The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-06-16 00:00:00

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fibegt OF eCEMMONS,—MONDAY. ‘4`
I
The attendance of members was very full, owing to the

expected discussion on her Majesty's message.
Sir R. Pl.: EL moved an address to her Majesty, thanking
her for her most gracious message relative to the marriage of
the Princess Augusta of Cambridge. To this he anticipated
no objection, and he should afterwards move that the house
should resolve itself into committee to take the message into
consideration.
Mr. HUME moved an amendment, with the view of adding
„ that the house would take the message into consideratiot
s with adu

,ense of the state of the country in its finances

its commercial concerns, and the dist

ested couditic

vast portion of the population
Mr. WILLIAsts seconded the amendment
Sir R. PEEL hoped that the hon. members would not per-
severe, as the motion only pledged the house to take the
message into consideration, and in no way pledged hon. mem-
bers to any subsequent course. In committee he would
make his proposition, which he flattered himself would con-
vince the house that ministers were by no means indifferent
to the present condition of the country.
Lord Howrex suggested to the government the propriety
of only bringing forward its proposition on that evening, and
giving some time for its consideration by not asking the
chairman to report progress until a future evening.
. Sir lt. PEEL said that if after he had made his proposition
he should find the general feeling to be in favour of the
course suggested he would at once acquiesce, convinced as
he was that the value of his proposition would depend snore
upon the manner in which it was acceded to by the house
than by the force of numbers by which it might be carried.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped that this course would be pur-
sued, and that the right hon. baronet might be allowed to
state the proposal of the government.
Mr. llos.rit became nettled at some calls of " divide " from
the ministerial side of the house, while be was speaking in
redly, and said he would divide.
On the division, Mr. Hume's amendment was negatived
by a majority of 276 to 52.
The house then went into committee, and
Sir R. PEEL said that, in proposing to make a provision
for the Princess Augusta, the government had no intention
of making any immediate addition to the burdens of the
country. It was the intention of his Royal Highness the
Duke of Cambridge to make provisionTfor his daughter dur-
ing his own lifetime; and he, therefore, only proposed a
resolution to enable her Majesty to confer on the Princess
Augusta an annuity of £3OOO per annum after the death of
her father.
Mr. MACKINNON moved as an amendment, that the an-
nuity should be reduced to £2OOO, but to be granted from the
period of ber royal highness's marriage.
Sir R. PEEL said that the proposed reduction was in fact
► an increase on the grant be moved for, inasmuch as it would
. commence immediately; and he therefore hoped it would
not be entertained by the committee.
After some discussion, Mr. MACKINNON withdrew his

amendmen,.
Mr. WILLIAMs then adverted to the appointments held by
the Duke of Cambridge, and also said that there was a Duke
of Mecklenburg, the father or grandfather of the present
duke, who was already a pensioner on this country, and had
been so for a period of forty-five years. The sums paid to
these German princes and princesses who were allied to our
royal family already amounted to £200,000 per annum. This
fact and the distressed condition of the country justified him
in opposing the grant.
Sir H. DOUGLAS supported the motion for a grant to the
grand-daughter of that monarch who had voluntarily sur-
rendered the immense revenues of the crown to the control of
parliament.
Sir R. PEEL eventually consented to postpone the discus-
sion until Wednesday.
Colonel RUSHBROOKE then moved a new writ for the bo-
rough of Sudbury.
Mr. TUFN EL moved, as an amendment, that leave be given
to bring in a bill for effectual inquiry into bribery and corrupt
practices said to exist in the borough of Sudbury, the inquiry
which took place before the House of Lords having been
wholly inadequate. He contended that it was impossible
that the House of Commons could agree to the issue of a
writ after having passed a bill to disfranchise the borough.
He proposed that the commissioners of inquiry should be
empowered to go down to Sudbury, in order that the inves-
tigation might be thoroughly carried out.
Mr. C. W. WYNN said that the house would scarcely do
its duty if it did not inquire fully into the whole case, and he
would therefore move as an amendment that a committee
should be appointed to inquire into the causes which led the
House of Lords to throw out the bill for the disfranchisement
of Sudbury.
Mr. TUFNFLL withdrew his amendment to make room for
that of Mr. Wynn.
Colonel RUSHBROOKE contended that the evidence did not
affect the whole of the constituency, and he would therefore
take the sense of the house on his motion.
Sir R. Peet said that after the house bad almost unani-
mously passed the Sudbury Disfranchisement bill some in-
formation was required ,in order to explain why such very
imperfect evidence had been placed before the House of
Lords. This inquiry might perhaps justify the bill of Mr.
Tufnell, and should therefore precede it.
Colonel Rostrianoorc withdrew his motion, and M r.Wynn's
amendment was agreed to.
Mr. TUFNELL then moved that the writ for Sudbury
should be suspended for one month, which was agreed to.
On the motion for the house resolving itself into a com-
mittee of ways and means,
Lord Howtcg moved as an amendment for a committee of
the whole house on so much of the act 5 and G Victoria, c.
47 as related to the imposition of a duty on the exportation
of coals. His object was to obtain a repeal of the duty im-
posed last year, which could not have been laid on for the
purpose of economising our supply of coals, because it bad
been estimated that the coal fields of Durham and Northum-
berland would last fur upwards of 1700 years, without taking
into account the sepplies from Staffordshire and the other
inland counties. As there was nu fear of exhausting the
supply, there was no reason why our shipping interest should
be injured to the extent to which they were damnified by
that measure. It had caused the trade to fall off one-third,
although that trade had for some years previously increased
ten-fold under the system of free trade. In Germany and
other countries they were increasing the facilities of convey-
ance so far that if once they were enabled to supply the de-
mand which we were by this duty refusing to satisfy, we might
vainly seek hereafter to recover the trade by a reduction of
that duty to which its loss was to be attributed. As all il-
lustration of such short.sighted policy as that of attempting
to compel our neighbours to submit to taxation for our
benefit he quoted the case of Naples, which had sought to
compel this country to pay a tax which it levied upon the
exportation of sulphur. The result was, that our chemists
and manufacturers at home Lever rested until they had ac-
complished the manufacture of sulphur here, and thus after
Naples had retraced her policy she found that nevertheless
this country had been enabled to maintain competition with
her in our own markets, and that a considerable portion of
the trade in that article had been consequently lost to that
country. The proprietors of the Great Western steam-ship
were in the habit of sending out coals to America for the
consumption of the return voyage. The duty prevented
their doing so any longer, and they were now compelled to
make the return voyage with American coal. The right hon.
baronet had estimated the produce from the coal duty at
.£140,000, but it had only produced £lOO,OOO, from which
was to be deducted £12,000, the amount of the former duty.
This miscalculation, however, was not the only evil, for
he believed that the Treasury was a loser rather than a
gainer by a measure which by its indirect operation affected
every branch of trade in the kingdom.
Mr. GLADSTONE said be should not at that late hour reply
to the invectives against the Government, with which the
noble lord had interspersed his speech. He admitted that a
tax upon one branch of export necessarily had an effect upon
all other articles connected with it, and he also admitted that
to regain a trade once lost was far more difficult than was its
original attainment; but these were general propositions
which no one would dispute. The real question was whether
the finances of the country were in such a position as to per-
mit the opening up of the discussion of the repeal duties.
The short experience of nine months was not sufficient to
test the policy of this duty, which was not adopted until
after the fullest consideration. The right honourable gentle-
man contended at some length that the duty vas perfectly
justifiable under the circumstances of the country, and that
the estimates upon which Lord Howiek had grounded his
opposition to it were fallacious. The tailing off in the expor-
tation of coals, as shown by the noble lord, was only a falling
off as compared with the trade of last year; but last year's
trade was unnaturally swelled by the enormous exportation
which took place in anticipation of the duty. He was not of
opinion that the pressure on the shipping interest was to be
attributed to this tax, but rather to the general depression in
trade ; nor did he think any case had been made out calling
for the interference of the house.
Mr. H. HINDE said that the defence of the tax by Mr.
Gladstone amounted only to this, that the shipping interests
were not so badly off as they might have been. Ile thought
that no answer had been given to the case made out by Lord

Howick.
Lord HARRY VANE said that the result of the tax would
be to cause English capitalists to go over to France, to work
the coal mines in that country, of which there were no less
than sixty one open, though not worked.
Mr. BELL would support the motion, though he did not
think it well-timed and had done all he could to induce Lord
Howick not to bring it forward.
Sir G. CLERK contended that the tax had not depreciated
the shipping and trading interests as was insisted upon by
the noble lord.
Mr. LABOUCHERE contended that the coal and spirit du-
ties, which had been last year laid on, were wholly failures as
measures of revenue, while they had inflicted great mischief
on the shipping and other interests of the country. He
should vote against the tax because the evil it was producing
was out of all proportion to the amount of revenue it brought

Sir ROBERT PEEL reminded the house that there was still
a deficit in the revenue to meet the expenditure, and they
were not therefore in a position to listen to propositions for
the reduction of taxes. With respect to the diminution of
our export of coals to the United States, it was to be accoun-
ted for hv the fact that those states had levied a duty of no
less than 8s a ton on the importation of British coal. They
had not sufficient experience to judge of the operation of the
tax, and he therefore hoped the house would support the Go-
vernment in opposing the motion of the noble lord,
Mr. LIDDELL said that although in point of time he thought
the motion of Lord llowick injudicious, yet he should give
it his support. The motion being lost on division, by 187
to 124. the house went into committee pro forma, and re-
sumed.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the house adjourned.