The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-06-25 00:00:00

mar

what occurred in the course of the discussion. There could, the
noble earl must have been aware, be no objection to the mo-
tion. There could lit no difference between them as to the pro-
duction of the account for which he moved, yet, as if it were a
motion to which the government was decidedly opposed,
the noble earl had largely availed himself of the opportu-
nity which it gave of invective against the administration.
The gross amount of arrears now due to the clergy for tithes
was £103,033. A certain amount of claims had, however, been
withdrawn by the clergy themselves, and the sum was thus di-
minished to £104,280. I'he amount of arrears for which pro-
clamation had been issued was £83,191. There remained, then,
a sum of £20,900 odd, for which no proclamation or proceed-
ings had been issued. This included the account for 132 pa-
rishes. There had been collected altogether £12,000, at an
expense (we think Earl Grey, who, at the conclusion of his
speech, was almost inaudible, said) of £7767. This statement
would convince their lordships how completely the act of last
session had failed in its operation, and would impress upon
them the necessity of considering how the distress of the clergy,
arising from the non-payment of their dues, could be best re-
lieved, how their just rights could be best consulted, and how
that object could be effected at the least detriment to the other
parties connected with this great question. He could assure
the house that the members of Government had unanimously
agreed to this measure, and he trusted that it when it came re-
gularly before their lordships, it would also meet with their
unanimous consent. He trusted that no party feelings, no
petty animosities, no personal interests would prevent their
lordships from giving to it that favourable consideration which,
in his conscience, he believed it to deserve, and he implored
them, if they were dissatisfied with it, either to substitute for it.
some measure that was more effectual, or to join with him in
making it as perfect as possible. To the motion at present
before the house no objection could be offered ; and, having
said that, he had no desire to trouble their lordships with any
further observations at present. (Hear, hear !)
After some further discussion the motion was agreed to.
LOCAL COURTS BILL.

On the order of the day being read that the house resolve into
a committee on the above bill,
Lord LYNDHURST rose, and expressed his opinion that their
lordships were not in a position to proceed further with the bill
at the present moment. The bill referred to certain schedules,
six or seven in number, which had never been explained to their
lordships; and it appeared to him to be absolutely necessary,
before another step was taken, that those schedules should be
printed, in order that they might have an opportunity of pro-
perly considering them. He thought that this, connected with
the late hour of the evening, formed a sufficient reason for de-
ferring the committee.
The LORD CHANCELLOR was quite sure that if his noble friend
had attended to the nature of the schedules to which he hail
alluded, he would have seen that they did not in the slightest
degree interfere with the principle of the bill, to which their lord-
ships had already agreed, and they could not therefore oppose
any obstacle to the house resolving into committee. One of
them related to fees, and he believed that, according to the uni-
form practice of I arliament, that schedule must be originated
in the House of Commons; another related to the form in which
judgments in court were to be delivered; and a third laid down
certain formulas of proceeding. The schedule containing them
might be called a "directing schedule," as it merely suggested
the propriety of observing a certain course of proceeding. He
was quite aware that it would be incumbent upon him to explain
the nature of those schedules in the committee, but he confi-
dently asserted that not one portion of the principle of the bill
was involved in them—indeed, if their lordships chose to omit
the words in the body of the bill referring to them, they might be
wholly left out, and the principle of the bill not in the slightest
degree impaired. He therefore hoped that their lordships would
not postpone going into committee, since the consideration of
the schedules need only be postponed until they were proposed.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought it quite necessary that the
schedule of fees should be proposed, though it might be expe-
dient to strike it out afterwards. He was also of opinion that
an account of the salaries of the officers who would be created
by the bill should be given. He had heard very alarming state-
ments with respect to the extent to which the public would be
burdened by the enactment of this measure. He heard that the
expense would not be less than £250,000 or £300,000 a-year.
He thought that the expense which the measure would entail
on the country ought to form a very material ingredient in their
lordships' consideration.
The bill was then considered in committee pro formd, and
various new clauses were added.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE was understood to say that he would, on
the re-commitment of the bill, propose that barristers of five
years' standing be eligible for judges of the local courts.
The house then resumed, and the bill, as amended, was or-
dered to be printed.—Adjourned.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, JUNE 21.

The gallery was opened at a quarter past twelve o'clock
Sir W. INGILBY gave notice, that in the next session of Par-
liament he should move a total repeal of the duty on malt; and
also, that in the course of the next session he should move a
resolution declaring that it is expedient, and essential for the
morality of the country, that the bishops should no longer have
seats in the House of Peers.
Mr. WALLACE gave notice of certain amendments to the
Sheriffs' Court of Scotland Bill.

Lord SANDON presented a petition from Liverpool against the
General Registry Bill; also petitions from Eccleshall for the
better observance of the Sabbath-day, and complaining of the
low price of spirits; also a petition from 9(X) holders of small
tenements in Liverpool against the Rating of Small Tenements
Bill; also a petition from certain merchants at Liverpool re-
specting claims upon the Danish government ; and a petition
from the merchants, bankers, awl traders of Liverpool, in fa-
vour of the Public Notaries Bill.
The Speaker left the chair at a few minutes before 3 o'clock.

The Speaker resumed the chair at a quarter past 5 o'clock.
A message was brought from the Lords for copies of the re-
ports and evidence of the committees on East India affairs in
1831 and 1832.—Ordered.

• Mr. BAINBRIDGE moved for various returns relative to the
amount of bank-notes and post bills issued by the Bank during
the last three years.
The Marquis of CHANDOS brought up the report and minutes
of evidence of the committee on the Sale of Beer Bill, and ex-
pressed a hope that ministers would not allow, the session to pass
over without the introduction of a measure to remedy the evil of
the existing. system.
Mr. G. LAMB feared it wits rather late in the session to do
anything this year: he admitted that the evil of the existing
system was apparent from the evidence taken before the com-
mittee, and promised that government would take the subject
into consideration, with a view to the discovery of a remedy, at
the earliest period possible.
Mr. SLANEY thought the government bound to take the sub-
ject up without delay.
The Marquis of CHANDOS presented petitions against the
Irish Church Temporalities' Bill froni the archdeacon and clergy
of the archdeaconry of Buckingham, and from the parish of St.
Nicholas, Cork. .
Mr. WILBRAHAM gave notice of a resolution in committee
on the East India Company's charter relative to the company's
monopoly of salt.
Mr. H UME brought in a bill to amend the law relative to the
repair of churches and chapels.
Read a first time, to be read a second time on Wednesday
next.

Mr. STANLEY moved that the house at its rising be adjourned
till Monday.
Mr. FINN asked the right hon. Secretary for Ireland whether
there was any truth in the rumour that Government had con-
sented that the money to be realized by the sale of church pro-
perty should should be exclusively appropriated to ecclesi-
astical purposes.
Mr. LITTLETON suggested to the hon. member, that the pro-
per time to put his question would be when the clause relating
to the subject should be brought forward.
On the motion of Mr. STANLEY, the house resolved itself in-
to a committee on the

CHURCH TEMPORALTIES (IRELAND) BILL.
On clause 132 being read,
Lord OXMANTOWN moved as an amendment the insertion of
words to the effect that the commissioners to be appointed un-
der this act, in valuing the bishops' leases in Ireland, should
act on the same practice which had been hitherto pursued by
the archbishops and bishops of th'at country in granting re-
newals.

The subsequent clauses, up to 147, were then severally put
and agreed to, with a few verbal amendments, with the excep-
tion of clauses 136 and 138, which were struck out. On the
proposal of the 147th clause, which relates to the application of
moneys arising from the sale of perpetuities,
Mr. STANLEY said, that the committee had now come to the
consideration of the clause upon which considerable objections
had been expressed, not only on the part of hon. members on
the opposite side of the house, but on that of his own particular
friends;—he alluded to the circumstance of the alienation of
the church ploperty. He, however, did not consider the ap-
plication of money proposed to be made by the present bill in
the light of an alienation of the property of the church. (Hear,
hear.) He thought a distinction might fairly be drawn between
church property and that of private individuals, the first being
a species of property in posse, the latter a bone Ale property.
He was, however, well aware that a strong feeling existed not
only within the walls of the house against the clause in ques-
tion, as containing an enactment for the alienation of church
property. (Hear.) This being the case, it became a question
whether it would be expedient or desirable, when the conflicting
nature of opinion on the subject was considered, to apply the
surplus fund accruing to the credit of the commissioner to other
than purposes connected with the church establishment. Now,
what he proposed to do was this, to move the omission from the
bill of the 147th clause altogether, and, at the same time, to
strike out from the 54th clause the exception which related to
the perpetuity purchase fund. This alteration, he believed,
would leave the question of the surplus fund precisely where it
was at present. It would be recollected, that a material alter-
ation had been effected in the bill since its introduction,—he
meant the exemption of incumbents from the payment of tax,
they having no present fund provided for them except that
caused by the reduction of the sees of Derry and Waterford.
Even in two years it was improbable that the fund in question
could meet the objects to which it had been proposed to apply
it. He earnestly entreated the house to act iu that spirit of
conciliation by which alone it was possible to carry any_great
measures.

Mr. HUME assured ministers it was more in sorrow than in
anger he beheld the picture which they, exhibited at thatmoment.
(I-fear, hear.) At the time the coercion bill was under discus-
sion, the noble Chancellor of the Exchequer, who he was sorry
was not present, pledged himself, and the right San. gentleman
repeated the pledge, to stand or fall by the Church Reform. Bill.
If they wished to stand before the country as men of consistency
and honour, they were bound to redeem the pledge. The right
hon. Secretary for the Colonies had not met the question fairly.
The great principle of the bill, which obtained for it his support,
and he believed also that of the great majority of the house, was
that which admitted that the property of the church was public
property, and might be dealt with as Parliament thought fit.—
(Hear, hear.) Ministers recommended the bill upon that
principle, and the noble Chancellor of the Exchequer said that
at no very remote period Parliament would have £3,000,000 at
its disposal. The right hon. gentleman now attempted to change
his sentiments; but they were written down—the people of
England knew thatthey had been expressed, and the attempt to
deny them exhibited a lamentable example of want of firmness
and want of ioub;ie faith. Tor several months the public, rely-
ing on the pledges of ministers, had been looking forward con-
fidently to the carrying of the bill.with the.impertant principle
which chiefly recommended it to their favour, and now they
shrunk from the attempt. They had abandoned their duty to
their country, their duty to their King; they had forfeited their
own honour; they had given up all in order to preserve their
places. (" Hear, hear," and "No.") He trusted, however,
that the majority of that house would express their sense of the
manner in which they had mocked and duped them during the
last four months by rejecting the bill altogether. (Hear.)
After a lengthened discussion, the committee divided, when
there appeared,
Ayes for the clause
Noes

Majority in favour of ministers 132
On our return to the gallery we found the house engaged in
discussing the •
SEPARATISTS' AFFIRMATION BILL.
Mr. PRYME moved the third reading of this bill.
Sir 11, W. RIDLEY said, that if this bill were passed,. Parlia-

JUNE 25, 1833.

ment had better at once admit the affirmation of every man who•
objected to an oath. For his art, he did not know who the
Separatists were. He
time that day six months.
Mr. MURRAY and Mr. BRISCOE supported the bill, which web
opposed by Sir R. Notts. ►
The amendment not being pressed, the bill was read a third.
time, and passed without a division.

ARWICK, ELECT I ON.
Sir R. FERGUSONI moved, pursuant to notice, for a select
committee to consider the report of the committee on the
Warwick election petition.
Sir J. HA N NIER opposed it; and gave it as his opinion, that
the allegations contained in the report of the committee w!re
not borne out by the evidence. He deprecated the instit
r
of the proposed inquiry, merely on the ground of so few
cases of bribery (a laugh), and expressed a hope that Parlia-
ment would not at the present late period of the session enter
into such a discussion.
Mr. ErcicE. rose to sugc.est to his hon, friend (Sir R. r",-
guson) the introduction of'an amendment into his motion
"That a select committee be appointed to make further inquiry
into tli_proceedings that took place at the last election for t
city of Warwick, and to consider and report what further means
should be adopted to prevent bribery, treating, &c., in that bo-
rough."
After a few words from Sir Thomas Freemantle, and from No
other hon. members whose names we could not learn, the Inw
tion, as amended, was put and carried.
Colonel DAVIES brought inn a bill to provide for the more
speedy and summary trial of ersons accused of simple larceny.
It was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time
on Friday next.
The other orders of the day were then disposed cf, and the
house adjourned at half-past two o'clock.