The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-05-29 00:00:00

zo Lit oii or krt.

mu he SOLD or LET, Furnished, NORTH VIEW
X HOUSE, Evnirros VALLEY, two miles from the Liver-
pool Exchange, in the most healthful situation; built in the
most substantial manner of polished stone, and • ed in a su-
perb style, with excellent mahogany do , -c.; with a good
Garden, well stocked with choice fr rees iu full bearing, en-
closed with a strong stone Iran, Co. -house, Stable, a Shippon
for four cows; with or without about 14,0001 square yards of
LAND.—AIso, Three SHOPS in Paradise-street, corucr of
King-street, and a WAREHOUSE adjoining. Laud of inhe-
ritance.
Ten ROOMS to he LET for Offices.

Apply to JOHN LANG, on the Premises; or to Mr. DALE,
Church-street, Liverpool.

ilagat Xoticto.

r -11 ill E commissioners in a fiat in bankitiptcy, bearing date
1 the second day of June, 183-1, awarded and issued forth
against WILLIAM ALEXANDER OHMANN and
JAME'S .COLQUHOUN KEMP, of Liv ptiol, in the
s
county of Lancaster; 'merchants, ' dealers apinen, and co-
partners, intend to- meet on SATUlill e vemext, the 30th day, of
May instant; at one o'clock in the fun.i oon, at the Clarendon-
rooms, South John-street, in Liverpool aforesaid, in order to
make-a-dividend of the separate estate and effects of WILLIAM
-Atls:xaNnEti On st ANN, one of the said Bankrupts, when and
where the creditors, who have not all eady proved their debts,
are tp.come prepared to prove the same, or they will be excluded
the benefit of the said dividend; and ail claims not then proved
will .be disallowed. •MAWDSLEY, Solicitor.

rytllE commissioners in a fiat in bankruptcy bearing date the
10th of October, 1834, awarded and issued, forth against
RALPH ourrElslDE, of Liverpool, in the' county of
Lancaster, tailor and draper, dealer and achernan, intend to
meet on Tuesday, the 2d day of June nog" at eleven o'clock
in the forenoon precisely, at the Clarendon-rooms, South-John
street, in Liverpool aforesaid, in order to make a dividend of the
• estate and effects of the said bankrupt; when anq where the
creditors who have not already proved their debts are to come
prepared to prove the same, or they will be excluded the bene-
fit of the said dividend. And all claims nut then proved will
be disallowed.

Al ANVDSLEY, Solicitor.

NbaTri bankruptcy awardedHY Ai
\rstt issued
IV I ForthiE EaAg &LSI nas t fit
1-1-I'i
Liverpool, in the county of Lancaster, merchant, (lately carry-
ing on business at Liverpool aforesaid, in copartnership•with
John Willis, as merchants, under the firin of Willi
Swain-
son,) and he, being declared a bankrupt,. ilt y required to
surrender himFelf to the commissioners it e said fiat named,
or the major part of them, on the 6th day of June next and on
the 7th day of July following, at One o'clock in the afternoon
on each day, at the Clarendon-rooms, in Liverpool in the said
county, and make a full discovery and disclosure of his es:ate
and effects ; when and where the creditors are to come pi epared
to prove their debts, and at the first sitting to choose assignees,
and at the last sitting the said bankrupt is required to finish his
examination, and the creditors are to assent to or dissent from
the allowance of his certificate. All persons .indebted to the
said bankrupt, or that have any of his effects, are not to pay or
deliver the same but to whom the commissioners shall appoint,
but give notice to Messrs. .IoNEs and WARD, No. 1, John.
street, Bedford-row,,London ; or to Messrs. liosma and LLO I n,
Solicitors, Liverpool.

WHEREAS a fiat in bankruptcy is awarded atid issued
forth against EPHRAIM HOBSON, now or late of
Liverpool. in the counts' of Lancaster, grocer, dealer and chap-
man, and he, being declared a bankrupt, is hereby required to
surrender himself to the commissioners in the said fiat named.
or the major part of them, on the 10th day of J ne next, and
on following, at l'w!! 'e e clock at noon
on each i
cl:td clay' of
,att'ljteultllarendon-rooms, Averpool, in the said
and make a full discovery an disclosure of his estate
anudn effects; when and where the creditors are to come prepar-
ed to prove their debts, and at the first sitting to choose assignees,
and at-the last sitting the said bankrupt is required to finish his
examination, and the creditors are to assent to or dissent from
the allowance of his certificate. All persons indebted to the
said bankrupt, or that have any of his effects, are not to pay or
deliver the same but to whom the commissioners shall appoint,
but give notice to Messrs. ARLINGTON, GREGORY, and FAVI.K-
NKR, solicitors, Bedford-row, London; or to Messrs. JOHN and
JAMES BROWN, solicitors, 2, Exchange-street East, Liverpool.

BULLOCKS'S CAMPHOR TOOTH PASTE. -
r-rHE extraordinary virtue of this valuable paste in quickly
cleaning and beautifying the teeth, and the safety of its
use from not having in its composition any acid or !:ntrosive
article that can corrode or wear off the enamel, Picts ac-
kncmledged by the most respectable med. •al orities, who
use it, and have honoured the proprietor recommending it
for general use; therefore all panegyric is totally unnecessary,
it having been proved beyond the possibility of doubt that the
teeth, however foul or discoloured by neglect,' will, on using the
paste a very short time, acquire a beautiful whiteness. Prom
its astringent qualities it strengthens the gums and eradicates
the scurvy, which is often the destruction of a whole set of
teeth, sweetens the breath, fastens the teeth; prevents those that
are sound from decaying, and decayed ones from becoming
worse.

Prepared only by D. Bui,LocK, Dispensing Chernist,s, King-
street, Maneliei.ter; and sold in Pots at 2s. and 3s. each,,by
loss and NIGHTINGALE, Chronicle Mice, and Mr. PIitEETL
Lord-street, Liverpool; THISTLETHW A ITE and WE.BsTiiit,

-- _..:. .

Emperial 13arliament.
. ,
-';:42otigfl-s OF lAint DS .
ThO,Ouhe of 4:s toolcilie.atlis and..his- seat.
Several petitions vvere. presented to the house, praying fur
protection to the established church- of Scotland.
PRISON orscter.tsie.,
The Duke of RicHsloNu said, it had been his intention this
evening to move certain cesolutions founded on-the report of the
committee on prison discipline ; but as:the evidence taken be-
'fore the 'committee had been placed- in-- their lordships' hands
• only that morning, he deemed it 'necessary to postpone his .
mo-
tion. He was, however, most anxious on this occasion to make
• a proposal to his noble friend at the head of his Majesty's go-
. vernment.ep„,arsatlijv'et which, in his humble opinion, very much
concerned fhe country at large. Every man now admitted that
the gaol.act required amendment. The task, it appeared to
him, ought to be left with the. government of the country, be-
cause they had greater 'facilittes for the acquirement of correct
infortintion on the subject than ant private member of the le-
gislature could have. (Hear, hear.) His proposal, therefore,
would be, that his noble friend should, without delay, lay before
the- house a measure for the amendment of the 4th of George
1%., commonly called the gaol act; and that the bill should
contain provisions enacting, Ist, that one uniform system of
• discipline should be adopted in every gaol throughout the coun-
try ; 2d, that the rules and regulations for the government of
gaols, which heretofore were laid before the judges of assize for
. their approval and confirmation, should be submitted to the Se-
cretary of State for the Home Department; and, 3d, that gaol
inspectors should be appointed by his 'Majests's government.
That bill, he was of opinion, ought to be submitted to the gaol
, committee, who, having paid much attention to the subject, and
having acquired considerable information by visiting most of
the gaols of the metropolis, were most competent to judge of
• the means by which etficieat prison discipline could he be t
carried into effect. These were the reasons that induced him
to adopt the course which he now recommended. That the ex-
Dating prison system should be altered was quite evident; for he,
as well as others, felt that it was now almost impossible for any
but the most depraved criminals to remain in gaols, as they
were now conducted, without injury to their morals. (Hear,
bear.) The whole of the evidence proved that the evil which
ilia painted out did exist to a frightful degree. The committee
of 1831 and 1832 on secondary punishments acknowledged the
existence of the evil, and recommended that measures should
be forthwith adopted to put an end to it. Under these circum-
stances, he hoped that his noble friend would agree to the pro-
- postal. He believed that their lordships would feel that the
emirs° which be recommended would he the most pi oper one to
• pursue, and that it would be ,the means of removing one of
those grietantsis which their lordships could not, consistently
with their duty, allow another'session to pass by without cor-
• seeing. (Hear, bear.)
• Viscount NIELBoImNE admitted the great interest and im-
portance of the subject: feeling the justice of the grounds
which his noble friend had stated, and strongly agreeing with
him in opinion that it was necessary to take steps, without
• delay, for the removal of the evil complained of, he had no
hesitation in saying that he would endeavour, with ail conve-
-• silent speed, to lay on the table of that house a bill for the pur-
, pose of effecting the object which his noble friend had in view.
(Hear, hear.)
• Lord BROCGHAM gave notice that he would on Thursday
next lay on their lordships' table a bill of great importance
AS it respected the municipal law of the country, but chiefly of
'l3Cotlaud, with reference to Scotch marriages; and also a bill
similar tq that which he had introduced -In the session before
last relative to the general law of patents. The noble and
learned lord soon after stated, that as he understood it would be
inconvenient for some noble lords to attend on Thursday, he
should introduce the bills on Friday.
The-Duke of BccctEcc la presented- a petition from certain
farmers of Buckinghamshire, the occupiers of- 33,400 acres of
land, and another from the farmers of Wellingborough, in
Northamptonshire, the occupiers of 16,800 acres of land, against
the 'lslington market bill.
In answer to a question from the Marquis of Westmeath,
relative to the ecclesiastical jurisdiction bill,
Lord &tomlAm said that the bill then before their lordships
was the same (with the exception of five or six clauses, which-
- were objected to, having been omitted) as that which he had
formerly introduced, and which had- been read a first time. It
would not be necessary for him to go on with the bill, if the
measure which was then proceeding through the House of Com-
mons met the objects which he had in view. When he brought
in the bill at the commencement of the present session, he had
stated that he would not proceed with it till he had seen the
measure which had been proposed in the commons. He sup-
posed that in the course of eight or ten days the bill would be
before their lordships. and then he could decide on the course
which it would be necessary for him to take.
PARTY PROciiSsIONS.

Lord FARNHAM said that in the discussien which took place
on Friday night, relative to the procession that accompanied
the lord-lieutenant into Dublin, a difference of opinion ap-
peared to be entertained as to the legality of that procession.
?Tow, in order to see what processions had been heretofore con-
sidered illegal, he should move (and he believed that the noble
tiscount opposite had no objection to produce the document)
for "a return of all indictments preferred by order of the Irish
government, under the act of the 4th year of his present Majesty,
for restraining party processions in Ireland, together with the
finding of the grand and petty juries, and a statement of the
. sessions at which the trials took place."—Ordered.
• The Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved the adjournment of the
house.
The Earl of RODEN would take that opportunity to ask the
noble viscount at the head of his Majesty's government, whether
he was content to lay before the house the despatch of the lord-
lieutenant of Ireland respecting the entry of- that officer into
Dublin
. Viscount MELBOURNE answered that as no grounds had been
adduced for laying the despatch before their -lordships, he did
pot feel that he should be justified in producing it.
A short discussion ensued in which the Earl of Roden, the.
Marquis of Londonderry, the Earl of Wicklow, the Earl of.
Leitrim, and Viscount Melbourne took part, and the house'
ad

HOUSE OF COMMONS,. MONDAY.
TRINITY HARBOUR BILL.
Mr. enema moved an instruction to the committee on this
bill, which was negatived without a division.
Lord J. STUART presented petitions from hand-loom weavers
aomplaining of distress, and others from certain places in Scot-
land against any grant to the established church of that country.
• CASE OF MR. CHILDS.
Sir W. Fot;LK as presented some petitions from Norfolk, and
a petition from Mr. Childs himself, praying the house to inter-
fere in his Case.

Mr. Hume presented other petitions to the same effect.
Lord FIEVN IKFR shortly explained the facts of this case. In
doing so he said that it appeared, that to the year 1833 no oppo.
sition had beea, inade in Liungay to the payment of cburch-rates,
and that then, of the two or three gentlemeu who opposed them,
one was a relation of Mr. Childs. His goods were distrained,
but they were returned to him under circumstances of consider-
able excitement. He was aware that this statement would be
denied on the other aide, but he confidently left it to the house
to.decide between the conflicting statements of the parties. In
1/334, again, a rate was made, and no objection was made to it
at the time of its being made, and not until the time of its being
levied. He would just state the reasons which had induced the
churchwardens to adopt the course they had pursued. The first
was, that one of the, magistrates of Bungay was a clergyman;
another was, to prevent the recurrence of excitement that pre-
vailed in Bungay in 1833, from the distraint of goods for the
payment of church rates; the third was, that they thought the
IE4I place to decide the cause was the consistorial court of Nor-
wich, which would finally settle the question Mr. Childs had
saised. The churchwardens had given Mr. Childs many oppor-
tunities of paying the rates without costs, and several other gen-
tlemen to whom
.they had written for the same purpose had paid
the sums due by them. Notwithstanding repeated applications,
Mr. Childs had refused to do so. He had great pleasure in con-
gratulating the hon. member for Middlesex on the release of
Mr. Childs from prison, a fact of which he had been informed
in a letter which he had received that morning. No one re-
joiced in that circumstance more than he did. (Hear, hear.)
He assured the house that the facts would appear to be as he
had described then, whenever the returns were presented.
A. long and animated 'debate ensued, at the close of which
chapetition was laid on the table of the house.

BOROUGH OF TIVERTON.

A new writ was ordered for this borough in the room of James
Xeunedy, Esq., who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.

MR. v'CONNKLL.
Mr. A. TREVOR had a question of prominent importance to
put-to the noble lord, one in which the public felt the greatest
anxiety. tie wished to know whether the reports in the journals
supposed to be the organs of his majesty's government (hear,
hear) were wellfounded—and he asked because they seemed to
be corroborated by the recent language of the hon. and learned
member himself—that the Irish appointments had been submit-
ted; either aireetly or indirectly, to the sanction and approba-
sitin of the lahn.. and learned member for Dublin. (" Ob, oh.")
o answer was returned to this question.
IRISH CHURCH.
Mr. SINCLAIR said that although he had been somewhat an-
ticipated by the discussion which had taken place at an. earlier
hour in the evening;-still be would wish to ask the noble lord—
and-he tipped his would be a little more explicit than it
bail. fennerlv been--what steps his majesty's ministers were
about to takC with respect to the Irish tithe bill, and whether it
ssasiheir intention-to introduce a measure in accordance with
the i-esolution which had been sanctioned by a majority of that
house relative to the appropriation of the surplus revenues of
the trice)s.hura,/,,..he_goyunmentwereAwitie the state of
Irelan and the fee Mg which existed ou this subject in the
eountry; and he. hoped -therefore. the pbblie would not be kept
_in. the dark as to their intentions.

Lord Jos Rl:ssitz.t. said that it was certainly the intention
afgovernraent to propose a measure foundcd on the resolution
Mating to the applopriation of the surplus revenue of the church
of Ireland. and he should bP able to bring in a hill to that effect
shortly after Whitsuntide. but be was not able to state the pre-
cise day.

THE ARCHD/SHOP OP DUBLIN.

An bon. member. asked. Lord Johti Russell whether it was'
true that in consequence of the measure contemplated by go-
vernment'vrith regard to the Irish church, the Archbishop of
Dublin had intimated his intention Of resigning his seat at the
Irish boartof education. . •
Lorq:J. Russet.t. said that he had received a confidential
tomraunication from the most reverend prelate,.the nature of
which .the honourable member must perceive prevented him
from giving an answer to that question, but he believed he
weight say that the sentiments of the archbiShop were almost in
entire accordance with theopinions entertained by the govern.
scent on the subject of the Irish church.' The noble lord then
observed, that, as the.nobie lord, the member for Buckingham-
shire, had, kindly consented when ho (Lord J. Russell) was not
a member of the house to keep back his motion, which stood for
to-night, ,f 0 a short time, he would now wave the, right of the
governi'nent,.and would allow the noble lord'i motion ,to •fake
yr ecedenc!e.
Lord,SANDosi said that, before the business of the house was
proceeded with, he wished to ask a question, of no great interest
to hononrable members generally, but still a qUestion for which
many would.loolefoi an answer with anxiety. He wished to
inquire. eT the rightAienourable gentleman, the President of the
'Board .Of Trade, whether the system of licenses under which ar-
vv/re introduced into the Isle of Man, which ought not to
he ini4eofed there, was intended to be continued, or whether
Any• to be effected in that system ? Ile trusted, as
itAlifki lupe hear the time when the licenses were annually re-
..eosted, -something wool(' be done to alter this System.
Mr. P. THamsoN remarked, that the noble lord had inquired
whether. it was his intention to introduce a bill to ptst the trade
of the Isle of Man in corn on a different footing to that in which
it now stood. That subject had attracted the attention of the
late government, but when he came to inquire into it, he found
that no progress had been made in the matter. He could not
say that the time of the session would admit of their legislating
on this subject this year, hut he allowed that the trade ought to
be.placed on the same footing iu the Isle of Man as in the rest
of the United king.deui.

• • ,J • AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
The 'M'Arkfauls of CH/Axons in bringing this subject•before
the„flonSe.saitl that it was impossible fur any man to conceal
from himseit the .desperate condition in which the English
,laratai ititiars plaovd, and Limit Ito it:)untry gentlenun who

•

was continually seeing his old tenants obliged to give up their.
farms would .deny that some aneasure. of relief -'was absulGtety
aisioeasavy. plan he. bad' to liroptise only give the
farmer relief for tire present;:and Was not a definitive measure.
But he Iniped that a iaiger measure of relief would be brought
forward at no distant period. Since the •time of George 111,-
the county rites had been greatly Mcreaeed,, and the farmers
had-been ,burthened with the charges of-building and•repairing
bridges in counties, and of giving statute labour oe the high-
ways. From the commutation of tithes reliefluid been-expect-
ed,- but the
intention to proceed- with arts-other measures than those
they had already given notice of. lie (the Marquis Chandos)
thought that a'cinninutation of tithes would be. a medium of con-
siderable relief to the occupiers of laud, and he therefore
earnestly hoped that some measure of this kind would be pro-
posed during the present session. . When the house considered
the present price of produce, that wheat was now at four shil-
lings which was last year at six shillings, and that the diminu-
tion in price was not sudden or temporary, but had for a long
period been decreasing, he thought the house would admit that
something should be done to relieve land from the pressure of
local taxation. He held in his hand a calculation made by Sir
George Sinclair, which showed that in 1800 the price of wheat
was 110 s. ;in 1812, 1225; in 1833, 555. ;in 1831, 4-Is; and in
1835, 38s. The house would judge for itself from this regular
descending scale in the remuneration which the fanner had ob-
tained for his produce, whether the time had nut at length ar-
rived when some telief must be given to him, if he was any
longer to cultivate the land for a subsistence. Even the low
price which he did get for his produce was reduced still lower
by foreign importations. Looking at the Mark-lane account,
he perceived that there were 515 quarters of foreign wheat and
33,490 quarters of Irish oats, besides a very large quantity of
bonded corn and flour, lately imported. He would suggest to
the government that they should purchase the foreign corn that
came into the market, and bond it under the king's seal, so that
a preference might if possible be given to the produce of the
English farmer. He merely threw this out as a suggestion ; he
knew the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not partial to the
plan, but he hoped the government would take it into their
serious consideration. The ground on which he stood on the
present occasion was very narrow. His present motion was
restricted solely to the relief which the removal of local taxation
would afford the farmer, the question of the currency being in
the hands of another member of the house. In the general charge
of county rates the farmer severely felt the heavy pressure of the
maintenance of prisoners in (mot, and out of the same source
came the funds for building and' repairing bridges in the county.
He begged that the Chancellor would look to the report of the
committee on county-rates, and then take.these charges off the
land--throw the rates on the general charge of the country.
(Hear, hear.) Was is not fair that the public, who passedover
bridges constructed at an expense of £lOO,OOO or £200,0(X),
should contribute their quota towards defraying the costs ?
Again, the prosecution of felons and the maintenance of pri-
soners in gaol should not be forced upon the farmer; that also
should be a national charge: (Hear, hear.) The same observa-
tions applied to the performance of statute labour on the high-
ways: He thought it most unfair that the farmer should be
obliged to send men, whom he could be profitably employing on
his own farm, to make roads for the convenience of the public,
who contributed nothing towards the expense of keeping them.
in repair. Lord Althorp, when Chancellor of the Exchequer,
had made some small reductions in favour of the farmer. He
took off the duty on windows in farm-houses under £2OO, and
on horses used in husbandry on farms under 500, and reduced
the duty on farm servants under eighteen years of age. By the
first of these reductions the noble lord estimated that the reve-
nue would lose £35,000, by the second £lO,OOO, and by the last
£20,000. Now, t.iifting as this was, and trifling as he (the Mar-
quis of Chandos) thought it to be, he hoped the house would
a gree to take off the remainder of those taxes. The present
Chancellor of the Exchequer would perhaps tell him that the
surplus revenue would not permit him to accede to these reduc-
tions, but this he had been told by all the governments. He
should hare preferred the reduction of the malt tax, but the
large majority against him on that question led him to suppose
that he could not again bring it forward with any reasonable
prospect of success, After alluding to the operation of the poor
laws, the large importations of foreign butter, and some other
subjects connected with the agricultural interests of the country,
the noble marquis concluded by moving "That an humble ad-
dress be presented to his Majesty, expressing the deep regret
this house feels at the continued distressed state of the agricul-
tural interests of this country, to which the attention of parlia-
ment was called by his Majesty's most gracious speeches from
the throne at the commencement of the preceding and of the
present session of parliament, and humbly to represent the
anxious desire of this house that the attention of his Majesty's
government may be directed without delay to this subject, with
a view to the immediate removal of some portion of these bur-
dens to which the land is subject through the pressure of general
and local taxation."
The Earl of DARLINGTON seconded the motion.

Lord JOHN RUSSELl.Considered the motion of the noble mar-
quis brought forward with a view todraw from government some
expression of opinion respecting the burden of taxation under
which the farmer laboured. He did not, however, impute to the
noble marquis any other motive than a sincere desire to pro-
mote the cause he had so ably undertaken. Dui ins,! Earl Grey's
administration, a committee was appointed to inquire into the
agricultural distress of the country. That committee was very
fully attended by many gentlemen connected with the landed
interest, and the right hon. baronet the member for Cumberland
was chairman of it. The committee, after a laborious investi-
gation, made a report, which ended in saying that they reckoned
more on the forbearance than the active interposition of parlia-
ment, in order to effect relief to the distressed agriculturists.
That certainly was not recommending any very active relief of
any very extensive kind. The report made another assertion,
the accuracy of which no person could doubt; and which went to
the very fotindation of agricultural distress—namely that while
the outgoings of the farmer were considerable, and the price of
his produce much diminished, the burdens, consisting of county-
rates, and so on. had very much increased. This undoubtedly
was the case. In 1791 the general average of wheat was about
475.; in the beginning of 1793 it was 41s. In 1833 and 1834 the
prices had not been very different; and he had been informed
that the present average price was below 40s. While the prices
had come back to what they were in 1792 or 1793, the present
burdens were very much more heavy and oppressive. Instances
of this were given in the report of the committee appointed on
this subject last year, some of which the noble lord detailed.
He would observe, with respect to the report of the sub-com-
mittee that was also appointed, that report stated that the ex-
pense of the prosecutions which took place—the prosecutions
being of a public nature—ought to be defrayed, at all events in
'part, by the public, and recommended that the expense should
he the expense of the assizes, and not of the quarter sessions.
To that proposition there-was the objection, that such a system
would isold out a direct inducement to Commit prisoners to the
assizes and not-to the quarter sessions, eh:lough perhaps an an-
swer toahat might be, that it w.suld be necessary and requisite
to distinguish between offences. There was another question
in 'relation to this subjectnf the very highest importance, upon
which the recommendation of the committee could not be adopted
without the very fullest consideration—he meant the expediency
of introducing a public prosecutor into all our trials. From all he
himself had heard, he was inclined to think that it would much im-
prove the practice of the law if they adopted in soine respect that
practice. With regard to gaols, that question was already before a
committee in the other house of parliament, and may properly be
made the subject of a separate bill. It was the intention of go-
vernment to propose such a measure as would ensure unifor-
mity of discipline, and when that great object had been se-
cured, it would be time to consider whether the expense should
in part be borne by the public. With respect to the commuta-
tion of tithes, it. had undoubtedly been under the consideration
of government, and it had indeed been agreed to bring forward
some measure on the subject; but great difficulty was found in
making a compulsory settlement of the question, dependent as
it must be upon the ratio of payment for a certain number of
by-gone years. The right hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) for the
purpose of avoiding all the difficulties which enveloped the sub- ,
ject, proposed to introduce a bill for the voluntary commutation
of tithes. He (Lord J. Russell) did not, however, think that
such a measure could be generally carried into effect, and es-
pecially in those places where the greatest irritation prevailed.
What he should have to propose upon that subject was, that a
select committee should be appointed, embracing various mem-
bers from different parts of the country, representing the vari-
ous interests of those who were liable in particular districts to
the payment of tithes, for no compulsory measure could be pro-
perly and finally settled unless it were examined by some body
of men before whom the various claims and interests of the dit-
ferent tithe-payers were fairly heard. The noble lord then ad-
verted to the poor rates and to the new poor laws bill, which, al-
though onlyin partial operation, had, he contended, effected a
considerable reduction in the amount of rates levied. He then
proceeded tospeak at some length on this subject, and Concluded
by moving as an amendment—" That this house will direct its
early attention to the recommendation of the committee which
sat last session of parliament upon the subject of county rates,
with a view to the utmost practicable alleviation of those bur-
dens to which the land is subject through the presure of local
taxation." (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CoeBETT rose fin the purpose of answering the remarks
of the noble lord (John Russell) on the new poor law bill. The
commissioners could, no doubt, say that they had made great
savings but he (Mr. Cobbett) contended that they had not and
never would save the amount of -their own salaries except by
acts of sheer cruelty. ?Ir. Cobbett then referred to a,uunin of
thirty-six parishes in the county of Sussex of which the Duke
of Richmond was chairman. I.lnder the Richmond bill of fare
the allowances were so scanty, that one. of his (Mr. Cobbett's)
husbandry labourers would eatmore fur his breakfast than was
allowed for the support of a man for a week A spaniel should
he allowed more than--was by the system assigned to a man;
the system was monstrous, and it ill became a noble duke draw-
ing E12,t0)- alearl'Sistn- -ofthe- cotrotry to sanction' it. -
He acknowledged that :he could not help feeling much surprise
that any hon. member should treat tithes as a.burden deeply af-
fecting the landed interest; it might be expedient to reform the
church, and to make an extensive change in the nature and ad-
ministration:of her revenues, but he desired to learn wherein
did the burden of tithes consist ? Agriculture had flourished
at many periods since the general collection of tithes came to
be established in this country, and if tithes were really such a
burden as had been represented, that could hardly have been
the case. One thing was clear,—that if they made a material
change in the law as it related to tithes, the effect of it must be
to place the parson in a worse or in a better condition than be
was before ; the tithe-payer would either pay less to the poison
or he would not; if less, the difference must be handed over to
the landlord. Now, it did appear to him much better for the
tithe-payer to deal with the parson than with the landlord. In
his opinion the house might go on for eve' discussing topics of
this nature without arriving at any sound or practical conclu-
sion; they might go about here and there searching fur hidden
causes, but he could tell the country that they overlooked, or
seemed to overlook, which in effect amounted to the something,
the real cause of all the agricultural difficulties of England,—it
was neither. more nor less than the change which had taken
plaCe-in the value of money. Hear.) Therein lay the true
source of our misfortunes. 'He called upon the house sincerely
and earnestly to apply its mind add attention to the real reme-
dies of which that evil admitted, and not to waste its own ener-
gies and disappoint the public expectation with futile attempts
to administer to a disease that admitted of mily one cure.
Lord GEORGE LENNOX defended the conduct of his brother,
the Duke of Richmond, against the charges brought against
him by Mr. Cobbett, which he said were utterly groundless.
Mr. CLAY thought the farmer should be relieved from any
burden that pressed peculiarly upon land. Ile was favourable
to the payment of the expenses of gaols and prosecutions by
the state, as it Would be the means of bringing the government
acquainted with the state of crime in every part of the country.
Sir R. PEEL bore testimony to the high character of the Duke
of Richmond, and expressed his conviction that Mr. Cobbett
did not understand his objects. As to the poor law bill he could
only say that lie felt some such measure was necessary, and was
not surprised that it had occasioned some local heats and dissa-
tisfaction. As to the commutation of tithes he hoped the noble
lord (Russell) would not persevere in his intention of handing
that matter over to a select committee. It was difficult to legis-
late on this subject, and he would rather the noble lord would
say that he was not prepared to legislate this session, but that
government would apply their minds to it, than delegate their
authority to a partial body. With respect to the subject of taxa-
lion, he would not now be a party to raising any hopes in the
breasts of the agriculturists which, as a minister, he would not
have felt himself justified in encouraging. From the limited
amount of the available surplus he doubted if' any relief could
be granted to the agriculturists without detrjment to the public

'IIIE LI Y NR.PO

service. He was decidedly. of- opiniOn: that there was a far
.greater chance relieving them by the maintenance of public
credit and confidence than by the direct reduction of any parti.
cular burden: -Ile tho-Ught- their course should be steadily to
reduce the interest of the public debt ; this would be beneficial
to all interests in the state. (Hear, hear.) There was a tel'ef.
which. he intended to-give the landed interest, bad he continued
in office, this session which would have been important, the
church rate. To this rate he thought personal property did not
fairly contribute. He had calculated on relieving the agricul-
turists to-the extent of £550,000. As to the ordinary local ex-
penditure he was not disposed to take it out of the hands of the
country gentlemen, thinking that limits should be placed in
centralization. An alteration of the present system would in-
crease the patronage of government and swell out the general
expenses. But there was an item of local taxation, the ex-
penses of criminal justice, 'which he believed might. be benefi-
cially transferred. If his noble friend would take his (Sir R.
Peel's) advice, having succeeded in his object, and obtained an
assent to his principle on the part of the crown, he would let the
Chancellor of the Exchequer determine the amount of available
surplus, and bring forward a plan for the relief of local taxation,
reserving to himself hereafter the right of preferring any other
specific plans. He trusted his noble friend would take this
course; if not, he (Sir R. Peel) could not acquiesce in the re-
solution he had moved, which pledged the house to objects
which must excite expectations on the part of the agriculturists,
in whose distress he _sympathized, but which' he was not willing
to aggravate, as he thought must be the case, by exciting hopes
which, consistently with public credit, could not be fulfilled.
Mr. SPRING RICE agreed entirely in what had fallen from
Sir R. Peel, and assured the Marquis of Chandos that it not re-
quired his motion to induce government to render any possible
relief to the agricultural interests. The Danish claims and the
claims of the merchants of Dublin for the losses they sustained
by fire would leave a less surplus than had beets calculated upon.
Since the peace taxes to the amount of £8,356,000, bearing on
agriculture, had been taken off. Supposing further taxes were
taken off how would that affect the corn law question when it
came under discussion, the grant in favour of them being the
taxes to which agriculture is now subject. The right hon.
gentleman concluded by saying that he could not agree to the
address to the crown, because it presumed that some interposi-
tion was necessary to induce ministers to relieve the agricul-
tural interest, which, on the contrary, they were anxious to du.
After a few words from Sir Charles Burrell, Colonel Sib-
thorn, and Mr. O'Connell,
The Marquis of CHANDOS replied.—He had newer antici-
pated the possibility of being able to please both parties in the
terms of a. motion like the present, but he should feel it to be
his bounden duty to put the present question to the vote of the
house to-night. When he had submitted his motion for the
repeal of the malt tax as a means of agricultural relief, he had
been met with the declaration that such a measure would ruin
the country in a week; he had been quarrelled with on that
occasion, because his motion was too specific, and now, when
he submitted a more general motion, which last year had been
defeated only by a majority of 16, he was told that it was too
general, and the proposition of agricultural relief ought to be
snore specific. He had but one duty to perform by his consti-
tuents and the country at large, and whatever might be the
result of the present motion he should leave the house with the
consciousness that he had done his best to discharge that duty.
He regretted that some of those who before had supported him
had manifested an inclination to withdraw that support on the
present ocCasion. If he should be defeated, he should now, de
plore it, because it would manifest the impossibility of making
an impression on this house favourable to the farmers of this
country..;, - • -
The house then divided, when there appeared for the resolu-
tion 150—for the amendment 211—majority 61.
The-other orders of the day were then disposed of, arid the
house adjourned at a quarter to two o'clock.