The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-05-07 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

evil be removed by the introduction of the system of poor-lawn?
He had given the subject due consideration, and though he
was not prepared to say at once that it was his decided opinion
that poor-laws ought not to he introduced into Ireland, yet. he .
certainly entertained great doubt as to whether the introduction
of that system would be beneficial. He thought that Govern-
ment should take the subject into consideration, and he was also
of opinion that the inquiry should take place in Ireland; for
which purpose he intended to move, as an amendment on the
motion, an address to the Crown to appoint a commission to •
investigate the subject.—(Hear, hear.) the amendment which
he would submit was so worded as not to pledge the house to
any opinion on the subject. of the introduction of poor laws into
Ireland, nor indeed would it point directly to that object. The
amendment was as follows :—"That a humble address be pre-
sented to 'His Majesty, praying that he would be graciously
pleased to give directions that a commission do issue, to inquire
into the condition of the poorer classes of his Majesty's subjects
in Ireland, and into the various institutions at present esta-
blished by law for their relief." In such a case as this he
thought it would not be right to give the commission the power
of recommending the adoption of any measure. All that he re-
quired was, that they should obtain correct information as to the
condition of the people of Ireland, and as to what means they at
present possessed of obtaining relief. When that information
was before them they might decide whether a system of poor
laws, freed from the faults of the English system, should be in-
troduced into Ireland ; and if, on the contrary, they should decide
that such a system ought not to be introduced, the Irish people
would see that the house had come to that decision, not from a
want of humanity for or a sympathy with them, but from a de-
sire to promote their best interests. (Cheers.) The noble lord
concluded with moving his amendment.
Mr. O'CONNELL wished to be permitted to second the amend-
ment, and in making that offer the house would see that he gave
his humble approbation to the view which the noble lord took of
the subject. Ile had come down to the house with the intention
of addressing them at considerable length, but the proposition
which had been made rendered it unnecessary for him to do so.
The hou. and learned member concluded by seconding the
amendment proposed by Lord Althorp.
Sir R. PEEL hoped that they would not proceed to legislate
on this subject without the most ample information before them
which was within their reach. He would suggest to the noble
lord that much valuable information might be obtained through
the foreign ministers resident in this country. They would be
able to give, or picture, information respecting the laws in their
countries applicable to the relief of the poor. It would be im-
portant to know what were the laws applicable to the relief of
the poor in large cities or iu rural districts, and what provisions
existed for the relief of sudden and extensive distress amongst
that class. Foreign courts would, he was sure, be ready to af-
ford every information on those subjects, and there had been of
late years so great an improvement, and so much information
collected on those subjects by foreign powers, that it would be
important to consult them in an inquiry such as was now pro-
posed, and he was sure the disposition existed on the part of those
powers to give every information which they possessed.
The motion was then put, and negatived without a division,
and the amendment of Lord Althorp was adopted.
Mr. Ricrimans suggested that after the words " such provi-
sions" the words " as by law existed" shouldbe omitted as those
words would narrow the inquiry too much.
An hon. Member suggested that the words should be "by laW
or otherwise ;" and with this addition the amendment was agreed

to.
Mr. Cayley was called on by the Speaker, on his notice of a
motion for a committee on the distress of the country.
An hon. Member said that Mr. Cayley. was prevented by in-
disposition from attending to bring on Ins motion, but that he
would take an early opportunity of bringing it forward.

DEBTOR AND CREDITOR IN SCOTLAND.
The LORD ADVOCATE moved for leave to bring in a bill for
rendering the payment of creditors more certain and expedi-
tious, and for the better regulation of mercantile bankruptcies
in Scotland. The learned lord prefaced his motion with some
remarks, but the state of the house was such, that neither these,
nor some observations of Mr. C. FEnGussois, were heard in the
gallery.—The motion was agreed to.
COTTON WEAVERS.
Mr. J. MAXWELL moved to refer the petitions of the cotton-
weavers for local boards of trade, and other regulations for the
improvement of their trade, to a select committee. The hon.
member, who could with difficulty be heard, enlarged upon the
distress and misery under which the hand-loom-weavers were
suffering, and suggested some modes of relieving them. He
was ready to withdraw his motion; if the noble lord (Althorp)
would allow the petitions to be referred for inquiry to the
select committee on trade and manufactures he was to move for
this evening.
Mr. DUNLOP could bear witness to the extreme distress of
the weavers in the west of Scotland : they expected that their
situation would be inquired into by this house ; he therefore,
begged the noble lord to permit their petitions to be referred to
the committee he was about to move for, as he was sure they
would be satisfied when they knew that their distress was the
subject of the inquiry of a committee of that house.
Lord ALTHORP concurred in the opinion of the hon. member
(Mr. Maxwell), that the house ought to show a sympathy to-
wards this unfortunate class of men; but he doubted the expe-
diency of referring their petitions to a special committee, or of
giving to local boards the power of fixing the rates of wages,
which would be most mischievous, and to none more than to
the petitioners themselves.
Arr. J. MAXWELL made a few observations in reply, which
were inaudible, and concluded by withdrawing his motion.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.—DOVER ELECTION.
Mr. HALcame, in introducing his motion for inquiry into
the proceedings connected with the two last Dover elections,
said that he did not mean to charge the ministers of the Crown
directly with an undue interference to influence the votes of
persons connected with the Post-office and Ordnance establish-
ments at Dover; but if the circumstances which he intended to
refer to were founded in fact, he was sure it would be the opinion
of the house that some individual behind the curtain, possessing
government influence, had unduly interfered in those elections.
The hon. member then read some communications which had
passed between him and several of the electors of Dover, from
which it appeared that Mr. Bigden, the clerk of the works un-
der the Board of Ordnance, had been suspended after the first
election because he had voted for him (Mr. Holcomb), and an
individual named O'Sheeve, brought from Ireland with his
wife and family (a laugh) and installed in his situation until
the second election was over, when Mr. Bigden was restored.
The hon. member instanced cases, founded on the same com-
munications, of individuals connected with the board, who, from
fear of suffering the same suspension, had been induced to
vote against him, though they had previously promised him
their suffrages. The weight of alleged government interest
had been, he contended, made use of against him by Captain
Stanhope's committee, and the terror of dismissal held over
the voter connected with the government establishments at
Dover if they refused to give the gallant colonel their votes.
The object of his motion was to ascertain the quarter from
whence this influence was brought to bear upon the election,
and from whence the correspondence emanated which led to
the first suspension and subsequent restoration of Mr. Bigden.
The hon. member said that he had also the best evidence that
letters were sent round to all the captains of the Post-office
packets, directing them to. vote for Captain Stanhope, ou pain
of dismissal, and alleged that many of them expressed to him
(Mr. Holcomb) their deep regret that they were unable, in con-
sequence of the receipt of these letters, to fulfil their promises
to him. It was the duty of the house, he contended, to insti-
tute an inquiry for the purpose of ascertaining from whom
these letters came, as, if the fact of their emanating from
government could be proved, a gross breach of privileges of the
house would be made out. He had, besides, received two let-
ters that very day by the post from Dover, the writer of one of
which informed him that he and 5 others had been dismissed from
the Ordnance department in consequence of refusing to vote for
Captain Stanhope. The writer of the other letter stated that
lie had been sent for by Captain Stanhope himself, who solicited
his vote, telling him that he possessed the government interest,
and that if he did not vote for him, he must take the risk of his
refusal. The hon. member said, that in justice to the right
hon. Under-Secretary to the Treasury, he would state to the
house, that previous to the first election he wrote him a letter,
in which he stated his suspicion, from the circumstances he had
heard, of the ,government interest being actively arrayed against
him. The right hon. gentleman, in reply, stated that he was not
aware of any such interference on the part of government, but
was sure that no person connected with the government esta-
blishments would be deprived of his situation "for voting ac-
cording to his reason and sense of duty." (Hear, hear.) As he
did not exactly like the use of the terms "sense of duty," he
wrote another letter to the right hon. gentleman, in which he
pointed out to him the distinction between sense of duty iu a
voter and his opinion or wish, and threatened, unless le re-
ceived the votes of every person connected with the government
' establishments, he would bring the case before the House of
Commons. (A loud laugh.) He thought he had established a
sufficient ground for inquiry, and founding his motion on the
resolution of the house, which declared it highly criminal in a
minister of the Crown to interfere at an election for a member
of Parliament, should conclude by moving "That a committee
be appointed to investigate the charge of an interference bv, or
' in the name of his Majesty's government, and particularly in
the Ordnance and Post-office departments, at the two late elec-
tions for Dover, in order to influence, illegally and unconstitu-
tionally, the votes of the electors."

sue_6l..ejeopieleteber, ae,.
..em__--
Colonel PBRCIVAL seconded the motion. sh of trtelle7l_ e hen, s---"..."1"
which the hon. useenbet had introduced lies b weal: foortutviieT . hat this aecedies te calling upon the house to t
Mr. P. Thousate said, that after the
Issieed to find his allegations resting on 51-1 C and, °llf to h 44 alt.: h°llSe will his resolution, concluded
He had brought forward the gravest chard his OW, 414 04 ra in th., with as little delay as pa
could find no person on whom to fix thens Forovertireeets;-ill d saleso%4 at aectis, as shall
acts imposing duti
could say that, so far from the influence of gfewer cot,
il_e araouorat landowns shall cause the peers nob]
him in the Dover election, he had actually ,‘, had bei3On ateotait iq their pr, ers (a laugh), to pay, in p
became connected with government than
07k.arld.418:31tracies4 those dutrY (subject to those duti,
had seldom heard a finer specimen of 3 Icosr thatl3'grdti „4 the Zen, manes: as is paid by the fundhol
than had been furnished by the hon. me :, ow ".901,,,, au Cases the classeseturers farmers, meth
Sir .1. GRAHAM said that he wished to
°f fri rel as the ne
rich o of the kingdom and a
subject, in vindication of the character of a Le stat Flo 11r s. Poose r' Pay the said duties in the a
by Vll • lone .0e . ties .
upon which an imputation had been cast 1 i thin •oe a des,. reithed,
hon. member for Dover. He could not 4'l, wsoeg uor. For4°4 Plied, ,
hon. member had brought his case before the
of law 0 4k the
originallPPeared
far as it related to the Post-office. The co artsssa the 're eainst it l:notion
41 0, u- of 0 On M • • • •
to him, and by act of Parliament any 0--ceaable ip.D,,,,tttunai,,-aiority against •
ter-General in particular, were rendered ia f
ted °•,,,qtarittZg the.l tr.) the
i the amendment
serving his Majesty after being once con'achlc dur'slool'' 'II endedtrade motion.ery, a conversation was i
interference in election matters. The 11°. it eta 0, ~,i l‘lt, AC ,e Isla of Lord Altlanp for a
of the Post-office was most anxious to have stivillsi 'l'd ALl:wood, manufactures. In reply to so
he had not shown any want of respect to V i'Screahie, ii; "mg al tioßp said that
house, nor forgotten the duties of the high ocrideed iu
.iir Voete. °relit
opinions,
(Hear, hear.) The noble duke had Pr"ecie.ctieu atefir it Aryls so as to represent fully t 1
with remarkable caution. On the first e „nee lath aeir oon said it
ceptance of office a decided instance of iter's„ on v"..vl
s `.leas
the sa would be convenient if the
the government candidate occurred in Car g, was, -ire% "as sot .'4
PIA it t Ines.
"rallOtiollt
an oficer connected with the Post-offiee, w _., i, re At a tab to 0 the noble lord whether, '
if t
vs it 11°4'1001104 .1141 th the whale (s
the fact was known, discharged. (—e` b lost-oil !, e Info the the c oh?"), could ai
the late election the noble duke sent to e%,et frfse el; tlthe etttrade and
committee he was about to n
Britain, and to each packet-station an esl, vas at'."- igis:efiasteuti°ll of the
°mraerce and shipping ? I
Parliament, pointing out the penaltya whicei t'he oble, Id 4. rY to know
ulaolise to this fact, thal it wi
interference. (llear, hear.) An as h resent 014401 asr, .aat were to be the object
foreseen that some such charge as the e
- lidate at t tViessi,des ofit°l,llP said that
ferred against him by a disappointed ow
.. /jar ,ti) 4 tie„ his tue sou at it had been thought d
to -lir' .ly illA tor,' ho se that
directed Sir F. Freeling to write a letter isate t teitt4. hie , a committee should bt
of packets at that place, " advising
et Prioy of the jel rlttlerees ee's sinut_ou (Mr. Baring) objected to
terference on the part of officers iu th einP eote_f,,et IsS,who quirt', he must remind him that
disqualified to take any part in elections cooed'' (II ' !ter, tet 'ea for such a committee on the
viewed and treated in the most serious iivgaprolletr, mince e? words from
and suggesting that "he would probably ta1T(0,,.) '01; 1 ' BUpply. Mr. Young, the house
to notify this to the proper parties. ' (pleat, lettere9 r' ttst,
to this he had in his possession the copy e sires.o ellrTett, L, in moving ESTIMATES.
Mr. Hart on the Ist of May, stating that thei
also
op isedy madeear( recapitulated asg the estimates for the lan
received had been carefully attended to; al"!
theseby ).4t,tioitli hy bii the statements whit
tion from five captains of post-office paesSia-1 t lie ;Ilesex :log that ~ slit hon. predecessor (Sir J.
at Dover, denying that any influence ad ieeenciectiOse, 1 tee 4
occasioned tauelstimwas the intention of the hon. i
meat in order• to influence heir votes a the 'lle goal, he 41,41 ea be., e reductions. The addition i
Tho honourable gentleman had appealed to t
.1 ode 7, se, for
,1,11,g required for
state of Ireland and 0:
house; he also made that appeal (hear, hearlisat t° soUlt°.o. the
her, ss for the former and aboi
the house would agree with him in thilikingos of s ft,
V t sires e right hon, e additional number being
their time had been wasted in the consider asai i.:150r! A ,ed 5,,,,, . 01i1ti0,_...,,gentleman concluded by
originated in election squabbles. He colOot toted `-to 2t.)..t``!et exec That That it is the opinion of this
that the principle upon which the evernnieua of so t'tv '
ViritaiesfraY the rig 3,168,216 14s. Id. be gri
interfere for the purpose of influencing the re' se of g s °iv of ,i'' and I Charge of his Majesty ' 1
s an
auea es ) s. the re . relent' • a •
and all that they exacted was, that the in ,csee . a I, oess geseut_ . , an on service abroad, ,
should not be turned against themselves. S satisfie f..(l4leny, . sin the tertitorial possessions
Sir J. R. REID expressed himself perfeet Afte,rat 4:!erasi: obsessed,
explanation made by the right hon. bar°"ebelieve that ''
,(1 hits nt not only that ministers were bound I
right hon, baronet lied stated he could not _at lb 1, the
xo pe,___Y the services which the publi
vernment had exercised any undue influence .. s the Istfi_ seesw_Vall, but the capability of the
tion for Dover. rof l''' re i rtva e how fary such establishments.
total. deg 522 r year we could _ He w
Lord LENNOX begged to say., on ~ „vest I, . , ss_,s. in 1.. bring down the army
native, that he never had interfered in the 506 iltilfiraeru; ie 18z21 the number of troops 1
election for Dover. (Hear, hear.) tia Mr. hianci,l,Nuber ,-,, 69,000; and in 1824, 73,0
After a few words from Mr. M. PhilriPs a ,uti:001, be of men, rank and file, in the
the motion was negatived without a diyisiden.stop 0 te"._,r of etcrospt, Mound it amounted to 61,900, s
The report of the committee upon th _f er,‘e to° la 16,4, k and file, this year was 78,
having been brought up, eisa voii a tete This za men on the averae of the
Mr. RICE said that the noble lord the Chall.ce see° d ,tt ~, aketi was exclusive of officers; whet
s, lo sst • t the a . ut e
chequer intended to move that these acs-tbat a
ote I tjEagiouhses,„e expensemnta amounted
committee to-morrow, in order to propose rtisesie to ex 30(117 no; it amounted
of pay in the three y
Is. 6d. be placed on the insertion of adve.,ollo3 0 i
tedeklielh fi item amounted to £3,168,000, an
papers, instead of the fluctuating duty °rl iliallti to ji:re or 182,a,vone, or an excess of 21 pe:
the financial statement. a the s' pa t.4le
?When lastly tins increase of expense ? Was
the Exchequer, then postponed till to-niorrrlieto ie st), or I, the
thePseoPle were groaning under th
the appointment of the committees to jog"' ptse ate ,f ? our foreignwas'
relations? He denied
The other orders of the day were then a 1 sr sli of b periods _ he had been assured, at
house adjourned at half-past 2 o'clock. 0,
,4,,,1, tol4ltrope referred to than it was at preset]
FRIDAY. , sell° e illervi the s• was less settled-and it -
after •‘ofd, ii(, asked Istacha
The Speaker took the chair shortly ace Le see t ees hill.) nees in South America. I
which time there was a tolerably full atten?e'd at V.P6$l hie wolatia, that to point out specific items fo:
The Deputy Clerk of the Crown atteaatoo 010, tit the
ii he eiti , instead of 44,0(X) troops fee
amended the return for the county of the,sti, jai, w05411,4e,
of sufficient. In the colonies
substituting the name of Martin J. Blake, '''a aochisse sd ole el te unfair that was necessary. He
L. Maclachlan, Esq., who had been declare,.
orcs7., i kits, Pottait_a to ask ministers to make a r
On the motion of Sir G. SK IPWITH, tilelio.creo scot be` elapee'je of the year, seeing that a c
to the London and Birmingham railway bill tit `,,' tr't eses_shotaduefore reduction 4 could be car
time, and agreed to. u 0 'it "s of Pro Pose to strike off •
titiolls the • vote `'. Th. /ilea
The house was occupied in receivingpe
sect
pr di , , 4(_ is w above the average scale o
when Mr. Blake took the oaths and his se'tes the ,i9asl,',reedervaild amount to a reduction of
he town of Galway ; and the Speaker Vaea , ir'',l' co7a!N Nseonsideration, which would be
t_ tieN
sv aided ,_ • Id. to £2,888,771 I4s. Id.
, Vesie4ev iisits'Y moving an amendment to thi
eti'orfet pisthi'l'lVN.a.E said that it would be quit,
boat et'llddleseg like the reduction proposed
eefivsita,aY reass.x. A reduction of 19,000 tney
si tesee‘vaie in reason
that he was sure the coma
..oiste.Lo the a"PPorttog the vote of his right
rei,,, atee ment.
Ar, e4e it then divid d dth ssillstilyeetaiment e, an e numbers ma

, I,cit f tlie
The Speaker resumed the chair at 5 0 c `) rt 0, ,e'
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that as the re l°000):"11,
Laken before the Carrickfergos election e,.. to laligi
printed, he should feel it his imperative clet bac JI
house a bill for the disfranchisement of Oldie irrelh
committee were decidedly of opinion that hostedf
to issue to the present class of voters• -Astoascli if
not bring the question distinctly before the Pef tire t„.,
of May, and as the term of the suspension forthee
expire on the 13th, he should move that it be an} '9' 11Q •
until the Ist of June. He did not anticipate , .4, ,o‘t)rigi
this arrangen....,nt. t WiPr 444141 ba • Majority
r dt ,t verl sen, (than
Lord ALTHORP said, that from the rel. he ri• 0P• orcegtvea r - was then agreed to.
laid upon the table, it was quite clear that t der t° of 0. th 4-(oliti "loped and th
or he 14 .111 ay ,e report was or,
rough in question ought to be suspended ill of t .1,0 ,ii,,, Toy
.•
f:,,,„,i,,,5, Moved that a select committee
for further information. The term, howeverot tote
ought not, in his opinion, to be protracted lelheP;.B Eals, a`.4e all "e Pal, and emoluments of ge e
t that 13 jots heerta• Ili g Y, a•ur •
cessary ; and be therefore would sugges d tins
it, /ki, blitilJ' Ivha,.als and colonels of marines, witvt
be fixed, instead of the Ist of June, ao 0 to
would allow the hon, and learned genthol:la
,i tlieNts(::„.&;,,servicel'Laving might be effected withot
bill previously. , a 1,,,, , klnulth'wooo Agreed to.
Mr. O'CONNELL agreed to this suggcstied",;f lo''',.:‘,'•er,et,'lllit 'liter, loved' for returns of the name
ordered to be further suspended till the 22n iiitier;/})ioile,;'lltry°tlo£lo,4 k on the Bank books
Mr. O'CONNELL asked the right hon. L'tutO
~ pie 4,44., for ) and upwards. His ob'e t
the Treasury Why the Irish population rccht tbei iNg'4r.ol' iliameta,judgment on the motives ethw
moved for were not yet printed. He thout,bstracoollealoti4) oers in certain recent votes.—(
t
the 3,tool,altrt,t,t,:,:eoxtlii,-,:tigt,stritLh.darsalli at the suggestion of L
been made out much earlier, since
presented last session only required corre-1
purpose. times..o r pr est , 0 so inquisitorial a cir
Mr. S. RICE said that he believed much Le, ie ktP,bri,4l,,Y4te,i case
could justify its ado Ai p '
pied in correcting the returns, but that to ' tol thelat,,io4C. conversation on the fines wile
in coeo,g‘reyq..foli,ie 44,,00gebet. (2r1(33,i(1 his motion for committee:
i coining very shorty, clock), when the house was
Mr.-Alderman '1 HONIPSON stated, that be
L., ow r 4
At 4 tale,tnigs
intimation he had received from the noble ''''' 'tioa f 0` it 'lligth they merited,
it impossible for him to enter upon the digheuesetabg
et 1: 401518 op
r•
to move the appointment of
which stood for that evening, relative to t . 0 et, Q la, • citirßy___A
vessels, he was compelled to postpone it. oea b's/1 attl'llikrgit4 said th GRICULTIRAL AND C
.A.,k1(1., !tir.., tees t_ . at in rising to move the I
Mr. Hume for the same reason, potP.°4le,
five to the recent proceedings at Coutann°,,ortg_aa`iF;‘)e4:!itpi,?!iot,re",.!tiquire separately into the s
subject of his motion to be of so much i-ri."aciP/ retio:,:e3,i,"°.; incest•, and 2d, into the state of t
hoped he should have the opportunity of iut ° tliet:s hg. rrliY far iiriest of the country, said th
day next. late, ztlqi,irY exp6reog forward his
ismotion he yit
r that to k eto let ,11 btin,,i'll to enter into any argumer
Lord ALTHORP assured the hon. merobens net
cretary for Foreign Affairs was so very ill tore
tt4yttert.', (loudssed to him that house ,
speak for five minutes consecutively. (the 1/3005 h0t,,,,k,',ui0n,,. cries of " Hear,") not hi
Colonel DAvIEs postponed a motion iri t
ii, qkek t'•d lea,l anyt very sanguine expectati
we could not learn) he had fixed for to-,dtqoret,d4 ?Ila ilihltiiii was hiso any material benefit.—(l
s.ehre Nereace flat all instituted would so fa
the indisposition of the noble Secretary- or. ~ hea? 'll)rtii tefe'Y be Own opinion, he still thou;
Mr. Hume said that ou a previous eveirtVe Pe tip
,I
1.1 ate ?1ie......, 1 the expectations of that
attention of the house to the filling UP °
Admiralty Court. lie had now to express 0 of te g e to 1),8;ad,,
,sk ear, hear.) He divided hi
No 41+1 ,I‘4ll4,i'io:lyinced that the division of I
thol t4l N.
.tiN,,,:t results. The only different
fice wouia not be filled up until the oPini° • to b o°l
been taken with regard to the proper salarilatise' Pt
eftii,soti;?obi? the inquiry into the shipp
had ascertained, from returns made to thc,,..), 001,;00 ests, bf th,,J!,itig,' was that which might ari,
i'v of the Judge of the Admiralty was in 1` ,00, gat,
sea A ro e forately Jett Iv' ended that all who took an
That salary was afterwards increased to Ile did 10 t'iiil:, ere jets
into the manufacturing and
raised to its present amount, 1:2,50k 1
1 4lle te
find that the business of the court had ilichrei", 0° Plat. tiire .t4li° Qiild agree with him, that the s
amount of salary; on the contrary, theY vet the 0" c,s-1,511t0 the 1 to warrant a separate in
each other, and he, therefore, thought th''' .le o IN,e!'d 4,„s st„t, that the following committee'
reduction. of tl
ea ties bey p filth "t ' of the •agriculture of the I:
W.,orti U• Edward Ellice, Sir 11 kin
Lord ALTHORP replied, that the dude tivi'ea; \kri:,)(totl,erel, Alf Sir James Graham, Lord JI
Coon pro 4 :\ Nil, v t, p, dmeiie, Sir John Sebright, I
certainly light during the time of peace'.,evcobaby.
heavy in time of war. The question,
tr. \,,,rir ,ule),, rOvn, Sir J. Dalrymple, Mr
consideration of government, and- it we on the 7 of, t
duty to submit sonic measure to the house roinoaro ri) At . NVtlwo.rirr C. Lemon, Mr. R. Cli
Mr. J. JERVIS wished, as there was ,a the it deti; I,ls ,‘‘l. 114 hittno.. Knatchbull, Mr. Sanford,
in the Court of Exchequer, to know woe h or ,t, Nit. 11,1141, B.!°, Mr. Bennett, Mr. mil
tiou of government to fill that vacancY Ted to ,alYf
~Q41;5,,:•,,,ttenti11..0. Heathcote, Mr. M. Al
bill about to be brought in it was inter' is Oda tl' C 4,11.9. ,Sir ,r.t, Mr. Childers, Sir Wil
the judgeships. If the business of the c°Yrsaatlic f.tho'llkitte Murray,al Mr. Roberts and
pti 41,
AtertstsqltiOrt
by 14 judges, why should the county; b' „re °,01.5 besue was , .
alPaouited without observatic
of select committee be apr
pense of 15 ?
Lord ALTHORP replied that he wag f the
ot ae‘cotift .'1,1),R tat ei31,(1,r1. th
cancy having occurred in the judgeship ° boa' ktf,,4l-1., , our commercial, manuft:
quer. (A laugh.) r the i' Peoer',%v"° h
On the order of the day being read iel* the ?o,lZikl th,s Praeticoapied that this committee w
' a committee of supply.oil cl, ~i“ ti .141 %Litt dY acquainted with the ci
.hint lira tL4
can
0? ry.
Mr. COBIIETT rose to make a comp aria Ice .ere his said that
working classes of England, Scotland, bthey 0 a11iV41,414,1, grieui,_ as he had put some ni
of the great partiality of taxation, of whicror 00100. 111.`° 1
ford,. ge_s.lial nriQL,,srl committee he thou..
• They complained of the various duties for paYolati°,. lle. 4t
(/;n. The2uld not be composed co
• which were laid upon them, and from the ► kpq • y,,ear.) committee was to
of tP
greater part of which the richer portion aattc, o c
cm,
~o
the' that the peculiar
vi 1-4 ' shipping interest rend

reeding
--...„---................------...._
lentil Pitegirta seconded the motion-rish of trilrePePle hon 4:".."1"meme......1..........m...m.
iu motions, 0b... TekoPle by member after calling upon the house to do its duty to
he le n ' etlab
P. Tuestaots said, that after the fl
to his resolution, concluded with moving
will, with
.little delay as possible, make
the hon. uteimhei b,ad introduced h-sob we °foie}, 'at thrs
i to find Isis allegations resting introduce
5'15 31/(1'111100;11d 44
elteratr
ad brought forward the gravest charge ,Fai. his
..,
.0,,,, on sales
_, n in the seve •
(acauselaagh tlli, etap epearsy:
in nobles,
proportionba ne ttsa,
vetefo,ne arnokat roefat Landowners
l find no person on whom to fix them: evernine";,-,,c" other g 4t auction as
shallil acts imposing duties on stamps
say that, so far from the influence ojr
n the Dover election, he had actual y,, had u ho. athokut i their pro 1
than ' nd-a' llta, trades 11 tiles duties, prone
(subject to those d •
ne connected with government k
e---a nip-estoan„ - as i • duties), as great
eldorn heard a finer specimen member that 70.1 all the lad, manufactu s paid by the fuudholders, annui-
had been furnished by the hon.
gfewer
noble scon eases thustrious elasserers, farmers, mechanics, and the
•J. GRAHAM said that he wished to of treed Mee the e rich to sof the kingdom, and as shall cause
ct, in vindication of the character of ahe staFty r. 5,,P00r,,, pay the said duties in the same propor-
tby t • • pig Oe a • 'let re •
i piled_
which an imputation had been cast
.1e,.) thin
~.joi do;
sio 1
member for Dover. He could not 1 ,ile wrong 'iver. For thellhere appeared :.....
member had brought his case before till of lai.s pe Agai eriginalmot• •
s it related to the Post-office. The cour3", and the ,0,., nst it . ion
f ev.4un •M • • •• .
in, and by act of Parliament any °ificeable °
general in particular, were rendered inc
ea of allattiftri4g the g 4" the gaper st the amendment —2'24
ng his Majesty after being once c
ennoble duke iirh; ee „o intended motion
a conversation was going on re-
Ti
ference in election matters. I,_.e a es. er LO M. An ii manufactures.
Wimp for a select com-
e Post-office was most anxious to iRaS,,, nriViet h 4. rd ALI wood, actures. In reply to some remarks
ad not shown any want of respect to, toutlieewlite_Liell;ag diffeltlonp said that he
e, nor forgotten the duties of the high. e ,ed in "r;,,hokse. differ opinions, had selected gentlemen enter-
ar, hear.) The noble duke had proG.eaanea attgo;alr ktrw ssoas to represent fully the feelings of
remarkable caution. On the first et i.c.rence ll!he e,id NA. 8 eeD said it
ante of office a decided instance of inter4art, on tur iLtaitate the
nam would be convenient if the noble lord
government candidate occurred in Cart.!ifa was, layint.was Ilot 4 Put it to ths.
Ificer connected with the Post-office, 'shear.)
tri e at, ,a tuh to the e noble lord whether, if this commit-
fact was known, discharged. (Ilearb )0
~fiee oite , a than „ whale (" oh?"), could any thing be
it" a%v L'ato trade the
committee
ate election the noble duke sent to eaet . 0
let .re he; th the att ae and
en__ he was about to move for, to
sin, and to each packet-station an rya, attae rikt_a eratmention of the ',amerce and shipping ? He wished to
.lament, pointing out the penalty
as 0010 ht ,td Y. entry to know house to this fact, that it was important
rference. (Hear, hear.) An as if ~sent air 4)4.141, what were to be the objects of the in-
as the Pr:. candidate at ty AA, IIORp
seen that some such charge adida art, tw sof the said that it had
id against him by a disappointed ea
..
qr. flatist , Ileh hi. he hnuse that
cted Sir F. Freeling to write a letter WrivatelY 9 ry klalitt: ;ell- friend a committee should be appointed.
ackets at that place, "advising him 1)_,0„, del 4 terso_ e s inhm, .
,(Mr. Baring) objected to the• scope of
t la 1 u uho 1 r 3., he must • •
irence on the part of officers iu the eni1"01,00no,
,note It, i2l. /fused for remind him that he was the
sub-
ualified to take any part in elections .
ler (al
~ Leta fer. such a committee on these very
fed and treated in the most serious io.al a prer,:a , ilittee o words from A
suggesting that "he would robablv 110, var.) :01 1... t supply. Ir. Young, the house went into a
otity this to the proper parties" (1101 a ietlertions
,1.1.1,,, , An„
its he had in his possession the copy ° airee ~, , reat ,-,in - e ESTIMATES.
' that the ses, MN. ,lear .moving the estimates for the land forces for
Hart on the Ist of May, stating d also bole era ahe h "ftaPitula
•ived had been carefully attended to; a"ts
, the 'c b< detaattni, y his
ri_ht , ted the statements which had been
from five captains of post-office pael`e ' been 05t4.1 st , Ilesex ...e, that it 8:.. hon. predecessor (Sir J. Hobhouse,)
ad bee etiall aee .-, teo . N% as the intention
lover, denying that any influence h .tede s, o oce_ ,%e some
reductions. of the hon. member for
l in order to influence fheir votes at the 'lb, gen he riaeli beiasiorted by The addition to the forces
honourable gentleman had aprealed to
~ an _ 7,a,rforn required for
state of Ireland and the Colonies,
se ;he also made withp.l hear, hearlilat toy
, Thee 1-cr, the the former and about the same
house would agree him in thinkiliF„,„ °fall of ,
at4,,res 1.64 hon. additional number being about 6,000
r time had been wasted in the considerartoredio 14411,0
tan(luton_.....‘, ,ggaentleman concluded by moving the
lusted in election squabbles. He "" lent actefoi eatl),,th clef eleeedim, •tit is the opinion of this committee,
the principle upon which the governoesatt 0
cgo ' t. h'ritajbir.aY the t, £3,168,216 I4s. Id. be granted to his
rfere for the purpose of influencing roe cl; .'1:- of the an the
Irelaenharge of his Majesty's land forces in
all that they exacted was, that the iuna,cheets•ia ,h.(leio„., regimen,
,d, and on service abroad, with the ex-
ild not be turned against themselves.
ti satisfier ichisilicfrzally . Ls in the territorial possessions of the East
it J. R. REID expressed himself perfec that Aft l'ittsetationebserved,
lunation made by the right hon. b 000.
e„
ev e v,,, , hio tiot
~... that ministers were bound to take into
it hon. baronet lad stated he could not b_"at the ' "trii(lthe•lexto pelzy the services which the public establish-
1t
had exercised any undue iLiflllenCu .5 A: II()Ose rtSe oir, but the capability of the country to
i for Dover. of his
~,r„rker low f„,_ such establishments. He would submit
beha" t (leg' '22 csears 'r we could •
,ord LENNOX begged to say., on silo 1 ' -,000 'ln 1821 bring down the army to the scale
ve, that he never had interfered in the
:tion for Dover. (Hear, hear.) and Sr' irreld ispliber or, 69,000; and in 1824, 73,000. Taking
Ster a few words from Mr. M. Phps a adtk,," of Ihe ~
amen, rank and file, in the years 1822,
motion was negatived without a diyisicin•sto ki.r (if ,boefvs, ra-wnl dit amounted to 61,900, whereas the
'lie report of the committee upon the of„ 0 to. I,a 16,000 k and file, this year was 78,500—an in-
ing been brought up, aceller„to boo hit, /his vi. men on the average of the three years
Ir. RICE said that the noble lord the Chan be reS"o s ‘;'. 11 account as exclusive of officers - when the were
e acts aP. i '-2605 e aver the augmentation' y
quer intended to move that these that nts j,(xin Ajo erage ex
,_ amounted to nearly
amittee to-morrow, in order to propose, tisetse nro ex .'"011 till ilow it Pense of pay in the three years quoted
6d. be placed on the insertion of adsloitiallY r Cedeadia " item ,amounted to £3,168,000, au increase of
.to•re er I atone, o excess
leis, instead of the fluctuating duty 01. '' ell h Justify 822,-
financial statement. ~e t, ihe tif . 1823 and 1804 What .•
dtu 01 at' wit v this • , - •circumstances
lord e to , ea • is mere
4r. RICE, in the absence of the noble ,th ~,e • atth. 117 the people increase of ex ens: ? Was it prudent,
Exchequer, then postponed till to-morr% .to i. v
ia le sc, or 03 thea were groaning under the weight of
appointment of the committees to ingll'i , Pt's, att Of fl our fougthentation justified by the state of the
iculture, and of trade and manufacturesi,snosea loe at th, reland
,_r!ign relations? He denied that it was.
rhe other orders of the clay were then "i r
~ hf eeriati, re%nesr, he had been assured, and believed,
Ise adjourned at half-past 2 o'clock. 0L
~he to yop,
,_
lessred to than it was at present; the con-
FR IDAY. tolve„ •o!rierid the dirt 4 settled; and it was unnecessary
after of P. 'ttild asked hits in South America. If his
rhe Speaker took the chair shortly daiiee ,be ,o
ich time there was a tolerably full
attended
at ',oil ide otal(' Y that !.° Point
oftou specific items for reduction,
rhe Deputy Clerk of the Crown atteneutoo 01
the
t it
Ithe
tit oilll instead 44,000 troops for England,
ended the return for the county of the sq., jail
,vihelonldl?,lber ,!.,.'fYrnslifficient. In the colonies too we had
ostituting the name of Martin J. 131akc,
ea una."lo;pe ,d e ex, e unfair that was necessary. He was aware
Maclachlan, Esq., who had been declar , orcps
_ain i , tol,s, teitai„. h- to ask ministers to make a reduction on
)n the motion of Sir G. S K [MITI!, tillivierer' :tit he' lapse‘Ye of the year, seeing; that a considerable
ef-
the London and Birmingham railway h"' tii3 1.4 ex,eselloulduefore reduction 4 could be carried into
se, and agreed to. , 910 . , It, 3of PruPOSC to strike off six months' pay of the
1101' tlie ' tat ' Th then a
rhe house was occupied in receivingpet' at for chs e 40_ is r_ . bove the average scale of the years
en Mr. Blake took the oaths and his seteS tbe I,s,le.nade',.°ll. Id amount to a reductiou a £279,441 on
town of Galway ; and the Speaker vaca ir''',r_ eo,p6 I.',_(-onsideration, which would be diminished
t_l44iledr• Id. to £2,888,771 14s. ld. The hon.
' him," II "Y moving
be , Aantis.
.g an amendment to this effect.
„4
urfor ,airvhi,..
like
said tat it would be quite preposter-
atnt.4lloldi„lg like the reduction proposed by the hon.
lio- all `sex- A reductionof 19 000
refe sitati reason
that
ie
~renee on in
__ , he was sure the committee would
For the 'aPporting the vote of his right hou. friend
rot ,"ittte amendment
.k e then
,a 4,8 ,:ine„ divided, and the numbers were—
' tit "`nt
-70
- . . 238

Ile Speaker resumed the chair at 5 o'clor•—, of
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that as the rePr' 010',
:en before the Carrickfergus election c° to lai,
,rated, he should feel it his imperative (WY,. bor°:to
use a bill for the disfranchisement of thaie or",
carnittee were decidedly of opinion that thlosire'iii
issue to the present class of voters. Asascioi;
t bring the question distinctly before then''„f• tbe ,•
May, and as the term of the suspene "forthe'oisi•
pare on the 13th, he should move that it °e 80°'
til the Ist of June. He did not anticipate ,
11:"
.s arrangeunt. a it for
Lord ALT boar said, that from the rell.;, Ivo 51f4
d upon the table, it was quite clear that t
vier tot ,o.
10 in question ought to be suspended jo ° of 01;0
• further information. The term, however, vet.t,vl
ght not, in his opinion, to be protracted 1°115,1e Arro
ssary ; and he therefore would suggest th3'o,o „;tl,
fixed, instead of the Ist of June, Oa to
luldprev an allow the hon. and learned gem
and a th
ious. .
r. O'CONNELL agreed to this suggestioc.f 1414
dered to be further suspended till the 22111intletlic.
Mr. O'CONNELL asked the right hon. vas
e Treasury Why the Irish population tetht"thel I
owed for were not vet printed. He thou° bstra',ooo,
en made out much earlier, since the 3,00
esented last session only required Car"'
trpose. ba'd
Mr. S. RICE said that he believed much 61'1%01
ed in correcting the returns, but that theY
ecitie I
luring very shorttl-. • coDs .fof;
Mr. Alderman '1 HOMPSON stated, that ~°„et,ao,ol'
timation he had received from the noble tO
lairs, to the effect that his severe indispos,l4oo
sible for him to enter upon the dry
•-he

tlt 0,.
4e h'tiaai Maj oritv • '
se kotion
then was than agreed to.
Nttqloneesnmed, and the report was ordered to be
°hightlitlN, 4Y.
,elll,,Pute hit moved that a select committee be
.appositant
14418"ttie ari„,""c Pay and emoluments of general and
rear--
he p ancrinto the emoluments of vice and rear
4 -14 in '''tterals and colonels of marines, with the. view
it, Ppllblie \Vhat
saving might be effected without detriment
cfk4ewtr,rice•--Agreed to.
kie,; the t,"°l3 moved for returns of the names of the re-
"llh rote of stock on the Bank books, holding to
4,4:itty to 410,000
, and upwards. His object was to enable
Ill,,t411'3111`)Iti. a judgment on the motives that might have
-ar>> Inembers in certain recent votes.—(" Oh, oh !"
he 41Qti
'lll Wks •
the litld th I!lthdrawn at the suggestion of LriAlthorP,
114,41.:1)1..‘ale4,ttletalvas iniqfui.stistourdivapi
tiaunc.haracter that
acted case couiu Just
},‘ conversation on the inexpLdiency.o.f Luo.rd
Dt- 4oti? ',6,,rward his motion for committees of Ing
Leeed•hk4 o'clock) when the house was exhausted,
Iry
r tetil-g8 could not, be expected to go before
strt 1-t8
they merited,
"11 lose to move the appointment of
11061 ."?

impost
hich stood for that evening, relative to tit' .
' 4 :e 4el6rd 'CWIRY—AGRICULTURAL AND COMMERCIAL.
essels, he was compelled to postpone it. ficawl"l ktlNlkriait kid
tnett0pte.30,6i,44.,1444,tee„,,. that in rising to move the appointment
Mr. HustE for the same reason, nes
veto the recent proceedings at Constautl...,,ort4,it ~e 4llpi,',%isttor`e"..!nquire separately into the state, Ist, of
ihject of his motion to be of so mucls
tir"-AlciP/ 7)ti,`,.:e3%'., titte:!:,s and 2d, into the state of the commer-
Dped he should have the opportunity of in her:N J. I!y.f.„ hi,! tof the country, said that it would
iy next. ber that
tirePliqaet; etal;',llrih,.:4"l to enter into any. arguments to justify
k te,
ti11q.,,i,), extras forward his motion he yielded to the
Lord ALTHORP assured the hon. mer°,,, As sie
retary for Foreign Affairs was so very 4" toe
ttNyil.,tertr4si!'s, ii,7_ s,ed to laid hi
that house (hear, hear)
seek for five minutes consecutively. the 11,300 hoti,„'o4l:4`alin`°.O° cries of " Hear,") not,..he was bound
' Colonel DAviEs postponed a 'notion (~. 0' 13 tr 4V this lead ituly very sanguine expectations himself
'e could not learn) he had fixed for to-da:forcit,d4 ?lia iailibi was has any material benefit.—(llear, hear.)
te,,,,_ e p,.,
_etlee g at all instituted would so far be advan-
se indisposition of the noble SecretarY f°1..14, heagc., `l4l's th iekri beiu Own opinion, he still thought that the
Mr. Heath said that ou a previous eveit4.ltVeietlre
ell
,e tlN't:lie......Al the expectations of that house, and
ttention of the house to the filling 11P 0"
almiraltv Court. lie had now to expresS
... Of t_ gi he Qo' beBOds, \u eared) He divided his committee
opinie.; tEI by, sitiotitlld a_ll4e,.ayi that the division of labour would
ce would not be filled up until the
een taken with regard to the proper salaiptis,o that „ef `,ticit,`iat.`-_t results. The only difference of opinion
ad-ascertained, from returns made to tee„.2 001;00 est,i,l4slthe.'!iierit,..",l,vas that which might arise from the
v of the 3udge of the Admiralty was in IV, aoot, 414 thelit heo,lqi,ig,lne inquiry into the shipping interest
!hat salary was afterwards increased to tic dia_lol4 ,tikeiti,'Pprelto the manufacturing and commercial
wised to its present amount, 1:2,500, easeclisao Inuitly
~,t „o,,,e,nded that all who took an enlightened
,aliliiee
tie
tits:i
,:thtittr,_ :4 totceiftioo
rysiet.
(,:itTi
io.aft
jottia
mhlweeaferoa
gsrllaGornlrvtcauianhl
tgaulceropemaLorifn
ioa
rtttedi
ti
eei
jenuouqnheuiniatrf
Russell,
Lord Lnd that the business of the court had illebr„re o°al,o.llireitilettl'iltieo"tn agree with him, that the subjects were
mount of salary; on the contrary, theYL.tic`isttieof
acts other, and he, therefore, thought t°
eduction.
Lord ALTHORP replied, that the duties hoer i,p' \,rl/). 4,1, ' Ir,
.ertaiuly light during the time of peae°'*ever,b,bl,4l44. '
~ 144.. ?rty. ,-, Edward Ellice, Sir R ichard Vyvyan,
Leavy in time of war. The question, Pi , ,
~,w,
sto,W. if,415.
lßelie, Sir John Sebright, Mr. Alexan-
onsideration of government, and it wou en `be -1.0-i,, ILL.vOtr `,folle),:Q.::n, Sir J. Dalrymple, Mr. A. Caylev,`
lute to submit some measure to the house °n or !!, AIW. Vciwkirtr„., C. Lemon, Mr. R. Clive, Mr. Kl.
Mr. J. JEavis wished, as there was ,_a,:i,-t et itoe!, ';_lc,,j. ter hitaio2‘-natchbull, Mr. Sanford, Mr. J. Bul-
n the Court of Exchequer, to know wii`u or of i4all. wilal, stf, Mr. Bennett, Mr. Alildmay, Lord
ion of government to fill that vacaneY fed t0..1,1V
.he,Oiker:• betiLiv,?. Heathcote, Mr. M. Atwood, Lord
All about to be brought in it was ilitenes ceila 4" Natte). Sir J. Murray,
Mr. Childers, Sir William Folkes,
he judgeships. If the business of the eti,.. "olale Atilt Illiitee Murray, Mr. Robarts and Mr. Stanley
sy 14 judges, why should the country b' re Olt, laest. was a
0 1:41 th I°ll 1 PPointed
without observation.
sense of 15 ? _ot as„otp. , Ri_ eel), . tdat 1,
Lord ALTHORP replied that he Was Pi the ii 4 uteres,sditiou
_,. select committee be appointed to in-
otKiisnrsirnteheride:
Fancy having occurred in the judgeshiP ° ,etoeetitt2+ll,,vst , of our commercial, manufacturing, and
quer. (A laugh.) 0 the P tijrec)fl's °on ho ,
On the order of the 4ay being read for the
owl Ati the
eptaetiealr that this committee would be coin-
s. committee of supply. # oil tici,.kiteri 'llo . °llLtry y acquainted with the commerce aud
lain. ~ia tie 04 I,p . •
Mr. COBBETT rose to make a CoraP glad Pr vete his said that,
working classes of England, Scotland, hthey Alio ill te:,.iitill4ie_egricul,_r as he had put some manufacturing
of the great partiaity a taxation, of wilicfor sta° 0104. t,,,, gotirtilal.mieLsithal committee he thought it but just
They complained) of the various duties the p°Yoist' ~ ill,. (iiirieu, ~ould not be composed of exclusively
which were laid upon them, and frora, the poi' a. 441 you ca,.) The committee was to report from
greater part of which the richer portion 04 44t0 C-;, c
_,s ontended that
' , of the.
Shipping interest rendered it abso-