The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1850-10-01 00:00:00

Livayol,

Baltic. British America. Total.
Ships. Tons. Ships. Tons. Ships. Tons.
5 years ending 1334 1847.. 622379*
5 next years 361.. 107633.. 1665.. 772997.. 2026.. 880640 t
5 next years 233.. 68559.. 1393.. 743459.. 1626.. 81201E4
5 next years 472.. 134862.. 1939 . 1094049.. 2411.. 1208911§
* Average, 369 ships; 124,475 tons.

t 405 ~ 176,128 ~ increase, 41.49 per cent.
t ~ 325 „ 162,404 „ Decrease, 7.79 „
§ 482 „ 241,782 „ Increase, 48.88 „
The speaker proceeded to advocate the proposed site as
the best that could be selected for the purpose. There
was, however, to be expected a considerable increase of
trades, and particularly at the north end in the coal trade,
owing to the proposed improvement for the accommoda-
tion of the latter. With reference to the cotton trade it
was found that during the last fourteen years the cotton
crop had been increasing rapidly, as would appear by the
following table :

IMPORTS OF COTTON INTO GREAT BRITAIN.
Date. American. Total bales.
1836 764,636 .... 1,200,831
1837 844,068 ....1,174,114
1638 1,123,032
1839
1840 1,236,635 1,599,193
1841 890,368 1,328,679
1842 1,009,200 1,379,103
1843 1,395,120 1,743,109
1844.... ... .1,217,798 1,682,678
1845 1,500,273 1,856,765
1846 991,110 1,243,679
1847 873,336 1,233,994
1848 1,374,287 1,738,941
1849 1,477,688 1,905,426
The revenue of the dock estate, according to the accounts
published, exhibited a failing-off of £13,000, but they
would find a great increase of trade with almost every
part of the globe except with America, owing to the de-
crease of the cotton crop. Had that increased from 1849
to 1850 as in the previous year, there would have been an
increase in the u& ck revenue of £23,000, which would
have produced an increase of £lO,OOO instead of the
falling-off he had nary ed. The next advantage they had
was that they had a large steam dock already open, and
they would necessarily require graving docks for repairs.
There was no other port in the kingdom, with the ex-
ception, perhaps, of Plymouth, which could accommodate
such large steam vessels. From 1814 to 1849 there had been
a great increase in this respect. The speaker then read
a table giving the tonnage of steam-vessels belonging to
the United Kingdom, which had gone on increasing from
the year 1814, when there was only one vessel of 69 tons,
until in the last five years it was as follows ;

England. Scotland. Ireland,
Year. Vsls. Ton. Vsls. Ton. Vsls. Ton
1845.. 691 1 78,542 1
.. 139 21,529
5I 6421
1846.. 733 .87,649

Several metnber

was done.

and furnisi

79 18,069

133 21,225 .. 97 22,373

No, no

however, a more amicable arrangement could be
between them and their masters, he had no c
would do much to increase the ship-building trade

b. auvuu private araving noes
He (Mr. Parker) should like to know how many shi
builders had graving docks attached to their yar
prosperous days which had been alluded to
not want them now. What was wanted was
encouragement and a better understanding bg
ter and man. He would like to know whether the t
yards were fully occupied. He believed they wr—
if that enormous sum were laid rm.- -

port be not actor

Mr. FERNYHOUGH seconded the amendment,

Total. tained. He should therefore give his vote with tiihio7l
Vsls. Ton. fication, for he considered that the port 0' nob
should not be bounded by the parish of Li to
9G3 131,247 was_ immaterial to him whether he paid rates

917 118,792

alp- v . -
' theref"e' Po°
5 I 876 • some one over the water. He was, to the
.. 7841 93,693}
1848.. 850 97,205 .. 162 20,543 .. 106 24,681 .. 1118 151,429 Derby at the north, to Lord Sefton at the so ehil
willing that the matter should be referred ,to
_tit; stthe
.140 22,672 .. 104 23,767 .. 1633 140,408
1849.. 872 104,109 .. 166 29,206 .. 111 262369 .. 1149 159,684
Committee to consider how it should be carrieatl'opofjj
In noticing the objections to the proposed plan, the in conclusion, he expressed his warm apPr1,;00474
speaker said one might be that further dock accommoda- talent displayed by the chairman (Mr. Tobin "
mittee'
tion would be required. He hoped, however, that before investigation.
other docks were made they would give increased facilities Mr. THOMPSON thanked the Shipbuilding Ce:rePe.t:
for working those already in existence. He did not hesi- and especially the Chairman, for their yery au 0
theo a
tate to say that in a few months after the plan was adopted They had his own thanks, and he considered oalasii
there would be a very great increase in the shipbuilding titled to the thanks of the town at large. 11 drieg int,
trade. Already he had received several letters from Mr. Parker how it was that the various fenn„,,,,310.j,
parties anxious to take yards, and he trusted facilities town were now employing so few hands? luposcorii
would be afforded to enable them successfully to compete, Fawcett used to have 2,000 hands—they had sarae., 0
not only with the outports, but also with foreigners. 700—and all along Vauxhall-road was the ode I°o In conclusion, he moved that the report he approved. and was lately at Glasgow, and all along the deligN referred to the same committee to confer with the Dock Greenock to Glasgow he heard the most nortl,,,
Committee, and to make arrangements for the purchase music—that of the hammer of the artisan c° otes.`"'
of the land.
In the course of his Mr. Tobin read a carefully piron e vweistshe ls.
the
United
i tt
eodthsetaassertion
watsh aatfawiela CA! 'fed° litrisiost.l:lllo
compiled table, from which it appeared that, the average they had built could bear comparison Witnh fa. ea,"o, consumption of deck planks, deals, battens, wainscot logs, was the finest ship in the world. They had
C ded °elle
pine, Quebec oak, elm, ash, hardwood, pine planks, Que- could do the work if facilities were only aor could ;,,
bec deals, pitch pine, African deals, cedar pencil, in 1832, As to the money required—how was it that rneet.4ooo;l
1833, 1834, and 1835, was 160.923 loads of 50 cubic feet ; found to object to it when they could lose Nivel,
in the next four years it was 186,073 ; in the next four, working Birkenhead Ferry, and at the same tinl,he tool'.
179,801 ; in the next three years it was 259,742 ; in 1848 the boiler and machine makers away froel I side
~t 1 the consumption was 209,009 ; and in 1849 it. was 229,376. He considered that the rent of yards on thisibotP
The consumption of mahogany and cedar logs in 1839 was water oueht not to be one farthing more than "
oei
10,027 ; in 1845 it was 25,438 ; in 1847, 14,307 ;in 1848, by Mr. Wilson on the other side.
!. p 01°00
19,324, and in 1849, 24,391.
Mr. LITTLEDALE, as one of the commuLe-,id not I
hismore
o raeptphraOnb R5lO. 116
do.fptehresrcieupaorrety.
yard,
land would diffev!di
Mr. LANGSDALE seconded the motion.
Mr. PARKER said though he might take the unpopular
side of the question, still he could not refrain from in his mind was the length of leasebsuttotbhee ggrraernanteod:iltille; making a few remarks on the subject. They felt very would have to be considered by the Doek nhe rile, much indebted to the chairman of the committee for the The surveyor to that committee considered itck of
ability he had displayed, and the able statistical details valuable piece of land belonging to the d° !Ore;
with which he had favoured the Council, but there were Another consideration would be as to affording:fr- 6011
some rather startling statements put forth ; for instance, dation for steamers. He had a letter from 'bt bef!)ej
Mr. Tobin had gravely told them that if the United States tham, in which he stated that he had no rile clitflei,
had grown more cotton, the revenue of the dock estate long, a very great portion of our trade would of
would have been £lO,OOO more last year than it was. on by screw steamers, and these must be ec,erhilibel
oLßnietestilederedesawiaels)lt
et
washa
me reernswotaths
ea
aware
etuhreoarnf
insurance
fwo advantageares,oanried.7l3`..aett":o?
Again it was said that ship building had been going down
since 1820. What had the town been doing to allow this?
one-halt 1e5',60
He (Mr. Parker) recollected two or three years ago there
was a great cry about the wants of the timber trade, and „„ „44, T. I • • - --•••• "9

they were called upon to extend the docks further north-
ward, in order to accommodate it. Why, what were
the wants of the timber trade ? After all that had been
said on the subject, it was to remain where it was. Now

the wants of the ship-building trade came upon them
like another thunder-clap, and they were called upon to
advance £lO,OOO for its accommodation.

Mr. PARKER.-Gentlemen might cry no, no ; but the
plan was to give £45,000 for the land before anything else

Mr. ToBIN explained that the report of the committee
merely recommended that they should enter into nego-
ciations for the laud, but did not recommend the-expen-
diture of any money.

Mr. PARKER continued.—He had gone to look at the
plans at the office, and on inquiry found that the land
would cost what he stated, before it could be brought
into use for ship-building purposes. He contended that
the conduct of the Dock Committee had drivp. th.

ship-builders out of Liverpool. Mr. Wilson was we
known all over the world, and he had been driven out

trade, and not throw the burthen upon the burgesses
He recollected, before 1820, seeing a majestic vessel sai
down the estuary of the river, and on inquiry found i
was a Liverpool-built ship. There was then a pride in th(
shipbuilder and merchants of the town to have Liverpool.
built ships. Why were they not still so? Anothei
cause for the decline of the trade was owing to the corn.
bination of the ship-carpenters, as was stated ; but mud,
was to be said for the ship-carpenters, and it was to be
regretted that masters and men did not meet together and

umers. in conclusion he begged to correo,
into which Mr. Tobin had fallen, in stating that to
dock had been opened. It was merely the lOCk 89
the dock. He cordially approved of the repor„
Mr. FISHER said it had been asserted by 3-13,' elYed
that Mr. Wilson was driven from this side by Itid bs
Committee. if he had read his evidence he.,,tr",,k
found that it was something else besides the -1-';;I
of
mittee which drove him away. A careful Peru— ettbe
report would show that it was the Council andil
Dock Committee who had caused the falling sfrAf
trade. He contended that the site of the Tobeurdeew:
houses, and the Albert Dock, might more adveubh—e-C°°ol".
have been turned into shipbuilding yards ; but 00,
cil, as in the case of the post-office, had been tec'evijo4ll
to make a pound into a guinea. They had it A 0 or f
that a ship could be built in Liverpool for x'uhltl;
per ton, superior to any in the world ; but how co er at 4d.
compete with Quebec, where they could get tiny. oot in
per foot, which would not cost less than Is. PZiiidetld
Liverpool. Mr. Wilson was long the pet shirt he cowot
this town ; and he said, in his evidence, that old
have land here as cheap as in Birkenhead he et ship/
build here, because it is impossible to eenstiroucto e°,1110;
sere so long as there were public graving duchea
Mr. Fisher t
Ald be built indel beFt;
any accommodation eff°,r„,ght
a account of their cheapness, and "r",-, to OH
ri:.s country to be furnished. He was univillin, slteose
-1` to the report. Therel were Tijeot
started at the north end of the tono, gted,
icks would either be too great or too small, hefesfulti
the present finances of the dock estate, elt"', ns 0,4
DO small for tie wants of the port before the Pesci ovil
eeo
eucarried
under . o ult. tnh
eslufi
Sunderland,
sdpteleearrlciannsgd
carele
fiorr e s
instance,
o f !pl le Ili i t
stte eid
there teo 9Duct
n an average, a ship a day. They built there all "to
the same space as a Liverpool shipbuilder ;;Tuitt isfti
The ships now in Liverpool
were most nd it
s for the cotton o timber trade; B,,tlrelto
r n". .hew

amicably settle their differences. Therewas ath;e7iiovc
ever, when they were looked upon in a far different ligl
to what they were now. Then they were the pets of th
town, and could return two members to parliament; bu
now they were suffering much from the depression c
trade, even more than others, and were to be depised. Il

I'hey did

a little more

petition with private on
on to show that vessels woi
. _

to compete with them, He V"' An. -
ceive either the Council or the town by leau*,,i"gb
Ippose it possible to propose any scheme so to kit'
nswer the purpose intended, anxious as be, but(Wool
he trade of the port not merely in Liverpoea,.tive At)
ide the water; for until there was a represeTio do ',;(0
3irkenhead in that chamber, they had n in' tthere,i ea
he other side of the water. He contended sen-oth
loom enough on this side the water; but eltb
opinion that More room would be required a es CI be
end for the accommodation of the timber trade, vi oh
when Brunswick Dock was undergoing rePairs' first
understood would soon be required. tic" t
Vee Wee
Mr. MANN said six years ago when the st", to et
considered he took an interest in endeavoul,o 003,9
plan to enable Mr. Wilson and Mr. Humble 01Vhe-st
the north end, but was unable to accomplish the
"
ons -nce of the plans being so far arta" iv,,Tota;
vas ,possible there could be any alteration' 900 olf°'
(9c Lion he should not think that either the
00,
or the Council were to blame for the Is
building trade. He had ascertaineuoe -101,
me might be said of Obo
that repairing was so much more lucrative teog Fl`;Etfete,
that it was that alone which caused the fa"lo t"
was glad to find that there was no intentioo.4 03Y5ote,
with the public graving docks, for if they, (.11d5i ale'of the
them he considered it would be a most suci ctioe•jeril4
however, condemned the Pr a cos' conch
hants paying the wages of the wor.kmie,a4clo.ll! 01,

,etween mas

if there would be any increased demand for ship-building
yards. Then they were told of the enormous number of
vessels built in America. They all knew that cheap ships
were built in Canada, but they were such things that no
merchant here would use them. Did Mr. Tobin suppose
that by building this dock and corstructing the float they
would be able to compete with the United States ? If he
did he was mistaken. For these reasons he (Mr. Parker)
should vote against the scheme. He called upon the
Council not to be led away by the arguments adduced by
Mr. Tobin, and he felt assured that if gentlemen would
look at the facts contained in the report, they would not
'opt it. Mr. Parker concluded by moving that the re-

Mr. Alderman DOVER taunted Mr. Parker with voting
away £7OO of the money of the burgesses for the esta-
blishment of a museum, whilst he refused to support the
present motion which had for its object the extension of
the trade of the port. He would support a motion for the
purchase of the dried skin of the rattle snake and petri-
factions of lawyers' wigs out of the public money, but as
soon as he was asked to support a measure, having for its
object the support of a trade which had been persecuted
out of the town, he stood aghast (laughter). They asked

conseque

believed-the s.

The spe:

_ oil,'
the plan of doing by piece-work, as in -11-!th the
preerable and calculated to do away wi ss'
ber of foremen they now had. irePreto
, false !bt - .04
MY. LITTLEDALE wished to correct, . r iaig i, bel a
which an observation made by Mr. Fishf , Doe , ba
,Ivic,'• ,an" 0
He had heard tb^ -

them, merely as an experiment, to risk a few thousands,
not merely for the purpose of giving employment to some
1,500 carpenters, but to employ some thousands of
engineers, and other trades. It was a fact that the town
was losing the ship-building trade, for lost it was in com-
parison with other trades, which would be a loss of
£1,000,000 sterling. On the occasion when Mr. Parker
spoke about the grant for the Museum, he was pleased to
speak of the manner in which he (Mr. Dover) obtained a
seat in the Council. He left for once his hops and his
malt, and was pleased to say he was pitchforked into that
room. Whether Mr. Parker valued it or not, he (Mr.
Dover) considered it a high honour to be elected an
alderman of the borough, especially when selected as he
was in place of one whose position and abilities were
higher than his. How would Mr. Parker reconcile his
present conduct to his constituents ? Some time ago he
was the idol of the people—the pet of their fancies.
The DEPUTY-MAYOR called Mr. Dover to order. He
considered he was getting a little wide of the question.
Mr. DOVER would not pursue the subject further. He
was ready to admit that the decline of the ship-building
trade was in some degree owing to the combination which
existed among the workmen. The committee had, how-
ever. confined their attention to th 3 promotion of the ship-
building trade, and so far as he understood, they had left
the question as to where it should be accommodated an
open question. They went to the consideration of the
question not pledged to any site, and if a convenient place
was not to be found on this side the water, they were
willing to go to the opposite shore. It should be the
policy of the town as much as possible to encourage manu-
factures in the town, but ship-building must be confined
to the margin of the river. He was one of those who
would in a slight degree risk health for the promotion of
trade so as to enable parties to fill their bellies and
clothe their backs, and he thought the result would
fully justify any vote of money they might be called
upon for. They ought, as much as possible, to vary the
occupation of the labouring classes, for when the wind
prevailed from the east for a length of time, many
were thrown out of work, and obliged to apply to the
parish, whereas if they could turn to some other employ-
ment this would be avoided. He did not wish to throw
any especial blame upon the Dock Committee for not
providing proper accommodation for the ship-building
trade. That blame fairly came home, not only to the
Council, but also to all of them. They had not been
sufficiently alive to the subject. Besides all, before the
land came into the hands of the Dock Committee, it be-
longed to the Council. Why did not the Council tie
them down to use the land for ship-building purposes.
Again, a great portion of the Dock Committee was elect-
ed by the Council, and if they did not do their duty,
others should have been elected. He thought therefOre
the Council ought to bear a fair share of the blame as
well as the Dock Committee. They had, it was true, paid
too much attention to affording facilities for discharging
and loading ships, whereas both the Dock Committee
and the Council ought to have made it their first business
to promote the building of ships. He (Mr. Dover) was
one of those who opposed the granting of the lease to
Mr. Wilson for this reason. He did not object to letting
the land, but he considered it wrong that the Council
should lease land to him engaging at the same time
to construct a graving dock for him, when they
had hitherto refused to do so for any one on
this side the water, thus affording him an advantage not
possessed by Liverpool ship-builders. At the period when
shipbuilding was in its zenith we had no private graving
docks, but they lived in an age of improvement, and now,
when it was found they were of advantage, why should_r
they be denied to the shipbuilders of Liverpool ?
ground that something ought to be done for the imr
thepi in-
jury
Dover then argued in favour of the proposed site otlevt.
ment of the property there as a compensation
northftohe
proposed to
end, and then went on to observe that, it was.p
it sustained, owing to the present works at
lding yards,
make a large dock and surround it with shipbuilding
They
but not to attach graving docks to all of thef
yards.
The dock,
would not be constructed unless asked for.
t wholly used
however, would have to be made, and
be appropriated to
for shipbuilding purposes, it could
by
observing, that
other purposes. Mr. Dover concluded
which would be required, the
considering the small sum
and he was surprised
experiment was well worth trying.,
there should be any objection to it
frame the port anew they
Mr. HOLT said if they had to.
and cgarry the docks further
for shipbuilding purposes,
deal with the port as it was,
eastward ; but they had to
accommodate the shipbuilding trade either
and they must the other as was most advanta-
geous,on this side the river or the margin of the river
so far as space
might see the necessity owfakseecpo
Inncerned, for the purpose.
He should vote for referring the subject to the dock coin-
them to manage the details. He, how-
ever,
considering the question, did not wish to confine
his in
tention solely
to this side of the water. He did not
consider the committee
at all pledged to this side of the
he urged that both sides should be considered,
com-
mittee,
leaving
river. and
Tranmere Pools very eligible sites might have been ob-
and thought it very possible that either in Wallasey or

place
plaockeensotoontha: e.ftths,e,ureurevwt
ehrayeuiolmrdnooouecnxkr
ttoiwtifoeat hssiteiabbejuß.k
Jackson's
,1:::::::
than
,
sinubasidsatnactee--olikely to require repairs before wet tquell
eicltt: heli'le:s ion:lo.o.'-iltlteer:
worse for many years.
Mr. BRAULEY-MOORE said, as the Dee ase for pOt
were limited by their acts not to grant A ier, WeretertlP
would go to t
than twenty-one years, and as ship-badee 007 ;tie
likely to erect expensive buildings on such eoo,,ja
he wished to know from the chairman of thei. eegsti
if such an obstacle h c0a1....
the plan. e extent 0
t they t rbeY
Mr. Tomb/ said, the best arrangetnerl ied tia ,
effect would be made, but before it was etrareetion• oaf
would have to come to the Council for its ',l „appo b°
After some discussion respecting the weTbie, it, jeob:
in the resolution, Mr. Bramley-Mooit whisgr:lr,..o;iclio"
changed to the word " received," w."'e A to UP'
jected to do, on the ground that he wishe- ~. _.s:"
was the feeling of the Council on the subjeaa_ qlow
followinglr. or
" That the report be received," &c. berg were'-'1
A division took lace, when the nue' it, 34. 6, tv
Mr. Parker's amendment,. 10 ; against eiliers,.rior,
Horafall, J. C. Fernihough, B. Hall, J.. 13. Load, J•
‘"
J. Thomson, J. Bigham
W. P. Freme, W. Mann ; Aldermen i. -0' cillolloff,
J. H. Turner, T. Chilton. Against l. AireS,oll'
Walthew, E. Langsdale, .Calraer, illr,i;.' 14, 11.,;, O.
members
PARKER e
t ea
rl altered er
voted,
d his
Littlelobie'
J. Atkinson, J. Briscoe,' T. Godfrey, T. ~.ees,
H.
H. Hornb J Ferguson, T. Riairnet. F.
neeJuct,
y, .
A• Tobin, A,
son, T. Wagstaff, J. Rogers, J. A. Tian n, lv • f 11, T,
R. C. Gardner, J. Johnson, J. A....„: Rots ':A,
It. M. Beckwith, A. Henderson, vj,• B. gori'' 0
Fisher • Aldermen D. Hodgson, .•
a lii
e
rrl
Dover:J. Cooper, J. Bent. and
The original motion was then put,
show of hands. namely,
W.eFs°rr C:lunvd' j.1743°14.41

•
agaTilniestrTtlne OWN-mune:Mr:Jar
arfeAtTtelrONfrso
Treasury Postage' ' 01'0
, respecting the site of the new the faesi jo%
the
mortgagesame body
ofth withec
Corporate eofrearteen
letter f
the • -
opinion of the Council on the subject, be'
lordships for cli9cl
gave their decision.l'
s. It was agreed that the matters should be left bot hti
ton on Wednesday, and the Council broke up a
EeeStt:tetv° 1.50470e5t11eir
the Lorcl,..s escstol

loot
!ti1!..,1

POLYTECHNIC SOCIETT.—At the monthly ni-_,-,ettop-,he
night, Mr. Jordan read a paper on his no:ftrio in wor
wood and iron shipbuilding, which consists 5 fornilelf
substitution of angle iron for wood, in the too _r,
ribbing of ships or steamers. After exhibiting nooncof
be stated that the keel was laid in the ordinaq,noseilo
and upon this were placed the iron ribs, l.'"er rtoii,Licet
angle iron, of suitable dimensions. We have ay. sirlo,o
described this important invention. Mr.;_ hos b'fi,
exhibited a beautiful model of caboose, wh,ical gO
favourably noticed by many experienced 110'