The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-02-22 00:00:00

lir. O'CoxNate rose to address the house. Often as he had
eatleua u
. .
_,,4,,,,,, o red to direct its sympathies towards the wrongs of his
'..--.. ----- '‘'''' ie""arrY, unhappy, ill-fated Ireland, he never felt so painfully
to sehettos as at that moment. He would most carefully avoid all
aearr conceived that the ancient practice was 413,,
faience of expression,—indeed, he felt far too deeply to vent
-edreiss of grievances before the house voted
crsuriros'74,loeling in mere vituperation. He. had on a former occasion
ire he for one could not suffer the house to eeet rate %Ilse of the terms brutal and sanguinary" iia reference ta
uotil he had claimed redress for the grievance in answer to the speech from the throne ; that ad-
h the inequality of taxation. The laws con, having since obtained the sanction of that house, he
abject had been made by the nobility and the !,10- present
a,, longer apply to it the language of reproach. 'His
and were the most oppressive; it was obset'ttlt: nt object was far other than attempting to charactefoo by
always took care to exempt themselves frolnA !c:I:t11.'"-angitage the proceedings of ministers towards Ireland.
and, as a body, were the most unust legislatt;
' 4,4,i `ne Iniunes were so deep, that to denounce them, in mere
aisted in any country. What he had to s „a 1,6„, ve language would deprive grief of its dignity. He could
assertion, but facts, which he would prove, Tif,a,4 to address the house in reference to the threatened mea-
but by a reference to acts of Parliament, anuo i,fei, of !tinkers so as to be knewn to belong to the country ore he sat down, substantiate and convince the
,4,'l,v_uaced by.his accent. He would speak as he most certainly my and gross partiality between the taxation ri Heald feel it his duty to do if ministers threatened to deprive
e poor man, he would surrender all claim to tab People People of England or of Scotland of the benefit of the laws,
common sense. The right hon. secretary fortFSlitutin in their stead the most iron and remorseless des-
sego,
id' that a government must be feared before 4_4 iber . (Hoar') He would speak as Ise should feel if the
The act to which he was about more es eat the jles of Englishmen were threatened with destruction, as he
only inspire hatred,—he scarcely e stamp
_i_:,ltt. gad feel if outlawry were declared against the whole people
orge 111, from which it was necessa'ail iiiihf°tland, as if either were about to be handed over, like his
store than read extracts, without much coran°,4 ti',,,l)ay countrymen, to the tender mercies of two or three
:he taxes imposed by this act, including the C, ih .118s11 military officers, provided they "have been two years
mounted to little less than eight millions a yel t.ie service and have attained the age of 21." (Hear.) In
nobility and landed proprietors paid nothiag/s yornparatively tranquil temper would he address them, hop-
sore no part of this burden, had taken especisii 41 4_01• obtain their ear ni pointing out in their true features, in
wavier and heavier as it descended in its ope_lPt" hauseir hideous deforrni_ yt , themeasures with which his country
mbler classes. The legacy duties on persoill' tre,Plreatened by the King's ministers—measures to which a
at one and ended at ten per cent. Prole , i de„rinOrn Englishman must feel that death would be preferable, sold property was entirely exempted. Thug thee
vavLag hini, as they would, of all the rights of one not born in e nobility were exempted, but the father or
,1 Ira neat slavery. (Hear.) Yes, though an Irishman—a mere
aossess a small funded or other personal prtny that Tan—the iron of despotism had pot so eaten into his soul
ye it even to a child svithout subjecting it to sci As a. l',,e, did not bitterly hate slavery, and dearly love liberty.
duty on any sum exceeding £2O was two Iter.i the wi-,"er of liberty he denounced the cruelty—the madness
stinted to 20. or 30 thousand pounds, this nutlii aadvc,caedness—orthe policy pursued so long towards Ireland,
r cent., and as the amount became greater thstit ill
it alto
it was now endeavoured to crown by ameasure depriv-
I They might laugh at this, but he would ask l 1I„,:,' altogether of the protection of the British laws. (Hear.)
ice ? Would the country laugh with them ttaii,,Were told that the ministers stood so well with that house,
A had asked him to bring forth his magn „i' the they could count on a strong majority ; so undoubting was
answer, he had only to say he had no prote_.
Itear,i)n,.P'uce M the uprightness of their intentions, (hear,
d, but would like to know why that hon. los;', laria,' 'oat ministers, who had already done so much for Ire-
, when he came into possession of his proper!) view ,wouid not seek for such extraordinary powers,_ but with a
le sixty thousand pounds, the sum it ought to it Re e° effecting more good for that country. (Hear, hear.)
I with; supposing the tax to be impartially lehi Illii,"uld Wish to see their claim to despotic power rested on
'd this sum 30 years ago, the nation would not .f ckePast doins.towards Ireland. Let us see what they have
w thet sum, and paid interest on it from that Pei refs .
e, They have proposed two good measures—one of church
conveyances under £2O was 10s., or 2ti per c;i) tait, F., and one respecting corporations. He was ready to ad-
Lndred thousand pounds only one thousand p°.„"s first at that so far as the abolition of the church cess went—the
eat. Thus the poorer man paid 20 times as Ttl %t e't Sir measit was a boon to Ireland, (hear, hear,)
man, who escaped almost scot free. The-dal 'all ii° iarther; besides that its beneficent operations would be
.qually oppressive. It might be said these tbity
a a hurry. He (Mr. Cobbett) had no 'e:te,7l Pr,ospectitve ;it relieved no other existing burden con-
butblli tithe-a, with the monstrous church establishment, audit left the
;rag were done by night, for they never coul-I trile that where it now is—in all its ignominious glory. It was
y day. They duty on a mortgage of £25 1 be wl'at he had met the announcement of the measure cheerily ;
e twenty thousand pounds the duty was only aeheZnot disposed to retract a letter of his approbation of its
pounds per cent. on the poiir, and two shillioF hai te ,1
-111 a -4-eney ;it was too seldom that such opportunities of
rich man, and he would ask, were they whQat i/le reg tneasures of kindness towards Ireland were afforded him.
sassed these duties honest men ? An aunlety A 4 ,Peated that the abolition of the vestry cess would be a
as subect to stamp duty one ef V-d lik l', Ireland. He would go further, and say, that it would
y £25, instead of £2OO, and it' it were granoteol tat'Thaselfehn h'--- a greater extent than the noble lord (Althorp)
any greater sum it only paid the same. d e „lie had stated. But no other burden or grievance would
• an amount of two pounds was subject to aJ th
p E e POoVed by the proposed church reform, and the war against
rag, and the largest sum on any bill was ~il
,st,t, Jensen's pigs and his tenth
.potato would not be even
7hy should the needy tradesman be subje,cp ',therge`' dby it. Then why, it might be asked, did he the
whynot keep up the proportion upon ali,.oel (3'1'4(4 Vening SO warmly approve of it ? Because it established
rtion might have arisen from oversight or ineutd l'tet, 4 Princi.pk, (hear,) because it admitted what had been so
attribute it to any but interested motives, thataa ~staai:!„nied in that house and elsewhere, that the Irish church
one pound per cent. and the rich sixpence or''a the „ninent was far too massive and costly, for the wants, ay,
same kind of instruments. The henourable,sa ;or Pt,ritual wants, of its members—according to the noble
the inequality on life insurance's, and isal°,ol; Pra.,‘33ci‘ least twice too large. (Hear, hear.). But the noble
tors might have been fox-hunting squires, rap colkeasure recognized an admirable principle, from which
doted with business, generally, but an these .al
.qat, „ not shrink, namely, that where there were no spiritual
m good care of themselves, for the duty on alt,, ;leiatatsul, ere was to be no spuitual receiver of tithes and charch
f fifty pounds was 2s. 6d., and on fivebiro made to -eth and he, therefore, hailed it with satisfaction. Having
sly 155., and above that sum, up to a million,
~,athey iiiie admission of these excellent principles of church reform,
to £l. Had he (Mr. Cal:sett) seen in there) 1:941y 41:1 invest their ecclesiastical commississioners with as
ad'of his Majesty's government any intentio, I`,ll e ~?,,w el) forms and injunctions as they pleased, that admis-
. farthing of taxes of any description he slinnit.lo
,titire benefit not be eluded, and the measure would produce much
is exposition ; instead of doing this, be Wei, Ntilikad eeitlefit (and he was anxious that this should be determined, even at the point of the baya_ ot v hezoi!ewhere) than might be apparent on the face of it.
if necessary. In one instance, however,
e11c.,,,, ,uilre4(re plan of corporation reform was before them he should
s. stamp duties were levied impartially, II n e o h
rid' h Yut -estow upon it every praise to which it was entitled.
on apprentices indentures. These descen ra ialasly°,,,'e might, perhaps, laugh at what he was about to
the premium paid; but then it must be
affect'.obs?l heat'o esi 'ate ef‘,onern. mg those measures, nevertheless he would
of lords, baronets, or parsons, were not
tl tate
of -- ' declare that he hoped to see the day when the
ey seldom became apprentices, andwere muse , ell at the government which had dared to bring forward
ed of in other ways. The auction duty en 'lade to °lltrageous' violation of all law and justice would be
was 7d. in the pound. Property of this kind et '4 the anew teens' for his conduct to the justly indignant Commons
Ito the rich and noble, but every other spec' .t a
b ta- 'as fin-te4 hp ire. (Repeated cheers front the opposition.)
aged to the tradesman, however poor, was e _ as i that 3,
ccept in cases of distress for rent or tithes,. 11
b l')11'" not h- a reformed Parliament—andvoice, too, that
- isusulted aouse that evening, to tell the minister who had
again protected. " No, you may tax the Intl
it you must not touch the property of to h -"erciou
~.''aetion the nlistaken—that a reformed Parliament would not
e suslieusion of all law, and would indignantly spurn
Would a reformed parliament sit in that pActlea„where a
he continuance of these things? He only , ,p• he wule.
Such was the object he then proposed to himself,
peaceable and constitutional remedy was
hese things into consideration; and would '
key I.llgliih..s Much
Ite ei ahA , more anxious to elicit
that on the Ist of March this house do to -.0 (le tel,-,`" Scotch members respecting the proposed despotic
the sentiments of the
on the tendency and effects of the several a` 1 ()WI let •ardB Ireland of ministers, than express his own.
posing the stamp and auction duties." 13..
.ato a cwt
he
understood that if that atrocious measure pass
•IN seconded the motion, and expressed ti, rty `,(1., the people of Ireland will be liable to loss of pro-
cellor of the Exchequer would repeal the o,ll' teasv: personal freedom—may be imrisoned at the mere
Le had said that he would propose in a rely i Ily red of the Lord Lieutenant or the Irish Secretary, without
I
, 1.1,' togertrl 8 whatever, if imprisoned unjustly, for merely meet-
sea admitted, that the duties of which the gi 4 aV, it d er to petition for redress for their grievances. (Hear.)
aplained, were heavier on small than large, ~o 4 this fPended on the mere caprice of the Irish authorities,
Inch there was a less per centage paid in t; rainee„ao religious minds was well worthy of consideration, to
mounts. The hon. gentleman would lio
,'ll. this ice a strictly religious meeting as incurring the censures
was generally observed, because the great I „Ile, if 3:V* But even these provisions were not all; there was
ito avhich these duties referred, were of theft. 4 ',awe %Possible, still more atrocious behind—he meant the
th respect to a duty on real property, if on (01 ,‘.14 r, wr changi•
ng the venue.
seen imposed upon it, in the course of a ,b°„(11'I Ze tiektl_tlai rose to order. He did not attempt to interrupt
eof it would have passed through the 03-tf I,7eottil. "uu• gentleman so long as he confined himself to com-
he stamp duties were now under consideralt L'' the .11. upon the general policy of ministers, but would appeal
an alteration of them, and he put it to the bas,' Mare Nut hon. Speaker whether it was not disorderly and
the last two years it had been possible 0., r ti!ecitailsrY,to the rules and usages of Parliament to allude to the
srward? Some of the lower stamp dnti-listi tise: °` a measure not yet under the consideration of the
cab ,• but the scale proposed by the hon• gee ilf., ti 1%. oßlear.)
l object to altogether. Although the sttorres7 „mar ti,coNaera. had not specified a single detail of any par-
eavier on the smaller than ey did on the gitalt, ' sah dl; he was merely referrinF to the proposed measures
isactions, they could not be said to affect t 4, ,14„ sisters. (" Order," "Chair.' )
ration. (They do.) Perhaps they might
must
,:%. 4.1',?_1:E AKER said that the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Wynn)
lose if they press on the employers, they' Fin tfi, ciletcs, correct in statiug that nothing could be more dis-
e employa He did not mean to queitl!ci, t,tlsa,eY and raore inconvenient to the despatch of the public
the hon. gentleman's facts, but the infer
..i ,t'illathisea, than to discuss the details of a measure not yet sub-
from them. , 'ra liw„, t„,4,,1 ,hefore the house, but the question was, was the
ELL said he thought that the noble IRO' 11 titdlPPlteablo to the observations of the learned member
ie arguments advanced by the hon. gesuid sr a Niite n• (Hear.) The great difficulty which the chair had
made out, he hoped the noble lord won act!' Qttktod with in discussions like the present was, the drawing
tree at once, and not talk of his elevet-eoun eZti2a, line between general comments on what may have
ed he intended to lay on the table of
_„thaund el olZi• l'iokotter of notoriety through publicity, and what might
id by the poor man was equal to the rnienshaej taqate‘e a minute criticism of the details or provisions of a
le would, however, suggest to the ban' at, at,/ 110 t, 'which, as nut yet before the house, the house can
withdrawing his motion for the Pre° re,. earoorral)iogni be left to the discretion
zance., Much must
'aid at some future time. ado,, 1,,,ic `,. taste of the speaker himself, and he trusted the
ember t°
as about to suggest to the hon. member
ht kielt tit, e rig on. ge
1` r 4eli •°4 th . ' ht h ntleman would have the effect of
I substitute for it another, which rais e boo oft big g the
i learned member for Dublin from throwing him-
ye his reseliition'prnattaraun put in to
1,..,a1r. (4,Ruard in the remainder of his address. ( Hear, hear.)
sr of the house, who would then come prop
. 171.14 th °"EL 1. said he was sure re,nroof so mildly conveyed
abject. , his h etlittli he was
hire, if even disposed to forget the rules of debate,
hearer conceived that the motion of e. his r
were to, a; . 4 ,ineas,,4,.B uot. Ile would not speak in reference to an/ parti-
, and straightforward. If they
paiPaliti c,-,:e, Past or prospective, of ministers, but tvould assert
mer House of Commons, they would a A
deer- sat `le tow 411 occasion when they asked £3,000,000 of the
irrupt body. If they were -reformed ln_refl tote
W - tbe °ll°Y to be intrusted to their management, to
there would be a greater show in fay' • 5,..011, th grouacht on which he refused them his confidence.
,/ •a,oti. en h ice.
niii-d us 7;ry wit- 0 ,would not confide the public money to any
a said, that since he had .had the 110" , clah
° Drorosed to eltange the venue of trial in Ireland.
o cairn OP t'oa ley rec. r,,.. se, he had made several attempts t filedi4 eh tette
which° , What led to the revolutionary riots at Massa.
Inagua' ties of taxation that prevasaar, tag, ;.,. cost us Azaerica ? ,He would tell them—a
was not the best form in which the -I Or .4111.1 '," veaue, They -removed the trial of offenders in Mat-
ta forward. The answer of the .noble lo
e 70,1 troph tiSt‘itS to the mother country,.and the result was the declare-
sold be satisfactory to the country. 11,ttre,'„ Otevelf"letieak ilidepeudenee. Something infinitely worse,
ouse that, instead cif going into a cornltsensf, tfish to
t, was intended'for the Irish. When they (lid bring the
s, they should go into the subject of
ll,tate ')
tdh_e ascrial'l'Ywhot sort of trammed was their guilt or innocence,
observed that the present system oft
man lid'
ut?veys
~e.,rtained? Forsooth, by a majority. of five military
pheld much longer, and no other 01„tacati ej i,Ll,4ed the been two years in the service 4 and have al-
it than by a thorough revision of it. ,v_yr 0-1 i7ll, e full age The chat*. in America was only a
property tax, and.would continue Wu" of (J At 11. fa," tlaee, the trial by jury wee retained (hear) ; while
fell so heavily and concealed the.bene_Pfer Ort, ttvoial..2-ed, Ireland there was a (+tinge of venue, with* total
Id and his request to the. hon. mewl; fa
er la- c,tte.tuiien of trial by jury, (Hear bear.) Was that NO Was
w his motion for the present, till fur
reartls tit? When h''' - ' • the lives and liberties
.' Pe_ , o Ireland
to placing
ned. `rig flat vole or Ireland at the disposal—irresponsible disposal
rose and expressed. his hopes th
at
4e 6 4
,t onensigas or tieutenants, he bad no intention to
barn would not withdraw his motion; it
e.,..,5t,t, the honour of the British army. He knew that a
i from expressing his satistactiou tutat„uto d reit,l.l.lily Bever entered the field—that its officers were as
hether right or wrong it was an i tiotild P., il..y,Z In their private relations as high-minded in their mi-
grievances . prevailed, our ancestors. r
_„ esPj ,otlaeduat; but, still they were human beings, liable-to be
meney until those grievances had oet.ltjeo ,' ',o..o,iced by all the 'hopes and fears which were the ordinag
redressed. It had been said that the IT,iitieli ;.44*1.7!, to'hinnan conduct. Then, think of the situation in
a. for Oldham was tinged with infornoussd
pss,.,-atte,
coti Y viifilki be Plaeaal by the proposed scheme of iron
be a valid objection with a reforrac.t.`,.,ence a ire h..ro. They were young and ardent—say three of them
, was the matter complained of a grifotieop z2uld Tatenants or ensigns—of course anxious for promotion.
`that was the reason for proposing a ',-` t be
.1./
skeay refuse to promote- the views of their commanding
e could not see why property shouldvet, ts r
. ? „ bpi Ai he not regent their doing so by loss of prtnno-
rcely from one person to another, ;
a,",'„oetts I,e ac; ',No, ao,a) He said yes. It/ was part of the preroga-
ixpenses which at present attached to . ".",f tv" 1 . i",` the .Crown to confer promotion and appoint to gover-
:ON and Mr. Geoff s: joined in the urglFrot Ia al
eh, Psa and these tribunals would onsequently be liable to
• Oldham to withdraw his motion, to wit ' 'Pccies of apprehension. They would be subject to the
at length, assented.
ht if
STATE OF ZEELAND.
NV ri) bi
he Committee (if Sapply was then s
n the question that the sum of .g3,,u`,;oes,
ajesty for the support of certain lam' '