The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-01-06 00:00:00

c eived the system of the repository to be defective. After
giving some details, he said there was a mass of important
evidence in the books to which no references were given.
He then proceeded to show how he would perfect the sys-
tem. Documents might be kept back by the representatives
of a deceased surveyor; and he gave an instance of a docu-
ment having been kept back, and a demand of £2OO made
for liberty to inspect it. Fortunately accident proved it to
he useless ; but to prevent evils of this kind he would re-
quire every officer in the establishment, himself included,
every year to make oath that he had restored every thing to
the repository. He had hitherto been in the position of a
stranger in his own house. Ile had felt the utmost reluc-
tance to interfere with that repository. He had felt when be
went there that he was, so to speak, a stranger in his own
house. He confessed that [this was in reply to a question
put by Mr. Bushell] lie had never suggested any alteration
in the system. As to the delegation, the confidence was ex-
tended to the Clerk of Committees, his clerk, and from him
again to his clerk, the latter a stranger in the building at ten
shillings a week, who sat in the office alone with the door of
the repository open. The Town-clerk proceeded further to
elucidate the system which he intended to pursue, one part
of which was, to have the repository enclosed, within an iron
railing, with a general door which was to be opened every
morning for the day. Mr. Okill would have access to every
thing but those deeds which ought not to be produced to any
person. The deeds had not hitherto been under the direct
surveillance of the Town-clerk, and he wished now to relieve
the council from any thing like responsibility on the subject.
He had hitherto forborne to complain of any part of the sys-
tem in the repository. He had the greatest respect for Mr.
Okill, and had no wish to disturb him in the possession of
any duty which by law he could perform.
Mr. HODGSON said the obvious duty which they had to
perform was to see that the Municipal Act was regularly car-
ried out. He was of opinion with Mr. North that solicitors
were not the most regular persons. as they were busied with
abstract questions, and had not leisure for nice details and
arrangement. They bad been acting in carelessness or con-
tempt of tle law, and they must now take care that they did
not do so in time to come.
The MAYOR said Mr. North's amendment was not
seconded.

Mr. BUSHELL said it was useless to second it, as it would
place the Town-clerk in a position which he had stated the
law would not permit him to accede to. He thought they
might fulfil the law in every respect by giving the Town-
clerk the power, and Mr. Okill the management. Mr.
Okill's duties were similar to those of a librarian. If he were
to receive all his directions from the Town-clerk, the law
would be fulfilled, and the Town-clerk wouldihave the bene-
fit of his arrangemeat. He could not see any objection to
Mr. Okill being the assistant of the Town-clerk. Give him
the management of the muniments, and the difficulty would
be got rid of.
Mr. BIRKETI
Mr. BUSHELL
Mr. BIRKETT.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.-oh, yes, he will.
Mr. BUSHELL.—If he reads the debates of this council,
and see the deference which is paid to his feelings, he will
not care what he is called—whether Town-clerk's clerk, or
Clerk of Committees.
Mr. HORNDY regretted that this discussio-i had taken
place, as it had given rise to details which it was injurious
should go forth. He would oppose both the resolution of
the committee and the amendment of Mr. North. The Town-
council had nothing to do with the matter; the Town-clerk
was the legal custodian ; he had duties, and he was bound to
perform them ; and he had told the council that he would
perform them. If the council passed any resolution, they
would take the responsibility upon themselves, which they
bad not by act of parliament. He hoped the Paid Officers'
Committee would withdraw the resolution.
Mr. HODGSON hoped the Paid Officers' Committee would
persevere.

.—That is all we want
.—Very well, the
—He

all difficulty is at an end

Mr. HORNBY rose to order. Mr. Hodgson bad already
spoken on the question.
The MAYOR said the Council was in committee.
Mr. HODGSON said they ought to go on with the resolu-
tion, for the purpose of letting the community see that the
individuals who now had charge of their affairs, could ad-
minister them properly and legally, without that sort of loose-
ness on the one hand, and of latitudinarianism on the other,
whicli had formerly been permitted.
Mr. HORNBY said he had no intention of saying anything
offensive to any one in the Council, and he hoped he had not
done so. Mr. Hodgson could scarcely have heard the reso-
lution of 1839 read, or he would not have made these re-
marks. There has been no looseness on the part of the
Council. He begged that the resolution might be again read.
The DEPUTY TOWN-CLERK read the resolution passed in
November, 1839, read at the outset of the proceedings by
Mr. Lloyd.
Mr. HORNET said the Council of that day expressed no
opinion as to their powers, but simply authorized the Town-
clerk to make such arrangements as were necessary, and as
he thought fit. It was necessary that the clerk of commit-
tees should have access to the deeds, and the Town-clerk pro-
posed that now. It thought it exceedingly inconvenient that
members should take every opportunity of making charges
against those who were of a different party. He was sent
there to facilitate the public business, and be was not influ-
enced by the slightest ill feeling to any one, but would act
most cordially with any member whatever for the benefit of
the community, which he conceived to be the object of all.
Mr. HODGSON said the reading of the resolution had but
strengthened the feeling which he entertained. In spite of
the extreme sensitiveness of parties he would show that they
should avoid the laxity which had been shown by those who
hail preceeded them.
The MAYOR rose to order, and informed Mr. Hodgson
that he was deviating from the immediate subject before
them. Mr. Hodson persisted. (Loud and repeated cries
of " Chairr,") induced him to bow to the Mayor's decision.
The Deputy TOWN-CLERK, at the request of Sir Thomas
Brancker, read the Town-clerk's statement touching the
custody of the deeds, &c. Sir Thomas remarked that they
hail already virtually adopted the views expressed in that
statement.
Mr. EARLE said the member for Everton Ward never
arose but he made observations insulting to his political
opponents.
(LauThe MAYOR.-1 hope you will avoid it Mr. Earle.--
ghter.)
Mr. EARLE.—He not only remarks on their conduct, but
he does it with a malignant pomposity that renders it doubly
insulting.
THE MAYOR..---It is highly des
alities should be avoided. Serely
racier of this Council, if we can
is necessary to be don.

sable that these person-
t Is a stigma on the cha-
lot meet to discuss what

,“,,,, wiznout reflecting either on those
who have gone before us, or those who are to come after us.
Mr. LACE said it appeared that the resolution of 1839 had
not been carried out. He would propose that the Town-
clerk should be directed to report to the council some plan
for the custody of the muniments.
Mr. AIKIN said the Town-clerk ought to have kept the
council in the strict line of their duty. If they were not
acting legally, he should have discovered it and set them
right.
Mr. EvANs said they were splitting hairs in a manner
which they had not been accustomed to do, before they had
so many legal gentlemen in the council, gentlemen, whose
business it was to multiply questions. (Laughter.)
Much discussion of a desultory character followed. On a
division the numbers were,—
For the resolution ..................28
Against it

Majority for the resolion ...... 19
The following are ori
the names of the members who voted on
each side :
For the resolution.--Messrs. Hodgson, Isaac Holmes,
Blackburn, Copeland, Aikin, Holme, Rae, Royden, J. Law-
rence, Cooper, Birkett, Bushell, Procter, Lloyd, Kilshaw,
Parker, Plumpton, Trotman, Smith, Harbord, Houghton,
Griffith, Freme, Crook, Bramley-Nloore, Molyneux, Evans,
and the Mayor.
Against the resolution.—Messrs. R. Houghton (council-
lor,) Thornhill, Preston North, H. Holmes, Hornby, J.
Holmes, Aspinall, G. H. Lawrence, Lace, Platt, Barclay,
Bulley, Earle, Turner, Holt, Nicol, Moon, and Sir Thomas
Brancker.
The resolution to pay Mr. Tyson £165 2s 4d for extra ser-
vices was then carried without discussion.
Mr. LLOYD introduoed the next resolution, namely :
" That on the establishments of the Town-clerk, and Deputy
Town-clerk, and Prosecuting Solicitor being formed, the
clerk to the Clerk of Committees will not be any longer re-
quired, and the Town-clerk is directed to make the arrange-
ments for the change accordingly."
Mr. TURNER said as the committee had not made any re-
port as to Mr. Okill's duties, it was desirable to postpone
this resolution till that was done. Mr. Turner moved an
amendment to that effect.
Mr. LACE seconded the amendment.
Some discussion ensued, in the course of which Mr.
HORNBY observed, that Mr. Abbott's duties had been re-
presented as simply those of an engrossing clerk, which was
not the case, but far otherwise.
The MAYOR observed that: it was stated in ,the remarks
of the committee that the apportionment of the duties and
salary of the Clerk of Committees had to be considered. It
seemed premature, therefore, to pass such a resolution as
that which had been read.
After some conversation, Mr. LLOYD, on the part of the
Paid Officers' Committee, consented to postpone the subject.

COMMISSIONERS FOR BIRKENHEAD.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE brought before the council the
subject of appointing three commissioners under the Local
Act of Ist and 2d Victoria, cap. 33, for amending an act 3rd
William IV. for paving, lighting, watching-, cleansing, and
otherwise improving the township or chapelry of Birkenhead,
and for regulating the police thereof. Mr. Lawrence pro-
posed Mr. Parker, Mr. North, and Mr. Wood.
Mr. HORNBY wished to make one observation with regard
to this proposition, and he hoped the present commissioners
would not consider what he was about to say disrespectful to
them. He certainly should think it his duty to oppose the
appointment of the same gentlemen as commissioners, not
on account of not having discharged their duties properly,
but because those gentlemen themselves would agree with
him that they were not upon the most harmonious terms
with their brother commissioners. It was well known there
was an act of parliament to be brought in by the commis-
sioners of Birkenhead, in which the rights of the corporation
of Liverpool were very materially affected ; and he thought
it was desirable that the commissioners : ypointed by the
corporation should be gentlemen who would be likely to act
harmoniously with their brother commissioners, and, if pos-
sible, save a great deal of those unpleasant discussions which
had taken place. He thought also that some important
member of .the Finance Committee should be one of the
commissioners. It was his intention to propose that Sir
Thomas Braucker be appointed in the place of Mr. Parker,
which he did without meaning the slightest offence to Mr.
Parker. Sir Thomas Braneker, it was well known, had not
only a great knowledge of the affairs of the corporation, and
of the
ght the town •, and it was very proper that some arrangement
M be made which would prevent those enormous expenses
to which the corporation was put in parliamentary business,
which it must be the effort of this council to diminish as
Much as possible. He therefore begged to propose the elec-
tion of Sir Thomas Braneker in the place of Mr. Parker.
oSrir Twos. BRANCKER said he was much obliged to Mr.
1-1 nhy, but he would prefer not being appointed.
Mr. BIRKETT contended that the Finance Committee
were represented at the Birkenhead board by Mr. Wood.
Nl%Parker was a member of the Watch Committee, and
North of several others, so that the present selection was
but fair and judicious. With regard to lessening the parlia-
tomentary expenses, these three gentlemen, whatever they were
todo, could not lessen them one farthing. He was surprised
hear such a reason assigned as the want of harmony be-
tween him and the other commissioners as an objection to
.
Parker. If the same feeling actuated the majority of
the conservative party, that because a harmonious feeling did
not pervade the whole body, Mr. Ilornby would not at that
moment have been a member of the Finance Committee.
.Y
Mr. HORNBY said he had been completely misunderstood
Mr. Birkett.
Mr. EARLE—That is very probable.
The MAYOR—Order ! order !
Mr. Hoitxnv-1 believe Mr. Parker will himself admit
that he has on various occasions been—
Mr. EARLE—In water. (Laughter.)
The MAYOR--Ord, ! order !
bens'M HORNBY—Aliiiost quarrelling with the other mem-
When I say " harmoniously." I do not say they
Should not support the rights of the corporation.
s Mr. PARKER said, the grounds for this proposition,
4lthough it came from Mr. Hornby, amounted to nothing
til°te than a want of harmony. He gave credit to Mr.
tiioroby for the sincerity with which he made the statement;
ilut at the same time, when he was accused of not acti g
~,artooniously with his brother commissioners, he hoped he
ieuiricl receive credit for acting conscientiously. (Hear.)
Mr. ilornby had had a seat at the Birkenhead board, and