The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-08 00:00:00

aid, that after what had fallen flotifil
)er for Tipperary (Mr. Shiel) On ,
round, in justice to himself, and t 0)1
) address a few observations to the 0)11
I asked him (Lord Duncannon)
and also whether he could state thO'
e county of Carlow had been s'lc,
ssary there? Now, he was reaut4''
to give his support—his relucwe,
gill; and also that he could st3`;ell•
in the county of Carlow bad to
r from the official return wade
winted Lord-Lieutenant of that '01)10
ider absolutely necessary the aJto'
re there. It would afford timed
1 under which the public suffere
ed w be redressed by every gece f
d a seat in that house. Many, °,,t 0
girt before the house by his rig",
e was an abolition of the tithe
• hoped to see tranquillity indent-
y might be great, he was confio
its attention to some provision 0
v

(I that the merits of the questi°l3o
heir proper grounds, and that 64
st whom he reckoned himself) Po
in involving in obscurity a subJecgii
ecretary for Ireland had shed a'

•
Tressed his belief
.that miserYirel
the crime which prevailed in 411;
ut an end to political agitation, alb
dial measures, by which they o's t)
tion ? The present measure 03100
1
and he begged to remind the Ili
;hatham made use of under near 1.4
t is true that violence prevailso,o
hat there is not liberty on the, id
her." (Hear.) The hon. nouadv
asked " what liberties Ireland h
right hon. Secretary had salVbel,
feared before it was loved." be'
I from them, he could hardll 100
persons who used to declaim s°ll,
n the Reform Bill was under c°,,,
the right hon. member for 1:31:5
dvocated upon this occasion t,5
pursued whilst in office, but tri
could not lay claim to an erj,i'e
trt which he was acting. 3d
to the house an extract fron'A
ord on the subject of the BritA
d expressed his deliberate and tele,
fiber read the extract, which s°,o

as were too prone to pass olep
of a ministry." He objecteoi
measure, and therefore ho
,t
ins with respect to its detaiFih
ise to justify the passing of stitbe
because it was opposed tq pee
justice, and utterly at varla

hat he heard so many inaicTogi
when any hon. member
felt almost inclined to DO' )
. He would, if the house V° ttitc,,s
it to demonstrate to the rig t`tl,,,"
'amworth, that the amend iibe
right hon. member for I,ol:"ct"pi,_P;
imagined it to be. The ova lejlet4,o
he house an. opportunity' ite
sere now gornbr on in lrelantlelo',Vo
1 been made by ministers ea
ntry were or were not found
.t house should know that., "wet
ie, every allegation made I)ery
tived. The charge of cent °.cie
eived stated that enforcereie Pscl
t to meet the exigency of fesir
e the liberty of stating 3, rOOO
e hon. members, who "ere the
ion which proceeded froli
attend to. Ihe hon. gent
Mr. Justice Jebb, at the
Mr. Justice Moore, and v
ud was in a comparative s,
long letter, addressed to 1'
Ireland, and Concluded b.,
bite the present nieasorfs
lignation, feelings escite
—the love he bore the c 9

the further adjournment of
nd " Adjourn.")
the question on the further

observed, that .he was quitt
who still had to address the
as not likely the debate wolli
apprehension, however, tyat
.nd he should rather theinel
r (Mr. Lefroy) address hc
were come to that the bay

1e proposition of the noble
ience was likely to theoceu--1
ling, and by that means
self, be
ver, as regarded him

hope that some little attenti,
ish members.
reed till to-morrow.
his motion on the distress oi

e o'clock.
:'UESDAY.
ed till five o'clock, the ho.-
m3eting till that hour in hallo

Ifertfoittt'S to try the merits of the Carnarvon borough and
k loroci.borough petitions.
Plese44,.g conversation took place respecting the difficulty of
tl4l,4nefl petitions, notwithstanding the morning meetings of
leltted h ' It tiiteirred that but 61 petitions have been pre-
Skties tidet the new arrangements, and that there are 320
leste, treVill,
ol'. eskers list, Which, at the present rate 0.. f pro-
i'4 *er`.4,zu nt be disposed of for 6 weeks to come, it even
a, h, fa,,f no other petitions in the meantime to be presented.
Tied, fart
that but 6 or 7 petitions per diem were pre-
.l4 dbia 'le 'oltae 40 new ones were daily entered on the list.
It! which ii 'vas universally ascribed to the habit of long. speeches
kltetly Abt!l• tnernbers iidulged on presenting petitions; the
.i.kr. o';,•,llensly was brevity.
'!! NI, t#olThittl. said the delay would operate very preju-
VlillhEigai.nst the people of Ireland, Who were daily forward-
-0 petitiohs against the coertive measures of ministers.
the Pt°6l:l,,ell4°lgs, Mr. R. WASON, and Mr. LITTLETON urged
:0 Nirblieletj g hon'
.xnembers confining themselves as much
eat ,to ii - e carting facts oi tne petitios irrelevant to theui,
oti, ecuPY the least possible time in speechif-
i,llt, 6 (4,,11ear hear.)
rtitlbh °B'-'ll. thought the best remedy would be to have each
::::::::vmati:kianlgoud distinctly and unhurriedly, without any
I'lle ',Z3,1'1, al, ent oh the part of the presenter.
1,,,"et of "LR trusted that the discussion would have the
hon. members to a sense of the necessity, to
wkir di:'4,": tile Public business_, of their exercising a whole-
-!,th ,-.°.!•,011 in respect to the harangues and speeches with
thLor,Nitions were at present usually introduced to the house.
Lis
obtained leave to bring in a bill to regulate
re'lltdath. 43„fehildren in the mills and factories of the united
tiLoille thdiscussion to take place on the first and second
'lllll7' ""e bill having been in the meantime printed and
It , ed.
the I% Hu
tot, .mt obtained leave to bring in a bill for incorporating
to the glee of management of the Seamen's Hospital.
tvi'lloth," motion of Mr. O'CoNNELL the order of the day for
-4 t 4 tll'ellic names of the members who were absent from the
N. suppltt'llse was discharged.
14&:4 the °SION OF DISTURBANCES (IRELAND) BILL.
'''al thtention of Mr. LEFROY, the order of the day for re-
th4t. LE debate debate on the above bill was read.
L,e'e, ry :„IteY said that he felt it his duty to allude shortly to
4, Ole Cnng observations which had last night been made
perittetint,ebtl°nrable member for Drogheda (Mr. O'Dwyer)
14. to sa°,",areo Smith. The hon. member had thought pro-
cilttlre4,`"et the learned baron, in the discharge of his duty,
LA' to ;411,1 a grand jury, did not hesitate to sacrifice a prin-
kiita for antithesis. He had been acquainted with the learned
,itilllPoa-teJ Year; and could honestly declare that they did not
dl g'e; ande lencli a more constitutional, humane, and upright
4,..tte as 'e was utterly. at a loss to imagine how such a
wegiied.s that made against him by the
.bon. member for
(Z1ea,.17 e° made proceed from Iny person in the profession._..
(4it 1_ sense 4 baron was remarkable for his fastidious and deli-
,4Q ifLef honour.The hon member for Drogheda had
1 akt:ste -!,(4,13' of the learned baron's. knowledge of law : to
(I,,ltilati,e4" an imputation it was, perhaps, only necessary to
4,1'e%, 0 was the first judge who had been called upon to
ty t hi% 11. IC whether passive resistance was illegal, and
stibiltileilie,n in favour of its illegality had been confirmed
Ititi4et. ,fudges who had since turned their attention to the
441 hacil)at °pinion probably was the cause of the censure
fro tire 1),0 eela passed upon him. Now, with respect to the
try the e the house, he admitted that it was a departure
iy;,tli that cnstitution, which could only be defended on the
1,j,,, ,fthe ordinary law was insufficient to suppress the
lie 4s4d:' filltrage
, terror, and intimidation, which prevailed in
l'itt,iltert,lPPeared to him that no reasonable doubt could
halt otteni"." that crime prevailed in Ireland to an. unparal-
kkq alld defend that a conspiracy existed, whose object was to
oe 40'4 are at the law. The real object,of those who called
fd k tbe ~isms'f grievances before measures were taken to
li`s-ay,,ry to tranquillity,—who declared that Irelend
'th tw - ueen wise- verned by England, was the separation
1 4 64'0 '()while the spirit of
had „ ap, h , oms ; and
1
'4ll,4eVer °‘ Otliy by political but by spiritual agitators, Ire-
tioCtlcb„,_ecettlel be peaceful or prosperous. Let not the I.lg-
'Nt tith-"e deceive themselves by the idea that the extiuct-
IN 4!4itats es' the abolition of the vestry cess would satisfy
4tiZetion ell* NOthing could content them but the entire
illaprztite-hq the established church and the repeal of the
4'.pots,steb;tliien• (Hear.)c He concluded by stating that if
Isgo br tig convince of the necessity of this measure,
)511.zdi.4,,ty Ziaghit it forward, they would have been deficient in
i',llii'N it ,Ica they owed to their sovereign; and if, after
$1,4,01t , torward they allowed it to be frittered away by
\.41 - `hqty?'„,corlin ht.; they would be wanting in the duty
"obra. 41- ,-„Zed to ethe state.
~Oircihldl;;;',l4-N declared his determined hostility to this bill..
‘0411.t.,-.!atieett-eq. the existence of Whitefeet outrages; but'thoe..
1 tto—%art• °I the British constitution and the infliction . r
•.,1 P t°111441 was not, in his opinion, a proper mode of putting
,I,lrti ern.
4t till laliclittsoN said, that as an Irishman, he could not but
1 4,114 t bmont the necessity which existed for such a measure
isl'rio„Nti? the house; for he admitted that stern necessity
le CII eothl,eslify it. It was not, 'he assured the house, without-
etilo she,-71.,eration that he had Itrade upthis mind as to the
1II)telsIti• t ":" 4i've on 'this occasion. He had done -all 'that ;
t1ee,,,,4°`rkee,..,,1f he could conseientiously oppose it, but the?
/kl.:l'3', Drief.'.q on it the more convinced was he that it was,
zrettept ,„_,-'' biereV to restore traquillity,hut for the secant),
ruched
sobs't .“14e Property .in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) !He re-!
eitit aa k cesslty he was under of supporting it, and !the ,
(Tit,. :t for.A4twas aware that an htin. friend of his, the hon.
R 4 rd an•Zulagli,latl yesterday presented a petition from
418,-4 Aehe7in,st it. The petition was signed by many of his l
4;tlit.re the°,ll 9 warmest frieads. This he lamented-, 'for he •
I• it iie...uad been misled do the subject by the want of
0, t,i"i;ltt,Toation as to its nature and ()Weft. BLit, be that
imt!sid .kiloN., i,' question was one of too great Importance for'
L'sit,eratir„"lniself to be influenced do it by -any interested
\‘`tkt‘jy., /11-,44. This had been condemned as a coercive and
' (I ‘4;`,'t tit :sum ; but did not an arbitrary and coercive sys-
11,4itic,Lera zr,esent in Ireland, which called for this enactment,
\4,ll,`l'kt ia;nseh' dictated to men what laws they should obey,
I,ANttita s theY should not obey? Was it not necessary
ti., th,reasure should be adopted for the security of those
/Itlitt theted, were perhaps inclined to obey the existing
),• tOth e present laws are insufficient for that purpose,
1,,? Ipf„ Proper that a stronger safeguard should be found.
till 4v Meer,.ho. approve :f every part of this bill; there
1(4 tVkiltut details which he thought might be altered
44+Yit, age- (Hear bear.) He alluded particularly to
or;stNt ''ltttire to cotirts-martials (hear, hear), because he
f,,'lk;ilte,\ strong. prejudice existed against such tribunals
Iti,rlt,) hat end he did not wish to make the measure unne-
eNAdtitesh or severe. (Hear, hear.) If any provision
bet% , stituted in lieu of those military courts-martial he
Z. ly adopt it ; but if no such alteration could be
0 "1r e ould feel himself bound to give his support to the
a (jib .
*4),1
tztlar, gere
tc,,,-4et 1)t•R said the magistrates of Queen's County-had,
thP, rd'iSkeasions, been attacked in inch an unwarrantable
!tt-'d 1-,ei deli, '° would not be doing his duty if he did not stand
(Ital.; defendli, them, to show the real state of that county,
la -;,` and Lk, cis opinion with respect to this bilL It had been
fledKb, elolination was practised' towards grand jurors in
ohdle ~e'illaties. He could give very many instances
k,;,t, dt iil a juieyverse. He knew d a gelivtloeigoans.wtoinmolwB29
mowers
ikl:all,,,n_ilethtailllt ,_, wprheipellan9n.egeloie cut him his grass, but when
IiAT, a„,, Ue Was acting on a jury, they refused to work
-!0i1,,,--‘1 he-
the gngame- indivi dual felleuncutinto unta
drain, and heil October. A
1g to
tWavm
y labourers to help him out; the coe-,
the.anitrial perished. The report on their ta-.
~,,,te special commission had done much good.—
r,.,11,e ovar ro -Ireland ' three weeks after the corn-'
-tS4ng Onra titie to his brother, he learned that 'a
;'''' Atiderson, had 'been -waylaid in the neigh-
theae'statements) Ile
tshhot throagti the lungs. When down he was cut
late--7;Bwe'hts. g' Whilst lie lay on the ground dying,
,Ilan' called on' the•aseassins to say how he hail
`'ace
.
"any' hinnimheirtg•whatever ? (Hear.)--
re his need not-say, how happy he
e lk( u t)ii orttu this bill. •If the recommendation
;fie
.„,„""r siFe_ogthenine- the law had-been acted en
,-re
haea beneficial effect; 'but the
*-6"elltlYchaued for the worse, and he- feared
much'Ateers unless the system was put down, would be
mischief (Hear, hear.) Wishing to live in
Intfige to enjoy .peaee'irad ' tranquillity there, and
l D caTirtultrite 0 the connection between the •
e en--"•nst lfiapu- -jug 'of this bill,' ho certainly
, best assislance.
expreshatihitattelf.d 'd di hostile to 'this most
,:,hlagaandgidentdrttottrodn:tgrvtetr" 11tE t
et
iksrteet:eouelna: t‘ier 'at hhYc:aas
ore
u'itut
asgt le
tps. p
um th
i cohf thisd
di the atrocities which it of high colouring Lost-and Invested hem with a
that was calculated to mislead.,
me strong tone 'of col Calendar,—anif they had
t . presented, . dt. invested'
suspendiq
lad e,tisore for secretary the other night,
arsi gulhut chit .i us ti7erm:ouwnhdleohn dsluscihngauicsohceud-
, rtie___,,,,l,tht°, of
ihteh
the 'lefties of England, as
b.) v' eed in aiming this low at the liberties of Ireland.

\ .P‘
44 .11• '‘;
t
) ,
cs
aced that those opinions were not -ot
avince him of that by their acts, age
ne of their strongest supporters. to
,rsonally. He had been bred 114 F
earut his politics in the school of if
lit his conscience he believed thane;,
ould lead to a separation between
disgust the people of Ireland, wb°'
es of this Parliament would be coo'
had in his possession petitions on t
ill classes and all parties, who del)
led for. „e9';
,d that he, and many other inde,ri;
tnattached to any party, were 'tog
nful situation. In his opinion it raWn
licious address, and was introduce .glo
tunate manner. He felt the greste'rf,
ipose this bill, but he should be s°r(J/
ies in Ireland, guilty as they were
entertain the shadow of a shade ef,' 00'
laugh) that they were unjustly and
fined of the attack made by the rig),
:or Tamworth on the Irish landloru)
pressed the peasantry. The rig4tool:
the circumstance of land prodevi
irtion to the produce in Ireland toir
that the fact proved the exactions 14
were entitled to receive more relci,
seeing that farmers in Ireland
e soil, and that the wages of labos,
:ountry. In conclusion, the hon.
gle case of intimidation of a jur°r;or
Ad not object to the bill for chaug'
htFAc
;retted that the speech of the rig- 0,1
d, able as it undoubtedly was ?.
much on personal invective for
more statesmanlike tiews of the Otee,
speech contained a triumphant staA
matted, but regretted that the egolcr
by any promise of redress of grief Y
a. secretary held out noprospect 0
ation for centuries of misrule. beg
upported the measure, and descr!_tot,
ad as being unexampled in the bl,i00;
irderers and marauders prowled ' v.
and by day, unrivalled in boldli
aps, by the brigands of Calabria he
Nothing could exceed the apar,,,cY
: property was insecure,-11tneli
:s that bound society together is', ,
was annihilated, and society ia„otP;
a was neither remedy for injury
•,—the authority of the governinebjecta;
r superior to the law. What an
lent when a single individual cool
overnment, the law, and the coos"" eS` F
ivil and military force, had failed t°o.4
iberty, but it was of that liberty e't ab
sly co• existent with good order, be 0111
11
.ut it. He voted for the principleagl
elf the privilege of discussing 115;0'1.;
thought that a measure of the wa r
to restore peace, tranquillity, ell

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state if, fit 1,4 h.l that,
ti 38,,, t ha,
,11
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