The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-11-12 00:00:00

been brought,' first to try the right to levy the town dues, and
secondly the exemption. The Corporation got beaten.
Mr. Foster.—The Corporation also claim the right to receive
the town dues and anchorage at Runcorn, as being within the
port of Liverpool.
In reply to further questions, Mr. Foster stated, that in one
case, that of the late Duke of Bridgewater, the Dock called the
Duke's Dock was granted on a lease renewable perpetually,
on payment of .a guinea, when a life drops; and there are soma
schools and charitable institutions, to whom leases are granted,
renewable on a nominal fine, so long as they are used for their
original purposes. The Athenieum is also let on the same terms.
A ground rent of one shilling a yard was reserved.
Mr. Foster was then examined at considerable length on the
acts of Parliament relative to the establishment and maintenance
of the various markets within the borough, which were under the
Corporation, copies of which were produced. The markets were
built under the authority of these acts, which regulate their go-
vernment and the tolls to be levied. There are two mar
1a
days
in every week, namely, Wednesdays and Saturdays. The one
by prscription, and the other by patent in the Bth Anne. Mr.
otter then read the preamble to the act (59 Geo. 111, cap. 9)
recognising the tight of the Mayor, bailiffs, and burgesses to
tolls on all articles brought for sale to the markets then exist-
ing, and stating that, in consideration of the Mayor, bailiffs,
-Sze., relinquishing these tolls, others were established in their
stead. The act contained a provisu, that the abolition of these
tolls did not extend to " any dues or rights claimed or belong-
ing to the Corporation, except those termed ingates and out-
gates."' The total income of the markets, calculated .on an
average of the last seven years, was £6,127 18s. Id. per annum,
and the total average cost of the establishments also for seven
years, was. £3,346 Is. fitl. The cost of erecting the three mar-
kets of St. John's, St. James's; and St. Martin's, without the
land, was 1:83,11 lls. 11d.
A Freeman asked whether the burgesses had not a right of
exemption from the market tolls.
Mr. Foster did not know of any such right, but they were
only charged half the tolls. The weighing machines were
erected at the expense of the Corporation for the benefit of the
public. It was highly desirable that they should be placed
under proper regulations. For the protection of the public the
Corporation endeavoured to prevent the erection of weighing
machines by private individuals on the lands of the Corpora-
tion. The oil house was erected about ten years ago forthe use
of vessels in the whale trade, but that trade seemed to hare left
the port.
The corporate officers were then examined relative to the
Grusin°, docks, shipbuilding yards, and other property held
under the Corporation ; but a great portion of the examination
was totally inaudible to us, and to almost every body else, ex-
cept the commissioners, in consequence of the very IoW tone of
voice in. which the witnesses spoke, and of turning their backs
upon the public while addressing the commissioners. The cost
of building the tobacco warehouse which was erected in 1811
by the Corporation, for the accommodation of merchants and
(Acts, was /.:17;269 4s. Ild.
A conversation ensued on the subject of the Baths, in the
course •of-whith- 4
Mr. Duncan inquired whether all the accounts for building
the Baths had been settled ?
Mr. Case- replied that he was not prepared to say; the sur-
veyor no. doubt could give the required information. He
merely paid the orders made upon him.
Mr.".ltathbone said that the object of the question was to
ascertain whether the -cost of this building had been fairly
stated, as he laboured under an impression that it had not.
Mr. Duncan then, in behalf of himself and the gentlemen
round him, requested the witnesses to turn round toward the
public, and speak in a louder tone.
Mr. Foster said that before the Baths were erected, there
were'other Baths there, and when they were removed the pre-
seat largeisand more extensive ones were erected. The cost of
the Baths was £32,859 ss. 7d. up to the year 1832. There had
beets further payments in the present year. The former Baths
had been for the accommodation of the public, and it was in-
tended that by the present ones the public should have the same
accommodation. When the present Baths were erected, the
Common Council had the satisfaction of being blamed by both
parties, and the probability therefore, was, that they were in
the right ! (A laugh.)
A man in the crowd collected in the audience part of the
co ta said that Mr. Coglan of the Floating Bath could proba-
bly say soMething on the subject of baths. (A laugh.)
The cumniissioners made some inquiries about the
_George
Inn, King's
,Arms, eini the old Pork Market. but the questions
and answers were made in such a. conversational manner that
we could not collect their import. .
A question having been asked respecting the Chain Cable
Trial Machine,
Mr. Alderman Horsfall stated that it was erected at the re-
quest of -the merchants and shipowners in 1830, and that its
cost was £2OOB, and produced a rental of (we understood) £l3O
a-year. It is worked by machinery which tries the strength of
a portion of the cable at. a time.
.I.llr. Case described the Patent Slip for raising vessels re-
quiring repairs, and said that it was now let at a rental of £209
a year.
Mr. Foster stated that several yards and premises were now
in the occupation of slate-merchants and others, as tenants at
will under the Corporation, so that they might be resumed by
the Corporation whenever they were required to effect improve-
ments. In letting premises, no question is ever asked as to
whether the offer is made by a freeman or non-freeman, and
neither freeman nor Common Councilman has the slightest ad-
vantage in any respect over other persons.
The examination respecting the management of other pro-
perty was continued for some time, none of which attracted
any notice, and, indeed, was only understood by the examiners
and the exatninees.
Mr. Foster informed the commissioners that, the Corporation
levied a toll of one shilling on each British vessel trading coast-
wise ; one shilling and threepene on all British vessels from
foreign or colonial ports, and one shilling and sixpence on all
foreign vessels. There is no exemption in favour of freemen in
respect of anchOrage, which has been paid time out of mind,
which was proved at -the trial, as well as by documentary evi-
dence. The Corporation claim these tolls by purchase from
the ancestors of the Earl of Sefton, front whom they purchased
the site of the town. -He could say nothing as to the title, as it
was the subject of litigation.
Lieutenant Morrison asked whether the fee was exacted
although the, vessel did not anchor, and merely ran ashore by
accident Or otherwise.
Mr: Fosterreplied that the fee was collected at the Custom..
house,- and, was taken front vessels entering inwards. •
Mr. Corrie said he had known vessels arrive, enter their
.cargoes at the Custom-house, pay the toll, and saiPwithout land-
ing their cargoes,.and without asking or receiving back the tolls
The court then rose for the purpose of adjourning, when
Me. Alilerthan Lawrence rose and said, that as chairman of
the Dock Committee, he wished to know what information the
commissioners required from them. The committee were to
have a meeting to-morrow, and he handed to the. commissioners
a copy of the accounts, in order that, by looking over them,
they inight give hon au idea of the points upon which they
would require information. The committees were to meet at
eleven to-morrow.
The commissioners said they would look over the accounts
and inform Mr. Lawrence when they met to-morrow morning,
(Saturday) at ten o'clock,.what information they would want.
The court then adjourned until ten o'clock on Saturday.

SIXTII DAY.
This morning (Saturday November the 9th) the commis-
sioners entered at the usual hour, there being but a very thin
attendance of audience.
The Town-clerk, with reference to the Dock Estates, wished
to be informed if it was the intention of the commissuiners to
extend the inquiry beyond the existing state .of that property.
If it were to be confined to the existing state, all the necessary
information would be promptly supplied by the committee now
managing the affairs of the estate, under the act of 1825.
'llr. Duncan thought that it would be more convenient to be--
gin in chronological' order from the earliest period.
Sir. Commissioner Wilkinson.—lt appears that Mr. Glad-
stone, who has occasion to leave Liverpool for a short period
oil business, will be able to attend on Monday morning, and as,
a niatter'orpersonal convenience to him, his evidence.would
first taken. Alter this the commissioners would take evidence .•
of the existing state of the clock property.
Mr. Radcliffe observed that the inquiry oueht not to be con-
fined to the present condition of the Dock Estate, but shoulele -
be carried back to earlier periods.
After some further conversation on this point, between the
Town. clerk and the gentlemen who objected to any limitation
of the inquiry,
e Mr. Commissioner Wilkinson said that it would be as well to
go first into what was done in the course of last year, and then
to go into any question which might be elicited by the exami-
nation, or suggested by any gentleman who might be present.
The Town-clerk then stated to the commissioners that the
first evidence .required, in consequence of what had been elicited
on the previous day, was that of the surveyor, ou the subject of
Mr. Silvester's unpaid account at the Baths. This would have
been offered at the moment it was required, had not the sur-
veyor accidentally missed receiving the note which was sent to
him in time.
Mr. Foster, the surveyor, examined.—Up to thaperiod of the
account, the sum stated, 1:32,59 ss. 9d., was all the money due
or paid on account of the baths. Mr. Silvester is almost the
servant of the Corporation, inasmuch as the complicated ma-
chinery.at the baths requires nis constant attention. The ap-
paratus includes the filtering of the water, warming the baths,
&e, ,slung, therefore, as the baths are in operation, there must
be an 'account open with Mr. Silvester from one quarter to
another. In short he is the engineer to the baths. At this
time there may be about £9O due to him were his account now
closed. Ile has never complained of nompayment. Whenever
he has asked for money on account he has always had it..
4•1. r. Daucaasaid his inquiry was not as to the annual ex-
penditure of the baths, but whether there were any outstanding
liabilities, on account of erecting the baths.
The Surveyor said to the best of his knowledge there were
none. Whatever might be unpaid would come into this year's
aceount. The foundation of the baths was. exceedingly sandy,
and wits formed on piles.
Mr. Radcliffe begged that the evidence might be given audi-
bly, so that every one present might hear.
A burgess here interpolated some observations relative to
erecting buildings and building ships, which- we could not
understand. The Commissioners promised hint a hearing on a
future day.
Mr. Okell gave evidence of the dates of erecting the graving
docks as follows :—No. lin 1756, and Nos. 2 and 3 in 1765.
Mr. Edward Crooke called for some explanation relative to
the state of the foundations of the graving docks.
The Towu Clerk stated that into the dry dock, as it was cal-
led, the water originally flowed every title, and that under the
6th of Geo. IV, the dock was converted into a wet dock, by the
erection of sates; and occasionally the water oozing from the
wet dock injured the foundations of the graving clocks. Any
injury done to vessels from this circumstance was made good
by the Corporation.
Mr. Crooke said it was generally the case in Liverpool that
buildings had to be erected twice over; and he wished to know
if any person was employed by the Corporation to superintend
their works, so as to be held accountable fur any deficiency or
error in judgment.
To a question from the commissioner, the Town-clerk said,
that the surveyor gave no bond for the proper performance of
his duties.
The Treasurer begged permission to correct pact of his state-
ment of the previous day relative to the widening of Lord-street,
in which he had said the Corporation had no property at the
time of alteration. The Corporation-held at that time the re-
versionary interest of premises having, on one side of the street,
a frontage of twenty-three yards, and on the other a frontage
of twenty-five yards, near the bottom of the street. He then
produced a list of the Corporation tenants; and added, that he
had previously said that, with the exception of Mr. Foster, there
were no members of the Common Council tenants to the Cor-
poration, but he had since found that Mr. Ewart, in conjunction
with his partners, were also tenants of the Corporation. Both
parties were tenants long before they became members of the
Common Council.
Mr. Commissioner Wilkinson asked to be furnished With an
account of any lands bought by members of theCoinfiton Coun-
cil from the Corporation, or of long leases granted to them..
The Commissioners would require these particulers not only as
regarded the present tittle, but for earlier periods.
The Town-clerk said .there was no distinction made in leasing
to Common Councilmen. The conditions and fees were eegu-
! latf'd alike in all cases.
Mr. Ok.e4 ccufirined the statement as to conditions and