The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-02-27 00:00:00

•

'which ho found himself. The noble earl had been under the
necessity of resigning when the noble lord, then Chancellor of
the Excheqner, was rased to that house. The. noble viscount,
too, had declared that he cmisideaed the noble lord's assistance
essentia►ly necessary to him. lint when his Majesty was left
by the noble earl, and when Lord Althorp was removed from
the other house, his Majesty, forsooth, was not to be permitted
to consider whether his position was not materially altered by
these events, and whether it would not be expedient for him to
make some other arrangements for the carrying on of nis ser-
vice (Hear, hear.) Everybody, indeed, but his Majesty was
to be allowed to consider the alterations which had taken place
by the loss of Lord Althorp in the House of Commons! Their
lordships, however, he was convinced, would not acquiesce in
this exclusion. (Hear, hear.) They would see and declare that
the Sovereign was fully entitled to ►..ke into consideration his
own peculiar position, and the state of public affairs, and to de-
liberate whether• it would be advisable for him to make other
arrangements with respect to the existing administration, or if
not, whether it would not be better for him to form a new go-
vernment altogether. (Hear, hear.) Under the circumstances
in which his Majesty was placed, he had thought proper to send
to him, (the Duke of Wellington,) and he was happy to find
that all those histories and stories which were propagated re,
specting court intrigues— •
Lord MELBOURNE.—Not by me.
- -

The Duke of WaoutecToN.-1 am quite certain of it. But
all those idle stories' stories were now entirely laid aside. It
was new fully admitted on all hands that dime never was any
such thing. For his own part, he had had no communication
of any description with the court for two—ay, he might say for
three months previous to the communication from his Majesty.
When his Majesty sent for him, he might have accepted the
offer his Majesty was graciously pleased toake him. He
might have come down to their lordships in a higher situation,
(hear, hear,) but he did not recommend that course to his ma-
jesty which would have been accessory to the gratification of
his own ambition. (Cheers. He did not act as one who had a
personal object to serve. (Cheers.) He recommended to his
majesty that line of proceeding which he conceived would be
must advisable for his service, "and that was that he should send
for the right hon. gentleman then in the other house of Parlia-
ment as the individual in the present times most fit and capa-
ble of discharging the duties of the King's first minister.
(Cheers.) That right hon. gentleman was theu in another
part of the world, at a considerable distance from this ; and it
appeared advisable to his 'majesty, and to him (the dike,) to
take possession of the government for Sir Robert Peel; and ab-
solutely necessary, at the same lime, that whoever might carry
on the government until his arrival, should exercise no patron-
age, or take no step whatever which should in the least tend to
diminish the full and free authority of the right hun. gentleman
when he might come to act. (Cheers.) His advice to his ma-
jestyaccordingly had been to put him provisionally at the head
of affairs as Secretary for the Home Department and First
Lord of the Treasury. (Hear, hear.) But the noble viscount
(Melbourne) accused him of holding the seals of the three prin-
cipal secretaryship!! ,qf state at the same time. But this, al-
though gravely til? was 'not a very serious charge after all.
Having been appointed to' any one Of the three offices, a man
was competent to held the-seals of the other two, in the absence
of those to whom they had been .confided. It was true, then,
that he had, as Secretary for the Home Department, held the !'
seals of the three secretaryship; but he had exercised no more
authority than if he had been one of the three principal secre-
taries,
and his colleagues were absent. (Hear, hear.)- And
was there, he would ask, no precedent for such a proceeding ?
Why, Mr. Canning, while he was yet Secretary fur the Foreign
Department, was, on the 12th of April, appointed First
Lord of the Treasury, and he did not resign the seals of the
foreign department until the 30th of the same month; conse-
quently, during the whole of the intervening time he was both
Secretary for 14i-reign Affairs and First Lorry of the Treasury.
Next, the noble viscount (Melbourne) blamed him highly for
having attended his majesty, and facilitated his arrangements
for the formation of a new administration ; and yet, strange to
tell,- the uohle viscount himself it was, if he (the duke) were
not mistaken, that brought to town the order in consequence of
which the event had oecuried. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) If
there were any thing criminal in his (the duke's) attending his
sovereign, and assisting him in carrying into execution the plan
for the formation of a new administration, what should he said
of that minister who brought a letter to town the object of
which was to secure that attendance and co-operation, he (Lord
Melbourne) well knowing at the time what were the contents of
that letter? (Cheers and laughter.) Was the noble viscount,
I hen, the man to bring him forward as a criminal for having at-
tended to the wishes of his sovereign, when he himself was the
bearer of those commands which had led him (the duke) into
the presence of his majesty, and to the performance of those
services which he (Lord Melbourne) now repudiated? (Cheers
and laughter.) If he were disposed so to argue, he 'night con-
tend that the fact of the noble viscount being the bearer of this
letter showed the animus with which he (Lord Melbourne) had
waited upon his majesty, and the animas of the transactions be-
tween them, and also the animus of the communications be-
tween himself (the duke) and his majesty. The next charge
to which he had to advert was, that they fad dissolved the late
parliament. With respect to this, it was true that whatever
ministry advised the dissolution of a parliament was liable to be
called on for some reason which might have induced them to do
so ; but he had seldom heard of such a course of proceeding as
that ministers should be called upon on the first day of the as-
sembling of parliament, and told "(live me some reason why
you thought ht to dissolve; and justify your dissolution of par-
liament, by showing the effort you have made has been a suc-
cessful one." (Hear, hear.) But the noble viscount, after
heaping his censure upon them for dissolving, added, that in all
cases where parliament was dissolved it was success which jus-
tified the measure. If, then, they had made an experiment
which was to depend upon so peremptory a criterion, surely he
ought at least to allow them a short time to wait and see fairly
what had been the result. (Cheers.) The noble lord and his
friends had dismissed in June a parliament which was chosen in
November. Their experiment he acknowledged was pet fectly
successful. (Cheers.) At all events, it would be but fair to
give them some little time for the prescribell justification, and
not to assail them on the first day of the session. (Cheers.) And
now, as to this success, he wanted to know, after all, how great
was the measure of success which the late ministry enjoyed in
the late pat liament, when it . appeared to rest solely and exclu-
sively on the shoulders of a single individual, from which, too,
there was no mantle hi fall for a successor? He was not aware
that there were any other topics on which it was necessary for
him to speak. He had ab4ady, he' should think, said enough
to show there was no `reason•why their lordships should see it
expedient to adopt. the amendment "of the noble viscount.
(Cheers.) He ought, perhaps, to say, as to the municipal cor-
porations, that it was not their intention in any way to thwart
the commissioners, and that, feeling this, they were unwilling
to pledge themselves to any peculiar system of legislation with-
out knowing what the report was; and in this feeling their lord-
ships ought to be the more disposed to participate, when his
majesty informed them that the report would be laid before them
in a short time.

Lord 13itouGnatif contended that the Duke of Wellington
was responsible for the dissolution of the late administration.
The reason was simply this—the King could do no wrong; he
must, however, have some adviser, and therefore some respon-
sible adviser. Now, the noble duke stood in this position; be
waspeculiarly, he was emphatically responsible for the change
of his Majesty's advisers; for who could he responsible but be
who came into the space which the change had made vacant?
If the King thought proper to take the seals from one man to
give them to another,lhe man who took the seals became re-
sponsible for the change ;. he was responsible in point of fact as
well as in point of law. The noble and learned lord then spoke
at great length on the s;;,:eCli then before the house, and cited
passages from it .to prpve that the country had been well go-
verned by the late administration. When his lordship alluded
to the election of the Speaker, the Duke of Wellington hitt-
mated that that vote was not of so much importance as had been
supposed. Then, Lord 8.. replied, the noble duke would like
to -have an amendment upon the address carried by a majority
which would be four times as good. In conclusion Lord V.
said, of one thing he was morally certain, that if any desperate
attempt should be made to overawe the people of this country
by mere force and power,. or to wear them out by repeated ap-
peals to their sense, as it was called, but which won id become
appeals of a very different nature it persisted in—(hear, hear)
—if any attempt should be made to set at naught the sense of '
the country, after the appeal had been made of a highly unne-
cessary, unconstitutional—aye, the noble and learned loid would
say, of an impeachable kind (hear, hear), in 'the circum-
stances in which that appeal was made; and instead of carrying
on the government as the wisest and the ablest, and the most
honest—aye, and the most firm-minded of former statesmen
were always contented to carry it on—he meant in deference to
the sense of the people, and in compliance with that sense, as
declared legally, regularly, and constitutionally by their repre-
sentatives in parliament assembled; then woe be unto them,
whomsoever they might be, who should attempt to govern
against and in spite of the House of Commons, and to set up
the House of Lords as governing the nation, for it would come,
to that (hear, bear), thereby to present to the people of Eng-
land the government of au aristocracy, which it then would
purely be, and which of all forms of government that ever
cursed mankind, as uniformly admitted, would be the one most
to be execrated; without being the most respectable. The noble
and learned lord felt bound, to state his apprehensions as to this.
He believed the intention to he that of insisting upon neglect-
ing, if nut of running counter to the sense of the people.--
Things were regarded .as frivolous, indications were act at
naught, merely because they came from the other house of par-
liament. They were told that majorities in the House of Lords
were to be considered as well as majorities in the House of
Commons; and the want of confidence of one of the houses,
the distrust of the Hotrie of Commons, the sense of the dissolu-
tion of.the noose of Aommons, were all to be set aside, utterly
disregarded, hecaitaift the lords -there-vets overwt:olniitig„
an overpowering majority in favour of his Majesty's proceed-
ing. That was not a wise decision—not a judicious course. If
anything could .make the House of Lords more bated than
another, it would be, which he hoped and trusted for the sake
of the country would not take place, that of retreating back on
the sense of the Honse, of Lords, and despising the approbation
of the House of Commons, (Cheers.)

The Loan CHANC,EL toit said that he rose, not for the purpose
of answering all the details which the noble and learned lord
had entered into, and still less of taking notice of the threats
which he. had so plentifully dealt. in. (Hear, hear.) But, as
he had made a charge against him (the Lord Chancellor) which
was utterly without foundation, he rose for the purpose of meet-
ing that charge, and for the purpose of defying the noble and
learned lord to a proof of his statement. He (the Lord Chan-
cellor) asserted most positively that the noble and learned lord
had maligned him in the statement he had made. (Cheers.)
It was true that he Lad on a former occasion opposed the Hu-
man Catholic bill; it was true that at a subsequent period he
supported that, measure to the utmost of his power, The
grounds upon which he had adopted those different courses he
had upon former occasions stated: they were matters e-if his-
tory, and he would not now enter into them. But the noble lord
(continued the Lord Chancellor) his dared to say, that I pur-
sued the course I took for the purpose of retaining my posses-
sion of office. I deny peremptorily the statement of the noble
and learned lord. (treat cheering.) I say, if I may make use
of the expression, he has uttered an untruth in so expressing
himself. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear," " Order, order," and
much confusion.) My colleagnes at that time, some of whom
are now in the house, know that we were, at the time when that
measure was brought in, firm in our possession of the govern-
ment. My friends who are present know the accuracy of my
statement, which is this:—That we were satisfied the tranquil-
lity of Ireland could not be preserved unless we adopted that
measure and changed our policy; and, so far from that measure
having been brought forwaid and supported by us with a view
to preserve our places, it must be well known that we hazarded
our places by pin suing that course, and that we actually resigned
our offices in consequence of the course that was then taken.
(Cheers.) What right, then, has the noble and learned lord.
in his fluent, and I may say flippant manner, to attack me as
he has done? (Hear, hear, arid much cheering.) But I pass
this subject over. The noble and learned lord has misrepre-
sented, as I understood, the noble duke. The noble duke said
he did consider himself responsible for the dismissal of the late
ministers; and the particular statement into which the noble duke
entered was for the purpose of sati fying your lordships, and for
the purpose of satisfying the country, that he knew nothing of
the fact of the dismissal until after it had taken place, (hear,
hear;) hut that, having acted afterwards in the way in which he
did, by the law and the constitution of the country be consi-
deredhituselfresponsible for the ze t. (Cheers.) That was a
taisrepresentaticu of the noble and learned lord. His quickness

and his sagacity must have caused him to understand the noble
duke; and I can ascribe what he stated only to an intention to
pervert the noble duke's statement. (Hear, hear, order, order,
and great confusion.)
Lord BIILII.:GHAM rose and said, as soon as silence was oh-
taiued,•--4 will just use the same language to the noble and
learned lord that he uses to me, if he chooses to make tins an
arena of indecency. When he says that I perverted what the
noble duke said, can only say that he has misstated every
word that I have used from beginning to end, and that he has
no right to say I intended to pervert.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said,—Perhaps I had no right in
strictness to say that the noble and learued lord intended to
pervert ; but I have stated my reasons fur the conclusion to
which I came: those grounds were satisfactory to my mind, and
the noble lord has not denied the correctness of my statement.
'Ube noble and learned lord, in defending the course which had
been adopted with reference to thedismissal of the late ministry,
said that if he had been called upon to advise his Majesty, tie
should have been ashamed of himself if he had not advised hitn
to dismiss them; not as a manner of-reproach but because un-
der the circumstances, and after the repeated breaches that had
taken place iu the government, there could be nu good ground
for supposing it would be permanent if made up again, but
rather fur believing that it would break up at a time when it
would produce the greatest incon yen it ace. (Cheers.) The no-
ble and learned lord had talkeil a great deal of the government
having had the confidence of the House of Commons•and of
the country. Where had the noble and learned lord been?
Where was he when parliament was dissolved ? He (the Lord
Chancellor) thought he could say from his o . u knowledge there
never had been a measure adopted by the crown that gave more
entire satisfaction. One circumstance in proof of it occurred in
Manchester, one of the most powerful and influential towns in
England, at a meeting to address the crown in favour of the
late ministers; and what took place ? An amendment was
moved at the meeting, consisting of ten thousand pelsons, to
address the crown thanking his Alajesty for what he had done.
(Hear, hear.) Several such instances had taken plaee. He
asked them upon what ground was It that noble lords took upon
tbemselves to say that the late government had the coufidence
of the House of Commons and of the country? (Cheers.)
They had been charged with misconduct in recommending a
dissolution of parliament; yet it was impossible, a.:f the noble
and learned lord had said, to ci.rry on the new government with
that Ilouse of Commons. He admitted that there was a neces-
sity for a change,' and therefore a dissolution look place.
( Hear.) That was the natural consequcetce after all. Indeed,
was it anything very novel that his Majesty should take the
sense of the people? If so, it was the first time he had ever
heard of it. flie people were appealed to, and what was the re-
sult? A great nuniberof gentlemen were ejected by theirformer
constituents, and many sent to their sects aho held opinions
consonant with the new government, so that the consequence
justified the appeal. (Hear.) So much for those two points;
but there was another charge-brought against his Majesty's
government, or rather against the noble duke, who, in conse-
quence of the absence of the right bon. baronet, (the Chan-
cel:or of the Exchequer), took upon him the office of First
Lord'a the Treasury. Now, either the late ministry must have
remained in power till the return of the right hon. baronet, or
a new government formed provisionally, as had been done.
Would it have been wise or expedient to suffer the guvern.nent
to remain in the hands of the late ministers ? It would not,
because it would have endangered the present government.
Had the late ministers remained in office, what use would they
have made of it? Their lordships very well knew that no per-
son holding the great seal had ever been in the habit of putting
the names of persons into the commission of the peace without
consulting, the lord-tieutenants of the respective counties. He
had never done so, nor did he believe that his noble predecessor
had. But what was done be the noble and learned lord himself?
He sent for the commissions of six counties, and made out the
flats for.tbe insertion of the names of persons after he was out
of office. (Cheers.) The names were actually inserted not
only without application to the lord-lieutenants of the counties,
but in direct opposition to their known wishes. (Hear.) He
did nut, however, say that this was illegal, but merely would
ask, ought such is power to remain in the hands of any minis-
ter, or be exercised by him after he had been virtually removed?
(Hear.) With respect to church patronage, it would certainly
have been competent for ministers to dispose of it as they
pleased; but was it not right that, under the circumstances, the
government should be taken up by some person? and who more
tit for the task than the noble duke? (Cheers.) His Majesty
offered him (the Lord Chancellor) the greal seal while he occu-
pied another office; but was there anything improper in that or
a plurality of offices? There were repeated instances of the
same thing. Lord Liverpool,was both first lord of the treasury
and secretary of state at the same time. Were the offices iu-
compatible? If so, they ought not to be held by the same per-
son; but the law had provided for it. When the chancellorship
of the exchequer was vacant, who was to bold the seals? The
lord chief justice of the Court of King's Bench, who also held
another high office. He did not consider that he bad acted
contrary to the law or his duty, and the noble and learned lord
should not say that he had no authority fur it, for be told him
to do it, and had declared that it was the best course he could
take. (Laughter.) But how did those who were called to office
conduct themselves? There was a pledge, a mutual pledge
given, that no office should be disposed of, and no promise made,
and that nothing should be done that was not strictly necessary
for carrying on the immediate business of the country. In
reply to the charge of inconsistency brought against him by,
Lord 8., the lord chancellor said that there was nothing incon-
sistent in the reforms contemplated by the present government
with his former conduct. Speaking cif the dissenters he said, it
was true the subject of marriage only was alluded to in his Ma-
jesty's speech, and the noble lord sneered at the manner in
which the government was about to relieve the dissenters; but
when the bill came before the house he would have an oppor-
tunity of judging and arguing upon it. It was, he thought, a
little too premature in the learned and, noble lord to sneer at it
before he saw it and knevi what it was. (Cheers.) He was
authorised to state, and he would state, that the proposed mea-
sure of relief for the dissenters would comprehend•the registra-
tion of births and burials, as well as marriage. There was
nothing recommended in the royal speech, or now contemplated
by the government, that any member of that government had
on any former occasion opposed, and persons who made such
charges ought first to be sure that they rested upon a solid foun-
dation. (Cheers.) He was quite sure that their lordships,,and
he hoped the other house also, would wait to see what were
really the measures the government intended to bring forward,
and not come to a hasty conclusion upon their estimate of the
principles of others. (Hear, hear.) Whatever might be the
result of that night's debate, be relied upon the judgment of
the House of Commons, and the good sense of the people of
England, iiilluetaing and directing the judgment of that house,
because be was sure it would be found, when their principles
and measures were more fully developed, that they were pur-
suing a course that was worthy the sanction of the country.
cCheers.) He was sure that the House of Commons would
follow a course consonant with the liberal feeling of the country,
and those principles which were found .d in justice. (Cheers.)
Lord BROUGHAM and the Lord CHANCELLOR mutually ex-
plained
Lord MI:I-GRAVE then addressed the house, and was followed
by the Earl of Hi ma, who expressed his intenteau of voting for
the address.
The Duke of RICHMOND would also vote for the address,
upon the principle of giving the ministry asluir trial.
The amendment was negatived without a division, and the
original address agreed to.—The house their adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUESDAY, FEB. 24.
The SPEAKER, attired in his state rubes, eutercd the house
shortly after one o'clock, when there were present upwards of
100 members. The proceeding of administering the oaths to
members who bad not yet been sworn was resumed, and con-
tinued until the appearance of the gentleman usher of the
black rod at the door of the house. Up to the tirue of adjourn-
ment yesterday, we understood upwards of 530 members had
taken and subscribed the oaths, and in the course of this morn-
ing between 50 and 60 members were sworn.
Precisely at ten minutes past two o'clock Sir A. Clifford, the
gentleman usher of the, black rod, presented himself at the
table, and addressing the Speaker said—" The King commands
the immediate attendance 'of sthis Hon. House iu the Hope
of Peers."
The Speaker, attended by a numerQus body
of reembers,then
proceeded to the house orlords to hear his majesty's speech
from the throne. After an absence of about twenty minutes,
the right hon. gentleman returned and resumed the chair, but
as no member presented himself at the table to be sworn, he
vacated the chair and withdrew.
At a quarter to four o'clock the Speaker again entered the
hoUse, which was then crowded in every part. Several mem-
bers took and subscribed the oaths.
The usual standing orders regulating the period for present-
ing petitions complaining of undue elections and returns of
members to serve in parliament within 14 days after the meet-
ing of parliament were read and agreed to.
rile other sessional orders were then read by the Speaker.
The order referring to the admission of strangers having been
read,
Mr. WARBURTON said it was idle, session after session, to
persist in making this order, which was never complied with.
His hon. friend the member for Middlesex, whom he did not
see in his place, he knew meant to object to its renewal; but,
in his absence, he (Mr. Warburton) should adopt the course
which bud been pursued last session, by moving that tre order
be defered until next meeting of parliament.
The order was postponed, and the other orders were then
agreed to.
A great number of notices of intended motions were given
by several members. Among them were the folio Aug :
Mr. Cobbett—the repeal of the poor law bill.
• The Marquis of Chandos-the repeal of the malt duties.
Sir Robert Musgrave—a bill for the relief of the poor in
Ireland.
Sir John Ciimpbell—a. bill to-abolish imprisonmentforilebt.
Mr. Jervis—a bill to regulate the execution of criminals in
the county of Chester.