The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-07-12 00:00:00

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tts ere
stared, nay frowned, upon public men, merely because tikeY
public men of whose actions they were jealous. Who then tOO.lO
be insane enough to brave public opinion—to injure hi
honour ? Who would be regardless enough of both ? Iv 'lt°
would endanger his personal safety—for who would venture
guard him against impeachment—to appoint to any of to
situations any persons from private friendship, personal coon.ce.)
tion, or indee'd any motive but fitness for the office ? (Cheeihsii
Who, he asked, would dare to do this ? He would petit to
noble and learned friend whether it was not likely that in
town in which those judges resided there was not likely to
noblell
newspaper? (A laugh.) Noble lords might laugh, and ,
and learned lords might laugh at the mention of a newspaperhls
he never yet in the course of his experivce saw a judge
never
did not laugh when a newspaper was inefftioned, but he
knew one of those learned personages who was willing to ex-
yet,,
pose himself to the censures of the press. (Laughter.) S lowna„
as there existed a judge and a watchful press, he believed iut
impossible that that judge would go wilfully wrong ni s e,n d
manner as judges had done some 150 years a,go, when they ao„,
so dreadfully stained the ermine. lie had already stated the
grounds upon which he thought it desirable to make these Vp'e
pointments. The main argument being that it was desira
that all classes should be able to obtain cheap justice at all tint
every
Again, with respect to patronage, he had framed the bill for t 7..
advantage of others and not of himself. The noble lord (14. n,,,
pat was then on the woolsack, and it was proposed to
the ronage in the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the o:11e1
house. He did not feel that he ought to thank the house 1.l0!
the manner in which he was treated on that occasion, but
t"Ru,
would say no more upon it as they at length extendeda l't
praise to him, although with a stingy hand; he would not there,
fore find fault. But he thought he had a right to find fault tot"
nob:e lords when they misstated facts. There surely was n`,i
occasion for that. (Loud laughter.) The noble and Tearne;,,
lord (Lyndhurst) might have got into the regions of faacY
order to enliven a dull subject, but then he ought to have Orrid
fined himself to pure fiction, and not have misquoted his (1)00
Brougham's) statements. All the noble and learned lord's f a
(such as they were) made for his own side of the question, I
against his Lord( Brougham's,) at last he got into a seri,es.llld
ef
inaccuracies which would have done honour to the late (-
Justice of the Common Pleas. (Laughter.)
Lord WYNFORD rose amidst loud cries of 'or der, order-
He was determined not to be turned into ridicule by any no
lord.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought the noble lord ey.treu;eil,Y,i
out of order in his interruption. It had been well observed "
Dean SwWYift, that— ea
LordWYNFORD again rose, amidst loud cries of order, a 1,
insisted upon having the 15th Order of the House read, aft%
which he would appeal to any noble lord whether the noble alt.,
learned lord ought to proceed in the course he was then Pais
ing—(laughter.)
The Clerk then read the 15th Order, for the regulation of tiled
basiness and debates of that, House, in which it was o,''
"That, for the honour of the house, no noble lord in the cou'
of debate was to use any expression which was offensive, sharl.l;
or taxing; and, on the other hand, where it appeared no ofleavid
was meant, no offence should be taken ; but where it was ,
offence was meant, the house would visit it with its severest Oa
sure."—(The reading of this order was received with contieue't
laughter.)
Ihe Lorin CHANCELLOR begged to assnre their lorash,,ig
that he would endeavour to comply with the first part of
order; that of not Saying any thing that, according to
dern times, which differed from the former, could be
sidered offensive, sharp, or taxing—(laughter) ; and he trns,ol
the noble and learned lord would conform to the sec".co
part of the rule, and not take any thing ill or, offer"„hi
Which was not so meant—(loud laughter). Why On(
the noble and learned hard talk of- the appoinemea'
four judges, and the expense of £150,000. In reconilue,"ey
ing these judges to receive £1,500 a year, he thought that
would be under rather than overpaid; and if these were 'l;Jb';,
number, the whole expense would not amount to more tba"?_.„;
tween £50,000 and £60,000 a year. He would not confine a'7,5
self to his present statements, but would refer to the olligo'°,o
which he delivered in 1826 on Lord Althorp's Motion. 7,1" e
talked of vesting the patronage in the Lord Lieutenants-0"o
would have it placed in the Crown—some would give it to °°s,
quarter, and some to another' but the general impression t of
that it ought to be vested in the executive government, vvitit:.ea
course, all requisite responsibility annexed. What he des"' 0,
was, to give to the King's subjects the blessings of cheap g.,5
vernment and cheap law. His noble and learned friend 'lc,
anxious to make it appear that he was connected with no patio
and he told their lordships that he had considered it righl,he
speak early in the debate, as a judge should not go int°,:ff
contentious parts of it, but only, as it were, to proceed eoL.,#
and calmly along in smooth waters. (Hear, hear.) But %a
his noble and learned friend came to reconcile this profess'co
with the active means and powerful partizanship he had sl°,l,
himself, and upon every occasion since the bill was introduceof
he could not for an instant imagine. Most certainly it was °re
compatible with hislisual calmness in his study, or in the Mt°,
sacred places which he attended in his meditative hours, ":"„'",t
he should have consulted all the books that could bear ag,"'d
this bill, whether anonymous or otherwise, and stored his hat,
with all the taunts that could be made use ofi to deride it. Av."„"cl,
ever way he looked at the course pursued by his noble fr;eito
he must say that his noble and learned friend took all cry
advantage which his position gave him as a debater to de di
the measure now under their lordships' consideration ; th°°,7er
all he had said on the present occasion was covered e:e.,
with a purely legislative, and more purely judicial charaoisi
than he had displayed a year and a half ago, when another ce,J,
important, though not judicial question, was brought fortokiii,
The learned lord then went into a general defence of the via
and dwelt much on the expenses attending suits in the sup 4)-
courts. "My lords, (continued the noble and learned °,hat
I will not, until you yourselves persuade me of it, believe
all
you intend to throw out this bill. I hear strange rumours 0' of
kinds, in all quarters. Whispers fill the air. Every specie,sce
tale is borne on the winds. Nevertheless, I will not belietiv
them until you, my lords, convince me, and even you can
convince me by coming to a vote to refuse ,to pass this
My lords, lam ,not here to flatter you. It does not benie
me. I neither give nor take flattery. I will tell your lords,le
then the plain truth, which, be it as it may the less platy:li
is at all events the fairer and the more honest course. I
tell you plainly that, if your lordships throw out this bill, it `,„;
in no way relax any efforts of mine in favour of law refor'"or ,
and whoever expects by it to damp or discourage me Iron:01'0e
secuting such measures as 1 think necessary to the safety 0!.
country, the honour of Parliament, and the good of the 13'31i'o.
subjects, reckons without his host, and in me mistakes his 'aims
(Cheers.) But to say that I should feel no mortification, 'C'et,
I should be in no sense discouraged, that I should not to a h 1
Lain extent despair, would be affecting a state of mind Avllice
could not feel ; for undoubtedly when I first took the °,ice
which I have the honour to hold, my great_ nd primary 01°,0
was that I might have the means of using the official infl"edlt
of my station to accomplish effectual and adequate,thoro
cautious, safe, and judicious measures of law reform. ((Alec'' d
Therefore, although, I shall continue to discharge my dutY,,it be
to propound measures,. of reform, they then, of course, vci ioto
moderate—they then will be inadequate, and applying to P"o4e
'
of interior importance • because it would be useless to prqdat
what experience would have shown to be impracticable., ;to
such measures as there is a chance of getting your lordsht
accede to I will propound. Within those limits 1 shall sti
ready, although it be but half an inch of the way, to accoraliioo
your lordships. But, my lords, lam not the only persou
expectations will be disappointed by the rejection of this l'dam"
(Hear, hear.) It may be of little moment Whether you vv.:.
my hopes, and dash the cup from illy lips. But your coa
will be disappointed. I perceive that word had exciteda
as I was certain it would, amongst a number of noble lor oil"
se
the most safe, and prudent, and dignified course that this
could possibly take would be to disregard all such cons' are
tions, and not to care whether the hopes of your countlY
)/
damped or no. (Cries of " No, no," from the oppositioa:iret
Well, then, my lords it is untrue—you do care—you do rerileit
to damp the hopes or your country—you do lament any step
would frusti ate the expectations of the people. I heartiliiiod
joice at it, and, as I am confident that that is the frame of "'toe
in which your lordships now are, I am bound, on the intiretnos'
which your lordships rave just conveyed to me, to exPec istice
you will not throw out a bill which brings home cheap ti,!i
to every man's door, and which, if you do-reject,- you to
et
country that, through this channel at least—and no ot',Pso,
pointed out—through this channel the hopes and expectatio
the country are not to be realised. (Cheers.)
The house then divided, when the numbers appeared --:9
Present Prox,'
For the original question Bl 41
Against it Bl 5317
the
Majority for rejecting the word "now"
When these numbers were announced several peers lel"r; ill
house, but it appeared that a second division was necess'tgsi':
order finally to decide the question. The gallery WI,
cleared, and, upon the amendment of LordWharneli'oe&l,
the words "this day six months" be inserted, the house
divided, when the numbers, independent of proxies, (''s
were not counted this time,) appeared—
For the amendment 73
Against it 6B
Final majority against the bill —5 ,Pc
In the minority were included, it was said, the ot"l3,,tef
bishops who happened to be in the house, the rev. Pre ove,,
Exeter having quitted immediately the first division waseol
On the other hand the majority would. have been increni!„,cll„,
three, had it not been that peers to that number only r`o c0.,"1
the house after the question had been put, and they werrescw
sequently obliged to remit their votes, not having been ,1).
when the motion upon which the house divided was real'
The house then adjourned at Two .o'clock. •

• -
HOUSE OF COMMONS, TolgeoAx,, ..I.tmv ,clorci:1;
The SPEAKER took the chair at a quarter-past Twelve °I, 0
There was a remarkably full attendance of members
side 'of the house. „4?
COMMUTATION OF TITHES (ENGLAND)• „110-:r
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that to-
,1,4 v
resolve into a CoMmittee on the Tithes Comunitatioo k
Ottot'
land) Bill.
t.
Mr. BARING observed that, as there was so much iriq'fli, it
business for determination in the present session, iti.etberl:re
perhaps, save time if he were to ask the noble to %be*
was his intention merely to state his views on the questio;esel
the house, and then postpone the matter until the next lit
or to pass auy part of the Bill in the present session. „rese.di
The Cu ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that hi!,ris,i'ri;
object was to omit every part of the proposed, nieodt6tbe'itte
rendered,compu•lsory the commutation of tithes. Irher '`oc
place, the Bib would permit parties to contract toge'" foor
out restriction; and this part he intended to pursde• It slO
other portion of the Bill there was greater objecti"l't'ioa, et`'
the desire of the government to give general satisfac, elo 0,10,
from what lie hail heard he did not think that the will, blip
sure was likely to attain that object. (Hear.) l'e'etle.,l4
wish, therefore, to persevere in that part which ,w3s4
objected to; and he therefore wished to omit all tree,
after the 12th clause, with the exception of two or th
were not so material. esci
The order was then read and carried. The house r
into Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the ExenEQuEli handed to ~ Lae
Cliair
various amendments, which, however, were not read.i.
_or
A Member complained that they were not deseribeve bled:
The CHANCELLOR of the ExeneQuna reminded °Joe ,ao'
able member that the Bill was merely going thron,glitissiM
mittee pro firma, with the nudeistanding that'uo dig rteJLOO
to take place. AR he asked was, to have the bid rePt° it 0'
the alterations he wished to make in it, in order tb'
be printed, and afterwards subjected to discussion. u , to
b 9 ~ijV
Hons resumed, report brought up, bill ordere.,
printed,e and to be taken into 'further considerati°'
tb
it,
se'nnight.
LETTERS PATENT. into co' ,
On the motion of Mr. Gonsow, the house went ill poi,
tee on the Letters Patent Bill. Jet
Mr. JERVIS proposed the postponement of the e°°tiiP° e
of that part of the bill which contained the definitioo °
e
ir
tti
and moved an amendment accordingly. g
Mr. Li,ovn, as a member of the Committee, w°l-1
amendment his most decided opposition. bt
The house then resumed, 'and the report was brougloW•
ordered to be taken into further consideration to-11101
44 01'
SABBATH OBSERVANCE.
Mr. PETER presented two petitions for the
better
of the Sabath, and then moved the order of th.e_
lisiteor,,i:j
'.'
of
second readingof the bill for the better observan(_eiooo
Laili. The object of the present measure was t°
/4,

1
' 'my 12, 1833,

amend the provisions of those laws, and bring them within the
Compass of a single statute. It was classed under four heads—
oune relating to shipping and labour, which laws it proposed to
nu PP/t entirely ; another to houses of entertainment, which,
;tterut certain restrictions, were allowed to be kept open ;
kr,r!other to Sunday travelling ; and the last to Sunday trading.
Principle of the bill did very little more than modify and
mitigate the statutes as they now existed, to suit the times in
which we lived. It relieved the statute book from no fewer
than seventeen statutes, and for them substituted one. It was
!i
eta measure which drew invidious distinctions, or was partial
!t its operation; it affected the rich equally with the poor, the
betel-keeper with the pothouse-keeper. ft did not interfere
with the innocent pastimes of individuals. It was not a bill for
coercion or intolerance; it was not to compel religion, but to
enable persons to be religious if they thought proper. It was
nut a perfect bill; but its imperfections could be remedied in
committee and he hoped the house would now permit the
iecond_ rea'ding.—( Hear.)
„Mr. SLANEY seconded the motion. He did not approve of
all the details of the Bill, but relieving the statute-book of 17
e!.1.8 statutes, many of which were partial, and in many respects
Objectionable and.reducing their useful enactments into one
measure was, together with' many provisions of the Bill, that
th"mil did the hon. member credit. No doubt, in Committee,
e Bill could be materially improved.
Mr. WARBURTON said there was one part of the Bill which
particularly.
. induced him to support the second reading,' and
it had
Was the extensive repeal of such a number of statutes. If
nad no other object than that repeal, and the re-enactment of
the least objectionable clauses in those Acts, he could not op-
Pose its going into Committee, but he found a number of novel-
ties introduced. He found that mackarel was not to be allowed
to, be sold on the Sunday, so that the fishermen must keep the
:I.elvish. fast on the Saturday, or throw away the- fish caught on
otat day. If the observance of the Sabbath were to be so strictly
enforced, the law would soon be a dead letter, and so far from
tending to enforce the proper observance of the Sabbath, it
would throw an air of ridicule over that sacred day. There
must he a degree of forbearance respecting the habits of the
People, and any law tying the people up more strictly than at
Present:
a would be sure of being a dead letter. He contended.
'4it would interfere materially with the pastimes of the peo-
sl;le.t, stiaT; e, however was incline, not to stop the Bill in its pre-
, although he had great doubts whether the House
Ind give it that attentive consideration which would justify
Sir ANDREW A
,11 passing it this Session.
, GNEW addressed the house, but was interrupted
by the Speaker, who reminded the house that the hour of ad-
-Irnment having come, further proceedings at present woulde
useless. The Speaker then quitted the chair.
R yhe FIVE O'CLOCK SITTING.
SPEAKER went to the llouse of Lords, to hear the
u}s.l Assent iven by Commission to several public and pri-
vate Bills. g
A message from the Lords desired a conference upon the sub-
jectk of the East India resolutions, which was agreed to ; and
shortly afterwards the Chancellor of the Exchequer appeared
L the bar, and stated that their lordships had taken into.consi-
oeretion the resolutions of the Commons, and had agreed to
the sa • me without any alterations.
PMr. CuitAa FERGUSSON moved, "That a humble address be
ri,i.sented to his Majesty, praying that he would be graciously
ireased not to recognise, or in any way give the sanction of his
Government to the present political state and condition of Po-
TM, the same having been brought about in violation of the
lifat37 of Vienna, to which Great Britain was a party."
5,.11% T. Arrwoon seconded the motion. •
for a division the numbers were—For the original motion, 95.);
'r,„lhe previous question, 177 ; majority against the motion, 8—
t tar. IL L. BULWER moved for papers connected with Lord
IRIIIOII aS special mission to Russia, and which relate to the
of Germany and the enslavement of Poland. •
Lord
PALMERSTON said that the papers moved for by the
"„°n, • member related as much to Germany as to Poland, and the
'lelord was understood to say that he objected to their pro-
duction,th HUME thought the noble lord would be oblitsed to produce
em before he obtained the money which was topdefray the ex-
Pease of the embassy.
tLord PALMERSTON. said he knew of no instance in which the
o'4, use had required, before it paid the expenses of an embassy,
ue Placed in possession of the whole of the negotiations.
M.
HUME said he had a ei,o right to ask what the business was
n which•the public money had been expended.
nation RoßtrisoN hoped that the house would require an expla-
before it paid the money for the expenses.
After a few words from Mr. TENNYSON,
BULWER consented to withdraw his motion.
LOCAL COURTS' BILL.
Thl‘lr O'CONNELL gave notice that on Thursday next he should
i''„eve a resolution to the effect that it was the duty of the house
Oftake measures to establish local courts for the administration
,'"
s' Justice throughout the country.
Colonel PERCEVAL moved to reduce the rate of interest in
Ireland from 6 to 5 per cent., but,
After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON and other hon.
reelnbers, he withdrew the motion.
CALTHORPE-STREET INQUIRY.
f The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER postponed his motion
or the appointment of a Committee of Inquiry into the conduct
Of the Police in Calthorpe-street, until Thursday next.
STEUART obtained leave to bring in a bill "
rocurators or Solicitors before the Inferior Courts' tinScot-
bad, or the partners of any such persons, who shall hereafter
e chosen chief magistrates in any burgh or town in Scotland,
to act as Justices of the Peace in the counties in which such
ellief magisates ma be ex (Sick) in th. Commission of Peace."
Tho housetr then adjourned at three o'e clock.