The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-08-11 00:00:00

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to the thinnesi dale hous4 &this advanced period he could's.:
nothing; it was desirabitieVen tic that many important bills
should be gone through with. This houie was,..i2owever, the
great council of the nation, and ought to be summoned in casa
the measure to which be had alluded %Vag rejected etset.vhere,
and he therefore hoped no course of arrangetneut would be
adopted under the.supposition -that-the session was nearly at an
end. ( Hear, hear.)
Lard J. Russia'. observed, that in the event of the bill befog
thrown outelsewhere, he agreed with the bun. member for Mich
dlesex iu thinking that an extraordinary course of proceeding ••
would be required on the part of this house. With that course
the mofiou which he had made could not interfere, as it rould
easily be set aside in case'of urgency tirof necessity. (:Hear.) ;. •
Rosnocx said, that at this- late peri,d of the seAtion it
would be as well for this house to adjourn for six weeks, while
the farce was proceeding in another p.ace. (Loud cries of
"Chair," " Order.")
Tue SPEAKER rose, and said the observations which had just
falieu from the hon. member for Bath ought nut to have been
matte. (Hear, hear.) ,
The report of the Irish church bill was brought up and 'grata
to._, Th. militia staff reduction bill was read a second time.
The house adjoufued at three o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—Saruaner.
The lords met at eleven o'clock this morning. Prayers were
read by the Bishop of Briltol.
The Eat! of Shaftesbury took his test on the woolsack_
Counsel were callmd iu, an.l Mr. Knight appeared.

snes:Wsscay.
Mr. Miller examined —1 am ii•deputy recorder of Shmwss
bury; I ant a barrister of twenty sears' standing; I aura resi-
dent proprietor within the liberty, and have been „perfectly
acquainted with the_ affairs of the corporation twenty years.
The borough magistrates vary ; there is about an equal number
of gentlemen and tradesmen. Justice was done in sessions and
out of sessions with great integrity, clearness, and satisfaction
to the public. 1 speak of my experience as counsel at the bar;
but 1 have been deputy recorder myself fur the brat two years,
of which time it does not become me to speak. The corporate
-body have power to levy a rate for watching and lighting; but
this affects the old liberty only, and not the new parlimneutary
borough, which auu!d be saddled with a rate if this bill passes,
as well as the expense of maintaining the county bridges, which
is a very. serious disadvantage. 1 cannot vouch for the truth of
that consequence, however. Tne Free School bears the high-
est character. Believes that it has gained more prizes. scholar-
ships, and honours than any two schools in England for the last
ten years. The head-master is Ur. Butler. The right of free-
dom is hereditary. Am one of the burgesses. My descendants,
born and unborn, have a right to partake of all the advantages
of this school. Consider the. power of educating my children
these their .best patrimony: in the first place they have the
right of gratuitous education ; in the next pace toe exhibitious,
of which there me seven or eight, affsol halt a maintenance at
the university. Ant one of the trustees of the school. Siuce it
got out aim almost intennitable ehencery shit the excess bf
income has been about -£BJO a year, wills Which they have
reunited two new exhibitions. Expect to be able in found an-
other in the course of three or tour years. Know tisveral
instances in which decavel tradesmen's sons would have gone
without education but for this school, where they got exh.bi.
tint's. No distiuctien is mode bet area the s ich and the p
the gentleman and thetradesman—all boys have a fair chance.
St. John's College, Cambridge, appoints the head master. ' If
this bill tresses, thinks that a question wirl be raised of the right
of evsry inhabitant of Shrewsbury to send their rhi,dren to the •
school, and the preponderance of my opinion is, that it wilt give
them the right to send their children; and I know that that. is
the opinion of the inhabitants. This amounts to an expeetatieu
ou the part of, I will not say the town classes, but on the part
of many of the higher .chisses. For instance, a great many
gentlemen with large tatniiies cone front Ireland for the express
purpose of the advantages of this school; but they pay Dr.
Butler. This class writsd suppose that, as they rent houses in
the town. this bird will Bite them the right of sending their
children frees A' great number of the inhabitants of the town
• were not burgesses, and when they-had -large families they pea-
-1 tinned the corporation to he made burgesses. The corporation
a hiattert them till they found out the reason of their applica-
tion, amid then they refused to admit them-merely for the sake
of getting education for nothing. The existence of the scheel,
independent of edueat ion, was of great advautage to the town.
I calculate that it occasions, directly and indirectly, an expeu-
dsture of near, £30,000 a year in the town. There have been
about 3,k) boys iu the school, and I know the expense of their
education is net less than 1:100 each, independently of those
who are resident. Gentlemen of the first station itt Etsg:aud
seed their sons there. There are at present in the .school the
sons of two chief justices—Denman and Tindal. 1r all the
children of the inhabitants were let in, it would be in possible
for any master to manage the school, and it would certainly
destroy the adequate prevision or Dr. Butler. The salary he
receives from the corporation is inadequate.
Lord RA DN Wt.—What is it?—About £lOO a-year. It would
be ruinous to the town it the school %Tete turned into nue for
writ tog and arithmetic. There are plenty of such schools which
are largely and liberally supported. 1 here are seine church
livings in the gift of the corporation. The last living that was
vacant was St. Marv's. There were three candidates, two of
whom were connected with the corporation, and the other, who
was me, was elected to the living. As he was to preach to the
boys of the school, the great object of thecorporation was to find
a sound, orthodox, honest man. There area great many is-
corporate(' g sills or companies in the town, but the corporation
has no power over them. They have a general cent rot ever ilie
town, and missy summon the wardens of these guilds to du cer-
tain acts of suit o; service, but they have no control over their
internal coucerns. The latest date under which these guilds
wet e inctop :rated is the reign el Queen Anne. My ovation re-
lative to the control of the corporation over these companies
was adverse to that of the commissioners. The commissioners
asserted the corporation had a coat rol over them, but aaa lawyer
I differed from them. The commissioners found fault with cer-
tain fines imposed by these guilds for admission, and 1 said we
had nothing to do with that. I cited some cases of " the King
v. the Carpenters' Company," and "the King v. the Mercers
Company," which were tired in the Court or King's Bench,
and whims able lawyers must know something of, in support of
my op libel that the corporation had no control over them. I
said that, under existing circumstances, these guilds were a
scandalises nuisance in the than; and I accompanied the de-
claration with this statement, that they bad been established ip
the infancy of commerce, and had eutlked their use, and were
now a scandalous nuisance. I now complaiu of the manner in
which that statement is given in the report, because the com-
missioners omitted my preceding observations. •
Mr. Knight: Is it a correct account of what took place?—
Witness: It is not.
Mr. Knight : You mean to say, on yinr oath, that it is not a
it and accurate report?—Wituess 1 do; it is unfair and iu-

act orate. •
Lord BeouGn 414.—D0 you mean to say that the report is dis-
honest ?—Witness : God fin bid, my turd, that I should apply
that term to the report. I have uothiug to do with the motives
the commissioners.
Mr. Knight.—Certainly not; I do not mean that vonshould
espies@ any opinon as to the motives. What sort of juries do
you, get ? —Witness : excellent.
Mr. Knight. —Do you think the severance of the boundaries
of the boroutrh would lessen the rerp,:etability of the juries?—
Witness: I do.
Mr. Knight. Then justice is at present administered in
Shrewsbury to the satisfaction of the public?—Witness: I dos
on my conscience, believe they are perfectly satisfied.
Mr. Knight. —And you think the respectability of the jusiese
would be lessened by this alteration in the boundaries?—Wit-
ness: I do; there will not be the same number to chrsate from.
Lord BeouGnast—Must the children of dissenters at your.
schools go to the established church ?—Witness : Most certan ly
if they. are boarders; but if not, they may go with their parents
to a dissenting place of worship.
Lord BROOGHAIII.-16 the catechism of the, church of Eng.
laud taught at the schools to all the scholars, whether the chit
/hen of dissenters or otherwise? Witness.—The catechism of
the church is, to the best of my belief, taught at the schools to
the• children of dissenters as well as to the cuildren of metaberrs
of the church.
'Lord BBOUGHAM.—DO you then suppose that a parent who
is a baptist Call conscientiously send his child to a school he
taught the church clitechistn, -when he disapproves of itt
Witness.—l am no casuist, toy lord. (A laugh.)
Lord HeoLGH A 01.—No, but pet haps you can tell me whether
you, being a churchman, could conscientiously send sour
to a baptist school, where time is a foundation? Witness.
I would not on any account.
Lord Banennsm.—Just FO; and of course von could not
suppose that a baptist dissenter could couscientiousi) send his
child to a school where the church catechism is taught? Wit-
ness.— M y bird, 1 cannot-answer fits others. '
Lord BROUGHAM.—Do you think that it would be practicable
to have a system of religion taught at these schools which could
meet the apprehation both of churchmen_ stud all classes of
dissenters? Witness.—My lord, Ido nut think that religion is
such an accommodating thing as that • such a system cottid be
taught.
Lord Bitouniss Al.—Exactly so Had you asked me the ques-
tion, I should have returned the same answer.
Lord ItatnNott then put several questions to the witness re-
lative to the alleged discrepancy between the compliment' the
commissioners paid to the corporation at. the exammat ton ; end
the observations which appeared in their report, but the answers
contained nothing of importance.
Mr. Lonsdale: examined by Mr. Knight —ls a barrister and.
town-clerk in Shrewsbury. Considered the proposed admin.,*
of the boundaries of the borough ohjerriondble. There are twiCs
newspapers in Shrewsbury. The Shreirsbary Chsanicle is
violently liberal or radical in its politics. The editor's name
-Mr. John Watton.—Several atirer„giteslions Itere .put tu. the
wiirwss, as also to another witness, Mr. Young, but they
elicited uothiug of importauce.

HER EPOR if.
John Juhnson, examined by Sir Charles Wetherell.—ls town-
clerk of Hereford. There "wa, no particular complaint made
that freemen by birth, servitude, or marriage were improperly
excluder!, but there was a sort of several complaint. Uffered
to produce to the commissioners the teas ate of any particular
man's being rejected. The statements in the repot t of the
conimissioners respecting the exclusion of freemen in certain
cases die not fair alter the offer made to the rommisatouers. Did
not believe the town-clerk who was his predecessoror'any other
of the members of the mayor's court vi ere capable of doing in-
justice front political mutives. Thought such animpntatiou
calumny.

EV:Mitt D.
There are eighteen mernhet6 of the council, six of whoa') Zo
out annually, and their places are supplied by popular elect
At these electi,,ns there is a great deal of animosity and strife.
It is notoriou6 that there h is been bribery in'io for as other par-
poor freemen. If the whole pan-
ties have paid the rates of the
her of officers of the court were elected yearly, he thought the
place would he the scene of much couteution and uproar. Did
not think that if this hill passed the court'would be respectable.
as no qualification is necessary. .

A 1,r4 WICK. •
Robert Dun examined.—ls the town-clerk. .The freemen
acquire iheir right by birth and servitude. Th-e freemen de-
rived their grants of property from the Devesen family. Free-
men are exempted from tolls. Thinks those who are not free-
mpn pay tolls In the market. The Duke of Northumberland
is the Lord of the Lordship of Alnwick Moor. Does aid knot
Of any way in which the rights of the. present freemen; if emits-
guished. could be transferred to others. The corporation does
not send any member to parliament ; but did at one. period, but
that was long before the passing of the reform act. There is 00
power of rating at present in the borough.
Earl RA Drum —What is the popclatiuu ?--Witness Ids xis
or seven th.:usand.
Anther witness, whose name was not asked, was then ex-
amined by Sir ories Wetherell,—All the ft eernen, except
eight or nine, petitioned against this hill. Thlt bill wotild raise
the number of freemen from 21X) to &X) or 900. The Duke
Northuolierland's castle and Inuits Wevuld be brought by this
hill within the municipal boundaries, and would Ile liati.e to be
taxed by the common council. There is a clause .exclutiiiiit a
duke, a margin?, or a boron from the council (a laugh): does
not think that the admission flatly of these classes of noblemen
would be injurious. the inhabitants hare no, right tos shoal
over Inc gr.unds belonging to the duke, which are to be made
municipal by this considerflie Duke of 144thumberland
a natural person, and not belerging- to is body darfot-star-•
(Laughter.)