The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-03-17 00:00:00

The
The
for 0-

up t.
other
Earl
ward,

lio thliught -
of the Couocils of 4..... __ . . . _ ,
.60 , _ -
to *dig %Ponta until oftrr ttte 44cototon or1:f:
;the Peninsula
iitr,t7ll.:tiz!iehirjacl..i clods proceeding of last
Luivetotht t inhoties of haute, which .food theeef/trite itutt.
, etv of the war in
April. • POSTUOAL. ! the Peninsula wareatt thertkii Stich iis ta warrant
The Order of the Day ' having , been read, the the vote, at present theyetsere so much more evident i
Prince Regent's Meow was read by tile Clerk et and pressing, that he thought-it impossible 'that any
the table. All '. • ri .nur difference of opinion could preseil. Thsqueetion
The Earl of LIVE POd L sgul he did set MA was now drawn Alto a:compiles so narrow, that no
it necessary to take op much of their Lordsh!ps' time, man 'could deny the propriety of the grant, who was
this not being a new measure, but merely a confine- not prepared to state one of two things—either that
titian of the assistance afforded to Portugal in the there was something fundamentally wrong in the
last year. lie thought that at the present moment principle of subsidizing a tbreijgn power, or that the
there could be but one opinion on the subject. The ; state of the war in the Peninsula was such, that
defence of Portugal was undoubtedly the most essen- 1 notwithstanding the brilliaitt exploits of our armies,
tial point of all our continental operations. The ; and notwithstanding the solemnly plighted -Nth of
only (location upon former occasions was as to the I this country, it would be expedient to withhold our
practicability. It was proved, however, now by pecuniery assistance, the effect of which must iuevi-
experience, that by the system adopted by Lord itably be the withdrawing of the British forces en:
Wellington, and acting upon the principles of Lord artily from a country where their support was more,
Wellington, Portugal might be effectually defended. than ever required. He was not disposed to raise
It had been said, formerly, and some Officers even I any of the topics which had formerly excited opposi.
who had served in Portugal were of that opinion, I flea to this- measure; in the first. place, because it
that the Portuguese troops mild not be disciplined ; would be unnecessary, and in the second place, be-
so as effectively to face the enemy. It had been I-cause it woad •be impolitic, since nothing would'
proved, however, by experience, that under the ge- ' more contribute to the advantage of the getierali
tieral superintendence of British Officers (and in say. 1 cause than that a vote for its support should be byl
inichis he did not mean to detract from the merit of 1 the Commons of England, unanimously adopted. It
the Portuguese Officers, knowing as he did that now rested on the solid basis of experience, and.
their services . had been highly useful) these I whatever difference of sentiment might exist on coolie!.
troops bad- been brought to such a state of i tical subjects, he trusted that all would concur in an
discipline, that they not only effectively de- 9 expression of applause and admiration of the fidelity,
fended positions, but that they had effectively met valour, and constancy which had marked the Con-
in the field the best disciplined troops of France, duct of thy Portuguese nation. Llienr, /learn The
commanded by the most distinguished Officers of committee would. recollect that when the principle,
France. It was proved, therefore,that the supp Ily of the proposition was first discussed, two yearisitiee„,
granted to Portugal had not been idly wasted, but Weiiflfeinfiels-, and's-eine Military Officers of dis-;
lout been employed in a manner eminently beneficial. einguishedtalents, expressed grave doubts Whethete;
I! was at the same time a mistaken 'lotion to suppose in,,a.military point of view, the grant suggestwf
that Portugal herself did not largely contribute to etitiriti be of any utility; whetlpr an adequate force]
the same object, the Portuguese Government !raving ; could be raiset4 and whether, sJpposing it embodied,
dining the last year, in addition to the 2,000,0001. ; it would prove of any ultimate benefit to the general
sent from ' this country, expended the sum of i cause of the Peninsula and of Europe. The measured
1,800,0001. in the maintenance and support of the l however was carried by those who were of a con
troops. The continuance of the supply from this I trary opinion, and during that year such -a-respect.
country was not, therefore, asked for those who. : able army of Portuguese was eresed, that in the suee
would not contribute to defend themselves, but a : =caw. Session, when thequestiett was again brought
power, which sedulously endeavoured to maintain . forward, it was-found necessary to vary the mode in
and increase its means of defence. The difficulties which resistance should be given to it. He did not
with which Portugal had had to encounter in este- : think he was warranted in-calling it resistance, be-
blishing that system of' defence, were well known— ; cause they admired the rapidity and success with
diffizaties which could only bu overcome by the : which the object had been accomplished, and they
most persevering efforts. In whatever pole!. of view, ',admitted its utility. in principle, bat they maintained
therefore, the su eject was coneidered, whether our ii that the efforts of the eombined armies could not be
ancient alliance with Portugal, our engagements with , ultimately suicessful, as their protracted operations
that power, the exertions she had made, the benefi- ' had then ended only in a retreat by Lord %Ventage
cial effects produced by our assistance, the essential ton upon the lines et Ciatra, while the whole tetri.
importance to ours...lves of the defence of Portugal, tory that was of any comparative value, was left in
or the experience we had had of the practicability of the undisputefl, possession of the enemy. At least
that defence, he was satisfied there could be uo he- this objectiownias now removed, -and in a great de-
'station iii continuing the supply which had been gree by the aid afforded, because it had enabled the
voted last year. His Lordship concluded by moving Conine- uder in Chief t 4 put himself in such an ad-
an Address of concurrence in the object of the Prince vantageous condition, as compelled the French tal
Re reut's Message. I makea precipitate retreat. Thus Portugal was now italli
Earl GROSVENOR was desirous, in giving only relieved from the oppression of a lawless one.
Ids support to the Address, that he might not be un- my, who had been driven beyond the frontiers, ;nit
derstood as approving of the distracted and dis- one of his most important fortresses had been yielded
jointed system of policy pursued by Miaisters. He to the British army, which was in a state to act td
centlemned the lingering manner in which the war in the offensive. The subject was now, thereforirsedi-
the Peninsula was carried on, and urged that a great vseted of all objections before brought against RA.»
effort ought to be made, end that if that failed, it [Hear, hear!] The propriety of raising a tabled',
I
would be better to retire hem the cattiest. i military force was admitted, and that it was capableil
The Earl of DARN LKy also did not wish to be! of defending Portugal had been proved, by the Nicol
Understood as approving orthe Conduct of Ministers, : cessful enterprises in which it had been engaged.--;,
In giving his support to the Address. He thought, Olt the principle on which subsidies were granted, ,
however, that upon this subject the honour of the ; his Lordship wished to say a few words. It was due '
country was pledged, and that our interests would I to Portugal to assert, that if ever there was a subsidy
liz• compromised by starving the war in the l'enin- ' Whk,h could rest on sound and legitimate grounds it
sula. was the present. In the first place it was given to a
The Address was agreed to item. disc. and ordered 1 power to-which it had been not less the interest than
to be presented to his Royal Highness the Prince Re.. the pride of Great Britain to extend its support ; and
. gent by the Lords with white staves. in the next it might very fairly be questioned, whe-
AsAieurited till to-morrow (this day). titer it could be at all viewed in the light of a
- subsidy, as it was called) for to maintaina Bri-
-1.1"."" .'101::31.: OF COMMONS. tl " -

.ish army engaged in tr vcause in which the pros-
perity of this country law materially involved.—
it was impoisible at thitillho.a:dity ta• doubt that
.:* the

. ,
rastlereagh took the oaths and hi. peat.
Mr. W. POLEgove notice, that be would to.nitormw
r tea?e to bring iu three WILL 1. To enable the
Itiah • •INII

r_
Vantage at TaiMiers serviag *booed is Mars
1. Taiuneud the Laws relating to the ieWkw.
Lutd. 3. To amend an Act of last Session tot maisiag
for the FaA.,ilies of Priv4tes its dor Iri<St Militia.
i)uotia Cpl um Abut the inarniatty Bid were wet*
third time and
84r. WE LLLS! POLE moved for various papers relating
to titeappropriatiuta of Monies by the /Ward of irst Fruits fur
tl e rrectuu of Glebe Rousts is Irelaud fur the last "year:
Order"

to ...
11, tip., gallant egip""oolF ltbops, ated dl
,plendid exertleak #4 found odlitery skill of
Lord Wellington, . ham proved. neovoillos,
hod they not been 5e06141111, avom.“946=l6.lP'__
force, td Me , Im'averpot' talk
enemy bud borne testittitHit at 4.olltvis
by • ins of the vent, now
tt,,

4

creased, during the Last year, to between three sad
four millions.

tern
mLoord fwCaOrfCarHeßwAasNaEdolitidiettin at
laiendiiiffiseurral
tsyh:t.
!lie lines of Torres Vedras shouldteopbsesescsoinosnidoefr:d,hicuh
the. frontier of our operations, h
&es would prevent the French from establishing any
Tooting in Portugal ; and that, instead of occupying
Badajoz and Ciudad Rodrigo with our troops, which
ire not tenable, and which only served for traps
or our men, where the French might seize them, a
Art of our military force were detached to raise the
blockade eL,Cadizandto
.operate upon the easteee
and ..
coast of SpatoZere the whole force of • • - 2 mi.itary
,proceedinfs aught be:changed in a few weeks by g
'en-operation With our naval force.. In support er•
his opinion of the efficacy of this David and military.
co-operation,: the Noble Lord quoted a passage front
Demosthenes, recommending such a system ; and,
continued the'Noble Lord, if such a system were this country would have nothing to fear as.
to the issue; ...-
, . The sum was then voted without a division.
„Er— B. RyEOA
aK
KW
IV Lir
oltel N
to P LmYoNv le°, U
thatTli sodiJeNDsu.rn
of
....
60,0001. be granted to his Majesty, for the construe-
lit
tion of this work. He, after some observations oa
the adventages likely to arise from the opening this
I Wen% Moved that a sum not exceeding 80,0001. be
!granted to his Majesty for the purchase of quarries to
carry on the works at 41yapoutit Sound. The Redo,
lution was put and agreed to without any further ob-
servations.
.
The Committee et Ways and Means was post.
Iported to Wednesday ne • • ' '
1 The Marine Mutiny t twitimead athird time, and
passed.
The Local Militia Bill was read a third time.
Sir F. BURDETT rose, for the purpose of pro.
Iposing a clause, by way of rider, to prevent the in-
t, fiction of flogging in the Local Militia.
1 The SPEAKER apprehended that it was then ton
! late to propose a clause ; but thought it would be
competent to the Honourable Baronet to propose an
1 Amendment. •
I After a few words from Mr. Burrell,
Sir F. BURDETT then rose, for the purpose of
*reposing 'hit Amendment. lie said it was not his
wish to revive, then the debate coat had already oc-
• mined: upon the question of !logging—he wanted
-morely • to pot OR .record his objection to it
generally, and particularly as affecting , the Le.
cal Militia, as if this system of punishment was
allowed in the Local Militia, it. was extend-
ing it to the whole population of the country.—
, He mentioned the case of Taylor, a man of talents
and attainments far above his station its life, who
had been flogged for writing some verses against
some olfrers. He thought too the affair at Ely a
memorable instance of the gross abuse of this poeer
—in that case it appeared that the young men
Ithought tdat they were ender the Act entitled to the
marching guinea—they acted unties that misappre-
Lhenaion, and were sentenced to receive 500 lashes.
--4le then moved as an amendment to that clause of
the Bill subjecting the Local Militia to the -Articles
of War, kec. excepting so fur as same extends to the
-11thiction of corporal punishment:
.-.Mr. GDULBURN objected to the Amendment,
as going-41.0y to' time the men when trendier, and
wet ,when called out'itli(e actual servke.
- Colonel WOOD 4, . he could state, on the an.
thorny of General Beckwith, that a book had been
found, after the notion of Fuente d'Hostore, in
which were entries of 320 Courts Martial in the
French army within-the-preceding six months, in all
of which capital punisluneuts were imposed, and in
addition the parents of each of the parties, they hav-
ing all deserted, were sentenced to six months impri-
sonment, and to pay fines of 100 marks. The book
Nisi been lost; butt,General Beckwith had assured
him, that if say .similar one should afterwards be
found, he should transmit lUterne, for the informs-
tiou of the liosee. , , , e , i R...,
Mr. W. SMITH, ettateliSt.Vition the argument to
be deduced flew* eirctittefaislie last meutioued cut
quite the othetemay,- at iteiherseed
rpuslabineo •Wiltilltopetelerable to the French army,
than that'ef lagging. that even a capital
1 Mr. WWl' was satisfied with the practke .as it
I now prevailed, mitigated as it had lately been.
1 Mr. WHITBREAD contended, that it was mile
taken idea in Gentlemett to suppose Hutt those who
;agreed with him in opinion Wished .to. Interfere with
the discipline of the army. They were not for
- a relaxation of the discipline of.,the afttiy, but for
' an abolition of the torture of ilogging„ as favourable
: to that discipline. , The Local M
to be owervel, Was not composediliotifltl te7H:Mi t wase*Os
with the army. They were battotted ' fee; and Om-
' *lel to serve. When thellono uiatite CANNA,' or
tie gallant General, to whom he referred, chanced
again to `find the book Which had already been awe
fouutl awl lesi,he Weineci they --uld be able to.sbew
4 the punishment in

gal, thedeleiteettenshilledi 'unimportant portion. To I
the suggestion first made three i' ears sleep, he had I
giveiridtebtied cerien ; but'. • he saw that the I
ln
money h* libeis •
thus iroproPer e applied to other ob-
jects
than those intedded, he could not now consent
that any additlemdburden,shoul be imposed upon
"the people. When he found that the lavish expen-
diture on the war in Portugal had been attended
with none of those beneficial results before ecpected4
lie thought he had a full right to alter his sentimeate4
' since ez perleace had taught him that they were origitm'e
ly foundetin error and mistake. The design was, thi 4
emancipation of Spain, yet the cause of that country mai
now hopeless, and the British Army was unable to i
accomplish any thing, not venturing to advance 4'
;,single man beyond the confines of Portugal. There
did not even remain the shadow of a ground on which 1
to build a delusive hope of ultimate deliverance from
I the power of France. He felt that he was pursuing
'a course. not the most popular, and he had not only'
,to contend against the opinions.of Gentlemen on the 1
,other side of the Haase, but even against the senti-
ents of those with.whom he had been accustomed to
act. He felt it, however, to he his duty to state lib
opinions; and he was convinced that if any Member
wlr3 voted for
.this grant, when it was originally •
brought forward, had been then told that the state of ,
the war he'reittugal (for in Spain it could scarcely be
called a Misr) would have been such as we now be-
Iheld it, he would have given it his decided negative.
He would not now eater upon the manner in
which hostilities had 'been conducted in epaifi, I
nor indulge in speculations of what Bries.W.**ta-
-1 lents, bravery, and discipline might have effected;
[but certain it was, that we had a right to complain
of a total want of co-operation. If he * were .re-
squired to vote two millionsior Portugal, it would be
another question, on which neither he nor the Goie-
Infitee Were yet prepared to *decide • but, siiihq the
4lttlo information it did possess, he thought it-would
! be perfectly uteustillitble to draw from the draiiitd
pockets of the people it England any further Bitted-1
for the maintenance of a war, the unfortunate
result of which could be ao longer dubious. When It
Iwas coesicheredl diet Wilbed .expended nearly one
hundred millions this' year, he thought there was a
sufficient reason why we ought to be more economi-
I cal; and it was his decided opinion, that it would
I be impossible to maintain the present system of elle
I peaditare beyond this year. „lA, therefore, it was die!
sirable to economise, the -House could not have, a._.
- better-opportenity tobegin than on the present occa.
, sion, Whea they were called upon: td 'tote a sot
I which had now, become annual, and !which, in 'feel,
i might be considered as a part of the army estizpiihi.
I If Portugal had increased her resources, as the Noble
Lord stated, that was a reason, in his mine, why we
ought not to grant this subsidy at a time when our
own revenues had decreased. He thought, indeed,
• that subsidizing the Portuguese to fight their
".this
battles was an anomalous idea; for tepee's° this
Isometry were invaded by a foreign enemy, would we
f Maier ourselves to be paid to carry the musket ?
Lui lung/el—Before ho sat down he wished to say a
Iker words at toithe detail of expenees for the-army
is Portugal, which detail would nnere„telecikee, sug-
gest the propriety of economy. Tisecrase•eastid
not, or at least ought not to be less *thee 40,111.
*tong • for effective purposes, and tem verf.ce•
Itliablishment of it cost this country 4000h' 4
'This was a. fact which he was preparetkto„Ooile4i-
Every horse that was employed cost is.3teciay,'while
all the torn, bay, &c. that was teqteraftellilellepeettid
into Lisbon from America, Mid the ine.lefensported
to the army. The maintenance of eke army Wolf,
he meant in a state of effective vigour, he believed to
be almost a physical impdesibility. IVe had not the
iliophiation necessary to suppi:y its *mite. Wieled
alteady driwn so largely upon our militia regiMents
for that purpose,* that many .of, dew regiments
were now incomplete, because • seine cocottes could
not afford otliallot of men. Thereeett :no chance
on of oleisuiting our !mai 'frost, that source
4,l4Neved that it leelaidebraratterly en-
Poselble, in erety point 'of vietto.'in continue this
expenditure. Before he concluded, however, he
wieliett'to d*nd himself from a char e that had
beiniketlight agniast him, that he was didioni;of
withemusing it army and serretidering the Frain.
21140141
.0601 q. . He did net4lizit,thlk—iinj hi
ewe ' , wallas& Poet

•••
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' ‘•:•:. .715 i 411/Vr ...
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IMPERIAL P..IRLLIMENT.• • ups 'Oslo. at We Caatatittes &at a suat sat ex.
r AID TO PO rur u6A L. - • „ • •, ors.
atom be mated to kis mai... to le ~_
__ ere:
_....... The House haring resolved itself into ardotnmittig we pa, ,a body a porturesTWoops, and touagiv: fou
HOUSE OF LORDS, lklsuen 15. .1
The Bishop of Meath took the Oathi'and his seat. of Supply, aid and netistanee to the Government of Portapl 1
The further proceeding In the Roxburgh P.rerage, was fix"d die
rr to-morrow i ant in the &milord and Kingsland reerAgts fur Lord C.V3TrYttEAGIT roan for the purpose of :go thertiglreq the contest ill watch We are engaged say appear tem
Pt-FREEMAN'I'LE observed, that nothing kW the
Vedriewlay. rwl a ifottwled r theiiku.iige Pt
obilie
privsste Billy were hron
The ..1 twiny 1411, snme local and
mt. James Oraham, an sv
tee Lord
fsourf_ftethiatent
p from the Commons by Mr. soau,
WirhinichtilfhaCad- liont:
her Members, and read a fug time. 1 I n
.0 Ftl,lat lust..l/lefsaid, Mitt
S'FATE OF TIM' NATION. 4, . ' tlii.g of wi e Iliregnsed aA to,tur Allies
•‘' , ry itairuceritibme roovbol
Btu
Earl GnosvENolt annffimeed him intenlinn of bringing for- Tell ; must be so Ira!' in 'the minds of all who' been conceded duriisthe last sessioni and he ob- u,
Ard, ere long, a motion on the State of the Nutton, and whic . ........ .. 4 , ...ma .• ••. • • • ifirialigaiyfea. on the ground Cat the sum furnished, -el
.instesid..Hof being directeil,,a4Wils originally intended, f 00:
~, thosght. was ea led form consequence of the distracted state .
rthe Councils of -Government. lie did uot Inter.d, however, tam the Committee by any( lengttened ISttlillill4sr ,t 0
.__. .....:1 arra, the. ti he IVA. of the nuestion re- 1—.1.... I• a - —.l_—• ai... :—.1:...:..... ..,,,,nentliner of Met generally to support the war in the Peninsula, had i P
- - -- - - _ -_, her

--,,.. I.IF •••
Ve rrectiJU Ur Gkbe iloutan in Inland for the last 'ear.— by means of the rant ed •by Cow- :=7. ragarlY• ue luki 'um -r'''"i4 ' . found 04,
t Itifi'll4llelt Obe ' _ iiii , „to
lotpli to England as well 10 Portugal : Ordered.
' mittee. [agar, hette !I It iboulci not be folioed**
ri .10 Loan Bill, sad Members' Oath; Bill were read a second ~
ma
t: besl:4ol
,b;:‘4lte.y w °kat:di, bei
I, aftrinmcatie•mshigew.
time, and it wan ordered that they be committed to-morrow; itKewl.ne, that the due applicatiqtu of liTjav
he wished thitegrr* to maintain 1..
that.i.t. . 'llikt-
Tbe !lever-Awl Bill we..t through a Committee on Use Motion been-secdred by *dab officers •arfiht i bliotaiddlalltliritZ. to an expendittloStribkik lire,could :
• .
of NI I. BANKES. Tile Report wan ordered tta be received to- a ttirce6Portogal, but to mainiaiii it more econe7
'' " "' - 'tit!
ont reiliveat,Latm4l4ey..,ll7l64"ce
thority of a culufktp---*4ltop,ILL #l,lo,coksfikAppointokfor orrow. of corporal punishment id
Toe Hoagie went into a C .voniwee on the Legal Giays Bill, purpose. In
oo N., itch retatiog to the Piloward Fie erv, and uu the Arta re- ,reasonabie. 'tempi voceilitri tit, lion of u .•• • -
itnnthanirsrioN! !Cilia/m.41 moo, squally Inpclii 11 to 11110 It` I biesnore confined scale,
. • oj
wpm` It, t sailors-who were impressed.
ettigo It lini-ler.lefebalre Wt°tadbe "eform.aPttgeldcofrrpelilleti°Agtilolg'bubrtvcßeiWis•:
tatit.g to Glans% The it eporte inert se%elilly ordered., be re. gOktaktirh .1411) 1.: moora..l. aim gi,r.4"410"P ••"''' ...mratirmityr y laid, in bringing French ~n-utted
utted 10-nierrow. ' 1'
nigi. .ti 1 3
Rey oi till) 1441(4.0A I,G .4, sat f til,
tiaarfirrfilgtoriv sgntger . -"fr.hy Gal6l '
x,
Aix .kit k.lWilt) NI BY broadatgp the Report on the Infant bear, and his lioidship had the satisfaction Wag* al.s- . , ' .
So , ton' Bill.—lt wan ordered ithadolhe 1140 be read 4 tl,lird tune : thaf such bid lineti,4liiiiiWltn—AFttrins -a- i 6 001 .'
" 11011« lir,..'aj'it'''.aa —an. f 11"fleotteZCitalr.ttoil;toithbirloirelag* I: •
.to sorrow.. • • . •
In i rotornittry on the Laws-64/61i ti'lhe Intercourse/ be- xe;•nment of ;timbtloollltry ,allistaash glie 1416 fe'' '--$ , ~ ...., .76
' '._l ~ f‘' Mr. 11101t11477IfSflentepittin,t4, arc pr's
e
tweenidellnaintand St. Doi. Ingo, Mr. LOSE.pro ilsed a Rep- of the 0604 tojAcicilltriere, ,„ s -le' 8 iSib '. , . '
• . , Zi: Ilse -identity -of -r oighowtac-rtpr ,
~,
It, ties, p.O.oinittog any intereourne between tite,fOrmer and ter_ . . , . got 4,6l'reieltic.lt °dicer* had bor.
tam parte of the 14.ter. The Itort ht-inctirought op, a Bill ; to g 4111 6111.?illtlit. tkilti'ea a .
al' '
' ' as WIT won. .He 1ia111614441116 *Oa fat loribe
I • .ca. Iwo •„+toto; '164 I,‘ 4454141441, os,
'lt .e. ordered to he brought-ha-accordingly. Zlketit treigo344ll: ' °lr ' . ~,t lota it
.. net
1, , ttnnonittee on the Trade with the Island' of 4,04 Vintiggat,,ll.4lt. tau. •••
Bermuda,
00/ Pdr. .0t41,. proposed a Reenfation, allowing tire prodore of tits . -
_i_ •
_,• • fkiek'•• ,4
vrirr.a.. to, $4
Vits. I s r'
I
Vett lied I d hl.aUd4 to be imported into Ileratioda in British I of. the wad Wilfl2 . t A tient than at .•
ships, Auld exported lo title* dribeVufted States. It ob.° per. 1 aav Aormscipor ms .
milted Ittldirrlyrkr. to br PlVOotted from Berretta to any' of ''' ' -.Aficilhitillb OD' aillostrolktothe the
• •w. • . s, I, avow, vc,„,4„...q4„e ..Rep„rt 1,,i, .aar ; nor did the hopes of the c ' ' ''''
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