The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1844-02-20 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-MONDAY.

Mr. HUME gave notice, that if the motion relating to
the Irish Catholic clergy was brought forward, he should
move an address to her Majesty, to direct an inquiry to
be made as to whether the Roman Catholic population in
Ireland wai larger than the Protestants. (Hear, and
laughter.) If so, the time he considered was come when
the revenues ought to be taken from the Protestant
church, care being taken to give compensation to the pre-
sent incumbents.

Mr. FERRAND put the following question to the Secre-
tary of State for the borne department :—" That as Lord
Chief Justice Denman hatideclared it to be the unanimous
Opinion of the judges of tizti Court of Queen's Bench,
' that there are some cases in which it is necessary to
break in upon an act of parliSinent, and upon that which
may have existed from all time;' and has also declared
that it is the mother who is the proper party to have the
custody of ail her children under seven years of age, and
that is not for the benefit of the mother but tor the pro-
tection of the children ;' and that he thinks that the
judges ought to crush the first attempt to depart from that
principle, and that it is of the highest importance that it
should be considered the undoubted law of the land,'—
whether the government intend to insert a clause in the
new Poor-law Bill, for the purpose of prohibiting the se-
paration of mother and child, if they should become the
inmates of a workhouse."

Sir J. GRAHAM said the hon. member had quite mis-
taken the opinion which Lord Denman had given on the
subject. As the law now stood, mothers might visit their
children at all convenient hours, and it was not his inten-
tion to introduce any new clause on that point.
Mr. FERRAND then gave notice that in committee on
the bill he should introduce a clause.
The Factories Bill was read a second time.
Sir R. PEEL, in rising to propose the thanks of the
House to Sir C. Napier, and the officers and men parti-
cipatingin the late military operations in Sinde, observed
that the objects and policy of the war were not here in
discussion. For the instructions given to Sir C. Napier,
the civil power, and not the Genera!, was responsible.
The Right Hon. Bart. then entered into details of the
battles of Meeanee and Hyderabad ; in the former a
British force of 2,000 was opposed to 22,000 of the
enemy, and in the latter the relative numbers were 5,000
to 20,000. The chicf glory, however, where all were
glorious, belonged to the Commander—one of three bro-
thers who had ingrafted on the stem of an ancient family
the distinction of personal nobility. Throughout the
Peninsular war there were no officers more prodigal of
their blood than those brothers : and the leader of one of
the most recent and brilliant of our naval achievements
also bore the name of Napier. The Right Hon. Bart.
illustrated the value of Sir C. Napier's success by exam-
ples of the active and perfidious character of the Ameers
and by the operations of Sir John (now Lord) Keane
against those formidable chiefs. The military skill of
Sir C. Napier was not his hightst praise ; still greater
applanse was due to the moral courage with which be
acted on his own judgment against urgent advice, and
hazarded his own life and his own reputation. For such
exploits he thought the House would be unanimous in
their thanks. He then adverted to the loss of those brave
men whose deaths were commemorated in Sir C. Napier's
despatches ; and expressed a hope that such a record of
their gallantry would afford some consolation to their
surviving families. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL.—After the eloquent language in
which the Right Hon. Gentleman has moved ',he thanks
of this House and the country to Sir Charles Napier and
the gallant army under his command in Sinde, I shall
content myself with at once seconding the motion.—
(Cheers.) Even those who may differ with the Right
Hon. Bart. must yet feel bound to reader their tribute to
the military skill, exa:ted courage, and perseverance, ex-
hibited by Sir Charles Napier. (Cheers.)" Looking at
the age to which Sir Charles Napier had attained, it is, I
consider, an eminent fortune in this country that he
should have retained all the vigour and energy of a young
man. There are few men of 20 or 30 who, while they
could not exhibit the same military skill, would have
shown the same energy and vigour. (Hear.)
Sir H. HARDINGE vindicated and applauded the cause
taken by Sir C. Napier in opposition to the advice given
by Major Outram. His gallantry was well known before ;
bis skill and the master-mind he had recently shown were
now the subjects of just eulogium. Sir H. Hardinge men-
tioned some specific instances of Sir Charles Napier's
judgment; and, moreover, of his humanity. Whatever
fortune might befall him in the difficult regions of the
East, at all events this country's honour and interest
could never be placed in safer hands.
Commodore Napier related several particulars of his
relative's gallantry in earlier life. He added some details of
the late Indian battles. There might have been no declara-
tion of war; but there had been an attack by the Ameers
on our Residency ; besides, declarations of war were out
of fashion; we had been fighting the Chinese these four
or five years without any such declaration. Gentlemen
talked about tempting future officers by votes of thanks ;
but he did not believe there would be many amateurs in
a great hurry to lead 2,000 men against 20,000.
Lord PALMERSTON gave his cordial support to the pro-
posed vote of thanks. He would not inquire into any of
the questions of policy. He saw a brilliant victory by
British troops, almost without precedent for the disparity
of the conflicting forces.
The House divided. The numbers were—
For the motion
Against it
Majority —155
Mr. CHRISTIE moved for a select committee to con-
sider the subjects of admission of strangers and publica-
tion of debates. The rules on these points, he said, were
antiquated, and now in practice disregarded. The House
was at this day hampered by its own regulations, so widely
inconsistent with its practice. He exhorted the House to
sanction the publication of reports in general, and to
punish only where the permission should be abused. He
entered into an historical review of
the existing orders,
which appeared to have had their origin in the struggles
of the house with the Crown. With respect to the
presence of strangers, he wished to see it allowed ; but
he would still leave to every Member the right of requir-
ing the house to be cleared. It had been thought that if
the House permitted reports, it ought to have its own
reporters; but experience had shown that open competi-
tion was the best security for faithful reporting.
After a long discussion the House divided—
For the motion
Against it
Majority against it —47
Mr. PAKINGTON said, the subject of his bill (" to define
and regulate the periods for holding quarter sessions in
cities and boroughs ") involved the administration of jus-
tice, and the manner in which certain powers conferred
by the Municipal Act had been exercised by the Learned
Gentleman the Recorder of Worcester. He did not
therefore press it upon the House at that hour, but would
postpone it for the 22d inst.
Mr. HAWES said he was ready to defend his learned
friend's conduct, which was thus, it appeared questioned.
Mr. PAKINGTON disclaimed any design of attempting any
imputations beyond certain statements absolutely requisite
to show the necessity for his measure.
The hon. member then obtained leave to bring in a bill,
the object of which, he said, was to assimilate, as much
as possible, the law with respect to the election of county
coroners to that affecting the election of coroners in cities
and boroughs.
The other orders were then disposed of, and the house
adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock.

. IG4

HOUSE OF LORDS..-TUESDAY.

The Marquis of NORMANRY called the attention of the
Louse to the present state of Ireland, and the cause of ex-
isting distress in that country. Proofs of the necessity for
inquiring into the state of Ireland were abundant, not
only in petitions to their lords but in the present aspect of
that country, though he sincerely said he had no alarm
for an outbreak in Ireland. He conceived that if her
Majesty's government considered that the repeal agitation
was illegal, they ought to have resorted to a remedial
measure much sooner than they did. The conduct of go-
vernment up to the latest moment gave the advocates of
repeal cause to think that ministers would strike if they
dared. He believed that no one vindicated the govern-
ment for their proceedings with respect to that meeting,
it was conduct unexampled in the history of any Govern-
ment.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE, on behalf of the government, de-
fended equally the apparent impunity which it had award-
ed to the previous meetings, and the suppression of that
at Clontarf, which, he contended, was essentially distin-
guished from all that had preceded it by the ostentation
of military array. He excused the tardiness in the issue
of the proclamation prohibiting the meeting ; and, passing
to the state trials, disclaimed for the law officers of the
crown any share in the omission of the names from the
jury lists. After alluding to the landlord and tenant com-
mission, and the question of franchise, he proceeded to
say that an additional grant would be proposed for the
purpose of education, and the obstructions which now
prevented the appropriation of money to provide houses
and glebes for the Roman Catholic priesthood would be
removed. He objected strongly to any proposal which
might endanger the stability of the established church in
Ireland, treating as chimerical the notion of placing the
two churches upon an equality ; and concluded by expli-
citly declaring the determination of the ministry to pre-
serve the union inviolate, and uphold the supremacy of
the law.
Lord RODEN compared the Irish administration of Lord
De Grey with that of the Marquis of Normanby very
much to the advantage of the former, and found prece-
dents for many of the subjects of complaint the noble
Marquis had stated in the history of his own career as
Lord Lieutenant.
Lord DEVON, the Marquis of WESTMEATH, Lord HA-
WARDEN, and Lord BEAUMONT, also addressed the
house; and the debate was finally adjourned until Thurs-
day. The house then rose.