The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-04-21 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.-SATURDAY.

The Earl of SHAF TESBURY took his seat on the woolsack, in
the absence of the Lord Chancellor, at 2Uminutes to five,o'clock
The new ministers, and several of their supporters, took theirl
seats on the ministerial benches.
Lord BitouGris NI, after he had delivered his judgment in the
case of Sharpe v, Sharpe, immediately walked over to the mi-
nisterial side of the house, in his way bowing to the Duke of
Richmond and the Earl of Ripon, as inviting those noble lords,
who were sitting on the cross-benches, to accompany him, pre-
sented a petition from the ministers and elders and congrega-
tion of Johnstone, in the west of Scotland, praying that no
grant of the public money be made for building additional
churches in Scotland. The noble and learned lord also pre-
sented a similar petition from another place in Scotland.
_The Earl of Wick Low then rose to present a petition from a
parish in the county of Meath, in favour of the tithes bill brought
into the ()thar house of parliament by the first lord of the trea-
sury of the late government, and against the appropriation of
any of the revenues of the church to any other than strictly
protestant church purposes. The petitioners stated that should'
the late resolution of the House of Commons be carried into
effect the consequence would be that the protestants of Ireland
would be compelled to leave their native country. The peti-
tioners concluded by praying, that if the legislature were de-
termined to carry the resolution of the House of Commons in-
to effect, it would apply as much of the money to be taken
from the church as would enable them to emigrate to some
other more peaceable country (a laugh.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition from the
city of Waterford, praying for some measure to prevent inti-
midation at elections in Ireland.

THE NEW MINISTRY.

LO-rd MELBOURNE rose and said=my lords, I rise to address
your lordships for the purpose of informing you of that which
perhaps you may have heard through other channels, but which
it is my duty tts state to you, that his majesty has been pleased
to appoint me the first lord of the treasury, and that I and my
ealeagues-hui-e this day been sworn into and received the seals
of office. With respect to the difficulties under which the ad-
ministration has been formed—and great and many they have
been? some indeed of a peculiarly severe and mortifying nature
--itas mit now my business to say anything; nor, indeed, need
I say more of the principles upon which it has been constructed
than that they are the principles on which my former government
was based, and which to a great extent have beeu recognised, con-
firmed,and strengthened by those who succeeded us in office. They
are principles of safe and prudent, and truly efficient reformation
—principles whose tendency is not to subvert or endanger, but, on
the contrary, to improve and strengthen and establish the insti
tutions of the country. In reference to those particular sub.
jects which lately engrossed the attention of parliament, and
have been alluded to by some noble lords on the other side—l.
mean to those measures which relate to ecclesiastical govern-
ment—allow me to assure your lordships, and through your
lordships to assure the country, that every measure contem-
plated in reference to that subject will have for its end and pur..
pose the promotion and increase of true piety sad religion'
throughout the whole and every part of his majesty's domini-
ons (hear, from the ministerial side)l These are all the obser-
vations which I shall make ou the present occasion. in the
hurry and pressure under which these arrangements have been
formed, I apprehend that all the formal 'business connected
therewith has not been brought before, the othe honse..of".ptir-
liament; and that in order to 'finish it, it must; iTilekeekitl,l to
!er4jeurn that house to Monday next. Shout!. your
,Itird#ipt
'llitnit'fit to pursue that course, and that it appears neeessarY.Tto
meet on Monday next, I shall be prepared to Make the unitise),
bot if Hot, I shill move the adjournment of the house 'fesAidax
the 12th. . 1 apprehend—under all the circumstances of4e
cases—considering the great pressure of business that remain*
to be transacted, and that those who are to conduct the bust;
ness in the other house cannot be in their placei 'before that
day—that your lordships will not think the adjourninent to
Tuesday, the 12th of May, too look; I shall therefore move
that this house, at its rising, do adjourn to Tuesiday, the 12th
of May.
Tse Duke of Inc HMOND thought it was impossible that their
lordships could adjourn for f o long a period. He would sug,
gest that their lordships do adjourn to the 30th instant; with the
understanding that no public business be transacted until the
12th of May. It would be necessary to swear witnesses to be
examined before the 'committee. on secondary punishments,
and be, therefore, Moved that their lordships do adjourn to the
30th instant.
Lord ALVA NLEY said--I wish to take this opportunity of en-
abling the noble lord (Lord 'Melbourne) to give an expiauation
to the house respecting certain statements which are in general
circulation before the question ofadjournment he put. (" H ear,
hear," from the Duke. of Cumberland.) I wish to know wbes
ther the noble viscount has or has nut secured for his govern-
ment the powerful aid of Mr. O'Connell and his
.party, and, if
so, what are the terms on which it has been obtained? In or-

tive party, among whom were the Marquess of Chandos and Sir
Binary times the noble lord might have refused to answer this
question; but these are not ordinciry times_ It was only a few
months since Mr. O'Connell opposed the government of the
noble viscount in the most strenuous and decided manner; and
but a short time before the learned gentleman was denounced,
in every way except by name, in the King's speech. (Hear,
hear.) I, therefore, wish to know, if the noble lord has changed
his opinions, and on what terms that change has taken place?
(Loud cries of " Hear.") Mr. O'Connell's aid‘was not to be
secured for nothing; and I. think the house-has a right to know
what is the equivalent which has been given for his aid. This
is my reason for asking a question so early, and I trust the no-
ble lord will not refuse to answer. Only a few months ago, and
for many mouths, before, that honourable and learned gentle-
man had lost no opportunity of stating his views with respect to
the repeal of the union and the destruction of this housel4 With
regard to the repeal of the union, Mr. O'Connell addressed a
letter to a noble friend of mine, who then filled the office of Se-
cretary of State for the Home Department. The right honour-
able and gallant gentleman who was recently at the head of his
majesty's governinent—(lond cheers from the opposition) yes,
I say the right honourable and gallant gentleman, for dining.
his short continuance in office he exhibited in that arduous,.
glorious. and memorable struggle, which must ever distinguish
his government, a degree of moral courage, of patriotism and
invincible fortitude, such as I am convinced has never been,'
perhaps never will be, surpassed. (Cheers.) That right hon.
gentleman has, in the House of Commons, already read the let-
ter written by Mr. O'Connell to which I am about to refer.
After scone appeals to the members of the then existing minis-
try, the letter goes on thus :—" I do feel the powerful influence
of duty which commands me to make the utmost efforts in order
to procure for Ireland the repeal of the union." This is plain
enough; but he is still plainer, and his language is, perhaps,
more forcible in an address which he made at a meeting of the
Anti-Tory Association. He says, " I was never more con-
vinced of the necessity of a repeal of the union, and of establish-
ing a national parliament on College-green. It is not vanity,
but I shall not be satisfied till in that parliament I am hailed by.
some member as the father of my country. The time is not far
distant when the union will be prostrate at our feet, and Ireland
freed from her chains." This address was made not later than
two months ago. With regard to this house, I shall now read
an extract which shows that, without its abolition, this hon. and
learned gentleman will not be contented. It is for your in-
formation, my lords, and for that of the noble lord opposite,
(Lord Melbourne,) upon whom, if he is not already aware of it,
I trust that it will not fail to make the impression which in my
opinion it ought to produce. The hon. and learned gentleman,
in addressing a very numerous meeting, said, " The reform of
the House of Lords is absolutely necessary to establish and se-
cure our popular freedom. lam anxious that that house should
be based on sound common sense; in short, that it should be
converted into an elective assembly.— These, my lords, are
not words of an ambiguous character. Such language, coming'
from such a quarter, is not to be considered as mere words, of
course. Mr. O'Connell has pledged himself, as deeply as any
public man possibly can pledge himself, to subvert the consti-
tution of this house; and I call on the noble lord opposite to
give that information which he is bouud to afford by his charac-
ter and his station as a gentleman, a peer, and a minister of the
crown. I ask him, then, on what terms has he negociated with
Mr. O'Connell, and how far he stands committed to that hon.
and learned gentleman, who most solemnly declares he will
never rest till he has effected the repeal of the union? I call on
the noble lord, as a peer of the realm and a member of this
house, to state how far he coincides with the hon. and learned
gentleman in his project for reducing this branch of the legisla-
ture to so humble a position as that of a mere elective assembly,
Lord BROUGHAM, while Lord Alvanley was in the act of sit-
ting down, rose, and with the utmost vehemence of manner,
said, My lords, I rise to speak to order (cries of " Order.") I
Lord ALVANLEY (addressing the house): I merely rose to
put a question to the other noble' lord. (Cheers.)
Likil BROUGHAM
,with great warmth): And that is the
very reason I answer it. It is—
Here a scene of indescribable confusion occurred. Several
of the tory peers rose from their seats at once, evidently very
much excited, and loud cries of " Order, order" were heard
from all parts of the house.
Lord KEN YON (labouring under great excitement): I rise to
call the noble and learned lord (Brougham) to order. My
noble friend (Lord Alvanley) did not address himself to the
noble and learned lord ; he did not put the question to him.
Did the noble and learned lord rise to order? (Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM (with great warmth and earnestness of
gesture): Most unquestionably I did, and according to the
strictest forms of the house, I am right in speaking to order.
How does the noble lord know that I did not mean to ground a
motion upon the course taken by the noble lord (Alvanley) ? I
~interrupted that noble lord to call him to order; but when I
Fut up, I. understood the noble lord to say that he had done.
l'hen I did not call him to order, but I craved permission of my
noble friend (Melbourne),to allow me to advise him not to give
an answer to the question of the noble lord, which for irregu-
larity is utterly unprecedented in this house. (Hear, hear.)
The measures of the government will show what course my noble
friend has taken. .Did any one ever before hear of a minister
being called upon to tell whom the king meant to appoint to
office, or what arrangements were in progress with a certain in-
dividual, and whether that individual had been gained over to
the government? I advise my noble and learned friend not to
sanction such questions by giving them an answer. (Hear.)
Earl WICKLOW (;with great warmth): My noble friend (Lord
Alvanley) is perfectly justified in putting the question to the
noble lord. And the noble and learned lord's (Lord
Brougham's) conduct, in rising to order in the extraordinary
and unprecedented manner he has done, is most disorderly.
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," and great confusion.)
Lord BROUGHAM, who seemed-to be labouring under still
greater excitement, was about to rise again, but was antici-
pated by
Lord MELBOURNE, who said, perhaps the noble lord was not
greatly out of order iu putting this question, but, at the same
time, I think that the noble lord might have put it in plainer
terms, and not accompanied it with a greater number of obser-
vations than is usual. The noble lord asks me bow far I coin-
cide in opinion with Mr. O'Connell? Why not at all. (Loud
cheers.) It is impossible for any question to receive a simpler
answer. The noble lord also asks me whether I entertain the
same opinions which I did on a former occasion, which I appre-
hend to be when the coercion act was under "consideration s I
answer him that I certainly do entertain the same opinions, and
that I persevere in them. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) The
noble lord then asks me whether I have taken any means to
secure the assistance of Mr. O'Connell, and upon what terms?
I do not know whether I have the assistance of Mr. O'Connell
or not, but I say most distinctly that I have taken no means to-
secure it (loud cheers) and I most particularly state, that I have
entered into no terms whatever, nor have said anything, from
which any inference can be drawn, in order to secure that indi-
vidual's support. To the noble lord's question, therefore, I give
a most decided negative; and if he has been told anything to
the contrary, he has been told what is false, and without foun-
.dation. (Cheers.) I have only further to say, that I will resist
every attempt to carry the measure referred to by the noble
I lord.

Lord ALVANLEY : I have received a most satisfactory answer
from the noble lord, and thereforo have no reason to regret
having put the question, nor to think that I merited the rebuke
of the noble and learned lord. (Cheers.)
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM.—I trust that the house and the
people will be undeceived with regard to the imputation which
had been cast upon the overnment of desiring to conciliate
Mr. O'Connell. The noble viscount has distinctly stated that
the same principles would be acted upon as he acted on before,
when the church question was under consideration, and that he
was still determined to promote the interests and extend the
usefulness of piety and true religion. Every one knew the
cans 3 which compelled his Majesty's late government to resign
—namely, the principle of appropriating church property to
secular purposes. I beg, therefore, to ask the noble viscount
(Melbourne) distinctly and emphatically, whether lie is pre-
pared to bring forward a measure for relief from the grievances
of the Irish tithe system, and appropriating the surplus revenue
to other than religious purposes.
Lord MELBOURNE.-It is inconvenient to answer such
questions, because before doing so it would be requisite to enter,
at large into a difficult and extensive subject; but I do not hesi-
tate to say (here the noble lord spoke with remarkable emphasis
and energy of manner) I
DO NOT HESITATTE TO SAY THAT I
CONSIDER MYSEI F PLEDGED TO ACT ON THE RESOLUTION OP
THN OTHER HOUSE.
The announcement, coupled with the energetic manner in
which it was made, produced an extraordinary effect upon the
house.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY.—I have a petition, signed
by upwards of 60,000 protestants in the north of Ireland, to
present to this house, against the principle embodied in the re-
!Nlutiou lately adopted by the other house respecting the appro.
viation of church property in Ireland. I have kept it back
for some time, as I thought that in the event of the late govern-
meet remaining in office, it might not have been necessary to
present it. But after the declaration which has just been made
by the noble lord, I shall certainly take an early opportunity of
layin,, it on yonr lordships' table, after the Easter recess. I
am grad to hear from the noble lord that he has put a veto of
exclusion on Mr. O'Connell and his radical crew. (A laugh.)
Lord Tama' Ast here interrupted the noble marquis by an
observation respecting the House of Commons, the purport of
which we could not catch.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY resumed.—l am bound to
respect the opinions and decisions of the other house, and I
think I have lately afforded an unequivocal proof that I do so—
(loud cries of "bear, hear!" from the Duke of Cumberland
and other opposition peers); but I must say that I cannot,
respect the late resolution, as it was the result of a union with
Mr, O'Connell and his tail, with the party of a noble lord—a
union which was celebrated by a late public dinner (the dinner.
to Lord John Russell.)
.Lord MELBOURNE.-1 never used the word veto. What I
said was, that I had taken no means to ensure the assistance of
Mr. O'Connell, nor had I entered into any stipulation whatever
•
with him; but I never used the words veto or exclusion, and,
indeed, should be sorry to have employed them.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY.--1 am sure that any con-
nexion with Mr. O'Connell or his tail, would be the curse of
this country. Aftei public meetings and public dinners have
been held, at which Mr. O'Connell and his party have been
pre int with noble lords and their parties, it certainly is very
gra tfying to hear from the noble lord a positive denial of any
such union of interests.
ADJOURNRIENT OF THE HOUSE.

Lord M ELBOU R NE.--With respect to the adjournment of the
house, I have no objection to the adoption of the course pro-
posed by the noble duke (Richmond), provided, it be under-
stood that no public business is to be done till the 12th of May.
—That understanding being come to, the house adjourned till
'the 30th instant.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—SATURDAY.
The Speaker took the chair at half-past three o'clock.
CORK ELECTION.
Sir JOHN BYNG, the chairman of the Cork election commit-
tee,_ brought up the report of the committee, finding. that the
sitting members, Colonel Chatterton and Joseph Leycester,
„Esq., had not been duly elected, and that Dr. Baldwin and
Daniel Callaghan, Esq., had been duly. elected and ought to
'have been returned, but that neither the petition nor the Op-
position to it had been frivolous or vexatious.
The clerk of the crown attended to amend the return, which
having been done, Mr. D. Callaghan took the oaths and his
scat for the city of Cork.
On the motion of Mr. O'Connell; the ballot upon the Canter-
'bury election petition was postponed from April 30 to May 14.