The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-09-01 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.....THURSDAT.

The letters patent appointing J. W. Birch, Esq., clerk-as-
sistant to parliament; in the room of Wm. Courtenay, Esq.,
now Earl of Devon, and W. Rose, Esq., to the office of reading-
clerk at the table, were read.
Some bills were brought up to the House of Commons, which
were read a first time. _ _

The Earl of RADNOIt moved for a return of the number of
base born children affiliated by order of the sessions in each
county in England and Wales at the Michaelmas sessions of
1834, and at the Epiphany, Easter, and Midsummer sessions of
1835 respectively.—Ordered.
SHERIFFS (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of Viscount DUNRAI•NON the house went into
committee on and passed the bill through that stage.

GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY BILL

On the motion of Lord Wn A RNCLIFFEIherePort of the com-
mittee to whom this bill had been referred was ordered to be
received.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL.
Viscount Melbourne, in moving that the report on this bil'
be received, begged to guard himself most explicitly agains.
being supposed to give any sanction or any approbation to the
amendments which their lordships had thought proper to intro-
duce into this bill. In his opinion those amendments greatly
diminished the benefits of, and considerably deteriorated the
bill as originallybrought up from the House of Commons. He
thought their lordships in consenting to those amendments had
been agitated by unreasonable fears and unnecessary apprelien-
sions of evils not likely to take place from the measure as it was
originally brought under their consideration, and that to those
unsubstantial evils their lordships had applied most inefficient
remedies. Ile thought their lordships had completely departed
from the clear, simple, plain, intelligible, safe, and secure prin-
ciple upon which the bill was founded and sent up to their lord-
ships, and in its stead had adopted a principle comprising com-
plexity, intricacy, and every variety of provisions, none of which
would, in his (Viscount Melbourne's) judgment, have the effect
which lie beheved had been intended, but, on the contrary,
would be productive of most prejudicial effects upon this country,
because nothing was more certain than that the law which did
not produce the benefits anticipated from it, the law that failed
to guard against the evils which it was designed to remove, was
certain to produce other effects not anticipated by those who
introduced those laws—effects which were certain to be of a
prejudicial nature. (Hear, bear.) At the same time, consider-
ing the great importance of this bill, and the equal importance
that the question to which it related should be settled if possible
—considering that the feelings of the country had been increased
by the sudden and unexpected manner in which the opposition
to this measure had been raised in this house, and by the altera-
tions which had been made by their lordships—he repeated,
considering all these important elements, he was for one not
disposed to offer any obstacles in the way of now receiving those
amendments. (Hear.) At the same time, in so doing he must
beg leave to state that he could not answer for the assent of the
other house of parliament being given to any of those amend-
ments either in Coto, or to any portion of them. He, however,
thought it was due to the attention which had been bestowed by
their lordships upon the bill, that their amendments should be
submitted to the mature and deliberate consideration of the
other house of parliament. it was not, therefore, his intention
to trouble their lordships by going into any of the various topics
and questions that had arisen on this bill—a bill which had been
discussed at so much length, but upon the bringing up of the
report he should, nevertheless, feel it his duty to move the
omission of those amended provisions of the bill which appeared
to him to be most objectionable, and by such omission to endea-
vour to place the bill in the same situation and form in which it
was brought up from the other house. He should, amongst
others, move the omission of the clause saving the rights of the
freemen—a clause, in his judgment, peculiarly. objectionable.
He should also move to omit the clause recognizing the rights
of aldermen for life, he should also endeavour to replace the
qualification clause for the council in the same state in which it
had been brought up from the House of Commons. He did not
believe that the qualification clause which had been introduced
by the noble and learned lord (Lyndhurst) into the bill would
at all tend to the object which he felt satisfied noble lords oppo-
site themselves had in view. It was unsuitable to the state of
many of the towns to which it would under the bill be applied ;
for property afforded no certain criterion of talent or respect-
ability, and the effect (as he was given to understand) of a pro-
perty qualification would in many towns be to exclude persons
of respectability and worth, while it admitted individuals of a
very different description into the governing body of such towns.
The same amount of evil would arise from the qualification
iclause proposed by his noble friend opposite (the Earl of Devon; )
'that clause was liable to all the objections which could be raised
against the other, would also fail in its object, and was of a
prejudicial character. (Hear.) The clause of his noble friend
would not be effectual in itself, for it would exclude no one, and
of those excluded the majority might be honest men, While those
admitted might be fraudulent in declaring themselves to be pos-
sessed of property to an amount which they really did not possess.
He would not now say more than that he should move to omit
these amendments on the bringing up of the report; and upon
the qualification clause, and that relating to the aldermen for
life, he should feel it his duty to take the sense of the house.
A long and animated debate ensued, at the close of which the
report was received.
Viscount MELBOURNE said that, if he had thought any seri-
ous opposition would have been offered to the amendment he
meant to propose with reference to the 6th clause, he certainly
should have felt it necessary to trouble the house with some
ob-
serrations upon it. He could not but regret the great violence
of some of the observations which had been made use of. It

'was not his object .to do any thing to aggravate or exasperate
public feeling. (Hear, hear.) It was not his intention to do
any thing to obstruct the further progress of the bill as it should
proceed from their lordships, but, as far as he was concerned,
to receive it and give it all the calm, deliberate, and serious at-
tention which its importance required. (Cheers.) At the same
time, in justice to his noble and learned friend, he felt called
on to say he had not perceived in any of his observations any
thing that could justify such a strong feeling as had been ex-
pressed on the other side of the house. He certainly had not
heard him impute base and sordid motives to their lordships;
but, with respect to the appellation of "mob," he might have
felt that expression arise in his mind upon an occasion when he
certainly was somewhat irregularily interrupted. (Hear.)
He.could refer to the opinions of members of their lordships'
house, repeating what he had taken the liberty of stating on a
former occasion, that as to popular assemblies, whether com-
posed of peers or others, they were all, in fact, actuated by the
same feelings, and subject to the same tumultuous emotions, in
whatever way they might be composed. (Hear, hear.) Lord
Chesterfield, in one of his letters, the beauty
of the composition
which could not but be admired, said, "In fact, every popu-
lar assembly, however composed, is a mob ; as a mob it raffst
be treated, and like a mob it must be moved and actuated."
(Cheers.) Surely Lord Chesterfield did not mean by that any
insult to the House of Lords. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) He
would not pursue this subject further, trusting that all vehe-
mence of feeling would now have passed away, ( hear,) and that
their lordships would now approach the consideration of the
question with the coolness and deliberation it desired. He had
said that it was his intention to move the omission of the' d
clause of this bill, which preserved the existing rights of free-
men to property; but, as he should have an opportunity of
making his motion on the third reading of the bill, he wouldnot
now press it, but would litoceed at once to that part of the bill
which was its most objectionable feature, which was the great-
est innovation upon its principle, and which was the cause of
the greatest alarm to the country, tainting and infecting, as it
did, the whole of the new constitution which was infused by the
the bill into the corporate bodies of the country: he meant the
election of aldermen for life, and the retention of the present
members of corporations, as enacted by the 6th clause. He
begged to move in that clause the omission of the word " alder-
men." If his omission were agreed to, he should move also the
omission of the 25th, 26th, and 27th clauses, of which the last
enacted that the first body of aldermen under the bill should be
elected from the present body. On the omission, therefore, of
the word aldermen the whole of the question depended. The
question had already been sufficiently discussed; he could add
nothing to it, and he submitted it to their lordships' decision.
Theimuse then divided on the question that the word "alder-
men" be retained in the clause.
Content—Present
Proxies

103
57
-160
46
43
- 89

Not content—Prevent..
Proxies...

-Majority against minister• 7l
On our re-tOrnission we found Lord MELBOURNE moving the
rejection of the amendment to the 39th clause of the bill:
The motion was negatived without a division.
Lord Lr Nom tillST moved a clause to the effect that aldermen
and town councillors should every three years make a declare-
that they possessed, either in personal or real estate, or in both,
the same amount of qualification as when they first took office.
—Agreed to.
The Earl of FALMOUTH moved that certain words be left oat
in a particular clause, in order to add a new clause, which was
to the effect that no persons who were or had been bankrupt, or
had compounded with their creditors, should be eligible to the
qffices of mayor, alderman, or councillor till after the expiration
of five years after the payment of their debts in full.
Lord LvsmuurisT said the noble earl would propose this
amendment on his own responsibility. He wiped his hands
of it.

The Earl of FA LNI 0 UTI-1 remarked that it was the intention of
the commissioners themselves to shut out in permanency bank-
rupts from these offices. However, he did not wish to go so far.
The amendment was ultimately withdrawn.
The Earl of liossLyx proposed that nothing in the bill should
interfere with the existing management of a grammar-school in
Louth founded by letters patent issued in the fifth year of the
reign of Edward-VI.
The amendment was agreed to, as was also another proposed
by. Lord LYNDHURST, providing.that all jurisdictions at present
existing in the precincts of cathedrals should be continued.
One or two other amendments of minor importance were like-
wise adopted.
The bills on the table were then forwarded a stage, and the
house adjourned at two o'clock.
The division in the lords on the constabulary bill was, we
understand—

For the second reading
Against it........ 59

Majority 2B

HOUSE OF COMMONS, THURSDAY.

The Speaker took the chair at twelve o'clock.
Several bills having been forwarded a stage,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL gave notice, that he should to-
morrow move the appointment of a committee to search the
Lords' journals for the purpose of diseovering'what had become
of two bills on the subject of wills, executors, and administra-
tors which had been sent up to that house some months since.
("Hear," and a laugh.)
Mr. NirtLks, after expressing the strong vexation which the
dissenters felt at not having had their grievances attended to,
notwithstanding the disposition they had shown to give way to
other great reforms, particulary those in corporations and in
the Irish church, gave notice that he should early next session
bring the practical grievances of the dissenting body before the
house, in the hope that uo further delay would take place in
their full redress.

Sir E. CODRINGTON, in the absence of the Secretary to
the Admiralty, postponed his motion on the subject of naval
officers deprived of their half-pay until to-morrow.
Mr. BARING brought up a bill for the improvement of the
navigation of the river Shannon, which was read a first time.

• •
Mr. WitKs and Mr. \VAKLEY having intimated that they,
as well as several other hun. members had petitions to present
on the subject of municipal reform, an understanding was come
to that petitions on those subjects should all be presented on
Monday.
The house then adjourned at a quarter past one.

HOUSE OF LORDS, FRIDAY.
Lord, DENMAN moved that the prisoners" defence bill, and
the offences against the person bill, be read a second time this
day six months, promising to take the subject of each of these
,bills into his consideration during the recess. His lordship tha
proceeded to make some observations on the bill for taking
away capital punishment in cases of conviction for stealing let-
ters or committing sacrilege, and moved that the house be sum-
moned to attend the first leading of it on the following day.

GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY BILL..
Lord WHARNCLIFFE moved the third reading of the above
bill.

Lord BOSTON expressed his conviction, not only that the
railway never would answer, but that it would prove a curse to
a great[►art of the country through which it would run.
The Earl of CArtNARVON said he felt bound, by the decision
of the house last night, not to give any further opposition to
the bill.

Read a third time. and passed, and sent to the Commons.
The tonnage admeasurement bill was read a third time and
passed. _ _ _ _ _

The colonial passengers bill went though a committee.
The Marquis, of SALISBURY brought up the report from the
committee on the Islington market bill, which was received
and (as we understood) the bill ordered to be read a third time
to-morrow.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS RILL.

On the motion for the third reading of the above bill being
put from the woolsack by Lord Denman,
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said, he would not trouble their
lordships with any observations, but merely move the word
" now" be omitted for the purpose of introducing " this day six
months."

Ou this amendment their lordships. divided, when there ap
peared

For the original motion
Against it

Majority for the third reading
On our return to the gallery we found Lord WHARNCLIFFE
proposing a clause, by way of rider, to the effect that the town-
clerk should perform under thi 4 bill, the same duties as they ex-
ecuted under the reform act.—Agreed to.
Some verbal amendments were then proposed, but the noise
and confusion were so great, that it was impossible to catch
their purport.
The question was then carried—" That this bill do pass."
Lord DENMAN then put the last question—" That a message
be tent"to the House of Commons, informing them that your
lordships have passed this bill, with amendments to which your
lordships desire the consent of the Commons," which was
agreed to.