The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-02-08 00:00:00

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18-1 . THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.
1 • - ' t.s. ...e
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without coffveying to the' blind of the realdoet.r isnoJ
to: ill h
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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. were really a reformed, house—if justice to Ireland was really in. ansseetto the charge. of excluding Catholics from offices, read over
a congltsatr,of appointments made by the present government, of which
saptrea7ntsylaattlinong,, wahsaotpCpaicseerdotionttehnedbeadl it to signl ;1'
their object, they would not refuse it. Wear.) He wanted a
a aryl gepropartonhwere of Catholics. We regret that our limits
Tlthnolmeaasns'
(Continued from page 181.) committee of that house—he desired that that declaration of preclude us from giving
,is statements and. his speech at greater length.
1 - - country? Ireland. must continue thus to be governed by war with the pee le of Ireland should' be modified.' (Loud. Colonel DAVIES supported the motion, .
force; and
,tf there was a time, when it was not so governed cries of Hear.) Let the ministers give them a .strong and Mr. ROEnuciE called upon the house to pause before they Cicero here declares himself of the same opinion with )t 'lll
'I
for these 700 years, I do not know who has discovered it.— emphatic declaration of intended justice to Ireland (re- . joined in the rash course of the right hon. gentleman, (Mr. brother, an anti-ballotist,—expressly avows his opinio Th
Stanley,) and not to render themselves parttes to his hasty on principle, that nothing can be better than opert vol
The least attempt at resistance to oppression in Ireland is but }rented cries of hear)—and if then they applied for' force,
ing : and then says, ' but we must consider what is oro iTh
! the signal for another slaughter, and yet more force is called he would support . t em. But the Speech promised no- designs.
tica e, as well as what is desirable.'• He agrees 00 1,,.•
I for. What is the cry, but a cry for blood? If •you want to send thing. (Hear.) There were still several points untouched— Lord 'Aeriiono,,after some observations upon the system of . oe
more soldiers to Ireland, you want to give more opportunities there were the prosecutions, to which he would not then ad- petty sessions in Ireland and the jury bill, concluded by as-
openblvoting ought to be had : but doubts whether it cid .1g
lbr shedding blood. The right hon. Secretary has already con- vert, and •20 other topics on which he could say much, but he sestingathat as it was necessary the King's sublease ehouid• be
Ouefed Irelaud by force; he has conquered it with foot and would abandon the intention. He knew he spoke in vain—he protected, it was necessary to adopt sonic new measures for be had. Now. again we ask, is it not monstrous to soot net
favour
auman. r
oi.
ballot. as one,
whose opinions and desires were au'
horse and marines; he has turned the barracks into stores for felt he made appeals which would fall unheeded on their ears.. that purpose. .
tithed articles, in spite of the people of -Ireland. By force he He should now know of what that reformed house -Was corn- 'Mr. Clair wished hoknow whether it was intended, however
has been successful already. Why then talk of adding to the posed—he should see the high and independent members for modified' the system of,collection, to continue the tithes? The ... ela
force in Ireland ?Is agitation the cause of the crimes which I England voting for "more power.'' It was of no use his mere removal of SOME of-the minor grievances would be as use- A. part of the question is, however, yet behind. Cice, ia ,
have mentioned, or is it the conduct of the government? pleading. before a reformed parliament in behalf of Ireland— less as it was unsatisfactory. whose disposition to a temporising policy, is well knot (ire
Nor is agitation the cause-of the outrages of the Whiteboys, it was vain lifting up his voice in her cause, for he was sure his
which are proved to have been committed by the lowest and answer would be a laugh at himself, and a laugh at his country. Mr. LAWLER hoped the•hou.inember fOr Dublin had satisfied to have constituted the weak point in his character,-4 the
the house of the inadequacyof the reforms proposed. He' hoped unquestionably, in many acts of his life, bend to crca' ,1?,1
stances-very considerablv,—and his desires in refereot the
poorest of the people. It has been proved that these outrages He had done—he thanked the house for the patience with
.which
have ,no connection ' with any. political . measure whatever. lie had been listened to—they were the last hope, the last refuge to see an immediate seParation between the church 'and the
state.
to ballot, may be quoted as illustrative of this fact. '' \
o gy
There was no period, 'not even the present, in which White- of his country. To them he could only look for relief from the Mr. H. GRATTAN concluded some strong remarks by observ- e ie.
boyism was more prevalent than in 1821 and 1822. Was that a autocracy of the right hon. gentleman; from that sic vole, sic ing, that if Ireland was to be kept, as he hoped she would, the do not maintain the honesty or manliness of his con& 1.;:t
~
period. f agitation? On the contrary, upon the accession of jubeo, stet pro rations voluutas, to which his country was sub- bond of connection must not be red coats. (-Loud cheers.) in this particular,—but we wish simply to explain it a, li
George IV., as Well from his professions on other occasions as jected. Whether government was to be administered by the Mr. E. L. Buesvaa then moved an adjournment which was was, in order to give clearly to our readers the solutii' d
of this disputed question, whether he was or was note f,.
his promises of doing something for the relief of Ireland during right hon. gentleman alone—whether all was to continue to be carried; and the house adjourned a few minutes before twelve
his visit to that country, we determined to' wait till we should concentrated in his self-sufficiency—they must decide. Seven o'clock. .. 0 ,o,
see what would be done for. us 4pontaneously. And agitation centuries of misrule had been endured by Ireland—government
..
ceased entirely for about two- yeats;!yet-during that time the in- had been carried on on no other plan than that Of Tamerlane; ously nothing: and ballot would be scouted by J. T., 1
' . surtectiOn act was put in force, in consequence-of Whiteboy out- and the most outraeous cruelties had been inflicted on a pros- Ebe liibtrpoei Altanbarb. the rest of its admirers, were it to be accompanied 07 Ity,
rages in lid Tess t tan 11 counties; and-at the time when the Ca- trate people. For` hlmself, he (Mr. O'Connell) laboured under
regulations nullifying its practical purpose. • ig,tt,.,
Week Association was first formed.lB counties were in a state one calamity-a-that of a supposed personal hostility to the right
•of disturbance; before the Catholic AsSociation had been in hon. gentleman opposite. Had he, could he have any such FRIDAY !HORNING, FEBIitiARY 8, 1833. Now we shall show, that Cibero did yield a raucto d.
full agitation eiglaeen months every . county in Ireland was ' feeling towards him ? They had never come together, and he ' consent to the outward form of the vote Sy ballot, so I°ll. r
as it was accompanied by regulations which secure e
res,
exempt from its operation. Now Lwould call upon those who denied any cause for such feeling, audits existence. His were
Yesterday, a highly respectable and influential meet-1
are suchactvoiates for shooting my countrymen to contradict public grounds. He looked at the accumulation of crime—at ...... 0 s the parties interested, the means of knowing which to 1-)1
the individual votes were given.
lob_ r gentlemen' of this division of the county was held
that fact. I call upon them to account,for that circumstance. the quantity of blood increasing as it flowed' in hii unhappy
Seven centuries of oppression have taught the nation to watch country, and he still found him the lord of the ascendafit, die- at Newton, JOHN ENTWISLF, Esq., of Foxholes, in the
the signs of the times, and when they see any prospect of ob- tating to the ministry the - measures to be pursued. These chair, for the purpose of forming a County Conservative " Thus," says he, "I have stated the law of votive to
free to the people, known to the higher classes. NI, (,
-4. '-'
twining legal redress, they give up au .other means by which things he wanted altered. He asked tor the real grievances of
Leigh, Sir
Association. Letters'were read from Lord Bradford, the
involves this decision, that it would annul all those 117, • it.
' -they at. other times seek to batter their condition. This is the Ireland to be redressed, and then he would go any lengths the
which were afterwards carried, using every means to t•F„, ' 4,4.
• Honourable Mr. Wilbraham, Sir Robert Holt
• , cause why Whiteboy outrages and agitation never exist together.. ministers might require. (Hear, hear.) The learned gentle-
Thomas Brancker, and others, approving of the object of
teal the vote, forbidding to inspect the tablet, to logo' "''
of, or to address the vote." .
Bali
tile
When Ireland shad have no grievances left, then Whiteboy ' man concluded by moving, as an amendment, for a committee
the meeting. Mr. Holton, of Holton Park, and other .
outrages wig cease, aud agitation wilrecase. What new cause 'of the whole house to consider his Majesty's Speech. '
is there for sending force to Ireland? Has not every tithe Mr. Coalmen' seconded the amendment. „ gentlemen of the county, addressed the meeting at some
meeting been already put down by bullets and bayonets? Per- Mr, iticHAit DS said the honourable and learned member for length; committees were formed for ' each district of What have we here ? A nominal admission of tio
under the pressure, as he has himself alleged, of necessit I,il.
maps Ireland is not yet sufficiently oppressed. He, at all events, Dublin had complained of what was mentioned in his Ma- the county, and other necessary business gone into; after
with a, virtual stultification of it. He will admit, he se ' '''-'
• would agitate as long as the law permitted it: He would agi- jesty"s Speech, he (Mr. Richards) had to complain of an omis
which the following declaration was unanimously adopted,
tate, until they passed a third Algerineact 'Then, indeed it ' sion in that speech. He expected that the condition of the
and.. signed by all the gentlemen present:— that votes should be
:given by tablet—each tablet hasi° ,(i'v
a name or letter inscribed upon it, and all being cast l'
- might chance that the Whig Reformers would succeed in put- labouring classes in this country would have been referred to,e:,s,
We, whose names are hereunto subscribed, declare
gather
which
the same urn—but he will not admit of 0 : t
ring an end to agitation. (Hear.) They bad not, however, and that an inquiry would have been recommended, with a view
yet passed that act; (cheers) nor should they do it speedily, for to allevisate, if -not entirety to remove, their distress.. (Hear.) our fixed determination to maintain the tried and ancient
law prevents way-laying the voter at the poll, 0, op.,
he would fight them inch by inch,' day by day; hour-by hour. The people of England looked to that . house to relieve them principles on which the constitution of our country is
there obserYing what suffrage he gives. The Mary tt
(Hear, hear.) I will present to the house such a catalogue of from their present condition, and he trusted that an investige-
founded ; and we hold ourselves pledged to resist all
law made the pasages, along which the voters were°
.-Itt)
grievances as will justify me in appealing to them, whether, if tion would take place as to the causes .si hich had led to it.
measures by which the necessary connection between the`_ pass, narrow, that no one might be therefor this purpolj 4,1
these be continued, an Irishman has not a right—is not bound (Hear, hear.) He did not impute to the government any die- measures
Cicero expressly stipulates for the presence of 51' t'
to agitate. Pirst, in the list of these. giievances, we have to regard of the feelings of the people of England. With respect established church and the state may be severed
.or re . . ,
complain of a magistracyunconnectedbyteelingeorreiigion with to the motion before the house he would not vote against the ]axed; by which the dignity of the monarchy may be im-_ persons, to whom the citizens may, voluntarily of coin • .±,..,.
ri ' '''
the people. ,It is true that laws have been passed with a view address, as he was anxious to support the ministers. (Hear, hear.) paired, or its existence endangered ; by which the privi
show their tablets. Now; suppose that we had suck, • LI:
to protect the poor in cases of injustice on the' part of niagis- He condemned the conduct of the hon. and learned member loges of the 'House of Lords, as an independent branch
regulation--could bribery not be carried on ? "A, B, ' ''''''‘
trams, but these laws have assumed so many forms, and been for Dublin, for promoting the cry of a repeal of the 'Union, by
of the legislature maybe virtually annihilated, or the de-
D I will give each of you .£5 to vote for me E, "4 . til'
subject to so many alterations, that no action could possibly be attacks upon the government and this country. He considered
mind, I shall be at the poll, by the box, and you will 61,' :teis
successfully maintained against a magistrate by a poor man, the great cause of the present state.of Ireland, to be the want of liberative powers Of the Commons House of Parliament
I need not detain you long in• proving this. I have been anti- poor laws and of a demand for labour. (Hear, hear.) Eng- become fettered or controlled, as we are convinced, that
open the palms of your hands, and let me see that $1" - tit
on tine united and energetic support of these authorities eihated in my argument by the right hon. gents. on the opposite land had on every occasion evinced- the greatest generosity
have got the right letter written on your tablets, fir fe4- 741..
Ale. -It was pert of their stock in trade while in opposition; towards Ireland, and he considered it-unjust to attribute to the depend the continuance of social order, the security of
they always promised that this was to be rediesSed when they peOple of England a Want of 'sympathy-in the sufferings of Ire-
property, and the interests of religion." of accident—l know, you are all honest fellows, but sti, 't",,
came into poaer. The proceeding of Magistrates in petty ses- land. The hon. member then refeiied to the imports and ex- to
sibes gives them . a complete impunity for every act of oppress ports of Ireland since 1801., down to.this period, and contended it is just as well, for fear of accident—you will be pal i
immediately afterwards." Could intimidation • not .
i ~,
THE ADDRESS.—The Speech- from the throne was on
Pion exercised against the poor. -•1 heir. deeds-are not the acts that her trade had considerably increased since the Union of
carried on ? "F, G, H, I, you will all want work tie ha:sl
of an individual wit of the s3oard—and they are sure to support the two countries, and that the importation of the luxuries of the whole, as our' readers will have seen, decidedly
i each other—so that a poor man has no means of redress. Those life into Ireland had increased, which was a sure test of its in- Conservative. winter, and I can give it you, lam sure you will all Cd 4,1.
for Mr. T. but I shall be at the poll, by the box, and I I tutitii,
things, to those wino are under the operationlof such laws, are creasing prosperity. He did not think that the present govern-
kin one point, indeed, some suspicion was excited; it
so afraid of mistakes or of your being cheated by 500 e
matters of vital hisport; and still more so when we consider that meat had acted unkindly towards Ireland, and so satisfied was .
the jurisdiction of those magistrates has been extended, not he upon that point, that he would willinglytalte a portion of the was by .the passage in which the case of tine two branches
of the other that I first take vd he
party,will a peep at
only to'crimirial Matters, but to trying the titles of the property obloquy attached to them by-the honourable member for Dub- of the united Church were spoken of as distinct. But ~,
ta lets, as you go up—and there will be lots of work' 0 a 4,
of the poor. The Trespass Act has been made use of to usurp lin. (Cheers.) a Lord Roden, in the House of Lords, ascertained that the '''
good wages."—Such, such, Mr. J. T., was the ballot t! , it'a •
this power. .1 may
,be told that the poor man has his redress Mr. STANLEY said he felt, that as-a -member of the govern- sense of the passage was such as none could dispute. It
•
Cicero proposed to contend for—to contend for ? no, D'i ~I',c‘
by application' to an equitable jurisdictien and keeping posses- man it was impossible that he could remain silent after the
did nct, he presumed, import that any principle was to to;
tolerate, under the pressure of a necessity whielt,' ".1
sion: but I know a pour man who was fined for such a proceed- eloquent (for such he must allow it to be) and forcible invec-
ing., It is frac the statute says a magistrate must not try rights; tive (for he should not call it argument) of tine honourable and be applied to the consideration of the one speech, Which
called irresistible.
hut; a poor man cannot pay the costs of law.- Ido not accuse learned member for Dublin. It certainly did not surprise him, was inapplicable to the case of the other, but merely
As we do not contemplate again troubling our read - gill
4
ail the magistrates of injustice, nor even a matierity of them; that the hon. member with had just sat down, should have en- that from their different circumstances, it would be ne-
on this subject, we have been somewhat particular in app,
Ido accuse a very large and a very influential class among tered into some calculations for the purpose of answering a cessary to discuss them separately. But their funds - • r
plaints Cicero's views ; but we would*observe that, aFi hi
them. There are thirty-four stipendiary magistrates in Ire- speech which he might naturally have supposed would have
mental
. rights, .we are assured, are in each case alike to
be_pre.served.
land who are appointed by government, and out of these Lord been made' by the honourable and learned member for Du
—b-all, his opinion is summed up in those few words of •
Anglesey' appcanted twenty-six; and not one of them was a lid, rather than that which had actually fallen from him. .
neral prineille •:—" Free to the people—known to rt; t'illiie'
1 --" Our ballotists want a secret vote.
ec?
Catholic. There were also thirty-two sub-inspectors-of -police, (Hear, hear !) . The-honourable member, of course, had a It is not clear what definitive measures will be
, adopted, but information has been transmitted to us, higher. a!°"•
will just consent to give, in name, the privilege of a S -d r''
only one being a Catholic. With such'a magistracy, if suffered right to expect that on au occasion like the present, when the
which indoces us to hope, that the Government do not con- i_
sLiti to subsist, was there not round. enough, for agitation? legislative union or the separation of the two countries was
vote, attended, as we have shown, with regulations wit' 0,
The hon: andlearned gentleman next proceeded to animadvert placed at issue' by' the' King's speech, the honourable and
led
mplate any such dangerous innovations as those we were
afforded to the intimidator or corrupter of voters all # • 0%1.
on the administration of justice in Ireland, stating that for 20 learned member for Dublin, who had represented the repeal as
facilities of the open system.
years the patronage of the Mich in Ireland had been inva- the one and only. mode-of redressing the grievances of Ireland, to apprehend. But we understand that, while they
riaeiy. exercised with reference to political opinions. When who had- promised the people of Ireland•that before June twelve- have as yet. no definite measure of Reform to propose for , set
But let us take the few words with which Cicero el. '1", Ale
mile Irish people saw this,.--that although the judges could not months there should be a Parliament sitting in Dublin,,-who England, it is their intention as regards Ireland, con-
tinuing to the Established Church the entire amount of the discussion, as clearly and indisputably establish Pie
be rewarded in their own persons for their political bias, they had pledged himself that that alone could relieve them from the
K.,
were rewarded in•the persons of their sons or their nephews,— yoke of the sassenaclos that his view was to retain the influence of authority • -',.,
the emoluments it ought by law at present to enjoy, to
Property 110w-ever' much he may euphonise it by eSti,' at .
it was quite impossible that they could have any confidence in ' Mr. O'CoNemee.—No.
which may at irt ebe madeChurch t
property
r issueai)e rt
y from (
at
pre-an . • '
the admihistiaeon of justice in Ireland. Another cause of corn- Mr. STANLEY—NO! Surely the hon. and learned gentleman apply
improvedtlne funds
ing it, leaving to the voters the liberty of showing ty, --• •
p aint was the jury system. (Hear, hear, hear.) The noble lord would not deny that .every word, every. syllable, which management o
tablets to good and respectable men at the poll. 1,17'
sent extremely underlet,) to the purpose of gradually opposite had promised them last year* that they should have-a spoken,—every inflammatory harangue by which he had stirred
it were that they might exercise an effectual control 0c
removing rates and vestry cess. Mr. Stanley made an
• hill on that subject, similar to that which. had been passed with up the- passions of a too easily excited people, whilst he fella-
vo.tes thereby, why should it be at the poll ? The 11.' ri
reference' to England seven or eight years ago. That. promise, ciously allowed the' words' cenciliation and peace to drop
admirable speech, in which he appeared in his true
might himself tell it elsewhere as well, if it were to ,
however, had been broken, • and whya At•present the Crown from his lips, had tended to create in the people of Ireland
matter of pure spontaneity, and wholly unconnected f''''
Lawyers had absolutely the power of selecting the individuals this feeling—that as long as they were subject to the foreign character, as a defender, and an able defender, of theo
of whom the juries were to be composed.' great evil yoke there was no hope of remedy for their grievances, no menaced but revered institutions of his country. We
which has been opened for the any personal motive , e ,
was the. -.jury system (Hear, hear.) The evil was, that alleviation of What he was pleased to call their grievances—no trust, that the subscription
the Irish Clergy, will not be forgotten sor consequences to himself. - • ,
he winds up by saying :—" Thins, by my law, the an) ,i . 0,;
(.::v
these grand juries had now the power. of taxing their neigh- amelioration of what he designated their degraded state, and. immediate relief of • •
boar without their neighbour being represented. They were that in repeal alone, andirt thethroWnig oft of the bonds of .ante of freedom is given, the authority of respectable fr -li •
Inltthwisatsow-n. expected
sons (not, be it observed, the appearance of their alit ace
Y '
selected by the sheriffs; and- such a: batch of Conservatives as the Saxons, any improvement of the condition of Ireland
that the House would divide on Wed-
had this year been appointed by the government,' had never could be hoped for. (Hear.) The government now came tolit y') is retained, matter of quarrel is removed."
•, 1•3•,•
before been witnessed. Only one Catholic gentleman had been the lion, and learned member, and told him before the assembled nesday night, and that probably not morethan sixty,if Dl' P
• appointed to that office, while it had been filled by nine tenths people •of Great Britain and -Ireland that his panacea was one so many, would support Mr. O'Connell's amendment. We have not time to go farther into the subject'
tli ''
/ i,,,,
we still maintain the general truths, that the sentun.,--.0 i ' t,
of the Protestant gentry in Ireland. ' Another great grievance which; with all the power of government, and- with, he believed,
was the Lay Corporations. Look at the Corporation of Cork, the cordial assent of the people' (without which the government Lcelius are nearly those bf Cicero himself, as it inalA, e.,
which had at its annual disposal no less than -1:10,000 ! •It was could no nothing,) -should be . resisted to the death. ( Loud CICERO ON THE BALLOT.—Once more we press tlii- seen in the passage which J. T. translates, that he sre•vi son
exclusively a Protestant Corporation. So' it was with the Cor- cheers from the mlnisterial-benches, answered from part of the question on the attention of our readers, and, we trust, of Lcelius and Cato, in their respective treatises, as' of -
poration of Dublin. The Corporations,appoi
' •
nted the Sheriffs;, opposition.) They -told him, that considering his proposition
or the last time. The immediate subject of dispute is, least, semi-fictitious characters; and, still farther to ti Iv-1•1'.
the Sheriffs selected the Juries; so that in 'Dublin all grea would be the death-blow of the empire, they Who wished for its be it remembered, whether or not then pinion of the great opinion of Cicero, we would refer to the oration for PI - are
state state questions, and all questions having reference to taxes and strength abroad, for• its united' councils, and united enterprise,
statesman whose name is placed at the head of this arti- cu" s, c. 6, when lie speaks of the ballot as a mode of ',.:/ii ' 1.,',4,.;
property, are determined on exclusive principles.- Was this not whenever it might be called upon for eaertion, they would be
. a grievance ? Was the Vestry Cess no grievance, by which 75 traitors to the kingdom and to the duty which they were ale, was in favour of secret voting. ing introduced for the purpose of enabling the voters
Protestants in one parish, possessed the palsies.' of punishing, by called upon to exercise, if, with all the means in their We go at once to the point: and refer to the passage, do according as they liked, but to promise accordin'k
taxation, 12,000 Catholics ? Why should the Catholics be corn- Power, with all the resources which this em.pire placed at on which J. T. grounded his assertion, taken from Cicero
.they were asked."
, pelted to pay the• Protestant clergy? Whyshould the Catholics be their disposal, they did not oppose the separation. (Cheers.)
..- t de. Legg. 111. c. 14, 4r seqq.
compelled to build• Protestant churches? • Before the ascendancy They called !upon the honourable menther to meet them ; •
. After having•examined with some minuteness the ver-of the Protestants in Ireland, there was a superabundance of they affirmed their proposition, and they challenged the hon.-,,, - , 4
THE DISTRESSED CLERGY OF faELAND.—We have t° et
churches in that country; but-the -Protestants had sold them, and, learned member to negative, it. Instead of doing so, sion of this passage which appeared in the Albion, we
or let them go to ruin; and now they called upon the Catholics however, the hon. and learned member had risen and made are compelled to state, that we never saw any version of knowledge the receipt of the finlowing liberal donations foil:,
relief of the distressed Clergy of Irehint—most earnesti:!:•`:
to repair theb consequences of their neglect. and- misconduct. a speech, which he must be permitted to say, was addressed any
-passage in any language, so full of gross and mon- again call upon the friends of our National Church inalei
Was Were any agitation equal to this ?•• Look at the rem era- less to- those within than to those without the walls of that strous mistranslations. Yet, even these mistranslations backward in affording -that relief' which is so uro.eutlf .'' ,: ,0
rioffia
fides of .the church, and say if anything- could be more mon- houie; containing 'the usual declamation relative to the indif- and will be eendered doubly acceptable by its earl dist ,)
1 strous—if any effect of agitation could be se'pernicious. as this faience with which the affairs of Ireland were treated by the —which., were the scene of controversy any other than
The Rev. W. Rawson.
house, which never received a' more convincing refutation than the columns of a newspaper, we should at once expose inm ler
.• system. The living of the brother-in-law of Earl Grey had The Rev, W. Dalton .
Veen:esti/noted to bring in nearlyao,ooo4l-nnually; there were by the patience with which the house had listened to the whole detail—are not altogether sufficient to obscure the mean- A Protestant Clergyman lO 0 0 ;r• J.
96,000 acres of ground belonging to it. Was this-paid bv-neem- of the hon. and learned member's observations. The hon. ing of Cicero,_ or to sustain the interpretation of J. T. A Welsh Clergyman
hers of the Church of England? No_; the- Presbyterian and and learned member had accused the government of injustice For what is the brOad principle on which Cicero takes his A Protestant Pastor lO 0 ° lr• P
the Catholic, worshippers in a different form,. were compelled towards Ireland, charged them with indifference to the suffer-
ground? "I will have the votes free to the people, known Mr. ALDERMAN WAITHMAN expired this morning
by this roost monstrous system to pay this: diVine. They were ings of the people of that country, stated a long catalogue ofAil Vel y• J.
eight millions, and there were one million of Protestants, at grieve.nces,,. some of which ministers .had already announced to the higher classes,"—for such is the right translation o'clock, at his house in Russell-square. Mr. Lvall,
• W
least it was said so. Well, there might be one million, but he t
t ieir intention of remedying; but with- the question of the die- of the word optimates, which has no proper reference to hles and Mr. Lloyd the banker, are all mentioned as cal r ,
dates' for the ' .' —L d ' irdard, 0 r• W:
city representation. on on Stand
did not believe it? Was it to-be borne that they were thus to solution of•the Union, with respect to which- an opportunity respectability as exclusively connected with character.
barometer fell c.
• be treated? What he wanted to know was this—was the church offered of obtaining the test of piriali Opinion,: by means of Now, nesday.
even this is enough. For what is the object of our &rot; m. During Saturday afternoon the baron at f v. NT
•tour •
to be cut down? (Loud cries of hear.) Ile (Mr:O'Connell) the reprengentativee of England; ay, and -of the represents- ballotists ? Single—that the votes may be free to the 101, and indicated the approach of a severe gale- Tow4l,
wanted to know, .were tithes to continue ? (Mai, hear.) He tives of Ireland, with that question lie had not ventured to
wanted to know,' was there anything in agitation so vicious as grapple in the legislature of the united kingdom, although -, ,
voters and for this end, that they may be unknown to evening the wind began to
teat system ? The Turks even, cruet and harsh as they were, he had told the people of Ireland that they should have a the higher classes. What was the object of Cicero .
s and increased during the night to a complete storm. W 4, Sc;-
despised such oppression towards the Greeks; they never in-: parliament in College-green by• next June. (Hear,. hear.) Twofold—that they might be free to the peOple, and from
mentto state, that a sloop, supposed to he called the Bar) '• Gri
Dundalk, was driven on West Hoyle Bank in the coat 4,
blow fiercely from the westwelk. Nie,
his ttieinldaennot atte admittedow the. learned gentleman_throu4h all
siseed on their suppOrt of the Mahometair faith. - The' ministers,. known to the higher classes ! • And yet J. T. can quote of the night. As soon as the wreck was observed, the Points, tr. P.
statements, as h the position of the state of Ireland. Of
hawever,,ot England were worse than the' 'reeks,' 'He meant the various crimes which had, disgraced it he . did not wish to read Cicero as a friend to the principle of the ballot! And Ayr life-boat put off to the spot. One man, named Tho,„
to detain•the house a little longer on the inbjeet of absenteeism.. over the catalogue ; but he couldanot omit, noticing. one or two pointsooii M r
the enlightened press can open its columns to admit such Cartridge, was found alive on the wreck, but his compel:o 0 .
1 When speaking of crime, he wished they would look to absentee- of the result of agitation. In the county of Kilkenny, during the last
1 ' ism—to tue rents that were constantly going out of the country.. •• •
twelve months, there had been 32 murders, 34 cases of arson, 519 unhappy • , , ,„.
delusions! Hard words we do not wish to use— three in number, had all perished. Several large ships
close iu with the banks when the storm commenced; bu 11.'4
Would they litigate that ? He would tell them they, could not. burglaries, 36 eases of oul&;,lungecattle, 178, illegal notices and serious for we readilA OW/1 that J. T. is a good humoured contro-
, sasamsaio.ltsoriiide,olatti managed to keep a good oiling, and run in yesterday mars' ,) • WI
He did nut say that he attributed all these evils to his Majesty's ttmh
orii,;,
than t;0 y, during the
attemptsntat and actual versialist. ut we intreat him to remember, that if he in safety, r, re
present governinent. Although the Whig peity in all times perpet'rations of, murder;
ten been. 626 burglaries, 115 instances of malicious strives to gloss over carelessness or want of knowledge
were more deeply stained with political offence towards Ireland' astruction of praiaarlyi and 200 of seous assault. It was
not
of the subject, and to impose upon uninstructed persons, .
than any other party in the state, yet the .members of his Ma- denied that there-had been afearful increase of crime ; the list which , TO CORRESPONDENTS.
jesty's government were nut responsible for any but their own he had read contained 'but' a very
,small portion, embracing only u
W 0 seeing a number of classical names strung toga- / . ~., Foic Mr,
acts. But when they called for more power, they, by that act, tine cases of Whiclli:notie
.liarl be,en
sgiven to .the police, and whic ther in his articles, with such bold pretension intermixed, Ire intend, fin- the future,the Pto give _ ARLI AMENT AIVY IJE •
constituted only ii. v'ery small portion of the offences committed. • in detail as much as ussible. ' 1
astoptea all the crimes of their predecessors. Instead of call- In proof of this 'it' needed OnlY be said, that in 'to detect order the will adopt, without scrutiny, conclusions without founds- . , P. .v.j.,
iii s tor fresh power, let them do justice' to 'lreland. (Hear.) perpetrators of this, oe these crimes, rewards had Nen Offered to the tion, lie is answerable for the errors which he thus pro- .'ll appear an our next.
MERCAToR 'az . , , : :Ite.ut ,
Why not begin ? Why not postpone the threat and do justice amount of no less than £12,010, only two of which had ever beenwe ae • 'tett
We 'are obliged to Ptii KILOS jiff • his communication, but .. ft . „ o
P tes ,
to Ireland; and then, if agitation continued, if insubordination claimed ; for so complete -is the organization which these midnight . . think it desirable to make the Pvtblic Charities •a subject of '1 ilwa.
wowed itself in midnight plunder and outrage, call out for marauders have attained, that the victims of their oppression dare not But we have not yet done. We say that, on princi-
troversg, through the medium of the press, asio,
a force." Wait for this—try it, and then; if ittaiied, make the coin lain ; the are.compelled to suffer in silence, because they well pie, Cicero is
against theballot.' We refer, for proof, to , ' • t---tehich oil. . Itesot
lo that those who pressed them. had the power of death in theirF. T. remarks on the dirt state of 31i)or-street ee
exeitse, arid he would support the, cry.' ' Hear, hear.) He hands, hould they be provoked by any annoying measure., was a-passage which John Thomas has himself, though very quires to be noticed by th! • proper aut.tority 0 't eme .14 • Gov
i have 1 r se e
wanted nothing but justice for Ireland, and jiistice. this country this, then, a state of things in winch they were to be told ihat the inadequately, translated. Ti 72, .. of DEBATES
has Ma i rtis
bad never rendered, to •her.. That
_speech which had been de_ laws were sufficient, where there was a prevention to the laws being After Quintus CiCero in Tyre ...Jpolt the ii-ARLIAmENT compelled
the dialogue, has intimated •
,
livered was a prototype of one in the reign of Elizabeth, when acted upon They Ead trusted the laws as long as they could, but ~postponement of several Communications.
• aif tire
Raleigh slaughtered the garrison of Limerick. The cry of matters were now mealy getting beyond . the law, and it became a pp ,
his opposition to the ballot, and Ills fear, therefore, of T.,
..RRATU • / L •
iii in Ite • irerpool Stapdar . .
d 01` Fob. 1, Art. 2, Pe _if t f
(I' " d " not or o
power hail ever been-the cry Of this country-a-and under it were amdaotpterd.of
.*l.eu(e,y-ghlet seine e?,trao td,iinary raerimlaboenmscheiovuclad
for!)e being..at issue with his brotber, the great statesman pro- milt in their thoughts, but mu tin. 1
~ ur min s, rea , ,
committed those English crimes which were written in the blood war. ; this tacta eras ninnAt•tiin andha yetiP theed Ministers .were 'seeds thus, according to J. T. :—" You shall not do that, in t eir thoughts, but in their woree. 11
e a,
of Ireland. In the present day the same part was acted—the desired not to ask for powers to check this disposition... l'he Quintus, for I am of that Opinion of which I know you 'Roo:
•
scene was somewhat changed—the actors were different—but ' 'lint' and learned. gentleman had said " give us relief and .we'will * in Union Buildio 'Lt
always were, that nothing would be better in voting,than LivEßPooL.—Printed on Tuesdays and Fridays, e
their conduct was substaunally the same. There was no real assent to dui la4ving the power," ay if the grievances complained of . ' I Published at No. 7, High-street, Exchanit i ef,„,
re caused_ solely by an English l'arliame.nt. But was this the.case? the voice. But we must see whether that can be ob- •John Street, am
amelioration—no change, nor any intended, 'as was proved i ' ;v-5- stationer, of No. 7, Anson-street. Orders_.4. .
n Were not those grievances in existence in the time of the domestic • ~ • SAWEG FRANCEI-, ,
tained. he -Wes4rs Nvcl-4,1
Advertisements are ids() received in London i. , . _ ,
that Address which he had designated as • bloody and brutal. legislature ? He would say, let it he the task of a British legislature d Mr. lianifs.,, . ,
What he wanted -was a General Committee,' that that Address to examine into substantial grievances, but without ever 'suffering the " The voice" is, perhaps, a term likely,—we do not 8., co., Warwick-square, Nowg,ate-street; ur
1
aught be duly considered and discussed hue by hue.. .If that I)°we-r they possessed to slip from their hands.—The right hon. gent. say intended—to pass muster, as a word in a sentence,
Fleet-street.
. ..