The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-05-26 00:00:00

COUNCIL MEETING.--NEW BOROUGH GAOL.

A special meeting of the Council was held on Wednesday,
in the Town-hall, for the purpose of considering the pro-
priety of confirming a report of the Finance Committee,
which recommended that the Wavertree Hall estate should
be purchased from the trustees of the late John Blackburne,
Esq., as a site for the intended new borough gaol, for the
sum of £lO,OOO. The MAYOR presided.
The DEPUTY TOWN-CLERK read the proceedings of the
Finance Committee on this subject, which set forth that the
Wavertree Hall estate, consisting of eighteen acres and six
perches, had been offered to the corporation for the sum of
£lO,OOO ; that the tender was accepted subject to the ap-
proval of the council ; and that Major Jebb, who had in-
spected all the sites offered, was of opinion that this was
decidedly the most eligible. The Surveyor bad, it appeared,
reported to the committee that the levels showed a sufficient
fall for drainage.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE, in moving the confirmation of the
report, said it would not be altogether useless to remind the
council of the actual position in which they were placed, and
of the necessity which there was for building a gaol—that
from the year 11432 to this date the number of persons under
their charge had been nearly doubled—that the whole re-
sponsibility of providing adequate room in the gaol rested
upon the shoulders of the council and upon their's alone.
Great, indeed, was the responsibility of those olio knew the
evils of a crowded gaol, and yet hesitated and neglected to
apply a sufficient remedy. This subject was brought before
the council last summer, by the crowded state in which the
gaol then was. This was in October. The question was
not whether they should enlarge the present gaol by adding
wings, or at once build a new gaol. The Finance Committee
would have wished, notwithstanding they had bare accommo-
dation within the walls of the gaol, and they were desirous
of avoiding so heavy an outlay as a new gaol would incur,
because they thought they might wait till the new model prison
at Pentonville had been tried. But the secretary of state
would not allow delay ; and the only alternative in October
was whether they would add new wings to the old gaol, or
build a new one entirely. The council decided upon the lat-
ter alternative, and the Finance Committee's instructions
were to carry out the views of the council with regard to a
new site, a task which had not been so easy as they at first
supposed. There had been some difficulty in obtaining a
site. They advertised, inviting the landowners of the neigh-
bourhood to offer their land, the result of which was that se-
veral offers of land were brought within reach, many of
which were ultimately refused, not on account of their ex-
pense but on account of their unsuitableness in several re-
spects. For instance, those near the Old Swan or that di-
rection were too far off. The land at Kirkdale, belonging to
the Earl of Derby, which contained the requisite quantity of
square yards, but the shape was not fit. Mr. Lawrence then
showed that none but the site selected possessed all the
requisites; and having replied to the objections urged against
It by some parties in the neighbourhood, he concluded by
moving the resolution.
Mr. COOPED. seconded the motion.
Sir THOMAS BRANCKER supported the motion, and poin-
ted out that an improvement of great importance would be
effected in consequence of an intention to direct part of the
Wavertree wad so as to prevent the railroad from crossing
it, when by the purchase of a very small piece of land
they would have the important priviledge of taking their
prisoners direct from the rail vray into the gaol yard, so that
the nuisance so much apprehended, of seeing the prisoners
and their visitors woald be abated. The site had the entire
approval of Major Jet,b, who the moment he saw it, said
" this is the place for a gaol !"
Mr. PARKER.—Have you not, Mr. Mayor, a memorial
from the inhabitants of West Derby?
The MAYOR.—No—I have one from the proprietors of
the Botanic Gardens, which it will perhaps be proper to read
at this juncture.
The MAYOR read the memorial in question, from which it
from which it appeared that the committee apprehended
that the erection of the gaol would injure their property.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE would like to put it to the Council
what possible injury the gaol could do to the Botanic Gar-
dens.

Mr. HODGSON thought it would be well if Major Jebb's
letter were laid before the Council. He considered the site
a very desirable one.
Mr. LAWRENCE read the remarks of Major Jebb, from
which it appeared to be the opiniOn of that gentleman that
the land would be easily drained, and that the stream of
water in the vicinity could be easily diverted and made avail-
able for prison purposes.
Mr. Ald. EARLE said he did not mean to offer any opposition
to the motion, as he thought it impossible to injure the con-
tiguous property more than it was already by the railway. He
confessed that when he first heard of the proposal he was
greatly surprised, as the land was low and damp, marshy all
the way down to the river, with a sluggish brook running
through it. Those who lived in the vicinity said a distinct
fog could be seen in damp weather rising all over the surface.
He did not speak because of his family property in the
vicinity, but he was doubtful of the practicability of effectually
draining the land. He could not see how it could be done
without carrying a drain through the land of Mr. Leigh,
through their own lands and that of the Earl of Sefton, all
the way down to the river. He hoped, however, if the gaol
were built, that there would be a reception-room for the
ladies and gentlemen who want to visit their friends in the
gaol, as it was a great nuisance to see them waiting in the
prison.
The MAYOR said, the plan included a room of this des-
cription alluded to.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE said he had lived 25 years in the
house, and had never heard of its being damp.
Mr. BLACKBURN hoped the drainage would have full con-
sideration, es, in land so low, the subject was of great im-
portaoce, he thought Kirk dale offered a much more eligible
situation ; the site pointed out there was on a hill, and had
the benefit of a plentiful supply of fresh air. The damage
to the neighbourhood ought not to be considered, but he
might mention that there was a large gaol already at Kirk-
dale, so that the neighbourhood there could not suffer;
Mr. JOHN HoLst ES said the Surveyor had reported that the
land at Wavertree-hall would be easily drained. As to the
land at Kirkdale they could not get it at any reasonable
price.

Mr. EVANS said the difference in the price would be suf-
ficient to pay for the drainings of the land four times over.
Mr. JOHN SHAW LEIGH said they would not hare the
power to drain it, as he considered his land would be ruined
by the measure, and he would not allow them to come one
inch within his property.
Mr. EARLE said, so far as he was concerned, and he could
speak for the members of his family, lie should he most
happy to grant every facility for the drainage of the land ; his
only fear was that it could not he done effectually.
Mr. BLACKBUAN adverted to the lowness of some of the
land, and expressed his opinion that it could not be properly
drained.
Mr. JOHN SHAW LEIGH : I hold the key of it however.
Mr. BUSHELL could see no difficulty in draining the land.
The surface was most favourable, consisting, first, of about
two feet of soil, next, about the same depth of clay, about an
epual depth of sand, and then the solid rock. It was con-
tended that the property would be injured, from which it
appeared that gentlemen had chosen to build mansions about
the place, which offered a sufficient answer to the objections
on the score of salubrity.
Mr. EARLE said the only mansion in the immediate neigh-
bourhood was Wavertree hall.
Mr. NORTE; said when the site was first named to him it
struck him as the most ineligible that could be chosen. He
had spoken with Mr. Cunningham on the subject, and the
opinion of that intelligent and experienced gentleman was,
that it could never be drained. Mr. North proceeded to urge
as objections to the site, that it would be improper to place
a gaol on the only spot in the vicinity which was not visited
by the sea breeze ; that Mr. Leigh's land would be injured
and that it was possible the latter would be laid out in brick
fields.

Mr. BLACKBURN again urged the superior eligibility of
Lord Derby's land, at Kirkdale.
Sir THOMAS BRANCKER said, Lord Derby's land was not
of the proper shape, nor was it of the proper dimensions.
The committee had been pressed by the government and the
magistrates, and they had sought in all directions without
finding any land so proper for the purpose as this.
Mr. PARKER wished to hear what other situations had
been offered beside that recommended.
Mr. LAWRENCE read a list of the situations inspected,
including property belonging to the Earl of Derby, J. S.
Leigh, Mr. Rigby, Mr. Faulkner, and others.
Mr. THOMPSON was desirous that the Surveyor should be
called in and his opinion taken.
Mr. EARLE said, he had been of opinion from the first that
Major Jebb ought to have been present at this deliberation.
Mr. PARKER moved, as an amendment, that the purchase
of the Wavertree Ilall estate for the site of a prison, he re-
ferred back for further consideration, and the report of the
Finance Committee.
Mr. SHEPPARD strenuously advocated the posponement
of the decision of the council relative to the fixing of the site
for the new gaol, until more information could be obtained
touching the sewerage of the land at Wavertree-hall. He
further recommended that the site for the new gaol should
be fixed, if at all possible, at Kirkdale, alleging that it was a
more desirable situation for such a building, owing to the
salubrious breeze from the river than Wavertree-hall ; that
the health of the prisoners must be maturely considered, par-
ticularly those of debtors, who were frequently incarcerated
not from any fault& of their own, hut owing to unforeseen
misfortunes.
Several members exclaimed—" A sufficient quantity of
land cannot be obtained at Kirkdale."
, Mr. SHEPPARD, in continuation.—Then try and make
another attempt to procure the land as near as possible to
Kirkdale. At all events, let the council pause ere it decides
upon the site at Wavertree-hall, until further information
can be obtained about the sewerage.
Mr. PRIESIITLEY stated his objections to the proposed site.
Several members having expressed a wish that the sur-
veyor should be called in,
Mr. LLOYD said he thought it would be wrong to call in
an officer and question him so that his answers should go be-
fore the public.
The MAYOR said he could see no objection whatever to
such a course, and Mr. Franklin was accordingly called in.
Mr. FRANKLIN, in reply to questions put to him by mem-
bers of the council, said there was in the land a fall of 13
feet, which would be sufficient for all purposes. '1 here would
be a fall of 10 feet from the lowest part of the foundation of
the gaol to the level of the brook ; be had no doubt that the
fall was sufficient to enable them to accomplish the drainage
effectually ; the nature of the soil was very favourable ; he
(the surveyor) had taken a level of 150 yards of the flattest
part of the land, and he found in that 150 yards a fall of 3i
feet and the fall seemed to be regular farther on.
Mr. Franklin having retired,
Mr. Alderman FvANs • said the question now had resolved
itself into one of drainage, and he contended that was entirely
decided. With regard to the neighbourhood, people ought
to reflect it was the vast increase of Liverpool that had given
a household value to mere farming land •, and those who re-
ceived the value upon the one hand ought not to shrink from
the inconvenience which arose from the enlargement of the
town upon the other. But what astonished and grieved him,
was to hear the sentiments uttered by a gentleman who had
beehn honoured with the mayoralty of Liverpool, who declared
Eva give it no other language than it was
out of spite—he could refuse the drainage going through his
land.
J. S. LEIGH.—If I can prevent by that I would.
Mr. Alderman EvANs.—Now, he (Mr. Evaus) would
if that gentleman had to come before the council again, say,
if he
(Mr. Evans) were alone in the place he would rime up against
him (Mr. Leigh)
ofdholing any place of honour in the town,
after a declaration that sort.
Mr. J. S. Litiorii.-1 have done with it.
Mr. Alderman EvANs.—How admirably In contrast was
the declaration of another ex.mayor, who had stated he
should be happy to give every facility through his land.
Mr. J. S. LEIGH explained, he made the declaration more
in terrorem than in reality.
Mr. Alderman EvANs.—That was exceedingly professional
like,—(laughter)—ano it was not the first thing of the kind
he 'had seen from the predominance of professional men
there. Mr. Evans then contended that the purchase of this
property ought to be made, on the ground that it was very
heap.

Mr. G. 11. LAWRENCE read against the memorial, from
from some of the inhabitants of \Vest Derby Ward.
Mr. AIKIN pointed out the advantages of inquiry into the
management of gaol, and renewed his arguments on the
propriety of providing a
_hulk for juvenile offenders. Mr.
Aikin was about to move for a cotnmittee, when lie was re-
minded that he was out of order.
Mr. TURNER supported the original motion.
Mr. Ttf
ompron contendedi at grilYlt that the sits
not be drithiell4
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