The Statesman.
London, England, 1812-06-09 00:00:00

~y

TUE IST VrESMAN.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

-~•~-
ROUSE OF LORDS, .IvNe R.

Mr. Preceval's l'antily Provision Bill, the Olio. Securities I,
Bill. and the Sugar Stewing Bill, were read a third time and
it Ote Order of the Day for going into a Committee on thpet
dent in Council titi day, was, on the polio* of earl
I fl I ft sT.Atiselyargecl , and the Contreittee appointed tositto-:
• c
morrow', at two o'clock.
%lc Coley, (min the CommisAnnees of Public Record% Wro-
tented a Report of their proreeding% with referenat to the r-
volutions of a t'utitiiiitter of the ilhopp*.of.Colinuilivf and ifs
Sr• the lagt twelve rears; and, WY,sTrrilket. fro* thr ceotoms.
itr.-,t•nted *a Account of the tualnenf &porta, to Americo ,for
via coding s:h Janoary, lBl7r which Were ordered to lie •
on the' table.
SAise e4oversation 'took place Ite:ween• the WI hf Bridgewa-
R-V. the Lulu( liirdwicke, Lord .Rctiesdale; and . Lord: Watv
reepectldgthe Rishlpitutti Cantd BUT; Which nisi
real a third time and passed. . . •
Earl t4TANHOPE, after referring to the present state of
public alai* moved to disebarie the. Order fp' the third read-
in: of the Nevin Ittelosure'Bill to-morrow. in order to postpone
still'Alelb4sy. The Motion was opposed bY Lord Vhitetuat
Rulkeley, andnegotivcd.
' •

• THE AD4MIT.R.ArtSV.'
The Earl of IA V ERFOQL.---.-" My Lords, be-
fore moving-an 'adjournment, I think it right to say. a
few words with reference to the questions put to me
by it-Noble Duke rebid** to the situation of the•Ad-
rnittistration on a farmer evening, and in consequence
bf which some discussion then took place. • I have
now to state to your Lordships, that his Royal
Highness the Prince Regent has been this day pleased
to appoint me First Commissioner of the Treasure,
and:that his Royal Highness his given me authority
for completing the other areitn'gemeuts of the Admini-
stration."
The Duke of NORFOLK.—" My Lords, the
Noble Earl has referred to some qtresitlons which I
thought it my duty to put on a former evening ; the
Noble Earl then referred to a well-known event, in
consequence of which he bnly•held his office till the
appointment of a successor, that event, as is well
known, was an Address voted in another place,
prayimbis Royal Highness the Prince Regent to
form a stronger and more efficir;nt Administration.
Weigle now informed, that the Noble Earl is ap-
pointid the Minister of his Royal'ffighness, although
I am not awate of the existence of any circumstance
to do away the event which the Noble Earl referred
to on a former evening, as a reason why he was then
olding.olfice only until the appointment of a sue-
&nor. The Noble Earl, however, being the Mi-
nister of the Government, I now wish to ask a
question with reference to our differences with the
United States of America, which by the last accounts

frees -thence, have reached a poitit of hostility that
spay yet, however, be averted by timely acts on the
fart of fhb Government. The lapse of a single day
may make a differende of the -greatest importance,
'for an irt done promptly on the part &this Govern-
'neat, Tay yet arrt all the consequences of hostility
en the part of America. I cannot undertake to as-
sign reasons at length for a motion, which I should
wish to make, for rescinding the Orders in Council,
and shall therefore confine myself to a question. I

with to know whether there is any intention on the
Cart of the Gtirerumeitt to 'rill:lad the Ordsis In
ouncil)" •
The Eadiif LIVER.POOL---41 M*Lords, with
reference to the 'trent *llO 'a I tsa tribe Robb§ Duite,
qamely, the Address voted in 'anothirpliese, prayipg •
for a stronger and more efficient ,Administration, I
think it my duty to tatel thit.limmediatety ob tot
'Address. ;being eoteil,. I humbly requested —of is
•Royal Highness the Prince ltegent, on the part of
my colleagues and myself, that le might not he any
obstacles in the way of tha propoied arrangement ;
and I trust your Lordships will do me the justice to

believe, that in the negoclations which have taken
'place, I have been no Obstacle whatever to the carry.
ing into effect the prayer of the Address. But, my
Lords, under the circumstances which have taken
pi act., I shnul►l have-shrunk from my duty to the
Prince, and from my duty to the country, if I had

POW declined to accept the appointment which his
loyal iii4hness has been pleased to confer upon me.
Wi.ll respect to what has been stated by the Noble
Duke regarding America, there has been undoubt-
edly same Ads passed by the Legislative Assemblies
of the united States tendifig- more than preceding
acts to a hostile character ; but the Noble Duke is

invistikenin giving credit to the reports which have

been in circulation of any acts of a decidedly lioStile
sature having been resorted to. As to the Orders in
-Connell, the subject is now, and has been for some
time, before your Lordships, involved in an enquiry,
-whichatt t •• present moment tends to a termination.
When the whole of the evidence is before the House,
it will be for your Lordships to determine what urea.
sures ought to be talon with regard to the Orders in
Council. lam not aware that it would be fitting to
say more upon the subject at present."
The Dukeof NORFOLK, in elk:titillation, said,
.that he did not mean to state that there was actual
• Oithe part of Americai but that hostility
;might be a.verted.by timely acts on the part of this
Government. •

The Earl of MOIRA:4—.4 My Lords, had I dot
been anticipated by the Noble East (Liverpool), 1
should have 'felt it my duty to state to year Lord-
. ships thelact ;which the 'Noble Earl has announced,
4g his being entrusted by his Royal Ilighne.aa the
Prinee•Regesti With the authority to form an Admi-;
siittration. • lity Lords, in the exercise of the *Oho-
rity 'for that purpose entrnstetl to me by big Royal
highness, I eserted'iny utmost cods ours to fulfil I
that mission_. 'Wire the object merely to Ml up sip-1
pointments with men of talents, thero could be no
difficulty, theta Wing ainpl)r sufficient talent
eountry for the supply of -oven of ability to tlseoffi- I
cos of the State; bat at a lambent like the present, I
felt that I shoild•nbt do my duty in theesecution of
the high trust reposed in me, If I did not use my at.,
most eisdrarours to conciliate the differences 'ofpoll-'
lic men, awl to form aw Alministration upon public
principles, which should at once possess the full and
entire confidence of the country. That I have failed
in these endeavours I most deeply lament. Deeply
Intimating it, however, as I do, there is still this con-
solation, that throughout the negotiation -which it
Las been my duty to carry on, I have met with the
-tamest frankness and candour on the part of public
;Hen on all sides to whom I applied, and I owe it
.particularly to the Noble Earl (Liverpool) and his
colleagues, to state, that they met my proposals with
the utmost frankness and candour, My Lords,
Vivre is still more this greater consolation, that it is
lOW testified to the public, that on the part of his

Royal Highness the Prince Regent, there was'itathe 1
proposition submitted by his authority to my /gable
Friends, no reservation whatever, and that it was nmde
with the most entire disposition to give every effect
to the wish expressed by the other branch of the I:e-
-gislature. That the endeavours made in obedience
.to that authority have failed, I must again most
itt
e eply laments The result hks been, thaetbe Nobte
rl7..(l.lverpool) has received authority from his
oyitikhness the Prindeßegeitto,form an Mani-
•
uistration, 'Which I hope may prove katisfactory to
the country. Under tha present circumstances .of
the country, and after what has happened, I shall.
feel it my duty to give my support to that Admiui-
*ration, so far as is consistent with those public
principles which I have so often avowed in this,
House," . • _ _ . __

The Earl of LIVERPOOL Moved that the House
do now adjourn.
The Marquis WELLESLEY...--" It may proba-
bly he expected of me, my Lords, that I should en-
ter into some explanation, respecting what took
place at the last, meeting of the House, with refer-
, enceto some expressions used by me on a preceding
'evening. My Lords, with respect to my not attend-
, ing my duty is this House at its last meeting, I trust
I may be permitted to observe, if any thing onn be
set off against the duty of attending this House, that
I really thought that my presence would be an oh-
' stacle to the arrangement, which I then hoped might
be made, and I was therefore absent. My Lords,
when I notified to this House, that I had resigned
the commission` entrusted to me by, his Relit 110-
ness the Prince Regent, I then stated, that Iliad
full authority from his Royal Highness to state to
' the Houle, if your Lordships should desire it, all
the circumstances connected with my conduct in that
negociation, and I again state,. that I have full an-
; thority, and that I am ready, if your Lordships • so
please, at this, Or any futurelime, to go over, pint
by point,
_every thing that relates to my conduct in
this negociation. My Lords, my object was
throughout this negociation, that three great princi-
ples should form the basis of the proposed arrange-
ment :..-First, that the laws affecting his Majesty's
Roman Catholic subjects should be taken into consi-
deration, with a view to a conciliatory adjustment.
Secondly, that the War in the Peninsula should 'be
carried on with adequate vigour. And thirdly, that
the Administration to be formed should not consist
of the talents, the opinions, or the strength of one
, party ; that the strength of one party should not be
the strength of the country ; that the opinions of a
party should not be the system of the country ; but
that, in the present complication of party and opi-
nions, the Administration should be formed from all
I parties of individuals agreeing in the two lirst princi•
pies I have mentioned, and coming to an arrange-
ment upon other matters. Now, my Lords, with
respect to an expression which I used on the
evening alluded to, to which, subsequently, much
reference was made, and which, it seems, was stated
by a Noble Friend of milie (though, as he mentioned,
without any authority from me) to have dropped
from me inadvertently. The expression to which I
allude w that of ' dreadful personal animosities.'
My Lords, in what I stated to the House, I humbly
'advised your Lordships not to call for that disclosure
which I was then ready to make, because it would
tend to irritate and inflame those dreadful personal
animosities which had already unhappily existed hi
the course of the negociation. My Lords, in using
Lthis expression I have no hesitation in stating, that I
used it advisedly, and that I applied this term animo-
I sities to the Noble Earl (Liverpool) and his col..
leagues, for it was from their conduct that the only
obstacles arose to the arrangement which I proposed
to make. My Lords, I know too well the usages
of Parliament to apply to any man an expression
which he disavows; hat I certainly applied it at the
time in the manner 'I have stated, under the impres-
sion that the only obstacles arose from the Noble
Lord and his colleagues, and that their conduct
could only be attributed to animosity towards me. I
do not charge this against them as a crime, or that
they intentionally threw obstacles in the way, but I
merely state the fact."
The Earl of lIARROWBY.—" My Lords, after
the charge made by the Noble Lord, in which I, as
one of the colleagues of my Noble Friend, of course
feel myself implicated, I consider it my ditty to call
upon the Noble Lord to bring proofs of his charge,
and I am ready to meet it. Is it fitting that such a
. charge should be insinuated, and the alleged proofs
of it postponed till another day ? Is it fitting that,
after a charge made against Members of this House
of intentionally throwing obstacles"—
The Marquis %VELLESLEY.—" Not inten-
tionally."
66 Well, then, my Lords, of throwing obstacles in
the way of making an arrangement to meet the da-
-1 culties of the country ? Is it fitting that such a charge
should be made witnout at once entering into the dis-
, cussion of it ? I call, therefore, upon the Noble
Lord to bring his proofs of the charge which he has
thus insinuated."
The Marquis WELLESLEY.—" My Lords, the
Noble Earl has assumed a high tone, to which I
tub only submit in Common politeness, but to which
Idoinot submit as a Member of this House. Has
the Noble Lord assumed this high' tone iu the expec-
tation thatl would not bring proofs of what I as-
idled, or in the suppositiou that I would insinuate
a &are Without grounds to support it ? I did not
seatelt as a crithe against my Noble Friend (Lord
Liverpool, for so I must call him, let what will
happen), and his colleagues, or that they intention-
I ally three, obstacles in the way ; I merely stated the
LW, and in -proof of the -fact I will read to your
Lordships the answer I received from the two Noble
Lords near me (Lords Grenville inid Grey), and the
answer received by a Right Honourable Friend of
mine from the 'Noble Lords on the other side, the
propositions being made to both at the same moment.
To the propositions I made to the Noble Lords rela-
tive to the forming an Administration upon the basis
of the two principles I before alluded to, namely,
the consideration of the lawsaffectiug, the Roman Ca-
tholics, with a view to a conciliatori, adjustment,
and the prosecution of the war in the Peninsula with
adequate rigour, I received the following answer :-
6 The Lords Grenville and Grey,' with a view to the
formatioo of an Administration upon the basis 'pro-
posed, desire it to be expressly understood, that they
are willing to meet the consideration of the props

sition with the complete abandonment of all personal
feeling and considerations.' The answer I received
from the other side was at follows:—' It is thought
unnecessary on the part of Lord Liverpool and his
colleagues, to enter into a discussion of the propo.
sitlons submitted to them, it being their determina.
lion not to form a part of any Administration under
Lord Wellesley.' New, my boris„ what opinion
could I form of this answer, bet tha% those who
dictlited it Were actuated by perstroal animosity'
against the? Far be it, however, troin met to attri.
buteta-any Members of this house .wiat : they dis-
claim: Thave already said, that I do not impute if
-CO dim ItSit !crime, or that they intentionally threw
1....
obstacles. I have merely staled the fact which caused
the inretsion upon my mind, and which drew from
me the-e-diresilon to which so many references has
been made.°

The Esql ef.IIARROWBY.—" My Lords, if I
asstunfetklone which might be considered unbecont-
I leg in this Mutter I have to apologise to your Lord-
t ships forio doing but when the Noble Lord threw
out so serious- a clutrge against those with whom I
I have the honour to act, and myself;o( euffering feel-
;
1 tugs of 'personal animosity to stand in the way of any
I arrangement which might be considered. beneficial to
the country, it became my duty to call upon the
Noble fiord to state the grounds upon Which he made
stkh a charge.
" My Lords, we do no plead guilty to any such
charge, and it is a decisive proof that we were actuated
; by no feelings of animosity to the Noble Lord, that on
1 tbeinuining of the day on which
.notice had been
given of the Address so often illuded to, which was
afterwards voted ,in another 'place, we offered to
form an Administrellonwith that Noble Lord, him-
! selfto imve the most distinguished plies 'kin that Ad-
' ministration which he himself should point out.—
But did , tics -eittestaitaticeds ihberrene between that
period amtthe
.perlod of the proposition- referred to
by the Nobli'Lerd ? Wei it ntithing that the cor-
e respondence between the Noble Lord and my Noble
Friend, shbuld have been published on Thursday in
the newspapers? And this too without the explana-
' tory letter of my Noble Friend, respecting which a
notice was given, that it would be published on the'
subsequent day ; although, had the explanatory let-
ter of my Noble Friend been, published with the
lOther correspondence, the decision in another place
might have been very different to what it unts.---
; Could we have any confidence in negoeiatinewitfi
I the Noble Lord, when it was thus discovoredthat
the public were to be made parties. to. the negnia-
tion, step by step; and it is not a little singular, that
the Noble Lord should thus have thought it right to
publish this correspondence, and not have thoug'lt it
equally proper to publish the correspondence it his
resent negociation with the Noble Lords on the other
side. But, my Lords, it was not merely this : did no
other circumstancelappen ? Was there not a statement
' published in the newspapers, in which the Noble Lord
accused his late Colleagues in the Cabinet, of in-
' capacity to originate any measures for the welfare of
the country ? Public men are so accustomed to those
kind of accusations, even from their own friends,
that they become callous to them, but the time and
the circumstances choien for the publication, were
calculited to ivound out feelings in a tenfold de- '
gree, to wound them through the memory of him
who had just then fallen by the hands of au assas-
sin, whom we considered as the life and soul of our
Cabinet, and whom we in the highest degree respect-
ed and esteemed. Was this a moment, my Lords,
for the publication of an attack upon the character
of that Right Honourable Gentleman, when he was
no longer in existence to answer it ?" Was it fittiog,
that when we had just returned from' the melancholy
duty of following. his hearse, that the publication of
such a statement should be thrust upon us ? It was
impossible, after the publication of such a statement,
that we could cordially unite with the Noble Lord
in any Administration. The Noble 'Lord, toot Iu
that statement, urges his dilferences.with us in the
Cabinet, of which differences we had previously no
-knowledge ; and it is not a little ,remarks.ble, that
we should first hear from the Noble Lord in this
published statement of differences in the Cabinet, of
which, whilst acting with him in the Cabinet, we had
no knowledge whatever. My Lords, in the result;
which has taken place, after the failure of the nego-
ciations, of which you have heard, no alternative re- I
mained. It would have been a gross dereliction of
our duty, under the circumstances that have recently
happened, to have refused to join in the formation
of an Administration in support of the just prero. I
gative of the Crown; .for had we done that, the Ad.
ministration of the Country must have been conceded I
to thoie whose opinions are decidedly hostile to thcise
; measures which have been sanctioned by the repeated
approbation of majorities of both Houses of Paella-
meat. We have
-therefore felt it our duty to ottey
the conimands the Prince Regent; if Parliament !
does not support'us it is their fault, we shall havethe
; satisfaction, of having done our duty."
The Marquis WELLESLEY.-44 It becomes ne-:;
cessary for me, my Lords, to enter into some expla-
nation,-in consequence of what has fallen from the;
Noble Earl. Does the Noble Earl mean to insinu-
j ate that I was a party to the publication of the state.
meat to which he alludes, with reference to the Right
Hon. Gentleman •late at the head of the Admini- ;
stratio'n ? and yet if he dues not mean to insinuate
'that, how does he make out that its publication ren-
dered itimpossihie for him and his colleagues to unite
with me in act Administration? My Lords,l do ex-
pressly deny being a party to that publication. The
.;
facts are simply these : when I tendered my resigna-
lion of the office I held to the Prince Regent, his
;Royal Highness was pleased to request me to coati-
'use to hold that office until the expiration of the re-
strictions upon the Regency. • I obeyed his Royal;
Highness's commands ; but havingfound that, previous 1'
'to the expiration of the restrictions, the Right Hon.
Gentleman alluded to had recommended two or
Vireo times to the Prince Regent my immediate su-
perteslion, I did, in a conversation with the Noble
Lord *on the WoOlsack, than whom I am satisfied ;
there does not exist a more honourable man in
the country (and I call upon him to contradict
me if lam incorrect), I did express to that Noble
Lord, that it VW- unmannerly in the person al-
luded to to go• tti the Prince Regent two or three
times to recommend my Immediate supercession. As
to the statement Aiello there are expressions In
it which it must bimanltiat are not mice; the fact


soo"ni.snheowolwifieclrlivelltilehdrryin:pa:oitlu;
is, that manyrcitooinifilme,yresafxrtiii)eoarensd:si
with respect to the causes of my resignation, took,
t
dtnhooes:l ree ca n iu Writing,
but which I would not substantially re-
tract. Many applications were made to my friends
for the publication of the statement, but it was uni-
formly refused, and so far from my being a party of
the publication, I was horror-struck at seeing it pul..
lished at the time at which it was made public, and I
would have given any sum of money to have recalled
the publication. How then, does the Noble Earl
(make out that I was a party to the publication
With respect to the Right Honourable Gentleman
alluded to, I believe no man to have excelled him in
public and private virtues, in acuteness of intellect,
or mildness of temper ; but however I may respcct
or esteem the virtues of an individual, it does not
follow that I am to consider him a lit man to be
placed at the head of a Government. I highly respect
and esteem my Noble Friend (Lord Liverpool), fnr so
I must still call him, but it does not follow from
that that I am bound to consider him as a lit
man to be-placed it the head of the Government.—
' An intimate knowledge of the virtues of the Right
llon. Gentleman before alluded to, could only be
gained by a long acquaintance. I had little personal
acquaintance with him, but so far as I could judge,
1 highly respected his virtues; and I consider• (ha
act which deprived him of existence as a stain upon
humanity. The purity of his character has thrown
the lustre of martyrdom around his memory; but
with all that respect for his virtues and the excel.
lencies of his character, I feel it my duty to say, that
I did not consider him as a fit man to lead the coon.
Us of this great empire. I will now proceed to
another part of the Noble Earl's speech, in which he
asserted that I had never expressed any difference of
opinion from the rest of the Cabinet. It is true that

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cor-
rect my error.--[Laughter.]—'There yet remains
another charge to be repelled,
lion of the correspondence which passed during the
negociation which I was empowered to conduct. I
may, perhaps, have been blameable in allowing it, but
if I hare erred, I ha;ie ...red from habit for it is
a very ordinary practice to satisfy fhe public by au-
thentic information, upon a subject to which ,i,ey
look with the most painful anxiety, I am net a •v,sre,
that in the letters which were written on eiti... vie,
there was One word that ought to he coocealv,l.
protest most solemnly, that I thought I was acliii;
a way best calculated to secure the characters of tile
Noble Lord and myself. But further I am :teethed,
'of not publishing on the same day, the. exp!iiiatory
letter transmitted to me by the Noble Earl (Liver-
pool), and which• he, for good reasons no doubt,
begged that I would not answer. I was desired,
howeier, to annex it to the, correspondence, and
was s it possible for me to imagine, that it was
not to share the general fate? There might he some
'cause of complaint, if I had not published it at all,
'but it wet not published on the same day. I own
most honestly, that I really thought the explanation
wholly extraneous ; as a friend of mine expressed it
in anotfier. place, I believed it to be entirely of a
controversial nature, and if it did not accompany the
.other documents, I was of opinion that it ought
never to have 'appeared at all. It has been main-
tained, however, that the want of a knowledge of
1 thisletter, had occasioned a very disagreeable vote in
It
another place. This however, is by no means the
feet' for the friends of the Noble Earl took care to
remedy the evil, by printing it several hours before the
discussion which ended in tnis disagreeable vote, com-
menced; it was printed too without any reply to it,
• and here I think I have a right to charge the Noble
I-
Earl (Liverpool) with something like unfairness—
illear, hear !3---I protest to God, that so far from
.thinking that I had acted unkindly, I imagined, that
by, .forbearing to publish his explanatory epistle I
klid him a favour, and I unfeignedly believe that his
7frietid who caused its promulgation, did the Noble
Earl a most essential injury. The complaint is to be
!made not against me. who withheld it, but against
; LP) who published it.l—[llear, hear!]—These, how-
,,erer, my Lords, are quite trivial considerations, and
;lam ashamed that the Noble Earl (Ilarrowby) felt
himself reduced to the necessity of going info the
•detail of such insignificant points. The House will
judge upon the whole case, whether estry circom-
i stance stated and relied upon by the other side, does
not, in the strongest manner, confirm the positious
whiob alone entitled me to address your Lordships,
that obstacles had been opposed.by the Noble Earl
to the establishment of an Administration, and that
these obstacles had originated in feelings of a person-
al nature."—[Hear, hear!]
Thb Earl of HARROWIIY.---" I confess that the
publication first alluded to by the Noble Marquis re-
Igirding the war in the Peninsula, did. leave a benq
,weight upon my mind, from which lam happy that
re
ibtywhei:eesxoplana extremelyt ii am
unpleasantn ciw rel iteov ed b
his;
feelingsut if,
that
i t
should go forth into the country, I should have ima-
gined that I should have seen in the paper immedi-
: ateli succeeding a complete disavowal that it had
been printed under the authority and with the ap-
probation of the Noble Marquis."
Marquis WELLESLEY.—" I beg to declare most
positively and sOlemnly, that I knew nothing of the
publication until it was shewn me by a friend lo the
Newspaper in which it was contained."
Earl GREY.—" In the greater• portion of thig
interesting discussion having no concern, I should
noehaeeinterfered but for one circumstance. The