The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-08-20 00:00:00

POSTOFFICE.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH presented a petition from persons in-
terested in the trade with the United States, praying for an
emendation of the laws relating to the inland postage charged
upon letters going from the metropolis through Liverpool and
the other out-ports to the United States. The noble lord said
that the statement of the petitioners was, that they had hitherto
enjoyed the, privilege of sending such letters otherwise than
through the Postoffice, but that the Postmaster-General had en-
forced the laws on the subject, and done away with the practice.
He (Lord Ellenborough) did not, indeed, see how the noble duke
(Richmond) could do otherwise, as the existing laws were; but he
thought that it was most desirable that some arrangement
should he made to afford the utmost facilities to the commerce
of the country, so far as related to the transmission of letters.
The Duke of RICHMOND had been most anxious that a peti-
tion of this kind should be presented, that he might have the
opportunity of explaining the circumstances and motives which
had caused him to pursue the course to which the noble lord
had referred. He must admit that there was no duty more im-
perative upon the Postmaster-General than that of giving every
possible facility to the mercantile intercourse of the country;
but the prayer of these petitioners was that they might be per-
mitted to send letters for the United States through Liverpool
or the other outports, free of postage; and he must say that he
thought that compliance,with their prayer in this respect would
lead to considerable loss to the revenue. If the privilege in
question were granted to the merchants of London, there could
be no reason why the Manchester and Birmingham merchants,
and the merchants in all other parts of the kingdom, should not
exercise it also; and the consequence of conceding the prin-
ciple of giving up these inland postages would be, that the con-
cession would be equivalent to the giving up in future of all
such postages upon letters going abroad. The noble duke then
proceeded to deny certain of the statements of the petitioners.
It was not true that the Postoffice had neglected to forward
mail-bags by the fast-sailing ships. In the last year 4888 ship-
letters had been forwarded from London, and from Liverpool
1220 had been sent. Nor was it true that the privilege of
sending letters by other conveyances than those provided by
the Postoffice had existed to the merchants of London during
twenty years. The question was whether or not letters should
be sent by these merchants by stage-coaches, instead of through
the Postoffice; and if a postoffice was to exist at all, he (the
Duke of Richmond) did not see why these petitioners should
be favoured to the exclusion of others, who, if the principle they
advanced were once admitted, would have as good a right as
they had. If the house was prepared to say that a tax upon
letters for the maintenance of a postoffice should no longer exist,
of course he (the Duke of Richmond) could not but bow to
their decision; but he must say that he thought that if taxes
were to be reuced at all, other branches of the revenue might
be found in which the advantages of reduction would be more
universal; he thought that the inhabited house duty was a tax
which might with more
.propriety be abolished. He could not
sit down without observing that attacks had lately been made
in another place upon the department at the head of which he
was, to which he had not had the opportunity of replying. He
had made the most ample inquiries, however, on the subjects to
which those attacks referred, and were it not that as a peer he
could not there reply to arguments used in the other house, he
was in a situation to contradict and correct statements made
by the hon. member for Greenock, respecting which he must
say that he did not think he had been treated by that hon.
member with the candour which one gentleman had a right to
expect from another.

REAL PROPERTY LAWS' AMENDMENT BILL.

On the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR' this bill was read
a second time. The noble and learned lord previously entered
into a statement of the objects proposed to be effected by the
bill.

The Earl of WICKLOW expessed a hope that the operation of
the bill would be extended to Ireland.
On the motion that the house resolve itself into a committee
on the Grand Juries (Ireland) Bill,
The Marquis of WESTMEATH suggested the propriety of the
government directing their attention, during the recess, to some
plan for fixing the amount of salary and fees to be received by
the officers of the different counties in Ireland.

The house then resolved into committee on the bill, to which
some amendments, chiefly of a verbal nature, were proposed
and adopted.
The bill then went through committee. Report on Monday.
The East India Company's Charter Bill was read a third
time, and the amendments of which the Marquis of Lans-
downe had given notice were inserted in it.
The question that the bill do pass was deferred till Monday.
CHINA TRADE BILL.

Lord AucKLANn, after referring to a standing order on the
subject, moved th4l this bill should be referred to a select com-
mittee.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH fully concurred in the motion, and he
was anxious to draw the attention of the house to a particular
clause iu this bill, with regard to which he should feel it ne-
cessary to move an instruction to the select committee which
the noble lord was about to propose. It had been a long-esta-
blished custom of that house to waive any inquiry respecting
anything relating to the imposition of taxes in bills that came
from the other house of Parliament. That such a forbearance
on the part of that house on all occasions, and under all circum-
stances, was for the public benefit, appeared to him to be rather
doubtful, but at the same time be would admit, seeing how long
the custom had existed, that it should not be proposed to their
lordships to depart from it, unless under very extreme circum-
stances indeed. Now, such an extreme case appeared to him
to occur in this bill. In this bill the power of levying taxes was
delegated to the King in council, without any limitation what-
ever. The King in Council was empowered under this bill to
appoint officers at Canton, with powers that were not specified,
to give them such salaries as he might choose, and those officers
would have the power of levying what duties they pleased upon
the goods of his Majesty's subjects trading to Canton. They
would have the power of levying those duties in a foreign coun-
try—in China. He was not aware of any such instance of le-
gislation on the part of the Parliament of this country, and
with a view to discover whether there had been any similar in-
stance of legislation, he would move that it be an instruction to
the committee to search for precedents for the purpose of ascer-
taining whether that house had ever passed a bill delegating to
the King in Council the power of levying dutieson his Majesty's
subjects.
Lord AUCKLAND said that he was as much surprised as the
noble lord that the clause in question contained no limitations.
In the clause as it stood in the bill when originally introduced
thepower proposed to be given by it was limited, and why that
limitation had been afterwards omitted he did not know. In
introducing those superintendents as a substitute for officers that
bad through usage exercised similar powers at Canton for a
long period of time, it was thought necessary, for the protection
of the public interest, and the interest of trade, to give a very
large discretionary power to the government on the subject.—
In the committee which he was about to propose, he would in-
troduce a clause for limiting in some degree that power, and
therefore it would be unnecessary for the noble lord to persevere
in his motion for an instruction to the committee to search for
precedents, as no precedent of the kind could certainly be found.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that under such circumstances he
would withdraw his motion.

Lord AUCKLAND remarked, that the noble lord was correctly
informed when he estimated the expense of those superintend-
ents at from £27,000 to £30,000 per annum, but he believed that
a duty of 10s. upon every £lOO worth of goods would be suffi-
cient to meet the expense. .
The bill was then ordered to be referred to a select commit-
tee, and the committee was accordingly appointed.
ROYAL BURGHS (SCOTLAND BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill, and on the ques-
tion of the postponement of the preamble,
The Earl of HADDINGTON moved, that all the words in the
bill after the word `whereas" be left out, to insert a fresh bill
of a temporary nature, with a view of instituting inquiry before
a final and conclusive measure should be adopted.
This amendment was negatived without a division, and the
preamble was postponed.
Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to, with verbal amendments.
The remaining clauses to the end of the bill were agreed to,
and the house resumed.

The Scotch Burghs Bill then passed through committee.
Both the above bills were ordered to be reported on Monday
next.

A.Cijourned at half-past eleven o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, AUGUST 16.

The Speaker took the chair at a quarter after twelve o'clock,
at which time there was a very thin attendance of members.
Mr. RICE moved that the house resolve into a committee of sup-
Ply
.ord G. SOMERSET said that he did not desire to impede pub-
lic business, but as he had no chance of having another oppor-
tunity of making the observations he desired to submit to the
house, he must trespass on the committee now. He desired to
call attention to the consolidation of the Board of Stamps and
Taxes. He would not complain of arrangements that might be
economical without affecting the efficiency of the departments
and the interests of the revenue, but he thought that in such
consolidations care ought to be taken to secure to the public
the services of the most able, intelligent, and experienced
officers in those departments. In the instance to which he now
alluded, setting aside the claims of the old officers, govern-
ment had appointed as the chairman of the consolidated board
an individual who had never before been in the public service.
The individual to whom he alluded was Mr. John Wood, who
had superseded the two chairman of the late boards, gentlemen
who had long filled their situations with great credit to them-
selves. With regard to one of those individuals, Mr. Mitford,
who had been in the office 36 years, and who was now in the
full vigour of body and mind—why was he to retire ? He knew
that gentleman's ability, and also was aware of the fact that he
was appointed by the late Lord Liverpool to his present situa-
tion, a recent office, on the ground of qualification alone. Mr.
Mitford was to be removed- on a retiring allowance of £B4O,
and was to be superseded by Mr. Wood, who was wholly inex-
perienced in the duties of the office, and who could give no in-
formation, either to the Treasury or the public, respecting the

department to which he had thus been appointed, over the head
of an old, au able, and an experienced officer. He had care-
fully read over the papers on the subject, as far as they were
submitted to the house : and though there was throughout an
evident anxiety to effect the removal of Mr. Mitford, to make
way for Mr. Wood, he in vain looked for the avowal of any
public grounds for arranging the retirement of Mitford. The
correspondence did not appear. Mr. Mitford's objections, if
he had made any, were not stated; but it was almost impossi-
ble not to feel that there was some degree of harshness dis-
played towards an old, valuable, and still efficient officer.
Lord ALTHOIIP said that in the progress of these consolida-
tions and changes several vacancies had occurred without the
government having appointed one personal friend to them; they
had been filled from the departments; but in this particular he
had been very desirous to have the co-operation of one In whom
the government could have the most implicit confidence. ( Hear,
hear.) He did not deny that by the appointment of Mr. Wood,
and the consequent retirement of Mr. Milford, the public would
be subject to a trilling additional charge, but the question was
whether, in effecting great and important reductions in the large
establishments of the country, the government had not a right
to place individuals at the head of those establishments in whom
they possessed the greatest confidence? (Hear, hear.) Mr.
Wood had not been selected on the ground of political adhe-
rence to the ministers, for while in parliament he had often
voted against the ministers; but on the ground of Mr. Wood's
independence, ability, and his personal knowledge of that gen-
tleman, he recommended Earl Grey to make the appointment.
(Hear.) He admitted that Mr. Mitford had always acted with
zeal and ability in the service of the country, but he thought he
should be doing an act of injustice if he did not at the same
time award an equal weed of praise to Mr. Thornton, (hear,)
the chairman of the other board, who had also retired. The
change had only been effected for the purpose of reducing the
public expenditure, and the appointment of Mr. Wood had taken
place, not from political purposes, but to secure to the public
the services of an effective, intelligent, and independent servant.
(Hear, hear.) The consolidation of the two boards would pro-
duce a great saving to the public, not only in the immediate
establishments themselves, but more particularly in the collec-
tion throughout the country. (Hear.)

SUPPLY-COMMITTEE.

The house then went into committee.
Mr. RICE moved that various sums be granted to his Majesty
connected with the civil service, all of which were agreed to.
The house resumed, the Chairman reported progress, and ob-
tained leave to sit again in the evening.
Adjourned at 3 o'clock.

The house resumed at 5 o'clock.

Lord G. SOMERSET brought up the report of the select com-
mittee on the stationery contract.—lt was laid on the table, and
ordered to be printed.
Mr. RICE moved that the order of the day be then read for
the house resolving itself into a committee of supply.