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.
Now none of these were blameable ap.
,ey were all appointments of partisans.

Lord BowicK appealed to the
for admissions of the exi-''
nose eneeches suggested no remedy
ont of ,ffice had spoken without d

speeches of Ministers
log evils, of which, however,
And yet no man

those sr

ring the opinion

The present

n Ireland, and t

ation connected with

them, were subjects of the deepest alarm ; not because
the meetings themselves were immediately mischievous,
but because they excited and diffused bad feeling among a
whole people. You must conquer their affections if you
would have Ireland secure. He argued.that repeal meant

n meant war, and that war be-
fore separation was better than after it. Something was
necessary, and the government, who ought to be the lead-
ers, shrank from proposing it ; he would, therefore, sub
suit the results of his own reflection. The causes of evil
in Ireland were chiefly two—the distress of the people as
connected with the occupation of land ; and the circum-
stances arising from the relative positions of the Protes-
tants and Catholics. The distress was not only severe but
babitu and it naturally disposed the sufferers to politi-
cal movement. The capabilities of the country, and the
qui.ties of the people, were such as ought to produce
prosperity, and why was it not obtained? British capital
was not wanting for any enterprise that promised a return;
but the reason why that capital was not converted to the
benefit of Ireland was, the want of security. The tenant
was deterred from improvement by the uncertainty of
his holding ; and that uncertainty led to agrarian outrage.
Some arrangements for valuations between landlord and
tenant might be introduced by law; but, moreover, some
means ought to be provided for employing industrious
persons in other labour than that of the land The best
thing that ministers could now do would be to consent to
a resolution for taking into consideration the whole state
of Ireland; that as soon as the prorogation should take
place they should digest and mature the measures neces-
sary for that country ; and, that, early in the winter,
Parliament should be re-assembled for the purpose of
deliberating upon them.

Mr. GALL KNIGHT doubted whether, in the state in
which the late ministers had left the finances of the
country, the Chancellor of the Exchequer could find it
possible to produce the money for the purposes proposed
by the noble lord. Ile was quite sure that the English
people would never consent to the demolition of the Pro-
testant Church in Ireland, and that any such attempt not
only would cost a minister his place, but, if persisted in,
would cost a monarch his crown. But he admitted that
a provision ought to be made for the Roman Catholic

Lord JOCELYN desired to have it remembered, that
the Protestant religion, though it was the faith but of the
minority in Ireland, was the faith of the majority in that
aggregate empire of which Ireland was a part. The state
of Ireland, agrarian and general, had been improving
when the present disturbance began : and it was painful
to see those benefits arrested in their progress by such a
clause.
The debate was then adjourned.

---.-.-....,ep..----

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TuzsDAy

The adjourne,' debate on the motion of
O'BRIEN was resumed by

Mr. W. S

Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, who commented on the policy
pursued towards Ireland, and on the present position of
the conservatives with respect to that country.
After the House had been addressed by Mr. Smythe,
Mr. Hawes, Mr. Colquhoun, Mr. S. Crawford, Mr.
Bateson, Mr. Ross, Mr. Milnes, and Mr. Roebuck,
Sir R. PEEL said he did not believe that the hon. gen-
tleman who had opened the debate had any idea of enter-
ing into a solemn inquiry into the state of Ireland, but
that his real object was, by carrying his motion, to de-
clare that the house had no confidence in the present mi-
nistry. It was quite impossible that Ireland could benefit
by the repeal of the union in a pecuniary point of view,
considering the establishments which she must then of
necessity maintain. At present Ireland paid no assessed
taxes, and in a recent crisis had escaped the property tax,
to which the rest of the kingdom was subjected. The
expense of the Post-office was also borne on this side of
the water, and he was surprised under such circumstances
that it could be supposed that Ireland was not benefitted
in a pecuniary point of view by the union. With respect
to the patronage of the Irish church, he read a letter to
the Lord-Lieutenant, leaving him at liberty to dispose of
church preferment in that country according to the result
of his inquiries, as to the professional merits of the parties,
and intimating that it was necessary for the benefit of the
Irish church that this principle should be acted upon, and
that he was willing to foregoe all parliamentary influence
rather than act upon any other principle. This letter
was written in 1841, at a time when he little thought he
should be ever called upon to read it in that house in self
defence. Upon the subject of education the right hon.
baronet defended the course pursued by the government,
and in reference to the distribution of government ap-
pointments he could assure the house that he never asked
a man's country or religion when considering his fitness
for office, in proof of which he referred to the appoint-
ment of the commissioners of metropolitan police, both
of whom were Irishmen. In the same way when he
selected three sculptors to erect statues in Greenwich
Hospital to three of our naval heroes, two out of the three
were Irishmen, a fact he was not aware of until afterwards,
when he saw an attack made upon him in a public journal
for extending undue favour to the people of Ireland. These
were distinctions which should not be entertained, and he
hoped they would never be revived. With respect to the
construction of railways, he had some doubt of the pro-
priety of taxing one part of the country for the benefit
of the other, unless there was a certainty that the
railway would become profitable, for otherwise it would
only give a stimulus for the moment followed by a
greater state of depression than that which it was
intended to remedy. In reply to an observation of Lord
Howick's, he said that the Roman Catholics now en-
joyed equal civil rights as the other subjects of the crown,
and that the oaths were so altered that the offensive por-
tions relating to transubstantiation were abolished. With
respeet to the franchise, he would remind the house that
they had come into power as was said with a large ma-
jority, but that majority had not been applied to the pass-
ing of a registration bill or to any other measure which
could be said to be unjust to Ireland. He was called upon
by the honourable member for Bath to give a pledge to
abolish the Established Church of Ireland, and if he be-
lieved that public necessity required it he would not hesi-
tate to recommend that the law respecting that Church
should be modified, but he believed nothing of that sort,
and he was quite prepared to refuse any such pledge, even
if his refusal should lead to his loss of power. If they
proposed to make the Catholic and Protestant religion
equal in every respect they should not only take seven-
eighths of the ecclesiastical revenues, but they must give
up several of the edifices of the Established Church. (Se-
veral members on the opposition side—" Certainly.")
But that was not all, for in order to have perfect equality
they must either have Catholic bishops in the House of
Lords or else exclude from thence the bishops of the Es-
tablishment. Thus they would perceive that the measure
suggested by several hon. members was much more exten-
sive than they imagined. When Catholic emancipation
was conceded, it was said that the concession would
strengthen the position of the Established Church, and
he trusted the Catholics would not forget the pledges to
that effect given by the eminent men who advocated their
cause. Confident that they would act upon those pledges,
be thought it safer not to interfere at all with any portion
of the ecclesiastical revenues. He did not therefore think
i t right to make this concession to the people of Ireland,
nrl if t‘ilhlin ;El that hnii2p

be in favour of
e more advantE

rried into effect by ()then
The right honourable

nion would
, in less tT

La t?y pow

the full extent of their ability,

but it was sufficient to adopt the necessary measures of
precaution until they found moderation unavailing. The
right hon. baronet sat down amidst very general cheer-
ing.
Lord J. RlTssEtt. said he bad heard the speech of Sir
R. Peel with dissatisfaction, although he thought he was
right in not allowing himself to be hurried into coercive
measures by the advice of irresponsible parties. He In-
sisted upon it that the people of Ireland had not the same
rights as the people of England, and he thought Sir J.
Graham and Sir R. Peel had quibbled with the question
as far as it related to the franchise. The right hon.
baronet had taken credit to himself for not using his ma-
jority in order to carry Lord Stanley's Registration Bill,
and he used the remarkable words that he bad not made
use of it to perpetrate injustice to Ireland, by which ex-
pressions he affirmed that the bill was an act of injustice
and implied that it had been only mooted t

or party
purposes while the late Government was in office. He
was of opinion that they ought not to abolish the Esta-
blished Church of Ireland, but he would say that they
ought to raise the Catholic bishops and clergy to a footing
of equality, and that principle he should be prepared to
follow out to all its consequences. He knew that there
would be difficulty in carrying such an arrangement into
effect, for the catholic clergy were opposed to connection
with the state.

Mr. BLEWITT moved the adjournment of the debate.—
The motion was agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDNESDAY.
The debate on the alleged Irish grievances was resumed
by Mr. Sergeant MURPHY, and after Lord BERNARD,
Sir H. W. BARROW and two or three other members had
spoken,

Lord PALMERSTON said, what were the views of go-
vernment he defied any man to infer from their speeches.
They were no doubt distracted and paralysed by contrary
impulses—not only from their friends out of doors, but
even in the cabinet itself. He had said a little while ago,
that if ministers should resign their places, the country
mould call upon them to return ; but he had lately seen
ground to change that opinion, and he felt bound as a
gentleman and a mart honour to sav so, that he might not
mislead them into a resignation. He did not think that
repeal was a question which ministers would have to con-
sider; he rather thought that repeal was a cry conventionally
adopted by the people to express their grievances. The
only point upon which ministers had held out the chance
of a remedy was the law of landlord and tenant; and
most happy should be be to co-operate with them on such
a subject. On the greatest evil of all, the relative position
of the Protestants and Roman Catholics, not the slightest
alleviation was intimated. The present amount of esta-
blishment was capable of being considerably reduced; and
as Lord Stanley had been the author of the Church
Temporalities Bill. there could be no objection by him,
or his colleague, Sir J. Graham, to the principle of re-
duction. In point of justice, perhaps, the Catholics could
not complain of the Protestant establishment; but, con-
sidering the state of their own church, could you expect
that they would not? He would say, therefore, suspend
those livings in which there is no duty to be performed.
But if you would not abate the Protestant church, put
that of the Catholics upon a level with it, authorize the
possession of glebe-houses, by voluntary gift, perhaps with
some aid from the state. The amount of the establish-
ment at Maynooth, too, was far below its proper line
Austria, P

, savant+, Belgium, rrussia—each made provision
from the funds of the state for more than one denomina-
tion of clergy. He condemned the scanty allotment of
the parliamentary, and the too high amount of the mu-
nicipal, franchise. Under all these difficuties, here was
a government unprepared with any remedy. They were
content, in office, as out of it, to obstruct. He hoped,
at all events, that nothing would be said from the treasury
benches to strike the Irish people with despair, and that
before another session, measures would be matured for
satisfying the just expectations of that nation.

Lein] STANLEY declined to adopt the suggestions of
Mr. Muntz and Mr. Ferrand, who had required the
government, not only to make declarations respecting
Ireland, but to point out remedies for all the evils in all
the British dominions. He had read this motion as
charging the government with insensibility to the grie-
vances of Ireland, and with indisposition to do her justice;
but the speech which had introduced it was a speech
upon the general state of Ireland, and against past, as
well as present, administrations; so that the precise drift
of the motion itself was not now very easy to be defined.
Some gentlemen called upon the government to exercise
the energy of Strafford, others forbade them to take any
strong measure at all. The government had been charged
with intending nothing on the subject of parliamentary
franchise ; whereas, at an earlier period of this very ses-
sion, they had announced their intention to enlarge that
franchise, upon the basis of the new valuation contem-
plated in the Irish Poor Law Amendment Bill; but the
working of that valuation must be seen before such en-
largement of franchise could be prudently enacted.
Then, on the subject of the Irish Church, what was
desired ? No five of the members opposite could agree ;
but some had said boldly, " Abolish the intrusive church
of the minority ;" and Lord Palmerston had asked how
Lord Stanley could object to the principle of a farther
reduction in its revenues? Why, it was the very point
upon which he had resigned his seat in the whig cabinet.
He admitted that a high-minded man would abandon
office rather than sacrifice important principles ; but he did
not think it would become such a man to abandon his office
and his principle together. What the prospoal of equal-
izing the two religions meant, he did not understand. Did
it mean au equal, or did it mean a proportirnate division
of the Protestant revenues between the Protestant and.
Catholic clergy ? And to what result would your equa-
lity lead? Why, to place in the House of Lords a Roman
Catholic prelacy, not nominated by the Crown of England
but by the Court of Rome; for Mr. Moore O'Ferrall
himself had declared in this debate that the Roman Cath
olic clergy would rot accept a stipend from the nation, cit
the terms of permitting any interference with their civil
state. The law of landlord and tenant was a difficult
subject; and he acknowledged that if the Irish landrords,
as a class, dealt with their tenants otherwise than the
landlords of England, a case was made out for the inter-
ference of the Legislature. To a Committee, however,
of mere inquiry into the law of landlord and tenant, the
Goverment would have made no objection. He should
be sorry to have it thought that either this or former gov-
ernments had neglected the welfare of Ireland. A com-
mittee, of which Mr. Spring Rice was chairman, had
recommended nineteen different measures ; eighteen of
them had since been actually passed into law ; and if the
house would continue its confidence he would not despair
that, by forbearance from extreme measures, and a sted-
fast perseverance in a careful and vigilant policy, the
government would be able to conduct the country through
its dangers; but if, through the course taken by certain
gentlemen who sate on his own side of the house, and who
had some of them hinted, and some of them avowed,
their want of confidence, the government were to be addi-
tionally embarrassed and impeded, the question of confi-
dence or no confidence could not too soon be brought to
issue, in order that the Ministers, if distrusted by parlia-
ment, might at once make way for others more fit to direct
the councils of the country.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN having replied,
The house divided.
For the Committee..
Against it
Majority against it -78
The house afterwards adjourned at half-past two o'clock.