The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-12-24 00:00:00

THE CHURCH AND THE DISSENTERS.

The following letters contain so much good sense that
we have taken the liberty to transfer them to our columns,
and we earnestly= beg the reader to favour them with an
attentive 'perusal. The first is from the Manchester
Courier, and the other two from the London Times :

"TO MR. HADFIELD.
" SIR,--I am sorry to find you making yourself exceedingly
officious through the medium of the public press, against our
national establishment. You, as a dissenter, in conjunction
with many of your brethren, discover a mean and intolerant
disposition. before you presume again to take up your pen to
censure that church to which Britons, and especially British
Christians, by whatever name they are called, owe so much,
look at home, to your own heart, and that section of the church
of Christ of which you profess yourself to be a sincere and true
member. Strive to approve yourself to God, then to reform
the evils existing in the little society to which you belong, before
you attempt to reform, with your puny efforts, a national
church. You seem to be spurred on by -an almost unbounded
desire of popular applause; wishing to be thought somebody by
the world at large, as you believe yourself to be not half a mile
from York-street, You must not forget how you were con-
fronted to your face at the Collegiate Church some months ago,
by Mr. Fletcher, when you were setting up your voice as fhe
voice of dissenters. You have not as yet arrived at sufficient
celebrity to set up yourself as the oracle of dissenters universally.
There are, even among dissenters, some few who are zealous
and warm friends of our national church, viewing it in its go-
neral interests, and its influence upon society—though for the
most part the spirit of dissenters is a spirit of the greatest into-
lerance. Among the aggregate body of dissenters and dissent-
ing ministers, too, Independents, Baptists, and Socinians,
bigotry of the lowest character reigns. 1 hey cannot speak well
of our national establishment in any of its branches, liturgy,
ministers, or members, though it has been a blessing to our
own beloved country, and to other countries for ages—a church
which had martyrs for its founders, and within whose venerable
pale some of the most heavenly-minded, devout, and learned
ministers and members have lived and died; men who, in an
eminent degree, were possessed of a spirit of piety, of love to
God and man; and who esteemed it to be their duty and privi-
lege to yield obedience to the laws that be. But when we are
assured from observation and experience that dissenters cannot
speak well of their brethren who differ with them in some minor
points of doctrine or discipline, we are not surprised that they
should manifest the same evil disposition of backbiting and
slander towards our national church. Here let me ask, what
do you mean by dissenters demanding their rights ?'
They have liberty of conscience, and can worship God
when, where, and how they please ; and as Doctor Ire-
land, in a sermon on the claims of the establishment,'
eloquently remarks, addressing himself to dissenters, ' You
experience that toleration which paganism would not grant,
and for which the primitive Christians would have return-
ed their heartfelt thanks and praises to heaven. 'While, there-
fore, you enjoy the privilege of conscience, learn to respect the
rights of that government under which Providence has placed
you ; but know that to demand a share of political power from
the hands of the sovereign, whose prerogative you continue to
deny; to irritate a government which would rather leave vou to
repose ; and then to upbraid it with persecution, is neither po-
litical loyalty nor Christian obedience.' fo me it appears you
make yourself officious, and wiite in such high-toned and swell-
ing language, as dissenters demanding their rights, because our
modern Radicals seem to act upon that principle—most of whom
have not the fear of God before their eyes, therefore not of man
nor of the 'powersthat be;' but whose whole soul seems to be
set in them to do mischief and to propagate insubordination.—
Rather, sir, study to please your Maker, than to make yourself
busy hi interfering with politics in such a manner as would pro-
duce anarchy and confusion. Do you and your fraternity take
heed how you put your unhallowed hands to our church esta-
blishment, lest you have cause, hereafter, to repent. Where
there are pious and talented ministers in the establishment, the
churches are well filled, and, in some instances, crowded; and
if churches universally were supplied with such devoted and
Christian ministers as occupy tile pulpits in some of them, we
should heal very little about separation of church and state,
&c., and I am convinced there would be comparatively few dis-
senters. With respect to the union of church and state, I am
decidedly of opinion that it is absolutely necessary to the main-
tenance of social and civil order, and the support and promotion
of religious liberty. If the Church of England were not the
state religion, there should be another substituted in its place ;
but looking round amongst dissenters of all denominations, it
appears to me that the excellency and orthodoxy of its liturgy,
homilies, and articles, and the loyalty,. toleration, liberality,
learning, and increasing piety of its ministers and members,
give it a claim tb preference. I revere and highly esteem the
church establishment, with all its faults.
" I remain, Si:, your's respectfully,
" A DISSENTING MINISTER.*
"Manchester, December 10th, 1833.
• The name and residence of the author of this letter have been
communicated to us.—ED. COURIER. "

6440 THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.
" Sir,—Observing in your paper a discussion upon the Dis-
senters' cause, I wish to correct your statements upon this sub-
ject. It appears somehow or other to be taken for granted that
the Dissenters, one and all, are for the measures put forth by a
certain class of Dissenters. I speak the sentiments of our body,
and I indulge the gratification which I think has not been de-
nied, that we are the most numerous class of Dissenters both
here and in Amerka. However much we may wish for changes
for the benefit of-religion, we disclaim the idea of encroaching
upon the national establishment. I, for my part, am too well
versed in days of yore ever to expect a church more tolerant
than the establishment, and while I can worship God in my
way, under my own vine, and under my own 'fig tree, none
daring to make me afraid,' I think it not too much in return to
abide-by the majority, particularly as I know both in parlia-
ment and in tha,world this is the only practicable way to secure
peace. I could +mention some denominations under whom I
should lie afraid to venture my protection, if they were the
dominant party. Alien there must be, and I think that coun-
try happy where the lamb can lay beside him. It is absurd to
suppose that there should not be a ruling power—one which
-embraces the opinions of the majority, whatever those be. But
I fear, Sir, from the tone of some of the Dissenters, that they
have left the.old school of their forefathers, and are become too
political. I fjr, if some of them were to get an the top of the
tree, many of tis would have to repent it. I know, also, many
Baptists who disclaim connexion with those who urge exorbi-
tant demands, and I repeat, for the sake of my brethren, that
we are decidedly averse to that attack which some of the Dis-
senters are meditating against the establishment.—l am, with
respect, yours, &c.,
" A MINISTER OF THE WESLEYAN
" City, Dec. 19." METHODISTS.

" TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.

" SIR,—At a time when so much clamour is raised against
the Established Church, and that not merely as to its ceremo-
nies and form of.government, but in regard to its connexion
with the state, I s=enture to suggest that much good might be
done by reprinting (perhaps in an abridged form) Warbur-
ton's Alliance between Church and State.
" It appears to me that the enemies of the establishment,
whether designedly or not, altogether mistake the real ques-
tion at issue. They seem to forget that the people of England,
in erecting their national church, acted in a civil capacity no
less than in a religious. Their character of churchmen, or
episcopalians, did not necessarily put aside, or throw overboard,
their character of citizens. They considered a public establish-
ment of religion as a matter deeply implicating the welfare of
the state; and in that belief they were backed by precedents
from all ages and from every clime. Entertaining such an
opinion, what more natural than that the form under which this
establishment was to exist should be episcopalian, for none
other was known in the universal church ? 'these two points
settled, the mode in which such an establishment should be
supported, so far as pecuniary means were concerned, was a
matter of easy arrangement, for a church revenue already
• existed, derived in great measure from the private bounty of
pious individuals. '1 hese and many other points, both as to
doctrine and .ceremonies, were arrangements which naturally
flowed from .that one grand principle on which all religious
establishments' in free countries rest—viz., a rational con-
viction.that the alliance between church and state is a matter
of great advdr4tage to the commonwealth. This is a grand
truth, and upon, it the Church of England ultimately rests.
Until the majority of the nation shall e convinced that they
have all along bd\en rnistaken on this fundamental point, the
ravings of the optortents of the church, whether infidels or
dissenters, their d .lainations on the iniquity of the unholy
alliance,' will be only so much sound and fury, signifying
nothing.'
. " I am, Sir, your obedient servant,
" A CHURCHMAN.
" London, Dec.

QUEEN'S THEATRE, CHRISTIAN-STREET,

UNDER THE SOLE MANAGEMENT OH MR. IL BsvERLIc

THIS present TUESDAY EVENING, the 24th instant,-
the Performances will commence with an entire New
Nautical Melo-Drama, interspersed with Combats, Dancilf-- -
and Chorusses, called
THE SEA ! THE SEA !
OR, THE HAPS AND HAZARDS OF THE OCEAN CHILD.
After which, the laughable Burletta. of
HOOKEY WALKER.

Hookey
To conclude with asp did Melo-Drama, called
GUSTAV US.
Places for the Boxes may be taken daily at the Box-office,
from Ten till Three o'clock.
Doors to be opened at Half-past Six, and to commence at
Seven preciely.
oßoxes, 35.; Pit, ls. 6d.; Gallery, 6d.—Second Price at
Half-
price at Half-past Eight.—Boxes, Is. 6d.; Pit, ls.; uo sec au
price to the Gallery.