The Statesman.
London, England, 1822-06-22 00:00:00

Pretest's*. he shooid prop.** that iesie•d of readisir
this Bill a weal time to-night, it be read this day three
=oaths.

~~

Lord COLCHESTER begged lease to assure their
Lordships with the most perfect sincerity, that theta
was no seas living more disposed than be was to grant
all that it was possible to grant to the Roman Catholics
without eadaagenng the safety of the Constitution at
the State. But be could not concur in a measure which
delivered both keys of Parliament to the Catholics—a
aseleare which it must be seen, however skilfully framed.
would oily obtain a limited concession, in order that
that conceseson should afterwards be brought to act In
favour of ethers more general and unlimited. It was
said that the law which excluded Catholic Peers from
Parliament was originally founded on grostodless alarm;
hat if that was the case it bad since stood en the basis
of mead policy'. The system itself was antecedent to
that saw. It had commenced under Queen Elizabeth 1
with the Corporation and Test Acts. The House of
Camelia had thee excluded its owe Members. The
Act of Charles 11. bad followed, then the Bill of Rights,
sad by the Act of Union with ScoMed, by which it
was settled that no others bat Protestant Peers should
shies that Hosea at the distance of three reigns Par-
liameat bad confirmed the inclesim of the Catholics.
Fresh conirmatioe had *natal at the Mania of the
Haim of Hanover, and tie Act of George 11. had re-
rived and sanctioned ail that had been previously enact-
ed ea the subject. The Noble Duke, however, saw no
grounds for coatieuleg those laws; he proposed to ra
vise and repeal them. and recommended the present
Bill as the first step towards so desirable a comer!
maims. If their Lenhhips examined its salads,
step by step, they would see the fall bearing of the
masers. He had always been of opinion, that little
shall be yielded to iseportanity. aid nothing to me
nue; bet that every thing that cost safely be doors
amid be demist She the Legislature a Its own views;
and that beeisor isle se, it sheald them mike its nal
•
stand. He theighttiat Parliament sh fart*.
earner of dilleisesests and boomers to Whelk
as to Protailitat Diameters. He therefore rejoined ANS
he saw Callhislies called upon to perform high Alm ki.
wards RolWay_ at the late Coronado*, sod at the bye
of honier-orred by his Majesty to &Catholic t
assn to lorlasol. The arm and navy were alreadyooppeens
to them, end he saw no objection to throw open all abeel
retie to fortune said distinction. aid to equalize all Ca:
thane is every part of the United Empire. He should
be glad to see theremealve all marks of Royal favour'
reserving only them which belong to the Supreme Go.
versant of the Rahn. Of religiose toleration too
mach said sot be granted : he would wish to see more
complete protection emended to their places of worship,
and especially that Catholics should be relieved from the.
pastal eternity of celebrating their marriages in oar
churches, where tents were professed contrary to their
owe. At eke same time be woald allow oleo processions
in our streets, no monastic establishments, so Jesuits
sealing Missionaries throtigh the lead, and he would add
that the College of Jesuits at Stosyhurst called for the i
Investigatioa of Parliament. As to the Catholic Clergy
it mould be maim aid needless to deny their existence
as a body. He therefore thought that his Majesty had
been well advised. when in Ireland, to receive the ad-
draseesof theCatbolic Bishops audClergy,as belied dem
those of other dissenters. Bet the recogaitioa of *sit.
Clergy required new laws to be made. Let these be pro.
perly framed, aid we should have no studios edocneed
at Rome. so Vicars Apostolic, the mere inanimate
of the Papal Coert. bat an EPisoopal Clergy, lade-,
salt:dshiz
pendent of foreign influence aid *My to the
Crown. They have stroll proofs a their
table, that restrictions trading to frame that effect,
regulating the communications o the Oahe& clergy
with the See of Rome existed in all amnia bet oar
owe. For this purpose their Lordships wield be fader
the necessity of re-casting the 13th of Eliesbeth. • Let
the Catholics bold sobs of the Aces connected with the
excise of the Supreme Authority, none is the Supreme
Courts of Justice, no seat in the Royal Cassette, mom
in. either House of Parliament. Our Protestant Rata
blisbeasat most be maintained. or else attempts would
soon be made to render it Catholic. For let us mot be
deceived. The principles of the Catholics were in direct
hostility to the -Protestant China aid Goveremeat, aid
Le believed this because be believed in the sincerity with
which they professed their religion. The Noble Earl
then quoted the °pistons of the Catholic Church as ex-
pressed in Bessuet's great work, and contended that the
same doctrines Lad been renewed is oar days. Their
Lordships were told to take example by other States
when a more liberal policy had been adopted towards
the Catholics, and to be coevinced that their admission
into the councils of the State would be attended with no
danger. Bet so little were the views of the Catholic
timed' altered, that the Pope had lately restored the
Order of the Jesuits which had boa proscribed in all
countries. and that protection had been refined to the
tombs of Protestants within the walls of Rome, although
it bad been demanded by Protestants of all miee'ries ra
siding in that city. supported by the interference of
their ambassadors, and even by the request of the pre-
sumptive heir to a Protestant throne. If it were said
that the Catholic Governments of other Castries treat-
ed Protestants with less of mistrust than we did Catho-
lics, it mast be recollected that the mature of those Go-
vernorate, and their institution, made the religion of
the persons whom they employed a matter of iodise-
enc.—Their case was not parallel to oar owl; far this
country was the only on in which the peptise chareelise
of the anstitetia could carry as individual to the &-
realms of affairs mad the commits of his Sovereign. He
must leek tomorrow as well as to the present day. The
paucity of the Catholics was so security against their
itterease. The Noble Lord thee reiterated his wish that
the interests of Catholic families should be casaba in
every practicable way, bat believing that their introdea
tioa into both Houses of Puliameat would only trod ao,
revive political hostilities, and beteg desirous that the
character of our cstablisbroset should sot cease to be

Lord ERSKINE rose to support the Bill. His Noble
Friend said that be was not satisfied with the immuni-
ties which the Catholics enjoyed, mid that he was will.
lag to enter ea a progressive system 'to Increase them,
why sot then begin with letting Catholic Peers bare
their own? He had admitted that their eselusios
formed no part of the original constitutiem of the coun-
try, and sutwithatasdieg the law which operated on the
Comm..., they had continued to sit I. Parliament till
the 13th of Charles H. or the supposed ezisteece of a
Popish plot. Was there any sate who believed there
*es say troth is the charges brought against Catholic
Peers es that occasion? They had mot bees 'sundaed
by the Commies, het rested only es the revelations
off Titus Oates.. man who was abroad at the time when
the pretended plot was to be eseested. Did Sevjeant
Maynard, the principal manager for the House of Com-
mons. in the impeachment of Lord Stafford, venture to
sty that the charges bad soy other foundation than the
revelations of Titus Oates? No ; he especially said
that they rested ea the testintoey of oily ene man,
.tes. He represented the exposure as the act of God,
not that of sae, is iadeciag Oates to make the dia.
orrery. and wished that sheiks should be returned to
God alone. It was not the act of Hod. but the insti.
;ratios of the Devil which had pruilicetl the revelations
of Oates. Less Sissies years afterwards tb.t impostor
bed bes@ brought to trial, sad convicted es the lances.
traduced testimony of feetp4even vitalises. who all
reeve that he had sever hors-seerer to Leaden than St.
!Men. He should moment to eider the present Bill to
be drespod if these intro ay we who could belie,..
that Thee Data hail am been guilty of priory. He

. .
admitted that great alarm bad prevailed at 'tie dolr,l
and that those who bad convicted Lord Sanford bad
acted hogoarahly, being led by the prejnolicos of the
times to consider him guilty. But now were we in
shelter cithumitabces? Were we in danger of a Popish
Successor in the person of. the Duke of York? What
had Parliament already done!' It bad repealed most of
the Statute' twiddle Catholics; It had said that it was
not necessary for them to take the Oath of Supremacy
to enable them to bold situations in the Army or the
Navy, to be Magistrates, Grand Jurors, Petty Jurors.
ofices much more important than the filling of seats in
Pailiament. The Act which forbid Catholic Peers to
come into the King's presence without incurring heavy
penalties, had been repealed in 1791, when it bad bees
enacted that Peers professing the Catholic Religion;
who should take the oath of aliegiance, should be to-
lieneffeest those penalties, and should be considered
"as good sad loyal subjects." On what principle was
the Oath of Supremacy retained after such a cower
sion ? No man bad rejoiced more than he had sear his
Majesty's visit to Ireland, hot the people of that cur
try would
showed that they could trust in the oaths which it had
administered to them. Thinking, as he did, that Ca-
tholic Peers could not be justly excluded from- sillier
in that House, he should vote for the snood reading of
the Bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that it. was how
more tbao twenty yearn ago that he had felt much pain
In withholding his assent front measures something like
those now contemplated, for he contended that what-
ever die object asked for might be, that in view was nei-
ther more nor less than unlimited concession. He would
tell their Lordships why he had felt pail. He bad
then. he honour of being noticed by that great mom now
gone (Ur. Pitt,) and if be differed from Oa eta this
important point, it weskit:stag no earthlt eissidendlos
could induce him to commit Se that 1110111111“ sties' as
hl thought it wrong. near who had proposed maces-
sem, in 1799, bad said that day Aide haassenissied
with seedrities, in order that litho Cathilleliflldrliere
quieted, the Protestant salad should intim geed.
He should bare been ashamed to refuse his let if be
had felt that the Protestant Ertablisbaseut . bi m-
etre. but what those securities were to be, hi never
been able to learn. Prom goon be bad heard what
they proposed; good God! thin. oho deaskidests of the
Calmat ;rho lived at the Iterdnides Ando! ever have
yds Each things as wiesrities babel -4o those
Z=ll by the laws enacted at fist peeled I One it
wlo must be a Protestant King, wisp, if he
steel to be a Protestant, that moment sees the allegi-
ance of his subjects dissolved. waste be seneandedaloy
Catholic Ministers. with the excepdon of the person
who filled the situation which he (tire Lewd Chasceltor)
so inadequately occupied, and who was to be a Prete,-
tent. Never had such nonagon and such trash bee. put 1
into an Act of Parliament as thit was. With rumen to'
the object of the present Bill, how did it happen that is
all the dissensions which had taken place on the Catho-
lic claim's since 1799. so propooldes bad ever ban made
to distlegnish the case of Cabello Peers from that of
the Catholics in general, until it bad been nestiesed by
a Noble Baron (Lord Grenville we baleen) for 'wham
he recession, so much respect that if be doubted the
soundness of his own opinion, it was Incase it differed
from that of the Noble Baron. It was not for Mean as
he was to use such !anionic but heirould say, as to
personal feelings towards the.t;atholics, with a great
Judge of former times, " I have found
n it
mite duty to es-
ter ter ions covenant with myself, thit aff teens,
may not press on judinind." He d that their
Lordships would mobile credit for the same 'oedemata.
As A theAuestion itself, he bad a right to avail hien
self of dicputhority of pr. Pitt, of thinfolde Bans,
and even of the Hon. Detainees whit meal the asiketof
the measure, to goateed that no one hat ithouto'ree.l
tared to propose a Bill to estincipan the WIS.'
out at the same time proposing seen iscsittlits. Irides
said that there. was no dallier in a coaceselos like the
present; but did their Lordships perceive that if they
granted it, they put it out of their power to deliberate
upon the general measure? When the BM had lint
come into his hands, be thought he bad bees misled by
some foolish fellow calling himself Printer to the Hoses
of Casinos', who bad wrongly ',titled it a Bill to re-
peal the Act of Charles 11. for he could not bellows that
the great Statesman to whom he should wish well in all
parts of the world. and the able Lawyers by whose he
bad been assisted, would have wished to repeal a BiU
anterior to all the Statutes since passed, aid still is
force against the Catholics. He had honk 'however,
that some words bad been inserted to embrace the Act
of King William and all other Acts, notwithstanding.
No Mail could look at our history prior to the Reforma-
tion, without being satisfied that at some periods of our
ancestors bad submitted in the most degradlea inhaler
to the See of Rome, and at others bad coed/seta them-
selves as became the subjects of an Independent State.
Till that event, the country had been plugged Is the
misery belonging to the circumstance of set knowing
exactly what was the Religios of the State. 1111 in ,e
Lordships should decide in favour of the present Bill
they would place back the country in theme's unsettled
situation till another Revolution should come to decide
whether the State should be Protestant or Catholic.—
King William having said to Sergeant rilaysard, who
`was the very old man " Why, you have outlived all the
legislators of the land," that distinguished 'hidividnal
replied, " Yes, and if you bad not come I should have
outlived all its laws too." If his Noble Priesfiiehind
him (the Duke of Portland) coed pentode their Lord-
ships to adopt his motion, as he looked healthy and
seemed likely to live long. he might also endive the
laws of the land.—(Laughter.)—The Noble aadtearned
Lord then referred to die debasing Acts passed in the
reign of (lege. Mary at the intercession of tie Pope's
legate. by which the supremacy of the Pope bad bees
restored la this cosatry. And here he would say, that
besieged with Chief Justice Hales. that a Cathoricsaad
a Protestant could net take the oath of-Mies:fence to:
getber la the same sense, if they did sot also like that
of supremacy, which bad been made to explain and pre-
vent the evasion of the former. Qsees Rlisabeth
bad repealed the Acts passed by gone May. and
fee a law period of years, the coestry had bees left
to that alternate and uaseuled legislation width was,
contrary to itsrepose aad happiness. The Itegeletion
at last had come. • Good God! Could it be 'skillet the
Cavendish's, the &whacks. the Somerset, were thee in
such a terrible fright os account of the long past revolve
limn of Titus Oates. whom it been customary to expose
in the pillory about three times a year, that terror in-
duced them to re-enact all the provisions of the 13th of
Charles 11. ? It was his opinion, that if Titus Oates had
been born, not forgetting what the Russells and
the Sydney' bad said as to popery, that similar coact-
meats would have been made. This opinion was strength-
ened by the measures taken by King William at the Re-
volution, by his signaler. of the Act of Settlement on
his death-bed, by the provisions of the Act of Weep 11.,
which re-enacted the former is the very same words,
and by what passed every year as to ludemnity Acts
It seemed to be forgotten that there lad been such a
reign as that ofJames 11. in our history. That King
had. declared to Parliament that nothing wee nearer his
heart than to take tare of the religion of the eiuntry.
and yet from hour to hour and day to dye. he west or,
violiting every law. and dispensing with that Act of
Charles 11. which he had promised to observe, and its
which he ought to have felt that lie was bound. H.
would tenet no one with powers or privilege's which th.
law did not allow. " Ile spake in the presence of hi.
Royal Iliglantls the Duke of York, than whom no may