The Statesman.
London, England, 1823-05-10 00:00:00

THE STA rESMAN

to the trade in Smithsa. The IL GirttleMan mew
eluded bf arriving that the Chairman bi directed to move
the House for leave to bring to a 0111 to repeal the Uwe
regtdating tfii idanufactureof iii4Scotlaird. •
its
Ft.PERGUSSON krad.Mr. MABERLY concurred
the 'Corsi* of eepeallow of dieser laws, and expressed
their thanks to the Right Wu. Gentlerian for istroduc-
ing a Bill to that effect. '
Sir H. PARNELL said that the repeal of thew laws
in Scotland while they continued to operate -inireland,
mast be injurious_ to the latter country; he therefore
hoped that the Right Hon. Gent. would extend a similar
measure to Ireland.
Mr. FIUME said that though he agreed that the same
restrictions in Ireland would be equally injurious, yet he
thought the Right Hon. Gentleman was right in not
mixing up the boon to Scotland pith a similar one to
Ireland. At a future period it might be expedient that
Ireland should have the benefit of a similar measure.
Mr. RICARDO expressed his thanks to the Riglit
Honourable Gentleman for the introduction of a•meadood
which must prove so beneficial to the linen tradedf
Scotland,
After a few words from Mr. HUSKISSON and Mr.
MABERLY, the Horne resumed, and leave wes given to
bring in the Bill.
Mr. BROUGHAM gave notice, for the Hon. Member
for Essex, that on the 10th of June, he would submit a
measure to the House relative to the selection of Juries
in various counties of England, with the view of meet-
ing the inconvenience which now existed in several coun-
ties from a want of Jurors. His object was to allow a
grater number to be summoned.
ENGLISH CONSULS.
Mr. HUME said he wished to learn if Government had
yet determined upon any measure relative to our Consels
abroad. With regard to our Consul at the Brazils,
he wished to be particularly informed, as,• from- the
late changes, he must now be placed in an awkWart:
situation.

Mr.-CANNING said that a Bill on the subject• was, in'
possession of the Board of Trade, and was receiVing, ital,
most anxious attention. As to the other and more part;:.!
miler question of the Hon. Member relative to the Eng-i
fish Consul at the Brazils, he begged him to consider the(
delicate state of the relations between England and t*o.
parts of a monarchy practically divided. At the tituthel
Consul was appointed, a treaty was made with tbe Brazils,.
u part of a whole monarchy, from which it was now se-1
paraded. Under these circums.ances, the Hon: Member
must see it was a subject of too much delicacy for a spe-
cific answer.
RUSSIAN ARMY.
Mr..BROUI3HAM said he wished to learn from the
al/At Hon Gent. opposite if there was any' foun'dation
for the rumours that a large Russian army was asset*:
bled in the neighbourhood of Warsaw ?
Mr. CANNING replied. there was an army assem-
bled ; but whether it was a large way or nit hasfiti;not
know.

AUSTRIAN'ARMY.
Mr. BROUGHAM said he would be glad Utile .Rigbt
Hen Gent. could inform him if, what bebh stipulated.;
the Austrian arblies,liad yet evacuated the Neapolitan
and Pledmodtese territories; and if so, whether they-dill
not yet linger on the banks of the Po
Mr.CANNING said that be believed all the territo-•
rise stipulated bad been evacuated ; but whether they
had yet quitted the Milanese territory be did itot know.
Mt. BERNAL said that several persons complained
that a quantity of their Rum was seized and c,onfiseated,
beraise some saccharine matter, was found in it, which
had been mixed with it to suit the tone of the market,
and not for the purpose of fraud.
Mr. BERRIES said that be %Val not aware of the cir-
cumstance, as no application for redress had been made i
to the Treasury.
The Union Duties' was read a third time, and
}used.
INTO THE
OF CONDUCT.
OP tiTILESHERIF F
DUBLIN

On the motion of Sir J. NEWPORT, the House re-
solved itself into a CoMmitter, to prosecute the Inquiry
into the conduct of the Sheriff of Dublin. Sir R. Hatton
in the Chair.
John Jackson, being called in, said he was a jeweller,
residing in Dublin.
By Col. BARRY.—Were you at a party in company
with John M'Connel?—l was there during the whole
time, daring which John *Collett was there.
Was Mr. Sheriff 'Mope there?—He was.
Did you hear him say any thing about an Orange
papel,being in his pocket? or used words to that effect?-1
aid not. -
Could such words be used without you hearing?—
They could not.
Are you confident, if such words were used by Mr. She•
riff Thorpe, they would have caught your attention ?—1
am quite sure of it.'
Can you say, with confidence, that no such expressions
were used While you were there can.
. Did Mr. Thorpe say'any thing about trpanel, or a Jury,
While you were in the room ?—Not a word.
Did yon sit near him ?=There was only one between
us the whole time.
By Mr. JONES.—At what hour did the party assem-
ble?—We assembled about eight o'clock, and departed at
eleven.
Did you keep. the same place all the time?-1 was near
the Sheriff during the whole of the time.
Did tou play ?—We did.
At what game?—At cards,
Was it a round game ?—We played' at five and ten.
Could you hear every thing that the Sheriff said to.
hi‘Connel?—l could, unless be whispered him.
Then he could say nothing without your hearing?—
He could not.
How many persons were of the party?—Nine.
Were there any ladies ?—Tbere were.
Should you have beard any conversation between the
Sheriff and the ladles V—The iladies formed 'a party among
themselves, apart from us, and no conversation passed be-
tween us.
Did you not intermix during the three hours I—We. did
not exactly intermix, the ladies were at one part of the room
and did not play at cards.
How many ladies were there?—Three..
How many gentlemen 2—Six.
During the intervals of play, did not the ladles mix with
you ?—They did not.
Did they not intermix with yen during the three hours?—
In the latter part of the night they did, but no convene-
lion passed between them and Sheriff Thorpe without my
hearing.
By colonel BARRY.—If so remarkable an expression as
thit of hiving an Grange panel in his pocket, dropped from
Mr. Thorpe, yon could not but hear JO—Certainly, I should
have heard it. •
By Mr. R. SMITH.—Did you hear Mr. Thorpe say any
thing about the Lord-L'eutenant t—i did not.
• Do you remember him, or env of the party. hot? out the
ilk of clubs, and mike ute oftiny remarkable expression?
—.I remember Mr. Graham doing so.
What did he do?—He held the ace of clubs in his band
ISd made a rellection.—(l laugh.)
Well, what was that?-He used some words to the effect
of theSord Mayor.
Any more; come tell IN 1-1 don't remember. •
Did any of the ladles multi sny observation /—No.
Did he say no more than 4—rt the 1;ord Mayor 1-1 beard
no more.
, When Mr. Sheriff Thorpe was leaving, did you go to the
chief With. did not.
zoo. beet him say any:thleg of the Marquess of Wel.
leggy/AIM eveblng I—l did not.
• Ili Mr. Sheriff Thorpe an Orabie-men 1-1 don't-know.
inersawn feeling et to:palitics 1-1 matotain the
PrdteSiantelettidanef.

I

` By ?Tit% BROUGIIAM.—Were yqarimthe.roons when Mr.
Thorpe first enterehljt?-1 was dare before him and re-
mained after him:
Was ntersamnch ton aaaaa tionl—Yea, there was .a good
deal.
How long were you chatting before you began to play at
eardat—About flfteee or twenty minutes.
What, was it for the purpose if card-playing you met?—
No, f weat.there to Skit en infirm old friend.
When did you begin to•playt—We met about eight, and
fell to play at cards An about twenty minutes. I
Ho* were you placed I—the ladies set apart from the
gentlemen, who were seated round a table In the centre of
the room.
Vol were in a knot?—Not exactly tied.—(Laughter.)
• Do you think Sir, you have answered my question by
that I—Do you know in whithoese you so conduct yourself?
--We were sitting together lathe centre of-the room cog-
versi og occasionally.
During the twenty nannies before you began to play
Bards, how were you sested?—l sat one only from Mr. She-
riff Thorpe; Mr. Graham was betvreeti us.
Can you remember your relative pitsition so well as to
'say, that no one but Mr. Graham sat between you and. Mr.
Thoroe4—Tes, I tan.
What makes you remember so well your relative posi-
tion/--A question, which I asked Graham about the bottle.
What connection had that with the place you six occupied
in the room '7-4 don't welt hoot, .bat it had the effect of
fixing our position in my mind.
Explain how that you could fix your relativd position in.
your memory?—it wee on accusal of some gross expres-
sions M'Connel made use of, relative to the throwing of the
bottle and the riot.
Did yostake a note thee, or did you make a esensoran-.
dent after you went home of the places you ail sat in, and of
all the conversation you had I—l dict.aot. • .
' Can you take upon yourself to say, that you attended to
'neer thing that Sheriff said. ?—1 eon. •
__7kl t not some other person -be addressing you while
Mr. orpe was in eon lion with others near him —Yea :
but nothing could be said that 1 could not hear.
. By Mr. IL SMITH...4Iov long was it after that evening
that you beard M'Connel said the Sheriff made use of sack
expressions ?—A few/ days; about a week or so.
. By Mr. JONES.—Were you in the society of six perpoes
since that of December, likin 7—l wont undertake to say I
was.
Will you undertake to say„ that at any parties since, or'
during your life before, you can exactly remember the relit-.
tire position of the persons presets 7—No answer.
To a question by Mr..PLUNKETT.—It was quite impos-
'lbis any person in company could have said any thing.
Without my hearing it.
:To a question by Si G. HILL.—If such expreuloashed
bees used, they would have excited my attention. . •
By Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS.—Whet was the question;
you asked 'anthem ?—I asked was. there a bottle thrown..
What was ha answer?-1 think his answer was, there,
Was not.
Witness could not account for his want of recollection eit.
that point, and his distinct remembrance of all that Sherif.
Thorpe said.
By Mr. BROUGHAM.—Are you sure that Sheriff Thorpe,
sus at Slhthorpe's before you I—Yes.
Was M'Connei there before you 7—lt is not of sullcient.
zonsequence for me to recollect. ,
Let me tell you for your government, thatevery questicie.
As of cosseettseace,,and it Is further of high consequence to
yourself toaeswer every question with truth.—The conver-
satiate held two days after was the reason for his recollect-
ing the portions of the different parties on that night.
M'Connel did not use any gross expression. ll'Connel
Went away before• Thorpe left the party. Sheriff Thorpe.
went away with his wi e.
By Mr. FOWELL BUXTON.—I wish to know which
anwiret the witness will adheie to, whether M•Coneel did'
ask the question or not 7—That he did not. '
Why, at the commencement of the examination, you Said:
you did not recollect.
By Mr:•SYKES —lf yon do not recollect the question of
M'Connel, why do you call it e gross one?—lf I might an-
swer that in a general way, I would wish to forget all the
expressions.—(A laugh.)
What made you term it a gross expression?—All ex-;
preaeinns are gross that are not grammatical.—(Loud
laughiiii,.)
Is the credit of your testimony in general to be measured.
by the credit due to the last answer 7—Oh no: by no means.
William Graham was called in; be stated himself to be a

printer.
Examined by Colonel BARRY.—IIe was in company at
Sibthorpe's shortly after the riots on the 17th of. December.
Thorpe came In before him. M'Connel was in before him.
Did net recollect that there was any conversation at Sheriff
Thorpe's relative to the panel. Sheriff Thorpe left the com-
pany before him.
Mr. BROUGHAM.--You had an ex-officio information
Sled against you t-1 had.
Were you tried on that I—l was.
Was a bill Sled against you, or ignored?—lgnored, I
believe.
Had you any reason to doubt itl—None.
When did you arrive in town I—On Friday last.
Have you been with the other witnesses since?--4 have.
Have you seen the witnesses brought against the Sheriff?
—I have.
Have you spoken evilest those witnesses !—I dare say I
have.
Have you spoken very abusively against them 7—l dare
say I might.
Do you know one Serjeant Harris 7—l do.
Have you not said to him you ought to be ducked I—l
might.
Had you not a sword-cane in your bands ?—I might.
Were you not brandishing and flourishing it in the
witness's room?—I might.
Did you not say yoU would do fur some o f them before
you left?-1 might.
Sir .ROBERT HERON, the Chairman, said—Wit-
ness, you do not appear to have a proper opinion either
of the character of the place you stand in, or of the evi-
dence yen are giving.
The witness is acquainted with Sheriff ThorpLe. The
ladies and the gentlemen sat together at Mr. Sibthorpe's
that night. The re was no conversation about who
threw the bottle. No one asked hint whether he threw
the bottle. Mr. Jackson did not use any, gross expres-
sion. Witness went away with Jackson and M'Connel.
Thorpe went away before.
By Mr. SMITH.—What did you say when the knave
of clubs was played ?—I said there goei the Lord Mayor.
Any more?—And be damned.
Was any remark made by any person, of by the ladies?
—There might.
Yon frequently are in the habit of d—g the Lord
Mayor ?—I am.
Are pia in the habit of d—g the Lord Lieute-
nant ?—No.
Did any one d—n the Lord Lieutenant ?-I‘lo.
Did you wish him to be sent to heaven?—No.
By Sir J AMES MACKINTOSH.—Are you a sworn
Or.mgemao ?—1 ans.
The witness was ordered to withdraw, and the Ser.
joint instructed to keep hint apart front the other wit-
nesses.
Col. BARRY begged leave to ask the Right Hon.
the Attorney General for Ireland, if be bad any objection
so answer a few ittestions in his place?
.Mr. PLUNKL rl' said be. ad not.
Col. BARRY placed a letter in Mr. Plunkett's band.
—Was that letter written by the Right Hon. Oentle-
man's directions?-4t was.
What was the reason of the Right Hon. Gentleman's
writing that letter?—Because I was apprehensive, from
what I heard, that an at cult would be us sde to impanel
an improper Jury.
May I ask what would the nature of that Juiy be
wbich'the Right Hon. Gentleman would consider a pro-
per Jury ?—(Answer not heard.)
May I ask the Right lion. Gentleman if a man being
an Orangeman would be a sufficient objection with him
to be admitted on- the Jay ?—Certainly; it would be
perhaps a legal-objection : to impanel a whole, Jury of
'Orangemen; would be a gross violation of the law.
Mr. BROUGHAM objected to an examination of the

\

Right Hon. tientleman, in a rase where his own bonoir
and character were so deeply concerned.
Col. BARRY said he had taken care to ask the Rt.
lion. Genthman if be would have any objection to an.
ewer a few Mnestions before he bad put any.
Mr. WEIIiERELL thought the House should know
to what extent the examination was to be carried, before
any further considerations were permitted.
3dr. WYNN.—It appeared to him to be open to the
House to call for any lion. Gentleman's testimony.—
That the Kruse had a right to examine the Attorney-
General, there could be no doubt, but it was another
question whether they could ask bins touching the sort
of Jury which be wished to have, as tls it trenchod upon
his office. _ _ _

Colon-1 BARRY.—After what has been said, I cannot ger
on without explaining myself, The situation in which I sin
placed, is a painful one. 1 hive undertaken to conduct this
case, perhaps unfortunate for those concerned, and no con-
sideration stall induce me to shrink from the performance of
my duty.--(ilear). I will examine every witness that I
think necessary to the defence of the party accused. if the
House think I ought not to push this inquiry further, I will
desist of coarse ; but until such an opinion is expressed, [
shall feel myself called upon to proceed. The question
which I have put, certainly was one of opinion, but I meant
that it should be introductory to questions of feel. I wish
then to ask the Right lion. Gent. whether Ite has ever had
the rules and mentions of Orangemen laid before him.
Mr. PLUNEETT.—I don't know exactly what the ques-
elms means. 1 certainly have bed a printed book, and
written extracts from books of the rules and regulations of
Orangemeh laid before me ; in that sense they have been laid
before me,
• Mr. WETHERELL was rising to.repeat his objection,
when
Mr. PLUNKETT adiled—" I beg the Hon. Gentleman's
pardon, bat I wish to say. that I will answer any question,
but I re,serve to my own case the right which I would ex-
ercise in that of say other win% ns, of objecting to any ques-
tion which I consider irrelevant. If the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman who conducts this inquiry thinks the quostinn rele-
vant to Sheriff Thorpe's defence, I aid answer it, but I.
think myself it is irrelevar t.
Mr. WETHERELL repeated his objection.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not think his Right
Hon Friend (Mr. Plunkett) being Attorney-General for Ire-
teed, was necessarily a bar to his being examined as a wit-
ness.—(Hetr). If any improper questions had been put, he
(the Attorney-Ginerst) would have felt it his duty to object
to them, belt° his knowledge no each questioe. had hitherto
been asked. He felt it, however, due to himself, and to all
others Who shotild fill the situation after him, to protest
against his Right honourable Friend's being questioned
respecting any fact of u hick lie caine to the knowledge ofli-
Sir JAMES MACINTOSH contended that the House
Iliad a right to examine the Irish Attorney-General. He con-
sidered the eourse of inquiry pertinent too, fur as it had been
said that the Orangemen were a faction so influenced fig
party feelings that it was improper to them upon a Jury,
it was a fair subject of inquiry to ascertain what the rules
and regulations of this faction were.
Mr. ASERCICOMBY agreed that such an inquiry was
very proper towards other witnesses, hut very improper to-
wards the first Law Officer of the Crown, as it seemed as if
the object was to extract from hint a legal opinion upon this
association.
Mr. PL(,'NKETT said, that in a popular sense,'he hid
no objection to answer the Right Honourable Gentleman's
question.
Mr. SCARLET!' said the safest coarse was to pursue the
inquiry, and trust to the sound discretion of the Right lion.
Gentleman himself, as to those questions, which be would
feel himself warranted in answering:—(lfeav).
By Colonel .BARRY.—lies the 'Right lion. Gentleman
any objection to state Whether these extracts %sere those of
Lodge 1612?
Mr. PLUNKETI'—.I don't know.
Will he object to state what was the nature of these writ-
ten extracts ?—I have no objection, but tie only difficulty
arises from the .badness of my memory. So far as that helps
me, I shall answer the question.
I wish only to ask, ishether these extracts dill-red in sub-
stance from the printed book ? —fly the written extracts I
meip the names of individuals. and minutes of their proceed-
Inp, exclusive of regulations. But I cannot speak cortect y
to any thing particular.
Will he object to state whether these parrs were pro-
cured for him by persons of the name of Atkinson :—I
think I ought not to answer that question.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH thought, that the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman should hare beenaskei whether the
knowledge which he had on the subject was obtained of-
ficially.
Mr..R. SMITH thought this would be unfair, as his
declining. to answer would lead to the inference that he
had obtained the information in the manner stated. Ile
asked why was not a written copy in print of the regula-
tions put in ?
Mr. CA LCIIAFT—I have a copy in print Odle Orange
regulations.
Colonel BARRY disclaimed the intention of ex-
tracting any thing from the Attorney-General by in-
ference.
Mr. PLUNKETT said be would have given the same
answer to any other Member of the House.
Col. BARRY said lie would not Ws, the examinatiim

farther.
The last question was then ordered to be expunged
from the minutes.
Mr. R. MARTIN.—I wish to ask the Right Hon. Gen-
Getman a question. Do you not think that it was in the
power of a Sheriff, fairly-minded, to inspanelaJury which
would do jostice to both parties, from the large panel of
the city of Dublin ?
Mr..PLUNKETT.—I don't know that I can object to
that question.
Mr. MARTIN.--I'm sure the Sheriff could.
Mr. PLU,NKETT.—!'hen 1 ought to ask you the guys-
tion.—(Laughing.)
Mr. bIARTIN.—If you did. I could not object to its
irrelevancy-1 would answer it.
A conversation now took place as to the next witness,
who should be called, but upon tl e suggestion of Mr.
WYNNE, Thos. Sibthorpe was called.
Examined by Col. BARRY.—Were yon in September
or December last in company with Sheriff Thorpe and
others at your father's house ?—I was.
Wbo were of the party ?—The Sheriff and his wife,
Graham and 111`Connel.
Was Jackson there ?—He was.
You played st cards?—Yes.
Did you hear Sheriff Thorpe say any thing respecting
the Grand Jury panel ?-1 did not.
Did you hear any one say, he had used such an expres-
sion ?—1 did. 1 heard that M'Connel made at that
such an expression was used; but referring to the time
when it was said. to have been used, 1 know it was impos-
sible.
You take on yourself to say that no such expressions
were used 2—lf they were used, I could not fail to re-
mark them.
By Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH.—Witness'a father
was in town, though not summoned to attend here. lie
was in the Jroool before any of the ompany arrived. The
Sheriff and his wife came firit; c
Jackson he thought
came next. .
Was there any political conversation ?—There was a
conversation about the riot.
Lid it last any time?—Not longer than an ordinary
conversation.
Did Jackson and M'Connel take part in it ?—T.hey did.
Did • M'Connel say any thing that struck you as
very gross or offensise to any body ?—I don't recollect.
Was their. any conversation respecting the Lerd Slayor?
—There was.
Who took a part is it ?—lt began by an obstrea'ig°
made lay some one present.
What was that observation bad
luck to Fleming." (A langh.) 3
'bleating the Lord Mayor .—Yest

Wsaiity tbing said about the Lord-Lieutenant ?—t
don't remember.
Was there no observation made at *H is that respect?
Sheriff Thorpe muds one.

What was the nature of it ?—He said he wished the
Marquess of Wellesley at the Devil.
Was this before or after playing at cards ?—Just as the
Sheriff was going away. •
Was this said loudly enough to be beard ?—These who
were at a distance could not hear it.
What was the size of the Room 7—Fourteen feet
ware.
Was nothing said about the riot, of the bottle ?—I don't
recollect.
Witness continued.—l heard nothing •aid about the
panel—if it had been said, I think I must have heard it.
By Mr. R. SMITH. —The Sheriff said nothing about
tie riot until this observation ?—He never heard the She-
riff say any thing about the Lord Lieutenant before. He
did not bear any one else say arty thing *pima the Lord
Lieutenant.

By Mr. SC 4 RLETT.—There way a conversation about
the riot?--Sheriff Thorpe took a part in it. He gave no
opinion upon the sub,ject of the riot.
In answer to questions from Mr. JONES. the witness
said that observationa might be made in one part of the
room which might have escaped his observation.
• Col. BARRY.—If Mr. Sheriff Thorpe bad said he bad
a panel in his pocket, would he not have accompanied tiro
remark with FUCII a g, s:nre as to aura x" your notice?-
110 answer.

The witness withdrew.
Wo.6redves was called in, and examined by Colonel
BARKY.—He said be was a Police Magistrate in Dub-
lin; recollected persons having been taken up for a riot at
the Theatre; he did not commit them. He recollected
Forbes having been apprehended at the Theatre for the
riot, taken to the watch-Noose, and brought before bias
the next dar.
Being asked if Forbes had not been accused'of a seri•
ous charge.
Mr. GOULBURN said this question bad no reference
to the conduct of rlrrstitseeift

Colonel BARRY conceited the question to be very
material.
Air. GOULBURN had no objection to a general in-
quiry into the conduct of the Irish Government. His ob-
ject stow was to save time ; and that was his reason fur
objecting to the question.
Sir .1. MACKINTOSH said he wished for the utmost
latitude of inquiry; but he could ant conceive how the
conduct of his Plight lion. Friend (Mr. Plunkett) bore
upon the case ; for that conduct had nothing to do with
the conduct of the Sheriff.
BE'NNET thought time question now pot to the
witnessing oar which ought to he put.
cohnel BAItItY askp4l what hal the evidence given
as to an ex-otficio informa•inn, filed by Mr.-Saurin ele.
. Ten years ago, to do with the conduct of the present She-
riff of Dublin? and yet that feet was given in evidence
in the course of the present inqniry. Whatever objec-
tions tuicht be made by Hunt:wattle Gentlemen on any
side of the House, lie nay determined to go on- in his own
way, and would not be stopped by any man in putting a
trestle-in, unless tie Committee came to a resolution that
he should tint put it.
Mr. PLUNKETT said that he had never introtteed
into this inquiry the fact of an ex-nffu.io Infortnati.m
baring been tiled by his predecessor in office. if that
fact titi been given in evidence, it was not in cdosequence
of any' itui-tions put •by him. All he bad done was to
t mention it incidentally before the present inquiry com-
menced.
Colonel .BARRY and another Hon. Member Tat
against stopping the examination.
Mr. WYNN thought it irregular, and was of opinion
they were net ant' Orised to enter into it by the instruc-
tions the Committee has received. The !louse, if this
had been contemplated, would have directed an inquiry
into the whole of the late transactions, instead of confin-
ing the committee to an investigation of the conduct of
the High Sheriff. He thought the Honourable
Gentleman, Colonel Barry, had taken a higher ground
than he was authorised to take, when be declared it to

be Lis resolution to persevere. He did not see how the

present examination could be made to bear on the
manner in which the High Sheriff had selected the Grand
Jere.
fdr. BRIGHT observed that there are many other par-
ties connect' i with this question besides the Wand Jury,
and Sheriff; and as toe result of this investigation
might lead to an equal administration of justice in Ire.
land, he thought euery sort of inquiry ought to be per-
mitted.
Mr. GOULBURN was willing to hear the examina-
tion, If it was any way connected with the conduct of the
Sheriff.
The witness was called in, and Colonel BARRY pit
his last question to him. The witness said the charge
against the prisoner was a conspiracy to murder the
Lord Lieutenant. In a state of exasperated feeling, he
thought it would he difficult to find an impartial Jury.
Do you think the charge then made against Forbes
' tended to create that exasperated feeling?
Tbisquestion was objected to by Sir J. MACKINTOSH
as being a mere question of opinion.
' • Mr. U. BENNET observed that almost all questions
put to wi:nesses were questions of opinion.
The witness was then called back ; and, in answer to
the question he said the exasperation might he so in-
creased. He did not sign the committal of Forbes. He
had taken the information against him. Witness sub-
scribed one information, which he believes was as se-1
riot's as any against the traverscrs. Witness would not
have received a capital charge on any information sworn
before him. Witness understood that three of the
traverser. were committed on a capital charge. The
order for committal came from the Council Chamber.--
The committal of Forbes was signet). by Major Sirr in
witnees'spresence. The riots took place on the 14th of
December. 'f lie traversers were tineliy committed the
2:klDre•naber and the Grand Jury sat nn the Ist Jann-
P 7. •It is nnikelv that the Sheriff would have struck a
panel on the 17th becember.
leedilon; examined by Col. BARRY.—Wit-
eels knew James Ormsby. lie ti dead. Shortly before
his death witness had a conversation with him.'
The Ax IYANEY-CTENERAL wished to know what
the sabstanie of the testimony was.
Cot BARRY said that he proposed to show that those
witnesses were wrong who stated that it was Graham
who titrew the nit le.
Mr. PLUNKETT said, the testimony of those wit-
nesses m it be impeached by legal evidence.
• Mr. BROUGHAM said that answers might be receiv-
ol en this inquiry, nbich were not admissible according
to the lire.' rules of evidence.
Colonel BARRY said, lie should show- by the pre•wat
Witness, that t.) mrby made a declaration before has
death, that it «al be who threw the rattle. And be
would show by aitither witness, that Ormsby was identi-
fied in gaol as the per.on a bo threw the rattle.
The ATIORNEY-GENEItAL protested against the
doetriugurged by his Hon. anal Learned Friend ; and
thought that the evidence should be strictly sanctioned
by the roles of evidence.
Witness recalled-.—He called in March on Ormsby,
cad Num) bins iu a danger..ue state.--Speaking with
resweerto the tra vergers, he said,Vse lads have come off
ben r than it could be expected ; they little knew that it
34 poor...lames Onwby, she is now going to Davy
that thiew the rattle Ormsby was a low sallow
was perfectly serious. Be had been long
I.tioess saw Ormsby before tti. t, anal after the riot
aitaess saw him in conversation, kiandwich mast