The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-22 00:00:00

e SPEAKER resumed the chair at 5 o'clock.

HERTFORD ELECTION.
. BERN AL, the chairman of the Hertford cleft
a, stated that he had given notice of his intent°
tat the special report of the Hertford cominittel
message might be sent to the House of Lords'
lordships' leave for the attendance of the yU
mry, and the production of certain of his 109
in the borough, be taken into consideration th'l
id now to inform the house that the further pop
is subject was rendered unnecessary, in cons
addressed to him that day by the Marquess 01,1`
'hich he would take the liberty of reading to,,
etter was dated " The House of Lords," an",
'Mg purport. " Sir,—Understanding that it 0,
nience of the committee to see the agreeineir
vith some of my
.cottage tenants, and as soul
nice in the way of obtaining them by motion IDI
=mons, I beg to inclose one, which I have
IformatiOn of the committee. They are all of
and I shall have no objection to submit to
hose specified in the votes of the House of (.0
)me delay will necessarily occur before this
y are at present in the country." Mr. Bern'
are that the house, after hearing the letter, 41
m that it was unnecessary for him to proceeol
n ; and he should therefore propose that it be
Lion accordingly withdrawn.

GARRISONS.
d EBRINGTON wished to know whether the
man, the Secretary at War, could inform 19
t he contemplated laying before the house tb°
he (Lord Ebrington) had moved for respo
t home and abroad?

J. HonnousE said he had written letters te,
!rs of the different garrisons, requesting them
sired information, and the returns could not,
ide up until the answers to those letters Wee
he feared, would be some time yet. He too
of stating to the hon. member for Middles'
be out of his power to present the returns and
on. member relative to the profits of colonels co
'early the end of the session, because a great,
officers were residing at great distances abroad
d EBRINGTON trusted that the returns relative
at home would be shortly laid on the table, ae
Lat he would move, on the army estimates belt
the consideration of the house, that a select
minted to inquire into the salaries of the gov 4
',governors of garrisons at home and abroad,
ertain whether any reduction might be mad
it detriment to the public service.

REVISING BA It RISTER S.
:he report of the vote of £30,500 to pay the CA
rising barristers being brought up,
G. SOMERSET asked how it was that two
Id travelled over the same ground, and been'
ne number of days, appeared, in several
lade very different charges.
1 A LTHOR P said, that in the instances alluded
ord there were certain expenses common to
, which had only been charged by one of thelvi
COBBETT did not object to the charges; he b
ere very fair, for every thing that lawyers didll
objected to making those Who had to vote
f those barristers. Vast numbers of the p
t unworthy to have the right of voting, but
isidered unworthy of being taxed.
r a few words from Mr. Hume and Mr. O'C
was received.

IRISH DISTURBANCES BILL.
he question being put, that the house resolve
ttee on this bill,
COBBETT rose and said that he should consi'
;est of men if he did not object to proceedio)
c measure. They had heard of the deeds of
i, of Perceval, and of Castlereagh, but he fe'
ore the house an infamous pre-eminence °vet
The hon. member then proceeded to argue at
;th that the measure was utterly repugnant te,
if the British constitution as laid down by ll'
one, and alter instituting a comparison betwe
measures of the British government with re,
rth American colonies, declared that the poi
ght to resist the former as the Americans ha
sr. If this bill were more tyrannical than any e
lad been framed at the reformation by the ap');
•ers of the reign of Henry VIII., the worthy '
oble lords and-hon. gentlemen opposite,—if it
y measure which had emanated from that tyre
t were more abominable than anything whit
l ever directed against America, what nght ba
expect that the people of England would
the infliction of it upon the people of Irelo
Idly that an Englishman was base and no'
who would not step as far for the liberties of I
d for those of England itself. This bill, if pass`.
mid be sure to return here at last. Mimste
sans of conducting their government in Eng'
ent system but that. He had very frequeo
asure tyrannical, and those who- aimed at f
et tyrants. It was therefore necessary to coo
was; for all nature and all usage said, that
resist and to destroy a tyrant. If he were a t
nuch right to destroy him as Moses had to a
ter of Egypt, or as Jehu had to cast Jezabel
and to give her blood up to the dogs to lick.
All that a tyrant wanted was, to take from
s of their laliour, their money, or their goods;
lay take from you without resistance your F
or the fruits of your labour, he will let you 10
roy you. Therefore, know ye, what tyrants
.anny is, and when you know it, remembef,
resistance exists, and that he who exerts it to
" Ay," but say some, "you cannot resist."
hat point, and would then conclude. (Immeo
") "If you feel," said he, "such satisfaetioa.
; that I am near a conclusion, I'll disappoint
conclude this time." (" Oh !oh !") " Ay,
you have got such an army that we cannot
.ent." Yes, but the government has got apa
that is its weak point. Let them be comp2l,,
u gold, and then so long as they are compel'
se people are more than a match for them. ft'
one are more than a match for them. I kno,e,

another Bank Restriction Act. I know do.
for South Devon recommended them to pi':
But what then ? The merchants of
they won't deal with the country people so 10'
gold; let the? country people have patience,
,ds at home, and then see whether the raj
ye not as much need of them as they have o',
'Cork. The filthy rags will lose their power, ;
e lost their power, where is the pay for tbosei
out bayonets and bullets to the- people ?
then proceeded to say that he did not intercl
.isty's present ministers of a wish to be tyra!',
so from nature ; but they would become so
Question, question.") Who called quest'
hat he was making a pretty long. questiol3'
t to excite personal feelings against the
ould not coax or flatter the servants of the Cr
imulate them to do their duty by represco
L his opinion, be the consequences of this se
7eland. He hoped the people of England
be inactive spectators of what was about to
Le of Ireland.

rTWOOD gave notice that on the first opplortlO
resent itself he would move that all furtper P
)e suspended until the remedied measures s"
ters should be carried into effect; for he he)
!asure should be passed the remedial mead
or probably not be carried through at all
%
ice that he would move in the committee a cla''
,peration of the bill to those counties of Leius
were said to be committed. He would not k

nmished for the guilty, and therefore he tb
of Ireland which were tranquil should be

act. He was an enemy to the repeal of the union, and
e he would take away from the inhabitants of those trail-
u:, c's oue argument which they might use in favour of
a ure if they were thus to be coufouuded with the guilty.
hest)
Pection, that the Speaker do leave the chair, was then
C carried, and the house went into
0'8.,,, x , COMMITTEE ON THE BILL. .
an!.R, AL (the chairman) having read the fourth clause
which empowers the Lord-Lieutenant to issue his
LirtLhatt declaring any county, &c., to be so disturbed as
e, the application of this law, and such county, &c.,
accrued a proclaimed district,
„ANIIIEPT . ' Said it was his intention to move an amendment
be any other part of the bill to which it might more
_emade, to the effect that the bill should not extend 1t which related to the collection of tithes in Ireland.
„„.,Illiorio said that the amendment suggested by his
:'"° Would not be necessary, as ministers had it in ton-
-loato introduce
,t
},,. resort. to the act passed in the last session for the col-
arrears of tithes.
uft;,NINELL asked why not, then, suspend the further col-
-I,,,Lahse tithes? They had in the accounts which ar-
;(_, looming another melancholy proof of the sad con-
% (.)t- attempting to collect tithes by an armed force.
;'l-Tnotie said. it would be premature to suspend the
t'; t the arrears, until they knew whether Parliament
,opt the measures which they had in contemplation
41).Ject.
due/ANLEy said it would be impossible that government
decided answer to the hon. and learned gentleman's
t present. He did not understand what the hon.
tpgeantitloeums an meant by a levy by the police. There
going on, in which the assistance of the
,e'seshtnetimes re9uired with respect to tithes. One was,
ofctislarY protection was given to the clergy in the col-
,,,L_lles due to them; and the other, where it was given
iltr collected the arrears for the public on which go-
si4d made au advance of money. Now, as to the lat-
Dul .`,l ask the hon. and learned member for Dublin to
[led :°Y one instance in which any party had been
ao,itainst for arrears of tithe who was not well able to
eli,lo refused only through a spirit of resistance to
on account of tithe. Ile was sure he could not.
‘4. ' and learned gentleman would say that any persons
l!led against for tithe who were too poor to.pay, he
eo;_no that his information, come from wheTe it might,
"eel- As to the cases of individual clergymen taking
adores to collect their tithe, he could not say ; but he
fte,:ud of any instances of severity. As to the allege-
t e police refusing to give vouchers when they received
fbad not heard of any such thing till now, and he As
ed to he- • - c believe it collect.
,'
w°/4.I._NE. 1..1, was inclined to believe that the right hon.
gr as himself mistaken in supposing that no collec-
iorefir tars
was made from poor persons. He had heard of
t. area e number of 7,0 W having been issued for the re-
'o. rs of tithes.
lzuse'eYlber (name not known) expressed a hope that
t o}7ight be introduced to impress on the people. that
%lira of this bill was not the collection of tithes.
let say .Was the general impression amongst the people;
as to get
it was correct, but it would be right so to frame
L4ll get rid of it.
u"'"' had heard nothing to induce him to alter his
i lie ,i,
ilit:v ,- should therefore, in coscharge of what he felt to
i tit s';) ",le, People of Ireland, urge the amendment. He
the-Vn soca a clause few persons in Ireland would
. ii „111.
6 .. i. ALBor (of Athlone)hoped that some such clause.
:ItiTtroduced. He would not have voted for the first
poult, readings if he had not thought that some such
IN m have been introduced.
Id it admitted that that never was the object of the bill,
that the clergy were to be paced out of the
led Ste ? That, however, must be the case if outrages
e tried the clergy in the collection of tithes were
' sled bY the courts to be established under the bill.
01L-"RP said that any aid in the collection of tithe
thrse-:)„4l,,tet uSariodbject of the bill, which was for the protec-
s ,!,);ILY generally, but undoubtedly if outrage or die-
il.
ed
Lie committed against the collection of tithes in any
iii, ist.riet, they would be cognizable by the court., mi-
e,,„,4°L as tithe cases, but as outrages.
liii,h."'lELL said it was clear enough that the great
itt,e Was When given under the bill was to be applied to
its i') .once the power was given, how could they
1) tb b`elkiig so used, unless some such clause as that sug-
ttst„e "n. member opposite were introduced ?
ii: wished that the real object of the bill should be
Pie °L as undoubtedly understood by the people in gene-
't i,°"Ject was to aid in the collection of tithe.
114'1; 'aid it was not suggested that the object of the
'ir aid in the collection of tithe. It was not said that
alT:e to be sent out one day, and that the next
.the
i,`lal were to try those who offered any opposition.
at.„-°,,t,, said. He would go further, and admit that it
4-"°(.1; ut, then, took at the bill, and it would be
" went further than they inteuded. The bill ern-
verai
, acts, and declared that all offences against any
Wassu-ets should be cognizable by courts-martial. The
should
dig the act embody the 27th of George 111 ? It
iji section of that act apply to the coliection of tithes ?
v s it not, then, follow, that the power to. be granted. by
bpi° ,'", be applied in cases of the collection or tithe? i
lb' "ten, could the noble lord deny that it was to aid
Ject?
TA .
18Y said the clause referred to by the hon. mem-
-4,14ch persons as shall by force, or threat, or other
'alls.'' (.1-lear, hear," from Mr. Sheil.) He hoped
1 laehiber, having had his turn, would allow him to
0 Pie act to which reference had been made was
1.17 e Purpose of putting down the Whiteboy system in
ah`Pas ordinarily known by the name of the NV hit.e-
-047" was intimately connected with what was called in
`rY the WhitetioSt Code." Ministers did not, by
1,-,i't Measure, mean to interfere with tithes; all they
'4's, to give to the clergy the same protection, and no
104 was extended to other classes of the community—to
t'heir property the same protection which was. given
'lJ,:ies of proper. property great object of the bill was
e Protection of (Hear, hear.)
,°!ThuLt, observed that the act which had been re-
' 'tict which appeared to be followed in the bill then eL_
,utise, looked to tithe property almost exclusively. It
for tithes far more than it legislated for bond fide
i4!Pertv
Iltfi
s. • This measure, he repeated, was emphatically
kt e .
Itioac denied that the interpretation of the learned
111 . .
. With reference to the 27th of Geo. W. was correct.
it member would lead the particular clause,
.he wouldrth Was directed against "any unlawful combination. to
Vu' ' collection of tithes, or any forcible obstruction to
L an or any violence used towards lam in collecting

Ilissation of some length ensued, in which Mr. O'Con-
0, Keane, Mr. H. Grattan, Dr. baluwin, and several
4,i=nBElt.r el:fibers took part.
, complained that a writer in an Irish provin-
r had called upon the people of the county oi Wex-
r:,,ak„ their justvengeance on his hon. colleague and
'," ter the vote which he had given upon the bill now
r 'touse. (Hear.) For hirosen, be was quite ready to
One obloquy to which he was exposed by appearing to
tt,e7. any part of the. measure. He wished the hill to be so
441'3°, connect its Operation solely with the suppression of
e k '4le horrible system of agitation now prevalent in he-
ll:ad received letters from Ireland admitting that some
4,,1s unavoidable, but calling for modifications of its pro-
-4" above alt, beseeching that it might not be so con-
-Bto he a prop of the tithe system. (Hear.) He
anda4d to the clause a .proviso to this effect, " Provided
he it hereby enaCted, that it shall not be lawful for
o _teutenant or other 'chief governor or goveinors of
tiPply I.he.powers conferred by this act in any way o
~ ~ Or district merely. because tithes shall not be paid
11('ClitY or district ; and be it further enacted, that the
or of this act. shall nofbe , appliedi in any way for the
IV a "Yhig tithes, or enforcing pa thereof."
eI, artuaToN supported the ,proviso, and observed that
4.l.°lltise of the. noble lord (Aithorp) on a former night,
et-trit that this act was not .to be applied to the levying
bat e,r!t• of tithes, he (Mr. Warburton) could not con-
tip,' °Lileetion could by any possibility be offered by the
ilde °r his colleagues -to the. present motion. (Hear.)
Llia:i.ed the noble lord as being bound in honour, after
two said on a for Mer evening, to put some limitation
q... e, for
Claus feculent of the powers ot the law as enjoined by
~,e of this bill, which directly. referred to the 27th
ileln-tel3;tain
sa.', Val) 15. If the noble lord refused to make such
one, should consider it as a direct breach of
t-tit't the part of the noble lord.
It(fttoolti. said that to the whole of the first part of the
p4...4et to any
the hon. member for the county of Wexford he
the slightest objection; lie alluded to that
tuerProviiso which emicted that it should not be lawful
his
.tt Lieutenant of Ireland to apply, the powers confer-
county or district merely in consequence
aezil of tithes. With respect to the other part of
Uliter's amendment, the aoubt he felt was as Co the

misinterpretation it might be liable to. Now, the object of the
bill was to regard all outrages against property in the same
light, and to punish them accordingly. He did not feel any
objection, as he had already said, to the first part of his hon.
friend's amendment ; but upon the grounds which he had
mentioned, he should object to the second portion of it.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that it appeared that the noble lord
would not object to the first part of the amendment, because
the first part of it, without the second, would be totally inope-
rative. He contended that it was absurd to say that this act
would not be applied to the levying of tithes, when they would
leave the 27th of Geo. 111. to be interpreted by such learned
sages as the members of a court-martial.
Mr. LEFROY observed that no civil remedy was in any re-
spect afforded by the 27th of Geo. 111. It was merely intended
to apply to criminal offences and outrages against property, and
that being the case, he would beg to know whether, as long as
tithes existed, their possessors should not enjoy the protection
of the law, as well as other individuals. Were the clergy to be
outlawed, and was the property to be left exposed to violence
and outrage? The effect of the introduction of such a saving
clause into the bill would be to encourage the peasantry of Ire-
land to resist the payment of tithes by illegal combinations and
acts of violence andoutrage.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON thought that it would perhaps be better
to postpone the consideration of such an ainendntent as that
now before the committee until they had come to the court-
martial clause.
Some observations were made by Mr. Warburton, Mr. Finch,
Mr. Pry-me, Mr. Shaw, Mr. Stanley, Mr. James Grattan, Mr.
Sheil, Lord Althorp, and Mr. Perrin, when
Mr. LAMBERT said he had not brought the clause forward in
any spirit of unkindness; and as to protecting outrages, he was
the last person to do so.
Lord ALTHORP said he objected to the latter part only of the
amendment. If he had expressed himself so as to create misap-
prehension, he was sorry for it.
Mr. WARBURTON said that the amendment suggested by the
right hon. gentleman was not sufficiently. comprehensive.
The Chairman then put the question on Mr. Lainbert's
amendment—" Provided always that it shall not be lawful for
the Lord Lieutenant, governor, or governors to apply the pow-
ers of this act to any county, or district merely because tithes are
not paid in such county or district."
The committee divided on the question, at the instance of
Mr. Shaw, when there appeared—
For the amendment - 281
Against it - 81 •

Majority in favour of the amendment - 203
[During the exclusion of strangers, it was understood that
Mr. SHAW proposed to the right hon. gentleman the secretary
for Ireland, to move the substance of the amendment that he
should move at the end of the 17th clause, comprehending all
civil processes, without specifying. tithe.
Sir H. PEEL called the attention of the committee to the
words of the clause then under consideration; which required a
"district to be in a state of disturbance and insubordination"
before the Lord Lieutenant could apply to it the provisions of
the act ; and then called upon the committee to say whether it
was not a manifest absurdity to add to that clause that the
Lord Lieutenant should not proclaim the district merely because
tithe was not paid within it. Did it mean that if cess or rent or
any other payment was withheld, except that of tithe, that the
Lord-Lieutenant was to proclaim the district ? The right hon.
baronet called upon the Solicitor-General to say whether such
would not be the natural inference, and whether such an amend-
ment was not then ridiculous and absurd.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL certainly considered the Lord-
Lieutenant could not proclaim a district as the clause originally
stood, merely because tithe was not paid, and that the amend-
ment would certainly encumber the clause, and might give rise
to the inference suggested by the right hon. baronet, (Sir H.
Peel,) and undoubtedly, in his opinion, the clause would stand
much better without the amendment. . .

Mr. W. W. WYNN urged upon his Majesty's ministers the
absurdity of dividing in favour of a clause which the Solicitor-
General declared would be injurious to the bill.
Mr. SHAW called upon the right hon. secretary (Mr. Stanley)
to state his views of the effect of the amendment, as he (Mr.
Stanley) had himself submitted to the committee an amend-
ment, which he (Mr. Shaw) understood was to be substituted
from that now put from the chair.
Mr. STANLEY said that certainly his opinion was that the
clause would be better without the amendment, and that the
government agreed to it merely in deference to the opinion of
one hon. gentleman.
Sir J. Wrottesley, Sir M. W. Ridley, Mr. Sanford, Mr. J.
Browne, and several other supporters of ministers voted against
ministers.'
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. O'CoNNELL contending that such an addition should be made
to the clause as would enable the public to judge whether the Lord-
Lieutenant, in proclaiming any district, had exercised a wise and
sound discretion. To effect this object, he moved as a proviso that
the Lord-Lieutenant be required to lay before parliament, or to pub-
lish in the Dublin Gazelle if parliament be not sitting at the time, an
account of all felonies and crimes committed within any proclaimed
district.
Lord ALTHORP objected to the amendment, because he thought it
both invidious .and unne.cessary,—inviduous, because it proceeded
upon the suspicion that the Lord Lieutenant would improperly exer-
cise the powers intrusted to him by the bill ; and unnecessary, 'because
it would be in the power of any gentleman, if he thought tit, to move
for the production of such a return as the hon. and learned member
described. _

Lord J. Russell opposed and Mr. O'Dwyer supported the amend-
Ineut, _ _ _ _

Sir R. PEEL conceived that the amendment would not hare been
out of place if introduced at another stage of the bill. The clause as
it stood enabled the Lord-Lieutenant to proclaim a district or county
for every vance other than " the non-payment of tithes." (" Hear"
from the opposition.) All therefore that was wanting to the perfection
of the clause was the including " rents and county cess." (" Hear,"
and a laugh.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said his fear was that the "tithe non-payment"
exemptipn would be got over by some other pretext being alleged as
to the ground of proclamation. It was to guard against this pretence
53,-slem that he moved, and he would persist in his amendment.
After a few words from Mr. P. Roche, in favour of the amendment,
the committee divided:—
For the amendment
Against it

Majority in favour of the original clause - 158
The sth clause, declaring that " The Lord-Lieutenant's proclamation
shall warn the inhabitants to abstain from seditious and other unlaw-
ful assemblies, and to continue in their houses between sunset and
sunrise," was then, after a short discussion, agreed to.
The 6th clause was then proposed, which enacts " That every coun-
ty, county of a city, county of a town, or part thereof respectively,
so proclaimed, shall be considered to all intents and purposes as a
proclaimed district within this act, from the day on -which such pro-
clamation shall be published within such proclaimed district, by affix-
ing a copy thereof on some public place within the same district."
Mr. BARRON contended that there was not sufficient time given by
this clause to the inhabitants of a proclaimed district to know that it
was proclaimed. He thought that two days ought to be allowed for
that purpose.
Mr. STANLEY said that he had no objection to insert after the words
" from the day" the words " after that :" so that the district would
not be considered as a proclaimed' district till the second day after
that proclamation was issued.
This amendment was then made, and agreed to.
The 7th clause was then read from the chair, to which Mr. O'Con-
nell moved an amendment. After some discussion time house divided,
and the amendment was negatived by a majority of 165.
After some discussion on the question of an adjournment of the
house, the Bth clause was agreed to, and the cluiirman reported pro-
gress, and obtained leave to sit again to-morrow.
The other orders of the day being disposed of, the house adjourned
at 3 o'clock.

•
TUESDAY.
The ballots for committees on the NorWich city election peti-
tion, and the Longford county election petition, having been
fixed for this day, the gallery was not opened until a quarter
before five o'clock. . _

The SPEAKER having informed thehouse that the petitiOners,
complaining of an undue election and return for the county of
Carmarthen, had not entered ustail recognizances, the
order for taking the petition into consideration was discharged.
General PALMER presented a petition from Bath, for the
better observance of the sabbath.
An hon. MEMBER presented a petition from a congregation
of particular Baptists, at Newcastle-upon-Tyne, praying for the
abolition of colonialislavery.

COLONYAL SLAVERY.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoed his hon. friend
(Mr. F. Buxton) would not bring forward his motion on this
subject at present. It was well known that his Majesty's mi-
nisters intended shortly to bring forward a proposition on the
subject, and he could not help thinking that a premature dis-
cussion would be disadvantageous to the question itself, and
embarrassing to the house. He therefore hoped his hon. friend
would postpone his motion, at least until he had beard what his
Majesty's ministers intended to propose. (Hear.)

Mr. F. BUXTON said he was as well convinced as any one
could be that the question of colonial slavery would be better in
the. hands of Ministers than of any private member of that
house. He could only consent to the postponement of his
motion, however, upon two conditions : that ministers would
state by the noble lord that they were prepared with a plan for
the total abolition of colonial slavery; (cries- of oh, oh,) and
also, that they would name the day on which they intended to
bring forward their measure. The state of public business
made it ►mperative upon him to comply with the request of the
noble lord only on those conditions. (Hear, hear, and some
cries of oh, oh.) He found that there was not a vacant day
on the order book until the end of the month of June. After
Easter they would have the finances, the Church, and India] to