The Statesman.
London, England, 1821-03-01 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN,

saying, that this was neither a fair nor a candid, not
a manly way of meeting the question. Was it or was
it not a measure which the House onglit to entertain ?
Was it dangerous? Was it unconstitutional? If met
on these grounds, he could understand the opposition
to the measure he should propose. If ally one should
meet him with the unmanly objections to which he had
alluded, lie would ask, " why did you not come to lIIP,
and assist me in framing a measure more consonant to
your wishes. If you have that within you which would
perfect my proposition, and render it unexceptionable,
why do you wrap yourself up in nentrality, and then
object to the little ifitferences which may exist between
the parties who seek relief." The question wits entitled
to a more manly and candid reception. ktow did the
Catholics cane forward ? Not to attack the Constitu-
tion. They came under the Con‘titution itself. They
came as loyal subjects of the King, with their Petitions,
humbly praying that they should exercise the rights and
privileges of their ancestors. They came upon all the
known, and tried um' proved principles of the Constitu-
tion. Under such circumstances, any measure pro-
posed, out;!.; not to he met io its detail, but upon its
broad end general merits. What he meant to propose
was, that the House should tzu into a Committee, to
consider the details of the laws affectiliv. the Catholic
subjects of the realm. It was iii` own most confident ex-
pertation,tha t the I lanse wool,' consent to his proposition;
avid that continence was not a Wile increased, when

he remembered that lint more than ovo years ago,' a
majority of that House conkented to the eppointment
of a earlier Committee. At another pernill, numbers
nearly amounting to a majority, agreed to measure*
r•rommentled in that Committee; and if there had not
b.: •n gross impropriety of routine on the part of
so ne who called themselves friends of Catholic F.man-
cipation, these measures would have been carr'ed
This tool.: place at a time w/en the country was reeling
to its very centre in the heaviest storms ; and he wateld
not believe that any one && ho given their euffetee
for those me:mires in the hour of dan err, would be
dirposed to refuse them at the pres•nt time. lie was
sure it could nit be forgotten by the general mind.
that proud as the exertions of the people had been in
bringing the late mighty contest to a conclusion. none
had more dietieguished themselves than the- Roman
Catholics.—(llene, hear.)—lle was sure he ahunid
have nothing of hostility to encounter in the nppe-
sition he ahonld meet. The general feelitse both in
and out of that (louse, upon which the opposition was
Cronopleil, was an idea of the 'lancer whi•ds might
attend such a course. Therefore, not expre.ing to be
enconntereil by any thing but that sense of danger, he
wenld prneeeii to state his r7ews upon the Inestion.
Ile would divide it into three dietinet propositions
—namely, its bearings upon Relieion, upon the
Constitution, and upon the policy of the country.
He feared br should have to call too largely upon the
patience of the Honfe.—((lear. hear, hear.)--ife
should, however, only have to occupy a short portion
of its time upon the first division of the question,
merely as it affected because he was not
called on to go into any great depth upon that sub-
ject. Great praise was due to a high pers 'nage for say-
ing in another place, that he had no objection to the
Claims of the Catholics being granted, on the score
of religion. It was only upon political grounds that
ilaw,er ;night be apprehended. These doctrines had
been declariel by the Right Rev. Personae, to whom
he Minded, before the Rev. Bench whom he address-
ed, with no expressed dissent whatever on their parts.
lie would make a few observations upon the Act of
Charles 11. which reqvired certain pledees from per-
sons holding the ltonette Catholic faith, who entered
into aity office of State. To say that this was pro-
vided with any reference to rtliginn, appeared to hint
to be a course calculated in itself to tae away the
very principles which coteeienteel religion. It was
merely resorted to as a State affair, anti the pledge was
consequently required when persons entered upon the
offiere of State. If the interests of true reli-
gion required it, why was it confieed to this country?
Why was: not an oath imposed upon all persons filling
similar &lice• in other twions? Why was it not
resorted at in Catholic, in 3lahometan, in Paean
countries ? Nil man cash! maintain that in
principle, the inter.atts of religion called for
any such. ail or defence. If a contradic-
tion to what he then a•lvenred should lie at-
tempted,..why, he woe;:! :isle, was not a lenitive de.
cloration required? Why was it not necessary fir a
persan to declare that he helievell in the existrnre of
a (lot! ? Why not call tipon !tins to acknowlelge his
conviction of the true Ineleemer ? Why not expert
him to declare that he believed in a future state?
None of these things were required. he ntate acted
as an electrifying power 111;on religion, but it was all
negative electricity an:l positive.—(llnch cheer-
nog.) And why, he won'. 1 ask, were the Roman Ca-
:holies lo b • select:d as the ugly class to be de-
no.-teed ? Why dish they not denonnee the Mahoune-
tan, the Paean, and the Jew? A men might w••rsltip
Jupiter, Osiris, a ereendile, the best of !leaven, or
the ereeeing of the earth.— and the s. sly Ir%.
Chi:ii.)ll to b • made was al:anise Roman Cath:slies,
whose faith merle- centaiued shades of difference
front that of the Pratestant himself. These only were
shut lint from the &dives of State, and only because
they helieved something more in their Iteligiou than
the Prtyte.tants ind. They were char:eel with super.
sti:ioa and idolatry on areanat of then- men ice of the
Mass. Now lie would ask tiratleto.n who made these
ohjectione, what the service of the Mass was? and if
ail would enira;e to support his proposition who
could not ateover that qnestiou, lie was sure be should
carey it with an overwisciming majority.—(A !Anglo
tie would snake one or two observations upon this
suhject as far as he understood it. Ti e• sacrament
of the letters Supper was in commentoratiou of
his sacrifice for the salvation of mankind, and
was held by certain persons to be efficacious
for their spiritual welfare. As far as this went,
he found no diffienity. But then it was said
that Roman Catholics believed in tie act nal presence
of the body of Christ. If it were true that they he•
tiered this, it would be a proposition so diametrically
opposed to all natnril laws and principles. that he for
one, should be ready to reject it. But the Roman Ca-
tholics themselves said they believed in no such. thing.
'I hey. indeed, declared that in a sense it was present.
What this sense wos, be ronfersed he did not know.—
But this was neither idolatry nor superstition. Such
was reit tie conclusion of the great
.an.l celebrated
Queen Elilabath, although she slid not believe la it.
'llse wisdom which she diapLaved in the. ,disposal of
this qnestion, might be .'traced in this ar. &jags of
Bishep Burnet, in his, His,tory of the lleSeentatlon.r.
It %vas the design of the Qnzett to Quite

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the nation in one faith. A great part
•of the peril'''•
continued to believe in the presence, therefore dial she
allow it no remain a speculative opinion, upon which
every man might be allowed the exercise of his
free opinion." But Queen Eligabeth had the true art,
or rather the genie` of governing her people fur their
general good. Therefore it was, that although she
did nut believe in these opinions, she altered the Li-
turgy as it had been established by Edward the Sixth
for the purpose of accommodating the different faiths
and intere:fta of her subjects. This was her object, as
Bishop Burnet had said, and with such-views, the
whole reformation was established. if this belief was
cow to be charged on Roman Catholics as superstition
and idolatry, it really became monstrous to consider,
what hail been done. In Ireland, Roman Catholics
were admitted to be Brand .furors and itlagistratea.—
What then dial they do, accordingto the previous doc-
trine? Why, after making them take an oath that they
were Catholics, anal consequently idolaters, they left
them to tax, and to dispoae of the lives of Christians
He next came to the Coustitutional bearing of the
question. And what he meant to contend was this,
that admission to all aelices of the state was the right
• Patsy leige subject of the King. For the establish-
tatiof that right he should not touch epon the lie-
Urination nor upon the Revolution. The causes of the
receptions made against the Cathelies at the It?voln-
t4mn were only of a temporary nature, and had long
fame ceased to exist. Time first plestion then was, e he-
titer the Roman Catholics were not the liege subjects of
' the king? He would ask what shut them out? There
could be nothing hut their assertion of the spiritual
supremacy of the Pope. Now let then examine to
what this inference would teed. If the law, as it re-
garded the oath of Supremacy, could have this inter-
pretation, then there never was a liege suij..et in
England before the reign of Henry VIII. because, up
to tl; st period, this country bad always aeknowledged
the spiritual supremacy of the Pope. Then they must
determine that up to that period England b;iii hems a
nation of outlaws—Magna Cherie had been ob-
tained by outlaws—and the Revolution of I 61":4 hail
been accomplialied by outlaws.—(Laud Cheering.)—
According to that doctrine, the,. nos not a Catholic
nation of Europe whose Slonareb ruled over as much
as one liege subject—(finch cheering.}—What was
this supremacy ? The Roman Cat! " •ii admitted,
that in all the states of the realm—.ll the coastitnted
authorities, all the civil and ecclesiastical establish-
ments were without the jurisdiction of the. Pope, and
that it was only in lairitu al affairs that be was held su-
preme. Ile could nut give a stronger illustration of
the subject, than by supposing the case of a person
who held conscieetions doubts upon nor part of his
conduct or habits of life. Ile wauld then consider
that a refasten .e to the Pope was necessary, and Isis de-
claims would regulate his mode of living. it was well
known that ne held the rights of marriage within
certain degrees of consanguinity, which a Roman Ca-
tholic w..ulal not consider lawful. Ile wonld declare
such persons to be living in a state of sin, But he
would not deny the rights of the children horn in such
a marriage, nor any of her lawful rights connected with
it : and if any ow should interfere with those rights,
a Roman Catholic Priest would feel bound in duty to
visit such interference with the spiritual censure.—Bet
they slid not claim the exercise of that spiritual con-
' aleinnation beyond their own sect. lie most own,
therefore, that it was with some degree of regret that he
heard the same Right Reverend i.erson to whont
he had before alluded, lay down the principle
that the oath of solariums affected the Consti-
tutional rights and privileges of th . nation.
lie s dal Bra the Roman Catholic yielded that to
the Pope which the Paotestaut would yield to no per-
•un. Therefore he deducted that a civil distinaliliea•
Lion exisaed. Timis was what Locke had called "see-
ing a little, presuming a great deal, and then jumping
to a conciusion." It really would become those per-
soh, who male such cslijertions us those he was then
combating to demonstrate that lino of demarcation
which shut out •individuals from the comassam protec-
tion of their country, on account of their degrees of
rails. It was said, tisat the deficiency of the Scotch
Church was not sufficiently great, hot that the defi-
ciency of the Roman I 'atholics arrived at that very ex-
act &zee, which waauld shut them out Prow the Con-
s:itteion. In metaphysics, this was entitled civil
worth. Ile dial nut know what watmeant by this
new fangled phrase of civil worth, n. less it was that
all the grand immaterial attributes of truth, justice,
wisdom. were to hr excluded from :he qualifies'.
Cone of time hin,z's liege subjects. Because all
pe-snua, however eminently possessing them, it' they
held the doctrines 'if Supremos, were to be shut out,
while others, who held neither the former nor the
latter, were left to the enj .yinent of the full benefits
of the Conatitutioa. 'I he security of the Constitution
eonsi•tel in the power of the Monarch to select those
who were :nest wte•thy to fill the utfiees of the State,
ant to exclual • tho a. who were unworthy. How then
were SJ loree a por:i an of the community as the
lioulaus Catholics cutup ased, to be separated from the
hoar of the nation, and tam he she: out frees the choice
of the Monarch, in violation of these pi ineiplea, which
he ailriumal to be the principica of the Constitntion ?
Ile spoke in the presence of sound Constitutional
Lawyers, mot men who were thoroughly acquainted
with tar history of the country. and he was open to
contradiction. In our free llonarchy every subject
had the right of all the franchises of the State. If
nut, we no longer lived under a free Monarchy.
The Right lion. Member then read a long passage
from the works of Lord Baron, which went to sup-
port his argument. There was nu part of our his-
tory so vulgarly abused as that which related to time
Reformation. '1 1:2 Act of Amlnsoni:ion of Queen
Elisabeth was introduced, for the purpose of 'cps.
rating,those wiei were loyal front the unluyal; and be-
cause that Princeissayould not suffer the subjects of
her ancestors to lie ruled by any foreign Sovereign.
The sth of Eiisabeth was an explanation of the Act
of Supremacy :—lt said that, la whereas the Queen is
always aufficiently assured of the loyalty of all her
subjrcta who were Barons in Parlianteut. this Act does
nut extend to them. &sc." This proved that the Act
of Supremacy was not considered as a fist of religion,
but of loyalty, as the Act declared. Together with
this legislative exposition. be would recommend to
lientknnen not acquainted with it, also to look at the
writings of Walsiagham, stko sleelsord that the tura-
s:oeurtresni.t.
irvestpontihtpletsedvttribgese-oithowsie.e.iest
vneenttioaut
he
uwpereisionsietsuristsl7ll,letualplit:
bet
to •
usument. arising fruits tar

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iu enemies and
wistiont.aul
causes. 'They
tttfloiereirgesn muelnteof es and other immediate
applicable to the changes which were then taking !flaw.
He confidently hoped that our present Sorereir„
would exercise his Royal wisdom in the same manner.
His Majesty was not called upon to alter any priuci.
pks upon which he had kith •rto acted, but to men
the changes and colmequent necessities which had
arisen with the course of time. There was a remark.

able case in the reign of Charles 11. .f Sir 3. Swale,
who was a Roman Catholir, and was expelled from

the I:onse of Commons in 1677. Ile was not expell4
for being a Roman Catholic, but for being. a papki
recusant convict. Therefore, 110%111 to that penal,
the Reformation hail not excluded Rotnan Catholics

I

from sitting in the Parliament. At the time *btu its
13th of Charles the Second was passed, he was sip,
peeted of being a Roman Catholic, and his presuinp.
Cite successor notoriously professed that faith. Now,
here there was danger, and therefore bad the Art bee.
passed, not as a test, but for the purp..ses of exclusion,
Ile might be asked, why was it not afterwardsrepeaw?
lie would answer, because a recurrence of dangerwas ap.
prehentled. The fear of Popish ascendancy was hanging
over the country for a considerab:e period, aml operated
as Bishop Burnet said, to continue the restrictians
upon the Boman Catholics. There were one or two
facts, not, as he believed. generally known, which he
would take the liberty to read. In the Gth of Anne,
an Art was passed appointing certain Comm:ssioners,
iu whidt a clause wits introduced. disabling them Irma
giving their support to any measure for repealittg the
Act of Uniformity. It was proposed also to introduce
into that Act a clause far disabling them is a like

wanner from c.susenting to a meal of the 13th of
Charles 11. They next came down to the Cable, at
which vine it was exiiressly agreed that that Act, to-
gether ss ith the Text Act, should remain in forested(
Ilse Parliament of England should tske the subject
into its cirisideration. Subsequently, at the Irish
Union, the same stipulation was untie : and now he
called upon the House m discharge its betesdest duty,
by coming to that consideration. Ile railed upon it,
upon all the principles which bad been ay.swell by Pie,
fry Ei.x. by Sheridan, by IVindhani, and by all the
great names whose spirits had buoyancy enough to
bear them down the stream of time. lie appealed
to theut whether lie had not triumphantly rebutted
all the objections tehich had beets hitherto thrown
wit against the measures which be proposed. When
he saiiltriumpliantly, lie coalitisut imply a iyipersonal
feeliags of triumph, for lie could not look round bins
without thinking of the friends which be bad los+,
sieee he last haul the honour of delivering his
sentiments upon the present question. nese was
alr. S. Whitbread, the steady sentinel if t .e ro-
k's rights—the ininaatured splendour whirls was
bursting from the public and private virtues of Sirs.
ttomilly—the lamented Mr. Pousitsby, the Mewl alike
of the Crown and of the people—the drawing geniis
of Mr. Homer—the sound constitutional doctrines of
Sir Arthur Pigott, and that pattern of what aristocra-
cy should be, Mr. Elliott. When he considered that
they were still as if walking in the funeral procession
of those great men, be could not Mingle any thing like
feelings of triumph with the solemn discharge A lull
duty. He now came to a part of the sehjeet which
would leave the whole imperfect if it were is .t toadied
upon. There were many respectable people who
thought there were 'measures dangerous to the Coati-
tutiou likely to grow out of the present proposal.. If
he, for one, were of that opinion, he could ot.lr sae,
that dear to his heart as was the subject now bike
the (louse, he would abandon it at once. Therefore
it was that he implored the house to consider the pre-
sent question coolly and dispassionately. When he
recollected the oprosition which lie was prepared
lowa from the. Right lion. Alemi,er for Oxford. Ile
expected all those early prejudices which had bees im-
bibed by the Right Honourable (tenth-man. It might
probably be said the Church was in danger; and really
if he were asked the question, he could not cooseleoh-
onsly say the Church was not in danger.—(llear, bear.
hear !)-llut time danger lay in the foundation; fa the
narrowness of the basis. 'the people were not connect-
ed with the State.—(Cheets.)—lt might be asked, toe.
that admitting the danger, where was the protection
be alfordsel if they adopted this measure ? He world
answer, that every safety would be ensured by its adop-
tion, which would be uncertain by its rejection. be
would confidently affirm that there was no danger Let
such as he had stated. There were &age's, he admitted;
but some were unfounded, and many were exaggerated.
large majority of the people of Ireland were
of a religion different from the State, and )et that ma-
jority contributed to the *rapport of the Established
Church. They were necessarily in rotetunsis with
the Church of Rome, and therefore were not connected
with the State. And yet, by an anomaly in the (tome.
went, many of those persons were substatiti:dly admitted
into potter ; they were admitted un the serurity of
r
oaths imposed by the Government. lie great inajosity
were rejected, not so much by the voce of reasons,
by the arm of power ; while some of theist were in the
pus.. ...ion of privileges held by oaths, laic% it was ar-
gned email not hind them. The Right lion. tientlemin
argued, that if those persons were true to their
they would attempt to subvert the present es.ablisiesece.
and probably they would attempt it. What then aro the
wisest course to be taken by the beeislatnre? They
were bound to prevent sus it a subversion, by grin,.
ing a just concession : and for this they were jo.-
titled in precedent by the Scottish Cisme.
aimlitawt atisietratititi.:l:.rastiotlnie
olflotilstieanprCeasetlalie
present
estis
arids boundisiiness t
..
it
was their duty to attempt the destruction of his religion.
If this subverts lye spark remained in his bosom, it was
their duty to extinguish it;
for the presieut prieri-
of intuleration rebounded upon enrich-es. Bet lie
denied that they pearlised any such spirit. The IVO%
lion. Gentleman opposite insist know that the Scoui-1.3
precedent was an argument in favour of the Cat' Ole
Claims; for it was a fundamental principle of the lags
of the empire. And in truths, the Roman Cathislie
taro
inure thought of disturbing those laws than Ise thiroglil
of depriving his neiehliour of Isis property; and lie
wisely preferred Protestant ascendancy with s..enriirs
to
Catholic ascendancy with danger. lie would rsk upon
what authority it was that this stigma had hero branded
upon the Roman Catholic ? What had thr *mid Sr
written, or done to warrant it ? But the Right Hoe.
Member opposite said he was bound to exclude the Hu-
. of their lwi.l it
man Catholics upon the princiul
to all the feelings of human 1111. aro. He ( ['Hinkel
could nut fitsii in the %ohmic of human nutette isny
which railed upon the ltomnn Catholic to surrender Is'a
conscience and his reason. merely that his priest might
gain a mitre. Indeed the Right lion. I ientlemall cote
much nsistouk the nature of man in niaLie.: such aq ae-
sertiosi ; far the Constitution was always us tile wo ear-
cure by being made generally beneficial to 'hose d
liked under it. s
lli s . however, fie rem( in his nu, ce.tire:
lie read ths? if a DM were fr 1111 l constitutional
henelits, el% because lie entertained vertasaisrAi.ian't

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"to;oro :if be tn.i hlarhihttenweretoheioteidereda
• ; ;hen, indeed, he (Mr. P.) Wad that thOest wee
• foarful principle in human nature which reidered
that man's exclusion a danger to the Sate. But
where "enii
.difference between the Right Hon. oe:t-
-ee:Han int/ himself ? He (Mr. Plunkett) would pro-
wyse * Committee of Inqniry. -His ultimate object
raid he to render the app intitient of Catholic Bishops,
sutler the con!ronl of the State ; and thns at once re-
:ieve the grievance nail ensure the loyalty of the Ca-
Rut the Right lion. Gentleman wanted to
'ems the !natter as it was. He was in like with his
danger. But he (Mr. P.) would tell the Right Hon.
Gentleman, that the remedy was to incorporate the
‘..;atholic with the State, and to render his privilege
oor own security. He would have this accomplished
by every thing binding upon the conscience of the Ca-
; by removing every invidious distinctions, with-
out adding even a feather to his power. lie.(Mr. P.)
would say, "Connect the Roman Catholic with the
Etrlblislinient of the State, take away the brand from
bis fo -head, and the shaCkles from his legs, and leave
in a situation the proudest on the earth, that of a
!oyal E.rglisL subject." He intreated the House
out to rject this proposal—a proposal at once of grace
a-1 of justice. He intreated them not to send the
t atholic from their liar and tell him that he ought not
to be relieved. The Right Honourable Gentleman had
truly statrol that the Roman Catholics were advancing
to a situation of eminence in the State. Their num-
lo,rs, their wealth, their respectability, their sitnations
oor Beets and armies, all showed that they formed a
...onsiderable portion of what were tjustly called the
shears of political power. Their demand was justice,
.oid the ci y of the meanest individual for justice, be
pas persinoled, wonld find a bearer in every nun
v.ithin these walls, and every honest man willioo•
tilem. Ile would say one word more if the patience of
the House teas not exhausted.—lt might be iir.,cd
that there would ha danger in admitting the i.rinci;•le
of contession, but what did the argument mean ? The
ILight Hon. Gentleman admitted also that Geo re was a
point at which restriction should stop, and concession
Should begin, Where then was that point ? The
liight lion. Gentleman would contend that that point
seas fixed in the rear 1793. But if the me:Ii;;In had
been so critically hit at that period; where was the
.lecessit v fur the subsequent alterations ? Why itllow
shear to be Grand Jurors, and to fill other otfiees of
honour ? Why not allow the same Fivileges to the
English' Catholic!, who, front their situation, their
dignity, and their patience, were equally entitled to
thew.--{Bear, bear.)—The House ought not to object
to a. Conlaiittee for tbe relief of the English Catholics.
Ender the English Laws a Catholic ought to be a
holder of land, which, under some circumstances,
would enable hint in effect to return Members to that
House, although he could not sit in it himself. Indeed
if he were O. go through all the distinctions of absur-
dity in the present system, he should exhaust the pa-
t:etice of the Hons... The lawn permitted the Irish
Catholie to be cawed to the Bar. The Country wit-
tteF!sA li;s talents and their honourable applicatio3 in
practice. hey encouraged Itiw ; an-I as hen they
found bins advancing towards the well-earned reward
of his labours they stepped him shorts checked his
honourable ambition, and left him in the utmost de-
spondency. Was this just ? was it hottouraile
He had the honor to be acquainted with many of the
CatholicUentlemen of the Irish Gar,and lt? knewthcm
Mt be as loyal and as zealously attached to the Con-
siltation as any of his Majesty's subjects. But it
was not on their behalf he spoke. lie spoke in Ist•-
belief the Protestant Bar, far its members were anxious
th,t this invidious partiality should be removed.—
(Cheers)--The question was, where concession should
begin; for if it were clear that the present restri:-
liens were proper, the Roman Catholics had certainly
no right to complain. The principal object he had in
-slew, was the removal of the Oath denying transobstan.
tiation and the modification of the Oath of Supremacy
lTbe Right Hon. 6. at. was here so exhausted that he sat
down for a few seconds to recover himself before read
ing his motion. 'I he universal cheers of the House
continned until lo* rose again, when he moved—" That
the house do revolve 'itself into a Cotnutittee of t.:e
whole House for considering the state of the laws with
respect to the lining of Hikes, so far as those laws affect
lionnu Catholics ; and for considering the expediency
of altering or modifying the same."
Mr. DENNIS BROWNE seconded the motion.
Mr. PEEL said be hoped it was always unnecessary
for him to assure the Right Hon. Gentleman that no-
thing should induce him to attempt to answer his ar-
ruments, under any circumstances, as that I:ight lion.
Gentleman must possess overpowering advantages ;
but, on tloe present oceasion,ise i•ati answered a speech
rustle by him (Mr. Peel) four years ago, on the dis-
cllision of the tines:ion it,ov before the house. The
Ghat lion. Gentleman had the advantage of tearing
to Orces every argument which be (Mr. Peel) had urg-
e.s.. on toot occasion. The House might therefore ima-
Oae under what apurelootsion it was that he (Mr.
Peel) ruse to follow that Right lion. Gentleman. .lie
would shortly allude to that to which the Right lion.
Gmtlnnan bad himself first alluded. He meant the
arectionate duty which had been shewn to the memory
et a departed friend, under whose auspices the pre-
‘rat question hail been so powerfully supported. In
toe warns tribute which had been paid to the memory
of .dr. Grattan he most cordially joined. it might
teem arrogance in him to follow the Right Honourable
Gentleman in the terms in which he bad spoken. and
Le therefore would rocbcar to do so ; but if he subscribed
to all that had been advanced by the Right lion. Gen-
tleman in praise of Mr. Grattzn, it would eonvinee'all
ho heard him that the Rt. lion. (lent. opposite had not
been seduced by the partiality of friendship. No man
more than hints. 4 could admire Mr. Grattan, al:hough
h:. (Mr. P.) bad the misfortune to be his opponent on
the principles of bin subject under discussion. The un-
onesoonable integrity of Mr. Grattan had endeared him
10211; and the desperate fidelity with which he ad-
hered to the present question was the strongest proof
c: I.'m political consistency. But he thought that while
t!ie House would agree wttn him in praise of the excel-
..nee of of Mr. Grattan, It world also be of opinion with
lion, that the cause he advocated had found a worthy
s..ceessor in the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. After
*Or preface he would proceed to notice the speech of
tt r Right lion. Gentleman opposite, and in the mutet lie
s;lotthl observe, that if any man supposed he wished to
ailwal to those passions semi prejudices which had been
;laded to by the Right lion. Member, that nun was
• n.;• ler a delusion, for he declared an opinion which in-
:rod %%mild he a repetition of a former opinion, that ill
,Ise present restrictive laws we had only a choice of

.INI
..Ib.i.b .

E STATESMAN.

•

--.

minammonnsonanwimsmonmoommmmm"...."llll.
..vile. The *fete of society was anomalous ; anal ,h. I sit in that House; and certainly there was no greater eoulal nntaloubt that ancient animosities would he revered.
course silopteri was necessaty, though he I''ss free to reasen for keelnaling them. Foreign or papal in- If a reform in the representative system of the king-
confess it was not satisfactory. He shotild proceed to darn.be.with respect to t em, an
ce could not dreaded h d slom were to take place, tending to abridge the terms
state his dissent from some of the propositions of the of the existence of each Parliament, it wottla h
Right Hon. Member. Did the Right lien. aiember certainly a more estimable class of turn he had never
impossible not to anticipate a great interruption of th •
suppose that he looked at the state of drings of the known in his life. The?' "ern in all respects a just, domestic concord of the country in the more frequee
year 1793, with any satisfaction ? Was it possible that loyal, humane and charitable class of people--(Cheers) revival of the refigioue feelings which would then be called
he could hear the names which had been mentiuned by He was asked what danger he feared would accrue to into action at evrry election hustings in ;he country. A..
the Right Hon. Member, as disapproving of that state the present generation from the repeal of these acts. he had before said, he hail a difficult task to perform air •
of things, and yet declare that Ise was satisfied? The His answer was, that be was not guiug to form a this occasion, having so often delivered his sentiment.
present duty, he conceived, called upon the House to ex- It• •,, before in that House ; anal lie again begged to assure fa. •
tit t. fo th
ems u ion r e present day. He was going w
offline anal re-examine all their former opinions; and if I Mew, that in deciding upon this question, the gronnula
frame a system of laws which he believeul would be
eon-
they still conscientiously adhered to those opinion, of his decision were by no means determined by leis
they might reasonably doubt the infallibility of the irrevocable by future ages ; and when they were mak- nection with any party or any individuate. ,He spoke in-
great Authorities which had been quoted by the Right ing laws, they had a right to look at the history of alepently of all, anal had ttoi even taken the pains to 4!••
Hon. Mover. The Right Hon. 31eitaber stated his con- the past as the best guide to be obtained through the certain what might be the sentiments of others. ale
ception, that constitutionally every subject had a right unknown paths of futurity.• In referring to times ulc'erinined on ,
as on all other quentions. aeronlinlC
to fill an office, and that it was unconstitti- past, he did
tional lo exclude him. He (Mr. Peel) contended. • denten broucht in his 11111, he assiated him that, shoal; 1
mouldering ashes of religious feuds and exacerbations,
against that position. He would appeal to authoritythe people of Englasal, contrary to what they ought to
which were in the present day known by uanie
equal to that which bad been adduced by the Right s b
not his
nc was
11011, Member. He thought the Right Hutt. Gentle- •
sincere in the purpose he hail stated. The Right thing but the deliberative wisdom of that liouse.—(hear•
man would agree with him, that if it was right to ad lion. (ientleinan (Mr. Plunkett) said, that as a reason hear, hear.)—If he thought this navaeore 4.0014.1, with
mit the Catholic, it was right to admit Coe Protestant
, for the c ambulance of the existing restrictions in the safety, lie adopted. not the whole voice of Lnglatel
Dissenter. In fact to grant the proposed relief to tne
, .should prevent him from giving it his support.—
time of Queen ElizJbeth that there was a Popish plot'
Catholics, would be an admission of the necessity of ' ' • lle should here conclude what lie haul to say to the
orbit+ dial not exist liana In the reign of Charles 11.
repealing the Corporation and Test Acts.—(Hear.)— 1 • • House, by assuring them that no result of that debate
there
.was au crawl danger from the Klan bins,. t 111
Here it was that all the great authorities is question - ' cetild give him teiliedilied plc .snrr. lie was bound to
feting impreper members for his Council. In the '
left the Rix lit Ilan. :Member. 31r. Pitt declared tbak wish that those opiniuste which he advocated might
ne of James ii. it was said there was another species
lie cousidered those Acts the bulwark of the constitii"7 prevail. If they dial, that sort of satisfaction which
Of daneer—lie was profeeseally attached to thy Raman
tion, and he objected to the principle of their repeal. '. ,• .7 -•* .I • I lie could nut but *it e from the circumstance, would
I•einem:es. In the re:gn of %Valiant 111. there was mil ,
Mr. Burke also, on a great suecasion, n.lien that prin- oe tem iereal by the reflection, that it was tantamount
dart ter. But it was t-.) he remarked, there was nothiag • .1 , • : , . - of
ciiste camas under discussion in that House, staid away I .
feared .. .. ' • to a rejection of time claims of a great poi torn their
was
Hut fa be from the Pope in test day; nothing from
Irani the debate, obseri.ing, that he really deserviito fellow-stiViects.--(licar.)-1 1, un the con-
the bigotry or intolerance of the Pope; but still there
able to make his mind up on the question. An alterof trarv, thee sentiments of the Hi 'hi lion. 3lover shou°4
was su_ficielt danger to warran the
_continuance h .
authority had been aittoted is ith much confidence. Ithe triumphant. he assured the llouse that no one would
the. Catholic restrictions. 'Tie danger wide
rejoice
WA% Illaiitt•III", who had been quoted in aid of Howl- more than he should to tee all his predictioas
tarn authorised our truant:lig ourselves in a similar
in-
let'. Ilut the Noble laird who quoted Blackmone a ! :,noted false; and ail his equine:lts refuted by the h
I donee till •
the
t at time, was the 'ear -
:multi searceiy lieve rea•l the whole of the chapter from way,i as we
of at: creasing emicard of the two sects.—( --(lime Right 11 a-
n power atm Fourteenth on the Con-
which lie li ad refeereal. Mr. Justice Blarkstone ub- nostrahle li..atleinan sat down amidst Loud and gene-
finest. Frain tlatsed examples drawn fluor
tai Clieema.)
served, that when the Roman Catholics disclaimed
past,. then be Lad a right to say? !halt.
rif at
the te lea t. :i scri bed to them, the Penal Statutes might be the
fiSir JAMES MACKINTOSH commenced by observ-
ve perm I. of our *story, there were live a went .
relief% ed ; butt i: did out follow from this passage thatinc• that if the Right Hoe. tient. whaa had just eat down
alanrere to be miaaltel against, he had a ridge to as-
time exclittlillZ Acts should be also removed. The con- • r• that ," •
of -
mne, a nee ger a nature not to ue airmen in felt reason to refer to the disadvantages lie laboured tine
teary was evident, fur Blacketune went on tu speak of • • • ti
w. present day, might trine. up in future tunes. It I der, in having to follow so powerful a speech as that of
the excluding Acts as applicable to all Diesetaters.— • • ". . ~ . .
had been said, si hat hall the State to do with rcitg. un: ; the mover of their greet question ; if lie (Mr. Peel)
The authority of Illackstune was therefore cleerly i
u In reply, it nalgiat be said, that when religion hail no- I should here Ibl:eight he had reason to complain at being
aaa'.ast the repeal of the excluding laws. lie whu.ht, i , -
thing to do aids the State, the State uuuld have no• tallied upon to rise immediately alter the great display
in reference to time History of England, commence I . • . . • ,
passing by
the
period
at
whirls i thing to do with religaun. But how mould it be of the rroaigious talents of his Bight lion. Prierie, who
with the Reformation; shenai Iliat religion was net connected with atfa!rs of .
I had riften been admired for IA commanding power's,
the Roman Catholic was the established Religion oft State? Could it be infa rred front the pages of the ; never so greatly exercised an upon this night, when Ito
the country. The Act of the Ist of Elizabeth required I .
m History of England, of Feed:nal, or of Irelanal, the -s' • ' A►; sclr time te-'est master of eloarience an:l reae
every persin in alfice to take an oath,Am._ _. : • Lew(•a .m.um .g
not only that nu I three History
of this(nude e a I• lel
other person bad jurisdiction in this kingdom, but, I . •
the: c •,... • .
%., ••• ll ' . "c • suiting now exime.sug its 'medic lif,•, how attach more au
i.t• eines i a coma say teat aniougst
affirmatively, that Queen Elizabeth had jurisdiction "en-ing. be (Sir J. 11.icklutcsli) imitled to crave their huh&
the motives which indueneed man as a political ineiti-f
spiritual as well as temporal. The sth of Elizabeth whin his duly was to follow in expressing a ceat-
bee of the State, red aii had nat its blare% in the genre; '
required every Knight, Citizen. and Bargees to take i
words
of the 11.11
of It L.'l. Itei.o.i,
it 6,4..4 a ;,...t off cisleace of opinion nit!. a wan who had exhausted every
a similar oath. The question was, v:s uhl the Romanl part of Ida .o..vet.—(:lady)—Tbe Right Hououreble
, the Con,:itutissu of this a- lute:). s lie .rctimembeired il •
Catholics of the present day la" tats "In -:
' i wasals of the :light ;imam'. isle 1:, ale, an NI .lEt 11.
. • . ..
... I .. ( r. •it - •
tieutletuan, however, who spoke lest. he most like tits
they would not, it followed that the Roman Ca- ghee) a iIVI • tifof observing, wailattributed to
t ?sr .
on time awe:v.o;m art that 1.111. lie then caae:
daunts of that day were objects of even Las jea-
upon the I I soma•e, as an 'argument tOr going. into the Friend 'propositions alibis he bail not laid down, loss.
Imlay than they were at present.—(ilear, hear.)— t.•
„itl.:et. to dn
so hi ,
of . . .„i auchi as he bad i a 1 •
r time purpose pilot.; eats'''. c- .. serge hint sviih advocating anciall-
.l.- %%amid pass over the reigns of Charles the Second .4' " '
tlon, and restoring concord to a great portion of tied emancipation. His Right Hon. Friend bad taken
anal Jam as the Second, and come at once to tl.e Revolu- •
the snbjects of the Ilealue And the Hight Hun. Gen- 110 suds ground—he had spent a great part of his ar
titan. Ile bad to apologize to the douse—(t'lle-rs.)— theican would remember that a great part of what be , enment to ridicule those Statesmen who pretended to
but really the groasal in question haul been 'al lden so (fir. Pere) said in l'• 1 - a.r. • est tl • Committee,was to
reduce all legislation to abstract principles. The Right
often, that taere was little 4 ,i.„ but to :fir Cast which it inability to give that concord orsatisfaction, lion. (lent, (ale. Peel) had eadeavoured to chew that
Lad been ergeal before. lie woutld whet that although
the Laws of Exclusion were coeval widt• the Itafortua- "n "l'ich the Right Hon. Heade:min so much Insisted. there were a series of dangers from the Catholics Irons
lion, yet that circa:in:mitre ought ta be no her to the Let the Right llnn. lieistleitiaa refer to the Hill framed the Reformation to the time of King William 111. But
claims of the l' stimell.e; ii they r:ere well founded. Nay, on that occasion, protasedly fur the purl:me of doing the fact was, that there was one danger, via.—eke
thonfiltha ill!, of Rights itself had este:tided them, lie Away ..% 'oh the zaalaatias under which the Catholics • ' • only
- existence of a great Catholic body connected with some
wouls tear here the first to consent to a reteuval of that lab, lured, anal 4.f which they coatalained. lie . .
exclusion if it should appear that they l''ll of 'light' would final l', mt three fourths of that Ball was taken un i•oreign :tower. Throughout the whole of the times
was the foandation of an act of injitstiee.—Olear.)--lie . • ' • that he had enumerated, the danger was one and the
haul heard an euleeinni on the character alt Wing 11 il- with imposing restrirtions, to giant against the danger same; healing the s u -se di iracter —evident, great, anal
limn anal oil la. opinions ; but what were Close opiilionsf whialt the Itielit lion. lientlettain denied dial or °Mild urgent. As his Right lion. Friend (Mr. Plunkett)
It was preimeed 'slide he was Prince of I )r.in::e, to ad- exist. Such was the nature of those precautions. that said, every alesiati tttt from time principle of the law of
mit lite friends into power, if he would conseta to use the words
of the ►!Light Honourable Gentleman, ' g '
En land that every Englishmen had a eontnien riebt
to the repeal of the Corporatioti and Test Acts.and title to competency for otti .e in the State. had
.. •t 1";1 114puled' I • the Catholics u
1. s gra .ng
Ilie opinioev of that Jay wer• au apalicallie to the pre-
terms %dad& the most jealous Protestant could not oh- temporary dative. The li:glat Honourable Hea-
-1 sent oecas'ome that lie (Mr. Peel', wi•la the peralssium jest to, or die most scrupulous or inveterate Cadiolie ttauntan who up, ...nett the doctrine, admitted that there
lof the II- nse, would trail them. 'I he Prince's an- I reject. lie was correct, netwithstanaiec he believed, was no present alaiseer, bet sail thst his opinion wattled
swer was addressed thiongli the Pensionary of 1110 - I in
stating, that this Bill Fsi framed was generally repro- F.ltllt• an diet whiclaaemeted the areat feastesatata Iva s
laud to the then Ling of Eat:eland, atel the answer i hated by a great part of time Rend-% Clergy, who eonsi- is el secure I to theism all the blessings of time Revolution,
ran as fellows:—•• and if his Ma:it—le ;Mai; fit to' alereal Ow they were not able to give time pledges it re- viz. :—to prov'..le against fu'lmre r4)ntingencies. If he
repeal the p„,aa lava. she). „1a.,. re-aa v to cooseitt I /aired. 'risme was, he believed, a general feeling of compared these sentitia ate, he fllolllil say they were
thereto, but stili;eet to the excinsion of the Roman Ca.! aislin°!l°."" iii the Cathsolla laity, which led them to diastia ideally oaposite. Tar Bight Hon. Gentleman sail,
tholics." And again afterwarals---•• gut they canal at 'a r tad eerr
nisi: •tuir.u..l.l!
conditions.a.lst state toTt
bit! I:4 ifs lelel : ri; t:
eaxciest•tp; i 'lg that. an alterasion in the British. Constitution would he
praduetei lay the repeal of Ole 13th of Charles 11. Ile
consent to Ow repeal of those lama !,v which Cie Can- , ra;:posimion to the au Write of the Clotrehgof Rome • f it:
"r tau:ugh: it a hard matter that an Art so obtained as that
siltation is preeerv,•3 against the designs of Item ai :they haul the sanction of the Pope to give those plteil • s
ae was, slainhl he so difficult 'of getiing *repealed. There
;,; t :
study to increase their power, which is as flan gorous to i tery fret an toed. conscience they could not-:givr. 117- was no law sa infamous in its origin, or produced lay
Catholics." In another part of the auswer was i cherished no hostile feelings' against the Roman Clitlin• midi a combination of villainy, as the 13th of Charles
indeed he should be most ungrateful, if he alaa
the following passage: —" Time Boutin Catholics, 1 lies ;the Second. It was !mescal on the Ynth of October, 107:4.
by being in Parliament, must naturaily study to i ::then "a",.
ini ocatie,lie.tlioarlit it hisi duty sopeeienti- How had time !Linos employes! itself previously to tits
I,
.) 1 1:1111. i_.
.1 te ;_la.l ill ~ as.l.e i I now., andh!sit passing of this Bill 1 linty 641 they prepares! themselves
increase their pewee, which was den reams to the .
' t ietr freest la achnow lealgi al hat tire Ca.:mars:sin aye • a for tunes
great exercise of deliberative wisdom, anal
Protestant Religism.:, since all Li th:wer leatrd inure I hint the justice toappreciate the motives lay is bleb he ected. e; statiiiiiii y of tent .r, so necessary to c i banal in han I
or less to their Tynan's." Timis was thee 01.111.1011 4,f •He did not charge the faitloolics with h bag less able in i legislating on such a question ?-.
They had been em-
Late King William; but he(Mr. Peel) had ether audierity ,to discharee the laieli alutlee of office ; still lie dill ployri in racaininitig at their Bar, Titus Oates. It was
to sham that there was no *mil rialit as that al tau. ; nut think they ouelit to be entrusted is ith them. If wino their initials were intosiemeal by the infamous pc r-
a4lmission into office of every subject. Ila. ware,: cam- . lie were a Catlin: le he never Manila! think it is rong to jeries which had refused the death of so many innotent
p,.l.4uns, toy that itisimmon.s wretch whose name stained the
menee with the Act fur the Toleration of Prot .stant i estimate his own Church in the State. Was there any
annals of the Legash histery, that this law was enacted.
Dissenters. In the reign of talent Alive a Bill was I timing in past history which tend pt amn tended to exempt Roa • •
• . • !he fed o
perjurire of the nm eXecrable miscreant that
brought into Parlienient for depriving Diseenters of I Catholic from that suaaeion which he (Mr. Vera) if a eeer slanvedbis fare at the liar of a civil tribunal as a
that 1' okra ion. It Was called "An Aet to c..lopel 1 Iloneet Uatholie, and in a Protestant aanietry, woul ILe false maim' s, bad induced time whole Legislature
occasional conformity." It teamed the ('.+:n mete, bit stib'e•et to ? But a.tiont;ls Is. tun ngimt that aitimrelmen- mil time cautery to pass a law which. after years hal
itanet with consider:dole oppasition ill tile Loruis. A si ins might lie eutertailleal fcom the aulaption of the elapse:l, and nav generation' sprung tip, it was now
conference was agreed to, and managers ware aim,mint- principles laid down by the Right Ihunottralale Urania.- inquoseible to reaeal. The Hon. and Learned Uentle-
ed to conduct it. it would here he hiehly proper to man, he was fete to acknowle site that if he' could went into a review of the circumstances attending the
notice the persons appointed to conduit the conference t thina that this measure would opera:e materially to different period of history in. which the question of
on the part of the Lords. They were the Earl of restore that concord and satisfaction. a aiejaavhatever Catholic aisabilities hail been aeitated, in order to sitp-
Peterborough, Loral lialifix, Barnet, Ili • hop of Salis- I might be his views on this question, he as ardently port his pasition that time restrictions haul been plecal
bury, time Duke of Devonebire, and Lord Smut as. It at'- I desired to see established as the Right Honourable on the Cathelics '..i war 1 off • soine.temporary danger.
peared that the !emelt, urged in support of their azgu- tien•leman—all his fears for the Clitircli Estabiisb• The Right lion. lientleinaa haul alluded to the cat+, of
meats against the Hill, their opinion that the Chard' anent wauld give way in favour of that dm sirahle con- the Quaker!, in whieli• allusion he thought hint
was in no danger Cum the Protestant Di-seaters. summation. No one wished more that' be did. to see unfortunate. .1 h..• no: admitting Quakers was n ,
There was a Resolutiou passed, which in substance de- the religious parties in Ireland living its harmony and kse to thein. bat was a great loss to society. St
dared " that the Chureh of Englantl, as happily saved cornet union. But he um far froa. thinking tbat that the establielitnent of that sec`, great apprehensions
be King William, of blessed memory, was not in data would be the effect of the measure receintliendeul fly the were en.terta'oesl, as were o .se of the Catholics. Bat
ger ; and that whoever went about aleclariag that it was Right Honourable Uentleinan. lie tiid believe, nut- it had tnrned out that they were the most tranquil nut
,1
uin danger, was an enemy to the Queen and the State."— withstanding these restrictive laws, that the reli- peacsable Sect in the kingdoms,. All the ezperience
Time Managers appeared to admit that the Hiss: raters glans parties in Ireland were approaching to a much past dine referred to by the Bight Hun. Ilentlemnaa
were peaceable amid well disposed; and be (Mr. P.) was more social state than ever . ex:steal betweep onlythat whilst of
were refused their rights
perfectly ready to admit the same of the Romani:mho- them before. It might be asked why, if the they wonlal be the candies of the State. In moan- -
lies. Witat was the distinction drawn by the Managers? causes of most of the dissensions in past Cuies idon, the lion. awl Learned Gentleman said, that as is
They said that "tile regulation of 0,: ces belonged to were time religions and commercial mouopuly of this was given tout that his Majesty was going to visit tee-
the Legislature, hut that Penalty and Panislinieut was country, which still existed, he did not iledire to • pal lead, he hope.l he would be enabled to do's. not as a
of another natute.”—(Cheers.)—This was the tonsil- an end to one part of that monopely. if he desired to Conqueror, as all his predecessors nt.'s, but as the mem!
tutional doctrine of the great Lord Somers. If hr i cement more closely the harmony which he stated to senger of peace, and the bearer of that Cuistitutioo •
(Mr. I'.) therefore objected to the general admission of . lie beginning to manifest itself? it *as expres'ely to which was no Joneet to be viewed as a boon, but on
Dissenters", be had a right to object to die motion of : avoid disturbing that harmony that he opposed such a their part as a tight. -
the Right Hon. Member in favour of Roman l'ailmiles.. :Niterture- He must state honestly, that after having Mr. PEEL exkl,,ineal.
There was a most respectable class of has Majesty's I conferred the capacity to possess power, he was afraid Lord BURY sapported the uweion. He consider,. I
subjects who would not take an oath at all, and he did that there would remain no rutin* of maintaining that the Irish C th 'Sias were entitle I to the atluei- il3
not see why the same argument should not 'be offered an equal division of powir beiwixt Catholic and Pro- of .a:rir Claims, tram the exemplary c uraluct which
in favour of them also ; for the law bad pat them on testant. He did Ihiqk that thire would 'be a ion- ,had ale are distin • gumimed them Limier every privation.
the issue footing with the rest of the coiammaity 10 all stamtstragglefitr poi or. thievery occasion of lie-,
Daring tie hoateet mows op p( party Seal they bad
a•lees of property. Why then exclude the cooker, ? presentative for the peopligeingebosen, if a Pcoteetait never given the slights• t ttlehlirs.oehi. at to veaitian :n
It was known ;hat a Quaker bad et en heca returned to and Cathulie candidate were opposed to each otier, .14 ally shape. •
• .. •

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