The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-02-24 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDA

a source, but on the contrary that the opposition is to be rested.
on a great public principle. (Tremendous cheering from the
opeositiou benches.) I shall content myself by resting his
claims on the goad sense of the house, and on the known inte-
grity, talent, and 'courtesy With which he has tainducted its
business hitherto. The noble lord whom I believe I may salute
as the intended leader of this house-onm' cheers from the
opposition) whether self-elected(reiterated cheers from the
ministerial henches)—or whether eulisted under the banuerts of
the opposition—amid the clash of weapons, and party strife,
I do not know; but it appears he is to be the champion
of the party over whom one shout alone predominates,
decidedly the shout of a populace,• which as vet has
been so obscured, that I am left to conjecture abuut its origin ;
but which has been promu!gatedon the hustings to admiring
constituents —the principle of condemnation 'without trial.—
.(Cheers -from the ministerial benches,- re-echoed by the opposi-
tion.) If this be the principle which is to flash cunytctiou on
the doubting, to fix the waverer, and to reinstate the phalanx
which by •vatious accidents has been somewhat disbanded, I
trust those hon. gentlemen who support that principle will be
able to speak to this house, and to carry that principle into
effect without violation of their own consistency, and within the
spirit of the principle which on the last occasion they raised
very eloquent voices to combat and repudiate; namely, to re-
pudiate political considerations, and the estimation of political
opinions on the individual who was to be called to the, chair;
but to set aside ad other considerations of talent,, fitness, abi-
lity, experience, and even of what may be new to the ear of
some gentletnen, considerations of public utility. Before I con-
clude the observation I have taken the liberty of addressing to
the house upon the mo ion which I have to make, I beg to
express my confidence that I have avoided any expression which
may appear to be clothed with disrespect to any gentleman who
has been named by public report as a candidate for the office.
With regard to the hou. gentleman who is likely, as we under-
stand, to to be proposed to this house as speaker, certainly, what-
ever may be the opinion entertained by this house, or by his
friends, he is, at leasts so far superior to me in every respect,
and commands the deference of this house in such a -manner,
that it would very ill become me ever to queStion his fitness for
that office in any one particular; and I beg to express to him
that honest feeling of respect and deference which I will not say
he himself might expect, but the nicest sensibility of his friends
may consider to be due. l should have been more content,
however, if a task so honourable and .so completely consonant
with my feelings, that of proposing my right hon. friend for the
chair,. had faller) into worthier, and into hands perhaps more ex-
empt from the suspiciow of. private partiality. I havesthe sa-
tisfaction, however, of knowmglhat my execution of this duty,
however imperfect, or however unsatisfactory it may have heen
to myself, will not lie unsatisfactory to a large majority-of a
greataamstitueticy that has Sent me here:. ( Hear,' hear:) At
all events, I am satisfied that if the occasion ever arrive, on
Which I shall have to answer at the bar of offended Public opi
nion for any errors in judgment or feeling, or any incapacity, I
trust that this will be the first occasion and the last on which
those who blame me will fix. ( Hear, hear.) I beg to conclude
with moving that the Right Honourable Sir Charles Manners
Sutton du take the chair. (Loud cheers.) • -
Sir CHARLES BURRELL then rose and said—l do riot hesi-
tate to offer myseifas the seconder of the motion which has been
proposed; but I should hesitate to detain the house with a
lengthened speech, after the very eloquent one of the noble
lord,. Though differing, In some respects, with the right hon.
gentleman whom he has proposed, I beg to express my convic-
tion of his superiority over every other member of this house to
become its chairman, without meaning to disparage any one,
or that other right hon. gentleman, for whom I entertain the
highest respect. What lam about to do I do from firm per-
suasion. 1 had the honour to second his nomination in the
year 1817, and from that time until the present I have noticed
Ins candour, his efficiency, and his impartiality. (Hears) With
these feelings I should do injustice to him, and to my own cha-
racter, it' 1 satisfied myself with giving a silent vote on this oc-
casion. (Hear, hear.) The house, then, will be justified in
supporting this motion, as it was justified in electing' him be-
fore, by the attention, ability, and efUciency which the right
hon. gentleman has displayed. Under such circumstances, I
trust the house will reflect- before they decide, and the noble
lord has rightly observed, that we are assembled unJer very pe-
culiar circumstances. •But under any circumstances, we want
a man Whose knowledge and talent will assist us in the business
of the house, and no man can be inure fitted fur the chair, and
to expedite the business than one who has had so mueh.practice,
and before whom no gentleman, however excellent his charac-
ter, or however fair his pretensions, can on that account be pre-
ferred. I therefore most cordially assent to the- inn' on of 'the
noble lord, and will not detain the house longer, febiing that
anything I could add would be superfluous.
Mr. DENISON then rose.—He said, I eau assure the house
that it is with great reluctance I rise to trespass upon its atten-
tion, and nothing but an imperious sense of duty could induce
me to come forward at the present important crisis—at a period
in which the public mind is so much excited, and when the
eyes, not only of tins country and of Europe, but of the whole
civilized world, are directed to our proceedings. In a great
psrt of what has fallen from the noble lord, (Egerten,) %%hose
appearance in this house I am happy to observe, I fully concur,
nor do I object to much that has been expressed by the hon.
baronet who seconded the motion, in all they have stated re-
specting the qualities of the right hon. gentleman, the member
for Cambridge, respecting all the virtues of his private charac-
ter, and respecting the dignified manner in which be demeaned
himself while in the chair of this house. (Hear, hear, and
Cheers.) But this is not a question of personal characteT—it is
one iu which a great public principle is involved—(checsrs, and
laughter from the ministerial side,)—and however the noble
ford may sneer at public! principle I trust the house will not
despise it. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord has thrown more
asperity into the debate than, iu my opinion, is required ;'
and although he has leaped his light courser beyond' bound,
I will not now imitate his example. It is, I repeat; on the
assertion of a great public principle that I rise to trespass on
the attention of the house, called upon, as it now is, to decide
upmm a question in which the interests of thousands are involved.
His Majesty, in the exercise of his undoubted right; dissolved
`the .himitismatliumeut; t#ie pe,le responded to the call, Awl have_
returned a majority of rireselitatives steadily .attachelr CO the
great principles of the reform bill. (Cheers.) 'With all respect
for the talents and character' Of the right hon. the tnetnbar for
the University of Cambridge, I think it incumbent instills house
that a gentleman be' placed in the chair, the highest situation
to which any commoner can aspire—the representative of the
greatest assemblage in the universe should be assimilated in
principle to the majority of the members over whom he presides,
NVe must, in deciding. this question, take into consideration the
measures which the right hon. baronet at the head of his Ma-
jesty's government proposes to bring before the house. In the dis-
cussion of corporation reform—the bill for the relief of the
dissenters—the motion of the hon. member for St. Alban's; and
of that crying of all grievances, the state of the Irish church—
in the discussion as to the dismissal of the Melbourne adrainis-
tration. unheard and without a trial—withis it that trial which
the right hon. baronet and his friends around' him are so sedu-
lous in demanding, forgetting the principle of " do as you wish
to he done by"---in the debate which must take place on the
nurecedentedassumption of the reins of government, for three
weeks, by one individual, who however high in station or re-
nownd for his military achievements abroad, should have been
deterred from such a hazardous undertaking—in all these dis-
cussions it will be incumbent on the house to have a gentleman
in the chair, who, acting with impartiality and dienity, will agree
with the majority of the house. But a tune may arrive when a
difference of opinion with the other house may take place. In
such an emergency it would be requisite to have a gentleman in
the chair whose sentiments will be perfectly identified with the
principles of the reform bill. In rising to propose the right
houourable the member for Edinburgh, as he is at present, I
cannot say all I think respecting him, but this I must say, that
there is no gentleman, in Inv opinion, of all those whom I have
the honour to see around me, more qualified than be is to fill
the chair, whether I regard the uniform consistency of his po-
litical character—his amiable manners—his long parliamentary
experience, or his profound legal knowledge, combining, as he
does, a good temper with a clear head, as evinced in many long
and trying debates, professing, too, the great principles'of the
reform bill—with such opinions I flatter myself that all the gen-
tlemen that I have no* the honour to address who supported
the reform bill, or who on the hustings avowed themselves sup.
porters of it, nut only in fetter, but in spirit, I hope that all such
will support the motion with which I shall conclude, viz., to
put, as t said before, into the first station to which a commoner
can aspire, the representative of the greatest assembly in the
universe, time Right Him. James Ahercromby. (The right hon.
'gentleman sat down anmitistfotel cheering-)
111 r. On DE then rose to second the nomination which bacllieen
made. Ile said, it rs with great reluctance that I now trespass
upon the time of the house, but I trust that the occasion witl be
my apology. (Cheers.) I feel a deeper degree of regret when
I have to oppose the election of
a gentleman whose public ser-
vices I must acknowledge. (Cheering.) lam as willing; as any
one to acknowledge those services, but I think that this is an
occasion when private ce,inion must give way to public duty.
The choice of a, Speaker is not a mere local question, -as the ,
noble lord has said. The question is one looked et bs al! per-
sons, not only of this country but of others—it is not 'looked at
as a (pestle', of a personal nature, but very justly as a proof of
what the parliament really is. (Cheers.) The question most
frequently asked-is, if the right lien. gentleman was fitted to fill
the situation of Speaker in the last parliament, why is he not
now—what has rendered him unfit to preside over the present
one? Into those questions I will not follow the noble lord—
they have been disposed of by my hon.- friend who has proposed
the amendment. (Cheers.) The" only answer lean give Nethat
is, that the times. have changed (cheers); the times and eiTeurn-
stances, have totally changed since the election of the 5i4,4115-hon,
gentleman. It was generally understood then that the right
hon. gentleman had retired ; he had his retiring pension fixed
—(cheers)—so that there can be no parallel drawn between the
present circumstances and those which actuated the members
of the last parliament. Then the question was not a test of po-
litical parties, as it is nos. (Great cheering.) The whole coun-
try now looks at the present question as one which will decide
the question to which their whole attention is directed. His
Majesty, who was advised to appeal to the sense of the people
and the country, wi:l he very much dissatisfied if the reply to
that appeal should be—the vesy first vide of this house. is to
place in the chair one whose opinions are not in accordance •
with the opinions of the great majority of the hhuse. lam ob-
liged to oppose the election oft he late Sneaker on these grutinds
—he would not be the • representative of the house—would nut
lie the real organ of the huuse. My hon. friend, whose nomina-
tion I sin about to second, has this qualification, that he will be
triumph,tl(l ,f is
a electionparty, twill m
in reality the organ of the house, his opinions being iu accord-
ance with those of the majority of the house.
be received y the country as the triumph, 1
t
of a great public principle. (Great cheering.) Such are the
grounds upon which I support the nomination of the right hon.
member for Edinburgh to till the chair of this house. It is with
great pleasure that I second the nomination of the Right thin.
James Abercromby to the 'chair of this house, (Great cheering.)
Sir C. SuTToN then rise. He said he was aware that he
owed au apology—an excuse to the house, for intruding him-
self upon them. Ile was so circumstanced Iha,i the house, alter
heaiiug what he had to say, must form their own judgment.
Ile would not, for he could not, say one word in disparage-
ment, of the right bun. gentietnan, the member for the city of
. Edinburgh. I.le had waited writhing order all the charges that
hid been heaped upon him, knowing that the peeper place to
give an answer to the charges was the their of' that house,
and he trusted the house would hear him,- for he would
that I a,isted t hNe
,t).a,ttir),,,rl;•
Ireuenlett
speak without asperity. ( Hear.) The charge against me in
the
a certain extent,
the abstract is; that, being a speaker, 1 busied myself in other
matters ;
•I rv, and counselled and advised th
these e ,11)iasis.toilcuutii:Itilyoaffft,lie.tilliligt.eitgaos-
virnment. (hear, hear.)
points
at
iffie'e estpi
enagk Try
,pr public
heohui,,srea,c
ter,
he in-
debted to the existing geverninent, and would, therefore, be
guilty of leuding a band to the ektinction of that body is hich
had given him the proud pre-eminence lie filled. Now
there is
ntooteaotniei °wllmco:da'inmfdttroutehverritYmmulbeesttiti.ituhrusge;:m4edurigde.; reply,(Lett
all,
ust cheers.)
Sir, with respect to my having been mixed up with other inaf-
ters, allow the to explain that as soon after the prorogation of
the last parliament as the remaining public bUsitiess which re-
mained to be disposed of would allow me, I went int) the
count' y with my family; and it will be remembered that at that
time his Majesty was also at Brighton. But I remained there
without any communicatieu, directly or indirectly, with any
member of the government until 1 was called to London, by ex-
press, upon the occasion of the lamentable fire which happened.
([leer.) I came to London as quickly as -pussible, and, after

•
• .
witnessing the devastation Which had occurred, it was suggest-
ed to me, and I instantly adopted the suggestion, that it was
my duty to acquaint his elajesty of it. With the permission
of the house, 1 will stale e'esso terms in which 1 wrote to the
'• Ihe Speaker feels it his dutEto acquaint his Majesty, that,
having heard at Brighton early this morning that the two
Houses of Parliamenteand the house in which, by his gracious
Majesty's perinisSion, he lived, were on fire, he lost no time in
coming up to London, and the Speaker regrets to state that
both .Houses of Parliament are entirely destroyed, nothing
being left standing hut the walls. A portion of the Speaker's
house is also consumed, and the domestic part entirely de-
stroyed. Some of the public offices have also suffered the same
fate, and others have been much damaged, but most of the pub-
lic papers therein deposited have been saved. The Speaker
regrets to add, that Westminster Hall was also in imminent
danger, and was injured in several parts. The Speaker trusts
his Majesty will pardon the liberty he has taken in forwarding
this communication."
Sir, having written this letter, I carried it myself to the Se-
cretary of Stee for the Home Department. I- sate the Under
Secretary. file Principal, Secretary being at that time out of
town, 1 told hiin I bad written this letter to his Majesty, sod
requested him to send it by a special messenger to the Kluges
and to acquaint Lord Melbourne with the object of my visit.
In the course of that evening I received a letter informing me
that his Majesty had arrived in town, and desired my attend-
anee at St. James's Palace. At two o'clock I reeeived another
letter desiring to see me before the morning. I also receit ed
a letter stating that his Majesty had received my report, and
enclosing another letter, in which his Majesty made some sug-
gestions as to the nrode of accommodating the parliament. I
went and saw Lord Melbourne, and told him I had received an
answer to my letter, and informed him of the contents; and I
also particularly requested him to observe the object I had in
view. I had received a letter from Lurd Melbourne requesiing
to see me. I never missed a .single day's attendance, and I
was a party teethe report emanating from the Privy Council,
relative to the destruction of the two houses. At the next
meeting I attended I inquired if his Majesty had any com-
mands for use, and was informed that his Majesty had not ex-
pressed anything of the kind. On the day following I received
a letter from sir H. Taylor, stating that his Majesty had coin-
tnanded me to go down to Windsor, and be there at five
o'clock, I had a mug au4enee of his Majesty, and at its con-
clusion I requested his Majesty's permission to communicate
to Lord Melbourne everythiteg.that had occurred. - I dud not
request permission to state it to this house, and therefore I do
not feel myself at liberty to do so. (Hear, hear.) But I refer
to Lord Melbourne, to the Right Hots. Gent. himself, and to the
noble lord who presided over the Woods and Forests, for the
,e.ruth of this statement. I returned on Saturday from Wind-
',Sot., and his majesty proceeded to Brighton. When I returned
to London, I showed to the right hon. gentleman that I had
his majesty's commands to wait upon him, and to snake a sur-
vey of the ruins and gardens of the late Houses; and the right
hon. gentleman will recollect that 1 went over the Houses
and gardens, and the report was then drawn up. But before
that report was forwarded by me to his majesty, I submitted it
to Lord Melbourne and to the right hon, gentleman, and then
I dispatched it. Subsequent to that the late ministry was dis_
solved, and I now declare that 1 had no anticipation that such
au event was near at hand, and that the first intimation I re-
ceived of it was ass article which I read in tee morning papers.
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The next charge which I have seen
brought against use was, that I had busied myself in the forma-
tion of a new administration, and the only overt act which is
alleged against use, is that I attended the Privy Council meet-
ings. I did attend them, and the first was on the Monday fol-
lowing the resignation of the late :ninistry. I attended his ma-
jesty et St. James's, and there I saw many members of the
late government. They had audiences of his majesty—so had
I (Hear, hear,) and a message was also delivered, that all
those who were Privy Councillors should come into the inner
room, and sit at the Council Board. These were the circum-
stances under which 1 attended. I wns merely taken then by
sufferance in illy official capacity as Privy Councillor. Tlie
ether meetings I attended from having received the ordinary
printed circulars sent to the members. It would be difficult,
and I may add improper, to state what occurred at those meet-
ings; and I believe such a statement would not he consistent
with the oath of a Privy Councillor; but there are many gen-
tlemen present who are members of the Privy Council—its
Votes are open to them, and it will be sufficient to state to the
House that on any of the occasions whets I attended nothing
was transacted but business of the most formal nature. (Loud
cries of " Hear, hear, hear.") When my right hon. friend Sir
Robert Peel returned, and took upon himself the station which
he now occupies, he did me the honour to send for nie to his
house. It waslupon an occasion when 1 was requested to at-
tend a Privy Council, which heed nothing whatever political in.
its object —it was for getting the Chancellor of the Exchequer
to snake good the payments of the Exchequer, and to fix the
salaries. With these two exceptions, fruits the time of Sir Ro-
bert Peel's return up to this time, I have never attended a Ca-
binet Council at his house. (Cheers from the ministerial
benches.) I will not go further with this subject. But when I
bear of constant visits and communications with the Home-of-
fice before' my right hunt friend (Peel) returned, and of my
tieing cominually with' the Duke of Wellington, I think I am
hound to say that there is not one word of truth in it all.
(Cheers.) It would he perfectly immaterial if it were true. I
would have felt it an honour if I were justified in calling so fre-
quently as I. was reperred to have called. But I should consi-
aer it an act of impertinence having no business to transact
there, if I were to call as has been stated. I never did so, and
all 1 say to the charge is, that it is '.otally false. (Cheers.)
Now, with respect to the formation of the present .ministry, I
will boldly say, that with the exception of my right hon. friend
Sir R. Peel, the Lord Chancellor, and the Duke of Welling.
ton, 1 never advised, never counselled, and never knew of
the appointment of any one individual, till it had taken place.
(Great cheering from the ministerial benches.) So much
fur that charge. I will now come to this— namely,• the
dissolution of the last parliament. (Hear, hear.) It has been
said that I assisted at the council where that measure, was re-
solved upon. It is not true. (Great cheering I. never did
adenet, never did couusel, never was conselteel, and never had
-anythieg te de s;,iels thwa4s,,ltrtivrrof-rtrrr-tast-partiao.:ant. sese
little -did I know of it, that it was by accident, purely by acci-
dent, that I became acquainted with it. I knew nothing or the
tact till it was announced in- the Gaze:te. (Cheers.) I will
only mention- this further eireutnstmnee, and the fact will occur
to the minds of all the gentlemen here, that, if I were sup confi-
dent' that parliament would be dissolved, why slid I • not take
those steps that were taken by others—why did I not address
my constituency its the prospect of a dissolution—vrhy did I not
beg for their favour ? The fact was, that. I have hailno coin-
muneettiou whatever upon the subject, nor did I have any with
my cunstititents mail I ceased to be Speaker of that house.
Whets I did.so cease, I then certainly had communications on
the subject. lam now again a candidate for the high office" I
formerly held ; but, with respect to my having had any com-
muniCation with any human being at any time, or upon any
occasion, with reference to the late dissolution of the last go-
vernment, or that There is anything from whirls to infer that I
had anything to dim, or diet I'delivered a single opinion respect-
ing the dissolution of the last parliament, I will say, that to
each and to all 1 will give, with the utmost soleniuity, the
strongest denial that can be given. I will declare before this
house that, froth the, beginning to the end, it is wholly and ut-
terly false. (Loud and lone_-coutinued cheering,) I have
felt it but respectful to the house to state this. .As I 'said
before, I have long been the servant of the House ;of Com-
mons and „their chief officer, and there is no disgrace which
I should feel so heavy, as upon the present occasion to be die-
credited by this house.—(Loud cheers.) With respect to who is
the best person to fill the office of chairman, I am some that the
house will concur with me, and I mean no disparagement to my
right hon. friend (Mr. Abercromby) in sayiug so, that at the
present moment, from peculiar circumstances, it will require
great experience, and great knowledge of the business of the
house, in order to discharge the duties of chairman. Whether
I ain elected or nut falls to nothing when compared to this.
'I have the highest respect For- the right hon, and learned gen-
tleman who has been proposed in oppositiou to me, and I
hope he will believe that I speak with perfect sincerity when I
say that no mau rates his talent's higher than I do, and that I
feel that it is no disparagement to him to say that even he would
feel great difficulties in .filling the Chair of this Ilmise. I will
now conclude, but before I sit downs, perhaps the House will
permit me to express a wish—it is the one uppermost in my
mind—that whatever may be the determination of time !louse
on the present occasion, they may Rom a sound judgment its
electing him as their Speaker who will discharge his duties
most usefully to the country, most acceptably to the House,
and most satisfactory to the public at large. (The right hon.
gentleman concluded amidst very loud cheers.)
Mr AHKltcuosisY then rose, and was received with most en-
thiisiastie cheers. From the si;uatiun in which the right hon.
gentleman stood, and from the low tone in which he spoke, it
was almost impossible to catch a single whole sentence of who'
he stated. We, however, understood the right hon. gentleman
to say, that he had yielded to the suggestions of his friends, and
not by any desire, of his own, in standing forward as a candidate
for the high office of Speaker of that house. The house was
now about to perform its first and one of its most important du-
ties. (Loud cheers.) Ile had always considered the selection
of the individual who was to fill the highest place in that
house was one of its tweet paramount duties. (Cheers.) Ile
would say nothing at the present moment with reference to the
fitness of the right hon. gentleman or himself to fill that high
office, but would leave that -point to be decided by the judg-ment of those who were much snore competent judges than
himself. (Cheers.) The right honourable gentleman
,eppo•
site;:no doubt, as he tboughteproperly asurnsest. honourably,
had entered into explanations of his conduct with reference to
what had taken place not within, but without the walls of the t
house. It must be known to all present, that the contest out of
the house had been couducted in a very different manner to
that in which it would be carried on in it. (Great cheering )
He would not advert now to what had taken place elsewhere,
because, unless lie was very much deceived, many days would
not pass before a motion would be brought before the house
which would have the effect of deciding the particular question
which had been so much the subject of conversation out of
doors. (Loud cheers.) Whatever opinion he had entertained
upon different subjects, whether right. or wrong he would not
pretend to say, had been adopted by him because he believed
them to be the best. - He did not think it necessary to trouble•
the house further, as he was firmly convinced its decision would
be such as would give weight and dignity to itself, and insure
all its rights and privileges, and secure the conducting of its
business with order and regularity. which was essential to the
comfort, honour, and confidence of the people. (Cheers.)
Lord STANLEY then rose amidst great cheering and address-
ed the heuse as follows:—Sir, as I conceive it is not probah;e
that any other gentleman will be submitted to the consideration
of the house other than those that have already been laid before
it I hone 1 shalt not be considered as impertinently intiuding
myself on the attention of the house when I confess that I feel
anxious to take this opportunity of stating the grounds fist the
vote which it is my intention to give on the present occasion.
(Cheers.) In ray doing so. I an, anxious, in a question which
partakes in some degree of personal and political consideration,
to state my views without offence to either of the two gentlemen
who have beets put in nomination. fur both of wlo.rn I entertain
personal respect, (cheers,) and from whom I have received,
ituritig the existence of the late government, great and impor-
tant assistance. (Cheers.) 1 had the hdnour to forums part of
that government—an honour I shall ever feel in having for four
years been a member of that administration. I yield to no
member in my attaehment to that which has been put forward
as the great principle involved in this question—l mean the
principle of reform. I peel to no member of that or any other
government in my attachment to liberal principles. I will ven-
ture to any I am seeund to none in the zeal with which I en-
deavoured to support it. But, in 1833, although I did nut express
emy sentiments on that occasion, I conveyed most fully nn
praises to those which were everywhere I;estowed, by. every
side of the house. out the talents, integrity, and impartiality of
my hon. friend—that no differences °pillion were suffi-
cient to counterhalance his -inestimable services. (Loud
cheers.) I was of that opinion then, lam of that opinion now.
But., when I cause down to the house. I must confess I (lid ex-
pect to hear a declaration of the differences of circumstances
under which their opinion had changed. (Cheers.) I came
down with conimumeations from neither one side nor the other,
founded on nothing but the public prints, and wherein I was in-
formed that disciosui•es were to be made that would call on the
house as a matter of honour, to do ass act of justice to itself in
not submitting to au intriguer as the president of their assem-
bly. Now, sir, what has been done? My hon. Friend who
proposed the right hon. gentleman, and no man entertains a

Mr. A BERCROMBY explained that the charges alluded to rested
not upon his assertious, but a report which prevailed out of
do,rs, and originated with sortie other person. (Cries of
" Question," and " Divide.")
Mr. FEncussoN said—lt is with no inconsiderable degree of
diffidence I rise to offer my sentiments on this important occa-
sion. Very early perceiving that there would be a strong op-
position and difference of ()pillion on thirquestion, (though I
did not consider it would-be so itnportan as it has become).—
from a high resp act for his impartiality of feeling and judgment,
1 did certainly communicate to Sir C. M. Sutton, that I should
vote for him, irr at least not against him. ("Question, ques-
tion.") But the character of my present cowrie is now, how-
ever, very different. It is not now a question of character, but
a great political questiom (hear, hear.) On that principle I
would have voted against my own brother, if he had been op;
posed to the principles I conceived advantageous to the public
good; but in the situation in which I was placed, I found that
the voice of the reformers throughout the coutitry was loud,:and
decided on the question. (Hear, hear.) Even my own. COO-
stituents requested me to support the other right honourable
gentleman, (4,11 r. Abercromby,) and app.alt..,t'atme upon, me, so
hist and tiiiet toliiing the to vote agaitiSt Sir U. M. Sutton,'
that I was - placed in a very difficult situation„ and there is
scarcely a gentleman iu the north who does not think I shall
vote against that right hon. gentleman. I aim sorry to say that
Sir C. M. Sutton has placed his honour and character at stake
upon this question. (Cries of " No, no," and " ear, beat.")
I say it in the most friendly Manner, that he has placed his
character and honour at stake, and as he has left it to me to
to take my own course, I may declare that I believe his character
and honour is not at stake. (Hear, hear; hear.) But the.
question is intimately connected with the great principle of
reform, and if I supposed his honour and character were at
stake, I would be the last man to vote against him. (Hear,
hear.) Atter what has been said, I have uoihit4t more to add
than that,' shall so far u.aintain my promise as not to vote
against hirn. (Hear, and loud cries of " Question.")
Sir Cu ARLES M. SUTTON and Mr. FERGUSSON explained.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL then rose, and was received with loud
cheers. He said he could not trespass, upon the time of the
house, without explainingahe grounds Own which he gave his
vote noon the present i•ceasion. Before going into the matter
generally, he would say sonastimin* reletive to what had fallen
fermi his right hon. friend, Lord Stanley. If his principles, as
laid down by.hitn that day, were carried out; 'hen there was au
end at once to the option of the House of Comons as to whom
they should place in the chair. According, to' that doctrine, the
House of Commons were hound to re-elect the right hon. geri-
'Veltman, because be had come down and denied, rip.st
that he had anything, to do with counselling the oisSolutiou of
the late house—(great clicering)—with being
'guiltless of in-
triguing for the dismissal of the tate rapist' y. Ihe house had
nut met for the purpose of passing a Vote of censure upon the
right bon. gentietuan the late speaker,: but to 'exercise one of the
most important acts they could be called. upon to do, .viz., the
choosing of a genhenaan to preside over the'ir debates; and it
would not, it could nut, for a moment be supposed that tt.e house
would cast dishonour on any one of the cauutdates, because they
(lid not elect him. (Cheers.) Itele was a precedent fur thi
'election he proposed to the house. In the time of Lord North,
Sir Fletcher Norton having done something to displease that
minister, and the noble lord having a majority in the house,
proposed another gentleman as speaker, making some cumpli= •
mentor). speech to the effect that he war too old a servant of the
house, ano ought to be relieved from hs duties,—the noble lord
carried his motion, but could it for a imnient be supposed that
the house intended by the vote to cast censure. upon Sir F. Nor,
bat ? Much hid been said as to the attendance of the late
speaker at the privy.conocals ; but it was a well known fact, that
the sUannonlng 01 the councillors dues not rest with the King,
but with the prime minister for time time. The attendance in
question took place when the Duke of Wellington was prime
iniuister, (eheets,) and it was a well known tact that moue of
toe councillors were summoned but those who were well known
to hold opinions iu unison with the pet son who summoned.
lliS feeling wits,•that the' spraker of the House of Commons
had so Mixed himself up in the late pelt sicat %volt& that he had
compromised the dignity of the character. (Loud cheers.)
'!bete is no doubt that it' the right hon. gentleman had pleaded
to be excused, it would have been `ranted. At the time the