The Statesman.
London, England, 1810-05-11 00:00:00

IHE STATESMAN

The SPEAKER thin infisrmed the House that
the Serjeant at MIN had also been served with a
process. '
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
as we understood, said, that the Setjeint had
been before the Sitting Committee in the morning.
Mr. WHITBREAD did not see why the House
should so totally abandon itself to the Committee
as not to have the Serjeant immediately before it.
self in order to hear what steps were taken against
him. He had heard, that the report of that Com-
mittee was to be presented to-morrow, and wished
to know whether it was intended to discuss it on
the day on which it was presented.
The CHANCELLOR sof. the EXCHEQUER
had no objection whatever to the Serjeant stating
to the House itself the measures which had been
taken against him. Ile thought it rather extra.
ordinary, however, in those who blamed Minis.
ters for not being able to give an immediate answer
on this subject, now to object to the immediate

consideration of the report.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, the Right Hon.
Gent. had totally mistaken him. He had given no
opinion whatever as to the propriety of the imme..
diato discussion of the report, but only wished to

•
know whether it was intended.
The Serjeant was then called in. Ile slated,
`that he had been served with a process, which he
;handed to the Clerk. The process was then read
by the Clerk, and was, like the Speaker'a, in the
usual form, laying, however, the damages in this

action at 20,0001.
It was also ordered to be referred to the Corn.
mittee.
Mr. WHITBREAD gave notice, (bathe would
on Monday next move fur certain correspoudeuce
between the Stamp-udice and the Treasury.

CAPTAIN FOSKETT.

Mr. LYTIgi,:rON ruse tb bring forward his
promised motion, feeling that the thinness of the
House was no reason why he should postpone it.
His purpose was to obtain certain paperh the pro-
duction of which he conceived to he necessary; hut
he declared, that any anxiety he felt fur their pro.
duction proceeded more from a consideration fur
the Illustrious Personage to whom they referred,
and from asulicitude for the fairness and character
of that House, than from any effect or weight
which they were likely to have upon the statement
which he was ultimately to make upon this sub.
ject. It was nut his wish to engage the House in
any military discussion, nor to interfere with the
proper authority of any military tribunal. With
this view he had' on the outset narrowed the
question to the -mere enforcement of military
law. He begged, therefore, to remind the House,
that his object was solely to enforce the execu-
tion of the regular established law of the army,
and nut to legislate for the army. It was much to
be regretted, that in the course of the discussion
which had taken place upon the admission of Cap.
tale Foskett's petition, an Honourable Officer of
high rank (Colonel Craufurd) had thought pro-
'• per to throw out some reflections upon the con.
elect and character of the Petitioner, which made
it necessary to call for certain documents, in order
Ito prove that those reflections were unfounded.
iThose papers were the several memorials from Cap.
twin F. to the Commander in Chief and to the
Adjutant-Geueral, together with the replies from
these Officers, and else from the Duke of Cum-
herbed. Copies of all these pipers were already
in his hands; and upon the opinion of some most
respectable Officers . w hum he had consulted, ists
was authorised to state that they fully sustained
the charge advanced by Capt. Foskett. But ho
wished to have them officially laid before the House.
If this proposition were objected to, what was the
inference ? Can Gentlemen be unwilling to publish
the statement of the Duke of Cumberland in his own
defence against the charge of Captain Faskett ?
Would these Gentlemen have it supposed that a
Prince's defence of himself was good for nothing,
Of unfit to meet the light ? If it were his object to
criminate that Illustrious Personage, he could ea
require a greater concession than the withholding
of such papers would imply.' But he bad no
such object. The only use he meant tO make of
the papers he alluded to would he of a defensive 111.
tare, for the vindication of Captain Foskett ; but
they should not in •any •degree tend to induce him
to vary the motion he had originally proposed to
bring before the House. The Hon. Member con.
eluded with moving for official copies of the docu-
ments he had mentioned, which hail passed from
the 4th of February, 1806, to. the 15th of Febru-
ary, 1,810.
Mr. M. SUTTON objected to the motion, be.
cause he did not think that any fair ground fur the
production of the document referred to had been
stated. The main object of the 'Petitioner was to
fix *upon the Commander in Chit f the direct breach
of law. But if it were Ineaut to ground that
charge upon the refusal of promotions. and that
the offitais. were to be ransacked roi•-the production"
of papers to make out such a charge, he submitted
to the serious consideration of the House, that the
admission of such a precedent must tend to inter-
fere with the whole systein,lry which tire Army has
been so long and so adviodageously governed.—
This maims confess ipy grilse out of the
dental observation of an individual in the course.
of a former debate, -and was that a ground for
calling fur pllper.:, w hick, reeording to the
confession of the Mover, were irrevelant to the ul-
timate object ? The complaint against the Com.
mender in Cirief for the non.execution of an Ar-
ticle of .War, was the professed end of the Peti.
don. But how did the ease stand ? The Petitioner
made vatious complaints. He fret stated, that an
attempt was made to pro Mote a junior officer, but
that attempt was not carried- into effect in_eonse-
(pence of the interposition of the- Commander in
Chief ;—next the Petitioner complain, that he was
not allowed have of absence when he required.
But was it not surprising, that an officer who had
been fourteen years in the army, should make that
a ground of complaint, or was the idea to he mile.
dotted, that that which was merely matter of rour.
tesy should be claimed as a matter of right? Was
it posale that any Gentleman acquainted uith
the conduct of the army, or carelseleut to judge of
the principles upon which it ought to be guverned,
would plead fur the propriety-of iuteifcring with

'..---
the discretion discretioe of any Maur commander upon a
question of this nature? The next ground of the''
Petitioner's complaint was, that he was left at
home when his regiment was sent to Spain: But was
it trot according to the established practice of the
army upon such an occasion to commit the depot
for recruits at home to the care of some old and ex-
lierienced officer, who was, of course, to be se.
lected by the Colonel ? Of this appointment, h _ow.
ever, Capt. F. com plained, and in consequence ano-
ther Officer was appointed in his place, and he was
'to have gone to Spain, if the regiment had nut
been ordered home. Thus then it appeared, that
every complaint put forth by the Petitioner had
been redressed, save that only which related to
the conduct of the Commander in Chief, eariittf•
lardy in the promotion of another Officer, to which
promotion the papers moved for could have no re.
ference. With that promotion, however, he pre.
sumed the House would ever be cautions of med.
dling, fur it tested epon a principle essential to
the encouragement of merit, namely, that of pro-
moting merit wherever it was to be found, even
though it was nut recommended by seniority of
standing is the army. He trusted indeed that the
House would pause before it attempted to inter-
pose with • the exercise of the increase of the I
Commander in Chief's discretion upon such a sub.
ject. For it could never be deemed discreet, or at
all admissible, that that House should be made'
the tribunal of appeal for soy Officer who th eight
himself entitled to promotion, or that complaints
should be encouraged against that authority in
which, according to the long-established practice
of the army, the right of disposing of suck pro-
motion was vested.
Mr. ABERCROMBIE, though he cotild not
concur in the sophistical arguments resorted to by
the Right Hole Gent. who spoke last, yet concur.
red with him in the justness of one of the conclu-
sions drawn from them ; that the House ought
not to consent to the prOduction of the papers
moved for by his lion. Friend ; when the question
for bringing up the Petition was debated alit had
been, he left the House under a couviction that if
the House would permit its being brought op 'hey
would not agree to its lying upon the table ; in
that expectation, however, he was disappointed,
and ho must say, that the House in allowing a Pe-
tition of that nature to lie epee the table, had
taken a step inerersistent with the strict line of
their duty. Ile thought it altogether a new doe.
trine that this House was bound to interfere in
questions of nelitary government between the ar-
my and the exectitive: he warned the House to be.
ware of any proceeding that could possibly admit
the construction of any attempt on' their part to
wrest from the executiv.i that power which constitu-
tionally and properly belongs to it ; nothing would
tend more effectually to relax that discipline that
-was so essential to the army, as the %resting from
Commanders in Chief all discretion whatever ;
however beautiful the' theory, that pro Motion
should be regulated by seniority, nothing would
be found more ill...judged in practice than a strict
and unqualified adherence to such a rule in prac-
tice, even admitting the alleged breach of the ar.
ticks of war; still, he contended, that. that was
Imo ground for that House assuming to itself the
right of judging and deterinieing upon such a
charge; as the party aggrieved had (mother gear.
ter to apply to fur remedy and redress. With
respect to the Duke of Cumberland, he thought
him placed in a situation unprecedentedly severe,
in consequence of the House agreeing to receive
the Petition in question, because there remained
upon their Journals a record of grievances im-
puted to his Royal Highness which the House re.
fusing to go further into, must leave unContra.
dieted on their Journals. He should vote against
the motion.
Mr. HENRY MARTIN was of a different
opinion from his Honourable Friend. He thought
that now the House had received the petition, they
were bound in common justice to the Petitioner to
give him every •op portisoity to substantiate the
allegations contained in his Petition.
Grneral CRAUFURD contended at outside-
rabic length that dangerous effects were to he ap.
prehended from the interposition-. of the House in
a question of the nature of that before them.—
With respect to the Papers moved for, they were
acknowledged to be not necessary to make out
the case of the Petitioner. Here then the chief,
if not the only reason for their production, had
been given up ; 'and it would be found, (hat the
more the proceedings in this liusinets assented a
detailed form, the more inconvenient and objec,
tionable they would be found. +This, however,
he would say, that the defence of the p,oke of
Cumberland could be rested, *Mm( any appre-
hension of the result, upon an ample admission
of the facts themselves. Here the -Gallant Officer
went into e detail of the grievances alleged to have
been suffered by Capt. Fobliett,,lniagitoreeded to
argue, that upon the Petitioner's own skewing, they
were nugatory and groundless. With ruts yet to the
charge of obstructing the promotion of Capt. Fos.
kett, he denied, in the first instance, that seniority
of standing iuvariably gave right or promotion ; it
gave a claim, the strength of which, however, might
4c cif her confirmed or destroyed by the merits of the
individual ; of those merits the Commanding Offi-
cer of the regiment was to judge. This discretion
could not be withheld without doing incalculable
mischief to the army—this then brought the quell:
(ion to the justice of Captain Foskett's military
pretensione Colonel Seymour had given his Royal
Highness the Mike of Cumberland his opinion of
those pretensions, and this opinion was not a fa.
vourable one ; Captain. Foskett 11211 not discover.
ed smelt know ledge of his profession in the (Ibid.
pline and conduct of his troops. He was not con.
s.dered as a good cavalry oil er. Colonel.Grant4
titan whom no man was a better nr snore citified
judge, haul declares! that Captain Foskett's troop
a as its so bad a state of discipline that it would be.
necessary to break it up ; this was the opinion of
Colonel Grant, one of the best field tamers in
England, or perhaps in Europe. There were
'spun the same viand, objections to the propriety
of letting Capt. F. go out to Spain. Another seri.
ous ground of complaint was, the duel ; the car-
cumstatsees of which Ise deemed atrocious. Tit
eldest Captain in the regiment (Capt. F.) 'vent gm.

,~

.....mi
. itAilid t li 'it n ` r..fit -
as i • ,I r o eel', a boy dig inn of
age, la a duel, befirdiiiiiia and another boy ahem
17, .the Corinit • and Lieutenant ; they fire throe
shots each, and' then,: after having done so *IC
out effect, an agreintent is ends that they dwelt
advance towards pub other a pace each shot ; W
the neat . fire, Lieutenant Wallace (he believed)
was in the act of setting a hair trigger, when his
pistol went off, and this was insisted upon as e
shot, and 'lie.. was obliged to stand as a log of weed
to be fired akvith hair triggers in a duel I Now he
(Gen. CranfuM) thought, that the second who
perMitted the settidg of hair-triggers in a duel, de.
served to be hanged upon the spot. [Hear, Itearil •
And yet the man who had seconded in that duel
complained of being barred of promotion. Had suck
a tiling happened in his regiment, he would have
brought the Officer to a Court Martial, and have
rejoiced at his being cashiered for the same of.
fence. • . With respect to the charge of blasting ti.e
future prospects of Captain Fuskett, he denied
that that could have been the intention or the wish
of either the Commander in Chief or the Duke of
Cumberland, as Captain Fosisett had been offered
a Majority in another regiment. As to the ex.
change, where such a circumstance happened be.
tween two Officers of different regiments with
the approbation of their Commandiag &Leen,
the juniors in each had no ground for complaint,
'for they remained as they were. He justified
the conduct of 'cite Commander in 'Chid in not
laying the memorial before the King : first, be-
, cause he hail no grievances to state, and next
that if he had, he had also a discretion to jut's;
of the necessity of laying them before his Me.
jcsty. Another fact he was anxious to sate na;
this, that the Commander in Chief had offered
Captain Foskett a Majority in a regiment they
serving in Portugal; his answer was, that besought
rot. redress and not for promotion ; this was the
answer of a matt complaining of his having been
debarred from the scrxice of his King and Country,
and professing his earnest anxiety fur such service.
tic did not believe that there was another ofiicur in
the army who would have given such an answer in
suede an offer. He concluded with expressing his
eativictian, that Captain Faskett had hest treatet
I by the Mike and the Commander in Chief with un.
I precedeittett lenity, forbearance, and inutleratioh.
The Honourable Mr.. WARD thought the
speech of the Gallant•Otliter, as far as it went, ra.
Sher an argument for the production of the lapis
than against it. He, however, agreed with his
Honourable. Friend (Mr. **crumble) that the
House could not be too -cantinas hi interfering itt
I eases of that kind. He, at the sante thee, thought
that the case of Captain Fuskett was one of buy
considerable hardship, and one that reflected any
thing but honour on the Illestritois Personage con.
corned ; tier had that hardship been lessened by
the sort of speech that had been delivered by the
sort' of speech that had been delivered by the
Gallant Officer pear 1] Individual grievances,
however, must Sall before the paramount plea of
the public interests. If they beard this co•nplaint
they would have fifty similar enes preferred to
them, and they should get another House el Cate.
mons to do tire business of the country, whiled,/
would he engrosses!' in military inqnititions; be.
`sides, he thought, the practice would have Owed.
feet, by frequent interference, of considerably
relaxing the discipline of this awes, by holdi
out inducemeuts to discontent ; for these MN"
lie must, with great reluctance, tote against thet. ••
motion.
Sir JAMES PULTnNEY said, that hail he
I been in the House when the petition had been pros
' posed, ,he should have voted for baseeeption.—
Ile took that occasion of adverting to ah Illertiolt
antic in that House upon a former ottasinn'il an
llantosrable Baronet (Sir F. Burdett), respecting
the iticrense of punishments in the 15th Light Bra.
atoms, since the Ciammand of it (levelled upon
the Duke of Cumberland. lie (Sir James) was
at that time unable 'to contradict that statement;
hittaipon so leaaptetit inquiry, he ascertained that
fewer punishments, and a less timber of Courts
Martial, had taken place during the period 9f his
Royal Highness having the command, than dnr.
ing the same lengli of time under any former t.
Commanding Officer.
Mr. W{LLIA NI SMITH acknowletked the
house to be in isl state-of Conaideruble embarrass.
meet, and that it hail nothing before it but t
choice of difficulties—;hey must believe either
Party in prejudice to, the other, Without On( ''
i into the merits of the question any further, lie,
was aware of the delicacy that should govern that •
House in any interreretwo with the Executive; •
but the principle had been laid down in so Inver ..
tilled a manner, that he would wish to know,'
it was to be understood that there mild be ne
case connected with the army into which the inves-
tigation of that flimsy would be justifiable?
.• Mr. WILITBILEAD obsernes, an relay to the
assertion, that since the Duke of Cumberland had
the command of the 15th regiment, the infliction of
punishment. had considerably diminished—that he
had also matte his inquiry, and the result was, that
there was no such diminution of
punishments, hat,
on the contrary, they had increased, and, until
very lately, the practice of pitapieting—a relies!
nholly discontinued in the service—was carriedlls
into effect in that regiment. 'e Honourable Gt.
init:graliteCrcaoteir.
indulge in the strongest aspersions againd PP'
tail; Fuskett. pie charge:l that Officer with cen-
t:tenet! oh'fidthiehoDuguhliteporforirollibefirvlsitnitittO
duct, which not alone affected his character as an
Officer, as a man of sense,
hut as a gentleman.
The Gallant„ General said, that Captain Foktltt
bad no grievance to enniptain of—that his own
actions. %verb the causes of the :linpodimentl to
his prnmation ; and that both in respect to the
pro Motion that was denied him, and his detenlloll
at home when his 'regiment was in Snail', al
were both attriblituble—:the first his being reports
a bad officer, who had been guilty of atrocities
conduct; and the last to the ineffective state tifl_tia
troop. After pleb aspersions cast urn Art ffis
cer, would it not be an act of crying
injustice torefuse the Papers for whit+ the Honourable Moser
.
has called ? II it be in the power of the Gallant
General to prove his statements, watt. ishjectio",
could he here to the rethiction of the whole 01

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