The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-06-16 00:00:00

t the proposed reduction was in fact

moved for, inasmuch as it would
id he therefore hoped it would

commence immediate
not be entertained by the committee
After some discussion, Ali. 31AciuNNoN withdrew hie

amendment

WILLIAMS then adverted to the appointments held by
,Ind also said that there was a Duke
or grandfather of the present
one • on this country, and had
it -ars. The sums paid to
imam who were allied to our
- - —nom. This

the Duke of Cambric:

of Alecklenhor

duke, who was already
been so for a per
these German pr
royal family already amounted to ,
fact and the distressed condition of the country justified him
in opposing the grant.

of forty-five

Sir il. DOUGLAS supported the nu
grand

liter of that monarch

a grant to the

ho had voluntarily sur

ered the immense revenues of the crown to the contra
tt.

parliar,

Sir R. Pratt eventually consented to postpone the discus
sion until Wednesday.

Colonel ItusHukto-otcx then moved a new writ for the bo

rough of Sudbury

Mr. TUFN EL moved, as an amendment. that leave be given
to bring in a bill for effectual inquiry into bribery and corrupt
practices said to exist in the horotigh of Sudbury, the inquiry
which took place before the liouse of Lords having been
wholly inadequate. He contended that it was impossible
that the House of Commons could agree to the issue of a
writ atter having passed a bill to disfranchise the borough.
He proposed that the commissioners of inquiry should be
empowered to go down to Sudbury, in order that the hives-

tigation might be thoroughly carried out.
Mr. C. W. WYNN said that the house would scarcely do

would therefore move as an amendment that a committee
should be appointed to inquire into the causes which led the
House of Lords to throw out the bill for thedisfranchisement
of Sudbury.

Mr. Tui•NELL withdrew his amendment to make room for
that of Mr. Wynn.
Colonel RusitBROOKE contended that the evidence did not
affect the whole of the constituency, and he would therefore
take the sense of the house on his motion.
Sir R. PEEL said that after the house had almost unani-
mously past.cd the Sudbury Disfranchisement bill some in-
formation was required .in order to explain why such very
imperfect evidence had been placed before the House of
Lords. This inquiry might perhaps justify the bill of Mr.
Tufnell, and should therefore precede it.
Colonel RUSUBROOK withdrew his motion, and Mr. Wynn's
amendment was agreed to.
Mr. TUVNELL then mot ed that the writ for Sudbury
should he suspended for one month, which was agreed to.
On the motion fur the house resolving itself into a com-
mittee of ways and means,

Lord HowicK moved as an amendment for a committee of
the whole house on so much of the act 5 and 6 Victoria, c.
47 as related to the imposition of a duty on the exportation
of coals. His object was to obtain a repeal of the duty im-
posed last year, which could not have been laid on for the
purpose of. economising our supply of coals, because it had
been estimated that the coal fields of Durham and Northum-
betland would last for upwards of 1700 years, without taking
into account the supplies from Staffordshire and the other
inland counties. As there was nu f

of exhausting the
supply, there was no reason why our shipping interest should
he injured to the extent to which they were damnified by
that measure. It had caused the trade to fall off one-third,
although that trade had for some years previously increased
ten-fold under the system of free trade. In Germany and
other countries they were increasing the facilities of convey-

ance so far that if once they were enabled to supply the de-
mand which we were by this duty refusing to satisfy, we might
vainly seek hereafter to recover the trade by a reduction of
that duty to which its loss was to be attributed. As an il-
lustration of such short-sighted policy as that of attempting
to compel our neighbours to submit to taxation for our
benefit he quoted the case of Naples, which had sought to
compel this country to pay a tax which it levied upon the
expor►ation of sulphur. The result was, that our chemists
and manufacturers at home Lever rested until they had ac-
complished the manufacture of sulphur here, and thus after
Naples had retraced her policy she found that nevertheless
this country had been enabled to maintain competition with
her in our own markets, and that a considerable portion of
the trade in that article had been consequently lost to that
country. The proprietors of the Great Western steam-ship
were in the habit of sending out coals to America for the
consumption of the 'return voyage. The duty prevented
their doing so any longer, and they were now compelled to
make the return voyage with American coal. The right hon.
baronet had estimated the produce from the coal duty at
£140,000, but it had i,olv produced £lOO,OOO, from which
was to be deducted .£12,000, the amount of the former duty.
This miscalculation, however, was' not the only evil, for
he believed that the Treasury was a loser rather than a
gainer by a measure which by its indirect opera:ion affected
every branch of trade in the kingdom. _ _ _

Mr. GLADSTONE said he should not at that late hour reply
to the invectives against the Government, with which the
noble lord had interspersed his speech. He admitted that a
tax upon one branch of export necessarily had an effect upon
all other articles connected with it, and he els.) admitted that
to regain a trade once lost was tar more difficult than was its
original attainment; but these were general propositions
which no one would dispute. The real question was whether
the finances of the country were in such a position as'to per-
mit the opening up of the discussion of the repeal duties.
The short experience of nine months was not sufficient to
test the policy of this duty, which was not adopted until
after the fullest consideration. The tight honourable gentle-
man contended at some length that the duty ,vas perfectly
justifiable under the circumstances of the conntry, and that
the estimates upon which Lord liowick bud grounded his
opposition to it were fallacious. The falling off in the expor-
tation of coals, as shown by the noble lord, was only a falling
off as compared with the trade of last year; but last year's
trade was unnaturally swelled by the enormous exportation
which took place in anticipation of the duty. He was notof
that the pressure on the shipping interest was to be

attributed to thin tax, but rather to itie general depression
trade; nor did be think any case had been made out callin
for the interference of the bonse.
Mr. H. HINDI': said that the defence of the tax by M►
Gladstone amounted only to this, that the shipping interest
were not so badly otf as they might have been. Ile though
that no answer bad been given to the case made out by Lor
Howick.__

Lord HARRY VANE said that the result of the tax wool
be to cause English capitalists to go over to France, to woe
the coal mines in that country, of which there were no lea
than sixty one open, though not worked.
Mr. BELL would support the motion, though be did 111
think it well-timed and had done all he could to ►nduce Lou
Hoi;iek not to bring it forward.
Sir G. CLERK contended that the tax bad not depreciate
the shipping and trading interests as was insisted upon I
the noble lord.
Mr. LABOUCHERE contended that the coal and spirit di
ties, which had been last year laid on, were wholly failures
measures of revenue, while they had inflicted great mischi
on the shipping and other interests of the country. I
should vote against the tax because the evil it was produci►
was out of all proportion to the amount of revenue it broug

Sir ROBERT PEEL reminded the house that there was still
a deficit in the revenue to meet the expenditure, and they
were not therefore in a position to listen to propositions for
the reduction of taxes. With respect to the diminution of
our export of coals to the United States, it was to be accoun-
ted for by the fact that those states had levied a duty of no
less than 8s a ton on the importation of British coal. ,They
had not sufficient experience to judge of the operation of the
tax, and he therefore hoped the house would support the Go-
vernment in opposing the motion of the noble lord.
Mr. LIDDELL said that although in point of time he thought
the motion of Lord llowick injudicious, yet he should give
it his support. The motion being lost on division, by 187
to 124, the house went into committee pro forma, and re-
sumed. _ _ _

The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the house adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS—TvEsnAy

The Duke of WELLINGTON moved that an address be pre-
sented to her Majesty, thanking her Majesty for her most
gracious tnessage respecting a provision for her Royal Iligh-
ness the Princess Augn,:ta of Cambridge, and expressing their
lordships readiness to take into consideration any proposition
which might be submitted to them. _

Earl FORTESCUE quite agreed in the propriety of the tnes-
ee ; but called attention to the marriages of the Duke: of

Sussex, who had left two children unprovided for, and for
whom some provision ought to be made.
The Duke Of WELLINGTON said that the facts were only
^nerally ; but at all

were to the world

ini as tl

lia,•• a.
events their case could not be considered in connection with

The Earl of A usae

N then move

the bill for regulatio

the admission of ministers to benelic

in the Church of Scotland

ROSEBERRY opposed the second rf.

icy, bu

s assent

amendment, that the bill be read a second time that

nionths.
Lord Bnovca Am had no doubt whatever of the sincerit
And honesty of the seceders, but thought the course. they hal

pursued very In
they would find

hat they would separate into sec

bill of t

they would exp

xception of some few popula

themselves and their families

to cono

[id that gratification be was not tlis

posed to

e then

upon them priv

turd then analysed the prov

as of the bill, which

it, he contended, consistent with the existing law.
Lord CAMP3iiLL thought that legislation of some kind was

644 VA ht los

1 thoFptar,

IIOUSE OP COMMONS.-

:rt of t
lmitted

of fore

ously disappointed

xas att

mount of

r to the ha

The bla

During thi

s produce, the del'

found himself grij

e of these inundations of corn

ble to reckless spec

but speculat or

hoped, there always would be ; and if they were sometimes
reckless, it was to be remembered that it was the law which
so. Our corn laws were not so restrictive. prior
nd the law since

to 1804 as they were at a

present time

1815 had not only been more stringent, hut it carried with it
the additional evil of being applied to a largely-increased
1. To meet this latter evil the government had
s..d a small change in the sliding scale, and a law
,e importation of corn from Canada, as soon as it
tained that no corn was likely to be obtained
The noble lord then quoted from Mr. Web-
r's recent speech at Baltimore passages to show how all-
-taut it was to commercial men to have certainty in le-
and he also quoted Adam Smith and other autbo-

ascerta)

cities to show that it required extreme caution to change
even from a bad system to a good one. Aware of this, he

_ purpose an immediate and total repeal of the corn
w. but should submit for the consideration of the house
option of a moderate fixed duty, and he proposed to
ertain the precise amount which

would be the fairest compromise between existing interests.
He still thought that in times of scarcity the government
should have power to suspend the fixed duty if certain occur-

rences too

k place, which occurrences were

under a fix 6