The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-09-08 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.-THURSDAY.

The Earl of GLENGALL presented a petition from the pro-
prietors of Covent-garden Theatre against the music and danc-
ing bill.
Lord littouG RAM said he never would recognize a monopoly
unless established by act of parliament. He advocated the bill
because he considered there was too little amusement of this
kind for the people, and because lie wished to give them ever3i,
facility of obtaining rational amusement.
Lord LYNDHURST _presented a petition relative to the rrish
church bill, from whence did not transpire. The petition, alter
an animated.conversation, in which Viscount Melbourne, the
Duke of Wellington, the Marquis of Lansdowne, the Earl of
Roden, the Earl of Wicklow, Lord Brougham, Lord Farnham,
Lord Hatherton, the Earl of Winchilsea, and Lord Plunket
took part, was laid upon the table.

MUNICIPAL CORPO-RATION3 DILL

Lord J. Russell brought up the municipal corporations bill
and a message from the commons, requesting a conference with
their lordships on the subject of the amendments which they
hod made on their lordships' amendments to the bill.
Viscount MELBOURNE moved that their lordships should agree
to the conference, and appoint the same to be held presently in
the Committee-room No. 5.

The motion was agreed to, and the commons having again
appeared at the bar,
Lord DENMAN informed tbem that their lordships bad agreed
to the conference.
Viscount MELBOURNE then proposed certain peers, whom he
named, and amongst.whom were the Duke of Wellington, Lord
Lyndhurst, and Lord Brougham.
The Duke of WELLINGTON rose, and begged to be excused
from serving on the conference.
Loid LYNDHURSIC did the same.

Lord HOLLAND. said it appeared to him to be a singular dr.
camstance that those noble lords who had moved the amend-
ments to the bill in the committee of that house should decline
serving on. the conference. It seemed to be contrary to the
usual course of proceeding.
Lord BROUGHAM thought. that the noble lords were perfectly
at liberty to decline taking anv part in the conference. His
noble friend should recollect that the question had not beenput.
If the house bad decided that they should act as managers, he
thought they could not he excused.
The Duke of Wellington and Lord Lyndhurst requested the
clerk to erase their natnes from the proposed list.
Lord BROUGH A m.—DO the same by me.
On the motion of Viseount MELBOURNE, the following peers
were appointed the managers of the conference on the part of
the lords : —The Lord President of the Council, the Lord Privy
Seal, the Duke -of Richmond, the Earl of Shaftesbury, the
Bishop of Bristol, Lord Auckland, Viscount Melbourne, Lord
Hat herton.

. .
:illftMelegem' proceeded' tb the conference, and en their re-
turn the Lord-President presented the amendments which the
commons had made on their lordships' amendments to the bill,
with their reasons for the same, which were ordered to be
printed.
On the motion of Viscount Illut.uoraNE, the commons' amend
meats were ordered to he taken into consideration to-morrow.
Loid BROUGHAM laid upon the table a bill for amending the
law of marriage and divorce with respect to Scotland;.which he
proposed should be. read a first time and printed, in order that.
the country might become. acquainted with its provisions by
next session, when he would eudeaYour to carry it through
parliament.
The Earl of ABERDEEN and Lord LyNDHURST severally ex-
pressed their thanks to the noble and learned lord fOr having
directed,his attention to this important subject.
The bill was read.a first time and ordered to be printed.
IbIpiIISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL.
Lord BliouGHAta, ou presenting •a petition in favour of the
bill for abolishing imprisonment for debt, took occasion to cor-
rect an error into which a noble lord had fallen last night. A
noble lord (Lord Fitzgerald) had stated that the bill to which
the petition, referred was postponed to next session at his insti-
gation. He did not suggest the postponement of the bill, but
when it was suggested %y others he at once acceded to it, be-
cause it was absurd to think of passing a bill for altering the
whole law of debtor and creditor on the 28th of August. It
would be better to say that the House of Lords shall not exist at
all than to say that they should not have time to consider the
bills which were sent up to them. (Hear.)
Lord FiTZGERALD admitted that his statement last night was
erroneous as respected the noble and learned lord, but the mis-
take did not invalidate his proposition, which was, that bills of
importance had been postponed by noble lords opposite, and
that opposition peers were not the only -persons at whose in-
stance postponements had been made in that house.
Lord BROUGHAM observed that the learned gentleman who
drew the bill in question admitted it to be impossible to proceed
with it this session.
Lord LYNDiIuRST said that the learned gentleman could
not',
be a man of common sense if lie had made use of the language ascribed to him on this subject, and therefore he supposes that
there was souse mistake on the part of the reporter.
•EDucATION.—IRELAND.
The Earl of Ilou4N rose to put a question to the noble mar-
quis (Lansdowne) on a subject in which he knew the noble
lord to take an interest. In March last he called for informa-
tion with respect' to the working of the new system of education
in Ireland, and moved for ten returns with a view to obtain it.
The noble marquis appeared to admit the propriety of having
all the information that could be procured on the.table, and an
order was made for those returns on. the 10th of March. From
that day to this only four of the required documents, and those
not the most important, had been produced ; it was clear that
there was some irregularity or neglect on the pelt of the persons
who were bound to make the returns. He now asked the noble
marquis whether he could give any reason why those •returns
had been so long withheld?
The Marquis of LANSDowNE had the satisfaction to state,
that having used every exertion for the purpose, he was now
enabled to lay on the table all the information required by the
noble earl, with.sauly a single exception, as respected one re-
turn, which .it was not iu the poiv,r of the government to pro-
/cure. The return in question was a statement of the propor-.
don ofprotestant and catholic children who attended the schools
placed under the control of the Board of Education. On that
subject the commissioners declared it to be wholly out of their
power to make an.autlientic return, because, in consequence of
the rcnotistrAmTNef prAte.slatit clergymen and other inerahera
of the establishment, thq.liadiliscontinuerthe practiCe ordis;-
tingtiishing between the protestant and catholic children who
attended their; schools. , .
woaxtiousu PROPERTY BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDO%VNE, in moving the second reading
of a bill to facilitate the conveyance of workhouses, stated that
the object of the measure was to promote the arrangements
connected with the establishment of workhouses, which- formed
so important,a part of the act passed last year for the amend-
ment of the poor laws. The bill would facilitate the sale and con-
veyance of workhouses or buildings intended to be used for that
purpose, and would impose the smallest possible expense on the
operatiOn. In a great many instances buildings could not be
purchased in consequence of the want of a corporate body as a
party to the conveyance. This measure provided for that case
by incorporating the gnardians of the poor. Where unions
were created, parishes would be enabled to sell their workhouses
to defray the expenses of united workhouses. His lordship
took that opportunity of entering on some details showing the
successful operation of the poor law bill.
The bill was read a second time.
The charities' commissioners bill passed through committee,
and was reported without amendment: to be read a second time
on Friday.
The bills on the table were forwarded a stage, and the house
adjourned at a quarter to nine o'clock.

HAWSE OF COMMONS.---THURSDAY.
The Speaker` the chair at a quarter to four o'clock.
Mr. RORI,I3ON presented a petition from WO merchants,
traders, and inhabitants of Mont-real, against any alteration in
the timber duties, and a similar petition from a number of mer-
chants in the city connected with the trade to Canada. The
hon. member proceeded to say, that he hoped the evidence taken
before the committee on, the timber trade would be printed, as
it then would he seen that the report of that committee was•
inconsistent with the evidence they had heard. It was said, to
be sure, by political economists and theorists of that school,
that if the timber duties were taken off, our manufactures would
be taken in exchange.for their timber by the northern posers
of Europe. Ile was ready
.to say that he would not object to an
alteration of the duties, if foreign powers would enter into re-
ciprocal engagements to that effect. He was quite ceitain,
however, that they would not take a shilling's worth of our
manufactures in exchange. The only effect of such a measure
would be the destruction of our colonies in America, and the
total ruin of our British trade there, while foreigners and foreign'
shipowners would alone receive any benefit that might arise
from it.' It was well known that select committees of that house
were perfect farces. They were arrays appointed by the go-
vernment in such a manner as to insure a report from them
conformable to the views of tila government on the subject re-
ferred to them .for consideration. Though in this case the
greater portion of the evidence iris against an alteration in the
duties, the committee reported .11 fatour of such alteration.
The petition was laid I.:pon the table.

THE LIVERPOO

BUSINESS I THE HOP SE OF LORDS,

The -ATT 0 ItN Y-GE;lsita t. brought up the report of the select
committee appointed try the house to search the journals of the
tiouse of Lords relativelo any proceedings which might have
token place.there upon the administration of wills bill, sent up
from. this house in the Course of the present session. The report
stated that these hills had been read -a second time 'by
,their
lordships on the .221 of June, and then referre.4l to a select com-
mittee' since .which time no further, proceedings'appeared ,to
have been taken.

Dr. LUSHINGrON said he felt bound to make a few remarks
on the subject of the present repOrt. The two bills in question
were the result of the report of a select committee of the House
of Commons, of which the late Lord Chief Justice for Med a
part. They had been introduced by the Attorney-General,
thoroughly discussed by the house, and then referred to a select
committee up stairs; in fact, they received at the hands of that
house every consideration which important measures of the
kind, tending to remedy some of the greatest grievances which
the present state of the law inflicted upon thepuhlic, demanded.
These bills, so considered, had been sent up to the House of
Lords on the 3d of June last, where, on the 22d of that month,
it appeared they were read a second time, and then referred to
a select committee. It was now the 3d of September. The
journals of the House of Lords had been searched, and no fur-
ther notice appeared to have been taken by their lurdships of
the matter. If proceedings of this kind were, he of frequent
occurrence on the part of the upper house he should feel that
the House of Commons wouki not be doing their duty if they
did not adept every constitutional measure in their power to
remedy the evil. If this had been an isolated case he (Dr.
Lushington) might have been inclined to let it pass unnoticed,
hilt being as it was but one out of the numerous instances in
which measures of the greatest public importance were either
neglected or rejected by the other house, be felt bound to express
his indignation at such a course of proceeding.
Sir E. KNATCHBUI.I. admitted that the subject of the bills in
question was one of great public importance, but he could not
agree with the hon. and learned member in believing that it was
with any intention to neglect or reject the measures of this
house, on the part of the House of Lords, that further progress
had not been made by their lordships in these two bills. He
believed, on the contrary, that the delay had in a great measure,
if not entirely, been an unavoidable one, being caused by the
absence from town of several learned individuals, whose services
would have been of the highest consequence in the inquiries
ordered to be made. It appeared that the bills had been refer-
red to a select committee on the 22d of June, and it was
precisely since that period that the noble and learned indi-
viduals to whom he referred had been absent on circuit. He
had no doubt, if these circumstances had not intervened, the
bills in question would have been proceeded with • and, at least,
there was one noble individual in their lordship's!' house who,
being supposed to be particularlv friendly, to these measures
(we presume the right honourable gentleman alluded to 'Lord
Brougham,) would no doubt, if he saw fit opportunity,. have
pressed those measures forward, and done his best to prevent
any unnecessary delay. In conclusion, he would only observe
that he had no doubt that, in the course of the next session, the
House of Lords would themselves take up these bille,:and all
the, necessary information having been already collected on the
subject of them, no delay would occur in rendering them the
law of the land.

The A rTORNEY-GANERA t. begged to explain that he meant
to advance no complaint whatever against the House of Lords
on account of their proceedings on these hills. He hoped even
that the report of the select committee being once made to their
lordships, the bills its question might pass into law before the
Close of the present session.
The report was then laid on the table.
STRICTURES ON THE HOUSE OF. LORDS.

On the order of the day for- the third reading of the militia
pay bill being moved,
Mr: H A Was rose and begged to call the attention of the house
to some expressions which had fallen from a noble lord
another place respecting the conduct of that house in passing
the bill for the abolition of imprisonment fbr debt. The noble
loid to whim he referred had stated on the occasion in question
that this bill had been smuggled through the House of Com-
mons. Now, as he (Mr. Hawes) was one +of the members of
this house whose names were attached to thci back of that bill
he begged to declare—
The SPEAKER here interfered, and said that if it was the hon.
member's intention, in what he was about to say, to refer to
some particular expressions which had fallen from a noble
individual in another house, such a proceeding would be one
quite irregular in itself, and one quite contrary to the rules of
this house,

After a short discussion the bill was read a third time and
passed.

STOPPING THE SUPPLIES-APPROPRIATION ACT.

• •The CH ASicI.LOR of the ExcHEQUER moved the order of the
day for the third reading of the consolidated fuud (appropria-
tion) bill.
Mr. HUME said he hoped his right hon. friend would not pro-
ceed,with this bill to-day. The house had had no reason yet to
be satisfied with the proceedings of the other house; and he,
therefore, hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not de-
prive the house of the last opportunity it would have this session,
of a vote on the subject of supply, to discuss whatever might be-
come necessary or prudent, in consequence of whatever might
be the course adopted by the upper house. on the subject .of the
alterations which they had made iu the corporation reform bill.
He begged the Chancellor of the Exchequer to defer this order
of the day till to-morrow, or rather, as an hon, friend near him
said, till Monday, in order to leave the house time.to see what
the result' of their lordships' deliberations might be on the sub-
ject of the altered bill which had been sent up to thein.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he must certainly
disagree From 'the proposal made by the hon. member, and
would ask the house to read this bill a third time at once. The
hon. member said that his only reason for wishing to postpone
this proceeding was in order to leave the house an opportunity
of discussing the condition in which the bill for the regulation
of municipal corporation might be returned to them from the
House of Lords. Now, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
.for One, hoped that this bill would .not return to them at all, he
earnestly hoped and believed that the bill would not come back
to this house at all, but that the II owe of Lords would agree to
the bill which had been sent up to them, and concede to the. al-
terations which this house tad takenlupou it to make in titeir
lordships' amendments on this measure. (Fleas.) -Coder.
.these circumstances,if any honourable
bill-
in this house,
on the very evening on which this' bill- was sent up fur their
lordships' consideration, were to pass a motion or take part in a
proceeding like that recommended by the hon. member for Mid-
dlesex, would not.such a proceeding imply a fear or feeling. of
distrust on the part of this house, as to the shape in which their
lordships would return the corporations bill, it they did return
it at all? (Hear, hear.) Now, in his opinion, there was uo
course which this house could adopt which would be mare cal-
culated to spread unnecessary alarm in the minds of all those
who were friendly to the bill than this proposal of the hon.
member for Middlesex. '(Hear.) Let the Egon; :member but
console himself with this reflection, and he would see that no
'necessity whatever existed for postponing the order of the day
for the third reading of the appropriation .act, even for the pur-
poses for which he desired to do so. If the corporations bill did
return to this house, the house would then have a legitimate and
the best possible opportunity of discussing the amendments of
the House of Lords pfif the bill passed, and therefore did not
return to this house, there would be no such occasion as the
hon. member for Middlesex contemplated for any discussion of
the kind he wished to raise. Besides this, he would just re-
mark that, by acceding to the wishes of the hon. member he
should be entailing another week upon the session, as the bill
must necessarily go through its regular stages in the other house
before it could pass. • Under these circumstances he would en-
treat his hon. friend to withdraw his motion.
Mr. O'CONNELL said he hoped his hon. friend would comply
with the request of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. No rea-
sonable advantage could possibly be gained by postponing this
appropriation bill. . As to stopping the supplies, every one knew
that was out of the question; the supplies had already been
voted seriatim by the house, and the bill before them only reca-
pitulated those votes in the precise terms in which they had
been agreed to. (Hear, hear.) No one could pretend that, in
passing these votes, the house intended to reserve to any
ultimate right of stopping; them again. )(Hear, hear.) But
there were many other reasons why the house should not put eff
passing this bill until after the House of Lords had passed the
corporations bill. In the first place it mould be proceeding
with much better temper—(hear, hear)—and if he was not
afraid that his supporting this bill might be used as an argument
against it iu anotherplace. (Continued cries of " Hear, hear,"
and loud laughter, in which the latter part of the hon. and
learned member's observations were lost.) The hon. member
concluded by observing that they were come to a very important
crisis, and it must be decided, not perhaps in this session but in
the next, whether any measure of importance which was passed
in that house, relating to one part of the kingdom at least,
namely, Ireland, was to be checked in the other house, not upon
any ground of merit or demerit, but upon grounds too futile to
be entitled to notice. Let the House of Commons, therefore,
do their duty in the present case, in order that no fault might
be laid to their door. He was glad to observe the manly con-
duct of the government throughout the present session, and he.
hoped they would not relax in the good resolution which they
bad espoused.
cu
Lordhip y eab jci
corporations
Olni
Ni•
ne si
bdHcssttee:i
Ltr
ah
These
oeft
i,reyd
sreasons
ue
sdmer auawnn
ersi inter ee
edwn ceat oernewdt the
petgharhset:eheudedse:Lotlo
d
a committee was appointed to manage the conference.
The other business before the house was proceeding, when, on
the motion of an hon. member, the house was counted out.

HOUSE OF 1.0113:51.--F RID AY:
LOVL • F-A-DN'HAW-Dreiet) ted.. _sevet.l petitions from Ireland,,
ag.tinst the Irish church bill. •
••.••••
Lord BRotGlt.nnt called the attention of the house to certaia
returns respecting proceedings in the Court of Chancery, ex-
planatory- of the expenses saved to-suitcts by the working of
the chancery reform bill of last session. The noble lord gave
notice, after eulogising the labou'rs of the law commissioners, that
he would early in the next session move a resolution sanctioning
the decisions the commissioners hod come to or the suggestiuus
which they had thrown out.

DUBLIN POLIi.E RILL.
On the motion of Viscount DUNCANNON that this bill be now
committed,
Lord FARNHAM moved that it be c,,nunitted this day three
months.
The amendment was agreed to without a division, and the bill
was consequently lost. •
The charities commissioners bill was read a third time and
passed.
Lord BROUGHAM moved that the report on the witnesses' in-
demnity bill be now received. To this motion an amendment
wac moved and carried without a division, that it be received this
day three months, and the bill was consequently lost.
The tithe instalment suspension bill (Ireland) was read a
first time.