The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-07-04 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.-FRIDAY

Messengers from the House of Commons brought up a
request that their lordships would permit the attendance
of the Duke of Wellington to give evidence before the
shipwreck committee.--Leave was given for the attend-
ance of the Duke.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE laid upon the table of the house
copies of the correspondence with the Lord Chancellor of
Ireland respecting the dismissal of Irish magistrates.
The Earl of ABERDEEN then moved the second reading
of the Apprehension of Offenders Bill, by which an inter-
national system of giving up offenders was to be esta-
blished with France and America.

The bill, after some observations from Lords CAMP-
BELL and BROUGHAM, was read a second time, and their
lordships soo❑ after adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-FRIDAY

In reply to a question from Mr. H. HINDE, respecting
the materials collected by the late Mr. Petre towards
editing the collection of British Historians,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that, in consequence of the delay
in the labours of Mr. Petre, and without any disrespect
to his memory, the Treasury, in 1836, had given him no-
tice that he need not persevere in his labours. It was,
however, now proposed, with the sanction of the Master
of the Rolls, to hand over to the Historical Society the
materials he had left behind him ; and that society was
about to publish a work in accordance with the design of
Mr. Petre.
In reply to a question from Mr. HAWES,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that all the regulations respecting
education in the Factories Bill, as it now stood, were com-
prised in four clauses. Those clauses altered the ages of
the children employed from 9 to 13, as it is under the ex-
isting law to 8 and 13; they altered the number:of hours
from eight to six and a half per diem, and gave a power
to the committee of privy council on education to appoint
inspectors of schools, and to withhold grants of money
when they saw cause for so doing.
Mr. GISBORNE then moved for a committee to inquire
into the allegations of the petitions which had been pre-
sented to the house respecting Nottingham electioneering.
The hon. member entered into a lengthened statement of
the proceedings at the two or three last Nottingham
elections, many of his inferences implicating to a con-
siderable extent the Earl of Lincoln, whose conduct, he
said, could not be considered quite consistent with that of
a high-minded man. Although the details of the bribery
and corruption practised at those elections were by too
means new, yet they were sufficiently deplorable and dis-
gusting, and presented a strong prima facie case for the
necessity of granting a committee of inquiry.
Lord LINCOLN entered upon a defence of his con-
duct, and said that corruption had taken such a firm
bold of Nottingham that it could be only cured by
disfranchisement, or by some arrangement by which
the representation of that borough could be divided
quietly between the contending parties. For his own
- HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUESDAY. part he had never done anything either to corrupt
or enslave, and he could safely assert that his father,
Sir T. WILDE moved for a select committee to inquire even in the days when boroughmongering was general,
into the progress made in carrying into effect the recom- had never sold a seat in his life. On the contrary, he had
mendations of Mr. Rowland Hill for Post-office improve- invariably expended considerable sums in the legal ex-
xnents, and whether the further carrying into effect of penses attending the return of the four members he was
such recommendations or any of them will be likely to enabled in those times to return. The noble lord condo.
prove beneficial to the country. His motion was the re- ded by moving an amendment which he said would ren-
sult of the dismissal or retirement, not certainly volun- der the inquiry more extensive, by investigating the cir-
tary, of Mr. Rowland Hill. The hon. and learned cumstances connected with the last election for the
gentleman proceeded to give an account of Mr. Hill's borough, and the proceedings consequent on the petition
connection with the Post-office, stating that he was ap_ against the return.
plied to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to superintend Sir R. PEEL said he would not oppose the motion, as
the working of his plan. Mr. Hill declined to enter into the interested parties had acquiesced in it; but he could
the service of the Government, but offered his gratuitous not help saying that the precedent was in his opinion a
services, which were declined. After further negociation dangerous one. It appeared to him to be very hard that
he entered into an agreement by which his services were after the return of a member had been declared valid, he
secured for two years certain, with a distinct understand- should still be exposed to such an indefinite inquiry as the
ing that if then terminated he should have no other one proposed. He would strongly recommend Mr. Gis-
pecuniary claim upon the Treasury. He then entered borne to consider the matter well before he committed the
upon his duties; but it was only by degrees that the oh- house to a proceeding which might have the effect of sub-
struction of the Post-office authorities could be overcome, jecting any member to a second ordeal after he had estab-
and it was only by the resolute determination of the late lished the validity of his return.
Government that the public obtained the advantage of the Mr. T. DUNCOMDE said he had never seen less bribery
uniform penny-postage. A change in the Government than at the last election for Nottingham, from which
was subsequently foreseen, and it was not thought delicate charge he exonerated both parties.
to do anything which could bind the present Cabinet, and Ultimately the original motion and amendments were
the result was that at the termination of Mr. Hill's en- all withdrawn and the matter dropped.
gagement he was re-engaged for one year only, and at the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the order
termination of the third year his services was altogether of the day for the house resolving itself into a committee
dispensed with. Mr. Hill, in a letter to Sir R. Peel, of.. of supply.
fered to continue his services gratuitously, his anxious de- Mr. HUME moved the following resolution :—" That it
sire being to see his plan carried into full operation. In appears that Ernest. Augustus Duke of Cumberland re-
reply Sir R. Peel politely stated that the plan had been in ceived for many years, under the sanction of acts of the
operation for two years, and that its principle was well British Parliament, a pension of £21,000 sterling from the
understood. It certainly was true that the uniform penny British Exchequer for his maintenance and support as a
rate was in operation for that time, but not so the other prince of the royal family of England ; that in the year
portions, upon which depended whether the public were 1837, on the death of William the Fourth, Ernest Augus-
to have increased facilities of economic communication. tus succeeded to the throne of Hanover, and became an
Mr. Hill had endeavoured to get various improvements independent Sovereign and a member of the German Con-
effected without success, though he would have succeeded federation ; that he has been King of Hanover since 1837.
had he remained in the office assigned him ; but the Post- and has received annually during that period £21,000 from
office was impatient of the active superintendence of a the taxes of the United Kingdom ; that the payment of a
man who sharply investigated all mal-practices, and had Pension to an independent foreign sovereign from the
crushed small jobs attempted to be perpetrated. He had taxes of the United Kingdom is a waste of public money
in fact, effected savings greater than the amount of his and therefore, in the opinion of this house, the pension of
three years' salary. Mr. Hill asserted that there was an £21,000 having been granted by parliament to Ernest
erroneous statement in the Post-office accounts to the ex- Augustus for his maintenance whilst Duke of Cumberland,
tent of £lOO,OOO, and in the face of such an assertion be ought to be discontinued whilst he continues King of
thought the house should grant the committee, and the Hanover." The hon. gentleman enlarged upon the hard-
Government ought to be anxious to bring the matter to ship of the people in their present depressed condition
issue. Mr. H ill proposed the registration of letters to being called upon to pay a sum of money sufficient to
insure their safety, and though that threepence would be maintain 1,000 families to a prince who was never a fa-
a sufficient remuneration, but it was contended that it vorite while he resided amongst them.
would not be too much to allow sixpence in considers- Mr. WILLIAMS seconded the motion.
tion; and forthwith the Post-office, in order to save itself Sir R. PEEL said that the faith of Parliament was
trouble, charged one shilling. Under these circumstances, pledged to this provision for his royal highness, and de-
he hoped the inquiry would be granted, in order to ascer- fended the conduct pursued by him when he found that
tain by whom the plan had been obstructed, and in what the House of Commons disapproved of the establishment
way the country could realise most readily the great ad- of orange lodges. He opposed the motion, also, on the
vantages likely to result from its full adoption. ground that it would be unjust for the pension was by act
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended that of Parliament granted to him for life. To attempt to say
the Treasury minute under which Mr. Hill had been first that because his royal highness became, subsequently,
engaged clearly proved that that engagement was tempo- King of Hanover, and was no longer Duke of Cumber-
rary, with a view to carry out the penny-postage system, land, he could view it in no other light than as an unwor-
and not with the intention of carrying out any further thy quibble. Parliament must have foreseen the possi-
plan which might be in the contemplation of that gentle- billity of his becoming King of Hanover, and would no
man. W hen he took office he found that Mr. Hill had doubt have made provision for stopping the pension, in
been only engaged for another year, which was the result such a contingency, had they thought it right to do so.
of the care taken by his predecessor, Mr. F. Baring, not He hoped the house would not concur in a motion which
to fetter his successor, for which, and for many similar was alike inconsistent with good faith, and derogatory to
instances of consideration, he took that opportunity of the honour of the country.
publickly returning him his thanks, and begged to assure Lord WORSLEY said that as the pension was given un-
him that he had, as far as possible, endeavoured to carry ! conditionally by Parliament, it ought not to be withdrawn;
out his intention ; and if, in the dismissal of Mr. Hill, he but he thought it right that it should be known that the
had mistaken the right hon. gentleman's views, the error feeling of the country was in favour of his following the
was unintentional. The fact was, that it was found to be example of the King of Belgium and of the late Earl
very inconvenient to have Mr. Hill superintending such Camden.
a department as the Post•office, for he virtually super- After some observations from Colonel VERNER, in ex-
seded the authority of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. planation of the connection of his royal highness with the
If a similar course were adopted with all the other depart- orange lodges,
ments, the result would be great expense to the country, Mr. WALLACE said the Duke of Cumberland refused
and an unwise interference with the duties of the respon-
to give evidence before the committee on orange lodges,
Bible officers of those departments. It was in contempla-
although he knew the object was to examine him as to
tion to give additional facilities for communication by the whether the blank warrants he had issued to the different
r
establishment of rural posts wherever they were justified regiments were not so issued with intentions inimical to
by the number of letters. Mr. Hill's plan for additional the interests of the present Queen—cries of "no, no,-
"
facilities of delivery was not always applicable, for, in Lon-
and " hear.") He believed the name of his royal high
don, it would involve the employment of an additional ness was hateful to the whole people of the United King-
number of postmen, at an expense not to be justified by dom. (Cries of " no, no.") That was his opinion.
any equivalent advantage. The money-order system was,
be contended, superior to the system of registration, and Mr. FERRAND said he should not be ashamed to say
anywhere that he honoured and respected the King of
the public were availing themselves of it to an enormous Hanover. (Hear, hear.) He challenged Mr. Hume
extent. If any other proof were required that Govern-
with libelling the Duke of Cumberland, who was the first
ment was alive to improvements in the Post-office, it might person who had aided him to a seat in the House of Com-
be found in the appointment of Lord Lowther as post- mons. Though he now attacked his royal highness, he
master-general, a nobleman whom Mr. Hill had eulo-
was not ashamed to ask his assistance to obtain a seat for
gised as one of those enlightened individuals who were the borough of Weymouth. The honourable member
defended the orangemen, who would be found standing
zealous for Post-office reform. In fact they were gradu-
b
ally introducing every advisable improvement, without by her Majesty should the people of Ireland be driven
rushing into multifarious plans, for the purpose of giving into insurrection by those who would never venture to
a boon to the letter-writing portion of the community, at stand by them in the straggle.
the expense of those who were not so deeply interested in Mr. C. BULLER said he should vote for the motion of
epistolary correspondence. By the treaty respecting the Mr. Hume, but in so doing was not actuated by any per-
Post-office recently entered into with France, a great re-
sof Hanover. He contended that the pension was
vantages to the commerce of Great Britain. Government sonal feeling against either the person or conduct of the
duction of rates had been obtained, as well as other ad-
Kingnot unconditional, for the act stated that the object was
had nothing to fear, therefore, from such an investigation to make competent provision for the younger branches of
as that proposed; and he should, therefore, agree to the ! the royal family. Now the Duke of Cumberland having
motion, merely altering it so as to confine it to the inves-
become King of Hanover, the object of the act of Parlia-
tigation of the manner in which the penny-postage system meat was satisfied, for it was no longer necessary to make
had been carried out. a competent provision for a person who was now a foreign
Sovereign. . He warned the house not to try the patience
Mr. F. BARING said that the whole of Mr. Hill's plan
was comprehended in the engagement made with him, of
Sirth etip.e people far.tooLoAs
opposed
.the motion, and said that this
though it was anticipated that its adoption must be gra-
dual. It was with great regret that he had perceived Mr. country' should'not behave with less generosity toward the
Hill's retirement from the service of the public ; and from Duke of Cumberlandotho tthoawnhtohme Khienogoooftißnoaevdartihaehpardosvhisoiwonn
to his son King .
his great capabilities, the Government, having broken its
bargain with him, might remedy the evil by finding somee orhet
ohfis election. to the S. oy-
other situation in which his abilities could be employed to er whiche
ign t he eohf had madeGreece
washt.ra thboufg
advantage. It was not to be denied that the Post-office
authorities were adverse to the plan of Mr. Hill, and they The house then divided, and the motion was negatived
by a majority of 197 to 91.
ought not therefore to be left wholly to their own control
'
ill carrying it out. the house The other orders
ourned of the day were then disposed of, and
adj.