The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1848-05-30 00:00:00

THE WATER QUESTION.

THE POLYTECHNIC SOCIETY.

Yesterday evening the adjourned meeting on the water
question (which had commenced on the previous Monday)
was held in the theatre of the Royal Institution, and the
interest excited dren a large and respectable auditory.
Mr. Beereierr, councillor of St. Anne's Ward, took the
chair, and after a few opening remarks,
Mr. GRANTHAM, C.E., was called upon to open the
discussion upon the adjourned meeting on Mr. Dwyer's
paper of last meeting. Matters, he said, since he undertook
to do this had crowded upon him, which rendered the task
he undertook more onerous than he expected. The so-
ciety felt every respect for, and acknowledged the value of
the exertions which the body of gentlemen constituting
the Health Committee had devoted to this subject—one
foreign to their business avocations ; and he wished to
place the society clear from any imputation of going with
any popular feeling, which he keen- was prevailing against
the plans they had in view. The society wished to inves-
tigate the question upon its real merits. An inquiry had
been going on by scientific men, and he had to regret that
the report of the gentlemen engaged upon it had not as
expected been yet laid before the public, as le and others
might have derived information from it. He had, at the
last meeting adduced some statistical facts relative to the
Water Companies, which as many gentlemen were then
present who had not heard them, he would recapitulate.
(The statistics he furnished, stating that the Companies
had received little or no interest on, the outlay for the
first years.) He then brought forward other comparative
estimates, showing that the present local wells, with an ad-
ditional one would supply the town for years, without the
necessity for incurring the outlay laid down for any of the
new large schemes of bringing water from great distances.
He assumed that 3,000,000 gallons, with an addition of
20 per cent., or 600,000 gallons, for courts, watering
of streets, &c., would be required to make the supply
ample; also, 60a000 gallons for cleansing sewers, &c.
The present works, if improved, would, he believed, yield
7,500,000 gallons a day ; and he had also estimated the
expense for a new station at £68,300. For sewerage, and
the watering of streets and cleansing of courts, he was
in favour of employing salt water, as equally suitable,
and they might have a reservoir in an elevated part of the
town, to which a small engine would pump it. some of
the present mains, which if the new scheme were tcego on,
would be removed or rendered useless, might for this pur-
pose be available. He combatted some oLjections made
to the use of salt water, as tending to spoil gentlemen's
clothes, as futile. With regard to supplying manufactur-
ers and others, who employ condensing engines, they in
general would prefer pumping their own water. The cost
of the smallest "monster" schemes proposed would be
far more than that of availing themselves of their imme-
diate resources. With the former, the people would have
to pay, as be showed by figures, a large amount more..
The new plan, in place too of costing half a million;
might cost double that sum. It would be impossible to
reduce the rates, if so large an addition was to be levied
upon us. He read an abstract of a paper he had that
day from Mr. Simpson, showing that large quantities of
water could be obtained from the upper sandstone rocks
in this and other adjoining localities. He next touched
upon the demand that had been made for a constant sup-
ply in all the pipes, but expressed his opinion that this
was necessary only in some of the great mains, and that
the service pipes should have cocks for regular and fre-
quent supply only. Courts could be well supplied by
cisterns which the works would keep always full, and that
they were not provided (for the cost would be but ls. 6.1.
per house additional per annum), was solely the fault of
the landlord, and not of the companies. Some of them
thus supplied, let for 265. a year more than those opposite
which were not ! He then showed, that to give a more
frequent supply to districts did net require so large an
additional expenditure of water as was generally believed,
and this he proved by adducing. Mary-bone district,
which cost very little more to supply, it six times a-week
in, place of three times, as formerly, though densely
peopled. With respect to drying up private wells, this
weed trifling consequence, as compared with the general
advantages of large and deep wells ; and the few parties
who lost their wells, could be supplied immediately at a
very little more cost. He had seen Revington, and he
believed all its waters, and he deemed the scheme
respecting it great, but surrounded by risk and dif-
ficulty. He would not be one of the gentlemen who
would incur the respons bility of carrying it out. It was
against it that the light, though not extensive thrown
upon it lately, excited doubt and alarm. The public, in-
cluding himself, were all to blame that it had gone so far
without proper investigation, and the discovery of these
difficulties now surrounded it. They had already
spent £30,000 in law expenses, &c.,_ en it, and some
seemed to think they ought therefore to go on with it,
and spend £400,000 more. He concluded by saying
that from what he could judge or learn, he would respect-
fully recommend to the Corporation a postponement of
their plans. There were great difficulties in the way.
They ought to lay all feeling aside, but a consideration for
the public good ; weigh well the arguments on both sides;
and think of the great burden they would throw upon the
town, by persisting in their present scheme. Let them
wait, at least, until the question was more thoroughly
sifted, as to the supply that could be furnished by the
present works, and until others that might be added
within their own vicinity, were fairly tested. (He was
listened to throughout a long and able address—of which
this is, but a synopsis—with great attention, and sat down
amidst much applause.)
Mr. Seinet, who was called upon by the Chairman, as
one of the parties who had visited the Rivington Pike,
said, that he found that many of what he had been ac-
customed to call ditches, were called streams, and many
of them. as well as of the streams, were perfectly dry.
The Douglas contained only an inch, and the Yarrow 24,
the former being abstracted altogether by the canal com-
panies. It was said, however, that the water was to be
dammed up when plentiful, and doled out to us when
wanted. The vallies, now meadow land, to be manured by
guano and other commodities. The water was not such
as we could use ; and he found that the quantity
would not be more than sufficient to give compen-
sation required. In Manchester, he had found that
similar water, pure to the eye, would not be used. The
Rivington water had the same properties—animalculm,
and vegetable and earthy matter—which he had found in
pools abounding with fish, and of course full of food suit-
able for fish. He had never seen a country so deficient
in water, although he had visited many parts of the
country. If they only proposed to collect it in winter,
we could procure it easily by the same means upon our
own sandstone grit. In the valley of the Riddlesworth
the stream runs over the coal measures ; and the water
runs through the millstone grit, and resembles skim milk.
The speaker referred to the insecurity of depending upon
estimates, and referred to the increase of those for St.
George's-hall; and combated the notion that so large a
quantity as 200,000 gallons would be required for working
the cranes at the docks. Mr, Smith concluded by en-
treating the people of Liverpool to pause before entering
upon this enormous expenditure, reminding them that,
in the event of their driving the inhabitants of Liverpool
by high rates to take their families into smaller houses,
they might not improve the sanitary condition of the
town.

Mr. GRANTHAM explained as to his remarks with
respect to the landlords not providing tanks, so far as the
Bootle Company was concerned.
Mr. RAWLINSON maintained that an expenditure of
money for a supply of water to a large town was not to
be looked at in comparison with a good supply. After
referring to the fact that this was not a country of foun-
tains, and to the low sanitary state of Liverpool, he pro-
ceeded to contend that the Rivington Pike scheme was
after all an inadequate scheme, and that a much larger
amount might be brought from the Dee for the same
money. His scheme was calculated to supply 30,000,000
gallons per day, and although Mr. Grantham might think
that excessive the inhabitants of New York did not
think so. This quantity could be supplied at a profit
over the total expense of procuring it. He stated that by
his plan the mains could be kept full at all times for fires,
for flushing sewers, and all other purposes. Mr. Itaw-
linson condemned the Rivington Pike scheme on the
ground that the water there came down unequally ; and
contrasted it with the ample supply which could be
brought from the Dee; and after an appeal to the people
of Liverpool on the score of their local greatness, con-
cluded his paper amidst partial cheers.

Mr. SPENCER complained that the meeting had shown
a feeling in favour of some speakers ; and contended that
they were not prepared to go into a decision upon the
figures and estimates brought forward by Mr. Grantham.
After a few remarks in opposition to the views of Mr.
Grantham and Mr. Simpson, of the Green-lane Water
Works, he proceeded to read a letter from Professor Ans-
ted, referring him to local experience as to the supply to
be got from the red sandstone. Mr. Spencer admitted
that the quantity required might be got, but that it would
be as extensive as the double supply from Rivington
Pike. In reply to Mr. Rawlinson's remarks, he said that
the gauges at Rivington had, up to last week, given above
a million gallons more than the estimates. The fact
which Mr. Smith had stated—that on his visit the streams
were dry—proved that the shed was not upon a boggy
marshy land ; and produced specimens of the water from
all the streams, taken at various times and sealed up by
Captain Francis, and contended in favour of their superior
purity. He proceeded to remark upon Mr. Rawlinson's
advocacy of the Dee water, as water not likely to be got.
The Rev. Mr. DWYER thought that none of his argu-
ments had been touched. He asked, as to a statement
made that the public were getting salt water out of some
wells, where was it ? He was told it was in Oil-street.
Mr, WM. EARLE said it was in his well ; and if he
wished he could give him salt to his porridge. (Laughter.)
Mr. DANSON, after some remarks upon Mr. Grantham's
estimates, spoke to the large increase of water tenants since
there was given the assurance of an approaching supply
of that commodity, which was increasing the revenue
from the water company very largely. He proceeded to
condemn the remarks of Mr. Smith, which he deemed
derogatory of the character of the eminent professional
men engaged in this question. The speaker went on to
argue that the out-townships. who were complaining of
the present rates, had a full right to bear those rates which
they had sought to have paid out of the borough fund.
Mr. SMITH explained and denied that be had made any
imputation upon the gentlemen engaged by the Corpo-
ration.
Mr. GRANTHAM replied by defending the slight altera-
tion which he had made in Mr. Hawkley's estimate ; and
seeing many of the officials engaged in the sanatory ques-
tion, his friend, Mr. Fresh, in particular, repudiated the
charge of having thrown any stigma of inattention to the
wants of the town by the committee upon the subject.

THE FLOWER SHOW.-Our readers are fully apprised
that the first Horticultural exhibition of the Liverpool
Association will take place on Thursday next, at the Corn
Exchange. No doubt the attendance of the public will
be as numerous as the occasion merits. The promoters
of so interesting an exhibition ought to be encouraged to
g've us further similar opportunities.