The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-15 00:00:00

•
elapsed instead of three weeks since the noble lord I
his measure. He (Sir R. Peel) begged to say that
wish whatever to cause unnecessary delay in the
measure. All he wished for was, that time sht
consult those whose interests were concerned, au'
tested against was, that the house should be call
notice of three days only to decide upon a bill
important changes. He considered that either
Thursday was too early a notice for members to
selves to discuss the principle of this bill. He
assert that if reasonable time were allowed, the
(Althorp) would find no disposition evinced by those
he (Sir R. Peel) acted, to delay this bill as the of
been delayed by the gentlemen connected with
however, he did not mean to blame for pursuing
was hardly fair he thought of the noble lord to I
opposed this bill as if they had a desire to delay it
He pia it to the noble lord's sense of justice to sa'
reasonable to ask him to delay the second readh
next. He (Sir R.Peel) begged to say for one, than
consent to any unnecessary delay. in the ,passf
and he did not think it would be fair dealing the
with whom he acted, should suffer for their ft
bill of this description, the object of which was the
the Established Church, and the appropriation of
revenues to secular purposes, ought to be calmly
considered; and he did not think that the deL
beyond the time limited by the noble lord was
If the government wished to conciliate the chi
who felt an interest in its concerns, they could
disposition better than by allowing a fair and
for the consideration of this bill.

speeches of the two gallant colonels fru aa evidence of the calmness and prude
Of Ireland, and a strong proof of the I
Would give to that faction. (Hear.)
4,41a41) the Secretary of State for Ireland,
the language he used. He thought the
niisia.uad exhibited such a total want of discret
wh'7o La place such extraordinary powers in
"' Measure was only calculated to give the
IPliies of the government, an opportuni
cia the government of the country, and
iltire place and power. (Cheers.) The s
ii:derived from the right hon. baronet, tl
114. And his Conservative colleagues, wa
-Weight to the measure, when the pu
e a influence that was thrown into t
Was directed that evening against.
•reland. He did not consider that t
for such unheard of powers, that wot
,ciple of British law and
justice. The di
ti
4trY during the discussion upon the Reforn
Oltrageous as the agitation of the repeal 'le was free to admit that there existed
:OM of the necessity of putting them down
e, and property; but he differed with his
4;:ks to the Ineaus.that thoug to be adopted gable an object. He ght remedial
1, coercive means, would be more efficaciou
lIIPPose that they could ke up. the prese
la Ireland when the Catholic disabili
itiwere shallow politicians indeed. (Hear
tkijiere outworks of the bastion, a
and so long
so odious establishment (hear, hear, and 1
94 would the people of Ireland be opp
The hon. gentleman concluded by n
to the effect, that the house was not sati
for passing this bill existed at the preset
hie
seconded the amendment. He °pi
? saw- that it went farther than merely!
of that unfortunate country from the
sustaining the law. He feared that th
• it could be brought to bear in any way,
tot4ances,
ograsping within its iron hand matt
e
theoutenaplated it should lay hold of. Wh'
40. and learned member for Dublin so
're, the ostensible object of which was t
outrage ? How many of the people of
,felt that this was a bill to put down Mr. o'l
it Were to put down predial agitation, h
eeted to this-bill. If ever there was a case
legislate bit by bit, it was in this very CE
Care that, in lowing the chain, they sl
It aless the proceeding one was weak and in
.)
4°„aPEnii felt great regret to be obliged t 4
Ireland
bill, from the kind way in which he
Areland by those very individuals against u
ittfte degree operate. (Hear.) He agreed
'"e appellations bestowed upon it, name]
and unconstitutional, but it had two
• it, namely, stern necessity and sovereig
Saw the necessity of the measure in th
in or property being safe in Ireland. E
dd, left that country. (Cries of No, no).
2(,Es- stated the grounds of the objection •
""' With respect to the county of Carlo
e had done their duty, the few outra
• that part of the country would have beei
(Hear. )
`itfisiox supported the bill, and bore testi
'"Y exertions of Dr. Doyle to preserve t.
•

Lord ALTHORP said that the delay in bringn
bill was occasioned by the time which was necessl
in arranging its details, and the bill would be
conformable with the plan laid down by him w!
troduced the measure to the notice of the house.
that the difference between Thursday and Mond
object, because, if hon. gentlemen could not
minds in three days they could not hope to be
lightened in seven days. With regard to the
must observe, that he never recollected a simii
debate of five nights taking place on the first rea
Colonel PEncivAL could not see on what grou,
lord (Althorp) could persist in refusing further
sidering this important bill.
Lord SANDON considered that his Majesty's
not to refuse a reasonable request, because it had
from a particular quarter of the house. From w
would ask, did the opposition to the other bill pi
that opposition more pure and disinterested in its
that by which the party who conscientiously opii.
were influenced? (Hear, hear.) Surely the dela
days was consistent with common sense and comm(
Mr. A. BARING said that he first entered that he
same period when the noble lord opposite (Lord
came a member of it, and he appealed to that noble
any hon. member who had the same experience, to 01
they ever recollected any measure of so much
this attempted to be discussed on two days' notice
out having the advantage of seeing the bill in pr
Althorp, across the table, said that the printed b:
ready to-morrow.) If ever there was a bill requirii
ture consideration than another, it was this very
noble lord was about to hurry forward with such brt.
Was it right then that not even sufficient time shot
to those who might wish to consult persons in Irelal
answers by the post ? This method of yielding to tl
the noble lord was opposed was a dangerous precei
doing away with the customary courtesies and est
of Parliament, might be consistent with a reform,
Commons ; but, in his opinion, "it was more hon(
breach than the observance." The noble lord (.
motion on the paper respecting tithes in Engla,
bill intended to be founded on that motion to be
a manner similar to this? (Rear, hear.) The
member concluded by observing, that, if he str
would divide the house on this question.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that, after the explanatit
his noble friend (Lord Althorp) with regard to this
quite satisfied that honourable members would col
the house on Thursday perfectly prepared to vote
The house, moreover, would not be called upon to
details of the bill on the second reading, as those
for the consideration of the committee. He did not
there was any material connection between this and I
bill, and his Majesty's ministers might, if they thougi
in a measure of conciliation without one of coercion,
versa. If there were grievances to be redressed, it
that they should be redressed; and, on the other ha
were disturbances to be put down, it was right that
be repressed. When grievances existed, such as I
it was.the object of this bill to relieve, it was most
Parliament should take the earliest opportunity
measure for their removal.

he'
said that this was a measure quite unca
teu by the government that only a few of tl
toa disturbed state, and why, therefore, sho
place the whole of Ireland under such
bill was intended to establish. The h
br described the tithe system as the
diurbances which had arisen in Ireland, a
that system (and he would beg to remark
this assertion by the evidence given 131
other gentlemen of known intelligence)
of the crimes which were committed in
itry. This was a legsilation not for the
f 4)11; it was not a legislatio for the peopl
c't the purposes of a faction. n (Hear.) HI
call upon the house to remember that the
he bad alluded had been caused by th
' governments, and not by any act of the
t'aoT said, in the consideration of.that bill the
en every tittle of evidence and argument w/
they came to a conclusion. He had ,
ted to say that, looking at all the evidence
ants which had been produced, he felt
es his sorrow must be and was at the fac
tat ministers had made out their case, (heal
Measure, severe and violent as it was, wa
had no hesitation in giving his support to
put down political agitation. (Hear, be:
ANT, after seine preliminary remarks, said
for Newport seemed to imagine that, by t
were proclaimed, martial law would at the sa
,ected. Now that was not the ease ; for if I
Sad of itself the effect of quelling the distu
ueno necessity for proceeding to the other
end sought to lie attained would have been
law, not being required, would not then
or erected. If circumstances arose to rend,
bagt an inroad in the constitution, it was ne
th° what effect would be pToduced, were the at
e
event of the measure arising therefrom•bei.
44,f his a precedent. The hon. and learned men
fi.t unnself said that the members of the Irish
and proper persons to act as judges in cases
1, C, Ile for one agreed with the hon. and learn
ii.qeee did not consider it right for a judge of tl
tee the provisions of this measure. He shot
act upon his own opinion, without t 1
lar to those which, under this bill, he
called upon to adjudicate in. The
tsarily return to his own court with a
,stly attached to his character, for
fell) an individual or individuals. T
tnerefore, avoided this unpleasant
.1

Sir R. INGLIS said, he had stated to the noble lo
(Lord Althorp) his determination to oppose this
stage, and he expressed the same determination to
honourable gentleman the Secretary for Ireland.
went to abolish oue single bishop only, instead of ten,
to have the fullest consideration.
Mr. ROBINSON said, that although he was in
principles of the bill, he was of opinion that the
terested ought to have-sufficient time for the considt
question of so much importance. He was of opin,
ought to undergo a full and calm discussion.
Sir F. VINCENT hoped his Majesty's ministers
forward their remedial measures with as much cele)
had done those of an opposite character. He wisheuw.
that sufficient time would be given to discuss the dew'
bill.
Mr. PETRE hoped that the noble lord would notgls
but that he would bring on the second reading on the
stated.—The house then divided.
For the motion lB7
Against it.

Majority for Ministers l4l
Upon our re-admission to the gallery we found
on his legs, moving a further adjournment of the
the appointment of the Liverpool Election Com]
quire into the abuses of the elective franchise in I
tion; which, after some discussion, was agreed to.
MALLOW ELECTION.

On the motion of Mr. O'Connell the order of till
further postponement of the period to allow the r'
to be entered into, was discharged.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE OF LORD!
Sir John Soane's Museum Bill was brought
House of Lords, and read a first time.
KNARESBOROUGH ELECTION.

table and: learned member for Dub
)f the magistracy in the same way ; th
body sitting in judgment. Now, it
and to rescue the people from the pc
id from the Orange magistracy, as th
eman had denominated a portion of
dative to the courts martial had bees

Sir WILLLTA M INGILBY moved the order of the Lear.) He could not but observe that 1
election ballot upon the petition. against the r( iotous conduct in Ireland had taken ph
Rotch be deferred. More, that the measure—that the proci
Mr. BOTCH said that he rose under strong feelin Ad thus early done good. (Hear, h
his sentiments upon this petition, which was who) rmination of Parliament to adopt a met]
dented in the annals of the history of parliament. 1 crime in Ireland had, he was rejoiced
of the petition was not only to unseat him, but it in some parts of that distracted countr
a bill of pains and penalties against him, as it st id struck terror and alarm into the he
was an alien. The question involved his prop, a., hear.) The severity of this measure
whole of his future prospects in life. (Hear, hear. ,:retion of the Lord Lieutenant of I
tion states, as the grounds of postponing the ing, lactments would not be brtmgJat into act
(Mr. Rotch) is an alien born, and owed no alle absolute necessity for their applica
Majesty, and that his father was the subject of a I cared that his Majesty's ministers had t
(Hear, hear.) • 'ard because they considered it to be m.
Mr. W. WYNN rose to order, and said that :hought that the state and condition
ought to be called in to verify the statements of th, with danger. They imagined and b
fore the house entered into such a statement. (C) of that country was all but, if not qi
Mr. Mander, the agent to the petitioner, was ;fore that a measure similar to that tl
examined. He said the election petition had b• is the only one by which tranquillity ci
on the 18th of February, founded upon letters 2. rved. (Loud cheers.) His -Majesty's
Dunkirk, stating that Mr. notch and his father tently introduced this measure to arrest
cans, and that the main object of the present petit 'ding over Ireland and her people.
was to enable the petitioners to procure evidence , it with approbation or censure, his Mt
allegations of the petition. ermined to-bear all the responsibility.
Upon cross-examination by Mr. O'Connell, he . responsible for it, and they should th
the letter containing the infOrmation was dated th, irse. (Applause.) They felt that the
bruary, and he did not send over to Dunkirk to ' them cotapaet, and as compact were tt
inquiries until the 24th. Auld deliver it up. (Continued cheers.)
Mr. WYNN rose and said that it would never , rd to convince -the house that this n
dente of this kind was made a ground for the p, with every evil to Ireland, far outweighi
(Cheers.) Avantages. He complained of the e
Mr TENNYSON said that the statement would ii which had been made, and of the defect
further postponement. The witnesses were in :e by which the necessity of the measu
t4,,1414 44u4rn9eeexastrianctssupfrio,omrt rafivhai:ecal:ett,ethrs,ebfuotrmhaedr
abi
would be an act of injustice to postpone the inquirPoitVltt h -lie right honourable Secretary for lrelai
hear.) He recommended the honourable baronet to
his motion.
The motion was then withdrawn. llt. l'ol
Oil INY on. This said little for the wisdom of ,
OBSERVANCE OF THE SABBATH. ~, t0,.iti.:44.,Q ..e house, however, ought to be provided w
Sir ANDREW AGNEW postponed his motion for lettat), '44 tikve the case admits of, one way or another.
in a bill to enforce the due observance of the tab' , thkr had a complete list of every crime, of ev
,
19th of March. ell, Red with it. Nothing of the kind had been c
LION,nt. •h. wished i
DISTURBANCES (IRELAND) BILL. ,o 00 either to .mpose upon the ha
On the order of the day, for resuming the debate LTktvit t strangely imposed themselves. The hone
cond reading of this bill, being read, ' r iti 'I thr!Peech was continued amid considerable in
Mr. C. BULLER said that he regretted the rnan''t 01 !4,icte,Peated calls of " Question," " Question,"
the debate had been carried on upon this question; 2,181), NA:_ilY sat down.
unworthy the dignity of the house; it had assullw v fy; '4tt 1)-. R then read the amendment.
personal:discussion; and appeals were made to anrifiellp "'las asked, if the house would permit itse]
with a view to injure his honourable and learn foe
member for the city of Dublin. (Hear, hear)

Ire]
called I"
in the s
„ila Peeche'
le lord ipt! ugerhe,44_ „Ovid,
ly that he measure
of
the pass' • • gentle_ ould
should be Ntious te,,,a11, Ulf
I, and all indeina Laie lank
called lifts unsatfl had exh:
al involviae whoi: to Place
to PreP3l.l4tltssapt"emies (
He veate,ra to ou the
ier Wed:.6l,:tve:natizia:eeci,:eraespuiraeti
d the
' eivl' Ta tit der .
y thos tl 14,011 31, e,
:he other ated t, , and
th Irelaud,ini t,h' give weir
he 410 let dt the sa
ng t hofe espet. lue
to treat t vehltrei . Ism m
I o, Ire
:sianjytguvilull'ilu.Setchil6e;Pciai.4ll:Petioauaritoeforof t
lat he 1101ifiliiaellitel'eriaaiiilsotuYidrttaigrlei
steg 03141)44, irtrageoi
that he 4 ttanoos, „e ,was f
• forhea'- 444 lir of th
Ls the led„,ciact,htlioleoet and Pri
on of arl' to d •• ''''' to th
a tdi'steact '''labl
mly
offan odi„, cof ean
Lelay 43tabiOuld s-Iluereive
was uote;i rtke 'slaketilVose t
church 3_,.,,,,,e),': off, trt to, fr
Id not d'ilief the mere ere she
l reason tiitio,f tilt 4 (,i'uwe
ii.e.:, so
10 41.0 us t
ere
ill tted by ti
mind ff;An,e") heartl,g won
cessarolAtinly „t4e,it • , The
be
.foul:.;lo4,44,,:Nll7,etitessityt°the c
i wile!, et Li L.,,,,twi for pa,
R. fleidei;74llseillNS se,
Imlay Irti w„gibia,„4 Ise°, saw t
at niaYtef," ita"or, lie of ti
be mad f . y ,11,,t(1, th-", Susta,
Coerrltioi Ltageolts'• It coo
sitar in til e tiot e anees, LI
readings, th of theeilteinpri
rrounds7if otii measureeti. au,
appe or ye, Qv, Were
i what St! kite
jetied to
proceed:4 4,,taite eglstate
ppo eaj' LT, 'mess the
nts °, 'llk eal'e th
e,lihso,e.iyrindbi
neisolliid4elo, , i
this
ti z
.I,_ st a
ommoll i of this`fET it f
a house in / hill,
,ord A._,l ihte'euild bi
e delay.,
noble lu''' -vii 3°rne de
4 k. th
ee, to sal. -.Ara e app,
sh imp° '11441,71,,, and u
notice 0,1 •) " it, lA]
in print' wir. personaw th
quiring e to°Lte, , ieft ti
1 breatble,,,' I,titikt bill \\lli
shoulc' esgt,:s the, ha
Irelaricite' t'lvn eed that
ait Id 6 !Hear.)
ted billso,„ i „.'1,0.L4,1 o,r pr
!tO OW-, 1 , u,
recedel?l, ,alAew,,t,',ll'iNox
I establs,:i , eoupt -"Y exe
!formed :A4 ' Ly 4 rY.
honoUrc", :v4adraPi said th
gland. ,f% I iY : disturb
be disri 41 th." Place
The i10P,,, •i 14 l's bill wa
d (Alibi ,
s stood `if therQiier d ,
e di (...
Nit storhas
anatioq 4 i that sys
,o this b, , rillii iiidii thiB as
ld could ty efe,o.ether ge
vote oti 0 t's.te eo-se of the
an to voted ',,,a facticntry,
lose wo'i` tt .."°ll' it
nt e - for the' -
did n-, , , Lor, pur
s and the 'itch.", call
iitit leh h ur
thought - , etir ehe
:4,4;)e Ili fo.fietft th;ite
sercion, Ai. tt,i,lear e goverr
ssed, it 17 •A AL )
ler haom, kb wshoz said,
t that they i,' Lefe" every t
h as throle ' l'er,°te the
°tett d y
most P 4, I krtc,,,,,,e to s
aity of r ,i tle„„--,etits ~,„
'NRO: as his s
ble lorl, ,°t it til!liat minis
this 100,,,,,' ;leo he imeasur
ion to a '`lie'nad no
laud. Pit, b,‘.'• fii Put do
dof tea, ' ciellll;e-At"T, aft
Llbet t for Nei
in favoutri e ere w.ore pro(
it the 113.0 tioluleted, N,
:onsiderati ir d
,0111441,- of itse
if opini°' .%th be no n
, e en., e
J, ta,ti , soul
isters ifirti, ' fore al law, i
•h celcrit' to -,,ne or erecte
wishear.„l , 44Z,ake an in

Wlt4::tll:"esills3eiengeesicis"
tti" inci
that •.4 (1
nr biinst
The`l'Lls bill,
he d3l. 4,4 uenour
real' )ttte,Psed that)
_to that
os. /00 li•lstre:ls°ll, a
up 'el -Cy and
gent].
„ Qa e.
(Use rela
e da_..,5 cf ' he
rio
theref
ngstoev timimtha(
color 1) mkt deterr
hcittent of
tt aolllllo'
,11;tt:(1.4ced ii
state7se ,it hac
pertYrdic t(Hear,
r.)
IL Veve e disci
tis lv_e enan
effiai!vo c4forere an
inre,c 7114,e deela
‘e forwa
solo! The ti
tit, I, fra
he pc, .0141 ligKt 1
:hee,;.,l 0 Peace
h theref
lktl')tise, was
rece.;l coll.preser
r 20quen
ioo°„re )as cro
e r , were
itte, 're date
adora tLeY were
the ," f ter coui
make the to
hey
Co OU
be 6 bopc
postr° Pts,4ght
4 qt;'ed ad
not J" Ne ?tits
to' °' ( otiv"letice
.
The f