The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-05-03 00:00:00

THE', L I%rF R POOL STANDARD. S7l
s that the machinery of their the reformed house—ay, the reformed house!—on Friday night thought himself called upon, out of due regard to his own cha-:
d on upon the same scale as taking a bold step, and the first step to relieve the peoples and ratter, to resign the situation Ite held under government, io
off five millions—that was the on Tuesday night they were whipped like spaniels into their whom he was strongly attached, because he felt that he could
uld be done without either in- kennels again—(cheers mixed with eeroans). Ile was now not, upon this trying occasion, give them that support whichhisrely adopting a system of eco- breathing an element where men had long been accustomed to situation called upon him to give, without the sacrifice of Ls
lie should support the original eat their words, and now he feared that they were disposed to character as a public man. He had therefore felt it his duty to
could be lost, it would be his swallow their resolutions, digest them as they might. What resign his situation under government, and also his seat in the
lion was put, to move as an would be the result? Why, the result would be, that if the house. He (Sir Francis) felt himself placed in a situation not
in the revenue, which would house had not the confidence of the people their vote might be quite so difficult, however unpleasant, because he held no public
the duty on malt and the re- a fatal one. The house had heard the noble lord's (the Chan- situation, and he should, fearless of all consequences, do that
s, ought to be provided for by cellor of the Exchequer) speech. They had heard him declare which at this trying moment he felt his duty to his country ire-
he country; and if that be in- his determination to resign if they did not rescind their resolu- periously called upon him to do. He did not intend, sehen this
uld bear more equally upon tion of Friday. Why the noble lord treated them as a mother subject was first brought under •the consideration of the house,
entry," did her untowaid children—he threatened, as did the mother,
to vote for the hon. alderman. Had it come under the considt-
d that, on a question of such to deprive them of the light. He woad withdraw the light of ration of the house unencumbered with other circumstances, he
wereshouldy
ahrat
ivceufl ealrtl
yi t
ihnitsedrieist
tyetdo
isnu
tier),
and
di et
ilireeicraitillstee
rlerisst
se own:,tt tmi e
oertes
hon. friend (the member for his countenance from the councils of his Majesty, and he ex-
e given to the members of the • petted the house to cry, like a child shut in a dark room, "Oh,
r constituents. The question mammy, do net leave me "—(loud laughter, which 'was ma-
materially concerned than those of any other part of the public.
only by a choice of' two evils, terially increased by the dramatic gesture of the hon. member.) Now the question assumed a complicated shape. There were
losing a tax on income and do not leave us." But to take a higher ground of comparison. three questions under the consideration of the house. One,
he malt tax, and would, under Let him recall to the house the threat of Catiline when expelled whether the vote as to the repeal of the malt tax was to be re-
nit to that evil than the other. the Roman senate. " You may drive me out from among you, scinded ? That it ought to be rescinded—that it ought never to
had listened with great atten- said that noble incendiary ; "but I call upon you to reflect have passed under the circumstances under- which it did pass,
ember for Middlesex, and he that; if you do, the same fire which shall devour me shall con- no gentleman could for a moment entertain the slightest doubt.
arguments how the deficiency some you." (Loud igroans, and expressions of dissent.) Well, It having passed, the house was called upon to agree in the pro-
r way than by a property tax. well, to leave all such matters at rest, let the house rescind its position that it would be inexpedient to adopt a property tax.—
y
rould lead to great discontent, resolution of Friday, and how would they look the people in the Ile thought it impossible to attempt an fedi change with due
to malt tax were greatly nate- face after they had regard to the service of the country. He was, however, bound
done so ? Their own character, as a legisla-
tion of' the noble lord. He tive body, was implicated in the decision, and to that they must to say that no tax could be laid upon the country so equal and
roperty tax was first raised, it look. That 'night it must be decided whether they would be- fair as a tax on property. The plain question before the house
!nee (the term used when vo- come the objects of contempt or of respect; and he would yen- was one of great embarrassment to ministers, but then it was
:hags) than a tax. The army tare to prophecy- that, if they decided upon revoking their own impossible, in this state of the session, to accede to the pro-
pposite coast, threatening an act of 1 riday, they would take an immense stride towards the position of the repeal of the house and window tax. The vote
singly for the defence of the annihilation of the constitution of Great Britain. (Cheers and the house was called upon to give was, whether or no the go-
eesings of the people in peace. groans, in equal proportions, followed this speech.) vernment or the country' should he supported ? This was u
t, that the country, under all Mr. SPRINo Rims contended, that the resolution of Friday ministry to which every honest man ought to give his support.
e
roperty tax, but that its adop- was not to be looked upon as a solemn and recorded vote, or"in Could
the same light as if a bill were passed carrying its object into tion they give the financial state of the country that consicierc
which was given to it by the Chancellor of the Exchequer
gard to the amendment of the effect. He thought the explanation of the noble lord (the Notwithstanding thirty-four millions had been taken off since.
1 put it on a fair footing, and Chancellor of the Exchequer) had sufficiently informed the the peace, still there was something in the state of the country
four propositions. The first house of the circumstances under which the resoletien was car- which made the pressure less tolerable than it was during the
o rescind the vote of a full ried; and that, consequently, some consideration would be had unexampled expenditure of the last war. It appeared to him,
ring 311 members. The se- for' these extraordinary circumstances. How stood the ques-
that any contraction of the income of the country would render
with the house and window tion as regarded the dignity of that house in the present in- it impossible to meet all demands. The state of the country
n prospect; and the fourth, stance? He thought they were called on for consistency's reminded him of the blanket which could riot be made to cover
en in case he was not sup- sake—for their own honour, to vote with his noble friends. five or six persons. It seemed to him unreasonable to demand
it; such an appeal, knew well He would appeal to the house from the majority of 10 on from the Chancellor of the Exchequer such aelefalcation with-
tof many, and he was not to Friday night in favour of the reduction of the malt duty one- out pointing out how it might be remedied. He hoped that the
on, the time had arrived when half, when the house was taken suddenly, to the deliberate house' either by an income or some other tax, would get rid of
ntry from the present burden vote given by the same house, in a crowded house, on the those taxes which there was any chance of repealing.
sisters had done as much as, 26th of March last, against the proposition of an honorable Lord SANDON said, that a numerous body of his constituents
rdo that which would really member, that certain taxes should be repealed, and that a had presented petitions upon this subject, lint he owed his con-
ed for the repeal of the malt graduated property tax should be instituted instead. \V hen stituents a greater duty than to obey their wishes. He should
see how it was possible for he or others solicited them to contrast and weigh the ar- be unworthy of the confidence reposed in him if he were to seek
ition of the noble lord, the guments and opinions entertained on either side of the house, relief from burdens by putting in jeopardy the public crede,
!an hear.) That considera- and select that proposition which they felt would he thebest, not upon which the whole prosperity of the state rested. 'He felt
he hon. members themselves. for their Own popularity's sake, but valet stood on solid grounds that it was not taxation, but want of confidence, which produced
emen would discharge from and on general principles, he was induced to hope he should not a stagnation in industry, partly arising from political rind partly
d somewhat too prevalent— be charged with either attempting unjustly to sway or delude the from commercial causes. To repeat seven or eight millions of
ient particular classes. Let calm and deliberate judgment they ought, and no doubt would, taxation, without a substitute, would, indeed, paralyze every
Let them consider in what pronounce on the question before them. industry of the country. Without public credit enterprise
he motion of the noble lord Mr. Sergeant SPANKIE said he was one of those who voted flagged, and the spirit of commerce was at an end. With these
mrab.e member for the City against rescinding the duty on malt, and he wished that on that feelings. ha should betray teeeeenfidence reposed in him by his
3 contended, would be placed occasion the house had had the good fortune to have heard some constituents, if he were rather to listen to their petitions than
that in which it stood before of the eloquence which had that night greeted them. He saw consult their interests.
1 not think the noble lord's no necessity for adopting an income tax as the only alterna- Lord dciner RUSSELL concurred with the hon. member for
efore the house, and in his rive, if these taxes should be reduced; for the hon. member for Liverpool that it was most essential to establish a spirit of con-
ve acted more wisely if they Middlesex had shown that reductions might be made in the ex- fidence. He had never doubted that the prosperity of the
lay night, rather than endea- penditure nearly equivalent to the taxes proposed to be repeal- country might be easily blown up for a time by every kind of
terfuge. In conclusiou, the ed.—(Hear, hear.) schemes, but it was the duty of parliament to provine for the
uld give his cordial support Sir H. PEEL said he felt it necessary to state the grounds stability of the system. The country looked with anxiety to
(Sir John Key), and oppose upon which his vote on this occasion should be given. Although this question. The questions of the Bank Charter, the East
of the Exchequer. this question opened up the discussion upon every measure of India Company, and the state of our subjects in the West Ire-
sad the country owed a great finance and of economy, yet the considerations by which he dies were still unsettled. The opinion of his, noble friend, and
'ministration, which had done should be guided were main and prominent. He looked to the many of those who supported him, was that the imposition of a
ion to raise the character of financial circumstances of the country, and to the importance property tax would be inexpedient at present. He thought the
k 3 country ; and he, therefore, of maintaining faith with the public creditor. (Hear, hear.) introduction would be productive of a panic,
adopting any line of- conduct Ile found that after the reductions which had been made in the the finances of the country, without any substitution as it would loosen
in its Ow,
ivernment. N's hatever might course of last year, and the concurrent repeal of taxes, that which might not end in general disappointment. He trustee
rowever, he had a higher duty we had now an available surplus of little more than half a the decision to which the house would come that night would
a all things, to take care that million. That surplus arose, partly from a small increase in be of a nature to confirm public credit. (The noble lord's
uents, or Iris own conscience, the revenue, and partly from a reduction of the estimates for speech was followed by loud cries of "Question, question ;''
r, hear !) He considered the the year. The question he had to consider, therefore, was, and " Divide, divide.")
it of ministers, but as a great whether under such circumstances he could hope for an addi- Dr. LUSHINGTON had one motive—he limit honestly confess,
y
Commons and to the Govern- tional repeal of taxes to the extent of five millions. (Hear, that in expressing his feelings that he was actuated b one aro-
tended that, when the mem- hear.) It was quite true, that the repeal of the house and win• tive, and it was this—he had been for '27 years attached to
lon such a question against dow duty was not necessarily connected with the repeal of the the principles and politics of those who now held the reins of
dly popular, it was an honour duty on malt, but though not necessarily, yet, under the peen- Government, and he sincerely thought it would be one of the
ill a greater honour to that liar circumstances of the case, they were practically connected. greatest misfortunes that could beau the county if the present
ouse was constituted. Feel- If Government were to repeal half the malt tax they ought to ministry, and particularly if his noble friend (the Chancellor
tment, he was very sorry that repeal the house and window taxes. Indeed, many persons of the Exchequer), were to retire from the service of the coup-
on Friday night, and equally argued, that if they repealed half the duty on malt they ought try. (Loud cheers.) He said this unaflectedly, because he
rt the proposition of the noble to repeal the whole, for reducing it one half would give but a felt, without disparaging the talents or character of others, that
ough the house should adhere partial relief, for an expensive establishment must still be it would be difficult to find a substitute for that honour and in-
not see that such adherence maintained, and the same vexatious inquisitorial interference, tegrity on the part of his noble friend, in which the country so
erty tax. He thought that as if the whole duty were to be continued. The hon. member strongly confided. (Ilear,) ice thanked the house for the•
rof the country without any for Middlesex wanted the house to trust to reductions hereafter attention with which they had heard him; but he felt that under
✓he admitted that considera- to be made to supply this deficiency. He (Sir R. Peel) had the peculiar circumstances in which he stood lie could not
leregretted the result of the voted for the army estimates for the year. He had also voted have said less. (Loud cries of " Question, question," and "'Di-
try, as he thought that some for the navy estimates, and for the ordnance estimates, and he vide.")
t forwaad in reference to that conceived it to be impossible, after giving these votes, that he Mr.-W. BROUGHAM felt himself in a situation of painful em-
country without affecting the should expect a reduction to the extent contemplated. (Hear, barrassment. (Loud laughter.). Hon. members might keg!,
a property tax, such as had hear.) It had also been said that a reduction could be made in or sneer, but they knew little what must be his feelings for the
who was a high authority on the collection of the revenue; in reply to which he would say, 300,000 constituents whom he represented, after having wit-
re house should be of opiniou reduce the expenses of collection, and then reduce taxation in nessed the extent and variety of the sufferings to which they
irable, he denied that it was, a corresponding ratio. But could they satisfy the public cre- were exposed. (Hear.) His constituents believed that there
vote of Friday night. ditor by making, in the first instance, a deficit of five millions? sufferings would be alleviated by the removal of the taxes in
to remark at the outset that (Hear, hear). They would by such a step inflict an inepara- quesion. Gentlemen, he repeated, might well sneer, haying
erto addressed the house, ap- ble injury upon public credit. (Hear, hear). With respect never witnessed distresses such as those to which he alluded.
that which, in his view, ap- to rescinding the vote of'a former evening, he felt very little at (cries of Question.) He would have most cordially supported
consideration—namely, the rescinding a previous vote of the house, if the vote were an the motion of the hon. baronet relative to the house and win-
inion was, that, if the 'house unwise one. The only question therefore was, whether that dow tax, if he had not found that as an honest man he ought
light, the consequences would vote was consistent with the interests of the country. How not to do it. He would vote with the Chancellor of the Exclae-
that house. The noble lord many times had bills been rejected on a third reading which quer, that, at present, a property tax was inexpedient; but, at,
called upon the house to adopt had passed the former stages? Hon. members had said that the same time, he was ready to go into an inquiry as to how far
disgrace it in the eyes of the they would agitate other questions which had already been it would be advisable to substitute a property tax for those
f the speech of the noble lord, disposed of if this vote was rescinded—such a step being in- other taxes. He was of opinion that such a course would be
, which had given him consi- consistent with the dignity of the house. He suspected, how- advisable.
•
noble lord had declared that ever, that. hon. members were- not deterred from re-agitating Mr. TENNYSON made some observations, amidst cries of
r' the vote of Friday, and that questions by a consideration' of the dignity of the house, but "Question." If they thought to put him down, they were-mis
unexpectedly brought on.— rather by the fear of not succeeding. The hon. member for taken—(Oh, oh.) He would await a hearing, and if refused, he
adjournment—(l}h,
when there had been Worcester had declared that unless -the repeal of the whole if would divide the house on the question of a
'ember for Surrey, to take off the malt duty should be carried, he would vote against rescind- oh ! hear, hear.) The bon. member, after a few observations
rst day of the session, and the beg the vote of Friday last. If the whole duty. were to be and interruptions said he would support the motion of Sir John
colnshire, to reduce the duty repealed, the public creditor would not be satisfied, for it Key, as a property tax might be substituted for any deficiency
lth of May, notwithstanding it would be a mere delusion to hold out the hope of increasing.the which arose, and which might be required for other taxes, to
•ntly well known to be coming revenue. There was but one alternative, and that was an in- such an amount as would give a spring to the industry of the
e said to take any one by sur- come tax, and to that he was decidedly opposed. He did not country.
nore deliberate 'than the dis- mean to pledge himself beyond the present time, but at the After a few words from an Hon. MEMBER under the gallery,.
[alien ? The noble lord de- present period of the Session, and under existing circumstances the house divided—
.dvocated the question on dit. he thought a property and income tax would be a great public For the original motion 157 •
ace he "was aware of, was that calamity. Ile used the terms property and income tax, for he Against it
only one half, others said to felt that they were inseparable—(hear, hear) ; for to adopt a I\lajority against reducing the
if was of the latter class, and property tax alone, would be pregnant with danger and injus- house and window tax .
.n the votes of Friday. • The face. He would put a case by way of illustration. He would [There were 512 members in the house.]
speech, that the income tax, suppose a man retired from business, and having money in the On re-entering the gallery the house was in much confusion,
npopular. The lion alderman, funds, say £lO,OOO. He has two children—one a son in a which was heightened by the rush of strangers into the gallery.
n, said that so long as there profession, and the other in trade. Each of these children are A conversation took place in which Sir R. Peel, the Char e
erty, he did not care which it making large fortunes, and have to pay nothing, while the cellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Baring, and Mr. Hume, took a
a would tell him that if there father is to pay largely out of what he may have got invested in part. (We believe Mr. Hume moved some amendment during
el as the former income tax the public funds. He could see no justice in that. If either a our absence from the gallery.)
not last half a year. But a property aor an income tax were to be adopted, there must be The CHANCELLOR of the 14:xcliEQuE2 pressed upon the house
a—not that he thought even most rigorous inquisition in order to render it effective. A war the necessity of coming to some specific resolution with respect
even would lie ever dive his Might justify resorting to such a tax, but even then there would to the malt dury.
was formerly levied; for he be neither justice nor equality without a most rigorous inquisi- Sir W. Belem, said he should divide the house upon an
ixes the most unpopular, ex- lion, for otherwise the man of integrity would pay, while the amendment of his, that the words of the Chancellor of the E'x-
t shortly. By the former iu- dishonest man would escape with impunity—(hear) ;if he cons- chequer's motion, which had reference to the malt duty, or, its
is a sample of its operation— pared the evils arising _from the house and window tax, and other words, that that duty should stand as it did after the Note
nee his own life, and moreover from the malt tax, with those which must necessarily result of Friday night. If he -tailed in this, he should consider he
his skill in bone-setting, and from a property tax, lie could not hesitate to say that it would had done his best, and would go no fartherl at present.
of render it worth more than be much better for the country to bear with the existing bur-
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the gallery was
tile age it might be of 50 or thens than adopt a measure so vexatiously inquisitorial -as an cleared.
ayment as a man with a per- impost upon property. For his own part he could not look The house divided on the Chancellor of the Exchequer's se-
e, thanks to the efforts of the upon the house and window tax as a bad one, all things con- solution against the property tax—
office, called the income tax a sidered. If it bore hardly upon individuals, then let the fine- For ministers
got into office, raised it from quality be redressed, but let not the tax be done away alto • Against them l3l
e, then it was no longer a gether. It was a tax, the amount of which could easily be Majority —ls4
a," said the noble lord,• and ascertained, for au account might readily be taken of the num- The house divided on the' repeal of the malt duty by Sir
union, "ought to pay taxes in ber of windows of each house. It was, in fact, a species of~~rrn.lngilby—
iroperty for which he requires property tax. Indirect taxation, however, ought to have its
For ministers 238
noble lord's sentiments were limits. It might be raised to such an amount as to give encou- Against them 76
say— ragement to an extent of smuggling which would defeat its
Majority
er where he stole them." object, by defrauding the revenue. If he found that, as a The motion of the noble lord
,(the Chancellor of the EXche-
re bells were ringing in Berk- minister of the Crown, he had to raise £7,500,000, and reduce quer) was then put and agreed to.
e repeal of the malatax. Let taxes to that amount, he should not be prepared to say whether Adjourned at four o'clock.
hey were not seen. Let them he might not confer more benefit on the country by the reduc-
haadcitrachuemnsptalanccee.
ry tion of other imposts than the malt-tax. However popular a
property tax 'night be out of doors, he must enter his decided At the Earl of Eldon's rent-day,
.held on Wednesday last, at
p ro.cheeend
isnugcsh
nmons had sat chginqs, three protest against it on the ground of policy and justice. If a tax Rushylord, an unasked and .unexpected return, amounting to
The • of relief. "e nudgset upon property were laid ou to the necessary amount, it would 10 per cent. on their respective- rentals, was made to his lord
contained no relief, and the visit with discouragement every industrious man in the empire, ship's.nunierous tenantry. •
less, came to a resolution to and the consequence would be, that capital would be transferred AwrLL CATAsTitopilE.—The. Redactor of Saturday eoptaine
people are filled with joy, the to other countries. He contended that either a gradual or fixed' an article from the Constitutional del. Cauca, stating that hi the
-row—what comes to-morrow ? tax Olson property would exclude capital from the money month of July last, while mass was. being celebrated in the
the reformed House of Corn- market, and destroy all stimulus to industry. For these rea- church of Sigchos, near Tacunga, in the repterlie of Equador,
aided to repeal the malt duty, sons, and on account of the period of the Session in which the South America, on the day of the solemn featival del Corpvs, fire
Ind of the minister—aye, the question was brought forward, as well as on account of the was communicated to the building by weans elf a wicket,- and
heir resolution What, there- opinion expressed by the noble lord, that he thought a property that in the rush of the audience to the dope it became shut, and
arliament ? 'Why, the nomi- tax inexpedient, ha "(Sir R. Peel) would oppose the motion of i/u whole congregation perished in the flames, except the ciliate,
a subservient than the present, the hon. baronet. vh i escaped through a window I - in The nuher eiliyes lost was
ve the people; and here was Sir FRANCIS BURDETT observed that his hon. colleague had e.tanated at more than firer Ctcrtrfred,besides children.