The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-11-21 00:00:00

on his ow!:

sooner

think the Council has some
a to mind what a busy, meddlin

ho meddles

CCilleds -.in, V+ ..ith other people's
ar more than his own, and who is the author of the
te m
11,45 e s'4r, Moore brings forward, may say about my
„-" el; by Mr. Moore should have brought forward
.
it4tvii,-riFe on a case which was totally distinct
. from it, I
LePaoa:"Y at a loss to conceive. When he got into the di-
'Rh that the last Council,
Irose to ask what it had to do
k.?„4, business before tne Council.
i,,"(otif-ItAmLEY-MoortE.—Well, and I coin,
;" ",P, that dilemma now; and if the Council will listen
shall get out of it too. (Hear.) lam not going
'11; anYthing on the tittle-tattle of any person
\\'t'oll. H. LNWRENCE.—If Mr "
at the last Council
''it at the -

did anything

ititright not to go into irre
'lltatir,4eß to ask the
u?
N °vJt
itt.-4A.Yon.—s I think Mr. Moore has obtained bis
lltt :7 al4111.1.;1-MooRE.--I said that such a charge was
i)ot,"„Poti , 441 now prepared to prove my assertion and
kin •loqs evidence of any person, in particular, for, so
'do "58 it, that it was in every newspaper of the
T
Die NII3,4ANcKEn.—No doubt it was.
title 1-I,:l°R.—Sir Thomas, you percciv..
bald to ;'.41,1 EIORNBY.—I think Mr. Moore is quite en-
Wbi Plain what he stated, so far as this—that he
co intention of saying that any charg4
uld be substantiated ; but I must ap
AilThether the words " unjustifiable c-
tor7or• Moore upon the last day?
h4ed• "RAMLEY-MOORE.-1 said then that it was un-
H
ouch. -oRlvny.—l do not recollect it. You said
eljim it w„ Charge had been brought, but whether you
I,ltt '8 an unfounded charge is more than I can re-
AO"l„e.M. ,
-`'"R.—The Town-Clerk says he recollects the
orou_nrotinded."
kTlt).9. SON.—I think that, in every spirit of fair-
es, Moore ought to give such an explanation as ne
Of
'l4t d urtNEß.—i move that weroceed to the business
It krALY. p
'4tetl M EY-OORE.— If it be admitted that what I
Theo COrreet, lam done: if not, I must beg permis-
14i r, 1114:v.:IR.—It is admitted.
(I RANI LEy-MooßE.—lf I have vindicated myself
4.1011.—You are perfectly vindicated. (Her
e~o
tiversation here dropped.

s of this kind

Town clerk whether there is any

admits it

was made
cal to the
Etrge" fell

ttb
lhC N.°'N OF A MEMBER OF THE DOCK COMMITTEE.
the tlo4'oolt said the first subject on the paper was the
the
(='! a member of the Council to be a member of
ij.4ittee for the affairs of the estate of the trustees
/+iar•lblalZferPool docks upon the vacancy caused by Mr.
rfh ;41114i
em a member of the Council, having resigned
ei
(3( a member of the committee.
e s .
rot_ urro., jun., begged to propose Mr. Simon
110. u'an to the office.
`llikr,,°l-,YzsrEux seconded the nomiation, which was
-4151 Y adopted.

kte
OP CHAIRMAN OF THE DOCK COMMITTEE.
4 tleetioklrOlt said the second subject on the paper was
kitt, saidl of one of the thirteen
hcou. ncillors, members
0 committee, to be the c airman of that com-
-4lplArn the resignation of Mr. Sands.
chi -"lrnltx said he had much pleasure in proposing
krni office of chairman, believing
th eY-Moore to the
41'6,_ that gentleman's
suitableknowleof
fort docks and
tat eircunistancesthe was
wes
itieeoliaoN seconded the nomination, which
81:4 c". • would allow
16.111 --klitßy-Mooae hoped the council
bar :34y that he highly appreciated the honour con-
tqt,te' ti,au that it should be his earnest endeavour to dis-
Qtlr "e duty faithfull, and for the general interest of
Tit e
teases at large. (Hear, hear.)
Nktle ArilrAluoE AGAINST SANDS, TURNER, AND CO.
qt an "'OR said, that if the council would then
6Nit. alderman to take his place, he should be happy
e 1 until the remainder of the business had been
`lt., 1, of.
ilder kltkEß said, it rested with the Mayor to appoint
ba Arriaan to the chair.
Att1.1111,"311 called on Sir Thomas Brancker..
t;tlAkivt"ra'a,s Navin,been understood to decline, there
hava, calls for Mr. Alderman Moon ; and Mr.
derev,r. InC accordingly taken the chair, the Mayor
vr
„,wrR wished to say a few words, before
er trhee
.
tirii-°Ceeded to the next subject on the
ot1;4!;11711our which had gol_einLoadcirc circulation, and
heardu it whis-
,ethWLOrlit contradicted. H
Lace and himselfdi had investigated the
NtilOai°'t Mr.eSeands, and that it was in conse9uetpecye
Vrecl toltivestigation being unfavourable (no,
ICleliathhe
01,1vsise Mr. Sands upon the subject, an.
\'‘14:11014`114 absented himself from the council. This
kh f ttrue. (Hear, bear.) Their advice to Mr
toed °unded solely and absolutely on
_the
Aij;lak s the most decorous and. dignified position ht
itreelvith regard to the election of mayor, andtwaosf
;i4), Lieeetive of guilt or innocence on the r
Nl4tr44.llee.theY expressed over and over again, in giving
41-111 C bee
entire abstinence from the justicel
of the
Nt.r ti °tether. (Hear.)
4t),71, keE fur
confirmed what Mr. North had
. just
l'4111i°)(Itaell„" it was material for him to do so, for without
rtio hey on the last day in favour of Mr. Sands•°-
a, ilnee, creditable. If he had gone into the in a
Nd
ki tuoutht Mr Sands culpable,it would have
hl,B I:irt to. vote for h.North
f 4tl lath unstained from the investigation. and }
A. eh— a.l-,

It would be for him to explain the circumstances
which led to the charge at this particular time ; and, there-
fore, he (Mr. B.) would take his leave of Mr. corrie for
once. The second head of the motion, as to tht-mode in
wbicti the Town-dues were collected, it would be for Mr.
Corrie to explain, or it would be for the Finance Commit-
tee to explain what was the tariff connected with the
Town-dues. With respect to the management of those
dues, it would be for the committee to inquire how those
dues had been collected, and how the whole business con-
o get mv- nected with that department had been conducted. Hay-
thus briefly stated the objects of the committee, he

should next show how he thought the committee should
be composed. And, first, he would state, on what he

Idered good ground

Le from that commit

s, the reasons why he would ex-
Finance

ee every

treble grounds, he would exclude two of its members.
With regard to the exclusion of the Finance Committee, it
would be remembered that Mr. George Hall Lawrence,
at the last meeting, stuck up or stood up for a privilege
yielded on all occasions to that committee, and main-
tained that the whole question of the town-dues devolved
on the Finance Committee, and appealed to the Town-
clerk, who confirmed that view ; and therefore Mr. Aikin's
view of a special Town-dues Committee could not be
carried into effect on that occasion. If this were true that
the town-dues department—the management, the arrange-
ment, the looking into, and the husbanding of the town-
dues—had been the duty of the Finance Committee, he
might fairly argue that the Finance Committee were in-
competent to take any part in the present committee,
because they themselves were on their trial. (Hear, hear,
from Mr. Isaac Holmes.) If the Finance Committee—
he was now going on the evidence of the chairman of that
committee, and confirmed as that was by the Town-clerk—
if it was the duty of the Finance Committee to attend to
this department, then it would be for them to prove—first,
that they had not exacted from the merchants of Liver-
pool more than the law had given them in the matter of
town-dues.

Mr. LACE rose to order. He submitted that the ques-
tion of title was being opened, and that such a question
ought not to be discussed in the way that Mr. Bushell
was discussing it. The object of Mr. Bushell was to have
a full and fair investigation, but surely it would not tend
to such an investigation if they were to go into questions
of title. He called upon the Town-clerk to say whether
the discussion was judicious?
Mr. BUSHELL said he was not going to pursue it.
Mr. GRIFFITH said that Mr. Bushell's course was
simple : it was merely to appoint a committee.
Mr. BLACKBURN asked whether Mr. Bushell would
allow him to suggest if the best course would not be to
appoint a committee, without going into any discussion
at present? It might be premature, with an imperfect
knowledge of facts, to discuss ; and, as there would not
be any difference of opinion about the committee, the bet-
ter plan would be to appoint them, and refer the case for
their consideration. (Hear.)

Mr. BUSHELL yielded to the opinion of the Council in
the matter. He could assure the members that it was
not his wish to limit the corporate revenue, but that, on
the contrary, it was his wish to increase that revenue if
be could. He was showing, at the time of the interrup-
tion, that he would exulude the Finance Committee, be-
cause, as they bad the management of this part of the
revenue, it would not be proper that they should be on
the Special Committee. With regard to four members of
that committee, he would exclude them upon this ground :
when Mr. Currie brought his charge, the Town-clerk, it
would 'appear, laid the indictment. The Mayor sum-
moned the grand jury, of which he became the chairman.
Upon the statement of the late chief-magistrate, and
upon the fact itself, he thought, of the charge being now
before the Council, it was shown, that the grand jury,
for so he must term it, found a prima fade case against
Sands and Co., and so brought it to the Council. If they
did not think there was a prima facie case, they would
have ignored the bill, quashed the indictment, and the
Council would not have heard a word on the subject.
Mr. HODGSON thought the advice of Mr: Blackburn
very good advice, if they could come to a proper under-
standing. If, for instance, the motion should be adopted
at that stage, without entering into the case—for there
would be a full opportunity for discussion afterwards—
and if any of the Finance Committee were proposed as
members of the special committee, and Mr. Bushell stated
his objections to them at the time, the council would get
on much better. _

Mr. BUSHELL said, it could not have escaped the acute
observation of Mr. Hodgson, that in moving for the spe-
cial committee he was taking on himself a great responsi-
bility, and that if be excluded certain influential members
without giving good grounds for their exclusion, he should
he censurable. It was therefore necessary that he should
justify himself.
Mr. BLACKBURN said, that if the council should adopt
the proposed plan, then the council would justify Mr.
Bushell. It would be hardly possible for the latter to
enter upon a subject of this nature without saying some-
thing offensive, and offensiveness ought to be avoided.
The CHAIRMAN thought that perhaps Mr. Bushell had
justified himself so far, and that it would be well not to
bring objections against any member who was not likely
to be appointed.
Mr. BUSHELL said they were becoming so exceedingly
refined and delicate, that he really knew not what to think.
(A. laugh.) Was he, then, to take the responsibility of the
course he was pursuing, or was he not ?
Mr. H. HORNBY thought Mr. Bushell right, inasmuch
as that gentleman had to justify himself to the Council
and to the town also. (Hear.)

Mr. BUSHELL said that, after the kind advice which
had been given him, he must really pursue his own course
after all ; and he could assure the Council that he had not
come there without having first considered that course at-
tentively. He was, then, proceeding to state, when in-
terrupted, that he had an objection to four members of

the Finance Committee in particular. He thought the
late chief magistrate did not exercise that sound discre-
tion. which certainly, so far as he could judge. eoverned