The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1844-03-26 00:00:00

THE IRISH CHURCH.

The following are the speeches of the Duke of
Wellington and the Bishop of Exeter, in the House
of Lords, on Monday night, on the subject of a pe-
tition from Glasgow, on the state of Ireland, pre-
sented by Earl Fitzwilliam, in which was the fol-
lowing diabolical falsehood :—" That one of the
principal grievances of which Ireland has to coin-
plain is the established church, which is not only
exclusive and intolerant in spirit and character, but
opposed to the convictions of the great body of the
people, is used as the tool of political faction, and is
subversive of general tranquility. That such an
establishment does riot admit of being amended, and
must, to obtain the pacification of Ireland., he wholly
abolished."

The Duke of WELLINGTON, speaking in a very
emphatic manner, said—My Lords, I must say that
there can he nothing more inconvenient than the
discussion of such large questions—(hear, hear)--
as the noble lord has entered on in the speech which
he has just delivered upon the mere presentation of
a petition. (Hear, hear.) My lords, those ques-
tions related not merely to the topi s contained in
that petition, to the state of the Protestant religion
in Ireland, or to the compacts that were entered
into for the maintenance of that religion in Ireland,
but they referred to the very foundation of the re-
formation in this country—(hear, hear)—and the
noble lord has propounded to your lordships a
something, neither the nature of which, nor the pe-
riod at which it is to be carried into execution, is he
himself exactly certain of. Something or other must
be done; to that something this country must make
up its mind ; the noble lord does not state what it is
to be—(hear, hear) ;-but it is, at all events, to in-
volve the repeal of those laws upon which the re-
formation in this count-y has been founded. My
lords, I have already taken opportunities of warning
your lordships against the assertion of such doc-
trines in this house, and I must again express a
hope that you will observe and beware how they
are introduced into it, because you may rely upon
it, that there is not an individual in this country, be
his religious opinions what they may, be his posi-
tion what it may, who is no interested in the main-
tenance of the reformation. Not only our whole
system of religion, but our whole system of religious
toleration, in which so many people in this country
are interested, depends upon the laws upon which
the reformation has been founded; and I therefore
entreat your lordships to give no encouragement to
doctrines that might induce a belief that there ex-
isted in this house any difference of opinion upon
the subject of those laws. With respect to the
church of Ireland, 1 beg your lordships to recollect
that it is existed for a period of nearly 300 years;
that it was maintained in that country during a cen-
tury of contests, rebellions, and massacres; that
during a contest for the possession of the crown,
the protestants of the country encountered that con-
test and kept possession of that church; that during
another century it was maintained' through much
opposition, and under difficulties of all descriptions;
and that at the period of the union the parliament,
who had the power either to consent to the union,
or not to consent to it, decided that the protestant
church in Ireland should be maintained, and main-
tained on the same footing as the protestant church
of England in this country, (Hear, hear.) My
lords, the parliament of Ireland had, under the aus-
pices of the king of this country, the power of either
making or not making that compact. Your lord-
ships entered into that compact with the-parliament
of Ireland, and I entreat you never to lose sight of
the fact. I entreat you not to suffer yourselves to
be prevailed on to make any alteration in, or to de-
part in the slightest degree from, the terms of that
compact, so long as you intend to maintain the union
between this country and Ireland. (Hear, hear.) It
is the foundation upon which the union rests—it is
a'compact which you entered into with the parlia-
ment of Ireland, and from which you cannot depart
withoat being guilty of a breach of faith—(hear,
hear)—worse than those pecuniary breaches of faith
which have been alluded to in the course of the dis-
cussion which took place in your lordships' house
this evening upon another subject. I entreat you
to listen to none of these petitions or speeches—
(hear)—which tend to the injury or the destruction
of the church of Ireland. Do what may be neces-
sary—do what it may be proper to do in order to
render that church more beneficial to the people of
that country—but I entreat you to adhere strictly,
in spirit and according to the letter, to the compact
you have made, and not permit it to be supposed in
any quarter whatever that you entertain the most
distant intention of departing, in the slightest de-
gree, from that arrangement. The noble lord says
that the feeling of this country at the present mo-
ment is in favour of that arrangement. I sincerely
hope that is so, and that as long as there is a spark
of honour in the country the same feeling will con-
tinue to be evinced in every part of it. The noble
lord has also stated, and truly, that before the mind
of the country can change so far as to induce it to
depart from that compact, it must first be made up
to undermine the foundation of the reformation in

this country. While waiting for the scheme which,
according to the noble lord, is to be carried out—
God knows, when—l must again entreat your lord-
ships not to think of violating the compact into
which you have entered for the preservation of the
church in Ireland. ' (Hear, hear.)
The Bishop of EXETER said he hoped he might
be permitted to tender his thanks to the noble earl
for having said anything in the statements he had
made, in presenting this petition, concerning the
church of Ireland, which had had the effect of draw-
ing forth the admirable speech of the noble duke.
(Hear, hear.) Most heartily did he thank the noble
earl, although it had come upon him by surprise,
for he had as little expected a debate this evening as
any noble lord could have done. He had found
upon the votes merely that the noble earl would pre-
sent a petition to the house from Glasgow relative to
the state of Ireland. There were one or two things
upon which he (the right rev. prelate) must indulge
himself in making a few observations. The noble
earl had said, with great emphasis, " I will have
nothing to do with spoliation," and put his propo-
sitions upon that ground. [Earl Fitzwilliam smiled.]
The noble earl was amused with his own wit, or
that of the noble lord near him. What was there
that the noble earl thought so absurd—who said it
was spoliation to take parochial property and carry
it up to Dublin, and said, " I will have nothing to
do with that,"—in holding that ecclesiastical pro-
perty should be reserved for the ecclesiastical pur-
poses of the parish and divided between Roman
Catholics and Protestants, that was, that the Pro-
testant rector was to distribute the property as the
noble earl might think fit ? That the noble earl
wished their lordships to consider no spoliation.
(A loud "hear, hear" and a laugh from Earl Fitz-
william.) The noble lord seemed highly amused at
that idea of spoliation. Suppose the church was
robbed of its property (" the church, the church !"
by Earl Fitzwilliam,)—property which it held by as
sacred a title as any of the noble lords opposite held
theirs—as the noble earl held his large property in
the county of Westmoreland ; it was very possible
that they might he forced to disgorge, some of it to
meet the wants of the poor of the parish in which
that property was situated. If he (the right rev.
prelate) were to advocate spoliation he should do it
on the principle the noble earl had stated. Was the
church of Rome the only body which could be dis-
possessed of property which it once held ? Were
the ecclesiastics of the church of Ireland the only
parties who built palaces, as the noble earl said—
though they were not in the habit of building pa-
laces,—were they the only persons fattening on spo-
liation ? Why, the noble earl who had indulged
himself in the language he had employed, and the
noble earl near him, and he saw a noble marquis (a
'oud laugh from Earl Fitzwilliam)—those three no-
ble persons together held as large grants of confis-
cated property in Ireland as any three persons who
could be named. Could those noble lords talk of
taking away property from the church which was
secured to it by the same law by which they enjoyed
the spoliation of two centuries ago ? Let the noble
earl show his patriotism by disgorging the enormous
proportion of confiscated property which he held in
Ireland. (A loud 'laugh from Earl Fitzwilliam.) The
noble earl had been a prophet. He must forgive
him if he (the Bishop of Exeter) became a prophet
too, and foretold that if there were to be a revulsion
in Ireland, and a violation of the rights of property
there, it would lead to the spoliation of lay as well
as church property. Which would go first he was
not prophet enough to foretel ; but one would very
shortly follow the other. He offered his humble
and heartfelt thanks to the noble duke for his speech
to-night. Amongst the great services which it had
pleased Providence to enable him to render to his
country, he believed from his heart, that the noble
duke had never conferred r greater than he had
done to-night.
The petition was laid upon the table.