The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-03-31 00:00:00

lishment of an University for the education of dissenters if placed
under proper regulations. It was his misfortune to have scruples
as to the admission of dissenters to the two Universities, but
having those scruples, he wished to see the means afforded of
giving the soundest education given in other institutions to the
members of that body, and indeed he regretted that this one of
the London University was not better supported by the dissen-
ters than it had been. but his reason for supporting the amend-
ment in preference to :he original motion was, that though he
had nothing on bie mind which was not favourable to the gene-
ral proposition of the hon. member for Truro (Mr. Tooke), he
was still anxious for further information on the subject, and it
was only his desire to obtain that information which induced
him to vote for the amendment. Indeed, so strongly was he
disposed in favour of the London University that, as a subscrib-
ing member to it, he did not assent to the exclusions which the
hon. member (Mr. Tooke) had consented to make in asking for
the charter. On all these grounds he would at present oppose
the original motion, but not because be concurred iu the rea-
sons stated by the hon. baronet (Sir IL Inglis.)
Mr. WA [taut:Toll would, if the present administration would
bring forward a proposition for uniting the King's College and
the London University as one general university endowed with
powers of granting degrees, consent to the withdrawal of the
motion.

Mr. BA RING thought the real question before the house was,
whether it would be useful to confer upon the London Univer-
sity the power of granting degrees. Much had been said about
the monopoly of the two universities by the gentlemen on the
liberal side of the house (a laugh), but he would ask, if they
were prepared to confer a monopoly on the London University
over other institutions already established fur academic and
literary instruction? He hoped the matter would be postponed
until the report of the privy council was laid before the house.
(Cries of " Divide.")
Sir ROBERT PEEL took for granted that those who were so
anxious for an immediate division without any discussion, were
fully acquainted with the nature of the motion before the house.
He thought that those who had not read the report of the law
officers were not the best qualified to place the restriction con-
tained in the latter part of the motion upon the required act of
the crown. There might be reasons good for restricting the
proposed charter in respect of degrees of divinity, but Ise should
like to know why any restriction should be proposed with refer-
ence to medicine? He was the more anxious for a reply to this
inquiry, inasmuch as he had an account of the state of the
London University in the year 1833, from which it appeared
that there were in that year 480 students attending that institu-
tion; of these 293 were students in medicine, 113 students in
the arts, and 74 students at law. (Hear, hear.) It required
explanation why to-night the house should be called upon to-
address the crown to give the privilege to this institution of con-
ferring degrees to about 190 students in the arts and law, and
at the same time advise a restriction which went to exclude from
degrees 293 students in medicine. (Hear, hear.) He could
not see the justice of this proposition even upon the showing of
its supporters. The question hat already been before the -house,
and had !teen by the crown referred to the privy council.' Ought
the crown, then, now to be called upon to disparage the autho-
rity of the privy council, and to grant a charter, without refer-
ence to the opinions of that body referred to? (Hear.) The
committee of the privy council had consisted of the then Lord
Chancellor (Lord Brougham), the Archbishop of Canterbury,
the Archbishop of York, the Marquis of Lansdowne, the Earl
of Ripon, the Duke of Richmond, Earl Grey, the Bail of
Eldon, the Earl.of Carlisle, Lord John Russell, the Bishop of
London, Lord Holland, Lord Lyndhurst. Lord Denman, Lord
Chief Justice Tindal, Lord Melbourne, and Lord Stanley.
(Hear, hear.] He (Sir R. Peel) could not conceive a committee
more fairly chosen I han that thus appointed by the late govern-
ment. The committee, thus composed, met on the 26th of
April, and again on the 3d of May last, and though the late go-
vernment did not leave office until the 15th of November follow-
ing, yet not a single step further was taken beyond a consider-
ation of the matter. He could not understand why this should
have been the case, unless some difficulties, legal or other-
wise, had presented themselves against the grant. Be that
as it might, what course was the crown to pursue ? Surely
not to refer the matter again to the privy council, who had
already been possessed of all that information of which the house
was ignorant. Not even the report of 1831 had been produced.
The proposal of his right hon. friend, as contained in the amend-
ment, would lay before the house all the information submitted
to the privy council in the matter of the London University.
Possessed of this, the house would then be able to decide what
course it ought to pursue. He would not, for the purpose of
evading any temporary difficulty, now give to the house any
assurance as to the future. if the house was prepared to decide
the question to-night, it might pursue its own course; he, how-
ever, should still think the course proposed most reasonable,
while, on the other band, the mere calling for the production of
the memorials and other information would be inure satisfac-
tory, and would not in the least prejudice any future proceed-
ing. (Hear, hear.) He would, however, say on that occasion
he would rather he in a minority, and throw the responsibility
of an unjust and unwise proceeding upon the majority against
him, than acquiesce in it for the
_purpose of escaping from
occasional or temporary defeat. (Hear, hear.) Flu believed
the presentation of the address would not accomplish its object.
He however pledged himself to nothing, though thus much he
would say, that he felt the position of that portion of his ma-
jesty's subjects who did not conform to the church establish-
ment, and who by tests were excluded from the Universities,
was deserving of attention, and that their claim to academic
education was not without oundation. (Cheers.) What might
be the proper mode of relief in this respect he was not prepared
to say, and he would not interrupt the house in its course by
any pledge in this respect. The house might follow in this
instance, without reference to any declaration on his part, but
it was right he should state that he saw no objection to the
principle that there should be made some provision for the ad-
mission of dissenters to academic honours. (Cheers.)
Lord John Russell and Mr. Estcourt then addressed the
house. On a division the numbers were

For the motion 246
Against it
Majority in favour of the motion —llO
Mr. CVLOGHLIN brought in a bill for the appointment o:
convenient places for holding the assizes in Ireland.
Colonel VERNUR was about to submit a motion, but in con.
sequence of loud cries of " Adjourn," resumed his seat.
Mr. BitoTnEazos moved that the house should adjourn.

Colonel VERNER said he would avail himself of the opportu-
nity afforded by that motion to allude to a matter personal to
himself. Having been objected to by the bon. member for
Tipperary as an improper person to be placed on the committee
appointed to inquire into Orange lodges, he felt himself called
upon—conscious as he was in the purity and integrity of his
intentions—to declare that there was not the slightest ground
for casting the imputation upon his character which was im-
plied in the hon. member's objection. Last session he was a
member of the committtee appointed to inquire into a charge
affecting the character of the hon. member for Tipperary, and
he was sure that the hon. member had no reason to complain
of his conduct then, for he heartily concurred in the report,
which acquitted the hon. member of all blame in the transac-
tion referred to. At all events, gentlemen who made objections to
other peoplethemselves ought to come forward with clean hands.
Now, any one who took the trouble to examine the constitu-
tion of the committee must see that it was anything but an
impartial one. (Hear.)- The hon. member then read extracts
from speeches delivered in Ireland by some members of the
committee, in which Orangemen were denounced in the most
unmeasured language.
Mr. Sash. begged to assure the hon. and gallant member,
that when he objected to his being appointed a member of the
committee, nothing was more remote from his intention than to
cast the least imputation on his character. If he had given the
hon. and gallant colonel the slightest pain, he most unequivo-
cally begged his pardon. (Hear, hear.) Setting his politics
aside, the hon. and gallant member was a man of unimpeach-
able character.
The house then adjourned at a quarter past one o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—Farnar.
NEw PAR I. lAMENt HOUSES.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER, after some observations
which were not heard in the gallery, said that he wished to ask
a question of the noble lords opposite on the snbject of a rumour
which had just reached him relative to the rebuilding of the two
houses of parliament. That, it should be recollected, was a
great national undertaking, which should be open to the competi-
tion of all the architects of talent and intelligence in the country ;
but the rumour which he had heard was that one architect alone
had been selected for the purpose, and that his plans were not
only to be adopted by the government but by the committee of
both houses which sat upon the subject. For his part lie could not
conceive on what possible ground such a course could have been
taken, more especially by a committee of their lordships' house,
and therefore it was that he desired to know if the rumour had
any foundation in fact.
The Duke of WELLINGTON.—It is perfectly true that the
government have directed a particular architect to prepare plans
and estimates for the re-building of the two houses of parlia-
ment. These plans and estimates have been laid before the
committees of both houses of parliament; but I do not believe
that the committee of your lordships' house has as yet decided
either on that plan or any, other, or whether or not any other
plan should be called for. As far as I know this is the state of
the matter at the present moment. (Lord Wharncliffe here
communicated something to the noble duke in a whisper.) Yes,
I am right, I find, in saying that no decision has been come to
in respect to this plan, or whether or not it shall be adhered to,
or whether or not the plan of some other architect may not be
adopted.
1 be Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose for the purpose of confirm-
ing the statement of the noble duke. So far from the committee
of their lordships' house having determined to exclude all other
plans they expressly stated that they received this plan for the
purpose of considering it only, and not with a view to prevent
other architects from tendering theirs. (Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGIIAm presented a petition from a congregation of
unitarian dissenters at Hull, praying to be placed on the some
footing with respect to civil liberty as any other class of his ma-
jesty's subjects.