The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-06-23 00:00:00

3kiTiNG dF THE

Tie following
. ~

JNIMITTt

COMIT•OP ivitt

..,x of the Dock
—..,,..iuers were present at the weekly meet- I
(Before Charles Phillips, Esq., Commissioner.)
tarclaY Rol t,ommittee yesterday :—Messrs. Horsfall, -IN RE SOTHERN.—This bankrupt, who carried on business
alt)—id'eßramiet;tolinoZ ASitakiitah;
TMoibdidnl,etz Evans,
mon Itydtehne, at St. Elelen's, came up this day to pass his last examination.
o're:icieed7f Mr. Sands, Mr. HORSFALL, the deputy chairman, He was supported by Mr. Bardswell, (of the firm of Messrs.
Littledale. and Bardswell ;) and Mr. James, the barrister,
The
cIMIEKS FOR THE ALBERT WARFHOOSEQ appeared on the part of the assignees. The bankrupt had
iv!: t_heolala put in an amended balance sheet;- and
tjictiirnieed,,,,(2.
ars
t,o.orpien.iAtiotiltrelleteel(fAilie;rttOtenwnadireheisoPua part o f the 'S
nb -co ;in i ttee of
Work he COMMISSIONER said he had enquired of the official
T
assignee,Mr. Follett, whether there was anything in the
rgest quantity, the best sort had been, received for supplying
._rrtl,haeadtentdheerloawdoepatteidniwcr amended balance sheet which would render necessary a post-
ponement of the examination. Mr. Follett had informed•
that there was not ; and as there was nothing in it requiring
of Works th... 4 • —, it was the duty of the court to proceed with the
examination. It was possible, however, that something
might occur in the course of the examination which might
render an amendment necessary.
Mr. FottErr said the bankrupt had furnished no books in
which the credit accounts could in any way be traced.
The COMMISSIONER observed that was not, at present, a
question for the court. It would be a question when the
bankrupt applied fOrhis certfiicate whether he had furnished
proper documents and books. It would then be an ingre-
dient in the case.
Mr. JAMES submitted that it was not merely when a party
applied for his certificate, but that it was a very important
ingredient in passing his last examination, because, unless
he had furnished all books, papers, and documents, he could

ir -•... Lneretore recommended that the
hieh
was to tsrs. Samuel and James Holme be accepted,
The tendeor Supply
h eann ya
crepa rtedi t.y less than ten millions.

1 merle

t, 1e SECRETARY read a letter from the Elder Brethren of
, trinity douse, which stated that they had had under
heir consideration the resolution of the Dock Committee in
ertaluation to the request of the Elder Brethren, that they would
0,
.s.e a floating beacon to be placed on the north-west end
1 the West Moyle Bank. The Elder Brethren could not
verleur in the opinion entertained by the Dock Committee of
'2,,',,,,tertt advantage this proposed buoy would be to vessels
. lati.e.t; the River Dee, because they considered that its
;;Ilef utility would be to vessels proceeding to Liverpool, and,
therefore, the charge ought to be met by the Dock Trustees ;
ll!ezertheless, as the situation appeared to be beyond the
Li
0 of the port, the Elder Brethren, acting upon their ac-
:_iBmt
env principle in applications of this nature, were
.ready
r e e the wiAes of the Trustees, and they had, accordingly,
fern: re 71 a sufficient buoy to be placed in the situation re-
The
C1)144, (I,IA. mat AN said this letter was satisfactory to the
Mee; and it was ordered to be entered on the books.

NEW BUOY

not pass

Tile COMMISSIONER thought they were anticipating a
little. Was it not an enquiry for the decision of the court
when the bankrupt asked to pass, after the whole was closed?
Then would be the proper time to take the objection.
Mr. BARDSWELL said, if the balance sheet contained false
items there might be something in the objection, but it stated
facts, and surely no difficulty was to be raised now.
The COMMISSIONER observed that instances had occurred
to him, strange to say, in which the bankrupt had kept no
books.

CLAIM FOR ALLEGED DAMAGE.
letTtehe owner of the American ship Arnold, of Boston, in a
done
rtfrom that city, claimed compensation for some damage
, o that ship whilst she was in the Queen's Dock Basin,
itisirile was proceeding to the Graving Dock, on the 23rd of
press4er ,last- If the committee refused, the writer ex-
,r, ueterrnination to bring an action against them.
the e CtlAtaltAN said the claim had been investigated at
r 4ritn.
Beiltaktiwllats!tzsowlthout foundation, it was refused.
under these circumstances, would
ecenlroend the owner to lose no time in bringing his action.

Mr. JAMES mentioned that he had not seen the balance
sheet till that moment.
Mr. BARDSWELL replied that it had been filed ten days.
Mr. JAMES then said that on the former meeting the
examination of the bankrupt was adjourned for the purpose of
laying before the court an account of his debts, but he had
given in no account of debts whatever. All that he (Mr.
James) had found in the balance sheet was " debts due to the
bankrupt from the Ist of July, 1842, to the 12th of March,
1843," which was just as before.
Mr. BARDSWELL.—No, no.
Mr. JAMES, in continuation, said the bankrupt com-
menced business on the Ist of July, 1842, and the balance
sheet professed to be an account of all his estate in trade;
consequently all the matters mentioned in it must have oc-
curred between the Ist of July, 1842, and the 12th of March,
1843, the date of the bankruptcy. The sum of £BOO was, in the
last balance sheet, placed against the none of Henry John-
son ; now it was increased to £990. Was it not important
that there should appear upon the sheet some explanation
whereby this statement might be verified or otherwise ?
There was an utter absence of any account of the time when
this debt accrued to the bankrupt : it might have been on
the Ist of July or the 11th of March. the day before the
bankruptcy. On the very day before the bankruptcy John-
son might, for aught that appeared to the contrary, have
received this £990 which belonged to the creditors. The
only entry relating to it was, that it was secured by a trans-
fer of Johnson's interest in soma property, and a warrant of
attorney for £l,OOO, upon which judgment had been entered.
He submitted that, with the balance sheet in this state, the
bankrupt ought to be sent back.
The COMMISSIONER said, he could not compel a bankrupt
to put in a better unless he chose, but the circumstance would
be matter for consideration by and bye.
Mr. JAMES contended that if omissions like this were
allowed to pass without comment a great loophole would be
opened for fraud not only upon creditors but upon the court.
A bankrupt was required to file his balance-sheet for the
purpose of giving the creditors every information, to enable
then: to ascertain whether the accounts were correct or other-
wise. It was monstrous to suppose that this bankrupt, a
young man with all his faculties about him, and in the full
vigour of life, should not be able to arrive at some' more
accurate statement of his affairs, seeing that he had been in
business for only nine months. The sum of £990 had passed
from him to another person,—yet how or when was not
stated.
The COMMISSIONER said, the bankrupt might be examined
to see whether he had materials for furnishing a better ac-
count ; and if he had, the court would certainly send him
back without scruple, but if he bad not, the sending of hint
back would be like asking him to do an impossibility. There
was a good deal in what the learned counsel said ; it was,
indeed, surprising, at first sight, that, having been so re-
cently in business, and only from July to March, he should
not be able to explain it.
Mr. BARDSWELL thought if the accounts were gone into,
the items should be entered into also.
The COMMISSIONER thought so too ; but at the same time
it was very odd, that with such a considerable sum of money
involved there should be no books.
'rise bankrupt was then sworn, and examined by Mr.
JAMES.—He said, in answer to the questions proposed to
him, Mr. Henry Johnson, who appears as a debtor to my
estate, is a farmer, who resided at Bold, and the amount of
his debt is £990. It is for lent money. I lent him £350 on
the 11th of July, 1842, and £5OO upon the 21st of July. I
have also lent him several small sums, of which Mr. Follett
has the dates, but in how many different sums I cannot say.
The entries in the sixth page of the book, marked A (a
memorandum book) of these two sums having been lent were
made perhaps three months ago, and perhaps one month ago,
I cannot say exactly. Upon my oath they were made before
my first appearance before the Commissioner ; it was before
I filed my balance-sheet. When I made more entries I was
aware that I had lent Johnson more money than is contained
in them. I thought at that time I had lent him about £3OO

NIR. CIIALONER'S YARD.
The SURVI,VOR, to whom this subject had been referrea
at the last ine't.'
thefollowing report :
" hav
""g.
""
made
'yard. The whole is
fe . e viewed Mr. Chaloner s
at'itleiedtoliii,bY wood paling,close at the bottom and open
; but the e"
ttihtee.zt.b_!ence: whi
about twenty yards tl east fence, and close adjoining
cotton is warehoused within the yard.
erb.°,"lltiou7ever, is closely boarded inside of
a, ii I.'l. , 1 lisider that the cotton is. as
. secure from fire
22d
J005.,,` " oe HI a wooden shed.--JESSL HARTLEY,
Mr. Toil •
ix, .--Then brick walls would be of no service?
Imre. ~travvott.—l do not say that sir..
ntiteoenytallecfoltrM°oßE said the principle which he con-
not to be
was this, that these premises
ought
Estate was
to the warehousing of cotton. the . Dock
iit,unceild.oeitogf.ojrustice either to itself or the public, if it permitted
been be,o ri aPplication of these to continue, because t
a special object, to which they should be they had It they were turned to other purposes a very different
t(ioi ought to be required. This was clear from the fact that
atY 4 61411 proportion had been partitioned off for the recep.
amount c9tton, which gave Mr. Chaloner five times
the
colt',. ot tent that he paid for the whole concern.
:it,;anrtti,ee had ever contemplated that the yard would be let
year e"osing cotton, no one would have said that
been
ina were sufficient ; a much larger rent would have
committee,
It was the duty, therefore, of
the
hav
t'ii,t,,hernttdt:tiget 1
a orp'sa: rent, or to see something done to
i\i'ro on reinovebd, for it had no business there. • ,
siik4AtTzalN said. that Mt. Shand had at the last meeting
give notice Practicable course—if the rents were too small,
witthere ha t it would be increased. To say that because
itielitt
hiPlaptetied to be n anahogany in the port, the premises
be used fory other purpose, was ar9osition
the ti
ine:lupttlaeorairti:l:lr. Aikin) dissented from. Mr. Chaloner,
ofat
storitial,e he took the place, took it for the express purpose
logs
4, of which there was then a great quantityo tlle
, now there was none. In consequence toy
..t. ,ir itY of cotton, and the small number.ofenereehouses
eo " to tt, there was a desire to know where it could"a be ac.-
fricen4°,dmated ; and some, he understood, was going to hi
It oldwo' bet.' Stoith's) barn three or four miles off (Fulwood.)
you 1, worse than the dog in the manger to say, "because.n
.'.',e no touncwa t t in these sheds
nothing else ~ a‘ oY o put
Mr g •you shall put 1 art:uill jtaNtLEY-MoottE asked, if this were allowed, on what
the ?' CCUrnittee could cause him to desist the whole of
Nirr.e.,tnises with cotton?
by his
al'Il(N replied that Mr. Chaloner was not tied down,t
the tent with the committee, what he should puterii.
neeted w • had put planks, staves, °I. anything •cen •
. h !f• he
ofth if the his business, no notice would have been taktice.
the „e. con-
yard was too cheap let Mr. Chaloner have no
titre intention of the committee to raise it.
dition ~ kiIeLAY contended that ihere was no such_ con-
tosho,at: the agreeinent that Mr. Chaloner should put
mr: J,3' °WY ill the premises.
114... ~.,r1.01:r t,nentioned that this condition was expressed in
--4,4%.;enalorier
c 8 application.
triaho.._ littlaxiAN stated that the intention was to
applied
it to ''::_!,111, and nothing else. Mr. Chaloner had
i
the,_rtieuttier
Poroose—an exceedingly profitable at
aan
ji,reviir°sed, It would be only reasonable in lam to expec
..r.
~._ rent.
11'ti11...1-!AiteLaY.--sor'ut this was an accidental circumstance.
sw4eitivvmitx was satisfied that if the committee had b been
have let
enot
the
to be applied to general purposes, they would
Alr.
It le land to liiin unless there were to be brick walls.
faller, ‘,9l'nEN contended that as the mahogany trade had
h, wa°,o,,,‘ Mr. Chaloner must make his rent some way, and
jamice. Ple mode most open to him. He could not see the
Nlr of,
nY interference on the part of the committee.
right Btu't4MLEY-MoottE s• id the Mayor had just as muchci
to i? all the Town-hall swaith cotton as Mr. Chaloner had
mri,ese sheds.
over th obtai.--We are every day fires all
NV ht e tow!,
complaining' in bales and bales
The
ti,_y , and here we are putting
of
, 'l:he C. are sure to fret on fire!
iettiii, m'eltETAItY read the resolution of the committee for_
i.A.,,ugCst,le„l'lnd to Mr. challoner. It was dated the Ibth of
t it of in°,44. The letting was for seven years, at an annual
bi'lie;l ',4,• Per
square yard, and the sheds were to be ap-
e ei, ,i °ring " mahogany or such other woods as might
,_ --leg neees ''
, 'r. lin - sarv.
,
elear or 414'1%1\4001LE said nothing could be more
taittee oatisfactory than that. After that, if the com-
Mr. ,er":ase to allow this sort of thing let them.
-111 N said his objection was as to the danger of

more.
The examination then proceeded :—..
Will you then say how it happened, with the materials be-
fore you, that in your former balance-sheet you entered only
£BOO, when you now say it was £3OO more?—l could not
prove I had ever lent him more money.
When you lent the first sum of £350, did you make any
memorandum in any book, or on any paper ?—No.
Was any one present when the money was lent?— Yes.
Who I—My foreman, William Garbut.
'Was he the only person present ?—At the £350 he was.
Did Johnson give you any acknowledgement of the receipt
of that money ?—Yes.
What species of acknowledgement I—An I 0 U
Where was the money lent I—ln my house at St. Helen's.
What is become of the I 0 U so given?—lt was de-
stroyed when he gave me a bill for £l,OOO.
When was that ?—About the 22d of July ; lam not cer-
tain as to the date.
Was it before or after the £5OO were lent I—After.
Who was present when the £5OO were lent?—Mr. Pickard,
Mr. Slater, and William Garbut, my foreman.
Who is Mr. Pickard?—He used to be a timber merchant
in Liverpool.
What is become of him ?—He is in Liverpool at present.
In business ?—No.
Where is he to be met with ?—At Mrs. Stalker's, in a
street leading out of Pitt-street.
Who is Mr. Slater ?—I believe his father keeps a saw-mill
in Liverpool ; he is a friend of Mr. Pickard.
Do you know where is he to be met with ?—No.
Where was the £5OO lent ?—At my house in St. Helen's
Did he give you any acknowledgement for the £5OO ?
An I 0 U.
What became of that?—Mr. Follett has it.
At the time that the bill for the £l,OOO was given, had you
lent to Johnson the whole of the money for which he is now
a debtor ?—Yes.
How came the I 0 U for the sum of £5OO not to be given
up ?—I could not find it at the time.
Where was the bill for £l,OOO given ? It was given at an
attorney's office in Dale-street, whose name I don't remem-
ber.
Where is the bill for £l,OOO Troughton, an attorney
in Liverpool, destroyed it in his own off►ce at the time I got
a warrant of attorney.
When was thatl.—lt will appear in the book marked A.
Did you make the entry at the time the warrant of attor-
ney was given ?—No.
When did you make it ?—About two months ago.
Did you make the entry from any written document?—
Yes.
Where is that ?—I don't know.
Why was the sum of £l,OOO fixed upon as the amount
the bill 1-1 had wo❑ the remainder of the money from him.
By the CommissioNEß..—How did you win it from him
—At cards.
I warn you I shall expect distinct answers to the question.
I am about to put; take as much time as you choose, but be
careful how you answer them. How long is it since yofi
won that money I—Somewhere about July
Last July ?—July, 1842
What time in July?
think.
Had you been in the habit of playing with Johnson
No, sir.
Was it won at one sitting, thenl—About three times.
Did you always win from him, or was the luck alternate—
did he sometimes win from you ?—No.
He never won from you ?—No.
What was the game?—At Put.
Have you been in the habit of playing that game ?—Yes.
Frequently ?—Yes.
'Were you in the habit of playing for large sums?—No.
What do you call large sums?—(No answer.)
Have you ever lost as much as £3OO a week at any game
or species of play ?—Never.
Nor £so.—Never.
Where did you play at put with him ?—Once at my own
house and once at his.
Are there any houses kept for play in Liverpool ?—I don't
know.
Have you ever been in any ?—No, sir. I never was in any
gambling-house in Liverpool.
Have you played much within the last twelve mouths?—
Yes.
At Clubs ?—No, sir.
Always in private houses I—Yes.
I ask you upon your oath, how much have you ever won
in a day ?—About £lOO
At cards ?—At cards

leutAtiftloor•rs:al:openetv.tToopuurcpoonsteendietdotuh.attthe land had been
h asto be applied to that
kr. t;, e
to Riv , .ttkNs recollected how important it was, at the time,
If the; evvvee? advantage and facility to the mahogany trade.n
ItliAll all 11 excluding mahogan it might be right to r.eli -t
hialic,„„,°ther use of this lacey'except for mahogapv , bu
,ele,':"Yilid not exist, and the land must either be idle and
IVith:t 'e applied to the only article which offered itself.
I'l'eheri,Prd t.o the danger, there was not the slightest ap-
,mi..
,on of it. tit4retillieee,coilitl
trheepsleiesdhettlsa,t if there was no danger to be aP-
zas, 1,0
wletLse of buildingit wijarsef_oplrloyoifa warehouses. There
eeTthoegr.oe "41,1 weer, terY great danger: and if a fire occurred, it
ll'oAfte cet the Oilps at that end of the docks.
sve,rtterl(3till. further discussion, Mr. BRAMLE.Y-MOORS
ha t,l4riii air. 'MIDDLETON seconded, a resolution, which
r
„e ret,,,,,"uslY adopted to the effect, that the whole matte
'"e L" t() tile Finance Committee,. to examine whether
wh.., ?i.raet hnd b
4' steps 4,"0"u1d ebeeta:celated, and if it had been violated,

414, e "°IIGE'S PIER LANDING STAGES.
"I
I) rolt Messrs NV S. Dixon and Co. co►nplaining
t‘th,itat't,„44Blll:o'guisatespiiGeo..rge's Pier-head,
_and suggesting
3 re!err be hauled in two hours before high water,
ed to the Town Council.

fo,il.4llOittee of'
Ther,(:,,
k„iikiam ATHEN'S ROCK CULVERT.
Au stated that a resolution of the Finance
i.,, Pertaiss• the 16th instant had been
th,
ellt ion to make a connection from the Queen's Dock
received, applying
,lhe t3v,sert
SaidPrepa for cleansing the River Craft Dock..
aeh .vtyo, . ,
'on to it,
11144,) 1,48 th 4 ti there was only one object!
with
lety Nter4t the water abstracted would be replaced
he ~ • I,.vAN
~,Pehted
s 8 nsked how often this operation would have to
1)441:'e, Snavi" , Year?
' The
e 4 A
.10k replied three or four times a year..
„e e
4"(1 it 1 'l' the Old
I ''ered tt Quay Company hl.tcl the same privil g ,
fortr; ty4lis ie water in the docks five or six inches.
I,,Th stik enquired whether they allowed anything
laZieeenblige(l!You. replied in the new ; the cominitte,e.
to allow it if they could do so without inconvt.
The
alVlication was then granted.

Th
to
_ t
tt. Q.P..EN'S DOCK. nastNd'. be
proper for him
or tVcs thig ,)14441 said, perhaps it
.woul
the consideration
pti le
pectoro?tpteortutriliaity
.of rrieTing
ettlec,erl is, t bock
iela,
si n
,t
eittl
be desfiorrable to deepen the
i'vlillt4t 'he.W exactly 110:U7'i:tit stood.
Ile idea w
a_,_
.Ha,rtley. had provided
alien the e. ‘Videned fifty yards from the eas.tern H tihniabut
eti..e taitilections were before them the comTttsioemwweodu_
''eeif opirieion it %YRS a 9uestion u
tri'leliti4t to the "Mt .Nirithjßaio, thesat7 "'
and
exist ; l)ut stio:ceoenthwetcurrence of the
I possibility of siniitd'rielba.re-rt
ilt.ltiviitle that
the
basin
zzltdie.:,(,)furUth'eorrke.sxchaavdatteldloutoghtthie
I,4lfti),earer to the rock. The intention of thek
tiutiNd Was to protect small vessels from being nowcrko:e_dk.
1,7. it wr, Y. the large ones; but it was a question now.s,noe__
11414) :'d not be well toff xcavate it at least 50 VHd r
Hartley
jut! 144,,t) to the wall altoth But when Mr. ,to
ke, -ated the sections the But
would be able
Th
lit e
Vli.tlidity. 411'.'vort said the sections would be ready on
i.„l. kol.„
ValliN,-- wo,lt, Iv hoped the time was not far distant, when
- Otlly ~,,,, e a couple of good graving docks theie._
.teloet
tat"ltlog for trade to mend a little before the h
totat greviri:•., There was not such a place in all. L. iv,set.ir,,opirooal
theNanit t°o `JOoks. It Nas a very expensive
_thin, t
pith tr '.:fag his ship through all the central dock up to
tilfi'll'Pose4'lllg docks ; but if this situation were applied to
44. t1ieb441.." great
tir4"d then public benefit would be
_teheen result.oy
, .‘,ipust.be tilled up, as it never lin.tbl
ex t
pense.
ui,' ttikl,r"',er..ration could be made at a trail
L1i.11.40 .---ave you good grounds for that lgast obser-
It -111:. Akl,ll,"„_--Yes.
li'm he i •-•*---rtave you any notion how much the cost
%11% hoyo,
4triae Qat,
vv'l had a notion that it might be made at less
etitt,e rk .„ 48 pnerally imagined.
tip ive4ol::::::thersyo:oo:geivail nits: a notion of the expeonrsmeOubse?-
41•Cerovne"wals understood that it would be en
)4 r, C nversattoitnbteheresquub;cdt.dropped.
,tlp '' um -()s.r ot, Tut nomic wanxnonsEs.
lairehei; 'ald he wished as there was considerable rnias-s
I,Btitnet u " the subj. el to •sk the surveyor what %
,t 1 he su eof the test of eth ' D ask
Warehouses?
14wer thilNYoß replied el
••
Dock
had the memoranda to
,3ed ov qoestion i
his t ldt Lie
44. , er, The u pocket last week, but the subject
'the !lot„..._.,grin
was £ll II s. per square yard.
4,. Ztlitvl.,o"°es that include the vaulting?
TI, 'uoto ' tt."--Yes.
,r.ie N„,..,:---ki,d the pilinif'
vreel:e QttAiNt•—•-les ' •
lt bee,u rtAtAN said he did ot Press the question last
ik,.tv4s, howse he thought jr' Hartlentried hardly certain.
Ne'okaints liee impo;tat t cnstoYnfor by the new:tp.rto
tstit,iaiul theestito.ate had 'been nais.stated fr.om w`w"as in
Tl, 'l4 the
e_ pablic thereby deluded. The mistake
4riatitle.t4tvtovst three tinier by
amount.
have
t The v °4 did not know how the mistake could
,gaviut „ItAtillkiA .
Surveyor
001- -"de u - said it probably arose from the survoder-
eel,
tto Nem, 'e of the term q re " when he was u have
polol,:tthiiitiatarret Ufad, . insstueld of £36, it should
how
i' aii;, avtl•o,, 1, third of it.
take b„,l-• having
repeated that he could not tell to
e°sers,.l4. tl•;....ll°_e_ekir,red, and made some exla'yattiohnesre-
ON Te subjeetwhich could not be heard 0
ttit4i4 :444eial t°,llPed•
and the
e- aepaNte44l'‘‘elta were then disposed of,

Have you ever played at dice or hazard ?—Yes.
Any game at dice ?—Yes.
How often in the course of the last twelve months?—
Perhaps fifteen times.

You have stated your winnings in the course of one day to
be £lOO, more or less ; now, be good enough to tell me what
was the most you have ever lost in any twenty-four hours,
and take your own time to answer the question, but be
equally accurate about your losings as you were about your
winnings ?—About £2.
In one day ?—Yes ; on the very outside.
Are you sure of that ?—Yes ; certain.
Tell us who you won the £lOO from?—A friend of mine.
Who was it?—William Brown, of St. Helen's.
Do you, then, mean to swear that you have never lost to
him more than £2 a-day ?—Never.
Or to any body else?—Never, sir.
Is that your deliberate answer?—Yes, sir.
How soon after you lent the £5OO was the bill given ?
A few days after.

How long did you keep that bill before the warrant of
attorney was given ?--Under a week, believe.
How does it happe❑ you never made any entry of the £5OO
bill in this book (A) as the warrant of attorney is entered ?
I cannot say.
By Mr. JAMES.—Where did you first become acquainted
with Mr. Johnson ?—At Charles Orton's public-house, in
St. Helen's.
By the COMMISSIONER.—What is Mr. Brown, from
whom you were lucky enough to win the £loo?—He is dead.
Did you ever win as much money from any living person
in the course of a day ?—Not as much.
Then how much ?—Fifty pounds.
Did you keep a gauaing-book, sir?—Never, sir.
Did you never keep any book in which you entered any
sums you won or lost at play ?—Never,
Now tell us if you please, the name of any living person
from whom you ever won £5O in one day?—Livingston, sir.
What is he ?—He is a travelling Scotchman.
That.ia a very comprehensive kind of character you know ;
tell us what you mean by that ?—I believe he takes samples
of goods out..
He is then, what in ordinary phrase is called a commercial
traveller ?—I believe he is.
Can you tell us where he is to be found ?—I cannot,
Have you played often with him ?--Twice, I believe.
You are not sure?—No, I am not certain.
Did you win on both occasions ?—I
Fifty pounds upon one : pray, bow much did you upon the
other ?—Perhaps thirty pounds.
These things you must know, unless you are in the habit

. .
of *Wining or losing, laige sums are things calculated to
make an impression upon a man. Now could you state it
was not £4O ?—No.
Why men who get their living by industry in trade, would
be likely to remember the sum ; are you prepared to state
you did not win from him £4O ?—Yes.
Then how much do you say you won upon the second oc-
casion?—Perhaps £3O.
llave you been in the habit of gaming with any other per-
sons, who are either not travelling about the country, or who
are not dead ?—Yes.

Have you ever won from any one who is alive, to whom
we can have access ?—Yes.

Who is that?—Charles-Orton.
And do you mean to swear that £3O is the utmost you
ever won from that gentleman at a sitting?—Nn, sir.
Give us what you have won from him ?—Pe.xars £2O.
Will you swear it was not .£3O?-1 cannot, sir.
Will you swear you have not won £4o.—Yes.
You fix the sum then at about £3O ?—I cannot tell what I
did without calculating.
Am I to understand then, that you have won at a sitting
£2O, £3O, £5O, and £lOO at a sitting, and you have never
yourself lost £2O in any 24 hours ?—Yes.

_ .
Have you money at-all in the stocks or funda ?—I have
not. ,

In the year IS-12, did you, in all that time, lose money to
the amount of X2oo?—Never Sir.
You have been very fortunate, I must say, but at the same
time it is just possible: but thank God I know very little
about it—

By Mr. JAMES.—How much have you won since the Ist
of July 1842

The COMMISSIONER.—That will, of course, take him
some time to calculate; but tell me whether the £lOO you
won from Mr. Brown was since that period ?—I think it was.
How much have you won since then ?—Nearly £2OO, I
should think.

By Mr. JAMES.—gave you not won considerably more
than X200?—I believe not.

When did you become acquainted with Mr. Johnson ?
The latter end of May or the beginning of June, 1842.
Were you at that time in business ?—.go.
How many times had you gambled with him before you
lent the first sum of £3so?—Once, I believe.
Now, I ask you upon oath whether the two T. 0. U.'s
had not some connection with gambling transactions?—They
had not.

How did you get the date in the book A of the 11th of
July, 1842?—From Mr. Richardson.
Who is Mr. Richardson ?—My rather's out-door clerk or
foreman.

H ow came you to apply to him for that date ?—He lent me
the money.

When aid be lend it pin ?—I believe it was on the 9th of
July, 1842.

Did he lend it you in Liverpool ?—lle did..
Did you tell him for what purpose you wanted it—to lend
to Mr. Johnson ?—I did.

Where did you get the £5OO you lent to Johnson ?—I got
£3OO from my brother John; £lOO I had myself.
Did you tell your brother John you wanted it to lend Mr.
Johnson ?—No.

Did you tell him what you wanted it for?—l did not.
Had you ever borrowed any money from your brother
John before ?—Yes ; I used to get £3O or £4O whenever
I wanted it; I had only to ask him for it at any time.
Did you ever borrow from him before as much as £lOO at
one time ?—Yes, but I cannot state the date.
How often I—Perhaps twice.

The Mr. Slater you have before spoken of, is he not now
in the employ of Messrs. Chaloner and Fleming ?—I can't

say.
At bow many different times did you borrow the sum of
£4OO from your brother?-1 could not tell without referring
to my liook.
Did you enter them in the book ?—I did not.
Then how will the book tell you? Now, upon your oath,
without reference to the hook, did you ever borrow £4OO at
all from your brother ?—I did.
When ?—I believe it was from May to June. It is in the
book.
Can you give no better account of the times of receiving
the £4OO from your brother John than that which you have
given ?—Not without referring to that book. [The bankrupt
here referred to the book A.]
Have you not been applied to by the family of Johnson to
know where he is ?-1 have.
Do you know where he is ?—I do not.
By the COMMISSIONER,—Did you know he was going
away I—Yes.
Where was he going ?—To Carlisle.
Have you had a letter from himl—Yes.
When I—Three days ago.
By Mr. JAMES.—CouId you not have given information to
his mother, when she applied to you about him I—l might
have done.
Can you then give no better account of the times of receiv-
ing the £4OO from your brother ?—I can. May the 10th,
1842, £100; June Ist, £150; June 22d, £100; July 10th,
£5O.
When did you make the entries in book A, from which the
foregoing account is taken ?—This morning.
Where?—ln Castle-street.
Do you mean in the open street ?—ln thejopen street.
.From what did you take the entries ?—M y brother gave
me the dates.
By the COMMISSIONER.—Do I understand you state you
borrowed the £350 from Mr. Richardson to lend to John-
son ?—Yes.
Did you tell your brother that the £4OO you got from him
was to lend to Johnson ?—I did not.
Am I to understand you borrowed £4OO from him to lend
to Johnson I—Yes.
Where did you get the £5OO which you lent to Johnson in
one sum ?-1 got £4OO from my brother, and £lOO I had of
my own.
By Mr. JA➢IES.—Was the whole £5OO lent to Johnson at
one and the same time ?—lt was.
Had you it in the house at the time •-ou lent it ?—I had.
How long had you had it by you ?—I can't say.
Had you any more money than that by you at the time ?
Yes.
How much ?—I cannot say.
About how much ?-1 really cannot say : perhaps £5O.
Had you had the £5OO in your possession as much as a
week before you lent it ?—I think I had.
How longl—lt is impossible to say; it may be a week; it
may be three or four days, or a fortnight.
Did Johnson apply to you for the
.purpose of borrowing
the £3so?—He did.
When did he apply to yoU?--About the 7th or Bth July.
Had you any' money by you then ?—Yes, perhaps £4O.
You borrowed it from Mr. Richardson upon the 9th

In Liverpool?—Yes

Did you come to Liverpool for the purpose of borrowing
the £350 ?—I did.

Did you see your brother upon that occasion ?—I knew
that Mr. Richardson had the money by him.

Can you tell me any one personnfro-m whom you received
as much as £lOO, between the 9th of July and the 21st ?
No.

Did you receive as much as £lOO from any one person
during that time ?—I can't say ; I might have received £2OO
or £3OO from my father, veryllikely.

Did you make no entries in any way of the moneys you re-
ceived ?—lf I had received it in business it would have been
in my cash book.

flow much beside what you received in the way of business
did you receive in that interval ?—I can't say ; I can give no
account.

From the Ist July, 1842, down to your bankruptcy, how
much did you receive besides what you received In the way of
business ?-1 cannot tell.

By the COMMISSIONER.—What other source had you of
receiving money besides from your business ?—None that I
know of, except from winnings.
Mr. BARDSWELL.—There is borrowed money.

The COMMISSIONER.—I do not know what he should
borrow money for, except to lend it to strangers. That is
the strangest part of the case. Did you borrow any money
between the first of July and your bankruptcy?—Yes, from
my brother.
_ _ _

flow much altogether—putting the £350 out of your
mind—did you receive except in business ?—I cannot say.
Mr. JAMES.—How much did you borrow—putting Mr.
Richardson out of the question ?—Perhaps a couple of hun-
dred pounds.
The COMMISSIONER--Pray how much did you win in
that time altogether, from July to March, at every species
of game you played at ? Perhaps a couple of hundred
pounds.
Do you mean to fix it at that ?—I won, but I never got
paid.

How much did you win, sir? I think it is highly probable
you were cheated, for if respectable men, merchants, wili
venture into public-houses to gamble, they must expect to be
cheated ; and now, sir, tell me how much you won, whether
you got it or not ?—£7oo or £BOO.
And you think you have received of that about £2OO ?
—About the beginning, I should I yes.

You swear you have not received more than £2OO ; will
you swear you have not received zC3OO ?—Yes, sir.
By Mr. JAMES.—How long before you lent the £5OO to
Johnson was it that he applied to you for the loan ?—Three
or four days.

The COMMISSIONER.—May I ask you, Mr. Sothern, what
bond of connection there was between this man of a month's
acquaintance that could give him a claim upon you to borrow
£350 in one sum, and a few days afterwards, another sum of
£500? I want to know how he, almost a stranger, should
think of asking you fur a loan of £B5O ?—He said be could

give security

- Did you tell him, when he asked you, " Sir, I have hardly
known von four or live weeks, how can you ask me for such
a thing ?"—I did ask him.
What explanation did he give ?—He said he had asked two
or three people in the town, and he could not get it from
them; and ha said he would give me security..
Well, sir ; I have been looking at this balance-sheet, and
I see what at that time was due to your creditors.—(No
answer.)
By Mr. JAmms.—Now when he applied to you for the
£350 loan, had you the money by you ?—I believe I had.
Then how came you not to lend it him there and then ?
I came down to Liverpool. and a day or two afterwards I got
a bill drawn out, and I lent it him.

That is not an answer: how came you not to lend it him
there and then ?—I forget now.
By the. COMMISSIONER.—You stated you had the money
just now ?—I wished to inquire whether the security was

. .
good.
By Mr. JANIES.—WiII you explain the meaning of the
words, " I had £lOO of my own'"—That was not borrowed