The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-07-23 00:00:00

JULY 23 19ao-0
.

of LenoredfirtuN karr said he begged leave to assure the noble lord
lyith th et, which was, that the persons who were not( watching.
the _ e deepest anxiety for the failure of the present bid, were
the 17;7 persons who were carrying on the conspiracy against
ea_
~.utetant church. The right rev. prelate had not been very
asa,c,li.ll in stating the purpose of the measure, for he had argued
abolition
bill proposed to effect only one object, and that the
was of
the' cess. Now, that, though a very material,
m: not the only object of the bid. He Was not disposed to
rrel with the light rev relate's statement that the establish-
ea the Protestant church in Ireland, considered as a whole,
was
tot_ean overgrown one; but he certainly thought that there
„ad
aou poitian of the establishment very much overgrown,
v tiother portion he would say, for want of a better term,
(211i:such tinclergrown. The bid proposed to take from some
a,basel mealbet's of the establishment a portion of their super-
tret,
rant wealth, and to divide it amongst their less fortunatead
all _.`; ell- Auuther object was the building of churches, 'il
tao.teer the building of glebe houses:. The right rev. prelate
ri,."dteentered into calculations to show that no fund could I e
euder the bill beyond the sum which was necessary
that the 'payment of vestry cess; but he had•no doubt
that if tile bill should go into committee, it would be found
I,lthe right reverend prelate was entirely' mistaken.—
sight were specimens of the absence of consideration which the
the 1, r_ev- prelate had brought to this discussion. He said that
he ~e3trY cess was not considered by the Irish as an evil; but
~....L.Lntord Plunkett) spoke in the presence of noble lords ac-
and":ll, ed with the state of Ireland, ou both sides of the house,
do he appealed to them whether the vestry cess was not consi-
tl;ere4 a grievance of the utmost enormity, and felt as such by
sh. Poorer classes : from its very nature it was calculated to be
teaatl(le4l%) A wretched being unable to provide for the ses-
whiol ef his family, to be taxed for the service of a church with
prelate contended no connexion, and for which, as..the right rev.
, he entertained an habitual dislike ? ( Hear.
ths,"4TdPlunkett) wantedno evidence further ; and he asked
i --e
nebl dattached
-s L.&
~-or s who were to the Protestant interest.
aaeve.anu, and who wished .to strengthen that interest,• to ie-1
theinserit_i of those burdens of which agitators seetaknttonhauvracih
of Irel--"'s in
their attempts to overturn the ?rotes
alone ,lnd• It was a serious grievance, and on that account
the interest"lewanted this soothinq and salutary measure to protect
i,
~.,.s of that church. Government, seeing the dangers
to raise that church was placed,. thought. it incumbent uonit
per,'" a lurid that should be applied strictly to ecclesiastical
Ors r°Bes, and they- had recommended- to his Majesty to signify
r- 'absent to a measure being introduced into the other house
Perlis
Iles bil, merit to effect that purpose. The other house had passed
fur a 11'1e, Lot with any levity,, as the *right rev. prelate supposed,
that, asure cduld not have been conducted with mucti levity
the„`°4 three months to discuss. (Hear.) The measure had
hikseT,lne !o this house ,_• and the right rev. prelate had thought
th ut,,, chhtled to say of it,—and it was unice;tenate that
.he
ofQpi.„" so sPeak Orstich a: meashre,—that it sanctioned spolialpu
that get!), and robbery: Hear, hear.) "Was it an allegation
ill_ drharnent had no tight to legislate respecting the property
140..7 church? Was it an allegation that this was
.a matter
kte'defthe la*? (Hear; hear.) That was not a doctrine ealces
'4 (lir the present day. (Cueers.): He (Lord Pluukett) didt
'f the eekr from' anyepinion he'had eutertainedas to thyntoopeer ,
'acted ref?. He still held the property ot the chute i bt. ae
Proper 'Posit. Nothing was more idle than to ask whether li
li4lae tY of the church was or was not. under the control of Par-
(Hear4t; But
property was under the control of Parliament:—
tool 4, iota when he said so, he felt. that it was a grave thing
oe ad ,v with that property, unless in a case of necessity.—
was prtned that, in a certain- sense, the property of the church
necessity.—
pro 4,e
t
.property; it was, however, like other church e
',"°estY,'whieh was private property in the same seese as
"11, '' and might be applied to the purposes of the corpora-
an
is . ' • •
, wa, , 'a as within the power of Parfiainent so to apply it-
"ever . contended that iu concurring iu this enactment the_
lists- efisga would be violatin the oath he took at the corona
~bs,r leTisa_t, in short, the coronation oath opposed an insuperable
gsert,7 sanction of such a measure. He would. take the
,4141 he "" state his notion with regard to the coronation oath,-
',,tiros would state, candidly and fairly, that he had. no recol
leatieir`uat the oath was stied in former times in a different
Ist eel that in which it was now used. It appeared to him
lthe ke coronation oath was a contract entered into between.
'eeea itell!and his subjects, lay as well as ecclesiastical,—be-
ndia v one as well as the other. This-contract was equally
but with,, all, not simpl binding with respect to. the. clnch,
say th if to the wyhole people. Be would go Jurther.and
Nete!t if the oath produced the people with whom.it wasicrconnaT
itteat". 90 benefit, then it might be 'diverted from its or ~i_
its
Preesaii,but as to its implying a compulsory discharge
_of
_in_
Kterts,4lB when that performance would be contrary to the i
'lst Et" the parties with whom the oath was contracted, from
,Opi4io octrine
~, „ he solemnly protested. The oath was, in his
Ilekecellere`ning more thair -a solemn
.attestation, in the pre-
mst e God between the King and his subjects. (Hear, hear.)
ells thon:t,raet, like all other contracts, might surely be put an
,tslted ,‘,!,atil the consent of the parties contracting. If it were
'O
p "'nether the coronation oath vsere merely a vow between
,ktty atnr'iLesi and understood to bind in ems-sense -ia which each
h,.l,testai;°' it, he would answer yes; it was merely a solemn
cllit ;',''a between man and man • and in this latter meaning
-IY, e "01 the case arise in which' all classes of the people,
46ii, ,:e4 the King himself, might desire its abrogation e But
tialloe tisid this bed On...• how coin' *the general wishes of the
dit4(l itrueev Fatified; if.' the oath were registered in heaven
lesk„ °cable ? (Loud cries of
Itsa. vet sepuld " Heer.") Such ato pge
put every species of- improvement 1-1,-4 it. „„._, ,
ram 'um be impossible to escape from its trammels.
LNa4. a 1,1`,e.(1 that the reservation of the church as established
'" to v ,h4,-Leatental article 0f the Act of Union, nor did he
n.mweaans
ikQteit;alait even if there was no coronation oath the Kin,,
4t "Y bound to the maintenance and preservation of b.oth.
ti article '
Litiee. and the church establishment: the King was just
~,,measure
jilt hound as he was under a thousand oaths. It had never
~,,kess„eauled by his noble 'friend or the government to propose
dodo ho was ca. lculatecCeither to injure or overthrow the
Oci so, '• so tar fiom the resent measure being calculated
,„47Iesies ne would. maintain present measure being calculated
would maintain that
.the proposed measure was
hsultreh and would have the effect of.” oil),
.preserving the
lie kit the rights and privileges of its =eaters, and that
~bllellst'sit was passed, speedily,
,danger to the establishment
111 ue feared. (Hear.) • Ire could not shut his eyes to the
st:h?feithe times, and he saw the danger in which the Pro-
NT 'lurch of Ireland stood, and he feit the difficulty to
Hear,) it, not against its enemies, but against its friends.
Z,80,„4 He would say, then, do not delay this bill, but pass
te ti, ilev • for by' lelai it mir,oht become inefficient or,-at least,
'44"e ua'tholic EmancipitiOn Bill it might be said that this
titti,,l,N had not been passed in tile' e. He would also desire the;,:iordships to look back -to. the -13111;-13111;-and remind
tl that when their lordships had seen evils staring them in
bt tilles, which it was impossible to mistake as being violations
IIN tconstitution, yet they had refesed toiemove those evils,
getit,ge refusal had' come hack Upon them to an extent that
lier resistance was impossible:. Such had been the conse-
'4 ti! of their pertinacious Opposition to the reform measure,
~,%troar,`",e feelings and passions of the people had become so
,411 s ,61Y excited. it became dangerous longer to refuse assent.
"otl,'"Ple expeCted to be represented,
.and when so, that the
bL'eh uf reform shOuld proceed.. .
it e tart. f M •se 'LD opposed the measure, and concluded
Lthealitiss b°y observing that he should infinitely prefer seeing
ite 'st'lau Catholic religion established in Ireland, as the.pres-
- e.,11-eo. religion was established in Scotland, to the passing of
41.1)tsre-„eout measure, which m.ntilated the Protestant church,
Its tr,„ e encourage in the minds of Roman Catholics hopes
tilli'll'''ut extinction.
ri g to hope, from the
a ,e ef ve, Lens of LANsnowNE was wi...n,,, .
'Nei 'tat he had heard, and from the temper manifested_ h
tkea urtirds who certainly were not prejudiced in favour of the.._
~,t'srie:that other opportunities would be afforded for dis
ester re subject hereafter by the house now assenting to. the_
44
44-eaajing• 'He thought some advantage would be derived
t)steti h einpt to heal wounds that had been caused and kept
Pit . i an
to ,Illui, ~llnwiliingness, on the one. hand, to admit of the ap-
so,,Seep °,,Proper remedies, and by a disposition on the other
Cge h ative rankling animosities. They had been • told b) 0, ',hie i
il`.4e 00 or s that t ey were prec u e r .
d 1 l d d f om adopting the
si Pei it w proposed by some immutable law or rule which xen-
t:W to its Possible to touch the established church even with
.e
(I, 41t0a,le,s benefit and improvement. If so, of course it would
dtletley6 Lher useless to enter into those considerations of expe-
lekde oe°at'„w,hich, notwithstanding the denunciation of the noble
able pied he thought it indispensebie to rest his vote: But
te e obsta ,n to the existence of this preliminary and insuper-
Wefos,, 1.". If, however there ready was such an obstacle
sa'ed tcet'..o die church, the' last conclusion he should be ilis-
keestabliTw from its existence would be as to the safety
.of
thteleeed.shment in reference to which all improvement was
batestswi„ (Loud Cries of " Hear, hear.") II the abuses of
h„ sehiColnent were permitted to continue, the church would
Inc 4 1,4 ~,it the spectacle of a great and flourishing constitu-
In ;°4111,-i°ol,l gradnaliv.assume a character of decay and ruin..
it e e b oil let him adil, that if their lordships should concur
4 tn ite before them, as he hoped they would, he did augur
tcrth'ls it,ssing into a'law not a rapid but a gradual, safe, and
a e„,stej,j,llrovemen* i 'the fortunes of Ireland, not excluding
(03e tee Chur'ehtland all interests connected with it, and
~,ese,ret stimulus in the general prosperity of. that country.
t• The' lie ear !)
. . .
tIli; "Ike of Cumberland and Earl Grey rose at the-same
the e easi . . . . ,
le,,,dehatule earl observed, that, as they could not hope to bring
k Zs whne to a close that night, as there were yet so many noble
tl'`latio" °'ould probably take a share in the discussiou, and as
tit"' hen iiV,ttlo noble marquis (Londonderry) stood for to...inor-
•ksti ,h'''"ed, to sug rest to the noble marquis the expediency
liti s 44'he-his motions relative to Portugal to a future day.
gibe diannis of LONDONDERRY was understood to.constat ;
[lt h.. uot hear to what day he postponed his motion.
h° slot
adjourned at half-past one o'clock.
'pi, tloiT ___________
Lot .
altwei.SE OF COMMONS, TUURSDAY, JULY 18.
ei,i 41 A y was opeued at a quarter past twelve.
s'e t• slriltr moved.the oruer of the day, that the house re-
T 'elf i
v e 11„ oto committee upon the Factories' Regulation Bill.
ei4+4,ed re then went into committee.
I,e fir,:-Tlio RP suggested the propriety of taking the second
tile rd 4.4% it involved the greatrincile of the Is.ill.
'll,3Jellenit", LEY, aceeded to the propositiondeclarnag that if
Thld hnlee cecided against hiin on the second clause, he
ille i' nrst ,V)anderi the other parts of the bill,
Leglir. •I ause Was then postponed, and the Second put from
Vtd kta
84' called tleuP rose and said, the question the committee
Oro the upon to decide was whether the number of hours
of ellie,rilto4sgtaeltd(eig,lirt,een years) 'mentioned in the clause were
DroteO tee, . • A he first point was, were persons of the age
tee setioa .elrs to he considered as children requiring legal
Pl.O'Ol4EO i. , And the second was did the committee consider
,14„1:10,.se in 4ot
10, n r. _ ! a c h day. too much or too little?. He.didnnotot
tin A per,o : way to interfere with the protection given being his os ov S'ir J. protection
bill. So far from that
t °lject:he
otif extetdo _ . would at once consent to .its .provisions
teescised he
duninother mills than cotton ones. (Clieers.)
very
i)lletCrdble ap,,r''k at the bill then in committee w!th
kp, er the , e eu.cosion. (Hear, hear.) The question was,
Itkl a tendencyurnitation of hours proposed in the bill would not
)ss Iteelear t to produce such a calamity. He thought it'
~gaff
age es at ifAheY prevented all persons under eighteen.
L141111:4 4-I:relar tile) an7tPhwtnrreknitn.tghelonger than ten hours a dav, the
manufacturers from working their.
orsshing. th Pegod- Then, what would be the effect of
4 -i ' e manufacturing labour of the country to ten
%,,siii',ntires were unfett
j.„f..., when all other nations who were rivalling
us in
might be
1/4gly ef tress? It ered.m their mode of conducting. their
I,lBes ect of it Would 1') and it had before been said, that the.
't,:l'I!(1 ieaPital, and b .e to
k:tOte4.4,34l):ethh_e, ineterest u make the manufacturers embark a
Odd more mills, so that the only loss
pon the extra capital. (Hear, hear.) ii'ssVi...Presendiat,b en told, and he believed it to be the case, that Itiraqis, at tile 'roe, though in full work the manufacturers were
(Ist.til°eeduetion wnestt possible profit .'if' therefore, any consi-
-044
not
s r„rhatrotit,took place, the effect would be
tilia). eenti'cm . 5. would oe working at a loss, and they
08 'ltran„. 4i- their business. The conse uence, therefore,
tf °f tl ^ernelit that w
htile w r'Pr'ills would ol!‘
'cl 'diminish materially'g the opera-I,eut 13t. -nlet• ' Thos act in a similar manner on the wages
oe t.,
_elle every
_oe wages, it was well known, were at the
, y 1
ilfed with a d:
'°lll/,41.he seericYtig'an dorate he thought that the advan-
q only working for ten hours a-day, ac-
iSte,`t)e eat. ~,earuninution of their wages, would not confer
ot.'.llBe vcollu,'
..) The house had heard a great deal of the
h': oe, employed ip these manufactories had upon the health of
itlt the
t, gesierata. It had Leen stated before the COrimailte.e
tlp e,i,, Ppearanee rif tbe young persoes was pallid,
eence before the mnowasioners it had been stated

that that was generally in the boys, but tliat the girls were as
healthy as they possibly could be. With respect to the
.defor
may of the person, it was in evidence that most cases.of
fortuity had occurred when the machinery was differently con-
structed, and at a time when the operation of the machinery so
constructed had a tendency to produce deformity. Having
these views, he must 'confess that he did not look to any altera-
tion in the present system with any degree of confidence, but
with fear and trembling. However, he was inclined, and he
thought that was going as far as the legislature could safely
proceed—to protect those who were totally unable to protect
themselves; and in his opinion that protection ought to be ex-
tended to children not having entered their 14th year. The
recommendation of the commissioners was, that they should.
not work more than eight hours a-day, and in that recom-
mendation he was inclined to acquiesce,• because he did not
think the effect of adopting that course was likely to be de-
structive of the interests of the manufacturers of the country.
The noble lord, after again beseeching the committee to act
with caution, concluded by proposing,, as an amendment, that
instead of the word "eighteen" the word "thirteen" should be
inserted ; expressing, at the same time, his intention of follow-
ing that up by substituting "eight" instead of "ten" hours,
agreeable to the recommendation of the commissioners.
Lord Astmor said if the noble lord was unwilling to take
upon himself the responsibility of the measure, he (Lord Ash-
ley) was quite willing to take all responsibility on himself to.
the extent of his proposition, and should always rejoice at the
result. He was much astonished to hear the minutes referred
to as not affording allegations of the evils arising from the pre-
sent mode of employing the children. Had the noble lord read
the evidence of lir. Loudon ?
Lord ALTHORP.—Look at the others. _

Lord ASHLEY:---Well, he would do so; he would turn also to
that of Dr. Hawkins. But first of Dr. Loudon. That gentle-
man stated that the present prolongation of labour was an act
of the utmost cruelty. He protested against the proposition of
the noble lord, because he knew the difficulties that would at-
tend it. He took his stand originally, and he took his stand
now, entirely ou the testimony of the medical men, that ten
hours a-day were sufficient for females not eighteen years old.
Lord ALTIIORP proposed (it being three o'clock) that the
chairman should report progress.
The house • resumed, the chairman reported, and obtained
leave to sit this evening.
The Speaker then quitted the chair.

The Speaker resumed the chair shortly after five o'clock.
LOCAL COURTS.

Mr O'CONNELL postponed until this day next week his mo-
tion, " That it is the duty of the reptesentatives of the people
of this realm to take measures for the more expeditious; conve-
nient, and cheap administration of justice by the establishment
of local courts of judicature."
Mr. WASON moved for a return of all orders in council under
which slaves hactbeen • transported to Demerara from the Ba-
hamas, or any other British- colony, since the peace in 1815;
as also for the.ay.erage price which-such slaves produced at the
judical sales during the period. of any such transportation. ..
The house then went into. :.ounnittee op the
' • FACTORLGaI.TEN I.IOCESr4.BILL.
When the discussion on the amendment proposed by Lord
Aliborp was resumed.
On a division the ()umbers were—
For the oliginal clause 93
For Lord Althorp's amendment 238

Majority
On the admission of strangers, . .
Lord ASHLEY said .that as this bill had now,. after a full dis-
cussion, been fairly defeated, it would ill become• him to offer
any further interference. It. was now at the disposal of his Ma-
jesty's government. He (Lord Ashley) had not taken up the
bill- from any desire merely to obtain popularity, but he had
been actuated solely by a wish, if posSible,.to benefit the work-
ing classes of this country; and he could . only say. in addition,
that into whose ever hands the bill might. pass for disposal,
might Gud prosper his endeavours. (Cheers.)

WEST INDIA SLAVERY.

On the suggestion of Mr. STANLEY, in. answer to a question.
from Mr". Stewart, (as we' understood,) this question was post-
poned until Monday.
The remaining orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the house adjourned at half-past one.

HOUSE OF LORDS, FRIDAY, JULY 19.
CHURCH TEMPORALITIES (IRELAND) BILL.
The order of the day for resuming the adjourned debate on
the above bill having been read,
The Earl of ELDON rose, consistently with his deep sense of
public duty, to oppose this measure. He well knew what had
been going on in this country for the last forty years; and if
the same system were pursued for some time longer, he believed
that there would be no House of Lords. (Hear; hear.) Let
noble lords look to what had been doing for the last twelve
months. Was it not evident;froin thnse proceedings, that there
was a determined conspiracy on foot to put an end to that
house? (Hear, hear.) Such was the fact; and nothing could
preserve the House of Lords but a determination at ail hazards
to do their duty firmly. (Hear, hear.)" 'He' had' been raised
to his present rank from a'verV huinble situation; he therefore
was not insensible to the interests, the real interests of the peo-
ple.. But, undoubtedly, he was opposed to the practices which
had recently prevailed amongst them. He clearly saw all the
consequences that were likely to follow from what was now
going forward in the country ; and their great duty was to re-
store to the house that character which it enjoyed three or four
years ago. (Hear, hear.) If they did not, a very short time
would elapse before it would happen that re individual would
have an opportunity of addressing ia House of Lords in that
room. (Hear, hear.) It was a matter of little importance to
him, for his life drew near its close ;, but he 'was determined in
supporting the rights of that house, to submit to all consequences,
rather thau abandon one of them. (Hear, hear ) The high
in rank, the high in mind, the high in opulence, ought all to
unite in securing the independent powers of that house.—
The bill itself appeared to him to be one of the most extraor-
dinary that ever was introduced to their lordships' house. Could
they conceive, knowing what they did of this bill, that it would
be the limit of change and alteration? (Hear, hear.) As a
peer of that house, treinblingly'alive to its interests, he would ask,
could' any one amongst them doubt that innovation would not
end here? (Hear, hear.) If such a doubt existed in the mind of
any noble lord, he then would say, that he knew much less of
what was going on in .the-country-than lie (Earl' Eldon) did.
(Hear, hear.) He' would, however, at all risks and at all
hazards perform his duty. The people of this country, one of
whom he was, and one of whom he hoped he still remained,
were misled.' (Hear, hear.) The bill then before their lord-
ships was a direct., a clear, a plain fraud on the Protestant,
establishment of this country (hear, hear,) and he would oppose
it to the utmost. (Hear, liear.) A noble lord opposite had
said that he was a friend to the Protestant establiShment, but an
enemy to its abuses. He (the Earl of Eldon) was nota friend
to abilses of any kind; but when abuses were talked of, they
ought to be pointed out. He perceived that, by the bill, churcli-
rates, as now collected, were to be removed. Now, was there
a man who would say, when that system was done away with in
Ireland, that church-rates would continue to be collected in this
country? (Hear, hear.) The thing was impossible. There
was already one parish in the metropolis where divine service
was suspended, in consequence of the refusal of the parish-
ioners to agree to the customary rate. (Hear, hear.) lie felt
that he had trespassed too long on their lordships' time and
attention ; but he felt it necessary, even if it were the last pub-
lic act of his life, as perhaps it would be, to protest against this
measure. (Hear, hear.) He could not have retired from that
house with comfort or satisfaction if he did not bear with him
the self-conviction of his mind, that he had honestly done his
duty. (Hear, hear.)
the Bishop of LONDON in a Jesuitical speech supported
the second reading.
The Archbishop of DUBLIN would not hastily give his assent
even to the second reading of this bill, unless he had maturely.
weighed the consequences and considered whether any better
means could be devised for meeting the exigencies of the
present crisis. The present question was so fully, discussed by
much snore able and practised debaters-than himself, that it was
not necessary for him to enter into the discussion of the general
subject, and the more so as his general opinions had been given
before a committee of their loid-ships a year and a half ago, and
the evidence was now on the table of the house. It was un-
necessary for bins to remind their lordships that there was at
present a large body of persons in England, as well as in Ire-
land, hostile to the existing constitution, to the church, to that
house, and, above all, to that bench, and who were at that mo-
ment hovering, like vultures over a field of battle, waiting to
prey upon the corpses of those that should be struck down in
the conflict. He, therefore, confidently hoped and trusted that
their lordships would disappoint the expectations of those per-
sons by laying aside all party feelings at the present moment,
and by milting cordially together in devising measures for se-
curing the safety and stability of existing institutions in church
and state. Let their lordships do so, instead of indulging in
personal reproaches and splenetic attacks, things that could
only afford a subject for rejoicing to the enemies of their lord-
ships and the enemies of the country.
the Archbishop of CANTERBURY said that it was always with
considerable pain that he found himself opposed, upon any pub-
! lic question, to his Majesty's ministers. It was a position which
he might say was hardly suitable, and which was certainly al-
' most new for an archbishop of Canterbury; and he must ac-
knowledge that he was not prepared for it, and that he had it
not in contemplation when he was raised to the station which
he now filled, and that, in fine, he had not been prepared for it
by his previous habits of life and by his mode of thinking. It
had hitherto been the policy and practice of the government, in
all regulatiens respecting the church, to consult the heads of
the church-in the first instance, before such Measures were
brought forward. (" Hear, hear," from the opposition.) If,
then, there should happen to be any differences of opinion, they
might be settled by amicable dismission in private, and such a
mode of proceeding had the advantage of preventing any hos-
tile collision in public between the ministers of the Crown and
the heads of the church—au advantage which he considered to
to he a very great one indeed. (Hear.) He by no mean's con-
! cursed in the notion that the bishops of the cliiirch should im-
plicitly submit to the eietation of the government. But he felt,
he would- not say the unfitness, but the great inconvenience of
the situation in which he was placed, in being obliged to oppose
those persons on whom they (the bishops) must lean for support.
Another disadvantage under which he lay on this occasion was,
that, in opposing a measure even with the name of reform, he
incurred the danger of being supposed to be au enemy to all
reform. (Hear, hear.) lie ran the risk, under such circum-
stances, of having his conduct attributed to the worst of motives,
—either to those of party feeling, which he had never exhibited,
or to those of private interest, though he had really none in the
case, (hear, hear,) or, in fine, to a bigoted prejudice that was
opposed to every species of innovation whatever. On those acs
counts, and for the reasons he had mentioned, he had stated as-
much as he could, to himself and to others, what reasons could
be assigned for supporting this bill, and he was sorry to say.
that he could not collie to the conclusion that he could-give it
his support. (Chem; from the opposition.) They were told
that !Una measure was a boon to the people of Ireland for the
coercion bill. He did not regard it as such; The coercion bill
had, like magic, restored peace and tranquillity in that country,
and it was itself, therefore, a real boon to the country. He was
of opinion, that the vestry cess should be thrown on-the land-
lords, so as to relieve the occupiers of land in 'lreland 'from it.
A board sitting in Dublin could never manage with advantage
the affairs of distant churches,—it could not forma proper
judgment of the sums really required for repairs, &c.,—it could
nqt maintain an effectual superintendance, except through
agencies, which might not be always trust-worthy, but which
would be invariably expensive. (Hear.) Under' such a sys-
tem of management economy could hardly be expected; and
how was the tax to be made up, if it should prove deficient, ex-
cept by imposing additional burdens on the clergy? The result
would be, that the clergy must be greatly impoverished, and
nothing would be wanting but a poor-rate in' older to complete
their ruin. He was equally opposed to a transfer of the charge
of vestry cess to the clergy and to an alienation of bishops'
lands. 'But supposing the measure carried into effect, what
were to be its results? One of its objects was stated-to be con-
ciliation—a most desirable thing; he freely admitted, more espe-
cially in Ireland; where; if Protestants-and Catholics could be
brought to coalesce (it was a mere truism to say that), the
country would be _completely- happy. But he was afraid that
this attempt at conciliation would fail (hear), seeing that
the object was to be attained, not merely by concession,
, but by sacrifice, and that tha Property and feelings of one
',party were to be, hurt by what was given to the other.
Not to delay their lordships any longer,. he should object to this