The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-03-21 00:00:00

lliNfi Fii

544 n nvitate4 &W in** whilt dot iniked
Poi aro' their own Airaivo, not to We Wind CO ths titattitea
of bantvoionkle, (TAW niiarg,) The inactivity of property
in Liverpool was attended with disastrous results to our
pommeree ; and, considering how the prosperity of the
shopkeeper was identified with the prosperity of the mer-
chant, he thought all classes were interested in hetterinn.
the present condition of things. (Bear, hear.) Although
he was not a merchant, it was clear to him that 255.
per cent. was more than the merchant could afford in
these days of competition to pay for insurance • and lie
begged them to recollect that railroads had in no ;light de-
gree destroyed the advantages of localities, and that if the
commerce of Liverpool continued to be burthened with such
an exorbitant rate of insurance, it might probably take the
wings of the railroad, and fly away. (Bear.) What was it
that had made land and buildings so valuable in Liverpool?
Intrinsically and abstractedly, land in Castle-street was
'loss :

A meeting of the rate-payers of Liverpoot v/0-,
Friday last in the Sessions-house, Chapel-street, to tgin into
consideration the clauses of a bill introduced into the douse
of Commons by the Commissioners of Paving and Sewering,
for providing an adequate supply of water for the extinguish-
attendance was not very numerous

hild et?

ing of fire

llotztus, Esq., Chai
to the chair.

JOHN
n of the Commissioners, was called

The CHAIRMAN, in opening the proceedings,
that they were all aware of the extensive losses tv
arisen in the town in consequence of the fires that ha
taken place frorn*the want of water to extinguish t
they were nkn .1— --...—.. ...1

made utat, uwille crt trie constant computuns wee.. .
weather.
from the streets not being properly watered in hot worth little more than land in the middle of Chat Ike
eee Pier. To remedy those evils it had been determined to. and the bricks and the timber of which the shops in Castle-
?Fele to parliament for a bill to give certain powers to the street were constructed, were worth no more in one place
Highway Commissioners, which he would call on Mr. Deane than in another. (Hear.) Why, then, that land was worth
to read to the meeting. £2O a square ard, and why did the shops produce such high
Mr. DEANE read several of the clauses, and stated the rents?
It was the commerce of the port that stamped
effect ° f others. The main provisions may be briefly stated value on the property in the town. It was the enterprise of
to eplanto empower the commissioners to carry into effect the the merchant—the foreign produce he imported, and which
the PF?Posed b Mr. Ashlin, with which all interested in filled our warehouses—that gave value to the house, the
subject are,we conceive, familiar. The commissioners shop, and the office—that gave employment to the multi-
are to be enabled to supply any of the inhabitants with water tudes, who react upon the shopkeeper, and furnished both
for private baths or other purposes. They are further to be them and all classes with the means of acquiring an honour-
empowered_ to borrow at interest, on the credit of the rates, able livelihood. (Loud cheers.) And was it, then, the
'aly_ sums not exceeding thirty thousand pounds; authority is paltry consideration of whether we should have a halfpenny
exceed
to levy a rate, with a proviso that it shall not or a penny in the pound, that would induce gentlemen
And
tuil, in any one year, the' sum of one penny in the pound. to reject a bill ha vine for its object the preservation
s the corporation have agreed to contribute a certain both of property and 'life ? (Hear, hear.) He entreated
annual sum towards the expense of maintaining the engines, all who heard him to take a broader view of this 1 p .na or-
reservo.
of thatlias' Bce., it clause is inserted to authorise the treasurer tant -question, and not, by a petty and unworthy oppo-
x500: ody to pay to the commissioners the annual sum of sition, to assist in committing local suicide. (Hear.) He
protested that if the present state of things were permitted
Pal clauses
Alderman Nicol. said they had heard the two princi- long to exist, and fire after fire took place, it must end in the
mode
ldelaufses of the bill before the meeting read, viz., as to the destruction of the character of this port; and, although the
extio 0. supplying the town with water for the streets and charges from this bill would fall as heavily on him as on any
fo gutshing fires, and the way in which it was to be paid person in the town, he should neither be doing his duty to
r. It was not necessary' for him to detain them many the constituency who had sent him into the council to protect
Minutes in order to show them that something in the shape the interests of the town, nor should he satisfy his own
of thatthe bill was absolutely necessary in Liverpool. During conscience, if he did not lift up his voice and protest against
en-
fires lastin eight months they had seen almost weekly extensive such a state of things as now existed being any longer
). the town, principally caused from the want of water dured. (Applause.) They had a most efficient fire-police—
Part to them in their origin. He had taken an active well disciplined, well arranged, and prompt in action. Mr.
but also only in the mode of altering and building warehouses, Whitty, their leader, was deserving of all praise ; but what
in the ,° in the considerations which had lately taken place could he or they do when at every fire they were left without
with
water, In
respecting abetter mode of supplying the town water? (Cheers.) Suppose the army of the Duke of Welling-
and a In done: so, many parties had been consulted, ton in the Peninsula had been brought face to face with that
aineong
eert the rest the Water Companies, with a view of as- of Marshal Soult, and they had found when they got into
with till:1! ;whether any arrangement could be entered into action that although they were well commanded, and had
necessary,
of
extine ••-.1.(:"" supplying a sufficient quantity of water for the their muskets in order, they had no ammunition in their
fires. It was, however, found absolutely cartouch boxes! (Loud laughter.) Where would they have
laid do. rY, to accomplish this, that pipes or mains should be been ? And yet such was the situation of the fire-police at
houses'''. n altogether distinct from those which supplied the the late tire at Messrs. Fawcetts. When he (Mr. Holmes)
allededin the town. Many of the casualities to which he had arrived on the spot, he would have guaranteed all the damage
from ti took place in the night, and it generally happened, for a few hundred pounds, if he had had a copious supply of
good the quantity of water supplied to houses in the town, a water. (Hear, hear.) And yet the fire-police were obliged
tfwYii Portion of which was from the mains, that they wereenapty to stand by for hours and see building after building con-
o come morning. In consequence of this it was found necessary sumed without any means of extinguishing it. (Hear.) And
ensnsider how separate pipes could be laid down so as to here he was reminded that it was not always warehouses that
tires, a sufficient supply at all times for the putting out of first took tire. The. great fire in Formby-street did not
s, and watering the streets of the town. At present a originate in a warehouse, but in a bone-boiling house. (Hear.)
considerable sum was paid to the water companies for water The late fire originated in an iron foundry ; and he appealed
anrthe latter purpose, but enough could not be furnished, to Mr. Rushton, who was present with the mayor, whether
ThistheY were now obliged to have recourse to other sources. the fire did not spread from the foundry across the street,
sum. together with what would be contributed by the and set fire to the warehouses, when there was not a drop of
Corporationsill it, would go far towards paying the expenses, but water to be got to impede its progress. And had we not hadd
tho was absolutely necessary to provide for the cost, al- steam mills, and buildings of all descriptions, consume
ugli it might not be required. Mr. Nicol concluded where the same want of water was as severely felt? (Hear.)
with re • e
other moving the first resolution, for which, as well as the A scheme had been mentioned by Mr. Smith, of stopping
see the advertisement. the progress of fires by hanging up iron screens against the
The resolution was seconded by Mr. JAMES AcRERs• doors and windows of opposite buildings. Who in the world
'I FORD asked what was tire estimated cost, and the ex- world venture in the face of such an intolerable heat as that
tent which they intended to carry the main pipes ? which generally existed, to hang up such screens, even if they
Piping. BIRKETT replied that it was thought £14,000 would were on the spot, and if there was machinery to get them
wii nine miles of piping, but by doubling that length of up ? It was like attempting to resist the attack of a ferocious
?, it ,
40,.,,,, was found the expense would reach nearly £30,000. tiger by unfurling a parasol for self-defence. (Laughter.)
proposed to
the inhabitants sanction the plan, it was Mr. Ford had drawn a comparison between the returns
,th,_ _ to raise the sum of £50,000, instead of £30,000, at I yielded from warehouses and cottages to the disparagement
fenny in
time providing that the rate should not exceed one i of the former • but he begged to tell that gentleman, that he
Yin the pound. The commissioners, in this matter, (Mr. Hohne) 'had had some little experience in both sorts of
proposed t
eirre ogoon by degrees, as they had done with the , property, and as far as that experience went, deducting the
seine; of the town. loss of rents by empty warehouses, he thought warehouses
Forte said there could only be one opinion as to the did not yield on the average quite as large a rate of interest
desirableness of a better supply of water in the town, but as cottagesdid. (Hear.) Mr. Ford had spoken, too, of the
therewhich
hmight be more than one opinion as to the mode in projected mains not being carried through every street, as
water that supply was to be obtained. There were several being unfair, and of the difficulty of carrying them through
Seta 'companies in the town, and when they obtained their streets with 6-yard butts, where there were already two gas
r , t"eY Were allowed to make an additional charge in their and two water pipes. To the former argument he replied,
'es, in consequence of their undertaking to supply water that there were many streets where the companies had now
to general fires no mains at all; and to the latter, that tire pipes were not
Air. HARBORD said that only applied to one of them. laid alongside each other in many streets, but, in some cases.
Nlr- FORD said, if that was the case, and there was a over each other ; and even if they were not, there was still
clauseifor ti inserted in their bill compelling them to supply water room in any street for the contemplated main. (Hear hear.)
them rat purpose, why did not the commissioners call upon He had stated before this his conviction that the supply of
the to say wiry they did not afford an abundant supply for water to this town ought never to have been left in the hands
with of extinguishing fires, at all events in accordance of private companies—(loud cries of " Hear, hear"),-but.
ha or . . o
leted te spirit, if not the letter of the law ? They had neg- that it ought to have been provided by the constituted au-
a new odo so, and now appeared before the rate-payers with - thorities, and then the mains would have been kept con-
s scheme which would cost the town an enormous out- stantly filled ; but as the companies, wisely for their own
lie (Mr. Ford) did not approve of that scheme, and advantage, turned off the water when persons were supplied
thoughtfor it it would be much better if the bill was postponed; for domestic purposes, Mr. Ford's proposition for having
find it
was passed in its present state, they would pipes carried to the top of every warehouse would be useless,
theythemselves surrounded with difficulties from which because it would be generally connected with an empty
Passing that
not be able easily to extricate themselves. By main ; and would be about as serviceable as an empty pipe
rf:lng that bill they entirely exonerated the water corn- of another description would be to a smoking friend whom
Panics from what he considered they were bound to do, he saw below him, if that friend had no tobacco to put in it.
Zeirhaebpad no notion of doing that unless there was a eon- (Loud laughter.) Mr. Ford had contrasted the warehouses
rase ater
'the .‘„ e reduction in the enormous rates now charged by of Liverpool with the factories of Manchester ; but he (Mr.
companies. The plan now proposed was to Holme) knew something of the factories of Manchester as
Waterwater from the river to be preserved in tanks. That well as Mr. Ford did. He therefore begged to inform that
was salt water, which would act very rapidly in core gentleman, that most of the Manchester factories possessed
ending the iron pipes through which it passed, and the lifting wells of water wherewith to work their steam-engines ; and
weil
as keeping
of it would be a most expensive process, as to many of those engines were attached powerful forcing
keeping
Thachiner • the number of persons necessary to work the pumps, kept ready for seasons of emergency ; and therefore
fee, 1, to examine the pipes, and to keep them in per- the cOntrast between them and Liverpool warehouses, without
ofhLeorder, and also to see that every key would Perform its such advantages, and used merely for storing goods, fell to the
wit,e• He was sorry they had not come before the meeting ground. (Applause.) He now turned to Mr. John Smith,
,__eruea proper and exact estimate of the cost, instead of a who, with his usual ability arid good humour, had appeared in
talcabstract measure. They ought to have had ready a the character of an antagonist to this bill ; and he asked that
,72
eurlation of the cost likely to be thrown upon the rate- gentleman, when he expressed hostilities to the Water COM-
-It,';Y 's• What did they mean to do ? Did they mean merely panies, whether carrying out the present proposition was not
to confine the the laying down of pipes to a few main streets, or the first step to the destruction oitheir monopoly ? (Hear.)
„e
did of the warehouses? (No. no.) If Mr. Smith had spoken of spontaneous combustion in ware-
: nvnitd not, instead of requiring nine miles of piping, they houses. He (Mr. H.) thought that that combustion had
"ld find three times nine would he inadequate. Would been the spontaneous one which arose from smoking tobacco
they °Pen up the principal seats of the town to lay down in cotton rooms, and which had caused so many fires.—
~--sing
•'
The C (Hear.) He also asked why the committee had not sought
m. TIAIRMAN.—Yes, we would. for new designs and new modes of bettering the present
etZ:', FORD,--Nothing was so great a nuisance as the con- state of things. He could assure Mr. Smith that the corn-
ier, t'aYing and re-laying of pipes in the principal streets of mittee had had before them plans without number, some of
lav a°;1:10. Would it not, therefore, be the wisest course to them good ; and he had had schemes propounded to him pri-
scitC"e the bill before them for the present, and consult vately which convinced him that some of the inventors were
, .the water companies, to ascertain whether the Y could hardly in their right mind.—(Laughter.) Not that he could
tliliPPlY them with a sufficiency to extinguish fires? Could be supposed to be insensible to the value of mechanical sci-
wietri not allow them for that purpose, if they could not do it ence, for he desired to pay to mechanical science the just
w, ~ their present funds, a small rate on warehouse property, tribute it deserved ; and he would answer for the committee,
":\l;rh at present paid them no rate at all? of which he was a member, that they would give every con-
Thai' ~BIRKETT said that mode would be much less expensive sideration to any suggestion which men of science would
, toe present plan.
, Mr bring before them. What they now asked for, to enable them
,orre ' on
(in continuation) complained of the want of in- to accede to the standing orders of the House of Commons,
Plans to
under which the meeting laboured respecting the was merely that the Parishioners would sanction the general
sure to be carried into effect by the bill, and said the mem- principles of the measure, and thus no time would be lost-
tee orignated with the Corporation of Liverpool, who had Surely the commissioners 'of sewers might be trusted to
iduivildniublic funds at their disposal. and who could without in. forward this essential measure ; and if they betrayed their
lookieal Cost, ve given the public thatinforrnation they were trust, the remedy was in the hands of those who had to re-
To_ eg for. Ile found a Fire bill had originated with the -elect them. And in reference to the other part of the mea-
caw: Council, but after its introduction into the House of saute, which fell into the hands of the council, the same
reasemeas it had been found necessary, perhaps for more remedy was at hand. If their representatives failed in doing
13 -""an one to divide it into two, and hand one to tire their duty, let them be rejected. (Hear.) Let this measure
tilerrd it 1, o
ea • i enwick-street. There was a clause in that bill be faithfully and honestly carried out, and be was convinced
~,, slug the rate from Id. to id. that it would be an advantage to the whole community.
-iiqrr• BiRKETT.—No, no. There could be no legislation for a particular class in such a
Town' . said he had obtained a copy of the bill from the case as this.richest and the poorest were alike in-
t,: , - all, a clause of which he read for the benefit .of Mr. terested ; and he bad no doubt the day would arrive when
`nricett.
Mr. B all would cheerfully acknowledge it, and every man present
To IttKETT said that bill had been introduced by the would cordial') approve of the perseverance of those who
Tuwi't cil2erk, but had not yet received the sanction of the now sought powers to carry this bill. (Loud cheering.)
also i._ "Axil- The clauses, however, in it, which were Mr. RUSHTON fully corroborated all Mr. Holmes had
the ici,itiithe bill before the meeting, had been struck out of said respecting the consequences of the want of water at
Mr. F tires.
Out? ORD.—Why was not the money clause also struck Mr. J. S. WALKER strongly urged the necessity for suf-
Mr.
Pooleficient supplies of water being obtained to protect the town,
IllakeTT said it had been found necessary to introduce in proof of which he mentioned that that very day the fire
Pool to the blouse of Commons giving the Mayor of Liver- in Lydia Ann-street had again broken out, and a fire had
burgrwer, in case such a fire should occur as that of Hain- occurred in Duke-street for which no water could for a length
pre__ nto order the blowing down of adjoining property, to of time be procured.
-roz.t Its spreading. That bill had been drawn up-by the Mr. J. SMITH said, before it was passed, he wished to
had l elerk but it had never been before the Council, nor observe that lie could not agree to the bill unless an assurance
they as yet expressed any opinion on it. was given that his suggestion as to obtaining the very best
Air. 1, '
in both bills, still complained that the rating clause was left plans should be adopted.
treat ills, and then suggested that it would be better to Mr. HoemEs said they had seen plan after plan proposed
withideraei the water companies, as their reservoirs were con- to them, but many of the projectors were more fit for bedlam
swig Y, higher than any warehouse in Liverpool, and sub- than rational society.
biati...l the propriety of their supplying the houses from After a few words from Mr. N. b. BOLD, in vindication
aiwa‘e:is
.instead of main pipes, so that the latter might be of the insurance companies, the resolution was passed.
the 5.... kept full in case of fire. He also suggested that in Mr. EARLE proposed the next resolution, which was se-
theLitiodbe
tenee:iirehouses pipes should be placed, with plugs iir each conded by Mr. J. Fletcher, which after a few words from
supplied with water from cisterns at the top of Mr. Birkett and Mr. Ford, the latter stating that he reser-
Alanch in g, as in several factories in the neighbourhood of ved himself to oppose pro bill in the House of Commons,
in_
.10ester, and concluded hy recommending that the meet- . Mr. D. HODGSON pposed the third resolution, which
e:yst should adjourn for time, until it was ascertained whether was seconded by Mr. A. Henderson, and put from the chair,
and to arrangement _could be effected with the water companies, after a promise had been obtained by Mr. Smith from the
he~.
;11,i. diode
~. of obtaining a sufficiency of water. Thanks having been voted to the chairman, the meeting
sett'. LIARno
peace RD said Mr. Ford had not given them the op- seperated.
of affording theu, that information which he ap-
hPe_erseed so much in need of, and again he attacked the vrart-
purt!iettyo.rs, as though they were perfect beggars upon ;
ti‘!"e-...ticomPrrno
111;1 P_o_ rtn.—l never mentioned them. 4
sh;st.IiARBORD replied that Mr. Ford had made various
trlel
were
about taxing them, but he (Mr. H.) thought if
cootrib re disposed to be selfish they could say already they '
at_
lee
_uted towards many things of no use to them, and in-
-I,;.!e,idt_the lamps, the watering and flagging of the streets,
which the
_heo warehouse proprietors could do without.
nailer F an asked permission to say a few words in expla.-
.r., and was proceeding when he was stopped by
ar-
gument Alderman EARLE, who said he was answering the
,ar,, of Mr. Harboard instead of explaining, and he was
;1%. ~ed by Mr. Earle with having attacked the owners of
%,erh.o_nses on account of the large per centage they paid.
r,v FORD denied having done so.
air. S. Holzer, said he certainly had, for he had taken the
exoression do • wit
Arr. ,j. SMITH, one of the proprietors of the Mercury,
. addressed the meeting at some length, and con-
ehilusedretej is s
observations by proposing that a clause should be
in the bill authorising the award of prizes for the
most practical suggestions on the subject.
DEANS
words from Mr. Birkett and Mr, Ford,
• prONViritl. ed read the sth clause of the bill, in which it is
that the water may be taken from the docks, " or
fruiti an other source from which water can be convenientl
obtaieeti
xxSoAnirra
e:distue. y
discussion ensued on this point, after which Mr.
spoke at some length against the bill. He argued
tit lemrya
hot
eu
that as the warehouse proprietors received great per centage,
ght to pay also great premiums, and that as a consi-
gnerortion of the goods in the warehouses belonged to forei
warelious:! and were there on commission, therefore the
irea,a_
of
etewners ought to pay the greater portion of the ex-
Nivi.s. SAMUEL
Ilie present measure.—The clause was carried.
PropeseA IuEL HOLME said that he had a resolution to
listener tlat had attended there rather in the character of a
wa_
one
ofian a speaker. The question before the meeting
prossperit great local importance, involving the commercial
Y of the port ; and he thought that those who
Iseidoekdedvat it in a narrow and isolated manner, and took a one-
questioinewa of the subject, could hardly be said to treat the
separate the its importance deserved. It was impossible to
the einterests of all classes of society : the interest of
keeper,merchant was the interest of the tradesman, the shop-
lab rthewho
mechanic ; and the interest, too, of the humblest
(e_r., •ho earned his livelihood on the quays of our docks.
al ,ta ) We cannot legislate for classes. (Hear.) We are
classl" It Were One vast familywhat is injurious to one
tnerce
,biy the singular and unalterable ramification's of corn_
eated ..,,s felt to he injurious to all. Ile, therefore, depre-
see ~..`i'l.et Petty and unworthy feeling which he was sorry to
tummy
on this occasion, because he hail hoped to find
them look " a question such as that under discussion. Let
flagratior at the effects produced by the late calamitous con-
reckoned's• (Hear.) The losses sustained had not to be
during 11
millio-ns-"ebY hundreds and thousands of pounds; but,
(Hear.
Lhyerth
sufferere d
last few years, that loss had to be computed by
) Was it the merchant alone who was
No. Were not our warehouses surrounded
most wellings of the poor? Had they not witnessed the
distressingelement which, scenes during the fearful ravages of that
a servant, which'
, when kept under proper control, was so useful
t, when bursting forth in all its fierceness, was
such a but,
se ‘Yrannical master? (Loud cheers.) He had often
en the poorerfurniture—perhaps classes removing their
their "—amidst scenes of distress which were most heart-

FIRE LAST NIGHT.—Last night an alarm was raised that
a fire had broken out in Orrell-street, Vauxhall-road. The
engines were quickly on the spot, hut no material damage
had occurred, the fire having been quickly extinguished.

The Secretary of State for the Home Department has
issued a positive order that M`Naughten be kept in strict
seclusion.
Two men (Rebecca's daughters) were tried at the Pem-
brokeshire assizes, last week, for breaking the dwelling-
house and toll-house of William Rees. The prisoners were
found not guilty.
REBECCA AND HER DAUGHTERS IN KIDWELLY.—Last
night week, some of the disciples of Becca assembled at
Kidwelly Gate, leading to Garreg Mountain, and completely
demolished the toll-house, the gate and posts of which had
been, a month or six weeks previous, destroyed by a body
of that reckless gang.

COMMISSARIAT.—A return ordered by the House of
Commons shows the total estimated cost of the Commissa-
riat department for 1843-4 to be £191,045 15s. 4d. ; that
for 1842-3 was £200,939 10s. Decrease for 1843.4, £9,893
15s. 2d. Total coat of officers and clerks in foreign garrisons
and possessions for the year ending March 31, 1844, is esti-
mated at £46,893 15s. Estimate for extra clerks, store-
keepers, &c., at the several stations abroad, for the same
period, £64,814 19s. Bd. Pay and contingencies of the
Commissariat branch of the Treasury, £4,045 3s. 2d.
Amount required for hind and inland water transport, &c.,
£73,439. Half-pay, superannuations, pensions to widows,
&c., £47,949 19s.

TRADE WITH CHINA : THE FIVE PORTS.—Mr. Gutzlaff,
in a letter dated Chusan, October 28, and addressed to Mr.
Mathieson, of Glasgow, gives the following information re-
specting our trade with China :—" There can be no doubt
that the commerce to this part of the world will soon be con-
siderable, if our merchants will not overstock the markets by
overtradiug on too sanguine expectations. Of the new ports
you will already have heard. Shanghae, the only emporium
for central China, and enabled by inland communication by
water.
to transport goods with ease, oilers the largest pros-
pect for imports of cotton and woollen manufactures. It
will furnish, in return, raw silk of the best description, some
green teas, and also a few silk and cotton manufactures that
are still in demand in England, or are carried in English and
American bottoms to South America. However, the re-
sources of this emporium remain still to be developed, and,
judging from the favourable situation, and the present exten-
sive maritime native trade it now enjoys, it will be our largest
port for importations. Ningpo has considerable capital at
command—will furnish us with
green teas, scud sous sad
silk—take off our hands a good deal of cotton goods and
woollens, and also receive in
moderate quantities Straits pro-
duce, for which Shanghae is, however, the principal mart.
Futchoo, the metropolis of Fokeen, furnishes our black teas,
j and will, therefore, have the largest proportion of our trade,
and take in return principally raw cotton,. and a few manu-
factures, for home consumption. To this place I have
self been appointed, and shall proceed to shat town wi.thin a
few days, if I have to remain during the winter here in the
magistracy. Amoy will be a regular depot for everything.
It will furnish us with the cheaper kinds of black teas that
grow on the coast;
hemp, camphor, and sugar candy, from
Formosa, and a great quantity of sundries, such as umbrellas,
alum, and coarse China ware, for the Indian market, and
will take almost everything in exchange, for the merchants
of that city are the carriers of China, but principally raw
cotton."