The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-11-21 00:00:00

cation he entertained for them the highest respect, and he HENRY LAWRENCE rose to
could not admit that they had acted discreditably to their a remark of Mr. Aikin's, that he gave no
judgment in acquitting Mr. Sands of the charge. lie con- last meeting, and voted against the adjournment.
eluded by expressing a hope that they would, by electing Mr. EVANS remarked that, notwithstanding the optn-
Mr. Sande, stamp him with the same high and honoura- ion of the Mayor that he was precluded from addressing
ble character he had borne throughout. the Council, having spoken previously, he considered
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE said there were other parties on himself now entitled to do so, a substantial motion hay-
their trial to-day besides Mr. Sands. There was Mr. ing been made which he rose to second. He could not
Corrie, a man of integrity and judgment ; and though he do this without animadverting upon the character of the
preferred the charge at a critical moment, he considered gentleman whom he seconded ; and as he was a conser-
that it was time to put a stop to the practice. He (Mr. native his praise would not run to any length.
Lawrence) believed that Messrs. Sands were the only The TOWN-CLERK thought that the whole being one
house that had systematically carried it on. (Cries of question and Mr. Evans having already spoken, he could
" No, no.") He had never thought higher of Mr. Sands, not, with regard to propriety of proceeding, be permitted
whom he highly respected, than when he declined to be to speak again.
nominated until the matter was fully investigated, as ad- A long and somewhat irregular conversation arose,
vised by Mr. Lace and Mr. North, and he regretted that some members impugning the Town-clerk's law, and
determination had not been adhered to. He had a great others maintaining that any other course would lead to
respect for the gentlemen who had engaged in the mercan- an endless debate. The question having been decided
tile investigation ; but he could not acknowledge this that Mr. Evans could not be heard further,
decision. The case ought to have been investigated by Mr. SHAND expressed his opinion that no fraudulent
the council. If they elected Mr. Sands Mayor thee-could intention on the part of Mr. Sands having been imputed,
not afterwards put him upon his trial; neither could they the Council might fairly proceed to his election, and it
with propriety charge other town dues than he had been must be borne in mind that if, as it bad been said, the
paying. They had been told in the papers of Sunday election of Mr. Sands must be considered as a verdict of
meetings in the Town-hall on this subject, but he knew of acquittal, so his rejection must be regarded as one of
no such meetings. condemnation.
Sir T. FinaeicKert alluded to the alleged Sunday meet- Mr. TURNER said it was not his intention to speak at
ing, and showed that there was no truth whatever in the all this morning; but as a particular friend of his was
assertion. He was much pleased when Mr. Sands said now proposed, he could not refrain from seconding his
that he would not be nominated until the charge were nomination, and felt perfectly convinced that Mr. George
investigated. It could not be wiped away but by the Hall Lawrence would well and faithfully discharge the
council themselves investigating it. For himself, nothing duties of that high office.
could induce him, were he so circumstanced, to take that Mr. BLACKBURN had voted for the adjournment at
chair until an investigation had taken place ; and he the last meeting from a feeling that it was but just to give
thought Mr. Sands would stand in a better position next to Mr. Sands an opportunity of vindicating the charge
year for the honour to which he aspired. He (Sir T. B.) which had been brought against him by the Receiver of
would not, however, vote against him, but would retire the Town Dues. He was never of opinion, however, that
if the votes were taken. the council would be in a much better position to decide
Mr. DAVID HODGSON was compelled against his in- upon his claims at this meeting; and so it appeared was
clination to rise for the purpose of expressing his senti- the case. He felt, therefore, surprised that Mr. Sands
merits upon this subject. He felt that there was a very should offer himself for the office, whilst a prima fact
great singularity in the coincidence as to time of Mr. case against his fitness was still undecided, and was con-
Corrie's communication, and he felt inclined to think that vinced that he would better have consulted his honour,
there was some lurking cause for that coincidence some- and satisfied the public mind, by allowing another gentle-
where. The charge had been called a grave one, but it man to occupy the chair, and presenting himself for elec-
was also an indiscreet one ; to decide it, however, was tion, with a cleared reputation, another year. As between
beyond the powers of this council. It must go before a the two candidates, he certainly had a leaning towards Mr.
legal tribunal to decide what was the law of th case, and G. H. Lawrence; and in forming this, he was influenced
it was not at all competent for any committee, or any body by the liberal views which Me. Lawrence had entertained
of men, to decide upon a question of law, and purge a 1 on the subject of the Corporation Schools. For his views
man's honour as if they were deciding a Newmarket bet. on that question alone he should vote against Mr. Sands.
Nine years ago Mr. Corrie had brought this question be- He (Mr. Blackburn) would never give his vote for
fore the Finance Committee, and their answer to him was I any man who would be a party to inflicting the
" get what you can !" They had no definite law upon the gross hardships of excluding the poor Catholic child-
subject ; and instead of this council visiting Mr. Sands ren from the Schools of the Corporation. If Mr. G. H
conduct with reprobation, the council ought to thank him Lawrence then could assure him that he had not, as was
for affording them the opportunity to determine what was reported, retracted the opinions which he entertained 12
the law. Th council cannot be afraid of submitting these months ago, he should have his support. If he could not,
claims to the decision of the authorities of the land. It he should walk out when the votes were taken.
is discreditable for them to attempt to settle any such Mr. BIRKETT said he felt sorry that the charge had
question amongst themselves. Mr. Hodgson remarked been brought forward against Mr. Sands in such a man-
upon the impropriety of information having been with- ner, but he doubted not he would, when the proper inves-
held from him at the Town-office. tigation took place, stand higher with the public. After
The MAYOR explained that he had felt it his duty to 1 alluding to some expressions of Mr. Blackburn, and de-
give such instructions to protect the property of the bur- daring that in introducing politics or religion he had
gesses. never thrown the first stone, he stated that h e should
Mr. HODGSON proceeded to give the heeds of a num- have had no difficulty in giving his vote to Mr. Lawrence,
ber of questions which he had proposed to the Town yet what had been said by Mr. Blackburn had decided the
Clerk to be put to Mr. Corrie and answered, but was question in his mind. If Mr. Lawrence was to be brought
told that they could not be entertained. He proceeded to forward it should he by the majority and not the minority
give the transactions of several houses in 1812 and 1843, of the council.
and asked whether any remonstrance had been made on Mr. CHALMERS said there was no ground to suppose
the subject ; but could receive no reply. He no:v asked that Mr. Corrie had been instigated out of doors to bring
the Council why Mr. Sands had been charged for having forward the charge; but the only question they had to
entered 4299 boxes and trusses in 1843, whilst Messrs. consider was whether the practice was right or wrong.
Taylor, Potter and Co. had shipped 5000 and upwards, The investigation could only be legitimately gone into by
without remonstrance. the council. He agreed with Mr. Blackburn, that if Mr.
The MAYOR called attention to the fact that a portion Sands were elected it would be tantamount to consider-
of the goods shipped by one of the houses named were ing him guiltless.
entered as bales and cases. Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE expressed a hope that his friend
Mr. HODGSON proceeded to say, that if the goods Mr. Hornby would withdraw his (Mr. Lawrence's) name.
shipped by Mr. Sands had been spread over a great space lie should not himself vote against Mr. Sands. He only
of time, he could have no proof of the charge now made, thought that, after what had happened, it would be more
and it was absurd and injurious to bring such a charge, advisable for that gentleman not to come forward on this
which it was utterly impossible to substantiate. lie re- occasion ; but that was a matter for his own consideration.
marked upon the paltry amount of the dues said to be He (Mr. L.) had not withdrawn any of the opinions he
improperly paid, arid asked if it was dignified in this entertained on the school question. He entirely agreed
council to listen to a charge so trifling, affcting the ho- with the views of the Government on the subject, and
nour of a gentleman thought worthy by a majority of his regretted that Sir J. Graham had been baffled in his
fellow-townsmen to fill the office of Mayor of the second attempt to introduce his system in the manufacturing
commercial city in the empire. Had such a charge been districts.
made against himself, he should have taken quite an op- The Council then proceeded to the vote, for both can-
posite course to that taken by Mr. Sands, and, appealing didates, and Mr. Sands was elected by a majority of 35 to
to the law, defied any imputations which such a charge 19. The voting was as follows :
could bring. He should support Mr. Sands with his vote, For Mr. Sands.—Councillors D. Hodgson, Shand, R.
and trusted, for the honour of this council, that Mr. Sands Houghton, I. Holmes, Blundell, Edwards, Tirane, Rae,
would be elected, not only by a great majority, but unani- Toulmin, Aspinall, Sothern, Boyden, G. G. Hornby, W.
mously. Birkett, Wood, Boutflower, Bushell, Kilshaw, Rigby,
Mr. JOSEPH HORNBY said that he thought the discus. Lloyd, Jones, Parker, Plumpton, Glazebroo'e, A. Lace,
sion had now been carried quite far enough, and in order Trotmati, Harbord, Sheppard, and Smith; Aldermen R.
to bring it to a conclusion he had another gentleman to Houghton, J. Lawrence, Crook, Bramley-Moore, Moly-
propose in lieu of Mr. Sands. neux, and Chilton-35.
Mr. AIKIN thought that as the matter relating to Mr. For Mr. G. H. Lawrence.—Councillors W. Thornhill,
Sands had not been disposed of, the time was not yet Chalmer, Blackburn, Preston, H. Holmes, Aikin, H.
come for Mr. Hornby to propose another person. Hornby, J. Holmes, Stewart, H. Lawrence, J. Hornby,
Mr. HORNBY would not take up much of the time of the and Leigh ; Aldermen Barclay, Turner, Freme, Holt,
Council. Mr. Hodgson thought it sufficient evidence of Moon, and Evans; and the Mayor-19.
meeting the charge against Mr. Sands to implicate other Mr. SANDS was then sworn in, and inducted to the
parties, but in his (Mr. Hornby s) opinion two wrongs chair. He said that no one regretted the enquiry that
could not make a right. If other parties had cone- had taken place more than himself; but he had a perfect
mitted similar offence, that was no justification of consciousness that his house had acted right. He was
Mr. Sands; and with regard to the investigation which himself (as they all admitted) perfectly unconscious
had taken place out of doors, he did not consider it of that they were wrong. His anxious desire was to dis-
much importance. He had not the slightest personal charge the duties that devolved upon him to the satisfac-
feeling against Mr. Sands, but he thought it would be tion of the council arid the town at large ; and he besought
much preferable that Mr. Sands should not be elected the support of the members, in order that the business
until he had been acquitted by a committee formed in that might be so conducted as to maintain the high honour
town-hall. It was all nonsense to suppose that bales and and dignity of that body.
cases were not known. Was it probable that Mr. Sands
did not know a bale from a truss, or a box from a chest ?
The following gentlemen were elected members of the
It was nonsense to suppose that. Mr. Hodgson appeared
various committees for the ensuing year, viz. :
to think that as the charge was not of much amount, it
Finance Committee.—Sir T. Brancker, Messrs. Blr-
was paltry and contemptible ;but if a poor man inan were
kett, Bushell, Freme, John Holmes, Hugh Hornby, Re
Houghtonc,sjoounitnhm.e,irinGie,leaj.dstone, H. Lawrence, G. H. Law-
to steal a small piece of bacon from a shop, he would be
punished for it. In his (Mr. Hornby's) opinion the
rence, Leigh, Moon, Shaw, and Smith.
amount had nothing to do with it. Mr. Hornby then,
LMaews sr
er sn.c Aspinall,
after a flattering eulogium upon Mr. G. H. Lawrence,
,spHinoadlgl,soHnu, gßhouHtfloornwbeyr:
Tprreor
sitrtmeolanen,h'Sheppard, Harbord, Rae Kilshaw, Thornhill
proposed that gentleman for the office of Mayor.
Stewart,Turner Smith,Tinne Tirane,
rhkoemr,pGso.nH, H. L.
Hornby,awr'ence G. G.
Houghton,nornby
Mr. AIKIN thought it would be irregular to propose
another party till the present matter was disposed of. He
was however, anxious to reply to some observations made
by Mr. Hodgson. sen., Glazebrook, and Plumpton.
Improvement C'onimittee.—Messrs. H. Holmes, Tinne,
Mr. HODGSON here observed that he wished to make
an explanation with which the Town-clerk was acquainted. Stewart, Kilshaw, J. Lawrence, Plumpton, Turner, Bar-
The R.—What is it?
clay, Edwards, and Hodgson.
The MAYO
-CLERK said that Mr. Hodgson wished him Courts of Law Committee.—Messrs. H. Lawrence,
TOWN
to explain respecting the alleged meeting at the Town-
Stewart, H. Holmes, Lloyd, Molyneux, North, Hodg-
hall on the sth of November. He (the Town-clerk) on son, Plumpton, and Aspinall.
that morning was going from one room to the other, when Markets Committee.—Messrs. Aspinall, I. Holmes,
he met Mr. Corrie, who told him he had some matter of Kilshaw, Toulmin, Sheppard, Boutflower, Evans, Rigby,
importance to communicate. He told Mr. Corrie that and Trotman.
he would see him after he had come out of church. Education Committee.—Messrs. Chilton, Molyneux,
They met after church time, and the subject was about Crook, Edwards, Harbord, Hodgson, R. Houghton, sen.,
the charge against Mr. Sands. He the Town-clerk North, Rae, G. H. Lawrence, Shand, Shaw, Thompson,
then fixed that Mr. Corrie should meet the Mayor Boutflower, and Glazebrook.
a quarter before ten o'clock on the following morning. Gaol Committee.—The Mayor, Messrs. Aikin, Evans,
That was the only interview upon the subject on the Sun-
Hodgson, J. Holmes, H. Hornby, R. Houghton, jun.,
day, and the communication was made to the Mayor on Turner, and Gladstone.
the following morning at a quarter before ten o'clock. Town-hall Committee. —The Mayor, Sir T. Brancker,
Mr. AIKIN then rose and spoke at considerable length.
Messrs. Barclay, Bushell, Hodgson, B. M oore, and Glad-
After replying to some of the statements of Mr. Hodgson, stone.
he contended that it would be highly improper for Mr. Health Committee.—The Mayor, Messrs. Blackburn,
Birkett, Bulley, Sothern, Harbord, Houghton, sen., I.
Sands to be appointed Mayor, whilst the present charge
Holmes, Kilshaw, Sheppard, Lace, Boutflower, Parker,
against him was not disposed of, supposing Mr. Sands
were elected, the first thing he would have to do, would be Glazebrook, Tirane, Toulmin, and Aspinall.
Gardens Committee.—Messrs. Crook, Jones, Preston,
to appoint a committee which was to investigate the charge
Thornhill, Trotman, Boyden, and I. Holmes.
against him. Mr. Aikin concluded by stating that he
Borough Court Commillee.—Messrs. North, Trotman,
conceived the council would be pre-judging the case if
they elected Mr. Sands, and under all the circumstances Holt, Lace, Lloyd, Thompson, Edwards, and I. Holmes.
of the case, he thought Mr. Sands would act the wiser Church Expenditure Committee.—Messrs. Molyneux,
part by retiring at once. He should vote against him.
Griffith, Lace, Parker, Shand, G. G. Hornby, and Bir-
Mr. LACE rose to say that as his name had been fre-
kett.
ommit
quently referred to in this debate, he felt bound to say
Ni Observatory C
col, Houghton, sen.tee.—Messrs. Aikin, Blundell,
, Rae, Shand, Plumpton, and
that he still firmly adhered to the propriety of the advice
which at first he had felt it his duty to offer to Mr. Sands. Blackburn.
.
He thought. that his election at this moment, with an
Fire Committee
Gla e,
enquiry on the subject of a charge brought against his
Hornby,
Stewart, Turnerdston—Messrs. Aikin, G. G. Hornby, H.
Nicol, Lloyd, Shand, J. Lawrence,
, and Sir T. Brancker.
conduct impending against him, would be placing
Commissioners under the Pilot Act.—Messrs. Sotheria,
the Council in a position of some difficulty. He
Boutflower, Glazebrook, Tirane G. G. Hornby, and
had been materially influenced in the vote which
alrner
he should give this day from some remarks which he
Ch.
had heard had been made out of doors. It was said Auditors of Accounts.—Messrs. Sanderson, Welstead,
and Green.
that he was privately of opinion that Mr. Sands was

saver to

COMMITTEES, &C

. .
morally guilty of the offence charged against him.
He distinctly denied that he was of such an opinion.
He believed that Mr. Sands was individually, actuated by

THE MAYOR'S ALLOWANCE.
Upon the motion of Sir T. BRANCKER, it was agreed
that the allowance to the Mayor should be £2,000, ac-
cording to the resolution of the Council of March, 1836.

no unworthy motives in the course which- he had pur-

sued, awl that he had done only what he conceived he was

justified in doing. He (Mr. Lace) should therefore, not-
pithstanding any opinions which he might hold upon the
übject, give his vote for Mr. Sands.
Mr. PARKER said it was his intention to vote for Mr.
Sands and no other. It was quite wrong that they had

QUARTERLY COUNCIL MEETINGS.
It was agreed that the three following quarterly meet-
ings of the Council for 1843-4 should be held on the first
Wednesday in February, May, and August, 1844.

ROUTINE BUSINESS

not fixed upon the mayor at their former meeting. They
had, however, two candidates—(" No, no," from Mr. G.
H. Lawrence)—for the office of mayor. He had a great
respect for both, and thought both eligible for the office;
but he would give his vote for that man who had always
supported sound Protestant principles. There was no
man who would support those principles better than
Mr. Sands. There was no man who had shown bet-
ter Protestant principles on the School question than that
gentleman had, although he was not a member of the Es-
tablished Church of England. He should therefore with
much pleasure support him.
Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE said he would support Mr.
Sands. It was an old English maxim to consider a man
ir. he did,mo here
Moore
innocent till be was proved guilty. (Hear, hear.) He
thought, however, it was for Mr. Sands to say whether
tualdk e acitcepwtithofaltlheitsoffirecsepoonrsibniolit;ieasn.d ifll,
inheuslro

Mr. John Wybcrgh was re-appointed as treasurer ; the
annual officers were re-appointed ; the charters, deeds,
records, and muniments were ordered to be kept in the
repository, and the common seal in the chest; the stand-
ing orders were re-passed ; a report respecting dangerous
buildings in Fleet-street was referred to the Finance Com-
mittee ; and the proceedings of the last monthly council
were read.

THE TOWN DUES

Mr. BUSHELL, gave notice of motion for Monday to
appoint a special committee of the council, to inquire into
the recent charge preferred by Mr. Corrie.
The MAYOR intimated his intention of resigning the
chairmanship of the Dock Committee.
The council adjourned at four o'clock.

HER MAJESTY'S COACHMAN.—Her Majesty's State
coachman, Mr. Henry Manwaling, died on Sunday morn-
ing, leaving a wife and large family to deplore his loss.
It is added, he was an old and respected servant of their
late Majesties George IV. and William IV., and of the
present Queen, and universally esteemed by his fellow
servants. He filled the situation as State coachman only
ten months—making the deaths of three of her Majesty's
State coachmen in less than two years.

then went on to state that other houses had charges pre-
ferred against them as well as those of Mr. Sands, when
he was interrupted by
Mr. HENRY LAWRENCE, who considered him out of
order, on alluding to any other party.
The MAYOR said it would remain for Mr. Moore to

explain.
Mr. MooRE said he had heard of a similar charge against
Sir Thomas Brancker, and it would be for Sir Thomas to

say whether the charge was right or not.
The MAYOR thought Mr. Moore bad better retract, or
go further and explain.
Mr. MOORE said he would not proceed further; but
such a rumour was afloat in the town. It was not for him
to say whether it was true or not, but as Sir Thomas was

ACCIDENT IN PLYMOUTH SOUND.—On Wednesday
afternoon, about two o'clock, it being then very squally
weather, a shore boat was seen to upset between the east-
ern end of the Breakwater and Rovisand Pier, by the men
on board the Tavy, the Queen's harbour-master's tender,
sonic of whom immediately went off to the spot in a boat,
and picked up an old man in a state of great exhaustion.

in the room, he could say whether true or false

They made a signal for assistance, on which
who WAR then nn hoard H.M.S. Caledonia,

Sr. Walker,
,roceeded to

time he had heard of such a charge, and that there was no

their aid, and having

taken the old man into his boat,

truth in it

MAYOR thought Mr. A
!tit altogether.

boore had better retract the

possible,
every
ssible,
as
took him on board the Caleaonia, v.uG. wcitt-
ctatlePr et is); oarsepohsintsiblaes;quicklybut although
he expired shortly after. The boat sunkminutes
attempt
assistanceuas s s
madeprotmo

ittle be

The MAYOR.—I understand that you, Mr. Moore, re-
tract the whole of the statement ?
Mr. Moons.—Yes.

ymouth Times