The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-02-12 00:00:00

en was mooted, that so far from a repeal of the
remedy for the political ills and social grievances
would bitterly, perhaps incurably, aggravate both.
id they want a separation ? a Hibernian rep
, their conduct was comprehensible and consist(
eland to be a second Hanover ?-a nominal King ii
iirtual government in Dublin ? England might b
mover at war. Now, this was not the aim of 1
Ireland. Well, then, they meant one exeS
3 independent legislatures. This was utterly it
.h the first principles of the science of governnae
h a state of things as two independent legislatures
ual executive, possible ? The King's Bench
;ht be independent of and, as to Ireland, co-equa
Ifs's Bench in London, but it was wholly otherwiseshinery of legislation. Suppose that the English
umous was favourable to war, while the Irish Hous
is declared that we should remain at peace le rt, at which our ambassador had in vain sought 0
e national grievance, would the honourable met' presentative to that power from the King of En
:her from the King of Ireland? Or suppose th
al ambassador impeached in Ireland, while t
lament was voting thanks for his diplomatic con
:wo Houses remain under the same executive
? Did not Ireland, herself furnish a painfully
nof direct application ? In 1782 she obtain
time, the semblance of an independent legislat
irable events which, 18 short years after, led to
icing the two separate and independent Parham
lemselves as to the possible existence of such as
778 the English Parliament chose the Prince
.
a with extensive restrictions, while the Parham
chose him regent without any restrictions
choice of the same person was merely an accident
: have had one regent with her independent 1
:ngland another; and this, too, without yiolatira
on. These facts would show the monstrosity
sition as two independent legislatures under one
et which all history confirmed-namely, that it w
ally, and, he might add, physically Impossible il
lent legislatures to co-exist under one executive.s
rievances of Ireland were not peculiar to
hear
udges, tyrannical magistrates, and sinecurista
it to any form of government. If a local legis
say to redress grievances in Ireland, why not
Cornwall? Nay, to come nearer to his ow
-Leeds; he could assure the House that a 1
his constituents complained loudly and with g ,
grievances imposed by its corporation; but
l
ei thrown out to him that the best remedy w
hing a nice little federal independent don:testi'
the west riding of Yorkshire. (Hear.) IV
aestant Ulster and Catholic Munster have t Ait flam low desire,
ee„
tislatures? (Hear.) Why should not the 0 h " Each
ach purer spar low objects of desik defll'fl by baser ti . y have his Parliament as well as the Catholic
of a Was the Parliament round which the members for Dublin
1. member for Lincoln had not made a fair a en ,''s Tipperary were now breathing their funereal strains.
observations of his (Mr. Macattley's) whip as'''. Of the anti-commercial e which it invented out of
He stated. at that time, that although the aftieustaseatholic code, which it protectpd—of the treaty of Lit
der discussion had been mainly caused. hv the,.
,ik, which it violated—of the Penal Laws, by which it re-_
.tion turning a deaf ear to the cries of tire Pla',,e,s4, the Catholics to the condition of hewers of wood and such daring violations of the law ought not al toi rs of water ; ten tell us that th.e old Parliamet o
1. All agreed as to the necessity of punishing the )End aught to be revived! He should like to see that Par-differed-as to the time when. He would not ber-,t• returning in procession, headed by Mr. O'Connell and..
St. bile.
invent that would delay to redress grievances, isi t Which
He should like to see in a bodily torm, that.Palliall-
mean time to see the law outraged—nay, desal '- —Lich had been branded by the burning eloquence of all
s and misguided multitude? Talk of the disUl'a,saiatest patriots of which Ireland could boast.—lii conclu-
h property in a country in which no properts,:,s's_t to remarked, that Mr. Shell
which he
overwhelmed by
was respected, and be told that to enforc
he robber, and the murderer, and the incendiai '-'l', but had indulged in a sort of by pl. y which had
Prn he ou ffensive to Ms. Shell, .
:zi' : ;:
ties
eo.nad.
eo ci ) t. s
with o f Mr. Macauley, hadn not attempted to
no-
an injured people into civil war! (Cheers.) v thithe real subject of debate.e-- He' did not mean
war has long since begun, and, if not check&
be ruin of the empire. (Cheers.) Thebut this he must say, that
.he
s Mr. O'Connell would not complain of his ine ,e
scended"r.
hthis deep and solemn subjetchtatwwitlei greater levity
g_ t ; for when we pronounce
ae4 polio
stency. He may be assured that the high-min H 8,,,, 3i7. of the Union, see pronounce that we are doubtful of
ed the "no popery" cry in all its fury are not 1°- /1.1131ty of the empire.
by all the cry which has raised a repeal of the
History will do the Whigs justice: for the HARVEY
whatcomplainedthpalatnAslitnhiesytehrsadhaind notea tceoten:
ti___ to inform the house
enounced power and place, without obtaining in :_9, for the redress of the grievances of Ireland.—They
award of a fleeting popularity. (Cheers.) lor
eaumehsowever, to recognise by the silenc ad eloquence
"I'tutl
y retired from public life,' because they
pet they the fetters from their Catholic brethren. •. as powerful as words—the oxlips oafletehfe
the con-
intended to place Ireland out of p
gent `field (eta
refore, which the learned member for Dublin ier:f,
s excite against Earl Grey's government, _
is
agaalai,iirds to call upon the House
.Of Commons to declaim_
hn
ae
nd
moment compared with that which Earl Gt4ritaS,:.l7,eiltime'(",ooo of our
con-subjects on the mere ground
ithstood in order to place the learned or 0 a
t'-'Oll confidence
thisin t h etm.
nSyucehthceornhaddeninci
ne
is. (Loud cheers.) They were not dee:Jeri,ishteratlans.-119111oirneclti
of the house had been taken up in discussing the
•om making the learned gentleman not less ~,ts and demerits of Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Stanley.—Now,
ijecta he may be assured they will never sulil'
~t had the house to do with either the merits or the demerits
(Deafening cheers, which lasted at least a those aentlemen except so far as they displayed themselves
resentative of a numerous and flourishing , sae various measures which they respectively brought fo.r-
am s Ts
"to advice his Majesty on a certain Wej tts , ir one of tent, t
were outreoftoffi.
would
and the
Lirs concerning ' the state and defence of his 'l'it! 011 t of parliament, the
.grievances of I hnd 'ould still
'as prepared to vote for the address which
ot'assts, and would still require a remedy at their hands.—He
.to preserve inviolate a union on which de e aatsl against being considered in favour of the Repeal of
,ng of the empire. (Cheers.) : union though he voted for the amendment. He would
sve lira Su 0
(L said there was a practical antithesis, amour
In, in the course pursued by Mr. Macaulay. had s support to the amendment, because he saw nothing in
hilt, been advanced by government or in the measurees of
ito a most elaborate discussion on the union . resi.!-,
()they spoke, but concealed henefitrstasnd und' guised on-
isat a cabinetls wAo
unpremeditated, he supports an address w Ile saw nothing but theef afraid the extinction of all argument, puts an end of their own work, and w syere (sposed.to resort
s Ireland dumb, and claps a padlock on he 0 any measures, however hard, to maintain the views they
n never stop the throbbings of her big andt:l4o:.:..u.ok
jooa is.
What a strange proceeding on the part Lord LIN RUSSELL said, he considered the opposition
Leeds,—to discuss she. question himself, and ,
.11heiceell Was. ,made to 'the Address, and the remarks .upon the
is the right to entertain it,—to recommend
eae,3Which came from many members as very unfair, and as
le Habeas Corpus Act, in order to commit ' ails:hat the from a distorted view of the, case. lie contended
and to incarceration, while he himself wantee or,. disposition to give the country the full benefit of Re-
a so wide a field of discursive expatiation' ta Y'aa Manifest from the speech; but. the details of the
Mr. Macaulay had exhibited the advantages sat in one general discus-
• a--"Ls.....measures could not be mixed up
ministry who
idence, and of having a majority of Engaisb, erei: _ was it too much. to ask, that if they had a
•whelm a majority of the Irish' members e. confessed) favourable to Reform, y
th'e should have confi-
mmons. lie was prompt to recognise theshould till Tues-
'ace in them for a very few days—that they
', who had always Proved himself a d„-ased ay. next, when probably they would hear the explanation and
eselopment of the measures intended by government? He
• .aintained the absolute necessity of 'giving the Executive ad-
tional pciwer, in order to put the law into operation in Ireland;
and quoted some passages from Mr. O'Connell's late address
t° the people of that country, to prove the frequency of the
.. est dreauful outragWas it too much, when scenes like
these were of every-day ocenrrence, that the house should
Pledge itself to assist in restoring order to a country so circum-
stanced? But there were other circumstances which urged
2144 a course on the attention of parliament. The house was
asiaare of the existence of that feel iri Ireland, which Mr.
,"'Connell so well knew—the feeling out of which arose the
(est tendered to so many candidates at the late election—the
test which threw Lord Killeen out of a seat in that house,
bieh he in every respect so well deserved to occupy.
asthe Repeal of the Union was the test to which he referred.
was that subject, so much dwelt upon by Mr. O'Connell,
byits adv as hocat eld
spin
the as every
English P thing
arliament. in Ireland,
When such obbut abandoned -
Jects were known to be in contemplation, was it too much to
call on Parliament to give all the power it could bestow to pre-
vent such a dismemberment of the united kingdom ? The first
act of the Restoration Parliament in 1688, suspended the Hateus
.Corpus Act to prevent the separation of the kingdom—was the
question less important now when an attempt was made to
separate the two countries, to confiscate all English property in
Ireland, to overturn the Protestant government of that country,
aod to substitute in its place some kind of government or par-
liansent in which the hon. and learned member for Dublin
and several of " no,
vsould become the leader or ehief—(loud cries of " hear, hear,"
no")—and in which, from his talents, he
mild no doubt play a very conspicuous part, but, let him add,
we which it woulaase impossible to advance one step without in-.
velving the two countries in a war that could end only in the
destruction of one or the other, and in the.weakening of each
to° such a degree as, to involve the final ruiu of both ? Meat-)
It was therefore that he called on parliament to declare the Permanence of .the union.
aMr. ENVART said that he should hesitate in the vote he was
tto give, if he had-not the assurance of his Majesty's mi-
ers that strong remedial measures would accompany coer-
cive legislatiori for Ireland. When he heard the noble lord
(sklthorp) state- this., his coufidence. in the policy of the ministry
swag tunabated. What were .coercive enactments, unsupported
"Y the feelings and the confidence of the country in which they
Were to be carried into execution ? In such case force was not
Il'ovver ; you might gain a battle, .but you could not maintain a
sstickliass-, the defeat of the vanquished. was not subjugation. He
ssis'at. wart) was not only. satisfied of this truth : -he thought
'ase that allaurther change shouldsbe a change in peinciple, not
ore detail only. You, cannot maintain the religious ascendancy
t-,.: a small inority against the deckled majority of the coml-
.-Y. (Hear hear.) He recollected well, that when the catholic
' relief ,bill eras passed, some shallow politicians told them that it
*would. be a final measure. lie never could consider it a final
sinteasure, while the principle of religious predominance continued
sa prevail; and he. must do the old-tory members the justice to
4.84 Y, that they maintained that, if you went so far, you must go
further. So-thad happened' so it would always happen, when
the amendedlonlY in detail, and left the principle, which was
`"s teal source -of evil,. unaltered and unredressect. . There were
t Mattersn ters
shor • r. Re 'wa moment in the speech to which he would
s happy to infer, from the allusion to the
"aaettfeof gseat
East.lYndia
Company's charter, that extension would be given
ta our eastern commerce. He was sure that the least which

:re to be compelled to return its elementary principles to
of its practical benefits? What mot be the principles—
ust be .the prudence and discretion of any man, who
contend that, because he had opposed a measure thirty
kt ago, and had subsequently found that the empire was
d by it, he was therefore to be bound by his former
'us; he was not to reap the benefits of experience; he was
'ak the connection which he had formed; he was to dis-
ev,ery link of it, and to destroy the noble fabric whicad
Led ornament and value from the lapse of time ?—h had
ornam and value from the lapse of time ?—He
"a, that it was the duty of Parliament to attend to the
;'ll of a. free country, when it was made manifest. Among
!mons which ought to influence the Legislature of a free
PY, that general opinion was the chief. But, in utterin,g
Pgitnent, did he mean to assert that the wretch who traded
„chief—the incendiary who
,gloated on destruction—the
Ivllo made the defenceless his prey—the monster who
' fl'cugh all the bonds of society—who called good evil,
itl'd4 good—who planted his footsteps in blood, and signal-
Path by th
to e ruin and desolation which he spread around
4e mean assert that the feelings of such a man were
respected?—and was he to be told, when he wished to
Vie, sanguinary atrocities of such ruffians, that it was
Lille that he could be a friend to Ireland—that it was im-
th:tcr any man who voted for these strong measures to feel
wIQ yrongs of Ireland? 'there might he gentlemen
' not give him credit for feeling for the wrongs of
seu°,liutry; but if this sole reason for refusing to give
r, 11 credit was his vote in favour of such measures,
41,1 Shelter himself under the authority of a great and
4 Irish patriot, who had not scrupled to support enact-
V violence when the emergency seemed to require them.
3`ll.ant quoted the declaration of Mr. Grattan„that he
~r te d measures of temporary coercion in order to obtain a
goof quiet for the application of permanent remedies to
atinued grievances. The subjects of Tithes and Church
.r44l' Mr. Grant said, would soon be brought under conside-
i 13r Parliament. Into those projects, however, he would
r`e'ell enter, for his wish was to advert solely to the question
ell „fiDlen). Mr. Bulwer had attributed all the discontent
oe'L'Ar prevailed in Ireland to the conduct of a single mem-
ts,,,`te tabinet. Now, he for one would not accept of such
14 'loas compliment. Ile frankly avowed himself to have
tvev"' Party to all the measures adopted by Mr. Stanley; and,
tomt great the reluctance might be with which he approach-
zeeasures of coercion, yet he was prepared to contend, that
dureasion required, and necessity called for them, it was
lilt, Y 01 Government, not only to those who were oppressed,
s of;4, and assassinated, but also to those who were the
ld. delusion, to apply, them with a firm and unshrinking
Ire lie contended that a return to the old mode of govern-
revs previous to the Union would not remedy. any of her
e patil,ees• The old Irish Parliament had been the instrument,
al. der, the slave of every base and tyrannical auministra.-

'NELL said—" No, no."
continued—At all events he was so at the (I
lion. Charles Grey opposed the union. It,
ails that would result from it, and almost 0
evils which are
.passing before our eyes.,'
Limed from a speech of Earl Grey, deliver
.e stronglycondemnatory of the pending in
and contrasted it with the language of the
it does that speech recommend ? An enti
1 reasoning on the subject. It enjoins silen
shall vou not have repeal, but you shall u
The "Habeas Corpus Act is to be suspc
of British liberty are to be trampled under
e is to be strengthened; the sceptre is to be
at was carried by corruption is to be secu
iy, more, the boast of Britons, the pride ~i
he ornament and the prop of the constituti
I valuable and dear, the trial by jury, is tcV
l cheers.) Good God ! is it Lord Grey, ju,,sti,
aph of reform, who recommends this ? tii
must be, some superior spirit of dominau
ho exercises a fatal ascenctancy, and is the
id. Earl Grey had declared misgovernin
.ad's evils, which were made the pretext thr,
her the very semblance of liberty. Is no
one Irishman in the government of Ire
ber of this house representing a place in Ir '
it of the government? Not one. Not a 5
teen the people and their rulers. Look e 1
before a committee of the house, acknowl
If Ireland. How did he defend himself Yji
answer why there were twenty-six stipeej,
I all Protestant? How two chief judges S
i .are above his influence ? and why he ri
my ? He asserted that the crown had set
lies, and empanelled three juries, with tik
ne, and eleven Protestants in each of the
ies of " Hear.") Is this consistent vv
3sed by Lord Brougham, when he presented;
rish Catholics, detailing enormities of this
iounced these detestable practices ? C 3
and is in combustion ? The speech depre';
outset, in Portugal. Englishmen, do 11°`"
:hies to your allies. We are your countil,
[ions as any which can be shed upon a air
e us in the name of justice, of humaniq,
s which you once conferred upon us, by a,
ss of our insupportable grievances, front'
rse than civil, and to which the hoarded Sc,
the rancours of religious hatred, will low
ible contribution. (Cheers.)
GRANT very much admired Mr. Sheirgo
dexterity still more. He had alluded t
h at the outset of his own, but had care.
;rappling with its arguments. The Ve
was the Repeal of the Union with Ire
?osite were anxious to deviate from it, it
to cope with the arguments of the menlir';
gard to the speech delivered thirty Yeabg,
id any man suppose that a measure inig,
years ago, when it was only in conteral",
as justly eulogized thirty years after;
had given proof of its beneficial tendc,j
ernment—what was all the constitutiou':
an even had been successfully acconli