The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1843-01-06 00:00:00

—That
.—Very
—He vi

—lf be reads the debates of this council,
which is paid to his feelings, he will
hether Town-clerk's clerk, or

Clerk of Committees.
Mr. HORNBY regretted that this discussion had taken
place, as it had given rise to details which it was injurious
should go forth. He would oppose both the resolution of
the committee and the amendment of Mr. North. The Town-
council had nothing to do with the matter; the Town-clerk
was the legal custodian ; he had duties, and he was bound to
perform them ; and he had told the council that he would
perform them. If the council passed any resolution, they
would take the responsibility upon themselves, which they
had not by act of parliament. He hoped the Paid Officers'
Committee would withdraw the resolution.

Mr. HODGSON hoped the Paid Officers
persevere.

Committee would

Mr. HORNDY rose to order
spoken on the question.
The MAYOR said the Council was in committee

Mr. Hodgson had already

Mr. HODGSON said they ought to go on with the resolu-
tion, for the purpose of letting the community see that the
individuals who now had charge of their affairs, could ad-
minister them properly and legally, without that sort of loose-
ness on the one hand, and of latitudinarianism on the other.
which had formerly been permitted.
Mr. HORNET said he had no intention of saying anything
offensive to any one in the Council, and he hoped be had not
done so. Mr. Hodgson could scarcely have heard the reso-
lution of 1839 read, or he would not have made these re-
marks. There has been no looseness on the part of the
Council. He begged that the resolution might be again read.
The DEPUTY TOWN-CLERK read the resolution passed in
November, 1839, read at the outset of the proceedings by
Mr. Lloyd.

Mr. HORNBY said the Council of that day expressed no
opinion as to their powers, but simply authorized the Town-
clerk to make such arrangements as were necessary, and as
he thought fit. It was necessary that the clerk of commit-
tees should have access to the deeds, and the Town-clerk pro-
posed that now. It thought it exceedingly inconvenient that
members should take every opportunity of making charges
against those who were of a different party. He was sent
there to facilitate the public business, and he was not influ-
enced by the slightest ill feeling to any one, but would act
most cordially with any member whatever for the benefit of
the community, which he conceived to be the object of all.
Mr. HODGSON said the reading of the resolution had but
strengthened the feeling which be entertained. In spite of
the extreme sensitiveness of parties he would show that they
should avoid the laxity which had been shown by those who
had preceeded them.

The MAYOR rose to order, and informed Mr. Hodgson
that he was deviating from the immediate subject before
them. Mr. Hodson persisted. (Loud and repeated cries
of " Chairr,") induced him to bow to the Mayor's decision.
The Deputy TowN-CLERK, at the request of Sir Thomas
Braucker, read the Town-clerk's statement touching the
custody of the deeds, &c. Sir Thomas remarked that they
had already virtually adopted the views expressed in that
statement.

Mr. EARLE said the member for Everton Ward never
arose but he made observations insulting to his political
opponents.

The M AYoF
(Laughter.)
_ Mr. EARLE.

ou will avoid it Mr. Earl,

he does it with a ma

remarks on their conduct, but

mnposity that renders it dOubly

THE MAYOR.-It

Sly desirable that these person-
Serely it Is a stigma on the cha-

racter of this Cour

cannot meet to discuss what

on
who have gone before us, or those whorenecu
areng coeither
come afterthose
us.
Mr. LACE said.it appeared that the resolution of 1839 had
not been carried out. He would propose that the Town-
clerk should be directed to report to the council some plan
for the custody of the muniments.
Mr. AIRIN said the Town-clerk ought to have kept the
council in the strict line of their duty. If they were not
acting legally, he should have discovered it and set them
right.

Mr. EVANS said they were splitting hairs in a manner
which they had not been accustomed to do, before they had
so many legal gentlemen in the council, gentlemen, whose
business it was to multiply questions. (Laughter.)
Much discussion of a desultory character followed. On a
division the numbers were,—
For the resolution

Against it

Majority for the resolution
The following are the names of the members who voted on
each side :

For the resolution.--Messrs. Hodgson, Isaac Holmes,
Blackburn, Copeland, Aikin, Holme, Rae, Royden, J. Law-
rence, Cooper, Birkett, Bushell, Procter, Lloyd, Kilshaw,
Parker, Plumpton, Trotman, Smith, Harbord, Houghton,
Griffith, Freme, Crook, Brantley-Moore, Molyneux, Evans,
and the Mayor.

Against the resolution.—Messrs. R. Houghton (council-
lor,) Thornhill, Preston, North, H. Holmes. Hornby, J.
Holmes, Aspinall, G. H. Lawrence, Lace, Platt, Barclay.
Bulley, Earle, Turner, Holt, Nicol, Moon, and Sir Thomas
Brancker.

The resolution to pay Mr. Tyson £165 2s 4d for extra ser-
vices was then carried without discussion.
Mr. LLOYD introduced the next resolution, namely :
"That on the establishments of the Town-clerk, and Deputy
Town-clerk, and Prosecuting Solicitor being formed, the
clerk to the Clerk of Committees will not be any longer re-
quired, and the Town-clerk is directed to make the arrange-
ments for the change accordingly."
Mr. TURNER said as the committee had not made any re-
port as to Mr. °kill's duties, it was desirable to postpone
this resolution till that was done. Mr. Turner moved an
amendment to that effect.

Mr. LACE seconded the amendment.
Some discussion ensued, in the course of which Mr.
HORNBY observed, that Mr. Abbott's duties had been re-
presented as simply those of an engrossing clerk, which was
not the case, but far otherwise.

The MAYOR observed that: it was stated in the remarks
of the committee that the apportionment of the duties and
salary of the Clerk of Committees had to be considered. It
seemed premature, therefore, to pa'ss such a• resolution as
that which had been read.

After some conversation, Mr. LLOYD, on the part of the
Paid Officers' Committee, consented to postpone the subject.

COMMISSIONERS FOR BIRKENHEAD

Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE brought before the council the
subject of appointing three commissioners under the Local
Act of Ist and 2d Victoria, cap. 33, for amending an act 3rd
William IV. for paving, lighting, watching, cleansing, and
otherwise improving the township or chapelry of Birkenhead,
and for regulating the police thereof. Mr. Lawrence pro-
posed Mr. Parker, Mr. North, and Mr. Wood.
Mr. HORNRY wished to make one observation with regard
to this proposition, and he hoped the present commissioners
would not consider what he was about to say disrespectful to
them. He certainly should think it his duty to oppose the
appointment of the same gentlemen as commissioners, not
on account of not having discharged their duties properly,
but because those gentlemen themselves would agree with
him that they were not upon the most harmonious terms
with their brother commissioners. It was well known there
was an act of parliament to be brought in by the commis-
sioners of Birkenhead, in which the rights of the corporation
of Liverpool were very materially affected ; and he thought
it was desirable that the commissioners appointed by the
corporation should be gentlemen who would be likely to act
harmoniously with their brother commissioners, and, if pos-
sible, save a great deal of those unpleasant discussions which
had
taken place. He thought also that some important
member of the Finance Committee should be one of the
commissioners. It was his intention to propose that Sir
Thomas Brancker be appointed in the place of Mr. Parker,
which he did without meaning the slightest offence to Mr.
Parker. Sir Thomas Brancker, it was well known, had not
Only a great knowledge of the affairs of the corporation, and
of the town ; and it was very proper that some arrangement
might be made which would prevent those enormous expenses
to which the corporation was put in parliamentary business,
which it must be the effort of this council to diminish as
much as possible. He therefore begged to propose the elec-
tion of Sir Thomas Brancker in the place of Mr. Parker.
Sir Titos. ERANCKER said he was much obliged to Mr.
Hornby, but he would prefer not being appointed.
Mr. EIRKETT contended that the Finance Committee
were represented at the Birkenhead board by Mr. Wood.
Mr. Parker was a member of the Watch Committee, and
Mr. North of several others, so that the present selection was
but fair and judicious. With regard to lessening the parlia-
mentary expenses, these three gentlemen, whatever they were
to do, could not lessen them one farthing. He was surprised
to hear such a reason assigned as the want of harmony be_
tween him and the other commissioners as an objection to
Mr. Parker. If the same feeling actuated the majority of
the conservative party, that because a harmonious feeling did
not pervade the whole body, Mr. Ilornby would not at that.
Moment have been a member of the Finance Committee.
Mr. HORNBY said he had been completely misunderstood
by Mr. Birkett.
Mr. EARLE—That is very probable.
The MAYOR—Order ! order !
Mr. lioaNny—l believe friF• Parker will himself admit
that he'has on various occasions/been
Mr. EARLE—In her water. Laughter.)•
The MAYOR—Ore, r I order!
Mr. HogNßY—AlutOSt quarrelling
,w, ilthdothenootthsearynitehme;
bers. When I say " harmoniously.
should not support the rights of the corporation.htis
Mr. PARKER said, the grounds for proposition,
although it came from Mr. Hornby, amounted to ntoothminrg.
more than a want of harmony. He gave
Hornby for the sincerity with which hem
adethe sntaotte
amcetni
ntg;
but at the same time, when he was accused
harmoniously with his brother commissioners, he hoped he
should receive credit for acting conscientiously.
If Mr. Hornby had had a seat at the Birkenhead (Hear.)
board, and

had been told as he (Mr. Parker) had, " We care hot one
farthing for the Corporation of Liverpool—we will go to
parliament and beat you : we will bring up the Cheshire
members and carry the bill in spite of you." Were these
taunts continually thrown in the teeth of the representatives
of the corporation at the board of commissioners end
notice to be taken of them? As a member of the emir
he would never see the corporation insulted either 1
head or anywhere else. It was true, there had
placid sort of representatives for the corporation there here-
tofore; it was true that there was a majority of nineteen

against one; hut he,

Birken-

Mr. Parker,) as apublic man, if he

were appointed to a public duty, he should endeavour con-
scientiously to discharge it. If Mr. Hornby meant to charge
him with• a dereliction of duty, let him boldly bring it for-
ward, and he (Mr. Parker) would meet and disprove it.
Mr. Hornby said he meant no reflection upon Mr. Parker.
Why, what was the motion but a direct attack upon him ?
He knew there was a worthy little alderman not far from him
WAS longing to second Mr. Hornby's motion. He could see
the fidgetty way in which the little gentleman was getting
upon his chair; but he (Mr. Parker) stood there upon prin-
ciple, and he was determined to do his duty in whatever
station he was placed. If the council thought proper to
supersede him, he should feel much obliged, and it would
take a great weight off his mind, for he cared not one farthing
about that or any other appointment ; but when he was
personally attacked he would reply. As he had told Mr.
Jackson, at the Birkenhead meeting last night, he represented
a larger constituency than the whole populatiod of Birken-
head ; and he was not accountable for his conduct to the
council, but to his constituents. _ _ _

Mr. EARLE said, he had the honour of accepting Mr.
Parker's invitation, and be did second the motion. He
thought Mr. Hornby's expression about having an important
member of the council at the Birkenhead board was most
unfortunate, because it was impossible they could have a
more important one than the member who hed just sat down.
In the course of his speech he (Mr. Parker) had proved that
he was an improper person to be a commissioner, because
he was at loggerheads with the gentlemen on the other side
of the water-

Mr. PARKER.—On principle.
Mr. EARLE.—Upon principle ! Why, nobody called the
gentleman's principle in question. They had all too much
of it to suppose that it did not exist in Mr. Parker, for there
was nothing but " principle, principle!" from the beginning
to the end of his speeches. Surely there was some judgment
required from a commissioner; and he (Mr. Earle) looked
upon Sir Thomas Brancker to have as much principle as
Mr. Parker, with a little more judgment.
Mr. NORTH said, of course Mr. Hornby's observations
did not apply to him, for though there had been two meet-
ings since he was appointed, circumstances had prevented
him from attending ?
Mr. itoßNev.—Certainly not.
Mr. l`s, wrv. said if Mr. Hornby would do him the favour
of taking his place as a Birkenhead commissioner, he should
feel obliged to him.
Mr. HORNBY said that whatever the cause might be, there
was no doubt a great deal of hostility against Mr. Parker.
He could only report, that he meant nothing disrespectful
against Mr. Parker in the present motion.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES said Mr. Parker had succeeded him
as a commissioner of Birkenhead, and for the attention he
had devoted to the interests of the corporation there, he was
deserving of the thanks of the council. All the time he (Mr.
Holmes) had acted with the Birkenhead commissioners, he
had found them the most gentlemanly of any individuals he
had ever acted with. With regard to the chairman a more
perfect gentleman, or one who conducted himself with more
propriety, he (Mr. Holmes) had never seen in any chair than
Mr. Case. As to what Mr. Birkett had said about indi-
viduals not acting harmoniously, it was well kncevn that it
had been said he (Mr: Holmes) ought to be left out of a cer-
tain committee on that account. He called it vanity and
presumption in any man . _

The MAYOR called Mr. Holmes to order: such allusions
were totally unnecessary.
Mr, BIRKETT inquired whether Mr. Holmes was referring
to him? .

Mr. HOLMES.—No. He hoped Mr. Hornby would not
persevere in the motion.
Mr. HORNBY said he had done what he considered his
duty, but he was willing to withdraw the motion.
Mr. HODGSON contended that the grounds on which the
council were asked to supersede Mr. Parker were insuffi-
cient ; but at the same time the proposition had been made
in a fair and manly way.

Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE said he felt confidence in Mr
Parker.

Mr. PLATT having been a former commissioner of Birken-
head, could say that he had never met with gentlemen who were
more ready than Mr. Jackson and the chief commissioners
to attend, not only to the public interest on that side of the
water, but their own. (Loud laughter.)
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE repeated that he had perfect con-
fidence in Mr. Parker. He went there to represent the cor-
poration, and he had expressed strong opinions upon the
late boats. That was no corporate question ; but the fact
was, that on the other side there was a diversity of opinion
upon it, but nothing had occurred to disqualify Mr. Parker—
far from it.

The amendment was then withdrawn, and the original
motion was carried.

MRS. ANN MOLYNEUX'S CHARITY

The Mayor was appointed a trustee under the Local Act
of 9th George IV. for enabling the trustees under Mrs. Ann
Molyneux's Charity in Liverpool to grant building leases,
and for better vesting estates in them, for confirming ex-
changes, and other purposes, for the benefit of the said
charity.

ST. JAMES'S CEMETRY

Sir Thomas Brancker, Mr. Thornhill, and Mr. Smith
were appointed trustees under the Local Act of 7th George IV
for establishing St. James's Cemetry.