The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1851-07-08 00:00:00

YESTERDAY'S COUNCIL.

(CONTINUATION FROM PAOE 2.)
to continue. There was Kensington reservoir, it wag
down to half an inch on Thursday last at ten o'clock in
the morning, and continued so until one o'clock on Fri-
day morning. At four o'clock that morning there were
31 inches in it, and at seven again it was quite empty, and
so remained until Sunday at one p.m. This morning at
six o'clock there were 2 feet 7 inches in it instead of
15 feet, or 8,000,000 gallons, the amount it was estimated
to contain. Kirkdale reservoir, at six o'clock on Saturday
morning, contained 11 inches of water. There should
have been 12 feet. Since the dry weather came on, this
reservoir has never been able to keep up any supply. In
Devonshire-place reservoir, at six o'clock on Saturday,
there was but 1 foot 6 inches of water, whilst it would
contain 6 feet 6 inches. In Atherton-street reservoir, at
six o'clock on Saturday, there were but 6 inches, instead
of 15 feet 6 inches. In Church-street reservoir, at six
o'clock on Saturday, there were 3 feet 1 inch, instead of
c 7, feet. These were statements which the engineer would
vouch for, and which could be tested at once. At the Bush
well, the water was pumped down, the engine stopping on
Sunday morning, at six o'clock. On last Monday, there
were 10 feet 5 inches of water, and, at half-past two o'clock
on Saturday, they had to stop, the water being down to the
blast. The amount of water supplied from this engine
last week was 2,224,194 gallons. The Soho engine worked
constantly all week until Sunday morning, when it had to
stop to allow the water to rise. The amount pumped for
the week was 3,878,212 gallons. Hotham-street worked
all week,-18 hours a day, and stopped at six o'clock, the
water being exhausted. Amount of ' water raised
2,096,505. Water-street worked almost const ntly, but
had to stop at six o'clock on Sunday. This well is
allowed to rise in the night, as the whole of the
district is depending upon it. The amount raised during
the week was 3,281,615 gallons. The Windsor engine
has been going incessantly, Sunday included, and it never
had more than 7 inches of water in it. This is the
station, it would be remembered, where Mr. Stephenson
ordered the additional borings to be made, and,
in consequence of this order, borings sixty-three yards
deep were made from the bottom, and from which
an additional quantity of water had been obtained,
no doubt ; but so exhausted is it now that any member of
the Council might go into it, and they would not be wet six
inches above their shoe tops. Then, with regard to
Green-lane : it was doing well enough, but it was drawing
the water away from the neighbourhood; but when the
other pump should be put down in Green-lane, no doubt an
increased supply would be got,—but then they should bear
in mind that the town was increasing rapidly. The amount
taken from Green-lane for the week was 8,338,809 gallons.
The working at Bootle was going on constantly, and from
that source, during last week, 6,725,310 gallons were de-
rived; so that, when all these items were added together,it
would be seen how closely Mr. Hawksley's estimates, in
1848, of the amount the local supply was capable of fur-
nishing, approximated to the general yield These returns
showed that they had a weekly yield of 32,867,151 gals.,
whilst Mr. Hawksley estimated the yield at 29,400,000
gals.; and if the quantity taken for manufacturing purposes
were deducted from that, Mr. Hawksley's estimates would
be found to be correct. So much for the statements
about the yield. He was sure that he had no interest
dearer at heart than the interest of Lir erpool,—(hear)—and
if any gentleman would be affected by any change which
they might make, he himself would also be affected
as much perhaps as most men in Liverpool, This being
the case, he said it with all sincerity that he did hope
Mr. M`Donald would not be sent back to them on the
water committee. He regretted it, but he felt his public
duty to be such that he really could not give any support
to the motion for the re-instatement of Mr. M`Donald.
He hoped the unpleasant feelings which had hitherto
existed would be forgotten soon, and that they would all
work cordially to promote that which they had all at
heart, namely, the best interests of the town.
Mr. THOMAS LLOYD observed that Mr. Holme had
told them the quantity of water which was in the reser-
voir in the morning ; he should like to be informed how
much there was in the evening ?
Mr. S. IloLME.—None.

Mr. BECKWITH asked where Green-lane was pumped
into ?

Mr. HOLME.—Into Kensington

Mr. BECKWITH observed that as Green-lane was only
pumped into the Kensington reservoir in the evening,
and not in the day time, and that as Windsor was also
pumped into it at night, it was very strange that there
should be no more than a foot or two of water in it in the
morning.

Mr. hoLmE.—The engine during the day is pumped
directly into the mains, we have not time to pump into
the reservoir.
Mr. BECKWITH.—I should like to ask what time you
flush the sewers ?
Mr. HoLmE.—We aro so short of water that we do not
flush the sewers with it.

Mr. BECKWITH could not help observing that when ho
was on the committee they had an abundance of water ;
and during the twelve months there had not been
a single complaint of the want of water. Not one single
complaint had been entered on the books. It was a mys-
tery to him how it was possible that there should be such
a scarcity. He was perfectly confident that there was an
abundance of water, and he did not hesitate to say that
he believed there was some foul play in the matter.

Mr. FISHER said the real question was, whether they
were to rely upon the statements of Mr. Holme, or upon
the statements of Mr. M'Donald ? He, for one, could
not give his vote in favour of the amendment, although
the letter of Mr. Kaye states that he considers there was
nothing injurious to the public in the statement that was
made. He was quite sure that Mr. M'Donald had not
done his duty to the Council, and that the Council had
upon all occasions treated him with great forbearance and
great kindness. Under these circumstances he would
♦ote against the amendment.

•
Mr. BIGHAM regretted the :turn which the debate had
assumed. He was sorry, also, that Mr. M`Donald's
name had been mixed up in any way with the Rivington
Pike scheme, for that was now beside the question alto-
gether. Ho did not wish to condemn the committee for
the course they had taken ; but still he thought something
favourable might be said for Mr. M`Donald. He (Mr.
Bigham) thought that Mr. Kaye had not, in his letter,
taken the full share of the blame upon his own shoulders;
for he did not tell the Council that he was the person who
gave the information to Mr. Samuel Holmo, which has
since led to the dismissal of Mr. M`Donald. He for
his own part did not believe that this communication
was ever intended to be made public through the
columns of a newspaper. It was, in fact, he be-
lieved, a conversation which had occurred between Mr.
Kaye and Mr M`Donald without reference to its being
published in any paper. They had been told that the
town had sustained a serious iejury in consequence of this
statement ; but what were the facts. A statement had
been published, which was either true or false. If false,
it required to be contradicted merely; and, if true, it could
do no harm. But how could ho believe the statements of
Mr Duncan, when he found that they had 33,000,000
gallons of water per week, or nearly 15 gallons per head per
diem for the population, which was as much as the board
of health required. But independently of these ques-
tions, he admitted that Mr. M`Donald had acted foolishly
for himself on this subject, but the committee having
now put themselves right, he (Mr. B.) would ask them
to take a favourable view of this man's case, and to
reconsider the matter. He would rather that the com-
mittee themselves took the initiative in doing so than
that such a step should emanate from the Council. He
should like to see them in deference to the generally ex-
pressed opinion, not only of the Council, but of the town
and the press, come forward and say "we will re-in-
vestigate this man's case, and we will show to you
that he will be tried again, and you yourselves shall have
an opportunity of judging whether he merits the judgment
we have passed upon him." He had been told that when
Mr. M`Donald was before the committee his manner was
not polite, that he walked up and down the room, threw
his arms about him, and altogether was rather offensive
in his demeanour. But the committee knew that he never
intended, that he never meant to be offensive;
under the circums

ances would come before
offensive if ho could avoid it, so that whale
his manner mizht have given it was an

offence

which should not be charged against him
Bigharn) would not press the reinstatement o
M'Donald upon them ; but having heard his memorial,

He (Mr
Mr

wherein he expressed sorrow for any offence he may
unintentionally have given, he sincerely hoped that the
committee would take the case into their kindest and best,

,deration

Mr. JONES condemned the course adopted by Mr.
M'Donald, which he declared was subversive of all the
rules of discipline with which he had ever become ac-
quainted. Mr. M'Donald was an impracticable man, one
who would break through .vm, • • • -
till he became their r

ter inste

A of the

servant

He (Mr. Jones) could not consent to have him again
upon the staff of the Water Committee. _ _ _

Mr. LANGSDALE corroborated the statement of Mr.
Holme in reference to the shortness of the water supply ;
and in regard to Mr. M`Donald, he observed, that he had
disobeyed orders so frequently, that they could not get
on with him. His temper was so bad, that it was impos-
sible to manage him.
Mr. FERNIHOUGH would rather the case had been met
in the only way which it could be met by the friends of
Mr. M`Donald. He, for one, would acknowledge that
his conduct was indefensible, and that the Water Com-
mittee could do neither more nor less than what they had
done on the occasion; but he did not think it right or
proper to bring into a question of this kind the often-
debated subject of water supply. He could not deny that
Mr. M'Donald had done wrong, and in his memorial
the man himself had, with candour and frankness,
admitted his error, and expressed his deep regret
for the past. Such, then, being the case, he (Mr.
Fernihough) appealed to them for mercy, and he trusted
the committee would show it. They should bear in mind
that this was a question which had agitated the whole town;
a question in which they had all said and written a great
deal that were better left alone ; and. if so, he would ask
them were they going to look upon this man as the great
sinner,—as the only one who had offended. He hoped
that, as the feeling of the Council was to lean towards
mercy, the committee would kindly give him another
trial. There was aucther consideration which he would
urge upon them, and that was Mr. M'Donald's family,
who had in no wise offenecd ; but who, if they dismissed
himself, must necessarily share the evils of his indiscre-
tion. With these remarks, he trusted the committee would
take a favourable view of the case, and that they would
give him yet another trial, at least.
Mr. PICTON urged upon the Council the propriety
of the committee suggesting some course less severe than
the one now proposed in reference to Mr. M'Donald. He
contended that, as it was notorious that the proceedings

of their most confidential committees were published
about town in ten minutes after any committee adjourned,
it was not fair to visit so heavy an infliction on Mr.
M' boned.

Mr. S. HOWE wished to remind the Council that they
had a duty to perform to the public as well as to Mr.
M`Donald, who, being a servant of the Corporation,
should have had his lips sealed upon all matters relating
to their business. There was one observation of Mr. Big-
ham's which he wished to correct. It bad been stated that
the present supply yielded 15 gallons per head per day.
But what were the facts? From the amount set down,
they had to make the following reductions, and it would
be seen, when that was done, there would be nothing
like 15 gallons per head remaining. They had to deduct
for watering streets, 285,000 gallons ; for baths, 100,000
gallons ; for docks, 100,C00 gallons ; for the Lancashire
and Yorkshire Railway Company, 97,000 gallons ; and for
Mr. M'Fie, the great sugar refiner, 98,000 gallons daily.
When these deductions were made, it would be clear
that there was no such amount for human use as
fifteen gallons per head. In regard to Mr. M'Donald,
he would ask them were they prepared for another agita-
tism on the subject ? (No, no, no.) Well, they all knew
that the water agitation began with that man, and he
(Mr. Holme) had no hesitation in saying that he had been
the means of spending £30,000 of the public money—(no,
no, no)—and in defiance of all that bad been done for
him he was still as refractory as before. He did hope
that the Council would not force back upon the committee
a servant who in a few weeks would again be committing
the same fault.

Mr. PARKER urged upon the committee, that they
should not throw overboard a servant who had spent
twenty years of his lifetime in their service, for a fault so
trifling as this, and suggested, that perhaps some compro-
mise might be arranged by which a transfer of situations
might be effected.

Mr. COOPER having replied, the amendment was put
and lost by a majority of 35 to 3. The annexed is the
vote :

For:—Councillors J. Thomson, A. Henderson, and
Alderman Parker. Against :—Councillors T. Chalmer,
Bigham, Woodruff, Hodson, Atkinson, Wm. Nicholson,
Godfrey, Holden, Littledale, C. Turner, Hornby, Avison,
Fernihough, J. Holme, J. Gladstone, jun., Wagstaff,
Rogers, Fleming, Jones, Neill, Johnson, Picton, Beck-
with, Hindley, S. Holme, Fisher, T. Lloyd, and Gregson,
Aldermen Langsdale, Holmes, Dover, Cooper, Molyneux,
J. H. Turner, and the Mayor.
Mr. BIGHAM then moved another amendment, to the
following effect :—" That so much of the proceedings of
the Water :Committee as relates to Mr. M`Donald be
postponed for a month." He would not offer a single
observation further, but merely throw the suggesticn
which this amendment offered before the committee.
Mr. THOMPSON having seconded the amendment,
Mr. JAMES HOLME hoped they would not send Mr.
M'Donald to the committee again. In fact they would
not have him.

Mr. A. JONES said however much his heart was against
the observation, either Mr. M`Donald must quit, or he
(Mr. Jones) would leave the Water Committee.
The Council again divided, when the numbers stood—
For the amendment, 15 ; against, 23 : majority, 8. The
vote stood as follows :

For: —Councillors Chalmer, Thomson, Bigham, Atkin-
son, W. Nicholson, Godfrey, Holden, Fernihough, Rogers,
Fleming, Beckwith, A. Henderson, Hindley, and T.
Lloyd. Alderman Parker. Against :—Woodruff,
Hogson, Littledale, C. Turner, Hornby, Avison, J.
Holme, Gladstone, Wagstaff, Jones, Neill, Johnson,
Picton, S. Holme, Fisher, and Gregson. Aldermen
Langsdale, J. Holmes, Dover, Robinson, Molyneux,
J. H. Turner, and the Mayor.
The remaining proceedings of the Water Committee
were then confirmed nem. dis.