The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-05-14 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STA:\ DAR 1).

Do you recollect whether he went out by himself, or with the
rest ?—I think he went out with my master.

Did he go out without any person fetching him ?—Yes, he
did.

Did you see any money given at your house to any of the per-
sons that were there?—No.

You say there were some freemen in your house ; did they
go from your house to the poll, and come back from the poll to
your house p—They were backwards and forwards most of the
day.

Did any of them, as far as you know, bring back any money
after having polled?—Nut one farthing a piece that I saw.
Was Ryder drinking at your house that evening as well as in
the day ?—Yes, he was.
Didlie pay for what he had in the evening, or drink upon
trust ?-0n credit.

You suffered him to run up a score ?---Yes, and he always
paid me very well.
I believe this is your second journey to London upon this oc-
casion ?—Yes..
You were brought up by the petitioners ?—Yes.
Cross-examined by Mr. Rushton.
You keep the 'Brewer's Arms, and you remember the second
day of the election, and that Ryder was in your house ?—Yes.
Do you remember Mr. Haselden coming there ?—NO.
This tall thin gentleman ?—I do not remember. that I 'ever
saw him in my life.
Ryder was there you said ?—He was there.
How many with him ?—I cannot tell you the number—seven
or eight; I think.
What did ltvder owe you at that time ?—About 12s. orl3s.
How long had he been in getting up that score ?—lle only
owed me a few shillings before the election day.'
If You dont remember Mr. Haselden, do you remember any
gentleinan coming in to canvass the freemen ?—Yes, I remem-
her many gentlemen.
Did these men, in your house, wear green ribbons ?—No.
Did You ever see them in green ribbons ?—I cannot say that
I ever did.

Did you ever see them with any coloured ribbons ?—There
was a little crimson, but there was very little ribbon worn.
You do not remember any gentleman coming in to canvass
them on the afternoon of the second day ?—There were several
gentlemen tame in.
Were you present when the gentlemen spoke to the freemen ?
No. I was not, I was minding the house.
Then Ryder might have said, that it was of no use humbug-
ging them, and he would not go Without £2 never heard
him say that.
Might it not have occurred during the period of your tempo-
rary•absence ?—I cannot say thil-t_

Were you absent long enough for the man to say that ?—I was
backwards and forward in the house.
How long were you away flora the freemen during that after-
noon at any one time ?—fwas away a few minutes together.
Were you away at any time five minutes ?—I dare say I was.
Do you remember, after the man went away to vote, a gen-
tleman coining ?—No, I do not recollect any gentleman calling.
- After they were gone, do you remember ever saying to Mr.
Haselden or any other person that they had had their shot, and
more than £2 F—No, I am sure I did not, I could not say so.
• Did von I did not.
Nothing to that purpose ?—No. -
Re-examined by Mr. Hutchinson.
You are quite sure that you did hot go into the Yard with
Ryder, and bargain with bins about his vote. ?—That can take
an oath of:

Mr. 'Jolla BILLINGE was called in and examined by Mr.
Rushton as follow:

How long have you lived in Liverpool?—A little more than
three years.
Are you in the employ of Mr. M`Kee ?—I am.
What is he ?—A slater and plasterer.
Does Mr. M`liee employ many freemen ?—lle • employs
seven freemen.
HaVe vou Mr. M'Kee's wanes book ?—I have.
Do yoii keep that book ?—f do.
Do you pay the wages ?—I do.
Do. you enter them in that book?—I do.
Have you got the pay account of Saturday the 13th of De,
cember ?-74 have.
Was that the Saturday after the election ?—lt was.
Do you find in the boiik the name of William Berry ?—I
Is ha a freeman P—He is, Barry is his real name, but we have
always entered it as Berry.
Is he a plasterer?—He is.
Are there two men of the name of Barry, in your establish-
ment P—There are.
Are they both freemen ?—They are. -
Is there a freeman of the name of Ilall, in your establish-
ment ?—There is:
What is his name ?—Robert.

Is there a freeman of the name of Perry ?—There is.
h Walley a freeman ?—Yes. •

What is his Christian name ?—I cannot say.
Is there a Williams ?—Yes, John Williams.
Is Moseley there ?.--Yes.
Are those names I have mentioned, the names of freemen of
the establishment ?—They are.

Do you knoW how those men voted ?—f believe they voted
for Loid Sandon, and Sir Howard Douglas.
How many days in the week did William Barry work ?
Three days and three quarters.
Joseph Barry?—Three days and three quarters.
Robert Hall?—'llree days and three quarters.
Williams?—Three days and threes quarters.
Berry ?—Three days and a half.
Mosely ?—One day and three quarters.
What would have been William Barry's regular wages for
the time he worked ?—Barry's wages would have been 15s.
Joseph Barry ?-15s.
Robert Hall-?-18s.

What did you actually pay them ?-19s. each.
Why did • 3-ou add 4s. to .the amount of their earnings ?—I
was ordered to do it by Al`Kee, to pay for the day in which
they went to the poll.
Did you do that for the whole seven in the establishment ?
I did.

Then though these men had earned but 15s. you paid them
19s. ?—I did, and others in propOrtion that had less wages.
How many men have'you in the establishment altogether ?
I think about 50.
'Were those men' at constant work during the week ?—They
were not.

Did you allow those men that were off work, and were not
freemen 4s. ?—I did not.

Were there many off work besides freetnen ?—Almost all of
them. We cannot get them to work during the election,
neither freemen nor non-freemen.

But you say the non-freemen were not paid P—They were not,
only for the days they worked. •

Gran you tell us lrow many non-freemen were off work ?
The fact is, they were all of work.
And then Mr: SPliee told you to select the freemen; and to
allow.the freemen the day's wages ?—Yes.
But you had no instructions to allow it to the non-freemen?—
No.

Did you in point of fact, allow it to any but the freemen ?
I did not.

Do you remember paying a shot at a public house that week ?
I did not pay it that week. •
A 'shot means a score for drink ?-L-Yes.
Have you got a note of that?—l have; it is £l. 1832, Dec.
12th, to ale, spirits, &c. ]Os. The 13th, to ditto ditto, 10s.
'Were those the two days of the election ?—Yes, they were.
By whose desire did -you pay that?—Mr. James M'Kee, the
son of Mr. M`Kee.
Were you at the public house before you paid it ?—Never.
I did not actually pay it; I received. the bill from hint, and I
deducted it in the account.
Are there ally apprentices in your establishment?—There are.
Were they employed during the election ?—They. carried
standards.

Did von pay them their wages whilst they were carrying
standards for the•day they were so occupied ?—Yes; but whe-
ther they are ill or well, or whether they work'or play, they are
always paid their full wages.
Did those men vote on the first day or second day ?-0n the
first day, I- believe.
Did any of them speak to you respecting their votes after-
wards ?—=Never.

Cross-examined by Mr. Boyers.
You say you paid this shot 'at a public house. You found the
shot standing there against one
.of your master's sons?—ldid.
You never had any communication with your Master on .this
subject?—t never had.
Had not you general orders from him, if you found any thing
standing out against his sons to discharge it ?—I should do. it
williout Mr. ill'Kee's orders.. ' ' ' " " •

Did you give any order,- Of Were Volt present when Mr:
M'Kee's son gave any, order ?=I teas not; I never gave any
order myself.
1?-examined by Mr. Rushton,

Am 1 to understand that you paid demands made upon
your master's sons without...inquiring into the nature of them ?
I should public house scores.
When you were told of this debt at the public house, did you
inquire what the money was for?—'They told me it was for
beer during the election.
.•
Did they tell you who had the beer ?—lt was fur Mr. APKee's

men, but the nen-freemen participated in that beer, as «•ell as
the freemen. •

Committee.—Who told von that the non-freemen participated
in that beer?—l heard it in the yard; they were all drunk.
You have about fifty men in the N,ard?—lres.
Would ten shillings worth make ail your men drunk ?—I
should think not.
Then you do not suppose that all the men in the yard had
beer for those ten shillings?—Nut all of them; but the greatest
part of them.
Will teu shillings make forty :men drunk in Liverpool ?
think not.

Do you think ten shillings will make seven men drunk.—l
should think not.

Do you suppose that those seven men.voted contrary to their
wishes because they received. those four shillings a piece.—l
cannot say whether they did.or did no,. I did not interfere in
anv way.—The witness then withdrew. • •
PETER FELTox was called in and examined by Mr. Rushton
as follows : •
You were. employed as a messenger at Sir Howard Douglas'
committee-room P—l was. • . . ,
Did you communicate ;between the central committee and
any district committee?—l• did; I was the messenger between
Toxteth-park amkthe.Royal Hotel. • . •
1)o you know who ttie treasurer of Sir.. Howard Douglas'
committee was P—No.
Did you see Mr. Dempsy there ?—No.
Did you ever see Mr. Ok:11 there ?—1 did.
Do you remember being in the district committee-room on
the second day P—l do.
Do you remember the -canvassers of Sir Howard Douglas
coming in - •
Do you remember any communication they made to the com-
mittee P—l do.
Whaat was the nature of it ?—That the freemen bad refused
to come up, unless they were remunerated for their loss of time.
Committee.—How do you know that they, were canvassers ?
I was informed that they were. So.
Air. Rushtm..--Were you in the committee-room at the time?
—I was.

Did they corrx into the committee-room ?—They did.
Did they wear any colours ?--Therdid; blue and red.
Do you remember the afternoon of the second day ?-17es.
Did-you see any freemen in the committee-room on the after-
noon of that day ?—I did.
•Were those men drunk or sober ?—The.greater part of them
were drunk.
Do you remember a man being brought up that. afternoon
that wore a jacket and trowsers ?—There were a great many.
Do you recollect one particularly ?-1 remember one par-
ticularly at the booth. .

V.-hat occasioued•3•ou to recollect him ?—I-re was very much
intoxicated, and he said by :could, not vote unless he lind two
sovereigns.
Did he go to vote there?—lle voted after Wards.
Did you seo•what took place before lie voted?—Yes; he went
round with some gentlemen, and came back with money in his
hand.

Do you know who those gentlemen were ?—No.
He went round where ?—Behind the booth.
Did you see him come back with money in his hand P—l .did.
Have you any doubt, that he bad money ?—No; because
woman that was drunk with him, that I took to be his wife,
wanted him to give it up..
Was the bribery oath being administered at this time ?—lt
had been abOut au hour previous to that.
Did you see the man. vote ?—I did.

Did you hear for whom he voted ?—Sandon.and Douglas.
Were you the bearer of correspondence between the two com-
mittee-rooms ?—Yes. • .
Who were the parties ihat carried on that correspondence ?
Mr. Fletcher and Mr. Peter Wright.
Do you know Mr. Fletcher's Christian }same ?—I do not.
Do you know his occupation ?—A timber merchant.
Was Mr. Peter Wright the law agent of . Sir Howard
Douglas ?—I believe so. •
Do you remember seeing Mr. Alexander Smith ?—I recol-
lect a man of the name of Smith.
Have you seen Mr. Wright since that-?—1 have not.
Did you see Mr. Thistleton there ?—I did,
On the second day was the district cominittee-room open, to
both parties was. . .
Did men come into the committee-room with red ribbons as
well as with blue ribbons ?—Yes, both parties. . .
Did you hear Mr. Thistleton say any thing there respecting
the. voters?—No.
In your visits to the committee-moth did you see any money
on the table ?—I-did. • .
What sort of moue); ?—Gold.
What quantity of money ?—I cannot say exactly.
Was it in sovereigns ?—:lt was. •
Was it a large quantity or a small quantity ?—A considerable
sum, perhaps 'to or £3O.
Were the-voters brouo;lit into that committee-rota-xi before
they polled ?—They were.
Did you see any box there ?—Yes.
What was the box made of ?—The box contained the money.
Was it a tin box ?—I think it was.
Was there money-on the table-be Sides the money in the box ?
—None. ••

At which committee-room did you see this money ?—At the
general committee-room in Dale-street.
Were the voters brought into that committee-room before they
polled ?—No ;. the sub-committee-rooms. •
You have said you saw 140 or £3O in .sovereigns upon the
table in the general committee-room ; was that money in a box ?
—Yes.
And that boX was on a table ?Yes.

•
Committee.—Did you see money in any other room besides
that room ?—No.

Mt-. Rushton.

You told nie that you saw Mr. Thistleton ; did you hear Mr.
Thistleton say any thing about ropers or so ?—Yes, that they
would not cease up till after the afternoon, and they would have
plenty then.
Was any thing said, about amajority ?—No.
They would have plenty of what ?—Plenty of ropers there.
Was there any treating in •the district committee-room, that
you saw. in the district committee-room ?—Yes.
There was there ?—Yes.. •
What was it?—The men asked for. something to drink, and
they were ordered down stairs into the kitchen.
Did you see them get any thing ?-1 diu.
Were those men voters ?-:They *ere.
Do you remember any thing being said about Mr. Smith
there ?—No.-
•
Were any freemen's wives there ?—Yes.
Were they drinking as well as the free Men ?—Yes.
They were drinking as well as the freemen ?—They were
drinking all together.

Cross-examined by Mr. Rogers.
You have spoken of-two committee-rooms, the general com-
mittee-room and the sub-committee-room; where was the ge-
neral committee-room !&—ln the•ltoyai Hotel. •
In what part of the house ?—ln the parlour.
Whereabouts.?—Facing the street on the grouhd-floor.
Is the Royal Hotel, in .Dale-street the best of my re-
collection it is; it is the new Hotel. • -
You have spoken of a canvassing conunittee•rooin, where was
that ?—At Toxteth-park.
How far was Toxteth-park from the Royal hotel ?—A mile
and a half.

Was it in the general committee-room or the canvassing com-
mittee-room that you saw this box with 20 or'3o'sovcreigns ?
At the general committee-room.
Where was this box placed.?-0n a table.': •
At what part of the.table ?—I cannot say exactly.
Was it at the top or the bottom ?—lt was u 1 i3fi the top of the
table.

At the top of the table or the bottom ?-1. do riot know which
was the upper end of the table.
Did you count the sovereigns ?—No.
What makes you say that there were twenty or thirty ?—I
thought there was as much.
And you do not recollect on what part of the table the box
stood ?—No.
• What sized box was it ?---About the size of that book.
Are you acquainted with merchants' counting-houses ?—No.
Did it look like the cash-box of a merchants' counting-house ?
—I cannot tell.
Ilow deep was it?—That I did not measure.
Cannot you tell about how deep it was ?—No, I cannot.
Was it a foot or a quarter of a foot deep.—lt was less than a
quarter of a foot.
flow long.were you in the room and how many times did you
see the box ?—Six or eight times.
You came in to receive orders and went out again ?—Yes,. I
was taking packages uud parcels baiik.
Whilst you were there did •you'see any thing taken out of this,
box ?—I did n0t,..1 never saw any thing paid. • •
You haye stated that there was a man very drunk, and that
he went behind the hooth, and when he returned you saw mu-
nay in his hand; just recollect what there was in his hand ?-1t
waN silver. •

Was he opening his hand ?—The woman that was with him
wanted to take it from him.
Was it open ?—She opened it.
Did the open it in your presence ?—Ye:, close to
Did she open it by force
You saw some silver in it ?Yes.

Can you tell me how much ?—No!. .
Two or three shillings or ten or twelve shillings ?—Perhaps
ten or twelve.
You do not know but that this man had the money before he
went behind the booth?—No, I do not, but from his appearance
I do not think he had.

It is no uncommon thing for a wife when she sees her husband
drunk to wish to take the money from him, you have.seen such
an occurrence often happen I dare say ?—I have.
•-
You were emplgyed for pay, I suppose ?—I was. - •
Did you know 4ny thing of this man that you saw ?—No, he
was a stranger to foe.
When did you first tell any body this story ?—I thought it a
laughable circumstance and 1 related it a day or two after-
wards.

You say vou had to carry packages from one committee-
room to another, were they not returns ?—They were generally
sealed.

And what information they contained you do not know ?—No,
with the exception of one case, in which Mr. Fletcher wrote
upon the back of the returns that the bribery oath was then
put.
You have stated that a great number of freemen • came into
the room, and you 'have stated also that they asked for some-
thing to drink, and that they were sent down stairs. Now name
the name of one freeman ?—nat I cannot. ! !
How did you know that they were freemen ?—/. took them to
be freemen from their appearance and from their being brought
into the room by the canvassers.
But you did not know one of them ?—NO. ! !
And you did not know one of them to he a freeman ?-1 can-
not swear that.