The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-02-03 00:00:00

be any saving from the investigation. If there would not
be, it might be worth consideration whether it would not b..
better for the Paid Officers' Committee to suspend their
labours for the present.
Mr. H. LAWRENCE said if he had had anything to do with
,the appointment of sergeant-at-mace he would not have
sanctioned it, because he thought it was made more from

motives of private friendship than from necessity for the

"office. Be should be very sorry at the same time to say any-
titing disrespectful to Mr. Roscoe. He thought the cheapest
way would be to pay the salary, and go on as usual without
taking counsel's opinion or going for acts of parliament.
_ Mr. HODGSON contended that it was absolutely necessary

for the Paid_ Officers' Committee to proceed v

quiries ; and that if the council were in an equivocal position
with respect to the sergeant-of-mace, they ought to place
themselves right as soon as possible. it would be most in-
consistent for the committee at this stage to sus
labours

,nd their

Mr. HORNBY begged to ask the chairman of the Paid
Officers' Committee whether the doubt as to the legality of
paying the sergeant-of-mace, from fees, arose in the mind ?f
the town-clerk or among the committee themselves? His
reason for asking this question was this—that he always un-
derstood counsel's opinion had never been taken except upon
the requisition of the town-clerk. The town-clerk was the
legal adviser of the council; upon any legal difficulty the
members resorted to him ; and whenever he was in doubt,
it was then proper for counsels' opinion to be taken. No
one had a greater respect for the members of the legal pro-
fession than he (Mr. Horoby) had; and he was glad to see
so many of them in the council, because he had always found,
In matters of business, that men of such clear heads were
eminently proper for such situations ; but he did think
that, when solicitors were members of the council they
.should consider themselves as members of the council only,
-and not as legal advisers. He made 'these remarks in con-
-sequence of the legal opinions which had been taken upon the
compatibility of the offices of town-clerk and clerk of the
peace being held by the same person. On that question the
town-clerk himself never had the slightest doubt; and, if the
opinion of the Paid Officer's Committee had been correct,
the council would have been in an awkward situation, for
they would have to pay £l6OO a-year for a clerk of the peace,
and £2OOO a-year for a Town-clerk. In the, present case he
thought the question had been raised very unnecessarily,
especially as the Town-clerk, who was the legal adviser.of the
council, entertained himself, no doubt.
Mr. MOORE said that individually the members of the
Paid Officers' Committee would be glad to be relieved from
any further labour thereon ; but, as the council had decided
they should go on, they would discharge their duties faith-
fully. As to the expense which had been incurred, the coon-
cil did not yet know that several departments had been in-
.quired into, which had not yet been reported upon. As to
the Town-clerk's department, Sir Thomas Braucker himself
had complained of its inefficiency, and he bad acts.""
beyond the Paid Officers' Committee,
posed to give the borough solicitor £9OO a-year, he moved
and the council carried it, that he should have £lOOO.
ith regard to the immcdfate question before them, he did
not see what the committe were to do in the face of two con-
flicting opinions, but to take further advice.
Mr. Axxix asked who had stated the case for the opinion
of Mr. Cowling?
The TOWN-CLERK replied that he had.
Mr. Ancor then inquired whether the case put to Mr.
Cowling was the same as that submitted to Mr. Hender-
son ?

for while they pro-

The TOWN-CLERK said that it was precisely the same.
Mr. AIKIN.—And the opinions of the counsel were diame-
trically opposite to each other?
The TOWN-CLERK.—Yes.
Mr. ALKIN held with Mr. Hornb.y that the opinion of the
Town-clerk should have been the rule for the guidance of
the committee. If they were to take counsel's opinion upon
all subjects in this way, they would be throwing away a great
deal of money very uselessly. He should move that the
council rest contented with the opinion of the Town-clerk,
backed as it was by that of one of the counsel.
Mr. BIRKETT asked the Town-clerk whether, under the
circumstances now laid before the council, he would
not advise a further opinion to be taken ?
The TOWN CLERK said he might be allowed to state, upon
the question submitted to the council, he had himself never
entertained any particle of doubt whatever. His own opinion
was in favour of the legality of the appointment and of the
payment; but two eminent counsel had been consulted; they
had given opposite opinions, and, therefore, he did not see
how the council could rest satisfied, strong as his own opinion
might be. He thought, as therhad the opinions of the
higher branch of the profession than he belonged to, which
were diametrically opposed, the council must gu further, and
have advice to determine the question one way or the other,
and that under such circumstances they would not be justified
in listening to any opinion from the Town-clerk.
Mr. H.LAWRENCE contended that they had been making
these payments for many years without their being questioned,
and, therefore, he did not think it necessary to solve the
doubts now raised, either by act of parliament or the con-
sultations of counsel.

Mr. LLOYD replied at considerable :length. He con-
tended that, with the exception of the responsibility, the
office of sergeant-at-mace was a mere sinecure. The salary
now attached to it had been calculated upon the basis of the
fees, but it now appeared that he was entitled to no fees,
therefore it became a grave question whether it was legal to
pay the salary.
Some further discussion, of a desultory characters fol-
lowed, after which it was determined that the Town-clerk
should prepare a case for the opinion of the Solicitor-General,
in which he should embody any fact which could be clearly
established.
Mr. AIKIN, who had previously called for it, but to no
effect, moved that the opinion of the Town-clerk, upon the
question which had been made to the committee, be read.
The MAYOR said that the decision of the council had put
an end to the subject, and it could not be re-opened.
Mr. EARLE thought the couhcil should not go to law
expenses without knowing what they were going about.
The subject then dropped.

DOCK COMMITTEE.
Mr. SANDS moved that the proceedings of the Dack Com-
mittee be confirmed, which having been done, be Pr°-
posed that for the future those proceedings should be read
immediately after the Watch Committee's.
After some Observations from several members, in which
it was shown that there was a necessity for the change, the
motion was carried.

EMPLOYMENT OF A STEAMEn.
Mr. Nowrit said, thir4 was "perksps the right time for him
to give notice that, at the next meeting, he should move a
resolution to the effect that it was expedient that the Council
or the Dock Committee, or both conjointly, should provide
and maintain a powerful steam-boat, to be used exclusively
in aid of the present or any future additional life-boats for
the preservation of life and property upon the occasion of
wrecks or other disasters at sea ; and that a deputation be
appointed to confer with the Dock Committee with the view
of effecting this object. For very many years an intention
had operated upon his mind, almost with the solemnity of a
vow, that whenever or wherever the means might be in his
power, Le would promote this object ; and he would now
only say, that in the situation lie now filled he should not
cease advocating it till he succeeded in persuading the council
to carry out what he believed to be a most solemn duty.
Mr. Alderman EVANS remarked, that as this was only a
notice of motion, he should say nothing upon it at present.

THE FIRE IN LAWTON-STREET.
The MAYoit read a memorial, very respectfully worded,
from fifteen tradesmen carrying on business in the Arcade,
contiguous to the scene of the late fire at Messrs. Foster and
Stewart's premises, in Lawton-street, praying the council to
take their case into consideration. Their losses by that
calamity amounted to £195. 10s., which, added to the fact
that their business had been thereby annihilated, bad com-
pletely ruined them ; and they now begged for such assistance
as the council might have the power to give.
liaThe council, it appeared, had no power by law to interfere ;
and the memorial was therefore ordered to lie on the table.

ROBBERY IN THE PEDLAR'S MARKET.
The MAYOR then read a memorial from Thomas Needham,
shoemaker, of No. 2, Cropper-street, and occupier of a stall
in the Pedlar's Market, setting forth that his stall had been
robbed some time ago of goods to the value of £22 les. bd.
An application which he made to the Council last month for
compensation (he contending that the robbery was committed
from the market being left in an insecure state,) had been
referred to the ;Markets Committee ; and he had been in-
formed that they had no power to interfere. In consequence
of this result a subscription had been commenced in his fa-
vour, by which a sum of £6 2s. had been raised ; and he now
requested the Council to make him a grwit in aid of his loss
out of the surplus fund.
Mr. HARBORD spoke in favour of the memorial.
Mr. COOPER said he had no doubt at all that if the man
were to bring an action against the Corporation he would re-
cover the amount. That was his legal opinion. (Loud
laughter.)
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Is that opinion worth paying for,
Mr. Mayor ? (Renewed laughter.)
Mr. Alderman EVANS.—II would be good news for many
who had had their country houses robbed, to know that they
could come upon their landlords for the loss.
The memorial was ordered to lie on the table.

TILE CORPORATION DOUAY BIBLES AND ST

CATHOLIC SCHOOL

?ATRICK'S

The MAYOR read a letter from Mr Edward Bretherton,
S -cretary to the committee of St. Patrick's— Catholic School,
Chester.street, Toxteth park, enclosing a memorial from
that body, signed by the Rev. William Parker, M.A. The
memorial set forth that the Douay version of the Bible had
been prohibted in the Corporation Schools, and the copies of
it formerly in use were now lying.. neglected in the hands of
the corporation : the memorialists therefore hoped that the
council would direct them to be delivered to the committee,
for the use of their schools, which were greatly in want of
them. As the Catholic chidren had been virtually expelled
4.t.cfn the Corporation Schools, memorialists hoped their
aPPliation would beconsidered,eon that ground, as entitled
to some'eOnaideratio n. They had 817 children of the poorer
i
glasses to educate n schools which they had provided since
tile change in corporation system, whilst the means at their
disposal were very limited.
The memorial concluded by
requesting that the books now lying in the cellar be delivered
over to them, either as a free gift, or by way of loan, or at
some trifling charge, so as to obviate any legal objection that
might be •
raised.
Mr. Alderman EVANS said he was one of the last men in
the council who would wantonly bring forward anything dis-
tasteful to the majority ; it would be worst possible mode
racting ; but he conceived that this memorial had come
The
in a shape which made it his duty to
bysupport its prayer.
rtthmegtown-clerk
Will legal objection which had been raised
with these
_ as now altogether obviated with regard to .ita
books, by the offer to purchase them T—that was, to give at
useless
least a nominal equivalent for them.
In the Town-hall ; and if the council looked uelLenityliinesge Bibles
and Irish extracts as property, they were bound to make the
Most of them by disposing of them one way or another.
Holding them was not a desirable speculation .upisonittichvoeaulpnuaceriti
of the council ; it was not likely that they would r
therefore, as a matter of property, he called upon thecteaenritable
o dispose of them, and they could not dispoosfeof bet-
ter than by giyin,, them to a regularly organizedbody who had undertaken the instruction 800 children.
Another reason why he supported the memorial was, that
w.Ving to the altered system in the ,chools, the council had
virtually Yirtually threwn the children out, it was a necessary,;ca osnnse.
fi tience to send their books with them. Besides, this
ti n affair of buying or -purchasing, books, it was one of restoort_
Ong the bOoki, Once in the poSsession of the children, and
Which had been wrested from them.
' 11Ir. BRAMLEY-MOORE asked if they were not corporation
property
' Mr. Alderman EVANS said lie had ‘,..-'ready explained that
they were corporation property for use f and it they did not
aSe 'them they ought to have accompanied' those who were
using them at the time tliev were virtually excluded from the
.e.hools. If he were told that the hooks themselves, with
their notes'and coMments, offended against true religion, and
Piat'they were of an evil tendency, lie held it Was imperative
upon the council to 'order their destruction. This, indeed',
Itti4 neeestaty,'beeaue there was no-
Middle course ,'for the
Ketplfig of fherti in the ToWn-hall Was rutthing the chance, if
they'were bi'd books, that they might hereafter produce evil
by getting into the people's hands. The council ought to
to look at them either asgood'books, useful for the purpose
of religious instruction, or as noxious books which ought to
be Oesteoyed. The position of the council was most unfor-
tUnUtely, in' this 'respect, a false position. The alternativ
e
be had mentioned was imperative upon them,either
they
oleeyt
theta go into use or to have them destroyed ; but would
dare to destroy them ? Would they dare to burn hundreds
Of Bibles, and numbers of the Irish extracts, or selec-
tiotta from those _Bibles, which had been sanctioned by the

legislature, and by tile higir dignitaries of the Zvi and tire
c=hurch? Would they venture to exhibit before the country
:.n auto dale like that? He apprehended not. What, he
would ask, could be the valid objection to letting these books
go into hands who were willing and desirous of using them ?
He could see none ; and therefore he would move that it be

I referred to the Finance Committee to'examine into the num-

ber of the books, the number of scholars, and the wants of
the schools now applying, and either to give the whole up, or
such part as they might think proper.

The motion was seconded by M. Alderman EARLE.
Mr. Alderman NICOL contended that Mr. Alderman Evan!
was labouring under a mistake in the numbers he had stated

He (Mr. Nicol) had that morning inquired how many of the
Douay Bibles the corporation had, but not of the Irish Ex-

tracts, and he had been informed that there.were only about
I twenty Bibles, all of which were very much worn. _ _

said be had been informed that

Mr. Alderman EVANS
there were several hundreds

Mr. Alderman NrcoL again stated that he had asked the
question only that morning, and the answer was, there were
only 19 or 20, he could not recollect which.

Mr. Alder Man EARLE remarked, that the number sig

feed nothing : it was the principle which was contended in

. .
Mr. HARBORD stated that there were a great number of
the Douay versions in the schools which, when the system
was changed, were found to be deficient. It was presumed
that some of the boys had taken them, but it was not thought
worth while to probe the matter. At all events, as the mode
of education adopted by the Reform party had died a natural
death, the books must be considered as having, in like man-
ner, gone to the moths. The Council were not justified in
doing that which was prejudicial to their own acts; and, on
the other hand, if any member proposed that the books' be
burnt, it would be said it was done to insult the feelings of
those who differed from them ; therefore, it was far better
that this memorial should lie on the table. The schools when
conducted by the Reform Party in 1836 were not supported •
by the parents of the children in the same proportion as they
were now. From a return which he held in his hand, it ap-
peared, that, at the end of 1837, only the small sum of
£OB 7s. 11d. had been paid by the children, whilst in the first
year of the present system they produced the sum of £265.
Mr. 11. HOLMES asserted that the cause of this was, that
the poor people could not afford to pay.
Mr. HARBORD said, in continuation, that in the first year
of the present system, £6O more had been received than there
was_at the end of the third year of the former system.

The MAYOR begged pardon for interrupting the speaker,
but he must say that be was not now speaking to the
point. That was not the number of children in the schools,
or what was received from them.

Mr. HARBOR') said. he was merely replying to Mr. Evans,
who considered that these books were the property of the
Roman Catholic children, because they had used them once.
They had used them once, but it was gratuitously. Some
Douay Bibles had been supplied in the North School, by the
Roman Catholic priests ; and when the system was changed,
they were permitted to take them away.
Mr. Alderman NicoL explained, that be had received his
information as to the number of the Bibles from Mr. Okill's
office.

Mr. HODGSON, after what had passed with regard to the
subject of education, confessed that he had not expected to
find: the subject agitated so soon again ; but it was perfectly
clear to him that the object of the present memorial was not
to obtain the few bibles which were in the possession of the
Corporation, but to keep alive the question. So far as he
was concerned, he must make his acknowledgments to the
party who had brought it forward, because it served the great
cause he was engaged in promoting by being agitated and re-
agitated. The cause, Mr. Evans said, was good, and where
ignorance was bliss it was folly to be wise. He (Mr. Hodg-
son) should think that their bliss would be to remain igno-
rant, and not to expose the darkness of the cause which they
were anxious to put before the public. Mr. Evans had stated
a reason why he would give up these Douay versions—because,
he said, the Douay version was the property of the Catholics
—the Roman Catholics he meant—thence confirming what
had been all along stated, that the old schools were Ro-
man Catholic schools, and not for Protestants and Catholics
according to the established church. If the books were their
property, it must have been in the view that the schools were
instituted for the propagation of Popery. (Hear, hear.) He
agreed with what had been stated, that the question of giving
the books up was one of principle and not of value; and he
contended they could neither give nor sell, nor circulate any
thing, which, in their belief, tended to evil and not to good.
(Hear, hear.) They had decided upon the system they would
pursue, and they would not allow anything to be used under
their sanction, that was productive of evil. (Hear.) If Mr.
Evans moved that the books be destroyed, he (Mr. Hodgson)
might not object to such a course; but he had given as a
reason why the council should meddle with the subject, the
inconsistency of the government in connection with which
the majority were acting : they shewed a public inconsistency
in the practice which could propound one system of educa-
tion for Ireland, whilstthey dared not face protestantpopula-
lion. of England with the same. This was the situation in
which the government stood, and they would assuredly receive
correction for it. Men could not blow hot and cold : they
must follow the course laid down by that which they advo-
cated as the truth, the whole truth and nothing hut the truth ;
they could admit for no temporary purpose of policy, nor for
any earthly scheme, the countenance of a system that was
unsound. Therefore, he said, the very agitation of the ques-
tion of the question opened new views, and it shewed to the
great Protestant population of this town, who were alive to
this questionothat a continual expression of their sentiments
would do great good, not for the maintenance of men but for
the sake of truth. He should move a direct negative to Mr.
Alderman Evan's motion.

Mr. EARLE said, that as be has merely seconded the mo-
tion, he had the privilege of making a short reply to Mr.
Hodgson. Although Mr. Harbord had been called to order,
he (Mr. Earle) hoped he might be allowed to make one ob-
servation with regard to funds. The very argument which
Mr. Harbord bad used, was the very argument of the liberal
party for keeping the schools as they were. It was their
wretched poverty which prevented the children, when the
schools were under the late direction, from paying more
money ; whilst the present council was receiving money from
children, and from persons who could afford to pay, and
they had actually shut up in consequence other schools to
which they all subscribed before. Mr. Harbord, therefore,
upon that point had cut his own throat. As to the gentle-
man who had spoken last, who said that because the Douay
Bible was in the schools they taught popery ; he (Mr. Earle)
could call it nothing but quibbling. They taught good sound
religion ' • and a vast number of protestant children went
there to learn it. The catholic had as much right to believe
the Douay Bible to be true as Mr. Hodgson had to believe
the authorised version ; but he should not take the trouble
of replying ro his assertions. He should be a fool if he did,
they were so nonsensical.
.(Cries of " Order.")
Mr. HODGSON.—Do you think, Mr. Mayor, that this sort
of conduct is allowable ?

Mr. EARLE.—Really the observations of Mr. Hodgson
are so disgusting that 1 cannot help it. (Renewed cries of
" order.")
Mr. HODGSON.—I appeal to you, Mr. Mayor, for protec-
tion aninst this language. _ _

MAYOR.-Air. Earle, you must withdraw the word
" disgusting." I think you are wandering from the question.

EA;LE.—I will, Mr. Mayor, in deference to you, for
I cannot say how much I am satisfied with your conduct in
the chair.

Mr. HODGSON.—Do you think that is a proper apology,
Mr. Mayor?
Mr. EARLS.—Why, what would you have? Mr. Hodgson
would not take the apologies that some gentlemen can give,
and therefore he thinks he can insult those gentlemen. (Cries
of " order.")
The MAYOR.—I am afraid we are getting from bad to
worse. (Renewed cries of " order.")
Mr. HODGSON.—I really must appeal to you, Mr. Mayor,
to put down such language, otherwise I must retire.
The MAYOR expressed his strong disapprobation of the
words " insult" and " disgusting ;" the latter had been with-
drawn, and he was sure that Mr. Earle, beyond the advocacy
of his views, did not mean to apply the word "insult" to Mr.
Hodgson.

Mr. EARLE said that Mr. Hodgson made use of expres-
sions which no man of common feelings could submit to.
Mr. lioncsoN.—Name the expressions.
Mr. EARLE.—Oh, they are numerous. I will name them
some time or other. (Cries of "name.") Well, they were
about Popery. (Cries of " order.")
Mr. HODGSON.—Anything insulting in that?
Mr. EARLE.— les ; telling us that we taught Popery when
we taught no such thing. That is insulting. (Cries of
" question.") It is the question. I ask the Mayor if it is
not an insult to tell us that we taught Popery ?

Mr. MOLLYNEUX.—It was the case ; fornot only was the
Douay version there, but also the Popish creed. (Hear.)
Mr. tARLE.—We did not teach it.
The MAYOR again interfered to restore order.
A COUNCILLOR here called out " order, order."

Mr. EARLE said, upon his honour he wished that gentle-
man could be sent to the Education Committee to be in-
structed, for it would be of great service to him. Mr.
Hodgson's abuse of the government might pass for what
people would take it ; but the fact was, the government were
now carrying out the education which he opposed.
Mr. PARKER agreed with Mr. Hodgson that the more
this question was agitated the more would Protestant prin-
ciples take root. It was glorious to contemplate how those
feelings had spread throughout the length and breadth of
the land, and if any thing could confirm those principles
it was the admirable speech delivered by the Mayor's brother,
at the opening of the Collegiate Institution. He was satis-
fied that Liverpool was a more Protestant community since
the opening of the Collegiate Institution than it was before.
He cared not whether the memorialists had these 20 Douay
Bibles or not, seeing that we had the glorious satisfaction of
finding protestant principles firmiy 'established in this
town ; and he trusted they would for ever be in the ascen-
dent.

Mr. BLACKBURN supported the prayer of the memorialist.
Mr. HOUGHTON suggested that there might be some legal
difficulty in the way of giving or selling the books; and it
was desirable perhaps that the Town-clerk should state his
opinions.

Mr. Eviovs said he proposed to buy them.
The TOWN-CLERK said he must apply to this case pre-
cisely the same law as he should apply to a case of £5,000
or £lO,OOO. The council certainly had no power, even with
the assent of the lords of the treasury, to give anything.
A grant for a trifling charge, or a nominal consideration, was
legally a transfer for money ; call it a sale if you pleased, but
substantially it was a grant, and whatever applied to a gift
applied to the transfer of property for a nominal considera-
tion ; therefore, in neither view proposed by the memorial
could this transaction be legally justified. There was ano-
ther way in which this property may be used, in answer to
the memorial, but that depended upon the considaration of
the council altogether, whether the use proposed to be made
of this property was for the public benefit of the inhabitants
or the improvement of the borough. That was a question
which rested with the council themselves. Of course, he
assumed, there would be no difficulty in the way of surplus
income ; but certainly as a gift it could not be justified, and
as a gift for a trifling consideration, it remained a gift, and it
could not be justified on that ground.
Mr. ATKIN said that one portion of the petition was, that
the books might be allowed to go by way of loan, or to be
hired out. He contended that there was no danger whatever
to hP apprehended from the circulation of 'the Douay Bible,
as it contained all that was necessary to salvation ; and the
objections made to it by scholiasts were too subtle to be com-
prehended by those among whom it was proposed to disperse
these copies:

Mr. Liu:LK-Err said Mr. Aikin had begged the whole ques-
tion, and' he had no right to strain the principle of charity
at the expense of truth. The Douav version was objected
to, not because it contained the truth, but on account of the
notes and comments which the Rdwish church had intro-
duced into it.

Mr. A. Smux, jun., without holding out the slightest
prospect of returning to the system adopted in the corpora-
tion schools prior to the conservative party gaining the as-
cendandy, could not see that he was doing anything wrong
in voting for Mr. Evans 's motion that these books be al-
lowed, so far as they could legally, for the use of the Roman
Catholic children: lie suggested that the Education Corn-
wittee, ShoUld fix the value of them. • "
Mr; LLOYD said Mr. Evans wawa great advocate for the
obserianee'of 'the standing (Shiers; yet he pressed 'his mo-
tionafter the opinion given by the Town-clerk that the pro-
position could not be entertained.

Mr. CoppEu.—As the q,uestiou is brought forward to try
the consistency of the let us go to the vote !
(Laughter.), _ .

said there was no abandonment of princi-
ple in voting that these books be given up ; and if it were
merely to get rid oldie application, be should say, if it could
be legally done, let the books by all means be granted.
Mr. Alderman TURNER defended the memorial from the
imputation of factious motives. _

lied, at great length.
Mr. Alderman EVANs then rep

The Towf-r. '-oi.ERK said the questfoli now arose, whether
the motion was in order. As put into his hands by Mr.
Evans, the motion stated, " That the memorial he referred
to the Finance Committee, to examine the number of Bibles,
as well as the number of Irish tracts, now in the Town-hall,

!ctive wants

motion the words " for an equivalent value."
Mr. HODGSON objected to the addition of these words, as
the debate had been closed.
The MAYOR said the change could only be made by per-
mission of the council.
The TOWN-CLERK added that if the alteration was allowed,
it must be upon the terms of the Whole subject being again
discussed.

A long and rather warm discussion followed on this point,
which ended in the council declining to allow the proposed
addition to be made; and immediately afterwards the coun-
cil divided upon Mr. Hodgson's amendment, that the prayer
of the memorial be rejected. The following was the result :
For the amendment . . 22
Against it

Majority for the amendment

The following is lie voting

For the an-iendlent.—Conncillors Shaw, Thompson,
North, S. Holum, Toulmin, J. Lawrence, Cooper, Birkett,
Procter, Lloyd, Kilshaw, Parker, Brassey, Plumpton, Shep-
pard, Harbord ; Aldermen Houghton, Griffith, Brancker,
Crook, Molyneux, and the Mayor-22.
Against the amendment.—Councillors Houghton, Thorn-
hill, Blackburn, Preston, H. Holmes, Aikin, Bushell, Platt,
Smith ; Aldermen Barclay, Earle, Turner, Freine, and
Evans-14.

After sortie discussion as to whether it was competent for
another amendment to be proposed,
Mr. AIKIN moved as an amendment upon Mr. Hodgson's
proposition, (now become the original motion,) that the sub-
ject be referred to the Finance Committee to grant the prayer
of the petition, if it could be granted legally, and if not, that
the books be sold under the direction, or disposed of as they
seem best.

Mr. EARLE seconded the amendment.
After a short debate the council divided on this question,
when there appeared,—

For the amendment
Against it

Majority against the amendment,

The following is the voting :
For the amendment.—Councillors—Houghton, Thornhill,
Blackburn, Preston, Aikin, Platt, Smith—Aldermen—Bar-
clay, Earle, Turner, Frerne, and Evans-12.
Against the amendment.—Councillors—Hodgson, Thomp-
son, North, S. Holme, Toultnin, Lawrence, Cooper, Birkett,
Bushell, Procter, Lloyd, Kilshaw, Parker, Brassey, Plump-
ton, Sheppard, Harbord—Aldermen—Houghton, Griffith,
Brancker, Crook, Molyneux, and the Mayor-23.
Mr. Hodgson's motion was therefore carried.