The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-08-21 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD

which were self-elected? With respect to the admini,tration
of the funds of charitable estates, he was disposed to admit, that
when the governing body was popularly chosen, and no check
imposed on• the qualification. of the constituency, there might be
a reason for having an effective check; and he had no objec-
tion that a control should be provided much more effectual than
that which the Court of Chancery at present provided. As to
the general proposition of his noble and learned friend, that
one-fourth of the representative body should be chosen for life,
he must say that he could notcommand language strong enough
to express, not only his opposition, but his utter aversion and
disgust of it.: If it were once acceded to, it woucl open the dour
to all the worst evils of the existing system. He looked upon
this bill as.in their lordships' hands for its salvation or destruc- •
tion. By the alterations already made it was all but destroyed.
The amendment before their lordships, if carried, would, he
feared, be utterly fatal to the measure. He regarded the amend-
ment
itself as utterly Inc •lisistent with the principle of the mea-
sure into which it was proposed to introduce it, and tending in
practice to render it nugatory. By foisting in aldermen- for
life, the self-elective principle completely overlaid every other,
and was calculated in the working of the measure and in the
fulness of tinie to restore every borough to its state of pristine
rottenness. 'rile vigour and purity of principle which, in other
respects, would be introduced into the eovernmeut of corpora-
' thins by the measure, would be paralysed by the baneful self-
elective provision. If their lordships should adopt the amend-
ment of his noble and learned friend, they would send forth a
mockery. a mere shadow under the pretence of the substance of
reformation, tainting the whole mass with rottenness, and dis-
appointing, wofully disappointing the universal, the sanguine,
the ardent, and unquestionably the just expectations of the peo-
ple of England. (-Cheers.)
Lord WHARNCLIFFE was surprised to find the speech of the
noble lord so devoid of argument. Ile thought that noble lords
on his side of the house had a right to adopt and stand by a
principle embodied in .a bill laid upon their table with due gra-
vity, and after due deliberation, by a Lord High Chancellor of
England. That was all that he and his friends were contend-
ing for with the noble and learned lord who had just sat down.
( Hear. hear.) He (Lord W.) sincerely believed that the in-
troduction of members for life would enable the bill to work
well, and that it was absolutely necessary to provide against the
town councils under this bill becoming mere political engines,
as was the Casa with the common council of the city of London.
To send the measure forth without this corrective would be to
strike a blow at the very root of the aristocracy by giving the
entire power in corporations to the democracy.
Lord ELLENtioitouoti said, he believed it essential to the
public interests that a bill for the reform of corporations should
pass that house. He found no fault with the bodies who had
heretofore exercised the corporate functions, but he thought
there was a defect in the appointment by the crown of the go-
' verning bodies of towns, which required the correcting hand of
that house to remedy. Ile was quite sure the noble viscount
opposite (Viscount Melbourne) had no other object in view in
the measure before the house than the good and quiet govern-
ment of the different towns to which it referred. He (Lord
Ellenborough) having the same object in view, was desirous of
seeing his noble and learned frienu's amendment form part of
the bill.

Lord MELBOURNE began by observing, that his noble and
learned friend (Lord Brougham) had so ably and so fully dis-
cussed the subject under consideration, that he (Lord Mel-
bourne) had but little to say upon it. After the fullest consi-
deration that he could give to the amendment of the noble and
learned lord, he was bound to declare that he could not but
regard it as seriously injurious, if not entirely fatal to the bill
(cheers.) The amendment would divest it of that character f;
popularity which was its best recommendation to the country:
It was calculated to impede the march of the measure, and clog
every object which the framers of it had in view. What these
objects were had been already well described to their lordships
and also the manner in which they would be interfered with
by the anomalous provision which it was the purport of the no-
ble and learned lord's amendment to introduce. He could not
help remarking that there was a singular discrepancy between
the arguments of the two noble lords who had last spoken, and
the noble and learned lord who was the author of the amend-
ment.. The noble and learned lord had spoken in a spirit of the
utmost hostility against the bill, describing in the most glowing
colours the degradation of all those principles of the representa-
tive system which were most cherished in the days of his youth
in favour of more democratic and dangerous sentiments, treat-
ing the bill before their lordships as the offspring of the change.
The whole force of his argument lay in pointing out the dan-
gers of the time at which they had arrived, when it became ne-
cessary to give way to the prejudices and submit to the wildest
fancies and caprices of the governed. The present bill he pro-
fessed to retard as an emanation from the altered spirit of the
times. His hostility to the bill, and to all the principles upon
which it was founded, was conspicuous in every argument and
sentiment of his speech. 14 stigmatized the measure as One
br.mght forward with the molt reckless haste, crude, and in-
considerate in its provisions. Now, if the noble and learned
lord believed all this of the measure, he ought to have moved
'its rejection altogether. (Cheers.) Other noble lords, however,
and especially the two who had just spoken, although support-
ing the amendment, were clearly sensible of the necessity of
passing such a measure as the present. But if they were sin-
cere in their advocacy of the measure, how came it that all the
amendments upon-the bill were drawn up by the unfriendly
hand of the noble and learned lord (Cheers.) ? The noble and
learned lord's amendment of course went to the root and foun-
dation of the measure. The bill itself proposed that the govern-
ing bodies should be purely elective. The amendment proposed
the introduction of a certain number of members for life. Was
not this a complete anomaly? History, he knew, would fur-
nish a precedent for almost everything; but for such a proposi-
tion it offered no example.
Lord LYND kIUR3T observed that the corporation of the City of
London was a case in point : the aldermen were elected for life,
the common councilmen were not.

Lord MELBOURNE said that the courts of aldermen and com-
mon council were separate courts; his observation applied to
the proposal to constitute one body—partly of annually elective
and partly of members foi life. The effect of maintaining the
existing aldermen must be to stamp the new system .with the
Unpopularity of the old. Considering that they were making a
reat change in the municipal government of all these towns, It
did
not appear to him. undoubtedly, any injustice to remove these
flersons froM the situations they occupied at present, to which
situations in all probability, if the deserved it, they would be
again elected. At the same time he thought they would de-
prive the bill of a great portion of its advantage and its :race,
if they forced upon these towns reluctantly, and by force of law,
individuals whom they would not otherwise have chosen.
(Cheers.) For these reasons ho opposed the amendment of
the noble and learned lord.
The Duke of WELLINGTON spoke in favour of the amend-
ment.

After a few words in reply from Lord LyNtinuasr, the house
divided—

• For the amendment
Agains.. it 39
Majority for the amendment —B7
The clauses proposed by Lord Lyndhurst were then added to
the bill.

Clauses from 27 to 33 were then, after several verbal amend-
ments, agreed to.
The house then resumed.
The wills execution, executors, and prisoners' defence bills
were referred to a select committee.
Adjourned at a quarter-past Twelve o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY.
The speaker took the chair at four o'clock.
Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from forty-eight licen-
tiates of the college of physicians against the code of laws lately
promulgated by that body. The same hon. member presented
another petition firm Mr. Silas Pease, complaining that his
tender to the board of admiralty for the supply of stone had been
rejected while that of anotherperson had been accepted, although
it was lid, per cubic foot higher than he (the petitioner) had
offered to supply the article.
BUSINESS OF THE nousx.
On the motion of Lord JOHN Russ sr.'. it was ordered that
the house should meet each day at twelve o'clock until the end
of the session.

COMMUNICATION WITH THE EAST.
Mr WALLACE rose to ask a question of the president of the
board of control on the interesting suhject of the proposed corn-
municatiun with the Eastiodies by the Red Sea or by the Eu-
phrates. The East India Company had agreed to take mea-
sures for establishing an intercourse by the Red Sea, but they
had failed; and on Friday last the directors had put up a notice,
stating that the mails for April, May, June, and July might not
be carried forward to India. He did not impute blame to any
quarter, because he was ignorant whether it was deserved ; but
he wished to press upon the government, the East India Com-
pany, and the Postotfice the propriety of taking inamediate steps
to forward the correspondence. He would take leave to say
that he much feared the attempt to establish a communication
by the Euphrates would not succeed, but he had better hopes of
the route by the Red Sea. It was a strange fact that one
hundred millions of the king's subjects had no direct communi-
cation with Europe.
Siff. O..I4IIIHOUSE would say a few words in reply to the
hon, member- The notice of the court of directors was given
to pima% mistakes, which they feared would occur if it were
dstaYed. The chairman of the smart of directors had proposed;
aad ho (Sir J. C. Hob/muse) had concurred in it. As tu
Steam cosimunication with India, he feared that there was too
much reason for the fears expressed by the hon. member. The
East India Company had not taken the steps expected from
them for a direct communication from Suez to Bombay, by the
Red .Sea; but, by private letters from Bombay, it_appeared
kliat ast eaan-Loat waa sea fraizi- ta W4O-01: 011,440-424.0. f--,
July; hut it had already twice attempted the passage, and had
been obliged to put back. It was his duty to mention that last
week the board with which be was connected and the directors
of the East India Company had come to a determination to
build two large steam vessels to be placed on the Bombay sta-
tion; but the real reason why more earnest steps had not been
taken for this most useful purpose was a regard to the dilapi-
dated finances of the company. The object was, however, nee
of national importance, and should receive every attention.
The hon. n.-anber had thrown out an opinion as to the failure of
the route by the Euphrates. What might be the issue, he (Sir
' J. C. Hobbouse) could not pretend to say; but he had his opi-
nion, and the last advices were favourable. Ile had letters
from Aleppo and Antioch, both of the 19th of June, stating
that all difficulty had been remove: as to the conveyance of
stores, and that some of them had reached a place on the road,
and that they were on the road across the mountains to Bete.
Bet supposing this expedition to succeed, it would still be the
duty nI the king's government to take steps for the regular.na-
vigation of the -Red Sea. The house watt. perhaps, aware that
the southwest inonsoens blow there for. two or three months of
the year with so much violence that gentlemen whom he had
seen were of opinion that no steam-boat, of whatever size and
power, would able to face them. He wont,' assure the hon.
member that all possible attention should be'paid to the subject,
and the admiralty had issued orders to the rear admiral on the
Malta station to make a full investigation of the facilities in
that quarter, and a report was shortly expected from him. He
hoped he had given the hon. member a full, if not in all respects
a satisfactory answer.

OFFICE OP LORD CHANCELLOR.

Mr. LYNCH could not allow the session to close, without ask.
ing ministers whether they had come to any determination, and
what, respecting the office of Lord Chancellor and his judicial
duties.
Lord JOHN 11.csssta..—I am obliged to the honourable
membet, and to the house generally, for the indulgence it has
shown with respect to this arduous question. Ministers have
been, of course, unwilling to come to any decision which might
be thought hasty or inconsiderate, and hence much of the delay
that has occurred • but I intend to propose in the next session
a measure, by which a permanent judge for the Court of Chan-
cery will be appointed [cheers.] I need not say that the clues•
tion of the separation of the political and judicial functions of
the Lord Chancellor requires to be examined with great care,
and weighed with extreme nicety; it may be necessary to make
a provision for an additional judge; but that and all other parts
of the subject call for mature consideration [cheers.]

REDUCTION OF CUSTOMS' DUTIES.
On the motion of Mr. P. TnomsoN, the house resolved itself
into a committee.on Gustains' Duties Acts.
Mr. P. TuolusoN then proposed a resolution, imposing a duty,
of sixpence per' pound upon coffee, the produteof the East'
/tidies or Sierra Leone.

. . • • • . .•, ,
Mr. Ewa RT approved of .thechange, rind urged that the duty
on East and West India Sugars ought to ho equalised.

Mr. Trio e\Etv wished that the duties on sugar should -be
equalisA. There was On reason why East, India sugar should
pav a higher duty than that from the West
The resolution was then agreed to.
Mr. C. P. TuomsoN then 'proposed a resolution, that the
duties on ashes, the produce of the East Indian, should be
equalised with those on the same article from other countries.
Agreed to.
Mr. C. P. ThomsoN then proposed that a duty of ld a bushel,
be imposed on the importation of rice from the coast of Africa:
There was now a difference on the duty on rice from British
settlements and from other places; it was, however, hardly
possible to tell where it was produced, and the present arrange-
ment was attended with great inconvenience.—The resolution
was then agreed to.
The house then resumed, the resolutions to be reported to-
morrow.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRTMAND)
On the !notion of Lord Jon,: Itusse.u., this bill was read a
.bird time and passed.
Several other hills were forwarded a stage.
The house adjourned at 12 o'clock.