The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-08-28 00:00:00

THE DUKE OF CUMBERLAND.

(From the Standard of Monday.)
We have received the following important communication at
a late hour. We beiieve that our version states faithfully in
substance the purpose and the motives of the Illustrious Pribee
from whom it emanates, but we are not sure that we have not
misprinted some words, of an extremely difficult manuscript,
received almost as we were going to press. We are very doubt-
ful whether the word printed distieet, at the close of the para-
gtapb, ought not to be district instead of distinct:—
" TO THE MEMBERS OF THE LOYAL ()RANGE
INSTITUTION, &C. &C. &C.
Having learned through the especial information of the
Deputy Grand Master of England and Wales that owing to
acknowledged indiscretion and negligence on.his non part, and
a like indiscretion EH' negligence as he reports on the part 04.
other officers of the Orange institution, many grants of warrants,
or renewals of former grants have, without my knowledge, and
contrary to my declared determination, been issued front time
to tiling, iu gontruventittu if- the ..ordeta...ll4.l.ife.illtisar,isine.--
tiocumaruVra•rhief, his lloyal.l-lighoess the Duke of York,
this instrument is signed by me, aucl countersigned by the
Deputy Grand Master of the Orange Institution-i England
and Wales, for the purpose of declaring that all warrants held
by any persons in any regiment belonging to his Majesty's
service must henceforth be considered as null and void. It
having been further notified to me by the Deputy Grand Mas-
ter of England and Wales that an irregulaiityinconsisientwith
the due-construCtion.of law has, by his oversight, been allowed
to creep into the published rules and regulations of the society,
by which district Lodges were acknowledged to exist, instead
of district warrants issued to individuals—

"This is also to require a special meeting of the Grand
Lodge, at No. 9, Portman-square, on Tuesday, September 1,
at eleven in the tbreuoon, to correct such mistake.
" EItNES'I', Grand Master.
(Witness) " KEN\ ON, Deputy Grand
"Aug. 24, 1835. " Master."

Sir Charles Wolseley, ci-devant M.P. and Legislatorial Attor-
ney for Birmingham, and one of the boasted Grauchi of the Ba-
rouetage, was convicted by the Staffordshire Magistrates, en
Siturday, of an assault on one of his servants.
P 01.15111 SNi*INDLING AND. SUPEFISTITION.—At the late Gal-
tray Assiies the Rev. T. Mlnerheney brought an 'action to re-
cover £10t) from Mr. James Breene, of I)erryshane, county
Clare, the amount of a lode passed by him for the purpose of
professing his daughter a nun in the convent of Liffurd. near
F.nuis i—to Mrs. Lob), the mother abbess of which concern he
had paid on the same account £2OO in cash- His daughter, it ap-
pears, died of consumption in the convent at or near the tone of
taking the black veil. The Jury found there was no consideration
for the note, and returned a verdict for the defendant with (id.
costs.

A priest was one day attending a soldier on his deathbed, in
one of the hospitals in Lisbon, when o!)serving a drummer in
the same ward, whom he took for an invalid, he exhorted him
to join with them in prayer. '• Thank'e said the hero of the
drum-stick, "1 do nut require it, the doctor tolls mo I am get-
ting better."
WILLS OF SHAKSPEARE, MILTON, AND NAPOLEON BONA-
PA aTE.—Tile last wills and testaments of the three greatest men
et- at Doctor's Commons. In the will of the Bard of
soefetin,utdoegrenit,ages are tied up in onesheet of foolscap and may be
Avon is an iuterlitreation in his own hand-writing "I give unto
my wife 'my brown best bed with the furniture," it is proved by
8ry11e,.22d July, 1616. The will of the Minstrel UT
Paradise is a nuucupative one, taken by his daughter, the great
poet being blind. The will of Napoleon is signed in a bold style
of hand-writing; the codicil, on the contrary, written shortly
before his death, exhibit the then weak state of his body.
TwENTT-THIILE PERSONS Potsomsn.—A, most painful inter-
est has been excited at Gislinghanr, near Botesdale, by the dis-
covery that 23 individuals have been suffering from the effects
of poison—arsenic, mixed with flour, which was made up into
bread. The parties who partouk of the bread were industrious
inhabitants of Gislingliam, and their families. Inquests have
been held on such of the pereous who have from time to time
eaten of the bread and died, and verdicts returned to the effect
that the deceased came to their death by arsenic mixed with
bread, but how Qr by whom it was so mixed is unknown. Sus-
picion attaches to an individual.
Criuticit Disclet.lNe.—On Monday night Mr. 11 Fleetwood
gave notice that next session he should move for leave to bring
in atill to declare, alter, auffatnend, the law relating to certain
matters of church diciplioe, a-ff more especially. to regulate the
conduct of all persons in holy orders, as regar4 offences com-
mitted by them in their spiritual character; to-provide for the
better preveution of all matters tending to produce that scandal •
iu the church which the misconduct of spiritual persons may at
any time occasion; to provideler the better eurouragement and
protection of ad those who may be distinguished by exemplary
conduct; and to faciliate the removal front spiritual or clerical
offices of all who may have been rendered unfit to till them, in
conseqence of mural, intellectual, or physical, capacity, as well
as to make adequate provision for those who, without any de-
linquency on their part, may be unloved out of the feuds of such
benefice or curacy as they way previously have been possessed.
hen Lord Brougham mounted
theCtivi ou,R,lcsauckP RI
tEI FlB;kllo7withNT .—When
ta't disititerested generosity so pe-
culiar to whiggory, he proclaimed, through the public press,
his intention of putting all livings under £21.10 per annum in
his gift as chancellor, at the disposal of the bishops, to be be-
stowed on deserving curates; and we all reinenther how the
Whig journals trumpeted froth this proclamation us a sample of
great th ngs that were to be effected by the reform. cabinet: So
much fur c, e professior. Now for the practice. The late Bi-
shop of Bristol, upon the faith of this bit of whiggerv, made an
an apleicatiou in favour of the assistant curate of Weymouth,
a worthy man with nine children; but after waiting. in vain
expressing his disap-
pointment, dies. The corrupt and ,heanvr addedle a handsome testi-
elhoreri
sap.no
oalrt:ehs
:pill
testi-
monial 117
to
nor(
ti eh,
tshosmt
job-
bing tories enter once more into office. The living of Brad- '
pole, Dorsetshire, the gft of the chancello', becomes vacant.
The poor curate having nu personal knowlev.,;e of Lard Lynd•
burst, nor any friend to make interest for him, forwarded the
bishop's letter to his lordship, and eceived a ieply, that the '
recommendation of the late Dr. Gray could not be neglected;
and as a just tribute to the Bishop's memory, he enclosed the '
presentation of the living. Suet) is the difference between pro- I.
tessiou and practice,—Bristol Journal.

COAL PIT AcctnENT.—A distressing and rather singular
circumstance took place on the evening of Thursday, 13th inst.
at one of the waste coal pits, near Clackmanan, in which a
collier's lamp was suspended by a chain lions the top, and
burning at a considerable dePth, for the purpose of drawing off
the foul air, and we regret to state, moved fatal to an unloau •
nate man belonging to Perth, who travelled with a basket sel-
ling small tin wares. It •is supposed that he was under the
influence of liquor, and, that wandering about in that state,
came upon the pit, and, that on seeing the lamp burning, some
unaccountable illusion had induced him to take off and lay aside
his coat and hat, and other articles, at the pit mouth, and then
go down by the lamp chain, which he had accomplished till he
reached the burning coals,.and not being able to get up again,
had been forced to let himself fall, in order to avoid being buined.
As the pit was not very deep, be would not have far to fall, and
he had creeped a considerable way from the bottom into one of
rooms, where be was found the next morning quite dead, with
his face and hands a good deal burned. Thu cradling of the
pit was also on fire,which no doubt was occasioned by the dis-
turbing of the lamp, and it no doubt also led to the discovery of,
the ma'n .—Stirlieg Journal.

.::.

. .
-

Empt eta' Parliament.

HOUSE OF LORDS.-MONDAY.

A great number of petitions were presented to the house
Among them the Marquis of WESTMEATH presented one from
the Rev. Sir Harcourt Lees, of Blackrock, in the county of
Dublin, calling upon their lordships to appoint a select com-
mittee:before which be pledin Ireland
himself to prove that a papisti-
cal conspiracy existed lreland against the protestant re-
ligion.

CHURCH OF IRELAND.
The house. on the niotion of the Marquis of WESTI4EATII

vent into committee on this bill

The preamble was postponed, and the first Clause, abolish-
ing compositions for-tithes, with certain exceptions, was agreed

On the second clause, charging lands subject to tithe compo-
sitions with a rent-charge equal to seven-tenths of such compo-
sitions payable by the_party having the first estate of inheritance,
The Marquis of WESTMEATH said that although he could
not sanction the principle of this clause, he would not move
an amendment.

The ad, 4en, sth, and-Gth clauses were agreed to.
On the 7th clause, which places the rent charges under the
management of the cot missioners of land revenues,
The Duke 6f NITELI, IN GTON objected to the clause, on the

ground that it deprived the clergy of the rent-charges, and
handed them over to commissioners to be managed by the
woods and forests. These commissioners were to pay the
amount on receiving orders from the ecclesiastical commission-

era. He disapproved of this plau—he saw every reason to ob-
ject to the disappropriation of the rent-charges from the hands
of the clergy, and the appropriation of their property to his
majesty, because the effect of such a proceeding must be to
snake the clergy stipendiary on the crown. (Hear, hear.) He
thOught it a great advantage that the clergy should be quite in-
dependent of the crown in their enjoyment of this species of
property. (Hear, hear.) The object of the amendment which
he meant to propose in the clause was to leave the collection of

the rent charges in the bands of the ecclesiastical commission-
ers, and to avoid appropriating the property, as at present, in
his majesty, for the purpose of having it collected by the com-
missioners of woods and forests, and by them finally handed
over to the ecclesiastical commissioners. He was fully aware
that in consequence of this arrangement the clergy would
suffer vat ions and considerable, disadvantages, but he preferred
those disadvantages to the inconvenience attendant on the plan
°fallowing their revenues to go into the hands of the woods and
forests. -In saying this he spoke not only his'own opinion, but
what he believed to be-the sentiment of the entire body of the
clergy at large, more particularly in Ireland. He moved to
omit in the second line the words," his majesty," for the pur-
pose of inserting these words, " the ecclesiastical commission-
ers of Ireland." The clause, as amended, would run thus,—
" And be it enacted, that the said rent-charges shall be vested
is and payable to the ecclesiastical commissioners of Ireland,"
&e.

After a short discussion the amendment was withdrawn.

The Bth clause, empowering the commissioners of land re-
venue, with consent of the treasury, to snake regulations for the
collection of rent-charges, was agreed to.
On the 9th clause, ich admits the revision of composition
.for tithes,
Lord ELLENBOROUGH, thinking this clause indefensible
in point of principle, called upon their lordships to discard it
altogether.
This clause ~vas discussed and rejected.

Clauses.ll to 21 inclusive, referring to and consequent upon
the provisions of the preceding clause, 10, struck oat, were put
and negatived without a division.
Clauses 22 up to, 39 inclusive were, after several verbal
amendments proposed by Lord PLUNKETT and Lord PITi-
GERALD, agreed to, and, as amended, ordered to stand part of
the bill.

On clause 40, providing that the compositions should be in-
creased or diminished according to the price of corn during.the
last seven years, as compared with the prices stated in the cer-
tificate thereof, and the amount of the rent-charges calculated
accordingly, and a little variation according to the price of corn
should take place every year in the amount of rent-charges
being put,

Lord ELLENBOROUGH proposed to omit this clause, on the
ground that it would operate in direct violation of the contracts
entered into under the tithe acts respectively introduced by Mr.
Goulburn and by Lord Stanley. The contracts made for com-
position under the bill, and the amended bill of Mr. Goulburn,
had been respected iu the measure of Lord Stanley ; and; with
respect to those compositions, he trusted the government would
now be as honest as it was when the 'latter bill passed. He
should, under this feeling; move that the clause be struck out.
' On this motion the house divided—content, 126; not content,
35. Majority against the clause, 91.
Upon clause 61 being read, which enacts that upon the next
vacancy of the church of any parish in which there are not more
than 50 members of the established church, such church may be
sequestered, and no appointment of a clergyman to such church
shall be made until the Lind-Lieutenant in council shall think
fit so to direct; and that during such period of sequestration
the rents, profits, and emoluments-thereof from time to time
accruing due, and all arrears which may have accrued, shall
withotit any writ or process whatsoever be vested in and received
by the ecclesiastical commissioners, who shall have all the
remedies for the recovery thereof that bad belonged to the
incumbent,
The Earl of lIADDINGTON said he rose to call the attention
of their lordships to this clause, and to those which followed it,
to clause 88 inclusive, as parts of this bill by which a most
deadly blow was aimed at the protestant religion in Ireland.
It was his intention to move, as an amendment,- that-clauses 61
to 88, both inclusiVe, should be struck out of the bill; and, first,
he would state briefly to the house the substance. The noble
lord then read clause 61, as already given. He went on to say,
that by clause 62 it was provided that where there were no mem-
bers vi' the established church, in such parish the occasional
duty should be committed to a neighbouring minister. The
next clauses provided, that where there were any resident mi-
nister and a church or chapel, the duty might be committed
either to the neighbouring minister or to a resident curate ; bui
the next clause enacted that where there were some protestant
inhabitant,, members of the established church, but less than the
magical number of fifty, the incumbent or officiating minister
of the neighbouring parish who should perform occasional duty
in it, should receive such sum not less than £lO, and not ex-
ceeding £5O, as- the commissioners by consent of the Lord-
Lieutenant in council-should determine; but if there were no
resideut protestants, the remuneration for the occasional duty
by the neighbouring clergyman was fixed at the small sum of
£5 in the year. NV as that a fit remuneration to be offered for
the services of a gentleman and a christian minister? The next
clause was .worthy.of the serious attention of their lordships. It
provided that if ire any such parish with a less number of resi-
dent members of the established church than fifty, and where a
curate might be appointed, and where there might be no conse-
crated place of worship, a sum not exceeding £lOO should be
granted fig the erection of a place of worship, or a sum not ex-
ceeding.£ls a-year shouldhe paid for the rental or hiring of
some suitable building fur that purpose,—upon that clause he
would not offer one word of comment. By the next (the 68th)
clause, the bishop'of the diocese was to be associated with the
commissioners in providing for the spiritual wants of parishes
coming riuder.the operation of the bill ; and here he must say
that the bishop was very little mixed up with the regulations of
the bill, though it would be but natural to expect that be should
have a direct interference in all matters connected With the spi-
ritual wants of his diocese. The 69th clause authorized the
commissioners to let or demise the whole or any portion of
glebe-houses or lands of parishes coming under the operation of
the act, except such portion as aul resident curate might desire
to occupy. The 70th, 71st, and 1211, empowered the commis-
sioners to pay off charges on, and recover -sums due to, such
suppreeseu benefices, and, in case the sequestration should be
removed, to charge a portion of such charges paid off ore the
succeeding incumbent. The next clause authorised the coin-
missioners to disunite a parish having less than fifty protestont
inhabitants from, any union in which tt had been joined, and to
deal with it as a single parish, and by the next clause it was
enacted, that if the union should be maintained, the income of
the neit incumbent should be subject to such reduction its the
Lord-Lieutenant should direct with respect to the extent of duty
in those parishes of the union not containing more than fifty
Protestants., The neat clauses provided, that where perishes
were united to other parishes not contiguous they should be
disunited next vacancy; that charges on unions should be pro-
vided for, that glebe-houses or churches in disunited parishes
should nevertheless be used for purposes of union, and that no
episcopal union- should be made without notice to the ecclesias•
tics! commissioners. The 78th clause provided that incomes
derived from benefices in which divine service had not been
performed fur three years, and which were therefore sup-
pressed under the church temporalities act, should be ap-
plied to the purposes, not of that act, but of the present bill.
The next clauses provided fur the reduction of benefices of
which the revenues should be proportioned to the ecclesiastical
duty, so that no benefice should be reduced below 4'300. The
noble turd then stated the substance of the other clauses, which
were for the most part a following out in detail of the principles
of the previous clauses. The next clause to which he came was
the 8-Ith, which provided that the ecclesiastical commissioners
should pay all the moneys vested in them under the act into the
Bank of Ireland, to be there carried to a separate account,
called the " reserve fund account," out of which the various
sums and eliarieel to be paid by them under the bill were to be
defrayed, and the overplus to be paid into the consolidated fund.
thezies.toilaiiestbahluMletvitescloirgeil with tine payment of
.00,000 for the mural and religious education of the people
without,dietitrotiou. of religion. The remaining clauses pro-
vided that-the Loots Commissioners of the Treasury might lend
and advance out of the produce of the consolidated fund such
sum or sums of money as might be required for the purposes of
the bill on the credit of the reserve fund. The 88th clause re-
quired the commissioners to make an annual report of their
proceedings to parliament. Now he thought that in this ab-
stract of the clauses which he should propose to strike out their
lordships would agree with hint that there was ample matter for
serious consideration. Here were the matters of two distinct
billie and he was sure that, even if their lordships were disposed
to concur in the clauses he had just read, Which he did not be-
lieve, they would admit et least that the present bill was not
that in which they should be introduced. Those clauses went to
encumber a bill on the general principles of which, after what
had .passed that evening, it was seen that there we:every little
difference of opinion amongst their lordships, by the introduc-
tion of h. principle on which insuperable objections. were raised,
and to which he was sure the majority of that house would not
assent. He should have thought that noble lords opposite
would have rested content with the abstract principle which hail
had such an effect iu ousting their opponents from office, and
placing thensselVes in the government, and that they „would
have embodied it in a separate measure. However, he would not
then cuter into that question, but lie would call on their lord-
ship to make their stand and resist this first legislative attempt
to divert the poverty of the church to other than ecclesiastical
and protestant uses. Ile would not enter into the question of
the right of parliament. to divert property, sacred ur otherwise,
from the particular purpose for which it lead been bestowed;
but be must say that the assertion of such a right in the case of
church property involved a principle fraught with great danger
to the security of property in geneial. When he spoke of the
church, let it not be supposed that he steed there as the sup-
porter of any of its abuses—that he -stood as the supporter of
pluralities and other abuses which had crept in by time, and
-which, by the adiniSsion of the must sincere advocates of the
Church, ought to be remedied; but that was one of the reasons
'why he obi ectmlto this bill as it now stood. If noble lords oppo-
site would insist on having. a resident clergy, and each with only
one cure of souls, then it would be necessary that they should
provide a decent maintenance for those clergymen on whose
constant attendance to that cure of souls they insiSted. In that
case there would be little left after such decent piovision was
made ; but thatlittle would he made less by the other payments
which they would- have to make out of the durch revenues under
the bill. This, he repeated, .was one ground of his objection.
Now' lie did not object so much to the principle of sequestration
as to the principle ou which it was made. Pro lute vice, there
was a little limitation to the principle as to 'place and numbers;
hut that limitation slid not tend to lessen the dangerous opera-
tion of the measure. At present the place in which the
principle was to operate was confined to Ireland; hut if
they adopted that principle, the time might come when It would
be considered that it should be applied, to England also. lu the
majority of parishes in England the members or the established
church composed the greater number of the inhabitants, but
there were others in which they might and did now form the

small minority. Here then was a precedent ready made to their
hands, to be acted upon on a future occasion. The principle
was limited pro has vice, as he had said, to 50 protestants; but
what was there magical in that number that it should he always
adhered to ? Suppose the number of protestants and catholics
should be taken comparatively, and that there should be lit)
protestants and some 4010 or 5000 catholiesi the principle •
would be as applicable in that case as it would at present. But
then the bill carried with it a temptation. It promised a sur-
plus revenue to be applied to other than protestant ecclesiastical
purposes, and just the same arguments which were now used
for the operation of the bill on parishes where there were not 50
protestants, might hereafter be used to extend its operation to
cases where there were less than Ili. He understood that
there we<re, in Ireland, 2505.
A noble lord here observed thlt the number was 2105.
The Earl of HA RDINGTON said he had got the numbers 2505,
and of that number this bill wouid strike at the existence of

850, that being the number of parishes which had less than 50
resident ptotestants_ It would then leave 1645 with more than

50, but there were 9:-.;0 parishes with more than 100 protestants,
and 800 with between 50 and 100. These latter would probably
'be the next to be dealt with on the principle of the bill, in order
to satisfy those who were clamouring against the established
church. (Hear, hear.) No wonder that the success of this

measure had been received with shouts in another place—no
wonderthat it should haie been opposed by a majority of the
county members of England and Wales, and that at length its
principle should have been carried by a small majority of the
whole house, and that the number of that majority was not much
more than the numbers of the catholic members of that house
under the influence of the hon. and learned member for Dublin.
Well might a measure so carried have the effect of striking'
terror into the protestants of Ireland, and of inspiring► their op-
ponents with triumph., The noble lord, at the end of his speech,
moved that these clauses be omitted.

On the question being put as to the omission of the 61st
clause,

Lord GLENELG, on rising, said that he was deeply impressed
with the importance of the question—he did nut ask their lord-
ships to support the clauses on the ground of any co:nparison in
the numbers of catholics and protesrants ; he did not ask it on
the ground of the constitution of the church of Ireland. for he

would readily admit that a material improvement had taken
place so it within the last thirty years; for he would add that it
would be impossible to find atnong the clergy of any church
more zeal, piety, and sincerity in the discharge of their duties
than among that of the church of Ireland at the present day.
He would admit that the appropriation of a sum of money for
the particular purposes of general education was not necessarily
connected' with the arrangement as to tithes, but the general
object of both principles was the same; it was to promote the
tranquillity of Ireland—it was to rescue the church of Ireland

from the great danger with which she was now threatened. .To
secure that object h. would extend the benefits of education
throughout Irelanti, and in that respect the two measures, as
his noble friend called them, were the same. His noble friend

had admitted that there were anomalies in the church. He

(Lord Glenelg) would correct them, and improve the character
of the church in the estimation of the country. This would be
a lasting benefit to the church itself as well as to the country,
for he would admit with his noble friend, that all who desired to
continue the connexion of the two countries ought to support
the protestant established church, and it was iu the firm con-
viction that he should be doing the best for its support that he
would give his cordial.assent to the present bill. It was a fact,
which he did not think could be disputed, that the established
church hail never until within a few years been presented to the
people of Ireland in an -odious light. It was first introduced,
not so much, for the promotion of true religion, which neverthe-
less it was well calculated to do untlera most judicious instruc-
tion, as to forward secular objects. It was for a long time
changed into a political engine, and was thus exposed to the
distrust and odium of those whom under more favourable 61.7

cumstances she might have bouud to her byties of affection and
gratitude. The consequences of—this mistaken policy, and of
the invidious position in which the church had been placed,
were not easily to be removed. The first great step, however,
had been already taken in the improvement of the clergy; the
next to be taken would be to transfer the payment of tithe from
the tenant to the landlord, and this he considered would go tar
towards conciliation. The cetirse which was proposed by go-
vernment would tend not only to conciliate the goodwill of the
Roman catholics, but would give greater efficiency to the pro-
testant church. He denied that it was intended to strike any
blow at the Irish church by the mode in which it was proposed
to deal with certain of the parishes. Lord Gtenelg concluded
by saying that however auspicious our prospects might be else-
where, so long as Ireland continued in its present state this
great empire never could enjoy perfect security.
The Bishop of Lore DON had supported the measure of 1833,
because he understood at that time that it was to have been a
final measure as affecting the church of Ireland. To the pre-
sent bill he would give his most unqualified opposition. If
there was not au overwhelming necessity for it, the thing was
not required. lie was prepared to sheer that the condition of
Ireland was not essentially changed since Nal The noble lord
had said that it was necessary to pacity the people of lrkand.
Was the measure proposed to their lordships one fit for that
purpose ? The seeds of discord in Ireland were religious differ-
ences.. Was the extirpation of the protestant 'population the
mode to be adopted for appeasing them ?- General education
for the poor had been adverted to. He admitted the necessity
of a general system of education ; but he much doubted the po-
licy of supplying it entirely gratis. In this opinion, especially
as it related to Ireland, he was sustained by the concurrent
opinions of Mr. Leslie Foster, Mr. Grant, and the other gen-
tlemen who composed the education commission in that coun-
try. But if it were a boon necessary to be bestowed on the
people of Ireland, why' make the church alone liable for its ex-
penses? Why not make the landlords—the people themselves
—both classes more immediately interested in it—contribute to
.it ? It' gratuitous education were deemed absolutely necessary,
why did not the proposers of the bill rather try an experiment
already tried with some success—the appropriation of a sum of
the public money. for a certain perion ? They would then be
enabled to test their theory without destroying or impairing the
established iestitutions of the country? Whatever they might
do in that respect would he far wiser, as well as more becoming,
than to put their hands into the pocket of the church, and 'de-
fray, as they proposal to do, the entire at her expense. The
noble lord had said that it was necessary the Roman catholics
of Ireland should be pacified. • Pacified ! The noble lord had
certainly had sufficient- experience, within his own personal
knowledge, to be convinced that such a thing was impossible.
Had not every plan propokd.for that purpose signally and la-
mentably failed ? Had not every effort to restore the golden
age in that country been eminently unsuccessful? The mis-
fortune was, that nothing haying Ireland for its object was final
—nothing appertaining to that country possessed finality. He
mistook. The bill before their lordships contained a principle
of finality, but it was of a nature destructive anti annihilating to
the established church. He would make no pretensions to the
gift of Cassandra, but he would say to the house "pass this bill,
and you may add to it. Front the year 1810, or an era not more
remote, the church of Ireland ceases and determines for ever."
Pacify :lonian catholics! those who from the time ofGandolphe
to Doyle—no, he would not mention Doyle, because he was
gone to his account—but from Gandolphe to Mil-late—to
.M‘HaJe who far out-Heroded Herod, described the protestant
church as the idol of Juggernaut, as a vampire, as a blood thirsty
monster! as a badge of conquest, and as a token of servitude!
Pacify them! Would it not be the same in their eyes after the
bill should have passed as before ? Would it not be equally
obnoxious and equally to be got rid of? Would it not still be
a badge of conquest or token of servitude ? Would the extinc-
tion of seven or eight hundred parishes, and the starvation of
their clergy, 'change its character in their eyes? Or, rather.
would it nut naturally excite them to get rid of the remainder ?
Was the goodly tree of protestantism to be stripped of its
branches first and then cut down and cast into the tire, to ap-
pease them? Was the pacification of the catholics to be effected
by offering up the protestant church as a holocaust? He was
satisfied that the poor of Ireland would be much injured by the
bill—for it would deprive theta of the advantage of the only re-
sident gentry they ever enjoyed. [ln proof of this the learned
prelate read extracts from the postscript to the second pamphlet
of Mr. EneasM‘Donnell on the catholic oath ; and from a visi-
tation sermon of the late pious and exemplary' Bishop of Limer-
ick, Dr. Jebb.j The rev. prelate, in conclusion, said, my lords,
I trust I have shown, by more than one action of mine; that I
am not indisposed to adopt salutary and well-considered reforms.
But never can I consent to measures of direct spoliation, to ,
measures endangering the best interests of the whole protestant'
church. lam not in the habit of using language stronger than
the nature of the subject requires. But if terms more expres-
sive and emphatic than others could be used on the occasion, I
would avail myself of them, and implore you, my lords, by the
gratitude which you owe to that establishment under which you
imbibed your christian principles and knowledge, whose conso-
lation you delight to receive,
and whose efficacy you will expe-
rience at the parting hour of your existence-1 implore you all
non to give your consent oe a measure which must destroy the
protestant church without satisfying the poor Roman catholics;
which strikes at the ministers of God's truth without adding to
the comforts or the real advantages of those who are engaged in
the diffusion of religious instructiou of another kind ; in a word,
which it is not too much to say commences with spoliation and
sacrilege, and will end in ruin and confusion. (Loud cheering:)
The Marquis of Ceereettce it et; thought their lordships would
destroy the church if the bill were not agreed to, anti if they per-
sisted in mutilating it.
The Earl of WINCHELSEA called upon the house to resist so
destructive a measure.
The Marquis of Corevreoeiesi said that protestantismehad
direillislied in Ireland with wealth ;eel power on itsside. Seveeal
clergymen in Ireland were favour able loThe
Lord Petnexeere supported the bill and deprecated the lan-
guage used by the Bishop of London.
The Earl of RoDEN spoke in favour of the amendment.
After sonie observations front Lords Brougham, Wicklow, and
Ilatherton—
Lord Mgenounet said that the subject under consideration
having been already so fully and so frequently discussed, it was
not his intention to take up their lordships' attention on the pre-
sent occasion for more than a very few moments. Indeed, lie
would not have addressed them at all at the hour at which they
were then arrived were it net that he thought it right noble lords
opposite should clearly understand the situation in which they
stood—that their eyes should be open to it, and that they should
he aware fully of. the consequences of it; and he further thought
it right to ask them to consider that which had been already so
ably and so forcibly put before them, tramely, the situation in
which they were afiout to leave the clergy of Ireland by the vote
to which he was afraid they seemed inclined to come. ( Hear,
hear.) He consioered that the two parts of the present bill had
been decided liv the resolution of the House of Commons in the
early part of ttie present session. They. had both been tested
by the reason and common sense of the House of Commons,
they belonged entirely to one another, and in his opinion it was
utterly impossible to settle the one satisfactorily to the people of
Gres[ Britain without at the same time also settling the other.
(Cheers.) Such were his opinions, and such he believed were
without exception the opinions of the colleagues with whom he
had the honour to act. (Cheers from the ministerial benches.)
He had now but a rely few words left to address to their lord-
ships. The noble lord-who began the present debate had been
pleased to say that the opposition peers were determined to do as
they liked with the present hill—to alter it, to separate it, to
curtail it, in short, to treat it in every sense as they pleased; and
having done so, he was further pleased to intimate that all the
responsibility of its rejection elsewhere would rest with himself
and his colleagues. (Cheers from the opposition benches.) To
this he answered by stating that if the noble lords opposite
should succeed in carrying the approaching vote, and if they left
the clauses under consideration out of the bill, he should not be
a party to proceeding-, any farther with it, and that he should
feel altogether disinclined to having anything to do with the
sending of it back to the House of Commons in such a shape
'as would compel that branch of the legislature, both on the point
of form and principle,. to reject it. (Loud and prolonged cheer-
ing from the ministerial benches.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON felt called upon to say one word
in comment upon what had just fallen from the noble viscount
at the head of the government. Their lordships had heard the
noble viscount state his intention, in case those with whom he
(elle Duke of Wellington) acted should succeed in carrying the
motion for the rejection of the ciati'e under consideration from
the bill, and they had also heard from the noble and learned lord
opposite a statement—a very exaggerated statement he believed
it to be—(hear)—of the consequences of the vote to which he
thought they were about ao come upon those unfortunate per-
sons who were the objects of the bill; but, notwithstanding the
menaces of the noble visccunt, and notwithstanding the ex-