The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-03-28 00:00:00

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OF COM MONS.—TRIIRSDA Y.
Mr. HUMS asked Lord Palmerston
,if it was his intention
to renew the debate on the Ashburton treaty.
Lord PALMERSTON said he was satisiied with the result of
of the discussion, for after the declaration of Sir R. Peel it
was impossible for him to have divided the house.
Mr. ti UM E then gave notice that, on the 31st of this month,
he would bring forward a motion for the approval of the
Ashburton treaty, and thanking the Government and Lord
Ashburton for having accomplished it.

Lord PALMERSTO took that opportunity of correcting a
mistake into which he had fallen, in stating that Lord Ash-
burton was not only a British subject but an American citi-

,n also.
In reply to a question from Mr. EWART,
Mr. GLADSTONE said that corn introduced into Canada
from any country in Europe or elsewhere could not, even
after paying the 3s duty, be shipped as Canadian corn to
England. The rule was that any article manufactured in any
country was received into this country as the produce of that
in which it was manufactured. If, therefore, the Canadians
manufactured flour from foreign corn, such flour must be re-
ceived as Canadian, the rule as to the raw produce having no
reference to the manufactured article.
Mr. HOGG presented the report of the Nottingham elec-
tion committee, which declared that Mr. Walter, through
his agents, had been guilty of bribery, but it was not proved
that he had been cognisant of it. The evidence was ordered
to be printed.
A discussion then arose as to the issue of a new writ for
the borough, to which Lord' LINCOLN objected, and moved
that it should be postponed for a week. On a division the
motion of Lord Lincoln was carried by a majority of 91
to 69, and the issue of the writ is accordingly postponed.
Mr..WILLIAMS moved for an account of the public ropney
expended on each of the royal palaces, gardens, and parks,
and the appurtenances thereof, stating the amount of the ex-
penditure from parliamentary grants, crown revenues surren-
dered to the public by civil list acts, and other sources ;" and
• also the amount of the salaries and other emoluments received
by the 'rangers abd deputy-rankers in each year front 1811 to
red by Messrs 1 842 inclusiv 1

Lord LINCOLN'S only 'objection to such a return was the
great' labobr and expense which it would occasion. If the
hon. member wished merely to know the principle on which
this branch of outlay was regulated, he might obtain his ob-
ject by conning the motion to a shorter period.; and if he
sought only to- know any particular facts, that information
should be given to him whenever he would apply for it at the
office of Woods and FOrests. He would suggest that the hoe.
member should limit the' return to the laSt ten years. It was
true-that some of-the palaces were not kept up for the use of
the Sovereign, for they were in fact kept up .chiefly for the.
benefit and amusement of the public, as in the instance of
Hampton-court. As to the supposed object of favouring in-
dividuals who have political interest, Mr. Williams was
greatly mistaken. No one had been recommended to her
Majesty by the present government on that -score ; and he
thought the house would hardly censure the application of
this patronage when lie stated that the two last nominated
occupiers of royal apartments were the Marchioness Wel-
lesley and the sister of the late Under-Secretary Drum-
mond,
Mr. Huse denied that the return asked for would he at-
tended with the difficulty supposed by the noble lord. More
palaces were kept up than were at all necessary. The old rule
was a good one, which was, that every repair or alteration in
any of the royal apartments occupied by way of favour should
be at the expense of the occupier asking for it ; and that every
such occupier should, on quitting, make good whatever, he
had caused to be altered. He would advise Mr. Williams to
aceeptahe return as offered by Lord Lincoln.
Sir R. PEEL said, that Lord Lincoln'a offer showed the
total absence of desire on the part of government to conceal
' • The official establishments were not now sufficient
than the conduct nf the oraipary business; and if
extensive returns like these were thus -frequently called for,
there would arise a necessity for such an increase in those
establishments as would be extremely unacceptable to the
friends of economy; moreover, the total of an account taken
for 30 years would always look invidiously large ; even the
expenditure of any private nobleman, on the aggragate of 50
years, would appear enormous. Let it not be supposed that
all these palaces and parks were kept up for the Sovereign
alone; a great part of this expense was- incurred solely for
the health and recreation of-the public. It was better, for
the preservation of the palaces themselves, that they 8414
be inhabited, than deserted; and few gentlemen, 'he pre-
sumed, would like to see Hampton-court Palace. the noble
pile of Cardinal Wolsey, sold by Mr. George Robins. He
referred to the great expenses incurred in the late christen-
ing, in the visit of the King of Prussia 'and in the royal pro.
gress to Scotland, all of which -had been defrayed from the
Queen's privy purse, without- any application for aid from
the public, except in respect of a small sum laid out on
Windsor Castle when the Prince of Wales was christened;
and reminded the House :that the Queen had submitted her
own personal revepue to the operations of the ineopiestaiE, 1p
consideration of the sifferings'Pf her people.
Mr. CuniiEssPoke''a few words about the necessity of
economical vigilance.
Mr. F. BARING gave some explanations connected with
the late erection of stables. •
. Mr. WILLIAMS said his object had been to see what was
the expenditure 'of George IV. on these works and buildings.
He admitted the utility of the parks to the people of the tues
ruled that they, And not his constituents
_ at to pay for that accommodation. The la-
dies occupying apartments might be very deserving; but if
so, they 'ought to he provided ,for by allowenees in money.
He would accept the return as offered by Lord Lincoln, but
had no time to visit the public offices for the purpose of in-
.quiring into particular facts.
Lord LINCOLN was understood to say that the occupiers
of apartments are regularly charged with the repairs of them.
. Mr. BORTHWICK could not lose sight of the employment
which these edifices had afforded to the labouring poor.
The returns were then ordered in the -limited foriP sPS-
- by Lost!) Lpieorasr.
Mr. moved 'fo`r- some papers respeiting the corns
mercial and other relations between England and Naples, and
suggested reduntion of wages,
Sir R. PEEL could not, as a financial minister, consent to
reductions of duty with quite so much readiness as Mr. Hume
evinced in proposing them. He was willing to present some
of the papers moved for, but others he felt himself bound to
withhold, apprehending that international animosities, now
tranquilized, might be revived by the production of them.
Some, bnt not all, of the papers were then voted.
Mr. SMITH O'BarEsr came next. His motion was. for a
select committee to inquire into the execution and operation
of the poor law in Ireland. Be complained of the conduct
of the Commissioners. For instance, where the gnardiana of
an union bad ordered a meat dinners for the paupers on
Christmas-day; the commissioners had rebuked them, alleging
the necessity of protecting the rate-payers. There might
have been exaggerations ; but all he now asked was the means
of ascertaining whether the allegations made were exaggera-
tions or not. He earnestly advocated the principles of out-
door relief. When he had been speaking for a great length
of time, it was observed that 40 members were not present.
The gallery was cleared, but before the houSe could be cleared
three or four members came in and made up the complement.
Mr O'Brien then, ;iftpr tmjnfilgarlPt 4po§trOphe to-those who
had attempted to arrest his progress, resumed his course of
argument, the bearing of which; from the indistinctness-of his
delivery, it was difficult to collect. Ile did not mean, by
moving for a committee, to exonerate the government from
their proper responsibility of bringing in a bill upon this sub-
ject ; for the condition of the Irish poor was most deplorable.
Lord ELIOT said that the Government had received very
general testimony from most influential parties' as to the fact
that the law was working well in Ireland. The dissatisfaction
he believed arose from defects in the law, which it was his
intention to introduce a bill to remedy, until whets he thought
it better to postpone any general discussion op the subject.
The workhouses in-Ireland contained 4,000 people, and he
believed they were much conducive to habits of order and
subordination. The committee of inquiry could, he thought,
lead to no beneficial result, and he therefore opposed the
motion.
Sir D. NORREYS maintained that the workhouse system
tended to deteriorate the character of
.the peasantry of Ire-
land by encouraging habits of reeklessness and idleness. The
man who once became accustomed to the luxuries of the
workhouse, could hardly be expected to return willingly to a
wretched hovel and, miserable fare. "-
Mr: SnAw thought the existing law h4d pot an yet bad a
fair trial. If ofitsdoor relieterc teifbe- ailoWed in it country
like Ireland, where the mass of the population were sunk in
extreme Poverty; it would be in effect a confiscation of the
landed property of that country.
'Mr. S. CIUiNVFORD Supported the Motion.
Mr. Escort deprecated the idea of taking the subject out
of the hands-of the Government.' lie looked upon the great
evil in Ireland to-be the same as-it was in England, the erec.-
flog of union workhouses.
- Sir BARRON supported the existing law, which, he
contended, had not- yet had a fair trial ; but which would
pro'ie erninently beneficial if supported properly by the gentry
of Ireland.'
Lord H

Wa3 of op:nion that inquiry Was

After same observations from Mr. FA-I.:Ncit,
Mr. Gnecony suggested to Mr. O'Brien that under the
circumstances it would be advisable to withdraw the motion.
Sir It. Fenotisox contended for the necesity of investi-
gation.
Lord BARNARD opposed the motion of the hon. member
for the county of Limerick, while he contended that there
were many defects in the existing law which required a re-
medy.

'Sir J. GRAHAM said that government had matured a bill
on this 'subject, which would be laid upon the table before
Easter in order thgt it might bp considered during the recess.
In that bill moat of the matters ivferred to by Air. O'Brien
would be found to be 'dealt with, but 'at the same time the
power of the commissioners would' be maintained, as would
also the principle of confining the relief to the workhouses.
If the question of out-door relief were to he considered at all,
it should be considered by the house itself, and not by a com-
mittee

If was a qUetiiiii the-utmost importance, inas-
much as out-door relief in Ireland might amount•to the con-
fiscation of the landed property of that portion of the United
Kingdom.

• Mr. Ross said as it was the intention of the government
to bring in a bill upon the subject, he would note as he had
intended to do, support the' motion of 114 bqn. friend (Mr.
O'Brien).

- - • Mr. S. 0, BRIEN replied, and the houFe divided, ,A ben his
motion %vas defeat6l byamajprity of 108 to 23.

Sir J. IVALsu moved for leave to bring in the Parish Ves-
tries' Bin. -

Mr. DUNCOMDti moved as an amendment that the debate
be' adjourned, which, on a division, was lost by a majority of

BE then moved the adjournment of the house,

igilipst•

sn.moved that the de-

.11ourned.:till T!widay next, which ;;;;

at 4 quarter pat one