The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1848-09-19 00:00:00

LOCAL MEETINGS.

DOCK COMMITTEE, THURSDAY.—A tender of Messrs.
Logan and Co., for sixty fathoms of chain, for the use of
the light ships, was accepted.—A letter was read from Mr.
William Jellard, recently appointed dock master of
George's Dock, stating that, from inquiries he had made,
he was forty-three years of age, and being above the age
allowed by the Dock Trust, he tendered his resignation ;
he alleged that he had made sacrifices in the disposal of
his business, in order that he might take the situation.
The resignation was accepted.—A discussion took place
as to the documentary evidence produced by Mr. John
Ashton, relative to his age, but it was ultimately decided
to be quite satisfactory, and the appointment was con-
firmed, on a division, by a majority of ten to five.—The
expense of the police force for the quarter ending the 20th
of June last, upon which there was a balance due to the
Watch Committee of £llB6 18s., was ordered to be paid.
—A report as to some slight damage done to the new
landing stage by a flat, was referred to the solicitor. A
conversation arose on the subject, during which Mr.
Aikin said the pilots were about to present a memorial to
the effect that they .could not get into George's Dock
basin.—ln consequence of some difficulty as to supplying
the vessels in the new north docks with water, it was di-
rected that an application should be made to the Council
on the subject.

RATING OF THE DOCK AND CORPORATE
. ESTATES.
COUNCIL MEETING.

On Wednesday an adjourned meeting of the Council
was held at the Town-hall, for the purpose of considering
the propriety of rating the Dock and Corporate Estates
of Liverpool. There were upwards of fifty members in
attendance.

The TOWN-CLERK commenced the proceedings by
reading memorials from the inhabitants of the parish of
Liverpool, in special vestry assembled ; from the inhabi-
tants of Toxteth-park, and from the inhabitants of Kirk-
dale, in public meeting assembled, praying that the
Council will, conjointly with the parochial authorities,
adopt the necessary means for rendering the Corporate
and Dock Estates contributory to the local rates of the
parish.
_ _

Mr. SAMUEL HOLME submitted a motion, to the effect
that all property vested in the Trustees of the Liverpool
Docks, should be made to pay local rates, and that an
application be made to Parliament by the Council and
parochial authorities conjointly, for the purpose of secu-
ring these objects. He commenced by observing, that
he was alone animated by motives for the public good in
submitting the motion, and that the time seemed fairly
to have arrived when the Dock Estate ought to contribute
its fair proportion to the public burdens. He was aware
of the formidable opposition he would have to encounter,
but, though he might be defeated, speedy victory must
attend his exertions. The question divided itself into
three parts :—first, ought the docks to contribute their
fair proportion to our local taxes ? Second,—could they
bear that proportion without injury to the commerce of
this widely-extended port ? Third.—was it not an act of
justice to the parishioners that they should bear their fair
proportion ? He proceeded to reply at great length to
these several questions. It was said the docks gave im-
mense employment, though they might draw large num-
bers of paupers here ; but the distinction to be drawn was
this—that when the tradesman created paupers he had to
support them, while the Dock Committee contributed
nothing to their support. Then, the Dock Committee
were a public trading body, employing thousands of arti-
zans ; and if they went on, they would become like the
rod of Aaron, swallowing up all the trades of the town.
The foundation for the discussion of this great question
was laid at the time that the first dock warehouse was
built. Besides, the principle of taxing the dock ware-
houses had already been admitted by Parliament in the
case of the Albert Dock Warehouses. It was said that
Manchester would object to the rating of the Dock Es-
tate, but did Manchester object at the time the Albert
Dock Warehouses were subjected to rates ?
Mr. NlcoL.—They did.
Mr. HoLatE said that, although Manchester might have
objected, the rating clause was carried in parliament.
And supposing Manchester to object now, would Man-
chester maintain our poor? (Hear, hear.) He then con-
tended that laying taxes upon the docks would not in-
crease the dock rates. These rates had repeatedly been
reduced with the best effect ; and as to the injury likely
to be done to the port if local taxes were imposed, he
could not believe it, for the geographical position of Liver-
pool would ever command p trcwendous trade. How ab-
... 4 tr, to state that Liverpool would be injured be-
cause a tax of a half-penny on a bale of cotton for the
local taxes was imposed ?, He contended that the burges-
ses and the Corporation estate had been vastly injured by
the erection of dock warehouses ; and in fact the Dock
Committee were the antagonists of the tradesmen of the
town. Let the Council recollect that there were at this
moment 4000 empty houses in Liverpool, and that thou-
sands were going over to reside at Birkenhead and other
places in Cheshire. If the Council refused to carry the
question now, the places of the present members would
be supplied by other men, and speedy retribution would
follow, for he would not, in that case, regret to see the
government selling the docks to private companies. (Oh !)
Mr. HARBORD seconded the resolution.

Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE opposed it. He denied that
the Dock Committee were a trading body or a company.
They gave their services gratuitously, never pocketing a
single shilling in the shape of dividends; and if they em-
ployed smiths and coopers they paid them well, and only
employed the artizans of Liverpool. If the pecuniary
difficulties of the country continued, the Dock Estate
could not pay the local taxes without raising the Dock
rates ; and to raise the rates would be to injure the town
and the port. Look at Bristol ! Bristol was freeing its
docks from rates, and the consequence had been, that
Bristol was drawing commerce to the Severn (hear, hear.)
The management of the Deck Estate was confined to the
Dock Committee, and he contended strongly, from the
6th of Geo. IV. that the Council had no power whatever
to originate any new matter which would affect the
management of that estate. The Dock Committee was
not a committee of the Council, and the dock ratepayers
were not represented in the Council. He reminded
the Council that the Birkenhead docks and the river
Weaver were exempt from all rates and taxes ; and why
the Liverpool Docks should be taxed he could not, by
any possibility, understand ; for if Liverpool were alto-
gether free from dock rates the shopkeepers would all be
materially benefitted. He had no doubt that if ever a
bill should be submitted to parliament to rate the docks,
that bill would never be permitted to pass, and the trust
would be taken altogether out of the hands of the Dock
Committee, arid Liverpool would then be made as close a
borough as Gattan and old Sarum, for the government
would have an amount of patronage perfectly unexampled.
And supposing the government to become the possessors
of the docks, would the government pay the local rates ?
Never.

Mr. PARKER said he had never heard a lamer speech
than the one Mr. Moore had addressed to the Council.
The Council were trustees for the benefit of the public,
and they were now called upon to make an equitable ad-
justment of taxation in the town ; and so sure as the
docks were docks, he felt convinced that this equitable
adjustment would and must take place. He cared no-
thing for the threat about government taking the Liver-
pool docks, for the principle that every inch of land within
the borough should bear its fair proportion of taxation
was a principle of common honesty and fair justice.
Mr. Nicol, said that three-fourths of the revenues of
the docks were spent in Liverpool, and yet one-half of
•the dock rates were paid by the merchants of the town ;
and when railways and other works were lately standing
still, had not the Dock Committee afforded constant em-
ployment to thousands of the poorer classes ? (hear.)
He observed that the whole of the complaints made in
the course of the discussion were referable to the dock
warehouses, which already paid rates, and not to the
docks ; and now if the docks were rated, how could any
further reduction of dock rates take place ? It was the
law of the land that the docks should not be rated ; and,
therefore, if the whole town of Liverpool were to advocate
the imposition of rates upon them, parliament must in
the end be consulted. Government would take posses-
sion of the estate, and Scotch and Irish nominees would
be sent here to manage it, and these nominees would
have no sympathies either with the Corporation or rate-
payers.

Mr. BENNETT supported the motion in a speech of
some length, in the course of which he observed, that the
docks brought vast numbers of paupers to Liverpool,
who, when winds prevailed adverse to the influx of ves-
sels, invariably fell upon the parish for support.
Mr. RATHBONE opposed the motion, though he admit-
ted he might be thereby " driving a nail in his coffin,"
next November.

Mr. HUGH HORNBY made a very effective speech in
support of the motion, and, in the course of it, said that
Mr. Moore had told them that it was the duty of the
Council to oppose the present attempt on the part of the
parish; but he (Mr. Hornby) bad always imagined that
the Council ought to be the reflex of the opinions of the
parishioners. If properly elected, they ought to repre-
sent their opinions; and if they were so diametrically
opposed to the opinions of their constituents as Mr.
Moore would make them, then they were very improper
representatives indeed. (Hear.) He (Mr. Hornby)
warned the Council that unless they consulted the inte-
rests of their constituents, they would very shortly find
the Council very differently constituted to what it was at
present, for then the management of the affairs of the
town would be taken out of the hands of the present men.
Might it not occur to the ratepayers that although the
merchants of Liverpool were very intelligent and enlight-
ened men, yet many of them came here from a distance,
that they resided here a few years, amassed fortunes, and
then went away ; and that their interest was to consult
their own personal advantage, and not to care very much
about the interests of the town of Liverpool? It might
occur to the burgesses that it was safer to place their
affairs in the hands of those who had the interests of the
town more at heart; and though it was desirable that a

number of merchants should be in the osuncil, yet they
could only remain there by studiously consulting the in-
terests of the town.

A very long debate followed, in which Mr. Robinson,
Mr. Hodgson, Mr. Cooper, and Mr. T. Lloyd supported
the motion ; and Mr. Mann, Mr. G. H. Lawrence, Mr.
Shand, Mr. Evans, and Mr. Aikin opposed it.
Mr. S. HOLISE replied ; and at half-past three o'clock
the Council divided, when there appeared—For the mo-
tion, 28 ; against it, 23; majority, 5.
The motion in favour of rating the docks was accord-
ingly carried by a majority of five. The following mem-
bers voted in the division :—For it,—Messrs. Walthew,
Thomson, Woodruff, Preston, Hill, Littledale, Hornby,
Henderson, ' Robinson, Toulmin, Harbord, Rogers, S.
Holme, Booker, Reade, Kaye, Gardner, Danson, Ben-
nett, Parker, Booker, Jones, and Lloyd, Councillors ;
Hodgson, J. Lawrence, Cooper, Procter, and Bent, Al-
dermen. Against it,—Messrs. Shand, Rathbone, Evans,
Tyrer, G. H. Horsfall, Aikin, Steward, Tinne, Rimmer,
Royden, Tobin, Plumpton, G. H. Lawrence, Benn, and
Mann, Councillors ; Swainson, Nicol, Bramley-Moore,
Wood, Molyneux, Turner, and Chilton, Aldermen ; and
the Mayor.