elaims while the King war ill, and while his re-
covery was 'minted, end voted Ishii him when the
King's recovery vi al &rehired benapirss. That these
real questions were not carried by loge majorities, vr..s
. confirmation of his mil.. tor they remitred nice calms-
pstion,ineluding. ot course, the worshippieg of the'
rising San. The majorities. therefore, cloth' pot be ex.
peeled to be la-ce. The Cupetilsageo Expedition. and
the Conve • of (*intro hail been approved by the
sus Parliamesit. The Parliament, by a vote of
had celled for an efficient Ministry. and vet in three
weeks afterwards au; ported the thee Ministry by a ma-
jority of nearly one hundred. Bad as bad been many
of the votes of that house, be thought none could equal
Vise which voted approhasion to OM Miaisters who had
squandered the treasure and blood of the country in so
shameless a manner. 'The retrospect of such conduct,
lie was aware, must be any thing bat agreeable, and he
shinnld therefore hasten to later examples. He would
call the attention of thebvese to ties newton last Session
sarie by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Western) for the repeal
stance Ash Tax. Ile carried his motion in the first in-
stance. The people began to indulge—but the Noble
maws., a ho understoiol the niachltievy se well, hail
tote them ss not to halloo till they werestat of the wood."
He might safely tell thiets this. fur Ise was above is pat
his whip in notion. lie threatened to resign : it was a
threat which never failed, amt on the next discussion of
the question his minority of 16 or 20 was changed to •
majority of 40. In the year 1020 he (Mr. Brougham)
himself had carried a motion respectiog the agricultural
interest, but something happened the next morning
(chat it could be be knew not) which induced so dif-
fereot an opinion among the members of the house, that
he saw many elsewhere who had voted with bite on that
question the preceding night vote against him. He could
name the ioilivlenels. if called upon to do so. A similar
circumstance had occurred the other night, when • ino•
tion wi s introduced by a Right Hon. Member to permit
the grinding ".f foreign corm The Noble Marquess did
not oppose its introduction ; but be afterwards changed
his ontol, and brought the strength of Gooirement to
bear ageism' it. The King, in fact, by appointing a
Minister, gave hits the support of a majority in Parlia-
ment. There were so many •favours to be distribated
among friends and local adherents, that they operated
as a disqoalification to the conscientious discharge of
Parliamentary duty; a disqualification as estop:So as
that which was created by any legislative provision.
Upen these grounds he bad thought it his duty to
bring forward the resolution he was about to propose,
declaring the evil, and pledging the house to follow up
its declaration for removing it. He should be told per-
haps, that popular opinion had sometimes found its way
into those wails. bat these exceptions were a deplorable
illeetration of his rule. Nu one desist that is the coarse
of time the v..ice of the people had penetrated into the
walls of Parliament. He bad no fears so lung as we pos-
sessed a free press, an uncorrupted beech, and en inde-
pendent bar, however treacherous might be the conduct
of that hoes*. however treacherous to the Ministers and
false to the people, that discussios alone would give a
portion of liberty, and place a limit to arbitrary yower.
It give, indeed, as much as could be hail. without an in-
dependent Parliament. But the times did not suffi-
cieetly coincide. The mischief west on for years, and
Pseihnoinit'ilembered on ha pet. confiding in the Mi-
nisters of the Crown. They waked mild the stormed
pool became troubled, and then truly they said that the
groats of the people were sufficient to produce the effect
which would be produced ie the first instance by a Re-
formed Parliament. The Slave Trade was a memorable
example of this. The voice of the people had long bees
raised against that infamous traffic, but the abolition
coelsknever be carried until Ministers made it what was
smiled &Cabinet question. How was this to be account-
II for but by the induenceof the Minister? There was
a material difference between firm independence and
that desitary sort of independence which shelved itself
say when the Minister ceased to apply the lash. The
people, however, were now taking a steady anti decided
view of the evils which oppressed them, and which were
to be temedid only by a reduction in the number of
plass sod establishments, and that parliamentary re-
form, which would bring the people more in contain
with their representatives. He trusted the house would
ma I themselves of that opportunity of regaining
t'iat confidence from the people which there was too
touch o to fear they had long since lost. The Hos.
sad Learned Gentleman then concluded by moving a
Resolutico, " That the influence now possessed by the
Crown is unnecessary to the maintenance of its consti-
tutional prerogative. destructive of the independence of
Parliament, and inconsistent with the well governing of
the Realm."
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said he had to
bespeak the favourable indulgence of the House, while
he as shortly as possible followed the course of argument
taken by the lion, and I. d Gent. The proposition
ef the Hon. and Learned Member appeared to be found-
ed in a great measure on a calculation of the public ex-
penditure; and if be could induce the House to sustain
Ms proposition, be intended, it seemed, to advance a
measure the nature of which he (the Marquess) could
not collect from the speech of the Hon. and Learned
Gent. until he had kindly disclosed it at the end. The
lion. and Learned Gent. bad declared his intention to
propose a Reform of the Parliament. Now, lie had no
eljection in the world to the lion. and Learued Gentle-
Iran's attempting to reform the Parliament. It had
been attempted before in the course of the present Ses-
sion, and undoubtedly the Hon. and Learned Member
had a right if lie pleated, to return to the charge; but
he ought nut to do this under cover of diminishing the
influence of the Crown. He was happy to assure the
House that lie could join issue with the lion, and Lease-
• Gentleman, as to most of the facts he had advanced
'a support of his arguments. He should not enter into
the motive of any individual Member of Parliament;
but he denied, in the outset. it was of the corrupt name
artributed to it by the • 'on and Learnerl Gentleman.—
lie believed that the isiflorner of the Crown gave strength
to the opinion of large bodies. At the smug tone be ad.
'bitted that that influence bad at times been excessive,
iv.d that the measure which, as appeared by history. had
at various times been brought forward to restrain it, had
hem constructed on principes of sound and good legis-
htion; and he hoped the same degree of vigilance would
continue to he observed tou arils that influence ; and if
the Bon. and Learned Gentleman hail made out a case of
the existence of influence inconsistent with the liberties
of Parliament. It nouid he their duty to take immediate
r cps to check time growth of it But lie had a right to
argue as he bad done, by • ing that the influence ef
time Crown was great, and assuming. therefore, that
there should be a Refor . in Parliament. That was the
red object of his motion; for he had distinctly stated
mat it was to a reformed Parliaineut that they were to
100 k for a
a remenv to all the evils of the last 2.i years.—
TI
.te Hon. and Learned Gent. drew a compari sun he-
.iat the intent of the influence of the Crown in 1750.
when the Parliament voted that it was excessive, and
a` ter endeavouring to make
it near that that immanence
h increased in apes
used since that period, cams to a conclusion

The narrower birds wes, the intent of the 11**1110!
the Crown In Parliament. But taking the exist*
revenue in time of war was by no means an pitiable
way; and he must here say that he found a spirit of es-
eggeratien run through the whole of the Honourable
Learned Gentleman's statement upon this occasion. All
his Agar.e were angmented beyond their fair sad real
amount, nerd all his extracts distorted in a m that
it would ill become the house to allow itself to come to
a coneluelon upon. in a matter pregnant with such deep
importance and danger. For Instance. lie stated, the re-
veller and expenditure for the present year at 28,90140 W
whereas it was only 18.0110,00. In the same way he
tooted the Army at 33,1100 in 1790, wh the influence
of the Crown spread over 60,000,independent of the esta-
blishment at home. But when the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman compared the extent of the influence
of the Crown at these two periods, would he also compare
the state of the country ? Would he compare the popu-
lation at present with what it was in 17SO ; the difference
in point of wealth, and the difference in the state
of the public mind after it hail been broken io upon
by all the dangerous and fatal doctrines, which from
the time of the French Itevolittion, up to the preynt pe-
riod, had come forth to disturb the peace of the world ?
—(Hear.)—ln adverting to the comparative strength of
the army and navy, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
stated the adularia 27,000 as being ander tint ledliediew
of the Crowe is the half-pay alone, and then asked the*
how It was possible to refold this. In the first place he
meat say, that he was here. as in most of bin attentions,
quite at a loss to conceive where the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman got his numbers from. But he asked, was
this numerical kind of argument a fair way of treating
the question? Ought not rather the basis of the argu-
ment to be the spirit in which this amount of influence
was administered ? The army he was sure was admi-
nistered upon principles as free from any imputatiou of
party favour «sit was possible; and be appealed to
many lion. Members on the Opposition Benches whether
tbry were not treated, both at the Horse Guards and the
Adiniralty.with asmneh candour and liberality as though
they always voted with his Majesty's Ministers—(.:beers.)
They had already discussed the two services in point of
amount, and he challenged any one to make out a case
of abuse in the employment of the power they afforded
to the Crown. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman next
went to the Colonies, and stated the i of offices
In that department of influence at 800. Where hr got
his materials from, he (Marquessof Londonderry) did not
know ; but although he was not prepared to go into
detail for the information of tbe House, he would under-
take to say, that if returns on that subject were laid be-
fore the house, they would find that he had doubled the
number from what it actually was. He supposed he had
treated as Offices under the Crown all the offices in the
Colonies, and even then to make good his another* he
mug hare had recourse to the most menial offices. He
had got a statement of how this matter stood iu four of
the principal colonies, from whirl, it appeared that se-
ven-eights of the whole appointments that had been
filled imp by native servants, were appointed by the Co-
lonial boverontent.--(Hear; hear, hear.)—In some there
were not more than three or four, and in none meet
than seven or eight offices under the appointment of the
Crown at all.—(Hear hear.)—lt would have been but
fair in the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in consideringi
this part of the case, to have given Government credit
for what they had done to diminish the influence of
the Crown in the colonies. If lie bad acted with ad
much candour, he would have bad to inform the House
of their 'Widen of numerous patent offices compatible
with seats in that House.—(Hear, hear.)—Arreordlng tdt
the existing regulations, no offices could be held by per-
sons who did not go out themselves to the Colonies; and
in that particular, the whole influence of the Crown
bad b en changed and subverted.—(llear.)—The law
which bad wrought this change not only divested the
Crown of the power over 29 offices for political purposes,
but it absolutely turned out twenty-nine persons from
that house. He must next follow the Hon. Gentleman'
to the East Indies; and upon that part of the statement*
he could merely observe in the absence of details, that
when he belonged to that department of the State, It
would have been considered a year of extraordinary bar.
vest, bad any such amount of patronage as he had stated
occurred. The third of what he bad stated would be
nearer the truth; and then it was to be considered, that
this patronage was granted by the Compauy as matter of
grace and favour to the Board of Control, and not to
the Government. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
stated, that the charge of collecting the tie of fifty
millions was four millions at first; whereas in 1780 it
was only one million. Iniirder to place this part of the
question in its true light, it was necessary to look at the
comparative numbers employed, with the amount col-
lected. He held in his band an account of this nature,
for the Customs of the year, 1797, as compared with that
of 1821, and be should have taken his information from
1792, being the more usual year of reference, were it not
that the records for that year had been burnt. In the
year 1797, it appeared that the number of officers em-
ployed last year, 1821, was 6,b64 persons. Tins the in-
crease was -less than 1,000, and the difference in the
amount of revenue collected, was between 11.500,000/.
for the latter year, and 6.000,0001. for the former. The
amount collected, therefore, was double, and the number
employed for that purpose had increased only one-
seventh. An increase of one-third has taken place
in the salaries, but that was principally owing to a
commutation which had been made for fees, but
the influence of the Crown bad in no way been
swelled by.that. It was much the same in the Excise.
In 1792, the number of Officers was 4,093; for the year
1821 it was 5,003. The salaries in the forme • year were
318,0001., in the latter 039,0001., having doubled in amount
from the same cause as he had stated to operate in the Cus-
toms. The revenue in the two cases were 8,120,000/. and
24.617,001 M., showing the increase in the number of persons
employed at less than lOW, with an augmentation in the re-
venue of 18,000,0901. sterling. He next came to the taxes,
which gave a difference of from 3,500,0001. as they were in
1792, and 7,400,0001. as at present. The number of Officers
for the former period was two hundred and twenty, and for
the latter two hundred and eighty-seven. In the Stamps the
difference was from 3,400,0901. to 9,109,0991., and the num-
ber of persons employed was now exactly the cline as then,
viz. 'l4. Thus he was sure it must be of %lons that the whole
regulations of the service, so far from being framed to s.t.-
courage patronage, chewed that the authors of them were in
search of a principle of sound financial administration of the
resources of the country. In the Customs there were cer-
tain regulations as to site observed with regard to all per-
sons admitted, and their promotion took place according to
merit and previous examination. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman said that the Treace' y had extended its grasping
arms into every deparlmeat of the State, and lie particular-
ised the Excise. Now he defied him to mate out this asser-
tion, and he protested against any such being received by
the House. The Board of Excise had as complete controul
over their department now as at any former period, and
every thing relating to that department showed the reverse
of any principle that arrived at patronage. The most cu-
rious part of the Hen, and Learned Gentleman's case was
,where be attempted to establish the existouce of great Crown

I

pablin ratio,. In
'Was obliged to have
e
be - saying 'could one-- liah:ll"l"abolilgersthebhisilitrwlthe:t.h-
-rw, believed, In point of fact, that so far from the Re.
ch'equer processes being increased daring the period be
had alluded to, the taxes had been collected throughout
a period of great and general distress with less recur-
rence to legal processes for the last two years. and
pvr-
detilatly this year, than at any other known time. It
was impassible for him to go into the instances quoted
by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, which. after all.
applied mire to the severity of the law, than to the
question before them; hut be mast say, that if be wished
to derive any benefit from that part of his argument,
built upon a supposed mistaken increase in the number
at Exchequer processes, be must thoroughly. revise it.
The next point of attack was the influence in Paella.
'went from the numher of the officers of the Crown.—
The lion. and Learned tientletnan here stated that the
number if placemen in Parliament at present was
eighty. Here again he tuned ob , that he must be
in possession of more materials for calculation than be
(the Marquess of Londonderry) had access to. as Ita
found himself quite unable to keep pace with him. He
had, however, taken great pains to inform himself on
this subject, and the result of his investigation was,
that there were not more than 47 or 48 persons in that
house rho held offices under the Crown, that could In
any sense he said to give the Crown any influence over
them. fnAted, he thought the lion. and Learned Hew
*lemma motet have drawb largely oft the stores of place-
men around him, to ke able at all to mike out his num-
hers. Ile thought that ha niust have included the Hon.
Member ftqm Caine, and the Hon. Member for Bath,
and also OA Hon. and Member for Peterborough must
! have been to
on the occasion. But upon review-
ing these troops, if they must he mustered, he thought
they did net savour much of that ruinous influence of
the Crown which was represented as bearing down all
before it. He was ready to admit, that constitutional'
jealousy might very properly he entertained towards
a number of persons acting togetl.er, who were very
likely to be actuated by a letting in favour of the
course of politics pursued by each other.—(Cheers.)
He had never complained of such a jealousy being felt,
but he complained that the Hon. and Learned Gent.
should argue, that every thing in the House, except the
Officers of the Crown, was d ing of the utmost
stretch of confidence. He complained of the assumption,
though perhaps the Hon. and Learned Gentleman did
not claim that for himself, of exclusive purity in the
Hon. Members on the other site of the house. But as
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had made such attacks
upon the Parliament, the best way would be to look at
the conduct IA Parliament fromthe very period which
lie chose as his period for comparison, the year 1780.
Looking at that conduct, he asked, whether it bad not
been actuated by a principle to restrain the influence of
the Crown in every point, which could he construed as
capable of corrupt influence, and of placing the influence
of the Crown upon a narrower footing even in Parliament
itself. 'llse Noble Marquess proceeded to take a review of
the different Acts for the abridgment of the influence of the
Crown, since the year 1780. He directed the attention
of the house to the exertions of Mr. Pitt in making the
loans for Government subjects of open competition. In
the giving up much powerful means of rewarding his
own creatures, the Minister of that day could scarc,ly
be supposed to have been actuated by any desire of pa.
teenage. That, as well as other instances, furnished
proofs of large and signal restrictions of the influence
ottithe Crown I:inposed by the Parliament, PO much the
ob set of the lien. and Learned Gentleman's revilings.
The Hon. ant( Learned Gentleman lad otisrstated tlze
late Mr. Rose, in making hint say that Mr. Pitt had re-
duced four or five hundred officers, and created fifteen
hundred. Ile.old no inch thing ; but on the contrary
that 480 had been reduced and 200 and odd created. Mr.
Pitt,in 1804, abolished 196 offices, amounting to 42,0001.
a year, all of which being sinecures of three, four, and
five hundred a year, were those of which a Minister de-
sirous of retaining patronage would beams' loath to part
with. Thus the Hon. and Learned Gent. had alleged
that the increase of offices was proportionate with the
Increase in the ee ; but it was found not to be so.
He bad made similar mistakes in the other parts of his
statement. But looking at what be bad stated, and at
the conduct of Government since the peace, be thought
there would be found a sufficient answer to that part of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's argument which was
intended to prove that Parliament was disqualified from
the discharge of its functions. He bad not yet shewn
to the house in one point of view ail the reductions
which had been made in offices since the peace. He
bad early in the Session shewn that a saving of 150,000..
had been made in such reductions, in consequence of the
Address to the Crown at the end of the last Session.—
But exclusive of that, between the closing of the last
war and the Address of last year, without any call from
the House, Government had made an insestigation into
the different departments of the State, the result of
which was, that 16990fficers had been reduced, and of-
fices suppressed, creating a saving of 300,0001.—(Hear,
hear, hear.)—exclusive of the 150,000/. before stated.—
By thei Bill Odle Hon. Member for Corfe Castle (Mr.
Bankes,) with those already stated, that 2012 persons
had been dismissed, malting a saving of 730,0001. ex=
elusive of that last year. This .hewed that there bad
been no indisposition on the part of his Majesty's Go-
vernment to push the principle of reduction of the in-
fluence of the Crown to every commendable extent.—
And at this period an inquiry Was going on into every
department of public service with a view to reduction,
by Commissioners appointed by Parliament. Having
therefore shewn that every step had been taken that
could consistently be taken, and that the principle was
still in progress to diminish the extent of Government
patronage, unless it was the intention of the Honour-
lable and Learned Gentleman to contend that the patron-
age of die public officers should be taken out of the
hands of Government, and vested in some other quarter,
he thought lie had no foundation on n Bich to rent his
motion. tlutthe Hon. and Learned hlent.had not directed
his shafts against Government alone, he had reviled the
Parliament, and that Parliament, which had saved, not
this country alone, but the world, was now to be degrad-
ed by coming to such a vote. as he had proposed, to them.
If hr had no better means of attacking the conduct
of Parliament than by alleging that it one night agreed
to a Bill fur the repeal of the Malt Tax, and next night
rejected it, he bad better leave it alone. For unless be
meant to say, that a full house was to be subordinate
and of less importance than a thin one, and that all the
apparatus of passing a Bill in that house, the different
stages of which were intended to guard against surprise,
management, and neglect or ignorance, had better be
dipensed with, his argument was good for nothing. The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman said it was odd that that
Rouse should always support the Minister of the day.
If the Ifunourahle and Learned Gentleman would spew
them how a Minister was to go on without the support
of the house, hr would assist him in return to a solution
of the enigma of a House of Commons always supporting
the Ministers. It was that Parliament had always op-
posed itself to those tevolutionary principles which
were aimed to sweep all the institutions of the earth be-
fore them, and cause one universal destruction and dis-
union of the interests and elements of society. It had
saved this country from a foreign enemy, and protected
it against an infatuated party at home. 'Throughout the
whole of the late eventful feign, in which was Involved

0


11 that mu dear to the liberties of this tummy sod
Ulm World. It bed wislueslaed Use steady march. Tim
reolieverst had supported the Crows in all It bad desk
wed it was met the gleamy forebodings of the Hos:
drollness. oar his open spd Wines efforts, that had
loam able to arrest its progress le its wise sod magesal-
mous CO% rum Yet ooteithstaudi mg that it bed coodected
them through a time of modaland neezempled peril.
the Hon. and Learned Gentitated that It was net gush;
Seel to conduct the affairs of tire sallies. It had saved
the character of the country, and he would wrier stead
by and see it degrade itself by such a vote as that prd-
posed by the lion. and Learned Gent. He called spud
the House not to emmtenance this covert moths. for Re-
form. He warned them abet that was the object of it j
and that the Hon. and Learned Gist. would sever be
contented with the Bill for abolishing the petty eases.
he had talked of, nor by the removal of the Members of
that House alluded to by him. If they greeted hint
that motion, he would loon come to them again sod tell
them that he should be unworthy the confidence placed
in him by the House, if he did Dot tell them that nothing
in conformance with the Resolution for dindeishiug the
influence of the Crown could be done, whilst that great
nuisance, Parliament itself, continued to exist. He
weight call upon them to be true in themselves, and ac-
complish a Reform in Parliament, the basis of which was
laid in his Resolution. It was not the influence of the
Crown that he aimed at. lie was indirectly attempting
to sap the foundation of Parliament t well knowing that
if Parliament could be broogbt to stigmatise its owe
character, it would not be long hefore he could achieve
its destruction.—(Hear, hear.)—These were the grounds
upon which he hoped the Hone* weuld pass to the Order
of the Day, mad give no etoteteneetirte the motion of
the Hoo. and Learned Gent.—(Cheering.)
Mr. BENNET 'said, that the Noble Lord bad con-
cluded his speech in the same language as his pride.
eessors bad been accustomed to do. is sewer to simi-
lar motions coming from hie side of the House. He
loped that he would be treated as they had boa toe
the motion in the last Parliament of Mr. Dunning :
'eh. that they would be left in a minority t for be
'felt. aotwithstandieg the speech the Noble Lord bad
just delivered, that the indumee of the Crowe was
too great for the Interests of the people. The es-
pence of collecting the Revenue, which in 1792 did
not meeed a million, was now more than four times as
mach, and the number of persons In civil capacities
were no less than 18,000. The Noble Lad had
called upon them to chew where the branching arms
of the Treasury had extended Into the other depart-
ments of the State. He answered him by pointing to
the Post-otbce, the management of which he knew
something about. Siuce 1793 Go less than 939 offi-
cers had been dismissed the service by the exercise of
the prerogative of the Croon. The Honourable Mein+
her complained that the number of Archbishops and
Clergy increased the influence of the Crown. The Peers
who wade last war were, in g I, persons is that
House who had supported the Clovernment, and being
created Peers. they also added to the intluenee of the
Crown. Mr. Pitt and his party, according to the
Hon. Member's argument. bad greatly injured the
Country by securing the extensive support of platinum
and pensioners. Until that system was abolished no
permanent good could be expected.
h. r. S. WORTLEY said if the Bill of Indictment pre-
ferred by the Hon. and Learned Member against the
House of Commons bad been true, be might have (non
himself disposed to become a reformer, but the Hon. and
Learned Gentlentso had rested his account, of the o'-
fences of Parliament upon false ground. The Hon. and
Learned Member had given reasons for his accusation,
which were not trot. He bad taken part in most of the
discussions to which the Hon. and Learned Member a'-

laded, and he could repeat that the objections rested
upon false grounds. Ihe lion. and Learned Gent. pro-
posed a sew measure to dm -ase the influence of the
Crown; and patting the question on the best ground,
they thought nothiug could be done without Kamm in
Parliament.—(Hear, hear.)—He was ready to meet them
on that point, and contend there was no occasion for re-
form of Parliament.—(Hear, hear.)—He could not see
that the Crown derived undue influence from the House
of Lords. That branch of the Constitution had always

acted with the House of Commons, except in one mem-o-
table instance, when the Cowmoo' wanted to dictate for
the whole country. It had been said the House of Com-
mons had the nomination of Ministers. That cer-
tainly would not be a correct view. If Minister.
proposed useasares to which the house could not
give their assent, and there was no contidence
then he admitted the Government must be changed. On the
death of Mr. Pitt the Government fell to Mr. Fox, and Par-
liament would not have done their duty, if they had not tit en
It to him. Since Mr. Pitt's administration, Parliament had
voted with the popular feelings of the country. The Hon.
Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House, had frequent
opportunities of trying to get into the Government, but some
how or other they were always out-bid upon that question.
Se long as they flattered the worst feelings of the people,
they would be deserted by the good sense of the country .
The Hon. Member opposed the motion.
Mr. Secretary PEEL rose amidst a load cry for the ques-
tion. His object was to-justify his constituents. He under-
stood that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman bad made some
allusion to the distinguished body he had the honour to re-
present. The Hon. Gentleman, he understood, had cast
some odium on that body with respect to the election of a
Noble Lord, imputing their conduct to improper motives.
If there was a public body free from imputedon it was the
University of Oxford. The Hon. and. Learned Gentleman
bad found (writ with the University of Oxford, for having
elected Lord Grenville to the Mlles of Chancellor. it could
not be denied that Lord Grenville had large claims.—(llea r.)
—The public principles of Lord Grenville, his attach:nevi
to the established religion of the country, his uniform -
sition to the French Revolution, mid his character as
the most eminent scholars, made it impossible to it
thing unfavourable to the University of Oxford. H'
was considered Lord Grenville had Lord Eldon for ,
ponent, all suspicion of partiality on the part of the
versity must vanish.
Mr. WETHERELL also defended the Univet
Oxford.
Mr. BROUGHAM, in reply, said, the Right
Member for the University of Oxford had ce
sliewn a laudable di sire to defend his constiturn
the Right Hon. Gentleman was misinformed. li
sidered Lord Grenville a proper choice fur the I
situ. The Noble Lord had all the dccomplisbuti
quality him for the high office to which he was el
hut he had said that• had it not been for that
Lord's near approach to power, he would not
been elected. He considered that election au in
of the power of the Crown out of doors. The Hot
Learned Gentleman having shortly replied to the
topics of debate, the house divided—
For the amendment 216 t—For the motion
Majority against the motion, I ll
The other orders of the day were then postponed,
the Mouse adjourned at half-past twelve o cluck.

I

• Sae& a 4. ne tAISMAI4.,
that it was rieessive new. His ttsntistat shaking the idlest* kw tkirtY lingua Old tie the
cosepariw it, however, was not eta sus, try taking tho orde► to assist his swimsuit bore. be 'w
automat el the mesas is the grill% 604 the comforsti" reeeerie se the Ruiligmer pneessee.
numbers of the army and navy. That Was net treating rated a very Name, tow argument
the "pasties open its owe hauls, sot cowing se bowleg et, which ee the .eeethte
mach to close . quarters as he could have wished.— he need for
Baying he
cold
sot
et
af "

T.....
•
•
.1
•
I 1
/

111111.1.Y.Ge
rni opvu-
is one of
infer any
When tt
or hie op-
the UM;
ersity of
bt Hon. .4
:mainly
•nts, bet
He con.
1; airer-
•
Aleuts to
elected;
t Noble
lot have 4A 1
instance I
lon. and
he other
101;—
led, and