The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-02-08 00:00:00

TUE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

thoroughly persuaded that the noble earl would not be able to
disprove one word of what he had advanced, as it was founded
upon the contents•of the documents themselves. (Hear, hear.)
A singular mistake seemed to have been made on the subj ec
of the navigation of the Scheldt; it had never been disputed by
the King of the Netherlands; and the treaty of 1815 gave him
six florins per ton upon all shipping entering that -river. The
King of the Netherlands, when the question was raised, him-
r;self offered to make the navigation free. But the noble earl
stated; that the treaty could not be carried into execution. He
,should like to know why it could not be carried into execution
,as far as related to the interests of Holland in the town of Ven-
'loo ? The fact was, that Venloo was to be ceded to Holland
by Belgium, and therefore the treaty could not be carried into
execution. It was said also, that •this was no war. He did
not pretend to be sufficiently Skilled in the law of the question
to be able to say whether it did or did not come within the de-
finition of a war; but this he knew, that it was very -much like
it, and that an embargo had subsisted for three months, which
had been imposed by the King in council. He had thought it
necessary to say so much upon one part of the subject, and he
would now address a few Words to their lordships on the war in
Portugal. There was no country in the world in which it was
more the interest of the British ministry to prevent hostilities
than in Portugal. By treaty we were bound to defend, Portugal
almost as if it were England, while our engagement with Spain
was to preserve neutrality. The magnitude of our commer-
cial establishments, and the nature of our commercial rela-
tions with Portugal, required that we should preserve her in
a state of independence; yet, how had our interests been
neglected, and our duty abandoned by the present ministers !
The present state of Portugal was called, in the King's speech,
"a civil war." It was a revolutionary war (cheers)—a war
carried on by means furnished from England, and for the sake
only of plunder. (Hear.) It was supported by persons who
had no earthly interest, but that which was derived from the
hope of plunder. (Cheers.) Yet this was the war which the
King of England was taught-by his servants to call " a civil
war ' between two princes of the house of Braganza. He
knew something of war in general, and something.of war in
Portugal, and he would teil ministers how they might put a
speedy end to existing hostilities there. If, indeed, they wished
to restore peace, let them issue a proclamation, calling all the
Kiiig's subjects from the service of either party. (Cheers.) Let
thetn at, the same time carry into effect the laws of the country.
(Hear.) Let them not, when the commissioners of customs
had seized vessels laden with men and means, interpose to pre-
vent adjudication. (Cheers.) Let them allow the law to take
is course, and judgment to be given in such cases in the proper
aibtinals, and the war in Portugal would terminate of itself and
at once. (Hear.) If ministers must employ fleets, let them
send them where they were necessary—to the Levant, 'instead
of crowding the Douro and the Tagus with British ensigns.
Let them do this, and peace would be restored in Portugal in a
much shorter time than a war had been kindled there. With
respect to the proposition that measures shall be taken to dis-
tribute the revenues of the Church. of Ireland, he must say
that he could never consent to entertain such measures until the
measure for ameliorating the condition of the clergy had first
been well considered. (Hear.) It was said that the Church of
Iceland was to be considered separately. Did the noble earl
recollect the act of Union by which the Church of England and
Ireland, was made one and the same,when he put this expression
into his Majesty's speech ? He was afraid this doctrine of " se-
parate consideration " would lead to dangerous consequences.
He was happy to see that Government had determined to come
forward with strong measures in respect to the disturbed state
of Ireland; but if by other measures, they. led the Protestants
of Ireland to think that they meant to injure the church esta-
bishmant of the country, they might depend upon it, their
coersive measures would be without effect (Cheers); for they
must have the co-operation of the Protestants of Ireland to
make their measures effective. They should not lose sight of
the fdct, that the Protestants of Ireland were the real friends
of England. He would also remind them that his Majesty
had sworn to preserve inviolate the Church of England, and
that the time when the Dissenters, and.the Roman Catholics
were emancipated, a certain form of oath was framed, by vs hich
they were bound not to interfere with the Church as established
by law. Against these oaths Parliament ought not to run
counter, and he trusted it would not. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of RonEN expressed his determination to support,
by every means in his power, the Government in their efforts
to repiess outrage and violence in Ireland, and he could assure
the House, that it would be supported in carrying into effect
any suph measures-by the Protestants of Ireland. He trusted
that every care and caution would be manifested in the measures
about to be introduced respecting the church establishment;
and he was exceedingly glad that the church of Ireland was
to be separately considered. (Hear, hear.)
The 'notion was then agreed to; and (at ten o'clock) the
House adjourned.

HOUSE OF CODISiIONS.

MONDAY, FEB. 4.

• The SPEAEERc entered the house and took the chair soon
after half-past l2 o'clock, and the swearing in• of members pro-
ceeded With but slightintermission during the day. Among
those moo. took the oaths this day we noticed the LORD Anvo-
CATE of Scotland, .Lord CAVENDISH,- Mr. GULLY, Mr. A.
BARING, and Mr. HODGES.
'At four o'clock the House adjourned until 12 o'clock to-mor-
row (Tuesday.)
We understand that since the election of the Speaker, up to
the adjournment of the .House to day, no less than 411 members
have taken their oaths' and their seats.
_ TUESDAY.

When the SPEAKER returned from the House of Lords and
resumed his seat,

•
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notice that on
Tuesday next he would bring under the consideration of the
House a measure respecting the state of the Irish church; and
that on Thursday; the 14th,- he would move for leave to bring
in a bill for regulating the corporations in England. On
Thursday, the 21st, he proposed to bring forward a bill for
effecting a commutation of tithes in England.
Mr. STANLEY gave notice that on Tuesday, the 19th, he
would move for leave to bring in a bill to amend the grand jury
laws in Ireland; and on the 21st for leave to bring in a bill for
the regulation of the constabulary force in Ireland.
- Mr. Grum gave notice 'that on the 28th instant he would
move for leave to bring in a bill for taking the election of mem-
bers to serve in Parliament by vote by ballot. (Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice that on Thursday, the 7th ilia.
he would move for leave to bring in a bill for the abolition of
all laws authorising the payment of vestry cess in Ireland; on
Thursday week he would move for leave to bring in a bill for
the total extinction of tithes in Ireland. (Hear.) On the fol-
lowing Tuesday he would move for leave to bring in a bill to
amend an act entitled "an Act to amend the Representation of
the People of Ireland;" and also to bring in a bill to amend
the system of registering voters in Ireland, and to substitute
other provisions for those of the existing bill. On that day
week he would move for leave to bring in a bill to restore the
common law in Ireland, with regard to the subletting of lands
and tenements; and, on the same day, for leave to bring in a
bill to amend the grand jury laws, on the principle of represen-
tation. He also gave notice that on that day week he would.
move for leave to bring'in a bill to amend the laws relating VI
special juries, and juries in criminal cases, in Ireland; and on
that day week for leave to bring in a bill to restore to the peo-
ple of Ireland the right to elect conservators of the peace in
that, part of the United Kingdom, and to regulate the mode of
electionand the authority of such conservators. (Hear.)
Mr. Waits gave notice that on the 21st of March he would
move for leave to bring in a bill to prevent the duration of Par-
liament being longer than three years.
Mr. F. 13urroN gave notice that, unless his Majestv'S
government took up the question, he would on Tuesday, the
19th inst., move for leave to bring in a bill for the abolition of
negro slavery.
Lord ASHLEY gave notice that on the 19th inst. he would
move for the renewal of Mr. Sadler's bill respecting the em-
ployment of children in factories.
Mr. WARBURTON wished to know from the noble lord, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether it was the intention of
his Majesty's government to abolish the duty on newspapers ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he felt persuaded
that every one acquainted with the subject must see the dis-
advantageous effects of this tax, and his wish was to amend the
tax in that respect; but at the present early period of the year,
before he could know any thing with regard to the state of the
finances? it was, quite impossible he could pledge himself either
upon this or upon any other measure.
Mr. E. L. By wEli gave notice that he would, upon an early
occasion, move for the appointment of a committee, with a view
of removing the taxes on newspapers—taxes which were so
much detested throughout the conntry.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL gave notice that on the 14th of
February, he would move for leave to bring in a bill for the
abolition of fines and recoveries, and also a bill to amend the
law respecting dower and courtesy.
Mr. respecting
wished to know whether it was the intention of
his Majesty's government to fill up the sinecure office now
vacant of Governor of Berwick, and also the sinecure office
now vacant of Director-General of Artillery.
'1 he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was intended to
fill up the office of Governor of Berwick, but with regard to the
situation of Director-General of Artillery he could afford no in-
formation to the hon. member.

Alr. HUME then gave notice that on Thursday next he would
bring forward a measure for the abolition of all military sine-
cures whatever.

Mr. Holum°rsi gave no ice that on the 26th instant he would
move for the appointment of a select committee to revise the.
system of taxation, with the view of substituting a regulated
property tax instead.
Members were then sworn up to four o'clock, at which hour
the speaker withdrew, and remained absent till within a quarter
to five. Oh the right hon. gentleman's return the Sessional
Bill was read pro forma. It being proposed that the discussion
on the sessional orders should stand postponed till to-morrow,
(this day,)
Mr. Bums said it would be convenient if the house should
now fix a period for receiving private 'petitions.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should propose,
to-morrow, that Mr. Speaker should take the chair at twelve
o'clock, and sit till three. for the purpose of going through pri-
vate petitions, and all other matters of that nature, and that
public business should commence at five precisely.
After some further conversation, in which Mi. Cobbett took
part,
Mr. O'CONNELL said it was his intention to take the sense
of the house upon the question that the house tihould sit at.
eleven o'clock each day, and not continue sitting 4 later than
eight o'clock at night. He also intended to bring forward a
proposition for rendering effectual the non-in erfei ence of peers
at elections,' and also to tender effectual the prevention of
bribery.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was his intention to bring forward
his motion of last session on the subject of bribery.
The motion for the postponement was then agreed to.
The SPEAKER then proceeded to read the King's speech;
and when he had concluded— •

Lord ORAIELIE (who was dressed in the regimental uniform
of the Life Guards) arose arid addressed the house, concluding
by moving a humble address to his Majesty, which, as usual,
was an echo of the speech itself.
Mr. MARSHALL, the member for Leeds, seconded the motion.
The address was then. read from the.chair. • •
Mr. O'CONNELL spid he rose to oppose the address; he thought
it a brutal and a bloody address. It was a declaration of civil
war against Ireland—it was au address which would occasion
many a wail—it was such an address as had been put forth in
the case of America, where;•also, with brutal perseverance, said
the honourable member, you sent your secretary to write your
orders in blood ; but • now, as then, your perseverance in sa -
guinary councils will terminate in your utter disgrace. Again
i repeat it—this is a brutal and a bloody address. When I hear
the noble lord, the member for Perthshire, tell us that, a Re-
formed House of Commons will be more attentive to the affairs
of Ireland—when I hear the hon. member for Leeds talk of at-
tention from an English legistature to the concerns of Ireland,
and tell us how much better under the coming state of things
the conduct of men in office in that country will be watched;
when I remember how much was expected there from this ses-
sion of parliament; r can readily conceive the bitter laugh of
scorn and derision with which the Speech and the address will
be read in my country. They will be considered as they are—
a declaration of civil war. Let me ask this question :—Why
was it that my country was cast as a spoil to this Secretary?
We had been told in his Majesty's last Speech before the disso-
lution of parliament, that measures were in progress which
would tend to retard the increase of crime. -I beg that his
Majesty's Speech on closing the last session previous to the
dissolution of the late parliament be read as far as it relates to
Ireland.

Here the Clerk of the- House read the passage, which- was as
follows :—" I have still to lament the continuance of disturb-
ances in Ireland, notwithstanding the vigilance and energy dis-
played by my government there in the measures which it has
taken to suppress them. The laws which have been. passed in
conformity with my recommendation at the began-mug of the
session, with respect to the collection of tithes, are well cal-
culated to lay the foundation of a new system, to the comple-
tion of which the attention of parliament, when it again assem-
bles, will of course be directed. To this necessary work my
best assistance will be given, by enforcing the execution of tie
laws, and by. promoting- the prosperity or a country blessed by
Divine Providence with so many natural advantages. As con-
ducive to this subject, I must express the satistictiou which I
have felt at the measures adopted for extending generally to
my people in that kingdom the benefits of education."
O Mr. 'CONNEL L here stopped the clerk, and continued—l
would ask, then, this right him. secretary for Ireland this one
question. How comes it that a country which has been blessed
by Divine Providence with such advantages as Ireland has
been—a country which possesses such advantages as (I do not
say Scotland only), but such advantages as even England does
not possess equally; hew comes it that this is a country with
respect to which Providence is blasphemed when we term
advantages ble,sings ; how happens it that, where Providence
has done so much, her rulers have done SQ little, or so ill ? How
is it that her landlords flourish and her farmers starve ? that her
people are so poor, her church so rich ? After seven centuries
of in's-government to which my country has been subjected, is
this to be our remedy ? Is there to be yet another cry for
blood ? If Irishmen had had the management of their own
affairs; if all the disorders had taken place unaer Irish man-
agement, then, indeed, might there be some excuse for having
recourse to force; but•when I hear the noble lord talk of dis-
orders which have arisen while you have been governing for us;
when I hear you complain of us after sven centuries of mis-
government on your part; I throw back on you the chat ges .vhich
you lay onus; to you "impute our miseries, and on you redounds
our shame! If it is so; if it is your Misgovernment which has caused
our disorders; force will but incease the evils. There is but one
remedy—to do justice. I ask again; Why is it that .Ireland
has fallen as a spoil to to the right hon. Secretary ? Tkle noble
lord (Ormelie) the member for Perthshire, has cond. cended
to make a speech. ' A speech, toe, received with much applause
by many in tho house—the noble lord has condesended to make
a speech at me; he has poured forth the vials of hs wrath on
my head—insupportable infliction ! In these times there is r o
popinjay that walks the streets, no scion of the infer.o.
superior nobility, who does not venture his sarcasm on I e-
land. 1 have suffered this infliction ; bit I throwlit back wish
scorn. Why, again I ask, has helium been left as a spoil to
this Secretary? Is Ireland now more quiet? On the contrsrv,
have not crimes inciea.seu tenfold ? On this point all paitits
are agreed. There is no difference of opinion on that subject.
'1 he only question on which it is possible for us to differ is ,
how it is that crimes have thus increLsed. (Great 'cheering.)
Whence have those disorders originated which we all know
have spread so wide, and are still spreading? There -are two
modes of accounting for their increase. The one is that which
has been adopted by the noble lord, the mover of the address.
He attributes all Ireland's errors and all Irelands's crimes to
me—to me, the agitator. (Hear, hear.) Such has been
the language of the noble lord. Oh !, do not these right
honourable gentlemen on the opposite side know that they
themelves, but last iyear, were as loudly 'aCcused, its they
now accuse me, of this same crime of agits*ln ? Last year
they were the agitators of the people of :England. Not
one of these terms is there, of which the noble lord is so
liberal to me, which was not then, and with equal propriety,
applied to the right hon. gents. on the other side. 'Then they
treated these terms with contempt. Wr.h contempt, then, do
trea.t,tmC:.4 terms when-they are applied to me. Oh I have these
crimes, indeed, arisen from agitation? They have been created
by misgovernment—not by agitation • they have been created
by deeds—not by words. The noble lord calls me a bird of
prey, and asks for my co-operation in measures for quieting
Ireland. Am Ito quiet Ireland? Has not the noble lord seen
the right hon. Secretary for Ireland, in that country for two
years • and what has he Acne during so long a period of suffer-
ing and o! crime ? Nothing. He has given to-night some
notices on the subject—some rhodomontade of a Grand Jury
Bill—some measure for increasing the constabulary f irce; and
whether I be a bird of prey or not, I know that the e are not
the measures which will quiet Ireland. It cannot be worth
while, indeed, to ask counsel of a bird of prey. (Hear, hear!)
All the noble lord's metaphors, and his birds of prey, are light,
compared to some of the epithets to which I was accustotned
during the time of agitation. the conduct of Ins Majesty's
government will cause me to agitate again. Ministers ari agi-
tating for me, and far more than ever. Ireland has arrived at
that state of inanition which generally precedes the political
death of a state, a state which can be cured only by the san-
guinary remedies of civil war. The repeal of the union is a
measure which is now necessary, not only for the good of Ire-
land, but for the safety of the King's throne. Honourable
members last year were in the habit of talking of the repeal as
a thing so distant, so improbable, so impracticable, that it scarce
deserved a moment's consideration. This year all parties in
Ireland are reconciled to it. Formerly, the right honourable
secretary used to talk of it as a subject which would never be-
come a serious question; nol,ody now denies that it is a sub-
ject which requires discussion. It would be more advisable in
any case, if the subject must be put down, that it should be by
moral truth, and not by force. - If any man will say that agita-
tion has produced the present state. of Ireland, he is totally ig-
norant of what every statesman ought to know, the history of
the country which lie governs. The whole history of Ireland
proves that agitation has not been the cause of the evils in
which it has been involved. If they be right, and can so prove
it, then agitation ought to be put down; if not, is it just that
England should once more be called upon to send an addi-
tional force of bayonets and of bullets into my unfortunate
(For the remainder of the debates, see last page.)