The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-04-05 00:00:00

LONGFORD COUNTY ELECTION.

Colonel WOOD reported; from
.the Longford Election Com-
mittee, that .Luke White,Esq, and ,Thmes Halpin Rorke, Esq.,
were not duly elected, and ought not to have been returned for
the county but that Lord Forbes and A. Lefroy, Esq., had
been duly elected, and ought toßave been returnee. The com-
mittee also reported that they had altered the poll by striking off
72 votes.

• _
The Clerk of the Crown was ordered to attend in the house
to-morrow, to amend the return.

CARRICKFERGUS ELECTION,

Mr.. O'CoriNELL moved for leave for this committee to ad-
journ, at its rising on tomOrrbvo, to Tuesday mkt. The hon.
member complained of the conduct of some parties in obstruct-
ing the production of Some documents before the committee ;
but the committee would withhold their names to a future occa-
sion.—The motion agreed to.

BIRMIN6IIAM AND LONDON RAILWAY.
On the motion of Sir E. D. SCOTT; this bill was read a third
time.
The hOn. Member said he had'a clause to propose, that all
those who had signed the deed should, on the bona fide disposal
of their glares, be freed from all further respoMibilitv.
The further consideration of this subject was (in the absence
of Mx. Lawley) poStponed till to-morrow (this day.)
Lord MORPETIi postponed his Motion for receiving the affir-
mation of Quakers to qualify them for odes under government
till the Bth of May.
After some conversation bet Ween Mr. W. Patten and Lord'
Althorp, the former consented to postpone his motion for a torn-
mission to coned evidence as to the state of children employed
in faetOrieS till to-morrow (this day.)

MARyI,;:roNE iL-gCTION.

•••="1. •
A petition against the late rAttra • for this borough was pre-
sented (we did .nothear by Whore.) was ordered to be taken
into consideration on the 21st of May.

307

DRAWBACK ON SOAP:•
Lord ALTHORP, in answer to a question from Mr. Alderman
WooD, was understood to say, that it was intended to prosecute
those parties who were recently concerned in exporting soap to
Ireland for the purpose of receiving the drawback.

MINISTERS AND POLITICAL UNIONS.
Sir J. TYRELL rose to put a question to,ministers owthe sub-
ject of a statement made on a former evening by the hon. mem-
ber for Tralee, (Mr. M. O'Connell,) in which it was alleged
that some of his Majesty's ministers had signed ar considerable
number of franks, addressed to members of the political unions..
As the hon. member was prepared to repeat his statement, and.
to.produde the gentleman from whoin he heaid it, he thought it
was due to the members of the government generally, and to
the noble lord who was at its head, that some satisfactory an-
swer should be given to that statement. It was also due to the
lion. member who had made it, and who was ready to repeat it.
He (Sir J. Tyrell) would let his future motion on this subject
depend on the answer which he might hear from the noble lord.,
Lord ALTIIORP might feel himself justified in not returning
any answer, seeing that the hon. baronet had fa.gotten to put
any question to him. (Hear, and a laugh.) He would, how-
ever, go into the explanation which the hon. baronet wished.—
The statement of the hon. member for Tralee was, that cne of
his Majesty's ministers had franked 50 letters addressed to mem-
bers of political unions for the purpose of exciting those unions
to urge the return of ministers to power. He had asked the
hon. member to whom he had alluded, and he answered that
Lord Grey was the minister by whom those franks were.signed.
He had seen Lord Grey on the subject, and his noble friend
stated to him that he did not remember having franked any let-
ters about that time, and that he had never franked any letter
for any member of a political union knowing him to be such, hear.) For his own (Lord Althorp's) part, he had new
ver franked any letter for that purpose. He made application
to the hon. member who was then the private secretary of Earl
Grey, and at present secretary. to the Treasury, and he stated
that he did not recollect having given any such franks ; -he
might have given a few franks about that time, but he had never
given any franks for the purpose of being members
addressed to membe
of the political unions, with any kuowledge that they were
or with anv knowledge whatever of the contents. (Hear, hear 4
Mr. M. -O'CONNELL said that the gentleman (Mr.'Rushtpn
we understood) from whom he bad received the statement Was
ready to repeat it at the bar of that house.
Mr. C. Woon said that he had never given any franks for
members of political unions. Ile would not say thatthe franks
which he-had given might not have been for members of such
unions' but he had no knowledge of the fact, nor of the contents
Of any letter which might have been sent under any covers.-
Sir J. TYRELL hope,d the noble lord and the hon. member
would not deem him guilty of any want of courtesy if he should
persevere in pressing the subject, and following it up with a
motion; but after a few remarks, which were not audible in the
gallery, consented to withdraw his motion.

POOR LAWS FOR IRELAND.
Lord ALTIIORP brought up certain documents emanating
front the commissioners appointed to inquire into the poor-laws.
The noble lord observed, that the commissioners had made no
report. These papers, which were very important, consisted,of
extracts from the evidence.

Au hon. MEnnEn inquired whether the whole of the evidence
was brought up ?
Lord ALTEORP.—No, it is not.
Mr. O'CONNELL said it had been repotted that he had given.
notice of his intention to bring forward a motion relative to the
establishment of poor-laws in Ireland. He had not done to.
His intimation was, that he might possibly- feel himself called
upon to take such a course. But since he has seen those ex-
tracts, he was bound to say that he would not give his consent
to the introduction of poor laws into that country. Ireland was
afflicted with many evils—but he was glad to say that she had
hitherto escaped this misfortune. When those extracts were
read, the house and the country would see thatpodr-laws would
not do there.

Mr. RiciiAnus said that nothint, which had fallen from the
hon. and learned gentleman had changedc his opinion on this
subject.

Sir E. KNATCHDULL was of opinion that a system of poor
laws 'Was necessary to -Sectire peace nrid tranquillity in Ireland,
as well as for the relief of this country.
Mr. HUME suggested, that before poor laws were framed for
Ireland, it woulci be well if they set about correcting the abuses
which were connected with those of England. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said, before they introduced poor laws into
a country where they never Were before established, they should
take care that they were so framed as to be advantageous to
the poor, and at the same time divested of the evils which were
connected with the poor laws in this country. If by any con-
sultation or deliberation they could arrive at a system of poor
laws that would be advantageous to Ireland, and which would
at the same time evade the abuses of the English poor laws, he
conceived that it would be a great improvement in the state of
Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. H. GRATTAN argued that Ireland was in such a fright-
ful state of poverty and distress as rendered it absolutely neces-
sary to introduce poor laws.
Sir R. PEEL said the time would very soon. come when the
whole question must be considered, and when the views of lion-
gentlemen would be subjected to the most severe scrutiny. He
therefore called on ministers not to do any thing until the Sub-
ject was most maturely considered. (Hear, hear.) A com-
mission composed of persons of high character might be ap-
pointed to inquire into the condition of the Irish poor; they.
might report as to the best Means of extending relief to them,
and they might further declare what part of the English poor
laws might with advantage be-Applied to Ireland. (Hear.)
The papers were laid on the table.
IRISH DISTURBANCES BILL.
The Deputy Usher of the Black Rod summoned the house to
attend in the House of Peers, to hear the Royal assent given
by commission to certain bills. The SPEAKER and several
members proceeded there accordingly. On his return, the
SPEAKER informed the house that the Royal assent had been
given to the Irish Disturbances Bill, and to several private bills.
CHURCH TEMPORALITIES (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the house resolied itself
into -a- committee-on the above bill. .

Lord ALTHORP said that, in moving the second resolution,
he felt it necessary to make a very few observations. The dis-
cussion which took place last night, and the speech of the right
hon. gentleman opposite, had a very close application to what
he was about to state. The right hon. gentleman and others'
objected to the principle of laying the tax on the present in-
cumbents for the purpose of relieving the people of 'lreland
from the vestry cess. In making that proposition some time
ago, he obSeryed that he had every reason to believe, from all
the inquiries which his Majesty's government had made on the
subject, that the clergy of the church of Ireland would not feel
any objection to the tax which was about to be thus imposed on
them. His right hon. friend, Mr. Stanley, who was not now a
member of the house, had written down what he had authorised
him (Lord Althorp) to state with reference to this point: His
right hon. friend said, " In all the conversations which I have
had with the primates and the clergy, there never was any ob-
Mjection taken to the principle of taxing the present incumbents..
Many of them expressed an anxious wish to me that no differ-
ence .Should be made between them and their successors."
When he spoke thus on the occasion to which he referred, he
therefore had reason to hope that the clergy of Ireland had no,
objection to the proposition. Now it undoubtedly did turn oute
that many of the clergy of Ireland did object to the system of
taxation proposed, (hear, hear,) and he was perfectly ready to
say, that if any other mode of relieving the people of Ireland
from the vestry cess could be pointed out or discovered; which
would be advantageous to the clergy, by rendering the proposed.
tax unnecessary, he should not object to it. (Hear, hear) It
was, however, R under all circumstances, an object of OI im-
portance that the vestry cess in Ireland should cease—of such
importance to the church itself—of such impoi Lance to the in-
terests of the establishment in Ireland—and almost to tire very
existence of the church—that this cause of dissatisfaction shoula
be removed, that he could not recede from it. (gear, hear.).
If; in the , consideration of this question, any mode could he
found for providing for the vestry cess witliont touching the
present incumbents, he should be most glad to adopt it. (Hear.)
The right hon. gentleman last night confined himself almost
entirely to the poor clergy ; he, however, could not see, in the-
present state of information on the subject, how he could alter
the tax as it was now proposed to be collected. He should be.
well pleased, however, if any other mode were shown by,which.
the impost could, be avoided. But the committee would ob-
serve that a very large portion of the tax would not fall on the
parochial clergy, but on the hierarchy of Leland; and the.
argionentma ad inisericordiam could not, therefore, be advanced
with all that fotce and effect r hich the right hon. gentleman
seemed last night to attach to it. The hardship on the people
was, that a vestry exclusively Protestant had at pre pent the
right of increasing.. at their pleasure au assessment which others,
who had no share in apportioning it were obliged to pay. This
was an hardship that pressed, peculiarly on the people of Ire-
land, and therefore the Boman Catholic owners and occupiers.
of land felt it severely. The noble lord again insisted on the-
necessity of removing the vestry cess, anu observed that if no,
other mode could be devised for .getting -rid of it,-Parliammt,
had better agree to the proposition of his Majesty's ministers_
With respect to the proposition of the right hon. member fee.
Montgomeryshire, that the schedule which was appended to the-
bill should lie attached to this resolution, it.appeared -to him,
that it would make no difference in the discussion whether it
(To be contioded on page 309.)