The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-06-28 00:00:00

Clauses 117, 118, 133, 138, and 1,18, were after several verbal
amendments then agreed to.
The house then resumed, the chairman reported -progress,
and obtained leave to sit again on Tuesday.
APOTHECARIES' BILL.
The Loan ADVOCATE moved that the, Apothecaries' Bill, as
amended by a committee of the whole house, should be referred
to a select committee..
After a desultory conversation, in which Mr. Warburton, Mr.
Lalor, and another hon. Member took part, the bill was ordered
to be referred, and a select committee was appointed.
The further consideration of the report on the Grand Juries
(Ireland) Bill was, after a few words from Lord Duncaunon
and Mr. N. Fitzsimon, postponed to Friday.

SHERIFFS' EXPENSES BILL.
Mr. F. PALMER moved that the house resolve itself into a
committee upon the Sheriffs' Expenses Bill.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL opposed the bill, many of the
clauses of which were highly objectionable.
Mr. F. PALMER. supported the bill, and denied that its pro-
visions would impose on the counties of England a single ad-
ditional shilling.
The house then divided, and the numbers were—
Aye s
Noes
Majority

42
60
-18

The bill is therefore lost. -
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
house adjourned at a quarter to three o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, JUNE 25.
Mr. WiLits and others from the Commons brought up the
bill for exempting all places used for the purposes of public
worship from the payment of poor and church-rates, which was
read the first time.
On the motion of Lord Feversham the Gravesend Pier Bill
was read a third time and passed.

EAST INDIA CHARTER.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE expressed a wish to put off the
consideration of the resolutions relative to the renewal of the
East India Company's charter from Friday next until some day
in the following week. If it would suit the convenience of a
noble lord who had formerly held a high situation in the Board
of Control, he would name Friday week.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said he was prepared to discuss the
question on Friday next, but he had no objection to the delay
proposed.
Motion postponed to Friday week.
COLONIAL SLAVERY.
The Earl of RIPON could not but feel, in dealing with a sub-
ject of such immense importance, how much he stood in need
of their lordships' indulgent consideration. The House of
Commons, after much discussion, carried on for some years,
and in every variety of shape, had come to certain resolutions
with respect to the subject of slavery in his Majesty's colonies,
in which they sought the concurrence of their lordships. He
did not ask them to consent to those resolutions from the effect
which the consideration of the subject had upon his own mind,
or on account of his own personal conviction ; he did not ask
them to consent to those resolutions from any wild, or enthu-
siastic, or what might be denominated any fanatic views. "(Here
the noble lord evinced symptoms of extreme distress, and was
obliged to sit down.)
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said that, seeing the noble earl op-
posite in a state of evident illness, his feelings being probably
excited by the importance of the . subject, he begged leave to
move the adjournment of the debate till to-morrow.
The Earl of RIPON again rose, and said he should be sorry if
on his account a question of such great importance was post-
poned. The House of Commons, by their resolutions, had ex-
pressed themselves in layout of a change in a state of things
which did not admit of being left in their present situation. It
was not therefore on account of theoretical speculation, or what
was called sentimental humanity, that he asked their lordships
to adopt those propositions; but, because, in the present state of
things, if they did not pursue some effectual measures, those colo-
nies would be exposed to evils which God forbid should ever befall
them. The noble lord was several times, during his speech,. so
exhausted as to be obliged to sit down, and concluded by saying
that though he could not pretend to address their lordships with
the authority, weight, and eloquence of the great men who had
preceded him on this subject, but who had passed away,—such
men as Pitt, Fox, and Burke, or as 'Wilberforce and Lord
Grenville among. the living—(and among the other illustrious
dead who had distinguished themselves on this subject he might
Mention the names of Lord Londonderry and Mr. Sharpe.)
Ile repeated, then, he could not speak with the authority, but
nevertheless hoped he had spoken in the spirit of those cele-
brated men. They would have urged the question with an
eloquence and power of which he was incapable; they would
'have laboured under no imperfection or impediment, nor stood
in need of any apology. Nevertheless, following, as he humbly
trusted, in the spirit of those great men, and attempting but in
vain to follow out their sentiments and feelings, he had called
upon the house to entertain this important subject. Their lord-
ships had the advantage of the riper experience of later times,
which some of the illustrious men who were gone did not enjoy,
and, resting upon that experience, he thought he might with
confidence ask the house to agree to propositions which he
considered calculated to promote the public good; and of which
if passed-and carried into effect, the fame would not rest with
hint, but with Parliament and the English nation. If their
lordships, in concurrence with the ether branch of the legisla-
ture, should bring this most momentous and difficult question'
to a safe and satisfactory issue, they would accomplish one of
the greatest triumphs of justice and humanity that had ever
been achieved within the walls of Parliament. (Hear, hear.)
The question having been put on the first resolution,
The Duke of WELLINGTON felt the utmost anxiety in rising
to address their lordships on this most arduous and impor-
tant subject: who, indeed, could approach question affect-
ing the well-being of 800,000
_persons (to say nothing of
otrier considerations connected with the subject) and be free
from feelings of anxiety ? He perfectly concurred with the
noble earl in his statement that the first blow which was
given to the system of slavery had been struck when the
vote of Parliament passed for tie abolition of the slave-trade;
but it did not follow because the first blow was then given, and
because other measures had been adopted on the subject at
different periods front that time to this, that it was therefore
necessary now, in the year 1833, that the house should agree to
the resolutions proposed by the noble earl. (Hear.) It was
not that he meant to endeavour to prevail on their lordships
not to pass those resolutions that he now rose, but because he
owed it to himself and his colleagues in preceding administra-
tions to show that the consequences sought to be established
did not legitimately follow from the grounds laid down by the
noble earl. In the discussions on the abolition of the slave
trade it was snore than once declared by the advocates of that
measure that they had no intention of following it up by an
attempt at the extinction of slavery; but, on the contrary, that
their intention at that time was by means of an abolitiiion of
the slave trade to ameliorate the condition of the slave, and
improve the state of society in the colonies. That men should
look forward to an ultimate abolition of slavery as a consequence
of that improvement in the state of society and the condition
of the slaves which must be and had been the result of the aboli-
tion of the slave trade, coupled with other measures, there could
be no doubt whatever; but that the one step was considered
an immediate consequence of the other he altogether denied.
The case, however, was very diarent in our West India Islands.
There always was, and there ever would be, a difficulty in getting
men to work in tropical climates more than would be sufficient
to provide them with the common necessaries of life. After they
had got these their great luxury was to repose in the shade' and
this was a luxury which they could procure by refraining from
labour ; but, begging the noble earl's pardon, he must say that
he was inconsistent with himself on the subject of this question
of the willingness of free negroes to work for hire. In some of
his former communications to the colonists on this subject, he
himself had admitted that unless strong means of coercion were
used, the free negro would not be found willing to work for hire;
and one of the means of coercion which the noble earl proposed
was a tax on provisions, which would make them dear, and thus
oblige the negro to undergo a greater degree of labour, or, in
other words, to do more work, in order to earn for himself the
necessaries of life. Now, he wanted to know, if these negroes
were to he changed to apprentices, having a certain portion of
time at their own disposal, and the option of working or not in
that time, how they were to be forced to work when they had no
longer the same inducement which the noble earl had held out
under his former plan ? He could not think, looking at the
whole of the plan, that these men could be forced to labour
when they were no longer urged to it by the lash, as it was
called. iste must say that he considered the government no
very good authority for the assertion that free negres would
be found willing to work for hire, for ministers themselves seemed
to have no fixed opinion on the subject. They first sent out
their orders in council, which they soon withdrew as impracti-
cable, and in the short space of three months they had changed
their plan several timesaind in some of its most important features.
First, there was the plan by which the negro was to be coerced
into labour by a tax on provisions, which would force him to do
a greater share of, work; that was to be accompanied by a loan
to the colonists of £15,000,000. He wished to know why were
they to give or to lend £15,000,000 t o the colonists, if the free
negroes were to work ? He could easily understand the prin-
ciple of compensation for the difference in the amount of labour
done by the slave and the free negro; but then what became of
their boasted improvement of the negro, and of his willingness
to work when he was placed in a great degree at his own dis-
posal ? If these improvements were as they were described,
why give compensation ?—if no such improvement was yet to
be -found then all these measures were premature. (Hear, bear.)
This part of the plan of coercion by the tax on provisions was
given up : and then came the plan of apprenticeship, which
was also to be accompanied by a gift of £15,000,000. (A noble
lord said—" of £'20,000,000.") No ; that was the result of a
subsequent change : for, in about a fortnight afterwards, just
after the Easter holydays, they found this turned into a gift or
£20,000,000. Now, seeing that these various changes were
made by the same set of noble lords and right hon. gentlemen
who now recommended the resolutions before the house to their
lordships—seeing so little accordance-in their plans, or so little
adherence to any fixed principle,—considering that the noble
earl in his address to the house, had left some of the most
important parts of the measure unexplained, and had touched
on others so very lightly, he must say that he looked to
the whole plan with less of confidence than he had ever
viewed any me .sure that had been submitted to Parliament.
His Grace concluded by expressing his opinion that it would
have been better to have postponed 'these measures for a few
years longer, until we had instructed the negroes how to bear
the change which we were now going to make in their condi-
tion. ([ear, hear.)
Lord SUFFIELD declared that he was a little disappointed at
his noble friend having taken so low a tone in recommending
the alterations which would be effected by these resolutions. 1t
had been said in the course of the debate that at present the
slave was not fit for freedom. Be that as it might, he was sure
that their lordships would all agree that, whether fit for freedom
or not, the slave was prepared to take it, if their lordships were
not prepared to give it. There were two points to which he
wished to call the particular attention of their lordships, and
those points were connected with the 3d and 4th resolutions.
The.third resolution related to the apprenticeship of the slave
for a certain term of years before he could obtain unconditional
emancipation. Now, he was not going to complain of that as
an injustice to the slave,—he was not going into an examina-
tion of his abstract right to the full command of all his time ;
he was only looking at the impolicy of this resolution in a prac-
tical point of view when he ventured to complain of it; for he
had the success of this scheme greatly at heart, not only on ac-
count of the benefit which he believed that it would confer upon
the slave, but also on account of the benefit which it would confer
on his master, and on account of the advantage which would ac-
crue from the improved condition of both master and slave to
parent state. The liberal and comptehen-
sihise-epprroisimpceirpiltey of the
principles on it was -proposed to carry on religious
instruction in our West India .colonies were points. to which
the people of England, and particularly the religious portion of
them, attached great importance. lie was• unwilling, upon
this occasion, to refer to the persecution of religious sects which
had, he was sorry to say it, taken place in some of our colonies.
To-picvent irritation he would abstain from it.
The Earl of HAREWOOD thought that at the present moment
it would have been as well if the noble baron, who was so pro-
minent a member of the Antislavery Association, and who was
himself objecting to that part of the resolutions which established
the system of apprenticeship, had abstained from using such
language as that which he had used when he said that time
slaves, if they could not get their freedom quietly, were pre cared
to take it. The noble earl concluded by stating, if we heard
him distinctly, that .great prejudice had leen .excited against
the colonists, in consequence of certain circumstances which

had recently occurred in Jamaica. Now those prejudices re-
ferred to a state of things different from that which existed at
present, and therefore ought not to operate to the disadvantage
of the colonists in the present discussion.
Earl GREY said that he did not intend to trouble their
lordships at any length upon this occasion. If it was neces-
sary to resist foreign encroachment, to defend the honour and
interest of the country by war, was it less necessary to uphold
the honour and character of the country by abolishing from
every portion of the British dominions the odious condition,
of slavery, so abhorrent to the principles of the constitution, as
well as to the breast of every Englishman? (Hear.) He for one,
entertaining as he did a hope .that this great measure would be
successful, did not grudge the payment of even £20,000,000. The
noble duke wished to know by what rule the amount of compen-
sation had been fixed. It was based on an estimate of the va-
lue of the entire number of the slaves, which was calculated at
£30,000,000. One-fourth of the slave's time was to be immedi-
ately taken from the proprietors, and ultimately the whole of it,
and according to the best calculations which ministers had been
able to make, they thought that £20,000,000 would be a fair com-
pensation to the proprietors for all the loss and injury to which
they might be subjected by the adoption of the government plan.
While ou this subject, he begged to inform the noble duke that
it was the intention of government to propose compensation to
the owners of every description of slaves. For his own part he
anticipated wish hope, having in it some degree of confidence,
that this measure would tend not only to the welfare of those
unhappy persons so long in the miserable state of slavery, but
also to the prosperity of the colonies, to which the emancipation
of the negroes had been by some supposed to be prejudicial. At
all events, the plan proposed by government was the only one
which they thought they could adopt under all the difficulties of
the case, and under the pressure of a necessity which they could
no longer avoid. (Hear, hear.
co)
The Duke of WELLlNGTONcontended that though the colo-
nial legislatures had not done all that could be desired, they had
done much to improve the condition of the slaves, and had re-
ceived the approbation of the home government for their acts.
The noble duke then read extracts from various despatches sent
out in 1827 and 1828, conveying. the thanks of the Bing to se-
veral colonial assemblies, for their endeavours to improve the
condition of the slave population.
Earl GREY said that nothing which had been read by the no-
ble duke applied to Jamaica. The fact was, that no general
measure for the improvement of the slaves had been adopted in
the colonies.
The Earl of HAREWOOD denied that government had com-
municated with sufficient frankness with the West India body.
Lord ELLENBOROUGIT said he should not detain the house, as
he concurred in all that had fallen from the noble duke (Wel-
lington,) and intended.to act with him in giving his assent to
the resolutions. He wished the noble earl had gone a little
more largely into the question of compensation; for he desired
to know 1101. v it was intended to pay the interest and principal of
the money. The noble earl entertained no confidence'that his
proposed measure would be successful. Were, then, the peo-
ple of this" country to be called upon to pay £20,000,001) of
money, to carry into execution a plan of the success of which
the noble earl himself entertained very slight hopes
Earl GREY.—I entertain a hope, approaching to confidence,
of its success.
After the Lord Chancellor had addressed the house, the reso-
lutions • were then agreed to seriatim and unanimously; the
amendment of the Duke of Wellington on the sth (the educa-
tion) resolution, to the effect of omitting the words "on liberal
and comprehensive principles," being, according to agreement
with ministers, adopted.—Adjourned till Thursday next.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, JUNE 25.
council TENIPORALITIES BILL.

Mr. STANLEY, in proposing the adoption of the first schedule,
said it was meant to fix the minimum of taxation on livings 01
£2OO a year. The right hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) however,
suggested that it would be better to fix it at £3OO, and it would
be for the House to decide whether it was expedient to sanction
an amendment to that effect.
Sir R. PEEL begged to call the attention of the House to the
actual situation of the Clergy of Ireland. They all knew that
in the course of last session it was necessary to vote a sum of
£60,000 for their relief, and in the present session nearly
£500,900 would be required. This would clearly show how
very precarious was the tenure of Church property in Ireland.
*After the month of November, 1833, a change would be made
which would render itnecessary to define the amount of charges
to be borne by the inferior Clergy. For his own part, he would
much rather that those charges were defrayed by any other
mode than by a graduated income tax. The immediate ques-
tion was this, whether or not any living ought to be taxed under
£3OO a year ? He thought the house would agree with him
that an income of that amount was not too much for a gentle-
man discharging spiritual functions, and that it ought not to be
liable to any charges or deductions whatever. The whole amount
which the tax on these smaller benefices would yield would
not exceed £740 a year. a trifle that would not be worth the
expense of collection. Indeed he thought that the right hon.
gentleman himself did not attach much importance to it, and
would not object to the amendment which he (Sir R. Peel)
would now propose—namely, that all livings of £3OO a year
and under that amount should be exempted from taxation.
Mr. HEATSICOTE thought £3,10 a-year too small to be taxed.
Mr. O'CONNELL supported the amendment, and said that no
deductions ought to be made from the smaller incomes.
After a few words from Mr. Sheil and Mr. Stanley, the
'amendment was agreed to, together with the first and second
schedules.
The house then resumed, and the report being received, it
was ordered to be taken into further consideration on Friday.
Mr. SHELL gave notice that he would, on another occasion,
submit a proposition, to the effect that £4,500 a year be the sa-
lary fixed for all future Archbishops, and £4,000 a year for all
future Bishops; and that he would introduce into the preamble
of the Bill a provision declaring that Church property was to
be under the control of the State.
Mr. HUNIE wished to know whether the noble lord (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) would be in his place on Friday next?
and if so, whether the question respecting the Bank Charter
would be brought forward ? It was a question which excited
very great interest in the public mind, and it was necessary that
some positive information should be afforded on the subject.
Mr. STANLEY could not say exactly whether his noble friend
would be in his place on Friday. He thought it however pro-
bable that he would, and if so he would bring on the Bank Char-
ter question, even if it should be necessary to postpone the
question ou the Church Temporalities Bill.
Several motions were postponed.
Some other unimportant matters were disposed of, and the
house adjourned at a quarter past Seven o'clock.