The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-05-22 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD

s
iifficClty as march as his noble friend. He was as desirous as he
(Lord t;tanley) was--that there should be a resident minister in
every parish iu the kingdom, .but this he would say, that in-
creasiu as the population of England was, it was not inure
pressed for spiritual than it was for material subsistence.' He
would venture to say that there was no parish in the north of
Eng,land that, in proportion to the amount of its. population,
was better supplied with spiritual iustruction than this parish of
Kirkham. 'I he population of the parish amounted to 11;000,•
there Were three churches, 'four chapels of ease, itrol the actual
vicar had fitted up one at his own :expense in another township
for public worship. had been stated by his noble friend that
the actual wicaraeas'a nun-resident, and the petition stated that
he was non-resident without. cure of souls. Now, in point of
fact, from the time that he had, become dean'of Ripon he hatt
duty to perform in the church of Ripon, vrhich'wes the parish
church of the town. He hack; in fact, to discharge the duty
of rector of Ripon. -Dr. Webberalischarged at present all the
duties of a parish minister in Ripou.. could not be said,
therefore; that he was nob-resident', for he had the cure of souls.
With respect to the appointment of the master of Kirkham
school to one of the curacies of tire parish, he would observe
that the visitors of the school were elected annually, and that if
one set of visitors disapproved, another might approve of that
appointment. So far from the office of schoolmaster and curate
of the church of Kirkham being separated by law, there was
actually a decree in Chancery, in 1763, by which the master of
the school is compelled to preach Once a month in that church,
and the reporttpf the charity commissioners stated that the
master performed that duty. His noble friend bad said that the
vicar never came to the parish from 1829 till 1832, and that he
came then under peculiar circumstances not tending to his era-
dit. Now the fact was, that Lord Tenterden's bill came into
operation that year, and the vicar came tnKirkham, not with
a view to his own benefit and advantage, but, as' he distinctly
andemphatically stated, for the benefit of his successor, and to
prevent the rights of that successor from being compromised
by any agreement as to moduses which he (the vicar) might
have made with the parishioners. Now, unless the house was
prepared to adopt the doctrine that the right of property was to
be compromised and sacrificed because a party had spiritual
duties to perform, but that the right ofproperty was to be mails-
tained where there were no spiritual ditties to discharge-at all,
unless, ho said, the house was prepared to go that lehgth,
neither his noble friend nor the house could blame the vicar of
Kirkham for protecting the rights of his successor. (Hear.)
He understood from a letter which he had in his haul, and
which he received from the curate of Kirkham, that he had
never heard of thilitcomplaint of his being also the master of
the school until he had seen it stated in this petition. With re-
spect to the conduct of the vicar, this gentleman stated in his
-letter what the vicar had done towards providing adequate
means for spiritual instruction for the people of Kirkham, and
that he haddone it all at his own expense. He (Sir R. Inglis)
would repeat that this was not the case of a vicar deserting his
duty.without taking care of souls elsewhere. (Hear.) Neither
.was it the case of a vicar neglecting the spiritual instruction of
his people, for he had provided two curates for the parish,
sides other eurates for the four chapelries; and histly, it was,
not the case of a man who hail sought emolument Int.-himself,
thotigh ie laviiit had a right to it, 'but the case of,a man
..who;
seeing the rights. of his successor placed in jeopardy, stepped
forward 'to protect and preserve them. (Hear.) His noble'
friend the member for North Lancashire would allow hint to
say, that he was the last person in that house that he (Sir R.
Inglis) would accusehf being willing to sacrifice the rights
ofthe church. His noble friend and he had differed, two years
ago, in respect to a proposition regarding the Irish church;
but his noble friend had since made a stand upon the subject,
and he was stile that upon principle his noble friend would al-
ways defend the united church of the two' countries. (Hear.)
His noble friend would, however, excuse him for saying that
when he brought forward a petition of this kind he should have
guarded himself more than he did on this occasion in his state-
ments. The question, he repeated, here was not whether £l,OOO
a year was too much to pay the vicar, or £3,000 a-year too much
t 9 pay Christchurch College • The. question was, had . they a
right to it? He could not help thinking, that whenever they
should come to take the question of the plus or minus of church
property into their hands, the security.',,r all property would be
endangered. (Hear.) The vicar of Kirkham neither neglected
his duties nor was he avaricious in the amount of tithe that he
sought. He was willing to repeat the statement he had made in
the outset, that if all the holders of church property should be
bound by one and the same rule, the University of Oxford,
which had a inure direct and visible interest in the maintenance
of the church of Engliind, would be ready to act upon the new
rule which his noble friend would apply to the church property
iu the possession of Christchurch College. But his nob:e friend
was wrung in supposing that a new principle. One college in
Oxford that he:e £2,000 a-year impropriate tithes had surrend-
ered the leases so as to increase the value of the livings in the
various parishes from £:1,000, which they were in the aggre-
gate, to £B,OOO per annum. He was aware that legal difficulties
might operate in other cases, but he stated this fact to show
that the principle advocated by his noble friend had already
been adopted and recognized In Oxford. The University of
Oxford, therefore, had not to learn that lesson even from his:
noble friend, whom they had highly respected.
After a few observations from Mr. Harvey, Mr. Cobbett. and-
another member, the-petition was °Meted to lie on the table.
THE LATE MINISTRY.
Mr. E. BOILER presented a petition from a parish in Staf-
fordshire, expressing regret at the resignation of the late minis-
try. Their intended measures were, in the opinion of the
petitioners, calculated to benefit the country, while the appro-
priation resolution, in reference to the Irish church, which the
late ministry had ineffectually opposed, would, if acted upon,
tend to the encouragement of papery and the danger of the na-
tional church. The honourable tuember observed that the
petition was numerously and respectably signed.
r. O'CONNELL.—It would have been only becoming, then
in these respectable persons, if they had been a little more de-
,
cent in their languege.
The petition being presented, Mr. O'Connell desired the
clerk to read the paragraph in which the ivied "popery" was
contained. This was dote amidst some laughter; and, no fur-
ther observations being made, the petition was ordered to lie on
the table. •

Mr. C. FERGUSSON presented a petition in support of the es-
tablished church of Scotland, and then gave notice that on the
27th instant he would present a petition from the East India
Company for a reduction of the duties on sugar and other arti-
cles, the produce of the Vast Indies
Mr. S. CaawFott D presented a petition from the presbyterians
of the parish of Killehigh, in the county of Down, praying for
the extinction of tithes, The petition was signed 'by 800
.pres-
byterian landholders, and the signatures to it were exclusively
presbyterian,in.order to disprove the statement which the noble
lord (Castlereagh) had been understood on a former occasion
to make, that the presbyterians of the north of Ireland were
favourable to the syStein of tithes.
Lard CASTLEREAGH observed, that he should.not have said
one word on this occasion had he not been pointedly alluded to
by the honourable gentleman opposite. hie denied that he had
ever-said that the presbyterians m the north of Ireland were fa-
vourable to the present system of tithes, and asserted that the.
statements to that effect which had been put into his mouth by
the newspapers were altogether incorrect. He admitted that
the petition, from the signatures attached to it, was deserving
of respect. It came from a body of presbyterians, from when'
he differed most conscientiously, and. it went to the establish-
ment of the voluntary principle, not only as regarded the minis-
ters of their own creed but also as regatded the ministers of the
established church. He differed from the petitioners entirely
on that point, though be admitted their respectability. Ire
thought that it was a-little too much for the honourable member
for Dundalk to sa,y, that a petition coming from the presbyte-
rians of two parishes, and signed by not more than 800 persons
out of a population of 15,000, represented the feelings of the
presbyterians of the county of Down. The petitioners com-
plained of the tithe system. He had expected that the bill
introduced by the late government would hare removed the
complaints and mitigated the prejudices which existed upon
that subject. He was sorry to find that his expectations were'
disappointed. Now that the honourable member had gone over
to the other side of e house, he (Lord Castlereagh) hoped
that he (Mr. S. Crawford) would he able to support that tithe
bill, with the appropriation clause inserted in it, on the ground,
that, if carried, it would give satisfaction both to presbyterians
and to catholics.

After a further short discussion this petition was laid on the
table.

THE BOROUGH STAFFORD.
An hon. Member moved for a `
writ for the borough of Stafford,.
in the room of Sir P. H. Goderiche, who had accepted the
chiltern hundreds.
Mr. DrvEvr moved as an amendment, that the writ be sus-
pended until Monday the 22d of June. The hon. gentleman
grounded his motion upon the bribery which existed at that
place in the election of 1832,. the details of which he stated at
some length. -
Mr. H. BULWER seconded the amendment.
A short debate ensued in which Sir Robert Peel supported
the amendment. The right hon. baronet after stating his rea-
sons for doing so, said that he should reserve to himself the
right of adopting what course he might think it best to pursue
with respect to the graver question of disfranchisement, when
that subject came before the house.
The amendment-of Mr. Divett was agreed to.
THAMES TUNNEL
re COMPANY.
Mr. WALTER begged to new the subject to which he was
about to call the attention of the right hon. Chancellor of the
Exchequer on Friday. Ile had recently seen a statement that
a considerable sum of money—he believed upwards of £30,000
—had been advanced to the Thames Tunnel eoinpany, this sum
being only-ia portion of a gross amount of £270,000, which it
appeared governme.t. was entitled to advance to the company
under act 'of parliament. - He was ignorant, as he believed
many otherinctividuals were, that such an act had been passed;
but he now understood that it was passed on the last day of the
session of ISM. As he consider& the remaining 1:2.10,000 in
some jeopardy, if advanced to the Company, he now wished to
ask the right hon. gentleman whether he had any objection to
lay before ttre-itoosu all the information that the government
had received; encouraging them to make that grant; or if be.
would allow hint (Mr. Walter) to make such a selection from
the papers respecting it, as might appear necessary in case he
should feel justified in making a motion upon the subject.
Mr. Rice said that on Friday he had requested the hon.
Member for Berkshire to postpone his question till he (Mr.
Rice) should have an opportunity of inquiring into the subject;
and on looking,at the-acts of the fait session be saw that Mower
had been. given to government to grant the Thames funnel
Company the sank mentioned in Exchequer hills. A sum of.
£30,000 had been already issued under the restriction that it
was only to be applied to the " under water" works, by way of
experiment, previous to a further issue. The advance was
made on- the security of the whole property of the company.
He should feel no difficulty in letting the hon. member have a
copy of the Treasury minute under which the advance had been
mink, and if other documents. were required to elucidate the
subject, the hon. member could have them.
I he houSe then resolved itself into a committee of supply.

BRITISH MUSEUM.
Sir Eciußtur PEEI. moved that the sum of 417,705 should he
granted to defray the estimated expenditure of the British Mu•
sewn for the ensuing veal.

OUDNASZCE ESTIMATES.
Colonel L. !Inv rose to bring forward the Ordnance esti-
mates, but spoke in so low a tone as to be nearly inaudible. We
understood him to say that the estimates haviu,, been prepared
by the late government, the first thing he had done on his ac-
cession to office was to direct his attention to them, With the
view of ascertaining whether they had been framed so as to
secure the efficiency of the service, and at the same rime with
a due regard to economy, and he was pleased to find that in both
particulars they were perfectly satisfactory and such as the
house ought to receive and pass. Since the estimates were
passed last year no material alteration had taken place with
respect to the establishments connected with the Ordnance, and
therefore no considerable saving could be effected. The reduc-
tions had certainly been carried as far as, under existing cir-
cumstances, it was possible to proceed with them. It should be
recollected that Sir J. Kempf was Master of the Ordnance from
1830 to 183.1; no less than 600 offices of different descriptions
connected with the civil department were abolished by which
Means a saving of £46,691 was effected, besides which the sala-
ries of the remain;rig officers were reduced, making a total an-
nual saving of £55,097. The transfer of the doprit in Tooley-
street to the Tower had commenced and although this would
occasion an additional current expense, the prospective saving
would he considerable. There was, in the present estimate, as
compared with that of last year, an increase of £26,298 under
the head of the commissarial supplies, which was owing to the

- -

•
rise in the price of forage ~but notwithstanding this the estimate
for the pres ent.year was less than that for.the last. The hon..
and.gallaut member concluded by moving the first vote—namely,
that the sum of £71,193 begranted`for defraying the salaries of
the master-general and principal officers and clerks belonging
to the offices in the Tower, Patl-mail, and Dublin. •
This and the other sums applied for were granted.
.The-`..oathS abolition the'`.‘ merchant-seamen's:hill"
were forwarded a stage in coliirrritteu.
DowialtGEn SEAMEN.
Sir-J. GRAHAM roofed that a return might be,laid on the
table froin the foreign consuls of the seamen tha(had been dig,
charged'abroad sinee,tbe year 1830.

ANNUAL. INBRAINITY BILL.
11Ie. BARING brought up the annual indemnity bill, which was
read a first titue, and ordered to be read a second time on Mon-
day next.
Adjourned at a quarter past nine o'clock.

ROUSE OF LORDS—Tuusn 111.
The Earl of ABOYNE presented a petition from the parish of
Kincardine O'Neal, in the county of/Aberdeen, praying for ad-
ditional church accommodation in Scotland.
Lord' BEXLEY presented a similar petition from a parish in
Scotland.

Conyers' Divorce Bill went through a committee.
The Earl of Itosstmay presented several petitions from pa-
rishes in Scotland against any grant of public money for addi-
tional church accommodation in that country.
The Earl of Shaftesbury then put the qnestion, " That this
house do adjourn to Thursday next," 'when
LordBROCGHAIr said, before the house adjourned ho wished
to offer an obseriatien relative to some statements that had been
made elsewhere, and which had appeared in the ordinary chan-
nels of daily information, -on the sUi ject. of the new Poor Law
Bill. It had been asserted that certain provisions contained in
that bill enabled the overseers of workhouses to separate man
and wife; and those who objected, to suCh a power were repre-
sented as intending to propose that the enactment upon this
poiut should he taken out of the bill. Now., one reason against
a proceeding of that description was this—namely, that it was
impossible to repeal such an enactment, as the bill contained
nothing of the kind. There was not one tittle in the new bill
relative ,to any such power for the separation of husband and
wife that did not exist before the preient act was passed; and
he could positively state, after the roost minute inquiry amongst
the commissioners and assistant commissioners, that no such
separation had taken place under the authority and conditiOns of
the new act; but that whatever ciicuinstances of that kind might
have occurred were entirely separate from the authority of the
board of commissionet s r the provisions of the act, and must have
taken place under the old law, which had existed time out of mind.
The matter had been discussed, and had been discouraged, in
that house; and there was nothing in the new act that autho-
rized parish officers to send husbands away from their wives.
It was a fiction, a pure and absolute fiction, of some person's
imagination. It was never intended by any human being con-
nected with this bill, or by the board of commissioners, either
with reference to the metropolis or to the proVinces; that such
a power should be. given. That, however, the overseers should
claim the right of separation, not under the new law, but under
the old law—that there might be such a desire, on their part,
Was very possible. But let those who objected to this principle
please to recolletit e circumstances which led to the necessity
of a species of sepa n—that of placing the wives in one part
of a building and the bands in another. There was no ques-
tion about the fact, that married couples could not have'sepa-
rate rooms. There was, then, in the workhouse, a room like a.
barrack, with a row of 36 or 40 beds on each side; and he would
ask whether any decent modest woman would like to undress
herself at nightond to dress herself in the morning, in the pre-
sence of all the inmates of such a place ? Finding that poor
hilt modest women were adverse to such a plan, the overseers
applied themselves b) the old law, and, in conformity with it,
they placed the husbands in one ward and the wives in another.
Now, if those gentlemen who complained of thii system would
advance or give a draught for £900,000 to effect the object
which they had in view, he was certain that the overseers would
be exceedingly obliged to them. The calculation was, that to
give to each married couple a separate room would require
nearly, if not wholly, £900,000, and that being subscribed,
there would be no necessity for the overseers to act upon the
old law. —The house then adjourned to Thursday next.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TuEsnay.
NEWSPAPERS.
Mr. Roast:ex presented several petitions praying for a re-
peal of the stamp duty on newspapers.
Mr. II ALFORD presented a petition from the town of Leices-
ter against the ecclesiastical courts hill.
Colonel L. liar presented a petition from inhabitants of the
borough of Peterhead against a grant of money to provide fur-
Aber accommodation in the churches of Scotland. •
Captain Alsacee presented a petition from the inhabitants
of Clapham ago t the appropriation of the revenues of the
Irish church to an ut ecclesiastical purposes.
A number of petit] Were resented from licensed victuallers
in different parts of thengdom, praying for the abolition of
the iucteased.duties on spirit licenses.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
Mr. Wes 's moved fur leave to bring in a bill for the amelio-
ration, general diffusion, and permanent support of the educa-
tion of the people of Ireland. The hon. geutlenian disclaimed
any factious views in taking up this question, and, in urging the
necessity for the adoption of the measure he meant to propose,
he said, now, when steam was pouring forth its wonders—w,hen
population was increasing with great rapidity—when unions for
vile purposes (hear, hear) were increasing among the pr!Pula-
lion with equal rapidity—when they had taught tltepoptuation
in the three countries which constituted their empire at home
that they were entitled to a share in their own government, and
when they had actually given them a share in ;t, the tine had
come when it was the -duty of the legislature to see that the pen-
pie were qualified to use that pover with which they were in-
vested—to see that they could administer to the future destinies
of the country in good and not in evil; and that they did not
convert to mischief those instruments which, after a long strug-
gle, had been placed at last in their hands: By the bill which
lie intended to introduce he proposed to establish in Dublin a
hoard of national education, to be presided over by the chief
secretary for Ireland. He would constitute the board by taking
a catholic and a protestant archbishop, a-clerical representative
of the Presbyterian body, a layman, from each of, the four pro-
vinces, and another lay member front Dublin. The appoint.
ment of the members of the board to he in the hands of the
Lord-Lieutenant of It eland. The board to be empowered. to
-bnild schools, school houses anti residences for teachers—to, es-
tablish and matt:min schools for teachers and fie. the hurribler
classes generally, and to annex to those schools model schools.
The hoard was also to he empowered to build schools, but the
parishes should he cnmpelled to keep them in.repair and to-pay
or contribute towards the masters' salaries. The hon. gentle-
man said, in conclusion, they might found institutions, change
laws, and build up-new forms of government, but if they did not
proceed on the basis of religion, by which alone men's minds
could be prnperly trained, they would merely construct a Babel.
If Ireland was to be regenerated, it must he effected by en-
lightening the minds of het people. On that alone he rested
his hope of ameliorating the condition of his country, and the
motion with which he was about to conclude would show whether
pledges were to be redeemed and,hopes and aspirations to be re-
alized. He was satisfied that there were no means of cultivat-
ing ally country, except through its sympathies and its know-
ledge.• The people of Ireland were informed but not educated,
and in order to improve them it was necessary to begin not
with words, but things. It was not enough to teach the people
mere reading and writing, they must obtain knowledge in eider
to enable them to enjoy freedom. • The hon. gentleman con-
cluded with moving for leave to bring in a bill for the ameliora-
tion, general diffusion, and permanent support of the education
of the people of Ireland. (Cheers.) •
Mr. O'BRIEN seconded the motion. '
Lord MioRPET/1 said that he certainly could not, at present,
pretend to possess any official knowledge of the details of the
subject into which the hoe. member for Waterford had travelled.
Ile undoubtedly approved of the board of education founded by
his noble friend the member for North Lancashire, which it ap-
peared to be part of the hon. member's scheme to confirm and
extend. At all events, looking to the paramount importance of
the subject, he would not throw any impediment in the way of
the introduction of the bill, Though part of the groundwork
of the hon. member's plan tippeared somewhat ambitious; he
hoped that his bill would be found to contain provisions calcu-
lated to promote the public benefit. (Hear, hear.)
Leave was given to bring in the bill.
SLAVE TRADE.
Mr. P. BUXTON rose to move an address to the crown, on the
subject of the slave trade in place of the address which he
moved last Tuesday, but which, on account of some objections
taken to its form and length, was ultimately withdrawn. The
hon. member, after briefly recapitulating the grounds which on
that occasion he urged in support of the motion, proposed the
following address, whieli he thought was couched in very tem-
perate language:—" That an humble address. be presented to
his Majesty, to inform his Majesty that this house has learned
with deep regret, from the documents which have been laid be-
fore it, that the traffic in slaves still continues to be carried on,
under the protection
.of die flags of foreign nations, particularly
ander those of Spain and Portugal, to an extent almost as great
as at any former period of its existence, and attended with cir-
cumstances of additional cruelty and horror; that this house
particularly calls the attention of his Mejesty to the :conduct
hitherto pursued by the governments of Spain and Portugal,
who are bound, not only• by the most solemn treaties, hut by
the payment oflarge sums of money, and the remission 'of debts
:due to this country, totally to abolish this nefarious traffic ; that
this house, with a view to put an end to this iniquitous 'and de-
testable trade, hutntity beseech his Majesty to enter into nego-
ciations with his allies, for the purpose of revising all the treaties
having for their object the suppression of this traffic, in order to
reduce the terms and stipitlaCons contained therein into one
solemn league lietween all the high contracting parties, and to
introduce into such general treaty, Ist—an extension of the
limit to the right of search 1,1.11,4 whole.of the western and
eastern coasts of Africa and the Island of Madagescar, and to
such.distance from these coasts as shall insure the capture of
all slaves ; and an agreement. that this right ofe,earch shall be
reciprocal between all the high contracting:parties: 2d—that
the right of seizure shall he extended to vessels etinipped for the
purpose of trading. in slaves, although not actually having
slaves on board : 3—an agreement that all such veseels ns may
be condemned by the mixed commission courts shall forthwith
te broken up, or otherwiseseffectually destroyed • and, 4th—a
stipulation that the trade in slaves shall be declaredpiracy."
Mr. H uste 'seconded the motion, which, after a few words
from Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Robinson, and Mr. F. Buxton in re-
ply, was agreed to.

Mr. F. Bux•rox postponed a motion which stood on the paper,
relative to the state of the aborigines in the British settlements,
to the 14th of July, in cons•Enence of certain papers connected
with the subject not being yet printed,

WRIT LICENSES.
• Mr. Dsvxrr, after presentingpetitions froni the licensed vic-
tuallers of Exeter and other places, praying for the repeal of
the additional duty on spirit licenses, observed that he 'intended
to move that the act by which that additional dutv.was imposed,
and which he was sure the house would never have passed, if
they could have anticipated the extensive injury and oppression
it had led to, should be taken into considerati(,n in a committee
of the whole house. It would be in the recollection of the house.
that under the 6th (b-Age Iv;, c: 81, a scale of duty was im-
posed on spirit-houses,. e'pmmencing with houses rated under
£lO., and ending with houses rated at £5O. all houses rated
above that sum Paying no increased duty. During the last ses-
sion the then Chancellor of the Exchequer stated, that an addi-
tional duty might be imposed on retail spirit-dealerS with,'
advantage to the revenue; and he succeeded in persuading the
house that he should be able to raise the amount of duty to the
extent of £I6OIX/0. He believed that the noble lord was mis-
takes; in his calculations. Ile believed that the increased, tax
would he found to have.the effect of diminishing the revenue,
and of encouracing in a very greet degree the practice of smug-
•g!ing. After remarking upon the inequality of the pressure of
this tax, the honourable member concluded-by moving, that the
house should resolve itself intom committee of the whole house.
to consider the operation of 4 5 William IV., c. 75, which
increased the amount of the duty on spirit licenses 50 per cent.,
and of the statute 6 Ge,,rge IV., c. 81.
Lord SAN nom seconded the motion. The noble lord. owing
to the new position in which the Speaker's chair has been pb,e'
ed, it having been advanced several feet into the body of the
house, was not seen at 'all, and was very imperfectly. heat(' by
our reporter. He objected to the present system under which
the tax was levied, on account of the gross inequality with which
the tax operated. He was mot opposed abstraelealy to a tax