The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-07-19 00:00:00

PCOTTISII PRESS.

Mr. ABVACRONIBY gave notice that on Tuesday
next hr should move for a .•opy of an opinion given by
Mr. (lope in the ease of Borthiviek.
A message from. their Lordships here announced their
Lordp.hips' Assent to severAl Bills.
Mr. LUSHINGION move) the third reading of the
Ite..eiver-Generals' Bill.
Mr. Alderman WOOD oppose! the Bill. A respect.

able individual wee ready to collect the tun flit
, Leedom toad Middl,.s.x at so Unreal expense of I 600!:
Mr. L(ISHINGTON said there watt nothing in the
, Bill** must the offer of that person being accepted, if
be should, en allele!, appear to be a peeper person.
After a cesernation between Mr. P. Moons, Mr.
Ourairest, and Mr. Mona, the Hill 'WY Nad a third
doe and passed.
MIER 'DILL.
Sr. BROUGHAM rose to ahoye the second reading
of fhb Bill. He disclaiined any wish is attack the mo-
deles of the individuals who opposed the situate ; but
the.fact was that the beer in general sale, was so bad,
that its cemseniption had not increased • proportion to
the inctesokof the population. He did Oft mean to say. that
this was to be eatfrely attribefed to the hadtees of the
beet, bat to the tax, which seldom appeari4 to be taken
into aetiettel. The poor were grietotaily **need by
tke tit; silt it was on their behalf that &submitted the
Bill to theconoideratitin of th e house. A. dee law now stud.
no Vatiesoohld sell strong lieerhyretallorltheut es excise
licesee addril licence from the Magimritim. It was a
moitlig7bleiecosallltetsey la t law, to place. itself
i's . 4•41.• Praaoiaataft sista pea to Adige
every matt, m ,ho wetted a patKt, to go to the pub-
lie house for it. He denied that the law meant to give
the brewers tht monopoly which they *seamed. his
Hos. Friend reminded him that the. Magistrates so con.-
ideated Om law as well as the biewert. It might be so,
11
tlets
is the prestige of many worthy Illagia-
• teldOrbonzlm triahed to ester into amicable die.
cilia mt eh spirit of the law, toevinted that their
&AM* wills to do justice to the pabik, would lay them
.Eest
opt* to asililtression from Igiss w he pledged Lin&
sealskin' way to their views, ff ey could convince
him. He asked them then what the meaning of
that part of the law which gat* the'ta At power to re-
strict the cumber of public Louses by liettideg,if it were
not the prevention of the iuthilgence. of tippling, lii
keeping the notate of public houses exactly propor-
domed to the wants of the public, and watettiag slily to
be the owners of them, such as could give the seetuity
of good character, and property to a certain amount ? • it
watt evidently the convenient, and well-beleg of hie
public that were Meant by the laws in this respect, and
part of the intention west, therefori, bate been to esti re
to the consumer the benefit of good wholesome beer.---:-
Since the supply of this article -bad been exclusively in
the hinds of the brewers such beverage had been im-
posed upon the people, as the Legislature was not war-
ranted to sanction the continuance of. The encourage-
ment of Mall beer-shops would also be beneficial to the
revenue. •It was at present the interest of the brewers to
use as small a cmansity of malt as poslible, to make that
article and hops keep pace with each other as much as
possible. tie would refrain besides from adverting 111
any of those other ingredients with hard loonies, of foreigit
plants, which ware so Well known to be mixed up with
the liquor they had to drink. This was certain, that the
beer they sow bad was not of that kind spoken of by an
excellent judge of his day, Bonifate; as that which he
could eat, drink, and sleep epos. If this Bill were al-
lotted to pass the poorer classes of his Majesty's subjects
would have better beer brewed for them, and issued of
being obli •to wadi cry pot to the tippling hos*.
at .. 1... ghters and children to all the teem- • • ''
•• l ' • tr -- . oof evil example by making them the
•. , .
.:11, .. might obtain it from • tibia.
b di. it' . • , ii PH no bed &agony w6rild atetelOaVal*rr-t"
in their way. Good, wholesome, olu Boglish beer would
again flow through the country. A fair competition
would be introduced to that which was poison to the
I healthond worse to the morals ; and which had in 601110
1 parts of the country which he knew, reduced a healthy
vigorous population, to a puny .aralytic race, leave aloue
Its effects on the metropolis. The House would of
course see Bathe alluded to ardent spirits.—(Hear, hear.)
—'fbe Hon. Member concluded by moving that the Or-
der of the Day be read for the second reading of the Re-
tail Beer Bill.
The Order having been read, and the question put
upon the second reading,
Mr. F. BUXTON said, that as his lion, and Learned
Friend tad expressed himself as a Friend to the right 91
property, he was convinced that he did not know what
would be the operation and effect of his own Bill. Thu
hoes* would be surprised to bear that such were the sen-
timents of his Honourable Friend in bringing
.forward a
Bill, the effect of which would be to bring ruin ou fifty
thousand persons, and injure a capital of 30 millions em-
ployed in the beer trade. This being the important ef-
fect of the Bill, be did not think be need urge any other
objection to it than the late period of the Session. All
public business of importance bad by common consent-,
been postponed, and yet that was the period thought'
fitting for the introduction of a measure affecting pro-
perty to a greater extent than any which had beet►
brought in daring the present session.--c Hear, bear.)—
With regard, however, to his other obrctions to this
BSI, be must point out to the butte the justice of sepa-
rating the interests of the victuallers and publicans from
the brewers who were of a far more obnoxious charac-t
ter. If the brewers deserved punishment as monopolists..
why should the publicans be included ? If the brewers
employed too great a proportion of capital in the buil-
nes', what had the publicans to do With that? They,
true in no way connected, and it was not jest to the.
weaker delinquent to join him in punishment with•ths
larger. He therefore called upon the house to separate,
the cease of the publicans froze that of the brewers. Het
was sorry his Hon. and Learned Friend had not made-.
any direct attack upon the London brewers, as be should-.
bare been most happy to vindicate them from the chargea
of imposing a bad article upon the country. But the
Bill bad tbedirect effect of tinning the publican, sod in-,
kiting the brewer. Now he begged the hoes* to ob-
serve that the property of the pirolican was extremely
bard earned ; his little wealth was of slow growth, and.
in fact accumulated shilling upon shilling. Publicans
had ienerally been servants who set up walls small capi-
tals, and he assured his Hoo. and Learned Friend, that
the. Lando° publican earned his money much more by
sending out his beer, that' by selling it at his bar. It
was the same in the country, though not to the same ex--
test. If, therefore the house conferred upon all the
chandlers and barbers in the neighbourhood the power
of selling beer, they would destroy the publicans out
door sale and rain lei business. He- again* assured the
house, that there were upwards of fifty thousand respect-
able, industrious thriving tradesmen who would be this
affected Isy the Bill.—(llear, hear, bear.)—Then Caine
the question, whether these people had vested rights in
the existing state of tbiugs. That question, he thought,
might beset at rest, by considering whether the publi-
can, at the tine of resting his capital in his public-
house, could anticipate this Bill being passed ? Cer-
tainly not. If antiquity had any thing to do with it,
he could boldly assert, that the present system of licens-
ing public-houses dated its origin from an Act of Edward
the Sixth. lie assured the house, that he bad in hie
hand the other day a license to a public-house, under
the hand of a well knewn eminent citizen of former times,
he meant Praise-tiod Barebone,—(a laugh.)--thatbouse
had been milieu in the bale of good beer from the days

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of that individual down to the Present. But, he main
taieed that no pokey .fernded no public movenienc,
enuld be tolerate 4 which 'Mould injure private interests.
If err, what would have becoraimf the ROOM creditor :
The feet was, that this *sties. of his Honourable and
Learned Friend was an attempt, • wellmeant attempt
nu doubt, on his part, to relieve- the egricalturelists
from that portion of distress which 'premed upon
them. That was no doubt • Strong lamest; but
he was sure it would never be tolerated that one
elms should be Made to start the_brudees whiels.pro•
petty belonged to another. The agricpltnrists be be-
lieved, did not back bia Hon. 'Friend—they were toe ;
many V and games' to wish others to be reined io order
to relieve them. Another evil of this Bill would be,
that the number of lonise Officers most be increased.—
With regard to. the morality of the question, let the
looms, recollect the different checks of character soil
property epos the publican, under the present system
and look at the effect of irresponsible individuals of all
il•seriptione, having it in their power to Mk* out as
Excite license. He must &Rix advert to the period at
which the Bill was broughl,le,.and he would use the
word. of Lis lion. Fripod- on that sObject. It was only
the other day,ehat nimbi', of a Bill brought in he
said :.They all.knew what was the niesnieg 'of intro-
ilea ng a measure 011 the 10th of July. It meant an op- •
presaive ltwihliousitens to empty benchea. In short hot
weather legislation. and qfiitiont of semon. This, toe.
sees the way he (blr., Buxton) designated the act of his
Hon. Friend. Tbie:Was 40 oppressive measure—it was
for thelaigest cobfiiciiion of propeety ever attempted
by suet, rn_yaos. Itaweali, if admitted,• lend to frauds
upon thlylievcotte,_
.ter geolvawriliminsty. nod
to hssinerilsig..-4(lie • 4.
..
~.. ~.,^...is-,si. .
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51ia
lie!. seven or eighe., tt . MO at sodOnit.ll
gave ,way to . ..
Mr. BROUGHAM:-le rose to correct Illeprellsilike
able Friend's misconceptiow of his meanie( -
sures brought in at this period of the Session. t
he bad said 'applied to.•the intention the? au
3
sures should pass aNG editstio. -He was sorry to
even that long betwixt his Hon. Friend, and, the
tierce of the bons,. In answer him, for wlltleX he r-
• - i
Dished ample enterials.
Mr. HUSICISSON esteemed that he was fully im-
pressed by the reeight of the argument which the Him.
Geatlemen who load juntiat dolts set out With. with re-
spect to the lateness of the Session. He did dot think
the 18th of July the proper day for such a Bill ,as this,
aod as one friendly to the principle of the Bill he really
.would beg leave to recommend to.the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman to withdraw his Bill for the present, least by
meeting with a negative it should come prejudiced be
diecoission at-a future period. Hut with regard to the
arguments of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat
down, Iti'seemad to argue that it had always' been the
policy of the law to countenance a monopoly of the arti-
cle. He, however, hail 'always considered linage and
such like, for issuance the assize of bread, mere institot-
ed aloes for the benefit, and with LAW to the moseforte of
the consniner.—(Hear ) And as to vested rights, and
the anale.:v of the Hon. Member with the case of the
public credltor,--it hail nothing to do with the present
question. They stood upon different groom& altoge-
• •oer ; for, according to the Hon. Member's theory of
vested rights, it would be an inv.sion of wateruren's
rights to build a ktidge over the rifer, or to work a
scam vessel.—(llem, hear.) lie really thought the
Hon: Gentleman had a little exaggerated. when he talked
of 50.001} individuals being ruined. They Vrixe- there
to legislate for the public good. which cite mistions of
the likos. &timber about vested rights would go entirely:
to check. Still less could he countenance the word
..00fiteation applied 'lithe Hon. Member to this Bill.
The'restralni with respect to the sale of beer was given'
for the purposes of morality ; but it Lad been converted
to altogether a different purpose, approaching to some-
thing like'ssonopolf: Bet that mese could jtiklify if,
title being set up to such a monopoly. By the disap-
pearance of drunkenness; wbiehrmy -one who had lived,
as long as be Lad, could not fail to have observed, ro.
great prolongation of life had accrued to the bumbler
classes of people, witlo a great improvement in their cons
forts. It was necessarj, therefore, to look With caution
at any change in the system which brought about such
advantages. lie again recommended the lion. and
Learned Gentleman not to press his Bill in its present
(curie state ; to withdraw it and endeavour to ascertain,
during the recess, whether or not this Bill would im-
prove-the revenue, and to what extent. He wished he
would also estimate the extent of its operation upon the
habits of the people, and also upon the property at prw
sent concerned in the trade.
Mr. Alderman WOOD apologised to the house for
troubling them upon this subject; es out of the 44,000
resent who would he affected by this Bill, 4,000 were
his constituents. lie wished his Hon.- Friend would
show what benefit was to be derived from this measure.
The evils of it had been sufficiently pointed out, for it
certainly would be the cease of ruin to a great number.
To illustrate the feeling of the trade et the proposition
of his Hon. and Learned:Friend, he only put it to his
own feelings how be would feel, were it proposed to ad-1
mit the inferior practitioners in the law to the practice
of the Courts.—(A laugh.) lie was sure the lion. and
Learned Gentleman would not like that. He knew that ,
Senators had been allowed to practice as Cotinsel in ,
Cornwell, and tloat e.ove great offence to the. Gentlemen
of the Long Rube. Rain, be knew, would be brought
type many respAtable widows mud others, were this in-
if ix into the trade permitted. Ile Loped, therefore, the
House would let the present systemgo on, from which
every possible benefit was derived. lie should not 11
move that the Bill he read that day.three months,be-1
cause he believed it was the intention of his !loin. Friend
to withdraw the Bill for the present Session'. •
• Mr. BROUGHAM said he load felt himself hound,
with reference •to some previous measures, to Posh the
Bill on to its present stage in ibis Session, or he Cer-
tainly should mot have selected so late a period, of it.
He was riot, threefure, insensible to the wised. of the
arguments for postponing it. The mass of Interest that
it bad created hail made Lint desire to hear the rape
smote against it, and flow lie was satisfied. Like the
Hon. Aloleromo who load just sat down, he found the
brewers standing up as comma for the publicans, and
co doubt if they had a publican in the house he would
stied up for his lords and .masters, the brewers. The
disguise. was easily seen through—these gentlemen
mount themselves, when they talked of others. is with-
drawing the Bill, he begged to suggest to the Chancel
for of the Exchequer the propriety of considering, dur-
ing the recess, the placing of a middle dirty betwixt
that of 2s. and 10s. One at 4s. or Ss. would enable
brewers to furnish an article of small beer considerably
better than that which seemed. to meet with general re-
probation. Indeed. the small beer was diminishing se
fast in quality that it was absulutelyin danger of becom-
ing invisible.—(A laugh.)—The people had the remedy
ill their own bands, and if the brewers were determined
to give up no part of their monopoly, he doubted Oa
they would use it, The Magistrates might diminish the
evil by licensing more houses.—(llear, hear!)—From
that cheer he suspected that those interested in this
question, and who were wise in their generation. wage
of opinion that in this way no material chase could be.
effected, as if a few more houses were licensed, it wadi ,
Le an easy matter for them to get the lesses of thee.''
houses iuto their possession. The evil, however, might
be remedied by private brewing, but few were aware
how easy, and at how cheap a rate, they might provide
themselves with a wholesome beverage. The private
brewers saved :Ws. on the malt duty ; the retail profit;
the duty on the publican's license, which alone gave an-

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*sally is revenue tio less thee ifle,ooo/.; as& he
side,' all these advantage*, r more wholesome heverege,
would he obtained than could now be pemba,44l. The
fixpense of hrewitic utensil, did not exceed from X. tea
If. If a poor man could het purchase them let bilk
join with hie neighbours. ',They must, linwegar, talet
motif the Court of Exchequer as they went id. Tfigy
must not sell say portion of the beer they skewed, but'
several joining to brew, and brewing in owe or *di
houses, each under the present law might telex away Ali
share. They might brew is one aaetbee's bows in
rotation. They must sot lend their apparatus: but •in
the partnership be recommender! where (mob had a shies,
in every part of the materials, this use of them, in coo-
cert, could not be considered a loan. He would strongly
recommend it to country gentlemen to give brewing
utensils to the poor. They could not give their bounty a
bet ter d i rec ti o n. Them we re di melees-publish ed for brew-
ing, which would enable all classes to brew for themselves..
These were to be had in a threepenny or sixpeney pam-
phlet, in Mr. Cobbett's Sermon on the snhject of brew-
ing, er against droakenpess, where d; directions Area
were so plain that he who runs may read.. Thrsegli bi
consented to withdraw this Bill for the pement; he wee
confident that ultimately it would pus, and iimiderithe
was that it would prose a most iarporteet boon easeri.
• bating alike to the-wealth, health, sad weeds .com
people. •
• After a few words from Mr. Moxce and 111 r.. .Iseca-
HART,
The ICITANCECLOR • et the ISXCREQUBIL lid-
dressed a few obeeddioes to the house, in •explaeldeld
of the coarse whrelalfieveteineae had takes with/eke,
ears to die -subleet4ll debate. An Jequiry
Veiog on for seems eider. the, aeitherile,A
Treasury,is orderterditioeieewhellier means °mild set;
be foaled Roc supptyleg the llamado/ pub& leillskeir
of superior qualitY,sabject to a duty, regelbled
ing to its comparative strength. Withestltadeg what
hail been the remit of the enquiry, he should say thud
there was every mama to believe so mock of the plo
would be carried into elect as would enable tie T&
boater to get superiorbeer, subject to an internsedflta
duty: With respect to the merits of the present li-
ce:smog system, to dadvsd at this time to give no api-
idea. So he as velnemil to the sale of beer to publtc-
houses, be thenght the pretest law fit to he Maimed:
but with respect le the sale of hear in other houses he
thought this might be allowed, without sealerikily af-
fecting the great prepare,' vested In public-hisses. A
heavy duty fell en the public brewer. which es the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman had said, did not attach to the
private brewer. He, however, thought the want of skill
on the part of the 1. ter, aid the absence of. those ad-
vantages growing Oct othe employment of a largq,ca-
pital gave him we great simeriorsty over the pdhlic
brewer. But be that as it might, the advantage's which
bad bees mentioned were secured by law to them hhe
brewed for themselves, aad with that law he bad media-
poeition to interfere.. • •
Ale. Alderman BRIDGES spoke against the plait for
legalizing the sale of Was from private bosses.
The Bill was then withdraws.
SALT-PAT OFFlCitill.
Mr. F. BUXTON wished to ask of an floe. Met
whom be saw la his place, what arrangement hart been
made with respect to Half-pay Officers who were inhume,
as to their pay and allowances ?
Sir: O. COCKBURN said, in consequence of the %ob-
ject being brought under the consideration of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer is the early part of the present
Session, the Government had directed their *treaties to
and had come to a decision that any Officer sulfide,
Oder that affliction from service, should be placid on
the same footing as one who had lostlt limb.Veras•to
.he understood that if such indisposidettaeltmdel be is
tonsequence of a athirst defect, or of impended! am-
duct, the sameiiidlnce was not to he . If
the individual wen kept by the
pay Would be stopped; but if be wins by
his friends they would receive the wholeof,lltheillyay.
• Mt:BUXTON inquired if it would• net be
that all claims of this description should h
made, in order that they might be speedily deekilel apes
Sir G. COCKBUKN said, it would certaisly be pee-
per that this should be done. He begged to add, the
Readouts greeted in the case supposed were only toms,
mine while the individual remained ill. In the meted
perfect recovery it would cease. • •

CANADA TRADE AND GOVERNMENT.
Mr. WILMOT haviog moved the Order of dm Day
for taking into farther consideration the Report on the
Canada Trade and Government, begged to state to the
house the provisions of the Bill which be 1111011b1 now
have the honour to introduce. The Bill might Ise de-
scribed under three beads. In the first place, it went to
make an alteration in the Act of the 31st George the
Third for the Government of Canada. It then was in-
tended to act as as auxiliary to the measures introduced
in the p t Session by his Right Hon. Friead the
Preiident of the Board of Trade. And thirdly. it went
to make an arrangement with respect to the appropria-
tion of the duties levied in Canada • and in 'inherence
of this object it proposed to consolidate the Legislators.
of Upper and Lower Canada. On the last of these Ire
proposed to speak first, as the differences which bad
arisen between the two Colonies on the subject of the
deties to be divided between them, had placed chum in a
very anomalous situation, which badly called for some
remedial measure. He proceeded to describe the situa-
tion of these provinces from the conquest of Canada.
They were governed by a Governor and Executive
Council. The Criminal Law of England bad beea in-
troduced in the first hotlines' but the old Civil Lai-of
the Colony bad been retained. Some Ordinances, how-
ever, were enacted. which were at variance with that
system, and the anomalous character of the laws thus
combined, made it necessary, in the year 1774, to restore
the Civil Code, such as it bad originally been, and to
abrogate the Ordinances, bat at the same time the lotto-
duction of a represetemtive_body at a future period wo
contemplated. (Jude, this system the Governineut Vas
carried on to 1791, when the Act of the 31st of Gioia*
King respecting Canada was passed. It was at that
z
rind, that the province which, had till then been e
Oinada was divided into two parts, in consequence of
refugees and American loyalists coming thither at that
time in great nomben, to that part of the provitee,
which was now called Upper Canada. This division
was objected to by Mr. Fox, who was then in the Oppo-
sition; and the grounds on which the Government of
that day defended the Act fur giving the Canada* their
present Constitution were these, that there were many
persons residing in Upper Canada who were Kngliskand
It was extremely
Il norst that the population of that part of
the Colony who had Eeglisli feelings, should be under a
code of laws that was foreign to their feelings and habits.
From 1781, the two Provinces had their respective judi-
cial and legislative establishments. The only access to
the Sea enjoyed by the inhabitants of Upper Canada,
was through tl e Port of Quebec. The consequence wag,
they were considered entitled to a share of the impost
deems, and one-eightb was assessed as their share, that
being supposed to be the proportion which the inhabit-
ants of the Upper Province bore to those of the Lower.
This continued till 1797, when a system of examination
and appropriation by Custoin-bouse Officers was adopted.
From 1797 one-fifth of the duties had been allotted as
the share to which the people of Upper Canada were en-
titled. This arrangement continued till 1517; when a
new inquiry took place. It was then found impossible
to make a satisfactory appropriation of the duties, and
in consequence Upper Canada had been kept out °fits
fair share of them eversince. The Commission appoint,
ed to inquire into the subject had declared iu their Re-

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sTATEMAN.

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fruit that the
arsesenriouteillentand6ferstslitatairoditabgebedetwueeeettirthaselitrro.
provinces. This state of things naturally led the Go-
vernment to consider whether a closer union betwie;
them could sot be brought about. It would he for the
House to consider whether this might not cause those
differences which were now referred to the anther coo, "
ley for decision to terminate altogether. With a view.
le s this they would see if It 'might out be advisedie to
Vats the two taxis% tures, and if other inestimable sir
mottages should seem likely thence to arise, and if or
general principles, independest of local circumstances
this should seem desirable, there was no Gentleman who
would not allow that this subject was well worthy the
consideration of Parliament. He skewed from the de-
bates, which took place at the time, and from the lan
range of Mr. Pitt, that the Act of the 31st of Use late
King was not considered one that was never to be alters'
ad, On the contrary, it was distinctly stated that it
would always be open to revisit:m.4,d it had never boos
stated by Mr. Pitt that it would be accessary es ebb&
the consent of the legislature d the two Provinotslo.
any change that nti.ght be cootemplated. The Paellas
went of Great Britain. it was maintained, would Moray,
have the power of making each changes as might seem
necessary. By the alteration now proposed the Owls,
lege. at preemie enjoyed by Elattons•woold be Is ote
spect lot/tiered with. A qualification wood* 111111111
for those elected, which had been omitted before. hot
such a qualification would he fixed upon as would sot
have the effect of interfering with that competition which
ought to be excited. lie described other enactments
which the Bill was to contain, and stated a drawbadt
was Weeded to be alloired on the re-exportation of
tom, the produce of our West lodia Colonies. To tots
tie the portion of the dudes which each protilni &OM
receive arbitration was to be resorted to, d wbidt
as many -samples watt afforded In this country. no
Bill prescribed that persona should be selected wale
would be acted upon by no local motive, and who would
have so object in view but to decide with justice and
impartiality. He bad thus stated the general outline of
the weathers, the details of which would be better ex-
plained in the Committee. He recapitulated the cir-
cumstances under which be bad recommended this Bill',
to the House. It might be expected that the measure '
would meet with tome objection from the inhabitants
of Upper Canada, on account of their rep tatives,
having to travel to Lower Canada. But this which was
mealy a personal inosovesiesce when balanced against
obit advantages to be derived from a law framed foe time
benefit of those appendages to the British Enip:re, tM
two Casadas, aod consegneetly for that of England.
would he was confident be over-ruled. This Bill frond
affect no privileges hitherto enjoyed, and the union of
the two legislatstresassust lead to more extended diess
dons than would otherwise have takes place, and thus
contribute to the progressive improvement of a colosy
which had deserved so well at our bands by the loyalty
evinced during the late contest. The measure he be
tiered to be founded on the soundest principles of ries
dom. Every information on the subject bad keen sought
from those whose experience best qualified them to
afford it; and convinced of the utility of the bill be
wished to introduce, he should sow move for leave to
bring it in, earnestly hoping that no opposition would
be offered to its general principle.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH thoeght the time at which
his subject was brought before the house, the 15th of
July, would fortify his objection to one part of the Bill,
and give irresistible force to the claim which lie should
advance for delay. He wished that part of time measure
delayed for six months, which went to consolidate the
two Legislatures of Upper and Lower Canada ; he had
so objection to any other parts of the Bill. It was,
therefore, his intention to move "that it be as instruc-
tion to the Committee to separate those clauses which
went to Incorporate the two legislator's in one (rest the
other clauses of the bill." This be should do in order,
that that which was urgent, as also that which might be
useful should proceed, and piss is the present Session.
as pose it they might without opposition from him. Ile
would ask if it would be decent to press a measure sot
brought in before the Itith of July, a measure affecti,'
several hundreds of thousands of fellow-subjects; which
went to alter the Constitution of two large Provinces by
consolidating their Legislatures, and taking away their
separate existence. Such a course would be incousistent '
with the wise government of our colonies now spreading
over every reran. He dwelt on the important duty
which devolved on this country, as mistress of eta many
colonies, to exercise the power she possessed with care-
ful discretion. This improper use of it had caused the
loss of those Colonies which now formed a great ladio.
pendent State, not perhaps ultimately to the disadyse-
tage of England, but certainly to the dishonour of bar
Colonies. 'fo pass this Bill without notice to the peb-1
pie and legislature of Canada, was not coestatent with
the principles upon which wise states governed their
colonial depesdeacirs. He would say from what hid
been seen io the instance of the North American Colo-
nies, that such possessions could only be retaiord imy go-
verning them with *loose rein. He had no objection to
the union of the two legislatures of the Canadas, but he
objected to its taking place nqtr. The present instance
. was the first in which Parliament had consolidated two
Legislatures, or taken a Legislative body away front
any colony, with one eeceptien—tbat of the State of
aleasachusets, which led to the general revolt in Anse.
rica. Nothing of tae kind had been done in the small-
est West India Island. But in the single instance is
which he had mentioned, nothing of time kind had oc-
curred daring the two hundred years, at the commence-
ment of which our colonies iu America were founded by
British wisdom down to the period at which they were
lost la- British fully. lie wished to know on what in-
forms-ion they were to Rio ? What evidence bad the
house before it of the necessity and expediency of mak-
ing such a change? He would ask, if it were consistent
with the dignity of the house to proceed at once to pass
such a Bid withoutivastiag six months so obtain that
information which such a delay cold'', not fail to anpply,
and without which lie must say they would legislate in
the dark ? Whatever the advantages of the measure
might be, were the feelings anti opinions of the inhabit-
ants of these coloniesto pass for nothing.? The llon.tient.
had said opposition might be expected from the Upper
Catualas, as the inhabitants would object to the distance
which their Representatives must navel to pass into
Lower Canada. This objection the lion. Gentleman
(Mr. Wilmot) thoeght would not weigh iuncli. Ile (Sir
J. Mackintosh) did not say this objection might not be
etinoterbalarced lay other considerations. Ina it was fit-
ism that thud" who were so much interested in the
change should be heard, that the House might hive an
opportunity of paring the objections to the Bill on
,the one side, with the arguments in its favour on the
'other. If a change so important were made in the Con-
stitution of Canamla without the slightest notice of sorb
intention being given, what alarm might it not spread in
all our colonies? What security would any of them
have for the continuance of those constitutions under
which they lived ? Such policy would be most injurious
in every respect, and to take such a course would, in his
opinion, Le to make a very iil return to Canada for the
loyal attachment to this country which she had mani-
fested daring time late war. He was one of those who
thought that we hail no right to abandon any one of our
colonies, which were all bound to us by the at ronoest of
all treaties of alliance. Ile begged pardon of the house
for making these general observations, bat he thought
them called for by the nature of the question. lie
moved, as an amendment to the motion, " that the
Speaker do leave the Chair,"—" that it be an inatritc-
800 to the Committee to divide the Bill into two Bills."

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ELLICE perfe.-tiv coincided with rs
principles laid down by iris Hon. ['firma. hue
ed the present Cage to be an exception 'a those p• 11.
If he did not think mr, cad antis ha.] been a
for taking away the legislature of an independent co-
lony, be would not have supported it. The divisioa hs.
term the two houses of legislature required the WM- .
ference of Parliament. Mi. Fox, in the debate upon the
Quebec Bill, bad pointed out the very results wilith
had ensued. The alteration in the comparative
pnpala-
tldn.of the two provinces lied rendered the legislative
ras it existed, inapplicable to the circumstance' of
elutotry. The measure bad received the unction of
the best tiuthorities connected with Canada, and he
thought it would give g 1 satisfaction to the inlia.
Wants of that couarry. There was ease thing whi.
was anxious to press upon the atter:ion of Got ernment,
be meant the necessity 'sighing to this colony at: the
advantages of trmle. which they would bestow upon one
of oar own counties- He regretted that the Corn It it
passed this Session had shut oat their chief prrakt, e
from our ports. This prevented theta applying for
manufamores, and was a entlkil advantage .11 a I -ry
serious nature. lie trusted the house would carry /Ls
measure without delay, setwitlistouding the formidable
opposition of his Hon. Fliend.
Mr. CA [.CRAFT considered this 'ma'am to he one
of so rash and bold a character, that be could net give a
silent vote upon the question. The measere might be
'necessary and right; but it was ant of too impormat •
nature to he carried at this period of the Session, and
without notice being give, to the parties interested.
He entreated Isis Majesty's Ministers to accede to the
proposal foe teaviag this part of the Bill to another Ses-
sion. fie appealed to them, whether, with a house
containing about forty persons, they wo•ild proceed to
legislate so important a measure. He trusted they resold
not, and that the commercial regulations contained ia
the Bill would not he coupled with so important and se
objectionable a proposition.
Mr. BRifiHT opposed the Bill. He looked upon the
Act which bad been referred to, as the charter of Casada ;
and that, he cootemied, was proposed as a permamet
• Act by those Mho legislated it. The Bill was an Grp.,
Canada Bill, and they ought to have the bower Cana-
dians, before it was agreed to. Bottle protested against
the right of the mother coaster to loiterers with the
constitutions igeolonies; and dee& a right were exer-
cised with respect to Canaria, and what was to prevent
its being extended to Jamaica end all the othoreelooks.
He thought it would become Members to give the most
effectual opposition to the measure is all its stages.
Mr. GOULBURN said, that the many occasiess ea
which he had evinced his anathema' to the rights of
our colonies. in defending them against the atm• ks of
Hon. Gentlemen opposite, would gain for him the cretin
of sincerity is the opiaion which be entertaieed upon
this question. That opinion wan, that the measure pro-
posed was owe of the strictest justice, sod demanded by
urgent expediency. He did not wonder that some alarm
bad been felt wham it was stated that this proposition
went to take away the constitution of the Canadas.—
Bet if Gentlemen would take the pains to look at the
Bill, they would fiod that it west to no infringement of
the rights of the people, and to effect no alteration is
the manner of choosing their representatives. it only
united the legislature of the two provinces into one
body, se as to bring their interests into Haien, and to
remove the disseetines which existed. He un,lerstood
that the Hoe. Memberfor Kearesborough acknowledged
the right of that hoes, to make any alterations in the
coustitntions of our colonies with a view to improve the
general interests and condition of the state. How,
time, could it be objected that a measure intended to
calm animosities which might lead to hostility, was it-
couspetible with right and '
satire? He denied that in.
terfereace in this case, would form any precedent apes
,which the boom might pesueed to legislate alterative
in the constitution of Jamaica and other Clllidgelea, be-
cause the peculiarity of the Consiirmies of the Caoadas
placed it apart from all others. He costended that the
house had $ precedent fur the principle of interferetca
with the legislature of oar Colonies in the case of New-
foundland. That was undoubtedly an excercise of the
right over a minor q-santity of population, but it was
nevertheless an acknowledgment of the principle. The
Hon. Gentleman who opened the debate, confined his
opposition to the ground that the measure was not a
pedient at the present time. He 100 l beard it urged on
many &abject', that the time was nut the proper time fot
the incaeure. The argument was a general argument.
He was satisfied the coosolidatiou of the interests of
both the Colonies was a most desirable object ; exposed
as they were to the attack of as enemy, the cocsulida-
tioo or their power would afford mutest support. tie
considered the Bill most essential to the interest of the
Colonies.

Mr. BRIGHT explained.
Mr. DENMAN objected to passing the 13111 at the per-
cent stage of the Session. They bad received no rege-
lar statement from the Government of an intentiue
unite two distinct Governmeats in Canada. The hill
was described to be a measure to regulate the two Co-
lonies. If many Members were out of town, and this
measure was to be beongbt about without due consider-
ation, they could not expect the parties for whom they
legisl sted to be satisfied. Thererwas no proof of neces-
sity for the reeamse. No flacon:met to Hove the rape-
, direcy. It was but fair to suspend the passing of the
, Bill for the purpose of giving the lob ,hitants of the
two Colonies an opportunity to he heard against the Bill
'if so disposed. it was desirable they should sot pro-
duce a great change without consuhing the wishes of
the colonists. It would be abandoning a sacred trust if
they consented to pass this measure at so late a period
of the Sesssion.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY suppo►ted the
Bill, oft the ground that it was ealcolated to promote
the interests of the inhabitants of the Canada.. Ida
multsted against the docteine fiat Parliasamst was NI
wait for the opinions of Colonial Legislatures, previous
to passing any measures for the benefit of the colonel.
The Interests of the two provinces could not he sari•
heed by having their advantages consolidate.f. To pr:•
mote their interest and happiness be believed there coui.i
met be a ►etter measure thaa that before the house. 1.
Gentlemen were disposed to represout it to be a measure
of injury rather than benefit, it would alter the sharer.
ter of it. At the same time Gentlemen could not sop•
pose it was introduced with unworthy motives. 10
Hon. and Learned Gentleman bad stated no ground of
objection. The only wish u-as, that it !night he cu.-
pewits] in the expectation that the people of Canada
would object to it. The Noble Marquess rcpresxfqi
a hope that the Bill might be allowed to go the Case
mitten.

CALCRAFT esplained.
After a few words from Mr. iIEaN L and Mr. T. tl'u.•
lON, Who opposed the rue &sure,
Mr. W I LSI OT replied.
The house then divided upon the question. when the
number■ were—
For ening into a contmitte upon the bill, 4S—Agaisst
it, ll—Majority for the committi e. :11.
The bill was then evs.ied throniti the committee, oil
the report was ordered to he received on Tie'diy n.•>:
The Irish Constabl..' Bill was read a third time, ;,;,.1
passed.