The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-02-18 00:00:00

duty here of wheat was 20s,

le corn was still unknown.
bat when the averages at two periods
duties the same, there was still a great
ce of corn to the consumer. Another
stein was that it often caused a contraction
. The system of prohibition at one minute.
ion the next, could not but aggravate such an
Another evil was, that frauds could not be prevented
the system. The most serious evil was, that it confined
) the north of Europe. If corn were brought
s, in all probability when it arrived
rice, and thus the car-

:d to sa

y would_ be prohibitory

to a period in - this nue-s-

.
done than to make
The noble lord
ay the

that in whatever

taken t

verages

lity of

ant conntr

goes were thrown on the hands of the Merchant. The United
States of America were by this system precluded from trading
extensively with us in corn. The great population of the
States cultivated immense tracts of arable land, and if they
could afford to send their corn to this country they could not
but be glad to receive our manufactures. They there bad
in opportunity of extending their commerce; but as long as
tiding scale existed the Americans would think it a gam-
and an uncertain trade. He thought it monstrous that
hould now be legislating not equally for all countries.
roduce of the world was open to them, and they need
• a frequent scarcity. He proposed a moderate fixed
Such a duty had been recommended by persons of
By Mr. Malthus, by Mr. Ricardo, and
The committee of 1821, comprising many
lent in agriculture, recommended a moderate fixed
That committee expressed a doubt whether the only

Mr. M'CulloCh

n 1830, doubted whether in the present amount of
the corn laws could be continued. He (Lord J.
I had proposed, that in case of scarcity, there should
cretionary power in the crown to open the ports.
erial cheers.) That which was really important was,
ere should be a constant trade ; that corn should never
it out, and at a certain price it should be let in more
There was another point to which he would refer.
the distress which existed in the manufacturing
,lets both in England and Scotland. The right hen.
entleman said that the corn laws did not caece the dis-
tress. He (Lord John Russell) thought those laws had,
however, aggravated it. The major part of the wages of
`he labouring classes was spent in the purchase of corn.
then they had a freer admission of foreign corn, these
sses, being able to purchase food at a cheaper rate,
Id consume more manufactures. The right honourable
-an thought that the distress was caused by over
1, increase of machinery, and other causes.
is not according to his (Lord John Russell's) belief
-.e. As to the increase of machinery lessening
—as well known to be .a fallacy. The people
relief might be obtained by a change in
house did not grant a total repeal, they
wishes by a material alteration. The
gentleman said that an alteration of these
.ould not improve the condition of the people. (Hear.)
t he (Lord Russell) believed, certainly, as regarded the
)osed measure of the government. (Opposition cheers.)
thought they could not legislate to any purpose unless
rejected that measure. They could then consider the
,es of the people and the burdens affecting agriculture
the interests of every other class. If, however, the
sure of the government were carried, discontent would
in England, and the people would attribute to their

Intim on which agriculture should rest was not the
'section or prohibition for the application of ea-
- Mr. Huskisson, in his

taxation

hat the

Auction

emplo'

ght that

presentatives a bias towards the agricultural interests, and
th a partial view to their own advantage. (Loud cheers.)
was his hope, however, that they would make a decision
r the benefit of the whole community of Great Britain. The
Ible lord then concluded by the motion of which he had
ven notice.

Ir. GLADSTONE said, the real question was, not which
: of the house could collect the greatest array of prejudice
__ •

ana passion in its support; but whether, looking to what is
practically best, the house ought, under all the considerations

involved in the subject, to accept the proposal of his right
hon. friend (Sir R. Peel) or to adopt that proposed last year
hv the noble lord. Now he was prepared to contend that the

tibuted

ctributed to the existing corn-law were to be attr
aat law only in a limited degree, and he should further
atend that the evils themselves warp ~,,.... _ .
ited. Re forth— -
drieiert
naded that the advantages of a fixed
rocs
such ,, ed, and that the objections which
duty on its own merits were perfectly in.
• The sliding scale was said to have been charge-
, the evil of leadingdto severe fluctuations in price,
gar fluctuations had
-• prevailed.
it rye in Prussia at differehnr.
The
place in countries where
ea
g periodsent l e, mi
ea norder
o tteod s
e thep -
- of the caeseepi e t
in
ye being in Prussia used as the
1 food of the p about the same proportion as
This
vas used in England.
u, he said, proved that the
ions were to be attributed
to the difficulty of adjusting
1., ro the demand, rather than
to any inherent evil in
Pie hon. gentleman then went on to show that at
..: noble lord and Sir R. Peel would, like great planets,
but as the noble
a conjunction as far as respected duty,
d would not reduce his 8s duty to is un,til it reached 73s or
the
toaverars
;
is, surely his plan held out far more temptations than that
if his right honourable friend to tamper
with
uce for his right honourable friend's proposal was
gradually and not suddenly, like that of the noble lord. reord. As
, 20s duty a prohibitory one, he
o
ouse that that duty was only levied whenhai thet
Jule
indicated an abundant supply in the
at which time any material supply of foreign orne
corn
prejudicial, and if this were to be considered a pro.
ty, he must say that he sincerely hoped that we
ls be blest with such a one. Since the year 1704,
mys been a maximum duty of 20s on the impor-
,,n corn, and in the course of that time there
-oars which was triumphantly referred to
-1 of the corn laws as one during
corn practically prevailed.
"., did prevail during

3- such la.

6-Is th

to considering the

tation of for,

I of 30

free trail

iree Enloe .
ievertheless the maximum duty of 20s was
whole time. It was said that if we took the
.ntries they would take our manufactures in
he would not have the bon. gentleman be
fly stood the case with Russia ? Was it
Id not take Russian produce that Russia
?ui:manufactures? The tact was this—we

ato the value of two millions per annum,
and we imported from.that country over six millions in value.
In addition to this Russia had r,cently published a new tariff
by which additionel restrictions were placed upon the impor-
tation into that country of British produce, which showed
that other countries were much more favourable to an imi-
tation of us in our former restrictive system, than likely to
" Nus in our modern system of relaxing those restrictions.
hon. gentleman concluded by vindicating the measure of
;overntnent as a great improvement of the present corn
end, therefore, gave to it his hearty and conscientious
"—a, hear).

C. WOOD said, it was out of the question to pretend
that we should not be dependent on foreign nations
na,
wh wiast ten pears, the produce of the
YZn lien* sup its population, and When
1...----‘'.q-,
ilevro

evoxy future

that the evil

was cvm,.... -
year. We must, therefore, be dependent in a great measui
upon foreign supply, and the only question was as to the way
in which that supply could be obtained with the feast possi-
ble injury to any class of the community. The hon. gentle-
••thened argument, interspersed
.-, show that a fixed duty

le 1 man then entered into a 1

LL said

Y not only the

far as his experience went he be-

•oposed by the_ gOvernment would gra-

but ah,o

sterial side of the house that this coun-

country could near_
could not do so, the systim-of averages enabled them to ob-
tain a sufficient supply without risking the prosperity of the
agricultural classes of society. They knew from experience

been held that in a
supply itself

)od aver

harvest the
and when it

iatthey had little to expect from concession

When Ca-

tholic emancipation was granted in the most liberal manner,
it was said that the reason of granting so liberal a measure
was that it might give the fullest satisfaction. It gave satis-
faction, however, but fora short time. Again, in the case of
the Reform Bill, it was said in defence of the extent to which
it went, that the people would not be satisfied with less.
What was the result? The noble lord who brought it for-

ward had subsequently more trouble to defend his "finality
than he ever had to upset the rotten boroughs. For the sal

of conciliation, therefore, they should not depart from that

hich was sound in principle.
Dr. BOWRING said that the inferences drawn from his ac-

counts of the consumption of the necessaries of life in
Prussia, by the right honourable baronet (Sir R. Peel) were
erroneous ; but even if true, and if there was a greater con-
sumption per bead in England, that was no reason why it
should be reduced. The fact was, however, that the condi-
tion of the people of England was, year after year, becoming
wo

while in Prussia the condition of the inhabitants was
progressively improving. He would prefer the scale sug-
gested by Mr. Christopher to that proposed by the govern-
ment, for under the latter plan we could never have corn ad-
mitted in any quantity except under very rare circumstances,

.
and concluded by a warning to the landed interests not to
deal too harshly by the people, who paid more in pro

portion

to their means than the laiideil proprietors to the support of
the expenses of the state.

Mr. FERRAND then supported the proposition of govern-
ment, some extracts from whose speech we give elsewhere.
The house adjourned.

HOUSE OF OF LORDS.-TUESDAY

The royal assent was given, by,commission, to the Appro-
priation Acts Amendment. Bill.
The Earl of RIPON. in reply to a question from Lord
Brougham, sad that the new towns added to those from which
the averages were previously/taken were not selected from a
supposition that their averages were lower than those of the
latter, but with the view of obtaining a fair average price for
the regulation of the duty, and to render it more difficult to

t fraud

comm.. s in taking the averages.
The Loan Societies Bill was brought up from the House of

Commons, and read a first time

Adjourned until Thursday

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-TUESDAY

Colonel Fox begged to ask if the right hon. baronet had
received any intimation of the movements of Cabrera, and,
connected therewith, of a projected insurrection in Spain?
Sir R. Pzur, said he had received intelligence to that
effect, but he had received nothing in the shape of an official
communication upon the subject. He expressed an earnest
hope that the government of Spain, resting as it did on the
good wishes of the bulk of the Spanish people, would resist
any machinations directed against it.
The LORD ADVOCATE read some letters from Scotland,
showing that he was not wrong in what he bad said on a
former evening as to the attend ince to the duties of the bench
of the late Lord President of the Court of Session.

The adjourned debate was resumed by Sir W. CLAY, who
said he was no friend to a protecting duty on corn. He had
no doubt the right hon. baronet would carry his present bill,
but it was beyond his power in this manner to settle a
question which was now taken up by the people of England.
Captain HAMILTON professed himself an advocate of a
sliding scale, and although he thought the right hon. baronet
(Sir R. Peel) had demanded a very great sacrifice from the
agricultural classes, yet he should support his proposition
generally ; thinking, notwithstanding, that some greater pro-
tection was requisite than that which he proposed to give to
the agriculturist.

Mi. CIIILDERS contended that the operation of the go-
vernment scheme of duties on corn would only tend to render
the restrictive system more stringent. He had no doubt
that the present measure would be. carried ; but how long
would it last ? Just until the first dissolution of parliament,
when the whigs would once more walk across the floor of
that house, to take possession of the ministerial benches.
Captain Rous said, he agreed in the sentiment expressed
by the late premier, that the man who would vote for the total
repeal of the corn-laws was fit for Bedlam. A celebrated
French deplomatist had said that words were given to man
to conceal his thoughts ; and this he never saw so well illus-
trated as by the arguments of honourable gentlemen opposite,
who spoke of the immense benefits to be derived by the poor
from having their bread twopence a loaf cheaper, while in
reality they well 'knew the twopence would find its way into
their own pockets. If the right bon. baronet would pursue
a middle course, neither caring for the murmurs of the high
aristocracy nor fearing the outcry:of a deluded populace, he
might remain in his present position as long as he pleased,
for there was no power on earth which could turn him out
of it.

Mr. WILLIAMS thought the measure before the house so
little practically different from the present law, that it could
lead to no beneficial result. Its greatest evil, he looked upon,
would be the same as that of the present law—the derange-
ment of the currency. This evil was entirely caused by the
sliding scale, which bad also the prejudicial effect of leading
to the employment of foreign shipping instead of our own.
It was admitted that the corn laws were maintained for the
purpose of enabling the landlords to obtain high prices.
Now, he would ask, who paid these high prices? Were they
not paid by the consumers ? and who were the consumers ?
The mass of the people, who were thus taxed for the benefit
of the landowner. Unless this state of things should be al-
tered, unless the people should be enabled to buy food as
cheaply as it could be bought in other comktries, or nearly
so, the manufactures of this country must inevitably decline.

. Mr. 0. GORE animadverted upon the proceedings of the
anti-corn-law agitators, who had Ahaken the island to its
centre, to make a change which, could have little more effect
than that of making the paltry saving of five farthings a Week
in the price of bread for each person. He could understand
the straightforward motives of those who, like the hon. mem-
ber for Wolverhampton, moved for a total repeal of those
laws ? but he could look upon a fixed duty as one proposed
only for party purposes.
Mr. WARD was of opinion that the proposed plan was not
only better than the present law, but was also better than the
fixed duty proposed by Lord John Russell, for although he
agreed in the general principles laid down by the noble lord,
he thought the time for levying a fixed duty was fast passing
away. In fact the sliding scale of the right hon. baronet,
and the fixed duty of the noble lord, must both give way to a
free trade in corn. Indeed, there was an inconsistency in
the proposition of the right hon. baronet, inasmuch as he
adopted the principle of a fixed duty on corn crossing the
Canadian frontier from America, while adhering strictly to a
sliding scale at home. The people were on the watch to see
what the house would do, and if, on analysing the division,
they found that no one voted for the measure of the right
hon. baronet who had not a personal interest in doing so,
they would be apt to form an opinion of it not very favour-
able. He should vote for the motion of the noble lord, and
when the time came he should most certainly vote for the
motion of the hon. member for Wolverhampton.
Sir E. KNATCHMILL contended that the noble lord (Lord
J. Russell) could never have expected that his Bs. fixed duty
would have met with the concurrence of the landed interest,
He was willing to admit that if a sum could be agreed upon
by all classes as a fixed duty, and if that fixed duty could be
always maintained, he thought it would be better than any
other system ; but knowing as he did, and as was admitted
by the noble lord, that no fixed duty could be maintained
under some circumstances, he thought the proposition of the
government the most eligible that could be adopted. There
were burdens cast upon the landed interest, which entitled
them to some protection, and if hon. gentlemen were deter-
mined to carry out their principles of free trade, it was but
fair that.the agriculturists should not be the only sufferers.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the right hon. baronet who
had just spoken had clearly admitted that the object of the
bill before the house was to keep up the value of the estates
of the landed proprietors ; but in his opinion the paramount
duty of the house was to legislate for the benefit of the im-
mense majority of the British people. He then proceeded
to contend that, in future England must expect to consume
an increasing quantity of foreign corn, and said he felt it
necessary to undeceive those gentlemen who thought that
England might always safely look to Ireland as its natural
granary. Up to 1833 Ireland had sent a large proportion of
wheat to the English markets. In that year the quantity
sent was 844,000 quarters, but in every succeeding year the
quantity diminished until, in 1839, it had fallen to 258.000
quarters—in 1840. to 174,009, and in 1841, to 218,000. This
showed that Ireland could not be looked to hereafter as a
granary, though he admitted at once that this was to be attri-
buted to causes related to the increasing prosperity of Ire-
land. The right hon. gentleman then proceeded to analyse
the plan of the government, and disapproved of the addition
of 150 small towns to' those from whence the averages were
taken, as being calculated unfairly to lower the averages to
the extent of ss. a quarter. He acquitted the government of
any intention to affect them thus indirectly, but be was
assured that such would be the practical effect of the pro-
posed plan, in which case the whole plan would be so com-
pletely deranged that in some parts of the scale the people
would find themselves worse off than under the present sys-
tem. The right hon. gentleman then advocated, at conside-
rable length, the principle of a fixed duty, and expressed a fear
that the right hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) would deal with the
remainder of our tariff as timidly as he did with the corn
laws, in which case he would be only practising a similar
delusion to that of the plan before the house, or else that he
would deal boldly with the remainder of the tariff in propor-
tion to his timidity with the corn laws, and thus give rise to
the supposition that he was acting in reference to the power
of his supporters, rather than according to his sense of jus-
tice.

Sir E. KNATCHBULL denied that he had ever said one
word about raising the value of landed property.
Sir J. GRAnAin contended that the plan proposed by the
government was a fair composition between the disputing
parties on the subject of those corn duties. As to a fixed
duty, he would remind hon. members that that would not
satisfy the people any more than the proposed plan, for at
the great Leeds meeting, held about twelve months ago, a
banner was displayed, on which were inscribed the words,
" A fixed duty—a fixed injustice to the people." He would
also remind them that the Lord Mayor of Dublin had said
he would take the Bs. fixed duty as an instalment, and if
once they obtained it, he pledged himself that in six months
they would get rid of it altogether. So much for a fixed
duty, which was an absurdity, for in point of fact, thefinality
of legislation was a mere phantom, of which both the noble
lord (J. Russell) and himself had had no small experience.
The right hon. hart. then contended, that the proposed plan
would supply the largest quantity of corn when necessary,
at the smallest cost to the consumer, which was the very ob-
ject most desirable to accomplish. It was a curious fact,
that under those corn laws, which were said to he injurious
to the manufactures of this country, he found by a return
which he held in his hand, that the cotton manufactures
alone had increased within the last four years to an extent so
great, that the very increase was greater than the total of
our manufacture of cotton at the close of the war. When
the
right hon. hart. resumed his seat, the debate was ad-
journed.

HOUSE OF COMMOMS.—WEDNEsnAY.
Mr. THEsIGER called the attention of the house to the cir-
cumstances attending the petition against the return for the
last Belfast election. The Earl of Belfast, who was one of
the defeated candidates on that occasion, had petitionod
against the return. He had since then, however, been raised
to the peerage as Lord Ennishowen, and it was therefore con-
trary to the privileges of the house that a peer should perse-
vere in an election petition.

An interesting conversation ensued, but it was felt, the
point being a novel one, that there bad not been a sufficient
time afforded for the consideration of the question, amieitts
further consideration was postponed.
Mr. BULLER resumed the adjourned debate on the pro-
posed alteration of the corn duties, and contended that the
plan of the government was buts mitigated mischief.
Sir W. JAMES said that public opinion was in favour of
protection to agriculture, and he was quite sure that his con-
stituents were willing to accept the measure of the govern-
ment as a boon to the community.
Mr. BERNAL contended that the plan of the government