The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1851-10-21 00:00:00

NORTH TOXTETH WARD.

MR. W. FISHER AND THE BURGESSES.
Last night, at eight o'clock, a meeting of the burgesses of this
ward was convened, by placard, to receive Mr. W. Fisher, one
of the present representatives of the ward, and to consider the
propriety of nominating him as a candidate at the approaching
municipal election. The meeting was held in the room known
as Toxteth Hall, in Mill-street, and was very numerously at-
tended.
Amongst the burgesses whom we noticed present were
Messrs. Duncan Gibb, Bland, Hutchinson, Siddeley, Betteley,
Miller, Hetherington, Carter, Hughes, Brown, W. B. Jones,
Dawson, Craig, T. Williams. T. B. Troughton, J. Harrison,
Charles Bal ten, Ogden, J. Williams, Robinson, Watson, Lord,
M'Nicoll, Pyke, Rogers, Plaw, Llewellyn, Williams, Jones,
Wilson, Fenwick, Griffiths, Ames, Alpass, Wakefield, Sewell,
&c., &c., &c.
Mr. ROBERTSON was unanimously voted to the chair, and
the proceedings commenced soon after eight o'clock. The
president having briefly announced the object of the assembly,
Mr. Joirx WILSON alluded to the unhandsome manner in
which the friends of Mr. Fisher considered that gentleman had
been treated, and boldly stated that he was prepared to answer
any questions put to him as to his conduct as a member of the
council. He did not agree with all that he had done, it was
true ; but he admired him as a man who did not and would not
go, when returned three years ago, bound by any pledge to the
Pike-men or the anti-Pike-men; but only consented to be
returned as the unfettered representative, not only of a ward,
but of the interests of the great municipality of Liverpool
itself. (Hear, and cheers.)
No question having been now put,—this course being
requested by the chairman, if any burgess desired it,—
Mr. FISHER said, that there might be no misunderstanding
in that room or out of doors, he would refer to a few of the
principal incidents that 1 nd occurred since he was elected.
He would blink nothing,-1 a was there on his trial as a public
man,—and he hoped the -blic would regard this as a fair
-trial. With regard to the timber question, he was charged
with being an enemy to the south end ; he was not, it was said,
sound on that point. A short time after his election he was
called upon to vote on that question, and not being able to do
so without speaking, he spoke and voted against Mr. Bramley-
Moore's northern scheme, his voice as a young and inex-
perienced member of the Council not having the weight pro-
bably which that of an older member might have. It was
unfair to charge him with being adverse to the interests of the
south end, because he had seen reason to change his views. He
had, it was true, opposed a scheme for the outlay of a large sum
merely for the accommodation of four ships at the south end,
but he trusted, indeed he was assured. that he had never op-
posed the interests of the Toxteth Wards in the way in which
persons out of doors had insisted upon. ( Hear, hear.) He
did not view the question now as it was to be regarded in 1846;
but this fact be would state, that while comparatively idle at
tl.e south end, they would find they were actively engaged in
building at the north. He could give no reason why, but so it
was. In other points he was not aware there was any differ-
ence of opinion between himself and his constituents. If he
went back to the Council, he hoped to go unfettered,

and would never consent to go there to made -a
tool of or to

vote for that which his conscience dictated to be wrong.
(Cheers.) Before he was a member of the Council, the timber-
merchants called out for greater accommodation. Now he
found among the names of those who voted then for the
northern scheme Mr. Stewart, Mr. Horsfall, Mr. Tinne, and
Mr. Jones—gentlemen who were:now quoted against him. He
was sure that they had voted conscientiously, for they were
gentlemen whom he highly respected, and who, he knew, would
not sanction a measure which they did not believe to be con-
ducive to the interests of the borough of Liverpool. (Cheers.)
He believed that they, in that respect, had done what they
thought was right; and he would only add, that he should like
to see the trade so increase that not only the accommodation at
both ends would have to be extended, but that of Birkenhead
might be required also. (Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Mr. McNicHoL, as one who had been induced to look about
for others to represent the burgesses of this ward in the Town
Council, said they had done so, not from personal motives or
feelings, but because they thought Mr. Fisher's votes had been
detrimental to the interests of these wards. The single point
that weighed with them in refusing to continue their confidence
in their esteemed friend Mr. Fisher, as their representative in
the Council, was, his vote and opinion on the question against
the increase of docks in this district to which he had referred.
If the Dock Committee had been determined to frustrate the
south-end scheme, and to cherge a shilling a yard where others
only charged fourpence, then they bad taken the very course
which Mr. Fisher had supported. (Hear, hear.) The speaker
was proceeding to make some comments on a report which,
he said, he held in his band, of Mr. Fisher's remarks in the
Dock Committee on the timber question, when there was great
confusion and cries of " name ;" and Mr. Fisher, at this
moment, rising to order, _ _ _ _

,
The CHAIRMAN complied with the general feeling of the
meeting, that the speech should be read in extenso. This was
accordingly done, and occupied a very considerable time.
Mr. M'NIcHoL, after the reading of the speech, appealed to
the meetirg, whether the whole tenor of it did not argue it to
be Mr. Fisher's opinion, that it was impossible to continue the
timber trade at the south end, and that it should be carried to
the north. He (Mr. 1114/sl.) contended that the removal of the
timber trade to the north end would be most injurious to the
south end, and most disastrous to the interests of the Dock
Estate. That was not all the question ;as ratepayers they must
know that the absence of their productive trade would over-
whelm them with a mass of pauperism, and increase of rates,
which they could never support. (Cheers.) If Mr. Fisher
could show how this deficiency could be supplied and this evil
averted, then their objection to his return would be removed.
Mr. Fisher having arrived at the conclusion that the south end
of the town was not fit for the development of the timber trade,
conscientiously no doubt, they had determined to oppose his
re-election, and he for one would support the return of Mr.
Stewart, whose opinion on all these matters was so highly ap-
preciated by all. (Cheers.). _ _ _ _ .

The CHAiRMAN having decided that the meeting must first
determine on the point on which they had been convened, be-
fore going into any other subject,—
Mr. FISHER replied to the remarks of Mr. Nichol, and sup-
ported the arguments he had urged in the Dock Committee, and
which had just been read to the n.eeting. As he dared not pecu-
late himself, he would not sanction a scheme that would tend
to the interests of any private friend or friends. He had a
respect for—he sympathised with the poor. He knew the
difficulty of collecting rates—aye, even from the widow who
rather requited relief than the exaction of rates—(loud cheering)
—and he would leave it to others to accommodate their friends
at the expense of the public, and the poor, if they dared to do
it. (Applause.) He knew that Mr. John Stewart would not
do it, if others did; but he knew, also, that Mr. John Stewart
had voted for the northern scheme. (Hear, hear, and
cheering.) They must give every facility for all parties—they
must allow not only the timber trade, but every other trade,
to select its own locality ; it was their interest to do so, and
rather than curtail or abridge the accommodation, he would
carry the docks on to Garston, and even to Southport if neces-
sary. (Hear.)

Mr. LORD denied that the disadvantages that had been men•
tioned as having arisen from the want of docks and quay room
were borne out by the returns of this, as compared with the
last year's returns of business.

Mi. MILLER had himself felt the inconvenience alluded to,
and then proposed that Mr. Fisher, from the explanation he
had given, and his services as a member of the Dock Commit-
tee and Town Council, was the most fit and proper person to
represent this ward in the next Council. (Cheers.)
Mr. DUNCAN GIBB seconded the motion.

Mr. HARRISON, as a burgess of the ward, was not satisfied
with Mr. Fisher's opinions. He had told them privately that he
would go further with them than he had done publicly. The
burgesses would not send any man unless he were prepared
to advocate the interests of the south end. (Cheers.) If Mr.
Fisher would vote for the carrying out of the great dock, for
which they had the act of parliament, in its fullest sense, at the
south end, they would support him ; and, if so, there would be
no need of a contest.

Mr. FISHER said he answered with pleasure, he would ; and
would go farther than that and carry it on beyond the
south end, even as far as Garston, if proper means were taken
to accommodate the extensive and increasing trade by the
making of a complete dock, with all the necessary appurte-
nances. In reply to another question by Mr. Bland, Mr. Fisher
said he would exclude no trade ; he would advocate the extension
of the accommodation for the timber trade at the south till
the trade was cvertlowing, and then he would be very happy
it should go to the north. [This was not deemed a very satis-
factory answer, and, after some very petty quibbling, as to
words, and their meaning, which seemed to amuse most of the
auditory, the inquiry dropped.]
Mr. RANKIN paid a high compliment to the services of Mr.
Fisher as a member of the Council and Dock Committee, and
expressed his conviction that the burgesses could not return a
gentleman better qualified to discharge the duties of their
representative than Mr. Fisher. _ _ _

Mr. BETTELEv, after some declamatory remarks, asked the
audience if they were prepared to leave their business here ?
A Voice : Yes, if we can find a better. (Loud laughter.)—Mr.
Betteley : Go to the north end then. (Laughter.) He said Mr.
Fisher did not represent their interests, and therefore they
ought to look out for some one else who would. (Hear, hear,
and slight cheering.)

Mr. WILSON was then about proposing an amendment—in
oppposition, as we understood—to Mr. Fisher, when
Mr. HARRISON rose to order, remarking that the meeting
was called for a special purpose, and they had no right to go
into any other matter.
The CHAIRMAN said he had been allowed to go on so far, and
he thought the last terms in the placard calling the meeting
allowed the moving of an amendment. _

Mr. M'NicHol: then sgid :—They could not, as electors
of the south end, consistently return Mr. Fisher as their
member. He, therefore, proposed, in his stead, Mr. John
Stewart, who although at first favourable to the northern
scheme, had changed his opinion, and his prejudices and pre-
dilections were decidedly in favour of the south-end. (Cheers.)
Mr. Stewart would advocate the extension of the docks from the
south end up to Dempsey's hollow. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BATTEN seconded the amendment, on the ground that
Mr. Fisher thought the interests of the Dock Estate superior
to the interests of the ratepayers of the Ward. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. HARRISON mentioned that the mover and seconder of
Mr. Stewart were neither of them voters in North Toxteth
Ward. (Laughter.) He respected Mr. John Stewart, and
should not like to see him made a fool of, and if they could get
two electors to move and second the amendment, it would be
regular and not otherwise. (Hear, hear.)
Mr.LORD, as an elector, then moved Mr. John Stewart as a
fit and proper person, and the motion was seconded by Mr.
Gladstone.

After some further proloneed and conversational remark

The CHAIRMAN suggested that as neither motion was suili-
ciently matured, they had better adjourn the discussion to a
future day.

This course was not agreeable to the meeting, and several
personalities, and some very desultory conversation having in-
tervened, a vote was ultimately taken, and a motion for an ad-
journment was first negatived.
The amendment in favour of Mr. Stewart was carried, the
original motion in favour of Mr. Fisher being subsequently
rejected.
The thanks of the meeting were voted to the chairman, and
the proceedings terminated at half-past ten o'clock, when the
assembly quietly separated.