The Statesman.
London, England, 1815-06-16 00:00:00

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`n I E STATESMAN.

Y:oble Lord hurl availed himself of most unwarrant-
able measures. 511(1 had committed the most flagrant
pets of spoliatien. It s..eni,4l to have been reserved
for nil Ambassador of this country to take away w hat
and other barbarians hind al wals 'lda sacred.
It 14a4 the duty of the House to ascertain the truth
of these matters; for otherwise, in case they should
conseet to purchase the collection, they would evi-
dently sanction acts of public robbery.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
had conceived, that it would be more satisfactory for
the price to be settled by the House, than in a pri-
vate bargain between the Treasury and the Noble
Lord. It was certainly so late in the Se.saion, as not
to afford the opportunity of any long enquiry; but
a Committee of such Members as were best qualified
to judge •of the value of those useful works of art
might make • report, and adjourn to nest Session.—
There were circumstances, indeed, that made it ex-
tremely irconvettient to defer the entire consideration
of the subject ; but if the collection could he depo-
sited in some of the public buildings, the Noble Lord
Might nor, perhaps, object to the postponement.—
Ile was leaned to believe, that the Noble Lord
w euld,conseni to such mode of payment as might he
altisfactory to the House; he had made the collection
an the laudable principle of securing models (or the
artists of this country, but did not desire an exorbi-
tant remuneration.

Mr. ROiE bad very little doubt that the Trustees
of the British Museum wield take charge of the
collection, if the Noble Lord would consent to ac-
cept of such price as Parliasnoot might think proper
to give.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER.,
bettered that this suggestion would meet with the
•pprobatioo of the Noble Lord, as well as of the
house.

lAId Cr. CAVENDISH said, there
was no ne.
cessi,y for removing the collection before the neat
Session.
The Petition was then ordered to lie on the table.
LOAN Ti. TOE CORPORATION OF LIVERPOOL.
Mr. BIRCH rose to call the attention of the House
to the circumostmes under which the Treasury had
Patented tan sums of 30,00)1. and 20,0001. to the
Corporation of Literpool. It ,appeared that this
money %as lent without any communication to Par.
!lament, and was secured on a tobacco warehouse,
or rather, as the lion. Member believed, a mere
shed. The Right lion. Gent. might, perhaps, look
to the amount of the rent, which was stated to be
9000:. a year; but how was this rent fixed? It had
bean settled between the borrower and the lender,

anti ives greatly overcharged, as the utmost value was
:10001. a year. Similar !onus had, at times, been
josttAed ; but the Hon. Member conceived, that a
particular enquiry ought to be made on this occasion.
He, therefore, moved that an account should be laid
J efore the House of ally sum or sums of money
which had been lent to any public body for the last
ten years out of the receipts of the revenue, without
the authority of Parliament.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
did not intend to oppose the Motion, but maintained
that the contract with the Corporation had beat
concluded on terms perfectly justifiable. The to.
bacco warehouse was very ample security ; and Go.
vernment were so fully satisfied with it, that they
bad not thought it necessary to call on the Corpora-
tion for any additional security whatever. The case
was not of a clandestine nature; it had been a sub-
ject of enquiry before the Board of Treasury, who
kept no secrets, and had also been before the Cor.
partition of Liverpool, who were not very remark.
able for secrecy. If Hon. Members contended, that
the Treasury could not expend money without the
eethority of Parliament, they must then be pre.
eluded from building warehouses, and other neces-
sary edifices for the public service.
Mr. W. WYNNE considered this loan one of the
most unconstitutional advances of the public money
that had ever been made. He did not know why
Government should teed money to this Corporation
more than to any other public body. He would not
say that it was for the purpose of obtaining influence,
but suspicions would naturally, arise, which he could
not enr.sider in the same ridiculous view as the itiglit
Non. Gent. had pretended. To sanction this loan,
would Ire to open a door to transaetious of which no
man could see the end.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
explained.
Gen. GASCOIGNE contended, that the ware-
house was worth 50,0001. at least, and was per-
suaded that the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Birch) could never
hive seen it, or he would net have been so incorrect
its his statement of the value. It was not surprising
that the Corporation should apply to Parliament for
assistance—[A lassik)--but be had nothing to say
as to the legality or illegality of the loan.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that it was evident
t!)e Honourable General was not acquainted with
the law or the Constitution, though he seemed to
be perfectly acquainted with the most convenient
way of getting money Air the town he represented.
—The Honourable General had adverted to money
granted for repairing the Holyhead road; this case
was certainly very much in point, as it came before
Parliament last night, and the money was voted by
the House, whereas no communication whatever had
been made by Government respecting the loan to the
Corporation of Liverpool.—[A laugh]—His grand
objection to the measure was, that it was an advance
without the resist:4ot of Parliament.

Cell. GASCOIGNE explained.
Mr. LIANKES said, be had no doubt but his
Uight Honourable Friend, In making this advance,
thought he acceded to it for beneficial purposes; but
the linu.‘e moat recollect that though it might he be.
stefici II to the revenue, yet he could not but disap-
prove of the public money being advanced by the
Treasury without the consent of Parliament ; and
against that dnettine,he must protest, however necea.
:tory the public W9lkg might he for which such ad.
trance.) were made. 11P therefore hoped his Right
/3onourable Friend would see the inconvenience of it,
and take care that nothing of the kind should occur
in future.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER in
explanations tiilohat it 11;14 been the practice of late
years to make ailrancps of money fur public pur-
poses, on receiving good securities.
Mr. RENO N stiff, that with nn estate of the
valve of a will anti a half, there mast certainly

be a good security for thirty thousand pounds. The
interest had been regularly paid, and he therefore
conceived there could be no reasonable objection to
the advance.

Mr. W. SMITH objected to the advance they
made. because, according to the mode of proceeding,
the public money might be osed at the. discretion of
the Treasury, instead of being wider the wholesome
direction of the Parliament, without whose consent
it could nut constitutionally be used. Ile did not,
in the present case, attribute any blame further than
mere inadver'encv, and had no idea that it proceeded
from any political predilection, fur lie believed, if it
bad been brought before Parliament, it. would have
been acceded to; but to ;nevem the recurrence of
such things in future, he thought it necessary to make
these observations.

Mr. BIRCH said, the interest had not been paid,
and he had strong reason to believe that the Corpo-
ration did intend to apply to tho Treasury for a
remission of the payment of it.
The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. WYNN F. ohtnined leave to brim; in a Bill to
ensure the benefit of Vaccination for such poor per-
sons as are desirous thereof.

The.CIIA NCI:LIAR of the EXCHEQUER gave
ootice, that he would to-morrow wove for leave to
bring in a 13111 fur the more effectually controuling
the Accounts that were ki,pt abroad.
The It eportof the Committee of supply was brought
up, and after the Clerk had read the Vote of 09,0001.
for the Barrack Service,

Mr. ARBUTHNOT. said, that seeing a Right
Hon. Bart. in his place who had put a question to
him when the vote for this sum was proposed in a
Committee yesterday, he should take the opportu-
nity of giving the information which at the time he
had not the means of affording ; and he sTiould prove,
be trusted, that Iptfore he had made enquiry i: would
not have been poßrihle to have given any information.
The Right Hon. Bart. had desired to know on what
account and under what pretext advertisements for
the sole of barracks in England had been lose:teal in
Irish Newspapers. Ile had now to inform the
Right tioh. Bart. that haring thought it his duty to
enquire into this tirrumAnnce, he had received a let-
ter from one of the Barrack Commissioners, from
which •it appeared that sin advertisements such as
those alluded to had ever been inserted by their per-
mission or command, that there was no charge for
such advertisements in their accounts for the sale of
barracks, that they never advertised except in the
London Papers, and in those counties where the bar-
rack to be sold were situated. and that the insertion
of the advertisements in the Irish Papers must pro-
bably hare been the voluntary act of the editors of
those Papers. _ _ _

Sir J. NEWPORT then said a few words,

Upon the vote being read for the grata of 30,0001.
for the African forts, Mr. ARBUTH NOT said, that
when this vote was proposed yesterday in the Com-
mittee of Supply, much discussion took place re-
! spectiog it. Ile had been questioned by an lion.
and learned Gentleman as to the nature of the grant,
for what particular purposes the grant was made,
ho bad the management of the sums expended, end
by whom the accounts were examined and audited.—
In replying to these questions he had wished, as far
as his memory would permit him, to quote accurately
the Act which regulated the grants. It was in the
recollection of those Gentlemen who had been in the
Committee, that he had stated that the grant was for
the repair of forts and settlements on the coast of
Africa, for their support and maintenance, to provide
them with ammunition, and to support and pay the.
officers and soldiers of those forts ; and that the Afri-
can Company, or rather the Committee of it, to
whom the grant was entrusted, were to lay their ac-
counts before the Cursitor Baron of the Exchequer,
who was to examine and audit them. Mb was the
explanation which he had first made, although he
must fairly acknowledge that Gentlemen on each side
.
of the House having doubts as to the accuracy of his
statement, and being borne down as it were both by
friends anti foes, he had subsequently given way him-
! self, thinking it possible that although the Act of
Parliament was such as he had represented, a new
tootle of audit might have beets subsequently eolith.
lished. Having thus recapitulated what had passed
in y asterday's. Committee, he would now with the
leave of the Rouse read a few lines from the Act of
Parliament.—[The Right lion. Gentleman read the
provisions of the Act, which were nearly word for
word such as he had state'.l Ws sole object had
• been to set himself right with tt.e Muse, which he
trusted he had done—[//our.]--That with the ac-1
! counts themselves which were on the table of the i
House he had nothing to do; 'hat the stores sent out
might be judicious or otherwise , :'eat for the whole
of this the African Company were responsible ; and ,
that his sole object had been to ;rove to the 11 ._ousei
that he had made no misrepresentats.... on the former ,
evening; and that both in the issuior •.( the grant.,
and in the to uditieg of the ac.uunts, the Act of l'ar-
Bement had beets properly attended to. lie had only •
further to observe, that the same audit as first eaf..ll.
lished still existed, and that the accounts were regu-
larly presented to the Ilouse.—[//cer!]
Mr. GORtION thanked the Right llon. Gentle.
mats for the explanation he had dive'', which appeared
to him to be an accurate one; bet there were some
items in that account to whirls he could not by any
means give his approbation.
Mr. GORDON moved the recommittal of the re-
solution, which occasioned considerable conversatints
between the Chancellor of the Exchereter, Mr. Cal. t
vert, Mr. P. Moore, Mr. Fitzgerald, Mr. Preston,
Mr. W. Smith, Ac.; after which the resolution was
recommitted for Wednesday next.
The report of the Committee of Ways and Means
was brought up.

On a motion for printing the papers respecting the
African Company, Mr. ARBUTHNOT had ■o ob-
jection to if, if it was desired; but remarked the
the great increase in the eapence of printing public
papers and account, which had risen from 7,0001. a
year, ecen to 90,0001.

Mr. WHITBREAD thought the public a great
gainer by the expeuce. 'DIP printing of the papers
was or,!err,l.

Mr. HORNER. ow, rtntl,;r. for Sir J. Newport,
that the lion. ihronet would to-morrow make a
motion for in account of th nomber of mewls con-
fined for rl,•bt in Ire' ,