The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1844-03-19 00:00:00

HOUSE OF CONINIONS.—THuRsnAv.
_ _

Mr. COCHRANE moved for copies of any correspon-
dence with Sir E. Lyons, or with France and Russia, on
the late events in Greece. He adverted to the favourable
reception which had been given to the constitutiono pro_
posed there ; and, after an encomium n the character
Ti
il.
and
required
the
and ability of Sir E. Lyons, he inquired what a
government intended to take respecting thel course
re-
specting that article of the constitution vi
that the successor to the throne should be ale
member of
the Greek church, and which he regarded as inconsistent
e
with the treaty of 1832. He considered himself o
no imputation of inconsistency for vindicating at
to
once
legitimacy and constitutional government. and ,expressed
his warm sympathy with the rising fortunes of Greece.
Sir R. Peet, answered, that he purposed substantially
to comply with this motion, reserving a large discretion
as to certain passages ,vhich it might not he proper at
present to publish. The general object had been to en-
courage the constitutional settlement of a limited monar-

chy ; but it would not be expedient to produce details at
this moment; and it was clear that any attempt to coerce
the deliberations of the authorities in Greece would en-
danger the permanence of the constitution which they
might adopt. On the subject of the loan. he begged to
excuse himself for the present from any statement 1.113011
that subject, considering the peculiar circumstances
through which Greece was now passing.
LORD PALMERSTON considered Sir R. Peel's -statement
to be on the whole a satisfactory one. He stated his ge-
neral opinion that all countries were fit for free constitu-
tions ; and that the very best way to fit any .people for
them, was to give them to that people. He agreed that
England and France were bound to exercise great
forbearance with respect to details in Greece, though
he thought those Powers well justified in requiring that
Greece should adopt a free constitution. He wished for
some modification of that article of the Constitution
which relates to the question of religious creed as a con-
dition of the succession to the Crown of Greece, and
eulogised Sir E. Lyons as a soldier and as a diplomatist.
SIR R. PEEL concurred in this paney yric.
SIR HOWARD DOUGLAS and SIR R. INGLIS said each
a few words ; and MR. COCHRANE shortly replied.
MR. M. MILVES called the attention of the house to
the present state of criminal jurisdiction over British sub-
jects within the dominions of PORTE. The term British
subjects included not only Englishmen, but Mattes and
lonians. All these we had withdrawn by treaty from the
criminal jurisdiction of the PORTE, and yet we had pro-
vided no triblinal or authority of our own in substitution.
He moved an address to the Crown for the Establishment
of some judicature for the protection of life and property
in those countries.

Sir ROBERT PEEL admitted the state of the law to be
unsatisfactory, but insisted upon the difficulty of intrust-
ing a consul with a jurisdiction of life and death. Inqui-
ries had been addressed to Sir Stratford Canning, and
when his reply arri red no time would be lost in devising
some remedy. In consequence of this statement Mr.
Milnes withdrew his motion.
Mr. TURNER. moved a resolution in condemnation of
duelling. He treated the subject at vast length, on moral
grounds ; and then recommended that capital punishment
for killing in a duel should be abolished, except where the
parties fought without seconds ; and that a man killing
another in a duel should be liable for the debts of the de-
ceased. He read several passages from eminent authors
condemning the practice, and many extracts from letters
addressed to himself by various correspondents, suggest-
ing various remedies.

Sir R. PEEL objected to deal with offences by way of
resolution. To pass a resolution which could not be en-
forced would be but to lower the character of the house.
He objected to Mr. Turner's idea of recognising seconds,
as affording an indirect sanction to the practice; and he
ridiculed the notion of the survivor's paying the debts of
the deceased. He doubted the possibility of establishing
a court of honour with good effect; he would rather, in
the present state of society, trust to the operation of indi-
vidual good feeling to make reparation by a fitting apo-
logy. Nor did he think that the abolition of capital pu-
nishment would produce much effect; for it was not the
greater or less probability of a conviction that operated to
prevent duelling. There was now a flow of public opinion
against it; an association comprehending great numbers
of brave officers, naval and military, had been formed to
discountenance it; and he would not willingly run the
risk of checking this wholesome sentiment. _ _ _

After one or two other members had spoken, Mr.
Turner consented to withdraw his motion.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-FRIDAY.

The business of the house was the committee on the
Factories' Bill. On the Bth clause of it,
__
__

Lord ASHLEY addressed the committee. He dis-
claimed any hostility to the mill-owners ; he had not found
that avarice and cruelty were confined to any one set of
men ; all classes were more or less guilty of it ; witness
the hardships of the dressmakers, who are oppressed by
no manufacturer or landlord, but who suffer in order to
meet the suddenly varying caprices of fashion—nay, the
demands of the gentler sex. He would assert the right
of the state to interpose for the protection of the labourer.
He mentioned the general regulations on this subject
which are established in several foreign countries; and
showed the great increase which had taken place in the
numbers of the persons employed in England upon the
five principal branches of manufacture. In 1818 those
branches occupied 57,000 persons ; in 1839 their numbers
were 419,000. He explained the nature and severity of
the labour required by machinery ; calculating the length
of ground which in some sorts of work each spinner goes
over per day of 12 hours in following the machines called
mules—a length amounting often to more than 25, some-
times even to more than 35 miles in the day. He pointed
out the ill effects of this excessive labour upon the health
and eyesight of the operatives, and fortified his deductions
by the opinions of several eminent physicians. The mis-
chief showed itself in the early superannuation of the peo-
ple, of whom not more than about 6 per cent. remained
fit for full work after 45 years of age. Their habits were
such, that a provision for later life was hardly ever made
by them. The exhaustion from early labour was so
great, that they could work at no other occupation when
cast off from the factories ; and a large proportion
of them were thus reduced, in the middle of life, to sub-
sist wholly upon the earnings of their children. He
showed, from the statistics of other countries, as well as
of our own, the disadvantageous effect of manufacturing,
as compared with agricultural, labour upon the health of
the labourers. He dwelt particularly on the extensive
prevalence, in many factories, of the practice of employ-
ing women for continuous lengths of timo co great, ac to
preclude, especially in the case of mothers, the possibility
of their attending to their natural duties, and thus their
children were drugged with laudanum until it became al-
most a necessary of existence. He adverted still more
earnestly to the fearful effects produced upon morals
through the promiscuous way in which males and females
are intermingled in their working hours ; and through the
insubordination produced by the consciousness of the
women and children that their earnings are the chief de-
pendence of their husbands and fathers. These evils had
at length produced an impression upon the minds of the
mill-owners themselves, who were now found in great
numbers desirous to co-operate towards such a limita-
tion of labour with regard to time and sex as should
apply a remedy to the mischief, and restore the women
to their conjugal and maternal duties. He asked, on
behalf of the poor, a time to live and a time to die—a
time for the duties of life, and a time for its comforts ;
and he concluded by moving that the night, instead of
being computed from eight o'clock in the evening, should
be computed from six o'clock.
Sir J. GRAHAM felt much pain in opposing the motion
of the noble lord. The real point now raised was whether
the working day for women and young persons should
consist of 12 hours or of 10; and that was a question ra-
ther of degree than of principle. He questioned Lord
Ashley's details of the spinner's mileage, which appeared
to him to be impossible. Those details had been cal-
culated at a certain reasonable rate of velocity in the ma-
chinery ; but if the hours sh ould be shortened, the velocity
was sure to be so accelerated as to compensate the de-
ficiency. He would not examine into the question of
comparative salubrity as between agricultural and manu-
facturing industry • for both employments were essential
to the prosperity of this great country. He denied that
economy was unknown among the operatives, and adduced
some striking examples of it which had come to his know-
ledge on that very day. The sympathies of all men must
be with the noble lord's object; but he believed that the
manufacturing labourers themselves would not be gainers
by the concession of this particular proposal ; and the
masters had acquiesced in the other limitations which the
present bill contained, on the express understanding that
the government would support that main clause which
allows young persons and women to be employed for
twelve hours. It was now proposed to abridge by one-
sixth the whole period allowed for the replacement of
capital and the production of profit. But what would be
the consequence of that abridgment? Why, that a pro-
portionate abridgment would immediately be made in the
wages of the workpeople; and the workpeople themselves
were all aware of that inevitable consequence.
After several members had spoken,
Lord SANDON felt that this measure was experimental,
but thought there was good ground to expect its success.
It had succeeded on a large scale in factories where it had
been voluntarily adopted.
Mr. BRIGHT saw no need for anew factory bill. There
was hardly a complaint made by Lord Ashley against the
manufacturing towns of the north which might not be
equally well alleged against London or Birmingham. He
then went into details, for the purpose of contradicting
what Lord Ashley had said of the unhealthiness and other
miseries of the manufacturing districts. The labour of the
London milliners and dressmakers, during the season,
was much worse than the severest toil in any of the fac-
tories. In the factory districts, though the population
had generally multiplied, there had been a more than
proportionate increase of schools and places of worship.
He travelled into a variety of statistics, to show the
high wages and general prosperity and comfort of the
manufacturing population: and contrasted the rarity of
parochial relief among them with its frequency in the
county which Lord Ashley represents. Lord Ashley
looked through a telescope at the manufacturing districts,
and brought their evils magnified and approximated to
his sight ; but when lie had to view the suffering state of
his own neighbours in Dorsetshire he reversed the glass,
and made the object smaller, and more distant than the
reality. He admitted that the hours of work were longer
than they ought to be; but the evils of the people arose,
not from overwork, but mainly from excessive taxation
and unjust monopoly.
LORD ASHLEY rebutted, with a good deal of agitation,
some personalities against himself which Mr. Bright had
introduced into his speech.
This brought or. some altercation, in the course of
which the house marked its disapproval of Mr. Bright's
tone and language. Mr. Bright at last disclaimed any
intention to offend Lord Ashley, and the apology was
accepted.
The house adjourned.