The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-12 00:00:00

we
azgels.)was so 1:1:
profit realized. Besides,
(Concludedth
efrratePaoe
labouring classes had not (he would not say the 10
that was out of the question, but) the bare necessarief
Lord ALTHORP had decided objections to this mail,
hon. member had asked him whether the government P
recently applying itself to the reduction of expen 1„'
that he would answer, that the first step which the
took after it was admitted into office was to place ,tl;;at
salaries under the consideration of a committee. 1:
mittee made several recommendations, which the gova,
adopted, and their salaries were in consequence reduced
members of the government had commenced the tasl'Orl
tion with their own salaries, in order that they
right to call upon
_ their subordinate officers to submit wfit?/‘
reductions. He certainly thought that the goverurtie"
to be served as cheaply as possible., The scale of salarYZ
be that which was calculated to secure a fit and efficiciltifl
for the office. He was aware that the salaries of per° oft
ployed by the government were higher than the salaries. bit,
sons employed by private individuals, but they were 01,1?,,
than those of persons employed by _public companies•_,,f
lieved that the salaries paid by the East India Corar; •
by the insurance companies, were to the full as high
paid by the government. Their superannuations were,
iieved, still higher. It was known that in the KO el,
offices the plan adopted with regard to superannuatioss
upon the deduction of a certain sum annually from the
to secure a fund for the future support of the holders °f
A report had been made to the government of the amoi9
comes enjoyed by members of the different revenite
with the intention of seeing what reduction, if any, Ctirofd
made in their salaries. A great object with governmerio
see how the public business could be done with as great ei
as possible, but at the same time giving to those eillil/4°V.
the public service such remuneration as would insure t,htf
ness being done in the best manner, and take from;as;
sons so employed the tamptation of defrauding the reveli;
would be a very ill-judged economy to keep those al,'
the service of the public at such small salaries as woula,,
them to the temptation of acting. dishonestly or careless'liA
again hoped that the hon. member would not press hisl/41/4.04
He could not consent to it in its present form, yet he
willing to divide against it, as it might expose him to 1/4
impression. oefo
Mr. ROBINSON concurred in hoping that the hon.,),et,
would withdraw the motion, as he admitted that an
nate reduction of the salaries of all officers would be rs'e,l
'tient ; and, in some instances, its operation would n°"bie
partial to many officers. He was willing to give the 13°„r,
and his colleagues all the credit they claimed for the 11,
reductions, but he must say that those reductions would 1,
partitively of little benefit to the public until they did 013;r,
superannuation allowances and civil pensions altogetl,o
gentleman served 23 years as a commissioner of custovoatil
salary of £l4OO a year, who was superannuated on ace
deafness, though that deafness existed- from the terrnoi a
pointment, and was allowed a retiring salary of EWA) r, ,
though he had a private fortune of £lO,OOO a year. alet!iity
and Oh !) A superannuation allowance of this kind wag
in defensible. •
Mr. CORBETT said that one thing came out in this discV
—that the Whigs did not like to sleep three in a bed• aid
did not like to have places crowded, and therefore they
man out to make way for another. he had seen 00.'1100
amongst many others, where a man who had held a big d
tion, of which he was well able to discharge the duties, Po'
sent out to make way for another, and thus the (OIL el
burdened with the retiring allowance of the party who 1"-ot 011
to give way. (Cries of "Name.") He had no wika
tion names, but as he had been called upon to do so, Padl
mention the names. The individual to whom he alto 00
Sir Charles Saxton, who held a high situation in oneof
dockyards, but who had been obliged to retire to make
Sir George Grey, and who received, on his Yetireme°,4
lowance of £BOO a year.
# rice
Mr. VERNON SMITH, referring to the circumska-
tioned by the hon. member for Worcester (Mr. Robitl;tet
the commissioner of customs who had been superanotliel
deafness, with a retiring allowance of £l2OO a year, ousel
that he did not know whether such retirement took pia
the late government or not; but he could state, that 110
sury minute of the present government the retiring no
of officers was reduced to one-fifth less than the scale
in the Superannuation Act. It was in the discretion
meat to say when a man should be allowed to retif
annuation, but when so allowed the question of th
his private fortune was one into which the Treasul
fairly inquire. The retiring allowance must dep
amount of salary he had received and the length of
been employed.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON said that those who were acqi
the duties which many of the persons employed 11
of the East India Company had to perform would
surprise that their remuneration was ample. W
vernment wanted persons to fill certain situations,
inquire whether it could not get men equally qualit
without any expectation of a retiring allowance. I.
get such men, he did not see why they should not I
and thus save the vast sums which the country tv
retiring allowances. The case would be different
to make the selection from a small number of ql
sous, or if the employed, such as a barrister, ha,
his profession for the appointment ; but here it wf
and when they had to choose out of a large body
men, they ought to make the selection of those
be willing to take the appointment without any hof
annuation allowance.
Mr. Fielden (of Oldham,) Mr. Wynn Ellis, Mr.
Marshall, and Mr. Brocklehurst, successively ad,
house, on the subject of the comparative low rat,
and high rate of salaries given to official persons.
Mr. BERNARD (as we understood) wished to me;
tion of the house to the question that was real,
(Hear, hear.) It should be observed, that the sala- ,
sters and of other public functionaries had been rais,l;if
sequence of the depressed vaiue of the currency. .1 al
had frequently been alluded to by different gentleraco;st
was sorry to say that it had never received the smallebe
tion. He hoped that the question of wages would
and more made the subject of discussion in that house; e
trusted that those gentlemen who really had the welPlVe
country, at heart, whether they sat on that side or the t), f
of the house, would warn ministers of the necessity °.
ing to the wants of the people. They must have log
anu profits, or low taxes. (Ilear, hear.)
After a few remarks from Mr. R. Steuart and Mr'
the gallery was cleared for a division. No division,
took place. The motion, we understood, was withdr
NEW HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. Hum rose to submit to the house the motif
he had given notice, for referring. to a select co'
report of the committee of last session, relativ-
of erecting a new House of Commons. He
gallant officer, not then a member of the hou.
many other members, had felt that it did not
accommodation for the members who were ca.,
ble, and that, in consequence, they could not
duties comfortably. A committee was theref
inquire whether any and what alterations coul,
what improvements could be made in the presel
due accommodation of the members. The re,-
mittee would at once show the object which
alike in view: The committee was occupied
time in ascertaining whether the house iu wh,
could be altered so as to afford the accommi
and the evidence which he then held in his
every person,. that neither as regarded space,
other conveniences, was it possible to make sf
the existing house as would meet the object
stated that the length of the chamber might bf
by which 70 or 80 members would be accomi
there was no mode of increasing its width. F
of Sir J. Wyatville, it would appear that the h,
feet in width by 49 in length; and that as to ac,
could not fairly hold much more than one-half
It seemed that 348 individuals, not includi
strangers' gallery, might be inconveniently
But, if the seats were placed at such a dist;
gentlemen to pass each other easily (which it
ordinary-sized men to do at present) then, it w.
294 persons could sit comfortably: In no place %
ant business was transacted was the accommor
ingly bad. On this point he would refer to the
e.
member who recollected what passed a few nig'
occasion every seat below the gallery was quite
366 members had any thing like accommodr
between the. Seats under the galleVy. were
ordinary width, so that it was almost impossi,
members were, in fact, wedged in, almost
barrel. (Laughter.) It was a shame that t
neat countyshould be transacted in a situa,
wl
Men who uncomfortable. (Hear, hear.) 0
their duties for 12 or 14 hours in that house t!
with every possible accommodation. He cow
ps in that inconven.
.11
He believed the ablest men
sated lace.
they had failed in effecting the object, had
own observation, that several members had '
the discharge of their duties
ventilate and purify that ousethoroughly-

10.,01ae be believedal_lterghileerlerrht, eaneoa:llrmeramosiatttienueendathnoiVirhaoltreherisesonisutlltob,i;
first, "That it is the opinion of this e,
"eat Housenf Commons•does not afford ad
4,41,4 for the members." He believed that
leilent 'voice could be found opposed to this
Itik,
(IT, no," and "Hear, hear.") If there we
:ter e Sserated from it, certainly their ideas 01
different from his. The second resolutio
t'.'n accommodation or improvement as the
fo'e called for could be made in the present 11(
r the
41,4 general convenience of the members."
that th°ll ,in which they were at present place
Prastiee_Y tos.t from twenty to forty minutes in
gu •„, eof dividing, which rendered it neeessar,
atltlnG the lobby. It was frequently with the g
kebsTMetiraes not without using gentle force (a
out the were got out. If they continued tilt
gener..„ minority in which number, he feare(
th(liviliq found (a laugh,) the consequence wo 04 i_als who came early would be deprive
1,04),i,Pu0 to rtaut occasions and others who had
ke ion 'of them. Hear, hea
thefrrivate billss he had known men to sit and t •
vinclinations rather than run the risk of lo
ilase'ng Gut. (Hear, hear.) He had kno•
nai-tr,,ntained fast asleep in their places, are
Ntle'ras supporting the very motion to whic
e a nn aivisions they could save half at
Were It °n
of very considerable importance,
„ll' a variety of business. Now, with r
l
rt:e
tthwti
Id:
eetvi
:oshhuooorsuueeu.
ess
reebte,hyotahrht
le
rAk
ioulmwnrn,
.odnguel
Aolirdenus
yt
ttobhooweend thaturequiredoibibyffeo rNeedfxceotapxr
net
,naeltl
kier 13light be enlarged in the direction of
ng
the
el3auiti twhoeuyldwbaentoebdstprruocpteedr yb-eynttihleati3
!.It gallery 'build was, therefore, objec
sinif,4l)roposed to in a direct line betw
Y river- To thatproposition he believed th
tihjisseutin. voice. lu England they were
evect to public buildings; but he could r
iillet,Bel.
jhesitation in saying, that where busiue
toted.lllortance was transacted, those by whc
tgeteCmiold be allowed the utmost possible a
ittetiso he felt no unwillingness whatever o
Lear -cto him that consideration was a m
Za.) Looking to the national expend
kilieeiev„-',,anner in which the public money w
1,41(41h-g, that the propriety of devoting a sum t
nad described would not admit of any
twtisa4gtet.Utletnen, he knew, cherished a strong
oayry kil't!".t had passed in that house, and were, in
sat/tinns.that no change should take place.
);"(inis!r into the feelings of gentlemen on that
„Thll., utility was what they ought principi
Gn.that ground alone, he was anxiout
2)ktiabTrward. There was a part of the house
Feat
ala,',4Yhtee prat .ro;rtl.spa(cAe
bperloowlonthgeedbcaryr
afoot.
r•d,,8..1
tual illustration of the hon. member
tZlices'ver plan might be adopted he hoped that
ki.„111(11).4t Present felt would be remedied. I
teihip;„.4 subject for future consideration : he
ts,bvery° Li' be done hastily. He thought it woi
kcs„,„!tie, from the few observations he had in
Ifrnodation than the house now afforder
tte otei Proposed to move that the report of th
tk,Nes).„,lllst session, for making the house more
10-. To t.',4 to a select committee, and that the c
itb t° report their observations and opinio
)1,-14 "f's,e, He believed that the noble ford
rcoti,;„- ...is course. The committee could call f
ei
been
have plans and estimates laid
eta , ',keen. a proposition to remove the lion
ei -lin he felt satisfied that a better buil&
et,,,,,,5e Where, but they could not well alter tilt
14,6 t. aa-c't°ns without changing that of the Lords
jhst as he believed they were not prepared t(
the House of Commons. Th
"t'toresl‘sji-t:toctea(igniyeaotflaughter), it woinu be better
des with a motion to the effect before sta
IltuaroN seconded the motion, and rel
kr. Smirke, from which it appeared th
iodation for more than 350 members i
'tie space under the gallery, and allowinF
Aalf for each individual. 560 members
and, according to the calculation, 210
lot have found convenient Owes. He
.Persons thought a space of one foot eigl
tht inches sufficient for each member, an
.11 t.'" the house would accommodate more ti
; nsider the space allowed bya Mr. Smirk,
4t be borne in mind that members who
usuallyugh t e rroel ua u
i rceodssd consideration
byonwhich,
o two , rathertai
ii
old show that there was not acconimodati
Members. He objected to the ()blot'
',lnconvenient and every way inferior ti
:I°:nteh would admit of a better position for
trek
he now occupied. "Sir," continue
it°4 have not, like Janus, eyes in your
'llnot always see in every direction. (G:
IY, Sir, you have not eyes in the back of
not see what goes on in that part of the
its r, which is called, I suppose, from t 1
liar
occupants Solomon's porch. (Laug.htc
"ar, there is 'frequently the greatest diso:
ivented if you could have your eye on e
,a'llgh.) On these grounds, of its
inconvenient shape, bad air
it-t4-,` with the present house. One of the
newt
totaAtan held in view for constructing a
carried on without interrupting any o
('pllettler inlhe house or in the cominittee.
N-e completed by the commencement a
ALT
02itoa-R°llP admitted that when there was a
vl,k:o4ttrytalienee was felt, and such being the c.
to decide upon what was
.best.to be dont
ktl/4)::4l:4l)rider this in the light of a ministerial or part:
kliellktlto the house to consider as individua(,
t toun necessary._ Itewxltsutehcli raelucieressu
p,llll.(iltaat'inotlO•.olyf tritlhatsethe
bruet he was accessible
t5101;44 objeectiuon 'to a select committee
t, 'lignite into the subject.
la •
‘ tki rts agreed with the hon. member for
itte, should not constitute an obstacle to thl
Iteration appeared to be necessary;
not whether the house afforded sul
two or three nights in the year—sucl
it whether it was adequate to the trap
every-day business? Had any gentle
which the ordinary business of Parlian
han in the present house ? The rea
was there not ample aceorc
the country was done by houses col
'? It was better to have the house too
to year than too large on all the ?email
ittuals ever formed a deliberative E
eted to any alteration, on the grou
feeling that might be produced by
associations, and the abandonment
:(nlectieus of the noblest patriotism, an,
nee.
tREk observed, that he dissented altogc
house.
tug the best interests of the country
-e of members took place: and those
the hon. baronet; it was
iilliOneekBinsweb(hieerbnsy: it was most important to
hieh the house did not now present.
.uss°rq said that, according to the h
room for such an attendance as gen
.se of a turnpike-bill, but when great a
le
"1Y
AnetsptirTsen'talhaesre
1°11t;s arose, it mattered not if the hom
b
'iea°ll for one-half the members who
"'• moral feelings and associations
still lid, that towatshenoateco.m
eing the case, steps must be

RAm said a few words, which were not

expel:kneed
,RD had sat in three Parliaments, an
He did not agree with the hon. me
tking a space of two feet nectss.ry fl
each member. It was well known tl
el within a space of 18 inches. WI
liament occupy a larger space? (Grc
tans (laughter, which was renewed on
ing the words, which he did three sere
no deficiency of accom
latent in the house allowed him to pros
Itered the size of the Forum kontanun
(Iv _2r.) He wished to follow the examp
'4llg,hiter); hs did not want to get rid of the

le ,
on of
ire 00 'opt! W
ski
ata°6l,llj jt,k4te
12'5° till 11:11:IZt°41(
r tittle j 244; ut,
Painteerop qZutd
tn the 41, tic
not feele (VDik!'t ai eiDe'
'hen tb°',e
it ought-tle p tl
Ifll4, v" 41"
If tile) tt, • ettliel?itqd
Pref",ji(l Plvoes
now P t 4 w(1
if the 4,tio4tota
quali6 I,qte
ti,(1108
ad;as otP"
of er„4, hi
Yc
wh°
,p, y ea.
° /44 tilllteatiY
,rolcis6rieolsifseoj.\;ghat the its
tae d
ttie L, ha
all tile °re be
bet° t(lta lai
ily. „poi tlq (1141 rtioa
arks Kth d t
_,„a 0,1 i:4thc,44l,

Ileea ktNi, but
It twire sho
tr 114 Nt4.4„-"e al
observeekic', tele, 7tiside
use, of iiv'4e" I ' \\ti on
ailed oil 4001 r,),,,e be toe 4)
it disq3l?l,, al' "tit htttler e
fed' DI% • don Ni
fore ap t 11,4141.
Id be etd,,co,j th,'44,lv f
th
sent howtha' b, 't r
eport (1 I'Boo ef.(14Y(1111; br?
they '''',3sjacsf 10. 4.0011;411 the
:t taotrot1:10:0,01
for a e°, 0°,,1 411', •4(iio.
iich the% req-aii• ere 131)j:
kodatiatliot 14,444140ti0.
hand tiati'ol le *eti tlett
ntilA
ve• iter° It ji h et,recd
;Itch 3",(1. 50' o
propos aed it ~,mi
,e este°A ba.A )
mouate'" affect'.
From the - C4,1„1
house `s.
olatnib tt'N ?eeasi
accom2:,oe-,,
If of t"Cose * • PR
iing t"a tog' t 4 I(°'
00-de e' ,' 4thbe 1
cr le k4t e caz
.anee nOSS' ke qUestil
vas Or! i toa,
stn "'"
h-as 5 sue Itt, ta;
where so e "ere the
sdation e j „ 1)), th
,xperienc 00' 1 Bt. °' e
ag% yet
full, aliThe
latioa•° oe..b
onlY uass•
ible. tO irriug9e °Wm
like 11F css 010 ~)I,4"ad
b, bus°3 care e' . I
'n sa elinD y aim:
otwe atte° 50' tit of
mere
t° hefaroaig,l NI stood
Parl
Gale° s3deill-ve horn;
Efiglamij .1148,11`e„el'ia
been e—getifi 441eer at
iniiiedntstaalt::;itfit:_!{ eat n
(gear' (I.4hter.