The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-11-11 00:00:00

Mr. James Proctor,
Mr. Copeland,
Mr. D. Hodgson,
Mr. G. H. Lawrence,
Mr. Richd. Harbord,
Mr. John Kilshaw,
Mr. James Parker,
Mr. William Preston,
Mr. William Thornhill,
Mr. James Lawrence,
Mr. E. Rae,
Mr. Thos. Toulmin,
Mr. S. L. Trotman,
The committee thus cons
mously.

Mr. H. Hornby,
Mr. Thos. Blackburn,
Mr. A. Smith, jun.
Mr. J. C. Thompson,
Mr. Thomas Brassey,
Mr. John Sheppard,
Mr. J. Bramley-Moore,
Mr. J. B. Lloyd,
Mr. J. H. Turner,
Mr. John Platt,
Mr. C. Bushell,
Mr. R. Jones, jun.

anted was agreed to unani-

MARKETS' COMMITTEE.

The TOWN-CLERK described the powers and duties of this
committee.

Mr. JAMES LAWRENCE said that the Markets' Com-
mittee had hitherto consisted of nine members only, but it
was now thought desirable that it should consist of ten, and
therefore he should propose that number. He moved that
the following gentlemen do form the committee :
Mr. James Aspinall, Mr. Jos. Cooper,
Mr. John Kilshaw, Mr. Thomas Toulmin,
Mr. Eyre Evans, I Mr. Simon L. Trotman,
Mr. James Lawrence.
Mr. John Priestley,

Mr. Robert Rigby. Mr. Isaac Holmes:
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE said that no committee had, in the
result of their proceedings last year, disappointed him so
much as the Markets' Committee. The estimate of the re-
ceipts which the Finance Committee expected to receive from
the markets was £6,000 ; but the real returns last year had
been only £3,500. The average receipts of the last three
years bad been between £5,000 and £6,000. He did not
mean to say that the Markets' Committee had expended
money injudiciously : but he did observe that rents had been
lowered. He hoped that this diminution would not occur
again.

-Mr. JAMES LAWRENCE was rather surprised at the re-
marks of Mr. George Hall Lawrence, but he was not sorry
for them, as they rendered it necessary for him to give some
explanations with regard to the proceedings of the committee
in the last year. If Mr. G. H. Lawrence had made inquiries
from Mr. Neilson (in the treasurer's office) what had been
the expenditure last year upon account of the markets, he
would have found that during the time the late committee
had had the management of them the expenditure had been
really less than it ever was before. A considerable sum of
money had been left unpaid in the previous year, which ap-
peared in the accounts of the last year • and if that were de-
ducted the expenditure would be found much less last year
than before. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the rents there
was very little differecce. In one case there had been a re-
moval of six stalls in St. James's Market, from which a
rental of £4O had been obtained. This had taken place pre-
viously to the late committee coming into office. Last year
but one the whole of the rents were collected in advance,
but last year, though some had been collected before the
quarter had expired, many had not been, and there was an
item of £9O in the previous year's account which did not ap-
pear in that of the last year. There was also a falling off in
the petty collections of £4O, which was a considerable item,
which was owing to the depression of trade, and this, indeed,
was a circnmstanee which showed a depression of the times.
If Mr. Lawrence, or any other member of the council, would
inquire into the real expenditure of the committee last year,
he would find it not nearly so great as it appeared to be in
the published accounts.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE explained that, in the observations
he had made, he had been guided entirely by the published
accounts of the corporation.
Mr. JAMES LAWRENCE said that, after such a statement,
it was of course necessary for him to enter upon these expla-
nations, in order to set the committee in a proper position
before the public. (Hear.)
The Markets Committee was then appointed as above.
EDUCATION COMMITTEE.

Mr. MOLYNEUX moved that the Education Committee
consist of fifteen members, and that the following gentlemen
compose it :
Mr. Thos. Chilton,
Mr. R. S. Crooke,

Mr. Edmd. Molyneux,
Mr. John North,
Mr. Ebenezer Rae,
Mr. Thomas Sands,
Mr. F. Shand,
Mr. Thomas Shaw,
Mr. J. C. Thompson.

,
Mr. Joshua Edwards,
Mr. Richard Harbord,

Mr. David Hodgson,
Mr. Samuel Holme,
Mr. Rd. Houghton, sen.,

Mr. G. H. LiwrenCe
Mr. AMIN said he had not intended to make a single
observation about the appointment of the Committees ; but
in consequence of what be had just heard, he could not allow
that appointment to be made without offering some observa-
tions. He trusted he should be able to make an effectual
objection to the committee as proposed. He had listened to
the appointment of some committees in silence, although he
found in some instances. that the appointments were five to
one, in others six to one, and in another ten to one. To
this he bad not objected; but he must recall to recollection
of the council, the invariable rule adopted on former occa-
sions when his (the liberal) party had the majority : they
invariably placed upon each committee, a number of their
opponents corresponding with their minority in the council.
He did not wish at all to introduce into this, or
into any question connected with the business of the
corporation, party politics ; on the contrary, his object
was, to see the duties which devolved upon them, discharged
by men selected more for their fitness than for their
party spirit or their party zeal. He did not rise for the
purpose of opposing the motion, because he knew if he car-
ried his opposition to a vote, he should most probably be left
in a very small minority indeed. But in making this appeal
to the sense of propriety on the part of the council upon a
question involving certainly as strong party feeling, and as
strong religious feeling, as it was possible for men to have
who had a direct interest at stake—parents who had the
education of children at heart, and particularly of the poorer
classes of our fellow-townsmen—he did trust and hope,
now that he made this appeal, the council would not allow
the appointment of this committee without at all events
allowing one or two members to be upon it who had
been upon the same committee heretofore. There were now
in the council two men whose exertions on that committee
had been conspicuous, and whose services upon it had been
invaluable. He need not mention the names of Hugh Hornby
or Thomas Blackburn; but he thought if the council would
appoint those two individuals, or one of them, they would
shew that they had the desire for a settlement of the question
which had been expressed by some members. He might
himself be single in the idea, but he did hope that the day was
not far distant when this question would be settled satisfac-
torily to both
.parties. The council could not be guilty of
such self delusion as to hope, now that it was proposed for
the first time to make the committee to consist exclusively of
the majority, that the question could be settled in the com-
mittee ; and, therefore, be hoped that the council would avail
itself of the hint he had thrown out. Having two such men
in the committee might be the means of adopting many valu-
able suggestions which, on many occasions, might be the
means of saving not only the time but the temper of the coun-
cil. He would rather not move those two individuals for the
purpose of displacing any other two who had been named ;
but that he might be in order in rising, he would move, as an
amendment, that Mr. Thomas Blackburn and Mr. Hornby
be added to the Education Committee.

Mr. PLATT begged leave most respectfully to second the
motion ; and perhaps he might now be allowed to make a few
remarks, which he had intended to make at the commence-
ment of the proceedings. He did not regret that he was not
named upon the committee, although it was a committee in
the proceedings of which he had always taken a very lively
interest. His only regret was, that the present system ex-
cluded a great numbers of poor children, who had the mis-
fortune to be Roman Catholics, from the schools. He was
not an advocate for Roman Catholicism, but he was an ad-
vocate for the poor classes, and for the children belonging to
them who were wandering about the streets in a state of
destitution and misery, and who had a claim upon the corpo-
ration for shelter, and for a good and secular education. [A.
VOICE.—" No, rm."] No, no! He said, yes, yes, yes.
(Laughter.) Any one who went to the north and south ends
of the town, and saw the destitution and misery which pre-
vailed among the lower classes of Irish, would at once say he
(Mr. Platt) was right in asserting the principle that those
children ought to be admitted.
Mr. AIKIN suggested that members should confine them-
selves to the subject before them, which was not the general
question of education, but the appointment of the committee.
(Hear, hear.)
The MAYOR said, he was ju,st about to stop Mr. Platt on
that very ground.
Mr. BUSHELL quite agreed with Mr. Aikin, that in the
formation of the committees who were to conduct the affairs
of this vast estate, it was the duty of the council, in making
the appoi tments, to keep always as nearly as they could to
the propor 'ons of parties in the council. Unquestionably
it was right ey should take care to choose the best men for
the respective committees whom the town had selected to
occupy seats in that council. Now, there could be no
question as to the duties of the gentlemen who formed the
Finance Committee: the duties of the Finance Committee
were to do every thing that lay in their power, by their in-
dustry, their energy, and their ability, to husband the
resources of the town. (Hear.) There could, likewise, be
be no question with regard to the duties of the gentlemen
composing the Improvement Committee : their duties were
to improve, to embellish, and to forward the interests of the
town in those respects. Now, if this were the principle of
all committees, what were the duties of the gentlemen who
were to compose the Education Committee ? (Hear, hear,
hear.) Who were the Education Committee? They were
a selection made from the body of the council to carry
out the principles of the council—the principles decided
upon by the council upon that particular question. (Ilear,
hear, hear.) Now, could there be conceived any thing
more inconsistent than for the council to send into that
committee, openly for, that purpose, gentlemen who were
known to be directly opposed to the system which the council
required to be carried out?' (Hear, hear.) Surely, then, in
this case, the conservatives who formed the council had
shown their consistency. (Hear, hear.) Whatever his (Mr.
Bushell's) views might be with regard to the suggestion
which the Mayor bad thrown out this morning, his opinion
upon the general subject would not be changed. If there
was to be any change made in the system of the schools, it
should be made by the council, not by the committee; and
the council having changed the system, would then be in a
position to change the constitution of the committee. (Hear,
hear.) He—
The MAYOR was sorry to interrupt Mr. Bushell, but he
was deviating from the question now before the council.
The proper course was for those names to be put which had
been already read.
Mr. BUSHELL said that, as be understood, that was the
course now to be taken.

The MAYOR..—But it appeared to me that you were dis-
cussing the general question of the system of education.
Mr. BUSHELL bowed with great willingness to the deci-
sion of the Mayor; but he appealed to his friend Mr. Aikin
whether he thought he (Mr. Bushell) had deviated from the
question at issue, in stating the reasons why the committee
had been formed upon the principle of excluding all those
who were known to be directly opposed to the present sys-
tem of education. But if the Mayor thought he was out of
order he would bow to his decision. _ _

The MAYOR said the motion before the council by Mr.
Aikin was that the two gentlemen he had named should be
added to the committee.

Mr. COPELAND contended that Mr. Bushell was in order,
inasmuch as he was shewing why those gentlemen should not
be added to the committee. (Hear, hear.)
The MAYOR said the fact was that the motion was, itself,
irregular The proper course was to put the names of those
gentlemen who had been proposed in the first instance, and
when that had been done, Mr. Aikin's motion would be
regular.
The TOWN-CLERK said the course was for one member to
be nominated, and then it was in the power of any member
to nominate another member against that proposal ; and so
on till the list was completed.
Mr. EVANS contended that this was a question with re-
gard to the number of the committee, and it ought to take
precedence of the names.

Mr. HORNBY said it was quite true that the course just
stated by the Town-clerk had been followed upon former oc-
casions ; but at the same time he conceived that the council
ought not to be prevented from discussing the mode in
which the committee might be selected. That would be
limiting the powers of the council unnecessarily. It ap-
peared to him, therefore, that this discussion was perfectly
regular. Mr. Aikin had proposed that some gentlemen of
different opinions should be appointed members of the com-
mittee. and Mr. Bushell objected that snch an appointment
would be inconsistent. To him, it appeared on this account
that the disrussion was quite in order ; and that unless it
took place the council would not be in a position to judge of
taws.
The MAYOR said, he concluded that all he had to guard
against was that the council was not !nvolved in a discussion
upon the question of education. (Hear, hear.)