The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-15 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

bullied, because an hon. gentleman might imagine that proper
deference was not paid to his abilities and station. If the noble
lord (Althorp) would stay in the house till to-morrow night, he
(Col. Davies) would stop with him.
Mr. FERGUS O'CONNOR complained that while members on
the opposite side were listened to with the greatest attention,
those coinciding with him in opinion met with nothing but in-
terruption.
Lord ALTHORP hoped that the hon. gentleman did not sup-
pose that the interruption proceeded from his (Lord Althorp's)
side. He should be very glad if the house would allow the hon.
member to continue, but he must declare that he should feel it
to be his duty to resist any proposition for an adjournment of
the debate. (Hear, hear.) It was necessary that the question
should be settled if they expected to get on with business at all.
Mr. MAURICE O'CONNELL would beg of his honourable friend
not to press the question of adjournment, but trusted that the
house would allow Irish members to make their statements fairly
also. (Loud cries of go on.)
Mr. LALOR then resumed, and argued that the report ought
to be attended to. He should propose voluntary associations
for the purpose of insuring peace, but by the present measure
of coercion something like quiet might be produced, crime
might appear to be repressed, but it would soon be seen that
there was nothing' certain in these appearances. (Hear, hear.)
He trusted that the house would pause before it consented to
pass that b --y bill against his unfortunate country, and not
lead them to suppose that they had nothing to expect from Eng-
land but coercion and bad laws. (Question, question.)
Mr. MAURICE O'CONYELL observed that the present distur-
bances were caused entirely by the bill of the right hon. Secre-
tary for Ireland. He had been forewarned that the results of
it would be as they have since turned. The hon. member
remarked upon the want of consistency in giving a preference
to courts martial instead of deputing English lawyers, who
must be better acquainted with the nature of criminal cases
than a subaltern just out of the Military College. The hope of
reward is applicable to both. He insisted that ministers had
shown that personal feelings had guided them ; that it was
party feeling against the hon. member for Dublin. After some
observations of this description the hon. member observed that
in 1830 England had been disturbed, but such measures were
not thought of. In Hants 600 persons had been tried, and 246
transported. The hon. member concluded amidst loud cries of
question and withdraw.
The gallery was then cleared for a division.
The house then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
For the amendment B4

Majority
On our return to the gallery we found that Lord Althorp had
moved the committee on the bill, and
Mr. O'CONNELL was addressing the house. The hon. and
learned gentleman said that the real battle on the bill would
take place in the committee. He concluded by moving as an
amendment that the bill be committed on Friday next.
Lord ALTHORP said he had heard no reason given by the
hon, and learned member for his amendment. (Hear, hear.)
It was the duty of the supporters of the bill to guard against
unnecessary delay, and he should, therefore, feel it his duty to
vote against the amendment of the hon. and learned gentleman.
Mr. H. GRATTAN contended that the house ought not to go
into committee on this bill at so late an hour of the night. The
assizes were now going on in Ireland, and the result would
show that this bill would not be required. The opinion of the
Irish judges, and the result of the assizes, would both be at va-
riance with the opinion of the noble lord.
Mr. HOME said, that his Majesty's ministers were of course
justified in pressing this measure forward with as little delay as
possible. It was, however, too late now to go into committee
on the bill, and he therefore suggested that the bill be com-
mitted on Wednesday next.
Mr. SHEIL said that the noble lord (Allhorp) had given a
distinct pledge to the Irish members that the bill should not be
committed when the second reading took place. It was
.quite
clear that the noble lord would have sufficient opportunity of
carrying the bill through its future stages, and it was therefore
most unreasonable to press for the committal of the bill to-
night.
Lord ALTHORP said he should have no objection to adopt the
suggestion of the hon. member for Middlesex, and fix the com-
mittee for Wednesday next.
The motion of Mr. Hume was then agreed to, and the com-
mittee stands for Wednesday.
Mr. HALL gave notice that, in the committee, he should move
an amendment on the ninth clause of the bill, to this effect :
"That the Lord-Lieutenant should not have the power of in-
terposing his veto against meetings taking :place for the pur-
pose of petitioning parliament and other legitimate objects."
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
house adjourned at half-past one'clock.
TUESDAY.

The house was occupied till 5 o'clock in ballotting for a
conimittee to try the merits of the petition against the return
for the borough of Ennis.
Mr. HALL presented a petition from Monmouth for an amend-
ment of its corporation laws;_ from the same place for a repeal
of the Septennial Act; and from Newport for a repeal of the
assessed taxes.
Captain BERKELEY gave notice, that he should on the 25th
inst., submit to the house a motion for providing the reporters
with accommodation in the gallery, or other part of the house ;
and that they should be amenable to such regulations as the
house may think fit.

LIVERPOOL.-BRIBERY.

Lord J. RUSSELL rose to state the mode of proceeding with
respect to the appointment of a committee to inquire into the
corrupt practices of certain electors of the borough of Liver-
pool. As the house had already agreed to the appointment of
a committee, and as the grounds of its appointment had been
more than once submitted to its consideration, it would not be
necessary for him again to repeat them. The motion with which
he would conclude was one of great importance as a constitu-
tional precedent; it being in degree a revival of a mode of
inquiry which had been found by our ancestors to be productive
of great benefit. The house was aware that the complaints
against the returns fur elections were, till the passing of the
Grenville Act, referred to a committee of privileges, to inquire
and report upon. There were many instances of this mode of
proceeding posterior to the revolution, of which a memorable
one was the active part taken by Sir Edward Seymour against
the Shepherds, for which (having proved bribery and corrup-
tion against those individuals on four elections) he received the li
formal thanks of the house—the Speaker, as its organ on the
occasion, telling him that the eminent military and naval ser-
vices of his ancestors were far exceeded in value by his efforts
to rescue the character of the house from unworthy suspicions.
This mode of proceeding, however, fell into disuse on the pass-
ing of the Grenville Act, and the result has been that very
many flagrant instanees of bribery and corruption have been
compromised and carefully concealed from the public. (Hear,
hear.) It was not a rare occurrence in the case of two persons
having contested a borough, that the successful candidate—that
is, the person returned, no matter by what foul means,—should
pay a certain sum to the unsuccessful one. In the case of Gram-
pound, for example, which came under his own knowledge,
£7OOO was thus paid after a committee had declared the return
-valid. Instead of an inquiry at the bar of the house, of which
they had had some recent instances, and which were invariably
desultory and vague, and in which it was difficult to separate
truth from falsehood, he would propose that the inquiry should
be made by a committee, the mode of .forming which was the
special object of his motion. The hon. member for Wilts (Mr.
Benett), who had taken so active a part in the present inquiry,
proposed that the committee should be named by the pro-
poser. He, however, could not approve of that mode, and
would propose instead that the committee should consist of 13
persons, to be chosen by lot, instead of 11, the number of an
election committee ; and that instead of 33 to be chosen by lot,
as on ordinary election committees, that but 21 persons should
be so chosen, from which two persons, to be named by the
house (Mr. Benett and Lord Sandon, as the persons most in-
terested,) and who would also be members of the committee,
should have the power of striking off four names each, thus re-
ducing the actual number to 13. This power he would give to
the two hon. members to be thus named by the house, as they
would not have the assistance of counsel. The mode of pro-
ceeding, principle, &c.,,he would afterwards embody in a dis-
tinct act of the legislature, as a precedent and guide for future
similar inquiries. It would be needless for him to dwell upon
the salutary effects of such an inquiry in preserving the charac-
ter of the house, and holding out a punishment to abuses of the
constituent purity of election. Neither did he say that only an
efficient remedy should be adopted as a precedent. The noble
•lord concluded with moving, that two individuals to be named
by the house, and 21 to be chosen by lot from those answering
to their names, with such exemptions as the house might think
fit (to be afterwards reduced to 13, in the manner just speci-
fied) should be a committee to inquire into and report upon
the corrupt practices at the election of members for the borough
of Lfverpool.
Mr. WasoN conceived, the mode proposed by the noble lord
of electing the committee wus improper, in giving either party
the power of striking off members.
Mr. O'CONNELL agreed with the hon'. member, and would
second an amendment to the effect of having the committee al-
together chosen by ballot. The proposed mode would be justly
liable to the charge of partiality, besides inefficiency. As to
the principle of the noble lord's motion, it was perfectly unex-