The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-05-26 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, MAY 22.

Owing to the ballot for the committee on the Ennis election
petition taking place this day, the gallery was not opened till a
quarter past four.

LIVERPOOL POLICE AND CLERGY BILL.

r. SPIERS moved the second reading ofthisbill.
Mr. Ewa RT, after presenting three petitions againstsit, from
Liverpool, said be Should feel it his duty to his constituents to
oppose it. The bill was not so much for establishing a police in
Liverpool as for appropriating a portion of the funds of-the cor-
poration of that town to the permanent payment of the esta-
blished clergy there, thus removing, them from that public con-
trol to .which their payment was at present in a great degree
subjected, and placing' it altogether beyond it. Ile begged to
state, that during the last ten years there were paid out of the
corporation funds of Liverpool to the clergy, and for the repair-
ing and building of churches, no less a sum than £120,000;
would the house add to that enormous sum, and allow it to be
furnished out of funds to which the dissenters and the catholics
contributed equally, as well as the members of the established
church? He thought that such a tax would be most unjust.
As to the necessity of a new police in Liverpool, be begged to
say, that it had been declared by the commissioners of corpora-
tion inquiry, that they had a most excellent police in that town,
and the same statement had been made by the superintendent
of police, who had been sent down there by Sir R. Peel. The
real object of this bill was to anticipate and take from the in-
tended measure of municipal reform, and to saddle the payment
of the clergy of the established church in Liverpool upon all
classes there. He moved that the bill be read a second time
that day six mouths.
Lord SANDON said, that in the course of last year, when the
church rate bill was before parliament, it was apparent to the
people of Liverpool that their regular clergy, whose payment
depended almost altogether upon the rates, must, on their aboli-
tion, look to sonic other prOvlsion, and this suggested itself as
the best. When Liverpool was converted from a hamlet into a
parish, the rights of the rectors were commuted for £lOO a-year
each, and a house and garden ; by a subsequent act that was
increased to 1:400 a-vear. In the course of time this amount
was-increased to 1.1-,5001-year,"to be distributed between two
rectors and four curates. The noble lord, after dwelling upon
the numerous duties which the regular clergy had to discharge
in Liverpool, stated that a deputation from Liverpool waited
last year upon Lords Althorp and John Russell, and that they
concurred with the deputation, that in the event of church rates
being abolished, some such provision as this should be made for
the clergy there. A rate was not fixed upon, as it had this ob-
jection, that a rate would still be .levied for ecclesiastical pur-
poses upon all, classes by act of parliament, and the present
ar-
rangenrent was, after much consideration, deemed satisfactory
by all. He begged to state, that upon various occasions various
portions of the inybitants of Liverpool waited upon the cor-
poration, requesting thrum to take upon them the expense of
maintaining the regularelergy there. '!'his was for no party
purpose—it was no tarty jab. The necessity for it was co,„
cursed in by all. With regard to the police, he begged to say,
that though the present police of Liverpool might, like the po-
lice of Bow-street, be fully adequate fur the apprehension of
delinquents, there existed the greatest necessity in that large
town for a preventive police, such as the new police of London.
There was a pesuliaritv connected with the corporation of Li-
verpool, that they enjoyed a portion of propel ty, free land,
which would amply defray the interest of the sum required, and.
which had been given to them exclusively fortlietmtrhpaotsoeiolef
maintaining the clergy. T his was riot the occasion to enter
into the question as to whether it was a right principle
sect should pay for the clergy of another, but as long as the
house deemed it advisable fur the benefit of the general com-
munity that the clergy of a religion supported by time state should
be paid for by all classes, he was sure that such observations as
those made by his hon. colleague would make no impression
upon parliament. This proposition had been made to a most
numerous vestry in Liverpool, and adopted by it, and at last
Easter the inhabitants of Liverpool elected a vestry unani-
mously in favour of the bill. Unless the house went the length
that the spiritual wants of the people of Liverpool should not be
supplied, on church rates being abolished, they must look to
some other fund for the purpose, and the government must take
the subject tothei r hands. -He was sure that they heves would
adopt the principle of his hon. colleague, that it was not fair
that the clergy of the established church should be maintained
in preference to others.
Mr. PRYME said that the merits of the question resolved
themselves into a single point. It was not so much whether
the clergy of a peculiar region should be maintained by all
classes, but whether a fund destined for the benefit of the com-
munity at large should hare a portion of it appropriated to the

benefit of a pa;ticular part of that community. (Hear, hear.)
Corporate funds, he maintained; were held in trust for the be-
nefit of the whole community. He stated his belief that the
churches of Liverpool were very inadequately endowed, and he
'should like to see endowments made for them, but he must
maintain that the corporation funds, to which the dissenters
contributed, should not be appropriated to such purposes. He
would therefore vote for the amendment.

Mr.'THORNEtY said that he had been requested to support
the petition which his bon. friend the member for Liverpool
had just laid upon the table of the house. Locally connected
with Liverpool, he was able to state that the majority of the
inhabitants were strongly opposed to the bill now under con-
sideration, and it was regarded by them as an evasion in antici-
pation of the measure of municipal reform which it was gene.
rally understood to be in the contemplation of his majesty's
government to submit to the legislature. The bill might have
the support of the corporate body, which was said to consist of
the mayor, bailiffs, and burgesses, though the business was
conducted by 41 self-elected common councilmen, but he denied
that this body represented the feelings of the majority of the
town. The subject had been brought under the consideration
of the parish vestry in October last, when, out of between 8000
and 9000 ratepayers, only 97 attended. The rector was in the
chair, and granted a poll on its being demanded, when 63 per-
sons voted in favour of the bill, and 34, of whom he (Mr. Thor-
uely ) had been one, voted against it. He contended that this
small division did not by any means manifest the feelings of the
town on the subject; and though the bill had been rec enecend-
ed by the grand jury and by the recorder, still it ought to be
remembered that the latter, as well as the foreman of the grand
jury, was a member of the corporation. In short, he was satisfied
this bill would never have been heard of had it not been that
certain parties in the corporation wished to steal a march on the
°good effects expected from the general government measure of
municipal reform, and upon the result of the bill with reference
to church-rates. On the whole the corporate funds, amounting
to £lOO,OOO per annum (of which £50,000 was paid by the na-
tives of England, Ireland, and Scotland, in the shape of town
dileS,) were perfectly adequate for the addition which this bill
contemplated fixing upon the public, (hear, hear,) and he should
certainly vote the amendment moved by his hon. friend, that
this bill he read a second time this day six months.
Lord F. EGEKTON said he should not have risen but that he
wished to call the attention of the hon. member for Cambridge
(Mr. Prvme) to one fact. The hon. member had objected to
the bill, because it contemplated a diversion of corporate pro-
perty to purposes other than that for which it was intrusted to
the corporate body. He begged to inform the hon. member;
that very considerable property was vested in the corporation
of Liverpool, for the express purpose of enabling them to pro-
vide adequately for the rectors and clergy of that extensive and
important parish, and theretbre the objection of the honourable
member was done away with, so far as the provisions in the bill
with reference to the clergy. On this bill a vestry had been held
in the manner stated by the hon. member for Wolverhampton;
but since that period a still more recent general vestry had been
held, as stated by his noble friend (the member for Liverpool, )
when not a single voice was raised against the bill, though the
attention of the meeting was specifically called to it. He (Lord
F. Egerton) did not mean to deny that many respectable per-
sons.resident in Liverpool might be opposed to the bill, but he
thought the hon. member for Liverpool (Mr. Ewart) was rather.
hard when he treated the bill as a job, emanating from some
corner of that large towu, and unsupported by respectability.
If he (Lord F. Egerton) considered this bill a job, no influence
should induce him to vote for it. He believed the bill was sanc-
tioned by strong feelings of approbation held by a considerable
majority of the inhabitants of the town, and he should feel it his
duty to give his best support to the bill.
Mr. SHELL said that the noble lord had suggested that the
corporation of Liverpool held considerable property in trust for
the maintenance of the church. If that were so, he begged to
ask why, by this bill, it was sought to make a portion of the pay-
ment of the Liverpool clergy permanent on the people, instead
of continuing, as now, temporary and gratuitous ? (Hear, hear.)
At the present moment the corporation was bound to support
the whole police force of the town, and yet this bill went to
charge the public of Liverpool with two-thirds of the expense
of maintaining the increased and additional force. (Hear.)
He knew, from information he had received, that the majority of
the people of Liverpool were adverse to this measure, which he
agreed in thinking was only an evasion of the promised govern-
ment measure of municipal reform. Other corporations were
making similar preparations and arranging other devices, and
as a proof be would read to the house a notice which had been
given to him by au hon. member. The notice was to this effect:
—"The corporation of Lincoln are now assembled in Common-
hall, to make a sudden disposal of all the property hitherto held
amongst themselves, (Hear.) They had just broken up .the
meeting, the decision being to convert the whole property into
freehold immediately, so that if corporation reform takes place
it cannot be made available to public uses." If the corpora-
tions were sincere in their wish for improvement, let them wait
until, the general measure of municipal reform was brought for-
ward, without making precipitate attempts such as the present.
(Hear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY could not help thinking that the house would
be more likely to fall into the error of coming to a precipitate
conclusion, if it so far departed from its usual course as to reject
this bill on the motion for its second -reading, and thus to deal
with it on mere assertion, on one side or the other, instead of
sifting those assertions before the proper tribtinal—viz. in com-
mittee. (Hear, hear.) He regretted that the hon. and learned
Member for Tipperary should have thought it necessary to mix
up with this subject those general attacks on the very name of
Corporations, so general, when very shortly, he hoped, a measure
for their reform would be brought finder the consideration of the
legislature. The hon. and learned gentleman hail said that the
Cast proportion of the people of Liverpool were strongly op-
posed to this bill. This was the point for fair inquiry before the
committee upon the bill;• but surely the house would not deal
with the bill on assertions, however adroitly introduced as rhe-
torical ornaments. It appeared, in fact, that of the whole in-
habitants only thirty-four had recorded their voles against this
bill. A petition against the bill also had been intrusted to the
hon. member for Liverpool (Mr. Ewart) from sixteen indi-
Viduals holding office in Liverpool; but that petition had been
withdrawn, and those sixteen individuals ha.t, when their con-
duct in respect to this bill came under the revision of the vestry,
been removed from office. (Cries of "No, no.") The number
constituting the body from which the petition emanated wag
eighteen, and of these, two had been re-elected by the vestry to
office, while the sixteen who had petitioned had been replaced by
others who were known to be in favour of the present bill.
(llear, hear.) The question of church-rates stood -iii Liver-
pool iu a very peculiar situation, and even if the bill introduced
by the government of Earl Grey, in reference' to church-rates,
had been proceeded with, it would have h: en absolutely ne-
cessary to introduce in it special provisions for the town of Liver-
pool, "It was with this view that the parish, and not the cor-
poration of Liverpool, sought to combine in one bill the two
great objects—viz., a proosion for an increased police force,
and an arrangement with reference to their church-rates. In-
stead of throwing out this bill precipitately, let the house sift
it from first to last. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned gen-
tletnau had not fairly stated the grounds upon which be sought
to have the bill precipitately thrown out upon its second read-
ing. It had been agreed both by the inhabitants and the cor-
poration of Liverpool that this bill would give greater stability'
to the maintenance of the clergy of that large and increasing
town, and that might be the reason why the hon. and learned
gentleman might wish to
.throw out the bill, and thereby pre-
vent the completion of that benefice' object. (Cheers.) The
hon. and learned member ought, however, to remember that the.
corporation of Liverpool held a considerable portion of their
p roerry under a grant to enable them to provide for the clergy
of the established church in that town, which was daily rising
into importance. (Cheers.) That grant had never been op-
posed either by dissenters or any other class, from the year 1702
to the time at which he was now speaking. (Hear, beer.) He
therefore, under these circumstances, hoped the house *Gould not
act with such injustice (as he must call it) as to postpone inde-
finitely this bill, but would refer it to a committee, by which its
details could be examined, and he should also hope his noble
friend opposite would not in such a case press the third reading
until the house should have before it the two great government
• measures on municipal reform and church-rates, when it could
be seen whether the present bill contained any provisions which
were inconsistent with those bills. This he suggested as a fair
and proper course to be pursued on the present occasion.
Mr. SHELL said he did not rise for the purpose of adverting
to the very unprovoked attack which had been made upon him
by the noble lord who had just sat down. (Hear, hear, and
loud cries of " Order.") He perhaps had no right to complain
of what he would not designate tevanton and venomous attack.
(Great confusion and renewed cries of "Order.") He had
risen to explain. (Cries of "Spoke,'.'. "Order.")
Lord STANLEY.-If I have used a single word that is per-
sonally offensive to the hon. and learnid member, I beg his
pardon. ( Hear, hear.)
Mr. SHEIL again rose amidst loud cries of "Spoke," "Order."
The noble lords words weie like the spear of Achilles, wound-
ing at one end and healing at the other. (Renewed cries of
"SPoke.") lie (Mr. Shell) rose to explain. He 'll4l. made
no statement with respect to the town of Liverpool upon his
own authority (as was alleged), but upon that of the hon. mem-
ber for Liverpool (Mr. Ewart), and of the hon. member for
fWolverhampton (Mr. Thornely.) The noble lord had entirely
orgotten those two hon. gentlemen, and had done him •(Mr.
Shed) the honour of solely alluding to him. The hon. and
learned member was proceeding with some further observa-
tions, which, from the confusion in the house, were wholly in-
audible, when
Sir R. INGLIS rose and put it to the chair whether the hon.
and learned member was not making a distinct speech, instead
of confining himself to explanation.
The SPEAKER was understood to say that the hon. and
learned member was in order in explaining the authority upon
which he made his statement, but was certainly out of order in
proceeding with comments on the speech of the noble lord the
member for North Lancashire.
Mr. SiiKIL said he should bow of course to the decision °Nile
chair, however hardly lie felt he was dealt with.
Sir R. INGLis said that in the course of his parliamentary
life he had never heard any hon. member repeat an attack
alter,
,luiving received such an apology as had been rhestie in
this instance. -

111 r: FINN rose to order, but was wholly inaudible.
Sir R. INGLIS said the hon. member for Kilkenny did not
know him (Sir R. Inglis) if he thought to put • him down by
interruption. The hon. and learned member for Tipperary
was the first person in his (Sir R. Inglis's) memory (and he
hoped.he would be the last) that, after receiving such an apo-
logy as had been made by his noble friend opposite (Lord
Stanley), again and again attempted to come to the attack.
(Cheers, and cries of "Question.") 'Phis being a supply night,
he should rather have expected that the hon. and learned mem-
ber would have reserved himself for the motion in reference to
the established church, of which he had given notice prior to
the recess, for the present discussion rather bore upon the ob-
ject of that motion. The hon. and learned member might well
have left it to those who were locally concerned and interested
in the onestion. ("Question.")'
• Mr. Witxs hoped the house would not allow the bill to pro-
Ceed further, as he could state front his own personal knowledge
that it had met with the disapprobation of the majority of the
most wealthy and respectable inhabitants of Liverpool.—
The majority of that population were dissenters from the esta-
blished church, and he was not astonished that the hon. and
learned member for Tipperary should oppose the bill, when he
recollected that 4-]6ths of the inhabitants professed that faith
to which the hon. and learned member was attached. Not-
withstanding the repeal of the corporation and test acts, the
corporation of Liverpool had not yet admitted a single dissen-
ter into their councils nor upon the bench as a magistrate,
though the majority of the bankers in the town were dissenters
from the established church. They had therefore peculiarly jest
grounds for complaint, and rrtoe so with reference to this bill,
which in truth was framed for the purpose of giving a perma-
nent appropriation of the public molter raised front dissenters
as well as churchmen to the clergymen of the establishment
(hear)t although the corporation was bound to provide for
them. If the trust had been such as had this night been de-
scribed, how could the corporation of Liverpool reconcile their
conduct for the last 70 years, during which the rector and four
curates had been paid £l6O a year each out of the church-rates?
(Hear, hear.) He hoped therefore,-on all these grounds, that
the house would not proceed further with the bill.
Mr. M. PHILIPS said that the object of the bill was not in-
telligible from the title. It professed to be a bill for the pur-
pose of forming a new body of conservative police, whereas, on
looking into its provisions, he was astonished to find something
like:a church conservative bill. (Hear, hear.) He 'should sup-
port the amendment. .

Lord SANDON said he was anxious to remove the impression
which the observations of the hon. member for Manchester
would convey, and to do so would read the title of the bill. It
was entitled "A bill to provide a day police in the town of
Liverpool, and to provide for the payment of the local clergy."
(Hear, hear.)
Colonel SIBTLIORP did not rise for the purpose of prolonging
the present discussion, but to state in reference to what had
fallen from the hon. and learned member for Tipperary respect-
ing the corporation of Lincoln, that he was satisfied that body
would come out.pure and unsullied from any investigation that
might be instituted into their proceedings.
Dr. BowaING would not have risen on this occasion, had he.
not felt wounded by the observations of the hon. member op-
posite, which he considered to bear hard upon him as a dis-
senter from the established church. (Hear, hear.) He owed
it to the great cause of religious truth and of religious liberty t.)
protest against the attempt of the hon. member to throw oppro-
brium on the great body of English diseenters. (Hear, hear.)
He did not intend to say any th'ng more (loud cries of "hear")
except that he protested against all attempts to set up that
house as a religious tribunal. (Loud cries " Hear" and "Oh,
oh!")

Mr. O'CONNELL rose to protest against this bill on behalf of
parties who were large contributors to the funds which it pro-
fessed to regulate. His constituents, the inhabitants of the city
of Dublin, contributed very largely to the.funds of the corpora-
tion of Liverpool. (Hear.) He protested against the bill on
other grounds. Of these, one was that there were 4.5,000 catho-
lics in Liverpool. (An hon. member—"62,o(Xo.") He was
reminded that there were upwards of 60,000 catholics in Liver-
pool according to the last census, and yet not one Roman ca-
tholic had ever yet been admitted into the corporation of that
borough. (Hear, hear.) That was the boasted liberality of
the corporation of Liverpool. (" Hear; hear," and a laugh.)
The number of protestant dissenters in Liverpool was not small,
and yet they were excluded, as well as the catholics, from the
corporation. (Hear.) And still the house heard of charges of
bigotry brought against those who differed from these oppres-
sors and exclusionists. (" Hear, hear," from the ministe-
rial benches.) He was not surprised at the course which the
noble lo'rd had pursued with regard to this bill. He was not
surprised at his including parsons and policemen in the same
act; for the noble lord was known to be friendly to one as well
as to the other. (A laugh.) He contended that this bill was,
a downright fraud upon the house. (" Hear, hear, and. "Oh,
oh !") There was not one word iu the recital of it, there was
not one word in the preamble, about the clergy. (An hon.
member—" There is in the title.) Oh, yes, there was in the
title; but when the committee reported that the allegations in
the preamble were proved, they did not report that a single word
about the parsons was proved. (Hear, hear.) Till you came
to the 14th page of the bill not one word did you meet about the
clergy: and there, 'at last, you found them under a clause of
which the marginal note was "limitation of actions." How,
in the name of wonder, could a parson grow up such a clause?"
(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) He had heard of a turnpike
bill, in which the mayor of a borough—he forgot whether it was
Bristol or Liverpool—contrived to introduce a clause to send
his slaves front one island in the West Ihdies- to another, in
spite of any local acts to the contrary. (" Hear, hear," and
laughter.) In this bill the corporation of Liverpool made a
strange jumbling of parsons and policemen • and that, forsooth,
because they held certain funds in trust for the clergy. (Hear.)
Now the corporation of Liverpool did not want an act of par-
liament to authorize them to exercise that trust. Oh, no; they
only wanted an act of parliament to extend and enlarge it.
(Hear.) There was something oratorical in stating that only
thirty-four persons in Liverpool had voted against this measure,
and in concealing
.the fact that sixty-three had voted for it.
(Hear.) When, in addition to that, they found that, no pro-
testant dissenter and that no Roman catholic had voted upon it
at all, had they not some kind Of proof that the inhabitants of
Liverpool generally were not favourable to the measure ?
(Hear.) " The plain matter of fact (continued Mr. O'Connell)
is this—it is an attempt to frustrate the great measure of corpo-
ration reform; which we have in contemplation to bring in. (A
tremendous burst of hears' from the opposition benches followed
this annunciation, accompanied also by some laughter.) I mean
all of us on this side of the house, (hear, hear,) and some of you
on that side, (hear hear,) for nearly all arc agreed on the ne-
cessity of such ameasure, (hear, hear ;) and in the meantime
this private bill is brought in and is to go to a committee; and
then, when it is reported, by some accident or other, as has hap-
pened before, some gentlemen, who have not heard a word of
its merits, may come down and vote for it, in defiance of all
reason, and may get sixty three persons together to outvote us,
who do know something of its demerits, whenezer, the question
on.the third reading was to be decided." (Hear, bear.) The
hon. and learned gentleman then proceeded to ask his opponents
wh, if they wanted a police bill, they did no introduce a police
billy? Why, if they wanted a parson bill, they did not introduce
a parson bill ? ('-Wear.) Why this unnatural conjunction of
thieftakers and preachers ? (A laugh.) It was a most pre-
posterous conjunction, and yet who made it ridiculous. (Hear,
hear.) Was it those who attacked it, or those who, in drawing
it up, had been guilty of so preposterous a combination as par-
sons and policemen? (Hear, hear.) He knew that insinua-
tions had been thrown out against hon. members on his side of
the house by those who dared not speak openly. (Ministerial
cheers.) There was not a'worse species of persecution than
that of attackiuo men by hints •and insinuations. If any man
in that house had been guilty of that which had beets foully and
falsely stated elsewhere (loud cheers from the ministerial
benches,) let us have it boldly stated here, where we can meet
the charge. (Cheers repeated.) In these _remarks he was
alluding to those who had insinuated out of the house what no
man yet dared to assert within it. (Cheers from the,same
quarter.) If there were any man in that house who believed
in those insinuations, let him put them forth directly in wor!s ;
till that was done he should treat them with sovereign disregard.
(Cheers repeated.)
Mr. GOULBURN said that the hon. and learued member for
Dublin complained of those who insinuated motives against
those who conducted, or took part in, public affairs; and yet
the whole of his speech had been an insinuation of motives
against those who had brought forward this bill. (Hear, hear.)
He had stated that their intention was to obtain surreptitiously
a provision for the clergy of Liverpool under the plea that it
was a provision for the police of that borough. (Hear, hear.)
No one, said the hon. and learned member, would understand
from the preamble that thesbill contemplated a provision for the
clergy. But what was the title of the bill ? His noble friend
the member for Liverpool had read it, and it was in these words
—" Bill to establish a day police for, and to provide for the
payment of an annual sum to the clergy 'of, the borough of Li-
verpool." (Hear, hear.) " But the preamble,"—said the hon.
and learned gentleman—"does not contain one word about the
clergy." (Cheers from the ministerial benches.) Was not the
hon. and learned gentleman aware that there were two pream-
bles to this bill ? One related to the police, and the other, ad-
verting to the payment of the clergy, first stated the expediency
of making a certain payment to the clergy, then explained the
details of that payment, and last of all enacted how ft should be
• made and enforced. (Hear, hear.) And that' 'being the bill,
the hon. and learned member for the city of Dublin, in the face
of all the facts, imputed to the hon. gentlemen On his side of the
house the monstrous charge of acting surreptitiously, and even
fraudulently ? (Great cheering from thwoppositiombenches.)
'file question before them, stripped of all superfluous matter, was
simply this :—There had been an arrangemententered into by
the interested parties in Liverpool for the establishment of a
better police, and fur an annual provision for the clergy. Those
parties had desired the house•to consider whOher that arrange-
ment was fair and
.proper, and whether the funds which were
now in the possession of the corporation of Liverpool for the
maintenance of the clergy, and also of the police, separately,
could be combined and applied to the maintenance of both. He
insisted that common justice required the house to grant a com-
mittee to inquire whether it ought to affirm that arrangement or
not. " No,' said the hon. and learned member for Dublin,
" no, I will not entertain that arrangement, however favourably
it may have been viewed by the inhabitants of Liverpool. I
willnot hear or admit of any such inquiry, lest it bring princi-
ples to which I object under the favourable notice of the house,
and therefore I will proceed at once to crush the bill." (Hear,
hear.) That was not acting with common fairness. (Hear,
hear.) Common fairness required that they should let this bill
go to a committee—that they should inquire whether the corpo-
ration of Liverpool had a right to apply these funds as was now
proposed, and that they should decide after inquiry upon the
propriety of this bill. (Hear, hear.)
Air. O'Coaisigu. said that the right hon. gentleman had
checked and reproached him for accusing others of making
insinuations which could not be dealt with its direct chames,
and had at the same time accused him of dealing in insinuations
against the promoters of this bill. Now he (Mr. O'Connell)
had insinuated no charge. (Hear, hear.) What he had done
was an instance of the difference between insinuation and direct
charge. (Cheers from the ministerial benches.) He had made
a direct charge, and not an insinuation, against the parties.
(Hear.) With regard to the observations made by. the right
hon. gentleman on the preamble. be would ()lily say, " Look at
the bill, and ace what I have alluded to. Up to page 12, taking
the entire preamble and all the clauses which follow it, there is
not one word about the clergy to be found. In pave 13, in the
section on the limitation of actions. you have for the first time,.
by a rhetorical flourish, I suppose, (a laugh,) a preamble in the
middle of a clause. (' Hear, hear,' and a laugh.) There we
find the clergy fur the first time. That is a queer way of having
.a preamble." (Hear.)
Mt. GOULBURN.—The hon. and learned gentleman said that
there was an intention to take persons by surprise (loud cries of
" hear,") in introducing provisions for the payment of the clergy
in a bill providing for the expense of the police. I stated, and
I now repeat the statement, that the title specifies both objects
(hear, hear;) and though the first preamble of the bill, which
relates to the 'police, says nothing about the clergy, yet, before
the' question of the payment of the clergy was entered upon,
there is a distinct preamble in the bill respecting it. (Hear,
hear.) •
_

Au hon. member (name unknown) congratulated the govern-
ment on the accession which had been openly made to it that
evening. (Hear, hear.)
Mr.-POTTER said that the bill did not at first bear the title
which it bad now. The title was altered, afterlks him._ friend
near him (Mr. Swart, we "believe,)'had called attention to the
difference between the title of the bill and its substance. (Hear,
hear.) He .had always thought that the preamble of a bill was
its first clause (hear, liear,) and the clause said nothing about
the clergy. It would create no small surprise in the country to
be told that they were in future to look to the middle of a bill
for its preamble. ( A laugh.)
Lord SANDorq ruse to address the house: but the cries of
" Withdraw, withdraw," prevented him from proceeding.
The house divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
Against it

Majority for the second reading .... 14'
Silt WM. GOSSETT.
Mr. W. S. O'BiiiEts begged to ask whether 'Sir W. Gossett
had been removed from the situation which he filled in•lreland,
and whether, if such were the case, the government could not
find an Irishman to fill a situation so comparatively humble as
the one alluded to? (Hear, hear.) lie did not put the ques-
tion in order to embarrass the government, but it ,was a thine
much desired in Ireland that such situations should be filled by
Irishmen.

Lord J. Russat.r. expressed his regret that he could not then
answer the question of the hon. member.

LORD PALMERSTON. •
The Earl of DARLINGToN had also a question to
.put to the
noblelord opposite on a subject of some importance. He had
seen the appointment of Lord Palmerston to the office of prin-
cipal secretary for foreign affairs gazetted,- and the qUestion he
wished to have answered was, whether it was intended that the
noble lord should be raised to the dignity of a British peer, or
whether any vacancy was likely soon to occur which would en-
able him to obtain a seat in that house? (Hear, hear, and
great laughter.) He (Lind Darlington) asked for explanation
on these two points, because it was unprecedented that the
noble lord—that a cabinet minister should continue to hold the
high office he now filled without having a seat in either house
of parliament. ( Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said the noble lord's question involved a
number of points. He first asked wlitither it was intended by
the government to raise to the dignity of a British peer a eel.-
taig individual ? Next, if any hon. member of. that house
purposed vacating his seat to make room for the noble lord
whose Caine had been mentioned ? And, finally, if he could
neither obtain a seat in the other house of parliament or in that,
whether it was his intention to relinquish the office to which he
had been appointed-? It might, to be sure, be a question
whether there was any-body of elect4.irs who wt.urld be disposed to

NPA Y 26,

.
elect the noble individual alluded to as their representanre;,
aDtl
perhaps four or five or more other questions might be e/te'.,l
reference to Lord Palmerston's retention of the officeoriblez6t,
secretary, but they were all, he (Lord J. Russell) must sabula
questions of so extraordinary and novel a nature that be "u

nut be expected to answer them.
The Earl of DARLINGTON.—Did the noble lord deny tbst it
was unprecedented for a minister of state—a cabinet minister—:
to hold office without occupying at the same time a seat in Pal
liament ? (Hear, hear.) to to
Lord J. RUSSELL said that if such a state of things were II
be of loneontinuance—if a minister of the crown were to 114,
office fora hing time without being privileged to sit in Par'
ment there would be some ground fur bringing the matterbefo±:
the house; but that was not the case in the present instal!:
inasmuch as his noble friend's absence from parliament'
merely temporary.
Mr. A. TnEvon (as we understood) gave notice that on 1211.1. el.:
day next he should move that the information received by
government relative to the riots, in consequence of the poor by
amendment act, in Bedfordshire and Eastbourne, in Sussex'
laid before the house.

IPAL CORPORATIONS.
Lord J. RUSSELLMUNI gave notice that he should, on Monday tb!
Ist of June, move fin. leave to bring in a bill for the better ree
lotion of the'
municipal corporations in England and Vi°
(Loud cheers from the ministerial benches.)
DISSENTERS' MARRIAGES BILL.
Sir R. PEEL then moved that the dissenters' marriages bin
be read a second time.
After a short discussion the bill was read a second time and
ordered to be committed that day three weeks.

COLONEL FOX.
In answer to a question from Colonel SIETHORPE, LO
RUSSELL said that it was not the intention of government
" transport" Colonel Fox to Canada as a commissioner.

ARMY ESTIMATES.
Lord liowicx moved the several items of these estimatet
which were all agreed to with hut very little comment fr°'
either side of the house.

The Douse adjourued at twelve o'elpck

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE.

The prom monstre still.progresses in Paris, though the Ol-
rest which the proceedings at first excited is fast evaporatl
The capital continued tolerably tranquil. The marriage of ti,
Princess Marie with Prince Leopold of Naples is conlident'l
stated to take place next month at Pontainbleau.
The greatest uproar prevails in Madrid. The Prime Minis.
ter, Mattinez de la Rosa, narrowly escaped assassination .1•
leaving the chamber the other day, the foremost of his assal t
ants being National or Urban Guards. Queen Christine vras
Aranjuez, and it is not expected will ever return again to the cain
tal. The greatest disorganization exists in the troops under:
command of Valdez, while the victorious Zumalacarregui ,
full march.uon Vittoria with thirteen battalions. The inter
vention of France seems now to be seriously spoken of, ,
measute about which we consider a great deal more will be saT,
than done. The next intelligence from the Spanish capital wl"
be highly important and interesting:
" Portugal continues tolerably quiet. Nothing further has
transpired relative to the fresh nuptials of Donna Maria.
The affairs of Austria, Russia, and the Northern PoweFsl
present nothing of consequence to'remark upon. save the de"!.
of the Emperor of Austria's indisposition. Belgium and 11'1
land remain in state quo.

BUENOS AYRES.
We have t.eceived, by the Cora, which arrived on Saturdel
Buenos Ayres papers to the 10th of March. They contain
particulars of a most appalling crime-the murder of Genqa
..
.uiroga and his retinue, consisting. of nine persons. The tseed
neral was on his return from a mission, having been appni.l2„.tir
mediator in the differences which compromised the tranclui"ll„
of the provinces of Salta and Tucuman. The frightful gen;
occurred at a place called Barranca Yaco, about niOteeof
leagues from Cordova, about eleven o'clock on the morning
the 16th February. The mediatory commission was travellino
at a slow pace on accp.int of the delicate state of General Q 01;
roga's health, when arriving at the above-mentioned sphuscaeot, whi,e,
c
is a thick wood, a band of villains, who bad been in ambuscade'
suddenly rushed out upon the coach, discharged their carbines,
and commenced the work of extermination and horror, the el.
ecution of which was facilitated by the rapidity of the surprise
and the fatal confidence with which the unfortunate victims trs,:,
yelled. A courier, named Marin, was the only person 1.4"
escaped the massacre, and he owed his safety to having been`
short distance in the rear of the coach. Various conjectur:
were afloat at Buenos Ayres as to the motives for the utrociou
deed some that it was political,. others, that it proceeded frore
private revenge or the act of robbers. The event had produced
a powerful sensation in the Argentiue capital.
Dr. Nlaza, the Governor, ad interim, had, in conseqnence
the difficult situation of the count's-, aggravated by the la'
events in the interior, resigned his office. The house of repre-
sentatives accepted the resignation, and General Rosas had been
nominated Governor for the ordinary term of three years, with
the investiture of extraordinary powers for such time as the Woe
might deem expedient.