The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1848-01-11 00:00:00

ADJOURNED COUNCIL MEETING

(Continued from page 5.)
Mr. Eve's.—They might as well talk of taxing the
Mersey. They might rely upon it parliament would
never allow them to tax the commerce of the country.
Mr. Lloyd said they only asked an enabling power to buy
land ;—he (Mr. Evans) only wanted an enabling power to
build warehouses. They might rely upon it, that there
was not a committee of either House of Parliament that
would not replace the warehouse clause in the bill with
indignation. They had heard a great deal about the pur-
chase at the north end ; but it seemed that was only for
the accommodation of the timber trade, and not for the
purpose of docks. But he should like to know what was
to become of timber ships whilst discharging their cargoes.
There was enough of open dock accommodation, at least
there would be when the 70 or 80 acres now in course of
construction were opened ; but there was a scarcity of
warehouses. (" No. no.")
Mr. HOLME.—One-half are empty.
Mr. EARLE.—At least one-third are unlet.
Mr. EVANS.—But there was a scarcity of dock ware-
houses. He could have no confidence in any act which
was not enabling on one side as well as on the other—
which did not enable them to build warehouses as well as
to purchase land. The warehouse interest was twice as
powerful as ever, and it was his firm opinion they would
never let them have another dock warehouse if they could
help it. Another gentleman had declared that if they at-
tempted to build warehouses around the Prince's Dock,
they would be expelled out of the committee. He ( Mr.
Evans) believed the contrary ; but if they were—what
would they be out of doors ? A great deal more powerful
than that Council. If the Council were going to prefer
private interest to public, he could tell them that before
the country and the Legislature they would lose every
particle of power. It wr.s by no means improbable that
the Government might put the docks into commission,
and take them to the public account.
Mr. EARLE complained that Mr. Evans had made use
of threatening language, as he always did, for the pur-
pose of deterring members of the Council from doing
their duty. He (Mr. Earle) had always contended that
around the docks was the best position for warehouses,
and had voted for their erection there; but, at the same
time, he had very great doubts whether a public body like
the Dock Committee ought to be allowed to compete with
private individuals. Mr. Danson's advice was a great
deal better than that given by Mr. Evans. The latter
always thought his arguments, because they came from
him, were unanswerable. He talked of what the parlia-
ment would do, of what the country—that was Mr.
Evans (laughter)—would do, and he told him (Mr. Earle),
the other day, that he would go to London himself to
oppose them, and raise all London about their ears.
(Laughter.)
Mr. EVANS.—I never said so.

Mr. EARLE.-But you told me you would go to Lon-
don, and oppose the bill ; and if you did not say you
would raise all London, you promised to raise the opposi-
tion of parliament against us. Mr. Earle concluded by
observing that the matter might be so arranged that the
bill could go through parliament without any opposition
at all.

Mr. Alderman HonusoN was not sorry the rating clause
had been omitted, because it would afford time for a just
consideration of the conclusion they ought to arrive at.
He thought there were very important questions with
regard to rating both docks and warehouses. They ought
to know why one should be charged, and theother not—
or why either should be exempt ? He was as much alive
as any man could be to the necessity of accommodating
the trade of the port, and also to the importance of hav-
ing warehouses around the docks ; but he thought the
true test of the wants of the trade was to be found in
the prospects of private interests. He was of opinion
that public corporate bodies were not the proper parties
to have the management of warehouses, for they would be
much better and more economically conducted by private
parties. There was no occasion for going to parliament
this session at all, and if they waited for some time, he
had no doubt but arrangements might be made for the
building of warehouses around the docks, by private indi-
viduals, on a much cheaper and more economical plan
than by a public body. He was much surprised at the
sentiments uttered in the Council that day. He did not
mean to say it was intended, but, certainly, the arguments
adduced would lead any one to suppose that there were
two systems of morality in existence—one for private in-
dividuals, and the other for public bodies. He held that
what was right fora private individual to do. could not be

wrong for him in his public capacity. They sat there to
do justice, and he (Mr. Hodgson) felt satisfied that
he who did what was right and just promoted the general
interest much better than by advocating any scheme of
his own invention from sinister motives. He contended
that leases might be granted in the same way as Corpora-
tion leases, to private individuals for the erection of ware-
houses around the docks •, then why should they injure
the property of private individuals—nay, their own pro-
perty—by permitting competition between the Dock Com-
mittee and private individuals ? He did not know whether
the Albert Dock warehouses were likely to pay a fair per
centage upon the outlay ; at all events they ought to wait
until there was a fair trial of them, and it was known
what was the result.
Mr. S. HOLME said it was not his intention to have
said anything on the subject before the Council, but as
the Mayor had permitted the warehouse question to be
mooted, he should avail himself of the opportunity of
saying a few words, as he did not intend the remarks Mr.
Evans had seen fit to make with reference to warehouses
in general, and warehouse owner. in pas Lis ulaa, to paoe
unnoticed. Before, however, he said much upon that
subject, he begged to observe that, from what he under-
stood, the Dock Trustees had already as much on their
hands as would fully employ them for the next eighteen
months or two years, and as they were not short of mo-
ney, (for, under existing acts, they could raise £115,000,)
and looking at the fact that all the great railway compa-
nies in the kingdom are suspending operations, and that
half the warehouses in Liverpool are empty, nothing can
be lost, but everything gained, by delay. He thought the
warehouse owners were deserving of better treatment than
they had lately received, and deserved some consideration,
when it was known that they had come forward to accom-
modate the trade of the port, by building warehouses, when
the Dock Trustees had not a single shilling to apply to
such a purpose. He knew of one case where a warehouse
owner was now a bankrupt, offering 4s. in the pound.
He had let his warehouses, worth £2,000, for £BOO, out
of which he had £750 to pay for interest of his mortgage,
leaving only £5O for the support of himself and his family.
He knew of another instance, where the interest of the
mortgage was £7OO, the rental of which was £l5OO, and
now let for £9OO. A large family had to be supported
out of the balance, and one of that family was a cripple.
These were cases, and there were many such, which, at
all events, ought to prevent the warehouse owners from
being treated with cruelty. If parties who had embarked
their capital in gas and water companies, were to be com-
pensated for the money so expended, and parliament had
affirmed the principle, why should they become master
porters, coopers, and warehouse-keepers, in opposition to
private tradesmen ?—why should not some indemnity be
given for the deterioration of their property ? With
reference to what had been said about the non-rating of
warehouses cheapening the trade of the port, he (Mr. H.)
was quite as ready as any one to make great sacrifices, but
let them have even-handed justice. Why should the mer-
chant have his cargo in their dept free from local bur-
dens whilst the retail dealer was taxed ? With reference
to what had fallen from Mr. Evans, he did say that gen-
tleman had added insult to injury; and he (Mr. Holmes)
rejoiced to meet him face to face, in order to have an op-
portunity of answering his arguments. He knew that
sundry articles had appeared in the newspapers, to which
certain parties were in the habit of contributing; but
when they were told that the warehouse owners were a set
of harpies, it was language which could not come from
any honourable man's mouth, and could not emanate
from any honourable man's mind—(hear.)—when they
were told that there were widows and orphans, but those
were designated widows with short beards and orphan s of
mature growth—such language waqunhecoming—unfeeling
—unchristian ! (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Holmes) could
not refrain from expressing his honest feelings ; but Mr.
Evans, in applying to the warehouse owners a want of
public morality—
The Mayor.--I did not hear that remark.
Mr. HOLME.—I took down the words. sir.
Mr. EVANS.—I said this council would be wanting in
public morality. You have made me talk nonsense.
Mr. HOLME.—I have not been making him talk non-
sense, but he certainly has talked a great deal of nonsense.
He would say in behalf of the warehouse owners that they
fairly and honourably met Mr. Bramlev-Moore. and per-
mitted him to go on with the Albert dock warehouses when
they might have prevented him. He thought the obser-
vations of Mr. Danson were of great importance, and de-
serving of consideration. Instead of calling names, it
would be much better if a deputation from the council
were to meet a deputation of warehouse owners, and settle
the question in an amicable way. But Mr. Evans had said
that warehouses could be built at half the expense of the
Albert Warehouses. He (Mr. Holme) would have no
objection to take the opinion of Mr. Evans as to the value
of a bale of cotton, but certainly not about building a
warehouse. However, if that could be accomplished, it
would be much better to give them a fair trial, to
see what would be their cost when extended over
two or three years, and then they would be in a
better position for going to parliament if they thought
it would pay. There was some inconsistency in the re-
marks of Mr. Evans. Formerly he objected to any fur-
ther increase of works, but now he is not unfavourable to
going to parliament for the purpose of having another half
million or million of money expended on dock warehouses.
Let this subject remain for a year or two—let the present
warehouses have a fair trial—let every notice and conside-
ration be given to the warehouse owners, and the Council
would not find them offering any factious opposition to
measures intended for the public good ; but they did
object to the crude measures now brought forward.
Mr. EVANS, in a state of excitement, demanded an ex-
planation from Mr. Holme.
This led to considerable confusion, in the course of
which the Mayor requested that order might be restored.
Mr. EVANS.—He talked to me about manliness, and
that I must—
Mr. HOLME.—I did not make any remarks attributing
the authorship of the observations in the newspapers to
Mr. Evans ; but does Mr. Evans deny that he wrote
them ? If not, has he the manliness to avow them?
I have read them in newspapers supporting Mr. Evans 's
views, and I remarked upon them accordingly. If the cap
fits him, let him wear it.
Some further confusion ensued, in the course of which
Mr. RATHBONE walked to the centre of the room, and
said he wished to call the Mayor's attention to what had
just passed. One gentleman had talked of manliness, and
the other about bullying. (Hear, hear.)
The MAYOR.—I did not hear the remark.
Mr, RATHBONE.—I certainly heard Mr. Evans say it is
time to put a stop to this bullying ; and I think there
should be something done to prevent anything further
occurring out of this room.

The MAYOR called on both gentlemen to give an assur-
ance that nothing further should occur out of doors.
Mr. HOLME.—I was commenting on what I had read
in the newspapers. L► one of them the warehouse owners
are called a set of harpies. 1 certainly said—Whoever was
the author of that observation was guilty of conduct un-
becoming the character of a gentleman ;—I die not say
who was the author.

Mr. EVANS.—If I recollect right, that referred to the
master tradesmen.

Mr. HOLME.-It was not that article I alluded to

The MAYOR hoped that both gentlemen would give an
assurance that nothing further should take place.
Mr. HOLME.—I have no hesitation in saying in the face
of this Council, that I do not consider myself bound by
what is commonly called the laws of honour, but which I
think anything but honourable. I dare not offend the
law by fighting a duel, and run the risk of embruing my
hands in my brother's blood. I dare not offend GOD by
fighting a duel, and I never will place myself in a position
by which I may be either a murderer or a suicide. (This
was uttered in such a cool and solemn manner as produced
considerable effect in the Council.)

Mr. EVANS.—Then you should keep a civil tongue in
your head.

The MAYOR.—Order, order.) Now, Mr. Evans, I
hope you will have no hesitation in giving the required as-

surance.
Mr. EVANS.—Of course he puts himself out of the pale
of being held responsible.
The MAvon.—l must put an end to this.
Mr. RATUBONE. —Such conduct as this is exceedingly
unbecoming. I hope my friend, Mr. Evans, will see the
impropriety of it, and give us an assurance that no further
proceedings shall take place.
Thd MAYOR (to Mr. Evans)
withdraw that expression.
Mr. EvANs.—What expression ?
The MAYOR.—That any person who refuses to fight a
duel puts himself out of the pale.
Mr. EVANS.—Out of the pale ! Pale of what

—I must request you will

meaning to it.
The MAYOR.—It is due to the Council that you with-
draw that expression.
Mr. EVANS.— The withdrawal must begin there.
(Pointing to Mr. S. Holme.)
The MAYOR.—Much has been said on•both sides which
might have been spared.
Mr.. EVANS.—He has put himself out of the pale of
being responsible by the manner which has been had
recourse to.

The MAYOR.—That is not satisfactory. (No, no.) I
must request you to give the assurance that you will take
no further steps.
__

Mr. EVANS.—He has put it out of my power.
The MAYOR.—WiII you give the assurance ?
The MAYOR.—That you yourself will not originate any
proceedings.
Mr. EVANS.—Of course.

Mr. Rosissolv then briefly addressed the Council, and
after regretting, the scene which had just taken place, pro-
ceeded to argue that warehouses around the docks would
prove advantages, and pay a handsome revenue to the es-
tate, as the Albert Dock warehouses were already doing.

Mr. G. HOLT contended that it was not deirable-to
proceed with the• bill in its present shape, as it was to-
tally inadequate to the demands of the trade of the port.

Mr. Alderman Ntcot. recalled the attention Of the
Council to the subject before them.
Mr. BENNETT wished to know from the Town-clerk
whether if Mr. Holt's amendment was carried, the rating
clause might not be left out altogether in Committee,
and the bill passed, and warehouses built without being
subject to rates
The TOWN-CLERK.-It is possible.
Mr. BENNETT.—Is it not more—is it not probable ?

The TOWN-CLERIC-1 cannot say that. It is not un-
likely. however, that in Parliament the Committee may

introduce the railway clause, and not the rating clause.
Mr. BENNETT —1 wish to know in the event of Mr.
Bramley -Moore's motion being carried, whether members
may not insist on a, warehouse clause being inserted
without the rating clause ?
The TOWN-CLERK.—Yes.
Mr. BENNErr.—Then I. shall vote for the postpone-
ment of the Bill altogether.
The MAYOR.—That is not before the Council at present.
Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE then replied. He contended
that the Council would be stultifying itself by adopting
the amendment.

The votes were then taken on the amendment, when
there appeared—For, 13 ;• against, 38

For.—Messrs. Walthew, Rathbone, Evans, Stitt, H
Hornby, Aikin, Holt, Tinne, G. H. Lawrence, Lace, T
Lloyd, Benn, and the Mayor.

Against.—Messrs. Woodruff, Morris, Preston, Hill,
Littledale, Tyrer, G. H. Horsfall, Henderson, Robinson,
Toulmin, Rimmer, Royden, Harbord, Rogers, S. Holme,
Tobin, Booker, Reade, Kaye, Gardner, Danson, Earle,
J. B. Lloyd, Bennett, Parker, Plumpton, Jones, Mann,
Hodgson, Swainson, J. Holmes, Sir T. Brancker, Nicol,
Cooper, Wood, Procter, Bramley-Moore, and Chilton.

Mr. H. HORNBY then moved another amendment—
" That it is not desirable to proceed with the bill in the
present session of parliament."

Mr. BENNETT seconded the motion.
Mr. EARLE again spoke in favour of the rating of dock
warehouses.

Mr. PARKER said he would support the amendment,
because he was in favour of rating the warehouses. The
tank at Green-lane was rated in the parish of West Derby,
and why should dock warehouses be exempt ?
Mr. Alderman HODGSON spoke in favour of delay as
tion. - - - -

Mr. Alderman NicoL contended that if the amendment
were carried, the Council would be stultifying their pro-
ceedings, as they had already affirmed the proposition for
going to parliament. He implored them to act in some
degree with consistency.

Mr. S. HOLME and Mr. Alderman COOPER declared
their intention of supporting the amendment.
Mr. A. LACE said it was very important to bear in
mind, that if the bill went to parliament they would cer-
tainly insist upon a warehouse clause being inserted. Al-
though it was against his own personal interests, he
thought the best place for warehouses was around the
docks, and so he would vote for them being erected under
proper regulations.
After a few words from Mr. Bramley-Moore, the Coun-
cil divided, when there appeared

FOr the Amendm—ent

AgrAnst

LATEST INTELLIGENCE.
(BY EXPRESS.)

WATER ARBITRATION.
The Accountant appointed by the Arbitrator to investi'
grte the books and accounts of the two Water Companies
has been occupied, during the past week, in examining
the financial expense of the Harrington Company, for the
year just ended. Various objections to the Company
accounts were urged by Mr. Hawkesley, oil behalf of the
Corporation, all of which were however satisfactorily eV
plained by the company's officers. The vario& accounts
of the Company have been subject to a most rigid scrutiny►
by the parties representing the Corporation—nothing
however has transpired to make it appear that these ae"
counts had been prepared with a view to enhance the value
of the Works.

The Arbitrator has intimated his desire that the AC'
countant should finish his labour to-morrow morning•
The decision will in all probability be given during tivi
present week.

Yesterday morning, Thomas Sale, aged 25, was executes
at Newgate, for the murder of Mr. Belrhambers. The
wretched man made a full confession of his guilt, and
added that all which M'Coy had stated Was true.

LONDON CORN MARKET.—YESTEKDAY.
Since our last report, a sharp frost has setin, and this change
in the weather pave more tone to the Wheat trade this morn-
ing; the English samples were in better condition, and in good
request, at fully the currency of this day week.
There was also a better demand for foreign at former prices•
Barrel Flour in moderate request. Indian Corn ruled dull, but
not pressed for sale under our previous currency.-
The continued (lull state of the Malt trade keeps malting
barley depressed, and the quality being mostly- seconclarY,
rendered the sale the more difficult, although offered- owratha
lower terms.

In Beans and Peas there was no alteration.
The Oat trade remains steady in value, but the-sale coil'
tracted chiefly in small parcels to necessitous buyers.

MONEY MARKET-YESTERDAY

The operations in public securities are now less affected by
the current of external events than by the state of the account•
Consols for the opening commenced at 86i buyers, have -been
done at 86k, and are now sellers at 80. The advance was al)"
parently checked by the speculators for the advance realisinA
profits. The Three per Cents. Reduced have been done at s&1
to g, the Three-and-a-quarter per Cents. at 87h to 2, BankstooL
190 2, India 233 4. Exchequer Bills have advanced to 20,227'

PRESENTATION OF PLATE

TO MR. HAT 4,

ST. ANNE'S WARD

Yesterday evening, a meeting was held at Mr. Cleget
Pontack Inn, Christian-street, of the most influential'
members of St. Anne's Ward, for the purpose of present?
ing to Mr. Oliver Hatch, several valuable pieces of platef
for his services as secretary of the conservative committee;
in St. Anne's Ward: After an excellent dinner, the most,
interesting portion of the evening was commenced bl
the Chairman, Mr. Parker, giving the health of the Queer'
and the usual loyal toasts, which were drank with all 00'
honours.

Mr. PARKER gave next—" Our glorious Constitutiolk
in Church and State." The next toast was the toast of
the evening—" the Health of Mr. Oliver Hatch." Mr'
Parker paid a very high compliment to Mr. Hatch, for
his services as a leading member of the committee of hi°
ward, and then proceeded to present—which he did id
very touching and appropriate language—a very neatly'
designed piece of plate to M. Hatch, which was acknovr'
ledged by that gentleman in very feeling terms.
Amongst the company present we observed Mr. J. Bar"
nett (vice-chairman), Mr. R. L. Jones, Mr. G. H. Hors'
fall, Mr. Woodruff, &c.

It has been settled that the Bishop of Manchester, and
not Dr. Hampden will take the vacant seat on the epis'
coal bench in the House of Lords.

The Times authoritatively contradicts a report which
has been industriously circulated, that Prince Albert ig
labouring under a disease of the lungs.
Abd-el-Kader and the Duke d'Aumale have met, and
the ex-sultan presented the duke with his horse as a token
of gratitude, which the duke received "as an homaig
tendered to France, and a sign of oblivion of the past.'
At the Limerick Special Session,.
murder
on Friday,
of a
a rna
named Dee was convicted of the• farmer
f
named Nornan, who occupied some land from which 04
murderer had been dispossessed for non-payment of rent.
This is the second capital conviction at this special session'
and several parties have been transported for life.
It is a singular fact that the opposition to the BishoP °
f
Manchester is the first occasion irrwhich the election of 5
bishop has been opposed since the days of ArchbishoPe
Laud, whose nomination of Bishop Montague to the seeol
Hereford, we believe, was opposed by the Puritans.
opposer then not having his objections set forth in writing
was refused a hearing by the commissioners.
On Saturday, Patrick Reid was executed at York for
the triple murder at Mirfield. Mbre than thirty thousand
persons were present. On his appearance on the seaffol
he seemed perfectly resigned to his fate, though his coat'
tenance was deadly pale. He was attended by a Roman
Catholic priest, and just before the fatal bolt was removt
he said to the officers around him, " M'Cabe is entirm
innocent ; no other person in the world had anything '
do with it." Owing to the looseness of the rope, it lc
two minutes before the unhappy man ceased to be cos'
vulsed and the world closed on him for ever.
GUANO--The import-.of Aliono• into this port it, 105
`Was 1173;765—thn1, -Oriflirdh iii 494 were from Ichaboe•
In 1846 and 1817, there being no arrivals from Ichaboef,
there were imported respectively- 22;513 tons and 25,02 v
tons. The stock in this port at the close of the year;
1845, 1846, and 1847, was respectively 80,884, 46,423, tol
28,660 tons. At the former period there were, however'
49,344 tons of Ichaboe, which dwindled down in 184
to 6,790 tons. The consumption in 1846 was 56.91,
tons, and in 1847 it. was 42,787-tons. In the former ye
there were consumed 34,715 tens of Ichaboe guern
island'
whilst in 1847 there were only 7,839 tons of that
produce consumed.
THE IRON TRADE.—The colliers in the iron distO
about Birmingham still continue out, and from the further ,
suspension of forges, in all probability, in the course of 11
few weeks the number of men unemployed will be consr%
derably increased. From a statistical account published 1n
the Birmingham Journal last week, it appears that the
Staffordshire mining district, which six months ago 105.
sented a scene of busy and profitable industry unequalled
in any other part of England,, wears just now a charge°
and cheerless aspect. There are altogether 137 blast
naces in the district. Of these, 68 are out of blast, aria
72 in, and so lately as since December' 38 out of the
named as blown out have been stopped in consequence ?.
the depressed state of trade. The number of furnaces '
Mist in the depressed state of trade in June, 1843, was I‘,"
ff
and out of blast 69—total, 141. The ironmasters' meets
ing next week will be looked forward to with considereb'
anxiety both by sellers and buyers, to know what will b,
done. If the men remain out, several of the irontnasiee
now working short time will close their works altosetb
until the crisis has passed over.

METEOROLOGICAL REGISTER,
BY MR. C. H. CHADBURN, 71, LORD-STREET

ATMOI

PHERIC

Daily Dire°.
t
Fall 0.1
Wl°
of
Rain. NOS.
.

Temper
shade b'

Faure in

Pressure at

y self-re- Humidity at
!ring No•n.
[meter.

Nine Six I -
a.m. l p.m. Max,

Min. bpurlt. I bWnIT,

Deg. Deg. Deg
42 49 47
37 44 43
3S 38 37•
38 41 40.
33 40 39

In.
012 S•°.
o'll S.W.
o'l4
010 asN
o'o3 s.bi`

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