The Statesman.
London, England, 1820-10-17 00:00:00

THE STATESMA

abled them to exercise fusetions legislative as well as
judicial, world justify their departure from the roles of.
all other Courts, because the power of that House, as a
Court, was unlimited. He believed that all afire::, such
I a departure was to be strongly deprecated ; but without
; enquiring. as to a lictifer the present %AS a case which
justified and. a &portone or not, he woulil ask their LoriJ•
shif..• u-bether they 'multi possibly bring themselves to
depart from the rules of lan, min• that they had up to that
very hone acted upon them : One &par:urn. must lead
mothers, and lie ionfaafred the !louse to stop, lest they
dweld lead iltetuseives into intertni made difficulty. Ilut
the Noddy* Earl Ital said he hoped the House would not
bind itself by legal attfl tech:fie:ll objectii.iis. Ile (Earl
L) hoped so too. But the objection mow before the '
Ilium: was not a technical objection. It was an ob.
jeetion founded upon the first, 'try the elementary prin.
riples of jmitice. It was (minded upon this question :
W hether, when rut bind men by the acts of others, i
yen 11l t Id tint establish an agency or i unnection 1
between those who bind, and those who are bound.
if this principle were nut to be acted upon, there i
would he tin end of all justice. Ind. ekl I.
Mtn thr of appeared to be one of all others'
shirts st earn. conviction to every col:namable mind, ;
even unassisted •by profearional habit and experience.
Ile would admit trial this Bill shofild nut lie passed but
upon the clearest evifleurr. Ile would admit that when
their I.::::lships should arrive at the conclusion of the
profree.li:l;s, with a iMu to their judgment, every pare
of evidecir obj...eti.o..hle in the s.iglatest degree which
bore against the Queen sSim...l be expunged, should be '
swept away from the 11iui.ters. Hot then oil the other I
baud loi had a right to ask that no evidence should be
received on the other side Winds was 1114.1161154 MC, We i
only :o•i•Of.11114 In Ike rairS of Law and consist a
sense, hat even aveonlieg to the very first principle*:
i.f jos!ii-e. IN. •Inoit:d offer but 01. t• n urn about the
31ilan t! 00000 nris,i tttt , and the proposed inquiry into :.II the :
circumstance* attending it. To that inquiry at a proiwr
period, he should not have the slightest objection, ur to :
all its circumstances Iwing: sifted and probed Ito the Vrry
'WHOM. Hut the rresimt must clearly not lie the proper I
time. They were ininiring at present into the truth oe l
faiseltood of the preamble of a Bill, and to that inquiry I
which was intitictl to their undivided attention. he l
was perstuJed that attention womb! I.e tiirected.l
But with reference to the mere aberact q:iestion
now before the llonse. as to the alliffissildity of
the proposed evidence, he could not bring himself 1
to pause for a single moment. I
I.drtl INSIIINC argned im favour of the Omission of
the proposed evidence ; but spoke In so low a tone
of voice, tit .t we could scarcely collect s single di.- 1
tinvt stilt: nee of his ai:ilress. I

ltis Lordship proceeded, as well as Ire could col-
lect, to ...intend fur the athwissibility of tb:. 41111.1
tillll. Ur sai•l they sh.tuld hot now, when the vtiert,
and the sole ohjeet was to elicit the truth, stiffer them-
sclrev to be sharkl•d by foram. If this qnestion cati!d
nut row he asked, they might as well stop the
enquiry. If called upon to give his op' on this
5111siert, 011 tlii+ great question. be was a lawyer spits;
lie would then :zit.. his °Milian what was evidence, and
what oas not, for be could lint assimilate this to a com-
mon c...se. Ili man; 10 the 3111 in l'omn.issioo, io ',Hew
one of its pritwilials, Mr. Cooke, and he Leidt c... 1 him
to be All 11.111011rIlde and consciemiuus man : and. for
any thing he knew, the tither gentlemen might' be
equally honuur.J,lc ; but if they urre Angels liestrail
of Limn th.• witnes.es inigiq have hero corrupted before
they reaclie.l the SI:Into ('on►w.i.siv..-a, ; owl
. .

It was necessary to !...sow whether they had ores tor-
rnpted in their colsr,e. It n•as the du?). of :he flostae
to bear all the cr; !mice on the subject, and perhaps
it might be found that there was nit a conspiracy :
Low could tln•c came to sneh a decision without hear-
ing the evidence tarred to iwsve it ? Were their Lord-
ships to suffer t:.e ea,• of a ilritish Queen, exiled as she
had been, and r,stlisecd to the most forlorn and desti-
tute situation, to he judged of like a common cause st
his; pri lie (said his Lordship) are nut sitting in
a Court of Jus•ire as we ought to have sat. We ought.
my Lord•, to have pr.:weeded by impeachment; you have
proceed. tl by the mums: lops and unconstitutional pro-
reeding of a Hill of P... 11; and P. nalties ; and yet you
talk of contini:og yourselv.•s to the rules of law, and of
legal evidence. 31y single opinion ran have but little
weight ; hit I dec:ate to your Lordships, that such Is
my view of this odious proceeding, that were the Queen
as black as I believe her spotless, I would not vote fur
this 1;i11." I f their Lordships rejected the question, they
would in effect :lecline malsing any inquiry as to the
eirnrptien that Intvit here been practised abroad':
and in a case which hal alreatty surprised them so
often with une,:pected matters, it was impossible for
them to say what dbusveries 'night yet lie usule louder
that course of exatiii.safon for which lie contended.
Lord liearsust.► said, the experieure of ages hid
proved that the rules of evidence as established In our
Courts of Law fnrnislied the best means of ascertain-
ing the truth. If therefore their Lordships in Oslo
instance admitted es ideme in contradiction to those
rules, he contended that they would not proceed is
the course a hich was best calculated to ascertain the
truth. In all questions i.f agency it was of the 'won't

insportance to ascertain how far the party was to
roosislerea as air agent, and to WM Mime bit
honnil the principal. Nni pose he were to say to
person, John Thomas, 1 want to speak to you,

John 1 homes, desire site!, a person to come to a
would any man pretend to sat• that by this act be mak
stituted John '1 human, or the other person, an agenhal
Supposing, therefore, that Vimarcati gave such a hill
rectiou to was that auy proof of atfeney sty
the part of Itiganti ": It merely appeared that itiganti
was employed to desire ila-telli to gn to Viiiiareati
any other person might have been employed. To prole
agency, it was not sotficient me►rly to skew that the
party was somehow or other connected with the prin-
cipal, hut it tons: he pr.o•cd that he was folly aithm
tlautiked by the permin, who might sutler (mitt
acts. he strict rules of evidence hail been folio
on the part of the prosecution, and if the Commie! e
I the defence were allotted to deviate front them, wheee.
he would ask, would be the consisteney Of !Vail of
their Lordships' proceedings ? Equality was jetsam,.
land would this he equality ? This was a deeishm
groom!, upon which lie should strenuously oppose say
deviatiou f the s►rirt rules of evidence.

ORCT repretted Out so much of their Lei
ships' time had been conmined in the discussion 'of
this question. and though lie certainly r •nsainall un-
convinced by any of the arguments which ha had
heard i■ the course of that discussion, he rose for Ibe
purpose of stating. that in order to avoid any further
consumption of their Lordships' time. he had no wish
to take the sense of the House spun the question. He
should wish is to be merely pat and negatitrd.

The Lon ti CIeANCRI.I.OII said. that in no rase of a Bill
of Pains and Penalties hail the rules of evidence been
more elosely adhered to. The question was tiled put
and deei.led in the negative without a division.
The mitninution 11114 then resumed.

Lord put the hillowitix question:—
Hid Rodelli say to you that Ilemotit either had re-
nivel!, or was to receive, a la.-ge reward for giving evi-1
dente against the Iliieen?
The.lrruavav•til: to the question, sell
no answer nas given liv the witness.
By a Pecit.—Po von expect to arrive more or less ini
proairtion as the evliietice you gii e is favouraide to the
t4orrit!--11 Eau only say, dust if they give me money, I
will take It.
The witness then

The 31;irgiii% of LANsnowxr, before another uitness
was esPed, wished to learn if his testimony could also
relate to Ra.t*•lli f

Mr. himmuiLit replied, that it would be in continn-
afire of the Sallie line. 1k heal %% kiwd to make hituself
ender-total on Satorday, that hr it as not ready then, nor
was l►e prepared now, to imam the bonne what conduct
ber Majesty** lair advisers intended to pursue with re-
speet to her defence forther than this, that they should
at any rate, for a certain space follow up the course of
inquiry noon a hick they n ere now enraged.
The Marquis of hixsuoivx*: added, that his reason
for potting this question was, that he intended to sub-
mit a tmoton to the House on the sohject of the corres-
pondence of Mr. Powell with Col. lirowne, and for this
pu►pose lie begged that her Majesty's Counsel would in-
form him when they h.►.l concluded their present course
•f examination. .

ltuouut:-.13t replied, that they would nut 't to

The v:arl of CAIIN trtvoN wished to know from the
Nub!e Karl onvsite, n hether any person had been em-
ployes( by llovernment in Hanover to take depositions;
he allnd.•d espyrially to the testimony of Barbara Crania.
The Earl of I.trrarom. said, that he st answer the
question quite uif hand, hut as far as Isis reroll.s•tion
sets!, ela• only agent employed by the British tiovern-
*lout in Hanover. had been the British Minister. [We
are not sure that we hear•l his Lordship correctly.]
Mr. Iluncisnam then called to the the
110.11.11411 was then called in, and examined by Mr.

LONDON:
TVZSDAT Rccxirs, OCTONER 17, 1840.

Private Letters frons Paris quote the French Ponds
at 7.1 f. 9th..—Thr Fund called the Rejoeie.e.lee has
improved 3i per •ant.

This moruihg the Loan Cncmeet.Los, with a view
to relieve their Lordships from the cliicnlty in
which they were placed by the disrnssion relative
to the. inadmicsihility_pf the objected evidence on
11161/110111nplad corruption of the witnesses, proposed
tisk their Lordships stools! take the epiniou of the
Joel. Ass as to the practice of the Courts below in cases
similar to the present. The terms in which he rm.
posed the gnestion gave rise to a long and very warm
debate, whi,•ll continued till one o'clock. At two the
Jadges returned, and begged prinks:ea snail to-
morrow to consider the question, spots which thetiouse
adjourned.

The anxiety of the public will, this ereninr, he ex-
cited by the prucerdiugs of the Commons as well as
the Lords; but the object of that anxiety will he the
eanse. The meeting of the House of Commons ;alas
place at a critical and most important juncture in the
texamination of trite e respecting the Quern ; and
I Ithe toestion which is uppermost iu every mind is, to
whet step that Moose is likely to proceed, relative to
the momentous measure peeling in the House of
Lords ? (an that House which is the Representative
;if the Ctesmons of England, meet only to a..j 'urn,
tad agree again to suspend, eiAe die, all solicitmle for
, the numerous and vital interests of their constituents,
which, fat mouths, hove been totally neglected ?--
I Can they affect, pro forma, to be ignorant of the
proceedings that hare saes plug; in the other
House of Legislatures sad be itueusille to the,

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V, Ar

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danger of the deep and extensive agitations wh'stit
those proceedings hare produced through the whole
frame of the national society ? Can they be
blind to that contempt and indignation with which
the country have Ilene,' the rations steps that have
been taken in the persecution of the gertx : and can
any of the artifices which These directed that persecn-
thin be more abliurrent to the minds of Englishmen,
than the syst. m of corruption which has been distinctly
sw.,rn to at the very itionwnt previous to their meet.
lag ? It is hardly possible that any arguments more
strung and urzent can he suggested, than those which
the review of the last three days' proceedings in the
House of Lords di, ectly lot nish. It is utterly impos-
sible that the Howse of Commons can assmble at such
a eel-is as this .vith••ut niaLing the most ',mum and
determined effort to put a stop to these disgraceful
and revolting proceedings. All hopes of affecting tie
honour of the Qcxxx hare now vanished from the
breasts of the st sanguine of her lies-sr.:wins. The
greatest boon the linters ran now desire is the de.
cent extim•tion of their hated measure. For wise,
reasons, therefore, some method will be deaktlese
tried this evening, to bring it to an end. An Address
to the Throne, fur this purpose, is said to be in cos-
templAtion; and will be moved, it is expected, by Mr.
Wii.ai:nroucx cr 11Ir. Pats..

Another matter of no small imporau r, colnrcted
with the business of the QCEEN, Ole disrovery of the
name/wore of treasonable hand-b:lls, cannot fail to
be bronght this evening before the ilonse of Gonsinons.
As affecting the safety of her Sl.ss: perscn, as
well as of the nation at large, it is entitled to imme-
diate and serious attention: and the more especially,
as it is involved in a mystery of artiii.:e and corruption,
to which great previous wi niay very pr pliably be
traced. It has been the policy of Ministerial Papers, as
we have taken occasion to slirw, to treat this matter
lightly. At this use cannot affect surprise. We are happy,
however, to learn that the subject has f,o. some
past brril under the consideration of se‘t.ral Members
of the House of Commons, and that, in the event of
Sir Fi..sxcis absence it be submitted
to the attention of the House by Mr. Iluutiousa.

The German papers, which arrived with the mail
from Holland last night, contain a crariaus attempt to
mvount for the umbrage taken by the family of the
Qnern at the con !net of Baron Umpteda. The *era-
sion of that umbrage, it seems, was indeed a ity
but not a picklock-key. It was forsooth, the Cksros-
lrerbside Key, which had been gi VP!' to Berger-Li
But let the article speak for itself
`• Besot-cm, OCT. 7.—The tlazelte of this city con-
tains the following article relative to the Baron (imp-
lode :
" it is well known that the Ambassador Voss Onspteda
hail drawn neon himself the clistonst of his Hoyernmeest
by Isis conduct durits the Westphalian usurpation of
this kingdom, hat which area removed by the circurn•
dentist explanation gives. and so hich were confirmed
by foreign onost respectable public aosol•torities ; the con-
sequence of nhich was, the restoration of the key v*
Ciersolreelmin, which bail been formerly given him, his
noistion to Italy in reference to the paiitical situation of
that reentry, and his suhsequent appointment as Am-
bassador to the Court of Rome.

" His abode in Italy had bron...!st him into the se;gh-
bourhood of the Primers of Wales, and it was very as-
toral that he should consider himself as bausJ to give
to his !aural Sovereign the information it was his duty
to sire respecting 'her conduct, which was universally
remarked, and excited great surprise. But that to pro-
cure himself this knowledge of the conduct of the Prin-
ces., which was bnt too public, hr trete made use of an-
lawful or unbecoming means, is a srussfalsehood,restiag
on no proof, and is nue of the numerous calumnies which
the attendauts of the Princess, as well iu general, as par.
tienlatly ow the following occasion, .slurred themselves
ageism( leists.
" 'The aeration we mean was this, when ilergami
received from the Princess a Ch.r.,,,,criairt's Key, like
that which was given to the Chawberlaiu Von Ilarpte•la
by his lawfulMovereign, the latter ira. ii. fared to make
some remonstrances, aid thus kid the foundation for

that hostility with which he was ronstanq paroled.
One of the many consegnence3 of which II" the well.
known challenge sent lain by an itaigikli oth:•er.' "
Boston Papers of the 11th Seetirnher arrived rt.
terday :..—Captain Hunt is arrived f.om Sarandla.
lie reports that Admiral Brion's sin.itir.ni was fitting
fJr ru attack on the Spanish City of St. Martha;
that correspondence had Wien place between the
Spanish Genrral, Nlorilto and the Governor of St.
Martha, also General Tares, Governor of tarthagena.
and General Sanchez Lhasa, of the New Granulise
army, will tt l 'Benin), of the Indepeuest
matt; the water, wf thievaesiespoodesewie4isa4nsees•
pired. A Aar of truce has been sent from St. Martha
to General Bolivar at Buratiquilia.

FROM CAIIITtIAiIIMA, JIMA' I 1.--Things WAIT a
glotiany aspect here ; Brion is 30 leagues to the wind-
ward with a large squadron. Bolivar Las oat Oster
communication with Santa Martha, awl taken all that
strong hulas of the country. The city is ander mar-
tial law.

JAMAICA, ST. JAGm, DE LA VIGA, JILT 15.--Presis
dent Bolivar has officially announced to his brace our
tiovernor-lieneral the blockades of the ports of St.
MArtioa and Cartbageaa by the Independent cruiser*
under Brion.

EXTR•C rOF A LITTER FROM NOWWLr. WLrt we
hare long feared has happened. A large part of
Mobile was laid in ashes on the 15th Aug. In the
evening a fire commenced in Jortlan's gin-house, the
firs swept all Dauphin's-street. I hate counted abort
tY stores; the market house was pulled down. I cal-
culate the damage and loss at 3uo,coa which
is proportio3 to oar Capital is as great as the fire at
Savannah.

A Rettaisitian. we understand, is in the mom of
signature atoung the Freehoide.s of Mhldlesex, to so-
licit the Sheriff so convene a county meeting on the
Ms. ronrenieut day, fur the par.*, •1 taking into
ettn,iieration the propriety of petitioning the floes:
of Commons for a Constitutions/ Reform in the Re-
presentation of the people in Parliament, as well as to
consider. whether it way, or war not be expedient to
adopt sap other legal mesas t, that salutary earl.

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