The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-04-02 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

than of advantage to debtors, and he had no doubt that when
the measure came to be fully discussed by the legislature, it
would surely be adopted. He had another bill to present, the.
subject of which he would then simply mention. It was in-
tended to effect an alteration in the appellate jurisdiction of the
privy council; and he hoped ere long that a similar alteration
might be effected in the appellate jurisdiction of their lordships'
house, which he could assure them was a subject of the gravest
importance, and one which required the most serious considera-
tion. If he might be permitted, he would just state the subject
of a bill which he intended. to introduce .before the, Easter re-
cess. This bill would be directed to effect some important re-
ductions in certain law offices—namely, the Six. Clerks-office,
the Report-office, the Register-office, and, several others. It
would also effect the abolition of some useless and cumbrous
places connected with the Court of Chancery, to the amount of
tour or five and twenty ; remedy delays in proceedings, and
abridge expenses. In short, the bill he proposed to introduce
would impart greater justice and accuracy to the proceedings of
every branch of the Court of Chancery. The following would
be the list of the reductions in the offices to which he -had al-
luded the Six Clerks-office a saving of £29,000 would be
effected, in the Report-office, a saving of £4,300; in the Regis-
ter-office of 1:10,500; in the blasters'-offices of V 1,157 ; which,
with the further fees now received in those offices, to be abo-
lished and compensated from the suitors' fund, amounting to
£14,000 would make a total saving of £68,957 a year. He
would say no more of the contemplated measure than this, that
much confusion would be prevented by it in the administration
of the proceedings of those different offices.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM wished to know whether the esta-
blishment of the local courts under the bill presented to the
house would supersede the jurisdiction which the local courts
at present in existence exercised; and also whether that bill
would affect the regulations for empanelling juries ?
The LORD CHANCELLOR, in answer to the last question, was
understood to say that the provisions of the bill would not affect
the sheriff's right of assembling juries. 'With regard to the es-
tablishment of the courts, that would very much depend upon
circumstances. _ _

Z'he bills were then read a first time.—Adjourned.
FRIDAY.

The Royal assent was given by Commission to the Exchequer-
bills' Bill, the Transfer of Aids' Bill, the Sugtir Duties' Bill,
and several private bills. The Lords Commissioners were the
Lord Chancellor, the Duke of Richmond, and Marquess of
Lansdowne.

Lord WESTERN presented petitions from parishes in Kent,
praying for the better observance of the Sabbath.
Ihe Bishop of DURHAM presented a petition for the better
observance of the Sabbath, from a parish in the diocess of
Durham.

Lord LYNEDOCH presented a petition from .a parish in Kin-
cardineshire against slavery.
The Earl of HARI; owISY moved that an humble address be
presented to his Majesty requeitins his Majesty to direct the
archbishops and bishops to inquire into and report the names
of all parishes in their several dioceses which, on account of
their small population and value, they might think it desirable
to unite to some contiguous parish.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY expressed his entire ap
proval of the address, which was then agreed to.
On the motion of Earl FITZWILLIAM, certain returns rela-
tive to corn were, after a short conversation, ordered to be laid
on the table. .

The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from St. George's,
Bloomsbury, for the better observance of the Sabbath.
The Earl of RODEN presented a petition from certain united
parishes in the diocess of Cork.
The Earl of Wiciu..cw presented a petiton from a place in
Ireland, praying for a convocation of the clergy to be summoned
to consider the proposed measure of church reform.
Earl FITzwiLLIAM said that the clergy did not exclusively
constitute the church, but that he and the noble lord opposite
were as inn& members of the church as the archbishops and
bishops. Ile therefore thought that a convocation consisting
of the clergy solely would afford but imperfect means of ascer-
taining the sentiments of the church.
The Marquess of WESTMINSTER rose to present' a petition
which he considered of great importance, and deserving their
lordships' serious attention, though he wished to guard himself
against being supposed.to concur in all the statements contain-
ed in the petition. The petitioners all of whom were Welsh-
men, or intimately connected with Wales, complained of cer-
tain abuses in the administration of the affairs of the church in
that portion, of the kingdom. They stated that considerable in-
convenience was felt in consequence of the bishops appointed
to sees within the principality and a portion of the inferior cler-
gy, being ignorant of the Welsh language. They stated that
a large portion of the inhabitants of Wales were Dissenters.
and they attributed the great 'extent .of diSient which prevailed
there to the fact he had just adverted to,—the state of ignorance
in which many of the clergy stood with respect to the language
of the people whom they were appointed to Superintend end
instruct. lie most sincerely wished that but one language was
spoken and understood throughout the whole united kingdom ;
but when different dialects existed.; he thought it.but right that
ministers of religiOn should be able to speak the language of the.
people among whom they resided. The petitioners a4a. com-
plained of nun-residence on the
part 'of the clergy, and the
number of pluralities existing in Wales, and they stated that
some very large and populous districts were left with nit incum-
bents. They likewise objected to the very small stipends which
were allowed to the curates, and they prayed that all these
abuses might be corrected, and particuiarly that no clergyman
should be appointed to any benefice in Wales who was not per-
fectiv conversant with the Welsh language.
Time Bishop of BANGOR would take it upon him to affirm that
there was no clergyman in Wales ignorant of the Welsh lan-
guage, and that the service was read in that language in pro-
portion to the ignorance of the audience of the English. It was
tine he was himself ognorant of Welsh, but then.his chaplain
was not, and that answered all praCtical purposes. It was wrong
to assert that the indumbents were non-resident. Englishmen ;
for there" Were only three English-vicars in his diocess, and they
had studied the Welsh language. As to chirge against the
Welsh bishops, that they spent the revenues of their sees out of
the principality, he would only observe, that he had yet to learn
that bishops had not as much right to spent' their incomes where
they pleased as any noble lord in that house to spend his rents
where he pleased.- The right rev. prelate then entered into a
lengthened statement iu order to show that but few non-resi-
dents existed in his diucess, and that the Welsh language was
employed universally where the English was unknown. Since
he had become bishop of Bangor but six livings had fallen in, of
which three were appointed by Lord Brougham. lie would not
have confirmned these appointMents were the parties ignorant
of the Welsh language.

The Bishop of ST. ASAPII was surprised that the noble mar-
quess. (Westminster) had.so iinplicitiy pinned his faith to the
statements, or rather misstatements, of Mr. Johun's, of Ches-
ter's, pamphlet. One assertion of that gentleman would in
itself show the worth of his assertions. lie .stated that Christ
Church,' Oxford, received £4,700 iron' its tithe property in Ban-
gor. Now, the fact was, that the- entire tithe property of that
parish was not half that sum, and of that half ,Christ Church
received but one-fourth: (Hear.) Kr any (falsehood) disco
omnes. lie was rather surprised that the noble marquess, if he
had any regard for.the preservation of his own prbperiv, should
support attacks a...,,ainst that of the, church. He had' no-. fear
'that the seine sort- of spoliation would soon be recommended
with regard to the po3sessiort f luyinit, ? Wear ) Since lie
had succeeded to the itiocess which he then held, be .had been
obliged to lev out a very great deal of money for different pur-
poses connected with the state of the church property, so much,
indeed, that he never, during his life, expected to be able to re-
place it;
.and with regard to the disposal, of livings, he could
say that in no one instance had he . ever made presentations of.
livings except to individuals who were iu every way, fitted for
the appointntents.. He. had .twelve to dispose of, and ten of
them he had given to curates,77nien of the most deserving cha-
racter, and who had performed their duty' in au exemplary
manner. The first appointment he had ever made had been to
a gentleman who used to visit St. George's hospital in the per-
formance of his sacred dutiei••--the administering of consolation
to the patients confined there, and he could not 0-e the houSe
a better evidence of his qualification for the appointment than.
was contained in the following 'anecdote :—The. clergyman in
question happened, a few years ago, to be proceeding across the
fields iu the neighbourhood of Hackney, when he was attacked
by four men, who demanded his money. He was,on the point
of surrendering all the money lie had about him when one of
the four stepped forward and declared that he would not allow
him to be robbed
.of a single farthing,—that he recogniZed in
him the good clergyman from whose advice and consolation he
had derived so much benefit when he was ill is the hoipital
(Hear, hear.) The right rev. prelate then t)roceeded, at some
length, to contend, that the circumstance of rectors. tn Wales
being Ignorant of the Welsh language was not accompanied by
any inconvenience, for almost all the children in Wales under-
stood English. He concluded by declaring; that there existed
no just ground of complaint against the Welsh clergy, and,
therefore, regretted that the noble marquess should have sup-
ported the unfounded allegations contained in the petition he
had presented. He fancied, after what the noble niarqucss had
heard, he would change his opinion on the subject..
Lord KING observed that the remarks of the right rev: prelate
(the Bishop of Bangor), had been directed rather against the
speech of a noble lord in another place than against the -peti-
tion before the house, which he conceived called for au answer.

The right rev. prelate. who had last addressed the, house had
thought proper to make a very severe attack upon the author
of a work to which he (Lord king) had odcasionally referred.
He could assure the right rev. prelate, however, that his denun-
ciation was, in that instance at least, uncalled for, far thaindi-
vidual in question was a most respectable man, and one to
whom the charge of publishing " gross falsehoods" was utterly
inapplicable. The noble lord condemned, in strong terms, the
practice of spending, the revenues derived from. tithes out of the
parishes from which they were collected. Those revenues ought
rightly to be appropriated to benefit the particular laariihes,—
to support the respective ministers,—and those who diverted
them from those purposes were anything but the real ministers,
,—anything but the shepherds of the flock. He contended that
the allegations contained in the petition had not been satisfac-
torily refuted, and that there was strong ground for cOmplaint
in the manner in which livings had been filled up in different
parts of Wales.
The Bishop of ST. ASAPH disclaimed, on his own account,
and he believed he might also on the account of his brethren,
the imputation of having made improper appointments. In
fact, he had used the utmost precaution in ascertaining the cha-
racter and qualifications of all those persons to whom he had
presented livings. This he could say, that he never gave one
away on the ground of the individual on whom he conferred the
appointment having the least possible qualification for the post.
Lord KING said fie should not have troubled the house with
another word on the subject had it not been for the remark
which had just fallen from the right rev. prelate, which he was
aware was pointed at him (Lord King) individually. That re-
mark was founded on a paragraph contained in some low news-
paper, which insinuated that he (Lord King) had conferred a
living on a gentleman because he was " the least of a clergy-
man?' He could assure the house that this was a base calumny.
The individual in question was a highly respectable man, and
in every way qualified for the performance of his sacred func-
tions.

The Bishop of ST. ASAPH said that he was glad he had given
the noble baron an opportunity of contradicting so insidious a
statement.

The Marquess of WESTMINSTER contended that the allega-,
Lions of the petition had not been satisfactorily refuted, and ex-
pressed his entire dissent from the doctrines advanced by the
right rev. prelates who had addressed the house, with regard to
the appointment to livings in Wales of individuals who did not
understand the Welsh language, and to the expenditure of the
revenue derived from tithe out of the parishes from which it
was collected.

The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.
Adjourned.

HOUSE OF comraoNs.

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 27.
DISTURBANCES (IRELAND) BILL.
The order of the day for the consideration of the report on
this bill was then read; but after some conversation between
Lord Althorp, Mr. O'Connell, the Solicitor-General, and the
Speaker, it was agreed that the bill should be recommitted, in
order that certain amendments, which the government pro-
posed to make on different clauses of the bill, should be proposed
in committee. In the course of this conversation Mr. O'Con-
nell stated that he would make no opposition to bringing up
the report: but he would certainly take the sense of the house
on the third reading of the measure.
The bill was then recommitted, and the Speaker left the
chair.

Several verbal amendments were proposed and agreed to on
the first, second, and third clauses.
On the fourth clause,— . . . .

Mr. Shaw proposed an amendment on which the house di-
vided:—

Ayes 123
Noes 44
Majority for the clause -79
On the 10th clause,
Mr. STANLEY announced his intention to move a proviso
on the 14th clause, preventing any sentence of transportation
by courts-martial from being carried into effect without the con-
sent of the Lord-Lieutenant.

Mr. O;CoNNEI,L said that such a proviso would remove a
considerable portion of his objections to the present clause.
After a few words from Lord Althorp and Mr. Stanley, the
amendment was agreed to.
On the 14th clause,
Mr. STANLEY moved the following provisos,—that no for-
feiture of goods or chattols should ensue on any conviction be-
fore a court-martial under the act, and that sentence of trans-
portation by courts-martial should not be carried into effect un-
less the consent of the Lord-Lieutenant or other chief gover-
nors of Ireland were first obtained to the same.

The provisos were agreed to.
On arriving at clause 19,
• Mr. SHAW proposed that the clause should be restored to its
original form, so as to give magistrates the summary power,
after calling upon a meeting against which a proclamation had
been issued to disperse, to arrest those persons who remained a
quarter of an how after having been so ordered to disperse, and
to' imprison them for three months.
Mr. Stanley, Mr. C Fergusson, Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Shed,
and the Solicitor-General op.posed the amendment, which .was
finally rejected without a division. and the original clause as it
stood agreed to.
Upon the question being put, that- the preamble be brought.
up M,
r. O'CoNNELL proposed the introduction of a proviso into
the bill suspending the powers given by it to the Lord-Lieute-
nant upon a dissolution of parliament, should a dissolution oc-
cur during the continuance of the act, until the assembling of
the new parliament, in order to afford protection to the election
meetings that would be necessarily held in the intervals.
Mr. STANLEY Opposed the clause, on the ground that the pe-
riod between the dissolution of one parliament and the assem-
bling of another was the one, of all others, the most likely to
afford scope and Opportunity for political agitatiOn.
The committee then divided, when the numbers were—
Ayes 72
sues 214
Majority against the Clanse--L-142
Mr. O'CONNELL then proposed a clause, providing that when
a writ was issued for a county or borough during the. sitting of
parliament, the powers of the act should be suspended during
the issue of the writ.

This clause was agreed to.
' Mr. O'Coisimiu, then proposed a clause, to the effect, that
no meeting of a corporate body, in pursuance of its charter,
should be deemed an illegal meeting. Without such a provison,
he.contended, the Lord-Lieutenant might suppress a meeting
of a corporate body as an illegal- assembly.
This clause was also withdrawn.
The preamble having been .agreed to, the. house resumed, the
feport was received, and the bid ordered to be read a third time
on Friday next, with the understanding that if discussion
should not terminate on that day, the house should sit on Satur-
day, for the. purpose of bringing it to a conclusion.
L'ord.ALTnonP then moved the order of the day for the house
resolving itself into a committee of supply on the ..

ARMY ESTIMATE f 4.

Sir.:TnnN Honnousu, moved." that there be employed for the
service of His Majesty at home and abroad, ,from the Ist of
April, .1E33, to tho 31sClgarch, et),,ii9 nien. To this vote
Mr. HOME moved. an amendment, which was negatived with-
out a divisian' and the original motion agreed to.
The house then resumed and. the report was ordered to be
received to-morrpw. The-coininiyee. to sit again on Friday.
Mr: CLAY yiesented a petition numerously signed from the
inhabit-MAO.. POlditr, . prAying...the.house..ta extend- protection
to the children employed in fa4o,lics.
The other orders of thql.day.Were then disposed of, and the
house adjourned at half-past 2 o'clock..
TRURSDA Y.

In consequence of the balliits.foi7select. committees to try the
merits of the petitions complaining of undue, elections and re-
turns for the boroughs of Portarlingt.on and.,Carricklergus, the
gallery was not opened until 5 o'clock. The petition against
the return for the southern. division.bf NorthUmberland, which
stood for a ballot this day, was, we understood, withdrawn.
Mr. EWART moved for leave ,to bring in. a .bill for giving
prisoners in criminal, cases a full defence by counsel. He
should defer making any observations. on the measure until
the second reading, and the more particularly as the Under
Secretary for the Horne Department was not able to attend in
his place.
Mr. POULTER.obj,ected to the.bilL . He suggested to.the hon.
member for Liverpool, that instead of giving prisoners per-
miision to make a full defencq by counsel. in criminal eases,"it
be better to take away from prosecutors the pOvier of addressing
the jury by counsel,, and thus both parties would be placed.upon
an equality.
Mr. O'CONNELL thought that this bill would introduce a very,
beneficial alteration into our criminal jurisprudence.
Sir T. FEEMANTLE was inclined to think that prisoners
would not derive much benefit from the proviiions of this bill,
for if Counsel were alloWed to addresS the jury. on their behalf,
the prosecutor's counsel would have a right to replvi .and to
press every point of evidence against them—a practice from
which the bar of England generally, if not universally, abstained
at present.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL did not rise to oppose the motion
for lease to. bring in this bill, but rather to support it. The
theory was certainly in favour of it, and in cases where a