The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1851-11-18 00:00:00

have to say

The order w

s then given, by the chancellor's decision,
that any witnesses who were to be examined for Mr.
Ramshay should leave the court.
Mr. Sergeant WILKINS commenced the defence on the
part of Mr. Ramshay. After some prefatory remarks,
he contended that the persons who got up the memorial
were engaged in a conspiracy against Mr. Ramshay, and
that Mr. Whitty and the persons who were engaged with
him were the persons who ought to be punished. He did
not wish to restrict the press ; but the press of Liverpool
had, in this instance, degenerated into license and tyranny.
He stood there to oppose the tyranny which had nearly
destroyed Mr. Ramshay. The memorial was a mass of
hypocrisy and falsehood. The case against Hai had
already tumbled to pieces. He would show that Mr.
Ramshay had been maligned and misrepresented, and
that in all he had done he had only acted within the law.
He contended that a warrant for the apprehension of Mr.
Whitty was not necessary, and that the object of Mr.
Whitty was to drive Mr. Ramshay from the town, be-
cause he had been appointed by the Earl of Carliele,
contrary to the views of the Guardian Society. The
object of the placard, which had bee❑ called an innocent
one, was to bring Mr. Ramshay into hatred and con-
tempt. He then eondemned the observations of Sir
George Stephen, and argued that the conduct of Mr.
Ramshay bad been in every respect proper and dignified,
and that he had acted with perfect legality, and that the
memorialists had long been endeavouring to crush Mr.
Ramshay, and this at a time when he was suffering under
intense bodily pain. Mr. Whitty had chuckled over his
pain, and had derided his sufferings. The memorial
boasted that it expressed the opinion of the people of
Liverpool; but it was only signed by 2,000 persons,
although the population of the town and suburbs
amounted to 400,000, and all that the Guardian Society
could raise to support this proceeding was the paltry sum
of £3OO. He (the learned sergeant) would say that Mr.
Ramshay was an amiable and honest man, and he was an
equally sound lawyer. The learned sergeant then com-
mented upon the evidence which had been adduced.
With reference to the observation about the fist, Mr.
Ramshay's object was only explanatory. Mr. Ramshay,
80 far from oppressing the poor, had an utter disregard to
persons. The case about the tailor and the baker had
been very unfairly put. No doubt that Brown, the
tailor, had committed a contempt of court; but Mr.
Caldwell, the baker, behaved very differently—he apolo-
gised to Mr. Ramshay, and was thereford not punished
so severely. The outcry raised was an ad captandum sen-
timent, and would lead to rebellion, bloodshed, and a
resistance of the law. Mr. Ramshay did not consult the
rank in life of the two persons, but had treated them
differently because they had acted differently. Although
tle-v had hunted mobs to his house to threaten his life,
Mr. Ramshay was so esteemed that there was a great in-
crease in the business of his court. He had decided up-
wards of 2,000 cases since the last investigation, and there
were now 300 cases waiting for decision. It had been said
in one case that the jury had been coerced. He should
call the foreman of that jury, who would tell them that
they had only made up their minds from the evidence and
the merits of the case. If the judge had a strong view of
the case, it was his duty to step in between the two
attorneys, who were dividing the oyster to the disad-
vantage of the clients. Not only should he show
that the business had increased, but the character of the
business had improved. The real reason of the complaint
was, that the town could not get the appointment of the
judge. They wanted to rot) the judge of his privilege of
appointment. They, in fact, wanted a judge who would
constantly " have the fear of his maker before his eyes."
The learned sergeant next commented upon the case as
presented by Mr. Monk, and said he should prove that
Mr. Ramshay did possess those very qualities which Mr.
Monk described as so essential to a judge. Mr. Ramshay,
however, was day by day assailed with rancour and perso-
nality. The business of Mr. Whitty, for eighteen months,
was to assail Mr. Ramshay with obloquy, and to bring
him into contempt with the town. Mr. Ramshay, how-
ever, had never injured Mr. Whitty with a look. There
was not a stronger proof of the absence of charity in our
nature than the avidity for slander. Mr. Whitty's paper
went into circles where the law was not likely to be
respected, and it was calculated to mislead public opinion
in regard to Mr. Ramshay. He (the Sergeant) was a sen-
sitive man, and if he had to choose between such news-
paper attacks and open violence, he would rather say kill
me at once, for such venomous attacks would drive him
mad. The learned sergeant next argued that the offence
was a common law offence ; but if only a statutable
offence, and if the means and mode of punishing it were
pointed out, and the judge had adopted them, why should
he be exposed to censure ? He knew not what Mr.
Whitty's pedigree was, but he (Mr. Wilkins) observed
that in every town where he went, the loud-talking repub-
licans were always the first to disparage those who were
not nobly born. It reminded him of the Irishman who
said that pedigree was like the potato. The best part of
it was under ground. (A. laugh.) When they came to
quote cases, he should prove that the law mooted on the
other side was not tenable. Mr. Ramshay had not seen
Mr. Whitty's paper at the time of the placard, but he
knew that he had not given any opinion of the people of
Liverpool, and he therefore knew that it must contain
some misrepresentation. Again pursuing his commentary
upon the evidence, Mr. Sergeant Wilkins argued that it
had by no means supported the case of the memorialists.
—The court was here adjourned for a short time. On

resuming—

Mr. Sergeant WrLKINs proceeded. He again adverted
to the speech of Mr. Monk, and said he trusted his lord-
ship would excuse him when he said that from the im-
portance of the case, he should be compelled to trespass
for a very long time. Indeed his observations would ex-
tend over a great part of the following day (Wednesday).
He should presently read various opinions as to the duties
of a judge, and when he had done so, he believed it would
be felt that if there were any madness it was on the part
of those who joined in these accusations. While Mr.
Ramshay bad been made the object of attack and calumny,
he had been quietly pursuing his studies up'n the nature,
character, and extent of his powers and his duties. On
the other hand, the object of Mr. Whitty was to court
notoriety and sell his newspaper. How the people
stared when they knew that Mr. Michael James Whitty
was going to Lancaster Castle. The arrest of Mr.
Whitty was a famous catch-line for a newspaper. In his
(the learned sergeant's) opinion it was a great pity that
the act of parliament had not given the judge more exten-
sive powers to protect himself. He remarked upon the
fleeting nature of popularity. Pompey, admired to-day,
was killed on the morrow, and the same voice which
called " Hosannah to the Highest" one day, to-morrow
called out " Crucify him, crucify him." Nothing was so
destructive to the vitality of our law as this attempt to put
down a judge and to coerce his lordship to give up his
privilege of appointment. Where were the accusers,
where Mr. Evans, and Mr. Reay ? Mr. Jeffery it was
true was there ; he could not stay at home. He came to
Preston and sat day after day, leaving his shop for the
benefit of his country, for he thought himself a patriot,
and bad a soul above muslin. Immortal Mr. Jeffery ; he
should say hereafter much more about his evidence.
Mr. Jeffery here rose and appealed to his lordship, whe-
ther there was anything in his evidence to justify such a
course of observation.

Mr. Sergeant WILKINS.—I think I shall satisfy the
court that there was.

The Earl of CARLISLE said he was not at liberty to in-
terfere with the learned counsel.
Mr. Sergeant WILKINS.—I have always found that
those peoplewho are the first to attack others, are the first
to wince when they are themselves made the object of
censure. The learned sergeant, in continuation, ad-
verted to the remark that Mr. Ramshay sometimes ground
his teeth. The explanation was this. He had had an
illness, and having lost some of his teeth, was compelled
to keep his mouth shut sometimes while speaking, lest the
spring of the teeth should give way. He admitted there
was a peculiarity in Mr. Ramshay's manner, for only
three nights ago, while Mr. Ramshay was speaking to
him, if he had not known him, he should have thought he
was in a passion, although he was speaking on a pleasing
subject, and was by no means angry. This case had been
very much distorted upon many points, to which he should
hereafter advert. The learned sergeant now came to
what he considered was the law of the case, and read some
authorities in reference to the law as regarded contempt.
(These authorities were rather voluminous. One
of them went to shew that Mr. Monk was not cor-
rect in assuming that contempt could only be com-
mitted in the presence of the judge. In the case
of the trial of Thistlewood and Ings for high trea-
treason, proceedings had been instituted against William
Innel Clement, the proprietor of the Observer, for pub-
lishing the proceedings contrary to the prohibition of the
court. The courts in other cases held that contempt
might be committed out of court.) When the reading of
these authorities (which occupied a considerable time)
was concluded, the learned sergeant proceeded to say
interposed, that
Mr. Whitty had begun as a libeller, continued as a libel-
ler, and, at the time Mr. Ramshay that hap.
pened to be the large part of the libel which Mr. Whitty
was publishing. He (Mr. Wilkins) contended that de-
-,titration was not requisite, but if Mr. Ramshay saw
-.tiafy A reasoning man to call upon Mr.
Sway Ais conduct, be was justified
..iram9R him before bun?

:no
enough to ___
Whitty to explain -
in sending his officer to

Mr. Ramshay's order was to bring the party into
court, and until he made out the warrant for com-
mitment, all that was necessary was a request from
the judge. Having characterised the arraignment
of Mr. Ramshay, as the arraignment of Lord Car-
lisle, the learned council accused the memorialists of being
determined to rise above the constitution ; determined to
exercise, if they could, those powers which did not belong
to them ; and all men of reason and sense consider, for the

very reason which they urged, that those other persons
ought not to be appointed. The learned sergeant warmly
commended the appointment, by Lord Carlisle, of Mr.
Ramshav, whom he characterised as a man unshackled by
local sympathies or prejudices. All that Arr. Whitty was
called upon to appear and prove was, whether he was
guilty or innocent; and that was all that Mr. Ramshay
asked. He called upon Mr Whitty to come, and he
answered with a knife. The Judge was the only person
who had the power of deciding whether the conduct of any

one amounted to a contempt or not ; the judge was the
only one who had the power of fine or imprisonment,—yet
this had been said to be unconstitutional ; it had been
urged against Mr. Ramshay by a flourish of the pen that
he was both judge, witness, and accuser in his own case.
The person of the judge was under protection, and why
not his character also. He contended that the words on
the placard issued by Mr Whitty were derogatory and in-
sulting to Mr. Ramshay, because he had given " no
opinion," whatever " of the people of Liverpool," but
merely in the discharge of his duties had commented upon
an awful display of perjury which had occurred before him
that week, and he had felt called upon to express his hor-
ror at the amount. When this had been construed into
his opinion of the town itself, he had a right to treat that
as a contempt and insult to himself. In addition to this,
the newspapers were week after week branding Mr. Ram-
shay's name about, and that was a contempt which should
not be tolerated by any man who had a jealous care of the
purity and dignity of his court. No rational man could
come to any other conclusion than that the words con-
tainer', in the placard were an insult to the judge, and
therefore Mr. Ramshay was not only justified but bound
to send for Mr. Whitty, not to punish him, but require
him to explain prima facie his intention to insult. The
question for his lordship to decide was, whether there was
reasonable evidence to justifv him in the belief that Mr.
Ramshay had acted bona' fide, having been insulted by
that man ? If the contempt was made out, then the
punishment was by no means adequate to the offence.
If Mr. Whitty had attended like Mr. Caldwell, and apo-
logised, he did not know Mr. Ramshay if the matter would
not have ended there, by his discharge.
The Court, a little after five o'clock, adjourned to a
quarter-past ten on the following morning.
WEDNESDAY.

At a quarter past ten o'clock the Earl of Carlisle took
his seat, upon the bench. The court was as crowded as on
the previous day, the gallery being entirely occupied by
ladies.

Sergeant WILKINS resumed his address, and after again
calling his lordship's attention to the case of the King
and Clement. Price, p. 85, where the reason for not em-
ploying formal process was fully explained, he (Mr.
Sergeant Wilkins) submitted that unless his lordship was
prepared to adopt the most absurd views of the witnesses,
and to believe that Mr. Ramshay was a monomaniac, that
his mental faculties had become impaired, or that there
was some apprehension he might become so morally unfit
for his office as to anticipate some dishonesty on his part ;
unless this were the case, there was not, he submitted,
the shadow of a shade of ground to say that there was any
inability, mental or bodily, on the part of Mr. Ramshay.
He would also submit, with regard to the word misbe-
haviour, that it meant some flagrant and daring miscon-
duct ; and it would be for his lordship to say, when the
whole conduct of Mr. Ramshay had been laid before him,
whether it was such as this. He (the learned sergeant)
was of opinion, that Mr. Ramshay's main fault had been
in forbearing too long, and by that forbearance inducing
these persons to suppose that they could insult him, as a
judge in his court, while discharging his duties in the best
possible manner for the public interest. The learned
sergeant, then, at considerable length, directed attention
to the evidence adduced on the other side; begging his
lordship to remember that, except in reference to Mr.
Whitty, they had not been able to impugn Mr. Ram-
shay's conduct in one single instance, and that, with two
exceptions, not a single witness called before his lordship
ever saw or knew Mr. Ramshay before the Whitty trial.
The learned sergeant then called attention to the speech
of Mr. Ramshay, on the occasion of his presenting to him
(Mr. Wilkins) a mark of esteem, for his exertions on Mr.
Ramshay's former trial, and also to an article which first
appeared in the Liverpool Journal of the 4th of October.
After going through the article in detail; and commenting
upon it at length and with great severity, the learned
sergeant proceeded to say, " I read that speech, first of
all, to show what the object of that man was. I defy his
council and his best friends to justify that object; 1 defy
them to find in that address of Mr. Whitty to the people
of Liverpool one single sentence that is not condemnatory
of him and his motives. It originated in hatred of his
lordship (Carlisle). To carry out that hatred he attacked
Mr. Ramshay, the effect of which was to bring him into
contempt in the eyes of those who read the articles, and
who were, consequently, bound to believe them." The
learned sergeant then proceeded to compare, in some
points, the shorthand writer's notes of the County Court
proceedings (which had been furnished to him by the
other side) with the statements of some of the witnesses.
Mr. Gladstone stated that the judge, in examining a
witness, put words in his mouth ; Mr. Jeffery, that
the judge, in answer to a question of Sir George Stephen,
put words into the mouth of the witness. Both these
versions were uttered without foundation. Comment-
ing still further upon the notes of the proceedings, the
learned sergeant asked if he had satisfied his lord-
ship that Mr. Ramshay had acted legally up to this
particular point, what greater outrage upon the
sanctity of the law could there be than that of which
Mr. Whitty had been guilty ? Alluding to the fine
of ss. imposed upon Madden, the learned sergeant said
he would prove that the man was under sentence of im-
prisonment ; not for contempt of court, but under a debt
warrant; that he attempted to escape, and interrupting
in so doing the proceedings of the court, he was treated in
the way described by the witness. It was palpable that
on the day in question, persons were coming in and out
of the court during the whole time, for the purpose
of insulting Mr. Ramshay : this he should prove by dis-
interested witnesses. There was no hardship in the case
of John Jones, and his being committed to Lancaster,
which the other side had urged so strongly. If a man
were to escape fining and imprisonment by saying he was
poor, we should have offences committed with impunity.
As to the committal to Lancaster his lordship was no
doubt very well aware that Mr. Ramshay had made every
effort to obtain Kirkdale as a place of committal from the
County Court but unavailingly, and he had no power
to commit but to Lancaster. With respect to the
demeanour of Mr. Ramshay, Mr. Gladstone had described
him as bursting with passion; Dr. M'lntyre described
his expression of face as unnatural; Mr. Gladstone had
said that his eyes were red—flaming with fire ; and Mr.
Jeffery and the other parties described him in the same
way. He (the learned sergeant) asked for words and ac-
tions to justify these inferences. Was Mr. Ramshay's the
language of a man who had no control over his judgment ?
Did not, in fact, the examination show that Mr. Ramshay
had all his faculties about him, and was conducting the
inquiry as a reasonable man ? Did Sir George Stephen
complain ? No ; the only imputation cast by him was,
that the judge was very much excited and that his manner
was not calm and dignified. The learned sergeant, after
commenting upon Sir George Stephen's defence of Mr.
Whitty, before Mr. Ramshay, proceeded to contend that
Mr. Ramshay was the person who had to decide whether
the placard issued by Mr. Whitty amounted to an insult
or not. The question his lordship had to argue was,
whether Mr. Ramshay acted bond fide ? did he, when he
sent for Michael James Whitty to explain to him the con-
duct of which be had been guilty, did he believe that Mr.
Whittv had insulted him ? and if he did, he (Mr. Ser-
geant Wilkins) submitted that no power upon earth could
remove Mr. Ramshay on that ground. True, the words
in the bill were not libelling and insulting per se, but
taken in connection with what had gone before, they were
undoubtedly so. According to the act of parliament, a
judge was protected in going to and from the court. If
it was an insult to the judge, the judge beyond all question
had a power to act in the way in which Mr. Ramshay
had done. He referred to several law cases in support of
his view.
A short adjournment here took place, and at its close
Mr. Sergeant WILKINS resumed his address.—That
Mr. Ramshay had made enemies, there could be no ques-
tion—amongst the dishonest and fraudulent men whose
views he had thwarted. What, was the main opposition
to him as far as the Guardian Society had been con-
cerned ? That he insisted, in all cases, upon having legal
proof of a claim before he admitted it. There could be
no doubt in the world that Mr. Ramshay succeeded one
who had been too lenient in enforcing the laws of evidence,
and that he must have disappointed the expectations of
many, and created thus many enemies. The learned ser-

Meant then commented at great length on the speech of
Sir George Stephen, and strongly animadverted on the
license of the press. He then proceeded to contend that
the judge of the county court was insulted by the posting
of the placard, according to the words of the clause in the
act of parliament, " whilst going to and from the court,"
and that Mr. Ramshay was perfectly justified in describing
Mr. Whitty's case as one of great enormity, and that the
punishment awarded him was by no means inadequate to
the offence. Coercion, he said, would serve with mean

trial of Mr. Whitty, in the county court, was then read,
and Mr. Sergeant Wilkins proceeded to comment upon it
at very great length, taking the evidence of each witness
separately. After thus commenting for a considerable
time, the learned sergeant asked his lordship (as he said
from sheer exhaustion) to allow him to conclude his re-
marks on the following morning.
This was agreed to, and the court then adjourned.
THURSDAY.

The Earl of Carlisle took his seat on Thursday morning
at ten o'clock, and immediately after Mr. Sergeant Wil-
kins resumed his address. The court was not as well
attended as on tha previous days. After continuing his
comments upon the evidence respecting what passed when
Mr. `Witty was brought before Mr. Ramshay, in the
County (;ourt, Mr. Wilkins proceeded to say, that he
had now called attention to the evidence of every wit-
ness, with the exception of Mr. Lowndes, and there was
not a single witness who saw any part of Mr. Ramshav's

conduct on any other occasion: 'They saw him on that
day—a day of all others most calculated to irritate, and
provoke, and excite. They seemed to be parties having
no business in the court, but what they chose to term
curiosity ; and a great many of them were the avowed
friends and admirers of Mr. Whitty, and those who were
not his friends suddenly became so. There was not
one of them who had the slightest knowledge of Mr.
Ramshay's ordinary mode of conducting his business;
yet they dared to come and endeavour to dismiss him
from his office for manifesting feelings which only gave
proof that lie belonged to our common species—that he
had feelings, and that they were lacerated until he could
hear no longer. He thought this was a most important
fact, that not one of the witnesses was able to give any
evidence as to the ordinary mode of transacting the busi-
ness of the court. This concluded the observations he
had to make so far as the case of the Whittys was con-
cerned. He now came to the charges of misconduct
against Mr. Ramshay as a judge. As to the witness
John Jones, he should be able to prove that first and all
Mr. Ramshay had several times during the course of that
day complained of parties coming into court with their
hats on, and had given notice that he should visit the
offence as it ought to be visited ; and that this man, as
well as others, was distinctly told what would be the effect
of this. He would prove also that as soon as he was
placed in the court, he put his hat on his head with an air
of defiance, and that he went out of the court in a man-
ner which he (Sergeant Wilkins) could not describe, but
which left no doubt on the minds of those who saw it
that it was his intention to insult the judge, and that his
manner was most insolent. The next witness was Mr.
Wareing, licensed victualler; but he would call Mr.
Clough, the solicitor on the other side, and he would be
able to show that this was an infamous attempt to de:

fraud the landlord. The learned sergeant proceeded
to comment on the case brought forward by Mr.
Evans, in which Mr. Ramshay, after a jury had given
a verdict for the plaintiff, requested them to find for the

defendant, and intimated that be would grant a new
trial, and try the case over and over again. It was said
the jury were coerced, but he would call the foreman
of the jury and the plaintiff's agent, and the foreman
would tell them how far they were coerced, and
would tell them what he thought of the prima fade case
set up by Mr. Evans. The learned sergeant here reca-
pitulated the circumstances of Mr. Whitty's being sent
for by the judge, and his subsequent trial and committal.
Mr. Ramshay had only acted as he had a right to do, and
if Mr. Whitty had attended in the first instance to the
request made by the judge, all difficulty would have been
avoided. Magistrates frequently sent for witnesses and
others, but they did not consider it necessary to issue
warrants, except under very peculiar circumstances. He
did not inquire whether Mr. Whitty did really insult Mr.
Ramshay or not ; if the circumstances were such as to
justify Mr. Ramshay in the belief that he bad insulted
him on his way to the court, he was the sole judge ; he
sent for Mr. Whitty, who refused to obey, threatened
murder, and effected his escape. Then followed the
scene at court, and all men who love the law and wish to
follow the obedience of that law, must regret that the
pages of our history should be sullied by such a scene.
After such a scene, it was no wonder that Mr. Ramsbay
exhibited some excitement, and that he made use of the
words in reference to Mr. Whitty when he passed sen-
tence. And if Mr. Ramshay did make use of the expres-
sions attributed to him on the occasion alluded to, cir-
cumstances and judicial dignity justified them. He saw
before him an enemy whom he sought to make a friend—
a foe whom he sought to reconcile—a man who made the
most sacred feelings of his heart a subject of ribaldry and
jest—who assailed and maligned his benefactor—and if
(said the learned sergeant) there be a man on the face of
the world whom that man loves it is —(here the learned
sergeant, casting a glance at Mr. Ramshay, sat down,
buried his face in his hands, and shed tears. Mr. Ram-
shay also placed his head on the table, and seemed deeply
affected.) Mr. Sergeant Wilkins then resumed. After
observing that allowance ought to be made for an
ebullition of infirmity, he proceeded to state what
the case of the defendant would be. He would first
call before his lordship fourteen or fifteen gentlemen
who had practised in Mr. Ramshay's court as advocates.
They would all say that not only was Mr. Ramshay free
from blame, but he was a most exemplary judge. His
manner had always been courteous and kind to every
one in the court. He would call thirteen suitors to bear
these gentlemen out in their statements. He would call
nine agents, engaged in practising in the court. He would
also call the treasurers and secretaries of four loan socie-
ties, and persons who had gone to that court to decide
for themselves ; having heard the calumnies and misre-
presentations which had been put forward against the
judge. They went for the sole purpose of ascertaining
what Mr. Ramshay's conduct was ; they would tell his
lordship that his conduct had been on all occasions most
correct and proper. He a ould call parties connected with
the immediate cases on which the question rested, and
who would satisfy his lordship that his conduct could not
be otherwise than proper and courteous. These persons
had no object to serve. He would call Mr. J. Stewart, who
would say that on one occasion he attended, and the pa-
tience of the judge was particularly observable. The wit-
ness was so satisfied of this, that his exclamation was,
" That an angel from heaven would not please these men."
If all this were proved, what would become of the charges
on the other side ? After some further remarks, the
learned counsel concluded by saying, " I have only endea-
voured, throughout the whole of the case, to deal with
facts as they presented themselves. I think I have rea-
soned fairly on those facts, and if, in the course of my
duty, I have been compelled from the stress of circum-
stances to give pain to others, I bitterly—l deeply de-
plore it ; if I lose their friendship I shall lament it through
life,—l shall lament that I was placed in a position by
them in which I was compelled to inflict pain. But I shall
have the all-sustaining reflection, that in the discharge of
my duty to one whom in my soul I believe to be a cruelly
persecuted man, I have done no more than justice. A few
words, and I sit down. This is a case of the utmost pos-
sible importance to the kingdom at large in which we live.
Although he merely be the judge of a county court, yet I
regard this inquiry as one of greater importance than one
attended with more pomp and circumstance,—l mean the
impeachment of Warren Hastings. If we test it by its
consequences—if we are to regard it by its extent and in-
fluence throughout the length and breadth of the land, a
more important inquiry could not come before any judge.
The judge of every county court in the land is looking
with breathless expectation and anxiety to the result of this
inquiry. They are asking, is their authority to be set at
nought ; whether the majesty of the law is to be trampled
under foot; whether these courts are tobe strangled in their
infancy by physical force, and brute power, and prejudice,
and clamour; and whether the wisdom propounded in the
judgment I read yesterday—whether it is to be venerated
and respected, and whether the temples of justice are to be
kept sacred and unpolluted. My lord, concession to faction
is a bribe to treason and rebellion. And when Charles
signed the death-warrant of Strafford, he justified the
tragedy which succeeded in Whitehall. Yield not, my
lord, to those men, unless their claim be just ;—yield not
to men, though they come in myriads and their name be
legion, though their powers may be formidable, though
their clamour may seek to drown the " still small voice of
reason." I implore, I entreat your lordship, in the name
of the God we worship, whose law is order, whose law fur-
nishes the principles upon which the laws of this land are
based, I entreat you in the name of heaven, in the name of
earth, in the name of her whom we love and venerate as
the Queen of our country ; in the name of all that is right,
and righteous, and true, I entreat your lordship, for the
sake of those who shall succeed and survive us, for the
sake of posterity, for the sake of the permanence of our
liberties, our rights, and all that we boast of, I implore, I
entreat that you yield not to clamour and faction, that
which justice, reason, and truth require that your lordship
should for ever maintain." (The learned sergeant then
resumed his seat amidst applause.)
A manifesto of the Guardian Society, on the decision
given by the Earl of Carlisle after the first inquiry, was
read, as were also several articles from the Journal and
the Chronicle, commenting on the conduct of Mr. Ram-
shay.

Witnesses for the defence were then called, the first of
whom was
Mr. John Stewart, architect, of Liverpool, and a mem-
ber of the town council. He was in the County Court
during the hearing of the case Swallow v. Waring, a few
days before Mr. Whitty's trial. He heard the judge give
a strong opinion against calling witnesses for the defence.
as unnecessary, but he did not prevent witnesses being
called. The conduct of the judge seemed to him proper,
and very courteous.

minds, when forbearance would not ; and he would show, Mr. W. Hoskins, estate agent of Liverpool, heard a
by some of the merchants in the town of Liverpool, by number of cases tried before Mr. Ramshay during two
respectable tradesmen, by solicitors, by suitors, and by days in September. The demeanor of the judge was atten-
jurors, that Mr. Ramshay's court was a model court ; and tive, calm, and impartial. He remembered the case of
if the tradesmen of Liverpool looked to their own inter- Broster v. Mercer, in which he was a witness. In that
ests, they would scout the feelings of Mr. Whitty and the case the judge attended to all the points fully, and did
Guardian Society, and encourage Mr. Ramshay in his notexerciseanythinglikecoercion on the minds of the jury.
office. He would prove beyond demonstration that Mr. Mr. Lawrence Green, a solicitor, frequently practising
Ramshay's was a model court, and that Mr. Ramshay in the County Court, gave similar testimony to the general
was pre-eminently qualified to be the judge of a county deportment and manner of the judge. If anything, he
court. Since he had been in the town of Liverpool there was too patient ; it sometimes amounted to tedium. His
had been placards, squibs, pasquinades, and lampoons on decisions were sound and legal, in the opinion of witness.
Mr. Ramshay, posted continually on the walls of the Mr. Maurice, managing clerk to Mr. Holden, solicitor,
town ; and he regretted to say that, amongst the contri- of Liverpool, had had frequent opportunities of observing
butors of this trash, there were to be found members of Mr. Ramshay's manner on the bench, and thought it
the bar. He should produce evidence to satisfy his lord- uniformly calm, courteous, and dignified.
ship—evidence of merchants (some of them the first in Mr. John Jones, attorney, never saw any want of tern-
Liverpool) ; evidence of solicitors practising in the county per, but a little displeasure occasionally, when the wit-
court ; evidence of jurors who had sat in that court; evi- nesses prevaricated. The judne always paid the greatest
dence of suitors—be would undertake to satisfy his lord- attention to the case ; nine men out of ten would not take
ship, and satisfy all but Mr. Whitty and the members of the same pains.
the Guardian Society, that if the tradesmen of Liverpool Mr. John Gore Dewhurst, also a Liverpool solicitor,
sought to promote their own interest, they would encou- considered Mr. Ramshay to be patient, extremely pains-
rage the man who bad made his court well conducted. taking, and of great ability as a lawyer, Never saw any-
The. decorum lately manifest in tkat court would speak for thing in his conduct but what was consistent with that of
itself ; and there could not be found a single honest suitor a judge.
to complain of the conduct of the man who presided there. Mr. John Greatley, solicitor, spoke of Mr. Ramshay's
—The evidence of the witnesses examined respecting the general deportment in equally high terms.

Mr. John Yates, senior, the oldest solicitor hi Liver-
pool, had practised in all the courts of the kingdom, and
in the Liverpool County Court. From what he had seen
of Mr. Ramshay, he thought that he bad conducted him-
self with great propriety, and never saw him out of temper.
Mr. Charles Frederic Parsons, also a solicitor of many
years standing, gave similar evidence, •
Mr. Charles Hughes, solicitor, had had opportunities
of observing Mr. Ramshay's conduct, and thought him
patient, affable, and kind, particularly to the poorer
suitors. Was present when Mr. Whitty was before the
court. The expression of Mr. Whitty's countenance
seemed to be that of a man rather unrelenting. He ap.
peered to be setting the judge at defiance. Mr. Ran-shay
was merely in earnest, and conducted himself in a proper
manner; he was doing no more than keeping his dignity

fled. The mode in which business has been conducted
ever since Mr. Ramshay's appointment has been con-
siderably improved. The business during Mr. Ramshay's
time has increased materially for the last three months,
both in the number of the cases and in the quality of the
business. I produce a return of the number of causes be-
fore Mr. Ramshay, copied from the books of the court.
[We understand that the return referred to was sub-
sequently handed in, and was as follows :—Number of
causes entered for hearing in the Liverpool County Court,
from the Ist day of January to the 31st day of October.
1851 :—January,numberof causes entered,6ol; February,
March, and April, 2205, of which 397 were above £5 ;
May, June, and July, number of causes entered, 2303,
of which 444 were above £5 ; August, September, and
October, 2360, of which 495 were above £s.]
Mr. Stone's examination continued :—I have seen pla-
cards on the walls in Liverpool, and in the Liverpool pa-
pers, with regard to Mr. Ramshoy and his court. I was
present in court on Saturday, September 27th, Monday,
the 29th, and, I think, Wednesday, the Ist of October,
during the trials of the Whittys. I was there the greater
part of those days. On the Monday I was there nearly
the whole of the day. I was there but for a very short
time on the Saturday. Mr. Ramshay's demeanour and
manner on the Monday was that of a dignified judge, of a
judge determined to keep order in his court, and to make
it respectable • and, I think, had he acted in any other
manner than he did on the Monday, it would have been
undignified to the office he holds and not respectable to
the court. I was present, too, at the burst of applause by
the audience after Sir G. Stephen's remark. It was one
general burst of applause and hurrah. It was a scene I
had never before seen in courts of justice during my expe-
rience of nearly twenty years. It was a very discreditable
scene, and, in my opinion, the observations that produced
that cheering were more discreditable. I was sitting by
Mr. Ramshay whilst it was going on. I saw and noticed

as a judge.
Mr. Edward Wilford, an attorney, who had attended the
County Court, was in the court during Slater's case, when
Mr. Simon was apprehended. Mr. Simon's conduct was
exceedingly uncourteous, but the judge took it with his
usual dignity and courtesy of manner. He was also kind
to the suitors, particularly to the poor. Mr. Ramshay
was one of the best judges that ever sat in the County
Court. His conduct was never despotic. He never de-
livered an opinion as to the people of Liverpool.
Mr. John Walden and Mr. John Davies, both solicitors,
spoke in similar terms oc Mr. Ramshay's legal acquire-
ments and high judicial qaulities.
Rev. George Aspinall, a clergyman of the established
church in Liverpool, said : I have attended the County
Court, and witnessal the calmness, dignity, and temper
of the judge. His decisions seemed to me to be based on
perfect justice and fairness.
Mr. Wm. Beattie and Mr. John Forbes deposed sepa-
rately that they had attended with an impression that the
judge must be an extraordinary man, and, after hearing
the cases, were convinced that serious injury was done
him in the public estimation. His conduct was calm,
temperate, and judgelike.
The court then adjourned at a quarter to six.
FRIDAY.

the whole deineanour of Mr. Ramshay, but I don't know
that I noticed his countenance. I was present when sen-
tence was passed on Mr. Whitty. Mr. Ramshay com-
menced the passing of the sentence, and, after he had pro-
ceeded for perhaps a few minutes, I found there was an
extra degree of earnestness in his voice. I did not see his
face at the time; I was looking before me. Mr. Whitty
was on my left hand, within two yards from me. I turned
to Mr. Whitty, and then I found what, in my opinion,
must have caused the extra degree of earnestness I have
described; and that was a look of scorn and defiance on
the brow of Mr. Whitty,—in the appearance altogether of
Mr. Whitty, there was a scornful smile of defiance.
That continued as long as I looked, which was only for
two or three minutes. I know that Mr. Ramshay has ra-

The proceedings commenced this morning at ten o'clock.
The first witness was Mr. Wm. Wheeler, a solicitor,
who gave his opinion that Mr. Ramshay acted fairly to
suitors, especially to the poor, and that he was a sound
and able lawyer.—On cross-examination, the witness said
he did not practise in the court during February, March,
and April last, as he was in gaol. He was remanded for
not paying a debt. When the judge sentenced Mr. Whitty,
he was calm. unruffled, and dignified.—Re-examined by
Sergeant Wilkins: Mr. Ramshay was caricatured all over
the town, and there was a great demand for the caricatures.
Robert Core, an accountant, gave his opinion that Mr.
Ramshay always sifted the cases so as to get at the truth,
and that he was a dignified and courteous judge. He had
made excellent rules for the government of his court. He
never in his life saw a man more collected than 111 r. Ram.
shay was during Mr. Whitty's case, but he was annoyed
at the cries of hear, hear, and the clapping of hands at the
sentiments of Sir George Stephen. He heard the expres-
sion about a fisr. but he did not hear the judge call a man
an ass. Mr. Whitty had a smile of derision and defiance
on his countenance.—On cross-examination by Mr. Monk,
the witness said he had been in Lancaster Castle for debt;
but at the time he could have paid 40s. in the pound. He
had been in the navy, and had also worked a marble
quarry in Galway. He took the benefit of the act in 1849.
He did not hear Mr. Ramshay say to Mr. Simon, " Take
care, sir. you are nibbling at the offensive." Mr. Ram-
shay was always good tempered, except when severe with
witnesses who prevaricated. The judge said to Hartley,
" Man, this is a fist." Witness thought he could swear
he did not call him an ass.
Richard Beckett said he was a leather seller, at Liver-
pool, and foreman of the jury in the case of Mercer and
Roskell. (This was the case in which it was alleged that
Mr. Ramshay would not hear the evidence for the de-
fendant, and that he coerced the jury.) The witness said
the jury had been induced to give their verdict for the
plaintiff only by the evidence. The witness described the
conduct of Mr. Ramshay as being very proper on the
occasion.—Cross-examined : Mr. Ramshay told the jury
he could grant a new trial a hundred times. Witn:ss had
not acted as a juryman in that court since, and did not
wish. (A laugh.)—Sergeant Wilkins : You mean, I sup-
pose, that you don't wish to act as a juryman again in any
court. Witness : Yes, that is my meaning.
Mr. Thomas Clough, a solicitor, who had acted in the
case of Swallow and Waring, a claim for rent, described
the conduct of Mr. Ramshay, on that occasion, as legal
and proper. Mr. Ramshay did not refuse to allow Mr.
Dodd, the solicitor, to call evidence, but had merely
referred him to the strong documentary evidence on the
other side. Mr. Ramshay had granted immediate execu-
tion on the application of witness, because the defendant
had said he would never pay a farthing.—Cross-examined
by Mr. Monk : Mr. Ramshay did not say that Mr. Swal-
low seemed a very respectable man, and that he should not
allow any evidence to be called to contradict him.—Re-
examined : In my opinion Mr. Ramshay acted with great
talent and great propriety.
Henry Boardman, an auctioneer and appraiser at
Liverpool, said the statements in the newspapers against
Mr. Ramshay had produced an unfavourable impression
on his mind, but that impression had been removed after
he had visited the court.

ther a peculiar manner. The teeth, when Mr. Ramshay
speaks, especially with any degree of earnestness, are.close
together. He has false tenth. Some people would sup-
pose his peculiar manner arose from temper, but I, who
know him so well, know it is not so, out that it is his
manner. I was present on the occasion when Mr. Ram-
shay held up his fist. It was during Hartley's examina-
tion. There was a good deal of difficulty in getting from
Hartley, the bailiff, answers to Mr. Ramshay's questions.
Mr. MONK.—There is no difference between us on that
point.

• Mr. Ramsbay.—Never mind (addressing his counsel),
we will have the evidence.

Mr. Stone, in continuation.—There was evidently an
appearance, a desire on the part of Mr. Hartley not to
give the information he was possessed of.
The Earl of CARLISLE.—You admit, I think, Mr.
Monk, that it was an explanatory gesture. You are agreed
on that point.
Mr. MONK.—That is one of the questions I intend to
set right when I come to address your lordship.

Mr. Stone continued.—l did not hear the word '• ass"
used by Mr. Ramshay. lam satisfied it was not used ;
and if it had been used I most have heard it. I was within
a yard of the judge at the time of the examination.
Mr. ECUs.—That is your reason; but were you so near
that as a matter of fact you must have heard if it had been
used ?
The witness.—Yes, I am sure.

The Earl of CARLISLE.—Was the word man used ?

The witness.—My impression is that it was. There
was, however, no expression used by the judge to call
forth anything that attracted my attention.
Cross-examined by Mr. MoNx.—l have been high
bailiff of the County Court since the commencement of
the operation of the County Courts' Act, I think in 1846
or 1847, lam not sure ; 1847 perhaps. I have interested
myself once i❑ the appointment of a judge of this court.
I did not carry at any time memorials about for signatures.
I did not appeal to any one to sign a memorial. My
recollection is sufficiently good, that 1 would not hesitate
to swear it on my oath I never carried a memorial round,
nor invited any one to sign it. Mr. Snowball had the
memorial on the one side, and Mr. Evans on the other, I
believe.

Mr. MONK.—I don't want your belief.
The witness.—But I only state my belief unless I am
assured of the facts.

Mr. MoNx.—Don't give us your belief. I have not the
confidence in it that the other side have.
The witness.—l am much obliged to you.

Mr. OVENS offered some remarks to the court, to the
effect that this course of cross-examination was very
irregular; but it elicited no reply.
Mr. MONK.—NOW, Mr. Stone, you are a professional
man ; give your answers, as you know such is the proper
mode of giving evidence, and not your beliefs.
The witness, in reply to questions.—l was not employed
in any way by the Guardian Society in respect of that
memorial. I signed the memorial that was signed by the
legal profession in favour of Mr. Blair.

Mr. Henry Robinson, a silversmith, said he had been

six or seven times to the court. He bad been prejudiced
against the court, but when he went there the prejudice
was removed. In his opinion, the conduct of the judge
was marked by great perception, true judgment, and pro-
priety. Some of the persons in the conrt were very rude,
and he heard them call the judge fool, and ass, and say
he was mad to sit there. The judge threatened to fine
people if they wore their hats. Witness's opinion from
the placard was, that Mr. Ramshay had given an unfa-
vourable opinion of the people of Liverpool.—Cross-
examined.—Had been in the court at times for six or
seven hours. He was positive that the man who was
fined put on his hat in the inner court.—Re-examined :
The man's name was John Jones. Did not hear Jones's
cause tried.

Mr. Charles Green, a solicitor, who was present in Mr.
Whitty's case, gave his opinion that there was nothing in
Mr. Ramshay's manner inconsistent with the character
of a judge or a gentleman. He never saw him bursting
with rage. He was angry at the manner of Mr. Whitty,
who put on a look of defiance and impertinence.—Cross.
examined : He believed Mr. Whitty to be a very good-
tempered man.

Here the court adjourned for a short time.
The next witness was Mr. John Carr, a journeyman
ropemaker at Liverpool, who described the conduct of
the people in court, when Mr. Whitty was there, as very
rough. One man called the judge an old ass. Mr. Ram.
shay was calm and collected. There was nothing but
bother. It was more like a playhouse than anything
else.

Mr. Frederick Elliot, an appraiser, gave some corrobo-
rative evidence as to the mild demeanour of Mr. Ramshay.

William Charles Bew, coal agent, Crum-street, Liver-
pool, described the manner and conduct of Mr. Ramshay
to suitors to very calm, courteous, and attentive.—Cross-
examined : Mr. Ramshay was a little excited sometimes,
but he never saw any violent ebullitions.
Robert Williams, a tailor and draper in Liverpool, said
he went to the court very much prejudiced ; but his opi-
nion now was, that he never saw a better judge sit in a
court. He had been to all the courts, and he never saw a
court better managed. It had been much improved.
There used to be so many " lopers" and flatcatchers, who
offered their services to suitors. He had seen these vaga-
bonds about, but none were there now. They had been
sent away. (The witness here described the various pla-
cards issued, and the articles in the Liverpool papers.)
In his opinion, Mr. Ramshay was the personification of
justice. Cross-examined : He had come here volunta-
rily, and he would sell the coat off his back in such a
cause. He thought the judge had been very ill-used.
He had been subject to the bankruptcy laws.
Mrs. Fox, the wife of a tradesman at Rainhill ; Walter
Wheeler, secretary to several friendly societies ; Dr.
Eager, a retired physician, formerly practising in St. Pe-
ter's-square, Manchester; Thomas Calder, secretary of
the Liverpool Operative Loan Society ; James Farquhar,
treasurer for twelve years to the Imperial Loan Society ;
Richard Jones, a retired ironmonger; Thomas Carpenter,
shopkeeper; William Midgley, an accountant, of Liver-
pool ; John Wood, coal-merchant, Great Homer-street,
Liverpool ; John Cill, publican ; George Lee, formerly a
provision-merchant, but now retired ; John Mainwaring,
a coal-merchant, of Liverpool; Mary Ann Lennox, a
widow; Hugh Carmichael, accountant and collector, of
Liverpool ; gave evidence as to Mr. Ramshay's extreme
ability, and proper demeanour as a judge.
Mr. Sergeant Wit.xiNs then stated that he had exa-
mined all the witnesses but two—Mr. Stone and Mr.
O'Donnell. The former he did not think it would be ne-
cessary to examine, and the latter was not in attendance.
He would state also that Mr. Ramshay was most anxious
to be examined and cross-examined himself, but this he
(the learned sergeant) could not allow while he had the
conduct of the case. He asked, therefore, that his lord-
ship would allow him to conduct the remainder of the
examination on the following morning. The request was
granted, and at half-past six o'clock the court adjourned
until eleven o'clock on Saturday.
SATURDAY.

MoNx.—There is no necessity for introducing
gentlemen's names in this way; we all well know to whom
the memorial I am alluding to referred.
The witness.—The town does not know. I did not
prepare the memorial myself, nor settle it. Mr. Monk,
don't be mistaken, there were two memorials, and I did
not draw up the one I signed. I did not draw up any
memorial to that gentleman. I believe I asked some of
the legal gentlemen and professional gentlemen to sign
the other memorial. Will you permit me to correct my-
self in the answer I gave a moment or two ago ?
Mr. MONK.—Oh, certainly. _ _

The Witness.—ln addition to asking some of the legal
profession to sign the memorial, I also saw Mr. Evans
and Mr. Reay, of the Guardian Society. I went to them
on the subject. The object of my visit was to induce them
to interfere in behalf of the gentleman I have mentioned.
I presented one to the noble lord (the Lord Chancellor)
and refused to present the other, but enclosed it in a
letter.

Mr. Thurs.—You brought one to me.
The Witness.—l may mention, it was my opinion that
the second memorial _

Mr. MONK.—Don't give us your opinion on that
which does not arise.

The Witness.—l think it does arise. I was not preparing
a lease of some premises on the 27th of September for a
person named Caldwell ; and if you will permit me I will
explain. _

The Chancellor of the Duchy entered the court and
resumed his seat at five minutes to eleven o'clock this
morning. There was but a very thin attendance of audi-
tors in the body of the court compared with some of the
previous sittings. _

Mr. OvEss,-brfore any other business wasentered upon,
mentioned that he had been requested by his learned
friend, Mr. Sergeant Wilkins, to inform his lordship that
it was out of no disrespect to his lordship that he did not
appear in court this morning. His learned friend had
been detained from London, during this inquiry, at very
considerable inconvenience to himself, to which he had
submitted, no less from a feeling of the importance of the
case than from the respect he felt due to Mr. Ramshay,
whom he was proud to acknowledge as his friend. The
learned sergeant felt that he had done every justice in his
power to Mr. Ramshay, and his attendance being impe-
ratively required in town, he had been compelled to leave.
There was one, or at most but two witnesses more to be
examined on Mr. Ramshay's behalf, and the conducting
of that examination had been left to Mr. Sowler and
himself.

After some little delay, in the course of which Mr.
Ramshay entered the court, with the note-books of the
trials that had taken place before him, and the judgments
on which were impugned by the memorialists, under his
arm,

Mr. George Stone, high-bailiff of the court, was called
and examined by Mr. OVENS.—After stating that he had
been a solicitor practising in Liverpool for nearly twenty
years, this witness added, T have had every opportunity
of noticing and considering Mr. Ramahay's conduct and
demeanour since his appointment as judge of the Liverpool
County Court. I consider it calm, deliberate, and digni-

Mr. MONK.—No, no ; we must not have a speech
every time you answer. _ _

The Witness.—l had instructions to prepare a lease
in which Caldwell was interested ; but the instructions
were not given by Caldwell. Most distinctly it was not
agreed that part of the expense was to fall on Caldwell.
The agent gave me instructions, and not Caldwell. Cald-
well afterwards met me in the street, and said, offering me
a guinea, " Mr. Stone, here is my part of the expenses of
the lease ;" but I refused it, and said I knew nothing
about his paying. There is a practice, I believe, in Liver-
pool, as to who shall bear the expenses of the lease. The
practice is, unless parties agree to the contrary, that each
party bear their own expenses, that is, their equal share of
them. When I received instructions not one word was
said to me either pro or con., and I did not look at all at
Caldwell as my client. We had prepared the lease pre-
viously for the succeeding tenant, and they came to us
because, I suppose, we had done so.
The ASSESSOR.—MereIy to change the name ?
The Witness.—Just so ; merely to change the names.
Mr. MONlC.—Were these the only memorials you have
had anything to do with connected with this matter ?
The Witness.—They were the only memorials.
The ASSESSOR.—What memorials ?

The Witness.—The memorial respecting the appoint-
ment of Mr. Blair, and the memorial I enclosed to your
lordship.
Mr. MONK.—I did not suggest to Mr. Reay and the
Guardian Society to interest themselves as to the appoint-
ment of the judge. I called on Mr. Reay, and asked him
if the Guardian Society had any objection to present a
memorial.

Mr. MONK.—Yon don't call that a suggestion ?

The Witness.—l have mentioned the circumstance and
have given the reason. Except the two I have named, I
have not been interested in any memorial. I have not
suggested the getting up of a memorial for Mr. Ramshay
as a counter memorial to that complaining of his conduct.
Not in any way, either directly or indirectly.
. . .

Mr. MONK.L4f it has been said such a memorial has
been gotten up by you, and only received two signatures,
that is false.

The Witness.—l know nothing of the memorial. You
are referring to what has appeared in the newspapers ; but
it is not true ; they are erroneous on that point.
Mr. MONK.—I am not referring to the papers, but to
my instructions. Be kind enough, Mr. Stone, to confine
yourself to answering the question.
Cross-examination continued : The police are not
usually at the County Court. I believe six is the greatest
number of policemen I have known to be in attendance at
the County Count. Permit me to explain ?
Mr. MONK.-11 you wish to explain, please to address
his lordship, but I do not see what there is to explain.
The Earl of CARLISLE.—Give your answers, Mr. Stone,
if you please ; your counsel will cross-examine you, if re-
quisite, on any point that he thinks requires explanation.
The witness resumed : The impression may be sent
wrongly abroad, and that is the reason I wish to explain.
Mr. James, during the illness of Mr. Ramshav, sat in
three or four courts. Subsequently to that Mr. Lowndes
sat in the court for either two or three sittings. During
the period those gentlemen were there no policemen were
required at the court : at least, there were none there
whether they were required or not. I was not in the court
for so long a time whilst those gentlemen sat as when Mr.
Ramshay was sitting. I was there some two or three
times during the day. I will explain. When Mr. Ram-
shay was appointed, and for many weeks afterwards, his
state of health was very indifferent, and his pain during
nearly the whole of the time was most excruciating, and
he had little or no use in his hands for writing. He had
asked on several occasions for assistance from Mr. Statham,
the clerk of the County Court, but none was rendered: and
I volunteered, as a matter of feeling, more than anything
else, to become Mr. Rainshay's amanuensis; and I was
therefore almost necessarily in attendance there during
almost every court he sat, for that purpose. Since Mr.
Ramshay's resumption of the business and restoration to

health, I have not been there either as often or so long;
and I sometimes go for two or three hours every day, and
then go away as my other duties call for my attention;
for it is not necessary I should be in the court during tha
whole of the day, nor is it required by the Act of Parlia-
ment. The fines do not pass through my hands; I have
nothing whatever to do with them. Tam not able to tell
you how many persons Mr. James fined. He fined some,
T believe. I don't know how many Mr. Lowndes fined;
I don't know that Mr. Lowndes did or did not fine and
body. Mr. Lowndes sat after Mr. James. Mr. James
has not sat since Mr. Lowndes came. The police-officers
have been in the court since Mr. Whitty's affair, but not
before. At the time of the sickness of Mr. Ramshay,
which I have described to you, the latter part of that time
Mr. Ramshay resided in the County Court, and sometimes
he has done so since he resumed his business. He did so
in August last. He slept in the court. I believe he re-
mained there during the whole of the August court; but
I think not after that. I was at the dinner given by Mr•
Ramshay.
Mr. MONK.—And you had the honour of receiving a
piece of plate from Mr. Ramshay
The witness made no audible answer, but merely bowed
in assent to the question.
Mr. Mors.—l am glad to see that you bow in acknow-
ledgment of the honour ; but bows cannot be taken in
evidence. Was it not presented to you for the interest
you had taken in Mr. Ramshay's behalf ?
The Witness.—Nothing of the kind was said to me. I
will give you the inscription on the plate presented. It
was '7 Presented to (myself) by Mr. Ramshay, his friend,
as a slight testimony or token for the service's rendered to
him in a state of sickness and infirmity." I have knows
Mr. Ram,hay very intimately during the period he has held

office here.
Mr. MoNK.—Do you consider him a placid, good-teal..
perM man ?
The Witness.—l do not consider him good-tempered
or bad-tempered, but the average temper of men.
Mr. MONK.—Not easily excitable?
The Witness.—He is a man of strong feelings and

opinions.
Mr. MONIC.—I do not ask you whether he has strong
feelings or not ; but is he easily excitable ?
The Witness: I don't know that he is more easily ex-
cited than the average of men.
Mr. MoNK.—And that you state as a gentleman $
your opinion?
The Witness.—l do so.
Mr. Morts.—And if on your oath, you would state the
same thing?
The Witness.—l would as my opinion; and I believe,
more than that, I should be more easily excited than Mr•
Ramshay.
Mr. MONK.—You are not judge of the County Court
yet, Mr. Stone. You say he has these strong feelings
and strong opinions ; do they lead him to strong expreS-
sions ?
The Witness.—l don't know what you mean ; those
terms, strong expressions, are so equivocal.
Mr. MONK.—You don't; very well. Does he use
strong expressions sometimes ?
The Witness.—l don't know what you mean by those
words.

Mr. MoNK.—Very well ; I won't demur from your
opinion ?_.

'The Witness.—l am not aware that it is so, or that ha
makes use of stronger expressions than the ordinary class
of men.

Mr. MoNx.—Have you never known any instances in
which Mr. Ramshay has suggested actions for damages;
when parties were before the court, I mean.

Mr. OvEtcs objected to so general a question : the rule
had been laid down that the inquiry must be confined be-
tween August 25 and October 10.

Mr. SOWLER also objected.
Mr. Ramshay.-1 had much rather they be heard.

Mr. MONK.2-Mr. Stone has been in court and heard
everything that has taken place, and, therefore, it would
be a waste of words to explain what date I was confined
to. You understand, Mr. Stone, the date, and will noir
please answer the question ?
The Witness.—l have been there on a few occasions;
One was the instance of a poor girl, or woman rather,
_a
woman who, in the evidence given, had been robbed,
literally robbed, by some one who had got money on her
account and appropriated it to his own purposes; and Mr.
Ramshay, as the evidence came out, recommended her to
bring an action against this man for the money he had
misappropriated. She said she had ilot the means, and
Mr. Ramshay said, " Very well; if you have not the
means, I will give it you.' The other was the case of
Joyce which you have heard about ; and another was
servant girl, who had been badly treated, and had not the
means of bringing an action, and Mr. Ramshay gave di-
rections that the expenses of bringing the action should
be paid out of his own purse; and it was done. In the
case of Joyce it was urged he could not bring an action,
as he was not one of the officers of the court, and Mr.
Ramshay then said, " If you bring an action against this
party, and the same facts are proved to me that are proved
to-day, I don't know that I should be at liberty to give
less amount of damages than the Act of Parliament
enables me." I don't remember whether in the other
two causes he confined the bringing of the action to, or
recommended it to be brought in, his own court. I can-
not recollect whether one of those actions was an action
to be brought by a servant girl against her former master
and mistress.

Mr. MONK.—Now, on the 29th of September you say=
Mr. Ramshay was quite cool ?
The Witness.—Yes ; with the exception of the time
when the burst of applause took place.
Mr. MONK.—Was Mr. Ramshay's manner then not
only collected but cool ?
The Witness.—He evinced such collectedness that day
that I think other judges, under such circumstances, would
not have evinced.

Mr. MoNK.—That you would not have evinced if you
had been a judge ?
The Witness.—l think I should not have been so col-
lected ; that is my impression.
_ _

Re-examined by Mr. SOWLER.—I never saw Caldwell
with reference to the drawing of that lease ; he was not
my client. My business was with the agent, and not
with Caldwell. I have seen six policemen in court on one
occasion. I applied to Mr. Dowling, the superintendent
of police, for them, and that was either on the day or the
day after the 29th. It was after the disturbances occa.
sioned by the Whitty case that any policemen were asked
for ; none were asked before. With regard to one of
those actions suggested by Mr. Ramshay, the judge paid
£5 out of his own pocket because the party was poor. r
have not seen Dr. O'Donnell this morning.
Mr. SOWLER.—This, my lord, closes the case.

Mr. Ramshay, (addressing the Chancellor).—Some of
the causes tried before me have been referred to, and I
wish your lordship to see my notes on these causes.
Mr. MONK objected. When these notes were called for,
notice having been given for the production of certain
documents, they were refused.
The AssEssoa.—lf that notice had been complied with,
then they would have been received, you mean ?
Mr. Ramshay.—They were never asked for.
The ASSESSOR.—The notes, in truth, are not evidence
at all.

Mr. MONK.—They would have been evidenee if we had
called for them.
The AssEssoß.—And the other side had assented.
Mr. Ramshay.—We are not trying an action, my lord?
we are but sitting as a court of inquiry.
The ASSESSOR.—We had better hear from Mr. Sowler
what his application is.
Mr. SOWLER.—WeII, then, I tender the notes, and I
wish it to be on your notes that they are tendered, and
that Mr. Monk objects.
Mr. Ramshay.—l have tendered these notes, as I wish
them to be in the hands of your lordship. One more
observation, my lord, before I retire from court.
should not wish to volunteer myself as a witness in nil
own cause ; but I wish to put myself here open to cross-
examination by Mr. Monk on any point connected with
this matter, if he chooses to ask me any questions.

The Earl of CARLISLE.—I understood you had ex-
pressed an anxiety to become a witness ; and that you,
were not called upon because your counsel, who has con-
ducted your case with a great deal of ability and zeal,
had advised that you should not give evidence.
Mr. Ramshay.—l merely tender myself as a witneSS,
if Mr. Monk chooses to ask me any questions.
Mr. TINDAL ATICINSON.-If your lordship recollects,
there was an article in the Journal, referred to yesterdalf
which was to be read this morning, and I now wish to
read it.
Mr. Ramshay.—lt was alluded to, not for the purpose
of being read, but that it might be handed in to your
lordship.
Mr. SOWLER.-I object to its being read, unless it
opens the other side to another reply.
The ASSESSOR.-It does, but merely on that particular
point.
sooMnrir,MONK., mfry lord,
umdu I
doing so.
t tIo
mhauvset
ninutwertafeerliscl:
tion that the rule is, when a party is represented u 7
counsel, he cannot appear by himself.
Mr. Ramshay.—Yes, but Mr. Sergeant Wilkins beie_gt
absent, and this being a matter of which I am cognisel;
myself, I have the right. to interfere ; and I may stag

that I wish the article to be put in.
The Earl of CARLISLE.—My impression is, that it wag
arranged last night this article was to be given in and rea
to-day.

—aaThateins so,
read thmyle followingord. extract fr°lll
the Journal, of August 30 :
M 1 ‘ I rr.. MAT°: IK./4
The.
" A little event of our own has got into general historY• .011*
small affair of Mr. Ramshay has been found to involve marts,ri
principle, namely, the responsibility of judges of Countyor
It is doubtful, when they misconduct themselves, whethertiPio
are amenable to any authority inferior to that of the Ingtar-
Parliament ; and it is no longer a secret that the Earl of Lord
lisle, in his recent judgment, was guided Folely by tile
__alte
Chancellor, and that the question of responsibility will ens
the attention of Government. with
Mr. Ramshay has returned to us, we rejoice to sal:, s is
improved health and in better temper. The proceedin_gaire
his court during the week have been of a nature to give ewer
satisfaction ; and a perseverance in that mode and In„ the
which befits his place and standing will secure hiMjl"osed
commendation it is in our power to bestow. We aria isl:vas s
even to hope that his opening address on Monday '
ivelaa'
last effort of expiring bad taste, as it assuredly wag! a ~,„t s
choly proof of his utter want of tact. It is amusing 14.!:„a..
idle
gentleman of Mr. Ramshay's parts, not to mention lulise
rience, should be guilty of the folly of supposing that
u., _ro.,
threats of prosecuting the tradesmen of Liverpool cant f,ing
yoke anything but laughter in the. public, or cause
_r'est,
but win to his friends. If he be wise he will let the Pe"
and persevere in improved manners."
othiog
Mr. SOWLER.—I have only to say that I have n
to say upon that. Per haP5
Mr. Ramshay again rose, and observed, that
is aadreo'
his lordship, before Mr. Monk commenced li. . _of
would allow him to return thanks on behalffo of nia.
r the g
res
Mr. Sergeant Wilkins, and his counsel,