The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-06-02 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS-TUESDAY

Lord P.II.MERSTOI4tOOIt occasion to regret that the post-
ponement of a motion of Mr. Cochrane's relative to our
financial intercourse with Greece prevented him from setting
Sir R. Peel right in an assertion he had made on a former
evening to the effect that the interest on the Greek loan had
been guaranteed by the late government. This was an error,
for that loan was guaranteed by the government of 1830, of
which Sir R. Peel was a leading member.

THE IRELAND ARMS BILL
Mr. C. BULLER said that the effect of the bill would be to
deprive the virtuous of arms, while it would have no effectlin
preventing those disposed to commit outrage from procuring
the means of doing so. He did not regard the bill itself as a
matter of importance. being only a continuation of an old
law which both parties in that house had supported, but in
one point of view it was important. It might have been
easily passed by the late government without any particular
jealousy, because the late Government ruled by the feelings
of the majority, while the present government ruled accord-
ing to the feelings of the minority. The repeal of the union
ought to be deprecated by every one, and more particularly
by the people of Ireland. How then was it that the people
of Ireland wished to repeal that union? How was it that
the poor and weak wished to separate themselves from the
strong and wealthy ? How was it that for the last two cen-
turies the misgovernment of Ireland had been the scandal of
Christendom ? How was it that while all Europe was ad-
vancing, the condition of the people of Ireland had been
getting worse ? The causes of the misery of Ireland were
chiefly the conduct of the landlords, and the existence of the
Established Church upon the endowments of their ancestors
intended for the instruction of the people, but which were
expended in disgraceful absenteeism or more deplorable re-
sidence. Ireland had been quiet under the late administra-
tion, because it soaght to conciliate the people ; but the pre-
sent Government on its accession had alleged itself to the
Orange party in that country, and had elevated judges to the
bench in whom the people had no confidence, and thus lost
for itself public confidence by the proceeding. In one year
and a half the right hon. baronet had alienated from England
the hearts of the people of Ireland, and even at the present
moment, whatever good for Ireland he had in store, he kept
it carefully concealed, and only presented it with an arms
bill.
Mr. SHAW looked upon Ireland to be in a most unsatis-
factory and alarming condition, the lower classes being in a
state of unnatural excitement, while those above them were
despondent and dejected. He referred to the temperance
movement, and spoke highly of the motives of Father
Mathew, and said that in his own jurisdiction he found that
within the last two years crime had decreased one-third. It
appeared, however, that everything which in other countries
would be esteemed a blessing beeame in Ireland an addi-
tional curse, and thus the temperance movement with its
badges and medals was made use of by designing people to
render more perfect a system of organisation for other pur-
poses. He did not apprehend any danger of an outbreak i❑
Ireland, for Mr. O'Connell, as he himself declared, " knew
a trick worth two of that." His whole policy was to keep
the people in order while keeping them also in a constant
agitation by causing them to meet in myriads. The real
danger to be apprehended was not the repeal of the union,
but the organisation of the entire country under the plea of
repeal. The danger was in fact the combination of the Ca-
tholic clergy with the mass of the people of Ireland for the
purpose of subverting the rights of property in Ireland.
While he said this he felt bound in justice to say that the
most alarmed of all classes at the present state of things, and
the most anxious for its termination, were the respectable
Roman Catholics. He supported the second reading of the
bill.
Mr. V. STUART supported the bill, which he hoped would
be amended in committee.
Sir 11. W. BARRON' moved the adjournment of the debate.
which, after some discussion, was agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDNESDAY.
Mr. WYSE, who resumed the debate on the Irish Arms
Bill, contended that the wrongs of Ireland might be redress-
ed and the people reclaimed by improving the relations be-
tween landlords and tenants ; by encouraging public works,
and thus giving employment to the people ; and by promoting
everything which might conduce to the happiness and pros-
perity of the country. It was a mistake to suppose that the
organisation for repeal was a thing of yesterday ; for, in point
of fact, it originated in the struggle for Catholic emancipa-
tion. He imputed no blame to the Government for not
promoting their political opponents, for no government
would go upon any such system as that of neglecting its
friends, for the advantage of its enemies, but he did blame
the Government for neglecting opportunities of advancing
from the ranks of their friends individuals who would have
proved acceptable to the people of Ireland.
Lord JOCELYN argued that the bill was necessary in order
to preserve social security in Ireland, and that as long as the
country continued to be excited by agitators so long would it
be necessary to adopt stringent measures to preserve the
peace. The much boasted tranquility of Ireland during the
late administration was to be entirely attributed to the
operation of the Lichfield House compact.
Mr. J. O'BRIEN said it was a reproach to Government
and to the Parliament that Ireland after nearly half a cen-
tury of legislative union should be still treated more as a
subjugated province than as an integral part of the empire.
They had had a sufficient trial of the inefficacy of a coercive
policy, and it would therefore be well to reverse the policy,
and trust to the affections of the Irish people. They should
not be led away by the idea that this formidable array of the
Irish people was to be entirely attributed to the ambition of
a few individuals, for they had the experience of history to
teach them that no intelligent people could be similarly
excited unless by the stimulus of the conviction of actual
wrong. The people of Ireland felt that the spirit of class
legislation still existed, and that the Roman Catholics were
still a proscribed race. The hon. member enumerated many
of the grievances complained of by the people of Ireland, and
concluded by expressing his determination to oppose the bill

before the house at every stage.
Colonel VERNER contrasted the conduct of orangemen
with that of the repealers. The former instantly dissolved
their associations on the first declaration of the goverment

against them, while the Repeal Association announced its
determination to persevere in opposition to the government.
The people of Ireland had a thirst for arms, which should be
controlled by such a bill as the one on the table.
The O'CoNon DON could not support an arms bill for
Ireland, the obnoxious provisions of which would not be
tolerated in England. The maintenance of order in Ireland
was to be chiefly attributed to the Roman Catholic priests,
whose loyalty was undoubted, though they had joined in the
repeal agitation in utter despair of obtaining by any other
means a remedy for the wrongs of their country. After such
an expression of his opinions he thought the Lord Chancellor
of Ireland would be as fully justified in dismissing him from
the commission of the peace as he thought himself in remov-
ing Lord Ffrench or any other of those magistrates who had
been deprived of the commission.
Mr. HAWES advocated the necessity of adopting a system

. ,
of impartiality in the administration of the law in Ireland,
and of conciliating the affections of the people by elevating
to office those whose names would inspire confidence in the
good spirit and intentions of the executive. lie protested
against the dismissal of magistrates for exercising the consti-
tutional right of attending public meetings to obtain the re-
peal of an act of parliament. Deeming the provisions of the
bill an indication of the altered spirit of the English govern-
ment towards Ireland, he would join in opposing it to the
utmost.

Sir J. GRAHAM admitted that nothing less than very grave •
reasons could have induced him to interfere with the con-
stitutional right to carry arms, but the present state of Ire- '
land was a sufficient justification for the bill before the house.
The Arms Bill was first imposed on Ireland by its domestic
parliament, and had been continued almost uninterruptedly
for a period of half a century. It was a gross misrepresenta-
tion to say that the bill went the length of disarming the peo-
ple of Ireland, for it only went the length of enabling the
officers of justice to trace the criminal if the crime had
been committed by such registered arms. lie con-
tended that the appointments made by the present go-
vernment in Ireland were, as far as possible, impartial;
and they
i had actually incurred much odium by their ex-
ertions n favour of the education of the Irish people.
It was true that there might be unreasonable prejudices
against some of the judicial appointments, but surely the
long standing of Chief Justice Pennefather, and of Judges
Lefroy,
.Blackburn, and Jackson, came in aid of their un-
doubted qualifications for the positions to which they had
been raised. The government was resolved to carry out the
administration of the affairs for the benefit of the people of
Ireland, and not of a party, of which the displeasure of that
party was a sufficient proof. Ile defended the established
church of Ireland and its clergy from the aspersions cast upon
it and them by Mr. C. Buller; and contended that the pea-
santry of Ireland had reason to be thankful that they had
such friends as the clergy to supply the place of an absentee
nobility and gentry. With respect to a bill like the one on
the table, it was observed that Sir Samuel Romilly had said
that it would be madness to pass such a measure ; but he
would say, looking at the present state of Ireland, that it
would be cowardice and treachery to the interests of Ireland
not to pass it.
The Earl of LisTowee said that if the bill had been merely
a continuation of the former act he should not oppose it, hut
it had clauses which rendered it peculiarly offensive to the
people of Ireland, and as it was professed to he the result of
the agitation for the repeal of the union he was the more
firmly opposed to it on that account, though not an advocate
for that measure. Still, seven eighths of the Irish public
were now in favour of repeal, and they should rather seek to
further irritate them by measures of coercion. The root of
all the evils of Ireland was, that the Established Church in
that country was the church of the minority and not of the
majority, and those evils would, in his opinion, be aggra-
vated by this bill, which he would therefore decidedly op-
pose.
Mr. Rosined( said, that in respect to this bill the present
Government was treading in the steps of preceding Govern-
ments for centuries back ; and it was a remarkable fact, that
when the bill was that night under discussion there was not
one member of the late administration present. When he
first saw the present bill he was indignant at several of its
provisions, and made enquiry as to the nature of the provi-
sions of the previous acts, when he found that the original
fact was not a " Saxon insult," but the emanation of an Irish
parliament ; and the Irish members during the late adminis-
tration had, by supporting the re-enactment of the Arms
Bill, given to him a warning never to trust an Irish member
when the interests of Ireland were eat stake. Ireland was a
conquered country—the reformation had not been successful
there, and some of the greatest friends of liberty in England
had been the greatest tyrants in Ireland. He was opposed to
the present bill, because it was directed against all the princi-
ples of good government. The greatest evil of Ireland was
the rampant church establishment of the minority of the peo-
ple, whose revenues should be otherwise appropriated. The
hon. member subsequently used the term " robbery," as ap-
plied to the exactions made on the people for the support of
the church, and the expression having met with some dis-
approbation, he said he used it in no offensive sense,
for he Proposed robbing himself—robbery. of the Irish
Church 'Establishment, the church of the minority ; and he
wished to use terms not to be misunderstood—to use them
above board : for he would apply the revenues of the Church
to the maintenance of the religion of the majority, or else
apportion them amongst all sects indifferently. The hon.
and learned gentleman then asked what the Government
proposed to do. Was the English army to be enlisted
against the whole people of Ireland ? Were they to be called
upon to pass coercion bills ; or were they to be told that it
was high treason to discuss the repeal of an act of Par-
liament? The right hon. baronet at the head of the Go-
vernment was placed in a most difficult position. His
Government was afraid of doing justice to Ireland, because
of the wish to preserve the support of the dominant minority
in that country. He believed the right hon. baronet would
be glad to get rid of that support, which was in reality
destroying him. Let him then follow out the dictates of his
own enlightened spirit. knowing what was right—feeling
what was just—let bin do justice to Ireland, and he need
not fear for England.
Sir R. PERL said, he should, at a more fitting period, be
prepared to prove that. he had redeemed his pledge of con-
ducting the affairs ot Ireland ill a spirit of conciliation and
impartiality. The chief charge against them was the ap-
pointment of Mr. Sergeant Jackson and Mr. Lefroy to the
judicial bench ; but in the same breath ill which the charge
was made, it was admitted that their judicial conduct was
free from all imputation. He was surprised that honourable
gentlemen on the opposition benches did not display some
greater degree of liberality than thus to attack the Gorern-

ebe Etherpoot Alan Darb.

to bu concealed, that when the decisive hour has ar-
rived—when blood has to be shed and outrage to stalk
openly abroad, it will he by these peaceful and pious
ministers of Christ (.9 that the frenzied masses will be
led on to the consummation of their meditated atro-
cities l_ _

There must indisputably be something peculiar in
the system of education, and religious and political

training of the ministers of a church who are to be
found thus engaged, to a man, in the pursuit of ob-
jects only attainable by violence, and which must he
attended with the temporal ruin of the people amongst
whom their ministry is placed. Amongst the priest-
hood of other churches and sects political differences
are to be. found existing. Rome alone is united ! Her
clergy, disaffected towards the British connexion, are
united in their disaffection. They advance towards
their object by the same path ; and openly proclaim
that tiaey will seek it even through blood and civil war.
They are at this moment only nominally subjects of the
Brit;,sh Crown ; and look forward, and march forward,
to t'ne establishment of another supremacy in Ireland—
to the establishment, in fact, of the tiara of Rome as
the. supreme power in that land, and to the destruction
of, every thing within its shores recognising British
authority, or bearing the hated SAXON name !
Such is the position of the clergy of the Romish
Church in Ireland. Why is it thus ? How comes it
to be thus ? Surely the time has at length arrived
when these questions should be imperatively put by
the united people of Great Britain. We provide from
year to year the funds for which these men are trained
to the sacred offiee. We endow MAyNooTti—the
hotbed from which this vast mass of disaffection and
disloyalty springs up—with the money of the Protes-
tant people of Great Britain. Wu teach the priest-
hood of Ireland—as a nation we teach them—this reli-
gion, and confer upon them the qualifications for this
ministry, which from the first moment of their entry
upon its sacred offices impels them into the pursuit of
objects dangerous to the security and entireness of the
British Empire ; and it is surely but just and wise that
the British Parliament should promptly and deter-
minedly demand a knowledge of the peculiar teaching
of an institution, of which such are the teeming fruits.
What we ask, and we have a right to ask, are the doc-
trines inculcated, at the expense of the Biitish public,
in the College of Maynooth ?
It is too late, now, to tell us of the uncharitableness
of such a demand. It is too late to whimper of " con-
ciliation" and " expediency." These have been tried—
and disastrous has been the result of the experiment !
It is to be found in the hundreds of thousands of
banded traitors in Ireland, clamouring day by day for
the destruction of British property and life in that un-
happy land ! It is to be found in the fact that we
know not the day or the hour in which the blood of
thousands of loyal and right-hearted subjects in Ireland
may not stain the feet of the wolf of Rome! It is to
be found in tumultuous gatherings of misguided men
longing for the time when they may he suffered to
howl over the defaced altars of our Protestant Church ;
to sweep away from the land every vestige of the
power and the civilisation of England, and to rush into
the darkness of a spiritual despotism ;—to place their
necks and their consciences beneath the feet of a
Church which, amid the light and the truth of the
nineteenth century, is still insatiatable in her thirst of
power, and ruthless in her cravings for blood, as in the
darkness of past ages !

It is too late, we repeat, to tell us of concession
and conciliation—to tell us of peace when there is no
peace. The master evil of Ireland is in the faith
which is taught in the seminary of Allaynooth ; and, in
the name of the Protestant people of Great Britain, we
demand to know, now, WHAT IS THAT FAITH ?

The gentlemen of the Anti-Corn-Law League ar

just now striving hard to throw dust in the eyes of the
merchants and citizens of London, and enlist their
sympathie or their pockets, in behalf of their selfish
agitation. if we may judge, however, by the names
of those wt,o are said to attend their various city meet-
ings, the tempt has been hitherto rewarded with but
a very slig lit amount of success. Nor is this wonder-
ful, when we glance at the miserable trash which Mr.

ichard Cobden and his fellow spouters have thus far

dished up for their acceptance. Such raving as the
following, for example, which was uttered by this gen-
tleman in the presence of an assembly at the Hall of
Commerce, in the city, is surely much better calcu-
lated for Saint Giles's or Bedlam, than for the hear-
ing of the sober and reflecting merchants of the metro-
polis of Great Britain.
After describing to his audience the state of our re-
lations with Brazil, he proceeded in this strain :
" Why, you do not understand these things, or you
would be no more quiet than I am under them. There
is no man of spirit that understands them that could
be quiet (.9 It is an ignomy—it is a disgrace to such
a state of things. Why, there might be some merit—
some consolation at all events—to be under the thrall
of such men as Cwsar, a Napoleon, or a Cromwell ; but
to be the toor paltry slaves of the mongrel aristocracy
of the sugar hogshead—to be the creatures of such sor-
did oligarchy, is to suffer a deeper degradation than ever
was inflicted upon a people, by a Ilahomet Ali, or any
barbarian conqueror, or usurper, that I ever read of."
Is it to be wondered at that men who can deliberately
utter in public such rubbish as this, are shrunk from
with disgust by the wealthy merchants and trades of

London ? Is it tt, tie wondered at that their city audi-
ences are the tailor e, to,, barbers, avid other respectable
persons, who happen to he engaged in celebrating the
festival of their favorite saint—" Saint Monday ;"

We are quite content to leave our contemporary, the
Manchester Guardian, in possession of his fancied tri-
umph. He, of course, is perfectly aware of his own
position, and we are content with our own. We have
offered to grapple with the question, which he was so
confident that we would shrink from, provided he
would state it distinctly. He has refused so to do ;
and we are confident that those who know the Guardian
will agree with the prudence of our determination to
enter upon no discussion with him upon a question
which our opponent leaves so loosely stated that he can
hack out of it at pleasure. The Guardian is rather an
adept at this kind of practice.

FACTORY EDUCATION BILL